# Dissuade me to get a Rolleiflex



## Grumbaki (Apr 4, 2014)

Went to my usual shop today for some CF cards.

Since my last visit a Rolleiflex popped up in their Vintage section. 2.8F, visually and optically mint. Asking price of 2300 USD (in local currency). Can probably be bargained down quite a bit (around 10% would be a reasonnable aime just for principles).

Just one comment....now THAT is a viewfinder!!! Why the hell does no company keep making this kind of camera??? The form factor is truly excellent!

I was so troubled that I forgot to ask for the accessories accompanying it and got the wrong serial number (taking lens not camera). I was in a rush to get my bank card away.

Anyone to dissuade me? Or will there be some GAS propaganda?


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## tolusina (Apr 4, 2014)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0&_nkw=Rolleiflex&_sacat=0&_from=R40


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## Grumbaki (Apr 4, 2014)

tolusina said:


> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0&_nkw=Rolleiflex&_sacat=0&_from=R40



Thanks but it's a bit "apple and oranges". Outside of cosmetics, 2.8F with Planar (models 1 to 3) are the pinacle of the form factor. Plus you add the condition (we are talking 40 to 50 years old stuff here) and the choice is much narrower adn the prices much higher (I guess that was your point?).

Example: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Rolleiflex&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XRolleiflex+2.8F&_nkw=Rolleiflex+2.8F&_sacat=0


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## Sporgon (Apr 4, 2014)

Bet you never use it


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## Grumbaki (Apr 4, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0&_nkw=Rolleiflex&_sacat=0&_from=R40
> ...



Because this is not a Canon item I'll give some context: 2.8F Planar in B condition go for 1.6k+, A is generally between 2.2 and 2.5K, truly mint or special serial numbers go for 3K+. Yeah I know I can get a Lubitel replica for 50$ to satisfy my point about the form factor...but that's kinda not the point. Been there done that. Lubitels are pedal cars where Rollei's are Rolls Royce.



Sporgon said:


> Bet you never use it


I have shoot roughly 50 rolls on a Lubi replica. But the things is so random and poorly manufactured that this is just for fun. But the way to shoot is addictive.


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## tolusina (Apr 4, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> ....Thanks but it's a bit "apple and oranges". ........(I guess that was your point?)....


 
My only point was to point out the wide price range for Rolleis.
---
I'd love to have my Grandfather's Rollei, both as a photography relic and as a family heirloom. Grew up near Grandma & Grandpa's place, clearly recall his darkroom, also recall never learning anything about photography from him, I had no interest back then. I do think I caught a spark that smouldered a few decades. His photos have become family treasures, there's one on my mantle, a couple on my phone.
Otherwise, I've no interest in any other Rollei.
If Cousin Ted were to send Grandpa's Rollei my way, I'd probably run a roll through it just to do it, after that, it'd sit on display on the mantle with Dad's AE-1 and Grandpa's self portrait. For that sort of use, the price you found is way high for my tastes.

You obviously have different interests, maybe you'll load it and work it, maybe you collect pristine artifacts. If so, the price you've found seems reasonable. All good.

Conversely, you might be a more casual sort of collector where the object itself and what it represents is most important to you, it's condition and serviceability less so. If that is the case, I thought the prices shown on the ebay link might be of interest.

Absolutely nothing else was expressed or implied by my post above, I hope no offense was taken.
I can barely make my own value judgements sometimes, I'm sure not qualified to judge your values.




.


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## Sporgon (Apr 4, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Bet you never use it
> ...



You did say 'dissuade me' !

~My Grandfather used a Rolleiflex in the '30s and '40s, a 'Standard' I think, and I still have the remarkable pictures that he took in the English Lake District - among others - on colour transparency. Very rare in 1936.

Mint f2.8 versions do seem to go for very high prices. If it's your thing; great. Personally I miss film like a hole in the head.


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## Don Haines (Apr 4, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> Grumbaki said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...


My Rolle has been sitting on a shelf gathering dust for at least 10 years...


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## Grumbaki (Apr 4, 2014)

@Tolusina: No worries. It's true that if I hadn't make my homework, Rolleis are a field for rip off due to the wide range of price. Sweet story about the grandpa!

@Sporgon: Yeah and I still say it because that's not really a useful expense but, as I can afford it, I struggle with a bad GAS.

@Don: Nice attempt. Time is actually my biggest constraint. Need to work quite a few hours to afford that beauty...


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## unfocused (Apr 6, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> Personally I miss film like a hole in the head.



My sentiments exactly. I find that it's much easier to be nostalgic about an era if you didn't actually have to live through it.


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## Sporgon (Apr 6, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I miss film like a hole in the head.
> ...


 ;D

Perhaps, but I still _love _ steam locomotives ! 

(But actually I didn't really live through that era !)


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## Vivid Color (Apr 6, 2014)

Dear Grumbaki: You've not really said why you might want this camera, but you did ask us to dissuade you. 

Since I don't know why you want the camera or what you want to do with it, I'll just ask you: What else could you do with $2300? 

I can think of a lot of things but only you can say whether that $2300 is better spent on something else. 

Another way to think about it is: What aren't you going to be able to do if you spend $2300 on this particular camera?

Hope this helps!

Vivid


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## Grumbaki (Apr 7, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> Dear Grumbaki: You've not really said why you might want this camera, but you did ask us to dissuade you.
> 
> Since I don't know why you want the camera or what you want to do with it, I'll just ask you: What else could you do with $2300?
> 
> Another way to think about it is: What aren't you going to be able to do if you spend $2300 on this particular camera?



Dear Vivid, your first question is one of the good point in the con side. That amount can be spend on a trip with my modern gear. I'm Lucky (and working my ass off) enough so that the second one is not that relevant. But yeah, 2300 could be used up for something else...but not in the bank.

As to the why this camera:
- I really love the "whole format", the "belly shooting".
- Film can be a pain but the restraint it imposes usually make me a better photographer. I think I already posted about my outings with a 1Gb CF (13 exposures on a 5d3 shooting full raw) and the lcd blackened out to emulate the case.
- Native Square. Personnal taste for compositon.
- It's not like there is an option for medium format shooting around 2k USD. Replicas are generally toys in term of output. This one (and the Hassels like 500C I had the chance to try out...but Im more a TLR guy) have very good outputs even in our digital area. Those modern medium format are, to my knowledge, the only option for belly shooting and they are around what? 10K?
- Except if I truly mishandle it, there is little chance of loosing much value if I purchase smartly. This is not an investment but not a perishable item like our dslr.
- Pure admiration for engineering/craftmanship. That point is kinda moot but that stuff is a piece of beauty like watches or old cars can be. I mean... hand polished lenses...!
- Ice breaker. That's mentionned in every review and I could notice it with the Hasselblad. Poeple are weary of DSLR but they are drawn to those pieces of curio or nostalgia. (except the unavoidable grumpy photog that think you should leave it in a museum).

Writing all those explanations doesnt really help as your point and the fact that I don't have much time to shoot are the only 2 points on the con side.

Any debunking of my pros? 

(I know this is a weird GAS thread...thanks for the answers!)


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## Hillsilly (Apr 14, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> - I really love the "whole format", the "belly shooting".


Just pick up a nice Mamiya RB67 or RZ67. A fraction of the cost, and you can even buy new / near new lenses and accessories. Much more functional and practical. You can even add a medium format digital back to them and have the best of both worlds.


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## Rudeofus (Apr 14, 2014)

If you enjoy TLRs and their way of shooting, by all means go for it. Since US$ 2k is a lot of money and can get you a wide range of very decent analog gear, I recommend you do some price shopping (look at keh and adorama), and maybe investigate the merits of possible alternatives, just to be sure.

Once you make the Lubitel-->Rollei upgrade, you may need some extra things that help you get optimal results: a decent exposure meter, a sturdy tripod and cable release, and ideally some equipment for processing exposed films yourself. Maybe check out whether there is a dark room available nearby wherever you live.

Even if some people here seem to hate film, the results will speak for themselves.


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## agierke (Apr 14, 2014)

i sorta get it. this past winter i refurbed a polaroid 180 so that i can shoot with it for fun. for me, polaroid pack film captures the "magical" experience of film photography without the hassles of roll film. 

i also picked up a mint condition Kodak Stereo camera and a vintage 1904 stereo viewer this past winter. ran a test roll through it and printed up some test prints for viewing. had tons of fun doing it but still need to tweak the process a bit to refine the results.

i lived through the film days and understand the tedium, cost, and anxiety over potentially screwing up an irreplaceable photo moment....but there is something that goes a bit beyond nostalgia when using vintage gear. i simply love photography, in all its forms, and using different processes is a way to further enjoy photographing as it changes the experience slightly. 

changing the way i think, the way i work, and the way i see are all ways of refreshing photography for me. i find quite a bit of tedium in digital photography through my jobs so revisiting historical tools and techniques is somewhat of a release. i find it is a similar experience to using a particular lens alot and getting sick of it, then buying a new lens and falling in love with how it changes the way you see things.

would i spend 2300.00 on a rollie? no. but i cant really judge the OP since every time i consider selling my Hassi i come up with enough reason not to do it.


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## drolo61 (Apr 14, 2014)

I do have a near mint Rolleiflex 6008i with some accessoires. I love the beast, but have not used it for a long time. I can send pictures if you are interested. Where are you based?


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## sootzzs (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Grumbaki,

My guess is that answers to your question will change accordingly to the forum it is posted on. Try to write the same question on APUG or Manual photography forums and you will probably buy two of these. People here are more into practical photography and 2300$ could buy some nice new and shiny lens with a red ring around it. And they will be as right as you'll be if you buy the Flex. The question is what will bring YOU more joy??? Only you can answer it. 

I'm kinda in the same pot (well more or less. My budget is a bit more modest, like Lubitel modest). I am new to any kind of photography (2 years with my 60D). In recent months I've started to have interest in vintage cameras and film photography. Why? No idea. I'm a child of the digital era so no "nostalgic GAS" here. It started with buying some vintage manual M42 glass to save some money. One of them came with a battered, broken light meter, Spotmatic SPII attached to. I thought: "why not to run a film through it and see how was it done in the old times. Moreover, it is the real Full Frame". Long story short, now I have about 10 different vintage cameras and I stopped counting the lenses. I developed my first B&W film last week and will try to digitize it soon, I am in the middle of my first cheap medium format film shot on my dirt cheap 1950 Agfa IsolaII and looking into buying Kiev-60TTL. Of-course I could have spent this money on my digital stuff, but would I enjoy the same? Will every good picture feel as special as the ones I get from time to time on film? So again, it is a VERY subjective question. 

On the more technical note: I'm sure that shooting limited number of frames with film camera, without the possibility to see and correct on the spot the frame and without light meter most of the times (except my eyes ofcourse), already made me a better photographer even with my digital equipment. 

PS.: As a side question: except of the obvious advantage of the Medium Format resolution (is it really equivalent to 60 Mega pixel picture?) is there any advantage to the film (35mm or other) over a full frame DSLR (which I can't compare to)?


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## Snodge (Apr 14, 2014)

Why don't you have a look for a Yashicamat 124G instead of the Rolleiflex? Pretty much the same sort of spec and quality, but a whole lot cheaper. If you don't need a TLR, have a look for a decent folder - Agfa Isolette, Franka Solida, Baldix, or like the one I got last week, a Kershaw 450, which only cost me £40


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## Rudeofus (Apr 14, 2014)

sootzzs said:


> PS.: As a side question: except of the obvious advantage of the Medium Format resolution (is it really equivalent to 60 Mega pixel picture?) is there any advantage to the film (35mm or other) over a full frame DSLR (which I can't compare to)?


With a medium format camera you will quit counting megapixels very quickly. Assuming you buy a decent piece of equipment and use modern film and developers, you will have all the resolution you'll ever need, period.

What you will notice quickly once you get your analog process dialed in is that these films bring an incredible tonality and color palette out of the box. You think of the mood you want to create, pick the proper film and the result will look just right. In theory you could do all this in digital, but given the dreadful digital B&W images posted by self proclaimed professional photographers here in this forum, it seems to be a lot more difficult than it looks at the first glance, sometimes more options don't lead to better results.


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## Drizzt321 (Apr 14, 2014)

Hillsilly said:


> Grumbaki said:
> 
> 
> > - I really love the "whole format", the "belly shooting".
> ...



While I have an RB67, and just got a 140mm Macro off of ebay, I wouldn't exactly say it's quite the same style. Not having used a Rollei, it still strikes me as, with a good shoulder strap, much easier to hold & shoot than an RB/RZ. And much lighter, and much quicker shutter response without the huge mirror having to fly up out of the way. Not that I'll get rid of my RB67 you understand...


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## dickgrafixstop (Apr 15, 2014)

Shoot with a tlr Rollei for
Pure pleasure of using the basics - no auto anything and nothing
To blame but your technique. You'll note that the prices have held value
Far better than other med format gear - must be a reason!


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## TAF (Apr 15, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> Went to my usual shop today for some CF cards.
> 
> Since my last visit a Rolleiflex popped up in their Vintage section. 2.8F, visually and optically mint. Asking price of 2300 USD (in local currency). Can probably be bargained down quite a bit (around 10% would be a reasonnable aime just for principles).
> 
> ...




Dissuade? Hardly.

You must answer only one question - will you get $2300 worth of enjoyment out of it, instead of some other form of enjoyment (a new lens for your Canon perhaps). If the answer is yes, read on...

OK, I have two 2.8E's, which I use fairly regularly. In the old days I would load one with color and one with B+W to cover both bases. These days, I stick with B+W, and only thus only carry one at a time.

One word of advice (keeping in mind the camera is at least 25 years old, and more likely closer to 40); if it comes with an original leather neck strap, DO NOT use it. Even if it looks perfect, it is likely there is dry rot internal to the leather, and when you least expect it, it will break. The thin straps are awful anyway, but by now they are dangerous to your gear. It's easy enough to adapt a modern strap to the camera to not make it worth the risk.

Accessories - You'll want the lens hood. The 2.8F will use Bay III components, and there are plenty of filters and such out there at very reasonable prices. I'd suggest the panoramic adapter (it goes between the camera and tripod, has a built in level, and has indexing steps so you get perfectly spaced pictures...useful on other cameras too ), and if you're into stereo, there is a stereo device that the camera attaches to, and you shoot one shot, then slide the camera over to the other side and get a perfectly spaced second shot. Also potentially useful for other cameras.

I keep hoping that someone will come out with a digital back. The back is removable from virtually all Rollei TLR's so you can use a sheet film adapter, so making a replaceable digital back would be "easy" (once they get those 6x6 cm sensors out at reasonable prices).

I have to admit, I keep looking at a 'droid and thinking it would make a nice viewfinder for the top of my 5D3 so I could belly shoot in digital...


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## Hillsilly (Apr 15, 2014)

Drizzt321 said:


> While I have an RB67, and just got a 140mm Macro off of ebay, I wouldn't exactly say it's quite the same style. Not having used a Rollei, it still strikes me as, with a good shoulder strap, much easier to hold & shoot than an RB/RZ. And much lighter, and much quicker shutter response without the huge mirror having to fly up out of the way. Not that I'll get rid of my RB67 you understand...


True - the RB67's are a little awkward to use. Its just a fraction too heavy. After I purchased a Mamiya 6, my RB67 just started gathering dust and I ended up selling it about 18 months ago. The 6 is a great camera, but sadly lacks the "belly shooting" capabilities that the OP seeks.



sootzzs said:


> PS.: As a side question: except of the obvious advantage of the Medium Format resolution (is it really equivalent to 60 Mega pixel picture?) is there any advantage to the film (35mm or other) over a full frame DSLR (which I can't compare to)?


Discussing advantages / disadvantaged of film is difficult. Its like arguing the benefits of oil paints vs watercolours vs doing pottery. Its just a different creative process, and one isn't necessarily better than another. I shoot a lot of film because I like the results I'm currently getting with films like Portra 400. I also have a darkroom set up and occasionally enjoy the mad scientist side, mixing chemicals, and making prints. But, if you were looking at technical specs, measuring things in megapixels, or like convenience, I find it hard to think of an advantage to film.


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## jrista (Apr 15, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Grumbaki said:
> ...



You should sell it! You could make anywhere from $300 to $3000!


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## funkboy (Apr 15, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> Perhaps, but I still _love _ steam locomotives !



Then you'll _love_ this:







Norfolk & Western J 611 is a J-class locomotive built in 1950 in the town where my family has lived for 4 generations. She is the ultimate development of the steam locomotive, having a cruising speed of 110mph with 15 passenger cars. She is also breathtakingly beautiful, the streamlining being part of the key to her speed.

She'd been sitting the in the VA transportation museum since 1995, but a group of concerned citizens have pulled together the money to have her restored to operating condition, starting this month. If all goes according to plan she'll be making the rounds around the eastern USA as part of N&W's 21st century steam program sometime in 2015.


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## funkboy (Apr 15, 2014)

agierke said:


> this past winter i refurbed a polaroid 180 so that i can shoot with it for fun. for me, polaroid pack film captures the "magical" experience of film photography without the hassles of roll film.



The Impossible Project has once again pulled off a minor miracle & designed & built a new Polaroid instant camera this year (thanks in part to Kickstarter).

The Impossible Instant Lab converts iPhone images to Polaroids. There's a shop close to me where I've seen it at work, & it's the real deal. I sincerely hope that this thing will enable them to scale up to where they can sell their film for less than two bucks a shot.


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## Sporgon (Apr 15, 2014)

funkboy said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps, but I still _love _ steam locomotives !
> ...



I do ! 

I'm really a big kid. Good to hear that this one is being brought back to steaming condition. It's the difference between living and dead.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 15, 2014)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2598869/Camera-view-Cafe-South-Korean-countryside-shaped-like-vintage-Rolleiflex.html


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## mgkaplan (Apr 15, 2014)

Get it!

When I was a kid, I drooled over the Rolleis - but I could not afford one.

Today I have 3 Rollei TLRs. One is a 2.8. I never use them, but I love them. They are displayed in my antique camera showcase.

Clearly these cameras were in a class of their own. 

Go for it! You will not regret it.


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## Halfrack (Apr 15, 2014)

Where in the world you are matters, as Rollieflex is still around. Here in the USA, check out http://rolleiflex.us/ the 6008 platform is pretty slick.

MF is enough of a difference in shooting style and technique, it allows you to challenge yourself, with the safety net of the Canon gear. Personally I want to spend some time with a Mamiya RZ Pro II, after playing with a Hasselblad 501 last weekend, it's on my to shoot with list.


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## jcns (Apr 16, 2014)

if you have that kind of money, go ahead.
if you don't have that kind of money, ......


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## noisejammer (Apr 16, 2014)

How can I possibly dissuade you? The very first camera I used was a Rollei. I think I was 4... might have been 5! It's not pristine but that same camera is a treasured heirloom.

I was out pottering in the park with it a while back - I was approached by a yl who asked me "What is that thing?" She wasn't impressed with it being a 60-odd year old camera.

We're only 11 years from the 10D hitting the streets - I get the feeling that the digital business is now using mature technology. After seeing so many companies chuck it in, my main concern is whether _any_ film will be available in 10 years. Sadly, I fear not.


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## agierke (Apr 16, 2014)

funkboy said:


> agierke said:
> 
> 
> > this past winter i refurbed a polaroid 180 so that i can shoot with it for fun. for me, polaroid pack film captures the "magical" experience of film photography without the hassles of roll film.
> ...



i was super excited about IP coming into existence but alas, they have mostly disappointed me. their films take an excrutiating amount of time to process and the results are pretty random and lackluster. when your "instant" film takes 30 to 60 mins to develop properly it is a) not that instant and b) lacking severely in practical useability.

Fuji packfilm on the other hand is an absolute joy to use. very sad that it seems to be slowly going away as well.


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## Grumbaki (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks all for the advices. I'm manage to refrain myself for now but I'll probably hit the store soon for more details and start negociation. 



drolo61 said:


> I can send pictures if you are interested. Where are you based?


I'm lost in South west China but thanks for the proposal. Actually the place also matters in the price. I'm sure I could shave a couple hundred easily on the price if I was in the US or EUR. But I don't want to buy online (test + risks of shipping) so there is a probablepremium of buying in such a remote place. I might make a trip to HK soon too.



sootzzs said:


> People here are more into practical photography and 2300$ could buy some nice new and shiny lens with a red ring around it. And they will be as right as you'll be if you buy the Flex. The question is what will bring YOU more joy??? Only you can answer it.


I'm pretty much set on my kit as I don't do birds. Outside of photo, only travel could rival as an expense but I'm on the cheap side for that. But as I said that one of the "cons"



> PS.: As a side question: except of the obvious advantage of the Medium Format resolution (is it really equivalent to 60 Mega pixel picture?) is there any advantage to the film (35mm or other) over a full frame DSLR (which I can't compare to)?



Maybe it's propaganda but from what I saw DR is waaaaaayyy better than anything digtal when you shoot B+W. Even on a lubitel.



Snodge said:


> Why don't you have a look for a Yashicamat 124G instead of the Rolleiflex? Pretty much the same sort of spec and quality, but a whole lot cheaper. If you don't need a TLR, have a look for a decent folder - Agfa Isolette, Franka Solida, Baldix, or like the one I got last week, a Kershaw 450, which only cost me £40


TLR is Superior due to no Mirror clapping. First because of non existant IS but also for noise issues.
I'll think about the Yashicat. But I'm in the "resell value" approach so it might be less advantageous.


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## funkboy (Apr 16, 2014)

You might also have a good long look at a Mamiya C-series TLR. They're really quite nice and have the advantage of interchangeable lenses.






Adorama has a C330 Pro-S in excellent condition for $US 200.

I almost bought one several years ago back when I was still shooting film occasionally but decided that it would just sit on the shelf & gather dust next to the EOS 1n most of the time...


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## Grumbaki (Apr 16, 2014)

funkboy said:


> They're really quite nice and have the advantage of interchangeable lenses.



Nice attempt but I'm a fixed lens weirdo for that kind of 100% leisure shooting stuff.

Actually one thing that would make me not pull the trigger is the announcement of a full frame Fuji X100s


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## deleteme (Apr 16, 2014)

I won't dissuade you because the Rolleiflex is a brilliant camera.
The Mamiya TLRs are also great and are more flexible.
However the purity of the fixed lens is, to my mind, more in keeping with the pleasure of having a great walking around camera as opposed to the superhuman problem-solving capabilities of a more complex "pro" system.


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## Niki (Apr 16, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> Went to my usual shop today for some CF cards.
> 
> Since my last visit a Rolleiflex popped up in their Vintage section. 2.8F, visually and optically mint. Asking price of 2300 USD (in local currency). Can probably be bargained down quite a bit (around 10% would be a reasonnable aime just for principles).
> 
> ...




I just started shooting with one last summer love it!! get it!!


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## Sporgon (Apr 16, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> Actually one thing that would make me not pull the trigger is the announcement of a full frame Fuji X100s



Hmmm......

From one extreme to the other............ :


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## funkboy (Apr 16, 2014)

Normalnorm said:


> I won't dissuade you because the Rolleiflex is a brilliant camera.
> The Mamiya TLRs are also great and are more flexible.
> However the purity of the fixed lens is, to my mind, more in keeping with the pleasure of having a great walking around camera as opposed to the superhuman problem-solving capabilities of a more complex "pro" system.



That's an interesting perspective. The Rollei is certainly a lot more portable than the Mamiya, & possibly more "inspiring" to use (I can't really comment on either; I've handled TLRs before a little bit but never really done any work with one). The C330s is certainly pretty heavy.

My perspective is that the most advanced C-series camera can be had in excellent condition from a good shop for $200, which is 10x less than the Rolleiflex the O.P. was looking at. For something that I would only trot out occasionally at best or use for some special situations, I'd have a hard time spending much more than that on it.


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## funkboy (Apr 16, 2014)

BTW other than compatibility with more cameras, does anyone have any idea why 220 film is so scarce?

B&H has ~60 120 film options, but only Kodak Portra in 220 (& @ $75 for a 5-pack it's not exactly affordable).

If someone comes up with a functional digital back adapter for these TLRs then their resale value would skyrocket...


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## yeahyoung (Apr 17, 2014)

I love my like new Yashica 124G which I got for $100.


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## yeahyoung (Apr 17, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> I'm lost in South west China but thanks for the proposal. Actually the place also matters in the price. I'm sure I could shave a couple hundred easily on the price if I was in the US or EUR. But I don't want to buy online (test + risks of shipping) so there is a probablepremium of buying in such a remote place. I might make a trip to HK soon too.



As someone from China, I can tell you that HK is the place to go if you want more options and much cheaper prices.


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## Vivid Color (Apr 17, 2014)

Grumbaki said:


> Vivid Color said:
> 
> 
> > Dear Grumbaki: You've not really said why you might want this camera, but you did ask us to dissuade you.
> ...



Dear Grumbaki, They are your "pros" and preferences I see my role here as mostly asking questions to help you think through all of your options. The one thing I will follow up on though, is your statement about not having much time for shooting. So then the issue is whether you want to get this camera now or wait until you can use it more. I have no idea how often these types of cameras in excellent condition come on the market. But one way I tend to think about cost when I'm thinking about buying something is on per use basis. So if it's something that I'm going to use all the time, I tend to be willing to spend more money --often a lot more money – than if it something I'll use rarely or only on occasion. So here are some more questions: what is the downside of waiting? Is it possible that by the time you become less busy, you might not want this camera at all? And let's go back to opportunity cost: if you are not going to get much use out of this now, would you feel your money is better spent by going on the nice trip that you mentioned? Or can you get the camera and go on the trip? And lastly, what is your uncertainty about this camera really telling you? I hope these questions help. Let us know what you decide. --Vivid


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## Grumbaki (Apr 17, 2014)

yeahyoung said:


> Grumbaki said:
> 
> 
> > I'm lost in South west China but thanks for the proposal.
> ...



From what I saw in my previous trips, HK is not really that much cheaper for vintage gear. For new stuff sure. But there is for sure more choice. Which is kind of not relevant as the exact model I wished pop'd up (minty 2.8F Planar with meter).
I'll hit the shop on Saturday for more details and start the nego. 14K CNY as first asking price to a laowai tells me I can go down to 12k without difficulty (and that's even before chatting accessories and suchs...I want the damn original box! Was theremanual in chinese? ). If all the mechanical tests are right, anything 12k and under is a decent price even for the US or EUR. (specially since CNY is "tanking" versus EUR recently )



Sporgon said:


> Grumbaki said:
> 
> 
> > Actually one thing that would make me not pull the trigger is the announcement of a full frame Fuji X100s
> ...



Hehe true but outside of politics, I like the extremes  But outside of the prevention of spray and pray by the Rollei, some points are valid (ligthweight, force to be creative thru single lens, discreet). Rollei also adds the ice breaker element, the collector/resale factor and the film (that will partialy be a chore, I know)
Actually I'm not even sure it would prevent me to buy both as the lightweight combo might be awesome with Fuji for fast action and Rollei for quiet "meditative" shooting. Now that is bad GAS 



Vivid Color said:


> But one way I tend to think about cost when I'm thinking about buying something is on per use basis. So if it's something that I'm going to use all the time, I tend to be willing to spend more money --often a lot more money – than if it something I'll use rarely or only on occasion.


Thanks for the very zen input. I did cut your quote as this part is the central difference. I think in term of costs but not upfront, more long term. Picking up such a camera (with good appraisal of the quality) is like picking up a 200 2.0L for 3K in mint condition. Even if you never use it, as long as you don't break it, you can resell it for the same amout or more...The only cost is actual use (specially with film) and the "lost interests" of the bank account. If I ever need some cash back, it'll go back on the market. With the same idea, that's was I was more reluctant to shell out for body than for glass.


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## drolo61 (Apr 17, 2014)

Hi Grumbaki,
I just now read your list of pro's, and the admiration of superb craftsmanship is the main reason for my all-mechanical "film stuff" still sitting on ashelf and - yes, gathering dust. Anytime I try to sell off anything, I feel embarassed to part for relatively little money (that makes no vital difference in my day to day living) from these pieces of beauty. I think of my Nikon FE2: light, reliable, all mechanical and still fully functional. A couple of years ago in my "medium format phase" I traveld with a Hasselblad 500C and a bystander commented on the bright viewfinder "most likely draining the battry really fast". Imagine his surprise...
Whatever you do, GAS is severe, to my knowledge incurable, and very good fun if you dont overspend your existential limits ;.))
Enjoy and Happy Easter


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## sootzzs (Apr 18, 2014)

> I'll hit the shop on Saturday for more details and start the nego.



Now that we weren't able to dissuade you from buying the Rollei, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable to hijack this thread. Not only I didn't managed to dissuade you out of buying I got some severe GAS myself in the process . I'm thinking of buying my first TLR. However, I cannot afford to spend more than around 100-120$ including shipping (which unfortunately in my case could mount to 50$ by itself). I've read a bit for the last few days and figured out that my best chances are Super Ricohflex, Czech Flexarete, Yashica A or 635 and maybe with a bit of luck Yashica-mat (not the 124). Even these, for 60-80$ (after shipping deduction) are extremely hard to find in working condition.

Am I missing something here? Are there any "cheap" but reliable TLR's (not Lubitels or Seagulls of course). Or should I pass it for now? My intention is mostly to shoot landscapes and portraits on 120mm B&W film and develop it myself. 

Thanks .


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## Rudeofus (Apr 19, 2014)

sootzzs, US$ 120 is not going to to get you very far in medium format, and you also need to take cost for film and processing into account. Shooting landscape with a cheesy camera will only disappoint you. 

The cheapest way to get started is an analog EOS camera, that way you can use all your full format lenses and get started with film while you save up for a decent medium format camera.


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## TAF (Apr 21, 2014)

sootzzs said:


> > I'll hit the shop on Saturday for more details and start the nego.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hit eBay for a Rollei. The 3.5D and 3.5E sometimes sell for that amount (less the shipping). I got my first 2.8E for not much more (I think I paid $150 for it).

Since you plan on using it, I would avoid the earlier models (the Old Standard etc) as they are getting old enough to likely require servicing. And their internal mirror will be failing (the silver does deteriorate over time, much more so on the pre-war models), and the ground glass isn't nearly as good as 'later' ones (meaning 1960's vintage).

I write that as someone who rarely uses his 1929 Rollei (first year of production). I much prefer the more modern ones.

Also, keep your eye open for one with a built in meter that is broken; you can frequently get a really nice camera with a bad meter cheap. And if the one you are eyeing has a meter, make certain it is working, or offer lots less. I've never had an model Rollei with a working meter (I've gone through quite a few in the last 40 years). Electronics was not their strong suite.

You'll never go wrong with one of their TLR's.


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## sootzzs (Apr 22, 2014)

Thanks for the input guys.

I've settled on working (hopefully) Super Ricohflex for the beginning. 40$+30$ shipping (the shipping from the US abroad is a bit crazy lately. a year ago it was around 15$ I think). From what I've read it should be a nice, basic and solid enough entry TLR. Hopefully it will be such in reality. 

The Rolleis+ shipping were way about my limit unfortunately.


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## traingineer (Apr 23, 2014)

funkboy said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps, but I still _love _ steam locomotives !
> ...



The Deutsche Bahn Class 44 steam loco has been my favourite steam loco.


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