# FF - 6D, or wait of 6DII?



## rfdesigner (Jan 23, 2016)

Hi. 

I am an amateur shooter, I've been saving for a little while with the view of getting the 6D.. some cash has unexpetidly appeared and I now have enough to get even a 5DIII... however rumors seem to suggest a new generation of sensors starting with the 1DXII is just around the corner.. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume a 5DIV then a 6DII will appear later this year with similarly upgraded sensors. 

I've made a list of what I want from a new camera body, roughly in order, although the first few items are all, for me, essential, I'm currently shooting with a 30D.

I want :

Much better low light ability, more the merrier.
Shallower DoF (I already use wide primes)
AutoISO
AFMA
improved AF system (primarily I want it to work in low light I don't particulalry use my camera for sports)
liveview focussing
better resolution (which means anything made in the last 5 years)
better DR at base ISO (30D is 10.8bit according to DxO, I'd like at least 2 more stops)
ability to slip in a fine grain focus screen for use with wide primes.
bigger brighter viewfinder
a level would be handy but not essential

I want to keep:
The general toughness I've got in my 30D.. it's been dropped a few times.. not too far and not onto concrete, but it's survived every time with AF being where it was when I bought it.
AF point selection by the multi-controller button. (I know the 6D doesn't have it)

so do I wait and see what a 6DII looks like or do I go for the current 6D now?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 23, 2016)

Some features you want, the current 6D has not, and it is unknown if the 6D Mark II will have.
I see two options:

Buy 5D Mar iii now.

Wait 6D Mark ii, it may be better at high ISO settings, but nothing is guaranteed.


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## StudentOfLight (Jan 23, 2016)

I'd wait for at least another two weeks before making any decision. IMHO I wouldn't buy a 5D-III or a 6D right now unless it was a killer deal... 

After the Feb announcements who knows what the market and refurb market will look like.


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## Yiannis A - Greece (Jan 23, 2016)

Dear friend,

I'd suggest you to buy a 5D Mk3 today and forget all this marketing war about 4K, 15+ stops of dynamic range, 10,000,000+ ISO etc. Going from a 30D to 5D Mk3 is like rejecting the "pleasure" of crossing the Atlantic in a steam boat for the mindblowing experience of travelling through the stars on Enterprise. 5D III is a photographic machine that will outshoot you before you even learn how to use all its modes in any possible scenario. It also has a fully developed Magic Lantern firmware which (in my opinion) will help you create much more cinematic movies than any 4K firmware available on any camera today, spending hours of creative and joyful experience with your pc and a cup of coffee in your hand; anyway, that's the way i enjoy post-processing of my 5D Mk3 images and videos. If i want to shoot a 4K super crisp video (just for fun, during a trip etc) i get to my modded S4 Advanve. If i want high dynamic range, i just put flat cinematic profile on the 5D and "shoot to the right" (slightly overexpose using higher ISO). As for ruggedness and durability, nothing seems more Pro than the 5D Mk3 (or 1Dx if you don't mind the size and weight of a cement block). I've taken my 5D all over the world, shooting in any possible condition and anytime i look at it on my desk, it looks as fresh and young and sturdy as Lara Croft at prom night... 

My 2c: Buy a 5D Mk3 today, use it and abuse it till it brings tears to your eyes and waves of pleasure to your heart and soul; tomorrow is very far away and life is too short for waiting. After some time a Mark xx will come out but, just imagine the tons of photos you'll have missed, the thousands of moments that will have come and gone without a picture to remind them.

Always be strong, be lucky,be surrounded by those you love and those who love you the most. Live each moment in peace and happiness. 

Yours faithfully
Yiannis, Athens, Greece.


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## 9VIII (Jan 23, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> ...
> ability to slip in a fine grain focus screen for use with wide primes.
> ...



I doubt Canon is going to support that ability ever again. None of their more recent bodies have it. You're probably looking at EOS-M if you want to manual focus wide aperture primes.

But, if you can double your budget, you might, maybe, I know it's horrible of me to post this...

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2013/eos1dx_interchangeable_focus_screens.shtml#page2


> EOS-1D series cameras are the only professional digital SLRs on the market, as of April 2013, that offer an option for split-image focusing in the viewfinder.



$4,500 is a lot of money, but I expect to see professional photographers clinging to these well beyond 10 years from now, it's loaded with freatures you will probably never see anywhere else.
And the 1DXMkII is about to be announced, maybe the 1DX can still get cheaper.
Of course it's also twice as much a heavy lump as anything else discussed too.


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## Khufu (Jan 23, 2016)

I think people are underestimating the 6D here. Relative to the 5DIII it's meant to have better High ISO performance, better low light AF accuracy with its centre focus point AND... *drum roll* 

...an interchangable focus screen!! NOT an option on the 5DIII.

There's also a super-cool High ISO Noise Reduction feature, which is great on the EOS M2, that creates a low noise composite JPEG from 3 or 4 High ISO shots and makes most of the noise go away for in-the-dark photography! This is featured in the 6D, not the 5DIII. I imagine the results are amazing with the 6D sensor.

For the record, I'm a 5DIII user. I would like a 6D


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## Haydn1971 (Jan 23, 2016)

Just buy a 6D now and enjoy the brilliance of its output - also buy a copy of Lightroom too !


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## Frodo (Jan 23, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> I want :
> 
> Much better low light ability, more the merrier.
> Shallower DoF (I already use wide primes)
> ...



The 6D already has all those features. I find that the multifunction dial is nearly as good as the multi-function controller, so this should not be a deal breaker. Plus there are additional advantages of lighter weight and GPS. I've tried the high speed multi-shot setting and do not find it an improvement over a well-processed shot in Lightroom. Same with the inbuilt HDR setting.
You will find the 6D a dramatic improvement over the 30D - I had a 20D years ago.
The 6D is currently available on special prices.
Sure you could speculate that it will be cheaper or a new one will be better.
Or you could buy what I think is Canon's best value DSLR now and get another lens with the saving over the 5DIII. Or better, spend the saving on a trip somewhere to really advance your photography.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 23, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> Hi.
> 
> I am an amateur shooter, I've been saving for a little while with the view of getting the 6D.. some cash has unexpetidly appeared and I now have enough to get even a 5DIII... however rumors seem to suggest a new generation of sensors starting with the 1DXII is just around the corner..



Its not really a rumor, just a flat out statement by Canon that future generations will use on sensor ADC's. The only thing we do not know is if they mean new camera generations or new sensor generations.

Personally, I'd wait and see. Be aware that prices of new model cameras will be much higher, so you will need to save more money.

Also be aware that first buying good lenses is the best use of your dollars. A new camera generation might be 1/2 stop better, but you can get 1 or 2 or more stops improvement with the right lens depending on what you have now. The best camera body is still limited by its lens (and the photographer, of course).

I'd say buy a 6D and high end lenses over a new body and consumer lenses. If You have ef-s lenses for your 30D, they will not work on FF, a 70D would be a nice improvement for $700.


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## aroo (Jan 23, 2016)

6D is such a great camera, and inexpensive right now! About the AF point selection: it's very easy to do with your thumb on the big round control button/dial on the back. There just aren't a whole lot of points to choose from 

With the glass you can get to go along with a 6D on your budget, that's what you want to look into! The kit lens is durable and very practical in the zoom range (24-105). But if you skip that...


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## PhotographyFirst (Jan 23, 2016)

The 6D is dirty cheap as refurb right now...

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-6d-body-refurbished

I loved my 6D while I had it. Image quality is outstanding for a Canon camera. Although I much preferred my 60D in terms of usability due to the swivel screen. 

I would get the 6D now, then sell it when the 6D II comes out if it has something you want/need. Think of it as renting the 6D for a couple dollars a day/week.


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## zim (Jan 23, 2016)

do you have any specific photographic events you want to capture in the next two years that require particular features like fps, real good af servo mode?

If not (and even then a 6D might be enough to get by if its not that important) get a grey market 6D now wait for the 5DIV to come out and come down to a price you are happy with, sell the 6D, 30D and go for it!!

Well that's what I'm doing with a 7D which was a better fit for me at the time.

and get a copy of Capture One, worth the effort to learn (and it does take some)


Oh and your contributions to some of those really technical posts, which in all honesty go way over my head, are non the less most interesting and enlightening, thanks


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## tcmatthews (Jan 23, 2016)

I would get a refurbished 6D or 5D III now they are both excellent cameras. But you might want to wait for the 5D IV announcement. There will always be some that want to sell the 5D III to buy a 5D IV so used prices could be very nice. 

And trust me when I say this there is a huge increase in IQ at higher ISO when moving to full frame compared to the 30D. 

I think there is only a 75% chance of a 6D II announcement this year. There maybe several opportunities you miss between now and then. 

If you are serious about manual focus I would not rule out the Sony A7II the problem with it is it will not a fall nearly as well as a 6D. But it is better for manual focus than any modern DSLR.


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## rfdesigner (Jan 23, 2016)

thanks, all comments are very welcome.. I've picked out a few choice ones to hang this reply on.



StudentOfLight said:


> I'd wait for at least another two weeks before making any decision. IMHO I wouldn't buy a 5D-III or a 6D right now unless it was a killer deal...
> 
> After the Feb announcements who knows what the market and refurb market will look like.



fair point.. I can press pause for a couple of weeks.

Re numerous comments for 5DIII vs 6D.. From what I can tell the 6D IQ is a hairs breadth above the 5D while the 5D AF is leagues ahead of the 6D.. but I don't shoot much in the way of high speed targets, the big gain for the 5DIII is spread, but I've been shooting focus recompose since I got my first SLR in 1989, so it's no hardship.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its not really a rumor, just a flat out statement by Canon that future generations will use on sensor ADC's. The only thing we do not know is if they mean new camera generations or new sensor generations.
> 
> Personally, I'd wait and see. Be aware that prices of new model cameras will be much higher, so you will need to save more money.
> 
> ...



I already have a couple of wide aperture primes as, when I bought my second lens, I decided I wanted to upgrade to FF in due course, so after the kit lens I've only looked at EF.. I got used to primes on my film SLR and prefer the wide aperture. I would have a third prime but I want to see if Canon will do a decent 50f1.4.. if one isn't released before I go FF I'll get the STM to bridge the gap (as I tend to shoot wide open I want reliable AF and I'm more than aware of how some sigmas can perform on that score). If I were to throw more serious money at a lens it would probably be the 85f1.2 or possibly 135L.. but I'm loving the 100f2.0 I've got right now, so the cost of upgrading just that lens is comparable to going FF but with much more limited beneft as the 100 is just so good already. My weak lens is the 28f1.8, but even that has produced prints I'm genuinely proud of and are hanging on the wall at A3 and look perfectly sharp (at f1.8 ). What I can see myself doing is buying a 70-200 of some sort as I know I'm going to lose reach, but I'll only do that after having made the jump.. (something for 2017)



PhotographyFirst said:


> The 6D is dirty cheap as refurb right now...
> 
> http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-6d-body-refurbished
> 
> ...



Referb wise, Canon UK don't seem to do that. Never seen an ad for it over here. But we do have grey market and the way things are over here it seems Canon UK isn't losing out as grey suppliers are providing alternative warranties for 3 years, which is better that the 2yrs you get from Canon directly. (2 yrs is EU law)

So.. I'll wait until we have an idea as to whether the 1DXII shows a genuine major improvement in sensor tech. My view is 2 stops is not impossible.. if it's only 1/2 a stop I'll grab a 6D. if it's one stop I'll have a dilemma.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 23, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> So.. I'll wait until we have an idea as to whether the 1DXII shows a genuine major improvement in sensor tech. My view is 2 stops is not impossible.. if it's only 1/2 a stop I'll grab a 6D. if it's one stop I'll have a dilemma.


There is no possibility of 6D Mark ii ISO performance will have 2 stops better than the current 6D. This is in the field of delirious dreams. :

On the other hand, any full frame camera available now will show a high ISO improvement of 3 or 4 stops over his old 30D.  What are you hoping to be happy right now?


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## rfdesigner (Jan 23, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > So.. I'll wait until we have an idea as to whether the 1DXII shows a genuine major improvement in sensor tech. My view is 2 stops is not impossible.. if it's only 1/2 a stop I'll grab a 6D. if it's one stop I'll have a dilemma.
> ...



I know it sounds a little much but I went through the maths..

back illuminated (1/2 a stop) + adc/column and slowish readout similar to Andors sCMOS chips (~1.5 stops if they slow it down enough.. they get sub 1e readout noise.. on a chip that's about 3 or 4 years old now)

possible, not probable, but possible.

I'm expecting though that it's less than that... I could see a 6D being essentially the same chip as 1DXII but front illuminated to save cash, cutting down to 1.5 stops tops.. more likely one stop.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 23, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > rfdesigner said:
> ...



Back illumination of a FF sensor does not boost light sensitivity by a significant amount. Not even APS-C. It does allow for faster video, which is why no one used it until it solved some video issues.

Lower noise from on chip[ ADC might help 1/2 stop, and other misc improvements 1/4 stop.

However, as others have said, you will gain light by going from a 30D to a 6D. I'd doubt two stops, but maybe 1-1/2.

You will suddenly find your 100mm lens is not as long as before, you will need 135 to get the same approximate image. On the other hand, your 35mm will be more like a 24mm on the crop.

Plan on at least one longer lens. If you do not have a 35mm, you will want one. On FF, the focal range of 24-200 is really useful. If you like superwide, there are good choices.


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## 9VIII (Jan 24, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Back illumination of a FF sensor does not boost light sensitivity by a significant amount. Not even APS-C. It does allow for faster video, which is why no one used it until it solved some video issues.



People have been saying that High ISO on the A7RII is really good, I wouldn't discount the benefits of BSI for any crop sensor over 20MP (which is more dense than the A7RII).
And if it enables faster readout all the better.


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## Luds34 (Jan 24, 2016)

Especially after reading your comment about "focus and recompose" and not needing to "shoot sports" I'd opt for the 6D now. What? Is it going to set you back $1000? Even if a 6D II comes out (in almost a year) it will probably be twice that cost. You're shooting a 30D today. Not cutting edge. Any modern FF camera is going to be a significant step up. For me, life is too short to wait even another year. Combine that with costs as cheap as they are, get a 6D today at a pretty decent price and enjoy. You can always upgrade to a newer 5D/6D mark whatever down the road.

For the record, I had a 70D when I bought a 6D. Like you wildlife/sports, etc isn't what I do so the 70D collected dust after I purchased the 6D. Before I made the jump to FF, I said to thought to myself, "It will probably be underwhelming the IQ difference in day to day shooting... but I will never look back." And it was so.

Happy shooting!


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## photogdan (Jan 24, 2016)

I was happy and ignorant hobbyist using a 300D for years. I finally purchased a 70D a couple years ago and was amazed. Last year, still wanting more I purchased a 6D. I couldn't be happier. After reader the 6DMKII rumors, I'm excited again. The problem is by the time it's announced, released and shipped it could be 2017. It might be 2018 before the price settles to the levels of the current 6D. 

Today's 6D meets almost all your wish list items. My advice is to buy the 6D now and as others have said buy a nice lens or take a trip with the rest of the money. Then when the 6DMKIII rumors emerge in 2018, you can grab a MKII and get a great deal in the process.


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## bholliman (Jan 24, 2016)

The 6D is a terrific camera for non-sports/action shooting. The IQ is excellent and its small and light for a FF DSLR. I had one for over three years and still use it often even after I added a 5D3 and later 5DsR to my camera bag. When/if the 6DII comes out, you can always sell the 6D to help fund the purchase of the newer body. At current prices, I don't think a 6D will lose more than a few hundred dollars in value in the next 18 months, as its price is already very reasonable.


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## rfdesigner (Jan 26, 2016)

Decision made

Camera savings now = £0, just waiting on a package. ;D 

thanks all round.


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