# The Canon EOS R5 and EOS R6 will be announced in the first few days of July



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 5, 2020)

> I have been told that the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 will be announced alongside each other on or around July 2, 2020, depending on where you are in the world. The Independence Day long weekend doesn’t begin until July 3, 2020. That said, I have also heard July 6 as a possible announcement date.
> So we’re a month away from the official unveiling either way!
> I have also been told to expect both cameras to have limited availability by the end of July.
> More to come…



Continue reading...


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## Go Wild (Jun 5, 2020)

Go, GO, GOOOO!!!!


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## amorse (Jun 5, 2020)

Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers. 

"Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


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## VICYASA (Jun 5, 2020)

So... wait and see again. Recycled drivel.


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## Mark3794 (Jun 5, 2020)

I'm really glad that Canon is investing in the RF line because ebay is full of crazy deals on EF lenses


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## lglass12189 (Jun 5, 2020)

My second cousins sister in law's aunt heard from a guy who she met in front of a camera store that the New Canon R5 and R6 will be announced the on July 14th and will cost $3,000 Australian Dollars. MORE TO COME!


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## vjlex (Jun 5, 2020)

Man, I thought the wait just for Endgame's title was the most dragged out and irritating tease/publicity stunt... I guess Canon is aiming for MCU dollars (and/or yen).


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## deleteme (Jun 5, 2020)

Canon is doing a great job keeping the lid on the resolution and the price. Two numbers that loom large in the imagination.


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## magarity (Jun 5, 2020)

edoorn said:


> nice! but.. what has independence day weekend got to do with this? Canon is a Japanese company and the rest of the world doesn't really care about the 4th of July


When one runs a global company, major markets' holidays should be taken into account. July 1 is big in Canada and China, the 4th in the US. So that leaves the 2nd, 3rd or 6th on in July : https://travelnotes.org/Events/07-jul.htm


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## N-VB (Jun 5, 2020)

" availability by the end of July" my birthday is going to expensive this year !


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## Fran Decatta (Jun 5, 2020)

Counting days! so excited to see what canon will bring finally with those two cameras! Extremely interested and imagining how R6 will be.


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## slclick (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


Camera Owner: "No, that's not a new camera, I just cleaned it."
Spouse: "Why are you taking pictures of that other camera and looking at Ebay all the time?"


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## usern4cr (Jun 5, 2020)

Yes, it's great to finally have a release date.  But since there's nothing else in this thread, I'll just take a nap till we get one with something worth staying awake for.


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## slclick (Jun 5, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> Canon is doing a great job keeping the lid on the resolution and the price. Two numbers that loom large in the imagination.


You must be referring to the 6. The 5 rez is a known number.


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## xiaohuaa (Jun 5, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> I'm really glad that Canon is investing in the RF line because ebay is full of crazy deals on EF lenses


Oh really? Can you share what EF lenses are having good deals?


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## derpderp (Jun 5, 2020)

First dibs on 1 of each, thanks!


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## masterpix (Jun 5, 2020)

Canon have learned the way to control the hype to their products! Way to go!


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## edoorn (Jun 5, 2020)

magarity said:


> When one runs a global company, major markets' holidays should be taken into account. July 1 is big in Canada and China, the 4th in the US. So that leaves the 2nd, 3rd or 6th on in July : https://travelnotes.org/Events/07-jul.htm


4 is a weekend day anyway, but I can see July 1 not being a suitable one then. 1DX III announcement was on a Monday, to be more precise: the 6th. So I'd say July 6.


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## another_mikey (Jun 5, 2020)

So what does no CR rating mean? Is this so speculative that it is just a guess that is below a CR1 level, or is it so certain that it is presented as fact, and does not require a rumor rating at all?


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## Lenscracker (Jun 5, 2020)

Eventually, the prediction of "Next Month" will become reality.


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## sobrien (Jun 5, 2020)

slclick said:


> Camera Owner: "No, that's not a new camera, I just cleaned it."
> Spouse: "Why are you taking pictures of that other camera and looking at Ebay all the time?"





I’m wondering if I could get away with selling my R and getting an R5 and R6 and get away with just the R6 being new


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## N-VB (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


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## PhotoRN86 (Jun 5, 2020)

I just bought the RP to have it as my backup camera when I get the R5, Ive been sitting on RF lenses this past month with no body... so I couldn’t go 2 months without a camera to play with those lenses and this is greaaat news!!!


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## PhotoRN86 (Jun 5, 2020)

Wait a min... so the R5 and R6 will be released about the same time as one another?


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## Mark3794 (Jun 5, 2020)

xiaohuaa said:


> Oh really? Can you share what EF lenses are having good deals?


Mainly teles... 70-200 f4l is mint conditions at 500/550 euros, 300mm F4l is at 550


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## Fast351 (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"



My card slot is almost completely broken. No, I can't get another 70D, it has to be an R5...

We'll see how it goes


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## deleteme (Jun 5, 2020)

slclick said:


> You must be referring to the 6. The 5 rez is a known number.


Really? AFAIK the number of 40+MP is speculation. Never confirmed. Certainly not by Canon.


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## Maximilian (Jun 5, 2020)

I think we've heard that before ("July"). So why waking us up again with not much detail? *yawn* 
Wake me up, when you know the exact date, then I set the alarm clock.

gn8


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## edoorn (Jun 5, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> Really? AFAIK the number of 40+MP is speculation. Never confirmed. Certainly not by Canon.



speculation, but it could make sense. Minimum is 33mpix, that's a given.


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## Paul Nordin (Jun 5, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Man, I thought the wait just for Endgame's title was the most dragged out and irritating tease/publicity stunt... I guess Canon is aiming for MCU dollars (and/or yen).


Then you've clearly never purchased a promised product from Red...legendary hype, followed by epic waits. But the waits are usually worth it.


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## PhotographerJim (Jun 5, 2020)

I'm really looking forward to trying out the R5. Looks like I sold my 5Dmk4 just in time (last year).


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## LesC (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


 Best not to run it past the Financial Controller  Or at least be very vague about pricing...


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## art sanchez (Jun 5, 2020)

@Canon Rumors Guy Is there any chance to see an updated M5 and M50 bodies coming in July too?


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 5, 2020)

Shooting wildlife I recently learned from a guy who had a new 1D X III, that its low light performance is really impressive. So I hope the R6 will serve stills shooters looking for clean images @ high ISOs about the same way. Not everyone wants a big dual grip camera body.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 5, 2020)

Not really sure what we are waiting on at this point. Tomorrow is just as good as sometime in July to announce it unless they are holding off for the virus to come to an end(which could be another six months). Ether way it will be interesting to get a glimpse at what is coming up next, even if it wont matter until wildlife lenses come out.


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## Doug7131 (Jun 5, 2020)

edoorn said:


> speculation, but it could make sense. Minimum is 33mpix, that's a given.


It will more than that. Depending on the horizontal resolution of the 8K mode (I don't think this information has been released) you have two minimum resolutions the R5 could have:
8K UHD - 7680 pixels wide gives a minimum of 39.3MP
"DCI" 8K - 8192 pixels wide gives a minimum of 44.7MP


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## hne (Jun 5, 2020)

Paul Nordin said:


> Then you've clearly never purchased a promised product from Red...legendary hype, followed by epic waits. But the waits are usually worth it.



Have you heard of Duke Nukem Forever?
Promo material released between first announcement in 1997 all the way up to the game's release in 2011!


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 5, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> Eventually, the prediction of "Next Month" will become reality.


Yes, but obviously only for a limited number of lucky ones who manage to get an R5/6 already that month.


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## bbasiaga (Jun 5, 2020)

man that's another month! I just really want to know where that R6 lands.


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 5, 2020)

hne said:


> Have you heard of Duke Nukem Forever?
> Promo material released between first announcement in 1997 all the way up to the game's release in 2011!


Good for those who kept their gameboys somewhere in the attic


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## sanj (Jun 5, 2020)

Can anyone predict if the R6 will be small like RF? Or does anyone know? If yes, I will sell my RF while I can still get a good price and update with R6. THXXX


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## Doug7131 (Jun 5, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Not really sure what we are waiting on at this point. Tomorrow is just as good as sometime in July to announce it unless they are holding off for the virus to come to an end(which could be another six months). Ether way it will be interesting to get a glimpse at what is coming up next, even if it wont matter until wildlife lenses come out.


I’m guessing that they want to have as many R5s ready to ship soon after the release announcement as possible. Canon probably want to avoid announcing a camera then having a 3 month wait before they can sell any of them. Their manufacturing capabilities have almost certainly been affected so it’s probably taking a lot longer than usual.


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## Steve Balcombe (Jun 5, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> It will more than that. Depending on the horizontal resolution of the 8K mode (I don't think this information has been released) you have two minimum resolutions the R5 could have:
> 8K UHD - 7680 pixels wide gives a minimum of 39.3MP
> "DCI" 8K - 8192 pixels wide gives a minimum of 44.7MP


Somewhere in Canon's press releases, DCI 4K is specified, and both 4K and 8K are uncropped so the resolution has to be 8192 wide, plus or minus nothing. The fact that this fits with the early rumours of 45 MP doesn't prove it, but it fits nicely.


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## herein2020 (Jun 5, 2020)

The R6 may be the first camera I have ever pre-ordered, it will make a great gimbal companion to the C200 and replacement for the GH5. If by some unimaginable circumstance the R5 does come in below $3500, I might spring for that instead because of the 4K120FPS spec. The big question of course is what is crippled and how badly.


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## RBSfphoto (Jun 5, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Not really sure what we are waiting on at this point. Tomorrow is just as good as sometime in July to announce it unless they are holding off for the virus to come to an end(which could be another six months). Either way it will be interesting to get a glimpse at what is coming up next, even if it wont matter until wildlife lenses come out.


depends what you use it for not everyone shoots wildlife  I have been a professional with my sole income being photography for 30 + years, have never owned a wildlife lens , and for that matter only ever shot one wedding, but I do want this camera asap


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## Steve Balcombe (Jun 5, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> If by some unimaginable circumstance the R5 does come in below $3500, I might spring for that instead because of the 4K120FPS spec. The big question of course is what is crippled and how badly.


No way is Canon going to tease us with the best of the specs, then save the disappointing bits for the full announcement. That would be incredibly bad marketing by Canon, letting us down just when we are on the point of hitting the Buy button, and I just don't see that happening. That said, I'm still anxious to know about the EVF, which will make it or break it for me and I know for many others too...


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## peters (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


"Its impossible to do my work and it takes away so many chances from my business. I cant earn money without this camera and this costs more in the long run!"


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## herein2020 (Jun 5, 2020)

Steve Balcombe said:


> No way is Canon going to tease us with the best of the specs, then disappoint us when the full announcement comes. That would be incredibly bad marketing by Canon, letting us down just when we are on the point of hitting the Buy button, and I just don't see that happening. That said, I'm still anxious to know about the EVF, which will make it or break it for me and I know for many others too...



The problem is, the specs that will really sell it for me are niche specs that most other people don't seem to care about, I'm not saying they will do something as bad as use MJPEG for 4K like the 5DIV but I want the R6 to achieve feature parity with the GH5 in obscure ways that Canon has yet to achieve. Below are the features that the GH5 has that I feel Canon will not match:


Dual slot video recording - On every body except their cinema line Canon only records video to one slot (not sure about the 1DC or 1DXIII) which makes having dual slots useless for video
Recording limit - this is a big gripe of mine, I need a b cam for long interviews, conferences, documentaries, etc. having a recording limit in 2020 is ridiculous; the GH5 doesn't have it and neither does the S1H yet the 1DXIII still has it
XLR Module - All of my audio gear uses XLR jacks so for maximum interoperability I need an XLR module for the R6
Exposure Tools - the WFM is my favorite exposure tool, I would love this on the R6
Clog3 - With Clog3 I could effortlessly match the C200 with the R6 in post
The GH5 has all of this but it also has terrible color science and no AF, I'm tired of manual focus on a gimbal, in run and gun scenarios you throw away a lot of footage trying to manually focus. If the R6 has all of these features I might even get two bodies (C200 A cam, R6 B-cam, and R6 gimbal cam)


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## ordinaryfilmmaker (Jun 5, 2020)

What makes this announcement of your so much better is knowing the credibility behind Craig and the site. Awesome news!


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## Dragon (Jun 5, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> It will more than that. Depending on the horizontal resolution of the 8K mode (I don't think this information has been released) you have two minimum resolutions the R5 could have:
> 8K UHD - 7680 pixels wide gives a minimum of 39.3MP
> "DCI" 8K - 8192 pixels wide gives a minimum of 44.7MP


And it could be 100+ MP with the 8k footage downscaled from 12k, but not likely. 45MP is hard to argue against. Conveniently close to the geometric mean between the latest A7 and A7R.


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## Richard Anthony (Jun 5, 2020)

So who is going to be the first one to get their hands on one


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## herein2020 (Jun 5, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> So who is going to be the first one to get their hands on one



The YouTubers who will help Canon sell many more...not us lowly day to day users.


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## padam (Jun 5, 2020)

sanj said:


> Can anyone predict if the R6 will be small like RF? Or does anyone know? If yes, I will sell my RF while I can still get a good price and update with R6. THXXX


It is surely going to be a bit bigger then the RP, as it uses the same LP-E6NH battery as the R5
And it also has the dual card slots (likely dual SD, maybe one is UHS-I and the other UHS-II), probably moved away from the battery as well.
But it won't have the full metal chassis, so I suspect, it may be slightly lighter than the R even with the IBIS, maybe around 600g CIPA rate.

It will be over 2000$, so it won't affect the RP's 1000$ pricing in any way.


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## slclick (Jun 5, 2020)

sobrien said:


> I’m wondering if I could get away with selling my R and getting an R5 and R6 and get away with just the R6 being new


No, honesty is the best policy. Tell her everything, NOW.


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## KeithBreazeal (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"



The solution is simple...
Go to your camera setting and set up the white balance, EV, and others so that the exposures will be so off the wall that it looks like the camera has a major failure. Take a few photos around the house spouse, the dog, cat, whatever, then start yelling and screaming that your camera has died. Show her the photos while whimpering and shedding some fake tears. 

You're welcome.


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## gatabo (Jun 5, 2020)

padam said:


> It is surely going to be a bit bigger then the RP, as it uses the same LP-E6NH battery as the R5
> And it also has the dual card slots (likely dual SD, maybe one is UHS-I and the other UHS-II)


Both cards with UHS-II 
It's Sony privilege to cripple memory card slots


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## The3o5FlyGuy (Jun 5, 2020)

I just can't imagine living in a world where a camera like the RF 28-70 L and the Canon EOS R5 are compatible with each other. Incredible


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## Nelu (Jun 5, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Shooting wildlife I recently learned from a guy who had a new 1D X III, that its low light performance is really impressive. So I hope the R6 will serve stills shooters looking for clean images @ high ISOs about the same way. Not everyone wants a big dual grip camera body.


I have both the 1-DX Mark III and the EOS-R and the 1-DX files are no cleaner than the EOS-R ones, I can assure you. Plus, the resolution is 50% lower so...


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## Whowe (Jun 5, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> The solution is simple...
> Go to your camera setting and set up the white balance, EV, and others so that the exposures will be so off the wall that it looks like the camera has a major failure. Take a few photos around the house spouse, the dog, cat, whatever, then start yelling and screaming that your camera has died. Show her the photos while whimpering and shedding some fake tears.
> 
> You're welcome.


I think you have really put some thought into this...


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## amorse (Jun 5, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> The solution is simple...
> Go to your camera setting and set up the white balance, EV, and others so that the exposures will be so off the wall that it looks like the camera has a major failure. Take a few photos around the house spouse, the dog, cat, whatever, then start yelling and screaming that your camera has died. Show her the photos while whimpering and shedding some fake tears.
> 
> You're welcome.


HAHA Amazing! This is the answer guys. We did it!


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## padam (Jun 5, 2020)

gatabo said:


> Both cards with UHS-II
> It's Sony privilege to cripple memory card slots


Sony does not do it anymore, Fuji also did it in the previous gen, and Olympus still does it even in their flagship model.
Since the camera only has 20 megapixels, it may not be a big hindrance but the technology is more than there, so yes, dual UHS-II would be more logical, I just know Canon used to only provide one card slot in this class, so I though they would do it this way the first time round to save as much cost as possible.


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## 1D4 (Jun 5, 2020)

Does this mean the RF 100-500 won't be announced at the same time, or is that still on the table?


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## jam05 (Jun 5, 2020)

Basically free your card up. Ya got 30 days


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## Kit. (Jun 5, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> Really? AFAIK the number of 40+MP is speculation. Never confirmed. Certainly not by Canon.


DCI 8K *RAW* was confirmed by Canon, if I remember correctly.


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## Del Paso (Jun 5, 2020)

slclick said:


> Camera Owner: "No, that's not a new camera, I just cleaned it."
> Spouse: "Why are you taking pictures of that other camera and looking at Ebay all the time?"


My wife wouldn't even notice if I bought a new camera, I could even tell her it's a used Canon Kodak Brownie (no kidding).
But: if I bought a new cheap kitchen utensil, she'd immediately notice.
Of course, a few weeks later, looking at the bank statement, I'd face very hard times...


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## captainkanji (Jun 5, 2020)

I’ve been getting Zeiss Planar Classic lenses for half their original price in mint condition. A drop in EF glass prices is very welcome indeed.


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## unfocused (Jun 5, 2020)

I’m surprised it will be available so soon after the announcement. Smart move on Canon’s part. They will spend the next six months filling pre-orders at full retail price and anyone who wants one will feel like they better get their order in on the day of the announcement or wait until 2021.


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## Doug7131 (Jun 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> DCI 8K *RAW* was confirmed by Canon, if I remember correctly.


They have comfirmed 8K RAW but not the specific resolution. There is no such thing as 8K DCI. The current DCI standards do not address 8K.


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## neurorx (Jun 5, 2020)

Nelu said:


> I have both the 1-DX Mark III and the EOS-R and the 1-DX files are no cleaner than the EOS-R ones, I can assure you. Plus, the resolution is 50% lower so...


How is the low light performance of your R? I am waiting for the R5 to decide it vs a 1DX3 or Sony a9II. I know these are very different cameras, but I am trying to prioritize bodies? I have a 5D3 and its a bit slow for sports and low light is very limiting. I had the 5D4 at launch, but sent it back because at the time it was 1500 USD more than it is now. I shoot a bit of everything sports, wildlife and portraits.

Is the processor for the R5 going to be DIGIC X or something different?


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## Mechanical_EYE (Jun 5, 2020)

derpderp said:


> First dibs on 1 of each, thanks!


 I'm already in line!


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## herein2020 (Jun 5, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> The solution is simple...
> Go to your camera setting and set up the white balance, EV, and others so that the exposures will be so off the wall that it looks like the camera has a major failure. Take a few photos around the house spouse, the dog, cat, whatever, then start yelling and screaming that your camera has died. Show her the photos while whimpering and shedding some fake tears.
> 
> You're welcome.



You are making it way too complicated....so many simpler ways:


Just take the battery out and say it won't turn on
Switch the lens to manual focus, set the focus point to 1" away, let her take a picture with it and let her tell you it is broken (reverse psychology)
Switch the SD card to read only and let her watch the whole camera lock up after taking a picture
Format the SD card as NTFS and achieve the same results as option 3 above
Just buy the camera and a dozen roses at the same time, unbox the camera while she's looking for a vase then throw out the box with the stems from the flowers
If you already have an EOS-R or RP she won't have a clue that this is even a new camera so you don't have to do anything

Not that I have ever done any of these things before...I'm just trying to help everyone else out. The more cameras everyone buys the more cameras Canon will make for all of us.


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## carina_r31 (Jun 5, 2020)

neurorx said:


> Is the processor for the R5 going to be DIGIC X or something different?



In the discussion of another article here, there was a link in which was said that the processor was completely new developed


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## BillB (Jun 5, 2020)

neurorx said:


> Is the processor for the R5 going to be DIGIC X or something different?


It will be DIGIC X, but DIGIC X can have different configurations. From what Canon has already said, the R5 will have a lot of processing power.


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## TAF (Jun 5, 2020)

And still no pricing information...I just want to know how long I have to save up after the release.


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## carina_r31 (Jun 5, 2020)

TAF said:


> And still no pricing information...I just want to know how long I have to save up after the release.


Me too. I'll purchase at the end of the year or so (hoping for trade-in and cashback in winter like the years before). And I cant' wait for the full specs. This is going to be a big camera upgrade for me and I'm excited for it since I had the EOS R in my hands for the first time last year


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## Jonathan Thill (Jun 5, 2020)

TAF said:


> And still no pricing information...I just want to know how long I have to save up after the release.


It is going to be under 4K USD as stated many times. So save 4K USD and if it is cheaper buy another CF Express card.


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## padam (Jun 5, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> They have comfirmed 8K RAW but not the specific resolution. There is no such thing as 8K DCI. The current DCI standards do not address 8K.


It the exact same 1.9:1 aspect ratio as they've used in the past with 4K DCI, just multiply the width and height by two (8192 x 4320)


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## Nelu (Jun 5, 2020)

neurorx said:


> How is the low light performance of your R? I am waiting for the R5 to decide it vs a 1DX3 or Sony a9II. I know these are very different cameras, but I am trying to prioritize bodies? I have a 5D3 and its a bit slow for sports and low light is very limiting. I had the 5D4 at launch, but sent it back because at the time it was 1500 USD more than it is now. I shoot a bit of everything sports, wildlife and portraits.
> 
> Is the processor for the R5 going to be DIGIC X or something different?


The "low light performance" like AF performance or the noise?
I'm extremely happy with both on my EOS-R. The only issue I have is the EVF when shooting very fast action, like BIF. For this reason I bought the Olympus EE-1 Dot Sight and that took care of the problem.
I was also comparing the 1-DX III to my first-generation 1-DX and while the Mark III files look better at higher ISO, the difference is not striking, if that's what you expect. I would say, maybe one stop difference.
The AF on the new 1-DX is vastly improved though, compared to the first generation.
Now, get this: yesterday I was playing with stacked teleconverters on my EOS-R and my 1-DX Mark III. The TC's are the latest Canon generation (1.4x and 2x).
Of course, I had to use a 12mm extension tube to stack them.

To my huge surprise, the EOS-R was way better to achive focus and to keep it. Go figure!
When, and that is a big "When", the 1-DX Mark III focused on the subject, it worked really well but the EOS-R was much, much more consistent and accurate.
If this is what the image sensor based AF means, then the R5 will be a beast of a camera.

Anyhow, the 1-DX Mark III AF is a pleasure to work with in any other conditions.


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## deleteme (Jun 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> DCI 8K *RAW* was confirmed by Canon, if I remember correctly.


Yes, but not still image resolution. 40+MP was inferred but not articulated.


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## gbc (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


I've been planting the seeds since at least xmas, through my birthday, and up to now. Much better to start when the camera purchase is just theoretical, and then when it's out you can say "I've been saving for MONTHS for this! This is the camera I've literally been waiting YEARS for!" (which also happens to be true).


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## David_E (Jun 5, 2020)

amorse said:


> _Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers._


My wife _wants_ me to have a new camera. “Seems like you haven’t had a new camera in a long while.” “Yeah, that’s because they quit makin’ ‘em. But rumor is there will be something hot coming out in July.” “Ooh! Buy it!”


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## Kit. (Jun 5, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> They have comfirmed 8K RAW but not the specific resolution. There is no such thing as 8K DCI. The current DCI standards do not address 8K.


OK, what was actually confirmed was:


> No crop 8K and 4K video capture using the full-width of the sensor.*
> *When in 8K RAW, 8K/4K DCI modes.





Normalnorm said:


> Yes, but not still image resolution. 40+MP was inferred but not articulated.


Well, while it might be theoretically possible for it to have a _panoramic stills_ sensor to match FoV (and pixel count) of a 8K video, practically that would be weird.


----------



## Andy Westwood (Jun 5, 2020)

Canon appear to be keeping very tight lipped on these new cameras re the full spec and price, other than Canon’s own few titbits they have feed to us, leaks appear very few and far between.

Given the stalled launch of those cameras because of the virus and given there must be warehouses full of these cameras boxed and ready to ship all over the world, tested and trailed to the hilt, those in the know (and there must be many) are sadly not letting much slip to rumour sites such as here this time around.


----------



## David_E (Jun 5, 2020)

slclick said:


> _You must be referring to the 6. The 5 rez is a known number_.


Where has Canon published that specification?


----------



## slclick (Jun 5, 2020)

Crippling, here we go again.

Do other manufacturers get accused of this so called (misleading name) crippling? Are there endless pages upon pages of Sony, Nikon and Fuji threads about crippling? AFAIK it's only used by people who don't know what they are talking about and don't understand differentiation and marketing.


----------



## slclick (Jun 5, 2020)

David_E said:


> Where has Canon published that specification?


Yeah maybe it was just all the endless threads on the maths behind the possible number due to the 8k factor and sensor size and all the PHD's here were certain it was between 44ish and 45ish. (You say something enough times....)


----------



## Howard (Jun 5, 2020)

This is like Christmas, only better!!


----------



## brad-man (Jun 5, 2020)

slclick said:


> Crippling, here we go again.
> 
> Do other manufacturers get accused of this so called (misleading name) crippling? Are there endless pages upon pages of Sony, Nikon and Fuji threads about crippling? AFAIK it's only used by people who don't know what they are talking about and don't understand differentiation and marketing.


Canon is quite effective at crippling. They've done it to my AmEx on several occasions....


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 6, 2020)

RBSfphoto said:


> depends what you use it for not everyone shoots wildlife  I have been a professional with my sole income being photography for 30 + years, have never owned a wildlife lens , and for that matter only ever shot one wedding, but I do want this camera asap



Yes I should have been more clear that it doesn’t hit me yet. I am excited to see these new cameras. But until their is native lenses for my subjects then it is just tech lust.


----------



## canonmike (Jun 6, 2020)

sobrien said:


> I’m wondering if I could get away with selling my R and getting an R5 and R6 and get away with just the R6 being new


Absolutely, as long as you don't share credit cards or checking accts with your spouse. LOL! Good luck.....


----------



## BillB (Jun 6, 2020)

slclick said:


> Crippling, here we go again.
> 
> Do other manufacturers get accused of this so called (misleading name) crippling? Are there endless pages upon pages of Sony, Nikon and Fuji threads about crippling? AFAIK it's only used by people who don't know what they are talking about and don't understand differentiation and marketing.


Some people need to blame somebody when their fantasies don’t become reality.


----------



## Adelino (Jun 6, 2020)

carina_r31 said:


> In the discussion of another article here, there was a link in which was said that the processor was completely new developed


In Canon speak that could mean slightly modified for mirrorless ( I am hopeful). They said the same thing about the RP sensor re the 6DII.


----------



## geffy (Jun 6, 2020)

Well i guess the time until the price drop will let me see if there are any problems with it and whether my use of the R1 is enough to buy it given the decreasing returns from my photography, the new dell is looking like a better investment as more of my stock is video, could even be three years the way things are going before a purchase


----------



## Adelino (Jun 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> Can anyone predict if the R6 will be small like RF? Or does anyone know? If yes, I will sell my RF while I can still get a good price and update with R6. THXXX


I think Canon rumors guy said it will be RP like but pudgier? I could be very wrong though. It's supposed to have the bigger battery so that should make it thicker.


----------



## mpb001 (Jun 6, 2020)

It would be great if Canon used the same body as the R5 for the R6. Sort of a Sony type move. Maybe less weather sealing on the R6. I know that they said the R6 won’t have a top LCD panel but it is supposed to use the same battery as the R5?


----------



## davo (Jun 6, 2020)

Well, we have a month to wait....so in the meantime why don't we talk about..oh I don't know.....0h! I know .....lets talk about politics!


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 6, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> Canon is doing a great job keeping the lid on the resolution and the price. Two numbers that loom large in the imagination.



8K and 4K respectively


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jun 6, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Shooting wildlife I recently learned from a guy who had a new 1D X III, that its low light performance is really impressive. So I hope the R6 will serve stills shooters looking for clean images @ high ISOs about the same way. Not everyone wants a big dual grip camera body.


As the R5 will most definitely be out of my price range I am seriously considering the R6 as a complimentary body for my 7d2. I know I lose a lot of pixels on target but the low light performance may make it worthwhile while also giving me a camera that will massively outshine the 7d2 for Aurora photography. It is looking like a very interesting body but I will have to wait to find out what the AF, viewfinder and build quality are like


----------



## HeavyPiper (Jun 6, 2020)

Well I'm back now at my part time job this month so hopefully time will pass faster as we wait.


----------



## deleteme (Jun 6, 2020)

Kit. said:


> OK, what was actually confirmed was:
> 
> 
> Well, while it might be theoretically possible for it to have a _panoramic stills_ sensor to match FoV (and pixel count) of a 8K video, practically that would be weird.


I don't dispute what is probably the correct inference but noting that they still did not confirm it when it could have been very easy to do so.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Well, while it might be theoretically possible for it to have a _panoramic stills_ sensor to match FoV (and pixel count) of a 8K video, practically that would be weird.



Or it was argued that 'DCI' only applies to '4K' part of '8K/4K DCI'. So it reads as '8K and 4K DCI', not '8K DCI and 4K DCI'.

Because of that, I'm still not 100% convinced the camera will have 45Mp. I really hope it will, I'll probably make a preorder in this case. 39Mp? meh, I don't know, will probably wait for R5s.


----------



## scottkinfw (Jun 6, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Can't wait!


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Or it was argued that 'DCI' only applies to '4K' part of '8K/4K DCI'. So it reads as '8K and 4K DCI', not '8K DCI and 4K DCI'.
> 
> Because of that, I'm still not 100% convinced the camera will have 45Mp. I really hope it will, I'll probably make a preorder in this case. 39Mp? meh, I don't know, will probably wait for R5s.


So if it is 4K DCI what does that equate to in terms of mp?


----------



## sanj (Jun 6, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> So if it is 4K DCI what does that equate to in terms of mp?


Can you please educate me on 'DCI'?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> Can you please educate me on 'DCI'?





Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) - DIGITAL CINEMA SYSTEM SPECIFICATION


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jun 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> Can you please educate me on 'DCI'?


I am not a film maker so I am pretty hopeless on these things but I think that DCI is a wider format(basically what cinema film is usually done in?. So if it uses the full width of the sensor and and say 8k dci was 30mp(arbitrary number) then the FF sensor that the DCI was being taken from would actually be more mp on top of that


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> So if it is 4K DCI what does that equate to in terms of mp?



Standard 8K is 7680px on the longest side, which, given the 3:2 aspect ratio, makes the total resolution of at least 39.3mp.

8K DCI is an extended 8K with 8192px on the longest side, which translates to at least 44.7mp on a FF sensor.
So it's very important if R5 is just 8K or 8K DCI.

4K DCI as such puts a lower limit of 11.1mp so not really telling us much. Some people argue that in order to produce 4K DCI and use all uncropped sensor, it's more efficient to have 8192 pixels and then do pixel binning or pixel skipping so that it converts to 4096px. But it's a speculation that goes too far IMO and doesn't prove anything.

PS. There was also a promo video in German, which allegedly claims you can extract 39mp stills from 8K video. If that's true and accurate, it'll translate to 44.9mp of the whole sensor, because the video frame is narrower than 3:2.
Again a speculation based on indirect evidence.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Standard 8K is 7680px on the longest side, which, given the 3:2 aspect ratio, makes the total resolution of at least 39.3mp.
> 
> 8K DCI is an extended 8K with 8192px on the longest side, which translates to at least 44.7mp on a FF sensor.
> So it's very important if R5 is just 8K or 8K DCI.
> ...


Cheers. Great answer. So the likelihood is if 8k DCI then 44.7mp and if only 4kDCI then likelihood is 39.3mp?
Oops. Nope. Correction. If only 4kDCI then 39.3 OR 44.7mp is equally possible depending on how they choose to work it?


----------



## wolf (Jun 6, 2020)

Is this a CR3 statement?


----------



## drob (Jun 6, 2020)

Any lenses supposed to be announced too?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> If only 4kDCI then 39.3 OR 44.7mp is equally possible depending on how they choose to work it?



My guess is, because Canon claims 4K DCI uses the full width of the sensor, it makes 44.7mp more _probable_  but not certain. Due to Bayer filters used in Canon sensors, the easiest way (but not the best in terms of the image quality) to get both 8KDCI and 4K DCI will be to skip pixels by 2 over 2, like this:

0, 1, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, 16, 17...

There's also pixel binning technique where they would merge data from groups of pixels, it's also easier to do if the sensor has 8192px.

If that's the case, 4K DCI implies 8K DCI and therefore, 44.7mp pixel count.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

edoorn said:


> 4 is a weekend day anyway, but I can see July 1 not being a suitable one then. 1DX III announcement was on a Monday, to be more precise: the 6th. So I'd say July 6.



On the other hand, a lot of Canon release announcements seem to happen on Thursdays. Maybe it's because Friday is "payday" in many places and folks living in those cultures are more inclined to spend on Friday, even if they don't personally get paid weekly or bi-weekly on Fridays. This includes the largest market, in terms of annual sales, in the world for ILCs. That puts July 2 right on the money.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

PhotoRN86 said:


> Wait a min... so the R5 and R6 will be released about the same time as one another?



That has always been more or less the plan. The announcements seem to have been originally planned staggered in May and June, but with both available in late July.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

edoorn said:


> speculation, but it could make sense. Minimum is 33mpix, that's a given.



More than 33 MP. 8K DCI, which has been officially confirmed by Canon, is 8,192 pixels wide. Convert that to 3:2 and increase the width slightly so that both horizontal and vertical resolutions are divisible by 16 (for more efficient JPEG compression with fewer artifacts) and you get 8,208 x 5,472 = 44.9 MP. Plus the edge pixels needed for color interpolation on the edge of the output resolution and masked pixels.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

art sanchez said:


> @Canon Rumors Guy Is there any chance to see an updated M5 and M50 bodies coming in July too?



Probably early fall releases, which is when Canon likes to introduce consumer oriented cameras just before the holiday season gets rolling.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Not really sure what we are waiting on at this point. Tomorrow is just as good as sometime in July to announce it unless they are holding off for the virus to come to an end(which could be another six months). Ether way it will be interesting to get a glimpse at what is coming up next, even if it wont matter until wildlife lenses come out.



You've never studied marketing strategy, have you?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> It will more than that. Depending on the horizontal resolution of the 8K mode (I don't think this information has been released) you have two minimum resolutions the R5 could have:
> 8K UHD - 7680 pixels wide gives a minimum of 39.3MP
> "DCI" 8K - 8192 pixels wide gives a minimum of 44.7MP



Canon confirmed 8K DCI in their March announcement that was originally planned to take place at the video-centric NAB trade show.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

padam said:


> It is surely going to be a bit bigger then the RP, as it uses the same LP-E6NH battery as the R5
> And it also has the dual card slots (likely dual SD, maybe one is UHS-I and the other UHS-II), probably moved away from the battery as well.
> But it won't have the full metal chassis, so I suspect, it may be slightly lighter than the R even with the IBIS, maybe around 600g CIPA rate.
> 
> It will be over 2000$, so it won't affect the RP's 1000$ pricing in any way.



If both slots are SD, they'll both run the same bus. Canon uses disparate card slots when they want to give users the choice of using their older legacy cards in a different form factor than the newer, faster cards. With UHS-II, both slots will be backwards compatible, at slower speeds of course, with UHS-I and even non-UHS cards. No need to put two different type slots in the same camera.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Nelu said:


> I have both the 1-DX Mark III and the EOS-R and the 1-DX files are no cleaner than the EOS-R ones, I can assure you. Plus, the resolution is 50% lower so...



It all depends upon your post processing skills. 

I've seen high ISO output from the 1D X Mark III that looked pretty ho-hum because NR was crudely applied with a blunt instrument. I've also seen high ISO output from the 1D X Mark III that was mighty impressive because the user who post processed it knew what they were doing and got a cleaner file than anyone can get with a 5D Mark IV/EOS R at the same ISO in the same shooting conditions.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> They have comfirmed 8K RAW but not the specific resolution. There is no such thing as 8K DCI. The current DCI standards do not address 8K.



Technically, you are correct. But everyone in the industry refers to 8,196 wide as 8K DCI. 

Canon would not be so stupid as to announce a camera can shoot at "8K DCI" and then release a camera that shoots video that is only 7,680 pixels wide!


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Canon would not be so stupid as to announce a camera can shoot at "8K DCI" and then release a camera that shoots video that is only 7,680 pixels wide!



They wouldn't be so stupid, but I haven't seen an announcement from Canon that unambiguously claims 8K DCI.
As in the comments above, the promise was '8K/4K DCI'.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It all depends upon your post processing skills.
> 
> I've seen high ISO output from the 1D X Mark III that looked pretty ho-hum because NR was crudely applied with a blunt instrument. I've also seen high ISO output from the 1D X Mark III that was mighty impressive because the user who post processed it knew what they were doing and got a cleaner file than anyone can get with a 5D Mark IV/EOS R at the same ISO in the same shooting conditions.



Camera ModelLow Light
ISO

Canon EOS 1D X Mark II5189Canon EOS 1D X Mark III4915

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV5011



Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting



so.. IDxII somewhat better than 5DIV at low light ISO and 5dIV somewhat better than 1DxIII.
the difference is negligible though, as you can see.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

neurorx said:


> How is the low light performance of your R? I am waiting for the R5 to decide it vs a 1DX3 or Sony a9II. I know these are very different cameras, but I am trying to prioritize bodies? I have a 5D3 and its a bit slow for sports and low light is very limiting. I had the 5D4 at launch, but sent it back because at the time it was 1500 USD more than it is now. I shoot a bit of everything sports, wildlife and portraits.
> 
> Is the processor for the R5 going to be DIGIC X or something different?



If Nelu can't tell the difference in high ISO performance between the sensor in the 5D Mark IV/EOS R and the sensor in the 1D X Mark III, you're probably asking the wrong person that question.


Adelino said:


> In Canon speak that could mean slightly modified for mirrorless ( I am hopeful). They said the same thing about the RP sensor re the 6DII.



And the 5D Mark IV sensor when they put it in the EOS R...

And the 18 MP APS-C sensor when they put it in a gazillion different cameras...


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

geffy said:


> Well i guess the time until the price drop will let me see if there are any problems with it and whether my use of the R1 is enough to buy it given the decreasing returns from my photography, the new dell is looking like a better investment as more of my stock is video, could even be three years the way things are going before a purchase



You're currently using an R1? Where'd you get it? Didn't you have to sign a super-secret-squirrel NDA? Or did you just use your time machine to go into the future and pick one up? In which case you probably just broke an even more super-secret-squirrel NDA!


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Or it was argued that 'DCI' only applies to '4K' part of '8K/4K DCI'. So it reads as '8K and 4K DCI', not '8K DCI and 4K DCI'.
> 
> Because of that, I'm still not 100% convinced the camera will have 45Mp. I really hope it will, I'll probably make a preorder in this case. 39Mp? meh, I don't know, will probably wait for R5s.



Meh. The difference between 8,208 x 5,472 (got to make both sides divisible by 16 for efficient JPEG compression) and 7,680 x 5,120 is only the difference between photosites 4.39µm and 4.69µm wide. That's less than 7% in terms of linear resolution.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> My guess is, because Canon claims 4K DCI uses the full width of the sensor, it makes 44.7mp more _probable_  but not certain. Due to Bayer filters used in Canon sensors, the easiest way (but not the best in terms of the image quality) to get both 8KDCI and 4K DCI will be to skip pixels by 2 over 2, like this:
> 
> 0, 1, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, 16, 17...
> 
> ...



While you're at it, make both sides of the 3:2 sensor divisible by 16 for efficient JPEG compression with fewer artifacts. So 8,208 x 5,472 = 44,914,176.

The video will use 8,196/8,208 = 99.85% of the sensor width, which is close enough to "full" when one must consider that there will also be several rows of pixels beyond 8,208 x5,472 on each edge that are needed for interpolating color information on the edges of the output, as well as a few rows of masked pixels.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Meh. The difference between 8,208 x 5,472 (got to make both sides divisible by 16 for efficient JPEG compression) and 7,680 x 5,120 is only the difference between photosites 4.39µm and 4.69µm wide. That's less than 7% in terms of linear resolution.


Not sure if Canon is really concerned about efficient jpeg compression when they're scratching the limits of the sensor readout speeds. Also they're now pushing HEIF format.

But as to the point of 39mp goodness, I have 5DIV with 30mp, and a prospective upgrade to a 39mp camera doesn't sound very exciting in terms of landscape photography. 45mp is probably right about where my threshold of GAS sits.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Camera ModelLow Light
> ISO
> 
> Canon EOS 1D X Mark II5189Canon EOS 1D X Mark III4915
> ...



That's a number based on an arbitrary "line" above which everything is acceptable and below which nothing is acceptable. As one can see from the actual graphs, exactly where one draws the arbitrary "line" determines which camera does slightly better or worse because the measured performance lines criss-cross each other multiple times between ISO 100 and ISO 102,400.

What that type of test never reveals is how different processing algorithms from one camera model to the next in raw processing applications that photographers actually use to process their photos can also affect what the final output looks like. Those tests can also be very sensitive to the differences in copy variation between two supposedly "identical" sensors with regard to how many defective pixels each one actually has (and they all have some - that's why pixel mapping is performed on every single camera at the factory), where on the sensor they are located, and what color filter is in front of each of them.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Not sure if Canon is really concerned about efficient jpeg compression when they're scratching the limits of the sensor readout speeds. Also they're now pushing HEIF format.
> 
> But as to the point of 39mp goodness, I have 5DIV with 30mp, and a prospective upgrade to a 39mp camera doesn't sound very exciting in terms of landscape photography. 45mp is probably right about where my threshold of GAS sits.



Using blocks divisible by 16 greatly reduces the number of artifacts due to JPEG compression. For video this is not so crucial, but for stills it is. Canon has never released an EOS camera in any format that does not have a sensor with both sides divisible by 16. HEIF also uses compression. Due to the way HEIF compresses image data, using blocks divisible by 16, or at a bare minimum divisible by 8, is probably even more critical for HEIF than JPEG, but I've not looked at HEIF in detail.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> While you're at it, make both sides of the 3:2 sensor divisible by 16 for efficient JPEG compression with fewer artifacts. So 8,208 x 5,472 = 44,914,176.



I think jpeg inefficiency would mean just marginally larger jpeg files (marfinally worse compression rate) which may not be a big deal.

Yes they'll also need a number of rows of shadowed pixels but I don't know if they include them in the official specs. For 8K DCI they need to have at least 8192 active pixels on the longest side, maybe more for jpeg compression as you said.

That really is insignificant; 44.7 or 44.9mp doesn't matter much to me. 39mp would be disappointing...


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Camera ModelLow Light
> ISO
> 
> Canon EOS 1D X Mark II5189Canon EOS 1D X Mark III4915
> ...



Look also at shadow improvement and read noise. Shadow improvement shows that the 1D X Mark III is more ISO invariant than the previous models, and read noise should be self explanatory. Lower is better on both charts.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I think jpeg inefficiency would mean just marginally larger jpeg files (marfinally worse compression rate) which may not be a big deal.
> 
> Yes they'll also need a number of rows of shadowed pixels but I don't know if they include them in the official specs. For 8K DCI they need to have at least 8192 active pixels on the longest side, maybe more for jpeg compression as you said.
> 
> That really is insignificant; 44.7 or 44.9mp doesn't matter much to me. 39mp would be disappointing...



Again, for whatever reasons, every EOS sensor Canon has ever produced has both sides divisible by 16 at maximum still image resolution. I doubt they'll stray from that any time soon.

Now let the "cripple hammer" cries begin because Canon promised "full width" and then delivered a 1.00146X crop factor for 8K video!


----------



## J9canon (Jun 6, 2020)

Would you guys be fine with the 1DX ii sensor on the R6? I think that is a safe assumption to make.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Using blocks divisible by 16 greatly reduces the number of artifacts due to JPEG compression.



For which I think they just add padding pixels to the edges. That has a minor impact on the compression rate.




Michael Clark said:


> Canon has never released an EOS camera in any format that does not have a sensor with both sides divisible by 16.



Hmm that may be related to the technicalities of the sensor design, not jpeg compression. Although in this case your calculations of the R5 image size are still valid.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

J9canon said:


> Would you guys be fine with the 1DX ii sensor on the R6? I think that is a safe assumption to make.



I've suggested the same before, though I do not remember if it was on this thread or on others (probably both). That suggestion was roundly criticized, but I wouldn't be surprised. There does not seem to be much, if any, difference in the actual sensor hardware between the 1D Mark II and 1D X Mark III other than the different low-pass/anti-aliasing filter in front of them. What marginal differences there are seem to be more along the lines of how the analog signal is processed before it gets to the ADC. That and improved raw conversion algorithms, at least with Canon's JPEG engine in the camera and within their own Digital Photo Professional. What algorithms third party raw convertors use for any sensor is entirely up to the third party that produces the application.

Any EF mount sensor used in an RF mount body will get new microlens arrays in front of the actual sensor chip to account for the different angles of incidence on the edges and in the corners of light coming from the shorter registration distance for wider angle lenses. That's why the 5D Mark IV sensor used in the EOS R was a "new"sensor. Ditto for the 6D Mark II sensor used in the EOS RP.


----------



## koenkooi (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I think jpeg inefficiency would mean just marginally larger jpeg files (marfinally worse compression rate) which may not be a big deal.
> [..]



The hardware JPEG engine needs to be a lot more complex if you allow for images that don't have sides divisible by 16. And if you do a naive implementation to save memory, it will throw of memory and cache access making the while pipeline do the computer equivalent of stuttering.

And for people paying attention at home: 1080 isn't divisible by 16, ever wondered why there's a coloured line at the bottom of a video sometimes?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

btw jpeg actually uses blocks of 8x8 pixels.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> For which I think they just add padding pixels to the edges. That has a minor impact on the compression rate.



It has nothing to do with compression _rate_. It has to do with compression _efficiency_, as in how many compression artifacts the results demonstrate. A more efficient compression process can produce smaller files with the same image quality as a less efficient compression process can produce making larger final files (assuming the scene content/raw image data is identical).



Quarkcharmed said:


> Hmm that may be related to the technicalities of the sensor design, not jpeg compression. Although in this case your calculations of the R5 image size are still valid.



The reason they use output dimensions divisible by 16 is all about compression efficiency. There are tons of white papers and other scholarly resources that discuss this for compression in general, not just as it is implemented by Canon.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> The hardware JPEG engine needs to be a lot more complex if you allow for images that don't have sides divisible by 16. And if you do a naive implementation to save memory, it will throw of memory and cache access making the while pipeline do the computer equivalent of stuttering.



Adding padding fake pixels will make the h/w stutter?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> btw jpeg actually uses blocks of 8x8 pixels.



8 X 8 is the absolute minimum for JPEG, but many camera makers use 16x16.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Adding padding fake pixels will make the h/w stutter?



They don't add any "fake pixels". They add actual hardware photosites to the sensor outside the edges of the output resolution because color interpolation is done using surrounding photosites, both those that are filtered by the same color as the photosite that corresponds to the pixel on the edge of the output image as well as those that are filtered by different colors than the photosite in question. If a demosaicing algorithm uses three rows of photosites in all four directions to interpolate colors for the output pixel representing a particular photosite, then the sensor needs three rows of additional photosites on all four sides of the sensor beyond the number of rows and columns output in the final image. If a demosaicing algorithm uses five rows of photosites in all four directions, then the sensor needs five rows of additional photosites on all four sides, and so on.

Demosaicing algorithms to do color interpolation have nothing to do with compression algorithms. Those are two entirely separate things in the processing pipeline.

After demosaicing (including color channel multiplication for color temperature and white balance correction, gamma processing/light curves are applied) is done, there is an uncompressed image file that has RGB values for every pixel in the output resolution. Uncompressed TIFF files are one form that represents these individual RGB values for each pixel. Then whatever image file compression scheme used is applied to the uncompressed RGB values for each image pixel.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> The hardware JPEG engine needs to be a lot more complex if you allow for images that don't have sides divisible by 16. And if you do a naive implementation to save memory, it will throw of memory and cache access making the while pipeline do the computer equivalent of stuttering.
> 
> And for people paying attention at home: 1080 isn't divisible by 16, ever wondered why there's a coloured line at the bottom of a video sometimes?




Also, if you are preparing an image for print and are cropping it, if you crop it to dimensions divisible by at least 8, if not 16, it will reduce scaling errors by the printer. Even better if you can provide image dimensions that are divisible by both 8 or 16 and at the printer's native ppi (not dpi - that's an entirely different subject) for the size you are printing.


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## edoorn (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> More than 33 MP. 8K DCI, which has been officially confirmed by Canon, is 8,192 pixels wide. Convert that to 3:2 and increase the width slightly so that both horizontal and vertical resolutions are divisible by 16 (for more efficient JPEG compression with fewer artifacts) and you get 8,208 x 5,472 = 44.9 MP. Plus the edge pixels needed for color interpolation on the edge of the output resolution and masked pixels.



Well, would be happy with that. 45 mpix sounds like a good allround resolution I could easily use for both events/weddings (maybe even in half sized mraw), and commercial and wildlife images for print. Still new to video so probably won’t touch 8k raw for now but 4k 10 bit log and full functioning dual pixel af even with 120 fps sounds great.
I hope they don’t forget the option to create 8k timelapse clips in-camera. Would be great for creating pans and zooms in post for final 4k output


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## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

edoorn said:


> Well, would be happy with that. 45 mpix sounds like a good allround resolution I could easily use for both events/weddings (maybe even in half sized mraw), and commercial and wildlife images for print. Still new to video so probably won’t touch 8k raw for now but 4k 10 bit log and full functioning dual pixel af even with 120 fps sounds great.
> I hope they don’t forget the option to create 8k timelapse clips in-camera. Would be great for creating pans and zooms in post for final 4k output



None of the newer Canon cameras with .cr3 output that offer the C-Raw option have M-RAW or S-RAW options. Apparently M-RAW and S-RAW ended with .cr2.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It has nothing to do with compression _rate_. It has to do with compression _efficiency_



If you add padding pixels to align with 8x8 or 16x16 grid, you make the compression rate of unaligned images slighlty worse compared to the images that were aligned from the beginning.



Michael Clark said:


> They don't add any "fake pixels".



In jpeg compression, they do add padding pixels. Simply because jpeg algorithm is based on 8x8 chunks and not all the images are aligned to 8x8 chunks. Where does 16 come from I don't know, I trust you it's also related to jpeg, I'm not really into this matter tbh.



Michael Clark said:


> They add actual hardware photosites to the sensor outside the edges of the output resolution because color interpolation is done using surrounding photosites



Yes, but we were talking about the jpeg compression. You're now saying there are other technical reasons to align the sensor pixel dimensions to 16x16 - that's fine, my point was that


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## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> If you add padding pixels to align with 8x8 or 16x16 grid, you make the compression rate of unaligned images slighlty worse compared to the images that were aligned from the beginning.



If you have source files that are divisible by 8x8 or 16x16 you don't need to add any padding pixels, do you?



Quarkcharmed said:


> In jpeg compression, they do add padding pixels. Simply because jpeg algorithm is based on 8x8 chunks and not all the images are aligned to 8x8 chunks. Where does 16 come from I don't know, I trust you it's also related to jpeg, I'm not really into this matter tbh.



If you have source files that are divisible by 8x8 or 16x16 you don't need to add any padding pixels, do you?



Quarkcharmed said:


> Yes, but we were talking about the jpeg compression. You're now saying there are other technical reasons to align the sensor pixel dimensions to 16x16 - that's fine, my point was that



If you have source files that are divisible by 8x8 or 16x16 you don't need to add any padding pixels, do you?


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## Stig Nygaard (Jun 6, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> They have comfirmed 8K RAW but not the specific resolution. There is no such thing as 8K DCI. The current DCI standards do not address 8K.



I think everyone agrees that if you are calling it "DCI", it means the horizontal resolution must be a multiply of 1024.
I'm surprised this is still discussed. It is as close to be confirmed as it can be, without actually having been officially confirmed. If it is a 3:2 sensor (and it would be a big surprise if it isn't), then it must be 44.7 megapixels.


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## Stig Nygaard (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> They wouldn't be so stupid, but I haven't seen an announcement from Canon that unambiguously claims 8K DCI.
> As in the comments above, the promise was '8K/4K DCI'.



The asteriks-comment refered to says

"When in 8K RAW, 8K/4K DCI *modes*"

I cannot read that in any other way that 8K is DCI too.






Canon U.S.A., Inc. | Press Release Details







www.usa.canon.com


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## Michael Clark (Jun 6, 2020)

Stig Nygaard said:


> I think everyone agrees that if you are calling it "DCI", it means the horizontal resolution must be a multiply of 1024.
> I'm surprised this is still discussed. It is as close to be confirmed as it can be, without actually having been officially confirmed. If it is a 3:2 sensor (and it would be a big surprise if it isn't), then it must be 44.7 megapixels.



44.9 MP when you make it 8,208 x 5,472 so both sides of 3:2 still images are divisible by 16 like every other Canon EOS sensor ever made.


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## Stig Nygaard (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> 44.9 MP when you make it 8,208 x 5,472 so both sides of 3:2 still images are divisible by 16 like every other Canon EOS sensor ever made.



Oh well, maybe. You're probably right  I don't even know why we don't just write 45 megapixels. That's probably what Canon will call it anyway...


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## wockawocka (Jun 6, 2020)

Are any pro's going to buy this before the end of the year due to not having any business?


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## Kit. (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> They don't add any "fake pixels". They add actual hardware photosites to the sensor outside the edges of the output resolution because color interpolation is done using surrounding photosites, both those that are filtered by the same color as the photosite that corresponds to the pixel on the edge of the output image as well as those that are filtered by different colors than the photosite in question. If a demosaicing algorithm uses three rows of photosites in all four directions to interpolate colors for the output pixel representing a particular photosite, then the sensor needs three rows of additional photosites on all four sides of the sensor beyond the number of rows and columns output in the final image. If a demosaicing algorithm uses five rows of photosites in all four directions, then the sensor needs five rows of additional photosites on all four sides, and so on.


Wouldn't those extra hardware pixels also need to appear in the RAW file data?


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## koenkooi (Jun 6, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Wouldn't those extra hardware pixels also need to appear in the RAW file data?


 
RAW files already have 'additional' pixels, there's a border that is used for image housekeeping like black level calibration which doesn't show up in the resulting picture on your screen. 

That's why Canon spec pages have:

*Effective Pixels *Approx. 30.3 megapixels
*Total Pixels *Approx. 31.7 megapixels

So that 44.9MP, is it the total or effective number of pixels?


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If you have source files that are divisible by 8x8 or 16x16 you don't need to add any padding pixels, do you?



It's not such a big problem to add those padding pixels. Details of jpeg compression are unlikely to be the decisive factor for determining the sensor dimensions.

Some other factors could make them to be a multiple of 16, I don't argue that.



Michael Clark said:


> Demosaicing algorithms to do color interpolation have nothing to do with compression algorithms



But I never said they had.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Uncompressed TIFF files are one form that represents these individual RGB values for each pixel.



btw, I don't think camera works with tiff files internally, the demosaicing process you mentioned is only needed for jpeg generation and back-screen previews, it's not written to raw files which leave demosaicing to the processing software.
Internally the camera would have buffers with RGB data per pixel, but it won't convert them to tiff files, it's kinda meaningless. tiff file implies more data than just RGB per pixel, and that data isn't necessary for interim processing.


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## Whowe (Jun 6, 2020)

Nelu said:


> The "low light performance" like AF performance or the noise?
> I'm extremely happy with both on my EOS-R. The only issue I have is the EVF when shooting very fast action, like BIF. For this reason I bought the Olympus EE-1 Dot Sight and that took care of the problem.
> I was also comparing the 1-DX III to my first-generation 1-DX and while the Mark III files look better at higher ISO, the difference is not striking, if that's what you expect. I would say, maybe one stop difference.
> The AF on the new 1-DX is vastly improved though, compared to the first generation.
> ...


Did you try the 1DXiii in Live View mode? I believe that would allow it to use the same/similar focus system as the R5.


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## Whowe (Jun 6, 2020)

David_E said:


> My wife _wants_ me to have a new camera. “Seems like you haven’t had a new camera in a long while.” “Yeah, that’s because they quit makin’ ‘em. But rumor is there will be something hot coming out in July.” “Ooh! Buy it!”


And then David wakes up from his dream....


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## moshin109 (Jun 6, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"



Totally unrelated but I`m wondering what´s the fuss with buying the camera you want with your own money. I keep reading all this comments of asking "permission" to your wife to use your own money. Seems so ridiculous to me.

Man up people.

Back to photography, I really hope the R6 has sensor IS and is priced around 2000$, that will be great and I will buy it to replace my old 6D and my 80D.


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## Whowe (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Or it was argued that 'DCI' only applies to '4K' part of '8K/4K DCI'. So it reads as '8K and 4K DCI', not '8K DCI and 4K DCI'.
> 
> Because of that, I'm still not 100% convinced the camera will have 45Mp. I really hope it will, I'll probably make a preorder in this case. 39Mp? meh, I don't know, will probably wait for R5s.


But if they don't make the sensor for 8k DCI, wouldn't that make the down-sampling to full width 4K DCI much more difficult? If the sensor is built at 8K DCI resolution (i.e. double 4K in width and height) I would think the algorithm would be much easier and less processor intensive...


----------



## Tremotino (Jun 6, 2020)

Nelu said:


> The "low light performance" like AF performance or the noise?
> I'm extremely happy with both on my EOS-R. The only issue I have is the EVF when shooting very fast action, like BIF. For this reason I bought the Olympus EE-1 Dot Sight and that took care of the problem.
> I was also comparing the 1-DX III to my first-generation 1-DX and while the Mark III files look better at higher ISO, the difference is not striking, if that's what you expect. I would say, maybe one stop difference.
> The AF on the new 1-DX is vastly improved though, compared to the first generation.
> ...



Repeat te test in LiveView for the 1dx and you will be surprised.


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## Whowe (Jun 6, 2020)

Stig Nygaard said:


> The asteriks-comment refered to says
> 
> "When in 8K RAW, 8K/4K DCI *modes*"
> 
> ...


I agree. If the 8K was not going to refer to the "DCI Modes" it should have been separated by a comma (i.e. different item) not a "/" slash which infers an interchangeable item.


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## Whowe (Jun 6, 2020)

Not to add anymore fuel to the fire regarding pixel resolution, but....

Has there been any mention on digital stabilization? (I believe the R and RP bot include digital stabilization, but of course they don't have IBIS.) If they did implement digital stabilization also, wouldn't they have to increase the pixel rows and columns to support that? 

Obviously, I don't know much about this, but just curious...


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 6, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> As the R5 will most definitely be out of my price range I am seriously considering the R6 as a complimentary body for my 7d2. I know I lose a lot of pixels on target but the low light performance may make it worthwhile while also giving me a camera that will massively outshine the 7d2 for Aurora photography.


Regarding Auroras the R6 will definitely a substantial upgrade, even an old 5D3 would be. I use the 7D2 since many years. It was a real improvement at higher ISOs over the original 7D but it is now a 6 years old crop camera.


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## DBounce (Jun 6, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


I gave my girl my EOS R, so no excuses needed. I planned from back when I purchased the R to eventually pass it on to her and upgrade to the “Pro body”. I’m not sure this is the “Pro body”, but it’s closer to it than the R. I’ll be preordering for sure, R5 looks to be absolutely amazing. Canon is back!


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## Twinix (Jun 6, 2020)

I’m excited for it!


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## Nelu (Jun 6, 2020)

Tremotino said:


> Repeat te test in LiveView for the 1dx and you will be surprised.


Maybe, but using a DSLR in live view for fast moving subjects is not great, ergonomically.


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## londonxt (Jun 6, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"



Im sure its been done before, but Buy Now Pay Later.... spend the following interest free period happy snapping plus also desperately looking for a new partner.


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## peters (Jun 6, 2020)

wockawocka said:


> Are any pro's going to buy this before the end of the year due to not having any business?


I dont want to be to political, but here are my experiences and my opinion on that: At least in germany the business isnt that bad for professional photographers. Most companies are still running production and while the economy took a hit, its not like there is no need for commercial photo-work. product photos can be done in a studio just like before, so no problem there. Same for other commercial photorgaphy, brochures, flyers, architecture, etc.
Also by the middle of summer travel possibilities will be in europe completely back on track, so this is (in my opinion) another topic where the R5 could shine with the high resolution and small body 
Event photography is certainly not happening right know, especialy weddings. But some smaller weddings are allready starting to happen. By september (when the R5 likely will arrive in germany) I can see quite some more weddings to happen. The next season will also be most likely be twice as packed, we allready get inquiries for next year. I think the R5 will absolutely shine for weddings: perfect resolution (high, but not to high to be bad in low light), a handy body, canon colors and probably good ergonomics, most awesome lenses, silent shutter(!)... all these will be great for wedding photographers 
So overall the impact wasnt that devastating and by fall, when the R5 will be available in germany, I guess most photography businesses will be back to normal.

I will preorder a R5 as soon as possible. If it holds up my expectation I will sell my 5D IV, 1DX II, Sony A7R IV, Panasonic S1H, Gh5 and GH4 and replace these 6 cameras with just 3 R5 cameras  I expect it to replace all cameras equaly or even better in terms of photoquality AND videoquality


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Whowe said:


> But if they don't make the sensor for 8k DCI, wouldn't that make the down-sampling to full width 4K DCI much more difficult? If the sensor is built at 8K DCI resolution (i.e. double 4K in width and height) I would think the algorithm would be much easier and less processor intensive...


That's why I agree that 45mp in the R5 is probable, just not 100%.
There's still room for doubt. 4ex they may be just downsampling from normal non-DCI 8K to DCI 4K.


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## Whowe (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> That's why I agree that 45mp in the R5 is probable, just not 100%.
> There's still room for doubt. 4ex they may be just downsampling from normal non-DCI 8K to DCI 4K.


Agree. Nothing is know for sure until it is official.

One spec I am interested in but has not been confirmed or discussed much is the auto-focus system. Canon said something like "taken from the auto focus system in the 1DXiii..." but will it actually be the same auto focus system or will then reduce the capability somewhat to protect the 1DX for those that are really demanding on fast tracking (i.e. sports, wildlife)?


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I agree. If the 8K was not going to refer to the "DCI Modes" it should have been separated by a comma (i.e. different item) not a "/" slash which infers an interchangeable item.


It's just ambiguous, maybe even deliberately ambiguous. It can read as
(8K) / (4K DCI) or as (8K/4K) DCI. The slash can also mean a 'different item'. Would a comma in place of the slash fix the ambiguity? Not so much IMO as one would still argue DCI could apply to both 4K and 8K...

Why didn't they write '4K/8K DCI'?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 6, 2020)

Whowe said:


> Agree. Nothing is know for sure until it is official.
> 
> One spec I am interested in but has not been confirmed or discussed much is the auto-focus system. Canon said something like "taken from the auto focus system in the 1DXiii..." but will it actually be the same auto focus system or will then reduce the capability somewhat to protect the 1DX for those that are really demanding on fast tracking (i.e. sports, wildlife)?



That may be very hard to guess because it's not just one spec but lots of specs on autofocus. However Canon clams quite powerful autofocus for the R5, just hard to tell how it'd compare to the 1DXIII.

--------------------------------------
Head And Eye Detect
EOS R5 supports advanced autofocus – recognising not only people, but also dogs, cats and birds. The camera has the ability to focus on the eyes, face and body of the animal with pin-sharp detail.

https://www.canon.com.au/cameras/eos-r5


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## Wikzo (Jun 6, 2020)

Anyone knows good places to pre-order either R5 or R6 in Denmark / Europe?


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## Twinix (Jun 6, 2020)

Wikzo said:


> Anyone knows good places to pre-order either R5 or R6 in Denmark / Europe?


Foto.no in Norway has its official queue for the R5. https://butikk.foto.no/fotono-as/12...anon-eos-r5-vår-offisielle-kø-på-canon-eos-r5


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## Wikzo (Jun 6, 2020)

Twinix said:


> Foto.no in Norway has its official queue for the R5. https://butikk.foto.no/fotono-as/12...anon-eos-r5-vår-offisielle-kø-på-canon-eos-r5


Thanks. I just wrote them a mail asking if they are going to have pre-orders for R6 as well (and whether or not they ship to Denmark).

It looks like their prices are similar to Denmark. So, quite expensive when looking at prices in the UK or USA -_-


----------



## Pixel (Jun 6, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> So who is going to be the first one to get their hands on one


I have a secret method for getting one fast.


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## katysei (Jun 6, 2020)

Any speculation / info on the price of the eos-R6?


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## Doug7131 (Jun 6, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> It's just ambiguous, maybe even deliberately ambiguous. It can read as
> (8K) / (4K DCI) or as (8K/4K) DCI. The slash can also mean a 'different item'. Would a comma in place of the slash fix the ambiguity? Not so much IMO as one would still argue DCI could apply to both 4K and 8K...
> 
> Why didn't they write '4K/8K DCI'?


As I said before the reason for the ambiguous specs is that DCI have yet to publish any 8K standards. Canon cannot advertise a camera as being compliant with a standard that does not exist. However, the resolution of any future 8K DCI standard is almost guaranteed to be 8192x4320 so it’s very likely the R5 will be able to record in this resolution.


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## Phil (Jun 6, 2020)

masterpix said:


> Canon have learned the way to control the hype to their products! Way to go!


Canon finally have a camera to hype! Yay!


----------



## Eclipsed (Jun 6, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> So... wait and see again. Recycled drivel.



I prefer virgin drivel on my rumor discussion sites.


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## Rassmus (Jun 6, 2020)

What would you guys guess the R5 can do for fps in 1080? Prob higher or stay in 120?


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## PhotoRN86 (Jun 6, 2020)

Rassmus said:


> What would you guys guess the R5 can do for fps in 1080? Prob higher or stay in 120?



god I hope it still shoots 1080p, It should right!!? When I saw that the leaked specs for the R6 was 1080 @120 or was it 240? I was worried that was a sign the the R5 would not touch FullHD video and only 8k and 4K, please someone tell me they have the confidence that the R5 will still be able to shoot FULL HD and RAW... that would be dream, I miss the 5D Mkiii Magic Lantern Raw days... the FULL HD 14 bit RAW video was a DREAAAAAMMMMM


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## sanj (Jun 6, 2020)

It will certainly shoot 1080.


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## padam (Jun 6, 2020)

PhotoRN86 said:


> god I hope it still shoots 1080p, It should right!!? When I saw that the leaked specs for the R6 was 1080 @120 or was it 240? I was worried that was a sign the the R5 would not touch FullHD video and only 8k and 4K, please someone tell me they have the confidence that the R5 will still be able to shoot FULL HD and RAW... that would be dream, I miss the 5D Mkiii Magic Lantern Raw days... the FULL HD 14 bit RAW video was a DREAAAAAMMMMM


RAW is strictly (up to) 8K30p only to CFExpress cards, no lower resolution mode or cropped mode available.

But the 10-bit 4:2:2 Canon Log (with proper exposure and white balance) shouldn't be bad at all either with more reasonable file sizes.

They need to implement a newer, smarter system to sort out the recording modes, because there will be way too many options compared to any previous camera.


----------



## TracerHD (Jun 6, 2020)

I'm sure the R6 has "only" 20MP because it has Quad-Pixel-AF.
They upgraded their APS-C QPAF Patent to FF.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 6, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> Go, GO, GOOOO!!!!


This is what i'm looking forward to Canon (sleeping giant) waking up and delivery very good FF ML cameras. Hopefully should be a big bombshell that will kick up the ^^%%^ Sony and Nikon to step up and deliver better gear to their customer base.

Based on rumored specs the Canon RF R 5 should be a FF ML game changer ( same impact that Canon made to the DSLR FF market with the exceptional Canon 5D with Nikon coming back afterwards with their 36MP Monster the D800 ).


----------



## Hector1970 (Jun 6, 2020)

I'm always curious with these new cameras the focus on video and the video specs. 
What videos are done with them afterwards?
I tend to see very good photographs taken with them often rivaling professional photographers.
I see very little good video work with them. 
They are capable of making very good full length or short films but it doesn't really seem to happen.
To me they appear to be used for blogging where almost any camera video would do.
You'd think it should be a boom time for independent film making but the problem doesn't seem to be the gear but the film idea to go with it.
Netflix in particular seems to have alot of very poor films shot on the best of equipment. 
It would be great to see the R5 combined with a good script and a good film cinematographer.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jun 6, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Regarding Auroras the R6 will definitely a substantial upgrade, even an old 5D3 would be. I use the 7D2 since many years. It was a real improvement at higher ISOs over the original 7D but it is now a 6 years old crop camera.


I would expect at least a couple of stops which would be hugely beneficial. It really is starting to look like a serious option for me


----------



## SteveC (Jun 6, 2020)

PhotoRN86 said:


> god I hope it still shoots 1080p, It should right!!? When I saw that the leaked specs for the R6 was 1080 @120 or was it 240? I was worried that was a sign the the R5 would not touch FullHD video and only 8k and 4K, please someone tell me they have the confidence that the R5 will still be able to shoot FULL HD and RAW... that would be dream, I miss the 5D Mkiii Magic Lantern Raw days... the FULL HD 14 bit RAW video was a DREAAAAAMMMMM



Now wouldn't that be ironic as heck...Canon dropping 1080p because they thought no one used it, like happened with 24p.


----------



## Viggo (Jun 6, 2020)

Here’s a tip that always works, you just need to pay attention.

during a given year your significant other will say things like , “I want this chandelier, what do you think of it?” And I couldn’t really care less, but act like you HATE it, but let the significant other “convince” you and plead to get it and they’ll eventually throw in a “if I get this, I owe you one”, so when the the R5 is released I just point at the chandelier and “confirm order”.


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## Go Wild (Jun 6, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> I'm always curious with these new cameras the focus on video and the video specs.
> What videos are done with them afterwards?
> I tend to see very good photographs taken with them often rivaling professional photographers.
> I see very little good video work with them.
> ...



Hello Hector

The World is changing and this new mirrorless cameras are getting better and better! Not all videographers can work with high budgets or can afford a Canon C500mkII. The mirrorless world is helping a lot specially freelancers. From low budget advertise videos, to a full documentary this cameras are more and more in "the bag" and in use of videographers.

I can give you my example, I am working more and more with mirrorless to film. And despite I have a Sony Fs5 mkII I often use a Sony A7r3 to film and also a Canon 1dx mkII and a Canon EOS R with an Atomos shogun. Because mirrorless cameras (and dslrs) are much more practical to use, smaller that you can use on gimbals, they can carry much better than big video cameras and the weight is of course, less. So the mirrorless gives you a lot of great reasons to work with thems. Yes, most of the works you see with mirrorless on the Web is vlogging because thats a free content that content creators put on the web. Guys like me that work on video we don´t put content for free on Web. Well...a least most of the times. We work for clients and the videos re delivered to them. When we don´t work for clients we can also make our own content. I can show you here a small part of a documentary shot on Antarctica.I also have used the Sony FS5 mkII but in this footage that I show you it´s 100% with Sony A7r3 and Canon 1dx mkII.
I am looking forward with anxiety for the EOS R5 to sell all my Sony Equipment and back to Canon 100%. I like Sony but Canon is so much better!! Even the EOS R gives me more pleasure to use, than the A7r3. I am waiting for so long for Canon....but I am so happy now with this BOMB, the R5! Can´t wait to have it!

SO....Answering you...Yes, mirrorless are in use more and more in professional filmmaking and not only Vloggers! 








[email protected] said:


> This is what i'm looking forward to Canon (sleeping giant) waking up and delivery very good FF ML cameras. Hopefully should be a big bombshell that will kick up the ^^%%^ Sony and Nikon to step up and deliver better gear to their customer base.
> 
> Based on rumored specs the Canon RF R 5 should be a FF ML game changer ( same impact that Canon made to the DSLR FF market with the exceptional Canon 5D with Nikon coming back afterwards with their 36MP Monster the D800 ).


Yes....I am wating since 2017 for this one!! Canon slept a little bit, but woke up in strength!!!  This one is a hell of a Camera!! Looking forward!!


----------



## Basil (Jun 7, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> Canon is doing a great job keeping the lid on the resolution and the price. Two numbers that loom large in the imagination.



The resolution for the R5 has been confirmed for a while: 45MP. Also, Canon Rumors is stating as [CR3] (fact) that the R6 is going to be 20MP.


----------



## Basil (Jun 7, 2020)

another_mikey said:


> So what does no CR rating mean? Is this so speculative that it is just a guess that is below a CR1 level, or is it so certain that it is presented as fact, and does not require a rumor rating at all?



Link to the CR rating system is on the left side of the Page:
https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-rumors-rating-system-explained/


----------



## stevelee (Jun 7, 2020)

I just saw a reference suggesting that Nikon is coming out with 3 new mirrorless cameras, an entry-level, a crop to compete with the M50, and end of the year a high-end.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 7, 2020)

Basil said:


> The resolution for the R5 has been confirmed for a while: 45MP.



It's never been confirmed.


----------



## wolf (Jun 7, 2020)

Basil said:


> The resolution for the R5 has been confirmed for a while: 45MP. Also, Canon Rumors is stating as [CR3] (fact) that the R6 is going to be 20MP.


So tell us all where that was confirmed


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 7, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> As I said before the reason for the ambiguous specs is that DCI have yet to publish any 8K standards. Canon cannot advertise a camera as being compliant with a standard that does not exist. However, the resolution of any future 8K DCI standard is almost guaranteed to be 8192x4320 so it’s very likely the R5 will be able to record in this resolution.



Btw, on the contrary, it casts some doubt Canon supports a non-existent standard, therefore all derived calculations on 45mp can be questioned.


----------



## TAF (Jun 7, 2020)

Rassmus said:


> What would you guys guess the R5 can do for fps in 1080? Prob higher or stay in 120?



If they have any sense, it will be [email protected] or better. Slow motion is another untapped market.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jun 7, 2020)

Have we gotten a CR3 R6 price yet like we did for the $3999 R5? 
If so, you can just remind me this Sunday, along with its specs.


----------



## stevelee (Jun 7, 2020)

TAF said:


> If they have any sense, it will be [email protected] or better. Slow motion is another untapped market.


It will make very graceful cat videos.


----------



## peters (Jun 7, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> Hello Hector
> 
> The World is changing and this new mirrorless cameras are getting better and better! Not all videographers can work with high budgets or can afford a Canon C500mkII. The mirrorless world is helping a lot specially freelancers. From low budget advertise videos, to a full documentary this cameras are more and more in "the bag" and in use of videographers.
> 
> ...


Awesome work and great post!


----------



## Stig Nygaard (Jun 7, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Btw, on the contrary, it casts some doubt Canon supports a non-existent standard, therefore all derived calculations on 45mp can be questioned.



You can look at it another way. If 4K DCI is full width of sensor, but 4K UHD is not, what would be the reason for this?

The reason is of course that the sensor width is a multiple of 4K DCI width, so it is easy/easiest to make the DCI mode full width (no crop).

If sensor width matched 8K UHD in width, then 4K UHD would be full width (no crop). 4K DCI would be much more resource problematic to implement in full width than 4K UHD. In fact, the processor would probably not have enough power to operate in full width 4K DCI.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 7, 2020)

Stig Nygaard said:


> You can look at it another way. If 4K DCI is full width of sensor, but 4K UHD is not, what would be the reason for this?



How do we know 4K UHD is not the full width in the R5?


----------



## Bahrd (Jun 7, 2020)

TracerHD said:


> I'm sure the R6 has "only" 20MP because it has Quad-Pixel-AF.
> They upgraded their APS-C QPAF Patent to FF.


It would have really been awesome... A new M5 with QP-AF would also make a splash...


----------



## Go Wild (Jun 7, 2020)

peters said:


> Awesome work and great post!



Thank you so much peters!!

One thing I didn´t mention of the "benefits" of using mirrorless cameras to film is the awesome autofocus! Not so many years ago film was almost exclusively made in manual focus, because film cameras autofocus were completely unreliable and we couldn´t use it. It was erratic and very inaccurate. In this days, AF in videocameras has improved but nothing that compares to AF in DSLRS or Mirrorless! I see myself today with almost 100% trust to film with AF with mirrorless and dslr and that is a huge improvement and helps a lot specially in wildlife. So AF is a big advantage that video guys can now enjoy.
And what about Canon DPAF? It´s just wonderful!!  IF this EOS R5 and the R6 are what we think they are, I am thinking in replacing the FS5 and the 1dx mkII for the two of them. I maybe keep the EOS R for a while I do like to film with her paired with an Atomos.


----------



## Stig Nygaard (Jun 7, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> How do we know 4K UHD is not the full width in the R5?



I was going to ignore this question as being trolling. But then I saw your photos, and you are obviously a skilled photographer and not just someone having sick fun trolling forums on the internet all day. So I'm going to follow you on Flickr and assume your question was seriously meant...

Canon has officially stated the following about R5's video-capabilities:



> No crop 8K and 4K video capture using the full-width of the sensor.*
> * When in 8K RAW, 8K/4K DCI modes.



Some has been arguing that the "DCI" might only be related to 4K (which is looking kind of borderish-trolling to me, but I have chosen to take it as a serious opinion). But for sure it says 4K DCI is full-width of the sensor.

Of course, technically you could argue that they do not directly say that 4K UHD ain't _also_ full-width, but if you argue that, then you definitely _are_ a troll (I might still follow you on Flickr, though)


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 7, 2020)

Stig Nygaard said:


> Of course, technically you could argue that they do not directly say that 4K UHD ain't _also_ full-width, but if you argue that, then you definitely _are_ a troll



I'm only saying there's no direct undeniable evidence the R5 will support 8K DCI and therefore will have about 45mp. Same for 4K UHD. There's still room for doubt. It's not trolling, it's just critical reasoning 

But I've acknowledged in this thread it's very probable it has 45mp. Lots of things point to it, only indirectly. So it's probable, but not 'confirmed'.

Thanks for the warm words btw - to be honest I've almost abandoned Flickr after all their changes, limits on the group postings etc.


----------



## sanj (Jun 7, 2020)

I do not understand the concern about exact Mpx? It will be around 40. What difference if 5 more or less?


----------



## peters (Jun 7, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> Thank you so much peters!!
> 
> One thing I didn´t mention of the "benefits" of using mirrorless cameras to film is the awesome autofocus! Not so many years ago film was almost exclusively made in manual focus, because film cameras autofocus were completely unreliable and we couldn´t use it. It was erratic and very inaccurate. In this days, AF in videocameras has improved but nothing that compares to AF in DSLRS or Mirrorless! I see myself today with almost 100% trust to film with AF with mirrorless and dslr and that is a huge improvement and helps a lot specially in wildlife. So AF is a big advantage that video guys can now enjoy.
> And what about Canon DPAF? It´s just wonderful!!  IF this EOS R5 and the R6 are what we think they are, I am thinking in replacing the FS5 and the 1dx mkII for the two of them. I maybe keep the EOS R for a while I do like to film with her paired with an Atomos.


Ha jeah, its indeed SUCH an important tool. Most video guys dont have the money and production size for a dedicated focus puller - which is expensive, needs to have experience and also needs a lot of extra gear (video connection and extra screen, the focus puller itself - thats easily another 2000$ AT LEAST.). With DPAF its just working as good as manual and you dont need to do anything... its so awesome.
But what I found equally important is a good IS. I found this, when I got the Panasonic Lumix S1H. Its sooo much easier to get a good image out of the camera. The 1DX (while offering a beautifull image quality right out of the box) is quite top-heavy and in my experience you need a lot of equipment to keep it steady. the S1H can be used handheld quite easily. 
I have I hopes for the R5 - with both, IBIS AND DPAF its a super versatile tool =)


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## peters (Jun 7, 2020)

sanj said:


> I do not understand the concern about exact Mpx? It will be around 40. What difference if 5 more or less?


I dont think its much of a concern, more like interest in technology =)


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## Czardoom (Jun 7, 2020)

sanj said:


> I do not understand the concern about exact Mpx? It will be around 40. What difference if 5 more or less?



In the real world, of course, it will make no difference. No one will be able to tell the difference between 45 mp and 39 mp. But on internet forums...well, every little thing is blown way out of proportion.  Just my opinion, of course!


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## highdesertmesa (Jun 7, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> In the real world, of course, it will make no difference. No one will be able to tell the difference between 45 mp and 39 mp. But on internet forums...well, every little thing is blown way out of proportion.  Just my opinion, of course!



Big difference for me since I’ve been waiting for a 5DsR replacement for some time. 45 mp is close enough, but 39 is not enough of a increase from the R for me. I’ll instead spend the money on RF glass and wait for the higher res version next year.


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## deleteme (Jun 7, 2020)

Basil said:


> The resolution for the R5 has been confirmed for a while: 45MP. Also, Canon Rumors is stating as [CR3] (fact) that the R6 is going to be 20MP.


As I have noted, that is the assumption. Canon has NEVER confirmed that. It is not a fact until Canon states so.
The 45MP figure is extrapolated from the 8K RAW spec. Yet interestingly, Canon has never confirmed that yet they could have for no cost.


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## deleteme (Jun 7, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Big difference for me since I’ve been waiting for a 5DsR replacement for some time. 45 mp is close enough, but 39 is not enough of a increase from the R for me. I’ll instead spend the money on RF glass and wait for the higher res version next year.


Maybe it is 180MP with binning to make 8K RAW.


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## tnargs (Jun 7, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> So... wait and see again. Recycled drivel.


Really? Where did you already know about "first few days in July"?


----------



## Hector1970 (Jun 7, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> Hello Hector
> 
> The World is changing and this new mirrorless cameras are getting better and better! Not all videographers can work with high budgets or can afford a Canon C500mkII. The mirrorless world is helping a lot specially freelancers. From low budget advertise videos, to a full documentary this cameras are more and more in "the bag" and in use of videographers.
> 
> ...


Thanks Go Wild - lovely video. Best of luck with your work


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## highdesertmesa (Jun 8, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> Maybe it is 180MP with binning to make 8K RAW.



I said a while back it could be 80-90 mp with downsampling. Given the already-announced specs of the R5, I believe Canon could pull it off, but I kinda doubt they went that route.

Still – Canon's either holding back the resolution spec because it's lower than expected or higher than expected. I seriously doubt it will be right at 45 mp. If it is 45 mp, it's dumb they didn't release the mp spec with the rest of the specs.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 8, 2020)

sanj said:


> I do not understand the concern about exact Mpx? It will be around 40. What difference if 5 more or less?



Some people derive a sense of self-satisfaction quibbling over minutiae.


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## Gti5notrkt (Jun 8, 2020)

Never been interested in a new release camera until this time around for the R5. What’s the typical arrangement with local Canon dealers? Do they accept preorder/deposits? Whats a typical $? Refundable? Priority for prior buyers/pros? I realize it’s case by case, but what’s been your experience in the past?


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## HarryFilm (Jun 8, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> As I said before the reason for the ambiguous specs is that DCI have yet to publish any 8K standards. Canon cannot advertise a camera as being compliant with a standard that does not exist. However, the resolution of any future 8K DCI standard is almost guaranteed to be 8192x4320 so it’s very likely the R5 will be able to record in this resolution.



Very True! DCI simply does not YET publish any definitive standard related to 1.89:1 Aspect Ratio Moving Image Acquisition.

DCI 8k is, in this case, a PRESUMPTIVE de-facto standard mostly created by Red for their Monstro cameras that MANY in the Hollywood cinema production community adhere to on an ad-hoc basis within the production pipeline of acquisition, editing, FX, rendering and final output file formatting. Everyone PRESUMES DCI 8k will happen so IT WILL HAPPEN as a new standard as soon as people get back together to agree upon an actual ISO or corporate-group DCI 8K standard.

And the NEXT standards WILL BE true DCI-8k Production at 8192 by 4320 pixels at 16 bits per colour and alpha channel at 120 fps AND a 10-to-15-years-into-the-future DCI-16k Production at 16384 by 8640 pixels at 16-bits per colour channel at possibly 300 fps to allow for EASY conversion to North American 60 fps and European 50 fps home consumer display frame rates which will STILL be present in 10 to 15 years. The high frame 120 fps and 300 fps frame rates ALSO allow for easy Stereoscopic 3D production where BOTH eyes get full resolution minimum 50/60 fps imagery 4:2:2 10 bits per channel video that still fits into the bandwidth of what will be typical home high-speed internet and Netflix connections between 75 to 150 megabits per second using H.265 type of video compression.

This new Canon R5 Camera, even at 30 fps de-facto DCI-8k video could have that footage UP-REZzed to high frame rate 60 fps and 120 fps to FIT VERY NICELY into the next true DCI 8k standard of production. For about $4000 US, MANY filmmakers on a very limited budget can get a GREAT camera that will fulfill MANY aspects of 8k production. It's not C500 mk2 or C700 FF quality ...BUT... it's a great start for that recent film school grad and street-photo-style documentary filmmaker!

This R5 camera, in my opinion, is another Canon 5D mk 2 which so blew away the filmmaking community 10+ years ago. It will have the same effect in terms of getting some young director/cinematographer become another J.J. Abrams, Guillermo del Toro or Spike Lee. They all started out small with small but SHARP gear and they got noticed. This R5 is another SHARP TOOL at a good price to give that hungry new talent some extra breathing room to bring compelling imagery to a cinema or home screen!

I commend Canon for having the guts to pull something like the R5 off at $4000 US -- they WILL get a lot of sales out this. The Canon 1Dx Mk3 will NOT have its sales be cannibalized since it's in a completely DIFFERENT market (i.e. sports/action still photos!) And even the C200 won't be damaged market-wise because it too is in a different market. (B-and-C-cam 24 fps 35mm-style 4K/1080 commercials and business videos)

This R5 fills a nice NICHE in studio portraiture, landscape stills and true low-budget 24 and 30 fps 4K/8K filmmaking!

Once Canon comes out with an Alexa-killer by giving the Hollywood community a DCI 8K 120 fps GLOBAL SHUTTER SENSOR with DPAF in a full-frame or MF sensor C700 body those avid R5'ers will upgrade to the new Canon Cinema EOS 8K gear in very short order!

V


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 8, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> No one will be able to tell the difference between 45 mp and 39 mp.



Absolutely yes, when downscaled to the Insta size. 
Absolutely no, if you're doing landscapes/architecture, heavy cropping, large prints. 

Also, when you upgrade from 5DIV, 45mp sounds like a decent jump on par with Nikon D850 and Sony A7rIII. 39mp is a kinda meh.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jun 8, 2020)

When the 1st announcement came for the R5, I was excited, when the second and subsequent announcements came, I was wow, let me at it & ready to buy, as long as the price wasn't ridiculous. But it's funny how when things drag on and your forced to use what you have, as well as do lots of other things you wouldn't normally do because of COVID-19 & lockdown, I'm sort of a bit meh, flat and neither here nor there. 

I've gone from 'I'm getting that when pre orders are available' to 'I think I'll wait until lockdown ends and use some of the new techniques I was forced to learn during lockdown to see if the extra specs are worth the expense'.

Time with nothing to do makes you think and puts different perspectives on things.

It's a funny old world.


----------



## koenkooi (Jun 8, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> When the 1st announcement came for the R5, I was excited, when the second and subsequent announcements came,[..]



Technically Canon hasn't announced anything about the R5 yet, they only released a 'Development announcement' and a few updates. I do agree that it feels like Canon is announcing R5 things every other day, but then I realize it's just Canon Rumors drip feeding us info, not Canon itself


----------



## Joules (Jun 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Absolutely no, if you're doing landscapes/architecture, heavy cropping, large prints.
> 
> Also, when you upgrade from 5DIV, 45mp sounds like a decent jump on par with Nikon D850 and Sony A7rIII. 39mp is a kinda meh.


Keep in mind with the R5 we should also get the new type of high detail low pass filter first found in the 1D X III. So even a lower megapixel bump could give you a greater than expected improvement with regards to detail.

Also worth noting is that Canon usually increments their resolution by a factor of about 1.3 between generations. And that would actually would mean 45 MP is the odd choice if the R5 is an R / 5D IV successor.

6D to 6D II => 20 * 1.3 = 26
5D III to 5D IV => 22 * 1.33 = 30
Older APS-C => 18 * 1.33 = 24
Newer APS-C => 24 * 1.33 = 32

R to R5 => 30 * 1.33 = 40 ?

Maybe they simply abandoned that approach for something more practical. 45 sounds nicer than 40, but it is no make or brake difference to me and probably not to the market either. As you can see above, it would be no unusual increment for Canon, and this time the speed and AF are getting unprecedented improvements to go along with it.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Wouldn't those extra hardware pixels also need to appear in the RAW file data?



Yes, and they do. But what you see on your screen is never a raw file, it's one demosaiced interpretation of that raw file.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> RAW files already have 'additional' pixels, there's a border that is used for image housekeeping like black level calibration which doesn't show up in the resulting picture on your screen.
> 
> That's why Canon spec pages have:
> 
> ...



Effective.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> It's not such a big problem to add those padding pixels. Details of jpeg compression are unlikely to be the decisive factor for determining the sensor dimensions.
> 
> Some other factors could make them to be a multiple of 16, I don't argue that.



If you have source files that are divisible by 8x8 or 16x16 you don't need to add any padding pixels, do you? 



Quarkcharmed said:


> btw, I don't think camera works with tiff files internally, the demosaicing process you mentioned is only needed for jpeg generation and back-screen previews, it's not written to raw files which leave demosaicing to the processing software.
> Internally the camera would have buffers with RGB data per pixel, but it won't convert them to tiff files, it's kinda meaningless. tiff file implies more data than just RGB per pixel, and that data isn't necessary for interim processing.



JPEG is a special version of TIFF files that is fully compliant with the TIFF standard. Canon .crw and .cr2 files store their raw file information in a TIFF compliant container.

But I never said Canon cameras "convert" the RGB data to TIFF files. What I actually said was "Uncompressed TIFF files are _one form_ that represents these individual RGB values for each pixel." The distinction being that the information in a raw image file aren't really "pixels" at all, they are monochrome luminance values from photosites a/k/a sensels a/k/a as "pixel wells" but technically they are not "pixels".


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

Tremotino said:


> Repeat te test in LiveView for the 1dx and you will be surprised.




The 1D X Mark III is _*much better*_ with AF in Live than the 1D X.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If you have source files that are divisible by 8x8 or 16x16 you don't need to add any padding pixels, do you?



You don't need to 'add' them in terms of additional memory, the padding will be virtual. I'm not saying Canon won't make image dimensions multiples of 16. I'm saying jpeg conversion is unlikely to be the only or main factor. The cost of software processing of 'uneven' jpegs is negligible.



Michael Clark said:


> JPEG is a special version of TIFF files that is fully compliant with the TIFF standard.



Is it so? I thought jpeg compression can be used in tiff files, when tiff serves as a container. Normally tiff files have uncompressed images.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> JPEG is a special version of TIFF files that is fully compliant with the TIFF standard.



I dived deeper into that https://www.adobe.io/content/dam/udp/en/open/standards/tiff/TIFF6.pdf
jpeg inside tiff is an 'extension' to the baseline tiff. Extensions are not supported by all tiff readers.
tiff is a container for jpeg compression but not jpeg files, so by no means jpeg can be fully compliant with tiff.



Michael Clark said:


> Canon .crw and .cr2 files store their raw file information in a TIFF compliant container.



Apparently cr2 uses tiff as a container, but again it adds canon-specific tags to tiff so not compliant with the baseline tiff.


----------



## BillB (Jun 8, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> .
> Still – Canon's either holding back the resolution spec because it's lower than expected or higher than expected. I seriously doubt it will be right at 45 mp. If it is 45 mp, it's dumb they didn't release the mp spec with the rest of the specs.


I can’t remember Canon ever releasing the exact resolution of a camera sensor before the official announcement. So they are holding back information that they have always held back until the official announcement.


----------



## Mark3794 (Jun 8, 2020)

It's July yet? Dad are we there?


----------



## 12Broncos (Jun 8, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"


As of right now, I don't have a camera. I'm content to save for it. If it's released in July I might be able to get it in September. Just in time for Autumn!


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

Nelu said:


> Maybe, but using a DSLR in live view for fast moving subjects is not great, ergonomically.



Tell that to this guy!


__
https://flic.kr/p/2iuFDdj

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=19011639

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=19013125

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=19002224


----------



## degos (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Tell that to this guy



None of those were fast moving.

Try tracking an airshow crossover in Live View


----------



## BillB (Jun 8, 2020)

degos said:


> None of those were fast moving.
> 
> Try tracking an airshow crossover in Live View


On a tripod, I mostly use Live View, but I don‘t use it hand held.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Absolutely yes, when downscaled to the Insta size.
> Absolutely no, if you're doing landscapes/architecture, heavy cropping, large prints.
> 
> Also, when you upgrade from 5DIV, 45mp sounds like a decent jump on par with Nikon D850 and Sony A7rIII. 39mp is a kinda meh.



45MP is less than 7.5% more than 39MP in terms of linear resolution.


----------



## Steve Balcombe (Jun 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Normally tiff files have uncompressed images.


Compressed TIFF files are very common, but the compression is normally lossless, maybe that's what you confusing it with. Baseline TIFF supports two forms of RLE (run-length encoding) compression, as well as uncompressed - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Compression. JPEG compression and others are supported by extensions - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Compression_2


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> You don't need to 'add' them in terms of additional memory, the padding will be virtual. I'm not saying Canon won't make image dimensions multiples of 16. I'm saying jpeg conversion is unlikely to be the only or main factor. The cost of software processing of 'uneven' jpegs is negligible.



How about the "savings" in terms of elegant engineering and simplicity? How about the effect on image quality when an image needs to be highly compressed/decompressed by a network transport system handling billions of requests per second?

*If you have source files that are divisible by 8x8 or 16x16 you don't need to add any padding pixels, do you? *



Quarkcharmed said:


> Is it so? I thought jpeg compression can be used in tiff files, when tiff serves as a container. Normally tiff files have uncompressed images.



The way many folks use TIFF files are that they are 16-bit uncompressed or, even more commonly, losslessly compressed (LZW) images but that is far from the only form TIFF files can be. 8-bit TIFFs, for instance, are also baseline compliant.




Quarkcharmed said:


> I dived deeper into that https://www.adobe.io/content/dam/udp/en/open/standards/tiff/TIFF6.pdf
> jpeg inside tiff is an 'extension' to the baseline tiff. Extensions are not supported by all tiff readers.
> tiff is a container for jpeg compression but not jpeg files, so by no means jpeg can be fully compliant with tiff.



Sheeesh! By your rigid standard CMYK, YCbCr, or CIE L*A*B based TIFFs are not "real" TIFFs either. Yet publishers request images in such "TIFFs" all of the time. Many extensions, including JPEG, are standardized parts of the TIFF standard and any modern tiff reader can easily handle them. JPEGs are a standardized image format within the TIFF standard. Even many private extensions, such as proprietary raw camera files, can be handled by the most commonly used TIFF readers.



Quarkcharmed said:


> Apparently cr2 uses tiff as a container, but again it adds canon-specific tags to tiff so not compliant with the baseline tiff.



Restricting only baseline TIFF compliant files with no extensions as the only "real" form of TIFFs in 2020 is a bit like restricting Kleenex as the only "real" form of facial tissue.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

degos said:


> None of those were fast moving.
> 
> Try tracking an airshow crossover in Live View



Hunt through that thread and see him later using LV for birds in flight with stacked extenders. I've been following the thread in real time for months, I don't have time to read the entire thing again.

It should go without saying that anyone in their right mind using the kinds of focal lengths needed to get a tight shot of an airshow crossover from behind the safety line will be using a gimbal on a tripod if they have any kind of clue as to what they are doing.


----------



## Steve Balcombe (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> 45MP is less than 7.5% more than 39MP in terms of linear resolution.


I still don't believe the resolution will be anything other than 8192 wide, but that's only 6.67% more than 7680 (i.e. UHD 8K). Would it affect my buying decision if it was only 7680? It would certainly be a minus point but if everything else was good enough I'd soon forget about it. It's probably more important to people who will shoot a lot more video than me, because of its consequences for DCI support.

6.67% doesn't sound much, so is it significant in the real world? 6.67% taller than six foot is almost 6' 5", so I'd say yes.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

Steve Balcombe said:


> I still don't believe the resolution will be anything other than 8192 wide, but that's only 6.67% more than 7680 (i.e. UHD 8K). Would it affect my buying decision if it was only 7680? It would certainly be a minus point but if everything else was good enough I'd soon forget about it. It's probably more important to people who will shoot a lot more video than me, because of its consequences for DCI support.
> 
> 6.67% doesn't sound much, so is it significant in the real world? 6.67% taller than six foot is almost 6' 5", so I'd say yes.



It's not that big a difference when compared to 4' 7" (which is what 30 MP would be if 39MP is 6' and 45MP is 6' 5").


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## Starting out EOS R (Jun 8, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Technically Canon hasn't announced anything about the R5 yet, they only released a 'Development announcement' and a few updates. I do agree that it feels like Canon is announcing R5 things every other day, but then I realize it's just Canon Rumors drip feeding us info, not Canon itself


That's one way of looking at it lol. Not sure CanonRumors guy can publish anything untless Canon release information, wether it be development announcements or real announcements.


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## highdesertmesa (Jun 8, 2020)

BillB said:


> I can’t remember Canon ever releasing the exact resolution of a camera sensor before the official announcement. So they are holding back information that they have always held back until the official announcement.



Do they historically release just about all the specs _except for _the resolution before the announcement?


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 8, 2020)

Steve Balcombe said:


> JPEG compression and others are supported by extensions - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Compression_2



But that's exactly what I said. Supporting jpeg compression inside tiff is not the same as 'jpeg is a special version of tiff files' as Michael Clark said.
In theory you can add an extension to tiff and support mpeg video in it. It wouldn't make mpeg a special version of tiff.

jpeg files are not tiff files, and ability to have jpeg-compressed data inside tiff doesn't make jpeg a special version of tiff.


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## sanj (Jun 8, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Do they historically release just about all the specs _except for _the resolution before the announcement?


Don't think so.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 8, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Do they historically release just about all the specs _except for _the resolution before the announcement?




In case you haven't noticed, there's a lot about 2020 that isn't exactly typical.


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## BillB (Jun 8, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Do they historically release just about all the specs _except for _the resolution before the announcement?


Well, they have said the camera will do 8k video, and there is some confusion about whether they said that was 8k dci or not. I do seem to recollect them saying that 8k had no cropping on the horizontal dimension. Nobody, including me, seems to be interested enough to go back to the second announcement, which was video focussed, to see how specific they were about whether they said 8k dci or not. If it is 8k dci, then the sensor resolution would seem most likely to be 45 mp. This is more related to sensor resolution than I can remember them saying about any other camera before the official announcement.


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## Nelu (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Tell that to this guy!
> 
> 
> __
> ...


And do you call that fast moving action?


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> How about the "savings" in terms of elegant engineering and simplicity? How about the effect on image quality when an image needs to be highly compressed/decompressed by a network transport system handling billions of requests per second?


Not sure what network transport has to do with 8-16 pixel alignment in jpeg in Canon cameras.
Padding doesn't decrease the image quality.
16-pixel alignment I guess is driven by how physical sensor matrix is done and how circuits are designed. The fact it helps jpeg is just a bonus, I guess, not primary reason for 16-bit alignment. For jpeg, 8x8 pixel block alignment would've been enough, but they do 16x16.



Michael Clark said:


> Many extensions, including JPEG, are standardized parts of the TIFF standard and any modern tiff reader can easily handle them. JPEGs are a standardized image format within the TIFF standard. Even many private extensions, such as proprietary raw camera files, can be handled by the most commonly used TIFF readers.


First of all you said 'jpeg is a special version of tiff files'. That's not the case.

Yes jpeg-compressed data can be wrapped into a container. You can claim that eggs are 'compliant' with a basket, but that'd be meaningless.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> 45MP is less than 7.5% more than 39MP in terms of linear resolution.


Had I been buying a new camera, or upgrading from a crop to the FF, I wouldn't care too much. But I'm going to upgrade from 5DIV. What I was saying, if the R5 after the official announcement appears to have 45mp, I'll probably preorder. If it's 39mp, then 30mp->39mp jump is a 'meh'. It'd probably wait for the R5s in that case. Unless future reviews tell the R5 has a drastic jump in dynamic range.


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## Steve Balcombe (Jun 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> But that's exactly what I said.


No it isn't. You said:


Quarkcharmed said:


> Normally tiff files have uncompressed images.


- which is not true. The baseline spec, without any extensions, includes compression (but significantly, it is lossless).


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## Steve Balcombe (Jun 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It's not that big a difference when compared to 4' 7" (which is what 30 MP would be if 39MP is 6' and 45MP is 6' 5").


Can't argue with that.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 8, 2020)

Steve Balcombe said:


> - which is not true. The baseline spec, without any extensions, includes compression (but significantly, it is lossless).



Yes, I implied the lossy compression, wrong term used, my bad.


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## itsab1989 (Jun 8, 2020)

amorse said:


> Now that we have a month's notice, maybe we should we start a forum discussion where we can start practicing excuses to justify the purchase to loved ones and concerned onlookers.
> 
> "Yes, I already have a camera, but I don't have _that_ camera!"



I just had that talk today and got ‚No‘ as an answer....


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## David_E (Jun 8, 2020)

Whowe said:


> And then David wakes up from his dream....


Hah! >$25k extra accumulated in checking acct. due to cancelled vacations and day trips during the pandemic, probably another $25k before we feel that we can travel in autumn, at the earliest. I don’t think that a camera and such luxuries as my wife might want (she does not need my permission when shopping) will make a noticeable dent.


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## RBSfphoto (Jun 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Absolutely yes, when downscaled to the Insta size.
> Absolutely no, if you're doing landscapes/architecture, heavy cropping, large prints.
> 
> Also, when you upgrade from 5DIV, 45mp sounds like a decent jump on par with Nikon D850 and Sony A7rIII. 39mp is a kinda meh.


Not that you asked but here is my opinion on the MP conversation. Maybe you will see the difference if you pixel peep, it is the best tool for the job type of thing. The benefits of a pro-level mirrorless full-frame are more than megapixels, if you are just concerned with resolution buy a phase one back or use the 5ds etc. We all have more technology in our phones than Cartier Bresson or Ansel Adams ever had, it is how you use the tools you have. Not just because something has more megapixels will make it the best tool for everyone in every situation. It is why we have so many cameras on the market and why professionals own more than one camera. I can't think of a better tool for my studio still life work than my phase 1 back but it is not the right tool for when I shoot concerts or wildlife. The " math" that we will all use to decide to upgrade is unique to the work that we do. Ultimately it is a tool that we can use to make images that move people, no one ever looks at a powerful composition, with compelling subject matter, and says it would have been better if it was 45 MP and not 39 mp. So what are the parts of the tool, the ease of use, the size, the available glass, the low light capabilities etc, etc that are most important to you, they will not only be different for each artist but sometimes for the same artist per situation.


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## Th0msky (Jun 8, 2020)

I thought the R series were more for videographers but all I see is discussion about the mpx... 
I'll go pickup the R6 anyways.


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## David_E (Jun 8, 2020)

RBSfphoto said:


> _Not that you asked but here is my opinion on the MP conversation. Maybe you will see the difference if you pixel peep, it is the best tool for the job type of thing. The benefits of a pro-level mirrorless full-frame are more than megapixels..._


You know too much to be in this thread. Can’t you see that the sole measure of a camera today is 8k video and pixels, pixels, and more pixels? Get enough pixels and you can run and gun and never have to learn quaint stuff like the art of composition.


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## idave4321 (Jun 9, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Had I been buying a new camera, or upgrading from a crop to the FF, I wouldn't care too much. But I'm going to upgrade from 5DIV. What I was saying, if the R5 after the official announcement appears to have 45mp, I'll probably preorder. If it's 39mp, then 30mp->39mp jump is a 'meh'. It'd probably wait for the R5s in that case. Unless future reviews tell the R5 has a drastic jump in dynamic range.



I am upgrading from the 5D4 as well but I am much more excited about other aspects. The RF lenses are amazing, I tested out my new 85 1.2 DS the other day and it hits focus so much more reliably than the EF 1.2 - I am also moving to the 28-70 f2 for events (24-70 2.8 II was on my camera 90% of the time) and this new lens feels like a mix of that lens with portrait lens perks  dual card slots, IBIS, eye tracking / animal eye tracking , RF mount, and significantly faster cards are all reasons to be very happy! From what people are saying it is going to be 44.7 Megapixels (as video ratio different to photography ratio) anyway


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## usern4cr (Jun 9, 2020)

idave4321 said:


> I am upgrading from the 5D4 as well but I am much more excited about other aspects. The RF lenses are amazing, I tested out my new 85 1.2 DS the other day and it hits focus so much more reliably than the EF 1.2 - I am also moving to the 28-70 f2 for events (24-70 2.8 II was on my camera 90% of the time) and this new lens feels like a mix of that lens with portrait lens perks  dual card slots, IBIS, eye tracking / animal eye tracking , RF mount, and significantly faster cards are all reasons to be very happy! From what people are saying it is going to be 44.7 Megapixels (as video ratio different to photography ratio) anyway


How do you like handholding your RF 85mm f1.2 DS? Does it get too heavy after a while, or does it feel balanced enough that you don't get tired holding it?

Also, when the RF 70-135mm f2 comes out, do you think you'll get it as well, or do you think you have enough portrait lens coverage already?


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## Quarkcharmed (Jun 9, 2020)

RBSfphoto said:


> Maybe you will see the difference if you pixel peep


But pixel peep what exactly? What's the target media? I know if it's say a 4K monitor, 30mp is more than enough even after downscaling.



RBSfphoto said:


> The benefits of a pro-level mirrorless full-frame are more than megapixels, if you are just concerned with resolution buy a phase one back or use the 5ds etc.



That's exactly what I said - if the R5 is less than 40mp, I'll consider waiting for the prospective high-res R5s.



RBSfphoto said:


> Not just because something has more megapixels will make it the best tool for everyone in every situation.



Absolutely right. But in the thread above, I was talking about buying camera for _myself _and for _my purposes_. Which is not only posting low-res to social media, and not only action photography, but also printing and sometimes difficult post-processing with heavy cropping.
I wasn't suggesting to anyone to use my criteria for buying a camera.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jun 9, 2020)

According to Nokishita, we will see the following lenses this year:

RF50mm F1.8 STM
RF85mm F2 Macro IS STM
RF70-200mm F4 L IS USM
RF100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM
RF600mm F11 IS STM
RF800mm F11 IS STM

Those F11 apertures are crazy!


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## Mark3794 (Jun 9, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> According to Nokishita, we will see the following lenses this year:
> 
> RF50mm F1.8 STM
> RF85mm F2 Macro IS STM
> ...



Canon management: "We need some new RF glass, what are the possible designs?"
Canon engineers: " 50mm f1.2 or 800 f11, no in-betweens."


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## Joules (Jun 9, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> According to Nokishita, we will see the following lenses this year:
> 
> RF50mm F1.8 STM
> RF85mm F2 Macro IS STM
> ...


Thanks for sharing!

The pricing on those f/11 lenses must be incredibly competitive. I can see myself using a 100-500 mm that goes to f/7.1 at some point. But an f/11 fixed aperture lens... Wow. Bold move.

I am also really interested in the R6 price now. Sure, the R and RP will likely continue to get cheaper, but is their EVF performance and AF up to shooting 800 mm? Or is the R6 indeed meant to become the new ultra price competitive body that is going to be used with these?


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## koenkooi (Jun 9, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> According to Nokishita, we will see the following lenses this year:
> 
> RF50mm F1.8 STM
> RF85mm F2 Macro IS STM
> ...



Strange, DLA for f/11 is starts around 24MP on full frame, The RP, R and R5 are all above that. Only the rumoured R6 would not the diffraction limited when using the f/11 lenses wide open.

I wonder if a new release of DPP will make DLO even more awesome.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jun 9, 2020)

Yeah, i don't see much point of that 600mm F11. Unless it's really sharp and great and very affordable, like under $1000. 
Losing almost 2 stops compared to a Sony 200-600 or a Sigma 60-600 is too much. Can be ok in good light tho.


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## Richard Anthony (Jun 9, 2020)

Anybody know how the cards are going to work together , you can buy a CFexpress card at 512GB which gives you 1700mb a sec speeds but the best SD card is only 128GB Extreme Pro 300MB/s UHS-II SDXC Card , so only gives you 300 MB a second , story if seems a dumb question but I have not used a camera with dual slots before.


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## Paul Nordin (Jun 9, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> Anybody know how the cards are going to work together , you can buy a CFexpress card at 512GB which gives you 1700mb a sec speeds but the best SD card is only 128GB Extreme Pro 300MB/s UHS-II SDXC Card , so only gives you 300 MB a second , story if seems a dumb question but I have not used a camera with dual slots before.


Most likely for video some codecs/data rates/resolutions (8k vs 4k) will only work on CFexpress cards, other less demanding formats will work on SD cards. For Stills I would expect only the CFexpress cards to deliver the full performance capabilities the camera supports like rumored 20 images per second. Dual recording may be possible with h265 4k video on SD and CRaw on CFexpress. We'll have to wait another 3 weeks to learn for sure though.


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## Richard Anthony (Jun 9, 2020)

Paul Nordin said:


> Most likely for video some codecs/data rates/resolutions (8k vs 4k) will only work on CFexpress cards, other less demanding formats will work on SD cards. For Stills I would expect only the CFexpress cards to deliver the full performance capabilities the camera supports like rumored 20 images per second. Dual recording may be possible with h265 4k video on SD and CRaw on CFexpress. We'll have to wait another 3 weeks to learn for sure though.


Thanks Paul


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## TomR (Jun 9, 2020)

i see a lot of talk about how many megapixels this camera has, not as much talk about dynamic range and low light performance, the two most important things i'd like to know more about.

Canon, throw us a bone, i know you're reading this, give us some raw samples to play with.


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## slclick (Jun 9, 2020)

The Spinal Tap Lens Series


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## deleteme (Jun 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> I said a while back it could be 80-90 mp with downsampling. Given the already-announced specs of the R5, I believe Canon could pull it off, but I kinda doubt they went that route.
> 
> Still – Canon's either holding back the resolution spec because it's lower than expected or higher than expected. I seriously doubt it will be right at 45 mp. If it is 45 mp, it's dumb they didn't release the mp spec with the rest of the specs.


I agree. IMO the non-disclosure is significant and hints at an upside surprise.
I sense a Sony diaper change.


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## highdesertmesa (Jun 10, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> I agree. IMO the non-disclosure is significant and hints at an upside surprise.
> I sense a Sony diaper change.



Since seeing the new roadmap with two f/11 tele primes, I'm now leaning toward it being 39mp – but with 15-16 stops of DR and clean very-high ISO. But either way – diaper changes for everyone.


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## TomR (Jun 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> – but with 15-16 stops of DR and clean very-high ISO. But either way



That's a bold statement, I hope you're right but we have nothing to base this on yet


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## Richard Anthony (Jun 10, 2020)

Bought a CFexpress 512GB card today and a SD UHS -11 128GB card , ready for the R5 , lets hope I can get my hands on one when they are released now , the cards were just shy of a £1000 not cheap


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## Pixel (Jun 11, 2020)

I have heard from solid sources that pre-production R5's are being shipped to camera retailers across the country THIS week for evaluation, training and for retailers to shoot photos and videos that the retailers can release on announcement day!
They'll be under embargo and NDA so don't expect to see the models out on the showroom floors.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 11, 2020)

Pixel said:


> I have heard from solid sources that pre-production R5's are being shipped to camera retailers across the country THIS week for evaluation, training and for retailers to shoot photos and videos that the retailers can release on announcement day!
> They'll be under embargo and NDA so don't expect to see the models out on the showroom floors.


Images taken by preproduction units would never be released to be used in public domain. Never. did you mean to say “production units” instead?


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## Pixel (Jun 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Images taken by preproduction units would never be released to be used in public domain. Never. did you mean to say “production units” instead?


Happens all the time. 









Canon EOS-1D X Mark III pre-production sample gallery


Canon's new flagship sports camera is here. We've been busy shooting with it as much as possible, from high-speed college basketball games to low-light photography in a blacksmith shop.




m.dpreview.com


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## SecureGSM (Jun 11, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Happens all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. I stand corrected. Does not make a lot of sense to me. Anyway...


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## Michael Clark (Jun 11, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> According to Nokishita, we will see the following lenses this year:
> 
> RF50mm F1.8 STM
> RF85mm F2 Macro IS STM
> ...



They make the EF 400mm f/5.6 and 300mm f/4 look downright _fast!_


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## Michael Clark (Jun 11, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Yeah, i don't see much point of that 600mm F11. Unless it's really sharp and great and very affordable, like under $1000.
> Losing almost 2 stops compared to a Sony 200-600 or a Sigma 60-600 is too much. Can be ok in good light tho.



The two teles are almost certainly two of the rumored "affordable" non-L lenses that have been mentioned in previous rumors.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 11, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Strange, DLA for f/11 is starts around 24MP on full frame, The RP, R and R5 are all above that. Only the rumoured R6 would not the diffraction limited when using the f/11 lenses wide open.
> 
> I wonder if a new release of DPP will make DLO even more awesome.



These will be non-L consumer grade lenses. The folks who use such lenses, for the most part, aren't concerned with what the diffraction limited aperture of their camera is.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 11, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> Anybody know how the cards are going to work together , you can buy a CFexpress card at 512GB which gives you 1700mb a sec speeds but the best SD card is only 128GB Extreme Pro 300MB/s UHS-II SDXC Card , so only gives you 300 MB a second , story if seems a dumb question but I have not used a camera with dual slots before.



If the past is any indicator, when recording still images to both cards simultaneously the bus speed of both interfaces will be the same - maintained at the lower speed bus' data rate. Even if one is saving raw files to the faster card and only JPEGs to the slower card it will significantly slow down the write speed to the faster card and limit how fast the buffer can be cleared.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Wow. I stand corrected. Does not make a lot of sense to me. Anyway...



They can't release them until the embargo is lifted. Once the camera has been made official, they are then free to publish them.

Notice that Canon officially introduced the camera on January 6, 2020.

DP Review published that gallery on January 7, 2020.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 11, 2020)

idave4321 said:


> I am upgrading from the 5D4 as well but I am much more excited about other aspects. The RF lenses are amazing, I tested out my new 85 1.2 DS the other day and it hits focus so much more reliably than the EF 1.2 - I am also moving to the 28-70 f2 for events (24-70 2.8 II was on my camera 90% of the time) and this new lens feels like a mix of that lens with portrait lens perks  dual card slots, IBIS, eye tracking / animal eye tracking , RF mount, and significantly faster cards are all reasons to be very happy! From what people are saying it is going to be 44.7 Megapixels (as video ratio different to photography ratio) anyway



44.9 MP when you make it 8,208 x 5,472 so both sides of 3:2 still images are divisible by 16 like every other Canon EOS sensor ever made.


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