# Canon cameras that I’m told are coming in 2021



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 6, 2021)

> The rumor mill has been quiet for a little while now, well until yesterday. A good source has laid out the camera body plans for Canon in 2021.
> High-resolution RF body
> This has been long rumoured, we were talking about it even before the EOS R5 hit the scene. Canon will release an RF mount body with at least twice the megapixels of the EOS R5. I was told that the new sensor will “utilize new technologies for Canon”.
> APS-C RF Body
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Nigel95 (Jan 6, 2021)

"APS-C RF mount camera will be “directly aimed at sports, wildlife and videography”."

This is amazing news for me personally. Hope I can replace my 200d to have much better video features while keep using my current glass with an adapter. Hopefully it will include sharp detailed 4k 60p 10 bit, 1080 120fps, IBIS, C log and animal eye AF. I am willing to pay for it even if it's similar priced as the R6.

This would be a perfect hybrid camera for me which is also more economical than switching to FF.

Hopefully we see it in 2021.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 6, 2021)

eagerly waiting for APS-C RF body. That should make a great camera for macro use.


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## Richard Anthony (Jan 6, 2021)

Cant wait to see the specs of the R1


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## The3o5FlyGuy (Jan 6, 2021)

if a Crop sensor camera came out that was better than the R6 & R5 and similar to the R1, I’d be interested.


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## HeavyPiper (Jan 6, 2021)

Can't wait to see all the new cameras coming from Canon. Looking to replace my 6D Mark II.


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## gzroxas (Jan 6, 2021)

I would really love to have a Camera that mixes the EOS R and R6: give it the new sensor tech, IBIS and dual slots, autofocus. Reduce the number of FPS to 8-10 max. FF4k and 1080p 120. 
Megapixel count can be in between 20 and 30, just to have a little more room for cropping than 20mp and to enjoy the glorious sharpness of RF lenses a bit more.

Basically what people expected the original R to be, an evolved A7III like camera.

Maybe it’s just me though


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## Bob Howland (Jan 6, 2021)

"Sports, wildlife and videography" is quite a combination. Is Canon planning to create, among other things, a wildlife video camera that can be used with the Canon big whites for nature documentaries? From what I've seen, the lenses are very often Canon but the bodies are huge.


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## amorse (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm ready for that high resolution body! I'm guessing the new tech is a pixel shift system as rumoured before, but dare I wonder about a BSI sensor?

Looking forward to more info there!


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## dwarven (Jan 6, 2021)

My wallet is *******.


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## usern4cr (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm eager to see the specs for the R1 and R5s. I'd love to hear of a possible development of a R5a (astro version) but it looks like it's not on anyone's radar yet. Oh well, 8 or so new bodies isn't so bad.


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## LensFungus (Jan 6, 2021)

> *High-resolution RF body*
> 
> [...] I was told that the new sensor will “utilize new technologies for Canon”.


Two touch bars. \o/


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## Nigel95 (Jan 6, 2021)

Bob Howland said:


> "Sports, wildlife and videography" is quite a combination. Is Canon planning to create, among other things, a wildlife video camera that can be used with the Canon big whites for nature documentaries? From what I've seen, the lenses are very often Canon but the bodies are huge.



Correct me if I am missing anything but regarding the speed needed for a sports and wildlife body. This can also be used to have faster video specs no? Maybe that is the main part this body will share the higher framerates. I wonder if Canon can come up with something nice regarding the low light performance and dynamic range as well. But we can't expect too much I assume from Canon for just an APS-C body.


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## twoheadedboy (Jan 6, 2021)

LensFungus said:


> Two touch bars. \o/



3D haptic/gesture touch bars, push hard and turn the control ring for ISO, push medium for aperture, push light for shutter, double-tap and hold for focus, triple-tap for program settings. Everyone will love it!


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## -pekr- (Jan 6, 2021)

gzroxas said:


> I would really love to have a Camera that mixes the EOS R and R6: give it the new sensor tech, IBIS and dual slots, autofocus. Reduce the number of FPS to 8-10 max. FF4k and 1080p 120.
> Megapixel count can be in between 20 and 30, just to have a little more room for cropping than 20mp and to enjoy the glorious sharpness of RF lenses a bit more.
> 
> Basically what people expected the original R to be, an evolved A7III like camera.
> ...



It's absolutly not just you. We've got a 5DIV for weddings and I am somehow reluctant to go down to 20mpx. Asked my wife, how much she crops, maybe not that much, but sometimes we do and then we print up to cca A2 metric format. So curious if the camera under the R6 could have more megapixels, hence a new sensor? But then what would Canon leave off, to have it cheaper than the R6?


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## mdcmdcmdc (Jan 6, 2021)

This is exciting news!

>> The source claims that the new APS-C RF mount camera will be “directly aimed at sports, wildlife and videography”.

The first two sound like the mirrorless 7D many of us have been wishing for. Not sure what "videography" means. 4K and a flippy screen? I'd expect that to be a given at this point.


>> ...the most affordable full-frame camera Canon has ever made...

Just being persnickety, but I assume this means *digital* full frame. Those 35mm Snappy P&S's were pretty affordable back in the day. 

Seriously though, this is all very good news.

Is Canon going to fill out the RF lens lineup to match the broader (=less expensive) range of bodies? Right now it seems the RF lenses are mainly L's.


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## Deleted member 68328 (Jan 6, 2021)

... And the Canon 5D Mark V


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## slclick (Jan 6, 2021)

My 5D3 still works wonderfully, even with over 200k shutter actuations but maybe I can be teased into finally going ML.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 6, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> It's absolutly not just you. We've got a 5DIV for weddings and I am somehow reluctant to go down to 20mpx. Asked my wife, how much she crops, maybe not that much, but sometimes we do and then we print up to cca A2 metric format. So curious if the camera under the R6 could have more megapixels, hence a new sensor? But then what would Canon leave off, to have it cheaper than the R6?


My primary cameras are 20mp and I have a Canon Pro-2000, printing 16”x24” from 20mp files really isn’t difficult even if you crop. Of course it does help if you get your framing pretty close, but software is so good nowadays and techniques for maximizing what you have are so advanced the only reason I’d like a higher resolution body is for archival purposes And the desire to not fall too far behind in current tech.


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## Swerky (Jan 6, 2021)

For the new entry level cameras, wonder if they'll have rehashed sensor or new designs. Whatever, for the upper range one, hope the resolution would be between 25 and 30mpx, 8-10 FPS burst speed, decent video (don't care much to describe but won't be R6 level), ibis and don't forget the joystick please. I'd prefer the top panel over a second sd card slot.


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## JustUs7 (Jan 6, 2021)

I’d settle for a value RF crop body. I know there’s the M lineup. But something like the RP with a modest 24 megapixel crop sensor to put the 24-240 on would be a great second body. Or to use the 35 1.8 as a 50 ish lens indoors.

But maybe then M would really be *******.


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## dolina (Jan 6, 2021)

Will anyone speculate on a very realistic price points of these bodies?

I am fairly certain they will cost about 10% more than the introductory price of the models they are replacing. 

$7,199 R1 vs $6,499 1D X Mark III
$4,099 R5s vs $3,699 5Ds
$1,999 R7 vs $1,799 7D Mark II
Edit: Added the introductory price of the dSLR bodies that the mirrorless bodies directly replaces


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## tron (Jan 6, 2021)

dwarven said:


> My wallet is *******.


My wallet is tired already! Add to that the 100-500 and that's it. It will have to rest for a year after that.
And no more cameras for me. My R5, 5DIV, 5DsR and 90D told me that they will not tolerate anything else!


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## Kit. (Jan 6, 2021)

I wonder if it's feasible to create a 8K Super 35 sensor camera in RF mount with (additional) 3:2 format crop and mechanical shutter (at least EFCS) for stills.

Would be more expensive than "a 7D replacement", though.


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## TravelerNick (Jan 6, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> This is exciting news!
> 
> >> The source claims that the new APS-C RF mount camera will be “directly aimed at sports, wildlife and videography”.
> 
> ...


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## StoicalEtcher (Jan 6, 2021)

dolina said:


> Will anyone speculate on a very realistic price points of these bodies?
> 
> I am fairly certain they will cost about 10% more than the introductory price of the models they are replacing.
> 
> ...


Happy to join the speculation, for fun, I would go as follows:

$7,199 R1 - I reckon they may just want to beat the $7k level - so, *$6,999*
$4,099 R5s - maybe a bit more of a premium over R5 price, so, say, *$4,250*
$1,999 R7 - *agree* with you (though to judge by apparent demand on CR, they could charge $3,000 and get many takers.
Cheers!


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## dwarven (Jan 6, 2021)

dolina said:


> Will anyone speculate on a very realistic price points of these bodies?
> 
> I am fairly certain they will cost about 10% more than the introductory price of the models they are replacing.
> 
> ...



I think the R1 will come in under $7k for sure. $2k for the R7 is probably right, although I highly doubt it would stay that price for long. We would probably see a price drop to $1800 pretty quickly. Nikon likely has a higher end Z70 in the works, and there is no way Sony is going to let Fuji and Canon run free in the pro tier APS-C market. Also, full frame bodies are cheaper now than they ever have been, no longer making a high end APS-C body an obvious upgrade. As for the R5s, it's hard to say, but I think probably under $4k, unless it totally eats the R5.


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## dolina (Jan 6, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Happy to join the speculation, for fun, I would go as follows:
> 
> $7,199 R1 - I reckon they may just want to beat the $7k level - so, *$6,999*
> $4,099 R5s - maybe a bit more of a premium over R5 price, so, say, *$4,250*
> ...


Will those price points help surpass 8,461,490 ILCs shipped in 2019?

For 11 of 12 months of 2020 CIPA reports only 4,789,371 ILCs shipped thus far as COVID-19 disrupted the supply chain and disrupted events that required purchase of new camera hardware.

December numbers will be out after Jan 21.


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## vangelismm (Jan 6, 2021)

So, the cheap FF is the EF-m Killer?


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## mdcmdcmdc (Jan 6, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Happy to join the speculation, for fun, I would go as follows:
> 
> $7,199 R1 - I reckon they may just want to beat the $7k level - so, *$6,999*
> $4,099 R5s - maybe a bit more of a premium over R5 price, so, say, *$4,250*
> ...



The only one I've given any thought to is the R7. Much as I'd love to see it for $2000, that's about the same as the 7Dii intro price ($1799) adjusted from 2014 dollars to 2021. My bet is $2300.


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## Aregal (Jan 6, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I just want a full frame camera that shoots 4K 10bit 4:2:2 and 45MP stills in a weather sealed body....oh wait, I have the R5 already. Haha. Jokes aside, the next camera I would be excited about would bee a full frame variant of the C70. Full frame DGO would be the bee's knees.


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## fred (Jan 6, 2021)

If the R6 had the same build quality and ergonomics (e.g. shoulder display, stills/video switch) as the R5, I would switch over from Nikon. One thing that Nikon got right is that they kept the exact same body for Z6 and Z7 just with different sensors and video specs. Sadly, there is nothing on the horizon that could match the Z6II in that regard. Also, even though it is probably the 1DXIII sensor, 20MP for €2600 is really disappointing, especially given that the Sony A7IV will most likely have a brand new 30MP sensor...


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## reef58 (Jan 6, 2021)

tron said:


> My wallet is tired already! Add to that the 100-500 and that's it. It will have to rest for a year after that.
> And no more cameras for me. My R5, 5DIV, 5DsR and 90D told me that they will not tolerate anything else!



Just think how sweet that 100-500 will be with the crop body.


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2021)

Nigel95 said:


> "APS-C RF mount camera will be “directly aimed at sports, wildlife and videography”."
> 
> This is amazing news for me personally. Hope I can replace my 200d to have much better video features while keep using my current glass with an adapter. Hopefully it will include sharp detailed 4k 60p 10 bit, 1080 120fps, IBIS, C log and animal eye AF. I am willing to pay for it even if it's similar priced as the R6.
> 
> ...


I do hope so - to get Sony and Nikon moving with their own versions. I don't see why Canon feels need to do all this in one go - space it out, is there a need to do a 90mp R5 in 2021.


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## R1-7D (Jan 6, 2021)

Really looking forward to the high resolution body, too!


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## FramerMCB (Jan 6, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I'm eager to see the specs for the R1 and R5s. I'd love to hear of a possible development of a R5a (astro version) but it looks like it's not on anyone's radar yet. Oh well, 8 or so new bodies isn't so bad.


Canon already has the Ra for astrophotography.


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## unfocused (Jan 6, 2021)

dolina said:


> Will anyone speculate on a very realistic price points of these bodies?
> 
> I am fairly certain they will cost about 10% more than the introductory price of the models they are replacing.
> 
> ...


I'll play.

$6,499 for the R1 -- Canon will keep these two at about the same price. The buyers of the 1 series bodies are Canon's most conservative customers and aren't really clamoring for a mirrorless. Canon can't charge a premium for mirrorless and expect to gain acceptance of mirrorless by 1 series owners.

Agree with about $4,099 for the R5s, but not because of the 5Ds, but rather because it needs to be more than the R5, but not that much more.

Agree with @mdcmdcmdc that the R7 will be closer to $2,300, maybe more. This is a niche body that Canon is offering to satisfy wildlife, bird and sports photographers, and they will make those buyers pay a premium for the body. This will not be a bargain like the 7DII was. If the full frame R5s is around $4,000 and this body has similar specs, it will be an incredible bargain at $2,300. If it doesn't have similar specs, the target audience won't buy it.


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## unfocused (Jan 6, 2021)

Mostly I'm just pleased that we may finally be getting some clarity to what Canon is planning. From a personal standpoint, I'm planning a post-retirement trip of a lifetime in mid-2022 and plan on new bodies and lenses for myself and my wife. Having clarity about the R series will help me plan.


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## tron (Jan 6, 2021)

reef58 said:


> Just think how sweet that 100-500 will be with the crop body.


The image of a person holding a cross in front of a zombi comes to mind


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## Aaron D (Jan 6, 2021)

Not gonna happen, but with the high-res body I'd love to see Canon abandon the 2:3 ratio and go 3:4 like MF cameras. Or 4:5 even. That 'full-frame' albatross has nothing to do with anything but maximizing image area on 35mm movie film stock. No film! Be free!


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## usern4cr (Jan 6, 2021)

FramerMCB said:


> Canon already has the Ra for astrophotography.


Yes they do. But they do not have a R5a.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Jan 6, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> Not gonna happen, but with the high-res body I'd love to see Canon abandon the 2:3 ratio and go 3:4 like MF cameras. Or 4:5 even. That 'full-frame' albatross has nothing to do with anything but maximizing image area on 35mm movie film stock. No film! Be free!


If you want to abandon legacy film formats, why go to the medium format film standard of 3:4? Why not do 16:9, which is what most monitors do today (1080P, 4K, 8K). The world has gone digital, after all!


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## ctk (Jan 6, 2021)

If that tweener body has IBIS and sensor performance comparable to my R I am in. A Canon Z5 would be perfect.


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## dlee13 (Jan 6, 2021)

gzroxas said:


> I would really love to have a Camera that mixes the EOS R and R6: give it the new sensor tech, IBIS and dual slots, autofocus. Reduce the number of FPS to 8-10 max. FF4k and 1080p 120.
> Megapixel count can be in between 20 and 30, just to have a little more room for cropping than 20mp and to enjoy the glorious sharpness of RF lenses a bit more.
> 
> Basically what people expected the original R to be, an evolved A7III like camera.
> ...



As someone who sold their A7III for an R6 I would say the R6 is quite a big upgrade over the A7III in everything aside from megapixels.


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## adrian_bacon (Jan 6, 2021)

I'd be pretty happy with an RF camera about the size (or smaller) of a 7DMkII with the same sensor as the 90D, but with the same digic-x as the R5 and R6 with full sensor width readout scaled down to 4K. That would be pretty nice. A new RP with an updated sensor and R would also be nice.


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## w16gym (Jan 6, 2021)

Would love a 5D Mrk5


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## David - Sydney (Jan 6, 2021)

Anyone like to setup a table of features/differentiators for each camera (price, mp, fps, max video rate, dual/single card, etc)? By descending price...
R1
R5s
R5
R6
R7? (APS-C?)
R8? full frame
R9? full Frame

I get that an APS-C sensor will be great for birders IF it has a greater pixel density than the R5 ie >17mp. It could be a cut down version of the R5s given the rumour is for >2x R5 ie ~100mp. How that fits into enhanced videography is a good question. It won't be an A7Siii competitor in that case.
The smaller sensor should give a cost benefit but that would fit into a lower end version to replace the M system. Ideally, the M5ii's 32mp sensor put into a RF mount would be a good match but that doesn't fit the full frame rumour.

I think that a full frame entry level will be a great second body for R5/R6 etc.


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## David - Sydney (Jan 6, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> Not gonna happen, but with the high-res body I'd love to see Canon abandon the 2:3 ratio and go 3:4 like MF cameras. Or 4:5 even. That 'full-frame' albatross has nothing to do with anything but maximizing image area on 35mm movie film stock. No film! Be free!


Video is now an essential feature so this is the opposite to the ratios you mention with 16:9 etc being needed.


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## wsmith96 (Jan 6, 2021)

Looks like another busy year for Canon. Looking forward to seeing the specs on the APS-C R sports/wildlife camera. Still happy with my 5D4 and 7D2 for now though, but that R6 is very tempting as a 5D replacement.


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## wsmith96 (Jan 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Anyone like to setup a table of features/differentiators for each camera (price, mp, fps, max video rate, dual/single card, etc)? By descending price...
> R1
> R5s
> R5
> ...



How's this for a summary

R1 - the badass
R5s - more megapixels than you know what to do with
R5 - the durable all rounder
R6 - the less durable all rounder with a few detuned features that will leave you wanting the badass or the all rounder
R7? (APS-C?) - the badass's mini me
R8? full frame - slower than the R6, most of the features
R9? full Frame - bare bones, slow, but still great image quality


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## Aaron D (Jan 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Video is now an essential feature so this is the opposite to the ratios you mention with 16:9 etc being needed.


I said "high-res body". A 100MP sensor doesn't make any sense for video does it? I also said "I'd love to see..." I'm not even TRYING to satisfy the blog-o-masses.


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## dwarven (Jan 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I get that an APS-C sensor will be great for birders IF it has a greater pixel density than the R5 ie >17mp.



It's not just that. People also shoot APS-C because it's a lighter kit, and it's cheaper. That's also why some use micro 4/3, for an even more dramatic benefit than APS-C.


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## David - Sydney (Jan 7, 2021)

dwarven said:


> It's not just that. People also shoot APS-C because it's a lighter kit, and it's cheaper. That's also why some use micro 4/3, for an even more dramatic benefit than APS-C.


With RF mount, it will not necessarily be lighter as the mount is dictating that. The 7D is heavier than the 6D. Yes, the rebels are lighter but that is due to the body construction rather than the sensor size.
A smaller sensor is cheaper but the rumour has a cheaper full frame under the RP which is already the cheapest full frame on the market. A 7D replacement is likely to be as expensive as the R and maybe R6 if the fps/AF/dual cards etc are maintained


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## David - Sydney (Jan 7, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> I said "high-res body". A 100MP sensor doesn't make any sense for video does it? I also said "I'd love to see..." I'm not even TRYING to satisfy the blog-o-masses.


Of course it does 
12k video is 12288 x 6480 ie ~80mp but that is video aspect ratio so 3:2 would be ~100mp stills = perfect!
Is there a market for 12k hybrid cameras? Good question but the Ursa Mini Pro is currently available and the R5 broke new ground to have a 8k hybrid


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## slclick (Jan 7, 2021)

dwarven said:


> It's not just that. People also shoot APS-C because it's a lighter kit, and it's cheaper. That's also why some use micro 4/3, for an even more dramatic benefit than APS-C.


*ahem...great for birders. I think that part wasn't aimed at the smaller lighter crowd....sure, a few are out there but most come from the 7D world, correct me if I'm wrong about that, I'm ok with being wrong.


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## Mr Majestyk (Jan 7, 2021)

Tokyo Olympics should be cancelled, Japan is delusional to think it can still run. 

New sensor technology for Canon might just mean "hey, we finally got around to offering BSI for our loyal customers"


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## dwarven (Jan 7, 2021)

slclick said:


> *ahem...great for birders. I think that part wasn't aimed at the smaller lighter crowd....sure, a few are out there but most come from the 7D world, correct me if I'm wrong about that, I'm ok with being wrong.



Yeah, although you can make a 400mm work for birds on an APS-C body. Not so much if you're using full frame. I guess what I meant was cheaper and lighter than a 600mm f/4 strapped to an R5. And, consider m4/3. I have an Oly M5 Mark III that I can use to shoot birds with one hand, albeit with not nearly as good IQ. But it's still a ton of fun. And that's really what wildlife photography is all about. At least for me.


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## slclick (Jan 7, 2021)

dwarven said:


> Yeah, although you can make a 400mm work for birds on an APS-C body. Not so much if you're using full frame. I guess what I meant was cheaper and lighter than a 600mm f/4 strapped to an R5. And, consider m4/3. I have an Oly M5 Mark III that I can use to shoot birds with one hand, albeit with not nearly as good IQ. But it's still a ton of fun. And that's really what wildlife photography is all about. At least for me.


Ok, but then you added 'fun' which like my Lensbaby use, it kind of throws out the entire point which is great photography and not snapshots or images which require a ton of post. Large glass balances well with a bigger bodies. From my personal experience, when I think of higher end crop Canon use for other than travel, I think of the 7D. Same size as all/most FF bodies. (talking about this sure beats the disgust/anger/anxiety of everything else happening in my country today) Cheers!


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## dwarven (Jan 7, 2021)

slclick said:


> Ok, but then you added 'fun' which like my Lensbaby use, it kind of throws out the entire point which is great photography and not snapshots or images which require a ton of post.



Now hold on. I didn't say smaller systems can't produce "good photography" just because they're fun. I said the ease of use of a small body is fun for me. The idea that "good" photography is dependent on or even related to the system you're using is incredibly silly. To say otherwise would certainly be an insult to the photographer. It's almost irrelevant, actually, beyond any physical limitations like needing a certain focal length. It would be like saying "sorry Michelangelo, you drew that with a pencil instead of painting it with oils. I guess it's not good."


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## mpeeps (Jan 7, 2021)

dwarven said:


> It's not just that. People also shoot APS-C because it's a lighter kit, and it's cheaper. That's also why some use micro 4/3, for an even more dramatic benefit than APS-C.


It won't be lighter. I doubt that there will be RF-S lenses, but could be wrong about that. My 7D and lenses were not much lighter than FF.


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## Tangent (Jan 7, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Yes they do. But they do not have a R5a.



An R5s (high-res) with pixel-shift, if that is indeed one of its new features, would be great for astrophotpgraphy. Make an improved implementation, taking the pixel-shift stuff already on the market as a baseline. 

Hey, Canon, go ahead and put in pixel-shift along with IBIS on the "RII", too, please. That would be quite handy.


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## SUNDOG04 (Jan 7, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> It's absolutly not just you. We've got a 5DIV for weddings and I am somehow reluctant to go down to 20mpx. Asked my wife, how much she crops, maybe not that much, but sometimes we do and then we print up to cca A2 metric format. So curious if the camera under the R6 could have more megapixels, hence a new sensor? But then what would Canon leave off, to have it cheaper than the R6?


A cheaper R6 would be interesting, possibly down to the level of a Nikon Z6 II. Currently, the extra expense of an R6 is not worth the extra expense over a Z6II at least for my purpose of mostly landscape photography.


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## slclick (Jan 7, 2021)

dwarven said:


> Now hold on. I didn't say smaller systems can't produce "good photography" just because they're fun. I said the ease of use of a small body is fun for me. The idea that "good" photography is dependent on or even related to the system you're using is incredibly silly. To say otherwise would certainly be an insult to the photographer. It's almost irrelevant, actually, beyond any physical limitations like needing a certain focal length. It would be like saying "sorry Michelangelo, you drew that with a pencil instead of painting it with oils. I guess it's not good.
> 
> 
> dwarven said:
> ...


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## mpb001 (Jan 7, 2021)

I think of these forthcoming cameras, I am probably most interested in a camera between the R and R6 if it has IBIS. The replacement for the RP sounds interesting but I don’t think it will have IBIS at $899 but Id love to be wrong.


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## CDR (Jan 7, 2021)

Bring on the R7 - will be a great addition to my R5 for wildlife!


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## TravelerNick (Jan 7, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> I said "high-res body". A 100MP sensor doesn't make any sense for video does it? I also said "I'd love to see..." I'm not even TRYING to satisfy the blog-o-masses.



Tell that to Fuji.

100MP doesn't make much sense for portraits so why a portrait format?


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## Chig (Jan 7, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> If you want to abandon legacy film formats, why go to the medium format film standard of 3:4? Why not do 16:9, which is what most monitors do today (1080P, 4K, 8K). The world has gone digital, after all!


Why not square ?


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## David - Sydney (Jan 7, 2021)

mpeeps said:


> It won't be lighter. I doubt that there will be RF-S lenses, but could be wrong about that. My 7D and lenses were not much lighter than FF.


With APS-C in RF mount then there is only 2 options for wide angle and that is adapted EF-S lenses or RF-S lenses. Equivalent to EF-S, RF-S lenses would be a quality zoom (not L), basic zoom and maybe a wide prime


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## landon (Jan 7, 2021)

No knowledge of C90? Not even an estimate announcement date? First half or second half of 2021?


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## masterpix (Jan 7, 2021)

Sounds exciting, just wonder if my bank manager will liek the idea...


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## -pekr- (Jan 7, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> My primary cameras are 20mp and I have a Canon Pro-2000, printing 16”x24” from 20mp files really isn’t difficult even if you crop. Of course it does help if you get your framing pretty close, but software is so good nowadays and techniques for maximizing what you have are so advanced the only reason I’d like a higher resolution body is for archival purposes And the desire to not fall too far behind in current tech.



You are absolutly right and in fact, I can't hardly explain it rationally - it is mostly a psychological block, because I have got used to those 30mpx of the 5DIV  I also remember my xy years old post on dpreview, where I was upset at Canon, for going from 14 to 18 mpx, or something like that. Because .... I was worried about the high ISO performance back then.

As for R5 vs R6 .... still think, that if our money situation allows it, we will go for the R5. Both cameras are ultimate machines we have been long waiting for (in the mirrorless sense at least) from Canon. If R5 high iso is not worse more than 1/3 - 2/3 of a stop, I regard R5 (with possible future firmware updates) as being a nice machine to have for the 4-5+ years to come, or even more .... 

The more tricky situation for us is the lens - RF ones are not going to be usable on our 70D backup, but we might solve it going full mirrorless, using Rp or its coming successor as a backup, as nowadays, 70D is not a solid backup - it is just that so far, no Canon camera we have owned, failed on us, not even once.


----------



## RicoB (Jan 7, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> With APS-C in RF mount then there is only 2 options for wide angle and that is adapted EF-S lenses or RF-S lenses. Equivalent to EF-S, RF-S lenses would be a quality zoom (not L), basic zoom and maybe a wide prime



I bought an EOS RP in 2019 and since that time, Canon could not release an RF f/4L wide-angle lens. Their 3 affordable primes are STM lenses that have a protruding front element (except the 50mm I think but that one got bad reviews for harsh CA) and you have to watch that element retract like a robot every time you power down the camera.

Their L prime lenses and 15-35 2.8 are probably spectacular but you have to sell a human organ to purchase one and will need help carrying them. I have the 24-105 f4L and it’s a beautiful lens but it’s fairly heavy. I was waiting for only 2 lenses: a wide angle f4L and 85mm 1.8 USM prime (not a slow STM macro) and they could not deliver in all this time.

For this reason I’m going to be switching systems instead of waiting. I don’t have any EF lenses and it didn’t make sense to purchase older EF lenses and adapt them now that we are what? 2 years and 4-months into the RF mount? You could argue that the pandemic affected things but Nikon released a slew of highly rated affordable lenses for their Z mount. Ridiculous Canon!


----------



## -pekr- (Jan 7, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> Not gonna happen, but with the high-res body I'd love to see Canon abandon the 2:3 ratio and go 3:4 like MF cameras. Or 4:5 even. That 'full-frame' albatross has nothing to do with anything but maximizing image area on 35mm movie film stock. No film! Be free!



My DNP minilab printer does not agree with the departure of the 3:2 format


----------



## David - Sydney (Jan 7, 2021)

RicoB said:


> I bought an EOS RP in 2019 and since that time, Canon could not release an RF f/4L wide-angle lens. Their 3 affordable primes are STM lenses that have a protruding front element (except the 50mm I think but that one got bad reviews for harsh CA) and you have to watch that element retract like a robot every time you power down the camera.
> 
> Their L prime lenses and 15-35 2.8 are probably spectacular but you have to sell a human organ to purchase one and will need help carrying them. I have the 24-105 f4L and it’s a beautiful lens but it’s fairly heavy. I was waiting for only 2 lenses: a wide angle f4L and 85mm 1.8 USM prime (not a slow STM macro) and they could not deliver in all this time.
> 
> For this reason I’m going to be switching systems instead of waiting. I don’t have any EF lenses and it didn’t make sense to purchase older EF lenses and adapt them now that we are what? 2 years and 4-months into the RF mount? You could argue that the pandemic affected things but Nikon released a slew of highly rated affordable lenses for their Z mount. Ridiculous Canon!


Happy for you to switch systems. Pick the one that best suits your needs.
It is clear that Canon has been slow for reasonably priced RF lenses. Not sure how much Covid has to blame for this.
I still use my EF lenses very often and have no issues with them. If you are concerned about price, then buy second hand as the prices are dropping with more people moving to RF mount (as I did). Even if Canon brought out a RF16-35mm/4 today I wouldn't buy it... the EF version is great for landscape/seascape and I don't need better AF etc. The bleeding edge cost will also be high. I bought the RF 70-200mm and RF 100-500mm on sale and they are still expensive but worth it!!


----------



## -pekr- (Jan 7, 2021)

mpb001 said:


> I think of these forthcoming cameras, I am probably most interested in a camera between the R and R6 if it has IBIS. The replacement for the RP sounds interesting but I don’t think it will have IBIS at $899 but Id love to be wrong.



IBIS should imo be regarded being a commodity. I can't imagine any future FF camera not having one. At least for me, it is DOA then ...


----------



## TravelerNick (Jan 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> Why not square ?



Square was good for saving film for some portraits. Other than that? Full frame MF was 6x9.


----------



## degos (Jan 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> Why not square ?



Or circular, to match the lens image projection!


----------



## dolina (Jan 7, 2021)

Tangent said:


> An R5s (high-res) with pixel-shift, if that is indeed one of its new features, would be great for astrophotpgraphy. Make an improved implementation, taking the pixel-shift stuff already on the market as a baseline.
> 
> Hey, Canon, go ahead and put in pixel-shift along with IBIS on the "RII", too, please. That would be quite handy.


All previous Canon astro bodies were all APS-C. The Ra is the first full frame body.


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## gzroxas (Jan 7, 2021)

dlee13 said:


> As someone who sold their A7III for an R6 I would say the R6 is quite a big upgrade over the A7III in everything aside from megapixels.



Yep to be honest I agree with you, I believe the R6 really has such a nice feature set. I’m just a bit annoyed that I mostly shoot landscapes (for travel purposes) and a bit of portraiture and dropping from the 30mp of the R to the 20 of the R6 makes me a little afraid of losing details, especially considering how good RF lenses are.

But I can’t argue that the R6 is an underrated and truly wonderful camera


----------



## gzroxas (Jan 7, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> It's absolutly not just you. We've got a 5DIV for weddings and I am somehow reluctant to go down to 20mpx. Asked my wife, how much she crops, maybe not that much, but sometimes we do and then we print up to cca A2 metric format. So curious if the camera under the R6 could have more megapixels, hence a new sensor? But then what would Canon leave off, to have it cheaper than the R6?


I’m with you on the reluctance of losing 1/3 of the resolution of the R. In my dreams, they would justify the lower price with a lower speed (8-10 fps), but it’s pretty evident that they just won’t do it. Maybe they could stop at 4k30 (maybe downsized from 6k like the A7III does, with 24mp) and call it a day.
Would be a nice ergonomic and feature set upgrade from the R, while only losing 6mp


----------



## jd7 (Jan 7, 2021)

gzroxas said:


> I’m with you on the reluctance of losing 1/3 of the resolution of the R. In my dreams, they would justify the lower speed (8-10 fps) for a lower price, but it’s pretty evident that they just won’t do it. Maybe they could stop at 4k30 (maybe downsized from 6k like the A7III does, with 24mp) and call it a day.
> Would be a nice ergonomic and feature set upgrade from the R, while only losing 6mp


I hope you are wrong that Canon won't do it, atlthough I fear you may well be right. A camera with 8 to 10 FPS (with AF tracking), at least close to 30 MP and IBIS might get me interested, if the price was right. Will be interesting to see how the A7 IV compares when it arrives (and Sony's asking price for it!).


----------



## koenkooi (Jan 7, 2021)

gzroxas said:


> I’m with you on the reluctance of losing 1/3 of the resolution of the R.[..]



A bit of apples vs oranges, but shooting the RP (26MP) and the 1DX3 (20MP) side by side in the field during dawn, the 1DX3 pictures had as much detail as the RP ones when viewed fullscreen. The combination of less colour noise, less noise overall and the new low-pass filter made a huge pixel level difference, making up for the 'missing' 6MP.

The 5D4/R sensor is better than the RP one, so my advice would be to borrow/rent an R6 for a straight comparison.


----------



## degos (Jan 7, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> IBIS should imo be regarded being a commodity. I can't imagine any future FF camera not having one. At least for me, it is DOA then ...



My concern with IBIS is that it's an incredibly intricate electromechanical system subjected to constant use and shocks. We don't really know what the longevity will be in normal use.

At least if a lens IS fails, it doesn't affect the body or other lenses.


----------



## gzroxas (Jan 7, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> A bit of apples vs oranges, but shooting the RP (26MP) and the 1DX3 (20MP) side by side in the field during dawn, the 1DX3 pictures had as much detail as the RP ones when viewed fullscreen. The combination of less colour noise, less noise overall and the new low-pass filter made a huge pixel level difference, making up for the 'missing' 6MP.
> 
> The 5D4/R sensor is better than the RP one, so my advice would be to borrow/rent an R6 for a straight comparison.


Yeah, I’ve also seen many comparisons showing how little difference there actually is between the 1DXIII (and R6) sensor and that of the RP and R (in terms of resolution alone), it’s really a non-issue, but psychologically it has its weight, for some weird reason.
I can’t wait for Canon to bring back the live events: I have so many cameras and lenses I want to try out. 15-35, 70-200, the 1.2 primes. Too much amazing stuff!


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Jan 7, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Happy to join the speculation, for fun, I would go as follows:
> 
> $7,199 R1 - I reckon they may just want to beat the $7k level - so, *$6,999*
> $4,099 R5s - maybe a bit more of a premium over R5 price, so, say, *$4,250*
> ...


I’ve got a feeling canon will bump the R7 price up a touch.. I’m guessing $2400.


----------



## LesC (Jan 7, 2021)

Interested to see what the specs of the EOS R replacement might be. A replacement would normally improve on things like AF speed, frame rate & resolution, but then that surely make it as good as the R6 or better which doesn't make sense...


----------



## Fischer (Jan 7, 2021)

dlee13 said:


> As someone who sold their A7III for an R6 I would say the R6 is quite a big upgrade over the A7III in everything aside from megapixels.


Got the R6 while waiting for the High-MPIX R. Much better in use than the original R. Canon now got mirrorless right. But MPIX matters and I can hardly wait for the RS to come out.


----------



## Fischer (Jan 7, 2021)

degos said:


> My concern with IBIS is that it's an incredibly intricate electromechanical system subjected to constant use and shocks. We don't really know what the longevity will be in normal use.
> 
> At least if a lens IS fails, it doesn't affect the body or other lenses.


Hardly an issue. We Canon shooters lived (far too) many years without. If it breaks after 5-6 years and you for whatever reason still have the body - just continue shooting without.


----------



## mclaren777 (Jan 7, 2021)

I am becoming increasingly worried that Canon will never make a 5DV.


----------



## wsmith96 (Jan 7, 2021)

mclaren777 said:


> I am becoming increasingly worried that Canon will never make a 5DV.



I thought that was pretty much a done deal - no 5dV. Is that not correct?


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> Why not square ?


When I had the Olympus EM1_II camera with their small sensor (hindering sales vs. APS-C and FF), I often suggested that Olympus come out with a square sensor in a future camera so that they could get (& claim) more sensor area & MPixels from their existing lenses and help their poor sales, and have a camera that didn't need to be rotated to take vertical shots. Of course nothing happened.

I was surprised that some would suggest Canon come out with a different FF format, including square, for a mainstream consumer camera here. If Canon ever did do it, it will be from pressure to go to even wider horizontal formats that have taken over large TV and (possibly) phone displays. Square formats, while ideal (IMHO) to get the maximum (straight edge) sensor coverage of a camera image circle and elimination of camera portrait rotation, just won't happen for a mainstream camera because it is far too costly to make a new sensor and body for it in a mainstream camera and there is little demand for it.


----------



## John Wilde (Jan 7, 2021)

"...the most affordable full-frame camera Canon has ever made" would need to matched with equally affordable new lenses.


----------



## AccipiterQ (Jan 7, 2021)

Guessing game: How many MP will the R7 be? 28?


----------



## AccipiterQ (Jan 7, 2021)

CDR said:


> Bring on the R7 - will be a great addition to my R5 for wildlife!



I agree. I love the R5 for wildlife, but I am finding (still early in the learning curve) that for smaller birds I actually DO need the extra reach I get with the 7Dii. R7 would obviously fix that...and if it's something like 28MP or something, that's an absolute home-run.


----------



## Maru (Jan 7, 2021)

i dont think these new cameras will be available in 2021 based on current production issues.. typically the R8/R9


----------



## NorthernNovice (Jan 7, 2021)

Did anyone else notice there is not CR rating on this rumor? Without a CR rating, I am not sure how to take this information.


----------



## John Wilde (Jan 7, 2021)

NorthernNovice said:


> Did anyone else notice there is not CR rating on this rumor? Without a CR rating, I am not sure how to take this information.


The pre-release [CR2] rumor of the M50 Mark II specs had the wrong sensor, wrong DIGIC, etc, so CR ratings don't make much difference.


----------



## Aaron D (Jan 7, 2021)

I'm really torn by the prospects of a high-res R5 version. I'm SO itching to get the current 45MP, but I've decided to stick with my 5Div and R for a while longer just to see what happens. High-res would be pretty useful in architectural so I hate to invest in a short term update. 

Kind of a moot point as I can't afford ANY new camera just now. Never mind friggin auto-focus TS lenses, for crying out loud.


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jan 7, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> Not gonna happen, but with the high-res body I'd love to see Canon abandon the 2:3 ratio and go 3:4 like MF cameras. Or 4:5 even. That 'full-frame' albatross has nothing to do with anything but maximizing image area on 35mm movie film stock. No film! Be free!


Yeah - nice idea, I'd like to see that too. Might make a few people's minds melt though....


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jan 7, 2021)

dolina said:


> Will those price points help surpass 8,461,490 ILCs shipped in 2019?
> 
> For 11 of 12 months of 2020 CIPA reports only 4,789,371 ILCs shipped thus far as COVID-19 disrupted the supply chain and disrupted events that required purchase of new camera hardware.
> 
> December numbers will be out after Jan 21.


Who knows - but I'm sure those prices (and those products being available) would help. 

No doubt the market is in decline, at least in terms of units shipped/sold. However, 2020 is really not going to be the year to make judgements on - as well as the points you raise, there were also so many consumer constraints - I know lots of people will purchase over the web these days, but for a good proportion, going into a shop and looking at the options, etc. is part of the camera buying process (more so if you're a newbie?). So, shops being closed will have sucked demand too. 

I have a number of clients who believe sales (not cameras - other goods) will have some pent-up demand once retailers are all open as normal again - so, subject to how it goes, 2021 may yet be a bumper year.....


----------



## dolina (Jan 7, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I have a number of clients who believe sales (not cameras - other goods) will have some pent-up demand once retailers are all open as normal again - so, subject to how it goes, 2021 may yet be a bumper year.....


I'm sure there will be pent up demand. I hope I can continue to buy into companies whose shares will rocket hours after I buy them.


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## Nigel95 (Jan 7, 2021)

dolina said:


> I'm sure there will be pent up demand. I hope I can continue to buy into companies whose shares will rocket hours after I buy them.


Flip a coin


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## dlee13 (Jan 7, 2021)

gzroxas said:


> Yep to be honest I agree with you, I believe the R6 really has such a nice feature set. I’m just a bit annoyed that I mostly shoot landscapes (for travel purposes) and a bit of portraiture and dropping from the 30mp of the R to the 20 of the R6 makes me a little afraid of losing details, especially considering how good RF lenses are.
> 
> But I can’t argue that the R6 is an underrated and truly wonderful camera



I can’t remember which reviewer said it so I can’t do a direct quote and can’t remember the exact terminology but they said with sensors there’s the amount of megapixels then the actual resolution. You could have two sensors, one 20mp and one 30mp, they could both resolve the same amount of sharpness and details but one just has more size and MP than the other but isn’t necessarily sharper if that makes sense. 

More would definitely be nice but everything about this camera like the DR, high ISO performance and autofocus are a huge step up over the 6DII. I remember when the 6DII came out (which I owned), many 6D users said they rather Canon keep the 20MP and just improve on stuff like DR and banding in shadows.


----------



## xps (Jan 7, 2021)

dolina said:


> Will anyone speculate on a very realistic price points of these bodies?
> 
> I am fairly certain they will cost about 10% more than the introductory price of the models they are replacing.
> 
> ...


My thoughts (prices include 19%VAT in Germany):
R1 7499-7999€ (if the MP count is 40MP or above with 20-25fps, maybe 8499)
R5s 4999€
R7 2699-2999€ (Everybody is waiting for this body - the can require each price under 3000 for it)

Canon will try to milk us.
They are not Apple, but they are on the way to their pricing policy. Some month ago - if you would have said, you´ve to spend 4499€ here in Germany for the R5 , no one would have beleived in this high price. Also not in the prices for the zooms

I´m more afraid of the prices of the primes. Wild french rumors see the RF 600mm @ 14599€ in Germany, the 800mm near 16599... This would be a little bit to much for my wallet.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jan 7, 2021)

degos said:


> My concern with IBIS is that it's an incredibly intricate electromechanical system subjected to constant use and shocks. We don't really know what the longevity will be in normal use.
> At least if a lens IS fails, it doesn't affect the body or other lenses.


Well, Canon Australia provides a 5 year warranty so IBIS will be covered for that time period.


----------



## dolina (Jan 7, 2021)

xps said:


> Canon will try to milk us.
> They are not Apple, but they are on the way to their pricing policy.
> 
> I´m more afraid of the prices of the primes. Wild french rumors see rhe RF 600mm @ 15999€ in Germany, the 800mm near 17000... This would be a little bit to much for my wallet.


Canon has no choice if they want to stay solvent.

In 2012 ILCs used to ship more than 20.1 million units. 2019 it was less than 8.5 million. By 2025/2026 ILCs will not ship more than 6 million units annually.

I expect these lenses to have significant weight reduction improvements.

$14,299 Canon RF 800mm f/5.6L IS USM @ less than 2.9kg from 4.5kg
$14,299 Canon RF 600mm f/4L IS USM @ less than 2.8kg from from 3.05kg
Believe you me it's worth the $2,000 premium to carry lighter gear.


----------



## drhuffman87 (Jan 7, 2021)

twoheadedboy said:


> 3D haptic/gesture touch bars, push hard and turn the control ring for ISO, push medium for aperture, push light for shutter, double-tap and hold for focus, triple-tap for program settings. Everyone will love it!



Maybe it can have user eye-detection as well so that when the photographer blinks it takes a picture with the silent shutter for super stealth mode.


----------



## tataylino (Jan 7, 2021)

I'm more excited on the lower cost FF camera. I hope they will still sell RP so it will priced below the new entry level FF camera. The RP is still expensive for my budget today.haha


----------



## criscokkat (Jan 7, 2021)

I'm wondering what sort of sensor will be in the new ultra cheap and replacement for the R. 

I'm actually wondering if it will be the same setup as the aps-c cameras. Just make one or two sensors and put them in everything, then add features to make them different. Less processing horespower/worse viewfinder in RP-lite, or even no viewfinder. Then one with bells and whistles priced under the R6 but not as fast as the R6. The R6 is in a weird place. I think a lot of people who have bought it simply because they couldn't afford the R5 price point. There are certainly sports and videographers that love the speed and focus, but there are a lot of people that could live in the 8-10 fps range if it didn't drastically drop in speed while tracking.


----------



## Arod820 (Jan 8, 2021)

Still waiting for my C70 I ordered a month ago. I think all these cameras will be out by the time I get it.


----------



## Lucas Tingley (Jan 8, 2021)

camera i would get in a heartbeat( if i had the money) would be a m6 mark ii speed and mp count, weather sealed and with the same number of af points, animal af and a mode dial woth the top lcd because it always bothers me to have to push a button and then spin the dial

call it the r4 maybe


----------



## Danglin52 (Jan 8, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> With RF mount, it will not necessarily be lighter as the mount is dictating that. The 7D is heavier than the 6D. Yes, the rebels are lighter but that is due to the body construction rather than the sensor size.
> A smaller sensor is cheaper but the rumour has a cheaper full frame under the RP which is already the cheapest full frame on the market. A 7D replacement is likely to be as expensive as the R and maybe R6 if the fps/AF/dual cards etc are maintained


The 7d/7dII were considered by many to be the 1dx mini me. Since Canon is in an aggressive mood, I think the R7 might have a similar relationship with the R1. I would not expect this camera to have a budget price.


----------



## mclaren777 (Jan 8, 2021)

wsmith96 said:


> I thought that was pretty much a done deal - no 5dV. Is that not correct?


I'm supremely disappointed that some of the AF tech in the 1DX3 won't be coming to the 5D series.

I really, really want to buy a few 5DVs.


----------



## Traveler (Jan 8, 2021)

I'm hoping for my EOS R replacement. The R5 is out of my budged and the R6 doesn't have the top LCD.


----------



## Maru (Jan 8, 2021)

Traveler said:


> I'm hoping for my EOS R replacement. The R5 is out of my budged and the R6 doesn't have the top LCD.


same here but i need 30mp...with ibis...dont care about other R6 features...but cant pay more than R6


----------



## Lucas Tingley (Jan 8, 2021)

Maru said:


> same here but i need 30mp...with ibis...dont care about other R6 features...but cant pay more than R6


basically a perfect camera with those specs


----------



## Traveler (Jan 8, 2021)

Maru said:


> same here but i need 30mp...with ibis...dont care about other R6 features...but cant pay more than R6


I don't want to pay more than for the R6 haha. It's already more expensive than the R. 20Mpix is alright for me though.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Jan 8, 2021)

mclaren777 said:


> I'm supremely disappointed that some of the AF tech in the 1DX3 won't be coming to the 5D series.
> 
> I really, really want to buy a few 5DVs.


Why not buy a few R5s then?


----------



## Stu_bert (Jan 8, 2021)

Just for fun....


ModelPriceResSensorIBISCropGSFPSMem CardSlotsMax VideoWeatherR1699945FFY17.5Y30CFE28K30BestR5S499990FFY35N8UHS24K302nd BestR5399945FFYn/aN20CFE, UHS28K302nd BestR7299932APSYn/aN20CFE, UHS24K1202nd BestR6249920FFYn/aN20UHS24K603rd BestR MK II199930FFNn/aN8UHS14K604th BestRP MK II119926FFNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th BestR9119932APSNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th Best




GS = Global Shutter
Crop = I think these two bodies will have hardware crop...
FPS - Electronic Max, not Mehanical.
Weather = Weather Sealing


----------



## dolina (Jan 8, 2021)

Stu_bert said:


> Just for fun....
> 
> 
> ModelPriceResSensorIBISCropGSFPSMem CardSlotsMax VideoWeatherR1699945FFY17.5Y30CFE28K30BestR5S499990FFY35N8UHS24K302nd BestR5399945FFYn/aN20CFE, UHS28K302nd BestR7299932APSYn/aN20CFE, UHS24K1202nd BestR6249920FFYn/aN20UHS24K603rd BestR MK II199930FFNn/aN8UHS14K604th BestRP MK II119926FFNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th BestR9119932APSNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th Best
> ...


With the sheer diversity of bodies one would think Canon will be shipping more than 5.7 million bodies per year.


----------



## Exploreshootshare (Jan 8, 2021)

degos said:


> My concern with IBIS is that it's an incredibly intricate electromechanical system subjected to constant use and shocks. We don't really know what the longevity will be in normal use.
> 
> At least if a lens IS fails, it doesn't affect the body or other lenses.



I am with you on that. A friend of mine works in a camera repair facility and he once told me that the No. 1 repair issue with Sony cameras are broken IBIS units. Therefore, I was always happy to have in-lense IS and no IBIS on my R because you know. how life goes: the IBIS will break when you need your camera most or no repair store is close 

At some point in the distant future (around 2023/2024) I´ll to buy a new camera (probably will have IBIS then) but I'll definitely keep my R as backup because I'm worried about not being able to use my camera due to broken IBIS or anything similar. Since I travel a lot (when there's no pandemic...) and I don't exactly "baby my gear" this is a major concern.


----------



## Nigel95 (Jan 8, 2021)

Stu_bert said:


> Just for fun....
> 
> 
> ModelPriceResSensorIBISCropGSFPSMem CardSlotsMax VideoWeatherR1699945FFY17.5Y30CFE28K30BestR5S499990FFY35N8UHS24K302nd BestR5399945FFYn/aN20CFE, UHS28K302nd BestR7299932APSYn/aN20CFE, UHS24K1202nd BestR6249920FFYn/aN20UHS24K603rd BestR MK II199930FFNn/aN8UHS14K604th BestRP MK II119926FFNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th BestR9119932APSNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th Best
> ...


Hope you are right with 4k 120 on the R7. I would buy it at that price. If 4k 60 and 1080 120 I would take it aswell for a bit less cost. Hopefully they will add C log 2 and 3 as well but probably asking too much...


----------



## Antono Refa (Jan 8, 2021)

I doubt Canon has invested in 5 stills cameras, and 3 cine cameras. That's a big investment in both R&D and manufacturing lines in a shrinking economy and corona crisis. I'm sure there are 7D & 1DX replacements in the pipe, as well as an 8K cinema camera, but not 8 cameras in one year.


----------



## max (Jan 8, 2021)

slclick said:


> My 5D3 still works wonderfully, even with over 200k shutter actuations but maybe I can be teased into finally going ML.


I just put mine up for sale with 168000! I thought it had 80.000... and still works great.
I want a R5 but probably getting a R6 because of the price.


----------



## max (Jan 8, 2021)

Stu_bert said:


> Just for fun....
> 
> 
> ModelPriceResSensorIBISCropGSFPSMem CardSlotsMax VideoWeatherR1699945FFY17.5Y30CFE28K30BestR5S499990FFY35N8UHS24K302nd BestR5399945FFYn/aN20CFE, UHS28K302nd BestR7299932APSYn/aN20CFE, UHS24K1202nd BestR6249920FFYn/aN20UHS24K603rd BestR MK II199930FFNn/aN8UHS14K604th BestRP MK II119926FFNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th BestR9119932APSNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th Best
> ...


no way APS-C for 3000 bucks.
The APS-H is long gone and I don't think it will be back now that cameras can crop in the viewfinder.


----------



## dolina (Jan 8, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> I doubt Canon has invested in 5 stills cameras, and 3 cine cameras. That's a big investment in both R&D and manufacturing lines in a shrinking economy and corona crisis. I'm sure there are 7D & 1DX replacements in the pipe, as well as an 8K cinema camera, but not 8 cameras in one year.


If we were to base the direction of Canon on the image sensor size of their point & shoots they may end up having ~80% full frame and ~20% APS-C bodies.

Canon currently holds 45.4% of the global DSC market for 2020. That is roughly

3.62 million out of 8.04 million total DSC
1.43 million out of 3.25 million point & shoots
2.18 million out of 4.79 million dSLRs
1.18 million out of 2.61 million mirrorless
Such low numbers will be a U shape that may settle by 2025/2026 with these numbers with Canon being more than 50%

3.5 million out of 7 million total DSC
0.3 million out of 0.6 million point & shoots
0.3 million out of 0.6 million dSLRs
2.9 million out of 5.8 million mirrorless


----------



## John Wilde (Jan 8, 2021)

xps said:


> My thoughts (prices include 19%VAT in Germany):
> R1 7499-7999€ (if the MP count is 40MP or above with 20-25fps, maybe 8499)
> R5s 4999€
> R7 2699-2999€ (Everybody is waiting for this body - the can require each price under 3000 for it)
> ...


Many companies use Price Skimming. Price Skimming Definition (investopedia.com)


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 8, 2021)

Aregal said:


> I just want a full frame camera that shoots 4K 10bit 4:2:2 and 45MP stills in a weather sealed body....oh wait, I have the R5 already. Haha. Jokes aside, the next camera I would be excited about would bee a full frame variant of the C70. Full frame DGO would be the bee's knees.


Canon said they could not get decent battery life with full-frame DGO which is why it was left out of C500.
ARRI Alexa LF and MINI LF get terrible battery life.


----------



## dolina (Jan 8, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Many companies use Price Skimming. Price Skimming Definition (investopedia.com)


Canon does that. As early as 2003 and as late as 2015 Canon kept to MSRP for at least 6 months and then do a price cut.

Like with the R5 if I were to buy one I'd look around for one after April.

The price skimming tries to balance supply with demand. After half a year demand will soften from the first adopters.

Also waiting for 6 months allows the brand to correct any bugs that may manifest.

5Ds R had Error20
7D Mark II had AF issue with long lenses
800mm & 200mm had a AF motor issue that created a higher than normal operational noise
With the R5 my guess would be that shutdown or overheating issue with recording at 8K?


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 8, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> I doubt Canon has invested in 5 stills cameras, and 3 cine cameras. That's a big investment in both R&D and manufacturing lines in a shrinking economy and corona crisis. I'm sure there are 7D & 1DX replacements in the pipe, as well as an 8K cinema camera, but not 8 cameras in one year.


1DX III and C500 II were announced in 2019 but did not really arrive until 2020.
RP, R5, R6, C300 III, C70, T8i, 90D, and M50 II all came out in 2020.


----------



## Andy Westwood (Jan 8, 2021)

Great news and exciting times ahead for the RF mount, however not a whisper of any new M Mount bodies coming in 2021 what happened to the M50 MkII. Canon produced a promo video but no chatter since, not that it is much of an update, we all know that!

I would like to see some new M bodies in 2021 and not just the M50 MkII, fun little cameras that can be taken seriously. I never fail to take mine with me on holiday… Ah! Holidays, maybe not right now ☹


----------



## JustUs7 (Jan 8, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> 1DX III and C500 II were announced in 2019 but did not really arrive until 2020.
> RP, R5, R6, C300 III, C70, T8i, 90D, and M50 II all came out in 2020.



We bought the RP in 2019 and the guy at the camera store had already had his for a couple months. Maybe depends on where you live?

They were still running the free adapter program at the time and $1,499 for the 24-240 kit. Free grip was no longer offered though.


----------



## twoheadedboy (Jan 8, 2021)

Andy Westwood said:


> Great news and exciting times ahead for the RF mount, however not a whisper of any new M Mount bodies coming in 2021 what happened to the M50 MkII. Canon produced a promo video but no chatter since, not that it is much of an update, we all know that!
> 
> I would like to see some new M bodies in 2021 and not just the M50 MkII, fun little cameras that can be taken seriously. I never fail to take mine with me on holiday… Ah! Holidays, maybe not right now ☹



Discussed here.


----------



## FramerMCB (Jan 8, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Yes they do. But they do not have a R5a.


I think the likelihood of Canon making an R5a is ~2.5% or less.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 8, 2021)

FramerMCB said:


> I think the likelihood of Canon making an R5a is ~2.5% or less.


You may be right about that. But one can always hope. It sure would be a good fit with a 85mm f1.2L on it.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 8, 2021)

How conservative is Canon?

Is it possible they'll do something in the alphabetic portion of the name to distinguish the APS-C camera(s)? Like call them the RC7, for example?

And is it possible the more entry level models could get a two digit model number?


----------



## esglord (Jan 8, 2021)

Stu_bert said:


> Just for fun....
> 
> 
> ModelPriceResSensorIBISCropGSFPSMem CardSlotsMax VideoWeatherR1699945FFY17.5Y30CFE28K30BestR5S499990FFY35N8UHS24K302nd BestR5399945FFYn/aN20CFE, UHS28K302nd BestR7299932APSYn/aN20CFE, UHS24K1202nd BestR6249920FFYn/aN20UHS24K603rd BestR MK II199930FFNn/aN8UHS14K604th BestRP MK II119926FFNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th BestR9119932APSNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th Best
> ...



Bump up the weather proofing one notch on that R Mk II, give me DPAF II, and take my money please Canon


----------



## slclick (Jan 8, 2021)

max said:


> I just put mine up for sale with 168000! I thought it had 80.000... and still works great.
> I want a R5 but probably getting a R6 because of the price.


I have to get the right camera body and not make my decision based upon price. So I wait and save....lol


----------



## Maru (Jan 8, 2021)

I dont expect RPmkii and Rmkii before end of 2022.


----------



## mdcmdcmdc (Jan 8, 2021)

Stu_bert said:


> Just for fun....
> 
> 
> ModelPriceResSensorIBISCropGSFPSMem CardSlotsMax VideoWeatherR1699945FFY17.5Y30CFE28K30BestR5S499990FFY35N8UHS24K302nd BestR5399945FFYn/aN20CFE, UHS28K302nd BestR7299932APSYn/aN20CFE, UHS24K1202nd BestR6249920FFYn/aN20UHS24K603rd BestR MK II199930FFNn/aN8UHS14K604th BestRP MK II119926FFNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th BestR9119932APSNn/aN6UHS14K30 Crop4th Best
> ...


Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I don't see the R7 at $3K. If you think of the R6 as the mirrorless continuation of the 6D line and the R7 as the mirrorless continuation of the 7D line, the 7D prices at introduction have always been less than the 6D's. I don't see $3K as competitive pricing for a pro-level APS-C body.


----------



## twoheadedboy (Jan 8, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I don't see the R7 at $3K. If you think of the R6 as the mirrorless continuation of the 6D line and the R7 as the mirrorless continuation of the 7D line, the 7D prices at introduction have always been less than the 6D's. I don't see $3K as competitive pricing for a pro-level APS-C body.



Agreed. They would have to come up with some wacky RF-S-only lenses that allowed you to do professional things on that body you couldn't do on full-frame, because at $3k it makes more sense to buy full-frame and extenders if you're after reach, and full-frame does most other things better (and RP/successor is small enough for size).


----------



## slclick (Jan 8, 2021)

twoheadedboy said:


> Agreed. They would have to come up with some wacky RF-S-only lenses that allowed you to do professional things on that body you couldn't do on full-frame, because at $3k it makes more sense to buy full-frame and extenders if you're after reach, and full-frame does most other things better (and RP/successor is small enough for size).


$2399 is my hunch, I'm usually wrong about these things so.... (However I did buy a 7D when it was within a year after launch for $1649) What was the Mk2? $1799?

Still, I won't draw too many comparisons, very different animals. Sharing a body number and crop factor isn't enough similarity for pricing comparisons being that there is such a gap between releases. The 5D and R5 lines were closer together and have a lot in common so those price points make more sense.


----------



## AccipiterQ (Jan 9, 2021)

FramerMCB said:


> I think the likelihood of Canon making an R5a is ~2.5% or less.



Why did you guys have to mention an R5a.....getting the Ra is on my list for this year....now I have to wait and see....


----------



## Czardoom (Jan 9, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> 1DX III and C500 II were announced in 2019 but did not really arrive until 2020.
> RP, R5, R6, C300 III, C70, T8i, 90D, and M50 II all came out in 2020.



RP came out in March 2019.
90D came out in Sept. 2019.


----------



## Antono Refa (Jan 9, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> 1DX III and C500 II were announced in 2019 but did not really arrive until 2020.
> RP, R5, R6, C300 III, C70, T8i, 90D, and M50 II all came out in 2020.



Some of the DSLRs you've mentioned probably required less R&D than new RF cameras. E.g. the xxxD line inherits a lot from the xxD line, e.g. AFAIK the T8i inherited the 80D's sensor. New R1 & R7 will probably have all new sensors, and the R1 will probably stretch the MILC performance envelope a lot more than the M50 II.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 9, 2021)

reef58 said:


> Just think how sweet that 100-500 will be with the crop body.


Pretty much the same as cropping an R5...


----------



## reef58 (Jan 9, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Pretty much the same as cropping an R5...



Don't think so


----------



## Joe Subolefsky (Jan 9, 2021)

dolina said:


> Canon has no choice if they want to stay solvent.
> 
> In 2012 ILCs used to ship more than 20.1 million units. 2019 it was less than 8.5 million. By 2025/2026 ILCs will not ship more than 6 million units annually.
> 
> ...



I really doubt much weight savings is possible on either the 400III or 600III after reading the engineering reports. The 500 and 800 are a different story. A 600 Rf DO is always possible I guess.


http://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/2018/articles/ef400mm-f-2.8L-IS-III-USM-EF600mm-f-4L-IS-III-USM/CUSA__updated%20Final%20lens%20developers%20interview__CUSA__11-26-2018.pdf


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 9, 2021)

reef58 said:


> Don't think so


Why not?


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 9, 2021)

I know this is off-topic, but I just wanted to let fellow Canon users know of a major problem if you are buying Canon equipment from Canada directly or through CPW and are also considering buying a (USA) Canon CarePAK for that equipment. I created a new thread just to discuss this topic:





CPW warning: Purchased USA Canon CarePAK will DENY WARRANTY CLAIMS WHEN YOU TRY TO USE IT for purchases from Canada!


I have purchased 6 new RF lenses through CPW (Canon Price Watch) which got me in contact with CameraCanada to purchase those lenses at a considerable discount. I had been assured that there was a FULL USA WARRANTY with them doing this. I've received the lenses and been very happy with them, as...




www.canonrumors.com





If you have any comments on this, please put them in the newly created thread instead of in this one.
Enjoy your photography, & stay safe!


----------



## mclaren777 (Jan 9, 2021)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Why not buy a few R5s then?


The R5 has too many shortcomings to be my primary camera.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 9, 2021)

mclaren777 said:


> The R5 has too many shortcomings to be my primary camera.


Interesting, what are the issues it has for your use and what are you currently using that it can’t do?


----------



## padam (Jan 9, 2021)

Maru said:


> I dont expect RPmkii and Rmkii before end of 2022.


There will be no EOS R Mark II. It was mentioned too many times already.

People are only using it for clickbait on YouTube because it includes the EOS R naming and it is what some people wanted.
It is the same with Canon Log 3 or ALL-I codecs for the R6, Canon never promised anything like that.
False information spreads like Covid...

What we might expect instead is something "done better" as an entry-level camera, like a Nikon Z5, and it probably will not be delayed until 2022.
So IBIS retained, dual SD card slots retained as well, but with a different sensor that does not have the video specs or ISO sensitivity of the R6 and a cheaper LCD screen, etc. basically Canon's version of the Z5, but they are keeping the body designs unique unlike Sony/Nikon so it can be smaller and lighter than the R6.

And the other camera may use the same sensor as this camera, but no EVF and single card slot to make it the smallest lightest and cheapest FF camera yet and they can market this as the "new M50" for vloggers as well. Also, if they remove the IBIS from this model, that would mean reduced / no wobble with lens-only IS, and also smaller and cheaper wide-angle RF lenses could come at that point.

Bottom line is: both the R and RP will likely be going away (at some point, stock should last a fair amount of time) and these new RF-mount cameras clearly aiming under the R5 and R6 will be slightly different.


----------



## reef58 (Jan 10, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why not?



It will have over 50% more pixel density than the R5 cropped.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 10, 2021)

reef58 said:


> It will have over 50% more pixel density than the R5 cropped.


Says who?


----------



## erader (Jan 10, 2021)

The3o5FlyGuy said:


> if a Crop sensor camera came out that was better than the R6 & R5 and similar to the R1, I’d be interested.



i'll bet


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 10, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Pretty much the same as cropping an R5...


For $2K US less with higher resolution


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I have been told by the same source that the “EOS R1” will be shown off ahead of the Tokyo Olympics this summer.



Does anyone honestly believe at this point that there will be a Tokyo 2021 Olympiad? Countries have to have qualifying seasons to select team members to represent them. Those would need to be going on right now, but they're not being held.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

vangelismm said:


> So, the cheap FF is the EF-m Killer?



No, it's the EF-S DSLR (Rebel/xx0D/xx00D) killer.

There will need to be small, light, and affordable lenses comparable to the EF-M lenses before it can truly replace the EF-M system.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> Not gonna happen, but with the high-res body I'd love to see Canon abandon the 2:3 ratio and go 3:4 like MF cameras. Or 4:5 even. That 'full-frame' albatross has nothing to do with anything but maximizing image area on 35mm movie film stock. No film! Be free!



I'm pretty happy with a 3:2 sensor. I can crop to either 16:9 or 4:3 without loosing much. Cropping a 4:3 sensor to 16:9 (because that's what a LOT of screens are these days - both handheld devices and wall sized TVs and everything in between) loses significantly more.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Yes they do. But they do not have a R5a.



What would an R5a really offer that the Ra does not for astronomy? 

Eye AF is useless for astro work.
Faster frame rates are useless for astro work.
IBIS isn't useful if one is using a tracking mount.
8K video is useless for astro work.
Smaller photosites (i.e. higher resolution) aren't that much more useful for anything but planetary astro work.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Anyone like to setup a table of features/differentiators for each camera (price, mp, fps, max video rate, dual/single card, etc)? By descending price...
> R1
> R5s
> R5
> ...



Well....

If the R5s is 115MP, then the R7 would be 45MP in an APS-C format. Just right for 8K video...


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> I said "high-res body". A 100MP sensor doesn't make any sense for video does it? I also said "I'd love to see..." I'm not even TRYING to satisfy the blog-o-masses.



You'd still be constrained by the 43.27mm diagonal, unless you want to create lenses with larger image circles.

A square format would work out to about 30.6 x 30.6 mm, which is only 936mm², or only 8.33% more area than the standard 36 x 24 mm 3:2 FF format. That's not even worth the difference compared to the mass confusion it would cause.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

dwarven said:


> It's not just that. People also shoot APS-C because it's a lighter kit, and it's cheaper. That's also why some use micro 4/3, for an even more dramatic benefit than APS-C.



Honestly, there's not much, if any weight difference between my 5D Mark IV + 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II and my 7D Mark II + 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II.

The difference is in reach when shooting sports under the lights and f/2.8 is not negotiable.

Oh, and the $4,000 cost difference between a 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II and an EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II.

... and _another_ 5D IV or R5 instead of 7D Mark II for my "long" body since I'm also using the 5D Mark IV I already own for my "short" body with a 24-105/4 (takes a licking and keeps on ticking - perfect for a second body hanging off a shoulder on the sidelines of field sports), 24-70/2.8, or 16-35/2.8... plus with a 300/2.8 that can't zoom out to 100mm, you still need the 70-200/2.8 plus _another_ FF body to bridge the gap between 35mm/70mm and 300mm.


----------



## mclaren777 (Jan 10, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Interesting, what are the issues it has for your use and what are you currently using that it can’t do?


My top three complaints are...

Lack of an OFV
CFexpress slot
Poor battery life
But it's the OVF that completely kills it for me, especially when photographing motorsports.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

AccipiterQ said:


> Guessing game: How many MP will the R7 be? 28?



Probably 32MP, seeing as how the M6 Mark II and 90D both had that same sensor.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Well, Canon Australia provides a 5 year warranty so IBIS will be covered for that time period.



If one buys their camera and lives in Australia...


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> I doubt Canon has invested in 5 stills cameras, and 3 cine cameras. That's a big investment in both R&D and manufacturing lines in a shrinking economy and corona crisis. I'm sure there are 7D & 1DX replacements in the pipe, as well as an 8K cinema camera, but not 8 cameras in one year.



Two of those eight have already been released in 2020.

Most of the others were already in the pipe before COVID-19 happened.

Supply chain issues probably does mean they won't all be introduced in 2021.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> RP came out in March 2019.
> 90D came out in Sept. 2019.



So did the M6 Mark II, which isn't even on the list.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Pretty much the same as cropping an R5...



I would expect the R7 to have substantially higher resolution than 17MP. Probably 32MP.


----------



## reef58 (Jan 10, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Says who?



Me


----------



## Kit. (Jan 10, 2021)

Memirsbrunnr said:


> What Olympics`? With the Biden win, the world will be forced in permanent lock down as it will be ruled from the geriatric fear for covid 19 level policy..


Even if it were for Biden to decide... isn't he already vaccinated?


----------



## Etienne (Jan 10, 2021)

Has any other company created a new camera system and abandoned it as fast as Canon has abandoned the M mount?


----------



## Kit. (Jan 10, 2021)

Etienne said:


> Has any other company created a new camera system and abandoned it as fast as Canon has abandoned the M mount?


_Exactly_ as fast (given that all that we hear about "Canon has abandoned the M mount" so far is just rumors) is unlikely.

Nikon 1 and Samsung NX were definitely faster, though.


----------



## Del Paso (Jan 10, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> eagerly waiting for APS-C RF body. That should make a great camera for macro use.


If it's a high MP sensor camera...it would indeed be fantastic for macro.


----------



## TravelerNick (Jan 10, 2021)

Etienne said:


> Has any other company created a new camera system and abandoned it as fast as Canon has abandoned the M mount?



Fast? Isn't it almost ten years old? If they stop new models and just keep selling current models until the warehouse is empty how much shorter will the lifecycle be when compared to the FD?


----------



## dichterDichter (Jan 10, 2021)

What advantages could an APS-C R7 32Mp have besides more pixel to crop? could someone explain?

what i see: cropping, possible cheaper lenses, adaptation of existing cheaper lenses. 

neg. (for me): DoF


----------



## researcher (Jan 10, 2021)

Regardless of what the models, I hope they all come with some kind of inherent 1080p webcam functionality. Covid19 taught many of us how nice that can be.
I'm also still rooting for global shutter ASAP...


----------



## slclick (Jan 10, 2021)

Memirsbrunnr said:


> What Olympics`? With the Biden win, the world will be forced in permanent lock down as it will be ruled from the geriatric fear for covid 19 level policy..
> No the first new olympic games will be in 4 years..


Enough. Take your hate to Parler, not CR.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 10, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> What would an R5a really offer that the Ra does not for astronomy?
> 
> Eye AF is useless for astro work.
> Faster frame rates are useless for astro work.
> ...


I haven't used the Ra, so I'm not an expert on it's limitations. I would hope that it could take decent daylight photos after correcting the red channel for daylight use.

Regarding the points you made, I would agree in general, although IBIS might help for quicker lightweight tripod shots in windy conditions that are to be stacked later, or for handheld shots at twilight etc. And realistically, I could see them coming out with a R6a instead of an R5a reasoning that larger pixels are more appropriate for astro work and to get costs down so it sells enough to warrant production. 

The one point that would be useful for me would be to have a 2nd body to pair with my existing R5. It would be able to take beautiful astro shots of the sky, as well as (hopefully) daylight photos once the red channel is properly adjusted for them. And almost all the controls, menus, and features would be the same as the R5. And for my travels when I take only one body, taking it would give me access to day and night shots. And it might have additional upgrades from the R5 so I might to use it as my 1st body.

For those that would be buying their first R body, or upgrading to a better body of R5 or better, they could get a great body and (hopefully) also one that would take great astro shots.

Now I do assume that an R5a probably won't be built, or else be built well after those like the R5s or R1 are built. I may decide to get the R5s as a 2nd body when it comes out - I'm undecided on that as 90MP isn't compelling to me as I don't really think the images will be much better than the R5 and I'd have undesirably bigger files to deal with - But it may have other appreciable upgrades over the R5, we'll see.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 10, 2021)

Memirsbrunnr said:


> What Olympics`? With the Biden win, the world will be forced in permanent lock down as it will be ruled from the geriatric fear for covid 19 level policy..
> No the first new olympic games will be in 4 years..


I thought we're supposed to avoid politics in this forum. I suggest you do the same, lest others with opposite views start voicing their opinions and the thread is overrun with non-photographic content.


----------



## mdcmdcmdc (Jan 10, 2021)

Kit. said:


> _Exactly_ as fast (given that all that we hear about "Canon has abandoned the M mount" so far is just rumors) is unlikely.
> 
> Nikon 1 and Samsung NX were definitely faster, though.


Kodak Disc?
The original APS?


----------



## padam (Jan 10, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I haven't used the Ra, so I'm not an expert on it's limitations. I would hope that it could take decent daylight photos after correcting the red channel for daylight use.
> 
> Regarding the points you made, I would agree in general, although IBIS might help for quicker lightweight tripod shots in windy conditions that are to be stacked later, or for handheld shots at twilight etc. And realistically, I could see them coming out with a R6a instead of an R5a reasoning that larger pixels are more appropriate for astro work and to get costs down so it sells enough to warrant production.


They've made the 20Da in 2005, the 60Da in 2012 and now the EOS Ra in 2019.

It is safe to say that it is a very niche market and they won't make any more for quite a few years.

But if the R6a is what you desire, any camera can be modified for astrophotograhy. It's not that big of a deal.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 10, 2021)

padam said:


> They've made the 20Da in 2005, the 60Da in 2012 and now the EOS Ra in 2019.
> 
> It is safe to say that it is a very niche market and they won't make any more for quite a few years.
> 
> But if the R6a is what you desire, any camera can be modified for astrophotograhy. It's not that big of a deal.


Thanks for the reply, padam. What would be involved to modify an R5 to get the better H-Alpha response? I also use DXO PL4 in post, and wonder if it is possible there to alter the red channel so that it would take daylight balanced photos? I know it would void the warranty, but that's only got half a year left for me anyway.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 10, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I thought we're supposed to avoid politics in this forum. I suggest you do the same, lest others with opposite views start voicing their opinions and the thread is overrun with non-photographic content.



I agree, this isn't the place. And I may or may not agree with the original poster. Doesn't matter, this is NOT THE PLACE.


----------



## slclick (Jan 10, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I agree, this isn't the place. And I may or may not agree with the original poster. Doesn't matter, this is NOT THE PLACE.


It's been moderated, we're good.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 10, 2021)

slclick said:


> It's been moderated, we're good.



Must have happened very recently, I read the original comment just a few minutes ago.

Good, I'm glad someone's on the ball.


----------



## padam (Jan 10, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks for the reply, padam. What would be involved to modify an R5 to get the better H-Alpha response? I also use DXO PL4 in post, and wonder if it is possible there to alter the red channel so that it would take daylight balanced photos? I know it would void the warranty, but that's only got half a year left for me anyway.







__





H-Alpha Camera Conversion Archives - Infrared Conversions, IR Modifications & Photography Tutorials | Life Pixel IR







www.lifepixel.com








__





Astrophotography Conversions Archives







kolarivision.com





No R5 or R6 yet but I would be very surprised if they didn't offer it later down the line although you probably can use something that's considerably cheaper than these cameras, you can check EOS Ra images taken in normal condition, I think I would rather just use a non-converted camera for that.









Review: Canon EOS Ra (It Almost Shines as Bright as the Stars in the Sky)


The Canon EOS Ra has been designed for those who love astrophotography, but is this specialized Mirrorless camera worth the price? Let's find out.




www.thephoblographer.com





Almost all of the time I buy from the grey market so it does not matter to me, never ever had any problem with a Canon but in the worst case they would probably repair it for a fee (unlike Nikon).


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 10, 2021)

padam said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, padam, for all the information! 

After reading these reviews, I don't think I'm interested in getting an Ra, for the following reasons:
* They only put a different filter on the sensor, and put a 30x magnification feature on it.
* They don't have a nighttime red-only view in their LCD and EVF. That's just a software patch which would have been easy!
* They have no nighttime illumination on their buttons (well, neither would a R5a, but a R1 aftermarket-modified would I assume)
* They have no astro-tracker feature, which a future R5a(or any Rxa) should have by now.
* Their daylight photos are great (yes that's a plus, but also means any future Rxa or aftermarket-modified one would too)

So, I'll wait to see what the R1 looks like as it seems it's the first (and maybe only) top level R body to come out this year.
Come August it may be the best decision to modify my R5 with a H-Alpha enabling filter and just enjoy that.


----------



## Aaron D (Jan 10, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> You'd still be constrained by the 43.27mm diagonal, unless you want to create lenses with larger image circles.


But that diagonal is only required because the corners are where they are. (correction: same diagonal, no difference regardless of format). If you went to 4:5 the corners would come in from the side and expand up and down. Sure that's an insignificant gain _in area_, 6% if I'm doing my math correctly, BUT it's a proportion that's much more useful to me as an architectural photographer.

As it is, I'm almost always combining exposures for a vertical panorama, so to speak. If I had that extra height, I could save a lot of time splicing in PS. If I want that proportion in a single shot now, I have to crop out the sides, wasting pixels--and it is very difficult for me personally to compose by top and bottom edges (as opposed to width) looking into my viewfinder on location. Yeah, I've tried various tricks, like framing a scene with a longer lens first or setting the viewfinder masking to 4:5. So I will happily admit a 4:5 format is a personal preference that would likely outrage the masses if adopted. Beats me why, though. All manner of ratios exist even now and _have_ existed for the history of photography--and art, for that matter.

If it's not already obvious I've got nothing better to do, take a look at my attachment for a visual comparison. In the PSD version I do several other formats. This is only 2:3 and 4:5.

</rant>


----------



## zim (Jan 10, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> But that diagonal is only required because the corners are where they are. If you went to 4:5 the corners would come in from the side and expand up and down. Sure that's an insignificant gain _in area_, 6% if I'm doing my math correctly, BUT it's a proportion that's much more useful to me as an architectural photographer.
> 
> As it is, I'm almost always combining exposures for a vertical panorama, so to speak. If I had that extra height, I could save a lot of time splicing in PS. If I want that proportion in a single shot now, I have to crop out the sides, wasting pixels--and it is very difficult for me personally to compose by top and bottom edges (as opposed to width) looking into my viewfinder on location. Yeah, I've tried various tricks, like framing a scene with a longer lens first or setting the viewfinder masking to 4:5. So I will happily admit a 4:5 format is a personal preference that would likely outrage the masses if adopted. Beats me why, though. All manner of ratios exist even now and _have_ existed for the history of photography--and art, for that matter.
> 
> ...


Well 20x16 is on of my fav print formats so you won't get any argument from me!


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 10, 2021)

zim said:


> Well 20x16 is on of my fav print formats so you won't get any argument from me!


I've had a 4:3 format (M43) camera and now a 3:2 (R5) camera. I don't really care which aspect I have to use. BUT with either one of them I have to rotate the camera 90 degrees to take a portrait shot, and the back LCD menu text doesn't rotate so it's hard to read. It also complicates putting the camera on a tripod in portrait mode since you now need an L bracket Arca-Swiss adapter and the L part will interfere with your fully articulating screen.

If you're going to change the aspect ratio at all, I'd prefer to change it to 1:1. No more rotation for portraits. No more double grips when you want a bigger battery on bottom. No more BS with an L bracket A.S. adapter. And I'd put a pair of Arca Swiss grooves on the bottom edges of the body so it's tripod ready (again, for landscape or portrait). And I really prefer 1:1 crops for my photos whenever possible, and a 1:1 sensor would not only give the biggest sensor area possible within the same image circle, but all if it would be available for a 1:1 image display instead of cropping down a rectangle to get a square. (And yes, you'd have less remaining when you crop a square down to 4:3 or 3:2)

If I was the designer (and had a green light to do so), I'd make it a 1:1 slightly larger square sensor for a slightly larger image circle so that you get get a slightly bigger 1:1 image for those lenses that can tolerably illuminate the corner and also have a slightly bigger sensor area (than what it would be otherwise) when you decide to crop it down to 4:3 or 3:2 for landscape or portrait use. Then, maybe everybody could be happy enough.


----------



## Etienne (Jan 10, 2021)

slclick said:


> Enough. Take your hate to Parler, not CR.


Parler is for hate?
So politics is ok on CR as longs as it's Lefty.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 10, 2021)

Etienne said:


> Parler is for hate?
> So politics is ok on CR as longs as it's Lefty.


If CR was for Lefty politics then it'd be just as swamped with angry posts as it would be if it was for Righty politics.
That's why we (and the moderator) have asked for no politics to be used.
Let's just have fun with taking photographs, please!


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I haven't used the Ra, so I'm not an expert on it's limitations. I would hope that it could take decent daylight photos after correcting the red channel for daylight use.
> 
> Regarding the points you made, I would agree in general, although IBIS might help for quicker lightweight tripod shots in windy conditions that are to be stacked later, or for handheld shots at twilight etc. And realistically, I could see them coming out with a R6a instead of an R5a reasoning that larger pixels are more appropriate for astro work and to get costs down so it sells enough to warrant production.
> 
> ...



You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what the difference is/was between the R and the Ra, the 60D and the 60Da, or the 20D and the 20Da, do you?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> But that diagonal is only required because the corners are where they are. If you went to 4:5 the corners would come in from the side and expand up and down. Sure that's an insignificant gain _in area_, 6% if I'm doing my math correctly, BUT it's a proportion that's much more useful to me as an architectural photographer.
> 
> As it is, I'm almost always combining exposures for a vertical panorama, so to speak. If I had that extra height, I could save a lot of time splicing in PS. If I want that proportion in a single shot now, I have to crop out the sides, wasting pixels--and it is very difficult for me personally to compose by top and bottom edges (as opposed to width) looking into my viewfinder on location. Yeah, I've tried various tricks, like framing a scene with a longer lens first or setting the viewfinder masking to 4:5. So I will happily admit a 4:5 format is a personal preference that would likely outrage the masses if adopted. Beats me why, though. All manner of ratios exist even now and _have_ existed for the history of photography--and art, for that matter.
> 
> ...



If the image circle diameter does not change, then the diagonal does not change, regardless of the aspect ratio. The diagonals of the two boxes in your little drawing are identical.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

dichterDichter said:


> What advantages could an APS-C R7 32Mp have besides more pixel to crop? could someone explain?
> 
> what i see: cropping, possible cheaper lenses, adaptation of existing cheaper lenses.
> 
> neg. (for me): DoF



It would allow, for example, using a 70-200/2.8 instead of a 300/2.8 for field sports under artificial lighting, where f/2.8 is fairly non-negotiable.

In the EF system, because all of the pieces are already on the market, compare:

7D Mark II + EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS III = $3,500

1D X Mark II + EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II = $10,600

or

5D Mark IV + EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II = $8,600

With the 300mm prime one would also need another body with a 70-200/2.8 to cover when play gets too close to the sideline to use the 300mm. That's another $4,500 or so.


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## Aaron D (Jan 10, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> If the image circle diameter does not change, then the diagonal does not change, regardless of the aspect ratio. The diagonals of the two boxes in your little drawing are identical.


You're absolutely right--they have to be if the corners are on the same circle. So: NEVER MIND. I still prefer a taller aspect ratio...


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## usern4cr (Jan 10, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what the difference is/was between the R and the Ra, the 60D and the 60Da, or the 20D and the 20Da, do you?


What's your point? My writing was pretty clear. I've since read some reviews on the Ra and it further reinforces my desire to not buy it for my purposes. If you just want to revel it putting someone down, that's not a very nice thing to do.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 10, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Does anyone honestly believe at this point that there will be a Tokyo 2021 Olympiad? Countries have to have qualifying seasons to select team members to represent them. Those would need to be going on right now, but they're not being held.


It is a big deal for Japnese camera companies since it is their home country but there is an Olympics every 2 years


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## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> It is a big deal for Japnese camera companies since it is their home country but there is an Olympics every 2 years



The Japanese camera companies do not select who represents each country in each sport. It doesn't matter how much the camera companies want to put on the games, if the sanctioning bodies for each sport in each country do not have qualifying events and send athletes, there will be no legitimate Olympiad.

There's an Olympiad (summer games) every four years and a Winter Games (much smaller and not considered an Olympiad since the events are not modeled on the ancient Greek games) every four years that is offset by about 18 months from the summer games, which puts them in calendar years that are two years apart. But the 2022 Winter games will only be about 18 months after the original 2020 Summer games were scheduled. _IF_ the 2021 Summer Games are held, the 2022 Winter games will be six or seven months later.


----------



## dolina (Jan 10, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> The Japanese camera companies do not select who represents each country in each sport. It doesn't matter how much the camera companies want to put on the games, if the sanctioning bodies for each sport in each country do not have qualifying events and send athletes, there will be no legitimate Olympiad.
> 
> There's an Olympiad (summer games) every four years and a Winter Games (much smaller and not considered an Olympiad since the events are not modeled on the ancient Greek games) every four years that is offset by about 18 months from the summer games, which puts them in calendar years that are two years apart. But the 2022 Winter games will only be about 18 months after the original 2020 Summer games were scheduled. _IF_ the 2021 Summer Games are held, the 2022 Winter games will be six or seven months later.


It's possible that the 2021 event will be pushed back to 2022 or even 2023


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## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

dolina said:


> It's possible that the 2021 event will be pushed back to 2022 or even 2023



2022 I might can see happening. I highly doubt the IOC would go for a 2023 Summer Games if they go ahead with plans on having the scheduled 2024 Summer Games in Paris.


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## dolina (Jan 10, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> 2022 I might can see happening. I highly doubt the IOC would go for a 2023 Summer Games if they go ahead with plans on having the scheduled 2024 Summer Games in Paris.



It is possible that Paris could be bumped a year later.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 10, 2021)

dolina said:


> It is possible that Paris could be bumped a year later.



I highly doubt that will happen. Look at the history of the Olympic Games. They've always been held at the four year intervals defined by years divisible by 4. The Games lost in 1916, 1940, and 1944 were not "made up" later. That history is something the IOC takes seriously.


----------



## dolina (Jan 11, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> I highly doubt that will happen. Look at the history of the Olympic Games. They've always been held at the four year intervals defined by years divisible by 4. The Games lost in 1916, 1940, and 1944 were not "made up" later. That history is something the IOC takes seriously.


The difference between the 1916, 1940, and 1944 Games is billions in sponsorship and govt money. That's why Japan did not outright cancel it and chose to delay it by 52 weeks.

With COVID-19 being a global issue all movements towards construction for future events venues are also delayed..

I doubt any of the venues for the 2022 and 2024 Games are completed by now.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 11, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks for the reply, padam. What would be involved to modify an R5 to get the better H-Alpha response? I also use DXO PL4 in post, and wonder if it is possible there to alter the red channel so that it would take daylight balanced photos? I know it would void the warranty, but that's only got half a year left for me anyway.


There is a place in NJ that does conversions.
I would imagine there is a place near where you are.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 11, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> There is a place in NJ that does conversions.
> I would imagine there is a place near where you are.


Thanks, EOS4Life. I'm thinking that my R5, after the 12 month warranty period is up, might be a good candidate for an updated H-A filter. Too bad it doesn't have lit buttons or optional red display LCD & EVF. But one can always make do (and the displays can be dimmed quite a bit). I think it would be wonderful with f1.2 or so lenses on it, giving them all a 2nd life (after dark)


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 11, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> What's your point? My writing was pretty clear. I've since read some reviews on the Ra and it further reinforces my desire to not buy it for my purposes. If you just want to revel it putting someone down, that's not a very nice thing to do.



My point is, the Ra (and 60Da and 20Da before it) have their filter stack modified to the point that the "green" and "blue" photosites on the sensor are also highly sensitive to near IR and IR light. There's no way to discriminate between "green" light and "near IR" detected by "green" sensels. There's no way to discriminate between "blue" light and "near IR" light detected by "blue" sensels. So it's not possible to "adjust the red channel" and use it for a general purpose camera as well as for an astro camera. It would be like trying to get realistic colors from B&W film.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 11, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> My point is, the Ra (and 60Da and 20Da before it) have their filter stack modified to the point that the "green" and "blue" photosites on the sensor are also highly sensitive to near IR and IR light. There's no way to discriminate between "green" light and "near IR" detected by "green" sensels. There's no way to discriminate between "blue" light and "near IR" light detected by "blue" sensels. So it's not possible to "adjust the red channel" and use it for a general purpose camera as well as for an astro camera. It would be like trying to get realistic colors from B&W film.


Thank you for the feedback. If I misjudged your previous post intent, then I am sorry.

I was not aware of the different sensitivities of the G and B channels. What you mentioned makes it sound like you can't get good color pictures from the Ra in daylight. But the long review I read (linked below) mentioned by another user, said that the Ra takes great daylight color photos and with just a slight adjustment of colors (eg. if the face color is off somewhat) it can be easily corrected. Have you found this not to be the case? The whole intent of what I want to do is to have a H-A camera that can also take great daylight photos (with an easy color correction) so I have the best of both worlds. If this isn't possible then I would be making a mistake to have (for instance) my R5 modified with a H-A filter by one of the companies that does that.






*Review: Canon EOS Ra (It Almost Shines as Bright as the Stars in the Sky)*
The Canon EOS Ra has been designed for those who love astrophotography, but is this specialized Mirrorless camera worth the price? Let's find out.



www.thephoblographer.com


----------



## scyrene (Jan 11, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> 8K video is useless for astro work.
> Smaller photosites (i.e. higher resolution) aren't that much more useful for anything but *planetary astro work*.



Isn't most planetary imaging done from video? Stacking hundreds of frames to even out atmospheric distortion, get the best resolution, etc? In that case I'd have thought higher resolution video modes were of benefit, although it may be that small sensor webcams are still better for that purpose.


----------



## Redline (Jan 11, 2021)

What I want to really see is the Animal Eye-AF they implemented on the R5 & R6 to these lineups including the current EOS R. One thing I miss with Sony when I had it for a short period. It was insane how good it was and for taking animal photos, even better as I do a lot of photos for a rescue. But hated Sony's open sensor design. It was a dust magnet from hell. If the R7 or whatever they call it has at least a decent 4K bitrate I may jump on it.


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## dolina (Jan 11, 2021)

usern4cr said:


>


I like your photo. Very nice.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 11, 2021)

dolina said:


> I like your photo. Very nice.


Thanks, dolina. But I can only wish that I had created that photo. It is the photo from the article itself. If you'd care to look at the photos (& hopefully funny sayings with them) of mine that I'm most proud of, you could check out my kitty Advent calendar I did, here:
https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/jolly-ollie-advent-calendar-2020.39772/


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## AccipiterQ (Jan 11, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Probably 32MP, seeing as how the M6 Mark II and 90D both had that same sensor.



Good call


----------



## David - Sydney (Jan 11, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> If one buys their camera and lives in Australia...


There are worse places to live - especially at the moment


----------



## mdcmdcmdc (Jan 11, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> If one buys their camera and lives in Australia...


They can give a five-year warranty in Australia because most cameras get carried off by the labrador-sized spiders long before then.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jan 11, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> They can give a five-year warranty in Australia because most cameras get carried off by the labrador-sized spiders long before then.


I heard that cameras were venomous in Australia.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 12, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I heard that cameras were venomous in Australia.



Not the cameras, the batteries.


----------



## padam (Jan 12, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks, padam, for all the information!
> 
> After reading these reviews, I don't think I'm interested in getting an Ra, for the following reasons:
> * They only put a different filter on the sensor, and put a 30x magnification feature on it.
> ...


Well, there is actually more to it than that.






Canon EOS Ra – Brendan Davey Photography







www.brendandaveyphotography.com





If you want to stay Canon, the Ra is probably the best one for astro and probably superior to the newer ones, more technology in a lot of cases also means more noise.

If you want the best long-exposure performance it is the Panasonic S1, wIth Sony A7III or Z6 not that far behind.





Panasonic Lumix S1, #TogUpgrade? – Brendan Davey Photography







www.brendandaveyphotography.com





Star tracking will not work without a factory compatible or built-in GPS (calibrated for all three axis) , so if that's what you want, Pentax is the only one to go for, Canon might never implement that, neither does any of the mirrorless competition.

But the main takeaway is that the newest camera is not the best for astrophotography and the Ra is a good option as far as Canon goes.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 12, 2021)

padam said:


> Well, there is actually more to it than that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link, Padam.

It looks like Canon might be selecting the best R sensors to be put into the Ra, or somehow generating / retaining less heat for it, but it is hard to tell. Either way, the R5 is well known for generating more heat and the better weatherproofing keeps more heat in, so that the R5 would probably not be a good choice to convert via a company swap of filters to a R5a equivalent. It also implies that a R5a might not be a good a choice for a future R version from Canon. It also might be a bad decision to alter the superb R5 sensor as the result might drastically harm daylight use much more than one would hope, as well as not perform as well as the Ra.

I didn't know the star tracking/tracer required GPS, so it makes sense that the Ra doesn't have it.

The Ra is $2,500 US new. It's certainly worth considering after all. Looks like it's time to consider all the other alternatives as well - namely dedicated astro cameras and lenses that they can use.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 17, 2021)

scyrene said:


> Isn't most planetary imaging done from video? Stacking hundreds of frames to even out atmospheric distortion, get the best resolution, etc? In that case I'd have thought higher resolution video modes were of benefit, although it may be that small sensor webcams are still better for that purpose.



Which is why I specifically mentioned planetary work as an exception to the rule...


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 17, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> There are worse places to live - especially at the moment



To paraphrase Samuel Langhorne Clemens: Reports of the demise of other places to live seem to be greatly exaggerated.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks for the link, Padam.
> 
> It looks like Canon might be selecting the best R sensors to be put into the Ra, or somehow generating / retaining less heat for it, but it is hard to tell. Either way, the R5 is well known for generating more heat and the better weatherproofing keeps more heat in, so that the R5 would probably not be a good choice to convert via a company swap of filters to a R5a equivalent. It also implies that a R5a might not be a good a choice for a future R version from Canon. It also might be a bad decision to alter the superb R5 sensor as the result might drastically harm daylight use much more than one would hope, as well as not perform as well as the Ra.
> 
> ...



If you've got a good astronomical tracking mount, you don't need a camera that can do tracking internally (for fairly limited periods of time). Internal sensor shift is only good for, at most, a few minutes of tracking. A good tracking mount can run all night without needing to reorient the camera.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 17, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> If you've got a good astronomical tracking mount, you don't need a camera that can do tracking internally (for fairly limited periods of time). Internal sensor shift is only good for, at most, a few minutes of tracking. A good tracking mount can run all night without needing to reorient the camera.


Yes, that's true. But the whole point of having the camera self-track is exactly for the purposes you mentioned, which is a few minutes of tracking on the camera tripod. So you don't need all the big equipment. Now, granted it's a much lower IQ technique compared to real astro cameras & equatorial tracking mounts, but it fills a niche when you only have your camera & tripod.

I've been looking into cooled monochrome astro cameras, telescopes & EQ mounts. It's amazing what you can do if you have a lot of $ to spare. What would be spectacular (but won't happen) is for Canon to do a joint venture with an astro camera maker to design a big boxy astro cooled monochrome camera with electronic shutter & 2" filter wheel embedded tight enough to have a RF mount to use all the RF (& EF etc) lenses. Imagine putting your (future) RF 600 f4 (or whatever) lens on it with a tracking mount, or using a 2"-to-RF adaptor with a nice telescope on it. Then pop the same RF(etc) lens on your Rx camera for daytime use. Well, I can dream, can't I?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Yes, that's true. But the whole point of having the camera self-track is exactly for the purposes you mentioned, which is a few minutes of tracking on the camera tripod. So you don't need all the big equipment. Now, granted it's a much lower IQ technique compared to real astro cameras & equatorial tracking mounts, but it fills a niche when you only have your camera & tripod.
> 
> I've been looking into cooled monochrome astro cameras, telescopes & EQ mounts. It's amazing what you can do if you have a lot of $ to spare. What would be spectacular (but won't happen) is for Canon to do a joint venture with an astro camera maker to design a big boxy astro cooled monochrome camera with electronic shutter & 2" filter wheel embedded tight enough to have a RF mount to use all the RF (& EF etc) lenses. Imagine putting your (future) RF 600 f4 (or whatever) lens on it with a tracking mount, or using a 2"-to-RF adaptor with a nice telescope on it. Then pop the same RF(etc) lens on your Rx camera for daytime use. Well, I can dream, can't I?



The problem with that idea is that refractive lenses provide nowhere near the benefit per dollar that reflective optics do for astro work. When was the last major observatory constructed with a refractive primary? Over a hundred years ago? 

For the cost of an RF 600/4 one can buy one hell of a Newtonian reflector or even a very good Schmidt-Cassegrain or Maksutov with a much larger aperture than 150mm. In astronomy, aperture is everything.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 18, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> The problem with that idea is that refractive lenses provide nowhere near the benefit per dollar that reflective optics do for astro work. When was the last major observatory constructed with a refractive primary? Over a hundred years ago?
> 
> For the cost of an RF 600/4 one can buy one hell of a Newtonian reflector or even a very good Schmidt-Cassegrain or Maksutov with a much larger aperture than 150mm. In astronomy, aperture is everything.



In addition to the greater expense, it's probably simply impossible to build a lens much larger than the 40" Yerkes lens without having it suffer from distortion sagging under its own great weight. And that really can't be designed for since the lens itself could be held at any orientation between vertical and horizontal, depending on what one is observing. (Of course I could imagine some sort of computer correction being applied...but then, your original point triumphs; refractors are expensive.

It's possible for amateurs on a comparatively low budget to buy 40 inch reflectors on Dobsonian mounts (that mount is a huge moneysaver). (I've personally seen them. They gather so much light looking at Mars will ruin your dark adaptation.) No way for refractors.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 18, 2021)

SteveC said:


> In addition to the greater expense, it's probably simply impossible to build a lens much larger than the 40" Yerkes lens without having it suffer from distortion sagging under its own great weight. And that really can't be designed for since the lens itself could be held at any orientation between vertical and horizontal, depending on what one is observing. (Of course I could imagine some sort of computer correction being applied...but then, your original point triumphs; refractors are expensive.
> 
> It's possible for amateurs on a comparatively low budget to buy 40 inch reflectors on Dobsonian mounts (that mount is a huge moneysaver). (I've personally seen them. They gather so much light looking at Mars will ruin your dark adaptation.) No way for refractors.



It's not only that, though. Front coated mirrors do not suffer from chromatic aberration. 

No.CA.At.All. None. 

No corrective lenses neededfor the primary. None. 

That's the biggest advantage.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 18, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> The problem with that idea is that refractive lenses provide nowhere near the benefit per dollar that reflective optics do for astro work. When was the last major observatory constructed with a refractive primary? Over a hundred years ago?
> 
> For the cost of an RF 600/4 one can buy one hell of a Newtonian reflector or even a very good Schmidt-Cassegrain or Maksutov with a much larger aperture than 150mm. In astronomy, aperture is everything.


That's not my point. My point is that I might (well, I wish) already have something like a RF 600/4 for existing photo use. It'd be nice to be able to use it for high IQ astro work (monochrome cooled sensor with filter wheel) if it was possible. Last I heard, I don't have the money to buy a major observatory. Do you? They have nothing to do with the topic I'm bringing up.

I would also like to disagree with your general statement. There is no 1 focal range, or 1 type of lens/scope, that is ideal for all astro work. There is a whole wide range of focal ranges that are ideal for the various sizes of astro subjects. Some of those ranges are exactly in the range that a 600mm lens is ideal for. Some are ideal for the range that other RF/EF lenses just happen to be. And in those ranges, there is nothing better than a very fast high quality refractive lens. They have no central obstruction, and their contrast, corner to corner sharpness, fast f#, and small & portable size are supreme for the wider focal lengths that they cover. And you might already have purchased them on your tight budget.

I also mentioned that a possible R mount cooled monochrome astro camera with electronic shutter and filter wheel could have other types of astro tubes attached with a 2+"-to-R converter. So you could use your guided SC or RC tubes (etc) with them and save the cost of buying a separate cooled monochrome sensor, filter wheel, electronic focuser etc.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 18, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> That's not my point. My point is that I might (well, I wish) already have something like a RF 600/4 for existing photo use. It'd be nice to be able to use it for high IQ astro work (monochrome cooled sensor with filter wheel) if it was possible. Last I heard, I don't have the money to buy a major observatory. Do you? They have nothing to do with the topic I'm bringing up.
> 
> I would also like to disagree with your general statement. There is no 1 focal range, or 1 type of lens/scope, that is ideal for all astro work. There is a whole wide range of focal ranges that are ideal for the various sizes of astro subjects. Some of those ranges are exactly in the range that a 600mm lens is ideal for. Some are ideal for the range that other RF/EF lenses just happen to be. And in those ranges, there is nothing better than a very fast high quality refractive lens. They have no central obstruction, and their contrast, corner to corner sharpness, fast f#, and small & portable size are supreme for the wider focal lengths that they cover. And you might already have purchased them on your tight budget.
> 
> I also mentioned that a possible R mount cooled monochrome astro camera with electronic shutter and filter wheel could have other types of astro tubes attached with a 2+"-to-R converter. So you could use your guided SC or RC tubes (etc) with them and save the cost of buying a separate cooled monochrome sensor, filter wheel, electronic focuser etc.



Who said anything about one perfect focal length?

Here's the thing. A 600/4 in the Canon world currently costs $13,000. For a fraction of that sum, somewhere around one-twentieth, one can get a pretty good 600mm f/4 Newtonian reflector that's just as sharp for astro work. Not to mention it is user friendly when it needs to be collimated. Try doing _that_ yourself with a 17 element EF lens! 

It's like saying I've got a $250,000 tractor trailer, I might as well use it to haul my sister's sofa and bedroom furniture from her old apartment to her new apartment. Never mind the fact it only gets 6.5 mpg at $2.80/gal for diesel fuel and costs about .40 cents per mile in regularly scheduled maintenance and tires. Then there's the required $2M in liability insurance...

The only thing the EF lens can do that a good Newtonian reflector costing 1/20 as much can't do is AF, IS, and focus closer. None of those things matter much for astro work (other than possibly the Sun, Moon, or large planets).


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## Michael Clark (Jan 18, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I also mentioned that a possible R mount cooled monochrome astro camera with electronic shutter and filter wheel could have other types of astro tubes attached with a 2+"-to-R converter. So you could use your guided SC or RC tubes (etc) with them and save the cost of buying a separate cooled monochrome sensor, filter wheel, electronic focuser etc.



EF mount adapters are readily available for astro cameras. They're just not made by Canon.


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## SteveC (Jan 18, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> It's not only that, though. Front coated mirrors do not suffer from chromatic aberration.
> 
> No.CA.At.All. None.
> 
> ...



And yet, there are people who prefer refractors. So there must be some advantage to it or no one would ever bother.

(Personally I own a 6" newtonian, and I'm contemplating a Maksutov-Cassegrain.)


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## jd7 (Jan 18, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> They can give a five-year warranty in Australia because most cameras photographers get carried off by the labrador-sized spiders long before then.


Fixed that for you


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## usern4cr (Jan 18, 2021)

I am ONLY talking about a possible astro cooled monochrome body with filter wheel & R mount to use for:
1) the Canon lenses *you already have* for photo/video use.
2) for any other (non-Canon) telescopes & mounts you want to buy (having nothing further to do with Canon).


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## mdcmdcmdc (Jan 20, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> If you want to abandon legacy film formats, why go to the medium format film standard of 3:4? Why not do 16:9, which is what most monitors do today (1080P, 4K, 8K). The world has gone digital, after all!


Looks like I spoke too soon...

Goodbye and good riddance to the 16:9 aspect ratio


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## SteveC (Jan 20, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> Looks like I spoke too soon...
> 
> Goodbye and good riddance to the 16:9 aspect ratio



Hallelujah!!!

The whole push towards that aspect ratio only happened because that's what TVs used and thus it was cheaper to just do the same thing.

But then Microshaft put the vertical space hogging ribbon onto its Orifice Suite, and all sorts of places would add toolbars and the like.

It's OK for a large screen but for a dinky laptop it's awful. Even my desktop, though, is 16:10 and that extra bit is very useful to me.


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## R1-7D (Jan 20, 2021)

I just want the high resolution camera.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 20, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> They can give a five-year warranty in Australia because most cameras get carried off by the labrador-sized spiders long before then.


Bah!! Our spiders aren't that bad


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## Michael Clark (Jan 21, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I am ONLY talking about a possible astro cooled monochrome body with filter wheel & R mount to use for:
> 1) the Canon lenses *you already have* for photo/video use.
> 2) for any other (non-Canon) telescopes & mounts you want to buy (having nothing further to do with Canon).



And I'm saying all of that is already available. Just not made by Canon. You can already adapt EF lenses to existing dedicated astro cameras with color wheels. You just can't buy the adapter, the camera, nor the color wheel from Canon.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 21, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> Looks like I spoke too soon...
> 
> Goodbye and good riddance to the 16:9 aspect ratio



It's becoming less an less relevant from an imaging perspective. Most folks these days produce content (both still and videos) in portrait orientation because that's how they hold their phones.


.


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## JohnC (Jan 21, 2021)

R1-7D said:


> I just want the high resolution camera.



Unfortunately according to this version of the rumor that may not make it in 2021, which might force me to get the R5. I'm not sure I want to wait another year to get into mirrorless (particularly at higher resolution).


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## usern4cr (Jan 21, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> And I'm saying all of that is already available. Just not made by Canon. You can already adapt EF lenses to existing dedicated astro cameras with color wheels. You just can't buy the adapter, the camera, nor the color wheel from Canon.


That's great for those that have EF lenses, and it gives support to the usefulness of the idea.
But I don't have any EF lenses, nor do I plan to buy any as my preference is to buy RF ones once they become available. Hence the point of my post for an all-in-one solution with a R mount. If it ever happened (which would surprise me) it'd probably also become available for other popular mounts with flange-to-sensor distances >= 18mm so that it'd also cover the popular Sony FE mount. I'd also expect it is sold under the astro camera name (not Canon), with a mention of the mount versions that are supported (Canon may have licensed it or else the R protocols were reversed engineered).


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## usern4cr (Jan 21, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> It's becoming less an less relevant from an imaging perspective. Most folks these days produce content (both still and videos) in portrait orientation because that's how they hold their phones.
> 
> View attachment 195383
> .


I didn't know that most people take stills and video in portrait mode - it's an illuminating thing to think about.

That'd be more reason for offering quality computer monitors (or dare I say it, TV ones) that can easily be rotated between landscape & portrait modes. I remember Apple having them in the past. I'd probably enjoy it to show my portrait shots at full size.


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## usern4cr (Jan 21, 2021)

JohnC said:


> Unfortunately according to this version of the rumor that may not make it in 2021, which might force me to get the R5. I'm not sure I want to wait another year to get into mirrorless (particularly at higher resolution).


If the R5s isn't coming until 2021, and you don't want the R1 (assuming it comes this year) then I'd highly recommend you get the R5. It's a great camera. While the resolution of the R5s might be 2x that of the R5, I strongly doubt the visible IQ will be 2x that of the R5 and you'll have to deal with even bigger file sizes which may (or may not) be a significant downside.


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## JohnC (Jan 21, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> If the R5s isn't coming until 2021, and you don't want the R1 (assuming it comes this year) then I'd highly recommend you get the R5. It's a great camera. While the resolution of the R5s might be 2x that of the R5, I strongly doubt the visible IQ will be 2x that of the R5 and you'll have to deal with even bigger file sizes which may (or may not) be a significant downside.



Thanks, yes I have no doubt about the capabilities and improvement in the R5, it is more waiting for my use case. On the higher end I'm purely landscape photography, and my M6II covers my general photography. Pairing of an R5s with my M6II makes a LOT of sense (for me). Particularly as I already have the 5DIV. 

On the other hand, I'm certainly not hurt by having an R5 as well, and certainly it offers some serious improvement TODAY, as well as those rarish use cases when I decide I'm going to walk around shooting birds, etc. I'm going to give it till spring (ish) before I decide to pull the trigger or not. Some of that depends on what delivery is looking like at that time however. We will see!


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## xuboran (Feb 4, 2021)

JohnC said:


> Unfortunately according to this version of the rumor that may not make it in 2021, which might force me to get the R5. I'm not sure I want to wait another year to get into mirrorless (particularly at higher resolution).


Hi, sorry how do you know there won't be high MP this year? where is the rumor? thank you


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## JohnC (Feb 5, 2021)

xuboran said:


> Hi, sorry how do you know there won't be high MP this year? where is the rumor? thank you



Hello, it seems to be implied in this thread...first post. I hope they do!


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## szamtfsh (Feb 7, 2021)

EOS R1 rumor spec:

~85MP Global Shutter CMOS
~85MP at 20fps, 21MP at 40fps Unlimited Continues Shooting
Full Sensor Large Quad Pixel Auto-focus
FF 8K/60p
1/4000s of flash sync speed
15.5 EV+ Wide Dynamic Range
ISO 160-1638400
5-axis IBIS up to 9 stop
3.5'' 9.33MP 1280nit 10-bit WCG RGB-OLED Touch Screen with 120Hz AE-AF
9.44MP 120Hz SuperSpeed AE-AF EVF
8,500 USD

Source of rumor from weibo: https://weibo.com/p/1005052424567755/home?from=page_100505&mod=TAB&is_all=1


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## SteveC (Feb 7, 2021)

Well that would be a huge change from the usual "1" paradigm--an ultra high res sensor!

EDIT: Though I note that it has a lower-res mode (1/4 of the max, which makes me think binning) with even more speed, which would resemble my stereotype of a "1" camera a lot more closely.


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## H. Jones (Feb 7, 2021)

szamtfsh said:


> EOS R1 rumor spec:
> 
> ~85MP Global Shutter CMOS
> ~85MP at 20fps, 21MP at 40fps Unlimited Continues Shooting
> ...



I'll be honest, I'd easily pay $8500 on launch day for this. I'd like to say this is too good to be true, but after the R5's specs who really knows?

I struggle to imagine that global shutter would be: 1, introduced on a 85mp camera, and 2: limited to only 40 fps in 21mp mode. Global shutter patents seem to imply 60fps or even 120fps would be tangible on a global shutter. I'd expect there's not much in terms of bandwidth issues since 120p 4k video is possible.

I will admit, if Canon was able to make a camera shoot both high quality 85mp and 21mp, it would be a holy grail for me. I'd almost always have it at 21mp 40 fps, but the best part of 85mp to me would be that it would work out to a 32mp 1.6x crop mode, which would absolutely kick ass. The 17mp crop mode of the R5 is one of my favorite features, 32mp would be icing on the cake.

There is part of me that seriously wonders if Canon might go in this direction. It would make the R5 definitely feel like a lower end camera, whereas a 30mp R1, even with global shutter, would make the R5 significant for those who need more resolution at fast speed.

On a side note from this, if Canon does have a 85mp global shutter sensor, i think it would be a safe bet that the R7 crop camera would also be a 32 megapixel global shutter sensor. I'm not sure we've all talked much about the R7, but a crop camera with a global shutter would kick major butt.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Feb 7, 2021)

The rumour of 85mp with global shutter and 15.5 stops of dynamic range has to be totally bogus. With a global shutter you usually see a loss of 1 EV of dynamic range. 13-14 stops would be a great achievement for global shutter. And why on earth would Canon make the 1 series jump from 20mp to 85mp in single generation? This all makes no sense whatsoever


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## Bdbtoys (Feb 7, 2021)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> And why on earth would Canon make the 1 series jump from 20mp to 85mp in single generation? This all makes no sense whatsoever



With binning/interpolation you could read as ~21MP image (reading 4 pixels as 1)... getting you back to 'just over' the ~20MP from the previous generation. However you get the bonus of doing full readout at 85MP. If they would go any lower than 80MP, then once divided by 4, you would end up <20MP which would also not go over well (as you would have those saying, "I used to be able to shoot 20, why is it less than that").


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## SteveC (Feb 7, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> ...If they would go any lower than 80MP, then once divided by 4, you would end up <20MP which would also not go over well (as you would have those saying, "I used to be able to shoot 20, why is it less than that").



Yes, indeed, in exactly the same way that 7D users don't look upon a crop-mode R5 as a suitable replacement because it's only 17MP.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Feb 7, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Yes, indeed, in exactly the same way that 7D users don't look upon a crop-mode R5 as a suitable replacement because it's only 17MP.


Finally! An R5 user who gets it!


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## mdcmdcmdc (Feb 7, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> With binning/interpolation you could read as ~21MP image (reading 4 pixels as 1)... getting you back to 'just over' the ~20MP from the previous generation. However you get the bonus of doing full readout at 85MP.


85 MP with a quad Bayer array makes a lot of sense for the R1 "flagship". You could have the ultra-high resolution when you need it, or the highest sensitivity/lowest noise/highest dynamic range when you need that, single shot HDR, or single shot exposure bracketing (ISO bracketing).


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## SteveC (Feb 7, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> Finally! An R5 user who gets it!



No, I *don't* get it, to be honest. The difference between 20MP and 17 shouldn't be that big a deal.

But I know that's what you're thinking.


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## H. Jones (Feb 8, 2021)

I know the rumor mill has been murky for 2021, but these rumors really have me thinking that the "R5s" and the "R1" are the same camera. I know it could very well not be the case, but that would be an incredible way to show up the A1.

I'm also sold on the idea Canon would allow for either full sensor 85mp and binned 21mp, just like in video. That makes a lot of sense in a 1 series camera.


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## SereneSpeed (Feb 8, 2021)

Man, all I want is a 30mp R5-6... Or, an EOS R with two card slots. I can’t afford a new camera and a new computer to handle all these mp’s.


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## JohnC (Feb 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I know the rumor mill has been murky for 2021, but these rumors really have me thinking that the "R5s" and the "R1" are the same camera. I know it could very well not be the case, but that would be an incredible way to show up the A1.
> 
> I'm also sold on the idea Canon would allow for either full sensor 85mp and binned 21mp, just like in video. That makes a lot of sense in a 1 series camera.


I had the same thought after seeing the 85mp rumor. Great idea unless that vertical grip is built in. That would change the rules on the landscape side.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Feb 9, 2021)

SteveC said:


> No, I *don't* get it, to be honest. The difference between 20MP and 17 shouldn't be that big a deal.
> 
> But I know that's what you're thinking.


What I also think you don't get is that it's not about the difference between 17MP and 20. It's about the difference between 17MP and 24, or 28, or 32, or whatever alternatives are out there *today*, and not just from Canon. The 7D Mark II is a 2014 camera. If Canon comes out with an "R7" RF APS-C body (and that's still a big "if"), and it only has 20MP, I'll be quite frankly disappointed. Do I *need* higher resolution? Maybe, maybe not. But again, that's my choice. The state of the art in 2021 should be more than 20MP. If the (hypothetical) Canon R7 is otherwise identical to the R6 but with a 28MP APS-C sensor (which is less than the 90D), I'll preorder it on day one.

If I want to transition to mirrorless, I will have to either buy new lenses or adapt my current ones no matter what Canon does. That realization has opened my awareness to other systems, and Canon has competition in APS-C. I really like the Sony a6600. It's got a great AF system, and I'm seeing amazing images from it with the Sony 200-600G lens (which costs a lot less than the Canon 100-500L). Sure, the a6600 has its downsides - the core sensor is at least four years old, the card slot is limited to UHS-I speed - but it's a viable option if I want to stay with APS-C and move to mirrorless, if a Canon R7 never materializes or isn't compelling.

Don't get me wrong, the R5 and R6 are incredible cameras! With that single release, Canon went from an also-ran in mirrorless to the clear leader. It's great that you consider your R5 to be "the best stills camera ever made". Use it in good health!

But if you really believe 17MP is is enough for APS-C users, doesn't it follow that 20MP should be fine for full-frame shooters? But obviously you thought the extra pixels in the R5 justified the additional cost over the R6. That was your choice, and nobody but you can say whether it was right or wrong.

I'm an APS-C shooter. That's my choice. I shoot mostly with teles and rarely wide angle. Even if you were to convince me that 17MP really was enough for the shooting I do, if I got an R5, I would have to manage raw files that are 2.5x as big as I need, just so I can crop away 60% of the image area. That doesn't make sense to me.


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## SteveC (Feb 10, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> I'm an APS-C shooter. That's my choice. I shoot mostly with teles and rarely wide angle. Even if you were to convince me that 17MP really was enough for the shooting I do, if I got an R5, I would have to manage raw files that are 2.5x as big as I need, just so I can crop away 60% of the image area. That doesn't make sense to me.



Cogent points all, except that I believe that in crop mode the R5 really does remove the data in camera so you don't have to deal with the extra large files. (If I am wrong I am willing to stand corrected.) You can choose to go into that mode (with a full frame lens) or will be put in it automatically (with an EF-S lens). However I know from personal experience that the automatic switchover does not work with Tamron lenses! You end up with a full frame file with most of an image _circle_ shown, like you were looking through a pipe. (The top and bottom of the vignetted circle are clipped off, of course.)

It's _possible_ that instead of getting an APS-C camera you'll end up being told to use an R5s with the same sort of crop mode, which would at least give you in the neighborhood of 30MP cropped. That, to be sure, would be massively expensive. One would hope whatever it is they end up offering (if they offer anything) gives you at least that much.


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## koenkooi (Feb 10, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Cogent points all, except that I believe that in crop mode the R5 really does remove the data in camera so you don't have to deal with the extra large files. [..]



Corrrect, in crop-mode you get "hardware" crop, so nice and tiny files. Combine that with CRAW and e-shutter to make the 20fps a lot less painful to sort through and store


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## TravelerNick (Feb 10, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> If they would go any lower than 80MP, then once divided by 4, you would end up <20MP which would also not go over well (as you would have those saying, "I used to be able to shoot 20, why is it less than that").



The problem with the above is those who care about speed are likely shooting in jpeg . Those who care about resolution would shoot full size raw.

Who is the market for that sort of camera? News guy who aren't allowed to manipulate the raw. Sports guys who need quick turn around. Right?

BTW if it has a global shutter why is the flash capped at 1/4000?


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## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> That's great for those that have EF lenses, and it gives support to the usefulness of the idea.
> But I don't have any EF lenses, nor do I plan to buy any as my preference is to buy RF ones once they become available. Hence the point of my post for an all-in-one solution with a R mount. If it ever happened (which would surprise me) it'd probably also become available for other popular mounts with flange-to-sensor distances >= 18mm so that it'd also cover the popular Sony FE mount. I'd also expect it is sold under the astro camera name (not Canon), with a mention of the mount versions that are supported (Canon may have licensed it or else the R protocols were reversed engineered).



If that stuff is available in EF mount now, it's only a matter of time before it will be available in RF mount as well. It just won't be made by Canon.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2021)

SteveC said:


> No, I *don't* get it, to be honest. The difference between 20MP and 17 shouldn't be that big a deal.
> 
> But I know that's what you're thinking.



The difference between 20MP and 17MP is not that big a deal, but the difference between 32MP and 17MP is much more significant.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> The problem with the above is those who care about speed are likely shooting in jpeg . Those who care about resolution would shoot full size raw.
> 
> Who is the market for that sort of camera? News guy who aren't allowed to manipulate the raw. Sports guys who need quick turn around. Right?
> 
> BTW if it has a global shutter why is the flash capped at 1/4000?



Why do you assume the camera couldn't output binned 21MP JPEG files?


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## TravelerNick (Feb 11, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Why do you assume the camera couldn't output binned 21MP JPEG files?



I don't. I was responding to the comment about people wanting higher resolution.

People shooting for news web or print aren't going to be limited at those lower levels.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 12, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> I don't. I was responding to the comment about people wanting higher resolution.
> 
> People shooting for news web or print aren't going to be limited at those lower levels.



Even news guys sometimes do photo illustrations or even (shudder) shots for the advertising department's customers' ads. Everything a PJ does is not hard news with no room for post processing.


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 12, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> I'm an APS-C shooter. That's my choice. I shoot mostly with teles and rarely wide angle. Even if you were to convince me that 17MP really was enough for the shooting I do, if I got an R5, I would have to manage raw files that are 2.5x as big as I need, just so I can crop away 60% of the image area. That doesn't make sense to me.


A drop in resolution is not as bad as it seems on the surface. Having been(and remain) a 7d2 shooter for years who just bought an R6 I am fully aware of what a drop in resolution means. But the reality is I have been able in most cases to regain that loss. Either through improvement of my field craft or the ability to use my 150-600 5.6-6.3sigma when I would have had to have changed to my 70-200 2.8.


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## szamtfsh (Feb 16, 2021)

Camera to be launched in yr2021:

FY'21: EOS R7, EOS R50, EOS R1, Z 30, Z 70, Z 8, FX3, α1, α6700, α7IV, α7SIV.

Sources from https://weibo.com/


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## mdcmdcmdc (Feb 16, 2021)

szamtfsh said:


> Camera to be launched in yr2021:
> 
> FY'21: EOS R7, EOS R50, EOS R1, Z 30, Z 70, Z 8, FX3, α1, α6700, α7IV, α7SIV.
> 
> Sources from https://weibo.com/


What, no M5 Mark II or a9 III?


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## mdcmdcmdc (Feb 16, 2021)

szamtfsh said:


> Camera to be launched in yr2021:
> 
> FY'21: EOS R7, EOS R50, EOS R1, Z 30, Z 70, Z 8, FX3, α1, α6700, α7IV, α7SIV.
> 
> Sources from https://weibo.com/


All kidding aside, what’s the EOS R50? Is that the high resolution body? I’ve been seeing that called the R5s, although that may be the American name (rumored, of course).

Also, a6700 was the rumored name back in 2019 for what Sony eventually released as the a6600. Admittedly, my rumor knowledge comes entirely from reading web sites like this one, but I haven’t seen anything recently to indicate that another a6x00 is forthcoming any time soon. (Personally I’d love to see an a6600 successor with at least 28 MP, less rolling shutter, and at least UHS-II write speeds!)


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## JohnC (Feb 19, 2021)

Well my patience ran out. BH is supposed to have some bodies end of Feb so I put an R5, RF 24-70/2.8, ef/rf adapter, RRS L plate...and a few other goodies on order today. Hopefully it will all show up relatively soon. I’ll be getting the rf 15-35 as soon as it is available.

Probably means my 5d4 will be back up status or sitting in a display case for nostalgic value. I won’t sell it or any of my ef mount glass....could be the last ones.


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