# 6DMk2 or 5Ds-R for landscape and portraits?



## LovePhotography (Apr 19, 2016)

I've got a 6D, which I adore, and a 7D2 for sports.
Wondering which I should do to upgrade from the 6D in the fall- 
Watch for price drop on 5Ds-R? 
Get 5DMk4 (and sell the 7D2),
Get the 6DMk2? 

You think 6D2 will have a better sensor than the 5D4 or the 5Ds-R? 

Anybody else wondering this?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 19, 2016)

Didn't someone already post a similar thread? Go buy a 6D MK II and give us a review. Its impossible for me to build enthusiasm over something that may happen next year, or if earthquake damage slows it down, in 3 years.


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## j-nord (Apr 19, 2016)

We havent even seen tests on the 1DXii sensor, we don't know what the 5DIV will be spec'd at or when it will be released, at this point the 6Dii is a big ??? It is, however, likely that the 6Dii sensor will be slightly better than the 5DSR though probably in the 24mpix range. Even this is speculation. Speculating further is pretty pointless.


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## nc0b (Apr 19, 2016)

You didn't say what was lacking with you your current bodies. Once I purchased my 6D, I haven't used my crop bodies all that much. Even though the 6D is somewhat limited as to AF flexibility, when paired with a 400mm f/5.6 prime, it does very well for BIF. No it doesn't have a machine gun rep rate, but I can live with its frame rate. I don't shoot sports, and recently added a 5DS R to my kit, while giving my 5D Classic to my daughter-in-law. Whatever you buy, I recommend you don't sell anything you currently own until you have fully evaluated your new purchase. Considering what good glass costs, having three bodies for six months to a year may make sense. Only dispose of something if it is just gathering dust. Both your bodies can take great pictures. I added the 5DS R for two reasons, to put more pixels on flying raptors, and to use my 1.4X TC III with my 100-400mm II for f/8 focusing for general wildlife.


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## Sabaki (Apr 19, 2016)

Reeeeeally love my 6D! But the only minor gripe is the lack of more AF points. 

I've recently started doing people photography and I frequently cannot place an AF point on the model's eye due to poor AF point spread.

But it's a great camera otherwise


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## bholliman (Apr 19, 2016)

A 6D and 7D2 make a really nice set of camera bodies, they compliment each other nicely. What are you looking for that these can't give you? Until the 5D4 and 6D2 specs are known and they are reviewed, a question like this is impossible to answer.


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## Hector1970 (Apr 19, 2016)

Save your money, keep your 6D and 7DII.
Wait for the 5D V. It will have 16K Video, 20 FPS and a 200MP sensor with a huge dynamic range. 

Or go somewhere nice, I always think that's the best way to spend money on photography.
A good location is far better than more expensive gear.
I think the degree of improvements these days are getting barely perceptible to the human eye.
It's like the poor maligned existing 50mm 1.4 that people were discussing yesterday and the desperate need for a new version. I had it for many years and really enjoyed it. No it's not the sharpest lens ever made but it makes lovely photos and many owners have enjoyed it. I've seen many wonderful photos taken with it because the photographer actually left his PC and went out an took photos with it in creative ways.

I'd be slow to recommend a 5DSR to anyone who isn't already sure they need it.


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## jeanluc (Apr 19, 2016)

I am deciding something similar; upgrade 5d3 to 5dsr now or wait for 5d4 in fall.

I like the 5d3 a lot, no problems, just ready to upgrade as I do every few years. Sounds like OP is in same boat with his 6D.

Personally, the only reason for hand-wringing is that I have 3 major photo trips between now and the end of October, about the time the 5d4 will be out. All landscape, which is why I was thinking 5dsr now.

I am going to wait until the 5d4 specs are clear, hopefully in Aug. then decide. I hope the MP are closer to 30, and if they are, that would do it for me. But we will see.

For anyone deciding right now about moving from 5d3 or 6d to 5DSR, the equation is really
great resolution/older but still good sensor (5DSR) VS. unknown but probably a little better resolution/newest sensor (5D4/6D2) with increased DR and video stuff you may or may not care about.

I personally think the 5DSR will get an upgraded sensor fairly soon after the 6D2 comes out, so maybe in as little as a year and a half, but who knows.

So I would keep your current bodies unless you absolutely need more MP right now, as the future should be a lot clearer by the end of the summer.


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 19, 2016)

nc0b said:


> You didn't say what was lacking with you your current bodies. Once I purchased my 6D, I haven't used my crop bodies all that much. Even though the 6D is somewhat limited as to AF flexibility, when paired with a 400mm f/5.6 prime, it does very well for BIF. No it doesn't have a machine gun rep rate, but I can live with its frame rate. I don't shoot sports, and recently added a 5DS R to my kit, while giving my 5D Classic to my daughter-in-law. Whatever you buy, I recommend you don't sell anything you currently own until you have fully evaluated your new purchase. Considering what good glass costs, having three bodies for six months to a year may make sense. Only dispose of something if it is just gathering dust. Both your bodies can take great pictures. I added the 5DS R for two reasons, to put more pixels on flying raptors, and to use my 1.4X TC III with my 100-400mm II for f/8 focusing for general wildlife.


I second that except I have the 5DS not the R version and bought it for more resolution in landscape for harsher cropping when required (had bad experiance with moire so didnt want AA filter removed). The 6D is a great camera regardless of the 11 AF points hence why its been out so long and only in certain very grey scenes can you see any faults in the sensor (low level banding) but overall the IQ is as good as or better than the 5D MKIII.


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## takesome1 (Apr 19, 2016)

LovePhotography said:


> You think 6D2 will have a better sensor than the 5D4 or the 5Ds-R?
> 
> Anybody else wondering this?



On the premise that a 5D4 and a 6D2 are released this year.

You are asking will the entry level 6D2 <$2K body have a better sensor than the >$3K 5D4 and the 5Ds R?

I would say sure, Canon is going to cannibalize sales of their high end bodies.


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## Refurb7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Get 5DMk4 or get the 6DMk2? Someone ... please, please tell me. I need to know which of these two unreleased cameras to buy. Never mind that you know absolutely nothing about my photography. Never mind that these two cameras don't exist yet. Just tell me what to buy.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 19, 2016)

YES A CAMERA THAT THOSE NOT EXIST YET 
BRILLANT IDEA lmao 6d mark 2


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## ajfotofilmagem (Apr 19, 2016)

LovePhotography said:


> You think 6D2 will have a better sensor than the 5D4 or the 5Ds-R?


Making a guessing exercise, I say 6D Mark II must have better image quality compared to 5DS-R (except sharpness), and may be equal to the 5D Mark iv.


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## RGF (Apr 19, 2016)

my crystal ball says wait for the 6D M4. much better than the 6D M2.

Or you could buy a camera that is available today and enjoy it until the new models come out.


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## LovePhotography (Apr 19, 2016)

You are asking will the entry level 6D2 <$2K body have a better sensor than the >$3K 5D4 and the 5Ds R?

I would say sure, Canon is going to cannibalize sales of their high end bodies.
[/quote]

Canon does it all the time. It's the only way to improve the product line. For example, the $600 T6i may well have a better sensor then the 7D2 which is still fairly new and sells for twice as much. Pax.


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## LovePhotography (Apr 19, 2016)

nc0b said:


> You didn't say what was lacking with you your current bodies. Once I purchased my 6D, I haven't used my crop bodies all that much. Even though the 6D is somewhat limited as to AF flexibility, when paired with a 400mm f/5.6 prime, it does very well for BIF. No it doesn't have a machine gun rep rate, but I can live with its frame rate. I don't shoot sports, and recently added a 5DS R to my kit, while giving my 5D Classic to my daughter-in-law. Whatever you buy, I recommend you don't sell anything you currently own until you have fully evaluated your new purchase. Considering what good glass costs, having three bodies for six months to a year may make sense. Only dispose of something if it is just gathering dust. Both your bodies can take great pictures. I added the 5DS R for two reasons, to put more pixels on flying raptors, and to use my 1.4X TC III with my 100-400mm II for f/8 focusing for general wildlife.



The only thing lacking in the 6D is focus points, and some pixelating with lots of cropping (like pics of the moon, or far off people, animals, etc.). Love my 6D, but I figure the next generation will be even better, whether that is the 5DsR or 6D2. I've already got everything from 8mm to 600mm covered with great glass, either L glass or Sig Arts. More than I can move without a shopping cart. So, I'm just thinking body purchase.

It's a good point about the earthquakes. Makes me think more along the 5DsR line... (
Feel sorry for Japan.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 19, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> LovePhotography said:
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> > You think 6D2 will have a better sensor than the 5D4 or the 5Ds-R?
> ...


How do you qualify "better sensor". The 6D pixels are better than 5D Mark-III pixels and the 5Ds-R pixels as well. On a pixel level the 5Ds-R performs slightly worse than the 7D Mark-II, which I found disappointing. If you scale all images to the same resolution then the 5DsR will have marginally better performance up to ISO 400 after which the 6D overtakes it. So the precedent has been set of the 6D having comparatively good sensor. 

Slow continuous fps, basic AF and single card slot, lack of headphone jack etc... is what prevents the 6D from cannibalizing their high-end bodies, not the sensor performance.


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## takesome1 (Apr 19, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> takesome1 said:
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It depends on what you think is a better pixel. If you think size matters than sure the 6D is better. I suppose if you primarily "Scale" to 4x6 then the 6D resolution disadvantage would look really good compared to the 5Ds R.
Then if you primarily shoot at ISO 1600 and above the 6D would have a vastly superior sensor, or would it? You just scaled your 6D and 5Ds R image to 4x6. Of course how does that scaled comparison shake out when you blow your shot up poster size?

So to your question: _"How do you qualify "better sensor"_ I would say, how do you qualify a better pixel?


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 20, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> StudentOfLight said:
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A better pixel is able to record a given portion of the scene more faithfully. 

Say for example you shoot an image of a flower with two different cameras so that size of the flower in both images is the same number of pixels. Assuming they use equivalent lenses, the camera with the better pixels captures the flower more faithfully.

p.s. I've attached two 100% crops images which show how a few months ago I captured a subject to the same pixel scale on two different cameras systems. (I was comparing the shooting experience of the Tamron 35VC on APS-C vs the 40mm STM on full frame.)


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## bdunbar79 (Apr 20, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> takesome1 said:
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Fortunately we don't print and view pixels, we print and view photos. The 5Ds vs. 7D2 comparison makes little sense since the 5Ds produces better IQ and that's all that matters.


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## j-nord (Apr 20, 2016)

Apparently, debating hypothetical specs of future cameras isn't enough, we now need to hypothetically compare the hypothetical specs of two hypothetical cameras and make a real purchase decision.


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## takesome1 (Apr 20, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> takesome1 said:
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So with a 5Ds R you modify your FOV to make this happen? 
Single pixel comparison when you should be comparing how 2+ pixels of the 5Ds R perform vs the 1 of the 6D II.
Your giving the old rehashed "crop factor" comparison, that comparison really doesn't apply with the release of the 5Ds R.

Now you can compare equally framed pictures, with the same fov from the same distance. 1 large pixel vs 2+ smaller of the 5Ds R.


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## takesome1 (Apr 20, 2016)

bdunbar79 said:


> StudentOfLight said:
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Well some do print and view pixels but all of their non photographer buddies are not impressed.

But you are right with the rest of your statement and it is all that matters.


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## Mikehit (Apr 20, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> A better pixel is able to record a given portion of the scene more faithfully.
> 
> Say for example you shoot an image of a flower with two different cameras so that size of the flower in both images is the same number of pixels. Assuming they use equivalent lenses, the camera with the better pixels captures the flower more faithfully.
> 
> p.s. I've attached two 100% crops images which show how a few months ago I captured a subject to the same pixel scale on two different cameras systems. (I was comparing the shooting experience of the Tamron 35VC on APS-C vs the 40mm STM on full frame.)



But you are not comparing pixels. You are comparing the sensor technology, the AD converter, software and the and the processing engine. 

And as takesome1 says, I frame a shot to capture the picture I want and not so that the main subject is covered by a specific number of pixels.


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## Sporgon (Apr 20, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> StudentOfLight said:
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Yes, just what I was thinking reading this thread. The Digic processor has a huge influence, as does the raw converter. I recently went back over some 5D raw files with the latest ACR and it was like - "wow". The results from the Canon G1x ( digic 5) and G1xII ( digic 6) are superb, better than the 7D, which uses basically the same sensor tech but digic 4. 

The continually improving QE (quantum efficiency) of the sensor only seems to have a benefit in operating at higher ISO in practice. If I expose correctly at base ISO I cannot see any output benefits in a camera that has a QE of 58% over one that has a QE of 28%.


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## bdunbar79 (Apr 20, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> StudentOfLight said:
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Agreed. But even if he did do that, the magnification is still different between the two cameras. I'm failing to understand how from his methodology this was accounted for. The only way I can see is put 20 MP's of the 5Ds on subject, 20 MP's of the 7D2 on subject, then crop the 5Ds image to the FoV of the 7D2 image. I've done that. The 5Ds image is still better. AlanF did the same as well, so I would almost even argue that the 7D2 pixels are NOT better.


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## takesome1 (Apr 20, 2016)

bdunbar79 said:


> takesome1 said:
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I have done this to with the 5Ds R. The difference in the two with the 5Ds R cropped is negligible and definitely he 5Ds R is not wore than the 7D II.

But using two different lenses, I see no comparison with his methodology that you can determine that one pixel is better than the other.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 21, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> StudentOfLight said:
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I did (see red highlighted portion)

Here are couple of factors which can erode the resolution advantage the 5Ds cameras have:

using higher ISO settings (e.g. ISO>1600)
camera shake (due to slow shutter speed, no IS, no tripod)
using narrow apertures (the effect of diffraction is increasingly apparent from f/8-f/32)
using a lens with bad aberrations (lack of contrast, strong falloff, poor sharpness, chromatic aberration, LoCA, astrigmatism)
(There are probably a few more)

If there were no advantage to the 5Ds/R then those cameras would not exist. There are situations where that advantage is to be had, but it is not automatically going to be there just because of the sensor.

My whole point of joining the conversation was in response to the quoted text highlighted in purple. The fact is that 6D sensor is superior to the 5D-III sensor and *in just some cases* better than the 5Ds cameras as well (e.g. higher ISO e.g. ISO 3200-12800) Therefore, I see no reason why the 6D-II could not have a better sensor (in more that just some cases) than the older generation technology in the 5Ds R. 

p.s. If I could, I would transplant my 6D sensor into my 5D-III. It's just better. I'd also swap in the 5Ds mirror drive, I love that silky smooth motion.


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## YellowJersey (Apr 21, 2016)

I would wait for the 5D mkIV and the 6D mkII and then assess your options once all the cameras are out rather than basing a decision on speculation of how well these cameras will perform. I'd say a 5D mkIV is all but guaranteed and it's highly probably that a 6D mkII will follow, so we should see both released by this time next year. 

It would really suck to spend the money on a 5Ds/r only to find the 5D mkIV and/or 6D mkII blow it away, save for resolution.


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