# Macros with APS-C or Fullframe?



## Ralph (Jun 28, 2014)

After I upgraded my camera gear I am not sure anymore which camera to use for macro shots.

I have the Canon 70D (APS-C) and 6D (Fullframe). My lenses are a Canon Macro 100mm IS L 2.8 and a MP-E 65mm with the MT-24EX Twin Lite Macro flash. The latter lens I don't use so often.

I planned to use the 6D for portraits and weddings and the 70D for macros, since it has a superior AF and in difficult angles close to the ground the touchscreen focus in liveview is very helpful. But the image quality of the 6D is so superior that I now have doubts... However with the 6D I have the issue of a narrower DOF... Or is a certain lens body combonation the best way: 70D 100mm, 6D MP-E 65mm?

I typically focus on the following kind of photos - butterfly and insect macros:


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## Click (Jun 28, 2014)

Awesome shots. I really like the first picture. Well done.


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## Valvebounce (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi Ralph. 
I would use whatever gear got you those photos, they look really good to me! 

Cheers Graham.


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## Ralph (Jun 28, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Ralph.
> I would use whatever gear got you those photos, they look really good to me!
> 
> Cheers Graham.



Thanks Click and Graham. These shots were taken with my 350D that I had for almost 10 years. It is so old now that I really deserved to upgrade ... But now I would be happy to decide on the right lens body combination


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jun 29, 2014)

I see more advantage in APS-C by allowing wider depth of field. In addition, the articulated LCD touch screen makes it easy to work in unusual angles.


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## Straightshooter (Jun 29, 2014)

Hi Ralph, I would go for the 1DX personally! It takes much better photos than the 6D and has a higher burst rate (very important for insect macro photography) Also, it is more weather sealed in case you get caught in the rain... It is really worth the expense!!


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## Jamesy (Jun 29, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I see more advantage in APS-C by allowing wider depth of field. In addition, the articulated LCD touch screen makes it easy to work in unusual angles.


+1


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## wopbv4 (Jun 29, 2014)

Hi,

I use a 7D and a 1DX for macro, with 100 mm macro II ISM and extension tubes.

Because of the Effectice Focal Length increase with the 7D , it gives you more freedom with a better working distance.
So, I prefer the 7D for hand held shots as long as there is ENOUGH light. I do not want to go above iso 800 with the 7D and at 1/100, F16, it gets tricky in darker areas. 

So , on a rainy day, the 7D stays home and the 1DX with it's superior iso (noise) quality is the preferred choice.

If I go for the full monty, so tripod, focus stacking, extension tubes ...... then I use the 1DX because of the better IQ.

Hope this helps

P.S Canon Angle finder C ~200$ is an extremely useful tool for low to the ground shots


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## Straightshooter (Jun 29, 2014)

wopbv4 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I use a 7D and a 1DX for macro, with 100 mm macro II ISM and extension tubes.
> 
> ...




+1


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## dak723 (Jun 29, 2014)

Since you have both cameras, it seems like you will be the best person to answer your own question by taking the same or similar shots with each camera. That is what I would recommend. When I got a 6D after having a crop camera, I found the lesser "zoom" and the different DOF to be a problem with close-up or macro work. But that does not mean that you will have the same issues. Test it out and let us know what the answer is!


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2014)

Depends on what/how you shoot. If you're at the minimum focus distance (1:1 mag, or higher with the MP-E 65), the FF camera gives you a wider field of view and a (slightly) _deeper_ depth of field. The FF image will also be sharper. The APS-C camera will put more pixels on target. For the same framing, you'll get more working distance and deeper DoF with the APS-C body. 

For my usual macro shooting (100L and MP-E 65 + MT-24EX as well), I prefer the FF sensor.


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## dufflover (Jun 29, 2014)

Is there any specific part about the 6D you really like about the image quality? Is it because for the same lens it's more forgiving and looks sharper? Or is it because given the small apertures in macro the cleaner high ISO?

If the thinner DoF is the main concern, you can try shooting with the same lens at roughly the same distance so the DoF is the same, then crop it in post. Yes it's a bit of waste and you get into a comparison on MPs vs noise vs whatever-else but could be a good place to start with the 6D and practice from there.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 29, 2014)

It's basically a wash so long as AF is not considerably better or sensor technoloy (note technology! talking about per sensor AREA, not per pixel or per entire sensor).

If the goal is to get the same magnification on both, the DOF, noise, everything all evens out, although with the lower density camera you might need to go to extension tubes with the 100L. With the MP-E you have no AF so no potential difference there between how AF reacts at one power vs another. In that case, only if the MP-E at max 5x is still not enough then you go with the camera with higher photosite density (70D in this case).

If the 6D AF turns out to be bad with macro then maybe 70D is the better choice when using 70D. 5D2 AF was actually pretty decent for macro with center point. 5D3 AF is good, 7D was good for macro too. Not sure if 6D has the auto hyper speed AI Macro Servo mode of the 7D (not sure the 70D has that either though). 5D3 can be tuned to react faster and more twitchily.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 29, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I see more advantage in APS-C by allowing wider depth of field. In addition, the articulated LCD touch screen makes it easy to work in unusual angles.



APS-C often has higher photosite density, so per pixel DOF for macro is actually less at same lens macro power. Once you equalize for sensor density and lens macro power to even things up then DOF is the same, neither worse, nor better once you are going for same pixels per bug from both cameras.


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## bardamu (Jun 29, 2014)

Hi Ralph-

Firstly - nice shots...

One issue you might find doing macro with the FF is the shorter focal length. I know insect photographers often prefer telephoto macro, primarily to avoid scaring off their subjects.

I do a lot of macro with APS-C cams, the 100 f/2.8 non-L and MP-E 65mm but I also bought the EF-S 60mm about a year ago mainly for larger subjects (especially when working on a copy stand) but also as a backup macro lens (I did have my 100 fail once, blowing the motor). I'm certainly happy with the EF-S 60 but I was a bit shocked at how short the working distance is when approaching 1:1.

Hence you may find the 70D better to work with, but if you wanted to use the 6D more then adding a telephoto macro lens will be beneficial. The Canon is very expensive but Tamron and Sigma also make decent versions. 

Yes crop cams have a greater dof and FFs better IQ but I don't see this as the most important issue really for `normal' macro shooting. If you look at the photozone reviews for example about the highest rez they get from a Canon crop - using the optimal aperture - is just under 2700 (Sigma 35A), whereas the 100L exceeds this across the entire frame on FF even at F16. Where crops do help is at very high magnifications, when dof is extremely thin. I photograph a lot of stuff under 23mm, more to the point a lot of stuff under 4.6mm (minimum fov with the MP-E on APS-C) so crop is a no-brainer for me. Crop iq is still very good. Most macro shooting is at low ISO.

I find the flip screen of the 70D to be very helpful and versatile and I love being able to turn the screen inward when the camera is not in use, so it is less likely to get scratched during transport, etc.

Overall getting a focal length that you are comfortable is what I see as the main issue. The quality of macro shots has more to do with composition, lighting, stability, technique, aperture choice, dedication, effort, etc than with sensor size.


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## verysimplejason (Jun 29, 2014)

I've used 500D previously and now a 6D with my 100mm F2.8 macro usm non-L. I still prefer 500D if there's good light. I'll only use 6D if there's not much light. 500D image is still sharper than a cropped image from 6D.


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## GaryJ (Jun 29, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Depends on what/how you shoot. If you're at the minimum focus distance (1:1 mag, or higher with the MP-E 65), the FF camera gives you a wider field of view and a (slightly) _deeper_ depth of field. The FF image will also be sharper. The APS-C camera will put more pixels on target. For the same framing, you'll get more working distance and deeper DoF with the APS-C body.
> 
> For my usual macro shooting (100L and MP-E 65 + MT-24EX as well), I prefer the FF sensor.


+1


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