# How wide for Antelope Canyon?



## dawgfanjeff (Apr 6, 2016)

I have opted for both a photographer's tour, and a longer one later with the wife. 
I'll be shooting with my 5DIII with tripod. I will be bringing my 16-35mm f/2.8L, I could rent the 11-24 or 8-15 fisheye? I've seen some samples of these, and am tempted to go with the fisheye, and swapping no more than once down there. 
I am learning toward the fisheye and reusing it around the Horseshoe Bend, and grand canyon, and wherever else we wander. 
Thoughts?


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## docsavage123 (Apr 6, 2016)

I did Upper Antelope Canyon last September and was a great experience. I used a Sigma 17-35 F4 and long exposures. You will find trip after trip of tourists coming through when you are taking your pictures. I also opted for the longer tour and Rattlesnake Canyon was amazing, not so sure about Owl Canyon though as there was well only 1 owl and not as good as Antelope or Rattlesnake. Your 16-35L wide angle should suffice but I would also consider your standard zoom as well. Rattlesnake canyon I would recommend just your Camera and 1 lense unless you have a pouch to carry the other one in - you probably wont need your tripod for that. 

The guide who took us round only recommended a wide angle and standard zoom. so the fish eye could be too wide you may also get other peopl your wife and guide in the shots as there is not a lot of room to move down there. My best shot was unfortunately one of my friends I was traveling with his Tamron 15-30 lense and camera in view. If you do do Owl Canyon you may required a 70-200 as well for the Owl(s) I opted for the 100-400 instead.

Enjoy your trip


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## lightthief (Apr 6, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> I have opted for both a photographer's tour, and a longer one later with the wife.
> I'll be shooting with my 5DIII with tripod. I will be bringing my 16-35mm f/2.8L, I could rent the 11-24 or 8-15 fisheye? I've seen some samples of these, and am tempted to go with the fisheye, and swapping no more than once down there.
> I am learning toward the fisheye and reusing it around the Horseshoe Bend, and grand canyon, and wherever else we wander.
> Thoughts?


Hi,

2012 i used my 50D and the 10-22 on a tripod (upper antelope). This was fine, but we hab only 30-60sec. at every position to get the picture. so, the photographer's tour seems to be a better choice.
The second body was my 400D and the Sigma 10mm 2.8 Fisheye, handheld. While the fisheye pics from the upper antelope are "only okay", the fisheye-effect were very good at the lower antelope. My wife used it for almost macros and very often upward and i like the pictures very much. You only have to be careful with direct sunlight.
Do not switch lenses in the tunnels, there is to much dust in the air. We had no dust in the lower antelope.

If i would go to the antelope again, i would buy the 11-24 as the first lens on tripod - but more because of the lower antelope. i think, i would love the wide shots. For the upper antelope, i think the 16-35 is fine. A 15mm fisheye is fine, too, the 8mm circle effect... i guess i wouldn't use it.

Some weeks ago i saw pictures from the lower antelope, made with a 70-200. this idea and the results were great.

good luck!

Lightthief


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## kaihp (Apr 6, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> I have opted for both a photographer's tour, and a longer one later with the wife.
> I'll be shooting with my 5DIII with tripod. I will be bringing my 16-35mm f/2.8L, I could rent the 11-24 or 8-15 fisheye? I've seen some samples of these, and am tempted to go with the fisheye, and swapping no more than once down there.
> I am learning toward the fisheye and reusing it around the Horseshoe Bend, and grand canyon, and wherever else we wander.
> Thoughts?



Upper or Lower Antelope Canyon?

The upper is A-shaped (ie: wide at the bottom), while the Lower is V-shaped (narrow at the bottom).

After bringing two bodies to the Upper (5D3+17-40L & 50D+24-70LII), I opted for only one body & lens at the Lower: 5D3 + 17-40L. Sure, there were a couple of occasions where i would have liked something wider (or longer), but overall it was the right choice. It's _very_ dusty in the Canyons, so I would recommend against switching lenses.

As for Horseshoe Bend, about 20mm on a FF is enough to get the full Horseshoe in the frame. Remember to bring a flashlight, if you want to go there before sunrise (I can recommend that).


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## dawgfanjeff (Apr 6, 2016)

Good advice, I am thinking the 16er will do it....

I am doing Upper Antelope alone (no tagalongs permitted, photographers only), then Upper antelope (again), Rattlesnake and Owl later with my wife. 

They mention the special use permit..."You are required to have a Special Use Permit if you: intend to sell, publish for public viewing on the Internet (i.e. Facebook, Instagram, Flickr and/or portfolios/own webpage), print for magazine or other written literature." Did you guys use one, assuming you posted the pics anywhere?


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## applecider (Apr 6, 2016)

Dear Dawg,

Been dying to write that,,,

I just got back from antelope so I'll give some thoughts while they are fresh.

Antelope canyon during the day is a Charlie Foxtrott, with way too many people and crowd control issues so don't plan on having a photographers experience. That said the guides do try to give the photographers defined as those with a tripod, and paying the photographers fee a chance to get some shots. I used a 16-35mm and also had a 14mm rokinon, but didn't feel as if I had time to do the live view and composure.

Consider doing canyon X, with one of the four wheel companies, our group of six had the canyons- there are two to ourselves for a morning. It's not as iconic as antelope but almost as good.

I was with a group of six and we also went to antelope at night which was more about the stars than the canyon, but also a decent experience.

Here's a mostly unedited image from one of them, I haven't sorted the trip out yet, and for those who think that GPS is a gimmick I wish I had it for this trip alone. I did use a geotag program but I'd prefer GPS.

If you're going to rent a lens consider the canon 14mm as it autofocuses and thus affords slightly faster setup.


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## applecider (Apr 6, 2016)

And some thoughts about Page AZ where we stayed...

The ATT cell service is awful. If you fly through Phoenix there is apparently a shuttle bus that goes to Flagstaff and maybe Page for 45-60$, the flight I had to Flagstaff was unable to land so I had to spend an additional night waiting for weather changes. 

State 48, canyon crepe caffe and El Tapatio were good restaurants. 

I had no qualms about changing lenses, when the guides weren't throwing dirt into the air, but lens fronts do get pretty dusty, bring a rocket blower or your choice of lens cleaner. One of the photographers in our group of six in antelope had the new Zeiss otus 28mm, I was hugh, he did the photo tour two days in a row.

I'm not sure what the permits were for it is my understanding that they were for commercial use and were per session, the web is your friend, but the language is sort of vague. Non-commercial selling use doesn't seem to need to be permitted, I think the tribe would be happy for everyone to get a permit and that's why they leave it vague. 

There are some great dark sky areas around Page so consider planning an early morning shoot if you go soon as the milky way is in it's glory in the wee hours of the morning, or was while we were there I use sky safari app on iPad and TPE (the photographers ephemeris) to check on the alignment of the cosmos.

Don't expect to have any of the antelope canyons to yourself. Owl and rattlesnake you might. Good shooting and show us your stuff.

Below is a shot of horseshoe bend at 21mm f8 1/40 on a 5DMiii, again adjusted in ACR but otherwise unchanged.

You might think about renting a 5DSR too the detail available might be worth it.


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## applecider (Apr 6, 2016)

Here is one from canyon X at 14mm I think, just the right wideness I think.

Edit my gps log showed that this was from the northern antelope canyon which is probably the lower antelope.


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## ray5 (Apr 6, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> I have opted for both a photographer's tour, and a longer one later with the wife.
> I'll be shooting with my 5DIII with tripod. I will be bringing my 16-35mm f/2.8L, I could rent the 11-24 or 8-15 fisheye? I've seen some samples of these, and am tempted to go with the fisheye, and swapping no more than once down there.
> I am learning toward the fisheye and reusing it around the Horseshoe Bend, and grand canyon, and wherever else we wander.
> Thoughts?


I was there Sept 2015. My widest is 16-35 F4 on 5D III. Found that to be plenty wide. I took photo tour of the upper. Crazy crowded and very pressured atmosphere. Due to storms the lower canyon was closed the next day 
Got some very good advice here. Dial in your settings before hand, saves time. People will be in your shot all the time, the hot tour guides are good and try to keep folks out but they still get in. Just wait and you will get the shot. A lot of my shots were 10-14 secs so not an issue. I am really disappointed that I missed the lower canyon. The upper gets more attention due to the light beams(which are awesome) but having seen some pictures of both, the lower attracts me more due to the the different color hues. Timing is important. Lower Canyon, go early 830amish. Upper Canyon to capture light beams around 11-noon.
It's an amazing place. The Horseshoe is close so definitely go there. I shot there both sunrise and sunset. I preferred the sunset. The change in lighting is tremendous between the sunrise and sunset. It's a personal preference. 16mm will not be enough to capture then entire bend but I shot panorama as I am scared of anything wider.
I wouldn't change lenses in the canyon, too dusty. I rented a second body(5D MKIII) as I wanted to be familiar with the body even in the dark. It was just a safety measure in case my first body had issues, didn't want to be stuck without a camera.
The upside of my cancel lower tour was I got more time in Monument Valley which was my next stop. Hope this helps. Enjoy!
Ray


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## applecider (Apr 7, 2016)

Here's a panorama of the milky way from around horseshoe bend. This was taken in 5 images with a rokinon 24mm 1.4 at f2. The orange light pollution is the navajo power plant, I should've scouted in the daytime to find a better dark sky there are many areas available.

Can't speak to the wideness of needed lens since it is a pano. 

I could spend a month around here and still find new opportunities, have to get a motorhome and 3500 four wheel drive diesel truck and go for it.


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## dawgfanjeff (Apr 27, 2016)

Just got back...
You guys nailed it. But to amplify a few points:
1. 16mm is plenty wide. Any wider and you'd end up cropping out a bunch of other lenses, feet, and people unsuccessfully ducking out of your shot. 
2. It's really, really dusty. Don't plan on changing lenses. You can pack light.
3. It's really hectic, crowded, and can be rather stressful. The shafts of light are very short lived (no more than a few mins), and while the guides to a good job of keep the hordes at bay, they can't for long. 
4. I did the "pro" photographer tour. In provides a few advantages. You get a clear view of all the spots in prime lighting. The guides seem to be in cahoots across tour companies, which is nice. They sometimes give each other S___, "Dude, setup your photographers better, etc...". The others on the tour were all friendly, respectful, and focused on getting their shots. There were at least two actual pros who'd flown in just for the 1.5 hour tour. 
5. Most of it shot Av, f/8.0, ISO 100. This yields shutter speed between 5 and 30 seconds. Since the shutter is open for such a long percentage of the prime time with a clear shot and the right light, you really need to...
6. KNOW YOUR GEAR. You'll be adjusting settings in near dark sometimes, frequently adjusting your tripod, changing positions, etc...And you have precious little time. An articulating screen would have been very helpful for upshots from the floor...
7. Live view is extremely handy, but it's dark..focusing will be a frustrating.
8. Bring an extra battery (esp is using live view at all). I can usually shoot almost a full day on one battery, and I almost drained mine in 1.5 hours with live view. 
9. I used a remote transmitter to trigger the shutter, I recommend it. 
10. Bring a cloth to keep lens a clear as possible. 

I did a second tour with my wife of the same Lower antelope, Owl canyon and rattlesnake Canyon. Lower Antelope is the best, and I can attest...the primo light a couple of hours earlier and the guides made a big difference. 
Some samples, note I don't think I bumped saturation at all. I did adjust shadows and highlights some, so these are not SOOC, but not hard to achieve either:
Enjoy! 
Whole album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffd/albums/72157667056489770


IMG_0417 by Jeff, on Flickr



IMG_0706 by Jeff, on Flickr



IMG_0546 by Jeff, on Flickr

Some fun:


IMG_0583 by Jeff, on Flickr

Bonus Content (Pano of 2 shots at 16mm):


IMG_1048 by Jeff, on Flickr


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## bitm2007 (Apr 27, 2016)

> I am doing Upper Antelope alone (no tagalongs permitted, photographers only), then Upper antelope (again), Rattlesnake and Owl later with my wife.



I'd fit in lower as well if you can, it's fantastic but very narrow. I done it when it was officially closed, the Navajo let our photography tour in, providing we didn't mind wading though the water that was draining out of the canyon. Even then it was problematical, as there's not enough room to pass other photographers for much of it length.


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## Krob78 (Apr 28, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> Just got back...
> You guys nailed it. But to amplify a few points:
> 1. 16mm is plenty wide. Any wider and you'd end up cropping out a bunch of other lenses, feet, and people unsuccessfully ducking out of your shot.
> 2. It's really, really dusty. Don't plan on changing lenses. You can pack light.
> ...



Very, Very nice Jeff! Thanks for the tips too!


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## dawgfanjeff (Apr 28, 2016)

Thanks!
I did hit Owl canyon with the 100-400 and found 4 owls. 


IMG_0933 by Jeff, on Flickr


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## scottkinfw (Apr 28, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> I have opted for both a photographer's tour, and a longer one later with the wife.
> I'll be shooting with my 5DIII with tripod. I will be bringing my 16-35mm f/2.8L, I could rent the 11-24 or 8-15 fisheye? I've seen some samples of these, and am tempted to go with the fisheye, and swapping no more than once down there.
> I am learning toward the fisheye and reusing it around the Horseshoe Bend, and grand canyon, and wherever else we wander.
> Thoughts?



Why not drop about $300 and get a Samyang 14 mmF 2.8.? Works great and you can get some nice pics of Horse Shoe Bend (just barely). Plus you get to keep the lens.

The 16-35 should be fine for the canyon. You will be shooting @ about 30 seconds or so if I recall so have a very sturdy tripod.

I like to fly in to Las Vegas, rent a car and drive. The scenery is outstanding, the car is cheap, and the drive is really easy. 

Enjoy.

Sek


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## dawgfanjeff (Apr 28, 2016)

The trip is over We left from Vegas, drove through the snow to Bryce Canyon, down to Page. Then down to Grand Canyon, across Hoover dam, and back to Atlanta. 4 day round trip. Car is cheap, and the drive is indeed beautiful and easy.


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## M_S (Apr 28, 2016)

Since I don't have a wider lens, I took my 24-70 II with me and was very pleased. At least with that. For the overall experience: I think Antelope Canoyon was my single worst experience. Ever. Period. 
At least 200 people in that small canyon with more on the way. The guys which took the photo tour had to cope with that too, so I was glad not to get it, because of misinformation and some cooked up excuses at the entrance. Canyon itself is nice and colourful, but I doubt I will ever set foot in there again. Simply too crowded and too hectic.
I would advice against changing lenses in that dusty air. I had to get my lens repaired after that, because some dust particles found their way inside and the thread after all, resulting in some scratching noises while turning the aperture ring.


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## kaihp (Apr 28, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> Just got back...
> You guys nailed it. But to amplify a few points:
> 1. 16mm is plenty wide. Any wider and you'd end up cropping out a bunch of other lenses, feet, and people unsuccessfully ducking out of your shot.
> 2. It's really, really dusty. Don't plan on changing lenses. You can pack light.
> ...



Jeff, great shots. I didn't get to see/shoot the lightshafts in October, so I'm a bit jealous of you right now and want to do the Canyons sometime in the future.

As for choice of lens, what would be your recommendation be to future visitors?


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## dawgfanjeff (Apr 28, 2016)

16-35mm on FF ideally, any wider and you're in fisheye territory, which could be fun, but not as the only lens there.
I'd take camera/lens on tripod, trigger in one pocket, extra battery, memory card, and cloth in the other. That's it. 

As I mentioned before, the light shafts aren't there long, and only when the photographer only tours are running, ~10-12, which I guess varies a bit throughout the yr.


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## kaihp (Apr 30, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> 16-35mm on FF ideally, any wider and you're in fisheye territory


Great. Thanks Jeff.


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## Krob78 (May 4, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> 16-35mm on FF ideally, any wider and you're in fisheye territory, which could be fun, but not as the only lens there.
> I'd take camera/lens on tripod, trigger in one pocket, extra battery, memory card, and cloth in the other. That's it.
> 
> As I mentioned before, the light shafts aren't there long, and only when the photographer only tours are running, ~10-12, which I guess varies a bit throughout the yr.


Likely no fisheye issues with the 11-24mm either!


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## PhotographerJim (May 20, 2016)

dawgfanjeff said:


> Whole album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffd/albums/72157667056489770
> 
> 
> IMG_0417 by Jeff, on Flickr
> ...



Good advice Jeff, nice shots!


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