# Canon smarter than we think



## unfocused (Mar 29, 2012)

As the new 5DIII starts to appear in the real world I think I'm starting to get a better feel for Canon's strategy and, I must say, it seems pretty brilliant.

When Canon announced the 5DIII they placed a lot of emphasis in their announcement on the camera being the result of feedback from professional photographers. But, of course, "professional" is a very broad term that can cover a lot of very disparate specialties.

Now that we are seeing some examples of what the camera can do, it seems like they focused on one particular, but very large segment of the professional market – wedding and special event photographers. 

Early examples seem to show a camera that performs very, very well at higher ISOs. Not necessarily in the stratosphere, but rather significant improvements in the 1600 to 6400 range. A range that I suspect many wedding photographers find themselves needing. The autofocus improvements, of course, benefit everyone, but event and wedding photographers don't get the chance to refocus their shots, so improved autofocus would certainly be beneficial. 

At the same time, the camera is very well-equipped for ordinary studio work under controlled lighting situations. So, no compromises for studio work but more flexibility in the field. Not to mention some improvements in video for those who need to use it for that purpose as well.

Now, of course, the camera is great for other purposes as well, but it does seem to have some significant improvements that will benefit a large and very competitive segment of the professional photography market.

In short, what I am saying is that it seems as though Canon really did study their market closely and may have produced a camera that is intended to sell, rather than a camera that is intended to be popular on forum and testing sites.


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## ramon123 (Mar 29, 2012)

+1 well said


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## BobSanderson (Mar 29, 2012)

good points


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## x-vision (Mar 29, 2012)

Hmm. While Canon did listen to users and did incorporate user feedback into the 5DIII, their strategy is not brilliant. 
In fact, just the opposite.

Raising prices in the face of ever increasing completion is ... well, just dumb.

With mirrorless cameras increasing their share in the lower end of the market, the smart strategy for Canon (and Nikon) would be to move as many users as possible upmarket, where FF has a unique size advantage. 

The 5DIII should have been announced at $2600 - a symbolic lowering of the price (compared to the 5DII), designed to make a switch to FF more attractive. 

Instead, Canon raised the 5DIII price by 30%, effectively repositioning the 5DIII as a camera strictly for pros.

The problem is, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series. 

In case there are doubts about Canon’s "brilliant" pricing strategy, just consider that the 5DII could not be found in stock for more than a year after it went on sale. In contrast, just a week after the 5DIII’s general availability, it is now in stock in many retailers:
http://instock.1001noisycameras.com/canon-5d-mark-iii-pre-orders/

It is very safe to say that just a week after general availability, supply is already outstripping demand for this camera. 
Good luck to Canon as even more 5DIII’s are on their way to the stores.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Mar 29, 2012)

I do agree with you. The 5D always seems to show up quite a bit in the wedding world, and for them to target it seems about right. I do agree with all your other points, about the AF, the specific ISO fix. 

its still a wonderful camera, and it would be a wonderful one to own  though i am sure they also made it amazing enough to work with all other stuff, such as extreme sports.


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## briansquibb (Mar 29, 2012)

x-vision said:


> Instead, Canon raised the 5DIII price by 30%, effectively repositioning the 5DIII as a camera strictly for pros.



Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?

Are you assuming that only pros have sufficient money to purchase the not top of the range camera? 

In view of the fact that there are a lot of better paid professions I think that is highly unlikely - 1 of my friends with a 5DIII is a pensioner!!


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## Marsu42 (Mar 29, 2012)

unfocused said:


> In short, what I am saying is that it seems as though Canon really did study their market closely and may have produced a camera that is intended to sell, rather than a camera that is intended to be popular on forum and testing sites.


Of course the 5d3 will sell because people who got a 5d2 and expensive lenses but miss a better af cannot anywhere else (neither the "real pro" 1dx nor the aps-c 7d). And there are enough well-off amateurs that don't care about a couple of thousand bucks, so Canon could also sell a 5d3d (deluxe) with gold plated plastic and it would sell, too.

But is it enough to make people invest even more in the platform and Canon gear for the long term? Marketing might be about short term sales, but company strategy is for medium and long term shareholder value and roi, too. Canon might become the Kodak of the 21st century - legacy products that work just fine, but a lack of future outlook and technology edge.


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## briansquibb (Mar 29, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Of course the 5d3 will sell because people who got a 5d2 and expensive lenses but miss a better af cannot anywhere else (neither the "real pro" 1dx nor the aps-c 7d).



Are you saying that the af of the 5DIII is better than that of the 1DX?

I had a moring using the 5DIII and it didn't seem any better or faster than my 1D4


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## TrumpetPower! (Mar 29, 2012)

It wasn't just wedding and event photographers Canon was paying attention to. At 6 FPS with the flagship AF system, the 5DIII is good enough for pro sports.

As good as the 1DX? No, of course not -- but it's better than lots of pro / top-of-the-line cameras (especially film) that have been used to shoot the Super Bowl and the World Series in the past. For that matter, save for the framerate (which falls into the "good enough" category), it's a better sports camera than any other camera Canon has made. And if the AF is as good as it looks to be, that alone may well make up for the slightly slower framerate over the pre-1DX cameras.

I'll bet lots of newsrooms will be picking the 5DIII over the 1DX for their reporters, especially in these economic times. Certainly, those that only buy new cameras when the old ones die will be going for the 5DIII. And the readers won't ever know the difference.

Cheers,

b&


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## mistabernie (Mar 29, 2012)

x-vision said:


> Hmm. While Canon did listen to users and did incorporate user feedback into the 5DIII, their strategy is not brilliant.
> In fact, just the opposite.
> 
> Raising prices in the face of ever increasing completion is ... well, just dumb.
> ...



The 30% price boost is an inaccurate comparison. This has been discussed previously (not quite sure if it was here or not) -- this price doesn't incorporate inflation over the last few years, nor does it incorporate the fluctuation of exchange rates. The $3500 price point is pretty much in line with where the 5D2 was in 2008. 

The aim of the 5D3 is the professional photographer; Canon has a 4k Cinema camera coming out imminently for film making and dedicated videographers, even though the 5D3 still produces quite high quality video. For hobbyists and enthusiasts, the rumor mill is already kicking around rumors of an 'entry level' full frame camera that could be announced as soon as Photokina which will be what Canon uses to draw people from mirrorless cameras up to full frame.


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## V8Beast (Mar 29, 2012)

Like many other, I also with the 5DIII were priced closer to $3,000 than $3,500, but at the end of the day, I was more than willing to cough up the extra dough for its substantial improvements in AF, FPS, and build quality.

That said, I don't think Canon has showed all its cards just yet. There's been talk of an entry-level FF body for quite some time, and if it turns out to be true, the 5DIII's price point makes more sense. The fate of the 7D line is unknown at this point, either, so if Canon does axe the 7D or merge it into the xxD line, then an entry-level FF body priced somewhere between the 7D and the 5DIII makes even more sense.


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## JR (Mar 29, 2012)

@unfocused. Interesting observation sir! It also seem to align with the fact Canon seem to have decised to segment the market in several buckets and come out with a specific camera for each bucket. This is why I beleive we are seeing more model coming soon like a video specific model to sit between the C300 and the 5DmkIII for example (The famous 4k model) or the fact they will likely have a high MP model at one point.

Nikon seem to have taken a different approach with two major pro camera for all the segment (D800 and D4) where Canon might have 4-5 models in total when we are all said and done.

Will be interesting to see this one pan out!


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## awinphoto (Mar 29, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Of course the 5d3 will sell because people who got a 5d2 and expensive lenses but miss a better af cannot anywhere else (neither the "real pro" 1dx nor the aps-c 7d).
> ...



Both have the same AF module, but the 1dx has a better metering system that affects the AF performance. So the 1dx has an edge... how much of an edge, we will have to find out. But the 5d3, on paper, is supposed to be better than any previous canon camera.


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## dichiaras (Mar 29, 2012)

Pardon me the silly question, but if Canon is so smart, why the first three best seller DSLR cameras on Amazon are Nikon's? ???

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3017941/ref=pd_ts_zgc_e_3017941_more?pf_rd_p=1270018122&pf_rd_s=right-5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=507846&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0KFCV0B9Y5HVYR0KX7W2


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## x-vision (Mar 29, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?



Hehe. You seem to be missing my point ... while at the same time confirming it ;D. 

As I said in my post, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series. 
The 3 non-pros you know that bought the 5DIII are just another confirmation of that. 

The thing is, as the price increases, the ratio of pro vs non-pro buyers increases too. 

Non-pro buyers will still account for a large part of the of 5DIII sales. 
However, pro buyers will now constitute a larger percentage of the total 5DIII sales compared to the 5DII (well, until the price drops, of course).

From that perspective, Canon did reposition the 5DIII as more of a pro camera compared to the 5DII.

I guess the expression "strictly for pros" is incorrect, though. I stand corrected. 
There will be hobbyists buying the $6.8K 1DX camera and $14K 800/5.6L lens. 
So, technically, non of these products is "strictly for pros". Same for the 5DIII. 
My bad for hurting the feelings of non-pros with $3.5K of disposable income ;D ;D.


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## XanuFoto (Mar 29, 2012)

x-vision said:


> Hmm. While Canon did listen to users and did incorporate user feedback into the 5DIII, their strategy is not brilliant.
> In fact, just the opposite.
> 
> Raising prices in the face of ever increasing completion is ... well, just dumb.
> ...


They have priced a camera for the segment you are talking about. Its called the MKII


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 29, 2012)

dichiaras said:


> Pardon me the silly question, but if Canon is so smart, why the first three best seller DSLR cameras on Amazon are Nikon's?



Last month, Canon held 4 of the 5 top spots, including #1. It's unclear how Amazon ranks their sales (updated hourly doesn't mean the rankings reflect only the last hour's worth of sales), but it is clear that Canon has far more of the global dSLR market share than Nikon.


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## keithfullermusic (Mar 29, 2012)

I never thought it was a secret what Canon was doing. Clearly it makes more sense to break up the functions of the cameras from a business standpoint, especially when they share much of the same technology. Why would Canon release the perfect camera for everyone? If they did it would cost a bazillion dollars and no one would buy it. This way, they aren't as expensive, there are models for many different price brackets, and it forces people to buy multiple.

The 5Diii seems like the perfect all around event camera: great pics in low light/high iso, FF, quick, great focus system, amazing video, perfect (debatable) MP for events, etc.

If I want pics of wildlife I will take out my 50D (crop) for the extra "reach" with my lenses. And believe me that is some serious extra reach. My 100-400 is like 160-640 on the 50D!!!

If they made the 5D with a bazillion pixels I wouldn't need a crop body. I would sell it and buy the 5D. That used sale wouldn't be money for Canon and they realize that. Having different models for different uses is a great business idea, as long as they share parts and technology in order to keep costs down through economies of scale.


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## XanuFoto (Mar 29, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > In short, what I am saying is that it seems as though Canon really did study their market closely and may have produced a camera that is intended to sell, rather than a camera that is intended to be popular on forum and testing sites.
> ...


Canon might pretty much have most technology ready. They will release it when the market is ready for it.


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## XanuFoto (Mar 29, 2012)

TrumpetPower! said:


> It wasn't just wedding and event photographers Canon was paying attention to. At 6 FPS with the flagship AF system, the 5DIII is good enough for pro sports.
> 
> As good as the 1DX? No, of course not -- but it's better than lots of pro / top-of-the-line cameras (especially film) that have been used to shoot the Super Bowl and the World Series in the past. For that matter, save for the framerate (which falls into the "good enough" category), it's a better sports camera than any other camera Canon has made. And if the AF is as good as it looks to be, that alone may well make up for the slightly slower framerate over the pre-1DX cameras.
> 
> ...


+1


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## XanuFoto (Mar 29, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> Like many other, I also with the 5DIII were priced closer to $3,000 than $3,500, but at the end of the day, I was more than willing to cough up the extra dough for its substantial improvements in AF, FPS, and build quality.
> 
> That said, I don't think Canon has showed all its cards just yet. There's been talk of an entry-level FF body for quite some time, and if it turns out to be true, the 5DIII's price point makes more sense. The fate of the 7D line is unknown at this point, either, so if Canon does axe the 7D or merge it into the xxD line, then an entry-level FF body priced somewhere between the 7D and the 5DIII makes even more sense.


Nailed it.


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## nehemiah (Mar 29, 2012)

Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.

I'm a non-pro that's been posting in the BH and Amazon threads like many many others that can't currently buy this camera (I've ordered, not in stock). Obscure shops may have a couple in stock briefly, but the big retailers like BH and Amazon -- good luck. You can go right now and will have to wait 1-2 months according to their website for body-only. 

I've done pretty well in business (on a small business scale). I own a 7D, several primes, 2 L lenses, 2x583EX2's, Elinchrom 500W strobes, and now am buying the 5D3. But you know what? Still my coffee set up costs more than my photo gear put together. And as for business advice for Canon? Don't have any -- they seem to be doing great. Since all indications are that the 5D3 is better than the 5D2, it's going to be a pretty fantastic camera. 3.5K is reasonable.


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## keithfullermusic (Mar 29, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.
> 
> I'm a non-pro that's been posting in the BH and Amazon threads like many many others that can't currently buy this camera (I've ordered, not in stock). Obscure shops may have a couple in stock briefly, but the big retailers like BH and Amazon -- good luck. You can go right now and will have to wait 1-2 months according to their website for body-only.
> 
> I've done pretty well in business (on a small business scale). I own a 7D, several primes, 2 L lenses, 2x583EX2's, Elinchrom 500W strobes, and now am buying the 5D3. But you know what? Still my coffee set up costs more than my photo gear put together. And as for business advice for Canon? Don't have any -- they seem to be doing great. Since all indications are that the 5D3 is better than the 5D2, it's going to be a pretty fantastic camera. 3.5K is reasonable.



whether or not you can afford it is irrelevant. people can still understand business models without tons of cash in their pockets.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 29, 2012)

keithfullermusic said:


> whether or not you can afford it is irrelevant. people can still understand business models without tons of cash in their pockets.



True...but it can bias their viewpoint. Consider an extreme example - the cost of Vertex Pharmaceuticals' Kalydeco, a treatment for cystic fibrosis. I understand the business model which results in pricing of $300,000 for a year of drug, but if I had a child with CF I'd certainly be damn angry about it...


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## Marsu42 (Mar 29, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.



What magic insight enables you to tell if people can't afford the camera at all or just aren't willing to pay a premium for the real world photography advantages that the 5d3 offers over the 5d2 or aps-c bodies?



XanuFoto said:


> They have priced a camera for the segment you are talking about. Its called the MKII



I very much doubt that the mk2 is here to stay, it is very unusual that a clear successor would be kept along the original. Imho the 5d2 is here to dampen the 5d3 price tag and enable people to get a ff at a somewhat reasonable price until a real entry level ff body is there.


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## awinphoto (Mar 29, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> keithfullermusic said:
> 
> 
> > whether or not you can afford it is irrelevant. people can still understand business models without tons of cash in their pockets.
> ...



Fair enough but a child with cystic fibrosis NEEDS the medicine and are being gouged... No one NEEDS a 5d3... A lot of people WANT a 5d3 but there are so many options/solutions/other offerings to get by without it... in this case it's Needs vs Wants


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## briansquibb (Mar 29, 2012)

TrumpetPower! said:


> it's a better sports camera than any other camera Canon has made. And if the AF is as good as it looks to be, that alone may well make up for the slightly slower framerate over the pre-1DX cameras.



mmm - I would guess that 1D4 owners would dispute that .....


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 29, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > keithfullermusic said:
> ...



I agree with your point, but that's exactly the bias I was referring to...'_gouged_'. A business model is a business model, and many factors go into setting a price point. In this case, CF is a very small market, and the drug is only effective in 5% of patients in that already small market. R&D costs are high, and spent, and must be recovered for ROI. 

Similarly, the cost to produce a 1D X is not double that to produce a 5DIII, but the cost to the consumer is double. Or for an even more direct example, compare the D800 with the D800E - basically the same camera (in fact, they took something away rather than adding something to the -E version), but fewer expected sales means a $300 higher cost for the product. Selling price has nothing to do with production costs, but rather is a combination of market forces and, to some extent, R&D recovery - that's why pills that cost literally pennies to produce can cost hundreds of dollars for the patient.


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## awinphoto (Mar 29, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
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Good point.  I guess I was initially failing to see the correlation until you pointed it out


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## x-vision (Mar 29, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.



There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
Smart buyers hate overpaying ;D.


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## briansquibb (Mar 29, 2012)

x-vision said:


> My bad for hurting the feelings of non-pros with $3.5K of disposable income ;D ;D.



You are forgiven 8) 8) 8)


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## XanuFoto (Mar 29, 2012)

x-vision said:


> nehemiah said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.
> ...


Its overpaying when a comparable camera is available for less.


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## briansquibb (Mar 29, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > nehemiah said:
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I uess it is hard to detirmine whether one camera is comparable with other - certainly this would be difficult with a D800 and a 5DIII as they are very different


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## x-vision (Mar 29, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
> ...



It's overpaying when perceived value does not match the price tag.


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## awinphoto (Mar 29, 2012)

x-vision said:


> XanuFoto said:
> 
> 
> > x-vision said:
> ...



Sooo... one of the top AF systems out in the market, period, the highest ISO range in it's class and one of the top out in the market, period, 100 VF, weathersealing, 2 memory cards, better preformance, better metering system, more controls, better shooting systems... yeah your right... $3500 isn't a fair perceived value...


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## nehemiah (Mar 29, 2012)

x-vision said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?
> ...



The bold seems to imply that the poster is not in this category. 

My beef is not with those that can't afford the camera -- it's with those that presume to give business advice in a condescending way to Canon like they know better re: camera sales. That's quite a presumption.

Instead of implying that the MD3 is a sales failure by indicating that stores have them in stock (which is mostly not true anyway), the best way to see if the MD3 was a success for Canon would be to compare the sales to the MD2. These numbers will truly indicate which model sold better. It wouldn't surprise me to see that the MD3 sells more or at least in similar numbers to the MD 2 when you compare monthly or quarterly sales after launch.


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## awinphoto (Mar 29, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > briansquibb said:
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Also dont forget canon has been building more inventory of the 5d3 compared to the 5d2 launch, double the factories producing the 5d3 compared to the 5d2 launch, and were basically better prepared in this launch than the 5d2...


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## sarangiman (Mar 29, 2012)

Canon 5DMkII cannibalized 1Ds sales. People who still sprung for the 1D series probably wanted (1) better AF; (2) better speed; (3) better sealing.

Now Canon releases a 5DMkIII which is essentially a 5DMkII that can actually (1) focus, (2) has 6fps vs. 3.9, & (3) apparently has better weather sealing.

Essentially closing the gap between 5D & 1D series even further.

But they open up pre-orders for it before you can even pre-order a 1Dx. Probably forcing a lot of people who've been looking for an upgrade to just go with the 5DIII even if they'd initially had their eyes on a 1Dx.

That really makes me question the foresight of their marketing team.

Unless they release some reports showing the vastly better tech of the 1Dx _pronto_ (improved sensor? higher processing power to downscale 18MP to 2MP for 1080p video better using more sophisticated downsampling?), my feeling is they're going to once again have the 5DIII cannibalize 1Dx sales.

But I may be wrong.


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## psolberg (Mar 29, 2012)

It is ok but it is not worth the cost for mos mk2 owners. 3500 is too steep.


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## AmbientLight (Mar 29, 2012)

In my humble opinion Canon is doing well in terms of corporate strategy and execution. Lowering prices is often bad for business (would it be any good for yours?), so Canon trying to stick to a higher initial sales price, which is not even higher once you calculate currency effects, is just good business sense. Corporations want to earn money, not to give away new goods for less, which in my opinion would be sign of really bad business sense. Of course the trick is to set the right price for the market. If the pricing would be off, we can expect price corrections to increase sales volume, just to keep those factories occupied and to avoid stockpiling goods in warehouses, which does have a cost attached.

So for all of those who complain about $500 more or less in a camera's price, why don't you just wait? If many do feel like you, the price of the camera body will indeed come down to what you want. You only need some patience. If on the other hand there are so many people buying the camera for the initial asking price, that you are simply not part of the initial buyers group, you can still wait for eventual availability of a used camera or you can just save your money until you have sufficient funds. I don't think these are bad options. I myself am currently waiting, wondering if the price will come down. It doesn't make me question Canon's ability to perform business.

Regarding the 1Dx I believe Canon just wants to avoid errors, so they delay the launch until they feel they are ready.


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## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Mar 29, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> I own a 7D, several primes, 2 L lenses, 2x583EX2's, Elinchrom 500W strobes, and now am buying the 5D3. But you know what? Still my coffee set up costs more than my photo gear put together.


That must be one expensive coffee machine!


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## AmbientLight (Mar 29, 2012)

In my experience that is just normal. Your first investment for a new office ritually goes into a coffee machine ;D


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## awinphoto (Mar 29, 2012)

All this back and forth about canon/prices/market makes me think of a line from the mothman prophesies.. "a window-washer on skyscraper could probably predict a traffic accident below him before it happens. Does it make him smarter than the ones down below? No, it's just from a different perspective.". 

Canon, their PR, their market researchers, their engineers are probably taking a good hard look at what is happening.. sales.. general feedback.. response... Taking everything into account before releasing their 1dx, their 4K video cam, and maybe a 5dx? There is a rhyme and reason to their madness and dont think they haven't considered they haven't done their homework on similarities and contrast between the 5d3 and the 1dx... They know their target audiences, they know who they are going after, and all those who have in some way an issue with this camera, you just may not be in their "target audience". Perhaps they have another camera they have you as being a target audience, perhaps not... But let them do their thing and we'll see what this year brings.


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## prestonpalmer (Mar 29, 2012)

Agreed. As a professional wedding photographer, all I ever wanted that my 5D2 didn't have was, better ISO performance above 1600, better AF, Dual Card slot, and slightly faster frame rate, and better video features.

Canon did EXACTLY that in the 5d3. Cant wait to use it at a wedding next week.


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## nehemiah (Mar 29, 2012)

SomeGuyInNewJersey said:


> nehemiah said:
> 
> 
> > I own a 7D, several primes, 2 L lenses, 2x583EX2's, Elinchrom 500W strobes, and now am buying the 5D3. But you know what? Still my coffee set up costs more than my photo gear put together.
> ...



Actually, for coffee what is considered most important (aside from fresh beans) is the quality of the grinder. This isn't the same grinder I have but I have a similar: http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/grinders/mazzer_super_jolly_electronic

Some of the better home espresso machines will also easily cost more than the MD3.

Those are my two hobbies. I'm a coffeegeek and I like photography. Some day I hope to be good at both (I'm good at neither at the time).


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## Raddy (Mar 29, 2012)

Their best move was to make the 5D3 available to the hungry crowd before a possible entry-level FF announcement.

I still can't get it how many people did complain about the hight price of the 5D3 and how many people pre-ordered the 5D3 at the same without having seen any decent review.  
Well, hooray... That's the way we show Canon what we think of their prices!
I also got the feeling that there is also a huge number of people who picked the 5D3 as their first DSLR. 
This forum is about to collapse in case Canon really announces a nice FF DSLR (possibly even a MP beast) in the range of 2000-2500 bucks. ;D


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## awinphoto (Mar 29, 2012)

Raddy said:


> Their best move was to make the 5D3 available to the hungry crowd before a possible entry-level FF announcement.
> 
> I still can't get it how many people did complain about the hight price of the 5D3 and how many people pre-ordered the 5D3 at the same without having seen any decent review.
> Well, hooray... That's the way we show Canon what we think of their prices!
> ...



Well hooray indeed +100 haha


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## keithfullermusic (Mar 30, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> SomeGuyInNewJersey said:
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> 
> > nehemiah said:
> ...




Good lord you have some expensive hobbies.


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## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Mar 30, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> SomeGuyInNewJersey said:
> 
> 
> > nehemiah said:
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Perhaps if you drank less coffee you'd have steadier hands for your photography 
Can't say I've ever heard someone refer to themselves as a coffeegeek before... Start the brand! Combine your two loves and start shooting shots for CoffeeGeek you could get them made into T-Shirts and iPhone cases on RedBubble!
Ah... just burst my own bubble and googled it... http://coffeegeek.com/ brand is already taken I'm afraid... Ah well... the good ones usually are taken...


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## Bosman (Mar 30, 2012)

Sure id like to spend $500 or more less than i did for the 5dm3, who wouldn't. Thing is this camera is the do all camera and doing it at a pro level. The shortcomings don't exist. I could have paid $500 more just to have that focus system of the flagship 1Dx but i got way way more. My brides will love me.  Isn't that what its about?

Those complaining about price want the camera like an itch they can't scratch but if they needed the features they would find a way and sacrifice to get it. The cost too much argument is invalid with what this camera is capable of. The 5dII was not an upgrade path for me since while excellent in many ways it basically just had a diff sensor and screen and not much more. This camera however does not leave you wanting.

I do believe Canon may have done the Apple thing and piled up supplies before launch so they could have a profit unleashing when people are hot for the product, if that is the case they made a good move because a couple years ago it was hard to get a lot of things from canon without a wait, if they are smart they will have a larger pile than the vacuum of interested buyers can purchase until sales taper and are more measurable.

As far as marketing. This product reveals that they did take the input and apply it, thank you Canon, keep it up! As far as i am concerned this is the D700 alternative not the 5dm2. The D800 is totally diff so i dont believe it should be compared. Kudos to Nikon though, they blew Canon us on Isos and no one saw it coming 5 or so years ago with the d3 now they take canon on the sensors. Nikon had canon with flash and metering but maybe Canon will take that from them now with wireless transmitting flashes and new advanced metering. I wonder what the next leap will be that forces the other to rethink...


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## rlarsen (Mar 30, 2012)

So much complaining about the 5D MKlll price. Well, it's not a MK ll so why should it be priced the same.
And what about value and features ? I have a 300 F4 lens and a 300 f2.8 lens. I spent over $3,000 more for the faster lens to gain on thing, one f stop in speed and that's all. In fact the f4 has IS and the 2.8 doesn't.
For those who think the price of the new camera is too high for what they get, the MK ll is still available and at reduced prices. Everyone gets a choice and both of them are good.


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## gmrza (Mar 30, 2012)

JR said:


> @unfocused. Interesting observation sir! It also seem to align with the fact Canon seem to have decised to segment the market in several buckets and come out with a specific camera for each bucket. This is why I beleive we are seeing more model coming soon like a video specific model to sit between the C300 and the 5DmkIII for example (The famous 4k model) or the fact they will likely have a high MP model at one point.
> 
> Nikon seem to have taken a different approach with two major pro camera for all the segment (D800 and D4) where Canon might have 4-5 models in total when we are all said and done.
> 
> Will be interesting to see this one pan out!



The only people who appear to have been left out in the cold so far are wildlife shooters, through the loss of f/8 AF. That makes me wonder if Canon has a plan in that segment. - Could the 4K DSLR be coming with an APS-H sensor (cropped to Super-35 for video) and f/8 AF to satisfy the market of (wildlife) documentary makers, working in the field under adverse conditions? - That would allow them to work with a single camera for video and stills. Of course, that is total speculation!


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## unfocused (Mar 30, 2012)

gmrza said:


> JR said:
> 
> 
> > @unfocused. Interesting observation sir! It also seem to align with the fact Canon seem to have decised to segment the market in several buckets and come out with a specific camera for each bucket. This is why I beleive we are seeing more model coming soon like a video specific model to sit between the C300 and the 5DmkIII for example (The famous 4k model) or the fact they will likely have a high MP model at one point.
> ...



I think the key difference here is volume. Even small towns of less than 5,000 or so have at least one or two wedding photographers (not necessarily just weddings of course). In a city of 100,000 there might be 20-30 (maybe more). But, how many wildlife photographers are there in a similar size city? (meaning people who earn their living shooting wildlife) Probably less than one.

My original point was that Canon knew the market and developed a product that would satisfy that market. Read some of the comments on these posts from wedding photographers. They seem to be very pleased with the Mark III.

As for further differentiation...I don't know enough about either the market or the relative cost of development to venture a guess what further differentiation would be worth the investment for Canon. 

My original point was just a simple observation. There has been a lot of self-obsessed complaining on the internets from people who didn't get exactly the camera they wanted. But, from a business perspective, it sure looks like Canon figured out a need and focused in on it with laser-like precision. I admire that kind of corporate skill.


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## pwp (Mar 30, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I had a morning using the 5DIII and it didn't seem any better or faster than my 1D4



Hmmm, is the 5D3 AF as good as the 1D4 Brian? Is AF any better in very low light? The 1D4 isn't that hot in the dark. It's about the only disappointing thing about the Mk4.
I shoot 1D4 and am currently considering a 5D3. High performance AF is essential for my style of shooting.

Paul Wright


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## briansquibb (Mar 30, 2012)

pwp said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I had a morning using the 5DIII and it didn't seem any better or faster than my 1D4
> ...



I think the 5DII is better than the 1D4 in low light - and in my limited experience the 5DIII is even better. However in good light and flash there is nothing in it - although I feel the 1D4 is better at tracking moving objects.

I am shooting MotoX at the weekend, it will be interesting to compare the output from the 7D (24-105), 1Ds3 (17-40) and 1D4 (70-200). Rule 1 - dont change lens at a MotoX because of the dust.


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## pwp (Mar 30, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I am shooting MotoX at the weekend, it will be interesting to compare the output from the 7D (24-105), 1Ds3 (17-40) and 1D4 (70-200). Rule 1 - dont change lens at a MotoX because of the dust.



Not taking the 5D3 to the MotoX? If you change your mind, I'd be extremely interested in a real world report using the 5D3 for shooting action.
I'll look out for your post on Monday!

Paul Wright


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## briansquibb (Mar 30, 2012)

pwp said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I am shooting MotoX at the weekend, it will be interesting to compare the output from the 7D (24-105), 1Ds3 (17-40) and 1D4 (70-200). Rule 1 - dont change lens at a MotoX because of the dust.
> ...



I borrowed a 5DIII from a friend - gave it back 

I do so much in protrait that I need the grip/series 1. I made a decision in October to get the 1Ds3 instead of the 5DIII to sit alongside the 1D4. Looks like a good decision in hindsight - I have no loss of function and my PW all work perfectly. 

I have decided to have my 135 f/2 on the 1d4 rather than the 70-200 as it makes me less conspicuous. So the line up will be

1Ds3 + 17-40 f/4
7D +24-105 f/4
1D4 + 135 f/2

Will be at Canada Heights from 10 till 5


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## broseph (Mar 30, 2012)

I think they priced it higher to get the past generation of folks who have been using the mkii to upgrade.


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## Bosman (Apr 6, 2012)

pwp said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I had a morning using the 5DIII and it didn't seem any better or faster than my 1D4
> ...



This may help you decide since this is a thread of 1D4 users talking up the 5d3 as better in focus.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-1163659.html


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## V8Beast (Apr 7, 2012)

Bosman said:


> This may help you decide since this is a thread of 1D4 users talking up the 5d3 as better in focus.
> http://photography-on-the.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-1163659.html



Wow, those are some very impressive images in that link. I have much to learn about the 5DIII's new AF system


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## briansquibb (Apr 7, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> Bosman said:
> 
> 
> > This may help you decide since this is a thread of 1D4 users talking up the 5d3 as better in focus.
> ...



I went through the images too - I suspect the quality is down to the individual rather than the kit. 

From (only a little) experience I saw only minor differences between the AF of the 1D4 and the 5dIII. The posters only comment on th missed shots - however at 10fps they would have more good images as well. As a default I have the 1D4 on low burst speed and hardly get any missed shots.

With a 400 f/2.8 it is hard (when handholding) to keep the focus point in the right place at all times with fast moving objects - I miss quite a few even with the [email protected] but looking where the AF point is verifies it is my fault  and it is doubly hard with the 400. Taking shots at lower fps gives the human more of a chance to get the AF point in the right place.


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## V8Beast (Apr 7, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I went through the images too - I suspect the quality is down to the individual rather than the kit.



I'd have to agree. For every 1 time I blame my gear for poor results, I blame myself 99 times 

Regardless of which body has the better AF system, I'm just thrilled that the 5DIII's AF is good enough to even be compared to the 1DIV. I would have never dreamed of such a thing 3 months ago. For serious sports shooting, IMHO the 1DIV certainly has its advantages in terms of burst rate and a larger buffer.


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## Bosman (Apr 7, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> Bosman said:
> 
> 
> > This may help you decide since this is a thread of 1D4 users talking up the 5d3 as better in focus.
> ...


Sorry V8 no pics!  I have read so many posts across several forums just to educate myself and ran across that one and thought it may be helpful...


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## BobSanderson (Apr 10, 2012)

The Lacrosse pics were amazing.


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## Arepoint1947 (Aug 12, 2016)

keithfullermusic said:


> nehemiah said:
> 
> 
> > SomeGuyInNewJersey said:
> ...



I am also a coffee lover but instead of photography i love travelling. What are your other hobbies?


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## crashpc (Aug 15, 2016)

I wonder how smart are they about their M line... 
Only lenses are quite good and smart. Bodies are lacking so much :-(


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## Ozarker (Aug 15, 2016)

x-vision said:


> Hmm. While Canon did listen to users and did incorporate user feedback into the 5DIII, their strategy is not brilliant.
> In fact, just the opposite.
> 
> Raising prices in the face of ever increasing completion is ... well, just dumb.
> ...



If only Canon would hire a CEO with your vision... even as clouded as your vision seemed to be back in 2012 concerning the 5D Mark III.  : ???


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## Sharlin (Aug 15, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm. While Canon did listen to users and did incorporate user feedback into the 5DIII, their strategy is not brilliant.
> ...



If only Canon had announced something that September, I dunno, something like a $2k enthusiast/prosumer full-frame body?!!


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## aa_angus (Aug 16, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > x-vision said:
> ...



You mean like the 6D?


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## Sharlin (Aug 16, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > If only Canon had announced something that September, I dunno, something like a $2k enthusiast/prosumer full-frame body?!!
> ...



Yeah, that would have been a good name! If only... :


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