# 6D and crop feature



## paulgmccabe (Sep 13, 2012)

I saw that the Nikon D600 has a crop feature where you can move down to 10MP and get the extra reach offered by an APS-C camera.

Is it possible the 6D could be a 7D replacement that matches or exceeds the current 7D in crop mode, but also provides for a full frame mode?

I would like to stay with APS-C primarily as I do a lot of sports and wildlife photography but I would love to have FF where speed and reach or not required.

Is this too much to ask? There are some great deals on the 7D right now but I feel reluctant to pull the trigger, mainly because it's low light performance isn't that much greater than a Rebel. If I didn't have a Rebel, then buying the current 7D would be a no brainer, but as I have a Rebel there is still a significant premium to upgrade to the 7D when you factor in the low resale value of the Rebel.

It seems the only real advantages of the current 7D over the latest Rebel is the FPS and the focus system, but even there the latest Rebel has closed the gap.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 13, 2012)

paulgmccabe said:


> I saw that the Nikon D600 has a crop feature where you can move down to 10MP and get the extra reach offered by an APS-C camera.
> 
> Is it possible the 6D could be a 7D replacement that matches or exceeds the current 7D in crop mode, but also provides for a full frame mode?
> 
> ...



I don't think Canon will provide a crop mode for their FF but who knows? They might if the photogs see some importance to having one. 7D is too old already. It's due for replacement.


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## PeterJ (Sep 13, 2012)

I can see the point for video but surely a pretty minor point for stills which it sounds like you're doing? It's really just in-camera cropping so just saves a bit of card space and increases download speeds but unless I'm missing something no different to once on your PC just cropping to the same area. I do see the benefits of that, but more of a convenience than any sort of radical feature, guess it might improve the fps in that mode though.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 13, 2012)

paulgmccabe said:


> Is it possible the 6D could be a 7D replacement that matches or exceeds the current 7D in crop mode, but also provides for a full frame mode?



I don't think so, Canon has separated the two worlds quite distinctively in the past, for example ef-s lenses don't work on ff so you have to buy new gear when upgrading. I don't see why they'd change that now because I expect them to be quite happy to sell *two* camera bodies to people wanting crop reach and ff iso quality. Anyway, a crop mode imho will only make sense with a high 35-40mp body so enough resolution is left.


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## paulgmccabe (Sep 13, 2012)

Yes, that's true, and they're hardly going to come out with an entry level FF with a higher pixel count than the 5D.

My biggest reluctance with getting a 7D is only the low light performance where it badly trails behind the likes of the D7000.

In my experience Canon don't currently have anything in APS-C format that produces usable files at even iso 1600.


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## preppyak (Sep 13, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> paulgmccabe said:
> 
> 
> > Is it possible the 6D could be a 7D replacement that matches or exceeds the current 7D in crop mode, but also provides for a full frame mode?
> ...


Yep, and I can't imagine them releasing that feature in a $2000 camera, but not having it in their $3500 camera as well. While it might benefit enthusiast users more, I am sure there are a few pros that would have gladly taken the crop mode for times they had to do sports, etc.

Its a nice idea for a feature, but, with the way the mounts work, I'm just not sure I see them doing it


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## PeterJ (Sep 13, 2012)

What lenses do you use at the moment for your telephoto work? One thing to remember is apart from shallow DOF effects if you currently use faster lenses just for extra light / faster shutter speeds you might get away with longer focal lengths at slower appertures and/or extenders because of the better ISO performance. If you're already using something like a 400 f/5.6 you might be SOL though without dropping a lot of cash.


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## unfocused (Sep 13, 2012)

Feature already available. You go into Camera RAW or Photoshop and it's the little tool that looks a capital "L" with another upside down capital "L" overlapping it and it has a diagonal dotted line through it. Works great.


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## RLPhoto (Sep 13, 2012)

paulgmccabe said:


> Yes, that's true, and they're hardly going to come out with an entry level FF with a higher pixel count than the 5D.
> 
> My biggest reluctance with getting a 7D is only the low light performance where it badly trails behind the likes of the D7000.
> 
> In my experience Canon don't currently have anything in APS-C format that produces usable files at even iso 1600.



I've shot files that are usable up to 6400 on the 7D.


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## CTJohn (Sep 13, 2012)

The 7D delivers 18MP on the current sensor. 22MP cropped delivers a lot less. Wouldn't that result in less resolution in the image?


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## aznable (Sep 13, 2012)

paulgmccabe said:


> My biggest reluctance with getting a 7D is only the low light performance where it badly trails behind the likes of the D7000.



i can buy a used 1d mark 3 that cost more or less like a new 7d and blow away the nikon d7000 in high iso frame rate, autofocus, everything.

i cant see a huge difference in iq between d7000 and 7d sensor at high iso (2/3 of stop...maybe) and is AF, shutter lag, speed and so on the 7d is a better camera than d7000/d300s.


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## bvukich (Sep 13, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Feature already available. You go into Camera RAW or Photoshop and it's the little tool that looks a capital "L" with another upside down capital "L" overlapping it and it has a diagonal dotted line through it. Works great.



;D


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## brianleighty (Sep 13, 2012)

paulgmccabe said:


> I saw that the Nikon D600 has a crop feature where you can move down to 10MP and get the extra reach offered by an APS-C camera.
> 
> Is it possible the 6D could be a 7D replacement that matches or exceeds the current 7D in crop mode, but also provides for a full frame mode?
> 
> ...



I think the main reason Nikon is doing that if I understand correctly is their system can use DX lenses (the equivalent of EF-S) while Canon can't use EF-S on its full frame cameras. This could be totally wrong but I think I'm right here. It makes sense on Nikon since with a crop lens all your going to see is black or very heavy vignetting in the other area so it's a value added feature where as on Canon it just complicates things and if you really wanted that then they could offer a feature to crop the picture in camera but not while being shot. I'm curious how you know how the shot is going to be framed in that case as well through an optical view finder.


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## wickidwombat (Sep 13, 2012)

In camera cropping would be usefull if it came with a boost in FPS


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## brianleighty (Sep 14, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> In camera cropping would be usefull if it came with a boost in FPS


Good point. Hadn't thought about that. But then again I never shoot anything but raw. Speed is definitely not a huge concern to me.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 14, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > In camera cropping would be usefull if it came with a boost in FPS
> ...



For me 5 FPS is enough. I just want more DR and more IQ more than FPS.v


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## JimKarczewski (Sep 14, 2012)

Won't happen.

That' "brilliant" piece of tech to crop in camera like that is patented by Nikon..


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## brianleighty (Sep 14, 2012)

JimKarczewski said:


> Won't happen.
> 
> That' "brilliant" piece of tech to crop in camera like that is patented by Nikon..



The joys of our patent system. Take something that pretty much anybody could of thought up without stealing it from the original company, patent it and now you can sue anybody else that copies what you do. GENIUS!!!


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 14, 2012)

JimKarczewski said:


> Won't happen.
> 
> That' "brilliant" piece of tech to crop in camera like that is patented by Nikon..



that does not mean canon can not make their own patent.
or even buy it from nikon.

that is not uncommon.


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## funkboy (Sep 15, 2012)

Nope.

Canon PR has stated repeatedly "if you want reach/crop etc, do it in post; if you want smaller files use SRAW".

On an FX Nikon you can physically mount a DX lens & the body will figure out that it needs to switch to crop mode.

An EF-S lens will not physically fit on an FF canon body. Even if you cut the "mount preventer" off it's there for a reason: the shorter registration distance of EF-S would cause the mirror to whack the rear element, even on an APS-H camera. This has been hashed out here in several threads & that's the conclusion.

Without the ability to mount crop lenses, there really isn't very much reason for them to do this. It's not like the slower fps cameras are only limited by their processing speed; the shutter & mirror aren't designed to go much faster either (& don't have the duty cycle rating for the number of actuations that high-speed cameras tend to produce).

Now, a lot higher FPS would technically be possible in a camera with a fast processor & a cheap shutter when blocked open in live-view mode, but at the moment Canon's live-view AF can't keep up with more than about 4 fps (μ4/3 can though...).

For the moment, you'll have to be content with the 2 megapickle 30fps or 1 megapickle 60fps burst modes built into recent EOS cameras. I believe it's called "movie mode" <grin>.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 15, 2012)

funkboy said:


> Canon PR has stated repeatedly "if you want reach/crop etc, do it in post; if you want smaller files use SRAW".



Hard to believe if Canon produces gimmicks in-camera hdr or multishot-nr. Of course in-camera cropping would be convenient if you realize your lens doesn't have enough reach and don't want to produce trash data in the raw file that rests in peace on your hard disk. It's just that cropping from 22mp doesn't leave very much, but with a high-mp body it surely would make sense.


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## funkboy (Sep 15, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Hard to believe if Canon produces gimmicks in-camera hdr or multishot-nr. Of course in-camera cropping would be convenient if you realize your lens doesn't have enough reach and don't want to produce trash data in the raw file that rests in peace on your hard disk. It's just that cropping from 22mp doesn't leave very much, but with a high-mp body it surely would make sense.



Of course "post" has come to mean the in-camera crop tools as well. I'm specifically referring to the ability to "turn off" most of the sensor in the interest of getting more "reach" (which has been hashed out here to death) or speeding up the FPS, à la Nikon.


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## viaissimo (Sep 15, 2012)

If you compare the mount of an EF-S with an EF lens, you can see a plastic ring around the inner lens which prevents the EF-S from being mounted on a Canon FF.
Of course crop can be done in post production, but it would be quite interesting to be able to interchange lenses in both ways: If someone (like "paulgmccabe") uses primarely an APS-C-sensor camera (I guess cause of the crop for more tele), he/she still might want to have a second camera-body. So why not choose a FF!? At Nikon you wouldn't be in that urgent need to upgrade all your glasses to FF, of course loosing MPx while croping - but that's saving costs and maybe sometimes extra kilos carrying around two types of lenses.
Once again I have to admit, well done Nikon!


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## meli (Sep 15, 2012)

aznable said:


> paulgmccabe said:
> 
> 
> > My biggest reluctance with getting a 7D is only the low light performance where it badly trails behind the likes of the D7000.
> ...


Not quite correct, there is a noticeable difference sensor-wise between Canon's 18mp and that sony 16mp across the whole spectrum, more so in Pentax's implemenation.
Plus 7d & d300 have the same fps and actually 7d has the worst shutter lag of all 3 (.45 vs .54 vs .64) and despite its price its a single drive camera without spot linked meter. Having said that, i like the responsiveness of 7d's AF, the reach and the build but i've never recommended it cause there is just not a single iso setting without noise


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