# 1D Mark IV and indoor basketball question



## bdunbar79 (Jun 16, 2012)

This winter I'm going to be shooting indoor basketball for a high school in Mansfield, OH. I have a 1D Mark IV that I've used extensively for outdoor well-lit sports (track mainly). To practice, I went to an open-gym just to get an idea on focal lengths and perspectives. The trouble I had was metering. There was a door open at one end of the gym letting massive amounts of outdoor light in, with a huge blown highlight area on the floor. Ok, I can work around that. However, I had trouble metering in the gym and got quite a few over and underexposed images. What is the best way to meter for these situations, such as indoor gyms? I haven't had any trouble outside because that's easier, and controlled portrait indoor light hasn't been a problem. But there are no flashes allowed and I was wondering if there is a more robust way to meter action indoors. I've never done this before. Thanks!


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## briansquibb (Jun 16, 2012)

I would suggest spot metering and ignore the blown backgrounds if that was possible

Else this is time for M mode by taking a few sample shots before the action starts. This will give you opportunity to get the best compromise


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 17, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I would suggest spot metering and ignore the blown backgrounds if that was possible
> 
> Else this is time for M mode by taking a few sample shots before the action starts. This will give you opportunity to get the best compromise



So trial and error type thing? Maybe try something more white than gray let's say? Then snap a few shots and check the meter and histogram? Thanks.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 17, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> briansquibb said:
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> > I would suggest spot metering and ignore the blown backgrounds if that was possible
> ...


 
Thats about all you can do, cameras do not have enough DR at higher ISO's to properly expose both bright and dark areas. Even at ISO 100, DR is not able to handle it perfectly, and you are likely to be cranking up the ISO.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok, thanks guys.


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## JaxPhotoBuff (Jun 17, 2012)

I have been shooting indoor high school basketball for a couple of years now. I am curious when (what time of day) you took your practice shots. I ask because, in my experience, in Jacksonville, Florida, the games are taking place after 6:00 in the evening, in the winter time. This means that, while you can get situations where you have sun coming in some windows in the gym, creating odd lighting conditions for short period of time near sunset, the bigger issue for me has been an overall lack of light. Some of these high school gyms are seriously dark. 

I do find that using spot metering, tends to give me optimal results in those moments where there is residual daylight to worry about, so I recommend trying that and using either aperture priority or shutter priority. 

You will not have this problem because you're shooting with a 1D Mark IV, but because I shoot with a 40D (soon stepping up to the 1DX), I have had to shoot with shutter priority in order to stop the action. Aperture priority would result in too slow a shutter speed most of the time (for my camera). I cannot shoot at ISOs higher than 6400 at all, and at 6400, I get some pretty bad noise. So, with this old camera, I tend to get shots which stop the action but are under-exposed initially. Then I can boost the exposure and deal with the noise in post. As you might imagine, I am REALLY looking forward the the major improvements that will come with the 1DX.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 17, 2012)

JaxPhotoBuff said:


> I have been shooting indoor high school basketball for a couple of years now. I am curious when (what time of day) you took your practice shots. I ask because, in my experience, in Jacksonville, Florida, the games are taking place after 6:00 in the evening, in the winter time. This means that, while you can get situations where you have sun coming in some windows in the gym, creating odd lighting conditions for short period of time near sunset, the bigger issue for me has been an overall lack of light. Some of these high school gyms are seriously dark.
> 
> I do find that using spot metering, tends to give me optimal results in those moments where there is residual daylight to worry about, so I recommend trying that and using either aperture priority or shutter priority.
> 
> You will not have this problem because you're shooting with a 1D Mark IV, but because I shoot with a 40D (soon stepping up to the 1DX), I have had to shoot with shutter priority in order to stop the action. Aperture priority would result in too slow a shutter speed most of the time (for my camera). I cannot shoot at ISOs higher than 6400 at all, and at 6400, I get some pretty bad noise. So, with this old camera, I tend to get shots which stop the action but are under-exposed initially. Then I can boost the exposure and deal with the noise in post. As you might imagine, I am REALLY looking forward the the major improvements that will come with the 1DX.



I went to an OPEN GYM to practice. It's June, and it was 6pm, so there was a lot of light.

Anyways, thanks for your advice. When I go to the next one here in a few days, I am going to practice with spot metering.


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## briansquibb (Jun 17, 2012)

1D4 is fine at iso 6400 just remember to meter to the right by using ec+1


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 17, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> 1D4 is fine at iso 6400 just remember to meter to the right by using ec+1



Ok Brian, so when I meter, I'll get a correct exposure. THEN, go +1 EC after that? Or, simply meter to +1 (either way I guess)? Thanks.


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## briansquibb (Jun 17, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> briansquibb said:
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> > 1D4 is fine at iso 6400 just remember to meter to the right by using ec+1
> ...



Just set ec to +1 and take pictures as normal


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 18, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> bdunbar79 said:
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Got ya. Thanks!


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## swampler (Jun 18, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> 1D4 is fine at iso 6400 just remember to meter to the right by using ec+1


Why not just expose correctly at 3200? You'd get the same shutter speed and less noise.


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## Hillsilly (Jun 18, 2012)

If you haven't already, try changing the custom functions. Under CF IV, you have the ability to use the AF On button for focusing and the shutter button is just used for setting the exposure (and taking the photo!). This way, you can maintain focus on the subject and the camera will continually adjust the exposure depending upon how bright or dark the section of the court is. When its photo time, the camera calculates the exposure required at the time of taking the photo (and not when you first start focusing). This works well when you are dealing with constantly changing lighting.


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## photophreek (Jun 18, 2012)

Look at page 105 of the 1D IV manual. I haven't tried or tested this with my 1D IV, but it would seem that it might help with your shooting situation.


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## briansquibb (Jun 18, 2012)

photophreek said:


> Look at page 105 of the 1D IV manual. I haven't tried or tested this with my 1D IV, but it would seem that it might help with your shooting situation.



That works well with weddings/landscapes etc - but not for fast moving sport


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## Hbap085 (Jun 18, 2012)

photophreek said:


> That works well with weddings/landscapes etc - but not for fast moving sport



Hi, I am in the process currently of setting up my 7d with back focusing and all information I reference is quite the opposite. Applying AF to the AF-ON button and leaving the shutter button for only the shutter increases speed and is really aimed at sports photography. 
I found the following article on Canons website which also references back focusing and being critcal for photographing F1 racing. 
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/custom_functions_for_sports_pt1.do

Another article mentions that back focusing was first suggested to canon in the late 80's by sports photographers who wanted this feature. 
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/backbutton_af_article.shtml

A few other sites I reviewed in the last week;
http://www.kevinmullinsphotography.co.uk/for-photographers/canon-1d-mk-iv-custom-settingssports.html
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2371
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos1d_markIV_custom_functions.do


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## briansquibb (Jun 18, 2012)

Hbap085 said:


> photophreek said:
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> > That works well with weddings/landscapes etc - but not for fast moving sport
> ...



Not quite sure of the connection between multi point metering and back focussing - or have I misread something?


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 18, 2012)

Just catching up on the great information guys. Ok, I'm now familiar with the AE lock button used as focusing per the manual and I did it and can do it just fine. However, I'm a little apprehensive about this, as is Brian, because I just feel as though I'd have a tougher time with speed using another button to focus as I would the shutter and metering. My idea was to blanket meter all shots upfront with the anticipation that the gym lighting won't change throughout the game, meter to the right, and then focus and shoot away throughout the game. However, that feature is really cool!

Brian do you recomment using faux M mode with an ISO range set? Or should I just set the ISO period. Thanks.


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## briansquibb (Jun 18, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Just catching up on the great information guys. Ok, I'm now familiar with the AE lock button used as focusing per the manual and I did it and can do it just fine. However, I'm a little apprehensive about this, as is Brian, because I just feel as though I'd have a tougher time with speed using another button to focus as I would the shutter and metering. My idea was to blanket meter all shots upfront with the anticipation that the gym lighting won't change throughout the game, meter to the right, and then focus and shoot away throughout the game. However, that feature is really cool!
> 
> Brian do you recomment using faux M mode with an ISO range set? Or should I just set the ISO period. Thanks.



I personally set the AV and the minimum TV and leave the iso on auto. Basketball - 1/500th? That way you will get the iso on the minimum possible for the correct exposure


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 18, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Just catching up on the great information guys. Ok, I'm now familiar with the AE lock button used as focusing per the manual and I did it and can do it just fine. However, I'm a little apprehensive about this, as is Brian, because I just feel as though I'd have a tougher time with speed using another button to focus as I would the shutter and metering. My idea was to blanket meter all shots upfront with the anticipation that the gym lighting won't change throughout the game, meter to the right, and then focus and shoot away throughout the game. However, that feature is really cool!
> ...



Ah I got it now. Shoot in Av mode, min shutter 1/500th, auto ISO, EC +1, for example, if conditions warrant that. Since the metering on the 1D4 is done with the selected AF point. Thanks!


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## briansquibb (Jun 18, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> briansquibb said:
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## Hillsilly (Jun 19, 2012)

Hbap085 said:


> Applying AF to the AF-ON button and leaving the shutter button for only the shutter increases speed and is really aimed at sports photography. I found the following article on Canons website which also references back focusing and being critcal for photographing F1 racing.



I photograph a lot of sports and motor racing and this is what I do (although I have to use the AE button as my camera lacks a dedicated AF-On button  ). I find I'm more likely to get the right exposure this way. The only downside is that I'll sometimes pick up a camera, press the shutter button and wonder for a few seconds why its not focusing.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 19, 2012)

Hillsilly said:


> Hbap085 said:
> 
> 
> > Applying AF to the AF-ON button and leaving the shutter button for only the shutter increases speed and is really aimed at sports photography. I found the following article on Canons website which also references back focusing and being critcal for photographing F1 racing.
> ...



Everyone has their own preferences. However this doesn't make sense with a 1D Mk IV b/c the camera here will meter through the active autofocus point, so you might as well focus, meter, and take the picture with one button vs. 2.


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## briansquibb (Jun 19, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Hillsilly said:
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Use Servo mode and keep the button half pressed for constant metering and focus


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 19, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> bdunbar79 said:
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Isn't that just fantastic?  Camera is far more powerful with min shutter speed/auto ISO and metering through active focus point than I imagined when I purchased it.


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## briansquibb (Jun 19, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Isn't that just fantastic?  Camera is far more powerful with min shutter speed/auto ISO and metering through active focus point than I imagined when I purchased it.



It is a lot better than the 5DIII in many ways - particularly sports and wild life

The other great thing is moving the fous point around in the middle of the action - that took me some time to master but is well worth the effort


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 26, 2012)

Set Safety Shift - Enable, ISO
Av = 6.3
ISO = Auto
Enable Shutter speed range,
Min 500
Max 8000

Worked fantastic. Wish the 5D III had this feature. Thanks for the great tip.


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## briansquibb (Jun 26, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Set Safety Shift - Enable, ISO
> Av = 6.3
> ISO = Auto
> Enable Shutter speed range,
> ...



The 1D4 is a great camera that has many advanced features that are not obvious from the spec sheet. Until you start shooting with one the gap between a 1 series and the rest is not obvious that difference is very significant.

Other features worth exploring is the constant AF and setting the low speed continuous to 6fps (or whatever suits you). I find I get more keepers this way - but I am shooting slower, more predictable animals.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 26, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> bdunbar79 said:
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> > Set Safety Shift - Enable, ISO
> ...



I have a ton of games I can practice this with, so yes, I plan on getting creative  It's amazing how much detail and color saturation this camera has, even despite the bad press about the APS-H sensor it received (16mp too). I don't see a difference. I cropped quite a ways and with a bit of NR, looked just as smooth as the 5D Mk III.


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## briansquibb (Jun 26, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> briansquibb said:
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Strange that the APS-H shooter love it and the others just seem to dislike it

Still I have 2 1.6 crop, 2 ff and 1 APS-H bodies - but the 1D4 is the best general purpose of them all

Plus of course the 35mm film and a APS film cameras


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