# Logical upgrade path after M6 Mark II



## Fallingtitan (Dec 27, 2022)

Hello fellas, 

I heard the M6 line is going away, so what would be a best next step.

I use my mark II for 4K video and macro video for content creation. Love the camera but wish it's low light performance was better.

What camera body should I be looking into? On youtube it seems everyone says Sony is the best for low light. I put my F stop really high to get all details in a 3D manner when doing macro's so I was wondering if Canon makes a camera that competes well.


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## Jethro (Dec 27, 2022)

Well, it's possible (we'll see pre-February according to the latest rumour) that a new R model (the R8) will be announced 'with a new form factor' that may be a video/vlogging replacement for the M6. Hopefully with some complementary lenses. Exciting times.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 27, 2022)

Low light performance is primarily driven by sensor size, so if you want less noise at a given ISO you should be looking at a FF camera. 

You can see that here, where the Canon R6II and Sony a7RV have basically the same DR (and thus the same noise floor), which are better than those same cameras in crop mode, the latter performing similar to the M6II.


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## Kit. (Dec 27, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Low light performance is primarily driven by sensor size, so if you want less noise at a given ISO you should be looking at a FF camera.


For deep DoF macro _video_ role, the lens entrance pupil size is the decisive factor in both DoF and noise with the given object illumination. The sensor size is practically irrelevant as long as the lens can achieve the required DoF.

If one wants to have less noise in this case, they should add more light to the scene.

If it were not video, but stills, focus stacking could help.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 28, 2022)

Kit. said:


> For deep DoF macro _video_ role, the lens entrance pupil size is the decisive factor in both DoF and noise with the given object illumination.


Given the OP stops down for deeper DoF, adding light to the subject would yield the greatest IQ benefit by enabling lower ISOs to be used. I assume that’s not possible for the OP. I also assume shutter speed is relatively fast because of the relationship to video fps. 

The entrance pupil determines the amount of light that reaches the image plane. The sensor size determines how much of that light is collected for the image being captured. Image noise is inversely proportional to the total amount of light collected. A FF sensor will collect more light than an APS-C sensor, because the former samples a larger area of the image plane (obviously, I’m assuming the image circle diameter is not limiting). Collecting more light means less noise in the image.


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## Kit. (Dec 28, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> The entrance pupil determines the amount of light that reaches the image plane. The sensor size determines how much of that light is collected for the image being captured.


Given _the same field of view (and the scene exposure, of course), _the entrance pupil (its absolute dimensions) determines both the _total_ amount of light that reaches the sensor and the resulting DoF. The sensor size (with its light gathering ability) and the focal length of the lens (with its light diluting ability) cancel each other.

It becomes quite obvious once you consider that the lens can only focus the light rays that pass through its entrance pupil.


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## Fallingtitan (Dec 28, 2022)

Jethro said:


> Well, it's possible (we'll see pre-February according to the latest rumour) that a new R model (the R8) will be announced 'with a new form factor' that may be a video/vlogging replacement for the M6. Hopefully with some complementary lenses. Exciting times.



Ok I'll look into the future R8 for sure. I shoot watches and I do inject a ton of light but its difficult I do gymnastics basically while moving the camera and holding the light to avoid reflections. 

Someone told me sony had a back light for the sensor to help with higher f-stops? is this true? Like an internal light that shines on the sensor from the inside of the camera body? or is that not a real thing?

btw I read the responses thanks guys for all the helpful posts.


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## Jethro (Dec 28, 2022)

Fallingtitan said:


> Ok I'll look into the future R8 for sure. I shoot watches and I do inject a ton of light but its difficult I do gymnastics basically while moving the camera and holding the light to avoid reflections.
> 
> Someone told me sony had a back light for the sensor to help with higher f-stops? is this true? Like an internal light that shines on the sensor from the inside of the camera body? or is that not a real thing?


Have a look at the main thread (on the front page) on the rumoured R8 - it includes quite a bit of discussion (by those more knowledgable than myself) around back-side illuminated (BSI) and stacked (not the same thing) sensors, and includes some comparisons between Canon and Sony (and Fuji!) bodies. In terms of capturing more light, I have to agree with neuroanatomist above, that the best way to go may be via a FF sensor.


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## koenkooi (Dec 28, 2022)

Fallingtitan said:


> Hello fellas,
> 
> I heard the M6 line is going away, so what would be a best next step.
> 
> ...


Do you have any examples online of your macro videos? I’ve been slowly trying to shoot video in between stills of macro subjects and it has proven to be challenging, both the basic video aspect and it being macro.


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## Fallingtitan (Dec 28, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> Do you have any examples online of your macro videos? I’ve been slowly trying to shoot video in between stills of macro subjects and it has proven to be challenging, both the basic video aspect and it being macro.


Yes here I make youtube vids about watches.


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## koenkooi (Dec 28, 2022)

Fallingtitan said:


> Yes here I make youtube vids about watches.


Amusingly this video popped up in my recommended videos a few weeks ago  Nice work on the macro shots!


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## Jethro (Dec 29, 2022)

Fallingtitan said:


> Yes here I make youtube vids about watches.


I now get what you mean about gymnastics in the moving shots, and I can imagine the lighting issues! Great clips.


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## Fallingtitan (Dec 29, 2022)

Jethro said:


> I now get what you mean about gymnastics in the moving shots, and I can imagine the lighting issues! Great clips.


haha yeah some shots are very hard to do.


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## Fallingtitan (Dec 29, 2022)

Do you think learning to shoot Clog will improve the visuals???


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## Jethro (Dec 29, 2022)

Video is not my specialty - but I'm sure others here can help.


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## koenkooi (Dec 29, 2022)

Fallingtitan said:


> Do you think learning to shoot Clog will improve the visuals???


With my nearly non-existent video experience: When using CLOG3 with the Cinema Gamut colourspace and the LUT from Canon, the footage takes a longer time to start looking horrible when I use the colour board in FCPX 
Log gives you more headroom in post, but it's no substitute for proper exposure and lighting during filming. With all the metal and glass you're working with, it will likely help with controlling the highlights.


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