# Canon 4K Camera Makes an Appearance



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 26, 2015)

```
The long rumored small 4K camera we’ve been talking about from Canon appears to have shown up in China before its launch for NAB 2015 in Las Vegas next month. This definitely looks to be Canon’s foray into the drone market.</p>
<p>Jackie Chan also makes an appearance alongside the new camera.</p>
<p>SPECIFICATIONS (Updated in bold)</p>
<ul>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">1″ CMOS Sensor</span></li>
<li class="p1"><strong>Removable grip</strong></li>
<li class="p1">58mm filter</li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">Built-in Wi-Fi</span></li>
<li>External Viewfinder</li>
<li>Canon 10X optical zoom 8.9-89mm f/2.8-5.6 4k video fixed lens (35mm Equi. 24-240mm)</li>
</ul>

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<p>Source: [<a href="http://photorumors.com/2015/03/25/is-this-the-new-4k-canon-video-camera/" target="_blank">PhotoRumors</a>]</p>
```


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## pwp (Mar 26, 2015)

Interesting but certainly no GH4 beater

-pw


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## Chaitanya (Mar 26, 2015)

is that the same 1" sensor used on Panasonic FZ1000? if so then its a good sensor and performance should be really good for stills as well.


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## youngjediboy (Mar 26, 2015)

It looks like a toy/consumer camera...

The only thing I liked about those pictures are Jackie Chan.


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## aclectasis (Mar 26, 2015)

Incoming: Only cheap 4k camera from Canon.

Price: $3000


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## Bennymiata (Mar 26, 2015)

I reckon it uses the Sony 1" sensor from the GX7.

Could be pretty good too.


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## tat3406 (Mar 26, 2015)

From the China news, this camera just a concept, so maybe the final product may be little different. This camera only will only introduce in May according the Canon presenter.


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## slinksterone (Mar 26, 2015)

If the camera has a Detachable grip, dual pixel AF and C-log, instand buy! A nice little cinema camera, I hope.


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## funkboy (Mar 26, 2015)




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## expatinasia (Mar 26, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> The long rumored small 4K camera



Small?! It is not really what I would call small. Hardly surprising Jackie Chan is there. I have never seen so many high end cameras as in places like Hong Kong etc. A lot of disposable income and they love the latest gadgets. And, certain movie stars!


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## leGreve (Mar 26, 2015)

1" sensor??!?!

This will be a competitor for NOTHING.

Except of course if they have made a sensor that has incredible dynamic range so it would make the sky look blocky or whiteout.


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## tat3406 (Mar 26, 2015)

expatinasia said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The long rumored small 4K camera
> ...



This is small compare to eos cinema line.


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## zenja27 (Mar 26, 2015)

Some ugly camera :-\


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## expatinasia (Mar 26, 2015)

tat3406 said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Well yes, of course. It is small compared to a lot of things. But it's not really "small" is it.

Is that how Canon describe it?


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## dolina (Mar 26, 2015)

Obviously Photoshopped.


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## mskrystalmeth (Mar 26, 2015)

It looks cheap. Clunky. By the time Canon and Nikon truly gets serious about 4k...the other camera makers will be at 6K and 8K.


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## Etienne (Mar 26, 2015)

This will be a competitor to the Sony PXW-X70 (a very nice little camera), which has 1" sensor, 4K (coming through upgrade), and a similar but possibly better (f/2.8 - 4) lens. Don't think it will appeal to the same market as GH4, it is a light-weight ENG camera


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## ajay (Mar 26, 2015)

As usual, Canon misses the boat on this one by incorporating a fixed lens rather than interchangeable. I'm sure their internal reasoning is not to compete with their higher-end line of video cameras, but in the long run they are shooting themselves in the foot...over and over again. 

Disappointed. I'll stick with my GH4 and metabones adapter so I can use my Canon lenses.


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## Quackator (Mar 26, 2015)

I'd say: Let's wait for the price tag.

Maybe the real surprise is yet to come.


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## zim (Mar 26, 2015)

dolina said:


> Obviously Photoshopped.



Wot Jackie Chan wasn't really there?


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## zim (Mar 26, 2015)

The add-on EVF looks like something they could do for the M3


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## tjc320 (Mar 26, 2015)

This camera will work great as:


A prosumer video camera
A professional C camera
A documentary B camera
Aerial Video

I won't bother comparing it to the GH4 until I see the video quality out of it. We might even see slow motion out of this little thing. *Although, I really think this camera would shine for documentary work. *


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## mackguyver (Mar 26, 2015)

If it's good enough for Jackie, it's good enough for me ;D. 

Will wait for more details before making any further judgement...


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## bsbeamer (Mar 26, 2015)

mskrystalmeth said:


> It looks cheap. Clunky. By the time Canon and Nikon truly gets serious about 4k...the other camera makers will be at 6K and 8K.



Some of them, like the RED Epic Dragon are already at 6K. I would imagine 8K isn't too far away from reality.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 26, 2015)

zim said:


> The add-on EVF looks like something they could do for the M3



Or they could just run with the EVF-DC1

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/product-accessories/powershot-digital-camera-accessories/tripods-other-powershot-accessories/electronic-viewfinder-evf-dc1?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=Google_Product_Feed&cm_mmc=GA-_-Camera_Accessories-_-G_Canon_Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-34704


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## bereninga (Mar 26, 2015)

People complained about Canon's lack of interest in 4K and now that they're finally showing it, people complain. Ah, typical Canonite behavior! Anyway, I won't comment much till I hear reviews and/or see more about this. I'm excited to see what it's about, but I won't be needing 4K video yet until I can get a computer that can actually process/store that amount data.


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## gsealy (Mar 26, 2015)

ajay said:


> As usual, Canon misses the boat on this one by incorporating a fixed lens rather than interchangeable. I'm sure their internal reasoning is not to compete with their higher-end line of video cameras, but in the long run they are shooting themselves in the foot...over and over again.
> 
> Disappointed. I'll stick with my GH4 and metabones adapter so I can use my Canon lenses.



This is the rumored camcorder style of camera. The Canon camcorders have fixed lens.


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## gsealy (Mar 26, 2015)

bsbeamer said:


> mskrystalmeth said:
> 
> 
> > It looks cheap. Clunky. By the time Canon and Nikon truly gets serious about 4k...the other camera makers will be at 6K and 8K.
> ...



It might be reality, but it would have very limited use.


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## zim (Mar 26, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > The add-on EVF looks like something they could do for the M3
> ...



Ah cool didn't know that existed


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## mkabi (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm not prepared to defend Canon for this...

What I don't get is the body looks like it can support an aps-c sensor and they just had to add an EF mount to it.


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## OMD (Mar 26, 2015)

bereninga said:


> People complained about Canon's lack of interest in 4K and now that they're finally showing it, people complain. Ah, typical Canonite behavior! Anyway, I won't comment much till I hear reviews and/or see more about this. I'm excited to see what it's about, but I won't be needing 4K video yet until I can get a computer that can actually process/store that amount data.



For dof it's equivalent to f7.6-f15.2. I think that's a valid reason for being disappointed. They could have a much faster lens in this camera. It looks bigger than the RX10, yet the RX10 manages to have a constant f2.8 (and I wouldn't be surprised if the RX20 has an even faster lens). Sorry, but this lens is a joke. Canon is terrified of making a camera that might in some small way take away from their much more expensive cinema line.


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## Etienne (Mar 26, 2015)

mkabi said:


> I'm not prepared to defend Canon for this...
> 
> What I don't get is the body looks like it can support an aps-c sensor and they just had to add an EF mount to it.



I agree ... EF mount would have been good, but then that's the slightly larger C100.
I think they just need to go to town and pump up the C100 for a mkIII ASAP.


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## Tugela (Mar 26, 2015)

tjc320 said:


> This camera will work great as:
> 
> 
> A prosumer video camera
> ...



There are comparable form HD cameras from Sony and others, and to the best of my knowledge those have never been used for "documentary work", so why would this one be?

This camera is not going to compete with the GH4/NX1/A7s.


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## Tugela (Mar 26, 2015)

mkabi said:


> I'm not prepared to defend Canon for this...
> 
> What I don't get is the body looks like it can support an aps-c sensor and they just had to add an EF mount to it.



But Canon marketing department have consulted their panel of squirrels, and determined that the market has no need of cameras like the GH4, NX1 and A7s. Instead, what the market really needs are supersized point and shoots. After all, their DSLRs are twice as big as they need to be, so it follows that the real reason that the point and shoot market is tanking is because the cameras are too petite. They need to bulk up to compete! Or so the squirrels say.


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## SPG (Mar 26, 2015)

Worst. comments. ever.


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## Lee Jay (Mar 26, 2015)

Way too big for consumer quad copters.

And if it's for flying on small platforms like medium to large hex and octocopters, why doesn't the lens say it's got Image Stabilization? Even IS isn't enough for these relatively twitchy platforms, but every little bit helps.


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 26, 2015)

Puzzling. If Canon thinks this is going to be a quad-copter alternative, they missed. The ideal would be more of a cube for aerodynamics, lightweight, APS-C for smaller lens bulk and a global shutter to eliminate jello effects. 
The ideal quad-copter camera would have adjustable shutter speeds, f stops, and the ability to go full manual with exposure variations controlled by Auto-ISO. When shooting for movies, you don't want the f stop constantly changing the depth of field or getting a constantly changing "wagon wheel" effect. I've shot video since 1983 and there is nothing better that a built in ND filter wheel or a dial that changes the shutter speed instantly when needed.


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## Etienne (Mar 26, 2015)

SPG said:


> Worst. comments. ever.



Too afraid to contribute so you just come here to troll ?


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## TeT (Mar 26, 2015)

It looks smaller than the SL1 + EFS 15 85


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## pwp (Mar 26, 2015)

ajay said:


> As usual, Canon misses the boat on this one by incorporating a fixed lens rather than interchangeable.
> Disappointed. I'll stick with my GH4 and metabones adapter so I can use my Canon lenses.


+1 Precisely. The fixed lens decision makes it a non-starter for just about all videographers. It might work in a $500-600 pricepoint. The option to use a staggeringly wide range of glass with the GH4 has huge appeal. For some this is access to vintage lenses or to lenses already in their kit, Nikon or Canon.

Like you, I'll stick with my GH4 and metabones adapter so I can use my Canon lenses.

But something in my bones tells me this is just a huge fabrication. I hope so.

-pw


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## andrewflo (Mar 27, 2015)

This thing doesn't look like my cup of tea... but at least Canon is finally stepping into 4K territory (besides the C500 and 1DC).

I'm sure Canon's consideration of 4K in the 5DIV will be at least slightly influenced by their success (or lack thereof) with this camera.

But if the above is true, I kind of worry they'll decide "the market didn't want 4K" because they're strange little camera didn't sell. Kind of like how "the US doesn't want mirrorless" because the $800 original EOS M didn't sell.

We'll see


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## Etienne (Mar 27, 2015)

andrewflo said:


> This thing doesn't look like my cup of tea... but at least Canon is finally stepping into 4K territory (besides the C500 and 1DC).
> 
> I'm sure Canon's consideration of 4K in the 5DIV will be at least slightly influenced by their success (or lack thereof) with this camera.
> 
> ...



It's good to have one do-it-all ready to go video camera in your bag. I would have been interested in this a year ago, but I have the Sony PXW-X70 for that and I don't want two similar cameras. The 5D3 has to get replaced soon, and I was hoping for a bigger upgrade with the C100 mark II, so I'm waiting to see what Canon does with C300. Sony has been going gang busters with the A7's and FS7, and JVC and Panasonic have some great camcorders out. Canon has to do something to convince, because I've got a wandering eye now.


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## mkabi (Mar 27, 2015)

OMD said:


> For dof it's equivalent to f7.6-f15.2. I think that's a valid reason for being disappointed. They could have a much faster lens in this camera. It looks bigger than the RX10, yet the RX10 manages to have a constant f2.8 (and I wouldn't be surprised if the RX20 has an even faster lens). Sorry, but this lens is a joke. Canon is terrified of making a camera that might in some small way take away from their much more expensive cinema line.



I have to agree, if it is the same sensor as the G7X. What the heck? At least create a similar or better lens thats on the G7X, which has f/1.8-2.8 (actual 4.8 to 7.6). 

I don't know if I agree about taking away from their much more expensive cinema line though. Most of them needed an external recorder to do 4K (except for the 1d-c), and the C100/C100 II doesn't even do 4K externally. Most of them are super 35mm (except for the 1d-c), which is essentially APS-C. *What I see is a lot overlap.* Can I justify purchasing a C100? When a 70D is a fifth of the cost? And, you can buy all the external add-ons for another grand or 2 and it will still be cheaper than the C100???
C100 II comes with 60fps, so does the 7DII, but the 7DII is a third of the cost of a C100II.

So who is the C100/C100 II appealing to? People that don't want to add-on, just grab and go?

I don't know... but one thing is for sure... even though there is a lot of overlap, 4K isn't in every Canon camera and only available in their most expensive ones.

May be Canon doesn't have the tech.? Or think that not enough people would even use 4K?
Its nice to have, but not useful all the damn time...???


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## Etienne (Mar 27, 2015)

mkabi said:


> OMD said:
> 
> 
> > For dof it's equivalent to f7.6-f15.2. I think that's a valid reason for being disappointed. They could have a much faster lens in this camera. It looks bigger than the RX10, yet the RX10 manages to have a constant f2.8 (and I wouldn't be surprised if the RX20 has an even faster lens). Sorry, but this lens is a joke. Canon is terrified of making a camera that might in some small way take away from their much more expensive cinema line.
> ...



70D isn't the issue. There's already a world of difference between a 70D and C100, even after you add the best add-ons available to the 70D. The problem is that the C100 feature set is looking pedestrian with it's AVCHD codec and top trick of 60p. The competition at the C100 price and a bit above is getting very stiff, and the market expectation is soaring to 4K, 120fps or more, 10 bit or better. NOBODY wants to feel like they are buying into obsolete technology. The Sony FS7 is only a few grand more, and is loaded to the gills. Panasonic and JVC are offering big stuff at decent prices. I want to see Canon win, but, they've got to earn it.


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## coldsweat (Mar 27, 2015)

I still don't understand the Canon obsession with creating video cameras with a fundamentally DSLR form factor - is it just so the photographers who started to dabble in a bit of video since the 5D2 came out feel at home?


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## Ebrahim Saadawi (Mar 27, 2015)

Okay, so let's make a subjective analysis of this concept from a video shooter's perspective: 

The Good:

Canon clearly saw an affection for using small handheld DSLR-type bodies for video production, they saw that in their 5DII, 7D, 550D days up until now where manufacturers are making such designs and being successful in the video area (GH4,A7s,NX1). 

However there were a few frustrations with the DSLR design when used for video: 

These frustrations were mainly: lack of EVF, reliance on small fixed LCD for focus, lack of focus and exposure assist features, and lack of the video desirable upward rotatable handgrip, and the overall main design of having too many stills-oriented buttons that have no function. 

All of these aspects seem to be adressed in this new body. 

The design is lovely, that's my opinion as a video shooter. 

There were other frustration with DSLRs for video that are not body-related: mainly the lack of sharpness (line-skipping) and severe aliasing/moire, both of which we don't know whether they've been fixed or not, but at 4K resolution they probably are. 

That's the good: they took a 7D/5D and eliminated all the video-related nuisances. 

-The bad, 

Choice of sensor size and lens. 

Video shooters put up with all the previously mentioned quirks for two reasons: 35mm depth of field, film look, and ability to change lenses. So Canon fixed the design quirks BUT removed the actual main attractions of the system as well! 

-The choice of 1" sensor size will drive away most film/movie/cinema shooters who want the s35 (APS-C) standard to give the desired film-look.

Some of them would have put up with this issue by using fast lenses, or speed boosters and such but, 

-They take it even farther and give it a fixed lens, one with very deep depthof field (F/7 to F/11 equ.) so the camera will have a ''video'' camcorder aesthetic with deep DOF.

These two decisions will drive a huge number of video shooters away, those who shoot ''beauty, films, movies, music videos, etc'' 

So that's the bad, the choice of sensor size and lens speed (fixed)

Now: Where it fits, who will make use of this combination

Those who shoot video, as in documentary, news, events, weddings, TV programs, and such, 

this camera will be a dream-come-true for that type of video market as a small, well designed, video featured body, with a single all purpose 24-300mm lens, YET with still a reatively large sensor, 1'' is the sweet spot here as it offers easy usable AF, aesthetic, yet with better lowlight performance and shallower DOF than normal video cameras. 

Conclusion: it will work for a specific market, ''video shooters'' but not for me, not for people who use FF/S35 sensors and interchangeable lenses, filmmakers in general, so it's not a successor or an attraction to the previous 5D/7D DSLR video shooter, not a competitor for the 5D, C100, C300, GH4, NX1, A7s, FS100, FS700, FS7 type of user. But more like a competitor for the Sony rx10, AX100, x70, Panasonic FZ1000, XC1000, and to every traditional small-sensor small camcorder designed for ''video'' work including Canon's own XA100. In other words, not a very exciting punch. This is not a cinema camera. So not for me.


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## cream (Mar 27, 2015)

While we wait for the official announcement at NAB we will learn more, I agree with Ebrahim. This camera, may very fit very well in the run in gun, uncontrolled live event market.

Until the dual pixel technology came out, the DSLR's had some BIG draw backs and I can simplify that by saying you can only pull focus so many time in the name of creative expression until - the conclusion is that you can't keep up with the event.

IMO its has to come to market under $2k.


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## WorkonSunday (Mar 27, 2015)

interesting, why not just use the existing EVF since it has a hot shoe. much more effective from business point of view.


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## bsbeamer (Mar 27, 2015)

Well put by Ebrahim. 

If this suddenly had an EF, EF-S, or EF-M frame mount then I think many video people would feel differently about this (probable) upcoming camera, but as it's currently designed, it does not meet my needs for a 4K camera purchase.

Just for perspective, the JVC GY-HM170 is a 4K fixed lens camera selling for about $2000. The Panasonic HC-X1000K is about $3000-$3500, and the Sony FDR-AX1 is about $4500. These are videographer-style tools, not really budget film-style tools. I know the features do not match up (especially sensor), but I see this camera competing more with these at the typical Canon prices. Maybe it will be the 4K replacement to either the XA20 or XF305?


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## Ebrahim Saadawi (Mar 27, 2015)

The G1x and Eos m3 EVF is not suitable for a highend video camera, it's nearly impossible to get accurate focus pulling on that display. I am glad they didn't go that way.

The EVF here if you notice protudes to cover/obscure most of the LCD screen on the back, so it probably won't be an actual electronic EVF, but a loup that turns the LCD into an EVF, like the Zucoto LCDVF (which on old Canon DSLRs gave a great EVF replacement). So the quality of the EVF will probably depend on the LCD quality and optics inside the loup. The optical loup way is obviously cheaper than going to the G1x EVF, and it's a better solution too in my opinion as long as it's as good the Zucoto+5DLCD experience (it's probably better too, look at that screen)


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## Markintosh (Mar 27, 2015)

zim said:


> The add-on EVF looks like something they could do for the M3



M3 has add-on EVF )


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## lsman38 (Mar 27, 2015)

I doubt its smart for Canon to relate with Jacky Chan - the most hated actor in China on internet.


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## RobD (Mar 27, 2015)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> Okay, so let's make a subjective analysis of this concept from a video shooter's perspective:
> 
> Those who shoot video, as in documentary, news, events, weddings, TV programs, and such,
> 
> this camera will be a dream-come-true for that type of video market as a small, well designed, video featured body, with a single all purpose 24-300mm lens, YET with still a reatively large sensor, 1'' is the sweet spot here as it offers easy usable AF, aesthetic, yet with better lowlight performance and shallower DOF than normal video cameras.



I don't know if you've kept up with modern cinematic wedding videography, but there has been a huge shift to large sensor cameras in recent years. This would not cut it for anyone shooting higher end work. Maybe as a cover-your-arse cam in bright conditions, but weddings are frequently very dark. A DSLR, M43 or C series camera is much more useful. 

In the big "wedding cinema" facebook group, this has received a lot of hate. The lens and sensor are just not up to our needs. The industry has really fallen out of love with Canon, even though it is still what most of us shoot with (C100, 5D3 being the most popular choices). If it wasn't for their lenses they would be in trouble. And the fact that their cameras, although lacking in features, are really nice to use and the colours are wonderful  And so we continue to grumble, and continue to shoot Canon!


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## SPG (Mar 27, 2015)

Etienne said:


> SPG said:
> 
> 
> > Worst. comments. ever.
> ...


Hardly. It just got me that in three pages of people taking personal offense at this camera even existing as a concept _"How dare Canon make something that isn't exactly what I want! How dare they!_ there was hardly one real point about how this camera might perform in the real world or it's possible use. 
Granted, this camera doesn't look like it's right for me, but neither do the vast majority of Canon printers or photocopiers. It's a little ridiculous to get upset when Canon releases consumer products for consumers. IF Canon has scrapped it's entire DSLR line for this, then yeah...you might have a case to get upset about but that's simply not what this is.


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## Tugela (Mar 27, 2015)

cream said:


> While we wait for the official announcement at NAB we will learn more, I agree with Ebrahim. This camera, may very fit very well in the run in gun, uncontrolled live event market.
> 
> Until the dual pixel technology came out, the DSLR's had some BIG draw backs and I can simplify that by saying you can only pull focus so many time in the name of creative expression until - the conclusion is that you can't keep up with the event.
> 
> IMO its has to come to market under $2k.



Except that there are already better solutions for that on the market.

When it comes to video, there is no such thing as a DSLR, all cameras are MILCs. The only distinction between true MILCs from Sony/Panasonic/Samsung and Canon's offerings is the sub-standard video offered on Canon cameras.


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## Tugela (Mar 27, 2015)

SPG said:


> Etienne said:
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It is not so much a case of it not being what "we" want, it is more a case of it being the sort of camera that no one has been asking for. That is why it is being seen as an ugly duckling. Maybe it turn out to be a great camera, but this is Canon we are talking about and their track record in delivering innovation is not exactly industry leading, so we know what to *expect*.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Mar 27, 2015)

RobD said:


> Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, so let's make a subjective analysis of this concept from a video shooter's perspective:
> ...



This. I use to bash on the C100 cause I was an idiot. Although expensive, the C100 Mark II is just about the perfect wedding/documentary camera. This new 1" sounds good for dads who want to film their sons' football or baseball games. I doubt it'll get any professional use.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 27, 2015)

SPG said:


> ... three pages of people taking personal offense at this camera even existing as a concept _"How dare Canon make something that isn't exactly what I want! How dare they!_



If you like, I can point you to some threads with 20-30 or more pages of that. 

Many people here can't seem to grasp that they aren't Canon's target market for every product, and even when they are, their wants/needs aren't necessarily representative of the majority.


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## Etienne (Mar 27, 2015)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> RobD said:
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I take it you really love the C100 mkII. I am considering getting one in spite of it seeming to be only a minor update. It looks like a very user-friendly practical camera and it would pair very well with my 5D3 system. But the C300 is soon to appear, and the Sony FS7 seems a whole lot more Camera for a little more money, but then I'd have to use adapters or trade all my lenses.

I do documentary work and I'm using a 5D3 system for low light / shallow DOF and a Sony PXW-X70 for general purpose / fast response. The Sony FS7 / A7s combo is not much more than the 5D3 / C100 combo, but looks like it might perform a lot better. There's a lot of new stuff coming out, and I may end up just adding a 70D (for the dual pixel AF) and waiting another year to decide what to change.


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## Don Haines (Mar 28, 2015)

SPG said:


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Agreed!

I find it amazing how people pass judgement on a camera with no knowledge of it's specs and features.... All they need is a rumour about a prototype and they are ready to castrate the designers..... 

An if it is a product that they aren't going to use, the venom just drips.....

and no matter what it is, someone will use it as proof that Canon never innovates because it does not address the aspect that they are concerned with....

sigh.....


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 28, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> SPG said:
> 
> 
> > ... three pages of people taking personal offense at this camera even existing as a concept _"How dare Canon make something that isn't exactly what I want! How dare they!_
> ...



canon could put a 5D sensor in the 5D4 and it would sell and you'd say look! Canon is awesome! It sells so they obviously delivered just what Canon users wanted. How wonderful. :


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## bsbeamer (Mar 28, 2015)

Etienne said:


> I do documentary work and I'm using a 5D3 system for low light / shallow DOF and a Sony PXW-X70 for general purpose / fast response. The Sony FS7 / A7s combo is not much more than the 5D3 / C100 combo, but looks like it might perform a lot better. There's a lot of new stuff coming out, and I may end up just adding a 70D (for the dual pixel AF) and waiting another year to decide what to change.



The 70D is really good bang for buck. Paired with the 18-135 IS STM, it's a pretty good system with dual pixel AF. As long as you're ok with dual sound (when needed), this is not a terrible decision by any means.


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## Tugela (Mar 28, 2015)

bsbeamer said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > I do documentary work and I'm using a 5D3 system for low light / shallow DOF and a Sony PXW-X70 for general purpose / fast response. The Sony FS7 / A7s combo is not much more than the 5D3 / C100 combo, but looks like it might perform a lot better. There's a lot of new stuff coming out, and I may end up just adding a 70D (for the dual pixel AF) and waiting another year to decide what to change.
> ...



You also have to be OK with substandard IQ.

Best bang for the buck comes from Panasonic/Sony/Samsung, not Canon.


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## Etienne (Mar 28, 2015)

Tugela said:


> bsbeamer said:
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70D has the only AF system that can reliably focus on a face unattended during video. This is very helpful when doing interviews without a crew. Also I have 8 Canon lenses that are immediately useful on a 70D. Switching systems is a big deal, but I can probably add a 70D on sale for less than $800.


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## Lee Jay (Mar 28, 2015)

Etienne said:


> 70D has the only AF system that can reliably focus on a face unattended during video.



7DII does as well.


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## Etienne (Mar 28, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> Etienne said:
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> 
> > 70D has the only AF system that can reliably focus on a face unattended during video.
> ...



True, but the video is about the same for a much higher price, and it doesn't have a swivel screen


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## Lee Jay (Mar 28, 2015)

Etienne said:


> Lee Jay said:
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The video is a little better - sharper and less prone to moire.


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## Etienne (Mar 28, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> Etienne said:
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Haven't seen any reviews making that claim yet.


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## Lee Jay (Mar 28, 2015)

Etienne said:


> Lee Jay said:
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Watch the first 20 seconds of this and look at the brick building in the distance.

https://vimeo.com/106524090


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## Etienne (Mar 28, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> Etienne said:
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That's a lot of moire. Wouldn't be a problem for interviews though. I wouldn't buy a 70D as a main camera, or a 7DII for that matter, but it may be a cheap way to get a third camera going on a face.


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## andrewflo (Mar 29, 2015)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> Video shooters put up with all the previously mentioned quirks for two reasons: 35mm depth of field, film look, and ability to change lenses. So Canon fixed the design quirks BUT removed the actual main attractions of the system as well!



I couldn't agree with this more. Nicely put.


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## Etienne (Mar 29, 2015)

andrewflo said:


> Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> 
> 
> > Video shooters put up with all the previously mentioned quirks for two reasons: 35mm depth of field, film look, and ability to change lenses. So Canon fixed the design quirks BUT removed the actual main attractions of the system as well!
> ...



It entirely depends on what you are trying to do. This camera may well fit the same important niche as the Sony PXW-X70, and other small ENG cameras. In fact many in news and even documentary work are avoiding shallow DOF for reasons you can read about here: http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2015/03/27/from-the-panasonic-hpx-250-to-the-new-ikegami-4k-23-system-camera-an-interesting-coincidence/


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## Tugela (Mar 29, 2015)

Etienne said:


> Tugela said:
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> > bsbeamer said:
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Which explains why everyone uses a 70D to shoot video......oh wait....they don't....in fact almost no one uses it. Except those who bought it as a stills camera and don't see a need for getting a capable video camera on the assumption that whatever they have is good enough.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 29, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > 70D has the only AF system that can reliably focus on a face unattended during video. This is very helpful when doing interviews without a crew.
> ...



Excuse me, but how would you know?

Maybe it's that journalists on a basic wage who don't get a full crew but have to handle video clips & stills themselves don't find the time to post on an "L lenses only" enthusiast forum like CR? Same goes for Joe Sixpack users who consider a dslr like a 70d the pinnacle of their photography needs (feature- and money-wise) and are very happy shooting some clips of their family w/o announcing how "pro" the feel.


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## Lee Jay (Mar 29, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Etienne said:
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I know a professional crew that shoots music videos with one.


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## cream (Mar 29, 2015)

I remember starting out in the business and one of my first cameras was a Canon GL1. At that time, that camera was impressive at its price point and there was a lot less choices to choose from.

Today pretty much any camera system will get the job done, allowing for a variety of budgets. Ultimately one should be reminded that its the content that is most important.

We know Canon is slow to market with new technologies, my biggest frustration is that that are coming to market at a price point that is not competitive to the other technologies being offered.


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## Etienne (Mar 29, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Etienne said:
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You certainly know how to miss the point. Even GoPro has it's uses, and cell-phones  .... of course no one uses those either :


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## Don Haines (Mar 29, 2015)

Etienne said:


> Tugela said:
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goPro footage has been in a couple of Hollywood movies... Apparently movie stars have a hard time running with an iMax camera duct taped to their heads  everything has its time and place...


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## Ebrahim Saadawi (Mar 30, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> Tugela said:
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They actually do, many video professionals use the 70D. I mean MANY. It's because of the Canon video DSLR reputation (60D successor) and because it's the only large sensor video camera with usable AF, that's until the 7D mkII came out (which has no aliasing, better lowlight, but removes the touch-to-focus and swivle LCD.

Anyway, having the DPAF technology only the 70D (which has bad video quality vs the rest) is a frustrating situation. Give me a good video image with DPAF damn it!

They tried doing that by coupling dpaf with the C100/300 but, they made it only work in a center focus point, 90% useless compared to the real ground-breaking DPAF concept in the MUCH cheaper 70D... Weird isn't it? no, it's Canon


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## Etienne (Mar 30, 2015)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> Lee Jay said:
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I Agree with the C100 mk II issue. If it had full sensor DPAF, I would buy it for sure. This would give me enormous relief when trying to conduct an interview without a cameraman! People who scoff at AF for video are out to lunch and have never had to work alone, or with a stabilizer rig


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