# someone had to do it...5dmk4 vs z7 size comparison...



## Romz26 (Aug 22, 2018)

I noticed no one compared the nikon z7 to the 5d in size. I grabbed a pictures online from the same websites, opened up fusion 360, calibrated the sensor size(only point of reference that should be the same), and lined them up. Looks to me the mount is smaller then the canon ef mount! 

This is in no way scientific just a noob with fusion 360 playing around(i design stuff to 3d print).

If I did this correctly I wonder if a medium format sensor can really fit in there! 


dang that camera is small!


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## Sharlin (Aug 22, 2018)

What's this talk about fitting a medium-format sensor? No way one would fit in there, and even if it did, no way that mount could fit a lens with an image circle large enough to fill such a sensor. Especially given that the register distance is so short.


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## Romz26 (Aug 23, 2018)

slclick said:


> Your fingers must be orange for these new bodies.



not really, perfectly happy with my 7d, and i dont shoot video, so all the video specs wont help take the picture


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## Ozarker (Aug 23, 2018)

Small body and the F1/F2 buttons are probably right where my fingers would be trying to hang on. Please, Canon. Don't do such things.


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## Durf (Aug 23, 2018)

LOL, all these mirrorless cameras remind me and are like high tech novelty items that used to come in a cereal box!

If I was a Nikon shooter there's no way I'd want this little thing over my 810 or 850! I wouldn't even care about all the cool tricks it could perform!

All this mirrorless hyper rhetoric and sensationalism is highly over-rated in my opinion....


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## dak723 (Aug 23, 2018)

Durf said:


> All this mirrorless hyper rhetoric and sensationalism is highly over-rated in my opinion....



Absolutely right! (And I am an owner of 2 mirrorless cameras and 0 DSLRs and well aware of mirrorless's shortcomings.) They do a few things better than DSLRs and do a few things worse. Most camera buyers won't know or care if there is a mirror or not in their camera. As is usually the case in today's world, the internet and social media are dominated by those pushing agendas with little (or no) regard for honesty. We live in a BS world now and forums like this do nothing but encourage it.


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## brad-man (Aug 23, 2018)

dak723 said:


> Absolutely right! (And I am an owner of 2 mirrorless cameras and 0 DSLRs and well aware of mirrorless's shortcomings.) They do a few things better than DSLRs and do a few things worse. Most camera buyers won't know or care if there is a mirror or not in their camera. As is usually the case in today's world, the internet and social media are dominated by those pushing agendas with little (or no) regard for honesty. *We live in a BS world now and forums like this do nothing but encourage it.*


You know this is a RUMOR site, right? We live and breathe BS...


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## Durf (Aug 23, 2018)

dak723 said:


> Absolutely right! (And I am an owner of 2 mirrorless cameras and 0 DSLRs and well aware of mirrorless's shortcomings.) They do a few things better than DSLRs and do a few things worse. Most camera buyers won't know or care if there is a mirror or not in their camera. As is usually the case in today's world, the internet and social media are dominated by those pushing agendas with little (or no) regard for honesty. We live in a BS world now and forums like this do nothing but encourage it.



Even before digital cameras I always liked the bigger style film cameras....these small mirror-less digital cameras now days so many are hyper ventilating about don't interest me a bit....

It is a pain in the arse lugging around a large DSLR kit but when it comes to actual use, they are the tools for me that I prefer.....


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 23, 2018)

Durf said:


> Even before digital cameras I always liked the bigger style film cameras....these small mirror-less digital cameras now days so many are hyper ventilating about don't interest me a bit....
> 
> It is a pain in the arse lugging around a large DSLR kit but when it comes to actual use, they are the tools for me that I prefer.....


 A lot of people on this forum can't emrbrce change or the future. This is not a novelty. As hybrid shooting and gimbal work is evolving. Having smaller cameras with high quality is a big convenience for pros. I get many jobs that ask me to shoot video and photos. I do both if they cant afford for me to get a dedicated video guy. I would love to have a 5d iv quality or higher mirrorless. I would be easier on my body. Also IBIS is a great feature. I did a wedding with my 5d iv ( i left my c100 home) with a 24-70 and it was shakey as hell. my friend with the 70-200 on my 5dsr had way less shaking and more usable footage. Basically technology doing what technology does, make life easier and more convenient.


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## Mikehit (Aug 23, 2018)

RayValdez360 said:


> A lot of people on this forum can't emrbrce change or the future.



How many times is this pointless comment going to be trotted out? Everyone knows that mirrorless will grow in market share - quote me someone who said otherwise. Everyone accepts the virtues of video - show ma quote that says otherwise.
The whole discussion is about the relative importance of these features to the mass market and Canon have to do to maintain eminence in the imaging world. 
EVF is not yet up to the standards of opticla VF as a way of looking at the scene you want to capture - whether you think the differences are important is personal preference. 
EVF has its advantages WYSIWYG, peaking etc) - whether you think those outweigh the EVF disadvantages is personal preference
Mirrorless has the capacity for a smaller system but whether you like a smaller body with big lens is personal preference 
And a host of others....

And it is the collective of all the 'personal preferences' that any manufacturer has to take into account.


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## Durf (Aug 23, 2018)

RayValdez360 said:


> A lot of people on this forum can't emrbrce change or the future. This is not a novelty. As hybrid shooting and gimbal work is evolving. Having smaller cameras with high quality is a big convenience for pros. I get many jobs that ask me to shoot video and photos. I do both if they cant afford for me to get a dedicated video guy. I would love to have a 5d iv quality or higher mirrorless. I would be easier on my body. Also IBIS is a great feature. I did a wedding with my 5d iv ( i left my c100 home) with a 24-70 and it was shakey as hell. my friend with the 70-200 on my 5dsr had way less shaking and more usable footage. Basically technology doing what technology does, make life easier and more convenient.


 I totally embrace change and the future, just not this change. Why would I use a camera that feels too small and uncomfortable with my large hands? It makes no sense for me to do this just because others tell me its the future and mirrorless is the way to go.....especially when the gear I have works just fine for me.
If it works for you that's great, have at it and happy shooting


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 23, 2018)

Durf said:


> I totally embrace change and the future, just not this change. Why would I use a camera that feels too small and uncomfortable with my large hands? It makes no sense for me to do this just because others tell me its the future and mirrorless is the way to go.....especially when the gear I have works just fine for me.
> If it works for you that's great, have at it and happy shooting


 As you can see nikon made the grip better than Sony, so there is room for improvement for being comfortable. YEs I am glad it works for you, it works for me too but this is beyond you and me. I would rather have an easier time doing what i do and that is what the future should bring. Work smarter not harder. There are probably a bunch of film shooters still left with the same mentality as you.


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## Durf (Aug 23, 2018)

RayValdez360 said:


> As you can see nikon made the grip better than Sony, so there is room for improvement for being comfortable. YEs I am glad it works for you, it works for me too but this is beyond you and me. I would rather have an easier time doing what i do and that is what the future should bring. Work smarter not harder. There are probably a bunch of film shooters still left with the same mentality as you.



Yes, I'm a bit old school and been around for a while, and love the sound of the slap of a mirror when I take a picture!

As for my mentality, well, that's why I love photography so much.....it's good therapy and much cheaper than paying a psychiatrist.


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## fullstop (Aug 23, 2018)

Romz26 said:


> dang that camera is small!



Size matters. No matter what Canon Defense Leaguers may say. 

Of course mirrorfree cameras can be built way more compact than mirrorslpapper with mirrors, submirrors, prisms and all sorts of 19/20th century mechanical shenaningans. 

That said: to me Nikon Z6/Z7 and lenses are still too large. Looking for something even more compact. A 35/1.8 or 50/1.8 must be way more compact. ANd a lot less expensive. If they want me to consider purchase.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 23, 2018)

fullstop said:


> Size matters. No matter what Canon Defense Leaguers may say.
> 
> Of course mirrorfree cameras can be built way more compact than mirrorslpapper with mirrors, submirrors, prisms and all sorts of 19/20th century mechanical shenaningans.
> 
> That said: to me Nikon Z6/Z7 and lenses are still too large. Looking for something even more compact. A 35/1.8 or 50/1.8 must be way more compact. ANd a lot less expensive. If they want me to consider purchase.



Size does matter. 

That's the quandary. European and US users by far prefer larger sizes while Asian users prefer smaller sizes. Of course, there are people in both areas with differing opinions, so it leaves Camera makers stuck. Provide a large model, a small model, or a in-between size that neither really likes.

The size is also lens related, if you are a pro using large lenses, a large body tends to help with overall balance, while a small consumer lens balances better on a small body.

Canon may be the only camera manufacturer who has enough users in both camps such that they can produce a large and small body both. That costs more, of course.


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## fullstop (Aug 23, 2018)

No.European prefer as compact as possible. Only US wants everything Texas size.


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## Kit. (Aug 23, 2018)

fullstop said:


> No.European prefer as compact as possible.


Otherwise their cameras won't fit within their living spaces.

Japanese have it even harder.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 23, 2018)

fullstop said:


> No.European prefer as compact as possible. Only US wants everything Texas size.


I was merely referring to a comment I read by a Canon executive based on their research. What research can you point to that is better than what Canon has? It is true that more Americas users prefer DSLR's than Europe.

The attached pdf shows more mirrorless (small) cameras shipped to Asia than Europe and USA combined, but even in Asia, DSLR's outsell mirrorless. In Japan, Mirrorless are almost at the halfway point.


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## Aglet (Aug 23, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> ..
> EVF is not yet up to the standards of opticla VF as a way of looking at the scene you want to capture - whether you think the differences are important is personal preference.
> EVF has its advantages WYSIWYG, peaking etc) - whether you think those outweigh the EVF disadvantages is personal preference



That is true, there are tradeoffs.
There are also a couple shortcomings of OVFs too.
Overall I'm finding EVFs provide me more useful functionality than OVFs in almost every situation. So much so I don't even notice any drawbacks to using EVF any more .. unless I'm trying to use one of my old Fujis at night with no light source in the scene.




> Mirrorless has the capacity for a smaller system but whether you like a smaller body with big lens is personal preference



The sizing options are not all that dissimilar to putting a big heavy FF zoom on a small crop body SLR. You can make any system somewhat unbalanced with the right combination.

I have comfortably large MFT bodies like the Oly EM1 (w or w-o battery grip) which handle nicely with larger pro series lenses (which are considerably smaller and lighter than comparable FF glass for equivalent FL) and still doesn't feel too bad with small primes.

OTOH, I have small MFT bodies like the Oly EM10s that are very light and compact yet just large enough to not feel cramped when using them. They work well with the small light kit zooms and mid-range primes.

The Pen series, w-o EVF, combined with pancake lenses are smaller still... TOO small for my liking but some people do like them.

So I don't think there's any hard argument against ML systems being physically too large or small. They've become diversified enough to cover quite a range of body and lens sizes so how you choose to combine them is really not much different from DSLR and lens selections.
Nothing's quite as big as a 1DX tho! That lines up well with an 800/5.6 lens which would probably tear the mount right off a Rebel body if you tried to carry it by the grip. LOL

That said, I do find Sony's ML FF bodies a bit too small to feel comfortable with a large lens on them but ... that's Sony. They made all their bodies about the same, physically, so didn't leave buyers with much choice vs all the other ML mfrs who produce a variety of designs.


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## fullstop (Aug 24, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I was merely referring to a comment I read by a Canon executive based on their research. What research can you point to that is better than what Canon has? It is true that more Americas users prefer DSLR's than Europe.
> 
> The attached pdf shows more mirrorless (small) cameras shipped to Asia than Europe and USA combined, but even in Asia, DSLR's outsell mirrorless. In Japan, Mirrorless are almost at the halfway point.




all statistics just show "current status". While "real" they are vastly skewed due to the supply situation up to now: mirrorslappers galore from multiple makers, at any pricepoint. but only very limited mirrorfree suppy: FF only Sony. APS-C: only expensive Fuji all-in, Canon only limited offering, but improving since M5/6, 50;, Sony neglecting APS-C (no recent A5000/6000 cameras, mixed bag of E-mount lenses), nothing at all from Nikon, mFT stalling.

would there be proper mirrorfree systems - bodies and lenses - available, not only hi-end pricing but also "entry level", those statistics would look very different. mirrorslappers would then likely already be less than 1/3 of ILC sales globally.

i know, "only speculation", but we shall see how quickly mirrorslapping will disappear once all makers - including heavyweights Canon and Nikon - offer a decent range of mirrorfree systems with APS-C and FF sensors.


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## Mikehit (Aug 24, 2018)

fullstop said:


> i know, "only speculation", but we shall see how quickly mirrorslapping will disappear once all makers



While you come up with some good points it is use of provocative words like 'disappear' that I think is the main issue. Personally I think you do it deliberately to irritate people, but there is always the chance it does not mean what you think it means.


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## fullstop (Aug 24, 2018)

No, I don't want to deliberately irritate others, I just write what i think and dont give a rat's ass whether or not it might irritate others. Political correctness is and always will be an alien concept to me. Some of the irritation may also be an unintended side-effect of my "teutonic use" of English [as a second language for me]. 

I remain convinced that mirrorslpappers will literally disappear quite soon, once decent mirrorfree products are in good supply from all brands.

What irritates me is "fan-boyish/pre-emptive apologizing imaging gear maker's shortcomings, including obvious and blatant product nerfing marketing diferentiation" instead of always taking a firm customer perspective and pushing for/demanding maximum bang for our hard-earned bucks.


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## Treyarnon (Aug 24, 2018)

Romz26 said:


> I noticed no one compared the nikon z7 to the 5d in size. I grabbed a pictures online from the same websites, opened up fusion 360, calibrated the sensor size(only point of reference that should be the same), and lined them up. Looks to me the mount is smaller then the canon ef mount!
> 
> This is in no way scientific just a noob with fusion 360 playing around(i design stuff to 3d print).
> 
> ...




I read somewhere that the Nikon Z mount is 55mm internal diameter. The Canon EOS mount is 54mm.


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