# Review of 5DIV from a bird photographer



## Mikehit (Dec 11, 2016)

This is probably the review of the 5DIV I have been waiting for, from Arash Hazeghi who produces some stunning work of raptors. For those not familiar with his work photography is his hobby and his personal standards are way, way higher than I could ever dream of and more than a lot of professionals who sell their work.

http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/eos-5d-mark-iv-field-review/

The choice between this and the 1Dx (Mark 1) becomes very tricky...


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## Click (Dec 11, 2016)

Excellent review. Thanks for the link.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks, Mikehit. I've been very interested in the same. I remember attending a workshop with Arthur Morris where he and others were grumbling about the 5DIII's not delivering enough power to the big white AF systems. A big white is still a dream for me, but I'm sorry to learn this is still an issue, as the cost, and more difficult to overcome, the size of the 1DX II, are too much for me--because I do like a camera that is flexible.

But the more I use the 5DIV, the more I appreciate the jump in keepers from a much improved AF system, plus significantly better IQ up to ISO 5000 (beyond which, to my eyes, it's a toss-up with the 5DIII). And there are many little convenience features in the menus and controls which improve working with the camera.

I'm hoping to get out soon with my 100-400mm + 1.4x to some wetlands and finally see how the 5DIV performs.


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## AlanF (Dec 11, 2016)

I read this review 3 months ago. He is more than amateur hobbyist - he sells guidebooks and personal advice. I once asked a question on his blog and received the reply:" If you are interested I can help you figure out and solve your problem through private consulting.", which is a reasonable reply from a professional. He does sell his work - http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/Prints/ He seems to specialise in birds in flight, and the 1DX II is superior to the 5DIV in this area. But, the 5DIV and 5DS R are better for more static situations and the 5DIV is more than adequate for most BIF.


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## Sabaki (Dec 11, 2016)

Is it just me or do some of his shots look less than sharp?


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## AlanF (Dec 11, 2016)

Sabaki said:


> Is it just me or do some of his shots look less than sharp?



He's technically superb. He puts great store on fast shutter speeds and pushes up iso when needs be. That might lead to some softening on noise reduction.


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## Mikehit (Dec 12, 2016)

AlanF - it is interesting you say you read the review 3 months ago because he posted it only today (it certainly as not there because I have been looking for it, even yesterday), and his comment on Birdphotogrpahers says the same thing. Odd. 
I know he makes money from his photography but I was meaning more that he still has a day job and does bird photography in his spare time. 

Regards birds in flight, I need to basically decide how seriously I want to get into it and be honest to myself about my skill level - what is the point of a whizz-bang AF if I can't keep the AF point on the little critter!


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## Fatalv (Dec 12, 2016)

I'm surprised the digital pitchforks haven't been grabbed over the 7 stop push on the landscape shot 

Joking aside, it was an interesting read as someone contemplating current options or holding off on this iteration of upgrades.


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## hbr (Dec 12, 2016)

> Mikehit
> Regards birds in flight, I need to basically decide how seriously I want to get into it and be honest to myself about my skill level - what is the point of a whizz-bang AF if I can't keep the AF point on the little critter!



I don't own the 5D Mk IV but he claims the AF is much improved over the Mk III. I do own the 7D Mk II which is the same or slightly better than the 5D Mk III, (I don't own that one either). I don't have to keep the focus point on the critter. All I have to do is get it in focus once and the camera's AF does the rest.


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## Ryananthony (Dec 12, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> AlanF - it is interesting you say you read the review 3 months ago because he posted it only today (it certainly as not there because I have been looking for it, even yesterday), and his comment on Birdphotogrpahers says the same thing. Odd.
> I know he makes money from his photography but I was meaning more that he still has a day job and does bird photography in his spare time.
> 
> Regards birds in flight, I need to basically decide how seriously I want to get into it and be honest to myself about my skill level - what is the point of a whizz-bang AF if I can't keep the AF point on the little critter!



Haha you will gain the skill of following a subject. It's nicer to grow into a camera, then grow out of it. 

What do you shoot with now? I had a 5d3 first, and then purchased a used 1dx. For myself, I prefer everything about the 1dx over the 5d3 except for 1 thing, and thats MP. it is for sure noticeable going from 22 to 18, but having the 12 frames has been worth it more of the time. I only noticed now, when shooting with the 1dx, I can pull a burst of 4 or 5 shots before a bird goes out of reach and with the 5d3 possibly only having 2 or 3 shots, it really makes a difference in keepers. 

I was/am interested in purchasing a 5dsr, and have recently watched some YouTube videos about the amount of cropping power that camera can have. For the time, I can't afford aNY big whites, but I can probably swing a refurbished 5dsr. I think that will come in handy when a subject is static and I am focal length limited. 

In my opinion f8 focusing at all points is great, but if you are stuck shooting with a 150-600, like myself, you won't be using it anyway. I think I would prefer 50mp at 5 fps over 30 at 7.

My appologies, I'm rambling.


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## JMZawodny (Dec 12, 2016)

Pay $55 to find out what he really thinks!


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## Mikehit (Dec 12, 2016)

Ryananthony - I am currently shooting with a 7D2 which has the same pixel density as the 5DSR, though from what I have seen the image quality from the 5DSR does show an improvement in noise handling. 
I also have the 100-400MkII and with the 1.4x extender taking it to f8 the 7D2 will still work for static subjects but does hunt a bit so it should also work with the 150-600: with the resolution of the 5DSR maybe cropping will give a better image quality than the tc, but on those occasions you really need it, 5DSR+tc gives even more reach. 

One reason I am looking at the 5DIV/1Dx is the image quality at ISO 3200-6400 and although the 5DSR is appealing because of the resolution it is at these higher ISOs it offers less room for improvement over the 7D2. Priorities, eh?


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## Mikehit (Dec 12, 2016)

Fatalv said:


> I'm surprised the digital pitchforks haven't been grabbed over the 7 stop push on the landscape shot



At the time of posting the link, I thought it would be churlish of me to point that out ;D


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> AlanF - it is interesting you say you read the review 3 months ago because he posted it only today (it certainly as not there because I have been looking for it, even yesterday), and his comment on Birdphotogrpahers says the same thing. Odd.
> I know he makes money from his photography but I was meaning more that he still has a day job and does bird photography in his spare time.
> 
> Regards birds in flight, I need to basically decide how seriously I want to get into it and be honest to myself about my skill level - what is the point of a whizz-bang AF if I can't keep the AF point on the little critter!



First, I remembered reading it about then, secondly, I checked before making that comment. He posted it on the net on 15 Sept 2016 - see the screenshot.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2016)

Ryananthony
Art Morris is one pf the the highest profile bird photographers, and Ari is one of his sidekicks. Art doesn't do much BIF and his gear at the moment seems primarily to be the 5DIV and 5DS R, often with the 100-400mm II - see
www.birdsasart-blog.com/

Ari specialises in BIF and uses the 1DX2. BIF is only a couple of % of what I do and so it makes more sense for me to use a 5DS R or 5DIV. Since buying the 5DS R, I don't use the 7DII as the the IQ and noise on the 5DS R are significantly better. Regarding the 5DIV vs 5DS R, I find the noise up to 6400, which is twice my maximum anyway, is comparable. I also find that my 400mm DO II with 1.4xTC on the 5DS R at f.5.6 has the same IQ as the 400 + 2xTC at f/8 on the 5DIV. My technique is not good enough to handle 800mm f/8 on the 5DS R.

I haven't had enough opportunities with BIF to compare the 5DS R at 560mm with the 5DIV at 800mm.


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## Mikehit (Dec 12, 2016)

We'll have to agree to disagree on how old his review is (or whether he has updated a previous 'first look'?). 

Art Morris apparently sold his 5DSRs to buy 2 5DIVs (a lot of his recent posts are pre-prepared historical ones while he is away in South America) which sorta surprised me considering a lot of his work is in good light in Florida etc where ISO is less of an issue. But I do get the feeling sometimes Art goes hot-and-cold on cameras very easily and dives into the 'the new best thing'. 

You said you can get he same image 5DSR/1.4tx as 5DIV/2xtc - so I presume you are cropping to the same FOV. 
Is this the case all the way to ISO 3200? 
Have your compared 5DSR/1.4tc with 5DIV/1.4tc and cropped both to the same FOV as the 2xtc?

This wildlife photography has so many variables that it seems a law all unto itself :-\


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree on how old his review is (or whether he has updated a previous 'first look'?).
> 
> Art Morris apparently sold his 5DSRs to buy 2 5DIVs (a lot of his recent posts are pre-prepared historical ones while he is away in South America) which sorta surprised me considering a lot of his work is in good light in Florida etc where ISO is less of an issue. But I do get the feeling sometimes Art goes hot-and-cold on cameras very easily and dives into the 'the new best thing'.
> 
> ...



Yes, I am cropping to the same FOV. I didn't go up to iso 3200. Remember the 560mm on the 5DS R with the 1.4xTC is at f/5.6 and 800mm is at f/8, so you have an extra stop for the 5DS R. In practice there are the same number of photons on each cropped image.
Yes to the second as well.


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## Mikehit (Dec 12, 2016)

Thank you, Alan.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2016)

According to linked in:
"Award-winning wildlife photographer, member of Canon USA professional network. Internationally recognized avian photographer with focus on avian-in-flight high-speed photography based on hand-hold super-telephoto technique."

Mine would be:
"Non-award-winning wildlife photographer, member of Canon UK professional network because of purchasing too much gear. Internationally recognized avian photographer for out-of-focus avian-in-flight low-speed photography based on poor hand-hold super-telephoto technique."

Mind you, he has had 4 jobs in five years since his PhD while it's taken me nearly fifty years to reach 4 - my technique is clearly 10x slower.


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## Mikehit (Dec 12, 2016)

;D

You and me both....


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## arbitrage (Dec 12, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree on how old his review is (or whether he has updated a previous 'first look'?).
> 
> Art Morris apparently sold his 5DSRs to buy 2 5DIVs (a lot of his recent posts are pre-prepared historical ones while he is away in South America) which sorta surprised me considering a lot of his work is in good light in Florida etc where ISO is less of an issue. But I do get the feeling sometimes Art goes hot-and-cold on cameras very easily and dives into the 'the new best thing'.
> 
> ...



I think it is pretty obvious why AM dives into the newest thing each time.....B&H $$$ for linked purchases. I was really surprised how fast he dropped the 7D2 after singing its praises for a year and then how fast he dumped the 5DSR after calling it the best camera ever. He spent so many blog posts showing how he loved the 50MPs and then quickly turned around and harped on the better ISO of the 5D4 and is now fine with just 30MP....go figure....oh maybe because the demand for new 5DSRs has dropped to a trickle with readily available used copies and the 5D4 is the only camera people are forced to buy new now!!

Even though his type of photography (rarely BIF) doesn't require the 1DXII for anything, he continues to try and make some use of it and post about it because it also isn't readily available used. 

I don't mind people making $ but I believe some of AM's tactics are a bit suspect.

In regards to Arash, I don't have any problem with him selling his guides to DPP4 and Bird photography. I have both and they are well written and contain good info. He still puts out his detailed reviews on cameras and lenses that he uses and doesn't jump on any bandwagons to sell gear through B&H. If you look at his reviews over the past few years they are only on gear he loves. He is against the 7D2, against the 5DSR and really only supports the 1 series. This 5D4 review is the most positive one I've seen from him on a non-1 series camera. I think this review is the best out there on the 5D4.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2016)

arbitrage said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > We'll have to agree to disagree on how old his review is (or whether he has updated a previous 'first look'?).
> ...



All very true. 
It's strange about the dating of the Arash review. I was careful to write that I had seen it on the net, rather than on his blog. Looking at the exifs of downloaded images, it appears that the first are from mid September, the date given on the review, and the more recent birds from late November. So, I think I saw some of the key comments on another forum, and he has finished it off now.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 12, 2016)

arbitrage said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > We'll have to agree to disagree on how old his review is (or whether he has updated a previous 'first look'?).
> ...



Please list two or three review sites that don't make their money by links (click-through). This is a pervasive problem.

As for the mention of Arthur Morris buying two 5DIV's, while I'm finding the camera to be a very strong upgrade to the 5DIII, I believe Arthur Morris is still sponsored by Canon, a longtime "Explorer of Light," and doesn't have to pay for his Canon gear. I might be wrong, but that's how things stood when I attended his workshop several years ago.

And if it is true that the 1DX can better power a big white's AF system, surely a bird photographer would favor the 1DX.

Some pretty bizarre responses to what seemed to me a balanced review from the perspective of a bird photographer. Guess I'm naïve!


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> And if it is true that the 1DX can better power a big white's AF system, surely a bird photographer would favor the 1DX.



Depends on what the bird photographer mainly does: 5D IV = better resolution; 1DX II = better focussing speed with TCs. A mainly BIF photographer favours the latter, a mainly perched bird photographer the former. Also, the 1DX II is significantly heavier. It's not a "surely" situation, there is a rational choice to be made with pros and cons.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 12, 2016)

AlanF said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > And if it is true that the 1DX can better power a big white's AF system, surely a bird photographer would favor the 1DX.
> ...



Good point, "surely" was too broad. You clarified. Thanks!


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## reef58 (Jan 6, 2017)

I enjoyed the review and thought it was well balanced.


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