# Is $650+ too much for a 6hr (one day) Lightroom session?



## scottsdaleriots (Nov 29, 2011)

Reason I ask is because there's a Lightroom (6 hour) short course running on Saturday from a well-known and respected educational insitution. I've already completed 4 photography-based short courses before and am currently (almost finished) two more photography short courses. ALL the short courses I've done have been _over $600 each_ which certainly adds up (6x$600-$650=NEW body and 2 lenses). I'm also doing a photography course next year (not a short course, goes or 3yrs).

*But the man running this short course is one of the selection 'educators' who puts together the offical Adobe Lightroom book 'tutorial/manual thing every year or whatever it is they release the book. So what do I do? *_ There is really a lot to learn about Lighroom?_ I don't have it now, but plan to get it next year when I get a Macbook pro.

It's not just a sit there and listen/take notes course either. We each sit at a workstation and he teaches us how to use lightroom. Spots are very limited and they only run the course once a year. I'm totally broke and I have to enrol and pay a few thousand dollars for my course next week. Need help. Lighroom really worth doing a 6hr course? I know I'm going to regret not doing it but I don't even have Lighroom and I don't know my way around a Mac.


----------



## jebrady03 (Nov 29, 2011)

You already know the answer to your question - you're just looking for someone to tell you to take the course.

If you're not getting your macbook pro or Lightroom right now (not to mention the lack of money), why would you even consider taking this course if you can just take it next year when the guy comes back?


----------



## Mappy (Nov 29, 2011)

You say your funds are a problem, so I would suggest not taking the $650 course now.

Also, you don't have Lightroom yet. A free trial (win/mac) can be downloaded from adobe.com. You'd better first see if you like the program before spending so much money on it. For the greater part Lightroom works quite intuitively, but it is good to have some knowledge of the photographic basics of color, contrast, etc. to know which button to push to get the desired result.
If you feel you need to get more out of Lightroom than you can by just playing with it for a while, buy a book and do some self-studying. This allows you to use your own pictures, at your own speed.

If you still have questions after finishing the book, ask here on the forum


----------



## ferdi (Nov 29, 2011)

I say internet (e.g. YouTube) is the new classroom.
If you know someone attending the course then maybe you can ask him/her to teach you afterwards?
Getting a book (not neccessarily the official guide) might get you started too.


----------



## scottkinfw (Nov 29, 2011)

Heck yes!

You could sign up for a class at a community college for less. Another option is "Lightroom 3, Book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby. $31.00 on Amazon. A great option is join NAPP, they have great tutorials. Cost 100/year or less, get LR3 for $99.00, plus lots of other benefits.

There are other software products as well, lik Nik

sek


----------



## RC (Nov 29, 2011)

No way on the $650 training at least for now and maybe never (spend your money on gear or LR itself). 

Don't forget Adobe TV, its an excellent source for training. This is how I learned and am still learning LR. 

Julieanne Kost does an excellent job going through lots and lots of tutorials.

https://tv.adobe.com/product/lightroom/


----------



## KurtStevens (Nov 29, 2011)

I wouldn't pay it. There is a lot to learn about lightroom but you can find any/all information on it on the web. I know what I know from the web. I picked up a few things on management from a friend or two but that was it. Save your money and if you have any questions, facebook or email me, I would be happy to answer (I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum that would do the same). 

650 is a lot of cash to throw down on something you can learn for free.


----------



## EYEONE (Nov 29, 2011)

Lightroom 3 is not that complicated. You can get a book or watch some videos on youtube and get good information. If I were you I would not take that course. Get the trial and just play with it, it won't take you but a few sittings to figure most things out.


----------



## wtlloyd (Nov 29, 2011)

$650 is way too much for your situation. 

You could subscribe to Lynda.com and have year long access to instruction, whenever you want it. 

The best series of video on Lightroom is found here, and it's on sale :
http://store.luminous-landscape.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=244

If you wanted to take a class and dump some bucks, you can get 4 days for $1100 from Seth Resnick at D-65 
http://www.d-65.com/workshops.html

The best, exhaustive coverage book is from Martin Evening: The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3 Book (Adobe Press)


----------



## xROELOFx (Nov 29, 2011)

in my opinion: yes, it is way too much! like the others before me have said, there's lots of information to be found anywhere on the internet. also LR is not that hard to learn. good luck anyways!


----------



## sb (Nov 29, 2011)

scottsdaleriots the answer is a definitive NO. Lightoom is one of the most intuitive, easiest pieces of software I've ever used in my life. When I first got Lightroom, I spent 20 minutes playing around in it on my own and I could already do 80% of the things that I needed to do. For the remaining 20% of functionality, I watched some specific youtube videos. That's it. I never even bought a book on it, there really is no need.


----------



## distant.star (Nov 29, 2011)

Sounds like $650 is too much for your situation.

What you describe is probably appropriate for someone with a full-time photo business who is going to use LR as an integral part of the business workflow process. A lot of that process has more to do with the database management aspects than with image processing -- LR can do all that. You don't appear to be running a full-time business.

To second what others have said, LR can be used intuitively for most of what amateurs need. I've been using it a long time and simply figured it out by using it -- but that's me and has always been my practice with new software. I believe if software is so difficult to use that I need special training, the developers didn't work very hard at it -- and they expect me to do a lot of the work they should have done.

Again, as others have said, download a trial version. Try it out. If you don't like it, you haven't thrown away $650.


----------



## chriswatters (Nov 29, 2011)

As others have suggested, you are probably better off waiting on the course. 

Put that $650 towards buying yourself a copy of Lightroom and a cheep PC. You will get much more out of using the program yourself than watching someone else use it. Start by downloading a trial version. Then have a look at the tutorials on http://tv.adobe.com and other sites. 

Hold off on taking the course until you can get something more out of it than you could get by watching a free video online. It might be worth while later, but if you budget doesn't allow you to buy Lightroom, I don't see how you can justify taking the course.

Seriously, if you don't already have a computer, start there. $480 will get you enough of a computer that you can use lightroom. 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+Inspiron+I570-9445NBK+Desktop+%26+20%22+LED+Monitor+Package/9999170400050022.p?id=pcmprd170100050023&skuId=9999170400050022

It is not much but it is as good as the computer that I am running Lightroom on right now. It will atleast let you get started. Adorama currently has lightroom on sale for $180. So for $10 more than the cost of that 6 hour class you could be using Lightroom all you want. Even if you dumped the computer and software into a bin after a week, you would probably learn more from using lightroom during that time than you would from taking the class.


----------



## TexPhoto (Nov 29, 2011)

Agree with the others. I just checked youtube and there are 12,400 videos on Adobe Lightroom, you can find 1000s of free tips tricks and courses on the web. Books down at the book store, are $20-50. 

I think you are crazy to pay $650 for a course like this.

As for buying computer, a trick I used back in the day was to buy a used computer on ebay that said it had the software I wanted. Also look into student pricing at local colleges.


----------



## Maui5150 (Nov 29, 2011)

Lightroom is fairly intuitive.

I would be more inclined, all things considered if I was in your shoes to take $600, buy a copy of light room if you don't already have it (and especially if you missed the sales (New Egg had $99 and I think may still be $199) and sine you seem to be taking classes, see if the Student price is available. 

Next piece, and I may differ from some, is spend the money and get something like the X-Rite Color Checker. When combined with Lightroom, for me at least, takes away a lot of the need I have to do most of the initial tweaks and corrections. Starting with a white balance and color matching will get you a long way to begin. 

I also invested in a good light meter. Took a ton of hunting, but I found a great Sekonic L-758DR which allows me to profile my camera and I am really liking it. That can be overkill, but you can also find something like the L-558R and what I love about these is they have PocketWizard triggers built in so I can trigger my strobes with no cord, etc. I also love having the 1 degree spot meter. 

There are a great many shooters who just use the histograms off of the back of the body, but I think it is easier for me at least to use a meter. After I have hundreds and hundreds of hours, I am sure I will be better at guessing by look and feel, but I can tell you that say being a half stop off on your exposure can be many many hours correcting. 

My total cost of this set up is right in the ball park of your LR course. (Sekonic was $415 shipped, X-Rite Passport was $89 and LR $99. 

I think add in maybe a decent LR book or find a Kelby course or other DVD or online hour or so training and you will get a lot more out of the course. 

By the way... If you use a later version of Photoshop, Smart Objects are very cool to bounce back and forth between LightRoom and Photoshop.


----------



## bycostello (Nov 29, 2011)

with decent knowledge you take the picture rather than letting the camera take the picture...


----------



## steven63 (Nov 29, 2011)

WWW.LYNDA.COM

$25 per month and you can watch all the tutorials you want on photoshop CS5, Lightroom 3, and any other program that has anything to do with photography.

It's a great site.

Personally I like the tutorials that Chris Orwig puts together there. He has beginner and advanced tutorials for Photoshop. Both are about 14 hours long and he goes through the whole program and all the tools. 

His Lightroom 3 tutorial is about 12 hours long and covers absolutely everything you would want to know about the program. 

The best thing? You can cancel the membership after a month if you finish the tutorials and subscribe at a later time to learn about something else or refresh a program you haven't used in a while. $25 for this service is a steal and well worth it. I recommend you give it a try before you spend $650 for a 6 hour course.


----------



## CowGummy (Nov 29, 2011)

I've always been a big believer in the old 'learning-by-doing' philosophy. And of course everyone is different, but personally there is no way I would spend that kind of money on a course like that. I've always been of the opinion that I personally learn more by messing around with software by myself and referning to specific tutorials online for anything I'm desperate to know asap.
If I were in your shoes I would sink the money into a new lens or a photo-specific holiday to go and shoot for real and learn as you go along. Think of it as learning but with the nice by-product of actually taking some great shots!

Just my $0.02


----------



## Axilrod (Nov 29, 2011)

steven63 said:


> WWW.LYNDA.COM
> 
> $25 per month and you can watch all the tutorials you want on photoshop CS5, Lightroom 3, and any other program that has anything to do with photography.
> 
> ...



+1 for Lynda, I've learned so much from that site it's not even funny. It's broken down really well, and you could use it for 2 years for $650. It's all very visual and all of the tutorials are high quality. They have courses on everything from actual photography to pretty much every single CS5 app, as well as highly complex 3D applications and whatnot. 
Try out the Lightroom course on Lynda, and if you still feel the need to take the class after that, go for it. But to hell with $650 for ONE day...regardless of how good the course is, you can only take in so much in that amount of time. 

Cliffnotes: $650/1 day course < $25/class for a month + $625 of new gear 

Kudos to you either way for taking the time and effort to learn proper techniques (something so many ignore nowadays).


----------



## Meh (Nov 29, 2011)

TexPhoto said:


> As for buying computer, a trick I used back in the day was to buy a used computer on ebay that said it had the software I wanted. Also look into student pricing at local colleges.



Software isn't always transferable and you have to be student to qualify for student pricing so this may not be legal for some programs. But if that isn't a concern well then just download a pirated version, not that I'm recommending that of course.


----------



## photophreek (Nov 29, 2011)

$650 is way too much money to spend on a LR course unless Scott Kelby is teaching it. Something tells me that the cost of the course would be a whole lot more if he was teaching. Time to spend the money buying the software and get Scott Kelby's book. Fire up the software and start using it which is the best way to learn.


----------



## sct69 (Nov 29, 2011)

At over a hundred dollars an hour someone is on a good thing. If I cant figure out how to do something I'll Google it or come to this very informative forum. Like others have said there are plenty of tutorials out there in web land for FREE. Lightroom is a great program but for me I definitely choose to save the cash and teach myself.


----------



## TexPhoto (Nov 29, 2011)

Meh said:


> TexPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > As for buying computer, a trick I used back in the day was to buy a used computer on ebay that said it had the software I wanted. Also look into student pricing at local colleges.
> ...



Lightroom and Adobe commercial software is transferable. If you are not a student, they are not going to sell you student software. As for piracy if you don't recommend it, why bring it up? It's actually pretty hard to find most mac software via pirate site, and when you do, it's one of the best ways to pick up a mac virus or just get something that does not work. So I don't recommend it.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 29, 2011)

I'd say its grossly overpriced. You should be able to get a course for under $200.

It is well worth it to take some training, its not intuitive at all, many of the finer points are hidden and you will be missing out on many of the powerful features. A thourough understanding of how the dataabase works will save you a lot of headaches.


----------



## Meh (Nov 29, 2011)

TexPhoto said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > TexPhoto said:
> ...



My comment is only meant to point out that your old trick of buying a used computer to get software is subject to that software being transferable which you failed to indicate and not everyone knows that. In the cases that it is, great idea but anyone reading your comment should be aware of the issue in case they are concerned about that. As for the student pricing, it is easy to buy student versions without being a student, however it's not legal. My comment about downloading software was meant to be lighthearted, sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.


----------



## JPL_1020 (Nov 29, 2011)

$650 is definitely a lot of money. With LR you just have to know the basics and you can learn everything else yourself. 

Have an online training @ kelbytraining.com. It's $24/mo ($19 if you're NAPP Member), for that price you can access all their online courses and repeat it as you wish as long as you're subscription has not expired.

It would be best if you get LR3 now and have it in your screen while you're training so you can learn simultaneously.


----------



## Stu_bert (Nov 29, 2011)

scottsdaleriots said:


> Reason I ask is because there's a Lightroom (6 hour) short course running on Saturday from a well-known and respected educational insitution. I've already completed 4 photography-based short courses before and am currently (almost finished) two more photography short courses. ALL the short courses I've done have been _over $600 each_ which certainly adds up (6x$600-$650=NEW body and 2 lenses). I'm also doing a photography course next year (not a short course, goes or 3yrs).
> 
> *But the man running this short course is one of the selection 'educators' who puts together the offical Adobe Lightroom book 'tutorial/manual thing every year or whatever it is they release the book. So what do I do? *_ There is really a lot to learn about Lighroom?_ I don't have it now, but plan to get it next year when I get a Macbook pro.
> 
> It's not just a sit there and listen/take notes course either. We each sit at a workstation and he teaches us how to use lightroom. Spots are very limited and they only run the course once a year. I'm totally broke and I have to enrol and pay a few thousand dollars for my course next week. Need help. Lighroom really worth doing a 6hr course? I know I'm going to regret not doing it but I don't even have Lighroom and I don't know my way around a Mac.


In addition to all the other great suggestions posted, you might want to consider refurbed mac or pc and a starters guide/course to using the Mac or PC if you're not familiar with either of them.

Everyone is different when it comes to learning. If you respond better to a classroom than you do to reading books, watching videos or surfing the web, then you should consider some alternative courses as the price seems very steep. Also if you've little understanding on the Mac, then heading straight into a LR course may be biting off a bit too much in the first go. I would lean towards the advice of others - once you have an understanding of the Mac (and the mac itself!), grab a eval copy and a $30 book and see how far you get. If that fails, well then you can still do a course and have the book as a reference afterwards

Finally, learning any computer stuff is like learning to cook or a foreign language. Some people will struggle, some will pick it up very quickly and everyone else will be somewhere in between - I consider LR intuitive and quick to pick up, but ask me to tell you my name in Spanish and I'll struggle...


----------



## seacritter (Nov 29, 2011)

I'd do Lynda.com and Kelby first...


----------



## cislovers (Nov 29, 2011)

$650 sounds like too much to me, unless it's one on one then maybe there's value. A person has to make a living. Have you considered a photo class with lightroom instruction included, check out http://www.bcphotoadventures.com/ I've taken five of these classes and have always been impressed.A word of caution these are intensive lasses up before dawn for the morning shoot, noontime processing, then out in the field again for the sunset shoot, back to the classroom for more processing.


----------



## UncleFester (Nov 30, 2011)

What were the other courses you took and what course are you getting ready to spend thousands of dollars on?

It sounds like you've been getting "the shaft" up 'til now if you still don't know macs or lightroom.

Like others have said: online tutorials. Free. And you can take out of it what you want. 5-6 years ago everything was a big secret. Now the right info is all over the place.


----------



## Philco (Nov 30, 2011)

I think someone who has spent some time in LR already would benefit more from this kind of intensive workshop. There is a crazy amount of information to absorb and you can only take in so much on one day. You will probably end up working through all the study materials and take-home papers in the months following, which is an awful lot like working from a book anyway. It is a pretty intuitive application and you might be surprised how much you can learn on your own. 
Unless you have a really high volume workflow issue to solve, I would save the money.


----------



## wickidwombat (Nov 30, 2011)

i just bought the scott kelby lightroom book from amazon, it was ALOT cheaper than that and you can go at your own pace and you have it for reference. Good instructional books are worthwhile.


----------



## scottsdaleriots (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks for everyone's input and advice/suggestion - I certainly didn't expect so many people to respond lol. I will take a look at getting Scott Kelby's book. I didn't realise til someone mentioned it here that with all of the money I spent to pay for those 6 courses I could've taken a nice holkiday somewhere taken some great photos! Unfortunately I didn't think of that.

*Is it worth studying photography?* I mean, you can be a pro photographer without having to have done a degree or similar. But I'd like to work ina studio to dip my toe in the water as to working in the photography industry but everyone I've applied to always ask if I have a qualification which I don't.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 4, 2011)

scottsdaleriots said:


> Thanks for everyone's input and advice/suggestion - I certainly didn't expect so many people to respond lol. I will take a look at getting Scott Kelby's book. I didn't realise til someone mentioned it here that with all of the money I spent to pay for those 6 courses I could've taken a nice holkiday somewhere taken some great photos! Unfortunately I didn't think of that.
> 
> *Is it worth studying photography?* I mean, you can be a pro photographer without having to have done a degree or similar. But I'd like to work ina studio to dip my toe in the water as to working in the photography industry but everyone I've applied to always ask if I have a qualification which I don't.



Lightroom is a great tool, its like a iceburg, most of the features are not readily seen, and the usage of the controls is definitely not well described. I do a lot better if I know exactly what those sliders are supposed to do, and how to set them then just trying to observe their effect on the image.

If you want to add vibrance, for example, it is intended to increase color saturation without affecting skin tones while the saturation control affects all colors. This is not readily apparent from using the control, since many use it on flowers and other subjects with no skin tones where the saturation control might work better.

http://www.photographworks.com/2010/07/08/photoshop-explains-vibrance-versus-saturation/

You can google all the sliders or buy a book, but you will know what to look for when you adjust a slider if you know what it does. There are many ways to adjust the sliders as well, sliding them with a mouse may now be the fastest way for many.


----------



## darleks (Dec 4, 2011)

How much will it cost you to download, listen to and watch the tutorials on Lightroom from www.luminous-landscape.com?


----------



## scottsdaleriots (Dec 7, 2011)

I didn't realise Scotts Kelby had written so many how-to... guides. Can anyone recommend one of his lightroom books for me? I don't just want to pick any one, I just want one book and stick with it.


----------



## scottsdaleriots (Dec 11, 2011)

That lightroom class was cancelled as they didnt have enough people who paid and enrolled for it - but 3 teachers from the institution wanted to do it and some other students. In the end they now have enough students and are proceeding with the LR3 course next wednesday.

In one of my short course a man kindly gave everyone in the class a cd each with the olynda.com LR3 video tutorials on it. I think I may just use that for now.


----------



## Edwin Herdman (Dec 11, 2011)

scottsdaleriots said:


> Reason I ask is because there's a Lightroom (6 hour) short course running on Saturday from a well-known and respected educational insitution. I've already completed 4 photography-based short courses before and am currently (almost finished) two more photography short courses. ALL the short courses I've done have been _over $600 each_ which certainly adds up (6x$600-$650=NEW body and 2 lenses). I'm also doing a photography course next year (not a short course, goes or 3yrs). [...] Lighroom really worth doing a 6hr course? I know I'm going to regret not doing it but I don't even have Lighroom and I don't know my way around a Mac.


You really hate money, don't you?

Forget Lightroom, get the GIMP and use it on your regular ol' PC. No problem at all.

I admit, it's taken me a while to get used to the non-PS layout but it works well enough, I think. (It'll work better once they get the GEGL, i.e. video card accelerated non-destructive processing, stuff done.)


----------



## scottsdaleriots (Dec 12, 2011)

Edwin Herdman said:


> scottsdaleriots said:
> 
> 
> > Reason I ask is because there's a Lightroom (6 hour) short course running on Saturday from a well-known and respected educational insitution. I've already completed 4 photography-based short courses before and am currently (almost finished) two more photography short courses. ALL the short courses I've done have been _over $600 each_ which certainly adds up (6x$600-$650=NEW body and 2 lenses). I'm also doing a photography course next year (not a short course, goes or 3yrs). [...] Lighroom really worth doing a 6hr course? I know I'm going to regret not doing it but I don't even have Lighroom and I don't know my way around a Mac.
> ...


Lol, I love money I just hate not having enough of it ;D Also I just learnt that the first year of my uni photography course will cost me about $10,000 for the first year! That's not including materials, so expensive.

I heard of GIMP, I always thought of it as a PS alternative not a Lightroom alternative. I've heard good and bad things aboujt it but haven't given it a go. What's it like?


----------



## kennykodak (Dec 15, 2011)

most of the guys i know in photography these days who are making good are platform speakers/carpet baggers.


----------



## Freshprince08 (Dec 15, 2011)

scottsdaleriots said:


> I didn't realise Scotts Kelby had written so many how-to... guides. Can anyone recommend one of his lightroom books for me? I don't just want to pick any one, I just want one book and stick with it.



Spend some time with this and you'll be on your way:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Photoshop-Lightroom-Digital-Photographers/dp/0321700910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323989287&sr=8-1

Also worth watching some of the edits people post on YouTube... Dom Bower, Jared Polin to name a few.


----------



## Jettatore (Dec 15, 2011)

scottsdaleriots said:


> I heard of GIMP, I always thought of it as a PS alternative not a Lightroom alternative. I've heard good and bad things aboujt it but haven't given it a go. What's it like?



You are absolutely correct, yet there are GIMP like FOSS alternatives to Lightroom as well. More info buried in this thread http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,2216.0.html

And honestly, if one is needing all this specialized training in Lightroom, then I would suggest backing up a step, get a better grasp on computing/software in general, and spend that time of deep study with something like Photoshop or it's GIMP alternative because by the time you are done, Lightroom/Aperature will seem like cake to work out and you won't even need a book. This will not work in the reverse direction.


----------



## Edwin Herdman (Dec 16, 2011)

scottsdaleriots said:


> *Is it worth studying photography?* I mean, you can be a pro photographer without having to have done a degree or similar. But I'd like to work ina studio to dip my toe in the water as to working in the photography industry but everyone I've applied to always ask if I have a qualification which I don't.


Just get out there and put your fears to bed. The best cure for inexperience is experience - your own.

@ dilbert: Hey, thanks for the link to Dark Table. I need to give that a look!


----------



## spaceheat (Dec 16, 2011)

Agree with most everyone else. Buy a book. Scott Kelby is a pretty popular author on the subject.


----------

