# Armando Ferreira: Testing out the NEW Canon EOS R5 in a real world production environment.



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 25, 2020)

> One of my favourite YouTubers Armando Ferreira has his hands on both the Canon EOS R6 and Canon EOS R5 and he is working with Kondor Blue to do some real-world production testing of the Canon EOS R5.
> The video displayed here re-creates the iconic courtroom scene in A Few Good Men, as well as some 8K run and gun footage. If you can do so, be sure to switch your YouTube stream to 8K.



Continue reading...


----------



## Bob Howland (Jul 25, 2020)

I wonder if Canon realized just how intensely (and creatively) the R5 and R6 were going to be tested.


----------



## Lenscracker (Jul 25, 2020)

So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


----------



## msatter (Jul 25, 2020)

Canon certainly kept stuff out to sell an other camera in a few years


----------



## TMHKR (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


Not necessary, regarding the photography everything on the R5 Just Works™


----------



## sanj (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


This was not a review for either. 'Throws hands up in the air.'


----------



## zim (Jul 25, 2020)

Well the one thing it proved to me is that content is king, I'd have enjoyed that dialogue filmed in 1080, just want to go and watch that film again now! ( It did look real good as well though  )


----------



## StevenA (Jul 25, 2020)

That body cap though!


----------



## Besisika (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


It is hard to review it right now because of the pandemic, but once that is gone, you will have a lot of people testing it. I am most interesting how it works at midday with strobe, included ND with the adapter and the viewfinder. I used to find a shade in order to assess available light prior to turning on the strobe, as well as to review the photo once taken, but I am curious to see how it works with mirrorless and the advanced features of the R5.

By the way, Armando is one of my favorites too, a real shooter who tries to find a way to use a gear instead of moaning and groaning about its weakness.


----------



## Bob Howland (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


Wild Guess: The DPReview will be a lot more balanced in that regard, although I expect Jordan to be using an R5.


----------



## Lenscracker (Jul 25, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Not necessary, regarding the photography everything on the R5 Just Works™


 This is funny. I hope it was meant as a joke. My old Canon F1 "just works", too.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 25, 2020)

I expect that just like the 5D MK II, studios will be using the camera for scenes where space is limited, and indies on a shoestring may also be using R5's, its cheaper to buy than to rent a high end cinema camera.


----------



## Lenscracker (Jul 25, 2020)

Besisika said:


> It is hard to review it right now because of the pandemic, but once that is gone, you will have a lot of people testing it. I am most interesting how it works at midday with strobe, included ND with the adapter and the viewfinder. I used to find a shade in order to assess available light prior to turning on the strobe, as well as to review the photo once taken, but I am curious to see how it works with mirrorless and the advanced features of the R5.
> 
> By the way, Armando is one of my favorites too, a real shooter who tries to find a way to use a gear instead of moaning and groaning about its weakness.


 The pandemic doesn't seem to have hampered the plethora of video reviews. How about an online R5 operators manual? That alone would answer most of my questions and it wouldn't spread any virus.


----------



## Yano (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.



Check this one out, its about the photography side for the R5


----------



## dtaylor (Jul 25, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Not necessary, regarding the photography everything on the R5 Just Works™



This has been true of Canon cameras for years. Tony Northrup said the AF is now "better than Sony" which was probably the only lingering question for stills shooters moving to mirrorless. (And for him to say that you know it's good.) What other questions are there?

High ISO? Dominated by photon shot noise which is not subject to tech. There's about a 1ev difference between the worst and best FF sensors of the past decade, and the R5 will be near the top (best) of that. So comparable to a 5D4 or 1DX3, and about 0.5ev - 0.66ev better than the 5Ds/sR.

DR? At least as good as the 5D4, possibly 0.5-1ev better based on a Canon statement. Which would put it 1-2ev better than a 5Ds/sR.

Real world resolution/sharpness? The R5 samples are gorgeous and have the same phenomenally detailed/sharp look of the 5Ds and 5DsR samples from 5 years ago. AlanF will no doubt tease out any differences of the AA R5 45mp sensor versus the AA-less 5DsR 50mp sensor, but for 99% of people it's a moot point because the R5's IQ is simply excellent.

If you want to go high resolution 35mm and money is no object, buy an R5. If you want to go high resolution 35mm and money is an issue, go on eBay and pickup a new, gray market 5Ds for $1,100 (occasionally they drop to $1,000). With one the AF point magically follows your subject and you get live exposure preview. With the other you have to follow your subject and you get longer battery life. Otherwise they just work.


----------



## yestostills (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


As a broadcast TV videographer and video journalist I agree. Most of the DoP's and producers I know in the film industry use Arri's for drama. My colleagues and I shoot mostly with Sony HDcams for productions because they are so well suited. As a still photographer, who wants to upgrade, I want to know if the R5's dynamic range as well as other features are now far superior in stills than the competitors.


----------



## Besisika (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> The pandemic doesn't seem to have hampered the plethora of video reviews. How about an online R5 operators manual? That alone would answer most of my questions and it wouldn't spread any virus.


True, I am waiting too.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 25, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> This has been true of Canon cameras for years. Tony Northrup said the AF is now "better than Sony" which was probably the only lingering question for stills shooters moving to mirrorless. (And for him to say that you know it's good.) What other questions are there?
> 
> High ISO? Dominated by photon shot noise which is not subject to tech. There's about a 1ev difference between the worst and best FF sensors of the past decade, and the R5 will be near the top (best) of that. So comparable to a 5D4 or 1DX3, and about 0.5ev - 0.66ev better than the 5Ds/sR.
> 
> ...



There are a lot more "new" features on this camera for photography though than a DSLR. For a lot of canon shooters, this is the first EVF they'll use full time. The high frame rate modes have more asterisks than a pharmaceutical ad (Lens, battery charge, bit depth, etc). I've yet to see really challenging autofocus that wasn't done by an explorer. How bad is the skew with the electronic shutter? What's the battery life in the real world when shooting with a large(er) stabilized lens like the 100-400.

There's a lot I'd really like to see covered that goes beyond [email protected], High ISO and how strong the AA is.


----------



## Skux (Jul 25, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.



FroKnowsPhoto just posted a video testing eye AF in stills and the results are impressive.


----------



## PhotoGenerous (Jul 25, 2020)

msatter said:


> Canon certainly kept stuff out to sell an other camera in a few years



Or if people have guessed right about the third camera being announced this year as an RF video camera, all these anti-R5 videos are actually going to make the RF video camera look even better when the details are released.


----------



## dtaylor (Jul 26, 2020)

PhotoGenerous said:


> Or if people have guessed right about the third camera being announced this year as an RF video camera, all these anti-R5 videos are actually going to make the RF video camera look even better when the details are released.



At this point it looks like Canon could release an R5c with a fan, double the price, and people would still love it and buy it


----------



## CaMeRa QuEsT (Jul 26, 2020)

This:


----------



## GastonShutters (Jul 26, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


I have that plan to do so as soon as I get it on my channel “Gaston Shutters” I am a photographer mainly and got this camera for its photo capabilities not video. Although I’m sure I’ll do great with 4K 24fps.


----------



## GastonShutters (Jul 26, 2020)

msatter said:


> Canon certainly kept stuff out to sell an other camera in a few years


That’s why I’ve been shooting with Sony for 6 years. They stick their latest tech even in their cheaper cameras. Look at the Zv1 or a6400 almost same video and AF capabilities as the bigger brothers.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I expect that just like the 5D MK II, studios will be using the camera for scenes where space is limited, and indies on a shoestring may also be using R5's, its cheaper to buy than to rent a high end cinema camera.



I expect that indies will _not_ be using R5s, due to overheating problems when shooting in 4K and better/cheaper options when shooting in 1080.

EDIT: And if you don't need a full-frame image (and why should you? The most popular cinema camera in the game, the ARRI Alexa, only has a Super 35-sized sensor), you could just as easily shoot 4K or 6K on a Blackmagic URSA or Pocket, each available in EF-mount for $1K to $2K less than an R5.

My point in bringing all this up is just that there are much more capable cinema cameras than the R5 that _don't_ have overheating problems. If I had an R5, I would use it for BTS/wedding video, but never on a movie production.


----------



## Jethro (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I expect that indies will _not_ be using R5s, due to overheating problems when shooting in 4K and better/cheaper options when shooting in 1080.


Wow - near the bottom of the 2nd page of comments before the overheating furphy emerged ...


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

Jethro said:


> Wow - near the bottom of the 2nd page of comments before the overheating furphy emerged ...



The camera overheats when shooting 4K video. No one in their right mind would shoot a movie on it, given that we routinely work 12-14 hour days making movies.


----------



## Jethro (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> The camera overheats when shooting 4K video. No one in their right mind would shoot a movie on it, given that we routinely work 12-14 hour days making movies.


Sigh - the camera has limitations (the same as all other cameras do) in certain 4k and 8k settings and has built-in safeguards to _avoid_ overheating. Do we need to go through the voluminous replies on other threads again about standard practices on shoots around the use of multiple cameras, or the length of individual shots etc? So yes, it is a furphy, and will continue to be so until there are proper reviews that deal with these issues.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> No one in their right mind would shoot a movie on it, given that we routinely work 12-14 hour days making movies.


That's the point though, isn't it? _Because that's not what it's for._

But if you insist on such folly - here:









Tiltaing Camera Cage for Canon R5


The next camera system to be supported by our Tiltaing collection of camera accessories is the new Canon R5. Featuring a new mirrorless CMOS image sensor and 8K RAW / 4K 120P capabilities…




tilta.com


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

Jethro said:


> Sigh - the camera has limitations (the same as all other cameras do) in certain 4k and 8k settings and has built-in safeguards to _avoid_ overheating. Do we need to go through the voluminous replies on other threads again about standard practices on shoots around the use of multiple cameras, or the length of individual shots etc? So yes, it is a furphy, and will continue to be so until there are proper reviews that deal with these issues.



The R5 is not a practical cinema camera. On film sets, time is money, and no one in their right mind will hire/buy a camera that will, under predictable conditions, require a 10-20 minute cooldown period before the next take.

Simply not going to happen.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

Keith_Reeder said:


> That's the point though, isn't it? _Because that's not what it's for._
> 
> But if you insist on such folly - here:
> 
> ...



Yes, I'm aware. I was responding to a post claiming that studio and indie features would be clamoring to use the R5.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Yes, I'm aware. I was responding to a post claiming that studio and indie features would be clamoring to use the R5.


Not really. You responded to Jethro's:


> Wow - near the bottom of the 2nd page of comments before the overheating furphy emerged ...


----------



## Jethro (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Yes, I'm aware. I was responding to a post claiming that studio and indie features would be clamoring to use the R5.


No - you were responding to a post (and you quoted it) saying "_Indies on a shoestring may also be using R5's, its cheaper to buy than to rent a high end cinema camera_." Which is obviously correct. You're not very into accuracy on any level, are you?


----------



## seasonascent (Jul 26, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> I wonder if Canon realized just how intensely (and creatively) the R5 and R6 were going to be tested.


Jared Polin has your back.


----------



## dtaylor (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> The camera overheats when shooting 4K video. No one in their right mind would shoot a movie on it, given that we routinely work 12-14 hour days making movies.



Most hybrid 4k cameras overheat. The X-T3 will overheat. The X-T4 will overheat faster. Sony bodies will overheat. The FF Panasonics...except the one with the fan...will overheat. Yet these cameras still get used to produce footage for professional productions. Filmmakers like Armando will work around the limitations...even if it involves a leaf blower. Armchair reviewers will cry about it.

If you've only got the money for a single workhorse camera, then BMPCC is likely your best bet. Although we have yet to see how the R5/R6 perform with an external recorder. If that fixes the overheating issues then these are two strong contenders even standing next to a BMPCC.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jul 26, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> At this point it looks like Canon could release an R5c with a fan, double the price, and people would still love it and buy it


Or just stick one of these on the back?








Tiltaing Camera Cage for Canon R5


The next camera system to be supported by our Tiltaing collection of camera accessories is the new Canon R5. Featuring a new mirrorless CMOS image sensor and 8K RAW / 4K 120P capabilities…




tilta.com




(No idea how effective it is, but the point is that solutions are already emerging, and _something_ will work...)


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

Jethro said:


> No - you were responding to a post (and you quoted it) saying "_Indies on a shoestring may also be using R5's, its cheaper to buy than to rent a high end cinema camera_." Which is obviously correct. You're not very into accuracy on any level, are you?



Indie and studio features are not going to shoot any film _primarily_ on the R5, no matter how much certain forumers would like this to be true. For a shot or two? Perhaps. As a crash cam? Why not, they used to do that with the 5D mk. II back in the day.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Most hybrid 4k cameras overheat. The X-T3 will overheat. The X-T4 will overheat faster. Sony bodies will overheat. The FF Panasonics...except the one with the fan...will overheat. Yet these cameras still get used to produce footage for professional productions. Filmmakers like Armando will work around the limitations...even if it involves a leaf blower. Armchair reviewers will cry about it.
> 
> If you've only got the money for a single workhorse camera, then BMPCC is likely your best bet. Although we have yet to see how the R5/R6 perform with an external recorder. If that fixes the overheating issues then these are two strong contenders even standing next to a BMPCC.



I would be curious to see that! I don't think I've seen a test yet of whether the R5 overheats less when using an external recorder.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

Jethro said:


> No - you were responding to a post (and you quoted it) saying "_Indies on a shoestring may also be using R5's, its cheaper to buy than to rent a high end cinema camera_." Which is obviously correct. You're not very into accuracy on any level, are you?



Bruh, I don't know how many indie films you've worked on, but if given the choice between a camera that overheats when recording 4K and a camera that _doesn't_, indie filmmakers will choose the one that doesn't (like a BMPCC, if I'm not mistaken). Anyway, this is not rocket science.


----------



## mppix (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Indie and studio features are not going to shoot any film _primarily_ on the R5, no matter how much certain forumers would like this to be true. For a shot or two? Perhaps. As a crash cam? Why not, they used to do that with the 5D mk. II back in the day.



You are responding to a video post where a videographer is using the cam exactly in the way that you are saying cannot be done... 

There will certainly be folks that make it work for their purposes. There will be others that cannot work around the limitations. The latter folks will have to get dedicated video gear bc. non of the "hybrid" stuff eclipses the R5/6 by a reasonable margin, if at all (no, S1H is not a "hybrid" cam due to its AF).



navastronia said:


> Bruh, I don't know how many indie films you've worked on, but if given the choice between a camera that overheats when recording 4K and a camera that _doesn't_, indie filmmakers will choose the one that doesn't (like a BMPCC, if I'm not mistaken). Anyway, this is not rocket science.



As far as it is known, it does not overheat in some 4K modes and we don't know the extend of overheating of the modes that do.

Personally, I cannot wait for the moment when Canon sells an RF C100 with a fan so we can finally get over this wannabe cinematographer stuff.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2020)

mppix said:


> You are responding to a video post where a videographer is using the cam exactly in the way that you are saying cannot be done...





CaMeRa QuEsT said:


>


----------



## dtaylor (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I would be curious to see that! I don't think I've seen a test yet of whether the R5 overheats less when using an external recorder.



Generally speaking external recorders reduce heat generation in camera and enable longer shoots. At this point the degree to which an external recorder would help with an R5 or an R6 is unknown. Some of the processing and file I/O gets moved off to the recorder which has to help. But there's still sensor readout and because the video is oversampled, some significant DIGIC processing to prepare the signal sent over HDMI. (Which is limited to 4k 60p, so on the R5 if you want 8k you have to deal with the thermal issues.)

I believe the Ninja V is, or will shortly be, compatible. I'm looking forward to seeing someone test this.


----------



## mppix (Jul 26, 2020)

navastronia said:


> ...


Exactly, some make it work


----------



## mppix (Jul 26, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Generally speaking external recorders reduce heat generation in camera and enable longer shoots. At this point the degree to which an external recorder would help with an R5 or an R6 is unknown. Some of the processing and file I/O gets moved off to the recorder which has to help. But there's still sensor readout and because the video is oversampled, some significant DIGIC processing to prepare the signal sent over HDMI. (Which is limited to 4k 60p, so on the R5 if you want 8k you have to deal with the thermal issues.)
> 
> I believe the Ninja V is, or will shortly be, compatible. I'm looking forward to seeing someone test this.



So true. HDMI2.1 could have helped bypass some of the overheating.


----------



## Trout Bum (Jul 26, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> This is funny. I hope it was meant as a joke. My old Canon F1 "just works", too.


Yes, and I'm sure it just works as well as the R5/6


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 26, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.



Yes - more like this please.

The video whatever is nice (but I really don't care) but we need a photographer's perspective.


----------



## Pooshoes (Jul 26, 2020)

If people want to use it for production they'll get 2 and swap them or get an active cooling system. It won't be long till the hacks come out if the images are fantastic.


----------



## jam05 (Jul 26, 2020)

zim said:


> Well the one thing it proved to me is that content is king, I'd have enjoyed that dialogue filmed in 1080, just want to go and watch that film again now! ( It did look real good as well though  )


me too. After watching it. I immediately searched through my streaming content. Lol


----------



## jam05 (Jul 26, 2020)

CaMeRa QuEsT said:


> This:
> 
> View attachment 191555


Some people know how to do what it takes. Hey, simple, give me a fan.


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 26, 2020)

msatter said:


> Canon certainly kept stuff out to sell an other camera in a few years




So tired.


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 26, 2020)

GastonShutters said:


> That’s why I’ve been shooting with Sony for 6 years. They stick their latest tech even in their cheaper cameras. Look at the Zv1 or a6400 almost same video and AF capabilities as the bigger brothers.


The 6D had a better sensor than the 5D3 in 2013. This cripple hammer nonsense is nothing but emotion from fools who want everything for nothing and compare spec sheets, not how a system comes together in the field. For many, Canon has always had reliable and impressive SYSTEMS and ignored being the hottest spec sheet. Gets the job done without being loud and mouthy about it.

Brand religion is truly lame and lacks critical thinking. Use what you use and stop babbling about it. Truly, No. One. Cares.


----------



## NorskHest (Jul 26, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> At this point it looks like Canon could release an R5c with a fan, double the price, and people would still love it and buy it


Then I would consider buying one


----------



## NorskHest (Jul 26, 2020)

Hahahaha it looks like they are holding some sort of blue ice pack on the camera and they are using a leaf blower. Hahahaha. I’ll stick with my c200 and 1dc’s


----------



## bhf3737 (Jul 26, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


No worry at all. So called reviews so far are like blind men examining an elephant in the room and expressing their own opinions! I'd rather wait for the camera to rent it and see how it fits to my shooting subjects and style.


----------



## CaMeRa QuEsT (Jul 26, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Some people know how to do what it takes. Hey, simple, give me a fan.



Found the exact one on ebay, it's only $35 shipped, said to have only one speed: 160 MPH. Silly of me to think a little PC fan will suffice.









Greenworks 24012 7 Amp Single Speed Electric 160 MPH Blower | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Greenworks 24012 7 Amp Single Speed Electric 160 MPH Blower at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## fingerstein (Jul 26, 2020)

This is not a review. This is product placement.


----------



## adigoks (Jul 26, 2020)

For anyone whose going to make R5 as video camera. a friendly reminder that NVIDIA didnt support 4:2:2 decoding natively on its GPU.
so an external recorder is a must for recording 10 bit 4:2:2.

nvenc-nvdec decoding support table

if you're not using external recorder you gotta use proxy for editing.
if you didnt want to use proxy its going to be like this.


----------



## Twinix (Jul 26, 2020)

mppix said:


> Personally, I cannot wait for the moment when Canon sells an RF C100 with a fan so we can finally get over this wannabe cinematographer stuff.


Me too, but I dont think they will need to put in a fan for 4K 50p 10bit. If a fan has to kick in between takes etc I don’t think it will matter that much tho.


----------



## bellorusso (Jul 26, 2020)

This is not an R5 test but a shameless self promotion piece of... The tittle is 100% misleading.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 26, 2020)

I do enjoy Armondo's videos and generally he seems quite balanced. I did enjoy this video but it told me absolutely nothing about the R5 apart from it can be used with some ridiculous lenses and produce some pretty good video which, we already knew.
I'm sure he will produce more videos focusing on the actual camera performance in the not too distant future. Meanwhile Jarad Polins video on the AF is worth a watch and is a massive step up from the R. 

Roll on in a week when the R5 should be delivered.


----------



## Max TT (Jul 26, 2020)

With the overheating issue, is the R5 effectively an overpriced stills camera with cool but severely limited video features ?¿?

Same goes for the R6, I can easily buy a Nikon Z6 + Atomos kit with 1TB storage for the price of an R6. And be very close to par without the overheating issues and with extra external storage and an external monitor.

I was excited but my excitement has really waned.


----------



## Skux (Jul 26, 2020)

Let's be real, no one is using this for film production. For YouTube content, vlogs, interviews and b-roll, sure.

But to shoot an actual scripted short or feature film, no way. There are better options with more film-relevant features that don't overheat.


----------



## TMHKR (Jul 26, 2020)

I simply don't get it - the video clearly shows the R5 in a production environment, yet many comments allude that the camera is useless. What's your problem people?


----------



## dichterDichter (Jul 26, 2020)

i mean, im not interrested in taking videos but what canon could have done ist to build the r5 in a way, an external cooler could be attached for longer productions. but maybe they will bring a cine body solving that Problem and make the r5/r6 the additional camera on set using the same lenses.


----------



## Canon-Chas (Jul 26, 2020)

Does anyone take photos these days? Beginning to think I'm in the minority. It's a camera lets see 20fps with no blackout


----------



## Tielman de Villiers (Jul 26, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Not necessary, regarding the photography everything on the R5 Just Works™


Yes, but what is the dynamic range? how does it compare to the 1DX mark iii and 5D mark iv (and why we are busy with it Nikon 850)


----------



## Lenscracker (Jul 26, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> There are a lot more "new" features on this camera for photography though than a DSLR. For a lot of canon shooters, this is the first EVF they'll use full time. The high frame rate modes have more asterisks than a pharmaceutical ad (Lens, battery charge, bit depth, etc). I've yet to see really challenging autofocus that wasn't done by an explorer. How bad is the skew with the electronic shutter? What's the battery life in the real world when shooting with a large(er) stabilized lens like the 100-400.
> 
> There's a lot I'd really like to see covered that goes beyond [email protected], High ISO and how strong the AA is.


My 5DSr has the option of still files in small, medium, and large RAW. Does R5 have this? My Z6 has an intervalometer, but it only works for shooting time delay video. Does the R5 intervalometer work with single still RAW? My Pentax K1 records RAW stills in Pentax format *or* in the universal DNG. What file types and sizes are available with R5? I have lots of questions like this. Canon is keeping such information secret, and the reviewers are not saying a word about it. That's what really blisters me. I preordered the R5 at first opportunity, so I am not complaining about the camera. For sure, the camera will never overheat shooting 8K as long as I own it, but that is the sort of crappy information I am hammered with.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 26, 2020)

Max C said:


> With the overheating issue, is the R5 effectively an overpriced stills camera with cool but severely limited video features ?¿?
> 
> Same goes for the R6, I can easily buy a Nikon Z6 + Atomos kit with 1TB storage for the price of an R6. And be very close to par without the overheating issues and with extra external storage and an external monitor.
> 
> I was excited but my excitement has really waned.


That's a very over simplified way of looking at it but ultimately it's your money so go for it and buy a Z6 etc. I am confused though, as you say you were excited but it has waned. Were you excited about the 8k, 4k120p, 4k60, 45mp, 12 / 20FPS, Animal eye AF etc? If so, clearly you wanted that kind of spec but now your going to buy something that has none of those features??

To be honest the Z6 and R5 are not in the same category so cant really be compared fairly, with the R5 having almost double the MP, higher frame rates and numerous higher quality video options so 'an overpriced stills camera with cool but severely limited video features' maybe a little harsh? 

Yes, there are overheating issues that Canon have been upfront about and for someone wanting to do 4K120 OR 8K filming it limits them but then as many have said, if that's the kind of filming you need to do then surely a cinema camera would be a better tool?? Although there was a lot of hype about 8K, the R5 was never designed to be a professional film camera.

The R6 is a fair comparison and if the z6 is a better option I'd go for that but not sure I'd want to cart an Atmos kit around with me with the extra bulk and weight.

Everyone should go with what they think is right as no one but you knows what you need and what your priorities are so go for it.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 26, 2020)

Max C said:


> With the overheating issue, is the R5 effectively an overpriced stills camera with cool but severely limited video features ?¿?
> 
> Same goes for the R6, I can easily buy a Nikon Z6 + Atomos kit with 1TB storage for the price of an R6. And be very close to par without the overheating issues and with extra external storage and an external monitor.
> 
> I was excited but my excitement has really waned.



Erm they addressed most of the complaints about the previous bodies (like crop in 4K) AND added a load of video features that didn't seem feasible not long ago. SOME of the most advanced features have limitations, what a surprise. But it still does all the basic stuff its competitors do - how is it "severely limited"? Honestly, online discourse is so poisoned by this sort of attitude. Can you describe what the Z6 does that the R5/6 do not do? And as for price differences, are you comparing a brand new camera's release price with the street price of one that's been on the market over 18 months? Really??


----------



## Max TT (Jul 26, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Erm they addressed most of the complaints about the previous bodies (like crop in 4K) AND added a load of video features that didn't seem feasible not long ago. SOME of the most advanced features have limitations, what a surprise. But it still does all the basic stuff its competitors do - how is it "severely limited"? Honestly, online discourse is so poisoned by this sort of attitude. Can you describe what the Z6 does that the R5/6 do not do? And as for price differences, are you comparing a brand new camera's release price with the street price of one that's been on the market over 18 months? Really??


Z6+Atomos+1TB 

You mean other than:
25mp
No recording limit over hdmi
4k30p no premature overheating
10 bit 422 
12 bit raw over hdmi
ProRes Raw
Cf express
Boat loads of storage on ssd
The ability to color grade and apply luts via atomos in real time to showcase for clients, and other Atomos features. 
For roughly same price of R6!

Discourse please proceed...


----------



## Go Wild (Jul 26, 2020)

I read some posts saying that they are not reviews for stills of the R5. It´s a true, there aren´t and I guess it´s because Canon didn´t allow youtubers with pre-production cameras to put stills online. I only saw at the moment some stills...of course we need more to see the sensor capabilities. But....When you see a video review it´s kinda like seing a stills review also. The AF capability is the same thing in stills and video. And that animal eye af...Woaahhh!! Also with the image quality..after watching some videos in youtube i just think that the image quality in still it will be superb!! Of course...we all expect more reviews and more examples...

Regarding for video....So much as been said about his camera....My god! Yes....overheating do concern me....I can´t lie. But unless I do use the camera i can´t say for sure it will be a problem for me! And that´s why I bought the R5...and the R6!  When overheating the R5 I will pass to the R6 giving R5 time to cooldown. Only thing I lose is the 120fps but I´ll get more 30minutes of 4k60fps

I am a wildlife filmmaker and Yes I intend to use this camera as a primary camera! I want to sell the Sony Fs5 mkII. Because a lot of reasons but the primary reason is portability! To have a camera that can record 10bit 4:2:2 [email protected] this without the need to carry an external recorder...Ohh...and totally weather sealed! Man....this is insane! This means 2 less backpacks and lot´s of less worries with weather!! To add, having this wonderful DPAF II will improve a LOT the possibility off using AF to track animals!!!

Just need some days in the field to test if I can do that (use it as primary camera)! In wildlife, shots usually don´t last too many time and I usually shoot in the Arctic and Antarctica so maybe I think overheating will be less painfull...What concerns me is Africa....


Well....I am just waiting that my retailer calls me and tell me the good news...! "Hey your R5 is on the way!!" I´ll let you know after how it behaves!


----------



## scyrene (Jul 26, 2020)

Max C said:


> Z6+Atomos+1TB
> 
> You mean other than:
> 25mp
> ...



Obviously as a buyer, it makes sense to compare all models currently for sale, but new releases always cost more, so using that against one versus another is disingenuous. Some of your other points might have merit, I don't know enough about video to address that (and my question was genuine). Another genuine question - why is the stills resolution relevant? You're talking about video, and how good each camera is for that purpose.


----------



## Etienne (Jul 26, 2020)

mppix said:


> Personally, I cannot wait for the moment when Canon sells an RF C100 with a fan so we can finally get over this wannabe cinematographer stuff.



Congrats, you won first prize for Wannabe Photographer, the necessary arrogance of which is fully displayed in your comment. Fortunately there are no genuine creative people who think link you.

Putting tools in the hands of talented people is what Canon does. Bring on the C100 mk III, and ignore the arrogant plodding wannabes who have no vision!


----------



## Trout Bum (Jul 26, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> I am a wildlife filmmaker and Yes I intend to use this camera as a primary camera!
> 
> Just need some days in the field to test if I can do that (use it as primary camera)! In wildlife, shots usually don´t last too many time and I usually shoot in the Arctic and Antarctica so maybe I think overheating will be less painfull...What concerns me is Africa....



If I were planning on using an R5/6 as a primary video cam, esp. for 4k/120, this review would worry me a great deal:

https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-eos-...otage-serious-limitation-doubtful-video-tool/


----------



## mppix (Jul 26, 2020)

Etienne said:


> Congrats, you won first prize for Wannabe Photographer, the necessary arrogance of which is fully displayed in your comment. Fortunately there are no genuine creative people who think link you.
> 
> Putting tools in the hands of talented people is what Canon does. Bring on the C100 mk III, and ignore the arrogant plodding wannabes who have no vision!



I have no idea if i am genuinly creative, others should decide that.
My kind of people shoot with whatever they have and make the best of it.

PS. I think you misread my comment


----------



## bandido (Jul 26, 2020)

We all know the real reasons why Armando made this video and we appreciate it. If this was a real paid-job, he would have used his Canon EOS C500 Mark II or C200 instead.


----------



## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 26, 2020)

I just want to say that that body cap is ridiculous. Why would you ever want an aluminum body cap? All it's doing compared to a normal plastic cap is putting somewhat more wear onto your lens mount for no reason.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 26, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Meanwhile Jarad Polins video on the AF is worth a watch and is a massive step up from the R.



Autofocus must be quite good, but more importantly he put raw DNG files for download and I must say the dynamic range must be very good. ISO 400 shots look like 5DIV at ISO 100, and ISO 100 shots are much better. Unfortunately there isn't many deep shadows but from what I could see, the dynamic range will be better than 5DIV, probably on par with A7RIV.

On the flip side, it seems the AA filter is pretty strong there and requires quite high default sharpening.


----------



## Aregal (Jul 26, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


Fro Knows Photo did one


----------



## home_slice (Jul 26, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Not necessary, regarding the photography everything on the R5 Just Works™



Clearly it works but so do my 5D IVs! We want to know exactly how it works and will it work for what we do! Will it be worth the making the switch? How does the higher MP/frame rate viewfinder compare to the regular speed digital finder or the R/R6 lower MP finder? Does it finally feel optical? How well does the new sensor deal with dynamic range, noise.. What new settings are going to make our life easier and our pictures better?

like most of us, I’d need to adapt a lot of EF glass while I build an RF kit. could take a few years to fully make that transition. How well does adapted glass work in a practical setting?


----------



## Go Wild (Jul 26, 2020)

Trout Bum said:


> If I were planning on using an R5/6 as a primary video cam, esp. for 4k/120, this review would worry me a great deal:
> 
> https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-eos-...otage-serious-limitation-doubtful-video-tool/


So....first things first. Documentary filmmakers that need to make a lot of interviews just can´t use this cameras! At least only one of it! But there is something this guy from cinema5d forgot! He could just use 4k25fps and then it was good to go! Or in last resort film it at FullHD an dthen upscaled to 4k. Camera overheating does NOT block up the camera! It only blocks some certain filming choices! 

And second thing, that´s why EVERYONE that works professionally with image (stills or video) ALWAYS got to the field with 2 or even 3 camera bodies! Never use only one camera! So, for me my plan is to use both R5 and R6 and deal with the overheating swapping cameras! 

Third thing....All types of filmmaking are different...If you are conducting a lot of interviews, or need a camera to record for long periods so this EOS R5 it´s just not the camera! Period! For that, get a C200, or a C100 or a C300. This cameras are meant to make short clips and As I said, in wildlife most of the scenes are made in short clips...Unless you have a very powerful scene that get´s longer....But I never experienced more that 10 minutes straight recording! I do believe i can manage heat by using the 2 cameras and if i can´t record 4k25fps HQ (which will be my main choice) I will change to 4k25fps ALL-I and deal with it. 4K120fps are recorded in bursts of seconds, i never saw myself recording more than 10 seconds in 120fps so also in that mode I can´t see a big issue...

Now, I wont lie, yes like I said before I am a bit concerned, but I guess it wont be a problem at all in 80% of the times! Well... I hope!


----------



## mppix (Jul 26, 2020)

Trout Bum said:


> If I were planning on using an R5/6 as a primary video cam, esp. for 4k/120, this review would worry me a great deal:
> 
> https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-eos-...otage-serious-limitation-doubtful-video-tool/


R5 and R6 don't!!! have the same body material, R5 should be a lot better in extracting heat.
Also, for the sake of balance there are other reviews that barely mention heat - this is the most critical R6 (not R5!) review that I have seen


----------



## Aregal (Jul 26, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> The 6D had a better sensor than the 5D3 in 2013. This cripple hammer nonsense is nothing but emotion from fools who want everything for nothing and compare spec sheets, not how a system comes together in the field. For many, Canon has always had reliable and impressive SYSTEMS and ignored being the hottest spec sheet. Gets the job done without being loud and mouthy about it.
> 
> Brand religion is truly lame and lacks critical thinking. Use what you use and stop babbling about it. Truly, No. One. Cares.


Canon always worked for me no matter the conditons; arctic, desert, even inside Hurricane Harvey. This probably had to do with their promise to build cameras “that just work.” My first EOS R bricked and CPS was quick to replace my body. CPS is certainly what complete the ownership experience of owning a Canon product.

When working on a job, one always has a backup. That’s common sense.

Over the past couple of years, Canon has been saying that overheating has been their main challenge in combatting. They have said this in countless interviews; NAB, IBC, InterBee, etc. As a result they were criticized for being too conservative and not willing to let their tech overheat.

Well, here we are. We have fullframe 4Kat up to 30fps with no overheating. Canon could’ve stopped there and delivered a product that doesn’t overheat.

Instead, they pushed it further...4K60, 4K120, 8K30...RAW...all recorded internally.

Now, they’re getting crucified; not criticized...crucified. Haha.

That’s not without questions though...

The 1DXiii shoots 5.5K60 RAW with no overheating.

Is a 5DV, DSLR version of the R5 that doesn’t overheat coming this fall? The LAST 5D.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 26, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> So....first things first. Documentary filmmakers that need to make a lot of interviews just can´t use this cameras! At least only one of it! But there is something this guy from cinema5d forgot! He could just use 4k25fps and then it was good to go! Or in last resort film it at FullHD an dthen upscaled to 4k. Camera overheating does NOT block up the camera! It only blocks some certain filming choices!
> 
> And second thing, that´s why EVERYONE that works professionally with image (stills or video) ALWAYS got to the field with 2 or even 3 camera bodies! Never use only one camera! So, for me my plan is to use both R5 and R6 and deal with the overheating swapping cameras!
> 
> ...


apparently all of the 4k recording options for the R6 are downsampled so all modes are limited by heat. Only the R5 can do 4k 30p unlimited by heat in it's pixel binning / line skipping mode..


----------



## mariosk1gr (Jul 26, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> So far, I feel like I am running a gauntlet and am being beaten to death by reviews of R5 video capabilities. For the sake of logic and symmetry won't somebody please review this camera for a photographer, not a videographer.


----------



## leviathan18 (Jul 26, 2020)

" Some answers for you about the Canon R5:
1. Quality is the same internal vs external up to 4K60, whether HQ or not.
2. External doesn't overheat up to 4K60 (non-HQ) for at least 3 hours.
3. External does overheat at 4KHQ oversampled 24 & 30p after 75 mins.
4. There's no 4KHQ 60p."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286856342385446912


----------



## AlP (Jul 26, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Autofocus must be quite good, but more importantly he put raw DNG files for download and I must say the dynamic range must be very good. ISO 400 shots look like 5DIV at ISO 100, and ISO 100 shots are much better. Unfortunately there isn't many deep shadows but from what I could see, the dynamic range will be better than 5DIV, probably on par with A7RIV.
> 
> On the flip side, it seems the AA filter is pretty strong there and requires quite high default sharpening.



DPReview just added the R5 to the studio test scene. That's not the ultimate test, but it doesn't look bad imho.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 26, 2020)

AlP said:


> DPReview just added the R5 to the studio test scene. That's not the ultimate test, but it doesn't look bad imho.



Wow. It didn't disappoint. The shadows actually look cleaner than the A7RIV. High ISO 6400 is also less noisy. I guess Canon kept the promise to improve +1 stop against 5DIV. It may be even better than Sony. Looking forward to finally getting my preorder.


----------



## degos (Jul 26, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Not necessary, regarding the photography everything on the R5 Just Works™



Such as dropping to 13-bit RAW when in high-speed modes...


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 26, 2020)

degos said:


> Such as dropping to 13-bit RAW when in high-speed modes...



My Sony's have done that for years too, got to be so careful reading between the lines with these cameras when high speed shooting.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 26, 2020)

Anyone else notice that posterization in Armando's footage? I'm on a 5K iMac watching it in YouTube's 8K mode via Chrome browser.

On a side note, the EyeAF in Fro's footage looked superb and every bit as good as I've seen from the Sony A7 series bodies.


----------



## Mike the cat (Jul 26, 2020)

If anyone is like me and can't remember the EOS R5 heat time limits for which video mode, or are struggling to decide on which expensive CFExpress card size suits them for recording times; I put this spreadsheet together.

Information on Bitrates from DPReview and the heat limitations from the 'Canon's Statement on Overheating' article on this site. Please note this is for the R5 only.


----------



## FS670ES (Jul 26, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Most hybrid 4k cameras overheat. The X-T3 will overheat. The X-T4 will overheat faster. Sony bodies will overheat. The FF Panasonics...except the one with the fan...will overheat. Yet these cameras still get used to produce footage for professional productions. Filmmakers like Armando will work around the limitations...even if it involves a leaf blower. Armchair reviewers will cry about it.
> 
> If you've only got the money for a single workhorse camera, then BMPCC is likely your best bet. Although we have yet to see how the R5/R6 perform with an external recorder. If that fixes the overheating issues then these are two strong contenders even standing next to a BMPCC.


I don't know if it's just a simple limitation like in other cameras that you can work around. I wanted to buy R6 but then I cancelled my preorder and will wait for more tests. For now is seems that it overheats even in 4k24p and the second problem is that it cools down really really long even if you take out battery, lens and put it in the fridge. X-T4 for example overheats in 4k60 and 4k24p is not a big problem for Fuji. Even when it overheats then after 10-15 minutes it's ready to go. So for run and gun situation, for short documentaries during holiday in warm climate I see R6 overheating as a big problem which cannot be bypassed. I am doing short clips but even then R6 will overheat as heat build up time is faster than cooling down. It's a real pity as everything else about this camera is just perfect. X-T4 has many other flaws that are infuriating but I can overcome those at least.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 26, 2020)

Aregal said:


> The 1DXiii shoots 5.5K60 RAW with no overheating.



The 1Dx3 is a much bigger body.


----------



## adigoks (Jul 26, 2020)

scyrene said:


> The 1Dx3 is a much bigger body.


just got me thinking, 1DX III is just in whole another level in term of reliability both for stills and video.


----------



## koch1948 (Jul 26, 2020)

adigoks said:


> just got me thinking, 1DX III is just in whole another level in term of reliability both for stills and video.


In the fall of 2021 the EOS R1 may surface. That EOS R1 camera body will have similar quality to the EOS-1D X Mark III, but it possibly will also have EOS R5 type specs.


----------



## Jordan23 (Jul 26, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Autofocus must be quite good, but more importantly he put raw DNG files for download and I must say the dynamic range must be very good. ISO 400 shots look like 5DIV at ISO 100, and ISO 100 shots are much better. Unfortunately there isn't many deep shadows but from what I could see, the dynamic range will be better than 5DIV, probably on par with A7RIV.
> 
> On the flip side, it seems the AA filter is pretty strong there and requires quite high default sharpening.


This post has some initial findings regarding Photographic Dynamic Range DR ( Bill Claff's www.photonstophotos.net ), and it looks very promising.





EOS R5 using dual conversion gain?!: Canon EOS R Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review


Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.




www.dpreview.com





R5: 11.75
In comparison with:
A7R4: 11,62 (www.photonstophotos.net)
5Dmk4: 10,83 (www.photonstophotos.net)


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 26, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Autofocus must be quite good, but more importantly he put raw DNG files for download and I must say the dynamic range must be very good. ISO 400 shots look like 5DIV at ISO 100, and ISO 100 shots are much better. Unfortunately there isn't many deep shadows but from what I could see, the dynamic range will be better than 5DIV, probably on par with A7RIV.
> 
> On the flip side, it seems the AA filter is pretty strong there and requires quite high default sharpening.


Just watched the Tony & Chelsea Northrup video on the R5 AF.

I'm confused a little as Tony was 'blown away' but Chelsea complained of EVF blackout and overheating when taking stills and the battery running out after an hour?? They were using an RF adapter a very big EF lens and a 2x converter so may have affected things. 

Funny how none of the Canon Ambassadors complained of EVF lag in both Mechanical 12 FPS or Electronic 20FPS. on the contrary, they all said the EVF was close to a DSLR view finder in performance and none said anything about overheating when taking stills or the battery running out after an hours shooting.

Something smells a bit fishy here and doesn't make sense. Surely the Canon ambassadors wouldn't tell outright lies. I know they cant be completely honest but come on???


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 26, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Just watched the Tony & Chelsea Northrup video on the R5 AF.
> 
> I'm confused a little as Tony was 'blown away' but Chelsea complained of EVF blackout and overheating when taking stills and the battery running out after an hour?? They were using an RF adapter a very big EF lens and a 2x converter so may have affected things.
> 
> ...



Shoot the Sony A7RlV, same EVF lag with fast panning/moving subjects, but there is a slightly faster *refresh rate* which also lowers the EVF quality, so few of us choose that option for daily shooting. The A9 has a lower resolution EVF, same as the older A7Rlll, but it keeps up in realtime, so its a compromise in *absolute* EVF quality/resolution. 

There may well be a *faster refresh rate/lower resolution* mode on the R5 too, something to look out for!


----------



## TomR (Jul 26, 2020)

More from Armando 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287142893996486656


----------



## dtaylor (Jul 26, 2020)

FS670ES said:


> I don't know if it's just a simple limitation like in other cameras that you can work around. I wanted to buy R6 but then I cancelled my preorder and will wait for more tests. For now is seems that it overheats even in 4k24p and the second problem is that it cools down really really long even if you take out battery, lens and put it in the fridge. X-T4 for example overheats in 4k60 and 4k24p is not a big problem for Fuji. Even when it overheats then after 10-15 minutes it's ready to go. So for run and gun situation, for short documentaries during holiday in warm climate I see R6 overheating as a big problem which cannot be bypassed. I am doing short clips but even then R6 will overheat as heat build up time is faster than cooling down. It's a real pity as everything else about this camera is just perfect. X-T4 has many other flaws that are infuriating but I can overcome those at least.



Those are fair points. I'd still like to know if the R6 overheating goes away with an external recorder. That's a fair compromise IMHO for someone who is getting the R6 as a serious video tool. But if you are interested in video it makes sense to wait on both bodies for more testing.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 27, 2020)

Lenscracker said:


> My 5DSr has the option of still files in small, medium, and large RAW. Does R5 have this? My Z6 has an intervalometer, but it only works for shooting time delay video. Does the R5 intervalometer work with single still RAW? My Pentax K1 records RAW stills in Pentax format *or* in the universal DNG. What file types and sizes are available with R5? I have lots of questions like this. Canon is keeping such information secret, and the reviewers are not saying a word about it. That's what really blisters me. I preordered the R5 at first opportunity, so I am not complaining about the camera. For sure, the camera will never overheat shooting 8K as long as I own it, but that is the sort of crappy information I am hammered with.


The R5 will use CRAW instead of SRAW/MRAW options. Introduced with the M50 and also on the EOR R. Both compressed and non-compressed raw are .CR3 files. The comparisons online (petapixel, DRP, TDP, fstpotters etc) shows a small difference in the shadows. I won't use CRAW by default - especially for landscape/underwater but will for events where I am likely to exceed 1600-1800 shots on a 128GB card in a session.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 27, 2020)

Jordan23 said:


> This post has some initial findings regarding Photographic Dynamic Range DR ( Bill Claff's www.photonstophotos.net ), and it looks very promising.



It certainly does but it's not PTP's measurements - this guy just used the same method on random shots. It should probably be a special setup/scene which he didn't have. So I'd treat the data as very very preliminary.
But again from the DPR studio scene shots the R5 looks very good.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 27, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Something smells a bit fishy here and doesn't make sense. Surely the Canon ambassadors wouldn't tell outright lies. I know they cant be completely honest but come on???



Some people are calling for a product recall already.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 27, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Just watched the Tony & Chelsea Northrup video on the R5 AF.
> 
> I'm confused a little as Tony was 'blown away' but Chelsea complained of EVF blackout and overheating when taking stills and the battery running out after an hour?? They were using an RF adapter a very big EF lens and a 2x converter so may have affected things.
> 
> ...


I was a bit concerned after seeing that part of the review. I am hoping that there were some non-optimal settings used, and that the issues mentioned could be addressed via using different settings and a more modern lens. The teleconverter can't help either.
I really hope there was some sort of user error going on there as this set of composites would be a huge disappointment if true. It just seems odd that none of the other reviewers seem to have noticed these problems...


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 27, 2020)

Mike the cat said:


> If anyone is like me and can't remember the EOS R5 heat time limits for which video mode, or are struggling to decide on which expensive CFExpress card size suits them for recording times; I put this spreadsheet together.
> 
> Information on Bitrates from DPReview and the heat limitations from the 'Canon's Statement on Overheating' article on this site. Please note this is for the R5 only.
> 
> View attachment 191576


Great table! What does this say the CFe card write speeds need to be? I have seen a big difference between rated speed and average write speed in some specs. I haven't seen any authorised cards yet for the R5... the closest is the 1DX (under burst rate) and for some reason the Sandisk 128BG CFe card is not authorised yet it is rated at 1200MB/s








EOS-1D X Mark III


High Image Quality with New 20.1 Megapixel Full-frame CMOS Sensor Combined with Newly Designed low Pass Filter. New DIGIC X Image Processor with an ISO range of 100-102400; Expandable to 50-819200*. New 191-point AF System Capable of Tracking the Subjects Head and Face using Deep Learning...




www.usa.canon.com


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 27, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Some people are calling for a product recall already.


Think it's a bit early for a product recall as the production units haven't even reached the public and the one's sent out to press etc have some really varying reports. Some say they have had no issues then there are others that had had overheating as expected, others like Mrs Northrup who said she had horrendous issues in every area. 

Surely Canon wouldn't launch something if it was as bad as Chelsea said it was. Looking at her review again, I do wonder if there are user issues, what firmware was she using for the lenses, what state was the battery in before shooting, what setting was she using on AF, auto, self selection etc etc. 

You may be right but I hope not.


----------



## HenryL (Jul 27, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Great table! What does this say the CFe card write speeds need to be? I have seen a big difference between rated speed and average write speed in some specs. I haven't seen any authorised cards yet for the R5... the closest is the 1DX (under burst rate) and for some reason the Sandisk 128BG CFe card is not authorised yet it is rated at 1200MB/s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Always keep in mind that the important number for storage here is minimum sustained write speed. The write speed on the label is typically not that, it's usually a maximum burst speed, a different animal altogether. Unfortunately the minimum sustained speed is rarely found on spec lists, especially for cards that don't have a very good one.


----------



## Go Wild (Jul 27, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Think it's a bit early for a product recall as the production units haven't even reached the public and the one's sent out to press etc have some really varying reports. Some say they have had no issues then there are others that had had overheating as expected, others like Mrs Northrup who said she had horrendous issues in every area.
> 
> Surely Canon wouldn't launch something if it was as bad as Chelsea said it was. Looking at her review again, I do wonder if there are user issues, what firmware was she using for the lenses, what state was the battery in before shooting, what setting was she using on AF, auto, self selection etc etc.
> 
> You may be right but I hope not.



I can be wrong (I HOPE i am not wrong....) but this can´t be right! All the reviews i am seing with "normal" users in Japan they are showing tests of the EOS R5 with no issues. Just the "normal" overheating with the recording times like the times send by Canon. So it was with total surprise that I saw this "report" from EOSHD! But.....Let´s not forget they are usually Sony fans....Northrup from the beginning just tries to discredit the R5 and now it seems they are trying the good cop, bad cop! It can be a possibility that Chelsea was working with a defective body let´s not forget those are pre-production units. No one and literally no one is pointing any issue with lagging!

About that problem pointed of the overheating all the unbiased youtube videos that I see they say what Canon says. Yes there is overheating in the camera after the times that canon says, but if you record regular 4k even after the shutdown, camera will record normally. With 4k (HQ disabled) camera records just normal!

This is why I more and more starting to NOT WATCH most part of the youtubers. They simply lie, are biased and most of them they don´tknow what they are talking! I remember the EOS R. At the beginning wow...It was a terrible camera...after 1 year and after "regular" youtubers started to send reviews to internet...."erghh...well it´s not so bad afterall"....

It can happen some problems with the first units. Thats totally possible, but what this guy ( A Sony user) from EOS HD is saying is that Canon is ordering a total recall because a fatal error of the cameras! We know Canon for years! Do you guys really think Canon would send to the market a total defective product?? NO!
It´s so strange because no one is talking about this kind of issue and of course not because cameras will only be released for sale on the 30 this month at least in Europe. No one has this camera yet unless you live in Japan.

This article is a complete slam in the EOS R5 and R6 and I guess it´s just "hate"....We will see more coming with the approach of the A7s3.

I wont buy any opinion of this guys and I will be more than HAPPY to prove they are wrong once I have my EOS R5 in hands!

Such a stupid article....

EDIT: I put here a link to a video on youtube. A user is testing the EOS R5 overheating in 4k HQ and with HQ off continued to film normally. The video sucks but we can see that there is no problems with the camera:


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 27, 2020)

HenryL said:


> Always keep in mind that the important number for storage here is minimum sustained write speed. The write speed on the label is typically not that, it's usually a maximum burst speed, a different animal altogether. Unfortunately the minimum sustained speed is rarely found on spec lists, especially for cards that don't have a very good one.



On the Prograde website they handwave about that, paraphrasing it a bit: "Hey, the Cobalt range gets 1700MB/s write speeds and more than 400MB/s sustained".
I went with a Sony Tough 128G CFe card, I hope that's fast enough for 8k RAW. Which I'll likely use once and decide that 4k HQ is good enough


----------



## HenryL (Jul 27, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> On the Prograde website they handwave about that, paraphrasing it a bit: "Hey, the Cobalt range gets 1700MB/s write speeds and more than 400MB/s sustained".
> I went with a Sony Tough 128G CFe card, I hope that's fast enough for 8k RAW. Which I'll likely use once and decide that 4k HQ is good enough


Sorry I can't find it at the moment, but I want to say I saw a table over the weekend that included Sony cards as supporting 8K. Don't quote me on that though.  

FWIW, the ProGrade Cobalt series have a sustained write speed of 1400MB/s. The Gold is the series that has a 400MB/s sustained speed.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 27, 2020)

HenryL said:


> Sorry I can't find it at the moment, but I want to say I saw a table over the weekend that included Sony cards as supporting 8K. Don't quote me on that though.
> 
> FWIW, the ProGrade Cobalt series have a sustained write speed of 1400MB/s. The Gold is the series that has a 400MB/s sustained speed.


Canon USA has a knowledge base article for the 6k in the 1dx3, I used that to decide on the card to get. I would’ve preferred a Sandisk, but the 512G is too much after the R5 + grip being a lot more expensive than expected here in the Netherlands.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 27, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> I can be wrong (I HOPE i am not wrong....) but this can´t be right! All the reviews i am seing with "normal" users in Japan they are showing tests of the EOS R5 with no issues. Just the "normal" overheating with the recording times like the times send by Canon. So it was with total surprise that I saw this "report" from EOSHD! But.....Let´s not forget they are usually Sony fans....Northrup from the beginning just tries to discredit the R5 and now it seems they are trying the good cop, bad cop! It can be a possibility that Chelsea was working with a defective body let´s not forget those are pre-production units. No one and literally no one is pointing any issue with lagging!
> 
> About that problem pointed of the overheating all the unbiased youtube videos that I see they say what Canon says. Yes there is overheating in the camera after the times that canon says, but if you record regular 4k even after the shutdown, camera will record normally. With 4k (HQ disabled) camera records just normal!
> 
> ...


I'm of the same mind as you, I don't think there are as many issues as some of the You tubers are saying. I think under normal use eg 4k30p there are no overheating issues and let's be honest, most You tube videos are currently filmed in 1080p and are likely to continue that way for a while.

I've just watched a video by a contributor called the Ordinary Film Maker. His experience with the R5 is mainly video so doesn't match what I do which is mainly stills but it is interesting that he has used all of the video modes, including over 2 hours of 4k30p and several clips in 8K with no overheating. His main issue isn't with the camera, it's with his own computer being able to cope with the bigger files and amount of data to render before he can edit it. He confirmed he is still going ahead with his R5 order.

This guy isn't a Canon fanboy and has been quite honest about his doubts but I do think his reviews are more realistic than some of the other reviews that are a little hysterical and biased.

Overall, I've got to stop watching so many videos and make my own mind up when it arrives lol.


----------



## Go Wild (Jul 27, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I'm of the same mind as you, I don't think there are as many issues as some of the You tubers are saying. I think under normal use eg 4k30p there are no overheating issues and let's be honest, most You tube videos are currently filmed in 1080p and are likely to continue that way for a while.
> 
> I've just watched a video by a contributor called the Ordinary Film Maker. His experience with the R5 is mainly video so doesn't match what I do which is mainly stills but it is interesting that he has used all of the video modes, including over 2 hours of 4k30p and several clips in 8K with no overheating. His main issue isn't with the camera, it's with his own computer being able to cope with the bigger files and amount of data to render before he can edit it. He confirmed he is still going ahead with his R5 order.
> 
> ...




Well thats the big point here! Biased and unfair reviews! In these days it looks like so easy to criticize....I think they are making a big splash out of this and for nothing! Of course we all could wish no overheating, that was the perfect scenario. But...What could Canon do for that? To introduce a fan? Could you imagine the photographers reaction? Why the hell they would buy a bigger camera with a fan? This cameras from canon are really, really attractive to both worlds! And of course it must have some caveats...The thing is to check those caveats and to make your assessment: "Is this camera good for me or no?" After this you just buy or not! But to slam one camera just because one thing??? Ohh man....And it´s really not a big deal at least for most of the users! And if it is....either you dont buy or try to solve the problem. I read that the EOS R5 with an atomos ninja V can record 4k HQ up to 3h without overheating! So my problems are just solved!  Only need to be careful with 4k120fps.

After solving problems....You get a terrific stills camera!! You get a terrific video camera! Boy, what can you want more...? If even so....you think this camera wont fit your purposes....Well....the 1dx mkIII can solve the problems.


----------



## tron (Jul 27, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> This has been true of Canon cameras for years. Tony Northrup said the AF is now "better than Sony" which was probably the only lingering question for stills shooters moving to mirrorless. (And for him to say that you know it's good.) What other questions are there?
> 
> High ISO? Dominated by photon shot noise which is not subject to tech. There's about a 1ev difference between the worst and best FF sensors of the past decade, and the R5 will be near the top (best) of that. So comparable to a 5D4 or 1DX3, and about 0.5ev - 0.66ev better than the 5Ds/sR.
> 
> ...


And he would be right to do so! Attached is a screenshot courtesy of DPREVIEW comparisons.


----------



## tron (Jul 27, 2020)

But yes on principle I agree that ALL mentioned Canon cameras will just work!

This is the way Canon cameras are made.


----------



## AlanF (Jul 27, 2020)

tron said:


> And he would be right to do so! Attached is a screenshot courtesy of DPREVIEW comparisons.


The R5 would be good enough for me - 45 Mpx is a nice compromise between huge file sizes and resolution. From what I can see from the dpr comparisons and elsewhere, the 5DSR and Nikon D850/Z7 are very close together in resolution, and sightly better than the R5. I agree with dstaylor that the R5 does the tracking for you but doing it yourself is a proven approach that also works.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 27, 2020)

HenryL said:


> Always keep in mind that the important number for storage here is minimum sustained write speed. The write speed on the label is typically not that, it's usually a maximum burst speed, a different animal altogether. Unfortunately the minimum sustained speed is rarely found on spec lists, especially for cards that don't have a very good one.


ProGrade Cobalt 325GB; Lexar 256 and 128 GB cards.
Max speed, size, avg speed
600MB/s Gold 120GB => Avg 145MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 256GB => 350MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 512GB-1T => 500MB/s
1400MB/s Cobalt 325GB => 1300MB/s
The avg to max speed difference is huge from 25% to 50% for gold but cobalt is pretty close to max. Only the Cobalt is approved for use on 1DXiii

Sandisk write speeds with no mention of sustained/average speed! link is:
shop.westerndigital.com/products/memory-cards/sandisk-extreme-pro-cfexpress-type-b#SDCFE-064G-ANCIN
64GB 800 MB/s
128/256GB 1200 MB/s
512GB 1400 MB/s

Lexar. I can't find a datasheet for them... only 64GB — 512GB Up to 1750MB/s read, up to 1000MB/s write.
If Lexar 128/256GB cards are okay for the 1DXiii (assumed) 1000MB/s then why aren't the Sandisk 128/256GB included?

Sony Tough 128/256GB up to 1480MB/s
=> I can't imagine Canon approving a Sony card publicly


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 28, 2020)

HenryL said:


> Sorry I can't find it at the moment, but I want to say I saw a table over the weekend that included Sony cards as supporting 8K. Don't quote me on that though.
> 
> FWIW, the ProGrade Cobalt series have a sustained write speed of 1400MB/s. The Gold is the series that has a 400MB/s sustained speed.


Minor correction... cobalt is 1400MB/s but average speed is 1300MB/s as per their spec sheet which is close to max speed. Gold average speeds are significantly slower than max speed.
600MB/s Gold 120GB => Avg 145MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 256GB => 350MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 512GB-1T => 500MB/s

The Sony CFe card states 1480MB/s max write speed but I can't see a spec sheet for average speed for them. I'm going to wait until Canon releases a list of supported CFe cards before buying but it seems unlikely to me that Canon will publicly authorise a Sony card.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 28, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> [..]
> => I can't imagine Canon approving a Sony card publicly



Well, enjoy the sight of flying pigs: https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/in...earch&viewlocale=en_US&searchid=1595914608082


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 28, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Well, enjoy the sight of flying pigs: https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/in...earch&viewlocale=en_US&searchid=1595914608082
> View attachment 191615


Oink, oink! Glad to see both an updated list and Canon not being precious about Sony products 
All we need now is a list for the R5. Should be available prior to collection of the R5 though


----------



## SpaceGhost1969 (Jul 29, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> At this point it looks like Canon could release an R5c with a fan, double the price, and people would still love it and buy it


I agree! I love my dependable 1DC! It just works and works and works... Cinema looking 4K all day long.


----------



## SpaceGhost1969 (Jul 29, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> Hahahaha it looks like they are holding some sort of blue ice pack on the camera and they are using a leaf blower. Hahahaha. I’ll stick with my c200 and 1dc’s


The leaf blower killed me!


----------



## DTCOM (Jul 30, 2020)

The image quality is absolutely stunning! Let's hope we get a solution for that overheating sooner than later.


----------

