# 5d3 vs. 7D2 as general use body



## Rupp1 (Dec 1, 2015)

I am suffering buyer's remorse, and the cameras haven't even arrived yet. Just as background, I have shot Canon for years, 35mm and then digital beginning with the D30 (not 30D, D30 with 6 megapixels). I sold most of my old bodies last year, and worked with just the 1D X. I like high detail sharp pictures. I have tried the Sony a7R (which I hated), and the a7II, which I'm not crazy about either. I'm sticking with Canon despite complaints that the company is falling behind its competition (also, my lens collection is extensive).

OK, so to take advantage of rebates, I ordered a 5DS-r yesterday, for myself as a companion to the 1DX. I hope to use it for portraits, weddings, and landscapes. My wife, who wants to get more serious with her photography, needs something better than a point and shoot, and why shouldn't she share my lenses? So, I ordered a 7D2 for her to use. She likes photographing flowers, and hopes to enter garden photography competitions. I figured that she might like the 1.6 crop as it would get her closer to her subjects, is not looking to blow up to 30x20, and the 7D2 is less than the 5D3. One other note, she grew up using 35mm SLRs and is not a stranger to photography. Should I have bought the 5D3 for her? I don't want to be cheap. But I don't want to spend twice as much on a camera that is about to be replaced.

Thanks for any input. I also realize the potential irony here, since the 7D2 may be a good back up to a 1Dx, while I may find that the 5DS-r is so finicky that I just spent a bunch for a camera I might end up hating.


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## bdunbar79 (Dec 1, 2015)

You're fine! Relax! You have a 1Dx, 5DsR, and a 7D2. What could be to complain about? No I think for what she wants to do a 7D2 is just fine. And you can steal it once in awhile too!


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## takesome1 (Dec 1, 2015)

For the price the 7D II is a great camera. Full Frame is always better and it depends on her skill level. If she doesn't know she needs a full frame camera then most likely she doesn't.

Besides you own both the 1Dx and 5Ds R. Both are great bodies. Are you going to shoot one from the hip and one from eye level? Do you have a holster so you can carry both at once? You share your lenses but not the bodies?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 1, 2015)

Both are likely overkill for what you are doing, and might frustrate you with all the settings intended for experienced users.

They should be just fine for general use cameras. Don't expect to see pixel sharp images until you learn how to use the cameras, but the images will always come out very sharp for ordinary sized prints or displays.

Getting the ultimate resolution from high MP bodies does take some care in using extremely stable heads and tripods, or alternatively, very high shutter speeds. If you are having a issue with sharpness, take some photos carefully with 1/2000 shutter speeds and stop down your lens to f/5.6. This may require you to be in outdoor sunny light, but it will confirm to you that your camera is capable of very sharp images.

If the photos are not sharp, place the camera in live view on a tripod, use live autofocus (Do not use quick AF). Keep the shutter speed high. --- If the photos are now sharp, your camera needs to have a autofocus micro adjustment (AFMA) for each of your lenses. That's a different subject, but all new camera - lens combinations need to be checked for fine AF adjustment.


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## sunnyVan (Dec 1, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Both are likely overkill for what you are doing, and might frustrate you with all the settings intended for experienced users.
> 
> They should be just fine for general use cameras. Don't expect to see pixel sharp images until you learn how to use the cameras, but the images will always come out very sharp for ordinary sized prints or displays.
> 
> ...



+1 Massive overkill. Can't see how she can benefit from the high frame rate or build quality. 

My wife often complains that the 5d feels too heavy. So weight should be one of the considerations when buying a camera for a lady. If not shooting something that moves fast the M 3 is quite nice. Or get 70D if she prefers handling a larger body. 7d series is a specialty camera built for speed. 5d is better for general purpose. Don't worry about it being replaced soon because the new one most definitely will cost upward of $3000, 50% more than mk3, and the mk4 cannot possibly be 50% better.


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## Sporgon (Dec 1, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Both are likely overkill for what you are doing, and might frustrate you with all the settings intended for experienced users.



Agreed, I'd have gone for a 6D


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 1, 2015)

For macro photography, which his wife intends to do, the 70D articulated LCD would be perfect. Other than that, 7D Mark II should perfectly suit your needs.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 1, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> You're fine! Relax! You have a 1Dx, 5DsR, and a 7D2. What could be to complain about? No I think for what she wants to do a 7D2 is just fine. And you can steal it once in awhile too!


Yes, it never occurred to me that the camera might end up being used by me. ;D Hence my willingness to engage in overkill. I like to print big, have very good lenses, and don't like to buy cameras that I wouldn't own. I'll take the dollar hit. 

Other responders have raised some very helpful points. The suggestions regarding high MP cameras are well taken, but I would at least mention that I am an experienced shooter. 5.6 @1/2000 seems pretty extreme. Wouldn't 4 times focal length be sufficient? What if longer DOF is desired? [sorry, off topic a little].

To sunnyVan: the M3 does look interesting but requires lenses which I don't have. I own a Sony a7R which I don't like, and an a7II that I'm not crazy about. I was tempted to try the a7RII but except for the 55mm, I have found the Sony lenses to be mediocre, and am not crazy about focus through an EVF. But who knows, I'm getting old and lazy. I'll stick with Canon for a while, and hope that I won't have to replace my whole system in the next few years. 

My first camera was a Rolliflex, which I used with a GE light meter. I could handle that. I can handle using filters. But I am getting sick of learning too many menus and buttons, a new one with each camera. I'm sick of replacing bodies on a regular basis. Your comments, which are well thought out and appreciated, are making me wonder if I should get the Hassies back out and shoot film (doubtful but sad), or just get one of those little cameras with a fixed 35mm equivalent lens. Maybe?

By the way, if any of you think that the Sony a7RII is a better hand shooting camera than the 5ds-r, let me know. Thanks.


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## ejenner (Dec 8, 2015)

One thing about the 7DII is that although she can share your lenses, there are also a number of decent and relatively inexpensive EF-S lenses that might suit her.

If it is not too heavy.


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## unfocused (Dec 8, 2015)

The 7DII is a great all-around body. Sure, it is optimized for sports and wildlife, but that takes nothing away from its value as an all purposed body. Pair it with the 100 mm macro "L" IS and it will be great for her floral photography.

You say she is not looking to enlarge to 30x20, but the 7DII is certainly capable of enlarging to at least that size. She may be shocked at how great one of her flower pictures looks blown up to 30x20, matted, framed and hanging over the fireplace. I hope you have a healthy sense of security, because you might find yourself a little jealous when her pictures look better than yours (wives have a tendency to do that).

I would suggest investing in one wide EF-S to complete the kit. I'm a big fan of the 15-85, but honestly, the new 18-135 STM is cheap and a good performer as well.

In the long run, overbuying any camera is always cheaper than underbuying. The 7DII will allow her to grow and she can learn the more complex features over time. No one starts out knowing everything.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 8, 2015)

Thank you for the very reasonable and helpful responses to a rather amorphous question. I confess to being a little partial to the 7dII over a 5d3, if only because I can always share any of my other Canon bodies and lenses. The 7D2 will also be happier with some of my lenses, like the 24-105 f4L, which have become questionable with the 5Ds-R. A also admit a prejudice toward buying a newer model.

Now, my question shifts to, do we need another Canon body or just share the ones I have, or share a basic Sony A7II body (heresy). Again, thanks.


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## Valvebounce (Dec 8, 2015)

Hi unfocused. 
I'm hoping the 7DII is a great all around body! I'm getting one. I would agree with you on wives, they do that! ;D I would question the wide lens suggestion, 15mm on crop is equivalent to 24 on FF and I don't think that is considered wide. 18mm on crop is 29mm on FF. 
I would whole heartily suggest EF-S 10-22mm, I got one in September and it really is a good lens, I hired one a couple of years ago and sorta wanted one since, when this one came along I bought it and wish I'd bought earlier, I use it more than I thought. 

Cheers, Graham. 



unfocused said:


> The 7DII is a great all-around body.
> 
> I would suggest investing in one wide EF-S to complete the kit. I'm a big fan of the 15-85, but honestly, the new 18-135 STM is cheap and a good performer as well.
> 
> In the long run, overbuying any camera is always cheaper than underbuying. The 7DII will allow her to grow and she can learn the more complex features over time. No one starts out knowing everything.


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## dak723 (Dec 9, 2015)

I do a lot of flower photography. I know others will disagree, but the crop camera is FAR better for that type of work due to the wider DOF and reach. Bought a 6D a couple years ago to replace my 300D. Ended up buying an SL1 to do the flower photography. So crop was the right choice in my book.


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## gregorywood (Dec 9, 2015)

Rupp1 said:


> I am suffering buyer's remorse, and the cameras haven't even arrived yet. Just as background, I have shot Canon for years, 35mm and then digital beginning with the D30 (not 30D, D30 with 6 megapixels). I sold most of my old bodies last year, and worked with just the 1D X. I like high detail sharp pictures. I have tried the Sony a7R (which I hated), and the a7II, which I'm not crazy about either. I'm sticking with Canon despite complaints that the company is falling behind its competition (also, my lens collection is extensive).
> 
> OK, so to take advantage of rebates, I ordered a 5DS-r yesterday, for myself as a companion to the 1DX. I hope to use it for portraits, weddings, and landscapes. My wife, who wants to get more serious with her photography, needs something better than a point and shoot, and why shouldn't she share my lenses? So, I ordered a 7D2 for her to use. She likes photographing flowers, and hopes to enter garden photography competitions. I figured that she might like the 1.6 crop as it would get her closer to her subjects, is not looking to blow up to 30x20, and the 7D2 is less than the 5D3. One other note, she grew up using 35mm SLRs and is not a stranger to photography. Should I have bought the 5D3 for her? I don't want to be cheap. But I don't want to spend twice as much on a camera that is about to be replaced.
> 
> Thanks for any input. I also realize the potential irony here, since the 7D2 may be a good back up to a 1Dx, while I may find that the 5DS-r is so finicky that I just spent a bunch for a camera I might end up hating.



These are truly problems of the first world! I mean that with no sarcasm or malcontent...just problems I wish I had. 
;-)


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## old-pr-pix (Dec 9, 2015)

+1 for the EF-S 15-85 as a fantastic general purpose lens. However, it has one drawback when it comes to floral photography - it suffers from significant zoom creep. Shooting flowers often requires a downward angle for the best view. Pointed downward my copy of the lens needs to be held in place or it will not just creep, but slide rapidly toward the 85 mm position. The 24-105 is much better in that regard although it will creep slightly. I prefer the 100 L macro for flowers -- it avoids any zoom creep issues totally.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Dec 9, 2015)

The 5D3 aNd 7D2 are all u need
1st pic is 5D3

_X7A3143-1 by Big Ant TV Media LLC, on Flickr
7D2

9W9A3605-1 by Big Ant TV Media LLC, on Flickr


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## Ozarker (Dec 9, 2015)

gregorywood said:


> Rupp1 said:
> 
> 
> > I am suffering buyer's remorse, and the cameras haven't even arrived yet. Just as background, I have shot Canon for years, 35mm and then digital beginning with the D30 (not 30D, D30 with 6 megapixels). I sold most of my old bodies last year, and worked with just the 1D X. I like high detail sharp pictures. I have tried the Sony a7R (which I hated), and the a7II, which I'm not crazy about either. I'm sticking with Canon despite complaints that the company is falling behind its competition (also, my lens collection is extensive).
> ...



;D Yes, tragic.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 10, 2015)

> These are truly problems of the first world! I mean that with no sarcasm or malcontent...just problems I wish I had.
> ;-)





> ;D Yes, tragic.



Sorry, I'll try and come up with something more socially redeeming for you, . Are you sure you were looking for a camera forum?


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## scottkinfw (Dec 10, 2015)

My 2 cents, you are fine.

You can always lend her one of your cameras. In the mean time, even if she was proficient with a film camera, she still has a lot to re-learn, and the 7DII is an excellent camera (don't have one myself). 

At some point, you may want to go with a 5D4 or 5D3, even refurb. It's all good.

sek


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## sanjosedave (Dec 10, 2015)

Return the 7DII and re-buy it using this, or one like it, promotion: 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1176700-REG/canon_eos_7d_mark_ii.html

Or, negotiate with your dealer to get the deal.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 10, 2015)

sanjosedave said:


> Return the 7DII and re-buy it using this, or one like it, promotion:
> 
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1176700-REG/canon_eos_7d_mark_ii.html
> 
> Or, negotiate with your dealer to get the deal.



Thanks Dave, that was a nice thought.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 10, 2015)

*Change: 6D vs. 7DII*

OK, you guys have convinced me that there is little point, right now, in adding a 5dIII. Given that my wife swears that she really isn't interested in wide angle as a general rule. I can let her use my 24-105 f4L (which canon seems to think is less than optimal for the 5DS-r) or the 16-35 f2.8 LII, so maybe the 7DII with it's more recent features is all around better than the 6D. I doubt that she wants to go bigger than 16x20. Full frame has been the dream for a while, I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes here. So, clearly, I'm leaning to the 7DII, especially since it may actually have a resale value. Unlike me, my spouse just wants a tool to use that will help her shoot the image she wants-what a novel concept.

How wrong can I be on 7DII over 6D?

Warning: attempt at humor follows. ;D And, yes, I recognize that this is a first world problem when my OCD doesn't have me hyper focused on camera selection and ignoring a volatile stock market, and crazy religious people (all religions) with guns and bombs. Oh wait...does that mean only 1DXs are OK where you have to photograph in combat or natural disasters? Here I go obsessing again. Damn.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 14, 2015)

OK, I'm down to making a decision. It is between the 7D2 and the 5D3. $1299 vs. $2149 (with rebate for a printer that gets given away because I don't want it- plus hassle of submitting forms for rebate). Aside from cost difference, which isn't my main consideration, could it be that the 7D2 is a better general use camera for people and non-wide landscape shooting. Particularly, how will the 7D2 do with 100mm and 180mm macros?

My personal preference is for FF, simply because I like the shallower DoF, like to blow up large prints, and am used to a 50mm being 50mm (it's how I learned). Perhaps the 70D2 is just as good for this use =, and I am prejudiced. I also like the idea of learning to use a better auto focus system than the one on the 6D.

Anyway, thanks for tolerating my meanderings. Given my current camera and lens collection, a full frame is always available. For now, if anyone has any reason (like micro sucks on the 7D2) not to get the cropped sensor please let me know-soon.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 14, 2015)

dak723 said:


> I do a lot of flower photography. I know others will disagree, but the crop camera is FAR better for that type of work due to the wider DOF and reach. Bought a 6D a couple years ago to replace my 300D. Ended up buying an SL1 to do the flower photography. So crop was the right choice in my book.



+1. I've got the same experience. I've given my 500D to my father and replaced it with a 6D. 6D is a lot better most of the time but I really miss my 500D as I can frame easier using it for macros. I ended up giving my father my S100 (since he does not like taking big DSLR with him) and getting back my 500D.


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## Ozarker (Dec 15, 2015)

Rupp1 said:


> > These are truly problems of the first world! I mean that with no sarcasm or malcontent...just problems I wish I had.
> > ;-)
> 
> 
> ...



I think you are taking these two comments and yourself a little too seriously.  Lighten up.


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## martti (Dec 15, 2015)

Maybe the 5Dr is too finicky, that is a possibility. It might also blow your mind with the unbelievable resolution and detail it offers after you have crawled up the learning curve. 

Chances that you end up hating it look fairly slim.

As for the 7DII, somebody photographing flowers that are growing on the ground might appreciate a focusing screen that you can flip to any position. In which case the 70D would be a better idea with all its limitations compared to the 7DII which seems to be aimed more at action photography. Of course you can shoot tethered with the 7DII. Sky is not the limit.


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## stefsan (Dec 15, 2015)

I would say that owning a 7DII is never to be regretted. It is a very versatile and capable camera with brilliant ergonomics. Compared to a full frame camera, there will be some areas the 7DII's crop sensor lags behind, but the over-all-picture-quality of the 7DII is rather impressive.


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## greger (Dec 15, 2015)

Your wife should be fine with the 7D 2. Having 3 Custom settings on the program dial will be better than 1 on the 70D. She will be able to take spectacular flower pics. If she has to get the camera close to the ground there are many ways to do this. People have been doing this for years before articulating screens came out. I have my 3 custom settings almost filled up 1- BIF, 2 - Flash and 3 will be for HDR. I bought my wife a 70D because she had an Olympus C7070 with an articulating screen. We go out together and take pics locally. She has used my 70-200 f4 IS and likes it. She wants to use my 100 f2.8. Macro next spring. She has pics of close up bees and a dragon fly that I would have liked to have taken. Good Luck with your new cameras and post some pics and let us know how you two are making out with your new cameras. I have to go and wash the green off my face.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm still leery of the 7DII as being a specialized sports and nature body which doesn't feel general use-ish to me (in my heart, I know everyone wants to experiment with wider angles . I'm a little leery of the 5DIII because I hate buying a camera just before it gets replaced. Also, and I apologize for not mentioning this sooner, I have an extensive collection of L glass which I fear would be better on the 5D, especially on the wide side. Maybe FanBoy had one fair point about my taking this too seriously. In the scheme of things, the cost difference between the two cameras is half the price of a new lens, more or less (just look at that 600 f4L). Or, perhaps the best bet is to wait for new body announcements; indecision may be a decision. 

My cogitation continues, silly as it is. OCD is a handicap until it's time to print.


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## Jopa (Dec 15, 2015)

Silly question! Sounds like you don't love your wife anymore  Why not to buy her another 5ds r w/ Sigma 180mm f/2.8 APO OS Macro if she likes flowers?


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## monkey44 (Dec 15, 2015)

I shoot sports/nature/wildlife/travel with 5DM3 and 7D2 ... and 16/35 - 24/105 - 70/200 f4 IS- 100/400 v2 ... 

If I had to choose ONE, I'd choose the 5DM3, but I'm really, really glad I don't have to make that choice. The 5DM3 is very versatile, but the 7D2 can't be matched for sports and birds. But, you can shoot the full-frame 5DM3 with the 100/400 and Ext 1.5 very nicely as well. If the price suits you, wait for the next release of the 5D series, but its been generally true that each jump is a small improvement, and it takes several jumps before it really makes a big enough quality difference to justify the cost difference. So, at the price now, 5DM3 makes a lot of sense with the lenses you have.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 15, 2015)

Jopa said:


> Silly question! Sounds like you don't love your wife anymore  Why not to buy her another 5ds r w/ Sigma 180mm f/2.8 APO OS Macro if she likes flowers?



You know, I almost answered that comment seriously. 

One ads r is probably enough around here for now-she can borrow it. I guess my Canon 180mm macro was a waste of money? 

Should I start another topic on whether it's too late in the cycle to buy a 5DIII ? I've got lenses to go long, but I don't want to buy S lenses to go wide. Looks like monkey44 has commented on that as I type. Hmmm, do I know anyone who wants a Canon pima 100 for the holidays? 

Edit: I see that refurbished 5dIIIs are available at Canon. Are they guaranteed good as new?


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## ksgal (Dec 15, 2015)

As the owner of a 7DII that uses it for EVERYTHING.. I love it. love the af, love the spread of points, love the DOF when I still need to shoot wide for low light. I do have a ff, 5DII, and I don't open the 5DII files and ooh and ahh at how much better they are than the 7DII.. in fact they are remarkably similar, for cropability, and the color on the 7DII at higher iso trades off the more grain I may get. There are times I need that 10 fps, and need the anti flickr, and maybe if I had a both a 5DIII and 7DII I'd feel different, but I can tell you I'm going to sell the 5DII and pick up either a used 5DIII or get another 7DII. 

People say "sports and wildlife" about that camera like it's its only option, and I'm here to say it is also a great all around camera, and other than the 70D having a flip out screen, I can't think of another canon crop that has something I'd want on the camera. I shoot quite a bit in the studio, and like the faster sync for flash vs the 1/125 on the 5DII. Also like the piece of mind that if I want to go shoot out in some weather, I really don't care, and know the camera can take it (within reason). Proper exposure is the key to the sensor, but it is remarkably flexible, and miles above any other crop sensor I've used.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 15, 2015)

KSGal, it is nice to hear your enthusiasm about the 7DII. I can't think of another crop I'd like better either, but then I am questioning the crop format. In the studio, I can live with syncing at 200 (5D3 and ads-r).I am curious about what lenses you prefer in a studio? Keep in mind that lenses are community property. I currently own no EF-S glass.


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## monkey44 (Dec 15, 2015)

Edit: I see that refurbished 5dIIIs are available at Canon. Are they guaranteed good as new?
[/quote]

I've bought several refurbished items at Canon (7D and 60D) - for family members. Never a single problem, and Canon provides the same one-year warranty as a new unit. You almost can't go wrong with factory refurbished for the bucks you spend.


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## LovePhotography (Dec 15, 2015)

I have a 6D, a 7D2 and a T5i. I shoot lots of things, all the time and have for 30 years.
For my money, just my $0.02.... for a lady (less forearm strength) I'd buy a 6D for full frame or a T6i for crop body. I think both have better sensors than their respective competition, the 5D3 and the 7D2. Even if the 7D2 sensor is just as good, it's more expensive, heavier, and has a lot of feature you don't need. I use my 6D the most, my T5i second most, and my 7D2 the least (long reach or sports only). Based on the specs and the published performance data, I think the T6i is a real sleeper- great little camera.
Pax.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 16, 2015)

Thanks LovePhotography for the thoughts on the 7DII being for sport and speed. The lady in question thought that my 1DX had "a nice solid feel". She might not want to shoot hand held with the 500 F4L if she could help it, but weight isn't an issue. If traveling light, there is always the sony, or even the little Fuji x100S which reminds me of the old days when I was learning ( 60's). 

Anyway, enough said on weight. Comes down to crop or not? Obsolescence or not? More of less $$? Best fit with existing lenses? 

Again, that was a very considerate thought. I looked into the T5 and it seems an excellent camera.


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## LovePhotography (Dec 16, 2015)

Rupp1 said:


> Thanks LovePhotography for the thoughts on the 7DII being for sport and speed. The lady in question thought that my 1DX had "a nice solid feel". She might not want to shoot hand held with the 500 F4L if she could help it, but weight isn't an issue. If traveling light, there is always the sony, or even the little Fuji x100S which reminds me of the old days when I was learning ( 60's).
> 
> Anyway, enough said on weight. Comes down to crop or not? Obsolescence or not? More of less $$? Best fit with existing lenses?
> 
> Again, that was a very considerate thought. I looked into the T5 and it seems an excellent camera.



My favorite Canon camera is the 6D. Crazy good (and even better considering the price). And, I know people will disagree strongly, but I like the layout of the buttons on the back better than on the 5D3 or 7D2. That being said, I'm planning to get a 5D4 when the price hysteria dies down some. And possibly a 5DsR, which I consider to be a 6D with 50 MP instead of 20 MP. And, I'm gonna get an LG 4k OLED EG 9500 flat 65 inch screen after the price drops in the Spring to f*ckin' amaze myself with my camera's quality! To heck with TV- don't watch it. 
Me? I would go 6D full frame, and for $300 buy a 1.4 extender that effectively turns it into a crop sensor to use as necessary. You can always go longer with a 1.4 or 2.0 teleconvertor, but you can't go wider when you've got a crop sensor without major distortion. And the 1.4 TCiii doesn't mess up your resolution much more than the sensor on a 7D2 does when compared with the 6D.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 16, 2015)

yes, that's sort of where I'm heading. Especially since I have all the extenders etc. already. Just have to feel good about a possibly obsolete camera, monetarily and in terms of software. The upgrades don't come after the new model comes out. Hope it doesn't need any more. I don't think that I have much more that I can add at present.

Thanks to all who have tried to help


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## verysimplejason (Dec 16, 2015)

Jopa said:


> Silly question! Sounds like you don't love your wife anymore  Why not to buy her another 5ds r w/ Sigma 180mm f/2.8 APO OS Macro if she likes flowers?



Weight?


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## Rupp1 (Dec 16, 2015)

verysimplejason said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > Silly question! Sounds like you don't love your wife anymore  Why not to buy her another 5ds r w/ Sigma 180mm f/2.8 APO OS Macro if she likes flowers?
> ...



Wait!


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## awair (Dec 18, 2015)

I agree with several of the other posters that the 7D2 is really a specialised sports camera. (Fast frame rate and excessively detailed AF options - if you don't use those, how about the 70D?)

If cost is an issue, choose the 6D, otherwise the 5D3 - both will give better quality images, at the expense of the reach of the crop cameras.

For my photography, I have always preferred telephoto type subjects, rather than wide-angle. That's why I have been reluctant to move to full-frame. If that is similar to your position then the crop camera may be preferred, otherwise for equivalent price I would choose the 6D over the 7D2 for a new purchase, for quality.

As always, the lens makes the real difference.


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## SUNDOG04 (Dec 18, 2015)

If going full frame, I would say get a 6D. The simplicity of the camera, light weight, compactness, and cost over a 5DIII may be an advantage for general photography and the savings would go a long way in purchasing a 100 macro lens.

Or, possibly a 70D instead of a 7DII for the reasons I mention above. The 60 macro lens would be even more compact but when I used the 100 macro with a 40D, I much preferred using it over the 50 compact macro for narrowing the angle of the background when doing macro photography.

I would not rule out an SL1, which may be much preferred to carry around after being used to a point and shoot. The cost of that body is very reasonable.

I would not rule out the importance of compacteness and portability as opposed to a larger and more sophisticated body. It should be her decision.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 18, 2015)

OK, with the various holidays, the solstice, lousy daylight, and people scurrying everywhere trying to complete personal and financial tasks before year end...I figured I should at least make and announce my decision. Before I begin, I want to thank all of you for taking the time, and lending your expertise, to help. I'd also like to thank the-digital-picture, whose staff was kind enough to offer advice as well. I'd also like to thank..... ;D

OK, I returned the 7D2, and purchased a 5D3. The best deal included a printer that I don't need or want, but comes with a hard to refuse price of -$350, after rebate. (I use Epson printers with ImagePrint software and have no desire to change). 

Why the 5D3? I concluded that it was the best all around body. The 5DS-R requires a great deal of additional thought to be an all-around. The 6D lacks some of the (possibly unnecessary) bells and whistles of the 5D3 but when my wife learns the 5D3, she will be able to use any top of the line Canon with a minimal extra learning curve, and I think the 5d3 is good enough that it will be useful for years even if it is late in the cycle. And, well, I tend to have a lot of those bodies around. Frankly, I find it interesting that the "learning curve" these days has far less to do with basic photographic principals (shutter speed, aperture, ISO, subject), than it does with mastering hardware and especially software. Nevertheless, it's where we are. I also think that the lenses I have on hand, including extras, are well suited to the 5D3 (and less suited to the 5DS-R). Of course, I have that the battery grip for the 5D3 is the same as the 5DS-R's, or that one RRS bracket for camera and grip will be enough. 

Why not the 7D2? Well, I think it is best suited as a sports and wildlife camera where speed and reach are paramount concerns. I also think that if I were starting from scratch, it could be a great all-around camera, because there is good glass available for less money, if you have a cropped sensor. Let's face it, the 7D2 is 2/3 the price (a cropped price camera too?), and currently a damned good value. It has great auto-focus, but the 5D-3 is no slouch. My wife likes plants, but this includes gardens and landscapes, which might benefit from wider lenses. She also shoots general people shots, inside shots, and even some low light. In the end, I just don't see the 7D2 as the ideal general purpose camera.

I appreciate all of the concern about camera weight and carry-ability. It certainly is a valid concern (sometimes, as much for me when a pinched nerve acts up). Since my wife does not read camera forums, I can tell you here that she has been doing some really nice stuff with the little Fujifilm x-20 that she keeps with her. I have also gotten her a Fujifilm X-30, which replaces a terrible optical viewfinder with a decent EVF-so she can always have a camera with her. It's an awesome little point and shoot. 

So, thanks again. Perhaps she'll get a chance to put some of her stuff on line post-holidays and you can see how this works out. And, who knows, depending on what happens with the 1DX line, there may be a place sometime for the 7D2 in the stable. But for now, there's no room at the inn for the 7D2. May you all have a scintillating Solstice, and a Happy New Year.


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## FTb-n (Dec 18, 2015)

Thanks for the update. As King of the Crop World, the 7D2 is certainly a capable body for general use photography. But, FF is addicting. It tends to make us pixel picky about details. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if your stable becomes home to a 1Dx in the future. 

Oh, you are absolutely right about learning curve. These bodies are imaging computers and the more comfortable one is with the user interface and features of the body, the more one can exploit them -- and get out of a mess from accidentally changing the wrong setting.

Enjoy the 5D3!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 18, 2015)

Rupp1 said:


> OK, I'm down to making a decision. It is between the 7D2 and the 5D3. $1299 vs. $2149 (with rebate for a printer that gets given away because I don't want it- plus hassle of submitting forms for rebate). Aside from cost difference, which isn't my main consideration, could it be that the 7D2 is a better general use camera for people and non-wide landscape shooting. Particularly, how will the 7D2 do with 100mm and 180mm macros?
> 
> My personal preference is for FF, simply because I like the shallower DoF, like to blow up large prints, and am used to a 50mm being 50mm (it's how I learned). Perhaps the 70D2 is just as good for this use =, and I am prejudiced. I also like the idea of learning to use a better auto focus system than the one on the 6D.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for tolerating my meanderings. Given my current camera and lens collection, a full frame is always available. For now, if anyone has any reason (like micro sucks on the 7D2) not to get the cropped sensor please let me know-soon.



Since you already have a D1 X, why not wait another month and see what the replacement model looks like. You might want to upgrade. I'd not buy a new 5D III right now unless I really needed a camera, a 7D MK II is pretty safe, but you may really have buyers remorse when you see the new D1X replacement.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 18, 2015)

FTb-n said:


> Oh, you are absolutely right about learning curve. These bodies are imaging computers and the more comfortable one is with the user interface and features of the body, the more one can exploit them -- and get out of a mess from accidentally changing the wrong setting.
> 
> Enjoy the 5D3!





Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Since you already have a D1 X, why not wait another month and see what the replacement model looks like. You might want to upgrade. I'd not buy a new 5D III right now unless I really needed a camera, a 7D MK II is pretty safe, but you may really have buyers remorse when you see the new D1X replacement.



Mt Spokane, I'm sure the replacement model will look good, and might even be great, but I'll be OK. After having owned all but one 1 Series Canon since the 1Ds, I have done my share of upgrading to new models. I have also done my share of waiting for the first bugs, the first firmware updates, and the surprises-not to mention the non-availability of advice. For this reason, I am comfortable not trying to grab one of the first models of anything (the 5DS-R, well, it may well turn out that I should have waited, but good so far). I guess that I'll either wait, or I won't, but one body now won't make a difference. I suspect that all of these bodies are more than good enough for now. Besides, the 5D3 is for my wife, the camera is all around awesome, and she just wants to take pictures, not compare gear (which you think I could have learned by now). She will have access to my experience with similar cameras, books by experts in their second editions, and access to great advice on-line. 



FT, thank you for the thought. How I wish I could leave it at that. I wanted to answer Spokane first but BAD NEWS: the saga, however will drag on for at least a couple of days  :'( Guess what, the 5DIII was effectively DOA. Being a cynical paranoid, I sat with my wife, opened the box and removed just the body and eyepiece. I put in a charged battery, cards which I formatted, and put the 24-105 f4 IS II on the camera. "Sorry, but the camera cannot communicate with the lens, clean the contacts". Well, the contacts are fine. I tried two other lenses which also had "communication" issues. All the lenses worked fine on the 5DS-r. I called CPS thinking that perhaps the new batteries LP-E6N are not backwards compatible. CPS says that they are, and that at CPS they use them interchangeably. CPS also confirmed DOA. 

At 10:00 AM EST Sunday Morning, I'll be on the horn to B&H customer service. Since Canon was kind enough to offer to pay me $350 to take a printer I didn't want, I'm hoping that B&H will just accept the return on the camera and send another. The printer is heavy. B&H's service has always been awesome, so I expect that they will make the exchange as easy and painless as possible. Still, no 5DIII for mywife for holiday parties. This is the first time that I have ever had a problem with a bad Canon product, and B&H is great too; this is just really lousy frikkin' luck. I needed to bitch. I'm sure that when a working camera gets here, we will be very happy. AARRRGH!

PS- Yes, I checked the firmware and it is the most current version. ;D


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## Rupp1 (Dec 20, 2015)

Sunday–just before noon. B&H customer service helpful as always. Just need to return the camera body, not the 50 pounds of "special package". I have every reason to hope that I'll have a working 5D3 for my spouse within a few days, and anticipate excellent handling from B&H. Then, I can report to you on the success of the gift, and complete the simple (hopefully) paperwork for the printer rebate. 

Note: I don't make a habit of gushing over retailers, or product providers, but I really do want to give an extra shout out to B&H. They have provided me with excellent service for over 20 years.


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## snapper37 (Dec 30, 2015)

I would love to have the 5D iii, but as most of my photography is macro, much of it at ground level, I am using the 70D because the moveable LCD is so helpful. Is there any likelihood of this type of screen appearing on a future version of the 5D (or even the 6D) ?


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## Rupp1 (Dec 30, 2015)

Thank you, Snapper, for reminding me that I promised an update:

5DIII arrived, functions perfectly. My wife is using the camera during the day (although the weather has now returned to its usual state of total suck), and reading the manual after dark. Thanks to everyone again, and thanks to B&H.


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