# Canon 7D mk ii or Canon 5D mk iii which is better all around camera?



## intown (Dec 8, 2014)

Hi All,

Perhaps this has been asked before, if so please point me in the right direction. I looked and did not find the comparison that fit my needs.

Which do you think is a better all around camera? 7D mark III or 5D mark III


I know this answer varies on situation, so here is what I am working with.


Can only get one
Price is not a major factor (since they are getting closer in price)
Camera will be used to create basic videos for the web Think quality business video and youtube product reviews
I am a Web Designer / Developer 1st / Photographer 2nd. Occasionally I take photos for clients, if it is real high end stuff they hire a professional photographer
Family Camera. (Two kids 3 & 6 who play soccer, basketball, dance, go fun places, etc...)
Maybe set up some simple video stuff with kids
I am a former college newspaper photographer who enjoys carrying a camera and taking all kinds of shots.


I currently have a 60D with a few lenses including 70-200 f/2.8L IS version 2

Now that the 5d3 prices are dropping I was thinking of getting a 5d3 (I have always wanted one), as I researched it looks like the 7D2 might be a better fit.

To me it looks like if I go with the 7D2, I will be giving up a full frame and better low light images (not to say that the 7d2 has poor low light functionality) 

Full frame might not be a big factor other than just bragging rights.


Which do you think will be a better fit?
Any reason to go with the 5D3 over the 7D2 for my situation?

Thanks in Advance! -- Steven


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 8, 2014)

Low light is mainly what you'd be giving up with the 7DII. With my daughters' indoor sports/dance/etc., I'm often higher than ISO 6400 to get sufficient shutter speed, and that's with f/2.8 and sometimes f/2 lenses.


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## Bennymiata (Dec 8, 2014)

For video, the 7D2 is better because of the dpaf, but the 5D3 is better for quality stills.


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## Sabaki (Dec 8, 2014)

I've just bought the 7Dii and it is a stunning performer for what it does. 

The question is, is what it does, what you're looking for a camera to do?

Shooting indoors, even in well lit spaces, still requires an ISO crank and between the two, the 5D3 certainly outshines the 7Dii, not to mention that with your 70-200 f/2.8 mkii, you will get superb images. 

I would say that the 5Diii would be my recommendation, even though the 7Dii's ISO performance is fantastic for a Canon APS-C body. 

As a graphic designer, I'm sure image quality is a non negotiable for you.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 8, 2014)

intown said:


> Which do you think is a better all around camera? 7D mark III or 5D mark III



Imho of course the 5d3, hands down, unless you want a pop-up flash/master, fast (video) live view af or (in stills mode) af points to the frame edges. The problem is that you need the lenses that go with ff, and for tele primes that means very expensive, large and heavy. For video, I'd also advise the 5d3 as it runs Magic Lantern.


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 8, 2014)

5d3 is the better all around camera. But you pay more for that all aroundness. The 7d2 is more geared for action photography. 5d3 can handle it all just not at 10fps.


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## dolina (Dec 8, 2014)

I'd get the 7D Mark II, cause it's cheaper.


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## FEBS (Dec 8, 2014)

The better all round camera from the 7D2 and 5D3 is without any hesitation the 5D3 for stills.


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## Freddie (Dec 8, 2014)

*EF-S Lenses?*

EF-S lenses will not fit the 5D MK III.
7D has 10 frames per second and a bit more reach.
5D has 6 frames per second and slightly better low light quality with larger files in RAW.
Both have excellent autofocus capabilities.
Those are the only things I would consider. I have both cameras. The purpose of each is a bit different in my usage.
If I had to choose, it would be the 5D MK III.


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## Yiannis A - Greece (Dec 8, 2014)

@intown:
Dear friend,
i own both cameras you mention. Go with the 7D Mk2. Up to ISO 800 they shoot the exact same quality pictures. From 800 to 3200, 5d Mk3 is 1 stop better. From 3200 to 12800, 7d mk2 is 1/3 of a stop better! Even at ISO 16000, 7D Mk2 produces usable images. I'm producing images on a professional, calibrated EIZO monitor and it never lies to me.
What blows my mind with the 7D is that, even if it has more noise in some cases, it cleans up much better and easier in photoshop. And i mean, A LOT BETTER and EASIER and this includes videos up to ISO 8000 also! The final result is better for 7D than 5D, period! I'm up to this conclusion, after shooting 771 side-by-side shots with both cameras during the previous week and spending half weeekend to compare them. The 7D has such a fine noise pattern that, clears up much easier; i'm positive, i've seen it with my own eyes! By the way, in the so-called "reviews" until now, nobody mentions how easily it "cleans up" in Photoshop, compared to other cameras, including FF.
I see you have a 60D right now so you're used to crop sensors; it will be quite difficult to lose the 1.6x magnification factor and start cropping. Don't look further, the 7D is the right camera for you.

Most of all, be lucky, be strong, keep doing well. All my best,
Yiannis


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## FTb-n (Dec 8, 2014)

Both are great options. I migrated from the 60D to the 7D and now the 5D3. I shoot a lot of kid sports, but don't plan to get the 7D2. The 5D3 is an underrated sports body. If your need isn't heavily dependent upon high speed burst or extended burst in RAW (which can fill a buffer), the 5D3 does a great job.

From a sports perspective, I think of the 5D3 and the 7D2 as little brothers to the 1Dx. They are different and have their own strengths. If low light is a bigger concern than burst mode, then the 5D3 is the better choice. If burst mode and buffer is a bigger concern then the 7D2 is the way to go.

For general use, both should do well. But, full frame has some distinct benefits. You will see better low light performance and better color depth. Granted, the latter is mostly visible when comparing FF to crop directly, otherwise, you may not see it. Using a 35 2.0 IS, I also find the 5D3 can lock on focus in lower light than my 7D or 60D. I suspect it will out perform the 7D2 as well, but perhaps not as easily as the older crop bodies.

I find that the 70-200 f2.8L II performs better on FF than on crop. Images from the lens are sharper on a FF sensor. You have better control over DOF -- meaning 2.8 on FF offers smaller DOF than on crop. And, for many occasions, the 70-200 focal range is more usable on FF.

Incidentally, I was concerned about losing the 1.6 crop factor. In my experience with the 70-200 at 200 mm on both the 7D and the 5D3, a 5D3 image cropped match the 7D image is sharper than the 7D image. Hopefully, the 7D2 will be sharper than the 7D, but you won't lose any real "reach" from what you have now.

I'd go for the 5D3. Once you go FF, it's hard to back to crop.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 8, 2014)

Yiannis A - Greece said:


> i own both cameras you mention. Go with the 7D Mk2. Up to ISO 800 they shoot the exact same quality pictures. From 800 to 3200, 5d Mk3 is 1 stop better. *From 3200 to 12800, 7d mk2 is 1/3 of a stop better!*



It appears you're serious about that. Sorry to have to say it, but physics does not agree with your assessment.


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 8, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:



> Yiannis A - Greece said:
> 
> 
> > i own both cameras you mention. Go with the 7D Mk2. Up to ISO 800 they shoot the exact same quality pictures. From 800 to 3200, 5d Mk3 is 1 stop better. *From 3200 to 12800, 7d mk2 is 1/3 of a stop better!*
> ...



And neither do I! LOL


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## wyldeguy (Dec 9, 2014)

I have the 7D2 and I can say it's absolutely fantastic. For what you are saying you want it for I would say the 7D2 is better for you. I have used the 5D3 and don't get me wrong it is also a fantastic piece of gear but the sports will be better shot on the 7D2 for both video and stills. The comment about the 5D3 being sharper cropped to a 7D image size is a bit of a lie. If you look at the pixel size and pixel count that's impossible. Crop 22 mp down to the 1.6 aps-c and it's now something between 8-12mp I think. I know I'm going to get flack but DxO has a nice comparison tool that shows this a little more clearly.


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## dtaylor (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Low light is mainly what you'd be giving up with the 7DII. With my daughters' indoor sports/dance/etc., I'm often higher than ISO 6400 to get sufficient shutter speed, and that's with f/2.8 and sometimes f/2 lenses.



Agreed. But you have to think about the end goal. The 7D2 is fine to 12,800, even 16,000, for 8x10 prints as long as you don't blow the exposure.

Now if you want to print big from higher ISOs...hard to beat FF.


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## AshtonNekolah (Dec 9, 2014)

IMOP, there is no better camera for what your doing, it all boils down to quality and speed, both cameras are great and more than enough for what you want to do. if you want higher quality in images 5d mark 3, if you will be shooting more journal stuff and things that are fast 7D mark 2, forget about ISO both cameras are capable of doing just that, one will be high MP over the other.


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## dtaylor (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Yiannis A - Greece said:
> 
> 
> > i own both cameras you mention. Go with the 7D Mk2. Up to ISO 800 they shoot the exact same quality pictures. From 800 to 3200, 5d Mk3 is 1 stop better. *From 3200 to 12800, 7d mk2 is 1/3 of a stop better!*
> ...



I would have to agree with you Neuro. Unprocessed RAWs show the difference clearly and at high ISO the 5D3 is cleaner with more detail even though the 7D2 sensor is newer tech. It takes a large gap in tech for crop to produce cleaner high ISO, i.e. think 7D2 vs. original 5D.

But I would agree with one point Yiannis made: the 7D2 cleans up nicely. That does not make it better then a 5D3 at high ISO. But compared to earlier Canon 18 MP crop cameras like the 7D and 60D, a processed 7D2 high ISO shot looks much better then one would guess at first from unprocessed RAWs.

This struck me during the NX1 thread. SOOC RAW the NX1 is cleaner. After applying NR in ACR, the 7D2 looks better. The character of the noise has improved quite a bit.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 9, 2014)

wyldeguy said:


> The comment about the 5D3 being sharper cropped to a 7D image size is a bit of a lie. If you look at the pixel size and pixel count that's impossible. Crop 22 mp down to the 1.6 aps-c and it's now something between 8-12mp I think.



Crop the 5DIII image to the APS-C FoV and you'll have.....less MP (8.6, to be exact). Otherwise, the images are (can be made) equivalent. That means stopping the FF camera down 1.3-stops and raising the ISO 1.3-stops to maintain shutter speed. If you don't need to stop down and/or maintain shutter speed, the FF delivers better IQ, but fewer MP. If you don't need to crop all the way down to 1.6x, the FF delivers better IQ. So the question is whether 8.6 MP are sufficient for your intended output (e.g., prints up to 16x24"/A2). If so, FF will deliver at worst equivalent IQ, and in most cases better IQ.


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## FTb-n (Dec 9, 2014)

wyldeguy said:


> The comment about the 5D3 being sharper cropped to a 7D image size is a bit of a lie.



It's no lie. EF lenses are designed for full frame bodies (film and sensor). I'm going to butcher this explanation (Neuro does a much better job explaining this and I bet he's thinking, "not this again"), but lenses have limits regarding the degree of sharpness to which they can focus the light. The larger pixels in a full frame sensor generally do a better job of rendering the edge of a sharp object (such as a fine line in a test chart) from a full frame lens. Put that line under a microscope and that edge will look fuzzy. Now, pack lots of smaller pixels close together along this edge and they will capture the "fuzz." Because the smaller pixels aren't as efficient in capturing the light as the big pixels and this fuzzy line could spill more across the tiny pixels, thus recording a less sharp image. All of this may vary by lens, with some able to focus better for the small pixels than others.

Okay, that's my stab at explaining the why. If I butchered it, I warned you. The thing that's important to me is that increasing "sharpness" requires more than simply packing more pixels into a smaller space. The lens' ability to focus the light and the pixel's efficiency in capturing the light also play a factor. 

Sometimes pictures can say it better. Checkout the link to The Digital Picture's comparison tool of the 70-200 f2.8L II on a 1Ds III vs. a 60D.  Those lines are softer on the 60D which has smaller pixels that are more tightly packed together.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=3&API=0&LensComp=687&CameraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=3&APIComp=0

As previously mentioned, the bigger sensor allows for higher ISO which allows for faster shutter speeds that can reduce blur and further sharpen an image.

Again, my explanation may have some holes in it, but image sharpness isn't just about the pixel density. Much of what I shoot is high ISO (1600 and up). With the 70-200, cropping a 5D3 image will give you a sharper image than a native 7D image. Go outside in bright light and lower ISO, and this difference is less clear. Even outside, I get better results cropping my 5D3 image over my native 7D image, but we are nitpicking here. This is enough to mitigate the 1.6 crop factor for me. But, it doesn't mean that the 7D can't produce pleasingly sharp images. It does, especially in bright light.

I would love to see The Digital Picture add the 7D2 to their comparison tool to see if the Mark II version is any sharper than the Mark I.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 9, 2014)

Going from the 60d to the 5d3 or 7d2 I think you'll be happy either way. I love the 5d3 and paired with the 70-200 2.8 is 2 you already have is my favorite combo. To me if you're going to shoot lots of sports , action or birds in flight the 10fps will be nice. Also when you go to ff you're going to have to get use the shallow depth of field compared to crop senors like your 60d. That takes a little adjustment to get everything sharp. If your going to do lots of video I might consider the 70d because imo for video it's nice having the articulating screen. You could rent the cameras and see which you prefer. For me it'd be the 5d3, but they'll both be great for what you're wanting to do.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 9, 2014)

Yiannis A - Greece said:


> @intown:
> Dear friend,
> i own both cameras you mention. Go with the 7D Mk2. Up to ISO 800 they shoot the exact same quality pictures. From 800 to 3200, 5d Mk3 is 1 stop better. From 3200 to 12800, 7d mk2 is 1/3 of a stop better! Even at ISO 16000, 7D Mk2 produces usable images. I'm producing images on a professional, calibrated EIZO monitor and it never lies to me.
> What blows my mind with the 7D is that, even if it has more noise in some cases, it cleans up much better and easier in photoshop. And i mean, A LOT BETTER and EASIER and this includes videos up to ISO 8000 also! The final result is better for 7D than 5D, period! I'm up to this conclusion, after shooting 771 side-by-side shots with both cameras during the previous week and spending half weeekend to compare them. The 7D has such a fine noise pattern that, clears up much easier; i'm positive, i've seen it with my own eyes! By the way, in the so-called "reviews" until now, nobody mentions how easily it "cleans up" in Photoshop, compared to other cameras, including FF.
> ...



That's kinda hard to believe. I'd like to see a few examples you took. Maybe post some here if you don't mind. And are you shooting raw comparing these images?


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## rpt (Dec 9, 2014)

I vote 5D3. As suggest as marsu42 said, install MagicLantern and you have a great camera. As for focusing on video as there is no AF on the 5D3 video, get one of the apps for your pad or smartphone and you can do the follow focus stuff. I got DSLR Controler Beta for my Samsung Note 3.

With this configuration , the only downside is that the 5D3 has 6 fps and the 7D2 has 10. 

Hope this helps.


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## StudentOfLight (Dec 9, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> wyldeguy said:
> 
> 
> > The comment about the 5D3 being sharper cropped to a 7D image size is a bit of a lie.
> ...



TDP crops of 6D vs 7D-II with the 200mm f/2:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=458&Camera=819&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=458&CameraComp=963&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0


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## Don Haines (Dec 9, 2014)

hmmmmmmmm.........

The 5D3 was designed as an all-round camera.....
The 7D2 was designed to fit a niche......

What do you think?


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## FTb-n (Dec 9, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> hmmmmmmmm.........
> 
> The 5D3 was designed as an all-round camera.....
> The 7D2 was designed to fit a niche......
> ...


The 5D2 seemed to be a wedding/portrait body only -- a true niche. The 5D3 upped the ante for weddings, portraits and events plus pulled it out of the niche category by making it a reasonable alternatively for less demanding action.

I wouldn't put the 7D2 in the niche category, it seems to belittle its other talents. The 7D2 appears to be the new king of the crop bodies for all subject matter that truly excels with action photography. Plus it is a genuine pro body in build quality.


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## ritholtz (Dec 9, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> FTb-n said:
> 
> 
> > wyldeguy said:
> ...



Surprisingly crop is very close to FF. I am expecting little bigger gap. Not sure, but crop and FF pics are not taken from same distance from subject. Crop is further to subject than FF which puts them disadvantage in this test. Brian 70D produced lines little thicker than 7D2 from the same comparison tool. Are there any significant differences between 70D and 7D2 in terms of image quality for simple end user. They felt same in TDP comparison tool here and DPReview comparison tool. 
Thanks


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## Don Haines (Dec 9, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > hmmmmmmmm.........
> ...


Just my opinion, but to me the 1DX and the 7D2 hold down the top spots in the Canon Ff and Crop world, while I would put the 5D3 and the 70D as the all round cameras in their categories......


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## CaptainZero (Dec 9, 2014)

The OP didn't mention any other lenses they have. Just the 70-200. Are the other lenses EF, or are they EF-S? That makes a difference because the EF-S won't work on the 5D3. Something to keep in mind. I don't think you can go wrong with either, but the 7D2 may be better for you since you mention a lot of video, and sports (even though it's indoors).


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## Hjalmarg1 (Dec 9, 2014)

intown said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Perhaps this has been asked before, if so please point me in the right direction. I looked and did not find the comparison that fit my needs.
> 
> ...



I would say that the 5D3 would be my recommendation, even though the 7D2 ISO performance is supposed to be very good. You already own another APS-C camera.


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## intown (Dec 9, 2014)

Thankyou! Thankyou! Thankyou!

I spend a lot of time in a lot of different forums and the folks are so great and genuinely helpful. There are differing opinions and it is great to read everyones differing perspectives.

@captainzero the other lenses are pretty standard EF mounts, 40mm pancake, no other "L" lenses. I have one EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 is USM

@rpt what iOS apps allow the 5d3 to do follow focus? Something like CamRanger? any other good options?



Anyway thanks so much for all the input and advice, it has definitely pointed me in the right direction.

Thanks! -- Steven


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## FTb-n (Dec 9, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> FTb-n said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


I would agree. The 7D2 tops the 70D in every category except price, while the 1Dx tops the 5D3 in just about every category except price, weight, and silent shutter.

The progression through the crop bodies is pretty linear with the higher end body improving upon the lower end in just about every feature. But, when looking at the top four pro-grade bodies -- 7D2, 6D, 5D3, 1Dx -- the distinctions are more detached. The 1Dx may be king of them all, but the 6D, 7D2, and 5D3 each have unique strengths. Pending one's subject matter and budget, it would be quite reasonable to augment one's kit with two or more of these bodies to target specific needs.


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## Jack Douglas (Dec 9, 2014)

intown, please when you finally make your move, give us some feedback as to why. Your question is exactly what I'm confronting except that I'm presently used to the 6D. I'm shooting with the 300 2.8 II and the 70-200 2.8 II and actually have been very happy with the 6D other than the obvious negatives.

I don't think the following quote about an upcoming trip to the Queen Charlotte Islands takes this thread off track and may spur some new thoughts in this debate. I have resisted a 1Dx based on weight and size mainly and price.

Quote:

Greetings,

May is a wonderful month to start off Spring on Haida Gwaii. The first two weeks, HSE has a scheduled trip for the 11th to either Kuuna or in the inlet. May works, many different species are present from cormorants, aucklets, eagles, and a variety of other seabirds. The Delkatla Wildlife Sanctuary in Massett offers a great opportunity to spot many different species passing through the islands (cranes, falcons, etc).

Your dingy should be suffice to shoreline adventures. 

Offshore we have the chance to take pictures of shearwaters as they pass by the vessel. Haida Gwaii is home to several species. This year we have been seeing hawks and owls (saw whet, red tail, sharp shrinned) hanging around. Depending the west or east coast, a 45 min zodiac ride out to the West Coast offers glimpses at Tufted Puffins, Pigeon Gillemonts, Rhino Aucklets, Divers, etc. 

As for birds, I don't foresee you having any problems other than swivel neck from watching all the kinds of species available to view. 

We have a tentative trip scheduled for May 11 if that works. 

Weather is flexible, "wait five minutes and the weather will change" as they say. Overall, May tends to bring calmer waters and mrs daylight to explore. 

With your motorhome there are several campsites for your pleasure:  

Kagan Bay-Outside village of Queen Charlotte
Misty Meadows- Tlall- offers a long stretch of beach (Naikoon) where one can walk and take picks or bino plovers and a variety of birds. 
North Beach- Close to Tow Hill there is a setup for your rig. 

Sandspit- You could travel out to Gray Bay to camp and enjoy the beach. 

Hope this helps


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## Marsu42 (Dec 9, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> The progression through the crop bodies is pretty linear with the higher end body improving upon the lower end in just about every feature.



That's certainly what Canon would like you to believe but it isn't. A 70d has advantages over the big brother that will definitely matter to some: size, weight, swivel screen, touch screen, wifi, right hand-only control, to name those who come to my mind right now...



FTb-n said:


> The 7D2 tops the 70D in every category except price, while the 1Dx tops the 5D3 in just about every category except price, weight, and silent shutter.



... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more), focus peaking, raw histogram, raw zebras, raw video, focus stacking, intervalometer, motion detect release ... I'll stop here, but I could continue.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more)



So, you have more resolution (actual resolution, not pixel count) with the 5DIII at the same time as you have that extra ~2 stops of DR at base ISO? How does that work, exactly?


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## Marsu42 (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more)
> ...



Download this: https://builds.magiclantern.fm/#/ ... then follow these exact steps: Enable the dual_iso module, enable the dual_iso feature in the expo menu and set to to iso800 or iso1600 when in a tough spot.

But as you surely known my answer when asking, we can go straight to "Neuro educates about the difference between resolution and pixel count"


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Indeed. The point is that the dual ISO feature of ML isn't free, there's a resolution penalty. Listing '2 EV more DR' as a feature of the 5DIII is disingenuous.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Indeed. The point is that the dual ISO feature of ML isn't free, there's a resolution penalty. Listing '2 EV more DR' as a feature of the 5DIII is disingenuous.



Nope, it isn't. First off, I didn't write that more res and more dr are there at the same time, this what you made up from two items separated by a comma. If I write "the 7d2 has dpaf, ir metering and a 65x af array" that doesn't mean that both are there at the same time. Implying that the latter is disingenuous because you could have just written "prone to misinterpretation".

Furthermore, ML's dual iso resolution penalty is negligible in practice because the post-processing utility does such a terrific job joining the interlaced iso lines. At first, I didn't believe it, but it's just like that (but you cannot try for yourself, so you're excused there). If there is a res penalty, I'd evaluate it at max 3.9mp, so the 5d3+dual_iso has still more resolution than the 1dx :->


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



The overlapped portion of both data sets are full resolution. Only the highlight and deep shadow are not. So we could say it's only half disingenuous and only that part which most eyes dont pay much attention to. Properly exposed images are still necessary.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> First off, I didn't write that more res and more dr are there at the same time, this what you made up from two items separated by a comma. If I write "the 7d2 has dpaf, ir metering and a 65x af array" that doesn't mean that both are there at the same time. Implying that the latter is disingenuous because you could have just written "prone to misinterpretation".



Fair enough, but _intentionally_ open to misinterpretation (or do you believe that every single reader of this thread will be familiar with the features of ML?).

Let's try this, then...to have the 5DIII directly geotag images requires you to buy a Canon accessory that must attach to the hotshoe (precluding use of an E-TTL flash) or attach via a cable (compromising the weather sealing); the 1D X does not.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Fair enough, but _intentionally_ open to misinterpretation (or do you believe that every single reader of this thread will be familiar with the features of ML?).



Sure, but you have to put my post into the thread context: I was replying to someone who claimed that more expensive cameras are better across the board, and I followed suit in the elaboration of my reply. It's not like you aren't known to have fallen victim to the habit of writing some "less than carefully weighed" posts 



neuroanatomist said:


> Let's try this, then...to have the 5DIII directly geotag images requires you to buy a Canon accessory that must attach to the hotshoe (precluding use of an E-TTL flash) or attach via a cable (compromising the weather sealing); the 1D X does not.



Well, if that's worth €2000 to you, it's your money :-> ... btw I just noticed that at least in Germany the 1dx has gone down a *lot*. Maybe there are more and more ML fans out there  ?


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## Don Haines (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Let's try this, then...to have the 5DIII directly geotag images requires you to buy a Canon accessory that must attach to the hotshoe (precluding use of an E-TTL flash) or attach via a cable (compromising the weather sealing); the 1D X does not.



Come on now Neuro..... You know the 5D3 isn't really weathersealed... 

The weathersealing is one of the big advantages the 1DX (and 7D2) have over the rest of the lineup...


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## FTb-n (Dec 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> A 70d has advantages over the big brother that will definitely matter to some: size, weight, swivel screen, touch screen, wifi, right hand-only control, to name those who come to my mind right now...



I forgot about the LCD and wifi features of the 70D -- trade-offs for better weather sealing and a more rugged body of the 7D2. 

To be fair, the SL1 also deviates the linear path with its unique benefit of its small size.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 9, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> To be fair, the SL1 also deviates the linear path with its unique benefit of its small size.



Imho, the path isn't the path no more - with the arrival of iphones and mirrorless people realizing you don't need to carry 5kg of weight anymore to take some nice shots for the family album. I predict in the future, we'll see a much more differentiated Canon lineup than the "more expensive is bigger is better".



FTb-n said:


> I forgot about the LCD and wifi features of the 70D -- trade-offs for better weather sealing and a more rugged body of the 7D2.



I'm still convinced that if humankind can put a man on the moon, it can produce a sealed swivel screen. Imho it's much more likely it's not on "pro" cameras simply because it has a flimsy "gadget" appeal and contradicts marketing of a real man's camera like 5d3+


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## StudentOfLight (Dec 9, 2014)

ritholtz said:


> ...
> 
> Surprisingly crop is very close to FF. I am expecting little bigger gap. Not sure, but crop and FF pics are not taken from same distance from subject. Crop is further to subject than FF which puts them disadvantage in this test. Brian 70D produced lines little thicker than 7D2 from the same comparison tool. Are there any significant differences between 70D and 7D2 in terms of image quality for simple end user. They felt same in TDP comparison tool here and DPReview comparison tool.
> Thanks


The only reason the crop sensor image looks reasonably close is because the 200f/2 is an outstanding lens. If you put a mediocre FF lens on crop it will look considerably softer than on a FF body. Full frame lenses with "poor corner performance" could possibly produce a more detailed image on crop if they are extremely sharp in the centre, i.e. if the lens significantly "out-resolves" the full frame sensor in the APS-C "image-window". A crop sensor would presumably have more pixel density to take advantage of such extra potential resolving power.


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## FTb-n (Dec 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> I'm still convinced that if humankind can put a man on the moon, it can produce a sealed swivel screen. Imho it's much more likely it's not on "pro" cameras simply because it has a flimsy "gadget" appeal and contradicts marketing of a real man's camera like 5d3+


I agree that weather sealing a swivel screen shouldn't be an issue. The biggest weakness of the 5D3 in the sealing department is the mode dial. I would think a swivel screen could be designed with sealing that matches that of the dial.

I have a 60D and like its swivel screen. But, I get paranoid whenever I hand it to my kids for fear breaking the thing off in an absentminded moment. Okay, in some situations I'm afraid that I might break it.

My bet is that Canon doesn't include the swivel screen on its pro bodies for several reasons:

1. Pros aren't demanding it.
2. Pros are more likely to use and abuse their gear. Some, because they don't pay for it and there are risks considered to be reasonable for a given shot. Others because they often shoot in demanding situations where things happen quickly and there's little time to be as careful about a swivel screen as a casual user would be.
3. Perhaps they think they are doing pros a favor by not adding an appendage to the body that will likely increase the risk of rendering a body useless during a critical shoot.
4. They want to keep their reliability stats for pro bodies as high as possible. Any added appendage like a swivel screen in the hands of photographers who are most demanding of their gear is inviting breakage that will result in a marked increase in pro-grade bodies delivered to Canon for repair. Even if it the user's fault, they probably don't want to see this.

[By "pros", I'll include all photographers who demand the most out of their gear and use it in demanding situations.]

But, I won't belittle the swivel screen. I think it can be a valuable tool. Still, I'm more confident that my 5D3's will survive a challenging shoot in a crowded event because there is absolutely zero opportunity for the LCD to break off. Even if I never open it, there's no chance that the screen will inadvertently open or some kid (who may or may not be related to me ) will get grabby and open it at the wrong time.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 9, 2014)

[...] argh, deleted post instead of replying, that'll tech me [..]


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> FTb-n said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Pros aren't demanding it.
> ...



Yep, we shouldn't include all the pros who switched to a D810 or D4s mainly to get an articulating screen. How many pros did that? :


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## Marsu42 (Dec 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > FTb-n said:
> ...



Neuro, please do try to read whole posts before firing up your "Haaarrrr, those Nikon trolls are everywhere" reply engine, will you? This paranoia reminds me of a particular party in my country seeing commies everywhere, back in the days...






Edit: Well, you cannot read my op anymore because I just managed to delete it by accident (modify instead of quote), but the sentence above was in it and I didn't even mention Nikon


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