# Will not buy Canon gear at launch.



## sanj (Jul 24, 2015)

Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop. 
Just speaking out loud.

Dilbert was right when he said that it may be worth waiting few months before buying the 5ds/r.


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## Maximilian (Jul 24, 2015)

Yeah! I can understand your anger. 
Luckily I was calm enough to buy both my FF 5D2 and 5D3 and most of my new lenses except for the 100L Macro almost one year after release for a good price.
But I can remember back then that after 6 months there was not so much of any big price drops then. 
So it seems that times are changing faster now or that Canon was not able to address the customers they wanted to buy the 5DS/R with the original package. 

Let's see how it will be with a 5D4 or a 1DX2, because here the addressed market shou,d be wider and the "results" of price drops more normal. So we can make our conclusions on the 5DS/R.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jul 24, 2015)

I tend not to buy any techno-toy when it first comes out. Companies these days are cutting QC and wanting to "beat the competition" are releasing faulty products. Evidently today's customers are willing to accept paying to beta test products until they are fixed. 

There are some people who want to be the "first kid on the block" to have something. That's great as long as they understand the costs and the risks. I would rather not be the First Kid on the Block to have to send in a product for repairs, thank you. ;D

Personally, I appreciate these early buyers. They pay the costs and take the risks of beta testing products. After a while I get a better product at a lower price. So I encourage everyone to buy techno-toys as soon as they are announced. Pre-ordering if at all possible. 

It really helps people like me out in the long run.


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## dolina (Jul 24, 2015)

sanj said:


> Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop.
> Just speaking out loud.
> 
> Dilbert was right when he said that it may be worth waiting few months before buying the 5ds/r.


I feel the same way as well.

The 5Ds R was sold to me at launch for what I thought was a good price.

A week later it was selling for below $3,075.

Not to mention I got the first batch of (defective) 7D Mark IIs.

WTF

When the 5D4 comes out I will ask for a quote and wait for better offers to be made. These things are not in short supply.


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## Phenix205 (Jul 24, 2015)

Simply supply-demand principle. When 5D3 was released back in 2012, you were lucky if you could get your hands on one within the first 6 months at $3500. It was almost ridiculous if it were sold at this price today. But it was in extremely high demand at the time. 5Ds/r is a totally different animal amongst strong competitions and much more diversified prosumer digital camera market today. Waiting out is a great idea for any newly released camera, by any manufacturer, not just Canon.


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## candyman (Jul 24, 2015)

I bought my Canon 5D MK III in october 2012 at €2939. That was about 6 months after launch. The price dropped from €3499 (launch price). Currently the 5D MK III sells at €2799
So it is wise - if you can - to wait. 
I bought the 6D 1,5 year ago for €1579. It currently sells around ....€1577


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## eli452 (Jul 24, 2015)

You are all financially and technology correct, but GAS wrong...


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## AcutancePhotography (Jul 24, 2015)

eli452 said:


> You are all financially and technology correct, but GAS wrong...



I prefer the term GAS efficient -- getting more gas, better gas, for less money.


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## sanj (Jul 24, 2015)




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## Click (Jul 24, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> I prefer the term GAS efficient -- getting more gas, better gas, for less money.



;D


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## Eldar (Jul 24, 2015)

On the other hand ... life´s too short to postpone unavoidable decisions ... :


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## Random Orbits (Jul 24, 2015)

A lot of it might depend on where you live and currencies. The USD had been weakening for so long, that it's gain against currencies in the last few years feels a lot different. It used to be said that supertelephotos held their value, but with the strengthening USD, prices have been falling. The 600L II was 13000 for a long time, but now you can get it for 10500 through CPW. That person's experience will be a lot different than the person who bought the first version for 7000 in 2008 and saw it "appreciate" to 8000 in 2010.


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## RLPhoto (Jul 24, 2015)

I haven't either. I'll wait for the 5DSR or the A7RII to drop prices and work out any kinks before buying.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 24, 2015)

sanj said:


> Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop.
> Just speaking out loud.
> 
> Dilbert was right when he said that it may be worth waiting few months before buying the 5ds/r.



This is true for cars, TV sets, computers, and a host of other products that have new models churning out. The price starts high and declines as time for another new product to appear.

Sales levels can also cause price drops as can changes in currency values can raise or lower prices. Put currency values and slow sales together, and its a double whammy.

I purchased a used Kodak DCS 460 a few years back for $100. It was from 1995, and was amazing in that it was a 6MP color DSLR. Initially, they sold for $35,500, but within a very few years, they were $2500. They used the old tif raw format, and its still supported by Adobe.


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## Maximilian (Jul 24, 2015)

Click said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer the term GAS efficient -- getting more gas, better gas, for less money.
> ...


*rotfl* ;D


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## sanj (Jul 25, 2015)

Eldar said:


> On the other hand ... life´s too short to postpone unavoidable decisions ... :



Understand!  That is the problem. Hahahaha


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## tron (Jul 25, 2015)

Eldar said:


> On the other hand ... life´s too short to postpone unavoidable decisions ... :


Quite true :


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## pdirestajr (Jul 25, 2015)

If you stay a generation behind in camera bodies you will never be disappointed.

I'm still getting paid using a 5Dii. Only if my clients knew....they wouldn't care!


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## tron (Jul 25, 2015)

Have you noticed that newly introduced lenses have no issues? Also, their prices do not fall afterwards (exceptions are maybe the latest 24 2.8, 28 2.8 and 35 2.0).
So there are no excuses for any delays in satisfying lens G.A.S ;D ;D ;D


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## wsmith96 (Jul 25, 2015)

pdirestajr said:


> If you stay a generation behind in camera bodies you will never be disappointed.
> 
> I'm still getting paid using a 5Dii. Only if my clients knew....they wouldn't care!



Exactly what I've been doing. I'm not a pro, but my skills haven't developed enough to warrant a better camera pair yet (5D and 60D). Funny thing is that my T1i I did buy new and it cost the same price as my other two combined. My wife and kids use the T1i now.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 25, 2015)

tron said:


> Have you noticed that newly introduced lenses have no issues? Also, their prices do not fall afterwards (exceptions are maybe the latest 24 2.8, 28 2.8 and 35 2.0).
> So there are no excuses for any delays in satisfying lens G.A.S ;D ;D ;D



Perhaps you should check the price for a 100-400mm L introduced about 7 months ago, and now available for $1999, which is $200 less!

As soon as initial backlogs are filled, and products are filling the bins at big photo stores, prices are reduced. They have ways of getting around the MAP prices, such as selling thru a referral from Canon Price Watch.

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/05613/Canon-EF-100-400mm-f4.5-5.6L-IS-II-price.html


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## Aglet (Jul 25, 2015)

Oddly enough, bought most of my Canon gear during intro-bundle-promo's and the prices quickly rose after that and weren't back down to the intro price until about a year later and on sale.
Bodies with lenses or big-whites alone I've managed to do that.
Alas, that was a few years ago and marketing strategies have likely changed as I've been ABC for nearly 3 now other than an overnight dalliance with a 7d2 that didn't want to focus anytime soon.


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## JonAustin (Jul 25, 2015)

There may be other factors at play, as well, re: timing of purchases, depending upon individual circumstances. I bought my 5D III during the last week of 2012 (~ 9 months after its introduction), and both a 100-400 II _and_ a 16-35/4 during the last week of 2014, in order to expense the purchases to those years for tax purposes.

The 5D III and the 16-35/4 had each been out long enough when I bought them for their prices to have dropped, but not the 100-400 II. However, the 100-400 _had_ been out long enough for me to read the (glowing) reviews, and depreciation isn't nearly the issue with lenses as it is with camera bodies.

I bought the 5D III for its vastly improved AF system, compared to the 5D (original, which I still own) and the 5D II (which I didn't buy), even though I really don't need its higher resolution most of the time. I currently plan to buy a 2nd 5D III at close-out prices after the 5D IV is released, and finally sell / give away my 20D and 5D.


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## tahoetoeknee (Jul 26, 2015)

My plan- bought the 5d3 in oct. of 2012, my plan is to buy the 5D4 two years after the oct anniversary. That's just a plan tho


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 26, 2015)

I bought my 5D MK III for $2750 on one of Adorama's 1 day special deals on ebay, and got a $60 ebay rebate which bought a 2nd Canon battery. This was 9/15/2012, Not quiet 6 months after the Camera started deliveries for $3600 around March 22 of 2012. The price later went up a few hundred $ again.


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## RunAndGun (Jul 26, 2015)

Bought my 5D mkIII on launch day and had/have no regrets. It's also never been in for any type of service because of "defects" of being an early model or otherwise(the so-called light leak). And if I deem the mkIV a worthwhile upgrade, I'll prob do the same. If I feel that it's worth buying, why would I wait 6-12 months to try and save a few $100 when I could be out enjoying it then?

I did save several hundred dollars on the 70-200 after it came out by waiting several months, but it was just a happy accident. I wasn't holding out for a price reduction, it was just when I decided to pull the trigger on it.


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## Hjalmarg1 (Jul 26, 2015)

sanj said:


> Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop.
> Just speaking out loud.
> 
> Dilbert was right when he said that it may be worth waiting few months before buying the 5ds/r.


You are totally right. I also learned my lesson with the latest 16-35mm f4L IS that now can be found for about $200 less than I paid


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## kbmelb (Jul 26, 2015)

I got my 5DsR at launch for $200 off and with about $180 of usable extras thrown in from Best Buy.
It was worth it to me to get in early, I often have agencies asking if I can supply high res and what the extra cost is. Now I can do so with out renting gear or fighting with the shortcomings of MF systems. Plus I needed to upgrade my 1Ds3 so...Oh, and it's a write off so it's a wash on the price anyway.


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## tron (Jul 26, 2015)

Hjalmarg1 said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop.
> ...


Yes but a year has passed since its introduction. Are the photo opportunities you lost worth less than 200$ ?


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## Stu_bert (Jul 26, 2015)

tron said:


> Hjalmarg1 said:
> 
> 
> > sanj said:
> ...



+1. 

It is an unfortunate reflection of the state of the market that prices change that soon after launch, but ultimately when we buy we are prepared to pay the price that is being asked, and we enjoy the benefits that purchase brings...

As an early adopter Sanj, you have access to a fantastic camera. Enjoy it, don't reflect on the downside, just look at the beautiful images it produces - alas we can't change the past so look forward and enjoy


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## tron (Jul 26, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Have you noticed that newly introduced lenses have no issues? Also, their prices do not fall afterwards (exceptions are maybe the latest 24 2.8, 28 2.8 and 35 2.0).
> ...


Maybe BUT:

1. The first part of my comments referred to the new lenses having no issues so no reason to delay.
2. The price reductions apply mostly to USA and not to Europe. Even so your example shows a 10% (more or less) price reduction or a 200$ amount which depending on what you are going to photograph is not probably huge (compared with the advantages of the new 100-400 vs the old one).


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## GMCPhotographics (Jul 26, 2015)

sanj said:


> Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop.
> Just speaking out loud.
> 
> Dilbert was right when he said that it may be worth waiting few months before buying the 5ds/r.



Nikon and Sigma are just the same. You pay a big premium initially. A lot of this is basic supply and demand.


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## YuengLinger (Jul 26, 2015)

sanj said:


> Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop.
> Just speaking out loud.
> 
> Dilbert was right when he said that it may be worth waiting few months before buying the 5ds/r.



How is this just a Canon issue? Think cars, TV's, smartphones, software...

If a company makes the tool I need and sells it at a reasonable price, I buy it. If I don't need it, I buy it later. 

Another point: I use to really fuss about the price of books in bookstores compared to online. Now there are no more bookstores. Soon, with e-readers, there won't be anymore used books. Every book we buy will be at the new price, and not ours to share with friends or donate to our local library. This was all brought about by collective consumer behavior.

Much of the same sad industry transformation has already happened with photography. Those of us who think being stingy is a virtue, who get angry at the price of a camera, a fast-food burger, a new novel, a computer OS, or American made products, are reaping the whirlwind, my friends.

If you gripe about jobs in America or Europe, you have stingy consumers to thank, largely. Corporations exhibit the same stinginess with profits, but we call that greed. Cheers!


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## bholliman (Jul 26, 2015)

I paid the early adopters premium in December 2012 when I bought my 6D for $2,100. At the time I was ready to switch to full frame and was willing to pay extra for it. Two plus years later I picked up a gray market 5D MkIII for $2,000. I will probably pick up a 5D MkIV at some point, but imagine it will be 1 year plus after its launched. I'm very happy with my 5D3 and 6D now and am still trying to develop my skills to fully maximize my equipment.


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## Bennymiata (Jul 27, 2015)

I love having the latest and greatest, but I still watch my pennies.
i bought a new 5D3 a week or so after they were released.
Everyone here in Oz was asking A$4k for them, but I saw an ad saying one of our major department stores was having a 20% off sale on all cameras, so I went in, and although they didn't have a 5D3 in stock, they could order one in for me and have it within a week.
So, I got the latest camera at a huge discount that no camera store would even consider.

You can find deals like this from retailers that you wouldn't normally think of.


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## pwp (Jul 27, 2015)

Eldar said:


> On the other hand ... life´s too short to postpone unavoidable decisions ... :


Yep sometimes you've just got to jump in. My 5D3 was full launch price but I more than made up the difference with my first job. I was just so glad to have it. From a pure business viewpoint, the ROI on the 5D3 has been completely spectacular.


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## unfocused (Jul 27, 2015)

sanj said:


> Dilbert was right...



Careful, those are fighting words. 

Seriously, I see that Canon Price Watch is now offering a $400 price drop on the 5D-s. Now, before a big argument starts about how this is a sure sign that Canon is *******, I wish to remind everyone that all of these price drops are dealer driven, and not the result of Canon cutting prices. 

I believe some of the price drops we have been seeing lately are related to two things.

First, I think authorized dealers are feeling pressure from the unauthorized import dealers in the U.S. who are taking advantage of favorable exchange rates to undercut official prices. Understandably, authorized dealers are trying to compete and seem to be getting quite creative about circumventing MAP. The most obvious being the Canon Price Watch "street price" program and the latest gimmick I've heard of – stores holding "demonstration days" and then selling off brand new bodies and lenses as "demo" items because they were unpackaged and put on display for an hour or two. 

Secondly, I think the realities of the mature market may be a factor as well. There have been countless discussions about the drop in camera sales overall. I am sure retailers are doing whatever they can to try to squeeze a few more dollars out of consumers and if that means discounting products and offering bundles for extra savings...well who can blame them. Camera manufacturers (like Canon) are well familiar with the ups and downs of the market and have built the contraction into their business plans. But, retailers tend to work on much smaller margins and don't generally have a lot of cash piled up to help them through lean times. Instead they cut prices and reduce their margins -- which is what I think is happening now.

Of course, cameras always drop in prices -- especially in the first year to 18 months. (Then again when they are nearing the model's end of life.) I do think it is pretty interesting though that the 5DIII seems to have dropped below what the 5DII was selling for at the end of its product cycle life. At the same time, it seems as though the 7DII is selling for less than the original 7D sold for even after several years on the market. 

That's actually making it very hard for me to resist a 7DII. I just have to rationalize why I need it.


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## sanj (Jul 27, 2015)

It is interesting, all my expensive gear (some of it I have sold now) was bought when just weeks before my Africa trips. 1dx, 5d3, 600mm etc. all bought days before and since I live in India I would go through nail biting experience hoping the items would reach me via friends before I left. 
So, we buy when we need I guess.


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## sanj (Jul 27, 2015)

tron said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



I just bought the 16-35 f4 IS for $900. New, box opened.


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## sanj (Jul 27, 2015)

pdirestajr said:


> If you stay a generation behind in camera bodies you will never be disappointed.
> 
> I'm still getting paid using a 5Dii. Only if my clients knew....they wouldn't care!



Wise strategy. Cameras these days have incremental progress (mostly). So 1 gen old camera gets the photo just fine. The new ones make it happen easier for sure.


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## romanr74 (Jul 27, 2015)

tron said:


> Have you noticed that newly introduced lenses have no issues? Also, their prices do not fall afterwards (exceptions are maybe the latest 24 2.8, 28 2.8 and 35 2.0).
> So there are no excuses for any delays in satisfying lens G.A.S ;D ;D ;D



This is not quite true; at least here in central europe lens prices drop quite a bit after introduction. The EF 11-24 for instance came down from above 3400 to below 3000...


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## Stu_bert (Jul 28, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Learnt my lesson with the price drops. Will not buy Canon gear at introduction. Just 6 months is enough for a price drop.
> ...



I do agree it is collective consumer behavior, but I dont think it is always people being stingy. For those with less disposable income, their cash flow is necessarily lower. Given the choice between say buying a Blu Ray player which costs $400 but last 10 years and a $40 player which lasts a year, they will go for the latter as it gives them something now, and they can replace it when it breaks.

That is fictitious of course, as technology advances quickly, but the point is of course not everyone can afford to pay top dollar.

Re books - yes, that is the downside of eBooks. The upside is the lack of space they occupy  I have many second hand books for photography research as they're cheap. I do however wonder if people will sell their ebooks in future. No reason why consumer pressure wont make it happen.

Same for films (streaming), Music (streaming or downloads). We trade convenience for value for money. Watch a film only once, streaming is cost effective. But as you say, you can't loan it, you can't watch it again.

I bought my first 1xx model second hand when the 5D II had many issues. Landscape photographers were not too worried by the AF problems of the 1Ds MK III, so we could pick up one not hugely more expensive than the 5d II was new. I still have the bodies. They still work extremely well (ignoring the AF issue) some 6 years on, which is of course one of Canon (and Nikon) strengths - built to last 

Buy at the price you're happy with, new or secondhand, and then fulfill the reasons you bought it for...


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## bmpress (Jul 28, 2015)

The camera industry has been consolidation with more buyouts to ensue. I can see Sony purchasing Nikon in the future for example. And camera technology is also at the mature end of its life cycle. Cameras are no longer a growth industry in the US and Japan. Perhaps more growth will come as India, China etc. raise the income of their population. But here the industry is one of replacement, ie. people purchase when their old camera has worn out.

Perhaps it is time to sell Canon and Nikon short?


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## NancyP (Jul 28, 2015)

I wait until some units are out there and have been reviewed by a lot of reviewers and used by a few amateurs. That approach has served me well, I like my two (60D and 6D). It's getting to be time to buy a 7D2 for birding - the early AF issues have settled out.


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## eml58 (Jul 29, 2015)

sanj said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > On the other hand ... life´s too short to postpone unavoidable decisions ... :
> ...



Tend to agree with Eldar, it comes out, I want it, now, I can wait, but not long, mainly because I want it, now.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 29, 2015)

tron said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



You listed three lenses and I merely added a 4th. The point is that all products start at a certain price, and the selling price drops over time. Certainly, currency valuation can have a impact on price, but its usually the early adopters who pay more. 

BTW, I received mine in the first shipment, and paid full price.


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## TexPhoto (Jul 29, 2015)

You can go either way. I sold my 5D2 for $2500 and bought a 5D3 for $3500 when they were announced. Yes the 5D3 came down, but so did the 5D2 used prices. And I shot with a 5D3 6 months earlier than if I had waited. 

Want it, Need it, OMG have to have it!, the decision is personal and will not be the same each time.


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## Valvebounce (Jul 29, 2015)

Hi eml. 
My Gran always said I want doesn't get! ;D 
I do know what you mean though, it can be a struggle when the only thing stopping me from acting on my wants is not having the cash! :  

Cheers, Graham. 



eml58 said:


> Tend to agree with Eldar, it comes out, I want it, now, I can wait, but not long, mainly because I want it, now.


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