# Calling all birders! - some advice please!



## Ivan Muller (Dec 11, 2015)

I am a novice bird photographer and yesterday I tried to photograph a pair of Paradise Flycatchers on a nest with three chicks. The only access is from a window a little above the nest. I haven't measure the exact distance but I guess its about three meters from the camera.

I have managed to get quite a few images even with the birds been fed etc. and here are two...

One lens a 70-300L and Eos M3 via adapter plus a tripod

With the lens on the M3 I am getting exposures of around: 1/400 f7.1 at 1600iso.

My problems are:

1. Very very little depth of field = I am not getting the whole nest and the bird in focus

2. Very low success rate with M3 AF, I think the AF 'box' is too big and sometimes it will pick the branch behind the bird to focus on. I have also tried MF which would seem to maybe work a little better. 

3. I have to use very high iso's to get acceptable min shutter speed and aperture. I am reluctant to go above 1600 but am going to try 3200iso next time.

4. I checked the Canon depth of field calc and on a crop sensor and equivalent focal length of 420mm (300x1.6) it is only 1.83cm at f16 and 3meters! - at f8 it is only 1.33cm..even at 300mm and f8 depth of field is only 2.74cm..

5. OK I know the M3 is probably the least suitable camera for the job, but it is what I've got...

6. Even with the equivalent 420mm lens I still have to crop quite a bit. I also zoomed out sometimes to improve (theoretically) the depth of field and to try and get the long tail in of the male bird...

The birds are very accessible and I am going back there again.

So is this just the way it is or is there a way I can improve matters?


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## chauncey (Dec 11, 2015)

I take it that you are shooting from inside the window with the window opened...right?
Your ISO is killing you, ya gotta drop it down somehow. One way would be to aim some lights 
at the nest and allow several days for the birds to acclimate themselves.

Also, you might consider shooting tethered using your Canon Utility Software, allowing manual 
control of your camera's settings.

If your PP skills are up to it...consider photo stacking.


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## weixing (Dec 11, 2015)

Hi,
Nice shot and beautiful bird. 

At such close distance, you won't be able to get the whole nest in focus at maximum zoom... to get more depth, you need to zoom out or don't look at the image on big screen or at 100%...  

IMHO, the most importance thing is get the bird eye in focus with a bit of catchlight, but do not use flash at such close distance... wait for nature light to hit the bird. Also, can use a slower shutter speed to lower the ISO. 

Also, be quiet, discreet, so not stress the birds... when the birds are more relax, they'll stay at the same spot or pause longer.

Be patience, happy shooting and enjoy the process of watching the chick grow and fledged at such close distance.

Have a nice day.


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## Ivan Muller (Dec 11, 2015)

thanks weixing!

Yes I sat quietly for about an hour or so...and then my battery ran out!

And yes looking at the depth of field tables it would seem that depth of field to cover the nest and the bird is out of the question ! 

Its actually the longest I have ever sat watching and trying to photograph a bird, its not my house but a friends, so unfortunately I wont be able to do it everyday, but yes its quite fascinating! Maybe it will become my new hobby....


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## bjd (Dec 13, 2015)

chauncey said:


> I take it that you are shooting from inside the window with the window opened...right?
> Your ISO is killing you, ya gotta drop it down somehow. One way would be to aim some lights
> at the nest and allow several days for the birds to acclimate themselves.
> 
> ...


If you have Sun, try to set up a reflector to reflect the Sun onto your subjects. May be easier than artificial lights, but not as reliable. 
Cheers Brian


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## AlanF (Dec 13, 2015)

They are very cute shots. I wouldn't worry about not have everything in focus.


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## Halfrack (Dec 13, 2015)

What you've shot looks great. Don't discount the window being an issue - if you don't have the ability to open it, maybe create a skirt to make sure you don't get any cross-light glare. Also, trade off keepers with shooting at 1/125th at a lower iso - birds are twitchy so just shoot a lot more, and know most aren't going to be sharp, but the few you get will like you more. Also shoot a stop under to see if pulling it up in post production works to your taste. 

+1 on trying a reflector or piece of white foam board to add light.


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## 9VIII (Dec 13, 2015)

The only thing I can think of that might help is a tripod, you've obviously got a stable situation, so that would at least allow you to select the shutter speed of your choice.
I'm not sure if I would even want a shutter speed much lower than 1/400 for little birds though, but it might be worth a shot.

I suggest that remote shooting is something everyone should be able to do anyway, it opens you up to shooting Macro and Astro and anything where the camera is in an awkward position.


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## quod (Dec 14, 2015)

I would probably go for using a flash and stopping down. If you don't like the reflection in the eye(s), you can edit it out. 

The suggestion to focus stack is a good one. If you focus on different elements in the scene (e.g., the foreground, the babies, the mother, the background), and then composite them together using masks, you can get a complete shot with the entire scene in focus. You really need a tripod or some way to stabilize the camera in one spot while you take all of the photos.


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## IslanderMV (Dec 14, 2015)

First off, great bird. I had to look it up, most probably an *African* Paradise Flycatcher. Your shot is very good as is. ( Most of the folks here would love to be in your shoes.)

f.7.1 is not bad for what you are doing, 

Since you have a tripod, try shooting slower and increase the aperture up to f10 or so. 

Hopefully you can get some keepers in those moments when the bird is still. Also back off a bit, that tail is a big part of the story, it is cut off in your picts.

Have fun and good luck !


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## sanj (Dec 14, 2015)

Don't kill me for saying this but a DSLR will help the situation a lot.
Nice bird and photos.


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## Ozarker (Dec 14, 2015)

Those are some wonderful photos. I would be very happy with those. What great subjects!


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## Ivan Muller (Dec 15, 2015)

Thanks all for the very good advice!!

Unfortunately nature is harsh & cruel & without pity - we have had some heavy rains and thunderstorms over the weekend and the chicks did not survive...not sure if the adults survived either....

So unfortunately I will have to go and try out all the good tips and advice some other place & time...

I have processed some more images and discovered a series of pics where it clearly shows the father pulling out 'poop' -if that is the correct term? - from one of the chicks so that the nest stays clean, I presume and he then flies away with it presumably to drop it elsewhere....

Included a few more...

Regards, Ivan


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## Ivan Muller (Dec 15, 2015)

some more....


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## lion rock (Dec 15, 2015)

Ivan,
Your lost is also ours, too. It is sad to loose a clutch, a generation of beautiful creatures. Hope you can find them elsewhere.
In the meantime, you can collect more gear and set up a good location for shots next season. Who knows, the parents may survive and return the the nesting site.
Good luck! Hope to see more of your shots.
-r


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## Ivan Muller (Dec 15, 2015)

thanks Lion rock,

Apparently its rare for the parents to return, but in this case it was their 2nd season...so maybe 3rd time lucky next year...


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