# 650D (T4i) or 600D (T3i)



## lolage (Jun 8, 2012)

Hi, bit of an awkward decision to make..! I want this for 75% video, 25% photo. I can basically get the 600D body in the UK for £459 due to buying a KISS version in the UK. 

Will the 650D really be much of an upgrade to justify spending £700 on the body in comparison? I like the fact it has autofocus but its not really a big play advantage really. I'm more interested in the better quality for video and potentially fixing moire and just generally having a newer camera.

What would you guys do? Also with the 600D I know for sure I'll get the 3x digital zoom.

Cheers, Ben.


----------



## JasonATL (Jun 11, 2012)

Ben,

I'll assume that auto focus during video isn't that big of a deal to you. If it is, then read no further and just buy the 650D, since the 600D doesn't have it.

I have a 600D/T3i. As you mention, the 3x zoom is a great feature of the 600D and I still have not found out whether the 650D has it. If the 650D suffers from the same moire/aliasing issues as the 550D and 600D and doesn't have the 3x-10x zoom, then the 600D is a clear winner to me, since the 3x function also serves to eliminate moire on the 600D, without a loss in resolution.

If the 650D has less moire issues than the 600D and better ISO performance, then I'd opt for the 650D. However, I suspect that the 650D does not significantly improve on moire/aliasing or ISO performance, or else this probably would have been trumpeted by Canon. If you can wait, then wait for some people to do hands-on tests of the video with it.

Finally, a very large advantage of the 600D over the 650D right now is the ability to install Magic Lantern's firmware upgrade that gives a lot of very nice video features.


----------



## tomfu (Jun 11, 2012)

Rebel t4i has improved movie recording including Continuous AF with subject tracking, other new features see rebel t3i vs t4i, I think it is more suit for you than the old t3i.


----------



## JasonATL (Jun 16, 2012)

Now that it is confirmed that the 650D/T4i cannot do 3x-10x zoom and that it suffers from as much moire/aliasing as the T2i and T3i, I see no reason for anyone interested in video to buy the T4i UNLESS the autofocus is a key feature for them. Plus, Magic Lantern already works on the T3i.

If my I needed to replace my T3i or T2i, I would get another T3i.

I hope that the 7D or 60D replacements improve on the moire/aliasing. Until then, the T3i is the camera to beat, in my opinion.


----------



## lolage (Jun 18, 2012)

Yeah I think I'm going to go for the 600D. 

Pros for 600D for me:
- cheaper to buy other accessories/put towards other lenses
- magic lantern
- 3x zoom
- no need to buy new STM lenses

Pros for 650D:
- autofocus


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Jun 19, 2012)

An impossible question to answer, as the 650D's haven't had any comprehensive reviews as yet, and particularly as even the big reviewers don't tend to dwell on video so much.

What I can say is that I use the 600D and am very happy with it. I use it for about the same ratio, 75% video, 25% stills.

I also use a 7D for video, and the 600D replaced my 550D.

From a video point of view I would be interested in if the new 650D is any cleaner in the shadows and at higher ISO's. The Q-scale function also interests me (user set video bitrate)

I can say that if you buy a 600D today you are getting a well sorted camera. If you are an early adopter you may have bugs and pay over the odds for the 650D, but if you can wait a month or so... you might be able to get yourself an even better camera with revised firmware.

I don't run ML. Camera does all I need without it, so for me that wouldn't be a deal breaker.


----------



## JasonATL (Jun 20, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> From a video point of view I would be interested in if the new 650D is any cleaner in the shadows and at higher ISO's. The Q-scale function also interests me (user set video bitrate)
> ...
> I don't run ML. Camera does all I need without it, so for me that wouldn't be a deal breaker.



Paul - You make very good points. The Q-scale is interesting. Since you mentioned that you don't use ML, you might or might not already know this: ML allows you to set a higher (or lower) bitrate on the 600D/T3i (which sounds like the Q-scale).

By chance, I was experimenting with this recently and it works - though not without some qualifications. The ML bitrate multiplier has been reliable for me at 1.4x (with audio on). Of course, this comes with a resulting larger file per minute of video. With audio disabled, I was able to go up to 2.3x reliably. I can achieve 3.0x in a low dynamic range environment (even with audio). Of course, the benefits of a higher bit rate are also less apparent in the latter case. 

The highest (video-only) resulting average bit rate that I was able to achieve without the camera stopping the recording was a little north of 100 Mbps. Again, I shot at 3.0x indoors, but the resulting bitrate in that situation was only around 70 Mbps. Quite nice resulting picture, though not night and day compared to 1.0x. And, a test at 0.2x at 7 kbps was completely watchable, though I wouldn't ever use it for a serious video. Of course, the bit rate can't solve the 600D's moire/aliasing problems nor can it increase the actual resolution. But, it does what it does.

I mention this in case you tried ML a long time ago and might consider it again, given your interest in Q-scale. The latest version (from December) has been very stable on my 600D.


----------



## RLPhoto (Jun 20, 2012)

Get a 600D, its a time tested and proven entry level camera.


----------

