# Industry News: SD Express Delivers New Gigabyte Speeds for SD Memory Cards



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 20, 2020)

> SAN RAMON, Calif.–(BUSINESS WIRE)–The SD Association announced today the SD 8.0 Specification for SD Express memory cards receives even faster transfer speeds by using the popular PCI Express® (PCIe®) 4.0 specification delivering a maximum of nearly 4 gigabytes per second (GB/s) data transfer rate. These full-sized cards continue to use the NVMe Express™ (NVMe™) upper layer protocol enabling advanced memory access mechanism. As always SD Express memory cards using SD 8.0 specification maintain backward compatibility.
> “SD Express’ use of even faster PCIe and NVMe architectures to deliver faster transfer speeds creates more opportunities for devices to use SD memory cards,” said Mats Larsson, Senior Market Analyst at Futuresource. “This combination of trusted and well-known technologies makes it easier for future product designs to leverage the benefits of removable storage in new ways.”
> 
> SD Express gigabyte speeds bring new...



Continue reading...


----------



## Antono Refa (May 20, 2020)

Has any manufacturer made cards / devices supporting UHS-III or SD Express with PCIe Gen 3x1, that the standards committee is churning out new standards?

I don't see any point in releasing UHS-III cards / slots at this time. Nobody would buy UHS-III cards, as it would be limited to UHS-I speeds when SDExpress comes out. For anything larger than a smartphone, I doubt anyone would care about the size advantage, esp as manufacturers solved all the kinks in CFExpress.


----------



## cayenne (May 20, 2020)

I'm a complete noob when it comes to memory card specs, etc....BUT.....since I believe the new R5 will be coming out with 2 slots and one of them is a SD slot, would fast SD cards like this be able to carry the weight of 4K and 8K video? 
Would this remove the bottle neck for people that are concerned that if you want to write to both cards at once that the SD card would present a bottleneck?

Just curious.

C


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (May 20, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'm a complete noob when it comes to memory card specs, etc....BUT.....since I believe the new R5 will be coming out with 2 slots and one of them is a SD slot, would fast SD cards like this be able to carry the weight of 4K and 8K video?
> Would this remove the bottle neck for people that are concerned that if you want to write to both cards at once that the SD card would present a bottleneck?
> 
> Just curious.
> ...



SD Express and CF Express are quite comparable in speed. It'll be a long time before any application can outrun ether card, that includes 8K video. Though I don't think you'll see a camera that has SDE and CFE slots in it as duel slots of ether would be cheeper to shove in.


----------



## raptor3x (May 20, 2020)

Antono Refa said:


> Has any manufacturer made cards / devices supporting UHS-III or SD Express with PCIe Gen 3x1, that the standards committee is churning out new standards?
> 
> I don't see any point in releasing UHS-III cards / slots at this time. Nobody would buy UHS-III cards, as it would be limited to UHS-I speeds when SDExpress comes out. For anything larger than a smartphone, I doubt anyone would care about the size advantage, esp as manufacturers solved all the kinks in CFExpress.



We're still only using about half of the UHS-II capability. Maybe we'll see these new SDExpress cards in 2040.


----------



## RayValdez360 (May 20, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'm a complete noob when it comes to memory card specs, etc....BUT.....since I believe the new R5 will be coming out with 2 slots and one of them is a SD slot, would fast SD cards like this be able to carry the weight of 4K and 8K video?
> Would this remove the bottle neck for people that are concerned that if you want to write to both cards at once that the SD card would present a bottleneck?
> 
> Just curious.
> ...


no, the circuits would have to be engineered to transfer data that fast.


----------



## koenkooi (May 20, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'm a complete noob when it comes to memory card specs, etc....BUT.....since I believe the new R5 will be coming out with 2 slots and one of them is a SD slot, would fast SD cards like this be able to carry the weight of 4K and 8K video?
> [..]



Only if Canon has already added support for PCIe mode to its DIGIC, these kind of specifications aren't forward compatible. It won't make existing slots faster. Quite to opposite, SDexpress cards drop down to UHS-I speeds when they can't do PCIe.
So for the R/RP/R5 a regular UHS-II card would be the fasted option for the SD slot.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (May 20, 2020)

Would a card such as this provide any performance improvement in an 80D? Or has it reached its write speed limits with the Sandisk extremes?


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (May 20, 2020)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Would a card such as this provide any performance improvement in an 80D? Or has it reached its write speed limits with the Sandisk extremes?



It'll run slower than your existing card on your 80D.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 20, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'm a complete noob when it comes to memory card specs, etc....BUT.....since I believe the new R5 will be coming out with 2 slots and one of them is a SD slot, would fast SD cards like this be able to carry the weight of 4K and 8K video?
> Would this remove the bottle neck for people that are concerned that if you want to write to both cards at once that the SD card would present a bottleneck?
> 
> Just curious.
> ...


The R5 uses technology available at least 2 years ago when the camera was designed. Just like most products, a DSLR is technically out of date when it ships, but its the latest tech that is ppractical to build. 

When a new card is announced, it takes years for controllers and reliable software and hardware to get to the market in quantities and at a reasonable price. There may be limited quantities of very expensive hardware a little sooner, but its not mature and it costs a bundle. I suspect a lot of finance people winced at the CFE specification.


----------



## Sharlin (May 20, 2020)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Would a card such as this provide any performance improvement in an 80D? Or has it reached its write speed limits with the Sandisk extremes?



The camera only supports UHS-I protocol, which is several generations behind these new-fangled cards. Even if the hardware were faster (it isn't) the protocol limits the maximum speed. These cards would still work, because they're backward compatible, but would give no speedup compared to the fastest UHS-I card on market. Indeed, they could be slower due to having to emulate the legacy protocol.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 20, 2020)

SD card speeds are advertised for new unused cards or those which have low level formatting. People buy the cards, take a video or fill them up, then format them and the next time they want to take a video, it won't work because the card is far too slow. That's because it is first erasing a block of memory before you can write to it. 

So, if using a SD card for video and it has been mostly filled before, or you intend to fill it, do a low level format first. It resets all the memory to as new status. You don't want to do it unless needed, memory does wear out, and resetting every memory cell each time you format does add up.


----------



## cayenne (May 20, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> SD card speeds are advertised for new unused cards or those which have low level formatting. People buy the cards, take a video or fill them up, then format them and the next time they want to take a video, it won't work because the card is far too slow. That's because it is first erasing a block of memory before you can write to it.
> 
> So, if using a SD card for video and it has been mostly filled before, or you intend to fill it, do a low level format first. It resets all the memory to as new status. You don't want to do it unless needed, memory does wear out, and resetting every memory cell each time you format does add up.



Oh..that's interesting.

I've got a 5D3....I always format my cards before use (after I've unloaded them to computer)....in the camera. I'd assumed this was a low level format?

Cayenne


----------



## bandido (May 20, 2020)

All those pins in the back make me nervous. The more rows of pins they add the more flimsy the card becomes.


----------



## neurorx (May 20, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'm a complete noob when it comes to memory card specs, etc....BUT.....since I believe the new R5 will be coming out with 2 slots and one of them is a SD slot, would fast SD cards like this be able to carry the weight of 4K and 8K video?
> Would this remove the bottle neck for people that are concerned that if you want to write to both cards at once that the SD card would present a bottleneck?
> 
> Just curious.
> ...


----------



## Frodo (May 20, 2020)

bandido said:


> All those pins in the back make me nervous. The more rows of pins they add the more flimsy the card becomes.


Sony Tough SD cards have the contacts sitting flush with the card with virtually no chance of damage. I experienced a 7D that bent a pin in the CF card slot. I've broken the ribs separating contacts on regular SD cards. Won't happen with Sony Tough.


----------



## definedphotography (May 20, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I've got a 5D3....I always format my cards before use (after I've unloaded them to computer)....in the camera. I'd assumed this was a low level format?



There's 2 format options. One is a quick format which just resets all the file headers meaning the space on the card is free. The other is a low level format that takes a lot longer comparatively.


----------



## brad-man (May 20, 2020)

So the take-away is that the R5 has yet to be released, but is already obsolete. How depressing...


----------



## Antono Refa (May 21, 2020)

raptor3x said:


> We're still only using about half of the UHS-II capability.



For video, sure. For shooting stills continuously, there's a reason the 1D X mark III has a CFExpress slot.


----------



## Antono Refa (May 21, 2020)

brad-man said:


> So the take-away is that the R5 has yet to be released, but is already obsolete. How depressing...



"Available at least 2 years ago when the camera was designed" is not the same as "obsolete".

E.g. the four years old 5DmkIV has a UHS-I slot. UHS-I cards are very much in stock, as are SD card readers, and Canon will fix the slot if broken. Nothing obsolete about it.


----------



## Ozarker (May 21, 2020)

brad-man said:


> So the take-away is that the R5 has yet to be released, but is already obsolete. How depressing...


Before "cripple hammer" was in vogue, I can remember when "obsolete" was the favorite word around here... sometimes a month or two after a new product was released.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (May 21, 2020)

brad-man said:


> So the take-away is that the R5 has yet to be released, but is already obsolete. How depressing...



It has a CF Express slot which is now the main format for pro bodies and will be even with SD Express. The SD slot on the R5 is there for your backups and you can be sure that if SD Express was available the R5's SD slot wouldn't have it. It would be cheeper to put in two CF Express slots.


----------



## brad-man (May 21, 2020)

The worst of it is that I'll be waiting for it to hit my price. Probably take a year and a half. By that time it will be downright ancient...


----------



## koenkooi (May 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> It has a CF Express slot which is now the main format for pro bodies and will be even with SD Express. The SD slot on the R5 is there for your backups and you can be sure that if SD Express was available the R5's SD slot wouldn't have it. It would be cheeper to put in two CF Express slots.



I strongly believe that using CFe+SD on the R5 wasn't because of cost, but for segmentation and marketing reasons.


----------



## PureClassA (May 21, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Oh..that's interesting.
> 
> I've got a 5D3....I always format my cards before use (after I've unloaded them to computer)....in the camera. I'd assumed this was a low level format?
> 
> Cayenne


After a few times that isnt gonna work so well. Once a year at a particular multi day event, I will fill and dump a large CFast2.0 card several times. Using the IN CAMERA format does not do nearly as complete a job as a full format using a full desktop OS. Windows or OSX. When I shoot this event each year, I bring the card reader and my MacBook Pro with an external SSD to dump files between shows and then once dumped, I use the Mac OSX Disk Doctor tool to do a proper format of the card. 

What was happening before I learned this was that by the third show (following the second card dump and subsequent formatting inside the DX2) my buffer was starting to clog somewhat as the write speeds were slowing down the camera. By the forth show, my 14fps bursts were becoming more seriously impacted and limited as the DX2 was just seizing up if I was holding down the shutter for multi second bursts (to catch dancers in flight) and i would be dead in the water waiting for 10-20 seconds or more for the buffer to dump i to the card because you can see the buffer counter in the OVF on the DX2 and watch it as you fire. Needless to say the DX2 should not have this problem. Ever. And the first and second shows, it did not. But with each in camera format of that $350 memory card, I was clogging it up more and more. Had I been shooting one or a few frames at a time? Never would notice. But if you are gonna work that shutter like a dog for sports and dance.... you better learn to travel with a computer that can do a proper format. Once I figured that out, I never ever had a problem with cards again.


----------



## PureClassA (May 21, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I strongly believe that using CFe+SD on the R5 wasn't because of cost, but for segmentation and marketing reasons.


Bingo. SD cards can handle 90% or more of the Stills shooting situations this camera will be most Often used for. 
CFExpress is primarily being introduced for the more robust needs particularly with the 8k30 4k60 and 4k120 video capabilities. Those cant happen with SD and I’d suspect even the 12-20fps stills in RAW would demand a more serious card than SD if you try to do a multi second burst.


----------



## cayenne (May 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> After a few times that isnt gonna work so well. Once a year at a particular multi day event, I will fill and dump a large CFast2.0 card several times. Using the IN CAMERA format does not do nearly as complete a job as a full format using a full desktop OS. Windows or OSX. When I shoot this event each year, I bring the card reader and my MacBook Pro with an external SSD to dump files between shows and then once dumped, I use the Mac OSX Disk Doctor tool to do a proper format of the card.
> 
> What was happening before I learned this was that by the third show (following the second card dump and subsequent formatting inside the DX2) my buffer was starting to clog somewhat as the write speeds were slowing down the camera. By the forth show, my 14fps bursts were becoming more seriously impacted and limited as the DX2 was just seizing up if I was holding down the shutter for multi second bursts (to catch dancers in flight) and i would be dead in the water waiting for 10-20 seconds or more for the buffer to dump i to the card because you can see the buffer counter in the OVF on the DX2 and watch it as you fire. Needless to say the DX2 should not have this problem. Ever. And the first and second shows, it did not. But with each in camera format of that $350 memory card, I was clogging it up more and more. Had I been shooting one or a few frames at a time? Never would notice. But if you are gonna work that shutter like a dog for sports and dance.... you better learn to travel with a computer that can do a proper format. Once I figured that out, I never ever had a problem with cards again.




That's interesting.
Back when I got my 5D3, I thought the mantra then was that it was MUCH better to format your cards in camera rather than on a computer....?
I"ve been following that ever since...and I do low level formats each time in camera.

Granted I'm using older CF cards and SD cards (primarily as spillover cards).....is this something that maybe has changed with newer cards?

C


----------



## koenkooi (May 21, 2020)

cayenne said:


> That's interesting.
> Back when I got my 5D3, I thought the mantra then was that it was MUCH better to format your cards in camera rather than on a computer....?
> I"ve been following that ever since...and I do low level formats each time in camera.
> 
> Granted I'm using older CF cards and SD cards (primarily as spillover cards).....is this something that maybe has changed with newer cards?



With that generation of cameras the camera would use exFAT to format the card, while most computers would use VFAT. It made a noticeable difference in write speeds, not sure why.
But as it is with things like this: test it yourself, different brands behave differently.


----------



## magarity (May 21, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> So, if using a SD card for video and it has been mostly filled before, or you intend to fill it, do a low level format first. It resets all the memory to as new status. You don't want to do it unless needed, memory does wear out, and resetting every memory cell each time you format does add up.


The "full format" (which I assume is what you mean by "low level" (which is something else even more extreme)) done by the operating system, either Windows or iOS, is crappy for SD cards. The OS formatter is meant to do anything from hard drives to SSDs to floppy disks if you can find one. What you really want to do is go to www.sdcard.org which is the SD card standards organization and download their SD card format utility. Then choose between quick or full. This is superior to the quick and full options of the OS's format.


----------



## cayenne (May 21, 2020)

magarity said:


> The "full format" (which I assume is what you mean by "low level" (which is something else even more extreme)) done by the operating system, either Windows or iOS, is crappy for SD cards. The OS formatter is meant to do anything from hard drives to SSDs to floppy disks if you can find one. What you really want to do is go to www.sdcard.org which is the SD card standards organization and download their SD card format utility. Then choose between quick or full. This is superior to the quick and full options of the OS's format.



How do you rate that SD standards format utility vs the one in camera?


----------



## bandido (May 21, 2020)

Frodo said:


> Sony Tough SD cards have the contacts sitting flush with the card with virtually no chance of damage. I experienced a 7D that bent a pin in the CF card slot. I've broken the ribs separating contacts on regular SD cards. Won't happen with Sony Tough.


I would definitely use the Sony Tough SD cards even though they are more expensive. I wish other manufactures would make similar cards. Still, try not to touch those pins.


----------



## PureClassA (May 21, 2020)

cayenne said:


> That's interesting.
> Back when I got my 5D3, I thought the mantra then was that it was MUCH better to format your cards in camera rather than on a computer....?
> I"ve been following that ever since...and I do low level formats each time in camera.
> 
> ...


The camera doesn't clean the card nearly as effectively. Again, this isnt something you need to do every single time.

And when I do it on a computer I format it to EXFAT (if you’re using a larger card). Once it gets in camera, it will write its usual Canon folders to it


----------



## Ozarker (May 22, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> After a few times that isnt gonna work so well. Once a year at a particular multi day event, I will fill and dump a large CFast2.0 card several times. Using the IN CAMERA format does not do nearly as complete a job as a full format using a full desktop OS. Windows or OSX. When I shoot this event each year, I bring the card reader and my MacBook Pro with an external SSD to dump files between shows and then once dumped, I use the Mac OSX Disk Doctor tool to do a proper format of the card.
> 
> What was happening before I learned this was that by the third show (following the second card dump and subsequent formatting inside the DX2) my buffer was starting to clog somewhat as the write speeds were slowing down the camera. By the forth show, my 14fps bursts were becoming more seriously impacted and limited as the DX2 was just seizing up if I was holding down the shutter for multi second bursts (to catch dancers in flight) and i would be dead in the water waiting for 10-20 seconds or more for the buffer to dump i to the card because you can see the buffer counter in the OVF on the DX2 and watch it as you fire. Needless to say the DX2 should not have this problem. Ever. And the first and second shows, it did not. But with each in camera format of that $350 memory card, I was clogging it up more and more. Had I been shooting one or a few frames at a time? Never would notice. But if you are gonna work that shutter like a dog for sports and dance.... you better learn to travel with a computer that can do a proper format. Once I figured that out, I never ever had a problem with cards again.


Good to know. Thank you. I had always assumed the in camera format was the same.


----------



## PureClassA (May 22, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Good to know. Thank you. I had always assumed the in camera format was the same.


I found out the hard way, choking a card with multi second bursts after several in camera formats. I thought either the camera buffer was going bad or the card was. Did some digging online and discovered what was happening. After using Disk Doctor to do the format it was like a brand new card again. No buffer problems, no write choking. You just have to make sure you use the correct formatting spec. So if you're on a Mac forexample, Disk Doctor will want to default to MAC OS Extended journal.... Don't do that... Just make sure if the card is over 64MB (i think it's 64) you going to want to use EXFAT.

Now another thing I learned I should mention is if you guys are shooting video especially on some older model cameras, sometimes you'll find your longer clips have been cut into multiple files even if you didn't stop the roll. That's also a formatting issue. The EXFAT format even on smaller cards will prevent that and some of the older cameras like the 5D3 still wanted to do older FAT formats in camera, where as if you take the card and do an EXFAT format on a computer, the file sizes won't be limited to 4GB and in turn break up your long video clip.

....or you just use an external recorder with a 1TB SSD and none of this is at issue. Honestly if you look at having to buy 3-4 CFast2.0 or CF Express cards, you 'll be far better off and come in cheaper buying a Ninja V with a fast SSD

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4056550


----------



## koenkooi (May 22, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> ....or you just use an external recorder with a 1TB SSD and none of this is at issue. Honestly if you look at having to buy 3-4 CFast2.0 or CF Express cards, you 'll be far better off and come in cheaper buying a Ninja V with a fast SSD
> 
> https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4056550


That works if your hdmi out can do the same as the internal recorder, AIUI the 1dx3 and r5 can’t output full res to hdmi, so for the 5.5 and 8k you’re stuck with CFe.


----------



## PureClassA (May 22, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> That works if your hdmi out can do the same as the internal recorder, AIUI the 1dx3 and r5 can’t output full res to hdmi, so for the 5.5 and 8k you’re stuck with CFe.


Correct. It's camera dependent. But for MOST recording applications, which would be in either 1080p and 4K at framerates up to 60fps, the Ninja will handle them just fine and at 10bit 422 C-Log if you're using an EOS R, 5D4, or 1dx3 as of now... The soon-to-be R5, yes internal only if you want to film at 4k120 or 8K. But how often are those modes going be used compared to the others. Probably not near as much. And that's mostly due to HDMI protocols not being quite up to snuff on delivering those speeds yet. That's why you'll find SDI ports on the upper end Cinema cameras


----------



## magarity (May 22, 2020)

cayenne said:


> How do you rate that SD standards format utility vs the one in camera?


Excellent question that's hard to answer without knowing what the camera utility is doing which is hard to guess. SD group's utility claims to be the most optimized for SD cards, so it's hard to imagine what might be better.


----------



## scottburgess (May 24, 2020)

bandido said:


> I would definitely use the Sony Tough SD cards even though they are more expensive. I wish other manufactures would make similar cards. Still, try not to touch those pins.



If it was like most Sony products, you'd have to buy a Sony Playstation system to format it, a Sony camera to read it, and a Sony robot to lock/unlock it.


----------



## Antono Refa (May 25, 2020)

SanDisk is developing an SD Express card.


----------



## cpsico (May 25, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


What about heat dissipation in such a small form factor. These high speeds have to come at some price


----------

