# Will there be any announcements from Canon ahead of CP+ this month?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 2, 2021)

> The CP+ Camera & Photo Imaging Show in Yokohama, Japan is normally a time that the Japanese camera companies make major announcements or show off major products that haven’t begun shipping. The Canon EOS-1D X Mark III and the Canon EOS RP are a couple of the big announcements in the last couple of years.
> Obviously, this is not a normal year.
> So is Canon going to be announcing anything ahead of the CP+ 2021 virtual trade show that begins on February 25, 2021?
> Judging by the lack of leaks, patents and other signs pointing at a major product announcement, for the moment it looks like Canon is going to be pretty quiet for the show.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## amorse (Feb 2, 2021)

I'll be long shot hoping for the higher resolution version of the R5, but considering the silence I'm betting that's not happening. I can wish!


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## cuboci (Feb 2, 2021)

> new feature firmware update for cameras like the EOS R5, EOS R6 and EOS-1D X Mark III



What kind of feature were you thinking of that they might add?


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## dolina (Feb 2, 2021)

R1! R1! R1!


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## Alan B (Feb 2, 2021)

1. Animal eye detection for the 1DX Mark III, even if it's just for live view(i feel left out not having that feature on mine, after the R5 came out with it)
2. R1
3. RF Prime lenses


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## Hector1970 (Feb 2, 2021)

I'd go for animal eye detection as well for the 1DXIII preferable through the viewfinder but I'd expect only live view - not a camera thats the best suited to using live view.
I'd also go for a high MP R5 style camera. That would probably be my next purchase and entry into the Canon Mirrorless Universe.

Not much other than that. I think I coming to the end of GAS. 
Its getting hard to see how they can improve on what I have.
I'm good with the image quality of the 5D mark IV. So even though they've probably surpassed it already that is not limiting me.
The last great improvement for me would be intelligent tracking of moving objects against a background like birds in flight.
The IDX III is better than all my other cameras but still has room for alot of improvement. 
It's very good with big objects but still limited on smaller objects like birds (the user probably could do with a skills upgrade too - I'm no AlanF)


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## josephandrews222 (Feb 2, 2021)

...announcement pertaining to release date for the upcoming EOS M6 Mark III !


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## jvillain (Feb 2, 2021)

I agree that it is hard to imagine Canon not doing any thing. But I am at a loss. Maybe some thing new in the M line up.


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## AJ (Feb 2, 2021)

R7.
R1 will be a while yet, methinks


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## landon (Feb 2, 2021)

The R5 & R6 is doing very well, even more so after the A1 announcement. So I think any new cameras will be a while yet.


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## LeBlobe (Feb 2, 2021)

More RF lenses or more native third party options by sharing their RF secrets! new GPS receiver that work 100% on all recent R bodies. RF extensions tubes.

Realistically just knowing a better roadmap with what is next 2-3 lenses would be cool.


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## john1970 (Feb 2, 2021)

I second the request for RF extension tubes. I do not need them yet, but eventually I will. Easy to manufacture as well.


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## SteveC (Feb 2, 2021)

josephandrews222 said:


> ...announcement pertaining to release date for the upcoming EOS M6 Mark III !



Actually I think the M5 Mark II is more overdue! (And I'd have to open my wallet for that one.)


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## SteveC (Feb 2, 2021)

jvillain said:


> I agree that it is hard to imagine Canon not doing any thing. But I am at a loss. Maybe some thing new in the M line up.



Six months later people would resume talking about the "inevitable" demise of the M series.


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## slclick (Feb 2, 2021)

I'm not asking for much, just the R6 in the Refurb Store. I have determined it will be the replacement for my 5D3. Not one to fall into the >MP trap.


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## landscaper (Feb 2, 2021)

Please CANON !! 

We Need an Announcement at CP+ Show 
About the High Megapixel (90 MP ? ) 

R5S or RS 

Camera with 300 Megapixel Pixel Shift 
Feature 

We've been waiting for 6 Years 
Since the 5Ds/5DSr in 2015 !!

SONY IS REFRESHING THERE MODELS EVERY 24 MONTHS 

If there is no Announcement at the CP+ Show,
I will be Reluctantly be Moving over to the 
FUJI GFX 100s System or SONY A7X Models 

After 45 years with CANON


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## usern4cr (Feb 2, 2021)

landscaper said:


> If there is no Announcement at the CP+ Show,
> I will be Reluctantly be Moving over to the
> FUJI GFX 100s System or SONY A7X Models
> 
> After 45 years with CANON


If you've been with Canon for 45 years, and the R5 isn't good enough for you now, and you can't wait any longer than 4 weeks from now or else you "jump ship" to GFX or A7X, then I guess you're not as into Canon as the rest of us. Hope you enjoy whatever you jump to, if that happens.


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## usern4cr (Feb 2, 2021)

Most importantly (for me), I hope we get more info on future RF lenses to come and possible rough time frames.
Secondly, it'd be nice to hear more about the next R1 or whatever bodies that will come out.
Otherwise, at least give us more tidbits on technology like quad pixels, possible sensor resolutions, EVFs etc.


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## John Wilde (Feb 2, 2021)

Canon could acknowledge the existence of M. They have been awfully quiet about it, leading to negative rumors.


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## neurorx (Feb 2, 2021)

Hoping for an announcement of the RF 135mm f1.4L!


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## slclick (Feb 2, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> If you've been with Canon for 45 years, and the R5 isn't good enough for you now, and you can't wait any longer than 4 weeks from now or else you "jump ship" to GFX or A7X, then I guess you're not as into Canon as the rest of us. Hope you enjoy whatever you jump to, if that happens.


The potential marginal gains these ship jumpers desire, it kills me. I cannot imagine going through all the hassles of selling my bodies and glass for a 1/2 stop of DR or a mini xlr port etc etc.

Enjoy the skintones and crap menus.


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## bbasiaga (Feb 2, 2021)

landscaper said:


> Please CANON !!
> 
> We Need an Announcement at CP+ Show
> About the High Megapixel (90 MP ? )
> ...


Really? I mean....that's a lot of money to commit to change. Maybe you're just looking for an excuse to go medium format, and I guess that's fine. Or maybe your current gear has stopped working and you are unable to make money to support yourself, though the most expedient way to get back in business then would be to buy another of whatever you already have. 

Or maybe you just have to have something new RIGHT NOW to satisfy the dopamine receptors we've all developed an addiction to. I know I suffer from that from time to time. I guess from my perspective as a hobbyist I just can't see a line in the sand where something is needed, or else "canon has given us no choice but to switch". 



-Brian


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## privatebydesign (Feb 2, 2021)

landscaper said:


> Please CANON !!
> 
> We Need an Announcement at CP+ Show
> About the High Megapixel (90 MP ? )
> ...


What utter dross. 

What image quality improvements are Sony bringing every 24 months for a landscape shooter?

Anybody that is comparing 135 format 50mp 14 bit output to digital ‘medium format’ 102mp 16 bit output for landscape use simply hasn’t used or doesn’t need the several year old current 102mp medium format look/style/IQ benefits.

What you say you need has been here for years, only better! And it now comes at a bargain price...


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## Nemorino (Feb 2, 2021)

slclick said:


> I cannot imagine going through all the hassles of selling my bodies and glass for a 1/2 stop of DR or a mini xlr port etc etc.


Talk is cheap.


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## LesC (Feb 2, 2021)

I'd be happy with focus bracketing for the EOS R


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## David - Sydney (Feb 2, 2021)

Publicly, the only thing that Canon has promised which is outstanding is the next firmware release for the R5. Anything else? Given the price point of the A1, Canon may not feel the need to push this out quickly and may add other features which would be nice but the video data rates is the main feature. Fixing phenomenon like the infrequent freeze would be greatfully accepted.


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## peters (Feb 2, 2021)

External 4k RAW for the R5 would be anything I wish for


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## joestopper (Feb 2, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



A develepement announcement for the R5S, please ...


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## rbr (Feb 2, 2021)

I'm eager for the announcement of the new wide R f4 zoom. Will it be 14mm at the wide end and when will it hit the streets? Also, I second that request for R extension tubes. I use my EF100-400II frequently with tubes for wildflowers. Canon isn't selling me a 100-500 until I have some reliable tubes to use with it.


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## PKinDenmark (Feb 2, 2021)

Not suffering badly from GAS just now (happy with R5, RF24-105 f4 and RF 100-500mm).
However a firmware upgrade offering 'Pro Capture' (an Olympus-term) would be a great feature.
Most curious about plans for RF-native 'big whites' - primes (and perhaps also faster zooms - faster than 100-500 that is).


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## mclaren777 (Feb 2, 2021)

5DV! 5DV! 5DV!


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## ncvarsity3 (Feb 3, 2021)

I'm just hoping they'll announce a plan for all of these back ordered products they've sold.


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## JohnC (Feb 3, 2021)

amorse said:


> I'll be long shot hoping for the higher resolution version of the R5, but considering the silence I'm betting that's not happening. I can wish!



Yes, I'm afraid a wish is all it is right now. As it is I think I may be FORCED (lol) to buy an R5 as opposed to waiting for the R5s.


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## Mr Majestyk (Feb 3, 2021)

How about an indication they will be releasing some decently fast superteles, and not necessarily f/4, just not f/11 garbage.

R5 fw updates needs to allow for slower ES speeds, adding a 10fps mode would be perfect.


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## unfocused (Feb 3, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> "Whatever happens, I think something should be announced to get Canon’s name back in the news cycle for imaging."



Why? With demand for the R6 and R5 and RF lenses all outstripping supply and with a virtual show that no one is going to pay much attention to anyway, why would Canon feel any pressure at all to get their "name back in the news cycle"?

It's not like they run a website that has to constantly tease new products in order to retain readers.


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## Traveler (Feb 3, 2021)

Eos R mark II please. The R6 lacks the top down LCD and 24-30mpix would be perfect. I don’t mind if it introduces new experimental features like the Touch Bar. Just a bit faster and with the R6 level IBIS.


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## alofonz (Feb 3, 2021)

Come on Canon... clog 3 for the eos R6!...and why not external 4k raw video recording !?. i know you can....(and i can dream..)


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## amorse (Feb 3, 2021)

JohnC said:


> Yes, I'm afraid a wish is all it is right now. As it is I think I may be FORCED (lol) to buy an R5 as opposed to waiting for the R5s.


Well, there are certainly worse things to be forced into!


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## drhuffman87 (Feb 3, 2021)

I hope they announce that I can take more time off work to shoot.


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## Ozarker (Feb 3, 2021)

They'll announce the RF 70-135mm f/2L. *Then Canonfanboy wakes from his erotic dream and realizes he should not have smoked so much.*


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## Pape (Feb 3, 2021)

They need still that tiny R to sell japaneses and far east peoples for 500E


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## landon (Feb 3, 2021)

Wildest idea. Do you think Canon could come out with a camera with similar specc as the A1 but in a slightly bigger body than the R5, and call it R2orR3orR4, and priced it at $5200? (That's the price the toy-build A1 should have been) The R1 will be super pro-body and +$7000 for sure.


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## dichterDichter (Feb 3, 2021)

maybe they will announce available rf ef adapters...


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## Mike9129 (Feb 3, 2021)

Would love aspect ratio guides for the video modes in the R5 seeing as they are updating video features anyway


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## -pekr- (Feb 3, 2021)

R5 firmware update info, please. Development announcement of R1, high mp body, APS-C R7D and M5 II / M6 III with IBIS. Well, whatever they announce, I am just relaxed, as our R5 is on its way


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## slclick (Feb 3, 2021)

landon said:


> Wildest idea. Do you think Canon could come out with a camera with similar specc as the A1 but in a slightly bigger body than the R5, and call it R2orR3orR4, and priced it at $5200? (That's the price the toy-build A1 should have been) The R1 will be super pro-body and +$7000 for sure.


I would love a 3 series semi pro body comeback. The EOS 3 is one of the finest cameras I have ever used.


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## fox40phil (Feb 3, 2021)

ADD M&S-RAW!!! 

I m hoping for RPII and RII, R1 and R7 this year!


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## slclick (Feb 3, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> ADD M&S-RAW!!!
> 
> I m hoping for RPII and RII, R1 and R7 this year!


Wasn't the R and RP mentioned as placeholder bodies in the Canon interview a couple months ago alluding to them being short term in the lineup as opposed to the numbered bodies? I don't think we will see versions 2 of those. I think next up are 7 (crop), 1 (flagship) and in my dreams.... a 3 (stills oriented).


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## JohnC (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> I would love a 3 series semi pro body comeback. The EOS 3 is one of the finest cameras I have ever used.


I’m with you there. I love mine although it doesn’t get much use anymore.


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## amorse (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> Wasn't the R and RP mentioned as placeholder bodies in the Canon interview a couple months ago alluding to them being short term in the lineup as opposed to the numbered bodies? I don't think we will see versions 2 of those. I think next up are 7 (crop), 1 (flagship) and in my dreams.... a 3 (stills oriented).


7 and 1 make a lot of sense to come soon, but I wouldn't be shocked if they released an even more entry level price point camera as well. If the RP and R were considered stopgaps, then something cheaper is a pretty reasonable assumption with the R6 being the next cheapest in the lineup.


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## EOS 4 Life (Feb 3, 2021)

landon said:


> The R5 & R6 is doing very well, even more so after the A1 announcement. So I think any new cameras will be a while yet.


R1 is a different price point so it should not impact R5 and R6 sales very much.


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## EOS 4 Life (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> The potential marginal gains these ship jumpers desire, it kills me. I cannot imagine going through all the hassles of selling my bodies and glass for a 1/2 stop of DR or a mini xlr port etc etc.
> 
> Enjoy the skintones and crap menus.


I do not really get it.
If Canon shooters find a Sony camera they love then they should just buy it with an EF adapter.
No need to sell all of their gear.


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## Wilfried Flitser (Feb 3, 2021)

Hoping for an announcement of the RF 35-135mm f2.8L


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## Maps (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> Wasn't the R and RP mentioned as placeholder bodies in the Canon interview a couple months ago alluding to them being short term in the lineup as opposed to the numbered bodies? I don't think we will see versions 2 of those. I think next up are 7 (crop), 1 (flagship) and in my dreams.... a 3 (stills oriented).



I’m really curious about the RP. We’ll find out whether its margins were robust enough to justify a sequel. That answer is probably going to say a lot about the next 10 years.


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## reef58 (Feb 3, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> How about an indication they will be releasing some decently fast superteles, and not necessarily f/4, just not f/11 garbage.
> 
> R5 fw updates needs to allow for slower ES speeds, adding a 10fps mode would be perfect.



I don't know I think the 600 and 800 f11 lenses are pretty cool. People say they want different and innovation, and moving forward but it seems most just want another iteration of a 24-70 or 70-200. I am not picking on you specifically, but have seen many people criticizing the lenses.


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## w16gym (Feb 3, 2021)

An upgrade to the 5D4 would be nice, nothing extreme don’t need 8K just want improved MP and DR in similar format.


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## MrToes (Feb 3, 2021)

When and if the new high MP body comes out is when we make the jump to the mirrorless system . . . . . . . . . . .


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 3, 2021)

R7! R7! like some others here... I'd immediately upgrade my 7D2 - if the price isn't out of any proportion, i.e. reasonably below 2k€ here in Europe.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 3, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Canon could acknowledge the existence of M. They have been awfully quiet about it, leading to negative rumors.


I guess they go the same way now like they did with the EF system: the will probably come up with a crop RF mount camera. Economically it would make much more sense than keeping two incompatible systems alive, in such a tight market now.


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## Fbimages (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> The potential marginal gains these ship jumpers desire, it kills me. I cannot imagine going through all the hassles of selling my bodies and glass for a 1/2 stop of DR or a mini xlr port etc etc.
> 
> Enjoy the skintones and crap menus.


I can't speak for Sony, but I was a happy ish 5DS R shooter for quite a few years before I switched to Fuji, and in all honesty it's not 1/2 stop of dynamic range extra. The files a miles ahead. Of course you can use ND grad filters, bracketting (which I have done for years with the 5DS R), but it's nice to have so much lattitude straight in camera. 
The other advantage of the Fuji system is the aspect ratio which I find more pleasing as the 3:2 is quite elongated (but that is only my view).
For wildlife and fast action however, Canon all the way. The Autofocus is reaching incredible levels.


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## Maps (Feb 3, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> I guess they go the same way now like they did with the EF system: the will probably come up with a crop RF mount camera. Economically it would make much more sense than keeping two incompatible systems alive, in such a tight market now.



I have no allusions about anything new coming to the M line. All I would ask for at this point is a statement about what their plans are going forward. How long will they continue manufacturing the current products? Do they see an “M-mount type” camera coming to the RF line down the road? Not just APS-C; but “value-oriented” APS-C. Or value-oriented FF for that matter. Of all the crazy things people demand of Canon, I feel like a paragraph, even a tweet, providing some guidance is not that unreasonable.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 3, 2021)

Fbimages said:


> I can't speak for Sony, but I was a happy ish 5DS R shooter for quite a few years before I switched to Fuji, and in all honesty it's not 1/2 stop of dynamic range extra. The files a miles ahead. Of course you can use ND grad filters, bracketting (which I have done for years with the 5DS R), but it's nice to have so much lattitude straight in camera.
> The other advantage of the Fuji system is the aspect ratio which I find more pleasing as the 3:2 is quite elongated (but that is only my view).
> For wildlife and fast action however, Canon all the way. The Autofocus is reaching incredible levels.


Which FujiFilm bodies specifically are you referring to?


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 3, 2021)

Maps said:


> Of all the crazy things people demand of Canon, I feel like a paragraph, even a tweet, providing some guidance is not that unreasonable.


I wouldn't wonder if they already have decided for APS-C cameras for the RF mount - why not also budget ones, like the Rebel series? But they may keep still for a while, so they can sell all M stuff off the shelves until it is over. But that's my guess and may not be correct.


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## Maps (Feb 3, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> I wouldn't wonder if they already have decided for APS-C cameras for the RF mount - why not also budget ones, like the Rebel series? But they may keep still for a while, so they can sell all M stuff off the shelves until it is over. But that's my guess and may not be correct.



I don’t blame anyone for thinking that “Rebel-type” cameras will be around forever. It’s certainly sound logic based on the past. But the future? How much of that market no longer exists due to phones? And what are the margins on a “budget” APS-C camera? How much profit does selling, say, a billion Rebels actually net at the end of the day, compared to selling ten R5s? Also my opinion. Also may be wildly incorrect. And I should also point out… I hope I’m wrong.


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## Ziz (Feb 3, 2021)

An RF 35mm pancake USM - one can dream


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## o2cui2i (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> I'm not asking for much, just the R6 in the Refurb Store. I have determined it will be the replacement for my 5D3. Not one to fall into the >MP trap.



The R5 is amazing. I got a 6DII last 3 years ago because I knew I was getting the flagship Canon once it had proper eye Tracking, the R had the dumb slide bar, the RP was a step back from the 6D, the R6 was so many less Mpix than my 6D... so the R5 was my choice. saved for 3 years to make it happen and it's well worth it.


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## o2cui2i (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> The potential marginal gains these ship jumpers desire, it kills me. I cannot imagine going through all the hassles of selling my bodies and glass for a 1/2 stop of DR or a mini xlr port etc etc.
> 
> Enjoy the skintones and crap menus.




internet hype posters


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## Ozarker (Feb 3, 2021)

reef58 said:


> I don't know I think the 600 and 800 f11 lenses are pretty cool.


They certainly are not garbage for people who want those focal lengths on a budget. I am always amazed at folks who seem to think everyone else can afford to drop $10k+ on a prime lens just because they can. I’d certainly get one if I had that need. The budget model, that is. I’d prefer a Bentley, but my Hyundai will have to do. I get from A to B just like they do. Like you, I think those lenses are pretty cool . I’m glad there are price points for just about anyone.


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## canonmike (Feb 3, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> How about an indication they will be releasing some decently fast superteles, and not necessarily f/4, just not f/11 garbage.
> 
> R5 fw updates needs to allow for slower ES speeds, adding a 10fps mode would be perfect.


Understand your request and/or need for faster superteles but don't think I'd refer to the current F11 crop of tele's as garbage. Every review I've seen on the 600 and 800 F11's look pretty good, especially given the price and the fact they are very affordable.


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## canonmike (Feb 3, 2021)

slclick said:


> I would love a 3 series semi pro body comeback. The EOS 3 is one of the finest cameras I have ever used.


Concur. I loved both of my EOS 3 film bodies and, at such a reasonable price. Over the yrs, I have been greatly surprised that no Digital Canon Camera, has included the great optional eye controlled focus feature like that contained in the EOS 3 and Elan 7e bodies.


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## reef58 (Feb 3, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> They certainly are not garbage for people who want those focal lengths on a budget. I am always amazed at folks who seem to think everyone else can afford to drop $10k+ on a prime lens just because they can. I’d certainly get one if I had that need. The budget model, that is. I’d prefer a Bentley, but my Hyundai will have to do. I get from A to B just like they do. Like you, I think those lenses are pretty cool . I’m glad there are price points for just about anyone.



Even budget aside, I hike a lot with my 500mm lens. It produces spectacular images, but it is heavy. I think I am going to get the 600. I envision RF 24-105, 100-500 and 600 or 800 f11. That is an exceptional 3 lens kit. I don't care who you are..


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## usern4cr (Feb 4, 2021)

reef58 said:


> Even budget aside, I hike a lot with my 500mm lens. It produces spectacular images, but it is heavy. I think I am going to get the 600. I envision RF 24-105, 100-500 and 600 or 800 f11. That is an exceptional 3 lens kit. I don't care who you are..


If you're thinking of the 600 f11 or the 800 f11 to complement the 100-500, I'd suggest the 800 to have more separation from the 100-500.


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## EOS 4 Life (Feb 4, 2021)

w16gym said:


> An upgrade to the 5D4 would be nice, nothing extreme don’t need 8K just want improved MP and DR in similar format.


I want a DSLR R5 with IBIS.


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## EOS 4 Life (Feb 4, 2021)

Maps said:


> I don’t blame anyone for thinking that “Rebel-type” cameras will be around forever. It’s certainly sound logic based on the past. But the future? How much of that market no longer exists due to phones? And what are the margins on a “budget” APS-C camera? How much profit does selling, say, a billion Rebels actually net at the end of the day, compared to selling ten R5s? Also my opinion. Also may be wildly incorrect. And I should also point out… I hope I’m wrong.


I would have never bought an R5 if I never bought a Rebel.
There have to be entry-level cameras of some sort.
Those tend to be low margin and high volume.


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## Maps (Feb 4, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I would have never bought an R5 if I never bought a Rebel.
> There have to be entry-level cameras of some sort.
> Those tend to be low margin and high volume.



Agree; I followed a similar path and I’d wager almost everyone here has an analogous story with a few details swapped based on their birth year. But… that all happened in the past, and this was kind of my point. I’m guessing people like you and I will still exist in the future, but their story will be: “My first camera was an iPhone 14; I loved it, I used it to learn photography but I eventually outgrew it and bought an R6 mkIII.”

I think if camera companies want to survive, they have to build their brand around this narrative. A lot of recent moves that have confused and upset people start to make more sense when you consider this “new reality”. I think your logic is really good, I just think your timing is wrong.


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## Fbimages (Feb 4, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Which FujiFilm bodies specifically are you referring to?





privatebydesign said:


> Which FujiFilm bodies specifically are you referring to?


I own the GFX 100


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## privatebydesign (Feb 4, 2021)

Fbimages said:


> I own the GFX 100


In that case you are quite correct, the DR improvements over Canon FF sensors is considerably more than 1/2 stop. But then it should be, however when you throw in the additional resolution and bit depth there really is no comparison between a $4,000 FF sensor and a $10,000 MF one. 

Of course now there is the option of the GFX 100S that price difference has been considerably eroded and lens prices for Canon are not cheap, indeed were I primarily a landscape shooter I think I’d have to go for a GFX100S over an R5 any day, BIF, generalist, etc etc, not so much, but for landscapes I think FujiFilm have the market cornered for discerning shooters.


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## EOS 4 Life (Feb 4, 2021)

Maps said:


> Agree; I followed a similar path and I’d wager almost everyone here has an analogous story with a few details swapped based on their birth year. But… that all happened in the past, and this was kind of my point. I’m guessing people like you and I will still exist in the future, but their story will be: “My first camera was an iPhone 14; I loved it, I used it to learn photography but I eventually outgrew it and bought an R6 mkIII.”
> 
> I think if camera companies want to survive, they have to build their brand around this narrative. A lot of recent moves that have confused and upset people start to make more sense when you consider this “new reality”. I think your logic is really good, I just think your timing is wrong.


I can see someone jumping from a $1K phone to a $1K camera but not to a $4K camera.
M6 II, 90D, and RP are all around that price point.
A big problem is that a $1K smartphone has the same specs as a $4K camera.
Most people who want cameras have $500 smartphones and end up with M200, M50, or a Rebel.
The biggest problem is that most people are perfectly happy with smartphones just like most people were perfectly happy with point and shoots.


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## koenkooi (Feb 5, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I can see someone jumping from a $1K phone to a $1K camera but not to a $4K camera.
> M6 II, 90D, and RP are all around that price point.
> A big problem is that a $1K smartphone has the same specs as a $4K camera.
> Most people who want cameras have $500 smartphones and end up with M200, M50, or a Rebel.
> The biggest problem is that most people are perfectly happy with smartphones just like most people were perfectly happy with point and shoots.



And for the recent flagship phones with some form of "Night shot": they beat the R5 with a huge margin in those situations. I really hope this kind of computational photography comes to Canon cameras.


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## EOS 4 Life (Feb 5, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> And for the recent flagship phones with some form of "Night shot": they beat the R5 with a huge margin in those situations. I really hope this kind of computational photography comes to Canon cameras.


I do not find that to be true at all.
Try shooting in RAW and editing the photo in post.
The IBIS in the R5 even allows for longer handheld exposures.
"Night Shot" is meant for a tripod anyway.
Most modern ILC will embarrass an iPhone at high ISO at long exposure.
Maybe an entry-level full-frame camera that does all of that automatically is a good idea to bring new people in but pros and enthusiasts mostly want control over that type of thing.
M200 is an entry-level APS-C camera with features like that but it also has entry-level specs.
Even a fully spec'd out camera with computational photography would not be as convenient as a smartphone camera as we would still have to transfer the photos.


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## Joules (Feb 5, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I do not find that to be true at all.
> Try shooting in RAW and editing the photo in post.
> The IBIS in the R5 even allows for longer handheld exposures.
> "Night Shot" is meant for a tripod anyway.


The implementation on my Google Pixel 3a definitvely is not meant for a tripod. In a simple test I did once, it definitively produced a better straight out of camera result of a static scene than my 80D + Sigma 35 mm 1.4 were able to deliver hand held in that situation. With IS and IBIS thrown into the mix, it becomes a more fair comparison of course and as I said, that was not a proper test. Still, the results are impressive. No surprise really, as I use the same technique of stacking numerous shots to reduce noise in Astro all the time.

I'd also like to see the camera companies to offer some of these automized processing techniques, rather than relying on the user performing them manually in post. That's not the same as as strpping the control away from the user. Ideally a format to save this in would keep the underlying raw data in tact and allow tweaking of the processing steps. Of course it would require using proprietary software. But Canon has already taken some baby steps into that direction.


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## Maps (Feb 5, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I can see someone jumping from a $1K phone to a $1K camera but not to a $4K camera.
> M6 II, 90D, and RP are all around that price point.
> A big problem is that a $1K smartphone has the same specs as a $4K camera.
> Most people who want cameras have $500 smartphones and end up with M200, M50, or a Rebel.
> The biggest problem is that most people are perfectly happy with smartphones just like most people were perfectly happy with point and shoots.



I was trying to think of some real world examples to illustrate my point and realized not only do I not know a single person who has gone from phone to FF, I don’t know anyone who has gone from phone to ILC, period. Can anyone share their experiences? I’m wondering about the last two years or so. A decade ago doesn’t count, that might has well have been a different planet.

Unfortunately, I know 3 people who’ve gone the other direction. I wouldn’t say they actively ditched their DSLRs for phones, it was more… as their DSLRs aged they decided not to upgrade them, instead opting to just use their phones. One of those three will still take the DSLR birding on occasion, but otherwise it’s been shelved.


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## koenkooi (Feb 5, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I do not find that to be true at all.
> Try shooting in RAW and editing the photo in post.
> The IBIS in the R5 even allows for longer handheld exposures.
> "Night Shot" is meant for a tripod anyway.
> ...



I can get an handheld 3 second exposure sharp with my phone, not so with the R5. And the night shot mode on phones wasn't made for tripods, quite the opposite.


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## amorse (Feb 5, 2021)

A lot of conversation on comparing the computational photography opportunities utilized in phones versus capability native in a full frame camera, specifically the night-shot systems. Personally, I couldn't see myself jumping on those tools if they were built into an ILC since I often end up doing them in post where I have more control, but I do see the value in offering those in an ILC. In my experience, I've known a number of people who buy their first ILC, don't immediately get the results they envisioned, then roll back to their phone to access those automated tools. I suspect making those tools available in a full frame camera could keep new entrants to the ILC world interested for longer, and maybe buying more lenses. That's complete speculation though.

Since a lot of those techniques require the camera taking many images in succession then using software to combine and reduce noise using an electronic shutter, I'd wonder if many ILCs would need faster readout speeds to make it workable in a similar way.


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## Joules (Feb 5, 2021)

amorse said:


> Since a lot of those techniques require the camera taking many images in succession then using software to combine and reduce noise using an electronic shutter, I'd wonder if many ILCs would need faster readout speeds to make it workable in a similar way.


Faster than 20 FPS? I don't think so. That's plenty do do handheld Stacking for noise reduction or super resolution. There's also a lot of cool stuff one could do with that in combination with the depth information coming from Canon's dual pixel design.

Official support for these types of applications in camera would improve the results even if you'd rather perform the processing yourself. The depth information is one example, exposing offsets between the frames through the camera's IMU data would be another.


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## amorse (Feb 5, 2021)

Joules said:


> Faster than 20 FPS? I don't think so. That's plenty do do handheld Stacking for noise reduction or super resolution. There's also a lot of cool stuff one could do with that in combination with the depth information coming from Canon's dual pixel design.


Well yes, the R5/R6 clearly have a fast enough readout speed to likely support it in electronic shutter, but I'm thinking of the RP as an example with a much slower max burst rate. What's its max burst rate - 4 FPS? My thinking has been that these automated tools may be more attractive to entry level users who are familiar with using the tools on a smart phone - maybe they either don't know how to perform those multi-image combinations in post, or don't care to go through the hassle, and just want the same ease they had when using a phone for photography. The utility of those tools may be greater in entry level bodies which may not have the burst rate, or computing power to support the function _yet_. The burst rates being put up by the R5 and R6 imply that it could become more accessible soon, but I couldn't see that getting into an RP as a firmware update.


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## Joules (Feb 5, 2021)

amorse said:


> Well yes, the R5/R6 clearly have a fast enough readout speed to likely support it in electronic shutter, but I'm thinking of the RP as an example with a much slower max burst rate. What's its max burst rate - 4 FPS?


Well, I would hope with the level of technology they have in their latest sensor generation, such slow frames in lower end models will be a thing of the past. Quick reminder that the M6 II is a little cheaper than the RP and with 14 FPS mechanical at 32.5 MP delivers almost exactly half the throughput of the R5 and 14% more throughput than the R6. It also has a 30 FPS boot mode cropped to 18 MP that these two FF bodies lack. So Canon has set the precedent for putting serious speed into mid tier bodies. The RP is handycapped by its now two generations older sensor.


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## amorse (Feb 5, 2021)

Joules said:


> Well, I would hope with the level of technology they have in their latest sensor generation, such slow frames in lower end models will be a thing of the past. Quick reminder that the M6 II is a little cheaper than the RP and with 14 FPS mechanical at 32.5 MP delivers almost exactly half the throughput of the R5 and 14% more throughput than the R6. It also has a 30 FPS boot mode cropped to 18 MP that these two FF bodies lack. So Canon has set the precedent for putting serious speed into mid tier bodies. The RP is handycapped by its now two generations older sensor.


I agree with you - several cameras are fast enough now, and several are not - especially older ones. With speed moving into lower and lower end bodies, implementation of computational photography is becoming more possible, but I think that speed limitation may be (only) one of the reasons why we haven't seen ILCs incorporate some of the tech yet. Computing power may be an issue too - obviously several higher end ILCs from other manufacturers use multi-shot tools to increase resolution or colour depth, but some manufacturers still require you to do the combining outside the camera. Even the lowly RP has a multi-shot focus bracketing function which needs to be completed on a computer. I think it's safe to say that manufacturers are aware of the benefits of multi-shot computational photography, regardless of whether that's for low light improvements, resolution increases, depth of field improvements, or colour depth. I do think, however, that there are still some technical developments that must be brought to lower-end camera lines before the seamlessness expected by a cell phone photographer can be delivered on an entry-level body, but we're definitely getting closer especially with improvements in frame rates.


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## festr (Feb 7, 2021)

where is RF 35 1.2?


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## TravelerNick (Feb 10, 2021)

Maps said:


> I was trying to think of some real world examples to illustrate my point and realized not only do I not know a single person who has gone from phone to FF, I don’t know anyone who has gone from phone to ILC, period. Can anyone share their experiences? I’m wondering about the last two years or so. A decade ago doesn’t count, that might has well have been a different planet.



For stills? Not sure. For video quite a few. 

For stills I'd assume most of those sort of people are students in various types of photography/art programs. I think we're past the point of the average family being a standalone camera .


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## TravelerNick (Feb 10, 2021)

Joules said:


> Faster than 20 FPS? I don't think so. That's plenty do do handheld Stacking for noise reduction or super resolution. There's also a lot of cool stuff one could do with that in combination with the depth information coming from Canon's dual pixel design.



It's not just the time to take those frames. It's the time to process them. 

But look at the Canon DGO sensor in the C70. My guess is they're going to expand on that. The C70 isn't full frame which makes me guess the costs are still too high for a similar sensor in a full frame hybrid camera.


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## Pape (Feb 10, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> It's not just the time to take those frames. It's the time to process them.
> 
> But look at the Canon DGO sensor in the C70. My guess is they're going to expand on that. The C70 isn't full frame which makes me guess the costs are still too high for a similar sensor in a full frame hybrid camera.


Maybe they just test new tech with c70 .They need info how flawlesly it work before they launch big production line with new kind sensor.
Price for mass produced sensor is still unknown.


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## EOS 4 Life (Feb 10, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> It's not just the time to take those frames. It's the time to process them.
> 
> But look at the Canon DGO sensor in the C70. My guess is they're going to expand on that. The C70 isn't full frame which makes me guess the costs are still too high for a similar sensor in a full frame hybrid camera.


According to Canon C500 does not have DGO due to power constraints.
ARRI ALEXA LF has a full-frame DGO but it eats through batteries like there is no tomorrow.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 12, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> R1 is a different price point so it should not impact R5 and R6 sales very much.



True, but the R5 being cheaper can certainly affect the potential sales of the R1.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 12, 2021)

o2cui2i said:


> internet hype posters



It's easy to jump ship and switch when they don't actually own anything from either system...


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## SteveC (Feb 12, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> It's easy to jump ship and switch when they don't actually own anything from either system...


And will _continue_ to not own anything from the new system afterwards.

I own everything Nikon ever made...however every single item of my Nikon gear is average in every way except for not existing. That minor attribute is not there. But I could switch to a bunch of S*ny gear with the same minor handicap at any time.

[Inspired by someone's example demonstrating why "existence" is not an attribute of an object.]


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