# Here are some images and pricing for the Canon EOS 90D



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 26, 2019)

> Here are some images and pricing for the Canon EOS 90D.
> 
> Canon EOS 90D  Body $1199
> Canon EOS 90D w/18-55mm STM Kit $1349
> ...



Continue reading...


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## navastronia (Aug 27, 2019)

Same as the intro price of the 80D. Seems like a win.


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## Scenes (Aug 27, 2019)

Hovering over the buy button ready tomorrow.


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## Cryhavoc (Aug 27, 2019)

Not sure I'd pick up a 90D when a new 6D mkII is $100 bucks more at most.


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## Tugela (Aug 27, 2019)

Ok, so the 26th is almost over. Where is the announcement?


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## neo302 (Aug 27, 2019)

Pretty


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## dtaylor (Aug 27, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> Not sure I'd pick up a 90D when a new 6D mkII is $100 bucks more at most.




Not sure if I'd pick up either when a gray market 5Ds is $1,230 on eBay.


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## Cryhavoc (Aug 27, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> Not sure if I'd pick up either when a gray market 5Ds is $1,230 on eBay.



I think I would agree, but I am leery of grey market goods unless purchased from Costco with their automatic extended warranty.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Aug 27, 2019)

Worth a look when the holiday price drops hit if the OVF isn't too small and squinty for extended viewing. Should be a high performing sensor. I've never had a tilty-flippy. Must be nice. Hope they sell. Be a nice boost for the EF mount.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 27, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> Not sure if I'd pick up either when a gray market 5Ds is $1,230 on eBay.


I like the way you thinking. I really keen to see what 1Dx II prices may look like in about 6 months from now


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 27, 2019)

Tugela said:


> Ok, so the 26th is almost over. Where is the announcement?



The announcement is on the 28th.


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## unfocused (Aug 27, 2019)

Looks like my wife will be getting a new camera for Christmas.


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## Scenes (Aug 27, 2019)

Tugela said:


> Ok, so the 26th is almost over. Where is the announcement?


The rumoured announce date was 28th.


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## Scenes (Aug 27, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> Not sure I'd pick up a 90D when a new 6D mkII is $100 bucks more at most.



Well the 6D mk.2 it a great camera sure. But doesn’t shoot 4K. And isn’t compatible with the EF-S lenses I already have. They’re different tools for different people.


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## Jethro (Aug 27, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Worth a look when the holiday price drops hit if the OVF isn't too small and squinty for extended viewing. Should be a high performing sensor. *I've never had a tilty-flippy*. Must be nice. Hope they sell. Be a nice boost for the EF mount.


You'll never look back!


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## Jethro (Aug 27, 2019)

I'm not in the market, but it looks impressive (and the 18-135mm kit would be very attractive indeed). Likely to sell bucket loads.


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## Kharan (Aug 27, 2019)

Jethro said:


> I'm not in the market, but it looks impressive (and the 18-135mm kit would be very attractive indeed). Likely to sell bucket loads.


To be quite frank,* nothing* in this awful market will sell ‘bucket loads’. Those times already came and went.


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## TrubadorPhotography (Aug 27, 2019)

$1199 body only? HECK YEAH!!! 

I just need to know the release date. Soooooo happy to finally be able to get this baby. 

I have a photo gig on the first Saturday of November. Would love to have this and some new lenses before then. But, if it’s not available until Christmas season, that’s ok. I’m giddy right now.


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## Chaitanya (Aug 27, 2019)

Will be placing preorder at local store. Pricing is inline with launch price of 80D so not bad at all.


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## unfocused (Aug 27, 2019)

TrubadorPhotography said:


> $1199 body only? HECK YEAH!!!
> 
> I just need to know the release date. Soooooo happy to finally be able to get this baby.
> 
> I have a photo gig on the first Saturday of November. Would love to have this and some new lenses before then. But, if it’s not available until Christmas season, that’s ok. I’m giddy right now.


I don't think you will have any problem. These models tend to be available quite soon after announcement.


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## AlanF (Aug 27, 2019)

I like the specs. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear to have the 3 custom settings on the mode dial, which I find so useful.


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## TrubadorPhotography (Aug 27, 2019)

AlanF said:


> I like the specs. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear to have the 3 custom settings on the mode dial, which I find so useful.


Look at the spec sheet in the attached PDF. All of those modes are there (and more). Accessible via the touch screen rather than the dial.


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## Mr Majestyk (Aug 27, 2019)

if its got more reliable AF than the 7DII then a bargain, but if it’s still 80D class AF, a poor subsitute for the 7DII.


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## dtaylor (Aug 27, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> I think I would agree, but I am leery of grey market goods unless purchased from Costco with their automatic extended warranty.



I bought mine from Deals All Year when it was still $2k gray market. It was clearly brand new and the only "issue" is that I had to change the menu to English. For a couple hundred in savings I would go US Authorized but for $1,600 (now even more)? I took the risk. eBay and PayPal protect you in terms of the initial arrival (item as described), so at that point you're paying a lot for a 1 year warranty. And that's assuming Canon wouldn't just honor it any way.


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## dtaylor (Aug 27, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> I like the way you thinking. I really keen to see what 1Dx II prices may look like in about 6 months from now



You know, if mirrorless continues to drive down the prices of current top tier EF bodies and lenses...I just might stick with a mirror


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## Tangent (Aug 27, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> I think I would agree, but I am leery of grey market goods unless purchased from Costco with their automatic extended warranty.



Note: Costco is an authorized Canon dealer.


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## navastronia (Aug 27, 2019)

Tangent said:


> Note: Costco is an authorized Canon dealer.



That's good info. Thanks for that.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 27, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> if its got more reliable AF than the 7DII then a bargain, but if it’s still 80D class AF, a poor subsitute for the 7DII.



It's missing the 'Single AF Point with 4 expansion points' and 'Single AF Point with 8 expansion points' AF point selection modes that the 80D is also missing. 9-point "Zone AF" is not the same. The former give priority to the single selected point and use the expansion points only when the selected point can not achieve AF. The latter gives equal weight to all nine AF points and will AF on the area of highest contrast within the entire AF area of the nine AF points.

It would need a shutter rating higher than the 100,000 rating of the 80D, too.


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## Sharlin (Aug 27, 2019)

AlanF said:


> I like the specs. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear to have the 3 custom settings on the mode dial, which I find so useful.



It has two, like Canon's other recent enthusiast bodies such as the 80D, 6D2, and M5/M6. For whatever reason, the RP is something of an exception with three custom modes.

BTW, anyone else really dig the diamond knurling on the dials of Canon's latest cameras? (And M and RF lenses too!) I think I could buy the 90D just because of that…

And speaking of really important features, the mode dial symbols now appear embossed rather than painted!


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## Stig Nygaard (Aug 27, 2019)

TrubadorPhotography said:


> Look at the spec sheet in the attached PDF. All of those modes are there (and more). Accessible via the touch screen rather than the dial.



Where do you see that? Yes it has scenery modes, but I don't see any hints that more than the two custom modes found directly on dial (which is what AlanF refers to) should be available.

However I have always wondered why Canon wouldn't let us define a little "bank" of (custom named) custom modes we could quickly assign to a custom mode on dial when needed. So we where not limited by the number of custom modes on dial.


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## Viggo (Aug 27, 2019)

Jethro said:


> You'll never look back!


.. but you can


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## AlanF (Aug 27, 2019)

TrubadorPhotography said:


> Look at the spec sheet in the attached PDF. All of those modes are there (and more). Accessible via the touch screen rather than the dial.


I like to have C1, C2 and C3 on the _mode_ _dial_, as I wrote, so I can switch among them using muscle memory without taking the OVF away from my eye. If I have to take my eye off the subject and faff around with a touch screen then I can miss a shot.


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## Bobbo (Aug 27, 2019)

Hmmm..
That'll be 2000 quid in the UK then no doubt.
I'll wait for the grey market at £999


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## dslrdummy (Aug 27, 2019)

Probably $1,750+ in Aus. Which is pricey but not unexpected given what's happened to our dollar recently.


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## zonoskar (Aug 27, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The announcement is on the 28th.


I also seem to remember 26th as the announcement day. On 28th, also Sony is announcing new camera's. Surely Canon would try to avoid announcing stuff on the same day as a competitor?

/edit: apparently, Sony will announce their camera's on 29th of august.


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## Jasonmc89 (Aug 27, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> Not sure if I'd pick up either when a gray market 5Ds is $1,230 on eBay.


Depends on what type of camera you want. There are certain shots that will be easier to capture on the 90D than those slower, full frame bodies..


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## Memirsbrunnr (Aug 27, 2019)

Just wondering where is Winston deluge of 3 minute long product announcement movie clips


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## Kernow (Aug 27, 2019)

I get to Retire the old 450D soon, roll on i say , happy days


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## Memirsbrunnr (Aug 27, 2019)

still would have preferred a $1400 camera with the 7D mark 2 focussing system.. 2nd memory slot is not nescessary for me


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## syder (Aug 27, 2019)

So I'm confused... Its AUS/NZ promo material and has no 25/50/100p options for those of us who live outside of NTSC land and use 50Hz. What have I missed?


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## deltoo (Aug 27, 2019)

Interesting pricing but again I ask myself why so many people buy such products on first day, without any reviews, tests etc.


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## AlanF (Aug 27, 2019)

deltoo said:


> Interesting pricing but again I ask myself why so many people buy such products on first day, without any reviews, tests etc.


Canon might be boring to some but reliability is their strength when it comes to anything in this range. The 90D will do the job, and do it well.


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## Scenes (Aug 27, 2019)

deltoo said:


> Interesting pricing but again I ask myself why so many people buy such products on first day, without any reviews, tests etc.


For me I’ll pre-order on the assumption it’s a 4K 80D then I’ll get it as soon as possible. If for some reason it’s discovered in reviews that it’s missing important colours or only films in black and white then I’ll cancel. Simples


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## Scenes (Aug 27, 2019)

Bobbo said:


> Hmmm..
> That'll be 2000 quid in the UK then no doubt.
> I'll wait for the grey market at £999


It’s usually a little less. I’m hoping £999 as the 80D body was but in the current climate probably more £1099


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## AlanF (Aug 27, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> Not sure if I'd pick up either when a gray market 5Ds is $1,230 on eBay.


I am pretty close to you in my regard to the 5DS/R! The 90D fits a niche - it will have the resolution of a 5DS plus 1.3xTC, with smaller file size and bigger buffer, but it will lack the FF capabilities and superb construction of the 5DS. The 5DS at these prices is a real bargain.


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## AntlerstoPeaks (Aug 27, 2019)

Going to be cutting it close on release for me. I leave for my once in a lifetime photo trip on the 20th of September. If I can get it before then I’ll buy it. If not I’ll probably wait a year and then get it. 

Looks like the perfect backup camera to my 6dii though. 

Did anyone see buffers listed anywhere? That’s the only thing I didn’t see.


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## Stereodude (Aug 27, 2019)

deltoo said:


> Interesting pricing but again I ask myself why so many people buy such products on first day, without any reviews, tests etc.


Stockholm syndrome...


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## AprilForever (Aug 27, 2019)

Definitely not a 7D MK III replacement. Not in specifications, certainly not in price point. Hope remains for a 7d MK III....


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## PureClassA (Aug 27, 2019)

So for $1199 you get a choice between a top end Crop body or an entry level Full frame. 

I like it!!!


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## AprilForever (Aug 27, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> So for $1199 you get a choice between a top end Crop body or an entry level Full frame.
> 
> I like it!!!



Except this is not exactly top end... the 7d Mk II is top end, both in price and features. This is a nice camera for many perhaps, but short of a top end camera. The real top end crop, the APS-H line, they nuked when they released the 1dX. The APS-C top has been the 7d line, which may not persist... but I hope it does...


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## pknight (Aug 27, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> if its got more reliable AF than the 7DII then a bargain, but if it’s still 80D class AF, a poor subsitute for the 7DII.



This. And only this.


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## Architect1776 (Aug 27, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



What Canon needs is some brilliant marketing now. Sell the sizzle of this or whatever camera they choose. I remember the AE-1 commercials they were absolutely brilliant and Canon could not produce them fast enough. Yes, there were not cell phones then. That is why some brilliant thinking needs to occur to bring the cell phone crowd over. My step daughter was totally happy with her cell phone for years but could not figure out why her photos sucked compared to mine in many ways. I got her a camera and a lens. She is now on her 2nd camera and has a full range of lenses. She even convinced her sister to start using a "Real" camera and now both seldom use the cell phone except for that impromptu snap. 
I do not pretend to be a marketer, but see a need for that sizzle to be brought back and make it cool. Perhaps it will never fully recover but the decline can be slowed or stopped and perhaps grow.
Who knows as what is hot changes quickly.


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## AccipiterQ (Aug 27, 2019)

Fewer AF cross-points than the 7Dii. Single-processor. No IBIS (not that this was expected). Higher MP count so the noise is almost certainly going to be worse than the 7Dii. Unless you're using an 80D or something I'm not sure why you would view this as an upgrade. It's objectively worse than the 7Dii in several areas, particularly those that are important to wildlife photographers. Not sure what I'm supposed to do at this point, been waiting for a 7Dii upgrade for a while now. I really don't want to dump all my glass and jump to Nikon. Sony maybe?


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## AccipiterQ (Aug 27, 2019)

pknight said:


> This. And only this.





Mr Majestyk said:


> if its got more reliable AF than the 7DII then a bargain, but if it’s still 80D class AF, a poor subsitute for the 7DII.



I'm not hopeful, fewer cross-points than the 7Dii, single processor (not that this plays into it, just showing how it's an actual downgrade from the 7Dii in a couple areas). I'm going to wait for some real world tests to come out.


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## padam (Aug 27, 2019)

deltoo said:


> Interesting pricing but again I ask myself why so many people buy such products on first day, without any reviews, tests etc.


First of all, cancelling a pre-order is not a big deal.
If one makes a healthy income, than that 100-200$ saving compared to the initial price makes no difference at all, it can be recouped very quickly.
Or if replacing an old camera, its used value might decrease by this amount as well by the time this gets discounted, might as well do it earlier than later if upgrading costs almost the same.
Also, YouTube seems to be buzzing right now, overloaded with new entries, and owning a camera like this - which will attract interest - and releasing a decent video about it might increase channel growth a bit, so again easily worth getting it as soon as possible.
For the video geeks, no further crop 4k and 1080p 120fps (hopefully with AF) well under 1DXII price will sell this camera on its own (and all of its siblings with the same sensor, the crop sensor R variant could gain the sensor stabilisation as well).


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## Cryhavoc (Aug 27, 2019)

Tangent said:


> Note: Costco is an authorized Canon dealer.


Understood.
I mean in general, not all items purchased from Costco are authorized, so when they aren't, Costco always adds their extra warranty to the item.


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## Cryhavoc (Aug 27, 2019)

deltoo said:


> Interesting pricing but again I ask myself why so many people buy such products on first day, without any reviews, tests etc.


I prefer to review items myself. I am my own best judge of what works for me and what doesn't.

Another reason I have no issues with early adoption with camera gear is that I have a fantastic brick and mortar camera store nearby where I can go in, handle the goods, take test shots, play with the gear, attend sponsored show and tell events, etc.


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## dtaylor (Aug 27, 2019)

AccipiterQ said:


> Single-processor.



A quibble but one worth mentioning: single or dual processor doesn't necessarily tell you the relative processing power. The 7D2 was dual digic 6 while the 90D is digic 8. Even with the same processor, one model might be clocked higher than the other. The only time this would be relevant is when comparing two cameras released close together.

The AF module might indeed be an indicator or relative AF performance, but "single or dual" processors is not. In regard to that: it's a bummer that the 90D doesn't have the single+AF assist points mode that is so popular (I use it a lot myself). But then again, it has an updated iTR sensor and algorithms which may mean it's better at subject tracking.



> Higher MP count so the noise is almost certainly going to be worse than the 7Dii.



It won't be. High MP = high noise is a myth.


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## dtaylor (Aug 27, 2019)

AlanF said:


> I am pretty close to you in my regard to the 5DS/R! The 90D fits a niche - it will have the resolution of a 5DS plus 1.3xTC, with smaller file size and bigger buffer, but it will lack the FF capabilities and superb construction of the 5DS. The 5DS at these prices is a real bargain.



Of course. My comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek after the similar comment about the 6D2. Naturally the 90D has its advantages and roles, and for those unwilling to consider gray market there's also a huge price difference.

Heck, depending on the 4k video quality, I might get one.


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## knight427 (Aug 27, 2019)

AlanF said:


> I am pretty close to you in my regard to the 5DS/R! The 90D fits a niche - it will have the resolution of a 5DS plus 1.3xTC, with smaller file size and bigger buffer, but it will lack the FF capabilities and superb construction of the 5DS. The 5DS at these prices is a real bargain.



I only now discovered that the 5DS/R offers in-camera crop. But does it increase the frame rate?


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## Phil Gower (Aug 27, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> It's missing the 'Single AF Point with 4 expansion points' and 'Single AF Point with 8 expansion points' AF point selection modes that the 80D is also missing. 9-point "Zone AF" is not the same. The former give priority to the single selected point and use the expansion points only when the selected point can not achieve AF. The latter gives equal weight to all nine AF points and will AF on the area of highest contrast within the entire AF area of the nine Af points.
> 
> It would need a shutter rating higher than the 100,000 rating of the 80D, too.


A simplified AF system in comparison to the 7D II and 5DSR I use, but for bird photography I find single point and Zone AF more than adequate for birds in flight photography. The real winner I’m hoping is the 1.6 crop sensor with 32.5 MP which has got to be the best spec ever for bird photography. Here’s hoping!


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## Phil Gower (Aug 27, 2019)

knight427 said:


> I only now discovered that the 5DS/R offers in-camera crop. But does it increase the frame rate?


Nope and you are better off cropping in post where you can define the crop.


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## Phil Gower (Aug 27, 2019)

AlanF said:


> Canon might be boring to some but reliability is their strength when it comes to anything in this range. The 90D will do the job, and do it well.


Totally agree!


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## slclick (Aug 27, 2019)

It will be a great camera body, a nice update from the 80D.

Oh, you're still pining for a 7D2 replacement? Look elsewhere or just be patient...this isn't the product line you were looking for and why ever should a step down in lines fill a niche for a discontinued higher tier model? smh


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## KeithBreazeal (Aug 27, 2019)

I'm liking the curve ball approach here. I think the 7D label will be reborn, but not as a true DSLR. Look where the investment money is going- to lenses. I'm betting that a "top end" hybrid APSC will emerge with IBIS. This will be engineered as a true sports/wildlife camera. Remember, Canon does not abandon its customers.


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## slclick (Aug 27, 2019)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I'm liking the curve ball approach here. I think the 7D label will be reborn, but not as a true DSLR. Look where the investment money is going- to lenses. I'm betting that a "top end" hybrid APSC will emerge with IBIS. This will be engineered as a true sports/wildlife camera. Remember, Canon does not abandon its customers.


This is a sensible approach. The 7DMkll isn't so old that y'all cannot wait a bit for the next body to fill it's shoes. There has always been it's more expensive big sibling as well. Furthermore, the 7DMk2 is a great camera in the right hands. If you take the time to customize AF settings and use it under the right range of conditions (something most cameras have-limitations and strengths) it will produce amazing images. Like the 6D2, it has been bashed by many non owners and those who don't care to invest the time to work with it. Like all things, the complainers are always louder and more forthcoming than the happy owners, even when they are the minority.


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## BillB (Aug 27, 2019)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I'm liking the curve ball approach here. I think the 7D label will be reborn, but not as a true DSLR. Look where the investment money is going- to lenses. I'm betting that a "top end" hybrid APSC will emerge with IBIS. This will be engineered as a true sports/wildlife camera. Remember, Canon does not abandon its customers.


 IBIS is about slow shutter speeds and still or slow moving subjectswhy that is a big deal for a sports/wildlife camera, especially if stabilized telephoto lenses are being used.


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## StoicalEtcher (Aug 27, 2019)

> Mr Majestyk said:
> if its got more reliable AF than the 7DII then a bargain, but if it’s still 80D class AF, a poor subsitute for the 7DII.





pknight said:


> This. And only this.





AccipiterQ said:


> I'm not hopeful, fewer cross-points than the 7Dii, single processor (not that this plays into it, just showing how it's an actual downgrade from the 7Dii in a couple areas). I'm going to wait for some real world tests to come out.


I may (genuinely) have missed something here, not least since i haven't scoured all press releases/videos, but has anyone who knows the facts actually yet said this _is_ meant to be a 7Dii replacement? I know we've had a thread or two about rumours it could be the model to unify the 80D and 7D, but I've not seen anything to say "here is the 7Dii replacement/upgrade"?

Not looking for a blaze here - more ike wondering whether the specs, price, etc. mean this really isn't intended to be a 7D replacement? [I'm probably more inclined to lean towards Keith Breazeal's thoughts on the "true" replacement.]

Cheers.


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## Buck (Aug 27, 2019)

I did a search on the 50d, I saw pricing at $1299, I would say that 10 years later and with significant upgrades and improvements it comes in at a cheaper price and includes the ability to shoot video. The 60d was on sale for $1099 nine years ago.


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## slclick (Aug 27, 2019)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I may (genuinely) have missed something here, not least since i haven't scoured all press releases/videos, but has anyone who knows the facts actually yet said this _is_ meant to be a 7Dii replacement? I know we've had a thread or two about rumours it could be the model to unify the 80D and 7D, but I've not seen anything to say "here is the 7Dii replacement/upgrade"?
> 
> Not looking for a blaze here - more ike wondering whether the specs, price, etc. mean this really isn't intended to be a 7D replacement? [I'm probably more inclined to lean towards Keith Breazeal's thoughts on the "true" replacement.]
> 
> Cheers.


It's not, that's why I keep harping about it. The 7D thing is forum bred.


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## Reflex (Aug 27, 2019)

This camera seems capable at the very least.

Those who were asking for a "12 fps or nothing" burst, guess what, if you're not good enough to get nice pictures with a 10fps burst, then you should invest in yourself just a little bit, you know, to catch up the late. A 12 fps burst instead of 10 won't compensate a lack of skill. "It's 2019 for god's sake !!" as you are used to say, so it's never too late to invest in self development 

Can the scepticals provide an exemple of a better (or even equal) camera for sport photography, within the same budget (or below), and brand new of course ? I'm not part of the Canon ecosystem yet, so I'm definitely interested in your answers. And please, don't say Sony, their lenses are definitely not good (at least for the aps-c range) and quite expensive as well especially compared to what Canon has to offer...

AF lock speed, tracking an other things haven't been tested yet so it's of course too early to give this new body awards, I'm just assuming Canon wouldn't drop a 10fps camera without a really good autofocus (otherwise what would be the point ? to have 2 sharp shots out of 10 ?) but I might be wrong, just assumptions.
Its closer competitor might be the 7D2 itself and its very few last models still on sale.


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## padam (Aug 27, 2019)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I may (genuinely) have missed something here, not least since i haven't scoured all press releases/videos, but has anyone who knows the facts actually yet said this _is_ meant to be a 7Dii replacement?
> Cheers.


What they've meant is, if you want a new APS-C DSLR, this is it, and they may not continue the 7D line as-is, possibly moving it over to their mirrorless line.
I guess Canon have estimated that developing a (yet another) new sensor, new AF, etc. and pricing it at like 2500$ to have the profit margin they need is simply not worth it at this time, and with the new system they may offer stabilisation, even higher framerates without a mirror etc. to justify this kind of pricing and also keep up with the competition.

So the 90D is an upgrade to their whole APS-C line in a lot of regards (especially for video, possibly image quality), since the technology in it is 5 years younger than a 7D Mark II, that's a pretty long time and it will be a popular model that they can still sell well. They have equipped it with the AF joystick as well now, so they intended to move it up a notch in terms of controls.


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## F.L.Stewart (Aug 27, 2019)

After 42 years of buying nothing but canon. It looks as if I will pick up my first Nikon camera. With no canon models coming out geared do photography. The 7d miii is a no show. I loved the user interface ,buttons and dials was looking forward to maybe a.f at f8...no aa filter...improved low light noise....higher dynamic range. Guess its the Nikon D850 for me. I will keep my canon gear... 5dsr body , 7D mii bodies & 5d mii body


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## David - Sydney (Aug 28, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The announcement is on the 28th.


It's 9am on the 28th here!


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## AccipiterQ (Aug 28, 2019)

F.L.Stewart said:


> After 42 years of buying nothing but canon. It looks as if I will pick up my first Nikon camera. With no canon models coming out geared do photography. The 7d miii is a no show. I loved the user interface ,buttons and dials was looking forward to maybe a.f at f8...no aa filter...improved low light noise....higher dynamic range. Guess its the Nikon D850 for me. I will keep my canon gear... 5dsr body , 7D mii bodies & 5d mii body



Yeah, kind of sad, that was what I meant with my earlier post. It's not that Canon said this was a 7Dii replacement, it's that they've pretty much abandoned that demographic. I'm actually curious to see how that Sony 600mm performs.


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 28, 2019)

F.L.Stewart said:


> After 42 years of buying nothing but canon. It looks as if I will pick up my first Nikon camera. With no canon models coming out geared do photography. The 7d miii is a no show. I loved the user interface ,buttons and dials was looking forward to maybe a.f at f8...no aa filter...improved low light noise....higher dynamic range. Guess its the Nikon D850 for me. I will keep my canon gear... 5dsr body , 7D mii bodies & 5d mii body


That is a damn shame, all the wisdom, knowledge and guidance you have provided the community will be missed. Good luck with Nikon.


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## reef58 (Aug 28, 2019)

AccipiterQ said:


> Yeah, kind of sad, that was what I meant with my earlier post. It's not that Canon said this was a 7Dii replacement, it's that they've pretty much abandoned that demographic. I'm actually curious to see how that Sony 600mm performs.



I don't know the business, but I doubt Canon is throwing in the towel on the 7d2 demographic. The biggest reason is lens sales. Who buys 7d's? Wildlife people. Who buys 10k dollar white lenses wildlife people. Who doesn't jump ship each time a new camera is introduced by a rival brand, people with 10k dollar lenses.

Maybe the 90d is meant to be that camera, but I suspect they have something in the works. It may be a 1d type or a specialized 5d type. I m looking for a body to be used with my 500 f4. I thought a 7d3 was coming. I guess we shall see.


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## thomste (Aug 28, 2019)

how is the annoucement made? It is just a news release article on the canon site or do they publish some sort of live stream somewhere? Just curious....


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## slclick (Aug 28, 2019)

thomste said:


> how is the annoucement made? It is just a news release article on the canon site or do they publish some sort of live stream somewhere? Just curious....


You'll see it here as a press release I'm sure as well as on most other sites such as TDP


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## masterpix (Aug 28, 2019)

This is NOT a replacement for the 7D.. unfortunately. The "promiss" to mix both 80D and 7DII into one body was, as predicted, impossible. I wonder when it will be the "right time" to get a new 7DII body in terms of price drop. Cause in the spec, the 90D and the 7DII are almost the same.


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## thomste (Aug 28, 2019)

Canon Australia just announced both cameras on a live FB video.... no details given about when they will actually be available to purchase though


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## Michael Clark (Aug 28, 2019)

Phil Gower said:


> A simplified AF system in comparison to the 7D II and 5DSR I use, but for bird photography I find single point and Zone AF more than adequate for birds in flight photography. The real winner I’m hoping is the 1.6 crop sensor with 32.5 MP which has got to be the best spec ever for bird photography. Here’s hoping!



I've found iTR helpful for tracking airplanes in flight. It also seems to be missing from the 90D. I would think iTR would help in keeping a bird's head in focus, rather than shifting to a near wingtip as 9-point zone AF is prone to do.

Keep in mind that the 9-point zone AF in the 80D acts nothing like Single point AF with 4 or 8 point expansion does in the 7, 5, and 1 series.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 28, 2019)

AprilForever said:


> Definitely not a 7D MK III replacement. Not in specifications, certainly not in price point. Hope remains for a 7d MK III....



The 7D Mark III is dead. Ditto for the D500. Deal with it.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 28, 2019)

AccipiterQ said:


> Fewer AF cross-points than the 7Dii. Single-processor. No IBIS (not that this was expected). Higher MP count so the noise is almost certainly going to be worse than the 7Dii. Unless you're using an 80D or something I'm not sure why you would view this as an upgrade. It's objectively worse than the 7Dii in several areas, particularly those that are important to wildlife photographers. Not sure what I'm supposed to do at this point, been waiting for a 7Dii upgrade for a while now. I really don't want to dump all my glass and jump to Nikon. Sony maybe?



Nikon has officially announced there will be no D500 replacement. Ever.

Canon has all but officially announced the 7D Mark III will never be released.

Sony does not really have a dog in this fight since most wildlife photographers use their viewfinders for long periods of time that kill the batteries of mirrorless bodies.

About the only Canon option for a true upgrade to the 7D Mark II is the 1D X Mark II, and that is only if you can accept the lower pixel density. Otherwise it's a Nikon D500 before they're discontinued and gone. Just don't let the price of the AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8E FL VR and any primes longer than 200mm give you heartburn. In the case of the 70-200, Nikon's most recent offering is better than Canon's (both are excellent, but Nikon's is a bit better). Canon seems to have the advantage on everything above 200mm that is directly comparable (300/2.8 vs. 300/2.8, 400/2.8 vs. 400/2.8, etc).

After the 1D X Mark III is released early next year, prices for the 1D X Mark II should drop, both existing new stock at dealers and on the used market. By now, though, most used 1D X Mark II bodies have been shooting for almost four years and the vast majority of them likely have high shutter counts.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 28, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> The AF module might indeed be an indicator or relative AF performance, but "single or dual" processors is not. In regard to that: it's a bummer that the 90D doesn't have the single+AF assist points mode that is so popular (I use it a lot myself). But then again, it has an updated iTR sensor and algorithms which may mean it's better at subject tracking.



Where have any of the "leaked" document said the 90D will have iTR? The 80D has an RGB+IR light meter and does not have iTR. The 90D looks to have a very similar AF system to the 80D.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 28, 2019)

slclick said:


> This is a sensible approach. The 7DMkll isn't so old that y'all cannot wait a bit for the next body to fill it's shoes. There has always been it's more expensive big sibling as well. Furthermore, the 7DMk2 is a great camera in the right hands. If you take the time to customize AF settings and use it under the right range of conditions (something most cameras have-limitations and strengths) it will produce amazing images. Like the 6D2, it has been bashed by many non owners and those who don't care to invest the time to work with it. Like all things, the complainers are always louder and more forthcoming than the happy owners, even when they are the minority.



Most of us who have had their 7D Mark II bodies since shortly after it was introduced almost five years ago are probably starting to get into shutter counts that are well over the rated 200,000 shutter rating. As a body designed primarily for sports, they tend to get worked pretty hard. That's what is causing a lot of the recent impatience. We're happy with our 7D Mark IIs, but we don't want to have to buy another new one five years after it was first rolled out.

While it is true that many are getting well past 500,000 clicks before shutter failure, the chances of shutter issues start increasing appreciably at about 150,000-250,000. Less than two-thirds of 7D Mark IIs make it past 250,000, which means once you are past 200,000 or so, there's a one-in-three chance you'll have shutter issues by 250,000. Those odds are too high to depend on a body for paid work without owning a backup copy.


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## Sharlin (Aug 28, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Where have any of the "leaked" document said the 90D will have iTR? The 80D has an RGB+IR light meter and does not have iTR. The 90D looks to have a very similar AF system to the 80D.



I believe iTR was mentioned in the promo video. But here it is straight from the horse's mouth. Now, they emphasize face detection here but that's likely just marketing. The 80D doesn't have full iTR probably mostly because the resolution is so low (but does have a form of color tracking, at least in theory). But resolution is no longer a hindrance, and indeed a 220,000 pixel metering sensor wouldn't really make much sense if it weren't used for AF tracking as well.


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## flip314 (Aug 28, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Keep in mind that the 9-point zone AF in the 80D acts nothing like Single point AF with 4 or 8 point expansion does in the 7, 5, and 1 series.



I'm not too familiar with the pro cameras, what's the difference here?


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## Sharlin (Aug 28, 2019)

flip314 said:


> I'm not too familiar with the pro cameras, what's the difference here?



The expansion modes always prioritizes focusing with the center point, only using the neighboring points to make tracking more robust. Whereas the nine-point mode will in general just pick the point(s) that's closest to the camera and focus on that.


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## Mikehit (Aug 28, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I believe iTR was mentioned in the promo video. But here it is straight from the horse's mouth. Now, they emphasize face detection here but that's likely just marketing. The 80D doesn't have full iTR probably mostly because the resolution is so low (but does have a form of color tracking, at least in theory). But resolution is no longer a hindrance, and indeed a 220,000 pixel metering sensor wouldn't really make much sense if it weren't used for AF tracking as well.
> 
> View attachment 186213



That is interesting.
The 7D2 had a 150k pixel metering sensor which in theory means the 90D iTR should be superior.
Now, if their subject recognition and processing has improved for a half-decent eye AF this may reduce the need for the 1+4 or 1+8 focussing modes. 

But I realise I am probably being optimistic...


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## StoicalEtcher (Aug 28, 2019)

padam said:


> What they've meant is, if you want a new APS-C DSLR, this is it, and they may not continue the 7D line as-is, possibly moving it over to their mirrorless line.
> I guess Canon have estimated that developing a (yet another) new sensor, new AF, etc. and pricing it at like 2500$ to have the profit margin they need is simply not worth it at this time, and with the new system they may offer stabilisation, even higher framerates without a mirror etc. to justify this kind of pricing and also keep up with the competition.
> 
> So the 90D is an upgrade to their whole APS-C line in a lot of regards (especially for video, possibly image quality), since the technology in it is 5 years younger than a 7D Mark II, that's a pretty long time and it will be a popular model that they can still sell well. They have equipped it with the AF joystick as well now, so they intended to move it up a notch in terms of controls.


Yes: good point. And that's probably where I come in: this may become the king of Canon's APS-C line, but I've seen nothing to say it is supposed to be a 7Dii replacement, so it seems harsh to criticise it as "not a good replacement" for that camera. 

Better to see it as an 80D update/refresh, and judge it on that basis (I'm not a user of either, so can't comment with direct knowledge, but to me it seems like a good movement forward over the 80D).

Given what we all believe to be the state of a declining market, while I understand lines may converge, I'm less sure that Canon would give up the 7D market-space (I don't see the 1D line as a realistic alternate for many owners, given the price differential) when it seems to have such a strong following, and I agree with the logic of reef58 's comment about markets and expensive lenses.

Cheers,

Stoical


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## Phil Gower (Aug 28, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> I've found iTR helpful for tracking airplanes in flight. It also seems to be missing from the 90D. I would think iTR would help in keeping a bird's head in focus, rather than shifting to a near wingtip as 9-point zone AF is prone to do.
> 
> Keep in mind that the 9-point zone AF in the 80D acts nothing like Single point AF with 4 or 8 point expansion does in the 7, 5, and 1 series.


All goods points! But I the AF will be fine once practised with it...won’t know until we have a go with it of course. At least it will be superb for perched birds!!! I’ve always thought that hand-eye coordination is the most important determinant in BIF photography. practice makes perfect!


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## Michael Clark (Aug 30, 2019)

Reflex said:


> This camera seems capable at the very least.
> 
> Those who were asking for a "12 fps or nothing" burst, guess what, if you're not good enough to get nice pictures with a 10fps burst, then you should invest in yourself just a little bit, you know, to catch up the late. A 12 fps burst instead of 10 won't compensate a lack of skill. "It's 2019 for god's sake !!" as you are used to say, so it's never too late to invest in self development
> 
> ...



Cough - cough - (THE ORIGINAL 7D) - cough - cough...

Okay. It was actually more like 3-4 out of 10 frames in a burst were dead on focused, 3-4 more were close enough to be usable at web sized or newsprint resolutions, while the rest were totally out of focus.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 30, 2019)

reef58 said:


> I don't know the business, but I doubt Canon is throwing in the towel on the 7d2 demographic. The biggest reason is lens sales. Who buys 7d's? Wildlife people. Who buys 10k dollar white lenses wildlife people. Who doesn't jump ship each time a new camera is introduced by a rival brand, people with 10k dollar lenses.
> 
> Maybe the 90d is meant to be that camera, but I suspect they have something in the works. It may be a 1d type or a specialized 5d type. I m looking for a body to be used with my 500 f4. I thought a 7d3 was coming. I guess we shall see.





StoicalEtcher said:


> Yes: good point. And that's probably where I come in: this may become the king of Canon's APS-C line, but I've seen nothing to say it is supposed to be a 7Dii replacement, so it seems harsh to criticise it as "not a good replacement" for that camera.
> 
> Better to see it as an 80D update/refresh, and judge it on that basis (I'm not a user of either, so can't comment with direct knowledge, but to me it seems like a good movement forward over the 80D).
> 
> ...




It's not just Canon. Nikon has already made it official that there will be no update/replacement for the D500 which is the same type of APS-C body optimized for sports/action/wildlife.

I think both companies hope they can steer those buying 7D/D500 bodies to use with expensive super telephoto lenses to full frame bodies like the 1D X Mark II and D5. What they don't seem to get is that many BIF photographers want the pixel density of the 7D Mark II/D500 only offered in FF bodies by the likes of the 5Ds/5Ds R and D850 while also keeping the frame rates of the 7D Mark II and D500. No one currently offers a FF camera with 70+ MP and 10 fps with continuous AF tracking between each frame.

Then there are the 7D Mark II users shooting field sports with a 70-200/2.8. A FF camera would require a 300/2.8 (at $6K vs. $1,800) for the same reach. For those shooters, it makes no economic sense to buy the $6K lens. There's not enough money in shooting youth league/high school/small college to justify that kind of expense. Even the pro sidelines are more and more populated mostly by wealthy "weekend warriors" willing to outspend full time sports shooter on gear and then shoot for virtually nothing just to have sideline access to games. It's worse now than in 2015 when this article was published:


What Killed Editorial Sports Photography?: You’ve Got To Hustle As A Sports Shooter These Days


One reason many 7D Mark II users are getting antsy is that their 7D mark II bodies bought in late 2014 and 2015 are starting to get long in the tooth in terms of shutter count. These cameras are used for sports/action/wildlife where high frame rates and long sessions are common. While we are happy with using our 7D Mark IIs a bit longer until an fully adequate replacement is available, we also do not want to have to purchase *_another_* 7D Mark II body in 2019 while we are waiting.



Michael Clark said:


> While it is true that many are getting well past 500,000 clicks before shutter failure, the chances of shutter issues start increasing appreciably at about 150,000-250,000. Less than two-thirds of 7D Mark IIs make it past 250,000, which means once you are past 200,000 or so, there's a one-in-three chance you'll have shutter issues by 250,000. Those odds are too high to depend on a body for paid work without owning a backup copy.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 30, 2019)

masterpix said:


> This is NOT a replacement for the 7D.. unfortunately. The "promiss" to mix both 80D and 7DII into one body was, as predicted, impossible. I wonder when it will be the "right time" to get a new 7DII body in terms of price drop. Cause in the spec, the 90D and the 7DII are almost the same.



The 7D Mark II has the tougher build and shutter with a higher life rating. The 90D has a *slightly* better sensor but a *moderately* weaker AF system.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 30, 2019)

flip314 said:


> I'm not too familiar with the pro cameras, what's the difference here?



I've described it in detail in previous comments above.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 30, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> The expansion modes always prioritizes focusing with the center point, only using the neighboring points to make tracking more robust. Whereas the nine-point mode will in general just pick the point(s) that's closest to the camera and focus on that.



... such as the wing tip of a large bird instead of the head.




Mikehit said:


> That is interesting.
> The 7D2 had a 150k pixel metering sensor which in theory means the 90D iTR should be superior.
> Now, if their subject recognition and processing has improved for a half-decent eye AF this may reduce the need for the 1+4 or 1+8 focussing modes.
> 
> But I realise I am probably being optimistic...




There's certainly room for improvement of iTR as implemented in the 7D Mark II. The 1D X Mark II does iTR noticeably better than the 7D Mark II.

As far as Single AF point with 4 or 8-point expansion versus 9-point Zone AF goes, see my response to Sharlin above.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 30, 2019)

Phil Gower said:


> All goods points! But I the AF will be fine once practised with it...won’t know until we have a go with it of course. At least it will be superb for perched birds!!! I’ve always thought that hand-eye coordination is the most important determinant in BIF photography. practice makes perfect!



No one is saying one won't be able to get _any_ shots with a 90D. But anyone who is an expert with BIFs understands that better AF means a higher keeper rate. Smaller birds, such as the one you shared, tend to dip their wings as they flit about in a zig-zag manner more than larger birds that tend to fly with wings more level in straighter paths do. By waiting until the bird's wings are tilted to such an extent that they are almost parallel with the camera's sensor means 9-point Zone AF vs. Single point AF with expansion doesn't make a whole lot of difference. With larger raptors such as condors and eagles, the difference between 9-point zone AF in the 80D and Single point AF with expansion in the 7D Mark II is the difference between getting the tip of the wing that is four feet closer to the camera in perfect focus rather than the bird's head that is four feet further from the camera.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 30, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I believe iTR was mentioned in the promo video. But here it is straight from the horse's mouth. Now, they emphasize face detection here but that's likely just marketing. The 80D doesn't have full iTR probably mostly because the resolution is so low (but does have a form of color tracking, at least in theory). But resolution is no longer a hindrance, and indeed a 220,000 pixel metering sensor wouldn't really make much sense if it weren't used for AF tracking as well.
> 
> View attachment 186213



It's good to see the 80D is getting iTR. With only a single DiG!C processor, it remains to be seen how responsive it will be and if it will slow down the maximum frame rate significantly.


All of the previous models with iTR have "face tracking" as an iTR option. It remains to be seen how much, if any, the facial tracking of the 80D's iTR will be. When the 5D Mark IV came out about six months after the 1D X Mark II, Canon touted the 5D Mark IV's improved facial recognition when subjects are wearing helmets (e.g. race car drivers or football players). The improvement seemed to many to be rather subtle, rather than a quantum leap forward.


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## Phil Gower (Aug 30, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> No one is saying one won't be able to get _any_ shots with a 90D. But anyone who is an expert with BIFs understands that better AF means a higher keeper rate. Smaller birds, such as the one you shared, tend to dip their wings as they flit about in a zig-zag manner more than larger birds that tend to fly with wings more level in straighter paths do. By waiting until the bird's wings are tilted to such an extent that they are almost parallel with the camera's sensor means 9-point Zone AF vs. Single point AF with expansion doesn't make a whole lot of difference. With larger raptors such as condors and eagles, the difference between 9-point zone AF in the 80D and Single point AF with expansion in the 7D Mark II is the difference between getting the tip of the wing that is four feet closer to the camera in perfect focus rather than the bird's head that is four feet further from the camera.



I try to use single point for larger slower flying birds get it on the eye (not easy I know) and make sure I shoot at least f5.6 and greater for more dof to reduce the wing-tip issue. With practice it can be done!


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## masterpix (Aug 30, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> The 7D Mark II has the tougher build and shutter with a higher life rating. The 90D has a *slightly* better sensor but a *moderately* weaker AF system.


To be true. for most of the work I do with the camera, give me 20MP image or 50MP image, it has no real difference. Peopl will argue that 32.5MP will give you the ability to crop more, but when most of the work is presented on 4K screens which is 2160X3840 (8.2MP image) than you can crop a lot from the 20MP of the 7DII. I was relaying on higher shooter speed, somethigns of 12 to 14 frames per sec (which is not the case), more AF points (which is not the case), and tough build (which is not the case either). So teh 90D is a replacement of the 80D, and is an upgrade to it, but not for the 7DII. I hope someone is planning a surprize for us, like hiding a 7DIII under hteir sleaves, for otherwise, there is no real replacemnet for the 7DII, and as I said, I am waiting for a serious price drop to get a new one.


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## Phil Gower (Aug 30, 2019)

masterpix said:


> To be true. for most of the work I do with the camera, give me 20MP image or 50MP image, it has no real difference. Peopl will argue that 32.5MP will give you the ability to crop more, but when most of the work is presented on 4K screens which is 2160X3840 (8.2MP image) than you can crop a lot from the 20MP of the 7DII. I was relaying on higher shooter speed, somethigns of 12 to 14 frames per sec (which is not the case), more AF points (which is not the case), and tough build (which is not the case either). So teh 90D is a replacement of the 80D, and is an upgrade to it, but not for the 7DII. I hope someone is planning a surprize for us, like hiding a 7DIII under hteir sleaves, for otherwise, there is no real replacemnet for the 7DII, and as I said, I am waiting for a serious price drop to get a new one.


All sensible points...a 7D II upgrade the 90D is not and, like you, I really hope Canon is working on such an upgrade. That said 32.5 MP is a very significant increase and will enable significantly more cropping for birds and particularly for those little brown jobs!


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## Michael Clark (Sep 3, 2019)

Phil Gower said:


> I try to use single point for larger slower flying birds get it on the eye (not easy I know) and make sure I shoot at least f5.6 and greater for more dof to reduce the wing-tip issue. With practice it can be done!



Again, no one is saying it can't be done. But different tools make the same task more or less easy to accomplish and can significantly affect the success to failure ratio.


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## Michael Clark (Sep 3, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> That is interesting.
> The 7D2 had a 150k pixel metering sensor which in theory means the 90D iTR should be superior.
> Now, if their subject recognition and processing has improved for a half-decent eye AF this may reduce the need for the 1+4 or 1+8 focussing modes.
> 
> But I realise I am probably being optimistic...



Eye AF does nothing when tracking a plane at an airshow. 1+4 or 1+8 are very helpful in such situations. Ditto with race cars, motorcycles, speedboats, etc.


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## Mikehit (Sep 4, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Eye AF does nothing when tracking a plane at an airshow. 1+4 or 1+8 are very helpful in such situations. Ditto with race cars, motorcycles, speedboats, etc.



I agree, but my thinking was that if Canon have improved the discrimination and the response in the AF system to permit good eye AF, then I would assume that the same software allied to the higher resolution in the metering sensor will permit better AF all round. 
Look at what Olympus have done with their AF system - face detection led to eye detection has now led to the ability to recognise whole objstcs and track them intelligently to the point that if it recognises a car will will (ove a sequence) hone in on the driver's face.


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## masterpix (Sep 5, 2019)

Question for bird photographers, which AF method are you using, one piint. 5 points, sector, area? and what focus option do you use, the one shot, sereo, AI servo? which is the best in your experience?


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