# Review: New Canon EOS R firmware



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 10, 2019)

> During last month’s announcement of the Canon EOS 90D, Canon EOS M6 Mark II, Canon RF 15-35mm f/2.8L IS USM and Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8L IS USM, Canon also announced a new firmware update coming for the Canon EOS R coming sometime this month.
> ThePhoblographer had a chance to review the beta version of the new firmware and came away quite impressed claiming that the autofocus improvements make the EOS R focus comparable to Sony.
> *From the review:*
> Further, we were...



Continue reading...


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## sdz (Sep 10, 2019)

Canon is *******.....


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## mclaren777 (Sep 10, 2019)

sdz said:


> Canon is *******.....


People should be far more concerned about Sony. All of that R&D is really harmful to the bottom line.

I wonder if Sony even makes a profit on its camera lines (not selling sensors or lenses – just the bodies).


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## YuengLinger (Sep 10, 2019)

mclaren777 said:


> People should be far more concerned about Sony. All of that R&D is really harmful to the bottom line.
> 
> I wonder if Sony even makes a profit on its camera lines (not selling sensors or lenses – just the bodies).


No, Sony uses its boutiquey camera line to promote its sensors. If you call their tech support with a tough question, you will hear the representative sigh and say, "You do realize these cameras are just window dressing, don't you?"


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## Sharlin (Sep 10, 2019)

As I said in another thread, I wonder if the 90D and the M6II come with these improvements or if they’re limited to the R bodies for product differentiation reasons.


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## Cryhavoc (Sep 10, 2019)

Ah really? Just AF improvements and the ability to lock onto a subject and hold onto it while in motion?
Time to unload all my camera gear for Pentax now.
I was hoping this firmware update would enable a second card slot and give me ibis.

Canon is *******! ******* I say!!


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## Sharlin (Sep 10, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> I was hoping this firmware update would enable a second card slot and give me ibis.



Unfortunately a firmware update isn’t enough to enable those. You have to flip the corresponding DIP switches on the mainboard as well.


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## Viggo (Sep 10, 2019)

It took ONE reply before someone mentioned the S-word.

Now I can’t wait for this firmware. I find it epic for most of what I do, hopefully the last bit with crazy erratic action gets a bit better.


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## unfocused (Sep 10, 2019)

I'm wondering if this is a new trend we will see with mirrorless. It might be possible to more readily tweak some of the underlying software with mirrorless than it was with DLSRs.


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## Viggo (Sep 10, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I'm wondering if this is a new trend we will see with mirrorless. It might be possible to more readily tweak some of the underlying software with mirrorless than it was with DLSRs.


Highly plausible I think. Being that the AF is on the sensor and not a separate more locked off sensor and hardware layout.


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## gbc (Sep 10, 2019)

Viggo said:


> It took ONE reply before someone mentioned the S-word.
> 
> Now I can’t wait for this firmware. I find it epic for most of what I do, hopefully the last bit with crazy erratic action gets a bit better.


This will be a boon for music photography. The autofocus in a live music environment has been the part I've found the most lacking with the R so far.


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## shutterlag (Sep 10, 2019)

mclaren777 said:


> People should be far more concerned about Sony. All of that R&D is really harmful to the bottom line.
> 
> I wonder if Sony even makes a profit on its camera lines (not selling sensors or lenses – just the bodies).



*Sony's* 2018 fiscal year (2018FY), which ended March 31, 2019, saw increased sales of 14.6 billion yen for its *Imaging* Products and Solutions *division* for a total of 670.5 billion yen. 

“While two percent might not seem impressive, Nikon’s imaging division reported a 17.9 percent decrease while Canon reported an annual decrease of 11.3 percent YOY.” I’m not a financial analysts and I don’t think DPR has one on staff either, but what this means is Sony’s single-lens Cyber-shot and interchangeable lens Alphas are offsetting the continued contraction of the point-and-shoot market.


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## shutterlag (Sep 10, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> As I said in another thread, I wonder if the 90D and the M6II come with these improvements or if they’re limited to the R bodies for product differentiation reasons.



They come with it. Watch the demo vids from the 90D/m6ii release party at the race track.


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## shutterlag (Sep 10, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Highly plausible I think. Being that the AF is on the sensor and not a separate more locked off sensor and hardware layout.



You guys are discussing what's already been the reality for *years* with mirrorless sysstems. Look at Fuji if you want a great example. The evolution of the X-T1 is a good one. The autofocus system was horrible (think EOS-M) upon release. By the end, firmware v4, it matched the performance of the next X-T2 model, strictly through firmware. Similar story with the X-E2. That one got so much better through firmware that they re-branded the newer models as the X-E2S.


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## shutterlag (Sep 10, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> Unfortunately a firmware update isn’t enough to enable those. You have to flip the corresponding DIP switches on the mainboard as well.



And you need to change the neck strap...


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 10, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I'm wondering if this is a new trend we will see with mirrorless. It might be possible to more readily tweak some of the underlying software with mirrorless than it was with DLSRs.


Perhaps, although recall that f/8 AF was added to the 1D X with a firmware update.


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## MEAllred (Sep 10, 2019)

Phoblographer... Is he a Canon ambassador/representative? Most likely yes. Why should anyone believe anything he has to say???


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## Otara (Sep 10, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> As I said in another thread, I wonder if the 90D and the M6II come with these improvements or if they’re limited to the R bodies for product differentiation reasons.



The 90D does on liveview, but with the OVF, its a different system, which felt pretty similar to the 80D to me, other than the framerate. Which is no bad thing obviously.

The M6 II with the VF was noticeable better again, as the 14fps meant that the screen just looks slightly choppy, making it very easy to keep seeing whats going on - it still does on the R, but the lower framerate made it a bit harder - in silent mode its another story, but that still has the caveats about distortion. So far it seems like DPAF is DPAF, as in they're releasing its best version with whatever camera is coming out.


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## Viggo (Sep 10, 2019)

MEAllred said:


> Phoblographer... Is he a Canon ambassador/representative? Most likely yes. Why should anyone believe anything he has to say???


And you’re the oracle then?


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## AlanF (Sep 10, 2019)

They are upfront: “Editor’s Note: This trip was fully paid for and covered by Canon. The Phoblographer’s staff is trained to resist any sort of overly positive reporting that could come as a result of these press excursions. This report is being presented to you with facts.”


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## canonnews (Sep 10, 2019)

MEAllred said:


> Phoblographer... Is he a Canon ambassador/representative? Most likely yes. Why should anyone believe anything he has to say???


canon already published a comparison video as well so you can see with your own eyes. I don't think CR posted the video, so here's where I posted it back on August 28th.









Canon announces firmware update to EOS R and RP coming soon


Canon snuck in a little gem with all the announcements. A significant auto focus firmware update will be coming for the EOS RP and the EOS R in the coming weeks. Improvements for both the eye AF and also the AF tracking will be handled in this firmware update. If what is shown on the video is...



www.canonnews.com





it's vastly improved. Like night and day.

the only question will be - who on the net will re-do their reviews on the EOS R and the EOS RP. when you consider the EOS R and the initial firmware to version 1.2, it's vastly different. Enough reviews should be revised. (looking at you, dpreview)

(edit sorry replied i guess to the wrong person)


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## Bentley Boy (Sep 10, 2019)

canonnews said:


> canon already published a comparison video as well so you can see with your own eyes. I don't think CR posted the video, so here's where I posted it back on August 28th.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I watched that video early on, and if it's as shown, it will be a huge improvement. The tracking will be welcome for my dance photography, since the R is prone to randomly losing its mind and following lord knows what. In my opinion, the more distant eye tracking is just to shut up the critics that think focusing on the eye from 20 feet is somehow needed, seemingly forgetting the depth of field is increasing with distance.


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## wanako (Sep 11, 2019)

It appears I may be jumping on to mirrorless sooner than expected. My 6D Mark II is excellent and more than enough for what I do, but these new gadgets coming out are ticking my tech nerd side. My little Fuji X-T10, despite its age, didn't help matters either, pushing me to go all out. And now with these fantastic firmware upgrades from Canon, I feel my jump to an EOS R may be soon. lol.



canonnews said:


> the only question will be - who on the net will re-do their reviews on the EOS R and the EOS RP. when you consider the EOS R and the initial firmware to version 1.2, it's vastly different. Enough reviews should be revised. (looking at you, dpreview)



none of them will want to. It doesn't generate clicks and they wouldn't want to be caught with their foot in their mouth.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

wanako said:


> none of them will want to. It doesn't generate clicks and they wouldn't want to be caught with their foot in their mouth.



If that's actually their thought process, it's ridiculous. Their review was correct _when they wrote it_ and it would be commendable of them to update it when the situation changes. So now they're going to let a correct review turn into a clearly wrong one.


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## Jethro (Sep 11, 2019)

Can't wait to try this. it's due 'late September' isn't it??


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## Famateur (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> ...You have to flip the corresponding DIP switches on the mainboard as well.



Now _that _takes me back! Good times...


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

MEAllred said:


> Phoblographer... Is he a Canon ambassador/representative? Most likely yes. Why should anyone believe anything he has to say???


Preposterous! Why should I believe you?


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

Viggo said:


> And you’re the oracle then?


Only if he bakes cookies.


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## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2019)

shutterlag said:


> They come with it. Watch the demo vids from the 90D/m6ii release party at the race track.



The enhanced subject acquisition seems to be there, but on the other hand this video quite strongly indicates that the improved eye AF is _not_ included. Although especially with a crop sensor, it shouldn't really matter… there should be plenty enough DoF for whole-body portraits with any lens.


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## PerKr (Sep 11, 2019)

As soon as the firmware is out we'll have the Northrups putting out a video on how "Canon AF DESTROYS Sony", followed by one on how the "Sony A7V revolutionizes photography" and another "Micro Four Thirds is dead" followed by a "why the Olympus E-M5III is our top travel camera"...


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

PerKr said:


> As soon as the firmware is out we'll have the Northrups putting out a video on how "Canon AF DESTROYS Sony", followed by one on how the "Sony A7V revolutionizes photography" and another "Micro Four Thirds is dead" followed by a "why the Olympus E-M5III is our top travel camera"...



Well, at least the Northrupian over-hype is non-discriminatory. They love everything for 15 seconds. As opposed to having a grudge against some particular brand.


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## koenkooi (Sep 11, 2019)

PerKr said:


> As soon as the firmware is out we'll have the Northrups putting out a video on how "Canon AF DESTROYS Sony", followed by one on how the "Sony A7V revolutionizes photography" and another "Micro Four Thirds is dead" followed by a "why the Olympus E-M5III is our top travel camera"...



Or they go the 6D2 route: "WORST CAMERA EVER" and then during a Canon vlogging press spree "BEST VLOGGING CAMERA EVER". 
I have a hard time deciding what to think about that change of heart. The 6D2 by itself is an excellent camera, but if a bunch of influencers simultaneously and suddenly have a change of heart during a Canon promotion I can't help but think a bit of money changed hands.


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## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> Or they go the 6D2 route: "WORST CAMERA EVER" and then during a Canon vlogging press spree "BEST VLOGGING CAMERA EVER".
> I have a hard time deciding what to think about that change of heart. The 6D2 by itself is an excellent camera, but if a bunch of influencers simultaneously and suddenly have a change of heart during a Canon promotion I can't help but think a bit of money changed hands.



I think it’s more likely just about piggybacking on Canon’s marketing bandwagon to get views while the topic is hot. Basically free exposure. The sudden change of heart thing is just a trick to get more attention.


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## woodman411 (Sep 11, 2019)

canonnews said:


> the only question will be - who on the net will re-do their reviews on the EOS R and the EOS RP. when you consider the EOS R and the initial firmware to version 1.2, it's vastly different. Enough reviews should be revised. (looking at you, dpreview)



Hell will freeze over before dpr does or says anything favorable to Canon besides condescending and unsubstantial praise, I've stopped reading dpr a long time ago (Bryan Carnathan at tdp has the best online reviews: comprehensive, objective, and balanced). Anyway, now that Eye AF and tracking AF have been improved, I hope they don't stop there. A few AF innovations I'm hoping for:

- as mentioned in the OP article, detecting the eye when the face is completely on one side would be useful, as would detecting sunglasses
- Eye-blink detection, similar in concept to anti-flicker, where shutter is delayed if blinking is detected
- multi face detection for couple or group shots, combined with Eye-blink detection, would be an awesome feature (How many times have you taken a group shot and one person in the group blinked?). Also have Max aperture detection to get all faces in focus at the maximum aperture
- pet eye detection (I know Sony already has this)


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

woodman411 said:


> Also have Max aperture detection to get all faces in focus at the maximum aperture


A-DEP is dead. Long live A-DEP! 

Seriously, that would be a cool feature, to combine face detection with A-DEP (in P, Tv or Fv) such that the camera selects an aperture where all the faces in the frame are within the DoF.


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## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> A-DEP is dead. Long live A-DEP!
> 
> Seriously, that would be a cool feature, to combine face detection with A-DEP (in P, Tv or Fv) such that the camera selects an aperture where all the faces in the frame are within the DoF.



As it happens, the 90D (and I presume the M6II too) has a new ”group photo” scene mode which would appear to do just that. Doesn’t help if you need more creative control, of course.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> As it happens, the 90D (and I presume the M6II too) has a new ”group photo” scene mode which would appear to do just that. Doesn’t help if you need more creative control, of course.


Nice, thanks for the info!


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## woodman411 (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> As it happens, the 90D (and I presume the M6II too) has a new ”group photo” scene mode which would appear to do just that. Doesn’t help if you need more creative control, of course.



Nice, maybe that means it's a possibility for a future R firmware


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## koenkooi (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> As it happens, the 90D (and I presume the M6II too) has a new ”group photo” scene mode which would appear to do just that. Doesn’t help if you need more creative control, of course.



The M6 II manual makes no mention of that mode.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> A-DEP is dead. Long live A-DEP!
> 
> Seriously, that would be a cool feature, to combine face detection with A-DEP (in P, Tv or Fv) such that the camera selects an aperture where all the faces in the frame are within the DoF.



I can see it now: Someone taking a group picture, and some bystander walks by in the distance and the camera tries to go to f/100 (with ISO having an exponent and shutter speed verging on "bulb") to get the depth of field "right."

But I agree, on the whole it's a good idea--and if/when I get the M6 II (about 30 seconds after I give up on there ever being an M5 II) I'll have some access to it.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I can see it now: Someone taking a group picture, and some bystander walks by *in the distance* and the camera tries to go to f/100 (with ISO having an exponent and shutter speed verging on "bulb") to get the depth of field "right."


It's a non issue. Talk to any Sony troll, they'll tell you that while Sony's face detect can easily detect and focus on close faces, distant faces, clown faces, alien faces, dog faces, fish faces, praying mantis faces, and the face of the man in the moon, Canon's face detect AF is limited to people staring right into the camera from a very close distance.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> It's a non issue. Talk to any Sony troll, they'll tell you that while Sony's face detect can easily detect and focus on close faces, distant faces, clown faces, alien faces, dog faces, fish faces, praying mantis faces, and the face of the man in the moon, Canon's face detect AF is limited to people staring right into the camera from a very close distance.



Whew, I'm glad those trolls are around to help clear things up.


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## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> The M6 II manual makes no mention of that mode.



So it seems. Presumably it's an OVF-only feature then (maybe with on-sensor shooting the auto mode recognizes a group of multiple people and adjusts the aperture accordingly, without a special scene mode required).


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## CollegePhotographerClay (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I can see it now: Someone taking a group picture, and some bystander walks by in the distance and the camera tries to go to f/100 (with ISO having an exponent and shutter speed verging on "bulb") to get the depth of field "right."
> 
> But I agree, on the whole it's a good idea--and if/when I get the M6 II (about 30 seconds after I give up on there ever being an M5 II) I'll have some access to it.


I created an account just to like this comment. Personally I'd love Canon to have some of the tricks it had back in the day (eye detect like the EOS3).


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## mjg79 (Sep 11, 2019)

This is really promising. However I don't normally read that site (Phoblographer) - are they normally reliable? I mean if you read some websites they tend to claim every single camera they ever use is the greatest camera ever and you must click the link below if you want to buy it etc etc. Or is this more reputable?

I'm quite impressed if so. It would seem to suggest a new style line up for RF mount with Canon as the R now seems to sit somewhere between a 6D equivalent and 5D equivalent line.

It's clever marketing too as if Canon establishes (like Fuji has done for example) that they will keep improving their cameras once released it buys them a little leeway on release. Previously it was a very bad idea to buy a camera hoping it would be improved but that no longer looks so far fetched.


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## melgross (Sep 11, 2019)

MEAllred said:


> Phoblographer... Is he a Canon ambassador/representative? Most likely yes. Why should anyone believe anything he has to say???


Because he’s been around for years, and if you read his work, you can see that he’s been honest over that time. Besides, we will see the firmware before too long. If he’s way off from reality, it will damage him. Why should he do that?


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## AlanF (Sep 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> It's a non issue. Talk to any Sony troll, they'll tell you that while Sony's face detect can easily detect and focus on close faces, distant faces, clown faces, alien faces, dog faces, fish faces, praying mantis faces, and the face of the man in the moon, Canon's face detect AF is limited to people staring right into the camera from a very close distance.


You missed out bull faeces.


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## Adrianf (Sep 12, 2019)

Surely the most significant thing is that this is a development update, not just a bug fix. A real improvement in Canon's after sales service.


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## zogdart (Sep 12, 2019)

I can't wait to get this new firmware. Now the question is how much of an improvement will it be! but a least it will be an improvement. When I opened the article one things got my attention, If you look at all the sample images he doesn't have any full length, I mean if you want to prove a point about the new firmware it would have a good idea to post full length otherwise it kind of looks like if he would have done the test with the old firmware...


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## RayValdez360 (Sep 12, 2019)

melgross said:


> Because he’s been around for years, and if you read his work, you can see that he’s been honest over that time. Besides, we will see the firmware before too long. If he’s way off from reality, it will damage him. Why should he do that?


Peopel lie all the time. how many peopel will he lose if he lies or exaggerates a firmware update for a camera most people dont have ?


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## RayValdez360 (Sep 12, 2019)

zogdart said:


> I can't wait to get this new firmware. Now the question is how much of an improvement will it be! but a least it will be an improvement. When I opened the article one things got my attention, If you look at all the sample images he doesn't have any full length, I mean if you want to prove a point about the new firmware it would have a good idea to post full length otherwise it kind of looks like if he would have done the test with the old firmware...


A video would actually be more informative. I can get sharp photos already. A video who show the improvement in action.


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## Bahrd (Sep 12, 2019)

shutterlag said:


> And you need to change the neck strap...


Pity! In Sony you don't have to!

But (slightly more) seriously: Sony just make Canon mirrorless cameras better...


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## Cryhavoc (Sep 12, 2019)

Canon had posted on their R firmware site 1.4 for a short period of time. The download link was there but it took you to an error 404 page since the content was blocked. Says the firmware release date is 9-26. I took a screen snag of the page. The links and info is now gone from the R firmware page though.


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## Jonathan Thill (Sep 12, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> Canon had posted on their R firmware site 1.4 for a short period of time. The download link was there but it took you to an error 404 page since the content was blocked. Says the firmware release date is 9-26. I took a screen snag of the page. The links and info is now gone from the R firmware page though.



Same thing happened with the 1.2 update, the Canon Canada site had the page up days early but the link to the software went to 404. In the end the link went live on the day listed. 

I am glad it is getting closer, not that I really use Eye Detection or Tracking but as a software developer I like new shiny updates


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## Cryhavoc (Sep 12, 2019)

Ramage said:


> Same thing happened with the 1.2 update, the Canon Canada site had the page up days early but the link to the software went to 404. In the end the link went live on the day listed.
> 
> I am glad it is getting closer, not that I really use Eye Detection or Tracking but as a software developer I like new shiny updates



just came back from Kenmore Camera (they had a pristine/used BG-22 for the R dirt cheap) and they had said Canon came in the week before with the m6 mkII the 90D and an R with the latest firmware. The sales persons there tried out the R with 1.4 and said it is just night and day what this new firmware does.


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## Ozarker (Sep 13, 2019)

zogdart said:


> I can't wait to get this new firmware. Now the question is how much of an improvement will it be! but a least it will be an improvement. When I opened the article one things got my attention, If you look at all the sample images he doesn't have any full length, I mean if you want to prove a point about the new firmware it would have a good idea to post full length otherwise it kind of looks like if he would have done the test with the old firmware...


I have a full length with the present firmware at f/1.2 with the RF 85mm. Incredible detail and focus.


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## YuengLinger (Sep 14, 2019)

After using the EOS R with the 50mm 1.2 for a few hours, I can say the firmware update will definitely be welcome. Why? Because what throws me off when somebody walks towards the camera from a distance is the AF frame goes about to the size of the person's torso, making it hard to place AF on the face/head area. (Even when using the little circle to specify the face/head as the starting point.) So if the firmware update involves allowing for a smaller AF frame while tracking, then it might reassure me that AF is indeed on the face during the subject's entire approach.

Does this make sense? Another way to say it, when a subject is, say, 15 meters away walking towards the camera, using a small AF frame _ without_ tracking seems easier, because once +Tracking is turned on, the AF frame stays too big until the subject gets, ummm, about 5 meters away. Maybe the distances sound too far, but they are what I've commonly shot with the 5DIV for several years now.

Now, to be sure, I am seeing some amazing AF performance. And I need to practice a LOT more with this camera. But I do question some of the hit rates I've read online, and now wonder if SOME of them are due to creating less challenging scenario's for the EOS R than the 5D IV when using AF tracking. (Such as having the subject walk more slowly, straighter, and starting a little closer. I don't mean this is done to make the camera seem better, but because it is a new type of FF body, with a new AF experience, and the EVF takes a while to get used to. Mix these factors together and some photographers/reviewers might be unconsciously taking things a little easy with the AF tracking.


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## Viggo (Sep 14, 2019)

I do not go easy on AF performance  but in wouldn’t use auto tracking for a lot of things other people might, I like my single point. I find hitrate increased quite a bit when using -1 for tracking sensitivity and +1 on acc/deacc.


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