# A Brief 2013 Canon Roadmap [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 13, 2012)

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<p><strong>What’s in the pipeline

</strong>As always, things quiet down after an announcement. The two recently announced lenses seem to have generated quite a bit of talk, and that’s always good, even if a lot of it was negative towards the pricing. I hope to have both the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/898652-REG/Canon_6313b002_EF_24_70mm_f_4_0L_IS.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">EF 24-70 f/4L IS</a> and <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/898726-REG/Canon_5178b002_EF_35mm_f_2_0_IS.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">EF 35 f/2 IS</a> in the hands of our new reviewer sometime in December.</p>
<p><strong>EOS

</strong>Two new DSLRs will be coming in the first quarter of 2013. Most likely APS-C cameras. Definitely a Rebel and most likely one of the 70D or 7D Mark II.</p>
<p><strong>EOS-M

</strong>New lenses in Q1 of 2013 will be announced. Expect a fast prime and a telephoto lens. No mentions of a new EOS-M camera. We’re all hoping for a firmware update to improve the AF of the EOS-M.</p>
<p><strong>Cinema EOS

</strong>Going with some previous reports, we’re told that new Cinema EOS lenses will be announced by the end of January. No cameras are in the immediate pipeline. We’re still waiting for the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855962-REG/Canon_EOS_1D_C_EOS_1D_C_4K_Cinema.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">EOS 1D C</a> to make it to market as well as the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889545-REG/Canon_EOS_C100_EF_Cinema.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">EOS C100</a>.</p>
<p><strong>The Big Megapixel Camera

</strong>They’re out there, announcement is unknown. It is definitely 40+ mp and will be geared to studio and landscape photographers. Apparently there’s lots of new technology in this upcoming body.</p>
<p><strong>Same info received at [<a href="http://www.canonwatch.com/rumor-canons-2013-roadmap-lenses-new-rebel-eos-70d-high-res-dslr/" target="_blank">CW</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## infared (Nov 13, 2012)

*Re: A Brief 2013 Canon Roadmap*

Can't WAIT to see the Canon price tag on the big megapixel camera...Basesd on their post-tsunami pricing it should be a WHOPPER!


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## nda (Nov 13, 2012)

arrrgggghhhhhhh, new technology


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## dolina (Nov 13, 2012)

I hope the big megapixel camera will have built-in wifi-based features found in the CamRanger and TetherFly.


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## pakosouthpark (Nov 13, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> </strong>They’re out there, announcement is unknown. It is definitely 40+ mp and will be geared to studio and landscape photographers. Apparently there’s lots of new technology in this upcoming body.</p>



lol yeah new technology for canon, ancient for other brands..


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## AmbientLight (Nov 13, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> lol yeah new technology for canon, ancient for other brands..



Can you please enlighten us as to what might be ancient technology for you? Are you talking about medium format or Nikon's D800? If yes, what's your point? Canon has been told not to push the megapixels for years. Nikon has been told to do the exact opposite. Both vendors reacted to the demands of their customer base.


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## Renzokuken (Nov 13, 2012)

Hope technology = significant improvements in sensor architecture and design 

been seeing a lot of that from competing brands like Sony and Nikon, wait Nikon's using Sony's sensor right? So I guess it's just Sony??


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## AmbientLight (Nov 13, 2012)

Renzokuken said:


> Hope technology = significant improvements in sensor architecture and design
> 
> been seeing a lot of that from competing brands like Sony and Nikon, wait Nikon's using Sony's sensor right? So I guess it's just Sony??



Yes, as far as I know sensor technology is from Sony. Nikon is limited to provide electronics and software in addition to Sony's sensor. That must be fairly limiting on a development side (i.e. not to be able to design/control the entire setup), but Nikon is still able to provide something good in this situation, which is quite impressive.


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## jukka (Nov 13, 2012)

AmbientLight said:


> pakosouthpark said:
> 
> 
> > lol yeah new technology for canon, ancient for other brands..
> ...




Canon pushed the APS to 18Mp years ago, they can expose a 18x24 cmos surface in one piece to an reasonable price=APS APS H
No, they have not the sensor tech and the know how to make a 24x36mm sensor with high resolution and with a modern lay out and to a competing low price. 

"Both vendors reacted to the demands of their customer base"

What you base this statement on? People are asking after higher resolution from Canon and a 24x36mm sensor.

Et voi valehdella itseään loputtomiin


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## jukka (Nov 13, 2012)

AmbientLight said:


> Renzokuken said:
> 
> 
> > Hope technology = significant improvements in sensor architecture and design
> ...



Nikon works together with Renesas, Aptina and Sony, the Aptina sensor in Nikon J1, V1 has a QE who match the Sonys best column ADC sensors.


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## Jesse (Nov 13, 2012)

14-24, 50 1.4 IS, 45 and 90mm TS-E please


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## K-amps (Nov 13, 2012)

AmbientLight said:


> Renzokuken said:
> 
> 
> > Hope technology = significant improvements in sensor architecture and design
> ...



For the Same sensor in Sony Cams and in Nikons... the Nikons seem to extract better DR and noise for the same analog sensor... Tells me Nikon's AD and amplification algo's are perhaps superior...

In some ways, Canon is like Intel... Nikon like AMD... AMD once beat Intel to the 1Ghz mark, caught it napping, because Intel was both arrogant and lazy... but then it came back with a Bang and AMD is still playing catch up after a decade... so there is precedence in the tech industry for catching up and reversing the lead. AMD is now slashing prices to make it's products interesting.... Nikon is already feeling the pressure and competatively pricing it's products trying to get back market share... 

This year Nikon sensors have been good. Lets see what Canon brings to the table with the 0.18 uM process next year...


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## M.ST (Nov 13, 2012)

Well all want a 70D (7D Mark II) and the big megapixel camera now and not in 2013.

And we want a EF 14-24 2.8 L now too.


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## AdamJ (Nov 13, 2012)

Please don't let this descend into yet another Canon sensor vs Nikon sensor debate. They've become boring and pointless.


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## jukka (Nov 13, 2012)

K-amps said:


> AmbientLight said:
> 
> 
> > Renzokuken said:
> ...



Pentax are using the same 16Mp as Nikon and K5 has a huge DR at base iso
Sony has "mirror less" cameras who are stealing lights and there can also be different CFA and micro lenses regardless if the "sensor" is the same.


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## sanj (Nov 13, 2012)

Thank you CR guy for posting something. We have something new to talk about.

Talking about lens caps was getting bit much.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2012)

sanj said:


> Talking about lens caps was getting bit much.



Hey, at least the lens caps are *real* products, some of which are already available...


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## RLPhoto (Nov 13, 2012)

New Fast Primes Canon!


35L II

50mm 1.4 II

135 F/1.8L IS USM <----- I Really wants one.


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## unfocused (Nov 13, 2012)

AdamJ said:


> Please don't let this descend into yet another Canon sensor vs Nikon sensor debate. They've become boring and pointless.



How about the future of APS-H? Oh...wait... that's boring and pointless as well.

Will there be a 7DII? Super boring and super pointless.

In fact, I'm having a hard time coming up with a topic that hasn't been flogged to death on this forum.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 13, 2012)

unfocused said:


> AdamJ said:
> 
> 
> > Please don't let this descend into yet another Canon sensor vs Nikon sensor debate. They've become boring and pointless.
> ...



I know. Even the lens caps have been beaten into dust in these forums.


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## Stuart (Nov 13, 2012)

I wonder if 40M is the new 20M, basically will all bodies start to have circa 40Mpixel sensors including the APS-c rebels? 
If so should we hold out for this next generation?
(Assumptions are that more pixels cone with enhanced Dynamic range/colour depth etc.)


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> Even the lens caps have been beaten into dust in these forums.



Nikon's lens caps have on-latch ADCs and the springs are sourced from Sony, leading to much better quantum aural efficiency - Nikon's old caps are much less noisy than Canon's new caps. C'mon, Canon...you've got some catching up to do!!!


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## K-amps (Nov 13, 2012)

M.ST said:


> Well all want a 70D (7D Mark II) and the big megapixel camera now and not in 2013.
> 
> And we want a EF 14-24 2.8 L now too.



And Canon wants you to be in waiting... Salivating... so that you will pay 30% more since the anticipation will be a killer 



RLPhoto said:


> 135 F/1.8L IS USM <----- I Really wants one.



Will you buy it for $2199 ?


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## RLPhoto (Nov 13, 2012)

K-amps said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > 135 F/1.8L IS USM <----- I Really wants one.
> ...



YES! 8)


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## K-amps (Nov 13, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
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## RLPhoto (Nov 13, 2012)

K-amps said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...



2799$?

YES!

If course my expectations are the performance of the 200mm F/2L. On the side note, This is post # 1337. ;D


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## K-amps (Nov 13, 2012)

Interestingly thats what I am willing to pay for the 200 F2


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## AmbientLight (Nov 13, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Interestingly thats what I am willing to pay for the 200 F2


You can do the following: Purchase a 135mm f2 and a 7D Mark II (or 70D or something). This gets you a 200mm f2-like combination on crop. That's in your budget, but image quality of the real 200mm on full-frame would probably still be better.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 13, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Interestingly thats what I am willing to pay for the 200 F2



Interesting, I didn't know you could get a 200mm F/2 IS for 2799$.


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## hmmm (Nov 13, 2012)

....meanwhile....anything new on the production *6D* showing up???


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## bchernicoff (Nov 13, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> On the side note, This is post # 1337. ;D



Time to hack the Gibson.


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## rpt (Nov 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Talking about lens caps was getting bit much.
> ...


True but if you can't have a decent brawl about DR what is the point?


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## rpt (Nov 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Even the lens caps have been beaten into dust in these forums.
> ...


Canon, if you are following us you can see that we need some new products or at least some vaporware


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## AdamJ (Nov 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Even the lens caps have been beaten into dust in these forums.
> ...



While this thread remains refreshingly light-hearted, here's a sketch I thought you might like, Neuro.

Brain Surgeon - That Mitchell & Webb Look , Series 3 - BBC Two


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## Zlatko (Nov 13, 2012)

jukka said:


> AmbientLight said:
> 
> 
> > pakosouthpark said:
> ...


Every time a higher megapixel camera is introduced, we see forum posts about the silliness of the "megapixel war" and how camera makers should really be focusing on improving other things, not "just" giving us more megapixels. There are often comments about how megapixels are driven by marketing, not by photographers' demands. A few years back, many photographers said that 8, 10 or 12mp was plenty for their work. I remember a few photographers objecting the the original 12mp 5D as having "too many megapixels". I know some who always shoot their 5D2 and 5D3 at the medium (10mp) raw file size. No doubt Canon has listened to some of that; for example, they substantially upgraded the 5D2 to create the 5D3 _without_ adding more megapixels. The resulting 5D3 is for many photographers the dream version of the 5D2.

About the only thing I would like to see added to the "roadmap" is a new, improved 50mm f/1.4, sharper wide open and with more reliable AF. I don't need more megapixels or a new sensor, at least not for my current work. No doubt some Canon photographers do want more megapixels. So I won't be surprised if Canon does introduce a high mp body to meet their needs.


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## AprilForever (Nov 13, 2012)

My Roadmap:

With the new 18 micrometer (or whatnot) process, first, APS-C (according to Northlight): 
7D MK II - 2 stop improved ISO, I stop better DR, better AF, all manner of other goodies

Then, wheedle that down to the rest ofthe mob, the 70D, the next rebel...

Then, with the process down, out comes the 42 mp camera everyone talks about. How do I know 42? Hitchhiker's Guide. It will basically replace the old 1DsIII.

At some point, they realize the madness of their ways and come our with a 1D mk IV replacement (for real, the 1DX isn't...). It could be APS-H, but I think it will be APS-C, and much like the 7D mk II, except more expensive and Uber. 

And then the 7D mk III will come out, and all the rest of the photographic world will tremble!


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## RGomezPhotos (Nov 13, 2012)

Gosh, I'm drooling at the notion of a 40+MP camera geared for studio from Canon. As long as it's done right.


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## rahkshi007 (Nov 13, 2012)

For landscape photographer, i don't think they need 40mp, but really need great dynamic range.


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## dolina (Nov 13, 2012)

When the 1DX came out I knew the camera wasn't a 1D4 replacement to me. It was a full frame body but did not increase or at least maintain the pixel density. It also lacked f/8 lens autofocus at the time as well.

This made the 5D3 look very competitive to me. But I have grown fond of 1-Series bodies so I kept to what I had.

I am looking towards Canon advancing from the 0.5 µm generation CIS wafer fab process so better bodies can be made.

But I encourage people to upgrade for the sake of upgrading. 



Zlatko said:


> jukka said:
> 
> 
> > AmbientLight said:
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## crasher8 (Nov 13, 2012)

They haven't asked me but I'll still give my 2cents:

Get the 50mm for the masses up to speed. Build, USM and sharper wide open. 

A couple more pancakes please. 22 f/2 or 1.8

7D2, just to end the waiting.

5D3 firmware in January, not April

14-24 2.8 L

update the 135 and 200 pipes

Weather Sealing on ALL L series lenses


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## ScottyP (Nov 13, 2012)

How can there be another Rebel by March 2013????? The T4i just hit stores. 

Hope instead it is both 7D and 70D??


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## zim (Nov 13, 2012)

AdamJ - best laugh today thanks for that (I work with doctors and surgeons)


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## Marsu42 (Nov 13, 2012)

crasher8 said:


> 5D3 firmware in January, not April



Canon might fulfill your with and release it in Jan 2014 ... a slight delay is not unheard of 



ScottyP said:


> Hope instead it is both 7D and 70D??



It would be surprising if Canon wouldn't release the more expensive 7d2 way before the tech trickles down to the 70d. But that way, 70d customers might get the fixes for problems that were discovered on the 7d2 :-> ... oh my, I am annoyed today, shouldn't have read about the 5d3 problems with low-light af :-o


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## K-amps (Nov 13, 2012)

zim said:


> AdamJ - best laugh today thanks for that (I work with doctors and surgeons)



+1 .... I have a few "humble" doctor friends myself...


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## scrup (Nov 13, 2012)

How about USB charging.

It mite take a while to charge the battery fully, but will make it better for travelling with a smaller adapter or using a smartphone adapter.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2012)

AdamJ said:


> While this thread remains refreshingly light-hearted, here's a sketch I thought you might like, Neuro.



That was great, thanks! But...it ended early. The nuclear physicist hadn't yet joined the party... :


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## Jesse (Nov 13, 2012)

Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2012)

Jesse said:


> Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?



Since APS-C bodies probably outnumber FF bodies by at least a double-digit ratio (maybe higher), Canon cares about APS-C cameras...a lot!


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## Marsu42 (Nov 13, 2012)

Jesse said:


> Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?


Except for the bigger viewfinder on ff (unless it's an evf) aps-c has lots of advantages, and with more advanced sensors the iso noise problem will get less pressing - see http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/07/the-full-frame-move


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 13, 2012)

Renzokuken said:


> Hope technology = significant improvements in sensor architecture and design
> 
> been seeing a lot of that from competing brands like Sony and Nikon, wait Nikon's using Sony's sensor right? So I guess it's just Sony??


Nikon uses their own sensors as well as Sony sensors. however, Glass is far more important than bodies, and the photographer is far more important than either.
I would not worry about a tiny difference in sensors.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Except for the bigger viewfinder on ff (unless it's an evf) aps-c has lots of advantages, and with more advanced sensors the iso noise problem will get less pressing - see http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/07/the-full-frame-move


I like Roger's blogs, and only rarely does he make an incorrect statement, but this one stuck out:



> There are no 18-270mm *or even 18-200mm full frame lenses*, so the “one lens solution” is basically a crop-sensor only club.



18-200mm is equivalent to 29-320mm on FF, and both Nikon and Canon offer 28-300mm full frame lenses. My 28-300L does very well as a 'one lens solution'.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 13, 2012)

Jesse said:


> Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?



For an average Joe....YES. My sister in law just bought 4Ti and she loves her camera.

For outdoor shooting, we still again alot benefits from crop - REACH.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 13, 2012)

K-amps said:


> M.ST said:
> 
> 
> > Well all want a 70D (7D Mark II) and the big megapixel camera now and not in 2013.
> ...


Yep pretty much it's still 1/3 the cost of the 200 f2L and smaller and lighter


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## jukka (Nov 13, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Renzokuken said:
> 
> 
> > Hope technology = significant improvements in sensor architecture and design
> ...




Nikon, Zeiss, Leica, Canon , old Minolta, Pentax, Fuji , all have good lenses , I do not follow your argumentation, do you mean canon lenses are superior ?

Parempi dollarin kädessä kuin tjuga vuonna jalka


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## K-amps (Nov 13, 2012)

AmbientLight said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Interestingly thats what I am willing to pay for the 200 F2
> ...



Thanks Ambient... But It's not the reach that gets me excited... but the subject Isolation / DoF that the 200 F2 has also.

This would suffer with the APS-C right?




RLPhoto said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Interestingly thats what I am willing to pay for the 200 F2
> ...



Thats right Ramon, and if you are still skeptical... check my profile for list of lenses I don't have


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## Rodknee (Nov 13, 2012)

ScottyP said:


> How can there be another Rebel by March 2013????? The T4i just hit stores.
> 
> The 650d is available at less than 70% of it's release price in June and a similar price to the 600d at this time last year despite it's later release date so the price has dropped faster. It sounds as though they are still shipping plenty of units so that might indicate a new rebel release in the 'usual' February window. It is about time a new sensor emerged for APS-C especially given the release of the D5200 at a similar release price to the 650d at its release.


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## dolina (Nov 13, 2012)

EOS 7D Mark II - Probably in 2013
EOS 7D - 1 September 2009 (Firmware 2.0 August 6, 2012)

EOS 70D - Probably first half of 2013
EOS 60D - August 26, 2010
EOS 50D - 26 August 2008
EOS 40D - 20 August 2007

EOS 700D - Probably June 2013
EOS 650D - 8 June 2012
EOS 600D - 7 February 2011
EOS 550D - 8 February 2010
EOS 500D - 25 March 2009

EOS 1200D - Probably first half 2014
EOS 1100D - 7 February 2011
EOS 1000D - 10 June 2008


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Nov 13, 2012)

"And finally: the rumored high megapixel DSLR (at least 46MP) could be announced during Q3. Unfortunately no specs here, except that it will have 6fps, and a newly designed sensor with very good low ISO performance. No hints about the name, but it will not have the “D” in the name. It's said to be something “very new” and specifically aimed at studio photography. Prototypes already undergoing tests."

Wow so long as they don't leave out the 5D3/1DX AF because it is "just a studio/landscape camera" this sounds awesome.

If they get the low ISO to be more like Exmor and let it have 6fps and the 5D3/1DX AF, wow, the ultimate all around camera. Fantastic reach for wildlife and sports, good enough at 6fps for action for some (not for a main sports pro's primary dedicated body but whatever), amazing AF. D800 who?

I just pray it is in a 5D3-size body but I'm really fearing a brick .

It would be nice if they also let it shoot crop modes so you don't have to store 46MP for far off birds that only take up the middle 16MP or something, so far that has not been the Canon way, but I hope they would give in. A perfect 12MP mini-RAW tht it could deliver would not do it for that since you'd lose all reach.

But wow, totally new tech for great low ISO, 40MP or more AND 6fps and hopefully 5D3 AF, wow. Man this could be an awesome body! What an insane all-around camera!

Although the very new and specifically for studio make me a little worried that something about the body design might make it weird to use?? Maybe even some larger format ultra brick??


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## wickidwombat (Nov 13, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> "I just pray it is in a 5D3-size body but I'm really fearing a brick .



I hear ya buddy no need for bricks anymore


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2012)

If my 1D X is a brick, then I like bricks!


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## crasher8 (Nov 13, 2012)

The 1DX is no DynaTAC


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## well_dunno (Nov 13, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> "And finally: the rumored high megapixel DSLR (at least 46MP) could be announced during Q3. Unfortunately no specs here, except that it will have 6fps, and a newly designed sensor with very good low ISO performance. No hints about the name, but it will not have the “D” in the name. It's said to be something “very new” and specifically aimed at studio photography. Prototypes already undergoing tests."



6 fps on 46 MP - Would double digic 5 + be able to achieve that? Perhaps double digic 6 down the line...


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## c.d.embrey (Nov 13, 2012)

Jesse said:


> Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?



Small sensors are the future, FF is the past. Expect to see more Pros drop FF and get APS-C/DX and M4/3 in the future.

In 5-7 years (maybe a lot sooner) people will look at FF the same way they do MFD today. Sensor technology gets better every generation -- the next generation m4/3 sensor will be better than a present-day 5D3, count-on-it.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Small sensors are the future, FF is the past. Expect to see more Pros drop FF and get APS-C/DX and M4/3 in the future.
> 
> In 5-7 years (maybe a lot sooner) people will look at FF the same way they do MFD today. Sensor technology gets better every generation -- the next generation m4/3 sensor will be better than a present-day 5D3, count-on-it.



Will there be a set of new f/0.6 - f/0.9 prime lenses to accompany the next gen m4/3 sensors, or will the laws of physics be altered to give thin DoF with a 2x crop sensor?


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## wickidwombat (Nov 14, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Jesse said:
> 
> 
> > Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?
> ...



yeah apply the same technology jump to FF sensors and the equivalent tech FF will still leave the tiny weeny cute little baby sensors in their wake.
comparing a Bugatti Veyron to a 60's VW Beetle is not really a valid comparision even though its the same motor company that makes the cars
same applies to some future star trek sensor compared to todays sensors


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## RobertG. (Nov 14, 2012)

A proper 50mm lens would be great and a 40+ megapixel cam a great update for my 5dII.

But really needed is an update to their ancient TS-E 45mm. Currently in the 40-60mm range there is no perfectly usable tilt-shift lens with superior IQ available from any company. The Schneider and Hartblei lenses are overpriced and the super-rotator design outdated. The older Arsat 55mm lacks resolution and proper coating as well as all the other older MF tilt-shift lenses. So there is really a huge gap between the great wide angle tilt-shift lenses from Canon and the tele ones from Canon, Hartblei and Schneider. Maybe Samyang will make one...


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## killswitch (Nov 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> AmbientLight said:
> 
> 
> > Renzokuken said:
> ...



+1 on that analogy =D


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## maxxevv (Nov 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> 135 F/1.8L IS USM <----- I Really wants one.



135 f/1.4L IS USM

That would put it in relative aperture size and MSRP to the 200 f/2.0L IS USM .... ;D


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## that1guyy (Nov 14, 2012)

Excitedly waiting for the 70D. Hopefully it's very early 2013 and not till the end of March.

Also don't want the 70D and the 7Dmark ii to merge. If they merge, that means a higher pricepoint for those wanting to upgrade their 60D and the use CF cards, which I don't want (since I own SD cards).

Would want to see:
Faster AF
6fps burst
new sensor for improved low light and IQ
all-i codec for video mode with higher bit rate, actual 1080p (not the upscaling that current Canons do)
better dynamic range in video
headphone jack
less rolling shutter, aliasing, moire
and i know this isn't happening but they need to put 1080p at 60p. All their competitors have this now.


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## x-vision (Nov 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> In some ways, Canon is like Intel... Nikon like AMD... AMD once beat Intel to the 1Ghz mark, caught it napping, because Intel was both arrogant and lazy... but then it came back with a Bang and AMD is still playing catch up after a decade...



Err, you are forgetting that Nikon used to be the 800 pound gorilla in the industry, not Canon.
So, according to your analogy, Nikon is now coming back to raclaim their leading position. 



> Nikon is already feeling the pressure and competatively pricing it's products trying to get back market share...



Again, incorrect. 

Recently, Canon has been (grossly?) overpricing their products - in what looks like a misguided attempt to position themselves as the Apple of the camera industry (or something like that).

To see the results of this overpricing strategy, though, just look into the last quarterly results from Canon and Nikon.

Last quarter, Canon's DSLR sales were down compared to 2011. 
Canon also lowered their outlook for the year ... for a second time this year. 

In comparison, Nikon's DSLR sales were up compared to 2011. 
Nikon also revised their yearly projections ... upwards. 

FYI, Canon projects sales of 8.8 million DSLR units in 2012 vs 7.1 million for Nikon.
If the last quarter becomes a trend, it won't take too many quarters before Nikon passes Canon as the industry leader. 

So, expect Canon's overpricing strategy to be abandoned sometime next year - after they have had two-three more quarters like the last one.


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## Promature (Nov 14, 2012)

> 18-200mm is equivalent to 29-320mm on FF, and both Nikon and Canon offer 28-300mm full frame lenses. My 28-300L does very well as a 'one lens solution'.


Neuro, problem is that the 28-300 is $3k. The 18-200 and 270 can be had for $500-$600. Big difference for a dad wanting to take decent pictures on vacation. Also, I don't think I'd want to carry the L-series glass around my neck all day at Disney World. I think on technicallity Roger is incorrect, but on intent he is spot on.


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## Nishi Drew (Nov 14, 2012)

maxxevv said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > 135 F/1.8L IS USM <----- I Really wants one.
> ...



There exists a Vivitar 135 F/1.5 from times past, and creates interesting imagery, but it's huge and not very light weight, something that the 135L has that is nice is it's good size, weight and sharpness. If the bokeh is great, creamy and without much CA then that's better than simply going shallower IMO (it can "feel" shallower too). It would be nice to shoot faster for those definite low light shoots, but ISO performance is getting better and better, so what compromises do we mind or don't for going for a faster 135L? It'll be cool though


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## Ben Taylor (Nov 14, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Jesse said:
> 
> 
> > Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?
> ...



I'm pretty much lost for words after this statement...

Those who shoot full frame do so for a number of reasons. One of the biggest for me is the shallow DOF characteristics and closely following that is high ISO noise performance. 

As Neuro said, the laws of physics tell me your theory is fundamentaly flawed.


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## ddashti (Nov 14, 2012)

Many have been waiting a long time for 7D Mark II to come out.
Hopefully it'll actually happen in Q1 of 2013.


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## weekendshooter (Nov 14, 2012)

Promature said:


> > 18-200mm is equivalent to 29-320mm on FF, and both Nikon and Canon offer 28-300mm full frame lenses. My 28-300L does very well as a 'one lens solution'.
> 
> 
> Neuro, problem is that the 28-300 is $3k. The 18-200 and 270 can be had for $500-$600. Big difference for a dad wanting to take decent pictures on vacation. Also, I don't think I'd want to carry the L-series glass around my neck all day at Disney World. I think on technicallity Roger is incorrect, but on intent he is spot on.



Nikon's 28-300 costs around $1k, while its 18-200 is $850 (new prices), so the gap in price is closing. I predict that the performance gulf between these two lenses will also be nullified whenever the next 28-300 comes out, considering how much of both Canon and Nikon's attention is going to developing new full frame lenses. I wouldn't be surprised if Canon developed a similar non-L lens considering the popularity of Nikon's 28-300.

I think the real discrepancy between full frame and crop is the prohibitive size and price of full-frame standard zooms. A third party 17-50 IS can be had for ~$600, and Canon's superb 17-55/2.8 IS is around $1k. The cheapest full-frame standard zoom with comparable performance is Tamron's $1300 24-70 VC, and I'm hesitant to spend that much on a third-party lens that has been shown to have build quality issues (Roger's report) and IQ inconsistencies (the-digital-picture's sample shots). 

I'm considering the 24-120, but I've only been able to find mixed reviews; the consensus is that it's not as good as Canon's 24-105 while being more expensive. At $1300, it's the same price as Tamron's 24-70, which then makes me lust after Nikon's 24-70. Any such comparison makes me long for a reasonably priced standard zoom with fewer compromises than any currently available models. Ironically, I'd probably grab the upcoming 24-70/4 IS if I shot Canon considering the sharpness and light weight it promises. I had fun reading the chagrin on this forum the day it was announced while thinking that I'd love to have it here on the dark side ;D


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## EchoLocation (Nov 14, 2012)

weekendshooter said:


> Promature said:
> 
> 
> > > 18-200mm is equivalent to 29-320mm on FF, and both Nikon and Canon offer 28-300mm full frame lenses. My 28-300L does very well as a 'one lens solution'.
> ...


if you shoot Nikon, and you're lusting after the 24-70 F4 IS, and the $1500 price isn't too much of an issue, why don't you just buy a Nikon 24-70 for 1500ish used? the Nikon 24-70 2.8 is an amazing lens, and I would never trade mine for an F4 of anything, no matter how sharp it claims to be or how much IS it has.


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## c.d.embrey (Nov 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Will there be a set of new f/0.6 - f/0.9 prime lenses to accompany the next gen m4/3 sensors, or will the laws of physics be altered to give thin DoF with a 2x crop sensor?



Not everyone wants/needs paper-thin DOF. Most of my advertising still work is shot at f/5.6 to f/16. Most of my motion work at f/2.8 to f/5.6, f/3.5 is about normal.

Expect to see a paper-thin DOF art filter soon.


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## c.d.embrey (Nov 14, 2012)

Ben Taylor said:


> I'm pretty much lost for words after this statement...
> 
> Those who shoot full frame do so for a number of reasons. One of the biggest for me is the shallow DOF characteristics and closely following that is high ISO noise performance.
> 
> As Neuro said, the laws of physics tell me your theory is fundamentaly flawed.



Time doesn't stand still. Moore's law is still working, after all these years. Compare the sensor of the 1Ds to the sensor of the 4Ti ... which is better ??? The 1Ds only has an ISO range of 100 to 1250, the 4Ti has an ISO range from 100 to 12800. Technology marches on. How good do you think the APS_C/DX and M4/3 sensors will be in five years ???

There are Pro winning awards and getting published in major newspapers and magazine using camera phones. There are amatuers still using wet-plate cameras. Big world out there.

In the near-future I think that many PJs and Editorial and Advertising photographers will be using Smart-Phones to shoot much of their work -- shallow DOF?, there will be an App for that  Stick-around, the future is guaranteed to be different from the past.


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## Promature (Nov 14, 2012)

> Nikon's 28-300 costs around $1k, while its 18-200 is $850 (new prices), so the gap in price is closing. I predict that the performance gulf between these two lenses will also be nullified whenever the next 28-300 comes out, considering how much of both Canon and Nikon's attention is going to developing new full frame lenses. I wouldn't be surprised if Canon developed a similar non-L lens considering the popularity of Nikon's 28-300.



Tamron 18-270 currently $550. 
http://www.adorama.com/TM18270PEOS.html


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## weekendshooter (Nov 14, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> if you shoot Nikon, and you're lusting after the 24-70 F4 IS, and the $1500 price isn't too much of an issue, why don't you just buy a Nikon 24-70 for 1500ish used? the Nikon 24-70 2.8 is an amazing lens, and I would never trade mine for an F4 of anything, no matter how sharp it claims to be or how much IS it has.



Ideally I would prefer something a bit smaller as my main lens; I'm used to only having primes and the 24-70 is a behemoth. I agree that it's a phenomenal lens and I will most likely end up getting it used, but the size is going to take some getting used to. I would be willing to sacrifice f/2.8 if the lens added IS and had no optical compromises, as the 24-70/4 IS seems to promise.


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## sanj (Nov 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> If my 1D X is a brick, then I like bricks!



Amen...!


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## sanj (Nov 14, 2012)

Jesse said:


> Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?



I do! I do not own one yet (just sold my 7D) but am really interested in seeing what the next APS-C camera is like... If 5D3 like focus and stop and a half better noise, I am SOLD.


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## sanj (Nov 14, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Jesse said:
> 
> 
> > Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?
> ...



Nope. Naaaa. Says who?


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## Marsu42 (Nov 14, 2012)

sanj said:


> Small sensors are the future, FF is the past. Expect to see more Pros drop FF and get APS-C/DX and M4/3 in the future.



On thing won't be in the past: ef lenses are designed for ff sensors, you cannot "update" that fact. So for more mp an expensive ff lens will still have an edge on ff over aps-c, simply you don't just use the center.


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## M.ST (Nov 14, 2012)

Small sensor cameras are only the future for hobby photographers and as a additional camera for pros which don´t want to use TC´s.

Compare the price of a APS-C camera body with the EF 70-300 IS (L) with the price of a ff camera with an EF 500 mm lens and you know why hobby photographers mostly prefer the APS-C solution if they need a long focal lenght lenses. 

In the last few month a lot of pros add a medium format camera to the gear.

Even Art (Art Wolfe) now use a Phase One for Landscapes and the 1D X for wildlife shots.

RE to the big megapixel talk:
I can confirm that a Canon camera with over 40 megapixels is in the field test. But I can´t say if this product hit the market. There a a few different versionen in the field.


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## GMCPhotographics (Nov 14, 2012)

M.ST said:


> Small sensor cameras are only the future for hobby photographers and as a additional camera for pros which don´t want to use TC´s.
> 
> In the last few month a lot of pros add a medium format camera to the gear.
> 
> ...



I know plenty of pro shooters and some regularly use a 7D. As to medium format, I know of only one pro shooter who uses Digital Medium format. In fact all the pro landscapers I know are currently using either 5DII/III's or a 1DX due to their superior live view functionality. I've met a few amatuers using D800's who don't seem to have any tangible requirement for the 36mp other than bragging rights. There are very few photographers who need to enlarge to a massive size.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2012)

Promature said:


> > 18-200mm is equivalent to 29-320mm on FF, and both Nikon and Canon offer 28-300mm full frame lenses. My 28-300L does very well as a 'one lens solution'.
> 
> 
> Neuro, problem is that the 28-300 is $3k. The 18-200 and 270 can be had for $500-$600. Big difference for a dad wanting to take decent pictures on vacation. Also, I don't think I'd want to carry the L-series glass around my neck all day at Disney World. I think on technicallity Roger is incorrect, but on intent he is spot on.



While I personally don't mind carrying the 28-300L around for a day at an amusement park (and have done so, in fact), that's a Canon-centric viewpoint (not misplaced _here_, just saying) and Roger doesn't seem to have that mindset. 

While the IQ is not as good as the Canon L-series lens, Nikon's 28-300mm FX-format lens is cheaper than both Canon's and Nikon's 17-55mm f/2.8 IS/VC offerings, and it's about the same weight and (retracted) size as those 17-55/2.8 lenses. True, it's about $400 more than the APS-C superzooms, but a FF camera is more costly, so that's not unreasonable at all, IMO, and doesn't make the 'one lens solution' club very exclusive for (Nikon) FF shooters.


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## K-amps (Nov 14, 2012)

x-vision said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > In some ways, Canon is like Intel... Nikon like AMD... AMD once beat Intel to the 1Ghz mark, caught it napping, because Intel was both arrogant and lazy... but then it came back with a Bang and AMD is still playing catch up after a decade...
> ...



You are Cherry Picking data:

Nikon's price slashing will get them sales, but they will lose profitability.... which is what shareholders are looking for. 

On the Canon side, I am not defending their high pricing (heck I have been one of the most vocal critic.. I own a 5d3 see)... But I do feel Canon needs; and perhaps had their rear end's kicked and I really hope they can get back to the 2005 ways... I think they will because of lower sales and stale sensor tech will catch up.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Nov 14, 2012)

well_dunno said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > "And finally: the rumored high megapixel DSLR (at least 46MP) could be announced during Q3. Unfortunately no specs here, except that it will have 6fps, and a newly designed sensor with very good low ISO performance. No hints about the name, but it will not have the “D” in the name. It's said to be something “very new” and specifically aimed at studio photography. Prototypes already undergoing tests."
> ...



probably not unless they do some serious rounding up from low 5 point somethings hah


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## Don Haines (Nov 15, 2012)

sanj said:


> Talking about lens caps was getting bit much.



But I'm not done talking about lens caps..... I want canon to come out with a 46 megapixel lenscap......


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## Don Haines (Nov 15, 2012)

Jesse said:


> Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?



That 1.6 times improvement in reach sure helps when you are taking pictures of wildlife....


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## Don Haines (Nov 15, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Nikon uses their own sensors as well as Sony sensors. however, Glass is far more important than bodies, and the photographer is far more important than either.
> I would not worry about a tiny difference in sensors.



I agree, but would have started with "camera in hand beats the camera left at home" I have some nice shots taken with an Iphone.... my real camera would have done a better job, but was nowhere near me.


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## Don Haines (Nov 15, 2012)

Promature said:


> > 18-200mm is equivalent to 29-320mm on FF, and both Nikon and Canon offer 28-300mm full frame lenses. My 28-300L does very well as a 'one lens solution'.
> 
> 
> Neuro, problem is that the 28-300 is $3k. The 18-200 and 270 can be had for $500-$600. Big difference for a dad wanting to take decent pictures on vacation. Also, I don't think I'd want to carry the L-series glass around my neck all day at Disney World. I think on technicallity Roger is incorrect, but on intent he is spot on.


Have used a 28-300 on a 5DII. Have used an 18-200 on a 60D. Have used the 28-300 on a 60D. 
The 28-300 is a nice lens on both bodies.... the 18-200 is... well... lets just say if it broke I would not purchase another. It has the worst lens creep that I have ever seen in a lens and it is the least sharp of any canon or sigma lens that I have ever used. Yes, it is a 1 lens solution, but it is not a good 1 lens solution.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 15, 2012)

Don Haines said:


> the 18-200 is... well... lets just say if it broke I would not purchase another. It has the worst lens creep that I have ever seen in a lens



Ever used the 70-300 DO lens? Tracked a bird that flew overhead, the barrel retracted so hard I swear the eyecup almost gave me a black eye...


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## Marsu42 (Nov 15, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Ever used the 70-300 DO lens? Tracked a bird that flew overhead, the barrel retracted so hard I swear the eyecup almost gave me a black eye...



Early adopters of new tech like DO have to endure some hardship ... if you wouldn't be such a Canon fanboy, you probably would/could/should have sued Canon for a couple of Million $$$ :->


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## rpt (Nov 15, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Ever used the 70-300 DO lens? Tracked a bird that flew overhead, the barrel retracted so hard I swear the eyecup almost gave me a black eye...
> ...


That is what I like about the 100-400; you can lock it in place...
Hmmmmm... Gives me an idea! Why don't I track a bird overhead with the locking ring loose. Then I can sue them saying it was not mentioned on the barrel that I should lock it before tracking a bird overhead...
Neuro, Marsu, I'll give both of you 3% of the profits of this scam venture for being the inspiration.


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## Don Haines (Nov 15, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > the 18-200 is... well... lets just say if it broke I would not purchase another. It has the worst lens creep that I have ever seen in a lens
> ...



Yeah, but it only came down from 3 times zoom..... I had the same thing happen with the 18-200, it came down from 10 time zoom and I'm sure that had to hurt more


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## Promature (Nov 16, 2012)

> While I personally don't mind carrying the 28-300L around for a day at an amusement park (and have done so, in fact), that's a Canon-centric viewpoint (not misplaced _here_, just saying) and Roger doesn't seem to have that mindset.
> 
> While the IQ is not as good as the Canon L-series lens, Nikon's 28-300mm FX-format lens is cheaper than both Canon's and Nikon's 17-55mm f/2.8 IS/VC offerings, and it's about the same weight and (retracted) size as those 17-55/2.8 lenses. True, it's about $400 more than the APS-C superzooms, but a FF camera is more costly, so that's not unreasonable at all, IMO, and doesn't make the 'one lens solution' club very exclusive for (Nikon) FF shooters.



Admittedly I don't know much about Nikon, so good to know someone out there has a reasonably priced superzoon for FF. Since you mention that you actually carried the 28-300L at an amusement park all day, what are your impressions of the lens (from a father's viewpoint)? I'm curious because I'd use it for pretty much the same thing. I'm guess it doesn't do so well indoors, but that's not what it's made for.


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## RVB (Nov 16, 2012)

Don Haines said:


> Jesse said:
> 
> 
> > Do people actually care about APS-C cameras anymore?
> ...



APS-C sensors only give a f.o.v of a longer lens but actual reach is no different. the focal length doesn't change..


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2012)

Promature said:


> Admittedly I don't know much about Nikon, so good to know someone out there has a reasonably priced superzoon for FF. Since you mention that you actually carried the 28-300L at an amusement park all day, what are your impressions of the lens (from a father's viewpoint)? I'm curious because I'd use it for pretty much the same thing. I'm guess it doesn't do so well indoors, but that's not what it's made for.



Quite useable, IMO. Definitely need a Blackrapid strap or equivalent to carry it, though. Across the range, the IQ is basically equivalent to the 24-105L - not stellar, but very good and fit for purpose. 

Depending on the body, it can do ok indoors, but really only on the wide end and you have to push up the ISO. The first shot below, from a trip at the beginning of this past summer, is with the 28-300L on the 5DII (35mm, 1/80 s, f/3.5, ISO 6400). The second, taken on another trip later this past summer, is with the 35L on the 1D X (1/160 s, f/2.5, ISO 6400). 

Actually, I didn't plan on this being a formal comparison, but given that it was the same location, same focal length, same approximate framing, and same subjects (although from a different camera angle and separated by about 3 months in time), it actually makes a pretty good real-world comparison between the two setups (5DII+28-300L vs. 1D X+35L). The composite below are 100% crops from the two images (1D X+35L on the right). I think there's a clear winner...


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## Promature (Nov 16, 2012)

Wow, the quality of the 1Dx, and the IQ of a prime, really improves the image. Both great compositions, although I personally like the first one the best, but even before the 100% crop you can tell the detail just isn't there with the high ISO on the 5DII.


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## jukka (Nov 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Promature said:
> 
> 
> > Admittedly I don't know much about Nikon, so good to know someone out there has a reasonably priced superzoon for FF. Since you mention that you actually carried the 28-300L at an amusement park all day, what are your impressions of the lens (from a father's viewpoint)? I'm curious because I'd use it for pretty much the same thing. I'm guess it doesn't do so well indoors, but that's not what it's made for.
> ...



what was the purpose to show this two different photo sessions?


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## jukka (Nov 17, 2012)

Promature said:


> Wow, the quality of the 1Dx, and the IQ of a prime, really improves the image. Both great compositions, although I personally like the first one the best, but even before the 100% crop you can tell the detail just isn't there with the high ISO on the 5DII.



wow
how can you draw such conclusions? two different photo sessions , different high lights reproduction,noise reduction, smearing , angels etc
I'm impressed

nähdä jotain on vaikeaa, hän sanoi istuu laukku


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## AdamJ (Nov 17, 2012)

Now you're just being obtuse, Mikael.


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