# Need Lens Advice for Shooting Indoor Swimming and Diving - 50m pool



## tiger82 (Feb 11, 2015)

I'll be shooting a collegiate conference swimming championship indoors. I have a 1D Mark IV with a 70-200 and a 7D Mark II with a 24-70 2.8. If necessary I can swap the lenses. Will that be sufficient? What length lenses do you use?

I don't normally shoot swimming but this gig requires thorough coverage so I need expertise from those who have experience


----------



## candyman (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't normally shoot swimming either but did occasionally indoors when my children were practicing. Now this was a swimmingpool that has the size of the competition pool. I used the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II with the 7D & 5D MKIII. It is actually short to cover the full pool length unless you are allowed to move yourself around the pool. The aperture is the least you need because of speed of your subjects and - probably - the artifical light that is different from outdoors light. (btw I also had to deal with changing light because of few windows that allowed sun to shine through) 
Flexibility of zoom is good. If they allow you move - than ok. Otherwise put yourself in a good position.
Maybe a 400 f/2.8 can do better, but it is big and heavy. 
I wouldn't use the extender on the 70-200 because the loss of a stop.

edit: something wrong with the html-tags/fonts - first attempt of posting resulted in rediculous small font.


----------



## studeb (Feb 20, 2015)

Hi,

Been both in pool and on deck. Are you on deck and mobile? Or boxed at one end? In bleachers?
What are you looking for? Most of the photo action is at the start blocks and finish.
Prob the 70-200 would be best, at 200mm you can get the lane 4 full frame from 10-15 feet off the edge past the flags.
Shooting from the far end you will need more to get a single lane prob 400mm, but with 200 you should be getting decent down the lane shots.
For multiple lane shots, and shots across the pool the 24-70 would work.
You will need the 2.8 or better for this.

Dont forget the podium too!

Will it be televised? Usually there will be stronger lighting if so.


----------



## stephan00 (Feb 21, 2015)

I've done some photography of swimming (see here http://www.photo-chameleon.com/portfolio/sport/speedo_2014/speedo_2014.shtml for last year), albeit outside. What I've been using here is the following:

*) 1D IV + 300 2.8 IS II (most of the time with 1.4x or 2x) for shots across the pool 
*) 5D III + 70-200 2.8 IS II for closer subjects

As studeb mentioned, for shots with more swimmers in them I had to use the 24-70 on the 5DIII. Also for the photos from the award ceremony, of course. Don't forget the flash for those photos, because you will be wanting to shoot around f8!

I did just one photo-shoot on an indoor-pool and almost all photos there were taken at 2.8 or 4 with the 1DIV.

You might try renting a 300 or give it a shot with the 70-200, but be prepared to do some cropping. Also, with the water splashing in every possible direction, having the main subjects (usually the swimmer's face) as large as possible will definitely help with the focussing. One hint: before pressing the shutter, follow your subject at least for a second with half-pressed shutter (or using the BBF-method). This will dramatically increase your keeper-rate - at least it did for me 

I used to have a 7D (and a 550D before that), and combining them with the 100-400 or the 70-200 was fine outdoors in good lighting. But haven't looked back since moving on to 5 and 1.

Are you allowed to go there before the event in order to do some test photos?


----------



## sagittariansrock (Feb 21, 2015)

70-200+1.4x on your better camera would be my suggestion, given the reach needed in a championship pool.


----------



## SwimDad (Feb 21, 2015)

I am not a pro, but I've been doing this for my daughters for ~10 years, mostly for end-of-season slide shows.

First, unless this is a televised meet, the lighting will be a challenge. The HS and college pools typically don't put lights over the pool (maintenance hassle?), so the lighting will be uneven. I recommend you shoot raw (so you can adjust after), at as high an ISO as you can stand (I use 2000-6400), and use Manual control so you don't have the camera doing exposure adjustments for you. 

You will be escorted out of the pool if you use flash on the starts (except for relays), since it causes swimmers to false start. If you use a flash, get an external battery pack so it recycles quickly. Use is more for fill, leaving the ISO fairly high - otherwise, you'll get that wonderful, stark flash shadow effect. If you decide to use the camera in an auto-exposure mode, make sure you're subject is the only thing in your field of view, or you will not get the flash effect you want.

Why do I list all this stuff about lighting? Because it drives you to use a wide aperture lens so you can gather as much light and freeze the action. I rarely shoot with aperture above F4, but YMMV. I have a variety of lenses, but at a recent HS League Championship, I used a combination of a Sigma 18-35 F1.8 and a Canon 70-200 F2.8 L II on my 70D ( I have also used a 40D and a 300D...). I have also used my Canon 300 F4 L, but only if I am not on deck and shooting from the stands. I have a good monopod for when I roam the deck - don't take a tripod unless you are in the stands - there's too much traffic w/ swimmers, refs, volunteers, and coaches.

As to composition, which drives lens choice, I find that there are several shots that work well:
- Before the race - serious concentration, game face, stretching, getting goggles adjusted - tightly cropped works well here.
- Starts, from the side. If you can catch a swimmer as they start, mid flight, they for a powerful but graceful arc as the go in. Movies are OK, but a burst of 4-8 shots works well for a print. If your swimmer is in the 1st or last lane, then this works well, if you are on deck or elevated in the stands. If you're on deck and the swimmer is in the middle, it really doesn't matter how long a lens you have, you'll have other swimmers blocking your viewing angle very quickly. Side looking starts works well for both on-the-blocks and in-the-water (Backstroke). Starts from end-on are rather boring.
- During the length - side shots work best for Freestyle and Backstroke, although you're best to time your shot so you can see the swimmer's face - which drives up the necessity of having enough reach and longer lens. Too long a lens gives too tight a crop, which since the swimmers' are moving, rolling, even wiggling, makes it harder to get a keeper. On Fly and Breaststroke, shots from the side are duds if you don't get the swimmer cresting. On all strokes from the side, you need to be pretty square with your target. Otherwise, the slant angle makes the shot boring. From the stands, this works better since you have a better angle to isolate your target.
- End on - really only for Fly (loosely cropped to catch the wing-span of their arms) and Breaststroke (tightly cropped to show how they scrunch their shoulders and move their hands underwater). Can be used if the swimmer has just turned on Backstroke, while they're surfacing, but useless if they're across the pool. Boring for Free. Also, very few stands are at the end of a 50m pool. 
- During turns - works for Fly and Breaststroke, but nobody wants a picture of their butt flipping over in Free or Back. Try to time it when the open turn happens, so you can see the swimmer's face A burst works well, here, too.
- Relay starts - 2nd, 3rd, and 4th swimmer - This works well if you can get the previous swimmer and the starting swimmer in the frame, typically from the side.
- After the race - Good opportunity to get a tightly cropped shot of the swimmer looking at the timing board or shaking hands with a competitor.

I also find that, to stop the motion (especially hands), you need to be in the 1/200 or faster range. Anything slower is blurry. Shutter speeds faster than that do a great job of stopping the water spray. However a fast AF camera & lens combo can switch focus to that peripheral motion, so I'd suggest using a single, central AF point and making sure you've got it on your target.

Bottom line - is to find out where you're going to be, consider the composition, viewing angles, distances, and lighting. I've not used a Big White ( 300+ F2.8 ), but unless you're going for a tightly cropped head shot, I don't think they're worth the size, weight, cost for what they'll produce. I got some great shots with the Sigma 18-35 (on turns), Canon 100 F2.8 L II and Canon 135 F2 L from the deck - 70mm is too long for a crop body. And the 70-200 F2.8 L II worked great from the 3 meets that had elevated stands. 

I didn't see what body you have - if it's a FF, you may be able to go with higher ISO, but you'll also more likely need a Big White.

It takes practice. Over the course of HS swim season which just concluded, I took ~6000 shots in 15 meets, trying to get a few good ones of each of the ~50 girls on the team. I got about 10% of what I'd call keepers, with a few of all but 2 girls. 

HTH


----------



## SwimDad (Feb 21, 2015)

Oh, I forgot about diving. Totally different beast than swimming. Still have the lighting challenges, but now, you need wider angle to show the whole body. I used my Canon 70D, Sigma 18-35 F1.8, and monopod from the pool deck and took movies. Even 18mm was too long if the diving board was close. 70mm on a FF might work, but you'd be better off with a 24-70mm. And YMMV if you're in the stands.

I take movies from the side, but stills work for end-on, if you can catch the diver facing you or going into the water. If you're end-on, then you do probably need a longer lens to put more pixels on your target.

If you go for stills, make sure the shutter speed is high enough - 1/200th is about minimum.


----------



## SwimDad (Feb 21, 2015)

One few last comments.

Get a program and mark it up. Your swimmers will be sprinkled through many events / heats / lanes, and you may need to / want to take advantage of different angles, so you may move between shots. If you're in the stands, this isn't a problem, since the difference in lanes is small. If you're on the deck, this is huge. But swim meets don't stop for anything, and there's usually only a 10-20s between one heat finishing and the next starting (fly-over-starts!). Also, take a picture of the timing scoreboard if someone has a great swim. Some action pictures followed by the time makes a good story.

For swimming championships, there's almost always prelims and finals sessions. You absolutely need to go to prelims, since there's a high probability that your swimmers may not make it back to the finals (typically top 8) or consolation (another 8) heats.

Diving may or may not happen concurrently with the swimming. Some meets run separate diving sessions for the entire championship, some run concurrent preliminaries, and some have the final dive rounds in the middle of the swimming finals. 

And you said you're in a 50m pool, but unless this is Div I, most winter swimming is 25yd events. That difference can change the viewing angle (very few 50m pools have 10 lanes, while many 50m pools set up for 25 yards have 10 lanes and lots of end space between lane 1 and lane 10).

Try to get some non-action pictures, too. A swim meet, even for a competitior, can be 1 minute of action followed by 1 hour of waiting. Warmup, warm down, sitting together resting / munching snacks, cheering, etc. all helps write the story of the event.


----------



## JoeKerslake (Feb 21, 2015)

As a swimmer myself, it's amazing how much more of the action focusses around the poolside instead of in the pool itself. Catch the crowd, the coaches, and the swimmer preparing.


----------



## wsmith96 (Feb 21, 2015)

I've not shot a collegiate dive/swim meet, but my daughter is a novice diver. I don't have experience shooting swimming, but with diving my go to lenses are the 85 1.8 and the 70-200 F2.8 Mk II. My cameras struggle with lower light and I've found that the natatoriums I've been to have poor lighting. I think you will be fine with what you have, but you may want to consider renting the 200 F2 so you can keep your shutter speed up.

Couple of pics - first is a 5D with the 70-200 @ 200mm and the second is a T1i with the 85mm @ 1.8.


----------



## Hjalmarg1 (Feb 22, 2015)

tiger82 said:


> I'll be shooting a collegiate conference swimming championship indoors. I have a 1D Mark IV with a 70-200 and a 7D Mark II with a 24-70 2.8. If necessary I can swap the lenses. Will that be sufficient? What length lenses do you use?
> 
> I don't normally shoot swimming but this gig requires thorough coverage so I need expertise from those who have experience


You'll need an extra reach for the close ups. the 1.6 crop factor on the 7D2 will help so, better to use the 70-200mm lens on the 7D2 and the 24-70mm lens on the 1D4 for the wide angle shots. However, I would rent a fast prime telephoto like the 400mm f/2L IS II for the close ups, unless you will be allowed to stand close to the pool.


----------



## TexPhoto (Feb 22, 2015)

Before the event, there will be practice for the athletes. Nothing beats *you* going and getting some practice. 

My philosophy is I'll take noise over motion blur (of my subject) any day. At events like this I like to shift to manual (puts hair on your chest), set my shutter to 1/1000, my aperture to the biggest I've got, and then set my ISO to A. Swagger like you are a manual shooter, enjoy the benefits of your camera meter, don't sweat the ISO.

I think you could use a longer lens. Its a great time to buy or rent or borrow a 300 or 400mm f2.8.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Feb 22, 2015)

wsmith96 said:


> Couple of pics - first is a 5D with the 70-200 @ 200mm and the second is a T1i with the 85mm @ 1.8.



Really like the second shot WRT timing and composition. Nicely done!


----------



## stephan00 (Feb 22, 2015)

TexPhoto said:


> Before the event, there will be practice for the athletes. Nothing beats *you* going and getting some practice.



I second that. You'll not only be able to practice, but on top of that you can get some nice shots of relaxed athletes. Remember that while photos of somebody in action at the breaststroke all sort of look alike, when you get the swimmers before the start or afterwards when they see their time on the board (if you're allowed to move freely, try to stay underneath the board for a few heats and the swimmers will look almost directly at you) or when they talk to their coaches, these are the photos with emotions and where the athletes are recognizable.

You might want to throw in a couple of photos of the trainers cheering the athletes or of some enthusiastic people in the crwod.

In the end, it's all about emotions 

P.S.: Yes, the framing is too tight, but I was too close and no time to reach for the other cam


----------



## jcarapet (Feb 22, 2015)

SwimDad said:


> I am not a pro, but I've been doing this for my daughters for ~10 years, mostly for end-of-season slide shows.
> 
> First, unless this is a televised meet, the lighting will be a challenge. The HS and college pools typically don't put lights over the pool (maintenance hassle?), so the lighting will be uneven. I recommend you shoot raw (so you can adjust after), at as high an ISO as you can stand (I use 2000-6400), and use Manual control so you don't have the camera doing exposure adjustments for you.
> 
> ...



Love it, actual solid advice for those of us who who have no idea how to frame or shoot swimming. Internet gold for you sir.


----------

