# Industry News: Leica officially announces the Leica M11



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 13, 2022)

> *Wetzlar, January 13th 2022.* The new Leica M11 combines the experience of traditional rangefinder photography with contemporary camera technology, delivering maximum flexibility to every photographer. Featuring an exclusive triple resolution sensor, expanded ISO range, dual memory options, extended battery life and a streamlined and intuitive menu system; the Leica M11 represents a new benchmark in digital photography as the most flexible M-System camera in Leica’s history.
> 
> At the heart of the M11 is a full-frame BSI CMOS sensor with Triple Resolution Technology. Raw image files in DNG and JPEG format can be recorded at 60, 36 or 18 megapixels, always using the full sensor area. The 60-megapixel option delivers unprecedented image quality and detail resolution, utilizing the full optical potential of Leica’s...



Continue reading...


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## scyrene (Jan 13, 2022)

Let's reopen a can of worms: can a file be 'raw' if it's not the full resolution of the sensor? I guess technically if you were skipping pixels or lines, but I imagine they're actually downscaling? In which case it's not really raw, right?


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## slclick (Jan 13, 2022)

Very nice (as always)


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## jam05 (Jan 13, 2022)

scyrene said:


> Let's reopen a can of worms: can a file be 'raw' if it's not the full resolution of the sensor? I guess technically if you were skipping pixels or lines, but I imagine they're actually downscaling? In which case it's not really raw, right?


RAW by pure definition has nothing to do with the amount of the sensor is being used. This is not the only image application that has multiple resolutions. Comsumer camera manufacturers make more money selling and marketing single resulution cameras. And many cameras don't even use the full capabilities of the sensor yet still. Nothing groundbreaking here. At least in the technology area.


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## jam05 (Jan 13, 2022)

scyrene said:


> Let's reopen a can of worms: can a file be 'raw' if it's not the full resolution of the sensor? I guess technically if you were skipping pixels or lines, but I imagine they're actually downscaling? In which case it's not really raw, right?


RAW by pure definition has nothing to do with the amount of the sensor is being used. This is not the first nor only image application that has multiple resolutions. Comsumer camera manufacturers make more money selling and marketing single resulution cameras. And many cameras don't even use the full capabilities of the sensor yet still. Nothing groundbreaking here.


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## jam05 (Jan 13, 2022)

Active Pixel and multiresolution sensors have been in existence since 2005. Nothing ground breaking or NEW. Simply a niche option and in many cases not cost effective from a marketing standpoint for most camera manufacturers. Why sell one camera with multiresolutions when one can sell many more at single resolution only? Presently Leica is a very niche camera brand.


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## Del Paso (Jan 13, 2022)

My God, I'm almost dry from drooling...


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## another_mikey (Jan 13, 2022)

And the insanely high price is...?


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## slclick (Jan 13, 2022)

another_mikey said:


> And the insanely high price is...?


I was waiting for this and selling kidney jokes of course. I can't see myself ever having one but I have a couple associates with M10's and Monochroms and they are retired persons with no kids college tuition to pay off. One can dream. Gorgeous camera, dialed in ergonomics and simplicity, insane specs...can't wait to see images from these. Oh, it's $8995 USD


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## ethanz (Jan 13, 2022)

slclick said:


> I was waiting for this and selling kidney jokes of course. I can't see myself ever having one but I have a couple associates with M10's and Monochroms and they are retired persons with no kids college tuition to pay off. One can dream. Gorgeous camera, dialed in ergonomics and simplicity, insane specs...can't wait to see images from these. Oh, it's $8995 USD


The R1 will be a bargain


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## BurningPlatform (Jan 13, 2022)

scyrene said:


> Let's reopen a can of worms: can a file be 'raw' if it's not the full resolution of the sensor? I guess technically if you were skipping pixels or lines, but I imagine they're actually downscaling? In which case it's not really raw, right?


I sort of agree, raw data should mean just that, data directly from each pixel on the sensor. They say (at least on dpr) that the sensor is not quad Bayer or anything like that, and that the smaller formats are not line skipped. I don't know enough of the DNG file format to be able to deduce how they are going to store the data. Feels a bit stupid to generate mock Bayer data from oversampled pixel data, as they probably would have to de-mosaic it first anyway. But if it is the only way to store all the required data for maximum image quality, in a standard fashion, then be it.


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## scyrene (Jan 13, 2022)

jam05 said:


> RAW by pure definition has nothing to do with the amount of the sensor is being used. This is not the first nor only image application that has multiple resolutions. Comsumer camera manufacturers make more money selling and marketing single resulution cameras. And many cameras don't even use the full capabilities of the sensor yet still. Nothing groundbreaking here.


If you took a readout of a section of the sensor (ie a crop), that would be more raw than if you took the whole output and downsized it though, right? Because in the latter case none of the output pixels equates to a 'real' pixel on the sensor, rather an average of more than one?

(I know this is nothing new but I'm feeling mischievous).


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## cayenne (Jan 13, 2022)

slclick said:


> I was waiting for this and selling kidney jokes of course. I can't see myself ever having one but I have a couple associates with M10's and Monochroms and they are retired persons with no kids college tuition to pay off. One can dream. Gorgeous camera, dialed in ergonomics and simplicity, insane specs...can't wait to see images from these. Oh, it's $8995 USD


If you shop around a bit, you can get one less that MSRP....I got my M10M less than MSRP fro PopFlash out in California.  They were really nice to work with.

While there are some interesting things on the M11 vs the M10...there are some puzzling things.

The first that caught my eye...was that the black model, the one that is generally more desired, is not made of brass, but instead is aluminum.
They are actually saying "Yay...it is lighter".
I don't get that, one of the things that is desirable about the M cameras is that they have a definite "heft" to them, they feel like quality in a small package. And for previous models, the ones with black paint, having that brass underneath is desirable as the camera ages and the paint on the edges of things begins to wear off and you see the golden brass show through...."brassing" as they call it.

I like the solid feel of my M10M in my hand...I dunno if I'd be as happy if felt lighter and cheaper in Al.

The change of the bottom is interesting and if you don't ever have a QR plate or L bracket on your camera, it will be quite a bit faster to change batteries.

I use a RRS L-Bracket on mine, it actually replaces the old bottom plate....I don't see any L-Brackets for the M11 avoiding having you have to remove it each time you want to change a battery or SD card.

The larger sensor seems to be interesting, but....with this camera not having IBIS...I'm wondering if it will be difficult to shoot at slower speeds with such a large sensor?

Well, I have my M10M...I bought it for the special qualities you get with a true monochrome camera, so I'm likely done with buying Leica cameras. I supposed if I came up with a smoking deal on say Leica Q2, I might spring for one of those to have as a small, easy to carry color camera to go along with my B&W camera....

I have that, my GFX100, and my old standby 5D3 Canon. I"m saving on the sidelines...trying to decide between a R5...or seeing what the R1 will look like....

Its a fun time to have camera GAS that's for sure.....so many new toys...er......tools to choose from!!


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## entoman (Jan 13, 2022)

I'd really like to own one of these, and to be a good enough photographer to really due justice to such a fine camera.


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## scottburgess (Jan 13, 2022)

Congratulations to Leica's video team for creating the ultimate cure for insomnia.

To my sensibility, the unshaven old host reading note cards is about all you need to see: this is your grandfather's camera. A camera reborn of its own corpse like Colin Robinson, something to laugh at before changing the channel. If you want a landscape 35mm camera exclusively, and money is no matter but status totems are, perhaps this is for you as I have no doubt it will capture wonderful images and even more wonderful bragging opportunities. Many of us moved past this long ago.

If Leica gifted me a kit, I'd sell it, buy an R3, and use the difference to cover the taxes.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 13, 2022)

For the price of the M11 body, I can buy an R5 body and the F/4 trinity and have $700 left over.


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## slclick (Jan 13, 2022)

(heading to the Haberdasher for my ascot as we speak...*that* I can afford) 

fwiw, as Canon and competitors cameras formerly never came close to the cost of Leicas, that chasm is rapidly shrinking. 

I also have found that generally speaking, those without hands on experience with Leicas, especially the newest M series enjoy a good razzing of the brand and it's stereotypical buyers and those with time spent with one in hand truly appreciate the camera and like Cayenne, can verbalize the shooting experience and imho, make the comedic genius non users come across as sophomoric. My late Father in Law had one and even with his middling amount of technique and experience, his images were stellar. Just imagine what I could have created with a proper bequeathing. Lol.


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## Jethro (Jan 14, 2022)

slclick said:


> I also have found that generally speaking ... those with time spent with one in hand truly appreciate the camera and like Cayenne, can verbalize the shooting experience


I'm interested in understanding that shooting experience. I look at the images, and see a much smaller camera than what I'm used to (I have quite large hands), no front grip, no tilty-flippy screen (which I use all the time), and seemingly a lack of physical controls. And (again I presume) not the type of AF I'm used to. Is there a particular combination of sensor / lenses that provides such a good experience and results? I get that it looks great, and there is always a psychological sense of enjoying more using something which is well crafted and beautiful.

I recall the mono version that came out a few years ago was well received - because there was no added colour filter over the base mono sensor. I can undertand how that can produce noticeably different results out-of-camera.


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## Berowne (Jan 14, 2022)

I like it.


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## pzyber (Jan 14, 2022)

BurningPlatform said:


> I sort of agree, raw data should mean just that, data directly from each pixel on the sensor.



With that definition none of the latest Canon cameras got "real" RAW. As example 1DMK3, R5 and R6 all applies noice reduction to the data at lower ISOs before creating the RAW file. R3 does the same but on all ISOs. Some cameras do more than others before creating the RAW file, but it's still as raw as you can get the data out from the camera.


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## reef58 (Jan 14, 2022)

scottburgess said:


> Congratulations to Leica's video team for creating the ultimate cure for insomnia.
> 
> To my sensibility, the unshaven old host reading note cards is about all you need to see: this is your grandfather's camera. A camera reborn of its own corpse like Colin Robinson, something to laugh at before changing the channel. If you want a landscape 35mm camera exclusively, and money is no matter but status totems are, perhaps this is for you as I have no doubt it will capture wonderful images and even more wonderful bragging opportunities. Many of us moved past this long ago.
> 
> If Leica gifted me a kit, I'd sell it, buy an R3, and use the difference to cover the taxes.


Photography is a creative endeavor. Some like barebones some like to indulge. I don't own a Leica and likely never will, but if that is what makes you want to go photograph I am all for it.


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## Del Paso (Jan 14, 2022)

scottburgess said:


> Congratulations to Leica's video team for creating the ultimate cure for insomnia.
> 
> To my sensibility, the unshaven old host reading note cards is about all you need to see: this is your grandfather's camera. A camera reborn of its own corpse like Colin Robinson, something to laugh at before changing the channel. If you want a landscape 35mm camera exclusively, and money is no matter but status totems are, perhaps this is for you as I have no doubt it will capture wonderful images and even more wonderful bragging opportunities. Many of us moved past this long ago.
> 
> If Leica gifted me a kit, I'd sell it, buy an R3, and use the difference to cover the taxes.


Traditional Leica hater's commonplace criticism.
We all know by now that Leica users are stupid bragging rich fools.
Thanks for these fascinating insights!


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## AlanF (Jan 14, 2022)

Del Paso said:


> Traditional Leica hater's commonplace criticism.
> We all know by now that Leica users are stupid bragging rich fools.
> Thanks for these fascinating insights!


Be fair - they often use only 2 from "stupid bragging rich fools"


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## Fran Decatta (Jan 14, 2022)

* Doctors and Lawyers like that * 

Hahahaha Just joking because I can't afford it :,)

Would like to try a Leica just for the experience


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## cayenne (Jan 14, 2022)

AlanF said:


> Be fair - they often use only 2 from "stupid bragging rich fools"


I suppose there are some out there that use Leica as a status symbol.
I doubt that is the majority. To people that have enough disposable cash, they don't really need status symbols like a camera....to those type folks this is pocket change.

I'm not rich, but, but right now with no kids (that I know of)...and not having to deal with WAF on anything, I have disposable income.

I bought the M10M...because I was very facilitated with shooting digital without the color array and the images it produces with increased low light performance and the better graduations of luminance that you really can't seem to get out of a regular color digital camera.

It has been a life changer for my photography, I'm learning now, how to try to "see" scenes in shades of luminance, without color and its really fascinating. I'm often finding that images that would be boring in color, can be fascinating in B&W. And I dunno what the deal is, but many times, my M10M images seem to have almost a medium format look to them.
I have a medium format digital and it's strange how a full frame camera seems to have that look some times.

I don't need status symbols. In fact, one of the reasons I bought the M10M, is because it has no red dot...no perceptible branding at all. Likely as not, most people that see me out, thing I'm carrying some old fashioned point and shoot.

I did actually get a deal on a Leica film camera the MA....I also was only swayed to buy it because I could get the black version with no branding that shows up on it.

I like the rangefinder experience, it is unusual. I enjoy being able to learn to zone focus.....when out and about, I use the sunny 16 rule, and pre-focus my lens for a range and when I see something, I can just pull it up quickly, compose and activate the shutter. I'd dare say this is faster than an AF camera.

The size is fun...I find myself more and more carrying this on casual outings because it is so handy.

And this was my first mirrorless....so, with the M10M, I discovered adapting lenses....this has REALLY proved fun. Old vintage ones are fun...I have a few Russian lenses with their swirly bokeh, and I have been experimenting with the Trioplan 100mm lens and its distinctive bubble bokeh.....I'm even playing with adapting old Nikon and Canon glass that is really great, but pre-AF and adaptable.

So, for me at least, these are some of the experience parts I enjoy. In many ways, part of it is stepping back and seeing how folks shot cameras for decades back before digital....some of the photographic skills of the past are lost on those that only shoot digital...and I'm discovering some of those.

Is this for everyone? Of course not.

Every tool for the job, or toy for those interested.

It's looking like I'll be shooting the large Jazzfest Festival this spring in New Orleans...will I take a rangefinder with me? No...not the right tool for the job.
I'm taking my trusty 5D3....and this time I think I'll just hang the 70-200 f/2,8 off is and using a holdfast harness, this year I think I'll hang my GFX100 on the other side, for wider shots...and be able to use its large image to be able to crop in as I wish.

Tool for the job.

And lastly, I guess I've just never understood people that seem to have to go off on someone else's choice/ability to buy $$$ things. Is it jealousy? Maybe, I don't understand it.
What someone else owns has no effect on me. I'm happy for anyone that is successful, but I"m too busy trying to get success myself to bother much noticing their toys or being angry they have them, whether they think of them as status symbols or not.

For some reasons there are people that just always talk about penis size issues or something or other when they hear Leica....I guess these are the same people that get their panties in a wad when someone drives by in a Corvette, a Viper or a Porsche.

Of course no one "needs" these things...but life isn't about just needs. Life is short...enjoy the things you have and don't be too bothered about what other nice things other people have.

C


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## stevelee (Jan 14, 2022)

The monochrome cameras are the only Leicas that have tempted me. I trust the reasons are obvious. Were I to spend thousands of dollars on photo equipment right now, that would not be my priority. But if I were rich and bored and already had medium format equipment, I’d definitely go for one.


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## bbasiaga (Jan 14, 2022)

pzyber said:


> With that definition none of the latest Canon cameras got "real" RAW. As example 1DMK3, R5 and R6 all applies noice reduction to the data at lower ISOs before creating the RAW file. R3 does the same but on all ISOs. Some cameras do more than others before creating the RAW file, but it's still as raw as you can get the data out from the camera.


There are at least a half dozen approaches to RAW. All are processed somewhat, and all have some amount of noise reduction applied, whether its called that or not. Sony 45mp raw files are 60-80gb, Canons are 45-50, i don't know what Nikon is. CRAW is a canon profile that is RAW, but doesn't have all the data. But except in rare cases no difference can be detected in post processing. Image quality from all mfgs is about equal, though each with its own 'flavor'. 

So bottom line, RAW is RAW, but not all RAWs are the same. In other words, functionally the difference is minimal, or non-existent, so no need to worry about having 'all' the capture data un touched. You've got everything you need, no matter which MFG. 

Side note, it would be academically interesting to know how Leica are making the smaller res files from the same sensor. Also, I'll be sure to use this camera as an example of why the R1 is a good deal when the time comes to get my wife on board. 



Brian


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## Rocky (Jan 14, 2022)

cayenne said:


> I bought the M10M...because I was very facilitated with shooting digital without the color array and the images it produces with increased low light performance and the better graduations of luminance that you really can't seem to get out of a regular color digital camera.
> 
> It has been a life changer for my photography, I'm learning now, how to try to "see" scenes in shades of luminance, without color and its really fascinating. I'm often finding that images that would be boring in color, can be fascinating in B&W. And I dunno what the deal is, but many times, my M10M images seem to have almost a medium format look to them.
> 
> I like the rangefinder experience, it is unusual. I enjoy being able to learn to zone focus.....when out and about, I use the sunny 16 rule, and pre-focus my lens for a range and when I see something, I can just pull it up quickly, compose and activate the shutter. I'd dare say this is faster than an AF camera.


No Bayer pattern, No low pass filter. No demosacing. That is what make the M10M much sharper and almost comparable to MF. Try to get hold of an OLD Hector 135 mm Leica lens ( should be relatively cheap). You will really see the "glow" of black and white. It is a lens with no coating.


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## scottburgess (Jan 14, 2022)

Del Paso said:


> Traditional Leica hater's commonplace criticism.
> We all know by now that Leica users are stupid bragging rich fools.
> Thanks for these fascinating insights!


The Leica cameras are wonderful, the lenses incredibly sharp, the fit-and-finish elegant and refined, and I certainly don't hate them. But the problem is that cameras are mere tools, and these tools offer low feature sets at extremely high prices which at best is impractical for a typical photographer. 

The advertising targets the primary intended market. It is interesting to contrast their video with those from Canon, Nikon and Sony. While the latter companies tout new features and application areas, the Leica ad is pure fluff, droning on about irrelevancies. One is no more informed about why one should buy an M11 after watching than before. Compare this with the intro for the R3, clocking in at 2'50" and crammed with everything to whet the appetite of an amateur or pro: Canon EOS R3 - Introduction.

Even if one made a grand assumption that an M11 takes slightly better features than an R3, I still wouldn't have a use case for it. Macro, wildlife, architectural? The R3 wins hands down, and so would an R5, and R6 and so on. And if I wanted to splurge for a better landscape camera there's always a Fuji GFX 100. 

What several respondents assume is that I must be some sort of Leica hater, or that I'm bashing Leica users. No, I'm bashing Leica for producing yet another camera that no one needs, except perhaps as a status totem, and then _advertising_ it as such. I don't want a $10k camera to put in a glass case in my living room to show off, I want a tool that allows me to do the most possible at the best price. I've shot primarily Canon for more than 30 years because this is exactly what the brand consistently offers. I've migrated from a 110 rangefinder to an Argus rangefinder through film, digital and probably soon to mirrorless because the increase in capabilities allowed me to do more as I grew. I find it silly that immature photographers credit the camera with so much, when top professionals can get more from an iPhone than they can from an R5. An M11 doesn't take great pictures--YOU DO, or YOU DON'T. Learn a tool, and when you outgrow it get a better one.


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## Ozarker (Jan 15, 2022)

Love the Ascot. Haven't seen one since the 1970s. I guess that's Leica's crowd. haha


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## AlanF (Jan 15, 2022)

Just came across this very nice article about Leitz https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/10/secondworldwar.germany When Hitler came to power, Leitz used his Leica factory and its distribution network to get his Jewish employees out of Germany. He purposely took on a string of Jewish apprentices and trained them so that he could transfer them to New York to work in the Leica showroom on Fifth Avenue or at distributors across the US. He kept quiet about it, and it was only after his death that the extent of his humanitarian work came to light.


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## Del Paso (Jan 15, 2022)

scottburgess said:


> The Leica cameras are wonderful, the lenses incredibly sharp, the fit-and-finish elegant and refined, and I certainly don't hate them. But the problem is that cameras are mere tools, and these tools offer low feature sets at extremely high prices which at best is impractical for a typical photographer.
> 
> The advertising targets the primary intended market. It is interesting to contrast their video with those from Canon, Nikon and Sony. While the latter companies tout new features and application areas, the Leica ad is pure fluff, droning on about irrelevancies. One is no more informed about why one should buy an M11 after watching than before. Compare this with the intro for the R3, clocking in at 2'50" and crammed with everything to whet the appetite of an amateur or pro: Canon EOS R3 - Introduction.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but you just keep repeating the same worn cliches: "status totem", "glass case camera", "immature photographers" "no one needs"etc...
If you believe only CaNISoFu produce "real" cameras for "real photographers", you are fully entitled to your opinion.
But criticizing a rangefinder camera because you can't use it for macro and tele shots shows you just don't understand it.
I, for myself, am using Eos AND your hated Leica M. Different uses for different cameras.
Just the opinion of an "immature photographer"... who loves and uses his Leicas.


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## entoman (Jan 15, 2022)

Jethro said:


> I get that it looks great, and there is always a psychological sense of enjoying more using something which is well crafted and beautiful.


I wouldn't dream of using a Leica M11 as my *only* camera, as it's entirely unsuitable for wildlife photography.

But you've just summed up the reasons why I'd love to own an M11 - the sheer pleasure of handling and operating a camera of superlative build quality, and attempting to justify the extravagance by producing beautiful photographs. It's overpriced of course, and unfortunately way beyond my budget.


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## Rocky (Jan 16, 2022)

slclick said:


> (heading to the Haberdasher for my ascot as we speak...*that* I can afford)
> 
> fwiw, as Canon and competitors cameras formerly never came close to the cost of Leicas, that chasm is rapidly shrinking.
> 
> I also have found that generally speaking, those without hands on experience with Leicas, especially the newest M series enjoy a good razzing of the brand and it's stereotypical buyers and those with time spent with one in hand truly appreciate the camera and like Cayenne, can verbalize the shooting experience and imho, make the comedic genius non users come across as sophomoric. My late Father in Law had one and even with his middling amount of technique and experience, his images were stellar. Just imagine what I could have created with a proper bequeathing. Lol.


When I bought my Leica M4 in 1968. It was only $15 more than a Nikon F.


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## Berowne (Jan 16, 2022)

Rocky said:


> When I bought my Leica M4 in 1968. It was only $15 more than a Nikon F.


... and maybe the M4 is still in use and working properly.


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## Rocky (Jan 16, 2022)

Berowne said:


> ... and maybe the M4 is still in use and working properly.


Yes. I bought it brand new. It is still in perfect working condition. I have been using it in rain or shine until I switch to DSLR ( EOS 20D). After that, I still use it occationally for its "exercise".


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## deleteme (Jan 17, 2022)

I am a grandfather now but I was in my teens when I got my M-4 used. Even then it was not cutting edge as it had no meter. I was still the very cool kid with a Leica.
Leica M series are just a delight to handle. The carping about price and specs is always beside the point.
Just as people buy a two door sports car for the fun of it, so too would I buy another M.
I no longer shoot mad frame rates as I am not shooting for money any more. I shoot for fun.
I don't need AF or IBIS or any other stuff. I do think that 60MP is beyond anything I need as I would have to schlep a tripod around to ensure sharpness commensurate with the sensor and lens. 24MP sounds about right though.

My granddaughter moves fast and I can keep up with her with my phone.


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## Del Paso (Jan 17, 2022)

Normalnorm said:


> I am a grandfather now but I was in my teens when I got my M-4 used. Even then it was not cutting edge as it had no meter. I was still the very cool kid with a Leica.
> Leica M series are just a delight to handle. The carping about price and specs is always beside the point.
> Just as people buy a two door sports car for the fun of it, so too would I buy another M.
> I no longer shoot mad frame rates as I am not shooting for money any more. I shoot for fun.
> ...


Neither I would need 60MP.
But the new Apo Summicrons exceed the possibilities of the former sensors, these lenses are killers...
Heaviest cropping possible!
And you are right, what many don't understand, is the pleasure to use a beautiful camera, beyond any "objective" cost-features considerations.
After M2, M3, M5, CL, SL, SL2, R4s2, R6, R7, IIIA and IIIG models, I'd just hate to use "only" reasonable cameras.
Are they worth their price? In my opinion definitely: are there any better WA or standard lenses around?
And I just love the rangefinder!
Yet, for macros, teles (wildlife): Canon's MILCs and ILC's and their great zooms and teles.


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## Berowne (Jan 17, 2022)

Del Paso said:


> Neither I would need 60MP.
> But the new Apo Summicrons exceed the possibilities of the former sensors, these lenses are killers...
> Heaviest cropping possible!
> And you are right, what many don't understand, is the pleasure to use a beautiful camera, beyond any "objective" cost-features considerations.
> ...


Here we are SL & SL2


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## Del Paso (Jan 17, 2022)

Berowne said:


> Here we are SL & SL2
> View attachment 202125


These are beauties!
My favorite one is the SL !
By the way, I replaced the microprism focusing screens on mine with full matte ones, a rather easy operation with the "appropriate" tools.
Spares were till a few years ago still sold by Solms or Wetzlar.
The most difficult task was the removal of the bottom plate (unscrew the normal little screws PLUS unscrewing counterclockwise the tripod thread). Easy if you know it...it took me half a day to get it.
PS: Leica's website says the M11 has a DR of 15 EV !


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## maulanawale (Jan 18, 2022)

cayenne said:


> I suppose there are some out there that use Leica as a status symbol.
> I doubt that is the majority. To people that have enough disposable cash, they don't really need status symbols like a camera....to those type folks this is pocket change.
> 
> I'm not rich, but, but right now with no kids (that I know of)...and not having to deal with WAF on anything, I have disposable income.
> ...


Just to add something to your very well crafted and perfectly reasonable argument.

I'd say most people fall for buying "status symbols" in some way, it's just the price barrier is different. It may be a car, a bike, a computer, a phone, a kitchen appliance, clothing, you name it, but I'm pretty sure we all have that one thing that, all things being equal with other options, we bought because it is a "enter brand name". I can't afford a Leica nor would buy one even if I could, but I do have overpriced Patagonia , Fjalraven , and other outdoor brands items for which I paid more than it is reasonable just because I enjoy them and I feel cool wearing them. Probably even more stupid in my case when I'll probably only be seen by birds and foxes with no sense of fashion 

I genuinely don't see where the problem is with people spending their hard earned cash in whatever the heck they want, as long as that money is earned legally and morally, and spent on things that are mostly legal and mostly moral, but that is a completely different can of worms that shall stay sealed.


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## Del Paso (Jan 18, 2022)

maulanawale said:


> Just to add something to your very well crafted and perfectly reasonable argument.
> 
> I'd say most people fall for buying "status symbols" in some way, it's just the price barrier is different. It may be a car, a bike, a computer, a phone, a kitchen appliance, clothing, you name it, but I'm pretty sure we all have that one thing that, all things being equal with other options, we bought because it is a "enter brand name". I can't afford a Leica nor would buy one even if I could, but I do have overpriced Patagonia , Fjalraven , and other outdoor brands items for which I paid more than it is reasonable just because I enjoy them and I feel cool wearing them. Probably even more stupid in my case when I'll probably only be seen by birds and foxes with no sense of fashion
> 
> I genuinely don't see where the problem is with people spending their hard earned cash in whatever the heck they want, as long as that money is earned legally and morally, and spent on things that are mostly legal and mostly moral, but that is a completely different can of worms that shall stay sealed.


What is overpriced, what does it actually mean?
Commercial companies want and need profit, otherwise they'd go bankrupt.
Isn't a mass-produced Canon or Sony overpriced too? Their production cost is obviously lower than for a camera produced in a far more limited quantity. Besides, why should I pay Euro 5000+ for a fully automatically produced Rolex, even without a date and chronograph function? A quartz Timex being more precise, is a Rolex an idiocy or simply a beautiful watch???
Simple answer: because I want and like it, as you correctly wrote, partly for the brand-appeal and status. But also for different "reasonable" reasons. Just compare, in a street-photography situation, an EOS 1 DX plus 1,4/35 and an M 10 plus its tiny 1,4/35 Summilux...
And the possibility to fit your M 240-10-11 etc... with some of the best lenses available, even 50 years old ones. Our choices are often dictated by emotions, is this wrong if reason participates?
PS: I too buy Patagonia and Fjällräven, and the birds and foxes are happy.


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## Rocky (Jan 19, 2022)

When I bought my M4 in 1968, I was not aiming at statue symbol or prestige. It was only $15 more than a Nikon F. Before that, I own a Exakta VX IIb, with all Ziess ( Easten Germany) lenses. at that time, the Japanese lenses are not as good as my Estern German lens. Since I already have a SLR. I want a ranger finder. Leica and Ziess ( Western Germany) are the BEST at that time. Ziess did not make any range finder camera at thet time either. So the M4 becomes my only choice. Additional benefit of the M4 is the smaller size for both the body and the lenses. with the Elmar 2.8/50 on the M4, I can put them in a coat pocket comfortably by collapsing the lens into the body. I can even put the M4 with 2.0/35 Summicron into the coat pocket.


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## cayenne (Jan 19, 2022)

Berowne said:


> Here we are SL & SL2
> View attachment 202125


I've been dabbling in film the past few years....mostly 120 MF in various aspect ratios from 6x6 to 6 x17....but also some 35mm, especially lately with a Nikon I had custom done in Canada to shoot through a 50mm Mamiya Press MF lens in an aspect ratio a touch wider than a Xpan camera.

I have been looking at one of these early LeicaFlex 35mm cameras....wanting as full mechanical as possible...to shoot normal 35mm aspect.
They seem to be built like tanks....

Ugh...I gotta save up for my next Canon....so, need to keep head on track, I have enough niche film cameras, need to think of my next serious digital one for shooting concerts and fast moving stuff with AF.


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## cayenne (Jan 19, 2022)

Just to balance things out...
I'm still nosing around eBay to at some point by a Fed 3 or a Zorki 4....to play around with.

Often you can just buy these cheap more for the lens than anything else.

That's one thing I love about mirrorless and my M10M was my first mirrorless.....and that is, adapting lenses. I've had a ton of fun playing with old Russian glass, I love the swirls.

And as far as film I like mostly different aspect ratios you can't get with digital (without cropping)....I got a good copy of the HorizonT swing lens camera from Russia. It's the older all metal one, again, built like a tank.

Lots of fun to just carry around. I find that like with the M10M being only B&W...with film cameras with different aspect ratio sizing...I start to think about compositions differently too.

Doing these kinda makes me "see" my world a bit differently, which can't do anything but help a little.


cayenne


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## Del Paso (Jan 19, 2022)

cayenne said:


> Just to balance things out...
> I'm still nosing around eBay to at some point by a Fed 3 or a Zorki 4....to play around with.
> 
> Often you can just buy these cheap more for the lens than anything else.
> ...


I once had a Zorki 4.
The best about the camera, apart from the lens, was the owner's manual in French.
Quote: "The camera you dare not put in the side of great sun, shutter could get burning" (sic).
Nasdrowje!


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