# "Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" - Digglloyd



## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

Some interesting reading:

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2015/20150822_1402-SonyA7R_II-focus.html

"Something strange happened on my recent trip: I did not see any mis-focused images from the Sony A7R II. I mean, none.

Try doing that with a Nikon D810 or Canon 5DS R with an autofocus lens—I have and never come close, as past autofocus assessments show. And it’s hopeless to focus a lens manually using the optical viewfinder in a DSLR—the focusing screen is designed for autofocus and can’t show more than about f/2.8 - f/4 equivalent—massive slop—and it is a different optical path almost never the same distance as the sensor (inherent error even with perfect eyes). "

I tested earlier AF with Canon EF 85 F/1.2L II and have the similar results .
Always 100% in focus even at F1.2 and AF is fast.
Moreover , a7rII was able to autofocus with 85mm at F1.2 in extremely dim condition, could hardly see, without any AF assist light , though somewhat slower than in lighter environment.
And this test shot EXIF shows brightens value of minus 6.56.
This is really impressive and this is with 3d party lens, not native one.

Also something interesting on DXOMark 
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-II-versus-Canon-EOS-5DS-versus-Canon-EOS-1Dx___1035_1008_753 
Sony a7r II Low light ISO is better than Canon 1Dx - 3434 ISO for a7RII vs 2786 on Canon 1Dx.
Just in the middle between 1Dx an a7s.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 28, 2015)

Site hit searching hyperbole. I have seen numerous YouTube videos now that clearly illustrate quite different performance.


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## Don Haines (Aug 28, 2015)

*Re: "Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*

Are you shooting mountain vistas or are you shooting bumblebees with a macro lens....


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## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used"- Digglloyd*



privatebydesign said:


> Site hit searching hyperbole. I have seen numerous YouTube videos now that clearly illustrate quite different performance.



Since I got my own piece I do not care much about that videos , I trust people to which I really trust if I can not test myself but better trust my own experience.
May be that guys do not know how to use it in optimal way, also depends on lens and aperture.
This is the exactly the same as on 1DX - you need to set AF properties to what is required.
Set for AF accuracy and camera will shot when AF is 100% in focus.
Need speed - set for speed.
Need balanced - set for balanced.

a7rII AF with fast lenses is very accurate and very fast.
AF works perfectly with Canon 85F1.2LII, 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 F/2.8L IS USM II.
I was really surprised, did not expect that with old Metabone III adapter.
With Canon 85F1.2LII and Zeiss 35 F1.4 focuses even in extremely dim conditions and what is more important - accurately.
Performance with Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II is beyond my expectations


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## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

Neutral said:


> Also something interesting on DXOMark
> http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-II-versus-Canon-EOS-5DS-versus-Canon-EOS-1Dx___1035_1008_753
> Sony a7r II Low light ISO is better than Canon 1Dx - 3434 ISO for a7RII vs 2786 on Canon 1Dx.
> Just in the middle between 1Dx an a7s.



In particular SNR vs. ISO graph is of particular interest for me.
Across all ISO range a7rII SNR is better at least one 1db compared to 1Dx but at ISO 51K it is better even by 3.1db - this is really significant.
This means that I can use a7rII with better SNR (better IQ) than 1Dx at high ISOs.

So now Canon has no more advantage over Sony at high ISOs even for high mpx universal Sony camera , let alone specialized a7S.
Hope they will be able to get ahead in this area again with 1DXm2.
But then let's wait for Sony response with a7s2 and possibly with a9.
Very interesting time now.


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## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

Color Sensitivity graph is also very interesting.
Both SNR,DR and this graph shows that Sony does something starting from ISO 25K on a7r2 to improve very high ISO performance and make it more usable compared to competitors.


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## bwud (Aug 28, 2015)

*Re: "Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



Don Haines said:


> Are you shooting mountain vistas or are you shooting bumblebees with a macro lens....



Exactly. I just rejected a bunch of A7R II photos, shot at f/2 28mm (not exactly razor thin DOF, but pretty narrow), for missed focus. Mountain vistas? a) hard to miss, and b) hard to say substantially afterwards exactly what you intended to focus on, thus making the claim that you didn't miss tenuous.



There aren't significantly more or fewer photos with eyelashes sharp rather than pupils than I'd expect from my 5D3. That is pretty impressive for on-sensor PDAF, however selecting the focus point is tedious given poorly-designed controls, so I missed more opportunities than I would have with for example the joystick on my 5D.


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## bwud (Aug 28, 2015)

Neutral said:


> Color Sensitivity graph is also very interesting.
> Both SNR,DR and this graph shows that Sony does something starting from ISO 25K on a7r2 to improve very high ISO performance and make it more usable compared to competitors.



I believe that's when they start dialing in a lot of spacial filtering. The really important shift is the one at 640, where the conversion gain evidently changes.


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## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



bwud said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Are you shooting mountain vistas or are you shooting bumblebees with a macro lens....
> ...



??? *however selecting the focus point is tedious given poorly-designed controls, * ???
Sounds like you still in learning curve how to use a7rII in optimal way and do optimal customization for yourself.

All is so easy and simple - it is customizable to the very extreme level - in total 24 programmable positions !!! on this small body.
I never seen that in any other camera, including my 1Dx.
You need just to spend some time with a7rII settings - set it to what is convenient for you and you will see how many things would be much easier and faster to do. 
Anything is just one or two clicks away.
You have the same joystick on a7rII as on your 5D - this is functional wheel with presses at right/left/top/bottom
Set bottom position to be "Focus Area" and you will have option to select focus area settings and focus block size with just one click of the thumb. Then use a7rII "joystick" to move this focus point to desired position or delete button to reset AF point to the center of the frame.
And all is just in fractions of second.
I find this much more convenient and more fast than on my 1DX


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 28, 2015)

*Re: "Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy*

Focus on the A7R II should be accurate, at least for still photos.

As for high ISO, its fine if you down sample it to 8mp. Might as well just buy a 8 mp camera though.

There is a very good article on DPR describing the low light autofocus and the issues as well as benefits which depend on the lens you use. Basically, you need to use a F2 or faster lens to get fast low light AF. For f/2.8 and slower, DSLR's may have a accuracy and speed advantage at least in low light.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6884391759/sony-alpha-7r-ii-can-match-or-beat-dslr-low-light-af-performance?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=features-default&utm_medium=homepage-block&ref=features-default


Unfortunately, DPR does not have their studio results yet available so that the cameras can be compared under different lighting and ISO's.

The jpeg images on imaging resource look pretty good though.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
So, the situation is not clear cut, like all cameras, you need to know exactly how the AF works so you can get the most out of it. Unfortunately, you are not always able to use optimum settings, in which case, AF will suffer.


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## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

bwud said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > Color Sensitivity graph is also very interesting.
> ...



I think your refer to this article ?
----------------
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11168

•The D810 has better base ISO read noise and EDR.
•The cameras are neck and neck at ISO 100.
•*At ISO 640, the a7RII pulls ahead and stays ahead*.
•*The a7RII improvement at ISO 32000 and above is bogus, accomplished through in-camera spatial low-pass filtering.*
------------------


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## unfocused (Aug 28, 2015)

Obviously the author doesn't own a 7DII.


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## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

*Re: "Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy*



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> *Focus on the A7R II should be accurate, at least for still photos*.
> 
> As for high ISO, its fine if you down sample it to 8mp. Might as well just buy a 8 mp camera though.
> 
> ...


1. Exactly - as all AF data are provided directly from the sensor and sensor PDAF points. 
But it is also important to set focus point to where is exactly required so proper AF mode/AF point selection is critical.
E.g. to focus on eye it is better to use eye AF - this works very well.
To make it easy to use (works almost instantly) the best way is to set AEL button for eye AF and use AF-C mode instead of AF-S. 
Then A7rII tracks eye even when face is moving across the frame


2. When DPR published results of this test I did the same tests next day with Canon 85mm F1.2L II and native Zeiss 35 mm F1.4 and had the same results. This was nice surprise. 
So I was mentioning this here (AF was functional for brightness level below -6) and in other posts earlier. This ability is basically function of light captured by sensor. 
More light in dim conditions coming on sensor - means less noise , more accurate and fast AF. 
The only problem with Canon lenses - eye AF is not possible and as well as continuous AF in video mode
Having said that also need to add that AF speed is different for different lenses - e.g. on new 90mm macro it is noticeable slower than on Zeiss 35mm F.1.4 or Sony 55mm F1.8

So far I am pleased with a7rII. Of course it has it's weak points , there is nothing 100% perfect in our world, but in general set of features is very well balanced.


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## Neutral (Aug 28, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Obviously the author doesn't own a 7DII.



Does 7DII has better and more accurate AF than Nikon D810 or Canon 5DS R which he is using and with which he is comparing ???

Very interesting, if so then many users of Nikon D810 or Canon 5DS R cameras should consider using 7DII instead.

This guy is using many different bodies and he is one of the trusted testers/ reviewers/publishes and even manufactures are listening to his technical comments or complains.
In fact he has a lot of criticism for some aspects a7RII. He tells his practical experience.


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## unfocused (Aug 28, 2015)

Neutral said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously the author doesn't own a 7DII.
> ...



Yes, it does. The 7DII autofocus is very close to the Canon 1DX and Nikon D4S. 



Neutral said:


> Very interesting, if so then many users of Nikon D810 or Canon 5DS R cameras should consider using 7DII instead.



No. Intelligent buyers of the D810 and 5DS R are buying high resolution full frame quality. While they may be very serviceable for sports or wildlife, that is not their primary function. 

Buy the 7DII if you need accurate autofocus at 10 frames/second and cannot afford the flagship Canon or Nikon. Buy the 5DS if you want to print large, crop heavily or need very high resolution.


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## bwud (Aug 29, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



Neutral said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Of that I have no doubt. I get better with it every day.



Neutral said:


> and do optimal customization for yourself.



I have it fairly customized. **




Neutral said:


> All is so easy and simple - it is customizable to the very extreme level - in total 24 programmable positions !!! on this small body.
> I never seen that in any other camera, including my 1Dx.
> You need just to spend some time with a7rII settings - set it to what is convenient for you and you will see how many things would be much easier and faster to do.
> Anything is just one or two clicks away.
> ...



My problem isn't getting to AF point selection mode. I have down set to Focus Settings, so I just have to double-tap it to get into point selection mode. My problem is actually selecting the point.

The root of the problem, I think, is that the wheel does other things, and is very apt to jump into a different mode while I'm trying to move the point around. I can't just mash it with abandon trying to get it where I want in the face of a moving subject.

I went so far as to disable the left and right buttons, which helped some, but I still have to be very diligent when I go from scrolling horizontally to scrolling vertically. My natural tendency is to not entirely lift my thumb when going from left/right to up/down, which causes me to inadvertently roll the wheel, which kicks me out of point selection. 

**
I have:
Left Button - Not Set
Right Button - Not Set
Down Button - Focus Settings
AEL Button - Deactivate Monitor
AF/MF Button - Eye AF
Focus Hold Button - Focus Hold - and I'll admit that I have no clue where the focus hold button is.
Control Wheel - Aperture
Custom 1 - Focus Magnifier
Custom 2 - Metering Mode
Custom 3 - ISO
Custom 4 - Focus Area
Center Button - AF On

This lets me do basically anything I'm likely to do without moving my fingers far from the exposure, focus, and shutter release.

It irks me that I can't go into manual focus (with native glass) without actually enabling manual mode. It also irks me that I have to enable manual mode with any type of glass to allow focus magnify. 

Because I had to kill a custom button on ISO after removing it from right, I had to put Focus Mode in the Fn menu. It's a bit annoying but not the end of the world. Too bad I can't use the movie button for anything.



Neutral said:


> I think your refer to this article ?
> ----------------
> http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11168



Well, I wasn't referring to a comparison with the D810, but yes, I'm basing it on Jim's data and his discussion about it on DPreview. He shows an increase in DR at 640 (most-likely due to DR-Pix conversion gain).


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## sdsr (Aug 29, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



bwud said:


> It irks me that I can't go into manual focus (with native glass) without actually enabling manual mode. It also irks me that I have to enable manual mode with any type of glass to allow focus magnify.



I share some of your complaints (I too have disabled the other functions on the wheel buttons ever since buying my first a7 series camera 18 months ago), including the comment in the first sentence above about manual focus and native glass. But you're wrong in the second sentence - I set the center button on the dial to focus magnify and whenever I attach a manual lens (or a Canon AF lens switched to MF) that's all I need to press (once to bring up the magnification-area box, once more to magnify it (and again to magnify further, though I seldom do)) ; I only change the camera to MF mode when I attach a native lens. (The same is true for the other a7 bodies and the a6000.)


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## bwud (Aug 29, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



sdsr said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > It irks me that I can't go into manual focus (with native glass) without actually enabling manual mode. It also irks me that I have to enable manual mode with any type of glass to allow focus magnify.
> ...



Yes, that (bolded in the quote of your post) is the rub. The lens has to be set to MF. Unless something somewhere is telling the camera that you want MF, magnify doesn't work. It seems rather silly. Hit the button, zoom the screen. What possible reason is there to require the camera to be in manual focus mode to zoom the viewfinder? I usually shoot AF (landscapes aside), and one of the major advantages to decoupling AF from the shutter release is the ability to override AF when it isn't working by merely turning the focus ring. Requiring a setting toggle, be it in the menu or on the lens, diminishes that advantage. One shouldn't need to inform the camera of one's intentions to focus manually.


Edit: and I'm glad I'm not the only one who disabled buttons on the control wheel. I thought maybe I was being rash


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## Neutral (Aug 29, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



bwud said:


> My problem isn't getting to AF point selection mode. I *have down set to Focus Settings*, so I just have to double-tap it to get into point selection mode. My problem is actually selecting the point.
> 
> The root of the problem, *I think, is that the wheel does other things, and is very apt to jump into a different mode while I'm trying to move the point around*. I can't just mash it with abandon trying to get it where I want in the face of a moving subject.
> 
> ...



I use all that differently in a way which is most convenient for me.
No assignments for functional wheel at top functional level to prevent accidental changes of anything.
At lower functional level it changes its functionality depending where you are at the settings changes.
May be sharing my experience and settings could be used for someone else as well.
-------------- 
*“It irks me that I can't go into manual focus (with native glass) without actually enabling manual mode”*
Probably you did not find that, you could do that.
You have the same AF override in a7rII (also in older a7r and a7s) with native lenses as on Canon bodies.
You can switch that AF Manual override mode ON or OFF in AF mode settings.
*This is called DMF mode,* selectable via AF mode settings
You can do AF and then switch to Manual Focus by starting to focus manually.
Unfortunately, his works only for native lenses, for 3d party lenses you need to toggle manually. 
This is not a Sony body problem – this is adapter problem, it does not pass all the information from lenses to the Sony body. 
May be Metabone fix that with FW update or will start making new adapter.
---------------
*There is difference in operations between “Focus Area” and “Focus Settings” functions though both are used to get the same result*.
I tried “Focus Settings” initially but then change that to “Focus Area” for the same reason you mentioned in your reply.
Difference between them is that for “Focus Settings” you need to rotate functional wheel to select what is required and then press center button and then you could start moving AF point. Not convenient and easy to change something else.
When you use “Focus Area” you get focus parameters on the left of the screen and select them using joystick.
I find that easier and more convenient, so I set down button to be “Focus Area” and center button for “Focus Magnifier”. 
After that, I do not use “Focus Settings” function at all as all done via “Focus Area”
Just press “Focus Area” then select focus settings and then press center button to move it around the frame.
-------------- 
Very useful functions is “Lock-on AF” which you can use in AF-C mode and as “Lock-on Center AF” in AF-S mode.
No need to move focus point manually, focus initially and after focus lock on the subject recompose the frame and a7rII will keep the focus where it was initially set.
I find that very convenient.
--------------- 
To be able to see if I am in AF mode or manual I switched ON PDAF focus areas borders and CDAF area borders. 
Therefore, they are visible in AF mode and off in manual mode. 
This works as AF mode indicator for me. 
Also I use focus peaking – it is engaged in manual focus mode so this is additional indicator that I am in manual focus mode.
---------- 
For switching between AF and MF when using Canon Lenses I use C4 button set up as AF/MF toggle.
Pressing C4 and then the Center Button for “Focus Magnifier” and use joystick (up/down/left/right) to move focus area around. 
When focus area in required position press again “Focus Magnifier” to increase magnification and continue to adjust smaller focus block position or finish focusing. 
In addition, all that just using single clicks of the thumb (just one free finger is used for that)
----------------------- 
Attached is snapshot of my custom settings for a7rII.
I did common setup for common functions in still and movie modes so that I could get anything that I need instantly within one or two clicks. 
Front and rear dials are with default settings - aperture and shutter speed.
No need to move aperture to functional wheel.
Some of the buttons could be changed occasionally so I created for myself small table with the current settings in order to be able to quickly roll back, otherwise it is very difficult to remember what was where.

Regarding “Focus Hold” button:
There is no such button on a7 body. 
This is button on some of the native lenses – 90mm macro, 70-200mm and some others.

Though this does not bother me I also wish that default movie button could be customizable, hopefully with the next FW release this might be fixed, Sony team are aware of this requirements.

What is real irritation is that it is not possible to assign toggle function between APC-C/Super 35mm to Full Frame to any custom buttons to switch over with the single click.
Instead, need to do that via menu.
This is very annoying. I believe this also might be fixed in the FW update, Sony is also aware of this problem for customers.


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## Neutral (Aug 29, 2015)

*Some notes on DMF mode (Manual Focus Override Mode):*

It works as follows:
1. Half-press of shutter button invokes AF on selected AF area
2. Then when object is in focus (or even before that) you can start rotate manual focus ring on the lens.
3. At this point (manual focus ring movement) camera will immediately switch to Manual Focus mode, turn on focus magnification and user could continue with manual focus adjustments. 
If Focus peaking enabled user will have that as well and could use that for precise focus.

In Manual Focus override mode Current Focus area is shown at the left bottom corner as PIP window, user can move it using joystick or magnify it more using Focus magnifier button (center button in my settings). And this is just single click of the thumb.
Just remember to to keep release button half pressed (manual focus hold involved) otherwise camera will return into AF mode.

Also it should be clear that focus magnification works only when manual focus is engaged , otherwise if in AF mode camera will tell that function is not supported in AF mode. 
This is normal , it would be very strange if focus magnification could be involved in AF mode.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 29, 2015)

This thread has turned very educational. Thanks all!


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## sdsr (Aug 29, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



bwud said:


> Edit: and I'm glad I'm not the only one who disabled buttons on the control wheel. I thought maybe I was being rash



I struggled for the first month or so thinking I would get used to it, but I got tired of swearing/yelling at the camera every time I tried moving the focus point and instead brought up the iso controls etc., which seemed to happen with no decreasing frequency. Moving it around still seems slow, though, as you say, but perhaps that's inevitable given that the the area is bigger, and the number of focus points far higher, than on any dslr. Another reason why I prefer mf, which often seems faster....


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## bwud (Aug 29, 2015)

Neutral said:


> *“It irks me that I can't go into manual focus (with native glass) without actually enabling manual mode”*
> Probably you did not find that, you could do that.
> You have the same AF override in a7rII (also in older a7r and a7s) with native lenses as on Canon bodies.
> You can switch that AF Manual override mode ON or OFF in AF mode settings.
> ...



Thanks, I didn't know about that. I just tried it. It isn't quite the same as on Canon bodies in that you have to lock autofocus first and keep the AF activated while adjusting manually. Still, it's better than going in and activating MF.
(edit: just saw your followup post to that effect)



Neutral said:


> *There is difference in operations between “Focus Area” and “Focus Settings” functions though both are used to get the same result*.
> I tried “Focus Settings” initially but then change that to “Focus Area” for the same reason you mentioned in your reply.
> Difference between them is that for “Focus Settings” you need to rotate functional wheel to select what is required and then press center button and then you could start moving AF point. Not convenient and easy to change something else.
> When you use “Focus Area” you get focus parameters on the left of the screen and select them using joystick.
> ...



Oh, you're right, it is much better when accessed via Focus Area. 





Neutral said:


> Very useful functions is “Lock-on AF” which you can use in AF-C mode and as “Lock-on Center AF” in AF-S mode.
> No need to move focus point manually, focus initially and after focus lock on the subject recompose the frame and a7rII will keep the focus where it was initially set.
> I find that very convenient.



Yes, and now that I've put Focus Area on Down, I'm experimenting with Center Lock-on AF". I'm a bit confused, though. I can not find "Lock-on AF." The help guide suggests it can be enabled via the menus, but the only thing I have is Center Lock-on AF." However, Center Lock-on AF doesn't appear in the help guide.

It seems to do a good job drawing a box around what was initially in the center, but it doesn't do a particularly good job of keeping it in focus 

I'll have to play with it more. 




Neutral said:


> Also I use focus peaking – it is engaged in manual focus mode so this is additional indicator that I am in manual focus mode.



Do you find peeking to be reliable? I can shoot something wide open at near MFD, and it will highlight high-contrast things which are WAY out of focus.



Neutral said:


> No need to move aperture to functional wheel.



I think that comes down to comfort. I like my exposure controls to be where my fingers and thumb naturally like to sit. I find it extremely uncomfortable holding the camera with my thumb up near the rear wheel (the default shutter speed one). I have a hard time even rotating it because it's recessed so far behind that bevel. Reaching the functional wheel is much easier and lends itself to how I hold the camera. I moved shutter speed to the front wheel.



Neutral said:


> Some of the buttons could be changed occasionally so I created for myself small table with the current settings in order to be able to quickly roll back, otherwise it is very difficult to remember what was where.



Thanks for sharing your table. I'm going to print it and use it as a reference. I have a bunch of photos of the settings I've selected on my phone. This is a much better way to document.



Neutral said:


> Regarding “Focus Hold” button:
> There is no such button on a7 body.
> This is button on some of the native lenses – 90mm macro, 70-200mm and some others.



a'ha. No wonder 


Thanks for your tips, they've been very helpful. I'll keep playing around.


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## bwud (Aug 29, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



sdsr said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: and I'm glad I'm not the only one who disabled buttons on the control wheel. I thought maybe I was being rash
> ...



See Neutral's suggestion about using Focus Area. You have to select the setting (eg flexible spot) first, but then the point selection screen is all you see, and it doesn't jump off. Even rolling the wheel doesn't kick you out - it just changes the spot size.


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## Neutral (Aug 29, 2015)

bwud said:


> Thanks, I didn't know about that. I just tried it. It isn't quite the same as on Canon bodies in that you have to lock autofocus first and keep the AF activated while adjusting manually. Still, it's better than going in and activating MF.
> (edit: just saw your followup post to that effect)



Forgot to mention a couple of things here:
1. MF Assist should be turned ON to force camera to go into magnification mode when MF is invoked.
2. I set Focus Magnification Time to no limit- to allow me to use magnification as long as I need.
Both are under Custom Settings , page 1.


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## sdsr (Aug 29, 2015)

Neutral said:


> Also it should be clear that focus magnification works only when manual focus is engaged , otherwise if in AF mode camera will tell that function is not supported in AF mode.
> This is normal , it would be very strange if focus magnification could be involved in AF mode.



Strange, perhaps, but I've discovered a context where it could perhaps be useful. I have AF set to single flexible spot, smallest size. When I use a native lens and the camera thinks it's in focus, the edges of the little box turns green. But when I attach a Canon lens that works well in PDAF mode on the a7rII the camera often finds several tiny boxes within the regular small box - when there's a lot of fine detail at slightly different focal distances in the flexible spot area, one or two or more little boxes will light up inside it, seeming to provide me with yet more precision. But the area involved is so small I can seldom see just what the choice is; magnification would help there. I have never seen these mini boxes with native lenses (perhaps they only show up for those in AF modes I don't use?). Presumably others have noticed this too. 

(I can confirm, should anyone care, that the EF 28mm IS works extremely well in PDAF mode on an a7rII via Metabones III, at least outdoors in daylight; better than the EF 40mm pancake which I was testing at the same time - it sometimes went into crazy hunt mode, including (weirdly, I thought) when I tried to get it to focus on a white skyscraper with the sun shining directly at it, the windows effectively creating a sort of black-and-white checkerboard with lots of contrast.)


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## Neutral (Aug 29, 2015)

bwud said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > Very useful functions is “Lock-on AF” which you can use in AF-C mode and as “Lock-on Center AF” in AF-S mode.
> ...



I explained that day or two ago in the other thread - please see below.
"Center Lock-On AF" is used to engage AF tracking when camera is in single shot AF-S mode
"Lock-on AF" options are available when AF mode set to AF-C (continuous AF).
When AF mode is AF-C then user can see additional AF settings when pressing "Focus Area" - just after Expand Flexible Spot AF.
These include the following "Lock-on AF" options:
Wide, Zone, Center, Flexible Spot S, M, L or Expand Flexible Spot .
When focus is locked then focus track box is following object across the frame.
Could be very useful in many cases.



Neutral said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


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## bwud (Aug 29, 2015)

Ah, so it's not something you can map to a custom key (like center lock). That's too bad.

It's odd if center lock only works in AF-S, since while in AF-C it doesn't pop up an error screen (which it does routinely when you do something wrong, like try to focus magnify while AF is active), and draws boxes around the tracked object. I guess it tracks the object location but doesn't actually focus on it.



Neutral said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, I didn't know about that. I just tried it. It isn't quite the same as on Canon bodies in that you have to lock autofocus first and keep the AF activated while adjusting manually. Still, it's better than going in and activating MF.
> ...



I am not a fan of automatic zoom, so I have AF assist off.


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## Neutral (Aug 29, 2015)

bwud said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > Also I use focus peaking – it is engaged in manual focus mode so this is additional indicator that I am in manual focus mode.
> ...



I use it only for general reference, definitely it could not be always reliable as it is based on highlighting sharp edges without knowing where is the focus exactly. So I prefer to pre-focus using first magnification step and then go to the maximum magnification and complete it using my eyes.
Found also that latest 5-inch Sony Clip-on HD LCD HDMI monitor CLM-FHD5 (which I bought for manual focus in video) is very useful and helpful for Manual Focus assist in still mode as my eyes are not sharp for using LCD monitor on the camera. 
This is of smartphone size with many useful functions and very light. 
Also it works perfectly well on Canon 1DX


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## Neutral (Aug 29, 2015)

sdsr said:


> (I can confirm, should anyone care, that the EF 28mm IS works extremely well in PDAF mode on an a7rII via Metabones III, at least outdoors in daylight; better than the EF 40mm pancake which I was testing at the same time - it sometimes went into crazy hunt mode, including (weirdly, I thought) when I tried to get it to focus on a white skyscraper with the sun shining directly at it, the windows effectively creating a sort of black-and-white checkerboard with lots of contrast.)



Tested Canon 85mm F/1.2L II, 24-70mm F/2.8L II, 70-200mm F/2.8L II and all work perfectly well using PDAF on a7rII via Metabones III. And 24-70mm F/2.8L II is just exceptionally well - this is now my primary zoom on a7rII.


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## sdsr (Aug 29, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



bwud said:


> sdsr said:
> 
> 
> > bwud said:
> ...



Yes, I've already been doing that, but it still seems slower than, say, 5DIII - but this is pretty trivial whining on my part, I know. It really doesn't matter much (especially since I usually do MF anyway). 

As for focus peaking, like others I don't think it's of much use by itself except at very close range, where my success rate is pretty high (shortly after I bought my a7r I spent a few hours at Longwood Gardens with the Canon 100L attached to it using nothing but focus peaking and was pleasantly surprised by the results). Combine it with magnification and my success rate, at any focal length, is as close to 100% as I ever hope to get (higher than I've ever achieved with AF on any brand of camera). I've read that some other company has more reliable focus peaking, though given how it works I'm not sure why it should vary from brand to brand (it may have been Olympus, but I can't check because my OM-D EM5 doesn't have it). Of course, the author may have been full of it....


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## jaayres20 (Aug 31, 2015)

Wow 100% keeper rate and better than DSLRs! I assume I will start seeing these superior focusing cameras on the sidelines of my favorite sporting events this fall.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



Neutral said:


> Very useful functions is “Lock-on AF” which you can use in AF-C mode and as “Lock-on Center AF” in AF-S mode.
> No need to move focus point manually, focus initially and after focus lock on the subject recompose the frame and a7rII will keep the focus where it was initially set.
> I find that very convenient.



I tried using lock-on AF today with my son at the zoo. It seemed more miss than hit. It works well enough (wouldn't rely on it for critical focus on eyes, for example) when he takes up a sizable portion of the AF boundaries, but when he's further away it just draws green boxes all over him and focus is kinda-sorta-whateverish. Don't get me wrong - I'm not expecting miracles, I just don't think I have much use for it.


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## RobPan (Aug 31, 2015)

Hi Neutral, thank you for all the information you gave on the A7RII. 
As my 5D3 was stolen some time ago, I am looking for a replacement. According to rumors the 5D4 will feature extremely high ISO up to 204,800, which would be very welcome for me. But if there is still no announcement before the beginning of November, my choice will be the A7RII.
I have some Canon lenses which I will want to use on this Sony body. As the A7RII body does have built in IS, will it be better to switch off the Canon IS (in the lens)? I suppose IS in the body will not go well with on lens IS at the same time. Is this correct? 
A second question: can one have BF (back focus) on the A7RII? I had it on the 5D3 and I loved it.

Kind regards,

Rob


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 31, 2015)

RobPan said:


> As the A7RII body does have built in IS, will it be better to switch off the Canon IS (in the lens)? I suppose IS in the body will not go well with on lens IS at the same time. Is this correct?



Enable it on the lens; in body IS is disabled when you attach a stabilized lens.



RobPan said:


> A second question: can one have BF (back focus) on the A7RII? I had it on the 5D3 and I loved it.



I assume you mean back button autofocus. I'd be mad if I had back focus 

The answer is yes: you can decouple AF-on from the shutter release and map it to a number of different buttons.


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## RobPan (Aug 31, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> RobPan said:
> 
> 
> > As the A7RII body does have built in IS, will it be better to switch off the Canon IS (in the lens)? I suppose IS in the body will not go well with on lens IS at the same time. Is this correct?
> ...



Thanks for your answers! From now on I will be having back mutton autofocus. BTW I am still wondering about the poor thief of my 5D3 who does not know about BF and never gets focused pictures. How will he sell that useless camera? Regards, Rob.


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## Neutral (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re:"Sony A7R II: Focus Accuracy Better than Any DSLR I’ve Ever Used" -*



3kramd5 said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > Very useful functions is “Lock-on AF” which you can use in AF-C mode and as “Lock-on Center AF” in AF-S mode.
> ...



I think this is normal and could be happening.

First, I think that “Lock-on AF” primary mode of operation is to track moving objects within the frame when camera is not moving itself - so trajectory of the tracked object is predictable and could extrapolated ahead.

I tried it in just opposite mode – track still object while moving camera itself – by symmetry principle applied to many things it should work and it was actually working for me. 

Though in doing so couple of things need to be considered:
1. Image stabilization should be turned off , otherwise it could be interfering with AF when camera being moved and image could be smeared.
2. Do not move object out of PDAF area where AF is fast, when object is out of PDAF in CDAF area focus speed will be significantly slower and might be not fast enough to follow object move within fame (when moving camera to do frame re-composition).
3. When using this non-standard mode it is better to use sharper and faster lenses, they should work better (I will test this later when have time).
4. After recomposing frame while keeping object in focus lock it might be required to give a little bit of time at final position to allow to camera to better re-focus on the object

I will do some more tests on this later to research this a bit more.


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## Neutral (Aug 31, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> RobPan said:
> 
> 
> > A second question: can one have BF (back focus) on the A7RII? I had it on the 5D3 and I loved it.
> ...



Yes, this is function named "AF-on" which could be assigned to any programmable button/position.
And AF with half press of shutter release button still will be functional.


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## Neutral (Aug 31, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> RobPan said:
> 
> 
> > As the A7RII body does have built in IS, will it be better to switch off the Canon IS (in the lens)? I suppose IS in the body will not go well with on lens IS at the same time. Is this correct?
> ...



Yes I also think that it is better to use lens IS when using Canon lens but need to consider following:
A7rII does not know about IS on Canon lens, information about Canon lens IS not relayed to the a7rII by adapter - I use Metabones III one. 
Even if this information could be passed result could be very bad. 
A7rII IBIS is not designed to work together with the Canon lens IS.
For Sony native lenses body IBIS work together with lens IS.

So to use Canon lens IS it is required to turn off body IBIS, Canon lens IS will stay on as lens does not know about body IBIS.
Without switching IBIS off it and Canon lens IS will interfere with each other as they do not know about each other and result would be smeared image.
This is one of the reasons I have all OSS settings in functional menu - to make it easy to do required settings when Canon lens attached.
I tested Canon EF 70-200mm F/2.8L IS USM II image stabilization - get sharp images when ISO Auto Min. SS is set to slowest.
For 200mm it gets SS=1/50s . 
This means about 3 stops of IS , as for a7rII 42mbpx for sharp HH image one need to have shutter speed in non IS mode around 1/(2*F).
I assigned "ISO Auto Min. SS" to the first functional position in the functional menu set to get quick access to it.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 31, 2015)

Neutral said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > RobPan said:
> ...



I use the Metabones IV, which does pass IS information to the body. When I put on an IS lens, if I try to enable Steady Shot, it says no and tells me to enable it on the lens.


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## RobPan (Sep 1, 2015)

Neutral said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > RobPan said:
> ...



Thanks! But I hope I can disable the AF through the half press of the shutter release. It would not be helpful if the subject is not in the center. [Simple example: a portrait, you want the subject to be to the left of the center. You focus and press the (assigned) AF-on button on the back of the camera. Next you move the camera to the right, so the subject will be in the left half of the picture. If pressing the shutter release now causes AF again, your picture will be unsharp.]
Regards, Rob.


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 1, 2015)

RobPan said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



You can. Gear menu -> 5th tab -> set "AF w/ shutter" to Off.


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## Neutral (Sep 1, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



OK, so Metabones IV is smarter than Metabones III in this respect and does everything as required and provides better communication in general between a7rII and Canon lens

Interesting if it provides better integration of Canon Lenses with A7rII for AF, especially for Continues AF while camera is performing object tracking.

With my Metabones III and EF 70-200 I see PDAF points only in AF-S mode but do not see anything in AF-C mode, even no green AF lock square though A7rII is tracking object and provided in-focus indication. 
In addition, some AF functions are not available for AF-C mode including Zone, Expand Flexible Spot and all “Lock-on AF” options. 

I am interested to see if it makes any sense to get Metabones IV adapter instead of III and if it gets me any real advantages and additional features over my existing one ver.3, especially for AF-C mode.
In general some selected Canon lens perform very well with a7rII via Metabones adapter and for AF-S provide extremely accurate focus but for continious AF it is still questionable and need to be researched more. 
At the moment I do not have high expectations here as for fast continuous AF lens and body need to be very tightly integrated which is not the case with 3d party lenses.

To get best of Canon lenses in continuous AF mode it still better to use them on 1DX or other Canon bodies with similar AF system. 
Therefore, for now I do not consider a7rII as replacement for my 1DX where instant continuous AF is required with Canon L lenses.
For stills – yes, a7rII now is perfect universal camera, for continuous AF possibly more or less OK with native lenses (I still did not test that in depth).
The other thing we still do not know much about a7rII PDAF points - how many are cross type, is there any difference in accuracy for PDAF points in the center of PDAF area and PDAF points at the edge.


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## Neutral (Sep 1, 2015)

Found interesting article about Sony A7r II with Sigma 150-600mm:

http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/08/28/sony-a7r-ii-autofocus-with-sigma-lenses/

"we took the opportunity to push the Sony A7r mark II‘s autofocus capabilities to the extreme by mounting the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Contemporary (Canon EF mount) and the Metabones Mark IV adapter to take some shots of the birds in action."


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## Neutral (Sep 1, 2015)

Another fresh a7rII review by Steve Huff and the same about AF with Canon lens:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/08/31/the-sony-a7rii-camera-review-a-real-world-look/

"Using it with a Canon lens was also enjoyable. The image above and below were both shot with the Canon 50 1.2 using a Metabones adapter,* and the AF was faster on the A7RII than the Canon 5DIII using the same lens*! Crazy but true, and verified by many who were with me. I loved the 50 1.2 Canon so much on the A7RII I put one in my Amazon cart right after testing it out. I never did buy it as it’s not a cheap lens but one day I just might as it seems to do really well on the A7RII.

Was much more enjoyable to use on the A7RII than it was on my old 5D from long ago (would always front focus or back focus on the 5D for me). This lens keeps its 3D character on the A7RII"


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## arthurbikemad (Sep 1, 2015)

All this smoke blowing up sonys butt yet one thing confuses me, why is it that all the media events I see, MGP and many more... not one A7 in sight? How odd...? Just an observation


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## Neutral (Sep 1, 2015)

arthurbikemad said:


> All this smoke blowing up sonys butt yet one thing confuses me, why is it that all the media events I see, MGP and many more... not one A7 in sight? How odd...? Just an observation



Reason is simple - White Tele L lenses which are better to be used on 1Dx or similar bodies and this will be still the same for some number of years from now.
I have both 1Dx and a7RII and like both and by now a7rII is more universal camera for me than 1Dx .

And where do you see smoke ?
I do not see any smoke, just people starting using a7rII and sharing experience.
As for media events - it is too early for a7rII , just started shipping.
Also let's wait for a7sII and rumored a9.
Things are starting to change now.


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## arthurbikemad (Sep 1, 2015)

You know what I agree with you, and all this smoke  has got my interest, I want an A7R II to go with my 5D3 

Keep pumping out the feedback, it all makes me even more interested, I won't hold off to much longer!


edit: Hummm, been looking at a few new videos about the AF etc, does look GOOD, VERY GOOD!


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## tpatana (Sep 1, 2015)

Neutral said:


> Reason is simple - White Tele L lenses which are better to be used on 1Dx or similar bodies and this will be still the same for some number of years from now.



Because of the size, or why?




> I have both 1Dx and a7RII and like both and by now a7rII is more universal camera for me than 1Dx .



What situations would you definitely prefer Sony? And in what 1Dx?

And my biggest question on mirrorless cameras is the AF for indoor sports. Say HS basketball, would the Sony AF still work on those?


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## tpatana (Sep 1, 2015)

Also, the 5fps is rather slow. Can that be increased if you dial down the resolution?


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## arthurbikemad (Sep 1, 2015)

Same concerns as me, the limited videos online make the AF look great, but I fear I will miss the speed of my DSLR, also I wonder what the new mk2 1DX will be like, I know it's another price hike and size etc etc etc but tech wise.. still the Sony looks good, I'd love to try one out... in time I may take a leap of faith and give one a spin.


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## benperrin (Sep 2, 2015)

arthurbikemad said:


> Same concerns as me, the limited videos online make the AF look great, but I fear I will miss the speed of my DSLR, also I wonder what the new mk2 1DX will be like, I know it's another price hike and size etc etc etc but tech wise.. still the Sony looks good, I'd love to try one out... in time I may take a leap of faith and give one a spin.



So far I'm missing the speed of a dslr however I'm using a commlite adapter which isn't meant to be as good as the metabones 4. The metabones just seems way over-priced to me.


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## Neutral (Sep 2, 2015)

tpatana said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > Reason is simple - White Tele L lenses which are better to be used on 1Dx or similar bodies and this will be still the same for some number of years from now.
> ...



Overall system performance - both are designed to work together.
L type lens mage quality itself combined with the instant and precise AF on native body.
Canon L type tele lens are the best at the moment


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## Neutral (Sep 2, 2015)

tpatana said:


> Neutral said:
> 
> 
> > I have both 1Dx and a7RII and like both and by now a7rII is more universal camera for me than 1Dx .
> ...



1Dx for actions/sport/events where instant and precise continuous AF is required using 24-70, 70-200 and 100-400 L lens.

a7rII now for everything else - this is now just universal camera at all light conditions for stills and not very fast moving objects.
Did not tried a7rII for indoor sports yet as was using 1Dx for that so far and continue to use 
May be I will try at some time using fast native lens , but not sure that it will work well enough.

Attached shot done using 1Dx at ISO12800 with EF 100-400 lens , 1/640, f4.5, no flash.
Here where AF tracking precision was required.
Not sure that it is possible with a7rII with lens selection that available at the moment.


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## bwud (Sep 11, 2015)

About 5 days into my vacation and have yet to pick up the 5D3 except when using it to store my 16-35. 

That being said, I'm probably focusing manually a good 80% of the time - which is a dream with the A7R II (setting aside the horrendous EVF display in low light). In my experience, the AF is really good in good light, but in backlit or other high contrast scenarios, it struggles much more than my canon cameras.

Nice piece of kit, though. As mentioned before, I'm surprisingly already used to the size, and the 5D just feels big (but with better controls, still).


First two are with the 16-35 f/4 L IS, manually focused. Lot of highlight and shadow adjustments in the backlit photo of my wife, and a lot of shadow boosting in the green forground on the second.

Third is with the native 28mm f/2, manually focused (because lets face it, it's anyone's guess where focus is in AF when the little green square covers multiple streets - again focus magnify in the EVF is a dream).


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## meywd (Sep 11, 2015)

bwud said:


> About 5 days into my vacation and have yet to pick up the 5D3 except when using it to store my 16-35.
> 
> That being said, I'm probably focusing manually a good 80% of the time - which is a dream with the A7R II (setting aside the horrendous EVF display in low light). In my experience, the AF is really good in good light, but in backlit or other high contrast scenarios, it struggles much more than my canon cameras.
> 
> ...



I love the third image, where was this taken?


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## bwud (Sep 11, 2015)

Dubrovnik, Croatia.

All of them are, actually. My wife is standing at the right-most side of the round fortress at the bottom right of the wall, and the other was taken slightly south of there (towards the water) looking east (left).


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## tpatana (Sep 11, 2015)

Nice. I was in Dubrovnik -86 or so if I remember correctly. I think I was ~11 or 12 at the time. I think that pic is from the old city? The new part had the beach thingy in the middle. And the ice cream vendor on the beach thought young kid like me don't know how to count, so he tried giving me incorrect amount of change. And local bar had outdoor stage for music, Pet Shop Boys was played by this obvious fake-Pet Shop Boys, although they wore the white scarf to look more authentic. And the opposite side from our hotel, across the beach, had narrow streets and steep hills to climb. Or at least that's how they felt for small kid.

Nice place.


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## that1guyy (Sep 15, 2015)

tpatana said:


> Also, the 5fps is rather slow. Can that be increased if you dial down the resolution?


No.


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## psolberg (Sep 17, 2015)

off course. the days of phase only systems are over. anybody who has had focus shift on a dslr knows why.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 17, 2015)

psolberg said:


> off course. the days of phase only systems are over. anybody who has had focus shift on a dslr knows why.



Only if the contrast detect AF systems work after the lens stops down, which they don't.


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## benperrin (Sep 21, 2015)

Just a quick update on the Sony with the metabones. Whilst the focus accuracy is generally very good I have had several times where the focus stops working all together and even more times where the camera decides to blackout for at least 10 seconds. There are still many issues to be worked out with these cameras.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 21, 2015)

benperrin said:


> Just a quick update on the Sony with the metabones. Whilst the focus accuracy is generally very good I have had several times where the focus stops working all together and even more times where the camera decides to blackout for at least 10 seconds. There are still many issues to be worked out with these cameras.



At which point i refer back to the first answer in the thread............


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## benperrin (Sep 21, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> benperrin said:
> 
> 
> > Just a quick update on the Sony with the metabones. Whilst the focus accuracy is generally very good I have had several times where the focus stops working all together and even more times where the camera decides to blackout for at least 10 seconds. There are still many issues to be worked out with these cameras.
> ...


Yes, there is much bs going around about these systems but make no mistake they are still amazing cameras... when they work.


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## bwud (Sep 21, 2015)

benperrin said:


> Just a quick update on the Sony with the metabones. Whilst the focus accuracy is generally very good I have had several times where the focus stops working all together and even more times where the camera decides to blackout for at least 10 seconds. There are still many issues to be worked out with these cameras.



I thought that was a metabones thing but mine does that occasionally with native glass too. Buggy firmware I hope.

The thing I notice with the adapter more frequently is the camera not knowing the max aperture. It will display -- rather than an f number, and I have to power cycle. It typically happens after the camera sleeps. Maybe it doesn't supply enough power to the adapter to hold the lens info.


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## benperrin (Sep 21, 2015)

bwud said:


> benperrin said:
> 
> 
> > Just a quick update on the Sony with the metabones. Whilst the focus accuracy is generally very good I have had several times where the focus stops working all together and even more times where the camera decides to blackout for at least 10 seconds. There are still many issues to be worked out with these cameras.
> ...



Interesting. Thanks for the info. I haven't noticed any issues with max aperture yet but I have noticed that 1.8 is displayed as 1.7 on the Sony for some reason. The Sony cameras seem to be full of weird issues.


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## bwud (Sep 21, 2015)

benperrin said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > benperrin said:
> ...



I am making the assumption it doesn't know max aperture and thus gets confused based on how you have to "teach" it 3rd (4th?) party glass like Tamron. It needs to learn max aperture before it can properly focus (which is done wide open). I assume once it loses info about an attached lens it needs to reboot. Could be a different reason entirely, but the symptom and solution is consistent: display -- for aperture -> reboot.

The display thing I think has I do with the Sony set for 1/2 stops, not 1/3. 

A funny thing I noticed is that with my EF 16-35 f4L IS, my exif data reads the Sony FE 16-35 OSS. No clue whether that's the camera's doing or the adapter's.


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