# Here are Some XF400/XF405 Specifications [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 11, 2017)

```
We just posted that we didn’t have  any in-depth specifications for the upcoming Canon video products, and voila, we then got some.</p>
<p><strong>Canon XF400/XF405 Specifications:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>1″ CMOS</li>
<li>Dual pixel AF</li>
<li>Wide dynamic range</li>
<li>3 built in ND Filters</li>
<li>Dynamic IS</li>
<li>MPEG4</li>
<li>XF-AVC</li>
<li>4K UHD</li>
<li>4:2:0 8bit 60p 50p 24p onto 2 SD Cards</li>
</ul>
<div>More to come as we hear more.</div>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## neilfisher (Sep 11, 2017)

Seems strange that Canon would introduce 4K to consumers at UHD resolution and not the DCI found in their Cinema and DSLR's?


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## raptor3x (Sep 11, 2017)

Curious about the price, this seems to be a better version of the Sony AX100 but I'm wary that it will be priced much higher.


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## rrcphoto (Sep 11, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> 1″ CMOS
> Dual pixel AF



a home grown 1" CMOS sensor?


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## cpreston (Sep 11, 2017)

That sounds an awful lot like a more camcorder style version of the XC10/15.


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## EduPortas (Sep 11, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We just posted that we didn’t have any in-depth specifications for the upcoming Canon video products, and voila, we then got some.</p>
> <p><strong>Canon XF400/XF405 Specifications:</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li>1″ CMOS</li>
> ...



So where's the pro line of cameras that record 4k?

Ergonomically, I much preferred the XF100-300 form factor. Am I missing something?


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## Tugela (Sep 11, 2017)

cpreston said:


> That sounds an awful lot like a more camcorder style version of the XC10/15.



No, they are the camcorder versions of the C200.


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## cpreston (Sep 11, 2017)

Tugela said:


> cpreston said:
> 
> 
> > That sounds an awful lot like a more camcorder style version of the XC10/15.
> ...



1" sensor, fixed lens. The low bit rate to SD cards, if that is all that is available, makes it a bit less useful than the XC15 as a B cam to the cinema cameras. But the 1" CMOS sensor is much more in line with the XC15 than any other camera.


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## bhf3737 (Sep 11, 2017)

Tugela said:


> cpreston said:
> 
> 
> > That sounds an awful lot like a more camcorder style version of the XC10/15.
> ...



I think from sensor size perspective it is closer to XC series (1-inch, 13-15mm width sensor) while C200 has a Super 35mm sensor.
There are many fixed lens camcorders with this sensor spec on market like Sony PXW-Z150, Panasonic UX-180, etc. Canon XF400 may have partial advantages over those similar products by offering dual-pixel AF and 60P internal recording. The downside is that it seems it does not have full iris/zoom/AF control rings so it may have less appeal to professionals. If the lens is bright (i.e. f/2.8 or close) and wide enough (i.e. about 24mm equivalent at the wide end) I guess it will be a winner for Canon. Price range may be similar to those competing products in the $4K range.


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## mistaspeedy (Sep 11, 2017)

It will cost more, but have less features and performance compared to the competition...
That's the Canon way...

Now Ill go hide in a bunker somwhere


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## raptor3x (Sep 11, 2017)

bhf3737 said:


> There are many fixed lens camcorders with this sensor spec on market like Sony PXW-Z150, Panasonic UX-180, etc. Canon XF400 may have partial advantages over those similar products by offering dual-pixel AF and 60P internal recording.



This is where I'm a bit confused by this announcement because based on the form factor from the pictures it looks like it's more of an AX100 competitor than a true XF305 replacement.


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## Tugela (Sep 11, 2017)

cpreston said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > cpreston said:
> ...



No, they will be using the same processor as the C200, with the exact same codecs, so the overall output modes will be the same (probably not RAW though). They basically will have a similar or better relationship with the C200 that the previous XA/XF cameras had with the C100.

In terms of IQ you should get similar resolution since the number of pixels is the same. The sensor is smaller, but 1" is better than the old sensor size used in those lines, so less purple fringing. For hardware encoded footage IQ is likely to be quite similar to the C200. If you liked the C200 for shooting outside of RAW, you will like these camcorders as well.


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## bhf3737 (Sep 11, 2017)

raptor3x said:


> bhf3737 said:
> 
> 
> > There are many fixed lens camcorders with this sensor spec on market like Sony PXW-Z150, Panasonic UX-180, etc. Canon XF400 may have partial advantages over those similar products by offering dual-pixel AF and 60P internal recording.
> ...



I don't consider AX100 a pro camcorder, as beside other things, for example it shuts off HDMI out when recording internally in 4K, has one SD card slot and limited audio connectivity. Pro spec camcorders, such as UX-180, allow both internal and external recording where external will be with higher depth and bit rate, usually have two card slots and built-in XLR audio connections. I expect XF400 to be in the latter league.


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## Tugela (Sep 11, 2017)

raptor3x said:


> bhf3737 said:
> 
> 
> > There are many fixed lens camcorders with this sensor spec on market like Sony PXW-Z150, Panasonic UX-180, etc. Canon XF400 may have partial advantages over those similar products by offering dual-pixel AF and 60P internal recording.
> ...



Well, I'm not so sure about those pictures, because the XF405 picture is identical to the GX10 picture, except for the model number (the angle of the letters is different from the angle of the "15X optical zoom" logo next to it) and another element near the bottom. So, some photoshopping for sure. The GX10 looks like it is the real one, what you might expect, while the XF405 as shown looks like a mock up.


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## EduPortas (Sep 11, 2017)

Tugela said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > bhf3737 said:
> ...



Yep, the nomenclature makes no sense. 

I'm guessing Canon has something else up their sleeves for the pro ENG crowd. At least I hope so!


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## raptor3x (Sep 11, 2017)

Tugela said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > This is where I'm a bit confused by this announcement because based on the form factor from the pictures it looks like it's more of an AX100 competitor than a true XF305 replacement.
> ...



That makes much more sense, good catch.


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## preppyak (Sep 12, 2017)

raptor3x said:


> Curious about the price, this seems to be a better version of the Sony AX100 but I'm wary that it will be priced much higher.


The AX100 looks like a consumer camcorder (and is priced as such). The XA/XF line from Canon comes with XLR inputs, codecs that lend themselves to professional use, etc. The XA10 being more of a hobbyist/price concious option, the XF being the beginning of the pro-line.

I'd bet the XA line goes $1999 (thats what the XA10, etc came in at), and the XF line is probably $3499-$3999


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## Chaitanya (Sep 12, 2017)

Here is first look video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcesjYF0agU


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## Bernard (Sep 12, 2017)

neilfisher said:


> Seems strange that Canon would introduce 4K to consumers at UHD resolution and not the DCI found in their Cinema and DSLR's?



DCI 4K is not an output format. It's meant to be cropped to UHD (16:9), or anamorphic, or 1.85, etc. No need for any of that here, these are consumer camcorders. 16:9 is what consumers have at home on their televisions (and other screens).


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## Sharlin (Sep 12, 2017)

Bernard said:


> neilfisher said:
> 
> 
> > Seems strange that Canon would introduce 4K to consumers at UHD resolution and not the DCI found in their Cinema and DSLR's?
> ...



Canon considers the XF, and even the XA series, professional camcorders.


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## LDS (Sep 12, 2017)

Bernard said:


> DCI 4K is not an output format. It's meant to be cropped to UHD (16:9), or anamorphic, or 1.85, etc. No need for any of that here, these are consumer camcorders. 16:9 is what consumers have at home on their televisions (and other screens).



AFAIK DCI 4K is the 4K movie standard (see http://dcimovies.com/specification/DCI_DCSS_v12_with_errata_2012-1010.pdf, 4.3) which is "true" 4096x2160. Anamorphic is a different kind of recording/playing which needs special lenses.

Not all these are consumer camcorders, but little need of the higher specs when they are targeted to TV production which may not undergo long post-production cycles (i.e. news), with highly skilled technicians.


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## LDS (Sep 12, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Canon considers the XF, and even the XA series, professional camcorders.



All of them give access to CPS, for example. The Legria/Vixia line does not.


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## rrcphoto (Sep 12, 2017)

I found this interesting:

The XF405 Professional Camcorder features a Canon 1.0-inch 4K UHD CMOS image sensor capable of 4K UHD video capture at 60p and slow motion recording up to 120fps in Full HD, making the XF405 camcorder a strong contender for professional productions, creative fields and more.


I wonder if canon will start using 1" DPAF sensors in the Gx series bodies now?


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## cream (Sep 12, 2017)

While I had previously used the Canon line up previously, when the XF series was originally introduced I felt they were good but over priced compared to what else was available on the market. The XF 400 is nothing more than the evolution of the older XA10 and 20 models. I do hope that the new cameras are priced competitively or they are going to to get quickly looked over by some.


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## crazyrunner33 (Sep 12, 2017)

If this has SDI and XLR, this would be a great run and gun camera for low profile news gathering. The UHD makes it perfect for cutting between medium and wide shots during interviews, and the slowmo can be handy for b-roll.


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## EduPortas (Sep 12, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We just posted that we didn’t have any in-depth specifications for the upcoming Canon video products, and voila, we then got some.</p>
> <p><strong>Canon XF400/XF405 Specifications:</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li>1″ CMOS</li>
> ...



Price for the XF400 will be US $3,000, per Adorama.


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## Bernard (Sep 12, 2017)

LDS said:


> AFAIK DCI 4K is the 4K movie standard (see http://dcimovies.com/specification/DCI_DCSS_v12_with_errata_2012-1010.pdf, 4.3) which is "true" 4096x2160. Anamorphic is a different kind of recording/playing which needs special lenses.



4096x2160 is the sensor resolution used.
The footage can then get cropped to 3840x2160 for UHD (and scaled-down to 1920x1080 for regular HD).
Alternatively, the full 4096 can be used, and the horizontal res can be cropped for 1.85 (standard cinema) or various "flat" widescreen aspect ratios (2:1, 2.4:1).
Anamorphic generally uses the full 2160 height, and some fraction of the width, which depends on the anamorphic ratio of the lenses and the desired output format.

In other words, while cinema-style cameras shoot in 4K DCI (4096x2160), the resulting footage rarely gets shown in 4K DCI outside of an edit suite.


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