# ... the A7rII has killed the Canon 5Ds 50 Megapixel camera.... :-(



## xps (Jun 18, 2015)

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/kai-says-the-a7rii-has-killed-the-canon-5ds-50-megapixel-camera/


I was thinking of ordering an 5DSR (€3700). As it is nearly as expensive as the 7RII (€3500) here in Germany.

But would´nt it be better to wait - for an 5DIV? Maybe the 5DIV will get more updates - I think in one thing Mr. Kai is right: Canon is keeping revolutionary updates back. For their premium camera models


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## Eldar (Jun 18, 2015)

I am getting a git bored with trying to form an opinion, based on two camps of fanboys and all the ranting in between, so I have ordered both to decide for myself. Hopefully the 5DSR is coming this week and I am no.2 in line for the A7RII.


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## WorkonSunday (Jun 18, 2015)

i thought A7rII is not weather sealed? :


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## robber98 (Jun 18, 2015)

WorkonSunday said:


> i thought A7rII is not weather sealed? :



A7rII is weather resistant.


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## xps (Jun 18, 2015)

Eldar said:


> I am getting a git bored with trying to form an opinion, based on two camps of fanboys and all the ranting in between, so I have ordered both to decide for myself. Hopefully the 5DSR is coming this week and I am no.2 in line for the A7RII.



Mr. Eldar, this is the way I will do so too. For me it is not so easy to order both cameras and give one back, but some fanboys in my neighbourhood are buying one. The I will compare them too. And compare them with my 5DIII and an 7RI. 

But I am convinced, Canon is able to do "more". Maybe the 7RII and the coming other Sony sensor based cameras will force Canon to put "more" innovation in their coming products.

I am astonished that the 7R II is so expensive. Almost 4000$ in Germany (3500€) you will have to pay for it. The 5DSR ist actually at 3700€ (4200$).


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## Eldar (Jun 18, 2015)

I will not be able to return one, so its abit costly, but I believe I will keep both anyway. My main reason for getting the A7RII is for its manual focus capability. I expect to have a separate bag with the Zeiss lenses and this camera and use the Canon bodies with my EF lenses.


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## xps (Jun 18, 2015)

Eldar said:


> I will not be able to return one, so its abit costly, but I believe I will keep both anyway. My main reason for getting the A7RII is for its manual focus capability. I expect to have a separate bag with the Zeiss lenses and this camera and use the Canon bodies with my EF lenses.


If you have tested them, please tell us your experiences. I would like to buy the 7RII too, but I can buy just one Camera this year. So it is the best to wait. 
But one thing I can tell you: Try the Batis lenses on the 7RII. Great lens.


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## bitm2007 (Jun 18, 2015)

xps said:


> I am getting a git bored with trying to form an opinion, based on two camps of fanboys and all the ranting in between, so I have ordered both to decide for myself. Hopefully the 5DSR is coming this week and I am no.2 in line for the A7RII.



Is there any loss of image quality, when using the Sony A7 range with a Metabones Canon EF lens adaptor ?.


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## MickDK (Jun 18, 2015)

bitm2007 said:


> Is there any loss of image quality, when using the Sony A7 range with a Metabones Canon EF lens adaptor ?.


No. The adapter does not contain any optical elements.


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## WorkonSunday (Jun 18, 2015)

bitm2007 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > I am getting a git bored with trying to form an opinion, based on two camps of fanboys and all the ranting in between, so I have ordered both to decide for myself. Hopefully the 5DSR is coming this week and I am no.2 in line for the A7RII.
> ...


nope. there is no optical elements in between. but the adaptors/mount manufacturing torlence does vary. my A7r shifts fair abit now after using it with heavier lens like sony's 70-400mm. the shift MAY cause some misalginment i.e. less sharp image, especially towards more extreme corners/edge. but i personally cant tell if the drop in sharpness is just my lens are not good enough or misalignment issue.


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## bitm2007 (Jun 18, 2015)

WorkonSunday said:


> bitm2007 said:
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> > xps said:
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As a landscape photographer corner sharpness is of paramount importance me. What lenses are you using when you experience this ?. I'm particularly interested in whether there maybe any issue with wide angle L lenses.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 18, 2015)

So lemme get this straight. Some guy who performs on a youtube channel where they parody stuff says that camera X "kills" camera Y and people are concerned with it. 

I am not getting this. 

I like watching DRTV. I find it entertaining and often amusing. But I would consider them in the same light as Top Gear when it comes to expressing opinions about their respective stuff. 

As Willy Shakespeare said: Much ado about squat.


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## NorbR (Jun 18, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> So lemme get this straight. Some guy who performs on a youtube channel where they parody stuff says that camera X "kills" camera Y and people are concerned with it.



Oh, but it's even worse. 

Kai wrote a blog post that he titled "Sony a7r II: the Canon 5Ds R *killer*". This has been picked up and transformed into "Sony a7r II *has killed* the Canon 5Ds R". Not bad for a camera that has barely been announced, is not even on the market, and that only a handful of people have actually had the opportunity to try. But it has gone for the kill already. The deed is done. Murder, she wrote. Your shiny new 5Ds is now dead. Sorry.

Of course if you read what Kai actually wrote, it may be another story. Things like:

_"Different products, different targets. For sure, someone will be eagle-eyed enough to spot that they're not meant to compete with each other: the 5Ds R is meant for professional photographers, mainly current Canon users, and for a small number of enthusiasts who want to have incredibly high resolution stills images and not much else; the a7R II is meant for enthusiasts who want to have incredibly high resolution stills images, video and a lot more."_

or

_"I'm not going to say that the Sony a7R II is a better camera than the Canon 5Ds R, I'm not comparing the cameras as such. But what should be compared are the approaches of the respective manufacturers of each camera. [...] When you look at what Canon are coming up with and then what Sony are doing, you can't help but think that Canon are holding something back, playing it safe."_

Fair points imho, and far from "Camera A has killed Camera B".

But then again I clearly have a lot to learn about writing titles for blog posts ... like when someone can take an interview where a Sony exec essentially says "Yep, we hear people complaining about lossy RAW, if enough of them complain we may do something about it, some day, and technically it could be done in firmware" and turn it to a "Uncompressed RAW coming soon in firmware update !!" headline. :


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## zlatko (Jun 18, 2015)

Ridiculous headline.


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## Click (Jun 18, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Ridiculous headline.



+1


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## Sporgon (Jun 18, 2015)

More interested in the tech than the picture. A highly vocal minority.


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## NancyP (Jun 18, 2015)

Who can tell? One camera has just started shipping, one camera is not yet available. I want to see both out in the real world before I make any decision.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 18, 2015)

Lemme tell you about that new Ford that is coming out in 2017. It sucks and will be the death of FoMoCo.


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## Pinchers of Peril (Jun 18, 2015)

Eldar said:


> I am getting a git bored with trying to form an opinion, based on two camps of fanboys and all the ranting in between, so I have ordered both to decide for myself. Hopefully the 5DSR is coming this week and I am no.2 in line for the A7RII.



Yes, please let us know what you think after using both of them. Curious to see how they compare in "real world" shooting


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## Eldar (Jun 18, 2015)

Pinchers of Peril said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > I am getting a git bored with trying to form an opinion, based on two camps of fanboys and all the ranting in between, so I have ordered both to decide for myself. Hopefully the 5DSR is coming this week and I am no.2 in line for the A7RII.
> ...


Picked up the 5DSR today (the first test shots of The Local Lion are done ), but the A7RII is still weeks away, so there will be some time before I can do any comparisons. 

First 5 minute look at the output from the 5DSR is very promising. It seems to be over exposing a bit, but that may be a minor adjustment. The sound of the mirror will delight the wedding photographers. Very soft sound. Very nice to have EC in manual mode with Auto-ISO. The first shadows look very nice at 100ISO and resolution is stunning.

So regarding the title of this thread ... Not sure that will happen ... 

Now I have others things to do, so have a nice evening


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## Maiaibing (Jun 18, 2015)

NorbR said:


> a Sony exec essentially says "Yep, we hear people complaining about lossy RAW, if enough of them complain we may do something about it, some day, and technically it could be done in firmware" and turn it to a "Uncompressed RAW coming soon in firmware update !!" headline. :



1) Uncompressed RAW would merit a big headline as no one has tried this yet.
2) It would in fact also be pretty stupid and probably merit another big headline just for this reason .


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## privatebydesign (Jun 18, 2015)

bitm2007 said:


> Is there any loss of image quality, when using the Sony A7 range with a Metabones Canon EF lens adaptor ?.





MickDK said:


> bitm2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any loss of image quality, when using the Sony A7 range with a Metabones Canon EF lens adaptor ?.
> ...





WorkonSunday said:


> bitm2007 said:
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> 
> > xps said:
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Yes there is an IQ hit even with glassless adapters, especially in the corners of high MP sensors where the lens and sensor are designed for the same size image circle (like EF lenses onto the FF Sony's).

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/09/there-is-no-free-lunch-episode-763-lens-adapters


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## privatebydesign (Jun 18, 2015)

Eldar said:


> Pinchers of Peril said:
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> > Eldar said:
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Eldar, I told you to have some patience didn't I? I am so glad you are finding positive elements from the files, I could feel your disappointment at announcement time from 1000's of miles away ;D

Looking forwards to seeing some of those files.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 18, 2015)

bitm2007 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > I am getting a git bored with trying to form an opinion, based on two camps of fanboys and all the ranting in between, so I have ordered both to decide for myself. Hopefully the 5DSR is coming this week and I am no.2 in line for the A7RII.
> ...



Possibly at the edges of the image, the light rays may strike the photo sensors at a different angle compared to a native Sony lens. The camera expects rays to hit at a certain angle, and varies the amplification of the outer pixels to try and even the light levels by boosting amplification at the sensor edges. 

I doubt that most would not detect a difference, but until people have tested it, its one of the unknowns.


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## Orangutan (Jun 18, 2015)

Since we're on the topic of lens mount adapters, I have a question for the engineers and optics geeks out there. What's the feasibility of releasing a body (or variant) that has no native lens mount, but is specifically designed to accept mount adapters for any of the major lens lines? The idea is that it would be wider than any of the current FF lens mounts, and otherwise designed to avoid the current problems of lens adapters.

It seems this would be easier with mirrorless than reflex.


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## fragilesi (Jun 18, 2015)

Isn't this kind of headline pretty much par for the course now in the "media"? Seems to me in magazines they often have teasers like "Is this the new xyz killer?". It draws in extra hits / readers. It means the cube root of diddly squat minus 10.


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## leGreve (Jun 18, 2015)

NorbR said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > So lemme get this straight. Some guy who performs on a youtube channel where they parody stuff says that camera X "kills" camera Y and people are concerned with it.
> ...



Actually a Sony rep did say, to the camera, that the fixed the raw issue.... it's now 14 bit, just like Canons, and is compressed raw, just like Canons.

I see a lot of people naively believing that Canons still raw files are uncompressed, nothing could be farther from the truth. They are however, just like Sony's raw files, lossless.

This is true in the case of the A7r II


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## privatebydesign (Jun 18, 2015)

leGreve said:


> NorbR said:
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> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
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Both Canon and Sony (and pretty much everybody else's) RAW files are compressed, Canon RAW files use lossless compression, Sony RAW files do not.


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## leGreve (Jun 18, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> leGreve said:
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> > NorbR said:
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Their promise to do so in the near future is enough for me....


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## YuengLinger (Jun 18, 2015)

If anything kills the 5Ds, it will be limited appeal. Seems too narrowly tailored to studio work and, not as much, to some landscape. Basically, as I understand the specs, with the low ceiling on the ISO, the 5Ds will shine only with great light (meaning, in many cases, flash/strobe) or a tripod.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 18, 2015)

leGreve said:


> privatebydesign said:
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> > leGreve said:
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Your belief in their comment that they might change that at some future date via a firmware upgrade is one thing, stating "_They are however, just like Sony's raw files, lossless."_ is quite another. One is a hope, the other is factually incorrect.

As is your original edited comment _"Actually they do now........"_!


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## LDS (Jun 18, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> Seems too narrowly tailored to studio work and, not as much, to some landscape.



Do you know how many professionals do a lot of money with that kind of photography? It's the whole ads/fashion/arts market. Those, unlike wildlife/sport/news photographers, are very hard to replace with some semipro around, exactly because you need a studio and more equipment (and the skills to use it proficiently) than just a camera and a few lenses. Not a bad market to aim for at all...


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## LDS (Jun 18, 2015)

xps said:


> I was thinking of ordering an 5DSR (€3700).
> But would´nt it be better to wait - for an 5DIV?



It looks people don't understand that despite the "5D" main number the S and non-S camera are very different beasts, different philosophies aimed at different kind of photography. Probably Canon should have called them in a different way.

Should you buy a 5DS or 5D MK IV? Only you know what you use the camera for, and what you do with your images. They are not overlapping cameras. 

If you feel the need to always own the "latest and the best", well, then only the next camera you still don't own it's what you're looking for


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2015)

leGreve said:


> Actually a Sony rep did say, to the camera, that the fixed the raw issue.... it's now 14 bit, just like Canons, and is compressed raw, just like Canons.
> 
> I see a lot of people naively believing that Canons still raw files are uncompressed, nothing could be farther from the truth. *They are however, just like Sony's raw files, lossless.*
> 
> This is true in the case of the A7r II



No. 



leGreve said:


> Their promise to do so in the near future is enough for me....



Perhaps the statement of one engineer, who was apparently mistaken about some of the camera's basic specs, that they might consider doing so at some unspecified future time is enough for you. That's a personal decision.


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## Pookie (Jun 18, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Ridiculous headline.



Thought for sure this was Dudbert.


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## YuengLinger (Jun 18, 2015)

LDS said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Seems too narrowly tailored to studio work and, not as much, to some landscape.
> ...



I fully expect the 5Ds to do please pros who shoot subjects especially suitable to medium format cameras, but who want something smaller and cheaper and with more lenses.

However, for better or worse, the "ads/fashion/arts market" is a very small pool. A camera like the 5DIII, which I think is underappreciated, appeals not only to pros in all the types of photography mentioned, plus wedding photographers, plus enthusiasts, plus people who just want a great, incredibly flexible photo making machine.

Clearly, Canon is putting the 5Ds out there as a specialist's tool, otherwise its virtues would have been incorporated in the upcoming 5DIV.


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## YellowJersey (Jun 18, 2015)

My two cents: wait for the 5DmkIV and 6DmkII and see what happens. The 5Ds(r) just came out, the A7rII was just announced, a 5DmkIV is coming in the next 7 months or so, and at this stage of the game I'd say it's too early to say which is best for you. 

I think there's a lot of hype and emotion right now that's clouding people's judgments along with a lot of incomplete information.

Wait until the cameras are out, the reviews posted, users share their experiences with all of them, tempers cool, and the dust settles. Then see which one suits you best.


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## YuengLinger (Jun 18, 2015)

YellowJersey said:


> My two cents: wait for the 5DmkIV and 6DmkII and see what happens. The 5Ds(r) just came out, the A7rII was just announced, a 5DmkIV is coming in the next 7 months or so, and at this stage of the game I'd say it's too early to say which is best for you.
> 
> I think there's a lot of hype and emotion right now that's clouding people's judgments along with a lot of incomplete information.
> 
> Wait until the cameras are out, the reviews posted, users share their experiences with all of them, tempers cool, and the dust settles. Then see which one suits you best.



Right. No passion. No enthusiasm. What would be the point of a Rumors forum, and where else would we have this much fun?


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## YellowJersey (Jun 18, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> YellowJersey said:
> 
> 
> > My two cents: wait for the 5DmkIV and 6DmkII and see what happens. The 5Ds(r) just came out, the A7rII was just announced, a 5DmkIV is coming in the next 7 months or so, and at this stage of the game I'd say it's too early to say which is best for you.
> ...



By all means, speculate away and have fun. But unless you have money to burn or need a camera right now, I wouldn't be so hasty to spend $3000 and up before all the options and information are out there and known.


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> YellowJersey said:
> 
> 
> > My two cents: wait for the 5DmkIV and 6DmkII and see what happens. The 5Ds(r) just came out, the A7rII was just announced, a 5DmkIV is coming in the next 7 months or so, and at this stage of the game I'd say it's too early to say which is best for you.
> ...



So why are you waiting? Have you got your Sony yet?


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## canonvoir (Jun 19, 2015)

zlatko said:


> dilbert said:
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> 
> > YellowJersey said:
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I purchased an a7ii and my a7rii is on preoorder. I have 7 native FE lenses (two of seven are Batis lenses on preorder). I am putting my money where my mouth is. I won't touch my Canon gear (minus my lenses) until football season kicks off.


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## YellowJersey (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> YellowJersey said:
> 
> 
> > My two cents: wait for the 5DmkIV and 6DmkII and see what happens. The 5Ds(r) just came out, the A7rII was just announced, a 5DmkIV is coming in the next 7 months or so, and at this stage of the game I'd say it's too early to say which is best for you.
> ...



Anything's possible. I'd say the 5Ds(r) is a potential sign that Canon may be getting its act together. Maybe.


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## Solar Eagle (Jun 19, 2015)

xps said:


> But I am convinced, Canon is able to do "more".



Of course they can, but that's not how industry works. There was technology for flat panel TV's in the 70's, but none of that came to market until decades later. Every new generation of TV that comes out only comes out after the previous generation has been milked. 3D after 1080, but nobody took to 3D so now its curved panel. 4K is out, but not until after everybody bought 1080. The camera industry is no different. Canon can make a 150 megapixel FF sensor if they wanted to, but that's makes no sense.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Why wait for a Canon update?
> 
> We've seen what Canon does with their updates - as little as possible.



How exactly are you quantifying "as little as possible?" 

Do you believe for example that 51MP is as low resolution as canon could possibly made the 5DS? That they can't have produced an AF unit with fewer than 61 dedicated PDAF sensors? 

While that may be true, I doubt it. But we'll see if the 5DS represents the baseline for all future canon offerings.


Personally, the change from 5D3 to 5D3 was hardly minimal.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jun 19, 2015)

canonvoir said:


> zlatko said:
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> > dilbert said:
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Do you notice a big difference between the Sony A7ii and your canon? What would you say are the main advantages of the Sony - the reasons why you won't touch your Canon until the start of the football season?


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## xps (Jun 19, 2015)

Solar Eagle said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > But I am convinced, Canon is able to do "more".
> ...



You are right. The market analysts are saying, which are the optimal improvements to maximise the profit. If an competitor makes an big step foreward, they will do so too. But if no one does, small improvements are enough. I visited some lectures about this topic some years ago. And market & profit analysis are very difficult and costly


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## xps (Jun 19, 2015)

YellowJersey said:


> My two cents: wait for the 5DmkIV and 6DmkII and see what happens. The 5Ds(r) just came out, the A7rII was just announced, a 5DmkIV is coming in the next 7 months or so, and at this stage of the game I'd say it's too early to say which is best for you.
> 
> I think there's a lot of hype and emotion right now that's clouding people's judgments along with a lot of incomplete information.
> 
> Wait until the cameras are out, the reviews posted, users share their experiences with all of them, tempers cool, and the dust settles. Then see which one suits you best.



+1
I will do so too. Waiting some month until the first MkIV or 6DII tests are out. Then the price of the A7RII will be sunk too (3500€! recently in Germany).


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## Maiaibing (Jun 19, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Personally, the change from 5D3 to 5D3 was hardly minimal.



Actually less than minimal I would say. But of course I never even bought one so what do I know? ;D


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## xps (Jun 19, 2015)

YellowJersey said:


> dilbert said:
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> 
> > YellowJersey said:
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I hope you are right. The growing number of better bodies of all camera manufacturer will hopefully end in rising efforts of Canon to get back in their leading position.
If you read german magazines, like Color foto, the test results of Nikon and Sony and so one are MUCH better than the results from Canon. I heard Canons analysts do not see any reason to make the next big steps in IQ as their products sell well, but maybe they are going to miss the train


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## fragilesi (Jun 19, 2015)

xps said:


> I hope you are right. The growing number of better bodies of all camera manufacturer will hopefully end in rising efforts of Canon to get back in their leading position.
> If you read german magazines, like Color foto, the test results of Nikon and Sony and so one are MUCH better than the results from Canon. I heard Canons analysts do not see any reason to make the next big steps in IQ as their products sell well, but maybe they are going to miss the train



Do you have a link where these magazines do a review and state outright that the Nikon and Sony bodies are "MUCH better" than Canon overall?


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## johnnycash (Jun 19, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Ridiculous headline.



Only someone who would want to hurt Canon 5DS would actually copy & paste this headline.


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## xps (Jun 19, 2015)

johnnycash said:


> zlatko said:
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> 
> > Ridiculous headline.
> ...



Sir, this was really not my intention! I just want to know, which Cam to buy.


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## robbinzo (Jun 19, 2015)

xps said:


> johnnycash said:
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> > zlatko said:
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Everyone's a critic.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2015)

xps said:


> johnnycash said:
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> 
> > zlatko said:
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So read the headline. The 5Ds has been killed. No point in buying one. No point at all.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> 3kramd5 said:
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> > dilbert said:
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So scaling a sensor (if that is indeed what they did, which I doubt since the 7D2 process creates split pixels for DPAF purposes, and there's no indication the 5DS has split pixels) = as little as possible? Would it have been better for them to re-design the body, perhaps necessitating a host of new accessories?



dilbert said:


> The *only* new features that Canon added with the 5Ds were USB 3.0 and a JPEG crop mode for 1.3x and 1.6x image. The sensor just has more megapixels - that's not a new feature.



Had it 4K (a resolution increase to an existing capability) would that have been a feature?



dilbert said:


> Are you going to use either of those new features?



No, I won't use crop mode nor USB since I use card readers, assuming I take delivery of my 5DS. I would, however, use the feature for which I ordered it: the high-resolution sensor. If all goes well with the A7RII (which I also have on order), I may use it instead for that purpose.



dilbert said:


> > Personally, the change from 5D3 to 5D3 was hardly minimal.
> 
> 
> 
> You should proof read your posts



LOL! I stand corrected. The change from 5D3 to 5D3 was minimal by definition.


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## Sporgon (Jun 19, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> dilbert said:
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> 
> > > Personally, the change from 5D3 to 5D3 was hardly minimal.
> ...



Ah-ha - but what if you set up two tests over the inter web, one to thoroughly disadvantage the 5DIII, and the other to enhance the cameras best points ? 

Then there would be a change


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## privatebydesign (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> 3kramd5 said:
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> > dilbert said:
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No it is not, they are completely different and Canon have said so. Besides, the empirical results demonstrate they are not even close to each other.


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> YellowJersey said:
> 
> 
> > My two cents: wait for the 5DmkIV and 6DmkII and see what happens. The 5Ds(r) just came out, the A7rII was just announced, a 5DmkIV is coming in the next 7 months or so, and at this stage of the game I'd say it's too early to say which is best for you.
> ...



Have you got your Sony yet?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> The 5Ds 50.6MP sensor is simply a full frame version of what's already available elsewhere in Canon's lineup (the 7D Mark II).



Oh, ok. The a7RII 42.4 MP sensor is simply a full frame version of what's already available elsewhere in Sony's lineup, except that it's had a substantial amount of resolution taken away, and they have much better sensor tech available but they're holding it back to milk their customers and force them to pay top dollar for old tech. Total innovation fail. 




dilbert said:


> You should proof read your posts



You should check your posts for accuracy. I'll take a few typos any day over your egregious factual and conceptual errors.


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > The 5Ds 50.6MP sensor is simply a full frame version of what's already available elsewhere in Canon's lineup (the 7D Mark II).
> ...



About milking customers, how about paying more and getting less:
- 24-70/4 with 3.84% barrel distortion at 24 and 3% pincushion distortion at 70, and costs $200 more than Canon's;
- 70-200/4 that weighs 80g more than Canon's, is bigger than Canon's, costs $300 more than Canon's; and despite the new A7 cameras having in-body stabilization, you still have to pay for the OSS;
- Zeiss isn't helping with the 85/1.8 Batis that costs 3X what Canon's 85/1.8 costs and has *12X as much distortion* as Canon's.

About holding back, here are a few things Sony is holding back:
- missing 24-70/2.8 ... but who uses those anyway?;
- missing 70-200/2.8 ... ditto;
- missing 50/1.4 & 50/1.2; 
- missing all primes over 90mm (100mm through 800mm);
- missing fisheye, T-S lenses, etc.
- missing radio-control flash system.

And Sony is so busy innovating that they don't even have time to make an EF to FE lens adapter to make up for all of the lenses missing in their system. Instead, they're making AF speed claims for a 3d party's EF to Fe adapter.

I do like the _idea_ of the A7 camera series, but the system leaves a lot to be desired and all of that sensor "innovation" doesn't make up for it.


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## danski0224 (Jun 19, 2015)

Where's the like button?


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## fragilesi (Jun 19, 2015)

zlatko

Sorry my friend but you just don't get it do you? Lens innovation doesn't matter because you can get that Metabones adaptor to use decent lenses with the Sony . . . 

And it really is a professional setup because when something goes wrong you can get support from Sony, Metabones *and* Canon which must of course be three times as good as just getting support from just one organisation ;D

<<<Rings Sony>>>
Customer: "Hi Sony my camera doesn't seem to focus properly even though I've got the right Metabones adaptor and a top notch Canon L-Series lens".
Sony: "No worries, that'll be a problem with the Metabones adaptor, give them a call".

<<<Rings Metabones>>>
Customer: "Hi Metabones . . . "
Metabones: "No worries, that'll be a problem with the Sony camera or maybe you could send the lens back to Canon for servicing.

<<<Rings Canon>>>
Customer: "Hi Canon . . ."
Canon: "Guys, we've got another one wanting to buy a refurb"


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

fragilesi said:


> zlatko
> 
> Sorry my friend but you just don't get it do you? Lens innovation doesn't matter because you can get that Metabones adaptor to use decent lenses with the Sony . . .
> 
> ...



Just what I need ... 3X support. Sweet!


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2015)

Naaah, it's not about the system, it's all about the sensor. 



fragilesi said:


> <<<Rings Sony>>>



"Send us your camera. We'll update you on the status in approximately four weeks."




fragilesi said:


> <<<Rings Metabones>>>



First, you have to discover their phone number, which they don't provide on their contact page.


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



So, did you buy your Sony yet?


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## YuengLinger (Jun 20, 2015)

Solar Eagle said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > But I am convinced, Canon is able to do "more".
> ...



There might have been "technology...in the 70's," but there weren't the right transistors, CPU's, LCD's, or equipment to manufacture any of it. Unless, maybe, it was all sitting in Sony's secret warehouses on the dark side of the moon...


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## psolberg (Jun 22, 2015)

I think for the landscape user, if sony ships lossless raw via firmware it very much has considering you can mount all the glass via adapters and fast AF isn't needed for this crowd.

However one thing is for sure even if you are not getting one: everybody is talking sony and basically looking at the canon sensor as an oversized ancient sensor created only to please somebody who needed to say "hey we got high MP too". Canon missed the boat in 4K again, missed the boat in dynamic range, again, and missed the boat on low light performance, again...at least according to what we know so far but that is the point: sony stole the show. 

If the 5Dmk4 is nothing but another low MP body in the 20's canon is asking for compromises in noise, DR and video just for a marginal gain in detail and probably only at low ISOs before canon's high noise creeps in destroying any real gains. If sony ships that firmware for lossless compression, it is over. As great as I think the prospect of 50MPs raws are, there is just no sane way to justify the canon loses just to get that extra few details. Sony simply created the most versatile and balanced sensor period.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 22, 2015)

psolberg said:


> If sony ships that firmware for lossless compression, it is over.



In before Neuro: YAPODFC.

I kinda doubt lossless compression from Sony will cause a mass exodus from canon. After all, it's already available with a sony sensor from Nikon.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 22, 2015)

<everybody is talking sony and basically looking at the canon sensor as an oversized ancient sensor created only to please somebody who needed to say "hey we got high MP too".>

I honestly don't think anyone is saying that. The sensor in the 50 MP camera is the exact same size as any other FF sensor.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 22, 2015)

<If the 5Dmk4 is nothing but another low MP body in the 20's canon is asking for compromises in noise,>

That doesn't make any sense either.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> psolberg said:
> 
> 
> > If sony ships that firmware for lossless compression, it is over.
> ...



+1

I hope that was just hyperbole but sadly, I think he actually believes that tripe.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 2, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Solar Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > xps said:
> ...



Its tough to separate the gimmicks from decent advances, particularly from reading advertising and spec sheets. I take a wait and see approach. I bought a Panasonic LCD TV a couple of years back after they started to slide and cut prices. First, I brought home a top of the line Samsung 3D model. I did not like so many things about it, but the shiny screen that picked up every reflection was the final straw, so it went back after 2 weeks. The Panasonic has a matte screen, and IPS panel, and the remote is much easier to use too. Little things like a much faster processor that makes use of the internet videos much faster and easier add up. You have to hand it to Samsung though, they are selling while everyone else is struggling.


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