# Confirmation of Upcoming Product Announcements



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 16, 2016)

```
<p>There is more <a href="http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/post-832.html">confirmation over at Digicame-Info</a> of all the products we’ve said would be announced next week, nothing is a surprise if you’ve been on this site over the last couple of months. We’re still trying to dig for any other products that could appear for Photokina. We think if there is anything else to come, it’s likely for the PowerShot line.</p>
<p>Products to be announced next week.</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-specifications-and-image/">Canon EOS 5D Mark IV</a></li>
<li>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV w/24-105mm f/4L IS II</li>
<li>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV w/24-70mm f/4L IS</li>
<li>Canon BG-E20 Battery Grip</li>
<li>Canon W-E1 Wifi Adaptor</li>
<li>Canon EOS 7D Mark II w/W-E1</li>
<li>Canon EOS 7D Mark II w/18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM</li>
<li>Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II</li>
<li>Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III</li>
</ul>
<p>As always, thanks for reading Canon Rumors, it means a lot to us. We hope to have a lot more to report over the next 10 days or so.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Dave Del Real (Aug 16, 2016)

No more info on the 7D Mark II firmware update????


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## Chaitanya (Aug 16, 2016)

I hope 5D mk 4 keeps the LP-E6 battery just for the sake of upgraders.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 16, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> No more info on the 7D Mark II firmware update????



That stuff is so hard to get leaks on, it's not part of the "sales team".


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## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> I hope 5D mk 4 keeps the LP-E6 battery just for the sake of upgraders.



Since the body isn't likely to change, the battery form factor wont either. It will be the newer LP-E6N version however. Same battery, backwards compatible, just higher capacity. My 5DSR uses the newer ones but also works fine with the older. The newer batteries are needed to keep up with the newer, more power hungry processors


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## mclaren777 (Aug 16, 2016)

What are people expecting from this 7D2 firmware?


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## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

By the way, now that Canon has won this year's EISA Awards for lens (35L Mk II) where's my damn 50L Mk II announcement so they can win with that one next year? LOL I'm getting impatient


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## Dave Del Real (Aug 16, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> Dave Del Real said:
> 
> 
> > No more info on the 7D Mark II firmware update????
> ...



Ah, makes sense.


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## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

mclaren777 said:


> What are people expecting from this 7D2 firmware?



I would guess the high hope is that some flavor of 4k gets put into firmware. It certainly has the processing power to do it. Probably not 60fps 4k like the DX2 because no CFast, but something along those lines. They leave the 4K out of the 80D and make the 7D2 more attractive to video users.


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## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

Dutch_Snapper said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, now that Canon has won this year's EISA Awards for lens (35L Mk II) where's my damn 50L Mk II announcement so they can win with that one next year? LOL I'm getting impatient
> ...



You wont get a 50L prime with IS. 35L II doesn't have it.


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## bsbeamer (Aug 16, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> mclaren777 said:
> 
> 
> > What are people expecting from this 7D2 firmware?
> ...




7D2 with 4K would probably be a great "B" cam to a 5D4 with 4K... so Canon likely won't do it. Personally, would love the extended reach with a 7D2 with 4K for some work.


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## mclaren777 (Aug 16, 2016)

I don't see any reason why Canon would upgrade the 7D2 to shoot 4K video.

Even if the camera could do it well, adding this feature doesn't exactly generate meaningful revenue.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 16, 2016)

Its actually five items which compares to five at Photokina 2014 for DSLRs. 

2014 

Canon 7D MKII
BG-E16
EF 400mm f4 DO IS USM
EF 24-105mm f3.5-5.6 IS STM
EF-S 24mm f2.8 STM

2016

Canon 5D MKIV
BG-E20
W-E1 Wi-Fi 
EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM II
EF 16-35mm f2.8L USM III

I'm sure were see Power Shot cameras (the G7 X came in 2014) and maybe something in printers.


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## sunnyVan (Aug 16, 2016)

I have higher expectation for the 24-105ii than the 5dmk4. I'm probably in the minority.


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## ahsanford (Aug 16, 2016)

Whoa -- two new L zooms at the same time? Yahtzee.

I think we were expecting the 24-105L II, but the 16-35 f/2.8L III is not exactly a kitting-grade lens. Thought they'd save that for a separate announcement.

Also, is it a new grip just because of the new battery, or is some 'new hotness' feature of the 5D4 driving that? (backlit buttons or 7D2-style AF adjuster joystick, perhaps?)

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 16, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> I have higher expectation for the 24-105ii than the 5dmk4. I'm probably in the minority.



Not so sure. There is far more room to reasonably improve on the original 24-105 than there is on the 5D3, IMHO. 

Other than a magical fairy dust sensor improvements people are hoping for (which I don't believe are particularly 'reasonable' or will truly change their photography that much) or the expected feature onslaught of 4K / DPAF / anti-flicker / touchscreen / wifi etc., I don't see the core 5D3 stills photography experience being revolutionized with the 5D4 so much as nicely iteratively improved. It'll be a great camera and it will sell well, but it won't catch the Yeti in total darkness, it won't make subject's eyes bluer, and it won't feel better in the hands. It'll be 'next year's model' (so to speak) and hit the marks it should.

In contrast, the original 24-105L is the classic example of why I tend to avoid 4x+ zooms. Unlike other 4x+ zooms that have done well (the 100-400L II) or decently (70-300L) when compared to more traditional 2-3x zooms, the 24-105 is a full letter grade worse than the various 24-70s out there. There is tremendous room to improve that lens, IMHO, and those who have been pining for it have something to get really excited about.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> the 16-35 f/2.8L III is not exactly a kitting-grade lens. Thought they'd save that for a separate announcement.



Also seems a bit wide for a kit lens (which should cover "general purpose").


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## ahsanford (Aug 16, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > the 16-35 f/2.8L III is not exactly a kitting-grade lens. Thought they'd save that for a separate announcement.
> ...



Clarification: I'm not implying the 16-35 will be kitted. I'm saying all eyes will be on 'Gorgeous' (5D4) and who Gorgeous is bringing to the Oscars (the new kit lens, the 24-105L II).

The 16-35 f/2.8L III, a _really_ important lens for the event/sports/reportage camp and possibly Canon's first UWA zoom with low coma for the astro crowd, will likely get steamrolled in the wake of the 5D4 press. I just think it might make more sense to make a separate splash about it later.

- A


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## doog (Aug 16, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > I hope 5D mk 4 keeps the LP-E6 battery just for the sake of upgraders.
> ...



I have a scramble of LP-6 and LP-6N (5D3 and 7D2 bodies, grips). There's negligible difference in capacity. Didn't I read ...somewhere? (OK, I just disqualified myself) that the new-model battery might be more compliant with fire-safety regs?


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## nightscape123 (Aug 16, 2016)

I know i'm in the minority here but i'm much more excited for the lens announcements. 

I have really high hopes for the 24-105 II. Better IQ, less distortion, better bokeh, better starburst, less lens creep. The original is a highly versatile lens but it can be improved on in pretty much every category. 

The 16-35 III i'm hoping for a canon lens that finally has low coma. I gave up and got the tamron 15-30 which is spectacular in IQ, but its size and lack of filters are a big drawback over canon lenses. 

These are two lenses that I can easily see myself selling off existing lenses for, which will be the first time i've done that.


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## wsmith96 (Aug 16, 2016)

I think that both lens announcements are the perfect companion for the 5DIV. I've got the current 24-105 and it's a good lens, but I'd much rather have the 24-70 2.8 for the reasons Ahsanford alluded to. I'm expecting Canon to produce the same stellar results they have been providing lately with lens updates which will make the 24-105 II a fantastic kit lens and a good alternative to the 24-70 2.8.


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## Dave Del Real (Aug 16, 2016)

mclaren777 said:


> I don't see any reason why Canon would upgrade the 7D2 to shoot 4K video.
> 
> Even if the camera could do it well, adding this feature doesn't exactly generate meaningful revenue.



Thanks for raining on my parade...

I think it would be dumb on Canon's part if they don't include 4K video in the firmware update. Makes no sense that they wouldn't. Direct hit to the Nikon D500, and becomes a great "B" cam to either the 5D Mark IV or 1DX Mark II - or even the C100 II or C300 II.


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## frankchn (Aug 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> The 16-35 f/2.8L III, a _really_ important lens for the event/sports/reportage camp and possibly Canon's first UWA zoom with low coma for the astro crowd, will likely get steamrolled in the wake of the 5D4 press. I just think it might make more sense to make a separate splash about it later.



True, but we are talking about a $2000 MSRP lens that is fairly specialist here. I am guessing the people who need/want it will jump on it even if Canon just puts it on its online store one day with no announcement whatsoever.


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## wsmith96 (Aug 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> The 16-35 f/2.8L III, a _really_ important lens for the event/sports/reportage camp
> - A



I agree with you. I would expect the sports and news shooters to jump on this lens. As for the astro crowd, once you are getting into this (expected) price range, I would think people would just switch to a prime lens.


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## unfocused (Aug 16, 2016)

mclaren777 said:


> What are people expecting from this 7D2 firmware?



I'm expecting that it will primarily focus on software implementation of the new wi-fi card. At a minimum they need to add basic wi-fi functionality to the menu. Extra points if they actually make it intuitive, easy to use and offer some added in-camera editing capabilities. 



Dave Del Real said:


> mclaren777 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see any reason why Canon would upgrade the 7D2 to shoot 4K video.
> ...



That assumes that Canon believes Nikon's inclusion of 4K video in the D500 merits a competitive response. The fact that they developed a wi-fi workaround and are essentially giving it away leads me to believe they view the absence of wi-fi capability in the 7D II to be far more of a competitive problem than the absence of 4K video. In all honestly, if they were that concerned about 4K video, they would have put it into the 80D, which is a much more video oriented camera than the 7DII.


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## sunnyVan (Aug 16, 2016)

I totally agree with you. That's why I owned the 24-105 twice and both times I just had to sell them due to an unwillingness to compromise IQ. 

I'm not an engineer but I'm sure 24-105 for such a large range is extremely difficult to design. I don't need the 24-105ii to be perfect throughout entire focal range. What I care about is 24-50 and then 100. 







ahsanford said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > I have higher expectation for the 24-105ii than the 5dmk4. I'm probably in the minority.
> ...


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## Daan Stam (Aug 16, 2016)

i am going to be very unrealistic here
if they would anounce a c100 mk III with 4k 60p and 1080 120/240p they could put 4k 30p in in the 7d mark II and 80d and maybe c-log? and 5d mark IV with c-log, 4k 60p and dpaf and a film/firmware update for the c300 mk II all with whatever limitations ofcourse 
with that they could at least compete with the d500 and fs5 and some other cameras
i know this is not going to happen but that would be awsome and really make canon the video champ


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## ahsanford (Aug 16, 2016)

wsmith96 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > The 16-35 f/2.8L III, a _really_ important lens for the event/sports/reportage camp
> ...



Ah, but that's the rub. Zoom or prime, name one canon lens wider than 35mm that is f/2.8 or faster that has low coma. The 24-70L II is really the only move there, and I presume the astro camp wants wider or faster than that.

So every time a new wide / fast lens gets offered by anyone, it gets the astro camp's hopes up. This one is no different. 

- A


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## rs (Aug 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Also, is it a new grip just because of the new battery, or is some 'new hotness' feature of the 5D4 driving that? (backlit buttons or 7D2-style AF adjuster joystick, perhaps?)
> 
> - A



Unless all the lower sections of the camera have identical dimensions to the 5D III like the 5D S/R do (and like the 20D/30D/40D/50D are all common too), it will necessitate a new grip.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Aug 16, 2016)

The new 24-105L II makes last year's 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 STM even more of a head scratcher. For full frame shooters, I've had a hard time recommending it to anyone over a used copy of the existing 24-105L. For crop users, I have a really hard time recommending it over the new 18-135 Nano USM lens.

I thought it would make more sense when the next generation of full frame bodies released with DPAF support, but the 5DIV will presumably have DPAF...but will come with a new kit lens.

Who exactly is the 24-105 STM for?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 16, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> mclaren777 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see any reason why Canon would upgrade the 7D2 to shoot 4K video.
> ...



Providing 4K is a ground up proposition, sensor cooling, is the big issue, but hardware capable of writing at the necessary speeds is also needed. I just don't see 4K being added by firmware.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> Who exactly is the 24-105 STM for?



6DII kit lens? Maybe there's an even cheaper FF Rebel coming down the pike?


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## daniela (Aug 16, 2016)

Did anybody hear something about an hardware change in the Canon EOS 7D Mark II that will be announced on the end of this month, or are there just software rumors out there?


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## ahsanford (Aug 16, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> The new 24-105L II makes last year's 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 STM even more of a head scratcher. For full frame shooters, I've had a hard time recommending it to anyone over a used copy of the existing 24-105L. For crop users, I have a really hard time recommending it over the new 18-135 Nano USM lens.
> 
> I thought it would make more sense when the next generation of full frame bodies released with DPAF support, but the 5DIV will presumably have DPAF...but will come with a new kit lens.
> 
> Who exactly is the 24-105 STM for?



It was meant to be a dead fish Canon gave to 24-105L owners to tell them that a 4.5x FL multiplier standard zoom was moving downmarket _and that a 24-105L II was never coming_. But they just completely reversed their positioning on this lens, much to this forum's joy (many folks wanted an 24-105L II).

Or the STM version was meant to be the cheaper EF kit zoom the 28-135 USM used to be. Either way, I'm sure it's lovely, but as much as the non-L primes are awesome, I'd only ever own L zooms since I moved to FF.

- A


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## sunnyVan (Aug 16, 2016)

But that'd mean that the 6Dii would have DPAF, which I'd find a little hard to believe. 



neuroanatomist said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > Who exactly is the 24-105 STM for?
> ...


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## GMCPhotographics (Aug 16, 2016)

The 24-105 LIS mkII is great news. It makes a fantastic two lens line up with the new 100-400mm LIS II.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> But that'd mean that the 6Dii would have DPAF, which I'd find a little hard to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not at all hard to believe a 6DII will have DPAF.


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## Sharlin (Aug 16, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> But that'd mean that the 6Dii would have DPAF, which I'd find a little hard to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My money's on Canon putting DPAF in every single non-Rebel/$1000+ DSLR from now on. Does not really make sense not to - it never was a high-end professional feature like, for example, the 60+ point AF sensors. DPAF is mature tech at this point - if the newest gen is too advanced, the 6D could get a 70D-style first-gen DPAF implementation without Live View Servo AF. I wouldn't be surprised if even the next 100-series Rebel (the "800D") got DPAF.


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## IgotGASbadDude (Aug 16, 2016)

frankchn said:


> True, but we are talking about a $2000 MSRP lens that is fairly specialist here. I am guessing the people who need/*want it *will jump on it even if Canon just puts it on its online store one day with no announcement whatsoever.



You just described me. ;D Already sold my Sigma 24mm Art lens (that BTW, I loved) in preparation for this lens. Had the II version and loved it, but had to give it up to get a 1DX. Can't wait to get back to this lens!


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## Don Haines (Aug 16, 2016)

daniela said:


> Did anybody hear something about an hardware change in the Canon EOS 7D Mark II that will be announced on the end of this month, or are there just software rumors out there?



Just software rumours....

Odds are that the rumoured firmware update will be the remote control code to go with the new W-P1 wifi interface, although there is a rumour of a "new to Canon" feature to be included in the 5D4 which, if it is software like the flicker-detection", could also show up in the 7D2 firmware update....

4K video could appear, but only if power and overheating issues caused by the increased processor workload can be solved and only if data can be written to storage fast enough. Since both of those are hardware issues, it is extremely unlikely. There is the chance of being able to shoot short clips of 4K video at high compression rates, but in this case we have to ask why? To compress enough to be able to write it to the existing storage sort of negates the advantage of going to 4K in the first place.......


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## sunnyVan (Aug 16, 2016)

There would be too few distinguishing differences between a 5dmk4 and 6dmk2. Why would anyone pay twice as much for a 5dmk4 just for 4k video and better build quality? 





neuroanatomist said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > But that'd mean that the 6Dii would have DPAF, which I'd find a little hard to believe.
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> There would be too few distinguishing differences between a 5dmk4 and 6dmk2. Why would anyone pay twice as much for a 5dmk4 just for 4k video and better build quality?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So are you suggesting the 6DII will get >60 AF points, f/8 AF, dual card slots, >24 MP, a deep buffer, 6-7 fps, etc...or are you suggesting those features are worthless and non-differentiating and that anyone who bought a 5DIII instead of a 6D was foolish? ???


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## wsmith96 (Aug 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Ah, but that's the rub. Zoom or prime, name one canon lens wider than 35mm that is f/2.8 or faster that has low coma. The 24-70L II is really the only move there, and I presume the astro camp wants wider or faster than that.
> 
> So every time a new wide / fast lens gets offered by anyone, it gets the astro camp's hopes up. This one is no different.
> 
> - A



True, but there are 3rd party options. I'm not an normally and astro shooter, but when I do, I shoot with a rokinon 14 mm 2.8 (in my "most interesting man in the world voice"). Stay sharp my friends....


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## nightscape123 (Aug 16, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > There would be too few distinguishing differences between a 5dmk4 and 6dmk2. Why would anyone pay twice as much for a 5dmk4 just for 4k video and better build quality?
> ...



Fairly certain the 6D II will have 24 MP, and f/8 focusing. It would be foolish not to since even the 80d got those things. However it will probably only have 4-5 fps, a small buffer, and a significantly less powerful AF system. The AF system and fps seem to be the biggest differentiators for canon. I doubt it will get 4k video though.


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## wsmith96 (Aug 16, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> The new 24-105L II makes last year's 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 STM even more of a head scratcher. For full frame shooters, I've had a hard time recommending it to anyone over a used copy of the existing 24-105L. For crop users, I have a really hard time recommending it over the new 18-135 Nano USM lens.
> 
> I thought it would make more sense when the next generation of full frame bodies released with DPAF support, but the 5DIV will presumably have DPAF...but will come with a new kit lens.
> 
> Who exactly is the 24-105 STM for?



It makes an affordable solution for the 6D II.


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## sunnyVan (Aug 16, 2016)

Not saying those features are worthless and certainly not saying anyone's foolish to choose 5dmk3 over 6d. I'm one of those people who upgraded from 6d to mk3. I upgraded for the extra AF points, not those extra features that are really nice but not a must to have. The 6D matches 5dmk2 in many ways. It's reasonable to expect a 6dmk2 to match 5dmk3 in many ways. And when a 6dmk2 is almost as good as a 5dmk3, it becomes very difficult to justify paying premium for extra features that regular joes don't need. There comes a point when good enough is good enough. It's the same phenomenon with smartphones. I have an iphone 6. I was a happy user of Note 2 for many years before that. And now I don't see any reason to upgrade to iphone 7 or 8 or 9. My iphone 6 is just good enough. 

Back to my point. 6Dmk2, if it exists at all, will be very competent. 5dmk4 must beat it in some very important features. I see DPAF as a reasonable differentiating factor. 



neuroanatomist said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > There would be too few distinguishing differences between a 5dmk4 and 6dmk2. Why would anyone pay twice as much for a 5dmk4 just for 4k video and better build quality?
> ...


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## wsmith96 (Aug 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> What happened to the 70-300 IS USM II?



Good catch. That fell off the list somewhere....


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## epsiloneri (Aug 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Zoom or prime, name one canon lens wider than 35mm that is f/2.8 or faster that has low coma.


The EF 15/2.8 fisheye has very low coma, unfortunately it's been replaced by the slower EF 8-15/4L. But I know of no _faster_ Canon than 2.8 (and wider than 35mm) with low coma. The Samyangs have low coma but are not very sharp to begin with in my experience. The Sigma Arts all sadly have very poor coma at faster than 2.8.


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## AvTvM (Aug 16, 2016)

mirror SLAP, SLAP, SLAP. 
Nothing mirrorless, not even a shitty EOS M4. 
Not surprised. Stupid Canon.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> What happened to the 70-300 IS USM II?



It's coming after Photokina...


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## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> mirror SLAP, SLAP, SLAP.
> Nothing mirrorless, not even a S___ty EOS M4.
> Not surprised. Stupid Canon.



And those S____ty things actually work when you need them....


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 16, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> mirror SLAP, SLAP, SLAP.
> Nothing mirrorless, not even a S___ty EOS M4.
> Not surprised. Stupid Canon.



Canon is releasing a camera people will actually buy, and not just talk about.


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## wockawocka (Aug 16, 2016)

Where's my new 50L and 85L ???


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 16, 2016)

wockawocka said:


> Where's my new 50L and 85L ???



Not in 2016 I'm afraid, just a 70-300 coming.


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## AvTvM (Aug 16, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > mirror SLAP, SLAP, SLAP.
> ...



some people will buy. I will not buy 5d4. 5D3 is the last mirrorslapper i ever bought. Simple as that.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 16, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



canon has a 49% marketshare for the first 6 months of 2015. I doubt they care.


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## nightscape123 (Aug 16, 2016)

epsiloneri said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom or prime, name one canon lens wider than 35mm that is f/2.8 or faster that has low coma.
> ...



Tamron 15-30 f/2.8 is the best one out there currently imo. Fast, sharp and no coma to speak of. Unfortunately it doesn't take filters easily and it weighs as much as a brick; literally. I'm hoping the new canon will be able to match it but with filters and lower weight. If so i'll sell the tamron and save up for the newer canon.


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## unfocused (Aug 16, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> Not saying those features are worthless and certainly not saying anyone's foolish to choose 5dmk3 over 6d...There comes a point when good enough is good enough.



For most people, we are well past the point of "good enough." Indeed, that's one of the challenges facing the industry. If everyone bought a camera that was "good enough" no one would buy a full frame camera and most people wouldn't ever buy anything except a Rebel (In fact, that's already the case.)

Canon and Nikon are focusing on the enthusiast market, which is generally not driven by either need or logic, but rather by want.

They only need the 5DIV to have sufficient panache to attract enthusiasts. That said, there are plenty of features where Canon can differentiate the 6D from the 5D series. There is no guarantee that the 6D II will inherit the 5D III autofocus (which may also end up being the 5D IV autofocus as well). Even the 70D Autofocus would be a significant step up. 

The 6DII will not have the 5D's weathersealing or controls, but will likely retain the same XXD series controls. It will have a different sensor, which is likely to be lower mp count than the 5DIV. It will have a slower frame rate and it will likely have just one SD card slot.

I do agree the 6D II will have DPAF and will most likely have additional f8 autofocus points (Those added points are all about selling the 100-400 "L" and not about the cameras).

I have complete confidence in Canon's ability to target our vanity well enough to get people to buy the 5D IV, even if there aren't a lot of significant differences between it and the 6D II.


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## Gnocchi (Aug 16, 2016)

What is the hold up on the 50mm 1.4 replacement?
23 years to design and build a replacement!
Come on canon.....


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> I'm one of those people who upgraded from 6d to mk3. I upgraded for the extra AF points, not those extra features that are really nice but not a must to have. The 6D matches 5dmk2 in many ways. It's reasonable to expect a 6dmk2 to match 5dmk3 in many ways. And when a 6dmk2 is almost as good as a 5dmk3, it becomes very difficult to justify paying premium for extra features that regular joes don't need.
> 
> Back to my point. 6Dmk2, if it exists at all, will be very competent. 5dmk4 must beat it in some very important features.



Sorry, but you've ignored the elephant in the room - cost. The 5DII was launched at $2700, the 5DIII was launched at the _significantly_ higher price of $3500. When the 5DIII launched, Canon continued (officially) selling the 5DII, which is not their normal practice when launching the next model in the line. They did that because the much higher price of the 5DIII left a gaping hole beneath it. Subsequently (about 6 months after the 5DIII), the 6D was launched and _that_ was the direct 'replacement' of the 5DII, which was then discontinued. 

So, yes – the 6D was similar to the 5DII, but the 5DIII was a major improvement over the 5DII (it got the 1-series AF, unprecedented for Canon). The 5DIV is stacking up to be a relatively incremental update to the 5DIII in most ways, so it's not likely that Canon will deliver major changes in the 6DII. The 6DII will improve on the 6D, but it won't leapfrog up to match the 5DIII. 



sunnyVan said:


> I see DPAF as a reasonable differentiating factor.



It's reasonable, but I don't think Canon will do it. Frame rate, AF, build and sealing, dual card slots, 4K – that's ample differentiation.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



+1

But still, he persists in believing he understands the market better than Canon. It would be comical if it weren't so pathetic.


----------



## douglaurent (Aug 17, 2016)

5D4: no in body stabilzation, no swivel screen, no 4k 60fps, no filming through viewfinder, no focus peaking, no C-Log, no crop modes, no lowlight king, no 50mp, no 15fps, no flexible button assignment etc etc: the camera is already outperformed by several older Canon and Sony cameras and offers the workflow of app. 2008, but will be sold until 2020. Disappointing!!! I will buy it for nostalgic reasons only and as collectors item. Canon wake up or do you really want to wait until Sony is 3 steps ahead?

16-35/2.8III: not having Image stabilization, it better outperforms the Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC optically by a wide margin, especially as Canon will charge 2.5x the price. If it's not tack sharp in the corners at 2.8, this lens will be a big miss.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> 5D4: no in body stabilzation, no swivel screen, no 4k 60fps, no filming through viewfinder, no focus peaking, no C-Log, no crop modes, no lowlight king, no 50mp, no 15fps, no flexible button assignment etc etc: the camera is already outperformed by several older Canon and Sony cameras and offers the workflow of app. 2008, but will be sold until 2020. Disappointing!!! I will buy it for nostalgic reasons only and as collectors item. Canon wake up or do you really want to wait until Sony is 3 steps ahead?
> 
> 16-35/2.8III: not having Image stabilization, it better outperforms the Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC optically by a wide margin, especially as Canon will charge 2.5x the price. If it's not tack sharp in the corners at 2.8, this lens will be a big miss.



Not sure if sarcastic .. or whether or not this is another user that slipped into the AvTvM Universe™


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > mirror SLAP, SLAP, SLAP.
> ...



CR Rumors guy, I'm shocked! Neutrality lost!

I feel like a SCOTUS appointee just gave a noogie to the President during state of the union.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

Gnocchi said:


> What is the hold up on the 50mm 1.4 replacement?
> 23 years to design and build a replacement!
> Come on canon.....



+500

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> 16-35/2.8III: not having Image stabilization, it better outperforms the Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC optically by a wide margin, especially as Canon will charge 2.5x the price. If it's not tack sharp in the corners at 2.8, this lens will be a big miss.



That lens will comfortably outsell the Tamron by a factor of 10. It's not just about IS vs. no IS, or sharpness per dollar.

It is a first-choice lens for sports / reportage / event people. 

It has first party AF routines that have been battle-tested over numerous generations. It will hit more, it will hit faster, etc.

It takes filters. This is great for a lot of reasons: ND in bright sun with a flash, CPL if you need it, UV/clear if you are shooting out in the rain, standard Lee 4x6 holder setup, etc.

It might even have the BR gunk in it, who knows?

No knock on the Tamron, but I see this 16-35L III selling like gangbusters unless Canon asks for 24-70 f/2.8L II at launch kind of money for it. Even then, I still see it moving a lot of units.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > 16-35/2.8III: not having Image stabilization, it better outperforms the Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC optically by a wide margin, especially as Canon will charge 2.5x the price. If it's not tack sharp in the corners at 2.8, this lens will be a big miss.
> ...



the original 16-35mm 2.8L was 230,000 yen or 2300 USD in today's exchange.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > 5D4: no in body stabilzation, no swivel screen, no 4k 60fps, no filming through viewfinder, no focus peaking, no C-Log, no crop modes, no lowlight king, no 50mp, no 15fps, no flexible button assignment etc etc: the camera is already outperformed by several older Canon and Sony cameras and offers the workflow of app. 2008, but will be sold until 2020. Disappointing!!! I will buy it for nostalgic reasons only and as collectors item. Canon wake up or do you really want to wait until Sony is 3 steps ahead?
> ...



In theory, all of the features he spoke to are in one camera or another, but the presumption that the 5D4 has to simultaneously offer all of those is patently bonkers.

By the way, his wish list looks roughly like a future spec sheet for the A7R III, one would guess. Because specs. Because of course. :

- A


----------



## mikekx102 (Aug 17, 2016)

Awesome, so I'm going to buy the 5D Mark IV body only upon release. My question now is how to go about it. I've never bought a camera upon release so I'm not sure if its worth waiting a few months after availability - how much would you expect to save? Or is there a benefit to pre-ordering? I've been waiting for about a year now so I don't mind an extra few months


----------



## fallsong (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *

New 5D4 specs out.

http://digicame-info.com/

- effective 30.4MP CMOS sensor 
- dual pixel AF CMOS 
- ever possible to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file 
- AF 61 points 
- 150,000-pixel RGB + IR photometry sensor 
- anti-flicker 
- continuous shooting 7 frames / sec 
- ISO100-102400 (extended sensitivity) 
- touch panel 
- dust and water specification 
- video 30Fps 4K 
- can cut out the JPEG still image of 8MP from 4K video 
- for the slow motion 120fps of HD video 
- time-lapse movie 
- GPS built-in 
- Wi-Fi, NFC 
- media SD / SDHC / SDXC and CompactFlash TypeII 
- USB3.0 terminal, HDMI terminal 
- size X 116.4Mm X 150.7Mm 75.9Mm 
- weight 890g


----------



## unfocused (Aug 17, 2016)

mikekx102 said:


> Awesome, so I'm going to buy the 5D Mark IV body only upon release. My question now is how to go about it. I've never bought a camera upon release so I'm not sure if its worth waiting a few months after availability - how much would you expect to save? Or is there a benefit to pre-ordering? I've been waiting for about a year now so I don't mind an extra few months



The first discount is likely to be a Canon Price Watch street price - two to three months after release. Adorama and B&H may offer bundle deals packaged with the new 24-105, a printer and possibly some other accessory like a canon Speedlight. Unlikely to see significant discounts for at least six months. Takes about a year to 18 months for bodies to show up on Canon's refurbished site.

If you can't wait a year consider financing options. Best Buy and PayPal usually have zero interest for one year. Using someone else's money for a year can represent a significant savings that may help offset paying full price.


----------



## davidj (Aug 17, 2016)

Here are specs: http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/eos-5d-mark-iv-11.html

Here are pictures: http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/eos-5d-mark-iv-10.html


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *



fallsong said:


> ...
> - ever possible to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file




Something's clearly lost in translation with that. This would appear to be the killer app / 'first in a DSLR' feature that we've been hearing about. The rest doesn't seem to fit the bill for that claim. 

Pulling a still from video is lovely, but we can do that today -- simplifying that and making it an in-camera move is not a market-moving innovation.

- A


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *



dilbert said:


> > - dust and water specification
> 
> 
> 
> Curious! It will be interesting to see what Canon actually say about this.



The 5D4 will have weather sealing, who would have guessed?!



> > - can cut out the JPEG still image of 8MP from 4K video
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a first for Canon DSLRs?



No.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *



fallsong said:


> New 5D4 specs out.
> 
> http://digicame-info.com/
> 
> ...



No backlit keys. Bummer.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

davidj said:


> Here are specs: http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/eos-5d-mark-iv-11.html
> 
> Here are pictures: http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/eos-5d-mark-iv-10.html



No 1DX2 bump near the hotshoe with the 5D4, but it has GPS and WiFi now. Hmmm... Is the top of this rig still metal?

- A


----------



## sunnyVan (Aug 17, 2016)

I sincerely hope you're correct and that Canon will be generous enough to put DPAF in a 6dii. That'd be basically a full frame 80d. I'd keep my 5dmk3 and skip mk4. That'd give me much better value than paying $3400 for incremental update. Dual card, rugged body, decent frame rate. I get to retain these things in the 5dmk3. Then I get DPAF, articulating screen, and a new sensor with more DR in 6dii. Perfect.



neuroanatomist said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > I'm one of those people who upgraded from 6d to mk3. I upgraded for the extra AF points, not those extra features that are really nice but not a must to have. The 6D matches 5dmk2 in many ways. It's reasonable to expect a 6dmk2 to match 5dmk3 in many ways. And when a 6dmk2 is almost as good as a 5dmk3, it becomes very difficult to justify paying premium for extra features that regular joes don't need.
> ...


----------



## eosuser1234 (Aug 17, 2016)

Releasing the 7Dm2 with an upgraded firmware to allow it to reach 4k makes a ton of sense. If anything, Canon needs a DSLR priced under $2,000 which can shoot 4k like the NIKON D500. Their profit margins are probably way better on an APS-C sized sensor then the next full frame 6Dm2. 

Canon is looking more at what Nikon is doing and watching their sales of certain models, then they are looking at what we are saying on these message boards.


----------



## -pekr- (Aug 17, 2016)

davidj said:


> Here are pictures: http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/eos-5d-mark-iv-10.html



Man, I am not the best designer, but that 5D MK IV badge looks so aesthetically awful.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

At least from the back, it looks a ton like a 5D3 other than:

1) Badge for name moved, apparently to move a port to the front of the camera (cord remote, ya?)
2) Joystick is now textured like the 1DX2
3) Added little button/switch near the joystick -- this is new
4) 5D3 printer icon is gone 

Did I miss anything?

- A


----------



## -pekr- (Aug 17, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> I sincerely hope you're correct and that Canon will be generous enough to put DPAF in a 6dii. That'd be basically a full frame 80d. I'd keep my 5dmk3 and skip mk4. That'd give me much better value than paying $3400 for incremental update. Dual card, rugged body, decent frame rate. I get to retain these things in the 5dmk3. Then I get DPAF, articulating screen, and a new sensor with more DR in 6dii. Perfect.



Except for Canon being ignorant enough, to miss on the articulating screen for their FF line again ... and again ... and again ...


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> No 1DX2 bump near the hotshoe with the 5D4, but it has GPS and WiFi now. Hmmm... Is the top of this rig still metal?



As has been discussed based on the earlier leaked picture, the VF hump is differently shaped than before and there are new seams. Seems very likely the pentaprism case is fully plastic.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *



dilbert said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D4 will have weather sealing, who would have guessed?!
> ...



They will never ever market something as "sand/water proof". You get waterproof by buying an underwater housing. The machine-translated phrase "dust and water specification" has featured in several previous digicame.info spec lists too. It means what it has always meant.


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 17, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > No 1DX2 bump near the hotshoe with the 5D4, but it has GPS and WiFi now. Hmmm... Is the top of this rig still metal?
> ...



Is there a problem with that? I believe some testing showed the "plastic" bodies to be better protection for the guts.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 17, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > As has been discussed based on the earlier leaked picture, the VF hump is differently shaped than before and there are new seams. Seems very likely the pentaprism case is fully plastic.
> ...



There was no value judgement of any kind in my message at least. If anything, more plastic = better Wi-Fi signal, most probably.

This is only the second FF Canon body to feature Wi-Fi, right? The 6D has a full-plastic top; the 5D4 apparently only around the antenna parts - but with Wi-Fi you can't just get by with a small hump like in the 1DX2.


----------



## sunnyVan (Aug 17, 2016)

Nikon already put an articulating screen on their full frame camera. Canon is forced to respond by doing the same. It's inconceivable that the next full frame doesn't have articulating screen. 5D series doesn't have it I can understand but 6d series absolutely will. 




-pekr- said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > I sincerely hope you're correct and that Canon will be generous enough to put DPAF in a 6dii. That'd be basically a full frame 80d. I'd keep my 5dmk3 and skip mk4. That'd give me much better value than paying $3400 for incremental update. Dual card, rugged body, decent frame rate. I get to retain these things in the 5dmk3. Then I get DPAF, articulating screen, and a new sensor with more DR in 6dii. Perfect.
> ...


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 17, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> It's *inconceivable *that the next full frame doesn't have articulating screen.



Ahem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXjcZdk5QQ


----------



## RBC5 (Aug 17, 2016)

http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/post-832.html

Is there an English version to this site? I can't translate anything at the above link.


----------



## mclaren777 (Aug 17, 2016)

People keep wondering about that new button on the back. Wasn't this answered a while ago here on CR...

*"Other ergonomic changes, such as a new locking switch on the rear of the camera."*


----------



## vjlex (Aug 17, 2016)

Are the buttons backlit? It doesn't look like it from the pictures.

http://www.cameraegg.org/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-full-specs-and-images/


----------



## xps (Aug 17, 2016)

I like the lever around the joystick and the big multifuction wheel. Of the 7DII. I hope the 5D will be as easy to use and being customizable....


----------



## fallsong (Aug 17, 2016)

With my limited Japanese, the # 3 should be: "Unpresidential, and post-process-able dual pixel raw file”

Could this be the so-called "DLSR first" function?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

fallsong said:


> With my limited Japanese, the # 3 should be: "Unpresidential, and post-process-able dual pixel raw file”
> 
> Could this be the so-called "DLSR first" function?



(posted this in the other thread too)

- これまでに無い後処理の調整が可能なデュアルピクセルRAWファイル

bing translate:

-Unprecedented cleanup adjustable dual pixels RAW files

google translate:

So far it can be to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file

Then there's this:

5D Mark IVのスペックは、ほぼ海外で噂されていた通りのようで、Mark III から全体的なスペックを底上げさせたバランス機に仕上がっているようです。新しいデュアルピクセルのRAWファイルは非常に興味深いところですね。ボディサイズはごくわずかに小さくなっているようです。

translated: 

5 d Mark IV specs is like, as had been rumored in the near abroad, seems to have finished in balance machines which raise the overall specs from the Mark III. *New dualpixels RAW files are very interesting.* Body size is slightly smaller is like.



anyone know japanese? 
Did canon just implement dual ISO? and yes that would be a first.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

dilbert said:


> fallsong said:
> 
> 
> > With my limited Japanese, the # 3 should be: "Unpresidential, and post-process-able dual pixel raw file”
> ...



nope the 1Dx Mark II does raw processing, hell it even does full out DLO processing in camera.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Did canon just implement dual ISO? and yes that would be a first.



The photography internet would absoutely break if that's what it meant:

[list type=decimal]
[*]The Magic Lantern camp might sue Canon for poaching their idea (if they were smart enough to patent it)


[*]Canon would claim 'first' and claim bestest most awesomeness


[*]SoNikon sensor fanboys would claim Canon had to resort to pixel trickery and software shenanigans to beat their sensors head to head


[*]DXO would in turn refuse to test the camera as it represented a multi-shot mode (even though they report a multi-shot mode for their very own camera design, the DXO One)
[/list]

Could you imagine the hell that would raise if that's what it was?

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Did canon just implement dual ISO? and yes that would be a first.
> ...



damn, i hope they did it.. this would be popcorn worthy.

would be a boon for wedding photogs if you could adjust the ISO's of the pairs though individually.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

dilbert said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Not the post but I vividly recall several conversations on here about it. DPAF always made total sense to employ this exact sort of thing and Canon probably couldnt get it ready in time for 1DX2 but I suspect a firmware update will be imminent once the 5D4 starts shipping


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Not the post but I vividly recall several conversations on here about it. DPAF always made total sense to employ this exact sort of thing and Canon probably couldnt get it ready in time for 1DX2 but I suspect a firmware update will be imminent once the 5D4 starts shipping



But why withhold a best-in-class sensor feature from their flagship rig? "Timing" would be a very poor excuse to the 1DX2 crowd if this 5D4 sensor IQ is made clearly better from such a feature.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Not the post but I vividly recall several conversations on here about it. DPAF always made total sense to employ this exact sort of thing and Canon probably couldnt get it ready in time for 1DX2 but I suspect a firmware update will be imminent once the 5D4 starts shipping
> ...



it could be impossible.

I have been scouring the us patent office looking for relevant patents... my god .. canon files alot.

anyways.. there's has been alot of work done on DPAF optimization. it could be that the 1DX Mark II sensor is optimized for speed, and not optimized to output all values.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

dilbert said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



keep in mind that ML dual ISO is NOT the same thing.

basically one line would output at ISO 100, and the subsequent line would output at another.

this would be two values under each microlens.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

dilbert said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Well the 80D and 1DX2 share the same sensor build. The 7D2 does not. While all three have DPAF, the 7D2 was built with a sensor that predates the new Canon on sensor ADC fabrication process. The 5D4 will also have that new process. That said, I'm not sure how the placement of the ADC would affect such a feature. If ML could hack it in a 5D3 without any of that, i would imagine Canon would find a way to do it here if so inclined with a much more soohisticated system than ML ever had to work with. No line skipping


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 17, 2016)

So judging by the front picture it looks like this camera won't have an interchangeable screen. I'm really surprised at this because I can't understand why Canon would change the 7D series to take different screens as in the 7DII, but not the 5 series. Surely an interchangeable screen is more applicable to a FF camera than a crop one ? 

I can only assume that Canon MR shows that manual lenses are a hobbyist's thing, and many more hobbyists use crop than FF. Following this logic I guess we will now see the 6DII retain its user interchangeable screen.


----------



## AdamBotond (Aug 17, 2016)

From that long list of upcoming products the Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III is the only one which should bring something new to the table. Others are rather evolutionary and not revolutionary upgrades. The new 15-35 III however should set a new standard in fast wide angle zooms. Excited!


----------



## eosuser1234 (Aug 17, 2016)

Does this mean the M series is coming to a close?
I thought Maeda-san had said a new EOS-M was coming out soon in September of last year. What is going on in regardless to the EOS M series?


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 17, 2016)

eosuser1234 said:


> Does this mean the M series is coming to a close?
> I thought Maeda-san had said a new EOS-M was coming out soon in September of last year. What is going on in regardless to the EOS M series?



+1 

stupid geriatric ward. stupid Canon.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> eosuser1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Does this mean the M series is coming to a close?
> ...



So far in 2016 (Jan-Jun), global MILC shipments are down 15% compared to the same period last year (dSLRs have dropped about the same). In Japan, MILC shipments have dropped close to 40%, whereas dSLR shipments have dropped 25%. 

So yeah, sounds like a great time to push hard at launching new MILCs...at least, in The AvTvM Universe. :


----------



## nvsravank (Aug 17, 2016)

Ok I have been trying to search for any more details on the new 16-35 lens. I dont see much in terms of leaks.
Can anybody point me to the right links here or outside to read up more on the rumors on this lens!

I got my 1DX Mark II and so back to lenses for satisfying that GAS.


----------



## eosuser1234 (Aug 17, 2016)

I can imagine being a sales manager at Canon is difficult these days. Maybe product life cycles are going back to more like FILM SLR cameras. new cameras every 5-6 years if that. Pro products 7-10 year cycle. Sure technology is faster, and people want mega pixels, people want 4k 120fps, and 8K but who has Google Fiber to support streaming 4k? The technology is there for cameras, and certain pros will need and demand that, but on an economic scale, the general consumer main platform for viewing and sharing photos is now probably a 4.7inch iphone and it is not economically viable for companies to produce new products in mass every three years, only to have very few people feel the need to upgrade due to lack of viewing/sharing platforms available which can showoff the technology leaps made in cameras. Who knows though.


----------



## KrisK (Aug 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > eosuser1234 said:
> ...



Isn't the MILC crowd blaming the earthquake? (I don't know enough about business _OR_ plate tectonics to have an opinion one way or the other.)

But I was hoping for an M.


----------



## LordofTackle (Aug 17, 2016)

nvsravank said:


> Ok I have been trying to search for any more details on the new 16-35 lens. I dont see much in terms of leaks.
> Can anybody point me to the right links here or outside to read up more on the rumors on this lens!
> 
> I got my 1DX Mark II and so back to lenses for satisfying that GAS.



+1

very interested in that lens. I was never really happy with the mark II. 
I don't want the Tamron with that huge bulbous front element. So it's either the Mark III or the f/4 variant...


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 17, 2016)

Launching a really decent, fully competitive Canon EOS M4 body after many years of neglect and half-assed mirrorless attempts would hardly qualify as "pushin' hard" ... 

In fact, it would have been an absolutely necesary step to keep EOS M platform alive and kicking. 

Stupid Canon.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> In fact, it would have been an absolutely necesary step to keep EOS M platform alive and kicking.



Gee, I must have missed the obituary and the funeral. Last I saw, Canon had moved from #4 to #3 in Japan MILC sales. Maybe they're only mostly dead.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Launching a really decent, fully competitive Canon EOS M4 body after many years of neglect and half-assed mirrorless attempts would hardly qualify as "pushin' hard" ...
> 
> In fact, it would have been an absolutely necesary step to keep EOS M platform alive and kicking.
> 
> Stupid Canon.



yes, stupid canon .. so far this year .. they have shipped out somewhere around 25 to 40% of all mirrorless.


----------



## tr573 (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *



dilbert said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



They will qualify it by saying

"The Canon EOS 5D Mark IV features dust and weather sealing equivalent to the EOS 1V, the camera which set the standard for weather resistance" , exactly like they do on every single other camera.


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> yes, stupid canon .. so far this year .. they have shipped out somewhere around 25 to 40% of all mirrorless.



no.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

*Ladiessss and gentlemennnnn, in this corner, weighing in at over 1000 characters, we have rrcphoto...*



rrcphoto said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting, is that canon now holds nearly a 50% of the overall marketshare.
> ...



*...and in this corner, weighing in at a paltry 2 characters, we have the hopelessly outmatched and outclassed AvTvM.*



AvTvM said:


> no.



Ding ding ding. 

Wow, that was a quick bout. *Medic, we need a medic!!*


----------



## sunnyVan (Aug 17, 2016)

What's keeping you from switching to Sony or Fuji? They got everything you are asking for. 



AvTvM said:


> Launching a really decent, fully competitive Canon EOS M4 body after many years of neglect and half-assed mirrorless attempts would hardly qualify as "pushin' hard" ...
> 
> In fact, it would have been an absolutely necesary step to keep EOS M platform alive and kicking.
> 
> Stupid Canon.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> What's keeping you from switching to Sony or Fuji? They got everything you are asking for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, they technically don't have the crop equivalent of a 135 f/2L with IS in an ultra-thin pancake design for a bargain basement price that millions of photographers are asking for that AvTvM truly needs to attain nirvana.

That is turning out to be a bigger hurdle than 'Stupid Canon' is.

- A


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## AvTvM (Aug 17, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> What's keeping you from switching to Sony or Fuji? They got everything you are asking for.



unfortunately not. 
Sony has the bodies A7R II and A6300. But not optically good AND affordable lenses. Especially not for APS-C (E-Mount). 

Fuji has decent bodies and decent lenses, but at FF prices for APS-C only. 

I am more than happy with Canon EF-M glass - except that missing EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM. And I do like the Canon RT flash system. But all existing EOS M bodies suck. Big time. That's the dilemma. 

Stupid Canon, give me a decent EOS M4.


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## sunnyVan (Aug 17, 2016)

https://www.gofundme.com/

Problem solved. 



AvTvM said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > What's keeping you from switching to Sony or Fuji? They got everything you are asking for.
> ...


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## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Ding ding ding.
> 
> Wow, that was a quick bout. *Medic, we need a medic!!*



bahahaha.. I think the AvTvM Universe™ just crossed the event horizon into the black hole called despair.


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## AvTvM (Aug 17, 2016)

Don't worry. Things are just fine for AvTvM. He's using his slapping and non-slapping Canon gear to take pictures but does not buy new or additional Canon stuff, until *stupid* Canon finally makes what he wants. Until then, things are bad for Canon. Because AvTvM is not alone in the universe.


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Don't worry. Things are just fine for AvTvM. He's using his slapping and non-slapping Canon gear to take pictures but does not buy new or additional Canon stuff, until *stupid* Canon finally makes what he wants. Until then, things are bad for Canon. Because AvTvM is not alone in the universe.



I hear you on mirrorless, and eventually (almost) everyone will get there. 

But that lens you want is some piece of science fiction. It's a bag of holding from D&D. Don't hold your breath on that.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Until then, things are bad for Canon.



Sure, if making a profit and gaining marketshare are 'bad'. :


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## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Until then, things are bad for Canon.
> ...



Canon can't hear AvTvM over the sound of all those damned trucks shipping out 2.5 million ILC's..


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## sunnyVan (Aug 18, 2016)

Sony heard his demand. But he refuses to cough up large sum for the G masters. 



rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 18, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> Sony heard his demand. But he refuses to cough up large sum for the G masters.



Those small, light lenses are perfect for a compact MILC system!


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## sunnyVan (Aug 18, 2016)

he wants lightweight and small too? Well...can't help anymore



neuroanatomist said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > Sony heard his demand. But he refuses to cough up large sum for the G masters.
> ...


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > Sony heard his demand. But he refuses to cough up large sum for the G masters.
> ...



Also on AvTvM's s---list? *Physics*. Who else but Physics would make his long + fast lenses neither pancake thin nor as light as a feather? 

Physics. That's who. Physics is a jerk.

#slappinmirrors #stupidcanon #jerkphysics 

- A


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## slclick (Aug 18, 2016)

I thought I'd jump in on page 10. I see you're having a dial boy love fest already. In other news, I see the supposed specs look pretty good...still, I'll keep my Mk3 and save my Krones for boutique road bike components and whatnot. You should see those forums!


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## AvTvM (Aug 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Also on AvTvM's s---list? *Physics*. Who else but Physics would make his long + fast lenses neither pancake thin nor as light as a feather?
> 
> Physics. That's who. Physics is a jerk.
> #slappinmirrors #stupidcanon #jerkphysics
> - A



In case you forgot: all I am askin for is *one* additional, compact EF-M lens. Neither very long nor very fast. Just a modest portrait tele, something like an EF-M 85mm f/2.4 IS STM. 

I don't see, what kind of Canon fanboy physics would prevent that lens to be similar in size and weight to a Pentax 77mm/1.8 FA - which happens to be an FF lens. 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/388316-REG/Pentax_27980_Telephoto_SMCP_FA_77mm_f_1_8.html

Leaving off manual aperture ring and using a bit more (hi-grade) plastic rather than all metal, it could also be priced reasonably - in line with the other EF-M lenses ... say USD/€ 399. I'd be willing to spend that on a crop fixed focal lens, but not more. I am sure, that lens would sell quite well ... provided Canon also launch a worthwhile EOS M4 body some day soon.


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## Local Hero (Aug 18, 2016)

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much for dual ISO HDR.

Whilst I'm sure Canon could do this if they want to, the problem is they would have to pay a royalty on every camera sold because it is patented by another company.

So I'm thinking Canon wouldn't be prepared to do this on a high volume camera like the 5D IV.

Would be cool if I'm wrong on this one.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

Local Hero said:


> I wouldn't get your hopes up too much for dual ISO HDR.
> 
> Whilst I'm sure Canon could do this if they want to, the problem is they would have to pay a royalty on every camera sold because it is patented by another company.
> 
> ...



You wouldn't believe how many HDR patents canon holds. 

I tried to find a relevant one and gave up after an hour worth of patent searches.


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## Local Hero (Aug 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> You wouldn't believe how many HDR patents canon holds.
> 
> I tried to find a relevant one and gave up after an hour worth of patent searches.



I know a bit about this one, because I used to work for the patent holder.
They have quite a few licensing deals with other camera companies already.

However there is a lot of semantics involved with regards to how it happens on the sensor and how it is processed etc.

So sometimes it can be got around.


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## IglooEater (Aug 20, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Fixed it for you


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## LoneRider (Aug 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> So far in 2016 (Jan-Jun), global MILC shipments are down 15% compared to the same period last year (dSLRs have dropped about the same). In Japan, MILC shipments have dropped close to 40%, whereas dSLR shipments have dropped 25%.
> 
> So yeah, sounds like a great time to push hard at launching new MILCs...at least, in The AvTvM Universe. :



Serious pent-up demand in the dSLR Canon universe. I've been putting off buying a camera for at least 6-8 months expecting the 5Div. If I'm going to spend over $2K on a FF, it was going to be the right one.

I would suggest a lot of people have been waiting for the 5Div to be at least announced before they pull the trigger on their next camera.

We will see what the tail end of Q3'16 and Q4'16 looks like for camera sales.


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