# Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 11, 2015)

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<p>CPN has posted an interview with Tsunemasa Ohara, the Senior General Manager of Camera Research and Development at Canon Inc. He’s the man behind the development of this high resolution DSLR.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>CPN:</strong> What do you see as the potential future for Canon high-resolution cameras? Where might the technology be in five years time?</p>
<p><strong>TO:</strong> “There is a demand for high-megapixel (cameras) and high-resolution and, of course, we will continue on this quest in the future and to try to satisfy this demand. As you know, in August 2010, we announced a 120-million pixel APS-H CMOS sensor… so we have shown that we have the technology to produce even higher resolution sensors, but we must also focus on high image quality, too. So DIGIC processing, and all the other algorithms that contribute to high image quality, we need to work on too. It is the overall package that makes Canon EOS digital cameras so successful.”</p></blockquote>
<p><strong><a href="http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/interviews/developing_eos_5ds_and_eos_5ds_r.do" target="_blank">Read the full interview</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## fotoray (Feb 11, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

Are current lenses ready for this? There must be a cross-over point where you can no longer take advantage of more mega-pixels. How can this be quantified?


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## jebrady03 (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

I hate when people do this but... 

In before dynamic range comments...


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



fotoray said:


> Are current lenses ready for this? There must be a cross-over point where you can no longer take advantage of more mega-pixels. How can this be quantified?


The ability to take advantage of (truly) more resolution depends on each lens model. Highly demanding photographers will stop down your lenses (2 or 3 stops) to reach the sweet spot.

In recent years, Canon has updated the old 16-35mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm, 100-400mm and primes non-USM. Even the cheap 40mm pancake has extremely sharp image when used in F5.6.

I believe that the lenses that Canon has released over the past 5 years can make good use of a resolution above 80 megapixel.

Who has old lenses, you should upgrade to see the benefits of resolution 5DS cameras and 5DS-R. However, there are some treasures of the 1990s, as 100mm F2, 135mm F2, 200mm F2.8.


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## SoullessPolack (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



fotoray said:


> Are current lenses ready for this? There must be a cross-over point where you can no longer take advantage of more mega-pixels. How can this be quantified?



Older lenses may not take _full_ advantage of the high resolution sensor. The newer L lenses, since 2010 with the 70-200 f2.8 II IS, certainly do, as do some non-L's (35mm f2 comes to mind). The important thing to remember is that the 5Ds offers so much more resolution than any current Canon camera, that even if the old lens can't fully resolve the 50mp sensor, it will still have _some_ improvement over your current camera.


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## SoullessPolack (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



fotoray said:


> Are current lenses ready for this? There must be a cross-over point where you can no longer take advantage of more mega-pixels. How can this be quantified?



Furthermore, realize this: there will always be one side of your gear that out-performs the other. If your lenses outresolve the sensor, well, your sensor is the lagging component in your camera system. If your camera sensor outresolves the resolution of the lens, your lens is the lagging component in your camera system. This is always true. People get hung up on this way too often. There's never going to be a perfect balance. You'll always have a weak spot. Complain if you want, but it doesn't change the fact. It doesn't matter whether it's Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Leica, etc, this holds true for every camera manufacturer. It's inherent to photography.

People are always going to be complaining about that. It's rather funny. There's no way to avoid what's inherent in the field. If you have a stellar sensor with bleeding edge technology, your lens may be behind, and then you have the potential to have better image quality if only your lens was better. Conversely, a new lens may come out that outresolves the sensor, and then you have the potential to have better image quality if only your sensor was better. There will always be a weak point in the system. Again, you can complain, or you can recognize it's simply what you have to deal with, and not worry about it.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

I do wish people would stop saying this. Lenses do not out resolve sensors, sensors do not out resolve lenses, they are in symbiosis and neither will ever achieve 100% of their potential however good the other is.

Put a 50 f1.8 @ f5.6 on a 50MP camera and you might get 25MP of usable resolution, put a 200 f2 on it and you might get 45MP; put either on a 100MP camera and you might get 45MP and 80MP; put them on a 8MP camera and you will get 6MP and 7.5MP

The sum of the whole is equal to less than the maximum potential of the worst. More MP will give you more resolution if you use the technique needed to get it.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I do wish people would stop saying this. Lenses do not out resolve sensors, sensors do not out resolve lenses, they are in symbiosis and neither will ever achieve 100% of their potential however good the other is.
> ...



In that instance you would be correct, but we are not talking about theoretical 1lp/mm lenses, we are talking about EOS lenses and even a very modest 18-55 kit lens will resolve more on a 7D MkII (the resolution of the 5DS) than it will on a 20D with 8MP.


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## jyrbba (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

Damn that was a useless interview ;D ;D

It's like the interviewer and the one being interviewed was the same person, but what can you expect from a Canon site.


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

If you were in that situation, what questions would you have asked the head of R&D? 

(Bearing in mind that his personal assistant told you you are not allowed to ask about dynamic range. Directly asking about dynamic range would bring the interview to an abrupt end.)


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## fragilesi (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



StudentOfLight said:


> If you were in that situation, what questions would you have asked the head of R&D?
> 
> (Bearing in mind that his personal assistant told you you are not allowed to ask about dynamic range. Directly asking about dynamic range would bring the interview to an abrupt end.)



If only that worked here . . .


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## zim (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



StudentOfLight said:


> (Bearing in mind that his personal assistant told you you are not allowed to ask about dynamic range. Directly asking about dynamic range would bring the interview to an abrupt end.)



Then it would have been a more interesting if somewhat shorter interview.

I'm sure that there are more questions than boring old DR that would fall into that catagory.


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## mackguyver (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

So they ran out of room for the headphone jack? It's not something I care about, but why did they use that huge double USB port??? According to what I can find, it's the micro-B type of cable for USB 3.0 and it's only needed to be backwards compatible with USB 1.0. Yes, 1.0. How many people buying an expensive body like this are still using a standard that was superseded 15 years ago???


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## crashpc (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

Yes, lenses are prepared. Not all of them, but many. If one goes after resolution, he will get it. New APS-C sensors in M3, 750D and 760D has even higher resolution per area. And If I look on my old M, where with wide angle lens at WIDE (which I used to hate all wa lenses for very low resolution) I can see moire on AA filtered body, I´m pretty sure we can go much further. It data storage is large enaugh, and your computer fast enaugh, and you don´t shoot sports, you need to get more resolution until it´s really blurry at pixel level. Only then you´ll max out your lens resolution. I will be really happy to see 64Mpx APS-C sensor one day. It will outresolve all fullframes untill D800 and younger.


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## dstppy (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



fragilesi said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > If you were in that situation, what questions would you have asked the head of R&D?
> ...



But we have a few persistent people that keep bringing that up for no good . . . . ooooooooooooooooh I see what you did there.


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## rfdesigner (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

What I noticed is that he talked about Mega-pixies and image quality, and for him a key determinator for image quality was the processor.

I think he may be making a mistake there.. won't most 5Ds users be shooting RAW?

The only user I can think of who would choose in camera processing are wedding photogs.. maybe they will be most of the customers for this but I though this was a studio/landscape camera, both of those users would want a RAW image surely?


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



mackguyver said:


> So they ran out of room for the headphone jack? It's not something I care about, but why did they use that huge double USB port???



You need the A/B connector for a device to act as a host (e.g. for the print button everyone uses). 

I'm not certain the standard connector would fit any better. However, I don't suspect that top hole goes a long way towards keeping the door closed. Seems that they could have deleted the top one and added a headphone jack in its place.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



privatebydesign said:


> Put a 50 f1.8 @ f5.6 on a 50MP camera and you might get 25MP of usable resolution



You forgot a decimal point: The 50/1.8 equals *2.5*mp of usable resolution wide open :->



rfdesigner said:


> What I noticed is that he talked about Mega-pixies and image quality, and for him a key determinator for image quality was the processor. I think he may be making a mistake there.. won't most 5Ds users be shooting RAW?



Canon lives in the past here (or in a modern niche) - or they would have a raw *histogram* like Magic Lantern adds it for all supported cameras. But Canon still optimizes for video and jpeg :-\



Canon Rumors said:


> As you know, in August 2010, we announced a 120-million pixel APS-H CMOS sensor… so we have shown that we have the technology to produce even higher resolution sensors



It's true! Of course the cost of this sensor at that die yield would be prohibitive, but they *can* produce it. For whatever it's worth.

Reminds me of former East Germany, they also said they were able to produce computers as advanced as the West. Only that they could only produce it in one-digit quantities, and nobody could afford it :->


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## tphillips63 (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



3kramd5 said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > So they ran out of room for the headphone jack? It's not something I care about, but why did they use that huge double USB port???
> ...


But look at the 7D Mk II ports, it is basically the same size and has USB 3.0 and HDMI and has the headphone and mic, PC and remote so they could have added the headphone.
To differentiate all the lines they just do stuff like this. I am not a video shooter so does not bother me but there is no other good reason to keep the port out.


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## rfdesigner (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



tphillips63 said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > mackguyver said:
> ...



It may have been space on the inside they ran out of. A headphone port will require a headphone driver, often these are integrated into other chips, but as many chips inside canon cameras are canon chips, that may not be so.

It may be just an excuse, it may be real


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## Jules (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



rfdesigner said:


> tphillips63 said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



Well, I just got a 7DII last November and I laught at that USB connexion everytime I download pics.
I previously had a 40D with mini-B USB 2.0 plug, compatible with a lot of other devices among which my IXUS 500 HS (for light-picture evenings parties or such), and now i have to handle not only the huge USB 3.0... but also its "protection" : said the documentation, the protective socket is there to be screwed in and protect the mainboard from being torn down basically if you don't pull your USB plug correctly (i.e sideways) ...

When you look at 7DII side, there is indeed room for all same connectors + headphone, and only 1 screw for the protective socket ... here on the 5Ds, they put 2 screws !!! :'( :'(

That probably means that it's a lesson learnt from 7DII , 1 screw was not enought, people were destroying their bodies as the protective device was not attached well enough and people were pulling it as well when taking out the Texas-sized USB plug ! (spent 2 years there ..."everything is bigger in TX")


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## Maiaibing (Feb 12, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



tphillips63 said:


> To differentiate all the lines they just do stuff like this. I am not a video shooter so does not bother me but there is no other good reason to keep the port out.



Sound like a candidate for the lame excuse of the year (and we're only in February...). Micro/mini ports could have solved the space issues - if any (would of course have cost a little more to implement).


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## mackguyver (Feb 13, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

Jules, thank you for the very detailed information. I didn't realize the USB 3.0 was like that on the 7DII as well. I also didn't realize it was required for the host - I guess that's what I get for referring to Wikipedia for this information!


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## K (Feb 13, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

Someone said Canon is living in the past with JPG processing.

I'm one of those people that appreciates the fact that Canon has the best JPG quality out there. Their JPG processing, as well as the noise-reduction on JPG is the best. I don't care what you do with software, you can tweak those sliders all you want - Canon does it better in camera with the NR.

Not every single shot you ever take from a camera needs to be a RAW file destined for hours of tedious and in depth post-processing. Not every single shot deserves or needs the careful post-processing workflow that one would apply to something destined for a portfolio or serious commercial work.

I'm not afraid to shoot JPG depending on the situation. If lighting is not a challenge - JPG is fine. If for example, you're going to be outside during the day shooting a sports event and there's not a cloud in sight - there's no worries for white balance.

Also, people who actually know how to use their cameras and achieve proper exposure IN CAMERA, have nothing to worry about. JPG is safe to tweak up or down 1/2 stop. That's my standard. You can go more, but quality suffers.

Canon applies awesome noise reduction, color aberration correction, vignetting fix, and now with the newer cameras - distortion correction IN CAMERA. You can apply the picture style you want or make a custom one for that event or environment. That is all less crap to have to deal with in post. In post, all one has to do is maybe adjust 1/3 up or down on exposure, and crop for best composition. Small files, easy workflow. Excellent results. Speed. 

Again, not every photo is going to end up becoming an 8 foot poster or mural on display in a gallery. For most people, that will never happen. Why bother with the RAW workflow when it is unnecessary in some situations? Many of my shoots result in the digital transfer of files to the customer. The end result is going to be a JPG anyway!

FYI, I do shoot RAW also for the flexibility of it. But there is a time and place for JPG and it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

A lot of the "only shoot RAW" hysteria has come from Nikon and their shills on the web. Why? Nikon's JPG processing sucks compared to Canon. Nikon doesn't correct the images nearly as well, and their NR is practically non-existent. With Nikon, RAW is the only choice. Canon at least provides professional quality JPG output. Nikon does over saturate their images though - so fun pics, particularly outdoors look great for the average person. Nikon has that sort of high-end point and shoot look to their JPG output. This is targeted to please enthusiast dads shooting family pics. These are the people who go and buy the D3300 or D5200 kit and consider it a "serious" camera for the family.

For me it is simple - if I am shooting with the intention of plenty of post processing - RAW. If the event is not going to benefit from RAW, and JPG is more than enough and there's no lighting issues or dangers - JPG all the way. 

Especially for sports. Having an ENDLESS buffer is great. And yes, I run the 1066x CF on a 5D3, so RAW buffer is good, but JPG is continuous.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 13, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

K, 

That almost rant just sounds like somebody who doesn't have an efficient post processing workflow. In the days pre multiple RAW processors when you had to open each picture individually shooting jpeg in conjunction with RAW was a necessity, now with so many programs that can magae and display multiple RAW files all your concerns are moot.

Any setting you can put in on a custom picture style can be done in post, to as many or as few images as you want with one click. Custom camera profiles, lens corrections, NR and sharpening fine tuned to the n'th degree.

Sure jpegs are 'good', and more than good enough much of the time, but who is buying a 50MP studio orientated camera and shooting jpegs? And find me one semi serious landscape shoter for the 5DS R shooting jpeg alone.


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## K (Feb 13, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



privatebydesign said:


> K,
> 
> That almost rant just sounds like somebody who doesn't have an efficient post processing workflow. In the days pre multiple RAW processors when you had to open each picture individually shooting jpeg in conjunction with RAW was a necessity, now with so many programs that can magae and display multiple RAW files all your concerns are moot.
> 
> ...



I use Lightroom 5 (also have DXO 10). Yes, it can be done via preset or import. But for me, a switch of the dial and it's all there. I just sort through, crop, export - done. 

In the context of a 50MP camera, yeah - JPG is questionable. But JPG isn't obsolete. It's there when useful. While one can make all the changes they want to RAW and have that flexibility, output isn't RAW. It's going to to have to be something, TIF, JPG ...yes other formats maintain full detail, but how often are people going to full resolution print? The real pros shooting huge prints have RAW as a default already and accept a more involved workflow (presets or not).

For those who want quality and simplicity for other scenarios to make a more well-rounded camera, it's nice to have good JPG processing.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 14, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



K said:


> I'm one of those people that appreciates the fact that Canon has the best JPG quality out there. Their JPG processing, as well as the noise-reduction on JPG is the best. I don't care what you do with software, you can tweak those sliders all you want - Canon does it better in camera with the NR.


I'll get insults because of this, ??? but I also appreciate the care that Canon has with in camera JPEG.  It is not very useful for the target user 5DS, but photographers who do sports coverage with 7D Mark ii will see advantages in having images for immediate use.

The JPEG Sony and Nikon seem much worse than your processed RAW, but this has two reasons: : Bad JPEG engine, and RAW "pre-cooked". :-X

I have no proof of this, but I've read several testers claim that Nikon cameras secretly applies both noise reduction, and increased sharpness in your RAW files. If this is true, it would be a false advantage in Nikon RAW files, which look better with little effort in post production. This apparent advantage would not be detected in Nikon camera JPEG.


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## xps (Feb 14, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*

Interesting comment on the pricing od the 5DS: 

"_*If you think $3000 is a bit steep, you might be interested to know that Masaya Maeda - Chief Executive of Imaging Products at Canon - agrees. He tells us he's saving up his own money to buy one. *_We'll be publishing an interview with Mr. Maeda very soon."

fount at: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5992168440/cp-2015-canon-shows-off-new-eos-5ds-and-5ds-r?slide=6


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## Maiaibing (Feb 14, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



xps said:


> Interesting comment on the pricing od the 5DS:
> 
> "_*If you think $3000 is a bit steep, you might be interested to know that Masaya Maeda - Chief Executive of Imaging Products at Canon - agrees. He tells us he's saving up his own money to buy one. *_



Sounds very Japanese. He is probably saving up from the pocket money his wife gives him to buy it (ever wonder why the Japanese have one of the highest savings rate in the world?).

Apart from that I have never heard about Canon giving away or offering special-for-you-my-friend rebates on their gear to business associates (except for advertising partners and then for advertising purposes). The whole company seems very straight business like and may thus very well not offer their staff rebates. 

I remember working with another Japanese company with an equally strong corporate identity. I offered them a newspaper series on a remarkable employee development program they had to make sure their people 100% understood their product and business philosophy. However, the reply was: "No. The employees would only think we have too much money!"


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## rfdesigner (Feb 14, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



ajfotofilmagem said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > I'm one of those people that appreciates the fact that Canon has the best JPG quality out there. Their JPG processing, as well as the noise-reduction on JPG is the best. I don't care what you do with software, you can tweak those sliders all you want - Canon does it better in camera with the NR.
> ...



It certainly was true on the D3, I've also seen some comments about noise clipping on the D800, which artificially boosts DxO marks (probably expains the difference between Sony and Nikon DR on the same chip) 

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/nikon_test/test.htm

The guy who wrote this is increadably experieneced.. he was playing with CCDs on telescopes in the 1980s.. long before most professionals.


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## Ivan Muller (Feb 18, 2015)

*Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development*



rfdesigner said:


> What I noticed is that he talked about Mega-pixies and image quality, and for him a key determinator for image quality was the processor.
> 
> I think he may be making a mistake there.. won't most 5Ds users be shooting RAW?
> 
> The only user I can think of who would choose in camera processing are wedding photogs.. maybe they will be most of the customers for this but I though this was a studio/landscape camera, both of those users would want a RAW image surely?



I think what he meant was more the effect of the processor on extracting the data from the sensor and the effect on noise , colour, speed, sharpness etc etc rather than the jpeg conversions. Agreed many shoot Raw and so do I , but also just because mostly the jpegs are so soft and unacceptable(6D) if the jpegs are good I can think of quite a few situations where it would be advantageous. 

Have a look here at for jpeg quality straight from the camera(7d2). ( I believe sports are shot mostly on jpegs because of the sheer volume and deadlines) https://scottkelby.exposure.co/game-day-with-the-vols

I am going to shoot a test run of 50 packshots today to be loaded directly on the cloud, renamed etc and I am going to do it on jpeg. Eventually I will shoot 1000 packshots and I don't want to have to spend 1sec more than I have to, on PP.

What it looks like to me is that Canon has a certain standards of what their cameras and the image quality thereof should adhere to, regardless of what WE may think it should be...The interview was quite informative as to those reasons and thinking. Bottom line for me is that I am extremely happy with my Canon stuff and the reliability thereof, including image quality, lens quality and sheer breath and depth of lenses and other acessories for every application. They must be doing something right in my book....I cant wait for the nifty fifty!


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