# The Canon EOS R6 has shown up for certification



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 9, 2020)

> The Canon EOS R6 has shown up for certification under the name DS126831.
> *Canon EOS R6 Specifications: *(New information in *BOLD*)
> 
> 20mp full-frame CMOS sensor
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Twinix (May 9, 2020)

Interesting and exciting that we are getting there!


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## slclick (May 9, 2020)

This is something tangible, nice. Now for something from Canon, that will be info I can digest.


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## herein2020 (May 9, 2020)

I hope this camera will replace my GH5 it has so much potential...yet so many features could be crippled behind those great numbers. I only care about the video features so from my viewpoint:

*The good (so far)*
-Dual Card Slots
-20MP Sensor
-4K 60FPS
-Battery compatible with 5D4
-IBIS

*The wish list*
-Unlimited video recording
-XLR module
-False Color
-Waveforms
-Clog2 and Clog3
-Raw output over HDMI

*The ways they could cripple it*
-Record video to only a single card at a time
-Video recording limit
-Severe crop in 4k
-No DPAF in higher frame rates
-No audio at 60FPS

*My Estimated Price*
$2499.00USD

For me this one camera will determine if I give up on Canon video and get the EVA1 A camera and S1H B camera or I go all in on the Canon family and get the C300II A Camera and R6 as a Gimbal/B Camera.


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## derpderp (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> I hope this camera will replace my GH5 it has so much potential...yet so many features could be crippled behind those great numbers. I only care about the video features so from my viewpoint:
> 
> *The good (so far)*
> -Dual Card Slots
> ...



If you only care about video, why not just get the R5?


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## overniven (May 9, 2020)

So, Bluetooth 5 is 48MBps versus 24MBps for 4.2. It’s also 300meters versus 100m For range. The big issue is it is not backwards compatible with earlier versions of Bluetooth. Id love an R5, but I’m certain my wallet says R6.

I’ve really only used WiFi, does anyone use a lot of Bluetooth in cameras?


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## Fran Decatta (May 9, 2020)

Still wondering how the camera will look. Probably, will replace my actual R if the DR is the same (or at least a little bit better, please) and the AF system works even better, too. The R still doing a good job for me, also 30 mpx helps to do some crops, but double SD is very necessary for weddings, even at cost of those 10 extra mpx.



overniven said:


> Id love an R5, but I’m certain my wallet says R6.



Totally agree hahahaha


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## herein2020 (May 9, 2020)

derpderp said:


> If you only care about video, why not just get the R5?


Many Reasons:

*Shorter battery life* - powering a 45MP sensor and a top LCD display has to require more power than a 20MP sensor which = shorter battery life
*Low Light* - 20MP is the sweet spot for low light, at 45MP the R5 will probably not be as good at low light as the R6, even if it is, I still don't need 45MP for a 4K image
*Cost* - I simply do not need all of the additional features of the R5 (top LCD display, better weather sealing, higher quality EVF, etc) so why pay for them? Once it is in a cage you cannot use the top display, I've never used the EVF on my GH5 for video so I don't care about that, and in a cage the build quality of the camera is not as important.
*Sensor* - this ties to cost, why pay for a 45MP sensor when a 20MP sensor will do?
*Price Difference* - I believe the R5 will be $3999 and the R6 will be $2499, with that price difference I could buy plenty of accessories for the R6 and C300II
*Weight *- I need a gimbal camera, I'm pretty sure the R5 will weigh more than the R6 which is bad news on a gimbal.

If I were planning on replacing my 5DIV and GH5 with a single camera then I would opt for the R5, but I'm not sold on the EVF, RF mount, or other aspects of the new system and I love my 5D4 for photography. My goal is for the R6 and C300 to be the last video cameras I will need for the next 5-10yrs.


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## Bahrd (May 9, 2020)

overniven said:


> I’ve really only used WiFi, does anyone use a lot of Bluetooth in cameras?



It's a bit annoying, each time you want to connect to a camera via Wi-Fi, to turn it on, switch a phone to its network and start an app.

I suppose Bluetooth offers a permanent connection between the camera and a phone/computer.


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## dominic_siu (May 9, 2020)

overniven said:


> So, Bluetooth 5 is 48MBps versus 24MBps for 4.2. It’s also 300meters versus 100m For range. The big issue is it is not backwards compatible with earlier versions of Bluetooth. Id love an R5, but I’m certain my wallet says R6.
> 
> I’ve really only used WiFi, does anyone use a lot of Bluetooth in cameras?


For EOS R, you need to use Bluetooth to connect with the remote controller


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## Joules (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> *Shorter battery life* - powering a 45MP sensor and a top LCD display has to require more power than a 20MP sensor which = shorter battery life
> *Low Light* - 20MP is the sweet spot for low light, at 45MP the R5 will probably not be as good at low light as the R6, even if it is, I still don't need 45MP for a 4K image


I highly doubt you'll see a great difference in battery life between these cameras. If anything, the R6 might be a bit worse as it seems to tend towards reusing older, less efficient hardware and standards to save on cost. 

There is no such thing as a sweet spot for low light. If you insist on comparing images at 1:1 magnification, you're not comparing properly. 

If you get your R5 4K from downsampled 8K, it should definitely look as good or better than what the R6 can deliver.

Nothing wrong with going for a R6 over R5 (probably, we don't know anything official about the R6 after all), just pointing out some things to keep in mind.


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## Sharlin (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> *The wish list*
> -Unlimited video recording
> -XLR module
> -False Color
> ...



None of those are going to happen except perhaps 10-bit over HDMI. The R6 simply won’t be the video-oriented camera you hope it is.


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## scyrene (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> 20MP is the sweet spot for low light



Nope.


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## herein2020 (May 9, 2020)

Joules said:


> I highly doubt you'll see a great difference in battery life between these cameras. If anything, the R6 might be a bit worse as it seems to tend towards reusing older, less efficient hardware and standards to save on cost.
> 
> There is no such thing as a sweet spot for low light. If you insist on comparing images at 1:1 magnification, you're not comparing properly.
> 
> ...



If the R6 is using a slight variation of the 1DXIII sensor then it will definitely be pretty efficient and a low light monster. There is a reason why every low light version of a camera line (i.e. A7S, GH5S, etc) has a lower resolution sensor than their stills equivalents (larger photosites). One possibility is that it is reusing the 1DXII sensor which is still good enough for me. Other than those two sensors, Canon would have needed to create a new 20MP sensor for the R6 which would have been far costlier which is why I think it more likely it is from the 1DX line. Technically 12MP would have been even better.

Also with the lower resolution sensor Canon can use a cheaper processor yet still support features like full sensor readout, DPAF at higher frame rates, etc. Canon knows they have been behind for years in the mirrorless video department, the R5's 8K video shows they are finally listening and the R6 could be part II to their video lineup. People keep forgetting how short the list is of FF cameras that can do 4K60FPS.



Sharlin said:


> None of those are going to happen except perhaps 10-bit over HDMI. The R6 simply won’t be the video-oriented camera you hope it is.



The reality is that no one here knows that which is why it is a rumors site. To me 20MP only makes sense for a video oriented camera or something like the 1DXIII. So yea..I have my wish list and I consider it to be realistic. I am aware that I have the unpopular opinion that the R6 is a video oriented camera, but I'm ok with that, so far not a single released spec says otherwise; to the contrary the 20MP sensor supports my theory.


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## navastronia (May 9, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> None of those are going to happen except perhaps 10-bit over HDMI. The R6 simply won’t be the video-oriented camera you hope it is.



How do you know?


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## padam (May 9, 2020)

navastronia said:


> How do you know?


The dynamic range will be limited starting right from the (cheaper) sensor, so it won't have C-Log because there is no point in it and IPB codec only.

Apart from being able to shoot at similar frame rates as the 1DX III, this camera will be much more limited in comparison (considering it costs almost three times less with IBIS, this is hardly surprising) and the EOS R can remain as the cheapest camera to offer C-Log as well.

It is still going to have way more, than what they've used to offer in a 6D level camera and its pricing after a few months will be aggressive compared to what we've seen from Canon.

People have two more months to dream until the announcement, enjoy it while it lasts


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## SecureGSM (May 9, 2020)

padam said:


> The dynamic range will be limited starting right from the (cheaper) sensor, so it won't have C-Log because there is no point in it and IPB codec only.
> 
> Apart from being able to shoot at similar frame rates as the 1DX III, this camera will be much more limited in comparison (considering it costs almost three times less with IBIS, this is hardly surprising) and the EOS R can remain as the cheapest camera to offer C-Log as well.
> 
> ...


++++ The dynamic range will be limited starting right from the (cheaper) sensor, 

Keen to understand where is that information coming from?

Canon won't re use 6d II/ RP sensor in this. sensor in R6 is likely an "IBIS mod" of the 1Dx III sensor known to have a fast readout. Hence DR should not be an issue.


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## deleteme (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> I hope this camera will replace my GH5 it has so much potential...yet so many features could be crippled behind those great numbers. I only care about the video features so from my viewpoint:
> 
> *The good (so far)*
> -Dual Card Slots
> ...


Seems unlikely that Canon would put all your dream specs in the budget model.


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## herein2020 (May 9, 2020)

padam said:


> The dynamic range will be limited starting right from the (cheaper) sensor, so it won't have C-Log because there is no point in it and IPB codec only.
> 
> Apart from being able to shoot at similar frame rates as the 1DX III, this camera will be much more limited in comparison (considering it costs almost three times less with IBIS, this is hardly surprising) and the EOS R can remain as the cheapest camera to offer C-Log as well.
> 
> ...



The EOS R IMO was a placeholder that Canon can't replace fast enough so nothing to protect.

We already know this will be limited compared to the 1DXIII (no RAW in camera, no 5.5K, lower photography performance, no top display, less weather sealing, etc.) but none of those limitations would affect Clog, DR, or codec selection. I also don't see Canon offering IPB only; once again...Canon is playing catchup, and they have new sensors, new tech, and a new hunger to come out on top. Going all in will hopefully be the new Canon norm.

The best part is...none of the features I want will cut into their R5 (higher resolution, top EVF, better weather sealing, better video specs), the 1DX, or the RP/entry level replacement, let alone the cinema line.



Normalnorm said:


> Seems unlikely that Canon would put all your dream specs in the budget model.



It does until you think about the fact that Panasonic already has all of these features as does Sony and none of these features eat into R5 specs.


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## SecureGSM (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> The EOS R IMO was a placeholder that Canon can't replace fast enough so nothing to protect.
> 
> We already know this will be limited compared to the 1DXIII (no RAW in camera, no 5.5K, lower photography performance, no top display, less weather sealing, etc.) but none of those limitations would affect Clog, DR, or codec selection. I also don't see Canon offering IPB only; once again...Canon is playing catchup, and they have new sensors, new tech, and a new hunger to come out on top. Going all in will hopefully be the new Canon norm.
> 
> ...



++++ The EOS R IMO was a placeholder that Canon can't replace fast enough so nothing to protect...

Correct, however R5 is there to replace R, and R6 - to replace RP.


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## herein2020 (May 9, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> ++++ The EOS R IMO was a placeholder that Canon can't replace fast enough so nothing to protect...
> 
> Correct, however R5 is there to replace R, and R6 - to replace RP.



That's where I disagree...20MP sensor, 4K60FPS, dual card slots, possibly reused 1DX sensor..no way is this entry level...I think the RP will be replaced by a new body below the R6. IMO an RP replacement would be (26+ MP, single card slot, 4K30FPS).

Canon doesn't need a "video focused" body if they have two cameras in their lineup (R5 and R6) that blow away the competition in the video department; oh and happen to take fantastic stills as well. But its going to be a completely different story if the R6 is heavily crippled.


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## padam (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> The EOS R IMO was a placeholder that Canon can't replace fast enough so nothing to protect.
> 
> We already know this will be limited compared to the 1DXIII (no RAW in camera, no 5.5K, lower photography performance, no top display, less weather sealing, etc.) but none of those limitations would affect Clog, DR, or codec selection. I also don't see Canon offering IPB only; once again...Canon is playing catchup, and they have new sensors, new tech, and a new hunger to come out on top. Going all in will hopefully be the new Canon norm.
> 
> ...


The EOS R is the predecessor of the EOS R5 while the EOS RP is the predecessor of the EOS R6 but the new models are placed higher so no models will be replaced at all, they all have their uses.
You either get the EOS R or the R5 to have C-Log or you get the R6 with IBIS dual card slots, better ISO and advanced frame rates but less megapixels and no C-Log.

Again people are completely wrong about the sensor, the most likely scenario that it is a cheaper sensor with less DR and slower readout but with good ISO performance. This is still the cheapest Canon camera to offer many features, and people just keep complaining not to have everything and running the same circles over and over again, thinking that Canon releases a cheap camera with higher-end features.

Neither Panasonic nor Sony have the Canon ecosystem with DPAF integration or a FF camera with a swivel screen etc. each camera has its advantages and not 'owning' another.

Canon did perfectly fine with "abandoning" video in DSLRs, so they really don't have to offer an unlimited cheap model to cut their profits and cannibalise their own models, they are just slowly giving more and more lower down the product line.

Even without IBIS, people still bought Canon cameras for video, if that works well on the R6 (probably much better than the Sony while Nikon and Panasonic don't have a lot of lenses with dual IS capability), the rest can be considered as a 'bonus'.


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## Joules (May 9, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> Technically 12MP would have been even better.


We'll see. I bet if you compare an R6 image and a R5 image downscaled to the same resolution, you won't notice the difference.

If you think otherwise, feel free to provide us with a comparison that shows how a lower resolution sensor outperforms a higher resolution one from the same generation when compared at the same magnification.

Edit: To avoid confusion, here is what I'm talking about:






Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review


Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.




www.dpreview.com





The differences between these sensors are pretty marginal, despite wildy different resolutions.


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## Twinix (May 9, 2020)

8K will take more power and is harder to get precise autofocus, and we also don’t know the recording limit. Im really excited for the R6, way over the r5 even though I could aford it.


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## AEWest (May 9, 2020)

padam said:


> The dynamic range will be limited starting right from the (cheaper) sensor, so it won't have C-Log because there is no point in it and IPB codec only.
> 
> Apart from being able to shoot at similar frame rates as the 1DX III, this camera will be much more limited in comparison (considering it costs almost three times less with IBIS, this is hardly surprising) and the EOS R can remain as the cheapest camera to offer C-Log as well.
> 
> ...


How do you know what the pricing will be?


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## padam (May 9, 2020)

AEWest said:


> How do you know what the pricing will be?


We don't, but we know it is a cut price model with a cheaper EVF and LCD screen and no top display (this also saves power, so the battery life will be great), it is called the R6 for a reason

The 6D and 6D Mark II cost 1900$ and 2000$ upon their release so this could be in the same ballpark as well (maybe a little higher, since it is still blowing them away with all the features - except the dynamic range).


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## Shane (May 9, 2020)

I hope it has a joystick. I would love this purely for wedding receptions and low light. I am loving the R with a 28-70 f2 for receptions but i am so used to the 5DIV and I like to choose my focus point. The drag on the rear screen is good but not as fast as a joystick. I am excited about the R5 having one. It's not a deal breaker, but would be nice.


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## slclick (May 9, 2020)

Boy, if you piece all these comments together this is going to be Canon's hybrid 'Film Noir' body. What else would you do with the low light video centric beast? A documentary on Joy Division?


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## navastronia (May 9, 2020)

20MP still doesn't make sense in a new 6D body, in 2020 

I know many people on this forum disagree with me, but unless Canon is actually redefining what a 6D even _means _(entirely possible), this is not a 6D.

It's just not specced like one. Aside from the sensor being so low-rez, no 6D has ever had 2 card slots, yet this does. No 6D has ever matched the shooting speed of the corresponding 5D body available at the time of its release (6D - 4.5 fps, 5Diii - 6.0 fps / 6Dii - 6.0 fps, 5Div - 7.0 fps), and yet this camera does ("R6" - 12 fps mechanical, 20 electronic, R5 - 12 fps mechanical, 20 fps electronic).

I refuse to believe that this is really a 6D successor until we get the specs (not to mention the name of the body!) confirmed by Canon.


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## padam (May 9, 2020)

navastronia said:


> 20MP still doesn't make sense in a new 6D body, in 2020
> 
> I know many people on this forum disagree with me, but unless Canon is actually redefining what a 6D even _means _(entirely possible), this is not a 6D.
> 
> ...


Literally everything leaked about the R5 were correct (8K RAW 30fps video was so surprising, that initially CR thought maybe it is a timelapse mode or something, but even that was spot on)
So it is likely that the same source provided the correct R6 specs (name) as well. Maybe it does not track at the full 12fps frame rate or it simply not able to track as well as the R5 with a simpler processor.

The 6D Mark II was used for vlogging by some, but this could be the best vlogging camera ever, while also being great as a wedding, travel camera etc. it has many different uses, just like an A7III (or A7IV, which will likely to stay at 24MP as well).


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## AEWest (May 9, 2020)

navastronia said:


> 20MP still doesn't make sense in a new 6D body, in 2020
> 
> I know many people on this forum disagree with me, but unless Canon is actually redefining what a 6D even _means _(entirely possible), this is not a 6D.
> 
> ...


I agree. An updated R with joystick and IBIS would be perfect for a lot of people - I love the 32mp for landscapes.


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## SteveC (May 9, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I agree. An updated R with joystick and IBIS would be perfect for a lot of people - I love the 32mp for landscapes.



I'd probably jump on that.

As it sits right now, if the R5 is too expensive--I'll just get an RP. Yes, it's missing a lot but it's dirt cheap, and no touchbar.


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## slclick (May 9, 2020)

navastronia said:


> 20MP still doesn't make sense in a new 6D body, in 2020
> 
> I know many people on this forum disagree with me, but unless Canon is actually redefining what a 6D even _means _(entirely possible), this is not a 6D.
> 
> ...



Gotta let go of the old 6D canons. This is a new Canon!


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## navastronia (May 9, 2020)

slclick said:


> Gotta let go of the old 6D canons. This is a new Canon!



hahahah, I mean yeah, I guess so, if this all proves true


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## padam (May 9, 2020)

Shane said:


> I hope it has a joystick. I would love this purely for wedding receptions and low light. I am loving the R with a 28-70 f2 for receptions but i am so used to the 5DIV and I like to choose my focus point. The drag on the rear screen is good but not as fast as a joystick. I am excited about the R5 having one. It's not a deal breaker, but would be nice.


They did put a joystick on the 90D, which they haven't done before, but it was a bigger body with plenty of space.

Without the top LCD and cheaper build quality I can see this camera evolving from the RP (but with big battery and dual card slots squeezed in), but with the mode dial plus separate back dial on the back instead of the mode button and wheel on the R and R5, I am not sure there is enough space for a joystick.

They have moved the cutout to open the swiwel screen on the R5 to the lower right corner, so maybe there is actually space if they do the same with the R6, but maybe with the smaller EVF, screen, mode dial, they have decided to keep it smaller instead.


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## brad-man (May 9, 2020)

I wonder why so many are so certain that the 6R will replace the RP. A 2 card body with the listed speed is not likely to be an entry level camera. I think the RP, in one form or another, will remain. Assuming Canon is not going to release an R mount crop camera, they need a cheap R for the huddled masses...


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## padam (May 9, 2020)

brad-man said:


> I wonder why so many are so certain that the 6R will replace the RP. A 2 card body with the listed speed is not likely to be an entry level camera. I think the RP, in one form or another, will remain. Assuming Canon is not going to release an R mount crop camera, they need a cheap R for the huddled masses...


People need to think of it this way, the A7III with dual card slots is an evolution of the A7II but that is now under 1000$ and the other is under 2000$ and they are both available for the moment.
No R model is going to be directly replaced for about 4 years, but the family of R cameras has been expanded by evolution. (if someone is fine without IBIS they can go back to the older models but it is likely, that all future models will have it from now on)


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## BillB (May 9, 2020)

SteveC said:


> As it sits right now, if the R5 is too expensive--I'll just get an RP. Yes, it's missing a lot but it's dirt cheap, and no touchbar.



I have the 5DIV, and I am not ready to pull thr trigger on a mirrorless yet, but if I did, I would gladly put up with the touch bar to get the Canon R sensor.


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## sanj (May 9, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Nope.


Yes. Nope is correct.


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## padam (May 9, 2020)

sanj said:


> Yes. Nope is correct.


Stills is one thing, video is another, it if shoots full sensor 4K in some form, it will get a big low-light boost compared to any Canon before the 1DX III, so in some ways it can be considered as an A7SII/A7III rival for video, but I think a major limitation of some sorts will be coming, if it is aimed at the 2000$ mark with great IBIS and battery life.

Of course the R5 sensor could be the exception, being the only one above 24MP that can read out the sensor part of sensor during video recording.
Which means that we will see more higher-resolution sensors with less image penalties for video, but they will cost way more (and may produce a fair amount of heat, etc.)


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## SteveC (May 9, 2020)

BillB said:


> I have the 5DIV, and I am not ready to pull thr trigger on a mirrorless yet, but if I did, I would gladly put up with the touch bar to get the Canon R sensor.



Truth be told, I've gone back and forth on that one. But if I recall correctly, I was responding to a comment about a hypothetical R-II with no touchbar and IBIS.

Rs just might get super-cheap too.


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## herein2020 (May 10, 2020)

Joules said:


> We'll see. I bet if you compare an R6 image and a R5 image downscaled to the same resolution, you won't notice the difference.
> 
> If you think otherwise, feel free to provide us with a comparison that shows how a lower resolution sensor outperforms a higher resolution one from the same generation when compared at the same magnification.
> 
> ...



You are referring to photography comparisons not video. The A7S and GH5S both went with lower resolutions to improve low light video performance. The Cinema series has 8.8MP sensors and 15 stops of DR, so yes, smaller sensors with larger photosites for better low light performance is not just a myth; actual camera manufacturers prove it each time they release a video oriented body; they all get smaller resolution sensors.

Sony A7S








Sony A7S Preview – A low resolution marvel for low-light & video? - DXOMARK


Sony has expanded its range of full-frame mirrorless cameras with the launch of the Sony A7S. Joining the Sony A7 and A7R, the new A7S offers a lower resolution 12.2Mp sensor with an ISO 50–409,600 sensitivity range, and breaks boundaries for video with its 4K/30p video footage output.




www.dxomark.com





GH5S - smaller sensor to improve low light video performance








Panasonic Cut the Lumix GH5S' Resolution in Half to Get Even Better Low-Light Images


Panasonic’s Lumix GH5 is already one of the top picks for people who want mirrorless camera that captures high quality 4K video. So what could the company possible do to make it even better? Apparently, it seems the answer is to slash its megapixels in half.




gizmodo.com





Two sensors with the same physical size with all else being equal and the lower resolution sensor will outperform the higher resolution sensor in low light scenarios. By dropping down to 20MP for the R6 Canon was probably able to reuse an existing sensor (1DXII or III) and was able to achieve great low light performance for a lower cost. Less data to read from a smaller sensor means cheaper processor required and equal or better low light performance than a higher resolution sensor (i.e. R5). Yes side by side the low light performance of the R5 vs the R6 may be indistinguishable; but I think that would actually be perfect, getting the low light performance or better than the R5 at the R6's price.

Want even more proof? The C500 Mark II is Canon's full frame Cinema camera and retails for $16K...guess what the sensor resolution is: you guessed it 20MP.






Specifications & Features - Canon EOS C500 Mark II - Canon Europe







www.canon-europe.com





Everything about the R6 to me points to a video and low light beast at a very economical price point. The places where Canon cut corners so far do not affect the video performance at all. Of course if we start talking about crop factors, missing codecs, missing DPAF at certain frame rates, etc. then we know the new Canon isn't so new.


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## Joules (May 10, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> You are referring to photography comparisons not video.


Yes. But even for video, since Canon can do 8K 30p full sensor RAW on the R5, downsampling that should give us the same situation as with stills. It should deliver very similar quality to what a lower resolution sensor would, but with the potential for more accurate color detail and better noise reduction.

I'm not denying that Canon must have a good reason for going with the 20 MP sensor here or that it probably helps with cost or that a R5 will be overkill for many. I'm just saying that the negative attitude some still have towards high pixel counts is poorly justified with arguments about low light. Now, take rolling shutter or file size or FPS and you have a good point. Processing as well in theory, although there could also be a significant overlap in parts here to save costs.


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## herein2020 (May 10, 2020)

Joules said:


> Yes. But even for video, since Canon can do 8K 30p full sensor RAW on the R5, downsampling that should give us the same situation as with stills. It should deliver very similar quality to what a lower resolution sensor would, but with the potential for more accurate color detail and better noise reduction.
> 
> I'm not denying that Canon must have a good reason for going with the 20 MP sensor here or that it probably helps with cost or that a R5 will be overkill for many. I'm just saying that the negative attitude some still have towards high pixel counts is poorly justified with arguments about low light. Now, take rolling shutter or file size or FPS and you have a good point. Processing as well in theory, although there could also be a significant overlap in parts here to save costs.



The thing is, you are taking my statements out of context. I have never said its low light performance will be better than the R5; in fact I never compared it's low light performance to any other camera. All I've ever said is that at 20MP this camera will be a lowlight beast. That to me simply means minimal noise in lowlight situations where traditionally cameras at its price point would suffer.

Will it outperform xyz camera in low light tests? Personally I couldn't care less, if it meets or exceeds my own personal expectations for lowlight performance that's all that matters. All I've ever said is that with a 20MP sensor it is off to a great start in the low light department.


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## dslrdummy (May 10, 2020)

BillB said:


> I have the 5DIV, and I am not ready to pull thr trigger on a mirrorless yet, but if I did, I would gladly put up with the touch bar to get the Canon R sensor.


The touch bar can be disabled or, as I do, assigned a function (iso) but locked so that it isn't activated accidentally. One of those adjustments that you get used to while enjoying the benefits of mirrorless. But then I also shoot with a Leica M so working a bit more slowly doesn't worry me in most situations.


----------



## Skux (May 10, 2020)

overniven said:


> I'd love an R5, but I’m certain my wallet says R6.



I'm in the same boat haha. I want one camera that I can use for gigs (dual card slots), street (compact), filming shows (4k with good battery life) and the occasional wildlife outing (high fps). The R5 would be overkill for my needs and wallet, but the R6 could be just right.

I just hope it has 4k with DPAF with EF and EF-S lenses. No recording limit would be a bonus but I can live without it.


----------



## koch1948 (May 10, 2020)

BillB said:


> I have the 5DIV, and I am not ready to pull thr trigger on a mirrorless yet, but if I did, I would gladly put up with the touch bar to get the Canon R sensor.


What about an EOS 5D Mark V instead?


----------



## Mr Majestyk (May 10, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> I hope this camera will replace my GH5 it has so much potential...yet so many features could be crippled behind those great numbers. I only care about the video features so from my viewpoint:
> 
> *The good (so far)*
> -Dual Card Slots
> ...



Way too dear in this segment, same mistake Canon made with the EOS R. It will be up against the A7IV at similar time with talk of that coming around September and set to offer 4K60p as well. It won't have the crippling your worrying about either, although I doubt Canon would cripple the R6 in those ways.


----------



## Michael Clark (May 10, 2020)

BillB said:


> I have the 5DIV, and I am not ready to pull thr trigger on a mirrorless yet, but if I did, I would gladly put up with the touch bar to get the Canon R sensor.



Isn't the EOS R sensor the same as the 5D Mark IV sensor with slightly different microlenses?


----------



## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> What about an EOS 5D Mark V instead?


No chance to use RF glass if such a camera is ever made.


----------



## slclick (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> No chance to use RF glass if such a camera is ever made.


I heard there's a few of those EF lenses out there...


----------



## SecureGSM (May 10, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I'd probably jump on that.
> 
> As it sits right now, if the R5 is too expensive--I'll just get an RP. Yes, it's missing a lot but it's dirt cheap, and no touchbar.


That’s exactly how Canon slicing and dicing their customer base within a single product category :
Both grate cameras. One is a fully featured product sold at premium and a second product, still great but missing some of the top shelf features of the premium product but affordable at the same time.


----------



## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

slclick said:


> I heard there's a few of those EF lenses out there...


True but right away you are taking away the possibility of using any of Canon's most modern lenses. Some won't care but it is worth considering when making a camera purchase decision.


----------



## motofotog (May 10, 2020)

Is Bluetooth 4.2 compatible with mobile devises having Bluetooth 5.0?


----------



## Proscribo (May 10, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> You are referring to photography comparisons not video. The A7S and GH5S both went with lower resolutions to improve low light video performance. The Cinema series has 8.8MP sensors and 15 stops of DR, so yes, smaller sensors with larger photosites for better low light performance is not just a myth; actual camera manufacturers prove it each time they release a video oriented body; they all get smaller resolution sensors.


Or could it be... you know... that lower resolution is (was) perfectly enough for video as 4K is just over 8MP. This gives lower rolling shutter, eases off the load on the processor, and I figure makes manufacturing the sensor somewhat cheaper.


----------



## rwvaughn (May 10, 2020)

Fran Decatta said:


> Still wondering how the camera will look. Probably, will replace my actual R if the DR is the same (or at least a little bit better, please) and the AF system works even better, too. The R still doing a good job for me, also 30 mpx helps to do some crops, but double SD is very necessary for weddings, even at cost of those 10 extra mpx.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally agree hahahaha



Where have you seen that it dual SD? I personally wouldn't expect them to be the same format.


----------



## rwvaughn (May 10, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> What about an EOS 5D Mark V instead?





AEWest said:


> No chance to use RF glass if such a camera is ever made.



And honestly... a 5DV is looking more and more unlikely.


----------



## Otara (May 10, 2020)

overniven said:


> So, Bluetooth 5 is 48MBps versus 24MBps for 4.2. It’s also 300meters versus 100m For range. The big issue is it is not backwards compatible with earlier versions of Bluetooth. Id love an R5, but I’m certain my wallet says R6.
> 
> I’ve really only used WiFi, does anyone use a lot of Bluetooth in cameras?



It can be great, but its implementation varies a bit between cameras, even within Canon.


----------



## herein2020 (May 10, 2020)

Proscribo said:


> Or could it be... you know... that lower resolution is (was) perfectly enough for video as 4K is just over 8MP. This gives lower rolling shutter, eases off the load on the processor, and I figure makes manufacturing the sensor somewhat cheaper.


I take it you did not read the articles in the links where they state the sensors were made with lower resolution to improve low light performance. You are missing the bigger discussion here which is that it is well documented that camera makers pick lower resolution sensors for their video oriented bodies when targeting low light improvements.


----------



## The Fat Fish (May 10, 2020)

[URL='http://i.viglink.com/?key=4d330a4797ea127575531d3ebd1213b0&insertId=29d9fbc356e2f2d5&type=KW&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=ka0xkotd0100y11i000MAconf37du&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canonrumors.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fthreads%2Fthe-canon-eos-r6-has-shown-up-for-certification.38559%2F&v=1&iid=29d9fbc356e2f2d5&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.maplin.co.uk%2Fhobbyist%3Fmanufacturer%3D254&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canonrumors.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Flogin%2F&title=The%20Canon%20EOS%20R6%20has%20shown%20up%20for%20certification%20%7C%20Canon%20Rumors&txt=%3Cspan%3ECanon%3C%2Fspan%3E']Canon[/URL] Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


20mp is still really disappointing.


----------



## peters (May 10, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> *The wish list*
> -Unlimited video recording
> -XLR module
> -False Color
> ...


I think most of these things can be "added" with an external monitor. I personaly think they will not include any of these features in the camera. the limited video recording is a tax-problem though, not a technical one. 

*



The ways they could cripple it

Click to expand...

*


> -Record video to only a single card at a time
> -Video recording limit
> -Severe crop in 4k
> -No DPAF in higher frame rates
> -No audio at 60FPS


I am sure they will find some other additional ways to cripple it :-D Its amazing how creative Canon gets when it comes to that :-D I guess they will offer some severe rolling shutter in 4k as well


----------



## Kjsheldo (May 10, 2020)

This is not really a low end model. Not like the RP. This is going to be more like the S1, A7IV, Z6, etc - the do everything well all-rounder.

The R5 is obviously the high end (outside of 1DX series) and this will be the more mass model for those who don’t need 8k and 45 megapixels.

I think the $2499 -$2999 price range is likely. Just hoping for 10-bit 422 in 4k in full frame c log.


----------



## Mark3794 (May 10, 2020)

I see people angry about the 20 megapixels... Do you know it is probably a repurposed 1DX mark II or III sensor? I mean a flagship sensor in a sub 3000$ body would be fantastic.
Knowing Canon, they will tell that this is an "all new" sensor like they did with EOS R and RP, but i'm pretty sure that they would be crazy to develop another sensor just for the R6 after they already developed the 45 mp monster in the R5 and the 32,5 mp in the M6 mark II.


----------



## Go Wild (May 10, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> I see people angry about the 20 megapixels... Do you know it is probably a repurposed 1DX mark II or III sensor? I mean a flagship sensor in a sub 3000$ body would be fantastic.
> Knowing Canon, they will tell that this is an "all new" sensor like they did with EOS R and RP, but i'm pretty sure that they would be crazy to develop another sensor just for the R6 after they already developed the 45 mp monster in the R5 and the 32,5 mp in the M6 mark II.



Having 20mp is not a problem at all, but i guess for people who buy cameras only because spec sheets and not the real usability of the camera, then yes, that could be a major problem! My 1dxmkII has a fabulous 20mp sensor. In last 4 years gave me a huge amount of great shots and I absolutely love this camera. And yeap..."only" have 20mp. Of course that if you have a higher resolution camera that could help a bit in image quality or the possibility to crop...but if you want that you have another possibilities like the R5 or even the EOS R. I believe the EOS R6 would fit the needs of the "all around" photographer or Vlogger, or even content creator. A smaller body but with great skills. Personaly I think it would be a great camera for those who don´t need the whole pack of the EOS R5,. It will be great for video and great for all around photographers. And if you do care about MP and no so much about video, I do believe Canon will release a new R body aimed to MP and to Stills. Just have to wait a bit longer. 
For me....I am incredibly anxious to get the R5, definitely that camera is my "dream camera". I am now ready to let go my beloved 1dx mkII.....


----------



## Fran Decatta (May 10, 2020)

rwvaughn said:


> Where have you seen that it dual SD? I personally wouldn't expect them to be the same format.


You're right... may be in some time I though that they would chose to use double SD instead of CFexpress+SD due to his lack of video features (like raw video) also to keep distances from R5 (may be will have a shorter buffer than this one). But I'm just guessing


----------



## AaronT (May 10, 2020)

motofotog said:


> Is Bluetooth 4.2 compatible with mobile devises having Bluetooth 5.0?


Yes!


----------



## slclick (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> True but right away you are taking away the possibility of using any of Canon's most modern lenses. Some won't care but it is worth considering when making a camera purchase decision.


EF lenses, especially anything made in the past 5-8 years is going to be top notch quality for time and all eternity. If RF wasn't ever released, no one would be in want of a large new line of lenses from Canon, we'd be right back to talking up how certain glass is almost flawless and how they need to put it this one or two lens. etc etc. All I hear is GAS and new toy syndrome in your post.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (May 10, 2020)

slclick said:


> EF lenses, especially anything made in the past 5-8 years is going to be top notch quality for time and all eternity. If RF wasn't ever released, no one would be in want of a large new line of lenses from Canon, we'd be right back to talking up how certain glass is almost flawless and how they need to put it this one or two lens. etc etc. All I hear is GAS and new toy syndrome in your post.


Unless you want a great 50mm lens.. then the EF range doesn't really satisfy IMO


----------



## Kit. (May 10, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> You are referring to photography comparisons not video. The A7S and GH5S both went with lower resolutions to improve low light video performance.


Says who?



herein2020 said:


> The Cinema series has 8.8MP sensors and 15 stops of DR, so yes, smaller sensors with larger photosites for better low light performance is not just a myth; actual camera manufacturers prove it each time they release a video oriented body; they all get smaller resolution sensors.


How about they do it for other, more plausible reasons, like lower sensor bandwidth required to get the same 4K image?



herein2020 said:


> Two sensors with the same physical size with all else being equal and the lower resolution sensor will outperform the higher resolution sensor in low light scenarios.


Follows from what?



herein2020 said:


> Want even more proof? The C500 Mark II is Canon's full frame Cinema camera and retails for $16K...guess what the sensor resolution is: you guessed it 20MP.


Why would it _need_ higher resolution? What for?


----------



## SecureGSM (May 10, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> Unless you want a great 50mm lens.. then the EF range doesn't really satisfy IMO


There are some pretty convincing offerings from Tamron, Sigma, Zeiss and others. Just to be fair


----------



## mikedidi46 (May 10, 2020)

Will this R6 have un-cropped 4K?


----------



## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

slclick said:


> EF lenses, especially anything made in the past 5-8 years is going to be top notch quality for time and all eternity. If RF wasn't ever released, no one would be in want of a large new line of lenses from Canon, we'd be right back to talking up how certain glass is almost flawless and how they need to put it this one or two lens. etc etc. All I hear is GAS and new toy syndrome in your post.


I guess you are then saying that to anyone who has bought an RF lens or camera?

Maybe we should all abandon the thought of ever updating our cameras since I'm sure we all have excellent photos with our old gear. Then there is no point in following this thread.


----------



## Canon-Chas (May 10, 2020)

If R6 and R5 were same price I'm guessing almost everyone would take the R5, 20MP does not cut it these days especially when you need to crop in a fair bit


----------



## caffetin (May 10, 2020)

can someone explain to me why I should buy a r6 with 20 mp instead of leaving a 6d with 24 mp?


----------



## privatebydesign (May 10, 2020)

caffetin said:


> can someone explain to me why I should buy a r6 with 20 mp instead of leaving a 6d with 24 mp?


if you think the only differences between an R6 and a 6D is 4mp then no, nobody can explain it to you.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 10, 2020)

Canon-Chas said:


> If R6 and R5 were same price I'm guessing almost everyone would take the R5, 20MP does not cut it these days especially when you need to crop in a fair bit


Doesn’t cut it for whom exactly? Professionals providing tens of thousands of images daily using 1 series cameras seem to manage with 20 mp even on the newest iteration.


----------



## The Fat Fish (May 10, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> I see people angry about the 20 megapixels... Do you know it is probably a repurposed 1DX mark II or III sensor? I mean a flagship sensor in a sub 3000$ body would be fantastic.
> Knowing Canon, they will tell that this is an "all new" sensor like they did with EOS R and RP, but i'm pretty sure that they would be crazy to develop another sensor just for the R6 after they already developed the 45 mp monster in the R5 and the 32,5 mp in the M6 mark II.


I'm not so much angry, just a little dissapointed. I'm still an owner of the original 6D and was looking for a meaningful upgrade. I'd like IBIS, a moderate megapixel upgrade, a significant dynamic range upgrade and a significant video upgrade, all of which are reasonable expectations when upgrading from a 2012 to a 2020 camera.

As upgrade options we have had the following:

6D MKII - Good resolution bump but a dynamic range and video downgrade/no progress. Also no IBIS.
EOS RP - Mirrorless version of the 6D MKII so all the same issues.
EOS R - Good resolution upgrade, fair dynamic range upgrade but frustratingly sub-par video features. Also no IBIS.

I want a meaningful upgrade to my 6D and Canon so far are not interested in offering it.


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (May 10, 2020)

*What is a "top-down" screen?*

*??*


----------



## SteveC (May 10, 2020)

rwvaughn said:


> And honestly... a 5DV is looking more and more unlikely.


To say nothing of the fact that the original comment said "If I ever make the jump to mirrorless" and this guy responds by naming a mirrored camera.


----------



## bbb34 (May 10, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> *What is a "top-down" screen?
> 
> ??*



The tiny info display that one can see looking down onto the top of the camera.

Not to confuse with the large back-forward screen!


----------



## bbb34 (May 10, 2020)

rwvaughn said:


> And honestly... a 5DV is looking more and more unlikely.


It ain't over till the fat lady sings.


----------



## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> It ain't over till the fat lady sings.


Absolutely true - Canon has not indicated one way or another about the future of the D series. Therefore we are left to speculate. Perfect for a rumours site!


----------



## BillB (May 10, 2020)

The Fat Fish said:


> As upgrade options we have had the following:
> 
> 6D MKII - Good resolution bump but a dynamic range and video downgrade/no progress. Also no IBIS.
> EOS RP - Mirrorless version of the 6D MKII so all the same issues.
> ...


Well, the R5 or the 5DIV would be meaningful upgrades, but I‘m guessing is that they are more meaningful than you want to pay for. Rumors say that the R6 will have IBIS, so there is that. You might want to see how the R6 sensor actually performs before you write that option off. Anyway , the 6D is not a bad camera.


----------



## usern4cr (May 10, 2020)

Canon-Chas said:


> If R6 and R5 were same price I'm guessing almost everyone would take the R5, 20MP does not cut it these days especially when you need to crop in a fair bit


First, we know the R6 is going to be less expensive than the R5, so I don't know why you'd phrase your question that way.

Second, I understand your concern about 20MP not being enough to crop from. That's a valid concern, and clearly it's much easier to crop from a 45MP sensor. I can tell you that 20MP is still a very good size sensor, and a 20MP Full Frame sensor is even better yet. I happen to currently have a 2x crop EM1mk2 20MP sensor, and I crop from it as often as I need to, and the resultant image, after careful care and interpolation in post, can yield photo prints of 32" wide or more that look beautiful and sharp up close. So for me a new 20MP Full Frame sensor, and a lens like the RF 24-105 f4 L IS USM, would be a step up for me and one to be quite proud of if that's all I could afford.

With that said, I will be stepping up to the R5 or future R5s and even better lenses which will be not just a step up for me, but "one giant leap!" for me. 

I'm very thankful for the lenses and new bodies Canon is providing, and for the two different price points of those bodies.


----------



## Max TT (May 10, 2020)

All the talk is about the R5. BUT the R6 has the potential to be the best selling mirrorless camera taking over from the Sony A7III.


----------



## Utonagan (May 10, 2020)

The R6 does look to be a better over all value. All be it i need to see the IQ first particularly when it comes to accuracy since the recent cameras i have tested have far too much software processing and i don't need my images too look cartoonish sooc. So much so that i went back and bought older models to avoid all the "auto bling!" that you cant' shut off with many modern cameras even the 5000$ ones (hint hint Nikon).
I did test the EOS-RP and it's decent . Not quite as accurate as the 7dmk2 on some details but not bad over all. However if the R6 can put out roughly the same as the Nikon D5 i would be more than willing to buy it with a decent multipurpose RF lens and ef-rf converter. Just enough to start out.


----------



## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

I too would prefer a 32mp camera especially for landscapes and cropping. 

Sometimes when composing a landscape image in the viewfinder then taking image back to computer I find that what looked good in viewfinder had too much sky or foreground etc on the big screen. So cropping latitude is very important for me when making large prints.


----------



## Architect1776 (May 10, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



This had better be dirt cheap.


----------



## Architect1776 (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I too would prefer a 32mp camera especially for landscapes and cropping.
> 
> Sometimes when composing a landscape image in the viewfinder then taking image back to computer I find that what looked good in viewfinder had too much sky or foreground etc on the big screen. So cropping latitude is very important for me when making large prints.



Totally agree needs 32-36 mp sensor to make sense.
This R6 looks like a mirrorless Rebel series camera.


----------



## Michael Clark (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I too would prefer a 32mp camera especially for landscapes and cropping.
> 
> Sometimes when composing a landscape image in the viewfinder then taking image back to computer I find that what looked good in viewfinder had too much sky or foreground etc on the big screen. So cropping latitude is very important for me when making large prints.



If you're doing landscape from a tripod IBIS is not a consideration, so what is wrong with the EOS R?


----------



## navastronia (May 10, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> It ain't over till the fat lady sings.



The one thing I'd guess about a 5Dv is that it wouldn't have IBIS. That's the only thing I'm 90% sure of, and it would be to let IBIS be a draw for their mirrorless line, only.


----------



## The Fat Fish (May 10, 2020)

BillB said:


> Well, the R5 or the 5DIV would be meaningful upgrades, but I‘m guessing is that they are more meaningful than you want to pay for. Rumors say that the R6 will have IBIS, so there is that. You might want to see how the R6 sensor actually performs before you write that option off. Anyway , the 6D is not a bad camera.


The R5 so far sounds amazing but it's in a different category. It's a £3500-£4000 camera whereas the 6D was a £1500 camera. The 5DIV had all the same drawbacks as the EOS R but with a much higher price. It's a great camera for sure but I was expecting a lot more given the price and competition at the time of its release.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I too would prefer a 32mp camera especially for landscapes and cropping.
> 
> Sometimes when composing a landscape image in the viewfinder then taking image back to computer I find that what looked good in viewfinder had too much sky or foreground etc on the big screen. So cropping latitude is very important for me when making large prints.


At which point I'd say learn to take pictures, composition is just about all the camera manufacturers leave to us now and you want a safety net for that too?


----------



## usern4cr (May 10, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If you're doing landscape from a tripod IBIS is not a consideration, so what is wrong with the EOS R?


If you're doing your shots from a tripod, then IBIS is not a consideration. (and I'm not commenting on the R by itself, by the way)

But once you have a camera with good IBIS (and dual IS) and start handholding shots that look like you used a tripod, you'll (IMHO) never want to settle for a camera without IBIS.


----------



## flip314 (May 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Doesn’t cut it for whom exactly? Professionals providing tens of thousands of images daily using 1 series cameras seem to manage with 20 mp even on the newest iteration.



I mean, maybe I wouldn't need to crop so much in post if I could afford a 200-400 F4L IS Extender 1.4x...


----------



## privatebydesign (May 10, 2020)

flip314 said:


> I mean, maybe I wouldn't need to crop so much in post if I could afford a 200-400 F4L IS Extender 1.4x...


The various 150-600's have been shown to be excellent performers most of the time and can be bought new for a fraction the price.


----------



## Michael Clark (May 10, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If you're doing your shots from a tripod, then IBIS is not a consideration. (and I'm not commenting on the R by itself, by the way)
> 
> But once you have a camera with good IBIS (and dual IS) and start handholding shots that look like you used a tripod, you'll (IMHO) never want to settle for a camera without IBIS.




There's no substitute for a perfectly stationary camera. Not IS, not IBIS, not both combined. They buy a few stops, but they do not give the same total lack of movement that a solid platform with wired or wireless remote release does.


----------



## usern4cr (May 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> At which point I'd say learn to take pictures, composition is just about all the camera manufacturers leave to us now and you want a safety net for that too?


Like AEWest, I often decide to crop pictures in post. That in no way means that I need to "learn to take pictures" or "want a safety net for that too". I also grade my pictures, and the good ones are all converted from raw through careful post processing to a nice image - Does that mean I should have taken a better shot in the first place so I didn't need to do that?


----------



## usern4cr (May 10, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> There's no substitute for a perfectly stationary camera. Not IS, not IBIS, not both combined. They buy a few stops, but they do not give the same total lack of movement that a solid platform does.


If the subject is not moving, dual OIS & IBIS of (tested & verified) 6.5 stops can and will stop motion to look just like a tripod for all "reasonable intents and purposes". That reduces shake by a factor of 90 to 1! My EM1mk2 with 12-100 f4 and 300mm f4 pro lenses do exactly that. I also have a tripod, and use it when I do panoramas to get perfect repeatable position registration between pictures. But I also can take the same panoramas handheld with 6.5 stop dual IS and they still are as sharp and stitch together fine. If you have never seen real (tested & verified) 6.5 stop dual IS then you should. And a few makers have even gone beyond that now.

I'm looking forward to the R6, R5 & R5s IBIS with optical IS at the same time. It's harder to stabilize a FF sensor than a MFT sensor due to the increased mass, but if they can get it above 6 stops (verified) then it'll be spectacular.

My only comment about IS claims, is that they have to be tested & verified to be believed. I have seen some makers exaggerate them or say "up to" so many stops. If it's not verified, including on the particular lens you use, then "buyer beware".


----------



## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

navastronia said:


> The one thing I'd guess about a 5Dv is that it wouldn't have IBIS. That's the only thing I'm 90% sure of, and it would be to let IBIS be a draw for their mirrorless line, only.


Agreed. Probably not worth engineering IBIS into a camera with mirror at this point.


----------



## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> At which point I'd say learn to take pictures, composition is just about all the camera manufacturers leave to us now and you want a safety net for that too?


Pretty condescending. Many top pros crop photos. I will let them know that they don't how to take photos.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 10, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Like AEWest, I often decide to crop pictures in post. That in no way means that I need to "learn to take pictures" or "want a safety net for that too". I also grade my pictures, and the good ones are all converted from raw through careful post processing to a nice image - Does that mean I should have taken a better shot in the first place so I didn't need to do that?


If you are taking landscapes and are then relying on 60% more pixels to allow for cropping you are not doing your equipment justice and you are not seeing the shot in front of you. Sure there are always isolated instances where a preconceived image framing or aspect ratio doesn't fit with the format ratio you happen to have, but even so there are few instances where stitching can't work in landscapes to mitigate that kind of thing.

As for post processing, that has got nothing to do with it, digital capture, like negatives, requires processing, just take a look at any of your RAW files with dcraw to confirm that! Our eyes see things in a completely different way to the way digital sensors record scenes and people have always made adjustments to the way the chemistry or electronics record the scene to better present the photographers vision. Would I show you an unprocessed canister of film and ask for your opinion of my images?

I stand by my comment, if you are relying on 60% more pixels to correct your crop in post you are doing something wrong.



AEWest said:


> Pretty condescending. Many top pros crop photos. I will let them know that they don't how to take photos.


Few professionals regularly crop photos 35% because they didn't compose properly in the first place, but yes they do crop. I've seen sports shooters crop landscape orientation to portrait orientation and still get the cover of SI with 18mp cameras, and the last thing they were talking about was wishing they had more mp.

My reply to your comment stands, if you are getting home and realizing the landscape image in front of you actually needs cropping 40% you are doing something wrong. That's the equivalent of shooting with a medium format digital to get 135 format images, or paying for and carrying ff gear to get crop camera IQ. Why is that considered so condescending? It is factually correct.


----------



## padam (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Agreed. Probably not worth engineering IBIS into a camera with mirror at this point.


So they are working on these patents for no reasons at all.









Canon Patent Application: IBIS adjustment - DSLR illustrations


We have seen images that show a "DSLR" incorporating IBIS, but in the past, they haven't really described the DSLR system in detail, it was simply for illustration purposes, never has it been a clear part of the patent application. In this application, Canon still uses a DSLR as the...



www.canonnews.com





People complain about the video improvements. Well, even if they don't care with that at all, they could still upgrade to a camera, that suddenly gains IBIS with all native EF lenses. Although if dual IS is not working as the article assumes, then yes it makes more sense to just keep it for the RF-mount mirrorless cameras.

Either way, this is a Canon representative regarding their 5D line of cameras:


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## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> If you are taking landscapes and are then relying on 60% more pixels to allow for cropping you are not doing your equipment justice and you are not seeing the shot in front of you. Sure there are always isolated instances where a preconceived image framing or aspect ratio doesn't fit with the format ratio you happen to have, but even so there are few instances where stitching can't work in landscapes to mitigate that kind of thing.
> 
> As for post processing, that has got nothing to do with it, digital capture, like negatives, requires processing, just take a look at any of your RAW files with dcraw to confirm that! Our eyes see things in a completely different way to the way digital sensors record scenes and people have always made adjustments to the way the chemistry or electronics record the scene to better present the photographers vision. Would I show you an unprocessed canister of film and ask for your opinion of my images?
> 
> ...


At what point did I say 40%?


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## privatebydesign (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> At what point did I say 40%?


You were saying you wanted 32-34mp from the rumored 20mp, 20/32 = 62%, so a 40% crop.


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## unfocused (May 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> ...if you are getting home and realizing the landscape image in front of you actually needs cropping 40% you are doing something wrong,,,Why is that considered so condescending? It is factually correct.



Honestly, what difference does it make? If the final image is good, who are we to criticize if the photographer got there by cropping in camera or cropping on the computer?

Back in the 70s it was all the rage to print your photos showing the film edges so you could prove that the scene was exactly how you cropped in camera. I hope we've matured beyond that. 

There are any number of great photographers who like to sit on their exposures for days, weeks or even months to give the initial excitement time to cool down a bit and allow them to look at the images more dispassionately. It seems to me that there is nothing wrong with shooting an image and then later on, deciding that you like it cropped differently. 

Different people have different ways of seeing. Just because someone sees the composition more clearly when reviewing captures on their computer screen as opposed to in the field, that doesn't make them wrong.


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## Otara (May 10, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Pretty condescending. Many top pros crop photos. I will let them know that they don't how to take photos.



Its just gatekeeping, dont worry about it.


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## AEWest (May 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> You were saying you wanted 32-34mp from the rumored 20mp, 20/32 = 62%, so a 40% crop.


I said I wanted a 32mp camera. There are many legitimate reasons for cropping beyond not knowing how to compose:

Eg. What if I or a client wants a square image rather than 2x3 format? That is a 33% crop. If you haven't tried this, there are some very good images out there in this format.

What if you are unable to get closer to a subject than your lens or legs will allow, eg birds. Could have major cropping as a necessity in this instance.

My point is that there are many legitimate needs for cropping and having 60% more pixels available in a 32 mp camera over a 20 mp camera allows for far more latitude.


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## TracerHD (May 11, 2020)

If you crop a portrait orientation picture from a 44,7 MP landscape orientation picture you still get 19,88 MP.


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## Czardoom (May 11, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If you're doing your shots from a tripod, then IBIS is not a consideration. (and I'm not commenting on the R by itself, by the way)
> 
> But once you have a camera with good IBIS (and dual IS) and start handholding shots that look like you used a tripod, you'll (IMHO) never want to settle for a camera without IBIS.


Unless your lenses have IS, in which case IBIS is not of any particular importance. I think forum users sometimes forget that lens IS exists and many folks only own lenses with IS.


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## AEWest (May 11, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> There's no substitute for a perfectly stationary camera. Not IS, not IBIS, not both combined. They buy a few stops, but they do not give the same total lack of movement that a solid platform with wired or wireless remote release does.


I agree that for landscapes IBIS is unnecessary in most instances - I do use a tripod and self timer as you describe and get tack sharp images. 

But I also sometimes take indoor event photos where a tripod is impractical and flash not wanted so IBIS can help especially with shorter non IS lenses.

Unfortunately I can only afford to buy one camera (for marital bliss) so it has to tick as many boxes as possible.


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## usern4cr (May 11, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Unless your lenses have IS, in which case IBIS is not of any particular importance. I think forum users sometimes forget that lens IS exists and many folks only own lenses with IS.


If all your lenses have IS, then yes - you will always enjoy lens IS which might be as high as 5.0 as claimed by Canon. That is indeed very good. But I disagree in your saying that you will then not get any "particular importance" from a body with IBIS in that case. The dual IS will indeed give you more stops of IS than lens IS alone, even though it may only be an extra stop or two (it will depend on the lens IS and IBIS combination). 

To be clear, in your case I'm not saying that you have to get a body with IBIS, and yes - you can indeed enjoy the body(without IBIS) you already have since all your lenses have IS. But I will say that if you also get a body with IBIS that supports dual IS (which Canon says they do) then your dual IS will be even better. And one or two extra stops of IS is indeed something of "particular importance".


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## SteveC (May 11, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If all your lenses have IS, then yes - you will always enjoy lens IS which might be as high as 5.0 as claimed by Canon. That is indeed very good. But I disagree in your saying that you will then not get any "particular importance" from a body with IBIS in that case. The dual IS will indeed give you more stops of IS than lens IS alone, even though it may only be an extra stop or two (it will depend on the lens IS and IBIS combination).
> 
> To be clear, in your case I'm not saying that you have to get a body with IBIS, and yes - you can indeed enjoy the body(without IBIS) you already have since all your lenses have IS. But I will say that if you also get a body with IBIS that supports dual IS (which Canon says they do) then your dual IS will be even better. And one or two extra stops of IS is indeed something of "particular importance".



If I can't take 30 second milky way pictures from the camera while it's tumbling and bouncing down a rocky slope, then the IS is just inadequate.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (May 11, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> The tiny info display that one can see looking down onto the top of the camera.
> 
> Not to confuse with the large back-forward screen!



Thank you. I tried searching the term online and came up dry a month ago when I first heard the term.


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## H. Jones (May 11, 2020)

In this whole discussion of the crop, one of the more exciting things to me is that the R5 can shoot almost as many megapixels as the 5DS while maintaining 12-20 FPS. The 5DS' crop mode already turned the 50 megapixels into a roughly 20 megapixel crop camera, but that was far too slow for bird and wildlife photography. 

With the R5, in one camera I'll be able to both have the full frame sensor that I need for my professional work, along with a crop mode for my birding hobby that beats the FPS of the 7D Mark II while nearing the same resolution.

That said, the 20 megapixels of my 1DX Mark II is way more than enough in my professional work. Everything I send to the newspaper ends up downsized to 2 megapixels for print and web, so I've never been stressed about needing more pixels to crop. Honestly though it will be nice that the R5 could give me a bit more reach when I'm held back by the police at breaking news and have to bring out the long glass, but that's not a large portion of the job.


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## privatebydesign (May 11, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I said I wanted a 32mp camera. There are many legitimate reasons for cropping beyond not knowing how to compose:
> 
> Eg. What if I or a client wants a square image rather than 2x3 format? That is a 33% crop. If you haven't tried this, there are some very good images out there in this format.
> 
> ...


I wasn't addressing any other reasons, I was addressing the original one you made *"Sometimes when composing a landscape image in the viewfinder then taking image back to computer I find that what looked good in viewfinder had too much sky or foreground etc on the big screen."*

Of course there are many 'legitimate' reasons to crop, I don't think bad composition is one, but it seems I am in the minority.


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## privatebydesign (May 11, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Honestly, what difference does it make?


None.

But what is the harm in telling somebody if they are relying on a 60% crop due to mis-seeing the landscape composition in front of them, are they better advised buying a higher mp camera and cropping or learning how to see the scene in front of them?

Of course it is all subjective and there is no 'right or wrong' but we can all learn and we can all shoot better.


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## Joules (May 11, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Of course it is all subjective and there is no 'right or wrong' but we can all learn and we can all shoot better.


We can also enjoy the freedom to make mistakes that better technology affords us. As you say, there's no right or wrong. But you also said if you require cropping landscape shot, you're doing something wrong. I sure hope your in the minority there. I take pictures when I'm about alone but often also when I'm out with a friend. And it is more enjoyable to do a bit of photography on the side, casually, without obsessing over every thing when I have company, just as it is enjoyable to think a thing through when there is the time. To each their own.


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## privatebydesign (May 11, 2020)

Joules said:


> But you also said if you require cropping landscape shot, you're doing something wrong. I sure hope your in the minority there.



No I didn't, what I said was if you feel you can't get by with a 20mp camera and believe you need a 34mp camera because *"[When I get] back to computer I find that what looked good in viewfinder had too much sky or foreground etc"* then it probably isn't the mp at fault here. I then went on to say of course there are many 'legitimate' reasons to crop and further it is all subjective so there is no standard of legitimacy, people can do whatever they want! 

But I believe we owe more than that to our fellow forum dwellers, I believe we can all benefit from our combined knowledge and I'd rather say something unpopular that makes a difference than nod approvingly whilst telling somebody they need to spend x thousand dollars on some piece of gear when they don't. People can buy whatever they want and do whatever they want with it, but if the goal of learning about this equipment is to actually take pictures rather than own the gear as an exercise in and of itself then we should help each other towards that end.


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## Aussie shooter (May 11, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If the subject is not moving, dual OIS & IBIS of (tested & verified) 6.5 stops can and will stop motion to look just like a tripod for all "reasonable intents and purposes". That reduces shake by a factor of 90 to 1! My EM1mk2 with 12-100 f4 and 300mm f4 pro lenses do exactly that. I also have a tripod, and use it when I do panoramas to get perfect repeatable position registration between pictures. But I also can take the same panoramas handheld with 6.5 stop dual IS and they still are as sharp and stitch together fine. If you have never seen real (tested & verified) 6.5 stop dual IS then you should. And a few makers have even gone beyond that now.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the R6, R5 & R5s IBIS with optical IS at the same time. It's harder to stabilize a FF sensor than a MFT sensor due to the increased mass, but if they can get it above 6 stops (verified) then it'll be spectacular.
> 
> My only comment about IS claims, is that they have to be tested & verified to be believed. I have seen some makers exaggerate them or say "up to" so many stops. If it's not verified, including on the particular lens you use, then "buyer beware".


When you are talking 6 stops of IBIS it means going from 1/64sec to 1 sec. Not from 1sec to 64sec. 6 stops ain't 6stops. So for landscapes it really does not come close to a tripod.


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## jedy (May 11, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> *The wish list*
> -Unlimited video recording
> -XLR module
> -False Color
> ...


That’s a laughable wish list and not even remotely realistic. Canon are not going to put cine video features into their lower tier FF stills camera. If Canon were to offer full HDMI recording output, those features could be gained by the addition of an Atomos monitor/recorder. That seems the much more realistic scenario. What with the competition at this price level, I’d bet Canon won’t restrict the HDMI output like they did with the 6D, compared to the 5DIII that allowed clean HDMI recording output to an external recorder.


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## KrisK (May 11, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No I didn't, what I said was if you feel you can't get by with a 20mp camera and believe you need a 34mp camera because *"[When I get] back to computer I find that what looked good in viewfinder had too much sky or foreground etc"* then it probably isn't the mp at fault here. I then went on to say of course there are many 'legitimate' reasons to crop and further it is all subjective so there is no standard of legitimacy, people can do whatever they want!
> 
> But I believe we owe more than that to our fellow forum dwellers, I believe we can all benefit from our combined knowledge and I'd rather say something unpopular that makes a difference than nod approvingly whilst telling somebody they need to spend x thousand dollars on some piece of gear when they don't. People can buy whatever they want and do whatever they want with it, but if the goal of learning about this equipment is to actually take pictures rather than own the gear as an exercise in and of itself then we should help each other towards that end.



Maybe a dumb question, but do any cameras allow you to optionally mask the EVF frame with a small black or greyed-out margin of crop? Basically put a 5% or 10% border around the edges that would let you compose the image on its own when in the field, but give you a small amount of flexibility for things like horizon correction, or whatever. (The camera would record all the data.)

Even better if it would somehow tag this 'soft' border so you could see your original composition in DPP, with maybe a greyed-out garbage area that you could restore if needed.


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## usern4cr (May 11, 2020)

SteveC said:


> If I can't take 30 second milky way pictures from the camera while it's tumbling and bouncing down a rocky slope, then the IS is just inadequate.


Ha! 
I guess they'll have to up their IS to a couple thousand stops for that!


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## usern4cr (May 11, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> When you are talking 6 stops of IBIS it means going from 1/64sec to 1 sec. Not from 1sec to 64sec. 6 stops ain't 6stops. So for landscapes it really does not come close to a tripod.


... And that's why I mentioned "*reasonable intents and purposes"* in my post. I assume most people would know that handheld image shake reduction means to reduce the image shake while you're holding the camera in hand for a *reasonable* photo. Is it reasonable for 1/64 second to become 1 second? - yes! Is it reasonable for 1 second to become 64 seconds? - no! Would any landscape photographer try to handhold every photo for 64 seconds?! Do I really have to say that? Geez!

I do landscapes as my main thing. I have a tripod and use it when I have to, but if I can walk & hike around without it and take beautiful landscape pictures with 6+ stops of dual IS then it's a beautiful thing! And no, I don't try to hand hold anything for 64 seconds - I take a tripod if I want to do that. Are you really telling everyone that the only way to take every landscape picture is to take a 64 second exposure?


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## mpmark (May 11, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> I hope this camera will replace my GH5 it has so much potential...yet so many features could be crippled behind those great numbers. I only care about the video features so from my viewpoint:
> 
> *The good (so far)*
> -Dual Card Slots
> ...



Honestly, you don't want a stills camera, you want a video recorder. I am getting more and more puzzled if anyone today still shoots stills. If you really love video so much why not buy a proper video camera? It looks like with the new R5 hype mainly trying to grab the video crowd, not really releasing any stills capabilities I should really be leaving canon and go to any company that still makes a proper stills camera, if there are any left? I shoot zero video yet I feel I'm only ever hearing more and more about "video specs" I honestly could care less! What do I need to do to find a stills camera, do any still exist?


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## Aregal (May 11, 2020)

navastronia said:


> How do you know?


I have a feeling they may be right to save my disappointment but the marketing language during the C300iii and R5 announcement last month kept alluding to filmmakers being able to use entire EOS range (R5 to C700FF GS) as an ecosystem for film making. This may extend the range to the R6, expanding the use of EOS cameras for filmmakers.


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## usern4cr (May 11, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Honestly, you don't want a stills camera, you want a video recorder. I am getting more and more puzzled if anyone today still shoots stills. If you really love video so much why not buy a proper video camera? It looks like with the new R5 hype mainly trying to grab the video crowd, not really releasing any stills capabilities I should really be leaving canon and go to any company that still makes a proper stills camera, if there are any left? I shoot zero video yet I feel I'm only ever hearing more and more about "video specs" I honestly could care less! What do I need to do to find a stills camera, do any still exist?


I'm also mainly a stills photographer. Don't worry about the video hype. Just enjoy the camera bodies that come out for the stills features you use. 20MP in the R6 will take beautiful stills with the stunning Canon lenses. 45MP in the R5 will be even better. If they do come out with a R5s with even more MP within a year then that would be even better if the wait is acceptable. 

I want a FF system with fully articulating screen, so that rules out Sony and Nikon. I'm not fond of Panasonic's DFD focusing/limited affordable native lenses/large size. That leaves Canon for me. But you may be different. If so, check out all the others, including Fuji's smaller & larger sensor systems. Maybe you'd find something more to your liking.


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## Joules (May 11, 2020)

mpmark said:


> It looks like with the new R5 hype mainly trying to grab the video crowd, not really releasing any stills capabilities I should really be leaving canon and go to any company that still makes a proper stills camera


What stills feature could they possibly add to the R5? Honest question, to me it looks like the most competent general purpose stills camera by a long shot. Or did you miss that it has:

Up to 20 FPS 45 MP stills with full eye AF for humans AND Animals such as Birds, combined lens and body image stabilization and dual card slots? On top of improved ergonomics over the R and a flip screen. What's missing for you?


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## jedy (May 11, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Honestly, you don't want a stills camera, you want a video recorder. I am getting more and more puzzled if anyone today still shoots stills. If you really love video so much why not buy a proper video camera? It looks like with the new R5 hype mainly trying to grab the video crowd, not really releasing any stills capabilities I should really be leaving canon and go to any company that still makes a proper stills camera, if there are any left? I shoot zero video yet I feel I'm only ever hearing more and more about "video specs" I honestly could care less! What do I need to do to find a stills camera, do any still exist?


It would seem people want professional cine quality and features but only want to pay $2000, all wrapped up in an unrealistically small stills camera. I guess there’s always the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera if video really is a priority.


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## mpmark (May 11, 2020)

Joules said:


> What stills feature could they possibly add to the R5? Honest question, to me it looks like the most competent general purpose stills camera by a long shot. Or did you miss that it has:
> 
> Up to 20 FPS 45 MP stills with full eye AF for humans AND Animals such as Birds, combined lens and body image stabilization and dual card slots? On top of improved ergonomics over the R and a flip screen. What's missing for you?



What did I miss? the lack of stills specs released. Firstly, we dont know the MP count, although due to "video specs" we can assume 39-45, but we dont know. Secondly, whats the cameras dynamic range? how well is its ISO performance? Whats its bit depth? Delay of startup from standby? Will the IS run continuously no matter what on your lens like it does on the EOS R. Whats the delay between shutter and photo snap? These are questions I'd care to know.


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## mpmark (May 11, 2020)

jedy said:


> It would seem people want professional cine quality and features but only want to pay $2000, all wrapped up in an unrealistically small stills camera. I guess there’s always the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera if video really is a priority.



Yes agreed, I honestly feel like no one shoots stills anymore? why are the stills cameras all of a sudden video cameras that happen to shoot stills. Honestly if i really cared for video so much I would buy a proper video camera. Look at all the eos r video reviews on YT most are video reviewers.


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## usern4cr (May 11, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Yes agreed, I honestly feel like no one shoots stills anymore? why are the stills cameras all of a sudden video cameras that happen to shoot stills. Honestly if i really cared for video so much I would buy a proper video camera. Look at all the eos r video reviews on YT most are video reviewers.


It's not that there aren't stills people still out there - they're still there. It's just that once you've developed all the technology to create a stunning stills camera, with the ability to take a boatload of stills per second (eg. 12 fps mechanical / 20 fps electronic) for a longer and longer time, then you're approaching the rates of video by itself. Now with just a little more effort & programming you can take video of high quality and double (or more) the number of people buying your camera bodies & lenses.

Now marketing departments can say that if you use vertical marketing by cost, and segment by stills or video, you can get extra income. That makes sense. But sometimes there's not enough demand to justify segmenting by stills or video, while it still makes sense to use vertical marketing by cost. That looks like the state that Canon is in now.

So again, just decide how much of a great camera body you can afford, and take your stills, ignore the video, and be glad you can still buy such a great camera & lenses at as low of a price as possible due to the remaining stills & video people left to buy them.


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## londonxt (May 11, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> It's a bit annoying, each time you want to connect to a camera via Wi-Fi, to turn it on, switch a phone to its network and start an app.
> 
> I suppose Bluetooth offers a permanent connection between the camera and a phone/computer.



Bluetooth also uses a lot less power than wifi, something vital with mirrorless cameras! I just wish useful remote control apps would make use of it instead of wifi.


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## privatebydesign (May 11, 2020)

KrisK said:


> Maybe a dumb question, but do any cameras allow you to optionally mask the EVF frame with a small black or greyed-out margin of crop? Basically put a 5% or 10% border around the edges that would let you compose the image on its own when in the field, but give you a small amount of flexibility for things like horizon correction, or whatever. (The camera would record all the data.)
> 
> Even better if it would somehow tag this 'soft' border so you could see your original composition in DPP, with maybe a greyed-out garbage area that you could restore if needed.


My 1 series allows me to select from several aspect ratios, including 1:1 which they curiously call 6:6, I use it for one customers social media images, in Live View it gives dark bars at the crop point and when you import the files into Lightroom or DPP it shows just the crop. However the full file is there just select the crop tool and you can see the full sensor capture. Very handy tool for deliberate aspect ratio pre-visualization.


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## Sporgon (May 11, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> My 1 series allows me to select from several aspect ratios, including 1:1 which they curiously call 6:6, I use it for one customers social media images, in Live View it gives dark bars at the crop point and when you import the files into Lightroom or DPP it shows just the crop. However the full file is there just select the crop tool and you can see the full sensor capture. Very handy tool for deliberate aspect ratio pre-visualization.


5DS does this too. I’d assumed that Canon had added the feature as the very large output size allowed such cropping and still have a large output size ! But this can’t be the case if it’s in the 20 mp 1Dx because as we all know now, you can’t crop a 20 mp sensor without seriously compromising quality !  
<sarcasm>
(You know why it’s 6:6 Private !)


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## SteveC (May 11, 2020)

mpmark said:


> What did I miss? the lack of stills specs released. Firstly, we dont know the MP count, although due to "video specs" we can assume 39-45, but we dont know. Secondly, whats the cameras dynamic range? how well is its ISO performance? Whats its bit depth? Delay of startup from standby? Will the IS run continuously no matter what on your lens like it does on the EOS R. Whats the delay between shutter and photo snap? These are questions I'd care to know.



Geez, here we go again.

The video specs were released, because it was a video-oriented event. Those people could care less about stills capability, so Canon didn't address that then.

You'll see the stills specs soon enough.

That day can't come soon enough, IMHO because it will shut up all the ignorant people saying it's a video-oriented camera.

Though it won't shut up the people who whine about having to pay for video features they don't use, not realizing that the SAME tech is making possible the awesome stills capabilities.


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## Joules (May 11, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Secondly, whats the cameras dynamic range? how well is its ISO performance? Whats its bit depth? Delay of startup from standby? Will the IS run continuously no matter what on your lens like it does on the EOS R. Whats the delay between shutter and photo snap? These are questions I'd care to know.


Please point out the instance where Canon released such detailed info as delay figures or dynamic range before release of a camera. Come to think of it, please point out where they gave those figures after the release.

You don't get this stuff until you have people testing out the camera. Complaining about not knowing such minute details ahead of release is nothing I can understand. Especially since there is no reason to believe you'll be disappointed on any of these aspects unless you have unrealistic expectations.

Can we have the DR and IBIS trolls back please? At least they had a point.


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## Trey T (May 11, 2020)

rumor has it, from an unknown source, that the R6 looks like the R


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## Skyscraperfan (May 11, 2020)

It actually annoys me very much, if cameras get video focussed to a point where it compromises stills quality. For example if full rows of pixels are skipped and will be interpolated in the image just to reserve pixels for autofocus. That introduces banding for example that only goes away with the help of the firmware. 

It seems video was the main reason for manufacturers to switch from DSLRs to mirrorless cameras. Of course there are occasions when I appreciate the option to take a video, but than that video blocks my camera. I can't take a photo at the same time unless I do a 4K or 8K frame grab. 

The Olympics (if they ever happen again) are a good example. If you take a video of a 100 metre sprint, you loose te chance to take photos of the sprint. So I really can't use the video option very often anyway unless I carry two cameras with me.


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## Baron_Karza (May 11, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> It actually annoys me very much, if cameras get video focussed to a point where it compromises stills quality. For example if full rows of pixels are skipped and will be interpolated in the image just to reserve pixels for autofocus. That introduces banding for example that only goes away with the help of the firmware.
> 
> It seems video was the main reason for manufacturers to switch from DSLRs to mirrorless cameras. Of course there are occasions when I appreciate the option to take a video, but than that video blocks my camera. I can't take a photo at the same time unless I do a 4K or 8K frame grab.
> 
> The Olympics (if they ever happen again) are a good example. If you take a video of a 100 metre sprint, you loose te chance to take photos of the sprint. So I really can't use the video option very often anyway unless I carry two cameras with me.


buy 2


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## Joules (May 11, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> It actually annoys me very much, if cameras get video focussed to a point where it compromises stills quality. For example if full rows of pixels are skipped and will be interpolated in the image just to reserve pixels for autofocus. That introduces banding for example that only goes away with the help of the firmware.


Seriously, where are these "BUT MUH STILLS!11!!" folks coming from suddenly?

DPAF means EVERY pixel on a Canon sensor can perform AF tasks. There's no such thing as pixels reserved for AF that need to be interpolated later.

And please. What is this compromise you people think of, that makes stills capabilities suffer when video is advanced in a mirrorless body.

Can we get a faceplam emoji?


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## Joules (May 11, 2020)

Trey T said:


> rumor has it, from an unknown source, that the R6 looks like the R


We know that the R6 will look very different from the R5. Your rumor from unknown source seems false. See:

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r6-ibis-in-action-request/?no_cache=1


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## usern4cr (May 11, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> It actually annoys me very much, if cameras get video focussed to a point where it compromises stills quality. For example if full rows of pixels are skipped and will be interpolated in the image just to reserve pixels for autofocus. That introduces banding for example that only goes away with the help of the firmware.
> 
> It seems video was the main reason for manufacturers to switch from DSLRs to mirrorless cameras. Of course there are occasions when I appreciate the option to take a video, but than that video blocks my camera. I can't take a photo at the same time unless I do a 4K or 8K frame grab.
> 
> The Olympics (if they ever happen again) are a good example. If you take a video of a 100 metre sprint, you loose te chance to take photos of the sprint. So I really can't use the video option very often anyway unless I carry two cameras with me.


You think video causes full rows of pixels to be skipped just for AF pixels?
You think video was the main reason manufacturers switched from DSLR to mirrorless?
You think you should be able to record video and then simultaneously take a non-frame grab unrelated photo at the same time on the same camera?

Oh, man, where do these things come from?


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## Trey T (May 11, 2020)

Joules said:


> We know that the R6 will look very different from the R5. Your rumor from unknown source seems false. See:
> 
> https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r6-ibis-in-action-request/?no_cache=1


R5>R>RP

It better look like R5 than RP. 

Hey, it's my rumor!! Lol ... an "unknown source" is like me tell you something and you dont care.... lol


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## bbasiaga (May 11, 2020)

Mixed media is just a fact of life now. Just since we got married 20 years ago, for example, it went from 'can you beleive they can afford a videographer for their wedding?" to 'so many people are having a videographer maybe I should get one" to "you're choosing THAT videographer? oh...not as good as ours...: This is based on actual conversations we've overhead with varous sets of friends getting married in the intervening years. 

Heck, even just a few years ago FB was actual typed posts. Now its 80% images, 15% video and 5% words. Youtube. IG VIDEO, live streaming, twitch,....

You can look back and see how image sensors and processors limited the first digital cameras. They couldn't do video, because they couldn't process it or store it. Resolution wars started and to get the megapixel crown the manufacturers had to push technology on support hardware to be able to deal with it. Then, it broke through to the point where video and stills were possible in one body. And beyond possible, but so aligned in hardware needs that it would be apply the famous cripple hammer to not enable both. 

The same happened to mobile phones. Very few people lament they day they could still find true innovation in "calling only" cellular devices. (At least until they have kids that they want to isolate from the horrors of social media and texting  ). 

Just gotta roll with it. Video and stills are forever intertwined. And they will be in whatever comes after ILC cameras too. Harry Potter moving 3D photos are nearly here!

Brian


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## Xavitxaung (May 11, 2020)

If it would be possible, I would prefer an evolution of the Canon EOS 1Ds Mark II or Mark III sensor inside the R6, I am still in love of what produces my EOS 1Ds Mk II...


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## Stig Nygaard (May 11, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> It actually annoys me very much, if cameras get video focussed to a point where it compromises stills quality. For example if full rows of pixels are skipped and will be interpolated in the image just to reserve pixels for autofocus. That introduces banding for example that only goes away with the help of the firmware.



1) Why is that especially related to video? Autofocus matters just as much for photography as for video. If not more for photography (Prof video is often done with manual focusing because you either want focus fixed, or want very smooth controlled focus changes).
2) There's no banding with Canon's Dualpixel AF that needs to be repaired by firmware. Every pixel has two "sub-pixels" and can can thus be used for focusing. That's one of the smart things about Canon's Dualpixel AF technology.


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## herein2020 (May 11, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Honestly, you don't want a stills camera, you want a video recorder. I am getting more and more puzzled if anyone today still shoots stills. If you really love video so much why not buy a proper video camera? It looks like with the new R5 hype mainly trying to grab the video crowd, not really releasing any stills capabilities I should really be leaving canon and go to any company that still makes a proper stills camera, if there are any left? I shoot zero video yet I feel I'm only ever hearing more and more about "video specs" I honestly could care less! What do I need to do to find a stills camera, do any still exist?



I actually am buying a proper video camera; either a C200 or a C300 mark II. All I need the R6 for is gimbal work, and b-roll. The R5 and R6 are still far from true video cameras, even if they implement everything on my wishlist which by the way the S1H and the GH5 and the GH5S already has all of this and the S1 is not far behind, but even if they implement all of it; it still will not have:

Integrated XLR inputs
Integrated ND filters
Proper Cinema Body (Easier to rig up with accessories)
Longer battery life
Better Cooling
etc. etc.

It would literally cost more to get a C300 or C200 on a proper gimbal than the $2499 for the R6. Also, you need a crew when you start putting cinema cameras on a gimbal. I can run and gun solo by locking down the Cinema camera on a tripod or handheld, gimbal the R6, or handhold the R6 for B-roll, b-cam etc. I would also use the R6 for weddings, smaller events, etc and use the C series for corporate work, commercial work, larger events like presentations / speakers, etc where it needs to roll for hours without changing batteries.

Your R5 not releasing any stills capabilities is a topic that has been beaten to death. The R5 and R6 are both going to be great hybrid cameras that will take awesome stills and have class leading video specs at the same time. Video is the future and the future is now, stills only shooters just need to get used to it. Also if you are a typical stills only pro shooter you are leaving a lot of money on the table by not shooting video.


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## slclick (May 12, 2020)

I'm a stills only shooter but I am now in the camp (possibly a very small campground with only space for a tiny bikepacking tent) of not debating the video thing. Whatever. I just want to see final specs on various new bodies. You know, the R5 and all the other perceived R# unicorns coming in the next couple years. Line them up, let me pick which one suits my styles. 

I'll go into the menu system and setup 'My Menu' with no video and skip all other BS and see what I want to see. It's pretty easy. I've been doing it that way for 8 years on my 5D3.

What I don't like is all the video centric arguments which has folks telling us we have to start accepting it because soon we won't be shooting stills and will be choosing frame grabs instead. Rubbish..

But wow, I am amazed at all the soothsayers who can disagree endlessly over vaporware and unreleased models. Rumor chit chat is one thing, vitriol and soapbox posturing is another. None of us knows sh*t about the R6 yet. Canon has done what exactly? Bluetoooth certification? Nothing to work with.


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## joestopper (May 12, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> If you are taking landscapes and are then relying on 60% more pixels to allow for cropping you are not doing your equipment justice and you are not seeing the shot in front of you. Sure there are always isolated instances where a preconceived image framing or aspect ratio doesn't fit with the format ratio you happen to have, but even so there are few instances where stitching can't work in landscapes to mitigate that kind of thing.
> 
> As for post processing, that has got nothing to do with it, digital capture, like negatives, requires processing, just take a look at any of your RAW files with dcraw to confirm that! Our eyes see things in a completely different way to the way digital sensors record scenes and people have always made adjustments to the way the chemistry or electronics record the scene to better present the photographers vision. Would I show you an unprocessed canister of film and ask for your opinion of my images?
> 
> ...



I agree. A photographer who is regularly cropping 40% is doing something wrong..All those pixels thrown away could have been used for better IQ. Having said that, cropping can certainly be typical for some (BIF etc).


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (May 12, 2020)

joestopper said:


> I agree. A photographer who is regularly cropping 40% is doing something wrong..All those pixels thrown away could have been used for better IQ. Having said that, cropping can certainly be typical for some (BIF etc).



As a user of the 5DS and EOS R, I would put a question mark by your reply. 

I know I could use a 135mm to fill a frame more than using a 50mm and cropping, but with variations in depth of field between certain lenses, some photographers may have something up their sleeve that works for their needs. Hard to say for sure .. I don't have the answer for that.


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## AEWest (May 12, 2020)

joestopper said:


> I agree. A photographer who is regularly cropping 40% is doing something wrong..All those pixels thrown away could have been used for better IQ. Having said that, cropping can certainly be typical for some (BIF etc).


I'm not sure which photographer is regularly cropping 40% of their images. A figment of someone's imagination.


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## slclick (May 12, 2020)

When you sink your teeth into a meaty subject like a 40% crop, it's understandable how hard it is to let go. 




Seriouisly, the directions threads go when thet's nothing to discuss. I'd much rather have crickets than blather.


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## herein2020 (May 12, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> Mixed media is just a fact of life now. Just since we got married 20 years ago, for example, it went from 'can you beleive they can afford a videographer for their wedding?" to 'so many people are having a videographer maybe I should get one" to "you're choosing THAT videographer? oh...not as good as ours...: This is based on actual conversations we've overhead with varous sets of friends getting married in the intervening years.
> 
> Heck, even just a few years ago FB was actual typed posts. Now its 80% images, 15% video and 5% words. Youtube. IG VIDEO, live streaming, twitch,....
> 
> ...



You want to know what the most popular photographer is at the events I have been shooting lately? The photo booth with the green screen and the Canon Rebel on a tripod that instantly txts the pictures to everyone's cell phones so that they can post it to their Facebook before they walk away. And I'm not just talking birthday parties, and promotion ceremonies, I'm talking big budget corporate events. 

The big thing now is customers want to livestream their events, weddings, birthday parties, etc. I can see this getting even more popular after the pandemic because fewer people will be willing to fly or congregate so they will want their loved ones to watch the event live from anywhere in the world and they will want to record their speeches and the activities for everyone to watch later.

Even with the pandemic I am still booked through November and that's mainly thanks to video. Want to record a corporate message for your employees? No problem, while I'm there could I take a professional corporate headshot for their website? No problem...guess who they will remember (and hire) the next time the need video and photography for their next conference? 

Video is here to stay...I still love photography and wish it wasn't fading as fast as it is, but from a business perspective if I don't offer these services someone else will. Absolutely nothing wrong with being a stills only shooter, I would love to stick to stills, but that's just not the future.


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## AJ (May 12, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I'm not sure which photographer is regularly cropping 40% of their images. A figment of someone's imagination.


It's common in stock photography. The photographer frames it one way, and the graphic designer wants it differently.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (May 12, 2020)

AJ said:


> It's common in stock photography. The photographer frames it one way, and the graphic designer wants it differently.



You reminded me why I crop often after photographing with the 5DS .. surprised it escaped my memory, replying to someone else above.

Sometimes I want a landscape oriented print of a redwood grove. But at times, I may want a vertical oriented 20 x 30 of mostly one massive redwood tree from the center. One shot with the 5DS accomplishes both, cropping and not cropping.

It's something I do often. The attached is the reverse. A tall photo where I cropped the other way and didn't want to show the other trees or upper trunk as much as the woman and closer detail of the lower trunk bark and burls.


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## derpderp (May 12, 2020)

overniven said:


> Id love an R5, but I’m certain my wallet says R6.



I'd love an R5, my wallet says R6, but I'm still gonna buy the R5


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## Pape (May 12, 2020)

Urgh i was thinking buy 90d today but this darn R6 bugs me ,i guess i need wait and see what it will be 
Eveyone knows iso perfomance cant be improved ,and still they talk about low light beast.
What if it means it can just focus on dimmer than any ILC becore like f 19.
Could be focusing faster with 100-500mm x2 than 7d2 with 100-400.
So no more 7d never.


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## Canon-Chas (May 12, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Doesn’t cut it for whom exactly? Professionals providing tens of thousands of images daily using 1 series cameras seem to manage with 20 mp even on the newest iteration.


No good for me, wildlife togs need more megapixels


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## herein2020 (May 12, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> You reminded me why I crop often after photographing with the 5DS .. surprised it escaped my memory, replying to someone else above.



I crop all of my footage now except real estate footage because my camera shoots in a 3:2 aspect ratio and Instagram is optimized for a 4:5 ratio and in my services contracts that I submit to my customers part of all of my packages (except real estate) is that I will provide a social media version of the images. That's why I'm hoping the R5 and R6 will provide some kind of in display gridlines for non sensor native resolutions so that I can frame the composition properly in camera.


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## Sporgon (May 12, 2020)

Canon-Chas said:


> No good for me, wildlife togs need more megapixels


Have you ever looked at the equipment used by many of the finalists over the years in the Wildlife Photographer of the Year competitions ?


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## Del Paso (May 12, 2020)

EVF with lower resolution than the R 5.
Could mean: - like the RP, very bad choice.
- like the R, so the R 5 would get a higher resolution than the R. Great news for the R 5 !
Still hoping for an EVF as good as Panasonic or Leica SL 2, and wondering why so few posts seem to care about viewfinder definition...vital for me.
The R's major drawback (for me !) is its poor EVF's definition. If you don't believe me, compare the Pana SR1 and the R.


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## Pape (May 12, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> EVF with lower resolution than the R 5.
> Could mean: - like the RP, very bad choice.
> - like the R, so the R 5 would get a higher resolution than the R. Great news for the R 5 !
> Still hoping for an EVF as good as Panasonic or Leica SL 2, and wondering why so few post seem to care about viewfinder definition...vital for me.
> The R's major drawback (for me !) is its poor EVF's definition. If you don't believe me, compare the Pana SR1 and the R.


Lower resolution EVF is better if it means less lag and blackout. Let autofocus do focusing


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## slclick (May 12, 2020)

Hey, who has experience with the M5, R and RP to share some light on EVF differences, (not specs and what you read) Real Life.

thanks!


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## koenkooi (May 12, 2020)

slclick said:


> Hey, who has experience with the M5, R and RP to share some light on EVF differences, (not specs and what you read) Real Life.



I used the M50 (not M5), R and RP. The M50 and RP have the same EVF screen, but different optics in front of it. I hated the M50's optics so much I went for an M6II to get rid of that useless, infuriating lump. It's dark, tiny and viewing it off-axis distorts it like crazy.
The RPs EVF however is a joy to use, it's projected much bigger and flatter. I didn't notice much difference between the R and RP EVFs. But my usage for the week that I rented the R was limited to macro and taking pictures of my family.

With all of them I had the impression that the sensor was holding back the EVF, not the other way around. The external EVF on my M6II seems to behave better with fast movements than the R/RP, but I have had it only since last month, so not much real world usage yet.

I would like the latency to go down *a lot*. Before having a camera with an EVF I was using a 7D1, which has a pretty low shutter lag. The EVF latency compared with the worse shutter lag makes it hard to time the shots. The M6II can get around that with its 14fps or 30fps modes, but that's not a real solution. 

And not really the fault of the EVF, but the blackout and slideshow during burst needs to get fixed as well. The online reviews of the 1dx3 show that seems to be fixed with that camera, hopefully *all* new Canon cameras will get those improvements.


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## Canon-Chas (May 13, 2020)

Sporgon said:


> Have you ever looked at the equipment used by many of the finalists over the years in the Wildlife Photographer of the Year competitions ?


Go ahead and buy an R6 then


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## Joules (May 13, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> . The external EVF on my M6II seems to behave better with fast movements than the R/RP, but I have had it only since last month, so not much real world usage yet.


Did you use RF lenses with the R cameras, or EF?

From my experience in a store, the RP viewfinder is very much inferior to the one in the R, especially in terms of resolution and maybe refresh rate. The perceived motion blur seemed less aggressive on the R. But maybe that was a difference in settings, as far as I know you have to turn on the smooth viewfinder mode, right?


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## koenkooi (May 13, 2020)

Joules said:


> Did you use RF lenses with the R cameras, or EF?
> 
> From my experience in a store, the RP viewfinder is very much inferior to the one in the R, especially in terms of resolution and maybe refresh rate. The perceived motion blur seemed less aggressive on the R. But maybe that was a difference in settings, as far as I know you have to turn on the smooth viewfinder mode, right?



Only EF lenses most of the time, I have to rent the RF lenses. I haven't compared "High speed display" against the regular mode when I had the chance. Since it also disables anti-flicker :/


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## privatebydesign (May 13, 2020)

Canon-Chas said:


> No good for me, wildlife togs need more megapixels


Unlikely, more likely is you need longer lenses or a crop camera. There are a bazillion wildlife photographers out there that have shot very capably with 20mp ff cameras and 20mp crop cameras for years.


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## sryan (May 13, 2020)

I just really want to see images of this camera like they did with the R5. I need the visual to go with the specs and then I can continue my dreaming until these cameras are released.


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## ashmadux (May 13, 2020)

*20mp....WTF* ?????

How much will this cost?


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## Otara (May 14, 2020)

Sporgon said:


> Have you ever looked at the equipment used by many of the finalists over the years in the Wildlife Photographer of the Year competitions ?



Nothing beats being closer and spending a lot of time in the field, which wildlife finalists are willing to do, both from a skills developed and time spent perspective. The golden eagle shot in 2019 was 3 years of familiarisation and a camera trap. THREE YEARS. There was more than a smattering of rather expensive gear as well. A 5D2 is a fairly old camera, but once its in a seacam underwater housing, we're in very different territory

Most of us are mere mortals who simply want to get as good a picture as possible within our personal circumstances. Whether its better AF, more FPS, more MP, more reach, they hold their attractions. And if we're honest shiny toys might be a part of it too.


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## Sporgon (May 14, 2020)

Otara said:


> Nothing beats being closer and spending a lot of time in the field, which wildlife finalists are willing to do, both from a skills developed and time spent perspective. The golden eagle shot in 2019 was 3 years of familiarisation and a camera trap. THREE YEARS. There was more than a smattering of rather expensive gear as well. A 5D2 is a fairly old camera, but once its in a seacam underwater housing, we're in very different territory
> 
> Most of us are mere mortals who simply want to get as good a picture as possible within our personal circumstances. Whether its better AF, more FPS, more MP, more reach, they hold their attractions. And if we're honest shiny toys might be a part of it too.


My comment wasn't so much aimed at lower end equipment, but the fact that by far the most common resolution / output size used is around 20 mp !!


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## Otara (May 14, 2020)

Sporgon said:


> My comment wasn't so much aimed at lower end equipment, but the fact that by far the most common resolution / output size used is around 20 mp !!



That wasnt my major focus either - its more that 20Mp is great when you have the other aspects discussed that let you fill the frame with the scene in question, ie skill/patience, 800mm lens (!) etc to get that close. Most of us mere mortals wont be managing that, hence cropping, the desire for more Mp and the like.


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## padam (May 14, 2020)

Otara said:


> That wasnt my major focus either - its more that 20Mp is great when you have the other aspects discussed that let you fill the frame with the scene in question, ie skill/patience, 800mm lens (!) etc to get that close. Most of us mere mortals wont be managing that, hence cropping, the desire for more Mp and the like.


It is pointless to complain about it, when there are many other Canon cameras, like the 5DsR, 5D Mark IV, EOS R as well as the EOS R5 (and one more coming) that do offer that capability and the main competitors of this camera all have 24 Megapixels. Which, let's admit, is practically the same, considering it will offer advanced video capabilities, which will be taken into consideration by its potential buyers.


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## justaCanonuser (May 14, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> 20MP is the sweet spot for low light


20 MP is a sweet spot for most 35mm images shot on this planet, for most Instagrammers 2 MP would be sufficient


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## Otara (May 15, 2020)

padam said:


> It is pointless to complain about it, when there are many other Canon cameras, like the 5DsR, 5D Mark IV, EOS R as well as the EOS R5 (and one more coming) that do offer that capability and the main competitors of this camera all have 24 Megapixels. Which, let's admit, is practically the same, considering it will offer advanced video capabilities, which will be taken into consideration by its potential buyers.



We all have our goldilocks preferences vs whats actually on offer. I will hopefully be getting the R5, but not everyone will have that kind of budget.


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## padam (May 15, 2020)

Otara said:


> We all have our goldilocks preferences vs whats actually on offer. I will hopefully be getting the R5, but not everyone will have that kind of budget.


The RP and R are much cheaper and offer more megapixels, so it's not like there isn't more choices available for those who want to spend less. It is always bad practice to buy products at launch, after a year they will be considerably cheaper.
I will be looking forward to the complaints, when it turns out what the limitations of this model (I don't think it is the megapixel count, I am thinking it's still the dynamic range), since at a much cheaper price, it just won't have the bells and whistles of the R5. I wish it was 'unlimited' but it's not realistic, unless they raise the price significantly, which is probably not their intention to make better sales.


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## Michael Clark (May 15, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If the subject is not moving, dual OIS & IBIS of (tested & verified) 6.5 stops can and will stop motion to look just like a tripod for all "reasonable intents and purposes". That reduces shake by a factor of 90 to 1! My EM1mk2 with 12-100 f4 and 300mm f4 pro lenses do exactly that. I also have a tripod, and use it when I do panoramas to get perfect repeatable position registration between pictures. But I also can take the same panoramas handheld with 6.5 stop dual IS and they still are as sharp and stitch together fine. If you have never seen real (tested & verified) 6.5 stop dual IS then you should. And a few makers have even gone beyond that now.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the R6, R5 & R5s IBIS with optical IS at the same time. It's harder to stabilize a FF sensor than a MFT sensor due to the increased mass, but if they can get it above 6 stops (verified) then it'll be spectacular.
> 
> My only comment about IS claims, is that they have to be tested & verified to be believed. I have seen some makers exaggerate them or say "up to" so many stops. If it's not verified, including on the particular lens you use, then "buyer beware".



6.5 stops is a few stops. It's still no substitute when you want/need 9-10 stops or more below conventional handheld wisdom.


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## Del Paso (May 15, 2020)

Pape said:


> Lower resolution EVF is better if it means less lag and blackout. Let autofocus do focusing


Doesn't work with MF, macro or vintage lenses. Pana SR 1 or Leica SL2 have (subjectively, couldn't measure) less lag or blackout than the EOS R...
And just wait for the EOS R5 to convince you with its high-definition EVF...


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## Michael Clark (May 15, 2020)

mpmark said:


> What did I miss? the lack of stills specs released. Firstly, we dont know the MP count, although due to "video specs" we can assume 39-45, but we dont know. Secondly, whats the cameras dynamic range? how well is its ISO performance? Whats its bit depth? Delay of startup from standby? Will the IS run continuously no matter what on your lens like it does on the EOS R. Whats the delay between shutter and photo snap? These are questions I'd care to know.



Announcements so far have been made at times that were scheduled to have been made at video-centric trade shows. Photokina was scheduled for the end of May. Wait until then and see what the official introduction says about still specs.


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## Michael Clark (May 15, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Yes agreed, I honestly feel like no one shoots stills anymore? why are the stills cameras all of a sudden video cameras that happen to shoot stills. Honestly if i really cared for video so much I would buy a proper video camera. Look at all the eos r video reviews on YT most are video reviewers.



They're more concerned with video because they're posting on YouTube! Duh!

If you want to know what a stills oriented photographer thinks about a certain piece of gear, perhaps it would behove you to look for that on a stills centric platform?


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## Michael Clark (May 15, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> As a user of the 5DS and EOS R, I would put a question mark by your reply.
> 
> I know I could use a 135mm to fill a frame more than using a 50mm and cropping, but with variations in depth of field between certain lenses, some photographers may have something up their sleeve that works for their needs. Hard to say for sure .. I don't have the answer for that.



If you crop you change the enlargement ratio in exactly the same way that using a longer lens does. DoF changes either way by pretty much the same amount.


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## xseven (May 15, 2020)

So ... the price in Europe for the R5 will be 4300 Euro!!


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## SecureGSM (May 15, 2020)

xseven said:


> So ... the price in Europe for the R5 will be 4300 Euro!!


where did you get this piece of information from? is that from that Romanian website? it's all rubbish. stop panicking.


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## Michael Clark (May 16, 2020)

Canon-Chas said:


> No good for me, wildlife togs need more megapixels



Tell that to these guys


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## koketso (May 17, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> None of those are going to happen except perhaps 10-bit over HDMI. The R6 simply won’t be the video-oriented camera you hope it is.


At 20 megapixels, I believe it is.


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## Sharlin (May 17, 2020)

koketso said:


> At 20 megapixels, I believe it is.



I'll believe it when I see it. _Absolutely nothing_ about the rumors, and what we know about Canon's past strategy, points towards it being a video-centric body _except_ the resolution. Going to need a lot more evidence to make it anything more than wishful thinking.


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## Otara (May 18, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Tell that to these guys



A 600mm with a 2x is just another way of getting more MP on target.


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## Michael Clark (May 18, 2020)

Otara said:


> A 600mm with a 2x is just another way of getting more MP on target.



Not all of those are with 2X, though. All of them are 20 MP.


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## padam (May 22, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I'll believe it when I see it. _Absolutely nothing_ about the rumors, and what we know about Canon's past strategy, points towards it being a video-centric body _except_ the resolution. Going to need a lot more evidence to make it anything more than wishful thinking.


To sum it up so far:
So far all the leaks were true, so the R6 specs seem legit too, from that I see it as the jack of all trades / master of none concept of camera. (The EOS R is also a camera like that, where it has the higher build quality and good sensor at an attractive price point, but also less features on other fronts)

It offers a bit of everything like very good high ISO sensitivity, quick frame rates, dual card slots for photo, great frame rates for video, IBIS that presents advantages for both uses, all this at a decent price level.
It will be lighter than the EOS R (R5), because it will not use an all-alloy chassis (or top LCD, no word on a joystick), but not quite as light as the RP as it has the much better battery inside it.
A good vlogging/travel camera like the EOS RP, only much better featured in every way, except the megapixel count (but maybe a new AA filter will minimise the effect and the ISO should be even better, video is way better and it's not slow anymore either), of course it is also going to cost at least twice as much as the RP, but it still sets a new entry to a FF camera with dual card slots or higher-end video frame rates.

But, despite all the features, it will not necessarily excel at anything either, I would forget "more advanced" features like better dynamic range, ALL-I codecs, C-Log or better resolution for stills (or a big buffer). I just don't think it's happening, both to keep the cost down and also to keep it separated from the much more expensive models.

While the R5's job is to take back what the 5D line offered with a suddenly huge jump in specs compared to previous step, the R6 is somewhat similar at the 6D level. It will actually offer more in some aspects and it will probably lack a few things to balance it out. It could be a decently popular camera, if it remains close to that 2000$ price level.


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