# Nikon's D4 Officially Official



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 4, 2012)

```
<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/nikons-d4-outed-officially/"></g:plusone></div><div id="fb_share_1" style="float: right; margin: 0 0px 0 10px;"><a name="fb_share" type="box_count" share_url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/nikons-d4-outed-officially/" href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php">Share</a></div><div><script src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect.php/js/FB.Share" type="text/javascript"></script></div><div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 70px;"><a class="tm_button" rel="&style=normal&b=2" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/nikons-d4-outed-officially/"></a></div>
<strong>*UPDATE 2*

</strong>Planet5D has a different press release for the Nikon D4 that goes into details that aren’t covered by the press release below.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://blog.planet5d.com/2012/01/more-on-the-nikon-d4/">Read at Planet5D</a> </strong></p>
<p><strong>*UPDATE* Nikon D4 Official

</strong>When There Is No Second Chance: The New Nikon FX-Format D4 Multi-Media Digital SLR is The Definitive Unification Of Speed And Precision</p>
<p>The New 16.2 Megapixel Nikon D4 Wields a Formidable Fusion of Swift Performance, Battle-Tested Technologies and Innovative New Features to Create High Caliber Photo and HD Multimedia Content

<!--more--><strong>MELVILLE, N.Y. (Jan 5, 2012)</strong> – The new Nikon D4 digital SLR builds upon the legacy of the proven Nikon flagship D-SLRs before it, engineered to give today’s professional multimedia photographers a new apex of speed and accuracy with unparalleled image quality, low-light capability and Full HD video. The Nikon D4 hosts a multitude of advanced new features and useful functions that deliver speedy performance and amazing image quality for when missing the shot is not an option.Every aspect of the new Nikon D4 D-SLR has been designed to emphasize rapid response and seamless operation to help professional photographers consistently capture incredible content. Nikon’s proven 51-point AF System has been further enhanced for maximum speed in a variety of challenging shooting situations, even at 10 frames per second (fps). Considered the new Nikon flagship, the D4 renders supreme image quality, a feat accomplished with a new 16.2-megapixel FX-format CMOS sensor, coupled with the latest generation of Nikon’s EXPEED 3 image processing engine to help produce images and videos with stunning clarity and color. Photographers are also able to shoot in even the most challenging environments and lighting conditions with the assistance of Nikon’s new 91,000-pixel 3D color matrix meter and a broad ISO range from 100 to a staggering 204,800 for low-light capture like never before. The Nikon D4 is engineered for the modern professional and incorporates never before seen HD-SLR video features for those who also need to capture multimedia content from the field.“Speed without accuracy is irrelevant,” said Bo Kajiwara, director of marketing, Nikon Inc. “The status of a Nikon flagship camera is not given lightly; this next generation of Nikon’s most professional body exceeds the needs of a wide variety of both still and multimedia professionals that rely on Nikon to make their living. Besides overall performance and burst speed, the D4 provides Nikon’s most advanced AF system to date, as well as enhanced workflow speed to give professionals the edge in the field.”</p>
<p><strong>Velocity Meets Versatility

</strong>Speed is a necessity for today’s multimedia photographer as milliseconds matter when the action commences. Whether an assignment relies on fast processing power, burst rate, write speed, enhanced workflow or even streamlined camera controls, the D4 is the epitome of professional-caliber photographic horsepower. Ready to shoot in approximately 0.012 seconds, the new Nikon D4 can capture full resolution JPEG or RAW files at up to 10 fps with full AF / AE or up to 11 fps with AF / AE locked. Immediately before image capture, the camera interprets data from the AF sensor, including subject color as detected on the 91,000-pixel RGB sensor, to deliver consistently tack-sharp focus frame after frame. Whether a photographer is shooting a full-court fast break under gymnasium lighting or the downhill slalom in the bright sun and frigid temperatures, the D4 will instill the confidence with consistently great results.The Advanced Multi-Cam 3500 AF autofocus system is the next generation of Nikon’s proven 51-point AF system. The fully customizable system offers users the ability to capture fast moving subjects and track focus with precision or select a single AF point with pinpoint accuracy. The Nikon D4 D-SLR aligns 15 cross-type sensors in the center to detect contrast data in both vertical and horizontal planes. In addition to detecting each AF-NIKKOR lens with an aperture of f/5.6 or lower, the camera also utilizes nine cross-type sensors that are fully functional when using compatible NIKKOR lenses and TC14E or TC17E teleconverters or a single cross-type sensor when using compatible NIKKOR lenses and the TC20E teleconverter with an aperture value up to f/8, which is a great advantage to those shooting sports and wildlife. For maximum versatility in situations such as photographing nature from afar or competition from the sidelines, photographers are also able to select multiple AF modes, including normal, wide area, face tracking and subject tracking, to best suit the scene.The Nikon D4 D-SLR also employs a new 91,000-pixel RGB 3D Color Matrix metering system that meticulously analyzes each scene and recognizes factors such as color and brightness with unprecedented precision. This data is then interpreted and compared against D4’s on-board database to implement various settings, resulting in vibrant images with faithful color reproduction and balanced exposure. In addition, this new AF sensor now has the ability to detect up to 16 human faces with startling accuracy, even when shooting through the optical viewfinder, allowing for correct exposure even when the subject is backlit. Additionally, to capture every brief moment from a bouquet toss to a photo finish under nearly any condition, the 51 focus points deliver fast and accurate detection down to a -2 EV with every AF-NIKKOR lens.</p>
<p>All of this image data is funneled through a 16 bit pipeline and are written to dual card slots which have been optimized for the latest UDMA-7 Compact Flash™ cards, as well as the new XQD™ memory card. The D4 is the first professional camera to harness the capabilities of this new durable and compact format, which offers blazing fast write times and extended capacity essential for multimedia professionals shooting stills and video.</p>
<p><strong>Image Quality That Hits the Mark

</strong>The heart of the new D4 is the Nikon-developed 16.2-megapixel FX-format (36 x 23.9mm) CMOS sensor that provides amazing image quality, brilliant dynamic range and vivid colors in nearly any lighting condition. By achieving the optimal balance of resolution and sensor size, professional photographers will realize exceptionally sharp, clean and well saturated images throughout the entire ISO range.</p>
<p>Like the D3 and D3s before it, the Nikon D4 retains Nikon’s status as the sovereign of low-light capture ability, with a native ISO range from 100 to 12,800 ISO, expandable from 50 (Lo-1) to an incredible yet usable 204,800 (Hi-4). From a candlelit first dance to nocturnal wildlife, the large 7.3µ pixel size absorbs the maximum amount of light to excel in any situation. Additionally, the sensor’s construction features a gapless micro-lens structure and anti-reflective coating which further contributes to images that retain natural depth and tones with smooth color gradation. For ultimate versatility, photographers can also take advantage of the camera’s extreme high ISO ability while recording video.</p>
<p>Another factor contributing to the camera’s rapid performance and stellar image quality is Nikon’s new EXPEED 3 image processing engine that helps professionals create images with amazing resolution, color and dynamic range in both still images and video. From image processing to transfer, the new engine is capable of processing massive amounts of data, exacting optimal color, perfect tonality and minimized noise throughout the frame.</p>
<p>There are also a variety of shooting options available to help capture the highest quality images and video. In addition to standard NEF (RAW) files, the D4 is also capable of shooting smaller compressed RAW files to ease storage and speed up workflow. Users are also able to capture even more dynamic range with the in-camera High Dynamic Range (HDR) function that merges consecutive exposures. For deep contrast and further tonality, Active D-Lighting can also be activated during shooting for balanced exposures even in backlit scenes. Additionally, the camera features a dedicated button for quick access to Nikon’s Picture Controls, allowing users to quickly select one of six presets.</p>
<p><strong>Professional Multimedia Features

</strong>The Nikon D4 D-SLR is engineered with innovative new features for the multimedia professional that needs the small form factor, low-light ability and NIKKOR lens versatility that only an HD-SLR can offer. The new features add functionality for those professionals looking for the best possible experience to capture a moment in Full HD 1080p video at various frame rates, providing footage that is more than suitable for broadcast.</p>
<ul>
<li>Full HD video recording – Users have the choice of various resolutions and frame rates, including 1080p 30/24fps and 60 fps at 720p. By utilizing the B-Frame data compression method, users can record H.264 / MPEG-4 AVC format video with unmatched integrity for up to 20 minutes per clip. This format also allows for more accurate video data to be transferred requiring less memory capacity. The sensor reads image data at astoundingly fast rates, which results in less instances of rolling shutter distortion.</li>
<li>Full manual control of exposure – Shutter speed, aperture and ISO can be changed while recording to adapt to lighting and alter depth of field for professional cinematic results that help realize a creative vision.</li>
<li>Uncompressed output: simultaneous Live View – By using the camera’s HDMI port instead of the CF or XQD card, users can stream an uncompressed full HD signal directly out of the camera. This footage can be ported into an LCD display or appropriate external recording device or routed through a monitor and then to the recording device, eliminating the need for multiple connections.</li>
<li>Audio recording for professionals – The Nikon D4 features a stereo headphone jack for accurate monitoring of audio levels while recording. Output can be adjusted in up to 30 steps for precise audio adjustment. The D4 offers high-fidelity audio recording control with audio levels that can be set and monitored on the camera’s LCD screen. The microphone connected via the stereo mic jack can also be adjusted with up to 20 steps of sensitivity for accurate sound reproduction.</li>
<li>Multi-area Mode Full HD Video: FX/DX, and 2.7x crop mode at 1080p video modes – Whether shooting for depth of field in FX format mode, or looking for the extra 1.5X telephoto benefits of DX mode, the high resolution sensor of the D4 allows videographers to retain full 1080P HD resolution no matter what mode they choose. With the 2.7x crop, users can experience ultra-telephoto benefits in full HD resolution all at 16:9 aspect ratio.</li>
<li>Simultaneous live view output without display / simultaneous monitor – Shooters have the option to send the display signal directly to an attached monitor via the HDMI port. This signal can be viewed on the camera’s LCD screen and external monitor simultaneously. Additionally, the image data display can be cleared from the screen, to remove distracting data or when feeding a live signal.</li>
<li>Full-time AF – In addition to manual focus, four modes are available, including normal, wide area, face detection and subject tracking, which uses fast contrast detect AF to accurately focus while recording video and in live view.</li>
<li>New LCD screen – The large high resolution 3.2-inch LCD screen is 921K dots, and includes auto brightness adjustment. Users can also zoom in up to 46x to check critical HD focus.</li>
<li>Time lapse shooting – This new feature combines a selected frame rate and “shooting interval” in a dedicated time lapse photography menu. Playback can be achieved with a wide variety of speeds from 24x to 36,000x while producing a fully finished movie file output for faster multimedia workflows.</li>
<li>Remote shutter operation – Using dedicated Movie Custom Settings, recording can be set to be engaged by the shutter release button -users can now use a variety of remote accessories to trigger video recording.</li>
<li>NIKKOR lens compatibility – The highest caliber optics are vital to creating HD images and Nikon is the world leader in optics manufacturing with a legacy spanning more than 75 years. Nikon has a vast NIKKOR lens system, with more than 50 lenses with a variety of focal lengths and features, including VR II vibration reduction.</li>
<li>Professional Construction, Superior Operability</li>
</ul>
<p>The reputation and respect bestowed upon a Nikon D-Series flagship camera is earned from those who use it; therefore the chassis of the Nikon D4 is machined from magnesium alloy for maximum durability and reliability. The body of the camera is sealed and gasketed for resistance to dirt and moisture, as well as electromagnetic interference. Photographers are able to easily compose through the bright optical viewfinder, which offers 100% frame coverage. The shutter has been tested to withstand 400,000 cycles for maximum durability, while sensor cleaning is employed by vibrating the OLPF. The self diagnostic shutter unit also encompasses a mirror balancer to minimize the residual “bounce” to enhance AF and extend viewing time. What’s more, the viewfinder is coated with a new thermal shield finish which works to resist overheating during prolonged use, enhancing overall reliability. Users can easily compose on the camera’s wide, bright and scratch resistant 921,000-dot high resolution 3.2-inch LCD screen.</p>
<p>The overall controls and operability of the camera has also been engineered with a renewed emphasis on speed and functionality. During critical moments, users will appreciate refined button layouts with renewed ergonomics, such as a quick AF mode selector placed near the lens mount for fast access on the fly. A new joystick style sub-selector is also placed on the camera’s rear for AF point and option selection, while vertical controls have been enhanced for improved operability. Finally, to continue the D4’s moniker of the best tool for just about any condition, key control buttons on the back of the camera can all be illuminated, making the camera simple to operate in complete darkness.</p>
<p>Nikon has also made enhancements to overall workflow, adding options to streamline the process and maximize shooting time. Users are now able to automatically generate IPTC data for their images and image sets, making organizing and chronicling images easier for both the photographers and their editors. A wired Ethernet port is also utilized so that a user can shoot tethered and transfer images easily and quickly to clients. Nikon has also introduced the new WT-5A wireless file transmitter, to transmit via FTP server or computer. The device can be set to transfer either automatically or manually selected images. This device also allows for remote operation of the camera using Nikon’s Camera Control Pro 2 software. A mobile application is also in development to control the camera using this accessory, which will include the ability to trigger the shutter and record video, making this a must-have remote accessory for many professionals.</p>
<p><strong>Price and Availability

</strong>The Nikon D4 will be available in late February 2012 for the suggested retail price of $5999.95.*</p>
<p>To see the new D4 D-SLR and other new Nikon products, visit Nikon at the 2012 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) at booth # 11039 from January 10-13th, 2012 in Las Vegas, NV.</p>
<p>Read more on NikonRumors.com: <a href="http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/05/the-official-announcement-nikon-d4.aspx/#ixzz1ieTCAM7Q">http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/05/the-official-announcement-nikon-d4.aspx/#ixzz1ieTCAM7Q</a></p>
<p><strong>Nikon D4 Outed

</strong>Nikon’s D4 <a href="http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/04/nikon-d4-6000-nikkor-af-s-85mm-f1-8g-500.aspx/">has been confirmed</a>. It looks very impressive on the spec sheet. I like the idea of illuminated function buttons. Hopefully we can select the colour. :)</p>
<p> </p>
<ul>
<li>Nikon D4 will have substantially lighter body</li>
<li>Available in <strong>February</strong></li>
<li>Suggested retail price: $6,000</li>
<li>The ISO range is listed again as 100 to 102,400, expandable to 50 to 204,800.</li>
<li>91,000-pixel RGB metering sensor</li>
<li>Face detection/recognition</li>
<li>100% viewfinder coverage (obviously)</li>
<li>Illuminated function buttons</li>
<li>Dedicated video button</li>
<li>Includes H.264 B frame compression</li>
<li>Contrast detect AF in movie recording</li>
<li>Low-pass filter for video recording</li>
<li>Smooth aperture feature for video recording</li>
<li>Nikon D4 is not produced in Thailand</li>
</ul>
<p>I find it very interesting that they’re going to get it to market before Canon gets the 1D X to us.</p>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/04/nikon-d4-6000-nikkor-af-s-85mm-f1-8g-500.aspx/">NR</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


----------



## DavidRiesenberg (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

And so the battle begins.  The Olympics Royal Rumble.


----------



## KHAWACHEN (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I'm more interested in the D800 & 5D m3 but these Pro bodies definitely gets the excitement going in the Photography world.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

D4? Pthth. The 1D X has *2* more MP. It's _way_ better.   :


----------



## kennykodak (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

i bought my first camera (Canon F-1) in 1972 and my second one (Nikon F-2) in 1973. they have been going tic for tac ever since then. i'd buy this then i would have to have that. bottom line: flip a quarter, pick one and run with it. all these years, this race has been a tie with one loser-me.


----------



## traveller (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Sort of makes you wonder why Canon had to announce the 1D X so early, just to make everyone wait for 5 months to get hold of one. Of course, there's a big difference between having some D4s available in February and them being generally available at that time (not that I'm in the market for either camera). 

From what I've seen so far, I don't think that either camera will be a 'game changer' or a catalyst for many people to change systems. What happened with the 1D Mk.III generation was a kind of perfect storm of Canon getting it wrong, whilst Nikon delivered the goods.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

how many frames per second?

ps: most stuff mentioned is video related and i could not care less about video.
face detection... how fantastic... :


----------



## smirkypants (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Honestly, I'll take either. They are both better than anything any of us is using now.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*




smirkypants said:


> Honestly, I'll take either. They are both better than anything any of us is using now.



well... im sure some here would not trade their mamyia or hasselblad for it... 8)


----------



## poias (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I think 1Dx will be much better than D4. Higher resolution, better AF, and of course higher FPS -- those are exactly what we need. 

Not many people shoot at 100,000 ISO anyway and use f/8 with TC. I would rather have a stable Canon camera that delivers rather than a Nikon's haphazard reply. I am suspecting the quality of Nikons after the disasters.


----------



## Minnesota Nice (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

It wont be long until there's a 4k capable DSLR. And that ISO is nuts.


----------



## Picsfor (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

It's a close run thing.
To say the Nikon advances are about video would be to say the 1DX wasn't.

Yes, it has some lovely advances for stills photographers, but lets not forget a lot was also developed and put in for the video mob. I saw them drooling over it at the London show...

As for the ISO, bring it on big boy - i can always use and extra stop or 2 of ISO...


----------



## JR (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

The standard ISO range may suggest Nikon intends to keep the king of low light title with an extra stop compared to the 1DX. Of course this is highly speculative as we have not seen anything in terms of RAW file but it will be exciting for sure.


----------



## poias (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



JR said:


> The standard ISO range may suggest Nikon intends to keep the king of low light title with an extra stop compared to the 1DX. Of course this is highly speculative as we have not seen anything in terms of RAW file but it will be exciting for sure.



I would not go as far as calling Nikon a "king", rather obsessed with ISOs. In meaningful range, they are the same, but Canon trumps in high resolution (except the $8k D3x).


----------



## Picsfor (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Just popped over to Nikon Rumours and they have updated the ISO to show 200-12800 as native, expandable to 50 L and 204k H.

Something just doesn't add up with this camera as 'outed'.

Ethernet output, no mention of gigabit.
Next Gen CF card slot and 1 ordinary Cf slot - why? Canon were always guilty of multi card format annoyances - Nikon had it nailed with 2 CF slots...

$6000 seems a bit much for those specs listed, which in turn means Canon could easily ask for and demand $6800 for a 1DX!


----------



## niccyboy (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Nothing really that groundbreaking or game changing between the two models. I don't think any of the features of either camera will make people change brands. Except those that need the extra 1 FPS or 3 (with lock up).

Does it have Ethernet out? because is something that makes me choose the 1dx now over our current collection of d3xs for one of my projects. I'm glad the d4 didn't have it so i can finally shift ALL of our work purely to canon now.



poias said:


> I think 1Dx will be much better than D4. Higher resolution, better AF, and of course higher FPS -- those are exactly what we need.



That depends on what you are using it for. I have no need for high FPS. We don't know the AF is better as we haven't used both cameras. They are both still unreleased.



poias said:


> I am suspecting the quality of Nikons after the disasters.



The article mentioned it is not made in Thailand.


----------



## Akhiel (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

It's seems like Nikon is going to claim its position back, what it had at the time of the legendary analog Nikon F4 Body. Good to keep Canon awake !


----------



## wickidwombat (Jan 4, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I cant wait to see a detailed head to head review of the 2 new AF systems between the 2

Neither camera is really likely to cause people to jump ship with the exception of the f8 thing might cause wildlife photogs to finally snap and get themselves a D4 and 200-400 f4 and a x2 TC since nikon actually have the 200-400 not just an IOU


----------



## cpsico (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

What it doesnt say is can it do the high frame rate at 14 bit like the canons can and do. If i remember correctly the d3 and the d700 took a hit performance wise when using 14 bit files instead of 12. Looks like a great camera for sure, just not sure it would be worth jumping ship to buy. I might leap at a 4000 dollar d3s , 12 megapixals is more than enough for reception candids.


----------



## JR (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



Picsfor said:


> Just popped over to Nikon Rumours and they have updated the ISO to show 200-12800 as native, expandable to 50 L and 204k H.
> 
> Something just doesn't add up with this camera as 'outed'.
> 
> ...



I just went to the NR site and I still see the 100-102k as the standard ISO range. If I clic on the "read more" link on their site, this is the correct ISO range I think. Is it possible you clicked on the old link from his previous post where he said the range was 12800? 

I think NIkon will try to hang on the ISO battle so it would make sense they are 102k standard irregardless of the IQ - at least from a Marketing aspect...I think!?!


----------



## JR (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



pwp said:


> I'm not the only one to express surprise re the weight of the 1DX, Nikon have made a very smart move here putting the D4 on a diet.
> 
> Paul Wright



It is very interesting to see how Nikon is banking on a few specific aspect of the 1DX in their leaked spec like its weight and the AF system working at f8. This is resally a Marketing battle at this point. I am curious to know if any of this will make Canon reconsider some small aspect of the 1DX before launch (like the weight) if this is even at all possible...



wickidwombat said:


> I cant wait to see a detailed head to head review of the 2 new AF systems between the 2
> 
> Neither camera is really likely to cause people to jump ship with the exception of the f8 thing might cause wildlife photogs to finally snap and get themselves a D4 and 200-400 f4 and a x2 TC since nikon actually have the 200-400 not just an IOU



+1. I agree with you. Both Camera I am sure will be very good with minor (hoping) differences. I certainly dont plan on selling my "L" lenses so the 1DX will be the choice for me. I still color rendition of the Canon plus we have 2MP more than the D4 - lol


----------



## Picsfor (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



JR said:


> Picsfor said:
> 
> 
> > Just popped over to Nikon Rumours and they have updated the ISO to show 200-12800 as native, expandable to 50 L and 204k H.
> ...



You could well be right, it did puzzle me that they would take a hit on ISO.

TBH, i see this as a rather insignificant release compared with the 1DX which, when i had a play, really did have a few "WOW" factors. The AF, ISO and control duplication in portrait mode were very much 'i want one'...


----------



## yuuko (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



cpsico said:


> What it doesnt say is can it do the high frame rate at 14 bit like the canons can and do. If i remember correctly the d3 and the d700 took a hit performance wise when using 14 bit files instead of 12. Looks like a great camera for sure, just not sure it would be worth jumping ship to buy. I might leap at a 4000 dollar d3s , 12 megapixals is more than enough for reception candids.



I'm pretty sure the D700 and D3 didn't have any performance hit with 14-bit RAW files. It was the D300 that got hit hard with 14-bit RAW files. And if anything, I would think the difference wouldn't be the shooting speed but the time it takes to clear the buffer of the 14-bit RAW files. Correct me if I'm wrong. Exciting times in the DSLR world with the flagship cameras on the horizon.


----------



## TexPhoto (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

"Officially" means something very different today than it used to. Come to think of it so does "outed".


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

ZZZ... ??? 1Dx beats it on all spec sheet numbers bar the last native high ISO stop (how useful for the real-world is that anyway?). And where does it say that the previous Noink fanb0i rumor of "9 cross-type f/8-sensitive AF points"? Here is the actual quote from the leaked praise release:



> The unit takes the AF mode select switch from the D7000 and uses improved 51-point AF points with 9 cross-type sensor and a beefed up AF module allowing focus with an f/8 lens and faster (up from f/5.6). The AF detection range is now down to EV-2.0.



Either somebody has poor reading comprehension or the PR writer wrote that paragraph badly. But if we take the above literally, it didn't say how many AF points can AF down to f/8 or even if it is cross-type. My best guess based on previous Canon explanations about AF sensor design is it would be just in the center and it won't be cross-type. I like the 1Dx AF sensor compromise more.

The rest of the D4 specs are just catch-up specs at best, nothing groundbreaking. Ho-hum.

12-14 FPS > 10 FPS

61 pt. w/ 41 cross-type + 5 dual-cross type > 51 pt. AF w/ 9 cross-type

100,000 pixel RGB sensor > 91,000 pixel RGB sensor

18MP > 16MP


----------



## blarygake (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I'm expecting great high iso performance
Beyond that, when noise does show up I suspect it will be very film-like noise
One area where I wish Canon would improve


----------



## dr croubie (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



Canon-F1 said:


> smirkypants said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, I'll take either. They are both better than anything any of us is using now.
> ...



I'll buy you a D4 then trade you for a Mamiya and iq180 back...


Is it me, or are the two key specs of Megapixels and Frames/Second missing from that NR-page...?

(ok, so as I was typing, I noticed NR has a new post which links to here where it says 16MP at 10fps.

OK, so it's competing against the 1Dmk4 now?
Also, f/8 and ethernet is mentioned, but with no mention of how many f/8 points, and "ethernet" by definition is only 100Mbps, if it's gigabit then they should make a definite point to say 'ethernet'.


----------



## gmrza (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



niccyboy said:


> Does it have Ethernet out? because is something that makes me choose the 1dx now over our current collection of d3xs for one of my projects. I'm glad the d4 didn't have it so i can finally shift ALL of our work purely to canon now.



The article just says "ethernet", which these days I would assume is gigabit ethernet - I am sure that both Canon and Nikon will source existing Ethernet controllers from one of the bigger networking vendors.

It is looking like gigabit Ethernet is going to be a "must have" for the Olympics. - I would guess that neither Canon nor Nikon can afford to go to the Olympics with a camera without that feature.


----------



## jrista (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.

I would also expect competition on all fronts, not just the ISO front. FPS, AF capabilities and performance, etc. It seems a bit odd that Nikon would release competition to the 1DX before they even have a chance to get their hands on one and make sure their next flagship really is competition...


----------



## rol11 (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

here is article about introduction of D4 https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442381


----------



## AprilForever (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Exciting! This year sounds like it's going to be exciting!!!


----------



## dr croubie (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



jrista said:



> Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO?



There's a quote in pretty much every review on any body I read. The words are different, but the gist is the same, "just because you _can_, doesn't mean you _should_ use higher ISO". If the D300s had ISO 100k, I'm sure Canon could have made the 7D also have ISO100k if they wanted. Certainly it would have been unusable for anything but 'memories' shots, but it still would have looked good in the specs list...


----------



## wockawocka (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Both the D4 and 1Dx are cameras that over and above deliver what 98% of all photographers need.

What's exciting is that perhaps, you will never need to buy another body again other than to replace a worn out one.
Even more exciting is the prospect that with so little missing from these two cameras the only way forward is a radical change to the way light is captured. You cannot beat the laws of physics, just work with them.

BTW, High ISO is great for scenes with low contrast. If you are shooting a wedding reception with a light above the bride and groom and the rest in the dark you can't just bump the ISO to fix it as it'll serve to blow them out.


----------



## Picsfor (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



jrista said:


> Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.
> 
> I would also expect competition on all fronts, not just the ISO front. FPS, AF capabilities and performance, etc. It seems a bit odd that Nikon would release competition to the 1DX before they even have a chance to get their hands on one and make sure their next flagship really is competition...



I think you're missing the point a little with this release.

The only real complaint the Nikon lot have with their D3s is the small MP size. Most of the pros only wanted 16, 18 at a push. We have to remember, at this level we are talking about a tool for a job, not something with which to practice a hobby and enjoy creating art.

The torch was not Nikon's to gain, but Canons to try and get back. Realistically, how many people will jump ship from this to the 1DX? Not very many - it will be enough to keep the Nikon pros happy.

As for how relevant is high ISO in the real world? Whose real world are you talking about?
Yours? 
Or the press photographer who gets a grainy picture of a paramedic pumping attending Princess Diana in a poorly lit tunnel at 2 or 3 in the morning? Even as a Train Driver, high ISO was an important aspect of 'my real world'. 

These cameras are designed to 'get that pic' that pays the rent under almost any condition, and i'm fairly sure that they will both do that - just that on current specs, Canon have regained the flagship pro series mantel from Nikon.


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Some reality check I read in another forum RE: "Highest Native ISO":



> Q: So it may be that Nikon (+ Aptiva?) have actually done it again and there's a new step forward in sensor high ISO tech?
> 
> A: More likely Nikon's firmware programmers. Changing the higher H ISO's to numbered ones is purely a firmware mod, and can be done at very short notice. Most likely an earlier firmware version had 12800, then Nikon saw Canon had released at 102400 felt that their 102400 was likely to be better than Canon's so any comparison would be in their favour so changed the names from H1 and H2 to 25600 and 51200. It is just a name change, no more.





> There is certainly a new step forward in marketing claims. Don't expect the D4 ISO 102K to look like D3s 25K (except possibly in the JPEG output if the in-camera NR algorithms have been improved that much).
> 
> In the D3 line, the "H" designations are used when the analog chain is at max gain and the ADC output is numerically scaled to produce the additional boost. This may imply that the analog chain has much more gain capability in the D4, although I can't imagine that would make a significant difference in IQ at those stratospheric levels.





> An optimistic scenario would be that a pixel in D4 can contain an equivalent of 64K levels, that is it is full 16 bit. Suppose "base" ISO is 100. ISO 102K means 10 bit shift, that leaves 6 bit useful not counting noise, and maybe about 3 stops of photographically usable DR if noise is taken into account. That makes me doubt 102K ISO is in fact "native" and usable enough for something larger than 5x7 prints. I think 5600 may be closer to "native".





> Great marketing, though.
> 
> Look at how many people are excited and now expecting to have clean pictures shot in extreme low light, all cause the rumors say "native ISO 102k".




So, in short, people expecting the D4 would be "1-stop better" than the 1Dx at high ISO just because its advertised rumored native High ISO is "1-stop higher" than the earlier announced 1Dx would be in for a grainy & blotchy surprise.


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Anybody can read French? Looks like the earlier rumor was correct, D4's native maximum ISO is a mere 12800 with L: 50 & H4: 204800. And it's apparently a mere 45g lighter than the D3s.


----------



## Orion (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I think that the article is wrong. They siomply went to print before the correction came in.

btw, higher res images of ther article:

http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p6.jpg
http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p7.jpg


----------



## Cannon Man (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

The price point could give out that nikon has maby combined the d3s and D3x together as the D4 because the specs are very similar.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



> here is article about introduction of D4 https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442381



i don´t give much credit to ken rockwell.. in fact i don´t like him at all.

but someone pointed out that he wrote on his website that a D4 article that appeared on the web is fake.

i don´t know.. and i don´t really care.... just saying.


----------



## Justin (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I was excited for the lower weight, but 45g is pretty small. Really nothing anyone would notice. Maybe Canon will lower their price point further to $5999. That would be about the only thing that jumps out at me given the limited inofrmation available that the Nikon would seem to have that the Canon does not (a more attractive price).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> Here is the actual quote from the leaked praise release:
> 
> 
> 
> > The unit takes the AF mode select switch from the D7000 and uses improved 51-point AF points with 9 cross-type sensor and a beefed up AF module allowing focus with an f/8 lens and faster (up from f/5.6). The AF detection range is now down to EV-2.0.



If true, that's pretty weak. The D3 variants all had 15 f/5.6 crosses, not sure why they'd drop it to 9...


----------



## epsiloneri (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



Noink Fanb0i said:


> So, in short, people expecting the D4 would be "1-stop better" than the 1Dx at high ISO just because its advertised rumored native High ISO is "1-stop higher" than the earlier announced 1Dx would be in for a grainy & blotchy surprise.



I agree. Advertised ISO range has nothing to do with sensitivity. It's like asking how far your tele lens can shoot (something I'm asked from time to time ;D).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



epsiloneri said:


> It's like asking how far your tele lens can shoot (something I'm asked from time to time



That's easy. "To infinity...and beyond!"


----------



## jrista (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



Picsfor said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.
> ...



I'm not sure where your coming from with the whole "real-world" bit. I never mentioned real-world performance in my question. I'm fully aware of the value of high ISO...my question is, is Nikon's ISO 104k actually usable in the real world, or is it simply a marketing gimmick...simply slapping on a higher number as a pure measure of competition, without actually improving anything? From a real-world standpoint, if Nikon's ISO 104k, or even 51200, isn't really much better than its predecessors, then its a moot selling point, and Nikon would have serviced both themselves AND their customers better by waiting to release something that really brought beneficial, useful high ISO for those very real-world projects.


----------



## nightbreath (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I've used translator to grasp the meaning of the article above, here's what it gave me:



> *Sensor*: CMOS 16 MP FX format (24x36 mm)
> *Sensitivity*: 100 to 12800 ISO (ext. 50 - 204 800)
> *Autofocus*: 51 points
> *Viewfinder*: pentaprism, 100% coverage, 0.7x magnification
> ...



P.S. Few sentences were removed, because they were meaningless after translation. Also I've rephrased some of those that were left to make them easy to read. Don't blame me for my poor English


----------



## KeithR (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



> The unit will go up to 11 frames / second at full resolution, but without focusing after the first shot



This again? _Still_ no AF at high frame rates?

I wonder if the F/8 AF will make Canon have another look at the 1DX...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



KeithR said:


> > The unit will go up to 11 frames / second at full resolution, but without focusing after the first shot
> 
> 
> 
> This again? _Still_ no AF at high frame rates?



But...



> The ISO range is limited by default to ensure a relatively quick process in burst that is announced to be 10 frames / second (instead of 9 frames / second of the D3s).



I'd interpret that to mean the D4 would shoot:

10 fps with AF between frames (compared to 12 fps for the 1D X)
11 fps with mirror lockup (compared to 14 fps for the 1D X)
12 fps in DX mode with the mirror locked up (no crop mode on 1D X)


----------



## handsomerob (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



neuroanatomist said:


> I'd interpret that to mean the D4 would shoot:
> 
> 10 fps with AF between frames (compared to 12 fps for the 1D X)
> 11 fps with mirror lockup (compared to 14 fps for the 1D X)
> 12 fps in DX mode with the mirror locked up (no crop mode on 1D X)



Yeah basically.

Lets see how well the buffer will do with more frames/sec and higher pixel count (compared to the D3s). They will probably charge people $500 again for a buffer upgrade


----------



## TexPhoto (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

The "Wells Fargo Advisor" site was a Phishing scam, hosted on a site that has no connection to Wells Fargo.

The new info is coming from a French Magazine that has almost no web presence, and no information about the origin of these images. According to EXIF data, the image was last edited by a guy who calls himself Dark Wolf: http://avaxhome.ws/blogs/dark_wolf/pages/2 Clicking on Dark_Wolf's links takes you to a scam pay for clicks page.

There is little doubt there is a D4 coming, but I don't think there is any believable information here.


----------



## nazdar (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

"Contrast detect AF in movie recording"
Yesssss, ..... but how good it will be?


----------



## dr croubie (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



Noink Fanb0i said:


> Anybody can read French?





Orion said:


> http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p6.jpg
> http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p7.jpg



First page, you can get the specs from the Fiche Technique section, 16MP, 51pt AF, 100% 0.7x prism, 100-12k native, 50-200k expanded iso, XQD slot, etc.

The sentences that stick out most for me (i'm too lazy to translate the whole article):
The high-megapixel D3X is staying in the line-up, and eventually will be replaced by the D4X (well, duh).
The D4 is being made for sensitivity and speed, only 16mp is the price you pay for the high-iso/fps (well duh).
Even amateur cameras go past 20MP these days, but this camera is aimed for people who were already comfortable with 12MP, photogs and journalists.
Smaller MP means larger photosites, so you get ISO up to 200k. And it's gone up to 20fps from 9fps in the D3s. (1D mk4 competitor!)

Second Page:
It takes 11fps 'en pleine definition' (I presume that just means JPEG-only?) but with no auto-exposure or autofocus after the first shot, and takes 12fps in 8MP DX-crop (which by my calculations, 16MP/(1.5^2)=7.1MP DX-crop).
Shutter/mirror is rated at 400k (so, 11 hours of total burst then?)
They've reused the multicam3500FX autofocus from the D3, to use in groups of 11 in dynamique mode to track the subject.
Nikon have tweaked the sensitivity of the autofocus points to favour using teleconverters (take that, Canon! ?)
They've added in a new 91k-pixel rgb-metering for scene-detection and metering.
*We have tested this with good success* (ie, they've had their hands on one, they say.
They've added in things 'that videophiles want': contrast-based autofocus for video, and support fullHD .mov and H.264, frame-rate choices, with key new features: entre lignee (does this mean line-skipping or something else? my french isn't bad but my video-knowledge is almost nil), headphone jack with VU meter, hdmi output 'brute de decoffrage' (i think this means uncompressed?) for direct transmission, fade to black).
They've change the ergonomics and made it 45g lighter (how much does extra weight do you get by using an extra CF card though?), more comfortable in portrait, bigger screen.
More features, ethernet (with no mention of gigabit, if they had gigabit they'd make a point of saying it, I'm calling 100Mbps), wifi-transmitter, xqd and cf slots, blah blah.

And in the black box, 1DX specs we already know ("which on paper, looks better").


----------



## jrista (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



nightbreath said:


> I've used translator to grasp the meaning of the article above, here's what it gave me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So, if I understand your translation correctly:

Native ISO 100-12800
Extended 50 + 25600-204800?

So, a total of 5 levels of "extended" ISO levels? I guess that just confuses me even more...whats the value of four levels of extra-crappy high ISO (say, outside of police crime scene work, I guess...)? It would seem more logical to me if the camera was 100-25600, with H1 51200, H2 102k, H3 204k and the final L 50. The information about the D4 just gets more and more confusing...


----------



## coltsfreak18 (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

DPReview has just posted a couple of articles on the D4. One is an overview of all of the features. For this one, I find it interesting that the D4 can shoot at 1080p in both FX and DX (1.5x crop) mode and has clean HDMI out.
I also am somewhat surprised that it has up to H4 (204800) ISO expansion; that seems unnecessary and only in existence to compete with the 1DX for the spec sheet buyers. Yet, I doubt many purchasers of either camera buys only on spec sheets... Also, the AF system has 15 cross-type f/5.6 points and 9 f/8; yet, it still has no f/2.8 and f/4 points. I am VERY intrigued as to the compromises between speed and accuracy between the 1DX and D4, and which manufacturer's attitude towards AF prevails. Interestingly, the video only has a 24Mbps bitrate, even though it has clean HDMI out. 
For the record, the "hands-on preview" is pretty much useless and I'm disappointed to see only 1 CF slot and 1 XQD slot, which no manufacturer makes as of yet. And the pixel size is _slightly_ larger than the 1DX...7.3 micrometers to 6.94 micrometers.

Main article: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/06/NikonD4launched
Hands-on Overview: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7799914638/nikon-d4-overview/


----------



## TexPhoto (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

Well, it's real now: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/06/NikonD4launched


----------



## coltsfreak18 (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*

I stand corrected on my XQD comment. Naturally, right when I make an opinionated comment, CR announces that Sony has made some XQD cards that are significantly faster than the fastest UDMA 7 CF cards.

Interestingly, with these cards, the article claims that the D4 has a RAW buffer of about 100 frames. Has anybody confirmed what the 1DX's buffer is? IIRC, it's a bit above 100 or so, but that could be completely wrong.


----------



## Kahuna (Jan 6, 2012)

I am not worthy of owning either the 1DX or the D4 but it would seem by the specs being discussed, the 1DX represents a larger evolutionary advance than the D4 (at this point assuming IQ is a push). Looking forward to review some real life photo comparisons of the two models. Fun reading


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Jan 6, 2012)

So it's official, native ISO range is a mere 100-12800, with H1-H4 25600-204800. 1Dx beats it in **ALL** the spec numbers game, including LCD size & resolution (3:2 1.04MP 3.2" LCD vs. 921k LCD) and VF size (0.76x mag. vs. 0.70x). The only unique thing the D4 has is XQD CF card support & f/8 center pt. AF.


----------



## smirkypants (Jan 6, 2012)

The MSRP price isn't that much higher than the selling price of the 1D4 and it seems quite a bit better. I wonder if Canon will continue making the 1D4 and maybe drop the price a grand or so. I'd love to get a second 1D4 for $3500-$4000.


----------



## jrista (Jan 6, 2012)

Wow, I'm stunned! I guess I was wrong about the ISO, and there really are FOUR levels of (imo...useless) expansion ISO. Which technically means there is no native ISO improvement over the D3s...??? The AF system doesn't sound that much more impressive than what Nikon had previously, and certainly not as impressive as the Canon 1D X. Frame rate seems lacking vs. the 1D X as well.

That aside, the video features seem pretty competitive...so maybe this is Nikon's big real-world entrance into DSLR video, and is competing on a different level...i.e. not a direct competitor to the 1D X?


----------



## waving_odd (Jan 6, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLTGJuR4CQ

At 2:30, he said "4799 available on Feb 16!!!"

It's like 1.5 months ahead of the sales of 1D X...


----------



## photogaz (Jan 6, 2012)

It amazes me as no matter what industry you're in, the top end manufacturers are sitting on top of each other. It's like when Canon are having a meeting discussing what their next SLR will have, Nikon have a mole in the room and vice versa.


----------



## AprilForever (Jan 6, 2012)

I love howv they keep mentioning this camera will work at f8...

Canon, are you listening?

Can you make the 1DX work at f8? 

And, while you are at it, make my 7D work at f8?


----------



## yuuko (Jan 6, 2012)

jrista said:


> Wow, I'm stunned! I guess I was wrong about the ISO, and there really are FOUR levels of (imo...useless) expansion ISO. Which technically means there is no native ISO improvement over the D3s...???



Supposedly it's reported that the D4 is one stop better than the D3s, 6400 ISO D4 = 3200 ISO D3s. I guess what remains to be seen is an actual comparison of ISO between the two.

I'm still unsure about the new card format however, I think I'll wait for the D4s that will probably come out in two years probably equipped with dual XQD cards.  Does anybody know how Canon is going to address using XQD cards? will people have to wait another 4 years for the 1D-X mark 2 to use them?


----------



## messus (Jan 6, 2012)

First, I know many of you don't care about video features in DSLR. But face it, it is clearly here to stay. 
Please do not forget that filming with DSLR for real started with the 5D2, and a huge portion of the success
of the 5D2 is due to it's video capabilities. For me both still and video IS important, and I use my 2 x 5D2 maybe
just as much on it's video features as on it's still capabilities.

That being said, I have already pre ordered my 1DX several places to be sure I get it soon.

Resolution and speed between D4 and 1DX is not that different that it would matter for me, and probably not AF either.
BUT, assuming the D4 and 1DX performs comparable on ISO, the D4 could be a game changer in my opinion.

It could be a game changer because Nikon now has given consumers what they have begged Canon for now for years, which is UNCOMPRESSED VIDEO! Even if the 1DX offers less compressed video, it is still not uncompressed. The D4 can with this open up new creative possibilities never seen before. Even if the actual recording has to be done through an external device, the option is there, and those devices are not that expensive.

I really really hope this is something Canon is able to implement in the 1DX before releasing without major hardware modifications!
Otherwise I am tempted more than ever to switch to Nikon, sad to say, but if youre living out of photo/video, you have to have the equipment that gives you the edge on the competition.

Also the 1DX lacks the proper audio monitoring capabilites as the D4 has for movie shooters.

Now I know that Canon has officially announced the Canon Cinema DSLR 4K, which is exciting wrt resolution. But nothing mentioned yet on uncompressed/RAW video out on this camera. And even if it does get uncompressed video, it will cost me a lot to have to buy both.

Just my thoughts, we are all different, with different needs and preferences. For me it's more important to be able to do creative things to an affordable cost, or as low as possible, than to stick to a brand just for the cause of it.

Though, as many others in here, I am also a little suspicious about D4's native ISO up to "only" 12800, and then expandable up to 204.800. Especially with larger pixels than 1DX, even if just slightly. 

Either there is a huge gap in what Canons and Nikons perception of what acceptable native ISO is, 
or there really is a huge differnce between the D4 and the 1DX, time will tell.

So now we need to be able to compare RAW's from D4 and 1DX, and I think Canon now will be forced to release high ISO RAW files before the D4 hit the streets.


----------



## Woody (Jan 6, 2012)

photogaz said:


> It amazes me as no matter what industry you're in, the top end manufacturers are sitting on top of each other. It's like when Canon are having a meeting discussing what their next SLR will have, Nikon have a mole in the room and vice versa.



Think about Canon IS and Nikon VR... These two companies are so similar that I wonder if their management often discuss plans with one another.  They are probably having a good laugh at the Canon vs Nikon zealots.


----------



## Woody (Jan 6, 2012)

yuuko said:


> Supposedly it's reported that the D4 is one stop better than the D3s, 6400 ISO D4 = 3200 ISO D3s.



They may be referring to jpeg images. The official Nikon announcement states:

"Considered the new Nikon flagship, the D4 renders supreme image quality, a feat accomplished with a new 16.2-megapixel FX-format CMOS sensor, coupled with the latest generation of Nikon’s EXPEED 3 image processing engine to help produce images and videos with stunning clarity and color."

- from http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/06/NikonD4launched


----------



## Picsfor (Jan 6, 2012)

Interesting stuff, the QXD card slot will certainly be a game changer in so far as buffer goes. No need to increase buffer - just add QXD - 100 RAW files can be shot without buffer overload, so quick is the write ability of QXD (according to Sony QXD press announcement).

So, for wildlife and sports photographers, this aspect could be a game changer. I still believe the 1DX has the edge with the AF, but the video may be open to a he said/ she said spat that will never be truly resolved.

As for the ISO, Nikon indicate that the working ISO goes from 100-12800, but is expandable to work from 50-204k. 1DX has a working ISO of 100-51k, which is expandable to work from 50-204k. Am i missing a trick here - how is Nikon able to claim to win the ISO war with a working ISO 2 stops below Canon?

My final thought on the matter is this - if the D800 does come with 36mp - i suspect it will also come with a QXD slot, or maybe 2, to facilitate the speedy writing of such large file sizes. If that happens, Nikon will certainly have changed their game in how they're producing and marketing cameras, which will then lead people to ponder on Canon's response...


----------



## Eagle Eye (Jan 6, 2012)

Nikon has several months to design a camera with Canon's 1Dx specs in their hands, and they come out with less megapixels and lower fps? Nikon is trying to get these to market fast so that they can sell as money as they can to impatient people before the 1Dx comes out and takes 70% of the marketshare.


----------



## etto72 (Jan 6, 2012)

messus said:


> It could be a game changer because Nikon now has given consumers what they have begged Canon for now for years, which is UNCOMPRESSED VIDEO! Even if the 1DX offers less compressed video, it is still not uncompressed. The D4 can with this open up new creative possibilities never seen before. Even if the actual recording has to be done through an external device, the option is there, and those devices are not that expensive.
> 
> I really really hope this is something Canon is able to implement in the 1DX before releasing without major hardware modifications!



My hope is that one of the reason the 1DX was announced so early without a definitive price and the possibility to do a real preorder was to wait and what photographers and competition would react
Hopefully now Nikon gives a good reason to Canon to stop being political with their product strategy 
adding clean HD output and Continuos AF in video mode!


----------



## JR (Jan 6, 2012)

Well, at least on paper so far the 1DX seem to be the better camera:

Better af system
Better native iso (of course we need raw file to validate)
Better frame rate
A full 2MP more 

I dont know enought about video to comment but seem the D4 might have the edge here with contrast af and uncompressed video out. But from a still perspective Canon seem the winer here. For me if 1DX is able to match D4 for high iso Canon will have made a "tour de force!".

Lets see the real review now


----------



## JR (Jan 6, 2012)

etto72 said:


> messus said:
> 
> 
> > It could be a game changer because Nikon now has given consumers what they have begged Canon for now for years, which is UNCOMPRESSED VIDEO! Even if the 1DX offers less compressed video, it is still not uncompressed. The D4 can with this open up new creative possibilities never seen before. Even if the actual recording has to be done through an external device, the option is there, and those devices are not that expensive.
> ...



+1! Man I so hope you are right! That would be very nice indeed! Canon must have known the D4 would be announced soon so it was a good strategy indeed not to commit to everything on their part assuming now they actually do anything about it. Hell even if it was to delay the product by a month, they should look at it! Crossing my finger...


----------



## JR (Jan 6, 2012)

Eagle Eye said:


> Nikon has several months to design a camera with Canon's 1Dx specs in their hands, and they come out with less megapixels and lower fps? Nikon is trying to get these to market fast so that they can sell as money as they can to impatient people before the 1Dx comes out and takes 70% of the marketshare.



I would not think so. I actually think by the time the 1DX was announced it was likely too late for Nikon to change a lot. It did give them time to tweek their marketing approach for sure (focus on weight, F8 AF, etc). I actually hope now the opposite in that Canon will tweek their design. Either way they are both great camera - though I would love the video AF functionality of the D4 in the 1DX!
???


----------



## yuuko (Jan 6, 2012)

Eagle Eye said:


> Nikon has several months to design a camera with Canon's 1Dx specs in their hands, and they come out with less megapixels and lower fps? Nikon is trying to get these to market fast so that they can sell as money as they can to impatient people before the 1Dx comes out and takes 70% of the market share.



I doubt the early announcement of the 1Dx specs have had much impact on the D4, expect for maybe the expanded ISO to Hi-4. I'm pretty sure that Nikon and Canon both develop their cameras way in advance, and it would be difficult to make last minutes changes to them in terms of advancement in technology.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 6, 2012)

JR said:


> It did give them time to tweek their marketing approach for sure (focus on weight, *F8 AF*, etc).



I certainly noticed that Nikon is highlighting the f/8 AF ability. But...I'd be very interested to know exactly how they implemented this. From the published information: "..._the D4 maintains the power of the eleven central AF sensors, including one cross-type even if the combined open aperture value is f/8._" 

There are two possibilties:

[list type=decimal]
[*]It's the sensor. They redesigned their 51-point sensor to include additional sensor lines for the f/8 AF, such that the center point is an f/5.6- and f/8 dual cross-type sensor, and the other 10 points have additional f/8-sensitive line sensors. Canon's previous 1-series bodies had a unique center AF point which had a dedicated f/8-sensitive single-orientation sensor. 
[*]It's a firmware implementation. We know that Canon bodies which are limited to f/5.6 will try to AF and sometimes even do reasonably well with an f/8 combination that has pins on the TC taped (or a non-reporting 3rd party TC). Likewise, 3rd party f/6.3 lenses seem to AF ok on the f/5.6-sensitive sensors. So, Nikon may have simply tested the AF performance of lenses slower than f/5.6 on the D4, and enabled those points which gave decent results to AF with slower lenses.
[/list]

Personally, I'm almost positive it's #2. The subsequent statement in their announcement was: "_If the combined aperture value is between f/5.6 and f/8, you even have the power of fifteen central AF sensors available, of which nine are cross type sensors._" I highly doubt the AF sesnor has individual points of differential sensitivity, such that the center cross point has additional f/8 lines, and the surrounding 8 crosses have additional f/7.1 lines or something like that. 

Rather, it sounds like they saw the 1D X announcement with the lack of support for AF, tested the D4 models in development, found that they could get away with implementing f/8 AF for some of the points, slightly-wider-than-f/8 for a few more, and altered the firmware to make those points active with an f/8 lens attached. Unlike redeveloping the AF sensor, _that_ is something that could easily have been implemented for the D4 in the short time since the 1D X was announced (as could the H3/H4 ISO bumps). 

More importantly, if Nikon's f/8 AF is a firmware implemetation using existing f/5.6-sensitive AF points, it's very possible that Canon could test and then implement something similar, even prior to the actual release of the 1D X. Perhaps not the same number of AF points, but at least some support for f/8 AF. Then again, even if they _can_...will they? Previously, it made sense as a marketing strategy to drive people to buy longer lenses. But, from a competitive standpoint, matching Nikon's announced and touted f/8 AF capability may be more important...


----------



## jrista (Jan 6, 2012)

yuuko said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I'm stunned! I guess I was wrong about the ISO, and there really are FOUR levels of (imo...useless) expansion ISO. Which technically means there is no native ISO improvement over the D3s...???
> ...



Its one stop better on the expanded end. The D3s topped out at 102k ISO, where as the D4 tops out at 204k ISO. From a native ISO standpoint, the D4 does not appear to have made any improvements over the D3s.


----------



## BDD (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



neuroanatomist said:


> D4? Pthth. The 1D X has *2* more MP. It's _way_ better.   :



Same. I'll likely buy either the D800 or 5D3...most likely the 5D3 if it includes native ISO range of 50-12,800 or so. 

The D800 is rumored to top out at only 6400. So it's not really the best choice for low light shooting. And while the D4 has a max ISO of 204,xxx making it's photos shot at 12,800 better than the those using the same ISO on the D3s...I would have expected more native ISO...comparable to the 1D-X's 51,200. 

One question I'm wondering about is...Which AF system will track better? The D4 or 1D-X. Looking forwards to the test reports.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially*



BDD said:


> One question I'm wondering about is...Which AF system will track better? The D4 or 1D-X. Looking forwards to the test reports.



Based of the AF system specs, the 1D X should be better - more points, more cross-type points, contributions from a higher-res AE sensor, and a dedicated processor for AF/AE. But a lot depends on the algorithms for movement prediction, so we'll have to wait for the empirical tests. When you do finally see them, remember that the lens plays a role too, especially for Canon (faster lenses mean more cross-type points).


----------



## dr croubie (Jan 6, 2012)

dilbert said:


> To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.



Bring back the 1200mm f/5.6!


----------



## briansquibb (Jan 6, 2012)

dilbert said:


> To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.



Quick - buy a 1D4 and keep the f/8 for the 600+2x

Price of used 1Ds3 has started to come down - I am mighty tempted to buy a low actuation body for £2500/c $3800 and sell the 2x7D and 5DII which would pay for it.


----------



## cfargo (Jan 7, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.
> ...



I know many that no longer use their 1Ds3 preferring to use their 5D2 instead. Some of these are Canon Explorers of Light. If you’re shooting something that needs speed, then go with the 1D4 otherwise the 5D2 for portraiture and landscapes. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## briansquibb (Jan 7, 2012)

cfargo said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



There is so much better with the 1Ds3 - like the AF and high iso etc

I know that lots dont like the size and weight of the 1 series, but they are fine for me

I have decided to go with the 1Ds3 and keep the 5DII as well, so just need to sell the two 7Ds


----------



## wickidwombat (Jan 7, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.
> ...



in the last couple of months the price of used 1D4s have gone up considerably


----------



## dlleno (Jul 9, 2012)

dilbert said:


> What might end up happening is a 1DXn within the next 12 months that addresses this issue and this issue alone - that is unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat between now and general availability of the 1DX.



A firmware update to the 1DX might do it. unless the underlying hardware is just not capable, in which case Canon has some serious egg on face


----------



## Kernuak (Jul 9, 2012)

dlleno said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > What might end up happening is a 1DXn within the next 12 months that addresses this issue and this issue alone - that is unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat between now and general availability of the 1DX.
> ...


Unless they sacrificed f/8 AF for AF accuracy. It depends on what is more important to each photographer.


----------



## dlleno (Jul 9, 2012)

sure -- f8 AF performance is likely to be worse than f/5.6, so Canon will have to decide if reduced functionality/performance AF is worth it, compared to what Nikon is offering.


----------



## Kernuak (Jul 9, 2012)

dlleno said:


> sure -- f8 AF performance is likely to be worse than f/5.6, so Canon will have to decide if reduced functionality/performance AF is worth it, compared to what Nikon is offering.


From bits and pieces I've picked up (not necessarily reliable), f/8 AF could affect performance across the board, including fast primes. At Focus on Imaging, the question was asked by a wildlife pro about f/8 (to the CPS rep, who had only had the camera overnight) and the response was, would you prefer f/8 AF or better accuracy with all other lenses? The photographer conceded reluctantly that AF on f/8 lenses (i.e. big whites with extenders) wasn't very quick or reliable anyway.


----------



## dlleno (Jul 9, 2012)

Thats an interesting take. I suspect the market (Nikon) will determine the need for f/8 AF, and that if Canon wanted to adjust their firmware to enable f/8 AF while preserving full capability /performance at f/5.6 they could do it. High performance AF may be the differentiator that Canon is going for, though, and for the pro series bodies they could win the argument on the technical merits, i.e. if what you say is true then not many pros will jump brands just to get poorer AF performance at f/8


----------



## coltsfreak18 (Jul 9, 2012)

Guys, remember when posting that this is a six month old thread.


----------

