# Vehicle AF and more coming to the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 in December firmware update



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 16, 2021)

> I reported a couple of weeks ago that we’d be getting new firmware for the Canon EOS R5 sometime around the Canon EOS R3 ship date of November 26, 2021. This release has now been confirmed along with new firmware for both the Canon EOS R6 and Canon EOS-1D X Mark III.
> One of the new features for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 is “vehicle” AF mode. The EOS-1D X Mark III will not get this feature. The Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 will also receive updates to eye and face detection AF.
> The Canon EOS-1D X Mark III will receive an update to head detection AF.
> Another worthwhile new feature for the EOS R5 and EOS R6 is “SMOOTH...



Continue reading...


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## mrproxy (Nov 16, 2021)

"Added White Capture Mode in Live View (Manual White Balance) " <- Good!


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## risto0 (Nov 16, 2021)

still no focus point based spot exposure measuring for R5


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## koenkooi (Nov 16, 2021)

risto0 said:


> still no focus point based spot exposure measuring for R5


I don't think we'll ever get that as a firmware update for the R5. Maybe in a few years Canon allows it to move downward to non-flagships, but I bet the exposure algorithms will have improved so much to render it unnecessary at that point.


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## LSXPhotog (Nov 16, 2021)

Interesting...very interesting. This most certainly comes as a pleasant surprise to me and it will be two days before my final race of 2021 where I will hopefully have my preordered R3 in my hands. To know that all my cameras will be equally as capable tracking subject and race cars makes me extremely happy.


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## VadaPhoto (Nov 16, 2021)

Fantastic news. I assumed they would keep those AF improvements for the R3.


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## LSXPhotog (Nov 16, 2021)

risto0 said:


> still no focus point based spot exposure measuring for R5


So I hear about this quite a lot and I can tell you that shooting real estate, my exposure meter response directly to where the AF point is. When I move it to a dark area, the meter reads underexposed. When I go to a bright area, the meter shows overexposure. So I always assumed it did this?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2021)

risto0 said:


> still no focus point based spot exposure measuring for R5




The R3 doesn’t have it, either. I think in the digital ILC world, Canon will forever reserve that feature for 1-series bodies.


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## risto0 (Nov 16, 2021)

also i do not see a fix for a but that when (at least) EF 70-200 L 2.8 IS II is attached to the camera, and when downloading images to PC via cable, then the IS in ON all the time and makes krrrrr noise, unless I slide the slider on the lens to OFF. During file transfer those things should go OFF automatically, or not even turn on when the cable or PC is detected.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> So I hear about this quite a lot and I can tell you that shooting real estate, my exposure meter response directly to where the AF point is. When I move it to a dark area, the meter reads underexposed. When I go to a bright area, the meter shows overexposure. So I always assumed it did this?


Evaluative metering biases the exposure calculation to the selected AF point, but it’s not spot metering.


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## Ruiloba (Nov 16, 2021)

Great news for the R5 firmware. They are still alive for Canon


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## Gazwas (Nov 16, 2021)

mrproxy said:


> "Added White Capture Mode in Live View (Manual White Balance) " <- Good!


Certainly a big improvement over the current terrible way it works.

Here's hoping this to be also available in video mode to save having to switch between photo and video just to custom white balance.


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## Adrianf (Nov 16, 2021)

I was hoping for a lower FPS option when using the electronic shutter - maybe next time?


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## Bob Howland (Nov 16, 2021)

OK Canon, now build all this nifty firmware into an APS-C R7 with 24MP and 20FPS at $2000.

Correction: $1600


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## -pekr- (Nov 16, 2021)

I don't know - adding another modes might be nice, but I still have gripes, with how messy all those modes are.

- The old school servo tracking is exactly that - well, old school. Working against the logic of other modes. I don't want my camera to refocus when I move it, I want it to lock on the subject and track it. So in single point mode, no servo for me.

- Face tracking mode - default setting is useless for most users - no initial point displayed? So you are basically waiting for a camera to choose something from the scene to jump onto? This is a joke. So for face tracking mode, the servo mode feels better, at least to both me and my wife.

So, from focus and recompose, we've got ourselves to focus, track and recompose.


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## sanj (Nov 16, 2021)

I was hoping for the 30 minute record limited to be lifted.


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## -pekr- (Nov 16, 2021)

sanj said:


> I was hoping for the 30 minute record limited to be lifted.



I can't read anything about that on the internets anymore, so I thought the limitation is gone already?


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## SV (Nov 16, 2021)

Those are some nice updates for the R5/6.

Pleasantly surprised with "Added EVF Smooth to suppress lower frame rates in low light" - hopefully this improves handheld low light shooting when manually focusing for macro by reducing the image "jitter" when the light is low.


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## Gazwas (Nov 16, 2021)

sanj said:


> I was hoping for the 30 minute record limited to be lifted.


Never sadly, especially with rumours of an R5C.


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## Bonich (Nov 16, 2021)

risto0 said:


> still no focus point based spot exposure measuring for R5


I never needed such a dinosaur of then gone DSLR area while using modern mirrorless cameras.

In my life a focus point does not represent anything needed for perfect exposure, nothing!


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## Kiton (Nov 16, 2021)

Failure to address the frame rate in electronic shutter! ACK!!

Items 4 and 5 are nice.


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## SilverBox (Nov 16, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> I don't know - adding another modes might be nice, but I still have gripes, with how messy all those modes are.
> 
> - The old school servo tracking is exactly that - well, old school. Working against the logic of other modes. I don't want my camera to refocus when I move it, I want it to lock on the subject and track it. So in single point mode, no servo for me.
> 
> ...



Canon would do themselves a favor by changing the default settings of the camera, for sure. 

If AF Operation is set to Servo AF (AF menu 1) and Initial Servo AF pt for Face [] is set to anything except auto (AF menu 5), then you have old school servo with focus and recompose subject tracking.

Add those as default and, god forbid, back-button AF, and you're in business.


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## sanj (Nov 16, 2021)

Bonich said:


> I never needed such a dinosaur of then gone DSLR area while using modern mirrorless cameras.
> 
> In my life a focus point does not represent anything needed for perfect exposure, nothing!


I thought it is a good feature. Why don't you appreciate it? Thx.


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## bbasiaga (Nov 16, 2021)

Glad to see the R6 getting some love here! Its already great, and getting better. 

Brian


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## Sailing (Nov 16, 2021)

Stabilization wobble fix when using wide angle lenses?


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## allanP (Nov 16, 2021)

Adrianf said:


> I was hoping for a lower FPS option when using the electronic shutter - maybe next time?



That's exactly what is still missing. Why not in this FW?


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## Fischer (Nov 16, 2021)

"Vehicle AF" is very, very big for me (like 50K pictures/y big). Amazing to have as an update. Can't wait to try it out. Would have bought a new camera just for this function (if it works). Now I just need a large MPIX 5Rs and a 300mm f/2.8 and I could not wish for more.


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## Traveler (Nov 16, 2021)

Please Canon give me more flexibility. I want to be able to map all controllers in Fv mode (don’t need the rear one to select parameters when there are four wheels on the camera). 
Let me also chose drive modes or silent shooting with one button. I don’t know why these are not allowed.


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## slclick (Nov 16, 2021)

Bonich said:


> I never needed such a dinosaur of then gone DSLR area while using modern mirrorless cameras.
> 
> In my life a focus point does not represent anything needed for perfect exposure, nothing!


Because dslr's went out with churning butter, horse drawn carriages and proper sentence structure.


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## Gazwas (Nov 16, 2021)

Traveler said:


> Please Canon give me more flexibility. I want to be able to map all controllers in Fv mode (don’t need the rear one to select parameters when there are four wheels on the camera).
> Let me also chose drive modes or silent shooting with one button. I don’t know why these are not allowed.


Add to that better/more options for button customisation.

That big depth of filed preview button that I've never used is crying out to be used as a REC button in video mode.


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## Scenes (Nov 16, 2021)

Gazwas said:


> Add to that better/more options for button customisation.
> 
> That big depth of filed preview button that I've never used is crying out to be used as a REC button in video mode.


Can’t you custom set that now?


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## AlanF (Nov 16, 2021)

sanj said:


> I thought it is a good feature. Why don't you appreciate it? Thx.


Metering locked to a focus point isn't of much interest to me for the way I shoot - full manual (Fv) adjusting the exposure from what I see through the evf. When I am doing a bird in flight against a background I don't want the exposure changing during a burst, and I want in general when its flying or perched without the highlights bleached or the body too dark when backlit. With my DSLR, I used to have the mode dial set up for different levels of over- or under-exposure and I'd switch between them. The WYSIWYG exposure through an evf is a real plus for me as I have realtime control, and I use it for all my shooting and not just birds.


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## Gazwas (Nov 16, 2021)

Scenes said:


> Can’t you custom set that now?


Loved to be told different or better told how but I’ve not found a setting for REC.


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## melgross (Nov 16, 2021)

With all the complaints (and no matter what Canon does, we will always have more), this is a great update.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2021)

Bonich said:


> I never needed such a dinosaur of then gone DSLR area while using modern mirrorless cameras.
> 
> In my life a focus point does not represent anything needed for perfect exposure, nothing!


Evaluative metering (at least on a DSLR) usually gives you this with a BIF against the sky:




Haven't shot that use case on my EOS R, do MILCs expose for the bird in that scenario, or do you rely on several stops of shadow lifting?


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## Rocksthaman (Nov 16, 2021)

Canon please fix 30 min record limit, ibis wobble or at least let us just use lens or digital stabilization separately, and custom modes for video on r6.

And please please please add a AWB lock and for it to go to a custom button. Drives me nuts shooting events in mixed lighting.


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## entoman (Nov 16, 2021)

Adrianf said:


> I was hoping for a lower FPS option when using the electronic shutter - maybe next time?


Maybe not, methinks…


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## rbielefeld (Nov 16, 2021)

Dang, no fake shutter noise or slower fps options for ES.


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## entoman (Nov 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Evaluative metering (at least on a DSLR) usually gives you this with a BIF against the sky:
> 
> View attachment 201231
> 
> ...


With my R5, for BIF shots against a blue sky, I find that partial (manual) metering from the sky, and about plus half a stop of compensation usually does the trick.

Using any kind of automatic metering (P, Av, Tv) is unreliable, as the exposure will then be affected as the background changes (to clouds, clear sky, or forest) while panning.


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## BBarn (Nov 16, 2021)

I'm pleased that Canon continues to offer firmware updates for improved performance. But like several other users, I'd like more flexibility in the assignment of button functions. In particular, I do not use any of the features currently assignable to the RATE button. It would be nice to have more flexibility in assigning that button's function.


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## HikeBike (Nov 16, 2021)

They further enhanced face and eye AF?! I already thought it was nothing short of amazing. I'm also very happy about body detection and the low-light stutter fix.


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## TimKamppinen (Nov 16, 2021)

Spot metering tied to focus point would be a godsend for shooting a subject in front of a bright background with flash. Think of a portrait at sunset. All you see currently through the EVF is a silhouette because the auto-exposed preview when using flash just balances for the overall scene. Impossible to see your subject’s expression. It’s even more annoying in a candid situation where you need to time your shots like reception toasts in front of a bright window. You can use spot metering but it only helps if you compose with the subject dead center of the frame.


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## Del Paso (Nov 16, 2021)

Bonich said:


> I never needed such a dinosaur of then gone DSLR area while using modern mirrorless cameras.
> 
> In my life a focus point does not represent anything needed for perfect exposure, nothing!


Different photographers, different needs.
I'd like to have this feature!


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## Kit. (Nov 16, 2021)

risto0 said:


> also i do not see a fix for a but that when (at least) EF 70-200 L 2.8 IS II is attached to the camera, and when downloading images to PC via cable, then the IS in ON all the time and makes krrrrr noise, unless I slide the slider on the lens to OFF. During file transfer those things should go OFF automatically, or not even turn on when the cable or PC is detected.


Aren't you still able to shoot pictures despite the download process?

At least when it comes to remote shooting via CCAPI, you can live-view and shoot new pictures and download older pictures in parallel.


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## Exploreshootshare (Nov 16, 2021)

I think it's kind of odd that Canon didn't/ doesn't release any firmware updates for the R/ RP. Yes, I know, being released in Oct. 2018 and spring 2019 means they're basically outdated. But since there have been no successors to both models yet and Canon has released several affordable consumers lenses and probably is going to add the RF 24mm and maybe the RF 18-45mm soon, it would make great sense to show both cameras some love and give them a slight upgrade. Especially the R has a great value with current pricing, with a small firmware update Canon would surely boost its sales.

There's not much that needs to be done there:
- 8 FPS with full auto-focus maybe
- improved eye-AF
- 4k 60 FPS

One of these three suggestions would make for a great firmware update. (and the other ones for update No. 2 & 3


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## Juangrande (Nov 16, 2021)

Gazwas said:


> Add to that better/more options for button customisation.
> 
> That big depth of filed preview button that I've never used is crying out to be used as a REC button in video mode.


I just saw a YouTube video a couple days ago from Roberto Valenzuela and he mapped the depth of field preview to do exactly that. He said when he’s shooting (most likely a wedding) and he anticipates action about to happen that he wants to be sure not to miss, he sets the DOF preview to shoot 8K when pressed do he can grab highest quality stills later. So you must be missing something. This was on the R5 maybe your on a different camera.


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## Juangrande (Nov 16, 2021)

Scenes said:


> Can’t you custom set that now?
> 
> 
> Scenes said:
> ...


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## usern4cr (Nov 16, 2021)

The frequently mentioned updates they need (but didn't do here) is to offer different FPS for (continuous shooting) electronic shutter, and remove the 30min record limit.

But I would still like to see an "aperture bracketing" feature offered. You can bracket a lot of things, and I really want to bracket apertures when taking some of my photos!


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## rbielefeld (Nov 16, 2021)

entoman said:


> With my R5, for BIF shots against a blue sky, I find that partial (manual) metering from the sky, and about plus half a stop of compensation usually does the trick.
> 
> Using any kind of automatic metering (P, Av, Tv) is unreliable, as the exposure will then be affected as the background changes (to clouds, clear sky, or forest) while panning.


I agree 100%. The only sure way to get the correct exposure on a BIF is to set the exposure for the bird using M exposure. That way no matter if the background luminosity changes as the bird flies against blue sky then mid-tonal trees and then dark water all within a few seconds of flight time, the exposure on the bird will be correct. Well, as long as you did a good job on setting the exposure. But at least you can't blame your equipment for the bad exposure.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> But I would still like to see an "aperture bracketing" feature offered. You can bracket a lot of things, and I really want to bracket apertures when taking some of my photos!


If you’re in Fv mode, have ISO and shuttter speed set to fixed values and aperture set to Auto, then use exposure bracketing, wouldn’t that give you aperture bracketing?

I haven’t tried it, but in Fv with fixed ISO and shutter, applying EC changes the aperture so AEB should do that as well.


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## Hobby (Nov 16, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> I think it's kind of odd that Canon didn't/ doesn't release any firmware updates for the R/ RP. Yes, I know, being released in Oct. 2018 and spring 2019 means they're basically outdated. But since there have been no successors to both models yet and Canon has released several affordable consumers lenses and probably is going to add the RF 24mm and maybe the RF 18-45mm soon, it would make great sense to show both cameras some love and give them a slight upgrade. Especially the R has a great value with current pricing, with a small firmware update Canon would surely boost its sales.
> 
> There's not much that needs to be done there:
> - 8 FPS with full auto-focus maybe
> ...


Exactly. Just a little polish, and we would be so happy. 
But you could say the same for the M6 ii. And it won't happen!


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## Exploreshootshare (Nov 16, 2021)

Hobby said:


> But you could say the same for the M6 ii. And it won't happen!


Sadly, that's true (so far)! But I firmly believe that Canon has to step its game with the M-line and affordable RF mount lenses/ cameras because Nikon has a pretty good selling Z50 now and Sony has an entire line-up. So a little product care here and there would be helpful.


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## Juangrande (Nov 16, 2021)

I found the info your looking for. It starts at 20:43


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## Juangrande (Nov 16, 2021)

Gazwas said:


> Loved to be told different or better told how but I’ve not found a setting for REC.






Go to 20:43 and it shows you how to do exactly that.


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## entoman (Nov 16, 2021)

HikeBike said:


> They further enhanced face and eye AF?! I already thought it was nothing short of amazing.


Eye-AF already works great for humans, and is pretty reliable for cats and dogs.
Most of the time it works on birds too.
But it’s completely useless for hippos and warthogs.
And zebras. Those stripes fool the eye-AF.
I want warthog eye-AF and I want it now.
No excuses.


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## Hobby (Nov 16, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Sadly, that's true (so far)! But I firmly believe that Canon has to step its game with the M-line and affordable RF mount lenses/ cameras because Nikon has a pretty good selling Z50 now and Sony has an entire line-up. So a little product care here and there would be helpful.


Completely agree. Recently I was considering a Sony a7 iv to have access to all those nice Tamron lenses...  But than I took my Canon-medicine, and now it's over. Probably an R6. Looks amazing!


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## domo_p1000 (Nov 16, 2021)

Always very happy to have a few refinements.


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## dlee13 (Nov 16, 2021)

I’m thankful that Canon are adding so much more than a year after release but also so disappointed there’s no zebra highlight warnings still….


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## GMAX (Nov 16, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> I think it's kind of odd that Canon didn't/ doesn't release any firmware updates for the R/ RP. Yes, I know, being released in Oct. 2018 and spring 2019 means they're basically outdated. But since there have been no successors to both models yet and Canon has released several affordable consumers lenses and probably is going to add the RF 24mm and maybe the RF 18-45mm soon, it would make great sense to show both cameras some love and give them a slight upgrade. Especially the R has a great value with current pricing, with a small firmware update Canon would surely boost its sales.
> 
> There's not much that needs to be done there:
> - 8 FPS with full auto-focus maybe
> ...


…and the R would definitely deserve a focusstacking update!


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## koenkooi (Nov 16, 2021)

Hobby said:


> [..]But you could say the same for the M6 ii. And it won't happen!


I'm still holding out a tiny bit of hope for EFCS support in a future update!


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## Gazwas (Nov 16, 2021)

Juangrande said:


> Go to 20:43 and it shows you how to do exactly that.


AMAZING, thank you so much!!

You would not believe how many times I've waded through the R5's settings trying to find a way to do that and all the while overlooking it.


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## Viggo (Nov 16, 2021)

TimKamppinen said:


> Spot metering tied to focus point would be a godsend for shooting a subject in front of a bright background with flash. Think of a portrait at sunset. All you see currently through the EVF is a silhouette because the auto-exposed preview when using flash just balances for the overall scene. Impossible to see your subject’s expression. It’s even more annoying in a candid situation where you need to time your shots like reception toasts in front of a bright window. You can use spot metering but it only helps if you compose with the subject dead center of the frame.


With flash and portrait you shoot M and turn off exp.sim


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2021)

Viggo said:


> With flash and portrait you shoot M and turn off exp.sim


That depends on the flash setup. Sure, if you’re using a single flash on the camera for fill then you set the camera exposure for ambient. But with many of my shoots, all the light is from strobes (4-5 of them), including background. With that setup (low ISO, narrow aperture, shutter of 1/200 or slower), ‘ambient’ is essentially black.


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## snappy604 (Nov 16, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> I don't know - adding another modes might be nice, but I still have gripes, with how messy all those modes are.
> 
> - The old school servo tracking is exactly that - well, old school. Working against the logic of other modes. I don't want my camera to refocus when I move it, I want it to lock on the subject and track it. So in single point mode, no servo for me.
> 
> ...


I may be mis-reading your comment here.. but think what you want is in the Auto Focus (pink) menu, page 5. Initial Servo AF pt for  you can set the initial point for face detect.






26:31

I basically put square in middle, and then click to focus on the face/bird and then move to compose as the subject moves.. it tracks.


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## snappy604 (Nov 16, 2021)

very happy to see them continue to improve the AI on focus and continue to provide updates for it.

wish they still had better ways to control the IBIS.. its not bad, just wish better esp on turning it off and just allowing lens IS on sometimes. I think IBIS has minor conflicts sometimes with 3rd party lens IS and panning (e.g sigma 150-600)


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## Kit. (Nov 16, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> I think it's kind of odd that Canon didn't/ doesn't release any firmware updates for the R/ RP. Yes, I know, being released in Oct. 2018 and spring 2019 means they're basically outdated. But since there have been no successors to both models yet and Canon has released several affordable consumers lenses and probably is going to add the RF 24mm and maybe the RF 18-45mm soon, it would make great sense to show both cameras some love and give them a slight upgrade. Especially the R has a great value with current pricing, with a small firmware update Canon would surely boost its sales.
> 
> There's not much that needs to be done there:
> - 8 FPS with full auto-focus maybe
> ...


I'm afraid, you are asking for a _hardware_ update here.



entoman said:


> Eye-AF already works great for humans, and is pretty reliable for cats and dogs.
> Most of the time it works on birds too.
> But it’s completely useless for hippos and warthogs.
> And zebras. Those stripes fool the eye-AF.


Doesn't even work reliably on wild boars.


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## TimKamppinen (Nov 16, 2021)

Viggo said:


> With flash and portrait you shoot M and turn off exp.sim


The scenario I described is shooting in manual, and using a flash automatically disables exposure simulation, so that’s not a solution. You have failed to understand the problem I described.


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## Exploreshootshare (Nov 16, 2021)

GMAX said:


> …and the R would definitely deserve a focusstacking update!


Ohhhhhhhhhhhh yes it would! Totally agree


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## slclick (Nov 16, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Ohhhhhhhhhhhh yes it would! Totally agree


FW updates for those models might just be as high on the list as updating the T2i for Canon. I know we all have our personal wish lists from Canon but I'll refer you to Neuro for snarky retorts on atypical selfish requests.


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## Pixel (Nov 16, 2021)

entoman said:


> Eye-AF already works great for humans, and is pretty reliable for cats and dogs.
> Most of the time it works on birds too.
> But it’s completely useless for hippos and warthogs.
> And zebras. Those stripes fool the eye-AF.
> ...


I can't wait for the press release that says Canon is proud to announce that warthogs and hippos are now fully supported.


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## Jethro (Nov 16, 2021)

slclick said:


> FW updates for those models might just be as high on the list as updating the T2i for Canon. I know we all have our personal wish lists from Canon but I'll refer you to Neuro for snarky retorts on atypical selfish requests.


I agree with this sentiment, but the request for focus bracketing on the EOS R is ... a bit different to that. It already exists on the 5Div (ie the same sensor as the EOS R - so no Q of a hardware deficiency), it was introduced (I think via a FW update!) on the lower level EOS RP, and this bracketing function on every other FF mirrorless is supported in a half-decent focus stacking function in DPP! But, at this stage, I guess it's more about whether there will be any more FW updates for the EOS R at all rather than for particular functions ...


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## Andy Westwood (Nov 16, 2021)

Fabulous this is a welcome surprise, great to see Canon investing in its current models with updates rather than saving them all for the MK II versions.

Is this Canon aggressively fighting back at Sony’s latest offerings? I particularly love any improvements in AF.


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## shire_guy (Nov 16, 2021)

Quite happily surprised by the breadth of this update particularly the AF improvements. I can't recall the 5DIII or 5DIV getting such attention but I think one got a f/8 focus feature. I wonder if the so called AI part of the AF recognition means it's easier to improve this feature.


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## usern4cr (Nov 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> If you’re in Fv mode, have ISO and shuttter speed set to fixed values and aperture set to Auto, then use exposure bracketing, wouldn’t that give you aperture bracketing?
> 
> I haven’t tried it, but in Fv with fixed ISO and shutter, applying EC changes the aperture so AEB should do that as well.


I have tried that, but I don't want the exposure to bracket when I do this. I want to have a fixed exposure (such as -1/2) and whatever aperture bracket I specify.
In an ideal world, you'd have the option to bracket any major feature, and even allow multiple brackets to combine with each other, and have the filename add a few characters at the end to indicate what was bracketed for each photo.

But thanks for the feedback.


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## Cochese (Nov 16, 2021)

Bonich said:


> I never needed such a dinosaur of then gone DSLR area while using modern mirrorless cameras.
> 
> In my life a focus point does not represent anything needed for perfect exposure, nothing!



Your comment reads as though it's someone's idea of a joke, it's hard to tell. 

Spot metering is great for various instances. There's a reason it's survived all of these years. And even more so, I've found a lot of use for it in video work. Especially when recording scenes with an intense light in one spot that I want to specifcally meter for. It works incredibly well for that. Or under certain lighting setups while photographing people with an intense difference in lighting conditions and I want to only expose for a specific point instead of the camera trying to guess where I'm exposing. I don't know, seems to work the best for me.

That's just my use-cases. But again, you're not me or anybody else. Get over yourself.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I have tried that, but I don't want the exposure to bracket when I do this. I want to have a fixed exposure (such as -1/2) and whatever aperture bracket I specify.
> In an ideal world, you'd have the option to bracket any major feature, and even allow multiple brackets to combine with each other, and have the filename add a few characters at the end to indicate what was bracketed for each photo.
> 
> But thanks for the feedback.


Makes sense. But then, I have to ask about your statement that ‘you can bracket a lot of things’. Other than exposure, and more recently focus, what can you bracket automatically?

FWIW, I’ve done plenty of aperture bracketing when doing lens test. A dial clicked in one direction, the other dial clicked in the opposite direction, shoot, repeat.


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## jam05 (Nov 17, 2021)

Looks like admin was surprised as more than was expected is to be released. The processor of the R5 is more than capable of handling the R3 functions along with the new VR additions.


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## sanj (Nov 17, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Metering locked to a focus point isn't of much interest to me for the way I shoot - full manual (Fv) adjusting the exposure from what I see through the evf. When I am doing a bird in flight against a background I don't want the exposure changing during a burst, and I want in general when its flying or perched without the highlights bleached or the body too dark when backlit. With my DSLR, I used to have the mode dial set up for different levels of over- or under-exposure and I'd switch between them. The WYSIWYG exposure through an evf is a real plus for me as I have realtime control, and I use it for all my shooting and not just birds.


I shoot AV. And focus point metering is huge for me.


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## jam05 (Nov 17, 2021)

Adrianf said:


> I was hoping for a lower FPS option when using the electronic shutter - maybe next time?


Not enough people are requesting the option yet. Exactly what advantage is gained by lower FPS using electronic shutter? I have yet to encounter a situation that I need it.


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## SereneSpeed (Nov 17, 2021)

Viggo said:


> With flash and portrait you shoot M and turn off exp.sim


Please tell me exp.sim works with a flash in the hotshoe?!?

With the EOS R as soon as anything sits in the hotshoe, the camera refuses to show exposure simulation and just shows a ‘basic’ exposure. For me, balancing LED lights, ambient light, and strobes, exposure simulation with a controller in the hotshoe would be a dream scenario...


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## usern4cr (Nov 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Makes sense. But then, I have to ask about your statement that ‘you can bracket a lot of things’. Other than exposure, and more recently focus, what can you bracket automatically?
> 
> FWIW, I’ve done plenty of aperture bracketing when doing lens test. A dial clicked in one direction, the other dial clicked in the opposite direction, shoot, repeat.


There is currently exposure bracketing, focus bracketing, and white balance bracketing (the need for that one mystifies me).

It would be useful to also have aperture bracketing, speed bracketing, and ISO bracketing. Then you would have the ability to bracket all of the main controls of photography if you wanted to. And for the record, the focus bracketing should allow you to bracket around (+ AND -) your current focus setting (such as eye AF) when the exposure button is pressed.

I have to manually do aperture bracketing now. It is one of the most important things I do. I just want the ability of the camera to do it for me, just like a lot of other great camera features that have been added.


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## usern4cr (Nov 17, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Not enough people are requesting the option yet. Exactly what advantage is gained by lower FPS using electronic shutter? I have yet to encounter a situation that I need it.


The advantage is that some people (like me) don't want to have thousands of images to wade through in post when using (continuous shooting) full electronic shutter. If I can have the option to slow it down to 10 or 5 (or whatever I feel like) then I can be happy to get a tolerable number of images and not too many images to wade through in post.

As it is, I find 20 FPS to be far too many for me to wade through in post. I set it instead to electronic first curtain and the slowest FPS setting for it and I'm happy. But I'd like that ability to choose FPS in full electronic shutter for the times I want to shoot silently.

And I have seen a very large number of people requesting user FPS setting in (continuous shooting) full electronic shutter mode. If Canon can't care to respond to that many users, then it's on them (and not us).


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> There is currently exposure bracketing, focus bracketing, and white balance bracketing (the need for that one mystifies me).
> 
> It would be useful to also have aperture bracketing, speed bracketing, and ISO bracketing. Then you would have the ability to bracket the main controls of photography if you wanted to. And for the record, the focus bracketing should allow you to bracket around (+ AND -) your current focus setting when the exposure button is pressed.
> 
> I have to manually do aperture bracketing now. It is one of the most important things I do. I just want the ability of the camera to do it for me, just like a lot of other great camera features that have been added.


WB bracketing, thanks. I forgot that one (likely because I also fail to see the utility, since I shoot RAW).

What is the use case for aperture bracketing? Can you shoot tethered for it, and if so I wonder if Reikan FoCal’s aperture sharpness test could be co-opted for that (probably not as it may require their focus target, just thinking with my keyboard).


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## jam05 (Nov 17, 2021)

Adrianf said:


> I was hoping for a lower FPS option when using the electronic shutter - maybe next time?


Actually the 20 FPS in electronic shutter mode is the Maximum Continuous shutter speed when holding down the shutter. It is not the minimum. From 1-20. You know this of course. Not sure that holding it less is difficult. How many people hold down the shutter button until it stops?


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## jam05 (Nov 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> The advantage is that some people (like me) don't want to have thousands of images to wade through in post when using full electronic shutter. If I can have the option to slow it down to 10 or 5 (or whatever I feel like) then I can be happy to get a tolerable number of images and not too many images to wade through in post.
> 
> As it is, I find 20 FPS to be far too many for me to wade through in post. I set it instead to electronic first curtain and the slowest FPS setting for it and I'm happy. But I'd like that ability to choose FPS in full electronic shutter for the times I want to shoot silently.
> 
> And I have seen a very large number of people requesting user FPS setting in full electronic shutter mode. If Canon can't care to respond to that many users, then it's on them (and not us).


You may have seen a few people posting on the internet. And most concerned with the video mode. But NOT requesting your concern in Canon Customer Support. Thats where it counts. 20 FPS is the Max shutter speed in continuous. Not the minimum. You wont have many photos if you simply released that shutter button. Its very simple to do. Muscle memory. Train yourself not to hold it down so long or take it out of continuous. Not hard to do. You do not have to squeeze off 20fps in continuous. Simple not the case. You can squeeze off 1-20 FPS. Its not an entry level camera. Its Easy Peasy to squeeze 1 - 3 frames once you get used to doing it. Just because your auto speedometer has maximum of 180mph doesnt mean you have to hold your foot down. Same principle.


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## usern4cr (Nov 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> WB bracketing, thanks. I forgot that one (likely because I also fail to see the utility, since I shoot RAW).
> 
> What is the use case for aperture bracketing? Can you shoot tethered for it, and if so I wonder if Reikan FoCal’s aperture sharpness test could be co-opted for that (probably not as it may require their focus target, just thinking with my keyboard).


I also shoot only RAW, and I also set the WB to a fixed value (5000 I think) so that I don't have to worry about what it was in post (I can re-set it in post if it looks off), and also so that it doesn't change when I do panoramas or other bracketing shots. So bracketed WB is useless to me, too, but I'd rather they have bracketing options I don't use, than NOT to have bracketing options I really need to use.

My main use for aperture bracketing is to control big background blur amounts vs either sufficient depth of main subject DOF or fast enough exposure to eliminate subject motion blur. I like to bracket aperture from wide open to a few stopped down values of various steps and then pick the best shot in post. Having the aperture auto-bracket with user settings would take all of these shots at almost the exact same time, which I can't do now since I have to stop and change a dial and reshoot for each shot.


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## usern4cr (Nov 17, 2021)

jam05 said:


> You may have seen a few people posting on the internet. But NOT requesting in Canon Customer Support. Thats where it counts. 20 FPS is the Max shutter speed in continuous. Not the minimum. You wont have many photos is you simply released that shutter button. It very simple to do. Muscle memory. Train yourself not to hold it down so long or take it out of continuous. Not hard to do.


20 FPS is the ONLY setting for (continuous shooting) full electronic shutter mode on the R5 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I am fully able to hold the shutter for long or short times when I want to. When I have a great view of a subject and want to hold the shutter down for a long duration in hopes of them doing something great, I hold it down. When I want to take a single picture I hold and release quick just fine, so that's not the issue. I just want to control the FPS rate when holding it down - simple.


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## davo (Nov 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> That depends on the flash setup. Sure, if you’re using a single flash on the camera for fill then you set the camera exposure for ambient. But with many of my shoots, all the light is from strobes (4-5 of them), including background. With that setup (low ISO, narrow aperture, shutter of 1/200 or slower), ‘ambient’ is essentially black.


I use manual flash and camera settings. What I do to get exposure simulation of ambient with flash being used is I have the four small hotshoe terminals taped over so only the main large firing pin makes contact with my flash trigger. Now I see the ambient results on the camera as I adjust settings and my flashes still fire how I adjust them from my trigger.


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## SereneSpeed (Nov 17, 2021)

davo said:


> I use manual flash and camera settings. What I do to get exposure simulation of ambient with flash being used is I have the four small hotshoe terminals taped over so only the main large firing pin makes contact with my flash trigger. Now I see the ambient results on the camera as I adjust settings and my flashes still fire how I adjust them from my trigger.


If you do that, you won’t have HSS, eTTL, etc...

I reported this ‘feature’ as a bug to Canon, shortly after getting my EOS R.

Taping the contacts made me nervous. I could see adhesive getting into the hotshoe, so I didn’t go that route.

I cut a thin piece of plastic to the size of the hotshoe (that clear, tough to open without a blade kind of plastic, that nearly all small electronics are packed in). Then I punched a hole in the centre for the single centre pin. That works (ish) for manual only flash or triggering. But it’s a tight fit and again, I was afraid I’d damage the hotshoe. So now I use a male/female hotshoe pass through adapter meant for connecting a PC Sync cable. It only has a single pin and therefore exposure simulation works, but again, it disables HSS, which is a tool I use often.

I switch between that method and just turning off the transmitter to set the base exposure, then turning it back on. But the whole process adds unnecessary time and fumbling. And, as a result, I’ve missed peak poses and expressions from my clients.

I can’t see any logic for forcing the exposure simulation off, once a multi pin flash/controller is in the hotshoe and frankly, I don’t understand why more pros haven’t complained. WYSIWYG is in the top features of mirrorless for me. Right there with an histogram in the viewfinder and eye tracking AF...

*end of rant*


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## David - Sydney (Nov 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> 20 FPS is the ONLY setting for full electron shutter mode on the R5 (please correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> I am fully able to hold the shutter for long or short times when I want to. When I have a great view of a subject and want to hold the shutter down for a long duration in hopes of them doing something great, I hold it down. When I want to take a single picture I hold and release quick just fine, so that's not the issue. I just want to control the FPS rate when holding it down - simple.


Perhaps selecting a shutter speed slower than 1/20s?
A slow memory card slow it down after the buffer is full
Less than 50% battery (impacts the max mechanical shutter speed - maybe not the eshutter).
The manual is full of asterisks for not being able to the full fps


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## stevelee (Nov 17, 2021)

Fischer said:


> "Vehicle AF" is very, very big for me (like 50K pictures/y big). Amazing to have as an update. Can't wait to try it out. Would have bought a new camera just for this function (if it works). Now I just need a large MPIX 5Rs and a 300mm f/2.8 and I could not wish for more.


Explain vehicle AF to me and why you would find it useful. Right off, I have never had trouble focusing on a car, so I can’t imagine what this might do.


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## koenkooi (Nov 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> [..] What is the use case for aperture bracketing? Can you shoot tethered for it, and if so I wonder if Reikan FoCal’s aperture sharpness test could be co-opted for that (probably not as it may require their focus target, just thinking with my keyboard).


For me, aperture bracketing would be useful for natural light macro in the field: You sneak up on something, take the "I saw this!" shot, then start with the better composed shots, stopping down every shot till you are satisfied or the thing scurries away.
In M+auto ISO it's easy enough to do, just turn a single dial. But it grates a bit after using focus-stacking all morning


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## -pekr- (Nov 17, 2021)

snappy604 said:


> I may be mis-reading your comment here.. but think what you want is in the Auto Focus (pink) menu, page 5. Initial Servo AF pt for  you can set the initial point for face detect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's in fact the only useable mode for us. The old school servo mode, or a default mode without any square disabled, should be hidden as an option, or reworked. And that was my point, that you have to resort to special setting to have actually usable system. For us, of course. Never was patient enough to learn / experience BBF for example, but some clean-up in modes would be nice. 

Also - when I select some object and track it, and some face appears in the scene, and I still hold the shutter half-pressed, I hate when it jumps to the face, even if I did not instruct it to. Will have to tweak the settings further and we use option 2 already, which means, it should stick to the subject.


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## SnowMiku (Nov 17, 2021)

Bonich said:


> I never needed such a dinosaur of then gone DSLR area while using modern mirrorless cameras.
> 
> In my life a focus point does not represent anything needed for perfect exposure, nothing!


AF Spot metering would be very useful for birds, just set the AF point on the bird then get proper exposure without needing to use exposure compensation. Sometimes the background such as a sky is too bright for the bird so the camera will expose for the background and you need to increase the exposure. Any feature that would save time even if it's only just a second could be the difference of getting the shot or not.


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## koenkooi (Nov 17, 2021)

SnowMiku said:


> AF Spot metering would be very useful for birds, just set the AF point on the bird then get proper exposure without needing to use exposure compensation. Sometimes the background such as a sky is too bright for the bird so the camera will expose for the background and you need to increase the exposure. Any feature that would save time even if it's only just a second could be the difference of getting the shot or not.


I strongly suspect Canon will present something like "Metering with AI Machine Learning" to better handle birds, planes and Superman, and keep the af-linked-spot-metering in the 1-series. The R3 fell victim to the "IT'S NOT A 1 SERIES FLAGSHIP" screaming Canon PR does and also lacks that feature.


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## Kit. (Nov 17, 2021)

Cochese said:


> Spot metering is great for various instances. There's a reason it's survived all of these years. And even more so, I've found a lot of use for it in video work. Especially when recording scenes with an intense light in one spot that I want to specifcally meter for. It works incredibly well for that. Or under certain lighting setups while photographing people with an intense difference in lighting conditions and I want to only expose for a specific point instead of the camera trying to guess where I'm exposing. I don't know, seems to work the best for me.


Ideally, AI-tracked metering area and AI-tracked autofocus area should be different. For spot metering, one would want an area with minimal local contrast, while for focusing, high-contrast areas are better suited.


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## Otara (Nov 17, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Not enough people are requesting the option yet. Exactly what advantage is gained by lower FPS using electronic shutter? I have yet to encounter a situation that I need it.



Because the major advantage or need can be silence rather than wanting to take a lot of pictures. I suspect its more annoying when its not a mode you use too often, because if you switch from say single shot to silent, you're suddenly taking a ton of unnecessary shots if you're still in the same mindset.


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## Rzrsharp (Nov 17, 2021)

Great news to a R5 user!
R5 is more difficult to point the lens at the BIF more than I did it on my 5D MK IV, meanwhile the birds are easily flying out of the EVF and get lost even thougj R5 has a higher keep rate than 5D MK IV.


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## Otara (Nov 17, 2021)

jam05 said:


> You may have seen a few people posting on the internet. And most concerned with the video mode. But NOT requesting your concern in Canon Customer Support. Thats where it counts. 20 FPS is the Max shutter speed in continuous. Not the minimum. You wont have many photos if you simply released that shutter button. Its very simple to do. Muscle memory. Train yourself not to hold it down so long or take it out of continuous. Not hard to do. You do not have to squeeze off 20fps in continuous. Simple not the case. You can squeeze off 1-20 FPS. Its not an entry level camera. Its Easy Peasy to squeeze 1 - 3 frames once you get used to doing it. Just because your auto speedometer has maximum of 180mph doesnt mean you have to hold your foot down. Same principle.



If I was culling and had ~600 instead of 200 picture's to cull as a regular thing, that would get old. 

Id rather just have the machine do the speed limiting rather than waste time learning something thats just a normal feature in other shooting modes. Luckily most of the time I dont need full silence and its just easier to use the other modes, as you can also avoid the other minor issues that go with full electronic.


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## Viggo (Nov 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> That depends on the flash setup. Sure, if you’re using a single flash on the camera for fill then you set the camera exposure for ambient. But with many of my shoots, all the light is from strobes (4-5 of them), including background. With that setup (low ISO, narrow aperture, shutter of 1/200 or slower), ‘ambient’ is essentially black.


And with exp.sim off, you can see the ambient anyway


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## rbielefeld (Nov 17, 2021)

jam05 said:


> You may have seen a few people posting on the internet. And most concerned with the video mode. But NOT requesting your concern in Canon Customer Support. Thats where it counts. 20 FPS is the Max shutter speed in continuous. Not the minimum. You wont have many photos if you simply released that shutter button. Its very simple to do. Muscle memory. Train yourself not to hold it down so long or take it out of continuous. Not hard to do. You do not have to squeeze off 20fps in continuous. Simple not the case. You can squeeze off 1-20 FPS. Its not an entry level camera. Its Easy Peasy to squeeze 1 - 3 frames once you get used to doing it. Just because your auto speedometer has maximum of 180mph doesnt mean you have to hold your foot down. Same principle.


It is not about being able to "pulse" the pressing of the shutter button. Of course I can do that. For me it is about shooting birds in flight and other action situations with wildlife. I want a continuous burst of images without pulsing the shutter button, but I don't need 20fps for all scenarios. Some scenarios I would like to have 10fps while holding doing the shutter button continuously. This will allow a longer continuous set of images before I have to worry about hitting the buffer and my fps dropping to just about zero until the buffer dumps. Overall, it is always nice to have options.


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## rbr (Nov 17, 2021)

Gazwas said:


> Add to that better/more options for button customisation.
> 
> That big depth of filed preview button that I've never used is crying out to be used as a REC button in video mode.


To each his own. I love that DOF button on the R5 and one of the best features on the R5. I use it every time I pick up the camera and find it easier to use by leaps and bounds over having to press that damn button on the Canon DSLR's.


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## HikeBike (Nov 17, 2021)

stevelee said:


> Explain vehicle AF to me and why you would find it useful. Right off, I have never had trouble focusing on a car, so I can’t imagine what this might do.


It tracks a moving vehicle, allowing you to more easily compose the photograph. Great for motorsports photography.


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## Gazwas (Nov 17, 2021)

rbr said:


> To each his own. I love that DOF button on the R5 and one of the best features on the R5. I use it every time I pick up the camera and find it easier to use by leaps and bounds over having to press that damn button on the Canon DSLR's.


In stills that's ok but video its useless. However, thanks to @Juangrande its now a big, fat and much easier to find and press record button!


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## YuengLinger (Nov 17, 2021)

jam05 said:


> ...Train yourself not to hold it down so long or take it out of continuous. Not hard to do. You do not have to squeeze off 20fps in continuous. Simple not the case. You can squeeze off 1-20 FPS. Its not an entry level camera. Its Easy Peasy to squeeze 1 - 3 frames once you get used to doing it. Just because your auto speedometer has maximum of 180mph doesnt mean you have to hold your foot down. Same principle.


Not the "Same principle." If every time you touched your accelerator, NO MATTER HOW LIGHTLY, the car leapt to 180 mph, your analogy would be valid. Imagine trying to park the car!

I can't believe anybody who has had the R5 hasn't tried light, quick bursts in electronic shutter mode. But it sure takes a lot of practice, and being aware, while really focused on wildlife or athletes, of how many images are being collected in such a short time. And one must be very careful in all the "pulsing" or "feathering," or whatever technique is used, not to be jerking the camera. When an AF point is on one athlete in a cluster of athletes fighting for a soccer ball, or scrambling down the field for the ball, it would wonderful to not worry about it.

Of course 20 fps can be managed to an extent. But why imply that real, or skilled (or whatever the standard is) photographers shouldn't be asking for a slower option? It's a pretty common wish on this and other forums.


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## rbr (Nov 17, 2021)

I don't know how these things work, but I would think it could be possible for Canon to implement in a firmware upgrade the option for the R5 to just write every other frame while using the electronic shutter to bring it down to a more manageable 10 fps.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 17, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> I want a continuous burst of images without pulsing the shutter button, but I don't need 20fps for all scenarios. … Overall, it is always nice to have options.


Historically, Canon has reserved those options for the 1-series bodies that offer much more customization. My 1D X has H and L frame rates and I can customize those to be H=2-12 and L=1-11. IIRC, the 1D X III has H, M and L options. The R3 takes a step in that direction since it offers fixed choices of 30, 15 or 3 fps, but I expect that Canon will reserve full user-selectable frame rates for the R1.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Historically, Canon has reserved those options for the 1-series bodies that offer much more customization. My 1D X has H, M and L frame rates and I can customize those to be H=3-14, M=2-13 and L=1-12. The R3 takes a step in that direction since it offers fixed choices of 30, 15 or 3 fps, but I expect that Canon will reserve full user-selectable frame rates for the R1.


This suggests to me that Canon sees the ES frame-rate options as something advanced photographers (and not just heavy-fingered amateurs) would like to have. Maybe they will someday trickle down to less costly bodies.


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## BBarn (Nov 17, 2021)

For many uses, the frame rate issue can be addressed by switching shutter modes.


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## bytebuster (Nov 17, 2021)

I wish canon would fix playback of photos taken in portrait mode. I just don’t get why the image can’t be auto rotated during playback


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## YuengLinger (Nov 17, 2021)

bytebuster said:


> I wish canon would fix playback of photos taken in portrait mode. I just don’t get why the image can’t be auto rotated during playback


Unless I'm misunderstanding you, Canon cameras _have _had Auto-Rotate for years. For the R5, look on page 757 of the English version of the Advanced User Guide (which can be downloaded from Canon USA or Europe, etc.).

Or pick up your camera and go to the Set-up menu (the one with the little wrench icon), then look at the options under Tab 1.


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## Kit. (Nov 17, 2021)

bytebuster said:


> I wish canon would fix playback of photos taken in portrait mode. I just don’t get why the image can’t be auto rotated during playback


You mean, change the playback display based on the _camera orientation during playback_?

Otherwise, it's already there since at least 5D mark II.


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## bytebuster (Nov 17, 2021)

Kit. said:


> You mean, change the playback display based on the _camera orientation during playback_?
> 
> Otherwise, it's already there since at least 5D mark II.


Ugh. You are right. I had auto rotate on. As soon as I turned it off now, it works like I’d like it to. Where is that ‘embarrassed’ emoji


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## Exploreshootshare (Nov 17, 2021)

Kit. said:


> I'm afraid, you are asking for a _hardware_ update here.


Suggestions 2 & 3 should not require hardware updates. Others Companies and Canon have delivered such updates for other models. 
But I honestly don't know whether it is possible or not to improve the 8 FPS without full autofocus to 8FPS with full auto focus via firmware. That might require a hardware updaten...


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## Chig (Nov 17, 2021)

Great to see updates for the R5/R6 & 1DXiii , making them more competitive with Sony and Nikon's latest and greatest.
The R3 auto focus looks to be the best in the industry so if these updates bring the others up to a similar level it'll be very good for sales of the R5&6 especially.
One customisation option I'd like to see is for those of us that prefer back button focus to be able to set the the half press shutter to fire single shots and full press for high speed bursts.
It would be great to click away single shots for perched birds and if they take off to be able to shoot a fast burst


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## Ian K (Nov 17, 2021)

bytebuster said:


> I wish canon would fix playback of photos taken in portrait mode. I just don’t get why the image can’t be auto rotated during playback


There’s an option in the menus. You can choose if you rotate on camera and not of computer, vice Verda or both.


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## thegenuineparticle (Nov 17, 2021)

Can you say wow? What an insane list of updates for the R5. Looking forward to seeing what this does for my camera. I've been contemplating R3 or a second R5 for my wedding business as I no longer want to use the R as my second camera. If this update pans out I'll do the smart thing and go with 2x R5's. As much as I want an R3 the 24MP sensor is even less than my EOS RP, lol. I know the R3 is probably better than the R5 but... the R5 getting even better might be all I need right now.


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## StoicalEtcher (Nov 17, 2021)

Chig said:


> One customisation option I'd like to see is for those of us that prefer back button focus to be able to set the the half press shutter to fire single shots and full press for high speed bursts.
> It would be great to click away single shots for perched birds and if they take off to be able to shoot a fast burst


I'd definitely second you for that suggestion - would love it!


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## unfocused (Nov 17, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> ...For me it is about shooting birds in flight and other action situations with wildlife. I want a continuous burst of images without pulsing the shutter button, but I don't need 20fps for all scenarios. Some scenarios I would like to have 10fps while holding doing the shutter button continuously...



What's wrong with mechanical shutter?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 17, 2021)

unfocused said:


> What's wrong with mechanical shutter?


Birds will think it’s gunfire and fly directly away from you, and while people like BIF images, BBIF (bird butt in flight) images are far less popular?

Just an hypothesis…


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## unfocused (Nov 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Birds will think it’s gunfire and fly directly away from you, and while people like BIF images, BBIF (bird butt in flight) images are far less popular?
> 
> Just an hypothesis…


Ha! Yeah because the mechanical shutter of the R5 is Soooo much louder than the "silent mode" of any DSLR ever.


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## Kit. (Nov 17, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Suggestions 2 & 3 should not require hardware updates. Others Companies and Canon have delivered such updates for other models.


I don't see how an essentially 5D IV sensor could be capable of 4k60p throughput.


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## Otara (Nov 17, 2021)

unfocused said:


> What's wrong with mechanical shutter?



Not much, but it is distracting if you want silence as a default, just means more switching around as needed.

Im sure there are reasons why it hasnt happened and as always there are workarounds, but it makes life easier, particularly if you change modes back and forth.

The 7D2 has the option to set the actual shooting rate, but simply having the same options as for mechanical would probably cover most peoples issues, ie single, slow, H, H+. Its a consistency thing if nothing else.


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## slclick (Nov 17, 2021)

My 16 year old son saw me reading this and wondered about it since 'AF' means something comepeletely different to him.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 17, 2021)

slclick said:


> My 16 year old son saw me reading this and wondered about it since 'AF' means something comepeletely different to him.


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## TimKamppinen (Nov 17, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Not the "Same principle." If every time you touched your accelerator, NO MATTER HOW LIGHTLY, the car leapt to 180 mph, your analogy would be valid. Imagine trying to park the car!
> 
> I can't believe anybody who has had the R5 hasn't tried light, quick bursts in electronic shutter mode. But it sure takes a lot of practice, and being aware, while really focused on wildlife or athletes, of how many images are being collected in such a short time. And one must be very careful in all the "pulsing" or "feathering," or whatever technique is used, not to be jerking the camera. When an AF point is on one athlete in a cluster of athletes fighting for a soccer ball, or scrambling down the field for the ball, it would wonderful to not worry about it.
> 
> Of course 20 fps can be managed to an extent. But why imply that real, or skilled (or whatever the standard is) photographers shouldn't be asking for a slower option? It's a pretty common wish on this and other forums.



Also, "pulsing" the shutter or whatever doesn't really accomplish the same thing as a slower frame rate. It's really not a good substitution for certain situations with slower moving action/subjects. I'm a wedding photographer, people are moving or changing expressions as quickly sometimes but it's not like shooting a bird flapping its wings or fast moving sports. Even if I can control my press at 20fps to only get three shots, they are so close together that I usually will just end up with three nearly identical images. Imagine if something is happening at a wedding and I shoot through a moment for 1 second at 20fps... I go through the files and find that the 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th frames are all significantly different from each other. The 2nd shot is not significantly different than the 1st, and the 17th is not significantly different than the 16th, etc. Of those, let's say the 12th is the best image with the peak expression on my subject's face. Well, if I had been shooting at 5 fps I would have ended up with the same result (5 photos that were significantly different with one being the stand out) and not had to sort through the other 15 photos or let them take up space on my hard drive, etc. On the other hand, if I try to consciously tap the shutter 5 discrete times in the space of one second... well, that's impossible.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 18, 2021)

Regarding ES vs all the rest, apparently some participants in this thread are longing for a camera that is only silent.

Now as cool as it is to shoot at 20 fps and not put wear and tear on the shutter mechanism, and to be stealthy, the R5 was never marketed as a Global Shutter body. So, while I'd like to see some options for the ES bursts, I still consider the R5 one of the best cameras ever built, and, without any doubt, the best I've ever owned.

(And even if we did have ES burst options, we'd still have the pesky problems of rolling-shutter distortion, right?)

Back to the firmware improvements: Better AF? Thank you, Canon. Incredible already. Reducing the annoying jerking and blackening in low-light, contrasty scenes? Thanks again!

I bought a great camera, and Canon has continued to improve it. I can't say this has happened with too many other products I've bought. (Though I did bring my Odyssey in for some kind of service to the middle seats. Didn't get involved enough to understand what they were doing...)


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## thegenuineparticle (Nov 18, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Regarding ES vs all the rest, apparently some participants in this thread are longing for a camera that is only silent.
> 
> Now as cool as it is to shoot at 20 fps and not put wear and tear on the shutter mechanism, and to be stealthy, the R5 was never marketed as a Global Shutter body. So, while I'd like to see some options for the ES bursts, I still consider the R5 one of the best cameras ever built, and, without any doubt, the best I've ever owned.
> 
> ...


So true! Remember as well that Canon is adding these features and creating parity with their new and more expensive R3. The only thing that bothers me about the R5 is the video overheating in 4k... I'm not sure I 100% believe that. But hey, it could be true I just don't understand why the EOS R can shoot 4k forever but the R5 can't. I'm not complaining I'm fine with it because it works fine for me right now. I have had the "overheat" indicator flashing a couple of times, it's a little distressing but it never went to full shutdown... No way would I buy an R5c though, it's a dumb idea. Why would any video person get the R5c over the C70?? The C70 is already a great value. No matter what they do to the R5c it's never gonna have the features the C70 has. C70 is straight up awesome, while an R5c is just an empty shell for 8k as far as video goes.


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## Otara (Nov 18, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Regarding ES vs all the rest, apparently some participants in this thread are longing for a camera that is only silent.
> 
> Now as cool as it is to shoot at 20 fps and not put wear and tear on the shutter mechanism, and to be stealthy, the R5 was never marketed as a Global Shutter body. So, while I'd like to see some options for the ES bursts, I still consider the R5 one of the best cameras ever built, and, without any doubt, the best I've ever owned.
> 
> (And even if we did have ES burst options, we'd still have the pesky problems of rolling-shutter distortion, right?)


 Nice to have rather than longing for me. Coming from the R where it did work as discussed, it was just a surprise to find the more expensive version without it.


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## digigal (Nov 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Not enough people are requesting the option yet. Exactly what advantage is gained by lower FPS using electronic shutter? I have yet to encounter a situation that I need it.


Useful for photographing wildlife where you don't spook them with a noisey shutter but don't have to take 20 shots just to have a the noise free electronic shutter. 5-10-20 fps options would be ideal and would cover all bases. Also would be helpful for wedding photogs in a church who wanted a silent shutter but didn't need 20 fps of the ring ceremony LOL!
Catherine


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## vladk (Nov 18, 2021)

This is all good, but I want:
- unlimited video recording times;
- customization of Q and/or M-Fn menus, there are some settings that I would like to see there.


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## digigal (Nov 18, 2021)

unfocused said:


> What's wrong with mechanical shutter?


With some birds and wildlife situations you want a silent shutter which only comes with the 20 fps option


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## TimKamppinen (Nov 18, 2021)

vladk said:


> This is all good, but I want:
> - unlimited video recording times;
> - customization of Q and/or M-Fn menus, there are some settings that I would like to see there.


Yeah, there are only two or three things on the Q menu that I actually use somewhat regularly. It’s crazy that you can’t customize it, even Nikon let’s you do that with their i-menu.


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## jdavidse (Nov 18, 2021)

Shooting w/ electronic shutter in a church is a really bad idea due to banding.


digigal said:


> Useful for photographing wildlife where you don't spook them with a noisey shutter but don't have to take 20 shots just to have a the noise free electronic shutter. 5-10-20 fps options would be ideal and would cover all bases. Also would be helpful for wedding photogs in a church who wanted a silent shutter but didn't need 20 fps of the ring ceremony LOL!
> Catherine


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## unfocused (Nov 18, 2021)

digigal said:


> With some birds and wildlife situations you want a silent shutter which only comes with the 20 fps option


Well yes, but I was responding to someone who specifically mentioned birds in flight. I have never been in a situation where I am shooting birds in flight, where a silent shutter would make any difference. In fact I can't think of a case where I've ever seen a bird in flight react to a shutter, even the booming shutter of a 1D body. Large birds like Cranes and Herons make so much noise that the sound of an electronic shutter is not going to even be heard over the sounds of their wings beating. I'm always shocked by just how loud a swan's wings are when they take off. 

I've had hawks take flight while I'm trying to photograph them, but it's seldom the shutter sound that they react to. It's usually just the fact that you've stopped to look at them and point a big lens in their direction. Once in flight, I've never had one react to the shutter. 

For a perched bird, yes a silent shutter could be useful, but in that case, it's a lot easier to pump the shutter button. 

Plus, it's as though we've totally lost all the skills that we learned with DSLRs. The silent mode of any DSLR is way louder than the mechanical shutter of a mirrorless.

Look, I'm not saying a silent shutter with more than one choice for fps wouldn't be nice, but I also don't see it as an insurmountable problem.


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## Chris Charles (Nov 18, 2021)

Next update I hope for focus range in the menu rather than on the lens switch. 
It would be useful for camera trap use for fast reaction to trigger. Eg only focus within the 1.2 to 1.4m range
Currently Eye AF looks at all the 3D lens coverage for an eye which slows it down.


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## Otara (Nov 18, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Look, I'm not saying a silent shutter with more than one choice for fps wouldn't be nice, but I also don't see it as an insurmountable problem.



Not so much nice as a fairly standard feature, so its omission is likely to be due to non-trivial reasons in my view. We all have pet peeves, for some it will be vehicle tracking, for others this.

I mean Ive seen 'ack' and 'dang' in this thread, seems like hardly the stuff of hysteria. One was in all caps I guess.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 18, 2021)

Otara said:


> Not so much nice as a fairly standard feature, so its omission is likely to be due to non-trivial reasons in my view.


The R3 can shoot at 3, 15 or 30 fps with electronic shutter. More likely, Canon simply chose not to include the feature. Like AF point-linked spot metering, it’s a way for them to differentiate between lines.


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## Otara (Nov 18, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> The R3 can shoot at 3, 15 or 30 fps with electronic shutter. More likely, Canon simply chose not to include the feature. Like AF point-linked spot metering, it’s a way for them to differentiate between lines.


 
But they put it in the R, then released it without on the R5 when the R3 wasn’t out yet. Not a very clear differentiation at this stage, have to wait and see I guess.

Doesn’t really change things much either way, still don’t have it after all.


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## koenkooi (Nov 18, 2021)

thegenuineparticle said:


> So true! Remember as well that Canon is adding these features and creating parity with their new and more expensive R3. The only thing that bothers me about the R5 is the video overheating in 4k... I'm not sure I 100% believe that. But hey, it could be true I just don't understand why the EOS R can shoot 4k forever but the R5 can't.[..]


The line-skipped 4k of the R5, which is about the same quality as the 4k of the R won't overheat. Only the 'HQ' and 100+ fps modes for 4k overheat, and all 8k modes. But if you want R-ish quality 4k, it can do that all day long, with restarts after every 29:59 minutes


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## lucuias (Nov 18, 2021)

Please give R6 Dual Recording HDMI and over the card at the same time.


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## Fischer (Nov 18, 2021)

stevelee said:


> Explain vehicle AF to me and why you would find it useful. Right off, I have never had trouble focusing on a car, so I can’t imagine what this might do.


I take bike pictures, and its much more difficult than cars because there are many cyclists to choose from - often overlapping each other - and a much more diverse and messy backdrop.


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## Gazwas (Nov 18, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> The line-skipped 4k of the R5, which is about the same quality as the 4k of the R won't overheat. Only the 'HQ' and 100+ fps modes for 4k overheat, and all 8k modes. But if you want R-ish quality 4k, it can do that all day long, with restarts after every 29:59 minutes


R5 cropped (s35) 4K is oversampled 5.6K and does not overheat. I use it all the time on my R5 and looks amazing.


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 18, 2021)

Canon, please make these change in the firmware of both the R5 and R6:

VideoTimeLimit = Off
Enable VideoZebraStripes = On
EnableUsableWBFnction = On
FakeOverheatTimer = Off
CrippleHammerFunctions = Off

That will be a good start! 
Yes, it's a joke...


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## risto0 (Nov 18, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Aren't you still able to shoot pictures despite the download process?
> 
> At least when it comes to remote shooting via CCAPI, you can live-view and shoot new pictures and download older pictures in parallel.


I don't know, i never shoot pics while downloading pictures from camera to pc. I mostly shoot landscapes and don't do studio work. But maybe that is the reason why everyting is turned on when downloading images via cable - a useful function for studio work.


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## tbgtomcom (Nov 18, 2021)

If they can throw in the elimination of the 30 minute recording limit then I'd be on cloud 9.


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## Mikehit (Nov 18, 2021)

stevelee said:


> Explain vehicle AF to me and why you would find it useful. Right off, I have never had trouble focusing on a car, so I can’t imagine what this might do.


It depends on how it works. On the Olympus system, it first identifies the shape of the vehicle, then while still tracking and taking pictures it works out where the windscreen is focusses on that (ie focussing towards the driver) - rather like focussing on the eyes of a person or animal. With motorbikes it ends up focussing on the motorcyclist's head. 
How far the Canon system will go we will wait and see.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 18, 2021)

Otara said:


> But they put it in the R, then released it without on the R5 when the R3 wasn’t out yet. Not a very clear differentiation at this stage, have to wait and see I guess.
> 
> Doesn’t really change things much either way, still don’t have it after all.


Ok, you've said this several times, that the R could choose how fast or how many shots to burst in Electronic Shutter mode (Silent Shooting). I had the R and never knew about this, and I'm looking at the Advanced User Guide, as well as several Canon knowledge base articles.

The only spec I'm finding is in the Advanced User Guide, English, page 145: "With silent shooting...continuous shooting speed will be *max. approx. 5.0 shots/sec.*" A bit further on, page 151, we are told that Silent Shooting is available in Single Shot or High Speed (or using the 2 sec. or 10 sec timer). No other options. On the R5, of course, we can also use Single Shot.

I simply can't find anything confirming what you've said. Could you please provide a link, or could somebody else confirm? Thanks!


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 18, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Ok, you've said this several times, that the R could choose how fast or how many shots to burst in Electronic Shutter mode (Silent Shooting). I had the R and never knew about this, and I'm looking at the Advanced User Guide, as well as several Canon knowledge base articles.
> 
> The only spec I'm finding is in the Advanced User Guide, English, page 145: "With silent shooting...continuous shooting speed will be *max. approx. 5.0 shots/sec.*" A bit further on, page 151, we are told that Silent Shooting is available in Single Shot or High Speed (or using the 2 sec. or 10 sec timer). No other options. On the R5, of course, we can also use Single Shot.
> 
> I simply can't find anything confirming what you've said. Could you please provide a link, or could somebody else confirm? Thanks!


Concur. I see no evidence of it. There’s a low speed setting for the mechanical shutter on the R.


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## Otara (Nov 18, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Ok, you've said this several times, that the R could choose how fast or how many shots to burst in Electronic Shutter mode (Silent Shooting). I had the R and never knew about this, and I'm looking at the Advanced User Guide, as well as several Canon knowledge base articles.
> 
> The only spec I'm finding is in the Advanced User Guide, English, page 145: "With silent shooting...continuous shooting speed will be *max. approx. 5.0 shots/sec.*" A bit further on, page 151, we are told that Silent Shooting is available in Single Shot or High Speed (or using the 2 sec. or 10 sec timer). No other options. On the R5, of course, we can also use Single Shot.
> 
> I simply can't find anything confirming what you've said. Could you please provide a link, or could somebody else confirm? Thanks!



You're quite right. I even looked on my R/R5 before I said it, as I knew this is the kind of thing I can get wrong. Turns out I can still get it wrong even with that, although I'm puzzled as to how I managed it - I even have this embarrassing memory of triumph as I thought I'd confirmed it. Sorry all, looks like I went down a rabbit hole.

I guess this increases the likelihood its a demarcation choice as Neuro said.


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## RayValdez360 (Nov 19, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> The line-skipped 4k of the R5, which is about the same quality as the 4k of the R won't overheat. Only the 'HQ' and 100+ fps modes for 4k overheat, and all 8k modes. But if you want R-ish quality 4k, it can do that all day long, with restarts after every 29:59 minutes


4k 60 overheats


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## unfocused (Nov 19, 2021)

Otara said:


> You're quite right. I even looked on my R/R5 before I said it, as I knew this is the kind of thing I can get wrong. Turns out I can still get it wrong even with that, although I'm puzzled as to how I managed it - I even have this embarrassing memory of triumph as I thought I'd confirmed it. Sorry all, looks like I went down a rabbit hole.
> 
> I guess this increases the likelihood its a demarcation choice as Neuro said.


Don't you know the first rule of forum discussions? _Never admit a mistake, just double down and change the subject. _Seriously, it is nice to see someone on this forum actually admit they were mistaken.


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## Besisika (Nov 19, 2021)

stevelee said:


> Explain vehicle AF to me and why you would find it useful. Right off, I have never had trouble focusing on a car, so I can’t imagine what this might do.


Daylight panning is somewhere around 1/40th sec, F22, while midnight panning in the city is around 1/20th sec, F1.2. Believe me, I take any help (to focus) they can give at midnight. Just for fun, go outside tomorrow at midnight and shoot bikes on the street. This is particularly difficult, especially when you choose your spot for the sake of composition, and not amount of street light. Most often, the best spot, such as round the corner, are the darkest.


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## Joules (Nov 19, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> 4k 60 overheats


But the point you're replying to was that Canon did not cripple the R5 by removing video features already found in the R.

The R does not overheat in 4K, and neither does the R5, if you use the same type of 4K as the R.

4K HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, 8K are the modes which may cause overheating, and none of them are available on the R.


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 19, 2021)

Vehicle AF? An average car is around 5m (15 feet) long, Isn't that like like Side-of-a-Barn AF??? 

I'm waiting for Canon to add *Snail AF*. They're very hard to track, especially when doing SIF (snail-in-flight) photos, when you toss them over the fence into your neighbour's yard. Being round and heavy, they fly like stones though the air, very fast! Ever wondered why you never see photos of airborne molluscs? Simple answer, no Snail AF! 

*Brick Wall AF* would be very useful too, since they're one of the most often photographed subjects on some forums, and there are many photo enthusiasts that photograph nothing else. Understandably, the photos in this genre tell a powerful story, the pathos they convey is emotionally moving, and the cutting social commentary they provide is incomparable! But this magic only happens when the photographer can achieve a very precise focus, it's a critical and integral element of the art form. 

(tongue-in-cheek for the overly serious types!)


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## Canonite (Nov 19, 2021)

I have been using Canon camera's for a very long time, and I can't believe the people that are whining away like little kids.
Wish they did this and wish they did that... come on kids get a life!

Never has Canon been so generous in keeping the firmware updates going for the R5 and R6 and yet you people are never happy.
You bought a camera with certain options, and when they give you more or try to better the system for FREE, all I see is people complaining.

I have used the 1D series of camera's for many many years going through 5 pro bodies Mark II, Mark III (the big let down) the Mark IV the IDx and the 1Dx II now a R5. And NEVER EVER did Canon support a product like they are with the R5 and R6. So stop you're whining or buy another product as I for one think Canon is doing a great job updating the R5 and R6

Is it perfect? maybe not but we all bought a camera knowing what the specs were and now they are improving that camera. So be appreciative!


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## kaihp (Nov 19, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> Vehicle AF? An average car is around 5m (15 feet) long, Isn't that like like Side-of-a-Barn AF???


I can tell you from experience that motorcycle racing can be tough on the AF system.


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 19, 2021)

Canonite said:


> I have been using Canon camera's for a very long time, and I can't believe the people that are whining away like little kids.
> Wish they did this and wish they did that... come on kids get a life!
> 
> Never has Canon been so generous in keeping the firmware updates going for the R5 and R6 and yet you people are never happy.
> ...


Well, to keep things in perspective, if you've been using the top tiers of the Canon brand, there isn't much to complain about! Most of of 'whining' as you put it is people raising the issue about the questionable and ill-considered "cripple hammer" market segmentation strategy of withholding certain functions that cost little to nothing to include, which runs counter to the Sony strategy of "add it if we've got it" approach to functions and tech.

The philosophical question I would pose is this. If a company, either through oversight, neglect, or a rush to market, leaves out functions that would normally be included, or would be expected to be included, then adds them at a later date in firmware updates, is that generosity, or retrospective patch up? This raises the next question, if those functions that are added in firmware can be implemented that way, what was the rationale for omitting them in the first place?

Sure, some people in forums here and elsewhere like to indulge in compiling untenable utopian camera spec wish lists which I've previously mocked as "cargo cult lists", but that's not what's happening here. This is more like a list of what's been left out for no good reason, or hasn't been fixed for years. Things like absolutely clumsy video WB setting, 30 min record limits, slower burst rates, etc.

Anyone with realistic expectations is aware that probably most mid-tier cameras and upwards are 'good enough' these days, and moving from one brand to another just swaps one set of compromises for another, and when dealing with Canon's compromises, some are understandable, but some defy reason. We become aware of what falls into which category when we move beyond being ignorant grateful consumers to engage in critical thinking, and asking why. I think there's a lot of constructive 'asking why' going on here in my opinion...


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 19, 2021)

kaihp said:


> I can tell you from experience that motorcycle racing can be tough on the AF system.


I was joking in case that didn't come across! Up to a point it's reasonable to have the camera assist with AF on certain hard-to-track subjects, but if it goes the direction of a lot of other silly marketing-driven spec war p*ssing contests we've seen in the camera world, we might start seeing the inclusion of AF for the stupidest things! Wouldn't be surprised if we see Food AF next! 

Can totally appreciate that a motorcycle is much smaller than a car, and not much bigger than a person, and I'd imagine, if off-road, move much less predictably and change directions more readily than cars would.


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## AlanF (Nov 19, 2021)

I would like BS detection that would automatically direct those posts to a junk folder.


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## kaihp (Nov 19, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> I was joking in case that didn't come across! Up to a point it's reasonable to have the camera assist with AF on certain hard-to-track subjects, but if it goes the direction of a lot of other silly marketing-driven spec war p*ssing contests we've seen in the camera world, we might start seeing the inclusion of AF for the stupidest things! Wouldn't be surprised if we see Food AF next!
> 
> Can totally appreciate that a motorcycle is much smaller than a car, and not much bigger than a person, and I'd imagine, if off-road, move much less predictably and change directions more readily than cars would.


Oh I got your joke. I should have left that "tongue-in-cheek" comment at the bottom in. Just wanted to point out that cars & bikes are different, and car most likely easier (from an overall perspective, but probably not when you want to focus on the helment inside the cage)


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 19, 2021)

AlanF said:


> I would like BS detection that would automatically direct those posts to a junk folder.


That's not a firmware function, but a wetware function, otherwise known as the human brain, the 1.3-1.4 kg mass of approximately 86 billion odd neurons or thereabouts.  If trained in critical thinking, and used for that purpose it serves that function well! It's not only able to detect BS, but also serve as a very advanced system for acquiring a subject with a camera, and tracking it. Apparently it's an old evolutionary carry over from when humans had to hunt for their food. From what I've read, historically, back in the olden days, before eye AF, people used those photo-sensitive outgrowths from their brain, commonly referred to as 'eyes', to aim focus on their subjects. 

...but admittedly technology makes things easier and they probably did less impressive BIF photos way back then!


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 19, 2021)

kaihp said:


> Oh I got your joke. I should have left that "tongue-in-cheek" comment at the bottom in. Just wanted to point out that cars & bikes are different, and car most likely easier (from an overall perspective, but probably not when you want to focus on the helmet inside the cage)


How in the world do you get shots inside the cage of the car? Guessing its from the small space of open side windows, rather than through the windscreen by cutting through the glare and reflection with a CP filter?


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## Kit. (Nov 19, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> That's not a firmware function, but a wetware function, otherwise known as the human brain, the 1.3-1.4 kg mass of approximately 86 billion odd neurons or thereabouts.


Doesn't work well at 20 PPS.


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 19, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Doesn't work well at 20 PPS.


Probably more accurate to say "doesn't work _AS _well at 20FPS"
To keep things in perspective, National Geographic first started in 1888, and they've been photographing wildlife since it was first possible to photograph wildlife, right up to the present day. Computer asssitance in the form of human eye AF in cameras is fairly recent (first introduced by Sony in 2013?), animal AF even more recent, and it just makes it easier for people with less skill, or allows skilled people to take more technically challenging shots!
Hence my qualifier in the last sentence!


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## rbielefeld (Nov 19, 2021)

unfocused said:


> What's wrong with mechanical shutter?


When I am 15 feet away from a belted kingfisher, sitting in my blind, the mechanical shutter makes too much noise. Also, many times the R5 will not maintain 12fps in mechanical shutter even when all the parameters are met to get 12fps. And I want 12fps with the R5 in mechanical shutter, because the VF behavior is such that tracking fast subjects is more difficult when shooting slower fps than the maximum So, in the end, what is wrong with having options for slower fps in ES?


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## AlanF (Nov 19, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> That's not a firmware function, but a wetware function, otherwise known as the human brain, the 1.3-1.4 kg mass of approximately 86 billion odd neurons or thereabouts.  If trained in critical thinking, and used for that purpose it serves that function well! It's not only able to detect BS, but also serve as a very advanced system for acquiring a subject with a camera, and tracking it. Apparently it's an old evolutionary carry over from when humans had to hunt for their food. From what I've read, historically, back in the olden days, before eye AF, people used those photo-sensitive outgrowths from their brain, commonly referred to as 'eyes', to aim focus on their subjects.
> 
> ...but admittedly technology makes things easier and they probably did less impressive BIF photos way back then!


Your neurons might be odd but I prefer normal ones.


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## AlanF (Nov 19, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> Probably more accurate to say "doesn't work _AS _well at 20FPS"
> To keep things in perspective, National Geographic first started in 1888, and they've been photographing wildlife since it was first possible to photograph wildlife, right up to the present day. Computer asssitance in the form of human eye AF in cameras is fairly recent (first introduced by Sony in 2013?), animal AF even more recent, and it just makes it easier for people with less skill, or allows skilled people to take more technically challenging shots!
> Hence my qualifier in the last sentence!


Your eyes aren't working well: he wrote 20 PPS, not FPS. It was probably at 20 pages per second = a joke.


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## unfocused (Nov 19, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> When I am 15 feet away from a belted kingfisher, sitting in my blind, the mechanical shutter makes too much noise. Also, many times the R5 will not maintain 12fps in mechanical shutter even when all the parameters are met to get 12fps. And I want 12fps with the R5 in mechanical shutter, because the VF behavior is such that tracking fast subjects is more difficult when shooting slower fps than the maximum So, in the end, what is wrong with having options for slower fps in ES?
> View attachment 201250
> View attachment 201251


Okay, makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Kind of jealous of anyone who has access to Kingfishers. Hard to come by around here, especially hard to get within 15 ft. of one.


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## paul (Nov 19, 2021)

TimKamppinen said:


> Spot metering tied to focus point would be a godsend for shooting a subject in front of a bright background with flash. Think of a portrait at sunset. All you see currently through the EVF is a silhouette because the auto-exposed preview when using flash just balances for the overall scene. Impossible to see your subject’s expression. It’s even more annoying in a candid situation where you need to time your shots like reception toasts in front of a bright window. You can use spot metering but it only helps if you compose with the subject dead center of the frame.


I thought I was the only one with this problem, most people don't even seem to understand this one! This was my workaround with Sony A9, would be even better if you could just lock your EVF exposure. "Exposure simulation off lock"


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 20, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Your eyes aren't working well: he wrote 20 PPS, not FPS. It was probably at 20 pages per second = a joke.


Unfortunately, that detail was lost on me, looked like a typo, and jokes are never funny when you have to explain them. Oh well...


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## Ozarker (Nov 20, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> Vehicle AF? An average car is around 5m (15 feet) long, Isn't that like like Side-of-a-Barn AF???
> 
> I'm waiting for Canon to add *Snail AF*. They're very hard to track, especially when doing SIF (snail-in-flight) photos, when you toss them over the fence into your neighbour's yard. Being round and heavy, they fly like stones though the air, very fast! Ever wondered why you never see photos of airborne molluscs? Simple answer, no Snail AF!
> 
> ...


I just blame crappy distortion on the brick maker and brick layer.

On the subject of specialized AF, I'd imagine that purchasers of the new VR lens will have the option of "unlocking" some taboo modes.


----------



## jam05 (Nov 20, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I just blame crappy distortion on the brick maker and brick layer.
> 
> On the subject of specialized AF, I'd imagine that purchasers of the new VR lens will have the option of "unlocking" some taboo modes.





LogicExtremist said:


> Vehicle AF? An average car is around 5m (15 feet) long, Isn't that like like Side-of-a-Barn AF???
> 
> I'm waiting for Canon to add *Snail AF*. They're very hard to track, especially when doing SIF (snail-in-flight) photos, when you toss them over the fence into your neighbour's yard. Being round and heavy, they fly like stones though the air, very fast! Ever wondered why you never see photos of airborne molluscs? Simple answer, no Snail AF!
> 
> ...


Vehicle = race car in a in a race, motorcycle etc


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## mariosk1gr (Nov 20, 2021)

So welcome the new firmware updates! Very happy, cant wait! The only complaint for me is the 30min limit.


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## AlanF (Nov 20, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> Unfortunately, that detail was lost on me, looked like a typo, and jokes are never funny when you have to explain them. Oh well...


Did he need to put in a smiley to show he was making a joke?


----------



## YuengLinger (Nov 20, 2021)

paul said:


> I thought I was the only one with this problem, most people don't even seem to understand this one! This was my workaround with Sony A9, would be even better if you could just lock your EVF exposure. "Exposure simulation off lock"


I think you can do exactly that. In addition to AE Lock, the R5 and many older dSLR's offer "AE Lock with Hold." You don't have to keep mashing AE Lock while composing. VERY handy when using Av.

You can access the option under the camera's button customization menu. The symbol is *H. It is mentioned VERY briefly in the EOS R5 AUG on page 826. Details are offered by Canon at this link:



Canon Knowledge Base - AE Lock with Hold



Personally, I've transitioned to Manual mode for shooting situations where I need to hold Exposure (say when background light changes, but subject's lighting changes very little), but I still like Av for situations where my lighting on the _subject _changes rapidly. I mostly use Spot Metering, but the apparent exposure in the EVF plus the Histogram in the EVF have removed all the guess work that sometimes failed me on the 5DIV.


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## usern4cr (Nov 20, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> I think you can do exactly that. In addition to AE Lock, the R5 and many older dSLR's offer "AE Lock with Hold." You don't have to keep mashing AE Lock while composing. VERY handy when using Av.
> 
> You can access the option under the camera's button customization menu. The symbol is *H. It is mentioned VERY briefly in the EOS R5 AUG on page 826. Details are offered by Canon at this link:
> 
> ...


Thanks, YeungLinger, for this post! I wasn't aware of the "Hold" option in Exposure lock. It sounds perfect for my use and I'll start using it right away.

I've updated my buttons to this, and really like the feel of it:
AF-ON button -> metering & AF start (I have single spot metering selected for this)
* button -> eye detection AF. Note: I like this function closer to the AF-ON button (spot AF) to choose between the two frequently
AF point button -> (toggle) AE Lock & hold (the metering lock stays locked until toggled off here or camera turned off - yay!)
Shutter button -> half press metering start


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## gdanmitchell (Nov 20, 2021)

With vehicle AF joining animal AF and face AF and various kinds of tracking...

... I just want to know what happens when we try to photograph a moving car with a person and a pet inside.


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## Kit. (Nov 20, 2021)

gdanmitchell said:


> With vehicle AF joining animal AF and face AF and various kinds of tracking...
> 
> ... I just want to know what happens when we try to photograph a moving car with a person and a pet inside.


You can select in the camera menu what to prefer to focus on.


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## Daniel_r (Nov 20, 2021)

I would Love to see:
1. A 5k or 6k Recording to have some reserve for zoom in post production. 
2. option to switch off Screen proximity sensor in review mode 
3. a direct contact to canon for wish list


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## paul (Nov 20, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> I think you can do exactly that. In addition to AE Lock, the R5 and many older dSLR's offer "AE Lock with Hold." You don't have to keep mashing AE Lock while composing. VERY handy when using Av.
> 
> You can access the option under the camera's button customization menu. The symbol is *H. It is mentioned VERY briefly in the EOS R5 AUG on page 826. Details are offered by Canon at this link:
> 
> ...


I wasn't talking about actual exposure lock, but about locking the brightness of the EVF when in exposure simulation off mode..By the way, I use *H too. It's a pity it doesn't work in conjunction with AE lock with the shutterbutton though.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 20, 2021)

paul said:


> I wasn't talking about actual exposure lock, but about locking the brightness of the EVF when in exposure simulation off mode..By the way, I use *H too. It's a pity it doesn't work in conjunction with AE lock with the shutterbutton though.


Sorry, paul, but I don't understand what you mean. If Exposure Simulation is OFF, it's just allowing us to see what we are shooting, not know anything about our exposure settings...You can turn down the brightness to an extent, but when Exp Sim is OFF, the EVF is just there to let you see. And the Histogram goes away too. You have to determine proper exposure through some other means, such as the meter gauge on the bottom of the EVF, or with a light meter.

However, Evaluative Metering seems to maintain a steady EVF brightness when Exp Sim is OFF. Other metering modes, such as Spot, result in significant changes in the brightness of the EVF display.


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## paul (Nov 20, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Sorry, paul, but I don't understand what you mean. If Exposure Simulation is OFF, it's just allowing us to see what we are shooting, not know anything about our exposure settings...You can turn down the brightness to an extent, but when Exp Sim is OFF, the EVF is just there to let you see. And the Histogram goes away too. You have to determine proper exposure through some other means, such as the meter gauge on the bottom of the EVF, or with a light meter.
> 
> However, Evaluative Metering seems to maintain a steady EVF brightness when Exp Sim is OFF. Other metering modes, such as Spot, result in significant changes in the brightness of the EVF display.


Well, imagine you're in a room with dark walls, and a big window with a beautiful view. Outside the sun is shining. You wan't to take a portrait with an off cameraflash of a person in front of the window, with the view in the background, and expose for the sunny daylight outside.Let's say 250, f8, 100 iso. You won't see the face in the EVF, just a silhouet. That is the problem... There really is no way around it at this moment. I've worked with Sony A9 (and II) for 3 years and used spot metering for this situation. But with Canon you can't move the spot metering, so you're model is stuck in the middle of the frame( if you wan't to see something).


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## justaCanonuser (Nov 20, 2021)

risto0 said:


> still no focus point based spot exposure measuring for R5


Yeah, Nikon offers focus based spot metering also in prosumer level cameras, not only in the flagship D(X) (X = 4, 5, 6...) sort of cameras. This is one of the few things that really annoy me about Canon's policy since many years.


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## Kit. (Nov 20, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Sorry, paul, but I don't understand what you mean. If Exposure Simulation is OFF, it's just allowing us to see what we are shooting, not know anything about our exposure settings...


The problem is that in manual mode with exposure simulation off, the camera's viewfinder just ignores the *H command, so you cannot freeze the EVF gain level and recompose.

Probably a bug.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 20, 2021)

Kit. said:


> The problem is that in manual mode with exposure simulation off, the camera's viewfinder just ignores the *H command, so you cannot freeze the EVF gain level and recompose.
> 
> Probably a bug.


I believe *H is for Av mode.

Are we just talking about the brightness of the EVF? In that case, mine works fine in *Evaluative*, but in the other exposure modes, it is not pleasant because it gets brighter and dimmer. Very distracting.


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## shire_guy (Nov 20, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> I think you can do exactly that. In addition to AE Lock, the R5 and many older dSLR's offer "AE Lock with Hold." You don't have to keep mashing AE Lock while composing. VERY handy when using Av.
> 
> You can access the option under the camera's button customization menu. The symbol is *H. It is mentioned VERY briefly in the EOS R5 AUG on page 826. Details are offered by Canon at this link:
> 
> ...


What a gem of a tip. I often use AE Lock in Av mode but it's frustration when I accidentally enable it and struggle to turn it off or have to re engage it for multiple shots. "AE Lock with Hold" is exactly what I wanted but never know it was there.

Thank you YuengLinger


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## Kit. (Nov 20, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Are we just talking about the brightness of the EVF?


Yes, in this particular case. With the flash as the main source of light for the subject and with naturally Sunny-16 background, or something like that.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 21, 2021)

paul said:


> Well, imagine you're in a room with dark walls, and a big window with a beautiful view. Outside the sun is shining. You wan't to take a portrait with an off cameraflash of a person in front of the window, with the view in the background, and expose for the sunny daylight outside.Let's say 250, f8, 100 iso. You won't see the face in the EVF, just a silhouet. That is the problem... There really is no way around it at this moment. I've worked with Sony A9 (and II) for 3 years and used spot metering for this situation. But with Canon you can't move the spot metering, so you're model is stuck in the middle of the frame( if you wan't to see something).



I think I get what you are saying. You want to be able to use Exposure Simulation with flash.

If this is the case, I stumbled on a fairly simple way to do it--sort of.

If you have a Speedlite on-camera and you are in a dimly lit room, have Exp Sim enabled.

Then press the Multi-function button.

Now press the Set button, regardless of which option is selected after pressing Multi-function button.

Voila, you have Exposure Simulation; however, as soon as I half press the shutter button, I lose that simulation.

So maybe this _is_ a bug?

I remember another thread here about this, which involved using the DoF button _after it had been assigned as something else_. And then I had to double-press the DoF button. Plus DoF is more awkward for me than the SET button. It also does not maintain the Simulation when the shutter button is pressed.

Here's that thread: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...avior-with-and-without-hotshoe-trigger.39232/


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## YuengLinger (Nov 21, 2021)

paul said:


> Well, imagine you're in a room with dark walls, and a big window with a beautiful view. Outside the sun is shining. You wan't to take a portrait with an off cameraflash of a person in front of the window, with the view in the background, and expose for the sunny daylight outside.Let's say 250, f8, 100 iso. You won't see the face in the EVF, just a silhouet. That is the problem... There really is no way around it at this moment. I've worked with Sony A9 (and II) for 3 years and used spot metering for this situation. But with Canon you can't move the spot metering, so you're model is stuck in the middle of the frame( if you wan't to see something).


OK, I've reread your reply. I'm sorry I was slow on the uptake. You want to be able to BRIGHTEN the EVF as needed when using OFF camera strobe so you can compose with strong backlight--but NOT affect the exposure settings.

Now I get it. (Right?) So then how can this be done? When I use my strobes I'm in a more or less uniformly lit studio space.

When I do use flash with a bright background, for fill, I've been doing it the old fashioned way of turning off the darn Speedlite or Commander to get the proper background exposure.

Yes, it would be nice to have a better way! Anybody?

(Btw, the above reply does work in a dimly lit room to show how underexposed I am for the background with ON camera flash. Oy.)

Edit: I'm going out _tomorrow_ with my Buff Einsteins and Cyber Commander with strong backlight. Thanks for the prod!


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 21, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I just blame crappy distortion on the brick maker and brick layer.
> 
> On the subject of specialized AF, I'd imagine that purchasers of the new VR lens will have the option of "unlocking" some taboo modes.


Yes, I can imagine the new Canon VR lens will be an absolute hit in the p*rn industry!


AlanF said:


> Did he need to put in a smiley to show he was making a joke?


Hi Alan, to answer your question, yes, sometimes I feel I do need to state the obvious and put the smiley there . You'd be surprised how people can take the most tongue-in-cheek comment seriously, or take a harmless comment as a personal insult on forums! I figure if people don't mistakenly react with big long comments to dispute what I said in jest, or to defend themselves against an accusation that was never made, then it saves people time!

Curious to ask why you're asking? You can make this thread about me, but I don't think a meta-analysis of my comments would really be of interest to anyone!


----------



## LogicExtremist (Nov 21, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I just blame crappy distortion on the brick maker and brick layer.
> 
> On the subject of specialized AF, I'd imagine that purchasers of the new VR lens will have the option of "unlocking" some taboo modes.


Yes, I can imagine the new Canon VR lens will be an absolute hit in the p*rn industry!


----------



## AlanF (Nov 21, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> Hi Alan, to answer your question, yes, sometimes I feel I do need to state the obvious and put the smiley there . You'd be surprised how people can take the most tongue-in-cheek comment seriously, or take a harmless comment as a personal insult on forums! I figure if people don't mistakenly react with big long comments to dispute what I said in jest, or to defend themselves against an accusation that was never made, then it saves people time!
> 
> Curious to ask why you're asking? You can make this thread about me, but I don't think a meta-analysis of my comments would really be of interest to anyone!


It was a rhetorical question. You mistakenly corrected someone’s English because you misunderstood he was making a joke, and then made in a reply to me, when I explained it to you, that a joke was not amusing if it had to be explained. Don’t think it was a meta-analysis, it was a response to your comment to me.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 21, 2021)

paul said:


> Well, imagine you're in a room with dark walls, and a big window with a beautiful view. Outside the sun is shining. You wan't to take a portrait with an off cameraflash of a person in front of the window, with the view in the background, and expose for the sunny daylight outside.Let's say 250, f8, 100 iso. You won't see the face in the EVF, just a silhouet. That is the problem... There really is no way around it at this moment. I've worked with Sony A9 (and II) for 3 years and used spot metering for this situation. But with Canon you can't move the spot metering, so you're model is stuck in the middle of the frame( if you wan't to see something).


Ok! Using an Einstein 640 outside with the Cyber Commander, very strong afternoon sun, and I was underexposing the background about two stops. I could still see my wife's face as I was composing. Exposure Simulation was enabled. Very easy.

But you must have a bigger contrast to deal with, the dark room and the bright daylight outside?

I don't see much trouble with just getting the correct exposure on the face with a meter, then going down two or so stops to avoid blowing out the background. Once you have Exposure Simulation disabled, you should be able to see your subject's face just fine.

Or am I still not getting the issue?


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## paul (Nov 21, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Ok! Using an Einstein 640 outside with the Cyber Commander, very strong afternoon sun, and I was underexposing the background about two stops. I could still see my wife's face as I was composing. Exposure Simulation was enabled. Very easy.
> 
> But you must have a bigger contrast to deal with, the dark room and the bright daylight outside?
> 
> ...


Not completely. The problem is with Exposure Simulation Disabled there is no real way to influence the image in your EVF. If it's too dark ( because of strong back light) you just have to live with that. (or use spotmetering and keep your model exactly in the middle of the frame..:-( )


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## YuengLinger (Nov 21, 2021)

paul said:


> Not completely. The problem is with Exposure Simulation Disabled there is no real way to influence the image in your EVF. If it's too dark ( because of strong back light) you just have to live with that. (or use spotmetering and keep your model exactly in the middle of the frame..:-( )


I wouldn't mind dispensing completely with flash-meters, but for now they work.

So, you just want to be able to further brighten the EVF when Expo Sim is disabled? Have the background completely blown out so that you can see expressions on the subject?

Maybe HDR? Seriously, have you tried changing the EVF by using Canon's Picture Style Editor? I did some pretty extreme styles that really look like HDR when I'm looking through the EVF. Maybe a custom Picture Style in your EVF will give you a workaround.


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## LogicExtremist (Nov 22, 2021)

AlanF said:


> It was a rhetorical question. You mistakenly corrected someone’s English because you misunderstood he was making a joke, and then made in a reply to me, when I explained it to you, that a joke was not amusing if it had to be explained. Don’t think it was a meta-analysis, it was a response to your comment to me.


Thanks for explanation, no problem. Yeah, I misunderstood the joke and was just stating the obvious, nothing more implied.


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## stevelee (Nov 22, 2021)

However you have it set, you need to think through what it is showing you, informed by your experience. I shoot Raw files, so simulating what the JPEG might look like may not tell me a lot. Since I’m used to an OVF, I can judge the look better from that, I think.


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## TimKamppinen (Nov 22, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> I wouldn't mind dispensing completely with flash-meters, but for now they work.
> 
> So, you just want to be able to further brighten the EVF when Expo Sim is disabled? Have the background completely blown out so that you can see expressions on the subject?
> 
> Maybe HDR? Seriously, have you tried changing the EVF by using Canon's Picture Style Editor? I did some pretty extreme styles that really look like HDR when I'm looking through the EVF. Maybe a custom Picture Style in your EVF will give you a workaround.


I made some custom picture styles as a workaround... first I tried in-camera but it didn't make much difference... then I used the picture style editor to create some low contrast styles with shadows pushed to the extreme. They actually worked to show the subject's expression in the viewfinder... but the resulting image looked truly awful. Sure, the RAW file is fine but it was making it hard to actually judge the flash exposure, light ratio, etc while shooting. And I would never want to show my client one of those photos on the back of the camera, which is something I often like to do in these sorts of situations (dramatic sunset shots). So in the end I gave up on the idea.


----------



## davo (Nov 23, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> I think I get what you are saying. You want to be able to use Exposure Simulation with flash.
> 
> If this is the case, I stumbled on a fairly simple way to do it--sort of.
> 
> ...


I put a piece of tape over the 4 small hotshoe contacts and leave the large main firing contact exposed. Now whether I have a flash or a transmitter on the hotshoe, I have full exposure simulation with full flash control.


----------



## dirtyvu (Nov 23, 2021)

Yessssss! AF is so challenging because everyone is wearing COVID masks...


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## jam05 (Nov 23, 2021)

sanj said:


> I thought it is a good feature. Why don't you appreciate it? Thx.


It's mirrorless. What you see is what you get. Not needed.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 23, 2021)

BBarn said:


> I'm pleased that Canon continues to offer firmware updates for improved performance. But like several other users, I'd like more flexibility in the assignment of button functions. In particular, I do not use any of the features currently assignable to the RATE button. It would be nice to have more flexibility in assigning that button's function.


The RATE button is a puzzle. Could there be some wiring/hardware limitation preventing further customization?


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## entoman (Nov 23, 2021)

jam05 said:


> It's mirrorless. What you see is what you get. Not needed.


Untrue. WYSIWYG is a myth. The EVF is a high contrast, highly compressed JPEG preview of an image with reduced colour gamut. Furthermore it cannot reliably be used to judge exposure, because your eyes will compensate for differences in the EVF brightness. So it is no more useful than the image seen on the LCD panel of a DSLR.

If you want "correct" exposure, it's best to regard the EVF image as nothing but a very rough approximation. Referring to the histogram is far more accurate and reliable. And if you really care about exposure accuracy, bracket your exposures.

The real value of an EVF is that you can instantly check that you got the subject sharp and in focus, without removing your eye.

Mirrorless provides many benefits in terms of AF tracking, silent shutter and blackout-free shooting, but "WYSIWYG" is highly overrated hype.


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## AlanF (Nov 23, 2021)

entoman said:


> Untrue. WYSIWYG is a myth. The EVF is a high contrast, highly compressed JPEG preview of an image with reduced colour gamut. Furthermore it cannot reliably be used to judge exposure, because your eyes will compensate for differences in the EVF brightness. So it is no more useful than the image seen on the LCD panel of a DSLR.
> 
> If you want "correct" exposure, it's best to regard the EVF image as nothing but a very rough approximation. Referring to the histogram is far more accurate and reliable. And if you really care about exposure accuracy, bracket your exposures.
> 
> ...


When you are shooting RAW on the R5, its sensor is completely iso-invariant above iso 800 to very high values. So as long as you don't clip highlights by overexposing, you can push the exposure through many stops in post processing without any deleterious effects compared with getting it "accurate" in camera. And it's not much worse than that at lower isos. The evf gives you the most important information: not clipping highlights. You can see through the evf how close you are to clipping highlights, and the camera will even indicate that to you as well by the bleached areas flashing black. I, personally, find the evf invaluable for judging exposure, though you might find that over-rated. I've given up using auto-exposure because it's now redundant for the way I use full manual. If I am shooting a brightly reflecting bird or with some bright parts, I scale back exposure. If its the other way round, I can see how much I can increase exposure without bleaching other parts.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 23, 2021)

entoman said:


> Untrue. WYSIWYG is a myth. The EVF is a high contrast, highly compressed JPEG preview of an image with reduced colour gamut. Furthermore it cannot reliably be used to judge exposure, because your eyes will compensate for differences in the EVF brightness. So it is no more useful than the image seen on the LCD panel of a DSLR.
> 
> If you want "correct" exposure, it's best to regard the EVF image as nothing but a very rough approximation. Referring to the histogram is far more accurate and reliable. And if you really care about exposure accuracy, bracket your exposures.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that you simply discredit one of the great benefits of the R5/R6. I have my EVF configured, after months of tweaking, to be very true, far better than a "rough approximation." Yes, the histogram adds to the precision I'm experiencing shot after shot, but, in my opinion, calling the exposure accuracy of what is represented by the EVF "highly overrated hype" suggests you are either dismissive of the tech, or you haven't managed to adjust your EVF properly_ for your eyes._

If the limited Picture Styles offered in-camera aren't working for you, experiment with the Canon Picture Styles Editor to create custom Styles.

EDIT: There is also the possibility, of course, that your own R5/R6 has an issue with the EVF.


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## entoman (Nov 23, 2021)

AlanF said:


> When you are shooting RAW on the R5, its sensor is completely iso-invariant above iso 800 to very high values. So as long as you don't clip highlights by overexposing, you can push the exposure through many stops in post processing without any deleterious effects compared with getting it "accurate" in camera. And it's not much worse than that at lower isos. The evf gives you the most important information: not clipping highlights. You can see through the evf how close you are to clipping highlights, and the camera will even indicate that to you as well by the bleached areas flashing black. I, personally, find the evf invaluable for judging exposure, though you might find that over-rated. I've given up using auto-exposure because it's now redundant for the way I use full manual. If I am shooting a brightly reflecting bird or with some bright parts, I scale back exposure. If its the other way round, I can see how much I can increase exposure without bleaching other parts.


"Correcting" the exposure by significant amounts alters the contrast, saturation and colour balance because the red, blue and green subpixels respond differently to varying light levels, so getting the exposure optimal in the first place saves a lot of work in post.

I wouldn't personally rely on the image shown in any EVF for assessing exposure - the histogram is a much better guide IMO. And while modern sensors such as in the R5 are fairly iso-invariant, lifting shadows will still increase noise levels. So I have to disagree about the usefulness of the "WYSIWYG" aspect of EVFs.

Like yourself, I generally shoot with manual metering. Whenever possible I also bracket exposures - the obvious exception being birds and insects in flight, or burst of animals running etc.


----------



## CODonnell (Nov 23, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> I don't know - adding another modes might be nice, but I still have gripes, with how messy all those modes are.
> 
> - The old school servo tracking is exactly that - well, old school. Working against the logic of other modes. I don't want my camera to refocus when I move it, I want it to lock on the subject and track it. So in single point mode, no servo for me.
> 
> ...


It is possible to configure a single point AF in one shot mode while still in face tracking servo mode and get the best of both


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## AlanF (Nov 23, 2021)

entoman said:


> And while modern sensors such as in the R5 are fairly iso-invariant, lifting shadows will still increase noise levels. So I have to disagree about the usefulness of the "WYSIWYG" aspect of EVFs.


Here are two actual sets of data on the R5 that show above about iso 400-800 there is negligible increase in noise on lifting shadows in post vs setting a higher iso. The first example are actual, real measurements by Bill Claff that show there are negligible changes in noise on lifting shadows, indicated by the red line I have drawn. https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Canon EOS R5 And, for those who prefer actual examples, the comparator from dpr https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-review/5 (quote: "in low light situations, you can use the shutter speed and aperture settings of a high ISO exposure, but keep the camera set to ISO 400. By the time you brighten up the shot in post, the image won't be noticeably noisier than if you shot natively at a higher ISO, but you've saved several stops of highlight information.") You can see clearly pushing through 4 stops from iso 400 in post processinggives the same noise as directly setting iso to 6400.


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## entoman (Nov 23, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Here are two actual sets of data on the R5 that show above about iso 400-800 there is negligible increase in noise on lifting shadows in post vs setting a higher iso. The first example are actual, real measurements by Bill Claff that show there are negligible changes in noise on lifting shadows, indicated by the red line I have drawn. https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Canon EOS R5 And, for those who prefer actual examples, the comparator from dpr https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-review/5 (quote: "in low light situations, you can use the shutter speed and aperture settings of a high ISO exposure, but keep the camera set to ISO 400. By the time you brighten up the shot in post, the image won't be noticeably noisier than if you shot natively at a higher ISO, but you've saved several stops of highlight information.") You can see clearly pushing through 4 stops from iso 400 in post processinggives the same noise as directly setting iso to 6400.
> 
> View attachment 201345
> View attachment 201346


Thanks, that does surprise me.
So, no point in having settings higher than ISO 800 on the camera then?  (other than having a pretty picture to chimp at the taking stage).

I'll stick with my opinion about the usefulness of "WYSIWYG" for assessing exposure though.

As for EVFs in general, I still use my 5DMkiv occasionally, and while I fully acknowledge and enjoy many of the benefits of my mirrorless R5, I still much prefer the experience of using an optical viewfinder. Overall of course, the R5 is a far better machine, and it's enabled me to get many shots that would have been a lot more difficut to capture, had I been using a DSLR.


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## entoman (Nov 23, 2021)

Unfortunately, none of the listed improvements in this update are of much use to me as I'm purely a wildlife and nature photographer, but it will be interesting to see if the "enhanced overall tracking of people" and the "improved eye detection", spills over into animal-eye AF. Probably not, as it seems to have been designed to detect masked faces.

Unfortunately again, despite many requests (on forums) from a large number of people, the plea to have an adjustable AF zone in tracking mode has been ignored again. It really would be useful to be able to set a smaller AF point, place it over any subject, and have the camera track it across the entire frame area (which from what I understand, is how the Sony system works).


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## Kit. (Nov 23, 2021)

entoman said:


> Unfortunately again, despite many requests (on forums) from a large number of people, the plea to have an adjustable AF zone in tracking mode has been ignored again. It really would be useful to be able to set a smaller AF point, place it over any subject, and have the camera track it across the entire frame area (which from what I understand, is how the Sony system works).


Hello? It's my default autofocus mode for the R5.

However, I would like to have the ability to keep this mode as the default, but put "tracking mode with _automatic_ selection of the starting point" on the AF-ON button. As far as I know, it's currently impossible.


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## entoman (Nov 23, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Hello? It's my default autofocus mode for the R5.
> 
> However, I would like to have the ability to keep this mode as the default, but put "tracking mode with _automatic_ selection of the starting point" on the AF-ON button. As far as I know, it's currently impossible.


Unless I've missed something obvious (which is quite possible ...at my age), in "face and tracking" made, you can only use the "standard" fairly large AF spot. What I want to do, for greater precision, is to use the smallest AF spot available, place it over the subject, and then have the camera track it across the frame.

My usual practice is to have "face and tracking" set as default, and case 2.
For BIF, I have AF/ON mapped to zone AF (large square) which works very well, provided that the bird remains within the AF zone, which is usually doable.
For small birds half hidden among branches and foliage, I have *button mapped for smallest AF point, but it won't track across the frame, so it's useless if the subject suddenly moves.

If you can explain in detail how you are able to use the smallest AF point, while enabling the camera to track whatever it is placed over, across the frame, you'd make me very happy!


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## AlanF (Nov 23, 2021)

entoman said:


> Thanks, that does surprise me.
> So, no point in having settings higher than ISO 800 on the camera then?  (other than having a pretty picture to chimp at the taking stage).
> 
> I'll stick with my opinion about the usefulness of "WYSIWYG" for assessing exposure though.
> ...



Believe me, it is very useful to know that if you have the iso set to 400 in EFCS or 800 in ES you can make those corrections in post. For example, I'll be in Fv mode with aperture at say f/7.1, iso 800 with the shutter speed at perhaps 1/1000s focussing on a perched bird. Suddenly, one flies over at speed and I can swivel the camera and turn the shutter speed up to 1/4000s by twisting the dial set on the shutter. Chimping isn't so good, but the final result will be fine.


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## Kit. (Nov 23, 2021)

entoman said:


> Unless I've missed something obvious (which is quite possible ...at my age), in "face and tracking" made, you can only use the "standard" fairly large AF spot. What I want to do, for greater precision, is to use the smallest AF spot available, place it over the subject, and then have the camera track it across the frame.


Ah, you mean that _smaller_ AF point...

Honestly, I'm not sure it would help, given how loose it usually is when it tries to track something other than eyes. I don't see why they wouldn't use the smaller point in the first place if it did work.



entoman said:


> My usual practice is to have "face and tracking" set as default, and case 2.
> For BIF, I have AF/ON mapped to zone AF (large square) which works very well, provided that the bird remains within the AF zone, which is usually doable.


Well, it kinda works, but it is unreliable at tracking eyes.



entoman said:


> I have *button mapped for smallest AF point


I need the * button for AE lock.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 23, 2021)

entoman said:


> What I want to do, for greater precision, is to use the smallest AF spot available, place it over the subject, and then have the camera track it across the frame.


With 1-series DSLRs, Canon recommended _not_ using Spot AF to initiate AI Servo tracking of fast moving subjects. Perhaps they baked that recommendation into the R-series firmware.


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## entoman (Nov 23, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Ah, you mean that _smaller_ AF point...


Yep, I often have quite small features of a subject that I'd like to be able to lock onto, e.g. insect eyes. From what I understand, Sony cameras can use even the smallest AF spot with full tracking, so hopefully Canon will be able to improve the usability and put out a firmware update at some stage.


Kit. said:


> Well, it kinda works, but it is unreliable at tracking eyes.



Yes it depends a lot on the subject. With large birds (herons, eagles, vultures, gulls etc) there is usually enough depth of field to cover the wings and eyes, with the subject half-filling the frame (400mm, F5.6). With smaller and faster moving birds I haven't yet perfected a technique for BIF, it's a bit hit and miss. I'd love to be able to focus on the eyes of a small perched bird and track it as it takes flight. I can do this easily with eagles etc, but sparrows, no way.



Kit. said:


> I need the * button for AE lock.


Most of the BIF guys on youtube etc seem to map the *button to the smallest AF spot, to nail birds half-hidden in bushes and trees. Nikons seem to have a more "intelligent" AF that can lock onto birds in these situations (I've compared Nikon and Canon DSLRs side by side in the field, and Nikons definitely acquire these subjects more readily, and are more "sticky" than Canons.

I find manual metering is the best method with birds (as they can move quickly from sky background to dark forest background while panning), and this dispenses with the need to have an AE lock.

Interesting to compare experiences.


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## entoman (Nov 23, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> With 1-series DSLRs, Canon recommended _not_ using Spot AF to initiate AI Servo tracking of fast moving subjects. Perhaps they baked that recommendation into the R-series firmware.
> 
> View attachment 201347


Yes I know, from my experience with 7D and 5D series. But you can use the smallest spot for tracking birds with Sony - and it works extremely well (on safari in Kenya a couple of weeks ago I had the chance to compare Sony a9ii with 200-600mm, with my R5 and 100-400mm). I'd imagine the difference in capability is down to the algorithms and the choice/number of images fed into the AI pre-manufacture.

In my experience Nikon DSLRs always outperformed Canon DSLRs for acquisition and "stickiness", but with mirrorless, prior to the Z9, Canons have been better than Nikons. If, as I suspect, it's more down to firmware than hardware, it would be nice if Canon would update the firmware.


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## AlanF (Nov 24, 2021)

entoman said:


> Yes I know, from my experience with 7D and 5D series. But you can use the smallest spot for tracking birds with Sony - and it works extremely well (on safari in Kenya a couple of weeks ago I had the chance to compare Sony a9ii with 200-600mm, with my R5 and 100-400mm). I'd imagine the difference in capability is down to the algorithms and the choice/number of images fed into the AI pre-manufacture.
> 
> In my experience Nikon DSLRs always outperformed Canon DSLRs for acquisition and "stickiness", but with mirrorless, prior to the Z9, Canons have been better than Nikons. If, as I suspect, it's more down to firmware than hardware, it would be nice if Canon would update the firmware.


The problem with AF with the Nikon Z7 and Z6 has been hardware: the Nikon processors have been too slow, and even putting a pair of them into the Z7II and Z6II series hasn’t been fast enough. A new, fast processor is at the heart of the Z9.


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## Czardoom (Nov 24, 2021)

entoman said:


> Untrue. WYSIWYG is a myth. The EVF is a high contrast, highly compressed JPEG preview of an image with reduced colour gamut. Furthermore it cannot reliably be used to judge exposure, because your eyes will compensate for differences in the EVF brightness. So it is no more useful than the image seen on the LCD panel of a DSLR.
> 
> If you want "correct" exposure, it's best to regard the EVF image as nothing but a very rough approximation. Referring to the histogram is far more accurate and reliable. And if you really care about exposure accuracy, bracket your exposures.
> 
> ...


That's funny, I have been using the "WYSIWYG" approximation on my mirrorless cameras since the first one I bought around 2015. It is the single biggest reason I switched from DSLRs, as it gives me a very good approximation of the exposure compensation needed when I shoot. It sounds to me like you are completely overthinking what occurs when you look thru the EVF. Is it perfect? - no, of course not. But very useful in my opinion. It's another tool that gives you additional information compared to an OVF. It sounds, quite frankly, like you're doing something wrong in your EVF setup if you find that WYSIWYG is hype and a myth.


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## liv_img (Nov 24, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> The RATE button is a puzzle. Could there be some wiring/hardware limitation preventing further customization?


Never used the RATE and the LOCK buttons in any of my 5D successive cameras. Love that they would be customized for something utile.


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## AlanF (Nov 24, 2021)

entoman said:


> Most of the BIF guys on youtube etc seem to map the *button to the smallest AF spot, to nail birds half-hidden in bushes and trees. Nikons seem to have a more "intelligent" AF that can lock onto birds in these situations (I've compared Nikon and Canon DSLRs side by side in the field, and Nikons definitely acquire these subjects more readily, and are more "sticky" than Canons.
> 
> 
> Interesting to compare experiences.


Here‘s my experience. I‘ve shot perched birds and BIF extensively with a Nikon D850 and D500. Using spot focus, Canon is possibly slightly faster to lock on. For BIF, the Nikons really scored with group focus, which was the setting recommended by Arbitrage. The group focus uses a block of points, which is best for tracking BIF in most circumstances, and is really "sticky". The D850 is so good, I gave up on the 5DSR and 5DIV as is beat both for IQ and AF. After having the R5 and Nikons at the same time for over a year together, I sold all the Nikon bodies and lenses this month as for me the R5 is better all round and I prefer the Canon zoom lenses. One of my CR friends still prefers the D850 over the R5 so different styles of shooting lead to different choices.


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## David_D (Nov 24, 2021)

AlanF said:


> The evf gives you the most important information: not clipping highlights. You can see through the evf how close you are to clipping highlights, and the camera will even indicate that to you as well by the *bleached areas flashing black*. I, personally, find the evf invaluable for judging exposure, though you might find that over-rated.


Is it possible to get the over-exposure blinking in the EVF, or is it just in the post-capture review? (I have been looking for this option since getting my R5, but not found it in the menus.)


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## Shaun Gibbs (Nov 24, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> Yessssss! AF is so challenging because everyone is wearing COVID masks...


Hope it works with models wearing hats too.


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## jeffa4444 (Nov 24, 2021)

Thank you Canon for adding these enhancements to the R5 & R6. Great to have the manual focusing feature whilst in AF for the RF 70-200mm f4L IS USM in low light portraits this will be great for nailing the eye you want in focus. Only positives and no negatives to this firmware upgrade.


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## entoman (Nov 24, 2021)

David_D said:


> Is it possible to get the over-exposure blinking in the EVF, or is it just in the post-capture review? (I have been looking for this option since getting my R5, but not found it in the menus.)


You can't get blinkies pre-capture (stills) on the R5, but you can set the camera to display the post-capture shot instantly, so it's pretty quick to check and take another shot if needed. Much quicker, is to simply shoot a high speed bracketed burst of 3 shots in half-stop increments (or 1 stop increments in trickier lighting conditions), which will guarantee a correct exposure and make it far less likely that you'll "miss the moment" by reshooting. That was my practice with DSLRs and I still find it the best method with the R5. Despite the opinions/experiences of some others here, I personally find using the histogram is better for assessing exposure than relying on the "WYSIWYG". R5 files have a lot of latitude for correcting exposure in post, but it's easier (and good practice) to get it right at the taking stage.


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## David_D (Nov 24, 2021)

entoman said:


> You can't get blinkies pre-capture (stills) on the R5, but you can set the camera to display the post-capture shot instantly, so it's pretty quick to check and take another shot if needed. Much quicker, is to simply shoot a high speed bracketed burst of 3 shots in half-stop increments (or 1 stop increments in trickier lighting conditions), which will guarantee a correct exposure and make it far less likely that you'll "miss the moment" by reshooting. That was my practice with DSLRs and I still find it the best method with the R5. Despite the opinions/experiences of some others here, I personally find using the histogram is better for assessing exposure than relying on the "WYSIWYG". R5 files have a lot of latitude for correcting exposure in post, but it's easier (and good practice) to get it right at the taking stage.


The problem is, I hit this the other weekend photographing some flying [while] swans, against a cloudy sky. I did not mind (too much) if some bits of cloud distant from the subject were blown-out, as long as the birds were not. I was using ES (for the highest frame rate - to get some shots with the wings in a good position) which does not allow exposure bracketing (unless I am mistaken). For now I'll use AlanF's suggestion of using the EVF exposure simulation along with the histogram and then deliberately under-expose a little to make sure the highlights are not blown-out and correct in post.
The other advantage I see with the blinking warning is that it is in your face! Recently, I have been using manual exposure for birds-in-flight, as you get the consistent exposure, no matter if the bird flies in front of a dark or light background. The problem is, I am not good enough yet to remember to keep monitoring the histogram, so may not notice the light levels have increased, or the bird has flown into a less shaded area. If there was a black/white flashing area, I would hopefully notice that


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## YuengLinger (Nov 24, 2021)

Call me calloused, but if, after several months of actually using the R5, one is still unable to get correct exposures, time to sell it and stick with a smartphone. Or just let other folks take photos.


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## AlanF (Nov 24, 2021)

David_D said:


> Is it possible to get the over-exposure blinking in the EVF, or is it just in the post-capture review? (I have been looking for this option since getting my R5, but not found it in the menus.)


I think you are right and I do see it in review - I have to finish writing a lecture and I'll check later.


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## AlanF (Nov 24, 2021)

David_D said:


> The problem is, I hit this the other weekend photographing some flying [while] swans, against a cloudy sky. I did not mind (too much) if some bits of cloud distant from the subject were blown-out, as long as the birds were not. I was using ES (for the highest frame rate - to get some shots with the wings in a good position) which does not allow exposure bracketing (unless I am mistaken). For now I'll use AlanF's suggestion of using the EVF exposure simulation along with the histogram and then deliberately under-expose a little to make sure the highlights are not blown-out and correct in post.
> The other advantage I see with the blinking warning is that it is in your face! Recently, I have been using manual exposure for birds-in-flight, as you get the consistent exposure, no matter if the bird flies in front of a dark or light background. The problem is, I am not good enough yet to remember to keep monitoring the histogram, so may not notice the light levels have increased, or the bird has flown into a less shaded area. If there was a black/white flashing area, I would hopefully notice that


Manual exposure for BIF is an absolute must for me. Iso-invariance of sensors is a godsend because there is so much latitude in underexposing and then pushing in post. Back to my lecture...


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## Kit. (Nov 24, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Call me calloused, but if, after several months of actually using the R5, one is still unable to get correct exposures, time to sell it and stick with a smartphone. Or just let other folks take photos.


Or return to the proven method of using a grey card instead on relying on your several decades of training in estimating the scene contrast by what you are seeing in the OVF.


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## entoman (Nov 24, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Call me calloused, but if, after several months of actually using the R5, one is still unable to get correct exposures, time to sell it and stick with a smartphone. Or just let other folks take photos.


Well at least you've admitted that your comment was "callous". Perhaps instead of trying to sound "clever", it might have been a better idea to actually suggest a way in which you could help the OP and give them the benefit of your profound knowledge, experience and skill. Some come here to show how smart they think they are, others fortunately come here to share experiences and learn from others...


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## entoman (Nov 25, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> That's funny, I have been using the "WYSIWYG" approximation on my mirrorless cameras since the first one I bought around 2015. It is the single biggest reason I switched from DSLRs, as it gives me a very good approximation of the exposure compensation needed when I shoot.


Well I learned the hard way, shooting on slide film. With only 36 frames on each film, and with film and processing both being pretty expensive, I very quickly learnt how much exposure compensation to apply in any lighting situation that I encountered. With a DSLR, I can pretty much guarantee getting within half a stop of optimum exposure, and with modern mirrorless cameras there is so much exposure latitude that WYSIWYG is hardly a necessity. If in doubt, err on the side of underexposure to avid burnt out highlights, and then just pull the shadows in post.

I can think of many very good reasons for switching from DSLRs to MILCs, but for me, WSIWYG isn't one of them. The real value of MILC's for me lies in the vastly improved AF, IBIS, reduced vibration and noise, fewer mechanical parts, fast burst speeds, blackout-free viewfinder, greater compactness etc.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 25, 2021)

entoman said:


> Well at least you've admitted that your comment was "callous". Perhaps instead of trying to sound "clever", it might have been a better idea to actually suggest a way in which you could help the OP and give them the benefit of your profound knowledge, experience and skill. Some come here to show how smart they think they are, others fortunately come here to share experiences and learn from others...


I suggest you read through the thread.


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## Jethro (Nov 25, 2021)

entoman said:


> Despite the opinions/experiences of some others here, I personally find using the histogram is better for assessing exposure than relying on the "WYSIWYG". R5 files have a lot of latitude for correcting exposure in post, but it's easier (and good practice) to get it right at the taking stage.


But you can view the live histogram in a WYSIWYG EVF - to me that is one of the big advantages of a ML camera - the basic image in the EVF gives you a very good idea of the exposure, and the histogram sitting in (in my case) the top right corner, confirms any potential issues with clipping. The histogram is (in my experience) not exactly perfect, but again it's pretty good.


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## dirtyvu (Nov 26, 2021)

jam05 said:


> It's mirrorless. What you see is what you get. Not needed.


not always. for example, if you set your LCD brightness very high or very low, you'll notice a difference in brightness when you go to edit your photos.


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## AlanF (Nov 26, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> not always. for example, if you set your LCD brightness very high or very low, you'll notice a difference in brightness when you go to edit your photos.


The same when you set your computer monitor brightness very high or low.


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## Viggo (Nov 26, 2021)

AlanF said:


> The same when you set your computer monitor brightness very high or low.


Difference is, a monitor can and should be calibrated, the camera screen can’t.


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## AlanF (Nov 26, 2021)

Viggo said:


> Difference is, a monitor can and should be calibrated, the camera screen can’t.


You didn't get the nuance: it's pretty obvious that if you set your evf brightness away from normal it's going to give you abnormal brightness.


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## Viggo (Nov 26, 2021)

AlanF said:


> You didn't get the nuance: it's pretty obvious that if you set your evf brightness away from normal it's going to give you abnormal brightness.


I adjust according to histogram, with a very flat picture profile, so when the histogram tells me the whites are clipped I adjusted the EVF and screen so that it shows pretty much the same clipped as the histogram and then double check my editing screen. But, there is really no meaningful difference between a small amount of difference in screen brightness. If it’s THAT important you can’t trust anything but a proper light meter.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 27, 2021)

Viggo said:


> Difference is, a monitor can and should be calibrated, the camera screen can’t.


If by calibrated, you strictly mean with a standardized device, yes. But, to within a very practical, useful, real-world usage degree of accuracy, Viggo, the EVF and the LCD of the R5/R6 can be calibrated by eye. Simply work with the brightness controls, comparing them to correct exposures, and perhaps tweaking the Picture Style settings (in-camera and with Canon's Picture Style Editor), and you can get VERY close to SPOT ON WYSIWYG.

Takes some patience and time, but, in my opinion, the investment is important and rewarding.

And I would say that the metering of the R5/R6 is indeed "proper." Include the Histogram with the EVF representation, and correct exposures are solidly consistent in all types of lighting scenarios. (The only purpose I see for an external meter, with my photography at this time, is for flash. My Paul C. Buff Cyber Commander's integrated flash meter is just as accurate in practical terms as my Kenko light/flash meter. Yes, there must be more precise meters for more money, but, in practical use, my exposures are, as stated, consistently correct. Why worry about more than this?


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## itsab1989 (Nov 28, 2021)

I usually shoot in a semi-automatic mode. Mostly AV or sometimes manual with auto ISO. And pretty much like my 5D IV before the images on my R5 come out a bit too dark (at least for my taste) when I use one of the pre-installed picture profiles and trust the camera about what it thinks would be the correct exposure settings. I know I could simply use exposure compensation, but that would give me slower shutter speeds or higher ISO resulting in less sharp images or clipping of highlights. So instead I created a custom picture profile based on Canons Fine Detail where I tweaked the curve a bit to make the image a little brighter. The way my JPEG files are looking good OOC (for my taste at least) and the RAW files ofer a lot of playroom for editing.

The thing about the screen and the EVF is that no matter how I set the brightness of these I cannot judge the images just from that. In camera the images looked fine from the beginning, but when I transfered them to my phone or PC the appeared to dark. So without a reference point the screens are pretty useless for me in terms of WYSIWYG. That means that I would have to use the histogram to get it exactly right (maybe, but it’s somewhat distracting for me) or maybe a pure white border around the image for reference (which will never happen).
The other problem is that the colors on the EVF are way off. I know there is a setting to tweak this as well, but I can’t really get it right. The screen on the back always shows me better (and more accurate?) colors.

But anyway… The way I set up my R5 now I know what to expect and I can trust the results.
Can’t wait for the update though and hope it really improves the AF further, because two days ago I had an issue where the camera refused to focus on my daughter using the EF 24-70 f/2.8. It recognized her eye but it was not focussing even if I let go of the button and pressed it again. Had to focus on a different object and then got back to my daughter to make it work again. Strange…


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## -pekr- (Nov 29, 2021)

CODonnell said:


> It is possible to configure a single point AF in one shot mode while still in face tracking servo mode and get the best of both



How? You mean like assigning a button to Facet tracking and pressing it, while in a single point AF mode?


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## steen-ag (Dec 6, 2021)

snappy604 said:


> very happy to see them continue to improve the AI on focus and continue to provide updates for it.
> 
> wish they still had better ways to control the IBIS.. its not bad, just wish better esp on turning it off and just allowing lens IS on sometimes. I think IBIS has minor conflicts sometimes with 3rd party lens IS and panning (e.g sigma 150-600)


Then by a Canon Lens


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## snappy604 (Dec 7, 2021)

steen-ag said:


> Then by a Canon Lens


What a silly statement. I have several canon lenses, including an RF 24-70 2.8L, that doesn't mean there isn't value in 3rd party lenses


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## Bonich (Dec 14, 2021)

SnowMiku said:


> AF Spot metering would be very useful for birds, just set the AF point on the bird then get proper exposure without needing to use exposure compensation. Sometimes the background such as a sky is too bright for the bird so the camera will expose for the background and you need to increase the exposure. Any feature that would save time even if it's only just a second could be the difference of getting the shot or not.


So you expose AF Spot on a raven and a swan with same parameters?
In doubt I prefer shooting with manual exposure, especially birds in flight


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## CODonnell (Dec 20, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> How? You mean like assigning a button to Facet tracking and pressing it, while in a single point AF mode?


Sorry for the late reply. I'm always in Face Tracking mode and never need to switch to single point (pr others). My AF ON is configured to single point AF in single shot mode. '*' is configured for eye detect in servo mode. I also setup my Initial servo AF Point for face tracking is set to single point. The result is that while in face tracking AF mode I have a single point af point that I can move around and when I want to use that focus point only I press the AF ON button. Else I use '*' for face/ eyes in servo mode.


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## vjlex (Jun 2, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> OK Canon, now build all this nifty firmware into an APS-C R7 with 24MP and 20FPS at $2000.
> 
> Correction: $1600


Canon: We'll do you one better- 32MP, 30FPS, $1500


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## Bob Howland (Jun 2, 2022)

vjlex said:


> Canon: We'll do you one better- 32MP, 30FPS, $1500


And I ordered one at 7AM on the day it was announced.


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