# Here’s a list of rumoured and predicted cameras coming from Canon in the next year



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 13, 2019)

> The next year will prove to be a big one for Canon on the camera body front, as we’re going to be going into an Olympic year on Canon’s home turf of Japan.
> The first Photokina on the new schedule is also in 2020, with the show taking place May 27, 2020 – May 30, 2020.
> Below is a list of rumoured and predicted cameras coming from Canon in the next year or so.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## unfocused (Jul 13, 2019)

Just wondering, Craig, if this is based on new/better information or just a summary of previously reported rumors?


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jul 13, 2019)

It seems like Canon should release at least one full frame RF body within 2019 to avoid photographers switching from their brand. I'm curious how many photographers have the patience to wait until 2020 for a two card body. Presently, I find the EOS R perfect for my needs, but use a two-card 5DS alongside. I am ready this very instant to add a 3rd body and would gladly buy another EOS R today, but want my 3rd body to have 2 cards.


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## Del Paso (Jul 13, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> It seems like Canon should release at least one full frame RF body within 2019 to avoid photographers switching from their brand. I'm curious how many photographers have the patience to wait until 2020 for a two card body. Presently, I find the EOS R perfect for my needs, but use a two-card 5DS alongside. I am ready this very instant to add a 3rd body and would gladly buy another EOS R today, but want my 3rd body to have 2 cards.


Me too!


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jul 13, 2019)

PS to my previous reply ... there's a "wave" Canon can ride this year if they can get even one full frame two-card RF body out. Right now, popular reviewers like SLR Lounge are giving RF glass praise, like the RF 28-27 being a "favorite all-time lens". That's just one of many good RF glass reviews beginning to propagate.


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## navastronia (Jul 13, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> It seems like Canon should release at least one full frame RF body within 2019 to avoid photographers switching from their brand. I'm curious how many photographers have the patience to wait until 2020 for a two card body. Presently, I find the EOS R perfect for my needs, but use a two-card 5DS alongside. I am ready this very instant to add a 3rd body and would gladly buy another EOS R today, but want my 3rd body to have 2 cards.



I think the consensus is that professional photographers are already shooting with cameras that fulfill their basic needs (like a 5D III or IV, or a 1DX mark ii), so why rush? They're invested in the Canon ecosystem already, with loads of L glass that will work perfectly on an R body when they want to get one, so what's the hurry? I don't think people really want to switch brands as much as we talk about it happening. It's a pain in the butt to do so.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jul 13, 2019)

navastronia said:


> I think the consensus is that professional photographers are already shooting with cameras that fulfill their basic needs (like a 5D III or IV, or a 1DX mark ii), so why rush? They're invested in the Canon ecosystem already, with loads of L glass that will work perfectly on an R body when they want to get one, so what's the hurry? I don't think people really want to switch brands as much as we talk about it happening. It's a pain in the butt to do so.



Part of that is true. Just last month while emailing a photographer selling a 5D mk ii on Craigslist as a possible 4th body relic to keep in my office, she said she was upgrading to two 5D mk iii bodies. Not to the EOS R nor the 5D mk iv ... On the other hand, its evident from Youtube, forums and social media, that Canon has lost more than just a handful of professional camera owners the past few years. I suspect CANON is probably not too worried about things and has a good game plan whatever it may be.


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## C Tographer (Jul 13, 2019)

What I want in a Canon still camera:
-Full-frame + RF mount
-Computational photography, Google Pixel style, by combining multiple images to increase dynamic range.
-Serious video ability, such as waveform monitor and higher than 8-bit recording.

What I want from a Canon Cinema camera:
-Move the bottom-of-market (C100, C200) to RF-mount and full-frame. These people are mainly shooting with full-frame still photo lenses, where the smaller Super 35 sensor makes no sense.


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## Philrp (Jul 13, 2019)

EOS M rumor?

I'm still hoping for an M version of the 90D with an R mount ;O)


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## Maximilian (Jul 13, 2019)

Oh, Canon, please give me a EOS R5, or what you would call it.


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 13, 2019)

navastronia said:


> I think the consensus is that professional photographers are already shooting with cameras that fulfill their basic needs (like a 5D III or IV, or a 1DX mark ii), so why rush? They're invested in the Canon ecosystem already, with loads of L glass that will work perfectly on an R body when they want to get one, so what's the hurry? I don't think people really want to switch brands as much as we talk about it happening. It's a pain in the butt to do so.


if u do a lot of video switching isnt bad. just adapt the canon lens u have. then get whatever sony ones u need that u dont have in a canon flavor. plentty of peopel i know got a sony now if they do video work.


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 13, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> PS to my previous reply ... there's a "wave" Canon can ride this year if they can get even one full frame two-card RF body out. Right now, popular reviewers like SLR Lounge are giving RF glass praise, like the RF 28-27 being a "favorite all-time lens". That's just one of many good RF glass reviews beginning to propagate.


the lens get praise but not much else. then the lens that are praised are out of the price range of most people. they literally did the opposite of what people wanted.


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## RareCameraUnicorn (Jul 13, 2019)

Is there a chance to see the G3X II in 2020 ? or unlikely ?


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## Durf (Jul 13, 2019)

The 90D better be good! I've been waiting for almost 3 years for a 7D Mark iii


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## Danglin52 (Jul 13, 2019)

They listed the 90d but didn’t mention an M5 II. Is that an oversight or do they not expect an upgrade based on current information?


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## jvillain (Jul 13, 2019)

navastronia said:


> I think the consensus is that professional photographers are already shooting with cameras that fulfill their basic needs (like a 5D III or IV, or a 1DX mark ii), so why rush?



Or why put out a camera at all? People have lots of reasons for why they need new cameras and can't wait. This wouldn't be such an issue if Canon had just started to drag their feet but they have been doing it for years now. But there is always a new SL-2 just around the corner.



C Tographer said:


> -Move the bottom-of-market (C100, C200) to RF-mount and full-frame.



I'm not that excited about moving to full frame but the RF mount on the C series is starting to become a problem. I have a full range of crop glass but my only FF glass an 85. I would like to add the RF-35 and start selling some of my crop glass but I can't do that as I may need the lenses on a C series in the near future and can't adapt R glass to it.


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## Ozarker (Jul 13, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> Part of that is true. Just last month while emailing a photographer selling a 5D mk ii on Craigslist as a possible 4th body relic to keep in my office, she said she was upgrading to two 5D mk iii bodies. Not to the EOS R nor the 5D mk iv ... On the other hand, its evident from Youtube, forums and social media, that Canon has lost more than just a handful of professional camera owners the past few years. I suspect CANON is probably not too worried about things and has a good game plan whatever it may be.


Youtube, Social Media, and forums are not a very accurate gauge of what is happening. Sales and market share, however, are. There are people on this forum who've been threatening to switch for years and years. Whatever. They take their cramp pills and are fine until the next cycle of gear that comes along to bash. The point is, there are also people switching from M43, Nikon, and Sony to Canon. I don't think Canon is worried at all. Sony and Nikon's share will continue to slip.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 13, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> They listed the 90d but didn’t mention an M5 II. Is that an oversight or do they not expect an upgrade based on current information?



I honestly don't care about the EOS M system.  I've updated the post and now mention the EOS M system.
That said, I haven't heard anything for quite some time about new cameras for the system. It would make sense to come at the same time as the EOS 90D.


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## Mistral75 (Jul 13, 2019)

There are three unannounced Canon cameras registered with radiocommunications authorities:

DS126801 (registered on 8 May, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, LP-E6N battery, 6,940×4,640 = 32 MP sensor)
PC2358 (registered on 16 April, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4.1, LP-E17 battery)
PC2367 (registered on 16 April, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4.2, LP-E12 battery)
Source: Nokishita Camera https://www.nokishita-camera.com/p/blog-page_3.html#canon


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## noms78 (Jul 13, 2019)

I also predict a 5DV and equivalent mirrorless body, which is what people who are skipping the 5DIV and R are waiting for.


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## sanj (Jul 13, 2019)

I am waiting to compare 1dx3 with the 'equivalent' mirrorless.


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## LensFungus (Jul 14, 2019)

My simple wish is a Canon EOS M6 Mark II with reliable Eye-AF. Don't care about IBIS, video, Joystick, 2 card slots, but if you wanna give me some of that, Canon, feel free to do so.


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## criscokkat (Jul 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I honestly don't care about the EOS M system.  I've updated the post and now mention the EOS M system.
> That said, I haven't heard anything for quite some time about new cameras for the system. It would make sense to come at the same time as the EOS 90D.


I suspect it will stick around. I doubt sigma would produce lenses for it if it was going away.


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## Greatland (Jul 14, 2019)

As someone who has owned the IDX mk 1 and Mk II, I am waiting for the MK III...my question is with the Summer Olympics coming next August will the MK III be AVAILABLE prior to the Olympic games??? Seems to me that they need that camera in people's hands prior to seeing all of the pros using it in Japan....just my two cents worth, but waiting until after the Olympics is just gonna piss me off!


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## bdbender4 (Jul 14, 2019)

You may not care about the M system, but one would think Canon would. The M50 is the largest selling mirrorless camera in Japan and has been 1st or 2nd selling Canon IL camera there for quite a while, and the M100 ranks 4th. Personally, it is/was also my own favorite Canon system. After quite a while of waiting for an always-promised-never-delivered update to the M5 I gave up and switched to another system late last year. And now they seemed to have stopped even promising it.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2019)

bdbender4 said:


> You may not care about the M system, but one would think Canon would. The M50 is the largest selling mirrorless camera in Japan and has been 1st or 2nd selling Canon IL camera there for quite a while, and the M100 ranks 4th. Personally, it is/was also my own favorite Canon system. After quite a while of waiting for an always-promised-never-delivered update to the M5 I gave up and switched to another system late last year. And now they seemed to have stopped even promising it.


I picked up a used M5 and 18-150 last week after giving my original M away last year. Absolutely love the little thing.


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## Adelino (Jul 14, 2019)

Greatland said:


> As someone who has owned the IDX mk 1 and Mk II, I am waiting for the MK III...my question is with the Summer Olympics coming next August will the MK III be AVAILABLE prior to the Olympic games??? Seems to me that they need that camera in people's hands prior to seeing all of the pros using it in Japan....just my two cents worth, but waiting until after the Olympics is just gonna piss me off!


It doesn't have to be too far in advance of the Olympics since the muscle memory will not change as the pro series is going to be very similar to the existing pro series. But the sooner the better  The Mark II came out in February of the Olympic year.


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## Danglin52 (Jul 14, 2019)

At least you added the smiley face emoji on the M5 comment! Seriously, I don’t disagree about the lack of commitment. You can see from my gear list I am usually more interested in the mainstream gear. I actually like using the M5 for trips where I want DSLR capabilities but don’t want to lug around a big body. I carry one of the M zooms when I want really light, but you can get some nice images with the 40mm pancake or 70-200 f4 L IS II. My only asks for the M5 is improve performance across the board and eliminate the laggy AF. I would actually like something like the XT-3 but don’t want to deal with adapting Canon lenses to a non-canon body. I am interested in the 90D if it has enough 7dII DNA with better high ISO and AF.


Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I honestly don't care about the EOS M system.  I've updated the post and now mention the EOS M system.
> That said, I haven't heard anything for quite some time about new cameras for the system. It would make sense to come at the same time as the EOS 90D.


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## Ozarker (Jul 14, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Curious if anyone who wants two cards for backup in case a card dies, is happy with the camera's ability to sync photos via Blutooth to a smart phone? I've tried it myself and it works but is a bit slow on my relatively old iPhone. I don't know if its faster on newer phones or if that speed difference make the difference between eliminating the need for two-card camera for anyone or not.


Slow and I believe JPEGS only.


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## Danglin52 (Jul 14, 2019)

Greatland said:


> As someone who has owned the IDX mk 1 and Mk II, I am waiting for the MK III...my question is with the Summer Olympics coming next August will the MK III be AVAILABLE prior to the Olympic games??? Seems to me that they need that camera in people's hands prior to seeing all of the pros using it in Japan....just my two cents worth, but waiting until after the Olympics is just gonna piss me off!


I love my 1dx II but not sure I will upgrade unless the 1dx iii has significantly better AF & high ISO performance. I don’t need more mpx or faster frame rate. I would like to see what they do with the mirrorless version. It would also be nice if the 90d had enough 7dII DNA to make it interesting. I loved the 7dII as a camera body but was never happy with the ISO above 800.


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## Greatland (Jul 14, 2019)

Adelino said:


> It doesn't have to be too far in advance of the Olympics since the muscle memory will not change as the pro series is going to be very similar to the existing pro series. But the sooner the better  The Mark II came out in February of the Olympic year.


I purchased my MK II in early February or March and Canon was taking pre-orders, as I seem to recall, late the previous year. Since we have all heard that the MK III is out in beta testing, I am still hoping that the camera will be announced in December and available to consumers BEFORE SUMMER ARRIVES...that's my hope anyway, as I sold my 5Dsr about two months ago and need a back up camera for my MK II...no I need my MK II to be my back u camera....


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## Ozarker (Jul 14, 2019)

Personally, the only reason to switch completely to mirrorless Canon is for the lenses, at this point.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jul 14, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> the lens get praise but not much else. then the lens that are praised are out of the price range of most people. they literally did the opposite of what people wanted.


You may not get around the block much !! I'm hearing from photographers on forums, Facebook and Instagram who have been buying RF 85mm lenses. More than I anticipated to hear about. Sounds like the opposite of what you can afford*,* but totally in line with the purchasers are acquiring and sharing.

But when the EOS R was first released, I was suprised by how many photographers were buying the RF 50mm and not just the kit lens. I bought the RF 50mm and although it is not inexpensive, it's one of my favorite lenses and reminds me of the Zeiss Milvus 85mm I used to have for how nice the photos look. It may be that RF 85mm buyers share more on the internet, but regardless, there seems some fair movement with sales.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> At least you added the smiley face emoji on the M5 comment! Seriously, I don’t disagree about the lack of commitment. You can see from my gear list I am usually more interested in the mainstream gear. I actually like using the M5 for trips where I want DSLR capabilities but don’t want to lug around a big body. I carry one of the M zooms when I want really light, but you can get some nice images with the 40mm pancake or 70-200 f4 L IS II. My only asks for the M5 is improve performance across the board and eliminate the laggy AF. I would actually like something like the XT-3 but don’t want to deal with adapting Canon lenses to a non-canon body. I am interested in the 90D if it has enough 7dII DNA with better high ISO and AF.


The one thing I’d like upgraded, ok two things, the replay/review time is insane, and I never say no to better AF.


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## cayenne (Jul 14, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Curious if anyone who wants two cards for backup in case a card dies, is happy with the camera's ability to sync photos via Blutooth to a smart phone? I've tried it myself and it works but is a bit slow on my relatively old iPhone. I don't know if its faster on newer phones or if that speed difference make the difference between eliminating the need for two-card camera for anyone or not.



I personally don't think I"d ever want to trust anything critical to a wireless/Bluetooth connection.

It's handy, but still prone to interference, loss of signal, etc. For criticality, I trust something 'wired' in.....

Just my $0.02,

C


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 14, 2019)

cayenne said:


> I personally don't think I"d ever want to trust anything critical to a wireless/Bluetooth connection.
> 
> It's handy, but still prone to interference, loss of signal, etc. For criticality, I trust something 'wired' in.....
> 
> ...



This. Bluetooth is a bit more stable than other wireless connections and can change between many channels. However, the largest events with the highest chance for interference are the events with the highest amount of risk.


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## victorshikhman (Jul 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I honestly don't care about the EOS M system.  I've updated the post and now mention the EOS M system.
> That said, I haven't heard anything for quite some time about new cameras for the system. It would make sense to come at the same time as the EOS 90D.



Ouch. Don't care? Not something one would expect from a Canon fan site. Of course they'll reuse the 90d sensor for the M system. It's a great system, affordable and much smaller and lighter than RF.


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## ERHP (Jul 14, 2019)

Haven't bought anything new in a while. 1DX II, 5DSR, 600 II, etc etc. Did buy my Mom a 7D MK II to replace her old T3. People keep trying to convince me to buy into Sony, then when we are out they are waiting for their camera to wake up so not exactly a compelling sales talk. More than 50MP FF with an actual buffer would interest me, especially coupled with the 200-400/600 lenses. Was going to buy a 600 III but waiting to see how the dust settles on the RF side.


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## Quirkz (Jul 14, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I picked up a used M5 and 18-150 last week after giving my original M away last year. Absolutely love the little thing.



If you got it at BH photo, that may have been mine that I just traded in 
Loved that thing...


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## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2019)

Quirkz said:


> If you got it at BH photo, that may have been mine that I just traded in
> Loved that thing...


Ha, no I got it locally. Just paid nearly as much for the RRS L-Plate from KEH as I did for the kit! One thing I would like is a genuine hotshot cover, can't seem to find the genuine thing for sale anywhere.


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## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Curious if anyone who wants two cards for backup in case a card dies, is happy with the camera's ability to sync photos via Blutooth to a smart phone? I've tried it myself and it works but is a bit slow on my relatively old iPhone. I don't know if its faster on newer phones or if that speed difference make the difference between eliminating the need for two-card camera for anyone or not.


not a solution as a BT or WiFi sync operation is substantially slower than the write to memory card operation is. Your backup job will be massively out of sync and therefore you are risking a substantial volume of data. This cannot be mitigated. A second card addresses this issue nicely.


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## koenkooi (Jul 14, 2019)

LensFungus said:


> My simple wish is a Canon EOS M6 Mark II with reliable Eye-AF. Don't care about IBIS, video, Joystick, 2 card slots, but if you wanna give me some of that, Canon, feel free to do so.



I wouldn't mind IBIS, but yes, I'm also waiting for on M6 Mark II, the EVF on my M50 is only used to make it juuuuuust too big for dashpoint bags I use for the M1.


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## fox40phil (Jul 14, 2019)

I m using my 5DIV more often in liveview then before with my 5DII. The liveview AF is for not flying birds or sports always better then the normal mirrored one. So if there is a n "always" liveview version of an 5DIV equivalent It would be awesome!!! Can't be that hard for Canon to develop one. Maybe 4-6 MP more, 2-3 pics/s more, IBIS, same or little bit better IQ, no crop for video (4k)...thats it.


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## max_sr (Jul 14, 2019)

fox40phil said:


> ..., 2-3 pics/s more, ..., no crop for video (4k)...



Those seem to be the most difficult things to do for Canon.


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## pwp (Jul 14, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Curious if anyone who wants two cards for backup in case a card dies, is happy with the camera's ability to sync photos via Blutooth to a smart phone? I've tried it myself and it works but is a bit slow on my relatively old iPhone. I don't know if its faster on newer phones or if that speed difference make the difference between eliminating the need for two-card camera for anyone or not.


Who needs two card slots? It's like a car driver saying, "Who needs seat-belts and airbags or insurance? I've never had a crash..." 
Just wait till you have to call a soon to be ex-client saying there was a memory card fail and we've got no shots. It's happened to me. Even top quality cards fail, though very rarely. To state the endlessly posted and bleeding obvious, recording RAW to two cards is the simplest insurance imaginable. 

Photographers who value their work be they enthusiast or professional will choose the two slot camera body every time. Thus, I don't have an RF body yet.

-pw


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 14, 2019)

pwp said:


> Who needs two card slots? It's like a car driver saying, "Who needs seat-belts and airbags or insurance? I've never had a crash..."
> Just wait till you have to call a soon to be ex-client saying there was a memory card fail and we've got no shots. It's happened to me. Even top quality cards fail, though very rarely. To state the endlessly posted and bleeding obvious, recording RAW to two cards is the simplest insurance imaginable.
> 
> Photographers who value their work be they enthusiast or professional will choose the two slot camera body every time. Thus, I don't have an RF body yet.
> ...



I once got a shot of an owl monkey poking its head out of a hole in a tree in the Ecuadorean Amazon. Super cool shot and rare species! Anyway the only sharp image had corrupt on the card... Wish I was using a 2 card body then!


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 14, 2019)

Really excited to find out what this 90D/7D3 replacement actually has to offer. I think the 10fps is fast enough for 7D users if it means better DR and also with the higher MP count. The only thing that seems “less 7D-ish” at the moment is the rumoured 45 point AF. Surely it’s not the same system that’s currently in the 80D?!


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## max_sr (Jul 14, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Really excited to find out what this 90D/7D3 replacement actually has to offer. I think the 10fps is fast enough for 7D users if it means better DR and also with the higher MP count. The only thing that seems “less 7D-ish” at the moment is the rumoured 45 point AF. Surely it’s not the same system that’s currently in the 80D?!



If it is the rumored 45 point system, you can bet it will be the same system as in the 80d.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 14, 2019)

max_sr said:


> If it is the rumored 45 point system, you can bet it will be the same system as in the 80d.



Which would be a strange choice.. Why not equip it with the old 7D2 system? It could be a totally new system that’s better at tracking and stuff but just happens to also have 45 points. We’ll see!


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 14, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> You may not get around the block much !! I'm hearing from photographers on forums, Facebook and Instagram who have been buying RF 85mm lenses. More than I anticipated to hear about. Sounds like the opposite of what you can afford*,* but totally in line with the purchasers are acquiring and sharing.
> 
> But when the EOS R was first released, I was suprised by how many photographers were buying the RF 50mm and not just the kit lens. I bought the RF 50mm and although it is not inexpensive, it's one of my favorite lenses and reminds me of the Zeiss Milvus 85mm I used to have for how nice the photos look. It may be that RF 85mm buyers share more on the internet, but regardless, there seems some fair movement with sales.


People buying the 85 are the few people that actually got money for the best of the best. Those are the the usual suspects. I could see the 50mm selling better or being important to many canon users in general because there hasnt had a very sharp, and fast accurate focus 50mm. also the FL is pretty versatile. A lot of reviews that praise it say hold out on the R if you can and wait for the pro body.


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## Hector1970 (Jul 14, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Really excited to find out what this 90D/7D3 replacement actually has to offer. I think the 10fps is fast enough for 7D users if it means better DR and also with the higher MP count. The only thing that seems “less 7D-ish” at the moment is the rumoured 45 point AF. Surely it’s not the same system that’s currently in the 80D?!


I too am curious what the 90D/7D3 replacement. I would have thought FPS is one of the main raison d'etres of the 7D series. I'd personally be very disappointed if the FPS is 10 or less. For me then it would be no 7D replacement at all. I would never say no to a better focussing system.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 14, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Curious if anyone who wants two cards for backup in case a card dies, is happy with the camera's ability to sync photos via Blutooth to a smart phone? I've tried it myself and it works but is a bit slow on my relatively old iPhone. I don't know if its faster on newer phones or if that speed difference make the difference between eliminating the need for two-card camera for anyone or not.


I lost photos of butterflies and orchids to a memory card failure while in lower Himalayas back in 2016. Luckily I always change cards every 24 hrs so I only lost photos shot in those 24 hrs but still it sucks and since then I havent had time to go back to same spot for those rare butterflies(oakleaf, silverlines and blues) or those orchids. Dual card slots a must for me these days and a reason why I am shooting on Nikon(D7200) more frequently these days.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 14, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> I lost photos of butterflies and orchids to a memory card failure while in lower Himalayas back in 2016. Luckily I always change cards every 24 hrs so I only lost photos shot in those 24 hrs but still it sucks and since then I havent had time to go back to same spot for those rare butterflies(oakleaf, silverlines and blues) or those orchids. Dual card slots a must for me these days and a reason why I am shooting on Nikon(D7200) more frequently these days.



My method of insurance is changing cards too! I prefer to use a few more 16gb or even 8gb cards opposed to 32 or 64s.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 14, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> I too am curious what the 90D/7D3 replacement. I would have thought FPS is one of the main raison d'etres of the 7D series. I'd personally be very disappointed if the FPS is 10 or less. For me then it would be no 7D replacement at all. I would never say no to a better focussing system.



What if the 10fps was a bit slower than anticipated to allow much better DR along with the increased megapixels though? Good trade off I would have thought?


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## Hector1970 (Jul 14, 2019)

2020 will be a critical year for Canon. They've had a stranglehold on the professional market for many years.
Their dominance at the Olympics / World Cup sidelines really cement their image as being number 1.
Sony are making alot of effort into this market. 
While we've got used to the click clack of cameras at events I can see more and more events / conventions insisting on mirrorless cameras.
At a Democratic debate a few months ago cameras unless silent were only allowed during applause.
Wimbledon I'm sure probably has strict rules.
Silent shooting is very handy for Wedding photographers too.
Photographing professionally you need double cards. Rare though it is I have had corrupted photographs. I've also had SD cards fall apart.
I'm probably a typical hard core Canon user. I'm heavily invested in Canon Lens.
These will last for many more years. My 3 cameras 5D IV, 5DSR and 7DII are all well used and battered at this stage.
I'm open to moving to Canon mirrorless. I'd be reluctant to add any more EF lens to the collection.
Future lens purchases would mean R lens.
If I were to switch to Sony then 2020 would be the year to do it and it would depend on what Canon bring out.
I'd get by with a Sony with a 70-200 / 24-70 lens set and use Canon for everything else.
Here's hoping Canon do bring a strong set of cameras in 2020 and I don't have to consider switching..


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## Hector1970 (Jul 14, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> What if the 10fps was a bit slower than anticipated to allow much better DR along with the increased megapixels though? Good trade off I would have thought?


I guess it all depends what you do with the camera. I do alot of sport with it. Increased MP isn't of huge interest. Better DR wouldn't bother me on a new 7D (would be more interested in this for landscape work with a full frame camera). Better high ISO performance would be important to me. More FPS would be very helpful.The 7DII was ordinary at higher ISO's even when it came out.
I could see for birding increased MP's would be desirable.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Jul 14, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> I guess it all depends what you do with the camera. I do alot of sport with it. Increased MP isn't of huge interest. Better DR wouldn't bother me on a new 7D (would be more interested in this for landscape work with a full frame camera). Better high ISO performance would be important to me. More FPS would be very helpful.The 7DII was ordinary at higher ISO's even when it came out.
> I could see for birding increased MP's would be desirable.


Yes for me as a birder, MP’s, dinamic range and low light performance are what I need. 10fps is plenty unless you’re shooting an osprey catching a fish or something. We shall see!


----------



## mb66energy (Jul 14, 2019)

*Canon EOS RS*: Would be interesting for me because it delivers ~24 MPix with APS-C crop and is compatible with the APS-C resolution of the M system: 70-200 f/4 on the RS as all purpose lens with FF / if I need longer effective focal range but not more resolution I switch to APS-C with 110-320mm effective focal length / the M50 with EF-M 32 for standard focal length. For me a promising 2-camera-setup for 99% of tasks: landscape, documentation, nature, moderate close-up and if you need high res ... always possible with FF and related lenses.

4k crop with 2x2 binning will be in the 1.2x territory which is acceptable and leaves room for electronic image stabilization. Not that I am in the NEED for 4k but I think this camera will cost 3500 &/€ and it should last at least 5 years.


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## serhatakbal (Jul 14, 2019)

Merhaba, canon bizi şaşırtacak ve 1DX Mark iii'de wifi ve bluetooth ekleyecek mi?


----------



## Woody (Jul 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> *EOS M*
> I don’t care much about the EOS M system, as I still believe it isn’t being taken seriously at Canon. We haven’t heard anything about new EOS M cameras in quite some time. An update of the EOS M5 would make sense around the launch of the EOS 90D, but we’re just guessing at this point.



I, on the other hand, only care about the EOS M system.


----------



## josephandrews222 (Jul 14, 2019)

...from the article: "I don’t care much about the EOS M system, as I still believe it isn’t being taken seriously at Canon."

Thanks for this--it supplies needed perspective (no snark intended!).


----------



## CanoKnight (Jul 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



So which model will have the 'most advanced' video technology (per Canon's standards) ?


----------



## Dreamwalker Photography (Jul 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


*Canon EOS-1D X Mark III*
I'm all onboard for the 1D X III. Despite transitioning to the Sony a9 for motor racing events, nothing beats the 1D X for wildlife, especially when the weather and conditions are cold, wet, and nasty or hot and dusty. Read: Svalbard, North Slope, Namibia. I've accidentally dunked my 1D X in frigid arctic water and used the others in pouring rain and blinding snow without a care or worry. Wouldn't try those weather conditions with the a9 for the love of money. However, when the weather is great, the 20fps of the a9 in complete silence is outstanding to behold, especially when compared to the machine gun firing of the 1D XII at 14fps.

*Canon EOS RX*
The RX is, for me at least, too little, too late. I have too much investment in Sony at this point, given they're just released two new supertelephotos. I worked the Chevrolet IndyCar Detroit Grand Prix this year and even limited to the Sony 100-400mm and the 70-200, I never missed my 1D X II (though the thunderstorm on the first day's afternoon gave me concern, but since the Marshalls evacuated the track, I missed nothing).

*Canon RS*
For me, this is a real hair-puller as I love my 5DSR for landscapes. It was also my preferred body for studio model photography (art nude, implied nude, full nude, adult) but this camera was set aside with the advent of the Sony a7RIII with facial focus and eye-capture. Besides, don't need weather-resistance in a studio. LOL

It's something to consider, and I would probably rent one and put it through it's paces. Landscape photography can see pretty crappy weather too, and my 5DSR has never complained. With my large stable of EF lenses, any performance reduction seen by using the adapter wouldn't matter in landscape. 60mp might justify trying out a few RF lenses.

*EOS M*
These were my first mirrorless, and I bought the M, M2, M3, M5, and M6...with all the Canon glass. Now Sigma announced three (3) lenses for the M-mount, so apparently somebody believes—if not Canon—in this camera. They'll never be a prime camera for me, but in a hip holster they weigh next to nothing and can be in my hand in seconds.

Yes, I probably will spring for the new one, depending upon the specs.


----------



## Chaitanya (Jul 14, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> My method of insurance is changing cards too! I prefer to use a few more 16gb or even 8gb cards opposed to 32 or 64s.


These days its getting harder to get 16GB cards and seems like 64GB is getting bare minimum for faster uhs-ii cards. I tend to use 32GB cards and even if I dont fill 6-7GB in a day and 32 GB cards are quite reasonable and reliable.


----------



## Etienne (Jul 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I honestly don't care about the EOS M system.  I've updated the post and now mention the EOS M system.
> That said, I haven't heard anything for quite some time about new cameras for the system. It would make sense to come at the same time as the EOS 90D.



I'm the opposite. I've sold my 5D3 and most of my L lenses. I've kept my M6 and EF-M lenses because they are small, inexpensive, light and do a decent job on photos. The RF line of cameras don't measure up, and are not showing any sign of being competitive within the next 3 years and the cinema line is going big, heavy and expensive, the XC cameras appear to be abandonned, and the XF400 is beaten on all measures by Sony
The M system represents the only thing left that interests me from Canon.
I really hope they go all in with the M5 Mark II, but to be honest, Canon's expertise is at disappointing the small time video producers lately. They wowed us with the 5D2, then went to sleep on video, even regressed a lot with recent releases.


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## canonical (Jul 14, 2019)

Philrp said:


> EOS M rumor?
> I'm still hoping for an M version of the 90D with an R mount ;O)



will not happen. EF-M is here to stay for many years to come. I fully expect M5/M6 successor/s still in 2019. And M50 Mk. II in first half of 2020. Hope Canon will use same form factor with pop-up EVF as in G5X II for M5 II and M50 II as well.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> These days its getting harder to get 16GB cards and seems like 64GB is getting bare minimum for faster uhs-ii cards. I tend to use 32GB cards and even if I dont fill 6-7GB in a day and 32 GB cards are quite reasonable and reliable.


Not really. I bought a 128GB SD card last night but had the choice of dozens of options below 64GB, heck you could still get a 1GB card for pennies along with lots of 8 and 16 GB options.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 14, 2019)

pwp said:


> Photographers who value their work be they enthusiast or professional will choose the two slot camera body every time.


Yeah, back in film days I bought one of these:







I figured two lenses meant it would take shots to two rolls of film at once, as insurance. Imagine my disappointment.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2019)

pwp said:


> Who needs two card slots? It's like a car driver saying, "Who needs seat-belts and airbags or insurance? I've never had a crash..."
> Just wait till you have to call a soon to be ex-client saying there was a memory card fail and we've got no shots. It's happened to me. Even top quality cards fail, though very rarely. To state the endlessly posted and bleeding obvious, recording RAW to two cards is the simplest insurance imaginable.
> 
> Photographers who value their work be they enthusiast or professional will choose the two slot camera body every time. Thus, I don't have an RF body yet.
> ...


Race car drivers don’t have airbags or insurance and they get in more accidents, so it’s really a poor analogy, but they use good seatbelts that they maintain properly.

I have had two card cameras for years and basically never use them to ‘backup’ my images, on rare occasions I might use them for different things for different purposes but, personally, I don’t like the limitations Canon impose on most of their dual card cameras.


----------



## sdz (Jul 14, 2019)

canonical said:


> will not happen. EF-M is here to stay for many years to come. I fully expect M5/M6 successor/s still in 2019. And M50 Mk. II in first half of 2020. Hope Canon will use same form factor with pop-up EVF as in G5X II for M5 II and M50 II as well.



I doubt the M mount will disappear. Eventually, Canon will replace its Point and Shoot and APS-C cameras with mirrorless versions. The M mount would come into its own when that happens. The transition might take years.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 14, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Race car drivers don’t have airbags or insurance and they get in more accidents, so it’s really a poor analogy, but they use good seatbelts that they maintain properly.
> 
> I have had two card cameras for years and basically never use them to ‘backup’ my images, on rare occasions I might use them for different things for different purposes but, personally, I don’t like the limitations Canon impose on most of their dual card cameras.


Just curious, but what limitations are you talking about?


----------



## peters (Jul 14, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> 2020 will be a critical year for Canon. They've had a stranglehold on the professional market for many years.
> Their dominance at the Olympics / World Cup sidelines really cement their image as being number 1.
> Sony are making alot of effort into this market.
> While we've got used to the click clack of cameras at events I can see more and more events / conventions insisting on mirrorless cameras.
> ...


I wonder: why cant (or wont) they include a silent mode in dslrs? If I shoot in live view, why is there still a need for the shutter or mirror to move?


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jul 14, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> People buying the 85 are the few people that actually got money for the best of the best. Those are the the usual suspects. I could see the 50mm selling better or being important to many canon users in general because there hasnt had a very sharp, and fast accurate focus 50mm. also the FL is pretty versatile. A lot of reviews that praise it say hold out on the R if you can and wait for the pro body.



Available financing can erase the basis of the money speculation. Either way, I find no shortage of people buying the RF 85 or RF 50. The lens I read about people purchasing less often is the 28-70mm. But either way, there's no less than 2 ways to buy them. All the money at one time, or easy payments over a number of months.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2019)

navastronia said:


> Just curious, but what limitations are you talking about?


Apart from the 1DX which uses two same type CF cards all Canon duals card slot cameras have different types of cards, this leads to different read and write speeds. I noticed early on if I wrote to two cards with my 1DS MkIII’s using the SD slot meant I couldn’t realize the CF slot speed. Same with the 1DX MKII and the CF slot to CFast slot. 

It might sound silly but when the camera slows down you notice it and personally I’ll take the speed with the one card every time, I have missed way more moments over my career from me or the camera not being ready than I have ever lost to card corruption, indeed to neuro’s point about films, I lost way more film to processing scratches and misplaced rolls than I ever have to corrupt or lost cards. I just don’t buy in to this ‘serious amateurs and pros need to write to two cards’ idea.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 14, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Not really. I bought a 128GB SD card last night but had the choice of dozens of options below 64GB, heck you could still get a 1GB card for pennies along with lots of 8 and 16 GB options.


I am talking about the cards that you can rely on, I have quite a lot of cheap Sandisk Ultra and extreme series cards lying around here and there(just so I dont end up leaving memory cards back home). In general trend among memory card makers seems to be dropping smaller capacity cards with each new release for their faster series that comes out.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Jul 14, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> 2020 will be a critical year for Canon. They've had a stranglehold on the professional market for many years.
> Their dominance at the Olympics / World Cup sidelines really cement their image as being number 1.
> Sony are making alot of effort into this market.
> While we've got used to the click clack of cameras at events I can see more and more events / conventions insisting on mirrorless cameras.
> ...


never heard this outlook. i see no responses i guess you have the people here shook.


Dreamwalker Photography said:


> *Canon EOS-1D X Mark III*
> I'm all onboard for the 1D X III. Despite transitioning to the Sony a9 for motor racing events, nothing beats the 1D X for wildlife, especially when the weather and conditions are cold, wet, and nasty or hot and dusty. Read: Svalbard, North Slope, Namibia. I've accidentally dunked my 1D X in frigid arctic water and used the others in pouring rain and blinding snow without a care or worry. Wouldn't try those weather conditions with the a9 for the love of money. However, when the weather is great, the 20fps of the a9 in complete silence is outstanding to behold, especially when compared to the machine gun firing of the 1D XII at 14fps.
> 
> *Canon EOS RX*
> ...


So Canon's only good for reliability in harsh weather and environments at this point.


----------



## mb66energy (Jul 14, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Yeah, back in film days I bought one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



... and no stereo images if rotated by 90° around the optical axis ...


----------



## navastronia (Jul 14, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Apart from the 1DX which uses two same type CF cards all Canon duals card slot cameras have different types of cards, this leads to different read and write speeds. I noticed early on if I wrote to two cards with my 1DS MkIII’s using the SD slot meant I couldn’t realize the CF slot speed. Same with the 1DX MKII and the CF slot to CFast slot.
> 
> It might sound silly but when the camera slows down you notice it and personally I’ll take the speed with the one card every time, I have missed way more moments over my career from me or the camera not being ready than I have ever lost to card corruption, indeed to neuro’s point about films, I lost way more film to processing scratches and misplaced rolls than I ever have to corrupt or lost cards. I just don’t buy in to this ‘serious amateurs and pros need to write to two cards’ idea.


Ah, I get it now. That does make sense. When I invest in the R ecosystem, I plan to do so with the highest end body they have, which will, I hope, feature 2 identical card slots, thus avoiding the problem you describe.


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## davidhfe (Jul 14, 2019)

Maximilian said:


> Oh, Canon, please give me a EOS R5, or what you would call it.



My expectation/hope is that the RS will exceed the 5D4's frame rate at full resolution. The 5D4 is, honestly, pretty slow by current standards. I wouldn't expect it to top 10fps at 60mp or anything, but 8fps would be 480mp/s, in the ballpark as the 420mp/s of the A7R3, which is coming up on 2 years old. An A7R4 will likely bump that up as well. Canon would _really_ have to push the MP count to the stratosphere (75+?) in order to justify a 7fps frame rate on a mirrorless in 2020.

Other than FPS, I don't know what an "R5" would offer over an RS, and the 5D4 is already fast enough for most event work. Anything faster, and you'l be in RX territory. I think the base "R" series will become the "all-rounder" when it hits mk2 (and as it's a first-gen product, I'm certainly hoping for a faster-than normal refresh cycle)


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## YuengLinger (Jul 14, 2019)

We cannot buy what they do not sell.


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## sanj (Jul 15, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Yeah, back in film days I bought one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absurd comparison.


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## sanj (Jul 15, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Personally, the only reason to switch completely to mirrorless Canon is for the lenses, at this point.


Agree


----------



## canonical (Jul 15, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> We cannot buy what they do not sell.


precisely. the only reason why transition to mirrorfree gear has not happened much faster and much earlier. more than enough demand. not nearly enough supply of right gear at sensible prices.

current situation is about 50-80% of what users want at 150-300% of fair price.

just watch how well stuff sells, when makers do offer things that many users want, like decent, small and inexpensive APS-C gear: Canon EOS M50 and EF-M lenses for example.

market niche of those willing and able to buy f/1.2 lenses or f/2 zooms, ART bricks or GrandMaster flash lenses at 2, 3 or more grand a pop is really small. minority interest.

or the weird obsession with 4k video in each camera. not needed by 80% of all potential buyers, challenged enough capturing a halfway decent stills image. they wont ever be movie directors or cinematographers. not by a mile. industry would ve well advised to offer separate video/cine vs stills gear with only a few "convergence" products in between. rather than struggling to put some crippled video capture into each and every device.


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## dtaylor (Jul 15, 2019)

canonical said:


> precisely. the only reason why transition to mirrorfree gear has not happened much faster and much earlier. more than enough demand. not nearly enough supply of really right gear at sensible prices.



I get so tired of this meme.

Mirrorless ILCs are a decade old now. Until very recently they have suffered from AF, EVF, and battery life issues. To some extent they still do, although the differences are much smaller now and in some use cases tilt towards MILCs. That is not a conspiracy nor is it a failure of Canon/Nikon/whoever to 'read the market.' It has taken that long to work out the technology. Rome was not built in a day. I've kept my eye on Sony since the first FF MILCs, and every generation, including the current one, has had a fatal flaw. The tech *still* isn't as mature as DSLRs and is *still* being worked out and improved. It's much better now than it was. But the point is that this stuff takes time. Neither Canon nor Nikon wanted to stop you from buying a mirror free camera from them.

A minority of very vocal mirrorless fans, along with some of the press, have been clamoring for MILCs to 'takeover the market' and 'kill the mirror slappers' practically since 2008. The rest of the market has been quietly buying DSLRs and waiting for the tech to mature.



> just watch how well stuff sells, when makers do offer things that many users want, like decent, small and inexpensive APS-C gear: Canon EOS M50 and EF-M lenses for example.



The M line fulfills a promise of mirrorless and a niche: really small, lightweight ILC system with relatively high IQ. I still have my original M, and it's still my "grab-n-go' camera with either the 22mm f/2 or surprisingly good 18-55 IS. But there's a whole list of features and use cases where it can't touch the 7D or 5Ds. Granted it was Canon's first attempt, but nothing else in production that same year could touch them either.



> market niche of those willing and able to buy f/1.2 lenses or f/2 zooms, ART bricks or GrandMaster flash lenses at 2, 3 or more grand a pop is really small. minority interest.



And a profitable one.


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## Kit. (Jul 15, 2019)

sdz said:


> I doubt the M mount will disappear. Eventually, Canon will replace its Point and Shoot and APS-C cameras with mirrorless versions.


Are Canon's P&S cameras not mirrorless yet?

Or are you suggesting that the customers will be fine with replacing their mountfree cameras with mountflappers, for all this added size, weight and cost?


----------



## tron (Jul 15, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Slow and I believe JPEGS only.


JPEGS only is useless for me. We get these cameras for their raw capabilities. By the way I would like this feature (in RAW) for their DSLR cameras too.


----------



## tron (Jul 15, 2019)

Right now there are many very good DSLR bodies with the very good EF lenses at reasonable prices so why rush? 24=70 2.8L II, 85mm 1.4L IS are more than good enough and cost less than half of RF28-70 f/2 and RF85 1.2


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## sid.safari (Jul 15, 2019)

As a wildlife photographer give me the 1dx iii with significant improvements in DR, autofocus point coverage and a minor bump in fps and I'm happy. Except for the A9 there is no mirrorless system that can compete with the DSLR at the moment for wildlife. Eye autofocus for animals moving through foliage or doing something unexpected is simply not good enough. Wildlife is unforgiving when it comes to getting the shot. We can't recompose or ask models to repeat a move...we also can't control weather. Reliability is everything when you are in a jungle or in the Arctic. Canon has proven reliability and performance with the 1Dx for decades. I don't think a EVF and some gimmicky autofocus will be enough to turn wildlife photographers to the mirrorless revolutions...

But...new exciting lens might. If a 400mm RF with built in dual extenders comes in -- than maybe it will worth the switch. Till than give me something reliable and built like a tank. When I'm in the field I need something that won't let me down not something a youtuber thinks is the next cool thing.


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## Stitch (Jul 15, 2019)

victorshikhman said:


> Ouch. Don't care? Not something one would expect from a Canon fan site.



I agree.
Canon Rumors says it doesn't care about the M system because Canon doesn't seem to care. Well, on the other hand when you look at the messages on this forum it looks like the M system generates a lot of interest. A good proportion of CR readers do care about the M system. And the sales prove it as well.

If every single media only talks about what they think Canon cares about, well, then it's a closed loop and it will be hard for Canon to know what their customers want ;-)


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## YuengLinger (Jul 15, 2019)

The only advantages of the R over the 5DIV that I see, apart from the buffer, are 1) A couple of great new lenses, 2) Doing away with AFMA, and 3) More AF points for, supposedly, easier composition.

No, I haven't used the R, but I can see that it does not appeal to me ergonomically at all because of the layout of the controls. 

Canon pulled a fast one here by getting photographers excited about "potential" and a few amazing lenses ready right now. But did anybody get excited about the R camera itself?

That's why I, and, presumably other photographers, see the R as a something of a promise of better to come, a placeholder to buy time, and a prototype which allows Canon to have consumers pay for a lot of R&D. (And it gives the repair techs good training with FF mirrorless.) This is solid, clever, and even admirable business acumen.

Will the next release of a FF mirrorless have some EVF breakthrough that reduces the lag that makes it difficult for action/sports? Will it have a sensor that allows for no (or much less) 4K cropping?

(Yes, 4k seems to practical photographers an unnecessary feature, but many customers already have 4k TVs, so they likely imagine how awful it would be to have a shiny new camera that doesn't match the native resolution of their displays at home...)

An interesting couple of years ahead for photographers and the industry!


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## tron (Jul 15, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> The only advantages of the R over the 5DIV that I see, apart from the buffer, are 1) A couple of great new lenses, 2) Doing away with AFMA, and 3) More AF points for, supposedly, easier composition.
> 
> No, I haven't used the R, but I can see that it does not appeal to me ergonomically at all because of the layout of the controls.
> 
> ...


I (fully) agree about the ergonomic issue and the EVF lag. Let's also include and other disadvantages like the one card and the battery consumption. Plus the need to use converter to put our good L lenses  I wouldn't change my 5DIV for EOS R and I would get a 5DV but I am afraid I am a minority. We'll see....


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## Architect1776 (Jul 15, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



I just ask for a good solid performing mid range R camera with IBIS.
1 or 2 slots, I don't care.
35-40 MP sensor
7-8 FPS
Weather sealed to the level of the 7D series.
Just a good mid-range, does not need millions of bells and whistles.
Video with today's technology should be 8K and be FF, 4K is so last year and lame now.
A decent DR but if within 1/2 stop as it is now with others is good enough as I have a habit of properly exposing my photos and don't go around under exposing by 15 stops as some do.
The biggest thing though is a top notch IBIS that works with all attachments like telescopes, bellows and any other non-Canon EF or R lens mounted on it.


----------



## Otara (Jul 15, 2019)

The R is mostly a scaled up M5 with some new ideas about interface - instead of an 80D sensor, its a 5DIV. Its not so much a placeholder as a pricepoint.

There's going to be better. It will be priced accordingly I suspect.


----------



## Danglin52 (Jul 15, 2019)

My background is technology and I typically review my technologies once a year to determine if they are doing the job or if it is time to upgrade. As many of you on this forum, I went through the transition from film to digital buying into each new generation of camera - 10d, 20d, 30d, 1ds all the way up through my current 1dx II & 5dIV. For the small price of a few $1,000 dollars every couple of years I got increasingly better gear that may/may not have allowed me to take better photographs. I see mirrorless as the same type of evolution moving from a hybrid electronic/mechanical DSLR to an all digital solution with the benefit of a CPU onboard for computational computing. The end result should be a robust all digital platform with very few moving parts (Battery & card door) and the ability to add new features and capabilities through software. I was hoping the R would at least match the capabilities of my 5dIV with reasonable ergonomics, but unfortunately I was disappointed. I don't see anything from Canon YET that would make me go through the expense of buying new mirrorless every couple of years until I have a camera that matches my current DSLR's. The only company that even comes close on the mirrorless promise at the higher end is Sony, maybe Fuji & Panasonic. Unfortunately, Sony support & user interface, and long lens selection are not that great. I broke my own rule on the on the M5 knowing it was not there yet and bought when it first hit the market. I really like the little guy, but it needs an overall performance improvement especially the AF. I will definitely buy version II if overall throughput and AF are significantly improved. The bottom line for me is that while mirrorless can probably meet 75-85% of the need for most photographers, I am not in a hurry to move to mirrorless until it offers benefits over my current gear. I may buy an R once it matches my 5dIV capabilities & ergonomics (joy stick, no slider) just for fun. Sony and Nikon have better mirrorless/sensors at this time, but I don't think it makes that much difference when you factor in Canon glass. BTW - my focus is nature and wildlife


----------



## PinSharp (Jul 15, 2019)

"I don’t care much about the EOS M system "
Surely the EOS M has a high potential to surpass the XXD line in the coming years.


----------



## Canon1966 (Jul 15, 2019)

I would be happy with a mirrorless 5DV with IBIS, EVF and articulating screen.


----------



## IWLP (Jul 15, 2019)

PinSharp said:


> "I don’t care much about the EOS M system "
> Surely the EOS M has a high potential to surpass the XXD line in the coming years.



But you have to finish the quote



> ... as I still believe it isn’t being taken seriously at Canon.



So yes, it has that potential, but only if Canon sees that potential and leverages it. Good bodies, not leftover sensors and more glass options. 

But what I'd really like Canon to do is to come out with a 5D Mark V and an EOS RX/Y/∞ with close to the same feature set. Yes, put the mirrorless-specific goodies in the R, but let the market decide what is right for them. Basically, a mirrorless and an SLR version of the same camera, with features tailored to their physical platform.

After shooting a 6D II and an R side by side, there's ups and downs to both. However, if Canon dangled a 5D V and an EOS R(Next) in front of me with same sensor and cutting-edge tech specific to their platform, I'd likely buy one of each.


----------



## Rivermist (Jul 15, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> I get so tired of this meme.
> 
> Mirrorless ILCs are a decade old now. Until very recently they have suffered from AF, EVF, and battery life issues. To some extent they still do, although the differences are much smaller now and in some use cases tilt towards MILCs. That is not a conspiracy nor is it a failure of Canon/Nikon/whoever to 'read the market.' It has taken that long to work out the technology. Rome was not built in a day. I've kept my eye on Sony since the first FF MILCs, and every generation, including the current one, has had a fatal flaw. The tech *still* isn't as mature as DSLRs and is *still* being worked out and improved. It's much better now than it was. But the point is that this stuff takes time. Neither Canon nor Nikon wanted to stop you from buying a mirror free camera from them.
> 
> ...



Very good points all, and I agree about technical maturity being the real issue. I am perplexed by the attention given to one memory card only, for me the breakthrough will be IBIS, which opens up so many possibilities to use some of the new RF ultra bright non-IS lenses in low light situations (28-70 being one of them). My RP is proving a very valuable companion to the 5D MkIII even with its lower-grade EVF, but IBIS would be the trigger to replacing the 5D, or at least relegating it to 3rd body status.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 15, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> I get so tired of this meme.


It's just a new incarnation of AvTvM, obviously.


----------



## BillB (Jul 15, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> The only advantages of the R over the 5DIV that I see, apart from the buffer, are 1) A couple of great new lenses, 2) Doing away with AFMA, and 3) More AF points for, supposedly, easier composition.
> 
> No, I haven't used the R, but I can see that it does not appeal to me ergonomically at all because of the layout of the controls.
> 
> ...


Well put. For some people, the R is good enough to buy, for others not. It is good enough for some use cases, but not all. A lot depends on what your use cases are, and what equipment you have. I have a 5DIV and that is enough for me for right now.


----------



## eli452 (Jul 15, 2019)

Personally, I'm waiting for Rxs (Rx + Rs in one body) or is it excess?


----------



## Rivermist (Jul 15, 2019)

BillB said:


> Well put. For some people, the R is good enough to buy, for others not. It is good enough for some use cases, but not all. A lot depends on what your use cases are, and what equipment you have. I have a 5DIV and that is enough for me for right now.


Fair points, let me elaborate on some benefits I see using the RP (so extensible to the R): With the availability of in-viewfinder 3 color histograms, I have very few rejects due to lighting problems as a result of not only exposure simulation but also the histograms. The Fv mode makes managing exposure so much simpler, I never need to go to M or other modes, just play around with the 4 variables. When switching to manual focus (very rare as the DPAF is so reliable) I get an outline of all the in-focus elements in the picture as I rotate the focus ring. The programmable ring is a great feature on RF lenses, I mostly use it for exposure compensation. No mirror slap, I have taken great pictures at 1/10 with the EF IS lenses using adapters, on the 5D using the same lenses I need to use a monopod or more to avoid the tremor of the mirror. Discrete photography mode, hiding the read screen by reversing it, I have full control and some review capabilities in the EVF, making the camera less conscious in low light situations. Some of these points may not be important to other photographers but they are far from trivial to me.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 15, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> I never need to go to M or other modes, just play around with the 4 variables.



What four variables, exposures are made up of three variables aren't they?


----------



## Kit. (Jul 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> What four variables, exposures are made up of three variables aren't they?


_Exposures_ are made up of two _independent_ variables.

"Autoexposure" introduces two more variables, but they are codependent.


----------



## steve oakley (Jul 15, 2019)

I gave up on Canon and moved on. Canon doesn't get it, and simply wants to give the market what canon wants, when they want to. While I'm quite happy with my C300-2, I sold off my still camera bodies and moved to Fuji XT3. Totally and utterly don't care about or per se like using "full frame" because its just not worth the extra hassle and problems. S35 / APS C is perfectly good and a real sweet spot especially for video purposes. shooting in FF means stopping the lens down another stop or so just to have a little margin in focus, which means more lighting, or higher ISO to compensate. Not a good set of trade offs.


----------



## rom (Jul 15, 2019)

I actually like the EOS R. It's perfect for my needs (family, vacation and every day life). I sold my 5D mark IV incl. lenses to get a nice complete digital system without mirror. Reverse the screen and its protected, when you put it in the backpack. Fold it out and you have a nice "point and shoot" camera at your hand.
I'm not a pro or earning money by taking photos. I can see there might be some shortcomings compared to Canon's pro line. But for people like me its a better camera that the 5D


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 15, 2019)

Kit. said:


> _Exposures_ are made up of two _independent_ variables.
> 
> "Autoexposure" introduces two more variables, but they are codependent.


Please elaborate.

An exposure, as I understand it, is a collection of photons, you can vary the time you take to collect the photons (shutterspeed), you can make the hole the photons go through bigger or smaller to alter the number of photons per time (aperture), and you can vary the number of photons you consider needed for a given exposure (ISO).


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## privatebydesign (Jul 15, 2019)

steve oakley said:


> shooting in FF means stopping the lens down another stop or so just to have a little margin in focus, which means more lighting, or higher ISO to compensate. Not a good set of trade offs.


Amazing that people still don’t have a clue about equivalence. Not a dig at you, just a rebuttal against your very misplaced comment, I’d hate people to think it’s true.


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## koenkooi (Jul 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> What four variables, exposures are made up of three variables aren't they?



the 'Fv' mode lets you tweak shutter speed, aperture, ISO and exposure compensation. So 4 knobs for what people call an 'exposure triangle'.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 15, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> the 'Fv' mode lets you tweak shutter speed, aperture, ISO and exposure compensation. So 4 knobs for what people call an 'exposure triangle'.


Yes and that is my point. How is moving four things easier than moving three things? Exposure compensation *is* moving one, or more, of the other three.


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## koenkooi (Jul 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Yes and that is my point. How is moving four things easier than moving three things?



From my limited use of Fv mode, I think the point is you can (re)set any of the knobs to auto, so switching from auto-aperture to auto-shutterspeed is a click of the back wheel and a press of a button. So you can 'fake' Av, Tv, P, etc if needed using Fv. Kinda like a poor version of C1, C2, C3.


----------



## rosstcorbett (Jul 15, 2019)

Very excited about the potential new bodies but right now I'm desperate to hear more about the release of the new RF 15-35mm. It's gone very quiet on this subject. Will this still be released in July?


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 15, 2019)

rosstcorbett said:


> Very excited about the potential new bodies but right now I'm desperate to hear more about the release of the new RF 15-35mm. It's gone very quiet on this subject. Will this still be released in July?



Canon never gave a date more precise than '2019' for that one.


----------



## Rixy (Jul 15, 2019)

I already want to see the 90D, my next camera


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## Rivermist (Jul 15, 2019)

Kit. said:


> _Exposures_ are made up of two _independent_ variables.
> 
> "Autoexposure" introduces two more variables, but they are codependent.


Yes correct but you access Shutter, Aperture, Exposure Correction and ISO in Fv mode. Any of the Shutter, Aperture and ISO can be set to automatic (indicated by a white bar underlining that variable) or fixed at a set value, you do that by moving the control of that variable to the selector. Exposure Correction can also be assigned to the selector, or changed using e.g. the new ring on RF lenses. The RP seems to often need exposure correction, mostly towards overexposure relative to the automatic value(s). Live histogram in the viewfinder is a precious ally in effecting such corrections.


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## slclick (Jul 15, 2019)

steve oakley said:


> I gave up on Canon and moved on. Canon doesn't get it, and simply wants to give the market what canon wants, when they want to. While I'm quite happy with my C300-2, I sold off my still camera bodies and moved to Fuji XT3. Totally and utterly don't care about or per se like using "full frame" because its just not worth the extra hassle and problems. S35 / APS C is perfectly good and a real sweet spot especially for video purposes. shooting in FF means stopping the lens down another stop or so just to have a little margin in focus, which means more lighting, or higher ISO to compensate. Not a good set of trade offs.


Hassles and problems.... ok. Some might say benefits and joys


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## mpmark (Jul 15, 2019)

navastronia said:


> I think the consensus is that professional photographers are already shooting with cameras that fulfill their basic needs (like a 5D III or IV, or a 1DX mark ii), so why rush? They're invested in the Canon ecosystem already, with loads of L glass that will work perfectly on an R body when they want to get one, so what's the hurry? I don't think people really want to switch brands as much as we talk about it happening. It's a pain in the butt to do so.



Exactly, what is everyone's rush? I'm using a 5Div, have all L glass and I'm perfectly happy. Image quality is all I need, honestly the glass is what delivers the images for me, unless you can consistently put up a large print and say oh that's from this camera system or this camera system, which today is almost impossible than what are we really waiting for? What should I switch to another camera system for?

If you're looking for a reason to set off dopamine to get excited about buying something new and setting off your neurotransmitters temporarily then by all means spend your money.

Most important thing for me is that this system delivers what I need and that's all I need. I'm less of a gear head and use my tools to get the job done.


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## MintChocs (Jul 15, 2019)

Whilst I can see there are advantages of the R mount, I have too much invested in EF glass. At the moment I don’t see enough of an improvement in using mirrorless to switch, as I shoot as a hobby. I hope a 6dmkiii or a 5Dmkv come out for an upgrade in the future.


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## unfocused (Jul 15, 2019)

mpmark said:


> Exactly, what is everyone's rush? I'm using a 5Div, have all L glass and I'm perfectly happy. Image quality is all I need, honestly the glass is what delivers the images for me, unless you can consistently put up a large print and say oh that's from this camera system or this camera system, which today is almost impossible than what are we really waiting for? What should I switch to another camera system for?
> 
> If you're looking for a reason to set off dopamine to get excited about buying something new and setting off your neurotransmitters temporarily then by all means spend your money.
> 
> Most important thing for me is that this system delivers what I need and that's all I need. I'm less of a gear head and use my tools to get the job done.



You don't have to be a "gear head" or want a dopamine rush to buy an R.

There are perfectly sensible reasons to add the body to your toolbox. 

In my case, the R was the tool I needed to get certain jobs done. The "silent" shutter on the 1Dx II is simply too loud in some situations. I needed a body I could pair with the 5DIV for those cases where I need to be unobtrusive while shooting. After renting an R, I found I really liked some of the other features (The ability to move focus points anywhere using a simple thumb swipe and the ability to change ISO using the control ring are two examples.) Would I use it to shoot sports, when I've got the 1Dx? No. But, would I be interested in a true 1D mirrorless to replace the 1DX II? Absolutely.


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## Eersel (Jul 15, 2019)

Whatever the full pro version of the EOS R is. 
Hoping for 36 MP BSI
IBIS 
7+ FPS in all AF Scenarios

Don't really care for anything else.


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## Kit. (Jul 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Please elaborate.
> 
> An exposure, as I understand it, is a collection of photons,


There is some confusion because in photography, two different things are called "exposure".

What you describe is _photometric exposure_, and it's just one variable. What's even worse, it's different for different parts of the sensor, depending on which scene you are shooting.

What I describe is two-variable _camera exposure_, the amount of time (shutter speed) and solid angle (aperture) you want your sensor to expose to photons from. It can be combined into a single exposure value (EV), which can be used to convert scene luminance into photometric exposure of the sensor.


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## NeverPlayMonopoly (Jul 15, 2019)

90D is getting bought by yours truly. Upgrading from an original 7d. Every time Capture One updates, the banding in the recovered shadows for that body gets a little worse. Which makes absolutely no sense to me. It'll probably be the last digital camera I buy.


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## YuengLinger (Jul 15, 2019)

We definitely don't need to disparage somebody for buying the R, as some of the posts here seem to be doing. (That said, when somebody for months declares they have all the gear they need, their wife won't let them buy more, they don't have the money...And then suddenly goes all in on the R and lenses, a little good natured teasing seems inevitable. And deserved!  )

But how many enthusiastic photographers would be buying the R body if not for the rf 50mm f/1.2L, the massive 28-70mm f/2L, or the newest 85mm 1.2L? A few, I suppose, but harder to understand if a 5DIV or something similar is already in the gear bag.

If somebody is intrigued by the R, wants the lenses RIGHT NOW, or just thinks the R is the future, forget about legacy EF, enjoy, do the early adopter necessities for the rest of us, and _please start sharing more samples! _


----------



## slclick (Jul 15, 2019)

I applaud all those both buying cameras and those shooting with what they have...both scenarios are great and infighting amongst photography enthusiasts is paid for and brought to you by 'Internet', 'Providing courage behind the keyboard since 1989'


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## unfocused (Jul 15, 2019)

Eersel said:


> Whatever the full pro version of the EOS R is.
> Hoping for 36 MP BSI
> IBIS
> 7+ FPS in all AF Scenarios
> ...


I think a lot of people are merging the "RS" and the "RX" bodies in their minds.

I would not expect the "RX" to have 36MP. I would not be at all surprised if it has the same or similar MP as the "R," but with a higher frame rate, autofocus improvements, more robust build, 1D battery, etc., that differentiates the 1 series from the 5 series in DSLRs. It will probably share the same sensor as the 1DX III. Simply moving from 20 to 30 mp would be an impressive leap.

The "RS" is almost certainly going to exceed the 50 mp of the 5D s. 

I also expect that the "RS" will have IBIS, but I'm not counting on the "RX" having it. Canon may not feel comfortable putting IBIS in a body that has to be bombproof.


----------



## BillB (Jul 15, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> We definitely don't need to disparage somebody for buying the R, as some of the posts here seem to be doing. (That said, when somebody for months declares they have all the gear they need, their wife won't let them buy more, they don't have the money...And then suddenly goes all in on the R and lenses, a little good natured teasing seems inevitable. And deserved!  )
> 
> But how many enthusiastic photographers would be buying the R body if not for the rf 50mm f/1.2L, the massive 28-70mm f/2L, or the newest 85mm 1.2L? A few, I suppose, but harder to understand if a 5DIV or something similar is already in the gear bag.
> 
> If somebody is intrigued by the R, wants the lenses RIGHT NOW, or just thinks the R is the future, forget about legacy EF, enjoy, do the early adopter necessities for the rest of us, and _please start sharing more samples! _


I doubt that all that many sales are motivated specifically by the RF f2 zooms or the RF f1.2 primes. The top end RF lenses may be a factor for some, but I suspect that for most the decision is more motivated by the belief that the R or the RP delivers on the use cases that are important to them, along with the desire to start exploring Canon's FF mirrorless equipment.


----------



## rbielefeld (Jul 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Amazing that people still don’t have a clue about equivalence. Not a dig at you, just a rebuttal against your very misplaced comment, I’d hate people to think it’s true.


Thank you!


----------



## dtaylor (Jul 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Amazing that people still don’t have a clue about equivalence. Not a dig at you, just a rebuttal against your very misplaced comment, I’d hate people to think it’s true.



Eh...there are situations where you give up most/all of the FF light gathering advantage for DoF. You're never at a disadvantage but you don't always get the full advantage either.

APS-C is a very capable format but I don't totally agree with Steve Oakley. When you can take full advantage of the light gathering capability of FF the low light IQ is phenomenal. And high resolution FF (42/45/50mp) is a joy to work with. FF can definitely deliver higher IQ. But we've come so far in digital tech that for most use cases APS-C is quite capable of getting the job done.

Still, as cool as the Fuji system is, it wouldn't necessarily pull me from Canon for stills even if I was APS-C only. Video however...I've mentioned before that I'm tempted to add Fuji for video.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Amazing that people still don’t have a clue about equivalence. Not a dig at you, just a rebuttal against your very misplaced comment, I’d hate people to think it’s true.


Isn’t it fun when people don’t understand the trade offs, but also don’t even bother to question the fact that having choices is generally better than not having them?


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jul 16, 2019)

Eersel said:


> Whatever the full pro version of the EOS R is.
> Hoping for 36 MP BSI
> IBIS
> 7+ FPS in all AF Scenarios
> ...



i was surprised to learn yesterday about a recent firmware update further boosting FPS for photography, plus improvement for face or eye tracking in video mode.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jul 16, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Isn’t it fun when people don’t understand the trade offs, but also don’t even bother to question the fact that having choices is generally better than not having them?


Absolutely agree. I ran 1.6x crop and Full frame along side each other for a number of years. So I could lever the advantages of both. The 1.6x crop stuff is lighter and generally smaller for the same equivalence and that's a consideration too. The Full frame stuff is generally brighter with less reach...but that is mostly seen in the low light abilities and Iso values. 
Today we have abundant choices...and not one system to rule them all. I feel the same way about the Rf mount. It's a choice, not a dominant dictate. 
It's amusing to me that the current rumored / confirmed camera bodies on this thread announcement are all DSLR and not mirrorless. As long as the X0D, 5D and 1D series continue to sell well then there is a future fro them. In the mean time...it would be nice to have a Rf camera body that's worthy of the EOS name and not the two weird oddities that we currently have. 
I would very much like a 5D4 Rf body to add to my shooting options....but the Eos R is a far cry from that.


----------



## -pekr- (Jul 16, 2019)

Are we ******* now, or not yet?  https://www.dpreview.com/news/7747501993/sony-introduces-a7r-iv


World's First 35mm Full-Frame 61.0 MP Image Sensor
15-stop Enhanced Dynamic Range
5-axis Optical In-body Image Stabilization
10 fps Shooting with Full AF / AE Tracking
567 Phase-detection AF Points, 74% Coverage
Real-time Eye AF for Still / Movie / Human / Animal
Real-time Tracking
5.76 million dot UXGA OLED Viewfinder
Upgraded Connectivity and Operability
4K Movie Recording, S-Log 2/3, HDR
Upgraded Dust and Moisture Resistance
Dual UHS II slots and improved grip (ergonomics) are also mentioned ....


----------



## sanj (Jul 16, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Are we ******* now, or not yet?  https://www.dpreview.com/news/7747501993/sony-introduces-a7r-iv
> 
> 
> World's First 35mm Full-Frame 61.0 MP Image Sensor
> ...


WOW
Just hope things work as advertized. This will be a great new bench mark!


----------



## Eersel (Jul 16, 2019)

The Canon Rs makes a lot more sense now if Sony is doing a 61 Mp Sensor.
The big reason I'll hold out for the Canon body is mostly for the lenses.

The camera store I work for gets a significant amount of Sony repair requests mostly for the body. The SEL 70-200 is extremely poorly made and is the most common repair/warranty claim we get.


----------



## Eersel (Jul 16, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Are we ******* now, or not yet?  https://www.dpreview.com/news/7747501993/sony-introduces-a7r-iv
> 
> 
> World's First 35mm Full-Frame 61.0 MP Image Sensor
> ...



I'm shocked that Sony opted for Dual UHS II slots and not XQD. Seems like a pretty large miss.


----------



## Architect1776 (Jul 16, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I think a lot of people are merging the "RS" and the "RX" bodies in their minds.
> 
> I would not expect the "RX" to have 36MP. I would not be at all surprised if it has the same or similar MP as the "R," but with a higher frame rate, autofocus improvements, more robust build, 1D battery, etc., that differentiates the 1 series from the 5 series in DSLRs. It will probably share the same sensor as the 1DX III. Simply moving from 20 to 30 mp would be an impressive leap.
> 
> ...



The new RS better have over 61 MP, Animal/human eye detection, over 15 stops DR, exceed 10fps with eye detection continuous af, minimum of FF 4K with eye tracking for animals and humans. These are the specs I am reading as I type this from "The Verge" talking about the new Sony A7R IV.


----------



## Rivermist (Jul 16, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> We definitely don't need to disparage somebody for buying the R, as some of the posts here seem to be doing. (That said, when somebody for months declares they have all the gear they need, their wife won't let them buy more, they don't have the money...And then suddenly goes all in on the R and lenses, a little good natured teasing seems inevitable. And deserved!  )
> 
> But how many enthusiastic photographers would be buying the R body if not for the rf 50mm f/1.2L, the massive 28-70mm f/2L, or the newest 85mm 1.2L? A few, I suppose, but harder to understand if a 5DIV or something similar is already in the gear bag.
> 
> If somebody is intrigued by the R, wants the lenses RIGHT NOW, or just thinks the R is the future, forget about legacy EF, enjoy, do the early adopter necessities for the rest of us, and _please start sharing more samples! _


Yes, samples, good point, here are a few with the RP and RF 24-105 or EF 35 2.0 IS w/ adapter (Lightroom Classic, no editing)


----------



## fox40phil (Jul 16, 2019)

davidhfe said:


> My expectation/hope is that the RS will exceed the 5D4's frame rate at full resolution. The 5D4 is, honestly, pretty slow by current standards. I wouldn't expect it to top 10fps at 60mp or anything, but 8fps would be 480mp/s, in the ballpark as the 420mp/s of the A7R3, which is coming up on 2 years old. An A7R4 will likely bump that up as well. Canon would _really_ have to push the MP count to the stratosphere (75+?) in order to justify a 7fps frame rate on a mirrorless in 2020.
> 
> Other than FPS, I don't know what an "R5" would offer over an RS, and the 5D4 is already fast enough for most event work. Anything faster, and you'l be in RX territory. I think the base "R" series will become the "all-rounder" when it hits mk2 (and as it's a first-gen product, I'm certainly hoping for a faster-than normal refresh cycle)


... today was the 7rIV released..with 60MP and 10FPS! Dayum! WE can expect this because Sony can do this and have done something like this in the last years...


----------



## fox40phil (Jul 16, 2019)

Eersel said:


> I'm shocked that Sony opted for Dual UHS II slots and not XQD. Seems like a pretty large miss.


why do you think so?! Look at the prices of XQD and the monopol by Sony... it would be logical, but now its better for us (the Sony photographers). SD is far cheaper and Sony has also the fastes (r+w) on the market if someone needs the speed of "300/300mb/s".


----------



## Durf (Jul 17, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Are we ******* now, or not yet?  https://www.dpreview.com/news/7747501993/sony-introduces-a7r-iv
> 
> 
> World's First 35mm Full-Frame 61.0 MP Image Sensor
> ...



Sounds like a mean mega-pixel machine! But, in all reality, my reality, I can get awesome images and have an enjoyable and satisfying time shooting my old 5D Mark ii.....or my Pentax K1 with a 60 year old lens on it.
I love all my gear and always would like more, but when is enough, enough????
I'm sure all these new high end monsters are amazing, but how many dots/pixels can the human eye really see????


----------



## Dreamwalker Photography (Jul 17, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> never heard this outlook. i see no responses i guess you have the people here shook.
> 
> So Canon's only good for reliability in harsh weather and environments at this point.


As much as I hate to say it, but for a working pro who spends 60% of his shooting time in inclement weather, and given the specs for the recently announced Sony a7RIV...Yeah. Since 1982, I've had to retire well over a dozen bodies due to weather (snow, ice, water, sand) damage. For me, a pro-body like the F1 and then the 1D was a godsend, and the former body was the reason I dumped over $10k of Pentax equipment (in 1983 dollars) for Canon.

It is also the reason I will probably never give up on Canon, and really hope that they get on the R-body pro program ASAP.

For those, probably the vast majority of 'togs', the need for such a robust body isn't there, so what Canon offers is more than good enough, and is in fact, excellent.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 17, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> does not need millions of bells and whistles.





Architect1776 said:


> should be 8K


----------



## scyrene (Jul 17, 2019)

steve oakley said:


> Canon doesn't get it, and simply wants to give the market what canon wants, when they want to.



Judging by their continued strong sales (relative to competitors), what they give is what the market wants.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2019)

scyrene said:


> Judging by their continued strong sales (relative to competitors), what they give is what the market wants.


They simply have no desire to give Sony fanboys what the Sony fanboys want. Apparently some people find that to be a personal affront, and seem to love coming here to tell us all about it…


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 17, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> They simply have no desire to give Sony fanboys what the Sony fanboys want. Apparently some people find that to be a personal affront, and seem to love coming here to tell us all about it…



Not only here, but pretty much everywhere online


----------



## BillB (Jul 17, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I think a lot of people are merging the "RS" and the "RX" bodies in their minds.
> 
> I would not expect the "RX" to have 36MP. I would not be at all surprised if it has the same or similar MP as the "R," but with a higher frame rate, autofocus improvements, more robust build, 1D battery, etc., that differentiates the 1 series from the 5 series in DSLRs. It will probably share the same sensor as the 1DX III. Simply moving from 20 to 30 mp would be an impressive leap.
> 
> ...


Actually, it is Sony that merges the RX and the RS concepts in a single model, along with high spec video. They have been a little shaky on ruggedness and battery power though.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 17, 2019)

BillB said:


> Actually, it is Sony that merges the RX and the RS concepts in a single model, along with high spec video.


I don't see that model. Canon's current X bodies have 4k60p-specced video and 14 fps of focus-tracked stills with unlimited raw bursts.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 17, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> They simply have no desire to give Sony fanboys what the Sony fanboys want. Apparently some people find that to be a personal affront, and seem to love coming here to tell us all about it…



That seems to be a lot of it. I'm genuinely glad there are different companies with different approaches. I don't really get the whole 'every company should launch identical products to their competitors' attitude.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 19, 2019)

Will a 5Dv arrive? It isn't in the forecast but it would be my next body of choice. Previous releases seem to be linked closely with 1DX (5Diii/2012Q1 vs IDX/2012Q2, 1DXii/2016Q1 vs 5Div/2016Q3)

Perhaps I have an unusual use case but an updated body is becoming more important for me. I am getting good shots using a 5Diii/L glass but banding noise is still limiting high ISO or high contrast situations. Slower fps/AF accuracy misses some shots than my previous 7D. 5Diii ruggedness and twin cards is statistically relevant.

So, what to get next?? My use case is tough on bodies. Non-professional shooting: seascape, underwater, astro-landscape, sports and group events, newborn portrait and macro. 

Underwater housings cost as much as a new body but mine can accept 5Diii/iv/DSR. Battery life is important.. changing batteries in an underwater housing is not trivial - especially on a boat/wet area! Diving means low light, moving subject and camera so shooting at flash sync speeds of 1/200 is normal. Cropping can be important as you can't change lens with subjects at a distance. Improved DR/noise management will make a difference to me.

A 5Dv would meet my expectations. The ergonomics should be identical and hopefully dimensions as well. Improvements would be under the hood which would be perfect for me. If nothing arrives next year then I will move to 5Div... at least it will be relatively cheap by then! I haven't moved yet as it seemed a half step and I could wait for another Canon 5D - for a while!


----------



## cayenne (Jul 19, 2019)

David - Sydney said:


> Will a 5Dv arrive? It isn't in the forecast but it would be my next body of choice. Previous releases seem to be linked closely with 1DX (5Diii/2012Q1 vs IDX/2012Q2, 1DXii/2016Q1 vs 5Div/2016Q3)
> 
> Perhaps I have an unusual use case but an updated body is becoming more important for me. I am getting good shots using a 5Diii/L glass but banding noise is still limiting high ISO or high contrast situations. Slower fps/AF accuracy misses some shots than my previous 7D. 5Diii ruggedness and twin cards is statistically relevant.
> 
> ...




I'm guessing the 5D5 ......will be a mirrorless type....maybe a 5D-R camera....improved over the current R with dual cards, etc.
C


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## sfeinsmith (Jul 21, 2019)

According posted message by Canon Rumors were total inaccurate what Canon planned for next year. I do not know where they got the information but more like assume or make up the story. The Canon Rumors website has provided us with a lot of fake news lately.

The fact Canon will continue to use DSLR cameras which it is not considered to phase out favor for mirrorless cameras. The most popular is both EOS 1Dx and EOS 5D also 5DSr with a high megapixels camera. Fortunately, the mirrorless R series cameras did not sell that well as same with Nikon Z series. Recently, I had a meeting with professional photographers last week. We voted if we support mirrorless or DSLR with 287 people. The result from the vote was 3 percent for the mirrorless but full 97% support DSLR. For lenses, EF lenses got 84% voted, Sigma ART lenses got 16% (big increased compare last year with 2%), and for RF lenses got ZERO.

Here interesting that we will go back to the film-based cameras with 75% favor. Most of us support EOS 5DS r body as we wait for next-generation with improvement feature with high-performance processors.


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## Eersel (Jul 23, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> According posted message by Canon Rumors were total inaccurate what Canon planned for next year. I do not know where they got the information but more like assume or make up the story. The Canon Rumors website has provided us with a lot of fake news lately.
> 
> The fact Canon will continue to use DSLR cameras which it is not considered to phase out favor for mirrorless cameras. The most popular is both EOS 1Dx and EOS 5D also 5DSr with a high megapixels camera. Fortunately, the mirrorless R series cameras did not sell that well as same with Nikon Z series. Recently, I had a meeting with professional photographers last week. We voted if we support mirrorless or DSLR with 287 people. The result from the vote was 3 percent for the mirrorless but full 97% support DSLR. For lenses, EF lenses got 84% voted, Sigma ART lenses got 16% (big increased compare last year with 2%), and for RF lenses got ZERO.
> 
> Here interesting that we will go back to the film-based cameras with 75% favor. Most of us support EOS 5DS r body as we wait for next-generation with improvement feature with high-performance processors.



The 5D IV replaced my 5DSr so quickly... High resolution isn't as valuable now that the vast majority of the market is moving to web based content. Anything around the 45 mp mark today is still an extraordinary amount of resolution.


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## cayenne (Jul 24, 2019)

Eersel said:


> The 5D IV replaced my 5DSr so quickly... High resolution isn't as valuable now that the vast majority of the market is moving to web based content. Anything around the 45 mp mark today is still an extraordinary amount of resolution.




Well, while there is a LOT going to the web, I'm still of the thought that if you still want to actually make $$ at this, that you shot for things to print and physically hang on a wall, no?

Just my $0.02,

C


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## stevelee (Jul 24, 2019)

Stitch said:


> I agree.
> Canon Rumors says it doesn't care about the M system because Canon doesn't seem to care. Well, on the other hand when you look at the messages on this forum it looks like the M system generates a lot of interest. A good proportion of CR readers do care about the M system. And the sales prove it as well.
> 
> If every single media only talks about what they think Canon cares about, well, then it's a closed loop and it will be hard for Canon to know what their customers want ;-)


I looked at the M50 when I was at Best Buy a while back. It seemed like a really nice camera. I can't think of what I would use it for, so I've not considered buying one. When I travel, I use the G7X II. It fits in my pocket and takes good photos. When I'm driving somewhere to take pictures, I use my 6D2 and take appropriate lenses along. If I had the M50, I'd still take the G7X II on trips and still use the 6D2 otherwise.

Maybe if I were a hiker, I'd get the M50 (or some other M). I'm certainly not lugging my 100-400mm II very far on foot. But I rarely walk more than a mile or so in my neighborhood or in the woods behind it. I have just a couple of EF-S lenses, so that wouldn't be much of a factor, and the one decent one is the 10-22mm, which is not exactly svelte itself, so probably would be replaced by an M anyway, if there is a good alternative (or maybe even the smaller EF-S 10-18mm, which is supposed to be a pretty good lens). Well, that is some GAS sneaking up on me, in that now I'm planning what lenses I would buy to go along with the M camera I'm not going to buy. 

And for the most part, I don't shoot many pictures here in NC this time of year. Today is lovely, but I don't have enough time to get out and around much today. Otherwise, when it is 95º, I'm not motivated enough to brave the heat. Fall and spring are gorgeous here, and the weather can be very pleasant well into November, so that is when I do most of my non-travel photography.


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## GoldWing (Nov 23, 2019)

The 1DXMKIII at 24MP will be of no interest. The D6 will be a far superior camera proving that sports photographers can shoot in beautiful hi-res with speed and focus. I think Canon might be seeing and end to their dominance.


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## Joules (Nov 23, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> The 1DXMKIII at 24MP will be of no interest. The D6 will be a far superior camera proving that sports photographers can shoot in beautiful hi-res with speed and focus.


I haven't seen any official info on the D6 resolution. With the A9 II being in the low 20's and Nikon using Sony sensors, I would assume their top end model to simply be equipped with the same sensor as the original A9 maybe.

Could you point out where you got your info from?


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## tron (Nov 23, 2019)

Joules said:


> I haven't seen any official info on the D6 resolution. With the A9 II being in the low 20's and Nikon using Sony sensors, I would assume their top end model to simply be equipped with the same sensor as the original A9 maybe.
> 
> Could you point out where you got your info from?


There is this place called fantasy-land


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## GoldWing (Nov 23, 2019)

Joules said:


> I haven't seen any official info on the D6 resolution. With the A9 II being in the low 20's and Nikon using Sony sensors, I would assume their top end model to simply be equipped with the same sensor as the original A9 maybe.
> 
> Could you point out where you got your info from?


A friends whoks works in IT as a programmer at NIkon, they plan to out pixel Canon to make the D6 resolution, focus and IQ king. He's not a fanboy but said that Canon will no longer have their bodies and big whites dominate sports any longer. We'll see.... I don't think Canon is going to put out a low resolution camera. If I know about Nikon's plans to out pixel Canon I'm sure they know too.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 23, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> A friends whoks works in IT as a programmer at NIkon, they plan to out pixel Canon to make the D6 resolution, focus and IQ king. He's not a fanboy but said that Canon will no longer have their bodies and big whites dominate sports any longer. We'll see.... I don't think Canon is going to put out a low resolution camera. If I know about Nikon's plans to out pixel Canon I'm sure they know too.


In the D6 Nikon will use whatever sensor Sony decide to sell them.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 23, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> A friends whoks works in IT as a programmer at NIkon, they plan to out pixel Canon to make the D6 resolution, focus and IQ king.


My brother’s cousin’s college roommate’s brother-in-law’s gardener is neighbors with a Canon employee. He told him who told him who told her who told her who told him that Canon has outsold Nikon by significant margins for the past 16 years and plans to continue doing so.


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## Ozarker (Nov 23, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> A friends whoks works in IT as a programmer at NIkon, they plan to out pixel Canon to make the D6 resolution, focus and IQ king. He's not a fanboy but said that Canon will no longer have their bodies and big whites dominate sports any longer. We'll see.... I don't think Canon is going to put out a low resolution camera. If I know about Nikon's plans to out pixel Canon I'm sure they know too.


My cousin's brother in law, the janitor at Nikon's Skunkworks HQ in Japan, says this just is not true. He says the IT guy read the intercepted email wrong. Unfortunately, I can't prove this. My cousin's brother in law is also in charge of the shredder and says it is no longer available. Anymore insider info you get from your friend, the IT guy, should be treated as suspect. Also, you might want to inform him about industrial espionage laws and what an NDA is.


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## Ozarker (Nov 23, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> My brother’s cousin’s college roommate’s brother-in-law’s gardener is neighbors with a Canon employee. He told him who told him who told her who told her who told him that Canon has outsold Nikon by significant margins for the past 16 years and plans to continue doing so.


Oops. You beat me to it.


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## GoldWing (Nov 24, 2019)

My friend has been right on every Nikon product he told me about and the info he's had on Canon has been spot on too. He said the MKIII will be the beginning of the end of Canon's dominence in sports because the D6 will have greater resolution, focus and IQ. He knows his stuff as his department writes the firmware. He has a prototype camera with the same sensor in the Hasselblad at 50MP that shoots 30fps. It's square and the body is silver grey with no cover or black rubber. If Nikon has a prototype that shoots 50MP at 30fps.... I think Canon has miscalculated strategically. Companies make mistakes and Canon could just have underestimated Nikon. Time will tell but my friend has been right about things at SONY, Canon and Adobe before.


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## Joules (Nov 24, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> Time will tell but my friend has been right about things at SONY, Canon and Adobe before.


Time will tell indeed. You should have ended your post with 'You heard it here first!' 

Your friend seems to have a bit too much insider knowledge to be a real person. Unless he worked at each of them and you mean during the respective periods he had some knowledge of his current employer.

Also, how does Hasselblad has anything to do with it? Do they make FF sensors? And is it a good idea to ditch Sony as a sensor supplier for Nikon? Companies do make strategic mistakes, you are right.

As for 30 FPS at 50 MP... Meh. How would Hasselblad develop such speeds? Reading through the Brust speeds of their current line up, the Canon R looks like a bloody speed demon, even if you turn on focus priority!


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 24, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> My friend has been right on every Nikon product he told me about and the info he's had on Canon has been spot on too. He said the MKIII will be the beginning of the end of Canon's dominence in sports because the D6 will have greater resolution, focus and IQ. He knows his stuff as his department writes the firmware. He has a prototype camera with the same sensor in the Hasselblad at 50MP that shoots 30fps. It's square and the body is silver grey with no cover or black rubber. If Nikon has a prototype that shoots 50MP at 30fps.... I think Canon has miscalculated strategically. Companies make mistakes and Canon could just have underestimated Nikon. Time will tell but my friend has been right about things at SONY, Canon and Adobe before.


Hello? Is that you Harry?


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## Del Paso (Nov 24, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> My friend has been right on every Nikon product he told me about and the info he's had on Canon has been spot on too. He said the MKIII will be the beginning of the end of Canon's dominence in sports because the D6 will have greater resolution, focus and IQ. He knows his stuff as his department writes the firmware. He has a prototype camera with the same sensor in the Hasselblad at 50MP that shoots 30fps. It's square and the body is silver grey with no cover or black rubber. If Nikon has a prototype that shoots 50MP at 30fps.... I think Canon has miscalculated strategically. Companies make mistakes and Canon could just have underestimated Nikon. Time will tell but my friend has been right about things at SONY, Canon and Adobe before.


You convinced me, I'll jump ship as soon as possible!


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## Kit. (Nov 24, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> Hello? Is that you Harry?


Maybe the friend is Harry.


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## Ozarker (Nov 24, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> Hello? Is that you Harry?


That's Mr. Honda Goldwing to you guys. Show some respect.  I never knew IT guys wrote camera firmware. Maybe why Sony finally has a Super tele now? Firmware Eztenze 10.2? I heard the new sports lenses coming from Sonikon were code named Ron Jeremy during development. Now we know for sure that Canon is *******.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 24, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> My friend has been right on every Nikon product he told me about and the info he's had on Canon has been spot on too. He said the MKIII will be the beginning of the end of Canon's dominence in sports because the D6 will have greater resolution, focus and IQ. He knows his stuff as his department writes the firmware. He has a prototype camera with the same sensor in the Hasselblad at 50MP that shoots 30fps. It's square and the body is silver grey with no cover or black rubber. If Nikon has a prototype that shoots 50MP at 30fps.... I think Canon has miscalculated strategically. Companies make mistakes and Canon could just have underestimated Nikon. Time will tell but my friend has been right about things at SONY, Canon and Adobe before.


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## Don Haines (Nov 24, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> Hello? Is that you Harry?


It’s his twin.


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## Michael Clark (Nov 24, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> In the D6 Nikon will use whatever sensor Sony decide to sell them.



If they follow what they did with the D5, it will be a sensor designed by Nikon and made by Sony's sensor fabrication division, but not designed in-house by Sony's imaging division.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 24, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> If they follow what they did with the D5, it will be a sensor designed by Nikon and made by Sony's sensor fabrication division, but not designed in-house by Sony's imaging division.


Maybe I was being a bit of a disrupter.


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## StoicalEtcher (Nov 24, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> My friend has been right on every Nikon product he told me about and the info he's had on Canon has been spot on too. He said the MKIII will be the beginning of the end of Canon's dominence in sports because the D6 will have greater resolution, focus and IQ. He knows his stuff as his department writes the firmware. He has a prototype camera with the same sensor in the Hasselblad at 50MP that shoots 30fps. It's square and the body is silver grey with no cover or black rubber. If Nikon has a prototype that shoots 50MP at 30fps.... I think Canon has miscalculated strategically. Companies make mistakes and Canon could just have underestimated Nikon. Time will tell but my friend has been right about things at SONY, Canon and Adobe before.


Aaaaargh - if only Canon design team knew your friend too, then they would never make a mistake again....

Still - this is a rumour site, so its always fun to hear rumours, regardless of source.....

Keep on keeping us informed.


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## Ozarker (Nov 24, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Maybe I was being a bit of a disrupter.


No. Influencer.


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## tron (Nov 24, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Maybe the friend is Harry.


I was about to write that and then I saw you beat me to it!!!


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## tron (Nov 24, 2019)

A friend's friend told me that Canon has a video camera that shoots at very dark places. Oh wait:









A Closer Look at the $30,000 Canon Camera That Shoots ISO 4,500,000


Back in July 2015, Canon announced the Canon ME20F-SH, a multi-purpose camera with a $30,000 price tag and a max ISO of 4.5 million. This 11-minute video




petapixel.com





I believe Nikon and Sony are *******!


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