# Newbie question about testing out my Mark III with samples.. HELLLLLP!



## idratherplaytennis (Apr 18, 2012)

So, silly me- I've been into photography for the last 6-7 years, and shooting with a 20D and no L glass. I do have the 50mm 1.4 but that's as close to awesome as it got for me- and that's only for the last year that I haven't been shooting. The thing is I finally made the leap to the 5D MIII after lusting after the Mark II for the last several years that I've known about it and know I made a massive jump in quality of camera etc.

My question is this- what is the easiest way to verify that I have a sharp camera/lens and not need to exchange it? My 30 day window from B&H is fast approaching and I've tested it out several times with my dogs, however I don't know if it's the perfectionist or the pessimist in me thinking they might be off.

I have like a 90% certainty it truly is user error, I mean, I'm coming from a 9 pt auto focus from the 20D which was released over a decade ago, into this massive behemoth of a camera, but I'm also not technologically incompetent at 26 either. I've swapped my AF setting to the 5 pt expansion mode (The one that looks like a cross, not the 9 pt expansion one) and been attempting to focus solely on my dogs' eyes, however out of the 20-40 images I took when I could try and get them to stay still, only really 2 came out to my satisfaction. I was shooting with the kit lens in daylight and also fluorescent light, but then again- I was shooting a 1 year old golden retriever, ripe with ADD and an abundance of energy. I'll try to attach the 2 photos that I'm somewhat satisfied with, and maybe one that I'm not. 

I was just curious about what else I could do to test and just ensure it's an error on my part and not a calibration issue with the camera or lens so that my over-thinking mind can rest at ease while I learn and get better at this. The only other issue I can think is that I'm not stopping it down enough or that the focus hits, only it's not hitting their eyes but rather just before or after. Then again- these images could be perfectly fine and acceptable by all professional standards and I wouldn't know, coming from way down the chain of slr's. 

(Side note- the two posted are of the jpegs, and I just purchased an update for my Lightroom 3 and downloaded the 4.1 patch that supposedly allows viewing of the RAW files, however I'm not that skilled at LR which I'm slowly working on learning. Wish they had a patch for PS CS5.5 that I could get for comparisons..)

f/4 1/125s 2500 ISO 24mm focal length





f/5.6 1/125s 800 ISO 105mm focal length





This is one of the many I am not so happy with, but I think it's because she was moving, or the AF did hit, however it hit her ear where the hair is more clear than the eyes. The first image has some glossy/softness to the eyes but I don't know how acceptable it is by a pro standards. The second one I feel is pretty much the best image taken so far but it could also be due to the focal length etc??

f/4 1/3200s 400 ISO 24mm focal length


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## Jakontil (Apr 18, 2012)

Look as though u got right to the eye correctly


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## Viggo (Apr 18, 2012)

Try to not use expansion points also. If you loose focus of your main point, one of the other will take over, and that's harder to control. Try setting auto-point selection a bit slower if you use expansion points.

I'm still having a hard time to figure out when to expand and when to use single/single spot af on the 5d3. Seems like an obvious choice, but in real life, not so much....


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## Ryant (Apr 18, 2012)

The number one factor for sharpness is your lens other than you hitting focus on your target. Also poor light and high ISO's kill a sharp image look. You are shooting close ups so your depth of field is very shallow even at F4.0. If you are worried about sharpness and image quality I think a high end lens is your next stop. No point in having a high end camera with a cheap lens. Anyways, check it out for yourself. Here is a quick test I did with a couple lenses. I took the same photo focused on the same spot of a flower with a 24-70 2.8, 28-135, a 70-200 2.8 II, and a 50 1.4. These are all taken with a 5d mark iii.

https://plus.google.com/photos/106912844660193230002/albums/5732630782560192977?authkey=CILXy7aFi8KxYw

I found the 24-70 when pixel peeping is not that much sharper than the cheaper lens. However the 24-70 goes to F2.8 which helps out with depth of field and low light. The 70-200 shot is by far the sharpest but one of canons newest lenses and a high price to boot. What is odd is the 70-200mm at 70 seems more zoomed than the 24-70 and I know they are exactly at 70. I also shot in the 50mm range with the 24-70, the 28-135, and the 50mm. The 50mm seems to bloom light more for some reason. In general I find the 50mm tough to get sharp images with it seems designed to soften the image. This is not always bad though depending on what look your going for.

Hope the images help you out some... also in looking at what you might want to buy next. Personaly I am not all that impressed with the 24-70 as an L lens, but I like it for low light. If your going to spend money I would wait and see how the 24-70 mark ii reviews turn out.

Ryan


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## Ryant (Apr 18, 2012)

By the way you need to click on the options at the bottom of the image and click on download the full size to really pick apart the sharpness otherwise its hard to tell from the small images google shows by default.


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## idratherplaytennis (Apr 18, 2012)

Sorry. I thought I mentioned- these were all shot with the 24-105 L kit lens.. ><

As far as lenses go- I'm selling my Tokina 12-24 because I bought it for my 20D and didn't realize (or forgot that I did realize this at the time) that it was for cropped cameras so the 12mm length is no good on the full frame. I plan to shoot a lot more indoors and architectural so I'm looking at the 16-35 f/2.8L for that, and in the long term future, my goal is probably that, saving and potentially swapping the 24-105 for the 24-70 2.8 II L, the 2.8 70-200 IS II. As for primes, I'll see when I get there, I may avoid the 24-70 and go with a 24, 35, or 85 L prime.

Anyways- back to my point, I agree that I should stop down the photos more if I want to justify the sharpness. I will say on the ones I got sharp, and photos of say, my brick driveway with some clover weeds popping up, the sharp areas came out really well. I'm going to do some more test shots in the next couple days with newer info. 

Another Sample:
(You can't see it in this, but when zoomed to 100%, all imperfections in sprinkles could be seen. The more I play around, the better I feel about it being a great camera as it should be, the worse I feel about myself as a photographer  haha)


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## april (Apr 18, 2012)

idratherplaytennis said:


> So, silly me- I've been into photography for the last 6-7 years, and shooting with a 20D and no L glass. I do have the 50mm 1.4 but that's as close to awesome as it got for me- and that's only for the last year that I haven't been shooting. The thing is I finally made the leap to the 5D MIII after lusting after the Mark II for the last several years that I've known about it and know I made a massive jump in quality of camera etc.
> 
> My question is this- what is the easiest way to verify that I have a sharp camera/lens and not need to exchange it? My 30 day window from B&H is fast approaching and I've tested it out several times with my dogs, however I don't know if it's the perfectionist or the pessimist in me thinking they might be off.
> 
> ...



as far as I could see on your samples, I do think that your 5d3 is very good. try other AF settings first then have a look if it will turn out better.


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## bp (Apr 18, 2012)

I would stop using the expansion points, switch over to spot AF, and then try again. 

With spot AF, you're telling the camera that THIS is where you want focus, and to not even bother taking the picture till that spot is in focus. With expansion points in the mix, you're basically saying that if there isn't enough contrast at that point, go ahead and see if there's enough contrast at any of the others - and shoot that.

Which is fine, if you're dealing with more depth of field... i.e. if you're shooting your dog from farther off, as he runs through the yard. If you're trying to nail his eye, with shallow DOF, you want to take the camera by the horns and show it EXACTLY where you want that focus.


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## idratherplaytennis (Apr 18, 2012)

The only reason I originally swapped to the 4 pt expansion was due to my belief that the single point spot focus wasn't hitting as well. But like many have said- zooming in, or not, either way, shooting wide open, my DOF was so narrow that just a slight amount of movement from a dog who won't sit still isn't the world's easiest thing or the smartest thing to do with camera settings. I just never realized the differences that I would be taking on as someone told me, from going from a cropped 8mp 20D to a 22mp full frame NASA technology 5D3, haha. More tests!!! But that one shot where her eye was nailed right- I'm very happy with that one.

Thanks again for the replies. They're really helping me remember all my stuff, being primarily self taught- and I haven't done a lot of shooting over the last year so it's all this wonderful long process like remembering to bike for the first time after a few years. You know the basics- but you hate making those sharp turns because you forgot about the balance required


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## prestonpalmer (Apr 18, 2012)

Do not return your camera for "soft" focus. This is a common newbie mistake. EVERY camera and lens combination differs slightly. You could return a camera, and or lens, a dozen times before you find a "sharp" combination. This is EXACTLY what AF Micro-Adjust aims to fix. There is no way of knowing from the photos you have attached to this post. There is lots of information out there on how to use this AF adjust. Or, there are computer programs that can assist you. Take a look at this one for example.

http://www.reikan.co.uk/focal/


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 19, 2012)

Before shooting any difficult shots, and yours is about as difficult as they come, put the camera on a tripod, and take about 10 shots of a wall or surface with lots of detail for the AF system to detect (Brick wall) Get back 15 or 20 ft. Set the AF ring to infinity between shots so the lens has to focus each time.

Then, do the same thing only turn on live view, and set live focus. Once again take 10 shots setting the lens to infinity and then doing a live (not Quick)autofocus with the af-on button before each shot.

You will see some variabiliity in the first 10, but mostly, the images should be sharp. If they aren't, you need to fine tune the autofocus of your lens with the AFMA. All of the 2nd batch should be sharp. If not, you probably did something wrong, like not waiting for the centerpoiint to turn green before closing the shutter, or moving the camera.

Now, having shown yourself that the camera and lens can take sharp images, proceed one small step at a time to learn the more difficult points like selecting the right focus point pattern for the job. With close range shots, for example, just one point is used. Depth of field is shallow and the camera may select any of the points that are selected, including assist points.


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## scottkinfw (Apr 19, 2012)

I was just going to make the same post. 

The 1.4 version is great. I would recommend the Pro version over the Plus version because it will also tell what is the best aperture, among other things. The owner of the program, Rich, is very responsive too.

sek



prestonpalmer said:


> Do not return your camera for "soft" focus. This is a common newbie mistake. EVERY camera and lens combination differs slightly. You could return a camera, and or lens, a dozen times before you find a "sharp" combination. This is EXACTLY what AF Micro-Adjust aims to fix. There is no way of knowing from the photos you have attached to this post. There is lots of information out there on how to use this AF adjust. Or, there are computer programs that can assist you. Take a look at this one for example.
> 
> http://www.reikan.co.uk/focal/


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## V8Beast (Apr 19, 2012)

Your samples look fine to me. Is there anything in particular about them that you don't like? I've fired off a TON of frames with the 24-105, as it's my primary workhorse lens. I love it. That said, I hardly ever shoot it wide open at f/4, as it's sweet spot for sharpness is at f/8 - f/11. As much as I defend this lens from the f/2.8 elitists, if you're going to make a habit of shooting wide open, the 24-70 is a better choice. 

Also, in the second image, at 105mm and f/5.6 with that tight of a composition, the resulting thin focal plane isn't leaving you much margin for error. 

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never had what I considered to be a "soft copy" of a lens or body. Yes, it happens, but not nearly as often as the internet would lead you to believe.


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## amgc32 (Apr 19, 2012)

scottkinfw said:


> I was just going to make the same post.
> 
> The 1.4 version is great. I would recommend the Pro version over the Plus version because it will also tell what is the best aperture, among other things. The owner of the program, Rich, is very responsive too.
> 
> ...



Do you know if this will work with a MAC? i checked that website and it says PC only.


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## idratherplaytennis (Apr 20, 2012)

I'll have to check the micro adjusting and everything out later this weekend if I have time. Thanks for the replies 

Pretty happy with the lens and camera I have now, just gotta get out and shoot and get a better feel for all the new settings. There's so much here, I don't think I'll have it down until they release a Mark IV or a 5DX or something  haha.


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## briansquibb (Apr 20, 2012)

Just suggestions

1. Install the new version of DPP and see how sharp it comes out of there

2. Use servo mode for animals and humans


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## seekn (Apr 22, 2012)

It looks fine to me. You can see a few select spots in each pic where your camera locked focus andthose spots look pretty sharp. With your new camera the depth of field is not the same at f4 as your old one, which I think you need to get used to. You should either try it on a tripod or give yourself a little broader depth of field and use a spot focus to lock onto your target. I think you should get better results. Standing so close to your dog at f4 will put his nose out of range as you can see. 
In short it looks like your mark iii is fine. Just need to get a little more familiar with your new camera.


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## idratherplaytennis (Apr 22, 2012)

Definitely need to get more used to it. I was just doing some random shots today in the middle of doing some actual work building cabinets and man. All I know so far is I have a terrible ratio of good shots to shots taken. Enough so that I'm trying to get used to not only the more shallow DOF on f/4 on a full frame, but also trying to figure out if the IS really is helping me or bringing me down. I seem to remember a friend once saying that if you're actually very steady, the IS can break the image too, so I'm trying a mixture of the two to see which results with higher hits (if any).


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## seekn (Apr 22, 2012)

Hmm I highly doubt its the IS that is screwing you up.
Just by looking at your settings that you posted from your first pic I see a couple "mistakes". As stated earlier, the obvious one is your DOF at F4. From the angle you took the shot, obviously you were a couple feet away which leaves you with a way too narrow DOF, but you did hit the eyes anyway. Good for the eyes but bad for the rest of the dog's face because with your full frame the DOF is narrower. I would suggest again to using a higher f stop and standing farther away t give yourself more leeway to really check the sharpness. 
*You cant really check sharpness of a lens or camera very well if you work with such a narrow DOF.

Next, if you still want to check on your dog I would increase your shutter speed. 125 may be the minimum to stop a dog with ADD as you put it. I would put it at a minimum of 200-250 (at least), honestly I would put it even faster if there was enough light.

If you need to raise your shutter speed, and enlarge your DOF then you will need more light obviously or raise your ISO, so mynext suggestion would be to take your pics outside in daylight where you have an abundance of light and dont need to work within the confines of such narrow parameters. 

Finally you need to work on familiarizing yourself with the new AF system. Depending on your dogs movements or lack of you have to get used to what AF setting is best. This is a whole nother can of worms. If you can get him to sit still then obviously one shot focus with one spot focal point on the eye. But if not then its obviously AI servo (I recommend back button focussing) with either AF area or AF surround and picking the right AF case in the menu depending on what type of movement your dog is engaged in. 

But if you really want to check sharpness - just check it on a stationary object for now lol. Learning the AF on the mark iii does take a little while and you introduce too many variables if you want to check your camera. 
But from your pics my guess is that its more you than the mark iii haha.
I also highly doubt its the IS - just go outdoors and practice there a bit first. It sounds like alot of your shots are indoors and shooing at a low ISO indoors does not give you alot of room for error and requires a very steady hand and good technique.
If you do plan to shoot indoors for architecture work and dont have the time to set up a tripod I like to lean or brace my body against a wall or doorframe to stabilize myself and practice tucking in my arms into my body to create a very stable non shaking base while I take the picture. I also practce my breathing and time my shots so that I depress the shutter when I am moving the least possible amount. Think of a sniper


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