# Focusing issue with the 35mmf 1.4L II



## Eldar (Nov 1, 2015)

I got mine about a week ago. Optically it seems to be everything I was hoping for, BUT! autofocus is inconsistent. I have tried it on both 5DSR and 1DX, with the same result. Most of the time it is fine, with the manually verified AFMA setting I got. I had to do it manually, since FoCal was unable to set an AFMA value. It can front focus on one shot and back focus on the next. It can also be totally off, while the camera(s) still report focus lock.

To me it looks like the Sigma Art story all over again. I´ll deliver it to CPS tomorrow, so we´ll see what they find out.

Has anyone else experienced the same?


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## Viggo (Nov 1, 2015)

That's the first I've heard of an inconsistent L, and it's the worst possible lens for it to happen to. Wow... I've had lots of "foCal has tried 5 times.. Blabla", but it's always the setup, except with the Art lenses. But this is simply horrible news. There shouldn't be any inconsistency issues with a new L.


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## gjones5252 (Nov 1, 2015)

Had mine for about three weeks and all focusing errors were user error. 
I would actually say the opposite it spot on all the time.


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## Eldar (Nov 1, 2015)

I am not basing my conclusions on individual, regular shots. I am using a LensAlign rig for manual AFMA and it was when using this it became apparent that the focus is inconsistent. But if nobody else has the same experience, I´m sure CPS will fix it. Fingers crossed!


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## Rahul (Nov 1, 2015)

Mine is tack sharp on the 5d3 as well as the 6D - shot about 500-600 frames in the last week with this lens. I've not had the time for AFMA yet (and I don't think that my copy needs AFMA). I am yet to get an OOF shot that I've not been able to diagnose as "user error".


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## TeT (Nov 1, 2015)

Its the lens. You just bought it, was it local? If so... take it back for an exchange and save yourself the week plus of no lens. It is obviously faulty so there should be no exchange issue...


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## zim (Nov 1, 2015)

TeT said:


> Its the lens. You just bought it, was it local? If so... take it back for an exchange and save yourself the week plus of no lens. It is obviously faulty so there should be no exchange issue...



+1
Seen enough of Elder's work to not believe user error
Actually I wonder if this is what's happened at Dx0


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## TeT (Nov 1, 2015)

No, from what I can gather DxO liked all aspects of the Canon lens except that it had to be attached to a Canon Camera for the test... and / or that it said Canon on it...


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## eml58 (Nov 1, 2015)

Hi Eldar
Seems you may not be the only one having this issue, won't help but you could take a look here.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=369

From what I'm seeing there are very few people having any issues, seems though you may have received one that does, so perhaps an exchange may fix the issue.

I have the older 351.4L and may buy this one as well, but in the meantime I'm waiting expectantly for the Otus 28, I'm in Europe with the Family for 5 weeks this Xmas New Year so the 28 would have been welcome, still, the 21 is not so bad either.

Hope to hear your issue gets sorted positively.


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 13, 2015)

eml58 said:


> Hi Eldar
> Seems you may not be the only one having this issue, won't help but you could take a look here.
> 
> http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=369
> ...


I'm confused, the link you posted pertains to the 24L II, not the new 35L II.


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## ben805 (Nov 17, 2015)

most likely you have a defective copy. I shot a wedding over the weekend with over 800 shots with this lens, and all of them are spot on. Only missed a few due to user error when i had my 5D3 on servo mode with the focus point on the wrong spot.


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## Eldar (Nov 18, 2015)

I have now had a couple of rounds with CPS and I am not a very happy man. I had the lens in for repair and got it back untouched. There is nothing wrong with this lens. Then I go home, I set up LensAlign rig, 1.75m from the lens, one shot, single focus point, the camera is set to minimum focusing distance prior to each shot. Below you see the three first shots I made. I have not attempted to find the extremes, because it is obvious to me that this lens is inconsistent. Check the difference between the first and the third.

According to CPS, they have a more advanced setup (I´m sure they have), which proves that the lens is OK and claims that my test is invalid and the whole thing is user error.

So; Have a look and tell me what is wrong with my setup and why I should accept this as proper performance. 

For those of you with more insight; 
What is the DoF for a 35/1.4 lens at 1.75m? 
What is the accepted focus deviation on a lens like this?


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## YuengLinger (Nov 18, 2015)

Are you still within the return window?

The only unpleasant experience I've had with CPS was with version I of this lens. Same--they just said ''in spec,'' nothing to fix.

I sold it and got a good Sigma. (But could not get a good 50 Art.)

Really hope you get it sorted!!!


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## kaihp (Nov 18, 2015)

Eldar said:


> For those of you with more insight;
> What is the DoF for a 35/1.4 lens at 1.75m?



Eldar, according to the DoF Calc app on my smartphone, the DoF should be 19.7cm at 170cm focus distance*, in the bracket 160.7cm - 180.4cm.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html yields a 20.9cm DoF, bracketing 165.2cm-186.1cm.

I'm really sorry to hear that you have these issues - are you some kind of lens problem vortex? 

*) The app won't allow me to pick 175cm, only 170cm and 180cm.


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## Viggo (Nov 18, 2015)

Here's a stupid question, is it the same with the 1dx and 5d?


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## bigdaddy (Nov 18, 2015)

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html yields a 20.9cm DoF, bracketing 165.2cm-186.1cm.
[/quote]

That calculation by dofmaster seems to be somewhat off. The means a range of 20 cm (~8 in) section of the photo should be in focus. That does not look to be the case with the target Eldar is using. I would have expected a much smaller focus range, like 2 cm or something, at that distance and at 1.4. 

@Eldar

Maybe its the camera? Can you reproduce the inconsistencies on different bodies? 

Have something so expensive not work, and then be told everything is good is really a pain. I hope you find a solution soon. 

Take care, 

bigdaddy


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## bigdaddy (Nov 18, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Here's a stupid question, is it the same with the 1dx and 5d?



Ah, you beat me by a few seconds.


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## Eldar (Nov 18, 2015)

I did of course suspect the camera, so I repeated the test with my 1DX. This is my work horse, which, apart from a few very difficult tracking situations, have never let me down. Below are the 3 first images I shot. They are so far off that I do not see the point in getting more samples.


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## kaihp (Nov 18, 2015)

bigdaddy said:


> That calculation by dofmaster seems to be somewhat off. The means a range of 20 cm (~8 in) section of the photo should be in focus. That does not look to be the case with the target Eldar is using. I would have expected a much smaller focus range, like 2 cm or something, at that distance and at 1.4.



Your scepticism is appreciated - it did seem high to me too. For the heck of it, I checked it against http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/depth_of_field_calculator.do : 165.3cm - 185.9cm = 20.6cm
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dof-calculator.htm : 164.67cm - 186.71cm = 22.04cm
http://dofsimulator.net/en/ : 165cm - 186cm = ~20.7cm

They all give a result in the 20-22cm range, so the formulaes agree and we can disspell that as a source of error.
I think the "problem" comes back to what the definition of Near & Far "distance of acceptable sharpness" is. In this case, we're probably significantly more picky than what the formulaes assume for the CoC.


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## rfdesigner (Nov 18, 2015)

kaihp said:


> bigdaddy said:
> 
> 
> > That calculation by dofmaster seems to be somewhat off. The means a range of 20 cm (~8 in) section of the photo should be in focus. That does not look to be the case with the target Eldar is using. I would have expected a much smaller focus range, like 2 cm or something, at that distance and at 1.4.
> ...



As we have 100% samples to look at we're really looking at the equivelent of 20/20 vision staring intently at an A3 print. Stuff those numbers into Cambridge in Colours DOF (using the advnaced tab) and you get something in the order of 4cm DOF.. Now I seem to remember that the Mk1 Canon EF system (5DII/7D/6D and before) merely guarenteed to get the focus point within the DOF. But the 1DX, 5DIII, 7DII etc AF sytems have superior focus accuracy on the double cross centre spots (see Rogers discourse on Lensrentals)

My understanding is the DOF variation should be about 1/2 the DOF range with these newer cameras... I think you also need a newer lens (70-200F2.8 IS II and later), the 35LII certainly counts.

So assuming you're only using centre spot, then the 0 point should always be in focus.. no matter what.


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## CW Aust. (Nov 18, 2015)

I've just had very similar problem with my sigma 35 Art lens, twice returned for recallibration and twice came back with unchanged behaviour. I'm not sure where you are Eldar, but in Australia our consumer laws say that the product must be fit for the purpose for which it was intended for. I told my retailer that I could stand right there at the counter and demonstrate in 5 minutes the focusing inconsistency just using a printed page as a target, after discussion with the local sales rep they have agreed to replace it. Do you have an equivalent of our Office of Consumer affairs? You could write to them including prints or hi res. digital images of you test results and have them act on your behalf?
Just threatening to do so usually gets the desired results here ...as in my case, no need to enter into a bunfight, all very friendly in the end if they know you mean business and won't be deterred...


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## Viggo (Nov 19, 2015)

Makes me rethink if I should save the 1000 usd having my brother buy it in the States, or just buy it here to exchange without issues.

Anybody else heard of anyone else with this issue with the 35 L II? If it's an isolated case I feel really bad for you Eldar since you had those issues with the Art lenses also...


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## Eldar (Nov 19, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Makes me rethink if I should save the 1000 usd having my brother buy it in the States, or just buy it here to exchange without issues.
> 
> Anybody else heard of anyone else with this issue with the 35 L II? If it's an isolated case I feel really bad for you Eldar since you had those issues with the Art lenses also...


I seriously doubt this is more than an individual issue. I have and have had so many Canon L-lenses through the years and they have all performed to my expectations. This is the first time I have had AF issues with one. If anything, Canon improves their AF, they are not deteriorating it.


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## Viggo (Nov 19, 2015)

Eldar said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Makes me rethink if I should save the 1000 usd having my brother buy it in the States, or just buy it here to exchange without issues.
> ...



Yes of course, but if this is batch problem? I'm 100% sure it's not a design flaw like the Art lenses. 

What does focal say for AF consistency/Quality of focus ?


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## Eldar (Nov 19, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo said:
> ...


FoCal reported that it was unable to achieve focus, so I had to do it manually with the LensAlign rig. This is a new version of FoCal, so it might be that it is finger trouble on my side, but I don´t understand what I may have done wrong.


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## Viggo (Nov 19, 2015)

Eldar said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...



That has happened to me also, I tried everything but gave up. I tried again later and everything worked. Weird. I tried the second newest and with the 24-70 it reported 100% CoF at 24mm! But at 70mm it was very poor and fit quality was poor and everything looked quite bad, but I got a value of +3 and that works when I do
Normal shooting, so FoCal can have some issues.


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## Ivan Muller (Nov 19, 2015)

I have had the same bad experiences with our local Canon Repairs in that they just send a lens back stating its within specs....I am not sure yet how to get around that yet....


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## Viggo (Nov 19, 2015)

Ivan Muller said:


> I have had the same bad experiences with our local Canon Repairs in that they just send a lens back stating its within specs....I am not sure yet how to get around that yet....



Have experienced that also. I write a separate document with everything I have tried and which tools I've tried and pictures to show the result. That makes them realize, often, that I'm not some idiot who doesn't know what afma is..


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## YuengLinger (Nov 19, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Makes me rethink if I should save the 1000 usd having my brother buy it in the States, or just buy it here to exchange without issues.
> 
> Anybody else heard of anyone else with this issue with the 35 L II? If it's an isolated case I feel really bad for you Eldar since you had those issues with the Art lenses also...



Can you wait until after the holidays? Should be a lot more info by then...


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## caMARYnon (Nov 19, 2015)

My copy is flawless. 
f1.4, shot hand-held, 1,5m from a Spider Lenscal : 10 of 10 shots are in perfect focus.


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 19, 2015)

This just illustrates that one can get a bad copy from any manufacturer.. and the importance of not condemning an entire manufacturer because of a bad copy. 

Good luck with it. I hope you can get it fixed or replaced.


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## Viggo (Nov 19, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Makes me rethink if I should save the 1000 usd having my brother buy it in the States, or just buy it here to exchange without issues.
> ...



My brother isn't going to the States before January. I'll consider the US price vs the Black Friday offerings here. If the price difference is narrow enough I'll buy it here.


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## Viggo (Nov 30, 2015)

Got my 35 L II today. It seems spot on with the center point, but I have much sharper shots with One Shot than Servo(never seen that before) and with any other point, for example to the sides, it front focuses by a mile, completely off. I switch to center in the same situation and it hits okay.

Doing a calibration tonight, but suspect it will be a 0, since it uses the center. This issue I had with the 50 L also, but not as bad as this.

I'm really really fed up with useless AF now... Feel like selling it all...


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## Eldar (Nov 30, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Got my 35 L II today. It seems spot on with the center point, but I have much sharper shots with One Shot than Servo(never seen that before) and with any other point, for example to the sides, it front focuses by a mile, completely off. I switch to center in the same situation and it hits okay.
> 
> Doing a calibration tonight, but suspect it will be a 0, since it uses the center. This issue I had with the 50 L also, but not as bad as this.
> 
> I'm really really fed up with useless AF now... Feel like selling it all...


This lens is weird. When I started using it, it would front focus in one shot and back focus in the next. I sent it to CPS, but they found nothing wrong. I was more than a little frustrated. Now I have been using it for a while and the weird thing is that is is improving ... The total different experience to the Sigma Art lenses.

I can now use any focus point and focus is pretty much dead on and it is fast. When going from minimum focus distance to something close to infinity or the other way around, I still get variable results, but not nearly as bad as when I first got it.

The only thing I have done, post sending it to CPS, is a proper FoCal AFMA, which gave a slightly different value than with the manual LensAlign rig. That should not have made much of a difference though.

So Viggo; It might be that you just need to use it for a while.


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## Viggo (Nov 30, 2015)

Eldar said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Got my 35 L II today. It seems spot on with the center point, but I have much sharper shots with One Shot than Servo(never seen that before) and with any other point, for example to the sides, it front focuses by a mile, completely off. I switch to center in the same situation and it hits okay.
> ...



It's actually funny you should say that. I've had countless L's I had to break in. And also that when its unstable and then calibrated it becomes stable. 

I hope calibration tonight will fix it and that I can use it, because the IQ from sharpness to ca to distortion is nothing short of epic.


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## Viggo (Nov 30, 2015)

I get a -3 at the center point and +6 at the outer points, ridiculous. 

Think I will send it back and move to Leica with proper manual focus, because this [email protected] will make me insane.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 30, 2015)

Viggo said:


> I get a -3 at the center point and +6 at the outer points, ridiculous.
> 
> Think I will send it back and move to Leica with proper manual focus, because this [email protected] will make me insane.



Aggravating!

Don't get mad at the question, but do you have any fast primes with great AF on the body you are using?


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## Viggo (Nov 30, 2015)

I asked myself the same question I asked Eldar, how is it on another body? Calibrated on my wife's 6d and it flew through the FoCal test and gave me a +2, tried it with outer most points and everything is dead on with absolute certainty, same with the center point. I kind of felt my 1d wasn't the same AF wise after the major service they did, and I was right, they screwed up something in alignment or something. 

VERY happy it's not the lens, but really pi$$ed off it's my 1dx.


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## Viggo (Dec 3, 2015)

Anyone experienced that the outer points need a completely different afma setting than center on the 35 L II? 

It seems almost consistent in good light with the center point, but as soon as I try in less than 9 ev light it doesn't work. and I have disabled the non-crosstype points on my camera, but the outer point does not work at all, and looks like -2 afma on the center and +6 on the outer should be right. 

I have had nothing but trouble with new lenses AND my 1dx. If buying the best there is still doesn't produce a properly focused picture, then what?

Here's a typical example, nice enough light, f1.4, iso 2500 shutter 1/640s. I tried both One shot and Servo and it wouldn't focus at all. The Servo performance is completely useless. Never used One Shot almost in my life, but now it's the only option, and it still doesn't work 85% of the time with the center point.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 3, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Anyone experienced that the outer points need a completely different afma setting than center on the 35 L II?
> 
> It seems almost consistent in good light with the center point, but as soon as I try in less than 9 ev light it doesn't work. and I have disabled the non-crosstype points on my camera, but the outer point does not work at all, and looks like -2 afma on the center and +6 on the outer should be right.
> 
> ...



I've found that disabling the non cross-points avoids unexpected hunting or inability to lock AF, but if a non cross-point does find the right contrast to lock on, seems just as accurate. In other words, I don't think the type of point is the issue in unreliable AF here.

I'm sorry I haven't kept up enough to know, Viggo, but what was the major service on your 1DX? 

Has Canon offered any insights?


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## Viggo (Dec 3, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone experienced that the outer points need a completely different afma setting than center on the 35 L II?
> ...



I often found the non-crosstype points to beep for locked focus when it's not in focus, and they never worked for tracking, couldn't trust them at all.

It's v´basically only the top-plate that is original from factory on my camera. They've changed back/front with all buttons, the screen memorycard slot etc. Mirror assembly TWICE, the shutter and a bunch of electronics and mirror assembly was the last thing they did. They replaced the focusing screen and apperantly tried to calibrate it afterwards, but it can't focus. 

I am more and more sure that the 35 L is okay though. The corner points on the 6d locks pretty much more than can be expected, and its razor sharp. The things the 6d doesn't focus properly is what I would it expect it to miss. What is not to be expected is that the 1dx doesn't come even remotely close to hitting 1/3 of what the 6d locks on to.

I've sent a long email directly to Canon expressing my thoughts around my 1dx that has been more for repair than in use. I'm so tired of sending it away for months and it comes back and there is something new wrong with it.. I'm done with it.

I will either get it replaced by Canon or they will fix it this last chance I give them, then I'll sell it and buy another newer copy of it.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 3, 2015)

Eldar said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...




I used my 35mm L on my 5D MK II and 1D MK III, and found front foucs when close, but drastic rear focus at infinity. I could correct by AFMA at one distance and it was deadly sharp. I sent it to Canon explaining this, and it came back with a note repeating what I'd said, and that AF was adjusted on a reference 1D MK III.

After that, it was perfect on both bodies at 0 AFMA. 

Don't be afraid to send it in and ask for adjustment. The AF in the lens has several possibilities of component failures that can make AF intermittent.


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## Viggo (Dec 3, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo said:
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i've also had that issue on a 300 f2.8 which also got fixed. But this isn't distance related, but which af point I use. same like the 50 L which is impossible to calibrate for both center and outer points, I think I also had the same issue with a 24-70 mk1.

But this seems like it's the camera, not the 35... my 24-70 couldn't be calibrated with FoCal at 70mm, got loads of errors and very poor fit quality and it couldnt really find a value. at 24mm it was much better, but still errors.

FoCal couldn't calibrate the 35 L II either, "failed to acheive focus" on the target constantly, which is absolutely absurd. Ran the 6d through the same test with the same setup and it flew through with no issues.

I think basically all the repairs done on my camera has destroyed it.


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## d (Dec 3, 2015)

Interesting to read about your experiences with this lens, Eldar and Viggo.

I purchased the 35L II about a week ago, and yesterday had my first chance to play with it, on my 1DX. AF performance is actually slower than I was expecting, which was a surprise.

I haven't done an AFMA yet, but close range shots seem pretty sharp mostly, while images focused close to or at infinity are all quite soft, with the AF being obviously off.

Quite possibly it'll be corrected with an AFMA adjustment, but I also own the 85L II, and get good results from that without any AFMA adjustment dialled in.

I'll report back any interesting findings once I've spent a decent amount of time with it.


d.


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## Viggo (Dec 3, 2015)

d said:


> Interesting to read about your experiences with this lens, Eldar and Viggo.
> 
> I purchased the 35L II about a week ago, and yesterday had my first chance to play with it, on my 1DX. AF performance is actually slower than I was expecting, which was a surprise.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing, good to see others share their experience also, not much to find.


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