# Canon EOS 5Ds and EOS 5Ds R Preview



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 6, 2015)

```
<p>Bryan at The Digital Picture has compiled a pretty extensive preview of Canon’s latest professional DSLRs.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5Ds.aspx" target="_blank">Canon EOS 5Ds &  EOS 5Ds R Preview</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Destin (Feb 6, 2015)

"The 5Ds has the same dynamic range as 5D III"


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## Antono Refa (Feb 6, 2015)

"Per Chuck Westfall, no HDMI out is provided."

Isn't an HDMI out a great aid in focusing stills, by displaying the image on a larger-than-camera's screen?


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## PureClassA (Feb 6, 2015)

Antono Refa said:


> "Per Chuck Westfall, no HDMI out is provided."
> 
> Isn't an HDMI out a great aid in focusing stills, by displaying the image on a larger-than-camera's screen?



and he's wrong. Per the Canon USA spec page:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_5ds#Specifications

HDMI out IS on there


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

Destin said:


> "The 5Ds has the same dynamic range as 5D III"



Meaning it has less dr than the 6d? And what about the cross banding that has been improved to much on the 6d in favor of the much weaker "line banding" only across one dimension? But of course they didn't review the camera, they're just "previewing" it by assembling information they found...



> _The 5Ds has the same dynamic range as 5D III. While some will complain that the closest Nikon-equivalent body has more dynamic range (and more is better), I haven't had an issue with the 5D II's DR. When I can't retain both shadows and highlights in an image, that scene generally needs very significantly more DR and exposure bracketing with HDR handles those instances nicely._



... but I agree here, other than other CR members: For landscape, another +2ev dynamic range would be nice, but for the very highest iq you'd still need to bracket most of the time. More dynamic range is essential for situations with movement when you only are able to take one frame - unfortunately, this includes moving leaves or grass.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 6, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>Bryan at The Digital Picture has compiled a pretty extensive preview of Canon’s latest professional DSLRs.</p>
> <p><a href="http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5Ds.aspx" target="_blank">Canon EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Preview</a></p>
> <p><strong>cr</strong></p>



So is Bryan the new Canon PR guy or something?? He should complain if he's not getting paid like it.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 6, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > "Per Chuck Westfall, no HDMI out is provided."
> ...



Nothing like a rumours feeding frenzy on announcement night.


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## JohanCruyff (Feb 6, 2015)

Destin said:


> "The 5Ds has the same dynamic range as 5D III"



but also
"This review page will be updated when my 5Ds bodies arrive, but for now, below are my expectations for this camera."

I guess we have to wait.
No, actually I'm not waiting for a 50Mpx monster, whichever number of dynamic range it has.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

JohanCruyff said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > "The 5Ds has the same dynamic range as 5D III"
> ...



He states this information is straight from a Canon associated sources, so that should be reliable. Question is if its +0.5ev like on the 6d, but I doubt it - they probably really went for the max resolution they could get out of their current tech, never mind dr.


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## expatinasia (Feb 6, 2015)

I am a big fan of TDP but I think in this instance he should have just waited until he got his hands on the camera.

This is from DP:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Answers a lot of questions.


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## JohanCruyff (Feb 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> JohanCruyff said:
> 
> 
> > Destin said:
> ...




Yes.
From DPReview:
"*It's convenient to think of the new 50MP as essentially an upscaled version of the 20MP sensor inside the EOS 7D Mark II - minus the 7D II's Dual-pixel AF*. The pixel pitch of 4.14 microns is certainly very similar across both sensors. Accordingly, *Canon tells us that at a pixel level, noise levels should be very similar to the EOS 7D Mark II* and slightly better than what we'd expect from a 5D Mark II (note: not a 5D Mark III). Oddly though, maximum ISO sensitivity is capped at ISO 6400, which extends only up to 12,800. Even more oddly, a Canon representative openly described this limitation as ‘arbitrary'. This is strange because the EOS 7D Mark II (remember the pixel pitch of its sensor is almost the same) can confidently shoot at ISO sensitivity settings up to 51,200. 
Speaking of the EOS 7D Mark II, the new 5DS and 5DS R inherit its 150,000 pixel metering sensor, so although the cameras' 61-point phase-detection AF arrays are the same as the EOS 5D III, subject tracking should be (and seems to be, from our very brief first impressions) superior to the older model albeit, oddly, not up to the level of speed and accuracy offered by Canon's own 1D X, or Nikon's recent implementations of 3D tracking.
As far as *dynamic range* is concerned, *we're told that the new 5DS and 5DS R should give the same performance as the current EOS 5D Mark III*. If true, this means that the new cameras won't be able to offer the same industry-leading dynamic range of Sony's current APS-C and full-frame sensors, but at least it isn't a step backwards. And hey - 50MP!"
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/5


No Sony sensor.


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## K-amps (Feb 6, 2015)

So if Sony gives the world a 50mp sensor that has better IQ than the 5ds's sensor, I seem to recall a statement made by a certain Canon exec; 

"We will use the best sensor available...." too bad he didn't have a Crystal ball.

It's what many thought; a probable 180nm fab used, but "Voldemort" remains the same.

Time to try Dual ISO on the 5d3, any pointers to one page that gives me all the info needed, it's a task to go over 100's of pages in the ML forums....


Marsu42... any idea?


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## Rahul (Feb 6, 2015)

Would this be a worthy upgrade for 1DS3 shooters?


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## Eldar (Feb 6, 2015)

BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!

I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII. 

I had, for all practical purposes, three major items on my motivation list, in order of priority: DR, Low ISO noise and resolution. I get resolution. I still don't know what to expect from noise, but it seems I can conclude that DR still lags at least 3 stops behind Sony/Nikon. BIG dissapointment.

Bryan is happy to use HDR/bracketing to solve this issue. Animals don't sit still! Insects don't sit still, wind moves trees, leaves, grass, hair etc. etc. The only way to get all information out of a high contrast image is to have sufficient DR. BIG dissapointment!

I was ready to push the preorder button as soon as it turned green. Now I'll spend the weekend going through my gear and figure out what I'll keep and what I'll sell. Unless I get magnificent noise performance, I think I'm done!


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## torger (Feb 6, 2015)

I don't think the DR thing is ignorance from Canon, I'm guessing Sony holds some pretty important patents and without them it's very hard to compete. Canon simply can't do it, if they could they would.

The noise quality will make a big difference though, if the noise is nicely random and lacks banding or any other pattern issues then it will appear to have much more DR than say my aging 5Dmk2 even if they measure similarly.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

K-amps said:


> Time to try Dual ISO on the 5d3, any pointers to one page that gives me all the info needed, it's a task to go over 100's of pages in the ML forums....



It's really easy, that's how I do it (obviously install ML for this):

1a. set Canon iso to 100, set ML's dual_iso to 800 or max. 1600 (it will show you how much dynamic range you gain, max is ~15ev).
1b. If you shoot Av/Tv, *underexpose* with ec to catch as many highlights as you want. Default is the amount if dual_iso, i.e. for 100/800 underexpose 2 stops. After the shot, look at the raw histogram to see if it's filled, clipped (increase dual_iso) or has space left (decrease dual_iso).

... the other way 'round is to set ML's dual_iso to 100 and Canon's iso to 800/1600 (or let it float), in this case you don't need to use ec. It's probably more intuitive this way as you simply get more shadow detail, but it's a bit more black box than an explicit underexposure.

3. After downloading the DUALxyz.cr2 files run ML's cr2hdr.exe on each of them, you'll get a 16bit raw dng. White balance will be broken even though cr2hdr tries to comput it, best option is to use ACR's "auto" wb.



Eldar said:


> I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.



I dunno, what did you expect? Obviously smaller pixels have some kind of tradeoff, but the 7d2 has very nice iq on low iso (actually, even the 18mp sensor was ok <iso400). I'd love to have a 5ds for some shots, but alas, not at $4k.

Of course the biggest downside is the lack of Magic Lantern, i.e. you're really stuck with Canon's dynamic range and have no way to extend it other than bracketing.


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## Eldar (Feb 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.
> ...


I was expecting either a new Canon sensor solution, which could compete with Sony, or a Sony sensor to solve Canon's lack of internal technology/ability. Instead it seems to be a full frame 7DII.

I cannot see why I should swap my 5DIII for this, when all I actually get is higher resolution and less high ISO performance. I could have lived with DR, provided I got significant improvements in noise. But that does not seem to happen. BIG dissapointment!


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## zim (Feb 6, 2015)

hmm... I know this may never happen but imaging this camera with ML duel ISO

Why can't Canon just impliment this on it's top end cams if the patents just can't be got round.


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## K-amps (Feb 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> It's really easy, that's how I do it (obviously install ML for this):
> 
> 1a. set Canon iso to 100, set ML's dual_iso to 800 or max. 1600 (it will show you how much dynamic range you gain, max is ~15ev).
> 1b. If you shoot Av/Tv, *underexpose* with ec to catch as many highlights as you want. Default is the amount if dual_iso, i.e. for 100/800 underexpose 2 stops. After the shot, look at the raw histogram to see if it's filled, clipped (increase dual_iso) or has space left (decrease dual_iso).
> ...



Excellent Thanks Marsu42:

Where do I download the files from? Is there a Dummies for ML page with files and steps on how to use. I have never used it before.


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## unfocused (Feb 6, 2015)

Eldar said:


> I cannot see why I should swap my 5DIII for this...



Of course not. It was never intended to be a replacement for the 5DIII. It's a niche market camera for those who need (or just want) high resolution.


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## TMT (Feb 6, 2015)

> *From DPReview:*
> ...this means that the new cameras won't be able to offer the same industry-leading dynamic range of Sony's current APS-C and full-frame sensors, *but at least it isn't a step backwards. And hey - 50MP!*"


For many of us, all that means is we'll be needing more hard drive space for the larger RAW/JPG files. Sticking to the 5D3 for the foreseeable future.


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## Eldar (Feb 6, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot see why I should swap my 5DIII for this...
> ...


I was waiting for the complementary camera to my 1DX, which currently is the 5DIII. If the 5Ds had provided a couple of stops in DR improvement and a fair improvement in low ISO noise, it would have been perfect.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> ... but I agree here, other than other CR members: For landscape, another +2ev dynamic range would be nice, but for the very highest iq you'd still need to bracket most of the time. More dynamic range is essential for situations with movement when you only are able to take one frame - unfortunately, this includes moving leaves or grass.



There have been plenty of times when that much additional range would have helped me, but generally it was because I screwed up, not because the scene happened to exceed my body's capability by no more than that additional amount.

Even when I bring my A7R on landscape shoots, I plan and equip as I do shooting Canon: timing, timing, timing, and filters.


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## quod (Feb 6, 2015)

Bryan Carnathan states in his preview that the 5DS will have more noise than the 5D3. This came from Chuck Westfall. He does not discuss the noise profile.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > For landscape, another +2ev dynamic range would be nice, but for the very highest iq you'd still need to bracket most of the time.
> ...



Personally, I think that having more safety space is a perfectly valid reason to wish for more dynamic range (though of course superheroes always expose properly). I often enable Magic Lantern's dual_iso to gain an additional 2ev (on 100/400 setting) just to be on the safe side when I cannot repeat the scene.



quod said:


> Bryan Carnathan states in his preview that the 5DS will have more noise than the 5D3. This came from Chuck Westfall. He does not discuss the noise profile.



Canon didn't conjure the 5ds sensor out of thin air, it's an upscaled 7d2 crop design - so the performance (or lack of, whatever your standard is) shouldn't be a surprise to anyone?



Eldar said:


> If the 5Ds had provided a couple of stops in DR improvement and a fair improvement in low ISO noise, it would have been perfect.



I sympathize with your feelings on dynamic range - but "low iso noise"... what low iso noise? The 7d2 seems to be just fine in this regard, imho the only potential problems are less postprocessing elasticity or color fidelity vs. "big pixels".


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## Mogwai2 (Feb 6, 2015)

quod said:


> Bryan Carnathan states in his preview that the 5DS will have more noise than the 5D3. This came from Chuck Westfall. He does not discuss the noise profile.



Actually they say the noise levels will be between 5D MK2 and 5D MK3 but the noise floor will be lower.


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## Viggo (Feb 6, 2015)

Eldar said:


> BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
> 
> I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.
> 
> ...



You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :


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## Mogwai2 (Feb 6, 2015)

What is not to like?

http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos5ds/downloads/01.jpg

and this is JPG!


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

Mogwai2 said:


> Nobody who makes great outstanding images.. nobody.. cares for 1 cent about 1 stop of DR difference.
> Only amateurs on internet forums are obsessed with tech talk.



Yay, good one - keep 'em coming, you have the understanding what Internet forums are all about


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## RLPhoto (Feb 6, 2015)

Mogwai2 said:


> Karlpedal said:
> 
> 
> > Mogwai2 said:
> ...


I smell Troll and it smells like a rancid canon fanboy.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

Mogwai2 said:


> and i already regret i registered here.



I'm sure plenty of people share this sentiment, including me :->


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## cfargo (Feb 6, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
> ...



Buy a Sony a7R and an a7S with a Metabones adapter and you get the bigger sensor, higher DR and high ISO capabilities. Plus you get to use your existing glass.


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## Mogwai2 (Feb 6, 2015)

Karlpedal said:


> Mogwai2 said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo said:
> ...



Because people tend to think that can fix their own artistic or technical shortcomings....

That´s actually a quote from a famous Photographer.
Someone who doesn´t care about DR.


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## Viggo (Feb 6, 2015)

Mogwai2 said:


> Karlpedal said:
> 
> 
> > Mogwai2 said:
> ...



After seeing my friend who is superb at landscape shots show me the difference, when doing that stuff, between a Sony A7 (of some sort) and the 5d3 I really got what it means. And if you read my comment I said that I'm not in the market for this at all, the 1dx is perfect as far as far as I concern. But as a gear head, seeing hardly any sensor improvement over the 5d2 is very disappointing.


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## fragilesi (Feb 6, 2015)

Viggo said:


> You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :



Hopefully we can dodge all the personal stuff here but I have to say your thinking here seems considerably off target. A "50mp 7d", that's a long, long way from accuracy. And while you *might* be right about the 5dIV consider this. Canon has said they will release a "high megapixel" camera, they've done it, and some. For those requiring such a beast it's like as not going to be awesome. Just as people reacted similarly to the 7dII based on specs, only to realise that it was a hell of a camera the same will happen here I suspect. For the people it suits this will rock!

Maybe I missed it, I'm not an avid follower of the rumours but given that this is another reasonably targeted camera from Canon what is there to say that the 5DIV or next 1DX will have the same sensor? That's feels like a huge leap too. This isn't *THE* big splash 5d announcement, it's one of the big splash 5d announcements. I think we'll truly know how important Canon views DR with the next in line. And who knows maybe they'll agree with the set of people that rate DR as so important. It probably is their turn but Canon has just concentrated on other things and produced some great new products / features the others don't have.

And as I've said before, Canon is producing some amazing new lenses, really excellent new additions across the range. There is only so much investment they can stand in any given period. It seems to me they are playing the long game and looking to provide the whole package in terms of their range. Let's see what comes next!


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## turtle (Feb 6, 2015)

C'mon, can we please stop the attacks against those who would like to see more DR? 

And please do not kid yourselves, there are thousands upon thousands of full-time pros and extremely talented amateurs, who consider DR when buying cameras, or get annoyed working around it when they don't have enough. It is definitely not an issue for everyone, but to suggest it should not be an issue for_ anyone_ is just the vocalisation of staggering ignorance. And yes, pros do care about a stop of dynamic range and banding when it stops them from putting an image on the wall for an exhibition, or selling it to client. And yes, this does happen enough to be a real nuisance.

If Canon was now producing bodies with 14+ stops of DR there would be very few discussions on this topic, because the issue would be dealt with. Do you hear Sony and Nikon users arguing about DR, complaining that they don't have enough? No, but do you know why? It is because 14+ stops can make a very significant difference over 11.7, but beyond 14 gains become fairly irrelevant. In short, they have what they want and those who did not want it are no worse off. Pretty well very other manufacturer now offers bodies with north of 14 stops, so all the advocates of more DR are asking is to be provided with a FF Canon with the sort of DR we are now accustomed to from APS-C and some M43 cameras. That's not too outrageous, is it? 

If you don't need the DR you will never use it, but you won't lose out either, so nobody stands to suffer or have their candy taken away, do they? So why is there a need to attack people who would like to see more DR? Are we allowed to feel disappointed, or do you find this unacceptable because it makes you feel less good about being a Canon owner? I own lots of Canon gear, but I am also disappointed in the lack of improvements in DR. I feel no conflict. My left arm is not thumping my right... and that's because I am a grown up.

None of this takes anything away from the great features the 5Ds has brought to the show. We can like them and not like the DR shortfall. Why does everything have to be polarised?


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 6, 2015)

turtle said:


> No, but do you know why? It is because 14+ stops can make a very significant difference over 11.7, but beyond 14 gains become fairly irrelevant.



Uh, how do you figure? For me, a jump to, say, 20, would be more beneficial than a jump to ~14 (which is one reason I rarely use my A7R).


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Personally, I think that having more safety space is a perfectly valid reason to wish for more dynamic range



Absolutely.


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## lintoni (Feb 6, 2015)

K-amps said:


> So if Sony gives the world a 50mp sensor that has better IQ than the 5ds's sensor, I seem to recall a statement made by a certain Canon exec;
> 
> "We will use the best sensor available...." too bad he didn't have a Crystal ball.
> 
> ...


A very good thread on Dual ISO:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1333150&page=1


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## TommyLee (Feb 6, 2015)

dont know where to ask this..
but has the 5Ds / 5Ds R solved the un-lighted(red) selected autofocus point issue...
...servo mode? from my 5D III


this is the only annoying design flaw (IMO) that would stop me ... 
....if un-resolved, ...I may as well move on from this 5Dxx idea when a more suitable camera comes along... that lets me see the selected focuspoint...

I believe the 1Dx does not have this issue...


so ...did anyone see that issues addressed anywhere

thanks so much


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## RLPhoto (Feb 6, 2015)

Mogwai2 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Mogwai2 said:
> ...


Its not a offical canon site and some fanboys of common sense.


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## bluemoon (Feb 6, 2015)

Mogwai2 said:


> What is not to like?
> 
> http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos5ds/downloads/01.jpg
> 
> and this is JPG!



am I the only one that checked that image out? The detail is phenomenal!

pierre


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## MichaelHodges (Feb 6, 2015)

No DR improvement?

Not much point to any of this, then.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

bluemoon said:


> The detail is phenomenal!



Even w/o viewing samples, I don't find it hard to imagine how a high-res image looks like, and it's not like the 5ds is the first camera to do so. At the very least, the camera can serve as a magnifying glass and nice toy 

It's just that to achieve this detail a lot of conditions have to be met at the same time, i.e. "studio work" or "controlled setting" or "tripod landscape". You cannot just snap away and expect 50mp to be sharp at pixel level - and if it isn't, there's really no point to go for this resolution in the first place.


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## Sarpedon (Feb 6, 2015)

turtle said:


> C'mon, can we please stop the attacks against those who would like to see more DR?
> 
> And please do not kid yourselves, there are thousands upon thousands of full-time pros and extremely talented amateurs, who consider DR when buying cameras, or get annoyed working around it when they don't have enough. It is definitely not an issue for everyone, but to suggest it should not be an issue for_ anyone_ is just the vocalisation of staggering ignorance. And yes, pros do care about a stop of dynamic range and banding when it stops them from putting an image on the wall for an exhibition, or selling it to client. And yes, this does happen enough to be a real nuisance.
> 
> ...



A thoroughly reasonable, level-headed post. Thank you.


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## emko (Feb 6, 2015)

MichaelHodges said:


> No DR improvement?
> 
> Not much point to any of this, then.



Yup Canon knew that they could not compete with the 36MP Sony sensor at low ISO and DR so they made the 50MP sensor to win at something but once Sony does a 50MP sensor i don't know what Canon will do?


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## Eldar (Feb 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> bluemoon said:
> 
> 
> > The detail is phenomenal!
> ...


We all expected detail to be phenomenal, given this is a 50MP camera. And for these kind of very controlled shots, with good clearance to the boundaries of its dynamic range, they should look great. But we do not have clue how it´s been processed. If this was a jpeg straight out of the camera, it would say something, but we can assume that some good pros have worked it first.

Here´ s another one from the same publication. From a demonstrator point of view, I´m surprised they didn´t use a TS-E lens, but that aside, I think this adds to your point and I don´t think this is very impressive.
http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos5ds/downloads/02.jpg


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## fragilesi (Feb 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> It's just that to achieve this detail a lot of conditions have to be met at the same time, i.e. "studio work" or "controlled setting" or "tripod landscape". You cannot just snap away and expect 50mp to be sharp at pixel level - and if it isn't, there's really no point to go for this resolution in the first place.



Err, aren't lots of shots done in the studio, controlled settings or on a tripod? Especially professional work.

That's what it's for . . .


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## Larry (Feb 6, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > "Per Chuck Westfall, no HDMI out is provided."
> ...



Yes, mini-HDMI.

On the same Canon spec page, under "Highlight Alert" section - the following incomplete sentence:

"With single-image display (Info.) and single-image display, overexposed highlight areas will" ...

Will what? Anyone know?

Thanks


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 6, 2015)

Larry said:


> On the same Canon spec page, under "Highlight Alert" section - the following incomplete sentence:
> 
> "With single-image display (Info.) and single-image display, overexposed highlight areas will" ...
> 
> ...



Blink, I'm guessing.


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## TomF (Feb 6, 2015)

As some reference to a 50 MP sensor, I currently use a Hasselblad back of this image size and can comment that size does matter at some point. For example a photo taken of climbers working across a glacier at some distance will allow one to see that they have two legs instead of one in the larger MP image. I would expect that for landscape this should be an excellent rig with careful work and the best lenses. The Hasselblad will still probably win out in dynamic range if not higher ISO performance. 

What all this means is a careful worker with good lenses, proper exposure etc should be able to do well indeed. Do most jobs need a high definition image? Probably not. 

Tom


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## Marsu42 (Feb 6, 2015)

fragilesi said:


> Err, aren't lots of shots done in the studio, controlled settings or on a tripod?



I agree 100%, that's why the 5ds will find its market ...



fragilesi said:


> Especially professional work.



I agree 50%, there's also a lot of paid event/wedding work and some select wildlife pays, too ...



fragilesi said:


> That's what it's for . . .



There's no sticker on the 5ds box saying what it's for, it's up to the market to figure this out. One € earned from a customer using it not "what it's for" is still one €. I'm sure a lot of people starting with Nikon's d800 have learned it the hard way that there are some problems attached to a high mp sensor.


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## Arkarch (Feb 6, 2015)

fragilesi said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > It's just that to achieve this detail a lot of conditions have to be met at the same time, i.e. "studio work" or "controlled setting" or "tripod landscape". You cannot just snap away and expect 50mp to be sharp at pixel level - and if it isn't, there's really no point to go for this resolution in the first place.
> ...



Well yeah, thats also Chuck makes the point about a more robust tripod mount, controlled shutter, delay timing and so on. 

Nearly all my landscape shots are done on a Manfrotto 055 tripod, live view/mirror up, and remote shutter, manual focus, manual exposure (watching the histogram) with info on, and a bracket 1/3 - 2/3 each way. Then its on to extensive post with Capture One, then PS + NIK + Topaz, all in 10-bit/channel ProPhotoRGB color workflow. Yeah, time consuming - and I do stare at images for hours.

Now I did rent an A7R + Metabones for a couple weeks last year. Did side-by-sides with the 5DS. The A7R shots did have a different quality - more resolution of course, and a bit more contrasty - a different 'feel' or tone. As I work through sets, I am using some from the A7R and some from the 5D3. Yes, you heard me, sometimes I do prefer the 5D3 shot over the A7R.

I am still thinking about using an A7R as an alternate "camera back" on shoots. I'd love to consider it for primary work, but as I noted in another post, I dont think the EVF replaces an optical viewfinder (though it has some nice features like peaking and will get better); nor do I like the small size (big hands); or the layered menu system (reminds me of some Yaesu HAM radios where I have to bring the manual to remember the option numbers). But I may still get one. June is four months away and maybe Sony will surprise.

But for now, the 5DS R will take care of my #1 need - resolution for prints. I have the super computer, could use some 4K Eizo or NEC PA monitors now  Everything else is irrelevant to my shooting or can be handled in post.

Unless I decide to go crazy and get a 645Z.


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## bluemoon (Feb 6, 2015)

Eldar said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > bluemoon said:
> ...



as already mentioned here, there is a time and place for a camera like this one, my thinking is it will be a whole lot of time and whole lot more places than this thread seems to indicate. Yes, yes, yes, there are improvements we would all like to see, but they are not here and not much can be done about it. I for one am glad to have another option for my glass if need be! It is not on my purchase list, but it will be on my rental list.

As far as the sample image, I would certainly hope that is direct from the camera! Doctored images to show of the sensor's capability would be false advertising. From what I remember, all the previous sample shots were straight out of the camera or any processing was disclosed.

Agreed that the panorama image is nothing special, the skin texture though I thought was worth talking about. 

pierre


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## quod (Feb 6, 2015)

Mogwai2 said:


> quod said:
> 
> 
> > Bryan Carnathan states in his preview that the 5DS will have more noise than the 5D3. This came from Chuck Westfall. He does not discuss the noise profile.
> ...


What EXACTLY is your point? The 5D2 is noisier than the 5D3. So, my statement is accurate.


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## Jester237 (Feb 7, 2015)

Eldar said:


> We all expected detail to be phenomenal, given this is a 50MP camera. And for these kind of very controlled shots, with good clearance to the boundaries of its dynamic range, they should look great. But we do not have clue how it´s been processed. If this was a jpeg straight out of the camera, it would say something, but we can assume that some good pros have worked it first.
> 
> Here´ s another one from the same publication. From a demonstrator point of view, I´m surprised they didn´t use a TS-E lens, but that aside, I think this adds to your point and I don´t think this is very impressive.
> http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos5ds/downloads/02.jpg


Personally I don't expect phenomenal details from this body  When Nikon D800 appear was clear, that there no lens to resolve sensor. Ok, now we have 2 Otus. And yes, we don't know how this image was processed. Video sample from Canon have strange look as for me.
What i expect from new Canon body:
1. Rich, but delicate color rendition, without warm skin tone. Especially for video. Like latest Sony sensor.
2. More DR.
For this 2 point, i can forgive Canon a lot. Surely, we can't get it from Canon now. And sample 01.jpg has ugly shadows. Again. In controlled light. Skin in shadow below necklace...

3. Less shutter lag.
4. Faster fps. 
Surely, we can't get it (1Dx still exist)

5. UHS for SD card. Bingo! We get it 
So, i will live with 1Dx + 5D Mark III until next FF. And yes, we already buy Sony camera body with AF adapter for Canon lens


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## paul (Feb 7, 2015)

No shooting mode info in the viewfinder !? Eos 7DII does...


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## fragilesi (Feb 7, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> fragilesi said:
> 
> 
> > Especially professional work.
> ...



On the first point note the "especially" but equally a lot of amateurs shoot under such controlled conditions.

And sorry but that's a clear use case for the 5Ds, it's not for the market to do anything. Those who know and need such a camera will consider it and I suspect get great results. If people mis-use it that doesn't change the qualities or usefulness of the camera any more or less than it did with the D800. Canon said they would produce a "High MP" camera and they have done that overtaking the opposition in that regard. No innovation some are STILL saying . . . 

To be honest, if people have that much money to splash around on something that they can't be bothered to get advice on or understand for themselves by research I'm not sure what any camera manufacturer should be expected to do about it. 

This is intended to be a top quality tool for the kinds of people that know how to use it for its intended purpose. Time and reviews will tell but I think once again those talking about increased DR as if it is vital to the usefulness of this camera are missing the point of the design.

Now, I will say that I will be surprised if the 5DIV / next 1Dx doesn't go some way to redressing that balance; even if I'm in the crowd that doesn't see it as being the most important aspect of the camera.


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## drjlo (Feb 7, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot see why I should swap my 5DIII for this...
> ...



Yeah, no way will 5Ds replace my 5DIII. On the other hand, those who want higher resolution (for landscape, etc) will not be all that pleased with no improvement in DR of 5Ds. 

Combined with Canon's decision not to bring EOS M3 to North America, I feel good about my decision to buy (again) A7r and Zeiss 55 f/1.8 last week. I had bought and returned the combo previously, hoping Canon would bring to market something with better DR and/or portability, but that's turning out to be a pipedream :'(



SonyA7r Zeiss FE55 by drjlo1, on Flickr


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## ykn123 (Feb 7, 2015)

Well i would like to see how the 5Ds/5DsR competes against a medium format like PhaseOne or Pentax 645z. I wonder whether i can use it (much better handling, way cheaper, use my glass) for clients requiring high resolution images. (Fashion shoots, very very large prints etc.) Sure it wont replace my 1DX's or 5DM3's - no problem, its simply made for other purposes. I give a damn on 5 or 6fps in a studio environment and I still try to understand why people moaning about ISO 6400. Why in the world should i purchase a 50MP camera (no matter what brand) in order to get high resolution images and shoot with anything other than ISO 100 ? 

The greatest photographs have been done already - with technology that we would consider old school now. I just wonder about the ongoing discussion about DR and Canon going to lose big time.... - get any of todays cameras (whatever brand) and do some nice photographs...


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## quod (Feb 8, 2015)

ykn123 said:


> Well i would like to see how the 5Ds/5DsR competes against a medium format like PhaseOne or Pentax 645z


Here's an article on the DR of the Pentax 645z:
http://starvingphotographer.com/pentax-645z-real-world-dynamic-range/

In the article is a link to a DNG file that you can download and manipulate so that you can see what the 645z can do.

Having shot the 7D2 and 5D3, which are allegedly the closest analogues to the performance of the 5DS, I am confident it will not even come close to the Pentax 645z IQ.


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## Jester237 (Feb 8, 2015)

ykn123 said:


> I give a damn on 5 or 6fps in a studio environment and I still try to understand why people moaning about ISO 6400. Why in the world should i purchase a 50MP camera (no matter what brand) in order to get high resolution images and shoot with anything other than ISO 100 ?


Ok, I can agree even with max ISO 800 only (shoot portrait with sunlight from window in studio), agree for 2 fps only. But i want perfect colors and clean shadows. From first sample in net that i can see, i don't get it  Without his, i don't need 50mp.


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## ykn123 (Feb 16, 2015)

Well i know the DR and level of details of the Pentax, - i rented one a couple of times - i like to see the how the 5DS competes to it.
Sure the 7D2 and 5DM3 are not able to compete - no point in that. We would need to see 5DS images in order to get an idea of the level of detail it offers.



quod said:


> ykn123 said:
> 
> 
> > Well i would like to see how the 5Ds/5DsR competes against a medium format like PhaseOne or Pentax 645z
> ...


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## vjlex (Feb 16, 2015)

I hardly feel qualified to offer my opinion, as I did nothing even remotely representing an extensive, technical or objective test, but today for the first time I held the 5Ds R, the 5Ds, and the 1Dx (yup, I'm super late).

Strangely enough, I liked the images from the 5Ds more than the R. They just seemed a bit crisper and cleaner. Is that one of the intentional effects of Anti-Aliasing?

Pixel peeping, I can see why these are cameras that you will more often than not want to have on a tripod- handheld it seems I could never get a tack-sharp focused shot. Granted, the display room was pretty dimly lit and the 24-70 f4L was the lens attached to it, but still.

If I were gonna choose between the 5Ds and 5DsR, I would go with the 5Ds... but I think I would still take a 1Dx over both of them.


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