# Any rumors on updates for the MT-24EX twin macro flash unit?



## jauvane (Oct 31, 2012)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

First and foremost, thanks for such a superb resource of information! I am about to fork out some cash to get a MT-24EX twin macro flash unit, but given that it has been a while since it was released I was wondering if anyone heard anything about some newer release? Its documentation still talks about the 550EX...

Cheers,

JVc


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2012)

It's a specialty flash, I expect there's virtually no pressure for Canon to update this. 

What would be nice? A major revamp to an -RT system with wireless flash heads (larger to accomodate batteries, probably meaning a more robust mounting bracket), along with the new locking foot design, silent recycle, etc. but realistically, this has got to be near the bottom on Canon's priority list. 

I'd say just get it now. 

With which lens(es) do you plan on using it?


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## jauvane (Oct 31, 2012)

That is to be used with an MP-E 65mm f2.8 1-5x Macro Lens, as well as an EF 100mm f2.8L IS USM Macro Lens. The first without a macro flash is quite a pain to use outside of a studio environment. The flash was kind of designed to be used with that lens.

Given the specialty of the flash unit it is pretty much an manufacturer-upgrads-when-they-feel-like-it device, specially. I guess I will just take advantage of the small discount available now


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## victorwol (Oct 31, 2012)

It's a great flash. Really Right Stuff makes a wonderful rig for it if you check under the macro category.


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## DanoPhoto (Oct 31, 2012)

It is a fantastic unit, especially for the MP-E 65 lens. Definitely look at getting the Sto-Fen diffusers.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, the twin flash is pretty much a necessity with the MP-E 65mm. I use it mostly with that, occasionally with the 100L Macro. For the latter, you'll need the Macrolite Adapter 67C. The MT-24EX clips directly onto the MP-E 65mm. Note that a filter on the front of the lens prevents mounting the twin lite. Personally, I use filters in all my lenses, but one is very useful on the MP-E 65mm - the working distance is so short I'm always pushing the front of the lens against a bush, etc. If you want to use a filter with the MP-E 65mm and mount the MT-24EX, get the Macrolite Adapter 58C and mount that in front of the filter. 

+1 on the StoFens, I have them. 

Been thinking about the RRS brackets - very nice, although the setup costs more than the MT-24EX itself!


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## jauvane (Nov 1, 2012)

The flashclipson the MPE-65, but a filter can be attached to a thread that the flashunit itself has. So, you do need to remove the filter in order to attah the flash, but the fulter may be attahed to the flash itself, with no need to extra adapters. I am acquiring the difusers and the lens hood and macrolite adapter fot the 100L.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 1, 2012)

jauvane said:


> The flashclipson the MPE-65, but a filter can be attached to a thread that the flashunit itself has. So, you do need to remove the filter in order to attah the flash, but the fulter may be attahed to the flash itself, with no need to extra adapters.



True - but the proximity of the flash heads and the extra distance between the filter and the front element combine to increase flare, reducing contrast and perceived sharpness in the image. That was my experience, at any rate.


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## jauvane (Nov 2, 2012)

Reading my own post I can see that typing quickly in the ipad is far from ideal. Instead of a protective UV filters, some just use the lens hood for protection of the the MP-E65. At maximum magnification the focus distance (1.98cm) may indeed get one struggling with any glass element ahead of the lens, but the lens hood does seem to be usable still. I posted my order, now it is a matter of awaiting delivery and getting some tests done with the whole package.

Thanks everyone for the input. I would just hate to order the unit just to read about a new release. The MT-24EX is quite a match for the MP-E65, but things can always improve. 

Cheers,

JVc.


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## Dalantech (Oct 15, 2015)

I don't see an option to start a new thread, so I'm gonna necro this one. Any rumors on an update to the MT-24EX? I think it's the only Cannon flash unit that has not been upgraded, and I'd like to get an updated version before next spring so I have time to work up a set of diffusers for it. Here's a sample shot of what I'm getting out of the current model. Tech Specs: Canon 70D (F11, 1/125, ISO 200) + a Canon EF-S 60mm macro lens with 25mm of extension (1.7x) + a diffused MT-24EX (flash head "A" set as the key and "B" as the fill, both on the Canon flash mount). This is a single, uncropped, frame taken hand held.



Finger Fed Bumblebee by John Kimbler, on Flickr


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## chrysoberyl (Oct 15, 2015)

Thanks for necro-ing, and nice shot! What do you use for diffusing?

I made a fairly cheap rig using two diffused LED's attached to an aftermarket hood, for my Canon 100mm L Macro. I am happy with that rig, but am considering an update to the MT-24EX.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 15, 2015)

chrysoberyl said:


> Thanks for necro-ing, and nice shot! What do you use for diffusing?



Dalantech's DIY diffusers are legendary. ;D Just type dalantech and the 2nd google autofill will answer your question (at least the English version of Google - not so for Google in Deutschland).


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## Dalantech (Oct 16, 2015)

chrysoberyl said:


> Thanks for necro-ing, and nice shot! What do you use for diffusing?



At the end of this video I show them. Gonna build a new set this weekend that will be a little less bulky.



chrysoberyl said:


> I made a fairly cheap rig using two diffused LED's attached to an aftermarket hood, for my Canon 100mm L Macro. I am happy with that rig, but am considering an update to the MT-24EX.



The problem with LEDs, even if it sends out a pulse of light and isn't continuous, is that the duration of the light will not be short enough to freeze motion. Motion is actually one of the biggest problems when shooting macro since even the slightest movement can amplify diffraction and make an image look soft. Diffraction by itself isn't too big of a concern unless you're shooting above 4x.


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## Dalantech (Oct 16, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Dalantech's DIY diffusers are legendary. ;D Just type dalantech and the 2nd google autofill will answer your question (at least the English version of Google - not so for Google in Deutschland).



Thanks for the props!


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## Sabaki (Oct 16, 2015)

Dalantech said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Dalantech's DIY diffusers are legendary. ;D Just type dalantech and the 2nd google autofill will answer your question (at least the English version of Google - not so for Google in Deutschland).
> ...



Hi Dalantech! 

I use the MR-14EX and I'm wondering, you have any suggestions on how to diffuse this unit please?

Thank you


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## chrysoberyl (Oct 16, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> chrysoberyl said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for necro-ing, and nice shot! What do you use for diffusing?
> ...



Thank you! And his macros...oh, my!


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## chrysoberyl (Oct 16, 2015)

Dalantech said:


> chrysoberyl said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for necro-ing, and nice shot! What do you use for diffusing?
> ...



Noted regarding LED's. And I will enjoy absorbing your tutorials. Do you prefer FF or crop?


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## Zeidora (Oct 16, 2015)

I use the MPE65 and MT24 a lot [I burnt out one flash tube]. No filter here, although on every other lens I use, I have a protection filter (except for the F-Distagon 16 mm). I do use the MPE 65 hood, both as protection, and to cut down on stray light to increase micro contrast. 

On the MT24 I use the garry fong puffers. Drilled a couple of holes and a slit leading to each on each side, and run a rubber band through the holes, so I can move them easily as necessary. The biggest problem is that the rubber bands deteriorate rather quickly, so have to replace them every 6 months. Have to try the stofens.

For >2:1, which I shoot quite frequently, the flash heads are illuminating the background, but not the subject. I use two Wimberley plamps with flash mounts screwed and epoxy glued to one of the ball joints. I looket at the RRS rig. Love RRS for all sorts of things, but the macro flash rigs are too much, IMHO. The Plamps work perfectly fine. The plamps can either be attached to tripod legs, or the foot of the MPE65. The flash heads are then placed right adjacent to the front of the lens.

This becomes even more important with z-stacking. You have to ensure that the light source remains static. If you mount the flash on the lens, it moves and changes illumination angle and shadows. With z-stacking, constant illumination is critical, so you rather use it in manual mode than ETTL. At f/2.8 with >3:1x, even at smallest power setting (either 1/64 or 1/128, don't remember), placing the flash heads right over the subject can emit too much light. Then you have to move the heads away a bit, but the low power setting will still ensure short exposure time (completely agree with Dalantech's tutorial).

I also often do bounce flash, so turn the flash heads away from the subject, and bounce it off white cardboard, or a white porcelain cereal bowl. That is particularly helpful with plant portraits, where you have many crisscrossing elements, or deeply nestled flowers.

Different lighting can get different information. More directional light will give you more local detail (surface sculpture), which can get obliterated with fully diffused lighting. Lighting needs to be matched to what you want to show. There certainly is plain old bad lighting, but there are multiple equally valid good lighting options. 

I agree with Dalantech, that the best flash lighting should NOT look like flashed. 

I published an article on macro flower photography, which explains and illustrates the above. If anybody is interested, PM me and I will send you the link.


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## Dalantech (Oct 19, 2015)

Sabaki said:


> Dalantech said:
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> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Back when I had one I played with mounting it at different angles and couldn't get E-TTL metering to work reliably unless it was mounted right at the end of the lens. Ring flashes have two distinct problems: The flash heads are too parallel to the lens, and the flash heads / built in diffusers are too small. Unfortunately the only fix that I know of to both of those issues is to use a different flash


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## Dalantech (Oct 19, 2015)

chrysoberyl said:


> Noted regarding LED's. And I will enjoy absorbing your tutorials. Do you prefer FF or crop?



Currently shooting with the 70D because I like the "hardware crop" built into APS-C cameras. But as the mega pixel count gets higher at some point I'm going to shoot full frame and then crop down to a 1.6x factor for prints. Also hoping that the crop modes currently built into the 5Ds and 5Dsr make their way into something affordable for a hobbyist like myself.


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## Dalantech (Oct 19, 2015)

Zeidora said:


> I use the MPE65 and MT24 a lot [I burnt out one flash tube].



I was shooting in a field that was wet from dew and one of my flash heads stopped working. Took about two weeks to get it repaired.



Zeidora said:


> On the MT24 I use the garry fong puffers.



I made a set using a pair of Sto-Fens as the connection point to the flash heads. I cut up a replacement wide angle diffusion panel for a 600 RT and hot glued the pieces directly to the MT-24EX flash heads, then a set of Sto-Fens, and then a piece of 1/2 white diffusion material. A pair of Garry Fong Puffer Plus diffusers are the final stage, and all of it held together with a frame that I built using Legos. Due to the way it's built it's solid, but I can still break it down and change the materials out if I want to experiment with something new.



Zeidora said:


> ...This becomes even more important with z-stacking...



I avoid all of that by simply not focus stacking  I like the depth and detail that I can get in a single frame stopped down. this shot was taken at 2x and F16:



Sleeping Cuckoo Bee by John Kimbler, on Flickr

Tech Specs: Canon 70D (F16, 1/250, ISO 100) + a Canon MP-E 65mm macro lens (around 2x) + a diffused MT-24EX. This is a single, uncropped, frame taken hand held.

Technique: I went looking for dormant bees early in the morning and found this Cuckoo Bee sleeping in my Lavender. After it woke up I placed it next to a Daisy and it went back to sleep. I used an artificial flower behind it to keep the background from being black.


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## Sabaki (Oct 19, 2015)

Dalantech said:


> Sabaki said:
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> > Dalantech said:
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Thank you Dalantech, I guess I'll hold onto mine until a MT-24EX ii is announced


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## mrzero (Oct 19, 2015)

Dalantech said:


> I made a set using a pair of Sto-Fens as the connection point to the flash heads. I cut up a replacement wide angle diffusion panel for a 600 RT and hot glued the pieces directly to the MT-24EX flash heads, then a set of Sto-Fens, and then a piece of 1/2 white diffusion material. A pair of Garry Fong Puffer Plus diffusers are the final stage, and all of it held together with a frame that I built using Legos. Due to the way it's built it's solid, but I can still break it down and change the materials out if I want to experiment with something new.



I would really like to see some photos of this setup...


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## Dalantech (Oct 23, 2015)

mrzero said:


> I would really like to see some photos of this setup...



I haven't forgotten about you, just haven't had time to take any photos or videos of the diffusers. Maybe this weekend.


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## chrysoberyl (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks for the advice, Zeidora and Dalantech. I've made time to work on lighting, and have made some progress. I am also more intrigued by 2X photography, my current max.


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## Dalantech (Oct 26, 2015)

chrysoberyl said:


> ... I am also more intrigued by 2X photography...



I really can't say enough about the EF-S 60mm macro lens. Once you get use to shooting at 1x then you can add 37mm of extension and take it to 2x (the lens loses a lot of focal length due to the internal focusing). So you can go from shooting at .6x with the lens set to infinity....



Banded Eye Drone Series 1-1 by John Kimbler, on Flickr

...to 2x at maximum magnification...



Banded Eye Drone Series 1-3 by John Kimbler, on Flickr

Granted you're going to have to learn about the habits and quirks of the creatures you want to photograph in order to get close to them, but that's part of the fun.


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## Dalantech (Nov 2, 2015)

mrzero said:


> I would really like to see some photos of this setup...



Here's the video.


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## mrzero (Nov 2, 2015)

Dalantech said:


> mrzero said:
> 
> 
> > I would really like to see some photos of this setup...
> ...



Thank you! The Lego apparatus is much cleaner looking than I imagined. Very cool.


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## Dalantech (Nov 3, 2015)

mrzero said:


> Thank you! The Lego apparatus is much cleaner looking than I imagined. Very cool.



Using Legos actually helped me to keep everything aligned properly, and to make a perfectly matched set of diffusers. Working really well so far. Here's a few images taken with it. The first at about 3x, and the second at 5x.



Feeding Fly by John Kimbler, on Flickr



Stomorhina Lunata at 5x by John Kimbler, on Flickr

Both single frames taken hand held. I'll have some .6x to 1x samples up soon. Light looks fine even at 1x with the MP-E 65mm, and that's the furthest I'll have the flash heads from the subject. Due to the apparent light size principle (size of diffuser is relative to the distance from the subject) the light just gets better as the magnification increases.


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## LostBoyNZ (Nov 3, 2015)

Dalantech said:


> mrzero said:
> 
> 
> > I would really like to see some photos of this setup...
> ...



Great to see! I try to use the same flash with my Sony. There's certainly some limitations, but it's not too bad actually.

I'd love to give that setup a go too. Am I right in that the parts are...

Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce OM-24X Set
Gary Fong Puffer Plus Flash Diffuser for Canon Hot Shoes

If you happen to remember where you got the wide angle diffusion panel for a 600 RT, and a piece of 1/2 white diffusion material, that'd be awesome.

Thanks


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## Zeidora (Nov 3, 2015)

Video is very nice and interesting. Gets me some ideas.
Re diffusion material, a bit old-school, but lens cleaning tissue works quite well. You can fold it as many times as you want to get the desired amount of scattering/absorption as you want. 
For internal back-reflection of excess scattered light, I think of using silver tape used for masking slides. Yep, that old ;-)


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## Dalantech (Nov 3, 2015)

LostBoyNZ said:


> I'd love to give that setup a go too. Am I right in that the parts are...
> 
> Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce OM-24X Set
> Gary Fong Puffer Plus Flash Diffuser for Canon Hot Shoes
> ...



The 600RT replacement panel I bought off of eBay. 

1/4 stop white silk

Opal frost gel

That Opal Frost is 1/2 stop loss (I thought it was 1/3). You can use whatever you want between the Sto-Fens and the Puffer Plus, but IMHO you should only use materials design to diffuse light for photography. An opaque plastic cutting board will diffuse a flash. Should you use it? Nope...


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## Dalantech (Nov 3, 2015)

Zeidora said:


> Video is very nice and interesting. Gets me some ideas.
> Re diffusion material, a bit old-school, but lens cleaning tissue works quite well. You can fold it as many times as you want to get the desired amount of scattering/absorption as you want.
> For internal back-reflection of excess scattered light, I think of using silver tape used for masking slides. Yep, that old ;-)



Depending on how you use it the lens tissue will actually block the light from the flash better than it diffuses it. Also keep in mind that it's not designed to diffuse light for photography, so it might add an odd color cast to the light. Silver tape will reflect the light, but it won't diffuse the light. Matte reflective surfaces work best.


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## Dalantech (Nov 3, 2015)

*.6x sample image*

Taken at .6x (EF-S 60mm + 37mm of extension tubes with the lens focused at infinity):



Hoverfly on Yellow Flower by John Kimbler, on Flickr


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## Dalantech (Nov 12, 2015)

This is what my current lighting setup looks like on a Bumblebee's eye (dark and reflective, so difficult to expose without blowing out the detail). Tech Specs: Canon 70D (F11, 1/125, ISO 200) + a Canon EF-S 60mm macro lens with 25mm of extension (1.7x) + a diffused MT-24EX (flash head "A" set as the key and "B" as the fill, both on the Canon flash mount). This is a single, uncropped, frame taken hand held. I am the finger model.



Finger Fed Bumblebee II by John Kimbler, on Flickr

I'm still experimenting with the materials that I'm using on the inside of my diffuser.


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