# Besides the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS, What are the Other 3 Lenses Coming?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 20, 2017)

```
That’s a great question and we are only getting very vague answers from people that know what’s coming.</p>
<ul>
<li>We’re told that the 3 lenses <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/unreleased-canon-gear-has-appeared-for-certification/">shown in the certification documents</a> are going to be a “series”.</li>
<li>The “series” of lenses has also been described to us as “high-end”.</li>
</ul>
<p>If we go by the certifications, the three lenses in question are being manufactured at the Canon Opto SDN BHD factory in Malaysia. I cannot find any “high end” lenses in the Canon lineup that are made in Malaysia, please sound off in the forums if you know of any.</p>
<p>The same certification documents show that the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS II is being made at Canon’s Utsunomiya factory in Japan, which to my knowledge is the only place Canon L lenses are made, which is what we would call “high end”.</p>
<p>We have no information as to what “series” these 3 will fall under.</p>
<p>The announcement for these 4 lenses is expected the last week of August.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## ScottyP (Jul 20, 2017)

They must be M lenses. Where else does Canon lack lenses so much that a series of 3 would be released simultaneously. And there is no way to describe a high end M lens other than high end since there is as of yet no name for "L" series M lenses.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 20, 2017)

ScottyP said:


> They must be M lenses. Where else does Canon lack lenses so much that a series of 3 would be released simultaneously. And there is no way to describe a high end M lens other than high end since there is as of yet no name for "L" series M lenses.



I was told in a roundabout way that they aren't EF-M lenses, but that wasn't confirmed.

I doubt it's new tilt-shift lenses, there's no room for more macro lenses in a series, but we have seen patents for APO lenses in the past. Most notably an 135mm f/2.8 & 180mm f/3.5 APO.

I hope to hear more soon, this is a weird one in terms of how its leaking out.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 20, 2017)

I note the update to the other post, indicating these are three different lenses. But 3 of them, all from Malaysia...really seems like an M20 kit lens in 3 colors.


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## ahsanford (Jul 20, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> I note the update to the other post, indicating these are three different lenses. But 3 of them, all from Malaysia...really seems like an M20 kit lens in 3 colors.



Neuro, stop hiding the truth. We all know it's AvTvM's short tele fast pancake, the EF-M 85mm f/2.4 IS STM, in three colors: Pentax Silver, Wood Grain, and Naugahyde. 8)

- A


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## Antono Refa (Jul 20, 2017)

ScottyP said:


> They must be M lenses. Where else does Canon lack lenses so much that's series of3 would be released simultaneously.



Say FF lenses.

If Canon releases a new 85mm f/1.4 lens, it might release a new 50mm f/1.4 to compete with the slew of high end lenses in this spot (Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 Otus, Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art, Nikon 58mm f/1.4G). That would be a high end lens.

There are rumors about upgrades of the TS-E 45mm & 90mm for close to a decade. Those are high end lenses.

Canon could give the 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2 the same treatment as the 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, and 35mm f/2 got.


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## BasXcanon (Jul 20, 2017)

It really sounds like an EFM lens. 
But could it be a 30 years anniversery specialty lens for the EF camera's?


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## ahsanford (Jul 20, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> Say FF lenses.
> 
> If Canon releases a new 85mm f/1.4 lens, it might release a new 50mm f/1.4 to compete with the slew of high end lenses in this spot (Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 Otus, Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art, Nikon 58mm f/1.4G). That would be a high end lens.
> 
> ...



Hey, I'd be singing Malaysia's praises were that true. But why unleash a horde of EF lenses at an EOS-M release? My money's on a fruit stripes gum of three different colored EF-M lenses.

- A


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## MayaTlab (Jul 20, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> Canon could give the 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2 the same treatment as the 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, and 35mm f/2 got.



And I'd be instantly buying two of those . I can't wait to get rid of my 50mm STM.


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## rfdesigner (Jul 20, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> Canon could give the 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2 the same treatment as the 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, and 35mm f/2 got.



The two most "outdated" are the 50f1.4 and 28f1.8.. the 85f1.8 & 100f2.0 much less so, but who wouldn't want improved optics and IS on these two.

So perhaps the 28f1.8, 50f1.4 & 85f1.8

IS all round?

Better mechanics?

Or will they nerf the lot with nano-USM.. yuck!


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## ahsanford (Jul 20, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Canon could give the 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2 the same treatment as the 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, and 35mm f/2 got.
> ...



The current rumor for the non-L 50 is no IS and nano USM, which I believe still qualifies as a sequel in Canon naming terms, i.e. an EF 50mm f/1.4 USM II.

I've not shot nano USM but other than it being FBW -[) it's supposed to be much better than STM for stills speed.

I want IS, but I *need* faster/more reliable AF 'time until AF locks' than my 50 f/1.4 USM, internal focusing (huge for me) and hopefully better wide open performance.

...but I still think the 3x 'series' sort of statement screams EF-M given the new M body we expect to come out alongside this.

- A


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## Khalai (Jul 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Say FF lenses.
> ...



How about three colours of 50 mm lens? Black, L beige and L red 

Seriously tho, this all sounds a bit fishy. What other high-end does Canon have apart L and DO lenses, which are all made in Utsunomiya factory? Do they really consider e.g. 24 IS or 35 IS high-end lenses? Or do they outsource cheaper L lenses to non-Japan country? Which would contradict everything they've held up so far. Japan pride is not to be taken lightly in this matter.

Oh dear, this is going to be long five weeks


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## brevity1 (Jul 20, 2017)

Is it crazy to think they might be high-quality crop sensor lenses?? L-series glass in an ef-s shell?

The biggest draw to Fujifilm - for me, at least - right now is their lenses. They have great glass but don't waste money OR size/weight on the FF edges. 

I am a pro-sumer who shoots with a 7dmkii. Most EF-S lenses I've used are not up to par, and L-lenses are cost-prohibitive and too big. Sigma are cheaper, but bigger and heavier. 

I settle for USM lenses which are great, but I would gladly plunk down $600-$900 on an ultrafast, somewhat compact fast lens.


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## zim (Jul 20, 2017)

I would love an EF 50 f/1.4L IS but the question is at what focal length do Canon feel IS is too much of a trade off to IQ (or is considered unnecessary)
We now know 85 and 35 isn't it which puts 50 in a very interesting situation


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## Khalai (Jul 20, 2017)

brevity1 said:


> Is it crazy to think they might be high-quality crop sensor lenses?? L-series glass in an ef-s shell?
> 
> The biggest draw to Fujifilm - for me, at least - right now is their lenses. They have great glass but don't waste money OR size/weight on the FF edges.
> 
> ...



I see your point, but there is a physical limit in size advantage of EF-S lenses. You mentioned Fuji and you are very much correct. Their Fujicron lineup is very impressive (23/2, 35/2 and 50/2) with very affordable pricing. There is excellent 14/2.8 and 56/1.2 primes. But look at some telephoto lenses and zooms there. Do you find 90/2 lens small? Or perhaps 50-140/2.8 lens small or light? That sucker weighs around 1 kg, which is only a 350 g short of some 70-200/2.8 FF lenses. But for wideangle and standart primes, you are of course right.

Canon could use some nice EF-S primes, such as EF-S 10/2.8, 22/1.8 or 55/1.8. But I'm afraid that they see their APS-C lineup as either for basic consumers only, who never go beyond kit zooms and more serious users are forced to buy L lenses, which then gently push them toward Canon FF lineup with more profit margins.

Fuji on the other hand has made their APS-C lineup a flagship and won't go FF anytime soon (then there is GFX body and lenses for rich Fuji fans), so they can commit to their crop lenses. Canon seems to leave their EF-S lineup aside a bit and concetrate on their L lenses lineup instead.


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## ahsanford (Jul 20, 2017)

brevity1 said:


> I settle for USM lenses which are great, but I would gladly plunk down $600-$900 on an ultrafast, somewhat compact fast lens.



Tamron's latest FF line comes to mind. They didn't shoot for the moon with f/1.4 and instead went with f/1.8 IS, which is going to be less mass to carry around. But they'll be diametrically oversized for a crop only shooter (and you get benefits from that, keep mind: less vignetting, sharper output, etc.).

But I believe 'pro EF-S' is on the way out as an idea. Few will pay $799+ for a crop-only lens (at CaNikon at least) because it's DOA if you migrate to FF. And Canon makes a boatload of money selling new 6D#/5D# owners EF lenses to replace the EF-S lenses they can no longer use, so _why would they give us reasons to stay in crop?_

So Canon has very little incentive to make, say:

EF-S 23mm f/1.4
EF-S 35mm f/1.4
EF-S 56mm f/1.2
EF-S 16-55 f/2.8
_
...*but Fuji makes all of those* and a boatload more._ When you have no FF platform to push people to, a 'pro-crop' lens ecosystem is possible.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 20, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Fuji on the other hand has made their APS-C lineup a flagship and won't go FF anytime soon (then there is GFX body and lenses for rich Fuji fans), so they can commit to their crop lenses.



+1, you beat me to it. 

- A


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## brevity1 (Jul 20, 2017)

brevity1 said:


> Canon could use some nice EF-S primes, such as EF-S 10/2.8, 22/1.8 or 55/1.8. But I'm afraid that they see their APS-C lineup as either for basic consumers only, who never go beyond kit zooms and more serious users are forced to buy L lenses, which then gently push them toward Canon FF lineup with more profit margins.
> 
> Fuji on the other hand has made their APS-C lineup a flagship and won't go FF anytime soon (then there is GFX body and lenses for rich Fuji fans), so they can commit to their crop lenses. Canon seems to leave their EF-S lineup aside a bit and concetrate on their L lenses lineup instead.



That's true... yet now we have 3 unknown high quality lenses being manufactured in Malaysia that we know are not m lenses. 

The 7Dmkii is, in many ways, a professional camera. I can get fantastic IQ by using an L-series lens but am wasting money and carrying around something extra bulky to get that IQ. 

Also, we just saw the release of the 35mm macro ef-s. 

And yeah, I'd LOVE a crop sensor 20mm-24mm f2 or faster.


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## brevity1 (Jul 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> brevity1 said:
> 
> 
> > I settle for USM lenses which are great, but I would gladly plunk down $600-$900 on an ultrafast, somewhat compact fast lens.
> ...



I guess my fingers are crossed they've decided to target the Fuji market.


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## vau (Jul 20, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> That’s a great question and we are only getting very vague answers from people that know what’s coming.</p>
> <ul>
> <li>We’re told that the 3 lenses <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/unreleased-canon-gear-has-appeared-for-certification/">shown in the certification documents</a> are going to be a “series”.</li>
> <li>The “series” of lenses has also been described to us as “high-end”.</li>
> ...



Dead simple, they are:

EF-ML 10-22mm f1.8
EF-ML 18-70mm f1.8
EF-ML 50-125mm f1.8


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## andrei1989 (Jul 20, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > They must be M lenses. Where else does Canon lack lenses so much that a series of 3 would be released simultaneously. And there is no way to describe a high end M lens other than high end since there is as of yet no name for "L" series M lenses.
> ...



not to belittle what you do here buuut...you were also told that the new EF-S prime would NOT be a macro and..guess what :

i don't think canon will launch 4 EF-S lenses in one year so i really hope these will be some EF-M glass, as i recently switched to the M5, but also i expect to see maybe 1 lens in different colors..


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## Matt Shelton (Jul 20, 2017)

Here's hoping that, in an era of cheap mass market zooms, that "high end" is simply code for "non-L prime" a la the 35 f2 IS. Bring on the 50 1.4 IS!


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## jolyonralph (Jul 20, 2017)

If it isn't a new EF-M 15-45 replacement (which is sorely needed if the EOS M range is to be taken seriously) then I very much doubt there would be three new EF lenses or EF-S lenses released in one hit - there aren't enough gaps in the range to justify this. 

I guess if we are really lucky it would be revamps of the 50mm f/1.4, the 85mm 1.8 and the 100mm 2.0 - but I would have expected more news of this to leak out if that was the case.

There have been ongoing rumours of EF-M primes for some time now, it's been a bit quiet for a while, but it may simply be they have been ready for a long time and simply Canon were waiting for the right time to bring to market.

So let's see. Maybe we'll get something like

EF-M 16mm f/2.8 STM 
EF-M 35mm f/2.0 IS STM
EF-M 50mm f/1.8 IS STM


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## Khalai (Jul 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> So Canon has very little incentive to make, say:
> 
> EF-S 23mm f/1.4
> EF-S 35mm f/1.4
> ...



Well, technically, there is EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS USM, but it's getting a bit overdue for an upgrade 

But you are 100% correct. Fuji is committing to their crop lenses, because they have no desire to make fullframe cameras. So they can go all out in their crop lenses offerings. Canon is not. Simple as that


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 20, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> I note the update to the other post, indicating these are three different lenses. But 3 of them, all from Malaysia...really seems like an M20 kit lens in 3 colors.



Why not just three existing EF-M lenses in white? Say, 15-45, 18-135, and 55-200. That'd be a "series".


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## rrcphoto (Jul 20, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> If we go by the certifications, the three lenses in question are being manufactured at the Canon Opto SDN BHD factory in Malaysia. I cannot find any “high end” lenses in the Canon lineup that are made in Malaysia, please sound off in the forums if you know of any.



Nope. Only the lower end EF and EF-M lenses are made in Malaysia from what I could tell.

from what I could find from EF standpoint; the EF 50mm 1.8 II, 40mm STM I could find .. alot of them are shared it seems between Malaysia and Taiwan.

Also this seems strange because canon's never in the past 20 freaking years did more than 5 lenses (that was only once) in a non-photokina year.

so for canon to launch 6 lenses this year in a non PK year would be a remarkable change.


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## rrcphoto (Jul 21, 2017)

jolyonralph said:


> If it isn't a new EF-M 15-45 replacement (which is sorely needed if the EOS M range is to be taken seriously)



no it doesn't.
the 16-50mm that sony beens foisting in their kits is remarkably worse, and it doesn't seem to harm them any.


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> so for canon to launch 6 lenses this year in a non PK year would be a remarkable change.



I think that number over time simply has to grow to support so many more mounts than back in 1987 (right?) when EF started.

I recognize resources are somewhat constrained on design/production (at least production to Canon's standards), but over time advantages/synergies/efficiencies can creep in:

[list type=decimal]
[*]They start to amass a boatload of optical formulas that can be 'refreshed' with tighter tolerancing or a new LCD or focusing technology, etc.


[*]They can rinse and repeat some simpler lens designs for different mounts -- the pancakes and EF-S 35 / EF-M 
28 ring macros come to mind.


[*]Production efficiencies could be found in shared componentry (esp. EF-S and EF-M), automation, etc.


[/list]
I'm not saying that they will go hog wild and go all 'year of the lens' _every _year, but they could conceivably increment up their output without hiring everyone at Sigma to do it.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

And yes, if you are curious, I am actively changing the subject to not even begin to get excited that the 'series' in question is a non-L fast28/50/85/100 refresh. _One's hopes cannot be crushed if they never left the ground, amirite? _ :'(

All my chips are on kit crop stuff, likely EF-M in a lovely suite of colors.

- A


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 21, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > They must be M lenses. Where else does Canon lack lenses so much that a series of 3 would be released simultaneously. And there is no way to describe a high end M lens other than high end since there is as of yet no name for "L" series M lenses.
> ...



You were also told that the new EF-S 35 macro "wasn't a specialty lens, like a macro", so while I trust you to know that lenses are coming, the credibility of your sources when they give you details like that isn't exactly high.


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

mppix said:


> Btw. why a 28?



Because Canon sells _two _28mm non-L lenses. One was refreshed in the 24/28/35 IS refresh 5 years ago.

The other was in the same family as the 20/28/50/85/100/135softfocus non-L USM lenses from the 90s. It's a 'fast' EF 28mm f/1.8 USM compared to the tiny 80s lens EF 28mm f/2.8 (that I cherish in the IS refresh version now).

But we have no idea if they'll replace that entire non-L USM prime line. My guess:

20mm f/2.8 --> Dead. Niche to the bone and UWA like this are manual focus lens territory with a lot of third party options. If you really want a 20mm, you get a Sigma here -- I just don't see much money for Canon here.

28mm f/1.8 --> On life support. A fast 28mm is too long for some landscapes/astro and too short for general use. It's a great street option and I love my 28 f/2.8 IS, but that's -- again -- pretty niche. The 24 and 35 do bracket this FL pretty closely.

50 f/1.4 --> 100% must/will happen for reasons well-catalogued above and beyond this middle-level line of lenses.

85 f/1.8 --> 100% must/will happen for reasons well-catalogued above and beyond this middle-level line of lenses. Canon can't just sell Ferraris in such a staple portraiture length.

100 f/2 --> 50%? Canon already has two other 100mm macro primes that take lovely portraits, so building a faster non-L is anyone's guess.

135 f/2.8 softfocus --> DOA. If they shut production down before the refresh, _the refresh ain't coming, folks._ Besides, any softfocus devotees are probably in the Instagram crowd and will either filter for it or possibly pony up for these manual LensBaby/Petzval/Soap bokeh sort of lenses. Canon needs to call a fad a fad and not commit a long-term production line to it.

If this post's 'series' is talking about this family of lenses, my guess would be 50 f/1.4 - 85 f/1.8 - 100 f/2. But I don't think it is.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

mppix said:


> Agreed that it's a rather long shot with the series..



My take is that triage the entire non-L prime line and decide (for each) to:


Good demand + strong need for a second price point below the L --> give it the full-blown 24/28/35 IS refresh treatment, but likely with nano USM. That will build a solid 2nd option to the L -- the f/(slower than 1.4) IS to the f/1.4L above it, like f/4L IS zooms vs. their pricier f/2.8L brothers. Candidates: 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8


'Meh' demand + still a need for a second price point OR there is no L option at that FL --> consider keeping the older lens in production longer, or possibly consider a really low cost STM prime (think 50 f/1.8 STM). Candidates: 28 f/1.8, 100 f/2


Very low demand --> let it die. Candidates: 20 f/2.8

- A


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## redpoint (Jul 21, 2017)

Any ballpark price on the upcoming 85 f/1.4? 

It's time for me to get another fast prime, I haven't owned one since 2013.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 21, 2017)

redpoint said:


> Any ballpark price on the upcoming 85 f/1.4?
> 
> It's time for me to get another fast prime, I haven't owned one since 2013.



$6,333 launch retail.


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## Antono Refa (Jul 21, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Say FF lenses.
> ...



Rumors are wrong from time to time. E.g. this rumors started as a release of an EF-S 18-55 in three different colors. Possibly, the lenses aren't built in Malaysia.


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## Woody (Jul 21, 2017)

'High-end' plus 'Made in Malaysia' are not consistent with Canon's usual practice...

Lens series made in Malaysia...

If not EF-M, then may be series of EF-S primes or EF primes...

So-called 'high-end' may simply mean large aperture (f/1.8 or faster)...

Nikon has a series of affordable fast FX f/1.8 primes (28/35/50/85)... Does Canon plan to follow suit?


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## privatebydesign (Jul 21, 2017)

mppix said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > redpoint said:
> ...





In all seriousness, I'd expect it to be around the 35 MkII L price ($1,699), definitely sub $2,000, the 1.2 is only $1,899 and slower with IS is cheaper than faster without.


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## rrcphoto (Jul 21, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I'm not saying that they will go hog wild and go all 'year of the lens' _every _year, but they could conceivably increment up their output without hiring everyone at Sigma to do it.



it doesn't seem so.

again, going back to 2005, canon has only done more than 4 once. the last 10 or so years, canon has done more on PK years, but part of that is due to the M.

2017: 2
2016: 6
2015: 4
2014: 7
2013: 4
2012: 9
2011: 4
2010: 5+2 tc's
2009: 5 ** only outlier
2008: 4


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## rrcphoto (Jul 21, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Antono Refa said:
> ...



built in malaysia is pretty much fact. since it was registered for certification as being made there.

it never stated EF-s 18-55 either.


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

redpoint said:


> Any ballpark price on the upcoming 85 f/1.4?
> 
> It's time for me to get another fast prime, I haven't owned one since 2013.



Leaning towards $2k the more I think about it. 'World's first f/1.4 stabilized lens' is something Canon will build some pomp and circumstance around, one would think.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

Woody said:


> 'High-end' plus 'Made in Malaysia' are not consistent with Canon's usual practice...
> 
> Lens series made in Malaysia...
> 
> ...



Canon needs to follow suit with Nikon... _by delivering something it has already been selling for 20+ years?_ 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Fixed+Focal+Lengths_50mm&mxp=700&ci=274&N=4288584247+4291570227+4108103537+3991602360+4094906854+4094906853+4094906851+4261208112+4261208126+4261208123+4261208119&

Nikon sure beat Canon to the punch there! 

- A


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## SecureGSM (Jul 21, 2017)

I would expect the 85 F1.4 IS Canon lens to be approx. 50% more expensive than the 35 F1.4 II L lens.
same true for the Sigma Art offerings: 
35 Art - $900.00
85 Art - $1,350.00
so my guess is: Canon 85 F1.4 IS for around $2,200 - $2,500 at launch.




mppix said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > mppix said:
> ...


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## Antono Refa (Jul 21, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Canon rumors wrote "The EF-S 18-55 f/4-5.6 IS STM in Different Colors", then fixed it.


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## svatsal (Jul 21, 2017)

Is there any chance of Canon 200-600mm, rumored for quite sometime?


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## Woody (Jul 21, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Canon needs to follow suit with Nikon... _by delivering something it has already been selling for 20+ years?_



Optical quality of Canon's very old 28 f/1.8 and 85 f/1.8 leaves much to be desired.


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## Khalai (Jul 21, 2017)

Woody said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Canon needs to follow suit with Nikon... _by delivering something it has already been selling for 20+ years?_
> ...



Nikon introduced a nice 1.8 primes lineup in the last few years. Their 20, 28, 35, 50 and 85 midrange primes are pretty decent for the price. I'd love to see Canon counterparts, but that segment is also contested by Sigma Art lenses, albeit they're more expensive, but also better and faster.


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## meho1a (Jul 21, 2017)

If only after new 85mm the price of 85mm f1.2 ii would drop for 1000$. 
 and then i woke up


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## meho1a (Jul 21, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Canon could give the 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2 the same treatment as the 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, and 35mm f/2 got.
> ...




How about the 20 mm f2.8? 
Does anyone miss small ultrawide with possibility of fron filters? I do.


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## jolyonralph (Jul 21, 2017)

These are malaysian-made lenses. Don't get too excited....


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## Woody (Jul 21, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> The two most "outdated" are the 50f1.4 and 28f1.8.. the 85f1.8 & 100f2.0 much less so, but who wouldn't want improved optics and IS on these two.
> 
> So perhaps the 28f1.8, 50f1.4 & 85f1.8
> 
> ...



Made in Malaysia... so nano-USM or STM is nearly confirmed...

I won't despise lenses made in Taiwan or Malaysia. After all, the optical quality of the 50 f1/.8 STM (Malaysia) and 18-55 f/4-5.6 IS STM (Taiwan) are rather decent.


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## rrcphoto (Jul 21, 2017)

people are getting way off track here.

if they are Malaysia lenses, they are in the lower end of the spectrum as far as price and lenses.

doens't mean they are trash, but they aren't L's and they aren't higher end 1.8 optics either.

we're talking lenses like the 50mm STM, the 40mm STM the 24mm EF-S STM and some of the EF-M's.

they are made there because they can be made cheaper than in Japan. So we're not talking expensive lenses.

IMO these are either EF-S or EF-M lenses, but I still think it's only one lens for the EF-M and it's three color sequence.


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## rrcphoto (Jul 21, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Antono Refa said:
> ...



true. that was CR's on musings. however the original rumor which was from noshita camera, did not have that.

it does however, have made in malaysia - their accuracy on rumors is pretty close to 100%.


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

Woody said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Canon needs to follow suit with Nikon... _by delivering something it has already been selling for 20+ years?_
> ...



Sure, they are old, but the prior post had a tone that Canon needed to catch up with Nikon's clever new idea of affordable non-L primes. It's not a new idea -- Nikon's just done it more recently, that's all.

But yes, as I mentioned above, a number of those non-L lenses -- fast28/35/50/85/100 -- could use a refresh. I don't they all will be given one, though. The 50 & 85 need dwarfs the others, IMHO.

- A


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## redpoint (Jul 21, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> redpoint said:
> 
> 
> > Any ballpark price on the upcoming 85 f/1.4?
> ...



That's basically what I was thinking. $2K USD seems to be the entrance point for nice glass these days.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Jul 21, 2017)

Khalai said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Antono Refa said:
> ...



You're getting a little confused, "high end" in the article was pertaining to the 85mm f1.4 L IS not the 3 lenses being made in Malaysia.


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## Tom W (Jul 21, 2017)

I don't know about "high-end" but a series of 3 lenses could cover the replacement of the 50/1.4 - 85/1.8 - 100/2 or even a 135/2.8. Make then with real USM, good IQ, and a nice build like the current 85/1.8 and they'd be good for the long run.


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## ahsanford (Jul 21, 2017)

PHOTOPROROCKIES said:


> You're getting a little confused, "high end" in the article was pertaining to the 85mm f1.4 L IS not the 3 lenses being made in Malaysia.



I don't it's _Khalai_ that's getting confused. :

See below from the very first post. This little trio from Malaysia is supposed to be 'high end'. Seems fishy, but perhaps some nice non-L FF lenses might be coming.

- A


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## Khalai (Jul 21, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> That’s a great question and we are only getting very vague answers from people that know what’s coming.
> We’re told that the 3 lenses shown in the certification documents are going to be a “series”.
> The “series” of lenses has also been described to us as “high-end”.



It's been CR, who stated that.




PHOTOPROROCKIES said:


> You're getting a little confused, "high end" in the article was pertaining to the 85mm f1.4 L IS not the 3 lenses being made in Malaysia.


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## Tom W (Jul 21, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> The two most "outdated" are the 50f1.4 and 28f1.8.. the 85f1.8 & 100f2.0 much less so, but who wouldn't want improved optics and IS on these two.
> 
> So perhaps the 28f1.8, 50f1.4 & 85f1.8
> 
> ...



That's another possibility - the wide end. 20/2.8, 28/1.8, and 50/1.4. I still prefer USM, with a nice wide focus scale if possible. Some people still use that technology, though very few, I suppose.


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## Tom W (Jul 21, 2017)

I think that if it's a series of lenses, parts-interchangability will be a factor. For example, the same AF system may be shared on all 3 lenses, and maybe even a group of lenses. Kind of like the 85/1.8 and 100/2 are very similar in construction. That's probably harder when the field of view differs a lot, as it does at the wide end. A 20 is much different from a 28, which is again much different from a 50. And the optical formula for all 3 are quite different.

Another possibility might be a series of 3 lenses, but of the same/similar focal length but different mounts. An EF-M, EF-S, and EF version of the 28/1.8 would all have their uses. Granted, the EF would work well on all 3, but an EF-M could easily be more compact due to the shorter backfocus distance of the mirrorless mount. Putting a 28/1.8 EF and adapter on the M5 makes for a fairly large package, whereas a 28 specifically designed for the EF-M would be somewhat smaller.


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## ntt2007 (Jul 21, 2017)

meho1a said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > Antono Refa said:
> ...


I'm on the same boat as you. I wish canon will release another EF pancake lens in the range between 21-35mm. The 40mm 2.8 is a great lens but I dont like this focal length much.


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## slclick (Jul 21, 2017)

What's the highest end glass to come out of Malaysia to date? 40 Pancake?


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 21, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> PHOTOPROROCKIES said:
> 
> 
> > You're getting a little confused, "high end" in the article was pertaining to the 85mm f1.4 L IS not the 3 lenses being made in Malaysia.
> ...



What's "high-end"? L only? Faster than f/2? Anything above STM? Anything made by Canon? 

And remember, the EF-S 35 Macro rumor said "not a specialty lens, like a macro". So I take details like that with a grain of salt.


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## BillB (Jul 21, 2017)

ntt2007 said:


> meho1a said:
> 
> 
> > rfdesigner said:
> ...





ntt2007 said:


> meho1a said:
> 
> 
> > rfdesigner said:
> ...



With a full frame sensor DSLR, 40mm may be about the shortest focal length where a pancake design can be used because of the need to allow clearance for the swinging mirror. With shorter focal lengths a retro focus design would be needed, leading to a larger lens.


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## Sharlin (Jul 21, 2017)

The 18-135mm IS (nano)USM replaced the 18-135mm IS STM. I wonder if Canon is planning to give the nUSM treatment to the "holy trinity" of cheap EF-S lenses: the 10-18mm IS STM, 18-55mm IS STM, 55-250mm IS STM. Those are not "high-end" by any definition of the word though, and the 18-55mm was just recently updated. Still, I have a hunch that Canon is going to largely transition from STM to nUSM in the future. (Plus likely from some lower-end USM to nUSM as well, like the 70-300mm and the rumored new 50mm 1.4 (sorry ahsanford... :'( ))


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## Woody (Jul 21, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> And remember, the EF-S 35 Macro rumor said "not a specialty lens, like a macro". So I take details like that with a grain of salt.



Thanks for the reminder! ;D

Before the release of EF-S 35 f/2.8 macro, we get from http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=31742.0

"We’re told that the next new non-kit lens Canon will announce is an EF-S prime. We weren’t told what focal length the new EF-S prime lens would be, but we do know that it’s not a specialty lens like a macro."

It's likely the trio of lenses is just one lens with different colors or a series of cheap EF-S/EF-M primes


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## Sharlin (Jul 21, 2017)

Woody said:


> It's likely the trio of lenses is just one lens with different colors or a series of cheap EF-S/EF-M primes



Maybe they are high-end colors!


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## Khalai (Jul 21, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > It's likely the trio of lenses is just one lens with different colors or a series of cheap EF-S/EF-M primes
> ...



Ferrari red, Bentley black and Bugatti gold?


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## rrcphoto (Jul 22, 2017)

Woody said:


> It's likely the trio of lenses is just one lens with different colors or a series of cheap EF-S/EF-M primes



if it's colors, then it's likely EF-M, because EF-S has two colors (white/black) and EF-M has three colors (white/silver/black)


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## Sharlin (Jul 22, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Woody said:
> ...



"L" red, of course! Why settle for just a red ring when you can have a red lens!


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 22, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > It's likely the trio of lenses is just one lens with different colors or a series of cheap EF-S/EF-M primes
> ...



Unless it's one color added to each of three lenses.


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## rrcphoto (Jul 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Woody said:
> ...



True. That'd be decidedly strange to do on a M20 release.


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## ntt2007 (Jul 23, 2017)

BillB said:


> ntt2007 said:
> 
> 
> > With a full frame sensor DSLR, 40mm may be about the shortest focal length where a pancake design can be used because of the need to allow clearance for the swinging mirror. With shorter focal lengths a retro focus design would be needed, leading to a larger lens.
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 23, 2017)

BillB said:


> With a full frame sensor DSLR, 40mm may be about the shortest focal length where a pancake design can be used because of the need to allow clearance for the swinging mirror. With shorter focal lengths a retro focus design would be needed, leading to a larger lens.



The Voigtländer 20/3.5 is a pancake lens (1/4" longer than the Canon 40/2.8), for FF bodies. No AF, though.


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## Khalai (Jul 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > With a full frame sensor DSLR, 40mm may be about the shortest focal length where a pancake design can be used because of the need to allow clearance for the swinging mirror. With shorter focal lengths a retro focus design would be needed, leading to a larger lens.
> ...



And corner sharpness is also nothing to write poems about...


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## slclick (Jul 24, 2017)

Khalai said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...


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## Luds34 (Jul 25, 2017)

Woody said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Canon needs to follow suit with Nikon... _by delivering something it has already been selling for 20+ years?_
> ...



Really??? 

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=106&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=355&CameraComp=979&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=0

I think too many folks think you need that "professional" red ring before the lenses are good. My experience with both the 28mm (which was mostly shot on high density crop sensor) and the 85mm are they're excellent lenses. Razor sharp stopped down. CA is both of their weaknesses though however.


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## Khalai (Jul 25, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Actually that 28/1.8 USM is a nice lens. I've used it on my 7D as a standart walkaround lens. On APS-C, the quality is good to very good from f/2.2-4 and build quality is also very decent with no moving parts, fast and silent AF and overall compactness and rigidity. But I sold it, when I purchased 24-70/2.8 II - apart from wider aperture, there is no contest. With 85/1.8 USM I've had nothing but bad luck. First copy was a dud and second one was not focusing reliably (on 7D). But as you said - both lenses are still relevant with only CA as a major weakness (and that 28/1.8 has a rather mushy corners on FF wide open as well).


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## jolyonralph (Jul 25, 2017)

The 28mm f/1.8 isn't highly regarded in the astrophotography world as it has terrible coma - see https://www.lonelyspeck.com/lenses-for-milky-way-photography/


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## magarity (Jul 25, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > It's likely the trio of lenses is just one lens with different colors or a series of cheap EF-S/EF-M primes
> ...


The EF-S also comes in silver, just not sold in North America.


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## Luds34 (Jul 26, 2017)

BillB said:


> With a full frame sensor DSLR, 40mm may be about the shortest focal length where a pancake design can be used because of the need to allow clearance for the swinging mirror. With shorter focal lengths a retro focus design would be needed, leading to a larger lens.



That was kind of my understanding as well. However the Voigtländer 20mm caused me to question that a bit. How did they pull that off? Or are the softer corners part of the compromise?


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## Luds34 (Jul 26, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Actually that 28/1.8 USM is a nice lens. I've used it on my 7D as a standart walkaround lens. On APS-C, the quality is good to very good from f/2.2-4 and build quality is also very decent with no moving parts, fast and silent AF and overall compactness and rigidity. But I sold it, when I purchased 24-70/2.8 II - apart from wider aperture, there is no contest. With 85/1.8 USM I've had nothing but bad luck. First copy was a dud and second one was not focusing reliably (on 7D). But as you said - both lenses are still relevant with only CA as a major weakness (and that 28/1.8 has a rather mushy corners on FF wide open as well).



Sounds like we used the 28mm for very similar purposes. It was my "normal" prime on crop and I used it a ton on a T2i and later on a 70D. I disliked it at f/1.8, but just stopping it down to f/2, f/2.2 did wonders. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the 85mm. When I was still shooting crop, the purchase of the 85 is what made my 70-200 collect a lot of dust (for shots of the kids running around outside, etc.)


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