# Sinful thought: pairing my ancient 5D classic with a EOS M



## JohanCruyff (Jun 10, 2013)

My wife suggests (i.e. orders  ) light baggage/luggage for our next holidays (Turkey in August, if the country doesn't collapse in the meantime).



Possible solutions:
i. Take only 5D classic + 17-40mm: 1.2 Kg plus spare battery, battery charger, CFs, sensor cleaning pump; something more if I carry my 430 EX 2 too
ii. No 5D. Borrow G12 from wife.
iii. No 5D, buy something lighter.

In case (iii):
- amateur DSLR (600D-T3i)? 0.5Kg, basic lens 1 or 2 hectograms. Not a huge difference.
- G1X? High IQ, but slow lens and slow AF
- Canon 100D (SL1)? 4 hectograms; too recently launched -> too expensive (in Italy the kit costs as much as a 60D body)
- my *most sinful* thought: the mirrorless EOS M. In Italy, its price has dropped below 400 Eur including 18-55 STM IS and 90EX (plus 140 for the EF adapter... plus a spare battery or two...).

Some owner (not just reviewer) claims that its autofocus is not that bad and Canon will release a new firmware at the end of June which will more than double its speed in _flex zone_; let's hope it works better in other settings, too.


My obsolete but beloved 5Dclassic and the M would certainly be an Odd Couple. ;D 
Year: 2005-2008 vs 2012-....
Sensor: Full-Frame vs APS-C
Cards: CompactFlash vs SD
Software: Digic 2 vs Digic 5
Raw files: 12bit vs 14 bit
Automatic sensor cleaning: No vs Yes
Weight (Body): 8 hectograms vs 3.
MP: 12.8 vs 18
Autofocus: good with the center point, reasonable with the outer points vs ?
Rear screen: 270,000 soft pixel vs 1,040,000 sharp ones, with multitouch touch screen 
Optical Viewfinder: Yes (large and bright) vs No
FPS: 3 vs 4.3 (3 if using AF)
Live view: No vs Yes
Video: No vs Full-HD @ 30,25 o 24 FPS
External Mic: No vs Yes
Built in flash: No vs No
Faster shutter speed: 1/8,000 vs 1/4,000
ISO Range: who cares?

I own a 430EX2 flash, and it would be intriguing to use the 90EX as a master and the 430EX2 as a slave on the 5D: I suppose the 430EX2 would be too heavy for the M, even though I tried it on the G12.

The two "sisters" (or grandma and granddaughter?) could share my flashes, my tripod and grandma would lend the lenses to her granddaughter.



.......



In any case, if I buy the M and find it disgusting, I think I can sell it losing just 30 to 50 Euros: a kind of "rental fee".



.......



What do you think, fellow members from Canonrumors?




P.S. Feel free to rate my English too, besides my sinful proposal: if the score is good, I'll tell my teacher  ; otherwise I will not talk about this experiment on a foreign forum.


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## Zv (Jun 10, 2013)

It depends on what kind of stuff you like to photograph. If traveling light as possible is your aim then just use your smartphone (iPhone 5?) otherwise get the right gear for the job. If you want to cover a large range of subjects AND travel light then the EOS M is a pretty good choice, especially once this firmware comes out. 

What's wrong with just taking the 5D c? What lenses do you have? You might find a 17-40L a bit too wide for capturing street shots of people or portraits. You could pair it up with a short tele, like an 85 1.8, otherwise a 24-105L covers just about everything - maybe rent one?

For traveling I personally think one or two lens max plus a speedlite is best. No tripod as long as you have an IS lens.


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## Eli (Jun 10, 2013)

Buy a Fuji x100s and you're set.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 10, 2013)

I'd take the 5D simply because it makes gorgeous files.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11758.0


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## JohanCruyff (Jun 10, 2013)

Thanks! 




Zv said:


> It depends on what kind of stuff you like to photograph. If traveling light as possible is your aim then just use your smartphone (iPhone 5?) otherwise get the right gear for the job. If you want to cover a large range of subjects AND travel light then the EOS M is a pretty good choice, especially once this firmware comes out.
> 
> What's wrong with just taking the 5D c? What lenses do you have? You might find a 17-40L a bit too wide for capturing street shots of people or portraits. You could pair it up with a short tele, like an 85 1.8, otherwise a 24-105L covers just about everything - maybe rent one?
> 
> For traveling I personally think one or two lens max plus a speedlite is best. No tripod as long as you have an IS lens.


My lenses: 17-40 F/4 L, 24-105mm F/4 IS L, 100mm F/2.8 IS L, 70-200 F/4 IS L. 
The 24-105 is surely the best all-purpose lens I have, but I think that in cities like Istanbul it could be interesting to shoot wider than 24.

My smartphone is a Samsung Galaxy III. I like to see pictures on it much more than using it as a camera (zero DOF control).





Eli said:


> Buy a Fuji x100s and you're set.


 
I'm not sure I'm a fixed focal lenght guy . 



Ivan Muller said:


> Yes the fuji x100s is a very good suggestion! and it was on my shortlist but now that I have the Eos M I wonder if it can be so much better for double the price....But the Eos M will integrate nicely with the rest of your Canon stuff and can work well as a backup camera. I bought the kit here in South Africa for the equivalent of about 600usd and that included the 22mm f2, lens adapter and flash. Now, I, could easily travel the world with this kit...oh and yes I consider an ovf as a must have with this kit.( Although I use the rear lcd a lot more than I would care to admit...!) The zoom will give you IS and a bit more reach on either side and from what I have heard is very good quality. The Eos M kit is half the price of the X100s over here...
> 
> So yes I will say go ahead! just take two extra batteries. I bought two Wasabis from amazon but have not yet received them ...was only about 20-25 usd for the pair. There is a lot to be said for travelling light...


 
Interesting... Amazon.it offers genuine Canon Lp-E12 batteries for 53 Eur and other brands for 14 / 15 Eur.





RLPhoto said:


> I'd take the 5D simply because it makes gorgeous files.
> 
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11758.0


Absolutely true!
I'm faithful to Granma 5D, but I was thinking about situations in which weight and (almost) pocketability are important and my wife's G12 has not enough IQ (dim light, for instance).



Another question.
I read a very positive review on Canon EF-S 18-55 STM IS on Photozone. 
I wonder if the EF-M 18-55 STM IS is optically similar. Is it that sharp?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 10, 2013)

Do you really want to get into a new series of lenses? Buying lenses for a M that only work on a M?? You can adapt EOS lenses to a M, but then you lose the benefit of size.

AF is also very slow. 
Of course, buying a different make further isolates you from common hardware, software, lenses, etc.

As long as you have a plan and can afford to maintain two different systems, and understand about the very slow autofocus, its fine. The SL1 might be a lower cost way to go in the long run, because it works with all your lenses.


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## Sella174 (Jun 10, 2013)

Actually, I think the heaviest part of your gear are the lenses. So, maybe buy a 50mm f/1.8 or 35mm f/2 for the 5D camera? The nice thing about your 5D is that it is not so temperamental regarding older lenses.


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## Zv (Jun 10, 2013)

Sella174 said:


> Actually, I think the heaviest part of your gear are the lenses. So, maybe buy a 50mm f/1.8 or 35mm f/2 for the 5D camera? The nice thing about your 5D is that it is not so temperamental regarding older lenses.



If 24mm isn't wide enough I don't think a 35mm f/2 will help! this is the compromise we all face - weight vs IQ. What's more important to the OP?


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## dppaskewitz (Jun 10, 2013)

Not much more odd than my 5Dc and 6D.

I would spend my money on a bag that will take your 5Dc with 24-105 and your 17-40 and 70-200 (and other accessories). That is traveling light (your wife may need some convincing). I know you love your 100, but for a trip like this it is the one to leave at home --- the others aren't. For what it's worth, last year I went to Rome and Venice with the 5Dc, 24-105 and 70-200. That kit worked for almost everything. At that time, I didn't yet have the 17-40. Now, I would bring it. 

Where did you go wrong with your second daughter?

I wish my Italian was as good as your English.


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## yakman (Jun 11, 2013)

I just bought the EOS M for an up coming trip to Perth, Austrilia.
Decided to travel light and leave my 40D and lenses at home.
It's a easier choice for me as I don't have the 5D+24-105.


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## verysimplejason (Jun 11, 2013)

Take your 5D come hell and high waters. It's worth it. Pair it with a 40mm F2.8 (just get it!) and your 17-40L for landscapes and you're set. For most of the time, 5D + 40mm would be sufficient and light enough. Just bring your flash and 17-40 inside a bag and you're set.


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## JohanCruyff (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks for your suggestions.  

The matter is complicated.

I love my 5D but...
[list type=decimal]
[*]I do like the idea of buying a light body plus a kit lens (18-55) to take with me all the times I'm not sure a DSLR is strictly needed. Maybe I could even get used to a even lighter, faster but less versatile fixed focal lenght EF-M 22mm or EF 40mm.
[*]I do like the idea of having a chance to shoot occasional videos (e.g. for my daughter's synchronized swimming: two minutes every six months) with a (slightly) higher quality and more controls with respect to my daughter's 1100D (T3).
[*]I would try occasional live-view shooting (macro photography, for instance).
[/list] 

 I would also avoid wasting money in 2013 for new gear that I will seldom use, in order to have a more understanding wife I switch to the 5D3 in 2014.

Unless the 100D / SL1 price drops suddenly, the two remaining options are 600D (T3i) and M.
Considering that the 600D (T3i) costs about the same as the M, the choice is between ergonomy + better autofocus + viewfinder + rotating LCD and weight + size + understatement.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Do you really want to get into a new series of lenses? Buying lenses for a M that only work on a M?? You can adapt EOS lenses to a M, but then you lose the benefit of size.
> AF is also very slow.


That's a good point. 
My thoughts led me to consider the M + 18-55 as a luxury "point and shoot", so I was not considering further EF-M lenses.



Sella174 said:


> Actually, I think the heaviest part of your gear are the lenses. So, maybe buy a 50mm f/1.8 or 35mm f/2 for the 5D camera? The nice thing about your 5D is that it is not so temperamental regarding older lenses.


Good suggestion but... is there scientific evidence that people using 5 (five) non-circular aperture blades lenses can survive? :-\ 



Zv said:


> this is the compromise we all face - weight vs IQ. What's more important to the OP?


A second body could allow to choose the most appropriate in different situations.





dppaskewitz said:


> Not much more odd than my 5Dc and 6D.
> 
> I would spend my money on a bag that will take your 5Dc with 24-105 and your 17-40 and 70-200 (and other accessories). That is traveling light (your wife may need some convincing). I know you love your 100, but for a trip like this it is the one to leave at home --- the others aren't. For what it's worth, last year I went to Rome and Venice with the 5Dc, 24-105 and 70-200. That kit worked for almost everything. At that time, I didn't yet have the 17-40. Now, I would bring it.
> 
> ...


i. I went to Paris last year (also) to test my new 17-40. In the beginnin it felt weird, and I remember how happy I was as I switched to the 100mm. I don't need to take sharp pictures of Paris when I can blur the Arc de Triomphe behind my wife. : 
ii. My second daughter liked the pink Nikon (she was 8 when she bought it) but I think I can convert her to the light side of the Force by lending her my old Powershot S5.
iii. Thank you



yakman said:


> I just bought the EOS M for an up coming trip to Perth, Australia.
> Decided to travel light and leave my 40D and lenses at home.
> It's a easier choice for me as I don't have the 5D+24-105.


  Please let us know if you survive to this risky experiment! I could be a second tester.



verysimplejason said:


> Take your 5D* come hell and high waters*. It's worth it. Pair it with a 40mm F2.8 (just get it!) and your 17-40L for landscapes and you're set. For most of the time, 5D + 40mm would be sufficient and light enough. Just bring your flash and 17-40 inside a bag and you're set.


I learnt something new (http://www.wordreference.com/enit/%20come%20hell%20and%20high%20waters).
I like your approach.  

Did I mention that my family and I took two 250 km trips by bike along the Donau river (2010) and Drava river (2011)? I took my Powershot S5 in 2010 and 5D+24-105 in 2011. 

One point&shoot picture I took in 2010:
http://www.investireoggi.it/forum/attachments/life-good-cafe/72595d1279186249t-thread-ufficiale-delle-vacanze-2010-img00117-20100709-1223.jpg


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## Skywise (Jun 11, 2013)

> I went to Paris last year (also) to test my new 17-40.



Dang... I just walk around my neighborhood to test mine... ;D


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## Rocky (Jun 11, 2013)

Bare-bone minimum: 5dc and 24-105. if there are extra "allowance" left, bring either 17-40 for buildings or 70-200 for people that are not your family. You are used to FF, you are not going to be happy with the crop body.


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## zim (Jun 11, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> Take your 5D come hell and high waters. It's worth it. Pair it with a 40mm F2.8 (just get it!) and your 17-40L for landscapes and you're set. For most of the time, 5D + 40mm would be sufficient and light enough. Just bring your flash and 17-40 inside a bag and you're set.



+1 sounds like good advice to me, your on holiday have fun! no need to spend lots


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## sdsr (Jun 11, 2013)

If you're really serious about traveling light, there's no point getting a small body unless you can attach to it lenses that are first rate, light and small; and the best range of such lenses right now seems to be in the Olympus/Panasonic M43 camp (which is why I recently bought into it as an adjunct to my Canon FF gear). Or get a first-rate point-and-shoot such as the Sony RX100. As someone else pointed out, if you take a few Canon EF or EF-S lenses with you, they will weigh more than any body you take; you might as well take your 5D and be done with it.


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## JohanCruyff (Jun 12, 2013)

Skywise said:


> > I went to Paris last year (also) to test my new 17-40.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hope your neighbours are less French than French people.  



BREAKING NEWS!

According to my wife's yesterday's resolution, the combo 5Dc + 24-105 does not conflict with the idea of light traveling!

I can add a spare battery + battery charger + this tool + a polarizing filter + a 430 EX2 and forget the M or SL1 or whatever else!


....


BTW, I want to share something I found on an italian forum: *an official list of Canon Lenses which could take longer to focus or be unable to focus with the M exists*.

The list includes my beloved 100mm Macro F/2.8 IS L. 

http://www.canon.it/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_M.aspx?faqtcmuri=tcm:80-978233&page=1&type=faq
"Fuori produzione" means "Discontinued".

[/size]Let's hope the new firmware will partially fix this..

[/size]Sorry for the OT but I also want to share that I read that , for the same lenses mounted on the Canon *6D*, it is recommended to focus in live-view choosing the Quick Mode option: Flexy-Zone and Face-Detection could focus very slow or not focus at all.http://www.canon.it/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_6DWG.aspx?faqtcmuri=tcm:80-1002640&page=1&type=faqThanks again for your suggestions, my fellows! [size=small]


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## JohanCruyff (Jul 25, 2013)

*BREAKING NEWS!*
My EOS M arrived today.


I know my supporters will certainly ask themselves "How did he convince himself to purchase the M?".
The answer is simple: they basically PAID ME to get a M.



Let me explain this.

a) I saw an on-line italian shop offering a "full kit" (EOS M + EFM 22mm + EFM 18-55mm + Flash 90EX + Mount Adapter" at an irresistible price: 535€.
b) Then I considered that the same vendor offered:
i. EFM 18-55: 125€
ii. EFM 22mm: 180€
iii. 90EX: 85€
iv. Mount Adapter: 95€.

c)So, [535 - (125+180+85+95)]... it was 50€ for the EOS M!!! But 50€ was still a *huge : *amount of money for a mirrorless! I couldn't justify paying it. 

d) Therefore I had to consider that with the EOS M they sent me an original Canon LP-E12 battery, which costs abount 55€.

So, basically, they paid me 5€ to buy the EOS M. 8) ;D 


If a new "M2" comes out with a better autofocus & viewfinder & battery & GPS & Wifi & Megapixel & S/N & DR, and I decide to upgrade, I won't feel guilty about wasting my money.  




[BTW, I immediately ordered two 32GB SD (i.e. about 2,000 pictures in RAW), the lens hood for the 18-55mm and an extra battery... 135€... but I consider them just _consumable materials_ : ]


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## JPAZ (Jul 25, 2013)

FWIW, recently returned from long trip through Central Asia with my 5Diii + 24-105 + 17-40 + 40. I used the 24-105 for over 90% of my photos. The 40 was used just a few times and many of these will not be "keeper" shots. The 17-40 came into use in some interiors of buildings. In retrospect, I could have done the whole trip with just the 24-105 and been happy. (BTW, I did not bring a flash and only shot existing light but that is something for which the 5Diii is quite capable).

I now also own an M. I have the 22 and an adapter so any of my existing lenses can be attached. Although I've not yet shot extensively with the M, I can state that if I was going on a trip where the photos were very important to me, I'd always carry the DSLR. The big camera has more flexibility and better IQ. The M will be my backup (I do like the camera) and will go with me for those occasions where "snapshots" might be the norm, like an upcoming family beach outing.

Carry your 5D and your 24-105 and put these into a nice shoulder bag like the TT Retrospective and enjoy your trip.


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## Jay Khaos (Jul 25, 2013)

JPAZ said:


> FWIW, recently returned from long trip through Central Asia with my 5Diii + 24-105 + 17-40 + 40. I used the 24-105 for over 90% of my photos. The 40 was used just a few times and many of these will not be "keeper" shots. The 17-40 came into use in some interiors of buildings. In retrospect, I could have done the whole trip with just the 24-105 and been happy. (BTW, I did not bring a flash and only shot existing light but that is something for which the 5Diii is quite capable).
> 
> I now also own an M. I have the 22 and an adapter so any of my existing lenses can be attached. Although I've not yet shot extensively with the M, I can state that if I was going on a trip where the photos were very important to me, I'd always carry the DSLR. The big camera has more flexibility and better IQ. The M will be my backup (I do like the camera) and will go with me for those occasions where "snapshots" might be the norm, like an upcoming family beach outing.
> 
> Carry your 5D and your 24-105 and put these into a nice shoulder bag like the TT Retrospective and enjoy your trip.



I am in the same boat about making use of my dslr. I'd be more likely to skimp by ONLY using a standard zoom (instead of a collection of primes), than worrying about the physical size/weight of my camera body. Either way the camera takes up a hand/shoulder... I'm fairly beefy compared to the average human being so maybe thats why I don't mind having my DSLR attached to me...

Along with the BR strap, its perfectly comfortable for me. And any shots that have to be quick and relatively unimportant, might as well use my phone. 

That was my well-thought-out justification for not cashing in on the $299 M deal anyway.... LOL. But its true though I think...


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## padmasana (Jul 26, 2013)

Well I do hope that Turkey is still intact for your trip ... 
There is no way I'd be happy going there without the 5D, and I think the M would be a good companion for when your wife tells you it's time to put away the 5D. :-[ :-[


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## davidcharding (Jul 26, 2013)

I was in Turkey a couple of years ago - took 5DC, 24-105 (& Zuiko 18mm, which I needn't have bothered with really)
My advice, for what it's worth - keep it simple - stick with the 5D.


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## spinworkxroy (Jul 26, 2013)

I too am going on a trip next week and also intend to travel light..well, travel light != carry light 
Basically, i'm still going to bring my 5D3 with my 24-70II and my 600EX flash..BUT those will be packed into the cabin luggage and not my backpack..
All i'm carrying on my back is my EOS M with the 22mm kit. 
For me, i'm only going to bring out the 5D when i know i'll need it…it's a matter of pre-planning the locations I'll be visiting or if i know there'll be a car to ferry me around, i'll bring along the 5D.
For most cases, i believe the M is enough.


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