# What are you the most *upset* about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

I may update the list, but let's see where everyone's head is on this. What's the big miss, bad call or feature omission that has you wound up with this leak?

- A 


COMPANION POLL -- what did you like?


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: What are you the most upset about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?*

You forgot the "I'm not upset at all this is the absolutely bestest most perfectest camera in the world" option. I'm sure that will be a popular one here on CR. 

Also, the "It still has a mirror. Stupid Canon," option should just be renamed AvTvM click here.


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## takesome1 (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: What are you the most upset about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?*

It is hard to be upset when you just don't care.


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: What are you the most upset about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?*



neuroanatomist said:


> You forgot the "I'm not upset at all this is the absolutely bestest most perfectest camera in the world" option. I'm sure that will be a popular one here on CR.
> 
> Also, the "It still has a mirror. Stupid Canon," option should just be renamed AvTvM click here.



Corrected. 

- A


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## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

I couldn't resist... 8)


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## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

what I'm most dissappointed about is some sort of EVF merging with the 5D series even from a simplistic hotshoe attached EVF standpoint.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> I couldn't resist... 8)



Careful what you vote for, as a joke or protest. Remember Brexit?


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> I couldn't resist... 8)



That's 2 in the AvTvM slot already!

#dude


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## kaihp (Aug 17, 2016)

Of the options given, I chose "FPS too low" because I was hoping for a lower-MP/higher-FPS camera than the leak says.

The 5D4's 'problem' for me is myself; I'm really not the target customer - I was looking for a more sports-oriented camera. The 5D3's AF system lured me over to FF from APS-C 5D3 in 2012, and after getting used to FF IQ, I cannot go back to APS-C, so in the end picking up a lightly used 1DX was the correct choice for me.

Maybe a 5D5 (in 2020) will be a suitable replacement for my 5D3 at the time.


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



As a man who obsessively follows this election and has about a thousand hashtags to add to that dumpster fire of a post, I shall refrain. 

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Of the options given, I chose "FPS too low" because I was hoping for a lower-MP/higher-FPS camera than the leak says.
> 
> The 5D4's 'problem' for me is myself; I'm really not the target customer - I was looking for a more sports-oriented camera. The 5D3's AF system lured me over to FF from APS-C 5D3 in 2012, and after getting used to FF IQ, I cannot go back to APS-C, so in the end picking up a lightly used 1DX was the correct choice for me.
> 
> Maybe a 5D5 (in 2020) will be a suitable replacement for my 5D3 at the time.



I wouldn't get your hopes up. Canon seems reluctant to offer a FF 1DX-lite. If you bird, chase varmints, etc. you have a choice of *1DX* or *crop 1DX*. That's it. They seem very reluctant to offer a 10-ish fps FF rig less than $6k.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: What are you the most upset about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?*



neuroanatomist said:


> Also, the "It still has a mirror. Stupid Canon," option should just be renamed AvTvM click here.



Haha, well that would imply much more. No mirror, no mechanical shutter, new mount, new lens lineup free from any moving parts.


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## kaihp (Aug 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> I wouldn't get your hopes up. Canon seems reluctant to offer a FF 1DX-lite.


Y'know that's exactly why I went for the used 1DX. Zero regrets here


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## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



i'm canadian and i'm following this trainwreck of an election.


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> i'm canadian and i'm following this trainwreck of an election.



The guy is a 9 year old with a poor temperament and we're going to give him nuclear weapons.

The _whole world_ is watching this trainwreck of an election.

- A

And, to reiterate (ahem):


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

Look, Porkins...it's the internet. You're pushing an unobtainable goal...


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## Act444 (Aug 17, 2016)

Selected the last option, although it should be emphasized that we are still in the rumor phase and without sample images and RAW files to play around with, can't know for sure if it's simply a minor adjustment needed or a total deal-breaker...

I'll reserve full judgment until I can see for myself how the camera performs.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

Isn't the last option sort of like saying, "Salary is too *high* -- I wanted best possible income instead of more money?" I have yet to see a convincing argument that more resolution is _worse_ than less resolution from an IQ standpoint. Depending on use case, it may be no better...but not worse. 

Now, if the issue was resolution too high, I'd have preferred 26 MP @ 8 fps with 36 frame RAW buffer instead of 30 MP @ 7 fps with 30 frame RAW buffer, that's a valid argument.


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## Sporgon (Aug 17, 2016)

Predictable psychology here: the 'upset' thread has a few replies, the 'pleased' thread zero. This demonstrates that it's much more fun to discuss what we dislike rather than what we like.......

It appears that the 5DIV won't take user interchangeable screens by the looks of the pictures of the front sans lens. Personally I'm surprised because Canon introduced this to the high end crop camera - the 7DII, and took it away from the mid range one, the 80D. 

Just why a 7DII would have this feature but not the FF 5D rather baffles me. I must assume that Canon MR shows that playing with manual lenses is mostly a hobbyist's practice, and that most hobbyists go for crop due to economics. 

So having been wrong about the 5DIV reintroducing the 'manual screen' option, I'm now guessing we will see it continued in the 6D line with the mark II.


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> Predictable psychology here: the 'upset' thread has a few replies, the 'pleased' thread zero. This demonstrates that it's much more fun to discuss what we dislike rather than what we like.......



True. No one wants to post 'yer damn right it has 4K because it _ought_ to'.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

Headline:

Canon delivers perfect camera. Internet goes silent.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > i'm canadian and i'm following this trainwreck of an election.
> ...



ahhhh comon.. just because he had NO CLUE what the nuclear triad is .. 

and trump said.. "why can't i use nuclear weapons??"

and Katrina was quoted as saying.. "what good is a nuclear triad if you are afraid to use it.. "

nothing at all to be afraid of. :

back on target.. 

the 5D Mark III has been admittedly after a few years .. everyone figured out that canon created one of the most well rounded cameras in the market.

everyone said it was a DISASTER when it was released.. same with the 6D

it's really hard to upgrade that and keep the same mentality and keep everyone happy.

However, there's no real new tech unless it's the RAW file format.

which is a bit of a downer, how long before we see a full marriage for video / liveview shooting and stills?


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## Eldar (Aug 17, 2016)

I find the information we have so far pointing at a very capable camera. My usual concern is manual focus capability, which I know nothing of yet. I fear it is the same rubbish we´ve had on the 5DIII and 5DS/R. However the main unanswered area is what the sensor will deliver. Noise, low light performance, DR etc. The new dual pixel feature is also intriguing. 

Things I don´t like is another new battery (unless old batteries can be charged on the new charger), new grip and the bloody SD card (I have just had another one falling apart ...). I am also amongst the minority who would have been happy with a flip screen. Very useful for macro and for portraits. Built in remote flash control would have been nice.


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

Eldar said:


> Built in remote flash control would have been nice.



I didn't even put this on the list as it's just pie in the sky. Thought about it including it, but I peg it as unreasonable as expecting 15-16 stops of DR. They just aren't there yet (or more likely) love selling transmitters as an upcharge.

- A


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## Diko (Aug 17, 2016)

We definitely need a post voting system in this forum. It's so lovely!

I have a few "likes" to hit.


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## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

Early read from 33 votes so far: no one is freaking out about one feature not being there. I'm not dismissing the tilty-flippy camp so much as they aren't 2/3 of the respondents. 

That tells me this might be the droid(balance of features/predictability/excitement) that we were looking for. The biggest one that would have angered folks would be withholding 4k from this rig (#1 with a bullet) and possibly if they kept the MP down in the 22-24 neighborhood. If either of those happened, especially if there was no 4K, I'd expect that to be 75% of respondents or higher.

Of course, all bets are off once Sony or Nikon poops on the 5D4 sensor at DXO. Then everyone will hate Canon again regardless of the 5D4 value proposition. 

- A


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## mistaspeedy (Aug 17, 2016)

I think the sensor will be behind current Nikon and Sony bodies, unless they have some secret new quality improving feature in their new dual pixel RAW format... whatever it turns out to be.

My guess as to what the extra pixels could do is as follows (done on your PC):

1) Average two adjacent pixels for noise-reduction purposes.
2) Create a 120 megapixel image from the data... there will be full information for width (our original 60 megapixels of data), but height information could be interpolated.
3) I doubt the ISO of the pixels can be independently changed... if one set of pixels is natively more/less sensitive than the rest, then we can have dual-ISO... which should significantly boost dynamic range if implemented correctly.
4) As already mentioned, using 60-megapixels of data to create a 30 megapixel image by using a new and improved de-bayering algorithm... could add additional sharpness.


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## Refurb7 (Aug 17, 2016)

My 5D3 has been exquisitely good. So good that I've used the heck out of it, and the photos continue to rock. If the 5D4 is as good or better, then I'll be "upset" with absolutely nothing about it.


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## K (Aug 17, 2016)

It isn't a 50MP 1DX2 with 15 stops of DR and 120 fps uncropped 4K uncompressed, 100% functional touch screen and EVF.


8)


If the Canon logo was removed from the 5D4, and replaced by a Sony logo - they would hail it as one of the greatest cameras. 

Let's face it, Team Sony has far better (louder, more dedicated) troll squad promoting their gear and bashing others across the internet. Canon owners are too busy creating good photos to hone those skills.


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## 9VIII (Aug 17, 2016)

I'd say zebra stripes are the biggest omission.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 17, 2016)

Price! The upgrades/feature evolution is as expected, so it comes down to how the value compares to existing 5DIII. As a consumer, the price is ALWAYS too high! 

I'll wait for the reviews before deciding whether or not the 5DIV is worth the upgrade. Then I'll wait for a good price from gray market sellers. When the 5DIII specs came out, there were many that felt that it wasn't a large upgrade from the 5DII and when the 6D specs came out, many predicted that they preferred a 5DII to a 6D... and yet the 5DIII and 6D were successful. Canon rarely wins the spec headline race, but their cameras just work. I have no idea what this new "dual pixel raw" thing is, but I'll be interested to see how it performs against the 5DIII and against its competitors.


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## docsmith (Aug 17, 2016)

Ha...this is hilarious. We are voting on an unannounced/unreleased camera based on rumored specs....but it is Canon RUMORs.

Overall seems very solid. I voted fps. I am a 5DIII owner and may upgrade at some point. A couple of features would make that upgrade sooner rather than later and out of your list more fps would have interested me. 

That said, I am very curious as to the benefits of the dual pixel readout, if that is the new thing. I am hoping it can be turned on/off as I do not want >60MB files. If that happens, the 5DsR is my next camera.

But, seems like a solid entry. Seems to fit nicely between the 1DX II, what I expect from the 6DII and the 5DsR.

I am excited to get it into some testers/reviewers hands and get a look at what it can do.


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## mclaren777 (Aug 17, 2016)

I think the 5D4 sounds great and I plan to order two of them once pre-orders begin.

So for me, the only real downside is the need for a new grip and batteries.


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## Ozarker (Aug 17, 2016)

docsmith said:


> Ha...this is hilarious. We are voting on an unannounced/unreleased camera based on rumored specs....but it is Canon RUMORs.
> 
> Overall seems very solid. I voted fps. I am a 5DIII owner and may upgrade at some point. A couple of features would make that upgrade sooner rather than later and out of your list more fps would have interested me.
> 
> ...



The 70D, 80D, and 1DX II have DPAF. Presumably (I hope so) the upcoming 5D Mark IV will have it. It does not double file size. It actually does not affect file size at all. It is for live view touch screen focusing.


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## YuengLinger (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm upset that it lacks a simultaneous release with an ef 50mm 1.2 L II.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 17, 2016)

8bit vs 10bit video
no 60fps 4k

the other stuff I might be upset about are how the DR turns out and whether they leave out basic, basic usability features like 100% zoomed box and zebras, but the leaked specs don't really hint one way or the other


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## Click (Aug 18, 2016)

...Only 54 votes. Come on guys.


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## Bennymiata (Aug 18, 2016)

I'd still love a flippy screen, especially for macro.


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## AlanF (Aug 18, 2016)

It has an AA filter. After the 5DS R, there's no going back for me. I'll wait until the R version or the next generation.


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## docsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > That said, I am very curious as to the benefits of the dual pixel readout, if that is the new thing. I am hoping it can be turned on/off as I do not want >60MB files. If that happens, the 5DsR is my next camera.
> ...



Read out from both of the dual pixels, not DPAF. The rumor is new bayer filter and ability to record information from each. 

"ever possible to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file (bad translation)
There has been lots of debate what Dual Pixel RAW actually means, so we’re going to wait until we see an official explanation from a Canon document."

Another translation by member Shunsai "That expression Google translated as "ever possible to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file" is "これまでに無い後処理の調整が可能なデュアルピクセルRAWファイル" which might be better translated as "Editable Dual Pixel RAW files (a feature which was previously unavailable up to now)"

All I am saying is I am interested in the feature, but not if it results in >60 MB files all the time. Thus, turning it on and off


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## tcmatthews (Aug 18, 2016)

I put No tilty-flippy screen because I really want a full frame Canon camera with one. I am sure the camera will make many of the target audience happy. But personally I want a more compact model with all of the stated features and a flip screen. The 5D bodies are just too big for my tastes. At least as a primary body. I really want a compact pro camera that nobody is currently making.

Now waiting the approximate 6 to 8 months to see what the 6D II offers. if it does not knock it out of the park my next camera is likely an upgrade to my Sony A7II.


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## Ozarker (Aug 18, 2016)

I picked FPS is too low. Was hoping for 10 FPS.


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## Click (Aug 18, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I picked FPS is too low. Was hoping for 10 FPS.



+1


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## gsealy (Aug 18, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> 8bit vs 10bit video
> no 60fps 4k
> 
> the other stuff I might be upset about are how the DR turns out and whether they leave out basic, basic usability features like 100% zoomed box and zebras, but the leaked specs don't really hint one way or the other



This and a better codec with external 4K recording. Not supporting CFast 2 limits any possible upside by ML. Major fail on Canon's part. The current weak video specs mean I will not buy it. No biggie, there are more camera alternatives coming. I don't want to invest any money in less than broadcast quality video.


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## Don Haines (Aug 18, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Price is too high.



+1

It doesn't matter how good it is if you can't (or wont) afford it....


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## s2kdriver80 (Aug 18, 2016)

Was hoping the 5D4 had RF master capability for Speedlites.


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

tcmatthews said:


> I put No tilty-flippy screen because I really want a full frame Canon camera with one. I am sure the camera will make many of the target audience happy. But personally I want a more compact model with all of the stated features and a flip screen. The 5D bodies are just too big for my tastes. At least as a primary body. I really want a compact pro camera that nobody is currently making.
> 
> Now waiting the approximate 6 to 8 months to see what the 6D II offers. if it does not knock it out of the park my next camera is likely an upgrade to my Sony A7II.



If the 6D2 does not get a tilty-flippy, I'll eat my shirt. 

- A


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## KeithBreazeal (Aug 18, 2016)

Perfectly happy reading new posts about nothing that matters at this time.
I'll read every post studiously when The 5D Mark IV is in the hands of legitimate 
photographers and posting worthy photos/comments that illustrate the improvements
or lack there of. 
I should have my 5 cords of firewood spilt and stacked by that time.


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## doog (Aug 18, 2016)

I shoot sporty animal action, birds, with 5D3 and 7D2. I wanted a faster burst-rate, intelligent focus-aware spot metering, but I'll be happy I'm sure.
Does Canon have a tick-tock development cycle? The 5D2 was bitterly disappointing to me, with a frame rate barely suitable for gecko-races, and no improvement in the primitive 5D autofocus (yeah, OK, vastly better IQ, and that video thing). Then came the 5D3, a major tock. I'm resigned that the 5D4 may be just a tick on that awesome tock.


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## LoneRider (Aug 18, 2016)

The one spec of interest that is not listed is FPS in live view, could we see a 1 to 3 FPS boost there as on the 1DX-ii??

And I must admit I have been converted to the flippy screen camp. But considering I am moving from a 7D that is likely in bad need of a cleaning to a 5Div, I am sure I am going to be in love.


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## Click (Aug 18, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Price is too high.
> ...


 

+2


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Price is too high.
> ...



Yep, I left price out because we don't have a read on that yet. Still just estimates.

- A


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > I put No tilty-flippy screen because I really want a full frame Canon camera with one. I am sure the camera will make many of the target audience happy. But personally I want a more compact model with all of the stated features and a flip screen. The 5D bodies are just too big for my tastes. At least as a primary body. I really want a compact pro camera that nobody is currently making.
> ...


I'm gonna hold you to this


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> *The one spec of interest that is not listed is FPS in live view, could we see a 1 to 3 FPS boost there as on the 1DX-ii??*
> 
> And I must admit I have been converted to the flippy screen camp. But considering I am moving from a 7D that is likely in bad need of a cleaning to a 5Div, I am sure I am going to be in love.


I was gonna tick the in "fps too slow" box, but given the earlier rumor of faster fps in live view I decided to vote with the "missing video feature" crowd.

I think compressed internal 4K (either AVC or HEVC) would be good to have as an alternative to MJPEG.

Is HDMI-out rumored to be limited to 1080p or will it also do 4K out?


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## Maiaibing (Aug 18, 2016)

Resolution *is in itself* an essential part of picture IQ. So that option needs to be rephrased.

No vote here since we do not know what that double RAW file will do. 

To me it seems the most promising spec of the entire camera. Could be the "killer" spec for me if it does what I hope it can do; high ISO IQ jump (I'll probably also go with increased DR even if that's the only thing it does).


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## Wick (Aug 18, 2016)

:-\
Like an idiot, I went out and bought a CFast card and reader just in case there was a run on them after the announcement. Feeling kind of foolish.


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

s2kdriver80 said:


> Was hoping the 5D4 had RF master capability for Speedlites.



There is exactly a zero percent chance the 5D4 gets this after the 1DX2 didn't get it.

Didn't even put it on this list as I think it's too pie-in-the-sky unreasonable to expect. But feel free to vote for... 

_"The 'never done before in an SLR' feature (dual pixel raw) turned out to be something I wasn't that interested in. Was hoping this feature would be something more exciting" 
_
...if that truly was the killer thing you wanted with this.

- A


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## Ozarker (Aug 18, 2016)

docsmith said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > docsmith said:
> ...



Oh! Thanks for the explanation!


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## IglooEater (Aug 18, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Price is too high.



Gonna have to agree with you on that one.. I was hoping for sub 3500CAD, but it's sounding like it'll be well north of 4000.


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## Ozarker (Aug 18, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Price is too high.
> ...



You had me at "can't" Mr. Haines  The other thing is that I have not even scratched the surface with the Mark III I got last fall.  I'll need about three more years of learnin'.


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## Ozarker (Aug 18, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Perfectly happy reading new posts about nothing that matters at this time.
> I'll read every post studiously when The 5D Mark IV is in the hands of legitimate
> photographers and posting worthy photos/comments that illustrate the improvements
> or lack there of.
> I should have my 5 cords of firewood spilt and stacked by that time.



Hey! Don't hate on the photographers whose dads didn't marry their moms!


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## Ozarker (Aug 18, 2016)

doog said:


> I shoot sporty animal action, birds, with 5D3 and 7D2. I wanted a faster burst-rate, intelligent focus-aware spot metering, but I'll be happy I'm sure.
> Does Canon have a tick-tock development cycle? The 5D2 was bitterly disappointing to me, with a frame rate barely suitable for gecko-races, and no improvement in the primitive 5D autofocus (yeah, OK, vastly better IQ, and that video thing). Then came the 5D3, a major tock. I'm resigned that the 5D4 may be just a tick on that awesome tock.



Canon is *******. Sony.


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## TAF (Aug 19, 2016)

For me, the lack of improvement in ISO is the disappointment. That and no info on more 'higher F number' cross point focus points.

I was hoping for expansion H2 to be 408K, with 102K being the highest 'useable' non-expansion value.

If they continue on this trend of making F4 lenses the new normal (instead of F2.8's or faster), then I expect them to improve their cross point focus points, and give us more ISO.


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## ahsanford (Aug 19, 2016)

TAF said:


> For me, the lack of improvement in ISO is the disappointment. That and no info on more 'higher F number' cross point focus points.
> 
> I was hoping for expansion H2 to be 408K, with 102K being the highest 'useable' non-expansion value.
> 
> If they continue on this trend of making F4 lenses the new normal (instead of F2.8's or faster), then I expect them to improve their cross point focus points, and give us more ISO.



We really don't know enough about the AF system at present -- just the number of points. I'd really be stunned if they didn't give the 5D4 the 1DX2's spread of f/8 AF compatibility. The 1DX and 5D3 mirrored each other's AF systems very closely, so I expect the same with the 1DX2 to the 5D4.

- A


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## rrcphoto (Aug 19, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> TAF said:
> 
> 
> > For me, the lack of improvement in ISO is the disappointment. That and no info on more 'higher F number' cross point focus points.
> ...



I thought the latest rumors said f/8 on all points.


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## bholliman (Aug 19, 2016)

Nothing to be upset about, it will be what it is. If it offers enough features that interest me I will eventually buy one. If not, I won't.


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## ahsanford (Aug 19, 2016)

bholliman said:


> Nothing to be upset about, it will be what it is. If it offers enough features that interest me I will eventually buy one. If not I wont.



#yoda #zenshopper 

- A


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## bholliman (Aug 19, 2016)

TAF said:


> For me, the lack of improvement in ISO is the disappointment. That and no info on more 'higher F number' cross point focus points.
> 
> I was hoping for expansion H2 to be 408K, with 102K being the highest 'useable' non-expansion value.
> 
> If they continue on this trend of making F4 lenses the new normal (instead of F2.8's or faster), then I expect them to improve their cross point focus points, and give us more ISO.



How can you be disappointed in (high) ISO performance when its an unknown at this point. It really doesn't matter what the maximum ISO settings are in the camera, what matters is the maximum "usable" value. The Nikon D5 have a maximum ISO setting of 3.3 million, but from all the reviews pictures are complete garbage that high. Based on Canon's recent sensors in the 1Dx MkII and 80D, I expect the high ISO performance to be very competitive with Nikon and Sony.


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## ahsanford (Aug 19, 2016)

bholliman said:


> TAF said:
> 
> 
> > For me, the lack of improvement in ISO is the disappointment. That and no info on more 'higher F number' cross point focus points.
> ...



<rough paraphrasing>

You are correct, of course, but some folks extrapolate _*what Canon allows you to do*_ (i.e. published limits) with _*what you'd be happy with the output of*._ Though we know the proof's in the pudding and testing will dictate the true low light performance, Canon has a B/B+ kind of track record on not posting absurd ISO limits like Nikon does. 

So, just using their published limits as a rough read, and assuming their internal standards haven't changed, you could very roughly assume that with the same 'extended' max value as the 5D3, we won't getting 1-2 stops better high iso performance over the 5D3.

</rough paraphrasing>

- A


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## GMCPhotographics (Aug 19, 2016)

For me, it's the lack of interchangeable screens. When using a 85L wide open, I can literally see what's in focus with my fine focus screen in my 5DII. With a view finder dof limited to just over f2.8...I can't see what's in focus and what's slightly off. Which is why I still carry a 5DII....and it's good for coastal shots where salt water is likely and I don't want to use an expensive to replace camera.


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## ahsanford (Aug 19, 2016)

GMCPhotographics said:


> For me, it's the lack of interchangeable screens. When using a 85L wide open, I can literally see what's in focus with my fine focus screen in my 5DII. With a view finder dof limited to just over f2.8...I can't see what's in focus and what's slightly off. Which is why I still carry a 5DII....and it's good for coastal shots where salt water is likely and I don't want to use an expensive to replace camera.



Again, this we don't know yet. What a camera cannot do -- e.g. _"We still haven't put interchangeable screens back into the design"_ -- is not exactly something you see on a spec sheet. 

I presume we won't know this until we get an actual 5D4 manual and see what focusing screens are/are not offered, or perhaps if someone hits up Chuck Westfall at a meeting, Reddit AMA, etc.

- A


----------



## ashmadux (Aug 19, 2016)

I really want a flippy screen- guess ill have to still get a 80d (feels so cheap   ) The same base 5d3 + an image improvement would have been heaven.

Otherwise...With EVERY AREA updated...i'm happy as a hog. 

7fps is perfect- not too much, not too little. I do worry about that dual pixel thing- as a lightroom user, it's going to be locked to lightroom cc or some scheme they come up with.

Chances are adobe is going to struggle with adapting it. No way im using DPP in my workflow, it's just a crap piece of software.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 19, 2016)

ashmadux said:


> I really want a flippy screen- guess ill have to still get a 80d (feels so cheap   ) The same base 5d3 + an image improvement would have been heaven.
> 
> Otherwise...With EVERY AREA updated...i'm happy as a hog.
> 
> ...


The leaked specs seem to indicate that it will have Wifi. Given the 80D's amazing control-over-wifi capabilities, I won't miss the articulating screen at all. My mobile phone will easily out-rotate an articulating screen and if I need to use two hands on camera all I need is a inexpensive hot-shoe-mount mobile-phone holder... so for me the lack of articulating screen is not a train-smash.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 20, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> The leaked specs seem to indicate that it will have Wifi. Given the 80D's amazing control-over-wifi capabilities, I won't miss the articulating screen at all.



Only thing I wonder is if the wifi connection with the EOS Utility app will be able to control active servo DPAF Auto Focusing during video. I don't have a DPAF model, so I have no clue. Anyone? If it can, That would be amazing. But my 6D with Wifi is honestly so damn slow and unreliable I stopped even trying to use it.


----------



## TAF (Aug 20, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > TAF said:
> ...




I missed that; thank you for pointing it out.

That's better...


----------



## TAF (Aug 20, 2016)

bholliman said:


> TAF said:
> 
> 
> > For me, the lack of improvement in ISO is the disappointment. That and no info on more 'higher F number' cross point focus points.
> ...




'Complete garbage', but you captured an image, vs. you got nothing, is still something.

I've been doing 'available light' for 45 years, and well remember the days of 2475 Recording Film. So what reviewers of today (many of whom weren't born when I was pushing film to 8000 ASA in HC-110) consider complete garbage is often times quite useable to me.

Thing is, I don't want "very competitive with Nikon and Sony", I want Canon to crush them (as we know they can, with some of the special cameras that have been demonstrated).

Ergo: disappointment.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 20, 2016)

TAF said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > TAF said:
> ...



what you are asking for is nearly impossible, the sensors are so much in diminishing returns now - gains will be small if that.


----------



## WeekendWarrior (Aug 20, 2016)

Should have 8-9 FPS instead of 7.. Seems pretty slow considering it's only 1 fps faster than the current model which is years old. Besides that everything looks ok as long as the quality and DR check out


----------



## justawriter (Aug 20, 2016)

... that no one will buy me one for Christmas.   :


----------



## Talley (Aug 20, 2016)

i responded with lack of FPS because I wanted 8 but I'm OK with 7.

Outside of that this is the perfect camera ever.


----------



## daniela (Aug 20, 2016)

For me, the plus of €500 is the point that makes me upset. €3200 would have been ok. €3500 acceptable. But €3800 a little bit to much. 
Maybe this feeling occurs, because someone mentioned 3200 some days before....

Especially when our friends form Sony release their competitor with their well known higher DR and IQ some of us will moan. Moan again when Sonny will deliver an Megapixel bang...


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 21, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Only thing I wonder is if the wifi connection with the EOS Utility app will be able to control active servo DPAF Auto Focusing during video. I don't have a DPAF model, so I have no clue. Anyone? If it can, That would be amazing. But my 6D with Wifi is honestly so damn slow and unreliable I stopped even trying to use it.



Yes you can. Just tap anywhere on your phone screen, it works just like tapping the camera touchscreen.


----------



## masterpix (Aug 21, 2016)

The only thing once can be "upset" about is the price (I would like this camera to be free or close to that, but that is a personal wish). 

Apart from that? higher ISO? 102K is shooting in total darkness and getting a "daylight" picture (and be honest with yourself, how many pictures you take at that ISO daily?) Once they kept the ISO and managed to reduce noise at 30Mp... who can be upset about that. It is much better to have reduced noise 102K image than useless 3M ISO noisy picture, quality is preferred to quantity in this case.


----------



## fentiger (Aug 21, 2016)

For me it would be the shutter life, rated for 150000, a bit in the skinny side when you consider the 1DX2 is rated for 400000


----------



## rcarca (Aug 21, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> No vote here since we do not know what that double RAW file will do.
> 
> To me it seems the most promising spec of the entire camera. Could be the "killer" spec for me if it does what I hope it can do; high ISO IQ jump (I'll probably also go with increased DR even if that's the only thing it does).



+1


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 21, 2016)

fentiger said:


> For me it would be the shutter life, rated for 150000, a bit in the skinny side when you consider the 1DX2 is rated for 400000


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 21, 2016)

I'm upset that the x-sync is still only 1/200th of a second


----------



## George D. (Aug 21, 2016)

If there's an "upset" poll there should be a "content" poll too otherwise you're biased and better join SONY Rumors instead. ;D


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 21, 2016)

George D. said:


> If there's an "upset" poll there should be a "content" poll too otherwise you're biased and better join SONY Rumors instead. ;D



There is a "content" poll. Go have a look


----------



## SteveM (Aug 21, 2016)

Can't decide if I am disappointed or pleased. Disappointed such that there is nothing in the spec (not a video shooter) that interests me at all - insignificant increases. Pleased such that I will now have the cash available to increase my holiday spec, or book another couple of holidays.
The Mklll shoots a clean image (my opinion) at 3200iso, if the MklV can shoot an identical image at at least 6400 ISO they will have my attention. It will also need to retain the ability to at least get an image at 51200 ISO - a very noisy image is better than no image.
I'd hazard a guess that they've almost squeezed all they can from the current sensors and a major breakthrough is needed in sensor technology, probably a completely new sensor, before any significant changes in performance will be seen. Realistically, that is probably what I will wait for now.
I've stayed on the merry go round for the 5D; 5D mkll and 5D Mklll, it's time to jump off now. Gotta go, on my way to the travel agents before they close, mmmm I do like the Italian Lakes....


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 21, 2016)

George D. said:


> If there's an "upset" poll there should be a "content" poll too otherwise you're biased and better join SONY Rumors instead. ;D



The happy/excited poll is here:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30527.0

- A


----------



## tron (Aug 23, 2016)

Wick said:


> :-\
> Like an idiot, I went out and bought a CFast card and reader just in case there was a run on them after the announcement. Feeling kind of foolish.


Not so fast! I could suggest a way for you to not feel foolish. It is kind of *expensive* though. I leave it to your imagination ;D


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Aug 23, 2016)

tron said:


> Wick said:
> 
> 
> > :-\
> ...



So was the 5DIII at launch...in fact...so was the 5DII...come to think about it...the 5D was pretty steep at launch too.


----------



## tron (Aug 23, 2016)

GMCPhotographics said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Wick said:
> ...


Well what I was thinking for someone to take advantage of a CFast card a reader is a little more expensive than 5DIII or 5DIV ;D


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 25, 2016)

Well now that it's official I have my set of grievances:
1) SD card slot is limited to UHS I. This is a huge disappointment.
2) Live view shooting speed is 4.3fps with Servo AF. Would have hoped it could match 7fps in live view or maybe shoot a bit faster like 8-10fps
3) No full frame 4K, I'm interested in getting into video so would have loved full frame 4K even if it was only at 24p.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 25, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> Well now that it's official I have my set of grievances:
> 1) SD card slot is limited to UHS I. This is a huge disappointment.
> 2) Live view shooting speed is 4.3fps with Servo AF. Would have hoped it could match 7fps in live view or maybe shoot a bit faster like 8-10fps
> 3) No full frame 4K, I'm interested in getting into video so would have loved full frame 4K even if it was only at 24p.



The _*1DX2*_ doesn't even have full-frame 4k -- they crop around 1.3, right? And the two 4K Nikons are not better in that regard -- I think I read that the D5 (their flagship) was 1.5-ish.

But yeah, the slower burst in LiveView (mirror-up, after all) is a bit shocking. I don't shoot burst in liveview, but I could see how some folks would be really let down by that.

- A


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 25, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > Well now that it's official I have my set of grievances:
> ...


My list was in order of what I found most disappointing.

Being at number three I'm not overly upset about cropped 4K, just saying it would have been nice. In general, cinema cameras aren't full frame sensors so they are all usually some form of crop. In the spirit of giveth and taketh away (or more accurately includeth and omitteth on purpoth) I was just hoping that Canon would offer full frame as they were obviously going to omit zebras, peaking and c-log.


----------



## Diko (Aug 25, 2016)

Inwant to change my vote to hell too expensive.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 25, 2016)

Diko said:


> Inwant to change my vote to hell too expensive.



The poll is closed. 

And I think 700 angry videographers would swarm this poll if I re-opened it... Something about being forced to buy some really wide EF mount lenses all of a sudden. :

- A


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 27, 2016)

obviously i voted "still a stupid mirrorslapper, so stupid of you, Canon!" 
lmagine the 5D4 specs in an A7 sized mirrorless cam ... 

second is the totally ludicrous euro msrp: € 4,065 ... utter madness. 5d was 1900, 5d2 was 2700, 5d3 was 3400, 5d4 is 4065. stupid, canon. ot will severely limit unit sales in europe. north of 4k € was 1D territory not too long ago.

third comes no fully articulated lcd. stupid, conservative canon. they do not break nearly as often as claimed by stupid, conservative canon mirrorslapper fanbois.


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 27, 2016)

btw: are active AF fields now lit? 
are buttons backlit? 
is a radio-wireless RT flash controller built in? 
is the SD slot UHS-II enabled?
spot metering linked to active AF field?
is viewfinder cover built-in?


no no no ? how stupid, Canon!


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 27, 2016)

Responding in-line below:



AvTvM said:


> btw: are active AF fields now lit? Surely, they fixed the black Servo AF points, right? We just need one hands-on video to confirm that.
> 
> are buttons backlit? This is a clear let down albeit a small one. I wanted this as well.
> 
> ...



All in all, I'm peeved (but not surprised) about spot metering and thought backlit buttons might happen in a 2016 camera but the rest of what you have doesn't wind me up that much. I also don't understand how being only +2 fps higher than the 50 MP rig is a fair tradeoff. I appreciate keeping the FPS to a pedestrian level, but I honestly thought we'd see 8-9 FPS.

Still looks like a formidable upgrade, and if the on-chip ADC is as good as hoped + this DPRAW stuff, I'm confident it will sell as well as the 5D3.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 27, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ...I'm confident it will sell as well as the 5D3.



Inconceivable!

The Mirror is dead. Long live the Mirror!


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 27, 2016)

i expect it will not sell (nearly as) well (as 5D3) in europe ... unless price drops well below msrp very soon.
> 4k € is an outrageous price for a good, but not still only mid-level mainstream mirrorslapper.


----------



## tron (Aug 27, 2016)

I Agree about the price. We will just have to wait at least 6 months and ... buy gray...


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Perfectly happy reading new posts about nothing that matters at this time.
> I'll read every post studiously when The 5D Mark IV is in the hands of legitimate
> photographers and posting worthy photos/comments that illustrate the improvements
> or lack there of.
> I should have my 5 cords of firewood spilt and stacked by that time.



Ooh, now you're talking! That's a lot of wood!


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

TAF said:


> For me, the lack of improvement in ISO is the disappointment. That and no info on more 'higher F number' cross point focus points.
> 
> I was hoping for expansion H2 to be 408K, with 102K being the highest 'useable' non-expansion value.
> 
> If they continue on this trend of making F4 lenses the new normal (instead of F2.8's or faster), then I expect them to improve their cross point focus points, and give us more ISO.



Does any camera have 'usable' ISO 102400? Everybody's definition of usable varies, but I've not seen anyone claiming that setting is usable except in extremis even on the 1Dx(II)/D5/A7s.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

TAF said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > TAF said:
> ...



Sorry, I should have read the whole thread before replying just before.

I've seen it said a fair few times that we are very close to the theoretical best high ISO performance already. The super duper low light Canon video camera is 2MP full frame - that extra performance can't really be leveraged in a modern DSLR (sensor experts - right??).


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 28, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> i expect it will not sell (nearly as) well (as 5D3) in europe ... unless price drops well below msrp very soon.
> > 4k € is an outrageous price for a good, but not still only mid-level mainstream *mirrorslapper*.


Hint: It's more efficient to type four letters "DSLR" 
You're welcome.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

MrDill said:


> I was really looking forward to being able to do Timelapse with this camera, but according to the manual one can only shoot up to 99 photos for Timelapse (Interval Timer).
> 
> Why stop at 99? How useless is that!
> 
> CANON, please fix this problem with a firmware update.



Are you sure it's not a typo? I imagine the time lapse function will be the same as in, e.g. the 5Ds, which is limited to 3600 shots.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 28, 2016)

MrDill said:


> I was really looking forward to being able to do Timelapse with this camera, but according to the manual one can only shoot up to 99 photos for Timelapse (Interval Timer).
> 
> Why stop at 99? How useless is that!
> 
> CANON, please fix this problem with a firmware update.


Read the manual properly.


----------



## telemaq76 (Aug 28, 2016)

i readed nothing about silent mode. The great 5d3 silent mode is on the 5d4 too?


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 28, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Responding in-line below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are backlit buttons really an issue? Most of the time I rely on muscle memory when I'm wondering around in the dark while doing astro. Also having the customiz-able quick control menu allows you to place numerous important-to-you items for quick access on LCD. Come to think of it the LCD is a touch screen, which is back-lit. Does that count as giving you back-lit buttons???


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 28, 2016)

telemaq76 said:


> i readed nothing about silent mode. The great 5d3 silent mode is on the 5d4 too?


Silent continuous is my default drive mode.  According to the manual 5D-IV can do 3fps in silent continuous and it can also do silent single shot.


----------



## John2016 (Aug 28, 2016)

For Photography YES
Videography NO (google it: majority of people say NO)

1.64 crop (On a 4k -full frame camera???)
No Canon LOG
No 4K HDMI output
MJPEG codec (1990 CODEC) 
No Slow motion in FullHD or 4K
Internal FullHD recording only 4:2:0 (2016 right?)
No Metabones Speed Booster
No articulated screen

THIS IS THE END OF THE LEGEND FOR CANON!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 28, 2016)

John2016 said:


> THIS IS THE END OF THE LEGEND FOR CANON!



YAPODFC. :


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 28, 2016)

John2016 said:


> For Photography YES
> Videography NO (google it: majority of people say NO)
> 
> 1.64 crop (On a 4k -full frame camera???)
> ...


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 28, 2016)

AF point is illuminated according to the manual. The AF all looks extremely close to the 1DX II.

Jack


----------



## John2016 (Aug 28, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > For Photography YES
> ...



:-*
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test
http://philipbloom.net/blog/canon5div/

My biggest disappointment with the release of the Canon 5D MKIV is with the video specs.

"For a camera that will have a shelf life of 4 years probably what it gives the user is simply not good enough. Here are the issues:
The 4K is not full frame, it is not even 1.3x crop like the 1DC. It is 1.74x crop which is HUGE. Whilst the depth of field technically won’t be affected by such a crop the field of view is. To replicate the filed of view of a Canon 85mm F1.2 you will need to look at the 50mm F1.2 and your depth of field will be substantially less shallow because of that. This sucks.
The 4K is only up to 30p. The rather nice 1DX MKII that came out earlier this year recorded 4K up to 50p/ 60p and it was with a 1.3x crop like the 1DC.
There is no 4K HDMI out so you are stuck with the ancient motion jpeg format in 4K.
The 4K is DCI 4096×3840, there is no option for UHD 3840×2160
The HD is ALL-I and not motion JPEG (good!), whilst we do get 1080p 50p/60p which which is fine… the 120fps There are no proper video functions that really should be in there. There is no C-Log mode. There is no peaking, there are no zebras. There is still no punch in focus check whilst recording. It’s quite astonishing. I had been asking Canon for peaking on my 1DC for years. It never came."


----------



## Andrew Davies Photography (Aug 28, 2016)

My biggest hurdle in spending this much on a new body is how much better high ISO results i will get , looking at the manual AUTO ISO range is now 100-12800 instead of 100-6400 which if that meant 12800 is now as good as 6400 would be a significant increase but I think i will be waiting for some sample images to see if that's the case.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

I still don't completely get the issue with the crop factor? Aren't a majority of DSLR sales APS-C? Are all APS-C crop cameras (or those with even smaller sensors) doing 4K DOA?

(I get that you might be upset because this is a FF camera and you feel short changed that it acts as a crop in 4K mode, but that's a slightly different point).


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 28, 2016)

scyrene said:


> I still don't completely get the issue with the crop factor? Aren't a majority of DSLR sales APS-C? Are all APS-C crop cameras (or those with even smaller sensors) doing 4K DOA?
> 
> (I get that you might be upset because this is a FF camera and you feel short changed that it acts as a crop in 4K mode, but that's a slightly different point).



Probably people are mostly annoyed because the FF lenses they already own now have awkward and unfamiliar focal lengths, especially at the wide end where you need something like the expensive 11-24/4 to emulate your 16-35mm... And using Canon's own crop lenses is not possible so that's not a solution either.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 28, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> AF point is illuminated according to the manual. The AF all looks extremely close to the 1DX II.
> 
> Jack



:'( Seems I was wrong :'( I'd like to know if the illumination, I know I did see some in a Canon promotional, is just the little blink I get, and often don't seem to get, with my 6D.

Jack


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't completely get the issue with the crop factor? Aren't a majority of DSLR sales APS-C? Are all APS-C crop cameras (or those with even smaller sensors) doing 4K DOA?
> ...



Thanks! The issue about needing new lenses for the widest end I totally get, especially given the price of the 11-24. Although out of interest, is a lot of filming done at 16-20ish mm FF equivalent? Another thought: buying a third party ultrawide lens is cheaper than getting a dedicated videocamera.

As for awkward and unfamiliar, well there may be a touch of that, but it's only the same as mounting a FF lens on a crop camera. People are fairly used to multiplying by 1.6x (or at least roughly understanding the difference), surely.

Full disclosure: as I said elsewhere, I'm most interested in maximising the reach on distant targets, so a crop is actually an advantage.

Just musing, anyhow.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 28, 2016)

Yes, I was just musing that given I own the 11-24 (it becomes more modestly wide) and also prefer maximizing reach, since I'm generally using a big white, I like this crop characteristic. After all, I'm forced into cropping maybe 60% of the time with my subjects that are usually birds.

Jack


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 28, 2016)

John2016 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...



so?

anyone that was surprised with what the 5D had as far as video after the 1DX Mark II came out .. is a little surprising.

I like philip bloom, and respect his opinion .. but I don't think canon see's this market as an important one.

Sony which is trying to "hit this market" hasn't increased it's marketshare AT ALL over the last 5 years.

so I think canon's looking at it.. and saying .. it's not worth it.

not to mention, there's absolutely no proof and only conjecture that it's even possible for canon to marry both camera control DiGiC and video camera control DiGiC's together. I find it AMAZING how many proclaimed experts in what canon can do or can't do fail to realize that those are two separate products entirely.

are they going to turn the 5D Mark IV into the XC10 that can't even shoot raw? LOL!

really .. all your comments make me think you need this more..


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 28, 2016)

I like that! ;D I think there is someone around that I could borrow from or maybe just rip off some unsuspecting baby.

Jack


----------



## Gino (Aug 28, 2016)

I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!! 

I know the jump to 30MP is pretty significant, but 7fps is not exactly lightning fast, so I would think Canon could of gave us a RAW buffer with at least 30 photos before it's full. 

If Canon would have used Cfast card, and SD card with UHS-II, they could have gave us more fps, or at the very least a bigger buffer at the current 7 fps...I would have gladly paid for the extra cost if Canon used the better memory card technology!!!


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

Gino said:


> I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!!
> 
> I know the jump to 30MP is pretty significant, but 7fps is not exactly lightning fast, so I would think Canon could of gave us a RAW buffer with at least 30 photos before it's full.
> 
> If Canon would have used Cfast card, and SD card with UHS-II, they could have gave us more fps, or at the very least a bigger buffer at the current 7 fps...I would have gladly paid for the extra cost if Canon used the better memory card technology!!!



Wait, didn't someone say above (or elsewhere) that 21 was the buffer size - that's to say the number of photos it can hold simultaneously? Images aren't written all at once, but one after another, so the actual number of shots you can take before it starts to slow down is slightly larger. Right?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 28, 2016)

Gino said:


> I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!!


you do realize that the 5d Mark III in specs was 13-18 .. right? get fast cards and you should be fine.

the buffer depth specs are always underrated.


----------



## Gino (Aug 28, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!!
> ...



yeah, the 5D Mark III buffer is terrible, if you want to shoot full RAW photos to both card slots at the same time, which I always do.... I like to have a back-up RAW photo with the SD slot, just in case the CF card has issues. 

The 5D MarkIV caps out at 21 RAW photos to the CF card and 19 RAW photos to the SD card (page 171 of the product manual), and that's with ideal camera condition i.e. fully charged battery etc., which is not very good! 

I was expecting (hoping) the 5D MarkIV would have a similar buffer to the 1DX, which is around 35 RAW photos to both CF card slots, until the buffer is full.

I was hoping to replace my 1DX with the new 5D MKIV, because I like the extra megapixels for cropping....I was willing to give up some fps for the extra megapixels.

Hopefully, the real world tests of the 5D MarkIV show better RAW buffer capacity, compared to what Canon lists in the product manual.

P.S. I use the Lexar 1066x speed cards, so yeah, I'm using the fastest cards available

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1022077-REG/lexar_lcf64gcrbna1066_64_gb_pro_compact.html


----------



## John2016 (Aug 28, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



So? People understanding how much this "donkey" already is outdated for video and the Canon fanboys can't not admit it...

Next one:
"Canon has announced the latest DSLR in the seminal 5D line, the 5D Mark IV. It features a 30.4 megapixel sensor for stills, a touchscreen, and 4k video. It’s available for preorder on Amazon and B&H for shipment on September 8. And I won’t be buying one."
http://prolost.com/


----------



## John2016 (Aug 28, 2016)

dilbert said:


> So people are working out that Canon doesn't want them using the 5DIV for video, Canon wants people spending more for video ...



Some people here don't get this....


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 28, 2016)

John2016 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > So people are working out that Canon doesn't want them using the 5DIV for video, Canon wants people spending more for video ...
> ...



Do you know what "confirmation bias" means? Or "selection effect"? Look it up. Meanwhile, all the people already using Canon DSLRs for video happily keep doing that without feeling the need to write up passive-aggressive blog posts about it.


----------



## Maximilian (Aug 28, 2016)

Can live with everything on the spec list, although I liked the resolution to be lower. 
But if I don't know the IQ differences between 24 MP and 30 MP I will not complain.

My point of beeing upset is the PRICE.
Especially the pricing here over in Europe. 
I hope that a lot of people will vote with their purse to show Canon that a ridiculous price rise of 27 % (in MRSP) for whatever reason is not worth that spec list. 

For the next few years I am out of the race for a new body.
As I was already about to skip this generation of camera I am personally not so much affected on this. 
But others are.


----------



## K (Aug 28, 2016)

I'm not upset about anything. But here's a list of things that Canon fell sort on, that is - they could have reasonably done it without the camera moving into another category.


1. 1/200 Sync Speed. Why? Nikon's been offering 1/250. Are we to believe the Nikon shutter is faster and more robust to handle it? I don't think so. This is Canon choosing to cripple. Especially being that Canon knows how important this, this is yet another thing to up sell to the 1DX2.

2. CF / UHS-I. What the heck? UHS-II has been out a while. We can see why though, if Canon added UHS-II, it would be faster than the CF Card slot and that would then anger everyone into wanting CFast to match it. It's either ALL or NONE. With CFast and UHS-II, buffer clearance would be dramatically better - and here lies the reason why. They don't want it being too good for sports or wildlife....

3. 21 shot buffer. This is terrible. I would have thought a 28 shot buffer would have done enough to dodge criticism, offer more functionality too. I seriously doubt a 28 shot buffer on the 5D4 would make anyone say "oh great, I'm skipping the 1DX2" ...a bit paranoid on Canon's part.

4. Token 4K. Yes, I predicted this in threads for a long time here on this board. 4K was an absolute must for Canon, otherwise they'd face serious wrath out there. Well, they provided it in name-only. A token 4K capability. HDMI out is crippled to only 1080. The 4K crop factor is very tight, making most lenses useless. Lack of common, very useful video tools. Awful codec. 4K is there on the specsheet, but it's mostly useless. Videographers across the board are almost in unanimous agreement on that. Canon offered it to get the mainstream review market that casually looks at specs off their back. But they also ensured that it wouldn't be used in a serious capacity. This is to protect 1DX2 and Cinema. However, other companies are offering higher video specs at the same price point, so another case of Canon not competing with the market, and instead beating up their own "in system" users, aka people with huge sums invested in glass. Canon could care less that the hard core users will complain for 4-5 years about it on webforums. They have it on the spec sheet, and major retailers can advertise this.

5. Old USB 3 type connector. USB-C has been out long enough. Takes up less space, and will absolutely be THE standard for many years to come. 

6. Battery life. Lower than Nikon by a good percentage.

7. Dynamic Range. Speculation here, but given the 1DX2 and 80D, we're looking at weaker low ISO DR than the competition.

8. ISO. 1/2 stop improvement would have been better than the 1/3 improvement.

9. DPRAW. Mostly gimmick. Can have some use for certain photographers, but if mainstream applications don't allow editing, this will be forgotten.

10. Price. Too high given the features and quality of competitor offerings. It is justifiable in the sense that if you need a little bit of everything, then it is a good value. However, if you're more focused on landscapes, or portraits/stills, sports/wildlife or videography - there are better bodies out there at a lower price. And these other bodies are also fairly decent at other types of photography. Maybe not as jack of all trades the 5D4, but close enough to not be crippled in any one area.


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## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

K said:


> I'm not upset about anything. But here's a list of things that Canon fell sort on, that is - they could have reasonably done it without the camera moving into another category.
> 
> 
> 1. 1/200 Sync Speed. Why? Nikon's been offering 1/250. Are we to believe the Nikon shutter is faster and more robust to handle it? I don't think so. This is Canon choosing to cripple. Especially being that Canon knows how important this, this is yet another thing to up sell to the 1DX2.
> ...



I think 'cripple' is becoming the most overused word on these forums. 1/200 vs 1/250 is such a big difference it's *crippling*?

The buffer value of 21 has already been discussed, there's more to it than that figure (apparently the 5D3's rated buffer was lower, but it's not stopped people happily using that camera).

A ~1.6x crop 'makes most lenses useless'? Really?? Tell that to everyone with a 7D, XXD, XXXD etc. (I appreciate you can't mount EF-S lenses on this body, but it only really affects the widest end).

Some of your criticisms have more merit than others, but wow, you're a bit harsh! Compared to the model it replaces, this has more res, higher fps, undoubtedly better DR, better video specs (even if they're not what videographers crave), etc. etc. No camera is perfect; most customers seemed content or even happy with the 5D3; this camera improves on almost all aspects.


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## K (Aug 28, 2016)

Well, isn't that the purpose of the thread?

I like the 5D4 from what I see. To put it in perspective, I feel the video specs complaining is the vast majority of negative heat out there. 

I could care less about video....so this camera is fantastic. 

Besides, the video for regular folks is excellent. Just not for pros.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 29, 2016)

"The 4K crop factor is very tight, making most lenses useless."

Wow, and I thought I could use my 300 2.8 II X2 III for bird videos. I'm very disappointed!
Actually, it's my 11-24 that I'd want to use more for WA landscape scenes, so that's another disappointment.

Jack


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## John2016 (Aug 29, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



*SUBJECT: What are you the most *upset* about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?*

Did you even read what pro's like Philip wrote about the 5d MkIV? People* been using* old Canon cameras for video and the new 2016 5d MkIV is already *outdated product*. But Canon fanboys would even accept 1080i with 2.5 crop factor... 
*
For the Psychologist here:* "Acceptance of reality is key to ending the suffering of emotional pain" :-*
And since you brought it up: *Confirmation bias* occurs from the direct influence of desire on *beliefs*. 
I guess all the professional reviews are wrong and paid by Sony and Nikon and we are all living in the "CANOMATRIX".


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 29, 2016)

John2016 said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...



So lets say all the reviewers are right. The 5D4 is poor and outdated already. What's the problem if I buy it and enjoy it. What's the problem if I'm generally satisfied purchasing and using an inferior camera with my inferior lenses. I'm not motivated by having gear better than the next guy. I'm motivated by having what fits my needs as I perceive them, so Canon gets my money. That's money that a few years ago was going to Nikon.

Jack


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## M_S (Aug 29, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



Nothing wrong with that. If it fits you, then its good for you. No problem there. Canon selling it as the hottest thing in town for a premium price is where question marks pop up. DPAF being the exception. Its outdated upon arrival in some key areas like card tech, video codec, hdmi interface that this will be a hard pill to swallow at least for me. As I posted in another thread, I will wait and see what the competition brings to the table.


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## John2016 (Aug 29, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



Nothing wrong with that. The camera is just outdated for video. Trust me I would like this would be the opposite.


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## BokehBalls (Aug 29, 2016)

We can't go through between RAW-DPRAW modes with single button. We have to change the mode by entering menu.


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## Sharlin (Aug 29, 2016)

John2016 said:


> Nothing wrong with that. The camera is just outdated for video. Trust me I would like this would be the opposite.



And funnily for everyone saying that there's a stills photographer complaining that Canon is just adding video features and neglecting "real photography"  Canon just can't win so they make compromises.


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## tron (Aug 29, 2016)

John2016 said:


> ... The camera is just outdated for video. Trust me I would like this would be the opposite.


And I would not! Anyway like it or not it is a stills camera with video being just the bonus.


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## deadwrong (Aug 29, 2016)

PRICE vs overall features is my main gripe.

Way too expensive of a camera that is going to get runover within a year by competitors.


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## Act444 (Aug 29, 2016)

Andrew Davies Photography said:


> My biggest hurdle in spending this much on a new body is how much better high ISO results i will get , looking at the manual AUTO ISO range is now 100-12800 instead of 100-6400 which if that meant 12800 is now as good as 6400 would be a significant increase but I think i will be waiting for some sample images to see if that's the case.



Don't hold your breath...even the 1DX II shows only ~2/3 stop Raw high ISO improvement over the 5D3, and that's with a slight DECREASE in MP count. At 30 MP, at best I would expect performance to be similar, if not slightly worse. 

That said, it's also possible that the noise pattern may be finer, meaning that the files may "clean up" better in post - but let's see reviews and samples. Hopefully they come sooner rather than later as I'm weighing some big purchase decisions right now...


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## ahsanford (Aug 29, 2016)

Act444 said:


> Andrew Davies Photography said:
> 
> 
> > My biggest hurdle in spending this much on a new body is how much better high ISO results i will get , looking at the manual AUTO ISO range is now 100-12800 instead of 100-6400 which if that meant 12800 is now as good as 6400 would be a significant increase but I think i will be waiting for some sample images to see if that's the case.
> ...



Surely, ^^ this ^^ is where the opportunity is. 

Also, the 5DS experience has taught us that the pixel-level noise may be worse than the 5D3, but 5DS files downsampled to 5D3 resolution look pretty damn good. 

That epiphany (on my part) somewhat helped me not be an enemy of more pixels -- with the 5DS, you get absurd detail when the light is good, _and you get something on the order of 5D3 when the light is not good_. So in that sort of value proposition, the 5DS's extra pixels are only a takeaway from hard drive space and not the end product's IQ. (We can obviously split hairs on that, but directionally, downsampling manages noise to some extent.)

- A


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## martti (Aug 29, 2016)

Nothing about the specs, really. But when I was the sample images I knew that I have to get a next generation Canon body pretty soon. Bref, they looked like I want my out-of-camera .jpgs to look. 
then you have touch focus and both contrast and double pixel focusing on LiveView. Plus tracking.


I had everything settled out, I need a new camera because the old one drowned but this is the one I want!


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## Act444 (Aug 29, 2016)

DPR has studio scene images from the 5D4 up. First impressions from a mobile screen: good news is that high ISO performance is similar to - and at the highest settings, slightly better than - the 5D3...bad news, image appears softer (have to verify on the computer). Not unlike the 1DX - 1DX II jump. Suspect either a software-based issue (they did say they used beta ACR) or a stronger AA filter. 

Even with that, 5D4 still pulling out more detail in images due to the resolution increase (which is noticeable).


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## Mr. Milo (Aug 30, 2016)

I'm just upset at the price. 

I knew they were not going to put in C-log though way before the leaks over a month ago. Read my old posts to see how I progressed by accepting it. I have to keep working with Cinestyle and Marvel's Advanced Profile. It sucks but oh well.

For people saying that professional filmmakers can't use this? BS. They can and they will. It didn't stop Hollywood from using the 5D Mark II and Mark III. They're not going to stop now.

Dual Pixel AF *with* Touchscreen and face detection are critical. I can glidecam, steadicam, and take pictures without worrying about focusing so focus peaking is not needed. The Canon C100 Mark II and C300 Mark II can't do that. Sony A7 S II and Nikon can't do that.

As I wrote before, 4K is trash for anyone here chasing it. It eats up memory too fast and CFast 2.0 is too effin' expensive. Canon did me a huge favor by sticking with SD cards. MJPEG codec, I don't care because I couldn't care less about 4K.

You want 4K Full Frame with with all the goods and not many restrictions? You have to pay more for that right now. It makes sense. Canon is protecting their higher end digital cinema cameras. I would, too. 

Look at the Nikon D5. Can only film 4K for 3 minutes. You want more? Pay more; get Ninja Atomos. Then again, Nikon's 4K is UHD. It's not DCI. The camera costs $6500+.

Get the Nikon D500. It records in 4K, but it's not DCI. Also, doesn't have Dual Pixel AF with Touch Screen. Both D5 and D500 4K is cropped. Go bitch to Nikon.

Let's examine the Canon 1DC of 2012. The 4K is cropped 1.3x. See? It's all good.

In 2020, yes Canon will have full frame 4K DSLR and clean HDMI out for it. It's just not worth it as of 2016. BTW, in 2020, Canon will not give you focus peaking, zebra, and c-log.

Go to Sony and Nikon if you want that. I'm not. Canon lens are unrivaled; truly spectacular compared to the others. Pretty stupid for me to change to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic.

For any professional filmmaker (Hollywood, indie, Youtube/Vimeo) reading this, the audience does not care and WILL NOT notice if your film, commercial, documentary, promo piece, wedding, music video are shot in 4K DCI Full Frame. 

All broadcast stations project in 1080i so I don't see any need for our work to be in 4K unless the client specifically asks for it and willing to pay more for that, but that's rare so I don't see it.

Full Frame DCI 4K on a DSLR is not ready for prime time right now. That's the reality. Sony A7 S II 4K is not ready either because that mirrorless camera overheats and kills battery life fast. It's not worth it.


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## TAF (Sep 3, 2016)

I did a quick scan of the manual, and it seems that yet again we have a camera without interchangeable focus screens.

Am I getting that right, or did I miss the section?

If I got that right, no thank you. My 5D3 is just fine, and I'll wait and see what the 6D2 brings (which will also be less expensive).

A new 24-105, OTOH, sounds like something I'll be getting.


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## time123 (Sep 4, 2016)

I am a bit surprised that they did not increase the number of auto-focus points leading to a greater coverage in the viewfinder. You can compare the spread of points between the 5D4 and 5D3 here (it's pretty nifty actually): http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV.aspx. I know they spread the points a little bit further but I guess I was expecting more. I suppose I may have let my imagination run wild over the past year and half with the 5D3 successor being just around the corner and seeing the spread in the 7D2.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 4, 2016)

time123 said:


> I am a bit surprised that they did not increase the number of auto-focus points leading to a greater coverage in the viewfinder. You can compare the spread of points between the 5D4 and 5D3 here (it's pretty nifty actually): http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV.aspx. I know they spread the points a little bit further but I guess I was expecting more. I suppose I may have let my imagination run wild over the past year and half with the 5D3 successor being just around the corner and seeing the spread in the 7D2.



Crop cameras facilitate greater spread than FF.

Jack


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## privatebydesign (Sep 4, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> time123 said:
> 
> 
> > I am a bit surprised that they did not increase the number of auto-focus points leading to a greater coverage in the viewfinder. You can compare the spread of points between the 5D4 and 5D3 here (it's pretty nifty actually): http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV.aspx. I know they spread the points a little bit further but I guess I was expecting more. I suppose I may have let my imagination run wild over the past year and half with the 5D3 successor being just around the corner and seeing the spread in the 7D2.
> ...



That really depends on what metric you measure it by. 

If you think of the spread as arc then they are the same its just the crop camera never captures over half the image the ff camera does.

However if you consider the spread in image equivalence terms, same place different lenses to get the same framed image, the crop camera does effectively have a larger spread in image coverage terms.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 4, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > time123 said:
> ...



Right on. I just offered this in case no one else did.  I never remember the technical details. 

Scott, the 400 is impressing but there certainly is a different bokeh in some situations that isn't quite as nice as the 300.

Jack


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## crashpc (Sep 4, 2016)

My "upset" is that I don´t see enaugh "jump" from 5D III, so I don´t expect my bodies (EOS M5) to get really better, or on par with for example D7200 sensor. I expect no less than that.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 4, 2016)

crashpc said:


> My "upset" is that I don´t see enaugh "jump" from 5D III, so I don´t expect my bodies (EOS M5) to get really better, or on par with for example D7200 sensor. I expect no less than that.



Some have suggested, and I'm inclined to agree, that top end cameras have gotten so good that improvements are not going to be as dramatic, in the future. There will be game changers such as DPAF, no doubt, but short of that sort of thing it simply is going to be incremental and that has a positive outcome - it's easier on the pocket book when you're not inclined to upgrade. I'm sure Canon doesn't see it that way! 

Jack


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## crashpc (Sep 4, 2016)

Yes. I can see that. Well, for my purposes and sight, I prefer that new sensor over recent Canons 80D sensor by full one stop. That´s where I would accept to be. Now I´m on Nikons D600 sensor, which is even better, but I don´t want to go down a lot. Just a stop, as crop area dictates.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 4, 2016)

crashpc said:


> Yes. I can see that. Well, for my purposes and sight, I prefer that new sensor over recent Canons 80D sensor by full one stop. That´s where I would accept to be. Now I´m on Nikons D600 sensor, which is even better, but I don´t want to go down a lot. Just a stop, as crop area dictates.



Yes that nasty activity of cropping really complicates things. I'm too old to be jumping ship and will just take whatever Canon gives me, which for the most part is pretty good.

Jack


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 4, 2016)

crashpc said:


> My "upset" is that I don´t see enaugh "jump" from 5D III, so I don´t expect my bodies (EOS M5) to get really better, or on par with for example D7200 sensor. I expect no less than that.



I'd much rather have an EOS M5 body than a D7200 sensor.


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## AvTvM (Sep 4, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> I'd much rather have an EOS M5 body than a D7200 sensor.



I'd much rather have an EOS M5 "Pro" with a sensor as good as the one in D7200 or A6300.


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## Sporgon (Sep 4, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd much rather have an EOS M5 body than a D7200 sensor.
> ...



But you don't actually _have_ a D7200 or an A6300 do you ? So you're guessing that's what you want from the various on line files, right ?


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## AvTvM (Sep 4, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> But you don't actually _have_ a D7200 or an A6300 do you ? So you're guessing that's what you want from the various on line files, right ?



Well, I go not only by pics but also by reviewers findings which are very clear in this case. And those reviewers know MUCH MORE than me. ;D


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