# Lens Fungus - Advice Needed



## pgsdeepak (Dec 3, 2014)

Hello Folks - My favorite lens - the Canon 100mm Macro (Non L) is showing Fungus in the inside glass element. I appeared about 2 years back. I sent it to canon for clean up (costed me around $100 with CPS membership). It came back neat. But after this summer, it re-appeared. I don't know if its worth spending another $100 again. So I tried to trade it in Amazon. But they are sending it back saying the lens is in unacceptable condition. I did not find it really bad yet, its somewhere in the starting stage I believe. So far I don't see any impact on the image quality as such. Also my other lens are not impacted so far. I would like to get the advice of the knowledgable folks here on what to do next. My options I think are
1. Get a new 100mm non L lens. Is the lens prone to fungus or its just that the piece I have has some issues?
2. Get the L version. Is it safe to assume the weather sealing of the L will prevent fungus to some extend? Assuming no one will give anything for my current lens, this is a bit of an additional expense for me. I don't make money from photography..Just crazy about taking pictures 
3. Live with the current lens.

Are there any other places where I can trade it in (BH and Best buy does not offer much, and I am not sure they will also reject it). I don't want to sell it to an individual knowing that the lens has a problem.
Also any precautions required for the other lenses and the camera?
thanks for your help.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2014)

I doubt anyone will take a lens with fungus, it's a sure bet it'll get worse over time. 

The 100L would not be any different – weather-sealed lenses aren't hermetically sealed, air moves in and out and will bring spores with it. Rather, something about the way you use/store the lens is worth a look. Mold likes dark and humid, and lenses are usually stored in the dark. There are 'dry cabinets' that will regulate relative humidity to levels that inhibit mold/fungal growth. Personally, I store my gear in Pelican/Storm cases with desiccant cartridges to remove the moisture. Long term storage like would prevent fungus, but could cause a different issue – drying out of gaskets/lubricants. But I use my lenses, so the cases get opened frequently enough.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 3, 2014)

You can list it on ebay with the story you have here, but it might be better to have it repaired. The lens elements can be replaced, and the lens cleaned, but, as Neuro said, keep it dry, once those spores get in, a annual cleaning might be in order until you are certain that it is not going to recur.


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## thelebaron (Dec 3, 2014)

why exactly is lens fungus so hard to get rid of?


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## Hillsilly (Dec 3, 2014)

If you don't see any deterioration in image quality, just learn to live with it. The fungus is probably embedded in the glue holding the lens together. Short of an expensive complete rebuild, a repair is just going to give you a temporary reprieve. And if you list the lens accurately for sale, you won't get much interest.

I've had a number of lenses with fungus problems. In my case, I suspect it is because I use my gear in the rain and I live in a hot, humid climate, creating an ideal environment. One home remedy to try is to leave your lens out in the sun for a few days/week as some fungi don't like UV. This won't fix up any etching currently there, but might hinder future growth. (If you try this, place the lens on something which isn't inflammable.)


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

pgsdeepak said:


> Hello Folks - My favorite lens - the Canon 100mm Macro (Non L) is showing Fungus in the inside glass element. I appeared about 2 years back. I sent it to canon for clean up (costed me around $100 with CPS membership). It came back neat. But after this summer, it re-appeared. I don't know if its worth spending another $100 again.



No, it isn't - if you shoot in these conditions, upgrade to the L. I chose to, but only after receiving my 2nd €200 repair bill after the aperture broke down again and again.



pgsdeepak said:


> So I tried to trade it in Amazon. But they are sending it back saying the lens is in unacceptable condition. I did not find it really bad yet, its somewhere in the starting stage I believe.



Rightly so. I didn't read your description, but have to say I don't like folks trying to sell of their nearly broken gear (failing shutter) online, hoping the dumb buyer will only notice if it's too late. If you want to try such a thing, be very verbal and honest about the problem. Probably in this case, you weren't.



pgsdeepak said:


> Live with the current lens.



This first, as it's lost anyway you can abuse it as you like which is nice for outdoor shooting, too.



pgsdeepak said:


> Get the L version. Is it safe to assume the weather sealing of the L will prevent fungus to some extend?



This second - the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens. As written by the other posters, you still have to store it in a smarter way than you did with your old lens.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ...the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens.



By definition, 'humidity' is the amount of water in a gaseous state dissolved in the air. Individual molecules of H2O floating around, and those water molecules are smaller than the molecules of nitrogen gas that compose most of the air. So, unless the sealing is capable of keeping air from moving in and out of the lens (it's not!), that sealing will have no effect on humidity entering the lens.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 3, 2014)

One way to prevent the spread of fungi is to use ultra violet light "C". Filters are used to kill microbes in aquarium, with a lamp that emits UV light "C". But careful not to expose your skin or eyes in this light that damages the DNA of the cells is can cause cancer in the body parts that were exposed to this light.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ...the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens.
> ...



Oh my, you're getting my "smartest native speaker of the day" award  ... in that case, let me change my statement to "water in a liquid state or gaseous water condensing at the lens into a liquid state".


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 3, 2014)

Will storing a lens with desiccant help if the lens already has a fungus?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 3, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Will storing a lens with desiccant help if the lens already has a fungus?


Can avoid the rapid growth of the fungus, but does not prevent it happens over the years. In fact, any lens that changes your size when zooming, (or for focus) is more likely to suck spores, which are the "seeds" of fungi.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> In fact, any lens that changes your size when zooming, (or for focus) is more likely to suck spores, which are the "seeds" of fungi.



... which excludes the 100 non-L the op has. The problem with this lens is that its really unsealed, looking at my old copy of it there seem to be a lot of gaps where outside [enter appropriate scientific phrase here] can enter.


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 3, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ...the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens.
> ...



+1 - Agree! Well put. Even the spores can't be kept out unless filters are used that are fine enough. I don't think lenses have HEPA filters.  Simply storing the lenses in a container that is a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air will reduce the humidity. It's not much more complicated than that. That's what is done in gun safes to prevent rust. In most areas of the country and air conditioned spaces, things are good without any extra effort. But if you are in a humid area, extra measures may be necc.


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 3, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> One way to prevent the spread of fungi is to use ultra violet light "C". Filters are used to kill microbes in aquarium, with a lamp that emits UV light "C". But careful not to expose your skin or eyes in this light that damages the DNA of the cells is can cause cancer in the body parts that were exposed to this light.



Folks, again, it doesn't have to be complicated. UV light can be hazardous and we aren't purifying water here. Just make the lens storage container a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air to reduce the humidity. Don't bake the stuff, just keep it a little warmer. Desiccants are not zero maintenance, they can become saturated and must be "reset". Or, move the equipment to a room that has a good AC unit that maintains a low enough humidity level.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Just make the lens storage container a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air to reduce the humidity. Don't bake the stuff, just keep it a little warmer. Desiccants are not zero maintenance, they can become saturated and must be "reset".



Are there suitable battery-operated solutions for that, or would AC power be required? I store my gear in my walk-in closet (the 'his' of the his-and-hers pair in our bedroom). There's space, but no outlets. Desiccant cartridges don't need power in use, and while most the ones I use can be regenerated, they're basically disposable cartridges (desiccant in a Petri dish bottom with a mesh filter cover). I'm in the cases frequently enough to check the indicator color. In my largest case, I recently switched to an EvaDry 333, which can be regenerated by plugging it in overnight.


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## sdsr (Dec 3, 2014)

Since the fungus doesn't have any effect on the images you make with the lens, and you really want to be rid of it, you could try selling it if you explain the situation and provide a suitable photo recently taken with it. You probably won't get much for it, of course. But why not just keep on using the lens until it affects your images (presumably you should keep it stored separately from your other lenses)? Look at it this way: it's a relatively inexpensive lens which has evidently served you well for several years; so you've probably gotten your money's worth out of it, figuratively if not literally. I would rather buy a used one (or a used L) than spend any more getting it cleaned.


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## VitC (Dec 3, 2014)

Fungus is stronger than we are  . But eventually you may have a very nice lens for soft portraits, or flower shots. Think of all the filters photographers used to spend money on to soften images.


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 3, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > Just make the lens storage container a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air to reduce the humidity. Don't bake the stuff, just keep it a little warmer. Desiccants are not zero maintenance, they can become saturated and must be "reset".
> ...



Everything I've ever seen has required power. And like you, I'm into and move my stuff enough that this has never been a problem for me. (Plus I live in North Texas which is more humid than West Texas where I used to live but not near as humid as some parts of the country that have bigger fungus problems.)

I think you've found a good compromise *neuro*. I like it! Assuming you have several of these plug-in desiccant units, I figure you simply swap them out on a regular basis.

Or, you could retrofit your pelican cases with pass through waterproof electrical connectors. (Bit of work though...)
Ideas for the concept, not links to anything I've used myself...
http://www.fuertecases.com/wireseal_install.html (A call to these guys might provide some ideas too.)
http://www.downwindmarine.com/Hella-Plugs-amp-Sockets-Plastic-Waterproof-p-91001847.html
http://sell.lulusoso.com/selling-leads/1601298/3pins-Power-Panel-Mount-Waterproof-Connector.html

This is an example of a simple Dehumidifier Rod used in gun safes. http://www.amazon.com/Lockdown-Dehumidifier-Rod/dp/B00NW2Y914
A hole would need to be drilled unless you just wanted to have the cord hang out under the lid. When I'm storing my stuff, I don't usually lock down the locks anyway. (You don't want to hurt the seal material.)

In my large main safe, I have power and data network cable run into the safe. I put a small NAS unit in the safe to hold image backups and data from all of our computers on the network. This unit creates heat which keeps things warm in the safe, hence acts as a dehumidifier in the process.


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## mnclayshooter (Dec 3, 2014)

This is a post not about how to rid yourself of existing lens fungus, but more about why we still have the problem of lens fungus. 

With all of the advancements in anti-microbial materials and technology developed to maintain interior environments, why can't we (collectively) come up with some kind of insert that can go inside the body of the lens and outgas an anti-fungal or fungus-averse gas or otherwise make the interior of the lens body unfavorable for microbial development/colonization? It seems like it should be possible - we have drop-in filters for some lenses, a very similar cartridge-type system could be employed, if the material was a consumable... otherwise things like Ag+ (silver ion) are commonly used in modern sports apparel/equipment to help mitigate some of the body odors caused by microbes. Seems like it shouldn't be a big brainstorm/leap to incorporate similar technology into the lens body. 

The issue is that the lens body "breathes"... therefore you cannot realistically keep out both the spores and the food source/water that they need to continue propagation... at least not without significant filtering at the "breathing" points of the lens. 

Anyone out there with sound scientific reasoning why an antimicrobial treatment wouldn't work?


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 3, 2014)

mnclayshooter said:


> This is a post not about how to rid yourself of existing lens fungus, but more about why we still have the problem of lens fungus.
> 
> With all of the advancements in anti-microbial materials and technology developed to maintain interior environments, why can't we (collectively) come up with some kind of insert that can go inside the body of the lens and outgas an anti-fungal or fungus-averse gas or otherwise make the interior of the lens body unfavorable for microbial development/colonization? It seems like it should be possible - we have drop-in filters for some lenses, a very similar cartridge-type system could be employed, if the material was a consumable... otherwise things like Ag+ (silver ion) are commonly used in modern sports apparel/equipment to help mitigate some of the body odors caused by microbes. Seems like it shouldn't be a big brainstorm/leap to incorporate similar technology into the lens body.
> 
> ...



Oh, I'm overflowing with sound scientific reasoning!! (At least to me anyway!) 

I'm with you *mnclayshooter*, and I agree. How hard could it be to simply have a long lasting anti-microbial coating or something else to hamper the fungus long term? It's not like these lenses are cheap. A few more dollars for some kind of feature, whatever it has to be, to prevent fungus without affecting IQ would be welcome in my book.

One way might be to just make the lens out of pure silver. There! Done! I wonder how that would affect the price and weight? And would we have to send the lens in occasionally to have it polished? ;D


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 3, 2014)

Is weathersealing (what ever that means) actually making the fungus problem worse in our lenses? Would a lens that has less weathersealing, while more prone to water and dust damage, be less prone to fungus and vice versa?

Just from a completely unscientific observation, I have lenses 30-40 years old that have not exactly been kept in sterile containers and none of them have fungus. They may have dust though. 

Is there a coorelation between "weathersealing" and fungus?


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Is there a coorelation between "weathersealing" and fungus?



Probably yes, as already stated above and experienced by people who managed to get water inside their "sealed" lens it takes much longer to get it out again. If conditions are unfortunate (i.e. high humidity and temperature) you can probably create a small fungus paradise inside an L lens. If you leave it there for a few millenia, who knows what will end up inside :->


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 3, 2014)

I just think it is oogy that all of a sudden I am getting ads for toe fungus. 

Hey, I am eatin lunch here!!!


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## alben (Dec 3, 2014)

A while back tried to sell my daughters 450d and kit lens to a uk shop ( daughter inherited my much loved 550D and 15-85 combo, after I upgraded to a 5D3) the shop examined the lens, said it had traces of fungus, so where not interested in the lens or body (the spores easily spread between lens, camera, and any other lens used. Glad I never let her use any of my new lenses. The kit that she bought second hand at university was a Kiss version of the 450d, so probably originated from a humid climate, lens was dumped, body sold with a lens I wanted rid of to another uk retailer for near on peanuts.


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 3, 2014)

alben said:


> (the spores easily spread between lens, camera, and any other lens used.



Is that really true?

Do we really have to practice "safe photography" and establish a monogmous relationships with our cameras/lenses? 

Is this the time for my Kickstarter for camera condoms? ;D

I can see it now.

"Folks, you love your 135mm L lens. The problem is that many people may have loved that same lens. Protect yourself and your camera with Accutance's KameraKondoms"

I will make millions!!! ;D


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

alben said:


> the spores easily spread between lens, camera, and any other lens used.



This is strange, but it might depend on the kind of fungus? Spores are all around us, as are bacteria. It's just that under everyday conditions, they don't spread beyond the normal measure. I find it hard to imagine some spores inside a lens are a danger to the whole electronics household.



AcutancePhotography said:


> Hey, I am eatin lunch here!!!



Speaking of eating: Did you know about 100 different strains of bacteria live in your mouth right now :-> ?


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 3, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Speaking of eating: Did you know about 100 different strains of bacteria live in your mouth right now :-> ?



Bacteria is not a problem. The bacteria don't know where my mouth has been so what they don't know won't hurt them.

But have you seen those pop-up ads for the toe nail fungus???gross


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 3, 2014)

The high air humidity during a short trip, will not bring create fungi on your lenses. Moreover, the high air humidity for 300 days a year will be a perfect nursery for the fungus. :

All preventive measures that I know, has any side effects over the years: ???

1- Keep lenses in container with dessicant, will dry out the internal lubricants of lens.

2- Keep lenses in container a little warmer than the outside, will mean temperatures above 30 degrees Celcius (in my city) and lubricants will dry out, and the rubber parts too. :-X

3. Expose the lens monthly to UV light "C", seems harmless to the lenses, but my skin and eyes can be over the years. 

4- Exposing lens to the sun puts a few minutes (no covers or lens hood) is extremely dangerous overheating.

I use the options 2 and 4, in moderation. 8) May God protect me. :-\


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> But have you seen those pop-up ads for the toe nail fungus???gross



Nope, haven't seen a browser ad in years, and a tv ad since I gave a away my set 15 years ago 



ajfotofilmagem said:


> Moreover, the high air humidity for 300 days a year will be a perfect nursery for the fungus. :



Where do you live - Florida? Tropical rainforest? If so, I sympathize - but living in moderate climate western Europe, I really cannot imagine this being a problem to a broader public... or am I mistaken?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 3, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > Moreover, the high air humidity for 300 days a year will be a perfect nursery for the fungus. :
> ...


I live in Brazil.
Not in the forest but in a seaside town where it rains (at least a few minutes) 200 days a year, where temperature is always above 25 degrees Celcius.


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## dolina (Dec 3, 2014)

Have it clean then sell it. It will never be optically the same ever again.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 3, 2014)

mnclayshooter said:


> This is a post not about how to rid yourself of existing lens fungus, but more about why we still have the problem of lens fungus.
> 
> With all of the advancements in anti-microbial materials and technology developed to maintain interior environments, why can't we (collectively) come up with some kind of insert that can go inside the body of the lens and outgas an anti-fungal or fungus-averse gas or otherwise make the interior of the lens body unfavorable for microbial development/colonization? It seems like it should be possible - we have drop-in filters for some lenses, a very similar cartridge-type system could be employed, if the material was a consumable... otherwise things like Ag+ (silver ion) are commonly used in modern sports apparel/equipment to help mitigate some of the body odors caused by microbes. Seems like it shouldn't be a big brainstorm/leap to incorporate similar technology into the lens body.
> 
> ...


 
Try a kick starter project to develop your idea.

The issue is that probably 1 lens in 10,000 has issues with fungus, so the cost might be out of proportion to the problem.


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 3, 2014)

LOL... Maybe get some kind of anti-fungus humidifier additive. You know, sort of like spraying Lysol inside the lens but cleaner and more micronized. I'm not endorsing doing it, I'm just thinking out loud... ???

It wouldn't remove the fungus already there but it might stop it from getting worse or prevent the fungus from growing in all the other 'infected' lenses you shared with that promiscuous camera that's making the rounds on all your unsuspecting lenses! ;D


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## mnclayshooter (Dec 3, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> mnclayshooter said:
> 
> 
> > This is a post not about how to rid yourself of existing lens fungus, but more about why we still have the problem of lens fungus.
> ...



As a kickstarter, it does sound intriguing... and you're right, the quantifiable "need" might not be there. But I still have the question - for the thousands of dollars of investment in lenses most serious photographers have... it seems that a buck or two-worth of an antimicrobial liner film or some such thing might be yet another "thing" that canon could sell to us. hahahah I can't believe I just wrote that.


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## AlanF (Dec 3, 2014)

dolina said:


> Have it clean then sell it. It will never be optically the same ever again.



Absolutely wonderful for the poor sucker who gets caught buying it. The fungus will come back.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

AlanF said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > Have it clean then sell it. It will never be optically the same ever again.
> ...


+1 for that, I already mentioned it above. But it seems to be common practice to sell snake oil, probably the reason why so many people want to have f2f business like craiglist.


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## dolina (Dec 3, 2014)

AlanF said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > Have it clean then sell it. It will never be optically the same ever again.
> ...


As the seller price it appropriately and make a disclosure.

As the buyer ask questions and thoroughly test before agreeing on the purchase.

Anyone buying used should never expect brand new condition.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 3, 2014)

thelebaron said:


> why exactly is lens fungus so hard to get rid of?


 
1. It can get into inaccessible places inside a lens. It can and usually does etch the glass surface, so if its gone that far, the lens element needs replacing. That's usually not a big cost, but for a lens worth $300 or so in good condition, it might not be worth chasing after it throwing $100 bills at it.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 3, 2014)

I already saw many lens, made half a century ago, stored without any special care, free of any fungus, but full of dust inside. The same photographer has modern lenses that created fungus in a year of use.

It seems that the modern lens coatings are more "nutritious" for the fungi. :-[


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## pgsdeepak (Dec 4, 2014)

thanks everyone for the generous response. I am not planning to sell the lens to individual buyers as I don't want them to suffer  . I assumed that the big companies like BH, Amazon and all will do some level of clean and check before putting it in the used gear market.
I spoke to someone at adorama and told about the fungus. they are glad to take a look. I did not think it was in such a bad state yet. With macro lens, for me its a heavily used lens in summer and stay in the shelf during winter. I will have to find ways to use it like my other lenses.
if I get something in return, I will gladly invest it in the L lens and try to follow the advice I got. If they also say its bad,
then I am not going to attempt to sell it again

thanks again


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