# Further Confirmation of EOS 77D, EOS Rebel T7i & New Kit Lens for CP+



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 4, 2017)

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We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-77d-coming-soon-cr2/">reported back in December</a> that we would be seeing an EOS 77D and EOS Rebel T7i announced ahead of either CES or CP+. We expect to see these two cameras announced in the coming week.</p>
<p>Below is further confirmation from NokiS___a.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 77D </strong>(Replacement for T6s)</p>
<ul>
<li>Body · 18-55mm kit · 18-135mm IS USM kit</li>
<li>SKU: 1892C001</li>
<li>Product name in Japan is not confirmed</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EOS Rebel T7i </strong>(Replacement for T6i)</p>
<ul>
<li>Body · 18-55mm kit · 18-135mm IS STM kit</li>
<li>SKU: 1894C001</li>
<li>Product name in Japan is unconfirmed (Kiss X9i?)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>SKU: 1620C001</li>
<li>Formal product name is unconfirmed (only focal length and F value and STM confirmed)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon BR-E1</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>SKU: 2140C001</li>
<li>Remote controller?</li>
</ul>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 4, 2017)

A new 18-55mm, darker than usual. ???
F4-5.6 instead of F3.5-5.6 

Perhaps a more compact model?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 4, 2017)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> A new 18-55mm, darker than usual. ???
> F4-5.6 instead of F3.5-5.6
> 
> Perhaps a more compact model?



Hopefully a little more compact and a bit better build quality. I can't tell from the photo I've seen.


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## Sharlin (Feb 4, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> *Canon BR-E1*
> 
> 
> SKU: 2140C001
> ...




This is a wild guess but perhaps a *B*luetooth *r*emote? They could be bringing the Bluetooth LE support in the M5 to the DSLR side too. A remote controller would be an obvious use for the technology.


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## Etienne (Feb 4, 2017)

Maybe interesting if it has DPAF


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 4, 2017)

Etienne said:


> Maybe interesting if it has DPAF



I'd be surprised if the 77D didn't have DPAF, it has become an automatic feature on Canon DSLRs.


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## Jopa (Feb 4, 2017)

No SL1mk2 :'-(


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## Etienne (Feb 4, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe interesting if it has DPAF
> ...



If so, it will make a good vlogging camera, like the 80D only cheaper and lighter. 
Also good for interviews as a one man band.


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## Orangutan (Feb 4, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe interesting if it has DPAF
> ...



I'm still perplexed that a Rebel would get the XXD designation, making it appear to sit between the 70D and 80D in features. Maybe Canon is preparing to completely change their product designations.


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## Nininini (Feb 4, 2017)

DPAF DPAF DPAF

thanks canon


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## Chaitanya (Feb 4, 2017)

Would be surprised if camera nazi would give us Dpaf in that sub-$1000 camera body.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 4, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Would be surprised if camera nazi would give us Dpaf in that sub-$1000 camera body.


I never thought "if" Rebels will get Dual Pixel AF.
It has always been a matter of "when" Rebels will get Dual Pixel AF.


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## 9VIII (Feb 4, 2017)

Jopa said:


> No SL1mk2 :'-(



I would love to see an update to the SL concept as well.
I'm not too anxious though since the basic Rebel bodies have never been significantly larger anyway. If they just design the T7i to be compact then it'll be almost as good as an SL2.


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## IglooEater (Feb 5, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



I guess Canon will soon have no choice but to mess up the naming scheme for the XXD line soon anyways. After the 80D, the 90D, then what? 100D? I think not. In which case, they may bend the conventions for the surrounding models naming.


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## ritholtz (Feb 5, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
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My disappointment is with not designing kit lens similar to ef-m 15-45mm lens. I guess Canon not going to do that unless Nikon comes up with one.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 5, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe interesting if it has DPAF
> ...



Canon has said that all new DSLR sensors would have on sensor A-D converters, if they do that, I can't see one without DPAF. Canon likes to reuse the basic sensor designs on several models, it will likely be the same or close to the M5 / 80D.


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## Nininini (Feb 5, 2017)

I imagine it will have 80D specs but:

-no 80D large viewfinder
-no 80D pentaprism, will prolly still be pentamirror
-no 80D weather sealing
-no 80D kelvin settings
-slightly lower battery life
-max shutter of 1/4000 instead of 1/8000 on the 80D
-slightly lower burst

I do think they will have DPAF and that will be marketed as the reason to upgrade.

I'm not sure about the amount of MP, since the 760D did have more MP than the 70D. It's possible these cameras would have 28MP or something.


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## unfocused (Feb 5, 2017)

Naming scheme makes sense. It made less sense to have an XXD line with only camera in the lineup. 

Anxious to see what sensor they use. Will it be the same as the 80D or will it be something different?

DPAF, wifi, touchscreen are all givens. Would not be surprised to see at least one f8 autofocus point and possibly more.


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## Antono Refa (Feb 5, 2017)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> A new 18-55mm, darker than usual. ???
> F4-5.6 instead of F3.5-5.6



Or maybe the camera will have f/8 focus points, and the new 18-55mm will be f/5.6-8.0? Customers love larger numbers...


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## mb66energy (Feb 5, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



Maybe it's (one of) the problem(s) of ageing or a world getting more and more complicated: Canons designation system has lost its stringent logics, driven by higher diversification and the limitations of 1- or 2-digit numbers while the 1-digit numbers 4 and 8 are omitted.

Overwise: It prevents me from buying new stuff to often - I really like my 5D and EOS M classic versions to .... take photos.


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## ExodistPhotography (Feb 5, 2017)

Nininini said:


> I imagine it will have 80D specs but:
> 
> -no 80D large viewfinder
> -no 80D pentaprism, will prolly still be pentamirror
> ...



- also no MFA for lens calibration.

I highly doubt they are going to break above 24MP on a APS-C camera at this time. New lenses with much better IS need to be introduced. But then again, new kit lens is coming.. 

I still think this is going to be a 770D. Calling it a 77D is just going to confuse to many folks. 

IMHO, it does look like its time for Canon revisit their naming scheme and come of with something better for the next decade or two..


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## hubie (Feb 5, 2017)

Nininini said:


> I imagine it will have 80D specs but:
> 
> -no 80D large viewfinder
> -no 80D pentaprism, will prolly still be pentamirror
> ...



also:

- no micro adjustment of lenses
- no as advanced AF system
- no 1/3 steps in shutter speed / ISO Settings

my guesses


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## jebrady03 (Feb 5, 2017)

You know what surprises me most about this rumor? That it's expected to come to fruition within a week's time and yet we have no bullet-point list of specs! That's crazy!


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## Chaitanya (Feb 5, 2017)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Would be surprised if camera nazi would give us Dpaf in that sub-$1000 camera body.
> ...


Sure to keep cost down Camera nazi might use the DPAF sensor but might then disable it in firmware just to differentiate between cameras. 
Pretty specs would look something like this:
24MP sensor with minor tweaks(highly doubt it will have DPAF else it will ruin sale of 80D and higher end bodies)
Similar body shape to 770D 
no headphone jack
crappy 1080p 60fps video with no 4K(even 5D mk 4 has shitty 4K just to protect their C series of cameras)
Same prehistoric UHS-I slot because faster cards would ruin the sales of more "expensive" SLRs. 
Same tiny battery from 760D/750D as larger battery pack will affect sales of "expensive" SLRs.
Wifi+NFC
Same 3" touchscreen display
Same pentamirror viewfinder


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## ritholtz (Feb 5, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...


It might get some basic form of 4k. Rebel target users are new users upgrading from their phone camera. 4k is common in phones now.


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## Nininini (Feb 5, 2017)

Pretty sure they will have DPAF. Because it's an older tech now, and they have to put it in if they want to ask good money for them.

The 760D without DPAF is already the same price as the 70D with DPAF right now.

If the new rebels don't have DPAF, there is actually not much reason to get them, considering that 70D price keeps dropping.

Also, it actually makes most sense to put DPAF in rebels over any other camera, rebels are popular with youtubers who use the live viewfinder all the time, canon even sells these canon rebel kits with mic etc. DPAF is super handy for video.


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## hubie (Feb 5, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> ritholtz said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



Oh dear, who are you? A miffed 10-year old? Calm down and get grown to seriously take part in a discussion apart from whining about how "nazi" Canon is. As a german citizen I have heard a lot about the Third Reich in history class and I find your kiddy comparison highly inapplicable and by the way also very inappropriate.


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## SkynetTX (Feb 5, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> *Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM*



It should be EF-S 18-55 f/2.8-4 IS USM to call it an update. Of course, ring-type USM  as STM  *does not* support Full-Time Manual focusing still photographers need. In the name of EF-S lenses the letter "S" should stand for "Still" and these lenses should not use focus-by-wire technology.  Focus-by-wire is the worst thing that can happen to any lenses.


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## Nininini (Feb 5, 2017)

SkynetTX said:


> Focus-by-wire is the worst thing that can happen to any lenses.



It's give and take, the STM lenses are cheaper, lighter and smaller than full manual override lenses.

Nano USM is kinda like STM 2.0, it has super super fast AF, which I doubt you could ever get on a lens with full mechanical override. If you allowed that kinda AF speed on a fully mechanical lens with override, it probably wouldn't last very long, something would eventually break.

Sure, in a perfect world you would have Nano ASM AF and full manual mechanical override, I just don't think that that is even possible. I do not think vanilla USM will ever be as fast as Nano USM, there are mechanical (pun intended) factors that prevent that from happening.


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## drmikeinpdx (Feb 6, 2017)

The idea of a miniaturized 80 D is quite attractive to me. Hope they don't cripple it too badly.


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## Kwwund (Feb 6, 2017)

I'm an "average Rebel user" with a t3i. I'm actually pretty well informed about video quality, but not at all interested in 4K. Not at all interested in spec sheets. Not upgrading from an iPhone. Only interested in taking good quality stills. 

Just thought you experts would like to have some actual market research instead of guessing what we lower life forms might be thinking.


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## Nininini (Feb 6, 2017)

Kwwund said:


> I'm an "average Rebel user" with a t3i. I'm actually pretty well informed about video quality, but not at all interested in 4K. Not at all interested in spec sheets. Not upgrading from an iPhone. Only interested in taking good quality stills.
> 
> Just thought you experts would like to have some actual market research instead of guessing what we lower life forms might be thinking.



To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if average rebel users care a lot about video.

Don't underestimate the number of youtubers who buy cameras, they are a very large group of people, much much larger than wedding photographers, sports photographers and wildlife photographers combined. 

Youtubers are the ones currently keeping Canon afloat, 300 hours of video is uploaded every second to Youtube.

Although I buy rebels for shooting wildlife and taking on vacation, I'm not going to pretend that I'm the average Rebel user, I'm not. The average Rebel user is probably doing Youtube videos or doing Instagram.

And Canon knows this, they even sell Youtube Creator Rebel kits with mic, they even gave them to youtubers for review. That iJustine person got one for review from Canon.

This is also why I think DPAF will be on the new rebels, since it's a feature that is amazing during video.






300,000 viewers for a t6i camera kit meant for youtube vloggers






Even, the biggest photographer on youtube, Tony Northrup his t6i review focusing on stills, couldn't even draw half the viewers


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## bart13 (Feb 6, 2017)

Justine has way more views and subscribers in general. Even as a photo/video guy I dislike Tony his channel.


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## dufflover (Feb 6, 2017)

Buffer and viewfinder have been common differentiators between typical Rebels and XXD's. Be interesting if the 70D turns out to be the overall better camera than it's higher number namesake


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## Nininini (Feb 6, 2017)

Hopefully they have larger viewfinders. They were a bit small on the 760D. One of the common themes in reviews.


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## eosuser1234 (Feb 6, 2017)

Wouldn't be surprised if the new EOS M6 is used to test the waters for dropping the KISS (REBEL) series in Japan first. In Japan, the APS-C entry level line shifts to EOS M product, and amateur APS-C with higher price points remains with x0D series.


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## ahsanford (Feb 6, 2017)

Nininini said:


> Nano USM is kinda like STM 2.0, it has super super fast AF, which I doubt you could ever get on a lens with full mechanical override. If you allowed that kinda AF speed on a fully mechanical lens with override, it probably wouldn't last very long, something would eventually break.
> 
> Sure, in a perfect world you would have Nano ASM AF and full manual mechanical override, I just don't think that that is even possible. I do not think vanilla USM will ever be as fast as Nano USM, there are mechanical (pun intended) factors that prevent that from happening.



Agree on the first point, but keep in mind we only have two lenses to confirm this with. Both the Nano USM lenses to date (and all the STMs, I believe?) are focus by wire. I, too, and not a fan of that for a host of reasons.

But what is 'vanilla' USM? Are you saying Nano USM is faster than _Ring_ USM? I don't believe that's the case.

In broad terms* -- here's how I've understood AF speed to go for Canon (fastest to slowest):

1) Ring USM
2) Nano USM
3) Micro USM ** (older design on smaller glass, most notably on the infamous EF 50mm f/1.4 USM)
4) STM (general version) 
5) STM (pancake lens version in the EF-S 24 f/2.8, EF 40mm f/2.8.)
6) 'No AF motor listed in the name' sort of AF lenses (few remain) like the old 50 f/1.8 II, 35 f/2, etc.

* There are exceptions to this of course -- there are some really slow focusing L lenses with ring USM (e.g. the 180L Macro) -- and there have been some peppier STM lenses to come down the pike.

** #3 and #4 could surely be debated. Pure speed I think Micro is quicker than the STM I've used, but my 50 f/1.4 USM hunts considerably, so while it can outpace STM from near to infinity in a straight line drag race, its total time to confirm very well may be slower.

But largely Ring USM is king for speed and in most (if not all?) cases, those lenses retain FTM mechanical focusing. For stills-only shooters, it remains the clear top dog, IMHO. So as much as I appreciate the size/cost/consistency upsides of STM, Nano, etc. I wish everything on every mount was USM.

- A


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## bereninga (Feb 6, 2017)

This naming convention isn't confusing. /sarcasm


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## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Feb 6, 2017)

Like the idea of a new remote controller, perhaps working across Series lines(eventually).


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## Kot (Feb 6, 2017)

Kwwund said:


> I'm an "average Rebel user" with a t3i. I'm actually pretty well informed about video quality, but not at all interested in 4K. Not at all interested in spec sheets. Not upgrading from an iPhone. Only interested in taking good quality stills.
> 
> Just thought you experts would like to have some actual market research instead of guessing what we lower life forms might be thinking.


+1 (but I'm using t4i)


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## Nininini (Feb 6, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Are you saying Nano USM is faster than _Ring_ USM?



All I can say is that Nano USM is insanely fast. I don't own a nano USM lens (yet), but had the chance to try that 18-135 on a 80D body, and I have never felt a lens that focused that quick.

I have never felt a lens that focused that fast from any brand for that matter. It's as if the lens is always in focus, since it seems faster than my eye could focus.

Some STM lenses aren't that fast, like the 40mm STM, it's not fast, it's kinda slow. But some STM, like the 18-55mm STM, are quite fast. But nothing compared to the Nano USM I tried, it's way way faster than any other APS-C lens from Canon I know of.


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## gmrza (Feb 6, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-77d-coming-soon-cr2/">reported back in December</a> that we would be seeing an EOS 77D and EOS Rebel T7i announced ahead of either CES or CP+. We expect to see these two cameras announced in the coming week.</p>



It would be useful to mention
Rebel T6i = EOS 750D
Rebel T6s = EOS 760D
Rebel T7i = EOS 770D

given that most of the world does not use the Rebel naming.


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## Sharlin (Feb 7, 2017)

gmrza said:


> Rebel T7i = EOS 770D



Not 800D? Where did you hear about this?


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## vangelismm (Feb 7, 2017)

gmrza said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-77d-coming-soon-cr2/">reported back in December</a> that we would be seeing an EOS 77D and EOS Rebel T7i announced ahead of either CES or CP+. We expect to see these two cameras announced in the coming week.</p>
> ...



Makes sense
Rebel T7s= EOS 77D


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## gmrza (Feb 8, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> gmrza said:
> 
> 
> > Rebel T7i = EOS 770D
> ...



It looks like these may still be at a rumour level:
http://www.canonwatch.com/next-canon-rebels-named-eos-770d-eos-780d-europe-cw3/


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## Sharlin (Feb 8, 2017)

gmrza said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > gmrza said:
> ...



Yeah. It's CW3 which is approximately equal in reliability to CR0...


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