# The future of the Canon EOS-1D X series [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 12, 2019)

> The Canon EOS-1D X Mark II was announced on February 1, 2016, which makes it just over 3 years old. Higher end Canon cameras seem to have a product lifecycle of 4-5 years now.
> We were told last month that testing for an EOS-1D X Mark II replacement has begun.
> We’re now being told to expect an announcement for the camera between Q4 of 2019 and Q2 of 2020.  As we’ve mentioned on a few occasions, the Summer Games are in Tokyo, Japan beginning in July of 2020.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## MrFotoFool (Mar 12, 2019)

With the EOS system being replaced by R system, I can't imagine they will sell many of these. And even if there is "no word as to whether or not this would be the last of the line" I am pretty sure it will be.


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## miketcool (Mar 12, 2019)

MrFotoFool said:


> With the EOS system being replaced by R system, I can't imagine they will sell many of these. And even if there is "no word as to whether or not this would be the last of the line" I am pretty sure it will be.



This is a specific market and they will sell similar numbers. 1DX owners don’t see a price, they see profit. It’s a necessary expense, not an investment or luxury item. If my year continues they way it has been, I’ll be upgrading when it lands without thought.


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## docsmith (Mar 12, 2019)

MrFotoFool said:


> With the EOS system being replaced by R system, I can't imagine they will sell many of these. And even if there is "no word as to whether or not this would be the last of the line" I am pretty sure it will be.


I am on the flipside of that thought. I bet sales will only be minimally impacted by those interested in the R system. 

1D's are dependable workhorses and have been for decades. They aren't about bling. They are about getting the job done. There is some nice RF glass coming, but there is already so much good EF glass, I can only see that causing a smallish ripple.


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## dolina (Mar 12, 2019)

A body like this will reduce to actual street price after the Olympics is done in August 2020. Before that you pay a premium.


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## PureClassA (Mar 12, 2019)

Find a bit hard to fathom the EOS R "Pro" model (which I assume to mean the 70MP HiRes version with IBIS discussed earlier) would be held back or at the mercy of a DX3. Completely different cameras and markets. Unless of course we are to assume the "Pro" R would be more of a high end workhorse like a DX2/3 ?

Again, can't see much in the way of change except for even further improved AF, more robust video capabilities, MAYBE IBIS. Radical new sensor design seems unlikely at this stage. The DX models like to be the war tested big guns rather than experimental machines.


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## amorse (Mar 12, 2019)

Canon will stop updating the 1DX series when people stop buying them. Reliability and familiarity are foundations you can build a business on and until other manufacturers are *perceived* to have the same reliability and familiarity in the professional user base, I suspect the 1DX II will continue to be a staple in the industry.

My biggest question in all of this is if all the other manufacturers continue to have more rapid replacement cycles than Canon, the opportunity for them to catch up in areas that matter would be greater. I wonder if Canon will stick to the 4-5 year cycle if competitors stick with 2-3 for the long haul.


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## Sharlin (Mar 12, 2019)

MrFotoFool said:


> With the EOS system being replaced by R system, I can't imagine they will sell many of these.


What else would the people who need and are used to 1DX level performance and ergonomics purchase? Jump ships to Sony? Ridiculously unlikely. Wait until Canon can procure a real mirrorless equivalent? Also very unlikely. And those who are in the market for a 1DX series camera do not gain much from mirrorless technology in the first place.


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## amorse (Mar 12, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> Find a bit hard to fathom the EOS R "Pro" model (which I assume to mean the 70MP HiRes version with IBIS discussed earlier) would be held back or at the mercy of a DX3. Completely different cameras and markets. Unless of course we are to assume the "Pro" R would be more of a high end workhorse like a DX2/3 ?
> 
> Again, can't see much in the way of change except for even further improved AF, more robust video capabilities, MAYBE IBIS. Radical new sensor design seems unlikely at this stage. The DX models like to be the war tested big guns rather than experimental machines.


I agree with the logic, but I am more so wondering if that's a marketing priority. It seems like Canon likes to give each and every model its time in the lime light before they introduce something new, and the 1DX III is likely the priority for the olympics. 

On the other hand, part of me wonders if the timing of projected release is telling here. The 1DX II preceded the 5D IV by a few months in 2016, meaning that in following the same schedule we should then expect a 5D V some time in 2020 following the 1DX III. However, now we're hearing that the high resolution body will come next, potentially in the time frame we would otherwise expect a 5D V. This makes me wonder if the high resolution R is the true spiritual successor to the 5D IV, and the EOS R is intended to be a down-market version of the 5D for the "do everything pretty well" niche. If the 5D V release time slot is potentially occupied by this resolution-focused R body, when or will we see a 5D V? Interesting times.


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## Adelino (Mar 12, 2019)

Could be the ultimate DSLR, probably not, the line will continue on DSLR s provide things mirrorless do not. But it will be close the ultimate.


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## Del Paso (Mar 12, 2019)

amorse said:


> Canon will stop updating the 1DX series when people stop buying them. Reliability and familiarity are foundations you can build a business on and until other manufacturers are *perceived* to have the same reliability and familiarity in the professional user base, I suspect the 1DX II will continue to be a staple in the industry.
> 
> My biggest question in all of this is if all the other manufacturers continue to have more rapid replacement cycles than Canon, the opportunity for them to catch up in areas that matter would be greater. I wonder if Canon will stick to the 4-5 year cycle if competitors stick with 2-3 for the long haul.


The 2-3 year cycle was practised by the Japanese auto industry in the seventies and eighties.
Till the economists noticed that the industrial equipment couldn't be amortised, the customers noticed that their toyomitsudas quickly grew obsolete, and, above all, that reliability suffered. Even cars and cameras need time to "ripen".
I can only hope that Canon will never be that stupid just because some customers believe new to be better than reliable.
EOS 1 DX rules!


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## QuisUtDeus (Mar 12, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> Find a bit hard to fathom the EOS R "Pro" model (which I assume to mean the 70MP HiRes version with IBIS discussed earlier) would be held back or at the mercy of a DX3. Completely different cameras and markets. Unless of course we are to assume the "Pro" R would be more of a high end workhorse like a DX2/3 ?
> 
> Again, can't see much in the way of change except for even further improved AF, more robust video capabilities, MAYBE IBIS. Radical new sensor design seems unlikely at this stage. The DX models like to be the war tested big guns rather than experimental machines.



I suspect that for the purposes of this text, "pro" refers strictly to the 1D body style and excludes the 5D series.


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## proutprout (Mar 12, 2019)

1dx is not really news here, only new thing is that Canon decided for sure to create unsellable glass. Like why on earth we have R pro glass with no pro body for SO LONG ! That doesnt make any kind of sense. Yes glass looks nice but what should we do with that. Look at it online and think : maybe one day someone will realize at canon that they actually have to work on a pro body ?!?


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## peterzuehlke (Mar 12, 2019)

proutprout said:


> 1dx is not really news here, only new thing is that Canon decided for sure to create unsellable glass. Like why on earth we have R pro glass with no pro body for SO LONG ! That doesnt make any kind of sense. Yes glass looks nice but what should we do with that. Look at it online and think : maybe one day someone will realize at canon that they actually have to work on a pro body ?!?


Maybe Canon thinks putting out the cutting edge lenses that only mount on the new bodies will drag some of those mediocre bodies to the cash register.


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## masterpix (Mar 12, 2019)

Canon only recently stopped manufacturing the EOS1 (film camera), after.. how many years since the digital D series started? It will take them long time before they will stop manufacturing the D1X series.


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## archiea (Mar 12, 2019)

peterzuehlke said:


> Maybe Canon thinks putting out the cutting edge lenses that only mount on the new bodies will drag some of those mediocre bodies to the cash register.




Love the R, however this past weekend, I shot alot outdoors, and in that light, I missed an optical viewfinder....


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## TMHKR (Mar 12, 2019)

What could possibly 1DX3 bring that's not already good enough on 1DX2? I expect maybe a new processor, a bit better ISO and DR, but that's it.


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## padam (Mar 12, 2019)

It would be real trolling if they literally added C-Log to the camera.


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## padam (Mar 12, 2019)

proutprout said:


> 1dx is not really news here, only new thing is that Canon decided for sure to create unsellable glass. Like why on earth we have R pro glass with no pro body for SO LONG ! That doesnt make any kind of sense. Yes glass looks nice but what should we do with that. Look at it online and think : maybe one day someone will realize at canon that they actually have to work on a pro body ?!?


They could come out with it earlier like they did with the EOS R, and people would complain, like: "Why the heck does it still have the sensor that is several years old? Why it doesn't have this and that yet"

Whatever they do, people will always complain, that seems to be the sure thing.


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## Kit. (Mar 12, 2019)

TMHKR said:


> What could possibly 1DX3 bring that's not already good enough on 1DX2? I expect maybe a new processor, a bit better ISO and DR, but that's it.


Higher resolution sensor, hybrid viewfinder (RGB+IR sensor histogram in OVF), faster version of EF protocol with recently renewed big whites.


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 12, 2019)

Canon launched over the last two years a fair number of new EF lenses including updates to the tilt-shift lenses, the IS 70-200mm lenses and the EF 400 f2.8L III etc. Why spend that kind of money to have the RF lenses kill them off. As good as the EOR R is, it still has weaknesses not least the EVF verses the optical finder. The optical finder is sharper & it doesn't freeze between shots & for a Pro that's not acceptable. The 1D series is built like a tank and these cameras can take a battering, sure you could build a 1D type camera to that standard for the RF mount but Canon know the agencies & photographers have many EF mount lenses and tend not to like adaptors. 
Canon have already stated they will run both series in parallel and it will be the market that decides if EF mount cameras fall away. 

What is not yet apparent in Canon strategy with the EOS R / RF series is the release of high end RF lenses yet lower entry cameras especially in the RP. I see my EOS R as more a replacement for the 6D MKII not the RP which I see as more as full-frame Rebel yet the 35mm f1.8 lens is the only non- L lens and the announced lenses address the holy trinity of L lenses plus the pro 85mm with again only one non L zoom lens. I would be totally surprised if Canon did not launch a Pro EOS R series camera in late 2019 given Sony offering and Nikon with the Z7. Can anyone really see EOS RP owner buying the RF28-70mm f2L or the RF50mm 1.2L in any great numbers? No.


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## HarryFilm (Mar 12, 2019)

Canon is DOOOOOOOMED !!!!! I tell you! Doooooooooooooooomed !!!!!!!!!!!!

The CRUEL NATURE of this is something I cannot speak about as of yet.... but I can tell that a NEW company now has 100 reasons compared to Canon's 93! Guess what Canon! Sometimes the 1000 pound Gorilla SMACKS EVERYONE and TRULY -- TRULY --- demonstrates with monstrous proof that he IS King of the Beasts!

Oooooh BOOOY !!!!! OUCH! This is gonna hurt! You're going to be KILLED on still image and video quality, feature set, price AND QUALITY OF BOTH body and lenses! And on the lenses, they will be EXCEEDING Zeiss Quality at in-between Xeen and Sigma Prices! And wait until you see the "Mobile Devices!"

YOU'RE DEAD IN THE WATER !!!
.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Mar 12, 2019)

proutprout said:


> 1dx is not really news here, only new thing is that Canon decided for sure to create unsellable glass. Like why on earth we have R pro glass with no pro body for SO LONG ! That doesnt make any kind of sense. Yes glass looks nice but what should we do with that. Look at it online and think : maybe one day someone will realize at canon that they actually have to work on a pro body ?!?



It's a guess, but I suspect you don't own the EOS R

I have the 5DS and EOS R, and understand why the glass available now is useful, both EF and RF


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Mar 12, 2019)

docsmith said:


> I am on the flipside of that thought. I bet sales will only be minimally impacted by those interested in the R system.
> 
> 1D's are dependable workhorses and have been for decades. They aren't about bling. They are about getting the job done. There is some nice RF glass coming, but there is already so much good EF glass, I can only see that causing a smallish ripple.



I haven't owned a IDX mk ii, but would certain enjoy one. Even though they are not smaller, the testimonials I hear about them have me guessing a good number of photographers would enjoy a mk iii. Apparently its a tough piece of gear as well as a proven piece of gear. I'm partly acquiring the RF system, but I still find myself price-shopping the 1DX ii used.


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## riker (Mar 12, 2019)

Keeping the 1D DSLR and not mirrorless is soooo obvious and logical, just as much as changing 5Ds to mirrorless. Soon. I don't see why the two developments and announcements would have to do anything with each other. I'm still expecting pro R this year, makes absolute sense.


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## FramerMCB (Mar 12, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> Canon launched over the last two years a fair number of new EF lenses including updates to the tilt-shift lenses, the IS 70-200mm lenses and the EF 400 f2.8L III etc. Why spend that kind of money to have the RF lenses kill them off. As good as the EOR R is, it still has weaknesses not least the EVF verses the optical finder. The optical finder is sharper & it doesn't freeze between shots & for a Pro that's not acceptable. The 1D series is built like a tank and these cameras can take a battering, sure you could build a 1D type camera to that standard for the RF mount but Canon know the agencies & photographers have many EF mount lenses and tend not to like adaptors.
> Canon have already stated they will run both series in parallel and it will be the market that decides if EF mount cameras fall away.
> 
> What is not yet apparent in Canon strategy with the EOS R / RF series is the release of high end RF lenses yet lower entry cameras especially in the RP. I see my EOS R as more a replacement for the 6D MKII not the RP which I see as more as full-frame Rebel yet the 35mm f1.8 lens is the only non- L lens and the announced lenses address the holy trinity of L lenses plus the pro 85mm with again only one non L zoom lens. I would be totally surprised if Canon did not launch a Pro EOS R series camera in late 2019 given Sony offering and Nikon with the Z7. Can anyone really see EOS RP owner buying the RF28-70mm f2L or the RF50mm 1.2L in any great numbers? No.


Well, the money you save on the body can be put towards the awesome glass right??? ;-)


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## FramerMCB (Mar 12, 2019)

riker said:


> Keeping the 1D DSLR and not mirrorless is soooo obvious and logical, just as much as changing 5Ds to mirrorless. Soon. I don't see why the two developments and announcements would have to do anything with each other. I'm still expecting pro R this year, makes absolute sense.


I don't believe that Canon necessarily views a 5DSr/S replacement with a mirrorless, higher MP sensor model as a "Pro" model. It will certainly be purchased and used by professionals but their main Pro bodies (at least by their own, internal standards/nomenclature) are the 1 DX and 5D series (Mk I, II, III, and now IV). The 5Ds and 5Ds R were more of a niche type of camera (and I'm sure a lot of Pros bought and use these too but so do a fair number of well-heeled enthusiasts/hobbyists).


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## [email protected] (Mar 12, 2019)

If they plan on releasing a mirrorless pro body (which I take to mean a 1d equivalent) AFTER the 1dx3, then we might actually expect the 70+mp 5ds-equivalent out sooner. 

I take part of this as good news, as it means the 5ds replacement may be coming before or at least near the 1dx announcement. The bad news is that if Canon's expectations are that it can't produce a 1d equivalent in mirrorless sooner, then it means it is likely not confident it can fix the throughput/processing issues its tech stack appears to have. That means that the 5ds replacement we get will be a sloooooow shooter; and worse, the 1dx3 won't see much of a jump in megapixels. Yes, as heretical as it may be, the 1dx2 would be a better camera with 20 percent more mp. 

If the rumor is true, it smells like Canon is throwing a 1d bone to keep the high end of the market interested in the in the Canon system, because it is unable to offer them what it really wants to offer them: a fast fps, mid-range mp monster that cooks the files well and is able to apply various computational processes to the images, such as DLO, etc., rather than offloading those calculations in the RAW to the post processing. It looked for a long while that this computational stuff had been a very high priority to set their lenses up as having advantage over the third parties. We've seen a bit less of that of late, and they've reverted to putting out amazing glass instead. Not complaining.


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## padam (Mar 12, 2019)

FramerMCB said:


> I don't believe that Canon necessarily views a 5DSr/S replacement with a mirrorless, higher MP sensor model as a "Pro" model. It will certainly be purchased and used by professionals but their main Pro bodies (at least by their own, internal standards/nomenclature) are the 1 DX and 5D series (Mk I, II, III, and now IV). The 5Ds and 5Ds R were more of a niche type of camera (and I'm sure a lot of Pros bought and use these too but so do a fair number of well-heeled enthusiasts/hobbyists).


Depends on the definition of what 'Pro' means. If it means dual cards, stabilisation and a joystick, it means that in the current generation of mirrorless cameras, right now the 'border' has been laid out at the EOS R and any models (probably two of them) placed above it can have these things.
There is a good chance that the EOS R Mark II will have these things, crossing that border next time, but that's a long way.

It used to be the same with other things in the old days, for the full-frame you had to get the 1Ds, after that came the 5D which made that more accessible, then the 6D, now the EOS RP, same with the 4k with the 1DC, then the 1DXII then the 5DIV, etc.


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 12, 2019)

Oh dear just another mild bump like the 1DXII itself it seems. Will be left for dead by D6 and A9 II if this is the case. So sad to see Canon just limp along barely doing the minimum to survive.

1DXII was woeful update if you don't care about 4K. 1DXIII needs to be a bigger update than the change form 1D4 to 1DX to be viable.


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## Adelino (Mar 12, 2019)

Question for you production/engineer types, how hard or expensive is it develop two similar (mirrorless and DSLR) cameras at the same time?


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## Don Haines (Mar 12, 2019)

padam said:


> Depends on the definition of what 'Pro' means. If it means dual cards, stabilisation and a joystick, it means that in the current generation of mirrorless cameras, right now the 'border' has been laid out at the EOS R and any models (probably two of them) placed above it can have these things.
> There is a good chance that the EOS R Mark II will have these things and cross that border next time, but that's a long way.
> 
> It used to be the same with other things in the old days, for the full-frame you had to get the 1Ds, after that came the 5D which made that more accessible, then the 6D, now the EOS RP, same with the 4k with the 1DC, then the 1DXII then the 5DIV, etc.


“Pro” is a marketing term.....

A professional uses the appropriate camera for the job and has to also bring affordability into the equation. The most expensive camera and lens is not always the best for the job.... just look at the number of GoPro cameras in professional motor Sports! Sometimes tiny is everything. Sometimes the camera is disposable. Sometimes (pro sports) there is no substitute for a 1DX2 and a 600F4, but you never see a wedding shot with that combo.

The right tool for the job!

( speaking of tools, any tools sold as “pro” are usually of moderate to low quality, it’s a label slapped on my the marketing people)


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## padam (Mar 12, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> “Pro” is a marketing term.....


In any case, most people (even some ambassadors) who like and use the EOS R camera still state these two things for photography (dual slots, joystick) as the biggest drawbacks for some professionals, some complaining about IBIS as well(and uncropped 4k, but I can already guess that it will not be featured) and it seems that Canon will put these nice things in with higher-end models, first with a specialised model focused on resolution and another one focused on speed and video.
This last one looks like the best all-round camera from all of them in theory, although we already know that besides the huge pricetag, it will have some sort of limitations to make it specialised and not good for everything, we just don't know what those might be.


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## kaptainkatsu (Mar 13, 2019)

The 1DX3 will sell. Pro sports photographers and other users of the 1DX series bodies need a tough reliable body. The big body balances out the bigger lens and having identical controls portrait and landscape is key. 

Photographers at the olympics will have multiple 1DX3s and 1DX2s at the games. If canon has a preproduction 1D-R, it will be a C cam. These photographers NEED to get the shot and will use what works and is familiar. 

I own a 1DX2 (well did until someone stole mine, replacement coming this week) and have also used an EOS R. EOS R can’t touch the 1DX2. I would be hesitant to use the 1D-R as a primary camera for the olympics. 

The 1DX-R will come, but I feel that it will run parallel with the standard 1DX for quite some time.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 13, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Oh dear just another mild bump like the 1DXII itself it seems. Will be left for dead by D6 and A9 II if this is the case. So sad to see Canon just limp along barely doing the minimum to survive.


Yes, poor Canon...limping along with barely 50% market share and having been #1 globally for barely 15 years and counting.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 13, 2019)

TMHKR said:


> What could possibly 1DX3 bring that's not already good enough on 1DX2? I expect maybe a new processor, a bit better ISO and DR, but that's it.


No there’s a pretty good list of incremental improvements that should be made, personally I'd like:-

30MP
Illuminated buttons
Full touch screen
Tilt/swivel screen
Built in intavalometer
Built in wireless
240fps 1080
Same stills fps
C-Log
.CR3
Much fuller wireless control
Uncropped 4k
Built in RT flash controller
Dual pixel sub image RAW option
Dual CFast


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## peterzuehlke (Mar 13, 2019)

archiea said:


> Love the R, however this past weekend, I shot alot outdoors, and in that light, I missed an optical viewfinder....


I find that true with my Sony mirrorless too. They are good for some things, but I don't think they are up to dslr performance for many situations.


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## peterzuehlke (Mar 13, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> No there’s a pretty good list of incremental improvements that should be made, personally I'd like:-
> 
> 30MP
> Illuminated buttons
> ...


eye AF would be too much to ask for HaHa


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## privatebydesign (Mar 13, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Oh dear just another mild bump like the 1DXII itself it seems. Will be left for dead by D6 and A9 II if this is the case. So sad to see Canon just limp along barely doing the minimum to survive.
> 
> 1DXII was woeful update if you don't care about 4K. 1DXIII needs to be a bigger update than the change form 1D4 to 1DX to be viable.


I disagree, but I disagreed in practice and bought two 1DX MkII’s, maybe you haven’t actually used both and compared them?


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## privatebydesign (Mar 13, 2019)

peterzuehlke said:


> eye AF would be too much to ask for HaHa


That would be a Live View only feature so not of huge interest to me. If it has it I’ll take it and use it....


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## PureClassA (Mar 13, 2019)

amorse said:


> I agree with the logic, but I am more so wondering if that's a marketing priority. It seems like Canon likes to give each and every model its time in the lime light before they introduce something new, and the 1DX III is likely the priority for the olympics.
> 
> On the other hand, part of me wonders if the timing of projected release is telling here. The 1DX II preceded the 5D IV by a few months in 2016, meaning that in following the same schedule we should then expect a 5D V some time in 2020 following the 1DX III. However, now we're hearing that the high resolution body will come next, potentially in the time frame we would otherwise expect a 5D V. This makes me wonder if the high resolution R is the true spiritual successor to the 5D IV, and the EOS R is intended to be a down-market version of the 5D for the "do everything pretty well" niche. If the 5D V release time slot is potentially occupied by this resolution-focused R body, when or will we see a 5D V? Interesting times.



The EOS R Pro model from everything we have been hearing will be the successor to the 5DS/R. Not the 5D4. The 5D3/4 line are the wedding professional's workhorse and they don't want a super high res model as it is more trouble/data than they want/need. The 5DS/R bodies were specialty cameras the EOS R Pro would be most apt to replace. There will still be a 5D5 DSLR body as there is WAY too much glass out there already that won't be replaced anytime soon. The EOS R was meant to be a sidewise to help transition to MILC by using the same 5D4 sensor.

MILC bodies don't offer any massive "upgrade" to DSLR for full time pros. They just don't. This will be a slow transition by Canon that will last the better part of a decade.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 13, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> The EOS R Pro model from everything we have been hearing will be the successor to the 5DS/R. Not the 5D4. The 5D3/4 line are the wedding professional's workhorse and they don't want a super high res model as it is more trouble/data than they want/need. The 5DS/R bodies were specialty cameras the EOS R Pro would be most apt to replace. There will still be a 5D5 DSLR body as there is WAY too much glass out there already that won't be replaced anytime soon. The EOS R was meant to be a sidewise to help transition to MILC by using the same 5D4 sensor.
> 
> MILC bodies don't offer any massive "upgrade" to DSLR for full time pros. They just don't. This will be a slow transition by Canon that will last the better part of a decade.


At the moment I am using 2 1DX MkII’s, I can see me transitioning to 1 1DX MkIII and 1 hi resolution R as a complimentary pairing. My 11-24 and TS-E17 will both take on new leases of life when I can easily filter them with CPL’s and ND’s of an affordable and transportable size.


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## unfocused (Mar 13, 2019)

It's always interesting to hear what Canon should do from people who have never owned and who never will own a 1 series camera.


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## unfocused (Mar 13, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Canon is DOOOOOOOMED !!!!! I tell you! Doooooooooooooooomed !!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> The CRUEL NATURE of this is something I cannot speak about as of yet.... but I can tell that a NEW company now has 100 reasons compared to Canon's 93! Guess what Canon! Sometimes the 1000 pound Gorilla SMACKS EVERYONE and TRULY -- TRULY --- demonstrates with monstrous proof that he IS King of the Beasts!
> 
> ...



Off your meds I see.


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## Don Haines (Mar 13, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Off your meds I see.


Or this might be on the meds!


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## kaptainkatsu (Mar 13, 2019)

unfocused said:


> It's always interesting to hear what Canon should do from people who have never owned and who never will own a 1 series camera.



I have a friend who only used 5D/6D's and used a 1DX for an event. He always thought it was an overkill and told me I was wasting my money. Now he's hooked and told me he can see why I spent all that money and why I rave about it.


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## unfocused (Mar 13, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> No there’s a pretty good list of incremental improvements that should be made, personally I'd like:-
> 
> 30MP
> Illuminated buttons
> ...



Of course preferences differ. I would put autofocus improvements at the top of my personal list. In fact, mine is fairly short:


Better autofocus, including improved eye/face tracking
Silent mode that isn't a joke
Sensor that isn't a dust magnet
28-34 MP
Full touch screen
Built in wireless/with more intuitive interface
Slightly higher fps
Dual CFast (I'd actually like to see the 7D and 5D go to CFast as well and drop CF)

Not expecting all of this. I'd be happy with 50-60%. 

I don't see a mirrorless replacing the 1D series in the foreseeable future, if ever. Canon will continue the 1D series as long as it sells and users of the 1D series being the most conservative buyers out there means I expect it to outlive me.


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## Don Haines (Mar 13, 2019)

kaptainkatsu said:


> I have a friend who only used 5D/6D's and used a 1DX for an event. He always thought it was an overkill and told me I was wasting my money. Now he's hooked and told me he can see why I spent all that money and why I rave about it.


I don't have one myself, but from my limited time with one I can safely say that it feels better in my hands than any other camera that I have ever used, and triple that for portrait mode!


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## slclick (Mar 13, 2019)

Wait, did someone say the R system has been around for 'so long' and therefore where is the Pro body? Cripes, have a little patience, people, it's a virtue for a reason.


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## amorse (Mar 13, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> The EOS R Pro model from everything we have been hearing will be the successor to the 5DS/R. Not the 5D4. The 5D3/4 line are the wedding professional's workhorse and they don't want a super high res model as it is more trouble/data than they want/need. The 5DS/R bodies were specialty cameras the EOS R Pro would be most apt to replace. There will still be a 5D5 DSLR body as there is WAY too much glass out there already that won't be replaced anytime soon. The EOS R was meant to be a sidewise to help transition to MILC by using the same 5D4 sensor.
> 
> MILC bodies don't offer any massive "upgrade" to DSLR for full time pros. They just don't. This will be a slow transition by Canon that will last the better part of a decade.


I don't disagree, but I was really just observing that the timing seems off based on the last couple releases of the 1D and 5D series. I'm not suggesting what could or should replace a 5D series body, nor what people want or need. The 1DX ii was released in Feb of 2016, and the 5D IV followed in August of 2016. The 1DX was released in March of 2012, and the 5D III was also released in March 2012. Now we're hearing that the 1DX iii will be released in close proximity to a high-resolution body, with no mention of a 5D V. Maybe it's too early to hear more about a 5D V, but if this schedule was to be kept and the rumour to be true, then we'd expect a 1DXIII, 5DV, and a high resolution R body to be released in close proximity.


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## Jethro (Mar 13, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> If they plan on releasing a mirrorless pro body (which I take to mean a 1d equivalent) AFTER the 1dx3, then we might actually expect the 70+mp 5ds-equivalent out sooner.


I think this is the right interpretation - the 70mp recent rumour probably relates to the 5DS equivalent, with a 'pro' mirrorless body waiting until they can do something more with mirrorless fps etc. To me the interesting thing about a new 1DX model (with by definition a new sensor), is that there will be an 'old' 1DX sensor (fully amortised) available for potential re-use in an EOS R series body.


----------



## ERHP (Mar 13, 2019)

This will probably be a preorder for me...again. I expect modest increases in MP, IQ and possibly FPS. Like some others have said, a truly silent mode would be great, even if its using live view. And if there is a 70+MP R camera released, I'll probably swap out my 5DSR since I'll still be able to use all my EF L glass.


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## ethanz (Mar 13, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I don't have one myself, but from my limited time with one I can safely say that it feels better in my hands than any other camera that I have ever used, and triple that for portrait mode!



Minus holding it in your hands all day long and then your hand starts to ache from the size and weight lol...


----------



## ethanz (Mar 13, 2019)

slclick said:


> Wait, did someone say the R system has been around for 'so long' and therefore where is the Pro body? Cripes, have a little patience, people, it's a virtue for a reason.



Six months is a long time man.


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## ethanz (Mar 13, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Better autofocus, including improved eye/face tracking
> Silent mode that isn't a joke
> Sensor that isn't a dust magnet
> 28-34 MP
> ...



I would agree with better stills AF. Full touch screen would be nice. Better silent mode would be good. Hopefully they could make it so the sensor isn't a magnet, but it seems like they've had that problem for a while. 30MP is great. I'm fine with the FPS now. Video is great as it is. Dual CFast would be nice. As both of you mention, some kind of built in wireless would be appreciated. The IQ is already great. I suppose .CR3 could be good.


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## preppyak (Mar 13, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> No there’s a pretty good list of incremental improvements that should be made, personally I'd like:-
> 
> 30MP
> Illuminated buttons
> ...


There's definitely room for stronger video features, since the 1D-X is priced at a point that doesnt hurt their Cine line. C-log, 10-bit recording...still leaves their Cinema RAW to distinguish their Cine cameras. Im honestly beginning to believe Canon cant do uncropped full-frame 4k in a DSLR body, but the 1DX would make sense if they can.

Tilt/swivel screen is something I cant ever see them doing if the 5D didnt go that way


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## HarryFilm (Mar 13, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Or this might be on the meds!



---

Technically, I AM MY OWN MEDICINE! I'm your cringe-worthy rumour gravy train steaming in from across the pond with some INSIDE DOPE on FAAAANTASTIC AV and mobile gear coming soon from some of the BIGGEST and BADDEST companies out there! Stuff with technical specs, prices and SHEER IMAGE QUALITY unmatched by anyone else! ..... AND ..... it's right here .... just around the corner .... !!!!! AND YOU TOO CAN BUY IT ALL !!!! -- CAN YOU FEEL THE THUNDER ????
.


----------



## bellorusso (Mar 13, 2019)

I still have my Canon 1Ds Mark2 from billion years ago. It works almost like new. I did not use it for years tho. This line is simply undestroyable


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## Silverstream (Mar 13, 2019)

proutprout said:


> 1dx is not really news here, only new thing is that Canon decided for sure to create unsellable glass. Like why on earth we have R pro glass with no pro body for SO LONG ! That doesnt make any kind of sense. Yes glass looks nice but what should we do with that. Look at it online and think : maybe one day someone will realize at canon that they actually have to work on a pro body ?!?


I very much agree with you and its why I believe a pro body (5dmkIV) is coming far sooner than most people are anticipating. I'm guessing fall at the latest. It doesn't make sense otherwise. The rumor road map has been very inaccurate lately until shortly before the actual introduction of new bodies. Its also a key moneymaker for them in a key pro segment and there have been a lot of Sony defections.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 13, 2019)

MrFotoFool said:


> With the EOS system being replaced by R system, I can't imagine they will sell many of these. And even if there is "no word as to whether or not this would be the last of the line" I am pretty sure it will be.


You are going to be SO dissapointed when Canon continues it's DSLR linage....the R is apart of the existing EOS system...sitting alongside the DSLR range.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 13, 2019)

Adelino said:


> Question for you production/engineer types, how hard or expensive is it develop two similar (mirrorless and DSLR) cameras at the same time?


The shutter mechanism is different, although part of it is the same. The sensors are largely the same and currently shared across both formats. In fact, the next generation sensor is kind of what's slowing down the DSLR range replacements. It's clear that the Eos R and RP are using current sensor designs...so they are waiting to release the new sensor designs with new DSLR cameras and then port those over to the Eos RII and Eos RpII in the next refresh cycle.


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## nickorando (Mar 13, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Hmmm, 2 pro bodies to launch, 2 global sporting events in Japan that Canon are major sponsors of over the next few months....
I expect the 1DX III at the Rugby World Cup in Q4, and the R Pro at the Olympics.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 13, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> “Pro” is a marketing term.....
> 
> A professional uses the appropriate camera for the job and has to also bring affordability into the equation. The most expensive camera and lens is not always the best for the job.... just look at the number of GoPro cameras in professional motor Sports! Sometimes tiny is everything. Sometimes the camera is disposable. Sometimes (pro sports) there is no substitute for a 1DX2 and a 600F4, but you never see a wedding shot with that combo.
> 
> ...



Yes I agree, a few years back it was reveled that the most popular professional DSLR of all time was a Canon 5DmkII. Which is partly why it's replacement was built as a mini 1Dx (same AF system, dual cards and far better build). 

In fact my entire professional shooting career has been using a pair of 5D series cameras. 

The last royal wedding here in the Uk...a 1Dx and a 600mm f4 was used...the photos of the Bride entering and the couple leaving the Cathedral were shot using this combo....so it does happen...just not that often.


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## ArtisanCraft (Mar 13, 2019)

proutprout said:


> 1dx is not really news here, only new thing is that Canon decided for sure to create unsellable glass. Like why on earth we have R pro glass with no pro body for SO LONG ! That doesnt make any kind of sense. Yes glass looks nice but what should we do with that. Look at it online and think : maybe one day someone will realize at canon that they actually have to work on a pro body ?!?



Nikon did the same thing. However, they don't even have pro glass. If we're talking dual card slots, then neither of them are pro. If we're talking photography, both are on the same level. Nikon has better video but some people don't care about that. Pro video is clearly not what Canon was aiming for in the R.

I think Canon and Nikon should just wake up and hire YOU as their CEO. You will show them how it's done! If both these companies decided to enter mirrorless without a pro body, they both must be wrong, and you are better and should run both these companies simultaneously, because you are clearly more qualified.


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## SecureGSM (Mar 13, 2019)

TMHKR said:


> What could possibly 1DX3 bring that's not already good enough on 1DX2? I expect maybe a new processor, a bit better ISO and DR, but that's it.



AF ability down to -5EV. Now that would be a convincing option. Confident AF in extremely low light conditions. Sweet.


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## Del Paso (Mar 13, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Oh dear just another mild bump like the 1DXII itself it seems. Will be left for dead by D6 and A9 II if this is the case. So sad to see Canon just limp along barely doing the minimum to survive.
> 
> 1DXII was woeful update if you don't care about 4K. 1DXIII needs to be a bigger update than the change form 1D4 to 1DX to be viable.


Do you believe real pros base their buying decision on spec-sheets?


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## Del Paso (Mar 13, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Technically, I AM MY OWN MEDICINE! I'm your cringe-worthy rumour gravy train steaming in from across the pond with some INSIDE DOPE on FAAAANTASTIC AV and mobile gear coming soon from some of the BIGGEST and BADDEST companies out there! Stuff with technical specs, prices and SHEER IMAGE QUALITY unmatched by anyone else! ..... AND ..... it's right here .... just around the corner .... !!!!! AND YOU TOO CAN BUY IT ALL !!!! -- CAN YOU FEEL THE THUNDER ????
> .


Give the man some Prozac, quick!


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Mar 13, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Technically, I AM MY OWN MEDICINE! I'm your cringe-worthy rumour gravy train steaming in from across the pond with some INSIDE DOPE on FAAAANTASTIC AV and mobile gear coming soon from some of the BIGGEST and BADDEST companies out there! Stuff with technical specs, prices and SHEER IMAGE QUALITY unmatched by anyone else! ..... AND ..... it's right here .... just around the corner .... !!!!! AND YOU TOO CAN BUY IT ALL !!!! -- CAN YOU FEEL THE THUNDER ????
> .


Wtf?


----------



## MartinF. (Mar 13, 2019)

With the newly updated EF (L) lenses I quess that Canon will stay loyal to the EF mount for years to come. 
2019 will be the year for EOS-R and RF. 2020 - 2021 will probably give us some hints on the future of the DSLR series and EF mount.


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## LDS (Mar 13, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Like why on earth we have R pro glass with no pro body for SO LONG ! That doesnt make any kind of sense.



If Canon releases soon the high megapixel camera it will be some sort of pro body to take advantage of those lenses - just not the 1Dx type, but the 1Dx too is not a camera for every pro task - i.e. studio photography, etc. 

I'm quite sure Canon is waiting to resolve any teething issues of the new RF system before fully aiming it at professionals working in time-demanding environments like news/sport photography and the like where extreme reliability is a must. Put in many more hands -i ncluding professionals ones - so new designs and production pipeline can be fully validated and reliability tested.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 13, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> ...there have been a lot of Sony defections.


You’re not the first to claim this, and you won’t be the last. But until Canon actually loses market share, which they haven’t so far, such claims will remain baseless. 

This concludes the first reality-slap of the day.


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## Dreamwalker Photography (Mar 13, 2019)

MrFotoFool said:


> With the EOS system being replaced by R system, I can't imagine they will sell many of these. And even if there is "no word as to whether or not this would be the last of the line" I am pretty sure it will be.



The R system is also an EOS system. I think you meant EF being replaced by R. Nevertheless, where did you get that Idea? EF bodies and glass is not going anywhere anytime soon.

As much as I love my Sony a9, I will grab the 1D X Mk III as soon as it hits the streets. As another poster said, the X bodies are a business expense and a profit center. We either write off the cost or get subsidized by Canon. The D X market is completely different than other bodies.


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## NorskHest (Mar 13, 2019)

dolina said:


> A body like this will reduce to actual street price after the Olympics is done in August 2020. Before that you pay a premium.


A new 1dxmkii still goes for 5500 a new one, the mkiii will not see a price reduction till probably its third year of its cycle. Once you have gone to the 1D series it’s hard to come back from. The mkiii will have to be pretty good to get people to upgrade from the mkii.


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## slclick (Mar 13, 2019)

A league of its own.


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## degos (Mar 13, 2019)

NorskHest said:


> The mkiii will have to be pretty good to get people to upgrade from the mkii.



'People' perhaps, but it'll be simple for commercial outfits who will have depreciated their 1DX2s. When you're relying on depreciation to reduce income tax libaility then it makes sense to switch-up and restart the cycle.

Personally I think the 1DX3 will have a resolution bump, dual CFast and perhaps an AF push to all-cross-points, but little else. Certainly no swivel screens or illuminated buttons that aren't compatible with 3 - 5 years of hard daily use.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 13, 2019)

amorse said:


> Canon will stop updating the 1DX series when people stop buying them. Reliability and familiarity are foundations you can build a business on and until other manufacturers are *perceived* to have the same reliability and familiarity in the professional user base, I suspect the 1DX II will continue to be a staple in the industry.
> 
> My biggest question in all of this is if all the other manufacturers continue to have more rapid replacement cycles than Canon, the opportunity for them to catch up in areas that matter would be greater. I wonder if Canon will stick to the 4-5 year cycle if competitors stick with 2-3 for the long haul.



If you get it right the first time, like Canon does especially with the 1 series you don't need to go on a 2-3 year cycle as the camera is just that far ahead and good. Canon has competitors who toss all kinds of bells and whistles and only work half ass and thus need to be constantly upgraded to correct all the mistakes of rushing a half baked camera out in the pro level. Nikon has a similar philosophy as Canon it seems as well. Do it right the first time so you don't have to keep fixing the camera with new itterations.
I like this philosophy as I know I have a camera that is not obsolete in a couple of years.


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## Trey T (Mar 13, 2019)

miketcool said:


> This is a specific market and they will sell similar numbers. 1DX owners don’t see a price, they see profit. It’s a necessary expense, not an investment or luxury item. If my year continues they way it has been, I’ll be upgrading when it lands without thought.


yup. Theres 1 sport/wildlife photog of every 1000 photogs total.


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## JBSF (Mar 13, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Wtf?



Welcome to CR. Harry is all of the pathological trollers from DPR rolled into The Hulk.


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## PureClassA (Mar 13, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Minus holding it in your hands all day long and then your hand starts to ache from the size and weight lol...



Its really not bad. You get used to it quick. Plus the greater balance with larger glass offsets a lot of the uneven weight distribution when putting lenses like the 70-200 on smaller bodies like the 5


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## Architect1776 (Mar 13, 2019)

padam said:


> Depends on the definition of what 'Pro' means. If it means dual cards, stabilisation and a joystick, it means that in the current generation of mirrorless cameras, right now the 'border' has been laid out at the EOS R and any models (probably two of them) placed above it can have these things.
> There is a good chance that the EOS R Mark II will have these things, crossing that border next time, but that's a long way.
> 
> It used to be the same with other things in the old days, for the full-frame you had to get the 1Ds, after that came the 5D which made that more accessible, then the 6D, now the EOS RP, same with the 4k with the 1DC, then the 1DXII then the 5DIV, etc.



It would be interesting to see how many real pros us 4K in the 1DX MII. Or how many even bother with using it for video at all.
I suspect that if one is a pro shooting video spending that kind of money you will get a dedicated pro level video camera.
As I watch sports and news it appears that stills dominate the pro market rather than make short video clips.
I would say a large majority of those using the 1DX MII use it for stills only and likely would have a hard time shooting a video.


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## NorskHest (Mar 13, 2019)

degos said:


> 'People' perhaps, but it'll be simple for commercial outfits who will have depreciated their 1DX2s. When you're relying on depreciation to reduce income tax libaility then it makes sense to switch-up and restart the cycle.
> 
> Personally I think the 1DX3 will have a resolution bump, dual CFast and perhaps an AF push to all-cross-points, but little else. Certainly no swivel screens or illuminated buttons that aren't compatible with 3 - 5 years of hard daily use.


In the business sense I totally agree with you actually I agree with pretty much everything you said, But for the hobbyist it will have to be significant or maybe it won’t, most people on this page would probably buy one just to say they did and make a YouTube video about it. For those who don’t shoot professionally to say the camera needs a tilty flippy screen or some other dumb feature that would detract from reliability don’t understand canon or the pro user. I don’t want anything that could potentially break or render my camera body useless. Would illuminated buttons be nice? Maybe but I have memorized where the buttons are, we working professionals don’t need the gimmick, we want proven reliability. I shoot in mud and down pouring rain at times and a evf seems like a point of failure for those situations.


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## RunAndGun (Mar 13, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Minus holding it in your hands all day long and then your hand starts to ache from the size and weight lol...



A lot of people don’t realize that, within reason, a larger grip is much easier on your hand/joints to hold for extended periods of time(like shooting long sporting events), especially if it’s “heavy”.


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## padam (Mar 13, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> It would be interesting to see how many real pros us 4K in the 1DX MII. Or how many even bother with using it for video at all.
> I suspect that if one is a pro shooting video spending that kind of money you will get a dedicated pro level video camera.
> As I watch sports and news it appears that stills dominate the pro market rather than make short video clips.
> I would say a large majority of those using the 1DX MII use it for stills only and likely would have a hard time shooting a video.


Not necessarily true, there are a handful of users, who bought it for specifically for its video capabilities (YT seems to be a big thing these days and this is still one of the best cameras out there for that specific purpose), but of course with the intention of taking stills with it as well, so it is a hybrid camera in that regard. Compared to the other 4k60p capable camera, the GH5 it has video AF and it is also a much stronger stills camera and of course it fully belongs to the EF lens system as well (no need to use adapters, etc.).
And no, you can't get a C200 for the same amount of money, it costs a good bit more (and actually the 1080p120fps is actually weaker than the 1DXII) and of course it is video only.
In theory, Canon could make a smaller camera to give access to these features. But they simply don't, so if someone is looking into getting a Canon for video, he has to go for the 1DXII (or higher) to get them, simple as that. Apart from C-Log it is still a massive upgrade over the 1DC (which is basically only usable for 4k24p and it has a s35mm crop mode 1080p, but it doesn't even have a decent 60p slow-motion mode, or AF, and the rolling shutter is much worse) as well as being a lot more accessible pricing-wise.


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## kaptainkatsu (Mar 13, 2019)

I absolutely do not want a tilty flippy screen on the 1DX3. There are far too many times I’m running across a venue or field to get a shot and the last thing I want to worry about is if I’m going to break the screen. I’ll put on my monitor if I need a video screen. 

My wish list:
Better AF
Dual card slot of the same card (CFast or CFExpress)
24-26mp
Clog
10bit 4:2:2
I’m ok with the 14fps
Built in WiFi or just charge us less for the WiFi dongle
A little bit more customization in the buttons.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 13, 2019)

kaptainkatsu said:


> I absolutely do not want a tilty flippy screen on the 1DX3. There are far too many times I’m running across a venue or field to get a shot and the last thing I want to worry about is if I’m going to break the screen. I’ll put on my monitor if I need a video screen.
> 
> My wish list:
> Better AF
> ...


My desire for a moving screeen is based on photography wants not video. I’d rather have an M5 style tiliting screen than a 80D style swivel screen. I have found tilting screen to be very useful for low and overhead images, and the concerns about durability are largely unfounded, these screens can be made entirely waterproof at very low cost. And robust enough for even the clumsiest of shooters, a simple lock button would ensure those that do not want them would never be impacted by having one, whilst those that see the functionality of them can compose overhead shots others simply can’t.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 13, 2019)

padam said:


> Not necessarily true, there are a handful of users, who bought it for specifically for its video capabilities (YT seems to be a big thing these days and this is still one of the best cameras out there for that specific purpose), but of course with the intention of taking stills with it as well, so it is a hybrid camera in that regard. Compared to the other 4k60p capable camera, the GH5 it has video AF and it is also a much stronger stills camera and of course it fully belongs to the EF lens system as well (no need to use adapters, etc.).
> And no, you can't get a C200 for the same amount of money, it costs a good bit more (and actually the 1080p120fps is actually weaker than the 1DXII) and of course it is video only.
> In theory, Canon could make a smaller camera to give access to these features. But they simply don't, so if someone is looking into getting a Canon for video, he has to go for the 1DXII (or higher) to get them, simple as that. Apart from C-Log it is still a massive upgrade over the 1DC (which is basically only usable for 4k24p and it has a s35mm crop mode 1080p, but it doesn't even have a decent 60p slow-motion mode, or AF, and the rolling shutter is much worse) as well as being a lot more accessible pricing-wise.



A handful is a confirmation of what I wrote.


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## peterzuehlke (Mar 13, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> That would be a Live View only feature so not of huge interest to me. If it has it I’ll take it and use it....


yeah, probably would require way too much resolution for an off sensor dslr AF, (for ovf use)


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## Don Haines (Mar 13, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> My desire for a moving screeen is based on photography wants not video. I’d rather have an M5 style tiliting screen than a 80D style swivel screen. I have found tilting screen to be very useful for low and overhead images, and the concerns about durability are largely unfounded, these screens can be made entirely waterproof at very low cost. And robust enough for even the clumsiest of shooters, a simple lock button would ensure those that do not want them would never be impacted by having one, whilst those that see the functionality of them can compose overhead shots others simply can’t.



For high angle shots an articulated screen is worth its weight in gold. Mine spends most of its time folded flat against the camera like a normal screen so worries about it sticking out when I move around are unfounded. Plus, if you reverse the screen for storage/travel it is BETTER protected than a normal screen.


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## padam (Mar 13, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> A handful is a confirmation of what I wrote.


Neither of us know how many they've sold and for what purpose, that's the truth. But if we are looking at stills performance only, the 1DX is already extremely strong there, so the upgrade might not be needed anyway, but for video, the Mark II is incomparably better (the 1DX hasn't even got a headphone jack, unlike the 1DC...).


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## Ozarker (Mar 13, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> For high angle shots an articulated screen is worth its weight in gold. Mine spends most of its time folded flat against the camera like a normal screen so worries about it sticking out when I move around are unfounded. Plus, if you reverse the screen for storage/travel it is BETTER protected than a normal screen.


And wouldn't carrying a monitor be also subject to damage incidents? I don't get the arguments against a flip screen on a 1D series body. Like you say, the screen can be carried in the folded flat position. That is the single thing I missed when switching from a 70D to the 5D mark III... the flip screen and the added convenience/capabilities it offered for an old guy like me. Especially the high/low angle stuff. I'd be thrilled if a 5D mark V (1DX Mark III is above my pay grade) gets the fully articulated screen.


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## Ozarker (Mar 13, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> It would be interesting to see how many real pros us 4K in the 1DX MII. Or how many even bother with using it for video at all.
> I suspect that if one is a pro shooting video spending that kind of money you will get a dedicated pro level video camera.
> As I watch sports and news it appears that stills dominate the pro market rather than make short video clips.
> I would say a large majority of those using the 1DX MII use it for stills only and likely would have a hard time shooting a video.


Thing is that "real pros" aren't the whole of the market. I'd imagine that enthusiast baby boomers with $$$$ are the biggest part of the market. That said, if I ever got a 1D series it would be for stills only. Same for my 5D series. Same thing if I went R. I know many here complain about Canon's video features, but for me those features mean nothing. I suspect Canon has a handle on how important/unimportant video is to the larger market, which might be why Canon isn't so aggressive with those features.


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## Don Haines (Mar 13, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Thing is that "real pros" aren't the whole of the market. I'd imagine that enthusiast baby boomers with $$$$ are the biggest part of the market. That said, if I ever got a 1D series it would be for stills only. Same for my 5D series. Same thing if I went R. I know many here complain about Canon's video features, but for me those features mean nothing. I suspect Canon has a handle on how important/unimportant video is to the larger market, which might be why Canon isn't so aggressive with those features.


I agree... and something else that should be pointed out is that for shooting video, the ergonomics of a DSLR are terrible. Note how different the form factor is of a 1DX2 and a C700.... form follows function and if you are serious about video consider going to something with a form factor that allows proper holding and the appropriate controls in the right places.


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## degos (Mar 13, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't get the arguments against a flip screen on a 1D series body. Like you say, the screen can be carried in the folded flat position.



The hinge and bearing need to be designed for years of DAILY use. And they need to be water-sealed. That's a hell of a beating for any rotating fitting. And the connecting ribbon cable needs to remain anchored and instact after years of vibration and falls. And then there's the additional weight, on a camera that's already 1.7kg

I can imagine the 1DX3 receiving a full touch-screen update. But I can't believe that Canon would add mechanical complexity to a functional tool like a 1D; it has to work every time, no margin for a cable getting worn or a hinge getting loose. Certainly not without extensive field testing, which isn't a luxury they appear to have before Summer 2020.


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## Ozarker (Mar 13, 2019)

degos said:


> The hinge and bearing need to be designed for years of DAILY use. And they need to be water-sealed. That's a hell of a beating for any rotating fitting. And the connecting ribbon cable needs to remain anchored and instact after years of vibration and falls. And then there's the additional weight, on a camera that's already 1.7kg
> 
> I can imagine the 1DX3 receiving a full touch-screen update. But I can't believe that Canon would add mechanical complexity to a functional tool like a 1D; it has to work every time, no margin for a cable getting worn or a hinge getting loose. Certainly not without extensive field testing, which isn't a luxury they appear to have before Summer 2020.


Actually, Canon has been testing exactly that in lesser models for years and years. I don't know that a 1D series will ever have it, but it doesn't seem to be a complex problem at all, to me. Maybe somebody here has had problems on lesser bodies, but I have never read of any. If Canon can design a mirror to go a couple hundred thousand cycles without failing, a screen that moves far less violently (and far less often) wouldn't seem like a problem. When I had my 70D the only time the screen got flipped out was for a specific need. It isn't something constant. Either way, I'd love to see one on a possible 5D mark V.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 13, 2019)

RunAndGun said:


> A lot of people don’t realize that, within reason, a larger grip is much easier on your hand/joints to hold for extended periods of time(like shooting long sporting events), especially if it’s “heavy”.


A lot of people complain about problems resulting from something they’ve never actually done. With a 24-70/2.8 or 70-200/2.8 on my 1D X with a handstrap, I can hold it in my hand all day with no problem. I tried that with a smaller/lighter body once. Once, which was enough to teach me never to do that again.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 13, 2019)

Jimmy Chin filmed his Academy Award winning documentary Free Solo, while simultaneously shooting stills for Nat Geo and hanging 1000 ft down a rope from the top of El Capitan with a 1DX Mark II. That’s why people buy 1DX2’s for video. Not sure what else there is to say about it.


----------



## flip314 (Mar 13, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I agree... and something else that should be pointed out is that for shooting video, the ergonomics of a DSLR are terrible. Note how different the form factor is of a 1DX2 and a C700.... form follows function and if you are serious about video consider going to something with a form factor that allows proper holding and the appropriate controls in the right places.



I agree with you to a point, but there are applications for which the form factor is beneficial to video (not to mention people who want it for hybrid stills-video applications). If you mount it on a tripod, either form factor is fine, and if you already have photography gear (video DSLR, tripod) then you're set for the times you do need to do video. For handheld shots, a DSLR on a gimbal is going to be smaller and more nimble than a camcorder with a steadicam setup. The DSLR is also easier to bring around with you if you're looking for candid/spur of the moment videos. There's also lots of reasons you may want a DSLR as a "B" cam.

OTOH, if you're filming TV reporters on location (or filming a proper TV show/movie), you probably do want the larger shoulder-rest setup.


----------



## ethanz (Mar 13, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> A lot of people complain about problems resulting from something they’ve never actually done. With a 24-70/2.8 or 70-200/2.8 on my 1D X with a handstrap, I can hold it in my hand all day with no problem. I tried that with a smaller/lighter body once. Once, which was enough to teach me never to do that again.



Are you telling me that you can hold all that weight in your hands and grip it well and not have sore hands at the end of the day? Because a lot of times when I do it, my hand does ache.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 13, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Jimmy Chin filmed his Academy Award winning documentary Free Solo, while simultaneously shooting stills for Nat Geo and hanging 1000 ft down a rope from the top of El Capitan with a 1DX Mark II. That’s why people buy 1DX2’s for video. Not sure what else there is to say about it.


And David Breshears carried an IMAX camera to the top of Mount Everest.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Wtf?




My quote simply means that an 8K (8192 x 6144 pixel) combined video/stills GLOBAL SHUTTER MEDIUM FORMAT SENSOR camera is coming out so very soon now!

This NEW high end ruggedized PRO-series with user-defineable 1.89:1/16:9/4:3 aspect ratio of 60 fps DCI 8K (8192 x 4320 pixel) at up-to-16 bits per channel (64-bit colour!) 4:4:4:4 TRUE RGBA/YCbCrA RAW/2:1 RAW/3:1 RAW/4:1 RAW ... or ... up-to-16 bits per channel 4:4:4/4:2:2 Interframe compressed H.265 and/or MP4/H.264 at up to 120 fps DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) ...OR ... 480 fps DCI 2K (2048 x 1080 pixel) video at 16 bit 4:4:4 full-sensor-size sampled, and centre-cropped 960 fps 16 bits 4:4:4 super-slow-motion video ... PLUS .... a FULL 50.3 Megapixel RAW uncompressed and JPEG-2000 wavelet-compressed 4:4:4/4:2:2 still photos with user-selectable up to 60 fps Burst speed in a five second super-fast-buffer camera with a super-high quality series of large format f/1.2 to f/2 prime lenses and f/2.4 zooms coming right out of the gate at product introduction! These are much larger MF sensors so light sensitivity and LOW noise levels is outstanding!

THEN IN ADDITION ... a series of 5.5 and 6.5 inch smartphones for the FIRST TIME, one with a 50+ megapixel Global Shutter 2/3rds inch AND a version with a 50+ megapixel One Inch sensor are being introduced at the SAME time as the big pro-cameras. These smartphones have 60 fps interframe 10 bit 4:2:2 compressed DCI 8K (8192 4320) and 120 fps DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) video and 50.3 megapixel 4:4:4 RAW and Compressed 4:4:4/4:2:2 JPEG-2000 stills.
These will have quite excellent light sensitivity compared to many smartphones!

---

I may SOUND crazy, but I got inner information access you simply don't have AND i'm being ALLOWED to post here by management and THAT is definitely NOT A NORMAL THING for this company to do !!!!!!!!!

Get Read Canon ... The FUTURE IS COMING NOW !!!!
.


----------



## flip314 (Mar 13, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> I may SOUND crazy



That's the one thing you've posted here that I think most people will agree with.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 13, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> And David Breshears carried an IMAX camera to the top of Mount Everest.



---

Try carrying and HIKING with 75 lbs+ worth of BetaSP/DigiBeta, NicCad batteries and Water-pacs in a desert environment for 20 miles in a day for weeks straight AND carrying an M4 with all its mags too! NOT LIGHT! A Canon 1Dx2 system would have been A DREAM to have at the time for weight saving grace!
.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 13, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Are you telling me that you can hold all that weight in your hands and grip it well and not have sore hands at the end of the day? Because a lot of times when I do it, my hand does ache.


His arms/hands are almost as stout as his intellect. Only a problem for mortals.  I carry my 70-200 f/2.8L II on my 5D mark III all day, but my arms are far stronger than my intellect.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 13, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Try carrying and HIKING with 75 lbs+ worth of BetaSP/DigiBeta, NicCad batteries and Water-pacs in a desert environment for 20 miles in a day for weeks straight AND carrying an M4 with all its mags too! NOT LIGHT! A Canon 1Dx2 system would have been A DREAM to have at the time for weight saving grace!
> .


Hmmmm.... was the helicopter in the shop?


----------



## Yasko (Mar 13, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> It's a guess, but I suspect you don't own the EOS R
> 
> I have the 5DS and EOS R, and understand why the glass available now is useful, both EF and RF



Could you share your wisdom with us?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Mar 13, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> I still have my Canon 1Ds Mark2 from billion years ago. It works almost like new. I did not use it for years tho. This line is simply undestroyable


Just curious. How do you know it works almost like new if you haven't used it for years?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Mar 14, 2019)

kaptainkatsu said:


> I absolutely do not want a tilty flippy screen on the 1DX3. There are far too many times I’m running across a venue or field to get a shot and the last thing I want to worry about is if I’m going to break the screen. I’ll put on my monitor if I need a video screen.



But you don't have to tilt or flip it. It can be positioned exactly like a fixed screen.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Mar 14, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> My quote simply means that an 8K (8192 x 6144 pixel) combined video/stills GLOBAL SHUTTER MEDIUM FORMAT SENSOR camera is coming out so very soon now!



Global bullshutter? Interesting.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Mar 14, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Jimmy Chin filmed his Academy Award winning documentary Free Solo, while simultaneously shooting stills for Nat Geo and hanging 1000 ft down a rope from the top of El Capitan with a 1DX Mark II. That’s why people buy 1DX2’s for video. Not sure what else there is to say about it.



So a typical 1DX2 user will typically hang 1000ft down a rope from a top of a cliff?


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 14, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> And David Breshears carried an IMAX camera to the top of Mount Everest.


All due respect to Mr Breshears but I seem to recall he had a little help. 

In any event, Chin could have used any video cam on the market, had access to anything in Canon’s portfolio, had several C300’s on site and yet he personally used a 1DX Mark II because he thought it was the best tool for the job. He also used them for pre positioned remotes.

No argument on the ergos of DSLRs for video. As you say, the 1DX2, (or any dslr) is far from an ideal video camera but that doesn’t mean it can’t excel in certain conditions. That’s why people buy and use 1DX2s for video as hard as it is for some anti video folks to accept.

Not referring to you as anti-video Don. Your post on ergonomics was valid as far as general purpose video is concerned. I’d love to have a Cinema camera for that but my 1DX2 gets the job done for now.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 14, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> So a typical 1DX2 user will typically hang 1000ft down a rope from a top of a cliff?


Yes.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 14, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Jimmy Chin filmed his Academy Award winning documentary Free Solo, while simultaneously shooting stills for Nat Geo and hanging 1000 ft down a rope from the top of El Capitan with a 1DX Mark II. That’s why people buy 1DX2’s for video. Not sure what else there is to say about it.


As though a 1DX Mark II was the required equipment for such a stunt.  Could have taken a 60D. Either would have broken into smithereens from that height if dropped.  Cameras aren't afraid of heights.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 14, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> But you don't have to tilt or flip it. It can be positioned exactly like a fixed screen.


Everyone knows it has to be flipped.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 14, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Are you telling me that you can hold all that weight in your hands and grip it well and not have sore hands at the end of the day? Because a lot of times when I do it, my hand does ache.


Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. With a non-1-series body, my hand hurt. Even with a gripped body (T1i, 5DII or 7D – my prior cameras), the ergonomics are different. 

To be clear, though, the hand strap makes a world of difference. When the camera is at my side instead of at my eye, most of the weight is taken by the strap on the back of my hand, meaning it’s on my arm and not my fingers which are mostly just providing balance and enough grip to keep the body from sliding off.


----------



## ethanz (Mar 14, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. With a non-1-series body, my hand hurt. Even with a gripped body (T1i, 5DII or 7D – my prior cameras), the ergonomics are different.
> 
> To be clear, though, the hand strap makes a world of difference. When the camera is at my side instead of at my eye, most of the weight is taken by the strap on the back of my hand, meaning it’s on my arm and not my fingers which are mostly just providing balance and enough grip to keep the body from sliding off.



Well John, I'm glad it doesn't leave your hand aching. But not all of us that do use the 1dx are so fortunate. I have a used one of those wrist straps, but not sure how much it helped.


----------



## GoldWing (Mar 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I'm a monster. CPS hates me. I'm a pro sports photog and my 1DX and 1DXMKII'S and big whites are rocked by athletes on the sidelines, watered down for America Cup, sand swept on beaches and sea sprayed for kite and windsurfing. Yet, they keep going and keep placing food on the table. Higher resolution? I'm doing two page spreads in hi-gloss magazines and 10ft wide banners for in store displays. You want to improve my 1DXMKII, throw in something "magic" because I'm really happy. Mirrorless?? Have not seen one that can keep up yet!


----------



## unfocused (Mar 14, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Technically, I AM MY OWN MEDICINE! I'm your cringe-worthy rumour gravy train steaming in from across the pond with some INSIDE DOPE on FAAAANTASTIC AV and mobile gear coming soon from some of the BIGGEST and BADDEST companies out there! Stuff with technical specs, prices and SHEER IMAGE QUALITY unmatched by anyone else! ..... AND ..... it's right here .... just around the corner .... !!!!! AND YOU TOO CAN BUY IT ALL !!!! -- CAN YOU FEEL THE THUNDER ????
> .


In all the time you have been posting your crazy claims NOTHING has ever come to fruition. Your trolling ceased to be amusing at least a year ago. It's time for you to get some professional help.


----------



## Talys (Mar 14, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> I'm a monster. CPS hates me. I'm a pro sports photog and my 1DX and 1DXMKII'S and big whites are rocked by athletes on the sidelines, watered down for America Cup, sand swept on beaches and sea sprayed for kite and windsurfing. Yet, they keep going and keep placing food on the table. Higher resolution? I'm doing two page spreads in hi-gloss magazines and 10ft wide banners for in store displays. You want to improve my 1DXMKII, throw in something "magic" because I'm really happy. Mirrorless?? Have not seen one that can keep up yet!


Food on the table? But... but... 4KDRFPSIBISMEGAPIXELS!!!

Glad your 1DX is producing for you


----------



## Jack Douglas (Mar 14, 2019)

I've been 1DX2 for quite a while now and occasionally feel like complaining about the weight but the Jobu foot on my most used lens, the 400 DO is what holds and carries the camera in the crook of my right arm and I do that for many hours with the lens strap supporting most of the weight. It's actually worse with smaller lenses.

Today I got my R plus ND and control ring adapters. A nice little camera but oh does it feel bad with the 400 DO compared to the 1DX2. Whatever weight loss there is, the benefit is lost due to a quickly fatigued hand. With other lenses it'll probably be OK. Dropping down to the buttons and controls of the R is a bummer. I miss the two buttons on the front by the lens a lot and the AF-ON position is just so awkward as to make it a pass. Lots of programability but not in the same league as the 1DX2 if you use advanced AF modes and settings. However, there are different ways of accomplishing things and that is going to ease the pain and make this a nice backup ... until my daughter takes it from me and then I have to decide which model I'll buy. I hope it's one that is physically a little bigger (not heavier).

My biggest regret is that the 1DX2 never got more MPs.

Jack


----------



## Pixel (Mar 14, 2019)

degos said:


> The hinge and bearing need to be designed for years of DAILY use. And they need to be water-sealed. That's a hell of a beating for any rotating fitting. And the connecting ribbon cable needs to remain anchored and instact after years of vibration and falls. And then there's the additional weight, on a camera that's already 1.7kg
> 
> I can imagine the 1DX3 receiving a full touch-screen update. But I can't believe that Canon would add mechanical complexity to a functional tool like a 1D; it has to work every time, no margin for a cable getting worn or a hinge getting loose. Certainly not without extensive field testing, which isn't a luxury they appear to have before Summer 2020.



I, for one, will use the crap out of a tilt screen almost exclusively for stills.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 14, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Hmmmm.... was the helicopter in the shop?



Nope! No Helicopter at the time. But it was an on-ground assignment and old Sony BV-series SP/DigiBeta cameras are DAMN HEAVY and at the time used NiCad which accounted for most of the weight. And sand doesn't take human footsteps well which exhausts you after a while AND it's HOT in the desert! 35+ C! -- The amount of water you have to carry is astounding but even 75+ LBS (30+ KG) is quite doable for 20 miles (30 km) by larger fitter males (i'm 6'1" and 250 lbs). Many of my companions carried over 120 lbs of gear for that same distance! Humans are POWERFUL creatures well adapted for long distance on-ground travel and CAN EASILY take a lot of punishment if well-trained.

P.S. The Bell 429 is gonna be SWEEEEET once it's all prettied up inside!


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 14, 2019)

unfocused said:


> In all the time you have been posting your crazy claims NOTHING has ever come to fruition. Your trolling ceased to be amusing at least a year ago. It's time for you to get some professional help.



--

Actually, I was right about the Canon C700 Cinema Camera which I outlined and brought to CanonRumors attention by highlighting the European-sourced documents I got off of Northlight Images UK website a few years ago! That's ONE thing I got right!

This next prediction is a little different... due to certain aspects I have VERY SPECIFIC knowledge of... 

---

P.S. I don't NEED no professional help! I got my Sambucca and Asbach Uralt brandy to medicate my writings! THEY are my Prozac! Be grateful! I'm entertaining the masses with my literary "Panem et Circenses"! It helps pay CanonRumors BILLS!


----------



## Jack Douglas (Mar 14, 2019)

Entertaining?  Maybe try a different venue.

Jack


----------



## degos (Mar 14, 2019)

Pixel said:


> I, for one, will use the crap out of a tilt screen almost exclusively for stills.



I'm sure it is useful, particularly for macro. I just don't think it will feature on a 1D. Canon don't put anything technically risky on those bodies, for good reason. They remain very conservative. Look how long it took them to make a hole in the chassis for a GPS antenna!


----------



## Del Paso (Mar 14, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> --
> 
> Actually, I was right about the Canon C700 Cinema Camera which I outlined and brought to CanonRumors attention by highlighting the European-sourced documents I got off of Northlight Images UK website a few years ago! That's ONE thing I got right!
> 
> ...


Somebody drinking such a cheap and disgusting Cognac imitation like Asbach Uralt  urgently needs professional help!
This stuff is usually drunk in Germany by drop-outs, age over 80....


----------



## dslrdummy (Mar 14, 2019)

More MP's - say 28/30
Dual CFast cards
Increased coverage of AF points, otherwise the AF is fine for me except when using the Sigma 500 f4 which has serious focus shift
Built-in wifi and GPS
Better high ISO performance
No more fps, it takes me forever now to edit the 2,000-3,000 shots I take at a typical game.
The weight doesn't worry me until I put the 500 on.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 14, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Well John, I'm glad it doesn't leave your hand aching. But not all of us that do use the 1dx are so fortunate. I have a used one of those wrist straps, but not sure how much it helped.


Not sure we’re talking about the same thing, wrist strap ≠ hand strap. 

A wrist strap is a longer, thin loop of material that attaches to the camera at a single point, such that if you let the camera go it dangles from your wrist. They work ok for my kids’ S95/S100 point and shoot cameras (I got them the same kind as are on their WiiU controllers, that cinch to their wrists and lock down). I have a neoprene one for my M6/R, I don’t let the camera dangle (that would be uncomfortable) but it serves as a fail safe in case the camera slips out of my hand, because I don’t use a neck strap. 

A hand strap is a short, wide leather strap that attaches to the camera at two points, leaving just enough room for your hand to slide in between the strap and the camera. It provides extra support both with the camera in use and when held at your side. 







If you haven’t tried one, you should!


----------



## Mikehit (Mar 14, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> My quote simply means that an 8K (8192 x 6144 pixel) combined video/stills GLOBAL SHUTTER MEDIUM FORMAT SENSOR camera is coming out so very soon now!
> 
> This NEW high end ruggedized PRO-series with user-defineable 1.89:1/16:9/4:3 aspect ratio of 60 fps DCI 8K (8192 x 4320 pixel) at up-to-16 bits per channel (64-bit colour!) 4:4:4:4 TRUE RGBA/YCbCrA RAW/2:1 RAW/3:1 RAW/4:1 RAW ... or ... up-to-16 bits per channel 4:4:4/4:2:2 Interframe compressed H.265 and/or MP4/H.264 at up to 120 fps DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) ...OR ... 480 fps DCI 2K (2048 x 1080 pixel) video at 16 bit 4:4:4 full-sensor-size sampled, and centre-cropped 960 fps 16 bits 4:4:4 super-slow-motion video ... PLUS .... a FULL 50.3 Megapixel RAW uncompressed and JPEG-2000 wavelet-compressed 4:4:4/4:2:2 still photos with user-selectable up to 60 fps Burst speed in a five second super-fast-buffer camera with a super-high quality series of large format f/1.2 to f/2 prime lenses and f/2.4 zooms coming right out of the gate at product introduction! These are much larger MF sensors so light sensitivity and LOW noise levels is outstanding!
> 
> ...



All that from one company and that company is not Canon: a MF camera, a full stable of f1.2 and f2 lenses and cameraphones? And only you have heard about it?

Hmmmm.....


----------



## home_slice (Mar 14, 2019)

Canon's flagship camera body should be compatible with their flagship glass. Like most people in this market, I would buy the 1DX III to get a leg up on the compition but combining it with antiquated 50mm lenses when there are faster, sharper, better performing options being made would totally defeat that purpose.


----------



## slclick (Mar 14, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not sure we’re talking about the same thing, wrist strap ≠ hand strap.
> 
> A wrist strap is a longer, thin loop of material that attaches to the camera at a single point, such that if you let the camera go it dangles from your wrist. They work ok for my kids’ S95/S100 point and shoot cameras (I got them the same kind as are on their WiiU controllers, that cinch to their wrists and lock down). I have a neoprene one for my M6/R, I don’t let the camera dangle (that would be uncomfortable) but it serves as a fail safe in case the camera slips out of my hand, because I don’t use a neck strap.
> 
> ...


This is the one I use on all my bodies, Custom SLR. I have used the Canon brand John describes but this is far more comfortable imho. Same design. I don't have the 1D series but with a 5D3, L plate and 20-700 or 100-400L I can hold it many hours, no problem.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Mar 14, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not sure we’re talking about the same thing, wrist strap ≠ hand strap.
> 
> A wrist strap is a longer, thin loop of material that attaches to the camera at a single point, such that if you let the camera go it dangles from your wrist. They work ok for my kids’ S95/S100 point and shoot cameras (I got them the same kind as are on their WiiU controllers, that cinch to their wrists and lock down). I have a neoprene one for my M6/R, I don’t let the camera dangle (that would be uncomfortable) but it serves as a fail safe in case the camera slips out of my hand, because I don’t use a neck strap.
> 
> ...



Ahh.. The trusty Canon E1.. I'm a huge fan of this exact strap. I still have the exact same strap today which I use on my gripped Sony bodies. I've had it for 10+ years and still use it. I find it reduces wrist/finger fatigue by at least 50%-60% or more. When I'm shooting heavy 2.8 zooms, I can just let the camera and lens rest by my side and my fingers don't have to actually grip the body. This also frees up the tripod mount so I can still use my holdfast or blackrapid dual carry systems. I don't think they even sell this anymore. Most of the ones they sell today place their second mounting point against the tripod mount which is not what you want.

I guess the only trade-off is your index finger has reduced mobility operating the front wheel and top plate controls. You can loosen the strap, but it also loses some of its utility in reducing wrist/finger fatigue if you do. Highly recommended if you can find them..


----------



## slclick (Mar 14, 2019)

jayphotoworks said:


> Ahh.. The trusty Canon E1.. I'm a huge fan of this exact strap. I still have the exact same strap today which I use on my gripped Sony bodies. I've had it for 10+ years and still use it. I find it reduces wrist/finger fatigue by at least 50%-60% or more. When I'm shooting heavy 2.8 zooms, I can just let the camera and lens rest by my side and my fingers don't have to actually grip the body. This also frees up the tripod mount so I can still use my holdfast or blackrapid dual carry systems. I don't think they even sell this anymore. Most of the ones they sell today place their second mounting point against the tripod mount which is not what you want.
> 
> I guess the only trade-off is your index finger has reduced mobility operating the front wheel and top plate controls. You can loosen the strap, but it also loses some of its utility in reducing wrist/finger fatigue if you do. Highly recommended if you can find them..


See my reply to this concerning availability. (Plus I think they're much nicer)


----------



## unfocused (Mar 14, 2019)

Not sure how this became a wrist strap thread, but I will play. 

I like wrist straps, but they aren't so great when you are carrying two bodies.  I tried switching back and forth using the OP/TECH system, which is okay, but still a bit of a hassle. Ultimately, I decided to just stick with a neck strap even though it is a pain (literally in the neck). If I ever retire and don't need to carry two bodies around, I will certainly consider this strap.


----------



## slclick (Mar 14, 2019)

I personally use a wrist strap combined with a BR Cross Shot together 90% of the time. The wrist strap is always there, whether I need it or not. I can't imagine taking it off to use a sling or neck strap. Another reason to love the Magpul QD system. I used Neuro's style of the swivel and 1" Arca clamp but found it too bulky, the QD attachment is svelte.


----------



## jhpeterson (Mar 14, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not sure we’re talking about the same thing, wrist strap ≠ hand strap.
> 
> A wrist strap is a longer, thin loop of material that attaches to the camera at a single point, such that if you let the camera go it dangles from your wrist. They work ok for my kids’ S95/S100 point and shoot cameras (I got them the same kind as are on their WiiU controllers, that cinch to their wrists and lock down). I have a neoprene one for my M6/R, I don’t let the camera dangle (that would be uncomfortable) but it serves as a fail safe in case the camera slips out of my hand, because I don’t use a neck strap.
> 
> ...


I have these on two of my 1D series bodies. They're ideal for both "grab and go" situations as well as paired with another camera on a neckstrap. It's not uncommon for me to spend much of a day using a 70-200/2.8 paired with a 1DX.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 14, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Nope! No Helicopter at the time. But it was an on-ground assignment and old Sony BV-series SP/DigiBeta cameras are DAMN HEAVY and at the time used NiCad which accounted for most of the weight. And sand doesn't take human footsteps well which exhausts you after a while AND it's HOT in the desert! 35+ C! -- The amount of water you have to carry is astounding but even 75+ LBS (30+ KG) is quite doable for 20 miles (30 km) by larger fitter males (i'm 6'1" and 250 lbs). Many of my companions carried over 120 lbs of gear for that same distance! Humans are POWERFUL creatures well adapted for long distance on-ground travel and CAN EASILY take a lot of punishment if well-trained.
> 
> P.S. The Bell 429 is gonna be SWEEEEET once it's all prettied up inside!


Surely you rented a Camel.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 14, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Actually, I was right about the Canon C700 Cinema Camera which I outlined and brought to CanonRumors attention by highlighting the European-sourced documents I got off of Northlight Images UK website a few years ago! That's ONE thing I got right!


Batting one out of a thousand does not make you a MVP.


----------



## FTb-n (Mar 14, 2019)

If I were to switch from my 1Dx2 to a future EOS 1Rx, I would want my workhorse lenses to be available in the native EOS R mount. This would include the 70-200 f2.8L IS and the 24-70 f2.8L. There appears to be an EOS R 24-70 f2.8 IS in the works, so we are half way there.

Once I was convinced that the EOS EF adapter didn't hurt performance with the bigger white lenses, I'd be okay with using them on an EOS 1Rx. I may even be okay with buying high-end EOS EF lenses for use on an EOS 1Rx body.

But, when Canon introduces an EOS 1Rx body along with an EOS R 70-200 and an EOS R 24-70 lenses, the market for EF versions of these lenses will fall.

My guess is that marketing, sales of existing stocked lenses, and tooling for EOS R offerings are driving the new 5D and 1Dx offerings more than technology. I suspect the EOS 1Rx technology is almost ready for prime time, but a 5d-V and a 1Dx-III will help drive sales of existing EOS EF lenses. 

Plus, pros need to be able to rely on their camera bodies without hesitation. The 5D and the 1Dx are battle-proven. Previously, I predicted that the 5D2 and 1Dx2 were the end of line, but it makes sense to me that new versions will help keep the pros competitive with Nikon and Sony while maintaining confidence in their gear. The EOS R bodies will need some time to earn their stripes on the battlefield.

The sad note is that the likelihood of a new EF 50's and an EF 24-70 f2.8L IS is dwindling rapidly -- or maybe gone altogether.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 14, 2019)

slclick said:


> I personally use a wrist strap combined with a BR Cross Shot together 90% of the time. The wrist strap is always there, whether I need it or not. I can't imagine taking it off to use a sling or neck strap. Another reason to love the Magpul QD system. I used Neuro's style of the swivel and 1" Arca clamp but found it too bulky, the QD attachment is svelte.
> View attachment 183486


Ahhhhh.... Magpul. My favorite gear maker. Have lots of it.


----------



## unfocused (Mar 14, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Batting one out of a thousand does not make you a MVP.


One out of a thousand is generous. The "one" that Harry is talking credit for was actually by a designated hitter (Northlight) and all he did was re-post it.


----------



## dilbert (Mar 14, 2019)

docsmith said:


> 1D's are dependable workhorses and have been for decades.



How many decade*s* exactly?

Let me introduce you to the 1DX Mark III, the new EOS 1V.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 14, 2019)

unfocused said:


> One out of a thousand is generous. The "one" that Harry is talking credit for was actually by a designated hitter (Northlight) and all he did was re-post it.



---

Technically, I got the "rumour" first from various European electronic engineering websites in the Netherlands and Germany AND THEN I found the actual documents on Northlight Imaging UK's Website AND THEN brought the Canon C700x docs to the attention of North America (I live there!). It looked like at the time that NO ONE had ever seen or heard of the docs OTHER THAN at Northlight, so you could say that I was one of the first to bring larger attention to what I PERSONALLY BELIEVE were "pre-press draft documents" created originally in Singapore by Canon for the English-speaking world markets. These docs outline a C700x camera which came to be very similar to the actual C700 camera released a year later or so. The specs were almost identical but the form-factor was significantly different.

In fact, I NOW BELIEVE that those "leaked" docs contained the true specs of the C700 Cinema Camera BUT imagery of actual prototypes or mockups for the upcoming Canon C300 Mk3 8K cinema camera version which I think will be, at the very least, announced at NAB 2019 this coming April! It seems that Canon is/was working on MULTIPLE Cinema EOS systems at the same time and that they are all minimum 4K, 5.7K and now 8K 60 fps+ Global Shutter cameras.

---

Now, the SPECS I have been espousing as of late are from a VERY DIFFERENT COMPANY NOT NORMALLY KNOWN for high end professional broadcast audio/video equipment! I will hide as to whom or how, but I will declare that I have some VERY SPECIFIC INFORMATION not normally known to the general public BUT seems to be tacitly acknowledged within certain electronics engineering circles.

I will say that the NEW GEAR is a VERY SIGNIFICANT ADVANCE in terms of COMBINED Stills/Video capability AND has medium format GLOBAL SHUTTER image sensors at 50.3 megapixel stills and DCI 8K video resolutions. A series of smartphones with the largest GLOBAL SHUTTER single image sensors ever put on smartphones are ALSO being introduced at the same time! ALL these devices and their requisite accessories will be sold at price points and with built-in feature sets that will make it VERY DIFFICULT for Canon and other mainstream Audio/Video manufacturers to compete!

I expect that by late September/Early October 2019, that the world is going to be VERY VERY SURPRISED at what is coming out from waaaaay out of left-field! In my opinion, THESE SYSTEMS ARE ALL HOME RUNS! From a pure feature-set and technical specifications viewpoint AND a pure base image quality viewpoint, I cannot see Canon (and others!) being ABLE TO MATCH what is coming out at these new price points!

.
These ARE GAME-CHANGERS !!!! Of that, I see without ANY doubt whatsoever!
.
I am just very frustrated though as to the specific TIMING of these announcements and sales dates!
.
REMEMBER! You heard it HERE FIRST !!!!!


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 14, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Somebody drinking such a cheap and disgusting Cognac imitation like Asbach Uralt  urgently needs professional help!
> This stuff is usually drunk in Germany by drop-outs, age over 80....



it's $45 a bottle for Abach Uralt here and $150+ a bottle for the Cognacs, To me I usually drink the Asbach Uralt brandy straight over ice OR add it into my espresso-style coffees AND I marinate my T-Bone steaks in it overnight before I put them on the gas BBQ !!! Tastes GREAT !!!! and is a heck of a lot CHEAPER than French Cognac!

---

It's a FAVOURITE straight drink and coffee/tea additive in southern Germany (i.e. Bavaria) so don't insult the locals with your comment!
.


----------



## NeverPlayMonopoly (Mar 14, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Canon is DOOOOOOOMED !!!!! I tell you! Doooooooooooooooomed !!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> The CRUEL NATURE of this is something I cannot speak about as of yet.... but I can tell that a NEW company now has 100 reasons compared to Canon's 93! Guess what Canon! Sometimes the 1000 pound Gorilla SMACKS EVERYONE and TRULY -- TRULY --- demonstrates with monstrous proof that he IS King of the Beasts!
> 
> ...


Came here for this


----------



## stevelee (Mar 15, 2019)

Since I’ve never had a camera with a joystick to move focus points around, I wonder about the following: In the time you move the focus point around with a joystick, couldn’t you just focus manually?


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 15, 2019)

Yes if you move the selected point across several of the available points, but the real advantage is that it will then maintain and track focus which is very unreliable with modern viewfinders and minimal focus throw.. That is why I have only cross type AF points selectable (they are much more precise) and I have scroll through so going from extreme left to right is one move not half a dozen.


stevelee said:


> Since I’ve never had a camera with a joystick to move focus points around, I wonder about the following: In the time you move the focus point around with a joystick, couldn’t you just focus manually?


----------



## Jack Douglas (Mar 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Yes if you move the selected point across several of the available points, but the real advantage is that it will then maintain and track focus which is very unreliable with modern viewfinders and minimal focus throw.. That is why I have only cross type AF points selectable (they are much more precise) and I have scroll through so going from extreme left to right is one move not half a dozen.



After playing with the R for a short time I can see how the control ring can be advantageous. I have it for manual shooting on ISO but thought how handy it could be for one of the AF point movements. I have yet to become a fan of the thumb on the 1DX2 joystick. And when I'm top centre and need to move far left it hangs up on the edge of top centre and requires you to move it down and then left. Surely Canon knows if you're pressing to go left that that's what you want to happen. Having the whole AF area is sure nice with the R.

Jack


----------



## ethanz (Mar 15, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> After playing with the R for a short time I can see how the control ring can be advantageous. I have it for manual shooting on ISO but thought how handy it could be for one of the AF point movements. I have yet to become a fan of the thumb on the 1DX2 joystick. And when I'm top centre and need to move far left it hangs up on the edge of top centre and requires you to move it down and then left. Surely Canon knows if you're pressing to go left that that's what you want to happen. Having the whole AF area is sure nice with the R.
> 
> Jack



I've never gotten used to using the joystick for moving the af point on 1dx either.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 15, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> After playing with the R for a short time I can see how the control ring can be advantageous. I have it for manual shooting on ISO but thought how handy it could be for one of the AF point movements. I have yet to become a fan of the thumb on the 1DX2 joystick. And when I'm top centre and need to move far left it hangs up on the edge of top centre and requires you to move it down and then left. Surely Canon knows if you're pressing to go left that that's what you want to happen. Having the whole AF area is sure nice with the R.
> 
> Jack


My favorite setting on the older 45 point AF 1 series cameras was 9 or 15 points that was selected in a rotation pattern via the rear thumb wheel, very fast and efficient, much quicker than the single joystick especially in portrait mode. And faster than the stepping from top/bottom to middle rows now.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Mar 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> My favorite setting on the older 45 point AF 1 series cameras was 9 or 15 points that was selected in a rotation pattern via the rear thumb wheel, very fast and efficient, much quicker than the single joystick especially in portrait mode. And faster than the stepping from top/bottom to middle rows now.



OK, imagine that operation on the control wheel of the lens; the AF point would zip around in a blink. So how can we get Canon to listen?

Jack


----------



## degos (Mar 15, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Many of my companions carried over 120 lbs of gear for that same distance! Humans are POWERFUL creatures well adapted for long distance on-ground travel and CAN EASILY take a lot of punishment if well-trained.



Repeated army research around the World has found the maximum sustainable load for an infantryman on the march to be about 20kg / 45lbs. Fit soldiers, well-trained and disciplined. A bunch of untrained civvies can manage about half that.

Beyond that point the energy expended to carry additional weight exceeds the benefits of the load.

If your team members were carrying 120lb then something went very badly wrong in planning and I'd stay well away from that group in the future. The British Marines and Para ended-up individually carrying that weight across the Falkland Islands because their helicopter support was sunk by Exocets. They suffered a lot of injuries as a result particularly on rough terrain masked by grass.


----------



## Del Paso (Mar 15, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> it's $45 a bottle for Abach Uralt here and $150+ a bottle for the Cognacs, To me I usually drink the Asbach Uralt brandy straight over ice OR add it into my espresso-style coffees AND I marinate my T-Bone steaks in it overnight before I put them on the gas BBQ !!! Tastes GREAT !!!! and is a heck of a lot CHEAPER than French Cognac!
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


Guess you are speaking of some eighty year old recluse living in a dark corner of the Black Forest, sorry, but nobody in Germany drinks that booze anymore...
Sad for the t-bones and the espresso, they deserve better!


----------



## RGF (Mar 15, 2019)

like toi see a Pro R body sooner than later


----------



## Kit. (Mar 15, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> It's a FAVOURITE straight drink and coffee/tea additive in southern Germany (i.e. Bavaria) so don't insult the locals with your comment!


Living in Munich for 3 years, never heard about its existence.

Will probably never hear about it again.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 15, 2019)

degos said:


> Repeated army research around the World has found the maximum sustainable load for an infantryman on the march to be about 20kg / 45lbs. Fit soldiers, well-trained and disciplined. A bunch of untrained civvies can manage about half that.
> 
> Beyond that point the energy expended to carry additional weight exceeds the benefits of the load.
> 
> If your team members were carrying 120lb then something went very badly wrong in planning and I'd stay well away from that group in the future. The British Marines and Para ended-up individually carrying that weight across the Falkland Islands because their helicopter support was sunk by Exocets. They suffered a lot of injuries as a result particularly on rough terrain masked by grass.


As a fit hiker, over6 feet tall and strong, I can handle 90 pounds portaging a canoe and pack for about two kilometres, and at the end I am very happy to put it down! When backpacking the limit drops to 30 pounds. Anything more is poor planning.

At work, they made a testing backpack that weighed 80 pounds. It injured people.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 15, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Nope! No Helicopter at the time. But it was an on-ground assignment and old Sony BV-series SP/DigiBeta cameras are DAMN HEAVY and at the time used NiCad which accounted for most of the weight. And sand doesn't take human footsteps well which exhausts you after a while AND it's HOT in the desert! 35+ C! -- The amount of water you have to carry is astounding but even 75+ LBS (30+ KG) is quite doable for 20 miles (30 km) by larger fitter males (i'm 6'1" and 250 lbs). Many of my companions carried over 120 lbs of gear for that same distance! Humans are POWERFUL creatures well adapted for long distance on-ground travel and CAN EASILY take a lot of punishment if well-trained.


[sarcasm]Your knowledge of cameras is only exceeded by your knowledge of hiking.[/sarcasm]

Why don’t you just give up with your stream of bullshit claims and go away? You have become the mosquito of CR.....


----------



## Mikehit (Mar 15, 2019)

degos said:


> Repeated army research around the World has found the maximum sustainable load for an infantryman on the march to be about 20kg / 45lbs. Fit soldiers, well-trained and disciplined. A bunch of untrained civvies can manage about half that.
> 
> Beyond that point the energy expended to carry additional weight exceeds the benefits of the load.
> 
> If your team members were carrying 120lb then something went very badly wrong in planning and I'd stay well away from that group in the future. The British Marines and Para ended-up individually carrying that weight across the Falkland Islands because their helicopter support was sunk by Exocets. They suffered a lot of injuries as a result particularly on rough terrain masked by grass.



Problem I can see there is you have not only backpack with survival essentials (clothes, water, food) but also weaponry, ammunition and body armour.
Despite commonsense limits to human endurance, the problems do persist out of practicality








The Overweight Infantryman - Modern War Institute


The equipment ground forces carry into combat has grown steadily heavier in recent decades. Reducing this burden could have a real impact on combat effectiveness. But how can the military do so?




mwi.usma.edu





so I can imagine they still train for those loads.

From the comments underneath: "1995 paratrooper to Normandy vet “When you jumped into Normandy, you were carrying 100 pounds of low-tech, heavy equipment. When I jump today I carry 100 pounds of high-tech, light equipment.”


----------



## jedy (Mar 15, 2019)

Canon's Pro EOS R body (when it arrives) will most likely be a 5D IV equivalent upgrade. Due to the specific needs of professional photographers, the 1D series will surely be the last DSLR to get a mirrorless equivalent. I imagine the 6D series, followed at some point by the 5D series will be discontinued in that order. We'd need a fair few more RF lenses before that happens, perhaps even the non-L lenses. So far, there'd be little advantage to having a 1D mirrorless. What with the lack of a number of RF lenses (yes RF is still quite new), especially telephoto plus a mirrorless design not having significant advantages for a camera of the 1D series size.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 15, 2019)

degos said:


> Repeated army research around the World has found the maximum sustainable load for an infantryman on the march to be about 20kg / 45lbs. Fit soldiers, well-trained and disciplined. A bunch of untrained civvies can manage about half that.
> 
> Beyond that point the energy expended to carry additional weight exceeds the benefits of the load.
> 
> If your team members were carrying 120lb then something went very badly wrong in planning and I'd stay well away from that group in the future. The British Marines and Para ended-up individually carrying that weight across the Falkland Islands because their helicopter support was sunk by Exocets. They suffered a lot of injuries as a result particularly on rough terrain masked by grass.



---

120 lbs is a NORMAL carrying pack! North Americans tend to be MUCH LARGER than Europeans! EVERYONE in our group was 6+ and 220 to 250 lbs and it CAN and DEFINITELY WAS done at 20 clicks (30 km) a day for weeks straight! Nowadays, of course, the packs get all put into/tied to a light desert tactical vehicle and "Bob's Your Uncle", it arrives at your next checkpoint and all you have to carry is a 25 lbs water and rations daypack, and your M4 and mags!

Even on normal multi-day hikes here (200 km and more!) in the ultra rugged coastal mountains of British Columbia, I'm carrying a 105 litre mountaineering pack at around 90 lbs and many in our group are ALSO doing the same thing. Humans are DESIGNED for this! When I was younger I could carry even more. At the time, a lightweight composite polymer frame and webbing was just coming out to distribute and balance the load to the hips and back so it didn't FEEL like 120 lbs!

Humans can EASILY do 20 to 30 km a day with heavy loads! We are DESIGNED for this! This was NORMAL OPS for weeks straight!
.
AND the photo below is outside my back door taken a few weeks ago before the recent larger February mountain snowfalls hit us!

Climb THOSE with a 90 lbs pack into the areas on the OTHER SIDE of those background mountains a mere 15 minutes drive away!
.
These aren't the highlands of Scotland. The Coastal British Columbia mountains are SERIOUS back-country mountains ranging from 1500+ ft dayhikers (i.e. Stawamus Chief) up to 13,000 feet (Mt. Waddington) so we are talking SERIOUS mountaineering territory here requiring professional gear and training!

Even Stawamus Chief in Squamish BC is a bit of hike!
.


https://warriorpublications.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/stawamus-chief-mountain-1.jpg


.
Mt Waddington BC:


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3742/11968007024_e71a0d8046_c.jpg


.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 15, 2019)

Oh Harry.

A ‘click’ is a kilometer universally, why did you convert 20 clicks to 30Km? It kinda proves you are just talking nonsense.

Also, whilst I agree many American men may well weigh over 200lbs generally that is because their diet has been sabotaged for decades and that isn’t lean muscle, heck it isn’t even muscle! The vast majority of Americans I see couldn’t lift 100lbs let alone hike with it, that is why most houses don’t have stairs and all apartments have elevators!


----------



## 3kramd5 (Mar 15, 2019)

Packing one’s ruck is a science. Many never learn to do it properly. Ounces count. If you won’t need it, don’t bring it.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Oh Harry.
> 
> A ‘click’ is a kilometer universally, why did you convert 20 clicks to 30Km? It kinda proves you are just talking nonsense.
> 
> Also, whilst I agree many American men may well weigh over 200lbs generally that is because their diet has been sabotaged for decades and that isn’t lean muscle, heck it isn’t even muscle! The vast majority of Americans I see couldn’t lift 100lbs let alone hike with it, that is why most houses don’t have stairs and all apartments have elevators!


Harry, The last multi-day hike I was on (5 days) was the backcountry traverse in Gros Morne Newfoundland. I had the biggest and heaviest pack because I was lugging camera gear. I had a 65L pack and it weighed 18Kilos (about 40 pounds). 

You sir, are spouting gibberish that any hiker would laugh at. Ok, you have a picture of hills taken from a road..… Let's see one of you somewhere you had to work to get to.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 15, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> [sarcasm]Your knowledge of cameras is only exceeded by your knowledge of hiking.[/sarcasm]
> 
> Why don’t you just give up with your stream of bullshit claims and go away? You have become the mosquito of CR.....


The cams he's talking about were out in the early to mid 1970s. Harry may be a very lonely old guy and needs friends. He's older than I, that's for sure. I'd never even touched a cat until late 1981. Wonderful Christmas present from my girlfriend at the time. Quite unexpected... getting a pet.


----------



## QuisUtDeus (Mar 15, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> it CAN and DEFINITELY WAS done at 20 clicks (30 km) a day for weeks straight!



What was their foot care regimen?


----------



## bluediablo (Mar 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Oh Harry.
> 
> A ‘click’ is a kilometer universally, why did you convert 20 clicks to 30Km? It kinda proves you are just talking nonsense.
> 
> Also, whilst I agree many American men may well weigh over 200lbs generally that is because their diet has been sabotaged for decades and that isn’t lean muscle, heck it isn’t even muscle! The vast majority of Americans I see couldn’t lift 100lbs let alone hike with it, that is why most houses don’t have stairs and all apartments have elevators!


I get what you are saying, but you are generalizing, we are not all overweight or weak. ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) requires elevators in apartment buildings and there are quite a few houses (millions) with stairs that fit people run up and down. Here in California we like single story homes that open to the yard. We all could work more on our diet and be nicer to one another concerning cameras and politics. Harrys an ass.


----------



## JBSF (Mar 15, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Harry, The last multi-day hike I was on (5 days) was the backcountry traverse in Gros Morne Newfoundland. I had the biggest and heaviest pack because I was lugging camera gear. I had a 65L pack and it weighed 18Kilos (about 40 pounds).
> 
> You sir, are spouting gibberish that any hiker would laugh at. Ok, you have a picture of hills taken from a road..… Let's see one of you somewhere you had to work to get to.
> 
> View attachment 183500




Is that where you go to find cats to photograph?


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 16, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Living in Munich for 3 years, never heard about its existence.
> 
> Will probably never hear about it again.



---

Then you have TRULY NOT BEEN to or enjoyed Bavaria UNTIL you've had Asbach Uralt straight up, on ice or added to hot tea and coffee!

.
My relatives who live near Nuremberg ALWAYS have bottles on hand for their own and guests! Asbach Uralt German Brandy is a popular tipple for locals (i.e. Bavarians)!


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Oh Harry.
> 
> A ‘click’ is a kilometer universally, why did you convert 20 clicks to 30Km? It kinda proves you are just talking nonsense.
> 
> Also, whilst I agree many American men may well weigh over 200lbs generally that is because their diet has been sabotaged for decades and that isn’t lean muscle, heck it isn’t even muscle! The vast majority of Americans I see couldn’t lift 100lbs let alone hike with it, that is why most houses don’t have stairs and all apartments have elevators!



A "click" is UNIVERSALLY equal ONE MILE = 1600 metres here in North America!

ONE MILE !!! = One Click! 

While I live in Canada where the Metric System is predominant, I'm trained in Imperial measures, ergo, ONE MILE = ONE CLICK!

Plus it's an age-related thing. Euro Millennials HAVE NO CLUE what Miles and Gallons even are!
.
AND have you EVER even TRIED hiking here In BC? I don't see many 5'5" hikers in my group! They're ALL 220 to 250 lbs at 6+ and we ALL carry the 105 litre mountaineering packs! Mine weighs in at 90 lbs (40 kg) when I go out! This isn't the Cairngorms! This is SERIOUS mountaineering country! 15 minutes out of Vancouver is YOU DIE IF YOU'RE NOT PREPARED backwoods country!

My original group did 20 MILES (30 km) PER DAY for WEEKS straight in a HOT desert environment! It's NOT that hard! Even these days, we do multi-day hikes at between 10 to 20 miles (16 km to 30 km) PER DAY depending upon the weather! It's a twelve hour day over a 4-day long weekend but that's what it TAKES to hike, film and partake the coastal BC area! Water, multiple rest breaks, lots of protein bars and MRE's is what you use to get through it!

AND i'm not even that lean any more! I'm well fed! BUT the training is STILL THERE and 20 clicks (MILES!) is actually STILL PRETTY EASY to do! Humans are DESIGNED for long-distance travel even WITH HEAVY LOADS! We do it! You can too!
.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 16, 2019)

So.... 15 minutes from Vancouver and you die? Can't you order pizza from the Firewood Café and get it delivered?


----------



## Kit. (Mar 16, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Then you have TRULY NOT BEEN to or enjoyed Bavaria UNTIL you've had Asbach Uralt straight up, on ice or added to hot tea and coffee!


Bavaria? Tea? "Enjoying" tea in Bavaria? You have definitely never drunk good tea.

And why would you enjoy Bavaria with some obscure drink from another _Land_?

When you come to Bavaria, enjoy local beer. Augustiner is a staple (but still very good) lager; if you are into wheat beer, Weihenstephaner is absolutely the best one (and produced by arguably the oldest existing brewery in the world), but might be hard to find far away from Munich.

And no, what you buy in six-packs on your side of the pond is not beer. Been there, done that, thank you very much.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 16, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Harry, The last multi-day hike I was on (5 days) was the backcountry traverse in Gros Morne Newfoundland. I had the biggest and heaviest pack because I was lugging camera gear. I had a 65L pack and it weighed 18Kilos (about 40 pounds).
> 
> You sir, are spouting gibberish that any hiker would laugh at. Ok, you have a picture of hills taken from a road..… Let's see one of you somewhere you had to work to get to.
> 
> View attachment 183500




We do THIS TERRAIN (New Hazelton BC in Winter) !!! I took that photo when we started out!

We made it up around 2/3rds of the way up the left-side ridge but had to turn back due to a team member injury. I think I still have VIDEO footage of that climb. It's serious ice and snow climbing territory in New Hazelton.

This is our winter expedition gear so you understand just how much you actually REQUIRE in such terrian:
Osprey Xenith 113L XL version of the Expedition Backpack:





Osprey Xenith 105L Backpack - Unisex | MEC


Xenith 105L Backpack: With suspension designed to handle large loads, the Xenith 105 carries everything you need to leave civilization behind for a week, a month or even longer. The hipb




www.mec.ca





La Sportiva Nepal Evo Gore-Tex Mountaineering Boots:








La Sportiva Nepal Evo Gore-Tex Mountaineering Boots - Men's | MEC


Nepal Evo Gore-Tex Mountaineering Boots: Lightweight and versatile brutes, built to manage all-mountain terrain and steep ice with equal aplomb. The GORE-TEX® lining makes these boots warmer and provides reliabl




www.mec.ca





Petzl Lynx Leverlock Universel Crampons:





Petzl Lynx Leverlock Universal Crampons | MEC


Lynx Leverlock Universel Crampons: Modular crampons for stepping up to steep ice and mixed lines. Swappable front points can be configured as dual or mono-point, long or short, at set wi




www.mec.ca





Expedition 8000 jacket:
Special orders were needed for 2xl/3xl wearers like me!





Rab Expedition 8000 Jacket - Unisex | MEC


Expedition 8000 Jacket: A specialist's piece from Rab, who set the benchmark for high-altitude gear. The Expedition 8000 Jacket is what you want for climbing Everest or Denali, blazing n




www.mec.ca









Rab® Expedition Stockists - Rab® CA







rab.equipment





MEC Synergy GORE-TEX Pants:








MEC Synergy Gore-Tex Pants - Men's


Synergy Gore-Tex Pants: All-mountain hard shell pants with waterproof-breathable versatility for experience-hungry skiers. Breathable 3-layer fabric makes these the choice for backcountry days t




www.mec.ca





Rab Latok Summit 2-Person 4-Season Tent:





Rab Latok Summit 2-Person 4-Season Tent | MEC


Latok Summit 2-Person 4-Season Tent: A single wall shelter that's sturdy enough for summit bids and Arctic expeditions, and can stand up to shrieking winds. Single wall construction make




www.mec.ca





Getac X500 Expedition Laptop:








Getac X500 - All Options and Configurations Build yours Here!


Getac X500 - All Options and Configurations Build yours Here!




toughruggedlaptops.com





Poseiden Rugged Portable Battery packs:





Poseidon Pro | Dark Energy


Like the Original but on steroids. Ultra-rugged 10,200 mAh portable charger and flashlight built to handle anything. Poseidon Pro is IP68 waterproof (fully submersible) and surpasses military drop-testing standards. With a charging port capable of 2.4 amp output and an input/output USB-C Port...




home.darkenergy.com





Cat S61 Rugged Smartphones:


Amazon.ca



Rugged Satellite Emergency Communications and GPS Mapping System:








Garmin inReach Explorer+ Satellite Communicator and GPS


Explore anywhere. Communicate everywhere.




www.sportchek.ca





I have other photos with team members in a group in BOTH winter and summer climbs but that is the sort of terrain we typically do.

In summer, it would be Upper Pitt Lake BC from the log boom in the lower right hand corner and hike up to the far upper right snow-capped peaks you see in the link below, so it's pretty rough terrain. That ice field in the upper right corner is our normal target.

See aerial photo:


https://www.waterfrontwest.com/media/com_iproperty/pictures/Photo02572a404e5f97e.jpg



Of course, in summer we use much lighter hiking gear but still carry all the laptop and comms gear because that is NORMAL for us to do! Again, total carry weight is easily into 90+ lbs for most of us! 

.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Mar 16, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> A "click" is UNIVERSALLY equal ONE MILE = 1600 metres here in North America!



I don’t think universally means what you think it means.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 16, 2019)

Harry, in 40 years of back country travel I have yet to see a single person with 100 pound load in their pack You are either the most inexperienced person that I have ever run into or you are a liar and this is just one more pile of bullshit that you have made up on something that you know nothing about


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## HarryFilm (Mar 16, 2019)

QuisUtDeus said:


> What was their foot care regimen?



---

A sticky spray-on silicone-rubber-like material similar to caulking was used to cover the entire foot that peeled off at the end of every day yet was porous to sweat. It "cured" in less than three minutes when exposed to air and prevented the blisters and rub-off you typically get on the heels and forward underpart and sides of the foot. They had polypropylene socks in those days to wick away the moisture that did soak through. It was a surprisingly effective measure and I barely had any rub-off or blisters. I haven't seen it for years now BUT these days modern roll-on/spread-on footcare products such as "HikeGoo" (look it up!) work great! In a pinch, you can use duck tape but it will HURT pulling it off at the end of the day and can get saturated with sweat in an hour or two, making it slip off, so you have to re-apply it by taking your boots off which is problematic if your feet are prone to swelling during LOOONG hikes!


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 16, 2019)

I think Canon must be seriously lacking if this is all we get to discuss in a 1DX3 thread! Harry is worse than a mosquito since they don't usually generate pages of feedback.

Jack


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 16, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> I don’t think universally means what you think it means.


INCONCEIVABLE!


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 16, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Harry, in 40 years of back country travel I have yet to see a single person with 100 pound load in their pack You are either the most inexperienced person that I have ever run into or you are a liar and this is just one more pile of bullshit that you have made up on something that you know nothing about



---

Beg to differ on that! Our local group does it every other week. My friends do it literally every other day but, of course, they have unusual, specialty jobs! Perhaps you need a refresher on mountaineering and long distance expedition travel! 100 to 120 lbs packs over 30 kms is quite NORMAL in our line of work!
.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 16, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> So.... 15 minutes from Vancouver and you die? Can't you order pizza from the Firewood Café and get it delivered?



---

North Shore Rescue MIGHT get you the pizza AFTER the average unprepared idiot climbs the other side of Grouse Mountain or Cypress Bowl and finds themselves in terrain they have no clue about. 140+ rescue calls in one year shows how DUMB people are when it comes to rugged terrain. The back country just on the other side TRULY is rugged!

Go prepared!


----------



## Kit. (Mar 16, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> This is our winter expedition gear so you understand just how much you actually REQUIRE in such terrian:


Dunno. Here in Bavarian Alps, it would have been a day trip with a city-sized backpack.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 16, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> I think Canon must be seriously lacking if this is all we get to discuss in a 1DX3 thread! Harry is worse than a mosquito since they don't usually generate pages of feedback.
> 
> Jack



---

OK THEN! How about talking about an XXL version of the Canon 1Dx Mk4 with 6144 pixel by 4096 3:2 aspect ratio 70mm Sensor (25.1 Megapixels!) with the 11.3 micron sensor sites shooting 14-bits per colour channel that have the INCREDIBLY sensitive ISO 819200 setting for the ULTIMATE Sony A7S2 successor! It's 30 fps Burst Rate and 60 FPS full-sensor-sampled DCI 4K video and 120 fps 2K/HD video would be the ULTIMATE ...... GIMME GIMME GIMME a camera after midnight .... monster machine!

How about THAT camera Canon! CAN YOU DOOOOOOO IT ??? !!!!!

Or are you going to just stand by and let Apple eat your lunch in a few months ???
.
Do they Speak ENGLISH IN WHAT? OK! So you KNOW what I'm sayin?

So....What Does Mr. Apple Look Like? Does he Look like a B*&^ ????
.


----------



## enottingham (Mar 16, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


At least throw a bone to us current 1DXMkII owners before dumping it and give us a C-Log update!


----------



## 3kramd5 (Mar 16, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ...would be the ULTIMATE...



And therefore would never come to market.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 16, 2019)

bluediablo said:


> I get what you are saying, but you are generalizing, we are not all overweight or weak. ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) requires elevators in apartment buildings and there are quite a few houses (millions) with stairs that fit people run up and down. Here in California we like single story homes that open to the yard. We all could work more on our diet and be nicer to one another concerning cameras and politics. Harrys an ass.


The obesity rate in the USA, not just over weight but clinically obese (BMI >30), is nearing 40%. CDC figures put the average adult nearly 30lbs heavier than they were in the ‘50’s.

By numbers the USA has far and away the largest number of obese and overweight people in the world. Of course my comment was a generalization, it’s almost impossible to make any comment that isn’t, but the numbers do support that generalization. Having said that there are a lot of fit, healthy and active people in the USA, there needs to be, they are going to be the ones supporting the next generation of people with obesity related health issues, the general population might have turned away from smoking but unfortunately they were weaned onto highly processed foods cooked unhealthily. 

I agree with your final comment too.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> The obesity rate in the USA, not just over weight but clinically obese (BMI >30), is nearing 40%. CDC figures put the average adult nearly 30lbs heavier than they were in the ‘50’s.
> 
> By numbers the USA has far and away the largest number of obese and overweight people in the world. Of course my comment was a generalization, it’s almost impossible to make any comment that isn’t, but the numbers do support that generalization. Having said that there are a lot of fit, healthy and active people in the USA, there needs to be, they are going to be the ones supporting the next generation of people with obesity related health issues, the general population might have turned away from smoking but unfortunately they were weaned onto highly processed foods cooked unhealthily.
> 
> I agree with your final comment too.


BMI is a terrible scale. It is a square scale while the relationship of weight to height is a cubic function. Therefore, tall people have an artificially high BMI and short people have it artificially low. It also does not differentiate between fat and muscle so if you take two people of the same height and weight, where one is heavily muscled and the other has rolls of fat, they will get the same result. For me personally, my ideal weight is 105 kilos (ribs are showing) yet I would have a BMI of 30.4, which qualifies as obese, yet I can take a full lung of air and quickly sink to the bottom of a pool.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 16, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> BMI is a terrible scale. It is a square scale while the relationship of weight to height is a cubic function. Therefore, tall people have an artificially high BMI and short people have it artificially low. It also does not differentiate between fat and muscle so if you take two people of the same height and weight, where one is heavily muscled and the other has rolls of fat, they will get the same result. For me personally, my ideal weight is 105 kilos (ribs are showing) yet I would have a BMI of 30.4, which qualifies as obese, yet I can take a full lung of air and quickly sink to the bottom of a pool.


Whilst I don’t disagree that the BMI figure is a weird and flawed calculation if you don’t want to go by that then simply open your eyes in pretty much any location anywhere in the USA!

Again, my comment was a generalization not an all encompassing declaration. I’d also point out, being a very experience SCUBA diver, any 230lb person who can take a breath of air and sink is very much an outlier, the average 230lb diver would need around 15-20 of lead to become neutrally buoyant.


----------



## Kit. (Mar 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Again, my comment was a generalization not an all encompassing declaration. I’d also point out, being a very experience SCUBA diver, any 230lb person who can take a breath of air and sink is very much an outlier, the average 230lb diver would need around 15-20 of lead to become neutrally buoyant.


But isn't that with a wet suit?

(Not being positively buoyant with a full lung of air is strange anyway)


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 16, 2019)

I get people wearing from shorts and a tee shirt through 3-7mm wetsuits to dry suits, again it was another generalization. But yes, a 230lb Caucasian needing zero weight to sink with a lung of air is very much an outlier.


----------



## Del Paso (Mar 16, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> I think Canon must be seriously lacking if this is all we get to discuss in a 1DX3 thread! Harry is worse than a mosquito since they don't usually generate pages of feedback.
> 
> Jack


Harry is an oversize tick, feeding himself on forum blood!


----------



## justaCanonuser (Mar 16, 2019)

miketcool said:


> This is a specific market and they will sell similar numbers. 1DX owners don’t see a price, they see profit. It’s a necessary expense, not an investment or luxury item. If my year continues they way it has been, I’ll be upgrading when it lands without thought.


I agree, it's a pro tool, and the pros I know have other criteria than writing pro or con mirror slapper posts. Check Steve Huff: the "ML guy" returned to use an EOS 1-DX II for mainly video, because Sony cameras ruined too many of his shootings by sensor heating. Such a pro body from Canon or Nikon is designed to deliver, wherever you shoot (except underwater). Amateurs can follow ideologies (or call it better pseudo-religions), but pros have to get results.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Mar 16, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Harry is an oversize tick, feeding himself on forum blood!


In fact, the question is from which place Harry is posting. Maybe they allow him to do that as a therapy and to keep him occupied so he doesn't make trouble. So we all are in the happy position to help him a bit 


Del Paso said:


> Somebody drinking such a cheap and disgusting Cognac imitation like Asbach Uralt  urgently needs professional help!
> This stuff is usually drunk in Germany by drop-outs, age over 80....


I didn't know that Asbach Uralt is still produced! Wow, so Harry feeds himself on the liquid mirror slappers of cheap brandys - that's really mind slapping


----------



## Del Paso (Mar 16, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> In fact, the question is from which place Harry is posting. Maybe they allow him to do that as a therapy and to keep him occupied so he doesn. So we all are in the happy position to help him a bit
> 
> I didn't know that Asbach Uralt is still produced! Wow, so Harry feeds himself on the liquid mirror slappers of cheap brandys - that's really mind slapping


According to Scientific American extreme consumption of Asbach Uralt induces verbal diarrhea and loss of common sense.
PS: Asbach Uralt is produced exclusively for one anonymous customer living in Canada who is ordering huge quantities...


----------



## dcm (Mar 16, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> A "click" is UNIVERSALLY equal ONE MILE = 1600 metres here in North America!
> 
> ONE MILE !!! = One Click!
> 
> While I live in Canada where the Metric System is predominant, I'm trained in Imperial measures, ergo, ONE MILE = ONE CLICK!



A click or klick is one kilometer. This is a simple fact that is easily verifiable. 

This calls into question your other pronouncements.


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## Click (Mar 16, 2019)

Learn How Far a Klick Is in the Military and the Origin of the Term


A klick is a military term used to denote a distance of one kilometer. The origin of the phrase comes from the clicks used when counting distance.




www.thebalancecareers.com




How Far Is a Klick?


----------



## RunAndGun (Mar 16, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> BMI is a terrible scale. It is a square scale while the relationship of weight to height is a cubic function. Therefore, tall people have an artificially high BMI and short people have it artificially low. It also does not differentiate between fat and muscle so if you take two people of the same height and weight, where one is heavily muscled and the other has rolls of fat, they will get the same result. For me personally, my ideal weight is 105 kilos (ribs are showing) yet I would have a BMI of 30.4, which qualifies as obese, yet I can take a full lung of air and quickly sink to the bottom of a pool.



BMI is not only a terrible scale, it’s deceptive and misleading in its connotations and should be outlawed as any type of metric used in health and insurance assessments. Even when I was in great shape back in high school working out and doing cardio five days a week with my body fat at 7%(ribs/obliques easily visible), I was overweight by the BMI scale. I am around professional and college athletes all of the time and most of them would be considered at least overweight and a lot(maybe most)obese by the BMI scale. And we’re talking elite athletes with low to very low body fat, but they are very muscular.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 16, 2019)

RunAndGun said:


> BMI is not only a terrible scale, it’s deceptive and misleading in its connotations and should be outlawed as any type of metric used in health and insurance assessments. Even when I was in great shape back in high school working out and doing cardio five days a week with my body fat at 7%(ribs/obliques easily visible), I was overweight by the BMI scale. I am around professional and college athletes all of the time and most of them would be considered at least overweight and a lot(maybe most)obese by the BMI scale. And we’re talking elite athletes with low to very low body fat, but they are very muscular.


Whilst I am not defending BMI as a metric, I have already agreed it is a poor one, the truth is when you hang out in a group of outliers, sports teams, athletic clubs, gyms etc, that doesn't mean those groups aren't still outliers and are relatively uncommon when compared to the general population.

I know half a dozen people with 1DX MkII's yet owning a 1DX MkII is relatively uncommon, the fact that I know so many doesn't make owning a 1DX MkII more common it makes my personal experience more unusual.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Whilst I am not defending BMI as a metric, I have already agreed it is a poor one, the truth is when you hang out in a group of outliers, sports teams, athletic clubs, gyms etc, that doesn't mean those groups aren't still outliers and are relatively uncommon when compared to the general population.
> 
> I know half a dozen people with 1DX MkII's yet owning a 1DX MkII is relatively uncommon, the fact that I know so many doesn't make owning a 1DX MkII more common it makes my personal experience more unusual.


Yes, we are all in agreement that there are outliers, but the root of the problem is that they are using a square function scale to map to cubic function relationship.


----------



## ethanz (Mar 16, 2019)

Click said:


> Learn How Far a Klick Is in the Military and the Origin of the Term
> 
> 
> A klick is a military term used to denote a distance of one kilometer. The origin of the phrase comes from the clicks used when counting distance.
> ...



Click should be an expert in what a klick click really is!


----------



## brad-man (Mar 16, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Click should be an expert in what a klick click really is!



Just as Harry should be an expert in what an outlier really is...


----------



## Viggo (Mar 16, 2019)

I think this thread went a wee bit OT...


----------



## ethanz (Mar 16, 2019)

Viggo said:


> I think this thread went a wee bit OT...



All because you abandoned your 1dx Viggo.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 16, 2019)

ethanz said:


> All because you abandoned your 1dx Viggo.


What this thread needs are some squirrel pictures taken with a 1DX2, or even better, secret squirrel pictures taken by a 1DX3 in beta testing!


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 16, 2019)

enottingham said:


> At least throw a bone to us current 1DXMkII owners before dumping it and give us a C-Log update!


I’ll be the first to admit that my grading skills aren’t that great, but I’ve given up on the c-log in my 5D Mark IV. I rarely get a final grade I like and the Canon provided LUTs don’t help. I think 8 bit log is a bit of an oxymoron. If anybody else is getting good results with that version of log I’m not hearing much about it. I mainly use the technicolor cinestyle profile which I find grades pretty well on both the 1DX2 and 5D4.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 16, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> I’ll be the first to admit that my grading skills aren’t that great, but I’ve given up on the c-log in my 5D Mark IV. I rarely get a final grade I like and the Canon provided LUTs don’t help. I think 8 bit log is a bit of an oxymoron. If anybody else is getting good results with that version of log I’m not hearing much about it. I mainly use the technicolor cinestyle profile which I find grades pretty well on both the 1DX2 and 5D4.


It's funny, when I looked into video with the 1DX MkII I did all the research, loaded the Technicolor flat profiles and corresponding LUT's and after a lot of time and trouble realized one of the best reasons for using Canon video was the fact that the out of camera colors were pretty darn good, if you start off with the optimal exposure I found all the pushing and pulling simply wasn't worth the time or effort for the minimal differences.

I watched a video by Parker Wallbeck the other day where he did yet another comparison between Sony and Canon [



 And even though on his plus side the Sony out scored the Canon he came to the conclusion that the pros on the Canon side outweighed the pluses on the Sony side for his specific uses. Very pragmatic and intelligent assessment of two cameras he owns and he isn't sponsored by either company. His two biggest pluses for Canon? Out of camera colors and the AF in video.


----------



## Viggo (Mar 16, 2019)

ethanz said:


> All because you abandoned your 1dx Viggo.


Haha, obviously


----------



## Jack Douglas (Mar 16, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Haha, obviously



Hi Viggo,

I'm now sitting with a 1DX2 and an R. Suddenly my wish-list for a 1DX3 has grown. Included would be a full AF spread which a DSLR can't give me, sadly. Silent shooting is another. However, the size of the R makes it extremely uncomfortable for my 400, especially with added extenders.

Clearly, those who crave small bodies, and I think all of us long shooters always knew this, are not using the camera like we do.

I'm thankful it's a smallish body for other use scenarios and it is relatively comfortable but not what I'd call light. I'm afraid I could never give up the 1DX2 with R as the replacement but as an alternate case backup I think it is fine. The AF speed with the 400 DO II is decent as is the AF with 70-200 and extenders. Lots of positives about the camera and lack of joystick can be handled well with its alternate program options.

An R version 1DX could be a killer if they get it right. At the moment I like manual with ISO on the control ring and fail to see any problem with just setting exposure by eye through the viewfinder - that's another big plus. The large AF point is a negative for eye focus on small creatures and I just cant live without exposure linked to the AF point for my style of manual shooting. I don't like the viewfinder when the camera is in motion.

From what I've outlined, for me the R just doesn't tick enough boxes for wildlife etc., but with a 50 1.2 as you tend to shoot I can see that it would.

Jack


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 16, 2019)

If I’m just shooting a couple clips and the lighting is going to be pretty consistent than I just go with whatever style I would uses for JPGs since that’s basically what your shooting with MJPEG. If I’m shooting for a longer project or stock that will include clips with varying light , contrast etc shot over a period of days or months or years I still find it’s worth using a flat profile like cinestyle. 
I’m pretty sure that if Canon thought Log was a benefit when using the 1DX2 they would have either included it at launch or provided an upgrade by now. That MJPEG codec has pluses and minuses and it may be that log doesn’t provide much benefit. Of course, I’m entirely self taught on video and I may just be doing it wrong.


----------



## ethanz (Mar 16, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> If I’m just shooting a couple clips and the lighting is going to be pretty consistent than I just go with whatever style I would uses for JPGs since that’s basically what your shooting with MJPEG. If I’m shooting for a longer project or stock that will include clips with varying light , contrast etc shot over a period of days or months or years I still find it’s worth using a flat profile like cinestyle.
> I’m pretty sure that if Canon thought Log was a benefit when using the 1DX2 they would have either included it at launch or provided an upgrade by now. That MJPEG codec has pluses and minuses and it may be that log doesn’t provide much benefit. Of course, I’m entirely self taught on video and I may just be doing it wrong.



Interesting to note about your experiences with CLog. I've never really seen much need to "grade" (not that I know how to do that) or change the colors too much in my videos PP. I only make minor adjustments to white balance and some vibrance. I guess I'm spoiled by the 1dx2 video.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 16, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Interesting to note about your experiences with CLog. I've never really seen much need to "grade" (not that I know how to do that) or change the colors too much in my videos PP. I only make minor adjustments to white balance and some vibrance. I guess I'm spoiled by the 1dx2 video.


You have to grade log or flat profile footage. Theoretically a LUT can do that for you but I haven’t had much luck with any of the Canon LUTs.
If you use one of the jpeg styles and you're happy with the way it looks than it’s probably not necessary. I could do that but then I'd lose some editing flexibility later.
My videos often blend multiple sources so I have to try to balance everything out to keep things consistent or it changes with every cut and looks awful. I’m sure I’m making it harder on myself than Is probably necessary but that’s just the way I do things.


----------



## QuisUtDeus (Mar 17, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> I don’t think universally means what you think it means.



I have never heard anyone call a mile a "click". Ever.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Mar 17, 2019)

QuisUtDeus said:


> I have never heard anyone call a mile a "click". Ever.


Nor have I. I was referring though to his use of universally to mean regionally.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 17, 2019)

dcm said:


> A click or klick is one kilometer. This is a simple fact that is easily verifiable.
> 
> This calls into question your other pronouncements.



---

In the Military, this is technically true as One Klick is truly around 0.6 Miles (one KM!) but the COLLOQUIAL expression for OLD-than-millennials for many American/Canadian persons is that One Click is One Mile (I use "C" rather than the common "K" within the term expression Click). This is an AGE-related expression! One Click = One Mile! (i.e. I'm driving 200 Clicks = 200 Miles linear distance) Since MANY Millennials and younger-thans, haven't really heard the term "Click" (or Klick!) they really have no clue what it means linear distance-wise. My friends know what it means, my elderly parents and grandparents and THEIR friends know what "Click" means coloquially which is MILES in theirs/ours common language! I have noted this expression even REGIONALLY say between British Columbia, Texas to Ohio to Nova Scotia! If you are older than 45+, a click is a mile in MANY CASES!

In BOTH Canadian Forces and the US Department of Defence in every branch, the Metric system is used. By definition any unofficial colloquial term would be (should be?) referring to linear distance as ONE KM or 1000 metres rather than miles. I should note, I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN discrepencies between younger and older enlisted and officer personnel within US forces specifically! The millennials refer to KM and the 45+ refer to Miles/Feet/Gallons versus the Millennials' KM/Metres/Litres! This has many times caused quite some scares within flight operations in my own experience! This is one reason WHY checklists are always used! For some dumb reason flight levels are still in FEET!


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 17, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Harry is an oversize tick, feeding himself on forum blood!




and this "Tick" has FEASTED MIGHTILY here!

Anyways..... Canon is DOOOOOOOOOOMED I tell you! UTERLY DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED !!!!

Canon is about to be eaten for lunch camera-wise and smartphone-wise!

Their low end is going to be OBLITERATED by 2/3rd inch and one inch sensor equipped smartphones and their high end is going to nearly annihilated by a 56 mm sensor equipped combined Medium Format 8K Video/ 50.3 megapixel stills eco-system!

They can't (and won't!) do anything! All I can do is watch the digital train wreck in slow-motion!
.


----------



## Viggo (Mar 17, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> Hi Viggo,
> 
> I'm now sitting with a 1DX2 and an R. Suddenly my wish-list for a 1DX3 has grown. Included would be a full AF spread which a DSLR can't give me, sadly. Silent shooting is another. However, the size of the R makes it extremely uncomfortable for my 400, especially with added extenders.
> 
> ...


I would agree with that. My subjects are general shooting and kids, often with a strobe, and that is very different from supertele wildlife shooting.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 17, 2019)

Viggo said:


> I would agree with that. My subjects are general shooting and kids, often with a strobe, and that is very different from supertele wildlife shooting.


I am in agreement too. I tried the R.... it is a great camera, but it isn't the one for me. It will take at least the 5D equivalent to get me to jump in. So far, we have seen the bottom of the R line, and we have also seen what Panasonic and Olympus can do with features on their high end mirrorless. I hope Canon follows up with something equivalent. I predict bad times ahead for our bank accounts


----------



## QuisUtDeus (Mar 18, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I am in agreement too. I tried the R.... it is a great camera, but it isn't the one for me. It will take at least the 5D equivalent to get me to jump in. So far, we have seen the bottom of the R line, and we have also seen what Panasonic and Olympus can do with features on their high end mirrorless. I hope Canon follows up with something equivalent. I predict bad times ahead for our bank accounts



Right there with you. The ergonomics were too compromised for the minimal reduction in size, and I really missed the joystick to move the AF point. And hated the touch bar in actual use. And the VF freeze. And the VF and LCD seemed to always be selecting the wrong one to be active.

The crazy thing is, like the girlfriend who's bad for you, I kinda miss it.

I do wish Canon would allow a joystick + tilty-flippy on the same body.


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Mar 18, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I am in agreement too. I tried the R.... it is a great camera, but it isn't the one for me. It will take at least the 5D equivalent to get me to jump in. So far, we have seen the bottom of the R line, and we have also seen what Panasonic and Olympus can do with features on their high end mirrorless. I hope Canon follows up with something equivalent. I predict bad times ahead for our bank accounts



For general purpose shooting, I find the EOS R to clean the 5D mk iii's clock, and basically keep pace with the 5D mk iv, although out-performing that body in dim light like reception areas. So shy of 2 card slots, and a couple more frames per second many don't need, it's a good alternative. But at the same time, waiting is a good alternative too for those who have time to wait. 

I've been enjoying some videos today posted by excellent photographers like Cliff Mautner on Youtube, from years ago like 2010 and 2012. They did some very nice professional photography back then with less than we had available a full year ago. So it got me to thinking that anything else in the future is a luxury more than a need.


----------



## dcm (Mar 18, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> In the Military, this is technically true as One Klick is truly around 0.6 Miles (one KM!) but the COLLOQUIAL expression for OLD-than-millennials for many American/Canadian persons is that One Click is One Mile (I use "C" rather than the common "K" within the term expression Click). This is an AGE-related expression! One Click = One Mile! (i.e. I'm driving 200 Clicks = 200 Miles linear distance) Since MANY Millennials and younger-thans, haven't really heard the term "Click" (or Klick!) they really have no clue what it means linear distance-wise. My friends know what it means, my elderly parents and grandparents and THEIR friends know what "Click" means coloquially which is MILES in theirs/ours common language! I have noted this expression even REGIONALLY say between British Columbia, Texas to Ohio to Nova Scotia! If you are older than 45+, a click is a mile in MANY CASES!
> 
> In BOTH Canadian Forces and the US Department of Defence in every branch, the Metric system is used. By definition any unofficial colloquial term would be (should be?) referring to linear distance as ONE KM or 1000 metres rather than miles. I should note, I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN discrepencies between younger and older enlisted and officer personnel within US forces specifically! The millennials refer to KM and the 45+ refer to Miles/Feet/Gallons versus the Millennials' KM/Metres/Litres! This has many times caused quite some scares within flight operations in my own experience! This is one reason WHY checklists are always used! For some dumb reason flight levels are still in FEET!



Checked with an older officer in the USAF. My father served 1952-1978 as a Navigator and Instructor Navigator. He was introduced to clicks/klicks = kilometers during his training in 1952. And all air operations are done in nautical miles and feet since that is the scale on navigational maps. Guess we live in different worlds. Now back to the original discussion...

I have a 1DX2 and M5. Don't think I'll be in the market to update the 1DX2 anytime soon (mirrorless or otherwise). It does everything I need it to do and more. I can't imagine a 1DX3 will be a huge leap ahead. Still looking for something to fill the gap between my bodies since I gave away my 6D, thinking the next R might be a winner if a 5DS/r replacement.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 18, 2019)

Jack, I think your comments on the R-versus-1dx2 best reflect my own experiences with both those cameras, though I'd add a couple points...

AGREE R CONS: 

AF point is overly large. As a side note, I would very much like Canon to use as a focus point graphic in the viewfinder some sort of shape that actually reflected the true area used for focus, rather than a representative icon that sometimes is quite a bit smaller than actual focusing area. This goes for 1dx2 also.
Metering not tied to focus point used. Another aside: would like this to be applicable on 1dx2 also to modes other than spot focus as well, so even things like center weighted average could be moved around via focus point selection.

AGREE R PROS:

AF Point area coverage is several times better than 1dx2
Quieter shooting

ADDED R CONS:

Frustrated that back screen focus point control can't operate simultaneous to servo focus (this would be a magical combined capacity). As it is now, you need to repeatedly press focus points, rather than drag, and that's not suited to viewfinder use.
Of course, the frame rate on the R is dismal.
There is a lag at times similar to what I experienced with the M5. Seems intermittent, but ruins my confidence in the use of back screen for focus.

MY NEEDS FOR FUTURE R:
I sold my R last Thursday and cancelled my RP pre-order. When they come out with a pro model, will probably come back to it. Requisites include...

At least doubling fps on the R
Adding joystick (or fixing back screen focus implementation)
Tie metering to focus point
Not reducing megapixels to 1dx2 level
Reducing lag incidents
IBIS
Form factor between R and 1dx2 (Think both of those are suboptimal. Need a Goldilocks form factor.)
Adding the RAW cooking Canon does in 1DX2 series. As unpopular as that is to utter out loud, I appreciate its effects. Just did some testing between 5d4 and 1dx2 regarding that, and was surprised how well 20mp comes out versus 30 mp, even when processed to give it an apples-to-apples IQ comparison.






Jack Douglas said:


> Hi Viggo,
> 
> I'm now sitting with a 1DX2 and an R. Suddenly my wish-list for a 1DX3 has grown. Included would be a full AF spread which a DSLR can't give me, sadly. Silent shooting is another. However, the size of the R makes it extremely uncomfortable for my 400, especially with added extenders.
> 
> ...


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## HarryFilm (Mar 19, 2019)

dcm said:


> Checked with an older officer in the USAF. My father served 1952-1978 as a Navigator and Instructor Navigator. He was introduced to clicks/klicks = kilometers during his training in 1952. And all air operations are done in nautical miles and feet since that is the scale on navigational maps. Guess we live in different worlds. Now back to the original discussion...
> 
> I have a 1DX2 and M5. Don't think I'll be in the market to update the 1DX2 anytime soon (mirrorless or otherwise). It does everything I need it to do and more. I can't imagine a 1DX3 will be a huge leap ahead. Still looking for something to fill the gap between my bodies since I gave away my 6D, thinking the next R might be a winner if a 5DS/r replacement.



===

Well! Evidently there seems to be a difference between various experiences in terms of regionality and age. Many contemporaries HERE (in Pacific Northwest region of North America) speak of One Click = One Mile. There may even be town-to-town differences but I as of yet haven't noticed that. Your experiences are obviously different and that's fine. I personally find it weird that Feet, Nautical Miles and Gallons are still used for seagoing and aviation operations when KM, Metres, CM and Litres are far easier to convert and relate to other measurement units.

Again, I have noted FRIGHTENING incidents between older and younger military and commercial flight operations personnel where Gallons/Feet have been mixed up with Litres/Metres. Pick ONE peoples! Use ONLY Imperial or Metric measurements!

.

Anyways NEXT SUBJECT! Canon has 120, 240 and 440 megapixel sensors RIGHT NOW! They just need to be put them into ANY DECENT body such as the XC-15 body-style which would make a GREAT combined video/stills camera! If Canon is going to KEEP being stupid, then that recent layoff announcement at Canon USA headquarters will be happening more and more often as OTHER manufacturers start eating Canon's breakfast, lunch and dinner by making fancy big-sensor smartphones and high-feature-set combined stills and video cameras at attractive prices!
.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 19, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ===
> 
> Well! Evidently there seems to be a difference between various experiences in terms of regionality and age. Many contemporaries HERE (in Pacific Northwest region of North America) speak of One Click = One Mile. There may even be town-to-town differences but I as of yet haven't noticed that.




Your universe is getting less universal with each post


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## dcm (Mar 21, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> Your universe is getting less universal with each post



And getting smaller. We were stationed at Fairchild AFB in Spokane, WA, in the Pacific Nothwest for several years. My folks retired there in 1978 and I go back to visit for a few weeks every year. A few brothers live in Seattle, including one that is an engineer at Boeing. This discussion surprises him too.


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## HarryFilm (Mar 22, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> Your universe is getting less universal with each post



---

I have a much better idea... Why don't you admit that I am utterly Bat S&*^ CRAAAAAAZY and that CanonRumors is my forum for expressing my perturbed musings at a society that is insane, if not outright odious! After that personal admission from you, I will forgive you for your personal transgressions against crazy people everywhere and we can get back to....THE FOLLOWING INCONTROVERTIBLE FACT:

THAT CANON IS DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED !!!!! DOOOOMED I TELL YOU !!!! UTTERLY DOOOOOOOOMED !!!!

P.S. Not only are we introducing a combined 50.3 Megapixel Stills and DCI 8K (8192x4320) 60 fps 4:4:4 GLOBAL SHUTTER video camera with a medium format sensor and two large 2/3rd inch and one-inch image sensor smartphones, we're ALSO introducing the COMPUTER HARDWARE that allows such compression and/or processing IN REAL-TIME of 60 fps DCI 8K video using a 60 GHz Gallium Arsenide-based combined CISC/GPU/DSP superprocessor with FOUR built-in 8192x8192 pixel 4:4:4:4 RGBA/YCbCrA array processors that do hardware accelerated convolution filters (SOBEL, HI/LO-pass, etc) AND general RGBA/YCbCr pixel colour correction/grading and other pixel processing AND it has built-in over 4 Terabytes of ON-CHIP RAM for maximum internal memory processing space.

It is the world's FASTEST consumer-oriented processor at a tested 375 teraFLOPS of CPU horsepower (i.e. tested with various Sieves and Raytracing/3D-XYZ Rendering suites). We do also have a TWO TERAHERTZ Opto-Electronic Server processor which is embedded by the hundreds of thousands into the world's FASTEST supercomputer which quite BLOWS AWAY the DOE's newest Aurora Supercomputer (i.e. 100x+ it's mere ONE ExaFLOPS speed) at a SUSTAINED 119 ExaFLOPS (using 128-bit Fixed/Floating Point and Integer instruction set) running a Whole Brain Emulation system developed by actual Ph.D-degreed Computational Neurobiologists, Neurosurgery MD's and basically 10 of the best neural net programmers IN THE WORLD !!!

AND YES that WBE (Whole Brain Emulation) of neuro-tissue-specific molecular-based Potassium/Sodium/Phosphrous Gating/Switching synthesis is actually super-intelligent (160 IQ and above!) and is working 24/7/365 on designing Virtual Cavity Resonators used in GrASERs (Gravity Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation) which causes high frequency, pulsed EM surface waves to hug the interior of $350 million worth Titanium shell, Osmium-coated CNC machined Cavity resonators, waveguides and reflection gear that allow the confinement, summing and amplification of both naturally occurring and artificially created Gravity Waves which will be directed and used to distort Space-Time in front of a Human-built spacecraft allowing it to Surf and/or be pulled along the given axis of a section of severely compressed space-time so that BILLIONS of light years can be traversed in mere seconds!

SO THERE !!!! That is what happens when you make programmers VERY HAPPY by buying them Bell 429's and Racing-Orange Corvette ZR-1's !!!

---

NOWWWWWWWW !!!!! Is Canon merely ******* or is it REAAAALLLLLLLLY DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

My Aunt just bought an M50 with a basic kit lens! She Likes it Very Much! Just though I'd let you know!

She has three cats and I get to see photos of them in different poses (sleeping, sleeping and sleeping!) EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND !!!!!!!!
.
So what is YOUR STORY?
.
.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Mar 22, 2019)

I don’t have a story. I’m boring.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 22, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> I don’t have a story. I’m boring.


But at least you can tell the difference between reality and the SIMS game that you are playing


----------



## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> ... but Canon know the agencies & photographers have many EF mount lenses and tend not to like adaptors.
> 
> 
> What is not yet apparent in Canon strategy with the EOS R / RF series is the release of high end RF lenses yet lower entry cameras especially in the RP. I see my EOS R as more a replacement for the 6D MKII not the RP which I see as more as full-frame Rebel yet the 35mm f1.8 lens is the only non- L lens and the announced lenses address the holy trinity of L lenses plus the pro 85mm with again only one non L zoom lens. I would be totally surprised if Canon did not launch a Pro EOS R series camera in late 2019 given Sony offering and Nikon with the Z7. Can anyone really see EOS RP owner buying the RF28-70mm f2L or the RF50mm 1.2L in any great numbers? No.



Agencies do not like _cross platform adapters_. The EF to RF adapters are seen more like a teleconverter than a Canon EF to Sony E adapter. Most agencies have never had a problem using extenders/TCs with the longer focal length lenses for which they are designed.

This is not much different than the way Canon introduced the EOS system back in 1987-89. They introduced two entry level camera bodies in early 1987, a couple of low/mid bodies in October 1988, then another entry model in early 1989. During that time they concentrated on lenses, both consumer and "L" grade, and only introduced the pro level EOS-1 in late 1989 after the lenses needed to support it were already in place.

If you stop to think about it, it really makes more sense for true working pros that use a bag full of lenses (as opposed to the spec sheet warriors that just "have" to have the "best" camera and spend all of their money on every single body update while still using their crappy old third party lenses). Lenses last much longer than camera bodies. If they brought out the pro body first, by the time the lens line is fleshed out and the real pros are ready to swap systems, the body would be "obsolete." But the lenses being introduced now will still be considered "phenomenal" a year and one half from now when the pro body comes out.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

amorse said:


> I don't disagree, but I was really just observing that the timing seems off based on the last couple releases of the 1D and 5D series. I'm not suggesting what could or should replace a 5D series body, nor what people want or need. The 1DX ii was released in Feb of 2016, and the 5D IV followed in August of 2016. The 1DX was released in March of 2012, and the 5D III was also released in March 2012. Now we're hearing that the 1DX iii will be released in close proximity to a high-resolution body, with no mention of a 5D V. Maybe it's too early to hear more about a 5D V, but if this schedule was to be kept and the rumour to be true, then we'd expect a 1DXIII, 5DV, and a high resolution R body to be released in close proximity.



The release of each camera in the 1D X series has coincided with the Summer Olympics. For whatever reasons, the 5D Mark III and 5D Mark IV happened to follow those by a few months. Perhaps they were intentionally timed as specifically a 5-series follow-up to the release of a 1D X, or perhaps they just happened to be the next in line non-entry level body of any series in both cases.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Minus holding it in your hands all day long and then your hand starts to ache from the size and weight lol...



That all depends on the size of your hands. Some of us have more fatigue trying to hold a small body with large hands.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> I very much agree with you and its why I believe a pro body (5dmkIV) is coming far sooner than most people are anticipating. I'm guessing fall at the latest. It doesn't make sense otherwise. The rumor road map has been very inaccurate lately until shortly before the actual introduction of new bodies. Its also a key moneymaker for them in a key pro segment and there have been a lot of Sony defections.



The 5D Mark IV was introduced in 2016, wasn't it?



NorskHest said:


> A new 1dxmkii still goes for 5500 a new one, the mkiii will not see a price reduction till probably its third year of its cycle. Once you have gone to the 1D series it’s hard to come back from. The mkiii will have to be pretty good to get people to upgrade from the mkii.



For those who are approaching 400-500K shutter actuations on their 1D X Mark IIs, it won't be a hard sell. I've seen more than a few high mileage 1D X IIs on the used market lately.




Architect1776 said:


> It would be interesting to see how many real pros us 4K in the 1DX MII. Or how many even bother with using it for video at all.
> I suspect that if one is a pro shooting video spending that kind of money you will get a dedicated pro level video camera.
> As I watch sports and news it appears that stills dominate the pro market rather than make short video clips.
> I would say a large majority of those using the 1DX MII use it for stills only and likely would have a hard time shooting a video.



What few staff press photographers I know that are left are expected to deliver both stills and video from most every assignment. Most of them would prefer to only shoot stills most of the time, even though some are rather talented with video.



privatebydesign said:


> My desire for a moving screeen is based on photography wants not video. I’d rather have an M5 style tiliting screen than a 80D style swivel screen. I have found tilting screen to be very useful for low and overhead images, and the concerns about durability are largely unfounded, these screens can be made entirely waterproof at very low cost. And robust enough for even the clumsiest of shooters, a simple lock button would ensure those that do not want them would never be impacted by having one, whilst those that see the functionality of them can compose overhead shots others simply can’t.



Those guys have done it enough that they have the muscle memory and eye to do it without a tilty screen. They get their shots now.

Here's a friend of mine shooting from the hip because he had just pulled down his long lens while the 50+ yard
pass was in the air. I had just finished shooting the band warming up for halftime, when I turned around to get this (it's fairly heavily cropped from a 7D MarK II + 70-200/2.8).




He published four frames from the burst he took with the camera moving between his waist and neck before I grabbed the frame above, including the lead image for the next morning's sports section. Keep in mind this was in pretty crappy high school stadium lighting. What looks like lens flare was made worse by smoke drifting from the concession stand.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Thing is that "real pros" aren't the whole of the market. I'd imagine that enthusiast baby boomers with $$$$ are the biggest part of the market. That said, if I ever got a 1D series it would be for stills only. Same for my 5D series. Same thing if I went R. I know many here complain about Canon's video features, but for me those features mean nothing. I suspect Canon has a handle on how important/unimportant video is to the larger market, which might be why Canon isn't so aggressive with those features.



Then there are the pros that are glad baby boomer wannabes with an expanding waistline and without a tilty screen can't keep up with them:


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## privatebydesign (Mar 23, 2019)

That’s not a particularly fair comparison, one is using a 16-35 at close quarters in reaction to fast moving action, the other a 70-200 clearly working a juxtaposition whilst on the actual court/playing surface for a specific perspective and deliberate framing and is exactly the kind of thing even your friend would appreciate in the same situation, I know I would, and as we all know framing with one is much easier than with the other.

Also your reasoning is specious, just because some owners don’t need something doesn’t mean more owners wouldn’t find that something useful. 4K video, silent shutter, touch screen AF in Live View, customizable control layout, 2 and 10 second shutter delay, focus/drive priority options etc etc. Very few people _need_ these features yet the camera is more capable with them.

What I find a more interesting talking point for your friends image is what his focusing choices were? That is his skill and experience shining through, not his framing with an ultra wide angle lens, most people taking that shot with AF wouldn’t have got the catching player as main focus.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Actually, Canon has been testing exactly that in lesser models for years and years. I don't know that a 1D series will ever have it, but it doesn't seem to be a complex problem at all, to me. Maybe somebody here has had problems on lesser bodies, but I have never read of any. If Canon can design a mirror to go a couple hundred thousand cycles without failing, a screen that moves far less violently (and far less often) wouldn't seem like a problem. When I had my 70D the only time the screen got flipped out was for a specific need. It isn't something constant. Either way, I'd love to see one on a possible 5D mark V.



200,000? More like 400,000 to 500,000 or more on a four year cycle for many of those folks.

I don't doubt that Canon could solve the engineering problem, but they might not be able to weather the marketing problem from a group (actual 1D users with high profiles - e.g. well known sports/action photogs) that is almost unequivocal that they DO NOT WANT a moveable screen on their 1D cameras.



Don Haines said:


> And David Breshears carried an IMAX camera to the top of Mount Everest.



More likely, his sherpas carried it most of the way.




stevelee said:


> Since I’ve never had a camera with a joystick to move focus points around, I wonder about the following: In the time you move the focus point around with a joystick, couldn’t you just focus manually?



There are also several ways you can set up the 1D X Mark II so that a single programmed button (such as one of the two on the front of your camera) can switch back and forth between the currently selected AF point and a default AF point. Very useful for things such as tennis where one can be constantly swapping from left to right. It's all covered on pages 110-114 of the _Canon EOS 1D X Mark II AF Settings Guidebook._


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> That’s not a particularly fair comparison, one is using a 16-35 at close quarters in reaction to fast moving action, the other a 70-200 clearly working a juxtaposition whilst on the actual court/playing surface for a specific perspective and deliberate framing and is exactly the kind of thing even your friend would appreciate in the same situation, I know I would, and as we all know framing with one is much easier than with the other.
> 
> Also your reasoning is specious, just because some owners don’t need something doesn’t mean more owners wouldn’t find that something useful. 4K video, silent shutter, touch screen AF in Live View, customizable control layout, 2 and 10 second shutter delay, focus/drive priority options etc etc. Very few people _need_ these features yet the camera is more capable with them.
> 
> What I find a more interesting talking point for your friends image is what his focusing choices were? That is his skill and experience shining through, not his framing with an ultra wide angle lens, most people taking that shot with AF wouldn’t have got the catching player as main focus.



Wasn't comparing one to the other. That's why they are in separate posts responding to different comments.

The Yoga master was lining up this shot. She might have appreciated a tilty-flippy, but she was also between the seated graduating class on the track behind her and the podium on the field in front of her. She always worked as unobtrusively as possible whenever I saw her shooting events and might have bent low anyway.


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> 200,000? More like 400,000 to 500,000 or more on a four year cycle for many of those folks.
> 
> I don't doubt that Canon could solve the engineering problem, but they might not be able to weather the marketing problem from a group (actual 1D users with high profiles - e.g. well known sports/action photogs) that is almost unequivocal that they DO NOT WANT a moveable screen on their camera.


I am unaware of any market research. Quoting a guy or two is not reliable. One could just as easily quote a person like myself, that would absolutely want one. Well known sports/wildlife shooters are a miniscule representation in the market. In fact, I can't name a single famous sports/wildlife photographer, or wedding photographer for that matter. When it comes down to purchase time, I get what I want. When it comes to design/manufacturing/marketing, Canon will do what Canon believes will sell best at the highest profit... no matter what their sponsored or unsponsored endorsers want.

Anyway,a guy named Scott Kelby shot a college and pro football game. Here's what he had to say about it. "So, they added some touchscreen technology for when you’re shooting video, but the screen on the back isn’t a touchscreen for anything else. You can’t choose menus by touch, or swipe through images, or pinch to zoom with touch, and so on like you’ve been able to do for years now on their old 70D model. I understand not making an articulated screen like the 70D (though that would be fantastic for shots of the coaches shaking hands at the end of the game, or the coin toss, or team huddles during warmups), but I just don’t get not including a full touch screen. I know some high-end pros might make a fuss about a touch-screen not being as durable, but not everybody buying this camera is a high-end pro. I think given a choice, most folks would opt for the touchscreen version."

Unlike Kelby, I do not get not having a fully functional articulated screen.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 23, 2019)

I was going to point out the touch screen introduction as the perfect example of the ‘old pro’s’ being dipshits, and I am one! I didn’t want a touch screen until I got a partial one and then thought why in gods name doesn’t this do everything, the menus would be so much faster with it? Why is my touch screen crippled?

Same with tilting screens, if you don’t think you want it provide a locking pin to stop it moving, but very few people would never use it although it might take longer to grow on some!


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I am unaware of any market research. Quoting a guy or two is not reliable. One could just as easily quote a person like myself, that would absolutely want one. Well known sports/wildlife shooters are a miniscule representation in the market. In fact, I can't name a single famous sports/wildlife photographer, or wedding photographer for that matter. When it comes down to purchase time, I get what I want. When it comes to design/manufacturing/marketing, Canon will do what Canon believes will sell best at the highest profit... no matter what their sponsored or unsponsored endorsers want.
> 
> Anyway,a guy named Scott Kelby shot a college and pro football game. Here's what he had to say about it. "So, they added some touchscreen technology for when you’re shooting video, but the screen on the back isn’t a touchscreen for anything else. You can’t choose menus by touch, or swipe through images, or pinch to zoom with touch, and so on like you’ve been able to do for years now on their old 70D model. I understand not making an articulated screen like the 70D (though that would be fantastic for shots of the coaches shaking hands at the end of the game, or the coin toss, or team huddles during warmups), but I just don’t get not including a full touch screen. I know some high-end pros might make a fuss about a touch-screen not being as durable, but not everybody buying this camera is a high-end pro. I think given a choice, most folks would opt for the touchscreen version."
> 
> Unlike Kelby, I do not get not having a fully functional articulated screen.



The point is not whether it might be useful or not, it is that the most high profile users who are also advisors to Canon's design teams are all on the same side of this one. Or at least none of them are willing to buck the party line and admit they want a tilty-flippy on a 1D camera. Kelby is a Photoshop expert who dabbles in sports, and gets access because of his name. He's also increasingly a YouTuber that seems like he will say anything for clicks. But he's no Neil Leifer or Walter Iooss. And while you may not know who those guys are, almost all of the folks shooting for agencies or who are full-time sports freelancers certainly do.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I was going to point out the touch screen introduction as the perfect example of the ‘old pro’s’ being dipshits, and I am one! I didn’t want a touch screen until I got a partial one and then thought why in gods name doesn’t this do everything, the menus would be so much faster with it? Why is my touch screen crippled?
> 
> Same with tilting screens, if you don’t think you want it provide a locking pin to stop it moving, but very few people would never use it although it might take longer to grow on some!



I'm not making a case for or against whether these things might be useful to some. I'm just pointing out that typical 1D users, particularly the higher profile types of 1D users, don't like change if they think it may make their 1Ds less reliable. They don't see the value of things that might have value to them because they've never used them, and their ability to excel above others using what they are using now is what has put them at the top of the heap.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 23, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> They don't see the value of things that might have value to them because they've never used them



/\ THIS

And the fact that “they think it may make their 1D’s less reliable” is generally an entirely misplaced concern. If Olympus can make a fully underwater-proof swivel screen on a P&S costing a few hundred dollars, and all the manufacturers have many years of experience in making reliable and robust swivel screens, I’m pretty sure Canon could make one for a multi thousand dollar camera.

I know half a dozen 1DX MkII owners and seen countless reviews and comments by owners/users and I have never heard one that doesn’t find the lack of touch screen expansion disappointing, yet how intense was the pushback on that before it was Included?


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## Don Haines (Mar 23, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I was going to point out the touch screen introduction as the perfect example of the ‘old pro’s’ being dipshits, and I am one! I didn’t want a touch screen until I got a partial one and then thought why in gods name doesn’t this do everything, the menus would be so much faster with it? Why is my touch screen crippled?
> 
> Same with tilting screens, if you don’t think you want it provide a locking pin to stop it moving, but very few people would never use it although it might take longer to grow on some!


I have a camera good buttons and joystick, I have another with articulated touchscreen. For some things I prefer one, for others I prefer the other. The best solution (for me) would be both.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 23, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Wasn't comparing one to the other. That's why they are in separate posts responding to different comments.
> 
> The Yoga master was lining up this shot. She might have appreciated a tilty-flippy, but she was also between the seated graduating class on the track behind her and the podium on the field in front of her. She always worked as unobtrusively as possible whenever I saw her shooting events and might have bent low anyway.


And she did an excellent job of getting the uninterrupted sky as an excellent contrasting color and nicely out of focus flowers framing the bottom half of the lecturn . Though I must be honest if I had seen the same framing I’d like to see a portrait orientation with the sky, subject, lecturn and then the flowers to give context by seeing the coat of arms. But she might well have not had the vertical separation of the sky/stadium to do that without making the background too busy.

Certainly her contortions to achieve the very strong blue/yellow color combination shows superb technique.


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> I'm not making a case for or against whether these things might be useful to some. I'm just pointing out that typical 1D users, particularly the higher profile types of 1D users, don't like change if they think it may make their 1Ds less reliable. They don't see the value of things that might have value to them because they've never used them, and their ability to excel above others using what they are using now is what has put them at the top of the heap.



Where's the list of typical 1D users? You are guessing. The guys you list are not "typical". They are a tiny, tiny, tiny group of buyers.
Where do I find anything that says a fully articulated touch screen would make the camera less reliable? Nowhere.
"They don't see the value of things that might have value to them because they've never used them." Now that's true. And those features would not suddenly move them down the totem pole either, would it? No. Then, you say they have never used them? Then why the heck should anyone care about their opinion? I could do a BMW M5 review on youtube. Yet what would be the point. I've never used one. So my opinion would be worthless. Even my perceptions would be worthless. I guess I have got past the age where somebody's name being dropped impresses me.


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## Don Haines (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Where do I find anything that says a fully articulated touch screen would make the camera less reliable? Nowhere.



Quite a while ago, during the period the 60D was current, there was huge forum debate over the fragility of articulated screens, yet there was only one account of damage. At the same time, there were several reports of damage done to 5D2 and 1DX screens that would have been saved if it was an articulated screen in the stored position.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Where's the list of typical 1D users? You are guessing. The guys you list are not "typical". They are a tiny, tiny, tiny group of buyers.
> Where do I find anything that says a fully articulated touch screen would make the camera less reliable? Nowhere.
> "They don't see the value of things that might have value to them because they've never used them." Now that's true. And those features would not suddenly move them down the totem pole either, would it? No. Then, you say they have never used them? Then why the heck should anyone care about their opinion? I could do a BMW M5 review on youtube. Yet what would be the point. I've never used one. So my opinion would be worthless. Even my perceptions would be worthless. I guess I have got past the age where somebody's name being dropped impresses me.



1. It's not about pure numbers, it is about visibility and who influences others the most. The Kardashians are a "tiny, tiny, tiny group" of the 150+ million women in the U.S. But what they wear, how they stand when they are photographed (that ridiculous "chicken wing" pose), and whatever new catchphrase they come up with shows up in every high school, on every college campus, and in many places where large numbers of women under the age of about 35 can be found almost instantly after every episode. 

2. NO ONE HERE IS ARGUING THAT A FULLY ARTICULATED SCREEN WOULD MAKE A CAMERA LESS RELIABLE. I'm merely observing that there is a _perception_ by many in the industry who put their cameras through the torture test day in and day out, including but certainly not limited to those who influence Canon's design decisions, that it would.

In the world of marketing, _perception is reality._ 

3. Sometimes one gets the feeling that when new technology makes it much easier for a newbie to do something that took a lot of practice and patience to learn using the older tools, the old guard wishes the same struggles on the newcomers as what they had to go through. Again, I'm not saying it is correct, I'm just saying that is a _perception._ "In my day we had to walk 20 miles to school in three feet of snow, uphill both ways. And we _LIKED IT_ that way!"


Closely related: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> And she did an excellent job of getting the uninterrupted sky as an excellent contrasting color and nicely out of focus flowers framing the bottom half of the lecturn . Though I must be honest if I had seen the same framing I’d like to see a portrait orientation with the sky, subject, lecturn and then the flowers to give context by seeing the coat of arms. But she might well have not had the vertical separation of the sky/stadium to do that without making the background too busy.
> 
> Certainly her contortions to achieve the very strong blue/yellow color combination shows superb technique.


 
If I remember correctly, I did see her take some in both orientations while she was down there. She must have liked this landscape one better. Either that or the rent-a-copy-editor-service four states away cropped a portrait orientation she submitted to landscape to fit their use later that evening. We did have a brief conversation once about her frustrations with cropping by photographically illiterate editors. The vase the flowers were in, not too far below the edge of the frame, was not the most attractive, either. 

That coat of arms on the podium is the "same old same old" that gets shot at a lot of that school's events throughout the year so she was probably wanting something a bit different. She would likely have needed to back up into the middle of where the several hundred graduates were seated behind her to get an angle with the flowers beneath the coat of arms without standing up. If she had stood up, you're probably correct that the visitor stands, and the light towers of both the stadium, the baseball field behind the stadium, as well as the 4-5 story parking deck across the street from the baseball field next to the six story hospital would have made it into the frame. The newspaper she was working for covers a three county area with a little more than a handful of high schools, but there are only two high schools located in the largest city in that three county area, which is where the newspaper is located. They are also the two largest high schools in the coverage area, so they get the lion's share of attention.


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## stevelee (Mar 24, 2019)

For my taste, the flowers would be less distracting if they were a little more in focus.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 24, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> 2. NO ONE HERE IS ARGUING THAT A FULLY ARTICULATED SCREEN WOULD MAKE A CAMERA LESS RELIABLE.



Because I can’t help myself, I’ll make that argument. Reliability engineering lives in the domain of statistics. The more failable parts of a system, the less reliable it is.

As it affects predicted MTBF, an articulating screen might be on the order of minutes in thousands of hours, but it is a non-zero affect.


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