# The client doesn't like your picture, while you love it



## procentje20 (May 10, 2014)

Not sure if this has been discussed before. But I was wondering if any of you ever had a photo assignment where the client gave you a task, you made a picture to the best of your understanding of the task. Liked it, send it to the customer. And the customer hated it.

I'll start with my example. I was asked to photograph the work of volunteers at a triathlon in my home town. They were overhauling their volunteers website, and wanted good pictures to go with the site. No budget, but I was asked nicely. 

So, I went in, took lots of pictures and figured one in particular captured the whole story of the volunteers. 





Their first reaction. "The volunteers are out of focus" 

Which was exactly the point. The volunteers are there to make the athletes excel. This guy has a drink, because there are volunteers. I still like the picture, they went with some of my other pictures.

I would love you guys to share a similar story.


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## sagittariansrock (May 10, 2014)

First off, I am not a professional but I have taken pictures of events and families on request (of friends, of course).
I never suggest which one out of the final pick is my favorite, but I notice often theirs is something else. And while I have never commented on it, it does disappoint me.
So yes, I can empathize with your experience. 
However, liking is often subjective, so it is possible what you have loved from a creator's perspective is not shared by someone from a viewer's perspective.
The situations, the psychology, are all different.

Now, regarding this image you posted- I am afraid it does not tell _*me*_ the story you described. 
If I took the photo, it would have been from a volunteer's PoV, showing the hand holding the cup in sharp focus and taking up a big part of the screen, and a bunch of runners, tired and thirsty, running towards it- in relative off-focus.
I am not saying my concept makes any more sense than yours in absolute terms- just demonstrating how relative and subjective one's viewpoint might be.


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## David_in_Seattle (May 10, 2014)

Yup, happened to me on several occasions. I've learned that when it comes to event, wedding, and sports photography that my personal style is only part of the equation (sometimes 25%, other times 95%) of why they hired me. Every client has their own vision of what they want out of a photo. It's a good idea to discuss the specific deliverables with a potential client before any contract is signed.

Personally, I got tired of doing weddings, events, and sports photography as a profession and transitioned to lifestyle/travel photography where my employer hired me for my creativity and ability to scale my workflow on a global scale. Nowadays I do the other stuff for the fun of it. Takes most of the bad stress out of the equation.


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## Don Haines (May 11, 2014)

I know the feeling....

Set up to photograph "The Band" at a concert... (not the famous "The Band", just a local one). Shot hundreds of photos from dozens of angles and in the end they were more impressed with the time lapse shots from a GoPro that I had stuck to the side of the piano.... because that's the view they were interested in.... up close and personal.

The moral of the story is, find out what they are looking for and what the vision is. For the triathalon, I would have split my shots between the athlete's view of the volunteers, and a view of the volunteer's helping the athletes, with another good clump of the two interacting. In your case, they defined the vision and you shot the opposite. Your shot (at least to me) focuses on the athlete and minimizes the presence of the volunteers, the opposite of what was requested.


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## surapon (May 11, 2014)

Dear friend procentje20
Wow " Their first reaction. "The volunteers are out of focus" "----I ( as Photographer) love your photo, that show the main subject is sharp in focus, and most all of the volunteers are good blur.
BIG BUT = As the " the work of volunteers at a triathlon in my home town. " = 99% of the VOLUNTEERS are Volunteers, Many of them Big / High position in their business in your Home town, And They working hard with out pay, And The Most important thing in their lifes are have the good Photos ( OF THEM) in the Publish/ Magazine/ Pamplets--To show off that " Here are ME, , who working hard , to make this event Success---MOST OF THEM do not care , who are the winners---At all.
YES, I have learn from more than 10 race like this-----The first one try to do same thing that you did, AS THE REAL PHOTOGRAPHER, not point and shoot to get every thing sharp in focus, And I Miss alot of the Volunteers/ Staffs's Photos---Just Pin point to the Public Racers.----YES, I AM WRONG.
Yes, I ask the Boss( Of the Race) , why They do not like my " PHOTOGRAPH'S IDEA Photos ", And He explain to me like I tell you.= The Most important Photos = The Photos of their staffs and The Volunteers, Including another Volunteer Photographer too.---If No their Photos on the Book/ Publish or Pamplets after the end of Race---Most of them will not come to help in another race.---YES, Most important Pictures = BEFORE THE RACE/ Preparation, and Clean up job, by Volunteers. To record the Photos that they can use as the Volunteer project, Not The NO NAME WINNERS, who just one time race.

Yes, After the first Race/ Volunteer----I know , who I will shoot the most---The Boss and all / Yes, All of the Volunteers.

Surapon


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## surapon (May 11, 2014)

Dear friend procentje20
Wow " Their first reaction. "The volunteers are out of focus" "----I ( as Photographer) love your photo, that show the main subject is sharp in focus, and most all of the volunteers are good blur.
BIG BUT = As the " the work of volunteers at a triathlon in my home town. " = 99% of the VOLUNTEERS are Volunteers, Many of them Big / High position in their business in your Home town, And They working hard with out pay, And The Most important thing in their lifes are have the good Photos ( OF THEM) in the Publish/ Magazine/ Pamplets--To show off that " Here are ME, , who working hard , to make this event Success---MOST OF THEM do not care , who are the winners---At all.
YES, I have learn from more than 10 race like this-----The first one try to do same thing that you did, AS THE REAL PHOTOGRAPHER, not point and shoot to get every thing sharp in focus, And I Miss alot of the Volunteers/ Staffs's Photos---Just Pin point to the Public Racers.----YES, I AM WRONG.
Yes, I ask the Boss , why They do not like my " PHOTOGRAPH'S IDEA Photos ", And He explain to me like I tell you.= The Most important Photos = The Photos of their staffs and The Volunteers, Including another Volunteer Photographer too.---If No their Photos on the Book/ Publish or Pamplets after the end of Race---Most of them will not come to help in another race.---YES, Most important Pictures = BEFORE THE RACE/ Preparation, and Clean up job, by Volunteers. To record the Photos that they can use as the Volunteer project, Not The NO NAME WINNERS, who just one time race.

Surapon


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## Joe M (May 11, 2014)

Great shot. It really is. I've done some charity work and love it because I can relax and no one is looking to me for direction. I just get to walk around and hunt down the shot. But we're here to talk about yours. And I can see how the volunteers might not see it your way. I agree that it highlights the athlete and he's able to do his thing because the volunteer is doing his/hers. But it is sort of highlighting the athlete though and I suppose the volunteers want to be in the spotlight. The volunteer in focus with the athlete oof in the background would probably be what they wanted. Not as spectacular a shot but it's what they wanted. I see your point but it's sort of like some people who, when seeing my B&W photo of their daughter getting married ask if they can get it in colour instead. This is normally the older folks who still think B&W is "old fashioned". Ok, whatever you want.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 11, 2014)

I see that all the time, the customer may be looking for something that has meaning to them, and I totally miss out on. They like photos that I would have passed on. 

It does not bother me, since I understand that we all see things in a different way.


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## procentje20 (May 11, 2014)

surapon said:


> Dear friend procentje20
> Wow " Their first reaction. "The volunteers are out of focus" "----I ( as Photographer) love your photo, that show the main subject is sharp in focus, and most all of the volunteers are good blur.
> BIG BUT = As the " the work of volunteers at a triathlon in my home town. " = 99% of the VOLUNTEERS are Volunteers, Many of them Big / High position in their business in your Home town, And They working hard with out pay, And The Most important thing in their lifes are have the good Photos ( OF THEM) in the Publish/ Magazine/ Pamplets--To show off that " Here are ME, , who working hard , to make this event Success---MOST OF THEM do not care , who are the winners---At all.
> YES, I have learn from more than 10 race like this-----The first one try to do same thing that you did, AS THE REAL PHOTOGRAPHER, not point and shoot to get every thing sharp in focus, And I Miss alot of the Volunteers/ Staffs's Photos---Just Pin point to the Public Racers.----YES, I AM WRONG.
> ...



Thanks Surapon, thats probably the misunderstanding. They ask for photos of the work of the volunteers, and they meen photos of the volunteers working. Which sounds the same, but is something else artistically. 

I just thought of a wedding aniversary I was asked to shoot, where I had a list of attendants I used to make sure everyone was in at least one picture. But the list didn't include the uncle that flew 2000km to be there. And I managed to not include him in any picture. I thougt I wad being oh so professional. But in the end, the whole gig left a mediocre impression.

Learning from mistakes is important. And I've been learning a lot these past years


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## Sporgon (May 11, 2014)

Welcome to the world of professional photography


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## RLPhoto (May 11, 2014)

It happens and usually can be checked by interviewing your client as best as possible. I learned to shoot "safe" portraits alongside the more edgy stuff just to have something to fall back on if they don't like something.


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## Orangutan (May 11, 2014)

procentje20 said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > Dear friend procentje20
> ...



I think Surapon gave you a pretty good answer, but I'd like to expand on it a bit. First, I like your photo as a race photo, but not as a volunteer photo. I do some local volunteer work, and my take is that a good "volunteer photo" is a "volunteer recruitment photo." A recruitment photo needs to say one or more of the following: 


"See how much fun it is to be a volunteer" (e.g. smiling, laughing, bonding)
"See how rewarding it is to be a volunteer" (e.g. volunteer reading to elderly person, who is smiling)
"We really appreciate our volunteers" (positive feedback/approval)
"See how generous and caring I am to volunteer for this event." (as Surapon said)
(maybe) "See how important I am to be selected to volunteer for this prestigious event."

Your photo says "see how important it is to be a volunteer," but says little or nothing that would recruit or retain volunteers. If this were a BIG race (i.e. with celebrities of some kind), this might be a helpful picture because it would say "see how close you can get to celebrities."


Again, I like the photo, but agree with the client.


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## CamsSD (May 11, 2014)

It is unfortunate that when you volunteered your time to shoot for this organization, they were ungrateful and did not recognize the value of your work. Regardless of whether or not it was exactly what they wanted, they should remember that YOU DID IT FOR FREE. Sadly, a paying client will make sure they let you know exactly what they want (or at least their is a much greater chance they will) so that their money is not wasted on you. 

Since you did them a favor of shooting for FREE, that is about how much they value your work. I would not waste any more time with someone who does not value your work and is not willing to set you up to succeed in meeting their needs.

As a documentary/commercial photographer with 25 years of doing this, cut your losses and move on. They will never be happy, and you will never get that feeling of a job well done from this group of self-seeking "volunteers."

This same phenomenon happens with paid clients, too. They talk you into giving them a good deal on pricing, and then they start to change the deal and want more, or decide after the shoot (and they've signed off on the work already) that they suddenly aren't happy with what was shot. They plead poverty, ignorance, etc. etc. when you hold them to the signed agreement. 

The best thing you can do is take your photos, chalk it up to experience and move on. If they are not happy with them, then certainly they don't plan to use the images... right?? So then you can all happily part ways. You with your photos and them without your photos. 

If you want to shoot for non-profits, there are plenty of good ones out there that will appreciate your efforts.


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## sagittariansrock (May 11, 2014)

CamsSD said:


> It is unfortunate that when you volunteered your time to shoot for this organization, they were ungrateful and did not recognize the value of your work. Regardless of whether or not it was exactly what they wanted, they should remember that YOU DID IT FOR FREE. Sadly, a paying client will make sure they let you know exactly what they want (or at least their is a much greater chance they will) so that their money is not wasted on you.
> 
> Since you did them a favor of shooting for FREE, that is about how much they value your work. I would not waste any more time with someone who does not value your work and is not willing to set you up to succeed in meeting their needs.
> 
> ...




After a string of very positive input from forum members and a VERY positive response from the OP, this post hits a jarring note. 
I have not shot any photos for money till date, but if someone whom I shot doesn't like my photos I won't deduce automatically that he/she isn't appreciative of my work. It might be a question of taste, or perspective. It is very important to understand the audience. It is unfortunate that your 25 years experience has made you so cynical.


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## infared (May 11, 2014)

LOL...that is one of the reasons why I got out of the business and became a carpenter. I got away from photography completely (so sad), during the whole film>digital transition. I got back in when the 5DII came to market (I used to be a nikon film guy..but I thought that was the most affordable digital finally equals film camera to finally come along). I have been shooting ever since prodigiously ever since...FOR ME! I love it. 
I can not imaging shooting professionally now...at the risk of sounding like an arrogant snob...everyone has a cell phone and takes pictures and they can be your "director" at a photoshoot...thinking that they know a lot about professional photography based on "their" experience. They have no clue what a good photographer brings to the table. ...but like someone said above ....shoot safety shots and cover your ass. It is frustrating..no? ...they see your best work, hire you and then want safe medeocrity....and you walk away so unfulfilled. LOL. It has to be worse now than ever with instagram, snapchat, etc....EVERYONE thinks they are a photographer. Shoot a pic, run it thru some software, immediate gratification....I am an expert!!!! 
I know I am oversimplifying it.... but...just shooting for me gives me MORE joy, knowing everything that I know.
Your shot at the top of the page totally tells the story beautifully....but they were not looking for your ability and vision, they wanted snapshots of their volunteers. Don't you see, your intellect and vision are the problem. Not them!!!!!(very high sarcasm). LOL!
Nice work...I understand your dilemma. Perhaps you can balance it out and continue...


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## YuengLinger (May 11, 2014)

I would say that trying to be "artistic" with these types of events is either misguided or a little self-centric. Good, basic photojournalism skills, where story outweighs a desire to put a personal style stamp on images, is what pleases event organizers over and over. 

As for the cup image, while I see it as technically well captured, it reflects the point of view of somebody there to experience the run, but not so much someone there to manage an event. Additionally, I feel that the cup and hand simply block too much of the face for it to be of great value to the runner himself.

All that said, however, your image is fine as one of many images taken of an event. (I would have submitted it!) I can't imagine this was the only one you submitted, or that the majority were similar...so what did they have to say about your other images?


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## agierke (May 11, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> CamsSD said:
> 
> 
> > It is unfortunate that when you volunteered your time to shoot for this organization, they were ungrateful and did not recognize the value of your work. Regardless of whether or not it was exactly what they wanted, they should remember that YOU DID IT FOR FREE. Sadly, a paying client will make sure they let you know exactly what they want (or at least their is a much greater chance they will) so that their money is not wasted on you.
> ...




i actually think, from a professional stand point, CamsSD is spot on. running a professional photography business is expensive and very time consuming. regardless of the terms, if the results are not appreciated then it only makes business sense to cut the losses and move on....especially if the net gain is zero dollars. charity is one thing, but risking a photo business to open ended circumstances where the client continually asks for more and more at no compensation is ridiculous.

that aside, i dont think that was the situation for the OP. this just boils down to listening to what the client wants, even it that means taking boring shots. i don't think the shot posted does a very good job at all of what the client asked for. 

no matter what job i do (however boring it may seem to me), i first attend to the clients needs. if i come to a point where i am confident i have covered what the client wants then i start shooting for myself. i submit the best of what i get (again making sure clients original expectations are covered) and whatever shots are selected is fine. client gets what they want and hopefully i can get a portfolio shot or two for myself.

these days, i pretty much expect that a client will choose safe, boring shots. it happens all too often. just the way the world works today. bottom line is to fulfill what the client wants.


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## TAF (May 11, 2014)

I concur that the OP missed what the client wanted, and would also recommend he simply provide what he that meets the client's requirements.

However, I would not hesitate to track down the runner in that photo (and any similar ones he has) and see if they're interested in their photos. After all, that is a nice photo of that runner...

Lemons...lemonade...etc.


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## deleteme (May 11, 2014)

In the immortal word of Monte Zucker "Beauty is in the eye of the checkbook holder."

The reason a "client" does not like an image has never hurt my feelings but was a message to me that I was not on their wavelength.


You refer to this affair as a dissatisfied client situation. Once the the consumer of your work is identified as the client it becomes a business situation. What you love is irrelevant.

While there is some disagreement on this thread as to how to handle it my opinion is that you have to address it as a business deal as you were approached because of your skill. Their dissatisfaction will redound back to you in poor word of mouth so as a purely defensive move you have to invest even more non-revenue generating effort to protect your local reputation.

The real benefit to you in this situation is the education received.

It reminds me of a very early job a friend had in his job as a commercial photographer. He was very excited to be called about a product photography gig as he saw it as entry to the glamorous world of high end product photography. The client did not want to discuss the products as he said they would be very large sellers and did not want to tip off his competition. It turned out the client had a line of sex toys and vacuum penis enlargers that he need to photograph for a catalog. Needless to say the job was a bust as far as portfolio material.


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## sagittariansrock (May 11, 2014)

agierke said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > CamsSD said:
> ...




I wasn't commenting on the fact that it makes sense to cut your losses and move on. In fact, that's what the other posters have also advised and from the OP's post, he has clearly absorbed the experience and moved on. He is just sharing a thought.
However, I felt the negative generalized opinion about charity clients being unappreciative of something that was free and being ungrateful/not value someone's work AND about paying clients going back on deals, is a somewhat cynical view of the client base. It didn't go with the rest of the pragmatic advise given on this thread, including yours.


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## YuengLinger (May 11, 2014)

Normalnorm, you hit the nail on the head. Wow, if only more photographers had the attitude that clients are uninformed dolts who just don't get what the artiste has done, competition would be much less of an issue!

Your last paragraph adds some particularly, ahem, penetrating insights. But let's not get sucked into a session of limp puns.


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## CamsSD (May 11, 2014)

I am sorry if I came across as a cynic. I'm not. I am very fortunate to have developed quite a few great clients that communicate clearly and value good photography. I have also learned over the years that it is best to avoid doing business/ volunteer work with those that don't communicate clearly and value the work. 

Early on I got wrapped up with clients that treated me in a similar way... they didn't communicate clearly up front, and then weren't happy with the results and were quick to blame me for not "just knowing" what they wanted. It just doesn't end well and it is no different than any other type of relationship. Seek out good ones that help you grow, and avoid the ones that seem to just take away.

Again, I am not a cynic as much as I have learned how to avoid toxic relationships.

In no way am I suggesting that everyone, or even the majority of clients, paid or otherwise, are like this. I just think it is important to avoid the ones that are, or else be prepared for heartache and frustration. 

As I said before, there are plenty of non-profits that will be extremely appreciative of your efforts... it is a shame these folks were not.


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## YuengLinger (May 12, 2014)

"In no way am I suggesting that everyone, or even the majority of clients, paid or otherwise, are like this. I just think it is important to avoid the ones that are, or else be prepared for heartache and frustration."

I agree you can avoid doing repeat business with unreasonable jerks, but if you respond to difficult business situations with "heartache and frustration," whether photography or running a restaurant, stress is going to take a toll on your health--AND your profits.


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## dak723 (May 12, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> In your case, they defined the vision and you shot the opposite. Your shot (at least to me) focuses on the athlete and minimizes the presence of the volunteers, the opposite of what was requested.



I think it really is this simple.


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## RustyTheGeek (May 12, 2014)

YuengLinger said:


> Normalnorm, you hit the nail on the head. Wow, if only more photographers had the attitude that clients are uninformed dolts who just don't get what the artiste has done, competition would be much less of an issue!
> 
> Your last paragraph adds some particularly, ahem, penetrating insights. But let's not get sucked into a session of limp puns.



Ditto. *Normalnorm* called it the way I see it too. All of my shooting is volunteer. And I treat every shoot as a professional and I shoot most events like this in a journalistic style. I shoot 90% safe, storytelling shots. Lots of wide angle and lots of close ups. I throw in a few artistic shots for fun, for myself and whoever might get excited about them. But otherwise, I _document_ the people and the culture of the event as it is. I don't try to _interpret_ the event with my camera, except for fun and to keep myself from getting too bored.

Don't take this too hard, learn from it and stay relaxed. Have fun do like *RLPhoto*, lots of safe insurance shots and then some cool edgy shots sprinkled along the way for you to keep it interesting and just in case someone loves one of them.


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## sagittariansrock (May 12, 2014)

CamsSD said:


> I am sorry if I came across as a cynic. I'm not.



I am sorry that I misunderstood. 
Cheers


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## Roo (May 12, 2014)

Lots of good advice here, especially for a non pro like me. A good friend saw some natural light portraits I did and asked if I would do a B&W headshot for a new job she was starting. As she only had limited time we did a quick lunchtime shoot at a park near my work. She liked the shots as they came out of the camera on the day but later she told me she couldn't use them because her friends said I made her look scary. I don't do portraits for friends anymore ;D


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## zim (May 12, 2014)

surapon said:


> Dear friend procentje20
> Wow " Their first reaction. "The volunteers are out of focus" "----I ( as Photographer) love your photo, that show the main subject is sharp in focus, and most all of the volunteers are good blur.
> BIG BUT = As the " the work of volunteers at a triathlon in my home town. " = 99% of the VOLUNTEERS are Volunteers, Many of them Big / High position in their business in your Home town, And They working hard with out pay, And The Most important thing in their lifes are have the good Photos ( OF THEM) in the Publish/ Magazine/ Pamplets--To show off that " Here are ME, , who working hard , to make this event Success---MOST OF THEM do not care , who are the winners---At all.
> YES, I have learn from more than 10 race like this-----The first one try to do same thing that you did, AS THE REAL PHOTOGRAPHER, not point and shoot to get every thing sharp in focus, And I Miss alot of the Volunteers/ Staffs's Photos---Just Pin point to the Public Racers.----YES, I AM WRONG.
> ...




+100
I think the expression is 'Nailed It'


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## atkinsr (May 12, 2014)

You've got some great images there. This is not a skills/talent question, so don't take that part personally.

What needs to improve here is your line of questioning in the pre-assignment meeting. In addition to asking "What would you like photographed?" you should be asking "what message do you want those photographs to convey?". Get the answers IN DETAIL (it's not your place to judge who is most important). Write those answers down and use them. 

If the client changes their mind after the meeting, fails to tell you, and has such comments after the fact, show them those answers. This isn't about being confrontational or argumentative, but simply making the client realize that it was them, not you, not doing what was agreed to. The purpose of that realization is to avoid negative word-of-mouth.


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## jdramirez (May 12, 2014)

I don't have a story like this, but I'm often surprised at what people like. Just posting pictures of my kids on Facebook, there will be one or two photos I love but all the likes go to another... and I think, really?

I try to not read minds... but it is surprising at times.


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## YuengLinger (May 12, 2014)

"If the client changes their mind after the meeting, fails to tell you, and has such comments after the fact, show them those answers."

I'm not sure playing gotcha with clients is good in the long run, satisfying as it may be with the occasional difficult ones...


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## TeT (May 12, 2014)

just a note / query on your approach to this event. How big was your team?

Its too big an event for one photographer to capture enough varied images, especially of volunteers who are spread out over a vast area.

You should have had a TEAM over a period of 2 days covering setup through dismantle...


Its not that much different than a giant wedding shoot...


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## Act444 (May 12, 2014)

I haven't had this exact experience, but there have been many times where people pick different shots out of a set than I would have. Or, a shot that I find to be just OK ends up being favorited. Sometimes it's fascinating. We all have different tastes


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## Actionpix (May 12, 2014)

Not with a client but with a photo challenge. Make a original overview. So I parachuted over the target to get my shot. Comment; "Looks like you were hanging from a parachute." Duh.


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## mackguyver (May 12, 2014)

Welcome to paid photography . I say that in jest, but the client (nearly) always gives vague guidance, but has a very specific concept in their mind's eye. The way I get around it is to take numerous photos of the same subject with a variety of lenses and looks (shallow DOF, deep DOF, motion blur, freeze frame, etc., etc.) which gives them a lot to choose from. I pick out the best of each type of shot, send it to them, and prepare for their reaction. 9 times out of 10, they choose what I feel is the "worst" photo, but every now and then we share the same taste and they pick my favorite. As you get to know your clients better, you get a feel for their tastes, but it's tough when they are a new client. 

Also, I say nearly always because an occasional client will give you a veritable blue print of what they want. I use the same strategy with them, and guess what, at least half of the time, they prefer one of my "alternates" to the one they commissioned me to take.

If you are serious about doing commercial work, it's best to prepare yourself to be offended by clients and expect them to hate your favorites and love your least favorite work.

The silver lining is that you get paid, and guess what happens to the photos that clients don't like? You use them to promote yourself and attract more clients who love the photos you post (which are ironically the ones your other clients didn't like). 

As for me, I really like the photo and agree that it "tells the story" very well.


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## Sporgon (May 12, 2014)

TeT said:


> just a note / query on your approach to this event. How big was your team?
> 
> Its too big an event for one photographer to capture enough varied images, especially of volunteers who are spread out over a vast area.
> 
> ...



Errrrr........ You are joking....right ?

How is something like this ever going to be viable if you had to put a team of photographers on it ? ???


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## dcschooley (May 12, 2014)

Normalnorm said:


> In the immortal word of Monte Zucker "Beauty is in the eye of the checkbook holder."
> 
> The reason a "client" does not like an image has never hurt my feelings but was a message to me that I was not on their wavelength.
> 
> ...



1. A client is a client, paid work or not. A failure to determine and meet the client's needs is the fault of whoever is providing the service, be it photography or something else. The facts of what happened might say something else, but that doesn't matter.

2. The client's decision to not use a particular photograph does not make them ungrateful, unappreciative, or too clueless to understand your artistry; see #1

3. I agree with the client in this case. The OP's photograph is not very good as presented. The runner is in focus, and the two volunteers on the right are doing something interesting, so those parts are fine, The left side of the photograph is a mess and it damages the photograph. You have a disembodied, out-of-focus red arm coming in from the side holding up a blurry cup dissimilar from the one the runner is carrying. The red arm partially obscures a person in bright orange, who might be doing something interesting, but we can't tell. The runners in the background are basically ok except for being somewhat blocked by the orange person and the red arm. Cropping the image in from the left does all sorts of good. Put the crop in between the blurry cup and the runner. The story is now the interaction between the runner and the two volunteers on the right, one of whom is holding the same type of cup as the runner and implying where the runner got his drink.


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## AcutancePhotography (May 12, 2014)

dcschooley said:


> 1. A client is a client, paid work or not. A failure to determine and meet the client's needs is the fault of whoever is providing the service, be it photography or something else. ...



If the photographer does not have a clear understanding of what the client wants, I agee that it is the photographer's responsibility to engage the client further. The proper interrogation of clients, I feel, is a valuable skill for anyone who takes pictures for "someone else".

Never ever accept a client saying "oh, just take some pictures, you know what we want." yikes!

Once you agree to take pictures for someone else, it stops being what the photographer thinks would be nice, and more what the client thinks will be nice. The skill of the photographer is in the taking of what the client wants and actually being able to produce it. Anyone can take a picture the way they want to. Taking a picture the way someone else wants, that's what makes this type of photography ... interesting. ;D

Back to the OP's photograph. It is always risky to have the subject of the picture (in your case, volunteers) out of focus. It can work but for a lot of people it doesn't. 

Good luck with it. You got a lotta advice in this thread... some of it may actually be good. ;D ;D


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## procentje20 (May 13, 2014)

I love the discussion that sprung from this. The opinions couldnt be further apart. From "the client is an ***" to "you should have brought a team"

My conclusion is this: I should have better understood the clients wishes. It doesn't have anything to do with taste, technique or opportunity. 

However, I didn't show you any of the pictures they did like, as I think it is irrelevant to the original post. Which is about the picture I like, and they didn't. The fact that they ended up with a bunch of pretty pictures for their site is besides the point.

All in all that was a successful shoot. I didn't have to shoot the sports, as there was a team of pro photogs for that, and a professional videographer with a boat and motorcycle to get up close. No way I could top that.

But keep the comments coming. I'm not easily offended by critique


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## Hillsilly (May 13, 2014)

If you like critique, I like your image a lot. As part of your collection from the day, I think it would work very well. But if you gave it to me as "THE" image that encapsulates the qualities and dedication of the volunteers, then I'd side with the organiser. My attention is drawn to the athlete, not the volunteers. Its a good supporting image, but wouldn't fit my criteria for being the best image. 

Anyway, good to know its not just me that has differences of opinion with clients. ALL my clients know so much more about what I do and how I should do it that I wonder why I even bother turning up to work. 

BTW, bit surprised about some of the comments from others about volunteers. Nearly every event relies upon volunteers, and I don't see any problem in giving them a lot of credit for taking part. Even if they are the local business people trying to show how civic minded they are for a bit of self promotion - great! We should be encouraging more of it. Across the world, there is a steady decline in volunteers, and that's a bit sad. No volunteers = no events (or ridiculously high entry fees). If the solution is as simple as few good photos, let's get out there and do it.


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## AcutancePhotography (May 14, 2014)

procentje20 said:


> But keep the comments coming. I'm not easily offended by critique



Sheesh, way to take the fun out of it.


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