# Pocket Wizards Plus III - what am I missing here?



## 7enderbender (Feb 20, 2012)

I've been thinking about adding a professional trigger system to my bag at some point. PW is one of the obvious choices. Also, the Phottix Odin looks pretty good. At the moment I'm ok with my cheap ebay triggers and (even more so) with a long ETTL cable and the Canon IR remote system.

Notwithstanding, I'm tempted to add something easier in the future. So the new PW Plus III caught my attention - especially at that price. However, a closer look shows that this "feature laden" gizmo really doesn't even cover the basics. ETTL? I don't think so. High Speed Sync? Doesn't look like it. Manual control over the settings of the 4 groups? Didn't see that either. So it's a bit like a fancy version of my ebay triggers. Or what am I missing here? Sure, for those who need long distance range, repeaters and a remote for the camera this might be it. I think I'm more looking still at the Phottix...


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## 7enderbender (Feb 20, 2012)

Come to think of it: I've been saying all along that I don't think Canon (or Nikon) will incorporate true non-optical wireless into their flash system due to the legal limitations in parts of their worldwide markets. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Could the "new feature laded" PW be an indicator that such companies really have to look for new features and markets because the camera manufacturers are looking to offer alternatives now themselves?


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## DavidRiesenberg (Feb 20, 2012)

That's exactly the market they desperately want to get into - the manual only transceivers. Sure, they are still expensive compared to the chinese stuff on eBay but the price is now much more palatable than 400$ a pop for their full feature models. They offer some non-standard features such as camera triggering, compatibility to their TTL models, better potential reliability and servicing possibility at a price bracket that was vacant so far. If it will actually work well, my bet is it will be a hit.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 20, 2012)

I got the phottix odins
and I have to say they are really awesome, the screen on the back of the transmitter makes it so eay to control your groups, ballance your flash ratios etc definately worth a look

check out the new video from joe mcnally with the new pocket wizards though
http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/

cant see when i would ever use that feature. personally i think the PW are way overpriced


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## V8Beast (Feb 20, 2012)

It's basically Pocket Wizard's way of saying "We got caught with our d***s in our hands, and need a sleeker, more affordable model to compete with the cheap ebay models, even if the feature set isn't that much improved over our prior units. " At least that's my take on it. Gotta love competition.


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## smirkypants (Feb 20, 2012)

I have Flex TT5s and 430EX IIs. The TTL is very useful at times and the AC3 controller is magical and expensive. 

The Plus IIIs are just very nice manual triggers. Yawn.


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## Viggo (Feb 21, 2012)

Here I go again, but +1 for the Phottix Odin, I've been using it very much lately and it just doesn't miss one single shot, ever, period!







Shot at half and full power of my 580 II flash, power control from camera, at ANY distance, it just works. I cannot believe how Pocket Wizard screwed up so extremely bad with the Flex and Phottix just got it right.

The only thing that annoyed me was how I needed to press "SEL" button much too many times, but the new firmware just released fixed that problem, so now it's just an extension of my thoughts 

Awesome stuff....


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## SPG (Feb 21, 2012)

The PW III's do look nice, and the range/reliability is supposed to be improved, but the PWs are still basic triggers. It looks like improved basic triggers, but still basic.
I got the Odin setup a couple weeks ago and have been just loving it. The ease of use when making adjustments is incredible. I shot on snow with rapidly changing ambient light and was able to dial up and down the flash as needed without having to slog through the snow every time. I'm going to be trying out some HSS shots with a pair of flashes soon and I'm really looking forward to that. I tried the same shoot a year ago using Canon's built in IR system and it didn't work at all. Using the Odin, I'm not worried at all about pulling off this shot.


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## ed-m (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't see what the appeal of PWs are to a Canon user until they fix the interference problem (580EX II ). The Phottix solution does not have this problem, and has the added ability to adjust the flash power from the control unit on the camera. PW can't do this.

I sold my PWs once the Phottix Odin came out.


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## Viggo (Feb 21, 2012)

ed-m said:


> I don't see what the appeal of PWs are to a Canon user until they fix the interference problem (580EX II ). The Phottix solution does not have this problem, and has the added ability to adjust the flash power from the control unit on the camera. PW can't do this.
> 
> I sold my PWs once the Phottix Odin came out.



While I'm not a fan of Pocket Wizard (anymore) they do have the ability to change power from camera with the Flex system, you only need the AC3 Zone Controller on top, but that's yet another 150 usd for a small piece of plastic, and another fragile part on top with a plastic foot.


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## briansquibb (Feb 21, 2012)

I know that it is fashionable to knock PW - but I wont jump ship until they start failing, and I haven't missed a shot yet. Am happy with my miniTT1 and TT5 - results have been excellent. Have been using them with 580EXII as master and 580EX as slaves

Was out in the snow last week with flash hiding in trees and gravestones - no problems

I am going to the show in 2 weeks and will reserve judgement on the usefulness of the Plus III until I have got my hands on one.


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## Picsfor (Feb 21, 2012)

Realistically, how many shoot with multiple flashes using ETTL?

Many who have mastered the world of multiple lights have done so using them all in manual mode.

With that in mind, do you really need full ETTL? Or just the ability to select a light and adjust its power up or down?

I've only ever used ETTL with my 30D and 40D using the on board flash...

I'm not saying these are a bargain, but the OP mentioned ETTL and i wondered if that was really necessary?
High Speed Sync is always a want, i agree - and the ability to select and control a light or group of lights, definitely, but ETTL?


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## mrmarks (Feb 21, 2012)

Odin is a nice system but hopefully there will be manual control @ 1/3 stop increments not 1 stop as it is currently. I don't think this is difficult for the Phottix engineers to implement in the upgrade model.


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## briansquibb (Feb 21, 2012)

Picsfor said:


> Realistically, how many shoot with multiple flashes using ETTL?
> 
> Many who have mastered the world of multiple lights have done so using them all in manual mode.
> 
> ...



I use eTTL2 because:

- It is faster to adjust
- it takes care of changing light (outdoors)
- it is more accurate than me when adjusting 3 or more speedlights
- occasionally use a manual backlight/rimlight

Have yet to find a reason why I shouldn't use eTTL


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## drummstikk (Feb 22, 2012)

Picsfor said:


> Realistically, how many shoot with multiple flashes using ETTL?
> 
> Many who have mastered the world of multiple lights have done so using them all in manual mode.



Thanks for allowing me to not be the only curmudgeon in the room.

Agree 100% - For multi-light work, I use Vivitar 283's when I need to be quick, and White Lighting/AlienBee units when I need power. Either way, I can just tell these units what I want and I get it. With Canon or Metz units I've tried, I feel like I'm tricking the flash into giving me what I want. Plus, the amount of money I have in 5 283's is about half what single Canon 580Whatever costs.

I am impressed with consistent results in outdoor fill flash with a Canon TTL flash in a single light on-camera or near camera situation, but I don't want or need a radio for that. The Plus III will get a good hard look from me. I've only skimmed the literature, but I assume that since they called it "Plus III" and not "Max II" that it lacks the most sophisticated features of the Multi-Max (delay triggering to sync multiple remote cameras with a single set of lights, "simulated second curtain", etc.), but the compactness and more than 4 channels, plus the price being cut in half, makes it a giant leap ahead of the Plus II.


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## V8Beast (Feb 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Have yet to find a reason why I shouldn't use eTTL



IMHO, the only reason not to use ETTL flashes is cost. I've gotten some very good results with off camera Vivitars coupled with ebay triggers, but ETTL is a godsend when you're pressed for time. There's a reason why people spend $250 a pop on Radiopopper ETTL triggers.


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## Viggo (Feb 22, 2012)

Not to be a troll here, but if you use a ettl-flash and include it in the picture, you'll never get the result you want, or if you move around your subject and want the same light constantly. ETTL is fantastic for a lot of things, but I use it mainly for the line of communication to control power from camera.

Everytime I'm out shooting on a bright day, ettl just doesn't work for me as it just fills very gently in when I want POWER, then I have to FEL the subject, but that's two pushes and it often doesn't come out right if I hit the lock on the subjects darker area (if it moves) instead of face, maybe, and it's completely off, waisting 5 seconds.

I always set it to manual power outdoors and get the same consistent light no matter what is in the way (gobo's for example) or shadow or sun or both, I can get the same exact light every time. Not saying is auto and for noobs, but I feel you get what I mean. It's the best thing to happen to flash ever, but for ME it's not consistent enough in a given setting.


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## vuilang (Feb 22, 2012)

I can only see myself buying a PWIII is because of "holding shutter halfway down to focus then hit to shoot wirelessly" features..Otherwise, My TT5s in ettl mode are inseparable.


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

vuilang said:


> I can only see myself buying a PWIII is because of "holding shutter halfway down to focus then hit to shoot wirelessly" features..Otherwise, My TT5s in ettl mode are inseparable.



+1 Me too


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## Maui5150 (Feb 22, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Have yet to find a reason why I shouldn't use eTTL
> ...



Power is another reason. Some people do a lot of their work in studios. Speedlites have come a long way, and are certainly more portable than say a set of 1000W strobes with packs, but which is going to throw out more light, two Photogenic PL2500DRs or two 580 EX IIs? Now you are seeing more and more speedlites taking the place of strobes in the studios, but power to recycle time, strobes still have their place. 

Along the same lines, many strobes have built in PocketWizard receivers. So take for instance my PL2500DRR, or Profoto, Norman and several other, no need for batteries, dangling triggers, or the like... As well, for those of use who use Sekonic light meters like the L-758-DR, I have a pocket wizard trigger built in. No Synch chord. No extra transmitter. My meter fires my strobes. Very convenient. 

I also have remotes for my strobes. So not only can I pop them, take the reading, but pull out my remote, and I can go up and down on each stobe individually in 1/10th stop increments. 

Have not played with the Odins, but I think from what I have seen written up, even in manual their is a pre-flash which makes using a light meter a bit of a pain, or in many case impossible. I tend to like control. If I want F/11 I want F/11 not F/11.1. 

I think ETTL is fantastic for location shooting, impromptu shooting and when it comes to using speedlights really opens up the door to make things easier, especially with decent off-camera set ups, but I hardly use it. Most of my shooting is studio, though when I am using my 580 and Flex, I still tend to use manual settings as well


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## 7enderbender (Feb 22, 2012)

Picsfor said:


> Realistically, how many shoot with multiple flashes using ETTL?
> 
> Many who have mastered the world of multiple lights have done so using them all in manual mode.
> 
> ...




That's exactly it. I would be ok to not have ETTL per se - but you kind of need it for HSS and manual control from the camera/controller. Meaning not the ETTL functionality but the two way communication that comes with it.


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## V8Beast (Feb 22, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> I think ETTL is fantastic for location shooting, impromptu shooting and when it comes to using speedlights really opens up the door to make things easier, especially with decent off-camera set ups, but I hardly use it. Most of my shooting is studio, though when I am using my 580 and Flex, I still tend to use manual settings as well



Most my gigs are on location, so my Speedlights get a lot of use. Ever had to hop on a plane with a studio lighting setup? Major PITA. That said, if you're shooting studio stuff most of the time, then without question, a monolight setup is the way to go.


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> Maui5150 said:
> 
> 
> > I think ETTL is fantastic for location shooting, impromptu shooting and when it comes to using speedlights really opens up the door to make things easier, especially with decent off-camera set ups, but I hardly use it. Most of my shooting is studio, though when I am using my 580 and Flex, I still tend to use manual settings as well
> ...



Mine are almost all location shots - on Thursday it is a theatre to take some publicity shots


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## Maui5150 (Feb 22, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> Maui5150 said:
> 
> 
> > I think ETTL is fantastic for location shooting, impromptu shooting and when it comes to using speedlights really opens up the door to make things easier, especially with decent off-camera set ups, but I hardly use it. Most of my shooting is studio, though when I am using my 580 and Flex, I still tend to use manual settings as well
> ...



Again, photography is like so many other things... Tons and tons of tools and some applications are better served by others. 

For the studio photographer, ETTL offers a bit less than say an out-and-about location photographer. In some cases, it offers a lot less, i.e. with some pre-flash of the Odins, it looks like it takes away from me using a light meter.

Can't remember if it was Scott McNally or one of the other Kelby guys, but he was doing some action shots in the desert and to have enough light for one of the shots, he had something light 4 Speed Lights all joined together. Overkill for what most need, but does get pricey. 

Output can matter as well. 430 throws less light, but recycles faster, so if you don't need the master mode, in many cases 2 430s will be a better option than a single 580 and close to the same price. 

I mentioned the studio setting because of comments that there was almost no reason not to go with ETTL which is not necessarily true. I do use it on occasion, have some of my gear that can take advantage of it, but most of my shots are done without. Most of the time I have used my speedlight for a quick add in hair light with some of the cheap speedlight soft boxes. 

It will be interesting to see what Canon comes out with for possibly a newer replacement for the 580. Not sure strobes will ever go away, but perhaps if their comes a time when the speed lights start getting sick guide numbers and faster recycle times, that may become more of an option. 

Portability is definitely a huge strength of the speedlight, and one I considered greatly after testing a Vagabond Mini LI a while. Though it has two outlets, because my strobes are digital, the wave they need to recycle properly exceeds the Mini... Generally it is fine with a single PL2500DR, but if I try and do two, the recycle struggles. I still like my strobes, their remote capabilities, their power, their recycle, and their adjustability... but far from light and portable. That is why I have both. Maybe after I have picked up a few more speed lights I might find I can use them more in the studio as well, but it is always nice to have options


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## JimKarczewski (Feb 22, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> Output can matter as well. 430 throws less light, but recycles faster, so if you don't need the master mode, in many cases 2 430s will be a better option than a single 580 and close to the same price.



I'd be happy to use 430's in my application, but the problem is, there is no external battery pack connector which really pisses me off with these. I have to use 580's because I need the battery pack for recycle times, but I could get away probably with the same thing using 430's if they had a port... only a port.


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

JimKarczewski said:


> Maui5150 said:
> 
> 
> > Output can matter as well. 430 throws less light, but recycles faster, so if you don't need the master mode, in many cases 2 430s will be a better option than a single 580 and close to the same price.
> ...



Just go for more 430s - faster recycle time that way. Rechargables are better than alkaline for recycle


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## SPG (Feb 23, 2012)

JimKarczewski said:


> I'd be happy to use 430's in my application, but the problem is, there is no external battery pack connector which really pisses me off with these. I have to use 580's because I need the battery pack for recycle times, but I could get away probably with the same thing using 430's if they had a port... only a port.



Have you tried the PowerGenix NiZn 1.6v batteries? I started using them in my 430exII and I am shocked at how fast they recycle. Faster than eneloops, faster than I recall I could get with my old battery pack (which I don't have anymore to check against). Full power dump to full recycle looks like under a second. I'm going to film it and check against timecode to see how fast they really are.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 23, 2012)

Viggo said:


> Not to be a troll here, but if you use a ettl-flash and include it in the picture, you'll never get the result you want, or if you move around your subject and want the same light constantly. ETTL is fantastic for a lot of things, but I use it mainly for the line of communication to control power from camera.
> 
> Everytime I'm out shooting on a bright day, ettl just doesn't work for me as it just fills very gently in when I want POWER, then I have to FEL the subject, but that's two pushes and it often doesn't come out right if I hit the lock on the subjects darker area (if it moves) instead of face, maybe, and it's completely off, waisting 5 seconds.
> 
> I always set it to manual power outdoors and get the same consistent light no matter what is in the way (gobo's for example) or shadow or sun or both, I can get the same exact light every time. Not saying is auto and for noobs, but I feel you get what I mean. It's the best thing to happen to flash ever, but for ME it's not consistent enough in a given setting.



Agreed, quite often I will deliberately go with manual to avoid ettl doing unexpected things as you described.
Still for certain situations I love ettl like run and gun on camera flash with weddings. I like to use 580ex flashes so i have the choice of shooting ettl, manual high speed sync or whatever I need


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## SPG (Feb 23, 2012)

SPG said:


> Have you tried the PowerGenix NiZn 1.6v batteries? I started using them in my 430exII and I am shocked at how fast they recycle. Faster than eneloops, faster than I recall I could get with my old battery pack (which I don't have anymore to check against). Full power dump to full recycle looks like under a second. I'm going to film it and check against timecode to see how fast they really are.



I just filmed two 430exIIs fired from remote trigger at full power and timed them to see how long they took to recycle. The NiZn battery powered flash took 32 frames which equals 1.067 seconds, so let's just call it a second. Regular old Duracells took almost 9 seconds, but I don't think they were very fresh so let's not really count that. Typical recycle with alkalines will still be about 5-7 seconds.
Point being that you don't really need a battery pack anymore if you just want a fast recycle time. Battery pack will still keep you firing for more shots, but the recycle time is easy to get now without a pack.


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## V8Beast (Feb 23, 2012)

This is kinda off topic, but why no love for the 550EX? It puts out more juice than the 430, can be used as a master, and costs only $200 used on ebay. I love mine.


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## briansquibb (Feb 23, 2012)

SPG said:


> SPG said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried the PowerGenix NiZn 1.6v batteries? I started using them in my 430exII and I am shocked at how fast they recycle. Faster than eneloops, faster than I recall I could get with my old battery pack (which I don't have anymore to check against). Full power dump to full recycle looks like under a second. I'm going to film it and check against timecode to see how fast they really are.
> ...



Do people still use Duracells? I stopped using those when they started to overheat.

I am now using 2900 rechargeables - they keep cool, recycle faster and last all day - and are cheap


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## Viggo (Feb 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Do people still use Duracells? I stopped using those when they started to overheat.
> 
> I am now using 2900 rechargeables - they keep cool, recycle faster and last all day - and are cheap



Wow, so you use 725 flashes? ;D ;D


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## briansquibb (Feb 23, 2012)

Viggo said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Do people still use Duracells? I stopped using those when they started to overheat.
> ...



: : : : ;D ;D ;D


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## SPG (Feb 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> SPG said:
> 
> 
> > SPG said:
> ...



It just happened to be what I had on hand.


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## smirkypants (Mar 9, 2012)

Anyone else think that the folks at Pocket Wizard are dropping bricks right about now? There is increasing pressure from the low end of the market, given the Phottix Odins cost less, and by all accounts work just as well or better. The Pixel Kings, even a lower priced option, also seem to work well and both systems are TTL. Now there is increasing pressure from the high end as Canon introduces its own system that may very well eat into the sales to those with large budgets.

Who is left to buy their overpriced triggers? You used to NEVER see used PWs on eBay, but now there are plenty.

If I'm the CEO of PW, I'm not sleeping well.


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## Maui5150 (Mar 9, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> Anyone else think that the folks at Pocket Wizard are dropping bricks right about now? There is increasing pressure from the low end of the market, given the Phottix Odins cost less, and by all accounts work just as well or better. The Pixel Kings, even a lower priced option, also seem to work well and both systems are TTL. Now there is increasing pressure from the high end as Canon introduces its own system that may very well eat into the sales to those with large budgets.
> 
> Who is left to buy their overpriced triggers? You used to NEVER see used PWs on eBay, but now there are plenty.
> 
> If I'm the CEO of PW, I'm not sleeping well.



Not sure. Odins are a little cheaper, but not by much. Retail of a Flex/Mini combo is $420 versus $360 so about 15% cheaper, but Odins will not work with any of the PW units that are out there already, and there are MILLIONS of PW, PWIIs and MultiMax in the market. The Canon system looks so so, but only works with the 600 and can't fire any other flash or studio strobes, so is pretty much useless to some of us out there. That is also not to say Odins are any cheaper because when I look at Norman, ProFoto, Photogenic and Sekonic, many of their strobes or devices have BUILT-IN PW triggers.

Now for a brand new photographer with no gear, then you may have some arguments, but the Canon solution is useless is most studios, and while the Odin can fire older Strato triggers, for many shooters, this is a more expensive option since their devices already have PWs built in

Now if Canon makes a trigger to be used with strobe or flashes via Sync, then maybe it has some impact.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 9, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> Now if Canon makes a trigger to be used with strobe or flashes via Sync, then maybe it has some impact.



I would not be at all surprised if Canon has such a device ready to go, and is just waiting for the 600EX-RT and ST-E3 sales to run for a while, to pull in the customers willing to change to that system entirely. Then, Canon's marketing cowboys will get on their white horses and ride to the rescue with the new *Canon RR-1* (Remote Receiver-1), which via RF can hotshoe trigger most existing Canon EX strobes (but not the 270EX - solely a firmware limitation). Then flashzebra can come out with a hotshoe-to-PC-sync adapter for the RR-1, and photographers who need to integrate with monolights or 3rd party flashes can get on with their lives... :


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## smirkypants (Mar 9, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> Not sure. Odins are a little cheaper, but not by much. Retail of a Flex/Mini combo is $420 versus $360 so about 15% cheaper, but Odins will not work with any of the PW units that are out there already, and there are MILLIONS of PW, PWIIs and MultiMax in the market. The Canon system looks so so, but only works with the 600 and can't fire any other flash or studio strobes, so is pretty much useless to some of us out there. That is also not to say Odins are any cheaper because when I look at Norman, ProFoto, Photogenic and Sekonic, many of their strobes or devices have BUILT-IN PW triggers.
> 
> Now for a brand new photographer with no gear, then you may have some arguments, but the Canon solution is useless is most studios, and while the Odin can fire older Strato triggers, for many shooters, this is a more expensive option since their devices already have PWs built in
> 
> Now if Canon makes a trigger to be used with strobe or flashes via Sync, then maybe it has some impact.


Hmm. I know very little about studio gear since all of my portraiture is run & gun. I have 4 flexes and a couple of cranky 580s. The 430s work great and I almost always bring those instead. Still, this was a decision made a bit ago and I probably wouldn't make the same decision again given the high costs. 

Your price difference is just for the basic set of two, but each additional Odin receiver is about $130 whereas each additional flex is $100 more than that. If you have 4 flashes, the differences really add up.
5 flexes + AC3 Zone controler (I don't like the mini because of the battery) = $1230
1 Odin trigger + 4 receivers = $850
A 44% difference. Not insignificant. But I'm sure you're right about studio lighting.


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## Maui5150 (Mar 9, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> Hmm. I know very little about studio gear since all of my portraiture is run & gun. I have 4 flexes and a couple of cranky 580s. The 430s work great and I almost always bring those instead. Still, this was a decision made a bit ago and I probably wouldn't make the same decision again given the high costs.
> 
> Your price difference is just for the basic set of two, but each additional Odin receiver is about $130 whereas each additional flex is $100 more than that. If you have 4 flashes, the differences really add up.
> 5 flexes + AC3 Zone controler (I don't like the mini because of the battery) = $1230
> ...



Well that 44% difference is a little disingenuous because you are making a $100 difference based upon battery, when in fact, you could even stock up on the small battery (I just picked a pair up off of Amazon for $4.50 including shipping) and never have to chance running out again for only $20.

Likewise, for my situation, I have a mini, 1 flex, and fire 2 Photogenic PL2500DRRs, 1 Photogenic PL1250DR and a 580 EX II. My cost for my PW solution is $430 (I only paid $375 for the Mini and Flex though) and I fire 4 lights, and that would cost me $850 with Phottix???

As well. My Sekonic light meter (L-758R) will trigger the lights, and metering with the Odins is a real pain because of the pre-flash which can't be turned off compared to what I can do, so in a Studio evironment, the Phottix solution can be 200% the cost of mine.

Likewise... What is your total watts and recycle time of your 4 580s versus 2 PL2500DRRs, a PL1250DR and a 580? I think if I wanted the same amount of light from 580s, I would need 10.

I think e-TTL does some great things, I think speedlites are also fantastic, but I also can see in many cases size matters, both ways... Bigger can sometimes be better, and portability is great too. When I start seeing 3 - 4 speedlites being thrown inside an Octabox, that is a $2000 light modifier. That is expensive portability. 

How many Odin / Strato units are out there, versus how many PW, PW II, MultiMax, Flex5 and now PWIII. If you needed to borrow a unit? Which could you find more easily. Part of the PW is the number out in the market and the fact that if you have had one for 5 years, it will work with the PW III. You still may have to pick up a couple of units to take full advantage, but when I click my Sekonic, my strobes fire. That is something the Canon system can't do nor the Odins. 

Maybe 10 years from now Strobes will be a thing of the past, and everything will be speed lites, only time will tell.


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## smirkypants (Mar 9, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> Well that 44% difference is a little disingenuous because you are making a $100 difference based upon battery, when in fact, you could even stock up on the small battery (I just picked a pair up off of Amazon for $4.50 including shipping) and never have to chance running out again for only $20.


I'm not trying to be disingenuous or combative, I'm just saying what would replace my current setup. I'm just saying what it would cost to replace. And the mini is only $30 less than the flex. I prefer having an extra flex. I'm just saying I paid a lot more and I have trouble with my 580EX II at range. We want different things.


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## V8Beast (Mar 9, 2012)

Coming from someone who shoots with three 550EXs, and is about to shell out big bucks with multiple 600EXs and an ST-E3, I'm certainly not doing it to save money over a proper monolight setup! I'm on location for 90 percent of my shoots, and using off-camera flash in 90 percent of those shots. The portability, the lack of cords, the lack of a power supply, quick setup time, and precise ETTL metering is why the Speedlites suit my needs most of the time. However, they are by no means a substitute for a set of real monolights in a studio environment. If you need to light up a large subject with fast recycle times, you need a set of monolights. 

Speedlites can work just as well as monolights in certain situations, but you pay a hefty premium for the added portability. IMHO, Speedlights and monolights are merely different tools for different situations. One isn't necessarily as substitute for the other, and arguing that one is better than the other is silly.


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## Maui5150 (Mar 23, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> Coming from someone who shoots with three 550EXs, and is about to shell out big bucks with multiple 600EXs and an ST-E3, I'm certainly not doing it to save money over a proper monolight setup! I'm on location for 90 percent of my shoots, and using off-camera flash in 90 percent of those shots. The portability, the lack of cords, the lack of a power supply, quick setup time, and precise ETTL metering is why the Speedlites suit my needs most of the time. However, they are by no means a substitute for a set of real monolights in a studio environment. If you need to light up a large subject with fast recycle times, you need a set of monolights.
> 
> Speedlites can work just as well as monolights in certain situations, but you pay a hefty premium for the added portability. IMHO, Speedlights and monolights are merely different tools for different situations. One isn't necessarily as substitute for the other, and arguing that one is better than the other is silly.



Never said it was.

The title of this thread is "Pocket Wizards Plus III - what am I missing here?" and there is a general theme that since it does not have e-TTL it is crap, where in many of the cases enumerated, not only do these hold their own, but are cheaper and preferred. 

And agreed, both speedlites and monolights have different advantages and uses, and depending on ones needs and uses, certain features will be more valuable than others.


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