# This and That



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 2, 2011)

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<strong>Canon Medium Format?

</strong>A lot of discussion around the web about whether or not the 1D X is really a unification of the flagship line. A lot of people want that big megapixel studio camera.</p>
<p>[<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon_medium_format_2ff.html">NL</a>] posted an interesting quote from an interview with Canon Japan recently.</p>
<blockquote><p>While we hear the voices, we want to see what the actual sales numbers will be for the 1D X and so determine how many 10,000s of customers we might be losing if we do not introduce a higher resolution camera and if the projected profitability of a higher resolution 24Ã—36 mm format camera will justify development, marketing, and manufacturing investments , or if there is a sustainable market for the even greater costs of development, marketing, and manufacturing medium format cameras and lenses â€“ an area where we have no internal expertise.</p></blockquote>
<p>A few people I have spoken to desire a flagship camera that is high megapixel. They would like performance beyond what could be had for $2500 or so in a 5D Mark III.</p>
<p>I havenâ€™t heard of a medium format prototype within Canon, however I have heard in the past that Canon has considered purchasing a medium format company. Iâ€™ve personally never understood why they would, they are more than capable of entering the market themselves.</p>
<p><strong>Canon Mirrorless [CR1]

</strong>Will Canon target the niche market with any sort of mirrorless camera in the future? Thatâ€™s what one person told me this week. Thereâ€™s no interest in the company in releasing an NEX or Nikon 1 kind of mirrorless.</p>
<p><strong>B&H Deal of the day

</strong>B&H has the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680103-USA/Canon_2751B002_EF_70_200mm_f_2_8L_IS.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II in stock and selling for $2074</a> until January 7, 2012.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## briansquibb (Dec 2, 2011)

dilbert said:


> Why would Canon buy a MF company?



1. Speed of product to market
2. Getting the right technicians immediately and working as a team from the off
3. Reduce market competition


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## Sunnystate (Dec 2, 2011)

This is the time when, I hate to be about right, it is just silly how they can spin things and have lap dogs bark and make others to, how they hate high megapixel sensors:


Sunnystate

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
Â« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2011, 12:08:29 AM Â»


Considering apparent money frenzy culture at Canon, I see something entirely different emerging from all recent events.
Canon is setting stage to offer ultra pro high res camera at the price point of medium format camera.
Yes we will get 40 MP camera similar like the C300, with some huge announcement at Metropolitan Museum Of Art in the photography department or something.
Be prepare, they may even produce couple Super Wide angle "Terra" lenses $20,000- $60,000 a piece.
Our expectations for entry level FF camera body will look so silly soon...
I will have to research who is really behind all of this. It does not look very Japanese to me.
Welcome to the globalism.
Logged


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## jbwise01 (Dec 2, 2011)

Obviously canon understands the market for each of their cameras, and the 5D3 is not intended to be a MP hog, but more of a photo-journalist camera. the size alone should indicate its intended function as a camera meant to be used on the go. 

While they are plenty of reasons to have a lighter studio grade camera or a more compact landscape rig, the 5D3 is, at its soul, a mobile FF camera. Larger MP 2FF+ cameras are most surely a niche market, these cameras would most certainly be less mobile and more cumbersome for walk around shooting than the 5D3 will be.


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## digishooter (Dec 2, 2011)

If Canon is not interested in MF or larger sensors, I find it odd that they already spent the time and money developing 50 and 120mpx sensors for use in such cameras.

The fact of the market is that Nikon and Sony will bring out 30-40mpx DSLR's which will eat into Canon's market share, just as the D3 and D700 did. Unfortunately, Canon's current obsession with catering to the video end of the market spectrum will likely delay updated DSLR's.


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## J. McCabe (Dec 2, 2011)

digishooter said:


> The fact of the market is that Nikon and Sony will bring out 30-40mpx DSLR's which will eat into Canon's market share, just as the D3 and D700 did. Unfortunately, Canon's current obsession with catering to the video end of the market spectrum will likely delay updated DSLR's.



Possibly, Canon thinks (correctly or incorrectly) that investing in the video end of the market is more profitable than investing in the high MP end of the market.


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## JR (Dec 2, 2011)

The only thing missing in Canon executive response I think is it also depend on what NIkon does in the next 6 months. Once we see a D800 and maybe a D4 sometimes in 2012 they will help set the stage on how Canon will complete or update its current line of DSLR.

I suspect the D4 to be close to the 1DX in spec, but it will be interesting to see how a D800 with high MP does in the market and how its IQ compares to the existing 21MP 5DII...

I further suspect Canon to have a few model on the shelf with very different spec depending on how competitors respond. We keep hearing about Sony and Nikon high MP machine, but we have yet to see one, so lets be patient!


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 2, 2011)

Canon Japan said:


> ...we want to see what the actual sales numbers will be for the 1D X and so determine how many 10,000s of customers we might be losing if we do not introduce a higher resolution camera and if the projected profitability of a higher resolution 24Ã—36 mm format camera will justify *development*, marketing, and manufacturing investments...



This statement, if representative of Canon's position, suggests they have not even begun development of a high-MP FF sensor. That means those hoping for a high-resolution 5DIII are going to be disappointed, either because the 5DIII will use the 1D X sensor (most likely scenario), or because if there's going to be a high MP 5DIII, it won't come for _at least_ 1.5 years.


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## Caps18 (Dec 2, 2011)

I think they should come out with a medium format camera, and they could probably do it very well.


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## KyleSTL (Dec 2, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> I havenâ€™t heard of a medium format prototype within Canon, however I have heard in the past that Canon has considered purchasing a medium format company. *Iâ€™ve personally never understood why they would, they are more than capable of entering the market themselves.*



What about purchasing an MF company because there would already be an existing mount, and a base of legacy lenses. If Canon attempted to break into the MF market without that, wouldn't they need to develop their own mount and a brand new set of lenses? Seems to make sense to me. Same as Sony buying Konica/Minolta to use their mount (very different case, but same logic).


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## justicend (Dec 2, 2011)

Caps18 said:


> I think they should come out with a medium format camera, and they could probably do it very well.



Enterying MF market is a big investment, and MF market is not that big as consumer market. Even if canon produce it the whole range of new optics is required. But no one can predict the future,anything is possible. But I think 5DMKIII will use 18MP from what I read. But Canon medium format will be something interesting. I dont think this happening in near future as they stated that they don't have internal experience with MF.


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## candyman (Dec 2, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> That means those hoping for a high-resolution 5DIII are going to be disappointed, either because the 5DIII will use the 1D X sensor (most likely scenario), or because if there's going to be a high MP 5DIII, it won't come for _at least_ 1.5 years.



So what do you think? Will prices of a new 5D MKII go up again?
Looks like also current owners of a 5D MKII will not put theirs for sale.


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## thepancakeman (Dec 2, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> ...how many 10,000s of customers we might be losing...



Somehow I find that hard to believe. 

Since 10,000 is plural, we'll use 20,000 for the short end. Throw in a little inflation, we'll call a 5d3 $3000. Most people buying one are likely to be buying at least 2 decent lenses for it, let's say at a mean of $1500 each. So *Canon is going to forgo $120 million* in sales (exluding accessories AND all the future revenue associated with brand loyalty) to "see what happens". I'm not buying it.

I'm not saying the 5d3 specifically will be high MP, I'm just saying there's no way Canon can stay out of the high MP market (unless they convince Sony and Nikon to as well and thereby not lose the "10,000s of customers")


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 2, 2011)

thepancakeman said:


> Since 10,000 is plural, we'll use 20,000 for the short end. Throw in a little inflation, we'll call a 5d3 $3000. Most people buying one are likely to be buying at least 2 decent lenses for it, let's say at a mean of $1500 each. So *Canon is going to forgo $120 million* in sales (exluding accessories AND all the future revenue associated with brand loyalty) to "see what happens". I'm not buying it.



Are you suggesting that if Canon releases a 5DIII which incorporates the 18 MP sensor from the 1D X, with the ISO and DR improvements, that no one will buy it? I'm not buying _that_. Canon's not saying no 5DIII, they're saying no high-MP FF sensor (for now).


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## mackguyver (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't want to incite the flamers here, but as someone who works in the product development & marketing world, I can tell you that companys tend to listen to their paying customers, not internet fanboys, and why they are smart enough to look at the competitive environment. That's the reason they left 4K resolution off of the C300 and why they aren't building a 30+ MP camera.

Fuji has brought medium format within striking distance of high-end DSLRs and while Canon has the resources to compete, why spend millions on R&D of a whole new system (i.e. with MF you couldn't use EOS lenses) to compete in a new space when you can (continue to) dominate the SLR space? Also, while the internet is full of people screaming for 30+ MP, 1080/60p, 4k, 20fps, etc. the majority of Canon's professional customers (who are actually buying their gear) clearly aren't using or needing those features *yet*. I'm sure they want them, too, but you'll notice that most professionals don't work with the latest bodies or lenses (unless they are Explorers of Light, etc.). They are more likely to stay with what works, see how the new stuff works out, and then buy as time & money allows. Canon has to reassure these pros that the new gear is not only advanced, but also reliable. If your income depends on your gear (unlike me and most posters on the web) a 40MP camera that breaks down is worthless and a pro would rather shoot a 10MP camera that works.

Just my two cents as a technology lover, but also a realist when it comes to products.


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## Haydn1971 (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm still convinced that the next camera will be an entry level FF 9D using the 18mpx sensor from the 1Dx, with the 5D labouring on for another year then being replaced with a higher res product or potentially dropped if the market doesn't appear to want higher res FF. Canon cover both bases, have dual options for 12 months down the line...


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## lol (Dec 2, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> This statement, if representative of Canon's position, suggests they have not even begun development of a high-MP FF sensor. That means those hoping for a high-resolution 5DIII are going to be disappointed, either because the 5DIII will use the 1D X sensor (most likely scenario), or because if there's going to be a high MP 5DIII, it won't come for _at least_ 1.5 years.


While I agree with the 1D X sensor recycling, I read the "development" line a little differently. They're not going to start from scratch for a high MP FF camera, although the implication is they haven't made a directed effort into one so far. If they decide to go ahead, I think they could move quite quickly. I think it is more of a play down of the possibility of a future high MP model to help persuade the undecided towards getting the 1D X sooner than later.

And just to move totally into fantasyland here, what if they made a medium format mirrorless camera? Future scenario: other mirrorless players largely beef up contrast AF such that it can rival phase even with motion tracking and do it smaller than entry level DSLR, which in turn become undesirable. DSLRs only have one retreat: bigger sensors for shallow DoF. But the market is shrinking... time to go extreme? Imagine if the mirrorless medium format camera could have a mount distance shorter than EF mount. This means it could take existing EF lenses for backward compatibility with an adapter, in a crop mode. No, I don't know who would want such a thing... but it would be different!


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## MRW (Dec 2, 2011)

I love my Canons but if I have to purchase a whole new set of lenses Im not sure I will stay. I'm glad I held on to my Hassy V lenses, you never know.


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## briansquibb (Dec 2, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Are you suggesting that if Canon releases a 5DIII which incorporates the 18 MP sensor from the 1D X, with the ISO and DR improvements, that no one will buy it? I'm not buying _that_. Canon's not saying no 5DIII, they're saying no high-MP FF sensor (for now).



I think this 'cut down' 1DX would come with a different model number in order to avoid confusion. The 5D range has an association for portraits and landscapes that a cut down 1DX would not meet

Call it the 3D which also brings back memories from the film days - maybe even with the eye activated focus.


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## thepancakeman (Dec 2, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> thepancakeman said:
> 
> 
> > Since 10,000 is plural, we'll use 20,000 for the short end. Throw in a little inflation, we'll call a 5d3 $3000. Most people buying one are likely to be buying at least 2 decent lenses for it, let's say at a mean of $1500 each. So *Canon is going to forgo $120 million* in sales (exluding accessories AND all the future revenue associated with brand loyalty) to "see what happens". I'm not buying it.
> ...



Whoa--nope not saying that at all! :-[

What I'm saying is that Canon is not going to wait until they've lost 10,000s of customers (per the quote) before they decide to come up with a high MP camera. I was just using "5d3" as an example because we can give a rough reasonable price-point estimate on that. Sorry for the confusion!


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## lol (Dec 2, 2011)

mackguyver said:


> I don't want to incite the flamers here, but as someone who works in the product development & marketing world, I can tell you that companys tend to listen to their paying customers, not internet fanboys, and why they are smart enough to look at the competitive environment. That's the reason they left 4K resolution off of the C300 and why they aren't building a 30+ MP camera.


I agree this is likely the case with the 1D X where say 99.99% of internet posters about it would never buy something that level anyway, but I'm not sure that would be the case for a 5D3 level camera. That relative affordability means random internet posters could be a significant number of possible sales.


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## motorhead (Dec 2, 2011)

I would not want a 3D to be less "endowed" with MP than the current 5D2, that would send completely the wrong message to users. No, If Nikon do produce this 36 MP D800 then Canon are going to be forced to respond and respond reasonably promptly.

I simply don't understand why they don't seem to grasp this simple reality. Whatever they do in other areas, they must at least match the opposition in things like noise, AF performance, DR, etc. And at the moment the main opposition seems to be Nikon.

Maybe they do understand it, but for reasons best known to themselves wish to play down the fact that Nikon and Sony might have stolen a march on them.


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## briansquibb (Dec 2, 2011)

motorhead said:


> I would not want a 3D to be less "endowed" with MP than the current 5D2, that would send completely the wrong message to users. No, If Nikon do produce this 36 MP D800 then Canon are going to be forced to respond and respond reasonably promptly.
> 
> I simply don't understand why they don't seem to grasp this simple reality. Whatever they do in other areas, they must at least match the opposition in things like noise, AF performance, DR, etc. And at the moment the main opposition seems to be Nikon.
> 
> Maybe they do understand it, but for reasons best known to themselves wish to play down the fact that Nikon and Sony might have stolen a march on them.



The 3D would be aimed at a different segment - perhaps as an upgrade path for the 7D shooters

The 5DII replacement would be something else


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## keith_cooper (Dec 2, 2011)

*Article source*

Just an FYI 

The quoted English version of this is based on a suggested translation for part of the interview - I don't read Japanese, the English text was suggested on the item's G+ discussion

https://plus.google.com/104131608705810814739/posts/XZcnchwy1jf


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## unfocused (Dec 2, 2011)

It seems as though most people didn't read the full story, but rather just the tiny bit that was quoted. 

Whole story is quite interesting, although I'd love to have a better translation than Google.

Things I _THINK_ I gleaned from the translation.

Canon is not unaware of the needs of studio photographers but that was not their target audience with this camera. It was sports and news.
The 1DX required a balancing act between pixel count and frame speed.
They are very proud of the ISO performance. The English translation says ISO 1,600 is "Beyond Comparison." They talk about ISO 51,200 and even say that ISO 204,800 will work for news photos.

It's pretty clear APS-H is DEAD. The Interview talks about how they determined that the new generation of tele-extenders and lenses perform well enough that they felt comfortable dropping APS-H and that the problem with APS-H was that there is no comparable way to compensate for the crop factor with the existing lens lineup for wide-angle shooting. Seems they figured it was easier to compensate with the telephotos and extenders.

They also seemed to be saying (and as a 7D owner I found this very intriguing) that they are watching the market reaction and may consider a professional 1.6 crop option if the market demands. 

Interestingly (in my opinion) is that they make no mention of the "upsampling" idea that Canon first raised when they announced the 1DX. (As an aside, for those wondering why Canon would develop a super-high megapixel APS-H sensor and then drop the format, I believe I read somewhere that it might have been targeted for security cameras. Which makes sense to me. Need those high megapixels to nail your license plate when you run a red light)

They explained their rationale for the double-exposure feature (something I've been scratching my head over) by saying that even though it could be done in an image editing program their research showed their was some merit in being able to view the image immediately in the field.

They talked about raising the total AF performance both with the camera and with the new 300mm and 400mm lenses.

There is a new cleaning system that "burps" the dust off the sensor. (At least that was the translation)

I was fascinated by the pictures of the mock-ups and how much effort went into tweaking the design of the camera to make it as ergonomic and intuitive as possible. 

They said they chose to include the LAN option because it is more reliable than wireless and for events like the Olympics and World Cup, the photographers want a wired LAN. 

It appears they decided to offer wireless LAN and GPS as an add on because of the difficulty of coming up with a system that would meet worldwide regulatory requirements. 

Finally, it ends with some discussion about mirrorless cameras. From what I could tell, it sounds like they feel they are competing very well against mirrorless in Japan, where mirrorless has been popular and adopted more quickly than in other countries. Didn't rule it out, but didn't indicate that Canon has a mirrorless option in the wings. 

Anyway, those are my takeaways. Others may have their own interpretations and, of course, if someone can translate from the original Japanese, it would be much better.


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## lol (Dec 3, 2011)

unfocused said:


> It seems as though most people didn't read the full story, but rather just the tiny bit that was quoted.
> 
> Whole story is quite interesting, although I'd love to have a better translation than Google.
> 
> ...


Nice summary. I only managed to get about half way through the googlish translation before I had to give up!


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## Justin (Dec 3, 2011)

My exact thoughts. My next thought was that I am for the first time seriously considering making a switch to Nikon. What a pain in the donkey.... 

They sound naive enough to not have thought this through. The 5D2 is a monumental success for it's balance between affordability, high resolution, and video. Take away any of those factors and you lose a bunch of sales. 



neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Japan said:
> 
> 
> > ...we want to see what the actual sales numbers will be for the 1D X and so determine how many 10,000s of customers we might be losing if we do not introduce a higher resolution camera and if the projected profitability of a higher resolution 24Ã—36 mm format camera will justify *development*, marketing, and manufacturing investments...
> ...


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## Justin (Dec 3, 2011)

lol said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > I don't want to incite the flamers here, but as someone who works in the product development & marketing world, I can tell you that companys tend to listen to their paying customers, not internet fanboys, and why they are smart enough to look at the competitive environment. That's the reason they left 4K resolution off of the C300 and why they aren't building a 30+ MP camera.
> ...



+1 The 5D is an affordable (enough) camera that people with disposable income will buy it. Ergo tens of thousands of amateur sales.


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## AG (Dec 3, 2011)

unfocused said:


> They also seemed to be saying (and as a 7D owner I found this very intriguing) that they are watching the market reaction and may consider a professional 1.6 crop option if the market demands.



This part was the key from what i have been hearing around the traps.

Its not a popular opinion, but there may be a possibility that Canon have decided to change their line up considerably.

For example

1D -X = Full Frame speed shooter.

5D mk3 = Could become the "video DSLR" taking the best parts of the C300 and 1DX video and putting that into the 5D3 body. Sure it won't be a C300 but it could possibly do 4K but its stills may suffer because of this.

7D mk2 = becomes the monster APS-C sensored camera to replace the older 1D APS-H, It could have all of the benefits of the 1D-X but with the Crop instead of FF and a much higher MP rate to suit....even dare i say as high as the fabled 36MP people want.

If you think about it this would cover the basics for the Pro market (sure not everyone will be happy and there will be plenty that threaten to switch to Nikon but that happens with any new announcement).

The 60D could evolve into basically what the 7D is now.

and the XXXD/Rebel can remain the profit generators that they have become. 

Sure this post will be smite'd for suggesting such blasphemy buy it would make sense if Canon really wanted to streamline its footprint like they said when they merged the 1D series.


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## airfang (Dec 3, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p><strong>B&H Deal of the day
> 
> </strong>B&H has the <a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680103-USA/Canon_2751B002_EF_70_200mm_f_2_8L_IS.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296\">Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II in stock and selling for $2074</a> until January 7, 2012.</p>
> <p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>



actually, there's a better deal for 70-200 at B&H that only costs $1974, I am not sure if it is a mistake:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=SHCA7020028L&N=0

It seems that searching by item ID or by the terms "canon 70-200" will lead to different product pages. Again, today is the last day of this amazing offer! Act fast if you want one!


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## StevenBrianSamuels (Dec 3, 2011)

*Canon Buys Mamiya [CR1]*


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## aldvan (Dec 3, 2011)

One thing that amazes me is that Canon doesn't seem to care much about the opinion of its 'real' users. I am a Gold member of CPS, with a very typical and standard kit, but I never received a questionnaire or interview aimed to know my desires. I find this rather unusual, if I compare the behavior of brands in other sectors, such as automotive or electronics, for instance ...


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## moreorless (Dec 3, 2011)

lol said:


> I agree this is likely the case with the 1D X where say 99.99% of internet posters about it would never buy something that level anyway, but I'm not sure that would be the case for a 5D3 level camera. That relative affordability means random internet posters could be a significant number of possible sales.



Again though even as someone who's one of them to some extent I'm not sure the more vocal internet posters really represent the majority of Canon's amature userbase. For most users I'm guessing that a relatively cheap jack of all trades 5D mk3 with say 6 fps, slightly improved AF and exellent ISO and a less demanding sensor would be more than welcome. 

That seems like the main advanatge of the 1DX sensor route to me, the pro's who have the money to spend are forced to spend more of it on longer lenses compaired to ASPH and the amatures who have less to spend get a good all round camera even with just a 24-105 to go with it.



> And just to move totally into fantasyland here, what if they made a medium format mirrorless camera? Future scenario: other mirrorless players largely beef up contrast AF such that it can rival phase even with motion tracking and do it smaller than entry level DSLR, which in turn become undesirable. DSLRs only have one retreat: bigger sensors for shallow DoF



Along with an "M9 killer" psuedo rangefinder mirrorless based on primes that actually seems like a good tactic to me. Considering most landscape/studio users are going to be using wide/normal lenses most of the time(and shorter tele when they do) you have the potential for a reasonabley well balanced system thats similar in size/weight to a 5D.


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## lol (Dec 3, 2011)

AG said:


> 7D mk2 = becomes the monster APS-C sensored camera to replace the older 1D APS-H, It could have all of the benefits of the 1D-X but with the Crop instead of FF and a much higher MP rate to suit....even dare i say as high as the fabled 36MP people want.



While I have no fear of MP count, I think 36MP would be highly unlikely in a 7D2. Given what the 1D X has shown us, I suspect the 7D2 could have an increased fps rate but generally there is a speed/resolution tradeoff. High speed doesn't easily go well with high resolution too unless you throw a lot of money at it. So that would put pressure on keeping the MP count lower.

For example, the Sony a77 has 8fps with a 12fps boosted speed model (no I haven't checked out what the exact limitations are in the boosted speed modes). The 1D X has 12fps boost to 14fps. Let's say Canon could go for 10fps with boost to 12fps on a 7D2 with a hypothetical sensor at say 21MP and same processing capability as 1D X. Why 21MP? I think they would continue the MP count growth here slowly as they would continue to reuse the same sensor in lower bodies also. Or perhaps they would throw a curve ball and bring out a drop to 16MP (not 15 or 18 as that would confuse with their existing sensors).


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## Orangutan (Dec 3, 2011)

Every serious sports/action shooter would want it because it could also be a 24- or 30-fps still camera. That's more chances to capture the "exact moment" something happened. Yes, there are photographers who do this well by anticipating the action, but why not have the extra option? Your assistant can be grabbing 4K video while you anticipate action, then take the best of both.

Of course, I'm presuming that the camera allows manual exposure control on your video: it's well-known that true video and true still photography do not use the same exposure settings for similar circumstances. (As I understand, true video needs a slower shutter to make movement look natural)

One of the reasons DSLR video is so great is that it pushes what can be accomplished with stills as well.



dilbert said:


> Why would anyone want to buy a camera with 4k video?...Chances are you can't display 4k video


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## Sunnystate (Dec 3, 2011)

Considering the circumstances, when prices in the 35 mm class are far exceeding prices for most incredible medium and large format glass from Rodenstock, Zeiss, Shneider, maybe time to revive German camera industry is near?

At some point it has to be profitable to enter digital market by companies with know how to build quality 35mm camera shell, even with electronics developed by somebody else.
How could be possibly justified price for 35mm electronic gadget even in magnesium alloy box to be higher than for example Swiss made, highest quality, space age precision build Sinar instrument?
Let's hope current camera industry will not create cost prohibitive high end professional environment without possibility to enter by people that are serious enough about photography to be the lifetime hobby for them, but don't own really profitable studio to write off the cost.

I owned two large format cameras (four in fact including my two antique collectibles), two twinlens Rolleiflexes, basic still "brand new" Hasselblad system, Fuji medium format compact, some other small 35mm Rolleiflexes, Leicas, and yes least important Canons and/or Nikons cameras only for convenience. 
It was really exciting to have the opportunities after some saving time to be able to afford what the best in the industry are using, learning and enjoying the "real magic" in photography, that people who never used large format camera won't understand.
Than digital cameras come in to the market. 
It started with argument that we are saving on film and processing so the cost of the body is justified, but this argument starts to be bit silly now when we are getting offers with four zeroes in the price tag for the 35mm format systems.
My wish is simple, that serious photography will not be taken away and placed in the hands of any kind of small elites, ending this incredibly exciting process of democratizing photography that we have witnessed in recent years, even for the cost of army frustrated professionals that had no choice, but start learning again to compete. Thank you.


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## briansquibb (Dec 3, 2011)

For movie I would like to see [email protected] so we get real slo-mo


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## Bob Howland (Dec 3, 2011)

dilbert said:


> AG said:
> 
> 
> > 5D mk3 = Could become the "video DSLR" taking the best parts of the C300 and 1DX video and putting that into the 5D3 body. Sure it won't be a C300 but it could possibly do 4K but its stills may suffer because of this.
> ...


People are still watching movies made before 1940. That's over 70 years ago. Is somebody making a movie today supposed to assume that their work has so little artistic merit that nobody will want to watch it, say, 20 years in the future when 4K DVD players and television/monitors will likely not only be available but even common? From what I understand, 4K is the preferred _production_ resolution, even if 2K is the resolution shipped to the movie theater. However, a movie produced in 4K can be re-released in the future in 4K when the viewing hardware catches up.


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## JimKarczewski (Dec 3, 2011)

StevenBrianSamuels said:


> *Canon Buys Mamiya [CR1]*



Oh.. PLEASE Yes, PLEASE

I have 6 Mamiya AF lenses collecting dust. Though canon would probably do something stupid and come out with a new mount system. D'oh.


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## Bob Howland (Dec 3, 2011)

dilbert said:


> Yet people in Hollywood are quite happy using 2k video to supplement 4k movies, today, which tends to support the theory that everyone who is out there making money cares about what is needed for *today* and not some arbitrary point in the future.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_value

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_value

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discounting

Update: This actually explains it better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_rate_of_return

There is also the issue of selecting camera resolution of a $25 million project when the difference in cost of renting/buying 2K vs. 4K camcorders is, for example, $200,000.


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## martyvis (Dec 4, 2011)

*Mirrorless ILC*

I am really amazed that it seems their is no desire for Canon to come out with a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera, of the ILK of the Olympus PENs, Panasonic G-series or the NikonV/J. I love the versatility and portability of my Canon P&S cameras (S2 IS and S60). I enjoy the photography I can achieve with them, despite the technical limitations. While I would like to have the option of having very good low-light and bokeh capability with say a 60D, I'm not sure I want such a big rig, and also the cost of the primes I might need to round out the solution. 

While say stepping up to a G12 or S100 might help out a lot, I really am starting to be besotted with something like a Olympus E-P3. While dpreview is a bit down on it, other review sites and sample images make me think otherwise. I really want something with just a bit more flexibility and a larger sensor than a G12, but not the bulk of a full DSLR. (Some thing like old film Pentax ME-Super). Surely Canon must be crazy to not think there are many others like me


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## Edwin Herdman (Dec 4, 2011)

Canon has not given any specific indication what their target might be for a higher-resolution full frame or medium format camera. Unless I am mistaken, the "10,000s of customers" line is not in the original.


thepancakeman said:


> Since 10,000 is plural, we'll use 20,000 for the short end.


For the love of...

"How many (including 1 x) 10,000s" seems perfectly acceptable, especially in Japanese.

However, the line of the original translation does not read that way. Here are the relevant couple of lines from the original:


> ただ、現時点で明確な計画をお話しできる段階にはありませんが、当然研究はしています。最終的には市場からの要望を見極めて、キヤノンとしてどういったカメラを出すべきなのかを今後考えて行くことになると思います。


I don't see any mention of an actual targeted number. For "10,000s" you would expect to see the character 万 somewhere.

Google's translation:


> "However, in the early to talk about specific plans at this time, but research has naturally. Ultimately assess the market demand, I will go and whether we will reach a camera such as Canon do."



The OCN translation:


> "It isn't in the stage which can speak about a clear plan in the present, but it's being studied of course. I think request from a market will be ascertained finally, and thinks what kind of camera to take out from now on and goes as Canon."



On Keith Cooper's Google+ translation line, a Mr. Ellis Vener has offered a "rough translation." It is there that the "10,000s of customers" line originates. I believe this is just his opinion of their likely business strategy, similar to how I often write what I think Canon is doing or ought to be, but usually I do not put my own words in their mouth.


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## c.d.embrey (Dec 4, 2011)

StevenBrianSamuels said:


> *Canon Buys Mamiya [CR1]*



Mamiya was bought by Phase One. I don't think tat it is for sale.


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## briansquibb (Dec 4, 2011)

*Re: Mirrorless ILC*



dilbert said:


> I'd love to see a NEX-style camera that could take EF mount lenses, either directly or through an adapter like Sony has for their alpha lenses.



Howabout a G series replacement being rangefinder style body - APS-C, EF-S mount, mirrorless with Olympus electronic vewfinder. That would see off Fuji etc - 18mp from the 7D, 2fps.


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## flangad (Dec 5, 2011)

mirroless a niche market? now 20% of market shares in Japan, and still growing!!!

I definitly think that Canon should join micro4/3 consortium.
If they don't have mirorless offer, they will loose a growing (and in the future significant) part of their market.

If they adress this market with one more proprietary solution, they will be "one among many"... they would not get a great visibility on the market.

If they choose micro-4/3, that is in my opinion the best balance betwen compacity (for cam, but also and mostly for lenses) and quality, they would contribute to credibilize and valour the micro 4.3 concept.. and will be "One among only 3 cam manufacturers (Pana, Canon and Oly)"... and this will be a big hurt for other mirroless cam manufacturer who choose proprietary solutions


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