# Friends, help me choose a better one! Thanks



## tomfu (Jul 21, 2012)

hey! i am an actress and intrested in directing. i was planning on buying the t4i since i’ve been told that it is much better for videos. i am looking to shoot short films. now i talked to a friend today and he said with my budget, it would be better to buy the t3i and invest the left over money into the Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM Digital SLR Lens, rather then buying the t4i with the standart or 18-135 mm lens. what do you recommend? i dont understand sh** about cameras to be honest, but am really determined on learning. so i do want to do the best investment with my money in order to be able to progress in the directing field and be able to shoot some nice films. thanks in advance! Aga


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## JasonATL (Jul 21, 2012)

I agree with your friend. The image from the T4i appears to be no better than the T3i (and no worse, either). If this is your primary concern - which it sounds like it is - then I think your friend's advice to go for the lower price camera body and spend some money on a good lens makes a lot of sense. I am also assuming that your friend with whom you have discussed this knows more about your preferences and how you intend to use the camera than I, as a complete stranger, can understand from one paragraph. As you can read in other threads here, my advice could be different if you happen to really want a touch screen and autofocus (and perhaps have other preferences related to still photos). Regardless, the T3i is an excellent camera to start making your own films.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 21, 2012)

Yep, for video ditch the medium variable aperture zooms and go for primes.

T3i body only (I got a canon refurb for silly cheap) get a Samyang 35mm f1.4 or Canon 35mm f2.0 + Canon 50mm f1.8

The macro is a good portrait perspective lens on a T3i, but it's going to be more limiting. Also the design and your money is going more towards a dedicated macro lens, which will be of limited use for general video.

The Samyang lens is full manual, but for video this actually quite a good thing. Be prepared for a steep learning curve, but don't be scared to come back for more advice.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jul 22, 2012)

I'd seriously consider the Panasonic gh2. The body on it will be a bit more expensive than the t3i, but the lenses will be cheaper. Price aside, if you light things properly, it will make the t3i look like a toy, and offer a better image than the 5d3 in many circumstances.


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## Drizzt321 (Jul 25, 2012)

As I'm sure you know as an actress, directing and dp/cinematography are different things. Do you have any friends that have a small video kit already? Camera + basic lighting? Can you see about borrowing it, or 'renting' it for a weekend and shoot a bit and see what you get?

There's a ton more about actually making good quality video, lighting, sound, etc. If you're in the LA area I'm sure you've got to have a few friends, or have friends that know people who do work for shooting video. See if you can tag along with them on one of their projects, or do some PA work and see how things are actually put together.


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## pdirestajr (Jul 25, 2012)

I'd suggest doing some serious research on shooting video with a DSLR first. The main reason these "stills" cameras have become so popular in the "film" world is because of the sensor size, beautiful image quality & availability of so many lenses. What you don't hear so much about is ALL the workarounds needed to accomplish that feat.

You'll also need to invest in: proper stabilization (to avoid jittery images), fluid tripod-head (to help with rolling shutter), an optical/ electronic viewfinder (you need to focus manually off the LCD screen), tons of memory cards (they fill up REALLY FAST at 1080p), batteries (they die fast while on live view), external mic (so you don't hear every little touch of the camera), ND filters (to get the shutter speed down to the proper setting)...

And that is just the bare essential. Then to take it to the next level:

Rod & Rail system, follow-focus unit, gears, matte-box, external audio recorder, more support rigs, and then all the post production needs...

It gets expensive.


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## vuilang (Jul 25, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> I'd suggest doing some serious research on shooting video with a DSLR first. The main reason these "stills" cameras have become so popular in the "film" world is because of the sensor size, beautiful image quality & availability of so many lenses. What you don't hear so much about is ALL the workarounds needed to accomplish that feat.
> 
> You'll also need to invest in: proper stabilization (to avoid jittery images), fluid tripod-head (to help with rolling shutter), an optical/ electronic viewfinder (you need to focus manually off the LCD screen), tons of memory cards (they fill up REALLY FAST at 1080p), batteries (they die fast while on live view), external mic (so you don't hear every little touch of the camera), ND filters (to get the shutter speed down to the proper setting)...
> 
> ...


Read his reply Carefully.... 
and do a search on each item, you'll find the T3i/T4i probably the *Cheapest* thing in the rig to make good film clip


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## Promature (Jul 25, 2012)

I'd suggest two articles written by Roger (owner of LensRentals):
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2009/07/slr-video-accessories
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2011/02/photo-lenses-for-video


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## samueljay (Jul 26, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> I'd suggest doing some serious research on shooting video with a DSLR first. The main reason these "stills" cameras have become so popular in the "film" world is because of the sensor size, beautiful image quality & availability of so many lenses. What you don't hear so much about is ALL the workarounds needed to accomplish that feat.
> 
> You'll also need to invest in: proper stabilization (to avoid jittery images), fluid tripod-head (to help with rolling shutter), an optical/ electronic viewfinder (you need to focus manually off the LCD screen), tons of memory cards (they fill up REALLY FAST at 1080p), batteries (they die fast while on live view), external mic (so you don't hear every little touch of the camera), ND filters (to get the shutter speed down to the proper setting)...
> 
> ...


The T2i is perfectly capable of recording great videos without most of that stuff, agreed it will all help, but it's not necessary for every application, as long as you bring the camera closer to your body and keep it steady. I've never had any trouble focusing off the back LCD, except in bright sunlight. Extra batteries are needed, but Memory Cards don't fill up THAT fast. Especially for short-movie filming, where you're usually only recording a couple minutes at a time. While the on board sound is far from ideal, it can be used, I would recommend getting an external mic. though.


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## Videoshooter (Jul 26, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> I'd suggest doing some serious research on shooting video with a DSLR first. The main reason these "stills" cameras have become so popular in the "film" world is because of the sensor size, beautiful image quality & availability of so many lenses. What you don't hear so much about is ALL the workarounds needed to accomplish that feat.
> 
> You'll also need to invest in: proper stabilization (to avoid jittery images), fluid tripod-head (to help with rolling shutter), an optical/ electronic viewfinder (you need to focus manually off the LCD screen), tons of memory cards (they fill up REALLY FAST at 1080p), batteries (they die fast while on live view), external mic (so you don't hear every little touch of the camera), ND filters (to get the shutter speed down to the proper setting)...
> 
> ...



With the exception of a viewfinder ($30 on ebay) and ND filters, all of that stuff is needed for just about _any_ film or video work with _any_ camcorder. Film-making is expensive no matter what cameras you are using - but DSLR's let you get better images for less money. 

I think the t3i is a great choice for somebody just starting out in video production, espescially narrative film-making. Add a few decent lenses (50mm f/1.4 is a great starting point) and you can get started producing great images.


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## Drizzt321 (Jul 26, 2012)

Videoshooter said:


> Add a few decent lenses (50mm f/1.4 is a great starting point) and you can get started producing great images.



Even the nifty fifty 50mm f/1.8 is pretty good for video on a crop sensor. Maybe throw in the new 40mm f/2.8 (especially if you get a T4i and use the video AF), or one of the cheaper 24/28/30 to go wider.


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## pdirestajr (Jul 26, 2012)

Videoshooter said:


> pdirestajr said:
> 
> 
> > I'd suggest doing some serious research on shooting video with a DSLR first. The main reason these "stills" cameras have become so popular in the "film" world is because of the sensor size, beautiful image quality & availability of so many lenses. What you don't hear so much about is ALL the workarounds needed to accomplish that feat.
> ...



My point was that since the OP said, "I don't know sh** about cameras...", that there are a ton more expenses and things to know besides getting a camera and lens to capture beautiful footage for a short film. Its a good start, but the accessories add up quick and it just needs to be budgeted for. Granted you can get going with minimal gear, but if you want to direct a short film, I don't think showing up on a set with just a rebel and one lens do direct a film is a great move.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 26, 2012)

I'd opt for the T4i and the 40mm STM pancake lens and / or 18-135mm STM lens. This is the first Canon DSLR that will autofocus while doing video, and it is designed to work with the STM lenses which have relatively silent AF motors.
The T3i is not optomized with these lenses. It won't autofocus while doing video, so spending money on a AF lens for video is a waste, no matter which.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 26, 2012)

@pdirestajr


> Rod & Rail system, follow-focus unit, gears, matte-box, external audio recorder, more support rigs



Don't quite agree.

I have a hague stabiliser and a fig rig, both only occassionaly used.

I never got the whole rod & rail and accessories idea. Works great on conventional 2/3rd format camcorder lenses with proper end stops, aperture rings and zooms that hold back focus. One of the greatest things about DSLR shooting _for me_ is the portability. The simple and compact form. The discretion.

I can see the point of follow focus and zoom demands when you are standing behind a large video camera, _I think_ they are almost entirely superfluous when you can touch the focus ring when its a foot away from you.

I don't agree with the external audio recorder unless you have a dedicated sound op, who will have their own preference as to what kit to use and probably provide their own kit as well.

I prefer recording in camera, via a beachtek XLR adaptor. It gives me files I can work with straight away and the sound quality is no worse than what I get from my regular ENG cameras. I'm a great advocate of XLR mics and proper placement etc, but I can't get hung up about AAC's shortcomings when the picture is H264...

Agree with the screen and filters etc.


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## pdirestajr (Jul 26, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> @pdirestajr
> 
> 
> > Rod & Rail system, follow-focus unit, gears, matte-box, external audio recorder, more support rigs
> ...



That's why I said "then to take it to the next level...".

Those item aren't necessary. But again, the OP said they want to "direct short films".


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 26, 2012)

But then that's why I put '_For me_' and '_I think_' in italics.

Broad church. Lots of nuts to be cracked. Lots of different opinions on the hammers to use.
Maybe in the wash an absolute truth will come out. Maybe not.

Be thankful for the marketplace of ideas. 

I didn't say you _were_ wrong. Just that _I think_ you are wrong.


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## preppyak (Jul 26, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'd opt for the T4i and the 40mm STM pancake lens and / or 18-135mm STM lens. This is the first Canon DSLR that will autofocus while doing video, and it is designed to work with the STM lenses which have relatively silent AF motors.
> The T3i is not optomized with these lenses. It won't autofocus while doing video, so spending money on a AF lens for video is a waste, no matter which.


If you're an actor and making movies, you won't be using that AF anyway, as its not any better than pressing the shutter button and letting the camera hunt for focus. Everything is manual focus; they reason to get lenses that AF is if you plan on using the camera for stills as well.

I'll agree with others; get the T3i, get the Samyang lenses, learn to MF and expect a steep learning curve. If you're going to be doing just video work with the camera, start researching legacy lenses (Contax-Zeiss, Nikon AI, etc) as they are much cheaper than the modern Canon equivalents, and they work just fine with adapters for narrative video work.

When you are looking at lenses, you're not looking for what stills people look for. The 50mm f/1.8 has great IQ for its price, but its the worst lens Canon makes for manual focusing, which makes it hard to work with for video. The 40mm has the same limitation (tiny focus ring). That's where the Samyang lenses are so great


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jul 27, 2012)

preppyak said:


> I'll agree with others; get the T3i, get the Samyang lenses, learn to MF and expect a steep learning curve. If you're going to be doing just video work with the camera, start researching legacy lenses (Contax-Zeiss, Nikon AI, etc) as they are much cheaper than the modern Canon equivalents, and they work just fine with adapters for narrative video work.
> 
> When you are looking at lenses, you're not looking for what stills people look for. The 50mm f/1.8 has great IQ for its price, but its the worst lens Canon makes for manual focusing, which makes it hard to work with for video. The 40mm has the same limitation (tiny focus ring). That's where the Samyang lenses are so great



There is no reason to get a t3i instead of a gh2 for video. You'll spend more on lenses for worse quality footage.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 27, 2012)

> There is no reason to get a t3i instead of a gh2 for video. You'll spend more on lenses for worse quality footage.



Can think of four great big reasons:

-sensor size (and effect on DoF, wide angle etc)

-wrong mount

-lack of availability of decent fast aperture lenses (affordable primes and large aperture zooms)

-not as good for stills use

Canon will be making EF lenses in 5, 10 years time. Fourthirds is already dead. How long do you give m43?


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jul 27, 2012)

1. 4/3s is only slightly smaller sensor than aps-c. (22mm vs. 17mm)
2. You can always buy adapters for lenses. 
3. The existing glass out there is cheaper for 4/3.
4. There are plenty of existing lenses with sufficiently tight DOF. 

But don't worry about the specs too much, just do some vimeo searches and look at the work being done on gh2s.

If you are only going to use it for video, there is no excuse not to go gh2. If you want it for stills too, well maybe an argument can be made...


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## syder (Jul 28, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Yep, for video ditch the medium variable aperture zooms and go for primes.
> 
> T3i body only (I got a canon refurb for silly cheap) get a Samyang 35mm f1.4 or Canon 35mm f2.0 + Canon 50mm f1.8



50 1.8 is a terrible video lens. Tiny focus ring, minimal travel. Its not a lens which is designed for manually focussing with. You're far better off getting the 50 1.4 (canon or sigma) or getting an old manual focus 50mm if you need something dirt cheap.

The canon 35mm f2.0 looks similar - the sigma 30mm f1.4 is far better for video (and the extra stop is pretty useful too),

The 35mm f2 and 50mm f1.8 also have five-blade apertures which make out of focus highlights look like pentagons rather than circles.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 28, 2012)

I agree with the concessions to cost re: the nifty 50, but it is exceptional value in a way that the 1.4 50's are not.
Although not by any means the perfect video lens I was trying to keep it cheap and simple.

I would have the samyang 35 over either the Sigma or Canon 50 1.4 anyday.


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## samueljay (Aug 1, 2012)

Used the 50 1.8 for video before I got the 1.2L, was fine, and definitely do-able if you're on a budget! So much bang for buck!


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## Axilrod (Aug 10, 2012)

Are people seriously trying to say there aren't any benefits to using rigs/follow focus/etc.? Come on then why does anyone buy them in the first place? Sure maybe you've spent a few years getting good at it and can get acceptable footage, but do you really think a kid that doesn't know anything about these is going to be able to? I'll tell you this, I've seen it time and time again that people try to shoot handheld with these things and the majority of the time it turns out like crap. It's very difficult to focus on the back screen, it may look in focus when you play it back there but play it on a big screen. And with rolling shutter it just seems dangerous to handhold a T2i in the first place. Unless you're going for that Jason Bourne look I don't think you'll be happy with it. You can have all the shallow DOF in the world but if it isn't stable it's still going to look amateur.


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## paul13walnut5 (Aug 10, 2012)

@Axilrod


> Are people seriously trying to say there aren't any benefits to using rigs/follow focus/etc.?



No. I have 1 rig which is unbeatable when the rare occasion demands it (moving shots down stairs) and a stabilser which is unbeatable when the occassion demands it (like a 360 inverted hand held track)

For the other 99% of occassions I go to my manfrotto video monopod or sachtler ACE tripod.

If by necessity I'm shooting lots of handheld I'll shoot with an ENG camera.


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