# Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 8, 2018)

```
<iframe width="728" height="409" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/c7BG74w0gAw" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p>The folks at Imaging Resource decided to do a weather sealing torture test to help them decide on their favourite camera of 2017. It came down to the Nikon D850 and the Sony A7R III.</p>
<p>For some added fun, they also included two cameras from 2016, the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV and the Olympus E-M1 Mark II.</p>

<p>While the Canon and Olympus passed with flying colors, the Nikon D850 had one minor hiccup that was rectified with the hot shoe cover. However, the Sony had a bit more trouble... the camera stopped working.</p>
<p>Check the video above or read the <a href="http://www.imaging-resource.com/articles/2017-weather-testing-nikon-d850-vs-sony-a7riii-canon-5div-olympus-e-m1II">in-depth review here</a>.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jan 8, 2018)

Surprised about the nikon. Not surprised about the sony.


----------



## woodman411 (Jan 8, 2018)

This mirrors (no pun intended) my observations and experience with build quality: Canon > Nikon > Sony , no experience with Olympus.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 8, 2018)

Real life roshambo: rock > scissors, scissors > paper, paper > rock

CR forum roshambo: Sony sensor > Canon sensor, Canon camera > water, water > Sony camera


----------



## Talys (Jan 8, 2018)

Interesting article, thanks for sharing it 

The takeaway is that if you own an A7RII/III, keep it out of the rain and definitely away from the shoreline (where there might be a mist of salt water). That was only two 15 minute tests -- if you were out there for hours, the Sony would probably be toast. It was particularly bad that the water got into the shutter blades, battery compartment and basically everything else inside. 

If I owned an A7RIII and it got water in it to the degree shown in the article, I'd send it in to be serviced by Sony before using it again. In my opinion, the potential for fires with lithium batteries is just too high. Plus, there may be cavities where water can enter, but which not particularly exposed and are problematic for evaporation.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 8, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Real life roshambo: rock > scissors, scissors > paper, paper > rock
> 
> CR forum roshambo: Sony sensor > Canon sensor, Canon camera > water, water > Sony camera



Ha!


----------



## ecqns (Jan 8, 2018)

Talys said:


> The takeaway is that if you own an A7RII/III, keep it out of the rain and definitely away from the shoreline (where there might be a mist of salt water).



The second test - the persistent mist - was held after the first heavy soaking one, so its fair to say the the camera needed to be dried out more before trying the second test. I've used my Sony a7R and a7RII cameras in misty conditions and never had trouble. So while I wouldn't shoot in heavy rain anyway, I'd say you shouldn't have to worry about a shoreline situation with the Sony cameras.


----------



## jolyonralph (Jan 8, 2018)

I wouldn't dream of taking my A7RII out in anything other than good weather. It's just too risky.

My 5DSR however just survived being outdoor in dreadful rain for days in the Scottish highlands. It coped with the weather far better than I did.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 8, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> This mirrors (no pun intended) my observations and experience with build quality: Canon > Nikon > Sony , no experience with Olympus.



The Olympus build is on par with Canon.... they are tough little cameras!


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 8, 2018)

The sony needs a hole in the bottom to let the water out....


----------



## Karlbug (Jan 8, 2018)

I wonder how lower tiered bodies like 80D or 6DII would handle the test. The 80D probably not.

This is really enlightening to me as I'm planning a trip to Vietnam this summer and I realized I need a WS body... I guess I can strike out the Sony. ;D


----------



## Adelino (Jan 8, 2018)

Can't the Sony 4K just overheat and evaporate the water out?


----------



## Besisika (Jan 8, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Real life roshambo: rock > scissors, scissors > paper, paper > rock
> ...


Ha Ha Ha!


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jan 8, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> The sony needs a hole in the bottom to let the water out....



Or couldn't you just turn it upside down and let it all drain out again..?


----------



## ethanz (Jan 8, 2018)

Adelino said:


> Can't the Sony 4K just overheat and evaporate the water out?



lol. Good idea!


----------



## ethermine (Jan 8, 2018)

No surprises there. They all produce fantastic images, but after watching one of my favorite adventure photographers Chris Burkard laugh about how he's destroyed yet another Sony camera while photographing near water, or rainy conditions, It's made me appreciate my Canon gear all the more for being able to survive all the torture I've subjected them to across the globe. Then again, I'd happily shoot, and I probably wouldn't worry much about my Sony gear getting destroyed if Sony gave me gear like candy.

It would bug me knowing I wouldn't be able to completely rely on my gear under those conditions, though.


----------



## tmroper (Jan 8, 2018)

I took a great portrait workshop once with a retired conflict photographer (retired from the conflict stuff, not photography), and he berated the class for complaining about going out in the rain to go find people on the street to shoot. Many, I think, were worried their precious, expensive cameras might get damaged. But clients/editors don't care one bit about your weather excuses, and that's what he was trying to impart. For some photographers, both they and their gear need to be as weather-resistant as possible.


----------



## woodman411 (Jan 8, 2018)

ethermine said:


> No surprises there. They all produce fantastic images, but after watching one of my favorite adventure photographers Chris Burkard laugh about how he's destroyed yet another Sony camera while photographing near water, or rainy conditions, It's made me appreciate my Canon gear all the more for being able to survive all the torture I've subjected them to across the globe. Then again, I'd happily shoot, and I probably wouldn't worry much about my Sony gear getting destroyed if Sony gave me gear like candy.
> 
> It would bug me knowing I wouldn't be able to completely rely on my gear under those conditions, though.



You can't rely on Sony when it's hot (overheating). You can't rely on Sony when it's wet (weather sealing). You can't rely on Sony for shooting stars (star eating). You can't rely on Sony for studio work (stopped-down focusing). What's next?


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 8, 2018)

tmroper said:


> I took a great portrait workshop once with a retired conflict photographer (retired from the conflict stuff, not photography), and he berated the class for complaining about going out in the rain to go find people on the street to shoot. Many, I think, were worried their precious, expensive cameras might get damaged. But clients/editors don't care one bit about your weather excuses, and that's what he was trying to impart. For some photographers, both they and their gear need to be as weather-resistant as possible.



And that is why I carry a 7D2 and an Olympus tough for when it really gets nasty..... any camera with three underwater modes laughs at a little rain!


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 8, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> ethermine said:
> 
> 
> > No surprises there. They all produce fantastic images, but after watching one of my favorite adventure photographers Chris Burkard laugh about how he's destroyed yet another Sony camera while photographing near water, or rainy conditions, It's made me appreciate my Canon gear all the more for being able to survive all the torture I've subjected them to across the globe. Then again, I'd happily shoot, and I probably wouldn't worry much about my Sony gear getting destroyed if Sony gave me gear like candy.
> ...



You can't rely on Sony. PERIOD!


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 8, 2018)

Canon's tired old camera still doesn't leak. Ugh!!! Sony innovates and you get a built in canteen. If you've been shooting 4k it'll make you hot cocoa too.


----------



## Click (Jan 9, 2018)

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Woody (Jan 9, 2018)

Not surprised by the results.

It's a Sony.


----------



## In-The-Dark (Jan 9, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> The sony needs a hole in the bottom to let the water out....



The drain plug could be mighty expensive ;D.


----------



## camerone (Jan 9, 2018)

I don’t have experience with any of the really high end Canon bodies , but my 6D has held up magnificently to wet (and cold) weather magnificently (with weather-sealed lenses of course). Multiple times I’ve almost expected it to fail but it pulled through. Not sure I would trust a Sony though, even before seeing this video...


----------



## amorse (Jan 9, 2018)

That was enlightening, but not all-together unexpected! I recently used my relatively new 5D IV in complete downpour for at least 45 minutes without break and I was genuinely concerned that the camera may not be able to deal with it. Needless to say, the camera was fine and showed no evidence of damage. I, however, looked like a drowned rat.

I can't help but draw parallels between shooting in ever wetter conditions to seeing how empty you can continue to drive on a tank of gas. Eventually you'll go too far, but then it'll be too late. Except one is a more expensive error than the other I guess.


----------



## Talys (Jan 9, 2018)

camerone said:


> I don’t have experience with any of the really high end Canon bodies , but my 6D has held up magnificently to wet (and cold) weather magnificently (with weather-sealed lenses of course). Multiple times I’ve almost expected it to fail but it pulled through. Not sure I would trust a Sony though, even before seeing this video...



6DII, as well. This winter, I got caught a few times where the weather turned very quickly, and I decided to just stay out. My 6DII and 70-200/2.8 and 100-400LII have both made it through Vancouver rain looking a whole lot better than I did. I gave it a pretty good once-over to check to see if there was any water in the camera, and there was none at all.

Now, mind you, if I had been carrying a camera that was known to be a poor water performer, I would have tucked and run


----------



## hne (Jan 9, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> The sony needs a hole in the bottom to let the water out....



It probably has. Roger Cicala did a teardown of a water damaged A7sII and noted there was no sealing on half the battery door. That'd be to let out the water that can pour in around the non-sealed front wheel, I guess.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/10/about-getting-your-camera-wet-teardown-of-a-salty-sony-a7sii/


----------



## Maximilian (Jan 9, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> This mirrors (no pun intended) my observations and experience with build quality: Canon > Nikon > Sony , no experience with Olympus.


I can remember (but didn't find it anymore) an Oly add spot where they took a camera (was it a E3?) under a shower. 
Really heavy rain simulation. 
Wouldn't do that with my 5D3. 

By the way:
An A9 would have been more interesting, as this is the dedicated heavy duty (Sports, wildlife) Sony.
But I suppose their sealings to be equal.


----------



## Maximilian (Jan 9, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> You can't rely on Sony. PERIOD!


LOL 

That simplifies it to the essence.


----------



## bhf3737 (Jan 9, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> You can't rely on Sony when it's hot (overheating). You can't rely on Sony when it's wet (weather sealing). You can't rely on Sony for shooting stars (star eating). You can't rely on Sony for studio work (stopped-down focusing). What's next?



Look at the bright side. It is a perfect travel companion. You don't need to take a water bottle, Sony does that for you! You can also use it to steam iron your wrinkled jacket after taking a few test shots in rain!!


----------



## Ryananthony (Jan 9, 2018)

I would have loved to see the comments here if canon was the only one who failed. ;D


----------



## mb66energy (Jan 9, 2018)

Maybe it has advantages to be conservative and innovate a little bit more slowly. I prefer real tools which usually are a little bit conservative and evolve with moderate speed.

This test shows who has reliable TOOLS and who not.


----------



## Maximilian (Jan 9, 2018)

Ryananthony said:


> I would have loved to see the comments here if canon was the only one who failed. ;D


My comment would have been: 
_Canon, go back to the drawing board, do your job and fix it! _

But they did their job well in first, because they knew what matters 8)


----------



## IglooEater (Jan 9, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> If you've been shooting 4k it'll make you hot cocoa too.



LOL!


----------



## IglooEater (Jan 9, 2018)

Ryananthony said:


> I would have loved to see the comments here if canon was the only one who failed. ;D



That indeed would have been most interesting! . Personally, I would have been shocked.


----------



## IglooEater (Jan 9, 2018)

I would have liked to see a full tear-down after the wetting, there could be a whole lot of water inside that we can’t see by just looking at the sensor and battery compartment.


----------



## Larsskv (Jan 9, 2018)

mb66energy said:


> Maybe it has advantages to be conservative and innovate a little bit more slowly. I prefer real tools which usually are a little bit conservative and evolve with moderate speed.
> 
> This test shows who has reliable TOOLS and who not.



+1!


----------



## Larsskv (Jan 9, 2018)

I wonder whether or not DPReview will refer to this test, and if they do, how they present it... My guess is. It at all, or downplay the importance of it.


----------



## Hflm (Jan 9, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> woodman411 said:
> 
> 
> > ethermine said:
> ...


That is pretty much nonsense. 

I shot 5div and Sony A9 in parallel last year, having had many rainy wedding days without any problem at all. 
And if the rain is too heavy, I wouldn't want to shoot at all. Majority of couples wouldn't anyway, too. But for the situations I had to, it worked flawlessly.

Drawing such a general conclusion is usual fanboy gibberish.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have EM1-II like weather resistance for every product.


----------



## Chaitanya (Jan 9, 2018)

Talys said:


> Interesting article, thanks for sharing it
> 
> The takeaway is that if you own an A7RII/III, keep it out of the rain and definitely away from the shoreline (where there might be a mist of salt water). That was only two 15 minute tests -- if you were out there for hours, the Sony would probably be toast. It was particularly bad that the water got into the shutter blades, battery compartment and basically everything else inside.
> 
> If I owned an A7RIII and it got water in it to the degree shown in the article, I'd send it in to be serviced by Sony before using it again. In my opinion, the potential for fires with lithium batteries is just too high. Plus, there may be cavities where water can enter, but which not particularly exposed and are problematic for evaporation.


Not just A7R3 but any Sony camera doesnt go well with humid weather, even A9 falls in this category.


----------



## Woody (Jan 9, 2018)

Larsskv said:


> I wonder whether or not DPReview will refer to this test, and if they do, how they present it... My guess is. It at all, or downplay the importance of it.



They'll pretend they have never heard of it.


----------



## woodman411 (Jan 9, 2018)

Hflm said:


> That is pretty much nonsense.
> 
> I shot 5div and Sony A9 in parallel last year, having had many rainy wedding days without any problem at all.
> And if the rain is too heavy, I wouldn't want to shoot at all. Majority of couples wouldn't anyway, too. But for the situations I had to, it worked flawlessly.
> ...



Who's the fanboy? It can't be you - the one that takes his own personal experience as gospel by calling the other "nonsense", and then calling a camera in a wedding shoot "flawless". Use it like a pro, meaning, think of taking the "money" shot, shots that people look at and say "wow, I would pay for that". When you shoot like that, you'll find *every* camera has flaws/limitations/quirks. And you'll sound more like Sung Park or Jeff Titterington, you know, real pros who have used Sony for money shots: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59526785


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 9, 2018)

Hflm said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > woodman411 said:
> ...


Yes, I am a Fanboy!

I am a Fanboy of Olympus for their weather sealing and innovation. Best crop camera lineup PERIOD!

I am a Fanboy of Canon for their user interface, service department, and reliability.

I am a fanboy of Nikon for the feature set on their higher end cameras.

I am a Fanboy of both Nikon and Canon for their glass.

I am a fanboy of Sony for Betamax.... sorry, nothing newer than that catches my eye....


BTW, as a "pro", one should realize that cameras are a tool, and if you use them hard, they will break. Sony has a reputation as the worst camera maker for service.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jan 9, 2018)

angrykarl said:


> I wonder how lower tiered bodies like 80D or 6DII would handle the test. The 80D probably not.
> 
> This is really enlightening to me as I'm planning a trip to Vietnam this summer and I realized I need a WS body... I guess I can strike out the Sony. ;D


Ive had a Canon 6D out in some quite shocking weather on Dartmoor and its been just as good as my 5DS. Ive not had the 6D MKII out in anything other than misty mornings so far so its too hard to tell given its now got the flippy screen. 

My Olympus OMD-EM10 has survived a sudden and quite torrential rain storm in the summer of 2017 and came through in flying colours. I remember at the last Photokina Olympus had one of the OMD-EM1 cameras in a case with running water, Ive never seen Sony do the same.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 9, 2018)

jeffa4444 said:


> angrykarl said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder how lower tiered bodies like 80D or 6DII would handle the test. The 80D probably not.
> ...



Oly has the best sealing, and it is across the entire line. I was at a show once where they had an aquarium set up and a couple of their P/S cameras sitting in the bottom. People would reach in and take underwater pictures of the fish....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 9, 2018)

Woody said:


> Larsskv said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder whether or not DPReview will refer to this test, and if they do, how they present it... My guess is. It at all, or downplay the importance of it.
> ...



Probably, but we'll see. After all, DPR claims to be unbiased. A forum member started a thread on the IR results:



> I found this video quite interesting:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7BG74w0gAw
> *The Sony fared reasonably well,* but it is still behind the competition.



He sounds about as unbiased as Rishi. :


----------



## woodman411 (Jan 9, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > Larsskv said:
> ...



Review sites are all about equalizing the competition, so that they themselves are more relevant. Consistency is their enemy, including consistent stalwarts, like Canon, since consistency negates the need for review sites. They will use Nikon to push the specs-for-value advantage, and they will use Sony to push the dynamic-range/sensor advantage, until they can convince you that all the pros and cons equalize, and that you have to read their reviews to see who comes out on top. It is not necessarily evil, but it is not honest either. Self-interest. What a shock 

PS - there are a few exceptions, the most notable being Consumer Reports, who not surprisingly get hammered by other review sites for their consistency in placing a particular brand on top (and therefore minimizing the relevancy of other review sites).


----------



## kingrobertii (Jan 9, 2018)

I've shot in some pretty nasty weather with my 5D IV. It is nice to watch a torture test to know my gear will hold up


----------



## Hflm (Jan 9, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> Hflm said:
> 
> 
> > That is pretty much nonsense.
> ...


LOL. Your posts show your bias and getting personal doesn't help.

I use Sony for quite some time now and shot several weddings where it strongly rained, as well as other jobs, too. I have the first hand experience, used other gear and still shoot a 5div as a second body. If one believed you and others, the camera shouldn't be reliable _at all_, considering your claims and others posts. 

It is a difference stating that a camera is less weather sealed etc. compared to others (I have no problem admitting this) vs. making absolute statements, which you and Haines did. 
That is the prototypical fanboy method. 

It is clear, too, that I wouldn't purposedly drain my gear or leave it in heavy rain. Sounds pretty stupid to do so.


----------



## Hflm (Jan 9, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Hflm said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


As I thought and you mad the very clear. 
I find the newer Sony lenses extremely good, superior in many aspects to Canons counterparts in the metrics important to me, with the exception of the 35/1.4ii, which I adore (only problem this lens has is flares occuring when shooting contre jour).



Don Haines said:


> BTW, as a "pro", one should realize that cameras are a tool, and if you use them hard, they will break. Sony has a reputation as the worst camera maker for service.


Of course I can make them break. But usually I don't need to and try not to. My experience with Sony service is very good. Might be because I get serviced in Germany. But Sony introduced Pro-Service recently which I find pretty reliable and fast so far. 

In fact, my personal experience with Nikon is much worse and if you read Thom Hogan's Nikon blog there seems to be accumulating evidence that Nikon is getting bad at servicing gear and trying to safe money here. Could be due to Nikon's financial problems, who knows.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 9, 2018)

Hflm said:


> Of course I can make them break. But usually I don't need to and try not to. My experience with Sony service is very good. Might be because I get serviced in Germany. But Sony introduced Pro-Service recently which I find pretty reliable and fast so far.
> 
> In fact, my personal experience with Nikon is much worse and if you read Thom Hogan's Nikon blog there seems to be accumulating evidence that Nikon is getting bad at servicing gear and trying to safe money here. Could be due to Nikon's financial problems, who knows.



I have been required to shoot under some very nasty conditions... such as salt spray and -60C (Resolute NWT Canada is a fine place to work in February). This can be a very fast death for an unsealed camera. For home, the main reason I went for a 7D2 was the sealing... for some of us, it is the most important factor in deciding on a camera.

It will be interesting to see how the "Pro Service" works out..... Service was one of their greatest weaknesses, it is nice to see them working on it....

Ultimately, we make personal choices. There is no "one answer for all", our differing needs and preferences give us different answers. For me, when it comes down to a question of small and portable, yet with decent quality, I like Olympus..... but for normal shooting I find glass and ergonomics far more important, and that's why I went Canon. I find Sony to be somewhere in the middle.


----------



## dak723 (Jan 9, 2018)

Augh...the Sony fans are upset because their favorite camera doesn't match the competition in a very important aspect. Not surprising. Of course, this doesn't mean your camera will be damaged in less severe conditions. Of course, this means you may never have a problem. But for many folks this "weakness' is important and amply demonstrates what many here who have tried the Sony FF cameras have repeatedly stated. That innovation isn't everything. That DR isn't everything. That some things are more important, such as weather sealing, ergonomics, getting the basics right (color, exposure) that Sony hasn't done well yet. It's not surprising that if you put your priorities in one place (lots of specs) that you will probably lag in other areas - and that is what many of us have found with the Sony FF cameras. Everyone should get the camera that they feel works best for them - and stop all the usual nonsense (Canon is years behind, Canon needs to innovate more, Canon is ******* because they can't match Sony, etc.) Thank goodness Canon doesn't match Sony in many areas.


----------



## Larsskv (Jan 9, 2018)

Sony has done some strange things in terms of weather sealing. Have a look at this tear down:

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/12/sony-fe-35mm-f1-4-za-lens-teardown/

From the summary:

“This lens has the most rubber gaskets I’ve ever seen. The weather and dust resistance in the lens itself should be superb. I’m still concerned that there is not rubber gasket where the lens mounts to the camera or under the bayonet mount. I would suggest, therefore, if you’re taking this out in weather a little additional seal at the lens-to-camera mount would be a good idea. A thick, snug, rubber band would probably do the trick, or a plastic bag around the camera and lens mount. Other than the mount, I think the rest of the lens would be fine in a hurricane. I’m always cynical about weather sealing, but this lens is amazing in that regard.”


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 9, 2018)

Nutty question, seeing that D850 hot shoe cover -- does my 5D3 need a hot shoe cover or my 600EX-RT attached for the body to remain sealed? Is a naked hot shoe a potential path of fluid ingress?

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 9, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Nutty question, seeing that D850 hot shoe cover -- does my 5D3 need a hot shoe cover or my 600EX-RT attached for the body to remain sealed? Is a naked hot shoe a potential path of fluid ingress?
> 
> - A



I believe that they are not needed with Canon.....


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jan 9, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Nutty question, seeing that D850 hot shoe cover -- does my 5D3 need a hot shoe cover or my 600EX-RT attached for the body to remain sealed? Is a naked hot shoe a potential path of fluid ingress?
> 
> - A



Not a source of fluid ingress into the camera body itself, but a potential option for electrical issues, I would say, if water gets into the contacts between camera and flash and you then operate the flash (and I don't think the 600EX-RT itself is particularly water resistant in heavy conditions.)


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 9, 2018)

StoicalEtcher said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Nutty question, seeing that D850 hot shoe cover -- does my 5D3 need a hot shoe cover or my 600EX-RT attached for the body to remain sealed? Is a naked hot shoe a potential path of fluid ingress?
> ...



This would be a good time for a bounce umbrella


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jan 9, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> StoicalEtcher said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Ha ha - I like it!


----------



## old-pr-pix (Jan 9, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Ultimately, we make personal choices. There is no "one answer for all", our differing needs and preferences give us different answers. For me, when it comes down to a question of small and portable, yet with decent quality, I like Olympus..... but for normal shooting I find glass and ergonomics far more important, and that's why I went Canon. I find Sony to be somewhere in the middle.


Totally agree. I went with Olympus for its sealing. I've had my Oly E-M5 in terrible rain storms. Only issue I found was I couldn't use AF since it would try to focus on individual raindrops between me and intended subject! I kept my Canon gear for 'serious' work although the latest generation of Oly PRO lenses is fully the equal of Canon L glass for IQ (within abilities of smaller m43 sensor).

They all have weather sealing limits though. Just reference the forum favorite Tony Northrup's story about his two 5DIII's wiped out by a flash storm. It's all on video as they tried to protect the cameras. (Video taken by Panasonic GH4 that survived the storm.)


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 9, 2018)

old-pr-pix said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Ultimately, we make personal choices. There is no "one answer for all", our differing needs and preferences give us different answers. For me, when it comes down to a question of small and portable, yet with decent quality, I like Olympus..... but for normal shooting I find glass and ergonomics far more important, and that's why I went Canon. I find Sony to be somewhere in the middle.
> ...


Apparently, in Canon land, the 1DX2 is the best sealed camera, closely followed by the 7D2..... the latest Olys are supposed to be equivalent..... better sealed than the 5 series!


----------



## midluk (Jan 9, 2018)

I was out shooting in heavy rain only once, but at that time I had less concern about damage to my 5D4 than to my 100-400 II. You simply can't properly seal a lens that sucks air in every time you zoom. Everything went fine, though.


----------



## peters (Jan 9, 2018)

I always liked the build quality from Canon, but Nikon is reeeealy great as well. I think the 800d line feels even a little bit better and even studier than the 5d line from Canon. 

No surprise on the Sony. But I wonder why this is? The buttons and dials etc. must be as easily sealable as every other button on another button. 

The way sony listens to the customers makes me think, that this will be adressed in the a7r4. 
With the a7r3 hey fixed very much issues of the a7r2: much better battery, better menus, extra joystick, touchscreen... I think better weather sealing and a better grip may be included in the a7r4.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 9, 2018)

peters said:


> The way sony listens to the customers makes me think, that this will be adressed in the a7r4.
> With the a7r3 hey fixed very much issues of the a7r2: much better battery, better menus, extra joystick, touchscreen... I think better weather sealing and a better grip may be included in the a7r4.



Except that people complained about the poor sealing of the a7RII, and Sony responded with the a7RIII. Maybe the forthcoming a7Sieve III will have better sealing.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2018)

midluk said:


> I was out shooting in heavy rain only once, but at that time I had less concern about damage to my 5D4 than to my 100-400 II. You simply can't properly seal a lens that sucks air in every time you zoom. Everything went fine, though.



That’s one of the reasons I like the 70-200F4...... constant length! No pumping damp air through it.....


----------



## Valvebounce (Jan 10, 2018)

Hi midluk. 
I was surprised the other day, I was out shooting with my 100-400II and I zoomed out (shortened the lens) fast, the draught out of the camera body on to my face really caught me by surprise,  it made me miss my shot as I wondered what had happened! ???
I’m guessing the lens is pretty well sealed against rain if the air in it has to get out through the camera! I don’t know if the act of zooming in draws air (water) in through the body or directly in to the lens!  

Cheers, Graham. 



midluk said:


> I was out shooting in heavy rain only once, but at that time I had less concern about damage to my 5D4 than to my 100-400 II. You simply can't properly seal a lens that sucks air in every time you zoom. Everything went fine, though.


----------



## Sporgon (Jan 10, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maybe the forthcoming a7Sieve III will have better sealing.



;D

Is that what the "s" stands for ? I hope it's not the same on my 5Ds


----------



## Etienne (Jan 10, 2018)

This is worrisome for the A7rIII, a camera that I have been considering. 
These test results are a persuasive argument in favor of the 5D4.
Time to rethink ... again .


----------



## old-pr-pix (Jan 10, 2018)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi midluk.
> I was surprised the other day, I was out shooting with my 100-400II and I zoomed out (shortened the lens) fast, the draught out of the camera body on to my face really caught me by surprise,  it made me miss my shot as I wondered what had happened! ???
> I’m guessing the lens is pretty well sealed against rain if the air in it has to get out through the camera! I don’t know if the act of zooming in draws air (water) in through the body or directly in to the lens!
> 
> Cheers, Graham.


Panasonic learned that you can seal a lens too well. Quickly zooming their 100-400 is impossible. The sealing is so tight that changing FL either creates a vacuum or compresses air inside the lens making it very hard to move the zoom ring. Their national rep. told me it can take months for the seals to 'wear in' and allow smooth zooming. Canon seems to have the 'Goldilocks' solution - at least on my 100-400 Mk I if I want it tighter I just turn the 'smooth-tight' ring a bit.


----------



## ecqns (Jan 10, 2018)

Etienne said:


> This is worrisome for the A7rIII, a camera that I have been considering.
> These test results are a persuasive argument in favor of the 5D4.
> Time to rethink ... again .



A friend of mine just returned from 2 weeks in Thailand with his Sony a7r2 and reported no problems in the heat, humidity and sudden rainstorms there. He said the camera was drenched a few times.


----------



## Larsskv (Jan 10, 2018)

ecqns said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > This is worrisome for the A7rIII, a camera that I have been considering.
> ...



I guess it takes some time before the corrosion damage kicks in...


----------



## NancyP (Jan 10, 2018)

No mention of Pentax, though - those cameras, including the medium format 645Z, are full-on water-resistant when their water-resistant line of lenses is used. Pentax would be the ideal kayaking/canoeing SLR - I have seen situations where the camera has gone overboard or gotten soaked in the bottom of the kayak/canoe and keeps on shooting fine. Not that I would give up on a dry box/bag for storing camera and lenses inside kayak/canoe ...

Most of us on land can do just fine with lesser degrees of water resistance. I admit that I am not too comfortable taking my Canon SLR on a kayak, though I see other more skilled kayakers do so, including using long telephotos for birding (that I am not set up to do yet, not having a long tele with IS, just the 400 f/5.6L no-IS).


----------



## ecqns (Jan 10, 2018)

Larsskv said:


> ecqns said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



did you read the original article? The Sony even returned to working order after drying out, I think people here didn't read and are assuming it was dead. I think the issue with the test was having the cameras set totally level so water pooled on the top case. Of course its unfortunate water got in but highly unlikely in real life situations to be using the camera in a downpour like that perfectly level. Used handheld water wouldn't have pooled like that. The author says in the conclusion and comments he still fully recommends it as one of the best cameras you can buy. I shoot Sony but not in conditions like that, so I choose the best tool for my job - and that requires high dynamic range.


----------



## midluk (Jan 10, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> midluk said:
> 
> 
> > I was out shooting in heavy rain only once, but at that time I had less concern about damage to my 5D4 than to my 100-400 II. You simply can't properly seal a lens that sucks air in every time you zoom. Everything went fine, though.
> ...


My 70-200 had a defective rubber seal at the mount at that time, so I didn't use it.
And it started to rain right when the action was about to start, so there was no time to put the rain cover around camera and lens.
At home the extending part of the lens was wet on the outside multiple times when doing retract-extend-dry cycles.
For some days afterwards I regularly caused an air exchange by retracting and extending the lens multiple times to make sure any internal moisture can dry.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2018)

ecqns said:


> Larsskv said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it takes some time before the corrosion damage kicks in...
> ...



Did you read Larsskv's post? I think you didn't and are assuming the camera that started working again won't stop working at some point in the future as a direct but delayed result of the water ingress.

In case you aren't aware, that's a common occurrence with water ingress into electronics. When the water is present, contacts are short-circuited and the device doesn't work. Then, once the water has evaporated, the device resumes normal function. However, unless the water was lab-grade ultra pure (the stuff coming from a sprinkler or falling from the sky isn't), the water exposure and the trace salts left behind after it evaporates (or not trace, in the case of salt water exposure) begin the process of corrosion, which progresses inexorably over a period of weeks and months. When the corrosion becomes severe enough, the device fails again...that time, permanently.


----------



## Talys (Jan 10, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> ecqns said:
> 
> 
> > Larsskv said:
> ...



Corrosion to the camera parts, plus, I'd be too worried about something catastrophic happening internally within the lithium battery. It wasn't just a couple of drops of water that got into the battery chamber.

I don't know if it's possible that corrosion inside the battery could lead to something horrible, but I'd rather not find out.


----------



## woodman411 (Jan 10, 2018)

ecqns said:


> Larsskv said:
> 
> 
> > ecqns said:
> ...



There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum. These defenders are not enlightening anyone, they are just highlighting their insecurities (love how dynamic range is mentioned in a thread about weather sealing, sigh).


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 10, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum...



I pump the partisan brakes on these things -- this 'test' (or whatever you want to call it) is simply one of many pieces of information we have to peg how far Sony has / has not come by 2018.

I think some of us (myself to some degree) tend to think of Sony as this fanboy-pleasing machine that just spits out the core high-level horsepower spec stuff that people first look to when assessing value in a camera system. And in fairness to them, Sony is pretty damn good at either nailing a deliverable (sensors of course, but throughput of late as well) or steadily making Borg-like constant improvements in other areas (AF, third party lens use with AF, feature-based upgrades like IBIS, 4K, etc.). Sony are not idiots, and in some areas what they deliver is pretty damn impressive. 

But they also can lay an egg in performance area Canon and Nikon may have put to bed a decade ago. In a nutshell, that is the blessing and curse that is Sony.

Why this video -- and the premise of potentially less-than-great weathersealing -- is so interesting is that it underscores a long-held belief that *if it doesn't make the front-page headlines of the spec sheet, Sony isn't investing much to improve it*, i.e. if it's not something big like FPS, MP, pure sensor quality, a bullet point spec on the B&H product listing (IBIS, # AF points, Eye AF, 4K, etc.), Sony might not be investing as much effort / time / cost as they should there.

Consider: there is no top-15 spec bullet point list that ever speaks to:


How it feels in your hands from a long day of shooting with fast glass
How the controls are / are not thoughtfully laid out
How reliable and well-serviced the product is (shutter durability ratings are only a drop in the bucket here)
...add any plurality of things you care about here...

So I wouldn't pile on a Sony person defending their product -- I'm just absorbing what these rigs can / can't do and make informed purchasing decisions. My take home from this is that Sony's sealing may be a weak link, that's all. (I'll keep that in the back of mind if Canon makes us wait another 1-2 years for FF mirrorless and a hot new Sony arrives -- if we only see the Pros of what a hot new product offers, the Cons we probably should have seen coming will likely bite us in the a--.)

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> So I wouldn't pile on a Sony person defending their product -- I'm just absorbing what these rigs can / can't do and make informed purchasing decisions. My take home from this is that Sony's sealing may be a weak link, that's all. (I'll keep that in the back of mind if Canon makes us wait another 1-2 years for FF mirrorless and a hot new Sony arrives -- if we only see the Pros of what a hot new product offers, the Cons we probably should have seen coming will likely bite us in the a--.)



I agree. Every product has it's plusses and it has it's minuses. Some things are easy to quantify (such as Mpixels or FPS) and reporting on them is simple, and they quickly find their way to the top of a review. Other items, such as "feel" and "user interface" are more nebulous in nature and there are (rightly) differences of opinion as to the value or impact of them, and as a result, we are less likely to see it mentioned in a review.

Quite often, reviews are done with sample cameras from the manufacturer.... a camera that has to be returned to the manufacturer..... a camera that has to be returned IN A WORKING CONDITION to the manufacturer.... and this means that your typical reviewer is not going to risk destroying that camera in order to do a review. 

For many of us, we will never use our cameras under such conditions so it really does not matter what the sealing is. For others of us, we are shooting in the rain because our job demands it... and in the winter our cameras go through severe thermal swings. For those people, sealing and "toughness" are of paramount importance and we select our gear accordingly.

BTW, I spent about 90 minutes outside today with the work 7D and 70-200F4 in a freezing rain storm. There was ice caked on the top of it when I was done. It survived..... again.....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> For others of us, we are shooting in the rain *because our job demands it*... and in the winter our cameras go through severe thermal swings. For those people, sealing and "toughness" are of paramount importance and we select our gear accordingly.



Or because we want to be out there.


----------



## ecqns (Jan 11, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum. These defenders are not enlightening anyone, they are just highlighting their insecurities (love how dynamic range is mentioned in a thread about weather sealing, sigh).



This is like talking to foxnews online commenters sometimes.
I am here because I used to use Canon DSLRs but still use EF lenses (TS-Es). If Nikon comes out with a wider than 17mm TS-E I would check out a Nikon body b/c they have great DR like the Sonys. I use the best tool for what my job requires. It does not require shooting in a downpour but it does require high DR. I only jumped in this thread b/c I've used the Sonys' in misty conditions over the years and have not had an issue with water at all. The Sony mist test was flawed b/c it already took in water in the downpour test. So they should have tested them from light mist to heavy rain. I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.

My first work cameras were a Pentax 67 and a Calumet view camera so that's where I'm coming from.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2018)

ecqns said:


> I use the best tool for what my job requires. It does not require shooting in a downpour but it does require high DR.



So, 13.5 stops of DR and you keep your job, but 12.6 stops of DR and you're fired. Makes sense. 




ecqns said:


> The Sony mist test was flawed b/c it already took in water in the downpour test. So they should have tested them from light mist to heavy rain.



Exactly. Because in the real world, rain always follows mist, but mist never follows rain. That makes even more sense!


----------



## woodman411 (Jan 11, 2018)

ecqns said:


> woodman411 said:
> 
> 
> > There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum. These defenders are not enlightening anyone, they are just highlighting their insecurities (love how dynamic range is mentioned in a thread about weather sealing, sigh).
> ...



This thread is about weather sealing. Not about dynamic range, not about Nikon, your work, Pentax, or Calumet. This is about insecurity expressed through these irrelevant details, mixed with a condescending tone ("I choose the best tool"), posted on a CANON forum, to do what? The thin veneer of enlightenment doesn't hide too well the agenda that DPR/Rishi and their followers are pushing.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 11, 2018)

ecqns said:


> I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.



I also use my equipment as tools, but prefer to get the tool that can survive the job..... but then again, we obviously have different requirements......


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 11, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Did you read Larsskv's post? I think you didn't and are assuming the camera that started working again won't stop working at some point in the future as a direct but delayed result of the water ingress.
> 
> In case you aren't aware, that's a common occurrence with water ingress into electronics. When the water is present, contacts are short-circuited and the device doesn't work. Then, once the water has evaporated, the device resumes normal function. However, unless the water was lab-grade ultra pure (the stuff coming from a sprinkler or falling from the sky isn't), the water exposure and the trace salts left behind after it evaporates (or not trace, in the case of salt water exposure) begin the process of corrosion, which progresses inexorably over a period of weeks and months. When the corrosion becomes severe enough, the device fails again...that time, permanently.



We had a bunch of “sealed” satellite phones that we used in areas without cell coverage. The sealing was not good, they misted over from internal condensation and died. After drying out in the lab they came back to life, but within a year, they were all permanently dead. 

Any camera which does not have the sealing to pass that shower test, is a fair weather toy.


----------



## Talys (Jan 12, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> ecqns said:
> 
> 
> > I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.
> ...



There's also a question of cost. I guarantee that any one of the cameras tested that has failed due to internal water damage will not be cheap to fix.



Don Haines said:


> Any camera which does not have the sealing to pass that shower test, is a fair weather toy.



I'm probably as fair weather as they come; I don't really like activities in the rain, and won't seek to do it for photography. Any time I go to the lake or for a hike it will be on a nice day. But sometimes it happens, even if 99% of my photography is indoors or on clear days. On the odd time that I want to be out there, or that I simply just get caught out in the rain (it can change pretty quick where I live), I really don't want to worry about is whether my thousands-of-dollars gear will survive.


----------



## Neil1000 (Jan 12, 2018)

Throughout my Canon days I kept a $6 pair of Optech rainsleeves in my bag - they cope with tropical rain. I have them available for my Sony a7r3 should the need arise.


----------



## dak723 (Jan 14, 2018)

Talys said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > ecqns said:
> ...



Quite frankly, if Sony paid so little attention to the weather sealing, I would be very apprehensive as to the build quality of everything else.


----------



## Larsskv (Jan 14, 2018)

The irony here is Sony’s marketing. On the front page on Sony.coms page of the A7RIII, they provide this statement:

“Refine your sense of reality with α7R III — an ideal partner offering superior speed, high-resolution imaging, pro-class operability, and reliable performance even under harsh conditions.”

https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7rm3

They truly do live up to their marketing claims... :


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 14, 2018)

Neil1000 said:


> Throughout my Canon days I kept a $6 pair of Optech rainsleeves in my bag - they cope with tropical rain. I have them available for my Sony a7r3 should the need arise.



I carry an umbrella on "iffy" days... Even though I know my gear is well sealed, it makes me feel better.....


----------



## Talys (Jan 16, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Neil1000 said:
> 
> 
> > Throughout my Canon days I kept a $6 pair of Optech rainsleeves in my bag - they cope with tropical rain. I have them available for my Sony a7r3 should the need arise.
> ...



I live in Vancouver. Three quarters of the year, I have an umbrella with me


----------

