# Lens recommendations for fashion photography (catwalk)



## ereka (Jan 7, 2012)

Scenario:

I've been invited (along with about 30 other photographers!) to an Off Schedule Fashion Show during London Fashion Week in February. Unpaid, but apparently the designer is willing to pay for pictures that are to his satisfaction. Hmmmmmm ... OK! The images will be used for website articles, press releases and flyers. I'll probably be shooting with a 1D Mk II (my only body at the moment, other than my old 10D which hasn't been used since I acquired the 1D Mk II in 2005). I have two zoom lenses i.e. 24-70mm f/2.8L and 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II. Both have recently been serviced and calibrated alongside the 1D Mk II body so I should think they are pretty reliable e.g. as to autofocus. No backstage images are required, only catwalk images. I also have 85mm f/1.8 and 100mm f/2.8 macro (non-IS) primes. Flash is allowed and I have 550 EX and 580EX speedlights (one of each).

Question:

I'll be grateful for any advice from those in the CR community experienced in photographing fashion on the catwalk, specifically as to lens choice and also more generally on the best shooting position (presumably at the end of the runway, for head-on shots?), shooting mode (e.g. AV, TV, manual?), drive mode (i.e. single shot or A1 servo, if the latter which custom settings would you use?), natural light or flash (if flash, which mode i.e. manual or TTL?) general photographer etiquette and any other advice you can offer?

I'm thinking end of runway, as high a shooting position as possible (get there early and if possible set custom white balance and shoot a GretagMacbeth Colour Rendition Chart for custom profiling in post), 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, manual shooting mode at f/5.6 (fixed for reasonable depth of field on the models combined with reasonable separation of the models from the background) and 1/100th sec minimum (vary speed according to ambient light), 580 EX speedlight set on ETTL, drive mode A1 Servo (as the models will probably be walking towards me at a pretty fast pace, plenty of spare batteries and ... last but not least ... don't jostle the other photographers! Am I more or less there or am I way out on my approach?

[I'm hoping the other photographers are not CR members or lurkers]


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## Flake (Jan 7, 2012)

If you play it smart you'll take both lenses and a flash (plus extra batteries), turn up early and talk to the lighting crew ask them to give the lighting for you and get someone to wander down the catwalk for you. You need to get the model in full length so shoot wide & crop, failing to get full length is a wasted image. Flash with an EB2 type bracket or a seperate light stand as the shots will be all portrait. You might want some audience shots if the designer has invited important clients.

Personally I wouldn't shoot anything without a guarantee of a payment, and certainly not without a much higher amount for each image if they were sold speculatively £400 an image is a nice starting price. Remember to sell a licence to use for web not a royalty free universal use, you might also want to get a written permission to use your images with model releases where ever you see fit. If you can't make money from him there's no reason why you shouldn't make it elsewhere. If he won't agree to this then I suggest you refuse to shoot it, there's always another idiot who'll work for nothing in the hope they'll get paid if everyone refused then photographers work would be a little more valued.


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## ferdi (Jan 8, 2012)

Here's a few links that might get you started:

http://photo.net/learn/runway-fashion-photography/fashion-week-nyc/
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/features/London_Fashion_Week__how_to_shoot_a_catwalk_show_features_305793.html


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## willrobb (Jan 8, 2012)

I've been shooting Tokyo Fashion Week for a few years now, from some of the guys there that do the whole circuit I hear London fashion Week (and New York) are among the most aggressive in terms of photographers fighting over space etc. My experience is based purely on shooting in Tokyo, I'm not a full time catwalk photographer so I can't say my advice is the be all and end all, but I will offer based on my experience.

First up, I blogged quite a lot of info about how to shoot catwalk recently:

http://www.willrobbphotography.com/2011/11/mercedes-benz-fashion-week-tokyo-2012-ss-tips-on-shooting-fashion/

However, to quickly summarize and answer some of your questions:

1. Use your 70-200mm IS on you 1DmkIV. That's probably the best canon set up for catwalk. Get a full body shot and a 3/4 crop of each model if you can. Info about foot position on my blog.
2. DO NOT USE FLASH during the show! I've never seen flash used at Catwalk until the very end when the designer comes out, even then very rarely. In a group of photographers at catwalk, one guy using flash dazzles those behind him/her and ruins peoples shots and you will make a lot of enemies. Two seasons ago a newbie turned up at a show with a 580EXII and a few guys told him in no uncertain terms to get it away as he couldn't use it during the show. He ignored their advice and when the show started and he used it he got one more warning which he ignored yet again and someone punched him out. 
3. Position depends on the show. Sometimes slap in the middle is best, sometimes it's best to shoot from the sides if the back light is too strong. There is always an "official" photographer for the brand or fashion week there, see where he/she is and try to get close to them. They have a lot more knowledge in advance of how the show will be and they are where they are for a reason. Also, find out where the models will be walking, down the center and turn up to the left or right, down from the left and turn and up the right.
4. Turn up early. Be 2-3 hours early if you can, then hopefully you'll see a run through of the show and see the lighting set up. It's good to get the info from the lighting tech guys, but if they aren't on schedule for opening time they will be working their arses off and won't be wanting to speak to someone they don't already know.
5. Someone always walks out with a sheet of paper to do a white balance check for the photographers. Mostly it's tungsten light at catwalk, you'll find out for sure on the day though.
6. Some people shoot manual, some shoot TV, some shoot AV. Find what works best for you, there is no right or wrong, but I'd say as long as you have a minimum shutter speed of 1/250 (I try and have it almost double if possible) you'll be fine. f5.6 would be good as well, but often due to low lighting I'll sacrifice aperture to make sure I don't have blurry shots from slow shutter speed. Even at f2.8 you can get lots of details in the clothes if you nail the shot and the models aren't too close.
7. Money wise, you really shouldn't be providing the designer with photos for free, but if there is a chance of you getting in and the possibility of him buying some it's worth it to get entry, even if you don't make sales from this you will get the experience. If someone from a newspaper/mag wants to use them, don't give them away for free though. 400 pounds an image isn't realistic though. People photographing the whole of fashion week taking in 20 + shows get 2000-5000 pounds total depending on experience, people from agencies are doing it as part of their salary, some bloggers are there doing it for free. The big money shots are the ones used for advertising that are shot in the studio. Media wise most magazines/newspapers buy from wire services like AP/Reuters where the the runway shows are part of their monthly wire subscription.
8. Money again...just so you know. There are some guys who have been shooting Tokyo Fashion Week for 2-3 years now for overseas publications (sometimes fairly big names as well) who have made zero money for a lot of work, but they continue to provide images for free as they believe that one day their editors will pay them when they have a better budget and/or someone will see their photos and be so blown away that they'll pick up some really good gigs. It doesn't happen. Once someone knows you will work for free they will keep trying to get you to work for free.
9. Etiquette...work round other people as much as possible, but also stand your ground. I've seen some senior fashion guys push the newbies/juniors around, telling them to get out of their spot so someone else can get in there, the new people shouldn't be there etc and if you aren't on assignment you are just a piece of rubbish. I went through that to begin with, I stupidly lost a good spot some times, but then I started standing my ground and once I'd been around a while and people remembered me I got a lot more respect and became accepted. It's quite a clique world, you will be an outsider to begin with, but after a while if you are around you'll be accepted. I will add however, I'm a tall bald stubbly Scotsman, I've seen some rather attractive young girls turn up to shoots for the first time and they are accepted from the word go.... ???

Good luck


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## ereka (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I knew I could rely on the CR community to come up trumps! One thing tha'ts still bugging me is that I only really have a 1D Mk II to shoot with at the moment and I'm not sure that will give me good enough image quality. It seems that for various reasons flash is far from ideal during the actual shows, so to maintain a fast shutter speed to keep the models in sharp focus, some pretty high ISOs might be necessary, up to 1600 or even 3200 depending upon the lighting conditions. I know for a fact that images from my ID Mk II at those sorts of ISO are going to be very noisy. For the last two weeks, I've been toying with the idea of buying a 5D Mk II. However, I don't have bottomless pockets and I already have a 1Dx on pre-order and it seems that a 5D Mk III might be just around the corner. I feel that my limited funds should be invested as wisely as possible. What would you guys do in my position?


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## ereka (Jan 8, 2012)

Also, can anyone advise me regarding A1 servo in these conditions e.g. custom functions to set for best results?


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## wickidwombat (Jan 8, 2012)

with the 1D AI servo will work well, i use back button focus so you hold the AF-on button down to focus, older ones might not have the AF-on button but you can configure the * as the AF button. (this was how i had to do it on the 1D mk1) this way you can just hold that button down and keep tracking the target and just shoot as required with the shutter button. just make sure you give it a second or 2 to achieve lock before you start shooting ie lock on well before you are going to be firing off shots. practice the back button focus technique in advance to get an idea of how it works.


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## willrobb (Jan 8, 2012)

1D mkII will be fine, lots of people use them for runway. Before the 1D mkIII and mkIV they were what everyone used. In 5 years people won't be wanting to use the 1DX as it won't be as good as the "newest" body, it's a never ending cycle ;-)


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## ereka (Jan 8, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> with the 1D AI servo will work well, i use back button focus so you hold the AF-on button down to focus, older ones might not have the AF-on button but you can configure the * as the AF button. (this was how i had to do it on the 1D mk1) this way you can just hold that button down and keep tracking the target and just shoot as required with the shutter button. just make sure you give it a second or 2 to achieve lock before you start shooting ie lock on well before you are going to be firing off shots. practice the back button focus technique in advance to get an idea of how it works.



Would that be C.Fn-04 option 1:"You can focus at one location and obtain AE lock at another location in the scene. Press the <*> button to autofocus and press the shutter button half way to attain AE lock"?

How about C.Fn-20 (A1 Servo tracking sensitivity)? Would you set it on 1, 2, 3 or 4?

And C.Fn-21 "{shooting is possible even when focus has not been achieved. Even though the focus is not quite sharp, at least you will have a picture"

[All quotes are from the Canon 1D Mk II manual]

All this might seem self explanatory, but no substitute for experience in the field (which I don't have with catwalk)?

In addition to the above, are there any other custom functions you'd set?


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## ereka (Jan 8, 2012)

willrobb said:


> 1D mkII will be fine, lots of people use them for runway. Before the 1D mkIII and mkIV they were what everyone used. In 5 years people won't be wanting to use the 1DX as it won't be as good as the "newest" body, it's a never ending cycle ;-)



I do take your point  I guess the 1.3 conversion factor will give my 70-200mm a little more reach, but I can't help wondering whether the image quality will live up to today's expectations (given the relatively poor high ISO performance and relatively low 8Mp resolution)?


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## wickidwombat (Jan 8, 2012)

ereka said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > with the 1D AI servo will work well, i use back button focus so you hold the AF-on button down to focus, older ones might not have the AF-on button but you can configure the * as the AF button. (this was how i had to do it on the 1D mk1) this way you can just hold that button down and keep tracking the target and just shoot as required with the shutter button. just make sure you give it a second or 2 to achieve lock before you start shooting ie lock on well before you are going to be firing off shots. practice the back button focus technique in advance to get an idea of how it works.
> ...



yes that is the custom function i was refering to, so once enbaled the shutter button wont try to focus at all. Its also very handy when using manual focus override on you lens as the camera wont try and re-auto focus after you have manually adjusted your focus. with AI servo sensetivity normal setting will be fine since they are not moving fast, sports shooters might set this to fast however with runway normal mode will be fine. just remember you have to keep holding the * button to keep AI servo focusing engaged so it will keep tracking the target, It wont beep either with AI servo engaged but the green dot will light up in the veiwfinder to let you know you are locked on. Get some relatives to model for you so you can practice the back button focus technique. It takes a bit to get used to but once you start using it you wont go back to the old way.


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## ereka (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks again for the advice! The models seem to me to virtually race down the runway though, although I guess it's all relative e.g. compared with an Olympic sprinter, skier etc. Would there be any advantage at all do you think to upping the A1 servo tracking sensitivity (or would there be any positive disadvantages in doing so)? Also, would you stick to automatic AF point selection for A1 servo mode (which I understand from the manual is the default) or some other method?


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## wickidwombat (Jan 9, 2012)

ereka said:


> Thanks again for the advice! The models seem to me to virtually race down the runway though, although I guess it's all relative e.g. compared with an Olympic sprinter, skier etc. Would there be any advantage at all do you think to upping the A1 servo tracking sensitivity (or would there be any positive disadvantages in doing so)? Also, would you stick to automatic AF point selection for A1 servo mode (which I understand from the manual is the default) or some other method?


yeah adjusting the sensetivity is a trade off as is everything in photography, with faster AI servo there is the potential to lose some accuracy the normal setting is perfectly fine for a person walking briskly toward you,


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## willrobb (Jan 9, 2012)

ereka said:


> willrobb said:
> 
> 
> > 1D mkII will be fine, lots of people use them for runway. Before the 1D mkIII and mkIV they were what everyone used. In 5 years people won't be wanting to use the 1DX as it won't be as good as the "newest" body, it's a never ending cycle ;-)
> ...



It really all depends on the shows lighting and where the designer would be planning to use the images if he purchased them.

If you are shooting RAW and the images are for web/magazine publication you will be OK. One of my colleagues uses two 1DmkII bodies at fashion week and be rarely has any problems. I use a 5DmkII for runway, at the last fashion week I shot 25 shows and for the majority of them I was shooting at the iso 400-800 range, for a few shows I needed iso 1600- 3200 but that was very unusual. Designers mostly want to show off their clothes as well as possible so they make sure the models will be very well lit.

Don't worry, get in there and do the best you can with what you have. My first two fashion weeks were shot with a 30D and an old 80-200mm f2.8L lens and it was OK.


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## ereka (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice guys! However, I'm having serious second thoughts as to whether to go to the show at all now, after having just found out that the designers involved have no less than 50 (yes that's FIFTY ... five zero) photographers lined up to shoot for no pay. Also, all the models and makeup artists are working for free. The carrot that is being dangled is possible recognition as a model/MUA/photographer on Brazil and/or Italy and a remote possibility that the designers might purchase some of the very best images (although no mention of how much they'd be prepared to pay). Basically, I answered a casting call on a talent site, for photographers to shoot two OFF SCHEDULE fashion shows during London Fashion Week and was thrilled to receive a reply saying that the designers would love me to shoot for them. I felt honoured and privileged i.e. until I found out how many photographers they'd apparently sent the same reply to. Is this normal practice amongst designers at fashion shows i.e. to recruit 50 photographers and I don't know how many models and makeup artists to work for no pay or are they just trying to do things on the cheap? If you are in the know about these things, I'd really appreciate your opinion as to whether you think this is a genuine opportunity for a newbie photographer to the fashion scene to gain experience, possibly gain recognition and possibly sell some of the images to the designers ... or is it just the designers trying to do things on the cheap and lining up 50 photographers to make their show look bigger and more important than it really is? In short, are we all (models. makeup artists and photographers alike) being conned and exploited as gullible wannabes? Given that as the shows are late evening time and I'll not only have to foot the bill for my travel to London and overnight accommodation and meals in London I reckon I'll be out of pocket to the tune of a few hundred pounds. I'm not really stupid enough to believe that I'll be "spotted" or that I'll sell any of my pictures to the designers, but would it be worth going just for the experience alone? I'd really appreciate some advice from anyone who has inside knowledge of the fashion industry or has experienced a similar scenario.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 13, 2012)

Personally i would just go for the experience and you might get some nice portfolio shots if nothing else you will get to test out some back button focus and ai servo. you might have to headbut another tog to get some prime real estate though 

but on a more serious note i think the fashion industry is notorious for taking advantage of people wanting to advance. You just need to turn the situation to your advantage, you are going to have a bunch of models and clothes in a runway situation that you can shoot for free to build a portfolio which you can later use to market your skills to the likes of local clothing stores or modeling agencies.
but you have to have a solid portfolio to show so a bit of pro bono work up front to get a decent portfolio is often called for, interested to see some of the shots if you go through with it


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## ereka (Feb 14, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> ... interested to see some of the shots if you go through with it



Me too! 

Your probably right that it would be good experience and an opportunity to portfolio build, but I can't help thinking that with 50 or more "official" photographers attending I might not get a shooting spot any better than Joe Bloggs in the general audience. Also, I've been pressing for information about the lighting but keep on getting fobbed off, which leads me to believe there's a distinct possibility that this will be an amateurish effort on a shoestring budget and unlikely to produce portfolio worthy images. There will be other fashion shows more local to me I'm sure, for me to cut my teeth on. There again, it wouldn't be London so probably wouldn't look quite so good on my CV! I'm not sure whether I'm trying to talk myself into it or out of it.


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## ereka (Feb 14, 2012)

I've just been sent a link to a video of last year's show:

http://youtu.be/GnYjiezMDQI

Looks like a pretty low key affair to me and it's not even a proper catwalk? What do you think - what should I do?

Apparently there a way MORE THAN 50 photographers going to be crammed in now and there's going to be a VIP party in a club afterwards with "networking opportunities".

I'm in a real dilemme as to whether it's going to be worth the effort.


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## Z (Feb 14, 2012)

I think it all sounds very dubious. It might be fun, and you might even get some decent photos for your portfolio (the idea of payment seems completely nonexistent to me), which might be handy if this is the industry you're trying to break into.

All in all, you don't sound sure and I think the travel & accommodation money could be better spent.


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## ereka (Feb 14, 2012)

Z said:


> I think it all sounds very dubious. It might be fun, and you might even get some decent photos for your portfolio (the idea of payment seems completely nonexistent to me), which might be handy if this is the industry you're trying to break into.
> 
> All in all, you don't sound sure and I think the travel & accommodation money could be better spent.



Maybe I'm just getting cold feet, although if I were convinced that it would be worth my while I'd have no hesitation in biting the bullet and giving it a go! I guess another way to look at it is ... what have I really got to lose? Not long after St Valentine's Day and my wife gets to stay in a 5* hotel in Central London and see a couple of fashion shows (she loves fashion)! I'm trying hard to convince myself here! :-[


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## wickidwombat (Feb 15, 2012)

nice low ceiling to bounce flash, the models look good. should be able to get some decent shots for a portfolio 
just make a trip of it with your wife 
with all the competition you are going to need the 1D mk2 fast burst rate
get yourself a yongnuo external battery pack to help boost your flash cycle time so it can keep up
do you have 2 flashes you may overheat one and need to swap it over to let it cool down.
go for it


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## ereka (Feb 15, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> nice low ceiling to bounce flash, the models look good. should be able to get some decent shots for a portfolio
> just make a trip of it with your wife
> with all the competition you are going to need the 1D mk2 fast burst rate
> get yourself a yongnuo external battery pack to help boost your flash cycle time so it can keep up
> ...



I'm not sure whether flash will be allowed or advisable - with well over 50 photographers in attendance, would flash not dazzle the other photographers and p*** them off??? I am erring on the side of going though, just for the experience and I'm sure my wife will enjoy the show anyway, so I'll notch up a few brownie points there hopefully 

I've already had a go at the back button focussing technique, photographing birds of prey in flight - I should think it's probably a little easier keeping focus on a catwalk model but we'll see! 

One thing I haven't tried is zooming whilst in A1 servo mode - how easy or difficult is it to zoom whilst maintaining focus? It seems like yet another skill to practise i.e. holding down the * button to track focus, zooming out at the same time whilst the models walk towards the camera and also controlling the shutter release button for short critically timed bursts - quite a juggling act I suspect!


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## wickidwombat (Feb 15, 2012)

people were definately using flash in that video, hence why i say shoot burst and have a high recycle flash so you will at lease catch a break in the other flashes if your flashes coincide it will blow out the shot. I dont think AI servo will keep lock if you try zoom but using back button focus its easy to reaquire lock after zooming just remember ai servo needs about a second to fix its lock on. with back button focus you just hold that puppy down and shoot so you dont have to worry about balancing the shutter button half way thats why its there as an option


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## ereka (Feb 21, 2012)

Well, I went along in the end and here are the results if anyone is interested:

http://www.derekandersonphotography.co.uk/yeslondon

http://www.derekandersonphotography.co.uk/johnpeter

http://www.derekandersonphotography.co.uk/ff

* 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens on a 1D Mk II

* No flash (but almost everyone else used flash, ruining a good proportion of my shots it has to be said)

* Lighting was mixed and white balance ended up at around 2650 Kelvin (going by grey card)

* I had to shoot on ISO 800 and f/2.8 to achieve shutter speeds between around 1/250th and 1/500th sec

* Back button focus on A1 servo worked really well and the vast majority of the images ended up pretty sharp (I haven't applied any additional sharpening to the images in the galleries on my website, other than the standard capture sharpening when converting from RAW using CS5)

Apart from one photographer who called me a "bl%&^ amateur" and threatened to smash my equipment and throw me out, it was a good experience and I'm glad I went.

Thank you to everyone who offered me advice and the benefit of their experience, all of which helped enormously on the day. Constructive criticism on the results will be very welcome if anyone has the time and inclination. Apologies if this is in the wrong forum.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 21, 2012)

damn someone really said that? what a tool anyway looks like you got some good shots, 
backgrounds are a bit distracting, would have been good to blur them even more but as you said you were already at f2.8, Your shooting angle was also quite high, you must be reasonably tall, I would have sat on the floor and shot from a low angle to do two things
1) get less background distraction and
2) make the models look more imposing and dominant
glad the back button worked well with the ai servo it's nice and reliable on the 1D series

I would guess the guys using flash would have more killed shots due to all the other flash and flashes recycling, but i looked pretty well lit and the 1D can handle iso 800 easy. 

so would you do it again?


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## ereka (Feb 21, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> damn someone really said that? what a tool anyway looks like you got some good shots,
> backgrounds are a bit distracting, would have been good to blur them even more but as you said you were already at f2.8, Your shooting angle was also quite high, you must be reasonably tall, I would have sat on the floor and shot from a low angle to do two things
> 1) get less background distraction and
> 2) make the models look more imposing and dominant
> ...



Thanks for the critique. It's all new to me, this catwalk photography and it was a good learning experience. I can see that I'm at the bottom of a very steep learning curve! The venue didn't seem great, but it's the only one I've shot at so I can't really compare. I was actually standing on a chair behind around 30 or 40 other photographers for the Yes London and John Peter shows, which was the only way I could get any sort of look in. I didn't want to go anywhere near the aggressive fellow again! He had plonked himself smack bang in the middle of the runway at the front so if I'd sat at the front I'd have been right in his eyeline - goodness knows what stick he'd have given me then! I thought it better to stay well clear and out of eye and earshot! Not only that, but because of the low ceiling I'd have got that in the shots, which would have been an even worse distraction in the images? It wasn't a pretty ceiling - just polystyrene ceiling tiles with a smattering of lights and smoke alarms. I could easily cut the models out and put them on a different background, but that sort of defeats the object of shooting at a live fashion show? ISO 800 isn't great on my camera (don't know if it's typical of the 1D Mk II but it's pretty noisy at ISO 800 and the images I posted have all had quite strong noise reduction applied in a batch via Topaz DeNoise). Looking at the files, I think they'd benefit from some individual attention, but its all very time consuming and I haven't caught up on my last shoot yet! I need a more efficient workflow. Would I do it again? Probably, given the opportunity. I see it as a challenge now!!!


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## DBCdp (Feb 21, 2012)

For what it's worth, I think you did a really good job. You've certainly got some fantastic shots to line your folio with! As for the "tool" I'd like to think I'd have served him nuts to go with his drink but don't know exactly what I'd do in that situation. Looks like you played it about right though as your got good shots and didn't get arrested! 

I do think I'd have to deal with him though, in one manner or another. Can't stand folks like that!


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## ereka (Feb 24, 2012)

DBCdp said:


> For what it's worth, I think you did a really good job. You've certainly got some fantastic shots to line your folio with! As for the "tool" I'd like to think I'd have served him nuts to go with his drink but don't know exactly what I'd do in that situation. Looks like you played it about right though as your got good shots and didn't get arrested!
> 
> I do think I'd have to deal with him though, in one manner or another. Can't stand folks like that!



Thank you - I just wish they weren't so noisy, the venue had been better and I had a better shooting position (it was as much as I could do do hold the camera steady in the circumstances, let alone frame the shots properly, but I guess it does prove the effectiveness of the IS on the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS MkII as virtually all the shots ended up pretty sharp). I definitely think I'd have been seriously struggling without the IS on that lens!

I've been looking at some of the official London Fashion Week venues appearing on TV news recently with envy. They seem to have taken the photography aspects of the shows into account when designing the catwalks e.g. a large clean plain background in place behind the models when they step onto the runway and good bright even lighting, making it almost like shooting high fashion in a studio. 

Regarding the noise in the images, even at 800 ISO, the minimum I could get away with on this occasion, it really is very noticeable on the 1D MkII prior to noise reduction in post production. If it weren't for the "high" ISO noise issue with the camera, I don't think I'd feel such a strong need to replace it, but I look at the (alleged) high ISO performance of newer cameras and can't help wondering how the images would look e.g. from a 5D MkII or 1Dx.

Having said all that, I was sent an image recently, by a London portrait studio, for retouching and I wasn't really that impressed. It wasn't until I looked at the exif data that I realised it was shot on a 5D MkII. It didn't look nearly as good as files from my 1D MkII. Having said that, the shadows were badly clipped, so I guess poor shooting technique probably had a lot to do with it.

Yes, I agree ... I'd have loved to have taken issue with the rude fellow who hassled and threatened me. I held back mainly because I didn't want to become involved in a fight and be thrown out myself, especially after having travelled so far. Also, it wouldn't have been fair on everyone else who'd made the effort to attend or on the organisers and designers who had a vested interest in the success of the show. Another consideration in my mind though was that it was my first time photographing a catwalk show and to be fair, it's quite possible that I was in the wrong. I still don't know exactly what it was because the fellow wouldn't tell me. When I asked him (as politely as I could) he just glared at me like I was an idiot and said I was "messing with his money" and he knew the game I was playing. Well, he knew better than I did and I still don't have the slightest clue what he was on about! I don't think there was any justification for his threatening behaviour though, especially as I was so willing to compromise. I'd have responded much better to a polite "please don't do that (whatever it was) because its ruining my shots". It could have been that I was standing too close and cramping his movement, although all the photographers were really in the same boat so I don't know why he should feel so special and he didn't offer any explanation e.g. "I'm the official photographer and the designers are relying on me". It could have been that I was shooting rapid bursts of around 6 to 12 frames at 9 fps when the models stepped out onto the runway and that was a little loud in his left ear and he found it annoying or distracting, but why not just say so. Most of the advice I received before the shows seemed to point to continous shooting with no flash being the way to go, so that's what I did. Much to my surprise though, most people seemed to be using flash and single shot. 

Finally, I've had the opportunity now to look at the websites of a few of the other photographers who attended the shows and on that basis it appears my results are somewhere in the middle - not the best by a long stretch but by no means the worst, so I guess I didn't do too badly for a first attempt


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## Marsu42 (Feb 25, 2012)

ereka said:


> Apart from one photographer who called me a "bl%&^ amateur" and threatened to smash my equipment and throw me out


Is this behavior customary? Maybe this was just a standard technique for scaring away newbies by letting them wonder what they did wrong, but you actually didn't do anything wrong at all. Please let us know if you ever find out 



willrobb said:


> My first two fashion weeks were shot with a 30D and an old 80-200mm f2.8L lens and it was OK.


You really think using an aps-c body would get one anywhere with *today's* standards?



willrobb said:


> f5.6 would be good as well, but often due to low lighting I'll sacrifice aperture to make sure I don't have blurry shots from slow shutter speed. Even at f2.8 you can get lots of details in the clothes if you nail the shot and the models aren't too close.


I really would like to know this one: Everybody seems to be using a 2.8 zoom - but if you look at your (lightroom or whatever) stats, at which aperture and zoom range where the pictures shot that got you anywhere at the end of the day? I am wondering if a f4 or even f5.6 zoom or a fixed prime would be ok too for these occasions.


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## ereka (Feb 26, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> I really would like to know this one: Everybody seems to be using a 2.8 zoom - but if you look at your (lightroom or whatever) stats, at which aperture and zoom range where the pictures shot that got you anywhere at the end of the day? I am wondering if a f4 or even f5.6 zoom or a fixed prime would be ok too for these occasions.



I can't comment for anyone else, but for these particular fashion shows I was shooting permanently on f/2.8 at ISO 800 (the highest I can really get away with on the 1DMkII) to maintain fast enough shutter speeds to keep the images sharp.

Three of the resulting pictures have just been published http://www.derekandersonphotography.co.uk/blog which I'm pretty sure wouldn't have happened if I hadn't had f/2.8 available i.e. either I wouldn't have got the shots at all or they just wouldn't have been sharp enough.

Having said that, on a newer body e.g. 5DMkII with better high ISO performance, I guess f/4 or f/5.6 would have been easily achievable. There again, that might have resulted in too much depth of field to separate the models sufficiently from the background?

Regarding zoom versus prime, as I only have one camera body at the moment I'd have been struggling to frame both full length and mid-length shots without a zoom and even if I had two bodies, I suspect it would have taken way too long to put down one body and pick up the other with the rate the models were racing down the catwalk and also impractical due to the sheer number of other photographers crammed into a small area at the end of the runway.

With 'only' 8mp available to me, cropping full length shots to mid-length and resizing them by interpolation might not produce sufficient sharp detail in the clothing? With more mp I guess that wouldn't be so much of a problem.

Flash would be another option, but from my limited experience that isn't ideal when there are so many other photographers shooting at the same time. Actually, there were plenty of photographers using flash and I have to say it ruined a good number of my shots due to gross overexposure.

At the end of the day, you work with the equipment you have with you in the circumstances in which you find yourself (which you can't always predict with absolute certainty). Having f/2.8 available just adds some flexibility in the options available to you, so I'd rather have it than be without it.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 26, 2012)

ereka said:


> Having said that, on a newer body e.g. 5DMkII with better high ISO performance, I guess f/4 or f/5.6 would have been easily achievable. There again, that might have resulted in too much depth of field to separate the models sufficiently from the background?



Indeed, looking at these shots it's very close quarters and a small dof is called for. The fashion shows I had in mind leave more than 1m between the model and the audience in the background  ... and concerning iso noise, this is of course a moving target. Do all shots get automatically rejected when they show the slightest trace of grain?


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## ereka (Feb 26, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> ereka said:
> 
> 
> > Having said that, on a newer body e.g. 5DMkII with better high ISO performance, I guess f/4 or f/5.6 would have been easily achievable. There again, that might have resulted in too much depth of field to separate the models sufficiently from the background?
> ...



I think 'slightest trace' is an understatement with the 1DMkII (i.e. without some fairly aggressive noise reduction in post and even then there's the danger of losing detail and making the images too soft; also it takes time). Have you tried using ISO 1600 or 3200 on the 1DMkII? :-\ I find that ISO 800 is manageable but anything more is a bit of a struggle.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 26, 2012)

ereka said:


> Have you tried using ISO 1600 or 3200 on the 1DMkII? :-\



I haven't come closer to any 1D body than though a shopping windows  

But I can tell you something about my 18MP standard aps-c sensor using lightroom and raw: up to iso 400 sharpness is just the same even after a tiny noise reduction, iso 800 is just fine even at 100% but the sharpness/nr tradeoff begins, and iso 1000 is usable if the exposure was right to start with. I also took good pictures with iso 2000, but in this case there really shouldn't be any underexposure to raise in post processing and you cannot crop/print as much as with lower iso levels.

Concerning noise reduction: Using Lightroom 4 instead of 3 takes nr to a new level because a) of of the non-global nr brush and b) the 2012 process is much more clever than the 2003/2010 one because you don't need to raise exposure (= noise) as high as before on underexposed shots but can use the smarter shadow recovery.


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