# Canon officially announces the C700 Full Frame



## canonnews (Mar 28, 2018)

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<p><b>MELVILLE, N.Y., March 28, 2018</b> – Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, is excited to announce the EOS C700 FF, the Company’s first full-frame cinema camera. The beauty and majesty of full-frame digital cinema is now becoming a new creative reality. Since the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II DSLR camera in 2008, Canon has been a part of the full-frame video movement, and the introduction of the C700 FF has reinforced Canon’s commitment to this market. At the heart of the camera is a novel Canon-developed CMOS image sensor having a total of 5952 (H) x 3140 (V) photosites with a digital cinema 17:9 aspect ratio, which gives it the same image circle size as the full frame EOS 5D camera series. This supports a wide range of shooting options.</p>
<p>Available in both PL and EF Mount, the EOS C700 FF provides users with the same outstanding performance, operation and modular design as the EOS C700 (released in December 2016). The camera is being shown publicly for the first time at the Canon booth (C4325) at the NAB Show 2018 in Las Vegas from April 9-12.</p>
<p><!--more-->“Since the launch of Canon’s Cinema EOS line of products in November 2011, the goal was to one day develop a cinema camera worthy of being the ‘A’ camera on major Hollywood productions, and Canon met that goal with the introduction of the EOS C700,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO, Canon U.S.A., Inc. “After listening to our customers and closely monitoring market trends, Canon set forth a new goal: to launch a full-frame cinema camera. With this introduction, we are very excited to see the C700 FF in the hands of industry professionals as they shoot their latest projects.”</p>
<p>Existing owners of Canon’s original EOS C700 cinema camera will be pleased to know they can have their Super 35mm sensor upgraded to the new Full-Frame sensor for a fee*. Authorized Canon facilities such as Canon Burbank are ready to process C700 upgrades as well as lens mount swaps, and offer equipment drop off, on-site repairs and upgrades, as well as equipment testing and demonstration.</p>
<p><b>The Sensor</b></p>
<p>The newly developed sensor featured in the EOS C700 FF has an active image area of 38.1 x 20.1mm and supports readout at full size, as well as Super 35mm, Super 16mm and anamorphic modes. In addition to full-frame lenses, it can be used with conventional Super 35mm lenses to originate 4K / UHD standardized production formats and Super 16mm lenses (with an adapter) to originate 2K / HD production formats in crop modes. The sensor captures wide tonality exceeding 15 stops of dynamic range and a wide color gamut meeting ITU-R BT.2020 standards. This offers broad latitude when grading, providing outstanding effectiveness in HDR video production.</p>
<p><b>Recording</b></p>
<p>The EOS C700 FF embodies a choice of two high-performance codecs for on-board recording –Canon XF-AVC or Apple ProRes. Like other cameras in the 4K Cinema EOS family, the EOS C700 FF uses CFast cards to capture 4K / UHD or 2K / HD. A striking feature of the C700 FF is the <i>Oversampling 4K Processing</i> that processes a 5.9K image capture to produce 4K (DCI or UHD) having enhanced image sharpness, curtailed moire, and a lowered visibility of noise at the higher ISO settings. This is especially advantageous for on-board anamorphic image capture. Low-rate 2K/HD proxy data including metadata, can be recorded to SD cards, ideal for offline editing. The camera also allows high-frame-rate recording of up to 168fps in 2K crop and relay or simultaneous recording onto both CFast cards. In addition, the C700 FF can shoot at a Full HD high-frame-rate recording at a maximum of 168 fps. Additional formats are planned with future firmware updates.</p>
<p>To further complement the features of the EOS C700 FF, Canon has turned to its trusted partner Codex to provide a fully integrated (no cables) recording and workflow option. The combination of the optional Codex CDX-36150 recorder docked onto the back of the EOS C700 FF enables 5.9K 60 fps RAW recording, 4K RAW up to 72 fps (in 24p mode), 4K ProRes up to 60 fps and 2K ProRes up to 168 fps (in Super 16mm mode).</p>
<p>The C700 FF also supports the latest version (1.0) of the ACESproxy, the ACES (Academy Color Encoding System) color management transmission standard.</p>
<p><b>HDR</b></p>
<p>For users looking to create High Dynamic Range (HDR) imagery, the EOS C700 FF is an excellent solution, providing 15 stops of latitude (with Canon Log2 only), along with Canon’s proprietary Log Gammas (Canon Log3, Canon Log2 and Canon Log) and renowned color science. Canon Log2 is recommended when originating HDR imagery containing both highlight details and deep shadowed details. In comparison with Canon Log, Canon Log3 offers a wider dynamic range while retaining performance in darker regions.</p>
<p>Additionally, these cameras seamlessly integrate with Canon’s latest professional 4K UHD Reference Displays for on-set review and color management that conforms to SMPTE ST 2084 standards of HDR display.</p>
<p>The look of a cinematic production begins with the lens, and the EOS C700 FF offers both PL and EF lens mount options which are interchangeable at a Canon authorized service center. For full frame imaging, the EF lens mount version of the new EOS C700 FF is compatible with Canon’s family of seven Cinema Prime lenses, including the newly announced CN-E20mm T1.5 L F lens, as well as the diverse lineup of over 70 interchangeable EF lenses. The EF mount supports Canon’s Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology and Dual Pixel Focus Guide. The Focus Guide assists operators with a precision visual indicator in the viewfinder when pulling focus. Alternatively, for certain demanding shooting situations the reliable capabilities of Dual Pixel CMOS AF can be deployed. The EOS C700 FF PL mount version is also compatible with Cooke’s /i metadata communication technology.</p>
<p>The EOS C700 FF EF and EOS C700 FF PL are scheduled to be available in July 2018 for an estimated retail price of $33,000.00. For more information on the EOS C700 FF please visit, usa.canon.com/provideo.</p>
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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2018)

Good move for them. They needed to match the Sony Venice, ARRI, and RED formats. It's smaller than other sensor sizes with a 17:9 aspect, however.


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## swithdrawn (Mar 28, 2018)

Does this all but guarantee no 4k, or a ridiculously hobbled 4k, in any forthcoming FF mirrorless?


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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2018)

swithdrawn said:


> Does this all but guarantee no 4k, or a ridiculously hobbled 4k, in any forthcoming FF mirrorless?



Pretty much. 

I think if they are smart, they'll release a high end FF mirrorless with FF 4K and a good quality codec, as a "gateway drug" to their higher end cinema products like the C700. Many DPs/Cinematographers have grown up with the Sony A7S series and have migrated to FS7s with Speedboosters, etc., and could be potential Venice customers. It keeps them in the ecosystem. 

Canon should give people who are just starting out a really buzz worthy 4K product that recaptures the glory of the original 5D Mark II by enabling FF 4K. 

But, will they? From what we've seen so far, probably not. (And I'm usually not cynical, but with Canon I've been disappointed many times in this regard


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## canonnews (Mar 28, 2018)

swithdrawn said:


> Does this all but guarantee no 4k, or a ridiculously hobbled 4k, in any forthcoming FF mirrorless?



This camera and a DSLR is nowhere close to the same level of capabilities. We're talking a $35,000 video camera.

This really has nothing to do with DSLR's.

They probably will never put the full C300 styled 4K codecs or the C200 RAW format in a DSLR, but that doesn't mean they will hobble the DSLR video any. People that buy the C700 aren't going to jump to a DSLR for recording no matter what.


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## Talys (Mar 28, 2018)

swithdrawn said:


> Does this all but guarantee no 4k, or a ridiculously hobbled 4k, in any forthcoming FF mirrorless?



Oh, sure, because someone might buy a $3,000 camera _instead of a $33,000 video rig_. :

Shucks, Canon might just hobble 4k video in future 5DIV and 1DXII models, so better go buy one now before they get nerfed!!


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## swithdrawn (Mar 28, 2018)

Talys said:


> Oh, sure, because someone might buy a $3,000 camera _instead of a $33,000 video rig_. :



No I completely agree and think the comparison is ridiculous. But this is Canon we're talking about, so...


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Mar 28, 2018)

I like how they referenced the 5d Mk II as a reason people moved toward full frame digital cinema. I'm all for Canon being competitive in the high end market, but those comments are a bit patronizing when they've all but forgotten the owner-operator demographic that fully embraced the 5D II. It's a decade later and they'll still trying to ride that wave.


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## syyeung1 (Mar 28, 2018)

According to some, this is another proof that the M50 is crippled! 

Haven't been following this. Was the Super35 similar to APS-C with a crop factor? If so, changing to FF will
Mean they need new lens to achieve the same focal length?


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## RunAndGun (Mar 28, 2018)

We all knew it was coming, but it's DoA. I like Canon, but a lot of their choices and decisions when it comes to (video/cine) cameras just make you scratch your head and wonder if they ever really listen to the conversations they have with people in the industry.


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## cpreston (Mar 28, 2018)

syyeung1 said:


> According to some, this is another proof that the M50 is crippled!
> 
> Haven't been following this. Was the Super35 similar to APS-C with a crop factor? If so, changing to FF will
> Mean they need new lens to achieve the same focal length?



Super35 was just slightly larger than APS-C, which meant that most APS-C lenses could be used on the Canon Cinema Cameras. Super35 was a standard for film so most cinematographers don't think in terms of full frame 35mm still lens focal lengths anyway. Other camera manufacturers have started adding extra area and resolution to their video camera sensors so Canon is following suit. The fact that Canon already has its full frame sized stills and cinema primes available means it has a possible market despite the C700 not currently selling very well.


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## RunAndGun (Mar 28, 2018)

syyeung1 said:


> According to some, this is another proof that the M50 is crippled!
> 
> Haven't been following this. Was the Super35 similar to APS-C with a crop factor? If so, changing to FF will
> Mean they need new lens to achieve the same focal length?



I think you mean FoV. A lenses focal length does not change just because you put it in front of a different sized sensor. A 50mm lens is a 50mm lens regardless if it's in front of a s35 sensor, a "FF" sensor, s16, apps-c, etc.


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## swithdrawn (Mar 28, 2018)

RunAndGun said:


> We all knew it was coming, but it's DoA. I like Canon, but a lot of their choices and decisions when it comes to (video/cine) cameras just make you scratch your head and wonder if they ever really listen to the conversations they have with people in the industry.



Exactly, this is so perplexing. I would think even the Venice system from Sony will have a hard time breaking into the small segment of high end productions who want to shoot 'large format'. Could be wrong, but the only productions I've read about doing this are all using Alexa 65. I feel like FF marketed as a groundbreaking cinema feature in 2018 by Canon and Sony is gimmicky and insulting to those of us shooting FF back in 2009.


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## preppyak (Mar 28, 2018)

canonnews said:


> They probably will never put the full C300 styled 4K codecs or the C200 RAW format in a DSLR, but that doesn't mean they will hobble the DSLR video any. People that buy the C700 aren't going to jump to a DSLR for recording no matter what.


Yep, this thing doesnt even use SD cards like a DSLR, relying entirely on CFast or an attached recorder. So the ability it has in terms of throughput and data speed is not comparable in any way.

Canon will proably continue to muck up their 4k decisions in DSLRs, but that will be because they are Canon, not because they are worried about hurting sales for a camera thats easily 20x the price by the time you buy all the necessary pieces.


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## Bernard (Mar 28, 2018)

swithdrawn said:


> Could be wrong, but the only productions I've read about doing this are all using Alexa 65.



The Alexa 65 has an even larger sensor (around 5cm wide). The FF (really "VV" for Vistavision) competitor to the C700, and to the Venice , is the just-announced Alexa LF.

Will shows use this format? It depends on the look that the director/cinematographer want, and how far the budget can stretch.
I don't think that the industry will switch over to VV, but it will be used on shows where it makes sense.


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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2018)

Talys said:


> swithdrawn said:
> 
> 
> > Does this all but guarantee no 4k, or a ridiculously hobbled 4k, in any forthcoming FF mirrorless?
> ...



4K in the 5DIV is already hobbled with a 1.7x crop  

Actually, you make a good case on why Canon should NOT hobble video in their mirrorless or DSLRs, so I hope they see your logic. So far, they do not.


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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2018)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> I like how they referenced the 5d Mk II as a reason people moved toward full frame digital cinema. I'm all for Canon being competitive in the high end market, but those comments are a bit patronizing when they've all but forgotten the owner-operator demographic that fully embraced the 5D II. It's a decade later and they'll still trying to ride that wave.



So true- they'll ride that wave when it suits them but not provide FF capability in any of their DSLRs or in lower end Cinema EOS moving forward. Hypocritical, and what a shame.


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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2018)

canonnews said:


> swithdrawn said:
> 
> 
> > Does this all but guarantee no 4k, or a ridiculously hobbled 4k, in any forthcoming FF mirrorless?
> ...



But people novice DPs might grow up shooting FF Sony mirrorless and graduate to Sony CineAlta products instead of Canon. This is why it's important to be involved in the lower end of the market with comparable products for video shooters.


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## LDS (Mar 28, 2018)

transpo1 said:


> But people novice DPs might grow up shooting FF Sony mirrorless and graduate to Sony CineAlta products instead of Canon. This is why it's important to be involved in the lower end of the market with comparable products for video shooters.



So high-end movie camera makers (Arri, etc...) without a mirroless line should be worried?

When you reach a given level, you switch to the product(s) delivering you what you need, regardless of the brand - and many brands you're going to use don't care about the consumer market.


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## ajm (Mar 28, 2018)

Heck yeah, finally! I think I'll get one. My new A cam, my C300 MKII can be my B cam now. 
Why so many negative comments? Geez....people are so jaded these days.


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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2018)

LDS said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > But people novice DPs might grow up shooting FF Sony mirrorless and graduate to Sony CineAlta products instead of Canon. This is why it's important to be involved in the lower end of the market with comparable products for video shooters.
> ...



I don't think you get it what I'm saying. Young DPs start out with low end equipment like A7SIIs and GH5s. Then they graduate to FS7s, and maybe one day, a CineAlta. MILCs are not replacements for serious cinema cameras nor are meant to be. But it's important to get people in the ecosystem. I'd wager someone who has used an A7S and then an FS7 is more likely to use a CineAlta than a Canon. Of course, ARRI has the corner on the market for now and we'll see if Sony FF or Canon FF can make a dent.


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## cpreston (Mar 28, 2018)

transpo1 said:


> LDS said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



At a certain level, most people just rent. The rental market seems driven by familiarity and expectation. Therefore, everybody is just going to graduate to Arri unless one of the other manufacturers can really change things up.


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## CanonGrunt (Mar 28, 2018)

I think that by referencing the 5D MKII that they are alluding to a 4k FF DSLR or MILC without crop and probably 422 Clog & 30 FPS without crop or at super 35 crop mode in the near future as both a gateway into their Cinema line, and as a companion. I remember they made a big deal about how easy it was to match the 5D MK II to the digital cinema cameras at the time. Bay used up dozens of them when filming Transformers, as sad as it was to see so many canons destroyed, they got the shots they wanted. Big production companies want DSLRs and MILCs they can beat up for stunt / action shots, and B shots, that can pair up with something like the C700. On the other side, one might argue that that is what the C200B is for.

On a different note, the C100 MK is getting passed up by most indie filmmakers now (even though I still love mine for shorts), and the C200s RAW Light is restricted to CFAST cards, which makes it stupidly expensive. We went with a C300 MK 2 and Atomos recorders, and it came out to be cheaper than rigging out a c200 with enough CFAST cards for a shoot. That being said, Canon put itself in a box where it doesn't really have a decent 4k entry point that shoots in log, and for that matter, even not in log...


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## syder (Mar 28, 2018)

CanonGrunt said:


> On a different note, the C100 MK is getting passed up by most indie filmmakers now (even though I still love mine for shorts), and the C200s RAW Light is restricted to CFAST cards, which makes it stupidly expensive. We went with a C300 MK 2 and Atomos recorders, and it came out to be cheaper than rigging out a c200 with enough CFAST cards for a shoot. That being said, Canon put itself in a box where it doesn't really have a decent 4k entry point that shoots in log, and for that matter, even not in log...



How many CFAST cards you need for a shoot really depends on what you're doing. For a lot of short form work a two or three 256gb cards is plenty. For a lot of other types it's not a problem to offload one card to an external drive while you shoot on another. If you're shooting 6 hours of documentary footage a day you almost certainly dont want to be shooting RAW anyway.

Given the cost difference between C300mkii + Atomos + drives VS C200 how many cards were you looking at? 4 x 256GB CFAST cards are US$1500... Here in NZ theres NZD4,500 (about US$3K) between just the camera bodies. If I add in an external recorder and drives I could get 12x 256GB cards - or six hours of RAWlite footage - and have some change left over.

That said, if you are shooting huge quantities of material for broadcast the 10bit C300 is probably a better choice than the 8bit or RAW C200. I don't, so the C200 seemed to make sense. The 8bit 4K material is more than good enough for events and long-form stuff for the web and the internal RAW is awesome for shorter projects - and means I can shoot solo handheld RAW with DPAF if needed! Its a massive step up in just about every way from the C100mk1 I was using before.


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## CanonGrunt (Mar 29, 2018)

syder said:


> CanonGrunt said:
> 
> 
> > On a different note, the C100 MK is getting passed up by most indie filmmakers now (even though I still love mine for shorts), and the C200s RAW Light is restricted to CFAST cards, which makes it stupidly expensive. We went with a C300 MK 2 and Atomos recorders, and it came out to be cheaper than rigging out a c200 with enough CFAST cards for a shoot. That being said, Canon put itself in a box where it doesn't really have a decent 4k entry point that shoots in log, and for that matter, even not in log...
> ...



Yeah, definitely depends on the specific project. We were shooting an indie feature, and a separate web series during the same time period, so it was easier to keep a few separate drives instead of a stack of cards. 

Also we picked up the C300 MK 2 used for $6,000, so that made a big difference. I've seen them going for $7,000 pretty often in the used market.


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## Ozarker (Mar 29, 2018)

I don't want to flame anybody so I'll just say this: I'd be embarrassed as heck to even suggest that the sensor tech from a $33,000 camera should be put in a FF stills camera. I had no idea people could be so detached from logic and common sense. Snowflakes indeed. Canon is *******. :


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 29, 2018)

Don’t see one of these in my future but I bet it’s pretty sweet wide open with some of that fast cinema glass. As others have said I’d assume this is targeted to the rental market. Important that this camera exists well beyond its actual sales value to Canon. Canon is playing the long game in cinema and there was an obvious need to fill this niche. Sensor density comparable to the original 5D so I don’t expect to see this sensor in a stills camera anytime soon.


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## Nakean (Mar 29, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't want to flame anybody so I'll just say this: I'd be embarrassed as heck to even suggest that the sensor tech from a $33,000 camera should be put in a FF stills camera. I had no idea people could be so detached from logic and common sense. Snowflakes indeed. Canon is *******. :



I suppose all I need to do is read your name....but....I don't think people are saying that at all. I'm not asking for FF RAW or 4444 12bit in a dslr but Panasonic managed to squeeze 10bit 4:2:2 with log into their camera and also allow for 4k 10bit 422 60p out through HDMI. EVERYONE else gives a live histogram, zebras, log, and a codec that wasn't invented almost 30 YEARS AGO!!! The rolling shutter jello from the 5dmkIV is just sad.... 1.7crop?....I don't think canon is *******, but as a red stripe pro shooter for over 10 years....I've thrown in the towel and moved over to Sony for my stills and Panny for my video. They play too many games with their models giving as little as possible to the consumer.


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## swithdrawn (Mar 29, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't want to flame anybody so I'll just say this: I'd be embarrassed as heck to even suggest that the sensor tech from a $33,000 camera should be put in a FF stills camera. I had no idea people could be so detached from logic and common sense. Snowflakes indeed. Canon is *******. :



Full frame 4k in a small body is not $33,000 tech. Sony do it for $2000. For Canon color science and DPAF I would pay up to $5000. That's literally all I want and ask for. I'm glad no one seems to think this will be used to justify keeping 4k FF out of a prosumer mirrorless, but I'm really skeptical.


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## Sean C (Mar 29, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't want to flame anybody so I'll just say this: I'd be embarrassed as heck to even suggest that the sensor tech from a $33,000 camera should be put in a FF stills camera.


Nope, but I'd like to see some hardware codec & colorspace support. They've already taped out the hardware design for that.
Also +1 for Magic Lantern being the real hero for the 5D mk II. I've stuck with the Mk III because there is no ML on the 5D mk IV.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 29, 2018)

As far as I can tell Canon makes very nice cameras that seem to meet the needs of people who actually shoot video but they are not very good at making products that meet the needs of people who like to talk about shooting video on internet forums. But maybe I'm missing something.


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## cpreston (Mar 29, 2018)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> As far as I can tell Canon makes very nice cameras that seem to meet the needs of people who actually shoot video but they are not very good at making products that meet the needs of people who like to talk about shooting video on internet forums. But maybe I'm missing something.



I would say that Canon makes video cameras for people in the business of trying to make a living with the camera. Their big gaping hole is the lack of 4K 60p, not because it is necessarily needed for any logistical reason, but because most producers feel they need it. Due to this, the Sony FS7 has overtaken the Canon C300 II. The C100 is a great work horse in its market. The C700 is still trying to find its market, which may never happen. Comparisons to DSLR's are made by people who aren't in the market for a cinema camera in the first place.


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 29, 2018)

Hang on. So Canon can make 15-stop DR sensors? Interesting. I know it's not still camera, but they can make it for still too, can't they?


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## Ozarker (Mar 29, 2018)

cpreston said:


> Graphic.Artifacts said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I can tell Canon makes very nice cameras that seem to meet the needs of people who actually shoot video but they are not very good at making products that meet the needs of people who like to talk about shooting video on internet forums. But maybe I'm missing something.
> ...



Overtaken the C300 line? No. Not here anyway.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=34315.0


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## Ozarker (Mar 29, 2018)

Nakean said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't want to flame anybody so I'll just say this: I'd be embarrassed as heck to even suggest that the sensor tech from a $33,000 camera should be put in a FF stills camera. I had no idea people could be so detached from logic and common sense. Snowflakes indeed. Canon is *******. :
> ...



 And what am I supposed to deduce from your screen name? You don't see sarcasm and wit in that little section around my photo?  BTW: The market likes Canon pretty good. Us and our personal desires are not the market. Thinking what we personally want is what everyone, or even the majority is screaming for, is the market just ain't so. Canon does so well for a reason.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=34315.0


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## Ozarker (Mar 29, 2018)

cpreston said:


> Graphic.Artifacts said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I can tell Canon makes very nice cameras that seem to meet the needs of people who actually shoot video but they are not very good at making products that meet the needs of people who like to talk about shooting video on internet forums. But maybe I'm missing something.
> ...



And yet, 
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/industries/film-tv/pro-markets-film-avengers

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls059550382/


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## Canoneer (Mar 29, 2018)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Hang on. So Canon can make 15-stop DR sensors? Interesting. I know it's not still camera, but they can make it for still too, can't they?



I'm sure they _could_, but I'm not sure they will. The next full-frame camera expected to be released by Canon is either the new mirrorless or the 5DS II. It would be nice if the mirrorless offered 15 stops of DR, but that's probably too big of an ask for the 5DS II if they keep the pixel pitch as small as it is on the mark 1.


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## Bernard (Mar 29, 2018)

cpreston said:


> I would say that Canon makes video cameras for people in the business of trying to make a living with the camera. Their big gaping hole is the lack of 4K 60p, not because it is necessarily needed for any logistical reason, but because most producers feel they need it.



4K60P over-crank is a useful thing. You can use it to stabilize hand-held inserts and cutaways, as well as other MOS shots. I wish Canon would offer it, but it's not a deal-breaker in most cases. It just requires some extra planning so that you have an over-crank-capable camera around when you need it.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 29, 2018)

Valid points in both cases regarding 60p. The 60p on the 1DXII is quite good by most accounts but then you have all the inherent issues of having to shoot with a DSLR. Not sure why Canon hasn't addressed that but may be due to read rates and rolling shutter where the IDX's are very good. Personally I don't use 60p much because it's not fast enough for good slow motion and too edgy and jittery for almost anything else. Watching 4k 60p for too long gives me a headache and conforming down to 30p never seems to look right. But, I'm primarily a stills shoot so far from an expert at such things and I can understand that many people would consider that a must have even if they don't use it everyday.


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## miketcool (Mar 29, 2018)

As someone who works in the industry, this is a big deal for two reasons:

1) Canon has a sensor upgradable cinema camera. I doubt this will be a one-time deal, as they have conveniently placed their office that does hardware upgrades in the same neighborhood as ARRI. My guess is they are looking to take their business while RED continues to offer cameras that make post a budget and workflow nightmare.

2) Canon is going to continue evolving their cinema lenses for FF and DPAF. This means further growth in their Cine-Servo series. Hopefully we also see anamorphic Canon glass. Because you cannot readily swap a PL mount in for the EF mount, Canon must be working on anamorphic glass.

It lands in July and we are already deep in development and shooting this year. The industry has bounced back after last year and demand will be high. Looking forward to seeing the C700 FF on set.


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## sanj (Mar 29, 2018)

cpreston said:


> Graphic.Artifacts said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I can tell Canon makes very nice cameras that seem to meet the needs of people who actually shoot video but they are not very good at making products that meet the needs of people who like to talk about shooting video on internet forums. But maybe I'm missing something.
> ...



??? What logical reason does one need to shoot slow motion??


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## jedy (Mar 29, 2018)

cpreston said:


> Graphic.Artifacts said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I can tell Canon makes very nice cameras that seem to meet the needs of people who actually shoot video but they are not very good at making products that meet the needs of people who like to talk about shooting video on internet forums. But maybe I'm missing something.
> ...


People (mostly those on forums) really need to separate the DSLR video market from the cine camera market. Two different markets. One aimed at the budget concious filmmaker/vlogger and the other for serious professional filmmakers. Speaking of big gaping holes, why haven't Canon added focus peaking and zebras to their DSLR's yet? Also the lack of a clean HDMI output (is the 5DIII really the only DSLR with one?) is baffling. Serious filmmakers (without the cine cam budget) are much better served elsewhere. Heck, even a secondhand Blackmagic 4k Production Camera and a decent set of lights (all good filmmakers should have good lighting anyway) is a better option than a Canon DSLR for video. You get the correct codecs for broadcast quality video for starters.


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## cpreston (Mar 29, 2018)

sanj said:


> cpreston said:
> 
> 
> > Graphic.Artifacts said:
> ...



"Logistical". You can shoot slow motion on the C300II, just not in 4K. Most commercial content is not being delivered in 4K and most viewers are not going to be able to view the difference between 2K at slow motion and 4K at standard frame rates. It is possible to work around the 4K 60p issue if you are stuck only using a c300 II.


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## cpreston (Mar 29, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> cpreston said:
> 
> 
> > Graphic.Artifacts said:
> ...



In my market on the east coast doing corporate work, I see far more FS7's than C300 II's. This is almost entirely due to the price difference and the 4k 60p. A few people also prefer the ergonomics. Personally, I find the FS7 very frustrating after coming from a C300 II. The controls, recording formats, and viewing options feel very limited. If I was to shoot a narrative, I would go with the C300 II every time. It seems that the C300 II is more popular on the west coast.


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## syder (Mar 29, 2018)

Bernard said:


> cpreston said:
> 
> 
> > I would say that Canon makes video cameras for people in the business of trying to make a living with the camera. Their big gaping hole is the lack of 4K 60p, not because it is necessarily needed for any logistical reason, but because most producers feel they need it.
> ...



C200 and 1dxii both do 4k60p. It is useful on occasion for some people, but it really depends what you're shooting.


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## stevelee (Mar 29, 2018)

Lots of people don't like the look of video shot with shorter shutter speeds. At higher frame rates, shutter speeds are naturally faster. If you output 60fps footage to 30fps, it can still look like it was shot with too fast a shutter speed, depending upon motion in the scene. Some blur can make the action look more natural.


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## ajm (Mar 30, 2018)

stevelee said:


> Lots of people don't like the look of video shot with shorter shutter speeds. At higher frame rates, shutter speeds are naturally faster. If you output 60fps footage to 30fps, it can still look like it was shot with too fast a shutter speed, depending upon motion in the scene. Some blur can make the action look more natural.



Depending on the shoot, I often shoot 60p with a 1/60 shutter. It makes it look more cinematic with more motion blur. 60, 90 and 120 are all exceptable shutter speeds to shoot with when shooting 60p. Similar to The Hobbit being filmed at 48fps with a 72 shutter. All divisable by 12, 24 and 48. 180 degree shutter minus 24 shutter steps, which divides evenly with 48fps. 24x3 = 72.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 30, 2018)

I had considered adding an FS7 at one point due to it's high frame rate capabilities. However, as with many things Sony, the specs seemed to be a little bit "aspirational". I couldn't find anybody who seemed to be having much success using it above 120 FPS. Once I had the 1DX II, which also shoots (admittedly soft) 1080P 120fps, there didn't seem to be much point. By all accounts the FS7 is an excellent camera but if I had to choose between DPAF on the Canon C300 II and 60P on the FS7 I'd go with the DPAF every time.


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