# New 7D Mark II - Difficulty with Sharp Photos



## KfirGuy (Nov 3, 2017)

Good evening, 

I was hoping to maybe get some thoughts/input from the group. I recently became the owner of a Canon-refurbished 7D Mark II, as what seemed like a deserving replacement to my 6 year old and well used 7D. Took it out today and the results were ... well somewhat alarming. With my 7D, I never questioned whether images would be sharp, notwithstanding atmospheric conditions or horrendous panning by me. However the F8.0, 1/800 sunny stuff was always a slam dunk. Not so with the 7DII today. I would say maybe 5% of the overall images were on part with my 7D's usual performance, despite using the same glass, etc. I am also talking about images being WAY out of focus, soft, blurry, etc. I have some examples below. Anyone have thoughts on what may be driving this?

I shoot aircraft primarily, and this type of airliner photography is the easiest stuff (relatively slow, predictable paths, etc). I was somewhat taken aback to have such disparate results between the 7D and 7DII... however I can only assume it is something wrong with my set-up?

AF: Servo
AF Points: Large Zone AF (central zone selected)
Case 2 
Focus Priority


First up is a photo from the same place, same lens on my old 7D. Next up are a pair of examples from the 7DII... which are far from the worse. 



7D1 by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr 



7D2 by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr



7D2ii by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr



7DIII by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr


I'd appreciate any thoughts y'all may have. After spending money on a new body, I shudder to think I may now have a serious problem with softness ahead of me


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 3, 2017)

The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?


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## KfirGuy (Nov 3, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?



That was where I was going next... although with these results I wonder if the term macro adjustment might be more in order. 

Are there any micro adjust methods you recommend? I know when I’ve dealt with it before, it involved a tripod, single shot AF reset to infinity before each frame, 50 times your focal length from the target (or something like that) and done at your highest focal length (although I see the 7DII seems to be able to accept adjustments at both ends of the focal length spectrum for my 100-400 MK 1)


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## Talys (Nov 3, 2017)

KfirGuy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?
> ...



Reikan FoCal is super easy to do and produces good results, IMO. However, for 7DII I don't think there's fully automated mode, meaning that you need to defocus your lens for each try instead of just hitting a button and coming back after a few minutes. I could be wrong.

Spyder LensCal works well, and is what I used for years. And, there are cheap knockoffs that essentially do the same thing. However, the LensCal folds up and mounts on a light stand, which is nice for calibrating at a distance. Plus, it's sturdy and the prop-up scale sits at 45 degrees.

And then, Dot Tune, is popular, but it's never been my thing.


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## rpt (Nov 3, 2017)

Talys said:


> KfirGuy said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



+1 for FoCal. Neuro suggested it and AFMA has been a breeze ever since. I use it for both my 5D3 and 7D2. You won’t regret it.


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## KfirGuy (Nov 3, 2017)

Thank you both. I think I’ll give it a go. Hopefully it can sort out the issues and get everything nominal. I’m still a bit staggered by the magnitude of the mis-adjustment if you will, none of my bodies have ever been as out of whack with my lenses.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 3, 2017)

Let us know how it works out. If you're close to an end of the range for multiple lenses, it might be worth contacting Canon.


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## Valvebounce (Nov 3, 2017)

Hi Talys.
You are correct that FoCal doesn't have a fully automatic mode, but the only thing you have to do is input the adjustments, +20 +10 +5 etc. It will drive the lens and do all the defocusing etc, it is a bit harder than the fully automatic mode but it will audibly notify you it is ready if I remember correctly. 

Cheers, Graham.



Talys said:


> KfirGuy said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


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## KfirGuy (Nov 3, 2017)

Thank you all, I will definitely try to get to work on doing a Microadjust.


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## Don Haines (Nov 3, 2017)

When I got my 7D2, I set up the AF cases wrong.... it caused great frustration until I figured out my mistake(s)


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## unfocused (Nov 3, 2017)

I hate to go against the flow, but I am not so sure micro-adjustment is the problem. I would expect that if the micro-adjustment were off, there should be some sharpness somewhere, rather than the overall lack of crispness. 

Before spending money and time on micro-adjustment, I would first test out the lens/camera combination on a stationary subject to verify that the camera and lens can give you a sharp image.

Basically, what I'm suggesting is that you determine if the new 7DII can give a sharp image under any circumstance. Shoot something with text on it, in good light and at a reasonable shutter speed and aperture with IS turned on. You need to establish the base. If it gives you sharp images at say f8, but not at f2.8 then micro-focus could be your problem. But if you get fuzzy images at f8, it's probably something else. 

The 7DII is a great camera, and I've never had any problems with it, but not every individual camera is going to be perfect. You may determine that there is something wrong with your particular camera and you need to send it back to Canon.


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## Mikehit (Nov 3, 2017)

are those photos 100% crops? if so then consider that the 7D2 has more pixels so the image will be bigger.
Also in the last image the engine is more in focus than the cockpit which suggests a focussing accuracy. Using moving subjects to decide if a camera can provide sharp images is fraught with potential errors. 
Also, lighting conditions (brightness, contrast) can all affect focus accuracy.

First - put the camera on a tripos (or solid surface) and focus manually with live view and manual focus. That will show the sharpness the optics/sensor chain are capable of
The try it with single point AF - if the firs shows the optics are OK, then this will show if the AF is working as well as it could
If that works OK then start with focus tracking. If it does not work OK then start with things like micro adjust.


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## AlanF (Nov 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> are those photos 100% crops? if so then consider that the 7D2 has more pixels so the image will be bigger.
> Also in the last image the engine is more in focus than the cockpit which suggests a focussing accuracy. Using moving subjects to decide if a camera can provide sharp images is fraught with potential errors.
> Also, lighting conditions (brightness, contrast) can all affect focus accuracy.
> 
> ...



Mike has hit it on the head. Take photos in liveview of a static object and see if it is in focus before indulging in AFMA.


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## Camerasheik (Nov 3, 2017)

Hi, I might have some good news for you. I think you made a mistake very many new 7D2 owners make, me included.

If you select one of the three expanded zones the camera will focus on the object (not necessarily the thing you are looking at) nearest to the camera. 

So if you zoom out and look at your entire image you may well find something else (tree, fence post, seagull etc) in shot that is perfectly sharp.

Take a look here: http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2014/eos7dmk2_afGuidebook.shtml

The Mk 2 is a LOT more capable than the Mk1, but that comes at the cost of complexity.


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## KfirGuy (Nov 3, 2017)

Hmmm, that is an interesting point. I took it out of that mode, switched from servo to single shot, and threw it on a tripod as a little experiment using what printed document I had handy, which was a newspaper page. I was actually remarkably impressed by how much better it was, especially given that a series of servo photos taken of static objects earlier in the day had been as soft as my previous shots. Additionally, the body proved to be perfectly sharp with my 24-105, which is good at least. 



046A9856 by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr



7D Newspaper by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr


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## unfocused (Nov 4, 2017)

Camerasheik said:


> ...I think you made a mistake very many new 7D2 owners make, me included...
> 
> ...the camera will focus on the object (not necessarily the thing you are looking at) nearest to the camera...
> 
> ...The Mk 2 is a LOT more capable than the Mk1, but that comes at the cost of complexity...





KfirGuy said:


> Hmmm, that is an interesting point. I took it out of that mode, switched from servo to single shot, and threw it on a tripod as a little experiment using what printed document I had handy, which was a newspaper page. I was actually remarkably impressed by how much better it was, especially given that a series of servo photos taken of static objects earlier in the day had been as soft as my previous shots. Additionally, the body proved to be perfectly sharp with my 24-105, which is good at least.



It if is any consolation, this is a problem not only with the 7DII but with all the high-end Canon focus systems -- including the 5D and 1D. As someone who shoots a lot of sports, I have found that I often get the best results with single point or possibly one of the more conservative point expansion modes. In fact, I've read articles from top Canon professional sports photographers who admit they shoot mostly in single point mode. 

I've had the 7DII for more than two years, the 1DX II for a year and a half and I'd say I'm still trying to master the focusing system -- although I am a slow learner.


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## Macoose (Nov 4, 2017)

Kfirguy,

I upgraded to the 7D2 from the 40D so the learning curve for the AF system was rather steep for me. Since you're coming up from the 7D, you are familiar with Zone AF. 
I will agree with Camerasheik that you should read the AF Guide. It helped me a lot. Also, become familiar with the cases. They do help. I only wish that Canon would have listed which Case works for Rodeos and Drag Racing. Either way, If I can figure it out you will too. 

You can also select which AF point the camera will start with in 65pt AF. Initial or Manual. (p127 in the manual)

Good Luck!


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## KfirGuy (Nov 4, 2017)

I appreciate all the advice and encouragement guys. I had an opportunity to shoot something this afternoon that was a one-time deal, and sadly all I had was the new 7DII with me. The photos came out pretty poor, despite all the reading and fiddling with the settings I had done. So that is a bit of a bummer :'( I'll get the hang of it at some point... I hope.


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## Steve Dmark2 (Nov 4, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> When I got my 7D2, I set up the AF cases wrong.... it caused great frustration until I figured out my mistake(s)



Same for me. Ever since I get a very good keeper rate.

Cheers
Stefan


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## Valvebounce (Nov 4, 2017)

Hi KfirGuy. 
Try a quick test, put a mark on a brick wall put the camera on a tripod then focus on the mark at an angle of between 30 and 45 degrees, this should enable you to see if there is some sharp area of wall in the shot and where abouts it is in relation to the focus point. 
Also when the 7DII came out there was quite a fuss about tilted sensors or something like that which was causing soft shots. 

Cheers , Graham. 




KfirGuy said:


> I appreciate all the advice and encouragement guys. I had an opportunity to shoot something this afternoon that was a one-time deal, and sadly all I had was the new 7DII with me. The photos came out pretty poor, despite all the reading and fiddling with the settings I had done. So that is a bit of a bummer :'( I'll get the hang of it at some point... I hope.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 4, 2017)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi KfirGuy.
> Try a quick test, put a mark on a brick wall put the camera on a tripod then focus on the mark at an angle of between 30 and 45 degrees, this should enable you to see if there is some sharp area of wall in the shot and where abouts it is in relation to the focus point.
> Also when the 7DII came out there was quite a fuss about tilted sensors or something like that which was causing soft shots.
> 
> Cheers , Graham.



The issue with the brick wall is that the camera may choose to not focus on the mark, There is a simple printout chart that attempts to address the issue by isolating the focus point. There are others that are more complex, but they work if they use the principle of forcing the AF to focus on a known spot. AF will prefer a horizontal target over vertical, given a choice.

This is a very old (10 Yrs) article that is still relevant today, and has detailed instructions about how the chart works and how to use it.

http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/focus-chart


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## Valvebounce (Nov 4, 2017)

Hi Mt Spokane. 
Whilst I don't doubt that you are correct about the issues you mention, I have found that selecting the centre point pretty much forces the camera to focus where you point it. 
I use FoCal to do my tests and adjustments but have used this on a concrete sea wall using the expansion joint as a target to verify with longer lenses that I cannot do indoors at the recommended multiples of the focal lengths. 
As I believe that KfirGuy is just starting down this road and does not have any dedicated targets etc I thought this might get him started. 

Cheers, Graham. 



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Valvebounce said:
> 
> 
> > Hi KfirGuy.
> ...


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## Don Haines (Nov 4, 2017)

If this were me, the first question that I would try to answer is “can the camera take a sharp picture in live view”?

If it can not, send the camera back. If it can, then you have to figure out how to get the AF system to work right...

Put the camera in live view, use a lower ISO, something under 400. If you use a higher ISO, the noise can cause confusion.... use a sharp lens, primes are best.... with the reasonably high pixel density you don’t want the lens to be the source of your problems. 

Don’t shoot wide open, lenses are usually at their best one or two stops down.....

Use a tripod, a solid one..... vibration is not your friend.....

“They” tell you to shoot at 1/focal length for shutter speed..... That was good advice for a 10Mpixel FF camera, but you have a 20Mpixel crop.... try for twice that speed.....

Hope this helps.....


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## takesome1 (Nov 5, 2017)

Simple fix is this.
It sounds like you should have a body with warranty.

Call Canon and tell them the problem.
They will give you instructions. 
Pack the body up with the lenses you normally use.
Ship it to them and they will mate your body to the lenses and do the adjustments so it will be set to zero.

No charge and they send it back.

Then if you want to do the micro adjustments that has been recommended go ahead.

I have done this before and the turn around was about a week.


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## Mancubus (Nov 5, 2017)

I've had 6 DSLR Cameras in my life, the 7D2 was by far the worst one.

It would give me exactly the same blurry cr*p you been getting on perfect shooting conditions. At 1/8000 and F/8 there is simply no excuse for missing focus and getting anything other than ultra sharp.

I tried sending the camera to Canon to have it checked, they returned it to me exactly as I sent. I sold it to a shop (at a loss) and got myself a 5D3, much much better.

There is something REALLY wrong with a significant number (if not all) 7D2 cameras and nothing has been done. It must be a sensor vibration or something like that, I hated that camera with passion.


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## Ray-uk (Nov 6, 2017)

Mancubus said:


> There is something REALLY wrong with a significant number (if not all) 7D2 cameras and nothing has been done. It must be a sensor vibration or something like that, I hated that camera with passion.



Oh, so because you had one and didn't get on with it that means they are all bad :

Strange really because there are thousands of satisfied 7D Mk II users outthere producing excellent sharp photos.


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## takesome1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ray-uk said:


> Mancubus said:
> 
> 
> > There is something REALLY wrong with a significant number (if not all) 7D2 cameras and nothing has been done. It must be a sensor vibration or something like that, I hated that camera with passion.
> ...



It means there were many that were. I can attest to that and there are others that can as well. 

and,

Oh, are you saying that satisfied 7D Mk II users may only be a few thousand?


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## ourmark (Nov 11, 2017)

I've noticed a couple of things that reduce my hit rate when tracking moving subjects with the 7D2: Large AF zones and IS. Choosing a single AF point and turning off IS works best for me.


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## Steve Dmark2 (Nov 12, 2017)

Ray-uk said:


> ...
> Strange really because there are thousands of satisfied 7D Mk II users outthere producing excellent sharp photos.



Count me into this group


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## JoSto (Nov 12, 2017)

Are both photos of the plane from the same day? My experience is that image quality degenerats very quick at long distances if the air is not very clean. 

If you use your telephoto lens mainly at (very) long distances than make sure that you calibrate the lens with AFMA. Out of the box the focus is designed to work best at medium distances. Go out and find a turrent clock in your town. Focus from about 1 mile away and fine tune the AF unil the pictures are sharp. Keep in mind that this might make the AF worse on short distances.

EDIT: PS: I use both the 1DX and the 7d2. I found out the the 7d2 can challange the 1DX if light is good. I have no problems with my copy and will use it until it is dead. I feel zero need to upgrade to any other existing or upcoming APS-C camera


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## KfirGuy (Nov 12, 2017)

So I wanted to give a little update. I had a few experienced 7D II shooters take a look at it, and we tried it with a range of different lenses, all of which yielded results on par or worse than the examples I had posted above. On their advice, I contacted Canon. 

Canon asked me to send them some RAW files to take a look at to see if there was an issue with the settings I was utilizing. I happily complied. The next email I received from Canon instructed me to contact a 1-800 number to send the camera back to them, and informed me I could expect a refund around a week after receipt of the unit by Canon. 

I am not sure what to make of it all, honestly. I guess for now, though, my old 7D will have to soldier on until I get brave enough to buy something again.


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## langdonb (Nov 13, 2017)

You are fortunate to have discovered the problem within the return period and get a refund. I was not as lucky. 

After sending my 7DII back to Canon CPS in New York twice, with and without the 100-400 mark II lens, the focus issues were never solved. After two long trips to Southern Africa with proof of focus issues, all Canon could say was they made "electronic adjustments". Which means to me, they don't know or more likely would not admit the system was faulty. I sold the body on eBay....

At least I had my trusty 5D3 with 1.4 TC and said 100-400 to save my second trip with high keeper rates.

While I have bought several lenses and two bodies (6D and 5D3) refurbed with mostly good success (had to send 70-200 2.8 back with focus issues) i wonder if yours will be checked and then resold again as a refurb to some unsuspecting buyer!


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