# Adobe Unveils Milestone 2015 Creative Cloud Release



## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm really excited about the prospects of the new dehaze feature as I'm shooting backlit subjects a lot and the lens hood is often not long enough to prevent the "low contrast of doom" look. And I've even trained the "extend arm and hold hand/thumb in front of sun" method :-> but this is only possible if the angle is just right or you'll end up having your own hand in the frame.

Here's some information: http://prodesigntools.com/adobe-photoshop-defog-dehaze.html ... and get your CC trial/update here w/o Adobe's stupid downloader: http://prodesigntools.com/adobe-cc-2015-direct-download-links.html#more-62448

Keep your fingers crossed that the new feature will work as promised, It'll take me some time to get out older "rejected" shots and try to recover them.

Edit: removed nagging about me being faster than Mr. CR


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## sunnyVan (Jun 16, 2015)

Good to know! Thanks.


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## sunnyVan (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't know if I'm imagining things but the whole system seems to run faster after update.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 16, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Strangely, this hasn't found its way to CR as a CC update is always a biggie...



I do have to sleep some time!


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## Otara (Jun 16, 2015)

Sounds very interesting from an underwater photography perspective too, particularly from a temperate waters, not always great visibility perspective. Downloading now, will look at it in the morning.


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## keithfullermusic (Jun 16, 2015)

where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?


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## ScottyP (Jun 16, 2015)

keithfullermusic said:


> where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?



I like by his "carrot" approach better than just getting beaten with the stick. As long as they leave Lightroom as a stand-alone purchased product It is ok with me if they want to roll out improvemens mid-Cycle that go to the cloud product first. Entice people to come over voluntarily, rather than lashing them and driving them in terror before your elephants

I do think it would be shabby if they create two different Lightroom products, by never ever rolling out improvements to the non-cloud version.


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## Orangutan (Jun 16, 2015)

keithfullermusic said:


> where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?



OK, I'll step in on this one. I think this is a bit of a straw man argument: no one said exactly this, it's a bit more subtle. Personally, I think it's fine that they offer CC subscriptions; however, I ALSO want to be able to buy a perpetual license that doesn't get these major upgrades unless I choose to pay for them.

As for value, remember that CC pricing has already fluctuated quite a bit: it was announced at (I believe) $50/month, then they offered an "introductory rate" of $30/month, and are warning that that will expire soon, with the rate going back to $50/month.

For people (or businesses) whose jobs depend on CC tools, this is a reasonable deal. For amateurs and part-time pros who don't need the latest/greatest, it's a kick in the stomach.

Finally, I think a consumer software license should work like ownership of a camera: if I sell my old Canon body, Canon doesn't need to know about it. I should be able to sell (transfer) my old software licenses as well, with minimal interaction with Adobe.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Strangely, this hasn't found its way to CR as a CC update is always a biggie...
> ...



rumors never sleep :-> ... I thought these scheduled events are in the queue anyway as the release date was well known in advance. But maybe this time they synced it to europe or japan time and not to u.s. working hours? Well, I'm always happy to be quicker than the official post 



keithfullermusic said:


> where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?



Well, the CC *update* doesn't change anything about the licensing model one way or another, so probably no point in re-iterating all arguments ... though of course this *is* CR and CC comes next to DR in flamewar quality.

Question is if the new dehaze feature will make it just into CC or into the legacy LR6 release too - I didn'T look or research this yet. Otherwise some few people clinging to the outdated "purchase" option will have to commit themselves to the modern world at last


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 16, 2015)

It looks like to me...Adobe is pandering even more to the amateur market. Mobis and ipad integration is the big feature? Stock integration? Professional stock work collapsed 5 years ago, it's in a terrible mess....didn't Adobe get the memo? Unless they want to flood the stock market with iphone images of Eiffel tower and st mark's square?

Sorry but I'm not seeing any big features here for working pros...just a cynical company cashing in on the growth of serious hobbyists. If that's you, enjoy...but this is light years away from the professional tools Adobe used to develop.


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## COBRASoft (Jun 16, 2015)

DxO Optics Pro 10 has something similar, it's called 'ClearView' .


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

GMCPhotographics said:


> just a cynical company cashing in on the growth of serious hobbyists. If that's you, enjoy...but this is light years away from the professional tools Adobe used to develop.



True that about adding more "value" amateur-ish features. But it seems like smart business practice to me - they've got the monopoly in the pro market anyway, so what's left to gain there? If they still have competition it's from upstarts like DxO or AcdSee chipping away from the enthusiast market with ease of use, integration with whatnot and one-click workflows.


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## Joe M (Jun 16, 2015)

GMCPhotographics said:


> It looks like to me...Adobe is pandering even more to the amateur market. Mobis and ipad integration is the big feature? Stock integration? Professional stock work collapsed 5 years ago, it's in a terrible mess....didn't Adobe get the memo? Unless they want to flood the stock market with iphone images of Eiffel tower and st mark's square?



Indeed. The entire "CC" model is really just to bring the amateurs into the fold. I know that some of my customers who are amateur photographers used to be in awe of photoshop and what it could do. But of course, unless you actually could make money from using it (or simply have tons to spare), no one would think of spending the hundreds on it. But now, for mere dollars a month, anyone can afford it, especially when you can just turn it on and off along with the payments whenever you need it. 



GMCPhotographics said:


> Sorry but I'm not seeing any big features here for working pros...just a cynical company cashing in on the growth of serious hobbyists. If that's you, enjoy...but this is light years away from the professional tools Adobe used to develop.



Again, they seem to have realized there is more money in making their product available with features needed by the masses. Their shareholders must be quite happy. Me, I'm waiting for the upcoming DXO announcement wondering if I will finally make the switch for raw processing.


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## unfocused (Jun 16, 2015)

You guys all sound like a bunch of old geezers (and I'm way older than any of you).

I-pad and other mobile integration are "amateur" features? I don't think so. There is a whole generation of creatives coming out of school (or not even in school yet) who use their tablets in ways that I can't even imagine. These programs aren't geared toward amateurs. They are geared toward the next generation of creatives, who are designing the world we'll all live in. 

Is it a mistake for Adobe to integrate desktop applications for these mobile users? 

The biggest problem I always have with some of the Adobe apps is I can't even figure out what they would be used for. But that doesn't mean someone else who is much more tech savvy hasn't already figured it out. 

True, as a traditional desktop user, I'm not seeing a lot of changes that I need. But then, Photoshop is already so sophisticated that it would be hard to come up with a lot of new, exciting changes.

As for the new stock photo system. I think that's genius. First, anything that challenges Getty's monopolistic domination of the stock photo market is a good thing. But, having a stock photo library immediately available through Adobe could be incredibly convenient. If I'm working on an In-Design project and I need a photo now, I'm much more likely to search the Adobe site that's already there and always available and quickly look for a shot, rather than going to a third party, where I have to register, sign-in, buy credits, etc.

As a photographer, I'm also more likely to upload a few images to their stock site, since it's easy and quick. I think they are gambling that a lot of people who create with Adobe apps will try it out since it's one-stop shopping.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 16, 2015)

I have been playing with the haze filter for all of 15 minutes. As one would expect, its not a miracle filter by any means. It plays with the blues and increases contrast such that the heavier areas of the haze turn a ugly dark brown. By lifting shadows, reducing blue saturation, as well as magenta and purple, I can get colors balanced - sort of. Nothing I can do about the overall blue boosts. It takes a lot of additional pp to get the most of it, and I did not take the time. 

The boosting blue saturation was already a method I used to help with haze, this is a tiny bit better, but not much.


Here are a few I tried from old photos in Seattle while in a boat on Puget Sound. These are extreme haze situations, except for the lighthouse, which had light haze, and did not need a heavy handed adjustment.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Is it a mistake for Adobe to integrate desktop applications for these mobile users?



Certainly not, their other CC up and coming apps are entirely "pro" oriented for devleopment and testing of apps across all platforms: https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/catalog/desktop.html ... it's just in comparison to Edge or Scout the latest LR additions do seem to be a bit more oriented towards "broader" users base.



unfocused said:


> The biggest problem I always have with some of the Adobe apps is I can't even figure out what they would be used for. [...] (and I'm way older than any of you).



I wonder if one has a link to the other  ... these things those kids do nowadays :->



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The boosting blue saturation was already a method I used to help with haze, this is a tiny bit better, but not much.



Thanks for the pics, concerning the filter it's entirely possible Adobe will keep working on it and optimize it for different scenarios. If it's a convenient automatization for a common problem that's fine by me, just like red/green eye removal. it wasn't to be expected Adobe can conjure up contrast out of nothing as of course they only have the source data to work with.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 16, 2015)

unfocused said:


> You guys all sound like a bunch of old geezers (and I'm way older than any of you).



I'll be 72 in a couple of months, so I qualify as a old Geezer. I have had a tablet for a few years, and broke down and bought a Iphone the first of the year. I try to keep up with technology, but there is never enough time.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

Fyi all: The stand-alone LR 6.1 does  NOT feature the new dehaze tool, it is ONLY included in the PS/LR CC subscription releases: https://fstoppers.com/news/adobe-cc-photography-update-available-now-73795

Time to upgrade to CC after all, eh :-> ?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 16, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Fyi all: The stand-alone LR 6.1 does  NOT feature the new dehaze tool, it is ONLY included in the PS/LR CC subscription releases: https://fstoppers.com/news/adobe-cc-photography-update-available-now-73795
> 
> Time to upgrade to CC after all, eh :-> ?



That's surprising, Adobe would have to spend extra to make a separate version without it, and further revisions to LR 6 would possibly cost them even more if there are common software components involved. 

Obviously, Adobe is trying to push people toward LRCC, but why? They have a ton of customers for LR6. I'd expect that some may even consider a lawsuit, that seems reasonable.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> That's surprising, Adobe would have to spend extra to make a separate version without it



Nope, they simply disable this feature by checking the license, this is done all over the software world and not much coding work involved.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Obviously, Adobe is trying to push people toward LRCC, but why? They have a ton of customers for LR6.



They simply would like to convert them to CC customers, making more $$$ over the years than ppl skipping versions and making piracy harder at the same time.

Last not least, the "CC or no CC" debate is a thorn in their side, if subscription is generally accepted no one will threaten lawsuits as soon as they make good on their rolling release strategy (i.e. not saving new features for the next "big bang" release):



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'd expect that some may even consider a lawsuit, that seems reasonable.



I'm pretty sure Adobe's fleet of lawyers have though this through and no promises were made that all CC updates went into the non-subscription release.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 16, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> I'm pretty sure Adobe's fleet of lawyers have though this through and no promises were made that all CC updates went into the non-subscription release.



That's true, of course. The thing is, when a lawsuit goes to a jury, all bets are off. A jury could do anything, even award 10 billion dollars, and jury decisions are very difficult to overturn, and cost more than a settlement paying off the attorneys. That's why out of court settlements are usually reached where there is any doubt at all. The class action attorneys get millions while the injured parties get peanuts or maybe a autographed photo of their attorney on his new yacht 

I use CC and don't have ver 6, but I understand those who laid out the $$ thinking they were getting the same thing.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 16, 2015)

keithfullermusic said:


> where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?



here

i still hate the concept of paying for years and then having nothing to show for it

and if you also need more than just photoshop the pricing is a lot worse than the old upgrade this program and that program now and then


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 16, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Fyi all: The stand-alone LR 6.1 does  NOT feature the new dehaze tool, it is ONLY included in the PS/LR CC subscription releases: https://fstoppers.com/news/adobe-cc-photography-update-available-now-73795
> ...



I don't think it is surprising, but expected if you know Adobe.

It's also interesting that they now are willing to split code bases to try to lure people into CC when back when they insisted that splitting code bases was all but impossible and that is why they had to do away with standalone versions of products (which, I think they might not have truly done anyway since I read something about certain institutions that simply can't handle the CC model still get a standalone version although still with the CC pricing model, which is all CC is, it's a pricing/sales model, nothing more, nothing less).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 16, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> It's also interesting that they now are willing to split code bases to try to lure people into CC when back when they insisted that splitting code bases was all but impossible and that is why they had to do away with standalone versions of products (which, I think they might not have truly done anyway since I read something about certain institutions that simply can't handle the CC model still get a standalone version although still with the CC pricing model, which is all CC is, it's a pricing/sales model, nothing more, nothing less).



If you can download it, you can put it on a DVD. All that's required is a installer, and that is downloaded as part of the CC package, so it can be downloaded as well.

I'd expect that many corporations and government entities would refuse a CC like model due to security concerns, if nothing else. The large company where I worked would never allow that.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 16, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Adobe are doing exactly what they said they would do when they first announce CC, they are sending new features to CC as and when they are stable enough for release and they are holding those features back for new model releases on the perpetual license model. How else would they get anybody to every buy LR 7 if LR 6 updates give them everything for free? Get real, they are a business.

You paid for your perpetual license for the feature set it had when you got it, not on the promise that you would get more, even though things like ACR updates are thrown in for free.

This constant Adobe bashing really is pathetic.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'd expect that many corporations and government entities would refuse a CC like model due to security concerns, if nothing else. The large company where I worked would never allow that.



Adobe doesn't have an offline/intranet option for cc at all? I can hardly imagine that with an app suite of that size, for example Microsoft has their license servers for intra-networks so that clients aren't required to connect to the open internet.



privatebydesign said:


> This constant Adobe bashing really is pathetic.



It's a nice distraction from the constant Sonikon bashing though


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## unfocused (Jun 16, 2015)

Well, I know uploading the newest version on the first day is always a mistake...but, I did it anyway. So now the desktop panels for the Nik and OnOne plug ins have vanished (from Photoshop). If anyone has any secrets for getting these back, I'd sure like to hear them.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Well, I know uploading the newest version on the first day is always a mistake...but, I did it anyway. So now the desktop panels for the Nik and OnOne plug ins have vanished (from Photoshop). If anyone has any secrets for getting these back, I'd sure like to hear them.



Most likely there are files left in the "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CC 2014" folder that PS 2015 doesn't find for one way or another. Your options are:

1. deinstall/reinstall plugins and let 'em find the new PS2015 folder, and hope the plugins manufacturers don't want to cash in by making you pay to get new, ps-2015 working versions 

2. move all files from the PS2014 folder to the PS2015 one ... but you need to link (ntfs directory junction) the old folder to the new or the moved files won't be seen by the plugin's uninstallers and left behind should you ever want to uninstall them.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 16, 2015)

keithfullermusic said:


> where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?



You seem to imply that this update actually includes some real improvements to the existing LR and PS? Can you please guide me as I see none.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 16, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I'd expect that many corporations and government entities would refuse a CC like model due to security concerns, if nothing else. The large company where I worked would never allow that.
> ...



My belief is that they do, certainly Thom Hogan, who seems to have a decent bit of insider knowledge, has eluded to their being a connection free option for some.

It is Canon bashing most of the time, not Sonikon bashing, and yes whilst it is a welcome break from that I'd say they are both pretty pathetic and a poor use of time.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 16, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> If you can download it, you can put it on a DVD. All that's required is a installer, and that is downloaded as part of the CC package, so it can be downloaded as well.
> 
> I'd expect that many corporations and government entities would refuse a CC like model due to security concerns, if nothing else. The large company where I worked would never allow that.



With the terrible sub-par internet I have to work with I really, really need to do this if possible. If you know how to do it please share your insights. 

I have checked the internet and asked Adobe - but no dice. Cannot even find out how to download an update and get it sent on a stick to have CC update take the update from the stick.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> I have checked the internet and asked Adobe - but no dice. Cannot even find out how to download an update and get it sent on a stick to have CC update take the update from the stick.



The link to the offline installers is in the first post, simply follow the instruction (i.e. first login to adobe's site, then download files through direct links). Unpack. Install. Enjoy.



Maiaibing said:


> keithfullermusic said:
> 
> 
> > where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?
> ...



People obviously didn't understand the new rolling release update model yet and expect every month to be x-mas ... with cc, it's *frequent* updates with *minor* improvements, just like dehaze in lr-cc.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 16, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > I have checked the internet and asked Adobe - but no dice. Cannot even find out how to download an update and get it sent on a stick to have CC update take the update from the stick.
> ...



Thank you. I'll try. Interesting as I have a written response from Adobe support that its not possible to update CC offline.


Maiaibing said:


> You seem to imply that this update actually includes some real improvements to the existing LR and PS?





Marsu42 said:


> People obviously didn't understand the new rolling release update model yet and expect every month to be x-mas ... with cc, it's *frequent* updates with *minor* improvements, just like dehaze in lr-cc.



Which means there are none real improvement to be seen - and so far we still can only hope to see any materialize. That's - maybe - OK for now as not so much time has passed. But the verdict on what long time value we will get as Adobe pushes people into the subscription model is certainly still out.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 16, 2015)

*Do not update CC today!!*



unfocused said:


> Well, I know uploading the newest version on the first day is always a mistake...but, I did it anyway. So now the desktop panels for the Nik and OnOne plug ins have vanished (from Photoshop). If anyone has any secrets for getting these back, I'd sure like to hear them.



Latest info from Adobe support on missing RAW update for PSCC:
"Our engineering team is currently working on this issue to get fixed, so please try to install the update after 24 hours."

____
CC2015 subscription and successfully updated both. 

However Lightroom now no longer finds or opens Photoshop; and I have plain vanilla installations on the c-drive. Ridiculous bad programming. 

I'm sure I'll find how to quickly fix this manually on the net. But still.

UPDATE: Real problem unsolved...
So I got LRCC to open PSCC as it should. But when it does LR complains that RAW needs to be updated in PSCC to version "9" or such using the update tool. Looked in PSCC - and correctly its some variant of version "8". Have to wonder why this was not updated automatically. Seriously Adobe??

Anyway, so I click "update" in PSCC but now Creative Cloud tells me I already have the latest version of PSCC and nothing happens when I try clicking the update button.

Anyone know a backdoor to manually download and install the latest RAW for PSCC?

UPDATE II: Maybe resolved
Seems to be a known problem. Adobe support has a support article with a link to a manual download for those in need.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Interesting as I have a written response from Adobe support that its not possible to update CC offline.



That's true, you need a 3rd party app for that (google is your big brother friend) but nothing's wrong about it if you're running properly licensed apps.



Maiaibing said:


> Which means there are none real improvement to be seen - and so far we still can only hope to see any materialize. That's - maybe - OK for now as not so much time has passed. But the verdict on what long time value we will get as Adobe pushes people into the subscription model is certainly still out.



I'm just a LR user, but from what I read about the whole cc range there were major performance improvements for example for indesign - so you need to see the whole picture if they do a suite update. And these "under the hood" overhauls are certainly more difficult to do than to add your odd feature like dehaze to keep end users happy and provide some food for blog authors.


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## bitm2007 (Jun 16, 2015)

> UPDATE: Real problem unsolved...
> So I got LRCC to open PSCC as it should. But when it does LR complains that RAW needs to be updated in PSCC to version "9" or such using the update tool. Looked in PSCC - and correctly its some variant of version "8". Have to wonder why this was not updated automatically. Seriously Adobe??
> 
> Anyway, so I click "update" in PSCC but now Creative Cloud tells me I already have the latest version of PSCC and nothing happens when I try clicking the update button.
> ...



Had the same problem. Solved it by selecting "Manage My Account" in Photoshops Help menu, then entering my Adobe password. Then at the Adobe ID screen, selected your user name (top right between Seach and Adobe menu's). Then sign out on the next sceeen (under manage account, top right).

Restart your system, and launch the Adobe application manager. The Lightroom 9.1 update, should now be available to download.


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## grahamsz (Jun 16, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > That's surprising, Adobe would have to spend extra to make a separate version without it
> ...



That part is easy, the difficult part is interoperability. What happens if I export a lightroom cc catalog which uses an adjustment slider that isn't in lightroom 6? The business rules there are tricky, does lightroom just undo that change the next time the image is exported? That seems like it's a big deal for some workflows.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

grahamsz said:


> That part is easy, the difficult part is interoperability. What happens if I export a lightroom cc catalog which uses an adjustment slider that isn't in lightroom 6?



Easy, too - they already covered this with the advanced mask editing available for ps cc 2014 but not lr5. If you import an acr file lr renders it without problems, but you cannot change anything about the feature as the gui (slider, buttons, whatever) are gone.


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## cayenne (Jun 16, 2015)

keithfullermusic said:


> where are all the people talking about how CC is a terrible idea/value and how adobe will never update their products?


Well, frankly, I'm still on CS6 and I've not seen anything so groundbreaking that I have to have the latest. The mobile and connected stuff mean virtually nothing to me, so that's not a draw for me.

They took away the oil paint filter, something I did use for some things...

I'd love to upgrade if they could re-introduce some sort of stand alone perpetual license. I don't see why they cannot offer that too, hell LR6 is still available in CC and non-CC modes.

I just don't see anything so compelling that I am willing to *rent* my software.

I'll hold on awhile longer as long as CS6 does the job I need, but I'm looking at some competitors and well, in a few years I think they will give all the Adobe tools a run for their money and I may switch. 

Hell, for video, look at Blackmagic's offerings...the editing in Davinci Resolve is really coming along to compete with Premier and FCPX, and with the new Fusion tool that means After Effects might have a new challenger. Affinity Photo is looking pretty good possibly as an up and comer for PS work, as a couple others are I've been toying with. They aren't there yet, but at some point in the future, the people that don't want the *rental* CC mode will have valid alternatives.

I would say that Adobe should re-evaluate and say "Hey, why not address BOTH markets"...those that want to rent their software and have the latest and greatest immediately, and those that still want standalone, and not have the always connected requirement. 

Just my $0.02,

cayenne


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 16, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



OK, fair point there (so long as the stuff does show up in LR7 or whatever the next one is).


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> OK, fair point there (so long as the stuff does show up in LR7 or whatever the next one is).



Well, and if not? They're perfectly free to license their software any way they like unless you've got an existing license agreement ensuring getting feature updates in big chunks for non-perpertual licenses. If that bothers you, you missed the opportunity to speak up when they bought the various competing companies and gained a near monopoly :-\


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 16, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > OK, fair point there (so long as the stuff does show up in LR7 or whatever the next one is).
> ...



Yeah they are free, I was just saying then when I said above is true (and not entirely unexpected, even though they've claimed they wouldn't do such a thing).

Anyway, I don't even use LR.
Maybe one day if it gets stuff far behind PS CS6 for ACR.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Maybe one day if it gets stuff far behind PS CS6 for ACR.



Both are using the same acr engine, and I have to say the latest updates are really useful and the improvements add up to "significant" for me. I use the new mask editing a lot (draw a circle or gradient and add/substract from that with the brush)....

... and just now got dehaze to work, and my first impression on some backlit shots is that its algorithm is far smarter than just a few global contrast and color/curve adjustments. I'm actually very surprised that this feature lives up to the marketing/preview talk from Adobe.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 17, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



When did Adobe ever say they would update all new features into perpetual license products?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 17, 2015)

I just had a 2nd update to photoshop cc, apparently a fix already? 


Everything seems to be working as expected - so far, but I haven't spent much time with it.


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## Joe M (Jun 17, 2015)

unfocused said:


> True, as a traditional desktop user, I'm not seeing a lot of changes that I need. But then, Photoshop is already so sophisticated that it would be hard to come up with a lot of new, exciting changes.



There you go. That's what it's all about, at least for me. And that is why I'm still using the very much dated CS6. Nothing amazing enough has warranted an update. And still with this new "update", nothing of significance to me has been added. It is indeed very sophisticated and there are elements of the program that to this day I still do not use because I don't need them. However, something new and exciting can be created and that's ever better raw processing. That is what has motivated me over the years to go from one version to the next (and skip others altogether). Well, that and the fact that at some point previous versions would not support the latest camera bodies (and yes, I know about dng converter but that's not the path I enjoy taking). I'm not looking for excitement, I'm looking for better performance.


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## yablonsky (Jun 17, 2015)

I tried the new dehaze slider in Camera Raw 9.1 (Photoshop CC 2015).

It is really stunning!!! Unbelievable.

I have to rework all of my Grand Canyon RAWs....


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## Maiaibing (Jun 17, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I just had a 2nd update to photoshop cc, apparently a fix already?
> 
> 
> Everything seems to be working as expected - so far, but I haven't spent much time with it.



Yes. There were even more problems than the ones I mentioned above. Seems to have been an unusually crappy update. I got a mail during the night urging me to install the newest update to get rid of some of my problems including LR and PS mixing up the new and old versions. I also lost all my PS filters and had to manually reinstall them. 

All is fixed now. But it was painful and time consuming. 

It also speaks volumes about how lost you are, when you do not control the updates yourself. Another reason subscription software is to be avoided. I know many people who would have been totally lost/confused and unable to repair their CC themselves. 

I also had no way of reverting to the "old" version after Adobe installed the "update" which made it impossible for me to use PS. Something I could have done with stand alone versions within 10 min.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 17, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



when they said they'd continue making the full Lr available as perpetual license


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## privatebydesign (Jun 17, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



They never said that every *new feature* that was released for LR CC would be sent to LR6 for free.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 17, 2015)

*The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Maiaibing said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I just had a 2nd update to photoshop cc, apparently a fix already?
> ...



Just when I thought things could not get worse Adobe today upped the ante after their disastrous update failure yesterday.

When I opened PS this evening I was warned that I only had 7 days left of my trail!!!! 

Contacted a - diplomatically speaking - not very helpful helpdesk at Adobe - and said; I paid, you took the money off my credit card and I want my full subscription back.

After a while - a long while and many steps - it was confirmed that I had paid and they had my money in their pocket. So I was asked to log off and in again. However, now my programs were deleted and I was told my trail had 0 days left!!         

I'll spare you the details. But its now 1:30 in the night. I did not get any editing done - again today - and I just hope and pray its all fixed in the morning.

Welcome to Adobe's subscription services...


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## Marsu42 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Maiaibing said:


> After a while - a long while and many steps - it was confirmed that I had paid and they had my money in their pocket. So I was asked to log off and in again. However, now my programs were deleted and I was told my trail had 0 days left



I hope you have learned your lesson that complaining to a monopoly company isn't in your best interest, after all it's not like you've got much of a choice left. You should call them, politely excuse your improper behavior and hope they activate your subscription again in due course.

It's probably in the fine print of your license agreement that in case of problems with your license, you don't get any partial refund for the days w/o access to the software or they have to pay a penalty fee to you because they disabled your copy by mistake? And there's no time limit on how long it can take them to fix it?


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## Maiaibing (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Marsu42 said:


> I hope you have learned your lesson that complaining to a monopoly company isn't in your best interest, after all it's not like you've got much of a choice left. You should call them, politely excuse your improper behavior and hope they activate your subscription again in due course.



You're of course right. I'll change my style to "The-pleading-beggar-in-the-street" if Adobe is still blocking my subscription tomorrow morning.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 17, 2015)

I had no issues - so far, but with such a update, there will be problems. I'd login again using your Adobe ID, download Adobe creative cloud and reinstall. I've moved to new computers that way with no issues. I'll be doing a fresh install of Windows 10, so I expect to go thru that process.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Marsu42 said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > After a while - a long while and many steps - it was confirmed that I had paid and they had my money in their pocket. So I was asked to log off and in again. However, now my programs were deleted and I was told my trail had 0 days left
> ...



Well I have had good experiences with the Adobe support. I recently signed up for the CC subscription and in my haste I registered it to an email address that doesn't exist, 100% my fault. After a few days I went to install but couldn't 'confirm' my email, no surprises there! I got on the live chat support and after explaining the situation I was told I could cancel and reorder, I said the offer I signed up on wasn't now available so they had to do something. They said they would in 3-5 days, I said that wasn't good enough and ended the chat and called the free helpline. Within 10 minutes my mistake had been sorted out and I was downloading, for me that was good service and a fair experience sorting out an issue I had created.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Maiaibing said:


> I'll change my style to "The-pleading-beggar-in-the-street" if Adobe is still blocking my subscription tomorrow morning.



Working again. Only took a total of around 3 hours PC handling/re-installation and support and two evenings of editing time to get my Adobe subscription back up and running. :'(

As far as I can see Adobe has not extended my subscription accordingly... :


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## Hector1970 (Jun 18, 2015)

unfocused said:


> You guys all sound like a bunch of old geezers (and I'm way older than any of you).
> 
> As for the new stock photo system. I think that's genius. First, anything that challenges Getty's monopolistic domination of the stock photo market is a good thing. But, having a stock photo library immediately available through Adobe could be incredibly convenient. If I'm working on an In-Design project and I need a photo now, I'm much more likely to search the Adobe site that's already there and always available and quickly look for a shot, rather than going to a third party, where I have to register, sign-in, buy credits, etc.
> 
> As a photographer, I'm also more likely to upload a few images to their stock site, since it's easy and quick. I think they are gambling that a lot of people who create with Adobe apps will try it out since it's one-stop shopping.



I think this is genius too. The market is terrible for photographers but I'm sure Getty do well out of it.
If Adobe could completely integrate it into the software making is simple, quick and cheap to purchase a stock photo they could really eat into Getty's market dominance. Most designers / compostive photographers use Adobe products anyway. It would make the whole thing must easier. I don't like my sky, type in sky and a thousand stock skies appear, download and blend in. Adobe's problem would be building and cataloging an image database but I suppose they could just buy one of Getty's remaining competitors or do a deal with Getty (who might be sweating).

Besides that dehazing is there anything else new?

I'm surprised they don't develop some sort of BW module to push out Nik and other Plugins.
The big problem for Photoshop is the learning curve. The Plugins exploit this.
With plugins you generally just move the sliders a bit and the picture changes to your liking.
Photoshop has very sophisticated features that most users never learn to use.
I'm surprised no one has created a decent plugin to change light in photographs so that realistic beams of light can be created. You can do this in photoshop but not easily or quickly.
There is a plugin called Rays but it's not very good.
There is Knolls Red Giant Light Factory but this is strangely unsubtle. It can do beams of light but generally looks fake and the lens flares are not realistic.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 18, 2015)

Hector1970 said:


> I'm surprised no one has created a decent plugin to change light in photographs so that realistic beams of light can be created. You can do this in photoshop but not easily or quickly.



These methods are not difficult or time consuming and they look very realistic. Aaron Nace is probably the most interesting PS instructor I have come across.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phlearn+light+beams


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## Hillsilly (Jun 18, 2015)

I purchased an image via the new stock image integration last night. I buy a lot of stock images, and I was happy with the Adobe range, search options and pricing. I think its a good feature.

That being said, I had one big problem (after all, this is Adobe). I purchased the image vie the library link in Photoshop. But the image I purchased was an AI image which wouldn't open in Photoshop. Aaargghhhh!!! I had previously cancelled my full suite subscription at home, so I had to uninstall Illustrator and then reinstall a trial version. After a lot of mucking around I finally got everything to work. Hopefully it will be a bit smoother next time.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Maiaibing said:


> Welcome to Adobe's subscription services...



Service in the context of how a bull services a cow. ;D


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## Valvebounce (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*

Very eloquently put! :



AcutancePhotography said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome to Adobe's subscription services...
> ...


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## Marsu42 (Jun 19, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



privatebydesign said:


> Well I have had good experiences with the Adobe support.



We cannot tell anything about the overall support quality from a few Internet forum messages that have an opinion in one way or another. All I meant to state was that a monopoly giant has less motivation to keep users around with good support if there's no alternative anyway - the most prominent example that comes to mind is IBM in the olden days, and there's a reason Microsoft kicked their bu** back then.



privatebydesign said:


> These methods are not difficult or time consuming and they look very realistic. Aaron Nace is probably the most interesting PS instructor I have come across.



Thanks a lot - links to good yt/tutorial content are much appreciated as it's so difficult and time-consuming to tell rubbush from actual useful and competent stuff.


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## Hector1970 (Jun 19, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> These methods are not difficult or time consuming and they look very realistic. Aaron Nace is probably the most interesting PS instructor I have come across.
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phlearn+light+beams



Thanks for this. I'd actually run across it before but I paid more attention this time and it's quite a good tutorial. Thanks for pointing me to it.
Trying to find good material on youtube is difficult. Most of them want you to buy their DVD (which is natural) so they don't explain very well the technique.


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## distant.star (Jun 19, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Aaron Nace is probably the most interesting PS instructor I have come across.
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phlearn+light+beams



I agree. Nace is the most competent I've seen and does a great job explaining how to make things happen. If I were to give money to anyone for training, it would likely be him.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 19, 2015)

Joe M said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > True, as a traditional desktop user, I'm not seeing a lot of changes that I need. But then, Photoshop is already so sophisticated that it would be hard to come up with a lot of new, exciting changes.
> ...


Indeed. This update was a real snoozer.


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## pwp (Jun 20, 2015)

yablonsky said:


> I tried the new dehaze slider in Camera Raw 9.1 (Photoshop CC 2015).
> It is really stunning!!! Unbelievable.
> I have to rework all of my Grand Canyon RAWs....



+1 agree completely. (LR CC 2015)

I'd predict that the uptake of use of the dehaze filter will be so great that it will soon be moved from way down in the Effects panel to a far more sensible location in the Basic panel, may right under the Clarity slider. Dehaze is far more than a landscapers tool, it's something that is useful in all sorts of situations. 

Today I processed an event job which was by necessity flash on camera (diffused/bounced) and the 1600 iso RAWS were very high contrast. Pushed the Shadows slider way up, the Highlights slider well to the left and cut the Contrast way down. Predictably they looked pretty horrible at this point. Enter the Dehaze filter. Wow! It's a whole new look. The slight noise gain is well worth it and easily controlled.

-pw


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## Maiaibing (Jun 20, 2015)

pwp said:


> yablonsky said:
> 
> 
> > I tried the new dehaze slider in Camera Raw 9.1 (Photoshop CC 2015).
> ...



Will it also help pictures with sand/dust in the air?

UPDATE:

Tried it out. I also works with dust/sand which is nice. 

End result is more or less the same you could get before in PS (I could not use LR to do this clean up before - YMMV) - a little heavy with the saturation - but the work load is far less. I can see this being useful for some people. 

Placement of slider in LR is very curious to me. I know why its not a filter option in PS but it underlines the weakness of how PS handles RAW.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 21, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> Indeed. This update was a real snoozer.



You should try...



pwp said:


> yablonsky said:
> 
> 
> > I tried the new dehaze slider in Camera Raw 9.1 (Photoshop CC 2015). It is really stunning!!! Unbelievable. I have to rework all of my Grand Canyon RAWs....
> ...



+1, by now I re-visited a couple more of mine where I had to local-process my a** off with contrast via brushes/gradients/radials, and *bang* with dehaze it's a move of a slider. 

Probably there's a reason why Adobe added this as the first CC-only feature, if you happen to have shots that fall into the backlit or haze category it's definitely a reason to move from the outdated "ownership" model to modern rental.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 22, 2015)

Joe M said:


> 'm not looking for excitement, I'm looking for better performance.




I find it substantially faster than the first CC. 

Having White and Black in the adjustment brush is nice too, but the performance gains, for me, are remarkable.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 22, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Marsu42 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Well I have had good experiences with the Adobe support.
> ...



There was a time when Adobe Customer phone support operated out of Vancouver, WA and the help was great! The last time, It definitely sounded like it was in India. I could not understand much of what they said without it being repeated multiple times. I did get it fixed just fine, but support has taken a turn for the worse.

Adobe has admitted the issues, BTW.

http://creativepro.com/adobe-apologizes-world-poor-customer-service/


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## privatebydesign (Jun 22, 2015)

*Re: The horrors of Adobe Cloud*



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



That linked letter is six years old!


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## NorbR (Jun 22, 2015)

distant.star said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Aaron Nace is probably the most interesting PS instructor I have come across.
> ...



I'll second that as well. The quality of the Photoshop tutorials that he and the Phlearn team put out on Youtube is remarkable. I follow their channel religiously, and have learned a lot from it.

When I have a bit more time on my hands I'll go ahead and purchase their Photoshop video packages. It's about time that I learn Photoshop for real and in an organized fashion, instead of playing with it and learning a few tricks here and there, which is what I've been doing so far.


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## H. Jones (Jul 10, 2015)

This is probably pretty old, but I had a really unique moment today where the new Dehaze tool was absolutely super useful. I was out photographing a power outage to my area and snapped some pictures of the stoplights that were shut off, and my camera kept fogging up from the extreme humidity and wind of the oncoming storm. Thankfully, dehaze worked like a charm! This is the exact same processing done to each photo, but with dehaze set to +90 on the second photo. Not the best photo of my set today, but it still salvaged a bad photo to a decent one, and the result is pretty spectacular-- you'd never know the photo used to be fogged up.


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## Valvebounce (Jul 10, 2015)

Hi H. Jones. 
A fine example of dehaze, but photographing a power outage seems a bit unusual! Are you sure you weren't photographing the intersection to capture the mayhem or the accident due to no light control, perhaps get paid for the evidence? ;D
Seriously though the opportunity to capture a location normally brightly lit with the lights out does not come round too often. 
I have DxO 10 and that has ClearView for de haze and I have been very happy with the results, especially over water. 

Cheers, Graham. 



H. Jones said:


> This is probably pretty old, but I had a really unique moment today where the new Dehaze tool was absolutely super useful. I was out photographing a power outage to my area and snapped some pictures of the powerlights that were shut off, and my camera kept fogging up from the extreme humidity and wind of the oncoming storm. Thankfully, dehaze worked like a charm! This is the exact same processing done to each photo, but with dehaze set to +90 on the second photo. Not the best photo of my set today, but it still salvaged a bad photo to a decent one, and the result is pretty spectacular-- you'd never know the photo used to be fogged up.


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