# What is the 6d actually good at (*positive* fact list)?



## Marsu42 (Dec 1, 2012)

With most of the threads about what's wrong with the 6d and what a €2000 camera doesn't do that a €3000 does, I'd like to assemble a (short?) *comprehensive list of 6d characteristics that are positive* and, if these are required, might make the 6d a good purchase after all over the 7d, 5d2 or even 5d3:

We all know that Nikon has more bang for the buck, and more expensive gear is "better". I also could rave about what Canon audaciously cut from the 6d. But that's _not_ was this thread should be about.

So here's what I think (or assembled) vs. either 7d, 5d2 or 5d3:

highest dynamic range vs 5d2/5d3 - see http://www.sensorgen.info/CanonEOS_6D.html
visibly (vs 5d2) / slightly (vs 5d3) higher iso capability, esp. more usable iso12800+
less banding = higher potential for shadow recovery (esp. vs. 5d2)
center-point af up to -3lv (and probably no af assist lag like on 5d3?)
more precise center af (vs 7d/5d2, much worse than 5d3 & 6d cannot use newer lenses' precision (lensrentals))
silent shutter @3fps (same as 5d3)
gps built-in (but w/o camera direction, thanks, Canon)
wifi built-in and remote control via mobile device
long battery life (1000+ shots, but of course w/o gps or wifi)
exchangeable focusing screen for better mf with f2.8+ (vs. 5d3)
large ff viewfinder (vs. crop)
short release time (vs. 5d2, equal to 5d3)
good metering & auto-wb (vs. 5d2, equal to 5d3/7d)
hi-res lcd (vs. 5d2)
top wheel lock (vs. 5d2)
fast fps (vs. 5d2, but worse than 5d3/7d)
newer firmware (vs. 5d2/7d):
full support for rt flashes, 
in-camera multishot/hdr (but only jpg & no save source, thanks, Canon)
in-camera ca correction
7x bracketing
dual afma for zooms
servo af customization
flexible min/max auto-iso
min shutter speed setting (only up to 1/250s, thanks, Canon)
orientation-linked af point (if anyone dares to use the non-center point)


These can be positive or negative according to personal taste or other equipment (like lens' sharpness/vignetting):

full frame sensor:
small depth of field
uses the whole lens area
field of view is like 35mm film

small, but still an ok/good grip
light (while retaining weather sealing)
60d-type layout for _"right-hand only" _control
sd-card support, uhs-1 standard
less expensive means less need for insurance, worst-case (damage, theft) is less catastrophic
less innovations means proven tech = less (early adopter's) issues like compat w/ 3rd party tc (?)
larger af point edges - better to see with f2.8+, in dark environments & af points lit (probably?)

... reduced only 5d2 vs 6d: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12582.msg226467#msg226467


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## ecka (Dec 1, 2012)

Most of the 6D buttons are on the right side of the camera, which allows to operate menus (like playback or delete) using only right hand without switching from the "ready to shoot" position.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 1, 2012)

I think if you think it is going to have better high iso than the 5dmk3 putting it close to the 1dx you are kidding yourself


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## Marsu42 (Dec 1, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I think if you think it is going to have better high iso than the 5dmk3 putting it close to the 1dx you are kidding yourself



Get the raw shots, convert them and see for yourself (like I did) - why are you so sure that Canon has cut back on the sensor noise performance, too - next to everything else (like every single spec, inc. the mp count)? But of course the 6d will have the 5d2/5d3 sensor characteristics like a zig-zag dynamic range curve and not a smooth one like the 1dx, seems to be entirely different tech.


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## Under the Sun (Dec 2, 2012)

Another possible positive would be less issues and better quality control by Canon with first batch of Cameras unlike the D600. Well hopefully.


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## daniemare (Dec 2, 2012)

What I like about it

Over the 5DIII - It is cheaper (and I am realistic enough that this means certain features are given up)

Over the 5DII - It is newer. It is smaller. It is lighter. Has GPS and WiFi. And I know it is still not proven but I am sure better IQ. Takes my SD cards (I do not have CF cards)

Over the D600 - Well it takes my EF lenses and EX flash  , so really the rest of the spec list is a moot point

Over the 7D - it is FF

Over my 500D - it is FF. better sealed. better IQ. better focus. better view finder.


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## ScottyP (Dec 2, 2012)

Well, at least if you listen to chatter here and elsewhere, it would be hailed if it can find focus in dim light without an embarassing pause, and a seizure-inducing spell of of pre-flashing and buzzing.

Actually, I would be happy if it could work well on the center point, including in dim light, and then work as well (or even a little better?) on ISO noise than the 5D3. Don't know what use I would have for GPS, but then I don't use video either, and yet it is in all the cameras. 

Really, the ISO thing is my only real criterion other than the inherent properties of "full-framedness".


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## verysimplejason (Dec 2, 2012)

daniemare said:


> What I like about it
> 
> Over the 5DIII - It is cheaper (and I am realistic enough that this means certain features are given up)
> 
> ...



;D Seems we're on the same boat. I'm not dissatisfied with my 500D. I can get the best pictures out of it even if it's outdated. I just want to go FF and its better IQ. 6D is it. I'll just wait a bit more for prices to simmer down. If I have Nikon glass and flash, my decision would be different.


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## CreationHeart (Dec 2, 2012)

very cheap FF camera, quality built, clean high ISO performance - at least as good as 5D3, super small and light, fast focusing in low light.

Never tested its tracking though. 

Cheers
Felix


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## MintMark (Dec 2, 2012)

I would add high resolution LCD (smaller than 5d3 but same number of dots) and a larger viewfinder than any crop camera.


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## MayaTlab (Dec 2, 2012)

With lenses faster than f2.8, the AF points will be easier to see than with translucent LCD focusing screen display cameras, and, additionally, the AF point will be able to be lit up in red in the dark, if I'm correct.
The faint AF points display is one of the things that annoys me most with my 5DIII.


The grip is very good for a camera of this class.


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## DanielW (Dec 2, 2012)

daniemare said:


> What I like about it
> 
> Over the 5DIII - It is cheaper (and I am realistic enough that this means certain features are given up)
> 
> ...



Almost the same for me, except that I don't care about small size or GPS/WiFi. In fact, I have a 60D and wish it was just a tad bigger, but it's alright. On the other hand, weight matters, and GPS and WiFi only adds a few grams without benefit (I guess), in my case. Good points for me:
- Affordable first FF
- IQ in low-light
- Shallower DoF than my 60D
- Allows me to use the good-and-now-very-cheap-for-what-it-offers 24-105 f/4L and stop thinking what to get for a decent wide-angle I could use whenever I upgrade to FF (main reason for me)
- Good battery life
Cheers


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## Dylan777 (Dec 2, 2012)

Very nice comparision Marsu42. 

You left out the KING KONG - 1D X ;D


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## Marsu42 (Dec 2, 2012)

MintMark said:


> I would add high resolution LCD (smaller than 5d3 but same number of dots) and a larger viewfinder than any crop camera.



Added, plus some other improvements over the 5d2. The list actually is much longer than I thought it would be, but of course not weighted against the price, the 5d3 or esp. Nikon's d600.



Dylan777 said:


> Very nice comparision Marsu42.
> You left out the KING KONG - 1D X ;D



Thanks - and the 1dx is really in an entirely different league, not only considering the price but also the heavy and bulky camera body. The list is rather a shared decision help for me what ff camera to buy...


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## Ryan_W (Dec 3, 2012)

Awesome list - thanks for putting it together. Since I started using the 5dmkIII at work, all I've been wishing for was a lighter, less complicated camera for personal use - specifically one with a less complex autofocus system.

Tough to say until I see more reviews but with the early discounts on kit lenses I'm really hoping to see prices come down a touch after the holidays.


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## bycostello (Dec 6, 2012)

if you wanna take photos it is a great camera.... if you want images of lens targets etc.. who know or cares...


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## RLPhoto (Dec 11, 2012)

60D ergos. Errr....

Still a newer camera than the 5D2 though.


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## tomscott (Dec 11, 2012)

Marsu42 will you please just buy a full frame camera before you drive us all insane


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## ahsanford (Dec 11, 2012)

All should check out Carnathan's ISO tests of 6D vs. 5D3. 
The 6D actually slightly outperforms the 5D3 in higher ISO settings:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx


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## Ryan708 (Dec 11, 2012)

I want one. The high ISO reports sold me over the 5dII. I have a 60D and have got very fluid with it, altho the 9 AF points all correspond to a spot on the D-pad. 11 Is going to be interesting to choose with a D-pad. I think I would rather see 8 cross type like the 60D, and the super sensitive -3EV center. Or maybe the 7D AF, although I have heard complaints about that as well.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 11, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Marsu42 will you please just buy a full frame camera before you drive us all insane



Huh? How's that? Sorry if I'm being too vocal on my decision what camera to get, it's just that for example €3000 for a 5d3 Is.A.Lot.Of.Money.To.Me. so I want to make a good decision - and I guess others are in the same boat.



ahsanford said:


> The 6D actually slightly outperforms the 5D3 in higher ISO settings:



But only very slightly if you apply stronger chroma nr to the 5d3 (nearly no iq loss), downsize the 5d3 shots a bit and then keep in mind that the 6d shots are softer.


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## rafaelsynths (Dec 11, 2012)

WIFI FEATURE ;-)


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## Area256 (Dec 11, 2012)

Ryan708 said:


> I have a 60D and have got very fluid with it, altho the 9 AF points all correspond to a spot on the D-pad. 11 Is going to be interesting to choose with a D-pad.



Overall I like the control layout of the 6D a lot better than the 60D, although it takes a bit of getting used to - I've had it for a week, and I'm still pressing the wrong buttons out of habit. However when it comes to AF point selection it's just not as good. The 60D was really fast with the D-pad + set button. The 6D doesn't work like that. You have to "scroll" through the points, and the diagonal buttons are almost pointless, since you normally hit one of the other directions instead. 

Since this is a positive list though, the way the zoom button works is awesome. You can set it to default to any zoom level you want, and with one press check your focus. Way faster then the 60D move your thumb all over the place dance.

Other button notes: the buttons have a nicer "feel" to them. They feel a little more real, like you are actually pressing something. Although on the D-pad this seems to have made the diagonals impossible to hit as noted above. The DOF preview button while still in a bad location, feels much nicer.

And switching to movie mode no longer takes a stupid amount of turning.


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## Area256 (Dec 11, 2012)

bycostello said:


> if you wanna take photos it is a great camera.... if you want images of lens targets etc.. who know or cares...



+1 I end up looking at the tests anyway, but in the end I like to take pictures, and it's a great camera for that.



rafaelsynths said:


> WIFI FEATURE ;-)



+1 This feature just awesome for some applications. I used to have really complex setup to do self portraits, and I'd frequently give up on getting the focus to work and shoot at f/8. Now I can put the focus right on my eyes with ease.

I set the camera to a 2 second timer. Use the phone to focus and make sure my location is good. Press the shutter button on the phone, and keeping my head in place, slide the phone out of view - and 2 seconds later bang! perfectly focused self-portrait on a f/1.4 lens. It's almost cheating...


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## verysimplejason (Dec 12, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Marsu42 will you please just buy a full frame camera before you drive us all insane



I find him and everybody entertaining to our otherwise boring forum.


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## Nazareth (Dec 12, 2012)

Marsu- tak all the time you need- it's a big decision- I went back and forth between the 1dx, the 5D3, the 6D or the nikon D800 or even hte D600- it was a LOT to choose from, and took me a long time to decide- I finally went with hte tank- but based on my clumsiness and need for a rugged camera- plus the blazing speed for wildlife photography- It cost me my left kidney and three toes, but I think my choice will last a good long time.

It seems htere is ALWAYS soemthign that we have to 'sacrifice' when choosing one model over another- I wanted the 6D at first, but then was disuaded because of hte slower FPS, thought about D800 because of the high resolution, but was disuaded again because of the really slow fps- thought abotu hte D600- saw soem great photos from them, and almsot went that route (Yep- almost took the plunge for all new everythign- lenses etc etc etc) but in the end- I figured the 1DX with it's massive 400,000 shutter life expectancy was a great feature- (it would be abotu 2 1/2 5D3's to + that kidn of shutter life expectancy), and hte rugged weather resitance of the 1DX sold me- bit the bulelt and went for it- Now I just need to get my ulcers from all the pre decision worryign fixed and I'll be good to go


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## Marsu42 (Dec 12, 2012)

Nazareth said:


> Marsu- tak all the time you need- it's a big decision- I went back and forth between the 1dx, the 5D3, the 6D or the nikon D800 or even hte D600- it was a LOT to choose from, and took me a long time to decide- I finally went with hte tank- but based on my clumsiness and need for a rugged camera- plus the blazing speed for wildlife photography- It cost me my left kidney and three toes, but I think my choice will last a good long time.



Thanks for understanding!

It is indeed a decision that should last for some time, i.e. the next 4-5 years, no matter what Canon releases next. And considering alternative uses for that money I can understand everyone who went through not picking the old 5d2, being surprised by the 5d3 price tag and then waiting if the 6d is an alternative. At least selling my Canon gear is no real option, I just want to have access to Magic Lantern.

Of course some or most professionals just grab the tools that suit them like a couple of 5d3 or an array of flashes, but that's not me, at least not yet. And finding out "what's best" for me when spending €5000-€6000 is not as easy as picking an ice cream flavor. But I guess I'm pretty there now, I know I want/need a ff because the iso is very limiting on the 60d (though I'll happily keep it as backup), and I'll wait a bit for the 5d3 af assist bug and price tendency because I won't buy the 6d camera at the starting price in any case - so you'll be spared further posts like the above 

Unfortunately, unlike in the US in Germany there are nearly no "deals" or "instant rebates", just the regular Canon rebates (more limited than in the US and not including the gear I want) or eBay EU imports that aren't much cheaper either. For lenses, there is no Craiglist-equivalent, and camera dealers get a heart attack if you try to haggle :-o so it's just wait and see.


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## vlim (Dec 12, 2012)

This is an apparently very good body especially for travelers but not for action photo (sport or wildlife in mouvment) and/or extreme conditions...


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## MintMark (Dec 12, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D actually slightly outperforms the 5D3 in higher ISO settings:
> ...



Softer 6D shots... do we think it's those shots in that comparison or is it 6D shots in general? It makes me a little nervous... at the moment I'm waiting for comprehensive reviews and tests, but the temptation is growing  I actually worked out how much I might get for trading in EF-S lenses and a crop camera...


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## Ryan708 (Dec 12, 2012)

I would like to keep my 60D of I got a 6D, but have a feeling im too poor for that option haha. Im still thinking about a 5dMkII but im a sucker for high-iso Low-noise.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 13, 2012)

Ryan708 said:


> I would like to keep my 60D of I got a 6D, but have a feeling im too poor for that option haha. Im still thinking about a 5dMkII but im a sucker for high-iso Low-noise.



Hmmm... why not, sell the 60D, get the 6D then get a G15? Since I doubt that you're into fast moving sports, a G15 with its super fast lens (F1.8... wow!) will enable you to get good quality pictures for those times that you leave your 6D at home... Currently I have a 500D + G11. I'm planning to get a 6D and give my wife the 500D. The G11, we can share between ourselves. Sometimes, I leave my DSLR at home and just brings the G11 due to convenience. In good light, I can still take very nice pictures of my daughter and do some macros and landscape with it.


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## eyeland (Jan 17, 2013)

Area256 said:


> Switching to movie mode no longer takes a stupid amount of turning.


Hmm, does this mean that C1 and C2 becomes viable for video settings as well? If so, then that would be another awesome feature for me.
I really find it rather frustrating that I have to turn the mode-wheel to go into video mode, especially in situations where I switch back and forth between photo and video alot (like concerts, performances etc)
As I have mentioned in many other threads (like Marsu, I am taking my time to decide and the research has almost turned into a part time job ) the only thing I need to overcome before pulling the trigger is my fear of the AF being the one thing that I will keep me thinking that I should have gone 5Dmk3. Apart from that, it looks like a killer camera for me. Now, if an app came out that would allow wifi-remote control in video mode as well, I'd have to get a new phone as well.. that would eliminate the need for a swivel LCD


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## Wildfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> keep in mind that the 6d shots are softer



What? Where did you get that from?

I've never shot a 5D3 but the 6D shots are just as sharp as my 5D2 shots... why would there be a difference in sharpness between any of the full frame sensors?


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## unfocused (Jan 17, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Nazareth said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu- tak all the time you need- it's a big decision...
> ...



Well, if I were you, I'd hurry, because it sounds like the rest of the EU is going to empty the pockets of everyone in Germany before too much longer.


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## Wildfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Wildfire said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



I can believe that. But should any of that really affect your decision to get one of the 3 cameras over the other? I would say I'm part of the pixel peeper crowd (returned a perfectly good 85mm f/1.8 just because the photographs didn't look as good at 100% as the ones from my 70-200L II) but I seriously would never consider a 5D2 over the 5D3 because the sensor produces sharper images when shooting test charts.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 17, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> i guess the 6D has a stronger AA filter then the other two cameras.



Looking at the 6d moiré, it doesn't seem to be the aa filter but that 6d has more forced noise reduction even in raw, thus the large difference in chroma noise to the 5d3. The result is about 1/3 stop more usable iso but with a visible loss of sharpness - both not important enough as a deciding factor, but it adds to the list.

... and +1 for not countering a tech discussion with "get a life, got out and shoot more" - that mixing apples and oranges with an insulting tendency because obviously even the "anti-gearheads" read these tech threads or they wouldn't be able to post replies.

Btw: I added the fact to the above list that the 6d has a high(er) dr vs. the Canon counterparts, but of course is sunk by any current Nikon sensor - see http://www.sensorgen.info/


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## sdsr (Jan 17, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Wildfire said:
> 
> 
> > I can believe that. But should any of that really affect your decision to get one of the 3 cameras over the other? I
> ...



Whether it matters depends on whether it makes a difference to the sort of photography you do. I own a 5DII and, within the past couple of months I've rented the 5DIII, 6D and D600 (the latter two simultaneously). I haven't performed any properly controlled tests - certainly nothing compared to what someone conducting a serious review involving test charts, etc. - but merely used them as I would normally use a camera (except that with the 6D and D600 I kept switching back and forth, photographing the same thing from the same place at the same time). While the D600 made good photos, not one ever struck me as superior to those I took with the 6D in any way; at most the differences were fairly small/trivial, and where I had a preference it was for the Canon, mainly because I preferred the colors. So other features were decisive - Nikon's absurdly complicated controls, the weird greenish cast to the D600's monitor, its drab viewfinder (so what if it's 100%?), etc. Relatively trivial stuff I would put up with if it made noticeably better photos, but for my purposes it didn't. I will cheerfully concede that others may conclude otherwise.

As for whether the sensor of the 6D makes "softer" photos than the 5DII or 5DIII, while it's true that it has slightly lower resolution than the sensors of the other two, that's only one factor that determines the sharpness of a photo, and those differences may work in favor of the 6D or 5DIII vs the 5DII. I wonder how many people, in a "blind" test, could tell the difference (and how many of those who have remarked on the softness of 6D images were looking at images from RAW files).


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## zim (Jan 17, 2013)

sdsr said:


> Whether it matters depends on whether it makes a difference to the sort of photography you do. I own a 5DII and, within the past couple of months I've rented the 5DIII, 6D and D600 (the latter two simultaneously). I haven't performed any properly controlled tests - certainly nothing compared to what someone conducting a serious review involving test charts, etc. - but merely used them as I would normally use a camera (except that with the 6D and D600 I kept switching back and forth, photographing the same thing from the same place at the same time). While the D600 made good photos, not one ever struck me as superior to those I took with the 6D in any way; at most the differences were fairly small/trivial, and where I had a preference it was for the Canon, mainly because I preferred the colors. So other features were decisive - Nikon's absurdly complicated controls, the weird greenish cast to the D600's monitor, its drab viewfinder (so what if it's 100%?), etc. Relatively trivial stuff I would put up with if it made noticeably better photos, but for my purposes it didn't. I will cheerfully concede that others may conclude otherwise.



+100 I doubt many people have actually done this. So what 's your preference 5D3 or 6D after using them?


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## Marsu42 (Jan 17, 2013)

sdsr said:


> I wonder how many people, in a "blind" test, could tell the difference (and how many of those who have remarked on the softness of 6D images were looking at images from RAW files).



According to a good German review 6d/5d3 on traumflieger the difference is visible when shooting details like a fern with tiny leaves - and of course they used raw files. But again, nothing very important if not shooting specialized shots like product shots or maybe some architecture.



zim said:


> So what 's your preference 5D3 or 6D after using them?



You didn't ask me, but here's my 2ct anyway  after a 3/4 hour side-to-side comparison in a shop just now: The 5d3 is clearly the more professional camera with absolutely superior af - though for some reason or another the 7d grip fits my hand better than the 5d3, 6d is also just fine.

But all things considered, the 5d3 is just like the 6d a typical Canon dslr, I doubt my current shots would improve that much when getting the higher spec'ed camera. So there's no way I'd spend nearly €3000 for a camera body with a soon-to-be-replaced sensor if I'm note having a guaranteed return of invest like a pro would. 

And last not least I'm more used to the 60d-style multicontroller and always feel like there's the buttons missing on the wheel - but that would certainly change sooner or later when using a 7d/5d2/5d3-type.

Disclaimer: Of course I would buy a 5d3 for the 6d price or exchange my 70-300L for the 70-200Lii for free.


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## emag (Jan 17, 2013)

Low noise at high ISO, WiFi. Works for me, that's a plus when it's hanging on the telescope.


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## BrettS (Jan 17, 2013)

Great list and conversation. Thanks for firing it up, Marsu!


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## verysimplejason (Jan 18, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> I think if you think it is going to have better high iso than the 5dmk3 putting it close to the 1dx you are kidding yourself


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## eninja (Jan 18, 2013)

I came from a G12, I started learning photography from it. 

I longed for a full frame camera for its depth of field, but 5D is too much. 
So I was thinking of 60D for so long, 600 came, 650 came. But I still want 60D for its built, I was attached to the number "6". 

The time came when I decide to buy, suddenly the 6D came out, How can I not buy this one. I am a happy owner of it.

Sometimes the subject is not in the focus point reach, especially in the sides and corner, so you need to focus and recompose. - I looked at this issue as, this camera is entry level, it was meant for beginner or amateur,. you need to give some space for learning, toning your skills. 

Now with my composition, i can make the focus point to be where my subject is.


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## Ryan708 (Jan 18, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Wildfire said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Im kind of a pixel peeper myself, but almost by accident. I am viewing my shots at 24" on a 1920x1200 monitor, and judging them. My wife wanted a 8.5x11 print of a tiger lilly I shot last summer, and on my PC I thought, ehh, its not real sharp but W/E and had a print of it made. at 8.5x11 in our hallway it looks super-sharp, and gets alot of comments. Maybe a 2' print in a restaurant on a wall, 1' from someones face it may look soft. SOOO many amazing shots have come from 12 MP 5d classics, and alot even cropped. Just a little point on pixel peeping I guess, Rant over haha


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