# Torn between macbook pro retina or lenovo w540 for editing pics



## KKCFamilyman (Aug 9, 2014)

I have been using macbook retina's for awhile strictly running windows since the screen covers the rgb gamut and is very accurate. I just bought a thinkpad w540 with the 3k display. It covers 97% so close enough but the pics just do not have that pop the had with the retina since the thinkpad has an antiglare coating. The pictures look flat and the mac makes the appear to have more saturatiin. Does anyone here edit with a matte coated screen thqt has worked with a macbook that could tell me your experience? I am afraid the macbook is the better screen but I never run osx.


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## sagittariansrock (Aug 9, 2014)

Images are more accurate on my calibrated Dell 24" Ultrasharp compared to both my glossy Macbook Pro non-retina or the Macbook Pro retina I have used. I am talking about fluorescent microscopy images as well as usual photos. They look better on the Macbooks, but are not necessarily accurate. 
I'd use an external monitor that is designed for the task, not a laptop monitor.
BTW, I used to run Windows on my MBP for a while before switching to OS X. IMO, it is like trying to run with my hands tied behind my back using Windows on bootcamp; the computer runs hotter, works slower, doesn't switch between chip and card but always runs on the card. I wouldn't use a Mac to run windows except for rare occasions.


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## KKCFamilyman (Aug 9, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> Images are more accurate on my calibrated Dell 24" Ultrasharp compared to both my glossy Macbook Pro non-retina or the Macbook Pro retina I have used. I am talking about fluorescent microscopy images as well as usual photos. They look better on the Macbooks, but are not necessarily accurate.
> I'd use an external monitor that is designed for the task, not a laptop monitor.
> BTW, I used to run Windows on my MBP for a while before switching to OS X. IMO, it is like trying to run with my hands tied behind my back using Windows on bootcamp; the computer runs hotter, works slower, doesn't switch between chip and card but always runs on the card. I wouldn't use a Mac to run windows except for rare occasions.



Thanks its just very few windows laptops offer the full rgb screen. I do plan on getting a 27" ultra sharp qhd soon here but often need to edit in a different area of the house and need a more portable solution. Both run warm to me as I have both here right now.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 9, 2014)

I think you are asking for something that isn't really attainable and you have used some of the best options available and learned this for yourself. I'll just confirm what you already know but don't want to admit. Laptop displays, even the best ones, are compromises compared to a high quality monitor designed for graphics or photography use. I use Lenovo Thinkpads all the time and I have a W520. The thinkpad IPS displays even allow some limited calibration. But as good as they are, they'll never be as good as my DELL U2410 Ultrasharp IPS screen. (And there are many other screens that are as good or better.)

IMHO, Apple Retina screens are designed to impress people with gloss, high saturation and high contrast. (This makes them 'pop'.) These aspects make them less accurate for true rendition and undesirable for use in serious editing. I much prefer an IPS matte screen that is accurate over a glossy screen with glare that isn't.

If I were you, I would keep the thinkpad with the IPS screen and invest in a good external IPS monitor. The DELL U2410 can be obtained for a steal for around $200!! Connect it with a Displayport cable and you're all set. Heck, the thinkpad could be mounted on a dock and you wouldn't have to connect a single cable.


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## wtlloyd (Aug 9, 2014)

Matte, non-glare screens for me. And a large, external monitor.
It might be that personal tolerance is affected by what you are used to.
As I've aged, my vision is less able to deal with glare.

I've been very satisfied, by the way, with my W520 and W530. I use the NEC PA271.


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## KKCFamilyman (Aug 9, 2014)

See the matte makes the shadows and dark areas harder to see without looking really close. I feel the mbpr is easier to see. Also when looking the mbpr screen is pure white and the w540 is a slight bit yellow. This is post calibration.


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## ray5 (Aug 9, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> I think you are asking for something that isn't really attainable and you have used some of the best options available and learned this for yourself. I'll just confirm what you already know but don't want to admit. Laptop displays, even the best ones, are compromises compared to a high quality monitor designed for graphics or photography use. I use Lenovo Thinkpads all the time and I have a W520. The thinkpad IPS displays even allow some limited calibration. But as good as they are, they'll never be as good as my DELL U2410 Ultrasharp IPS screen. (And there are many other screens that are as good or better.)
> 
> IMHO, Apple Retina screens are designed to impress people with gloss, high saturation and high contrast. (This makes them 'pop'.) These aspects make them less accurate for true rendition and undesirable for use in serious editing. I much prefer an IPS matte screen that is accurate over a glossy screen with glare that isn't.
> 
> If I were you, I would keep the thinkpad with the IPS screen and invest in a good external IPS monitor. The DELL U2410 can be obtained for a steal for around $200!! Connect it with a Displayport cable and you're all set. Heck, the thinkpad could be mounted on a dock and you wouldn't have to connect a single cable.


You are correct. I fell for the matte screen coolaid few years ago for my MBP. I am also in the same boat as the OP. Am thinking of a Mac mini and an external display. I haven't used a PC at home for the last 10 years.


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## scottkinfw (Aug 9, 2014)

Another take on what has already been said. 

I use Macs (Pro's, iMacs). I have tried to edit on both. One of the problems is that the Apple screens tend to be way too bright. Looks great but if you try to print from that image, it will be way off. Try to calibrate the screen, with available Spyders or X-rite and they come somewhat close, but not exact. Of course, the image will look different on different screens too.

Obviously, I prefer Macs. If you feel that you want this Mac, and that it will be powerful enough (I am sure it will), and it will meet other needs to be useful for more than just photos, get it, you will love it. It will certainly power a monitor that will allow you to get accurate calibration.

I love the glossy screen by the way, so that has never been an issue for me.

Best.

sek


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 9, 2014)

I keep looking at laptop screens for one that I like, the MacBook pro retina does nave a good looking screen, but I did not want to spend the $$$ to Try it. Some of the new laptops are starting to have better screens, but non impressed me.


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## KKCFamilyman (Aug 9, 2014)

For me my favorite is the hp zbook 15 with the dreamcolor display but its $2800 without a ssd drive which woukd drive the cost another $3-500 for a 512gb. The reason i have the w540 is that i get 35% discount off distribution prices. So if I dont keep it I will sell it for the discount.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 9, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> See the matte makes the shadows and dark areas harder to see without looking really close. I feel the mbpr is easier to see. Also when looking the mbpr screen is pure white and the w540 is a slight bit yellow. This is post calibration.



I've read about this on many different displays. Not just laptops, etc. It is usually (eventually) corrected with a firmware update.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 9, 2014)

The Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro has a great IPS screen (bright, glossy, outrageous resolution) and the new Surface Pro 3 is also spectacular IPS (also bright, glossy, high resolution).


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## KKCFamilyman (Aug 9, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> The Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro has a great IPS screen (bright, glossy, outrageous resolution) and the new Surface Pro 3 is also spectacular IPS (also bright, glossy, high resolution).



Appreciate the suggestion but the yoga pro 2 has inaccurate yellow issues and the surface is great but I woukd struggle with LR on a 12" screen. I wanted a true 15" workstation class machine. Just curious if anyone has been down my road.


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## sagittariansrock (Aug 9, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > The Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro has a great IPS screen (bright, glossy, outrageous resolution) and the new Surface Pro 3 is also spectacular IPS (also bright, glossy, high resolution).
> ...



Have you considered the Wacom Cintiq Companion?


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## jrista (Aug 9, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I have been using macbook retina's for awhile strictly running windows since the screen covers the rgb gamut and is very accurate. I just bought a thinkpad w540 with the 3k display. It covers 97% so close enough but the pics just do not have that pop the had with the retina since the thinkpad has an antiglare coating. The pictures look flat and the mac makes the appear to have more saturatiin. Does anyone here edit with a matte coated screen thqt has worked with a macbook that could tell me your experience? I am afraid the macbook is the better screen but I never run osx.



You should look into the Dell XPS 15. I just purchased the XPS 15 with 3200x1800 screen, 500GB SSD, and 16GB ram. The screen is amazing. It had a slight greenish tint at first, but after calibration, it's wonderful. It has a reflective screen, which honestly I don't like that much...it glares all over the place, which is actually worse than having an antireflective screen.

I really wish that manufacturers would start using some kind of multicoating on glossy screens. That way we could have the best of both world...very low glare, but still have that crisp, crystal clear detail. 

Anyway, the Dell XPS 15 is a phenomenal laptop. It's extremely fast, has enough memory to do just about everything, and the screen is very, very nice.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 9, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > The Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro has a great IPS screen (bright, glossy, outrageous resolution) and the new Surface Pro 3 is also spectacular IPS (also bright, glossy, high resolution).
> ...



I understand. Although for the record, the Yoga 2 Pro is actually 13". And the yellow tint issue was more of an initial problem with the first round of units last year. Plus, a firmware update addressed it eventually as well.

Still, I can appreciate the need for the larger screen and I agree.

Rusty


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## wsgroves (Aug 9, 2014)

I am returning my yoga 2 pro i7 for a i7 surface 3 pro. The lenovo is nice but the screen is too small for that resolution. Try to run a non scaling app and forget about it, doubt you could even click the menu's with a pen.
The screen on it is nice for me to look at, but reviews say its not so great of a screen for real work.
The surface pro 3 is way more expensive and probably a lot over expensive but its working great for me and I can use apps that dont scale well and still see them. I would get it over a mackbook air but even if I had a mackbook air I would run windows on it as i hate osX (I have a few macs but they run windows =) sacrilegious I know.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 9, 2014)

wsgroves said:


> I am returning my yoga 2 pro i7 for a i7 surface 3 pro. The lenovo is nice but the screen is too small for that resolution. Try to run a non scaling app and forget about it, doubt you could even click the menu's with a pen.
> The screen on it is nice for me to look at, but reviews say its not so great of a screen for real work.
> The surface pro 3 is way more expensive and probably a lot over expensive but its working great for me and I can use apps that dont scale well and still see them. I would get it over a mackbook air but even if I had a mackbook air I would run windows on it as i hate osX (I have a few macs but they run windows =) sacrilegious I know.



I agree. I've set up several Yoga 2 Pros for clients but I decided to pass on it for the same reasons that you state. A buddy got a Surface 3 Pro last week and I'm going to see how he likes it, etc. Then I might get one later. It looks promising. The keyboard is better than I expected as well.


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## 9VIII (Aug 9, 2014)

If I were shopping for a laptop right now I would get one of these: http: //www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2459777,00.asp

It's definitely not the most mobile, but my laptop sits in the same spot 99% of the time anyway. If you could pack a desktop into a backpack I wouldn't even want a laptop.

Hmm... I probably could build a decently mobile desktop, but a 4K monitor is still worth almost as much as the entire laptop at the moment.
Right now my plan is to get a 4K laptop next year sometime (when you'll have more than one model to pick from).


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## jonathan7007 (Aug 15, 2014)

The discussion got a little away from the w540 comparison requested.

I use and really appreciate a w520 bought in late 2011 IIRC and I have upgraded components all along as my needs increased. I was tethering with this on a shoot today. I look into the Lenovo forums occasionally to stay up with what the new "W" (workstation) models offer. Anyone considering a w540 needs to read a lot of angry, disappointed forum messages. Some do refute the large numbers of complaints, but some people who evaluate ThinkPad laptops as their job suggest that people buy a w520 instead!

I like my "FD" 1920 x whatever (16:9) screen, although I was sorry to see the old 4:3 screens disappear. Have not tried to calibrate it but keep meaning to get around to it. (I own a Color Munki Photo.)

I am writing just to ask KCC and anyone else reading this to read the "w" machine Lenovo user forum carefully. Sorry not to be able to put the link in this post. I am responding on a tablet.


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## KKCFamilyman (Aug 16, 2014)

jonathan7007 said:


> The discussion got a little away from the w540 comparison requested.
> 
> I use and really appreciate a w520 bought in late 2011 IIRC and I have upgraded components all along as my needs increased. I was tethering with this on a shoot today. I look into the Lenovo forums occasionally to stay up with what the new "W" (workstation) models offer. Anyone considering a w540 needs to read a lot of angry, disappointed forum messages. Some do refute the large numbers of complaints, but some people who evaluate ThinkPad laptops as their job suggest that people buy a w520 instead!
> 
> ...



I have used the 520,530 and now 540. They lost a lot of the tough older styling but made it lighter and has a much better screen than any one before it. The problem I had was the color temp was closer to 7000k so my whites looked more yellow and then it made pp difficult. Also the left palm rest did get pretty warm. I am either going to get another macbook pro and run windows again or try the dell precision m3800. I brought the 540 back because of the screen.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 16, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> The Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro has a great IPS screen (bright, glossy, outrageous resolution) and the new Surface Pro 3 is also spectacular IPS (also bright, glossy, high resolution).



Both screens do not measure up to the Acer V5. There are serious color issues, among others.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-Yoga-2-Pro-Convertible.107620.0.html

The SP3 is better, but still not up to Acer V5 black levels and color accuracy.

Be careful of whiz bang proclamations and gadgets when the most important thing is color accuracy, black levels, and viewing angles. A 13 inch monitor is probably too small for photo work, and even then adding beyond 1920x1080 def is meaningless if the foundation of screen IQ is dubious.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Acer-Aspire-V5-573G-54208G50aii-Notebook.99264.0.html

"We really have to emphasize the excellent contrast ratio of 1,301:1 that is enabled by the low black value of the IPS panel. "

"The Acer's coverage of the available color spaces is on a very high level. With more than 90% of the sRGB color space, "


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 16, 2014)

I'd suggest that you not rely on review sites where reviewers all have a bias, and look at actual products. Even then, when you take them out of the store lighting, the screens will be a different color, so that is not reliable either.

Most laptops with i5 or i7 processors have plenty of processing power for editing images, but, if you want to edit high MP images in the future, then the story will be different. Another thing to consider is the hard drive they include. They are often just plain slow, and they fail if subjected to a hard shock. I'd plan on replacing a hard drive with SSD as soon as I could. Its easy to clone the original HD to a SSd, and save it as a backup.

Another thing I do not like is the flat keys that have no feel along the edges. The importance of a good keyboard should not be overlooked.


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## RGF (Aug 16, 2014)

Biggest choice is OS vs Windows 8. OS is a clear winner - i recently switched from PC to Mac and glad I did. There are a few frustrations (I can not hot key as often on the Mac as a PC), but otherwise glad I made the switch.

When looking for PCs (both laptop and desktop) I could not find any that had only USB 3.0 interface. All I saw had mix of USB 2.0 and USB 3.0. USB 2.0 is okay for keyboards and mouse about not data. I need 1 plug for kb/mouse and the rest for data.


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## scottkinfw (Aug 16, 2014)

My preference is the Mac. My advice is to get it loaded to the max to begin with because you can't upgrade it later. I would put the $$$ into memory and the fastest drive (ssd).

sek


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## KKCFamilyman (Aug 17, 2014)

RGF said:


> Biggest choice is OS vs Windows 8. OS is a clear winner - i recently switched from PC to Mac and glad I did. There are a few frustrations (I can not hot key as often on the Mac as a PC), but otherwise glad I made the switch.
> 
> When looking for PCs (both laptop and desktop) I could not find any that had only USB 3.0 interface. All I saw had mix of USB 2.0 and USB 3.0. USB 2.0 is okay for keyboards and mouse about not data. I need 1 plug for kb/mouse and the rest for data.



Right but I made it clear. I am in search of a highly accurate display 13-15" laptop running windows only. Will never use osx. Just was looking for other users on this forum who would value the same specs as me for photography. Also the usb port selection led you to mac???. Thats the main benefit in the variety of windows devices is the extra port availability. The mbpr has only 2 so plug in a kb/m receiver and there is only one left.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 18, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'd suggest that you not rely on review sites where reviewers all have a bias, and look at actual products. Even then, when you take them out of the store lighting, the screens will be a different color, so that is not reliable either.



Those screen tests are very reliable. If you want an actual IPS laptop screen for editing, the choices are slim.




> Another thing I do not like is the flat keys that have no feel along the edges. The importance of a good keyboard should not be overlooked.



IMHO, the keyboard is the least important aspect of a laptop. This is easily solved by plugging in a USB keyboard of your choice.


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## scokar (Aug 18, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> > Another thing I do not like is the flat keys that have no feel along the edges. The importance of a good keyboard should not be overlooked.
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, the keyboard is the least important aspect of a laptop. This is easily solved by plugging in a USB keyboard of your choice.



While having a laptop is choosing which compromises you can live with, carrying a 2nd keyboard defeats the purpose of a laptop. You bought the wrong laptop.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 18, 2014)

scokar said:


> MichaelHodges said:
> 
> 
> > > Another thing I do not like is the flat keys that have no feel along the edges. The importance of a good keyboard should not be overlooked.
> ...



I don't consider any laptop keyboards proper writing tools, so I don't use any of them unless I have to. I do carry a separate heavy-duty keyboard when I travel in case i need to do serious work (as well as a mouse).

Laptop keyboards have always been a compromise, IMHO.


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## filo64 (Aug 18, 2014)

Try notebookcheck.net for reviews. They seem pretty reliable...


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## Arkarch (Aug 19, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> For me my favorite is the hp zbook 15 with the dreamcolor display but its $2800 without a ssd drive which woukd drive the cost another $3-500 for a 512gb. ....



HP provided a nice presentation of their z-books for in-field editing during the CPUG Supermeet at NAB this year. I did some research and yeah, better than the Mac offerings for color precision. I do not need more for in-the-field proofing. In my studio, I use a pair of NEC PA (27" and 24") fully calibrated and fed by a FirePro W5000 for 10-bit/channel workflow. 

Since I am shopping for a new in-the-field unit, features I consider important are memory card transfer speed (USB3 or better), weight, ruggedness, size for carry, and at least something good for viewing. Still, I tend to shy away from Macbooks although I currently have a 13" 2009 Aluminum (which usually runs out of power before I can transfer 32 Gb due to USB 2) And before that a real (before Dell) Alienware m9750 dual-everything that was impractical in the field.


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