# Canon USA Addresses the Gray Market



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 17, 2014)

```
<p><strong>What is Gray Market?</strong></p>
<p><strong>Information on Parallel or “Gray Market” Products</strong></p>
<p>Canon sells and supports Canon-brand consumer and professional products in the U.S. through Canon U.S.A., which distributes these products through its authorized dealers and distributors. Canon U.S.A. is the only authorized importer of these products in the U.S., and provides industry-leading customer service and support for them. Products distributed by Canon U.S.A. are “localized” to meet the needs of customers in the U.S. market and are engineered to comply with local safety regulations and governmental requirements. As such, these products come with different accessories, manuals, and warranties than the versions intended for sale in other global regions such as Asia. Any Canon-brand products which are imported and sold other than by this method are referred to as “parallel,” or “Gray Market,” products (collectively, “Gray Market Products”).</p>
<p><strong>Hazards and Difficulties Associated with “Gray Market” Products</strong></p>
<p>Customers in the U.S. may find that Gray Market Products do not meet their expectations because they were not intended by Canon for sale in the U.S. In some cases, sellers of Gray Market Products may attempt to localize the products themselves by adding, changing or removing certain accessories from the products, which may result in the following:</p>
<p>• including in product packaging illegal or counterfeit accessories, such as batteries, chargers, and ink tanks, which can cause injury and seriously damage your Canon product;

• An incorrect power cord or adapter which was not provided, or quality checked, by Canon;

• Incorrect software or illegal copies of software which may not function;

• Poor photocopies of the original manual;

• A fake Canon U.S. warranty, a warranty provided by a third party, or no warranty at all; and

• A device with a serial number which cannot be registered with Canon in the U.S.</p>
<p><strong>Customers should also be aware that Gray Market Products may not be eligible for:</strong>

• Coverage under a U.S. warranty;

• U.S. promotions, including mail-in and instant rebates; and

• Technical support</p>
<p>If you are in doubt about a seller, or whether the products it sells are intended for the U.S., please <a href="http://usa.canon.com/authorizeddealers" target="_blank">http://usa.canon.com/authorizeddealers</a> for a list of Canon U.S.A.’s Authorized Dealers. New and genuine Canon products intended for sale in the U.S. can only be purchased from Canon Authorized Dealers in the U.S. or from Canon U.S.A. directly.</p>
<p>To learn more about counterfeit products, please visit <a href="http://usa.canon.com/aboutcounterfeits" target="_blank">http://usa.canon.com/aboutcounterfeits</a> to view important information.</p>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/pdf/CUSA_Gray_Market_Statement_12.12.14.pdf" target="_blank">CUSA</a>] via [<a href="http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/canon-issues-gray-market.html" target="_blank">TH</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
<p> </p>
```


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 17, 2014)

Multinational corporations would be well advised to embrace the globalized economy in all aspects. If they want to peddle their wares globally they better respect their customers right to purchase those products at the lowest possible price available. Wherever that may be ... globally. They should be grateful, we buy anything from them. 

So ... up yours, Canon!


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 17, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> Multinational corporations would be well advised to embrace the globalized economy in all aspects. If they want to peddle their wares globally they better respect their customers right to purchase those products at the lowest possible price available. Wherever that may be ... globally. They should be grateful, we buy anything from them.
> 
> So ... up yours, Canon!


You can purchase one anywhere you want. That was not always the case, customs used to seize Canon, Nikon, and Pentax cameras being shipped from outside the US. There were elaborate methods used to get around this.

It will have a warranty too, just return it to where you bought it for service.

Canon is feeling the pinch from the strong dollar.

1. Gray market equipment is forcing them to compete by lowering prices. This is becoming a big issue in the US, but not as bad in Europe.


----------



## dash2k8 (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm very disappointed with the article. It's a blatant insult to our intelligence. The domestic products are no different from gray market in any color, shape or form. The only difference is that Canon charges a fortune to service gray market items while domestic items are free under warranty. I've bought domestic and gray market and have never felt the "advantages" of "localized" products. What a bunch of bs.


----------



## RGF (Dec 17, 2014)

Basically says nothing


"Customers should also be aware that Gray Market Products may not be eligible for"

So what else is new? May not ... Canon should make a stand and stick to it.


----------



## dak723 (Dec 17, 2014)

dash2k8 said:


> I'm very disappointed with the article. It's a blatant insult to our intelligence. The domestic products are no different from gray market in any color, shape or form. The only difference is that Canon charges a fortune to service gray market items while domestic items are free under warranty. I've bought domestic and gray market and have never felt the "advantages" of "localized" products. What a bunch of bs.



If you think they are no different, then you haven't bought a grey market item that was a piece of crap. I have and learned my lesson. Be glad you haven't.


----------



## dak723 (Dec 17, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> So ... up yours, Canon!



Great attitude! Why are here on a Canon site when you clearly dislike the company so much. Personally, i don't have any allegiance to any company having owned Canon, Olympus and Kodak cameras in my life. My Canon cameras have been well made, extremely reliable, and have taken great pictures giving me much enjoyment over the years. 

Your bitterness seems to indicate that you haven't had the same results. So, why are still here? Go Sony or go Nikon. We'll be glad if you do.


----------



## Don Haines (Dec 17, 2014)

What about the view from other countries..... where on the other side of the river a genuine Canon battery from an approved Canon dealer cost 60 percent of what it does on this side of the river... and they are both genuine Canon products sold by genuine Canon dealers and the exact same part number....


----------



## Don Haines (Dec 17, 2014)

dak723 said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > So ... up yours, Canon!
> ...



+1

As I look around me in the room, I see Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Kodak, GoPro, Rolleiflex, Ikeda, and even the dreaded iPhone.... guess that makes me a fanboy on lots of sites.... 

but more to the point, as we become a global economy and more and more gear is legitimately bought in other countries, manufacturers are going to have to realize that setting up artificial boundaries is a step backwards.


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 17, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> Multinational corporations would be well advised to embrace the globalized economy in all aspects. If they want to peddle their wares globally they better respect their customers right to purchase those products at the lowest possible price available. Wherever that may be ... globally. They should be grateful, we buy anything from them.
> 
> So ... up yours, Canon!



Still waiting for that A9 ;D

I doubt the battery life will be improved. The feeling of driving a car with leaked gas tank through a desert is not fun


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 17, 2014)

dilbert said:


> > Customers should also be aware that Gray Market Products may not be eligible for:
> >
> > • Coverage under a U.S. warranty;
> 
> ...


 
It could be like Nikon. They will not service a graymarket product, even if you pay. You must use a 3rd party repair service.

There are some sleazy gray market sellers who have pulled all the things that Canon mentions and more. There are also some very good ones. As long as a buyer is careful, in the USA, you should be OK. Its not the same in all countries. You are not buying a camera from Canon, but from a regional subsidiary, and they all have different policies and rules. Some features that are legal in the USA may not be legal everywhere, so you can get a gray market camera that is missing features, just something else to research and watch out for.


----------



## Khufu (Dec 17, 2014)

I feel so foolish now for having paid £1800 for a 5D3 when it was being sold locally for just £2999.99 without running the risk of receiving an incorrect power cord :-\


----------



## dgatwood (Dec 17, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> Multinational corporations would be well advised to embrace the globalized economy in all aspects. If they want to peddle their wares globally they better respect their customers right to purchase those products at the lowest possible price available. Wherever that may be ... globally. They should be grateful, we buy anything from them.



Not just that. The lack of a global warranty means that if you're somewhere out of the country traveling, or if you move somewhere else, your U.S. warranty may not be valid. IMO, that makes their warranty less useful than it otherwise would be.

I also take issue with them calling them "counterfeit" products. Are they saying that a Canon-manufactured camera sold in Japan or elsewhere is not a genuine Canon camera? That's just silly.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 17, 2014)

dgatwood said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Multinational corporations would be well advised to embrace the globalized economy in all aspects. If they want to peddle their wares globally they better respect their customers right to purchase those products at the lowest possible price available. Wherever that may be ... globally. They should be grateful, we buy anything from them.
> ...


 
Generally, they want a bill of sale from a Authorized Dealer. Canon USA has also been known to help get service in other countries. Its a good idea when traveling to another country to have a copy of that bill of sale with you. It can also help you avoid paying customs duties if applicable. Canon USA will service cameras from other countries as long as they were bought from authorized dealers.


----------



## CarlMillerPhoto (Dec 17, 2014)

dilbert said:


> The US warranty is only valid for a single year. People keep cameras for multiple years and problems generally don't develop in the first year of ownership.
> 
> If Canon wants to encourage more people to "buy Canon USA" then maybe Canon USA should offer a 2 or even 3 year warranty.
> 
> ...



+1. Canon's value proposition is waning and they don't like the fact that people are getting brand new Mark III's for $2,400.


----------



## Khufu (Dec 17, 2014)

dilbert said:


> Khufu said:
> 
> 
> > I feel so foolish now for having paid £1800 for a 5D3 when it was being sold locally for just £2999.99 without running the risk of receiving an incorrect power cord :-\
> ...



*sigh* I guess I'll never know...

I also grabbed a cheeky £620 70D instead of paying around £900... I'm such a cretin. I must be a Nikon employee or something, abusing Canon like this on an international scale.


----------



## David Hull (Dec 17, 2014)

dash2k8 said:


> I'm very disappointed with the article. It's a blatant insult to our intelligence. The domestic products are no different from gray market in any color, shape or form. The only difference is that Canon charges a fortune to service gray market items while domestic items are free under warranty. I've bought domestic and gray market and have never felt the "advantages" of "localized" products. What a bunch of bs.


If you buy GM and it breaks, simply ship it to the service center in the region where you bought it and they will service the warrantee.


----------



## Jakup (Dec 17, 2014)

lol... most all grays have been great for me..   canon sounds like a cookie monster..


----------



## dash2k8 (Dec 17, 2014)

> If you think they are no different, then you haven't bought a grey market item that was a piece of crap. I have and learned my lesson. Be glad you haven't.



Think of it this way: if I bought a U.S. Canon product in Japan, would that make it any more likely to break down? Of course not. I have used plenty of gray market items from bodies to lenses and absolutely the only difference is in the warranty. They function exactly the same, they look the same, they even come in the same boxes.


----------



## janmaxim (Dec 17, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> dgatwood said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



I carry scans of my recites on my smart phone. I have yet to encountered any customs office wanting to see them though.


----------



## epsiloneri (Dec 17, 2014)

dilbert said:


> That power cord must be made of pure gold to be worth £1199


Perhaps in the same class as this one, for $1999.99?


----------



## bricat (Dec 17, 2014)

Canon try this out here in Aussie too. So why does my canon cost more than yours? Same warranty, made in the same factory and packed and shipped the same way. And as for those bad reports please name 20 of each that you know about. You will have equally as many "faults" with official canon purchases. It is price gouging at its worst. The reason canon whinge is they are losing "high profit" sales. No more no less. And canon make a fantastic product but that doesn't mean I can't whinge about their practice either. I love my canon gear and am not about to change. JMHO


----------



## expatinasia (Dec 17, 2014)

Welcome to the global economy.

Most CF cards are made in China, but they cost 4 times as much to buy in Asia as they do in the US.

Last time I bought CF cards, they were made in China, shipped to the U.S., put on promotion at B&H, sent by UPS from the U.S. to Hong Kong and all for cheaper than I could buy them locally!! 

Crazy times we live in.


----------



## epsiloneri (Dec 17, 2014)

And from another perspective, Canon USA products are popular gray market here in Europe. Obvious caveats are a shorter one-year US-only warranty, American-style power cords, and noticeable import duty. Documentation in our native languages is available online from Canon, so that's not a problem. For lenses, focus distance units are given in both feet and meters, so that's no problem either


----------



## RLPhoto (Dec 17, 2014)

The real issue is this. After a year, I got my 5D3 for 2499$ and at the time I could literally stab the sensor with a screwdriver, send it in for a new sensor and when I got it back, it would still be cheaper than B&h photo. It's now going on three years since release and the price I paid then is now becoming the normal price for the 5D3. CPS will fix the camera but just don't expect a warranty repair. 

So no canon, just sell me a product and don't be artificially making boundaries to push up prices. It will end up with my wallet taking the path of least resistance.


----------



## G3VBL (Dec 17, 2014)

This cross-border price gouging has gone on for a long time. It is particularly prevalent in the UK.

For your amusement, I will list the best price I can find in Tokyo for today (in Yen of course, you can do your own conversion) Body only:

70D ¥ 95,107
6D ¥ 150,939
7DMkII ¥ 182,989
5DMkIII ¥ 268,482

Some items are, however, more expensive in Japan than in the rest of the world.


----------



## Maximilian (Dec 17, 2014)

dak723 said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > So ... up yours, Canon!
> ...


dak723, please only speak for yourself and not for others. Because they might have different opinions.

I *have *a different opinion much closer to AvTvM.

We live in a globalized world. That also means today I have to work/live here tomorrow there.
When I buy an original Canon camera say in Germany from an authorized retailer (in Germany) and I havt to move say to the US then I don't want to send it back to Germany, when I want it repaired or have warranty issues. Because an original Canon product is original in all countries of the world. 

But Canon decides to separate the world into different markets and tries to milk them as much as possible.
And if someone is smart enough to buy an original Canon product somewhere else cheaper ( my definition of "parallel" or "gray market") it is up to Canon Global to handle the point if a service is done in a different country. 

Of course different countries have different laws about product warranties and this is the only argument against me.

And of course it is something completely different, if someone is offering a product labeled as original that is not.
That is nothing I call "parallel" or "gray market" but fraud and an issue for the prosecutor.


----------



## Maximilian (Dec 17, 2014)

expatinasia said:


> Welcome to the global economy.
> 
> Most CF cards are made in China, but they cost 4 times as much to buy in Asia as they do in the US.
> 
> ...


+1
The companies try to milk the customers as much as possible. 

And that has nothing to do with local warranties and laws. As I suppose they are better in the US than in some countries where the products are more expensive.


----------



## aardvark (Dec 17, 2014)

There is hardly anything surprising here. 

Canon USA, UK, etc are their own P&L centres. Why should they cross subsidise via way of a warranty an item bought from another country. The interesting point is they leave the door open by saying the warranty might not be honoured?

The other issue, not so relevant to Canon is why its cheaper in many cases. The answer in many cases is that tax hasn't been paid. You can hardly blame the in country retailers who play by the rules for being "more expensive".


----------



## garyknrd (Dec 17, 2014)

I live in Asia several months of the year. The prices here are much different on some things. Canon sets there prices a little strange here.
I bought a 1D IV, 300mm and 500mm lens here. When I go home to America I use a plug adaptor and they work just as good in America as here....


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 17, 2014)

aardvark said:


> Canon USA, UK, etc are their own P&L centres. Why should they cross subsidise via way of a warranty an item bought from another country.



Simple answer: ONE company. ONE world. ONE global economy. Not only for Canon, companies, makers, sellers of products. But also for us, buyers, customers. 8)

We don't tell Canon in what countries to manufacture their products. Canon is in no position to tell us, their customers, where to buy their products - as long as they come from their factories. They should be grateful when we spend our money on their products rather than on those from competitors. It would be in Canon's own best interest to keep us, their customers as happy as they possibly can. That includes the very best aftersales service they can possible pony up and offer to us. For all their products, for all their customers, no matter where we live, work and purchase Canon products. 

Fair is fair.


----------



## rambarra (Dec 17, 2014)

Canikon et all are just a bunch of hypocrites. Gray market imports into EU and elsewhere are propelled by Hong Kong and Singapore Exporters, which, most of the times, are somewhat tied to manufacturers. Canikon gives to official Asian distributors monthly targets, or price promotions based on volumes sold. Official distributors to meet those targets dump quantities of camera and lenses to brokers in HK/SG, which export them to lucrative markets in countries like Europe and USA. Everybody has his cut and inventories are sold.
Canon USA complaint is just simply ridiculous.

> Poor photocopies of the original manual
wtf


----------



## msatter (Dec 17, 2014)

Really disappointed with Canon calling their own products counterfeit.


----------



## alistairm1 (Dec 17, 2014)

G3VBL said:


> This cross-border price gouging has gone on for a long time. It is particularly prevalent in the UK.
> 
> For your amusement, I will list the best price I can find in Tokyo for today (in Yen of course, you can do your own conversion) Body only:
> 
> ...



GBP prices for the same cameras.

70D £ 799 (146,875)
6D £1299 (238,786)
7DMkII £1599 (293,933)
5DMkIII £2299 (422,610)

Pre-tax

70D ¥ 88,032
6D ¥ 139,759
7DMkII ¥ 169,434
5DMkIII ¥ 248,595

70D £ 666 (122,651)
6D  £1083 (199,447)
7DMkII £1333 (245,488)
5DMkIII £1916 (352,854)


----------



## rambarra (Dec 17, 2014)

You have to take UK +20% VAT into account though. Japan sales tax is how much? 5%? 8%?


----------



## burnfield (Dec 17, 2014)

Some really good points and a consensus that one world should mean one basic price (tax differences apart). So how can this moaning actually make a difference, given price of this stuff we are pretty trapped as customers and these guys know it - I don't think enough of us would only purchase through the grey market to force a leveling of the price - not sure that would do it anyway.

I'm from the UK and just bought the new 100-400mm lens through the US Amazon site. They are an authorised dealer, they include all import duties and local taxes and I'm still £260 ($400) better off. So will Canon UK not support my lens?

You know if enough disgruntled customers got together and said they were not buying any of their products for say 6 mths unless this differential pricing issue was addressed I bet that would have an effect. How often have we delayed a purchase for some reason or other. So for most of us putting off a purchase is not too big an issue, potentially trashing a 6 mth revenue stream for a corporate might just make them listen to their customers.

Never thought I was so radical and a brit to boot !


----------



## rambarra (Dec 17, 2014)

Anarchy in the UK ;D


----------



## weixing (Dec 17, 2014)

Hi,
I'm not surprise and don't understand why people here upset about it. Canon had many offices and service centers in many country and all of them are local company that need $$ to operate, so why you expect the local Canon company to service your under warranty Canon product FOC when you live here but buy from another country?? It's simple, if you decided to buy a gray product, you also must accept the risk of not having a local warranty.

Anyway, just be careful when buying a gray product as not all Canon product had the same specification... For example, Canon 6D(WG) had Wifi and GPS, but Canon 6D (N) do not.

By the way, Canon product in USA are a lot cheaper than in my country, but I usually don't buy expensive products with electronics and motor in it without a local warranty.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Joey (Dec 17, 2014)

rambarra said:


> You have to take UK +20% VAT into account though. Japan sales tax is how much? 5%? 8%?



He did take tax into account by quoting pre-tax prices too.

I recently bought the new 24mm f/2.8 EFS pancake lens. Here in the UK it cost me £179 including 20%VAT, or £149 without tax. In Europe I could have bought the same lens for €149 plus VAT; in the USA I could have bought it for $149 + tax (except in those states that don't charge tax). The dollar price of my purchase was $282...

Since I'm forever being told 'you get what you pay for' I have to assume that my lens is nearly twice as good as the lens I could have bought in the USA. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that part of the problem is that Canon USA is not the same company as Canon Japan, or Canon UK. The various local companies are effectively franchises, operating as separate companies. And Canon UK resent having to give warranty repair to customers who didn't buy their equipment from them. This business model works well for Canon Japan - they can set higher retail prices in markets that they think will stand it - and milk markets such as the UK and Europe. And we have to assume it's legal for them to operate that way - but I suggest it's far from ethical. And why can't all the regional sales companies operate a reciprocal scheme - I'll honour your warranty if you honour mine? That way Canon UK would service a few cameras bought in Hong Kong, and Canon Hong Kong would service a few cameras bought in the UK. If they tried this they would soon realise the need to equalise the prices around the world!


----------



## lourenco (Dec 17, 2014)

I am sure the issue is there is a minimum advertise price(MAP) that the authorized dealers in each region must sell the cameras and lenses for if they want to stay as an authorized dealer with Canon. If they try to advertise for a lower price than MAP online without authorization they may be removed as an authorized dealer. 

I am sure Canon sets different MAP pricing and purchase cost to the dealers depending on the region. Given the authorized dealers have to follow the MAP pricing any gray market goods would seek to take sales away from the Canon's authorized dealers following the rules.

This could be one reason why Canon lowers the pricing on a few items given the dealers may had complained about not being able to compete. 

I have 10 years experience in selling and purchasing car parts for a local speed shop. I know the manufacturers we would deal with would remove you as an authorized dealer if you tried to sell online below MAP. The manufactures create a list of MAP violators and tell the distributors not to sell to those MAP violators. Any distributor found to be selling to an MAP violators may have their discounted purchasing price removed. 

a few manufactures would go as far as saying the invoice price for the customer has to be at MAP. That we could not quote a customer a lower price over the phone. 

I understand Canon is trying to stop the gray market goods from taking sales away from their authorized dealers. I am sure the authorized dealers are complaining about loosing sells and having customers asking them to match an unauthorized dealers price. 

I am not sure if I 100% agree with Canon not offering a warranty on the product they made regardless what region it was from. It is still a Canon product. The only reason they are doing that again is to control the pricing to help the dealers that are required to allow the rules. 

I think it is unfair how many things in UK are overpriced. 

I am considering about buying a gray market 1D X since it is $4,664 vs 5999. I am holding off since I think the camera will be replaced and the price will drop more. I am not 100% sure I want to pay that much given my 5D3 has been working fine for me.


----------



## alistairm1 (Dec 17, 2014)

Joey said:


> rambarra said:
> 
> 
> > You have to take UK +20% VAT into account though. Japan sales tax is how much? 5%? 8%?
> ...



TBH I did add the pre-tax prices after rambarra mentioned it.


----------



## Arthur_Nunes (Dec 17, 2014)

*I think EVERYBODY SHOULD BUY GREY MARKET.*

Here in Brazil, 99% of photographers use camera bodies and lenses from grey market. From Paraguay or from some U.S. authorized dealer. I know US authorized dealers arent grey market, but it something goes wrong, there's absolutely no way to get the warranty to work. Mail a DSLR to US means it also will come back via mail, and DSLRs and other electronics coming from US via mail, equals instant 60% taxes on the product.

You probably is wondering why we dont just buy on local stores. 

When I bought a T2i, 5 years ago, I paid 900 dollars on the body in Paraguay. About 1050 dollars was spent to build up my kit with 18-55 lens.

At that time, local stores and online stores was selling the kit for about 2700 dollars here. This is the life a Brazilian Photographer lives. We are pushed to ilegal ways to acquire our most expensive equipment. Huge taxes and greedy profits impedes us from buying our stuff comfortably like the rest of the world.

Why am I saying all this? My point is:grey market isnt that painful. A whole 200 million people country buy from grey market and we have no problem with it. Even from grey market we pay More than a new yorker does on any photography equipment. If something breaks, just fix it. You wont die because of spending some bucks to fix your professional gear. Its very rare, here in Brazil, hear some body or lens problem from Canon or Nikon, so we dont even miss a warranty service because we dont need it most of the time. I used my T2i for 5 years without any problem. I sold my T2i to acquire my 6D and decided to make the cheapest and most dangerous way: Paraguay trip in a bus filled with other almost 40 people with the same intention of buy and save money as much as they could, since Paraguay have much lower prices than Brazil, because of our huge taxes and greedy prices.

I paid about 2300 dollars on the 6D kit with 24-105. Not that fancy kit B&H offers. It had basically whats inside de kit box. No SD card, no mini bag, no anything else US stores can offer. In the 2300 are included the trip and the *GRAFT*. Yes.. since this kind of shopping trip is ilegal, police officers often ask buses to pull over, and since we are in Brazil, graft is involved everywhere. We were stopped twice and let them have about 1000 dollars. We didnt offer it. They Asked. They (police officers) required it to let the bus go, or we would lose everything or pay 60% of taxes in the nearest office post. So the passengers had to sum a thousand dollars to save their products by the end of the trip.

So please, stop complaining of a warranty to ensure a fix that probably wont even be needed. All, and by all I mean ALL, all brazilian professional photographers acquire their most expensive stuff on grey market or on vacation travels in foreign lands they wont spend at least 1000 dollars to come back just to fix a camera where the warranty resides.

As a brazilian, I can say this warranty restrictions are nothing less than a lobbyist maneuver to ensure their profit. We are surrounded by it all the time here. The 2700 dollar T2i Kit country. We are already used to ignore at least the small risks some companies implies to the rest of the world to convince people they can't live without a warranty.


----------



## Maximilian (Dec 17, 2014)

weixing said:


> ...
> Canon had many offices and service centers in many country and all of them are local company that need $$ to operate, so why you expect the local Canon company to service your under warranty Canon product FOC
> ...


But that "local company" business structure was not the decission of the customer but of Canon.
So it's the opinion of those complaining here that Canon has to deal with that and not that the customer has to suffer from this.

An original Canon product is an original everywhere in the world.
And the world no longer is "local", it's "global".



edit: And I work at a global corporation and I know that in-company cross compensation is possible and done.


----------



## wockawocka (Dec 17, 2014)

Canon 1DX in London £4999
Canon 1DX on Amazon Japan £3000

Pentax 645Z in London £7000
Pentax 645Z Amazon Japan £4000

I'm buying grey market. Who's with me?


----------



## weixing (Dec 17, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Hi,
But Canon didn't force customer to buy their products. Every company had their own terms and condition and if you don't agree to them, don't buy their products... the choice is yours. If you want to buy gray product, go ahead, but just don't expect them to honor the warranty... the choice is still yours.

Anyway, ideally, it's "global", but not everyone use the same currency, not everyone speak the same language, not everywhere had the same law, not everywhere had the same culture and you still need a passport when travel to other country, so it's still "local" in the real world. 

By the way, the funniest warranty I every read is from pelican case warranty: "This guarantee does not cover shark bite, bear attack, or children under 5." Children under 5 is as destructive as shark bite and bear attack... ha ha ha ;D

Have a nice day.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Dec 17, 2014)

weixing said:


> By the way, the funniest warranty I every read is from pelican case warranty: "This guarantee does not cover shark bite, bear attack, or children under 5." Children under 5 is as destructive as shark bite and bear attack... ha ha ha ;D
> 
> Have a nice day.



I don't think anyone can make a product that can withstand the hazards of a 5 year old.


----------



## rambarra (Dec 17, 2014)

Every international manufacturer sets different pricing structures for different areas of the world. This is based on common sense and on the maximum amount of money you can squeeze out of each sale. Talking about Europe, for example, until a few months ago, Poland was some kind of price heaven. The country had been labeled by some marketing genius as "developing country" and the assumption was made that consumers there had less money to spend on cameras and lenses (which was somewhat true). Polish distributors started to enjoy prices which were a good 20% lower, when compared to the prices of other "already developed" european countries. The result was, especially for Nikon, that a flood of professional cameras with polish manuals started to invade nearby countries like Germany, Austria, Italy etc. After 2 years or so and probably several thousands of units sold Canikon decided that enough was enough and moved to a unified european pricelist (and to some other marketing crap such as the "selective distribution" more on this later if somebody is interested)

This just to say that A) distribution and consumer prices are decided at a corporate level, B) these prices are completely arbitrary (how much can we milk out of Europe or USA or Australia? in which way we can maximize our profits?), C) every sale opportunity (including gray market operations) is managed at the same corporate level (some gray market manager in Japan is probably reading this, say hello to him) and D) they always win even if some PR manager here and there once in a while sends a press release to CR about the "hazards" of the gray market.


----------



## Maximilian (Dec 17, 2014)

weixing said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > weixing said:
> ...


I don't plan to buy grey market products and until now I didn't do so but I also don't want to have all the shipping hussle and issues when I have to move. And as I stated before

_I know that in-company cross compensation is possible and done._

So it would be a real good and customer friendly act of Canon to treat them as their Customers when they buy at a (locally) authorized dealer and not as someone who's trying th defraud Canon.


> Anyway, ideally, it's "global", but not everyone use the same currency, not everyone speak the same language, not everywhere had the same law, not everywhere had the same culture and you still need a passport when travel to other country, so it's still "local" in the real world.


But the world *DOES* get more and more "global" in business (no matter what law, currency, language and culture involved) and the companies (incl. Canon) should start to overthink their behavior enrooted from the last millenium.


----------



## fox40phil (Dec 17, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



+1!

You're totally right!

This strategy sucks and nations have to prevent this...


----------



## monkey44 (Dec 17, 2014)

QUOTE: "You know if enough disgruntled customers got together and said they were not buying any of their products for say 6 months unless this differential pricing issue was addressed I bet that would have an effect."

And, that statement flew around for awhile when gas prices in USA sky-rocketed a few years ago. Telling everyone to "don't buy gas on Wednesday" or something like that and we'll teach those greedy fuel companies a lesson. Believe this!! If you could organize a plan that actually did it, you'd be hired by some raggedy politician to make him/her president of he USA. That's an impossible task, to coordinate camera buyers to refuse purchasing a product simply to "let's show Canon how mad we are..."

You'd take years and tons of money, and then have an offshoot of a labor union, sorta ...


----------



## lw (Dec 17, 2014)

lourenco said:


> I am sure the issue is there is a minimum advertise price(MAP) that the authorized dealers in each region must sell the cameras and lenses for if they want to stay as an authorized dealer with Canon. If they try to advertise for a lower price than MAP online without authorization they may be removed as an authorized dealer. .



Setting MAP is actually illegal in the UK and EU due to competition law.

Of course manufacturers might do it under the covers - but it would still be illegal.

As it is, I see no evidence that there is a MAP in play in the UK - market forces seem to be at work, and Amazon seem to be the one who routinely establish the lowest price, and are usually the first ones to drop the price from the 'recommended price' that Canon put in their press release at launch once the lens is actually available.

Just check http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Canon to see how widely prices can vary from retailer to retailer.


----------



## lw (Dec 17, 2014)

So what do Canon recommend the EOS M user does, who has invested in the M system through a proper local Canon authorized dealer only to then find that new components of the system are not offered for sale in their geography?


----------



## cosmopotter (Dec 17, 2014)

I have worked for Japanese electronics companies for years and I can tell you that this is a difficult issue for them to deal with because it's not black and white for them (it's grey!). 

In the 90's I used to participate in the grey market by selling camcorders to a company in Montreal who was dumping them into New York. The US arm of the company used to complain, but there was little they could do when the same dealers were selling back into Canada, which Canadian dealers used to complain about. The New York dealers used to pull tricks like removing the accessories from the cameras and selling them separately in order to show a lower selling cost of the camera itself.

Grey market items from Asia are a bit different though because they aren't usually UL approved. If a non-approved charger burns down your house, it may nullify your insurance so that's not something I would mess with personally. If however you DO get a genuine Canon charger and battery (which can be difficult to tell) and it is UL approved, it is difficult for Canon to say they won't service the item. Notice in the press release that it says "MAY not be eligible", not WILL not be eligible. Warranty service by Canon USA would be billed back to the factory, so it doesn't cost them anything to fix it AND the fact is that if they are genuine Canon products, they come from the same factory with the same name on it. Canon USA is also a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon Inc. who in the end, has to support their products.

If you have a genuine Canon product and you make enough noise, they should honor the warranty regardless of where you bought it. 

BUT Beware of non-approved knockoff batteries and chargers. Those will void your warranty and possibly endanger your life. For me, the risk of saving a couple of hundred bucks isn't worth it. If you are talking about lenses and non-electrical accessories, it is less risky. Personally, I'd rather have local support as well as supporting my local dealers. Go negotiate!


----------



## lw (Dec 17, 2014)

cosmopotter said:


> Grey market items from Asia are a bit different though because they aren't usually UL approved. If a non-approved charger burns down your house, it may nullify your insurance so that's not something I would mess with personally. If however you DO get a genuine Canon charger and battery (which can be difficult to tell) and it is UL approved, it is difficult for Canon to say they won't service the item. Notice in the press release that it says "MAY not be eligible", not WILL not be eligible. Warranty service by Canon USA would be billed back to the factory, so it doesn't cost them anything to fix it AND the fact is that if they are genuine Canon products, they come from the same factory with the same name on it. Canon USA is also a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon Inc. who in the end, has to support their products.
> 
> If you have a genuine Canon product and you make enough noise, they should honor the warranty regardless of where you bought it.
> 
> BUT Beware of non-approved knockoff batteries and chargers. Those will void your warranty and possibly endanger your life. For me, the risk of saving a couple of hundred bucks isn't worth it. If you are talking about lenses and non-electrical accessories, it is less risky. Personally, I'd rather have local support as well as supporting my local dealers. Go negotiate!



None of my Canon lenses has so far required a battery or charger. 
So what is the excuse for making them country specific, or not servicing them in different counties - it can only be to deliberately segment the market to optimize profitability.


----------



## cosmopotter (Dec 17, 2014)

lw said:


> cosmopotter said:
> 
> 
> > Grey market items from Asia are a bit different though because they aren't usually UL approved. If a non-approved charger burns down your house, it may nullify your insurance so that's not something I would mess with personally. If however you DO get a genuine Canon charger and battery (which can be difficult to tell) and it is UL approved, it is difficult for Canon to say they won't service the item. Notice in the press release that it says "MAY not be eligible", not WILL not be eligible. Warranty service by Canon USA would be billed back to the factory, so it doesn't cost them anything to fix it AND the fact is that if they are genuine Canon products, they come from the same factory with the same name on it. Canon USA is also a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon Inc. who in the end, has to support their products.
> ...



Precisely. Of the products I import from Japan to Canada, I only have to get approval (CSA in our case) for the items that plug in to the wall. My cameras don't plug in directly and neither do lenses.

As people said earlier, items are priced for individual markets - what the market will bare. This is a relative number. In the UK they often pay the same in pounds as we do in dollars. This seems unfair, but they also get paid in pounds. I know from personal experience that someone doing my job in the UK makes pretty much the same as I do in Pounds. This is in fact more than 1.5x more than I make, but it is relative to the cost of living. Cars cost more, gas costs more, cameras cost more but relative to income it is actually pretty fair. As the world becomes a smaller place, these differences become more complex.


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 17, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> aardvark said:
> 
> 
> > Canon USA, UK, etc are their own P&L centres. Why should they cross subsidise via way of a warranty an item bought from another country.
> ...


I'm assuming you understand the global economy. I'm assuming you understand regulations to sell a product in another countries.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 17, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> aardvark said:
> 
> 
> > Canon USA, UK, etc are their own P&L centres. Why should they cross subsidise via way of a warranty an item bought from another country.
> ...


 
While that it a ideal view, its not a realistic one, not at least until all countries come up with the same regulations, same taxes, same liability laws, etc. Companies have separate P&L centers because they have to deal with the different laws and tax rates.

In fact, its not one world. Here in the USA, its not even one country, each state has its differing laws and differing taxes. Politics plays a huge part. At least, some laws are common, so that makes it possible to sell the same product in most states, but some products can only be sold in certain states.


----------



## RGF (Dec 17, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> aardvark said:
> 
> 
> > Canon USA, UK, etc are their own P&L centres. Why should they cross subsidise via way of a warranty an item bought from another country.
> ...



ONE company. ONE world. ONE global economy

Really??? Even within the US a company can set up different sales offices to sell to different regions plus a national accounts sales office. Cost, P/L, bonuses are based upon local results.

By your logic, would it be okay for Canon to require you ship warranty products back to Japan (or some other global local) for servicing?

A small bit of the price of every item Canon sells goes to warranty support. If you buy a gray market item, Canon USA (or which ever local country) does not get this support. Cost reassignment will work well - for example a Canon USA tech may make $125 / hr (all in after benefits, ...) while similar position in India may get only $50/hr. If Canon USA were to rebill Canon India, at what rate? Canon India set aside only $50 / hr for the repair but Canon USA needs $125.


----------



## AlanF (Dec 17, 2014)

There are fake 800Es circulating (for those for whom the real ones weren't bad enough). A warning has been issued by Nikon.

https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/63056


----------



## weixing (Dec 17, 2014)

Hi,


AlanF said:


> There are fake 800Es circulating (for those for whom the real ones weren't bad enough). A warning has been issued by Nikon.
> 
> https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/63056


 Not sure is it true or not, but I have heard story that some fake Canon 5D3 appear in China which come with an APS-C sesnor... althought I think it's quite unlikely, but looking at this, may be it's true... 

Have a nice day.


----------



## weixing (Dec 17, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > aardvark said:
> ...


Hi,
I still remember a few years back when astronomical products in my country was very expensive (easily double the price of the selling price in USA) and quite a few USA major astronomical manufacturer told their online retailer that they are not allow to sell outside USA when we try to place order. As a result, those USA virtual address shipping service become very popular in our local astronomy community.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 17, 2014)

cosmopotter said:


> Precisely. Of the products I import from Japan to Canada, I only have to get approval (CSA in our case) for the items that plug in to the wall. My cameras don't plug in directly and neither do lenses.


 

Perhaps you have never imported a car from Japan, or a TV from the UK. Its the different standards, laws and taxes at work.


----------



## cosmopotter (Dec 19, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> cosmopotter said:
> 
> 
> > Precisely. Of the products I import from Japan to Canada, I only have to get approval (CSA in our case) for the items that plug in to the wall. My cameras don't plug in directly and neither do lenses.
> ...



Yes. I have. If you read my previous posts you'll see that. I know the standards and difficulties much more intimately than you do. That was my point.


----------



## martti (Dec 22, 2014)

W sih that the bodies and the lenses could come with a scan code that you could use to register your product and to trace it down if it has been stolen. Canon has its registration service but I do not know what they actually do.
Would it not be qite simple just scan the code to know if you have a warranty or not?
If I order from eBay how can I tell if the product is grey or stolen or counterfeit?
Unless, of course I use international sellers with 99.91 per cent satisfaction and the .09 is typically somebody Franch.


----------



## martti (Dec 25, 2014)

I get all my camera stuff from Asia because where I live the local dealer only has a limited stock. He also charges ridiculous prices because people do not know what the legal 'world prices' are. there is no local Canon or any other camera repair work shop. All things Canon will be sent to France and taken care by Diana which is the official canon repair agent. The trip there and back takes 2 months.

I bought a crappy Canon point and shoot from South Korea. It was so crappy I only had it a couple of months and I sold it to a friend of mine. Three weeks afterward, the camera ceased to function totally. Diana repaired it under warranty. When I had dropped my 35mm L lens, Diana's offer was 40% more expensive than authorized dealer's offer in Helsinki, Finland. So clearly, Canon's rules are adapted to the country in question. 

When I had a problem with an Olympus camera, they asked me to send it to the French dealership and they sent me a new one, an improved version also. Which failed 14 months after I had bought it but luckily I had managed to sell in in the meantime.

Some internet dealers have their own guarantee policy that you can extend up to 3 years with an additional fee, of course. Instead of waging war against gray imports, Canon should establish a similar system as long as the market has not been taken over by swifter small companies.


----------

