# The Canon EOS R6 Mark II will be announced on November 2, 2022



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 31, 2022)

> The Canon EOS R6 Mark II is coming even sooner than we expected, as Canon is now teasing an announcement on November 2, 2022.
> We also want to add that we have been told that there are some ‘selling points’ about the Canon EOS R6 Mark II that haven’t been reported yet and make the new camera a ‘beast’. We don’t mind surprises on announcement day, but those sorts of specs will likely leak out over the next day or two.
> Canon EOS R6 Mark II Specifications (Rumored)
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

Stacked sensor?


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## t4haughton (Oct 31, 2022)

I have to admit I'm confused by this. Apart from the extra megapixels, it doesn't sound like a big change.

It also seems strange to be updating the "baby brother" without a similar bump to the R5 - weren't they were originally released together?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 31, 2022)

t4haughton said:


> I have to admit I'm confused by this. Apart from the extra megapixels, it doesn't sound like a big change.
> 
> It also seems strange to be updating the "baby brother" without a similar bump to the R5 - weren't they were originally released together?


They weren't originally going to be announced together, COVID changed the schedule.

The R6 and the R5 are very different segments. There is far more competition and unit sales at the $2500ish pricepoint and staying current is important. The R5 has the R5 C to make up for "issues' with the R5 for videographers. Another R5 series is camera is coming, but it's not an R5 Mark II.


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## t4haughton (Oct 31, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> They weren't originally going to be announced together, COVID changed the schedule.
> 
> The R6 and the R5 are very different segments. There is far more competition and unit sales at the $2500ish pricepoint and staying current is important. The R5 has the R5 C to make up for "issues' with the R5 for videographers. Another R5 series is camera is coming, but it's not an R5 Mark II.


Good point about the R5C. Still feels weird they're on different cycles. Maybe that's because I'm used to Apple updating their more premium products more often than their downmarket offerings (iPhone and Watch SEs for example.)


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## wockawocka (Oct 31, 2022)

I do hope it's a decent upgrade. The current R6 is practically perfect (for my needs at least).

Perhaps it's not increased in price because it won't be a big jump and I'll end up keeping my current kit for another 2 years?


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## HMC11 (Oct 31, 2022)

Still no confirmation whether it is the R3 sensor (or a variant). Hope that is one of the 'selling point' that would make the R6 II a 'beast'.


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## Chaitanya (Oct 31, 2022)

Eager to find out about new speedlight.


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## RayValdez360 (Oct 31, 2022)

Something is probably wrong with the R6 for this fast minor update. I just know on the original R6 the photo to video switching is crappy, i heard it still overheats, and there is no unlimited recording. I would hope those things are ironed out. Maybe it is more profitable to just make an updated version vs just a firmware fix.


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## ZenYogiVegan (Oct 31, 2022)

Where have the CR ratings gone on these rumor announcements? I hope you're not going on some random twitter user with a few hundred followers without any other verification!


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## USMarineCorpsVet (Oct 31, 2022)

Second gen R6 and still no R1? Time is ticking Canon. Falling behind the competition again.


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## Berowne (Oct 31, 2022)

Is the twitter-account of how2fly trustworthy?


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## Maximilian (Oct 31, 2022)

USMarineCorpsVet said:


> Second gen R6 and still no R1? Time is ticking Canon. Falling behind the competition again.


*yawn* Yes, Canon is totally d0o0o0omed! - again, or ...


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## USMarineCorpsVet (Oct 31, 2022)

Maximilian said:


> *yawn* Yes, Canon is totally d0o0o0omed! - again, or ...


Well if you have been paying attention, apparently it's ******* for protecting its intellectual property from third parties


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## Maximilian (Oct 31, 2022)

USMarineCorpsVet said:


> Well if you have been paying attention, apparently it's ******* for protecting its intellectual property from third parties



Canon is still a business company with goal #1 gaining profits.
If you think, that Canon is "_Falling behind the competition again_" I'd say they do a good job still. 
Feel free to put your money on any competition that offers better features or fits your needs more.


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## EricN (Oct 31, 2022)

Any new details on Canon RF 135mm f/1.8L IS USM?


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## speg (Oct 31, 2022)

Oh baby, please let me have a massive sale on the original R6 for Black Friday?


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## entoman (Oct 31, 2022)

The R6 is an extremely good camera, and the only real reason why it "needs" updating is the perceived notion that 20MP isn't good enough, i.e. not as big a number as the sensors is Nikon and Sony competitors. I doubt very much if anyone will notice any difference in real terms between the 20MP sensor of the R6 and the 24MP sensor of the R6 Mkii.

On paper, there don't appear to be any other major changes, apart from the unexpected and unusual addition of a digital teleconverter, this being the first time that such a feature has been included in a pro-level camera. I suspect that it may incorporate some AI software that will improve sharpness and detail rendition over and above what would be normally expected from such a feature.

As for a "R5 Mkii" - the R5 is a superb camera, when it gets updated I'd expect only a few minor enhancements. Sometime in early 2023 we'll probably see the announcement of a hi-res "R5S", and I'd expect the "R5 Mkii" to be announced alongside it.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 31, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> Stacked sensor?


I don't think anyone wants a $4000-$5000+ R6 Mk2.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2022)

USMarineCorpsVet said:


> Second gen R6 and still no R1? Time is ticking Canon. Falling behind the competition again.


Canon has sold more ILCs than any of their competitors every year for the last two decades. Last year, they sold more than twice as many ILCs as #2 Sony, and more than Sony, Nikon, Fuji and Panasonic combined.

Oh, you mean falling behind in making the camera you personally want. No one but you cares. Go buy a camera from one of the competitors you think are so far ahead. Then go troll their rumors forum instead.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 31, 2022)

USMarineCorpsVet said:


> Second gen R6 and still no R1? Time is ticking Canon. Falling behind the competition again.


The R3 is a fantastic camera. I would have no issues using it instead of a Nikon Z9. The major differences between them is if you want more pixels or less pixels... personally I would have preferred the Z9 stuck with the 24 MP range too.


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## jdavidse (Oct 31, 2022)

t4haughton said:


> I have to admit I'm confused by this. Apart from the extra megapixels, it doesn't sound like a big change.
> 
> It also seems strange to be updating the "baby brother" without a similar bump to the R5 - weren't they were originally released together?



The R6 was plagued by lock-ups and the hotshoe falling off. These are two things that are really bad for wedding photographers. My guess is these fixes are the biggest “features” of the R6 II, though they would never be mentioned in a spec sheet


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## GMAX (Oct 31, 2022)

When Canon presents the R5 "S" next, I'm satisfied until the release of the R1


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## schmidtfilme (Oct 31, 2022)

I would like GPS to return. The 6D II had it.


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## koenkooi (Oct 31, 2022)

schmidtfilme said:


> I would like GPS to return. The 6D II had it.


I very much doubt we'll see built-in GPS outside of built-in grip cameras (R3 and the rumoured R1). But it is one of the things that would make me consider upgrading from my R5 to a newer 40-or-more MP model.


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## cary (Oct 31, 2022)

Does this mean the camera is already in the hands of reviewers and we'll be getting simultaneous YouTube reviews dropping on Wednesday? Fuji is also announcing its X-T5 on November 2nd. It's going to be a packed day.


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## Uneternal (Oct 31, 2022)

I think the unusual release cycle (usually 4 years) points to a rushed decision. The R6 honestly has some underwhelming specs against Sony's A7IV, mainly people will instantly spot 13 megapixels less and ask themselves why they should pay the same for an otherwise more or less similar spec'd camera.
I wouldn't be surprised if Canon put the R3 sensor in order to save development and production time. Put it in the same housing, put a firmware update, and there you go: R6 Mark II.
There were rumors of another 30 MP model on the horizon, but probably the development or production of the sensor is simply not ready yet.


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## TonyG (Oct 31, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon has sold more ILCs than any of their competitors every year for the last two decades. Last year, they sold more than twice as many ILCs as #2 Sony, and more than Sony, Nikon, Fuji and Panasonic combined.
> 
> Oh, you mean falling behind in making the camera you personally want. No one but you cares. Go buy a camera from one of the competitors you think are so far ahead. Then go troll their rumors forum instead.


That is not true in regard to mirrorless ILC's
I think the R6ii will be the one to switch a lot of dslr shooters over to the mirrorless market.


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## TonyG (Oct 31, 2022)

GMAX said:


> When Canon presents the R5 "S" next, I'm satisfied until the release of the R1


I think the R5s might be the next camera to be announced.
Canon Rumors Guy hinted: "Another R5 series is camera is coming, but it's not an R5 Mark II."


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## Sporgon (Oct 31, 2022)

TonyG said:


> That is not true in regard to mirrorless ILC's
> I think the R6ii will be the one to switch a lot of dslr shooters over to the mirrorless market.


Yes I think you may be right there. If the R6II means a few R6 s going cheap I might buy one


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## koenkooi (Oct 31, 2022)

TonyG said:


> That is not true in regard to mirrorless ILC's [..]


Do you actually mean _mirrorless ILCs_ or do you mean _*full-frame* mirrorless ILCs_ instead?


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## LSXPhotog (Oct 31, 2022)

RayValdez360 said:


> Something is probably wrong with the R6 for this fast minor update. I just know on the original R6 the photo to video switching is crappy, i heard it still overheats, and there is no unlimited recording. I would hope those things are ironed out. Maybe it is more profitable to just make an updated version vs just a firmware fix.


It’s my only explanation as well. The R6 may have something incorporated into its design that physically prevents it from getting better performance. The lack of custom video functions for me and the wildly different color are what ultimately led me to selling mine. I used mine primarily for real estate photography and gimbal work and it was absolutely fantastic for me. However, if I introduced my R5 or R3 into that mix then I could never get the video to match and even photos could be a challenge to bring into the same “look” on occasion.


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## ShowMeTheEagles (Oct 31, 2022)

t4haughton said:


> I have to admit I'm confused by this. Apart from the extra megapixels, it doesn't sound like a big change.
> 
> It also seems strange to be updating the "baby brother" without a similar bump to the R5 - weren't they were originally released together?



It doesn't seem that "strange" to me. The R5 is still a solid camera in both the R lineup and against it's competition. Despite some FW bungling of late, Canon has continued to update it to keep it relevant. It can easily go another year, year and a half, before getting an update -- which I think it will. I doubt we'll see the R5 II until well after the R1 ships because the R5 II will likely borrow a lot from the R1. As an R5 user and probably not an R1 buyer, I'm happy w/ not seeing an R5 until 2024, assuming this is the case.

The R6, OTOH, became little lost in both the R lineup and the competition as a lower resolution body when the R7 was released. A lot of R6's initial buyers were enthusiasts that wanted more than an R but just didn't want to, or could not plunk down $3700 for the R5. Of course, there were also pros that were perfectly happy with lower resolution because it aided in processing and keeping storage costs reasonable.

But with the R7's intro, enthusiasts had the new choice of a MP $1500 body. Sure, crop sensor, but in many genres that's even desirable or a non-factor. And even for the pros who initially bought into the R6, 20mp these days for a mid-level body is low. (Not to mention that Nikon is rumored to be reading the Z6 III, presumably with AF borrowed from the Z9). So the R6 II will address that issue to rejuvenate it and also spread some distance between the R7 and R6 choices.


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## danfaz (Oct 31, 2022)

t4haughton said:


> Good point about the R5C. Still feels weird they're on different cycles.


Historically the 5 and 6 series don't get released at the same time, with exception of 6D and 5DIII in 2012, but even then they were 8 months apart:





View by period - Canon Camera Museum


View Canon's cameras in chronological order.



global.canon


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## rpiotr01 (Oct 31, 2022)

entoman said:


> The R6 is an extremely good camera, and the only real reason why it "needs" updating is the perceived notion that 20MP isn't good enough, i.e. not as big a number as the sensors is Nikon and Sony competitors. I doubt very much if anyone will notice any difference in real terms between the 20MP sensor of the R6 and the 24MP sensor of the R6 Mkii.


Yes this is me. I admit it without shame. Likely wouldn't notice the difference between the current R6 sensor and 5DIII but it would annoy me knowing it's there. Man is a creature that feels emotion when he purchases things, Canon (and all other businesses worth a darn) knows this well and will probably make a couple thousand bucks off of me for the little MP bump.


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## SnowMiku (Oct 31, 2022)

It will be interesting to see the real specs once it's announced and I'm surprised it's the same price as the original R6 on release date. I bet the common freezing issues will be fixed and most likely the recording limit will be removed in all cameras going forward. It will probably get the focus system of the R10/R7 as well. Hopefully the next gen RF bodies will be as reliable as the DSLR's.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2022)

TonyG said:


> That is not true in regard to mirrorless ILC's


You are incorrect. Canon also leads the MILC market globally. 



koenkooi said:


> Do you actually mean _mirrorless ILCs_ or do you mean _*full-frame* mirrorless ILCs_ instead?


In Japan last year, Sony had 33% MILC market share and Canon had 28%. Japan is not the whole world. Last year's global sales numbers as percent of total ILC sales break down as follows:
~22% Sony​~17% EOS M​~11% EOS R​
Sony only sells MILCs, and Canon outsells them in that category as well as dominating the overall ILC market. I believe Sony does lead in FF MILCs. They also lead the ILC market segment of brands starting with the letter 'S'. At some point, sub-segmenting the market becomes meaningless.


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## peters (Oct 31, 2022)

ShowMeTheEagles said:


> It doesn't seem that "strange" to me. The R5 is still a solid camera in both the R lineup and against it's competition. Despite some FW bungling of late, Canon has continued to update it to keep it relevant. It can easily go another year, year and a half, before getting an update -- which I think it will. I doubt we'll see the R5 II until well after the R1 ships because the R5 II will likely borrow a lot from the R1. As an R5 user and probably not an R1 buyer, I'm happy w/ not seeing an R5 until 2024, assuming this is the case.


I agree =) 
The 4 year cycle worked so far excellent for me. Starting from a 5D II, 5D III, 5D IV, R5. It seams like 4 years is a good time, where the new model truely brings significant new power and features to the table. It makes it quite easy to justify the expenses for my work. I dont think I would need a new R5 after just 2,5 years. The R5 is still excellent (especialy photomode is excellent, video mode could use a bit more DR). 

Also the R5 got a SIGNIFICANT Firmware update lately. The Overheat problem is pretty much completely solved with this!


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## bergstrom (Oct 31, 2022)

EricN said:


> Any new details on Canon RF 135mm f/1.8L IS USM?



Yes, its for rich people only.


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## bergstrom (Oct 31, 2022)

TonyG said:


> That is not true in regard to mirrorless ILC's
> I think the R6ii will be the one to switch a lot of dslr shooters over to the mirrorless market.


or just wait for the R9


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## bergstrom (Oct 31, 2022)

rpiotr01 said:


> Yes this is me. I admit it without shame. Likely wouldn't notice the difference between the current R6 sensor and 5DIII but it would annoy me knowing it's there. Man is a creature that feels emotion when he purchases things, Canon (and all other businesses worth a darn) knows this well and will probably make a couple thousand bucks off of me for the little MP bump.



just wait for the R9


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## roby17269 (Oct 31, 2022)

Well, I guess I'll be able to scratch one of my hitches soon and pre-order the new 135mm... regardless of how @neuroanatomist feels about it  (just kidding of course: @neuroanatomist 's opinion is perfectly legit, just different from mine).

Now on the R6 mkII... I confess I've never really considered the mkI, due to the fact that one of the major reasons why I moved from 1D X -> R5 was higher resolution. So I'm not interested in a 24mp camera (same reason I did not go for the R3, although I find that one to be far more intriguing than the R6).
But I'll give my totally unsolicited and uninformed opinion on the stacked v non-stacked debate: I'd bet on a stacked sensor for 2 reasons... a) manufacturers need to rationalize on fewer sensors to reduce R&D costs and Canon has a well known history of reusing (with a sprinkle of tweaking), and b) if the R6 mkII needs to compete with the Sony A7 IV, then it'd need some headlining feature like a stacked sensor to offset the 9 gap in mp.
Obviously I may be wrong and Canon may have other ways to bridge that gap, or they may decide that they are not competing with the A7 IV at all. I also don't know what the right answer will be.

I guess we will all know soon enough  (unless all of these R6 mkII rumors turn out to be, well... just rumors  )


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## I_Miss_Minolta (Oct 31, 2022)

All I care about is the EL-5. Talk about long awaited...if it's a replacement for the 430EX III-RT. And Canon, please get your naming down: EL-1, 5, 100? Will there be an EL-2 through 4? I am happy that the EL series speedlite's firmware can be upgraded via the camera.


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## entoman (Oct 31, 2022)

rpiotr01 said:


> Yes this is me. I admit it without shame. Likely wouldn't notice the difference between the current R6 sensor and 5DIII but it would annoy me knowing it's there. Man is a creature that feels emotion when he purchases things, Canon (and all other businesses worth a darn) knows this well and will probably make a couple thousand bucks off of me for the little MP bump.


My advice, FWIW, is that if you're happy to let Canon relieve you of $2000, it would be much better to spend it on a lens, than on a minor body upgrade. A lens will make a difference, and careful choice of focal length will allow you to explore new subjects in new ways. A new body won't.


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## Avenger 2.0 (Oct 31, 2022)

jdavidse said:


> The R6 was plagued by lock-ups and the hotshoe falling off. These are two things that are really bad for wedding photographers. My guess is these fixes are the biggest “features” of the R6 II, though they would never be mentioned in a spec sheet


Didn't know that. A lot of people indeed use the R6 as a wedding camera. Also don't forget the video overheating that was, unlike the R5, never fixed. Impossible to use it to do 4k video and photography on events or weddings


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## entoman (Oct 31, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> Yes, its for rich people only.


Depends on how you define rich. For most people it's probably more a matter of how they prioritise the spending of their disposable income. Some will spend it on entertainment, some on home improvements, some on holidays, some will choose cameras or lenses, some will just try to strike a balance and improve all aspects of their life by a small amount. Personally I'm happy to live in a tiny house and drive a 15 year old car, and spend my disposable on travel and photography. Lifestyle choices.


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## kafala (Oct 31, 2022)

Things I want.
1. Switch/Knob to quickly change from photo/video like the Nikon Z6
2. 4K 60 no crop.
3. No overheating
4. Save custom photo/videos like the A7iv
5. Aperture/Shutter priority video which is not in the current R6
6. New hot shoe that you can screw tighter from the outside vs the inside like R6/R5
7. All-I 4.2.2 10 bit in standard video mode without having to use c-log like A7iv.

If they give me those things, I'll sell my A7iv asap. I can't stand sony's ibis for handheld video and their color science for skin tones.


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## entoman (Oct 31, 2022)

jdavidse said:


> The R6 was plagued by lock-ups and the hotshoe falling off. These are two things that are really bad for wedding photographers. My guess is these fixes are the biggest “features” of the R6 II, though they would never be mentioned in a spec sheet


I'd dare to suggest that a new camera is more likely to suffer from lockups than an established model. Lockups are almost certainly the result of software bugs, and if a manufacturer can't fix those bugs after 2-3 years in an existing model, it's unlikely they'll be fixed in a new model. Furthermore, any "features" aded to a new model, are potential sources of more bugs.


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## rpiotr01 (Oct 31, 2022)

entoman said:


> My advice, FWIW, is that if you're happy to let Canon relieve you of $2000, it would be much better to spend it on a lens, than on a minor body upgrade. A lens will make a difference, and careful choice of focal length will allow you to explore new subjects in new ways. A new body won't.


I'm happy with my lenses, and I don't consider a 5DIII to R6II to be a minor upgrade, right? Or maybe it isn't? It's 10 years difference in technology, seems like a big deal to me. I like my Zeiss lenses but they're MF, and I think the focus peaking alone will be really helpful.


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## ordinaryfilmmaker (Oct 31, 2022)

Berowne said:


> Is the twitter-account of how2fly trustworthy?


Not so much, kinda 50/50, but the image comes from Canon China so unless they were hacked, its happening. Canon China also teased of the RF 800 F5.6 and the Rf1200 and it proved to be correct.


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## amorse (Oct 31, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> They weren't originally going to be announced together, COVID changed the schedule.
> 
> The R6 and the R5 are very different segments. There is far more competition and unit sales at the $2500ish pricepoint and staying current is important. The R5 has the R5 C to make up for "issues' with the R5 for videographers. *Another R5 series is camera is coming, but it's not an R5 Mark II.*


Go on...


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## Avenger 2.0 (Oct 31, 2022)

Maximilian said:


> *yawn* Yes, Canon is totally d0o0o0omed! - again, or ...


Just wait until it's clear it won't have a stacked sensor and come back reading the comments here


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## Blue Zurich (Oct 31, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> just wait for the R9


R6 and 5D3 differences? H U G E...... noise for starters is light years better in R6. No comparison.


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## bergstrom (Oct 31, 2022)

kafala said:


> Things I want.
> 1. Switch/Knob to quickly change from photo/video like the Nikon Z6
> 2. 4K 60 no crop.
> 3. No overheating
> ...



I think The Rolling Stones summed up our desires for certain specs


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## JohnC (Oct 31, 2022)

rpiotr01 said:


> I'm happy with my lenses, and I don't consider a 5DIII to R6II to be a minor upgrade, right? Or maybe it isn't? It's 10 years difference in technology, seems like a big deal to me. I like my Zeiss lenses but they're MF, and I think the focus peaking alone will be really helpful.


I shoot with a lot of Zeiss, and using them on a mirrorless (R5) sort of made me fall in love with them all over again, particularly for using them while walking around.

The focus guide is quite nice as well.


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## criscokkat (Oct 31, 2022)

If it's not the R3 sensor in the R6II, I'm going to guess that they switched chip manufacturing lines and needed to make modifications for those lines, or that they redesigned the sensor to make it cheaper with newer manufacturing techniques, by using economies of scale with a future full frame consumer oriented camera.

24 megs is a good number for a cheaper RP consumer full frame replacement too. They could be improving the output of the viewfinder to something closer to the r5 as well. Having a better viewfinder, dual cards and more controls could help differentiate it from a future RP or RP release that used the same sensor, and thus had nearly the same shooting speed, as the more expensive R6II.


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## nunataks (Oct 31, 2022)

The pricing on the R6 is going to get really funky now...are they going to lower the MSRP down to $2000? The used prices are still around $1900-$2100.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2022)

nunataks said:


> The pricing on the R6 is going to get really funky now...are they going to lower the MSRP down to $2000? The used prices are still around $1900-$2100.


If they do, used prices will fall accordingly, as usual.


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## Jupiter_GP (Oct 31, 2022)

kafala said:


> Things I want.
> 1. Switch/Knob to quickly change from photo/video like the Nikon Z6
> 2. 4K 60 no crop.
> 3. No overheating
> ...


8. recording on the camera with an external HDMI monitor connected.
This switching from VIDEO to PHOTO is a drama. Video and photo Manual should be next to each other.
In Sony A7III no problem. With the transmission and the connected converter, Sony records without any problems. Canon only on the outside. Not on camera. Totally pointless. Not everyone needs 10 bits of output. It should be possible to switch 10 bits and 8 bits.


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## woodman411 (Oct 31, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> If they do, used prices will fall accordingly, as usual.



Either way, if you’re in the US and are interested in either the R6, R62, or any electronics for that matter, why not take a vacation to Japan, purchase the camera there, and enjoy a 35% discount through the exchange rate? Yen hitting decades-long lows against the dollar.


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## rpiotr01 (Oct 31, 2022)

JohnC said:


> I shoot with a lot of Zeiss, and using them on a mirrorless (R5) sort of made me fall in love with them all over again, particularly for using them while walking around.
> 
> The focus guide is quite nice as well.


Thanks, yeah that's kinda what I'm hoping. Not that I don't like them well enough now, but the EVF seems like a thing that really increases utility for MF lenses. Of course the improved AF makes me want to look back into some AF lenses too!


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## esglord (Oct 31, 2022)

rpiotr01 said:


> Yes this is me. I admit it without shame. Likely wouldn't notice the difference between the current R6 sensor and 5DIII but it would annoy me knowing it's there. Man is a creature that feels emotion when he purchases things, Canon (and all other businesses worth a darn) knows this well and will probably make a couple thousand bucks off of me for the little MP bump.


Me too. 20MP is plenty 95%+ of the time, and I may still buy mki depending on discount, but for those occasions where making a heavier crop yields a more attractive photo than originally framed 20% more MP is meaningful. Digital teleconverter (if it's better than a gimmick) is also potentially interesting for someone like me without the longer lenses.


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## jam05 (Oct 31, 2022)

"RAW burst" is a key specification. How much buffer lag will depend on a combination of sensor readout + write speed, with write speed being the normal bottleneck. Firmware alone will not make this camera a "Beast" with 2022 nearing an end.


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## jam05 (Oct 31, 2022)

t4haughton said:


> I have to admit I'm confused by this. Apart from the extra megapixels, it doesn't sound like a big change.
> 
> It also seems strange to be updating the "baby brother" without a similar bump to the R5 - weren't they were originally released together?


A good marketing strategy to do a release in an unconventional matter. The year is ending, however the Japanese business quarter ends in March. Therefore that leaves 4 months for followup.


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## jam05 (Oct 31, 2022)

There should be a major hardware selling point to get consumers off the sidelines for a major year ending purchase of a high end still camera. $2400 is still a high end device. Merely updating firmware with some fancy coding and algorithms won't classify this updated version as a "Beast". Spending one's year ending moola on a device and discover the awaited stack sensor roll out in following months. Canon made this announcement themselves.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2022)

jam05 said:


> A good marketing strategy to do a release in an unconventional matter. The year is ending, however the Japanese business quarter ends in March. Therefore that leaves 4 months for followup.


Lol. You make pronouncements about corporate aspects of camera production like the costs of producing stacked sensors, pretending you know what you're talking about. Yet you don't even know the basic fact that Canon's fiscal year ends 31-Dec.


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## esglord (Oct 31, 2022)

entoman said:


> My advice, FWIW, is that if you're happy to let Canon relieve you of $2000, it would be much better to spend it on a lens, than on a minor body upgrade. A lens will make a difference, and careful choice of focal length will allow you to explore new subjects in new ways. A new body won't.


I agree that one shouldn't buy a new body if resolution and image quality are the deciding factors, but I will say that the eye autofocus for R6 and the other newer bodies is a game changer to me that puts an upgrade to R6 at #1 on my list before glass. While pretty good, I rarely use RP's eye autofocus, because it can't track a moving subject well enough. R6 will increase my keepers on moving subjects. I did originally opt for RP over R for the purpose of spending more on lenses at the time which was a good decision for me and gives credence to your advice.


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## jam05 (Oct 31, 2022)

Canon's 24.1MP full frame stacked BSI CMOS sensor is gathering dust. Therefore saving it for a "Pie in the sky" camera 2 years down the road isn't a very wise move. In a few months it will already be a year following it's release in a device, and most likely two years following it's design and manufacture date, teetering on being technically a 2-3 year old sensor. Canon would be wise rolling it out and flooding the market.


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## jam05 (Oct 31, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lol. You make pronouncements about corporate aspects of camera production like the costs of producing stacked sensors, pretending you know what you're talking about. Yet you don't even know the basic fact that Canon's fiscal year ends 31-Dec.


Actually the production of a stacked sensor is far cheaper than the manufacturing and assembling of plain BSI sensors along with their supporting active electronic components (not needed with the SOC). Yes, I'm quite knowledgeable with over a decade in manufacturing and R&D processes and over 42 years of experiance in the industry. Stacked sensors because of their ability to be manufactured in separate layers in different facilities and or by different manufacturers even and with separate runs, allow for manufacturing economization of resources. SOCs and stacked devices are THE choice and the defacto standard. Only niche camera and outdated platforms still use the dinosauric aged plain BSI image sensors. Primarily milking their inventory. The newer item "cost more" factor doesn't apply here. The manufacturing cost is actually lesser. Reason SOCs are used in 95% of all smartphones and other electronics, and now in their 3rd generation. And No. Canon is a Japaneses company. The Japanese fiscal year begins April 1st and ends March 31st.


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## gbc (Oct 31, 2022)

Was just about to pull the trigger on a refurbed R6 to replace my original R. If this thing is actually coming out at $2499... no brainer to get the R6II for $200 more.


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## Dragon (Oct 31, 2022)

entoman said:


> As for a "R5 Mkii" - the R5 is a superb camera, when it gets updated I'd expect only a few minor enhancements. Sometime in early 2023 we'll probably see the announcement of a hi-res "R5S", and I'd expect the "R5 Mkii" to be announced alongside it.


History says probably not. The 5DS/5DSR was introduced (in basically a 5D III body) a year and a half before the 5D IV. I do think an "R5S" is inevitable in that Canon is not going to let Sony keep the MP crown for too long. I just ordered an R7 to fill that hole in the meantime and an looking forward to using it with the RF 800mm f/11. Given the upmarket trend, I wouldn't be too surprised to see the "R5S" turn into an R4 (yes, I know about the superstition around "4") or even an R3S.


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## neurorx (Oct 31, 2022)

That's what I was thinking. I was hoping to learn more about a R5 Mark II.


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## jam05 (Oct 31, 2022)

If the only thing offered is a few firmware and algorithm coding updates that could be downloaded, the R6II may be woth leaving alone. Save your hard earned money for real hardware upgrade. Not merely firmware coding unless onless only simply has some moola to throw away.


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## r134a (Oct 31, 2022)

Remember folks, Canon is not your friend. They're in the business to make money.

With that in mind, here's my theory:

Canon purposefully did not include a record limit in the most recent firmware update to the R6 in anticipation of MK2. The R6 will not get a record limit update.
The stack sensor is too expensive without adding $1000-2000 price increase, which would impede on R3 sales. 
Expect the Mk2 to cost more than the R6, so $2800-3000
Expect similar performance in photos. If you take pictures there's no reason to upgrade.
The main difference will be a firmware upgrade that allows unlimited recording because they added a small heatsink internally.
The stacked sensor thing was hugely optimistic to begin with. There's no way they would impede on the sales of a camera that literally cost triple, even with reduced performance. 

It's very likely that this is just what the R6 should have been if it didn't use the old 1DX sensor. I.e. the original R6 is "mk0" and this is "mk1".

Let's see in a few days I guess.


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## Dragon (Oct 31, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Actually the production of a stacked sensor is far cheaper than the manufacturing and assembling of plain BSI sensors along with their supporting active electronic components (not needed with the SOC). Yes, I'm quite knowledgeable with over a decade in manufacturing and R&D processes and over 42 years of experiance in the industry. Stacked sensors because of their ability to be manufactured in separate layers in different facilities and or by different manufacturers even and with separate runs, allow for manufacturing economization of resources. SOCs and stacked devices are THE choice and the defacto standard. Only niche camera and outdated platforms still use the dinosauric aged plain BSI image sensors. Primarily milking their inventory. The newer item "cost more" factor doesn't apply here. The manufacturing cost is actually lesser. Reason SOCs are used in 95% of all smartphones and other electronics, and now in their 3rd generation. And No. Canon is a Japaneses company. The Japanese fiscal year begins April 1st and ends March 31st.


Maybe you should look at Canon's website. They announced 3rd quarter earnings on Oct 26 (just time for accounting a September ending quarter). That sounds like a Dec 31 fiscal year to me. Since you got something that easy to check wrong, the rest of your argument is now open for question .


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## reef58 (Oct 31, 2022)

jam05 said:


> If the only thing offered is a few firmware and algorithm coding updates that could be downloaded, the R6II may be woth leaving alone. Save your hard earned money for real hardware upgrade. Not merely firmware coding unless onless only simply has some moola to throw away.


Well if someone wants to buy a camera why not go for the MK2 over the MK1 at the same price? I guess I don't follow your point.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2022)

jam05 said:


> And No. Canon is a Japaneses company. The Japanese fiscal year begins April 1st and ends March 31st.


The Japanese _government_ has a 01-Apr to 30-Mar fiscal year. Japanese companies set their own fiscal year and are taxed based on their own chosen accounting period. Canon's fiscal year runs from 01-Jan to 31-Dec.






Canon Inc SEC Registration


Security and exchange commission filings for Canon Inc. Insider trades, quarterly, and annual reports.




sec.report
















Japan - Corporate - Tax administration


Detailed description of corporate tax administration in Japan



taxsummaries.pwc.com





Here's a dollar:


...go buy yourself a clue.


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## entoman (Oct 31, 2022)

r134a said:


> Remember folks, Canon is not your friend. They're in the business to make money.
> 
> With that in mind, here's my theory:
> 
> ...


Quite possibly Canon realised they had a surplus of 1Dxiii sensors and knew that sales of that camera would decline, so putting a modified version in the original R6 was a sound economic move. It paid off, because the R6, despite its relatively lowly MP count, has proved to be a very popular camera. But they knew all along that they'd eventually need at least 24MP to remain competitive against Sony and Nikon, so a 24MP sensor is inevitable at this point. And of course you are correct that while the 24MP sensor will probably have some advantages over the 20MP sensor, 99% of enthusiasts won't be able to detect any difference.

Price-wise, I expect the R6ii to launch at the same price as the R6, and to see the price of the latter drop quite rapidly. I don't know whether your guesstimate of a $1000-2000 increase for a stacked BSI sensor is accurate, but there are factors other than pure cost, that would influence people deciding between R6ii and R3 - e.g. many people simply don't want the bulk and weight of an integral vertical grip.


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## Skux (Oct 31, 2022)

Wishlist:
- remove 30 minute recording limit
- change the power switch to off/photo/video with separate settings
- take the rear dial from the R7 but keep the top thumb dial on the R6 so you still have 3 dials and customisable d-pad buttons
- let me add items to My Menu from the actual menu pages instead of having to scroll through a single giant list
- let me see the focal length on screen without having to take a photo and checking the shooting info


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## unfocused (Oct 31, 2022)

entoman said:


> Quite possibly Canon realised they had a surplus of 1Dxiii sensors and knew that sales of that camera would decline, so putting a modified version in the original R6 was a sound economic move...


You aren't the first one to float this theory, so try not to take it personally, but the idea that the world's biggest selling camera company is so astoundingly incompetent that they cannot accurately project the volume of sensors they need to manufacture for their flagship camera is just bat poop crazy.


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## r134a (Oct 31, 2022)

entoman said:


> Quite possibly Canon realised they had a surplus of 1Dxiii sensors and knew that sales of that camera would decline, so putting a modified version in the original R6 was a sound economic move. It paid off, because the R6, despite its relatively lowly MP count, has proved to be a very popular camera. But they knew all along that they'd eventually need at least 24MP to remain competitive against Sony and Nikon, so a 24MP sensor is inevitable at this point. And of course you are correct that while the 24MP sensor will probably have some advantages over the 20MP sensor, 99% of enthusiasts won't be able to detect any difference.
> 
> Price-wise, I expect the R6ii to launch at the same price as the R6, and to see the price of the latter drop quite rapidly. I don't know whether your guesstimate of a $1000-2000 increase for a stacked BSI sensor is accurate, but there are factors other than pure cost, that would influence people deciding between R6ii and R3 - e.g. many people simply don't want the bulk and weight of an integral vertical grip.



I agree it makes sense. Truthfully, the 1DX sensor is very good even today and people have made many "cover of nat geo" images with it. It also makes sense that they would continue to use those sensors until they ran out supply and ramped up production on the "true" R6.

I'm kind of basing that on the cost for a sensor repair on an R3, but I don't think there's any way that we can get the actual cost. Unless they intend on marketing the mk2 as a sports and action focused camera with that sensor, it doesn't make sense to have the much more expensive sensor since the target market for that camera is portrait photographers who don't care much about rolling shutter anyway. Without the R3 getting an upgrade either I don't see them stepping on it's sales with an R6 that performs even a little like an R3.

I expect the body to be the same (dial, no second screen), a very similar sensor with a slightly tighter PPI making 24MP (with commensurately slightly less low light performance), and unlimited 4k60 clog3 video for a couple hundred dollar premium.

The biggest indicator to me is the firmware that came out for both the R5 and R6, the R6 was specifically missing the video recording change that the R5 got... Because it was being saved for the mk2.


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## r134a (Oct 31, 2022)

unfocused said:


> You aren't the first one to float this theory, so try not to take it personally, but the idea that the world's biggest selling camera company is so astoundingly incompetent that they cannot accurately project the volume of sensors they need to manufacture for their flagship camera is just bat poop crazy.


It's not that they messed up projections, it's that they planned to use that sensor because it's very good.


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## unfocused (Oct 31, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> I think The Rolling Stones summed up our desires for certain specs


Man! They look so young! Makes me feel even older.


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## Skyscraperfan (Oct 31, 2022)

I do not need any "beast" features, but I would love to see Canon not treating the low megapixel camera as an amateur camera, while the R5 is aimed at professionals. There are good reasons why even professionals might prefer a low megapixel camera with higher dynamic range in return. So this camera should be like a low megapixel R5. That means a top LCD display and at least one CFexpress slot. 

I really hope that the competition from Sony and the upcoming Nikon Z8 will force Canon to cripple the R6 Mark II much less than the R6.

The R7 also has many features that he R6 has not. That really has to be corrected.


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## unfocused (Oct 31, 2022)

r134a said:


> It's not that they messed up projections, it's that they planned to use that sensor because it's very good.


I agree with that. But, that wasn't what the OP said.

His statement: "Quite possibly Canon realised they had a surplus of 1Dxiii sensors..." 

I take issue with the suggestion that Canon simply "realized" they had a "surplus" and presumably then designed a camera to use up that surplus. That's what I call crazy. Canon isn't some corner pub that says, "Gee we ordered too many pepperonis, let's run a special on pepperoni pizza."


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## entoman (Oct 31, 2022)

r134a said:


> It's not that they messed up projections, it's that they planned to use that sensor because it's very good.


The way I see it is that Canon took a gamble that using the "pro" sensor from the 1Dxiii, would offset the predictable negativity about having "only" 20MP. But they also knew that they could only get away with that approach for a limited time, simply because all of the competition were already using 24MP or higher.

There's nothing unusual about companies messing up projections, but the most likely scenario is that Canon over-estimated sales of the 1DXiii when designing its sensor, and at the same time knew that it made economic sense to use the same sensor in the then upcoming R6. Canon have a long history of repurposing their sensors for multiple cameras, and they'll try to get away with doing so for as long as possible.

It'll be interesting to discover whether the R6ii sensor is a "crippled" R3 sensor, or an entirely new design that will find its way in one form or another into multiple enthusiast bodies.


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## melgross (Oct 31, 2022)

My birthday!!!


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## ashmadux (Oct 31, 2022)

the 20mp sensor is the only thing holding me back from the r6. the R doesnt have IBIS, so that is DOA for me. No more bodies without ibis.

As long as image quality hasnt suffered (r6 supposedly has sharper images that the R5, overall better IQ), then i'm in.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2022)

entoman said:


> The way I see it is that Canon took a gamble that using the "pro" sensor from the 1Dxiii, would offset the predictable negativity about having "only" 20MP. But they also knew that they could only get away with that approach for a limited time, simply because all of the competition were already using 24MP or higher.
> 
> There's nothing unusual about companies messing up projections, but the most likely scenario is that Canon over-estimated sales of the 1DXiii when designing its sensor, and at the same time knew that it made economic sense to use the same sensor in the then upcoming R6. Canon have a long history of repurposing their sensors for multiple cameras, and they'll try to get away with doing so for as long as possible.


I asked this before of another poster with the same silly hypothesis. How could the 'surplus sensors' (just laying around and not actually yet used to assemble cameras) from a camera priced $6500 and with correspondingly low unit sales possibly support even an initial production run for a camera priced at $2500 and expected to sell in far higher numbers.


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## r134a (Oct 31, 2022)

unfocused said:


> I agree with that. But, that wasn't what the OP said.
> 
> His statement: "Quite possibly Canon realised they had a surplus of 1Dxiii sensors..."
> 
> I take issue with the suggestion that Canon simply "realized" they had a "surplus" and presumably then designed a camera to use up that surplus. That's what I call crazy. Canon isn't some corner pub that says, "Gee we ordered too many pepperonis, let's run a special on pepperoni pizza."


That's fair. They definitely make projections and most likely stick to them in a way that optimizes sales and minimizes cost. The R6 was likely in design several years before we even heard about it, at a time when mirrorless was not accepted as the standard like it is today. 



entoman said:


> The way I see it is that Canon took a gamble that using the "pro" sensor from the 1Dxiii, would offset the predictable negativity about having "only" 20MP. But they also knew that they could only get away with that approach for a limited time, simply because all of the competition were already using 24MP or higher.
> 
> There's nothing unusual about companies messing up projections, but the most likely scenario is that Canon over-estimated sales of the 1DXiii when designing its sensor, and at the same time knew that it made economic sense to use the same sensor in the then upcoming R6. Canon have a long history of repurposing their sensors for multiple cameras, and they'll try to get away with doing so for as long as possible.
> 
> It'll be interesting to discover whether the R6ii sensor is a "crippled" R3 sensor, or an entirely new design that will find its way in one form or another into multiple enthusiast bodies.


I think what he was saying is it didn't happen on accident. 

You know, what could they really do to cripple the R3 sensor without having to manufacture it in a significantly different way? That's why I won't buy that they're going to put this expensive high performance sensor in a camera two categories cheaper in the market segment aimed at bloggers and wedding photographers. I've pretty much convinced myself it's going to be a new sensor with slightly increased density but otherwise the same as the current sensor.


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## unfocused (Oct 31, 2022)

r134a said:


> ...You know, what could they really do to cripple the R3 sensor without having to manufacture it in a significantly different way? That's why I won't buy that they're going to put this expensive high performance sensor in a camera two categories cheaper in the market segment aimed at bloggers and wedding photographers. I've pretty much convinced myself it's going to be a new sensor with slightly increased density but otherwise the same as the current sensor.


I don't know whether they will use the same sensor in the R6II or not, but it wouldn't be unusual for Canon to reuse essentially the same sensor from a more expensive model. Going as far back as the 7D, Canon routinely used the sensors in subsequent XXD bodies and even Rebels. Just one example.

I don't see the R3 sensor as a major selling point for the camera. As an R3 owner, I bought the camera for the entire package and actually purchased it *despite* its sensor (I would have preferred at least 30 mp). In actual use, I can find no *practical* advantage to the R3 sensor over the R5 (which I also own), although I can find some small advantage for the R5 sensor due to higher resolution (although that is not that significant either).

In short, I think people make way too much of small differences in sensors and feel that if you buy a camera based on these well-hyped differences, you are unlikely to be able to tell the difference in your pictures.

I will not be surprised if Canon uses the R3 sensor in the R6II. As an R3 owner it won't bother me in the least. If I were advising a potential buyer I would tell them to make their decision on other factors regardless of the sensor that goes into the R6.


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## SHAMwow (Oct 31, 2022)

Uneternal said:


> I think the unusual release cycle (usually 4 years) points to a rushed decision. The R6 honestly has some underwhelming specs against Sony's A7IV, mainly people will instantly spot 13 megapixels less and ask themselves why they should pay the same for an otherwise more or less similar spec'd camera.
> I wouldn't be surprised if Canon put the R3 sensor in order to save development and production time. Put it in the same housing, put a firmware update, and there you go: R6 Mark II.
> There were rumors of another 30 MP model on the horizon, but probably the development or production of the sensor is simply not ready yet.


What else is underwhelming? You listed one spec, that really doesn't account for much difference in actual use.


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## SHAMwow (Oct 31, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> They weren't originally going to be announced together, COVID changed the schedule.
> 
> The R6 and the R5 are very different segments. There is far more competition and unit sales at the $2500ish pricepoint and staying current is important. The R5 has the R5 C to make up for "issues' with the R5 for videographers. Another R5 series is camera is coming, but it's not an R5 Mark II.


Will the 135mm also be announced on the 2nd?


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## binary (Oct 31, 2022)

kafala said:


> Things I want.
> 1. Switch/Knob to quickly change from photo/video like the Nikon Z6
> 2. 4K 60 no crop.
> 3. No overheating
> ...


1.1 crop in R6 isn't that bad. It's barely noticeable. You can get used to it.
I actually like Sony's skin tones, they are very natural but instead I hate green colours. Grass and trees look horrible without any colour correction.


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## 1in8billion (Oct 31, 2022)

A “beast”. Looks like we may be getting that stacked censor after all boys and gals.


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## ashmadux (Oct 31, 2022)

unfocused said:


> I don't know whether they will use the same sensor in the R6II or not, but it wouldn't be unusual for Canon to reuse essentially the same sensor from a more expensive model. Going as far back as the 7D, Canon routinely used the sensors in subsequent XXD bodies and even Rebels. Just one example.
> 
> I don't see the R3 sensor as a major selling point for the camera. As an R3 owner, I bought the camera for the entire package and actually purchased it *despite* its sensor (I would have preferred at least 30 mp). In actual use, I can find no *practical* advantage to the R3 sensor over the R5 (which I also own), although I can find some small advantage for the R5 sensor due to higher resolution (although that is not that significant either).
> 
> ...


Some of these differences aren't exactly "small". Several sites have noticed the better image quality on the R6 over the R5. Even the trusty Brian at TDP has charts showing the difference between r6 20mp sensor and the R 30mp sensor, a holdever from the 5d4 that produces softer results. I only noticed this because i almost purchased a refurb R. (and also thought it had IBIS..it doesnt, no sale).
Softer results are a BIG deal. Some of us buy cameras for the best IQ we can get. Features be damned, whatever sensor it has better have at least as good iq as the camera its replacing. These are nearly 3 thousand dollar bodies. Get that soft image/weak sensor crap out of here...uncceptable.


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## 1in8billion (Oct 31, 2022)

USMarineCorpsVet said:


> Second gen R6 and still no R1? Time is ticking Canon. Falling behind the competition again.


The cope is unreal. Proving my earlier comments daily. 

The Sony is behind. The A7SIII had people moving platforms and everything since then has fell flat. Even the A7RV is just an R5 with worse autofocus and still dog ish IBIS. For the same price, two years later. Talk about falling behind. Where is all the criticism for Sony being super underwhelming without ANY give on price, milking the hell out of the fanboys. 

People jumped on the hype train and now they’ve been running around comment sections justifying their purchase since.


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## rpiotr01 (Oct 31, 2022)

1in8billion said:


> A “beast”. Looks like we may be getting that stacked censor after all boys and gals.


Maybe they’re just gonna make it exceptionally, almost comically large and heavy.


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## 1in8billion (Oct 31, 2022)

rpiotr01 said:


> Maybe they’re just gonna make it exceptionally, almost comically large and heavy.


Haha, yeah. Maybe they’re making it so it’s angry all the time and tries to eat you every time you take a picture.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 31, 2022)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> Didn't know that. A lot of people indeed use the R6 as a wedding camera. Also don't forget the video overheating that was, unlike the R5, never fixed. Impossible to use it to do 4k video and photography on events or weddings


I don't own a R6 but Canon did release a number of video recording length improvements. Can anyone that owns a R6 confirm that there are no real thermal limits anymore - besides the arbitrary 30 minute clip length?

2020 Firmware 1.1.1 released 3 months after launch
Continuous recording:
Original = Record a 41:00 clip before overheating; ~21min after a 60:00 cooldown
FW1.1.1 = Record a 49:20 clip before overheating; ~39min after a 30:00 cooldown
15:00 clip then 5:00 cooldown, followed by a 10:00 clip then 5:00 cooldown, another 10:00 clip etc
Original = 40:40 minutes, FW1.1.1 = 117 minutes
It also includes ambient temperature so using an icepack means even longer record and better recovery times

2021 FW 1.3.1 adds "Light" IPB codecs for lower bit rate shooting

2022 FW 1.6 also includes a menu option for allowing higher temperatures. The bottom plate acts as a heat sink so tripod mounting helps dissipate heat as well.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 31, 2022)

Sometimes Canon releases a feature in a lower end body prior to their flagship. Quad pixel AF would be an interesting new feature for instance.

Canon likes to recycle sensors so I wonder if the current R6 sensor will then go into a RP replacement body (without EVF). That would be well received!!


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## David - Sydney (Oct 31, 2022)

jam05 said:


> "RAW burst" is a key specification. How much buffer lag will depend on a combination of sensor readout + write speed, with write speed being the normal bottleneck. Firmware alone will not make this camera a "Beast" with 2022 nearing an end.


How much buffer do you need? From The Digital Picture that used Prograde 64GB V60 USH-ii SD cards in testing 2 years ago...


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## PhotoGenerous (Oct 31, 2022)

With two models coming out as previously rumored. Is it really going to be R6II-Regular and R6II-Stop Motion Video? Or will it be more like, R6II-Photo and R6II-Video.


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## Scenes (Oct 31, 2022)

RayValdez360 said:


> Something is probably wrong with the R6 for this fast minor update. I just know on the original R6 the photo to video switching is crappy, i heard it still overheats, and there is no unlimited recording. I would hope those things are ironed out. Maybe it is more profitable to just make an updated version vs just a firmware fix.


It never stopped overheating. canon never claimed it did. I read this kind of comment a lot but canon were pretty up front about overheating times and while firmware updates got a fraction better they never changed anything dramatically and never claimed too.


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## Bezbozny (Oct 31, 2022)

If it has r3 sensor and GPS i ll buy it.

I really can't get it... even 100$ cameras have GPS... why does only r3 have it?


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## entoman (Oct 31, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> I asked this before of another poster with the same silly hypothesis. How could the 'surplus sensors' (just laying around and not actually yet used to assemble cameras) from a camera priced $6500 and with correspondingly low unit sales possibly support even an initial production run for a camera priced at $2500 and expected to sell in far higher numbers.


I guess that would depend on how much it actually costs to manufacture the sensor. Some people assume that it's the sensor in the R3 that makes it so expensive, but that's only one component. I'd hazard a guess (and could easily be wrong) that the difference in manufacturing cost between a "standard" 24MP sensor and a BSI stacked sensor is no more than $500, and that the extra you pay for the R3 is *partly* a "premium" for having the latest sensor tech - and of course you are paying for a whole lot more including an integral vertical grip and better build quality. Canon habitually repurpose sensors in new models, and it's quite possible they might repurpose the R3 sensor and put it in the R6ii. Unlikely perhaps, but certainly possible.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Nov 1, 2022)

schmidtfilme said:


> I would like GPS to return. The 6D II had it.


I'd love for Canon to come out with an updated GPS receiver module that's smaller than the GP-E2 and uses the data pins in the multi-function shoe in the R3 and R7 instead of an external connection cord.

On that note, any word if the R6II will have the multi-function shoe? The rumored specs don't say either way.


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## Docofthewild (Nov 1, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> Sometimes Canon releases a feature in a lower end body prior to their flagship. Quad pixel AF would be an interesting new feature for instance.
> 
> Canon likes to recycle sensors so I wonder if the current R6 sensor will then go into a RP replacement body (without EVF). That would be well received!!


I agree. I think this is a smart move by Canon to set themselves up for future bodies. Upgrading the R6 without changing the price allows a much better R replacement while maintaining separation from the R6. Even that rumored R replacement with IBIS could be possible if it was still using the 5Div sensor. Also sets them up to use the 1DXiii/R6 sensor in the RP replacement. I think both of those would have been harder to do with the current R6. 

I would love to see the R3 sensor in the R6ii but am excited to see what they put out either way. If it is a new sensor designed for the R6, it is still very likely to be the third best sensor in their lineup. When is the last time Canon put out an underwhelming sensor, the 6Dii? Turns out this Canon company is pretty good at making cameras if you haven’t heard.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 1, 2022)

entoman said:


> I guess that would depend on how much it actually costs to manufacture the sensor. Some people assume that it's the sensor in the R3 that makes it so expensive, but that's only one component. I'd hazard a guess (and could easily be wrong) that the difference in manufacturing cost between a "standard" 24MP sensor and a BSI stacked sensor is no more than $500, and that the extra you pay for the R3 is *partly* a "premium" for having the latest sensor tech - and of course you are paying for a whole lot more including an integral vertical grip and better build quality. Canon habitually repurpose sensors in new models, and it's quite possible they might repurpose the R3 sensor and put it in the R6ii. Unlikely perhaps, but certainly possible.


I’m not arguing with the suggestion that Canon may use the R3 sensor in the R6II. They may, and if so great for R6II buyers. 

I’m disputing your suggestion that the reason they used the 1D X III sensor in the R6 is that they ‘had a surplus of them’, and the implication that if they use the R3 sensor in the R6II it will be for the same reason.


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## EOS 4 Life (Nov 1, 2022)

Uneternal said:


> I think the unusual release cycle (usually 4 years)


I do not think that has ever really been true


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

Photo Bunny said:


> I don't think anyone wants a $4000-$5000+ R6 Mk2.


It wouldn't add that much. besides. The post clearly stated it is the same price as the original but will have as yet unmentioned features that 'make it a beast'. While it may not be likely it is most definitely possible that canon might just throw an already in production sensor in it rather than developing and retooling to make an entirely new sensor.


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## Jethro (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> It wouldn't add that much. besides. The post clearly stated it is the same price as the original but will have as yet unmentioned features that 'make it a beast'. While it may not be likely it is most definitely possible that canon might just throw an already in production sensor in it rather than developing and retooling to make an entirely new sensor.


I mean, if it does end up with the R3's stacked sensor, we're in bargain of the decade territory, aren't we, even if Canon nerf some (or a lot) of the R3 features? Here's hoping. I think, more likely for the rumoured price, it'll be a simplified version of the R3 sensor. But fascinating to see what drops.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

Jethro said:


> I mean, if it does end up with the R3's stacked sensor, we're in bargain of the decade territory, aren't we, even if Canon nerf some (or a lot) of the R3 features? Here's hoping. I think, more likely for the rumoured price, it'll be a simplified version of the R3 sensor. But fascinating to see what drops.


They made a "bargin of the decade' with the 7d2 back in the day. For all its faults it was a BEAST of a camera at a very good price and mine still takes great images even today. Especially on the really incliment weather days when I am too nervous to break out the R6


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> It wouldn't add that much. besides. The post clearly stated it is the same price as the original but will have as yet unmentioned features that 'make it a beast'. While it may not be likely it is most definitely possible that canon might just throw an already in production sensor in it rather than developing and retooling to make an entirely new sensor.


Notwithstanding the statements by one person who claims stacked FF sensors are cheaper to produce than standard CMOS FF sensors but makes false assumptions because he doesn’t know how to look up Canon’s fiscal calendar, we don’t really know how much including a stacked sensor would add to the cost. 

But even if it doesn’t add much, whatever it adds to production costs subtracts from profits. So it’s unlikely Canon would do that unless they feel there’s a compelling reason. Outside of a few forum dwellers, I doubt most people care whether a sensor is stacked or BSI. The fact that people here make a big deal about BSI when even manufacturers claim it makes little difference at the pixel pitch of current FF sensors is just more evidence that many forum dwellers are out of touch with reality, and don’t represent the broader camera-buying market.


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## Ryanhuntmuzik (Nov 1, 2022)

Haven’t followed camera releases too closely, so forgive my question, but does the announcement = release date/preordering? Or does that come at a later time?


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## Jethro (Nov 1, 2022)

Ryanhuntmuzik said:


> Haven’t followed camera releases too closely, so forgive my question, but does the announcement = release date/preordering? Or does that come at a later time?


It's still only a 'tease' from Canon - so possibly an announcement including a release date.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Notwithstanding the statements by one person who claims stacked FF sensors are cheaper to produce than standard CMOS FF sensors but makes false assumptions because he doesn’t know how to look up Canon’s fiscal calendar, we don’t really know how much including a stacked sensor would add to the cost.
> 
> But even if it doesn’t add much, whatever it adds to production costs subtracts from profits. So it’s unlikely Canon would do that unless they feel there’s a compelling reason. Outside of a few forum dwellers, I doubt most people care whether a sensor is stacked or BSI. The fact that people here make a big deal about BSI when even manufacturers claim it makes little difference at the pixel pitch of current FF sensors is just more evidence that many forum dwellers are out of touch with reality, and don’t represent the broader camera-buying market.


I suppose the key words are 'compelling reason'. Perhaps they are looking at time scales and development rates (which in the technical age just keep speeding up at an exponential rate) and have come to the conclusion that in the next few years ALL FF cameras that rely on ES will have a stacked sensor. If that is the case they may decide there is no point releasing one without. As you said, we don't know how much an already developed and in production stacked sensor will add to the price of an R62 compared to a newly developed and produced non stacked CMOS sensor. Perhaps the difference is not all that big and canon are willing to absorb the cost in order to increase sales. on the other hand. Perhaps they don't. I guess we will find out tomorrow.


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## Jethro (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> I guess we will find out tomorrow.


I'm actually quite excited - for the reported price, this might be my move up from the EOS R. A sensor resembling that from the R3 (with all the caveats) would lessen the perceived pain of moving 'down' from 30 MP, especially if the new sensor had compensating features. As always, I'm one for waiting for proper reviews and comparison tests anyway.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

Jethro said:


> I'm actually quite excited - for the reported price, this might be my move up from the EOS R. A sensor resembling that from the R3 (with all the caveats) would lessen the perceived pain of moving 'down' from 30 MP, especially if the new sensor had compensating features. As always, I'm one for waiting for proper reviews and comparison tests anyway.


I found that moving from a 7d2 to an R6 gave me cleaner images in all but the best light conditions despite the massive drop in resolution. In average conditions I can crop in to match the FOV of the 7d2 and the image is better than the 7d2. The difference in all the other aspects of the sensor and AF more than make up for a lack of pixels most of the time


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 1, 2022)

Jethro said:


> A sensor resembling that from the R3 (with all the caveats) would lessen the perceived pain of moving 'down' from 30 MP, especially if the new sensor had compensating features.


Canon claimed the 24 MP R3 sensor outresolves the 30 MP R sensor, and as an owner of both I found that to be true.


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## Marco Birri (Nov 1, 2022)

Jethro said:


> I mean, if it does end up with the R3's stacked sensor, we're in bargain of the decade territory, aren't we, even if Canon nerf some (or a lot) of the R3 features? Here's hoping. I think, more likely for the rumoured price, it'll be a simplified version of the R3 sensor. But fascinating to see what drops.


More likely than not, if they keep to dual SD cards, you can totally forget 195 fps raw


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## EOS 4 Life (Nov 1, 2022)

1in8billion said:


> A7RV is just an R5 with worse autofocus and still dog ish IBIS


Sony claims to have dramatically improved the IBIS, but I have not seen anyone who actually tested it.


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## Jethro (Nov 1, 2022)

Marco Birri said:


> More likely than not, if they keep to dual SD cards, you can totally forget 195 fps raw


Mate, fungi don't move that fast!


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## BBarn (Nov 1, 2022)

I predict the R6II will use a version of the R3 sensor but will lack the processing power for blackout-free EVF and non-rolling ES performance of the R3.


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## highdesertmesa (Nov 1, 2022)

BBarn said:


> I predict the R6II will use a version of the R3 sensor but will lack the processing power for blackout-free EVF and non-rolling ES performance of the R3.


A slower processor would limit FPS but not the sensor scan speed.


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## Bahrd (Nov 1, 2022)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Sony claims to have dramatically improved the IBIS, but I have not seen anyone who actually tested it.


These guys are a quite reliable source (in Polish): Sony A7R V hands-on. They say: 


> _Jeśli chodzi o nasze obserwacje, to uzyskaliśmy taki sam rezultat jak w teście A7R IV – 3 i 2/3 EV._


That is, there is no noticeable improvement.


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## Alam (Nov 1, 2022)

Photo Bunny said:


> I don't think anyone wants a $4000-$5000+ R6 Mk2.


1DXmIII coat 6500 yet R6 with practically same sensor is 2500


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## koenkooi (Nov 1, 2022)

Marco Birri said:


> More likely than not, if they keep to dual SD cards, you can totally forget 195 fps raw


On the R3, it buffers to memory and then writes it out to the card, it is limited to 50 full size raws in each burst. If the R6II gets the same amount of ram as the R3, it could do the same. The 195 fps mode isn’t limited by the cards.


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## David - Sydney (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> I found that moving from a 7d2 to an R6 gave me cleaner images in all but the best light conditions *despite the massive drop in resolution*. In average conditions I can crop in to match the FOV of the 7d2 and the image is better than the 7d2. The difference in all the other aspects of the sensor and AF more than make up for a lack of pixels most of the time


The resolution of both sensors is ~20mp. If you are referring to a 1.6x crop from ff to APS-c in apparent focal length then there is a difference.


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## landon (Nov 1, 2022)

R6ii to combat a7iv and X-H2S, R6i to combat a7iii, Z6ii, and X-H2. That's it.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> The resolution of both sensors is ~20mp. If you are referring to a 1.6x crop from ff to APS-c in apparent focal length then there is a difference.


Yes. I am referring to pixels on target. Not total sensor resolution. As a wildlife photographer cropping is a given much of the time so that is how I compare my cameras


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## Avenger 2.0 (Nov 1, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon claimed the 24 MP R3 sensor outresolves the 30 MP R sensor, and as an owner of both I found that to be true.


So how is that possible? Is it because the R has an OLPF and the R3 a weaker one or none?


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## kcimer (Nov 1, 2022)

The price of the camera is not 80% sensor and 20% everything else. IBIS unit, EVF, Digic, memory, readers, LCD and materials for the body, projected volume (economy of scale) - return on investment ... 
Thare is a reason for R6 and not wrongly projected supply of sensors. In first year you sell the sensor at the premium with the premium package (body, readers, EVF) all the while perfecting any problems in production (it is easear with a smaller production volume). With the R6 Canon may have also bridged a year of problems with supply chains and scaling of production BSI stacked sensors while making a big profit selling a very competitive body. And maybe good sale numbers of R6 just opened a new strategy resulting in a similar move for R6 II.
So the R6 II price is not than unusual - they can reuse the R6 body, maybe older DIGIC from the R6 and not the advanced one from R3 with less cache memory resulting in 20fps (not 30fps of R3), lower quality EVF (R6 could use an update - in low light it lacks dynamic range), dual SD is cheaper ... and you have a very, very capable body that is very competitive in the market and is a viable choice for all the people who cannot afford or justified the price of R3 or as a second body with similar specs. And you have R3 as a premium product for all the people who needs it.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Nov 1, 2022)

Alam said:


> 1DXmIII coat 6500 yet R6 with practically same sensor is 2500


The 1Dx3 doesn’t use a fantastically expensive stacked sensor and all the electronics that come with it.


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## koenkooi (Nov 1, 2022)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> So how is that possible? Is it because the R has an OLPF and the R3 a weaker one or none?


Yes, starting with the 1Dx3 Canon has used a 'high res 16-point' OLPF. Shooting the 1dx3 and RP side by side, the pictures from the 1dx3 had a lot more detail, even if it had 6 fewer megapixels. This was shooting on a tripod using the 180L and manual focus, so the 1dx3 couldn't flex its AF muscles


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

Photo Bunny said:


> The 1Dx3 doesn’t use a fantastically expensive stacked sensor and all the electronics that come with it.


You say 'fantastically expensive ' sensor. Can you inform us what the price difference would be to reuse the r3 sensor as opposed to designing, retooling and producing and all new 24mp CMOS FF sensor? I literally have no idea so really need someone to fill me in


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## Skyscraperfan (Nov 1, 2022)

Not sure if changing the order of the layers really makes it much more expensive. Would it really cost more to print the electrical circuits at the back of the photodiodes?


Source: PC Mag


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## EOS 4 Life (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> You say 'fantastically expensive ' sensor. Can you inform us what the price difference would be to reuse the r3 sensor as opposed to designing, retooling and producing and all new 24mp CMOS FF sensor? I literally have no idea so really need someone to fill me in


All that we really know for sure is what Canon charges to replace the R3 image sensor.
It is quite a lot more expensive than they charge for replacing the sensor in the 1DX III.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

EOS 4 Life said:


> All that we really know for sure is what Canon charges to replace the R3 image sensor.
> It is quite a lot more expensive than they charge for replacing the sensor in the 1DX III.


How much more? Again. I have no idea so I need a number to go off


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 1, 2022)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Not sure if changing the order of the layers really makes it much more expensive. Would it really cost more to print the electrical circuits at the back of the photodiodes?
> View attachment 206095
> 
> Source: PC Mag


BSI etches the substrate wafer from both sides meaning a thinner, more fragile wafer. That likely leads to greater QC loss, which disproportionately affects larger sensors (with FSI, and made even worse with BSI). 

Stacking requires a second die fused to the photodiode die. However, putting the bulk of the circuitry on a second die means the photodiode die is simpler and can be fabricated with larger-scale (older, cheaper) processes. 

I have no idea how that breaks down in actual numbers. Certainly when they were new tech, BSI sensors cost more. But BSI enabled smaller pixel pitch, driven mainly by the smartphone and industrial sensors that are a much larger market than ILCs, and no doubt major efforts were made to reduce fab costs. 

Either way, for high-end items like ILCs (all of them, even entry-level), the cost of goods is not the most important factor in setting price. It’s much more about market size and the required margin to drive ROI on the R&D. 

An example from my own industry, the first Vertex drug to treat cystic fibrosis costs ~$475 per pill. One Tylenol caplet costs about the same to manufacture as one Kalydeco tablet, so that $475 for one pill would buy you >6,000 Tylenol caplets.


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## abforums (Nov 1, 2022)

I am just surprised - if announcement is just a day away, why was there no sign of any attempts to clear existing R6 stock from Canon?
They could've cleared a big stockpile through promos before the mark-II release 
Post news release, they will have to drop the mark-1 prices even more to move it.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> How much more? Again. I have no idea so I need a number to go off


I can't give you exact prices since even if I did have that information it wouldn't be public. I can give you sensor replacement costs from Nikon however, $250-$300 for the Z7 45MP BSI sensor and $3000 for a replacement Z9 sensor. This tracks with my understanding that stacked sensors are at least 10x more expensive and I believe they are volatile as there is some DRAM on the package.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Nov 1, 2022)

abforums said:


> I am just surprised - if announcement is just a day away, why was there no sign of any attempts to clear existing R6 stock from Canon?
> They could've cleared a big stockpile through promos before the mark-II release
> Post news release, they will have to drop the mark-1 prices even more to move it.


Maybe the stocks are already low. I kinda imagine the R6 Mk2 is a cost cutting exercise since the OG R6 uses sensors intended for the 1Dx line.


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## willwest (Nov 1, 2022)

What does that middle button do?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 1, 2022)

キヤノン「EOS R6 Mark II」と「RF135mm F1.8 L IS USM」の画像


ネット上に、キヤノンの「EOS R6 Mark II」と「RF135mm F1....



digicame--info-com.translate.goog





Some answers...

R6II uses the new multifunction shoe. No top LCD.


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## wockawocka (Nov 1, 2022)

They've changed the power dial. Damn you Canon, Damn you.


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## koenkooi (Nov 1, 2022)

wockawocka said:


> They've changed the power dial. Damn you Canon, Damn you.


On the plus side, the stills/video switch means that the video modes now have C1/C2/C3 and all the usual Av/Tv/M modes.


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## Sharlin (Nov 1, 2022)

abforums said:


> I am just surprised - if announcement is just a day away, why was there no sign of any attempts to clear existing R6 stock from Canon?


...what existing stock? In what reality do you live in? Here in the real world they have almost certainly sold every single R6 that they have managed to manufacture, thanks to high demand combined with Covid-related supply issues.


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## drisley (Nov 1, 2022)

t4haughton said:


> I have to admit I'm confused by this. Apart from the extra megapixels, it doesn't sound like a big change.
> 
> It also seems strange to be updating the "baby brother" without a similar bump to the R5 - weren't they were originally released together?


To me,a change in the sensor is the biggest change you can make in a camera, especially if it's a BSI stacked sensor. Look at the A7RV. It's basically the same camera, with the same sensor as the A7RIV and it took over 3 years for that. It has a new LCD (finally not the typical Sony crap) and apparently improved AF (though still not as good as the R5 or R6 apparently).
The R6 came out 2 years ago, so this could be a very big change. I know we used to wait many years for updates to cameras and the changes were very small, like with the 5DII, III, IV etc. Generally increases in MP are the biggest upgrades in cameras (I remember going from the 1D2n to the 1D3 and 1D4 was very small aside from slight bumps in megapixels).


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## drisley (Nov 1, 2022)

entoman said:


> The R6 is an extremely good camera, and the only real reason why it "needs" updating is the perceived notion that 20MP isn't good enough, i.e. not as big a number as the sensors is Nikon and Sony competitors. I doubt very much if anyone will notice any difference in real terms between the 20MP sensor of the R6 and the 24MP sensor of the R6 Mkii.
> 
> On paper, there don't appear to be any other major changes, apart from the unexpected and unusual addition of a digital teleconverter, this being the first time that such a feature has been included in a pro-level camera. I suspect that it may incorporate some AI software that will improve sharpness and detail rendition over and above what would be normally expected from such a feature.
> 
> As for a "R5 Mkii" - the R5 is a superb camera, when it gets updated I'd expect only a few minor enhancements. Sometime in early 2023 we'll probably see the announcement of a hi-res "R5S", and I'd expect the "R5 Mkii" to be announced alongside it.


I will say the 20MP on the R6 scales up REALLY nicely. I downloaded raw files from the R5 and R6 taken of landscapes, natural light portraits, and studio portraits. When output to 45 MP using Adobe Camera Raw, and then overlayed over the R5 files, I could almost never tell a difference. In fact if I used the enhance feature of ACR and output to 45 MP, the R6 files always looked better than the native R5 files when zoomed to 100% on a 5k monitor (I sent blank PSDs to a fellow graphic designer/photographer and he picked the R6 files as being more detailed 9 times out of 10, viewed 100% on 5K monitors). These were taken with the best Canon RF primes too (including the RF85 1.2). Basically anything you can print (or crop) with R5 files at 45 MP, you can print an R6 file. Though I don't think many people actually print, it's more about "bragging rights" or feeling they got the most for their money. I have printed advertisements for transit buses from 10 MP cams that look amazing btw.
I think people get really caught up in numbers and marketing. In fact I know it because I've been one of those people. I refused to get an R6 because it was a step down from the 5DIV and EOS R that I had when it came to megapixels. However, in real world there is no real difference in detail (though the 5DIV files were just so clean to me). I do think some people worry about resale of a low MP camera. I've even had photographers tell me that they've had customers ask "how many megapixels is your camera" before they hire them. LOL.


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## drisley (Nov 1, 2022)

Photo Bunny said:


> I don't think anyone wants a $4000-$5000+ R6 Mk2.


Nobody does! I mean, we already pay $3400 for an R6 in Canada! But the good news is the R6 II is the same price as the R6 (at least in the US) and it has essentially been confirmed to be a BSI stacked sensor.


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## drisley (Nov 1, 2022)

EricN said:


> Any new details on Canon RF 135mm f/1.8L IS USM?


My friend got to try it last week and he said it's "amazing". I think the price was announced yesterday.


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## drisley (Nov 1, 2022)

t4haughton said:


> Good point about the R5C. Still feels weird they're on different cycles. Maybe that's because I'm used to Apple updating their more premium products more often than their downmarket offerings (iPhone and Watch SEs for example.)


Yes this has traditionally been the opposite of what camera manufacturers like Canon have done. I've used Canon cameras for 18 years and the low end cams get updated the most frequent and the top end cams get updated a lot less frequently. Sony has sort of bucked that trend as they update cams very often (which I personally don't like) and it's forced other companies to do something similar.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Nov 1, 2022)

drisley said:


> Nobody does! I mean, we already pay $3400 for an R6 in Canada! But the good news is the R6 II is the same price as the R6 (at least in the US) and it has essentially been confirmed to be a BSI stacked sensor.


I don't see anything in the leaked specs suggesting it is anything more than just a BSI sensor.


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## SteveC (Nov 1, 2022)

Jethro said:


> Mate, fungi don't move that fast!


Not even when in flight.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

Photo Bunny said:


> I can't give you exact prices since even if I did have that information it wouldn't be public. I can give you sensor replacement costs from Nikon however, $250-$300 for the Z7 45MP BSI sensor and $3000 for a replacement Z9 sensor. This tracks with my understanding that stacked sensors are at least 10x more expensive and I believe they are volatile as there is some DRAM on the package.


That is a massive difference.if that is purely down to the cost of the sensor then yep. No way the r62 will have a stacked sensor.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> That is a massive difference.if that is purely down to the cost of the sensor then yep. No way the r62 will have a stacked sensor.


Only difference there is that Canon make their own sensors and Nikon get Sony to fab theirs. But still, a crop sensor stacked is priced with a R6 mostly due to that sensor.


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## abforums (Nov 1, 2022)

Sharlin said:


> ...what existing stock? In what reality do you live in? Here in the real world they have almost certainly sold every single R6 that they have managed to manufacture, thanks to high demand combined with Covid-related supply issues.


You may be right.
It was possibly just wishful thinking on my part


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## jam05 (Nov 1, 2022)

Aussie shooter said:


> That is a massive difference.if that is purely down to the cost of the sensor then yep. No way the r62 will have a stacked sensor.


Pricing of high end items are determined by "Value Marketing". Not raw material cost. The price of the device doesn't have anthing to do with the individual component material prices. If it did, the camera would cost about $400. Stacked sensors are cheaper to manufacture than plan BSI CMOS sensors. Why? Because the supporting electronic componentes that must be included. CMOS sensor don't operate in a vacuum. Stacked sensors have the supporting electronics in the layer beneath. The electronics layer. Manufactured in the the second layer run.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Pricing of high end items are determined by "Value Marketing". Not raw material cost. The price of the device doesn't have anthing to do with the individual component material prices. If it did, the camera would cost about $400. Stacked sensors are cheaper to manufacture than plan BSI CMOS sensors. Why? Because the supporting electronic componentes that must be included. CMOS sensor don't operate in a vacuum. Stacked sensors have the supporting electronics in the layer beneath. The electronics layer. Manufactured in the the second layer run.


I agree with the first part of your statement. Prices are not determined purely by material cost. As for the second, I would need to see actual evidence of manufacturing costs before i believed it


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 2, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Pricing of high end items are determined by "Value Marketing". Not raw material cost. The price of the device doesn't have anthing to do with the individual component material prices. If it did, the camera would cost about $400. Stacked sensors are cheaper to manufacture than plan BSI CMOS sensors. Why? Because the supporting electronic componentes that must be included. CMOS sensor don't operate in a vacuum. Stacked sensors have the supporting electronics in the layer beneath. The electronics layer. Manufactured in the the second layer run.


You keep claiming this, and never cite any sources (other than your own purported vast experience). While ILCs, like other high-end goods, are priced based on value marketing, parts replacements are generally based on the cost of goods and the labor to replace them. Since the labor to replace a sensor is unlikely to be significantly affected by whether or not that sensor is stacked, BSI or standard CMOS, how do you explain the 10-fold cost difference charged by multiple manufacturers for stacked sensors?

Your assumption seems to be based on the logic that it must be cheaper to include the DSP/ADC/DRAM in a second die fabricated and bonded to the photodiode-containing die. Here's the main board of the R5, where the DSP/ADC/DRAM are all independent chips that are off-sensor and located on the main PCB. I have no idea which of those chips are which, but clearly none of those chips are anywhere near the size of a FF sensor over which that circuitry must be spread in a stacked sensor. The individual, dedicated ICs would seem to use much less silicon, and be much easier to fabricate. 




Here's simple question – Sony has been using stacked CMOS sensors in a few of their cameras since 2015. If they're so much cheaper to make, why don't they use them in all their cameras?


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## r134a (Nov 2, 2022)

Whelp. There it is. No stacked sensor. They removed the recording limit and fixed overheating (partially) by claiming it'll record for 40 minutes instead of just 10. 

A truly incremental and marginal improvement to reflect the lack of increase in price.


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## USMarineCorpsVet (Nov 28, 2022)

Deleted member 381342 said:


> The R3 is a fantastic camera. I would have no issues using it instead of a Nikon Z9. The major differences between them is if you want more pixels or less pixels... personally I would have preferred the Z9 stuck with the 24 MP range too.


I think the idea that we shouldn't want a higher resolution camera is antiquated. This isn't 2010 anymore. The R3 is underwhelming and expensive compared to the A1 and Z9. At this point Canon probably holding off on a competitive mpx camera because they know that the R3 will be a complete after thought, especially at that price.


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## USMarineCorpsVet (Nov 28, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon has sold more ILCs than any of their competitors every year for the last two decades. Last year, they sold more than twice as many ILCs as #2 Sony, and more than Sony, Nikon, Fuji and Panasonic combined.
> 
> Oh, you mean falling behind in making the camera you personally want. No one but you cares. Go buy a camera from one of the competitors you think are so far ahead. Then go troll their rumors forum instead.


There are plenty of people who care about that segment. You sound like an angry bitter person who probably forked over 6K for an R3 and is realizing buyer's remorse. You can quote sales of cheap cameras all you want, it still has no bearing on Canon not having a worthy competitor in that segment. What you want to say is, "I don't care about your opinion", because it's outright nonsense to say no one cares about the release of an R1.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 28, 2022)

USMarineCorpsVet said:


> At this point Canon probably holding off on a competitive mpx camera because they know that the R3 will be a complete after thought, especially at that price.


So you’re saying the R3 is an afterthought and that’s why Canon is holding off on releasing a higher (than 45) MP camera? Let me introduce you to a concept known as logic, it’s clear of the two of you have never met.


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## USMarineCorpsVet (Nov 28, 2022)

ShowMeTheEagles said:


> It doesn't seem that "strange" to me. The R5 is still a solid camera in both the R lineup and against it's competition. Despite some FW bungling of late, Canon has continued to update it to keep it relevant. It can easily go another year, year and a half, before getting an update -- which I think it will. I doubt we'll see the R5 II until well after the R1 ships because the R5 II will likely borrow a lot from the R1. As an R5 user and probably not an R1 buyer, I'm happy w/ not seeing an R5 until 2024, assuming this is the case.
> 
> The R6, OTOH, became little lost in both the R lineup and the competition as a lower resolution body when the R7 was released. A lot of R6's initial buyers were enthusiasts that wanted more than an R but just didn't want to, or could not plunk down $3700 for the R5. Of course, there were also pros that were perfectly happy with lower resolution because it aided in processing and keeping storage costs reasonable.
> 
> But with the R7's intro, enthusiasts had the new choice of a MP $1500 body. Sure, crop sensor, but in many genres that's even desirable or a non-factor. And even for the pros who initially bought into the R6, 20mp these days for a mid-level body is low. (Not to mention that Nikon is rumored to be reading the Z6 III, presumably with AF borrowed from the Z9). So the R6 II will address that issue to rejuvenate it and also spread some distance between the R7 and R6 choices.


Sounds like you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you repeat the often quoted myth that "pros" don't want a high mpx camera because it requires too much storage and processing, and then lament that 20mpx is too small for a mid level body. This is not 2010 anymore. The advantages of higher mpx severely outweigh any perceived disadvantage. But you can always spend 6K for the low mpx R3 if you want...


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 28, 2022)

USMarineCorpsVet said:


> There are plenty of people who care about that segment. You sound like an angry bitter person who probably forked over 6K for an R3 and is realizing buyer's remorse. You can quote sales of cheap cameras all you want, it still has no bearing on Canon not having a worthy competitor in that segment. What you want to say is, "I don't care about your opinion", because it's outright nonsense to say no one cares about the release of an R1.


Lol, almost spit out my coffee over that post. 

I’m sure the R1 will be along eventually. If another system meets your needs and Canon doesn’t, why are you here complaining? Go out and buy what you need. Too lazy? Can’t afford to? Well, at least complaining is easy and free.

The point is that Canon is going to prioritize cameras to maximize their ROI, and to increase their MILC market share (which they told investors they would do). Relatively inexpensive bodies are key to the latter, the R1 is not.

The 1-series has also been on a 4-year cycle lately, meaning an R1 in 2024 makes sense. Canon could choose to launch one earlier, and I suspect if the R3 was merely a poorly-selling ‘afterthought’ they’d likely have done so already. But they haven’t.

I did spend $6K on an R3 and more than that on RF lenses (and even more on EF lenses that work perfectly on the R3), and overall I’m thrilled, especially with the R3. If I thought another system would be better for me, I’d switch because I’m not lazy and I can afford it.

Oh, and it shouldn’t need to be said but I’ll be explicit because you sound like a confused person who has difficulty understanding subtlety – I don’t care about _your_ opinion.


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