# EOS 5D Mark IV To Use EOS C300 Mark II Technology? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 10, 2015)

```
We’re told that the upcoming Canon EOS 5D Mark IV sensor will employ the same dual-channel readout as the EOS C300 Mark II.</p>
<p>The source says:</p>
<blockquote><p>… this essentially works as a hardware implementation of what the Magic Lantern guys did with software, and actually takes it a bit further.</p></blockquote>
<p>There has been no real confirmation that the EOS 5D Mark IV will shoot 4K video like the EOS C300 Mark II. Although, a lot of people almost expect it to be able to.</p>
<p>An announcement for the EOS 5D Mark IV is not expected until late summer at the earliest.</p>
```


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 10, 2015)

If so I hope it's still raw.


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## Maximilian (Apr 10, 2015)

Sounds promissing.


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## bmwzimmer (Apr 10, 2015)

If True, then take my money Canon!!!


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## IglooEater (Apr 10, 2015)

Any chance the 5d iv will have 15 stops of latitude as well?


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## Orangutan (Apr 10, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> the upcoming Canon EOS 5D Mark IV sensor will employ the same dual-channel readout



Simultaneously innovative and conservative! An interesting way to provide a significant DR boost without huge capital expenditure. If it works well, and doesn't kill too much resolution, this should serve as a decent bridge for another few years.

Question for the chip-heads: can Sony sensors do dual readout, or is that precluded by the on-chip A/D, or something else...?


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## 9VIII (Apr 10, 2015)

Yay Magic Lantern!




IglooEater said:


> Any chance the 5d iv will have 15 stops of latitude as well?


That's basically what the article says.


Exciting as that thought may be, if more DR means less resolution, I would rather have 12 stops of DR in a 30MP+ 1DxMk2


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## bmwzimmer (Apr 10, 2015)

Any chance of Canon implementing this on the 5DS/5DSR?


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 10, 2015)

IglooEater said:


> Any chance the 5d iv will have 15 stops of latitude as well?



I doubt the output will be >14 bits. Maybe if this option requires tiff it may be 16 bit.


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## Random Orbits (Apr 10, 2015)

bmwzimmer said:


> Any chance of Canon implementing this on the 5DS/5DSR?



Most likely not. The Westfall videos released when the 5DS/5DSR were released indicated that DR will be similar for 5DIII.


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## siegsAR (Apr 10, 2015)

That being hardware based and then some I'd expect it would be much "cleaner".

Software interpolation might cause the resolution bit w/ ML, hardware should should fix that.


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## dolina (Apr 10, 2015)

I wonder if they'll be using CFast... In all seriousness it should only be applied to Cinema EOS first before trickling it down to the 1-Series and 5-Series.


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## Light_Pilgrim (Apr 10, 2015)

bmwzimmer said:


> If True, then take my money Canon!!!



I actually do not understand the announcement. So what are you willing to pay for? Read it a couple of times and did not understand. Thanks for an explanation


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## lintoni (Apr 10, 2015)

I haven't looked at the C300 specs... is this going to be an implementation of Canon's dual pixel chip design?


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## -1 (Apr 10, 2015)

No 5D4 at all then... Say hi to the 5Dc!


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## andrewflo (Apr 10, 2015)

That would be a very nice addition to the 5D series. Good to see some innovation coming from Canon (well... really from the Magic Lantern guys).


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## Marsu42 (Apr 10, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> … this essentially works as a hardware implementation of what the Magic Lantern guys did with software, and actually takes it a bit further.



Unbelieveable, I didn't think Canon would copy any ML innovation because af sheer principle. I hope, now they have to officially ack that ML isn't there to threaten their brand and maybe be of more assistance in development. Giving an "unofficial" sdk to the guys would save manyears of dumb reverse engineering.

And it gives a hint to the anti-drones 'round the CR forum that having more dynamic range esp. in video isn't something to be ignored  ... now please do raw video too, will you, Canon?



siegsAR said:


> That being hardware based and then some I'd expect it would be much "cleaner". Software interpolation might cause the resolution bit w/ ML, hardware should should fix that.



I wouldn't be so sure there - an in-camera "software" implementation actually relies on the PC hardware, i.e. much more computing power and it can take all the time it takes to get optimal iq. An in-camera "hardware" design is limited by time and computation constraints. 

If it's the ML dual_iso idea, there's no 'round the fact that some deep shadows and highlights are missing in each other scanline and have to interpolated. It just depends on the algorithm to do it, not where it's done.


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## Stu_bert (Apr 10, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > … this essentially works as a hardware implementation of what the Magic Lantern guys did with software, and actually takes it a bit further.
> ...



It also indicates that this is either more cost effective than going the same route as Sony's solution, or as I read on FredMiranda, Sony patents prevent Canon from doing on-chip ADC.

But in true Canon fashion, the perception will be to puzzle & frustrate anyone thinking of the 5Ds cameras if the IV does get it. Given that a lot of this feature set was agreed internally probably about 18 months ago, and given the gap between the C300 II and the 5Ds, it is bizarre if this tech appears in the mk IV and not in the 5Ds. One can perhaps only conclude that the target market for the 5Ds was not asking for this... hmmm....

Even more interesting if the IV has it and the 1DX II does not....


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## horshack (Apr 10, 2015)

Is the 5DM4 rumor of dual-ISO readout for video or stills or both?


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## PureClassA (Apr 10, 2015)

Random Orbits said:


> bmwzimmer said:
> 
> 
> > Any chance of Canon implementing this on the 5DS/5DSR?
> ...



If it really is a simple matter of firmware implementation like ML, then I don't see why they wouldn't. There is also the possibility that at least in part, this is why the delay between announcement and release is so long. It seems the capability is there UNLESS of course this is something geared towards DPAF, which the 5DSR will not have so far as we know. I would expect the 5D4 however to be DPAF. Since they say "its a hardware issue" I suspect it IS directly related to DPAF.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Apr 10, 2015)

If it uses it, it will be for stills, not video. No way is Canon putting their video DR from their $16,000 offering on a $3,500 offering.


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## Woody (Apr 10, 2015)

Stu_bert said:


> ... or as I read on FredMiranda, Sony patents prevent Canon from doing on-chip ADC.



I do not buy the Sony patent explanation. Samsung did it on the NX1, didn't they? Obviously there are many ways to achieve the same goal.


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## mackguyver (Apr 10, 2015)

I wonder if it is just some upgraded version of the HDR movie mode from the new T6s, which seems to have been overlooked by just about everyone. I have no idea how well it works but here's a brief bit about it - from this page:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_rebel_t6s_ef_s_18_135mm_is_stm_lens_kit#Features


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## Stu_bert (Apr 10, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > bmwzimmer said:
> ...



Canon could indeed do the same as ML through firmware. 

There's little info on how they do the 15 stops on the C300 II - there are 2 Digic DV 5s, but hardware could just mean using these, could mean 2 off-chip ADCs reading them in parallel, one digic aligned to an ADC. 

I think there were previous discussions about using DPAF to do dual ISO and I believe the consensus was the technology did not allow this. But that might have been a hallucination...


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## raptor3x (Apr 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Question for the chip-heads: can Sony sensors do dual readout, or is that precluded by the on-chip A/D, or something else...?



Even if they could there wouldn't be much point. The dual readout only helps mitigate the read noise issue which isn't present to nearly the same degree in the Sony sensors.


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## raptor3x (Apr 10, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > bmwzimmer said:
> ...



This is almost certainly related to DPAF. One of the downsides with the Magic Lantern DualISO implementation is that, at least with the initial somewhat naive implementation, you lose half of your resolution in direction that you're alternating exposure. DPAF gives you twice the pixel density in one direction, which should be able to overcome the resolution issue, as well as the interpolation problems, without resorting to computationally expensive interpolation techniques. Whether the 7D2/70D/5Ds(?) DPAF architecture is actually capable of alternating exposure for pixels is another matter entirely. It's possible that Canon developed DPAF without realizing it's potential for improving RAW dynamic range and required a hardware revision to make it possible.


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## Stu_bert (Apr 10, 2015)

Woody said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > ... or as I read on FredMiranda, Sony patents prevent Canon from doing on-chip ADC.
> ...



Didnt realise they had... concur therefore, unlikely to be a patent issue...


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## Stu_bert (Apr 10, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Random Orbits said:
> ...



Wouldnt that require separate circuitry for each pair of sub-pixels? I'd assumed (no idea!) that they'd be on the same currently.


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## LOALTD (Apr 10, 2015)

But, but, all these friendly folks on the forums insist that more than 12-stops isn't necessary.  


Kind of like how friendly Nikon folks insisted that more than 12MP wasn't necessary...until the D800 came out.


In all seriousness though, this is exciting. If this camera delivers on DR and video, I may stay with Canon rather than switching to Sony. This is your last stand Canon, make it a good one!


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## HurtinMinorKey (Apr 10, 2015)

wow. Canon desperately wants to avoid creating new sensors at all costs. Dual gain retrofitting of old sensors...


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## lintoni (Apr 10, 2015)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> wow. Canon desperately wants to avoid creating new sensors at all costs. Dual gain retrofitting of old sensors...


And Dual Pixel sensors are old tech?


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## KeithBreazeal (Apr 10, 2015)

The C300 Mark II has a 8.85 mega pixel sensor, so I doubt the 5D mark IV will use the same sensor- or maybe I'm missing something here.


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## Orangutan (Apr 10, 2015)

LOALTD said:


> But, but, all these friendly folks on the forums insist that more than 12-stops isn't necessary.



I don't think anyone in the forums believes more DR is bad. The assertion has always been that the Sonikon DR advantage does not make up for Canon's advantages in other areas (lenses, accessories, reliability, resale value, service & support, etc) except in unusual and/or niche circumstances. I'm pretty sure even Neuro would pre-order a 1DX Mk II with 15 stops of DR.


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## Maiaibing (Apr 10, 2015)

If it takes 20.000 USD to get 9.4 megapix of this technology - I cannot see the relevance for a 5D-whatever.

Just does not match up at all.


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## PureClassA (Apr 10, 2015)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> If it uses it, it will be for stills, not video. No way is Canon putting their video DR from their $16,000 offering on a $3,500 offering.



There is a ton more to the Cinema bodies than just DR. Don't get hung up on that.


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## raptor3x (Apr 10, 2015)

Stu_bert said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Yeah, I would think so but I'm not an EE so that's way beyond my ability to speak with any authority.


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## PureClassA (Apr 10, 2015)

Woody said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > ... or as I read on FredMiranda, Sony patents prevent Canon from doing on-chip ADC.
> ...



Canon has had their own patent for column parallel ADCs published since 2013. It's not a patent issue. I don't believe Canon has ever promulgated that myth. Although it does get played on forums like this :


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## PureClassA (Apr 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> If it takes 20.000 USD to get 9.4 megapix of this technology - I cannot see the relevance for a 5D-whatever.
> 
> Just does not match up at all.



It takes $16k to get a C300 II with a a pixel-for-pixel perfect 4k density with 15 stops of DR, yes..... Plus the bucket loads of other high end cinema dedicated features, XLR and SDI inputs/outputs, recording capabilities, 10 variations of built in ND filters, waveform/zebra/focus peaking/etc displays and all with the capability of recording out in 14 Bit RAW or 4:4:4 ProRes.

I was hoping they would have priced it closer to 10-12k but oh well. Still can't compare the two.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 10, 2015)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> wow. Canon desperately wants to avoid creating new sensors at all costs.



Have you intelligence that the C300II uses old an sensor? I would bet you sight unseen that it's new.

Canon likely wants to avoid retooling their entire fab if they can, not "at all costs," but to avoid costs.

If they can improve their camera output without a new fab, why shouldn't they?


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## HurtinMinorKey (Apr 10, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > wow. Canon desperately wants to avoid creating new sensors at all costs.
> ...



If it really is a hardware implementation of the ML increase in DR, then it's added DR at the expense of resolution. So instead of coming up with a more sensitive sensor, they are sacrificing one aspect of the image for the sake of the other.


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## raptor3x (Apr 10, 2015)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



Not if they use a layout similar to what's used in the DPAF sensors where you have twice the resolution in one direction.


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## 9VIII (Apr 10, 2015)

LOALTD said:


> But, but, all these friendly folks on the forums insist that more than 12-stops isn't necessary.



That hasn't changed, and yes, 12 Megapixels is excessive... for facebook.

The problem with people saying "such and such a spec isn't good enough", is they make their arguments blind to any application.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 10, 2015)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



It's all speculation at this point, but I doubt they're just adjusting firmware. I bet they changed their signal chain to be able to amplify the entire sensor readout twice simultaneously.


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## Jokke_r (Apr 10, 2015)

The mention of magiclantern doesnt meam theyre doing the every other line different iso, which was a hardware limitation.
Im fairly sure they are just reading the sensor once, duplicating the signal and pumping it through different adc's and then combining the two resulting exposures. It would be stupid and slow to try and do ML's implementation in camera since the interpolation algorithms are extremely CPU intensive and slow, unless they developed hardware process of doing that work for them in realtime, which is idiotic since that would be more work than simply developing the hardware to duplicate the sensor output which should be fairly trivial in comparison and result in a full resolution composite and be much much faster since no interpolation is required.


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## IglooEater (Apr 10, 2015)

Um, as to 12 stops of DR being enough, what is exciting us, or me at any rate, isn't so much the 3 more stops, but the fact that the c300II maintains that dynamic range at higher iso's. 15 stops at ISO 100 is one thing, but 15 stops at ISO 102,400 is another thing altogether. I for one would love to have 3 more stops at low ISO, but I'd really lkill for that much higher up the ISO ladder


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

They did have a dual-ISO per photosite read out patent put out a few years ago. It's just like what Dr. Martinec suggested a few years prior in the DPR forums. It's much better than the ML hack, since you don't lose any resolution. It's real.

AFAIK, it would require a better fab than what they have made all CMOS DSLR sensors through the 5Ds on though. Did they decide to bump P&S off the 180nm copper pipe fab (can this one even handle DSLR sensors)? Secretly build a new fab without anyone noticing the big $$$? Make a deal with some other fab to make it for them? Manage to somehow find a way to squeeze the patent out of 500nm?

Absolutely awesome new if this is true though. It would even beat the best the D810 can do by a little.

Of course it just makes the 5Ds look all the more Canon. There they have a camera that screams out for this tech more than anything but it's like marketing was nope, gotta only deliver one thing at a time, gotta save stuff for the 5Ds2. So we bump the MP way up but make sure to keep it on old sensor tech even though this camera, of all cameras, would be the one most begging for the new sensor tech and then we of course totally cripple the Crop mode so it can't dare become an all-around camera like the D810, let's make sure the crop mode won't apply to RAW shooting to nobody gets the benefit of larger buffer, more fps, storage savings, gotta save that for the Mark II!!

And then with the 5D4 they are like OK we will keep the MP count low like 22-24MP so no we can dare to use the new sensor tech. One hopes they don't also hold back 4k, so typically Canon.

But all the same, if this rumor is true, that really would be great news!! The 5Ds would look really like a silly marketing made wreck but at least we know that 5D4 and all the sensors will be awesome again and the 5D4 might end up potentially better than the D810 in all ways other than for MP count (and maybe color) and the next round in another three years or so should really be great stuff.

But before too much excitement, the rumor might be pure BS, might have been misinterpreted along the way, some of it might be fake reading into slog2, etc. etc. but if it is the dual-ISO patent that would likely be pretty awesome.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

IglooEater said:


> Any chance the 5d iv will have 15 stops of latitude as well?



At 8MP/4k equivalent (which is what DxO normalizes too so you can directly compare to their Print DR numbers) it certainly could. The Canon DSLR base sensors are supposed to be 15+ stops for a long time, but their old fab meant they had to do some of the read out stage off chip and that just killed all the DR. A simultaneous dual-ISO read of each photosite would fix things a lot and I wouldn't be surprised if it could get 15 stops at 8MP normalization out of it. Maybe they are using or farming out to a new fab or found some way to cram the dual-ISO similtaneous readout circuitry onto the old fab process.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > the upcoming Canon EOS 5D Mark IV sensor will employ the same dual-channel readout
> ...



It either kills a ton of resolution, if done the ML way, which would be a joke. Or they are using the dual-ISO simulatneous read per photosite patent, which would be awesome. Many think that patent requires better than their old 500nm fab to implement though so either they are able to make DSLR sensors on their 180nm copper pipe fab and bumped the P&S stuff off that finally, somehow secretly spent a lot of money on a new fab that nobody noticed, made a deal to farm it out to some other fab for production, found some scheme to manage to make it on 500nm fab.

Assuming off course this is real and not someone just speculating and then sending in their made up dreams as a supposed legit rumor and that if a real input something wasn't misinterpreted.



> Question for the chip-heads: can Sony sensors do dual readout, or is that precluded by the on-chip A/D, or something else...?



Canon holds the patent for it, so probably not.
They don't need to though since they use their on chip parallel ADC system.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

bmwzimmer said:


> Any chance of Canon implementing this on the 5DS/5DSR?



nope, although it would have made all the sense in the world, 5Ds cried out for it more than any model
it's already been measured and it definitely does not do this (only if by some miracle they held back a better sensor and could swap it in if too much public outrcy, but I mean, that seems like fanciful thinking! and it's due in stores so soon, basically no way)


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > … this essentially works as a hardware implementation of what the Magic Lantern guys did with software, and actually takes it a bit further.
> ...



They didn't copy ML if this is real, simultaneous per photosite ISO read out and if all it is is the ML hack in firmware, that won't fly! That's totally fake and hits resolution.

First, Emil Martinec first talked about such a scheme years ago on DPR.
Second, I'm pretty sure Canon had a patent out on this prior to ML's dual-ISO hack too.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

horshack said:


> Is the 5DM4 rumor of dual-ISO readout for video or stills or both?



I suppose it could be that it is not the dual-ISO read patent that some think and something that only works for the slower shutter speeds of video and thus video only on the 5D4 too?
Hopefully not.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

Woody said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > ... or as I read on FredMiranda, Sony patents prevent Canon from doing on-chip ADC.
> ...



yes

all those who do that have modern fabs though


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

If it is, I wonder how they manage to have reduced rolling shutter by 2x on the C300 II though, they'd have to be reading the sensor mad fast if it was just this sort of method.



mackguyver said:


> I wonder if it is just some upgraded version of the HDR movie mode from the new T6s, which seems to have been overlooked by just about everyone. I have no idea how well it works but here's a brief bit about it - from this page:
> 
> http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_rebel_t6s_ef_s_18_135mm_is_stm_lens_kit#Features


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

LOALTD said:


> But, but, all these friendly folks on the forums insist that more than 12-stops isn't necessary.
> 
> 
> Kind of like how friendly Nikon folks insisted that more than 12MP wasn't necessary...until the D800 came out.
> ...



It is funny how excited all those trashing the 'Droners' are the second their is some talk about Canon possibly getting even just a trace more DR than Exmor! ;D ;D ;D ;D :


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > If it takes 20.000 USD to get 9.4 megapix of this technology - I cannot see the relevance for a 5D-whatever.
> ...



Plus the margin on the C300 II has gotta be HUGE too. HUGE.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 10, 2015)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



no, if it's in HW then they can apply it to ALL photosites and it's something new.

The ML version already IS in the HW which is how ML can change the firmware to make it happen already.


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## tyger11 (Apr 10, 2015)

To me, the timing of this leak is suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if Canon saw the comments online about the too-expensive-for-most C300 Mk II and the general disgust at the XC10 and figured if that's all they've got for NAB, people will start looking at non-Canon offerings at NAB. So leak this news of some awesome 5D Mk IV with the C300 Mk II sensor (which doesn't at all imply the same camera capabilities), so try to get people to wait that much longer.


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## lintoni (Apr 10, 2015)

tyger11 said:


> To me, the timing of this leak is suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if Canon saw the comments online about the too-expensive-for-most C300 Mk II and the general disgust at the XC10 and figured if that's all they've got for NAB, people will start looking at non-Canon offerings at NAB. So leak this news of some awesome 5D Mk IV with the C300 Mk II sensor (which doesn't at all imply the same camera capabilities), so try to get people to wait that much longer.


And the moon landings were faked; the Malaysia Airlines tragedies were a false flag operation organised by the illuminati and the US govt has incontrovertible proof for the existence of ETs, but is hiding it.


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## LonelyBoy (Apr 10, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> LOALTD said:
> 
> 
> > But, but, all these friendly folks on the forums insist that more than 12-stops isn't necessary.
> ...



I think all the excitement is just being able to tell everyone who's been threadcrapping all over every forum to finally shut up.


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## quod (Apr 11, 2015)

lintoni said:


> And the moon landings were faked; the Malaysia Airlines tragedies were a false flag operation organised by the illuminati and the US govt has incontrovertible proof for the existence of ETs, but is hiding it.


And Canon doesn't cripple its cameras or time its releases... Um, yeah it does.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 11, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> It is funny how excited all those trashing the 'Droners' are the second their is some talk about Canon possibly getting even just a trace more DR than Exmor! ;D ;D ;D ;D :



I must have missed that


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## Diltiazem (Apr 11, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



They did. A 2010 Canon patent talks about combining high and low ISO signals from each pixels to increase DR. A refined version of the patent was granted in January this year. 
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,928,789.PN.&OS=PN/8,928,789&RS=PN/8,928,789/

A quote from the granted patent, _"In Japanese Patent Application Laid-Open No. 2010-16416, a column amplifying circuit for each of columns generates a low-gain signal and a high-gain signal from each pixel signal from an imaging device. Signals obtained by returning high-gain signals to the same gain as the gain of low-gain signals and the low-gain signals are selectively combined to increase a dynamic range while maintaining an S/N ratio. ". 
_


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## Diltiazem (Apr 11, 2015)

Jokke_r said:


> The mention of magiclantern doesnt meam theyre doing the every other line different iso, which was a hardware limitation.
> Im fairly sure they are just reading the sensor once, duplicating the signal and pumping it through different adc's and then combining the two resulting exposures. It would be stupid and slow to try and do ML's implementation in camera since the interpolation algorithms are extremely CPU intensive and slow, unless they developed hardware process of doing that work for them in realtime, which is idiotic since that would be more work than simply developing the hardware to duplicate the sensor output which should be fairly trivial in comparison and result in a full resolution composite and be much much faster since no interpolation is required.



May be something like this:
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,928,789.PN.&OS=PN/8,928,789&RS=PN/8,928,789


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## lintoni (Apr 11, 2015)

quod said:


> lintoni said:
> 
> 
> > And the moon landings were faked; the Malaysia Airlines tragedies were a false flag operation organised by the illuminati and the US govt has incontrovertible proof for the existence of ETs, but is hiding it.
> ...


Uh huh. Like people whingeing on t'interwebz that a brand new video camera aimed at professional media is too expensive for every Tom, Dick and Harry to pick up and shoot their cousin's wedding with is going to make Canon leak a rumour that a potentially forthcoming possible DSLR may use some innovative technology. Because having a new £3000 DSLR will placate some internet forum muppets who wanted a video camera for tuppence.:


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## erjlphoto (Apr 11, 2015)

Sound promissing. Might turn out to be a real Woo-Hoo camera


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## pedro (Apr 11, 2015)

What will this mean for high ISO sensitivity? Cleaner images above 6400 to 51200 or will a focus on DR prevent from better sensibility to high ISO. Sorry, I am no tech knowledge amateur with a 5D3 ;-)


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## PureClassA (Apr 11, 2015)

Using this tech on the 5D4 seems likely, the 1DX2 a certainty, and the 5DSR damn well should have been. If this was the result of a significant re-tooling of fab process, it explains the wild pricing of this camera and it also means going forward Canon will use it in new Pro bodies. But assuming this was something that only worked well with DPAF, that nixes the use on the 5DSR


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## LonelyBoy (Apr 11, 2015)

quod said:


> lintoni said:
> 
> 
> > And the moon landings were faked; the Malaysia Airlines tragedies were a false flag operation organised by the illuminati and the US govt has incontrovertible proof for the existence of ETs, but is hiding it.
> ...



As opposed to Nikon, Sony, and everyone else in every industry?


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## scottkinfw (Apr 11, 2015)

Sorry for the uninformed question.

In reading through the announcement and this thread so far, I'm trying to figure out what this _might_ all mean for me the one using the camera. 

So my question for you sage people is, what do you think the actual improvement over a 5DIII might actually be, vs. tradeoffs? Mainly interested in stills, but opinion on video would be welcome too.

Better DR
Better resolution
Faster/better focusing (I know not part of the chip tech)
Less noise
Better IQ/color/contrast?
Auto focusing on video
Faster image capture and processing?
Some magic new feature that isn't just fluff?

Thanks for taking the time.

sek


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 11, 2015)

pedro said:


> What will this mean for high ISO sensitivity? Cleaner images above 6400 to 51200 or will a focus on DR prevent from better sensibility to high ISO. Sorry, I am no tech knowledge amateur with a 5D3 ;-)



It won't mean anything in regards to mid-tone SNR at high ISO. You'll just get better DR since the read noise will be miles better. Good stuff if this really is for real!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 11, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> quod said:
> 
> 
> > lintoni said:
> ...



Canon has been worse about it over the last near decade or so.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 11, 2015)

scottkinfw said:


> Sorry for the uninformed question.
> 
> In reading through the announcement and this thread so far, I'm trying to figure out what this _might_ all mean for me the one using the camera.
> 
> ...




This wouldn't apply to any of that other than the DR part and better IQ (for shots that need it) part (because of the better DR). 

The other stuff is all based on marketing decisions and/or other tech and has nothing to do with this at all.

But you can pretty much be assured that the MP count won't match the 5Ds just for the fact that why release the 5Ds if you just come up with the same sensor, only better, like three months later? i think it's got to hint, if this rumor is true of course, that they will hold the MP count way down on the 5D4, perhaps to about the same as is on the 5D3. If not, the 5Ds would be truly pointless then. Nothing in this tech itself says that the MP has to be lower though. It would just appear that Canon didn't want to deliver too much so they held the new tech back from the 5Ds. The 5Ds decision is bizarre IMO. That would be a lot of crippling even for the Canon of today. Of course this rumor has to be true for any of this to apply.

Anyway, things are hinting that the 5D4 might be one heck of a stills camera other than for MP count, possibly better than D810 in all ways other than for MP (and maybe color filter array).... IF this rumor is true combined with some other things. But if so, sounding potentially very impressive for the 5D4 for stills! As far video it remains to be seen whether they deliver or cripple it. If they deliver there too....   .


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## rrcphoto (Apr 11, 2015)

Diltiazem said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



to be correct just before someone cries .. why has canon sat on it for FIVE years.. that patent took by the looks of it, 3 years+ to get approved and only approved in 2013.

canon also had a dual ramp ADC sensor patent, but that was not approved until January 2015.


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## Marsu42 (Apr 11, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> They didn't copy ML if this is real, simultaneous per photosite ISO read out and if all it is is the ML hack in firmware, that won't fly! That's totally fake and hits resolution.



It would be great if Canon would manage dual pixel readout, because this would allow even more than 15ev (ML has to have some overlap between iso values for interpolation). 

That being said, I encourage everyone to try the ML solution: It sounds hackish on paper and the workflow is a hassle, but you loose much less resolution in practice unless you shoot test charts and each white-black line is exactly one scanline on the sensor.

Alex has worked a lot on the interpolation algorithm since the first release, and personally I would have never that the results are as close to "vanilla" shots as they are. After a lot of experimentation and comparisons, I shoot much more confidently with dual_iso these days.


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## emko (Apr 11, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > They didn't copy ML if this is real, simultaneous per photosite ISO read out and if all it is is the ML hack in firmware, that won't fly! That's totally fake and hits resolution.
> ...



Wow really you use dual_iso? for what? everyone here says you only need 12 stops of DR or you are shooting with a lens cap on.

If this is true and has more DR then Sony sensors they will now say how weak the SONY sensor is.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 11, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How is Canon going to do 15 stops of DR with a 14bit CR2 file?
> 
> Note that it is quite possible that the 15 stops of DR for the C300 Mk II is via C-Log, which is different to CR2 raw files.
> 
> Will this mean a 16bit CR2 or a 16bit CR3?



It might not do 15 stops at 100% view, maybe just at 8MP normalization. The D810 even at ISO64 doesn't do 14.8 stops at 100% view either. If this can also do 15 stops at say 20MP then super wow. They'd obviously need to go to 16 bit files then and high-quality 16bit converters. Not sure if that will happen yet or if it will be quite that good. Whatever the case, if the rumor is true, it should at least be reasonably close to as good as Exmor and maybe it could even be the same or even better.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 11, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Diltiazem said:
> 
> 
> > They did. A 2010 Canon patent talks about combining high and low ISO signals from each pixels to increase DR. A refined version of the patent was granted in January this year.
> ...



They are not referring to read noise, they mean like DxO SNR middle gray tests, nothing changes there, where Canon is perfectly fine already, but the DR becomes much better since they fix the dark tone SNR.


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## LonelyBoy (Apr 11, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Canon has been worse about it over the last near decade or so.



Market leaders always are. Intel was king of it back in the day, and now is again. Every for-profit company will do it when they can afford to. If anyone doesn't, it's because they're desperate, or they like to not run the company well.


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## BeenThere (Apr 12, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > How is Canon going to do 15 stops of DR with a 14bit CR2 file?
> ...


Maybe two 14 bit converters for dual ADC output from sensor (one at base ISO and one amplified) combined off-board into a single 16 bit file. Overlapping bins could be averaged to reduce noise in mid-tones.


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## Orangutan (Apr 12, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Let me summarise the situation with said people:
> Any measurement or statistic where Canon has the better number or statistic is important (until Canon is behind) and vital and any measurement or statistic where Canon trails is unimportant (until Canon is in front.)



I don't think that's accurate. Any characteristic for which Canon is not "behind" far enough to overcome the many reasons to own a Canon system is somewhat important, but not vital. Any characteristic for which Canon is "ahead" is another good reason to own a Canon system.

As Neuro (and others) keep saying: it's a system not a sensor. Of course we'd all like to see a "better" sensor in the Canon system; however, until another system is sufficiently superior to justify the expense and hassle of change, we just use and enjoy what we have.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 12, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How is Canon going to do 15 stops of DR with a 14bit CR2 file?



They won't.


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## Marsu42 (Apr 12, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How is Canon going to do 15 stops of DR with a 14bit CR2 file?



A .cr2 is essentially a .tiff, so afaik no problem storing 16 bits there w/o any further changes. Magic Lantern chose .dng as their dual_iso format because it's a documented standard, but their output is 16bit already.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 12, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > How is Canon going to do 15 stops of DR with a 14bit CR2 file?
> ...


That's what .CR3 is for...  Sorry a bit late for April 1st jokes


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## PureClassA (Apr 13, 2015)

Well get ready for the BlackMagic URSA Mini at $2995 tomorrow. 4k, Native EF mount, ProRes & RAW video recording. 15 stops of DR with their brand new sensor (also set to be employed in the regular URSA) ... and $2995... $2995. Canon better put out one helluva 5DC model sometime soon


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## K-amps (Apr 13, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Well get ready for the BlackMagic URSA Mini at $2995 tomorrow. 4k, Native EF mount, ProRes & RAW video recording. 15 stops of DR with their brand new sensor (also set to be employed in the regular URSA) ... and $2995... $2995. Canon better put out one helluva 5DC model sometime soon



Since when has a reasonable price point by a competitor, or a compelling piece of technology; deterred Canon from matching them? 

When is the last time Canon took our breath away with a new DSLR? 

Don't get me wrong, Canon has been great in giving us reliable Bodies that do not fail at giving us rapid firing & accurately focused shots of 22bit color and 11.8ev's of DR... and it's been getting better and faster in capturing those files with each new model..... I wished that when they announced the 5ds with a different CFA, that instead of high ISO brilliance, we would get more DR since it would benefit Landscape shooters, but they still had the conservatism to shove that 500nm work of art in our faces for 6 years and running...

Work fast Maeda Work fast... we hope the 5d4 will give us something to cheer about, and wont be a slight rework of the 5d3 sensor, which has fallen behind the competition in a few areas.... and from what they claim, the yet unreleased 5ds has the same DR of the 3 years old 5d3.... I really hope that's not true.


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## PureClassA (Apr 13, 2015)

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini


Good freakin Lord...... It's a monster for $2995


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## gsealy (Apr 13, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini
> 
> 
> Good freakin Lord...... It's a monster for $2995



Looking for reviews of this one.


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## PureClassA (Apr 13, 2015)

Pre-Orders aren't even up yet. I'm sure every reviewer on earth will be itching to get their hands on this thing. 60FPS in full 4K RAW?! 150FPS in 1080P RAW?!?! DAMN!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 13, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini
> 
> 
> Good freakin Lord...... It's a monster for $2995



Now that is some exciting stuff!!!! Just shows what happens when a company actually tries to do the best that they can manage instead of trying to do their best to hold back as much as possible and still sell just enough to not create issues. (Although the 15 stop version is a much more expensive $5000, it's not $2995 for the 15 stops video. However, compared to the Cxx stuff, $5000 is still awfully inexpensive to say the least! Maybe this won't quite deliver the same results, but $5000 is getting to be affordable for some, $20,000 is kinda out there for the average person not making films as a primary living. And note all the tons of usability features and connections and so on even in the $2995 model. It makes a joke of all the fanboys who were going on about how could anyone expect such connections and features for less than $20,000! Of course they were not correct, they have no idea what parts and coding costs are and tend to wildly inflate things in their mind.)

The Canon model that this one really makes look bad is the new XC10. it only costs 20% less but it has miles more features it appears.

XC10:
$2499
4k 30P
1" sensor
slow, fixed lens

URSA mini:
$2999
4k 60p
150fps HD RAW
has an APS-C size sensor
takes Canon EF lenses
looks to have more pro connectors
looks to have more features

(although it is true that you do need to add another $300 or so to the URSA price to give it a lens since it comes with no lens, so for someone with no Canon gear the entry price is more than 20% higher, for someone already with Canon lenses though....)
(and the XC10 is more compact and all-in-one)


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 13, 2015)

Although back to the topic of the thread, if this rumor is true, that also is very exciting stuff as far as upcoming Canon sensors though too. For stills, at least, maybe they are finally going to get really exciting again.

(The way they have been handling video though it seems like they are basically relegated though.)


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## PureClassA (Apr 13, 2015)

Yes, stand corrected. Ok a RAW recording machine with that sensor...but still $4995?? a 1080p C100 MK II for $500 more whose ONLY advantage is really DPAF is a really tough sell now.


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## PureClassA (Apr 13, 2015)

I think all this new stuff is really forcing Canon's hand. As well it should. There is no excuse NOT to put this sensor technology in a 5D4 and without question a 1DX2. It's long overdue, but the more I look at it the more it seems perhaps fully dependent on DPAF. Shame it wasn't on the 5DSR. I could see the landscape guys bypassing the 5DSR for the higher IQ sensor in a lower resolution 5D4. Ouch Canon. 



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Although back to the topic of the thread, if this rumor is true, that also is very exciting stuff as far as upcoming Canon sensors though too. For stills, at least, maybe they are finally going to get really exciting again.
> 
> (The way they have been handling video though it seems like they are basically relegated though.)


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## unfocused (Apr 13, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini
> 
> 
> Good freakin Lord...... It's a monster for $2995



Judging by the website, I'm not good looking enough to buy this camera.


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## PureClassA (Apr 13, 2015)

http://www.teradek.com/pages/nab#.VSwHxzHF89S

Canon is Live on the broadcast right now


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## PureClassA (Apr 13, 2015)

There was brief but interesting exchange (I wish I could rewind it cuz I missed half of it) about using 12 and 14 bit encoding while still yielding 15+ stops of DR. I imagine whatever answer the Canon tech gave also applies to the BlackMagic rigs as well


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 13, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> There was brief but interesting exchange (I wish I could rewind it cuz I missed half of it) about using 12 and 14 bit encoding while still yielding 15+ stops of DR. I imagine whatever answer the Canon tech gave also applies to the BlackMagic rigs as well



That sounds like slog2 type packing of some sort, you do lose a bit of tonality of course as 15 doesn't fit into 12 and 14 but you can keep the 15 stops shadow to highlight range, just there is slight tone compression loss along the way so it would still have posterization of 12 bits and not 15bit performance in that regard.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 13, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> the more I look at it the more it seems perhaps fully dependent on DPAF. Shame it wasn't on the 5DSR.



I'm not so sure. I doubt they're reading the whole sensor twice from half of each pixel. Granted I'm not an expert, but that would seem to cut FWC in half, and at best get you back to square one when the readouts are merged.

Even if it's a DPAF platform, I imagine they still sum the two diodes to read out total pixel charge, and have the circuitry in place to send it down parallel signal chains of varying gain.

It's likely very processor heavy. Doing it with 50MP might mean something like 2 FPS in the 5DS/R configuration.

Perhaps we'll see a 5D4 at mid-range resolution (22+/-) and a 1DXSR (because why not?) at high resolution (50), but doing dual readout RAW HDR blends, and both with framerates similar to the 5DS/R.


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## drjlo (Apr 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Just shows what happens when a company actually tries to do the best that they can manage instead of trying to do their best to hold back as much as possible and still sell just enough to not create issues.
> 
> XC10:
> $2499
> ...



A little embarrassing for Canon I would think..


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## Policar (Apr 14, 2015)

drjlo said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Just shows what happens when a company actually tries to do the best that they can manage instead of trying to do their best to hold back as much as possible and still sell just enough to not create issues.
> ...



Historically these cameras have been very impressive until you have to use them.

The specs are incredible though. If you're after specs rather than ergonomics and image quality it will deliver. Can't say what else it will deliver.


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## PureClassA (Apr 14, 2015)

http://www.canonwatch.com/cw4-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-coming-as-2-versions-5d-mark-iv-mark-ivc-28mp-vs-18mp/

Well..... There ya go. 5D4. 5DC. They're a comin'. 5DC looking to perhaps have the DR specs of the new C300 mkIi

Let the CR sh!t hit the fan in 3...2...1....


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

Policar said:


> drjlo said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



True, but the ergonomics look quite promising this time and considering that the early XC10 samples looked pretty poor..... maybe it still won't quite match C300 II, but 5k is doable for some avg joes and 20k pretty darn few unless serious film-making is their primary game (and 3k even more for many, of course now giving up those nice 3 stops of DR though).


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## M_S (Apr 14, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> http://www.canonwatch.com/cw4-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-coming-as-2-versions-5d-mark-iv-mark-ivc-28mp-vs-18mp/
> 
> Well..... There ya go. 5D4. 5DC. They're a comin'. 5DC looking to perhaps have the DR specs of the new C300 mkIi
> 
> Let the CR sh!t hit the fan in 3...2...1....



Yep. That looks like not what I was expecting it to be. At all.


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## PureClassA (Apr 14, 2015)

Good or bad? 



M_S said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.canonwatch.com/cw4-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-coming-as-2-versions-5d-mark-iv-mark-ivc-28mp-vs-18mp/
> ...


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

Oh wow it's a CW4 too so it might well be for real.

Also, it's not clear that the 28MP 5D4 won't have the high DR, maybe it would. If so. then you'd have one heck of a stills body. 28MP, exmor DR, 12fps FF, nice AF, wow. Sounds nicer than the D810, close enough MP count and way more fps and perhaps similar sensor performance. If not, then it kinda bleh IMO, although for those who don't care about DR it would be like getting a super 1DX, in many ways, for a 5D3 price which would surely excite some.

And a super fine stills/video combo body (sure the MP count is a shame, but you can't always have your cake and eat it too, it's a reasonable tech limit at this point, it's just hard to as yet manage 28MP and truly top video quality and if they don't cripple the video at all then that would be some exciting camera to own).

So wow, those could be two VERY exciting cameras. The 5D4c for sure (again barring marketing doesn't hold back some critical usability feature or have them bungle the output quality) and the 5D4 too if it has the new sensor. 

It's a little surprising they didn;t find a way to do a on-chip binned decent if not perfect 4k on the 5D but whatever, maybe too much heat or something.

anyway, perhaps the first news pointing to some really exciting new stuff again for once
a lot of potential promise here


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## M_S (Apr 14, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Good or bad?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I expected it to be in one single body, not two. Was all excited over this and thought "they could have done it right this time". This is of course still a rumour, but if there is any truth to this, then I will look at other options.


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## expatinasia (Apr 14, 2015)

My first reaction is wow, if the 5D Mark IV is going to have 12 FPS what on earth is the 1DX2 going to have!!

I hope they do not split the 1DX2 into two different cameras, would be nice to have everything in one body.


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## PureClassA (Apr 14, 2015)

I think the days of the split 1 bodies are done. 1dX2 and 1DC2 doesnt make sense anymore with a dedicated 5 body for cinema unless they intend it to fit between the mkII C100 and C300 bodies... But that doesnt really make a lot of sense either. It almost feels like Canon is throwing a lot of spaghetti against the kitchen wall to see what sticks. Apart from the flurry of new camera bodies, now it seems all these bodies are going to be even more frustrating to buy thanks to such disparity with the sensors. As of now, it looks as if the new video cameras have this great new sensor tech with 15 stops of DR .... But the new still cameras like the 5DSR that's supposed to be for amazing lanscapes... Does NOT!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

Of course another reading of it, why the higher MP stuff has no option for more DR is that maybe they found a way to just barely fit the dual-gain circuitry into 18MP sized FF photosites on 500nm fab but can't fit the circuits onto photosites the size as on 7D2,5Ds,5D4? That would a bit unfortunate, since you'd be locked at 18MP max FF and closer to 6MP max APS-C then for high DR. But who knows, just wild speculation.


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## PureClassA (Apr 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Of course another reading of it, why the higher MP stuff has no option for more DR is that maybe they found a way to just barely fit the dual-gain circuitry into 18MP sized FF photosites on 500nm fab but can't fit the circuits onto photosites the size as on 7D2,5Ds,5D4? That would a bit unfortunate, since you'd be locked at 18MP max FF and closer to 6MP max APS-C then for high DR. But who knows, just wild speculation.



That is actually a really astute observation and seems rather plausible, although I'm not a micro-electronics expert when it comes to the limitation of sensor design.

Obviously they are still running the 500nm fabs if nothing else to produce cinema sensors, which I guess is fine considering 4k is only 8MP or so. And I also assume it was likely cheaper to tool those older fabs up for the new ADC system rather than the newer fabs that make smaller pixels we are seeing now. Good call.


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## LonelyBoy (Apr 14, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



So even if Canon's DR solves your complaint you'll have something more to complain about? I'm shocked.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 15, 2015)

A curious thought:

OK so say reading dual-gain takes 2x the processing so they can do 18MP dual at 12fps or 28-32MP at 12fps old style. First, is 6fps that bad if could mean getting a touch better than Exmor DR? The 12fps and less DR could've been left for 1DX2.

Second, you say OK what about the top quality video? They can just barely read 4k off the 18MP chip using full reads without melting or needing too much processing power. Fair enough. BUT who said they have to produce FF video? By far most movies and video has been shot at Super35/APS-C type sizes so why not give it a 28-32MP sensor and then just read a small APS-C center portion out of it for the top quality full read video?

I could be wrong, but might more people be most excited by:
28-32MP with 15 stops DR
6fps
APS-C top flight 4k video and top video features

than:
18MP with 15 stops DR
12 fps
FF top flight 4k video and top video features
(this is still exciting, but certainly not qute as impressive for landscape and wildlife stills as the first option)

or:
28MP with same old 2007 level DR
12 fps 
average video
(especially since they could make a 1DX2 still for speed for those who really want the 12fps?)

or they could make my top one and the bottom 5D4 instead of the middle 5D4c and bottom 5D4?

Is it marketing not wanting to deliver more than one or two items well in any given body nonsense?
They think people would like the middle option more than my first one?
They are using 500nm and can only just barely fit dual gain circuits at 18MP FF scale and simply couldn't make dual gain read at any higher resolution?
Something else?

Of course the rumor might be pure BS and then all this is whatever.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 16, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> I think the days of the split 1 bodies are done. 1dX2 and 1DC2 doesnt make sense anymore with a dedicated 5 body for cinema unless they intend it to fit between the mkII C100 and C300 bodies... But that doesnt really make a lot of sense either. It almost feels like Canon is throwing a lot of spaghetti against the kitchen wall to see what sticks. Apart from the flurry of new camera bodies, now it seems all these bodies are going to be even more frustrating to buy thanks to such disparity with the sensors. As of now, it looks as if the new video cameras have this great new sensor tech with 15 stops of DR .... But the new still cameras like the 5DSR that's supposed to be for amazing lanscapes... Does NOT!


“You don't know the power of the dark side.” - Darth Vader


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## Jose (Apr 18, 2015)

I'm afraid that sensorwise the 5DIV is going to be just a 5DIII with 28 mpx. I don't care for 12fps for me 6 is more than enough, I don't care for 4k video (although i won't complain). What I need is a 5D body with a sensor that can record scenes with a wide dynamic range.
For me it will be unforgivable that canon, having finally the technology to make a 5DIV with more mpx more DR and better autofocus, will make us wait for the 5DV to get it, but that is exactly what they are going to do.


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## PureClassA (Apr 18, 2015)

Yup, just rumors as usual.... but we're reacting to them just as we always do ;D


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## LOALTD (Apr 20, 2015)

dilbert said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > LOALTD said:
> ...




Oooh, I get it now


----------

