# Should we tell them?



## Valvebounce (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi Folks.
I was in France for the D Day commemorations and went to several ceremonies and events, I couldn't help myself, I found myself explaining to people that if they turn to the P setting they wouldn't have to keep pushing the pop up flash back down when taking pictures of things well outside the range of the on board flash and that they could take control of the flash with the release button on the front of the body! Should I have done it, the people did seem to be grateful for the input, a couple even asked for more advice, I recommended coming here rather than trust me! ;D
Should we tell them or just leave them be if they don't ask?

Cheers Graham.


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## mnovaksan (Jun 26, 2014)

I've found that seldom people are grateful for unsolicited advise like this. The only time I give advice is when someone is taking of a picture that I'm in.

Sounds self centered, but that's been my experience over the last 50 years of photo taking.

I find that afterwards comparing photos with the ones they have taken leads them to ask questions. That has been a better path.


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## distant.star (Jun 26, 2014)

.
Ask and you shall receive.

I'm not in the unsolicited advice business -- the ROI is exceedingly low. However, if someone asks, I'll give them all the information and advice they're willing to take. Last time that happened I ended up doing an impromptu photography 101 class. A guy at an event came over to me, said he was new and asked me to explain dial modes, etc. Eventually, five or six folks had gathered round to listen and ask questions.

One guy even stayed after class and asked a lot of equipment questions!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 26, 2014)

Most people don't understand why or what I'm talking about, and my wife does not like it.


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## DRR (Jun 26, 2014)

Don't bother. If they cared enough to learn they probably would have sought the answer themselves. Giving people unsolicited advice generally ends with both upset.


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## sagittariansrock (Jun 26, 2014)

It's good exercise for the finger to keep pushing the flash down. Maybe they'll get tired of it and upgrade to (a Canon) full frame.


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## jdramirez (Jun 26, 2014)

P... ich. At least give them a rudimentary understanding of Av.


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## Lurker (Jun 26, 2014)

I don't offer advice unless it's clear that someone is struggling and frustrated. 
Like when my dial clicks over and all the sudden the flash is popping up all the time. I slam it down it pops back up, again and again and again until I start cussing. Then please point out that my dial may have accidentally turned.

I'm also more receptive to advice if asked if I'm having the problem you think I"m having. Then give me an out, tell me a lot of your students have issues with that feature/setup. Egos are fragile things.


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## Zv (Jun 26, 2014)

People are so sensitive and get upset easily these days over nothing so I tend to leave them alone unless they are directly affecting me in some way. 

However, if someone asked me for advice I'd gladly give it. In fact I got asked often enough about the basics that I wrote several blog articles and now I just direct them to it! 

If someone came over and offered me "advice" or told me that I was doing something "the wrong way" I'd listen but secretly be a bit annoyed! I hate people pointing out my errors, unless they are way more experienced than me and are offering sage advice.


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## Jim Saunders (Jun 26, 2014)

There was a lady at a concert sitting behind me with a PowerShot, blazing away with the flash because she had no idea about turning it off; I didn't make enough of a connection to pass on the idea that she'd get better photos and fewer irate glares if she'd turn it off, but that's what you get for trying to have a conversation in the middle of a concert.

If someone is out minding their own business taking lousy photos, the power to them. I have all the time for questions but I'm not going to go around bugging people about it.

Jim


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## Grumbaki (Jun 26, 2014)

As long as their useless flash isn't appearing on my pictures, I leave the ignorant be. Otherwise it's 70-200 2.8 IS clubbing time.


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## Viggo (Jun 26, 2014)

I think this is very different with different countries. I can't imagine anyone in Norway being mad for some advice as long as it's polite and constructive. And it's almost the other way around here, since I carry a 1d, people see a big camera and think it must have some knowledge and come up to me and ask for advice, which I'm happy to give. Reminds me of me when I first started and had all those light bulbs going off over my head.

I don't forget there was a time where I didn't know what APS film was and had no idea that a zoom-lens and a telephoto lens wasn't the same thing.


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## Maximilian (Jun 26, 2014)

Jim Saunders said:


> If someone is out minding their own business taking lousy photos, the power to them. I have all the time for questions but I'm not going to go around bugging people about it.


I second that, Jim.

Someone must realize the lack of knowledge or the need of advice. Or just curiosity.
Otherwise you are just an unwelcome person.

I really love to share the knowledge I have, if someone is willing to learn.
But I do not want to be taken for a smarta**.


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## Valvebounce (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi JD.
I did think about that but I wanted to carry on taking my own pics and thought any thing past P might take too long! 

Hi DRR.
They did appear to be frustrated by the situation and 2 of them did speak to me separately after the photo op was over, one freely admitted that he just got the camera and asked about more of the modes, which I tried to explain, the other was interested in a flash that would reach, both we're given info on the forum and may even be reading this! 

Hi Jim, Maximilian.
I did not wish to be taken for a smartar**. And to some extent it was for personal gain to stop the continual click clack of the flash. I did attempt to be tactful, polite and I think it was constructive info I gave.

Cheers Graham.



jdramirez said:


> P... ich. At least give them a rudimentary understanding of Av.





DRR said:


> Don't bother. If they cared enough to learn they probably would have sought the answer themselves. Giving people unsolicited advice generally ends with both upset.





Maximilian said:


> Jim Saunders said:
> 
> 
> > If someone is out minding their own business taking lousy photos, the power to them. I have all the time for questions but I'm not going to go around bugging people about it.
> ...


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## Maximilian (Jun 26, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi JD.
> I did think about that but I wanted to carry on taking my own pics and thought any thing past P might take too long!
> 
> Hi DRR.
> ...


Hi Graham! 

Maybe my post was not pointing directly towards your question and therefore I could have done it better. Sorry for that. I'll try to make it better now.

My answer was a try of a general approach - let's say to your headline question.
I would call myself a social person and therefore I want to help people in need when I see it.
If somebody seems to struggle with his/her equipment and if I think I could help, I would of course politely ask if help was needed and welcome. 
So probably I would have done it similar to you. 
But this really depends on the specific situation and how I see it. And I would try to be polite and cautious.
If someone seems to feel good in a situation, where he's using bad technique I would stay away.


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## Lightmaster (Jun 26, 2014)

it´s like advising people on the intermet...you may teach 20 but there are millions of other noobs.

some may have nothing else to do (i often think that when i see people spend hours and hours on internet forums)... but my time is to precious.


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## cid (Jun 26, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> It's good exercise for the finger to keep pushing the flash down. Maybe they'll get tired of it and upgrade to (a Canon) full frame.



That's the reason I upgraded to 5D mk III ;D no no no, just joking ... 



DRR said:


> Don't bother. If they cared enough to learn they probably would have sought the answer themselves. Giving people unsolicited advice generally ends with both upset.



Sad thing is lot of people think that

expensive DSLR + even more expensive lens = high quality photos

Last weekend happend to me I was chosen by my boss to make some photos from company action. He handed me his 600D + 24-105L, which I think is quite nice combination (well, I was impressed he does not have set lens, but L glass). First of all I had to switch mode to something more meaningfull than Auto, compensate exposure a little bit and set ISO.

What were the results?
[list type=decimal]
[*]I have no idea if he will be able to use his camera ever again (due to chenged settings) ;D
[*]He acclaimed photos were really nice
[/list]

*Did he ask why? No*


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## fragilesi (Jun 26, 2014)

Only a few weeks ago at the Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol I missed an important opportunity to give advice to someone who had a 5d3 twinned with the 70-200mm 2.8 II lens.

The advice I should have given him was "I wouldn't leave your lens there while you change to your wider angle lens".

It was all I could do not to leap off the bridge after it when his wife knocked it off with her handbag. In fact if I hadn't been so busy rubbing my jaw after it hit the ground I suspect I would have done!

So, next time you're a hundred or two feet up on a suspension bridge and someone leaves their lens on the ledge take my advice. Get a boat and a large net, you never know . . . ;D


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## Zv (Jun 26, 2014)

fragilesi said:


> Only a few weeks ago at the Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol I missed an important opportunity to give advice to someone who had a 5d3 twinned with the 70-200mm 2.8 II lens.
> 
> The advice I should have given him was "I wouldn't leave your lens there while you change to your wider angle lens".
> 
> ...



I wonder if he's still married. Or did he throw her off the bridge too? ;D


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## Besisika (Jun 26, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> Jim Saunders said:
> 
> 
> > If someone is out minding their own business taking lousy photos, the power to them. I have all the time for questions but I'm not going to go around bugging people about it.
> ...


+1
Or a show off


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## Joe M (Jun 26, 2014)

I never offer unsolicited advice. If asked, I'll tell you what you want to know. The only time I'll offer advice is to friends and family that I know well and that I know will take it as advice and not criticism.


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## fragilesi (Jun 26, 2014)

Zv said:


> I wonder if he's still married. Or did he throw her off the bridge too? ;D



Well, there was a long debate over whose fault it was . . .

Her View:- His fault for leaving it there.
His view:- Her fault for "swinging that stupid bag around without looking"

My view:- I agreed with both of them ;D

I would add that something should be done in law to protect such fine pieces of glass from being sent to homes like that! Surely there should be some kind of vetting process before you're allowed to buy one!


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## jdramirez (Jun 26, 2014)

Joe M said:


> I never offer unsolicited advice. If asked, I'll tell you what you want to know. The only time I'll offer advice is to friends and family that I know well and that I know will take it as advice and not criticism.



If we are playing golf and someone offers me some swing advice.... they might get a punch to the face. But with photography... offering advice regarding esthetics is probably a no no, but hey, some fill flash here would do wonders for your subject since the background is a sunset... 

Some people don't know... but if they do know and want to produce crap... then by all means.


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## JonAustin (Jun 26, 2014)

I have a friend (a Nikon shooter) whose equipment far exceeds his knowledge and shooting ability. He dreams about buying a 36mp body, but mounts crap telephoto zooms to his current camera, and wonders why his photos aren't sharp. His mode dial has never been moved from P (or whatever the Nikon equivalent is to Canon's Full Auto / Green Square / A+ mode).

He was taking photos of a group to which I was a party recently, seated at a table in a restaurant next to large windows with strong backlighting (bright sunlight). After he muttered that we were all in silhouette (and changing the exposure dial didn't help), I suggested he engage his pop-up flash (and then showed him how to do it).

He was grateful for the advice and appreciative of the fact that we were no longer in silhouette, but I'm convinced that he promptly forgot the lesson as soon as the meal was over.

I never volunteer help to strangers, but when they ask for advice -- as often as not -- their eyes begin to glaze over if the solution to their problem is more than a single setting change. Some just hand me their cameras, and ask me to take the shot for them!


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## jdramirez (Jun 26, 2014)

I buy and sell gear and I used to sell gear in an electronics shop. I would talk to people who had no clue all the time and I tried to explain depth of field 101. Usually that alone would lose me a sale, but I wanted them to have an understanding why you go from a point and shoot to an slr... I think they appreciated that I didn't go easy on them... but probably not.

When I sell my stuff now, I give them just as much information as they ask for and just a bit more. Not a ton... just enough... 



JonAustin said:


> I have a friend (a Nikon shooter) whose equipment far exceeds his knowledge and shooting ability. He dreams about buying a 36mp body, but mounts crap telephoto zooms to his current camera, and wonders why his photos aren't sharp. His mode dial has never been moved from P (or whatever the Nikon equivalent is to Canon's Full Auto / Green Square / A+ mode).
> 
> He was taking photos of a group to which I was a party recently, seated at a table in a restaurant next to large windows with strong backlighting (bright sunlight). After he muttered that we were all in silhouette (and changing the exposure dial didn't help), I suggested he engage his pop-up flash (and then showed him how to do it).
> 
> ...


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## John Strung (Jun 26, 2014)

A number of years ago, before electronic flash, I was on a flight landing at Toronto at night. There was a beautiful vista out the window of the city lights. 

The person in front of me promptly took out a point and shoot (film) camera, popped flash cube into it and took a shot out the window. This was so stupid on so many levels that I was left gaping.

Did this person not realize the flash would simply reflect back from the window? Did they really think their little flash cube was strong enough to light up the entire City of Toronto from 5,000 feet? And if it could, did they not realize that would spoil their photo because what they wanted to photograph was the lights, not the city?

Knee jerk reaction -- if it is dark, use flash!


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## 9VIII (Jun 26, 2014)

John Strung said:


> A number of years ago, before electronic flash, I was on a flight landing at Toronto at night. There was a beautiful vista out the window of the city lights.
> 
> The person in front of me promptly took out a point and shoot (film) camera, popped flash cube into it and took a shot out the window. This was so stupid on so many levels that I was left gaping.
> 
> ...



After reading that story I can't help but feel sorry for career photographers who went through the digital transition. With film, learning took lots of time and money, now, in the same circumstance as described above, you could take dozens of shots in five minutes with different settings on each. "Snap, look at picture, delete, fiddle with settings, snap..."

It really does take expertise out of the equation.


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## Skulker (Jun 26, 2014)

9VIII said:


> After reading that story I can't help but feel sorry for career photographers who went through the digital transition. With film, learning took lots of time and money, now, in the same circumstance as described above, you could take dozens of shots in five minutes with different settings on each. "Snap, look at picture, delete, fiddle with settings, snap..."
> 
> It really does take expertise out of the equation.



Or to look at it another way ... makes it much easier and cheaper to earn or learn that expertise.


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## jebrady03 (Jun 26, 2014)

I have no problem helping complete strangers. I see offering some unsolicited photography advice much the same as I see holding the door for someone, picking up something the dropped and bringing it to them, etc. You're just being polite. And I think as long as you do it in a nice way there shouldn't be any problems with practically anyone. Saying something like: "hey, that's a nice camera. I'm a bit of a tech geek, do you mind if I ask what model it is? **they answer** Oh cool! I've heard a lot of good things about that model - what do you think of it?" That right there will usually uncover frustration on their part. Then I'd say something like "if you're interested, I might know a way to help". If they say no then I'd respond with something like "yeah, like I said, I'm a tech geek so I don't like people touching my stuff either" then I'd smile and tell them to have a good day. If they take offense well... that's a reflection on them, not me. But more than likely, you're going to end up helping them.


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## dcm (Jun 26, 2014)

John Strung said:


> A number of years ago, before electronic flash, I was on a flight landing at Toronto at night. There was a beautiful vista out the window of the city lights.
> 
> The person in front of me promptly took out a point and shoot (film) camera, popped flash cube into it and took a shot out the window. This was so stupid on so many levels that I was left gaping.
> 
> ...



Not to date myself and I may be mistaken (it's been a long time) but I seem to remember that some film point and shoots changed their settings when a flash cube was attached, even one that had already been used. You could use this trick to increase exposure time.


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## The Mad Kiwi (Jun 27, 2014)

I offer people unsolicited advice all the time and have never had anything but positive feedback. Mostly I offer compositional advice or posing advice. If I see people taking a family photograph when I'm out, often I just take over and organise peoples family photo for them, tell everybody where and how to stand and how to frame a photo and take it for them. Most people are pretty happy when the get a professional family photograph for free. I suppose in the end peoples reaction will depend on the quality of the advice and how it's delivered.


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## Besisika (Jun 27, 2014)

The Mad Kiwi said:


> I suppose in the end peoples reaction will depend on the quality of the advice and how it's delivered.


Must be!
I have never had good luck with that. I guess, I need to work on my charm.
For now, I prefer being asked.


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## Valvebounce (Jun 27, 2014)

Hi jebrady.
I think when I offered advice, I started out with , 
"Hi I'm sorry to intrude, but I notice you seem to be battling with the camera for control of the flash? Would you like a little tip to give you the upper hand?"
It seemed to work, a little lighthearted humour seemed to work, of course the pop up flash is probably the easiest subject to tell they could use a tip! 
I'm glad to see that some of you would offer unsolicited advice, I know if I was struggling and someone offered me advice I would gladly accept, I doubt I would ask for fear of them being unappreciative of the interruption! 

Cheers Graham.



jebrady03 said:


> I have no problem helping complete strangers. I see offering some unsolicited photography advice much the same as I see holding the door for someone, picking up something the dropped and bringing it to them, etc. You're just being polite. And I think as long as you do it in a nice way there shouldn't be any problems with practically anyone. Saying something like: "hey, that's a nice camera. I'm a bit of a tech geek, do you mind if I ask what model it is? **they answer** Oh cool! I've heard a lot of good things about that model - what do you think of it?" That right there will usually uncover frustration on their part. Then I'd say something like "if you're interested, I might know a way to help". If they say no then I'd respond with something like "yeah, like I said, I'm a tech geek so I don't like people touching my stuff either" then I'd smile and tell them to have a good day. If they take offense well... that's a reflection on them, not me. But more than likely, you're going to end up helping them.


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## jebrady03 (Jun 27, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi jebrady.
> I think when I offered advice, I started out with ,
> "Hi I'm sorry to intrude, but I notice you seem to be battling with the camera for control of the flash? Would you like a little tip to give you the upper hand?"
> It seemed to work, a little lighthearted humour seemed to work, of course the pop up flash is probably the easiest subject to tell they could use a tip!
> ...



PERFECT! Social etiquette goes a long way!


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 30, 2014)

Joe M said:


> I never offer unsolicited advice. If asked, I'll tell you what you want to know. The only time I'll offer advice is to friends and family that I know well and that I know will take it as advice and not criticism.



That is my attitude too. It is not my job to educate people unless they ask to be educated. 

I think too many people worry too much what too many other people do. ;D


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## Menace (Jul 6, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Joe M said:
> 
> 
> > I never offer unsolicited advice. If asked, I'll tell you what you want to know. The only time I'll offer advice is to friends and family that I know well and that I know will take it as advice and not criticism.
> ...



Happy to help someone out BUT only if they ask - no time/intention to give unsolicited advice to strangers as I'd be very annoyed myself if someone came over to me and show me how to shoot properly.


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## Valvebounce (Jul 6, 2014)

Hi Menace. 
Do you wait to be asked to open the door for the person struggling to get through it, or do you step forwards when someone is having difficulties, burdened with shopping, to frail to overcome the self closing mechanism, disabled? 
I saw someone struggling with their camera, and stepped forwards, too far removed from the door analogy? 

Cheers Graham.
Ps I guess if you take time to answer help topics you probably hold the door! 



Menace said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Joe M said:
> ...


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## Menace (Jul 6, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Menace.
> Do you wait to be asked to open the door for the person struggling to get through it, or do you step forwards when someone is having difficulties, burdened with shopping, to frail to overcome the self closing mechanism, disabled?
> I saw someone struggling with their camera, and stepped forwards, too far removed from the door analogy?
> 
> ...



You be glad to know that I'll be first to help any old, infirm, pregnant, disabled person without a 2nd thought - however someone having an issue with their camera settings (a hobby) is not really the same. 

I'm a very friendly guy and love nothing better than talking cameras and lenses but my personal experiences have been mostly negative when I've offered to help someone out without being asked so now I wait until someone wants my assistance then I'm happy to help out.

I also do not like to come across as a 'know it all' - giving free advice willy nilly to strangers but always happy to help if asked.


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## Hannes (Jul 7, 2014)

The Mad Kiwi said:


> I offer people unsolicited advice all the time and have never had anything but positive feedback. Mostly I offer compositional advice or posing advice. If I see people taking a family photograph when I'm out, often I just take over and organise peoples family photo for them, tell everybody where and how to stand and how to frame a photo and take it for them. Most people are pretty happy when the get a professional family photograph for free. I suppose in the end peoples reaction will depend on the quality of the advice and how it's delivered.



I've found that people only hand me their camera if they've only briefly looked at mine. I think the outline of a 1 series makes everyone assume you are a pro but when they see just how battered it is they seem to think twice before handing me their gear. The cracked lens hood on the 70-200 which is superglued back together and then there are the big patches of missing paint on the hump of the prism where the camera has quickly been dropped on the ground and scraped a bit looks a bit tatty 

The only place I will give unsolicited advice is at the zoo when people are using flash in the bits where you shouldn't be. I don't mind if people are ruining their photos but at least they shouldn't scare the animals. 

Funnily enough the Olympic arena had led lights to simulate flashes in the stands, I never realised until I sat there.


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jul 7, 2014)

I am happy to offer advice but only if they seem to be struggling and I know what the solution is! I am always careful to make sure that I don't make them look like an idiot and also that I don't make myself look like one!


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## Dukinald (Jul 8, 2014)

Hannes said:


> I've found that people only hand me their camera if they've only briefly looked at mine.



This happened to me this past weekend. A young couple had asked me to take their photo and since they have a Nikon J1, I politely asked if it is ready to shoot? The guy replied that "with the gear you have, you know more than us and should be able to figure it out". I had the 6d with 24-105 at that time. Wasn't quite sure how to react but just asked them to pose and half pressed the shutter button. After I saw the camera was doing face detection, I proceeded to press the shutter button all the way. Took a couple of shots which I hope they liked. 

I guess I should take the comment as a compliment :

Back to topic. I would only give camera advice if solicited, specially to strangers. Some people's egos are just too fragile.


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## shumi31 (Jul 8, 2014)

DRR said:


> Don't bother. If they cared enough to learn they probably would have sought the answer themselves. Giving people unsolicited advice generally ends with both upset.



I am fully agree with you and I can say this from my own experience!


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## AcutancePhotography (Jul 8, 2014)

Hannes said:


> Funnily enough the Olympic arena had led lights to simulate flashes in the stands, I never realised until I sat there.



I am not sure I understand this. Could you explain this a bit more?


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