# Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?



## r4e (Mar 31, 2013)

Would 1DC sensor overheating be a problem with 1 hour of continuous 4K video? I participate in marine archealogy projects and plan to video scan entire wrecks with the limitation of 2x128 GB media, i.e. 1 hour per dive. The 1DC would be housed in a tight aluminium underwater housing with hardly any air circulation. But, the housing is cooled externally by 4-20 degrees Celsius water. 

Currently I do similar work with HD video and this is a very useful technique to explore unknown historical wrecks before further research. I have a 200W/16000 lumen HMI lamp, so exposure and motion blur will not be a problem.

I am asking this question due to the 1DC overclocking of the DIGIC processors and additional heat sink(s).


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## marvinhello (Mar 31, 2013)

r4e said:


> Would 1DC sensor overheating be a problem with 1 hour of continuous 4K video? I participate in marine archealogy projects and plan to video scan entire wrecks with the limitation of 2x128 GB media, i.e. 1 hour per dive. The 1DC would be housed in a tight aluminium underwater housing with hardly any air circulation. But, the housing is cooled externally by 4-20 degrees Celsius water.
> 
> Currently I do similar work with HD video and this is a very useful technique to explore unknown historical wrecks before further research. I have a 200W/16000 lumen HMI lamp, so exposure and motion blur will not be a problem.
> 
> I am asking this question due to the 1DC overclocking of the DIGIC processors and additional heat sink(s).



I don't think it's a problem at all as long as it's operating under recommended temperature range.

1D C was designed to continuously record up to 12 hours.


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## cinema-dslr (Mar 31, 2013)

I don't think you'll have a problem with the 1DC.
since you're only dealing with the builtup of internal heat a 1 hour shoot won't overheat the camera.

But it's always wise to test it out first before comiting to this solution.
So rent one and make a test dive.
Love to see the 4k results


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## Oupstd (Mar 31, 2013)

Hi, I do also dive, and I would be interested in knowing what 4k videos can bring you over normal HD video for exploration purpose...


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## r4e (Mar 31, 2013)

Thanks for all the answers sofar. Since there is nobody who rents a 1DC in Finland, I would appreciate any first hand or even rumoured experience of long continuous takes at 4K. My guess is that the higher data flow might increase internal processing and heat generation. 



Oupstd said:


> Hi, I do also dive, and I would be interested in knowing what 4k videos can bring you over normal HD video for exploration purpose...


The purpose is to map or video scan the wreck and then review the video with the team on surface. a) With 4K video you could swim slightly higher from the wreck and cover almost a 4x area during the same exploratory dive due to the additional resolution and possibility to zoom into the footage during play. Or, b) you could keep the same distance as with HD, but have more detailed footage for the same area. With improved quality, it is easier to notice anything of interest eventhough it might be hidden behind silt or flora. We use many hours reviewing the footage to make sure we are not missing anything. Since dive times and opportunities at the deeper wrecks is quite limited, we have to maximize the data we can collect from every dive. 

c) 4K video is also good enough to substitute a digital photograph for our purposes... although the museum personnel still keep requesting b/w film(!) for their archives. In practise, we make hand drawn paper sketches from the footage. A better, moving picture will give a better idea of the shape and curvature of items found.

Discovering even a small item, like a coin, might help to estimate the age of the wreck and perhaps identify it.


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## DanThePhotoMan (Apr 1, 2013)

I haven't done any research on the 1DC, but I would be extremely skeptical that it could record an hour straight of 4k footage. I know it's a completely different body style and the internals are probably much different, but the last time I used a RED Epic on a shoot we had a problem with them overheating after just 6 minutes of continuous shooting at 4k. The same thing with the Scarlet. That's a hell of a lot of information to be putting through the sensor for that amount of time, so If you could possibly pull off one hour of continuous shooting I would certainly be surprised.


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## r4e (Apr 1, 2013)

I created this topic after having read the 1DX (shared by 1DC) and 1DC Instruction Manuals:

*1DX* Instruction manual page 221: Live View Shootings Cautions: 
"*White and Red Internal Temperature Warning * 
- If the camera's internal temperature increases due to prolonged Live View shooting or a high ambient temperature, a white [temperature warning] icon will appear. If you continue shooting while this icon is displayed, the image quality may be degraded... 
- If the camera's internal temperature further increases while the white [temperature warning] icon is displayed, a red [temperature warning] icon will strat blinking. This blinking icon is a warning that the Live View shooting will soon end automatically...If this happens, you will not be able to shoot again until the camera's internal temperature decreases. Turn off the camera and let the camera rest a while... 
- If the camera's internal temperature is high, the image quality of high ISO speed images or long exposures may be degraded even before the white [temperature warning] icon is displayed."

*1DX* Instruction manual page 239: "An increase of the camera's internal temperature may cause movie shooting to stop before the maximum time shown on the preceding page." For the 1DX this limit is 29 minutes 59 sec. *This means that internal temperature might be a problem before 30 minutes.*

*1DX* Instruction manual page 247: "Movie Shooting Cautions: 
White and Red Internal Temperature Warning Icons" 
- similar warnings as earlier

*1DC* Instruction manual page 55: "Movie Shooting Cautions: 
White and Red Internal Temperature Warning Icons" 
- similar warnings as earlier


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## r4e (Apr 1, 2013)

marvinhello said:


> I don't think it's a problem at all as long as it's operating under recommended temperature range.
> 
> 1D C was designed to continuously record up to 12 hours.


Total Recording Time on CF media does not mean continuous recording time. 
Recording time of a single movie clip does indicate possible continuous recording time - but, it might be theoretical as well.

*1DC* Instruction manual page 37: "The maximum shooting time of one movie clip is 12 hours." 

Initially this sounds encouraging. However, you might have to compare this figure to media recording total times. Consequently, I think this would apply to 640 (VGA) movie resolution only.


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## r4e (Apr 1, 2013)

DanThePhotoMan said:


> I haven't done any research on the 1DC, but I would be extremely skeptical that it could record an hour straight of 4k footage. I know it's a completely different body style and the internals are probably much different, but the last time I used a *RED Epic * on a shoot we had a problem with them overheating after just *6 minutes  * of continuous shooting at 4k. The same thing with the *Scarlet*. That's a hell of a lot of information to be putting through the sensor for that amount of time, so If you could possibly pull off one hour of continuous shooting I would certainly be surprised.


Thanks Dan. For comparison this is very interesting. The RED cameras have much better cooling arrangements than the DSLR Canons. On the other hand, the underlying technology/circuit density might be a bit older and the RED focus definitely has been even higher data rates with raw data --> higher power consumption.


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## r4e (Apr 1, 2013)

Going further in my investigation, I am trying to discover the amount of heat generated:

*1DX* Instruction manual page 400: With a fully-charged Battery Pack LP-E4N, movie shooting time approx. 2 hr. 10 min. at 23 degrees Celsius. Notice that this does not say anything about continuous time. 
Battery Pack LP-E4N rated voltage 11.1 V DC, Battery capacity 2450 mAh --> 27,2 Wh  --> 1DX power dissipation during movie shooting: about *12,6W* on average.

*1DC* Instruction manual pages 28 and 84: "With a fully-charged Battery Pack LP-E4N, the total movie shooting time (with 4K shooting) will be as follows: approx. 1 hr. 25 min. at room temperature (23 degrees Celsius)". Notice that this does not say anything about continuous time. This also implies that 1DC power dissipation during movie shooting would be about *19,2W* on average. No wonder if a better heat sink is required on the 1DC.

The 1DC camera is weather proof and has no cooling vents like some of the C cameras have. Imagine a small plastic covered magnesium alloy box with a hot 20W light bulb in it. 

How long will it take before the internal temperature rises enough to shut down the camera?
Any experiences? Any rumours? Or any official wisdom?


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## eyeland (Apr 1, 2013)

Would have been a clever move to connect the internal heatsink to a metal baseplate or at least the tripod thread so one could device external cooling solutions for mounting?
Anyways, interesting stuff, would love to hear of real life experiences


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## charlesqian (Apr 12, 2013)

r4e said:


> Would 1DC sensor overheating be a problem with 1 hour of continuous 4K video? I participate in marine archealogy projects and plan to video scan entire wrecks with the limitation of 2x128 GB media, i.e. 1 hour per dive. The 1DC would be housed in a tight aluminium underwater housing with hardly any air circulation. But, the housing is cooled externally by 4-20 degrees Celsius water.
> 
> Currently I do similar work with HD video and this is a very useful technique to explore unknown historical wrecks before further research. I have a 200W/16000 lumen HMI lamp, so exposure and motion blur will not be a problem.
> 
> I am asking this question due to the 1DC overclocking of the DIGIC processors and additional heat sink(s).



Based on my experience with 1DC at 4K mode, it will heat up around 30 minutes but I finished filming the 128GB CF card, which is a little over 30 minutes of clips despite the white warning icon. But most of the tme, people don't shoot that long before they stop the camera.


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## r4e (Apr 16, 2013)

charlesqian said:


> Based on my experience with 1DC at 4K mode, it will heat up around 30 minutes but I finished filming the 128GB CF card, which is a little over 30 minutes of clips despite the white warning icon.


Thanks charlesqian, that was very useful information. Do you shoot indoors (with air-conditioning) or outdoors? Ambient temperature?


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## Halfrack (Apr 16, 2013)

Given what you're shooting and the environment you're shooting in, I might consider the new Blackmagic 4k option as well. July isn't that soon, but you get LANC for camera control.

How far down are you diving?


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## r4e (Apr 18, 2013)

Halfrack said:


> Given what you're shooting and the environment you're shooting in, I might consider the new Blackmagic 4k option as well. July isn't that soon, but you get LANC for camera control.
> 
> How far down are you diving?


The big question is the delivery time for 1) BM 4k and 2) a compatible underwater housing with suitable depth rating. I need minimum 60m/200 ft depth rating, but preferably 100m/330 ft. The same applies to the external monitor and possible external recorder as well.

The Canon 1DC total price with u/w housing etc will be around 20k as compared to the possible BM option with a total price of maybe half, if and when available. The Canon is available now (delivery time 1-2 weeks for everything) and the video picture quality seems good enough:
1DC Demo Reel - Macro on Vimeo


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## charlesqian (Apr 18, 2013)

r4e said:


> charlesqian said:
> 
> 
> > Based on my experience with 1DC at 4K mode, it will heat up around 30 minutes but I finished filming the 128GB CF card, which is a little over 30 minutes of clips despite the white warning icon.
> ...



The instance I mentioned above was indoors, recording a high school theater play, and the ambient temperature should be around 60F. I don't think it turned on the AC that night in the theater.

I have since then also shot something outdoors but did not shoot continuously. Honestly, I did not test how long it would take to get the camera automatically shut down because of the heat via continuous recording. It seems to get that white warning sign pretty easily and the camera gets warm noticeably but I have never seen the red warning sign yet. I normally shoot intermittently with any camera to re-compose or change angles etc.. 

But the one thing I'd like to mention is its Super 35mm mode which produces outstanding images and eats up less memory.


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## r4e (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks Charlesqian for your additional information.

I just noticed a comment on Vimeo by a Swiss 1DC user: "Now, Canon won't deliver any 1DCs in Europe currently. When pressed, my Canon contact here said the new 25p firmware needs a hardware modification/upgrade. That would mean that already delivered cameras will have to go back. But there isn't anything official out on this yet."

This definitely makes me to postpone my decision, and, July is getting closer...


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## Axilrod (Apr 19, 2013)

I'd factor in the waterproof enclosure, it seems like the camera would get really hot in there after an hour. It may be fine shooting in a normal situation for that long, but I'd be hesitant to shoot that long underwater.


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## charlesqian (Apr 19, 2013)

r4e said:


> Thanks Charlesqian for your additional information.
> 
> I just noticed a comment on Vimeo by a Swiss 1DC user: "Now, Canon won't deliver any 1DCs in Europe currently. When pressed, my Canon contact here said the new 25p firmware needs a hardware modification/upgrade. That would mean that already delivered cameras will have to go back. But there isn't anything official out on this yet."
> 
> This definitely makes me to postpone my decision, and, July is getting closer...



So you live in Europe and have to use the 25P?


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## marvinhello (Apr 19, 2013)

r4e said:


> Thanks Charlesqian for your additional information.
> 
> I just noticed a comment on Vimeo by a Swiss 1DC user: "Now, Canon won't deliver any 1DCs in Europe currently. When pressed, my Canon contact here said the new 25p firmware needs a hardware modification/upgrade. That would mean that already delivered cameras will have to go back. But there isn't anything official out on this yet."
> 
> This definitely makes me to postpone my decision, and, July is getting closer...



That's weird, many european sellers are selling 1D C as normal, if it does require a massive product recall then Canon should have informed the dealers.


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## charlesqian (Apr 19, 2013)

marvinhello said:


> r4e said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Charlesqian for your additional information.
> ...



I agree. To change or make modifications on 1DC's hardware would be highly unlikely; I think from the very start, Canon already had the plan to do the 25P, so technically they should have already known it's feasible. Glitches on software are possible.


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## marvinhello (Apr 19, 2013)

charlesqian said:


> marvinhello said:
> 
> 
> > r4e said:
> ...



Just found out CVP UK has listed 1D C as out of stock, I will call them on Monday to check if it's about the 25p issue.


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## cookinghusband (May 9, 2013)

I purchased my 1DC in mid march and have done over 3Tb of video since,

Just sharing my observation in my couple month of using it. Since day one I had the over heat indicator lid up once. It was 20degC indoor, occur near 25-30 min of recording, during this occurance I had been hand helding the 1DC on the right side all the time with it mounted on the monopod. As soon as I took out the CF card it disappear. From than on I never held the 1DC fully/fulltime on the right side grip, overheat never occur again even if I have film contiously during a live concert. Seem like heat problem is with the CF writing not the CMOS. In my past experience with other camera is alway the heat of memory during writing of the files cause the temperature problem.

In your case, if your Ti casing is in contact with the camera to dissipate the heat to the cold water. I do not see 1 hour usage is any problem. 

PS.
For 4K24 video the 1DC can only record 32mins(128GF CF) each time you press the button, it cannot record across 2 CF card, U need to stop and start a new recording when the card is full.
Also it only work with the 1000x UDMA7 card.


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## eyeland (May 9, 2013)

What is getting hot, the CF card or the controller or both?
I recall friends using heatsinks on overclocked RAM, I wonder if one could modify a CF card for conductivity (or compel a company to do so)
After the announcement of the BMC 4K, the chance of me using the 1D C professionally has decreased alot, and overheating is an issue that I need to consider as we plan to shoot in full sun in Africa and other sauna-like conditions. Would be cool if someone with a 1D C (and good hands) would try modding a CF card and/or the CF card-door.
EDIT: I wonder if these would perform better?
http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1007


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## cookinghusband (May 9, 2013)

eyeland said:


> What is getting hot, the CF card or the controller or both?
> I recall friends using heatsinks on overclocked RAM, I wonder if one could modify a CF card for conductivity (or compel a company to do so)
> After the announcement of the BMC 4K, the chance of me using the 1D C professionally has decreased alot, and overheating is an issue that I need to consider as we plan to shoot in full sun in Africa and other sauna-like conditions. Would be cool if someone with a 1D C (and good hands) would try modding a CF card and/or the CF card-door.
> EDIT: I wonder if these would perform better?
> http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1007


if you want some heat sink on the CF, the space available inside the compartment is minimal. I need to wait till summer to see how bad it get. May be is my cheap transcend causing the problem? I had tried sticking a gel ice pack ( that thing they put on your head during fever)on the outside when using the Minota 7D in the past and it works. 

Actually I had use my 1DC once at about 25degC outdoor for about 50GB and then 40GB is totally fine.

PS from my memory I did not remember other part of the 1DC heating up, so I guess the heat is from the CF.


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## marvinhello (May 9, 2013)

eyeland said:


> What is getting hot, the CF card or the controller or both?
> I recall friends using heatsinks on overclocked RAM, I wonder if one could modify a CF card for conductivity (or compel a company to do so)
> After the announcement of the BMC 4K, the chance of me using the 1D C professionally has decreased alot, and overheating is an issue that I need to consider as we plan to shoot in full sun in Africa and other sauna-like conditions. Would be cool if someone with a 1D C (and good hands) would try modding a CF card and/or the CF card-door.
> EDIT: I wonder if these would perform better?
> ...


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## docholliday (May 9, 2013)

r4e said:


> Going further in my investigation, I am trying to discover the amount of heat generated:
> 
> *1DX* Instruction manual page 400: With a fully-charged Battery Pack LP-E4N, movie shooting time approx. 2 hr. 10 min. at 23 degrees Celsius. Notice that this does not say anything about continuous time.
> Battery Pack LP-E4N rated voltage 11.1 V DC, Battery capacity 2450 mAh --> 27,2 Wh  --> 1DX power dissipation during movie shooting: about *12,6W* on average.
> ...



That calculation doesn't mean that the unit will produce 12.6 WATTS of heat. That just means that the CONSUMPTION of the camera. Heat is wasted power during consumption. If the circuit is efficient, it will produce very little heat. Since most processors nowadays have some sort of internal throttling/stepping, which can allow the cores to slow down a bit and remain cool during period of lower usage, thus reducing heat generation, it is fairly hard to calculate what the actual heat generated would be. Not sure if the Digics throttle, but the cooling for processor would (should) have a sink capable of handling that heat. It probably dissipates into the chassis if it sinked (sealed, meaning no airflow). Still, if the system is efficient, the heat produced would be less than calculated.

The sensor, on the other hand, can generate much heat during operation, and since heat=noise, is sinked heavily. That is probably also sinked into the chassis. Maybe removing the rubber grips and using a heat absorbing/transmitting gel against the body to transfer heat to the dive case would get that heat away from the camera. The case should be metal if you want it to transfer to the water. If it is polycarb or another plastic, it would not transfer well. If that is the case, maybe modifying the case with a few passthrough ports and a heatsink outside (in the water) to pass some fluids/alcohol around the gel to transfer heat (like a secondary cooling loop in a nuclear reactor) would get that heat out.

You might be able to rig something using the liquid cooling system for a computer. There are copper dies that attach to processors for running the ethylene glycol through. You might be able to stick some of those to the camera body (without the rubber grips) and pass them through a dive case to some cooling fins/radiator outside. Using the passthrough ports would keep the case watertight and still let the cooling solution circulate effectively transferring the heat to the water (which should be cooler than the camera and air inside the dive case).


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## Don Haines (May 9, 2013)

The best thing I can think of is cooling through the tripod mount.... Perhaps you can fasten a heatsink to the top of your tripod and mount the camera, with some heat-conductive gel, to the top of the heatsink. Since the tripod mount is part of the metal case of the camera, this seems like the best way to bleed of the heat.... now the question is how to get the heat from the heatsink and out of the housing..... could you use conductive gel from the side of the heatsink to the dive housing?

Just thinking.... never tried any of this and have no idea how well it would work...


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## cookinghusband (May 12, 2013)

docholliday said:


> r4e said:
> 
> 
> > Going further in my investigation, I am trying to discover the amount of heat generated:
> ...



Actually the battery lasted me 4 128gb cards and the battery is still not quit empty I guess 2.5 hours is possible on 1 battery. According to my past experience if the 1DC is on tripod without a hot hand holding it shall be ok, 

Just wondering what brand CF card Charles was using, I am using the Transcend.

Also remember to include the CF card and usb3.0 card reader and computer and fast HDD in your budget, it take me about 3hr to backup the CF if using usb2.0


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## r4e (May 12, 2013)

Thanks for the many answers all of you have provided!


docholliday said:


> That calculation doesn't mean that the unit will produce 12.6 WATTS of heat. That just means that the CONSUMPTION of the camera. Heat is wasted power during consumption.


Unlike motors and flashlights that convert part of the consumed energy into other forms of energy (than heat), computers and cameras convert all the consumed energy into heat. Hopefully some useful bits of information is processed during the power consumption/heat generation...

Since my main usage will be shooting continuous video, in 5-30 minute clips, but, shot continuously, the heat generation and possible overheating is a real concern for me. One of the replies indicates that more heat is generated close to the handle and the CF cards. I might consider removing the CF compartment cover. In theory a very small external fan (but inside the housing) could be positioned to cool the CF cards, but, the space inside the prefabricated aluminium dive housing is extremely limited. 

There have been several encouraging messages from current (land based) 1DC users that overheating *might* not be an issue after all. I have also noticed an increasing number of 1DC videos on vimeo - this is an indication of a growing user base, and there already seems to be more videos made by 1DC than 1DIV (my current camera).


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## cookinghusband (May 13, 2013)

r4e said:


> Thanks for the many answers all of you have provided!
> 
> 
> docholliday said:
> ...


As I have mentioned before , if you are using a metal dive casing you can use direct contact instead of fan for heat dissipation. 
PS you cannot take photo during live view in 4k mode, you can configure the shutter release to turn on/off recording video+AF if you do not have enough button on the dive casing


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## marvinhello (May 18, 2013)

Time for an update!

The reason why Canon still hasn't publicly announce the 25p firmware for 1D C is that they found a serious defect in the initial release (version 1.1.9 in early May), their official word is "image tearing can sometimes occur during recording". So they stopped updating cameras with this version and delayed the announcement to end-of-May (as of writing). Currently they are still working on revised version and further delay could be possible.

1D C owners, please be patient


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