# OMG....you always get smited for offering your opinion!



## 00Q (Mar 11, 2012)

Right, so....Ive discovered that I have been smited like hell....in the same way mosquitos sting you if you walk out into the forest at night. ...

I guess the people who smite me are those who feel insulted because I have not recommended their lenses or bodies in my replies to other people's posts. People smite you because they can't stand their lenses being "unrecommended". Most of the time, thats the only lenses they have and they take it too personally....also I've found that some people can't stand it when others says something negative about Canon. 

On this site, by giving your opinion = smite  

so.....since I have 120+ smites and only 30+ thumbs up, I cant careless about my reputation, so people go on smite me! Your lenses can be shit. Canon can sometimes be shit. And your camera bodies are probably need an upgrade.


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## picturesbyme (Mar 11, 2012)

I only posted photos and offered help in the beginning yet I already have more - than + ;D
So somehow I offended some highly intelligent creature's feelings...
This whole karma stuff is pointless and very childish, CR should take it off but since it is entertaining to some I doubt that they will... 
Maybe CR guy will order us to stand in the corner after collecting x neg.s 
Still I wouldn't worry about it... I certainly won't lose sleep over it....


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## Terry Rogers (Mar 11, 2012)

I wouldn't take it too seriously. 

Obvious troll is obvious.


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## 87vr6 (Mar 11, 2012)

It's like this on every online forum, everywhere... Heaven forbid you tell your honest opinion about something... Now you're a d*ck! People are too soft these days.


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## distant.star (Mar 11, 2012)

Interesting. A couple of posts about this today, at least that I've seen.

My guess is things have quieted down a lot since the 5D3 announce, and there's not much to really talk about.

However, these posts did get me thinking there could be a plot against the applaud/smite nonsense. I guess if enough people handed out "smites" every chance they had, it would cause more dissatisfaction with that system, perhaps generate noisy opposition.

As a disclaimer, that's simply something that crossed my mind. I have no knowledge of such a thing going on, and I'm not advocating for such a thing. Just thinking out loud and wondering.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 11, 2012)

distant.star said:


> However, these posts did get me thinking there could be a plot against the applaud/smite nonsense.



Now I understand my smites ... It's an extremist plot by the "7d Gestapo" and "full-frame KGB" to get rid of democracy  ! Well, to be honest I know at least where part of my smites came from, it's just as being always said: voicing an opinion will get you smitten because people confuse it with the "disagree" button.


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## 00Q (Mar 11, 2012)

I came back after sleep to check my smites...I only got 2 more smites....

Where are these wossies who smite me all the time???

Where are these noobs who knows nothing about photography and go on this forum and talk about their 18-55 kit lens and 18-135 kit lens and smite me when I say that their lenses are not good enough for good photography???

Where are the noobs who upgrades their bodies from the 450D to the 500D to the 550D to the 600D to the 50D and to the 60D and to the 7D???? Where are you when you smited me when I told you that theres no point in going from the 450D to the 500D and just go straight to FF??? 

Where are these noob wossies? where are your smites? SMITE ME!! I dont give a flying f*u*c*k* about your smites. HAHAHA you are always a noob that spends £££ and recommends the 18-135 kit lens on this forum!!!!!!


and where are your smites?


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## KeithR (Mar 11, 2012)

00Q said:


> I dont give a flying f*u*c*k* about your smites.


Errmmm...

Just for the sake of clarity, you obviously _do_.

But yes, this is just another demonstration of the infantile pointlessness of "Karma".


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## marekjoz (Mar 11, 2012)

You also might get some smites for something like this:



00Q said:


> I'm fed up of reading this forum today and hearing people complaining about the 5DIII pricing. Did you ever think it was going to sell for less than $2500? The prices will be lower when it hits the high street stores when it first comes out. But most importantly,
> 
> 1) Do you NEED a 5DIII?
> 
> ...



And it's not what you refer to as being smitten for


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## KeithR (Mar 11, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> You also might get some smites for something like this:
> <snip>



I actually agreed completely with the sentiment behind that post, but its content was an absolute guarantee of bad Karma.


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## noodles (Mar 11, 2012)

00Q said:


> On this site, by giving your opinion = smite



On this site you even get a smite when asking very polite for advice in your first post!

I believe some are so disturbed about getting a smite, they just smite everyone that posted in that thread.

O, wait ! Noodles has 0 smites. Let's smite him


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## P_R (Mar 11, 2012)

Hi. Completely agree. I offered my thoughts on camera bags based on my experiences and I think from that I received some negative karma. Same happened with some of my other responses. Thing is, my responses were not critical, sarcastic or offensive. I did not even mention the 7D!

So the whole smite aspect is meaningless when used in such ways. Its abuse renders it of no value, yet it can affect the perception of ones account. Unfortunately I deleted my account out of disgust - a poor move on my part. So I've recreated my account and I'll see how it goes now.


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## jwong (Mar 11, 2012)

P_R said:


> Thing is, my responses were not critical, sarcastic or offensive. I did not even mention the 7D!
> 
> So the whole smite aspect is meaningless when used in such ways. Its abuse renders it of no value, yet it can affect the perception of ones account. Unfortunately I deleted my account out of disgust - a poor move on my part. So I've recreated my account and I'll see how it goes now.



+1 for hoping you stay in the forum. Don't be discouraged. Just keep in mind that the forum population is not representative of the general public. Most people are happy enough with the camera gear they have; those in the forum tend to be avid hobbyists and pros. Open ended questions about gear selection will naturally tend to the most expensive options when budgets are not given. That said, there are people who are very helpful and give good advice. They don't have to spend their time helping others in the forum, but they do.


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## bycostello (Mar 11, 2012)

i'd not let it get you down... too many anoracks worrying about meaningless technicalities than going and taking great images...


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## D_Rochat (Mar 11, 2012)

The OP shows up as a guest now so they must have deleted their account. I'm sure this is what CR envisioned with implementing the karma system........


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## TexPhoto (Mar 11, 2012)

You can't be overly sensitive about that stuff. One person can smite you very 2 hours indefinitely on the same post. So there is no winning. And of course you can make 2+ accounts and applaud your self as well.

I'd love to see the ratio of smites to applause given by a person...


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## Admin US West (Mar 11, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> The OP shows up as a guest now so they must have deleted their account. I'm sure this is what CR envisioned with implementing the karma system........



CR did not delete him, I rather ebjoyed his posts. I checked the log, he deleted his account)

Bans get issued for spammers, and for making unacceptable comments about other members. If a member has been making reasonable posts, I usually just remove a post that is out of bounds, but I also issue warnings, 10 day bans, and complete bans.

Right now, we have had more trolls than usual that apparently just signed up to make stupid comments, they might be banned immediately. This sometimes quickly spreads to a flame war. Don't respond to a stupid post by calling the poster names, I know its hard, but I can cause things to get out of control quickly, thats why lots of deleted threads and posts happen.


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## marekjoz (Mar 11, 2012)

scalesusa said:


> D_Rochat said:
> 
> 
> > The OP shows up as a guest now so they must have deleted their account. I'm sure this is what CR envisioned with implementing the karma system........
> ...



@scaleusa - as we're talking about karma here, what's the reason you've got so much negative karma? You're not offensive, etc. If admins collect it so much, then maybe there's something wrong with it from start?


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## Marsu42 (Mar 11, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> @scaleusa - as we're talking about karma here, what's the reason you've got so much negative karma? You're not offensive, etc. If admins collect it so much, then maybe there's something wrong with it from start?



How about a new poll, but this time with constructive alternatives like replacing the negative karma system with a) a simple, positive system that cannot be confused with "agree" or "disagree" and/or b) a real rating system for individual posts that shows who agreed/disagreed?


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## Admin US West (Mar 11, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> @scaleusa - as we're talking about karma here, what's the reason you've got so much negative karma? You're not offensive, etc. If admins collect it so much, then maybe there's something wrong with it from start?



As administrator, I've had to do some unpopular things, like giving warnings, bans, etc. Undoubtedly some of those start giving smites whenever they can. It comes with the territory.

Unfortunately, the Karma system is not very flexible, and modifying it requires third party software which might make us venurable to hacking, or just plain be incompatible. So, its all or nothing.


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## Jamesy (Mar 11, 2012)

scalesusa said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > @scaleusa - as we're talking about karma here, what's the reason you've got so much negative karma? You're not offensive, etc. If admins collect it so much, then maybe there's something wrong with it from start?
> ...


My vote would be nothing - it detracts from conversations about Canon gear. Let's face it, 99% of the people on here are loyal Canonites. Let's get on with posting about Canon related stuff and leave the school yard antics behind us.


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## marekjoz (Mar 11, 2012)

scalesusa said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > @scaleusa - as we're talking about karma here, what's the reason you've got so much negative karma? You're not offensive, etc. If admins collect it so much, then maybe there's something wrong with it from start?
> ...



I understand, thanks for clarifying.


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## nitsujwalker (Mar 11, 2012)

Yes... I'm new to this forum and haven't been rude and am -2 for Karma  Oh well... Offer your opinion in a civilized manner and if people Smite you, so be it! haha Anyways, I love reading everyones opinions here and enjoy talking about gear and rumors. Have a great Sunday everyone!


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## marekjoz (Mar 11, 2012)

nitsujwalker said:


> Yes... I'm new to this forum and haven't been rude and am -2 for Karma  Oh well... Offer your opinion in a civilized manner and if people Smite you, so be it! haha Anyways, I love reading everyones opinions here and enjoy talking about gear and rumors. Have a great Sunday everyone!



Come on, not everyone smites you


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 11, 2012)

nitsujwalker said:


> Yes... I'm new to this forum and haven't been rude and am -2 for Karma  Oh well... Offer your opinion in a civilized manner and if people Smite you, so be it! haha Anyways, I love reading everyones opinions here and enjoy talking about gear and rumors. Have a great Sunday everyone!



I looked at your posts, and I saw nothing even remotely asking for a smite. Too bad that we have a kiddie paying with daddy's computer, or even worse, he has a computer of his own.

I gave you a + to help even it up! Hope the others do as well.


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## marekjoz (Mar 11, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> nitsujwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Yes... I'm new to this forum and haven't been rude and am -2 for Karma  Oh well... Offer your opinion in a civilized manner and if people Smite you, so be it! haha Anyways, I love reading everyones opinions here and enjoy talking about gear and rumors. Have a great Sunday everyone!
> ...



+6 for @nitsujwalker in 10 minutes - it can be new positive karma record


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## RC (Mar 11, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> scalesusa said:
> 
> 
> > marekjoz said:
> ...



+1


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 11, 2012)

My vote would be nothing - it detracts from conversations about Canon gear. Let's face it, 99% of the people on here are loyal Canonites. Let's get on with posting about Canon related stuff and leave the school yard antics behind us.
[/quote]
+1
[/quote]
+1

Shame we can't keep positive Karma and ditch negative.


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## dbduchene (Mar 11, 2012)

Yea I just got smited for saying that the 7D is not a dressed up Rebel and that I have never had a problem with my 7D using my EF 85 F1.2 and sigma 50 F1.4. So I am a bad person I guess because my gear works. As someone has said if you do not agree with someone else than you will be smited. I have been on a lot of forums over the years and have left all but one of them. The one that I staid on is owned my a couple and they have a simple rule. It is our sand box and NO ONE says anything that is against or aimed at another person. You can have YOUR opinions as that. I will probably not be sticking around here as the short time that I have almost ever thread ends up with someone being attacked personally. Yea I know a lot say that it is just part of the internet. Well it is part of it because it is so Anonymous and just deal with it. 

For what it is worth the rattings have been abused and have added nothing to any site that I have participated in. I have addmined for a few and we found that it is a lot better to just disable them. In every case that we have the site was more civil. Maybe the owners here will think of trying this to.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 11, 2012)

scalesusa said:


> D_Rochat said:
> 
> 
> > The OP shows up as a guest now so they must have deleted their account. I'm sure this is what CR envisioned with implementing the karma system........
> ...



I wasn't implying that you banned him, rather he left because of the Karma system.

*EDIT* I just realized it was the "they must have deleted....." that made you think that. I used they as a gender neutral term and not they as in CR.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 12, 2012)

I think there's been alot of smiting going on lately I seem to have jumped quite a few over the weekend
I didnt even post much because i spent most of it building my studio.

People shuldn't let gettind a smite or 20 bother them, I've said before if the worst thing in your life is getting smitted by some anonomous user on a web forum then you have a pretty great life so be thankfull for it and laugh off the smites. 

Just give your opionions information and advice just dont get abusive and let your behaviour fall to troll level or be drawn into idiotic arguments with trolls as they will beat you everytime with experience

the 5D3 vs D800 has definately caused a stir anyway!


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## Admin US West (Mar 12, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> I wasn't implying that you banned him, rather he left because of the Karma system.
> 
> *EDIT* I just realized it was the "they must have deleted....." that made you think that. I used they as a gender neutral term and not they as in CR.



Your post was clear enough, I just mis-read it. In any event, we did not delete him.

I wish we could only have positives, it just is not a option. We can have a total, or positive and negative, or none.

The total would be the net, so if a person had 10+ and 11-, the net would be -1. It would not stop abuse. The ultimate decisions rests with Craig, He did a 10 day poll, but only a few responded. I suspect (but do not know) that he feels the system has overall helped to keep things under control.


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## unfocused (Mar 12, 2012)

We've been through this discussion several times on several threads. 

This is a forum for people to entertain themselves, share information and share opinions. Many people on this forum may not remember what it was like before the current system was put into place. Like too many other sites, it was positively brutal, with a handful of bullies making drive-by comments that were not only insulting, but often had more than a little tinge of racism, sexism and name-calling, often using derogatory terms for persons with disabilities. 

Since the current system has been in place, the number of these incidents has dropped significantly. Sure, there are still some jerks on the forum who take delight in denigrating other people's viewpoints. But, as internet forums go, it is one of the more civil ones out there. 

I'm not saying that the Karma system is the sole reason, or even the main reason. But I don't think it is purely a coincidence. I believe the fact that everyone can see a participant's total score does encourage civility.

If some discomfort with the Karma system is the price we pay to keep the forum generally constructive, while allowing vigorous debate, it is well worth the price in my opinion.

As I've said in previous discussions, the Karma system is a bit like a public opinion poll. And, like any poll, it isn't valid with a small sample size. If your total applauds and smites aren't well over 100, I wouldn't worry the least about the numbers. I would say, though, that if after a year on the forum, you've collected 150 smites and 20 applauds, you might want to look over your posts. 

There are no doubt a handful of people who are incapable of accepting other peoples' opinions and they probably go on smiting attacks every once and awhile. Unfortunately, a few participants on the forum have been victimized by some targeted, personal smiting attacks. That's wrong and my sympathy to those who have suffered these attacks. On the other hand, I think some of these victims know that they are just being targeted by an individual or two and take it in stride, recognizing that as attacks go, these are fairy innocuous. 

Most of the participants on the forum use the Karma system constructively, as a passive way of signalling that a person's demeanor could use an adjustment. 

I've never had any problem issuing a smite to someone who is rude to others, posts drive-by attacks or otherwise engages in trollish behavior. It is a handy way of saying I disapprove without engaging in a long, frustrating, fruitless dialogue with persons whose mothers never taught them any manners.


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## Pyrenees (Mar 12, 2012)

scalesusa said:


> I wish we could only have positives, it just is not a option. We can have a total, or positive and negative, or none.



I personally don't give a rat's proverbial about smites/karma. What concerns me is the prospect that this system is stopping some/many people from truly speaking their minds. We want to delve as deep as possible into the topics raised, don't we? Then again, I'm looking at it from a photography enthusiast's point of view rather than from a business/SEO perspective.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 12, 2012)

Pyrenees said:


> scalesusa said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we could only have positives, it just is not a option. We can have a total, or positive and negative, or none.
> ...



put it this way.
If you speak your mind but put forward a civil and decent post then sure you will probably get some smite from some purile people but there is no way to know who it is and it will only be a few. however if you put the same argument forward with name calling and abusive language then ALOT more members will smite you. I am sure there are people that smite just becasue they disagree. so getting smites is just par for the course really.
Fear of being smited should not stop you stating a point of veiw in a civil manner more often than not you will get applauds than smites, I quite often applaud posts i dont agree with just because it was a well presented argument, and i'm sure others do too.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 12, 2012)

unfocused said:


> As I've said in previous discussions, the Karma system is a bit like a public opinion poll.



But for a public opinion poll, it would be helpful if everybody would know about. That isn't the case, esp. newbies never heard about it and consequently don't applaud if someone helps them. Furthermore, there is no "take back the smite" button if you misunderstood a post, I'm sorry to say that happened to me both ways. 

I cannot dispute that forum got more civilized with the karma system since I'm not around that long, but you don't know what you don't see: How many newer, potentially helpful people left because they felt unwelcome? You might argue that worrying about karma is juvenile and these people rightly left, but somehow other forums I participate in seem to work quite nicely without it because if someone flames or trolls, they get a accountable, verbal reaction instead of an anonymous click. 

I didn't participate in the older karma poll, but +1 for dropping it. On the other hand, if my negative karma gets more than double of the positive I'm happy, too, because I'll write less forum posts (trying to be helpful, esp. presenting cheaper alternatives to "get the best gear" for people on a budget) and go out and shoot more


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## Pyrenees (Mar 12, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> put it this way.
> If you speak your mind but put forward a civil and decent post then sure you will probably get some smite from some purile people but there is no way to know who it is and it will only be a few. however if you put the same argument forward with name calling and abusive language then ALOT more members will smite you. I am sure there are people that smite just because they disagree. so getting smites is just par for the course really.
> Fear of being smited should not stop you stating a point of veiw in a civil manner more often than not you will get applauds than smites, I quite often applaud posts i dont agree with just because it was a well presented argument, and i'm sure others do too.



Wikid, I largely agree with your post above and with the way that you believe people should use the Karma system.

I repeat, smites don't bother _me_,personally, one little bit. However, I fear that in a not-so-insignificant amount of cases, it limits the extent of debate (even if people aren't aware of that on a conscious level). You get a feel for that with some of the restrained responses on hot topics.

I am not privy to business/operational information on this site. There need to be some checks in place, and the moderators can only do so much moderating. I can envisage that the "total karma" system would be less likely to limit (useful) debate when compared to the status quo.


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## Ellen Schmidtee (Mar 12, 2012)

I think there are two problems with the karma system in this forum:

1. The karma is counted per user, rather than per post.

2. It is an easier (and more attractive to those who wish to remain anonymous) to respond than have an intelligent discussion.

I think it is a given some contributors would rather leave than develop a thicker skin, and therefore it would be best to either improve the karma system or turn it off.


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## picturesbyme (Mar 12, 2012)

scalesusa said:


> I suspect (but do not know) that he feels the system has overall helped to keep things under control.



Riiiight.... it's working soo well.... Now I have -12 : I feel much more controlled... 
Obviously half came after I said it is childish -which is true- but what wrong have I done before?

Does this encouraging a user to post/offer help to ppl more?


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## marekjoz (Mar 12, 2012)

picturesbyme said:


> scalesusa said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect (but do not know) that he feels the system has overall helped to keep things under control.
> ...




I've reviewed your posts, and wow man! You really deserved for a lot bad karma...
1. You have far too nice photos published here. Bang!
2. You're not supposed to make these pictures with 60D. Models not with FF? Bang Bang
3. You have access to many beautiful women and you boast about it. Bang
4. You have much too nice backpack. Bang
5. Your nick shows you adore more photos than gear. Bang

I'm surprised I didn't smite you yet...
LOL


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## wickidwombat (Mar 12, 2012)

picturesbyme said:


> scalesusa said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect (but do not know) that he feels the system has overall helped to keep things under control.
> ...



i gave you an applaud to try make you feel better if that helps seriously once the scars build up you barely feel the newer smites as they build up 

I guess new users get taken aback by it and for everyone it is frustrating not knowing which particular post earned you the smite. I think its good the smites follow the user

There definately are people that smite when they disagree
dont let it get you down you post constructive and good information not to mention some really nice pictures in the gallery section.

cheer up


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## Leadfingers (Mar 17, 2012)

The OP is generally correct.. Photographers in general have a reputation for being snarky know-it-all's.. this forum is no different.


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## peederj (Mar 17, 2012)

Cooperation theory indicates that you should start out being nice to people, and then, utterly consistently and automatically, treat them precisely as they treat you.

When people realize they cannot gain any advantage in a manner other than productive cooperation, not by chance or force, they will capitulate and coexist peacefully.

So the math says.


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## helpful (Mar 17, 2012)

00Q said:


> Right, so....Ive discovered that I have been smited like hell....in the same way mosquitos sting you if you walk out into the forest at night. ...
> 
> I guess the people who smite me are those who feel insulted because I have not recommended their lenses or bodies in my replies to other people's posts. People smite you because they can't stand their lenses being "unrecommended". Most of the time, thats the only lenses they have and they take it too personally....also I've found that some people can't stand it when others says something negative about Canon.
> 
> ...



You are so right. I joined this forum a few weeks ago as a retired photography instructor, with the beautiful idea of helping others for free with any and all photography questions--hence, my chosen name "helpful."

But as soon as I had started posting some images to use as examples of depth of field, white balance, etc., I started collecting an negative karma out of no where. I decided to devote my time to people who might actually want it. I deleted nearly all my posts, and all my images--why share my work at site and get smites when the same photos have won me photo of the year awards and publication in the Tribune, etc.

I am still willing to help anyone who actually wants it. Don't hesitate to ask me anything about photography.

Now watch my smites add up!


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## P_R (Mar 17, 2012)

Hello helpful, I hope you stay on. I will be looking for your images. 

It is unfortunate that some members prefer to smite than enter into a rational, civil and polite discussion about a point they may disagree on. In a forum like this, members can gain knowledge about photography from people like yourself who may have experiences they don't.

I would much prefer that someone articulate their disagreement than to respond with a meaningless smite. Or even better, respond with their thoughts AND a photograph which highlights their point (where applicable). This is a photographic forum after all. There is however nothing to learn from a smite (which no doubt will earn me some).

Now back to editing some shots I took in Germany...


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## Joellll (Mar 17, 2012)

Let's be happy we have both applaud and smite, the people over facebook have been desperately trying to get a dislike button while we already have one.

Stay positive mates. Being smited online has nothing to do with Canon gear and terrific photos. Which is why I never give smites.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 17, 2012)

Joellll said:


> Let's be happy we have both applaud and smite, the people over facebook have been desperately trying to get a dislike button while we already have one.
> 
> Stay positive mates. Being smited online has nothing to do with Canon gear and terrific photos. Which is why I never give smites.



I see where you're going, but the Facebook crowd wants a dislike button so when someone updates their status as "I'm sick and in bed all day ", everyone can give a sympathetic dislike for their misfortune. Here it's used as a weapon (and I use that term loosely...). Here you get smited for liking a piece of equipment, not liking a piece of equipment, posting pictures, talking about the gear you have, stating an opinion (pleasant or not), stating fact (pleasant or not), being a new guy and asking a simple question, agreeing or disagreeing with another poster and on and on.

Are smites the end of the world? No. I have sh*tty karma and I'm not going anywhere. But there is significant proof that it bothers some people and people have left the forum, like the OP of this very thread. It's beyond me why CR keeps a pointless system that scares off people from visiting their website. 

I think CR should open up another poll when the next big release happens. That way they'll get more traffic and voters. It should have been done while we were all waiting for the 5D mk III.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 17, 2012)

helpful said:


> 00Q said:
> 
> 
> > Right, so....Ive discovered that I have been smited like hell....in the same way mosquitos sting you if you walk out into the forest at night. ...
> ...



don't worry matey 

I'm celebrating my 100th smite today ! I try to help out as much as possible other who are very helpful round here have a boatload of smites too, its just par for the course


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