# Safe to buy a 7D2?



## Ruined (Apr 6, 2015)

I've noticed a lot of complaints of AI Servo AF issues on this camera since launch, and those that sent to Canon needed to often have their shutter and mirror box replaced in numerous cases. It seems to be a common repair thread.

Anyone think there was a hardware design defect with the original batch of cameras? I wonder if it is safe to buy now...


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## takesome1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Since Canon hasn't stopped honoring their warranty I would say it is safe.

Design defect? Probably not.

There are many that say they have a good copy.


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## Ruined (Apr 6, 2015)

I guess safe is not the best word.

Perhaps likelihood of not having to send a new camera to Canon out of the box to repair.


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## takesome1 (Apr 6, 2015)

I sent mine in, I see more posts from happy 7D II's than unhappy ones and I have been following the complaints because I wasn't happy with the way mine performed.

Sending one in is annoying but for the most part painless.


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## mackguyver (Apr 6, 2015)

Nice title - but you'll have to ask Dustin Hoffman's character from _Marathon Man_ - IS IT SAFE???:


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## sanj (Apr 6, 2015)

Mackguyver: This is great reply. Hahahahaha.

Ruined: You playing with us right?


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## monkey44 (Apr 6, 2015)

One of my favorite movies, and two of my favorite actors !! Don't like my dentist much tho'...


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## Ruined (Apr 6, 2015)

sanj said:


> Mackguyver: This is great reply. Hahahahaha.
> 
> Ruined: You playing with us right?



NO I am not playing with you!  Seriously.

It seems not infrequent where there will be some bizarre hardware defect on new model cameras that is not disclosed until a year later. Like the 5D3 light leak issue, for instance.

All I am saying is that there seems to be quite a few people having AI Servo AF issues with the initial run of cameras, and those that sent it in for repair to Canon - a lot got the mirror box/shutter replaced. 

Obviously would be covered by warranty but would be easier to just buy one that works 

I guess this is a question I will not be able to get an answer to unless I worked for Canon so probably not the smartest one to ask!


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## Mitch.Conner (Apr 6, 2015)

I am also interested in the answer to this question.


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## slclick (Apr 6, 2015)

You buy from a reputable and authorized dealer. 
You thoroughly test it out in all modes.
You keep it or return it within 30 days. 

Easy. It's just a 'thing'. Since you know what the issues may be, you have a head start here. Do it.


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## Ruined (Apr 7, 2015)

slclick said:


> You buy from a reputable and authorized dealer.
> You thoroughly test it out in all modes.
> You keep it or return it within 30 days.
> 
> Easy. It's just a 'thing'. Since you know what the issues may be, you have a head start here. Do it.



Well, so this is a good place to start.

Is the 7D2 "fail" case complete and utter inability to AF? Because it seems from reports I've seen it can be that bad, but I've also seen reports where it is "off" but not completely inaccurate. (i.e. like the FroKnowsPhoto review). The latter case may be more difficult to test for.


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## sanj (Apr 7, 2015)

Ruined said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Mackguyver: This is great reply. Hahahahaha.
> ...



Ok.  I was under the impression that people were complaining about the AF because they did not know how to use it. Canon has been improving AF so could not imagine issues.


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## Ruined (Apr 7, 2015)

sanj said:


> Ok.  I was under the impression that people were complaining about the AF because they did not know how to use it. Canon has been improving AF so could not imagine issues.



You would think, but it appears the 70D launch went smoother than the 7D2 launch did. Here, dpreview, fredmiranda, there are plenty of examples of people who could not get tack sharp photos (and sometimes autofocus was just utter failure) on 7D2, but it appears a trend that Canon has been replacing hardware in a large percentage of these cases when sent in for repair, specifically mirrorbox + shutter.

I originally thought it was a firmware issue but as more and more reports come in of camera going to service, it appears the same repair is given and it 100% fixes the problem.

To me, that means either:
A) An average/tiny amount of 7D2 cameras went out defective and all those owners just decided to post about it
B) A larger than usual, but still small amount of 7D2 cameras went out defective and all those owners just decided to post about it
C) A large amount of 7D2 cameras went out defective but a large amount of owners did not detect the issue yet, as it appears to vary in severity and only generally happens in AI Servo mode.

It just seems odd the larger than usual amount of reports for exactly the same issue, and when they go to service it is exactly the same repair in most cases. Smells a bit fishy, that's all. It seems Canon doesn't fess up for a year or so until the stock is moved, I assume so that they hope people with less-than-ideal stock don't notice. Another example of this was the 24-70 II models with the very noisy zoom barrel, it took teeth-pulling for Canon to admit there was a problem, but they issued a silent fix months before they publically stated anything.


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## Dylan777 (Apr 7, 2015)

Ruined said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > You buy from a reputable and authorized dealer.
> ...



I understand your concern. 

Current 7d2 AF system is more advance than any other semi-pro bodies in the past. I'm not suprise some reports could caused by user errors. It took me 6 months to understand and learn *how to fine tune *  my 1Dx AF system. Once I figured out the sensitivity and how each settings respond to real world movements...I'm now completely have control over my 1Dx. Don't just pick pre-set cases in camera and start shooting...fine tune it


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## pwp (Apr 7, 2015)

When it comes to some kinds of purchases, the smart money seems to wait a few months after the initial launch of a new product whether that be a camera body, a car or phone. I've talked my over enthusiastic brother to hold off a little while on the iWatch...preferably until the 2nd generation! 

And so it might be with the 7DII. Is there any evidence that the current builds are more stable than the initial run? FWIW the most reliable piece of photographic hardware I have ever had is a 1D MkIIn which I bought on run-out when the dreaded 1D MkIII first shipped. Now that was an AF disaster! The 1D MkIIn would have been one of the last builds and was so rock solid over it's 750,000 actuations lifespan it's almost ridiculous. I got the MkIIn because of the damning early reports on the MkIII. I'm not saying wait till end-of-model-life, but a short wait is often worthwhile. I'll probably pick up a 7DII in the next month or so.

-pw


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## sanj (Apr 7, 2015)

I stand educated.


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## Danzq (Apr 7, 2015)

Ruined said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > You buy from a reputable and authorized dealer.
> ...



Took me around 3 months to send mine in. It was pretty okay but not at the level one of canons best AF systems should be. Now the mirror box, main sensor and shutter are being replaced. Before I sent it in the shop I bought it from had a quick look at it and said it was fine...

I think it takes atleast a semi pro to notice anything wrong with these bad copies and many of em wont ever be fixed...


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## Marsu42 (Apr 7, 2015)

Ruined said:


> I've noticed a lot of complaints of AI Servo AF issues on this camera since launch, and those that sent to Canon needed to often have their shutter and mirror box replaced in numerous cases. It seems to be a common repair thread.



"Numerous cases"? If you assume that 2/3rd of people having problems with their 7d2 are very verbal on the Internet, and tons of 7d2 sold the issues are next to none - as always with mass-marketed gear, Canon wouldn't risk a real big repair callback.

And then of course there are those folks who think having howmany af points means you don't need skill to operate the camera anymore and find themselves wondering why the pictures are kinda "soft" and don't look like in the nature mags sooc.


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## Ruined (Apr 8, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > I've noticed a lot of complaints of AI Servo AF issues on this camera since launch, and those that sent to Canon needed to often have their shutter and mirror box replaced in numerous cases. It seems to be a common repair thread.
> ...



That explanation doesn't make the most sense for a few reasons:
1. Far more 70D cameras sold, far less problems reported
2. Virtually all of the 7D2 reported problems were with AF accuracy
3. The same problems were spread across all different sites with people of different skill levels
4. It seems most who sent their camera in for repair had the same repair completed, mirror box and shutter replacement which fixed the issue

Reading between the lines, it appears to be that a larger than usual batch of defective hardware went out with the initial batch of 7D2 cameras based on all the chatter. Question is, how big, and what manufacture dates are definitely not affected?


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## takesome1 (Apr 8, 2015)

Ruined said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Ruined said:
> ...



I have only seen one on this site that had the replacement you mention in 4. Others have sent in bodies and they calibrated them. Mine the report said something was out of alignment. As someone who had a problem and have been watching the forums about 7D II problems I find your conclusions to be inaccurate.

These issues were repaired at no charge by Canon. Mine took 7 days from the time I dropped it off at Fedex until it was returned to my door.

Safe to buy a 7D II, very IMO.


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## Ruined (Apr 8, 2015)

takesome1 said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



But even in your case, it appears a hardware adjustment (not just AFMA) was needed. Doesn't that seem a bit odd that so many are needing to send in their 7D2 bodies?


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## takesome1 (Apr 8, 2015)

Ruined said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ruined said:
> ...




The 1D x had a few issues at release. Those that bought those bodies still thinks it is a great camera.
I don't think it is odd on a new release. As long as Canon honors the warranty and the problem can be corrected it is no issue at all.


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## ksgal (Apr 8, 2015)

I'm one who bought early (end of October 2014) and have been back and forth and think I have a good copy. Originally I think most of my problems were operator error, and steep learning curve with the af, also, I don't give a poop about a photo unless focus is On Target so I changed all my servo case settings to reflect that -focus priority and don't fire unless you get focus, your darn camera. Once I did that, the only issues are my ability to tell the camera what I need. 

In some respects, I think -as a group - those who want a 7D2 are more educated and understand how to test and get the best out of the camera vs those that would buy a 70D... So any manufacturing tolerances that aren't up to snuff are being ferreted out more. 

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the camera to anyone, with the byline that careful testing In Good Light is highly recommended if you like to see tack sharp at 100%. As noted, a purchase from a reputable dealer with a good return policy in the event of any issues is a smart move. JMHO.


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## rshachar (Apr 17, 2015)

Can you share more information of how you have figured out you had issues with your AF system?
I have gotten my copy two weeks ago and I'm not sure about the performance of the AF system at Servo AF.
Thanks!


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## ksgal (Apr 20, 2015)

I have the same camera, I've never sent it in, and I've figured out that the problems are with the operator - not the camera, although apparently there are some assembly problems with the mirror box that does show up on a few. 

This camera does have quirks, and the biggest is getting all the right techniques to get the best out of the camera. This sensor gets muddy if you under expose. Many times I see someone saying their pictures aren't sharp, or there are MFA issues, and the thing I notice with a lot of them is they are under exposed. Practicing ETTR with this camera/sensor makes a difference, particularly with higher iso shots. However, when it nails it, it nails it for me, no question. MFA/Testing in white florescent lighting is not recomeded (which is what I did first, big 'doh!') And will throw you off. I had dialed in MFA when testing under those conditions, then I realized it was making the focus worse, and pulled all the mfa off and now I can get razor sharp, as I should be. In AI servo, I don't want the shot unless it is tack sharp, so I make sure the settings are like that, and now I do get what I want, although it means the camera will 'hang' before snapping the shutter sometimes. That goes back to developing a technique that will work for me and the camera to get what I need. 

I have no regrets buying this camera, and would get another one if the 5D3 hasn't become so cheap - I'm going to get another body, and it will be either another 7DII or 5D3 - my second body at the moment is a 5DII - which I love the image quality and hate the AF - but it is a capable camera in its own right.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 23, 2015)

lok 
they just announced a firmware fix is coming next week so no worries


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## NancyP (Apr 23, 2015)

I am waiting to update my 5 year old non-Retina Mac computer with 10.6.8 OS, and then to update Lr4 to Lr6, which only works on 10.9 and 10.10, and THEN I can use Lr to handle the files of a 7D2. Q4? My current action camera is a 60D, and it plays well with my copy of the 400 f/5.6L.


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## sanj (Apr 23, 2015)

Ruined I now understand. So sorry. I had blind faith in Canon.


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## weixing (Apr 23, 2015)

Hi,


NancyP said:


> I am waiting to update my 5 year old non-Retina Mac computer with 10.6.8 OS, and then to update Lr4 to Lr6, which only works on 10.9 and 10.10, and THEN I can use Lr to handle the files of a 7D2. Q4? My current action camera is a 60D, and it plays well with my copy of the 400 f/5.6L.


 I just use ADC to convert the 7D2 RAW to DNG, so I can still use my LR 4 to process the image from 7D2... LR6 doesn't seem to have much improvement on the basic processing function and performance. 

Have a nice day.


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## NancyP (Apr 28, 2015)

ADC?


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## ple (Apr 29, 2015)

NancyP said:


> ADC?



Adobe DNG Converter?

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=106&platform=Macintosh


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## Marsu42 (Apr 29, 2015)

NancyP said:


> ADC?



ADC is basically a wrapper for ACR :->


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## Pixel (Apr 30, 2015)

So what happened to our firmware that was sure to be released early this week?


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## machx0r (Apr 30, 2015)

Pixel said:


> So what happened to our firmware that was sure to be released early this week?



It was a rumor from a user that sent their camera in for repair and heard it from a customer service rep. I'm not saying the information is bad but I wouldn't hold my breath on the timeline.

That said I went ahead and shipped my camera in because even if there is a firmware release that improves AF it doesn't mean that there also isn't a hardware issue.


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## Ruined (May 16, 2015)

Canon should issue an internal recall to retailers and get all bodies to 1.04... Though now it appears that FW has issues also (lockups)!

If there is a hardware issue, Canon should issue a public recall for all suspected S/Ns and get these bodies fixed. This is supposed to be a pro crop camera, not an entry level camera.


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## Keith_Reeder (May 16, 2015)

Ruined said:


> Canon should issue an internal recall to retailers and get all bodies to 1.04... Though now it appears that FW has issues also (lockups)!
> 
> If there is a hardware issue, Canon should issue a public recall for all suspected S/Ns and get these bodies fixed. This is supposed to be a pro crop camera, not an entry level camera.



No, that's not over-reacting _at all_ to what amounts to a tiny handful of actual problem cameras...


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## neuroanatomist (May 16, 2015)

Ruined said:


> If there is a hardware issue, Canon should issue a public recall for all suspected S/Ns and get these bodies fixed. This is supposed to be a pro crop camera, not an entry level camera.



*If* there is a widespread hardware issue Canon would do just that, as they just did for the entry-level T6i/750D (which came out well after the 7DII). What does that suggest about the extent – or lack thereof – of the 7DII AF issues?


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## TeT (May 16, 2015)

it may take a couple of firmwares to get all of the atypical kinks worked out. 

Time and time again it is proven that the consumer mass will come up with combinations settings and situations that the lab will miss...


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