# Canon USA Warns Against Lithium Battery Use With Speedlites



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 18, 2014)

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<p><strong>Details</strong>

AA Lithium batteries cannot be used with any Speedlite or Macrolite products and compact battery packs including those listed below because certain AA lithium batteries, in rare cases, may become extremely hot during usage in such products.</p>
<p><!--more-->

<strong>Canon Products</strong>

Speedlite 220EX

Speedlite 270EX

Speedlite 270EX II

Speedlite 320EX

Speedlite 380EX

Speedlite 420EX

Speedlite 430EX

Speedlite 430EX II

Speedlite 540EZ

Speedlite 550EX

Speedlite 580EX

Speedlite 580EX II

Speedlite 600EX

Speedlite 600EX-RT

Macro Ring Lite MR-14EX

Macro Ring Lite MR-14EX II

Macro Twin Lite MT-24EX

Compact Battery Pack CP-E2

Compact Battery Pack CP-E3

Compact Battery Pack CP-E4</p>
<p><strong>Support</strong>

This information is for residents of the United States and Puerto Rico only. If you do not reside in the USA or Puerto Rico, please contact the Canon Customer Support Center in your region.</p>
<p>Thank you,

Customer Support Operations

Canon U.S.A., Inc</p>
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## Marsu42 (Dec 18, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> This information is for residents of the United States and Puerto Rico only. If you do not reside in the USA or Puerto Rico, please contact the Canon Customer Support Center in your region.



Muahaha, so the batteries stop exploding when used by a non-US resident, even if staying inside the US?

Or is it because the weird US law system has so exepensive lawsuits that even a very minor danger needs a warning? But in this case, what's Puerto Rico doing in there?


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## lintoni (Dec 18, 2014)

Puerto Rico is an American territory.


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## Old Sarge (Dec 18, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > This information is for residents of the United States and Puerto Rico only. If you do not reside in the USA or Puerto Rico, please contact the Canon Customer Support Center in your region.
> ...


Exactly what I thought.


> Or is it because the weird US law system has so expensive lawsuits that even a very minor danger needs a warning? But in this case, what's Puerto Rico doing in there?


Puerto Rico is a U.S. Territory so most laws are similar to those in the various states. Of course there is also a U.S. Federal District Court there.


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## TeT (Dec 18, 2014)

Want instant gratification; shoot a lawyer.

I say that in the nicest way possible; so don't sue me...


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## Khufu (Dec 18, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> certain AA lithium batteries, in rare cases, may become extremely hot during usage in such products.



Certain? Particular? Precise brand selection?... They could never let us know which though, not without years of rigorous scientific testing, that would be slanderous and could provoke lawsuits! Not telling us though, that could be dangerous and provoke lawsuits! 

My lithium batteries just here say they're suitable for camera flashes. I don't know who to believe!


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## mrzero (Dec 18, 2014)

This is really just a quiet way of saying "We won't cover repairs to your speedlite under warranty if you tell us you used lithium batteries."


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## Click (Dec 18, 2014)

mrzero said:


> This is really just a quiet way of saying "We won't cover repairs to your speedlite under warranty if you tell us you used lithium batteries."



+1


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## mangobutter (Dec 18, 2014)

I've been using Eneloops in my Speedlites (And Nikon units) for years without problems


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## Yankeedog (Dec 18, 2014)

Yeah... I've been using lithiums in my Speedlite for years with no issues. Never noticed any significant heat buildup. Not going to stop using my lithiums now.

Granted, I only use good quality lithiums, and the number of shots/min. I'm taking when I use the Speedlite is usually not very high. I could see how overheating might become an issue if you're really cycling the flash hard for an extended period of time.


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## Steve Balcombe (Dec 18, 2014)

mangobutter said:


> I've been using Eneloops in my Speedlites (And Nikon units) for years without problems



Same here. Years ago I used to carry a set or two of lithium batteries as emergency spares because unlike traditional rechargeables they don't lose their charge. But Eneloops have made that unnecessary.


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 18, 2014)

Perhaps Canon is considering marketing their own brand of batteries? ;D


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## Velo Steve (Dec 18, 2014)

Some here already know, and some don't...
The Eneloop batteries are a form of NiMh battery, not Lithium.

See http://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/eneloop-products/eneloop-batteries.html


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## msatter (Dec 18, 2014)

Maybe because there also ones with 3.6volt instead of 1.5volt. I only use NiMH for my flashes.


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## KeithBreazeal (Dec 18, 2014)

About panicked when I first read that. I have 32 NiMH batteries and two 4-bay fast chargers to support the 580EXII and other camera gear. 
And yes, Puerto Rico is one of our infamous welfare states.


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## RGF (Dec 18, 2014)

For years I used lithiums and an external quantum battery pack without problem. I would burst shoot but really push the flash.

I suspect that if the flash is pushed very hard Lithium batteries could get very hot. I find my imedion get hot when I charge them; I have not pushed them hard when shooting so not sure if they would get hot on discharge.

Bottom line (IMO - not an official statement from Canon - said in case some one follows my thoughts and has a bad results and then wants to sue me ) don't push your flash unit to the point of exhaustion.


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## FTBPhotography (Dec 18, 2014)

All i use are the energizer ultimate lithium 1.5v in both my 600 EXRT's. Never an issue. The advisory even says "in rare cases" so this obviously isnt a big issue.


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 18, 2014)

Velo Steve said:


> Some here already know, and some don't...
> The Eneloop batteries are a form of NiMh battery, not Lithium.
> 
> See http://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/eneloop-products/eneloop-batteries.html



Are you trying to introduce facts into CR? ;D


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## Steve Balcombe (Dec 18, 2014)

Velo Steve said:


> Some here already know, and some don't...
> The Eneloop batteries are a form of NiMh battery, not Lithium.
> 
> See http://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/eneloop-products/eneloop-batteries.html



Yep. Just to clarify what I wrote - *bold *words are added:



Steve Balcombe said:


> Years ago I used to carry a set or two of lithium batteries as emergency spares because unlike traditional *NiMH *rechargeables they don't lose their charge. But Eneloops *(low self-discharge NiMH) *have made that unnecessary.


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## Cochese (Dec 18, 2014)

Tch... I've been using lithium batteries with my speedlites for nearly four years now. Not a single issue. Granted, the only one's I've used (or are aware of on the normal consumer market) are the Energizer brand.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 18, 2014)

mangobutter said:


> I've been using Eneloops in my Speedlites (And Nikon units) for years without problems


 
of course, they are NOT lithium batteries, so what's your point?


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## ctaylor42 (Dec 18, 2014)

I must be out of the loop. Are there rechargeable 1.5V lithium AAs? Maybe one of the problems Canon is fighting is people accidentally using the 3.7V lithium batteries which are similar to AA batteries.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 18, 2014)

ctaylor42 said:


> I must be out of the loop. Are there rechargeable 1.5V lithium AAs? Maybe one of the problems Canon is fighting is people accidentally using the 3.7V lithium batteries which are similar to AA batteries.


 
I did not see anything about rechargeable. the Lithium batteries can be used by adding two dummy batteries so that they provide about the same voltage to the flash. They store more power, and last longer. Canon is merely saying that some of them overheat due to the high current a flash uses. Its not likely to be a issue unless you are really using the flash heavily.

It has nothing to do with external battery units or Eneloop or li-on.


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## emag (Dec 18, 2014)

KeithBreazeal said:


> And yes, Puerto Rico is one of our infamous welfare states.


Someday you should visit the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. Bring your camera and enjoy the natural beauty of the "infamous welfare state." Welfare caseload per capita in Puerto Rico is lower than in 34 other states/territories and the District of Columbia.


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## Tuscani2k03 (Dec 18, 2014)

Hmm, I find it odd that nobody else here has run into this issue. I shoot weddings with mine, and the batteries get hot enough that they can't be held in your hand. I use energizer ultimate. Any suggestions from other's who may have to shoot a lot using the flash during a short period of time?


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## Old Shooter (Dec 18, 2014)

Velo Steve said:


> Some here already know, and some don't...
> The Eneloop batteries are a form of NiMh battery, not Lithium.
> 
> See http://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/eneloop-products/eneloop-batteries.html



I have always used NiMH in my strobes - that type of battery is better suited for the power demands of constant recycling... Li-ion batteries are noted for their low drain and fantastic shelf life - that is why you find them used for your camera battery pack...


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## Old Shooter (Dec 18, 2014)

Tuscani2k03 said:


> Hmm, I find it odd that nobody else here has run into this issue. I shoot weddings with mine, and the batteries get hot enough that they can't be held in your hand. I use energizer ultimate. Any suggestions from other's who may have to shoot a lot using the flash during a short period of time?



Try a set of NiMH...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N=10802640&InitialSearch=yes&sts=pi


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## Diamir (Dec 18, 2014)

mangobutter said:


> I've been using Eneloops in my Speedlites (And Nikon units) for years without problems


But Eneloops are rechargeable NiMH batteries, not Lithium.


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## KeithBreazeal (Dec 18, 2014)

emag said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > And yes, Puerto Rico is one of our infamous welfare states.
> ...


Been there many times. The summers are likened to being in a sauna.


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## rpt (Dec 19, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Perhaps Canon is considering marketing their own brand of batteries? ;D


 ;D ;D ;D


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 19, 2014)

mrzero said:


> This is really just a quiet way of saying "We won't cover repairs to your speedlite under warranty if you tell us you used lithium batteries."


 
They won't cover repairs to you either, no replacement fingers, hands, or eyes.


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## weixing (Dec 19, 2014)

Hi,
Hmm... may be Canon service center had report enough case for Canon to cause concern and issue this warning??

Have a nice day.


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## CaptainZero (Dec 19, 2014)

I had a terrible experience with the Nimh rechargeables. Right when I bought my 580EX, I started buying rechargeables. I had about 20 batteries, and 2 fast chargers. I used them for other things besides my flash, but about the 3rd or 4th time through my flash, they leaked all over. I threw the whole works in the garbage, and haven't looked back. 

What would be great, would be if the flash took an LP-E6.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 19, 2014)

CaptainZero said:


> I had a terrible experience with the Nimh rechargeables. Right when I bought my 580EX, I started buying rechargeables. I had about 20 batteries, and 2 fast chargers. I used them for other things besides my flash, but about the 3rd or 4th time through my flash, they leaked all over. I threw the whole works in the garbage, and haven't looked back.
> 
> What would be great, would be if the flash took an LP-E6.


 
Fast chargers are known to destroy batteries. Use Eneloop batteries and their charger, or a good Maha charger. Stay far away from those energizer fast chargers.


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## KAS (Dec 19, 2014)

Quantum Turbo for the win. Sure it gets a little bit warm, but so do Duracells in the flash itself.


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## lescrane (Dec 19, 2014)

I've been using the Energizer Lithium AA's w/the speedlights for as long as they've been on the market. They last for years and are lighter weight and yes, faster recycling. I don't do burst flash shooting and I would probably avoid it because yes, the batteries will heat up.........maybe worse, but I never pushed the envelope so to speak.


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## rawshooter (Dec 19, 2014)

So what are they talking about, rechargeable lithium batteries (is there such a thing?) or just regular ones?

I'm using "Varta Lithium Professionals" and have quite a stockpile, so it would suck if i shouldn't use them anymore.


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## Diamir (Dec 19, 2014)

rawshooter said:


> [...] rechargeable lithium batteries (is there such a thing?)[...]


Li-ion, LiPo, LiFePO4, etc. Are rechargeables Lithium batteries.
But the nominal voltage for one cell is about 3.7/3.8V.
In AA size, you can find 3.8V Li-something rechargeable cells but you have to adapt them inside the battery compartment...

So I think it is Lithium non rechargeable cells.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 19, 2014)

rawshooter said:


> So what are they talking about, rechargeable lithium batteries (is there such a thing?) or just regular ones?



Actually a good question, there seems to be a lot of different li types. In the absence of information, Canon has to talk about all of them, rechargable or not. As far as I just read, the problem seems to be rapid discharge, and that would be what happens in a flash, but not in a camera or mobile phone.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion



rawshooter said:


> I'm using "Varta Lithium Professionals" and have quite a stockpile, so it would suck if i shouldn't use them anymore.



These things indeed seem to be not without risk, even air travel with them is restricted. Canon has quite a linup of li batteries themselves and warns against this as early as 2008:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer?pageKeyCode=prdAdvDetail&docId=0901e0248004cd70s


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## photo212 (Dec 19, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Perhaps Canon is considering marketing their own brand of batteries? ;D


They have for years...
http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/batteries-and-chargers/batteries-and-chargers/powershot-batteries-chargers/battery-pack-nb4-300


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## funkboy (Dec 19, 2014)

To me this seems like a "cover your butt" press release than anything else.

I only use Lithium batteries in my flashes & they work great. They have an extremely long shelf live, good energy density, and they are noticeably lighter than other battery types I've tried, which is a big deal for me as I have a history of trouble with my right wrist.

They certainly have a faster recycle time than most rechargeables. However, I don't go nuts with it as I know that it'll overheat the flash head. Like this: http://blog1.1001noisycameras.com/2010/01/30seconds-to-overheat-adventures-with-the-sb900-flash-and-nizn-aa-batteries.html


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## AvTvM (Dec 19, 2014)

photo212 said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps Canon is considering marketing their own brand of batteries? ;D
> ...



however, according to the compatibility list in the product link above, these Canon AA batteries are not compatible with Canon speedlites. Probably one needs to buy more expensive ones ... ;D


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## Chaitanya (Dec 19, 2014)

ctaylor42 said:


> I must be out of the loop. Are there rechargeable 1.5V lithium AAs? Maybe one of the problems Canon is fighting is people accidentally using the 3.7V lithium batteries which are similar to AA batteries.


there are no 1.5V lithium ion cells on market. Ifr are typically around 3.2V and Imr/Icr are 3.7V cells. 14500 sized lithium ion cells are AA sized and they are readily available due to use in torches. 

one of the main problem with these lithium chemistry based cells is that in case they explode, fire started bu lithium is nearly impossible to extinguish. this advisory might be to warm people about hazards of lithium cells.


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## AvTvM (Dec 19, 2014)

For speedlites I normally use rechargable Panasonic Eneloop AA (NiMH).

However, in some instances I also use non-rechargable Lithium 1.2V AA cells, typically Energizer Lithium or Varta (which may well be identical except for branding). They are considerably lighter than NiMH cells and hold their charge longer in cold environments. Therefore they are my preferred choice for randonee ski-touring in winter - for anything from avalanche beacon, headlamp, torch to speedlites and other electronic gear. Sometimes I also carried along a vertical grip battery magazin loaded with 6xAA LiIon cells as "emergency power" for the camera. 

I've experienced absolutely no issues with (non-rechargable) 1.2V LiIon AA cells up to now and will continue to use them in the future as and when I see fit to do so, no matter what Canon thinks or advises.


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## dgatwood (Dec 19, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> However, in some instances I also use non-rechargable Lithium 1.2V AA cells, typically Energizer Lithium or Varta (which may well be identical except for branding).



FYI, most non-rechargeable Lithium cells are nominally 1.5V, not 1.2V.


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## Twostones (Dec 19, 2014)

I use only Lithium batteries in my speedlights. The DOT regulations and the TSA say you can fly with Lithium AA batteries and other lithium batteries but they require you carry them as “carry on” baggage and not “Checkd Baggage." Here are the regulations. http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/safe-travel-batteries-and-devices


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## Diamir (Dec 20, 2014)

If we read carefully the article, it is said there is a temperature problem.
This is related to the recycle time (of the speedlite) and the rate YOU get the pictures.

With a high performance battery, the recycle time is short (due mostly to the low internal resistance of the battery).
So, if you like to get the picture at a high rate, the recycling time is not the limiting factor.

Normally, in such a situation, the speedlite has an internal security switch that switch down the unit in case of overheating.
The principal source of heating of a battery (from it self), is its internal resistance, but the current is limited with the external circuitry (speedlite). If YOU get the picture at a high rate there is not time to cool the battery... and the speedlite neither.

I suspect the protection circuitry to be wrongly calibrated to protect the whole unit. 

The battery by itself is never the cause of the heating, it is the supplied current (drained by the flash), the recycling time (which depend on the flah) and the triggering rate (which depends on you).


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## tcmatthews (Dec 20, 2014)

I use mostly NiMH rechargeable batteries. But on occasion have used Lithium batteries. First of all NiMH are normally very stable. Nearly bullet proof. You can charge one backwards and it will not explode. (They actual will charge backwards but I would not do that.) When they over heat they release Hydrogen and there life is shortened. When the quick charger says they are bad I charge them in a old slow NiCad charger. No problems. NiMH can have fast cycle time (high current out) with out damage. 

Lithium batteries over heat with fast cycle time. Cannot support has fast cycle times and overheat more easily than NiMH, NiCad and alkaline batteries. Many types of Lithium batteries have a problem with thermal runaway. (Once a certain internal temperature is reached the battery continue to heat-up until they explode and/or catch fire. If this happens water will not put it out only accelerate the reaction.) 

The typical flash circuit is not one that a Lithium battery is well suited for. (I read a Lithium battery package warning that warned against using in a camera flash.)

The Speedlite internal circuits are designed to protect itself from thermal problems. It is also likely designed to charge as fast as possible. All other batteries will get hot but not be an issue. If the circuit was designed for Lithium batteries it would by necessity slow down flash cycle time. Only Lithium have rapid heating issues at high current draw(created by the flash cycle time) and can enter thermal runaway.

Lithium have much higher storage density than NiMH. As long as you are not cycling the flash fast they could save weight and last a long time.


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## PhotographAdventure (Dec 21, 2014)

Just to be safe, I will also toss my stock canon camera batteries away too. I believe they are the lithium type. I can feel some warmth from them after usage. I cannot afford additional camera risk.


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## NadaMal (Dec 23, 2014)

I've used Lithium batteries for at least 5 years, and on two occasions I've had a flash gun overheated and the safety circuitry has locked up the flash gun. (both times during the photo's taken after the first dance at weddings)

I've never had this with regular batteries, but the recharge times I've had with regular batteries can be so slow it impedes my shooting, so I much prefer Lithium. I try not to be too trigger happy with them to allow enough heat dissipation from the unit.

For now, I will continue to use Lithium.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 23, 2014)

NadaMal said:


> I've never had this with regular batteries, but the recharge times I've had with regular batteries can be so slow it impedes my shooting, so I much prefer Lithium.



Well, that's what the external power port is for, isn't it? I don't know what shooting frequency you can achieve with a li battery inside that flash, but I cannot imagine it comes near using an external power block - and then, our only source of heat is the flash tube.


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