# A Rundown of Canon at Photokina



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 3, 2014)

```
<p>Photokina is only 13 days away, and a lot of companies are already announcing their goods for the show. Canon will be announcing a new DSLR, some new lenses and a few PowerShot cameras. We have conflicting reports of when these announcements are being made. We were initially told that the NDA’s expired on September 5, 2014 in Europe. However, a good source tells us they don’t expect to see the EOS 7D Mark II announced until midnight on September 15, 2014, which is a day before Photokina begins. If anyone can shed light as to when the announcements are, please let us know.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specifications

</strong>Below is the expected specs of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II, we haven’t had anything to say that these are not the real deal. There could still be some surprises, especially around the sensor.</p>
<ul>
<li>Kit lenses: 18-135 IS STM and 15-85 IS (no STM)</li>
<li>CF, UDMA mode 7 + SD, UHS-I</li>
<li>GPS is in the camera</li>
<li>No WiFi</li>
<li>Fixed LCD, with no touch function.</li>
<li>20.2MP APS-C Sensor</li>
<li>Dual Pixel CMOS AF</li>
<li>Dual DIGIC 6 Processors</li>
<li>65 AF points “All Cross-type”. Dual cross on the center point.</li>
<li>f/8 on center point at least, could be on more points.</li>
<li>10fps</li>
<li>ISO 100-12800, ISO Boost mode 25600 and 51200</li>
<li>1080p/720p both get 60fps</li>
<li>Servo AF for video shooting.</li>
<li>Anti-flicker mode, eliminates flickers under flickering lights (e.g. fluorescent lamps).</li>
<li>Spot metering size 1.8%</li>
<li>Built-in flash</li>
<li>Mic and headphones connectors</li>
<li>Can sync time between 7D II cameras.</li>
<li>Lens electronic MF</li>
<li>About 100% coverage OVF</li>
<li>New Battery – LP-E6N</li>
<li>New Battery Grip BG-E16</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>New Lenses

</strong>It looks like 3 new lenses are coming. Surprisingly we will not be seeing the announcement of the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS replacement, unless Canon does a “development” announcement.</p>
<ul>
<li>EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM Pancake</li>
<li>EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM</li>
<li>EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>New PowerShot Cameras

</strong>We can only confirm the announcement of a 1″ sensor camera from Canon that will be about the size of an “S” series camera. There’s a chance we’ll finally see the SX60 HS and a replacement waterproof/shockproof camera.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## sanj (Sep 3, 2014)

I will be delighted with the new focus points.
10 fps is great.
Wish it has 1 stop better ISO IQ but I think it will be half of that.
Better DR at low ISO would be welcome.

The new battery should be good too!


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## raptor3x (Sep 3, 2014)

I wonder if the anti-flicker thing is a video or stills technology. If it's video then, meh. If it's meant for stills to help handle low frequency florescents then that's a bit of a game changer for indoor sports.


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## CANONisOK (Sep 3, 2014)

A bit confused by the 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake prime. I use the 24mm f/2.8 IS on my SL1 and it is *tiny*. 

I guess if you're really interested in saving a minute amount of weight & size, a little bit of money, and trade IS for STM it might be worth it. But I can't see it myself.


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## pknight (Sep 3, 2014)

CR,

Can you provide some clarification about the meaning of "lens electronic MF"? Does MF here refer to manual focus or micro-focus? I have seen both meanings speculated about in another thread.

A new battery is great if it improves performance, but I'm looking at my four 7D batteries, wishing I could use them if and when I upgrade.


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## mackguyver (Sep 3, 2014)

The EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II still has me scratching my head, but so far the rumors are all good news for my wallet 8)


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## PicaPica (Sep 3, 2014)

don´t need the 7D MK2 but i had hoped they will show a new 100-400mm.

or a new ultrawide zoom... 12-24mm f2.8.

when the sensor turns out to be a pimped 70D sensor it´s overall disappointing or at least not very exciting, for me. 

i hope the new "big sensor" powershot is something that makes my mouth water. 
i need a small camera.

ah well so i have more time to look at the other companys (i live near köln).


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## vlim (Sep 3, 2014)

If it's true about the 400 f/4 DO, it's another 8 or 9 thousands €/$ lens that the majority of us can't afford !!! a new 100-400 or 400 would become immediately a great seller with the new 7dII : Speaking of that new body i don't see its price above 2000 € with these specs but who knows 8)


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## Maximilian (Sep 3, 2014)

Except for the 7D2 (depending on final specs and more sensor details) quite disappointing news list :-\ :'(

The 7D2 won't be on my list so I was hoping for more new "semi-/professional" lenses, like a 50mm or other primes, of course the new 100 - 400L, but for this I now won't believe in any new lens until it is availabe everywhere 

So good to know that I don't have any time to go to photokina because a little earlier I was quite tempted :


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## PicaPica (Sep 3, 2014)

vlim said:


> If it's true about the 400 f/4 DO, it's another 8 or 9 thousands €/$ lens that the majority of us can't afford !!! a new 100-400 or 400 would become immediately a great seller with the new 7dII : Speaking of that new body i don't see its price above 2000 € with these specs but who knows 8)



when you look at the rumored specs the new samsung NX1 should be better in any regard (15 FPS, 154 crosstype AF points, 28 MP, 4K video, wifi)... and the rumored price is 1499 euro.

still can´t believe that is true.. but well we speak about rumors here. 

we all know specs on the paper do not make a good camera or camera system.

but at least the specs look interesting.


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## Maximilian (Sep 3, 2014)

CANONisOK said:


> A bit confused by the 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake prime. I use the 24mm f/2.8 IS on my SL1 and it is *tiny*.
> 
> I guess if you're really interested in saving a minute amount of weight & size, a little bit of money, and trade IS for STM it might be worth it. But I can't see it myself.


I can understand your arguments, but ...
thinking about an 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake at the price and performance of the 40mm pancake I think the 24mm f/2.8 IS it a totally different league and nothing to compare. your thoughts?
(of course if you already have the 24mm f/2.8 IS the 24mm pancake is not interesting)


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## preppyak (Sep 3, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM


I'm guessing this means the 24-105L is at the end of the line? Or will they have 3 lenses, this (replacing the 28-135), the 24-105L, and the 24-70f/4L?



raptor3x said:


> I wonder if the anti-flicker thing is a video or stills technology. If it's video then, meh. If it's meant for stills to help handle low frequency florescents then that's a bit of a game changer for indoor sports.


I'd bet its a video feature. The 7D gets used a lot in sports production, so the 60fps and flicker removal would make a lot of sense.


CANONisOK said:


> A bit confused by the 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake prime. I use the 24mm f/2.8 IS on my SL1 and it is *tiny*.


I think its partially size, but also price: http://camerasize.com/compact/#448.345,448.288,ha,t

Size isnt a big difference, but I cant see the pancake costing more than $250, and I'd bet it retails the same as the 40mm pancake. I could buy both pancakes AND a 50mm f/1,8 and still have money leftover instead of buying the 28mm IS.


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## PicaPica (Sep 3, 2014)

there is still this rumor about something "historical" from canon that will make a big splash... i wonder what it is?

just hot air?


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## DominoDude (Sep 3, 2014)

*disappointed sigh*
If I can't have a 1200mm pancake lens, that's so dense and compact it rips a hole in the time-space continuum, then I'll skip getting any new glass for a while.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 3, 2014)

It doesn't sound like 5d and 1d series going to be at 2014 photokina.


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## PicaPica (Sep 3, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> It doesn't sound like 5d and 1d series going to be at 2014 photokina.



2016


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## Tom W (Sep 3, 2014)

If by "S" series, you mean similar to the S-100 or S-120, then I'd be interested in a large-sensor'ed version. I have the S-100 and it's a nice little pocket camera, though obviously, the small sensor has some limitations as far as latitude goes.


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> CANONisOK said:
> 
> 
> > A bit confused by the 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake prime. I use the 24mm f/2.8 IS on my SL1 and it is *tiny*.
> ...



This has previously been beaten up at length:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22337.msg428522#msg428522

Both lenses are sharp, have the same focal length and have the same max aperture. Other than, they are quite different. A pancake is a sharp & small photography tool that is stripped down of many features. The non-L IS refresh lenses are basically sleeper L lenses minus the weathersealing and the red ring. One is not better than the other -- it just depends on what you need. 

What's more important is the rumour update that the new pancake may be an EF-*S* mount. As a FF user, that's disappointing to hear, but now each of Canon's mounts would have a 35-40mm FF equivalent pancake to call on.

- A


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## helpful (Sep 3, 2014)

> EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II



Be still my beating heart!

The 7D II sounds good too, and if its sensor is a true breakthrough, I'll probably go through five of them just like I did with the first version!

I would LOVE to have the luxury of using crop sensors instead of full frame, and still having the quality customers demand from me, but it's been a dream too good to be true... hopefully that will change on September 15th!


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## knoxtown (Sep 3, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> It doesn't sound like 5d and 1d series going to be at 2014 photokina.



We're not that lucky.


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## schmidtfilme (Sep 3, 2014)

I am wondering what the detailed video spec will be. Sony is having killer specs here at the moment. Great Codec, EVF, 4K optional and so on. Sony has even a handle for XLR inputs:

http://store.sony.com/xlr-adapter-and-microphone-kit-zid27-XLRK1M/cat-27-catid-All-Camcorders-NEX-Accessories

and this one:

http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/04/14/nab-2014-improved-sony-xlr-audio-jackpack-for-a7s/


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## lycan (Sep 3, 2014)

If those are the lenses to be announced, then it's a major letdown

If the new 7D comes with the same old sensor, then it's a major letdown


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## CANONisOK (Sep 3, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> CANONisOK said:
> 
> 
> > A bit confused by the 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake prime. I use the 24mm f/2.8 IS on my SL1 and it is *tiny*.
> ...


I see what you're saying also. But I don't think the 40mm has a huge image quality advantage over the new 24mm IS (very marginally sharper in the corners than the 24mm IS) - they were released at the same time after all. And I'd take IS over STM any day of the week, especially when there is no speed difference. And the 24mm IS can be used on full frame cameras as well. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose!


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

preppyak said:


> Size isnt a big difference, but I cant see the pancake costing more than $250, and I'd bet it retails the same as the 40mm pancake. I could buy both pancakes AND a 50mm f/1,8 and still have money leftover instead of buying the 28mm IS.



And then you'd have _three_ lenses that focus slower than a charging John Cleese. 

For me -- and your needs may be different -- I'll take _one_ of the non-L IS refresh lenses (24/28/35) over all three of the lenses you mentioned, principally to get USM focusing speed. 

- A


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## PicaPica (Sep 3, 2014)

by the way.. no cinema line announcements?


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## CANONisOK (Sep 3, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> This has previously been beaten up at length:
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22337.msg428522#msg428522
> 
> Both lenses are sharp, have the same focal length and have the same max aperture. Other than, they are quite different. A pancake is a sharp & small photography tool that is stripped down of many features. The non-L IS refresh lenses are basically sleeper L lenses minus the weathersealing and the red ring. One is not better than the other -- it just depends on what you need.
> ...


Wow, I missed that thread somehow. I guess the part that I forget is that the 24mm pancake will be a good "gateway lens" for those strictly using APS-C bodies.


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## NancyP (Sep 3, 2014)

7D2 specs look reasonable. Now, what will be the price?


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## Act444 (Sep 3, 2014)

preppyak said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM
> ...



That's my thinking. 

Although I don't really like that we have to lose the 106-135mm, especially as the only zoom lenses that reach beyond 105mm (besides the 70-xxx series) is the monster 28-300. BTW, a non-L version of that would be nice


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## mkabi (Sep 3, 2014)

PicaPica said:


> by the way.. no cinema line announcements?



Now thats what I'm looking forward to... I mean...
7D-C would be definitely on my wishlist.

I bet we will have to wait till NAB 2015 for an announcement. If there is one...


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## unfocused (Sep 3, 2014)

CANONisOK said:


> A bit confused by the 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake prime. I use the 24mm f/2.8 IS on my SL1 and it is *tiny*.
> 
> I guess if you're really interested in saving a minute amount of weight & size, a little bit of money, and trade IS for STM it might be worth it. But I can't see it myself.



I've read (and participated) in all the discussions before on this lens. I'm with you. I still don't see it. 24mm EF-S means effective focal length of 38mm -- barely wide angle. It won't perform better than the 24 f2.8 IS and it will be the difference between small and really small. Seems like the only advantage would be price, but I simply wouldn't want a 38mm equivalent lens even if it were free. 

That's just me, though.


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Act444 said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Agree. If that new variable max aperture 24-105 lens is offered, I doubt it will have a red ring. Such a lens should replace the 28-135 as the budget zoom for FF rigs. 

But I find it really surprising that Canon would offer a new "FF only" lens (i.e. a [24mm - anything] lens works fine on crop but folks will feel handcuffed on the wide end) at the launch of the _7D2_. So I put a ton more faith in the 15-85 and 18-135 rumors than the 24-105 rumors.

- A


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## Larry (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: A Rundown of Canon at Photokina / spot metering*

I don't understand "Spot metering size 1.8%".

I would expect a "degrees" spec rather than a percent.

Is this because of a changing "spot" size with different lenses?

I suppose I am confusing a "spot meter"proper, with camera spot metering.

Can someone enlighten me?

Thanks


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

unfocused said:


> CANONisOK said:
> 
> 
> > A bit confused by the 24mm f/2.8 EF-S pancake prime. I use the 24mm f/2.8 IS on my SL1 and it is *tiny*.
> ...



EF-M has a 22mm pancake = 35mm FF equiv
EF-S would get a 24mm pancake = 38mm FF equiv
EF has a 40mm pancake = 40mm FF equiv

I see two sides of this:

*On the it's going to happen side*: It's not consistent at all, which is nutty, but each mount would now have a _roughly 35mm_ walkaround easy-breezy pancake.

*On the it's not going to happen side*: 24mm is a FF focal length and not a crop length. 24mm is the standard for 'wide' in FF shooting. To my knowledge, with the exception of the EF-S 60mm macro, _every single EF-S lens _is from 10mm-18mm on the wide end until they jump to the tele 55- zooms. So making a pancake prime just for EF-S doesn't make much sense. One might think this pancake is actually _*EF*_ and not EF-S. Then FF users would have two pancakes for walkaround and crop users would just use the 24 pancake as their choice.

- A


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## ams2d (Sep 3, 2014)

DominoDude said:


> *disappointed sigh*
> If I can't have a 1200mm pancake lens, that's so dense and compact it rips a hole in the time-space continuum, then I'll skip getting any new glass for a while.



Until that happens (and I would want that 1200mm to be 1.4) hopefully we'll be able to put the 24mm pancake lens on top of the 40mm pancake lens so ... yep we'll have a stack of pancake lenses 

Well the good news is we will find out what will happen soon so everyone can start speculating about the next releases of cameras/lenses.

Interesting to see the cost and the timing of the availability of the new camera. IMO the price should be near or slightly lower than the 6D. Pricing it higher may lessen the number of buyers who would consider that camera myself included.

Also could someone help explain the "CF, UDMA mode 7 + SD, UHS-I" combo. Are the CF cards needed to allow the storage of the 10 fps? Is one better for video than the other? Just curious why not both CF or both SD.


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## Don Haines (Sep 3, 2014)

pknight said:


> CR,
> 
> Can you provide some clarification about the meaning of "lens electronic MF"? Does MF here refer to manual focus or micro-focus? I have seen both meanings speculated about in another thread.
> 
> A new battery is great if it improves performance, but I'm looking at my four 7D batteries, wishing I could use them if and when I upgrade.



It is almost certain that the LP-E6N battery will just be a slightly larger capacity battery than the LP-E6 and that you will be able to use your old batteries in the new camera.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 3, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> No WiFi
> Can sync time between 7D II cameras.



These two make little sense to me. What communication method do they use to do this if not WiFi? And just having them both sync to GPS doesn't count!


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## Lee Jay (Sep 3, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II



I think I'd laugh myself silly if this ended up being a 100-400/4-5.6 DO! ;D ;D ;D


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## wsmith96 (Sep 3, 2014)

I was hopeful for an updated 100-400, but maybe next year


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## Don Haines (Sep 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > No WiFi
> ...



Be careful... you are trying to use common sense on a rumour..... you might as well be asking why a camera with a fixed screen for robustness would have a pop-up flash?


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## PicaPica (Sep 3, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> These two make little sense to me. What communication method do they use to do this if not WiFi? And just having them both sync to GPS doesn't count!



cable?


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## MichaelHodges (Sep 3, 2014)

If true, this news is underwhelming.

Another year or two of this and I may be heading over to the dark side.


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## DanN (Sep 3, 2014)

wsmith96 said:


> I was hopeful for an updated 100-400, but maybe next year



This one is baffling because it's the obvious companion lens for the 7D II. I'm wondering if Canon took a long hard look at the Tokina 150-600 and decided that they had to go back to the drawing board to come up with something competitive.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 3, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> If true, this news is underwhelming.
> 
> Another year or two of this and I may be heading over to the dark side.


Just do it...I'll buy you a Starbucks coffee if you jump the ship tomorrow.


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## tomri (Sep 3, 2014)

lycan said:


> If those are the lenses to be announced, then it's a major letdown


It really depends what you are looking for. I know many people who, like myself are waiting to go FF. Today I do not see a good and affordable standard zoom option on FF. The 24-70 f4 changes focus when stopping down, the 24-105 has high risk of flex cable breaking after about 2 years, the 24-70 f2.8 is too expensive. So if the new 24-105 comes in optically fine like all recent Canon lenses, that could open the door to FF.


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## pedro (Sep 3, 2014)

raptor3x said:


> I wonder if the anti-flicker thing is a video or stills technology. If it's video then, meh. If it's meant for stills to help handle low frequency florescents then that's a bit of a game changer for indoor sports.



or it means this: you just can't upload your images to flick(e)r anymore...;-)


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## Lee Jay (Sep 3, 2014)

tomri said:


> ...the 24-105 has high risk of flex cable breaking after about 2 years,...



I've had mine, and used it like crazy, since it was first released in 2005. It's never failed to work, and it's always produced solid, reliable results.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 3, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> Except for the 7D2 (depending on final specs and more sensor details) quite disappointing news list :-\ :'(
> 
> The 7D2 won't be on my list so I was hoping for more new "semi-/professional" lenses, like a 50mm or other primes, of course the new 100 - 400L, but for this I now won't believe in any new lens until it is availabe everywhere
> 
> So good to know that I don't have any time to go to photokina because a little earlier I was quite tempted :



The AF might be awesome, but other than that it sounds awfully conservative for such an exceptionally long wait since the 7D. Almost two years ago, a top exec from Canon DSLRs had even said that the 7D2 would be utterly revolutionary and break entirely new ground. Maybe they are managing to keep the good stuff from leaking? If it uses the same 70D sensor, same DPAF, lacks 4k, doesn't improve DR, how did this take so long to release? I guess they were waiting on the '1DX2' next, next gen AF?


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## Lee Jay (Sep 3, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The AF might be awesome, but other than that it sounds awfully conservative for such an exceptionally long wait since the 7D. Almost two years ago, a top exec from Canon DSLRs had even said that the 7D2 would be utterly revolutionary and break entirely new ground.



That's a little more than he actually said. Here's the best translation I've seen:

http://www.canonwatch.com/interview-with-canons-tian-rong-makoto-7d-ii-not-a-story-of-the-day-so-far/

"_And while we are, of course, developing its successor, it’ll be one that incorporates a certain number of innovative technologies. We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory_."

"Innovative technologies" and "evolved into new territory" doesn't exactly mean "revolutionary".


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 3, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> If true, this news is underwhelming.
> 
> Another year or two of this and I may be heading over to the dark side.



I keep coming back to that post from JapaneseCanonfangirls where they claim that Canon has decided they can get away with releasing underwhelming bodies, with older sensors for the mid and upper mid-range, because people feel too looked in by their lens collections and Canon's nice lenses and UI and that Canon execs point to their sales and say hey we can get away with it so why spend $$$$$$ on new sensors and pushing full steam ahead.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > The AF might be awesome, but other than that it sounds awfully conservative for such an exceptionally long wait since the 7D. Almost two years ago, a top exec from Canon DSLRs had even said that the 7D2 would be utterly revolutionary and break entirely new ground.
> ...



hmm maybe

but even for that lower standard, this is close, but I guess the new territory is full on 1 series level AF and the innovative tech is the DPAF from the 7D and we can forget 4k or new levels of sensor performance so yeah I guess it fits, but then again wouldn't 1 series AF and 10fps vs 8fps simply be better specs? Of course I suppose almost anything would (other than say when 5D2 introduced video, that was new territory)


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## MichaelHodges (Sep 3, 2014)

Expecting lots of corporate speak to excuse away this likely product conservatism.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 3, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> but even for that lower standard, this is close, but I guess the new territory is full on 1 series level AF and the innovative tech is the DPAF from the 7D and we can forget 4k or new levels of sensor performance so yeah I guess it fits, but then again wouldn't 1 series AF and 10fps vs 8fps simply be better specs? Of course I suppose almost anything would (other than say when 5D2 introduced video, that was new territory)



It could also include something to do with that "Lens electronic MF", whatever that is, or time synchronizing. Maybe even the servo AF in video is sufficiently improved over the 70D to be considered "innovative".

We'll find out when they announce it, I suppose.


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## x-vision (Sep 3, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The AF might be awesome, but other than that it sounds awfully conservative for such an exceptionally long wait since the 7D.



+1000


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> tomri said:
> 
> 
> > ...the 24-105 has high risk of flex cable breaking after about 2 years,...
> ...



And my 24-70 F/4L IS is terrific as well. Light, compact, nearly as sharp as the 24-70 2.8 II, IS, fast focusing and a decent hand-held macro option as well. It's a terrific tool.

I generally tweak aperture before I focus, so I haven't noticed any focus-shift. In Tomri's hands, though, that might be a big deal.

- A


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## unfocused (Sep 3, 2014)

Manufacturers – not just Canon – are less and less likely to make big announcements at trade shows. There is too much risk that someone else's announcement will step on yours. Look at Nikon – their "big" announcement is likely to be another full frame body option. Not exactly groundbreaking. 

Others may think the 7D announcement is underwhelming, but no other manufacturer appears poised to make a big splash. The 7D might actually end up owning Photokina.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: A Rundown of Canon at Photokina / spot metering*



Larry said:


> I don't understand "Spot metering size 1.8%".
> I would expect a "degrees" spec rather than a percent.



That's just how Canon specifies the spot metering area - as a percent of the viewfinder area. For example, the 5DIII has 1.5% spot metering and 6.2% partial metering areas.


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Others may think the 7D announcement is underwhelming, but no other manufacturer appears poised to make a big splash. The 7D might actually end up owning Photokina.



Agree 100%. Folks on this forum are likely not to be pleased unless the sensor is some SkyNet-powered darkness explorer that spits out noise free frames at ISO 12,800, but that isn't going to stop Canon from making a *very loud racket* about the launch of their new flagship crop body. Remember the 5D3 launch? That was a red-carpet over-the-top affair and everyone heard about it. Expect a similar-level Richter-scale event for the 7D2 regardless of what's under the hood.

So this very well may be the loudest splash at Photokina despite it possibly not wowing everyone.

- A


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## CANONisOK (Sep 3, 2014)

DanN said:


> I'm wondering if Canon took a long hard look at the Tokina 150-600 and decided that they had to go back to the drawing board to come up with something competitive.


I would love for that to be the reason for the delay in the 100-400mm update. Despite the Tamron's obvious flaws I would think they've carved quite a little corner in the not-insanely expensive supertelezoom market. 
Do I think that is the actual reason? Unfortunately no. I think Canon is just content with the offering they have so far and have yet to feel the pinch/need to respond yet.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 3, 2014)

pknight said:


> Can you provide some clarification about the meaning of "lens electronic MF"? Does MF here refer to manual focus or micro-focus? I have seen both meanings speculated about in another thread.



I've also seen that speculation. It refers to manual focus. People would love an automated AFMA like FoCal provides, IIRC Canon had a patent of that sort, but who knows if it'll ever see the light of day given that Canon sort of recommends against doing AFMA in their manual, possibly becuase of the implication that it corrects a 'problem'. 

In this case, "Lens Electronic MF" is merely a setting that allows you to enable or disable the electronic manual focus of lenses which utilize electronic MF (aka focus-by-wire) – the 85L I and II, some of the old non-IS supertele lenses, a couple of others with USM, and I suppose the new STM lenses as well. I'm not even sure why CR Guy called it out with a bullet point. It's a 'feature' that both the 5DIII and 1D X have, as well.


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

CANONisOK said:


> DanN said:
> 
> 
> > I'm wondering if Canon took a long hard look at the Tokina 150-600 and decided that they had to go back to the drawing board to come up with something competitive.
> ...



Canon's lens development cycles (except for maybe their 18-55 crop kit lenses) are long and carefully planned out. I'd be stunned if they'd go back to the drawing board on a lens that was pretty far along just based on one competitive offering. 

I suppose it _might_ happen if Nikon really hit it out of the park on a pro staple lens like a 24-70 or 70-200, but redirecting / setting new goals on a lens is a massive disruption to many people, materials and dollars that already have momentum in one direction. I really doubt Canon does this very often unless it's very early in the development effort.

- A


----------



## gjones5252 (Sep 3, 2014)

From the photographer part of my job- the 7d2 sounds pretty awesome! I honestly never expected this camera to be the high megapixel one. So 20 megapixels at 10fps with good ISO sound like a great deal to me. I am excited and may buy it!

From the videographer part of my job- seriously? We need 4k in not a 10000$ body. I think canon was caught off guard by the gh4 and a7s. For anyone who says that they don't want to cut in on their 1dc sales is not thinking. If that were the case then a 60d wouldn't have 18 megapixels like the 1dx. Thre are other features- base ISO, recording codec, fps , etc. 

This may make me buy something that has 4k on it from another brand as long as I can use ef mount. I am hoping to be surprised by this anncouncement and get 4k. But I am also not just sitting at my computer refreshing canons news page.


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## Lawliet (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: A Rundown of Canon at Photokina / spot metering*



Larry said:


> I suppose I am confusing a "spot meter"proper, with camera spot metering.



Yes, its about the changeable lenses, how the in camera meter works and how weird a fixed angle meter with different focal lengths would handle if it worked.
In cameras the size of the spot meter is given as the percentage of the area of the viewfinder area sampled.
Well, either that or as the diameter of the metered circle, making it easier to put it relation to width/height. (Just rememder that not all sensors are 36x24mm²)


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## CANONisOK (Sep 3, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> CANONisOK said:
> 
> 
> > I would love for that to be the reason for the delay in the 100-400mm update. Despite the Tamron's obvious flaws I would think they've carved quite a little corner in the not-insanely expensive supertelezoom market.
> ...


I think we're in agreement here. The response I'm talking about is their response to slowing sales of their current offering. Not necessarily from a Sigma, Tammy, or other 3rd party lens offering.

However, it would be sweet to see what Canon could do with a somewhat similar zoom range as the Tammy (something like 200-500mm, for example) that doesn't cost $12k. Maybe that's one we can look forward to seeing at Photokina 2020.


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## dolina (Sep 3, 2014)

I am so looking forward to the new 7D and new L lenses.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 3, 2014)

CANONisOK said:


> However, it would be sweet to see what Canon could do with a somewhat similar zoom range as the Tammy (something like 200-500mm, for example) that doesn't cost $12k. Maybe that's one we can look forward to seeing at Photokina 2020.



I still say they don't need that. They just need a 100-400L II that's sharp on the high pixel density crop cameras with a 1.4x TC attached, and they need the crop cameras to have f/8 AF points (like the 5DIII and the rumored 7DII have). The Tamron isn't really much more than a 560/8 anyway, since it's soft at 600mm and f/6.3.


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## Etienne (Sep 3, 2014)

I hope Canon has more than this to offer. Maybe an EOS-M III / Pro, the mythical 100-400, a 50 1.4 IS, a C100mkII, a XF300mkII (XF400?)


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## ikral (Sep 3, 2014)

Oh yes, a 50mm f1.4 (or even f2.0) IS on par with the new 35 f2 IS would be extremely nice.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Sep 3, 2014)

gjones5252 said:


> From the photographer part of my job- the 7d2 sounds pretty awesome! I honestly never expected this camera to be the high megapixel one. So 20 megapixels at 10fps with good ISO sound like a great deal to me. I am excited and may buy it!
> 
> From the videographer part of my job- seriously? We need 4k in not a 10000$ body. I think canon was caught off guard by the gh4 and a7s. For anyone who says that they don't want to cut in on their 1dc sales is not thinking. If that were the case then a 60d wouldn't have 18 megapixels like the 1dx. Thre are other features- base ISO, recording codec, fps , etc.
> 
> This may make me buy something that has 4k on it from another brand as long as I can use ef mount. I am hoping to be surprised by this anncouncement and get 4k. But I am also not just sitting at my computer refreshing canons news page.



Canon doesn't want to admit there are professional filmmakers out there using DSLR & mirrorless cameras for serious work. It's a real market that has developed (ironically, thanks to Canon), but that market is not going to move up to Canon's overpriced cinema line; there's just no reason to with what Sony and Panasonic are doing. The 7D II sounds like a fine camera. Nothing amazing, but fine. It will sell to photographers. I wouldn't mine one for photography purposes. But those interested in video are already spending money elsewhere, me included. The A7s is my new love. Not only does it take all my EF glass, but I can adapt FD glass on it as well (which you can't even do with Canon's current DSLRs). "If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will." - Steve Jobs. It's already happened for video.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > but even for that lower standard, this is close, but I guess the new territory is full on 1 series level AF and the innovative tech is the DPAF from the 7D and we can forget 4k or new levels of sensor performance so yeah I guess it fits, but then again wouldn't 1 series AF and 10fps vs 8fps simply be better specs? Of course I suppose almost anything would (other than say when 5D2 introduced video, that was new territory)
> ...



Yeah there were some rumors that the servo video AF would be ground-breaking and some others that said it worked so quickly it could even assist regular stills AF and would have time to peak and make a final adjust to always perfect (seem like it would have to induce some sort of delay or pre-frame shot or something though, no?)


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## Ruined (Sep 3, 2014)

7D2 looks nice, lets see the price.

Not so enthused with the lenses, aside from the 400 DO IS II which is cool - but a prime focal length I'd never buy.

Lenses I was hoping for that I thought maybe at least one of being announced was a very real possibility:
EF 35mm f/1.4L II
EF 85mm f/1.8 IS
EF 135mm f/2L II

Lens I look forward to but I know have little remote possibility of being announced until 2016+:
EF 85mm f/1.2L III

Lens I'd be very surprised if not announced:
EF 50mm f/1.8 IS
EF 100-400mm f/5.6L II

Body I'd like to see announced:
5D4 with interchangeable focus screen and ISO performance as good or better than 6D.


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## KacperP (Sep 3, 2014)

If "Lens Electronic MF" means "Lens Electronic Manual Focus" I imagine that it could be manual control of focus using electronic controls in body... Perhaps "Follow Focus" function in body itself?
You don't flip switch on lens to "Manual", just to electronic override.

One moment you use DPAF in video shot, and when you want to take over focus, then you could do it at any point, and get back to auto seamlessly.


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## mkabi (Sep 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > No WiFi
> ...



I think its time sync in post?
You can sync video footage and/or pictures taken from multiple angles with the 7DII??

As for the line of lenses... sounds rather redundant...
Is that really what Canon's Market research is telling them? That these lenses are the most wanted and since it is easy/cheap to make, we can sell them in the boat loads.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 3, 2014)

KacperP said:


> If "Lens Electronic MF" means "Lens Electronic Manual Focus" I imagine that it could be manual control of focus using electronic controls in body... Perhaps "Follow Focus" function in body itself?
> You don't flip switch on lens to "Manual", just to electronic override.
> 
> One moment you use DPAF in video shot, and when you want to take over focus, then you could do it at any point, and get back to auto seamlessly.



http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22512.msg432731#msg432731


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## JonAustin (Sep 3, 2014)

Tom W said:


> If by "S" series, you mean similar to the S-100 or S-120, then I'd be interested in a large-sensor'ed version. I have the S-100 and it's a nice little pocket camera, though obviously, the small sensor has some limitations as far as latitude goes.



Same here. My wife has been carrying an S95 for the past 3 years, and I'd like to replace it with something in the same form factor with significantly better quality. But if it's priced above $500, I won't be able to tell her what it cost, or she won't want to carry it!

There's nothing in this announcement for me. I was hoping for a 100-400 II, but since that looks doubtful at this point, I'll keep my cash in my wallet. My next purchase will probably be a 16-35/4, when they drop a couple hundred more dollars (unless I encounter a real need for one in the meantime).


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## KacperP (Sep 3, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> KacperP said:
> 
> 
> > If "Lens Electronic MF" means "Lens Electronic Manual Focus" I imagine that it could be manual control of focus using electronic controls in body... Perhaps "Follow Focus" function in body itself?
> ...


Yes, yes, I have read it.
But does it work in video? What controls you use for manual "by wire" focusing? Why USM only?
I wish I had the opportunity to check myself, but reviews I read indicate that this "focus by wire" from 1DX and 5D3 aren't even half way towards manual "follow focus" functionality. Perhaps reviews were wrong, but I haven't seen follow focus accessories being replaced in 1DX and 5D3 setups.
I've read about touch control for aperture in 5D3. I imagine this could be done for 7D2 + touch control for focus.


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## MtAssholePhotography (Sep 3, 2014)

and this is the hyped 7D?

LOL......

what about the fantastic video features?


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 3, 2014)

KacperP said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > KacperP said:
> ...



I think you're making more of this than warranted. It's not a follow focus. 'Focus by wire' = electronic MF is the way some lenses are designed. Electronic MF just means when you turn the focus ring on the lens, instead of driving the focus group physically, turning the ring drives an electronic actuator that signals the autofocus motor to move the focus group. That means electronic MF needs power from the camera to focus. A few USM lenses and all STM lenses are electronic MF. 

The 'feature' listed in this spec list is merely a setting to disable electronic MF (on those few lenses that use it), if desired. The setting only applies if one of those few lenses is mounted. 

On all bodies, setting the AF/MF switch on the lens to MF turns off the electronic MF. On a couple of bodies, and soon the 7DII/X based on this rumor, you can use the camera menu to do the same thing. Even if AF is turned on, moving the focus ring would do nothing. Search the 1D X or 5DIII manual for "lens electronic".


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## pknight (Sep 3, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> pknight said:
> 
> 
> > Can you provide some clarification about the meaning of "lens electronic MF"? Does MF here refer to manual focus or micro-focus? I have seen both meanings speculated about in another thread.
> ...



Thanks. It's too bad that MFA can't be automated in some fashion, especially since it can so easily be reset. The ML implementation of Dot-Tune works well, but it might be years before ML comes to the new camera, if at all.


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## pknight (Sep 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> CANONisOK said:
> 
> 
> > However, it would be sweet to see what Canon could do with a somewhat similar zoom range as the Tammy (something like 200-500mm, for example) that doesn't cost $12k. Maybe that's one we can look forward to seeing at Photokina 2020.
> ...



Well, I stop my Tamron down a fraction of a stop to f/8, and it is _very_ sharp at 600mm. I have had the 100-400 for years, and it is going up for sale. When a new 100-400 comes out I expect it to be priced north of $2500, which will only increase demand for the Tamron.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 4, 2014)

pknight said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > pknight said:
> ...



Try FoCal. Semi-auto for 5DIII/1DX (limitation is the Canon SDK), full auto for the newer 6D so hopefully for the 7DII/X.


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## CanonOregon (Sep 4, 2014)

I thought that 'release of NDA' seemed to far ahead of Photokina to be true. If PMA was any measure, it would be the weekday ahead of the show- too much time for a drop off of interest if too early.


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## sfunglee (Sep 4, 2014)

Hi all...

Could someone explain this for me? "f/8 on center point at least, could be on more points"

Basically the new 7DII/X not so attractive, just a "turbo" version of 70D... 
Think i should get ready for FF like 6D or 5DIII if when 7DII/X announced, hope the FF will drop...

thanks~


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 4, 2014)

sfunglee said:


> Could someone explain this for me? "f/8 on center point at least, could be on more points"



It can AF with an f/8 lens+TC combo (f/4 + 2x, f/5.6 + 1.4x), like the 1D X and 5DIII...either with just the center point or with a few more.


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## preppyak (Sep 4, 2014)

sfunglee said:


> Basically the new 7DII/X not so attractive, just a "turbo" version of 70D...
> Think i should get ready for FF like 6D or 5DIII if when 7DII/X announced, hope the FF will drop...


That's all the original 7D was, just a "turbo" version of the 60D (or rather, the 60D was a toned down 7D). Both those cameras sold incredibly well.


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## SecundumArtemRx (Sep 4, 2014)

> It looks like 3 new lenses are coming. Surprisingly we will not be seeing the announcement of the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS replacement, unless Canon does a “development” announcement.
> 
> *EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM Pancake
> EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM
> EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II*



I appreciate the rumors and constant updates heading into Photokina, but I am confused by the lack of lens information coming out of Canon's camp. I don't understand why there's fewer, pro-sumer L lenses being released this year. Furthermore, I had hoped Canon's marketing company would launch a refreshed 100-400 L II lens, as a flagship and something to market/pair with their impending 7D II sales.

At this rate, 2014 20*15* is looking like the year of the lens (pending developmental announcements).


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## dolina (Sep 4, 2014)

BTW the 7D is already more than 5 years old. That's old in technology terms. ;D


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

When this is all Canon has to show at Photokina it is a MAJOR letdown. 

The 7D MK2 looks like a camera that should be released 2 years ago.
Looking at the specs i see nothing that justifies the long waiting.

The rumor mill always told us it will be a fantastic Video camera.
Even Smartphones offer 4K recording, but no 4K in the 7D MK2?

Compared to other rumored products the Canon offerings look boring and unimaginative. 

You sure would expect something more from Canon.

IF Sony shows a 50MP camera canon looks even more like the conservative and boring company. 
No imagination, no risk. All they care about is Shareholder value i guess. 

I don´t care if Canon is the market leader. That gives me nothing.
I want Canon to be a innovative company.

This rumored stuff is just boring boring boring...


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## tayassu (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> When this is all Canon has to show at Photokina it is a MAJOR letdown.
> 
> The 7D MK2 looks like a camera that should be released 2 years ago.
> Looking at the specs i see nothing that justifies the long waiting.
> ...



To be clear, I'm not a Canon fanboy, but...
The only thing Nikon has been innovative with in the last few years is the sensor of the D800, and that is a Sony sensor... They are using the same AF system, of course a little tweaked, in all their higher-end cameras since the D3s... If you look at two comparative products by Canon and Nikon, lets say 6D and D610, on paper, the D610 looks amazing, the 6D rather unspectacular. But in real world, Canon always offers the better performing products. The only thing that the D610 beats the 6D in is AF in daylight and that is although it is a newer camera. If you look at the other brands, Pentax' AF is just not good... At last Sony... If you are offered a 5DIII and an A7R, which one do you take? The one with little better DR/more res and the lighter/smaller one or the better all-around camera with a professional AF that lives up to pro's expectations and amazing IQ as well? Also, would you buy into a lens system that is considered the best in the world or one that has only a few good lenses and that's because they are working with Zeiss? I'm just saying... Innovation is important, but Canon makes great all around products, there is nothing on the market to seriously compete with the 7DII... And they are not uninnovative... DPAF, Fisheye zoom, built-in-converters, the widest TS lens ever made... Think about it


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

> The only thing Nikon has been innovative with in the last few years is the sensor of the D800, and that is a Sony sensor... They are using the same AF system, of course a little tweaked, in all their higher-end cameras since the D3s...



Canon was using the 18MP sensor for ages.
You know we can find examples that way or the other way.



> But in real world, Canon always offers the better performing products. The only thing that the D610 beats the 6D in is AF in daylight and that is although it is a newer camera.



So the Nikon beats the Canon even with an old AF? 

I saw the D610 besting the 6D in many reviews so let´s say that is subjective. 



> Also, would you buy into a lens system that is considered the best in the world



Of course that is what Canon still makes attractive.
The lineup they build over the decades are a strong point for choosing Canon.
Thought the top products are out of reach for many and they still have no good ultrawide zoom. 

Canon can only hope it stays that way and Sony is unable to catch up in terms of lenses.



> DPAF, Fisheye zoom, built-in-converters, the widest TS lens ever made... Think about it



I have seen on sensor Phase Detection AF on other cameras before Canon.

Don´t get me wrong i don´t say Canon suddenly makes BAD cameras.
And the top products sure show some nice feature (Ethernet in the 1DX).

But those small updates in the Rebel line over the years and now the rumored 7D MK2 specs are unimpressiv. The 7D MK2 will be a solid camera no question. Will it be impressive.. no!

As a Canon user since the AE1 i want Canon to push the technology.

It was always told the 7D MK2 will be THE camera for video.
Now it looks like it will not even beat the GH4. 
And i bet we will see the GH5 long before Canon updates the 7D MK2.

So 3 years without 4K video?
As Videographer i would think hard about buying the 7D MK2.


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## tayassu (Sep 4, 2014)

I think, whether you are impressed by a camera or not is also a subjective thing. Everytime I pick my good old 7D up after using my father's 5DIII, I'm amazed by its IQ, I love the colors, the handling is the best I've ever seen, the noise is with RAW and Lr no problem... We have different approaches to what is impressive...
But I don't think the GH5 will be here before the 7DII nor have I said that Canon has no "flaws" (like the mentioned 18mp sensor), I just wanted to show that Canon is not the only one staying with old technologies


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

tayassu said:


> But I don't think the GH5 will be here before the 7DII nor have I said that Canon has no "flaws" (like the mentioned 18mp sensor), I just wanted to show that Canon is not the only one staying with old technologies



You got that wrong.
I said the GH5 will be here before Canon updates the 7D MK2 (aka 7D MKIII).

With smartphones and m43 cameras adding 4K i don´t get why Canon sticks to HD.
Well yes.. so they don´t cut into their cinema line. :

As a customer and amateur i don´t have to approve that.
I rather buy a GH4 for video then. And Canon gets no money at all.

After all that talk abot how great the 7D MK2 will be (especially for video) don´t you think (if the rumors are true) that many will be dissapointed?


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## sanj (Sep 4, 2014)

tayassu said:


> I think, whether you are impressed by a camera or not is also a subjective thing. Everytime I pick my good old 7D up after using my father's 5DIII, I'm amazed by its IQ, I love the colors, the handling is the best I've ever seen, the noise is with RAW and Lr no problem... We have different approaches to what is impressive...
> But I don't think the GH5 will be here before the 7DII nor have I said that Canon has no "flaws" (like the mentioned 18mp sensor), I just wanted to show that Canon is not the only one staying with old technologies



Subjective indeed!


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## sanj (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> When this is all Canon has to show at Photokina it is a MAJOR letdown.
> 
> The 7D MK2 looks like a camera that should be released 2 years ago.
> Looking at the specs i see nothing that justifies the long waiting.
> ...



Totally agree. Who cares if any company sells the most if their products lack spark.


----------



## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

sanj said:


> Gantz said:
> 
> 
> > When this is all Canon has to show at Photokina it is a MAJOR letdown.
> ...



Well i bought an older Porsche not a VW or Toyota. 

I don´t want a car that is good looking & fast but unreliable (so i did not buy a more exotic car) but as Porsche proves you can have both. 

All i want is Canon to take a little more risk and suprise us.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> ...they still have no good ultrawide zoom.



You're right...the new EF 16-35mm f/4L IS not a 'good' UWA zoom, it's an *excellent* UWA zoom. 




sanj said:


> Who cares if any company sells the most if their products lack spark.



The shareholders care...you know, those people to whom Canon has a legal obligation. 

As for products that 'lack spark', that's completely subjective. Their products spark enough interest to keep them the market leader...


----------



## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Gantz said:
> 
> 
> > ...they still have no good ultrawide zoom.
> ...



You may have a different view what a ultrawide zoom is.
But afaik an ultrawide zoom does not start at 16mm.

Ok after wikipedia it is, at least on FF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_wide_angle_lens

But it´s more like a 12-24mm i am talking about. 





> The shareholders care...you know, those people to whom Canon has a legal obligation.



And?
Why should i as customer care and defend Canon for that?

Maybe some day Canon decides to kill the camera biz as Sony has done with the TV biz. Are you fine with that too?


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## tayassu (Sep 4, 2014)

sanj said:


> tayassu said:
> 
> 
> > I think, whether you are impressed by a camera or not is also a subjective thing. Everytime I pick my good old 7D up after using my father's 5DIII, I'm amazed by its IQ, I love the colors, the handling is the best I've ever seen, the noise is with RAW and Lr no problem... We have different approaches to what is impressive...
> ...


I'm not saying the 5DIII is not better than the 7D, but after using a 2 year-old FF sensor, I'm amazed what results come out of an 5 year-old APS-C sensor


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## tayassu (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Gantz said:
> ...



Who has got a decent 12-24, if I may ask? Sigma? ;D


----------



## Lawliet (Sep 4, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> As for products that 'lack spark', that's completely subjective. Their products spark enough interest to keep them the market leader...



Sounds eeriely familiar to the talk about Nokia. Could even be a verbatim quote...


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

tayassu said:


> Who has got a decent 12-24, if I may ask? Sigma? ;D



Oh i would be happy with a 14-24mm too. 

Just thought Canon could up the ante a bit

http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/447-nikkor_afs_1424_28_ff?start=2




> Sounds eeriely familiar to the talk about Nokia. Could even be a verbatim quote



Rest on your laurels.


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## Ruined (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> tayassu said:
> 
> 
> > But I don't think the GH5 will be here before the 7DII nor have I said that Canon has no "flaws" (like the mentioned 18mp sensor), I just wanted to show that Canon is not the only one staying with old technologies
> ...



Oh, this is a very, very simple answer.

Regardless of what the TV manufacturers wish you would believe, *4K is a gimmick* for every environment *except a large commercial theater*. It is a way to try and sell consumers another piece of electronic equipment with exciting specifications that has no benefit.

Given the eye's resolving power and the average distance people sit from a TV, you need a bare minimum of 120" screen size to even physically see any difference at all - and even in that case, the difference is minute that would rarely be detected. In reality, 4k is only useful for large commercial theaters which have screen sizes many times that size.

So, going back to your answer, why does an under $2000 APS-C professional camera not have 4k? Well, most likely because if someone is filming something for a large commercial theater they are going to use something a bit better than a $2000 APS-C DSLR; if the filmmaker does use an APS-C DSLR because quality is not a priority, then obviously 4k doesn't matter either. So, Canon is simply focusing on putting out a product with features that will actually be used by professionals in this price bracket, i.e. sports and birding. 4K would go unused by a professional in this type of camera.

And, why do smartphones and Panasonics have 4k? Because it is a gimmick feature they can try to lure consumers to their product with, even if it has no benefit to that consumer in any application they could possibly use it in - except possibly that Panasonic could further profit by selling you a 4K tv so you can display your videos in native 4K (that in reality looks no better than 1080p even in a home theater). Still, with some juicy marketing the consumer will think they have the next best thing and revel that they did their research to get the latest and greatest technology; they will think that they got this great new feature even the expensive 7D2 does not have! Unfortunately for that consumer, they were duped.


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## Marauder (Sep 4, 2014)

Lawliet said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > As for products that 'lack spark', that's completely subjective. Their products spark enough interest to keep them the market leader...
> ...



"Spark" is a relative term. A brand new 65 point AF with all cross-type points is market-leading and it's the feature that "sparks" for me. I don't give a rat's furry behind about 4k video. I do understand how video shooters are disappointed, but I'd say that to imply the product is going to fail because it's not targeted at your market is narrow minded. The camera is clearly being aimed at the wildlife/action/sport photographer and Canon is wisely giving us the features that will "spark" for us.


----------



## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Gantz said:
> 
> 
> > tayassu said:
> ...



I agree about 4K TV´s under 60-70" are useless.
But it does not have to be 120 inch.

http://www.cnet.com/news/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/







But it is not a question what makes sense for YOU and what does not. 

Canon will not drop the 4K cinema line just because you think 4K is nonsense, right?

On the other side, other brands offer 4K in consumer products. It´s a fact.

So why does Canon not? 
Will someone please bring the "4K video will be expensive" argument now. :

I would be happy to be able to extract 4K stills from my videos! Extremely happy! 
Even when i don´t have a 70 inch 4K TV yet.


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## Ruined (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > Gantz said:
> ...



Canon won't drop the 4K cinema line because those cameras are actually used by professionals that will play in commercial theaters. The Canon cinema line cameras have the ergonomics, features, and quality that makes sense for a commercial movie, while the 7D2 will not.

Yes, other brands do offer 4K for consumers - as it is a fairly easy gimmick to sell people on even if it has no benefit.

So I think you answered your own question; the 7D2 is designed to be a professional camera, not a consumer camera. Professionals will not use 4k video on the 7D2, they will go with a Canon cinema, red 4k, or equivalent because those cameras have the ergonomics, features, and quality for a commercial film. On the other hand, consumers may buy a 4K device because of the marketing; thus you see non-professional consumer products including the feature as a marketing upsell. No more, no less.

Also, excellent source you quoted there with the chart - the incredibly well known expert Carlton Bale aka "random wordpress guy with a blog who likes Excel". lol. Joe Kane of DVE backs up my 120" statement, he is a bit more of a trusted source I think... And cnet in a discussion about professional equipment? Really? Are you going to post Consumer Electronics' thoughts as a source next? 

If they have you sold on thinking your next 70" TV is really going to show the 4K difference, by all means I do not mean to tell you how to spend your money as a consumer. But the 7D2 is a professional camera, I would prefer Canon budgets it so that its features are geared towards professionals and not whiz-bang consumer features that have no use other than ticking a marketing checkbox.

Joe Kane: 4K requires 1.8 * picture height maximum seating distance to start seeing the 4K difference, meaning for your 70" example you must be seated *at most* 5.1 feet away from the screen to see any difference with 4k!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM-_Fv5h6sc

Without burning out your retinas from sitting so close to the screen, realistically you need around 120". In an interview with AVS, Joe Kane specifically stated that 120" is the recommended minimum size to start seeing the 4K difference (see 24:45):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqhA3iIHm4


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Gantz said:
> ...



By convention, ultrawide angle is a focal length shorter than the short dimension of the sensor, so anything wider than 24mm on FF; wide angle is 24-35mm. 16-35, 17-40 are ultrawide zooms by the standard definition. It seems you have a different definition than everyone else. 

Also, while I assumed you meant a rectilinear UWA zoom, Canon also has the excellent (unique and innovative, too) 8-15mm fisheye zoom.


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## rowlandw (Sep 4, 2014)

New battery? Why not the battery for the current 7D and 6D? Why does Canon make slight variations of batteries within the same families of cameras (I can't use my s90 battery in my s100)? It wouldn't be to make money on unnecessary battery/charger purchases, would it?


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Gantz said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I have edited my post long before you made this one .. why do you quote the old?
Tyring to gain a point?



Gantz said:


> You may have a different view what a ultrawide zoom is.
> But afaik an ultrawide zoom does not start at 16mm.
> 
> Ok after wikipedia it is, at least on FF.
> ...


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

Ruined said:


> So I think you answered your own question; the 7D2 is designed to be a professional camera, not a consumer camera. Professionals will not use 4k video on the 7D2, they will go with a Canon cinema, red 4k, or equivalent because those cameras have the ergonomics, features, and quality for a commercial film. On the other hand, consumers may buy a 4K device because of the marketing; thus you see non-professional consumer products including the feature as a marketing upsell. No more, no less.



The 5D MK2 was used by professional filmmaker, so what makes you so sure the 7D MK2 would not? 

The GH4 is used by professionals.

And what about extracting still frames?

Are you actually doing Video or your arguing purely from a photographers viewpoint?


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## Lawliet (Sep 4, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Yes, other brands do offer 4K for consumers - as it is a fairly easy gimmick to sell people on even if it has no benefit.



You're forgetting how bad for example canons HD video is in terms of actual detail retention. An artefact of the whole reading only parts of the sensor thing.
Even if you don't have/take advantage of a 4K-device for output rescaling the footage will get it closer to actual 4:4:4 without unwarrented blur for common fullHD.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 4, 2014)

rowlandw said:


> New battery? Why not the battery for the current 7D and 6D? Why does Canon make slight variations of batteries within the same families of cameras (I can't use my s90 battery in my s100)? It wouldn't be to make money on unnecessary battery/charger purchases, would it?



My guess, based on the name and Canon's history of adding an "N" to the end of a battery name is that this battery will be compatible with the older version, and all of this is to comply with new safety rules in Japan on the charger and battery.


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Also, excellent source you quoted there with the chart - the incredibly well known expert Carlton Bale aka "random wordpress guy with a blog who likes Excel"... lol.



Yeah well we all know you are the great expert. 8)

http://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/

Who are you? :
It´s so easy to post as anonymous on internet forums disregarding others, isn´t it?




> And cnet in a discussion about professional equipment? Really?



Actually read it before building an opinion, will you?

You can quote and repeat other peoples thoughts and findings better than anyone on the internet im sure about that (and impressed). Still you should read them first.

Be it 120 inch and not 70 inch that it becomes visible.. so what?

Still doesn´t changes a thing about the fact that i can not extract 4K stills from a 7D MK2 video.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 4, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Also, while I assumed you meant a rectilinear UWA zoom, Canon also has the excellent (unique and innovative, too) 8-15mm fisheye zoom.



I think they messed that one up. When Pentax did a zoom fisheye for full-frame, it was a 17-28. When they did it for crop (also available as a Tokina), it was a 10-17.

The Canon is basically a circular fish and a full-frame fish in one lens for full-frame. I have no need of such a thing. For crop, it's more interesting as it's more of a full-frame fish to a rectilinear (with defishing) ultrawide. That's what I actually wanted, but for full-frame. So, to me, it should have been something like 15-25. As it is, it's too slow, too wide, and too expensive to be interesting to this fish lover, so I kept my (at the time) $370 optically excellent Sigma 15mm/2.8 fisheye.


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## Don Haines (Sep 4, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> rowlandw said:
> 
> 
> > New battery? Why not the battery for the current 7D and 6D? Why does Canon make slight variations of batteries within the same families of cameras (I can't use my s90 battery in my s100)? It wouldn't be to make money on unnecessary battery/charger purchases, would it?
> ...


New battery, slightly better capacity.... You can use the old LP-E6 in the camera.

When you consider that the 5D2, 5D3, 6D, 7D, 60D, and 70D all use the same battery, I would not complain about slight variations in batteries among their DSLRs


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## Lawliet (Sep 4, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> New battery, slightly better capacity.... You can use the old LP-E6 in the camera.


And an opportunity to mess with 3rd party products - a few angles in the smart communication, if we take the ink cardridges as a reference.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> I have edited my post long before you made this one .. why do you quote the old?
> Tyring to gain a point?



I quoted your post, start a reply, I finished it a while later. Sorry, but life happens.


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Gantz said:
> 
> 
> > I have edited my post long before you made this one .. why do you quote the old?
> ...



And i thought you live here..


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## heptagon (Sep 4, 2014)

4k for recording is not the same as 4k for playback. 

Just compare mushy compressed 1080p with RAW 1080p. Having the option of using 4k for recording, then cropping (e.g. stabilization) and downscaling the compressed version of the video stream would be a very sensible option in many cases to produce high quality 1080p. So, no, it is not only a gimmick for people who know what they do with video.


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

heptagon said:


> 4k for recording is not the same as 4k for playback.
> 
> Just compare mushy compressed 1080p with RAW 1080p. Having the option of using 4k for recording, then cropping (e.g. stabilization) and downscaling the compressed version of the video stream would be a very sensible option in many cases to produce high quality 1080p. So, no, it is not only a gimmick for people who know what they do with video.



+1

And again, i have to stress it, i can´t count how often i wish i could extract high-res frames from video footage.

After all the "7D MK2 will be the video monster" rumors this is disappointing.


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## Lawliet (Sep 4, 2014)

heptagon said:


> So, no, it is not only a gimmick for people who know what they do with video.



Let's not forget chromakeying - greenscreen is well within the reach of student&hobby productions - getting rid of those halos is so much easier if you're allowed to have masks without a multiple pixel wide blur.

Would the 8MP-sensor in the C100/C300 be in there if aquiring that additional data wouldn't make sense in the first place? The very same rationale applies to other cameras independent of the shell they're housed in.


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## NancyP (Sep 4, 2014)

Won't it be nice when the announcement is made? Then we can be rude to each other over actual specs, not just imagined specs.


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## Canon1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Gantz said:


> heptagon said:
> 
> 
> > 4k for recording is not the same as 4k for playback.
> ...



I'm not a video guy and don't quite understand this one. If you are shooting at say 30fps (or whatever) wouldn't an extracted still have a relatively slow shutter speed of say 1/30 sec or something only marginally faster? An extracted image would only work if it was pulled out of a static moment in the scene at the same time the camera is held extremely stable. This is my assumption and may well be incorrect.... I just assume that the frame "shutter speed" so to speak would be too slow to provide much benefit as a single frame still image.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 4, 2014)

> I'm not a video guy and don't quite understand this one. If you are shooting at say 30fps (or whatever) wouldn't an extracted still have a relatively slow shutter speed of say 1/30 sec or something only marginally faster?



Video is often shot at "180°" shutter, which means at a shutter speed equal to twice the frame rate. So, 30fps video would be shot at 1/60th. But this is done often, not always, and it's certainly not required. You can shoot 30fps at 1/4000th if you want to. The video tends to look jumpy but the stills have much lower motion blur.

This is why shooting video and expecting to extract stills isn't a great idea unless you're planning one or the other uses for the video. If you plan to use the video for video, shoot at slow shutter speeds and wider framing. If you plan to extract stills, use faster shutter speeds and tighter framing.


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## Canon1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> I'm not a video guy and don't quite understand this one. If you are shooting at say 30fps (or whatever) wouldn't an extracted still have a relatively slow shutter speed of say 1/30 sec or something only marginally faster?



Video is often shot at "180°" shutter, which means at a shutter speed equal to twice the frame rate. So, 30fps video would be shot at 1/60th. But this is done often, not always, and it's certainly not required. You can shoot 30fps at 1/4000th if you want to. The video tends to look jumpy but the stills have much lower motion blur.

This is why shooting video and expecting to extract stills isn't a great idea unless you're planning one or the other uses for the video. If you plan to use the video for video, shoot at slow shutter speeds and wider framing. If you plan to extract stills, use faster shutter speeds and tighter framing.
[/quote]

Thanks for the explanation. So basically the ability to pull high res still from a video feed is really not as exciting as it sounds. You are best to choose either slow frame speeds for smooth video or shoot photos if you want great stills. Maybe for some there is a balance in the middle where video is not compromised, yet frame capture speeds are fast enough to provide a quality still. I'm assuming that there is also a balance between buffer clearance and memory capacity with all of this as well.


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

Well as he said it depends on what you do.
A telephoto lens is not bad because you prefer wideangel motivs. 

And the ability to pull high-res frames beats the opposit all the time.
Nothing comes for free that´s sure.

Google the topic and you will find many examples where it worked very well.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 4, 2014)

Canon1 said:


> Thanks for the explanation. So basically the ability to pull high res still from a video feed is really not as exciting as it sounds. You are best to choose either slow frame speeds for smooth video or shoot photos if you want great stills.



Well, that depends. Even 4k frames are only 8MP and 16:9 aspect ratio. Pulling a 4:5 aspect ratio still from those is going to leave you with something like a 5.8MP still - not bad, but not great compared to an actual still. It's also probably going to be pulled from a pretty highly compressed source (video), not a less compressed (JPEG) or raw source. However, you might be able to shoot them at 30fps which is something even a 1Dx can't come close to doing.

So, it depends.


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## Gantz (Sep 4, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Canon1 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the explanation. So basically the ability to pull high res still from a video feed is really not as exciting as it sounds. You are best to choose either slow frame speeds for smooth video or shoot photos if you want great stills.
> ...



Right and if you in NEED of pulling a frame... you know a blurry picture is still better than no picture at all.

Would i prefer to have a perfect still, sure.


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## unfocused (Sep 4, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Won't it be nice when the announcement is made? Then we can be rude to each other over actual specs, not just imagined specs.



You win best comment of the day!


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## cnardo (Sep 4, 2014)

+1


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## Marauder (Sep 4, 2014)

unfocused said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > Won't it be nice when the announcement is made? Then we can be rude to each other over actual specs, not just imagined specs.
> ...



LOL :


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## Light Sculptor (Sep 4, 2014)

Made me laugh too!

If the 400 DO II is for real, I can't wait to hear about it. I have the current Mk 1 version.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Sep 4, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Oh, this is a very, very simple answer.
> 
> Regardless of what the TV manufacturers wish you would believe, *4K is a gimmick* for every environment *except a large commercial theater*. It is a way to try and sell consumers another piece of electronic equipment with exciting specifications that has no benefit.
> 
> ...




You think professionals who capture in 4k always intend to deliver in 4k?
Aren't you aware of the framing abilities 4k offers if you deliver in 1080p?
Aren't you aware of the sharpness, noise, and color space benefits of downsampling 4k to 1080p?
You think professionals would not use 4k if it were in the 7d2? 
You think professionals didn't use the 5d and 7d?
You think professionals aren't using the GH4? 
You think professionals aren't using the A7s? 
You think professionals aren't using the Black Magic 4K Camera?
*But most of all, you think professionals don't want something from Canon that can compete with the performance of the above cameras at a similar price-point?!?!*

Maybe you think the only video "professionals" are those working in Hollywood on giant blockbusters. Just as the only "professional" photogs are those shooting for NatGeo and Sports Illustrated, right?


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## Lee Jay (Sep 4, 2014)

We had a pro videographer for a week-long shoot at work a few weeks ago. Camera choice? 7D. He did have an assistant who was using a RED Scarlet.


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## Tugela (Sep 4, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Gantz said:
> 
> 
> > tayassu said:
> ...



Have you ever actually watched real 4K footage on a 4K display??? (and I am not talking up the upscaled HD movies they play on 4K TV display sets in stores). I keep hearing this nonsense that "you can't see the difference". And most of it is apparently from people who haven't actually bothered to look.

I have a 1440p monitor, and even on that there is a clear and obvious difference in video quality watching real 4K footage on it compared to corresponding HD footage. There is simply no comparison at all, once you shoot in 4K you can't go back to HD because it looks so crude.

Investing the 7D2 in HD technology rather than 4K means that it is being tied to the past rather than being a tool for the future. People are going to have this thing for 3 years, and in that time even basic point and shoots will be recording much better video because of that. If the 7D2 only has HD modes, the video function is not a serious feature of the camera.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 4, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Given the eye's resolving power and the average distance people sit from a TV, you need a bare minimum of 120" screen size to even physically see any difference at all - and even in that case, the difference is minute that would rarely be detected. In reality, 4k is only useful for large commercial theaters which have screen sizes many times that size.



1) You obviously haven't done the math.
2) The "size" that matters is the angle your display subtends in your field of vision. The computer screen I'm presently typing on subtends a larger angle in my vision than the big screen in a movie theater when I'm sitting about 1/3 of the way back from the screen.
3) Even if what you said were true, which it isn't, what would prevent me from just sitting closer?
4) Even if I don't deliver in 4k, 4k capture would make it far easier to deliver sharp, stabilized and cropped full-HD than full-HD capture does.


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## NancyP (Sep 4, 2014)

Seriously, I was out shooting with the 60D last weekend, and it really is a wonderful camera for many purposes. I look forward to the 7D2, hoping that it will have 7D build quality and updated AF, fps rate, big buffer, and decent IQ at ISO 800 and 1600 (better than the 60D, at any rate - I don't expect it to have a 6D grade high-ISO sensor).

We should enjoy the cameras we have, look forward to updating features we need or want, and be polite to fellow readers and commenters.


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## tayassu (Sep 4, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Seriously, I was out shooting with the 60D last weekend, and it really is a wonderful camera for many purposes. I look forward to the 7D2, hoping that it will have 7D build quality and updated AF, fps rate, big buffer, and decent IQ at ISO 800 and 1600 (better than the 60D, at any rate - I don't expect it to have a 6D grade high-ISO sensor).
> 
> We should enjoy the cameras we have, look forward to updating features we need or want, and be polite to fellow readers and commenters.



You're right a 1000 times.  I apologize if I was in any way too harsh during the discussion. :-\
I love my 7D exactly as you love your 60D, they are great cameras!


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## kevl (Sep 5, 2014)

Here's hoping these are not the actual specs for the 7DII I was hoping to put this body in my bag as a second camera.


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## Etienne (Sep 5, 2014)

kevl said:


> Here's hoping these are not the actual specs for the 7DII I was hoping to put this body in my bag as a second camera.



I'll be interested if it turns out to be a mini 1Dx


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## Canon1 (Sep 5, 2014)

I wonder when it will be officially announced. Tomorrow as initially rumored or if Canon can successfully hold out until the 15th. 

Any news CR guy?


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## ahsanford (Sep 5, 2014)

Etienne said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > Here's hoping these are not the actual specs for the 7DII I was hoping to put this body in my bag as a second camera.
> ...



That's been the $64,000 question for the last year. Is this going to be a $1500-1700 camera many expect it to be or is it going to be some crop pro beast for wildlife and birding for north of $2k? Is Canon going to make a top of the line 'reach camera'?

The sensor, the focusing system, the burst rate / buffer size and build quality will determine that. If you believe the current CR specs, the burst rate and AF system, F/8 on the center, etc. would imply this will be a very high end rig. But a pop-up flash does not scream 'built for the tundra'. And we know next to nothing about the sensor.

So the jury is still out in my book.

- A


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## jrista (Sep 5, 2014)

Lawliet said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > As for products that 'lack spark', that's completely subjective. Their products spark enough interest to keep them the market leader...
> ...



Indeed... :\


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## Canonicon (Sep 5, 2014)

kevl said:


> Here's hoping these are not the actual specs for the 7DII I was hoping to put this body in my bag as a second camera.



I bet these are the real specs.
It would be typicall for Canon (aka Boring).

Compare that to these specs:





> - 28 MP APS-C CMOS Sensor (ISOCELL tech)
> - DRIMe Image Signal Processor
> - ISO 100-51200
> - 15 fps with tracking.
> ...



I know there is the telephoto lens problem for Samsung.
But for the body that looks pretty good on paper.

Canons hallmark is not innovation, it´s solid performance. 
That´s fine but also boring.

People say Canon as market leader does not have to push the boundries.
Can be conservative in it´s position.

Well we have seen how that worked out for other market leaders in the past.

I only hope the 7D MK2 does not show this ugly noise i hate on the 7D.
Some images are perfectly fine and then you shoot at the same ISO in another situation and you think it´s a completely different camera. 
I never had such issues with my Canon FF cameras. 
I don´t speak about the FF having less noise, it´s that the 7D seems to be unpredictable in some situations. 
Some skys look fine at ISO 800 and the other day it looks like sprinkeld with big sandkorns.


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## Novahawk (Sep 5, 2014)

As the Canon 7D was my most trusted, reliable, consistent camera ever for what seems like a lifetime (can't say the same for my 5dIII), Canon could produce a 7DII with only better ISO performance and otherwise the same specs and I would still insta-buy that camera


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## dadgummit (Sep 5, 2014)

NancyP said:


> We should enjoy the cameras we have, look forward to updating features we need or want, and be polite to fellow readers and commenters.



ok now, that is crazy talk! ;D

I would be 100% happy with the posted specs if they can clean up the Mid ISO noise. My copy of the 7D is ok at ISO 400, turns pretty bad at 800 and totally un-usable at 1600 on up. If they can make a clean ISO 800 and a usable 1600 I would be very happy. 

I know that tollerance of noise is different person to person so to compare I guess I can say that I feel that the noise on the 5D3 is clean at 3200 usable at 6400 and too much for my taste above that. 


All this being said if the sensor's noise does not improve I do not see any use for a 24mm f2.8 for crop-only cameras. For indoor photos f2.8 is not fast enough to go without a flash unless you are at 1600-3200 and if you are going to put a flash on the camera all of the size advantage is gone. you may as well stick with the kit 18-55.


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## ritholtz (Sep 6, 2014)

What are chances of Canon introducing cheaper FF (Rebel FF) camera with new lens EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 6, 2014)

ritholtz said:


> What are chances of Canon introducing cheaper FF (Rebel FF) camera with new lens EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM.



Pretty low, IMHO. A 6D is a full-frame 60D, so I'd like to see a full-frame 70D (6D II?).


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## ULFULFSEN (Sep 6, 2014)

Canon will have a few of the white ones to try at Photokina... that is the most interesting part i guess. At least when it comes to Canon.

A few FPS junkies will like the 7D II im sure and will be impressed by it´s 10 FPS.
While other companys will show DSLR cameras that shoot 10-15 FPS with better IQ and mirrorless Cameras who shot around 20 FPS.

But then Canon has a nice Lens collection and that saves the day, again.
Even without a long awaited 100-400mm or a fast UWZ.

Oh and there is finally a 1" Powershot that maybe can keep up with it´s competition. Thought it´s possible it will be 2/3 inch and the rumors are wrong.


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## bowtiez (Sep 8, 2014)

Wonder how much the 400 f4. I'm hoping for a price within reach (3-4k).


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## gwflauto (Sep 8, 2014)

When will we see the announcements from Canon for photokina?


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## MichaelHodges (Sep 8, 2014)

Year of the Lens ©


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## BL (Sep 8, 2014)

bowtiez said:


> Wonder how much the 400 f4. I'm hoping for a price within reach (3-4k).



The current 400mm f4 DO is ~$6500

keep hoping!


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## Steve (Sep 8, 2014)

bowtiez said:


> Wonder how much the 400 f4. I'm hoping for a price within reach (3-4k).



Haha good one


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## xps (Sep 9, 2014)

Does anybody know, when professional stores get some information about the coming Canon products at Photokina? Is there an event before September 16?


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## xps (Sep 9, 2014)

bowtiez said:


> Wonder how much the 400 f4. I'm hoping for a price within reach (3-4k).



The old 400 DO IS is about 6800€ in Europe. Let us rumor: 7500-8000€ for the successor


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## funkboy (Sep 9, 2014)

http://photorumors.com/2014/09/07/new-canon-eos-7d-mark-ii-book-shows-up-in-japan/


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## Mitch.Conner (Sep 10, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> Year of the Lens ©



You can't copyright that. ??? lol


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## Mitch.Conner (Sep 10, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> Act444 said:
> 
> 
> > preppyak said:
> ...



Why can't they offer all of them? The more options the better, no?


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## pjx (Sep 11, 2014)

My real interest in this camera is only if the firmware can be replaced with magic lantern.


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