# Sony a6500 Announced



## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2016)

Sony steps on the gas in the APS-C mirrorless space:
https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/06/sony-reveals-the-a6500-its-new-e-mount-mirrorless-flagship/

(Paging AvTvM to say 'Stupid Canon' in 3, 2, 1...)

- A


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## Dylan777 (Oct 6, 2016)

Looks rock solid. M5 $979 Vs A6500 $1399 = willing to pay the different?

Can't wait to see A9 specs, rumors saying 70MP @ 20fps?


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2016)

Dylan777 said:


> Looks rock solid. M5 $979 Vs A6500 $1399 = willing to pay the different?
> 
> Can't wait to see A9 specs, rumors saying 70MP @ 20fps?



Non-FF mirrorless prices are all over the place. Sony can be reasonable, Canon is inflated and then the price crashes down, Fuji is pricey as hell, Panasonic's new GH5 is sitting around $1900 and the crazy new Olympus E-M1 Mark II is rumored to be announced for $2,200!

Said another way:_ m43 rigs are costing more than a Pentax K1, Canon 6D or Nikon D610!_ 

- A


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## ritholtz (Oct 6, 2016)

Dylan777 said:


> Looks rock solid. M5 $979 Vs A6500 $1399 = willing to pay the different?
> 
> Can't wait to see A9 specs, rumors saying 70MP @ 20fps?


They addressed all the complaints from a6300 (touch screen and ibis ). Not sure why they didn't release a6300 like this. Still they are not updating any of their kit lens to complement camera release. I wish, they release few kits lens like STM lens. Hopefully prices will come down. Sorry for all those bought a6300. Sony kinda kept it tight to see a6300 for past few months.


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2016)

ritholtz said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks rock solid. M5 $979 Vs A6500 $1399 = willing to pay the different?
> ...



Yeah, the release confuses me to some extent. Is this not just an a6300 + IBIS + touchscreen? Fps, resolution, AF system seems all the same.

And it's only 7 months since the a6300 came out. Is this their new flagship APS-C to sit atop the a6300, or did they just make a 'D610'-like course correction and replace the a6300 after such a short time?

- A


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## 9VIII (Oct 6, 2016)

Other than the buffer depth, this really feels like what the A6300 should have been.
If IBIS is expensive to produce then the price is justified, but the A6300 really should have had a touchscreen.

This product is just another step in Sony "maturing" as a camera maker.
Of course, given the D610 analogy you could say the same about Nikon...


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## IglooEater (Oct 6, 2016)

Yup, basically Sony is finishing their products after release, and then re-releasing it as a new model. Sony is probably also aware of bugs, errors, or other problems that we know nothing about. Maybe the overheating issues are fixed, who knows. Somewhat like Nikon with the d610, the d810, and a number of their lower end models.


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> Yup, basically Sony is finishing their products after release, and then re-releasing it as a new model. Sony is probably also aware of bugs, errors, or other problems that we know nothing about. Maybe the overheating issues are fixed, who knows. Somewhat like Nikon with the d610, the d810, and a number of their lower end models.



Right -- wasn't the a6300 a 4K rig 'in name only'? (It had some heating problems, ya?)

I'm not knocking this a6500 release, mind you -- I'm just asking if the a6500 is: 


A clear top dog to sit above the a6300 and be sold alongside it
A fast course correction to the A6300 that is intended to replace it (think D610 vs. D600)
A very awkward slice of both of the above (think D810 vs. D800E vs. D800)

Just curious what all of your thoughts are. 

- A


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## Dylan777 (Oct 6, 2016)

ritholtz said:


> Dylan777 said:
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> 
> > Looks rock solid. M5 $979 Vs A6500 $1399 = willing to pay the different?
> ...



You shouldn't. There is a large gap between the two, including the price tags.


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## Dylan777 (Oct 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ritholtz said:
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> > Dylan777 said:
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A6300 is not a defected product


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## WillT (Oct 7, 2016)

Wow those are some impressive stats on paper. Lets see how this will compares to the M5 in the real world.


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## ritholtz (Oct 7, 2016)

Dylan777 said:


> ahsanford said:
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> > ritholtz said:
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I want cheaper version of a6500 not a6300/a6000. Same sensor and ibit but with less buffer, focus points and fps.


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## AvTvM (Oct 7, 2016)

*Sony A6500*

how i wish that thing would not be from SOny, but from Canon with Sony sensor and Canon EF-M mount up front!

Sony finally added a touch screen and new menu system obviously copied from Canon. They forgot to put a front whell on it though. But 5-axis IBIS working in tandem with IS lenses is rather nice. And the compactb range-finder style form factor with EVF in top left corner is just so much better than the stupidMini-DSLR design of the Canon EOS M5. And i do not care for Sony E lenses and their absurd lens prices at all. 

http://camerasize.com/compare/#691,684


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> I'm not knocking this a6500 release, mind you -- I'm just asking if the a6500 is:
> 
> 
> A clear top dog to sit above the a6300 and be sold alongside it
> ...



Given the 40% MSRP premium, I'd lean towards the first bullet.


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## ritholtz (Oct 7, 2016)

*Re: Sony A6500*



AvTvM said:


> how i wish that thing would not be from SOny, but from Canon with Sony sensor and Canon EF-M mount up front!
> 
> Sony finally added a touch screen and new menu system obviously copied from Canon. They forgot to put a front whell on it though. But 5-axis IBIS working in tandem with IS lenses is rather nice. And the compactb range-finder style form factor with EVF in top left corner is just so much better than the stupidMini-DSLR design of the Canon EOS M5. And i do not care for Sony E lenses and their absurd lens prices at all.
> 
> http://camerasize.com/compare/#691,684


They need to upgrade their kit lens (16-50mm and 55-250mm) with same quality like STM versions. They have much better prime lens lineup I think (Sigma 30mm 1.4 version is cheaper with E mount). Then I can switch to Sony to save size and get better sensor, features per price. Why do they design grip like a square strip instead of rounded?


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## xps (Oct 7, 2016)

Dylan777 said:


> Looks rock solid. M5 $979 Vs A6500 $1399 = willing to pay the different?
> 
> Can't wait to see A9 specs, rumors saying 70MP @ 20fps?


Yes, Sony fanboys rumor these specs. And an superfast AF system with an equal AF system like the A99 Version II has. I´ve focussed with the A99 Version II and the AF was really fast. It seems to be covering an area between the 6D and 5D IV. How many AF points are able to shoot at f8 did the assistant not know.
So, how many $$$$$$ will Sony want for it? Unspecific rumors say more than an 1DxII costs. If all specs are balanced, without significant stray-bullets and an good compatibility to Canon ... lenses, then this body will be sold well. Very very well. Just see an wildlife photographer who is able to crop and crop and crop its pictures and still has big files.
Wait a moment: If...yes, if the service gets better....


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## tcmatthews (Oct 7, 2016)

*Re: Sony A6500*



ritholtz said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > how i wish that thing would not be from SOny, but from Canon with Sony sensor and Canon EF-M mount up front!
> ...



Agreed they were the worst lenses I have ever owned. Sold the 16-50 with the Nex6. The older 18-55 is the same image quality as the EOS M 18-55 and a much better kit lens. I gave the 55-210 to my parents. I wish the sony 20 pancake was reasonably priced. I bought the EOS M on fire cell for less than that lens. The Canons 22mm STM is fantastic for the price noting Sony has can touch it.


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## xps (Oct 7, 2016)

Dylan777 said:


> ahsanford said:
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> > ritholtz said:
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No it isn´t. The 6300 is an nice camera for the majority of the enthusiasts who do not want to go another step upwards. But it is questionable, if such a fast turn-over is good for Sonys image in coming years. Earlier modest prices let most accept an fast turn-over. But if you spend 3500$ most will be upset, if Sony releases an successor month later.... That is not Windows, where you get an bulletin day each half year. Especially, if there is no exchange-offer for the successor.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2016)

xps said:


> Yes, Sony fanboys rumor these specs. And an superfast AF system with an equal AF system like the A99 Version II has. I´ve focussed with the A99 Version II and the AF was really fast.



I suspect that's a pipe dream. On sensor PDAF isn't yet on par with dedicated PDAF.


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## xps (Oct 7, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> xps said:
> 
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> > Yes, Sony fanboys rumor these specs. And an superfast AF system with an equal AF system like the A99 Version II has. I´ve focussed with the A99 Version II and the AF was really fast.
> ...


I had no comparison to other cams, when I did so. But for me, it was fast. Maybe some of the forum members did so too and have an comparison with other brands.
Maybe it s not so fast, but if it is as fast as the 5DIII it would be great


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## AvTvM (Oct 7, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> I suspect that's a pipe dream. On sensor PDAF isn't yet on par with dedicated PDAF.



dream on. Next Sony (A9) AF will run circles around any mirrorslapper


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## Dylan777 (Oct 8, 2016)

WillT said:


> Wow those are some impressive stats on paper. Lets see how this will compares to the M5 in the real world.



I'll put my 1cent on A6500 bet


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## Tugela (Oct 8, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Sony steps on the gas in the APS-C mirrorless space:
> https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/06/sony-reveals-the-a6500-its-new-e-mount-mirrorless-flagship/
> 
> (Paging AvTvM to say 'Stupid Canon' in 3, 2, 1...)
> ...



This is a direct response to the competition posed by the EOS-M5.


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## AvTvM (Oct 8, 2016)

Tugela said:


> ahsanford said:
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> 
> > Sony steps on the gas in the APS-C mirrorless space:
> ...



Well, A6500 is what A6300 should have been from the start (IBIS + touchscreen + very good AF + 350 shot battery life). 

Just as Canon M3 should already have come with M5 specs. :


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## Tugela (Oct 8, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, Sony fanboys rumor these specs. And an superfast AF system with an equal AF system like the A99 Version II has. I´ve focussed with the A99 Version II and the AF was really fast.
> ...



It is just a matter of time. Processors continue to improve and once they are capable of handling more nodes at once they will be better. Dedicated AF systems such as those used on DSLRs have their limits, but on sensor detectors are just getting started. For them the sky is the limit.


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## raptor3x (Oct 8, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Dylan777 said:
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> > Looks rock solid. M5 $979 Vs A6500 $1399 = willing to pay the different?
> ...



Where did you hear $2200 for the E-M1ii? The only numbers I've seen are $1499 and $1699.


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## Tugela (Oct 8, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Tugela said:
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> > ahsanford said:
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Not really. The A6300 was released in response to competition as well, and the extra features may not have been ready at an engineering level at that point. Simply not releasing the A6300 at that time would have meant conceding market to competition, so they used what was practical at that point. 

The same argument applies to the EOS-M cameras. It is all driven by competition and what the engineers can do practically at any given point in time.

The same thing applies to the M5 btw.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 8, 2016)

xps said:


> 3kramd5 said:
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I don't doubt it, but it has off-sensor PDAF.



AvTvM said:


> 3kramd5 said:
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> > I suspect that's a pipe dream. On sensor PDAF isn't yet on par with dedicated PDAF.
> ...



Based on what, your hopes and dreams? Unless they have some new tech they have kept extremely close to the vest, I have zero expectations a mirrorless "A9" would outperform say a 1Dx2 or D5 or A992 (which has a mirror albeit one which doesn't slap) when it comes to autofocus. 



Tugela said:


> It is just a matter of time. Processors continue to improve and once they are capable of handling more nodes at once they will be better. Dedicated AF systems such as those used on DSLRs have their limits, but on sensor detectors are just getting started. For them the sky is the limit.



Maybe, if processing power can overcome the size and baseline disadvantage (dedicated AF sensors vs imaging pixels) and loss of light from CFA. Tech like DPAF can help somewhat with the former (it has yet to be shown whether sony can build DPAF sensors for its own use versus on contract with Samsung), but the latter is not insignificant. Perhaps a stacked sensor design could mitigate the filtering.


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## AvTvM (Oct 8, 2016)

Tugela said:


> Not really. The A6300 was released in response to competition as well, and the extra features may not have been ready at an engineering level at that point. Simply not releasing the A6300 at that time would have meant conceding market to competition, so they used what was practical at that point.
> The same argument applies to the EOS-M cameras. It is all driven by competition and what the engineers can do practically at any given point in time.
> The same thing applies to the M5 btw.



utterly ridiculous. Touchscreen DIsplays were invented 100 years ago or so and used in any number of Sony cameras prior to A6300. they could have stuck that thing into A6300, no problem. Same with IBIS. AF took a better processor/improved firmware, hardware. But all the rest could and should have been in 6300 already. 

Same for EOS M5 .. everything in it could easily have been in M3 ... 80D sensor was out a long time already. 

I am sick and tired of some people her always *excusing excusing excusing* those f*cking imaging corporations withholding functionality from their expensive products all the time. Nerfing and crippling all day long. While they may profit from it financially in the short term, because so many people are so stupid, it is not somethign we should accept or excuse as informed customers.


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## Ryananthony (Oct 8, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Tugela said:
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> 
> > Not really. The A6300 was released in response to competition as well, and the extra features may not have been ready at an engineering level at that point. Simply not releasing the A6300 at that time would have meant conceding market to competition, so they used what was practical at that point.
> ...



I am sick and tired of your posts


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## that1guyy (Oct 8, 2016)

It's funny how people are saying that Sony is "finishing" their cameras and just calling it something new and that they are releasing them too early, like Nikon.

But on the other hand, Canon waits several years before the next iteration of cameras, at least for some of the mid-high end stuff, and yet we don't see any leaps in technology. So essentially Sony adds the same amount of features in 7 months - 1.5 years that Canon can't even match in 3-5 years worth of development.


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## xps (Oct 8, 2016)

Ryananthony said:


> AvTvM said:
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> > Tugela said:
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Sir, Mr AvTvM is right in some points. As I heared from Canon workers, Canon would never have announced some features as fast, if other brands did not release some "splashing products".
They told us, there is an special departement, who calculates the necessary amount to earn an maximum of money. Canon´s managers job is to earn a maximum of money, nothing else. That is also correct this way.

So, it needs brands like Sony, who release a maximum of innovation, that an industrial marketleader is forced to react on innovative announcements. The A9 will be such an product, where Canon has to react on that. You can say, this is rubbish, but believe me, this body is such an announcement like the 5DII was, or the 5DsR. An big step forward. 
I´m not an Sony friend (bad service experience and fast product turn over that forces me (psychologically) to buy new stuff), but I hope the A9 will be an excepional body that gets a lot of buyers and happy wildlife photographers. So the giant Canon has to react on that. Maybe with an wildlife-optimized 5DsR.... or 3D body


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## Tugela (Oct 8, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > Not really. The A6300 was released in response to competition as well, and the extra features may not have been ready at an engineering level at that point. Simply not releasing the A6300 at that time would have meant conceding market to competition, so they used what was practical at that point.
> ...



It is still an engineering issue. If you need to respond to competition tomorrow, and your touch screen is not ready yet, you have to use what is ready. If you wait until your touchscreen is ready you may find that all of your potential customers have bought something else in the mean time.

The M3 was a stop gap release. That was pretty obvious from the specs. The M5 (although it obviously would not have been called that internally) was in development but not ready at that point. So they cobbled together a cosmetically improved version of the older cameras and released that instead. That made people who either owned the system or were interested in it know that Canon had not given up on it and were still in the game. It bought them time.

Incidentally, the M5 project had probably been stalled by the issues Canon have had in developing a hardware based 4K solution. I have no doubt that the original plan was to have an M5 that could shoot 4K ready for 2015 (along with similar DSLRs, starting in 2014). But delays in developing the Digic 7/DV5 family, followed by the poor thermal performance of those processors when doing 4K encoding, stalled development of the associated cameras, including the M5. That is why we have had to wait so long for many lines to update, and when they did they came with older generation processors. All of these newer cameras (5D4, 80D, M5 etc) were probably intended to have hardware encoded 4K capability, but since it turned out to not be feasible in this engineering cycle they were first delayed, and finally released with lesser capabilities (software based 4K or no 4K at all).


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## AvTvM (Oct 8, 2016)

re. Canon and EOS M3: it was definitely not a matter of "technological issues/availability of technical components"! 

Canon had the 80D sensor available. A (very good!) touch screen was available ever since the original EOS M. Regular (very good!) *EOS user interface / firmware* was fully available for many years. Instead, Canon consciously nerfed the M3 with a stupid Powershot interface! 

video/4k video is of no interest to me at all. But it is worthwhile noting that anybody else from lowly GoPro to Apple iPhones to Panasonic and Sony cameras can do 4K video for years now and even in the smallest possible packages. Only Canon and Nikon are obviously not able to pull it off. 

re A6500: Sony is too stupid to put one multifunctional, mode-sensitive wheel on front of their "flagship" APS-C camera and one in the back. They waste the ring around shutter button for ON/OFF switch. Major fail as fas as I am concerned. Canon hit it quite well on the M5. But unfortunately they decided to put a stupid hump on top just to give it "mini-DSLR" looks, believing American n00b buyers might like it better that way ... making it way too bulky.


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## Jopa (Oct 9, 2016)

This forum should be renamed to SAR Jr.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 19, 2016)

I read the DPR article on the A6500. It mirrors some of the comments here, for some users, it will be a upgrade, but worth $400 more?? 

I'm still interested in the M5 as a replacement for my G1X II, but need to test the ergonomics and the functionality.


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