# Cue the head spinning, The Canon EOS-1D X Mark III to be 20.1mp? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 7, 2019)

> Sometimes after we report something, it brings about some contradictory information soon after. Yesterday we reported that a source was “80% sure” than the Canon EOS-1D X Mark III would house a 24.x megapixel sensor.
> This is what makes the rumor mill fun.
> Shortly afterwards we were told by an anonymous source that the Canon EOS-1D X Mark III would actually sport a 20.1-megapixel sensor, which would mean it’s staying with about the same resolution as the EOS-1D X Mark II.  The source claimed to be “100% sure”.
> If any of our known sources could corroborate this information one way or another, we’d appreciate it.
> Remember, this a rumors site, contradictions in information happen a fair bit before the truth gets nailed down.



Continue reading...


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## tron (Nov 7, 2019)

Feel free to make it CR0... 

A rumor has to be plausible somehow (especially from an anonymous source)!


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## Eersel (Nov 7, 2019)

It is quite possible that both of these "sources" are correct. I wouldn't be shocked if there are a few different 1DxIII's prototypes out there sporting different sensors. 

The big question remains though.

As a betting man, I would look at 24.x sensor. There is a resolution war going on between Canon and Sony.


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## tron (Nov 7, 2019)

Eersel said:


> It is quite possible that both of these "sources" are correct. I wouldn't be shocked if there are a few different 1DxIII's prototypes out there sporting different sensors.
> 
> The big question remains though.
> 
> As a betting man, I would look at 24.x sensor. There is a resolution war going on between Canon and Sony.


Yes this is possible.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 7, 2019)

I'd call BS on that one, if the person is in the know I'd say it is a prototype with the old sensor in the new body.


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## richperson (Nov 7, 2019)

Probably not true, but if it is, it better have amazing high ISO performance (which would be fine), but getting a few more FPS would not make it worth the upgrade.


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## bitcars (Nov 7, 2019)

It's only 100% that the prototype seen by this source is 20.1 mpx, which 99% confirms that Canon is testing with different sensors in the field.


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## whothafunk (Nov 7, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I'd call BS on that one, if the person is in the know I'd say it is a prototype with the old sensor in the new body.


Im not so sure. 61 AF points on 1DX, 1DX2 and supposedly 1DX3 as well. They also might stick to the same MP, in return for better ISO performance and speed? But I'm also quite sure a minor bump will happen. 22MP. But no more.


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## unfocused (Nov 7, 2019)

Can't reveal the source, but his initials are H.F. and he lives in Canada and just bought a helicopter.


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## Ozarker (Nov 7, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Can't reveal the source, but his initials are H.F. and he lives in Canada and just bought a helicopter.


Beany-Copter. It's a Beany -Copter


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## Dragon (Nov 7, 2019)

It needs to be about 25 MP to be able to do DCI 4k with a 6k-4k down conversion and now that they have the processor to do that, it is hard to believe that they won't put it in the 1 series camera. The feature requires a crop in the 90D, but the video quality is very good in that mode (not DCI, of course).


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## mpmark (Nov 7, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



You're going to need to cut off sources that give you bogus information, this one is 100% sure? Eventually we will know, BUT if they are wrong I'd suggest deleting them from your contacts as they clearly make crap up.


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## Kalle (Nov 7, 2019)

You have to remember that Tokyo Olympics 2020 will be the place to announce 8K. It’s quite interesting if 1D doesn’t have possibility to record 8K. It might be two separate models, 4K and 8K.


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## PureClassA (Nov 7, 2019)

Yeah Im going with “he’s 100% sure he saw a test rig”. Cant imagine coming back with the same sensor size. it’ll be 24


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## NorskHest (Nov 7, 2019)

Yyyyyeeeesssssss I want it to stay at 20 with better dynamic rage and this makes me happy.


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## djack41 (Nov 7, 2019)

Either is fine. Just hope Canon can improve the AF.


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## tron (Nov 7, 2019)

Maybe someone had painted a "I" to the right of "II" to make it look like "III"


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## StoicalEtcher (Nov 7, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> if the person is in the know I'd say it is a prototype with the old sensor in the new body.


That would get my vote too. In the meantime, perhaps the confusion with different MP sensors in different prototypes helps Canon trace the source of leaks...?


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## slclick (Nov 7, 2019)

Maybe the prototype was missing an X, I guess that would have been 10mp though, lol.


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## tron (Nov 7, 2019)

Maybe the less smart (or trustworthy?) tester got a 1DxII body after all


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## Berowne (Nov 7, 2019)

After completely contradictory Rumors, the officially Announcement by Canon follows swiftly.


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## ethanz (Nov 7, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Can't reveal the source, but his initials are H.F. and he lives in Canada and just bought a helicopter.



No, his rumor was a 73 MP SUPER SENSOR that can do amazing things.


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## unfocused (Nov 7, 2019)

ethanz said:


> No, his rumor was a 73 MP SUPER SENSOR that can do amazing things.


Don't sweat the details. He predicted a sensor, so that's close enough to claim YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!


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## Accutance (Nov 7, 2019)

___Yesterday we reported that a source was “80% sure” ___

Well 20MP / 24 MP = 83.3%. Well, seems within the margin of error.


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## Michael Clark (Nov 7, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I'd call BS on that one, if the person is in the know I'd say it is a prototype with the old sensor in the new body.



Or new firmware/software/other hardware pieces in a 1DX Mark II with the 1D X Mark II sensor.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 7, 2019)

Wouldn't the resolution be more likely to be determined by the transfer speed of the wireless transmitter? rather than the potential processing speeds canon can produce. This camera has to serve the purposes of sports photographers. Is it likely that the ability to transfer images wirelessly means they have to be under a certain file size?


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## Jim Corbett (Nov 7, 2019)

1DX: 18mp.
1DXII: 20mp.
1DXIII: 22mp.
What if everyone's wrong, and Canon are keeping the last laugh for themselves?


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## SteveC (Nov 7, 2019)

Jim Corbett said:


> 1DX: 18mp.
> 1DXII: 20mp.
> 1DXIII: 22mp.
> What if everyone's wrong, and Canon are keeping the last laugh for themselves?



1DXIII: 2mp.

That'd troll 'em!!


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## Mr Majestyk (Nov 7, 2019)

Pathetic if true, just saved me a shit load of money. Would be a poor look to now be distant third in resolution with Nikon anticipatd to increase resolution with the D6, and never in 1 series history has there been a model update without resolution increase even when they have been quite poor at times. Hopefully this is more CR(-1).


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## Danglin52 (Nov 7, 2019)

I doubt this rumor for several reasons:
- Sony A9 / A9 II has a 24.2mp sensor
- Nikon will probably use the same sensor as the A9 II @ 24.2 mp
- Post above that shows progression of 1dx 18mp to 20mp would lend itself to at least a bump to 22mp
- Canon seems to have new sensor tech that can easily go to 24mp while delivering improved noise control over previous sensors
- Canon has indicated they are going to be more competitive on spec (32mp APS-C vs competition as a sample)
- I don't see any way Canon would stay with 20mp when competition is at 24mp in what they consider their domain - high performance sports and wildlife camera.

I go with the theory of multiple test platform and this user drew the short straw with the old sensor. The other options is that it might be new sensor tech they are testing just to see how much they could improve noise control if they didn't move up to 24mp. I think marketing will want to at lest match the competition mpx with a target for better noise performance. The A9 apparently does a great job and Canon can't afford to drop the ball unless they are saving the 24mp for the mirrorless 1dx????. A 20mp sensor is not a deal breaker for me if I get more stops of light, but it would be nice to have more room to crop wildlife shots. Sports is probably a bigger segment for the camera than wildlife and I have seen several posts from sports shooters that claim they prefer to stick with 20mp for reduced file sizes. To me, Canon already has addressed this issue with multiple RAW file size options.


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## Hector1970 (Nov 8, 2019)

Just a clever ruse by Canon. Send out a rumour for 20 MP and turn up with 24MP and everyone will be relieved and delighted.


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## masterpix (Nov 8, 2019)

I think Canon is doing a wonderful job immitating Apple with the rumors about the 1DxIII. Someone in Canon is sitting right now, reading our "educated guesses" and rub thier hands in pleasure, cause making the "hype" over the new model is exactly what they wnated to do. GIving the camera to people who were not really allowed to test it (by the way, you can go to the menu and get the exact size of the image withouth the need to record it on the card) and then tell them "you are 'not' allowed to tell others what you have seen' while knowing they won't keep their mouth shut and tell "but not tell others" what they think they saw.

It is fun to speculate based on almost no data at all !

By the way, I think that it will have something between 24MP to 30MP, you need 24MP to make a decent 4K movies, and over 30MP seems to be impossible to have 16FPS continouse shooting, unless they figured how to record in the speed of light, even with Cfast card.


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## SecureGSM (Nov 8, 2019)

On another note, if they turned up with a 28MP sensor, they would have seen a truck load of 5D shooters converted into 1D shooters, me inclusive.


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## gsealy (Nov 8, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> On another note, if they turned up with a 28MP sensor, they would have seen a truck load of 5D shooters converted into 1D shooters, me inclusive.


At 28MP it is a no-brainer for me. Just show me where to sign. But 20MP? Huh? Gotta think about that. At 24 MP, then it is looking good, but we gotta see what the detailed specs are.


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## masterpix (Nov 8, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> On another note, if they turned up with a 28MP sensor, they would have seen a truck load of 5D shooters converted into 1D shooters, me inclusive.


But the new 5DV is romured to have something in the range of 45MP, So sensor-wise, the "gap" remains.


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## SecureGSM (Nov 8, 2019)

masterpix said:


> But the new 5DV is romured to have something in the range of 45MP, So sensor-wise, the "gap" remains.



I am honestly not interested in a 40+ MP goodness. 

I am happy with 5D IV 30-ish MP files. 

A family friend shoots with A7r III and his RAW files apparently are as larger as 75Mb each. Well, scratch that...


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## gsealy (Nov 8, 2019)

masterpix said:


> But the new 5DV is romured to have something in the range of 45MP, So sensor-wise, the "gap" remains.


And as a point of reference, the 5DIII introduced 22.3MP 8 years ago. We'll see what happens with the 1DxIII. But I am expecting that Fujifilm will refresh the GFX50s such that it has the video capabilities of the X-T3. At that point, I will forget about the IDxIII.


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## masterpix (Nov 8, 2019)

gsealy said:


> And as a point of reference, the 5DIII introduced 22.3MP 8 years ago. We'll see what happens with the 1DxIII. But I am expecting that Fujifilm will refresh the GFX50s such that it has the video capabilities of the X-T3. At that point, I will forget about the



My concern is more about FPS and focus tracking than the sensor size. Most 1D users are not unterested in HUGE MP sensor for they are not producing glamour photography but more "action" which is nature, news, sports where low noise in high ISO, large FPS and fast recording is much mroe important than MP. Therefore I don't think that 5D users will switch to 1D just because the 1D will have 28MP sensor which is very close to the 30MP of teh current 5D.


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## Pape (Nov 8, 2019)

They may test with old sensor too ,if cant be 100% sure if new is reliable enough for olympics.
Cant postpone 1dx3 like RS


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 8, 2019)

Pape said:


> They may test with old sensor too ,if cant be 100% sure if new is reliable enough for olympics.
> Cant postpone 1dx3 like RS


You can't test with old sensor though. The old sensor does not have the same capabilities as the new one will. It lacks the improved dual pixel architecture, the focusing points etc etc. It isn't just a matter of resolution is it?


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## Pape (Nov 8, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> You can't test with old sensor though. The old sensor does not have the same capabilities as the new one will. It lacks the improved dual pixel architecture, the focusing points etc etc. It isn't just a matter of resolution is it?


ok dual pixel modified old sensor then  and live view shooting rumours can be for new 24mpix sensor


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## Danglin52 (Nov 8, 2019)

masterpix said:


> But the new 5DV is romured to have something in the range of 45MP, So sensor-wise, the "gap" remains.



I am planning on a 1dx III upgrade, but I think I will probably complement with an R II or high MP if they deliver a 5dV equivalent camera like they did with the 90d / m6 II. I will probably hold off on RF lenses and adapt my EF lenses until the point I move away from wildlife. I am 67 and that 36lbs of camera gear + tripod gets heavier every trip. I figure when I hit 70 it will be time to give up the 1dx III. I would probably pass on the 1dx III if it wasn't for 2 more trips to Africa, 1 trip to Antarctica, 4 trips to the National Parks, etc, etc by the end of 2022.


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## Franklyok (Nov 8, 2019)

100% is not enough, lets have another rumor eith leaker who is 200% sure and so on. And also CEO's wife would be great leaker, ask her directly.


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## Skyscraperfan (Nov 8, 2019)

20 megapixels are okay for me unless Canon finds a way to reduce pixel level noise. I wish be will someday have a camera with two sensors that you can somehow switch. One with no more than 12 megapixels for low light and video and one with 40 or more megapixels for sharp photos in good lighting.


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## scyrene (Nov 8, 2019)

I don't know why people are still pushing the old line 'lower res = better high ISO'. Very little progress has been made by any manufacturer on high ISO *raw* noise levels for years, nor is much more improvement physically possible (as knowledgable people keep saying, but seemingly ignored).


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## fentiger (Nov 8, 2019)

I am sure Canon had multiple versions of the new D3 at the recent Rugby world cup.
they have enough data to decide what version to release, and ramp up production.

personally i wish Canon would release two sensor versions, like panasonic have done with the S1,S1R,S1H


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## Architect1776 (Nov 8, 2019)

Eersel said:


> It is quite possible that both of these "sources" are correct. I wouldn't be shocked if there are a few different 1DxIII's prototypes out there sporting different sensors.
> 
> The big question remains though.
> 
> As a betting man, I would look at 24.x sensor. There is a resolution war going on between Canon and Sony.



Canon would be mercilessly bashed if they did not use a 24.x mp sensor and that is PR they would be silly to accept today as there are actually real photographers now moving to Sony. But who knows.


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## Jack Jian (Nov 8, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Canon would be mercilessly bashed if they did not use a 24.x mp sensor and that is PR they would be silly to accept today as there are actually real photographers now moving to Sony. But who knows.


There aren't any 1Dx users who moved to Sony which are known to me so far.


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## serhatakbal (Nov 8, 2019)

I've been a fanatic Canon user for a long time! I am using a 1DXMK2 now.
If the Canon sensor doesn't make a difference, I will definitely move to another brand (Leica SL2)
I hope that canon does not disappoint us.


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## FramerMCB (Nov 8, 2019)

Eersel said:


> It is quite possible that both of these "sources" are correct. I wouldn't be shocked if there are a few different 1DxIII's prototypes out there sporting different sensors.
> 
> The big question remains though.
> 
> As a betting man, I would look at 24.x sensor. There is a resolution war going on between Canon and Sony.



This makes great sense - and their soliciting feedback from the Users on the resulting images and the speed of how each iteration is performing - in a real-world usage.


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## AccipiterQ (Nov 8, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Pathetic if true, just saved me a shit load of money. Would be a poor look to now be distant third in resolution with Nikon anticipatd to increase resolution with the D6, and never in 1 series history has there been a model update without resolution increase even when they have been quite poor at times. Hopefully this is more CR(-1).



I agree....24 would seem to be the standard at this point....Although Canon has been disappointing people for a few years now so I wouldn't put it past them to do this. Ugh.


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## AccipiterQ (Nov 8, 2019)

gsealy said:


> At 28MP it is a no-brainer for me. Just show me where to sign. But 20MP? Huh? Gotta think about that. At 24 MP, then it is looking good, but we gotta see what the detailed specs are.



I was in a similar boat...especially for wildlife....if you think about how many pixels you put on a bird/animal vs the 7Dii. 28MP vs 20.2 is a nearly 40% advantage which eliminates a large portion of the 7Dii's advantage of having the crop factor.


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## AccipiterQ (Nov 8, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I am planning on a 1dx III upgrade, but I think I will probably complement with an R II or high MP if they deliver a 5dV equivalent camera like they did with the 90d / m6 II. I will probably hold off on RF lenses and adapt my EF lenses until the point I move away from wildlife. I am 67 and that 36lbs of camera gear + tripod gets heavier every trip. I figure when I hit 70 it will be time to give up the 1dx III. I would probably pass on the 1dx III if it wasn't for 2 more trips to Africa, 1 trip to Antarctica, 4 trips to the National Parks, etc, etc by the end of 2022.




What do you carry for gear? I hope the rest of your trips go well...I'm betting the last few minutes of your final trip will feel quite poignant after however many decades you spent out there photographing wildlife.


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## masterpix (Nov 8, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I am planning on a 1dx III upgrade, but I think I will probably complement with an R II or high MP if they deliver a 5dV equivalent camera like they did with the 90d / m6 II. I will probably hold off on RF lenses and adapt my EF lenses until the point I move away from wildlife. I am 67 and that 36lbs of camera gear + tripod gets heavier every trip. I figure when I hit 70 it will be time to give up the 1dx III. I would probably pass on the 1dx III if it wasn't for 2 more trips to Africa, 1 trip to Antarctica, 4 trips to the National Parks, etc, etc by the end of 2022.


Hi, as for weight, there must be ways to reduce the weight of the gear withouht compremise on the camera. For example, a vest that you can attach the gera to and such that wil not only reduce the wieght, but also makes it better to carry. I hope there are ways to resolve this,


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## FramerMCB (Nov 8, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I'd call BS on that one, if the person is in the know I'd say it is a prototype with the old sensor in the new body.


I would have to agree with your assessment. Especially when one considers the 32mp brand-new sensor in the 10 frames/sec 90D.


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## FramerMCB (Nov 8, 2019)

What if Canon does something with the 1DX line that they did with the 5DS and 5DSr several years ago. Introduce 2 different DX III models, one with the old 20.2 (or refreshed 20.2) mp sensor to maintain file sizes for a certain pro-segment and a 24.2, or even 26mp, brand new sensor for all other pro (and other) segments?

Wouldn't that shock everyone?

1 DXs III or 1 DX IIIs?
1 DX III


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## sid.safari (Nov 8, 2019)

Could it be possible Canon is testing various resolutions in the field to see which provides the best low light performance? 

Ultimately i think the cameras low light performance and IQ is more important than mega pix count for the 1dx iii.


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## FramerMCB (Nov 8, 2019)

scyrene said:


> I don't know why people are still pushing the old line 'lower res = better high ISO'. Very little progress has been made by any manufacturer on high ISO *raw* noise levels for years, nor is much more improvement physically possible (as knowledgable people keep saying, but seemingly ignored).


With my very limited knowledge, as I understand it, the only way to reduce noise is with pixel size/architecture and processing - both on the initial capture and how the capture gets saved/read to the memory card. This is my simplified view...


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## FramerMCB (Nov 8, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> Could it be possible Canon is testing various resolutions in the field to see which provides the best low light performance?
> 
> Ultimately i think the cameras low light performance and IQ is more important than mega pix count for the 1dx iii.


I would add to this, speed and autofocusing enhancements.


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## Danglin52 (Nov 8, 2019)

masterpix said:


> Hi, as for weight, there must be ways to reduce the weight of the gear withouht compremise on the camera. For example, a vest that you can attach the gera to and such that wil not only reduce the wieght, but also makes it better to carry. I hope there are ways to resolve this,



The problem is more in the lenses than the body, but it all adds up. I have the 200-400 f4 L IS w/integrated 1.4x TC that is almost 8lbs + the 100-400 II for handheld shooting + 24-70 f2.8 L II for low light and landscapes. In addition, I always carry a second body like the 5dIV for landscapes, etc. I use a vest in Africa for convenience, but it doesn't really cut down on my overall gear weight plus all the other stuff required. I am looking at alternatives to the 200-400, but I love the versatility and high image quality of the lens for what I shoot. I know most people would say leave the 100-400 II at home (which I occasionally substitute 70-200 f4 L IS II), but I like it on a second body for handheld shooting and carrying when away from a vehicle. The alternatives for the 200-400 would include the EF 500 II, EF 400 DO II, etc.


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## Danglin52 (Nov 8, 2019)

AccipiterQ said:


> What do you carry for gear? I hope the rest of your trips go well...I'm betting the last few minutes of your final trip will feel quite poignant after however many decades you spent out there photographing wildlife.



I am a very healthy 67, so I plan to continue trips long after 70 but will probably shift to landscapes, etc. At a minimum, I will scale back from the heavier professional lenses and gear. My typical gear for a hard core wildlife trip is 1dx II, 5dIV, 24-70 f2.8 L II, 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS II, 200-400 f4 L IS w/1.4x tc, multiple batteries for both cameras, battery chargers, binoculars, RRS Tripod & Wimberley Head (not for Africa), 1.4x & 2x TC III's, etc. I like the 100-400 II on my backup camera when I need to shift to handheld shooting. This was the bag on my 2017 Africa trip where I was doing Gorillas and wanted the 100-400 II for the mountain treks.


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## [email protected] (Nov 8, 2019)

Jack Jian said:


> There aren't any 1Dx users who moved to Sony which are known to me so far.



Pleasure to make your acquaintance. I didn't let the doors hit me in the butt on the way out of this forum because I never left 

I have been enjoying the A9 for about 6 months and A92 for the past few days while hoping Canon comes back with a pro version of its mirrorless. I have 13 EF lenses awaiting this coming.

The two things I miss from my 1dx2 are the menu system and the weatherproofing (although it'll be interesting to see if the A92 does better with the weather proofing. First indications are that it is an improvement.)

I would very much like to exploit all those amazing RF lenses Canon has been putting out to the non-existent market of Pro R body owners. One has to expect there will be a deserving body to follow. My minimum definition includes >8fps with AF-C, which is the R's weakest point.


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## tron (Nov 8, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I am a very healthy 67, so I plan to continue trips long after 70 but will probably shift to landscapes, etc. At a minimum, I will scale back from the heavier professional lenses and gear. My typical gear for a hard core wildlife trip is 1dx II, 5dIV, 24-70 f2.8 L II, 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS II, 200-400 f4 L IS w/1.4x tc, multiple batteries for both cameras, battery chargers, binoculars, RRS Tripod & Wimberley Head (not for Africa), 1.4x & 2x TC III's, etc. I like the 100-400 II on my backup camera when I need to shift to handheld shooting. This was the bag on my 2017 Africa trip where I was doing Gorillas and wanted the 100-400 II for the mountain treks.
> 
> View attachment 187431
> View attachment 187431


Whaaaaaat? What bag is that and how much heavy becomes with all that? I have similar equipment but (change 20-400 for 500 and 1DxII for 5DsR though) but I wouldn't dare to put that thing in my back. I split to two bags and keep them in the car. When I have to carry a bag I take less with me. It's either the 500 with 5DsR and something small like 200D or 5DIV with 16-35 and a 400DOII but not both. Once that I was recovering from a back problem I took 5DsR with 100-400II and 200D with 10-18 (and a G7XII).


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## amorse (Nov 8, 2019)

I really struggle to see this being real. I can't see Canon having their most expensive camera, a true flagship, also be the lowest resolution in their stable. Then again, this camera really isn't intended to be a resolution monster so who knows.


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## Danglin52 (Nov 8, 2019)

tron said:


> Whaaaaaat? What bag is that and how much heavy becomes with all that? I have similar equipment but (change 20-400 for 500 and 1DxII for 5DsR though) but I wouldn't dare to put that thing in my back. I split to two bags and keep them in the car. When I have to carry a bag I take less with me. It's either the 500 with 5DsR and something small like 200D or 5DIV with 16-35 and a 400DOII but not both. Once that I was recovering from a back problem I took 5DsR with 100-400II and 200D with 10-18 (and a G7XII).



Gura Gear 32L. I use these bags more as a transport bag and work out of the bag when near a vehicle. This configuration is 36lbs and I would never try to hike with a full bag. I was in Alaska for Brown Bears one year where we did a 6 mile hike and I stripped out everything except the 1dxII, 200-400, 24-70 and an extra battery. I strap on one of the little 2 wheel luggage carts when traveling though airports. I took two separate bags for my first Africa trip and found it to be a pain when dealing with both camera bags and general luggage (charter flights with a group with no real weight limits). I usually carry a small, flat backup with the iPad, iPhone, etc. I have always been strong and have not lost too much muscle as I have aged. I do feel it a bit more and know that time will catch up with me eventually.


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## gsealy (Nov 8, 2019)

masterpix said:


> My concern is more about FPS and focus tracking than the sensor size. Most 1D users are not unterested in HUGE MP sensor for they are not producing glamour photography but more "action" which is nature, news, sports where low noise in high ISO, large FPS and fast recording is much mroe important than MP. Therefore I don't think that 5D users will switch to 1D just because the 1D will have 28MP sensor which is very close to the 30MP of teh current 5D.


I definitely get it. I do little "action" photography, but I do respect the 1D cameras a lot. I have a 1DsIII and I love the feel and size of it, and it has 21.1MP. Imagine that! And it is 12 years old now. So I have a strong liking for what the 1DxIII could be. But, BUT, where I am right now is that I would like to get a higher MP camera for what I do shoot. The 1DxIII video specs (that we know about) are also very enticing. I do a fair amount of video work too, so I like what the 1DxIII might offer that way. So, we'll see what happens in the next couple of months.


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## tron (Nov 8, 2019)

I have Gura Gear 26L but it holds the 500 without a camera. So I got a Streetwalker Harddrive 2.0 bag that can keep the 500 with a body (barely but it does). It has less width than the Gura Gears (26L and 32L) but I chose this on purpose so as not to overload it.


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## gsealy (Nov 8, 2019)

amorse said:


> I really struggle to see this being real. I can't see Canon having their most expensive camera, a true flagship, also be the lowest resolution in their stable. Then again, this camera really isn't intended to be a resolution monster so who knows.


The thing is more MP means more flexibility to crop as desired/necessary with the end result still being a high quality photo. If I were on safari where the vistas are broad, then it would be a very powerful tool to have a lot of MP.


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## SteveC (Nov 8, 2019)

gsealy said:


> At 28MP it is a no-brainer for me. Just show me where to sign. But 20MP? Huh? Gotta think about that. At 24 MP, then it is looking good, but we gotta see what the detailed specs are.



A similar attitude to mine regarding the R series.


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## justaCanonuser (Nov 8, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I am a very healthy 67, so I plan to continue trips long after 70 but will probably shift to landscapes, etc. At a minimum, I will scale back from the heavier professional lenses and gear. My typical gear for a hard core wildlife trip is 1dx II, 5dIV, 24-70 f2.8 L II, 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS II, 200-400 f4 L IS w/1.4x tc, multiple batteries for both cameras, battery chargers, binoculars, RRS Tripod & Wimberley Head (not for Africa), 1.4x & 2x TC III's, etc. I like the 100-400 II on my backup camera when I need to shift to handheld shooting. This was the bag on my 2017 Africa trip where I was doing Gorillas and wanted the 100-400 II for the mountain treks.
> 
> View attachment 187431
> View attachment 187431


Not bad, reminds me of my own package, though with a bit different lenses and cameras, e.g. I carry frequently an EF 500mm with me. So your back is really healthy. I wish you that you can proceed for some years that way


----------



## justaCanonuser (Nov 8, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> 20 megapixels are okay for me unless Canon finds a way to reduce pixel level noise. I wish be will someday have a camera with two sensors that you can somehow switch. One with no more than 12 megapixels for low light and video and one with 40 or more megapixels for sharp photos in good lighting.


One sensor would be enough, with the option to switch between e.g. 24 MP and 12 MP with virtual pixels, i.e. combined pixels on the sensor level. This would be my dream, because you'd really have two cameras in one.


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## SteveC (Nov 8, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> One sensor would be enough, with the option to switch between e.g. 24 MP and 12 MP with virtual pixels, i.e. combined pixels on the sensor level. This would be my dream, because you'd really have two cameras in one.



Question in earnest: Wouldn't it make sense to combine four pixels (2x2) into one lower res pixel? Of course that would reduce to 24 vs 6 MP in this instance, but if the camera started with 36 or 48, those could reduce to 9 or 12.

Going down by a factor of 2 means combining a block of 1.414... x 1.414 pixels, which involves a lot of interpolating across the whole sensor.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Nov 8, 2019)

SteveC said:


> Question in earnest: Wouldn't it make sense to combine four pixels (2x2) into one lower res pixel? Of course that would reduce to 24 vs 6 MP in this instance, but if the camera started with 36 or 48, those could reduce to 9 or 12.
> 
> Going down by a factor of 2 means combining a block of 1.414... x 1.414 pixels, which involves a lot of interpolating across the whole sensor.


Well, it is more complicated, because the standard Bayer pattern sensors already use four pixels to make one color pixel. But you are right, a factor 4 would be more suitable. In fact, even only 6 well working MP with low noise level in pitch dark nights would be something nice.


----------



## sanj (Nov 8, 2019)

gsealy said:


> The thing is more MP means more flexibility to crop as desired/necessary with the end result still being a high quality photo. If I were on safari where the vistas are broad, then it would be a very powerful tool to have a lot of MP.





gsealy said:


> The thing is more MP means more flexibility to crop as desired/necessary with the end result still being a high quality photo. If I were on safari where the vistas are broad, then it would be a very powerful tool to have a lot of MP.


5ds is your camera!


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## Kit. (Nov 8, 2019)

serhatakbal said:


> I've been a fanatic Canon user for a long time! I am using a 1DXMK2 now.
> If the Canon sensor doesn't make a difference, I will definitely move to another brand (Leica SL2)
> I hope that canon does not disappoint us.


I wonder what AF performance (and especially AF burst performance) you expect from SL2. After being used to 1DX II, won't Leica's contrast detect only autofocus disappoint you?


----------



## scyrene (Nov 8, 2019)

AccipiterQ said:


> I agree....24 would seem to be the standard at this point....Although Canon has been disappointing *people* for a few years now so I wouldn't put it past them to do this. Ugh.



*a few people chiefly on forums.



AccipiterQ said:


> I was in a similar boat...especially for wildlife....if you think about how many pixels you put on a bird/animal vs the 7Dii. 28MP vs 20.2 is a nearly 40% advantage which eliminates a large portion of the 7Dii's advantage of having the crop factor.



You're forgetting that the crop is linear, while the resolution is area - a FF sensor has to be >50MP to give the same 'reach' as a APS-C at ~20MP - i.e. 20x1.6x1.6 (which is why people talk about the 5DS(r) effectively eliminating the crop advantage). 28MP is nowhere near that.


----------



## tron (Nov 8, 2019)

sanj said:


> 5ds is your camera!


Although I have never been on Safari I have to agree with you on this (on the basis that I tend to use 5DsR for birding). But maybe a 5DIV would be also necessary for the very early in the morning and very late in the afternoon photos.


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## flip314 (Nov 8, 2019)

Kit. said:


> I wonder what AF performance (and especially AF burst performance) you expect from SL2. After being used to 1DX II, won't Leica's contrast detect only autofocus disappoint you?



The SL2 only does 6fps with continuous AF, which is nothing compared to the 1DX II.

HOWEVER, the 1DX II doesn't have a red dot.


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## SteveC (Nov 8, 2019)

sanj said:


> 5ds is your camera!



Perhaps one of the new R bodies will be a plausible alternative to this. Depending on price I might finally jump into the R and Full Frame world in that case.


----------



## Kit. (Nov 8, 2019)

flip314 said:


> HOWEVER, the 1DX II doesn't have a red dot.


It has an EF mount, it must have a red dot there.


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## GoldWing (Nov 8, 2019)

I'm hoping for 30mp. Anything less will be disappointing. Why switch away from CFast if you're NOT bumping up the MP's???? 

As sports photographers some very ignorant people state about us...  that we don't need or want more resolution. What bunk!!!! Who would not want more??? Keep the mirror box at 15FPS RAW and the Mirror Up at 20 if some are willing to shoot without the OVF. 

I don't want a video camera masked as a 1DXMKIII. If I want a video camera, I go out and buy one. I'm a photographer not s videographer!


----------



## Danglin52 (Nov 8, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> I'm hoping for 30mp. Anything less will be disappointing. Why switch away from CFast if you're NOT bumping up the MP's????
> 
> As sports photographers some very ignorant people state about us... that we don't need or want more resolution. What bunk!!!! Who would not want more??? Keep the mirror box at 15FPS RAW and the Mirror Up at 20 if some are willing to shoot without the OVF.
> 
> I don't want a video camera masked as a 1DXMKIII. If I want a video camera, I go out and buy one. I'm a photographer not s videographer!



it is not just write speed, the entire pipe from capture to write has to accommodate enough bandwidth to support more MPs. In addition, it requires enough compute power to continue AF and other processing functions during write.


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## unfocused (Nov 8, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> I'm hoping for 30mp. Anything less will be disappointing. Why switch away from CFast if you're NOT bumping up the MP's????
> 
> As sports photographers some very ignorant people state about us... that we don't need or want more resolution. What bunk!!!! Who would not want more??? Keep the mirror box at 15FPS RAW and the Mirror Up at 20 if some are willing to shoot without the OVF.
> 
> I don't want a video camera masked as a 1DXMKIII. If I want a video camera, I go out and buy one. I'm a photographer not s videographer!


I hear you. Having shot the 1DXII side by side with both the 5DIV and R, I'd be content if they just stuck the same 30 mp sensor into the 1Dx III. ISO 6400 looks pretty much the same from any of these bodies, so I don't buy the argument that there would be any ISO benefit to keeping the 1D x III at 20 mp. I also have a hard time believing that with the extra processing power of a 1Dx III that it couldn't do 15 fps using a cfexpress card and bigger buffer, given what the R and 5DIV handle with an older processor and Compact Flash and SD cards. 

Maybe this is just a scam to make us all happy and relieved when it has 28 mp?


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## HarryFilm (Nov 8, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Can't reveal the source, but his initials are H.F. and he lives in Canada and just bought a helicopter.




Wrong company !!! ..... My sources are about a DIFFERENT company than Canon!

AND ... It's a Bell 429 for your information !









Bell 429 GlobalRanger - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





That is what I'm training on ....

---

AND you heard it here first !!!!

A certain very large multimedia company is introducing a Medium Format 50.3 megapixel 4:3 aspect ratio 8192x6144 pixel resolution at up to 60 fps combined stills/video camera with 16-bits per colour channel (48 bit colour) FULL RAW and Wavelet-based stills and DCI 8K 60 fps 4:4:4/4:2:2 FULL RAW, intraframe and interframe compressed video with high frame rates at lower resolutions for $10,000 US!

AND

that same company is introducing a 2/3rd inch and APS-C large sensor series of super-smartphones with 50+ megapixel stills at 16-bits per channel AND 4:4:4/4:2:2 video at DCI 30 to 60 fps 8192x4320 and high frame rate 4K/2K video ....AND..... 4K resolution displays on Qualcomm Snapdragon 845/855 cpus running Android!

SO THERE !!!!!

.


----------



## Jim Corbett (Nov 9, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Wrong company !!! ..... My sources are about a DIFFERENT company than Canon!
> 
> AND ... It's a Bell 429 for your information !
> 
> ...



If there is a notch, I'm switching to Nintendo!!!


----------



## sanj (Nov 9, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I am a very healthy 67, so I plan to continue trips long after 70 but will probably shift to landscapes, etc. At a minimum, I will scale back from the heavier professional lenses and gear. My typical gear for a hard core wildlife trip is 1dx II, 5dIV, 24-70 f2.8 L II, 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS II, 200-400 f4 L IS w/1.4x tc, multiple batteries for both cameras, battery chargers, binoculars, RRS Tripod & Wimberley Head (not for Africa), 1.4x & 2x TC III's, etc. I like the 100-400 II on my backup camera when I need to shift to handheld shooting. This was the bag on my 2017 Africa trip where I was doing Gorillas and wanted the 100-400 II for the mountain treks.
> 
> View attachment 187431
> View attachment 187431


Healthy 67. Inspirational. May God give you all the health and a lifestyle to match. Thumbs up.


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## Danglin52 (Nov 9, 2019)

sanj said:


> Healthy 67. Inspirational. May God give you all the health and a lifestyle to match. Thumbs up.



Thanks for the really great reply. I have friends who are having health issues (even younger), so I truly appreciate my fortune as to health. I always say I was blessed with a peasant body - takes a licking and keeps on ticking! The only thing I have in the negative column is bad (but stable) vision since birth - 0 in left eye and 20/200 best correction in right. I know, wildlife photography is a strange hobby to pursue, but I can hold my own. I love the outdoors and shooting wildlife even if I have to do it with a 20mpx camera!


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## masterpix (Nov 9, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> The problem is more in the lenses than the body, but it all adds up. I have the 200-400 f4 L IS w/integrated 1.4x TC that is almost 8lbs + the 100-400 II for handheld shooting + 24-70 f2.8 L II for low light and landscapes. In addition, I always carry a second body like the 5dIV for landscapes, etc. I use a vest in Africa for convenience, but it doesn't really cut down on my overall gear weight plus all the other stuff required. I am looking at alternatives to the 200-400, but I love the versatility and high image quality of the lens for what I shoot. I know most people would say leave the 100-400 II at home (which I occasionally substitute 70-200 f4 L IS II), but I like it on a second body for handheld shooting and carrying when away from a vehicle. The alternatives for the 200-400 would include the EF 500 II, EF 400 DO II, etc.


WOW! you carry a lot of glass on you, for many reasons (financial mostly) I have the 10-22EFS (I have the 7D) then 24-105II and the 100-400II with me, Iwould like to have the 11-24 but it is way over my budget right now, and it is far too heavy also. All in all it is a compromise, although I must say that the 100-40II is the default lens in many cases.


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## serhatakbal (Nov 9, 2019)

[QUOTE = "GoldWing, gönderi: 801652, üye: 369564"]
30mp için bekliyorum. Daha az bir şey hayal kırıklığı yaratacaktır. Milletvekillerini yakalamıyorsanız neden CFast'tan uzaklaşın ????

Spor fotoğrafçıları olarak çok cahil insanlar bizim hakkımızda belirtiyorlar ... daha fazla çözüme ihtiyacımız yok veya istemiyoruz. Ne ranza !!!! Kim daha fazlasını istemez ki ??? Bazıları OVF olmadan çekim yapmak istiyorsa, ayna kutusunu 15FPS RAW'da ve Mirror Up 20'de tutun.

1DXMKIII olarak maskelenmiş bir video kamera istemiyorum. Bir video kamera istiyorsam, dışarı çıkıp bir tane alırım. Ben bir fotoğrafçıyım, kameraman değil!
[/ALINTI]


GoldWing said:


> I'm hoping for 30mp. Anything less will be disappointing. Why switch away from CFast if you're NOT bumping up the MP's????
> 
> As sports photographers some very ignorant people state about us... that we don't need or want more resolution. What bunk!!!! Who would not want more??? Keep the mirror box at 15FPS RAW and the Mirror Up at 20 if some are willing to shoot without the OVF.
> 
> I don't want a video camera masked as a 1DXMKIII. If I want a video camera, I go out and buy one. I'm a photographer not s videographer!




Yes! she can be a photographer but Im a Photographer and Videomaker I'm glad to have a camera capable..


----------



## jprusa (Nov 9, 2019)

The EOS-1D X Mark III will feature a brand-new AF sensor with 28x more resolution than its predecessor. Canon USA


----------



## Joules (Nov 9, 2019)

jprusa said:


> The EOS-1D X Mark III will feature a brand-new AF sensor with 28x more resolution than its predecessor. Canon USA


Which has 0 implications for the imaging sensor resolution.


----------



## Danglin52 (Nov 9, 2019)

masterpix said:


> WOW! you carry a lot of glass on you, for many reasons (financial mostly) I have the 10-22EFS (I have the 7D) then 24-105II and the 100-400II with me, Iwould like to have the 11-24 but it is way over my budget right now, and it is far too heavy also. All in all it is a compromise, although I must say that the 100-40II is the default lens in many cases.



You have the 10 - 400 (16-640) range covered with a good camera and glass. You can't beat the 100-400 II on the long end unless you get into the big whites. I am fortunate that I had a career that has funded my travel and hobby. I spent a lot of years on airplanes and away from home, but it has allowed my wife and I to travel to some pretty cool locations before / after I retired in 2013. I wish I had retired earlier, but it was hard to walk away from a great job that I enjoyed - except for the work travel. I always owned the bodies I liked, but usually rented the longer lenses for special trips. I caught a deep discount on a 200-400 refurb on the Canon site and would be pretty close to breaking even if I sold at current values. The lens was perfect and I think their refurb gear may be as good or better than what you buy off the shelf because of testing. 

Have fun shooting!


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 9, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> Just a clever ruse by Canon. Send out a rumour for 20 MP and turn up with 24MP and everyone will be relieved and delighted.



It always worked for Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott when the _Enterprise _required a massive overhaul of her warp drives to get out of a tight spot.


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 9, 2019)

Jack Jian said:


> There aren't any 1Dx users who moved to Sony which are known to me so far.



I know a "weekend" freelancer for a local paper that has to use his own gear who sold his 1D X (2012 version) and bought an α9 (2017) + 70-200/2.8 GM sometime between May and September of this year.

I also know a well-seasoned (30+ years) staff PJ who recently got put out to pasture. He shot with company owned Canon gear (including at least one 1D X near the end of it) for almost his entire career. He's been freelancing with his self-purchased α9 since a little over a year ago.


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 9, 2019)

AccipiterQ said:


> I was in a similar boat...especially for wildlife....if you think about how many pixels you put on a bird/animal vs the 7Dii. 28MP vs 20.2 is a nearly 40% advantage which eliminates a large portion of the 7Dii's advantage of having the crop factor.



Not really. The 20.2MP 7D Mark II has the same pixel size as the 50MP 5Ds/5Ds R. Keep in mind that a FF sensor is 1.6X longer and 1.6X taller, for a total area that is 2.56X Canon's APS-C crop sensors.

A FF 28MP sensor has the same pixel density as an 11MP (10.9375) APS-C sensor.


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 9, 2019)

FramerMCB said:


> What if Canon does something with the 1DX line that they did with the 5DS and 5DSr several years ago. Introduce 2 different DX III models, one with the old 20.2 (or refreshed 20.2) mp sensor to maintain file sizes for a certain pro-segment and a 24.2, or even 26mp, brand new sensor for all other pro (and other) segments?
> 
> Wouldn't that shock everyone?
> 
> ...



The EOS 5Ds and 5Ds R both use the same identical sensor. The only difference is in the filter stack that sits on top of the sensor. One has a conventional low pass filter with the first and second plates oriented 90° to one another, the "R" has the first and second plates oriented 180° to each other which makes the second one cancel the effect of the first one.


----------



## privatebydesign (Nov 9, 2019)

Jack Jian said:


> There aren't any 1Dx users who moved to Sony which are known to me so far.


I know of one high profile couple who shoot tennis and golf worldwide, they moved from 1DX MkII’s to A9’s (MkI) and couldn’t be happier. They have since sold every Canon item they owned including multiple 600EX-RT’s, a good number of L lenses including big tele’s etc etc.


----------



## masterpix (Nov 9, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> You have the 10 - 400 (16-640) range covered with a good camera and glass. You can't beat the 100-400 II on the long end unless you get into the big whites. I am fortunate that I had a career that has funded my travel and hobby. I spent a lot of years on airplanes and away from home, but it has allowed my wife and I to travel to some pretty cool locations before / after I retired in 2013. I wish I had retired earlier, but it was hard to walk away from a great job that I enjoyed - except for the work travel. I always owned the bodies I liked, but usually rented the longer lenses for special trips. I caught a deep discount on a 200-400 refurb on the Canon site and would be pretty close to breaking even if I sold at current values. The lens was perfect and I think their refurb gear may be as good or better than what you buy off the shelf because of testing.
> 
> Have fun shooting!


I do, and you too!


----------



## Architect1776 (Nov 9, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> it is not just write speed, the entire pipe from capture to write has to accommodate enough bandwidth to support more MPs. In addition, it requires enough compute power to continue AF and other processing functions during write.



Surely with all the advances in computing power and other similar technology the last issue should be computing speed and throughput.


----------



## Danglin52 (Nov 9, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Surely with all the advances in computing power and other similar technology the last issue should be computing speed and throughput.



I am guessing these are dedicated, special purpose components and processors that would be a significant expense to design and develop. Add software on top of that and you have a very complex, resources intensive and expensive process. I think we are spoiled by what we see with ARM processors used by Apple and other cell phone vendors. If you have a chip that is used by millions, you can cost justify the development and manufacturing infrastructure effort. The economics of scale is one reason that Sony has an advantage in sensor technology. They leverage development dollars across multiple sensor platforms. I don't doubt that current technology could be designed and adapted to address the throughput issues, but you might not be able to afford the camera. Once you put all of that together, you may also run into heat issues with processors and other components. Whether cameras or data centers, processing capacity and storage are ALWAYS an ongoing issue.


----------



## Joules (Nov 9, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> Whether cameras or data centers, processing capacity and storage are ALWAYS an ongoing issue.


Sure enough. The comment that sparked your remark didn't ask for anything all that unreasonable though. Using a sensor around 30 MP in the 1DX III would seem very realistic to me.

The EOS M6 II handles 14 FPS at 32.5 MP with full autofocus, despite being limited by a tiny form factor (bad for heat dissipation), a low capacity battery and a price tag that's only a fraction of what the 1DX III is expected to cost.

We're only talking about a 32% increase in required throughput, going from 32.5 MP 14 FPS to 30 MP 20 FPS. If Canon would want to do it, I sure hope they could.

If the X III will have a 20 or 24 MP sensor, I'm inclined to believe it's because the market required it, not because the technology didn't allow it. I simply find it hard to believe that Canon went all out with what they can do in terms of throughput with the M6 II and won't go above that, even with their newer flagship bodies.


----------



## Sporgon (Nov 9, 2019)

FramerMCB said:


> What if Canon does something with the 1DX line that they did with the 5DS and 5DSr several years ago. Introduce 2 different DX III models, one with the old 20.2 (or refreshed 20.2) mp sensor to maintain file sizes for a certain pro-segment and a 24.2, or even 26mp, brand new sensor for all other pro (and other) segments?
> 
> Wouldn't that shock everyone?
> 
> ...



Can someone just remind me what the practical difference is between a 20 mp sensor and a 24 ?


----------



## transpo1 (Nov 9, 2019)

tron said:


> Yes this is possible.



Yeah, I'd agree. 24MP seems like a target Canon needs to hit.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Nov 9, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> Ultimately i think the cameras low light performance and IQ is more important than mega pix count for the 1dx iii.



The two are entirely unrelated: regardless how many pixels Canon put into the Mk III's sensor (I'll bet 30+), I _guarantee_ that its high ISO performance will be better than that of the Mk II.

Just as the Mk II improved on the Mk I.

And the 7D Mk II improved on the 7D.

And the 5D Mk III improved on the Mk II.

And so on...


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## Keith_Reeder (Nov 9, 2019)

transpo1 said:


> Yeah, I'd agree. 24MP seems like a target Canon needs to hit.


Why? It's an arbitrary amount with no intrinsic "value" whatsoever.


----------



## slclick (Nov 9, 2019)

Keith_Reeder said:


> Why? It's an arbitrary amount with no intrinsic "value" whatsoever.


Is that only an intrinsic value if it applies to video measurements? It seems as if stills sensors are much simpler to wrap your head around resolution wise with far fewer factors at play. This particular body being most likely a 90%+ stills camera....why must so many believe the MP count will revolve around video rez?


----------



## venusFivePhotoStudio (Nov 9, 2019)

Jim Corbett said:


> 1DX: 18mp.
> 1DXII: 20mp.
> 1DXIII: 22mp.
> What if everyone's wrong, and Canon are keeping the last laugh for themselves?


Nah Normaly would be something like 18-20-23 or 18-20-24


----------



## venusFivePhotoStudio (Nov 9, 2019)

serhatakbal said:


> I've been a fanatic Canon user for a long time! I am using a 1DXMK2 now.
> If the Canon sensor doesn't make a difference, I will definitely move to another brand (Leica SL2)
> I hope that canon does not disappoint us.



You are right, the 1Dx mk III and even more the 5D mark V must be wonderful, otherwise canon is *******  
He really is I'm not joking.


----------



## privatebydesign (Nov 9, 2019)

Sporgon said:


> Can someone just remind me what the practical difference is between a 20 mp sensor and a 24 ?


I’d see no real point in a 20 or 24 mp options, if they were to split the line, which they merged just two generations ago, it would need to be for a sizable difference that really impacted fps and data transfer speeds. I’d think something like 24mp and the rumored 80mp. But I really don’t think anything like that would happen, especially because I’d really like it to!

As for the difference between 20 and 24 as options, practically none, as a difference between a single model I’d say the real ‘problem’ with 20 is the inability to crop/straighten as much and still retain a decent ppi for printing, 24 gives a decent bit more leeway for issues like that than 20.


----------



## Danglin52 (Nov 9, 2019)

Joules said:


> Sure enough. The comment that sparked your remark didn't ask for anything all that unreasonable though. Using a sensor around 30 MP in the 1DX III would seem very realistic to me.
> 
> The EOS M6 II handles 14 FPS at 32.5 MP with full autofocus, despite being limited by a tiny form factor (bad for heat dissipation), a low capacity battery and a price tag that's only a fraction of what the 1DX III is expected to cost.
> 
> ...



I actually think their biggest reason to limit the camera to 24mp may be the tradeoff between resolution and high ISO performance. That said, the M6 II can shoot at 14 fps but it is limited to much shorter bursts and a small buffer. I feel the AF is also laggy as the shot counts increases with long bursts on erratic, fast moving subjects. The expectation for the 1dx III is that it will deliver consistent performance through the entire process whether you shoot 1 shot or a 75 shot burst. That consistency doesn't happen if you overload a processor. If you noticed on a previous CR article, Canon had a patent for a cooling system for a 1 series camera. The fact they were dedicating resources to study and patent this IP indicates heat is a significant issue. As I said above, I don't think it is beyond current technology to deliver a 30mpx 1dx III, it just may not be costs effective for development, components and manufacturing cost requirements when balanced against their perceived market. Personally, I would be thrilled with a 30mp sensor as long as it could deliver clean images at high ISO.


----------



## transpo1 (Nov 9, 2019)

Keith_Reeder said:


> Why? It's an arbitrary amount with no intrinsic "value" whatsoever.



It's not arbitrary to Canon's marketing department. Sony A9II = 24MP. Nikon D6 = probably greater than 21MP. Not to mention, prosumer cams like A7III and Fuji XT-3 are all at 24MP. I'm sure they'd like to hit that number.


----------



## slclick (Nov 10, 2019)

I'm just not happy if the sensors in the 5D's and up are driven by video specs. Bassakwards way to design a non video centric body. (Yes, video use for 1 and 5 series are in the minority)


----------



## SecureGSM (Nov 10, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> It always worked for Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott when the _Enterprise _required a massive overhaul of her warp drives to get out of a tight spot.


in current market, the 20Mp rumor may reinforce a hand of a Canon pro who is presently on the fence and has no clear visibility into the next upgrade cycle.

I would totally expect Canon spilling some beans uncovering the 1dx iii resolution range at least very very soon.

and before someone made a sarcastic comment that Canon should hire me to steer the market... well, I do enterprise markets for a larger enterprise for living..


----------



## Chris Charles (Nov 10, 2019)

No, it has a 61Mp sensor that by default produces 20.1 Mp files. The pixels are grouped in 3’s & the data averaged across them. In this mode you get almost noiseless images at very high ISO settings. This is Mode 1 & FPS is 20.

Mode 2 is similar but each of the 3 pixels in the group had a different ISO applied to give amazing HDR. FPS in this mode is 12.

Mode 3 is a regular image from a 61 Mp sensor. FPS in this mode is 8. Expect output at high ISO to be a small improvement on 5DsR.

So there you have it. 110% sure.


----------



## tron (Nov 10, 2019)

Chris Charles said:


> No, it has a 61Mp sensor that by default produces 20.1 Mp files. The pixels are grouped in 3’s & the data averaged across them. In this mode you get almost noiseless images at very high ISO settings. This is Mode 1 & FPS is 20.
> 
> Mode 2 is similar but each of the 3 pixels in the group had a different ISO applied to give amazing HDR. FPS in this mode is 12.
> 
> ...


Harry Film is that you?


----------



## Architect1776 (Nov 10, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I am guessing these are dedicated, special purpose components and processors that would be a significant expense to design and develop. Add software on top of that and you have a very complex, resources intensive and expensive process. I think we are spoiled by what we see with ARM processors used by Apple and other cell phone vendors. If you have a chip that is used by millions, you can cost justify the development and manufacturing infrastructure effort. The economics of scale is one reason that Sony has an advantage in sensor technology. They leverage development dollars across multiple sensor platforms. I don't doubt that current technology could be designed and adapted to address the throughput issues, but you might not be able to afford the camera. Once you put all of that together, you may also run into heat issues with processors and other components. Whether cameras or data centers, processing capacity and storage are ALWAYS an ongoing issue.



Why not use that chip and tech in ALL their cameras?
The 1DXIII would be built to 1D standards of durability and extra features. Just use the computing and other in all the cameras.
Wow that would really give Canon a leg up.


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## GoldWing (Nov 10, 2019)

30MP and keep 15fps RAW with mirror box. 20fps with mirror up if Canon needs that for their ego. As a sports photographer I see no reason for more than 15fps to get all the action with an OVF that has stunning focus. I would love 30MP for crops. We use big white primes, know our venues and sports. We purposely do not use an 800mm when we should be using a 600mm so we get the full shot. Most of the time we crop. Again... we crop.... 30MP would be that kick we need. I don't care if we need 2 256GB cards for each game or 1. The shots go tethered out to the truck or runners take our cards to editors during the game. Come on Canon give us 30MP "you can do it"


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## Michael Clark (Nov 10, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I actually think their biggest reason to limit the camera to 24mp may be the tradeoff between resolution and high ISO performance. That said, the M6 II can shoot at 14 fps but it is limited to much shorter bursts and a small buffer. I feel the AF is also laggy as the shot counts increases with long bursts on erratic, fast moving subjects. The expectation for the 1dx III is that it will deliver consistent performance through the entire process whether you shoot 1 shot or a 75 shot burst. That consistency doesn't happen if you overload a processor. If you noticed on a previous CR article, Canon had a patent for a cooling system for a 1 series camera. The fact they were dedicating resources to study and patent this IP indicates heat is a significant issue. As I said above, I don't think it is beyond current technology to deliver a 30mpx 1dx III, it just may not be costs effective for development, components and manufacturing cost requirements when balanced against their perceived market. Personally, I would be thrilled with a 30mp sensor as long as it could deliver clean images at high ISO.






Architect1776 said:


> Why not use that chip and tech in ALL their cameras?
> The 1DXIII would be built to 1D standards of durability and extra features. Just use the computing and other in all the cameras.
> Wow that would really give Canon a leg up.



The M6 Mark II has a single main processor. The latest 1-series cameras have dual DiG!C processors plus an additional AF/metering processor. Chuck Westfall said the AF/metering processor in the 1D X, which used Dual DiG!C 5+ image processors, was equivalent to a DiG!C 4.


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## Michael Clark (Nov 10, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> 30MP and keep 15fps RAW with mirror box. 20fps with mirror up if Canon needs that for their ego. As a sports photographer I see no reason for more than 15fps to get all the action with an OVF that has stunning focus. I would love 30MP for crops. We use big white primes, know our venues and sports. We purposely do not use an 800mm when we should be using a 600mm so we get the full shot. Most of the time we crop. Again... we crop.... 30MP would be that kick we need. I don't care if we need 2 256GB cards for each game or 1. The shots go tethered out to the truck or runners take our cards to editors during the game. Come on Canon give us 30MP "you can do it"



Honestly, how many events per year still have multiple major agencies there with multiple shooters and trucks/runners? Things aren't what they once were in that market.


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## Michael Clark (Nov 10, 2019)

Sporgon said:


> Can someone just remind me what the practical difference is between a 20 mp sensor and a 24 ?



Less than 10% in terms of linear numbers of pixels. 24 MP has 1.095445 pixels across the sensor for every 1.00000 pixels with a sensor the same size.


For a 3:2 aspect ratio its the difference between 6000x4000 and 5478x3652.


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## Michael Clark (Nov 10, 2019)

tron said:


> Harry Film is that you?



I doubt it. At least Harry knows how to use the "Reply" button so that we have a clue as to what comment his semi-rational diatribe is answering.


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## GoldWing (Nov 10, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Honestly, how many events per year still have multiple major agencies there with multiple shooters and trucks/runners? Things aren't what they once were in that market.


I've done four for 2019 so far and for 2020 will do many more because of Tokyo. I could do more if I wanted to but got hit by an athlete and lost two months work in July and Aug. Teams, Magazines, Agencies, Athletes, Sponsors all still pay for quality work and pay well.


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## gsealy (Nov 11, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> I've done four for 2019 so far and for 2020 will do many more because of Tokyo. I could do more if I wanted to but got hit by an athlete and lost two months work in July and Aug. Teams, Magazines, Agencies, Athletes, Sponsors all still pay for quality work and pay well.


Awesome. I have seen your compatriots work at big time golf tournaments. They never stop moving as the group they are following play the hole. It's a tough job walking over whatever the terrain is and keeping up taking photos. One day in Tucson the weather was atrocious with the temps in the low 40's and freezing rain. But there they were firing away with Canon 1d's.


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## ozturert (Nov 11, 2019)

It is OK, as long as there is bug-Eye AF


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## Architect1776 (Nov 11, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Canon needs a 30mp sensor minimum to really set it apart from the crowd.
It also must perform at the top tier in all aspects as well.
No more playing second fiddle. Yes, they are good and dependable. But they currently seem to be falling into the F-1 syndrome, good well built but not superior in all aspects to knock the competition out as the EOS system with the EF mount did 30+ years ago.


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## GMCPhotographics (Nov 11, 2019)

If this rumour is true (and I kind of think that it isn't), then there's not a lot of difference between a mkI / mkII or a mkIII. Sure a few Mp and a few fps...but that's not a whole lot of gain for what 5 years of development. It's true that there's not a lot of competition in the sports pro market, the Nikon offering seem to anger Nikon users regularly and the 1Dx is a stable platform. It seems bizarre that Canon would want to hinder the 1DxIII when it's likely to be the last 1Dx before mirrorless becomes a serious contender. Why not leave on a high like the 5DV is likely to be doing? 
Sure I hear all the media types saying they they don't want a 30mp 16fps camera due to bandwidth etc etc...but that's one niche. This is what happens when Canon try to condense all pros into one unified body. That's why we had a 1D and 1Ds series before and it's why the 5D got up specced to a pro body camera.


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## SecureGSM (Nov 11, 2019)

You can be rest assured that Canon Execs aren’t idiots. They absolutely going to make you wanting this camera and they know what it takes to get your Juices flow.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 11, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Canon needs a 30mp sensor minimum to really set it apart from the crowd.
> It also must perform at the top tier in all aspects as well.
> No more playing second fiddle. Yes, they are good and dependable. But they currently seem to be falling into the F-1 syndrome, good well built but not superior in all aspects to knock the competition out as the EOS system with the EF mount did 30+ years ago.


Except Canon are the camera manufacturing leaders by a long way, so surely it is the others that need to set themselves apart and stop playing second fiddle.

As leaders they do not need to set themselves apart, they arrived at the position they did because of their conservative approach and constant behind the scenes research and development while maintaining a very keen eye on controlling costs.


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## Architect1776 (Nov 11, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Except Canon are the camera manufacturing leaders by a long way, so surely it is the others that need to set themselves apart and stop playing second fiddle.
> 
> As leaders they do not need to set themselves apart, they arrived at the position they did because of their conservative approach and constant behind the scenes research and development while maintaining a very keen eye on controlling costs.



My concern is becoming too conservative. As I mentioned they developed the EOS system and yes were the last into a real AF system and it was stunning crushing the competition for 30 years. Now 30 years later this RF mount is another opportunity to leap ahead by another 30 years.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 11, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> If this rumour is true (and I kind of think that it isn't), then there's not a lot of difference between a mkI / mkII or a mkIII. Sure a few Mp and a few fps...but that's not a whole lot of gain for what 5 years of development. It's true that there's not a lot of competition in the sports pro market, the Nikon offering seem to anger Nikon users regularly and the 1Dx is a stable platform. It seems bizarre that Canon would want to hinder the 1DxIII when it's likely to be the last 1Dx before mirrorless becomes a serious contender. Why not leave on a high like the 5DV is likely to be doing?
> Sure I hear all the media types saying they they don't want a 30mp 16fps camera due to bandwidth etc etc...but that's one niche. This is what happens when Canon try to condense all pros into one unified body. That's why we had a 1D and 1Ds series before and it's why the 5D got up specced to a pro body camera.


That’s the big lie behind Canon generational upgrades when you look mainly at spec sheets. When you actually use the cameras those small spec sheet differences add up to a noticeably 'better’ package. Take a look at the 6D and 6D MkII owners vs reviewers, I didn’t see a positive review of the MkII until we started getting MkI owner reviews, turns out DR isn't everything even back then when it lacked current sensors, every 5 series camera cycle has been criticized in early reviews as being too little too late. Same with the 1DX I to II, yet owners love their upgrades in the long run almost without exception.

Also don’t forget the DSLR is a very mature technology, other than details like illuminated buttons etc what is there to do, any move to include hybrid tech viewfinders is going to alienate the core market, die hard SLR buyers. sensor efficiency and readout speeds are approaching physical limits.

We had a 1D and 1DS series previously because the full frame sensor was very expensive and inefficient to produce, also readout and buffering speeds were limited by the available technology of the time. Canon have decided only the low resolution pro sports and wire service providing photographers need the durability of the 1 series body, the people previously served by the 1DS series now have to choose between durability and resolution. For my uses I choose durability though I would love an 80mp 1 series, but I appreciate my market (the actual purchasers rather than the forum warriors who say they would) is to small to cater to.


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## Michael Clark (Nov 12, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> I've done four for 2019 so far and for 2020 will do many more because of Tokyo. I could do more if I wanted to but got hit by an athlete and lost two months work in July and Aug. Teams, Magazines, Agencies, Athletes, Sponsors all still pay for quality work and pay well.



Yeah, but those used to be a weekly occurrence at multiple NFL games, NCAAF games, NBA games, MLB games, etc.


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## GoldWing (Nov 12, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Yeah, but those used to be a weekly occurrence at multiple NFL games, NCAAF games, NBA games, MLB games, etc.


Yes I'm semi retired and lucky I can work when I want to. I've mentored two very talented photographers and have them both working fulltime on the East and Westcoast with plans for another to be based in South Florida to also cover the Caribbean and LATAM for a lot of watersports too.

We all agree that a 30MP 1DXMKIII would allow for a lot of latitude when a crop is involved and that's very often.


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## tpatana (Nov 12, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> Yes I'm semi retired and lucky I can work when I want to. I've mentored two very talented photographers and have them both working fulltime on the East and Westcoast with plans for another to be based in South Florida to also cover the Caribbean and LATAM for a lot of watersports too.
> 
> We all agree that a 30MP 1DXMKIII would allow for a lot of latitude when a crop is involved and that's very often.



That's awesome. I have my eye on getting to cover MLS/NFL in Seattle, but it's not that easy it seems. I already cover my (niche) sport pretty good, tough to really say but I think I'm quite at the top in the world for active shooters on that. Covered last two Worlds pretty good, and I'm already planning for the next one in Paris in 2021. Next summer US nationals for sure too, plus all the local(-ish) competitions. Biggest question for me is if I'm buying 1DX3 before or after the nationals. Most likely before.

But getting MLS/NFL action would be fun too as that's different from my sports, I always love to try new things to see if I like it or not. One time I got ring-side at cage-fighting event. Got plenty decent pictures although didn't really enjoy the sports enough to go again. If any of your photographers need second shooter at Seattle events, feel free to ping me.


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## Alino (Nov 13, 2019)

Here is a crude copy of what is write in the PhotoPlus UK magazine issue 159 december 2019.

"
CANON has officially announced its new flagship pro camera, the Canon EOS-lD X Mark III is in developrnent - and it boosts a new AF sensor with 28 times the résolution of its predecesor, a new Dîgîc processor. AF deep Learning algorithm, 4K 60fps video. 20fps stills shooting, CFexpress storage and "hybrid" mirrorless qualities.
The EOS-1D X Mark III celebrates 30 years os the EOS-1 series by caturing some of the most advanced technology ever seen in a Canon camera. Proudly proclamed as, "The ultimate camera for sports and wildlife" that ushers in "A new era of AF speed ans accuracy", the 1D X Mark III's headline feature is undoubtedly its autofocus parformance. It feature brand new AF sensor with 28 times the resolution of the Mark II - which already has an acurate 360 000 pixel RGB-IR sensor.
Combined with the bleeding-edge AF deep learning algotithm, it promises truly performance!; "This is an autofocus system we haven't seen before", David Parry, Canon UK's product intelligence specialist told us. This is something very new, very different. "An all new Digic processor will also create the necessary horsepower for 4K, 60fps, with 10 bit HEIF (High Efficiency Image File) image file it produces - yes, Canon is abandoning JPEGs!
The 1D X Mark III will also have SD and CompactFlash cards for cutting edge.
CFexpress memory ( witch it needs when handling internal Raw 4K 10 bit video and ridiculus bursts of image.
The bustering continuous shooting specs exploit the strengths of both mirrorless ans DSLR capabilities at 20 frames per second with AF and AE when shooting in Live View mode (via mechanical or electronic shutter), and 16 frames when using the completely lag free optical viewfinder: "You can use it like a DSLR or use it like a mirrortless. It realy does feel like that". Perry told us."

I don't know if it was reported yet.


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## tpatana (Nov 13, 2019)

Alino said:


> horsepower for 4K, 60fps, with 10 bit HEIF (High Efficiency Image File) image file it produces - yes, Canon is abandoning JPEGs!



Why they compare it to jpeg? Is it less quality than raw then?



> The 1D X Mark III will also have SD and CompactFlash cards for cutting edge.
> CFexpress memory ( witch it needs when handling internal Raw 4K 10 bit video and ridiculus bursts of image.



3 slots? SD/CF/CFX? Tough to believe...


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## Alino (Nov 13, 2019)

My bad, the text is:

The 1D X Mark III will also eschew SD and CompactFlash cards for cutting edge CFexpress memory ( witch it needs when handling internal Raw 4K 10 bit video and ridiculus bursts of image.


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## SecureGSM (Nov 13, 2019)

I am pretty sure Canon is NOT abandoning JPEG. Please correct that. HEIF will be offered as an alternative along with JPEG and RAW. 
This has been mentioned is in the Canon’s recent DPR interview.


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## Joules (Nov 13, 2019)

Alino said:


> I don't know if it was reported yet.


Yes, except for the quote saying the new AF system will differ from previous ones, this information and more can be found on the official Canon announcement:









Canon Announces Development of the New EOS-1D X Mark III Flagship DSLR Camera


SINGAPORE, 24 October 2019 – Canon announced today that development is underway on the EOS-1D X Mark III, the newest entry in the EOS-1 series highly trusted by ...




asia.canon





I also think the article got something wrong, as HEIF being a replacement for JPEG seems silly and not mentioned elsewhere.


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## Alino (Nov 13, 2019)

This is what is reported!


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## SecureGSM (Nov 13, 2019)

Alino said:


> This is what is reported!











Canon EOS-1D X III interview: We speak to the 'father of the EOS-1'


It's not every day you get to speak to the man who's had a hand in the design of every professional Canon SLR since the T90.




m.dpreview.com






Please read line in bold below. Emphasis is mine. 

Canon EOS-1D X Mark III - key specifications (what we know so far):

All-new CMOS sensor
Dual-pixel 525-point CMOS AF with 90/100% coverage horizontally and vertically
New Digic Processor
*10-bit HEIF file capture (in addition to JPEG and Raw)*
Max 16fps capture via viewfinder, and 20fps in live view (with AF)
Dual CF Express card slots
10-bit, 4:2:2 4K/60 video with C-Log
Backlit buttons


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## AccipiterQ (Nov 13, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Not really. The 20.2MP 7D Mark II has the same pixel size as the 50MP 5Ds/5Ds R. Keep in mind that a FF sensor is 1.6X longer and 1.6X taller, for a total area that is 2.56X Canon's APS-C crop sensors.
> 
> A FF 28MP sensor has the same pixel density as an 11MP (10.9375) APS-C sensor.


As someone noted above I forgot the crop was linear, doh


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## Hector1970 (Nov 13, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> It always worked for Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott when the _Enterprise _required a massive overhaul of her warp drives to get out of a tight spot.


She cannae take any more that 20MP Captain, She's gonna blow!


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## SteveC (Nov 13, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> She cannae take any more that 20MP Captain, She's gonna blow!



Well, with cameras, "warp" does mean something different...


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