# Weak LP-e6 battery



## RGF (Jun 22, 2013)

At least I wonder if it is weak. Battery check on my 5DM3 shows 2, not 3, bars as condition. Does this mean anything? 

Thanks

Rich


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2013)

Just means it's getting up there in cycle count. It still has quite a bit of life left, so keep shooting!


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## RGF (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks. I downloaded the manual onto iPad and read up on.

I should remember engage brain first (or do a google search) before asking a question


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 22, 2013)

I've never noticed a issue with a two star battery, it happens to me after a year or two. I've never actually had to replace a LP-E6, I've sold my cameras with batteries before any failed, which means some lasted at least 4 years.

I've learned to write the date I put them into service on the label just so I know which is new and which is old. Canon now puts a date on the battery, but I still mark them.


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## insanitybeard (Jun 22, 2013)

Both my LP-E6's dropped to 2 squares recharge performance instead of 3 after 12-18 months approx. use on my 7D, they've been doing that for the last 18 months or so, have had no battery issues so far, like Neuro says, just means they've had a bit of use and aren't recharging quite as well as they did when new.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2013)

I suspect these batteries would benefit from calibration. Apple has recommended periodic calibration of the LiPo batteries in their laptops (charge to full, drain to empty, recharge to full). The LC-E4N charger can run a calibration cycle, and the 1D X tells you when one is needed.


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## AvTvM (Jun 22, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I suspect these batteries would benefit from calibration. Apple has recommended periodic calibration of the LiPo batteries in their laptops (charge to full, drain to empty, recharge to full). The LC-E4N charger can run a calibration cycle, and the 1D X tells you when one is needed.



Possibly. But ... original Canon LC-E6 charger for LP-E6 does not offer anything other than "regular charging" cycle. It can neither discharge nor calibrate. 

I don't know whether third-party chargers with calibration cycle capability are available. Based on a bad experience with a defect third-party battery for Canon (NB-2LH ripoff) I will personally not again experiment with third-party batteries or chargers for Canon cameras. 

My 3 LP-E6 batteries are all down to only 1 "health bullet" after 4 years of use in my 7D [somewhat more than 30k klicks] although I mainly used 2 of them in the battery grip and the third one only as spare, rarely used. But so far all 3 work OK.


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## RGF (Jun 22, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I suspect these batteries would benefit from calibration. Apple has recommended periodic calibration of the LiPo batteries in their laptops (charge to full, drain to empty, recharge to full). The LC-E4N charger can run a calibration cycle, and the 1D X tells you when one is needed.



I have had to recalibrate batteries for my 1D series cameras. I don't think there is a calibration for the 5D batteries


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2013)

The LC-E4N and LP-E6 have the same internal chemistry (as do their other batteries). Canon provides an easy way to calibrate the 1-series battery, but not the others. I'm just saying the LC-E6 _would_ benefit from calibration, not that Canon provides an easy way to do that.


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## RGF (Jun 23, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> The LC-E4N and LP-E6 have the same internal chemistry (as do their other batteries). Canon provides an easy way to calibrate the 1-series battery, but not the others. I'm just saying the LC-E6 _would_ benefit from calibration, not that Canon provides an easy way to do that.



Good point. Canon unfortunately removes any key features from it prosumer cameras.


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## insanitybeard (Jun 24, 2013)

I try as far as possible to completely discharge the LP-E6 in camera (so it will no longer power the camera) before I recharge it, though I'm not sure if this really makes much difference to battery life/ recharge performance.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 24, 2013)

insanitybeard said:


> I try as far as possible to completely discharge the LP-E6 in camera (so it will no longer power the camera) before I recharge it, though I'm not sure if this really makes much difference to battery life/ recharge performance.



If anything, that's worse. Li-ion batteries are better used frequently but lightly. Frequent full discharges will actually reduce overall longevity.


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## insanitybeard (Jun 24, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> insanitybeard said:
> 
> 
> > I try as far as possible to completely discharge the LP-E6 in camera (so it will no longer power the camera) before I recharge it, though I'm not sure if this really makes much difference to battery life/ recharge performance.
> ...



:-[ oops! Thanks neuro, I'll bear it in mind!


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## Canon1 (Jun 24, 2013)

RGF said:


> At least I wonder if it is weak. Battery check on my 5DM3 shows 2, not 3, bars as condition. Does this mean anything?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rich



I saw this on a DP Review Forum: I can't attest to the authenticity... but it does make sense to me. Original thread:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2506860

"I sent a note to Chuck Westfall asking:

"How does one "recalibrate" an LP-E6?"

His response was:

"...The answer to your question is; "You don't."

The section of the article you referenced is in error on this point, and it will be changed soon. Our apologies for any confusion the article may have caused.

Meanwhile, please refer to pages 28 and 192 in the EOS 5D Mark II instruction booklet for information on using the Battery Info screen properly. Bottom line, if the Recharge Performance indicator turns red, that battery pack should be discarded...""


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## mrsfotografie (Jul 6, 2013)

This morning one of my LP-E6's dropped to the last 'red' indicator. I've been shooting with it all day - 242 photo's and I'm at 76% charge. I wonder what's the benefit of this feature other than making photographers unduly worried and tempted to replace batteries that are still in good working order. It definitely is a drawback if you want to sell used kit...


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## AvTvM (Jul 6, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> It definitely is a drawback if you want to sell used kit...



only for sellers who claim the goods are "barely used" and "like new". I am very happy about the transparency, since it protects buyers of used gear from those crooks. 

Other than that ... even when the batteries drop to their last red bar nobody is forced to immediately dispatch them if they still work sufficiently well.


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## comsense (Jul 6, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> insanitybeard said:
> 
> 
> > I try as far as possible to completely discharge the LP-E6 in camera (so it will no longer power the camera) before I recharge it, though I'm not sure if this really makes much difference to battery life/ recharge performance.
> ...


Some myths are impossible to break. Re-posting something I had posted earlier here. Neuro, timescales are very important here. It's good to let your camera/laptop die if you are going to put battery back on charger soon enough (less than months; conservatively few weeks; absolutely paranoid - days)....
If using your battery till your camera/laptop dies was so bad, there will be some note in the product manual (not every corporation is evil trying to sell as many batteries as possible). Or even better, Canon/Apple would make your device shut down before the threshold that effect the overall battery life. Its not something hard to do. What you are talking about is called deep discharge. If you store the depleted Li-Ion battery for long term (months), it may discharge below threshold and open built in safety circuit that would brick the battery. So its absolutely safe to use the battery till your camera is dead if you are going to put it back in charger immediately or soon enough.
However, since the charge cycle is additive (meaning discharging the battery to 50% and recharging to twice would count as 1 cycle instead of 2) you can recharge it whenever you want without worrying about depleting cycles. Now here is a catch - After 30 cycles or so, repeated partial discharge could create a digital memory leading to faulty power gauge. So still the best practice would be to let them deplete to near complete discharge (not deep discharge) i.e. using till camera is dead but charge them back immediately. Always store them at full charge or at least 50% or more.
Single data point statement aka blog wisdom: Have used all Li-Ion batteries this was and my batteries always outlast the device or live way past stated optimal cycles (One laptop battery lasted record 5+ years with good amount of use).


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## mrsfotografie (Jul 7, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > It definitely is a drawback if you want to sell used kit...
> ...



True enough, I just wonder how reliable this feature is as an indication of battery life. And what is 'recharge performance' anyway? I don't care if it takes a little longer to charge them as long as the capacity remains sufficient.


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## alexanderferdinand (Jul 7, 2013)

My 2 - bar LP E6 takes more shots than the newer 3 - bar. As long as I can trust the percentage, the cameras show.
I don't drain a LiIon cell till it's empty.
Only my 1 - bar LP E 6 seems to be weaker, around 80%.
Like Neuro said, some internal counter causes the effect.


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## mrsfotografie (Jul 7, 2013)

alexanderferdinand said:


> My 2 - bar LP E6 takes more shots than the newer 3 - bar. As long as I can trust the percentage, the cameras show.
> I don't drain a LiIon cell till it's empty.
> Only my 1 - bar LP E 6 seems to be weaker, around 80%.
> Like Neuro said, some internal counter causes the effect.



I recharge them mostly around the 30-40% mark. Lowest I've had one go is about 15% and that was yesterday (I forgot to check the status of the battery before going out shooting).


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## alexanderferdinand (Jul 7, 2013)

Dear Mrs!

After reading many pages in the net, manuals it seems the best to keep a LiIon cell between 40 and 80%.
The draining it totally and recharge it full seems to "calibrate" a system, so it knows, how many energy is left.

The totally charge/discharge has its origin in using NiCd cells on satellites. They had many cycles the same charge/discharge, and then they weren't able to charge more.

BTW: I once drained my LP E 6, they closed down somewhere around 22, 24%.
It seems, your camera knows your cells better.

Always good light

Alexanderferdinand, Austria


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## comsense (Jul 7, 2013)

And the myths defeat the science, logic and common sense again :


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## SwissBear (Jul 7, 2013)

I use my cells till they are dead or better said, the camera shuts down and doesnt release anymore. Then i grab my backup cell, hope its charged, and normally i then go on (or go crying...).
LiIon cells hold some 95% of capacity for 2 years after leaving the factory or some 500 cycles (a cycle means charging, doesnt matter whether it's 30% or full charge), after that the degradation starts. That is chemistry or physics - choose whichever you trust more 
But the advantage of LiIon cells is: no memory effect, that was the case with NiMh cells.

So the conclusion for LiIon cells: use as long as the last, the built-in security against discharge kicks in way before any damage may occure, if you recharge in a few days (as mentioned before), recharge when empty, not before.

The best storage charge is 40% or 3.75V in a dry, noncondesing environment at ~0-4° Celsius (sealed, rice filled box in the fridge), but be cautious: 0% in camera means still a save (but totally unknown) level above the critical discharge, where the cell dies.
A measurement of the "empty" voltage would be interesting...


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## RGF (Jul 14, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> insanitybeard said:
> 
> 
> > I try as far as possible to completely discharge the LP-E6 in camera (so it will no longer power the camera) before I recharge it, though I'm not sure if this really makes much difference to battery life/ recharge performance.
> ...



Interesting. The opposite of NiMH batteries which have memories


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