# If you plan to upgrade your camera, read



## duydaniel (Sep 7, 2013)

Hi there,

I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Upgrade your glass instead.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> I feel...



You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion. Others may feel differently. 

You're suggesting that upgrading from a Rebel to a 7D is a waste of money because they have the same sensor size, and personally I don't think that's good advice.


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## FTb-n (Sep 7, 2013)

It all depends upon what you shoot. I did upgrade from a 60D to a 7D and saw a huge increase in my keeper rate for sports shots. If shooting sports and a 5D3 is too expensive, I would certainly recommend a 70D as an upgrade to a 60D.


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## Don Haines (Sep 7, 2013)

Yes, sell your 7D and get a 6D. Who needs the better autofocus, weather sealing, faster frame rate......

If we all had the same needs Canon would have 1 camera model that all could afford.


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## dgatwood (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.



Not at all true. The difference between, for example, an original Rebel and even the venerable XTi is significant (6.3 MP vs. 10.1 MP). The difference between the XTi and the 70D can be significant (10.1 MP vs. 20.2 MP) if you're trying to do significant enlarging, though only if there's enough light to not require massive noise reduction.

Also, in terms of light gathering, the 70D's maximum ISO of 25600 blows away the paltry ISO 1600 maximum on an unmodified XTi. The 70D is actually fairly clean at ISO levels higher than the XTi is even capable of providing at all.

Although it is true that, assuming perfect detection of every single photon, sensor image quality is inherently limited by the sensor size, in reality, the rate of detection has improved dramatically over the past decade, the electrical noise floor of various electronic bits has improved, and the ability of chips to dissipate heat (which would otherwise cause thermal noise) has improved as well. All of these things have a significant impact on image quality, too. There's certainly reason to believe that we're approaching a limit beyond which future advancements will get harder and harder, and that the amount of improvement in each successive generation of sensor is likely to get smaller and smaller. That means that unless you care about the new body features (e.g. Wi-Fi), you're going to need to wait a greater number of generations to get a significant benefit out of a crop-to-crop upgrade. That doesn't mean that there won't come a time when an upgrade will be valuable, however; we're not yet to the point of having perfect detection of every photon.

And even if we don't improve the percentage of photons detected at all, there would still be room for improvement at the crop body sensor size. As plenoptic sensors become more capable, we might see those show up in crop body cameras. Imagine being able to correct focus errors just as easily as we correct exposure errors today.

Also, cameras are more than just a sensor. The other hardware limits what you can usefully do with the camera as well. For example:


If you have an old enough crop body, you don't have video capabilities.
The 70D adds Wi-Fi.
The 70D has significantly better focusing capability than most (all?) existing crop bodies.

Heck, we might even see GPS in some future crop body, and for many people, that would be a feature worth paying for.

That's why sweeping generalizations like yours are harmful. They often mislead people who don't know any better into thinking that a camera is nothing more than a sensor, and that sensor technology has no more room to improve. Both of those two beliefs are very, very wrong.

Now if you had said that there's little reason to upgrade from a 60D to a 70D, most folks would agree with you. However, your claim implies that there's little reason to upgrade from a 300D (6.3 MP, max ISO 1600, no video, no Wi-Fi, 7 AF points, no cross points, f/5.6 minimum autofocus aperture) to a 70D (5 MP, max ISO 25600, video, Wi-Fi, 19 AF points, 19 cross points, f/11 minimum autofocus aperture in live view mode), which is just plain laughable.


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## duydaniel (Sep 7, 2013)

you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise


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## Don Haines (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> you are taking an extreme view here.
> Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
> The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise


An in-focus picture beats one that is out of focus....

An action shot at that special instant beats one that missed it..... Higher burst rates really help here.


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> you are taking an extreme view here.
> Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
> The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise



There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.


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## duydaniel (Sep 7, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > you are taking an extreme view here.
> ...



Absolutely true. Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.
Those who need high frame rate already bought a 7D. 

Do you want improvement in IQ, most importantly is glass, then sensor size
upgrading T2i -> T3i -> T4i ... is a no no

People can argue about weather sealing and I agree however unless you have 1DX, you can't shoot under rain all days.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
> They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.



Sure, because it's not like 'regular consumers' have kids that play sports, right? :


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## jebrady03 (Sep 7, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
> ...



Also, not a lot of "regular consumers" on this site. So, to whom is the original message tailored?


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## brad-man (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > duydaniel said:
> ...



What you _meant_ to say was that all of Canon's current APS-C sensor cameras have close enough IQ to each other so that (if you have no need of improved AF, frame rate, build quality or ergonomics) it makes more sense to upgrade your glass rather than to another APS-C body. Thank you, that's very helpful


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## davidson (Sep 7, 2013)

damn, this means that when i want to upgrade my 6d that i need to go medium format....


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## Don Haines (Sep 7, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
> ...



And none of us shoot with an introductory camera, have our skills grow, learn new interests, and decide to upgrade to a better crop camera, yet deliberately decide to not get a FF camera...

I am waiting for the 7D2.... If you shoot crop and already have a 400mm lens and your camera criteria are pixels on the target, af, and weatherproofing, the only upgrade from the 7D is the 1DX and a 600mm lens..... A very expensive jump that few can afford.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 7, 2013)

*I went from:*
1. 40D to 60D - swivel screen
2. 60D to 7D - better AF
3. 7D to 5D II - better high ISO
4. 5D II to 5D III - better AF + high ISO

5. 5D III to FF mirrorless + a lot of pancake lenses. I don't care who making it - Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji etc....If AF speed is x2 - x3 faster than current RX1, I'm ready to convert.


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## Sporgon (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...



I want a better viewfinder and much faster frame rate for shooting fast action. Tried taking your advice and put my 135L on the Rebel, but the viewfinders no better and it just wont shoot any faster no matter how hard I press the shutter.


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## Famateur (Sep 7, 2013)

brad-man said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > mrsfotografie said:
> ...



That's a great way to restate it. I think the OP meant to offer wisdom about how buying new glass may be a better long term decision than upgrading from the last generation of crop body to the current/new generation. At the same time, just like me, he's a sample of one -- others may have more compelling reasons to upgrade even with a seemingly small improvement in sensor performance.



mrsfotografie said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > you are taking an extreme view here.
> ...



Agreed. I'll even go a bit further and say that there's more to image quality than absolute sensor performance in ideal conditions. I submit that image quality is often the misnomer used in place of _maximum sensor capability_. 

It sounds like the OP may have meant to say that the _maximum sensor capability_ of the newest generation of crop cameras is not a compelling enough reason to upgrade. That may be true. However, in my opinion, image quality is about exposure, focus, sharpness (even non-hardware-related factors like subject matter and composition). To paraphrase others on this thread, an image from a highly capable sensor and top-of-the-line lens doesn't have much "quality" if it's out of focus or the shot was missed with a slow frame rate.

I guess to sum up:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Investment in high-quality lenses is great advice.
[*]Sensor capability is improving at a slower rate than in the past.
[*]Camera systems are still adding useful features that affect image quality, regardless of sensor capability.
[/list]

For some, their style of shooting may mean that going with #1 will bring the biggest improvement in final image quality (studio, landscapes, etc.). For those whose subjects move faster and unpredictably or in less-than-ideal conditions, a new camera body that falls into #3 might make more sense for what they need.

As always, this is just my opinion which only _really _matters to me.


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## Famateur (Sep 7, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > Hi there,
> ...



LOL...that didn't work? Dang! I was going to try that...


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## duydaniel (Sep 7, 2013)

so much troll going on but thanks 





Famateur said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > duydaniel said:
> ...


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## alexanderferdinand (Sep 7, 2013)

Love my 5D, love my 1Dmk4.
Different tracks, different horses (we had this before here?).
And what would my next upgrade be from my 5D?
Hmm....


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> so much troll going on



They're not hard to spot...but in case you're having trouble, one of these might help you find the troll here... :


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## rs (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...


Does this mean that should you already have a FF body, it's a waste of money buying another, no matter what improved features it has? Medium format is the only upgrade path?


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 7, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...



Thats a great hook.

If you plan to.

Anybody with a DSLR who plans to live more than say 5 years, will probably be considering at some point a move forward with the latest tech.

135 / leica / minature format sensor DSLRs are great, some like the 5D3 seem really terrific, and the 1DX seems superlative.

So I have to agree, that really is sound advice. Go to a larger sensor DSLR.

Brilliant.


Thanks for that.


I hadn't realised before you made it clear. 

I'm not going to follow your advice though.

135 / leica / minature format would give me a couple of problems.

1. I'd only really be able to stretch to a 6D or a used 5D2. (and I need better AF than that for my stills, ok needs a bit strong, would like.

2. I'd have to buy new lenses to cover my UWA and WA. Each at a cost similar to a very good cropped sensor body that my lenses already fit (this is on top of the cost of the 135 / leica / minature format body.

3. I would need 3 bodies to replicate what I have just now. None would have they very useful flip out screen like my 600D. None would fit in my pocket like the M. On a video shoot I usually have 2 x bodies, to save switching lenses all the time and for 2 angle interviews . So I would need at least 2x bodies.

So the cost is racking up, but heres one final operational difference which is a deal breaker for me..

I don't like 135 / leica / minature format bodies for video. The focusing becomes hyper critical. The APS-C format cameras are much easier to live with in my opinion. So even if the 135 / leica / minature format DSLRS weren't at least triple the price of a rebel, I still wouldn't be all that bothered about having one.

You love yours, health to use it, but it's a broad old church this photography lark, don't assume my needs are yours or vice versa. If I ask you what I should buy then feel free to give your advice, but it does smack of flaming and trolling to suddenly proclaim aloud in a must-read post that your way is the only way.

I've had a look through your posts and you're not generally a troll or flamer, this post seems like an abberation rather than the norm.


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## dgatwood (Sep 7, 2013)

brad-man said:


> What you _meant_ to say was that all of Canon's current APS-C sensor cameras have close enough IQ to each other so that (if you have no need of improved AF, frame rate, build quality or ergonomics) it makes more sense to upgrade your glass rather than to another APS-C body.



And even that is only true because Canon hasn't significantly changed their sensors in several years. If and when Canon decides to increase their megapixel count, it will again be worthwhile to upgrade, assuming you are taking pictures in bright enough light to actually usefully take advantage of the extra resolution.

What you will probably not get out of a crop body upgrade any time soon is dramatically better photos in low light at this point. Admittedly, there's at least a factor of two potential improvement in quantum efficiency, but actually achieving much more than a few percent is likely to require new materials.


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## cellomaster27 (Sep 7, 2013)

rs said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > Hi there,
> ...



Haha I knew from the title this was very fishy. I really can't disagree from anyone but this viewpoint so strongly put. I'm not a pro-tog or someone who makes a living off photography and so this really wouldn't help me. Upgrading from a rebel or aps-c sensor dslr, I don't totally disagree BUT what's wrong with them? If you are on a budget of some sort, you won't go out and buy a couple 5D3's or 1Dx's and 20k worth of lenses. In a fantasy world, heck I would buy that and more!

Anyways, and IQ... Seriously. You go medium format. You'll be happy.. I think. ill stay with the same 18mp sensor and not complain. I'm not gonna print something huge anyways.. My camera pulls some amazing photos! And 18 mp is MORE than enough. Someone say amen?? XD

Oh! And sensor is important but EVERYTHING else is important too! At least for me, ergonomics, fps, versatile, etc.. Like in a earlier discussion on eos-m.. It has the same sensor! (Well maybe not exactly) but its 18mp. Now if someone was to "upgrade" from an eos-m to a rebel or xxD series, I would push for it. That's an upgrade with the basic same 18mp sensor. I look at the overall general package. I think that's really important. 

I sorta appreciate this kind of discussion.. Back to the basics. Don't disagree with the lens upgrade but I think you're wrong with the body upgrade.


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## Jim K (Sep 8, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.



Does that mean I should wait for the rumored medium format Canon? I already own a 5D3.


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## tiger82 (Sep 8, 2013)

I think having APS-C, APS-H, and FF offers more flexibility when coupled with lots of L glass.


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 8, 2013)

For what it's worth, canon have long since stopped selling rubbish EF only glass (kit f3.5-5.6 lenses) the 75-300's are probably the last you can buy new. Please note, I said 75-300's not 70-300's.

So it's good ef primes or decent entry level L zooms to start with.

It's also true that the APS-C cameras really sing with nice glass. The plastic EF-s kit lenses are now great value for what most hobby, occassional, family photographers need. Canon do a great job of producing kit that can give great results, with little technical aptitude for little money.

This is a sincere sentiment. And why 20 years after struggling to switch on my EOS 1000fn I'm still with the system.

If you have an APS-C camera, better glass will give you better images. Not rocket science that one, but it's true. And you needn't spend the earth. Fling in a nifty fifty or shorty forty. Move onto an 85 or 100mm fast prime as a treat.

Something that will bring your rebels AF to life.

The Big cameras ARE better, but if you can't get a good pic with nice glass on a rebel with the right settings then you are doing something wrong.

Hell, I've seen some folk with the best of gear getting dross results.

The call to spend on glass is usually good. The call to insist on 135 / leica / minature format is not. Not for everybody. For some folk photography is just an enjoyable passtime, regardless of how much money is spent on the kit. And a rebel is up to that expectation and far beyond.


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## jdramirez (Sep 8, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> *I went from:*
> 1. 40D to 60D - swivel screen
> 2. 60D to 7D - better AF
> 3. 7D to 5D II - better high ISO
> ...



I really miss my swivel screen. about half the time w h en I use live view I wish I had it back.


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## Daniel Flather (Sep 8, 2013)

If the OP wants the best IQ only, then the OP needs an 8x10 view camera with the best lenses and best wet darkroom or killer digital back-end. Cuz it's all about media size, right?


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## Dylan777 (Sep 8, 2013)

jdramirez said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > *I went from:*
> ...



Me too. I recently bought RX100 II. The tilt screen is quite handy when shooting kids.


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## Harry Muff (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm not even going to engage in this silliness, just to point out that this man is either an idiot or a troll.




Let's not encourage him, eh?


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## captainkanji (Sep 8, 2013)

"Upgrading" from a 7D to a 6D to shoot sports is a horrible idea. I was shooting some action and it was a huge pain in the rear. I ended up having to shoot wide with the center point and crop. Action really benefits from the joystick and extra points/zones. The shots I did get look fantastic, but I had to shoot so many to get them. Fortunately, I almost never shoot action. I have the perfect camera for a convention shooter (who is poor)  If action shooting is in my future, "downgrading" to a 7D2 is an option.


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## greger (Sep 8, 2013)

Interesting opinion and statements. I agree that buying every new Rebel that comes out is not a good use of savings.
XXD's don't always warrant an automatic upgrade. I think my L glass purchases are on hold. I would like a 16-35 f2.8
but my 17-85 has gained new life thanks to my 7D which has made my error 99 - 40D a dusty paperweight. I shot 83 
pics yesterday with my 7D and 17-85 and am quite happy with the pics that I got. I should have swapped with my 100
Macro when trying to take a pic of a spider on it's web. Oh well maybe next time. 17-85 is a good range for a walk around
zoom lens. A faster shutter speed and better optics would be nice. Are you listening Canon? Then I might consider a new
L lens purchase. I don't think I'll buy a new camera until the 7D wears out. I need a new all in one and maybe a new 
Laptop. But the 70D is very interesting as an upgrade for my wife.


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## pulseimages (Sep 8, 2013)

The OP is a bit of a goof.


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 8, 2013)

Oops I posted my OM question in completely the wrong thread, sorry!


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## Joe M (Sep 8, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...



I find it interesting that you "feel" the only factor that matters in a camera is the sensor size. I suppose that means by this logic, my upgrade from the 5D3 will be a camera with a larger sensor and I should avoid the 5D4, 5D5 and so on? As I said, interesting.


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## AlanF (Sep 8, 2013)

It feels strange that no one has mentioned better DR as a reason for upgrading.


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## jdramirez (Sep 8, 2013)

I went from an xs to a 60d and even though my lone lens at the time was the nifty fifty, I was more than happy with the performance and my decision to upgrade. 

could I have spent the money on lenses, yes, but the lenses I could afford at the time would have left me wanting more.


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## mkabi (Sep 8, 2013)

Daniel Flather said:


> If the OP wants the best IQ only, then the OP needs an 8x10 view camera with the best lenses and best wet darkroom or killer digital back-end. Cuz it's all about media size, right?



Don't waste your time.
It looks like the OP upgraded from a rebel to a 6D, and "thinks" that he knows what he is talking about.

But, in that perspective, moving from one rebel to the next is a waste of money, given that one can save his/her money and upgrade to a FF camera.

Even still, I am sure that he doesn't have a clue about what medium format and large format is... and I am very sure given that he seems money conservative that if he saw how much those guys cost especially in terms of their individual pieces, e.g. lenses, digital backs, etc... that he won't even give a second look.


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## rumorzmonger (Sep 8, 2013)

I can't believe how many people have responded to this silly troll post... :


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## ecka (Sep 8, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...



"Upgrading" means switching to a higher grade. 60D and 70D are in the same grade, so it won't be an upgrade, only an update. Neither sensor size nor price define camera grade, it's about the whole package.


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## tiger82 (Sep 8, 2013)

Prsonally, I think everyone should start with 3 1DX bodies, 8-15mm 4L, 14mm 2.8L, 24mm 1.4L, 16-35 II 2.8L, 24-70 II 2.8L, 70-200 II 2.8L, 200m 2.0L, 100mm IS Macro 2.8L, 200-400 1.4x 4.0L, 300 2.8L, 400 2.8L, 600 f/4, and 800 f4.

Then upgrade every time a new version is released. If you can afford it, buy them and go away.


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## AlanF (Sep 8, 2013)

tiger82 said:


> Prsonally, I think everyone should start with 3 1DX bodies, 8-15mm 4L, 14mm 2.8L, 24mm 1.4L, 16-35 II 2.8L, 24-70 II 2.8L, 70-200 II 2.8L, 200m 2.0L, 100mm IS Macro 2.8L, 200-400 1.4x 4.0L, 300 2.8L, 400 2.8L, 600 f/4, and 800 f4.
> 
> Then upgrade every time a new version is released. If you can afford it, buy them and go away.



800 f4?


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## Don Haines (Sep 8, 2013)

Why not upgrade to an ipad? It was a bigger touchscreen and two cameras


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## tiger82 (Sep 8, 2013)

AlanF said:


> tiger82 said:
> 
> 
> > Prsonally, I think everyone should start with 3 1DX bodies, 8-15mm 4L, 14mm 2.8L, 24mm 1.4L, 16-35 II 2.8L, 24-70 II 2.8L, 70-200 II 2.8L, 200m 2.0L, 100mm IS Macro 2.8L, 200-400 1.4x 4.0L, 300 2.8L, 400 2.8L, 600 f/4, and 800 f4.
> ...



Ooops, that was originally 500mm 4L and 600mm 4L but I decided why not add 800 to the supreme collection but I forgot to change it to 800mm 5.6L


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## unfocused (Sep 8, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...



Dear Mr. DuyDaniel,

We have received your application to work as a troll here at Camera Rumors Forum. At this time we do not have any vacancies and we are not conducting interviews for trolls. 

Perhaps you were aware that we recently had a reduction in force in our Dynamic Range Troll Division. While that is true, it was the result of a decision to reduce the number of trolls serving the forum and we do not anticipate filling that vacancy in the near future. 

We will keep your application on file, and should a need arise in the future, we will contact you. In the meantime, it will not be necessary for you to initiate any further contact.

Sincerely,

Canon Rumors Forum Community.


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## duydaniel (Sep 8, 2013)

Thanks for the effort
but thought of me offering my opinion and suggestions are trolling
ofc there is no perfect solution for all.
I shoot still most of the time and that was what I feel about upgrading




unfocused said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > Hi there,
> ...


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## thgmuffin (Sep 11, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Why not upgrade to an ipad? It has a bigger touchscreen and two cameras


Features:
Variable Burst Rate! Tap as fast as you want!
0 Buffer lag!
Share as you go!
Large screen for composing and focusing!
Front facing camera for selfies!


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## greger (Sep 12, 2013)

Where does it say that all opinions must be not thought provoking or of a personal opinion. It's ok to get upset at someone's post and go on a name calling attack when the simple solution is to laugh it off and just say that the op is wrong and give some facts to back up your opinion. I strongly disagree with the post and I gave my response. I just
don't see getting mean spirited. "Buy a good camera then it's L glass forever more?" End of Story. 8)


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 12, 2013)

thgmuffin said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Have you seen anyone take pictures with an iPad? it's really stupid. Especially if you consider that in Dutch we call someone who is oblivious to things/concepts/ideas/knowledge that should be obvious, as having a "bord voor zijn kop" which translates to: " having a plate in front of their head". That iPad is some plate in front of one's head!

Oh, and at events it's plain anti-social because anyone standing behind the person who is taking pictures overhead with their iPad won't be able to see a thing.


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## Don Haines (Sep 12, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> thgmuffin said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


I was being sarcastic.....

But that said, yes, I have seen people taking pictures with an ipad..... I do it a lot at work.... I do it at home for Facebook pictures.... And I know a professional photographer who came along on a photo walk last year and shot with an ipad, her pictures were just as interesting to look at as anyone else's. it looked a bit silly, but the results spoke for themselves.

One of the reasons I intend to upgrade soon is to get a camera with wifi.... Take the camera, place near perch where birds stop before they visit the feeder, and remotely control it through the ipad. Upgrading is not always about the sensor, for some it is about features and capabilities.


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 12, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > thgmuffin said:
> ...



It's always good if you can make technology work for you, and I respect that. As for me, I recently got a company iPad, but I haven't used it much let alone felt the need to take any pictures with it...


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## Don Haines (Sep 12, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > mrsfotografie said:
> ...


Have fun playing with it.... Personally, I am amazed at how well it works in good light and at how badly it works in poor light.... It is definitely a daylight or brightly lit room camera.... And forget about wide or long...

BTW, there are some interesting apps for it, including ones to stitch panoramas together as you shoot. Having the accelerometers and the live view of the stitching is interesting.... There are apps to act as intervalometers and for time lapse control of DSLR's, and even light meters (fairly crappy). You can also use it as an external mike if you go over to the dark side and shoot video


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 12, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Don't worry, my name ain't Luke


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## jcns (Sep 12, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...



you upgrade cars, don't you?
you upgrade phones, don't you or are you using a jitterbug?


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## dave (Sep 13, 2013)

About iPads (didn't want a massive nest of quotes).

I tend to agree with Don. My fiancee is an illustrator and she loves her iPad. She can share work in progress photos instantly and then get back to work straight away. She is pretty handy with the editing apps and they are cheap as chips so it works so well for her. Furthermore because her photos basically live on a retina screen that gives her an extra boost of confidence inspiring awesomeness.

...as for when she pulls it out to take pictures in public - oh the shame!


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## JM Photography (Sep 13, 2013)

Signed in just to comment about the iPads 

Watched a lady with her brand new iPad with the built in case taking a picture of a birthday cake. She was holding primarily by the case, case released, iPad fell in cake.

I'm glad people photograph with iPad's. It's very entertaining to watch!


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## dave (Sep 13, 2013)

JM Photography said:


> Signed in just to comment about the iPads
> 
> Watched a lady with her brand new iPad with the built in case taking a picture of a birthday cake. She was holding primarily by the case, case released, iPad fell in cake.
> 
> I'm glad people photograph with iPad's. It's very entertaining to watch!



Did you pull a smartphone out and take a photo of the Cakepad? That sounds pretty funny.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2013)

JM Photography said:


> Signed in just to comment about the iPads
> 
> Watched a lady with her brand new iPad with the built in case taking a picture of a birthday cake. She was holding primarily by the case, case released, iPad fell in cake.
> 
> I'm glad people photograph with iPad's. It's very entertaining to watch!



I wonder if Apple has already trademarked _iFrosting_?


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## privatebydesign (Sep 13, 2013)

JM Photography said:


> Signed in just to comment about the iPads
> 
> Watched a lady with her brand new iPad with the built in case taking a picture of a birthday cake. She was holding primarily by the case, case released, iPad fell in cake.
> 
> I'm glad people photograph with iPad's. It's very entertaining to watch!



Last time I was in Varanasi I saw this on my way back to base, it cracked me up so I had to take it.


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 13, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> JM Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Signed in just to comment about the iPads
> ...



Those monks (I assume) are amazingly modern. Looks like one of them had you in the picture too!


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## cellomaster27 (Sep 13, 2013)

JM Photography said:


> Signed in just to comment about the iPads
> 
> Watched a lady with her brand new iPad with the built in case taking a picture of a birthday cake. She was holding primarily by the case, case released, iPad fell in cake.
> 
> I'm glad people photograph with iPad's. It's very entertaining to watch!



I totally agree. Ridiculousness.  it's funny until a friend or family member does it right next to me with me holding my dslr.. Now that's sad.


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## serendipidy (Sep 14, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > JM Photography said:
> ...



Good eye! I might have missed that!


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## duydaniel (Sep 14, 2013)

I can tell the monk was holding a D700 with 70-300 Nikkor


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 14, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> I can tell the monk was holding a D700 with 70-300 Nikkor



Then you must be that monk! ;D Show us the picture you took


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## Don Haines (Sep 15, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> JM Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Signed in just to comment about the iPads
> ...


and all the other monks were praying the picture would be ok.....


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## Richard8971 (Sep 15, 2013)

While I agree that glass can take you farher than camera body, I DO agree that an upgrade from one brand of camera body (I.E. T1i to T2i) is _usually_ not worth the $$$ spent, _unless_ the upgrade fits what you _need_ to get the photos you are after.

I have a friend who says this about buying camera equipment. "Buy what you need, stay within what you CAN afford, and LEARN your equipment well."

I love the last part because a guy with a rebel who KNOWS his camera inside and out can "out shoot" a guy who owns a 1DX and doesn't know how to operate it properly. An upgrade simply to upgrade, because someone want the "newest and greatest" will often be quickly dissapointed with the purchase, simply because he/she never took the time to LEARN his first camera to begin with.

3 years ago I upgraded from my XTi to the 40D for a couple of simple reasons. 1) I shoot mainly wildlife and the 3fps of the rebel missed a lot of shots and the 40D's 6.5fps were perfect 2) I was happy with the 10.1MP sensor because more megapixels do not automatically mean a better photo, and 3) I have large hands and the 40D fits better in my hands than the rebels do. It was not worth it for me to shell out the $1600 for the 7D because it was way outside of my budget.

But at the time, the 40D's were in the price range (used) of about 500-700 bucks and the 50D's were commanding upwards of 800-1000 used (as they were still new at the time). The 40D is a very overlooked camera because of it's short life span (Canon released the 50D within a year of the 40D's release). Many people assumed that the 50D was a better camera so the market got flooded with tons of very lightly used 40D's. I got mine at the time for $500.00 bucks and I loved it.

The 40D for me as the perfect upgrade. In fact I still keep a 40D as a backup/macro camera to my 7D and shoot with it on a regular basis. The only reason why I bought the 7D wasn't because I wanted an upgrade, but my 40D was ripped off and my ins company paid for a replacement. I paid the difference and bought the 7D. I love my 7D but I also love my 40D, it fits my needs and it's a very easy camera to use and consistantly produces outstanding photos.

D


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 15, 2013)

Richard8971 said:


> While I agree that glass can take you farher than camera body, I DO agree that an upgrade from one brand of camera body (I.E. T1i to T2i) is _usually_ not worth the $$$ spent, _unless_ the upgrade fits what you _need_ to get the photos you are after.
> 
> I have a friend who says this about buying camera equipment. "Buy what you need, stay within what you CAN afford, and LEARN your equipment well."
> 
> ...



I loved my 40D as well; I sold it when I got my 5DMkII and then regretted not having a crop sensor anymore, so I bought a 7D for sports and such. When I review my pictures, it's obvious the 40D is a very capable body and holds its own even today. The 7D is better but FWIW to me the 40D has more soul than the 7D, but probably only because it was my first DSLR.


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## Richard8971 (Sep 16, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> it's obvious the 40D is a very capable body and holds its own even today.



For the most part I have a hard time telling photos taken from my 40D and 7D apart. I love the newer features of the 7D but the 40D still holds it's own against any of the newer cameras in terms of ease of use and image quality.

What makes the 40D even better at this time is that you can find very lightly used bodies for $200-$300. That's a steal for a very capable camera that you can afford to throw in the car and take anywhere and use without risk of hurting it, and even if you do, it can be replaced cheaply and easily. Why? Becuase most people overlook it and go for the 50D or 60D instead. The 50D still commands a decent amount for good used bodies, but I have done side by side screen shots and I can't tell them apart. So why pay the extra $$$? 

D


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 16, 2013)

Richard8971 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > it's obvious the 40D is a very capable body and holds its own even today.
> ...



In fact, noise levels on the 40D are better than on the 50D. This talk almost makes me want to get a 40D for nostalgia sake (but I have to be reasonable and NOT do that).


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## aj1575 (Sep 16, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
> I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
> ...



Your are right, it is a waste of money to upgrade from a 60D to a 70D, or even more so to upgrade a 650D to a 700D.

It is a different story if the upgrade is from a 50D or even 40D to a 70D, or from a 450D to a 700D. Actually it is a waste of money to upgrade any electronic device after one or two years, be it a Canon camera or a Nikon or a Sony or whatever; or be it a smartphone a nav-system, a homecinema. There are no big improvements from one model to the next one.

Everybody has to find his own way of replacing and updating equipment. For me as an amateur photographer the target age for a camera is 5 years. Right now I'm replacing my 7 1/2 year old 350D with a 70D, this is a nice upgrade, and well worth the money. In 5 more years the 90D will be out, and if I wait another 2 years, then it will be the 100D.....


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 16, 2013)

aj1575 said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > Hi there,
> ...



Target ages vary across the range, I'd say. Comparable to release intervals, a (semi) pro body will have a longer practical life than a lower range body. I'm amazed you're still using a 350D


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## Richard8971 (Sep 17, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> I'm amazed you're still using a 350D



EDIT 9-19-12 (I did not mean to call it a 350D, I meant that he had a 300D, the first Rebel)

This is funny because I work with a guy who still uses his 350D and he swears by it. He says a couple of reasons why he still loves it is because 1) The pixel pitch is 7.4um (close to the full frame 5D & 5D2) and produces noise free images all the way through his ISO range and it is a larger body than the newer Rebels and feels "beefier". 

I suppose that is a testomony to the quality of Canon's products, that such an "old" DSLR is still going strong, even after years and years of use. Personally? I would have dumped it years ago in favor of the newer, brighter (and larger) LCD back displays. I can't imaging how we got past such a small, dim display and made it work, but compared to film, at least you got something to look at vs. having to wait to develop your film to see...

D


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 17, 2013)

Richard8971 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm amazed you're still using a 350D
> ...



This is nonsense, check this out and tell him to get a 300D instead!

http://www.saratogaskies.com/articles/pattern-noise/


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## aj1575 (Sep 17, 2013)

Richard8971 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm amazed you're still using a 350D
> ...



I completly disagree with the noise in the 350D; the 350D is quite awfull when it comes to noise; but hey, this is an 8year old design. Otherwise I have no quality issues. The eyepiece fell of twice, so I needed replacement. The grip starts to loose its texture, and the screen has scratches (so it is even harder now to really see something); but everything is still working, and it reminds me that the most important part is the photographer. I have to work a little harder, and I have to understand a little better what I'm doing than the other guys with new gear.
My conclusion is, that the equipment is not the most important thing; and yes, upgrading from one consumer camera to the next is a waste of money; wait a few years so that there is a bigger improvement. Upgrading to a semipro or pro camera is also a waste of money, when you are not using the camera often.
The real luxury is not having a 1Dx with 10 L-lenses, no it is having time to make good photgraphs whit any decent camera.


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## Richard8971 (Sep 20, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> This is nonsense, check this out and tell him to get a 300D instead!
> 
> http://www.saratogaskies.com/articles/pattern-noise/





aj1575 said:


> I completly disagree with the noise in the 350D; the 350D is quite awfull when it comes to noise; but hey, this is an 8year old design. Otherwise I have no quality issues. The eyepiece fell of twice, so I needed replacement. The grip starts to loose its texture, and the screen has scratches (so it is even harder now to really see something); but everything is still working, and it reminds me that the most important part is the photographer. I have to work a little harder, and I have to understand a little better what I'm doing than the other guys with new gear.
> My conclusion is, that the equipment is not the most important thing; and yes, upgrading from one consumer camera to the next is a waste of money; wait a few years so that there is a bigger improvement. Upgrading to a semipro or pro camera is also a waste of money, when you are not using the camera often.
> The real luxury is not having a 1Dx with 10 L-lenses, no it is having time to make good photgraphs whit any decent camera.



I'm sorry guys I meant to say he had a 300D (orig Rebel). My mistake.


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