# 5D Black AF points...NOTHING + Spot-meter?



## LifeAfter (Feb 17, 2013)

Hello,

What do you guys thing,
Will Canon arrange this or not? if yes, when?
The next firmware that is about to be released in April, apparently will not include this!!!!

And... i cannot really realize that Canon didn't make the spot-meter function to any AF point
at least to some of them!!!! can it be done via a firmware???

I know that is not up to us but just to have a better idea of any possible firmware,
Thank you for your opinions


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## J.R. (Feb 17, 2013)

My expectations ... no and no! 

Canon does a great job crippling features to protect the higher bodies so I don't think these features will be available for the 5D3 (thanks in advance Canon!).


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## LifeAfter (Feb 17, 2013)

If not Canon, than some third party software like Magic Lantern??


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## J.R. (Feb 17, 2013)

Probably ... the ML guys are excellent. I'd have more hope from ML than Canon


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## LifeAfter (Feb 17, 2013)

Anyway the 1D x has 12/14 fps, grip integrated, 
better battery life... i mean Nikon did this with D800 (Resolution, Spot-meter, Auto ISO...)

They f***ed us up with the 5D II from the original 5D autofocus, 
OK the 5D III is a lot better, but they still didn't do what is as important 
as having all those AF points (crosstypes)... Spot-meter to any AF point

The real advantage over the 5D II is only the Autofocus..and yet not complete!!!

Am i wrong?


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## LifeAfter (Feb 17, 2013)

Without mentioning the price of the D800 among other advantages...
Anyway i don't really care about any Brand, should it be Canon, Nikon
Or any other Brand. What i care is photography, 
but for that i need the appropriate tool.

Nevertheless i think Canon makes good Cameras, 
but we should admit that often leaves a lot to be desired.

5DIII

3200 $
22mpx
6fps


D800

2600$
36mpx
4fps
Spot-meter AF points linked
Better Auto ISO
Higher DR


As i said this shoudn't really 
in any way be another D800 vs 5DIII battle
Juste compare what a brand gives for the money
In comparison to another... It's just not right

So Canon really pisses us of with their attitude


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## RMC33 (Feb 17, 2013)

> The real advantage over the 5D II is only the Autofocus..and yet not complete!!!


]

Better High ISO, better layout/ergonomics, better AFMA, better grip, better video (I can't honestly comment on this as I have never shot video with any DSLR), Nice having an extra card slot just in case (should have been a CF card!), better high end card performance (if that matters to you), The AF on the Mk3 blows the Mk2 out of the water, better NR, better processor and I feel a much better overall build.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 17, 2013)

This has been discussed, and it was noted long ago not to expect a solution due to technical issues with the exposure system.
All this was well known to the OP and to me before I bought the camera, so I do not like it, but I have no complaints coming either.
And, I did first buy a D800, sorry, but the grass is not greener.


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## LifeAfter (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm really curious (while i don't know really)
What D800 leaves out? What should it have,
to be better than 5D III ?

I don't think it's too much what we're asking


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 17, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> I'm really curious (while i don't know really)
> What D800 leaves out? What should it have,
> to be better than 5D III ?
> 
> I don't think it's too much what we're asking


As soon as you shoot off 1500 photos at a event, and bring them back to post process, you will find that the time to process each image is about 5-10 times longer. That runs up serious amounts of time that could be earning $$$. Then, at high ISO's, there is a ton of noise. If you downsize the image to 8mp like DXO does, then its pretty much invisible, so go buy a 8mp body instead.

Next, is the live view, which I likke to use extensively. Its so slow that its very difficult to use for manual focus due to the delay.

Finally, Nikon is missing lenses that equal the 24-105mmL, the 135mmL, and either the 100-400mmL or the 400mm f/5.6L. I used a 24-70mm f/2.8G, and it had so much CA that lightroom could not correct it at the edges.
My fingertips were also always touching the buttons on the rightside by the grip (I have long fingers), this locked up the shutter button.

At ISO 100 - ISO 400, the camera was supurb, but I tend to use ISO 6400 and up, where the noise causes monster sized image files and a looooong time to run NR.

The D800 is a very nice camera for landscape hobbyists who do not shoot thousands of images, and can spend hours setting up and taking images and then in post production to get that one perfect image. You do need a heavy and stable tripod as well as a top lens to actually get the benefit of those 36 mp. Camera testers spend hours trying to beef up their already excellent techniques and setups to be able to see the improvement.


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## bdunbar79 (Feb 17, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> Without mentioning the price of the D800 among other advantages...
> Anyway i don't really care about any Brand, should it be Canon, Nikon
> Or any other Brand. What i care is photography,
> but for that i need the appropriate tool.
> ...



I think you're missing the whole point of the 5D Mark III. Canon customers complained about the AF of the 5D Mark II, so Canon answered with a "better than a 7D" autofocus system in a 5D Mark II, and called it the 5D Mark III. Better AF leads doesn't just mean quicker, it also means more accurate, which are both true over the 5D Mark II. You get a higher hit rate and slightly cleaner images with NR at high ISO over the 5D2. Canon customers complained about the noise of high ISO 7D images, so now you have a 5D2 and 7D in one. 

The D800 is not competing with the 5D Mark III's market. The 5D Mark III is for wedding photographers and perhaps towards non-pro sports photogs as well. The D800 with 36 MP is not feasible to use to shoot sports and weddings, as the file size is unnecessary and the additional 14 MP provides no perceivable increase in IQ for weddings and sports. That's really all that matters since the 5D3 is targeting those photographers.

If you want spot metering linked to all AF points, you'll have to go for a 1D or 1Ds body for Canon. Is it really that important? For me, no, because I never use it, ever. I take several meter readings with the center point and then make an informed decision on what I want my metering to be for the scene. Spot metering linked to AF point is, however, useful for bird photogs and sometimes sports. I have certainly used it for sports on my 1D bodies, but I was being paid for those events, so a 5D body wasn't really considered to use either. To be clear, I don't use that feature anymore.

I don't get the negative arguments against the 5D Mark III. It answers everyone's complaints about the 5D2 and the 7D. Period. I have no idea what market the D800 is targeting, since none of Nikon's lenses can even maximally use the 36 MP sensor.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 17, 2013)

bdunbar79 said:


> I have no idea what market the D800 is targeting, since none of Nikon's lenses can even maximally use the 36 MP sensor.



The 5DII trounced the D700 in sales. Nikon assumed it was due to 21 MP vs. 12 MP. So, Nikon skated to where the puck used to be, and developed the 36 MP D800. Canon listened to Wayne and skated to where the puck was going - they developed the 5DIII, which seems to be trouncing the D800 in sales.


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## bdunbar79 (Feb 17, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > I have no idea what market the D800 is targeting, since none of Nikon's lenses can even maximally use the 36 MP sensor.
> ...



So in other words, Canon actually does deliver on what most photographers want? Wow!


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## Zlatko (Feb 17, 2013)

RMC33 said:


> > The real advantage over the 5D II is only the Autofocus..and yet not complete!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Better High ISO, better layout/ergonomics, better AFMA, better grip, better video (I can't honestly comment on this as I have never shot video with any DSLR), Nice having an extra card slot just in case (should have been a CF card!), better high end card performance (if that matters to you), The AF on the Mk3 blows the Mk2 out of the water, better NR, better processor and I feel a much better overall build.



... and to add to that: more responsive shutter, shorter mirror blackout, 100% viewfinder, two amazing quiet shutter modes, good implementation of auto-ISO, better auto white balance, higher frame rate, etc. So, the hugely improved autofocus is definitely NOT the "only" real advantage.

I agree with Mt Spokane who writes that the "grass is not greener". Look at the current star ratings on Amazon.com:

D800: 42 out of 239 are 1 star (worst) ratings = 17.5%
D600: 40 out 225 are 1 star (worst) ratings = 17.7%

5D3: 4 out of 201 are 1 star (worst) ratings = 2%
6D: 0 out of 58 are 1 star (worst) ratings = 0%

Based on specs on paper, those Nikon models should be providing greater value. But based on customer ratings, they are providing greater dissatisfaction.


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## LifeAfter (Feb 17, 2013)

Thank you all guys for all ..

While i still think that - anyway we merited 
That those small imperfections were repaired
by a firmware, considering the price we pay for it

I do agree with you that 5D III is a lot better
camera in a lot of aspects, with autofocus being
the most improved
(i don't really agree with the "a lot better high iso
less noise")

I do think that earns A LOT more for what it gives
to us, comparing Nikon with the D800


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## bdunbar79 (Feb 17, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> Thank you all guys for all ..
> 
> While i still think that - anyway we merited
> That those small imperfections were repaired
> ...



I won't disagree with you that if Nikon would produce a few prime lenses that could make full use of the 36 MP sensor, the D800 would be an even more outstanding camera than it is. As it is though, consumers aren't really buying it as much as Canon, because the high MP's aren't reflected in IQ. That is yet to be seen and I think there is a lot of potential there.


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## rlarsen (Feb 17, 2013)

Regarding AF point-linked spot metering, be careful what you wish for. The original EOS 1-D had that and I found it terrible, especially with flash metering. Unless the little AF sensor is on a mid-toned part of the subject your metering will be off, and often way off.

After a long time of frustration and bad exposures I discovered a helpful solution with the 1-D. By turning off AF on the lens, the metering pattern switched to average. Sure I had to give up AF but metering came closer to reliable. 

Now improved light-up AF points like my old 1-D MK ll, that's worth wishing for.

....and firmware announced for April. Pretty damn odd that firmware is announced months before it becomes available. Isn't this a first ?


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## EvillEmperor (Feb 17, 2013)

Why does everyone complain about the black ad points? News flash! You can disable them not to all appear at once or just show a few ad points! It doesn't bother me on the 7D or 5D. Spot meter, I can understand, but really, the black AF points can easily be avoided!


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## dlleno (Feb 17, 2013)

Zlatko said:


> RMC33 said:
> 
> 
> > > The real advantage over the 5D II is only the Autofocus..and yet not complete!!!
> ...



these data may be more telling than the sales figures and number of 5-star ratings. I would naturally expect the 5DIII to outsell the D800 because of brand loyalty, the tremendous installed base, and existing glass investments. Neither are first-time cameras, which means the two never really competed 100% on the merits the body only. and neither should they. 

It is interesting to note that the D800s superior DR at base ISO is a whopping don't care for the vast majority of the target 5D3 market.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 17, 2013)

As I wrote in this thread, if you look at Amazon.com's Top Rated dSLRs, the 5DIII is #1, the top 15 spots are Canon cameras, and the Nikon D800 doesn't even make the Top 100. Pretty telling...


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## RMC33 (Feb 17, 2013)

Zlatko said:


> RMC33 said:
> 
> 
> > > The real advantage over the 5D II is only the Autofocus..and yet not complete!!!
> ...



Very very good points. I forgot about quiet shutter which I have to say is amazing.


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## Menace (Feb 17, 2013)

RMC33 said:


> Zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > RMC33 said:
> ...



Quiet shutter - works really well at weddings


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## skinkfoot (Feb 17, 2013)

I will probably be flamed but... The 5d mk iii is a terrific camera.

I think Canon camera pricing is quite reasonable, just compare it to the cost of the 1ds mk iii, or the 1d mk iv. I paid $2975 for mine at b&h. and I think it is well worth every penny. Nikon is killing their own profits right now to compete with Canon, and they are suffering because of it.

I have never had a problem with the metering yet, sometimes I have to compensate with manual lenses or heavy white backgrounds(snow), but who cares, That's kind of why I don't use a point and shot. I don't mind getting to know when to tweak the camera.

The AF is excellent. I shoot 50% birds and I don't even have time to look at the focus points when shooting BIF, and when they are stationary I use one shot.

I really don't understand why people go on and on about these little things, just adapt and move forward.


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## RMC33 (Feb 17, 2013)

Menace said:


> RMC33 said:
> 
> 
> > Zlatko said:
> ...



I think I forgot because I can hardly hear it at events like that=)


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## bdunbar79 (Feb 17, 2013)

I shoot tennis and golf with a 5D Mark III with quiet shutter mode.


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## RMC33 (Feb 17, 2013)

bdunbar79 said:


> I shoot tennis and golf with a 5D Mark III with quiet shutter mode.



It works great for figure skating and recitals as well.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 17, 2013)

I shot a sporting event today with the machine-gun shutter of the 1D X, and it wasn't a problem. I suppose that might be because the subjects were busy pummeling each other in the head within the boxing ring...


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## RMC33 (Feb 17, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I shot a sporting event today with the machine-gun shutter of the 1D X, and it wasn't a problem. I suppose that might be because the subjects were busy pummeling each other in the head within the boxing ring...



Haha. I just rented one from CPS to see if it (which I know it will) replace my 7D for sports. Poor little guy decided to stop working the other day. 

I will say the other thing I like silent shutter for is street shooting. If people don't hear the click click click they are less inclined to care about what you are doing. Has not netted me any good ones yet, but it keeps interest down.


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## risc32 (Feb 18, 2013)

EvillEmperor said:


> Why does everyone complain about the black ad points? News flash! You can disable them not to all appear at once or just show a few ad points! It doesn't bother me on the 7D or 5D. Spot meter, I can understand, but really, the black AF points can easily be avoided!



they, we, dislike how it is all but impossible to see the AF points in a dim environment. personally I can't understand the spot metering thing, but if it was my bag, i would certainly like to see it as an option.


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## Menace (Feb 18, 2013)

RMC33 said:


> Menace said:
> 
> 
> > RMC33 said:
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+1


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## skitron (Feb 18, 2013)

bdunbar79 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > bdunbar79 said:
> ...



Seems so. I remember about a years worth of "what do you want to see in the new 5D3?" posts right here and the vast majority stated "don't increase the pixel count just fix the *&^%* autofocus" and next was "less moire in the video". Mission accomplished...had the 5D2 and like the 5D3 much better largely for these two things, though there are plenty others as well. 

I'm sure a D800 is a fine camera for full daylight shooting with the extra DR at ISO 100, but there is this thing call "indoors" and another thing called "dusk" and another called "night"...lol.


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

Menace said:


> RMC33 said:
> 
> 
> > Menace said:
> ...



Don't forget that the auto-focus of the 5D III is not all the same as 1D x's, 
while that seems no big difference, it surely is a lot better in low light,
without mentioning the spot-meter linked to all AF points.

Even the 6D's center AF point is better in low light than 5D III's any AF Point

So, the 5D III IS a lot better camera than its predecessor, there still are 
some important limitations even for weddings or low light events.
I've had troubles achieving a good focus with all the lenses in some 
low light situations.

I don't know what will the next 5D camera have or improve, 
but i think there's still room of improving the auto-focus.

We really didn't need all those AF points, 
nor should it have all that ''complicated'' auto-focus,
All it should have was a 1Dx-like low light performance with fewer AF points

Anyway it's just my opinion


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

So what do you guys think will/could Canon improve in the 5D III
with firmwares in the future?

AF...Black point, or other?
SDXC card (speed) compatibility?
Fps, like they did with the 7D?

Or Chinese, English, German, French, Italian, language better translation?
Or ad Albanian language?


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

Just a print screen of Top 100 in Switzerland
Look at the price of the D800 = 2509$


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

And 5DIII 3240$


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## J.R. (Feb 18, 2013)

... and it all boils down to the price! There have been plenty of complaints about the price in comparison to the D800 but your whinge comes late by about a year. 

Price is the last thing you should worry about once a purchase has been made. However, if you are still in the market, you need to see which system serves you best - a camera body is just another cog in the wheel.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 18, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> Just a print screen of Top 100 in Switzerland



Top 100 based on what? Sales or customer feedback?


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> LifeAfter said:
> 
> 
> > Just a print screen of Top 100 in Switzerland
> ...



Its Top 100 of sales, and it's been so from the launch of the 5DIII and d800


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> LifeAfter said:
> 
> 
> > Just a print screen of Top 100 in Switzerland
> ...



The D800 was all the time to top 1 to 5 
And the 5DIII was all the way down the list, about 25th or 30th place 
On sales of course


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## marinien (Feb 18, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > LifeAfter said:
> ...



Top 100 of what? (devices which can take photo?) Provided by whom?
It's hard, for me, to imagine that the D800 outsells the D3200


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## zim (Feb 18, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> Just a print screen of Top 100 in Switzerland



Who's list?


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

It's about top 100 of all electronic devices. 
And this Is a website for comparing all the prices in switzerland,
It is the most popular.

So it's not only photography equipement, but everything electronics

Link:
http://www.toppreise.ch/top100.html

Don't forget that the prices are in Swiss Franks
So 1 swiss frank = 1.084$


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## marinien (Feb 18, 2013)

zim said:


> LifeAfter said:
> 
> 
> > Just a print screen of Top 100 in Switzerland
> ...



I had a look at toppreise.ch. The list does look similar. However, I did not fine the ranking of *sales*. The list that have the D800 and the D600 on top is ranked by *popularity*. Popularity in such a site does not necessarily mean sale figure. It can be, for example, the number of searches ;D.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 18, 2013)

marinien said:


> I had a look at toppreise.ch. The list does look similar. However, I did not fine the ranking of *sales*. The list that have the D800 and the D600 on top is ranked by *popularity*. Popularity in such a site does not necessarily mean sale figure. It can be, for example, the number of searches ;D.



+1, no where do I see a what that Top 100 list is, except "Popularity" which could mean anything.

But...even if it does mean sales, Amazon.com (USA) is a substantially larger market size. Currently, the sales rankings for FF dSLRs (excerpted from the dSLR list) on Amazon have the 6D as the best-selling FF dSLR (#10/11 overall), followed by the 5DIII (#12/14 overall). The D600 is #19, followed by the old 5DII at #22, then the D800 at #23. 

Also, as referenced above, based on customer reviews on amazon.com the 5DIII blows the D800 out of the water (and Canon in general fares vastly better than Nikon). As I stated, the 5DIII tops the list of Top 100 Rated. How about Nikon's FF dSLRs? The highest customer rated one is the D4 at a rather sad #51, followed by the old D700 at #52, and the D800 doesn't make the list at all.


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> rlarsen said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding AF point-linked spot metering, be careful what you wish for. The original EOS 1-D had that and I found it terrible, especially with flash metering. Unless the little AF sensor is on a mid-toned part of the subject your metering will be off, and often way off.
> ...



thats fot the 1D x, and it's not the case with the 5D III


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> marinien said:
> 
> 
> > I had a look at toppreise.ch. The list does look similar. However, I did not fine the ranking of *sales*. The list that have the D800 and the D600 on top is ranked by *popularity*. Popularity in such a site does not necessarily mean sale figure. It can be, for example, the number of searches ;D.
> ...



Yer you're right, it's Popularity, not sales
i didn't really take a look as i should

Sorry for that


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 18, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> thats fot the 1D x, and it's not the case with the 5D III



Actually, it's not for the 1D X. As PBD stated, "On the *1D* that would be..." 1D, as in the original Canon 1D, which is what rlarsen was complaining about.

Personally, I find spot metering linked to the AF point very useful, and on the 1D X it can be linked to any of the 61 AF points. That's possible on the 1D X due to the 100K pixel metering sensor, but not possible with the 5DIII, no matter what they do to the firmware. Look at the 61 AF points superimposed on the 63 zone iFCL metering grid:


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

So what do you think about a third party software
tweaking the auto-focus to make it link the spot-meter to any AF point?
Or to make full use of the SD cards?


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> LifeAfter said:
> 
> 
> > thats fot the 1D x, and it's not the case with the 5D III
> ...



So i see Neuro, i'ts just not possible with 5DIII
What do you think about the SDXC?

Or what are the expectations to get anything improved to the 5DIII
in the future firmwares?


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 18, 2013)

LifeAfter said:


> Or what are the expectations to get anything improved to the 5DIII
> in the future firmwares?



It's getting the ability to AF at f/8 in the near future. That's a pretty big enhancement (for some people) and something that was formerly only found on 1-series digital bodies (lesser film bodies had it). It's also getting uncompressed HDMI output.


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## LifeAfter (Feb 18, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> LifeAfter said:
> 
> 
> > Or what are the expectations to get anything improved to the 5DIII
> ...


Well these are good improvements for Tele-photo (birds and other) and video guys
unfortunately, personally i need none of them.

I really see there is room for another FF body in the Canon lineup
as said by Canon representative... the future is more FF


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