# Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk & Updated Roadmap [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 15, 2016)

```
The EOS 6D has been hugely successful and a lot of people are looking forward to its replacement. The good news is, there will be a replacement, the bad news is, it likely won’t come to market until the first half of 2017.</p>
<p>With the EOS 5D Mark IV launching in August for a September/October release, there wont be enough time to launch an EOS 6D Mark II in 2016. It was never a likely scenario that both cameras would launch around the same time. The EOS 5D Mark IV deserves the spotlight.</p>
<p>The only other ILC camera we think will be coming in 2016, will be a new mirrorless camera from Canon. The EOS M4 may be announced, but I don’t see it coming to market until 2017 as well.</p>
<p>We have been told by an unconfirmed source that the EOS 6D Mark II will sport the same resolution as the EOS 5D Mark IV, which is being reported at 24mp. We’ve also been told that it’s possible that the EOS 6D Mark II will not get DPAF, but I’d take that with a grain of salt, as it’s still too early to be sure about final specifications.</p>
<p>So this is our updated roadmap for new Canon DSLR/Mirroress cameras.</p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV: announcement in August 2016, Release in September/October.</li>
<li>Canon EOS M (High end model): announcement in October 2016, Release in November/December.</li>
<li>Canon EOS 6D Mark II: announcement in February 2017, release in March/April.</li>
<li>Canon EOS M4: announcement in February 2017, release in March/April</li>
</ul>
<p>We have no information that suggests we’re going to see an EOS Rebel SL2 anytime soon, if at all.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Chaitanya (Apr 15, 2016)

It would be typical idiot canon to drop Dpaf, dual card slots and 4k from a camera that is supposed to move up market.


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## Dekaner (Apr 15, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> It would be typical idiot canon to drop Dpaf, dual card slots and 4k from a camera that is supposed to move up market.



You do realize that this is their entry level full frame camera... right?


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## K-amps (Apr 15, 2016)

What the excuse this time for the delay... ? We never planned to announce this in 2016? 

Will likely downsell me to the 80D rather than spending 2k on this if it came this year...


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## -1 (Apr 15, 2016)

Hmm... No "Über M" at Photokina? The Fuji TX2 will be the reference halfframe MILC then...


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## Dekaner (Apr 15, 2016)

K-amps said:


> What the excuse this time for the delay... ? We never planned to announce this in 2016?



Was it ever planned for 2016? It makes sense that it would come after the 1DX II and 5DV.

While I'm interested in to see what will come re mirrorless, I wonder if we now have to sort it into the release schedule. (I also wonder if it impacts manufacturing, but perhaps it's a different production line?)


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## plam_1980 (Apr 15, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> It would be typical idiot canon to drop Dpaf, dual card slots and 4k from a camera that is supposed to move up market.


 "a camera that is supposed to move up market", said by who???


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## Chaitanya (Apr 15, 2016)

plam_1980 said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > It would be typical idiot canon to drop Dpaf, dual card slots and 4k from a camera that is supposed to move up market.
> ...



http://www.canonrumors.com/eos-6d-mark-ii-to-shrink-move-upmarket-cr2/


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 15, 2016)

If the road map is close to accurate then I will be waiting until 2017 to see how the 6D MKII turns out. The 6D has been a great camera regardless of any views about its AF points shortfall the IQ and low light virtues pull this back as does wi-fi & GPS. The camera is much sturdier than many assumed when it was launched (mine has endured a fall from tripod & two soakings in rain) and over distances lighter than the 5DS I also own. 

If Canon does read comments on this sight then I think AF at least equal to the 80D should be included and if moving up markert then I think they should change to the toggle rather than the D pad. Touch screen that is 3.2" should also be added and ideally this should tilt up or down similar to the G7 X this would make life easier using live view on a tripod. Given that the 80D has DPAF they should also include this in fact I see no reason not to add it to all their enthuesiast and pro cameras. 

Adding these to the present functions of the 6D still leaves a decent gap between the 6D MKII and the 5D MKIV which Im sure will see other new tech although to seperate that camera from the 1DX MKII I think it will get the 150,000 pixel RGB+IR metering sensor in the 5DS /R rather than the AF 300,000 pixel RGB+IR metering sensor in the 1DX MKII. I think the 5D IV will get the same 61 point / 21 cross-type (all individually selectable) AF system that the 1DX MKII has I cannot see Canon giving the 5D MKIV a better system than the flag ship camera. 

Its a slam dunk the 5D MKIV will get 4K and this will likely be 4:2:0 as seen on the Sony A7S II, whether they give it ProRes is another matter.


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## nightscape123 (Apr 15, 2016)

I don't really care about 4K or DPAF, but the 6D should have at least the 80D's AF system, improved sensor, and slightly more MP's. Just those things alone would make it worth it. Added bonus would be DPAF with touchscreen capabilities, which would make it nice for macro work. I just hope the price is reasonable.


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## Sharlin (Apr 15, 2016)

Dekaner said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > What the excuse this time for the delay... ? We never planned to announce this in 2016?
> ...



A frighteningly large portion of this site's users seem to have problems comprehending what the word "rumor" means.


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## Bob Howland (Apr 15, 2016)

Regarding the high end "M" model, why introduce a camera in October and release it in November or December? First, the introduction misses Photokina and second, the release misses some of the Christmas buying season.


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## Takingshots (Apr 15, 2016)

2017? Too late when I need one asap.


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## Cory (Apr 15, 2016)

The good news is that I just listed my 70D and 10-18 for sale to finance a 6D.


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## JohanCruyff (Apr 15, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> We have been told by an unconfirmed source that the EOS 6D Mark II will sport the *same resolution as the EOS 5D Mark IV*, which is being reported at 24mp.
> We’ve also been told that *it’s possible that the EOS 6D Mark II will not get DPAF*, but I’d take that with a grain of salt, as it’s still too early to be sure about final specifications..


 
Same resolution, but without DPAF? It would be interesting to see whether the (6D2) photodiods fully developed to gather light will perform better than the ones (5D4?) developed to gather light AND to autofocus. 
In this case, would expect a better IQ from the 6D2 than from the 5D4...


But this won't happen, imho: a cheap zoom lens like the recent 24-105 STM makes sense in a budget full frame body *with* DPAF.


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## ironfreak (Apr 15, 2016)

I don't have any camera today and going to invest in EOS body and EF lenses. 

I feel its better to buy 6D today and upgrade to 5DIV in 2017. That should be wise, almost!


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## MShannon (Apr 15, 2016)

I was waiting to see what a Fuji XT-2 or 6D Mk2 would be like to replace my original 5D. I'm really swaying towards the Fuji and with the 6D Mk2 rumoured to be coming in 2017 - I doubt I'll wait that long.


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## unfocused (Apr 15, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> plam_1980 said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Especially when it is on a site that has "rumors" in its name.


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## crashpc (Apr 15, 2016)

I thought I can live with my M ecosystem for another year, but with money on hand, it seems that it is not true. I propably had enaug of pathetic focusing, burst rates, buffer depth, inferior sensor. Jumping the ship for ANY OTHER BLACKBOX capable of manual focus with better sensor.


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## tiger82 (Apr 15, 2016)

Canon 6D Mark II = Canon 5D Mark III + DPAF + 24MP, just updated 4+ year old technology


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## tiger82 (Apr 15, 2016)

dilbert said:


> tiger82 said:
> 
> 
> > Canon 6D Mark II = Canon 5D Mark III + DPAF + 24MP, 4+ year old technology
> ...



One would think a 5D Mark IV should have performance equal to the older 1Dx plus one more feature maybe 24mp?

Maybe 5D Mark IV = Nikon D500 + Ff sensor + 24mp + DPAF


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## unfocused (Apr 15, 2016)

This forum is always entertaining.

People whine because they can't get 1D features for a 5D price.

People whine because they can't get 5D features for a 6D price.

It's been like this for years. I remember all the whining that occurred when the 60D came out and it wasn't as good as the 7D.

If Canon doesn't give you exactly what you want at half the price, they must be *******.


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## RGF (Apr 15, 2016)

tiger82 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > tiger82 said:
> ...



but not 12 FPS


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## tiger82 (Apr 15, 2016)

unfocused said:


> This forum is always entertaining.
> 
> People whine because they can't get 1D features for a 5D price.
> 
> ...



Not my point: As technology gets old and before it gets obsolete, why not repackage it as the next model of a lesser model? Certainly cheaper to reuse 5D Mark III or 1Dx components in "new" models. Look at the pricing history, the 1Dx will sell for the same price as the 5D Mark IV when the 1Dx Mark II is in full swing. Certainly the case with the 1D Mark IV being priced just around the 5D Mark III when the 1Dx started shipping


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

unfocused said:


> This forum is always entertaining.
> 
> People whine because they can't get 1D features for a 5D price.



100% right, but I'll always whine about the lack of spot metering at the selected AF point on my 5D3. That's not state of the art technology needed to shoot arctic foxes in -50F conditions. Hell, that functionality exists on _Rebel_-level gear on the Nikon side. That legitimizes my whine, IMHO. 

- A


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## Basil (Apr 15, 2016)

For what it's worth, I just ran across this video from World of Cameras & Lenses that purports to list what they say are "confirmed" 6D Mark II specs. (I saw it on the internet, so it must be true :-*)

If these specs are accurate, I may have to seriously consider selling my 7DII and my 6D (first gen) and get the 6D II. Certainly interesting and has everything I'd need in a single camera. (Currently I use my 7DII for BIF, sports, etc., and the 6D for landscapes, architecture, portraits, etc. But if these specs are accurate, I could see myself selling both my cameras to get this.


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## cerealito (Apr 15, 2016)

If the 6Dii is sort of a FF 80d, then I will instantly buy it.

In the meanwhile my 1.5 year old 70d is still giving me amazing results 8), take your time canon


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

tiger82 said:


> Not my point: As technology gets old and before it gets obsolete, why not repackage it as the next model of a lesser model? Certainly cheaper to reuse 5D Mark III or 1Dx components in "new" models.



You can do that with _some_ components (ask any T2i, T3i, etc. owner :), but a lot of the tech doesn't grandfather into a smaller footprint. A dedicated chip for metering or a super-reinforced shutter for 400k actuations can't just be slapped into a different form factor body.

We all want to cherry pick aspects of higher end rigs and distill them into a more affordable rig that has just what we want. But Person A values super high ISO performance, Person B values DPAF / touchscreen / video, etc. and it unravels from there. In the end, we saddle up to a segment that has 80% of what we want for our budget, but if we jump the shark and end up buying the pricier model, _every_ box is checked off. Just like Canon planned.

- A


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## rrcphoto (Apr 15, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>So this is our updated roadmap for new Canon DSLR/Mirroress cameras.</p>
> <ul>
> <li>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV: announcement in August 2016, Release in September/October.</li>
> <li>Canon EOS M (High end model): announcement in October 2016, Release in November/December.</li>
> ...



I think a key point here is this is YOUR speculative roadmap.

a few things.

no June-July release. Canon historically over the last 5 years as announced something in June / July as well as August/September.

70D was announced in July.
650D in June
EOS-M in July



Mirrorless has always marched to the beat of it's own drum on releases. the M was shipped in October on a June announcement, the M2 was announced late November. the M3 was planned to be released in December, and pushed back, stripped down some, and released in Feburary.

there's no evidence to suggest that Mirrorless and DSLR announcements are timed with respect to each other.

Also the mirrorless schedule makes no sense if canon is also release EF-M lenses this year.


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## Etienne (Apr 15, 2016)

dilbert said:


> JohanCruyff said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



They might use the same sensor but just not enable DPAF on the 6D.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 15, 2016)

Etienne said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > JohanCruyff said:
> ...



can't see the point of it.

also canon seems to have no problem now creating a sensor per camera.

every APS-C release canon's done since the 70D has had a new sensor. that's 4 new sensors in 2.5 years or so.


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## tcmatthews (Apr 15, 2016)

This is a disappointment but not really a surprise. I do not plan on buying a new Canon Camera until the 6D II comes out. It is a size issue, the 6D body size is far more convenient for me. I cannot see buying a 5D/7D size camera for general purpose use. They are just two big. The 6D is about the perfect size.

But if the 5D IV has 32 MP an articulating screen and it is a baby 1D X it could replace my 7D II for birds. If the 5D IV does not have those then I am not really interested. I keep considering a 5Dsr but do not want to carry it. 

So how much more Sony equipment am I going to buy before they release the 6DII. And will I still care when they do. I still think Canon should consider releasing two cameras that have the same features but simple different body sizes. 5D IV and a compact 5D model. But what do I know. There are plenty of users on here that want the 5D cameras to have 1D bodies.


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## jebrady03 (Apr 15, 2016)

Does anyone else ever read the comments here on CR and just start listing off things in their heads regarding the authors of said comments? Here's how mine go...

It appears that dude's native language is English, but he advanced no further than 9th grade.
That dude doesn't realize he's an idiot.
That dude should be set on fire. Or his genitals, at the very least, to keep him from procreating.
That dude actually sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
If that dude sent a rumor in, CR guy would stop reading at the 7th word.
This dude is "challenged" when it comes to understanding technology AND how businesses work.

and finally, the self-assessment...
I'm surrounded by (mostly) morons. What am I doing here? Oh yeah... these morons sure are entertaining!


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## j-nord (Apr 15, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> Does anyone else ever read the comments here on CR and just start listing off things in their heads regarding the authors of said comments? Here's how mine go...
> 
> It appears that dude's native language is English, but he advanced no further than 9th grade.
> That dude doesn't realize he's an idiot.
> ...


Not particularly but, now I'm thinking these things about you...


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## Ozarker (Apr 15, 2016)

RGF said:


> tiger82 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



But why not? Isn't the new 1DX mark II doing 16 fps? 

Some people say the 5DX/IV won't have a 10-12 fps frame rate because it will eat up the sales of the 1DX Mark II. I don't think so.

Rather, I think it would create a sale that otherwise would not have happened, and move the 5D line into a very competitive position with other brands.

There is enough of a price difference between the two cameras that I think the markets are vastly different.


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## j-nord (Apr 15, 2016)

tcmatthews said:


> This is a disappointment but not really a surprise. I do not plan on buying a new Canon Camera until the 6D II comes out. It is a size issue, the 6D body size is far more convenient for me. I cannot see buying a 5D/7D size camera for general purpose use. They are just two big. The 6D is about the perfect size.
> 
> But if the 5D IV has 32 MP an articulating screen and it is a baby 1D X it could replace my 7D II for birds. If the 5D IV does not have those then I am not really interested. I keep considering a 5Dsr but do not want to carry it.
> 
> So how much more Sony equipment am I going to buy before they release the 6DII. And will I still care when they do. I still think Canon should consider releasing two cameras that have the same features but simple different body sizes. 5D IV and a compact 5D model. But what do I know. There are plenty of users on here that want the 5D cameras to have 1D bodies.



I'm on a similar page. I'm expecting around 30m-pix, this re-enforcement of only 24mpix is disappointing. This marginal increase seems like a day late and a dollar short. It will steer me towards the 5DSR instead. For 50mpix Ill carry a larger body but for 24mpix I wouldn't even consider the upgrade less a considerable bump in DR and ISO performance.


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## slclick (Apr 15, 2016)

No one's getting anything new for a long while if these quakes keep up. Stay safe Japan.


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## jebrady03 (Apr 15, 2016)

j-nord said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > That dude actually sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
> ...



Thanks!


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## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

Takingshots said:


> 2017? Too late when I need one asap.



How can you know you need one before we know anything about the specs?


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## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

tiger82 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > This forum is always entertaining.
> ...



Why not just buy the older model then? The 5D3 is much cheaper now, and will be even cheaper when it replacement comes out. Why not get one of those, instead of a 6D2 if the latter is just old tech relabelled?


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## jedy (Apr 15, 2016)

Well that's a year from now plus another year for the price to come down. I mainly use my 6D in a professional capacity for video - believe me, for web documentaries, it's more than capable with its 1080p and the lack of moire filter really isn't an issue. This rumoured timeframe is making me appreciate what I already have, even if it's not the best in the current market as I cannot wait around that long for a new camera that may or may not offer some beneficial feature upgrades for my needs. The main feature that I find lacking in the current 6D is the fairly poor autofocus system. Other than that, it takes fantastic photos (20MP is perfectly fine) and the video quality is more than enough for current internet streaming. Canon are getting boring keeping us waiting for new equipment (50mm 1.4 springs to mind).


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## Takingshots (Apr 15, 2016)

tcmatthews said:


> This is a disappointment but not really a surprise. I do not plan on buying a new Canon Camera until the 6D II comes out. It is a size issue, the 6D body size is far more convenient for me. I cannot see buying a 5D/7D size camera for general purpose use. They are just two big. The 6D is about the perfect size.
> 
> But if the 5D IV has 32 MP an articulating screen and it is a baby 1D X it could replace my 7D II for birds. If the 5D IV does not have those then I am not really interested. I keep considering a 5Dsr but do not want to carry it.
> 
> So how much more Sony equipment am I going to buy before they release the 6DII. And will I still care when they do. I still think Canon should consider releasing two cameras that have the same features but simple different body sizes. 5D IV and a compact 5D model. But what do I know. There are plenty of users on here that want the 5D cameras to have 1D bodies.


Well said. Give people the choice and their spec preferences with the budget they could afford to purchase either 6D MKii or 5D mk iv. So Canon what are you waiting for. U snooze u lose ...


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## OrangeBjorn (Apr 15, 2016)

2017 for the 6DII? Guess I'm going shopping for the 6D tomorrow


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## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

jedy said:


> Canon are getting boring keeping us waiting for new equipment (50mm 1.4 springs to mind).



We could each pick a product we personally would like to see updated tomorrow. Some would be chosen by more than others (I'm sure the 50mm would be one). But it's not as if they're not releasing new stuff - plenty of lenses and camera bodies have come out in the last couple of years. It's hardly fair to say they're boring just because they haven't released the thing YOU want. Also they have released a new 50mm lens recently, it's just not the precise model you're after.


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## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, but...



mariosk9gr said:


> My 6D has very poor DR



No it doesn't. It's not as high as some other cameras, but it is perfectly capable of excellent photographs at both low and high ISO. If you cannot take good photos with a 6D under most circumstances, you are not a capable photographer and should probably do something else.



mariosk9gr said:


> 1D-X Mark II has no DR improvement and if still has thats going to be a little.



As even DPR admit, the 1DxII (and 80D) has improved DR at low ISO compared to older Canon cameras, and likely greater DR than its direct rival, the Nikon D5, which has been optimised for high ISO performance.



mariosk9gr said:


> So im still waiting for a miracle from them and still nothing!



Nah, you've just not been paying attention.



mariosk9gr said:


> I wish Im wrong



You are.


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## bluenoser1993 (Apr 15, 2016)

nightscape123 said:


> I don't really care about 4K or DPAF, but the 6D should have at least the 80D's AF system, improved sensor, and slightly more MP's. Just those things alone would make it worth it. Added bonus would be DPAF with touchscreen capabilities, which would make it nice for macro work. I just hope the price is reasonable.



Looking at the timing of the 6D, it was announced 2 years after the 60D and they shared similar autofocus. If the 6D Mark II was announced tomorrow, my guess is the autofocus would be more like the 70D. The longer we wait for the 6D II announcement, the better chance that the autofocus will resemble the 80D.


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## Ozarker (Apr 15, 2016)

mariosk9gr said:


> Its very sad every time to wait Canon to make the announcement and that never happens and goes for later and later and later...! 4 years have passed, every other company has refresh once and twice their cameras with very latest technology and we still wait! I paid 5k for C100 Mark II that except the ergonomics, its already out of competition without even a firmware to give at least 10-bit and 4k release.My 6D has very poor DR and the F______ next model will never come.What keeps me still its the L glass and nothing else.No evolution, no DR, no high frame rates in terms of video.1D-X Mark II has no DR i D2 for sure! They don't want to hurt their flagship DSLR.
> So im still waiting for a miracle from them and still nothing! I wish Im wrong and next days to have good news.. at least from a MILC ff camera that will lead the way from now on.



I think many people assume the flagship makes canon more money. I don't believe so. The crop sensor lines are probably mountains of money more profitable. They probably sell hundreds of thousands more units at a higher profit margin. The price of the equipment has nothing to do with profitability. That's just my way of thinking.


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## jebrady03 (Apr 15, 2016)

bluenoser1993 said:


> Looking at the timing of the 6D, it was announced 2 years after the 60D and they shared similar autofocus. If the 6D Mark II was announced tomorrow, my guess is the autofocus would be more like the 70D. The longer we wait for the 6D II announcement, the better chance that the autofocus will resemble the 80D.



60D August 2010
70D July 2013
6D September 2012

The 6D was announced closer to the 70D than the 60D, but still before the 70D. I also don't feel like they share a similar autofocus array. The 60D has 9 cross type points with the center being dual cross type at f/2.8. The 6D has 1 cross type point (center) with -3EV capability and 10 single line (vertical OR horizontal, depending on the location) points. Other than the minimal number of points and the center point being the most impressive point - both of which are fairly generic occurrences, they don't really share any similarities.

Believe it or not, the 6D shares more similarities with the AF system of the Rebel T3i. The T3i has 2 less points and the center point is only -.5EV sensitive, otherwise they spec out basically the same.

The T3i was announced in February of 2011 (T4i in June 2012), roughly a year and a half prior to the 6D - meaning the T3i had already been replaced when the 6D was announced. So, if we assume that the 6D Mark II will have an AF system which has 20% more AF points than the prior generation "high end" Rebel, and if we also assume that the 6D Mark II will be announced next year, then more than likely the comparator would be the T6i/T6s as those were announced Feb 2015 and will likely be replaced in 6-10 months. So, if we increase the number of AF points by 20%, we're up to 23 AF points. Except now, all AF points are cross-type but unlike the 70D (AFAIK), the center AF point is NOT dual cross type.

IF we assume the above is correct, I would expect the 6D AF to spec out like this...
-23 cross type points (maybe 25 so they could do a 5x5 arrangement)
-Center AF point sensitive down to -4EV (Canon mentioned in the 6D announcement that -3EV was the best of all of their current cameras so I would assume they would want to follow that legacy)

Having said that, I'm with you... I'd MUCH rather see an AF system similar to the 80D. But I think the 6D would need to move "upmarket" for that to happen - which is something that has been rumored, so it might happen.


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## pedro (Apr 15, 2016)

Well, just purchased a 6D end of January this year. I am very happy with it. Quite intresting will be the FF mirrorless announcement in my eyes. Hope they put a new 20 MP sensor into it. Could be a nice low light high ISO cam for astroscapes and city night scapes...


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

scyrene said:


> jedy said:
> 
> 
> > Canon are getting boring keeping us waiting for new equipment (50mm 1.4 springs to mind).
> ...



Sure, but it's not like that 50 f/1.8 STM is missing just one thing I want in a 50 -- it's missing just about everything I want in a 50. In fact, the only thing it has in common with the 50 I actually want is the _focal length and the EF mount_. 

To tell us something _close_ to what we wanted coming out is not far from telling the impatiently waiting 6D2 camp that they should chill out because the 80D just dropped. 

- A


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## slclick (Apr 15, 2016)

scyrene said:


> I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dustin stated the 6D has HIGHER DR than the 5D3.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 15, 2016)

mariosk9gr said:


> Scyrene keep your mouth close and don't hurry to make conclusions about a few opinions that they don't serve what you want to hear!



well he was right .. the 1DX II will have significant DR improvement, the 6D has good, just not great DR, and the 80D is certainly an improvement.

perhaps you should have followed your own advice.

you spent thousands? we care? we all have.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 15, 2016)

mariosk9gr said:


> ...a few opinions that they don't serve what you want to hear!



You're welcome to share your opinion, even if the facts don't support it. 



 mariosk9gr said:


> It is unacceptable to not be able to solve 2-3 critical matters to Photography world when all the other brands are fighting with all their power by giving innovation and latest technology.



Well, unacceptable to you personally, at any rate. Because, the



mariosk9gr said:


> ...5d3 is still selling very good as very good still overall performer!



So, clearly lots of people find it perfectly acceptable, most importantly Canon.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 15, 2016)

Dekaner said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > It would be typical idiot canon to drop Dpaf, dual card slots and 4k from a camera that is supposed to move up market.
> ...


What does an entry level camera need to provide?


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 15, 2016)

slclick said:


> Dustin stated the 6D has HIGHER DR than the 5D3.



Yeah, but it's still poor. The Internet says so. :


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## rrcphoto (Apr 15, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Dustin stated the 6D has HIGHER DR than the 5D3.
> ...



it's not poor.

canon has unusable DR, can't shoot anything with it.. if you can't shoot in one shot a nuclear blast through dappled forest leaves then you may as well punt the thing and get a sony.


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:
 

> Dekaner said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



Exactly what the 6D1 delivered -- a solid FF sensor and not much more. 

But now Canon has a ton more competition in this space: Nikon has the D6XX line, Pentax is offering a 5d/D8XX-level of tech at a 6D/D6XX price, and 'entry-level FF' is in Sony's enthusiast wheelhouse to pull folks over to mirrorless.

So Canon has to offer a little more this time around. I'm not saying 'people will bolt if the 6D2 is watered down' so much as _people might not even invest in Canon in the first place_ if the 6D2 is watered down. 

Consider the amateur that feels too limited by their (say) very old Canon T2i, Nikon D90, A6000, etc. and only owns 1-3 lenses. It's not _entirely_ improbable to see someone gin up a 'Consumer Reports'-like spreadsheet with a K1, D610/D620, 6D1/6D2, Sony A7 II, etc. and assess the overall value proposition. 

- A


----------



## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

mariosk9gr said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, but...
> ...



Your English is fine, it's your opinions that are the problem.

Yeah you may well have spent thousands on Canon gear - so have many of us - but that doesn't make you an expert. I have pointed out some factual errors in your previous assertions - for instance that Canon sensors have not increased DR (at base ISO) in recent models, and you ignored them. That is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. "It is unacceptable to not be able to solve 2-3 critical matters to Photography world (sic)" - if you can show how Canon cameras are unable to produce good results in most circumstances then you might have a point. I contend that you cannot, because those 'critical matters' are actually marginal differences between brands - the base DR differences are only noticeable in high contrast situations, or if you want to push shadows a lot, for instance.


----------



## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > jedy said:
> ...



Well done for shoehorning that image in 

What you want hasn't yet been delivered. But Canon has produced a new 50mm lens in the last year, which is what I said. So...


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> But now Canon has a ton more competition in this space: Nikon has the D6XX line, Pentax is offering a 5d/D8XX-level of tech at a 6D/D6XX price, and 'entry-level FF' is in Sony's enthusiast wheelhouse to pull folks over to mirrorless.
> 
> So Canon has to offer a little more this time around. I'm not saying 'people will bolt if the 6D2 is watered down' so much as _people might not even invest in Canon in the first place_ if the 6D2 is watered down.



...but if anyone thinks the 6D2 is going to have some 1DX2/5D4-level AF system, you are high as a kite. 

The AF system, max shutter speed, burst rate, buffer size, viewfinder coverage, doodad connections, cultural cache, radiative awesomeness, etc. will all be nerfed in comparison to the 5D line, which in turn will be (much less) nerfed in comparison to the 1D line. 

The $64,000 question is if Canon sees the 6D2 like a future Nikon D610 (basic, solid, good) vs. a future Nikon D750 (has some D810 sexyness in places, but not everywhere). Those are two different cameras with two very different value propositions.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Well done for shoehorning that image in
> 
> What you want hasn't yet been delivered. But Canon has produced a new 50mm lens in the last year, which is what I said. So...



Didn't mean to wind you up. I get you. 

- A


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 15, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



+1,000,000

Canon has become a joke, the pathetic DR capabilities of their sensors makes me embarrassed to use them, I'd sell them and get a SoNikon but I can't afford to as the resale value is so poor as everybody knows Canon is a joke.

No DR.
No innovation.
No FF mirrorless.
No clue..........

Here is an example from today that illustrates the woeful performance of Canon cameras and lenses, they suck.


----------



## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



I chuckled at this


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> +1,000,000
> 
> Canon has become a joke, the pathetic DR capabilities of their sensors makes me embarrassed to use them, I'd sell them and get a SoNikon but I can't afford to as the resale value is so poor as everybody knows Canon is a joke.
> 
> ...



Yeah, total crap, I see what you mean.

I bet you could only push the water three stops instead of the six you wanted. Screw you, Canon. 

#unacceptable

- A


----------



## scyrene (Apr 15, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Well done for shoehorning that image in
> ...



Ha, it's ok. Your point is well made, and I'm sure we'll all rejoice if and when they produce a new portrait lens (I don;t do much portraiture so it's not so pressing for me).


----------



## jebrady03 (Apr 15, 2016)

I consider 50mm to be an environmental portrait focal length (when used on FF). It's just a personal opinion, of course.


----------



## slclick (Apr 15, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> I consider 50mm to be an environmental portrait focal length (when used on FF). It's just a personal opinion, of course.



Tha 40 pancake as well.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> I consider 50mm to be an environmental portrait focal length (when used on FF). It's just a personal opinion, of course.



Yeah, I didn't expect this crowd to let that go by the boards without a 50 vs. 85 rebuttal. :

I'd take a step in, myself. I'd go head/shoulders on a 50 on FF.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 16, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Canon has become a joke, the pathetic DR capabilities of their sensors makes me embarrassed to use them



+1 googleplex

Your highlights are blown out and there are still shadows in your image. Sad.


----------



## jebrady03 (Apr 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > I consider 50mm to be an environmental portrait focal length (when used on FF). It's just a personal opinion, of course.
> ...



Too much distortion of facial features for my taste. But, that's the beauty of photography - no one is "right" 



slclick said:


> Tha 40 pancake as well.



Yup. Anything wider than 50-60mm is, what I'd consider to be, an environmental portrait if one uses the lens in a way to avoid distortion of facial features.


----------



## mskrystalmeth (Apr 16, 2016)

So this means at the same...either before or after Canon Announces their Mark Something...Nikon Will introduce D900 80mp. Cuz Sony is about to announce their A9 with 80mp.


----------



## Cory (Apr 16, 2016)

Getting very excited for my new 6D. I think I order on Monday with hopefully selling my 70D and 10-18 over the weekend plus maybe one of my firearms that's collecting dust. They say, "Beware the man with one camera - he probably knows how to use it." or something like that.


----------



## d (Apr 16, 2016)

Looking forward to a 6D II simply so I can pick up a 6D at a bargain price. I've already purchased a s/h RRS L-plate for it from ebay, now I just need the camera!

d.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Sure, but if it's your _opinion_ that the Earth is flat, or that the 1D C is not a dSLR, then sharing that opinion just makes you look foolish.


----------



## rrcphoto (Apr 16, 2016)

mskrystalmeth said:


> So this means at the same...either before or after Canon Announces their Mark Something...Nikon Will introduce D900 80mp. Cuz Sony is about to announce their A9 with 80mp.



sure they are.

and so what? canon's already stated they are coming out with a 120MP DSLR.


----------



## Dekaner (Apr 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> the 5Ds, for which there are rumors of it being replaced this year.



Are you trying to start a new rumor? I'd put this at a rating of CR negative 1.


----------



## FECHariot (Apr 16, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> bluenoser1993 said:
> 
> 
> > Looking at the timing of the 6D, it was announced 2 years after the 60D and they shared similar autofocus. If the 6D Mark II was announced tomorrow, my guess is the autofocus would be more like the 70D. The longer we wait for the 6D II announcement, the better chance that the autofocus will resemble the 80D.
> ...



I doubt we would see 80D level AF but I happy if it did. I am just hoping it will be no less than a 7D/70Dish level AF system


----------



## j-nord (Apr 16, 2016)

Dekaner said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > the 5Ds, for which there are rumors of it being replaced this year.
> ...



Seems legit :


----------



## j-nord (Apr 16, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> mskrystalmeth said:
> 
> 
> > So this means at the same...either before or after Canon Announces their Mark Something...Nikon Will introduce D900 80mp. Cuz Sony is about to announce their A9 with 80mp.
> ...


Thats as helpful as saying they are coming out with an 18 fps dslr. Its a technological progression that we can reasonably expect. When, not if, is the relevent component.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> That won't directly impact the 6D line.
> 
> A 80MP or 90MP D830 is more of a threat to the 5Ds, for which there are rumors of it being replaced this year.
> 
> ...



I think the market's FF segmentation is not aligned. Whereas Canon and Nikon go product vs. product in a very similar market setup at other price points (D500 vs. 7D2, D5500 vs. Rebels, etc.), due to a host of reasons, the FF rigs are in a bit of weird 'soup' of indirect / 'kindasorta' comparison. 

See attached as an example. I've offered two ways to slice the market, and neither look quite right, IMHO.

- A


----------



## symmar22 (Apr 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Dekaner said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Sounds logic, when every camera in the line-up gets the new sensor with improved DR, it doesn't make sense that the only one with the (almost) DR and noise level from 10 years ago is the one dedicated to the highest image quality. Looks like the 5Ds/r will have a very short lifespan, IMO it will be more difficult to sell once the 5D4 is available. An old sensor technology in a 5d3 body won't do any more. 

Plus 24 Mpx only in the 5D4 will be disappointing for some (me included), one could have hoped for a slight increase, I still think that Sony or Nikon are right in making a stronger sensor differentiation within their range. In the end, once again, all Canon full frame will have the same resolution again (20-24mpx) except the 5DS/R and its old(er) sensor tech.

I am fearing that the 5D4 resolution looks very old school in 3-4 years, and am really hoping they go around 30Mpx.


----------



## scyrene (Apr 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



But is that a correct analogy? If someone says 'a blue car can't go as fast as a red one' then their opinion is wrong (unless they can support it with evidence, which is unlikely in this case). 

The opinions weren't 'I don't like Canon', they were e.g. 'the 1DxII doesn't have any more DR than older Canon cameras', and the prediction that the new 6D won't either. The first is demonstrably incorrect, and the latter is unlikely given what we've seen of the last two releases (the 1DxII and the 80D).

I know you think that all opinions are equally valid, but as other have pointed out to you, that's just wrong. Everyone can - and has every right to - hold any opinion they like. But that does not make them all equally true or valuable. Opinions based on evidence are superior to opinions that are contradicted by evidence.


----------



## LoneRider (Apr 16, 2016)

symmar22 said:


> I am fearing that the 5D4 resolution looks very old school in 3-4 years, and am really hoping they go around 30Mpx.



*If* full frame width 4K video is a priority, that may dictate sensor resolution in regards to scaling.

So, here is a debate, what does product management work on first, 5DS-ii or 6D-ii??

And if the successor of the 5DS does not get DPAF (which I would suspect it won't), and the 5D-iv does, do you call that successor the 4D?


----------



## d (Apr 16, 2016)

symmar22 said:


> Looks like the 5Ds/r will have a very short lifespan, IMO it will be more difficult to sell once the 5D4 is available. An old sensor technology in a 5d3 body won't do any more.
> 
> Plus 24 Mpx only in the 5D4 will be disappointing for some (me included), one could have hoped for a slight increase, I still think that Sony or Nikon are right in making a stronger sensor differentiation within their range. In the end, once again, all Canon full frame will have the same resolution again (20-24mpx) except the 5DS/R and its old(er) sensor tech.
> 
> I am fearing that the 5D4 resolution looks very old school in 3-4 years, and am really hoping they go around 30Mpx.



I fail to see how a 24-30MP 5D4 is going to displace or grossly affect the 5DS models - their sensors are perfectly fine for their intended purposes. 

Likewise you're splitting hairs worrying about a 5D4 having 24MP instead of 30MP - that's a tiny difference in practical terms, and either would likely seem "archaic" in four years time, if that's the perspective you take.

d.


----------



## symmar22 (Apr 16, 2016)

d said:


> symmar22 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like the 5Ds/r will have a very short lifespan, IMO it will be more difficult to sell once the 5D4 is available. An old sensor technology in a 5d3 body won't do any more.
> ...



What I meant is the 5D4, if it actually comes with a 24Mpx sensor, falls already in the "low res" for a full frame sensor in 2016, I am afraid it's not a very future proof choice. It's the perspective I take since considering Canon's refresh pace, the 5D5 shouldn't appear until 2019-20.

Personally, I would have preferred something in the 32-36Mpx range, leaving a place for a 5DS/R2 with 50-60Mpx. 

My point of view is that I would have loved to replace my ageing 5D2s with something with more resolution AND a more modern sensor. Looks like I'll have to wait for the 5Ds/r2.

The 5Ds is fine considering Canon's offering now, but it is supposed to be the camera that offers the best image quality for Canon. Once the whole line up will have been refreshed with the newer tech sensors, it will become some kind of oddity. 

Now that Canon finally uses the on chip ADC, best image quality doesn't mean more pixels only, it also means better DR and as little noise as possible on their top image quality camera.


----------



## scyrene (Apr 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



So does this http://www.dpreview.com/news/7168986570/canon-shows-dynamism-eos-80d-breaks-new-ground-for-canon-low-iso-dr or this http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57460079 for example not count?


----------



## Orangutan (Apr 16, 2016)

scyrene said:


> If someone says 'a blue car can't go as fast as a red one' then their opinion is wrong (unless they can support it with evidence, which is unlikely in this case).



If they're going fast enough, it would be factual to say the blue car is coming toward you, and the red car is going away from you.


----------



## pedro (Apr 16, 2016)

symmar22 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Dekaner said:
> ...



I actually don't care how old school Canon sensor MP count will look in 3-4 years. I appreciate it if Canon are keeping it in the decent 20s. IIRC they stated to hold on to this policy sometime back in the day the 5DIII came out. So anyone who needs more has the 5DS/SR and I hope for these cams there will be an upgrade as late as end of 2017, with the new sensor tech implemented.


----------



## FECHariot (Apr 16, 2016)

symmar22 said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > symmar22 said:
> ...



If you give the 5D4 36mpix then the FPS will suffer. There is already the 5Ds and sR for high Mpix. Given the 5D series better AF over the 6D, I think it would make better sense to have the 6D2 be at the middle 36mpix ground and keep the FPS as high as possible but I wouldn't expect more than 4-5 FPS. On the other hand the 5D4 with 24mpix and 8-10 FPS wouldn't be 5 year old tech. Nikon is only offering 6.5 with the D750 at 24mpix. So a healthy increase in FPS wouldn't be old tech.


----------



## j-nord (Apr 16, 2016)

I think 24mpix is a mistake unless they go big on IQ improvements and FPS. Some people would prefer this route and others prefer 7-8fps and 30ish mpix. I think Canon could go either way still but it also depends on their plans for the 6D and 5DS/R line.


----------



## slclick (Apr 16, 2016)

In regards to the 5D4/X which is a segue from this thread's original topic...

How about if everyone gets what they want? Canon can price it accordingly...$4999


Yeah, that won't work will it (especially you guys in the give me a 1DX at 5D prices) It's Canon, it will have incremental boosts and it will take great photographs if you RTFM.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 16, 2016)

j-nord said:


> I think 24mpix is a mistake unless they go big on IQ improvements and FPS. Some people would prefer this route and others prefer 7-8fps and 30ish mpix. I think Canon could go either way still but it also depends on their plans for the 6D and 5DS/R line.



I think some folks (not necessarily you) are getting hung up on a number bump for MP _representing clear progress in a value proposition_ to substantiate this major purchase & justify how much better it is. Consider: a jump from the current 22 MP to 30 MP isn't very much at all:

5D3 @22 MP = 5760 x 3840
5D4 @ 30 MP ~ 6700 x 4500 

I'm not knocking the value of added resolution -- I'm just saying that squares are a b---- to scale. 

I see purchasing my next rig if it demonstrably improves a limit of my current camera that I often run into. *Resolution simply isn't one of those limits.* Sure, I'd like more detail, but my biggest frustrations with my 5D3 are a mix of common comments you'd see here sprinkled in with some personal peculiarities:


Shockingly, very high ISO leads to noise -- I need cleaner shots at ISO > 6400 as I shoot what's around me as it happens and I can't bring a flash or wait for better lighting in many instances.
AFMA is annoying, not super repeatable and frustrating. I'd love that to be automated.
I want spot metering at any AF point. Why? Because it's 2016. $500 Nikon crop SLRs have this feature.
I often am stuck with a handheld landscape shot (say on walkabout, a hike, etc.) -- a nonscripted landscape opportunity -- that has more dynamic range that I can reel in with one exposure. I fully recognize the gulf between what a sensor can reel in vs. what our eyes can see, but any improvement would be appreciated.
Occasionally, when shooting something of immense detail -- a city landscape for instance -- I naturally want to peer deeper into the shot and see what I can see. That is one fairly rare circumstance in which more pixels would help me.

I honestly don't think I'm getting the 5D4, though. It would have to be something comically better on the high ISO noise or low ISO DR side of things -- say two stops. I don't expect that to occur, but who knows?

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Apr 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



what are you going on about now?

bclaff as already done the SNR and DR chart for the 80D, dpreview has tested the raw lattitude ..


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 16, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Hey, it's dilbert. The guy who thinks Canon broadcast field lenses are actually cameras and that the 1D C isn't a dSLR. Don't expect him to let facts get in the way of his foolish opinions. :


----------



## d (Apr 16, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> what are you going on about now?
> 
> bclaff as already done the SNR and DR chart for the 80D, dpreview has tested the raw lattitude ..



Ironically, dilbert himself was last week posting links to bclaff's website for this information!!

d.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 16, 2016)

d said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > what are you going on about now?
> ...



It's just an _opinion_. :


----------



## rrcphoto (Apr 16, 2016)

symmar22 said:


> My point of view is that I would have loved to replace my ageing 5D2s with something with more resolution AND a more modern sensor. Looks like I'll have to wait for the 5Ds/r2.



yeah because you'll see a huge difference in between 24 and 30 or so Mp.. 

for over 6+ years now the common Mp's for a DSLR has been around 24MP.

A7 and A7II for instance have been around 24MP. A900, 24MP, D750 24MP.. there's little evidence that it's going to change or even that a change between something like 24 to 30 is going to amount to a hill of beans.


----------



## rrcphoto (Apr 16, 2016)

d said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > what are you going on about now?
> ...



oh god.. *dies*


----------



## d (Apr 16, 2016)

My mistake...it was a little over two weeks ago.

*Red font is my doing*



dilbert said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > Better still, the author's site
> ...






dilbert said:


> For an idea of how much better the 5DsR is than the 5D3:
> 
> http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Canon%20EOS%205DS%20R
> 
> ...


----------



## davidmurray (Apr 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > This forum is always entertaining.
> ...



IMHO the only thing that legitimizes a whine is a whine glass. 

Based on the range of cameras and lenses that Canon has been making, based on the reputation that Canon's photography products have, and based on the fact that Canon is continuing to make a fair profit from its DSLR cameras and lenses, I'd say Canon very well knows the market, and knows what will sell, and what sort of person will buy those products.

More power to them, and long may they remain the market leader, and I look forward to seeing what next beauty they tempt me with.


----------



## d (Apr 16, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Based on the range of cameras and lenses that Canon has been making, based on the reputation that Canon's photography products have, and based on the fact that Canon is continuing to make a fair profit from its DSLR cameras and lenses, I'd say Canon very well knows the market, and knows what will sell, and what sort of person will buy those products.
> 
> More power to them, and long may they remain the market leader, and I look forward to seeing what next beauty they tempt me with.



There's no disputing Canon's success...but honestly, being able to spot meter off the current AF point is a no brainer - they should just do this!


----------



## jebrady03 (Apr 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> I honestly don't think I'm getting the 5D4, though. It would have to be something comically better on the high ISO noise or low ISO DR side of things -- say two stops. I don't expect that to occur, but who knows?
> 
> - A



I think you need to be ready to buy the 5D Mark 4. It may not show a full two stops of improvement via DXO, but in the real world, I think it will. Remember, the 5D Mark 3 shows pattern noise and the character of the noise is pretty offensive. The newer sensors don't show that pattern noise and the character of the noise is much improved. Therefore, I believe you should easily get a two-stop Improvement in image quality. Again, that may not translate to test charts, but in the real world, I think it will.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 16, 2016)

d said:


> There's no disputing Canon's success...but honestly, being able to spot meter off the current AF point is a no brainer - they should just do this!



Oh, they do. You just need to buy a 1-series body.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > There's no disputing Canon's success...but honestly, being able to spot meter off the current AF point is a no brainer - they should just do this!
> ...



I liken spot metering at any AF point to anti-lock brakes in cars. Decades ago, only one or two companies had this technology. Then everyone had it, but it was a premium option. Now it is everywhere.

_Except for Canon_, who only sells it on their Rolls Royce. I actually agree with about 90% of what Canon does (I'm usually defending them in this forum), but this one always me scratching my head.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> I liken spot metering at any AF point to anti-lock brakes in cars. Decades ago, only one or two companies had this technology. Then everyone had it, but it was a premium option. Now it is everywhere.
> 
> _Except for Canon_, who only sells it on their Rolls Royce. I actually agree with about 90% of what Canon does (I'm usually defending them in this forum), but this one always me scratching my head.
> 
> - A



And yes, I appreciate the irony that you can replace 'spot metering at any AF point' in my post above with '4K'. 

- A


----------



## crashpc (Apr 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > This forum is always entertaining.
> ...



Some people do whine like that, but not all. I am long-term Canon user. Started with EOS 450D.
The problem is, that Canon keeps most of their "class features" the same. Other companies give more. Of course, they have to, because Canon is the leader, but it might not be like that in oncoming decade. After loving Canon, using it more that 10 years (propably 15-17, using their compact cams), I´m finally jumping the ship for no added feature, jut better sensor in that money range. They milked me too much...


----------



## j-nord (Apr 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > I think 24mpix is a mistake unless they go big on IQ improvements and FPS. Some people would prefer this route and others prefer 7-8fps and 30ish mpix. I think Canon could go either way still but it also depends on their plans for the 6D and 5DS/R line.
> ...



I agree with most of what you said but for me, with a 6D, 30mpix 7-8fps better AF and a better sensor is a pretty huge jump. I crop liberally and want to be able to produce large prints. When I do upgrade ill probably go 5DSR not 5DIV.


----------



## hne (Apr 17, 2016)

March 2017? Oh my... On reading this, I gave up waiting for an affordable FF body with DPAF and bought a used 70D for video. I guess I'll be carrying around two bodies for the foreseeable future :-\


----------



## Sporgon (Apr 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > d said:
> ...



There is probably a reason why Canon only offer spot meter around AF point on 1 series: they would assume that those users are aware of the dangers.

Nowadays people seem to have completely forgotten that spot meters were intended for taking multiple spot readings and then choosing where you wanted to make the exposure. Taking a shot based upon one spot meter reading is really risky. OK, much less so with digital, but then so is any other form of metering or exposure.


----------



## d (Apr 17, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> There is probably a reason why Canon only offer spot meter around AF point on 1 series: they would assume that those users are aware of the dangers.
> 
> Nowadays people seem to have completely forgotten that spot meters were intended for taking multiple spot readings and then choosing where you wanted to make the exposure. Taking a shot based upon one spot meter reading is really risky. OK, much less so with digital, but then so is any other form of metering or exposure.



Canon should remove the 'M' setting from the mode dial of lower model cameras - it's quite a risky setting as well. They wouldn't want uninformed photographers compromising their images with it.

d.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 17, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > d said:
> ...



Of course, Canon should include every possible feature in all their cameras. It's totally unacceptable that the 1D X cannot do in-camera HDR like even a little PowerShot. And now they've totally crippled the 1D X II in the exact same way.


----------



## Sporgon (Apr 17, 2016)

d said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > There is probably a reason why Canon only offer spot meter around AF point on 1 series: they would assume that those users are aware of the dangers.
> ...



No. Manual mode can make use of the meter like any other mode: just centre the needle. That is no different to what's happing in any other mode. 

The point with spot metering is that unless you are aware that 'correct' exposure is based on the density of the light falling on the subject - known as incident light - your exposure could be way out depending upon how much light the subject is absorbing and the range of tones within the spot metering area.

So it may be a 'no-brainer' for you, but then you will be aware of how much of an under or over exposure a reflective light meter will give on a white or black subject. 

At least I assume you do. But on the other hand if you don't it would explain your strong desire for an AF point spot meter.


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## d (Apr 17, 2016)

Your exposure can be way out on a camera because of a number of different settings - that was my point about manual mode. I don't think Canon leave AF-linked spot metering off the 5D3 to protect its users from its "dangers" - it's just crippling a useful feature to keep it exclusive to the flagship body.

And yes, I'm aware of the variations possible with reflected meter readings.

Cheers,
d.


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## FECHariot (Apr 17, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



Not sure what your point here is. You can use exposure compensation with any of the current metering modes. It doesn't mean having the ability to lock a spot meter to the active Aaf point wouldn't also at times need exposure compensation too.


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## unfocused (Apr 17, 2016)

Can someone provide an example of this metering issue that suddenly seems to be so important?

I've always found Canon's default metering to be nothing short of brilliant. Sure, there are lighting conditions where it is necessary to adjust exposure compensation. But why is that a big deal? You just look at the scene and adjust accordingly based on experience. It doesn't seem that difficult to me.

I'm not trying to be rude here. I'm genuinely curious what the big deal is.


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## FECHariot (Apr 17, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Can someone provide an example of this metering issue that suddenly seems to be so important?
> 
> I've always found Canon's default metering to be nothing short of brilliant. Sure, there are lighting conditions where it is necessary to adjust exposure compensation. But why is that a big deal? You just look at the scene and adjust accordingly based on experience. It doesn't seem that difficult to me.
> 
> I'm not trying to be rude here. I'm genuinely curious what the big deal is.



Taking a portrait with a backlit subject. The subject is at the rule of thirds and you want to expose for the face and don't care or even prefer if the sun is blown out. Or pretty much any time you would use spot metering and don't want your subject dead center of the frame.


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## unfocused (Apr 17, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone provide an example of this metering issue that suddenly seems to be so important?
> ...



Seems just as easy to dial in some exposure compensation. I guess it's just a difference in working style.


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## d (Apr 17, 2016)

unfocused said:


> FECHariot said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Depends how fast you're trying to work, and whether or not the light is changing.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 17, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone provide an example of this metering issue that suddenly seems to be so important?
> ...



Set center spot metering on subject, press AE lock, recompose, shoot. 

Personally, I find AF-linked spot metering most useful when using iTR to track a bird in the sky as it moves through the frame.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 17, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone provide an example of this metering issue that suddenly seems to be so important?
> ...



well, there's no way i'd take a portrait in this case without using some sort of flash or reflective light to start off with. it's the classic I don't know what I'm doing and I just took a picture with zombied dead eyes

secondly evaluative metering will put the emphasis on the focus point. or you AE lock on the face and compose.


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## FECHariot (Apr 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> FECHariot said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Or airshow shooting planes in flight. Sure you can use AE lock in my example but wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to


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## FECHariot (Apr 17, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> FECHariot said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Valid point so instead of portrait how about shooting soccer in the early morning or late evening and the subject is backlit and the sun is in the frame. And depending on the backlighting using evaluative still might not cut it.


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## Luds34 (Apr 17, 2016)

symmar22 said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > symmar22 said:
> ...



What is going on with all the megapixel talk/love around here lately? I feel like I just time wharped to a number of years ago. 

18, 24, 30, ehhhh it's all about the same, especially keeping in mind it's not a linear relationship in regards to resolution. I enjoy this forum, but sometimes I'm left wondering if anyone actually gets out and shoots anymore. I mean com'on, your 18mp sensor can't capture a good picture?


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## jebrady03 (Apr 17, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Seems just as easy to dial in some exposure compensation. I guess it's just a difference in working style.



I use full manual, including manual ISO because I don't trust the metering from my 6D. It generally underexposes by a full stop in most lighting conditions - more than likely because the metering isn't tied to the AF point. Sometimes it underexposes by as much as 2 stops. Exposure comp doesn't exist in full manual mode, hence why I'm stuck using manual ISO as well.


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## Luds34 (Apr 17, 2016)

j-nord said:


> I agree with most of what you said but for me, with a 6D, 30mpix 7-8fps better AF and a better sensor is a pretty huge jump. I crop liberally and want to be able to produce large prints. When I do upgrade ill probably go 5DSR not 5DIV.



Do you ever think about getting the composition right (or better) in the camera?


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## unfocused (Apr 17, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > FECHariot said:
> ...



Actually, I do shoot soccer (and other outdoor sports). As I said, I guess it's just a matter of your working style. With most sporting events, it's pretty easy to shoot a test shot (no action required) get an idea of what the lighting is like and adjust the exposure appropriately. The light is going to change as I go from one side of the field to the other, or one end zone to the other. And, yes, as the sun drops, there will be changes. But none of these are rocket science. Just adjust as you go. 

My point is not that it isn't handy. It's that I personally don't see it as a make or break feature. 

Contrast that with: 

– Noise at higher ISOs. Every sensor breaks down sooner or later as the ISO climbs and there isn't anything you can do about it. So, I can see the value of a sensor that gives you good high ISO performance and I'm willing to pay for that.

– Dynamic range. If I'm shooting any sport where the players wear caps, visors or helmets it's difficult to balance the shadow detail in the face with the rest of the ambient light, so I can see the value of greater dynamic range. Same with a dark bird in flight against the sky.

– Autofocus. I can't control the speed of the subjects I'm shooting. So the better the autofocus, the better my changes of getting the shot. I'm willing to pay for that.

– Higher framerate. Most sports are played with balls and some of those balls move really fast. Increasing the odds I can capture the ball in the frame is worth it for me to pay for it.

So, as I say, for me personally, I've had very good success with the exposure system Canon has been using. Improvements might be handy, but they don't strike me as a make or break issue.


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## zim (Apr 17, 2016)

dilbert said:


> symmar22 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



So your actually committing to buying a Sony or are we still at CR1 with that one ?


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## Luds34 (Apr 17, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone provide an example of this metering issue that suddenly seems to be so important?
> ...



But even in that case you can still use default metering, assuming you are shooting with relatively fast glass, the camera is smart enough to know what you want in focus. I've often seen the camera let the background blow out if it detects it's out of focus, even with a primitive Rebel series from years ago.

Frankly I think people try to over think it sometimes. And they use advanced settings and "get it wrong". 99% of the time the camera will get it close enough to "right" that you can tweak it correctly in post.


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## Luds34 (Apr 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> FECHariot said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Which is exactly what I do. One nice advantage of BBF is decoupling focus and exposure lock. One of my "dirty" tricks is to just point the camera downward (no backlit window/scene), lock exposure, then compose and take the shot!


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## dak723 (Apr 18, 2016)

Luds34 said:


> symmar22 said:
> 
> 
> > d said:
> ...



You forget. This is a gear-head forum. A higher number MUST be better. So, even though I can get a nice print well over 24" with my 20 MP camera, I really need to see Canon "compete" with Sony and go higher with the MPs. Even though there have probably been hundreds of posts explaining how more MPs are a NEGATIVE for photographers who don't need the extreme resolution, since lower MPs means lower noise, the gear heads will never get it. After all, how can you brag to your gear-head friends when your camera only has 24 MP?


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## rrcphoto (Apr 18, 2016)

Luds34 said:


> FECHariot said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



evaluative metering does that.
it will use the focus point as the metering priority.


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## FECHariot (Apr 18, 2016)

unfocused said:


> So, as I say, for me personally, I've had very good success with the exposure system Canon has been using. Improvements might be handy, but they don't strike me as a make or break issue.



Of course it's not make or break. Heck I got away with only manual focus in the 80s. That doesn't mean I I want to go back. I welcome new features and linked spot exposure to AF point would be a nice addition.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 18, 2016)

dilbert said:


> You might want to do what the rest of us are doing and upgrade from the 5D2 or 5D3 to the Sony A7RII.



:


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## scyrene (Apr 18, 2016)

dak723 said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > symmar22 said:
> ...



There is a lot of that. But not everyone asking for more MP is doing so because they think more of everything is better. Print size is not the only metric - there is also cropping. I'd actually bet that for most people, cropping is more important than being able to print large - I mean, how many people (amateurs especially) produce prints at A2 or larger, and how often if they do? But cropping is a common part of producing the best image possible for many of us (sure, I'm not presenting any evidence of that, it's just an intuition plus anecdotal experience).

And the old 'more MP will harm image quality' - can we lay that one to rest once and for all? If you are viewing at the same size, whether on screen or in print, increasing MP will not harm image quality. Noise per pixel might go up, but image noise does not. Sharpness is not harmed, and may be helped. Diffraction and camera shake are again only affected viewed at 100%. The only objective downsides are lower frame rates (compared to a camera of lower resolution from the same era) and higher file sizes. They are not insignificant, but they don't affect image quality.

[Disclaimer: I'm not a technical expert, this has been garnered from reading interminable discussions online, and articles on these things etc. If I've made any errors, please let me know.]


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## ksgal (Apr 18, 2016)

I don't know why I'm going to even bother but I have a real world example in my living room, hanging on the wall, and it goes to events with me. 

Horse in a field, full body + some pasture in the original shot- raw file. 

I cropped it to only a head shot, maybe 20% of the frame with LR. exported to 300dpi for a 20x30inch print. 

Off my 15 megapixel 50D . 

Everyone, horse lover or not , complements me on that picture. 

The lure of more pixels from the 5Ds line is awesome, and may be necessary for some applications. But I know others have experimented, and printed comparisons, 5D3 vs 5Dsr and found that the general public, and even most photographers flat don't see the difference. 

So, 24mp camera is just DANDY for me. Will be plenty for most people buying in that segment. If you need 50mpx, then get the appropriate camera. JMHO. YMMV.


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## j-nord (Apr 18, 2016)

Luds34 said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with most of what you said but for me, with a 6D, 30mpix 7-8fps better AF and a better sensor is a pretty huge jump. I crop liberally and want to be able to produce large prints. When I do upgrade ill probably go 5DSR not 5DIV.
> ...



Wow, I've never thought of this before... :

Wildlife only lets you get so close and my 24-70 often doesn't have enough reach for the landscapes I want to compose. I don't drive around and shoot, I mostly shoot while hiking or biking so I have different priorities/requirements. I'm constantly debating gear I want vs. gear I can practically carry


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## Luds34 (Apr 18, 2016)

ksgal said:


> So, 24mp camera is just DANDY for me. Will be plenty for most people buying in that segment. If you need 50mpx, then get the appropriate camera. JMHO. YMMV.



+1

I realize this is just my selfish problem, but I shoot RAW exclusively. And all these files take up space, need to be backed up to the cloud, and Lightroom is slow enough as it is. The larger the file, the slower my workflow goes. Since I'm completely happy with 16mp, 18mp, 20mp (resolutions of current cameras I own), I see higher pixels as a detriment. So again, just my own selfish reasons, but those of you asking for 36mp on the next 6D please go buy a 5Ds and let us lower res folks be.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 18, 2016)

ksgal said:


> I don't know why I'm going to even bother but I have a real world example in my living room, hanging on the wall, and it goes to events with me.
> 
> Horse in a field, full body + some pasture in the original shot- raw file.
> 
> ...



Whilst I can't argue the aesthetic of your image, I will state quite categorically that a 20"x30" print made from 3mp does not exhibit the kind of detail I want and need. Being a pretty picture has no bearing on the particular image's technical qualities, and whilst the end goal is a compelling image, few images printed to that size wouldn't benefit from more MP.

Not that I care one iota how many MP the 6D MkII has either, though it does seem a curious 'want' from the Canon FF budget option. From a sales point of view I can't see any logic to the 6D MkII having a MP advantage over the 5D MkIV, does the 6D have one over the 5D MkIII? No.


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## symmar22 (Apr 18, 2016)

symmar22 said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > What is going on with all the megapixel talk/love around here lately? I feel like I just time wharped to a number of years ago.
> ...



Yes it's a gear head forum, and every one has their wishes. Technical specs increase seems a natural process for high tech gear doesn't it ? What is going on with all that high ISO / higher FPS / lower noise / weather sealing talk/love around lately ?

You could as well make excellent pictures with a film Canon AE-1. I think it's perfectly normal to expect the overall technical specs of a newer camera get updated, and yes that includes more and better pixels, better AF, higher frame rate, higher ISO, among other features. Can't you make a good picture with 4 or 5 FPS only ? Or with 1600 ISO only ? Or with a non TTL flash system ? Or with a 6D AF system ? 

Well I guess it depends on what kind of pictures you make. Everyone is crying for a top class AF and 8 FPS, I think that's what the 1DX(2) is designed for. That debate around more pixel will always be here, like the one around a better AF, more FPS, more DR, a better flash system, better light metering and so on.

It's not to confuse the capabilities of a camera and what you do with it. I do architecture and interiors photography for a living, and for me a bit more detail is always good to take. I don't even use the AF, or more than 400 ISO, I work mainly with studio strobes, I have absolutely no use in high frame rate and I never did a single video in my whole life.

But I don't complain when these features are included in my camera and they are useful for other people. I perfectly understand my needs are not necessarily other people needs, but I think its not unreasonable to ask Canon to push the envelope a bit in every direction with the 5D4, especially after 4 years of development. Or we could decide the 5D3 is perfectly fine for the 10 next years, and there is no need for newer cameras (or for a forum to discuss it).


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## j-nord (Apr 18, 2016)

I don't know if this tech is out yet but I'm sure we will see it soon (unless I'm missing some fundamental issue with it): FF 50mpix sensor with the option to 'skip' pixels and generate a 25mpix FF image. We've seen higher speed crop modes so this is essentially the same idea. The issue probably comes down to pixel density being high enough where skipping pixels won't destroy the IQ.


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## hmatthes (Apr 18, 2016)

cerealito said:


> If the 6Dii is sort of a FF 80d, then I will instantly buy it.
> 
> In the meanwhile my 1.5 year old 70d is still giving me amazing results 8), take your time canon



*Exactly!* Love my 70D but want FF. Don't like the AF on the current 6D -- Gimme a FF 80D (6D2)


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## The Flasher (Apr 18, 2016)

I'd like for the 6D to have an articulating screen and dual SD card slots. 

FIGHT!


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 18, 2016)

j-nord said:


> I don't know if this tech is out yet but I'm sure we will see it soon (unless I'm missing some fundamental issue with it): FF 50mpix sensor with the option to 'skip' pixels and generate a 25mpix FF image. We've seen higher speed crop modes so this is essentially the same idea. The issue probably comes down to pixel density being high enough where skipping pixels won't destroy the IQ.



Typically, you'd bin four pixels together rather that 'skip', yielding a 12.5 MP image without need for color interpolation.


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## j-nord (Apr 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if this tech is out yet but I'm sure we will see it soon (unless I'm missing some fundamental issue with it): FF 50mpix sensor with the option to 'skip' pixels and generate a 25mpix FF image. We've seen higher speed crop modes so this is essentially the same idea. The issue probably comes down to pixel density being high enough where skipping pixels won't destroy the IQ.
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. I guess we need to see about 80 mpix sensors before this feature would make sense, yielding a 20mpix image. I don't think the market would be interested in a mode much less than that.


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## timcz (Apr 20, 2016)

Just a question for everyone that wants the articulated screen - does this reduce the ability for the camera to be weather sealed as a result?


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## TheJock (Apr 20, 2016)

Hmmm, so the last time this thread was on topic was _waaaaaay_ back on page 6!!!
5 pages later and we _might_ be squeezing it back in to relevant again ;D


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## privatebydesign (Apr 20, 2016)

timcz said:


> Just a question for everyone that wants the articulated screen - does this reduce the ability for the camera to be weather sealed as a result?



No!

Whatever the naysayers might try to say, Olympus make a fully waterproof camera, as in warrantied for use in water, with an articulated screen. Oh, and it isn't a costly process, the entire camera costs $129..........


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## j-nord (Apr 20, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> timcz said:
> 
> 
> > Just a question for everyone that wants the articulated screen - does this reduce the ability for the camera to be weather sealed as a result?
> ...



I think we could see it on the 6DII. The top of their class and action shooting capable bodies: 1Dxii, 5Div and possibly the 7Diii will remain without. I could see the 5DS/R replacement with one since its a favorite for architecture, landscape, product photography.


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## verysimplejason (Apr 20, 2016)

j-nord said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > timcz said:
> ...



Articulated screen + DPAF. I can find a lot of uses already...


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## slclick (Apr 20, 2016)

An articulated 6D2 would be my dedicated macro rig


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## dak723 (Apr 21, 2016)

scyrene said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...



We can not lay it to rest because physics will not let it lay. The 5Ds & r have IQ (noise, DR) closer to a crop body because they have the same smaller pixels and greater pixel density compared to a 20 something MP FF body. Camera shake is real and Canon spent time and money redesigning their mirror system trying to reduce shake for the 5Ds and r exactly because it has high MPs. Numerous photographers have recommended using faster shutter speeds because they are necessary to avoid the blur. These things are real - not just at the pixel level. The 50 MP 5Ds and r have given us real life examples of both the positive (higher resolution and sharpness) and the negative (more noise, lower DR, more camera shake blur). That's why some of us don't want more than 20 something MPs in their FF cameras.


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## geekpower (Apr 21, 2016)

dak723 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



Facepalm... You can't say you have physic on your side, and then not use any physics.

Obviously a 50 Mpix image cropped to 20 Mpix then printed in the same size as an original 20 Mpix image will look worse, because it is in effect magnifying any problems that are seen at the pixel level. But a 50 Mpix image printed at hig res, or downsampled and properly dithered, will look at least as good, and probably better than a 20 Mpix image printed at the same size, because it will be in effect compressing any pixel level issues.

50 Mpix may not be practical or ideal for everyone, but the claim that more pixels = worse quality is counter to all logic.


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## scyrene (Apr 21, 2016)

geekpower said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Well said, geekpower. Sorry, dak, but you're just wrong on this one. The *whole captured image*, i.e. the output from the whole sensor, viewed the same size, will show the same amount of shake (the same applies to image-level noise, but that's also dependent on the sensors being from the same generation, using the same technology, the shots taken at the same ISO, processed the same etc). Think of it this way: let's say camera shake is 10 microns. That's the same distance compared to the sensor no matter how the sensor is subdivided into pixels. Higher resolution sensors show it more *at 100%* because they can resolve more detail. But as I clearly said, we're talking about images viewed at the same size, not at 100%.

Even two images taken with the same camera may be indistinguishable in terms of camera shake until you view them at a high enough magnification. When I upload a batch of images, I can discard ones with major shake-induced blur (or softness due to misfocusing) without zooming in. But for very fine differences, I have to view at full resolution, because the shake is below the level that is detectable when viewed at normalised scale (whatever it happens to be). And indeed, if you downsize an image with blurring below a certain threshold, the blurring is no longer detectable. The principle is the same.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 21, 2016)

scyrene said:


> geekpower said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



I think your statement highlighted above may be confusing, as it's not true and in fact contradicts your earlier framework. You could, for example, downsample a 5Ds image to 35 MP, and it could show shake and diffraction that you would not see in 'the same image' shot on a 5DIII. 

Of course, your overall premise (when viewed at the same output size, smaller pixels have no detriment) is correct.


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## scyrene (Apr 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > geekpower said:
> ...



Apologies. I've found wording these very tricky!

Can you explain a little more please? I want to be able to nail this in my head, so I'm not saying things that are incorrect. If you view two uncropped images at the same size (e.g. printed A4) from the same size sensor (e.g. full frame), equal amounts of shake would show the same, whatever the resolution of the two sensors, right? Are you saying downsizing e.g. 50MP to 35MP and printing, it would look different to the unresized 21MP image? :-\


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## Ozarker (Apr 22, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Extremely nice photo! May I ask what filters you used? Thanks!


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## Ozarker (Apr 22, 2016)

mskrystalmeth said:


> So this means at the same...either before or after Canon Announces their Mark Something...Nikon Will introduce D900 80mp. Cuz Sony is about to announce their A9 with 80mp.



Yes, and Nikon / Sony have just the lens lineup to handle all them pixels.


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## ashmadux (Apr 22, 2016)

This update cant come soon enough- the 6d has arguably the worst AF system of any modern camera on the market.

I have no issue with the sensor other than its a bit of a softie.

Cmon Canon, although i'd realistically be looking at a 5d4 anyways.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 22, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Thanks. I didn't use any filters, just modest tonal adjustments in LightRoom.


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## slclick (Apr 23, 2016)

Been thinking of my personal 6D2 wishlist and there's really not a lot I'd add just:

a few more cross af points
joystick
CF card slot


What I don't want:

new battery
more megapixels

What I wouldn't mind:

articulated screen (for macro)


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## ScottyP (Apr 23, 2016)

I don't need much faster frame rate. 
I don't want more MP's, or at least not significantly more, because I want it to still be great in low light at high ISO. 
I couldn't care less about 4K video, or anything to do with video. 
I am fine with a single SD slot. 


I want:
A much better AF system.
A sync speed of 1/200th or even 1/250th. 
Even better high ISO IQ.


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## dak723 (Apr 23, 2016)

scyrene said:


> geekpower said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



You may be right, of course. I am not a physicist. But I find it hard to believe that Canon would spend their money designing and implementing a system to reduce camera shake in their high MP cameras if it was not an issue. And I don't believe that the numerous photographers who are increasing shutter speed to compensate for the higher MPs in the 5DS/R are hallucinating. As far as pixel size and noise (and IQ), I tend to believe the conclusions of Roger Clark on his website.

http://www.clarkvision.com/articles//does.pixel.size.matter/#Conclusions

Just curious. I realize that the sizes of the sensor are different between FF and APS-C, but if they have the same number of MPs, would you get the same level of sharpness taking hand held shots (same lens, settings, etc.) with both cameras? Or it something beyond pixel size that would make the FF shots sharper?


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 23, 2016)

dak723 said:


> I realize that the sizes of the sensor are different between FF and APS-C, but if they have the same number of MPs, would you get the same level of sharpness taking hand held shots (same lens, settings, etc.) with both cameras? Or it something beyond pixel size that would make the FF shots sharper?



The FF image will appear sharper (assuming you're comparing same framing, etc.), because to compare them at the same size, you'll need to enlarge the APS-C image more. Check TDP's comparisons with the 200/2 L and crop vs. FF bodies.


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