# Upgrading 6D to 5D IV or 1DX II for better autofocus and fps. Suggestions?



## mikekx102 (Dec 22, 2016)

Hi,

I'm currently upgrading from my Canon 6D, but I'm not sure what to upgrade to. I'm an amateur that takes some portraits, landscapes and action shots. I'm finding that my 6D has enough resolution and the quality is great, except for auto-focus.

I want to be able to take photos of the dog running around the backyard and of my friends on a rope-swing with my 200mm f2L lens @ F2.0. As you can imagine that lens puts a lot of strain on the camera's auto-focus and my 6D isn't the best tool for the job (and the fps is pretty low).

- How much of an improvement over the 6D is the 5D Mark IV in regards to auto-focus, when compared to a 1DX Mark II? Like is a 5D Mark IV a 50% improvement over the 6D, and a 1DX II a 50% improvement over the 5D Mark IV, or: is a 5D Mark IV a 95% improvement over the 6D, and the 1DX II a 5% improvement over the 5D Mark IV?
(Sorry if that's confusing)

- How does the weather sealing compare?

- Any other thoughts? I'm also interested in 4K video with good auto-focus and so I'm a bit resistant to considering the 1DX original, though it probably is a good idea.

Thanks,

Mike.


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## tpatana (Dec 22, 2016)

Coming from 6D, I think either one will be great choice.

I have now 5D4 and 1DX (orig), used to have 5D3 too. I think 6D AF is one notch down from 5D3. And I (think I) noticed difference from 5D3 to 5D4. So probably you'll be happy with any of those.

If money is not tight, why not 1DX2? You'd get 4k60 and 1080p120.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 22, 2016)

Instead of the machine gun approach, use single shot. Learn to anticipate your moving targets, I think you will like the results with your 6D. If you do want to use the machine gun approach, remember, you are asking the camera to acquire focus, take the shot, save it, and focus for the next shot. This is why a 1 series is the best choice. The higher battery voltage drives the lens AF motor slightly faster as well as allowing for the complex timing.

Personally, I've used 1 series for fast moving subjects, but reverted to 1 shot because I did not want to deal with hundreds of photos. 

The one time I found it might be useful was photographing a guy using a whip to cut a object held in another persons hand. I wanted to capture the exact moment it cut the object in two. With the tip of the whip moving faster than the speed of sound, there was no way for me to do it using single shot, and, as I found out, no way to capture it with a 30D at max FPS without repeating the shot dozens of times (which I did). This was a occasion for really high FPS, but I was limited to what my 30D could do. It was a chore going thru a ton of images looking for one that came close to what I wanted. I used a high FPS a few times with my 1 series cameras, but now avoid it except for rare cases.

One fraction of a second, its there, the next frame, its already past.


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## AdamBotond (Dec 22, 2016)

Hi there Mike,
I have been in a similar situation. Used 6D for several years, switched to 1D IV as my wildlife interest grew deeper. Now I'm in a dilemma between 1DX (og) and 5D IV as I do miss the advantages of FF and can't justify the price of 1DX II.
Knowing that your interest is more all around and not stricly action, if I were you I would definitely go with the 5D IV featuring more MP, Wifi, almost as good AF as 1DX II, etc and spare lot of money that could be spent on lenses or whatever you want. The AF system of the 5D IV is a world ahead of 6D's, though not as good as 1DX II, but still in the same class. If you are considering to do a lot video, 1DX II would be a better choice as 5D IV will quickly become a pain in the S due to its codecs, but again can you justify the price differential? 

As for weather sealing, 5D IV clearly tops 6D, but not in as resistant as 1D series. Hope that helps.


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## reef58 (Jan 1, 2017)

I wish they would go ahead and introduce a 1d at 35mp and 10fps so I can spend some money.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 1, 2017)

reef58 said:


> I wish they would go ahead and introduce a 1d at 35mp and 10fps so I can spend some money.



Amen!


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## Maiaibing (Jan 1, 2017)

mikekx102 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I want to be able to take photos of the dog running around the backyard and of my friends on a rope-swing with my 200mm f2L lens @ F2.0. As you can imagine that lens puts a lot of strain on the camera's auto-focus and my 6D isn't the best tool for the job (and the fps is pretty low).
> 
> ...



On AF generally its easy to value the 5D-series: 5DII < 5DIII < 5DS/R < 5DIV AF. 

6D is a different story because the it depends a lot on: 1) which AF point you use and 2) the amount of light available.

If you compare to say the 5DIII the 6D has a huge advantage in its centre AF point is better than any of the 5DIII points, and can acquire focus at -3ev where the 5DIII gives up at -2ev. This difference is more significant than it sounds because those are the kind of light levels you hit during dawn/dusk. 

This is my impression from a lot of real life action shooting cycling, soccer, volleyball, riding etc.:

*In good light*
6D centre point will match 5DIV.
6D outer points will have around 15% less "A" and "A+" in-focus shots than the 5DIV.

*In low/tricky light*
6D centre point will almost match 5DIV.
6D outer points will have significantly less "A" and "A+" in-focus shots, and will not be able to focus reliably (or not acquire focus at all) as dusk/dawn sets in.

*In extremely low light*
6D centre point will almost match 5DIV. Both will have significant miss rates.
6D outer points - forget it.

So, a lot of the answer is about if you need the outer focus points. Having grown up with film (and a single manual "focus point") the centre point is by far the one I rely on the most. YMMV.

Generally, improved AF performance is an evolution not a revolution. Getting a little better all the time but still leaving us far from "picture perfect" AF. I often find the differences in real life use get exaggerated. 

Case in point; I want to take an on-coming cyclist (I do tens of thousands of these pictures each year). Here I need to take three frames with the 5DII/5DIII/5DSR/5DIV to be "sure" one of the frames will be a A+ in-focus shot. Three for the 5DII and still three for the 5DIV. It would be a huge advantage for me to be able to go down to 2 shots. The 5DIV is almost there. But I still cannot count on it. 

Hope this helps.


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## zim (Jan 1, 2017)

The question is really quite simple

Can you or can you not afford a 1Dx2 ?

You don't need advice from complete strangers to answer that.


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## Busted Knuckles (Jan 1, 2017)

A big part of AF speed if voltage to the lens. I think the 1D series have the 14 volt battery vs. the battery grip for the 5 series is in parallel vs. serial and that means the lens is getting the 7.4 volts.

So the original 1dx should (others w/ more specific knowledge can opine) focus a lot faster than the 5DIII or the 5DIV. The 1DxII should focus faster but the big step is from the 5 series to the 1 series body.

Best of luck


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## tpatana (Jan 2, 2017)

Busted Knuckles said:


> A big part of AF speed if voltage to the lens. I think the 1D series have the 14 volt battery vs. the battery grip for the 5 series is in parallel vs. serial and that means the lens is getting the 7.4 volts.
> 
> So the original 1dx should (others w/ more specific knowledge can opine) focus a lot faster than the 5DIII or the 5DIV. The 1DxII should focus faster but the big step is from the 5 series to the 1 series body.
> 
> Best of luck



I've often heard that claim but I've never seen good data to back it up. I have/had 5D3, 5D4 and 1DX(1), and I've never felt difference in af speed. AF accuracy yes. AF speed no.

But I don't have big whites, I wonder if those do faster AF on 1d bodies?

So do you have actual measurement data to show it actually happens with all lenses?


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## cpsico (Jan 2, 2017)

I have both he 6d and the 5d IV , the auto focus on the 5div is remarkable. Much better than my 1ds mark III. It takes a little bit of time to get used. Make use of the touch screen for menus, consider extra batteries, maybe a battery grip if you really want to shoot for extended periods. It's a wonderful camera. Video auto focus works perfectly as does live view.


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## tpatana (Jan 2, 2017)

cpsico said:


> I have both he 6d and the 5d IV , the auto focus on the 5div is remarkable. Much better than my 1ds mark III. It takes a little bit of time to get used. Make use of the touch screen for menus, consider extra batteries, maybe a battery grip if you really want to shoot for extended periods. It's a wonderful camera. Video auto focus works perfectly as does live view.



I've done some video testing in challenging light conditions, and it works fairly well. Biggest problem is that it occasionally jumps to track something completely different than what I intended. Occasionally have to keep pressing the screen for new focus point to make sure it tracks correct subject.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 2, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Instead of the machine gun approach, use single shot. Learn to anticipate your moving targets, I think you will like the results with your 6D. If you do want to use the machine gun approach, remember, you are asking the camera to acquire focus, take the shot, save it, and focus for the next shot. This is why a 1 series is the best choice. The higher battery voltage drives the lens AF motor slightly faster as well as allowing for the complex timing.
> 
> Personally, I've used 1 series for fast moving subjects, but reverted to 1 shot because I did not want to deal with hundreds of photos.
> 
> ...



Relative to fps I would only add that a lot of actions in nature/wildlife are totally unpredictable and 14 fps can pick up things you didn't even see (not that 7 can't but 4 1/2 did disappoint). Here is my example (AFMA still needs tuning), but I realize that some/many might say, who cares. That's an individual preference. If not for fps, I'd go 5D4. My path - 6D, 1D2 used, 1D4 used, 1DX2 and of course I'd have also preferred more MP's but alas ...
My costly solution was to move from the 300 2.8 II to the 400 DO II to get 800mm so my reach improved relative to previous 6D shooting.

Jack


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## sanj (Jan 2, 2017)

5d will fit the bill perfectly. No need for the 1d. Lighter package will work just as fine for you it seems. Buy a nice lens with the money saved.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 2, 2017)

sanj said:


> 5d will fit the bill perfectly. No need for the 1d. Lighter package will work just as fine for you it seems. Buy a nice lens with the money saved.



Based on the OP starting premise of use I'm inclined to agree. I would take the 5D4 over the 1DX unless there was something very compelling about the 1DX, perhaps a big white and the 12 fps for action but in this case that doesn't seem to fit. For many the versatility of the 5D4 with its 30 MPs is exactly what the doctor ordered. I can't understand all the negatives that we endured when it was announced.

Jack


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 3, 2017)

If moving from the 6D I would go with the 5D MKIV as your not a professional. The 5D MKIV is a more generalist camera with very goof AF and whilst the burst rate is a lot less than the 1DX MKII its a lot lighter, uses the same batteries as the 6D and has a similar form factor.


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