# Off Brand: Leica M Monochrom & Leica APO-Summicron 50 f/2 ASPH Announced



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 10, 2012)

```
<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/off-brand-leica-m-monochrom-leica-apo-summicron-50-f2-asph-announced/"></g:plusone></div><div id="fb_share_1" style="float: right; margin: 0 0px 0 10px;"><a name="fb_share" type="box_count" share_url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/off-brand-leica-m-monochrom-leica-apo-summicron-50-f2-asph-announced/" href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php">Share</a></div><div><script src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect.php/js/FB.Share" type="text/javascript"></script></div><div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 70px;"><a class="tm_button" rel="&style=normal&b=2" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/off-brand-leica-m-monochrom-leica-apo-summicron-50-f2-asph-announced/"></a></div>
<strong>Disclaimer


</strong>This is a non Canon post, if you don’t like reading about other camera brands, please skip this small article. Thanks!</p>
<p><strong>From the minds of Leica


</strong>No other camera manufacturer is more polarizing than Leica. So I had to post todays announcement, because it’s going to bring about a lot of debate, intrigue and questions about what they’re doing in Solms.</p>
<p>A lot of you will know I do shoot with a Leica M9, and enjoy the camera as well as the M lenses I own. However, I do have a hard time answering “yes” to the inevitable question I get from people… “Is it worth the money?” So when I see them announcing a new segment of 35mm digital camera for $8000, and still retaining things like the 5 year old technology 230,000 pixel LCD displays, I’m not sure what to tell people about getting into Leica.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>Why does this matter to the Canon user?


</strong>I have always said I think there’s a market for a full frame “mirrorless” camera, and the first one to do it for half the price of Leica, will have a big winner on their hands. Today Leica threw a curveball with a B&W sensored camera, as well as a staggering technical marvel with their new 50mm lens.</p>
<p><strong>Leica M Monochrom


</strong>Today in Berlin, the Leica M Monochrom was announced. It is an 18mp black & white only digital rangefinder.</p>
<p>“It has a sensor designed exclusively for black and white photography. It has no color filter,” said Leica Chairman Dr. Andreas Kauffman. “This allows twice the amount of light to reach the sensor. So we combined this special sensor with our rangefinder system and we present you the M Monochrome with the maximized image quality available with Leica lenses.”</p>
<p><strong>Main Specs

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>18MP CCD monochrome sensor (24 x 36mm)</li>
<li>No anti-aliasing filter</li>
<li>No color filter array</li>
<li>ISO 320-10,000 (with a ‘Pull 160*’ option)</li>
<li>2.5″ 230,000 dot rear LCD</li>
<li>Supplied with Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and Silver Efex Pro 2</li>
</ul>
<p><strong><a href="http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/" target="_blank">Leica M Monochrom</a></strong></p>
<p><strong>Leica APO-Summicron-M 50 f/2 ASPH Lens


</strong>A $7200 50 f/2 lens? That’s exactly what Leica announced today. I find it intriguing, because it’s going to set lens testers and lens geeks into a tizzy waiting to get their hands on one. There are some bold claims about the performance of this lens.</p>
<blockquote><p>This lens is a new milestone in the history of optical design that achieves previously unattainable values in all technical performance characteristics. For instance, there is practically no fall-off at the edges – even at full aperture – in the MTF curves for image sharpness. Even the finest details are rendered with more than 50% contrast – a previously unheard of value that confirms the exceptional properties of this lens.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong><a href="http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/8884.html" target="_blank">Leica APO-Summicron-M 50 mm f/2 ASPH</a></strong></p>
<p><strong>Conclusion


</strong>The camera is an intriguing step, but hard to stomach the $8000 price tag without having addressed some of the biggest issues with the M9, the LCD screen being one and lack of focus confirmation for the optically challenged. We’ll have to wait and see if it’s more responsive than the M9.</p>
<p>The lens may be the greatest thing ever created by man, I am looking forward to the comparisons between it and the Noctilux and Summilux variants. Can lenses be made much better than they already are?</p>
<p>Neither is scheduled to ship until August 2012.</p>
<p><strong>M10


</strong>That begs another question, if this camera isn’t out until August 2012, how can an M10 be coming a month later?</p>
<p>Now’s the time Canon, lets see the worlds first full frame autofocus mirrorless camera! Consider it preordered.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


----------



## Astro (May 10, 2012)

the BW image quality at dpreview looks unimpressiv.
and for that money? 

i guess only saudis princes and weapon dealer will find this camera interesting. 


the X2, well i have to take a closer look.


----------



## weekendshooter (May 10, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Has Leica posted the MTF graphs for this lens anywhere?



In the .pdf linked by "technical data" here: http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/8884.html

the MTF charts look amazing, even at f/2. For that price, they'd better be!


----------



## drs (May 10, 2012)

Finally, we can use color filters again like in the old days, without blocking the light up to 75% of Bayern pattern, and make the images blurry with an e.g., red filter. 

But $8K, certainly not my idea for such. Since we can't update the camera on the cheap with a new film emulsion, like in the old days, which was the fun of new developments. 

I'm not certain how many people will take one. (A 36MP camera has the same options to illuminate 18MP with out filters [we can argue about that of course, but well...] ... and cost nearly the same.)

I would love to have one of these, but I think my limit would be $2K for it. Just my two cents. Leica or not...


----------



## GND (May 11, 2012)

Return on investment. You pay $8k, the pictures you sell pay back multiple. By the way, a 200Mp (!!) Hasselblad costs $45k. Then there's Andy Warhol who does the job on a Polaroid. Philosophically, to push the limits of state-of-the-art you have to be a genius and the German scientists in Optics (and Chemistry) Rule. Leica is an icon (not Nikon). Let's figure these points for various conclusions.

As to Canon's move in mirrorless as compared to Leica I wouldn't bother, it's like comparing Beethoven and the disco version of the 5th. Myself, after the Leica 50/2 I wonder what Canon is up to with the 50/1.4II :


----------



## Chadowe (May 11, 2012)

Meh


----------



## Neeneko (May 11, 2012)

While it is nice to see a monochrome offering outside machine vision/astro/medium format, I kinda wish it wasn't Lecia doing it. While a few people are willing to pay the premium, Lucia digital rangefinders are incredibly over priced status symbols, and thus it has no utility for demonstrating the viability of such a body.. which is something the industry could really use since the 'common knowledge' is such cameras have no market, even though people keep asking for them.


----------



## lipe (May 11, 2012)

cost more than 1D X

my god, i like black and white but i better stick with canon

not enough money to burn


----------



## Neeneko (May 11, 2012)

Though I am kinda surprised they only managed twice the light.

I think when Maxmax tested their conversions they got about 2 stops out of it, and that was after accounting for the loss of the microlenses. So I would expect the Lecia senor with no CFA but intact microlenses should get more 1 stop of improvement.


----------



## c.d.embrey (May 11, 2012)

I'd like to see someone make a B&W DSLR, but Canon wouldn't do it 'cause they would be afraid that it would cannibalize their color DSLR market  

When and if, Leica builds a R10Digital maybe they will include a B&W model.


----------



## AdamJ (May 11, 2012)

If their new 50mm f2 is as good as they say, I'll be amazed that nobody has created such a good 50mm lens before. The double Gauss formula has been tinkered with for 100+ years and it has always had its flaws. Top build quality alone doesn't magically result in a near flawless lens so I'm intrigued to see what Leica has done differently.


----------



## SebastianK (May 11, 2012)

while the double Gauss has flaws, it delivers very good performance even in basic designs. And the design here is not a classic double Gauss. The back part is quite different. Also, it's only f2, not very fast for a 50 mm. That plus the liberal use of expensive glass types should do it.
my guess is Canon could produce the same for 2k. it's just a matter of market.


----------



## Longkou (May 11, 2012)

I have a feeling i will drool over this camera and lens and if i had one i would LOVE it to death. But, and there is always a but.

If Leica's digital cameras lasted as long as their film predecessors i would be happy to invest in this camera. But they don't and things move so fast in the digital era how can this cost be justified?


----------



## Woody (May 11, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> Now’s the time Canon, lets see the worlds first full frame autofocus mirrorless camera! Consider it preordered.



That's precisely my sentiments as well. A full frame mirrorless camera is gonna ROCK. Throw in a good 40 MP sensor with wide dynamic range at low ISO and landscape photographers will be all over it. Cheap (no expensive pentaprism), light weight, good image quality... what's not to like?


----------



## RuneL (May 11, 2012)

Longkou said:


> I have a feeling i will drool over this camera and lens and if i had one i would LOVE it to death. But, and there is always a but.
> 
> If Leica's digital cameras lasted as long as their film predecessors i would be happy to invest in this camera. But they don't and things move so fast in the digital era how can this cost be justified?



The price of this vs. the usefulness of it more or less means it's a toy more than it is a tool. I'd like one, probably, but I'd rather have an M6.


----------



## AprilForever (May 11, 2012)

Astro said:


> the BW image quality at dpreview looks unimpressiv.
> and for that money?
> 
> i guess only saudis princes and weapon dealer will find this camera interesting.
> ...



Indeed...


----------



## jouster (May 11, 2012)

"So when I see them announcing a new segment of 35mm digital camera for $8000, and still retaining things like the 5 year old technology 230,000 pixel LCD displays, I’m not sure what to tell people about getting into Leica."

Tell 'em "Don't - this is a bad joke."


----------



## Neeneko (May 11, 2012)

AdamJ said:


> If their new 50mm f2 is as good as they say, I'll be amazed that nobody has created such a good 50mm lens before. The double Gauss formula has been tinkered with for 100+ years and it has always had its flaws. Top build quality alone doesn't magically result in a near flawless lens so I'm intrigued to see what Leica has done differently.



Well, historically there have been a number of fantastic prototype lenses that never got off the ground due to issues related to manufacturing rather then 'can it be built', so it is plausible that they found a way to make them at a price point that works and maintains sufficient QC to be marketable.


----------



## Neeneko (May 11, 2012)

Woody said:


> That's precisely my sentiments as well. A full frame mirrorless camera is gonna ROCK. Throw in a good 40 MP sensor with wide dynamic range at low ISO and landscape photographers will be all over it. Cheap (no expensive pentaprism), light weight, good image quality... what's not to like?



You forget how image conscious the photography market is. Mirrorless cameras are 'small', professional looking gear is 'large'. Many people will avoid mirrorless because it looks too 'consumer', at least until the 'we actually make our living off this' professionals start switching. 

I still hear people complain about how ridiculous a large lens looks on a mirrorless (or even crop) body.. which is amusing since good astrophotography cameras are tiny boxes attached to massive lenses and no one calls them toys ^_^


----------



## AdamJ (May 11, 2012)

SebastianK said:


> while the double Gauss has flaws, it delivers very good performance even in basic designs. And the design here is not a classic double Gauss. The back part is quite different. Also, it's only f2, not very fast for a 50 mm. That plus the liberal use of expensive glass types should do it.
> my guess is Canon could produce the same for 2k. it's just a matter of market.



Not a classic double Gauss but presumably still a variation on the theme, as all 50s are. I agree a double Gauss delivers very good performance but look again at what Leica is claiming: "a historic milestone." My point is, in most lens categories, "historic milestones" come and go but a 50 has to brush aside rather more history to be conferred that kind of status. I have yet to encounter a 50 that outperforms my Zeiss Planar 50 f/1.7 and that's 30 years old (I bought it new). That's why I'm so intrigued to know what Leica has done.


----------



## bchernicoff (May 11, 2012)

My first thought about the lens was that they are simply creating a much larger than needed image circle so that the sensor utilizes the sharpest center part.


----------



## jweu (May 12, 2012)

SebastianK said:


> while the double Gauss has flaws, it delivers very good performance even in basic designs. And the design here is not a classic double Gauss. The back part is quite different. Also, it's only f2, not very fast for a 50 mm. That plus the liberal use of expensive glass types should do it.
> my guess is Canon could produce the same for 2k. it's just a matter of market.



If you look at MTF, you will find an extreme sharp lens at f/2. No canon 50mm lens is that sharp at f/2. Why should I buy a Canon lens with f/1.2, when the lens is not better at f/2 than the Leica one and realy smooth at f/1.2 ? The lens is expensive but outperfomes all other lenses. Zeiss Macro-Planar is the best at about 1.2K€ at 50mm f/2.

At times of more than 100 lines per mm at the sensor, Canon professional 50mm lenses are soft at 30 lines per mm wide open. Canon should show a lens with an mtf of 120 lines per mm if the lens ist ready for the actural sensor.


----------



## jweu (May 12, 2012)

Woody said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Now’s the time Canon, lets see the worlds first full frame autofocus mirrorless camera! Consider it preordered.
> ...



No mirror, no fast autofocus. If we have fast autofocus using the chip, the chip gets warm and the ISO-level decreases. I like my EOS with fast AF. A 50mm f/2 with an aspherical lens for comparable image quality (ready for 30MP at f/2) is a must now! I hope, canon is working on it, i waiting for.


----------



## jweu (May 12, 2012)

Neeneko said:


> AdamJ said:
> 
> 
> > If their new 50mm f2 is as good as they say, I'll be amazed that nobody has created such a good 50mm lens before. The double Gauss formula has been tinkered with for 100+ years and it has always had its flaws. Top build quality alone doesn't magically result in a near flawless lens so I'm intrigued to see what Leica has done differently.
> ...



Computing a 50mm with an asperical lens the calculation has much more parameters and i think you need new software with intelligent heuristics for optimization and more calculation power to get good results.


----------

