# Crop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 28, 2017)

```
We have been sent more information about the upcoming C-Log update to the EOS 5D Mark IV, while this comes from a new source, it’s pretty detailed.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV C-Log Update:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>All video output will still be 8-bit.</li>
<li>Sampling for DCI 4K will be increased to a 5632 x 2970 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.27x Crop factor.</li>
<li>Sampling for UHD will be from a 5472 x 3078 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.29x Crop factor.</li>
<li>Both modes are accurately down-sampled to their final resolutions.</li>
<li>Existing frame rates will remain the same.</li>
<li>The current 1:1 4K sampling mode will remain an option for situations benefiting from the 1.78x Crop factor.</li>
<li>There will also be new full-sensor 3K modes added including 60fps and HDR 24fps.Both will use a line-alternating sampling method, so quality will be inferior to the improved 4K format (but better than the existing FullHD 1080p format.) It is unclear whether the file resolution in the final firmware will be the full 3360 x 1890 format or down-sampled to 3072 x 1728.</li>
<li>FullHD 1080p will also use this 3K full-sensor mode with down-sampling for a noticeable improvement in perceived resolution.</li>
<li>FullHD 1080p will also receive a modest frame rate boost to 72/75fps.</li>
<li>The EOS 5D Mark IV will gain the XF-AVC file format at 120Mbps (4:2:0) and 200Mbps (4:2:2). Both formats should require low enough data rates to accommodate UHS-I U3 type SD Cards.</li>
<li>Reports relating to a possible service job for the 5D Mark IV are the result of the heat sinks on current units not performing well in some environments when used with the newer firmware. This is because of the increased processing load from the enlarged video sampling area. Newer units will ship with an improved heat sink while existing 5D Mark IV units can be retrofitted. Pricing is unconfirmed for that servicing.</li>
<li>The newer firmware will still work in non-serviced cameras, but this may result in premature temperature warnings.</li>
</ul>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Hellish (Mar 28, 2017)

THANK YOU CANON!



... for once


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## AE-1Burnham (Mar 28, 2017)

I thought this was "Respect Your Cat Day" but I guess it is "Respect Canon Day"! ...Is this unprecedented for Canon to release,-if it happens--such an update/upgrade to an existing model? Is it a "bug fix" or is it an addition of features? Cool (literally if heat-sink talk is true, haha) !


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## jayphotoworks (Mar 28, 2017)

Is this an April Fool's joke 4 days early? The 5DIV becomes an entirely different beast with these updates. While I've seen this type of update from companies like Fuji, Ricoh or Blackmagic, I've never seen this scope of update from Canon ever. This feature set directly encroaches on some of their own C series offerings.

If this is true, Canon must be listening to us video/stills hybrid folks and it comes way earlier than I would expect which would have been 3 years down the road in the 5DV.


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## Frage (Mar 28, 2017)

> Newer units will ship with an improved heat sink while existing 5D Mark IV units can be retrofitted. Pricing is unconfirmed for that servicing.



Wow, just wow...


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## Chaitanya (Mar 28, 2017)

New crop factor will make it useless to use 3rd party EF-S glass.


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## midluk (Mar 28, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> New crop factor will make it useless to use 3rd party EF-S glass.


Did you read the "The current 1:1 4K sampling mode will remain an option for situations benefiting from the 1.78x Crop factor." part?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 28, 2017)

For the record, there is some precedents to big feature firmware updates from Canon. The EOS 5D Mark II v1.1 and onward as well as the EOS 7D v2.0 come to mind.

In the end, it's just software.


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## IglooEater (Mar 28, 2017)

Oh my! 

Apparently someone from Canon has been reading the comments on CR. ;D


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## cpreston (Mar 28, 2017)

It sounds too good to be true. A gut check says it is false. Also, a couple of things just don't make sense.

"72/75 fps" is just odd, unless it is primarily intended for PAL.
5D currently does not have UHD, so what made Canon decide to add it.
S35 mode on the 1DC is the only Canon DSLR video mode that has used downsampling to the best of my knowledge.
3K? 
"XF-AFC"?
SD-Cards for video on the 5D?


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## ahsanford (Mar 28, 2017)

So you're saying I was on to something here...

#nostradamus

- A


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## kingrobertii (Mar 28, 2017)

This would be a great update! Only hoping to not have to ship my camera back AND pay. Otherwise, I can't wait!


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## JJJandak (Mar 28, 2017)

It is like dream, but better.. I already mourned 4K on my MkIV and continue shoot just 1080p. If someone just make all this up, I hope he step on lego.


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## ahsanford (Mar 28, 2017)

Okay, so is this list is accurate, it would imply that Canon is making a rather dramatic course correction here: lots of new functionality and they have changed the design of a flagship level product early in its cycle. Further, critically, they are servicing cameras to retrofit them -- even though that happens with odd launch issues (light leak --> internal tape retrofit), this certainly appears to me to be a more significant change.

I could be wrong, but this reads much more like 'People were p---ed about the 5D4 video specs/performance enough to pursue a fairly involved / major change' than it does 'Hey, we figured out a slick way to get you C Log without melting your rig, so here you go, kids!'

_...or were they just bumping up the 5D4 because their latest financial analysis said that a 24 MP x 6 fps x 45 AF tilty flippy 6D2 would cannibalize the 5D4 a lot more without a clear bump in video specs. _ : I say that half in jest. As much as I riff on 6D2 cannibalization of 5D4, I still think this announcement is more about appeasing the 5D faithful than paving the way for clearer 5D4 / 6D2 feature/price/prestige segmentation.

- A


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## CanonGuy (Mar 28, 2017)

I'm taking 5d4 sales wasn't impressive? LOL! I was truely astonished when canon released the 'impressive' 5d4 after 4+ years waiting period. 

PS: Now waiting for a fanboy to comment that the 5d4 sales was high but Canon is doing this because they care about the consumers ;D


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## davidhfe (Mar 28, 2017)

I've been on the fence since release—mostly waiting to see how the 6D2 shakes out—but if true this would push me over. Hard to read that list and not get excited.


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## bsbeamer (Mar 28, 2017)

Wow, this is a HUGE step in the right direction. Any idea on cost range for this service? Even for those non-video folks, I can't imagine the resale value of the camera holding up as well unless the service is performed.


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## tbrand (Mar 28, 2017)

This is great news but as a 1DX Mark II owner I'm wondering if this will soon come my way too. I'm going to be pretty up in arms if a camera that cost twice as much is passed up. I've been dreaming of C-Log for too long...


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## JJJandak (Mar 28, 2017)

I think Canon finnaly get the memo.
- Marques Brownlee (best tech reviewer) "Preety much everyone making sort of customer 4K camera ... except Canon." https://youtu.be/f0NdOE5GTgo
- Casey Neystat (probably most famous vlogger) - recently switchet to Sony https://youtu.be/GTjy9VlsNaY
Just if it's true.. I hope they wake up and continue even with other products.


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## canonic (Mar 28, 2017)

*If we all were Canon fanboys, we would not had ...*

this update ever!
So criticism Canon is a useful thing and you fanboys, may say now "Thank You!" 8)

A new Codec (XF-AVC and not XF-AFC i presume - pls. correct that admin) and a way better crop mode ... hmm, now suddenly, the Canon 5D4 is appealing to me. But i still miss the flip screen, will be a Firmware for that, too?! :

Now, i am pretty sure that 6D2 will have 4k and this is good!


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## tr573 (Mar 28, 2017)

cpreston said:


> "XF-AFC"?



Probably supposed to be xf-avc, which is a Canon codec


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## dadohead (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Hmmm... so if I don't pay for the upgrade (because, you know, budget), I essentially have a faulty camera with lowered resale value? Or put another way, I pay a premium for being an early adopter? I _already_ do that. Extorting this upgrade from me would make me angry. I think Canon would be wise to do this for cost of shipping.


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## canonic (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



dadohead said:


> Hmmm... so if I don't pay for the upgrade (because, you know, budget), I essentially have a faulty camera with lowered resale value? Or put another way, I pay a premium for being an early adopter? I _already_ do that. Extorting this upgrade from me would make me angry. I think Canon would be wise to do this for cost of shipping.



I am pretty sure if you still have the guarantee, you wont have to pay for that.
If not ... maybe the upgrade is so easy to make, that you can do it by yourself ... in the kitchen 8)


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## Deadeyejohnny (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

This is actually all pretty huge news and I hope the firmware drops asap but simultaneously disappointed I'm gonna have to send it out for a hardware upgrade, that's poor planning on their part. Not to mention that in Canada, shipping anything back to Canon Canada (in my experience) means you're left hanging for 3 weeks or more without your gear.


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## testthewest (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



dadohead said:


> Hmmm... so if I don't pay for the upgrade (because, you know, budget), I essentially have a faulty camera with lowered resale value? Or put another way, I pay a premium for being an early adopter? I _already_ do that. Extorting this upgrade from me would make me angry. I think Canon would be wise to do this for cost of shipping.



Perhaps they wanted to punish the early adopters, so they learn to chill the f* out and wait like the rest of us? Let's be honest: The stress levels in those Canon stores at release of a new model is just unbearable these days. Everybody relax with their wallet and spread out their purchase like responsible adults here!
8)


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## jolyonralph (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Amazing new features being added to the 5DIV, and as always some people are not happy.

Yes. If you bought a camera before and have to pay to have it upgraded then you might be unhappy with this. But remember, you bought a camera based on the features it had advertised, and not these new features. If you want these new features then it's only fair you pay to get them. 

Clearly if there's a hardware modification needed to the camera then it's going to cost Canon a ton of money if they had to do these for free. Remember, this is not a product recall because of a fault. This is Canon giving valuable new features to your new camera for a modest cost.

What would the alternative be? Waiting for the 5D Mark V?

So, if you want the new features and you want your heat sink upgraded to cope with them better, be prepared to pay for it. It's worth it.


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## tr573 (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



jolyonralph said:


> But remember, you bought a camera based on the features it had advertised, and not these new features.



+1


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## infared (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

So...I do not give a hoot about any of those features ( ??? whatever they are?), as I am a stills photographer recently contemplating purchasing a 5DIV, to complement my 5D III ...So does this mean that new cameras coming out of the pipe will have these modifications installed?...and does that also mean that I could pick up a new unmodified camera body out on the shelf of a retailer at a nicely discounted price because, suddenly they will be "less desirable" to everyone but me, apparently?!?! 
BTW I will believe all this when it actually happens...since it sounds too much like a golden goose the way you guys are all raving.


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## Lyle Krannichfeld (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

If it enabled 4K 60p I'd pick one up, but I'm guessing I'll have to grab the gh5 and a couple lenses. Never thought I'd be a two system guy but the 1dx2 is just out of reach for now. Nice update for a lot of folks though if true


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## magarity (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



infared said:


> So...I do not give a hoot about any of those features ( ??? whatever they are?), as I am a stills photographer ...


I was just thinking about posting a "so what" comment because so many people do that in topics I am interested in but you've beat me to it. Actually, I just like reading about any new stuff whether I want it or not, so go for it, people who want it.


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## magarity (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



dadohead said:


> Hmmm... so if I don't pay for the upgrade (because, you know, budget)


There will probably be a reasonably long window if you need to save up for the operation; it's not like a banana republic currency devaluation where all your 100's bills need to be traded in by Monday.


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## IglooEater (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

I do care about these features even if I don't do any video, and don't intend to buy this camera. (Price, not features)
For two reasons:
1. The only other DSLR with a similar feature set was $12,000 at release. That means tech is fast falling in price, and trickling down to lower end models.

2. The more people canon dslr's can cater to, the more people will buy them. The more people buy it, the more ROI on the R&D for that unit. Eventually lower price for everyone. 

Looks good for the 7D III and 90D, as well as the 6D II


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## foo (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



jolyonralph said:


> But remember, you bought a camera based on the features it had advertised, and not these new features. If you want these new features then it's only fair you pay to get them.



this only works if new cameras with the features already incorporated get a price hike equivalent to the cost of the upgrade - after all if new buyers want these new features then it's only fair that they pay for them as well..

whatever happens, you can be sure that someone will be unhappy with the outcome. probably whoever doesn't get the new features for free...

Anyway, I think I'll wait for the official announcement and make my mind up then. I'd be interested to know if this ends up being a video-only firmware update, or if there's other things in there as well.


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## TedBedlam (Mar 28, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the record, there is some precedents to big feature firmware updates from Canon. The EOS 5D Mark II v1.1 and onward as well as the EOS 7D v2.0 come to mind.
> 
> In the end, it's just software.



So would it be fair to hope 10 bit video is within reach in future updates? This would give me the opportunity as a 30/70 video/photo guy to finally leave Panasonic behind along with our love hate relationship. Even if it was just on the 3k mode, that would give huge latitude for reframing and LUTs while giving me a chance to second shoot with Canon primaries at weddings.

Sorry if this is basic shit one should know not to ask as I am pretty dumb in these matters compared to many other commenters here it appears.


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## Cthulhu (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



dadohead said:


> Hmmm... so if I don't pay for the upgrade (because, you know, budget), I essentially have a faulty camera with lowered resale value? Or put another way, I pay a premium for being an early adopter? I _already_ do that. Extorting this upgrade from me would make me angry. I think Canon would be wise to do this for cost of shipping.



I'm pretty sure if you don't opt for the upgrade you'll still have the same exact camera you bought


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## ahsanford (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Ok, so the firmware is free, but the heat sink change is an opt-in / probably fee-based servicing -- did I get that right?

If so, between the fee (or bother of shipping) potentially being too burdensome or from some folks not hearing/caring about this change (non-4k folks, stills-only folks, etc.), we would then have some nontrivial percentage of units to date without the necessary heat sinks on board.

So what is one to do with two different hardware variants in the field? _If the firmware rev is the same, how does one looking for a bargain 5D4 on the resale market know if the hardware change was performed?_ I'm guessing a BIOS (or whatever a camera has, please forgive my ignorance) wouldn't report out hardware to the heat sink level. So how would you know? Run some demanding video settings and checking the temperature?  

- A


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## mclaren777 (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

*"There will also be a new full-sensor 3K mode @ 60fps."*

Boom! That's all I wanted!


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## bsbeamer (Mar 28, 2017)

TedBedlam said:


> So would it be fair to hope 10 bit video is within reach in future updates?



Highly unlikely to see 10-bit 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 UHD/4K at 24/30/60fps in a 5D4 from Canon anytime soon. That's likely going to be held for the "C" line (C300+) releases.

Possible to see 10-bit 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 1080HD at 24/30/60fps due to the way conversions can be made from 8-bit 4:2:0 4K. (Read about the GH4 UHD conversions.) 

Worth noting that unless you have a specific reason for needing 10-bit 1080HD, you will not notice a huge difference except in files sizes or time wasted doing conversions. You WILL see a difference in image quality whenever oversampling and properly scaling down (usually improves image quality and perceived resolution).


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## MayaTlab (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



ahsanford said:


> So what is one to do with two different hardware variants in the field? _If the firmware rev is the same, how does one looking for a bargain 5D4 on the resale market know if the hardware change was performed?_ I'm guessing a BIOS (or whatever a camera has, please forgive my ignorance) wouldn't report out hardware to the heat sink level. So how would you know? Run some demanding video settings and checking the temperature?
> 
> - A



Maybe Canon will release a way (online database + public announcement ?) to identify the hardware based on the serial number, and a) update the database when the revision has been done and b) "mark" the updated cameras in some ways (just like Nikon did with the fixed D750 and D810) ?
At least that's what they should do, otherwise it will be a mess.


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## infared (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



magarity said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > So...I do not give a hoot about any of those features ( ??? whatever they are?), as I am a stills photographer ...
> ...


Not begrudging anyone....just voicing that there are possible other hopeful-money-saving viewpoints on this situation!
8)


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## Fatalv (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



ahsanford said:


> Ok, so the firmware is free, but the heat sink change is an opt-in / probably fee-based servicing -- did I get that right?
> 
> If so, between the fee (or bother of shipping) potentially being too burdensome or from some folks not hearing/caring about this change (non-4k folks, stills-only folks, etc.), we would then have some nontrivial percentage of units to date without the necessary heat sinks on board.
> 
> ...



To take it a step further, how about existing new stock at major retailers. How do you order a new 5DMK4 and be sure you are getting one that doesn't need immediately shipped and serviced by Canon? 

My guess is there must be a new SKU (5DMK4 revision A vs revision B?). Although the plus side is if you don't care about video the older SKUs may drop in price.

Interested to see how this plays out, if it's even true...


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## bsbeamer (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



ahsanford said:


> Ok, so the firmware is free, but the heat sink change is an opt-in / probably fee-based servicing -- did I get that right?
> 
> If so, between the fee (or bother of shipping) potentially being too burdensome or from some folks not hearing/caring about this change (non-4k folks, stills-only folks, etc.), we would then have some nontrivial percentage of units to date without the necessary heat sinks on board.
> 
> ...



Correct - rumor has it firmware free, service is charge. What the charge is still TBD.

I would ASSUME it will be marked in some fashion, similar to how Canon marks their refurbished products. It may also enable a menu setting that would be greyed out in other non-upgraded versions. Or they could go with two firmware tracks for upgraded and non-upgraded versions. Will be interesting to see how they handle and what the official procedures are. Panasonic and Sony charge a small fee for these types of things with video features, but they do not typically require service (firmware only).


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## infared (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



Fatalv said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so the firmware is free, but the heat sink change is an opt-in / probably fee-based servicing -- did I get that right?
> ...



At this point ....I think we need to remember that this is a rumor from an unknown, new source. :-X


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## Policar (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Lol.

Not a word of this is accurate. This is like the pizza gate of canon rumors (occam's duct tape in action).


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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Okay, so is this list is accurate, it would imply that Canon is making a rather dramatic course correction here: lots of new functionality and they have changed the design of a flagship level product early in its cycle. Further, critically, they are servicing cameras to retrofit them -- even though that happens with odd launch issues (light leak --> internal tape retrofit), this certainly appears to me to be a more significant change.
> 
> I could be wrong, but this reads much more like 'People were p---ed about the 5D4 video specs/performance enough to pursue a fairly involved / major change' than it does 'Hey, we figured out a slick way to get you C Log without melting your rig, so here you go, kids!'
> 
> ...



So if true: it's also a huge score for the 4K crowd- all of our complaining worked and paid off. For all the naysayers who called the 4K crowd "whiners" and told them to shut up because Canon is profitable and knows what they're doing- this is a little proof that Canon does read the forum boards, that the little 4K crusade worked, and that Canon ultimately decided they agree with us. Even if it's only to protect the 5DIV from being cannibalized by the 6DII, it proves they listened and agreed on what video features were lacking. For those of us who haven't jumped on board with the new 5D, it's added incentive and sales will only increase because of it. Like it or not, these days, video matters.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Maybe the rumour has been leaked by Canon to see how many people would whine about it online, and if there are too many moaners they can simply cancel the whole thing. 



foo said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > But remember, you bought a camera based on the features it had advertised, and not these new features. If you want these new features then it's only fair you pay to get them.
> ...



Why would it be fair that new buyers pay more? You paid for a camera with the features as advertised. If Canon release an updated model tomorrow your camera is still the camera you paid for. A new buyer is fortunate in being able to get a better camera for the same money - but isn't that the whole point - so Canon can sell more of them? 

Anyway these kinds of things happen all the time, the people who bought the 7D the day before the 7DII was announced, the people who buy a camera and then 3 months later there's a big price reduction. 

Canon could have quite easily released a new model - a Canon 5D Mark IVC - with the new video features enabled - and not made this available to existing owners at all. 

Stop complaining and count yourselves lucky - very lucky.


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## IglooEater (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



ahsanford said:


> Ok, so the firmware is free, but the heat sink change is an opt-in / probably fee-based servicing -- did I get that right?
> 
> If so, between the fee (or bother of shipping) potentially being too burdensome or from some folks not hearing/caring about this change (non-4k folks, stills-only folks, etc.), we would then have some nontrivial percentage of units to date without the necessary heat sinks on board.
> 
> ...



This is a real wild guess. Considering the heat sink would be to prevent the camera from overheating with the new video features, ( obviously) if I were canon here's what I'D do:
Release all the video upgrades as a normal firmware update, but program the hotter features to require the presence of a heat sink-certifying chip which canon would instal alongside the heat sink itself. 'hotter' features would be 'frozen' 

That doesn't prevent eBay scammers from selling it as "heat sinked" when it's not, but at least the camera would be safe. I suppose Canon could brand the cameras it modifies or something, but anything like that can be forged.


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## Bennymiata (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Now I'm happy that I held off buying a 5d4.
Now I'll wait until the revised versions go on sale at my favourite retailer.

In the mean time, I'll keep using my 70d and m5 for video.


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## IglooEater (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



jolyonralph said:


> Why would it be fair that new buyers pay more? You paid for a camera with the features as advertised. If Canon release an updated model tomorrow your camera is still the camera you paid for. A new buyer is fortunate in being able to get a better camera for the same money - but isn't that the whole point - so Canon can sell more of them?
> 
> Anyway these kinds of things happen all the time, the people who bought the 7D the day before the 7DII was announced, the people who buy a camera and then 3 months later there's a big price reduction.
> 
> ...



+1

I wrote a post saying the same thing but didn't post it as I figured it might not sit well with a lot in the crowd.


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## Flyingskiguy (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

And what of the 1DX Mark II? I am really hoping it sees a similar firmware update. With two of the same processor found in the 5D Mark IV, is it reasonable to postulate that it could handle the same tasks without the need for additional cooling capacity?


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## mikekx102 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



Flyingskiguy said:


> And what of the 1DX Mark II? I am really hoping it sees a similar firmware update. With two of the same processor found in the 5D Mark IV, is it reasonable to postulate that it could handle the same tasks without the need for additional cooling capacity?



I would hope for this update on my 1dx mark ii as well.


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## RunAndGun (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Sounds like BS. Take it with a grain of salt.


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## wallstreetoneil (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

If this is true, which I sort of doubt, it will mark a defining mega change at Canon, revealing that they finally get that cellphones are destroying the camera market, and that they actually have to offer, real unique products, that don't compete with cellphones.

I own a 1DXii, 5DSR and A7Rii. If this is true, I will trade in the 5DSR and A7Rii tomorrow for a 5D4.

This is either a watershed event for Canon, or, if it is only a C-log addition, proof that Canon, like Nikon, will not be long for this world.

This would make the 5D4 a true successor to the 5D2, and with an equal 'update' to the 1Dxii, kill Nikon; thus, I find it hard to believe it is true.


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## tmroper (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Now we're getting somewhere with this camera. I, like I'm sure a lot of other DSLR shooters, mostly do stills, but I like and want to do video when the opportunity arises. I've been using a cheap Lumix G7 to check out 4K, and now I really like it and don't want to go back. But I also prefer close to a FF sensor, with lenses that I'm familiar with, mostly so my brain doesn't have to keep switching DOF modes. But also because I can't afford new, wider lenses just for video. So if this rumor is true, I'm actually excited about the 5D MKIV again (like I was before it was announced).


----------



## Talley (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

I received my 5D4 the day after the release. I love this camera inside and out.

Now I will love it more and it will secure a longer stay in my bag. This camera will seriously be a 10 year camera. Looking forward to the future years of my photography.


----------



## YuengLinger (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Canon is doing a GREAT job of training us never to buy in the first year of production. Never. 

Complimentary retrofitting would definitely ease the aggravation.


----------



## Ripley (Mar 29, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the record, there is some precedents to big feature firmware updates from Canon. The EOS 5D Mark II v1.1 and onward as well as the EOS 7D v2.0 come to mind.
> 
> In the end, it's just software.



So Canon is releasing software that overheats its camera? And the fix is a hardware retrofit? I think it's fair to say that the camera wasn't originally designed for these new features but Canon is motivated to now provide them... in an unprecedented manner.


----------



## Policar (Mar 29, 2017)

Ripley said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > For the record, there is some precedents to big feature firmware updates from Canon. The EOS 5D Mark II v1.1 and onward as well as the EOS 7D v2.0 come to mind.
> ...



None of the claims made in the rumor are true. It is entirely made up. None of it is real except the CLOG thing posted earlier probably is.

The only thing unprecedented is a rumor this inane being posted on a site that usually vets its sources.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

might actually become useful for video, Sony stuff has just produced so much nicer quality I personally couldn't even be bothered with the 5D4, now if they could just make a version without the special video autofocus but a full extra stop more DR at ISO100.... (even as is, it at least becomes something to look at now, the DR for stills is still disappointing, much improved and yet not quite enough to really single frame all the real world tricky scenes quite as much as one might like even after all of this time, but it's least it's semi-there and with the great lenses and perhaps now actually decent video (although still not sure why they can't give critical basics like live zoomed focusing box or zebras, absurd) but at least it becomes a relevant camera again perhaps at least for those who want a one body semi-does it all and Canon lenses; I had totally written off Canon, but might give them a peek again, see how this turns out, i'd purchased tons of Canon stuff for years but it's been a few years now since I have purchased a single thing from Canon and have even sold some stuff off, only brand I had ever shot for a long, long time)

if true they might finally become relevant again
but nearing April 1st though....


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

although 10bit option would sure be useful, the RAW video on 5D3 that is more like 11-12 bit is a HUGE step up from 8bit, 10bits really is a huge deal compared to 8bits

gotta figure a Sony will be out with 10bit internal soon what with the GH5 now arriving with it

so I don't know, of course the GH5 has stills compromises, but I might still stick with old 5D2 plus the newest Sony for non-action stuff and video and end up with better quality than 5D4 for both stills and video, although there are some downsides like two bodies when at times you just rather have one do it all and while EVF in many ways can work better it also takes you more out of the feel of nature and can be a touch of a drag at times


----------



## CanonGrunt (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Anyone else think that a 5D C might be on the horizon? NAB maybe? This seems more plausible I think. Filmmakers perform the 5D form factor over the 1DC, so I thing the C will get passed down the line. If not this year, than next...


----------



## vjlex (Mar 29, 2017)

Policar said:


> None of the claims made in the rumor are true. It is entirely made up. None of it is real except the CLOG thing posted earlier probably is.
> 
> The only thing unprecedented is a rumor this inane being posted on a site that usually vets its sources.



I can't be so dogmatic in my assertion, but I'm inclined to agree. This sounds more like a well-crafted wishlist than an actual leak. I hope it's true; would be great if it is. But it's not one of the rumors I feel compelled to put stock in. April can't get here soon enough!


----------



## Jopa (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

1dx2? I still have some hope... don't care about the codec, but C-log shouldn't be hard to add I guess?


----------



## Cthulhu (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> might actually become useful for video, Sony stuff has just produced so much nicer quality I personally couldn't even be bothered with the 5D4, now if they could just make a version without the special video autofocus but a full extra stop more DR at ISO100.... (even as is, it at least becomes something to look at now, the DR for stills is still disappointing, much improved and yet not quite enough to really single frame all the real world tricky scenes quite as much as one might like even after all of this time, but it's least it's semi-there and with the great lenses and perhaps now actually decent video (although still not sure why they can't give critical basics like live zoomed focusing box or zebras, absurd) but at least it becomes a relevant camera again perhaps at least for those who want a one body semi-does it all and Canon lenses; I had totally written off Canon, but might give them a peek again, see how this turns out, i'd purchased tons of Canon stuff for years but it's been a few years now since I have purchased a single thing from Canon and have even sold some stuff off, only brand I had ever shot for a long, long time)
> 
> if true they might finally become relevant again
> but nearing April 1st though....



So much hatred in your little black heart.


----------



## noms78 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Are these numbers correct?

1) Sampling for DCI 4K will be increased to a 5632 x 2970 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.27x Crop factor.
2) Sampling for UHD will be from a 5472 x 3078 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.29x Crop factor.
3) The current 1:1 4K sampling mode will remain an option for situations benefiting from the 1.78x Crop factor.

Check:
1) sqrt(5632^2 + 2970^2) / 4630 (diagonal pixels of DCI 4k) = ~1.38 (not 1.27)?
2) sqrt(5472^2 + 3078^2) / 4406 (diagonal pixels of UHD 4k) = ~1.42 (not 1.29)?
3) sqrt(6720 ^2 + 4480^2) / 4630 (diagonal pixels of DCI 4k) = ~1.74 (not 1.78)


----------



## pokerz (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

I thought overheat issues relate to Mirrorless only, in fact 5d4 overheats with new codec :-\


----------



## hne (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



noms78 said:


> Are these numbers correct?
> 
> 1) Sampling for DCI 4K will be increased to a 5632 x 2970 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.27x Crop factor.
> 2) Sampling for UHD will be from a 5472 x 3078 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.29x Crop factor.
> ...



You're confusing oversampling and crop factor.
Crop for DCI would be sqrt(6720 ^2 + 4480^2) / sqrt(5632^2 + 2970^2) = 1.268, so as least the calculations are spot on. Doing a down scaling is surprisingly costly in video coding, which is my main source of doubt in this. It adds about 3GB/s memory bandwidth usage for 8bit 4:2:2 [email protected] If Canon had that bandwidth to spare, they'd figured out a way of cooling chips properly from the outset.


----------



## Sharlin (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



pokerz said:


> I thought overheat issues relate to Mirrorless only, in fact 5d4 overheats with new codec :-\



It was basically clear (and Canon has all but admitted it in interviews) that the less-than-optimal 4K implementation in the 5D4 was primarily due to issues with thermal budget. Yes, you can fit a larger heatsink into a DSLR than a tiny mirrorless but the fact remains that it's pretty difficult to transfer heat away efficiently enough when you can't have venting or cooling fins on the body, never mind active cooling.


----------



## Maiaibing (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



Talley said:


> I received my 5D4 the day after the release. I love this camera inside and out.
> 
> Now I will love it more and it will secure a longer stay in my bag. This camera will seriously be a 10 year camera. Looking forward to the future years of my photography.



Ahhh. One of the handful of 5D upgraders jumping directly to 5DIV...


----------



## -pekr- (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

We are about to get 6D II. Any gues, what the above might mean for it? First - if it is just around the horizon, the firmware might be already done (does not mean it could not be upgraded later though), whereas second - they need to differentiate it from the 5D IV, to protect it.


----------



## jolyonralph (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Something has been bugging me about this announcement - why would a bigger heatsink help reduce heat *inside a weather-sealed camera*? Isn't the magnesium alloy case the only real way that heat can be dissipated out of the camera?

Now I'm the first to admit I don't 100% know how the internals of the camera work, but looking at the teardown at https://petapixel.com/2016/09/09/teardown-take-peek-inside-canon-5d-mark-iv/ there doesn't seem to be a specific heatsink that can be replaced. I see a lot of RF shielding and metalwork connecting the camera together, but it does look like the case is the primary heatsink, as you'd imagine from a weathersealed camera.


----------



## midluk (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



Sharlin said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > I thought overheat issues relate to Mirrorless only, in fact 5d4 overheats with new codec :-\
> ...


The modification might change the plate around the tripod screw to copper and they announce a "cooler" vertical grip (takes only one battery and is optimized for heat dissipation).
Or this whole rumor is just fantasy, which I think is more likely.


----------



## JohanCruyff (Mar 29, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> While I've seen this type of update from companies like Fuji, Ricoh or Blackmagic,


+1: Fuji keeps updating cameras built in the 90's!  



jayphotoworks said:


> I've never seen this scope of update from Canon ever.


...except for a "major" 7D update a few years ago.



Who knows, maybe in 2019 my 6D will get the central focus point working @ F/8.


----------



## naylor83 (Mar 29, 2017)

shunsai said:


> Policar said:
> 
> 
> > None of the claims made in the rumor are true. It is entirely made up. None of it is real except the CLOG thing posted earlier probably is.
> ...



If this is a hoax, it is a very well-made one. It has all the marks of being the real deal: It makes sense in relation to previous information (i.e. sending in cameras to Canon), and most importantly it is very detailed. People who send in their wish lists to CR don't tend to go into this level of detail. And they always seem to include some really crazy wishes which give them away. Things which could have been included in a firmware upgrade but are not on this list: focus peaking, manual focus zoom box, software video stabilisation. These are common wishes and the fact that they are not on the list make it believable in my view.

Policar, you claim that "none of this is true" while stating that only the C-log thing is true, "probably". Why should we believe your first claim when you obviously don't know at all?


----------



## M_S (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Sounds....good. Somehow. But for me not quite.
Still no 120fps in HD. 
When you fix the hardware of the camera, start putting in HDMI 1.4 , so that the 4K can get off the camera to an external storage device. Otherwise this is still useless.
Offer options to get modern CFAST cards in there, double slots. Like they did with the Nikon D5. Choos your option, make it a payable upgrade and see where this goes.


----------



## jakdaniel1975 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Canon PLEASEEEEEEE 120 fps on fullHD!!!


----------



## Sharlin (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



jolyonralph said:


> Something has been bugging me about this announcement - why would a bigger heatsink help reduce heat *inside a weather-sealed camera*? Isn't the magnesium alloy case the only real way that heat can be dissipated out of the camera?



The shell of the body is the ultimate heatsink, yes. But its effectiveness depends critically on how well heat is transferred from the parts that generate it to the body, with solid pieces of metal or eg. heat pipes. I'm sure that part can be improved.


----------



## naylor83 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



Sharlin said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > Something has been bugging me about this announcement - why would a bigger heatsink help reduce heat *inside a weather-sealed camera*? Isn't the magnesium alloy case the only real way that heat can be dissipated out of the camera?
> ...



This new 5D mIV will be one hot camera!


----------



## hachu21 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



Sharlin said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > Something has been bugging me about this announcement - why would a bigger heatsink help reduce heat *inside a weather-sealed camera*? Isn't the magnesium alloy case the only real way that heat can be dissipated out of the camera?
> ...


That's the suspicious part. As a laptop disassembler geek, I know the part that can be involved in thermal management. And when I closely look at the Lensrental teardown pictures I see NONE inside the MarkIV!
Maybe it's related to the sensor cooling that we can't see there... but if I'm not wrong, during video, it's the image processing chips that release lot of heat, not the sensor.


----------



## infared (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

The more I think about it...this rumor is just that. The Canon company that I am familiar with will not be making these kind of changes to an existing product. Just my opinion...so we shall see what happens...
I am considering purchasing a 5D IV for still photography and this rumor is just a "never mind" to me anyway...although, if true...it would affect resale value.


----------



## tr573 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



pokerz said:


> I thought overheat issues relate to Mirrorless only, in fact 5d4 overheats with new codec :-\



In a lab, where they are testing, to see whether it does or not. (Assuming this rumor is even resembling the truth) That's the point is that Canon won't just shove something on the market that doesn't work.


----------



## arbitrage (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Some new source sure but together a nice wish list of things most people dream of for the 5D4 to have for video.

Chances of this coming true are very low.


----------



## weixing (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

Hi,
Hmm... May be Canon will announce the above updates on 1st April, then on 2nd April, Canon will announce that the announcement on 1st April is not a joke... that'll be fun... ha ha ha... ;D ;D

Just hope the rumor updates is true... 

Have a nice day.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 29, 2017)

AE-1Burnham said:


> I thought this was "Respect Your Cat Day" but I guess it is "Respect Canon Day"! ...Is this unprecedented for Canon to release,-if it happens--such an update/upgrade to an existing model? Is it a "bug fix" or is it an addition of features? Cool (literally if heat-sink talk is true, haha) !



No, they made major upgrades to video in the 5D MK II due to requests from major media producers who buy tons of cameras. I'd expect this was something similar.

I'm not into video, so its nothing to me, but I can see that it will be a nice improvement for those who do media production where big bucks are at stake. For wedding video photography, I doubt if the customer would ever know or care. They might watch the DVD's once, and put them away until their 50th Anniversary, and then find out that they could no longer be played.


----------



## scyrene (Mar 29, 2017)

JJJandak said:


> I think Canon finnaly get the memo.
> - Marques Brownlee (best tech reviewer) "Preety much everyone making sort of customer 4K camera ... except Canon." https://youtu.be/f0NdOE5GTgo
> - Casey Neystat (probably most famous vlogger) - recently switchet to Sony https://youtu.be/GTjy9VlsNaY
> Just if it's true.. I hope they wake up and continue even with other products.



Out of interest, as I know very little about video, but is 'vlogging' where the demand for 4K comes from? So we can see the hairs and lines on people's faces better? But also, are people buying the 5D4 for this purpose? It seems overkill.


----------



## scyrene (Mar 29, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> So if true: it's also a huge score for the 4K crowd- all of our complaining worked and paid off. For all the naysayers who called the 4K crowd "whiners" and told them to shut up because Canon is profitable and knows what they're doing- this is a little proof that Canon does read the forum boards, that the little 4K crusade worked, and that Canon ultimately decided they agree with us. Even if it's only to protect the 5DIV from being cannibalized by the 6DII, it proves they listened and agreed on what video features were lacking. For those of us who haven't jumped on board with the new 5D, it's added incentive and sales will only increase because of it. Like it or not, these days, video matters.



Strictly speaking, this doesn't prove that assertion at all. We don't know why they've decided to do this (if it comes true). Several competing hypotheses have been expressed - it could be long-term repositioning of the lines (e.g. to differentiate more with the 6D2), it could be due to lacklustre sales, it could be due to direct feedback from consumers - especially big customers (i.e. not individuals). If you want to believe that whining on forums is the main decision maker at major companies, then you're free to do so, but it doesn't sound the most convincing one to me.

PS "crusade"? Really?? :


----------



## scyrene (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



wallstreetoneil said:


> If this is true, which I sort of doubt, it will mark a defining mega change at Canon, revealing that they finally get that cellphones are destroying the camera market, and that they actually have to offer, real unique products, that don't compete with cellphones.



Is the addition of these features, which however unprecedented, are still just a few extra video modes in a camera predominantly aimed, it seems, at stills use (ergonimically, for one thing), "the" thing that will stem the tide of mobile phones eating into camera sales? People were giving up cameras for phones because phones give them, e.g. a slightly wider fov in 4K? Exaggeration is an understatement.


----------



## davidhfe (Mar 29, 2017)

scyrene said:


> Strictly speaking, this doesn't prove that assertion at all. We don't know why they've decided to do this (if it comes true). Several competing hypotheses have been expressed - it could be long-term repositioning of the lines (e.g. to differentiate more with the 6D2), it could be due to lacklustre sales, it could be due to direct feedback from consumers - especially big customers (i.e. not individuals). If you want to believe that whining on forums is the main decision maker at major companies, then you're free to do so, but it doesn't sound the most convincing one to me.
> 
> PS "crusade"? Really?? :



Could be even more mundane: engineering trade offs that couldn't be resolved without missing the holiday ship date. Design, fab and test of a new heat pipe and a digic 6 implementation of XFAVC are both pretty big projects, and CR has a post a long time back that canon had already made some big (for them) mid-stream course corrections in the 5D4.


----------



## Sharlin (Mar 29, 2017)

davidhfe said:


> Could be even more mundane: engineering trade offs that couldn't be resolved without missing the holiday ship date. Design, fab and test of a new heat pipe and a digic 6 implementation of XFAVC are both pretty big projects, and CR has a post a long time back that canon had already made some big (for them) mid-stream course corrections in the 5D4.



Yeah, this. This doesn't sound like a project scrambled together in a few months based on post-release feedback and sales data. Speaking as a software engineer who knows how long these things take even if the average forum poster thinks software can just be magiced up at a moment's notice.


----------



## transpo1 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



CanonGrunt said:


> Anyone else think that a 5D C might be on the horizon? NAB maybe? This seems more plausible I think. Filmmakers perform the 5D form factor over the 1DC, so I thing the C will get passed down the line. If not this year, than next...



Certainly hope so- I've been asking for that for a long time.


----------



## transpo1 (Mar 29, 2017)

scyrene said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > So if true: it's also a huge score for the 4K crowd- all of our complaining worked and paid off. For all the naysayers who called the 4K crowd "whiners" and told them to shut up because Canon is profitable and knows what they're doing- this is a little proof that Canon does read the forum boards, that the little 4K crusade worked, and that Canon ultimately decided they agree with us. Even if it's only to protect the 5DIV from being cannibalized by the 6DII, it proves they listened and agreed on what video features were lacking. For those of us who haven't jumped on board with the new 5D, it's added incentive and sales will only increase because of it. Like it or not, these days, video matters.
> ...



More likely it's due to *overall* internet "whining," not just on this forum. But interesting that the issues being addressed mirrored all the ones discussed here, no?  

P.S. 
crusade
[kroo-seyd] 
3. any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc.:


----------



## CanonGrunt (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



transpo1 said:


> CanonGrunt said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else think that a 5D C might be on the horizon? NAB maybe? This seems more plausible I think. Filmmakers perform the 5D form factor over the 1DC, so I thing the C will get passed down the line. If not this year, than next...
> ...




Man my grammar and spelling sucked when I wrote this. *prefer, *think

Anyway, I'd love a 5D C personally.


----------



## transpo1 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



CanonGrunt said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > CanonGrunt said:
> ...


----------



## Mr. Milo (Mar 29, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



You're a hater for no reason. The 5D Mark IV needed this with a lot of people jumping ship to Sony and the new Panasonic GH5. I don't care what Amazon sales say. Canon knew something was up; something BIG that was negative for them so they had to do this when they rarely do.

When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.


----------



## transpo1 (Mar 29, 2017)

Mr. Milo said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...




Were you directing this towards Scyrene or myself? 

You're absolutely right about 5D Mark IV- sales seemed good but they knew something was going on- the zeitgeist for video shooters was not with their new camera. And maybe they realized that people who buy Sony stills cams for video graduate to Sony cinema cams, not Canon Cinema EOS...

It's good to remember we say all this stuff because *we love Canon products* and *WANT* them to put these video features in their cameras so we can continue using them 

Gosh, now I'm getting a bit misty-eyed for my 5DII which I sold after getting the 5DIII


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 29, 2017)

*Theory on all this*

Theory:
There was development on a 5DC going on in parallel to the 5D4, but in the end, they realized there wasn't enough differentiation between it and the 5D4 on one side and it and the cinema line on the other. As a result, they wouldn't be able to charge enough of a premium and sell enough of the 5DC to make dedicating a production line to it worthwhile. It is just much cheaper, production-wise, to keep it all in one line. 

So they threw ideas around about announcing an early 5D5, etc., etc., but settled on upgrading the current production of the 5D4, so they'd make some incremental sales and not have an unprofitable, small-batch line they'd need to support separately.

There are several plausible theories like this as to why this strange development happened. I don't know if it's already been pointed out, though, that we're a couple days away from April Fools Day as well as - theoretically - a new Canon firmware announcement.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*

I think anybody that believes there is going to be a factory hardware upgrade in such a high volume camera is in denial.


----------



## YuengLinger (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



privatebydesign said:


> I think anybody that believes there is going to be a factory hardware upgrade in such a high volume camera is in denial.



Wow! We finally agree on something. After some time to consider, I think this rumor does seem less plausible.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



YuengLinger said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I think anybody that believes there is going to be a factory hardware upgrade in such a high volume camera is in denial.
> ...



Law of averages, you have to be right sooner or later 

Having said that the last time I made a statement like that it was to pull the pre release photo of the 24-70 f2.8 MkII to pieces (the front element looks ridiculously yellow) and I was wrong, so maybe you are maintaining your 100% streak of getting stuff wrong and I am going 2 for 5,800+


----------



## horshack (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



jolyonralph said:


> Something has been bugging me about this announcement - why would a bigger heatsink help reduce heat *inside a weather-sealed camera*? Isn't the magnesium alloy case the only real way that heat can be dissipated out of the camera?



There are two separate considerations here - getting the heat off the chips (sensor, ASIC/DIGIG) and getting the heat out of the camera. The primary consideration is to get the heat off the chips (since those are what would be affected most), which means to transfer the heat from the chips into the internal ambient air inside the camera body. It may be that there is enough internal space/ambient air inside the body where the chips can continue to run below their max temperature even with the ambient air temp inside the body rising and causing a commensurate rise of temperature of the heatsink+chip.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Mar 29, 2017)

YuengLinger said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I think anybody that believes there is going to be a factory hardware upgrade in such a high volume camera is in denial.
> ...



Although not directly comparable, I remember Nikon offering a hardware buffer upgrade in their pro-bodies at one point in the past. Owners with older bodies had to pay for the upgrade, but new bodies already had this done. In terms of software, in cinema land, this is par for the course. You pay for software and codec unlocks. In any case, if this doesn't turn out to be a bad joke in a few days when April rolls around and this turns out to be a paid upgrade, I will definitely be one of the first in line. I'd pay just for the XF-AVC codec alone. This upgrade alone dramatically improves the video acquisition process and makes it much more meaningful to use the 5DIV for a wider range of video projects. Everything else is icing on the cake. 

For myself and I'm assuming many others, Canon glass is still a mainstay for a lot of production work because the EF mount has great compatibility and is supported with native mounts on many other platforms. If you invest in E-mount glass, you are limited to Sony cameras only. That's not very flexible when working across systems, so many of us complain whenever Canon fails to reach our segment of the market because we want the best of "both worlds." Native lens support on Canon bodies for stills, while having all of the great video features found on the competition.

I created my account here to originally voice my complaints about the lack of a proper video feature set in the 5DIV, so if this rumor actually materializes, I guess I'm going to have to shut up for a long time....


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 29, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> Although not directly comparable, I remember Nikon offering a hardware buffer upgrade in their pro-bodies at one point in the past. Owners with older bodies had to pay for the upgrade, but new bodies already had this done. In terms of software, in cinema land, this is par for the course. You pay for software and codec unlocks.



The Nikon memory upgrades cost $500. Serious video cameras cost thousands of dollars and sell in relatively (to a 5 series Canon) low numbers, but factory mount changes and even sensor changes/upgrades are not that uncommon, like the C-Line dual pixel upgrades, but they cost a lot.

Software unlocks/firmware upgrades I can see, but for a volume camera like the 5D MkIV a real hardware upgrade? I just don't see it unless there was another reason for wanting to get those cameras back to the service depots. Like a hidden recall for an issue we don't know about, but I don't believe that either as there is no way there is a serious issue with the camera that we, as a user base, are unaware of.


----------



## rrcphoto (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: Theory on all this*



[email protected] said:


> Theory:
> There was development on a 5DC going on in parallel to the 5D4, but in the end, they realized there wasn't enough differentiation between it and the 5D4 on one side and it and the cinema line on the other. As a result, they wouldn't be able to charge enough of a premium and sell enough of the 5DC to make dedicating a production line to it worthwhile. It is just much cheaper, production-wise, to keep it all in one line.
> 
> So they threw ideas around about announcing an early 5D5, etc., etc., but settled on upgrading the current production of the 5D4, so they'd make some incremental sales and not have an unprofitable, small-batch line they'd need to support separately.
> ...



your theory makes the most sense - but canon doing a "recall" to change 5D Mark IV's to a 5D Mark IVs's?

I really doubt this is happening, sounds like someone decided to invent a rumor to see how many legs it would get.

Personally I think a few days away from April 1st is the best theory.


----------



## Bennymiata (Mar 30, 2017)

I remember in the Lens Rentals teardown of the 5d4, that Roger said there was a lot of free space in the body.
Perhaps now we know why.


----------



## serenaur (Mar 30, 2017)

Just when I'd pretty much settled on a 1DXII, this announcement comes along! If this ends up being true and is also added to the 1DXII then it's a home run for me - if it's true and is only for the 5DIV then I will have some serious thinking to do.


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## leGreve (Mar 30, 2017)

So what Canon is really saying here.... "you guys should go buy the new GH5 from Panasonic... we dont know how to innovate anymore... "


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## leGreve (Mar 30, 2017)

Mr. Milo said:


> When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.



it is......? How? GH5 with better codec and higher framerates? The majority of the high end work I do end up on the web at 1080, why the hell would I juggle with 4K for that?

Canon has yet again proved they can't seem to get it right.

I admit, I'm still hoping that one day they will, because I really liked my 5D3 and shooting raw was fun, but since I sold off all my Canon gear and with every Canon announcement I'm confident I'm not missing out.


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## StudentOfLight (Mar 30, 2017)

Color me skpetical. I'd expect an intermediate resolution would conform to Quad-HD resolution i.e. 2560x1440, which is four times the resolution of 1280x720. On the 5D-IV, when sampling alternative lines from the 5120x2880 region of the sensor, the field of view crop factor would subsequently be about 1.31x.


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## retroreflection (Mar 30, 2017)

The new source could have heard "If we were to add x,y,z then we would have to get the cameras back to replace the heat sink." Then maybe the new source passed that along as "Canon will".
If someone wants to explore the feasibility, tear apart a IV. Check those heat sinks. If they have mechanical fasteners and a thermal interface material (grease or film), then maybe service centers could pull it off. If thermal adhesive is used, it can't be just a heat sink swap. The whole board it is sinking would have to be swapped.


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## benkam (Mar 30, 2017)

leGreve said:


> Mr. Milo said:
> 
> 
> > When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.
> ...



You got the GH5 and you're not using its 4K?


----------



## bsbeamer (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More*



CanonGrunt said:


> Anyone else think that a 5D C might be on the horizon? NAB maybe? This seems more plausible I think. Filmmakers perform the 5D form factor over the 1DC, so I thing the C will get passed down the line. If not this year, than next...



Many believe the 1DC is never being updated. It was ahead of its time when it was released, but priced WAY too high for wide adoption. The added "bulk" of a 1D vs 5D body is not the end of the world for filmmakers, but it does depend on the style of work and how compact you need to be. Those looking to go ultra small are on Sony A7 style cameras, despite needing to add bulk with lens adapters.

As for the 5DC, I personally do not see it happening this year. If this rumor is true, the 5D4 will be the "flagship" DSLR for video and then larger camera bodies (C100/300/500/700) will be the primary focus for the Cinema line. 

I've said for awhile, Canon needs an XC15 without a built-in lens. If the 5D4 updates are as close as we're getting to this, great - it will satisfy a good majority of those people. But if a "5DC" were to come out, the XC15 feature set is what it would need to match and exceed to become successful. They set the bar there with a camera not many even wanted...


----------



## AshtonNekolah (Mar 30, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We have been sent more information about the upcoming C-Log update to the EOS 5D Mark IV, while this comes from a new source, it’s pretty detailed.</p>
> <p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV C-Log Update:</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li>All video output will still be 8-bit.</li>
> ...



I laughed from the beginning, I suspected this would happen due to the expectations from the buyers, but its nice to see that canon is doing something about it. Nice to see some unlocking, man i wish magic lantern can jump in on this one to do some real full unlocking. The camera has more to offer it always had just canon with pick and choose when and how, now lets move forward.


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## AshtonNekolah (Mar 30, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> Is this an April Fool's joke 4 days early? The 5DIV becomes an entirely different beast with these updates. While I've seen this type of update from companies like Fuji, Ricoh or Blackmagic, I've never seen this scope of update from Canon ever. This feature set directly encroaches on some of their own C series offerings.
> 
> If this is true, Canon must be listening to us video/stills hybrid folks and it comes way earlier than I would expect which would have been 3 years down the road in the 5DV.


They listen, its just different on the inside of business, that's what happens when you rush out due to production dates. Now this is what a finished 5D 4 should sound like, with more firmware updates to come.


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## Mr. Milo (Mar 30, 2017)

leGreve said:


> Mr. Milo said:
> 
> 
> > When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.
> ...



Easy guy. You don't need to be rude or condescending because you're bitter after selling off your Canon gear. That's on you. 

I messed around with a GH5 two months ago. It's a beast camera and Canon knows what's up. The body is built very well. It's sturdy.

I think Canon lost a customer with me with their cameras unless they drop the price because $2000 for the GH5 is amazing, BUT I'm holding on to the Canon lens because those things are incredible and better than anything compared to Sony and Nikon offerings. The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.

I'm going to let things play out. I'm in no rush.


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## bsbeamer (Mar 30, 2017)

Mr. Milo said:


> The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.



If this rumor is true, the GH5 may be one of the bigger reasons this update is on the way now. If you look at the GH3 through GH5, it's been a crop evolution continually improving image quality and using more "full frame" especially if you use an adapter or focal reducer. Factoring in the Sony camera sales, it's clear Canon is missing out on market share. Also factoring the shrinking camera market in general (DSLR and mirrorless) this may be an attempt to take back some of the remaining market. For Canon's sake, I hope this rumor is true.


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## NightPhotographer (Mar 30, 2017)

Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.


----------



## tr573 (Mar 30, 2017)

NightPhotographer said:


> Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.



i don't think the hdmi port is the spec required for 4k


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## bsbeamer (Mar 30, 2017)

tr573 said:


> NightPhotographer said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.
> ...



Correct, 5D4 uses HDMI v1.3. Do not believe this would be part of the swap/upgrade, but also did not think this type of firmware update would ever be released by Canon...


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## davidhfe (Mar 30, 2017)

tr573 said:


> NightPhotographer said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.
> ...



This is (and it may be wishful thinking) one of the things that made me think this was real. If something like "clean 4K out" were in the rumor that'd almost certainly be false as it'd require a full logic board swap. I'd have a real hard time believing canon would do that. The general consensus has been this is just straight up not something that can be added via firmware.


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## Mikehit (Mar 30, 2017)

Mr. Milo said:


> The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.
> 
> I'm going to let things play out. I'm in no rush.



For you maybe, and specifically for video. But for people who want/need full frame or for people who want to shoot fast action stills the GH5 is way off the mark.


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## Mancubus (Mar 30, 2017)

Way to go Canon, now do something to cancel the AA filter and I'll go buy my 5D4 in the same week.


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## Tugela (Mar 30, 2017)

Mr. Milo said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



They are probably not that concerned about the GH5, since that occupies a different market space than the 5D cameras. The GH5 is more of a competitor to the Cx00 cameras and the XC series. The camera they will really be concerned about will be Sony's a9 or a7R3, when those show up, which is rumored to be very soon. Those particular cameras will directly challenge the 5D market aggressively, and THAT is what Canon are worried about.


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## Tugela (Mar 30, 2017)

Bennymiata said:


> I remember in the Lens Rentals teardown of the 5d4, that Roger said there was a lot of free space in the body.
> Perhaps now we know why.



That does not make sense. Canon already had more advanced processors in the form of the Digic 7, but did not include it in the 5D4. The Digic 7 is capable of hardware encoding 4K, but it requires active cooling to keep the thermals in check. If it was as simple as adding a heatsink and if the 5D4 had the space to do that, they would have used the Digic 7 in the first place. Instead, they used the older Digic 6 and the software based mpeg solution for 4K video, which is a half-assed stop gap measure to give the camera some 4K features.

All that this new rumor means (if it is true) is that there is some very competitive camera from some other manufacturer on the immediate horizon that will likely take significant market share from the 5D4, and as a result Canon are trying to push the 5D4 as far as they can beyond it's original design limitations. It reeks of desperation.


----------



## davidhfe (Mar 30, 2017)

Tugela said:


> Bennymiata said:
> 
> 
> > I remember in the Lens Rentals teardown of the 5d4, that Roger said there was a lot of free space in the body.
> ...



I think you underestimate Canon's engineering timelines. The decision to use Digic 6+ was probably made 3 years ago. Usually, this conservative approach to engineering works because it leads to solid, dependable professional products.

This time around, they underestimated the importance and adoption rate of 4K and got burned.

(Also minor quibble, "active cooling" usually refers to a fan, which does not seem to be the case in the 80D?)


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## bsbeamer (Mar 30, 2017)

this was just announced:
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/cinema-eos-video-firmware-update.shtml

Free Firmware for Select Canon Video and Cinema Cameras
Free Firmware Announcement for Select Canon Cinema EOS, Professional Video and Multi-Purpose cameras: EOS C700, EOS C100 Mark II, EOS C100 DAF, EOS C100, XC10, XC15, ME20F-SH, and ME200S-SH

does this make the 5D4 firmware more believable?


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## crazyrunner33 (Mar 30, 2017)

Well, I'm now holding off on the purchase of the GH5. It'd be nice to get back to having the same body for photos and videos instead of hauling the 5D MKIII and GH4. I'll wait until the real world results come in. I love shooting 4K for 1080 final delivery, it allows me to make subtle zooms and pans in post, along with cutting in and out of closeups. But the current 5D Mark IV 4K footage is a bit too muddy for cutting in and out in post.


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## scyrene (Mar 30, 2017)

bsbeamer said:


> Mr. Milo said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.
> ...



Doesn't a lot of this discussion rely on the assumption that this Panasonic model is a competitor? While it might make a better choice for some users, I doubt Canon sees it that way. They probably sell orders of magnitude more 5D cameras than Panasonic models... Where's Neuro with the stats?!


----------



## Sharlin (Mar 30, 2017)

scyrene said:


> Doesn't a lot of this discussion rely on the assumption that this Panasonic model is a competitor? While it might make a better choice for some users, I doubt Canon sees it that way. They probably sell orders of magnitude more 5D cameras than Panasonic models... Where's Neuro with the stats?!



Yeah. I find it very difficult to believe that Canon would consider an m4/3 camera, however awesome, a serious competitor to the 5D4.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Mar 30, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't a lot of this discussion rely on the assumption that this Panasonic model is a competitor? While it might make a better choice for some users, I doubt Canon sees it that way. They probably sell orders of magnitude more 5D cameras than Panasonic models... Where's Neuro with the stats?!
> ...



It depends if you are considering this from a stills or video perspective. The GH series is much further along for video production work than the 5D4. I rarely see anyone shoot video work with a 5D series body anymore. I see a ton of Sony primarily and to a lesser extent Panasonic.


----------



## Helevitia (Mar 30, 2017)

Meanwhile, I continue to enjoy my 5DM4 ;D

I'm on, like, my third bucket of popcorn for this thread.


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## Mikehit (Mar 30, 2017)

Tugela said:


> The camera they will really be concerned about will be Sony's a9 or a7R3, when those show up, which is rumored to be very soon. Those particular cameras will directly challenge the 5D market aggressively, and THAT is what Canon are worried about.



Every iteration of the Sony lines for the last 5 years, people have stood on the sidelines and said 'the next Sony will slay this under-specified crippled Canon'..only to find the Sony is either deficient or just as crippled as the Canon it was going to displace. I have no reason to think the next one will be any different.
Sony made a massive jump with the A7R and (like Olympus and their E-M5/E-M1) have found it had to repeat that jump and Canon just keeps chugging up behind them. 
If Aesop were alive today he would perhaps amend his fable...


----------



## scyrene (Mar 30, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



I thought the prevailing wisdom was, Canon took the success of the 5DII and created the Cinema line, and that they don't consider regular DSLRs (the 1DC exempted) as serious movie machines? In that sense, the 5D4 does not compete with those other cameras (in Canon's view).


----------



## syder (Mar 31, 2017)

Tugela said:


> Mr. Milo said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



Um... No. Sorry but no one has a serious decision to make as to whether to buy a 12K C300ii or a 2K GH5. The GH4/5 is (understandably) loved by budget conscious independents making work for the web. The Sony A7 is in much the same place, aside from a few people using the A7S as a specialist low light camera. The Canon cinema cameras (and their Sony compeitors such as the FS7) are professional tools used for tv/commercials etc. 

The 5D4 is still mainly a stills camera used by wedding/event photographers that can do video when needed, and with DPAF/touchscreen is a much better tool for some run and gun FF video than a lot of other options (such as the A7 cameras). It isn't primarily a video camera, which is why is suffers when compared to the GH5 which is basically a video camera without a bunch of fairly essential video features like ND filters, XLRs and half decent ergonomics. 

This upgrade sounds like bs to me to be honest. It'd make the 5D4 more appealing as a video camera, but it's hard to see it ever really appealing as a video camera because DSLRs just dont make better video cameras than actual video cameras, and the 5D4 is also not going to be cheap enough to compete with the GH5 for the really budget conscious web filmmaker crowd.

A C100mkiii that does 4K using something like the specs outlined here would make much more sense as a direct competitor to the FS5 at the bottom end of the cinema camera market.


----------



## cpreston (Mar 31, 2017)

A couple thoughts I've had as to why Canon might do this upgrade assuming this might be true.

I was really surprised that the C100 III is not being announced at NAB. Perhaps the Cinema team was working on upgrading the 5D instead.

While video may be a small slice of the DSLR market, my guess is that videographers tend to buy more lenses than your average shooter. The 1DC sold horribly, but its owners made up for it in lens purchases. Canon is releasing more cinema lenses such as the 18-80 t/4.4 CN-E and want to build up their market.

The 1DX II will not get any advanced video futures. The 1DX is considered Canon's "pro" DSLR and they don't want to annoy real photographers.

Every review of Canon's DSLRs mentions the poor video. Perhaps these reviews have made it up to Canon management.

I firmly believe that Canon's past market research showed that the average DSLR owner was not interested in video features. The lack of video features was due sales and marketing, not due to crippling in order to protect the cinema line. Maybe all that has changed now due to new information reaching the marketing division. I know that last summer I received a questionnaire from the cinema group asking me about my purchases and camera needs. As a Canon cinema user, I would buy one or two 5D iV's if these rumors turn out to be true.


----------



## ExodistPhotography (Mar 31, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We have been sent more information about the upcoming C-Log update to the EOS 5D Mark IV, while this comes from a new source, it’s pretty detailed.</p>
> <p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV C-Log Update:</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li>All video output will still be 8-bit.</li>
> ...




THIS THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED...

I do hope this makes it as this will very likely push me to get the 5D4 instead of waiting for the 6D2..


----------



## eguzowski (Mar 31, 2017)

IT'S ABPUT F'ING TIME! I'm thrilled the competition slapped them in the face...obviously there sales of the 5D IV Joke of a video DLR were tricking and they though, "huh..so now were going to piss off the pros with a 6D mark II with better 4k because the market won't take our bullshit anymore." 

First time this camera has interested me now as a 5D3 owner whom was looking at moving to Sony after 17 years as a Canon Pro (I've already begun switching to Sigma Art Glass with is great...after selling my L Glass) 

...still not sure it will save me until they also get a real mirrorless camera in their arsenal.


----------



## Mikehit (Mar 31, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> ...obviously there sales of the 5D IV Joke of a video DLR were tricking and they though, "huh..so now were going to piss off the pros with a 6D mark II with better 4k because the market won't take our bullS___ anymore."



Wow! What a lot of hate. 
Having a firmware this significant so soon after release is more likely to be stuff they planned at the time of release rather than your more fanciful 'slap in the face'. 

If Canon is causing you so much stress why not just switch to Sony and have done with it...then watch helplessly as Canon surpass Sony.


----------



## mps (Mar 31, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> eguzowski said:
> 
> 
> > ...obviously there sales of the 5D IV Joke of a video DLR were tricking and they though, "huh..so now were going to piss off the pros with a 6D mark II with better 4k because the market won't take our bullS___ anymore."
> ...



you really believe that? so in your eyes canon realeased after 4(?) years of waiting the 5d4 and then rushed it out without the intended firmware? no man, not even canon.. this is just a reaction to the whole market situation: videoshooters leave canon by the thousands, and this is the only idea they had to somewhat fight that trend. too late, too little canon. either this or the whole thing about the firmwareupdate is an early april fools joke (which i tend to believe)

also to me it seesms canon doesnt take videoshooters seriously. c100 doesnt even do broadcast quality, the c300 is a joke regarding the price, and the c700 tires (and miserably fails) to be an arri amira. their 8k solution is a joke, especially if you see the canon monster rig required for that next to a red.... their propperly specced cameras (c300II) are way overpriced, the whole dslr range (including the c100) is underpowered. canon, stick to make printers, thats what you are good at....


----------



## Mikehit (Mar 31, 2017)

mps said:


> you really believe that? so in your eyes canon realeased after 4(?) years of waiting the 5d4 and then rushed it out without the intended firmware? no man, not even canon.. this is just a reaction to the whole market situation: videoshooters leave canon by the thousands, and this is the only idea they had to somewhat fight that trend. too late, too little canon. either this or the whole thing about the firmwareupdate is an early april fools joke (which i tend to believe)
> 
> also to me it seesms canon doesnt take videoshooters seriously. c100 doesnt even do broadcast quality, the c300 is a joke regarding the price, and the c700 tires (and miserably fails) to be an arri amira. their 8k solution is a joke, especially if you see the canon monster rig required for that next to a red.... their propperly specced cameras (c300II) are way overpriced, the whole dslr range (including the c100) is underpowered. canon, stick to make printers, thats what you are good at....



I believe it is more likely than Canon crippling their new camera, then unlocking that because of a vocal minority (a reaction that was hardly unexpected) whose priority is video. 
It was far more likely that Canon had a release date and the firmware was not ready so they released what they had. 
Is this any less likely than Sony releasing a highly compromised camera and releasing an updated version less than a year late, a version which everyone said was what the first one should have been in the first place (and pissing off many of their clients in the first place).


----------



## kaptainkatsu (Mar 31, 2017)

cpreston said:


> The 1DX II will not get any advanced video futures. The 1DX is considered Canon's "pro" DSLR and they don't want to annoy real photographers.



I hope this isn't true. While I did buy my 1DX2 primarily as a stills camera, the [email protected] and [email protected] features really did put my purchase decision over the edge. I dabble in a bit of video work (and need to do more to become more proficient at it) and these rumored updates to the 5D4 will be welcome to me. Code base should be similar between the 1DX2 and 5D4 so I wouldn't think it would be too hard to push out a similar update.

Secondly, the do it all nature of the 1DX2 reallly appeals to me. I don't have to go out and buy a C100ii to do video


----------



## scyrene (Mar 31, 2017)

mps said:


> the whole market situation: videoshooters leave canon by the thousands, and this is the only idea they had to somewhat fight that trend. too late, too little canon.



Citation needed.


----------



## djkraq (Mar 31, 2017)

One would think that the 1DX Mark II could do theoretically 120fps 4k @150mbps bitrate which is why it should take longer for the 1DX Mark II to come out with a new update.


----------



## cpreston (Mar 31, 2017)

Regarding the heat issue, I owned a 1DC and that thing got hot. Uncomfortable to hold hot. I saw the temperature warning more than a few times when shooting in 4K. Plus, the camera would have hot spots on the sensor that could not be black balanced out and got noticeably worse as the temperature went up. 

The temperature control is a serious engineering problem for Canon and it is a tradeoff between write speeds, processing, and sensor read out.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Mar 31, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> IT'S ABPUT F'ING TIME! I'm thrilled the competition slapped them in the face...obviously there sales of the 5D IV Joke of a video DLR were tricking and they though, "huh..so now were going to piss off the pros with a 6D mark II with better 4k because the market won't take our bullS___ anymore."
> 
> First time this camera has interested me now as a 5D3 owner whom was looking at moving to Sony after 17 years as a Canon Pro (I've already begun switching to Sigma Art Glass with is great...after selling my L Glass)
> 
> ...still not sure it will save me until they also get a real mirrorless camera in their arsenal.


This is still a rumor because I havent seen anything confirmed from Canon themselves.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Mar 31, 2017)

My guess is this is a well crafted hoax to stir the masses to put extra pressure on Canon. April 1 tomorrow.

Jack


----------



## OmarN (Mar 31, 2017)

Wow! If these pan out to be true, I am definitely buying. This is coming from someone who had zero intention of buying this camera before these updates.


----------



## bsbeamer (Mar 31, 2017)

cpreston said:


> Regarding the heat issue, I owned a 1DC and that thing got hot. Uncomfortable to hold hot. I saw the temperature warning more than a few times when shooting in 4K. Plus, the camera would have hot spots on the sensor that could not be black balanced out and got noticeably worse as the temperature went up.
> 
> The temperature control is a serious engineering problem for Canon and it is a tradeoff between write speeds, processing, and sensor read out.



I've run into overheating on other smaller form-factor cameras when shooting 4K. The more compact systems that engage a fan unit to run 100% of the time (without ramp up/ramp down) are the most reliable, but even those have issues. Sometimes it seems like this is due to the compression codec being used (and processing power required), but other times it's just an annoying general problem to work around. 

Having a spare body around does help if this is a problem, but at the $3500 price point that piece of mind does not come cheap. Nor does it help if this is a problem that peaks during the middle of an interview or shot setup.

Do wonder if the 2k/3k style modes they're rumored to be offering will be plagued by the same issue.


----------



## dak723 (Apr 1, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> My guess is this is a well crafted hoax to stir the masses to put extra pressure on Canon. April 1 tomorrow.
> 
> Jack



My guess this is a well crafted hoax put out by Sony or another Canon competitor to piss off canon customers when they find out it isn't true. Brilliant marketing! Look how many folks on this forum are considering this to be an accurate announcement rather than a rumor from a new and unknown source. As PT Barnum supposedly said, "There's a sucker born every minute..."


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## James Larsen (Apr 1, 2017)

What if this is an April Fools Joke? Hopefully not...


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## Denisas Pupka (Apr 1, 2017)

Happy to see rumors like this, but I'm little pessimistic about this. I wouldn't be surprised if this is rather rumors for upcoming 1DC mark II. It's just look too good to be true.

But if this is true, I'm really considering to change my 5d mark iii + magic lantern.


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## risto0 (Apr 1, 2017)

I wanted to buy this camera as soon as the shop gets new stock in mid April. By checking today i noticed that they've got their stock early and it's now available again at quite a good price (€3300.-). But thanks to this rumor i cannot go and buy the camera because if the rumors come out true, i hope canon also announces based on serial number, if a camera needs hv upgrade or not. I am afraid to go and buy the camera now an then in a few weeks need to send it in for an upgrade. And maybe even pay for this.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 1, 2017)

risto0 said:


> I wanted to buy this camera as soon as the shop gets new stock in mid April. By checking today i noticed that they've got their stock early and it's now available again at quite a good price (€3300.-). But thanks to this rumor i cannot go and buy the camera because if the rumors come out true, i hope canon also announces based on serial number, if a camera needs hv upgrade or not. I am afraid to go and buy the camera now an then in a few weeks need to send it in for an upgrade. And maybe even pay for this.



Well it won't be long to wait to know if this is just a rumor, so definitely a wise decision. Myself, I'm debating 6D2 or 5D4 as a second camera and will also wait. Of course that's after my somewhat disappointing early adopter purchase of the 1DX2. 

Jack


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## CanonGrunt (Apr 2, 2017)

I still feel like this is going to be a separate camera as well. A 5D C or 1DC MK II, or perhaps even a refresh of the C100 at NAB. Looking back over this, something just doesn't seem right for it to be the mark IV...


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## -pekr- (Apr 2, 2017)

Not being much into cinematography myself (70D here, waiting for 6DII), but I cut some simple videos for our LED screens. Thinking of switching from Director Suite to Davinci Resolve. Found out Blackmagic cameras. With their price ranging from 990 USD - 2990 USD I start to wonder, why would anyone use DSLR instead? Just because as a photographer, you have DSLR always available? It will be also interesting to see, how their new Ursa mini Pro stands against Canon C100/C300, with the cca 6K USD cost ... Just curious ...


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## syder (Apr 2, 2017)

-pekr- said:


> Not being much into cinematography myself (70D here, waiting for 6DII), but I cut some simple videos for our LED screens. Thinking of switching from Director Suite to Davinci Resolve. Found out Blackmagic cameras. With their price ranging from 990 USD - 2990 USD I start to wonder, why would anyone use DSLR instead? Just because as a photographer, you have DSLR always available? It will be also interesting to see, how their new Ursa mini Pro stands against Canon C100/C300, with the cca 6K USD cost ... Just curious ...



Blackmagic make amazingly specced cameras that are very reasonably priced. The biggest downside is that in practice they tend not to be very reliable. So much so that some rental houses would only loan people an Ursa Mini if they signed a disclaimer saying that they took full responsibility if the thing didn't work properly. 

It's kinda the opposite of Canon's slightly unexciting offerings that typically work very well. For most professional uses dull and dependable beats unreliable every time. And having earned that reputation over several years, its gonna be hard for Blackmagic to lose it. 

That said, with the C100ii needing a 4k update Sony pretty much rules the entry level cinema camera market for now with the FS5 and until the big price drop the C300ii was poor value compared to the FS7

Oh, and the blackmagic cameras are also woeful in low light.


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## bsbeamer (Apr 3, 2017)

Based on the new Magic Lantern firmware available for the 5D3 (which is only "proof of concept" at the moment), maybe this really will be likely. The 5D4 should be able to handle all of those specs and more. Patiently waiting for NAB... 

Maybe Canon is finally trying to beat the firmware developers by releasing products to market, or adding features after initial release? If so, that would be a great change for consumers.


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## ExodistPhotography (Apr 3, 2017)

bsbeamer said:


> Based on the new Magic Lantern firmware available for the 5D3 (which is only "proof of concept" at the moment), maybe this really will be likely. The 5D4 should be able to handle all of those specs and more. Patiently waiting for NAB...
> 
> Maybe Canon is finally trying to beat the firmware developers by releasing products to market, or adding features after initial release? If so, that would be a great change for consumers.



Just seen the announcement and seems its a go: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19300.0
Its also announced on April 1st... #rolleyes..


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## rrcphoto (Apr 5, 2017)

bsbeamer said:


> Based on the new Magic Lantern firmware available for the 5D3 (which is only "proof of concept" at the moment), maybe this really will be likely. The 5D4 should be able to handle all of those specs and more. Patiently waiting for NAB...



except if you actually read what ML has / does.. there's alot of problems with it including the fact that you can't liveview preview this - only half / quadrant of the image appears,etc.

IMO, the problem with canon wasn't that hte sensor stream couldn't handle 4K - it was the fact that a) the DSP / CODEC couldn't (ML uses raw/mjpeg encoding as well) and the livestream / hdmi pipeline was 1080p

nothing that ML is doing suggests otherwise.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 5, 2017)

Denisas Pupka said:


> Happy to see rumors like this, but I'm little pessimistic about this. I wouldn't be surprised if this is rather rumors for upcoming 1DC mark II.



it would make more sense really to see all that on a 1DC Mark II - where the battery / heat sinking can support it. But to be honest, I see the Mark II as being 8K not 4K

I can't see canon deciding to so drastically change the Mark IV. Unless they are creating a 5DC and allowing people to upgrade their 5D Mark IV"s to 5DC's in a similar manner to what nikon used to do with the "s" models.

as i've suggested to some of the video nuts in here - why would canon do this for a market that wouldn't use a DSLR for it? some of them couldn't even understand the question. a DSLR has the most horrible video ergonomics of ILC's for video. MILC's are much more suited and available - so why a DSLR? and why a DSLR over a MILC or a video ILC?

I guess we'll see in two weeks if this was true or just a well played hoax.


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## aero1126 (Apr 6, 2017)

Policar said:


> Ripley said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Not saying this is true, but if you believe the initial C-Log rumor, then you should also believe in the service update as it is from the same source in the same initial post. 

With that being said, I highly doubt that the heatsink would be so marginal to where it was taken over the edge from simply adding C-Log which suggests other features that take much more processing and therefore creates much more heat are on there way.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 6, 2017)

aero1126 said:


> Policar said:
> 
> 
> > Ripley said:
> ...



C-LOG is an entirely different pipelining - it could require more heatsinking for canon's comfort. this is canon, not sony.


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## transpo1 (Apr 7, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Denisas Pupka said:
> 
> 
> > Happy to see rumors like this, but I'm little pessimistic about this. I wouldn't be surprised if this is rather rumors for upcoming 1DC mark II.
> ...



Guys, are we really still on the "why would anyone use a DSLR for video debate?" Some people shoot stills AND motion and don't want to compromise the quality of either. Some of us also prefer Canon products to others and like the 5D form factor.


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## Diko (Apr 7, 2017)

Does anyone remember if there was some kind of release date for the new firmware?


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## transpo1 (Apr 7, 2017)

Diko said:


> Does anyone remember if there was some kind of release date for the new firmware?



Announcement was meant to be April 20th but I didn't hear anything about a release date.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 8, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Denisas Pupka said:
> ...



all ten of you will most likely continue to complain after April 20th. the rest of the people a) went to MILC's where it makes alot more sense b) use video cameras with EF mounts which makes even more sense.

that is the entire premise of the Cxxx line. DSLR cameras will blow for video, it really doesn't matter what do you do it, it's a hack. *UNTIL* we get hyrbid viewfinders - until then, why go full bore on video?

You have zero demonstrable proof that this is a large market for DSLR's.

We'll find out on the 20th what's correct. if it's just C-LOG - it's a meh. if it's the entire ball of wax, then I eat crow with some salt, pepper, lightly roasted with BBQ sauce and will certainly apologize to you and STFU about it.

will you do the same?


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## aero1126 (Apr 9, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



The answer to this is VERY simple. Why buy 2 cameras when 1 can do the job? Many people can't buy 2 cameras, so they are going to look for a camera that is as good as possible at both. Many people do more of stills or more of video BUT still do some or a moderate amount of the other. In that case, why buy a whole new camera for the one you do less of instead of buying a camera that does your primary very well and the secondary better than the other camera options? The other aspect is marketing, being able to say you do stills very well AND you do video very well is always going to be better than saying you can only do one very well.

Quite honestly I don't understand why the idea of people going for the best value when it comes to performance and features is difficult to understand. This is the same reason that the market for handheld gaming systems is decreasing, why buy a separate handheld that may be better at gaming when you have a smartphone that does it well enough.

I don't know if Canon will implement all of those features in the rumor, but saying that video isn't important is very shortsighted from a marketing perspective given the competition and other cameras out there.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 9, 2017)

aero1126 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...


Clearly another one that misses the point. It's not the best at both and never can be. If you want the best if both you get a mirrorless. 

Once Sony did the FE mount, the need for dslrs to shoot video basically died. They are an awkward hybrid solution compared to the A7 series. If you are looking for a hybrid solution, you look mirrorless, it's already there. Shoving a round peg into a square hole rarely works. 

So the question is just how many are left or even want a gimped hybrid camera when others, aka mirrorless have already taken the majority of that market.


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## aero1126 (Apr 9, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> aero1126 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



You are the only one missing the point. Has it ever occurred to you that not everyone thinks that mirrorless is the best hybrid solution? Has it ever occurred to you that people who primarily shoot stills prefer the ergonomics and autofocus more than a mirrorless solution? You keep saying a dslr hybrid is gimped, but it's really not. Would a mirrorless be better than a DSLR for video? Maybe, that doesn't mean the DSLR is gimped.

This also doesn't change the MARKETING component of being good at both. Most people have things with features that they'll never use or never even notice, but if you are looking at the same price point, all else being equal, they will still get the product that has those features. Take TV's for example, they used to advertise high refresh rates that you'd never notice visually, now they market 4k TV's even though most people don't sit close enough to their TV to perceive any difference between 4k and 1080p. Are all of these companies stupid or something? No, because of these features are there, regardless of if people can actually notice the differences, these TV's are PERCEIVED to be better. 

It's simple, people have a strong tendency to prefer getting the most value for their money. Rather it's real value or simply perceived value, it doesn't matter.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 9, 2017)

The logic of aero1126 is pretty sound. My purchase of the 1DX2 over the 5D4 was partly influenced by my desire to do some nature video with it. I am not nor ever will be a pro in either camp but I am particular about the images I display and would like to have the best possible in this compromise situation and I certainly don't want a mirrorless camera.

What happens in these threads is that some video focused contributors will have unrealistic expectations and make unrealistic demands and it sets the tone for discussions degenerating. I don't doubt Canon has made some difficult marketing decisions that very much revolve around what carrots to offer on the stick they hold out and there is no doubt in my mind they are holding back some features that wouldn't cost much to include, but me griping about it isn't likely to change that massive corporation's decisions. Ultimately market reality will influence them one way or the other. We don't know their long term strategy.

Jack


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## Mikehit (Apr 9, 2017)

One of Canon's quoted reasons for the video they put into the 5DIV was that the codec (is that the right word? - shows my ignorance on this) is good enough for the people who shoot still but want to add some video clips. They reckon that anyone more serious about video will get a video-dedicated camera and that the casual user who would use the 5DIV probably does not have the computer capacity to edit 4K. In the real world I think they are right on both counts and the people complaining are the ones who want a C700-1Dx2 hybrid for 3 grand. 
It ain't gonna happen.


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## transpo1 (Apr 9, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> One of Canon's quoted reasons for the video they put into the 5DIV was that the codec (is that the right word? - shows my ignorance on this) is good enough for the people who shoot still but want to add some video clips. They reckon that anyone more serious about video will get a video-dedicated camera and that the casual user who would use the 5DIV probably does not have the computer capacity to edit 4K. In the real world I think they are right on both counts and the people complaining are the ones who want a C700-1Dx2 hybrid for 3 grand.
> It ain't gonna happen.



Yep- your ignorance on this is showing. The codec was put in because it was the easiest possible solution to 4:2:2 4K video with the least possible processing power (other people can fill in here) using JPEG compression while simultaneously hobbling the camera with an inefficient codec that many professionals and hybrid video shooters would rather not use, thus "not cannibalizing the Cinema EOS line" (I use quotes here because Sony is already cannibalizing the Cinema EOS line even though they are apparently not making much profit doing it). 

Again, people who start out using Sony mirrorless cameras for hybrid and video will eventually graduate to Sony cinema cameras, not Canon- this is why Canon should begin including video features that match the competition.


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## syder (Apr 10, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > One of Canon's quoted reasons for the video they put into the 5DIV was that the codec (is that the right word? - shows my ignorance on this) is good enough for the people who shoot still but want to add some video clips. They reckon that anyone more serious about video will get a video-dedicated camera and that the casual user who would use the 5DIV probably does not have the computer capacity to edit 4K. In the real world I think they are right on both counts and the people complaining are the ones who want a C700-1Dx2 hybrid for 3 grand.
> ...



Sort of... MJPEG was never a problem for people using the 1DC, but those were professionals who could afford the storage that went with a 10K+ camera. Hell, a Red Helium will shoot at up to 300MB/s, i.e about 2400Mb/s and professionals dont complain that makes it unusable. Its the Youtubers who want to shoot 100Mb/s 4K from a GH4 who have been up in arms about the 5D4 codec. 

Sony have taken a big chunk out of the cinema line, but that's because the FS7 launched at about half the price of the C300mkii, and Canon still has no entry level 4K cinema camera to comete with the FS5, it really doesn't have much to do with Sony mirrorless cameras. 

Video professionals buy cinema cameras, very few consumers do because of the costs involved. The YouTube market is likely a lot bigger in terms of volume than cinema cameras, and its dominated by much cheaper options like the GH4 and the 80D


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## transpo1 (Apr 10, 2017)

syder said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



Video professionals buy cinema cameras but video professionals who are just beginning their careers (i.e. in college) or who want a do-all camera or who are hybrid shooters want something that can take stills as well. And why would they graduate to a Canon Cinema EOS camera if they start out with Sony cameras which are fulfilling those video and stills needs?

In addition, I do think there is a halo effect right now that goes from A7SII up through FS5 through FS7 and back down again. Are those who buy an FS7 and want a B cam going with a Canon? Nope- they'll buy an A7SII, A7RII or even a 6500. So Sony has them up and down the video range and this keeps them in the ecosystem for years.


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## Bennymiata (Apr 10, 2017)

According to Chuck Westfall, the reason Canon put in that codec was so that stills shooters could take short videos and then use grabs to make good 8mpx photos to get the perfect expressions etc.
Can you realistically do that with a 4k video at only 100mps?

That terrible codec may not be the best for heavy video guys, but for wedding photographers, it could be very handy.


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## Mikehit (Apr 10, 2017)

Bennymiata said:


> According to Chuck Westfall, the reason Canon put in that codec was so that stills shooters could take short videos and then use grabs to make good 8mpx photos to get the perfect expressions etc.
> Can you realistically do that with a 4k video at only 100mps?
> 
> That terrible codec may not be the best for heavy video guys, but for wedding photographers, it could be very handy.



I suspect that is in part post-rationalisation.


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## syder (Apr 10, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> syder said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



As someone who lectures at a university... Nope, students do not buy Sony cameras. They are way, way more likely to have a Rebel as their do all than anything else, as in, I have about 20x as many students with them. And most students don't have a camera at all... They use ours cos their meager income goes on feeding themselves and a few beers ;-)

Your logic is also terrible. Why would anyone use an Arri or Red camera when those dumb companies dont have a cheap as chips all in one hybrid camera? 

Just because you learn to use one system very rarely precludes video professionals from changing systems. Unlike the stills world where glass tends to mean a lot of systemic inertia builds up, until recently videographers have been pretty ready to jump ship. I first used with Sony cameras, but have gone through using Panasonics, Fujifilm, back to Sony, RED and Canon at various stages. 

Most the guys I know with FS7s are using EF glass, so moving back to Canon would hardly be difficult, as a lot of them came from using C300s. Again, using your broken logic that wouldn't happen as they would be stuck in the Canon ecosystem.

Canon currently finds itself in a much tougher place in the video market than a few years ago when the C300 dominated the mid-range HD market and the C100 mopped up a lot of the entry level. Arri and RED still dominate the top end (sorry C700), the C300mkii was overpriced on launch at $16K and so lost a lot of potential traction as an FS7 was about half the price, and there still isn't a 4K C100mkiii to compete with the FS5 (and potentially blow it away for single operator news/documentary shoots where DPAF is fantastic). 

That has nothing to do with what happens at the $2-3K level jack of all trades cameras. People dont buy a 5Div and then decide that as they like video they'll just pop out and grab a C300mkii. And likewise, there aren't that many people buying A7SIIs, let alone buying one and then deciding to grab an FS7 too.


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## vjlex (Apr 10, 2017)

syder said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > syder said:
> ...



I could be wrong, but his logic seems pretty sound to me.

I'm not a university lecturer, but from my own personal, anecdotal experience, digitally I started out on a couple of Canon Elphs, then came the Rebel, then came the XTi, then came L-glass, then came the 5D Mark II, then came even more L-glass, and now I'm at the 5d IV. So yeah, there is something to be said for starting in one system and staying there as you level up.

Maybe when talking of crossing over from still photo to videography, maybe the system you've already bought into is less relevant. But as someone who has been with Canon for years, if I ever did decide to crossover, Canon would at least be in the running, because I know I wouldn't be starting completely from zero. And to me, that seems like good marketing. Repeat clientele is the lifeblood of perhaps any successful business.

The point he was making wasn't necessarily about the system invested in precluding video professionals. It was more about gateways for people who start in a system and tend to stick with it as they progress. Afterall, we are creatures of habit, and unless something is unbearably bad, many people choose to stick with the devil they know.


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## jayphotoworks (Apr 10, 2017)

Crossing into another system is quite relevant. Starting off with EF glass is significantly more flexible than starting off with E-mount glass. Because of Sony's mirrorless design, the flange distance precludes it from being mounted on any other cinema camera system other than its own. With EF glass, you not only have a much more mature lens system with many options including tilt shift and creative lenses, but there are many adapters bridging almost all other mounts in existence and most pro-level systems have options that support the EF mount natively. These adapters are also quite mature and are frequently updated for compatibility because Canon's dominance in market share means their glass is in the hands of many.


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## rolandas (Apr 11, 2017)

"... update & more" I wish:
- Timelapse 4k
- Release ISO Lock on Timelapse
- Remove "magic" 3600 number limitation
- and most needed feature - automatical exposition, because sunset and sunrise timelapses cannot be done. Instead I use CHDK tools for P&S Camera or Hyperlapse App on Android.

Regards


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## transpo1 (Apr 11, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> Crossing into another system is quite relevant. Starting off with EF glass is significantly more flexible than starting off with E-mount glass. Because of Sony's mirrorless design, the flange distance precludes it from being mounted on any other cinema camera system other than its own. With EF glass, you not only have a much more mature lens system with many options including tilt shift and creative lenses, but there are many adapters bridging almost all other mounts in existence and most pro-level systems have options that support the EF mount natively. These adapters are also quite mature and are frequently updated for compatibility because Canon's dominance in market share means their glass is in the hands of many.



All true- the Sony A6500 autofocus with Metabones is as fast as EF glass on some Canon cameras, but there is no substitute for using native glass with Canon cameras and color science with comparable video features.


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## TudorD (Apr 13, 2017)

*Firmware Version 1.0.4 is out with important changes in Finnish translation*


Changes in the Firmware
Firmware Version 1.0.4 incorporates the following fixes and improvements:

1. Fixes a phenomenon in which a red-colored area may appear at the bottom-center of a captured image when shooting in bulb mode or during a long exposure.
2. Fixes a phenomenon in which the autofocus may not respond when the autofocus is initiated via pressing the shutter button, the AF-ON button or the AE lock button when configured in the custom control menu.
3. Enhances the reliability of communications between the camera and SD card.
4. Fixes incorrect wording on the Finnish language menu screen.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 13, 2017)

*Re: Firmware Version 1.0.4 is out with important changes in Finnish translation*



TudorD said:


> Changes in the Firmware
> Firmware Version 1.0.4 incorporates the following fixes and improvements:
> 
> 1. Fixes a phenomenon in which a red-colored area may appear at the bottom-center of a captured image when shooting in bulb mode or during a long exposure.
> ...



I believe I've had issues with the 1DX2 relative to item 2. The systems are so similar I'm wondering if this could be my problem.

Jack


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## midluk (Apr 13, 2017)

*Re: Firmware Version 1.0.4 is out with important changes in Finnish translation*



TudorD said:


> Changes in the Firmware
> Firmware Version 1.0.4 incorporates the following fixes and improvements:
> 
> 1. Fixes a phenomenon in which a red-colored area may appear at the bottom-center of a captured image when shooting in bulb mode or during a long exposure.
> ...


First thought this might be a joke, but it is real.
Didn't have any of the fixed problems, but I have read reports about problems with some SanDisk SD cards. I guess these should be fixed now.
I'm wondering how something like problem 1 can exist in the first place…


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 13, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Mr. Milo said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.
> ...


You will not find ONE high end video camera without an AA filter. For stills it maybe OK but for video and certain materials its a no no currently.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 19, 2017)

Well i'm thinking I may have to eat crow on this one after looking at what the A9 has to offer.

canon has to pull out some pretty good stuff here.

the Question is.. how much is this going to hurt Nikon. the controls look very nikonish.


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## romanr74 (Apr 19, 2017)

i start to believe that canon just cannot do any better


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## transpo1 (Apr 19, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Well i'm thinking I may have to eat crow on this one after looking at what the A9 has to offer.
> 
> canon has to pull out some pretty good stuff here.
> 
> the Question is.. how much is this going to hurt Nikon. the controls look very nikonish.



We'll be waiting  With or without the firmware update. 

The Sony looks great from a stills perspective but no real video improvements so I was disappointed with it in that regard. The autofocus with Canon lenses via Metabones will be vastly improved.


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## Mikehit (Apr 19, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> The autofocus with Canon lenses via Metabones will be vastly improved.




based on what...?


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## transpo1 (Apr 19, 2017)

romanr74 said:


> i start to believe that canon just cannot do any better



I think they can, it's just a matter of: are they *willing* to cannibalize their Cinema EOS line. As Steve Jobs knew, you have to cannibalize yourself or _eventually_ someone else will. 

It's easy when you are #1 to sit back and not push the envelope, but they need to do something. Maybe they are trying to leapfrog Sony with 8K capability but if we use their track record as a model, this is unlikely.

We'll know more in a few days, in any case.


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## romanr74 (Apr 19, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > i start to believe that canon just cannot do any better
> ...



i'm not only meaning video


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## transpo1 (Apr 19, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > The autofocus with Canon lenses via Metabones will be vastly improved.
> ...



The Sony A6500 focuses as fast or faster with Metabones Speedbooster than my 5DIII, so if this camera is anywhere near that fast (should be faster), it will work great. I'm talking about stills, not video.


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## transpo1 (Apr 19, 2017)

romanr74 said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > romanr74 said:
> ...



You've got me there- they seem to be way behind in both ways, although I still prefer their products, given equal specs. 

It's time for them to start taking risks again.


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## Mikehit (Apr 19, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



So you go from saying 'if...' to 'will be..' based on....what exactly?


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## transpo1 (Apr 19, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



I'm not a huge fan of Sony cameras in general but have you ever used an A6500 with a Metabones? The phase detect autofocus is pretty fast. And I'm just guessing that if Sony's releasing a $4500 camera with around 700 phase detection points (more than the A6500 albeit with a FF sensor), that it would equal or beat their $1400 APS-C camera. 

Again, I'm comparing this not to a 1DXII or even a 5DIV but to a 5DIII, so keep that in mind, but I'm guessing it's comparable or better. But I'd love to read a comparison to a 1DXII once the Sony comes out. 

You can read the press release for yourself if you want further info.


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## Mikehit (Apr 19, 2017)

I have micro four-thirds cameras that focus faster than my 7D2 and the speed of it is noticeable. But does it increase the chance of getting the timing right? Not in my experience. 
Does faster focus acquisition make them better than Canon DSLR in focus tracking? Not that I have found. 

I have never used a metabones adapter but it would be interesting to hear (in your experience) what aspects of AF the Sony+metabones beats the 5DIII - accuracy/repeatability of focus, speed of focus, tracking moving subjects....


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## transpo1 (Apr 20, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> I have micro four-thirds cameras that focus faster than my 7D2 and the speed of it is noticeable. But does it increase the chance of getting the timing right? Not in my experience.
> Does faster focus acquisition make them better than Canon DSLR in focus tracking? Not that I have found.
> 
> I have never used a metabones adapter but it would be interesting to hear (in your experience) what aspects of AF the Sony+metabones beats the 5DIII - accuracy/repeatability of focus, speed of focus, tracking moving subjects....



I was talking about speed and accuracy of AF on stationary objects. Haven't done much tracking of moving subjects with it but that would be a good test. 

What M4/3 camera do you own?


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## luftweg (Apr 20, 2017)

The EOS 1DX Mark II had sure BETTER get the same firmware update!..... The 1DXii is much better suited to video than the 5Div, because it has the CFast slot, faster processing, better size for heat removal. It currently has the 60fps in 4K, and has far reduced rolling shutter effects.....

Actually, I think the rumored update above, for the 5Div might be a little ambitious... People should push for the 1DXii to get that stuff, because it can actually handle it....


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 20, 2017)

luftweg said:


> The EOS 1DX Mark II had sure BETTER get the same firmware update!..... The 1DXii is much better suited to video than the 5Div, because it has the CFast slot, faster processing, better size for heat removal. It currently has the 60fps in 4K, and has far reduced rolling shutter effects.....
> 
> Actually, I think the rumored update above, for the 5Div might be a little ambitious... People should push for the 1DXii to get that stuff, because it can actually handle it....



I have contacted Canon Canada a number of times regarding suggested mods for the 1DX2 and the response was that they are passed on and appreciated, if you can believe that.

I've been trying to persuade them to modify the last photo shot display format so it will move backward in a sequence using the wheel without first having to hit the shutter button. 

Jack


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## Mikehit (Apr 20, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> I was talking about speed and accuracy of AF on stationary objects. Haven't done much tracking of moving subjects with it but that would be a good test.
> 
> What M4/3 camera do you own?



I have Panasonic Gx7 and Olympus E-M5 - although the AF is quicker it does not make a difference in practice compared to the 7D2. As for accuracy I am happy with my DSLRs as well. 
The only practical difference for me is that the spread of AF points in MFT covers virtually the whole sensor.


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## bsbeamer (Apr 20, 2017)

The actual announcement from Canon is for LOG feature to be added for $100 in July. No mentions of crop factor changes or additional features.

Maybe they will show a 5DC at NAB?


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## transpo1 (Apr 20, 2017)

bsbeamer said:


> The actual announcement from Canon is for LOG feature to be added for $100 in July. No mentions of crop factor changes or additional features.
> 
> Maybe they will show a 5DC at NAB?



One can always dream- but I'm afraid that with Canon, it's just a dream


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