# Canon Financials for Q3 2018. Sales down, outlook good.



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 29, 2018)

> Last week Canon released their financials for Q3 of 2018, and it wasn’t the best of quarters for the company. Canon claims that sales were lower than expected as consumers were waiting for Canon’s full frame mirrorless announcement before purchasing other cameras and lenses.
> Additionally, the successive announcements made by manufacturers, including Canon, of entering the full-frame mirrorless camera market has led to temporary restrained buying of advanced-amateur models. Compared to the same period last year, during which we launched two new models, our sales declined by 22.4% in the third quarter.
> There are some positives, as the Canon EOS M50 continues to be a great seller for Canon and the EOS M lineup.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## KirkD (Oct 29, 2018)

"our sales declined by 22.4% in the third quarter." Precisely as I predicted several months ago due to Sony's lead in mirrorless cameras. I believe, however, that will change significantly over the next two quarters as Canon releases or announces more cameras and lenses in the R series. I've already got an EOS R (to replace my 6D), and plan to get the pro-level R when it becomes available. And if the R series lenses continue to be as impressive as the first few, I can see Canon's market share significantly improving over the next two years. I almost bailed to Sony, but now I'm very glad I waited.


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## ritholtz (Oct 29, 2018)

Need M50 with big discount printer MIR. Unfortunately they are clearing out M5 and M6. No big discount on M50.


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## Go Wild (Oct 29, 2018)

KirkD said:


> "our sales declined by 22.4% in the third quarter." Precisely as I predicted several months ago due to Sony's lead in mirrorless cameras. I believe, however, that will change significantly over the next two quarters as Canon releases or announces more cameras and lenses in the R series. I've already got an EOS R (to replace my 6D), and plan to get the pro-level R when it becomes available. And if the R series lenses continue to be as impressive as the first few, I can see Canon's market share significantly improving over the next two years. I almost bailed to Sony, but now I'm very glad I waited.



Yep! I bought the Sony A7r3 to work together with my 1dxmkII. If Canon makes a good pro R body i will switch again and sell the Sony body. Really angry that Canon took so long to look at the market...Well..but the R series looks promising and reaally liked the new RF sistem and the adapters! So please Canon DO NOT make more mistakes and give me one R body that makes Sony blush wiht shame!!


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## Adelino (Oct 29, 2018)

22% drop is sales is pretty huge. This is positive for consumers, it portends a drop in price for the holiday season and Canon will think twice about market segmentation, now is not the time to worry about product cannibalization but of regaining technical superiority especially in regards to features and pricing.


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## gmon750 (Oct 29, 2018)

KirkD said:


> "our sales declined by 22.4% in the third quarter." Precisely as I predicted several months ago due to Sony's lead in mirrorless cameras. I believe, however, that will change significantly over the next two quarters as Canon releases or announces more cameras and lenses in the R series. I've already got an EOS R (to replace my 6D), and plan to get the pro-level R when it becomes available. And if the R series lenses continue to be as impressive as the first few, I can see Canon's market share significantly improving over the next two years. I almost bailed to Sony, but now I'm very glad I waited.



Canon’s drop is due to people waiting to see what they do in the mirrorless front. Has nothing to do with Sony. Heck, I was ready to buy a 5DM4 to add to my 5DM3 but held off. I’m sure many were in similar positions.

Now, I’m just going to wait to see what Canon does with a “pro” version. Their R lenses are incredible, and puts Sony’s lenses to shame. 

My bet is a pro body is right around the corner and coupled with their awesom lenses, it will leave the competition in the dust. It’s worth waiting for me.


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## docsmith (Oct 29, 2018)

So, Canon is telling its investors that Nikon and Canon essentially froze the market as people waited for the new product.

While that likely has merit, I would also argue it was about relatively new products. I am seeing 4 camera body announcements before Q3 2017 (77D, T7i, SL2, and 6DII). 2018, I am seeing T7, 400D, and M50 before the EOS-R was announced. Not only fewer cameras, but lower price point cameras.

That'll get you a 22% drop as well. Had they released a 7DIII, 5Ds II, etc.....probably wouldn't have seen the same drop.


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## mirage (Oct 29, 2018)

hehehe, people like us here holding off buying anything - mainly due to lack of clear communication by Canon. A clear, published roadmap for EOS R - bodies and RF lenses - would definitely be in Canon's own best interest. 

Plus total slack at the Rebel and xxD mirrorslapper end. Even n00bs understand that M50 gives them better functionality in a more compact package for only 500 bucks. LoL.

And 7D II long in the tooth, not competitive with Nikon D500. 

Not surprised to see -22%. I like it. Might sound an alarm loud enough to be even heard in their octagenarian board room.


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## aceflibble (Oct 29, 2018)

This drop is nothing to read into. It was predicted well ahead of time and is exactly in line with what analysts thought would happen to the industry. Sales would drop as people waited to see what Canon and Nikon would deliver, and it would be/will be a while before they pick back up again as people 1) save up to buy whole new systems and/or 2) wait to see what other companies do in response.

People wanted to see what the R would be and are still mostly waiting to try demo units for themselves, and wait on the lens line to be more fleshed out.
People wanted to see what the Z would be and are still mostly waiting to try demo units for themselves, and wait on the lens line to be more fleshed out.
People wanted to see what the X-T3 would be and are still mostly waiting to try demo units for themselves.
People wanted to see just whateverthehell it was Panasonic, Leica, and Zeiss were going to do.
People are still waiting to see what Pentax's plan for the next few years is.
There are the very real possibilities of the 90D, 7DmkIII, α7sIII, X-H2, and even α7RIV all coming within the next 12 months.
There's already strong word there will be more R bodies being announced within the next 6 months and more Z bodies in the next 12 months.
Not everyone has the money to rush out and buy these things instantly, and of course many people wait for new releases to then buy the previous version second hand, which aren't sales that show up in manufacturers' reports.

So going down 22% is nothing.


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## JonSnow (Oct 29, 2018)

waiting waiting waiting..... canon is still not there with the EOS R for my needs.
so i wait another 6 month for the pro model.

that model will probably fix the video issues..... and (with my luck with canon) be a fast 24 MP camera. 

while i am waiting for a mirrorless camera from canon that has features of the D850 combined with a pro mirrorless.

high megapixel (40+), silent shutter, good eye focusing (aka better than in the EOS R) , great AF with good tracking, decent speed 8-10 fps, better DR, no stupid multibar but a joystick...

and while i wait for this camera i will not even buy new lenses.
because i don´t want to buy more EF lenses when i may switch completely to the RF mount.

i just sold my old 100-400mm and would buy the new model... if there was no new mount.
but so i delay any purchases.


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## tomri (Oct 29, 2018)

> as consumers were waiting for Canon’s full frame mirrorless announcement before purchasing other cameras and lenses.
Unfortunately I will have to wait a bit longer as prices are too high and it is not clear where the market is headed. I do believe that the 1700,- for the R body as originally rumored here was actually a more realistic price.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 29, 2018)

Sales are down for Canon slightly and they have lowered overall projections. They have a ~50% markup over sales before overhead costs. Those costs seem too high, but they still have a predicted 6.3% bottom line.

Inventory tells the story pretty well. Canon has curtailed shipments of cameras due to slow sales and high inventory. Its likely that production has shifted to the new Mirrorless models that will be announced, as well as tooling up for more RF lenses.

If inventory does not drop, we will see some good prices before December 31 (End of Fiscal Year). Canon wants profits to grow this year, and they can put that excess inventory into the bottom line by having sales. They do this every year, but with high inventory, look for bigger price cuts.


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## The Fat Fish (Oct 29, 2018)

The issue is the EOS R is the least competitive camera released this year. The continued crippling of video isn't filling that group of users with faith in the future of the company.

As a new product lineup the camera should have been impressive as the lenses. Sadly, it wasn't even close.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 29, 2018)

The Fat Fish said:


> The issue is the EOS R is the least competitive camera released this year. The continued crippling of video isn't filling that group of users with faith in the future of the company.
> 
> As a new product lineup the camera should have been impressive as the lenses. Sadly, it wasn't even close.


Its a stills camera with video, not a video camera. Thats been Canon's philosophy, primarily due to demand from photographers.

If a person is looking for cinema quality video, they are not going to find it in a $2200 stills camera from Canon.

Sony is the Industry leader in Video, and does put more into their cameras. Video has always been a strong point for them, Canon is moving up in the video world, but thru a separate line of cameras.

I haven't bothered to try the Video in my R, I bought it as a stills camera that does video in the rare event that I want some. 

While I know that some want Canon to change their philosophy, they are not likely to change what works for them. They continue to gain market share, every year, so they feel they are doing it right.


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## ethanz (Oct 29, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Sales are down for Canon slightly and they have lowered overall projections. They have a ~50% markup over sales before overhead costs. Those costs seem too high, but they still have a predicted 6.3% bottom line.
> 
> Inventory tells the story pretty well. Canon has curtailed shipments of cameras due to slow sales and high inventory. Its likely that production has shifted to the new Mirrorless models that will be announced, as well as tooling up for more RF lenses.
> 
> If inventory does not drop, we will see some good prices before December 31 (End of Fiscal Year). Canon wants profits to grow this year, and they can put that excess inventory into the bottom line by having sales. They do this every year, but with high inventory, look for bigger price cuts.



Thanks for the graphics Spokane. I think you are correct. 
Some of the phrases they use lead me to believe they will be aggressive.


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## MEAllred (Oct 29, 2018)

KirkD said:


> "our sales declined by 22.4% in the third quarter." Precisely as I predicted several months ago due to Sony's lead in mirrorless cameras. I believe, however, that will change significantly over the next two quarters as Canon releases or announces more cameras and lenses in the R series. I've already got an EOS R (to replace my 6D), and plan to get the pro-level R when it becomes available. And if the R series lenses continue to be as impressive as the first few, I can see Canon's market share significantly improving over the next two years. I almost bailed to Sony, but now I'm very glad I waited.



Roy Hunte - You should bail to Sony check out the latest Google trends
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=sony a7iii,nikon z6,canon eos r The EOS R is already being forgotten.


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## mirage (Oct 29, 2018)

"a pause in entry-class DSLR purchasing". LOL! Bye bye Rebels, xxD, EF-S! Crop mirrorslapper sales are hitting rock bottom. NOT because of EOS R launch or waiting for it (largely different target groups). It is because of the first decent, compact and very affordable Canon mirrorfree camera ... EOS M50.


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## MEAllred (Oct 29, 2018)

BTW - For you financial geniuses who've commented already about Canon's 22% decline being "ok"/ "This drop is nothing to read into. It was predicted well ahead of time" are as dumb as the day is long. People at Canon lose their jobs over this kind of financial performance. This is the big boy corporate world. This decline is directly attributable to Sony and Canons poor product decisions along with the general market decline. They outpaced the market in shrinking  People clearly deserve to be fired.


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## Otara (Oct 29, 2018)

Its about phones big picture wise.


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## The Fat Fish (Oct 29, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its a stills camera with video, not a video camera. Thats been Canon's philosophy, primarily due to demand from photographers.
> 
> If a person is looking for cinema quality video, they are not going to find it in a $2200 stills camera from Canon.



But why not? It can be found in almost every other big brands $2200 camera.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Sony is the Industry leader in Video, and does put more into their cameras. Video has always been a strong point for them, Canon is moving up in the video world, but thru a separate line of cameras.



It's a shame, I invested in Canon back in the day of the 550D and 5DII because of their video advantage. Now 10 years on and they have made no noticeable progress. That's a huge disappointment.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I haven't bothered to try the Video in my R, I bought it as a stills camera that does video in the rare event that I want some.



I had a play with it at a hands on day last week. It's infuriating for someone like myself who is a hybrid shooter and often switch from photo to video in a second or two.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> While I know that some want Canon to change their philosophy, they are not likely to change what works for them. They continue to gain market share, every year, so they feel they are doing it right.



I'm not so sure, I think they will be forced the change. It won't be an overnight change but it will happen.


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## Woody (Oct 29, 2018)

MEAllred said:


> This decline is directly attributable to Sony and Canons poor product decisions along with the general market decline.



Anyone worked out Canon's worldwide market shares for the first 3Q of 2018?


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## glness (Oct 29, 2018)

I was one of the Canon photographers who said I wasn't going to buy anything until I saw what Canon's plans were for FF mirrorless. Apparently, I wasn't alone with this thought. While the R series looks promising, I'm still not going to buy any Canon products until I see what pro options (bodies and lenses (including super-telephotos)) will be available for the R mount. Their initial R lens offerings were encouraging, but the first R body was underwhelming for my needs: wildlife, action photography, and landscapes. Canon has been dragging their feet, and my buying plans are no longer going to be based on rumors and hope. I will buy based on what's available compared to the competition and when. If Canon wants to improve quarterly sales results, I will help them if they make great, competitive bodies and lenses available in the R mount sooner rather than later.


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## tmroper (Oct 30, 2018)

I for one will be waiting a little longer to buy a FF mirrorless, until the Panasonic comes out. I've tried the EOS R for a weekend, and while it's good, it's not great. Not great includes the ergonomics, mostly the odd placement of the wheels and the AF button--so annoying, when the 5D has things placed so well. And then there's the touch screen functionality, which seems rather rudimentary (better than Sony and Nikon at least, though). You can't even resize the focus box with your fingers, and "dragging" the box is more laggy than my Lumix. It just doesn't seem like Canon gave it 110%, especially when even the cheap Lumix cameras seem to have more in the way of usability.


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## Ozarker (Oct 30, 2018)

KirkD said:


> "our sales declined by 22.4% in the third quarter." Precisely as I predicted several months ago due to Sony's lead in mirrorless cameras. I believe, however, that will change significantly over the next two quarters as Canon releases or announces more cameras and lenses in the R series. I've already got an EOS R (to replace my 6D), and plan to get the pro-level R when it becomes available. And if the R series lenses continue to be as impressive as the first few, I can see Canon's market share significantly improving over the next two years. I almost bailed to Sony, but now I'm very glad I waited.


Sony does not lead in mirrorless. IN the U.S. FF market... yes. Because there was no competition. Mirrorless sales overall and in all markets? Not even close. https://photorumors.com/2018/08/01/...ket-share-latest-nikkei-bcn-and-cipa-reports/


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## Ozarker (Oct 30, 2018)

Woody said:


> Anyone worked out Canon's worldwide market shares for the first 3Q of 2018?


https://photorumors.com/2018/08/01/...ket-share-latest-nikkei-bcn-and-cipa-reports/


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## Isaacheus (Oct 30, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its a stills camera with video, not a video camera. Thats been Canon's philosophy, primarily due to demand from photographers.
> 
> If a person is looking for cinema quality video, they are not going to find it in a $2200 stills camera from Canon.
> 
> ...



While I agree, I do wonder if it being seen as just a stills camera will limit the appeal in the system, at least until more models are released. I know I look at it and don't see many benefits VS say the z6. 

The R lens system looks really promising, don't get me wrong, it's just the Canon way of doing things starts to look limiting when you look at the other options too.


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## Isaacheus (Oct 30, 2018)

More importantly though, what are the EF lens sales like for the quarter? That might be another way of getting an idea on the markets.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 30, 2018)

Isaacheus said:


> More importantly though, what are the EF lens sales like for the quarter? That might be another way of getting an idea on the markets.



They changed their method of displaying sales figures, so I could not see a way to track lens sales, apparently they are lumped together.


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## Isaacheus (Oct 30, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> They changed their method of displaying sales figures, so I could not see a way to track lens sales, apparently they are lumped together.


Ah OK, I was hoping to be able to see if it was just bodies (people waiting for the mirrorless) or lenses too (which admittedly wouldn't tell us much as that could be for more reasons)


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## justaCanonuser (Oct 30, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its a stills camera with video, not a video camera. Thats been Canon's philosophy, primarily due to demand from photographers.
> 
> If a person is looking for cinema quality video, they are not going to find it in a $2200 stills camera from Canon.
> 
> Sony is the Industry leader in Video, and does put more into their cameras. Video has always been a strong point for them, Canon is moving up in the video world, but thru a separate line of cameras.


Well, some people (like me) may remember that your statement wouldn't have been true about 10 yrs ago. Canon really revolutionized the HD video market back then with the 5D Mk II. But, unfortunately for all videographers amongst the majority of Canon users, Canon came up with their new Cinema EOS series in 2011. Since then, they are anxious about cannbalizing this high-priced pro series, so they started to cripple the video technology of their FF DSLRs, and now they do the same with their R series. The 1DX series proves that a lack of video technology isn't the bottleneck. I do not expect Canon to change that philosophy with a "pro R" model as long as they hope they can beat Sony in the ML market without giving their customers too much food for their money. They will only change their minds if this strategy turns out to be not successful.

As a stills photographer (mostly), I can happily stick with the Canon systems, in particular because they really make high quality lenses. If I'd focus mostly on video and wanted a ML, I'd change to Sony and adapt Canon lenses, despite the new R series.


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## MEAllred (Oct 31, 2018)

Hmmm, Sony just posted Quarterly Results - For Imaging they reported a GAIN of 7% while canon posted a 22% decline! Yikes...


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## ethanz (Oct 31, 2018)

MEAllred said:


> Hmmm, Sony just posted Quarterly Results - For Imaging they reported a GAIN of 7% while canon posted a 22% decline! Yikes...



Can you link that please? It would be interesting to read all the details.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 31, 2018)

Here is the link. 7%? 

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/archive.html

Sony had a strong 2nd quarter due to gaming.

In the imaging area, they predict a 3.7% increase in revenue for FY 2018 over the previous year, and the 2nd quarter revenue increase over a year ago is 5%.


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## Woody (Nov 1, 2018)

CIPA numbers for the first 3Q of 2018 are out. Canon's market shares for ILC over the first 3Q of 2018 is 41.6%. Although I am sure they are still no. 1, this represents a decline of what they used to achieve in 2016 and 2017.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 1, 2018)

Woody said:


> CIPA numbers for the first 3Q of 2018 are out. Canon's market shares for ILC over the first 3Q of 2018 is 41.6%. Although I am sure they are still no. 1, this represents a decline of what they used to achieve in 2016 and 2017.




Are you sure? As far as I know, CIPA only deals with total camera shipments and manufacturing numbers and does not reveal manufacturer market shares.

There are others like Nikkei who estimate market shares based on figures from selected camera sellers.


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## Woody (Nov 1, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> There are others like Nikkei who estimate market shares based on figures from selected camera sellers.



While what you said is true (CIPA figures are based on shipment whereas Canon provided sales numbers), there is a correlation between the 2. The link you gave is correct only for the first 2 quarters of 2018. There is a steep decline in Canon's market shares in Q3. I believe this may be attributed to poor sales of DSLRs and Canon has some serious catching-up to do for their MILCs. Expect faster MILC roll outs and huge discounts from Canon in Q4 2018.


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