# New to photography.



## Salah Yousef (Feb 11, 2016)

So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )

I bought it with 18-55mm lens
Later on I bought 50mm f/1.8 II lens
I also have a tripod.

I hardly touched the camera since 2014. I even forgot how to use it's menu and buttons.

My friend who happens to be photographer helped me today to remember what ISO, Aperture, Shutter speed are used for. My main goal is to just enjoy my time photographing whatever is in my mind. I like photographing animals, landscapes, astrophotography, nature and black & white photos.

My questions are:-
Are photography schools/courses worth it or should I just learn online and self teach myself ?
Should I improve my equipment or should I stick to my current equipment till I teach myself more and improve ?
Should I atleast buy better lens ? I'm not good in knowing differences of lenses buy I'm teaching myself and Googling.

My budget is 2000 USD however soon as I get a job ( that's in Oct 2016 ) my budget will be much higher.


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## Don Haines (Feb 11, 2016)

Saloooh91 said:


> So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )
> 
> I bought it with 18-55mm lens
> Later on I bought 50mm f/1.8 II lens
> ...


My recommendation would be to find a local camera club.... that is a great way to learn and be exposed to new things....

Don't get obsessed with gear. It takes a while before it becomes a limitation.

Don't buy into this Canon/Nikon/Sony hysteria.... they are all good.

The number one thing you can do, and will have the maximum impact on your photography, is to shoot in RAW format and learn to use the editing software that came with your camera.... and it's FREE!!!!


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## slclick (Feb 12, 2016)

As stated above, education, is key. Be it, community college, online, seminars whatnot. Personally I prefer in person so you can interact with others who have recently or currently are at a similar level of skill to compare notes and be of assistance to each other. Many times it's been said, shoot in the beginning with one lens, such as a 35mm or 50mm and learn to compose, frame, sneaker zoom, explore various depths of field and learn it well with that one general piece of glass which will transfer to other focal lengths and aperture ranges. Learning to capture and manipulate (and understand) light is a wonderful thing, it's both art and science.


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## NancyP (Feb 16, 2016)

Keep and use what you already have - it's fine for learning. 
As for what next, it depends on how you like to learn. 
1. course at local community college or other adult education venue
2. internet videos and websites (try "Cambridge in Colour" http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/ The site has very clear basic explanations)
3. basic books on photography and on your choice of processing software, likely DPP (that came free with the camera) - that includes manuals
4. camera clubs often have beginners' clinics and classes
and 
5. Just Play Around With The Camera.
You can't hurt it, beyond a few simple precautions in the manual. You don't like the shot? Erase it. This isn't like the film days, when each shot cost a measurable amount. You read about aperture effect, shutter effect, ISO effect? Then go and photo "anything", varying each item (f/stop, shutter speed, ISO) and prove to yourself equivalent exposures, see how different shutter speeds stop (or don't) different types of motion, take a landscape photo at the wide-open aperture (usually f/3.5 or so for kit lenses) and f/11, compare depth of field.
Learn where to find the information about the individual shot - the lens, aperture, shutter speed, ISO, and lots of other things are found in a metafile called "EXIF" that is attached to the individual photo. So you no longer have to keep a pen and paper record of each shot, the camera will do that for you - great for learning.

I like experimenting. It's a great way to learn, if you are the sort who likes to read a book/article and then try IRL.


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## Valvebounce (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi Saloooh91. 
I agree with the recommendation to join a club, an alternative if you don't like clubs or can't join for whatever reason, is to find a photography buddy, a relative, friend or neighbour who is in to photography. 
I started with a neighbour, walking along a river looking for photo opportunities and having my wife bring us home after her Zumba class, then a friend (from our car club) joined in, and now I have uncle in law joining us too since his wife passed away. 
Another idea is to get some quick reference cards, one of my little group gets flustered when subjects change, I just bought him a magazine (Digital Camera) that has cards with basic settings and techniques for various scenarios, they should be close enough to get usable shots with just minor adjustments to a setting or two, I anticipate this reducing the stress he feels whilst trying to work out settings for unexpected events. I'm sure it would be possible to find something similar on the internet or maybe make your own if you think it would help. 

Cheers, Graham.


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## monkey44 (Feb 16, 2016)

When you start playing with ISO, aperture, Shutter speed, etc - you will notice on your shots it will tell you the settings you shot at under"right click" "properties".

A very good thing to do is shoot some practice shots at a stationary target (Tree, bush, flower, etc) and change settings, then compare the differences. It gives you an idea how these setting effect an image.

Then, when you get comfortable with stationary targets, try the same thing on moving targets, cats, dogs, cars, kids, and see what changes when you adjust settings... 

I found it best to print the shot, then set them side by side with the setting written on it, or on a paper beside it so you can compare visually instead of switching screens in a PC..

I suggest you learn your camera first, what all the basic dials and settings mean, then learn how to use it.


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## FTb-n (Feb 16, 2016)

Definitely learn the camera first. I can envision a telephoto zoom might be your next purchase, but waiting until you feel more comfortable with your camera will help you in decided if and which one to get. Plus, there may be a new one released soon that may fit your need.

The 50 f1.8 is a great lens on your crop body for portraits and candids (among other subjects). With a relatively large aperture, it offers the benefit of learning how to control depth of field. Get very comfortable using this lens.

Study the basics at this stage -- not gear. Wait until your current gear is holding you back before looking for new gear. But, make sure it's the gear holding you back and not your lack of understanding how to use it. This will help avoid buying gear that ends up collecting dust.


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## tolusina (Feb 16, 2016)

Your friend did you well discussing ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed with you. 
Those three are THE essential basics of exposure, together they are often known as 'The Exposure Triangle'.
As there are three variables, it's often hard at first to fully wrap one's head around the concepts.
Through no fault of your friend's nor yours, just due to the different ways humans think and learn, you may not yet feel fully confident in your grasp of the concepts.
If this is the case, google "Exposure Basics", you'll find a plethora of tutorials on the topic. Start reading any, if you find it confusing, try another. For certain there are many you can find that speak to your way of thought and WILL give you the AHA! moment you need. Once you fully grasp the exposure triangle, few cameras will ever intimidate you for the rest of your life.
- - -
Once you've got exposure down pat, get out and shoot. Shoot anything and everything that catches your eye, be especially mindful of horizons and background objects.

Through the finder, select the view you want to capture, what to include, what to exclude. MOVE side to side, back and forth (often known as 'Zooming with your feet'), kneel and stretch, climb on tables, rocks, whatever to adjust your viewpoint to taste.

My personal lens preference has reverted back to the more or less 'natural' view of a 50mm on full frame. While 50mm on your crop camera will be a bit narrower than 'natural', I'm going to suggest it anyway, especially since you have one in hand.
I'd shoot only 50mm for a couple thousand photos (shouldn't take long), then venture out with your zoom, get a feel for that. From there you can guesstimate what other focal lengths might appeal to your specific tastes, borrow from a friend or rent to try what you wish.

There are lots and lots of free online resources, Nancy P posted http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/ for one. 
Search youtube for Photoshop, Lightroom, Zooms, lighting (oh, Strobist), beginning and advanced photography, many will lead you in all sorts of other directions, follow what piques your interests.

With the free resources of the internet, you should be able to pretty much self educate. 
Community College courses are economical, camera stores occasionally offer presentations.

SHOOT RAW!!
It may be a while before you can realize the benefits and power of shooting RAW, I suggest you shoot both RAW and large/fine jpg. 
You'll have the easy to work with jpgs from the beginning, as you learn RAW processing you'll be able to re-visit earlier shots and try magic on them.
Yup, buffers and memory cards will fill much faster shooting RAW + jpg, I think it a worthwhile compromise.


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## tpatana (Feb 16, 2016)

tolusina said:


> s.
> 
> SHOOT RAW!!
> It may be a while before you can realize the benefits and power of shooting RAW, I suggest you shoot both RAW and large/fine jpg.
> ...



Remembering my early days, I'd say ease into raw as you progress. That's good advice to shoot both raw+jpeg if that's option for you. If you're already learning so much on the other stuff, adding raw worlflow on top of that can be extra frustrating. Or at least for me it was. So maybe first get comfortable with all the other tips given here, and when those start to work out, then also skip the jpeg and start working on raws.


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## tolusina (Feb 16, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Remembering my early days, I'd say ease into raw as you progress. That's good advice to shoot both raw+jpeg if that's option for you. If you're already learning so much on the other stuff, adding raw worlflow on top of that can be extra frustrating. Or at least for me it was. So maybe first get comfortable with all the other tips given here, and when those start to work out, then also skip the jpeg and start working on raws.


Indeed.
Expecting to start at zero and jump into a RAW workflow is a pretty extreme expectation.
Often, beginner's luck will get a few outstanding and memorable captures.
Being able to revisit those gems later in RAW is priceless, impossible without the RAWs.


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## AlanF (Feb 16, 2016)

tolusina said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > Remembering my early days, I'd say ease into raw as you progress. That's good advice to shoot both raw+jpeg if that's option for you. If you're already learning so much on the other stuff, adding raw worlflow on top of that can be extra frustrating. Or at least for me it was. So maybe first get comfortable with all the other tips given here, and when those start to work out, then also skip the jpeg and start working on raws.
> ...



That's right - give the OP a break! Let him start as simply as possible, and then work up to using RAW when he has mastered the basics. After all, Ken Rockwell hasn't got further than using only jpegs.


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## pj1974 (Feb 16, 2016)

Some great advice given above by several members of this forum... well done team!

We (CR, the world, etc!) need more of this - positive, helpful, upbuilding stuff. 8)

I will just add, that over 15 years ago I found myself in the same situation (new to digital photography) and some of the earlier online digital forums helped me a lot... today there are so many more resources.

Experiment. Practice. Learn one photo genre at a time, to an intermediate level, then try something new (to keep the interest).

Shoot JPEG and RAW (just use JPEG to start, then you can go back and experiment / see the difference RAW gives). 

Best wishes,

Paul


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## Cory (Feb 16, 2016)

I found the camera-specific training DVDs at http://www.michaelthementor.com/store/ to be enormously helpful and critical in helping to get me off on the right foot. After that there's free videos/instruction on all things photography. For the past 5 years I've been studying almost every day with internet search, this site and dpreview.com my go-to resources. Also, I have 3x5 cards with different shooting scenarios on them that I refer to when doing something specific - fireworks, sunsets, running, etc.


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 16, 2016)

It's all been said very well already several times over so I'll keep it short and add a thing or two...

- Don't buy gear yet. Use what you have and slowly learn what that gear will do and what items you may want to get later.
- Use the camera. It's a tool for your creativity. Take it with you. Don't avoid taking it to keep it clean. Get it worn and dirty as you take thousands of images.
- Make it relevant. Offer your "services" free to family, friends, volunteer groups at church or other low pressure positive environments. This puts a little bit of "pro" expectations of yourself in the shooting and forces you to "work" on your passion, push your limits/boundaries and "produce" results. In essence, the workflow becomes habit.
- Go to Half Price Books or other used book stores and browse the old photography books. It's very interesting and nostalgic to see what there is to learn and observe with the old school film world. It also helps to appreciate just how much the current technology helps you learn/work faster but also how it's NOT about the technology!!
- I agree that Scott Kelby is a good teacher. Consider these books from Mr. Kelby. They are one page tips that make a big difference.
http://www.amazon.com/Scott-Kelbys-Digital-Photography-Boxed/dp/0133988066/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1455624455&sr=8-5&keywords=scott+kelby
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Digital-Photography-step---step/dp/0134385128/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455624455&sr=8-1&keywords=scott+kelby

Remember - You are capturing light with a box and a tube full of glass. You the photographer can take the same image a million times and it can/will be different every time. The variables are endless. Just think about what you want the image to look like as you shoot and adjust the variables until you get what you want. Does the image tell a story, convey a feeling or create a historical record? Or is it just your cat?

Give yourself "assignments". You could go to http://digital-photography-school.com/ and they can email you a different "assignment" each weekend on what challenge to take on.

Please share with us how you are doing. It's a favorite topic here to see how people improve, progress and learn.


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## rcarca (Feb 16, 2016)

When I started out I discovered that you should only buy new kit when you have found that you needed it - at least twice. Otherwise you will have a cupboard full of kit you never use.

Others have mentioned loads of reference material. One that you might like to look at is http://www.eos-magazine-forum.com. It is the friendliest forum in the world with lots of help when you need it - none of the photographer bitchiness that you find on many forums.

Good luck and enjoy!


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## Daan Stam (Feb 16, 2016)

hey salooh i learned pretty much everything i know about photography on the internet you can find tutorials about everything some people i follow are dave dugdale , matt granger, chase jarvis, dslr video shooter ,dslrguide,film riot,glenn bartley,griffin hammond,jared polin,karl taylor,mike browne,neumann films,the snap chick,tony northrup some of those have gone a little quiet but

and for gear i would buy the 18-135 is stm for a starter it is way better than the 18-55 and then see what you would like to have more


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## Hector1970 (Feb 16, 2016)

Echoing others I'd highly recommend joining a club.
It's the cheapest way to get better.
You meet lots of new people along the way who will guide and inspire you.
It will drag you to places you've never seen.
It will improve your composition and way of looking at the world.
Keep using the same gear until you reach a limitation on what you want to photograph.

My advice on buying gear is to save up and buy something good rather than many cheap things.
Second hand if possible is a good way to go too.
Prime lens like the 50mm 1.8 are a good way to get into more creative moody photography.

Youtube and the many free websites are a great source of learning about photography.

My last advice is to enjoy the journey.


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## kaswindell (Feb 16, 2016)

Welcome to the world of photography!

I have to echo what others have said here - your gear is sufficient to learn, worry about upgrading when you find that it limits you, not before.

Whether to take classes, or learn online really depends on how you learn best. Back when I was learning there was no online, but magazines filled the same niche, and I devoured everything I could find. I was also involved with others who helped me learn and pushed me to improve when I was in college, studying a subject other than photography. I highly recommend you join a group/club that allows interaction with others with interest in photography, it can really help.

Be sure that even if you shoot JPEG, shoot RAW. The biggest mistake when I transitioned from film to digital was only shooting JPEG since I didn't know how to use editing software (some might argue that I still don't ;-) ). I have a number of digital images that while good, probably could be better if I had the flexibility to process the RAW file today.

Finally, don't worry about making mistakes, because you will. Photos that you love today will disappoint you in the future as your skill improves. Others will still make you happy. And have fun.


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## monkey44 (Feb 17, 2016)

I agree - shoot the RAW and save the best ones until you figure out how to process RAW ...

I have numerous shots from years ago that I wish now I had RAW only to get the max out of it. At the time, I had no knowledge or use for the RAW files -- it costs nothing but storage, and is worth it for good shots you can process when you gain experience.


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## applecider (Feb 17, 2016)

In addition to processing software (I took a class), think about how you want your digital library handled, this will help find great shots latter. On a mac I use photos to store but preprocessing use Lightroom that part is optional.

I think a great exercise is to find a waterfall and practice aperture and shutter speed settings to see how things look differently.

Our local community centers have both in house classes and photography trip days which I prefer, if the trips have relatively few people.

I would not yet buy anything but I'd start to watch around for sales say on the canon refurbished store for future items you might want like maybe a 55-250 stm lens. 

At some point in the future you may get interested in macro photography so a set of say kenko extension tubes might be a thing to look into tubes vs 1.4 or two time extenders. Usually I would also recommend getting good stuff, but the cost of entry for a full frame tele lens is more than you need for your crop so between the 18-55 and the 55-250 you'd have a wide range covered.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 17, 2016)

I started out with my first Rebel DSLR in or around 2002. I quickly found that I had wasted a lot of money by buying low cost lenses that were not fast enough to use indoors.

The two lenses you have should work well, and once you are sure that you are going to stick with photography, then have a plan and need for each piece of glass you purchase. You can keep a good lens for 10 or 15 years, but bodies are updated frequently.

You and only you know how well you respond to self training, or casual help from others versus professional training. You might be the type of person who would benefit from a camera club, or attending night or weekend classes at a local community college.

As others have noted, processing images after they are captured is a very critical element. You can shoot jpeg images and be happy, but after you learn to process raw files you will look back at your jpegs and wish they were raw images. You can do much more in the way of editing and improving raw images.

I'm the type who learns from doing it myself. I'm retired and can spend a huge amount of time taking and processing thousands of images. I also have a online store, and produce my own images for that. Each of us is different, so look at the options offered in the forum and ask yourself which type of training will get you to where you want to be with the time and resources available.

I see video production as even more time consuming and resource hungry than still photography. I've produced videos, edited them, burned them to DVD's and even printed on the DVD with a inkjet printer to produce a nice looking product. After the time involved with a expensive camera, the cost of Adobe Premiere, I decided that it was not something I wanted to do. I had hoped to make short videos to advertise my products, but I nixed that idea. But, if Video is your thing, stick to it, it takes time but you'll get there.


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## cervantes (Feb 17, 2016)

Saloooh91 said:


> So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )
> 
> I bought it with 18-55mm lens
> Later on I bought 50mm f/1.8 II lens
> ...



There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:

*Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.*


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## slclick (Feb 17, 2016)

cervantes said:


> Saloooh91 said:
> 
> 
> > So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )
> ...



"Stop. Don't say a word until you show me your portfolio"


Never is a bit extreme. How about never take advice from people who speak in absolutes regarding a mixed format which fuses art and science.


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 17, 2016)

slclick said:


> cervantes said:
> 
> 
> > There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:
> ...



I agree with both statements. The first statement is blunt and abrasive but it is based in truth.

I think it's important to consider what style you prefer and what your own goals are. This can only be learned with experience and it evolves over time. Look at a lot of images everywhere and consider what you like about them. With that knowledge you can seek out advice or inspiration from the creators of your preferred styles which are in line with your own goals. For example, starting out I loved the ultra wide angle work that Nevada Wier did. She's been all over the world for over 30 years and her beautiful images told stories and conveyed a lot of information about the scene. Her style matched my goals of capturing our scout troop's activities and events with the scouts as the focus. She teaches classes and has a few books out. She even sold me my first 16-35 f/2.8 lens.

OTOH, if you run across someone with a big Canon camera and lens anonymously and they start telling you how to take "better" pictures, take that advice with a grain of salt in case the person is more clueless than you are. Some folks have more ego than experience. There are a lot of "experts" out there with nice equipment and lots of enthusiasm but they have no patience for actually learning the craft and building their skill set as photographers. For them it's just about the gear. It happens... a lot. And some even get paid for it.

Once you know more, you'll begin to see this situation fairly often (esp on the Internet) and recognize it pretty quickly. This is why the more experienced photographers typically love to share their knowledge. No one wants a person struggling to improve have to suffer if sharing their hard earned knowledge can help someone else enjoy a common journey. And it is a journey.


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## slclick (Feb 17, 2016)

RustyTheGeek said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > cervantes said:
> ...



A journey. That is a very succinct way to put it. Thanks.


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 17, 2016)

*Remember... a camera is to a photographer what pots and pans are to a cook.* When was the last time you complimented a cook on how good their food was only after seeing their pots and pans? The photographer makes the images, not the camera. A good photographer can make great images with any gear he has if he understands photography. The best gear in the world won't help a poor photographer.

When you see a breathtaking image anywhere, does it matter what gear was used to make it? Does anyone really care? Do you hear folks saying, "Gee, I love that image! It's so captivating and amazing! I wonder if the camera was any good?"

*It's the photographer that makes the image, not the camera. And what camera is best? The one you have with you.* (The one you can afford and know how to use.)


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## Pookie (Feb 17, 2016)

cervantes said:


> Saloooh91 said:
> 
> 
> > So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )
> ...



This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.

I've never meet a single professional or hobbyist photographer that refuses to show a portfolio. *NEVER*. Even if they keep a private personal port they always have secondary ports to show their work. This should be the litmus test for most here. There is a reason why having 10k posts earns you the name "CR Geek" not a photographer. 

BTW. Loved your 5D3 AF article Cervantes... great read and images.


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 17, 2016)

I wish I lived near *Pookie*. He would have to chase me off constantly to keep me from lurking around trying to be his assistant. I like his work and it looks like he has a lot of fun doing it! I suspect I could learn a thing or two from him except that I would be pretty distracted by some of his beautiful (or handsome) subjects. 

In short, any photographer could do a lot worse than having Pookie's portfolio. Very nice to browse!


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## takesome1 (Feb 17, 2016)

Pookie said:


> This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.
> 
> I've never meet a single professional or hobbyist photographer that refuses to show a portfolio. *NEVER*. Even if they keep a private personal port they always have secondary ports to show their work. This should be the litmus test for most here. There is a reason why having 10k posts earns you the name "CR Geek" not a photographer.



Showing your portfolio is great and I do it on other sites.
But this is a tough group that are often hostile.
Showing it to this crowd is just opening yourself up to abuse.
Even if you demonstrate the point you are making your picture will be picked and torn apart for every other reason the group can find.


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## slclick (Feb 17, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.
> ...



It would be nice if the criticism were constructive but it usually is just plain harsh. Why people find it easier to be a prick than a mentor is beyond me. Now, here comes the 'If you can't handle the heat....' or other derivatives. Something I like about this site is the wide range of shooters we have here which COULD make a thread like this incredibly valuable to those just joining both us and the art form.


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## takesome1 (Feb 17, 2016)

slclick said:


> * 'If you can't handle the heat....*'



I would expect that response eventually to this line of conversation.

But then we posted this in a thread entitled "New to photography"

Lesson #1, Newcomers beware. Your work can easily become the fodder of fire and flame.


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## Pookie (Feb 17, 2016)

RustyTheGeek said:


> I wish I lived near *Pookie*. He would have to chase me off constantly to keep me from lurking around trying to be his assistant. I like his work and it looks like he has a lot of fun doing it! I suspect I could learn a thing or two from him except that I would be pretty distracted by some of his beautiful (or handsome) subjects.
> 
> In short, any photographer could do a lot worse than having Pookie's portfolio. Very nice to browse!



Thanks, anytime you're in the bay area hit me up... first beer is on me 



slclick said:


> It would be nice if the criticism were constructive but it usually is just plain harsh. Why people find it easier to be a prick than a mentor is beyond me. Now, here comes the 'If you can't handle the heat....' or other derivatives. Something I like about this site is the wide range of shooters we have here which COULD make a thread like this incredibly valuable to those just joining both us and the art form.



Well, yes, there are some real winners here in this forum. But like much of life there will always be critics from all corners and none will ever be totally satisfied. Never fear criticism as it really is the only way to learn from mistakes you may not even know exist. I have no fear of others criticising my work, hell, I may even learn a new trick or two. I even seek out professional critiques. It's can be painful but also quite rewarding. I'm a firm believer in having a fresh point of view that I may have missed. The problem here are BS comments from forum "pros" that can't summon the courage to show their own portfolio... these individuals comments are as worthless as a 3 dollar bill and should be treated as such. This is what I think was meant by saying *"Never take photography advice from people whose pictures you haven't seen".*

Some could say I've been harsh with my critiques of some photos but harsh does not mean worthless or untrue. Harsh is only an interpretation. If it's an *objective *criticism like a "lack of focus" or missed compositional error they are meant as constructive even if it hurts your feelings. If it's *subjective* like crap subject or ugly model or... then take them for what they are, BS that has no bearing on your workflow. 

CR is an unusual situation... utterly frustrating at times. I can't tell you how many threads I've read where the advice is just plain ridiculous. You can't use a 50mm for kids... or only use this lens for that... or this camera is worthless because... There is a plethora of ABSOLUTE advice that makes no senses in the real world. I work daily with a camera and I have to say not much of what is said here is ever talked about on the job. Photographers use cameras, they are merely tools and yes they may be concerned with DR or lenses but that doesn't stop them from doing their job or having fun taking photos. And it shouldn't stop you.

As for the OP... you've had a lot of good advice. I second the "use what you have" and then think about what's next. Find a local group or pro and follow them, learn from them and apply to your own work.


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## AlanF (Feb 17, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.
> ...



Hey, all the guys on the bird photo threads are really friendly and never nasty.


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## NancyP (Feb 18, 2016)

Personally, I consider it a bit extreme to avoid advice from someone who doesn't have a whole portfolio on line. I do not consider myself an expert at any photographic subject except "how I learn to take better photos". This will be different for different people, but really, there are probably a limited number of types of learners out there, and until you know what kind of learner you are, why not try a variety of learning strategies? \

I do post an occasional image in a subject thread - most recently here on spiders (the 8-legged, 8-eyed kind, not that thing in the middle of the tripod where the legs attach).


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 18, 2016)

AlanF said:


> Hey, all the guys on the bird photo threads are really friendly and never nasty.



That is, if you want to take the advice from someone who shoots _Bird Photos_! Bird Photos. : Yeesh. Gimme a break. What a waste of time!

Oh wait... Did I say that _out loud_??! Ooops! Don't mind me! Nothing to see here. Move along! :-[

(And just in case you're offended, I'm _KIDDING_!) I just wanted to mess with you friendly birders!! That last post was just so nice and friendly, I couldn't resist giving you a poke! LOL ;D 8)


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## slclick (Feb 18, 2016)

RustyTheGeek said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, all the guys on the bird photo threads are really friendly and never nasty.
> ...



They are a friendly bunch and I think it's because of their patience.


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > AlanF said:
> ...



Almost as patient as those _MACRO_ Shooters! Ooops. There I go again! LOL


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## dcm (Feb 18, 2016)

cervantes said:


> Saloooh91 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I remember some sage advice W. Edwards Deming gave during a seminar on quality. He's the guy they honored with a global quality award named after him. When pressed by someone in the audience why they should listen to him rather than all other other people offering quality seminars, he responded "Never learn from a quack." It was priceless.

Still following that advice today. When my twenty-something daughter decided she wanted me to teach her to fly fish on a visit home after unsuccessfully trying to learn from her friends, I hired a well regarded guide for the day. I told him his only goal was for her to catch fish and he should ignore me. Despite the lingering spring runoff she caught more than a dozen fish and managed a grand slam that day, catching brook, brown, cutthroat, and rainbow trout using different techniques on a few different rivers in and around Rocky Mountain National Park - something I've never even done. I think I chose well - now she confidently fishes on her own or with friends on the rivers around Missoula where she lives.

I wouldn't begin to teach her photography (or anyone else for that matter). My daughters both took a photography course while at the university to get them beyond point and shoot.


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 18, 2016)

dcm said:


> cervantes said:
> 
> 
> > Saloooh91 said:
> ...



That's an interesting and thought provoking story. Thanks for sharing. I agree.

Me, personally, I love to teach and I taught technical classes in technology for years. My wife teaches as well. Neither of us teach as our primary vocation but we are both good at it and have received a lot of praise and good evaluations.

With that said... teaching something isn't the same as knowing something. You can be the best expert on something AND be a good teacher and still suck at teaching it. The thing is, teaching is rarely something you can do well without adequate preparation and organized/effective class material. And even after prepping, the first teach of a new class is stressful and demanding.

Similar to your example... I didn't teach my boys to drive or firearms safety. I'm dad. I'm an idiot. My boys are well accustomed to tuning me and my lame advice out. But hey, those folks at the driving school are smart! And so was that firearms instructor! In both cases, the classes were established and proven as well as having teachers that have taught them many times. The kinks are ironed out and the classes are polished.

As Dirty Harry once said... "A man's got to know his limitations!"


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## pwp (Feb 18, 2016)

Saloooh91 said:


> .......My main goal is to just enjoy my time photographing whatever is in my mind. I like photographing animals, landscapes, astro-photography, nature and black & white photos.



Be totally obsessed. If you've got genuine passion there, the sky is the limit. Not a lot really happens without it. I'd be hanging out with as many photographers as is practical be they professionals, friends or club shooters. Always take your camera with you and become truly intimate and familiar with its controls and then push its potential along with your creative potential. Don't worry about making mistakes. Take risks. 

Don't make the mistake of hanging out _TOO_ much on lists like CR and risk being little more than a virtual photographer. Shoot everything. Make a picture story every day, even if that means doing it with your phone.

Shoot RAW and get good at processing to get the best from your files. Like cooking, playing guitar or getting good at a sport, practice makes perfect. You're going to have a ball.

-pw


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## Sabaki (Feb 18, 2016)

A little project for you: Learn 30 things in 30 days. Anything from your camera, to settings, to composition to the basics of photography, just 15-30min online per day will greatly broaden your knowledge.

I would also recommend finding a mentor, be it at a club or through other means. I'm the type of guy who sometimes needs practical demonstrations of what theory suggests and when you have a mentor who can explain things through their own experiences, you will benefit.

Your gear should be determined by your prefered genres. Don't go buy a macro lens if 8/10 people recommend it if you have zero desire to shoot macro.
Buy your gear with intention and on the back of hours of research. Your kit bag should satisfy you. 

I hope you find immense joy and satisfaction with your photography journey. Enjoy%!


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## cervantes (Feb 18, 2016)

Pookie said:


> ...
> The problem here are BS comments from forum "pros" that can't summon the courage to show their own portfolio... these individuals comments are as worthless as a 3 dollar bill and should be treated as such. This is what I think was meant by saying *"Never take photography advice from people whose pictures you haven't seen".*



This is exactly what I meant! Thanks for your comments Pookie!


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 18, 2016)

cervantes said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



LOL! Once you have been on CR for a while, you'll realize that *Pookie* and *cervantes* are great photographers who put their portfolios where their mouth is. They do great work and have great advice.

And I'm getting a kick out of their "R. Lee Emory" drill sergeant approach of challenging everyone to 'put up or shut up'! _"Drop and give me 50 (images), maggot!!"_ LOL!


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## privatebydesign (Feb 18, 2016)

I think Pookie's comments are asinine. 

To suggest that only somebody 'better' than somebody else at something can offer worthwhile advice is the very definition of asinine, where would Usain Bolt be without Glen Mills (who never had a competitive race and withdrew from 'competition' at 13)? Does that mean the only coach of an NFL team has to have been a Superbowl winning player? How about AF settings advice from Rudy Winston or Chuck Westfall? Farcical.........

Further, to demand to see portfolio images flies in the very face of this style of forum, time and experience is offered for free, the posters pay nothing for that time and advice so to demand anything seems a strange turn around to me. Opinion are like arseholes, everybody has one and they got them for free, take the free advice at the value you paid for it, then come back in a year or so and see who gave the advice that played out with your personal situation and circumstances, there will be a few standouts.

As for 'forum 'pros'' I think their words speak volumes, but most of them, like me, have posted hundreds if not thousands of illustrative images to go to help clarify their posts. Personally I am only interested in posting helpful and relevant images that people might find interesting for any number of reasons, including the mistakes (intentional or not) that I make in them. I am not interested in posting images to massage my own ego, I find that a particularly pathetic attempt at self congratulation from the pro shooters here, this is predominantly an amateur forum and if, as a pro, you can't shoot, pose and light 'better' (an entirely subjective term) pictures than most of the non professionals on a consistent basis you are a jerk.

As for making mistakes, I am not too proud or up my own butt to admit I have made the occasional snafu or brain fart, invariably when I have and it is brought to my attention I will edit the post to reflect that and apologise, I would hate to think I was imparting incorrect knowledge, some two studio pros around here are not quite as humble. Indeed I know one who gave the most awful and incorrect piece of advice about lighting out there, _"if you move a light source back it will become softer"_! Despite that fundamental error being pointed out to them they didn't acknowledge the slip, I hate that kind of behaviour, totally disrespectful, factually wrong, and now a continuing source of misinformation. 

Another thing I find strange but don't obsess or get bent out of shape about, pros professing to having two studios yet without their own true website, Smugmug and Flickr pages really are third string for working pros, or how about the ones that profess all the experience of a long career and show their portfolios but they date back just a year or so? Or how about idiots that suggest a fisheye lens as a suitable lens for serious consistent portrait work?


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## takesome1 (Feb 18, 2016)

When does the title "Forum Pro" kick in. I would like to negotiate that contract.
I would like to make the transition from unpaid amature to paid pro.


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## slclick (Feb 18, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> When does the title "Forum Pro" kick in. I would like to negotiate that contract.
> I would like to make the transition from unpaid amature to paid pro.



It might be tougher than getting an SNL 5 times host jacket.


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## takesome1 (Feb 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > When does the title "Forum Pro" kick in. I would like to negotiate that contract.
> ...



How about 4 1/16


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## slclick (Feb 18, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > takesome1 said:
> ...


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## takesome1 (Feb 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



I hope that is considered when my application to turn pro is reviewed.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 19, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.
> ...



I would not worry about it. When was the last time any of those harsh critics demonstrated what they preach by posting their photos? The rest of the forum members are on to them so they know who is just bluster.


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## Valvebounce (Feb 19, 2016)

Hi Folks. 
All I will say about the forum is it has helped me a lot, I was a noob not too long ago and it takes a little while, but you will soon work out who's info you are happy to trust, who's you don't, and then there are those that post info that you mostly don't trust but once in a while they will have a real gem for us. 
Once you figure that lot out this place s great. Also the picture related forums (at least the few that I frequent) are very friendly, sometimes too friendly, sometimes I'd like to be told a picture is not very good, it helps one to improve providing the critic explains why. 

Hopefully you are still here and we haven't scared you away with all the info provided. 

Cheers, Graham.


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## takesome1 (Feb 19, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Pookie said:
> ...



Actually quite often. Most of the time their pictures lack quality and merit and of course since they are so annoying it makes it feel like an obligation to critique their examples. In some ways it is like returning a favor.


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## tpatana (Feb 19, 2016)

My pictures look like crap so nobody should listen to my advice. Well, don't do what I do, don't shoot crappy pictures. That's the part you should listen to. Everything else no.


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## Salah Yousef (Feb 20, 2016)

cervantes said:


> There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:
> 
> *Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.*



Yeah I'm actually checking photographers from my country who got in competitions and won. I'm contacting them and they gave me great advice's like not to buy new gear or lenses. They also told me to avoid clubs that tell me to upgrade my gear. I also feel like not to upgrade ATM.



RustyTheGeek said:


> Please share with us how you are doing. It's a favorite topic here to see how people improve, progress and learn.


I was going to photograph today but the weather was dusty. Soon as I start shooting I will share my photos.



daaningrid said:


> hey salooh i learned pretty much everything i know about photography on the internet you can find tutorials about everything some people i follow are dave dugdale , matt granger, chase jarvis, dslr video shooter ,dslrguide,film riot,glenn bartley,griffin hammond,jared polin,karl taylor,mike browne,neumann films,the snap chick,tony northrup some of those have gone a little quiet but
> 
> and for gear i would buy the 18-135 is stm for a starter it is way better than the 18-55 and then see what you would like to have more


Awesome list! Will check them out. Thank's.

Again I'd like to thank everybody who replied. Will update you guys with my photos 8)


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## RustyTheGeek (Feb 26, 2016)

*THIS.* (Is why I adore Nevada Wier and I feel blessed to have discovered her in 2009 right after I jumped back into serious DSLR photography.)

*https://nevadawier.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/damnation-this-travel-photography-is-hard/*

In many respects, I was in the same place the OP is in now. I had a little gear and a lot of passion and excitement to shoot, learn and grow.

*Read and Enjoy!*


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## canonix (Mar 7, 2016)

I have got to say that I took two courses in Photoshop and one Photography Work Shop in the beginning of my Photographer career, but had big regrets. They often cost a lot and don´t offer the specific information you are seeking. Often such courses are to gain money, since the internet offers a wide range of research opportunities nowadays it is pretty easy to get a good overview. Also YouTube offers a lot of Tutorials, I would say for the beginning this is enough to improve your skills.


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