# Flattening photo paper that came off of a roll?



## Kit Lens Jockey (Apr 7, 2017)

As the topic says, what is the best way to flatten photo paper that came from a roll? I notice that in high humidity, my prints seem to get ripply in a frame, and I think it's because they were initially from a roll, and weren't flattened before being put in the frame.

I have tried just rolling each sheet of paper in the opposite direction for a little while, and it does seem to flatten it to a certain extent, but then the paper has sort of a ripply appearance even outside of a frame. It's as if the paper was kind of fighting itself being rolled up in the opposite direction from how it initially was, and it ends up being "flatter" but also kind of messed up and ripply overall.

I have seen there are some products meant to "de-roll" paper, but they seem to cost hundreds of dollars for what essentially looks like a small roll with a piece of vinyl attached to it.

https://www.itsupplies.com/D-Roller-Model-150-24-Width


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## GN Photos (Apr 7, 2017)

If you are framing your photos, you can dry mount them on matte board. With the stiffness of the matte board, there will be no concerns of ripples or curling. Many camera and framing stores have dry mount presses. Some will let you do it yourself when you purchase the dry mount paper and matte board or they will do it for you, for a charge.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 7, 2017)

I see a lot (relatively) of dry mount presses on Craigslist, but few really large ones. I have thought of getting one, but so far, I don't have enough use.


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## mnclayshooter (Apr 7, 2017)

One thing you're fighting, likely, is that the paper is "one-sided". Meaning there's a dye/ink sensitive coating on one side of it and not on the other. That's probably also a little more hygroscopic (meaning it attracts moisture, readily) than the other side and is expanding during high relative humidity. I say relative, because in theory, the differential expansion should normalize once both sides of the paper have been exposed to and have had enough time to normalize to each other, relative to the amount of water absorbed. 

Long story short, I would be more inclined to believe that it might not be a product of being roll-stock, but might be more a product of two different surfaces behaving differently to each other. I could be wrong, I'm not seeing your exact situation first-hand... but I'll use a different example. Print on plain paper sometime and allow your ink settings to over-saturate the print. The paper will pucker a bit because portions of it are far more saturated and expanded than the others. 

As others have said, providing a stiffer backing material that is uniformly supported (either taped fully on the edges, or dry-mounted, might help. Otherwise, sealing your frame might be another option... using glazing tape available from the hardware store.


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## LDS (Apr 7, 2017)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I have tried just rolling each sheet of paper in the opposite direction for a little while, and it does seem to flatten it to a certain extent, but then the paper has sort of a ripply appearance even outside of a frame. It's as if the paper was kind of fighting itself being rolled up in the opposite direction from how it initially was, and it ends up being "flatter" but also kind of messed up and ripply overall.



The problem is that if you don't keep it "tight" when you roll it up in the other direction, the paper may ripple. That's why D-Roller use such design to keep the paper under pressure when re-rolled, and hinder rippling. You can build yourself something alike the D-Roller device, using a tube (cardboard, plastic) of the proper diameter, and a canvas large enough for the print. It's important to keep the right pressure when rolling *and* unrolling, to ensure the paper doesn't have "space" to ripple.

IIRC you're using a PRO-1000, if so, and you're using cut sheets from rolls, you may want to flatten paper before printing - less risks to damage the printed surface.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Apr 7, 2017)

Yes, thank you. I was wondering if there was something within the physics of the de-roller devices that prevented the rippling as compared to simply rolling the paper up on itself. I guess there is. I will probably make something myself that is similar to the de-roller devices.

The printer has actually been working well even with sheets that have not been flattened prior to printing. But, I probably will do it prior to printing because there's no risk of messing up the printed surface that way, and if something really goes awry with the de-rolling, them I'm only out a sheet of paper instead of a finished print.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 7, 2017)

One of the main reasons for rippling is framing them too quickly and not properly mounting them, I use a lot of roll paper and don't 'de-curl'.

It is very important to allow time for the print to off gas and settle, Epson actually specify 24 hours after printing before mounting and although I haven't seen a listed figure from Canon I don't believe it can be much different. Certainly I can smell new prints for some time after they are done so something is happening. I put my prints on a magnetic board for a day or two, it lets me get used to them too.

The second part is I always tape the entire top edge, and only the top edge so the print hangs between the mat and the backing board. This allows it the space it needs to move relative to the other materials.

There are several other higher end options that don't rely on dry mounting, which is generally frowned on in 'serious' photographic print circles as it is destructive.

There is a bargain option if you still want to de-roll, you can roll it the wrong way between the roll you just got it off. This has several advantages, it is free, you have it, if you unroll the same amount of paper it works just as the linked rip off in that it sandwiches the print so no room for rippling, and if you do it at a similar time it will have an appropriate radius so you should only need to make one pass.


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## LDS (Apr 7, 2017)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> The printer has actually been working well even with sheets that have not been flattened prior to printing.



The PRO-1000 (and many other printers, especially those supporting rolls) has a vacuum system which will keep the paper flat while printing.

Be aware that humidity matters, when flattening paper. The drier, the more difficult it becomes.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Apr 7, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> It is very important to allow time for the print to off gas and settle, Epson actually specify 24 hours after printing before mounting and although I haven't seen a listed figure from Canon I don't believe it can be much different. Certainly I can smell new prints for some time after they are done so something is happening. I put my prints on a magnetic board for a day or two, it lets me get used to them too.


Yes, I never put anything in a frame before 24 hours have passed since it was printed. I might try the tape thing though.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Apr 7, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> The second part is I always tape the entire top edge, and only the top edge so the print hangs between the mat and the backing board. This allows it the space it needs to move relative to the other materials.


When you say tape the entire top edge, what do you mean exactly? Tape the print to the backing? Tape the top edge of just the backing so that it's just making something a little thicker up top so the print is loose elsewhere?


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## privatebydesign (Apr 7, 2017)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > The second part is I always tape the entire top edge, and only the top edge so the print hangs between the mat and the backing board. This allows it the space it needs to move relative to the other materials.
> ...



There are two methods I use, both use tape along the entire top edge of the print and stick the print to either the backing or the mat. 

First method tapes the print to the back substrate, normally foamcore, this is my normal method and I like it because I put the foamcore down first, then the print, then the mat, I can re-position everything to suit then use a weight to hold the print and move the mat then just run tape along the top edge. This means you always get your alignment perfect but does mean you get tape on the front edge of your print, in the boarder section obviously, but some purists say you shouldn't. Though I have removed good quality tape from boarder areas with no damage.

Second method is to tape the print to the back of the mat, I don't do this as often because it is more difficult to align and the mat is not as good a support as the foamcore. The advantage is the tape is on the back of the print.

The great thing about these two methods is they they are quick and easy and because the print has so much support it doesn't move, yet it is free to expand and contract as much as it needs without stressing anything.

Third method, which I don't use, is to get big 'photo corner' holders, they make them in archival materials just for this job. Then mount the print to the backing (foamcore) with the corners and then use double sided tape to tape the mat to the backing, this means the print floats entirely but gets the support from the corners and being sandwiched between the mat and backing all whilst being entirely untouched.


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