# Are the 7D2 and 6D selling well?



## ahsanford (Jul 13, 2015)

Just looking at the sales price trend of the 5D3, 7D2 and 6D, I have to wonder if the 6D or 7D2 should be considered relative disappointments to the 5D3. 

For a host of reasons, Canon was pretty ruthless with the price of the 5D3 -- holding a very hard line with authorized resellers for nearly 3 years. But the 6D has seen a steady price drop since it's release, and the 7D2 just took a 15-20% price cut within it's first year.

Should we interpret that as Canon was too unreasonable with their initial pricing, or is there a competitive product that is outperforming it (sales-wise)? Or perhaps the market as a whole is down and Canon is chasing it by discounting those products?

Just curious.

- A


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## Don Haines (Jul 13, 2015)

A drop from $2100 to $1400 for the 6D is a drop of 1/3.... quite a bit! It is carried by a lot of the discount electronics stores (best buy etc) as an in store item, so I would guess (no data to back it up) that it is selling well.

The 7D2 went from $1800 to $1500... a drop of 1/6th.... about what one would expect after the initial rush was over....

I have probably seen 3 times as many 6Ds as 7D2s in people's hands....


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## dcm (Jul 13, 2015)

Trying to measure success by purchase price trend graphs is problematic, particularly when the axes have different ranges and scales. Here's the same information on a couple of charts to provide more of an apples to apples comparison. 

The first graph shows the prices normalized to the original purchase price versus versus months from introduction. Seem pretty similar to me. We see some seemingly dramatic departures later in the graph between the 6D and 5D3 which might be explained by the next graph. 

The second graph shows the normalized price versus calendar month. Here we see less difference between the 6D and 5D3 since it aligns rebates and price reductions. Not so much of a difference. The 6D may have allowed Canon to return to and sustain the premium price on the 5D after the initial price cutting. But that is purely conjecture. 

I doubt Canon is disappointed in any of the three at this point. The M in the U.S. may be the sole disappointment from my perspective. Graphs updated to include the M


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## old-pr-pix (Jul 13, 2015)

You need to also factor in the exchange rates between countries since most major camera manufacturers work in Yen. For U.S. the Yen to dollar rate was about 76 back in the fall of 2011. It is now about 123 Yen per dollar.

If the price directly followed the exchange rate, folks in the U.S. should have seen prices drop about 60% over that time if the Japanese price was constant. Likely Canon USA (or any other country) negotiates prices with Canon Japan on an annual basis with perhaps some quarterly adjustments. That shields consumers from the day-to-day variations of exchange rates; but, at the same time is part of why Asian based Internet retailers can often dramatically undercut local sellers when the local currency strengthens. That undercutting then forces local organizations to reduce prices or give up business to the "grey market."


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 14, 2015)

old-pr-pix said:


> You need to also factor in the exchange rates between countries since most major camera manufacturers work in Yen. For U.S. the Yen to dollar rate was about 76 back in the fall of 2011. It is now about 123 Yen per dollar.
> 
> If the price directly followed the exchange rate, folks in the U.S. should have seen prices drop about 60% over that time if the Japanese price was constant. Likely Canon USA (or any other country) negotiates prices with Canon Japan on an annual basis with perhaps some quarterly adjustments. That shields consumers from the day-to-day variations of exchange rates; but, at the same time is part of why Asian based Internet retailers can often dramatically undercut local sellers when the local currency strengthens. That undercutting then forces local organizations to reduce prices or give up business to the "grey market."



Yes, the value of the dollar versus the yen a huge factor, about 45%. Plot the price in Yen at the exchange rate in effect each month, and it may look much different. Showing it in dollars is not telling the big story.

Its typical that a product drops in price over time, be it a price for a new car model, or camera model. 

In the case of the 7D MK II, it was priced too high to begin with, so the early adopters paid a premium. 

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=JPY&view=5Y


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Jul 14, 2015)

too be honest
the 7D2 is outselling the 6D 
why?
because u barely track anything with the 6D yes it full frame a great portrait camera and low light camera BUT THATS THE END OF LINE
people want a do-all "or nearly do-all camera that rugged and tough" the 6D is fully weather sealed nor cant take alot of punishment people buy if WIFI and the aforementioned portraits "fashion,weddings and etc"


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2015)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> too be honest
> the 7D2 is outselling the 6D
> why?
> because u barely track anything with the 6D yes it full frame a great portrait camera and low light camera BUT THATS THE END OF LINE
> people want a do-all "or nearly do-all camera that rugged and tough" the 6D is fully weather sealed nor cant take alot of punishment people buy if WIFI and the aforementioned portraits "fashion,weddings and etc"



Forgive me, I'm asking _how_ they are selling, not why. 

Do "People" have sales charts they can share? 

- A


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## Frodo (Jul 14, 2015)

In New Zealand, the 6D is currently NZ's 100th most popular "digital system camera" not sure what that means (but probably includes consumer DSLRs and mirrorless) (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?pu=2802579)
The 7DII is currently 52nd (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?pu=1410872#)
But the 6D has been around a while.
More telling is that the 6D peaked at 25th in Sept 2013, inside of a year after release.
In contrast the 7DII has never been higher than 49th (in November 2014).
I don't know the sales volumes, but this suggests that the 6D is a more popular camera than the 7DII.
Interestingly, the 6D started at $2860 (NZ) dropping quickly to a plateau of $2180 in May 2013 and is now $1730 (60% of introductory price) (which is why I just bought one).
The 7DII has dropped from $2600 to $1880 (72%). The 6D dropped by virtually the same amount in the first 10 months.
These figures are minimum prices in NZ and the NZ dollar has seen some exchange fluctuations that need to be factored in. 
It think "popularity" is a better indicator than price. And puts paid to the criticism of BigAnt TV, in NZ at least.


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## unfocused (Jul 14, 2015)

Impossible to know without having access to proprietary market information from Canon, so I presume you only want peoples' opinions. Some thoughts:

There are way too many variables to draw conclusions about the relative success of a particular model based on the price history. 

Don't put too much stock into exchange rate fluctuations. Canon is a multinational company and their costs in yen are only a small portion of the cost of a camera. For example, all the costs of Canon USA must be paid in dollars. The substantial sales and support network, advertising dollars, shipping, warehousing, etc., etc. are paid in local currency and unaffected by the yen. 

The exchange rate is having an impact, but not in the way many people think. We are seeing it in the substantial discounts that unauthorized dealers offer for import versions of the cameras. That has definitely driven down the price in the U.S., as authorized dealers skirt the MAP prices in order to compete. (And buyers purchase more import models, as well.) 

Keep in mind too that we don't know what the cost to dealers is. Some of the price drops in the currently competitive market are the result of dealers skirting MAP and taking less profit. This doesn't affect Canon's bottom line. 

Remember that you are comparing cameras of different release dates. Cameras always fall in value after they are released. Ordinarily, the price settles in sometime around a year after a new body is released and that price falls much more gradually for the next year or so until shortly before the next model is released. As anticipation for a replacement model increases, you may see another significant drop. Since the 5D, 6D and 7D are all at different points in their release cycles, it's misleading to try to compare them.

We are experiencing a much more mature market today than a few years ago. Another thread shows the CIPA data. It's pretty clear from that data that overall, the market is down. That another variable that would have to be factored in.

We don't know what Canon's target were for these cameras, so it's impossible to say whether or not they are selling well. When it was released, the 7D was a general purpose camera for enthusiasts. The only full frame alternative was the much more expensive 5DII. The 7DII is much more of a niche market camera aimed at those who want the extra reach of a crop sensor and 1Dx-like features in a crop body. I suspect that far more 7DIIs are being sold as second bodies than were the original 7D. (In a shrinking market, one way to expand sales is to sell more product to fewer people. I've long suspected Canon's goal was never to convert APS-C owners to full frame, but rather to get their best customers to buy both a full frame and an APS-C body).

The 6D has proven to be one of the best selling full frame cameras ever (based on its long dominance of the full frame slot among Amazon best sellers and other available sales data -- See Frodo's post). Obviously, the 6D cut into the 7D market and possibly to some degree into the 5DIII market – No doubt Canon knew that when it introduced the 6D. 

Speaking of the 6D, there were many who felt its price at introduction was high in comparison to Nikon's comparable model. So, it's not surprising it has fallen from that introduced price.

In short, you simply can't pick one data point (retails prices on this day) and draw any conclusion.


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2015)

Good insights, all. I appreciate the discussion.

- A


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## Digbydriver (Jul 14, 2015)

I was in the market, and was deciding between a 7 or 6. Got a 6 from Canon refurbished for 1099 a week ago, when they had it for $260 off. Very happy with a full frame camera with a simple reliable focus system that is superior in low light. Mostly macro and landscape is what I like. Might get a 7 when I can also get one of those for 1099 refurbished.


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## SUNDOG04 (Jul 14, 2015)

Well, I bought a 6D earlier in the year and love it. So much negative things said about it..few focusing points probably being the worst one. I wanted an affordable body for landscape. I did not need all the bells and whistles regarding focusing. I love the camera, reasonably small and light, simple, focus is FAST and ACCURATE. I use it for landscape, macro and other nature photography but also have used it to photograph runners. For that, the frame rate is fine and I consistently get photos so sharp as to be able to read the runners names which is hand-written on their tags. If Canon implemented all that people complained about the camera, well, then, you would have a 5DIII. If I were to do birds in flight I would choose a 7DII but would also need a long telephotos and I wish not to do that. Thankfully I did not listen to all the negative publicity which is directed at what the camera is not. What it does which is everything I need, it does well.


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## NancyP (Jul 14, 2015)

Two markets for 7D2: 1. Action enthusiasts who can't buy a 1DX or who use supertelephotos and want the crop factor / increased pixel density. These people may or may not have a FF camera. 2. budget generalists with kids who play sports (especially indoor sports - the anti-flicker feature) - this is their one and only DSLR.

Two markets for 6D: 1. Moving up to FF for specific image quality issues, don't need killer AF, just "good enough" AF. 2. Manual focus lens enthusiasts / legacy lens enthusiasts (a small group - here the issue is interchangeable screen capacity not present in the 5D3). Action shooters who want full frame capacity will get 5D3. Focal length limited action shooters (birders) may get 7D2 for birding, use 6D for everything else.

What do I have? 6D for landscape, macro, low-light, general; 60D for birding. I will upgrade 60D to 7D2 soon - initial production issues (focusing and such) have had a shakedown, prices have dropped a bit, I need to upgrade my operating system or OS + computer in order to get the latest Lightroom


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## LukasS (Jul 14, 2015)

I bought 7d2 in December to shoot aviation (Air shows and Air2Air) and outdoor sports, I needed reach (APS-C), great AF and shutter speed. I got all that with this camera.

I'm in market for FF to replace my aging 5D, passed on 5DsR and at the moment waiting for specification for 1DxII and 5dIV, hopefully will decide between them (maybe 6DII will be announced by the end of year).


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## Frodo (Jul 14, 2015)

NancyP said:


> Two markets for 7D2: 1. Action enthusiasts who can't buy a 1DX or who use supertelephotos and want the crop factor / increased pixel density. These people may or may not have a FF camera. 2. budget generalists with kids who play sports (especially indoor sports - the anti-flicker feature) - this is their one and only DSLR.
> 
> Two markets for 6D: 1. Moving up to FF for specific image quality issues, don't need killer AF, just "good enough" AF. 2. Manual focus lens enthusiasts / legacy lens enthusiasts (a small group - here the issue is interchangeable screen capacity not present in the 5D3). Action shooters who want full frame capacity will get 5D3. Focal length limited action shooters (birders) may get 7D2 for birding, use 6D for everything else.



Nancy, there is at least a third group, of which I am part: people "cross-grading" (like Dustin Abbott). I had a 5DII, and also considered a 5DIII and 5DS. Small light FF with good low light manners (focus and IQ) and a good feature set. The 6D provided almost all I need and is a superior camera to the 5DII. I have a 7D for sports and birding. This is my travel camera, so GPS is welcome. I possibly would still have bought the 6D if it were priced the same as the 5DIII, but its about half price and the $NZ1500 can be spent elsewhere. The 5DSR is almost four times the price of the 6D. I'll rent one if I need 50MP.


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## LSXPhotog (Jul 14, 2015)

Just based on my opinion from what I see in the field, the 7D2 is very fresh, it's still treated like a unicorn when people see me or hear me using it. If I had to guess, sales can't be earth shattering because I've only encountered two other photographers with one at races...TWO! It's hard to believe the camera is nearing 10 months old now!

The 6D probably didn't sell anywhere near what Canon anticipated. The d600/610 and d750 really stole the show. But, at the current price point I know loads of people who picked one up. I love mine, but obviously wish for a few more features. Had I purchased mine at the original price, I wouldn't be too pleased. I see 6ds all over...but see more 5D3s than anything else.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 19, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> .
> 
> Do "People" have sales charts they can share?
> 
> - A



Canon does not make sales information available. There are third party companies that survey major retailers and develop estimates, but like many polls, they can be badly flawed. I do not trust any statement that A is outselling B.

There is one general rule that seems to apply, lower cost items sell in larger volumes than high priced ones. That should be obvious, so when someone says that a higher priced item is selling better than a lower priced one, the statement should be backed up by facts. (There are none available, of course)


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 29, 2015)

Ditto Frodo remarks. Dont know where BigAntTVProductions is coming from I shoot regularly on Dartmoor all year around one of the few remaining wilderness locations in England in all weathers and the 6D is perfect for Landscape and rugged enough for my puposes. My 7D is heavy by comparision and inferior IQ but for wildlife and airshows etc. its 1.6X plays into better reach. 
The 6D in the UK is priced exactly the same as the Nikon D610 its direct competitor and unlike that camera has not had to have an upgrade (the 6D & D600 were launched wroughly the same time). Ive always thought of the 6D that it was a FF version of the 60D and built to similar levels whereas the 7DMKII is a 1.6X version of the 5D MKIII albeit newer tech. The 70D retails far less than the 6D so from that perspective the 6D is priced to tempt 1.6X shooters to FF wiothout going all the way out to the 5DMKIII almost twice its price. The mystery is why Canon has not got a camera at the Nikon D750 price point.


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