# Canon Speedlite 600EX II-RT $399 (Reg $579), is a new flagship Speedlite coming?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 16, 2020)

> We were told recently that Canon would be announcing a new flagship Speedliite ahead of CP+ next month, and this price drop may be evidence that the information is true.
> This is the lowest price we’ve ever seen for this Speedlite from an authorized dealer.
> *Canon Speedlite 600EX II-RT $399* (Reg $579)



Continue reading...


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## unfocused (Jan 17, 2020)

That's less than refurbished and even less than the price from reputable used dealers. I'm guessing the next model will incorporate the nifty AI technology, which could be fun but really only useful when shooting with single speedlight.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 17, 2020)

Used 600EX-RT’s the first model, are down to $150 used, I just picked up three more and a second ST-E3 RT for $500, I felt it was a deal I couldn’t say no to, I love building light in scenes, too many Joe McNally videos years ago


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## sulla (Jan 17, 2020)

I own 2 600 RT version I of those. RT is so extremely easy to use, a charm. (Also, I have some yongnuo RT receivers (YNE3RX) to connect to studio strobes, a wonderful system).

I never liked the idea of that strange AI technology, for I like to provide the necessary intelligence myself... Is AI any good?


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## Memdroid (Jan 17, 2020)

I hope the new flagship will introduce new tech for the mirrorless cameras. Currently on the R using the speedlites in low ligh situations is taking a massive hit for the run and gun game. The fps is down to 3 and there is a tremendous lag for the initial focus because the IR element is not helping the AF, missing crucial moments as a result. Making the AF lock instantly like on a dslr will make a massive difference.


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## sulla (Jan 17, 2020)

OK, I now own 4. Yes, 150 used. Thanks for the hint, private!


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## Andrew Davies Photography (Jan 17, 2020)

I have been bouncing flashes for years  , and I have not found it remotely difficult or time consuming to move the flash head, rather it makes you take your time and think out the shot. Add to that the motor that moves that head is going to race through batteries and I will give AI a miss I think. Anyone actually had experience with it on the new Canon Flash ?

Like the idea of reductions on the old one though as it is a great flashgun.


Wedding Photographer North East & Yorkshire Northumberland & Wedding Photographer Cumbria


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## edoorn (Jan 17, 2020)

lithium battery, integrated LED light, maybe a clever system for integrated gels / grids, way more power? Otherwise, why pay the extra bucks over cheaper alternatives like Godox?


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## Bennymiata (Jan 17, 2020)

I prefer my Godox V1s.
The round head gives much nicer fall-off and the Lipo battery lasts for ages.
The accessory pack for it is also excellent with its magnets holding the accessories.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 17, 2020)

Thats quite surprising, still waiting for refresh of 320ex.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 17, 2020)

sulla said:


> I own 2 600 RT version I of those. RT is so extremely easy to use, a charm. (Also, I have some yongnuo RT receivers (YNE3RX) to connect to studio strobes, a wonderful system).
> 
> I never liked the idea of that strange AI technology, for I like to provide the necessary intelligence myself... *Is AI any good?*



I have a bunch of regular speedlites and Godox 360s. 

For a wedding last autumn, I bought the basic AI flash refurb, and it was fun to use. I could easily get by without using it. But it also worked good.

One very nice thing was how quiet it operated. Almost silent instead of the rattling clicking and clacking of many speedlites doing bounce flash.

Put in few words, it was quiet, fun and affordable to use.


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## bergstrom (Jan 17, 2020)

I've been using the YN600ex2's for a few years and they do the job. I'd switch to canon if the prices matched yongnuo's, but I doubt that will happen any decade soon,


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## YuengLinger (Jan 17, 2020)

Memdroid said:


> I hope the new flagship will introduce new tech for the mirrorless cameras. Currently on the R using the speedlites in low ligh situations is taking a massive hit for the run and gun game. The fps is down to 3 and there is a tremendous lag for the initial focus because the IR element is not helping the AF, missing crucial moments as a result. Making the AF lock instantly like on a dslr will make a massive difference.



All of what you've mentioned, plus A BATTERY LEVEL INDICATOR, PLEASE!


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## magarity (Jan 17, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> All of what you've mentioned, plus A BATTERY LEVEL INDICATOR, PLEASE!


Alas, this is unlikely. AA batteries have no self monitoring to report their level or type. Since a device using AA's has no way to know if alkalines, Ni-Cads, Ni-MH, Li have been installed, all with different draw down rates, it's really impossible to have a battery level indicator that can show anything meaningful.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 17, 2020)

sulla said:


> I never liked the idea of that strange AI technology, for I like to provide the necessary intelligence myself... Is AI any good?



It is fantastic, if they moved it into a 600 MkIII I’d get one immediately. It works really well for function type work and is particularly effective if you mix up portrait and landscape orientations, it just deals with that flip automatically.

The 470 EX Ai doesn’t work, well the Ai bit, on the M cameras, which I think is a huge mistake by Canon.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 17, 2020)

magarity said:


> Alas, this is unlikely. AA batteries have no self monitoring to report their level or type. Since a device using AA's has no way to know if alkalines, Ni-Cads, Ni-MH, Li have been installed, all with different draw down rates, it's really impossible to have a battery level indicator that can show anything meaningful.



One of the many, many reasons why it's time to retire AA batteries from Speedlites and move onto lithium batteries. How about a flash that takes LP-E6 batteries? Or better still a system like on the Godox where there's a battery-shaped hole that the battery clicks into without needing a battery compartment door (the first thing that always fails on flashes).


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## privatebydesign (Jan 18, 2020)

Andrew Davies Photography said:


> I have been bouncing flashes for years  , and I have not found it remotely difficult or time consuming to move the flash head, rather it makes you take your time and think out the shot. Add to that the motor that moves that head is going to race through batteries and I will give AI a miss I think. Anyone actually had experience with it on the new Canon Flash ?
> 
> Like the idea of reductions on the old one though as it is a great flashgun.
> 
> ...


I have 7 600EX-RT’s, and a wide variety of studio flashes and have been bouncing on camera flash since the 550EX was new. The 470ex Ai is an amazing tool in the right situation and in my opinion the only thing it lacks is the RT so it could be the on camera controller for remotes. The auto bounce functionality is amazing and I find the best use for it is when you are going from portrait to landscape mode continually, it just tracks what you are doing and always ends up where it needs to be. You can even set the bounce angle as normal and then get it to adjust for the different orientations.

For fast moving event style photography, family gatherings, receptions etc etc where I can use a single on camera flash it is my first choice.


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## sulla (Jan 18, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> One of the many, many reasons why it's time to retire AA batteries from Speedlites and move onto lithium batteries. How about a flash that takes LP-E6 batteries? Or better still a system like on the Godox where there's a battery-shaped hole that the battery clicks into without needing a battery compartment door (the first thing that always fails on flashes).


Yea, I would also like the idea of LP-E6 batteries for flashes. Charger and battery sharing with the camera and it is a really powerful battery unit, so you wouldn't need that inconvenient external battery case with, again, 8 AA batteries. But a battery door would still be needed for weather sealing.


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## sulla (Jan 18, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I have 7 600EX-RT’s, and a wide variety of studio flashes and have been bouncing on camera flash since the 550EX was new. The 470ex Ai is an amazing tool in the right situation and in my opinion the only thing it lacks is the RT so it could be the on camera controller for remotes. The auto bounce functionality is amazing and I find the best use for it is when you are going from portrait to landscape mode continually, it just tracks what you are doing and always ends up where it needs to be. You can even set the bounce angle as normal and then get it to adjust for the different orientations.
> 
> For fast moving event style photography, family gatherings, receptions etc etc where I can use a single on camera flash it is my first choice.



OK, after watching a few demonstration videos, yes, I agree, the semi-automatic AI mode that compensates for orientation changes seems a beneficial function (that is, if the orientation change of the camera is in the right direction such that the flash can compensate for it, obviously.) Might be nice.

I rarely use speedlites on camera, for in most of my setups I only put the transmitter on the camera and place the speedlites somewhere in the room. And in those rare cases when I use the flash on camera I don't use slaves, so I wouldn't miss the RT function on the 470EX-AI too much, but I would still be annoyed not to be able to use the 470-AI as an RT-slave. So, yes, this is a serious lack of feature.

By the way, the MR-14EX II came out shortly after the 600 RT and it also didn't include RT, which I also found a very sad omission, because the ringlite would make an excellent RT master (it is only an optical master). At least the current twinlite MT-26-EX-RT has RT built into it, so that makes it possible to use 600-RT as RT-slaves in macro photography, which is great.
I really find it very weird not to put the RT function into every flash. Even a 90EX speedlite would be an excellent RT-master (it is only an optical master).


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## stevelee (Jan 18, 2020)

Is there some reason the 6D II is left off the compatibility list, or is that just an omission?


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## privatebydesign (Jan 18, 2020)

sulla said:


> By the way, the MR-14EX II came out shortly after the 600 RT and it also didn't include RT, which I also found a very sad omission, because the ringlite would make an excellent RT master (it is only an optical master). At least the current twinlite MT-26-EX-RT has RT built into it, so that makes it possible to use 600-RT as RT-slaves in macro photography, which is great.
> I really find it very weird not to put the RT function into every flash. Even a 90EX speedlite would be an excellent RT-master (it is only an optical master).



I suppose the reasoning was that at the distances the MR-14EXII is designed to work optical is well up to the task, same really with the 90EX which I got for free when I got an original M kit from B&H.


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## sanj (Jan 19, 2020)

So. Can we safely say that dealers get to know about new releases in advance?


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## stevelee (Jan 19, 2020)

sanj said:


> So. Can we safely say that dealers get to know about new releases in advance?


If dealers are heavily discounting a certain model, isn't there normally a discount from the manufacturer that allows it? Of course the manufacturer knows about upcoming models.


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## magarity (Jan 19, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> One of the many, many reasons why it's time to retire AA batteries from Speedlites and move onto lithium batteries. How about a flash that takes LP-E6 batteries? Or better still a system like on the Godox where there's a battery-shaped hole that the battery clicks into without needing a battery compartment door (the first thing that always fails on flashes).


Going to a rechargeable only is a bad idea because then one loses the worldwide availability of AA batteries. The only happy way for a flash to use a Li would be if it was a module that fit where the AAs go so you have a choice. Actually I once had a Vivitar flash that came with such a rechargeable module, so yes, the idea works. A rechargeable module only sounds like a great idea only until you're stuck somewhere not able to charge it. The 6D's grip comes with an AA tray probably for this very reason of available anywhere. (not sure about other models)


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## Andrew Davies Photography (Jan 20, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I have 7 600EX-RT’s, and a wide variety of studio flashes and have been bouncing on camera flash since the 550EX was new. The 470ex Ai is an amazing tool in the right situation and in my opinion the only thing it lacks is the RT so it could be the on camera controller for remotes. The auto bounce functionality is amazing and I find the best use for it is when you are going from portrait to landscape mode continually, it just tracks what you are doing and always ends up where it needs to be. You can even set the bounce angle as normal and then get it to adjust for the different orientations.
> 
> For fast moving event style photography, family gatherings, receptions etc etc where I can use a single on camera flash it is my first choice.



Interesting thank you for your response ! , how have you found a} noise in quite conditions of flash motor b) useage of batteries compared to non AI ? thank you


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## privatebydesign (Jan 20, 2020)

Andrew Davies Photography said:


> Interesting thank you for your response ! , how have you found a} noise in quite conditions of flash motor b) useage of batteries compared to non AI ? thank you


I use 1 series cameras so the sounds from the flash are more than drowned out by the camera  , but seriously, it’s just a gentle whirring sound that I haven’t found distracting.

I use Eneloop batteries and again, I haven’t noticed anything unusual with power drain, I don’t expect it takes much energy to power the motors, but i am not a very high volume shooter even at events and always have spare batteries to hand, not that I have ever had to change out a set mid event. I’m probably in the 200 shot range without issue but don’t know beyond that.

As an aside, I expected it to be a bit of a joke but recommended it to a non pro friend who was looking for a bounce flash for taking cat adoption portraits. I watched all the videos and thought it would be a great idea for her and there was a deal on at the time. She got one and I used it and was very impressed, I have used one several times since but generally need RT control so mostly use a 600EX-RT, the other thing I really wish the 470EX Ai did was work on the M series cameras, that is a major oversight Canon forced themselves into by insisting the M’s got POowershot firmware rather than EOS firmware.


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## sanj (Jan 20, 2020)

stevelee said:


> If dealers are heavily discounting a certain model, isn't there normally a discount from the manufacturer that allows it? Of course the manufacturer knows about upcoming models.


Then how come the rest of the dealers are not discounting the same item?


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## stevelee (Jan 20, 2020)

sanj said:


> Then how come the rest of the dealers are not discounting the same item?


B&H has the same price, last I saw. I haven’t looked elsewhere, so I don’t know how widespread. I wound up at B&H from searching for reviews.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 21, 2020)

magarity said:


> Going to a rechargeable only is a bad idea because then one loses the worldwide availability of AA batteries. The only happy way for a flash to use a Li would be if it was a module that fit where the AAs go so you have a choice. Actually I once had a Vivitar flash that came with such a rechargeable module, so yes, the idea works. A rechargeable module only sounds like a great idea only until you're stuck somewhere not able to charge it. The 6D's grip comes with an AA tray probably for this very reason of available anywhere. (not sure about other models)


Canon could do what Nissin did with their flagship speedlight, add compatibility for 14500 sized Li-Ion batteries. Those batteries are available for cheap and being same sized as AA alkalines user can use either of those 2 battery types based on situation.


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## magarity (Jan 21, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Canon could do what Nissin did with their flagship speedlight, add compatibility for 14500 sized Li-Ion batteries. Those batteries are available for cheap and being same sized as AA alkalines user can use either of those 2 battery types based on situation.


Hey that's great about more types of AA but the person I was replying to wanted a power meter. The 14500 types still don't have a self monitoring and reporting mechanism. Like a regular AA, there is just positive and negative terminals. Look at the camera batteries like the LP-E6 or 17. The extra contacts are for the "what's my charge state" information.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 21, 2020)

magarity said:


> Hey that's great about more types of AA but the person I was replying to wanted a power meter. The 14500 types still don't have a self monitoring and reporting mechanism. Like a regular AA, there is just positive and negative terminals. Look at the camera batteries like the LP-E6 or 17. The extra contacts are for the "what's my charge state" information.


Generally for Li-Ion charge state can be measured from voltage of cells(thats how my torch(Nitecore Tm26) shows battery life). Other than voltage monitoring in the device(Li-ion cells come only with safety circuits while imr/ifr cells dont even have electronic safety and rely on devices to provide OverCharge and OverDischarge safety) there really is no special need for additional contacts for monitoring battery life of Li-Ion cells. Also unlike alkaline cells the gap between fully charged(4.35-4.2V depending on chemistry) and fully discharged(~2.5V) is quite big and its easier to get status of these cells and show it to user using 4/5 bars on display.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 24, 2020)

magarity said:


> Going to a rechargeable only is a bad idea because then one loses the worldwide availability of AA batteries. The only happy way for a flash to use a Li would be if it was a module that fit where the AAs go so you have a choice. Actually I once had a Vivitar flash that came with such a rechargeable module, so yes, the idea works. A rechargeable module only sounds like a great idea only until you're stuck somewhere not able to charge it. The 6D's grip comes with an AA tray probably for this very reason of available anywhere. (not sure about other models)



Yet we survive with LiIon batteries in everything else we use these days. I think this is a concern for some, but for most people AA batteries are far from convenient. They're slower to replace when you need to change batteries in a rush, they have no way to monitor remaining capacity (this is really important!) and the battery door is a serious weakpoint (strangely, I've never had a camera battery door fail, but i've had the door fail on multiple flashes from different manufacturers - I can only assume it's to do with the way AA batteries need to be contained. 

To be honest, I really don't mind myself if Canon use AA batteries or not in their next speedlite, I've switched over to the Godox V1 and I'm perfectly happy - solves all my issues. I have three spare Godox batteries, and I've never needed to use more than two at a time so far.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 24, 2020)

sulla said:


> Yea, I would also like the idea of LP-E6 batteries for flashes. Charger and battery sharing with the camera and it is a really powerful battery unit, so you wouldn't need that inconvenient external battery case with, again, 8 AA batteries. But a battery door would still be needed for weather sealing.



I've never had an LP-E6 battery door fail on me. AA Battery doors on flashes fail all the time.


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## sulla (Jan 25, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> I've never had an LP-E6 battery door fail on me. AA Battery doors on flashes fail all the time.


I've never had any battery door broken...

By the way, has anyone ever used the 6-AA battery adapter for the vertical grip in the camera? Is that any good, peak-power-wise?


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## LDS (Jan 25, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> hey're slower to replace when you need to change batteries



Yes, it's a pity Canon abandoned the quick-change holders it used in the past.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 31, 2020)

sulla said:


> I've never had any battery door broken...
> 
> By the way, has anyone ever used the 6-AA battery adapter for the vertical grip in the camera? Is that any good, peak-power-wise?



I've had four break. One canon, one sony and two yongnuo. And percentage-wise that's 33% of my canon flashes, 100% of my sony flashes and 66% of my yongnuo flashes.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 31, 2020)

I can't say how many AA powered speedlites I have owned/used over the years, but it is dozens, all Canon. I have never broken a battery door, I have broken half a dozen hotshot mounts but that was before they moved to metal ones, and at least half a dozen wide angle diffusers from the 550EX to the 600EX-RT. I've also blown a couple of lamps and had a couple die from battery leakage (if you ever see any suspicious green furring wipe it off with a cotton wool bud soaked in regular vinegar, it neutralizes it).


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## YuengLinger (Feb 1, 2020)

The one reason I haven't bought a version II of the 600ex is because, when used with aftermarket external battery packs, the II doubles the recycle time of the version I. 

I remember reading about this when I was shopping for the battery packs three years ago...By now, I would hope, there might be a new generation of aftermarket battery packs that fixes this issue. But as my Speedlites are all working well, there really wasn't a NEED to get a version II anyway. On camera with the internal batteries I believe it only gets about 10% faster recycle compared to version I. 

So, if there is a new flash coming, I hope it has some truly better and additional features.


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## sulla (Feb 2, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> So, if there is a new flash coming, I hope it has some truly better and additional features.



Functionality wise, stronger would be better. Stronger is always better with flashes.

Feature wise, besides stronger batteries that eliminate the use of external power packs and AI (perhaps), I don't miss too much today, but you can always improve on features in an unlimited way. Full rotation would be nice, i.e. rotation without a stop somewhere. AC power adapter would also be nice. Improved cooling. Lighter would be nicer, too. More coloured gels.
But I doubt that better features would make me buy some, the 600s that I have are already near perfect. The 600 mark 1 can even be easier custom colour-geled than the mark 2 one.


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