# Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?



## unfocused (Sep 17, 2012)

Tongue in cheek, yes...but now that we've dispensed with the entry-level full frame camera, how about something _*I*_ care about – the 7DII.

Anyone looking at the features of the 6D can see it pretty much guarantees that Canon has no intention of dropping the 7D. So, trying to be realistic here: what features do you expect/hope to see in the 7D?

My list is short: Less noise at ISO 1600-6400; an even better autofocus; a little more weatherproofing; CF Card slot (don't care if they also include an SD, but I wants my CF); and that ability to control the camera through your smartphone using WiFi.

Give me that, and I'll call it good. Bonus points for a touchscreen interface (know this isn't popular with the Luddites, but I find the current menu/click wheel system painfully slow and not intuitive. I presume Canon would keep the click wheels, but give users the option to control the setting from the touch screen as well. It's no longer new technology – we are on the iPhone 5 for God's sake)

Sadly, I expect the infrared pop up flash controller to disappear as Canon tries to move everyone to the next generation of Speedlites.

They can leave the swivel-screen and the new on-sensor autofocus to the 70D as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not going to pitch a fit if one or both show up.

What makes your short list?


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

next photokina..... until then canon will release firmware updates.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon made it clear some time ago when the announced the big firmware upfrade for the 7D that a 7D Mark II was not coming soon... if ever. Nikon has also killed off the D400 with their D600.
Personally, I think a 7D Mark II is coming, but not this fall.


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## unfocused (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm sure we will be well into 2013 before we see a 7DII. That shouldn't stop anyone from speculating.

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes one year after the 5DIII, just as the 7D came a year after the 5DII. But, from the specs of the 6D, I just don't see how there will not be a 7DII. There are too many people who won't consider the 6D because of the compromises it offers and don't want to invest in a 5DIII, even at $2,700. 

As I've said before, some people buy the biggest car they can find, even if it is underpowered and stripped down. Others go for the compact car with all the extras. Two different markets and two different products. Neither would be satisfied with the other choice, even if the prices are the same.


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## ScottyP (Sep 17, 2012)

unfocused said:


> My list is short: Less noise at ISO 1600-6400; an even better autofocus; a little more weatherproofing; CF Card slot (don't care if they also include an SD, but I wants my CF); and that ability to control the camera through your smartphone using WiFi.
> 
> What makes your short list?



I would buy if they only addressed the noise at 1600-6400, even if that was the only change. SOLD. DONE. HAPPY. If 3200 or 6400 could look like 400 looks today on my T3i, say. What's 3 or 4 stops of improvement between friends, hmm?


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## daniela (Sep 17, 2012)

*NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*

Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?

What a pity.
6D with only 11 AF filds and an slow sensor....
I am looking for an new FAST camera.

Canon does it not have by now


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## crasher8 (Sep 17, 2012)

You just got firmware, enjoy it for a while.


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## dash2k8 (Sep 17, 2012)

I want video record start and stop via remote cord. Would a flip screen mess things up a bit? I like the flip screens on the lower ends, which allow me to go wet-belly.


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## bdunbar79 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*



daniela said:


> Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?
> 
> What a pity.
> 6D with only 11 AF filds and an slow sensor....
> ...



A slow sensor? What does that mean?


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## coreyhkh (Sep 18, 2012)

if the only think them improved was lower noise and tweaked the AF that I would be happy to buy a new one.


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## dtaylor (Sep 18, 2012)

My wish list?

* Cleaner and more detailed 1600/3200; consistently usable 6400. I would love to see a 1-2 stop improvement in noise at the high end and a 1-2 stop improvement in DR at the low.

* 63-point AF from 5D3.

* ETTR metering option in RAW that lets me set the percent of the frame that can blow to white. The meter should then intelligently expose to the right for me. The percent-white option is critical to prevent specular highlights from killing the attempt to ETTR.

* Kill the mode dial. Let me choose the mode on the screen and thereby have *unlimited* named custom modes. Heck, let me assign default modes to memory cards, i.e. if I insert this card I want to default to "My Landscape" or "My Surf Settings".

* Aperture based micro adjustment profiles for lenses. In other words, let me fine tune the AF at each aperture through f/5.6. Properly used this would make AF with fast primes much more reliable. (Their focal plane shifts as the aperture stops down.)

* Infrared *and* radio flash control.

* Even better weather sealing. (I've had one failure under conditions where my 7D was soaked, but it came back to life after an hour in the sun. Still it was very unnerving. I'm pretty sure the point of failure was the rear joystick. Admittedly the joystick on mine was a bit touchy from day one, so maybe the seal just isn't right on my copy.)

* Flip screen would be nice IF it did not compromise weather sealing.

* 10 fps would be nice but not necessary, 8 fps is very good.

* Touch screen would be nice but not necessary.

* Dual card slots would be nice.

If Canon has a clue, they will get Apple to let them install iOS and open their DSLRs to apps. If they can't get Apple to do it and/or Apple costs too much, Android is fine to. If I were high up in Canon corporate I would make this happen ASAP. But as a user it's not as critical to me as the rest. I just think it's a major missed opportunity among all the vendors. No camera made has a UI or feature set that can touch what's possible once you open the camera hardware up to one of those two OSes.


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## unfocused (Sep 18, 2012)

ScottyP said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > My list is short: Less noise at ISO 1600-6400; an even better autofocus; a little more weatherproofing; CF Card slot (don't care if they also include an SD, but I wants my CF); and that ability to control the camera through your smartphone using WiFi.
> ...



Hah! Well honestly, ISO 800 isn't terrible. If 3200 looked like 800 that would be great in my book and I would probably be content with just one to 1 1/2 stops (but I don't want Canon to know that's all they have to do.)


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## dtaylor (Sep 18, 2012)

Since I'm obviously dreaming (some of my wishes will never come true)...

I suppose this would have to go on a flash, but...I want to have user selectable (on/off), IR rangefinder AF for the center AF point, just like on the old 35mm P&S bodies from the 1980's. This type of AF system is 100% spot on accurate in total darkness and the time to compute distance is identical regardless of lighting or subject contrast. This would be *killer* when using fast primes in dim light.

This single feature would give Canon such a huge advantage for weddings, concerts, clubs, and street that people would literally jump to Canon just for this feature. I can't figure out why this old but reliable technology has completely escaped the notice of today's engineers. (Note: I'm not talking about faint red lines to assist the camera's AF module. I'm talking about bouncing an IR beam off the subject to find the distance to target.)


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## Rockets95 (Sep 18, 2012)

unfocused said:


> So, trying to be realistic here: what features do you expect/hope to see in the 7D?
> 
> My list is short: Less noise at ISO 1600-6400; an even better autofocus; a little more weatherproofing; CF Card slot (don't care if they also include an SD, but I wants my CF); and that ability to control the camera through your smartphone using WiFi.
> 
> What makes your short list?



Everything on your list plus more Dynamic Range, and I'd be good!


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## Helevitia (Sep 18, 2012)

Better AF, usable ISO above 400 up to 6400 would be nice, real autofocus for movies. 1080p @ 60fps, USB 3.0(or thunderbolt), 8-way multicontroller within its rear dial just like 60D and 6D, and dual CF/SD slots. 

That's pretty much my dream camera.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*



daniela said:


> Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?
> 
> What a pity.
> 6D with only 11 AF filds and an slow sensor....
> ...


Did you expect a new 7D? Did you expect a Nikon D400? Maybe in 6 months or maybe never. Canon just did something they haven't done before, they completely updated the 7D Firmware. This is telling us not to expect a new body in the near future.
APS-C sensors do not play well at high ISO's, there is no new technology to magically change that. Tiny improvements happen with lower noise amplifiers and better noise reduction, but don't expect any substantial improvements in ISO capability. 
The 6D goes to ISO 25600, thats as good as anything in that price range.


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## DB (Sep 18, 2012)

With regard to timing - a new 7D2 announced in September 2013 and a new crop-sensor flagship body in March 2013 first, don't know if it will be called the 70D especially not if Canon also release their annual xxxD/xxxxD spring offerings around the same time i.e. 700D/1200D. I cannot see Canon launch a 70D and a 700D - the difference of just one numeral (zero) would be too confusing. Instead we could see a 60D Mark II 

Either way, I do not believe that the next variant of the 7D will be an APS-C camera. I believe that it will be an APS-H 27MP or 40MP sensor with dual DIGIC5+ chips, a fixed 3" 3:2 LCD, but with Wi-Fi & GPS onboard, usable 6400 ISO (possibly 12800 ISO for video purposes), very fast high speed shooting say 12 fps and it will have to have a new AF system, but could be very similar to the 45-point AF used on the 1DIV. Initial price circa $2,500

With the improvement in teleconverters and telephoto lenses (such as 300mm & 400mm @ f2.8 and the 500mm & 600mm @ f4) a reduction in the crop focal multiplier from 1.6x to 1.3x will not matter that much to wildlife and sports action shooters -> they'll still have extra reach + extra megapixels for additional cropping in post.

I think that this would round out (complete) the Canon EOS Digital Interchangeable Lens Camera line quite nicely.


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## meli (Sep 18, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Canon made it clear some time ago when the announced the big firmware upfrade for the 7D that a 7D Mark II was not coming soon... if ever. Nikon has also killed off the D400 with their D600.
> Personally, I think a 7D Mark II is coming, but not this fall.



true, i do believe though that there is a place & a market for pro APS-Cs

As for wishlist, a full stop in noise & DR and clean 100, dual drive and some mini tweaks (damned spotlinked metering ffs!)


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## dr croubie (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*

Thank god they upgraded the 7D firmware.
Although, even without it, the 7D is still a fine camera.
And i'm glad it is, because there's nothing I can afford that's an upgrade (5D3 is a nice low-light event upgrade, 1D4 is a nice sports-upgrade, but they're both $3k. D600/D800 are also nice upgrades, but they'll cost a lot more than $3k to replace lenses).

And i doubt the 7D2 is going to be a 'groundbreaking' upgrade, probably not enough to justify any more than a $few hundred nett.
So my current 7D is going to have to last a long long time, probably at least another 3-4 years.


It reminds me of the first computer I bought, it had a Pentium 2 350MHz, 64MB of PC100 RAM, on a 440BX Chipset. I didn't know it at the time, but that chipset took every processor for years. That motherboard lasted me for 6 years, until it ended life as a Tualatin 1.4GHz overclocked to god-knows what, 1GB of PC133 RAM (one of the IDE controllers died, but it had on-board SCSI to tide me over).
I think my 7D is exactly in the same boat. I planned to buy the best that I could afford at the time, which was the 7D. I knew it would last a few years (it's been 2 already), but it's got at least that again before it goes on fleabay (or becomes 'backup').

Long live the 7D mk1.


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## ScottyP (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*




Mt Spokane Photography said:


> daniela said:
> 
> 
> > Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?
> ...




The speedometer on our old 1970's station wagon went to 140 mph when I was a kid. THe car wouldn't actually do that speed unless you drove it off a cliff, and the twisted smoking results would have looked about the same as the 6D will at 25600.


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## DB (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*

Canon have already launched a very fast camera in 2012, the 1DX with 12 shots per second (or 14 with the mirror locked up).

Before Canon launch a 7D2, they have to discontinue the 5D2 before the end of the year (to ensure success of the 6D as the only viable option for xxD/xxxD videographers to upgrade to), then they have to prepare for the launch of the 700D/1200D 18MP crop-sensor cameras (likely to be announced in Feb 2013, available March-April). Next they will turn their attention to a 60D Mark II (some refer to as the 70D). Finally, they will then have to finalize the 7D2 before Photokina 2013

The 7D mark II will obviously be a fast camera (10-12 fps at a minimum) utilizing most likely dual-DIGIC5+ processors, new AF system (could be taken from 1D mk IV) if there is a new APS-H sensor, which in all likelihood will have more megapixels than any other DSLR in the current EOS lineup, my guess is 27MP, usable ISO of 6400 and dual memory card slots (at least one will remain CF)

Whatever Canon have already decided to do for Photokina 2013 (yes they plan about 1-2 years in advance, like most large scale volume manufacturers), they won't tell us now, but will probably leak (drip-feed) some info early summer 2013 once the new Rebels and a new xxD APS-C body have already been announced.

I'm afraid that all of us will have to wait at least another 9 months, before we begin to get accurate rumours or leaks as to what a new 7D Mark II will ultimately look like.


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## canon816 (Sep 18, 2012)

Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever. With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.

But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.


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## crasher8 (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*

I think the 7D FW update was a dead giveaway that there would not be a 7D update in the near future. Didn't you?


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## dtaylor (Sep 18, 2012)

meli said:


> true, i do believe though that there is a place & a market for pro APS-Cs



I hope Canon does not forget this, and shame on Nikon if they have. Even if FF sensor fabrication dropped in price, APS-C sensors are very useful and capable teleconverters. If you need reach and you're focal length limited, you need APS-C.


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## dtaylor (Sep 18, 2012)

canon816 said:


> Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.



No, you'll just continue to get incremental improvements same as FF sensors. The "crop can't do high ISO" meme is old. Today's best crop bodies match yesterday's FF bodies. Tomorrow's crop sensors will match today's FF sensors. Given the same level of technology FF sensors will always collect more light, but that doesn't mean crop won't continue to improve.


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## SJTstudios (Sep 18, 2012)

The thing is, they can't do anything to make the 7d better. It has 18 megapixels which they can't increase or nobody will by the 6d, and everything else is as good as its gonna get unless they want to screw all the other canon cameras on the market. The 7d is supposed to be an wildlife/sport enthusiast camera, they get a decent camera, and an aps-c sensor so they can get a better zoom on wildlife. If people want better, canon wants them to go for an expensive full frame camera and the big l glass. It's all marketing. This also means we won't see a 70d for a while either, since if they bump things up at all, it will be too close to the 7d.


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## brianleighty (Sep 18, 2012)

DB said:


> Either way, I do not believe that the next variant of the 7D will be an APS-C camera. I believe that it will be an APS-H 27MP or 40MP sensor with dual DIGIC5+ chips, a fixed 3" 3:2 LCD, but with Wi-Fi & GPS onboard, usable 6400 ISO (possibly 12800 ISO for video purposes), very fast high speed shooting say 12 fps and it will have to have a new AF system, but could be very similar to the 45-point AF used on the 1DIV. Initial price circa $2,500



I'm pretty sure APS-H is dead. It would be silly to go from APS-C to APS-H since now all there crop sensor lenses don't work anymore. Going full frame makes more sense but it's now not hitting it's target market of those that want a top of the line APS-C camera for birds, sports or other categories where reach is important. With a 40MP sensor it's not going to be able to hit the frame rates of the current due to the massive amount of data. So I highly doubt they'll change from APS-C. The existing crop sensor has been around for quite some time. It makes sense to put that in the 7D II and then trickle it down to the lower bodies.


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## pierceography (Sep 18, 2012)

Personally, at the top of my wish list is the ability to control the camera with a phone (i.e. iOS or Android app). I don't care about the built in hardware, but if Canon were to introduce a dongle that, at the very least, would allow phones to communicate either wirelessly or through a cable. I know you can do this with a laptop, but I rarely carry mine when shooting (who wants to drag around an extra 7lbs?)... especially when an iPad/iPhone has most everything I need in the short term.

But I'm fairly happy with my 5D mark iii and the expanded AEB, which was a huge reason for wanting tethered shooting -- camera shake during HDR exposures and all.

As a slight aside, the only real feature I'm slightly jealous of the 6D having is wifi, since I see this as a possible route to truly controlling the camera wirelessly. Nikon definitely got that one right... :-\


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## nicku (Sep 18, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Canon made it clear some time ago when the announced the big firmware upfrade for the 7D that a 7D Mark II was not coming soon... if ever. Nikon has also killed off the D400 with their D600.
> Personally, I think a 7D Mark II is coming, but not this fall.



Yes, Nikon killed off the D400 with a good camera ( the D600). In Canon case 6D is not even close a 7D line killer.


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## nicku (Sep 18, 2012)

SJTstudios said:


> The thing is, they can't do anything to make the 7d better. It has 18 megapixels which they can't increase or nobody will by the 6d, and everything else is as good as its gonna get unless they want to screw all the other canon cameras on the market. The 7d is supposed to be an wildlife/sport enthusiast camera, they get a decent camera, and an aps-c sensor so they can get a better zoom on wildlife. If people want better, canon wants them to go for an expensive full frame camera and the big l glass. *It's all marketing*. This also means we won't see a 70d for a while either, since if they bump things up at all, it will be too close to the 7d.



Exactly marketing. Give to the people something that only you have ( in this case the APS-H sensor),and they will buy it regardless of the price.... because is unique.
And with this marketing strategy come the things we expect, like better IQ and high ISO noise.


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## al2 (Sep 18, 2012)

pierceography said:


> Personally, at the top of my wish list is the ability to control the camera with a phone (i.e. iOS or Android app). I don't care about the built in hardware, but if Canon were to introduce a dongle that, at the very least, would allow phones to communicate either wirelessly or through a cable. I know you can do this with a laptop, but I rarely carry mine when shooting (who wants to drag around an extra 7lbs?)... especially when an iPad/iPhone has most everything I need in the short term.
> 
> But I'm fairly happy with my 5D mark iii and the expanded AEB, which was a huge reason for wanting tethered shooting -- camera shake during HDR exposures and all.
> 
> As a slight aside, the only real feature I'm slightly jealous of the 6D having is wifi, since I see this as a possible route to truly controlling the camera wirelessly. Nikon definitely got that one right... :-\



The remote control with your phone is already available. See "DSLR Controller" on the Google Play Store. You have to use a USB cable, but it really works. Works for all new Canon cameras and some older ones.


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## daniela (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????*



bdunbar79 said:


> daniela said:
> 
> 
> > Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?
> ...



4,5 vs 8 fps


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## daniela (Sep 18, 2012)

New firmware is ok. But my brother owns an new 5D Mark3. It is an great camera. 
My personal 7D is a little bit tricky. Much noise >800ISO, AF is not always working well. 
I like the 7D, but I want a better one.
Better Noise, maybe some AF-fields more, AF faster.
I don´t have the money to buy an 5D Mark3.


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 18, 2012)

Rockets95 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > So, trying to be realistic here: what features do you expect/hope to see in the 7D?
> ...



So few upgrades on the current 7D? 

I'm afraid the guys at dpreview will write again "this is not a *WOW!* camera".


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## Imagination_landB (Sep 18, 2012)

I think we all agree that better iso performance is THE thing that a new 7d would need. I have a 60d(same sensor) and it's not great after 800 iso...so good iso performance from 100 to 2500 is not much asked when we compare to the newer models? is it?


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## tomscott (Sep 18, 2012)

How about they address noise throughout the range!! It is useable up to 1600 atm but 100-400 is absolutely dreadful! I was shocked when I saw how bad 100ISO is compared to the previous generation.

Maybe I was expecting too much, but I dont know why people are happy with this cameras IQ and noise performance at all. The older cameras might not have the bells and whistles of the 7D but the IQ was better not so much on the 50D but certainly on the 40D. I say bring the MP down to 15-16 and sort it out. Appalling.

Sorry for my rant now, I didn't want a 7D, I wanted to wait a little longer for the 5D MKIII to drop in price in the UK. But my old 40D broke so I replaced it for the mean time. Apart from the AF, FPS and screen I dont see any benefit of this camera over the older generation. It handles great but it is pointless without the IQ and the fact every APC camera in Canons line up is using this sensor... wow.

Still don't understand why people rave about this camera. Or am I missing something!???


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## liberace (Sep 18, 2012)

canon816 said:


> Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever. With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.
> 
> But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.



There has already been a revolution in crop sensor high ISO noise. It's called the D800. The pixel pitch of it's sensor is VERY close to that of the 7D.

4.88µm v 4.3µm - that's only 13.5% difference. For comparison the 5D Mark III has a pixel pitch of 6.5µm - 50% bigger.

You can't tell me that the D800 doesn't have low high ISO noise. It's very competitive with the 5DIII.


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## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 18, 2012)

Won't be buying a crop DSLR anymore, the writing is on the wall for APS-C DSLRs and EF-S lenses. Next round of entry-level FF would prolly be around $1500 (6D should have been at this price point and it would have reduced the whining by 90%). APS-C sensors would be relegated to the MILC, Rebel and xxD line. Most probably one of the APS-C lines would even disappear.


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## brianboru (Sep 18, 2012)

al2 said:


> pierceography said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, at the top of my wish list is the ability to control the camera with a phone (i.e. iOS or Android app). I don't care about the built in hardware, but if Canon were to introduce a dongle that, at the very least, would allow phones to communicate either wirelessly or through a cable. I know you can do this with a laptop, but I rarely carry mine when shooting (who wants to drag around an extra 7lbs?)... especially when an iPad/iPhone has most everything I need in the short term.
> ...



I see that al2 beat me to mentioning "DSLR Controller". I agree that it really works with my 7D and can even control my 40D within the 40D's Liveview limitations.

http://dslrcontroller.com/


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## Bob Howland (Sep 18, 2012)

liberace said:


> canon816 said:
> 
> 
> > Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever. With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.
> ...



However, the D800 does not do 8 or 10FPS. A crop camera is the best/only way of optimizing the following combination of attributes (1) lower price, (2) higher frame rate and (3) smaller pixels (i.e., lots of "pixels per feather"). I currently own a 5D3 and 7D both of which were purchased in the last 6 months. (They replaced a 5D and 40D.) The 7D is used almost exclusively outdoors in comparatively good light with longer lenses to photograph things that move rapidly and unexpectedly. The 5D3 is used for everything else.


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## Black berry (Sep 18, 2012)

Drop the MP's to about 16, Dramatically improve the noise, IQ and DR and upgrade the AF.
To me it's a no brainer! 
BB.


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## liberace (Sep 18, 2012)

Bob Howland said:


> liberace said:
> 
> 
> > canon816 said:
> ...



I agree 100%. I also own a 5D3 and a 7D. I was just pointing out that it is possible to get more out of an APS-C sensor than the 7D gives, at least Sony and Nikon have figured it out. Here's hoping Canon will soon too.


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## canon816 (Sep 18, 2012)

liberace said:


> canon816 said:
> 
> 
> > Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever. With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.
> ...



Sure I can. D800 is on par up through ISO 1600 but at that point it really starts to lag the 5DIII. Compare ISO 3200 and 6400 between these 2 cameras and you will notice that the d800 is far noisier. Not only is it noisier it is more difficult noise to clean up. 

The D800 noise has colorful red pixels and image resolution degrades dramatically as this noise moves in. 

The 5DIII has primarily white noise and retains resolution and detail as noise moves in. This type of noise is very easy to clean up at a very small loss to IQ.

While you will see incremental noise improvement in crop sensors there has certainly not been a revolution. Also, if you were reading through this thread you may have noticed that some folks were asking for ISO 6400 to look like ISO 400 on a t3i. This just isn't going to happen with current sensor tech. 

I'm not brand loyal here... the d800 is a big disappointment in regards to high iso noise, especially considering it is full frame. There are too many pixels crammed onto that sensor.


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## canon816 (Sep 18, 2012)

dtaylor said:


> canon816 said:
> 
> 
> > Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.
> ...



I agree, they will continue to improve... but the key word here is incrementally. I'm just pointing out that the "dreamers" here are looking for a revolution.... and aren't going to get one. Not until the additional features that I mentioned play out and the average person starts to care more about IQ relative to ISO. Remember, the bulk of canon's business is with average customers.... and this type of customer doesnt care as much about high iso capabilities as the prosumer and pro level. At least not yet anyway...


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## Bob Howland (Sep 18, 2012)

liberace said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > liberace said:
> ...



I guess I was arguing with a strawman. I have this uneasy feeling that, instead of selling us a better 7D for $2000-2500, they are going to try to sell a 47MP, 8FPS, $10,000 FF monstrosity based on a 1Dx.


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## x-vision (Sep 18, 2012)

Black berry said:


> Drop the MP's to about 16, Dramatically improve the noise, IQ and DR and upgrade the AF.
> To me it's a no brainer!
> BB.



+1,000,000

Unfortunately, Canon will likely keep the same sensor and AF - and will instead 'improve' the 7D with wireless, GPS, and built-in speakers. :'(

... if the 7D gets an upgrade in the first place. 
Looking at the 6D, Canon might be planning to have all their cameras reduced to Rebels - except for the 5DIII and 1DX.
You have to admit that this is a possibility.


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## Ricku (Sep 19, 2012)

Canon's biggest concern right now is making a high MP / high DR full frame body - something to compete with Nikon's D800.

The 7D2 will probably have to wait.


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## AprilForever (Sep 19, 2012)

The 7D mk II will sadly not likely come until January... .....


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## dr croubie (Sep 19, 2012)

AprilForever said:


> The 7D mk II will sadly not likely come until January *2014*... .....


edited to be more realistic


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## tron (Sep 19, 2012)

Much better performance in high ISO say up to 6400 (improvements in RAW files not JPG only). 10fps. Even better Autofocus. Silent shooting would be nice too.

I believe these improvements would be enough to make it a killer APS-C camera. In fact I would get this instead of a bigger telephoto! And of course we can all dream 

P.S Price around 1.8K tops


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## pierceography (Sep 21, 2012)

brianboru said:


> al2 said:
> 
> 
> > pierceography said:
> ...



How about an iOS (iPhone) app? Far as I know, these don't exist... which is a real shame, since I really don't care for Android.


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## tron (Sep 21, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> AprilForever said:
> 
> 
> > The 7D mk II will sadly not likely come until January *2014*... .....
> ...


 ;D ;D ;D


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## brianleighty (Sep 22, 2012)

tron said:


> Much better performance in high ISO say up to 6400 (improvements in RAW files not JPG only). 10fps. Even better Autofocus. Silent shooting would be nice too.
> 
> I believe these improvements would be enough to make it a killer APS-C camera. In fact I would get this instead of a bigger telephoto! And of course we can all dream
> 
> P.S Price around 1.8K tops



Uh the original was $1699.00 when released. You actually expect them to only add $100 to the price? This is how we get people going thermonuclear when the product ends up being ridiculously expensive in people's minds. Have realistic expectations and then it's not as big a shock when the price comes out. I could see them pricing this the same as the 6D at $2100. Then you have the choice of better AF and body construction or a Full frame with Higher ISO sensitivity. BTW my 5D mark ii is only marginal at 6400 so I wouldn't expect 6400 to be super useful on a crop body. I think if they're smart they might work on something that they have more control over say DR and an increase in MP possibly.


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## Albi86 (Sep 22, 2012)

With that price it'd better be a revolution though.

Just a new sensor and 5d3's AF would make for an incremental upgrade, making that price look ridiculous. Unless the sensor is so good to make Sony execute all their engineers.

Tech advancements are about having more for the same price, not just getting on par with today's standards for +25% price increase. This is what make people thermonuclear.

The 70D/7D2 vs D7100/D400 battle will be another interesting milestone.


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## Gothmoth (Sep 22, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> Have realistic expectations and then it's not as big a shock when the price comes out.



so same sensor same AF, wifi and GPS and a price around 2000$.... 8)


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## tron (Sep 22, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Much better performance in high ISO say up to 6400 (improvements in RAW files not JPG only). 10fps. Even better Autofocus. Silent shooting would be nice too.
> ...


I didn't say perfect at 6400. I said better. And it's only electronics. Cost shouldn't rise much unless *they simply want to profit much more*. The body does not need serious improvements.


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## DB (Sep 22, 2012)

2 things:

(1) PRICE - everyone is once again underestimating what Canon may or may not charge for a 7D2 (if they ever get around to building one). The Canon Marketing executive interviewed by Gordan Laing of CameraLabs @ Photokina, desperately went out of his way to say that although the 6D fits in the numerical range between the 7D and 5D it is NOT a linear product positioning....what does he mean by this? He means the $2099 6D got the '6' designation because it is FF, but he qualified his remarks by stating that it was in essence a FF 60D (for amateurs). This my friends leaves the door wide open for Canon to introduce a 7D mark II for Semi-Professionals (Pro's & serious enthusiasts) and price it significantly above the new 6D. The strict linear interpretation would dictate that in terms of price: 1D > 5D > 7D , however, what Canon employee said indirectly was 6D > 7D does not necessarily have to hold true. Why else would he go to such lengths to stress that 6D is not the same as other xD designations.

(2) FEATURES - everyone wants more DR, better ISO & low-light performance, dual memory cards etc. and are willing to sacrifice MP, accessory features like GPS + WiFi, because most of you already own a Canon DSLR which does not have this whizzy new features (so you won't miss what you've never had) and you wish that your current camera body had better IQ. Canon on the other hand, want to sell new cameras, not just to you guys (existing customers) but to new customers as well, so <18MP is a non-runner as is not having WiFi etc. 


Wanting more (IQ) for less (money) does not compute for Canon -> they'll happily sell you a 1DX


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## Rockets95 (Sep 25, 2012)

JohanCruyff said:


> Rockets95 said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...


Now that I've seen the "bells and whistles" on the 6D, throw in built-in GPS, WiFi, and Smartphone Remote.


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## M.ST (Sep 25, 2012)

I want so see a cf card slot or a CF/SD card slot in it.


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