# DPReview reviews the A7R3



## ahsanford (Nov 22, 2017)

Spoiler alert: they love it. :

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review

I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement. It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip. Am I missing something?

I still contend the grip size/depth + grip proximity to the mount simply do not play with big glass, and a vertical grip does nothing to solve that. In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A


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## ahsanford (Nov 22, 2017)

But meanwhile, from the very same publication, apparently eating stars is still an issue:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3195011528/analysis-the-sony-a7r-iii-is-still-a-star-eater

I'm not an astro person, but FYI if you are.

- A


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## bwud (Nov 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> But meanwhile, from the very same publication, apparently eating stars is still an issue:
> 
> https://www.dpreview.com/news/3195011528/analysis-the-sony-a7r-iii-is-still-a-star-eater
> 
> ...




I am not either, but I am somewhat befuddled that they don’t make the spatial filtering a menu option. I suspect leadership is so sensitive to noise that they don’t want any possibility of people disabling it and then publishing “look how noisy the A7Rii and A7Riii are.”

Note that while the filtering still occurs, by their real world test it’s less impactful than with A7Rii. Perhaps Sony tweaked its aggressiveness due to better overall noise performance.


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## Neutral (Nov 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Spoiler alert: they love it. :
> 
> https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review
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> ...



Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you, but not for a lot of others.
I do not have any issues or inconveniences with the grip on my A9 using big lenses - not with Canon 70-200 or Canon 100-400 with Metabones adaptor and not now with native 100-400 GM lens .
The same will be for a7rIII which I also planning for my a7r2 replacement.
All the advantages for a9 and a7r3 overweight any possible inconveniences.
And as I mentioned earlier the only advantage of my 1DXm2 over Sony a9 is AF-C for single AF point where 1DXm2 is much better and much more reliable than A9. And also that it is solid heavy brick which could be easily used for self defense if required. For the rest a9 is superior to 1DXm2. Also video quality from a9 is amazing and especially when fast AF tracking combined with face recognition. Works extremely well for shooting video of dances especially in very low light at night. So now I am using 1DXm2 only in cases where I need reliable tracking using single AF point for the rest a9 works better for me.
Only people who use both brands (like me) could tell real experience with them.
Comparing specs and pictures do not replace real experience ))
For me I am neutral to any brand - I just use what is more convenient now for me and give better results.


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## ahsanford (Nov 23, 2017)

Neutral said:


> ahsanford said:
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> > *In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand* -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.
> ...



Not exaggerated, just how I feel. I walked into B&H in Manhattan and played around with an A7R2 with some stout f/2.8 zoom on it. It felt like wielding my old 24-70 f/2.8L I on my Canon T1i -- doable but not comfortable or sustainable for long periods. Yes, you don't solely hold your kit with your right hand, but when you do it should be more comfortable and stable.

And the proximity of that smaller grip to the mount is problematic for the GM lenses, which dives out diametrically and leaves little real estate for fingers. (From TDP, below)

But I recognize others are fine with the A7/A9 grips. I'd honestly be fine with it if a 35 f/2 or (tiny double gauss) fast 50 was permanently affixed to it. But people are going to put big f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it, and the grip should reflect that need.

So, yeah. I stand by the grip size / proximity to the mount as that platform's #1 drawback.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 23, 2017)

Neutral said:


> ahsanford said:
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Marked in blue very clearly indicated that's his personal perception, regardless of others.


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## ahsanford (Nov 23, 2017)

And I still don't get why the grip isn't chunkier for other reasons than comfort with big glass -- there's little reason for it _not _to be bigger except for the tiny lens travel crowd. 

See the attached. Unless folks are packing a mirrorless rig with no lens attached, adding a bigger might mean a larger volume of camera, but it will still take up the same amount of space in your bag with a lens attached, and that chunkier grip will net you a larger battery and unlock the top of the grip for an LCD.

- A


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## Woody (Nov 23, 2017)

IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.


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## 9VIII (Nov 24, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Neutral said:
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Seriously, Ahsanford, you should look into changing your grip style. At least sometimes.
If you have pain from using one grip over many years it would probably do you good to change it up.

If I wanted to I could shoot BIF all day using my 400f5.6+1100D firing it with a remote release in my right pocket.
My _arm_ would be tired, but I wouldn't have joint pain.
Granted, I also have a set of big dumbbells sitting beside my chair, but it sounds like I'm using an entirely different muscle set to support my camera, using much larger joints (indicating potential for more longevity).

I definitely agree that the grip size is still virtually irrelevant though. I mean, ideally my next Canon body wouldn't have a grip, I would take a tubular body in a heartbeat (the battery is probably the biggest reason for cameras still having a grip), but as long as the camera has a grip at all the amount that it sticks out forward is far less than the length of almost any lens you would use.


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## bwud (Nov 24, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> And I still don't get why the grip isn't chunkier for other reasons than comfort with big glass -- there's little reason for it _not _to be bigger except for the tiny lens travel crowd.



Business strategy.

Sony leadership cites the ability to be small not as a, but as the number one advantage to the system. So they go all in on small even if to some users, myself included, comfort is negatively impacted. The thickness of the grip I don't find irksome, but I wish it were another 1/2" taller.


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## Neutral (Nov 24, 2017)

Woody said:


> IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to *counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.*


Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially a9 are much more customizable cameras even than 1dxm2.
If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time. And a9 menu is very good - same level of convinience as on 1DXm2.
I've been using both systems for years already and for me such statements are just full nonsence.
Biggest inconvinience and irritation for me is completely different area - no sensor protection from dust during lens replacement. Sensor immidiately gets dust like vaccume cleaner especially if you need to replace lense outdoor. This is generic problem for any mirrorless camera. DSLR is much better in this respect as sensor is behind mirror when you changing lens.
Lense replacemet mode would be great - have protection curtain closing sensor while this mode is activated for lense replacement. And in addition self cleaning method for this protection curtain.
But this requires additional space in camera and some additional mechanical parts that would increase size and cost of the camera.


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## bwud (Nov 24, 2017)

Neutral said:


> If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.



Agreed. I access the menu for exactly 4 reasons:
Toggle Setting Effect on or off depending on ambient light conditions
Format memory card
Toggle RAW quality
Toggle airplane mode and wirelessly transfer photos

When my Riii gets here, I plan to map them all to the new custom menu. I'm also hoping setting effect is mappable to a custom button (I'd use the video button which is finally mappable), and alternately use the 1,2,3 settings memory selections to record that change, as well as uncompressed RAW (it's still annoying that they don't offer lossless compression).

If it works the way I'm planning, I'd only go to the menus to format and initiate wireless transfer, both from the custom menu.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 24, 2017)

Neutral said:


> Woody said:
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> > IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to *counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.*
> ...



I have tried the a7R and the a7RII, and the menus _are_ poorly organized. I'm sure if I adopted the system, I could get used to it.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 24, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Neutral said:
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I was watching a video review on the D850 earlier, good god is that a convoluted drill down menu, I couldn't believe how complex and unintuitive it was.


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## bwud (Nov 25, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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I can navigate the A7Rii menu now, but have never been able to comprehend Nikon’s menus. Regardless, when considering menu functions and overall intuitiveness, I prefer a camera whose menu I have to navigate infrequently more than one whose menu is easily navigable. With my 5Diii, I have previously set up AF settings and assigned them to C modes on the dial so rarely do anything besides format. Similar menu access with my A7Rii, with the additional functions above as well (hopefully made irrelevant with A7Riii).


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## Woody (Nov 25, 2017)

Neutral said:


> Woody said:
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> > IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to *counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.*
> ...



My company owns 3 copies of A7S, 1 copy of A7SII, 1 copy of A7R and 1 copy of A9 with Sony FE 24-70 f/4 and multiple copies of FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS. 

I have used them all. I know what I am talking about.

The A9 is an improvement, but the ergonomics still s***s.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 25, 2017)

bwud said:


> Neutral said:
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> > If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.
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Look forward to hear from you on a7r III. Crossing my fingers on A7s III to have similar specs as 7r III. 

New grip on A9 is much more friendly, especially with f1.4 primes and f2.8 GM lenses. The new battery is awesome. If you can get one extra, shooting all day is no longer an issue. I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for


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## Dylan777 (Nov 25, 2017)

Woody said:


> Neutral said:
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Same feeling when I hold 1dx ii plus 70200f2.8 II L at local Samys ;D


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## bwud (Nov 25, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> bwud said:
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I’ll let you know how it goes. Didn’t pay for expedited shipping but hope to have it early December. Maybe I’ll add a grip to the order.


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## Neutral (Nov 25, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for


It is very difficult to predict , bayer sensor technology almost reached theoretical/technological limit for image quality. Possibly we could expect advances in sensor data processing , maybe global shutter as well.
There is still a lot of things on the way.
I would be interested to see following with the next a9, a9r, a9s.
1. Increase in well capacity so that more photons could be accumilated - for any brand, not only for Sony
This is easier with BSI technology.
2. Implementation of old Sony patent for electronically switched pixel color filters - with that no need for pixel shift to get full sensor resolution, no moire, ability to shoot ful res. monochrome images at any selected light spectrum range. This also could slightly increase sensitivity for red and blue channels.
3. Higher analog DR range - possibly using dual pixel or combining dual shots . There is interesting piece of information regarding new HDR mode on recently announced new Sony medium format sensors, somehow nobody noticed and mentioned that so far. Though no information how this is implemented. The only thing that they compress it into 14 bit possibly using kind of HLG. Not using yet 16bit ADC. This what we will see soon on next deneration of medium format camaras. Hopefully we will see the same on Sony a9r.
4. Have 16 bit ADC if #3 is implemented. Posibly have option to switch between 14 and 16 bit modes.
5. Have losless RAW compression using latest compression technologies, e.g. based on wavelets transforms or methods used in h.265 for video.
6. Have HLG is standard option not only for video but also for still - seems that a7r3 already have that.
7. Have 10bit 4:2:2 internal video recording.
8. Have option for DNG output.
9. Internal timelapse.
10. Internal image focus stacking as on Phase One camera.
11. High ISO improvements, at least 0.5 stops , though seems that it could be difficult to acheive.
12. Night mode - low light sensitivity increase one or two stops using photons multiplication technologies as used in some science sensors, possibly never happen but it is nice to dream about that.
13. Super fast super high resolution GM prime - I would like to see 35mm F1.0 GM AF prime. This would be perfect for night street photography, maybe for astrography as well.
14. And last but not the least - further improvements in AF capabilities , especially fo "Lock on AF mode", which requires icrease in processing power and some pieces of AI technology implementation.


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## Neutral (Nov 25, 2017)

Also I would like to see firmware upgrade from Canon for my 1DXm2 with some additional features to make it more competitive with my Sony a9.
Possible feature additions coul be:
1. Provide HDR mode using dual pixel technology or dual shots with different ISO settings . 3d parties did that for 5Dm III long time back , why Canon refuses to do it directly for their customers?
2. Provide function for reducing image noise using multiexposure functionslity. Something that I described here many years back for 1DX , but done with a single button press insteead of doing some manual manipulations.
3. Internal lens AFMA calibration - to make getting full lens resolution as user friendly as on mirrorles cameras. Even using automated FoCal for that is kind of headache. 
4. Improve video functionality - better codecs, 10bit 4:2:2 internal recording at least for HD and 4k 10bit 4:2:2 for external HDMI recorder.
Not too much. 
To continue to be loyal to Canon need to see that they provide what customers need and be highly competitive.
Now with Sony a9 I get much more from it for much less money than what I get from Canon 1DXm2.
Though there is no doubt that I still have much more confidence in using 1DXm2 and Canon L lens in harsh conditions than for any of the Sony camera.
So I still need my 1DXm2 , just want featurs update to be more happy with that.
So that regardless of which brand I use I can get maximum from any of them and do not need to use two cameras at the same time to complement missing functionality.


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## 3kramd5 (Nov 25, 2017)

I think the holy grail might be global shutter without a negative impact on DR. Stacked sensor tech may eventually facilitate that advance.

Additionally, perhaps some sort of counting camera which drains when saturation is reached and starts over (mathematically working around physical well capacity) for practically limitless dynamic range.


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## bwud (Dec 1, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement. It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip. Am I missing something?



Proximity to lens barrel can be a problem. I have actually gotten a finger stuck once. It was both hilarious and annoying.

That being said the A7R iii grip seems *far *more comfortable. And when I say grip, I mean grip. I don't have the camera yet. But *if *it's like the V-grip, it's way more comfortable. I basically have to squeeze the R2 like a raptor on its prey. The V-grip (yes, unweighted as of yet so it's not a true comparison) fills my hands better. It's night and day.


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## ahsanford (Dec 1, 2017)

bwud said:


> Proximity to lens barrel can be a problem. I have actually gotten a finger stuck once. It was both hilarious and annoying.
> 
> That being said the A7R iii grip seems *far *more comfortable. And when I say grip, I mean grip. I don't have the camera yet. But *if *it's like the V-grip, it's way more comfortable. I basically have to squeeze the R2 like a raptor on its prey. The V-grip (yes, unweighted as of yet so it's not a true comparison) fills my hands better. It's night and day.



Thanks for posting! Those are... A7R2 shots then? 

Nope, I'm not referring to the vertical grip, I'm talking about your first picture in your post -- which describes how I'm holding things almost all the time (I rarely use my vertical grip). In that pic, your hand is turned clockwise too much for me -- it's reminiscent of how I had to hold my heavier L lenses on my old T1i (which has grip not far off from the A7 bodies). I'm not saying you're holding it wrong, I'm saying _that's how the camera is making you hold it._

When I got my 5D3, it was night and day different for the better. I could fully open my hand, and the middle of my hand became a participant in the gripping process -- I wasn't just iron-claw holding it between the butt of my thumb and my fingertips. So my comfort was much higher and I could stably hold heavier things longer with it.

As for lens mount to grip spacing, I think Sony values small much more than Canon, and they wanted to use as much common body componentry as possible between generations. I just can't believe they thought they could step up to huge GM lenses with the same spacing as a super-tiny enthusiast camera. But the A9 and 'III' gen have no excuse for this to still be so close, IMHO.

- A

P.S. Pinky under the bottom is a (small) 5D3 problem as well, I have slightly small to average hand size I'd say but I like a wide spread of fingers and I've actually considered building a Sugru little pinky extension for it.


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## bwud (Dec 1, 2017)

^^ correct, I’m holding an A7R ii in the first few (with an L-bracket which adds a bit of depth even), while the v-grip is for A9 / A7R iii. My hope is that the grip is representative of the feel of A7R iii, but I haven’t taken delivery of the camera yet and have not had hands on an A9.


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## Hflm (Dec 1, 2017)

Woody said:


> Neutral said:
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I use the A9 with grip at weddings and find it very comfortable to use for long stretches of time. I have large hands and don't have any problems. The grip extension is nice, too. Without grip it is too small for me personally. I like the 5div ergonomics best in that case. My wife, however, doesn't mind.

In the meanwhile there is no issue with the menu either, from my side. Lots of customisable buttons and a quick access menu via button press rarely make the need to open the menu at all. And having a personalised menu item now, too, makes every complaint about the menu moot, in my opinion.


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## bwud (Dec 8, 2017)

Some bad news, I can’t feel any difference between the grips of the a7r II and A7r III.

And the good news:

It’s more customizable than I expected. If there is a function you can’t map somewhere I haven’t found it and probably wouldn’t want to map it. The controls feel good, not gimmicky.

It’s responsive. It doesn’t turn on right quick, but once it’s on it goes.

The EVF is beautiful. 

I initially intended to have AF-ON stay default and AEL be for EyeAF. However I discovered that you can map the center press of the joystick (what resets the AF point to center on canons), so I instead put the AF-ON function there (meaning I need not move my thumb after selecting an AF point), and put the EyeAF function on the AF-ON button as well as lens button.

That freed up AEL, which I have toggling between exposure preview and not, a function I had to tediously find in the A7R II menus. Combined with the custom menu, I can’t think of any reason I’d have to navigate the main menu with any regularity.


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## Dylan777 (Dec 8, 2017)

bwud said:


> Some bad news, I can’t feel any difference between the grips of the a7r II and A7r III.
> 
> And the good news:
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Congrats!!! 

Compared to mrk II, how is 6400ISO & 12800ISO? Thanks in advance.

A9 is the only body I have as FF. I'm kinda want 2nd FF body, too lazy swapping 2470 &70200 ;D , but want to see what a7s III has to offer. The a7r III looks very good.


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## bwud (Dec 8, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> bwud said:
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> > Some bad news, I can’t feel any difference between the grips of the a7r II and A7r III.
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I haven’t done much yet beyond set it up and tweak the controls. I’ll shoot some stuff at those ISOs this weekend and shoot you the ARWs


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## jolyonralph (Dec 8, 2017)

I use both the A7RII and the 5DSR almost equally now. Some comments:

I never have a problem adapting to the grip on either camera.

The menus on the Sony are different, not worse, not better, but different. If you've been using Canon all your life of course you'll hate it the first moment you use it. But if you use the camera for a short period of time everything makes sense. 

The ergonomics for the buttons on the A7RII are better than those on the Canon mirrorless offerings (and I use the M5/M6 extensively too)

I generally don't use long lenses with the Sony, mostly it's the 35mm and 55mm sony-zeiss primes. But when I have (Canon 70-200 IS II and metabones adaptor) it didn't feel a problem. The center of gravity is below the lens, not the camera, so the grip size is really inconsequential as long as you're comfortable and can keep the camera steady, which is easy with the A7RII.

The A7RII isn't perfect, neither is the 5DSR. The great thing about having both is being able to use the right tool for the right job.


Having a chunkier body means it won't fit in my coat pocket with the 35mm f/2.8 Zeiss lens.


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## bwud (Dec 8, 2017)

jolyonralph said:


> The A7RII isn't perfect, neither is the 5DSR.



I’d note that perfection is an inappropriate yardstick.

I still largely use my 5Diii for long lenses 200+, though have started shooting 70-200 adapted on my A7Rii (such as below). A lot of what I struggled with using A7Rii has been addressed with the new model. I have yet to see whether with sync port will indeed allow me to drive HSS from my elinchrome monolights. If it does not I may send it back as that was my top priority for an update. I *wish* they would consider making the body 1/2” taller. That would substantially improve handling, IMO.


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## ecqns (Dec 8, 2017)

For those in this thread that do have both the a7r3 and a7r2, I'd love to see a comparison at ISO 100 between the two. Curious to see the DR improvement in real world images.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 8, 2017)

ecqns said:


> For those in this thread that do have both the a7r3 and a7r2, I'd love to see a comparison at ISO 100 between the two. Curious to see the DR improvement in real world images.



Non existent.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=sony_a7rii&attr13_1=sony_a7riii&attr13_2=canon_eos5d&attr13_3=canon_eos5d&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&attr126_1=1&attr171_0=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.7079806529625151&y=-0.5336778954484002


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## ecqns (Dec 8, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> ecqns said:
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> > For those in this thread that do have both the a7r3 and a7r2, I'd love to see a comparison at ISO 100 between the two. Curious to see the DR improvement in real world images.
> ...



I asked for people with both cameras and real world images. I find these jumbled setups distracting to look at.
But last time I checked these studio scenes the new Sony looked comparable to the new Nikon. I'd say that's pretty good then but I'd like to see something like a slightly underexposed quarter tone.


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## bwud (Dec 8, 2017)

ecqns said:


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Comparing dynamic range is challenging to do visually since on all recent cameras it exceeds virtually all displays, meaning you must tone map to see it. If we had 15-stops of capability in the display you might see the differences.

The lower noise of the Riii relative to Rii *should* be advantageous if you desire to push shadows up. That’s rarely my cup of tea, though, and I therefore expect no practical differences with my displays.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7RM2_14,Sony%20ILCE-7RM3_14


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## privatebydesign (Dec 8, 2017)

ecqns said:


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I pointed you to controlled comparisons from somebody with both cameras. No 'real world' images can compare to studio setups when looking for tiny differences in small tonal ranges, that is just a fact, so these kinds of results are the very best (most accurate/illustrative) you are going to get. 'Real world' comparisons invariably include a lot of variables and the results are normally subjective rather than measurable and objective.

Download the samples as RAW files and present them any way you find easiest to digest. The bottles give nice and comparable tonality.

I agree the output looks very good, I also believe anybody that thinks there are useful differences in output now is barking up the wrong tree. An appropriate specialist lens is going to make more impact on final output IQ than a virtually unmeasurable difference in sensor output across brands.

In practical terms, as an example, if you own an A7R MkII and shoot architecture (I know you do) I'd expect using one of the new TS-E's is going to make a larger IQ difference in your deliverables than moving to an A7R MkIII. However if you own a 5D MkII/III are looking to up your game and shoot the same, I'd think an A7R MkIII would be a better investment than a lens. However, when all is said and done now output IQ differences are so small between the D850, 5D MkIV and A7R MkIII, other factors really should be bigger deciding factors.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony%20ILCE-7RM2,Sony%20ILCE-7RM3


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## bwud (Dec 8, 2017)

[quote author=privatebydesign]

In practical terms, as an example, if you own an A7R MkII and shoot architecture (I know you do) I'd expect using one of the new TS-E's is going to make a larger IQ difference in your deliverables than moving to an A7R MkIII. However if you own a 5D MkII/III are looking to up your game and shoot the same, I'd think an A7R MkIII would be a better investment than a lens. However, when all is said and done now output IQ differences are so small between the D850, 5D MkIV and A7R MkIII, other factors really should be bigger deciding factors.
[/quote]

In general I agree with your assessment. In the particular case one could argue the pixel shift brings value to architectural photography. TS-E would *probably* sway me, but it’s a trade between optical distortion and detail/DR/moire-avoidance.


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## bwud (Dec 10, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


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So I shot a couple hundred family photos today, and lo and behold CameraRAW doesn’t support the files yet. There were a few at 6400 which look good in the EVF, but I’ll be in a holding pattern (not a fan of captureone, which does support it).


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