# First Images & More Specifications for the Canon EOS 6D Mark II Leak



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

https://goo.gl/SQz8ka

Besides the photos, *6.5 fps* is a pleasant surprise bordering on near-shocking status. Wow. Only 0.5 fps behind Canon's $3300 staple pro FF rig. 

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*


GPS now confirmed, but I don't think we were really worried about that.

No 4K confirmed. 動画：フルHD、5軸電子手ブレ補正 = Video: Full HD, 5 axis *electronic* image stabilization

(Keep your britches on -- see emphasis above -- electronic IBIS for video is not proper/real-deal IBIS like the competitors, lest we forget)

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*


Full translation from Google:

Number of pixels: 26.2 million pixels
Dual pixel CMOS AF
AF point: 45 points cross type
Continuous shooting: 6.5 fps
Maximum ISO sensitivity: 40000 (extended ISO: 102400)
Video: Full HD, 5 axis electronic image stabilization
Rear liquid crystal: 3.0 type Bali angle angle liquid crystal, touch panel
Wi-Fi · Bluetooth installed
Built-in GPS
Size: 144.0 x 110.5 x 74.8 mm
Weight: 765 g

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Only major things we don't know now: 


Max shutter speed

Flash sync speed
Buffer size
If you can do some 5D4 things that aren't top-line specs: DPRAW, AF selection on the touchsreen with your thumb while you are shooting through the OVF, etc.


Did I miss anything?

- A


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## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

did you really have to create a new thread on this?


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

1) If I don't, CR guy sure as hell will. 

2) Threads get cynical/OT/divergent by page 32 ;D and tend to winnow down to just a few regular posters. As much as a new thread might certainly will bring some screaming 4K / single slot people to the table, it will also will bring back the entire forum's attention to this -- and I kind of dig the weird observations they make on Leak Day.

- A


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## matthias (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> Only major things we don't know now:
> 
> 
> Max shutter speed
> ...



Max shutter speed should be 1/4000 according to the picture like the 6D.


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

So, the final verdict on 6D2 nerfing / 'feature based omissions for production positioning and margins reasons' appears to be:

4K: left out
FPS: almost the same as 5D4 (quite a nice surprise)
Two slots: left out
AF: Big bump, but not all the way to 5D4/1DX2 levels (as expected)
Resolution: Bumped, but not all the way to 5D4/1DX2 levels (as expected)
AF joystick: left out
5D-level thumb back thumb wheel: left out
Mfn button: added (nice surprise)
Headphone jack: left out
Large dedicated DoF preview / programmamble button: left out
DPAF: included (and in fairness, expected)
Buffer: Don't know
Max shutter: Don't know (edit) 1/4000 from the photos, but no spec-list level confirmation yet 
Flash sync: Don't know
Shutter durability rating: Don't know

We can argue all day about whether something was left out for space reasons, left out for margins/cost reasons, or left out in a deliberating nerfing, but other than 4K and two slots -- don't get me wrong, a big deal for some -- the 6D2 is shaping up quite competitively to the 5D4 for the price.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



matthias said:


> Max shutter speed should be 1/4000 according to the picture like the 6D.



Good eye! Do they always post the max value in release photos?

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> matthias said:
> 
> 
> > Max shutter speed should be 1/4000 according to the picture like the 6D.
> ...



Yes...and the max native ISO setting. For the 6DII, that's ISO *40,000* (it's 32,000 for the 5DIV).

(Oops, looked at the original 6D in your composite pic the first time.)


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Waaaaaait a minute, I see ISO 40000 in the picture, and that's also what's in the translation from Nokis.hita. 

(I see Neuro you corrected your post.)

Wow, so it will have higher native ISO limits than the 5D4? _6D1 > 5D3 sensor encore?_

- A


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## Act444 (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Looks like a solid upgrade for legacy 6D owners. 

The lack of joystick, AF toggle and DOF button still puts it at a significant disadvantage to the 5D3/5D4 for action and sport shooting, but it may be a good option for travel (smaller and much lighter than 5D) if FF quality is desired/required.


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Act444 said:


> Looks like a solid upgrade for legacy 6D owners.
> 
> The lack of joystick, AF toggle and DOF button still put it at a significant disadvantage to the 5D3/5D4 for action and sport shooting, but it may be a good option for travel (smaller and much lighter than 5D) if FF quality is desired/required.



AF toggle? It got the Mfn button from the 5D line by the shutter, didn't it?

(Am I missing something? That's how I toggle through AF selection options through the viewfinder on my 5D3.)

- A


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## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Act444 said:


> Looks like a solid upgrade for legacy 6D owners.
> 
> The lack of joystick, AF toggle and DOF button still puts it at



AF toggle is there. DOF looks like it's on the side of the mount, grip side.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> So, the final verdict on 6D2 nerfing / 'feature based omissions for production positioning and margins reasons' appears to be:
> 
> 4K: left out
> FPS: almost the same as 5D4 (quite a nice surprise)
> ...



seriously? 

AF joystick wasn't left out because of feature segmentation. you want an articulated screen, you don't get a joystick.

what's with you and calling it nerfed. did you expect the same features and specs as the 5D Mark IV or even the 5D Mark III that both sold for nearly 75% more at their release?


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



rrcphoto said:


> Act444 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like a solid upgrade for legacy 6D owners.
> ...



+1 DOF is even on Rebels, it's just tiny and awkward to handle. I'm guessing the small size of the 6D2's would imply that it is also not programmable like the 5D line. Seems fair.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



rrcphoto said:


> what's with you and calling it nerfed. did you expect the same features and specs as the 5D Mark IV or even the 5D Mark III that both sold for nearly 75% more at their release?



Nerfing happens, but surely I am not arguing _everything in red above_ can claim that as the culprit. In many cases, the red stuff above is simply what it takes to offer a $1999 rig at the margins they want (or to cram all that tech into such a small package)

But no headphone jack, single slot, etc. miiiight get the nerfing committee all wound up. The headphone jack is bone cheap and not a huge footprint space wise, and it's possible that Canon has critical market research to say 'folks absolutely will pay more for two slots so let's leave it out of the 6D level to sell more 5D4s', but that's just speculation on my part.

Don't start calling me K. : I'm just saying that Canon partakes in _some _deliberate/tactical gamesmanship above and beyond basic cost/margin targets.

- A


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## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > what's with you and calling it nerfed. did you expect the same features and specs as the 5D Mark IV or even the 5D Mark III that both sold for nearly 75% more at their release?
> ...



in other words, the same as the 6D it's replacing.

I think there's more to niggle when things are dropped from cameras that are replacing older ones. such as the D7500 going down to single slot,etc. hard to complain too much when that's what the 6D had before.

Single slot is in a way a surprise more than others because both the D610 and D750 had dual slots and you should be positioning the 6D II in between those two cameras.

fun fact.. the RRP of the D610 was $1999 and the D750 was $2299 - a little more clarity to where canon sees the fit.


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Yes, the word "nerfing" is thrown around _much_ too easily these days, and largely now means "this isn't the perfect camera for cheap". I'd argue that nothing on the 6D2 counts as "nerfed"; it's a continuation of the 6D1 which was very successful. It's not a video camera (being able to take video does not make it a video camera), so I wouldn't expect a headphone jack. The 6D1 had a single card slot, and 1/4000 shutter, and so on. This follows that formula and adds increased AF points, resolution, ISO, adding DPAF, and I'm sure some other improvements for a very good price.

They'll sell by the truckload to mostly very happy people, and a couple of dozen people online will keep whining.


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## candyman (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*


and...is center point sensitive to -4 EV? That would be a step up from the Canon 5D MKIV.

and...EC in manual mode when using auto iso?


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## foo (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Bluetooth.... That's a total dealbreaker... Canon have went out ot their way to nerf this camera by adding bluetooth. The D750 doesn't have bluetooth and it's soooooo superior to anything Canon could ever do, so this MUST be deliberate nerfing on Canon's part.....

  :'(

Shirley nobody is humour impaired enough to think I'm serious... but in this forum you never know


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## vangelismm (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

What is the cover/hole just bellow the release lens button?


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## foo (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

On a more serious note, there's probably no real surprises here, nice incremental improvements all round.

The one omission that I'd have liked to have seen would have been USB3 - I've got far too used to simple and fast downloading of images through the USB3 on the 5D4 while never having to remove the card form the camera that it's the one thing I'd likely miss the most.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Someone said the 6DII is a nerfed camera?


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## foo (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



vangelismm said:


> What is the cover/hole just bellow the release lens button?



It's the remote release, moved to the front in the same place as the 5D4


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## chrysoberyl (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



rrcphoto said:


> did you really have to create a new thread on this?



I'm glad he did; the other threads got side-tracked, cluttered and sullied by whiners.

I'm getting this camera.


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## chrysoberyl (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> 1) If I don't, CR guy sure as hell will.
> 
> 2) Threads get cynical/OT/divergent by page 32 ;D and tend to winnow down to just a few regular posters. As much as a new thread might certainly will bring some screaming 4K / single slot people to the table, it will also will bring back the entire forum's attention to this -- and I kind of dig the weird observations they make on Leak Day.
> 
> - A



And I thank you.


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## foo (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> color=green]Mfn button: added (nice surprise)[/color]



Not labeled as M-Fn, so possibly not programmable ? Given the symbol, it may be a single function AF area selection button, so likely good enough for most even if not programmable?


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## james75 (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> Waaaaaait a minute, I see ISO 40000 in the picture, and that's also what's in the translation from Nokis.hita.
> 
> (I see Neuro you corrected your post.)
> 
> ...



So is it safe to say this will have a better sensor than the mark iv with the higher native ISO? That'd be awesome.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



james75 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Waaaaaait a minute, I see ISO 40000 in the picture, and that's also what's in the translation from Nokis.hita.
> ...



just means that DIGIC 7 is a little better at NR than the DIGIC 6 processor in the 5D Mark IV. it really has no bearing on much.

JPEG's FTW.


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## Sporgon (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

No user interchangeable screen by the looks of the front pic. Aaaargh - I want one.

Canon is *******.


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## Stichus III (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

The lack of an AF joystick should not be a problem if the 6D mark II has Touch and Drag AF like on the M5 and M6.


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## Khalai (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



james75 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Waaaaaait a minute, I see ISO 40000 in the picture, and that's also what's in the translation from Nokis.hita.
> ...



Original 6D was also a wee bit better than 5D3. So this just follows the trend


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## hbr (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



LonelyBoy said:


> Yes, the word "nerfing" is thrown around _much_ too easily these days, and largely now means "this isn't the perfect camera for cheap". I'd argue that nothing on the 6D2 counts as "nerfed"; it's a continuation of the 6D1 which was very successful. It's not a video camera (being able to take video does not make it a video camera), so I wouldn't expect a headphone jack. The 6D1 had a single card slot, and 1/4000 shutter, and so on. This follows that formula and adds increased AF points, resolution, ISO, adding DPAF, and I'm sure some other improvements for a very good price.
> 
> They'll sell by the truckload to mostly very happy people, and a couple of dozen people online will keep whining.



I also don't like the term, "nerfed." It implies that Canon is playing games with its customers for a selfish motive. I don't believe that they are doing that at all. I believe Canon has a tremendous amount of experience with marketing. I believe the executives, financial people and engineers found a good money making opportunity with the 6D line and decided what features would sell and what price point would sell the most cameras. That means adding enough new technology to excite potential customers and using some pre-developed technology to lower the cost of the camera.
Do we want more features? Of course, we will always want more. Will we be somewhat disappointed if we don't see the features we want? Of course we will. But just because the camera does not have all the features I want doesn't mean that Canon is" nerfing" the camera.
A camera is just a tool to take photos. If this tool doesn't work for you, then go out and buy the tool that you need.

My 2 cents worth.

Brian


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## NorbR (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Sporgon said:


> No user interchangeable screen by the looks of the front pic.



Indeed, doesn't look good 

Oh well, that might have just saved me $2000. I don't need another body but that spec list was starting to look a bit too enticing. I do need that precision focus screen though...


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## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



hbr said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the word "nerfing" is thrown around _much_ too easily these days, and largely now means "this isn't the perfect camera for cheap". I'd argue that nothing on the 6D2 counts as "nerfed"; it's a continuation of the 6D1 which was very successful. It's not a video camera (being able to take video does not make it a video camera), so I wouldn't expect a headphone jack. The 6D1 had a single card slot, and 1/4000 shutter, and so on. This follows that formula and adds increased AF points, resolution, ISO, adding DPAF, and I'm sure some other improvements for a very good price.
> ...


I also agree. When one throws terms like Nerfed, Crippled, or Fanboy into a conversation, they come with a lot of emotional baggage (that varies from person to person) and makes it harder to get your point across as the moment they see Nerfed, it sets a tone that usually gets associated with extreme (and often unreasonable) viewpoints that spawns even more extreme responses..... How can one recover from that?


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## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

The IBIS for video seems interesting, particularly for someone who shoots a lot from a canoe.....

It sounds to me like a feature being prepared for mirorrless cameras.... I wonder if it will work in live View?

I am eagerly awaiting the real spec sheets.


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## IglooEater (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Thank so for the info and analysis Alan. I sure hope that's all correct- I nearly fell over backwards when I saw 6.5 fps!


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## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

I was looking at the 6D2 image and I can see two plastic seams on the top..... could this indicate the presence of a pop-up flash?


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## Macoose (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*

Ahsanford,

Thanks for posting these specs!

Macoose


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## rrcphoto (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Don Haines said:


> I was looking at the 6D2 image and I can see two plastic seams on the top..... could this indicate the presence of a pop-up flash?



no flash button.


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## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



rrcphoto said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I was looking at the 6D2 image and I can see two plastic seams on the top..... could this indicate the presence of a pop-up flash?
> ...



Not that I can see either, but the top really looks like it is designed as a pop-up, particularly when the 6D did not have those seams.....


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## erickmoreno (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



5D MK IV has the same marks and no flash.


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## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



erickmoreno said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...


That makes sense now.... I really couldn't see it having a pop-up flash that fit in there, but the seams confused me.


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## PureClassA (Jun 22, 2017)

Well now with the FPS figure confirmed at 6.5, this appears to be a pretty substantial upgrade from the first in every major aspect. This is a solid product release for Canon. Impressive!!


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## PureClassA (Jun 22, 2017)

Also gotta love the seemingly beefier right hand grip particularly around the trigger. It really looks even more like they took a 5D body and built another 5D3 with an improved sensor and articulating touch screen LCD ...and then slashed the price to under $2000. There should be ZERO complaints with this. It's really something special


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## PureClassA (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Don Haines said:


> I was looking at the 6D2 image and I can see two plastic seams on the top..... could this indicate the presence of a pop-up flash?



Highly doubtful. I think this is just how Canon is currently molding the bodies on the line now.


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## DslmNut (Jun 22, 2017)

Clean HDMI output? 
422 8 bit 1080 output?


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## mahdi_mak2000 (Jun 22, 2017)

according to the pictures It seems that they kept the magnesium alloy for body which is a good news.
what make me surprised is notable amount of change in the body. 
not sure why they changed the body alot.


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## mahdi_mak2000 (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Don Haines said:


> I was looking at the 6D2 image and I can see two plastic seams on the top..... could this indicate the presence of a pop-up flash?



no, the top is plastic to accommodate GPS signal . no FLASH here indeed


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## roast_pigeon (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> Full translation from Google:
> 
> Number of pixels: 26.2 million pixels
> Dual pixel CMOS AF
> ...



No headphone socket? 

What about HDMI output? Ooops, saw it. Forget this one

No built-in flash?


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## Etienne (Jun 22, 2017)

Nice looking camera, but USB 2? Did I sleep through 10 years? Please let it die!


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## Chaitanya (Jun 22, 2017)

So Canon finally managed(barely) match Nikon's D750 maybe in 4 years time we will find a competitor to Nikon D760.

Still single SD slot, no USB type-C or USB 3.x, no 4k video no touch to drag AF.


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## roast_pigeon (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> Full translation from Google:
> 
> Number of pixels: 26.2 million pixels
> Dual pixel CMOS AF
> ...



Another thing, is there a built-in flash? Doesn't look like it has in the pics.


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## Etienne (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Don Haines said:


> The IBIS for video seems interesting, particularly for someone who shoots a lot from a canoe.....
> 
> It sounds to me like a feature being prepared for mirorrless cameras.... I wonder if it will work in live View?
> 
> I am eagerly awaiting the real spec sheets.



I doubt that it is a moving sensor. Canon claims 5 axis stabilization of the T7i and M6 etc, but it is only when combined with specific Canon lenses, and the sensor based part is digital stabilization, which can be done in post, and probably better.


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## mahdi_mak2000 (Jun 22, 2017)

I can smell of a OVF/EVF hybrid....
fingers crossed


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## rrcphoto (Jun 22, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> So Canon finally managed(barely) match Nikon's D750 maybe in 4 years time we will find a competitor to Nikon D760.
> 
> Still single SD slot, no USB type-C or USB 3.x, no 4k video no touch to drag AF.




the D760 will be more than the 6D II... the 6D II will probably be around the same price as the D620. so stop whining.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 22, 2017)

PureClassA said:


> Also gotta love the seemingly beefier right hand grip particularly around the trigger. It really looks even more like they took a 5D body and built another 5D3 with an improved sensor and articulating touch screen LCD ...and then slashed the price to under $2000.* There should be ZERO complaints with this.* It's really something special



this is the Internet. there will be alot of complaints.


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## captainkanji (Jun 22, 2017)

Love the Mfn button addition. I've missed it since the 7D. Unless the 6DII plays MP3s, I'm not interested in head phone jack. Looks like a nice upgrade from the original. Have they confirmed changeable focusing screens?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



PureClassA said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I was looking at the 6D2 image and I can see two plastic seams on the top..... could this indicate the presence of a pop-up flash?
> ...



IMHO, Canon reshapes the bodies so they can sell new battery grips. It would be a huge hit to profits if older grips fit the new cameras. They seldom make that mistake.


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## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Also gotta love the seemingly beefier right hand grip particularly around the trigger. It really looks even more like they took a 5D body and built another 5D3 with an improved sensor and articulating touch screen LCD ...and then slashed the price to under $2000.* There should be ZERO complaints with this.* It's really something special
> ...



It does not shoot 4K.....
It does not have two card slots....
It does not have a headphone jack....

Nobody cares that it has improvements in sensor performance, frame rate, or the AF system. Nobody cares about that stuff when they look for a camera....

You would have to be an idiot to buy this camera.....

When can I place my pre-order?


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## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


On the other hand, they sure have been using the LP6 battery for a long time......


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## mdmphoto (Jun 22, 2017)

"I have GOT to get me one of these!!!" (Will Smith, Independence Day)


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## Point22 (Jun 22, 2017)

Time Lapse video 4K output?? Yesss!!  i dont need more


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## Point22 (Jun 22, 2017)

Grip more rough.. 2x SD ? Maybe


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## rrcphoto (Jun 22, 2017)

Point22 said:


> Grip more rough.. 2x SD ? Maybe



Nope.

the top plate LCD doesn't have room for the dual slot indicators.


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## ethanz (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



neuroanatomist said:


> Someone said the 6DII is a nerfed camera?



Does that mean you can throw it and it won't hurt anyone or damage the camera?


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## Point22 (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ethanz said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Someone said the 6DII is a nerfed camera?
> ...



Next to the Bluetooth indikator?  

Btw SD cap have another color and material as body  PhotoShop? Why?


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## TeT (Jun 22, 2017)

Will the AF have selectable Zones?


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## magarity (Jun 22, 2017)

*look at that usb port!*

Holy smokes, still mini-usb? I thought my 6D was odd to have that instead of micro usb. I know better than to expect usb-c but now mini is downright ancient.


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## erickmoreno (Jun 22, 2017)

TeT said:


> Will the AF have selectable Zones?



Yes. The button to select between modes (single, zone or all) is there.


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## bereninga (Jun 22, 2017)

Does the articulating screen compromise weathersealing at all compared to the current 6D?


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## Luds34 (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



foo said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > color=green]Mfn button: added (nice surprise)[/color]
> ...



And that appears to be exactly what that is. Same on the 70D I had and one wouldn't want to change that anyway. Very welcome on a more advanced AF system that it appears we're getting.


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## Luds34 (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



The front appears rounded, one can even make out the Canon logo. Pop up flash is pointed front. Obviously "who knows" but I'd argue it appears NO on the pop up flash.


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## Luds34 (Jun 22, 2017)

Assuming all the rumored specs are true, then there is really nothing more to know. Sure some folks are asking about flash sync, mas shutter. However, I don't really expect those to change, and as I've referenced before, those don't come into play 99.7% of the time. Only good for specsmanship arguments on the interwebs.

I think this looks like a solid camera and those that know/remember I sold my 6D a few weeks ago in anticipation of this release. Unless something drastically changes I'm in the "pre-order" camp at this point.


----------



## PBguy (Jun 22, 2017)

I'm very glad to hear that it will have GPS. That is a feature I use regularly. I'm already on a pre-order list and looking forward to getting my hands on it.


----------



## Etienne (Jun 22, 2017)

What is the mystery connection socket on the front?
Guesses?


----------



## RandomRazr (Jun 22, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Assuming all the rumored specs are true, then there is really nothing more to know. Sure some folks are asking about flash sync, mas shutter. However, I don't really expect those to change, and as I've referenced before, those don't come into play 99.7% of the time. Only good for specsmanship arguments on the interwebs.
> 
> I think this looks like a solid camera and those that know/remember I sold my 6D a few weeks ago in anticipation of this release. Unless something drastically changes I'm in the "pre-order" camp at this point.



how coe u wont consider the 5D IV?


----------



## magarity (Jun 22, 2017)

RandomRazr said:


> how coe u wont consider the 5D IV?


I'm just guessing but at an estimated msrp for the 6Dii of $1999 means there are about 1300 reasons to get one instead of the 5Div.


----------



## hbr (Jun 22, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> When can I place my pre-order?



Right after I place my order. ;D


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 22, 2017)

RandomRazr said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming all the rumored specs are true, then there is really nothing more to know. Sure some folks are asking about flash sync, mas shutter. However, I don't really expect those to change, and as I've referenced before, those don't come into play 99.7% of the time. Only good for specsmanship arguments on the interwebs.
> ...



I've considered it. Just overkill for my needs. The 5D is better for action/sports, etc. When I was younger I took far too many shots. Now my process is more thought out, more conservative, only pulling the trigger when I like the shot, the moment, etc. At least more so. I don't need high FPS, large buffer, 1/8000 SS, etc. The 6D is a better fit and saves me $1k+. That means a nice 3 day weekend somewhere.


----------



## hbr (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



roast_pigeon said:


> Another thing, is there a built-in flash? Doesn't look like it has in the pics.



The original 6D did not have a popup flash so I don't expect this version to have one either.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

Etienne said:


> What is the mystery connection socket on the front?
> Guesses?


I am guessing that it is for the add on module that enables 8K shooting and has an additional two card slots.... it certainly would not be for a remote control terminal like on the 5D4......


----------



## Rockskipper (Jun 22, 2017)

Well shoots, looks like my savings is going to take a hit pretty soon.


----------



## honestlo (Jun 22, 2017)

everything is fine expect without 4K.

If it released two years before, I can totallly accept but not today.


----------



## hbr (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Don Haines said:


> I also agree. When one throws terms like Nerfed, Crippled, or Fanboy into a conversation, they come with a lot of emotional baggage (that varies from person to person) and makes it harder to get your point across as the moment they see Nerfed, it sets a tone that usually gets associated with extreme (and often unreasonable) viewpoints that spawns even more extreme responses..... How can one recover from that?



Hi Don,
I have read your response several times and I am not sure of your conclusion. As for extreme or unreasonable comments or posts, if I have something to say, I say it once after that I try to stop responding so as not to add fuel to the fire. 
My thoughts are that if you are on top looking down as many on this forum are, a certain missing item may appear to make the camera "crippled" or "nerfed," but if you are at the bottom with a small budget looking up, you might be glad that this item is missing so that you are not paying for something you will never use.

Brian


----------



## hbr (Jun 22, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > What is the mystery connection socket on the front?
> ...


----------



## shelms488 (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> Only major things we don't know now:
> 
> 
> Max shutter speed
> ...



Question, are you saying that one can select the autofocus point that is being used/visible in the OVF by simply moving my finger across the screen on the EOS 5D mark IV? is this a feature that needs to be enabled?


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Etienne said:


> What is the mystery connection socket on the front?
> Guesses?



I believe it's the cable release. They did the same thing with the 5D4 -- here's the word TDP on that feature (from the 5D4 review):
_
"Squeezed out of the side port area is the N3 remote release port. You will notice this port now residing on the bottom-left front of the camera in the above product image. As this is my most-frequently-used port, I think this new location works great, especially when I'm using an L-bracket (which is nearly always)."_

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> So Canon finally managed(barely) match Nikon's D750 maybe in 4 years time we will find a competitor to Nikon D760.
> 
> Still single SD slot, no USB type-C or USB 3.x, no 4k video no touch to drag AF.



No touch to drag AF? We do not know that yet, do we?

- A


----------



## pinoyplaya4life (Jun 22, 2017)

Eletronic Image Stabilization? Really? WTF! My 5D4 doesnt even have that!


----------



## Chaitanya (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > So Canon finally managed(barely) match Nikon's D750 maybe in 4 years time we will find a competitor to Nikon D760.
> ...


Nikon D5500 has it for selecting AF points using touch screen when looking through viewfinder. Most recent Mirrorless cameras also have it. 
On a side note: That touch screen function on D5500 can be set to : Iso selection, and white balance selection other than AF point selection. Also it would be really useful for EOS XXXD series of cameras as they dont have direct af point selection mode.


----------



## Woody (Jun 22, 2017)

The weight (765g) and lack of on-board flash are rather disappointing to me. It doesn't matter since I am not in the market to replace my 6D anyway.


----------



## Talys (Jun 22, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Assuming all the rumored specs are true, then there is really nothing more to know. Sure some folks are asking about flash sync, mas shutter. However, I don't really expect those to change, and as I've referenced before, those don't come into play 99.7% of the time. Only good for specsmanship arguments on the interwebs.
> 
> I think this looks like a solid camera and those that know/remember I sold my 6D a few weeks ago in anticipation of this release. Unless something drastically changes I'm in the "pre-order" camp at this point.



I agree -- we pretty much know all the spec stuff that matters. There's still the burning question of how good the sensor is, especially since it's a brand new one. I suspect that for me, it will fall between making me very happy, and over-the-moon ecstatic, so I'll hold my breath a little longer 

I'm always super curious as to the quality of life features and changes in the menu and customization systems. These often don't make it to the spec sheet and interweb shouting matches over which camera is superior, but they make a huge difference in how enjoyable (or annoying) a device is to use. There are some other things that never make it to the spec sheets too, that I care about, like WiFi throughput and time to transfer typical RAW files over WiFi. I guess the RAW buffer limit I'm curious about too. 

Since I am not a video shooter -- and would prefer a separate, optimized video device anyways, if it came to it -- and am not quite spendy enough to go 5D4, I think 6D2 will be quite perfect for me. The only purchase question that I have is whether I buy it body only or with a 24-105L option, and go through the trouble of selling off the kit lens... or making it a nice Christmas gift for someone.

I'm pumped!


----------



## soloyc (Jun 22, 2017)

bereninga said:


> Does the articulating screen compromise weather sealing at all compared to the current 6D?



That is one of my main concerns as well. There's no mention of it at all in those reported specs. 

Tilt screens can be handy for macros or ground-level shooting, but we have WiFi for that, so I'm not sure I would have needed one at all cost. But incomplete weather sealing is probably another reason why the 6D line costs less than the 5D. I really enjoy my 6D (despite the limited AF which suits my needs), but when there's a slight chance of rain I let my wife, who owns the 5DIII, do most of the shooting. I also had my 6D totally freeze after less than 5 minutes handling it at -15 degrees C, while the 5D3 kept working like a charm. I doubt the 6D2 will do much better in the same conditions, unless there's a way to seal the articulation correctly.

In my opinion, the reported specs for the 6D2 are a real upgrade from the initial model. I see no need to compare it to the 5D line, or the Nikon D750. Probably a lot of the current 6D users would not mind some of the lacks because the upgrade specs will match a lot of what was missing from the initial 6D. Afterall it's an upgrade from the 6D model, a really well-rounded entry-level FF, and is not aimed at all for pros who can afford the 5Ds or 1Ds. I'm sure in a few months it will be a bestseller.


----------



## Talys (Jun 22, 2017)

Woody said:


> The weight (765g) and lack of on-board flash are rather disappointing to me. It doesn't matter since I am not in the market to replace my 6D anyway.



A built in flash would have been shocking...


----------



## mclaren777 (Jun 22, 2017)

We're roughly one week from this announcement and still no confirmation about the 85mm IS.


----------



## 4D (Jun 22, 2017)

As a 7D owner I knew I'd find a post-purchase reason to justify buying the 16-35 f4 and upgrading to the 100-400 mkII this year. ;D

I just bought my wife the 77D, mostly to get the 30% discount on the 100-400 mkII here in Aus, but I have been mightily impressed with the 45 point focus.

She's loves shooting and still uses auto modes, but last weekend at a school function her focus hit rate soared to like 99% from the usual 70-80% on the 7D.

We do some video too for Youtube and DPAF is fantastic, and I really do not care that it's not 4K. Handling 1080 is more than enough of a resources drain.

So now I will patiently wait to get the 6D mkII in the new year at a discount too.

Fortunately Canon Aus is having great special discounts every 4 months at the moment,although invariably you have to buy another piece of equipment.

Hmm, a 1.4 times would probably be needed to offset the lost crop-factor!


----------



## abcd1234 (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



ahsanford said:


> Only major things we don't know now:
> 
> 
> Max shutter speed
> ...



The flash speed sync is not major. The shutter durability on the other hand is much more important, and will probably be rated the same as the 6D.
The manufacturing country, most certainly Japan.
The metering system.
Also curious about the software side: in-camera lens corrections available, auto-ISO implementation, DPRAW and DLO like the 5DIV. I remember a stupid rumor stating that the system might be a google/android-based or whatever, and not a Canon made.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

pinoyplaya4life said:


> Eletronic Image Stabilization? Really? WTF! My 5D4 doesnt even have that!


_
...for video. _

That's like having the super power of being able to fly... but only to work.

I believe the recent Rebels got this feature as well.

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

hbr said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I also agree. When one throws terms like Nerfed, Crippled, or Fanboy into a conversation, they come with a lot of emotional baggage (that varies from person to person) and makes it harder to get your point across as the moment they see Nerfed, it sets a tone that usually gets associated with extreme (and often unreasonable) viewpoints that spawns even more extreme responses..... How can one recover from that?
> ...



I found your comment to be neither extreme, nor unreasonable. You stated a position and explained it well with neutral language. I agree with what you said.


The internet is a hard place to avoid confusion. My comment was about the difficulties of having an electronic discussion when certain words mean different things to different people. This, coupled with the difficulties of expressing our feelings or subtleties with a keyboard, makes misunderstandings inevitable. We often do not express ourselves well.... and the fact that my post confused you makes me guilty myself....

Your posting was an example of how to converse well, and it brought to mind a lot of the recent posts that had descended into gainsaying and ruined several threads.

What I was trying to say, was that the emotional baggage of certain words can set the tone of the conversation. For example, look at AF points..... if one says that camera X has 45 points as opposed to the 65 points on camera Y, it is a fairly neutral statement that is undeniably correct. If you say the camera X was crippled with 45 points, it sets a negative tone which tends to encourage both the "Canon is *******" crowd, and the "defenders of the realm" , setting up an argument that can never be resolved and before we know it, we are wading through 500 posts of insanity.....

Once the war has begun, it is hard to have a rational discussion. The truth is usually in the middle, but when people become polarized into extreme positions, it is impossible to get there. Attempts to rationally explain things tend to get lost in the noise, and sometimes attacked by all sides.

It is my hope that as a group, we forum users try to take things a bit less personally, try to avoid emotionally charged language, absolutely avoid calling each other names, not be so quick to hit "post", and get out there and take pictures....


----------



## cerealito (Jun 22, 2017)

Any info on the pricing??? ???


----------



## hne (Jun 22, 2017)

More images: http://digicame-info.com/2017/06/eos-6d-mark-ii-10.html


----------



## Khalai (Jun 22, 2017)

hne said:


> More images: http://digicame-info.com/2017/06/eos-6d-mark-ii-10.html



Neat! Looking forward to that vari-angle touch LCD. I may even preorder one 



cerealito said:


> Any info on the pricing??? ???



Estimated price should be 1999 USD/1999 EUR.


----------



## smr (Jun 22, 2017)

A bit OT but can anyone suggest what kind of price roughly, I should be looking at to sell my 700D, 18-55 IS, 10-18 IS and 55-250 IS STM lenses?

Hahnel Battery grip and 3 batteries as well. All very good condition.


----------



## hbr (Jun 22, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> hbr said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Gotcha. I agree with you 100%.


----------



## BurningPlatform (Jun 22, 2017)

DslmNut said:


> Clean HDMI output?
> 422 8 bit 1080 output?



This is a good question. Clean proper HDMI out, and this is a more serious HD camera. (I think you'd get audio monitoring through your external recorder as well).


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 22, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Estimated price should be 1999 USD/1999 EUR.



Do you have a source for the price in euro ? 

At current exchange rates it would be surprising to see a €1999 price.


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 22, 2017)

The pricing tends to be strange sometimes. When we bought 70D, it costed 1100 USD vs the 1200 EUR.


----------



## Khalai (Jun 22, 2017)

MayaTlab said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Estimated price should be 1999 USD/1999 EUR.
> ...



I'm just guesstimating, since USD prices are usually w/o VAT or sales tax, while EUR prices are not. Whether we like it or not, conversion rate was 1:1 for a long time to much dismay from EU citizens (myself included).

Source is very own CR site with CR3 rating: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32819.0


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Jun 22, 2017)

What's the 5 axis image stabilisation about? Is that IS built into the sensor? Or is it some funky electronic sensor pixel algorithms that simulate IS?


----------



## Diamir (Jun 22, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Estimated price should be 1999 USD/1999 EUR.



Generally, the converson is not done that way. I would say (unfortunately as I'm from France), it will be closer to 2200€... :-\


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 22, 2017)

Khalai said:


> MayaTlab said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



The 1:1 conversion rate has been gone for a while now. Personally, unless the US price has been determined to milk US consumers, I'm expecting the 6D to come at around €2199.


----------



## Khalai (Jun 22, 2017)

MayaTlab said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > MayaTlab said:
> ...



Dammit! You are correct. If I take 1999 USD and add 21% VAT (Czechia) it's around 2150 €


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 22, 2017)

GMCPhotographics said:


> What's the 5 axis image stabilisation about? Is that IS built into the sensor? Or is it some funky electronic sensor pixel algorithms that simulate IS?



Unfortunately it is pixel algorithms


----------



## candyman (Jun 22, 2017)

Well....the current prices of a body only 5D MK IV in the US (no discount included) is $3499. 
The price of a body only 5D MK IV - at least in the Netherlands - is €4129.
Even if you make the VAT calculations en currency conversion....the difference is significant and not positive for the price in the Netherlands.


My guess is that the body only 6D MK II price in the Netherlands will be €2399. I would be shocked if it is higher and pleasantly surprised if it is lower.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

Diamir said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Estimated price should be 1999 USD/1999 EUR.
> ...



It also depends on the exchange rate at the time Canon purchased their exchange hedges (which might be quite different from the exchange rate at the time of price comparison). I believe EU member countries also have a mandatory "fit for sale" warranty period of a few years, which is longer than that for the US, and Canon has to price that in as well.

There are, in general, political and economic reasons that things cost more in Europe. At this point, it should surprise no one. It can be lamented, but it's not for nothing, and no one should be expecting to punch the USD price into a currency converter and see the EUR price.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> What I was trying to say, was that the emotional baggage of certain words can set the tone of the conversation.



Thank you for explaining my frustration with that term more succinctly and politely than I was able to.


----------



## Khalai (Jun 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Diamir said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



US prices are taxless and with 1yr warranty. EU prices have to factor in VAT and 2yr warranty. Still, the difference is quite significant and unpleasant to european customers for obvious reasons. If you live in middle or eastern european country, 2199 € price tag is about twice or thrice the amount of average monthly salary.


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 22, 2017)

So.

It appears the control layout and ergonomics is basically 100% identical to the 80D which is not surprising - except for the dedicated playback zoom button (inherited from the 6D)! There is no M.fn button; the button next to the shutter is the AF mode selection button like in the 70D and the 80D, most likely not programmable.


----------



## BillB (Jun 22, 2017)

I find myself wondering how the 6DII will stack up against the 80D. Are they substantially the same camera except for sensor size? As far as sensor size is concerned: At what print size will the difference between the sensors become noticable at normal viewing distances at lowish ISO's? At what ISO will differences in the performance of the two sensors become noticable (in 12x18 prints, for example).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2017)

GMCPhotographics said:


> What's the 5 axis image stabilisation about? Is that IS built into the sensor? Or is it some funky electronic sensor pixel algorithms that simulate IS?



Two axes are lens IS, the other three are sensor-based. It's only for video, because video capture doesn't use the full area of the sensor.


----------



## Drum (Jun 22, 2017)

I think Canon has designed this camera to kill the second hand 5D3 market. anyone in the market for a used 5d3 would probably look at this camera and think its only a few hundred $ £ € more for new vs used, warranty vs none. I will strongly consider changing my back-up 5D3 for this camera. new sensor performance, lower light focusing, possibly better high ISO handling.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

GMCPhotographics said:


> What's the 5 axis image stabilisation about? Is that IS built into the sensor? Or is it some funky electronic sensor pixel algorithms that simulate IS?


Funky!

When shooting video, you have a cropped image from the middle of the sensor. If the camera jitters while you are shooting, the scene that you wish to capture moves around on the sensor, this version of IS allows the recorded image to shift to the pixels that the image has moved to. It is kind of like shooting in 2.7K and using Premiere to run it's IS function, and the cropping the final output to 2K, but in this case it is all in camera.....


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 22, 2017)

Assworms said:


> Looks like the focusing screen is not interchangeable, so no current full frame canon cameras canons besides 1ds are usable with manual focus lenses, FUNNYHEADS!



Needless vulgarity aside, that's simply an unfortunate side effect of Canon's "Intelligent Viewfinder" feature where the focusing screen has an integrated LCD layer to display overlaid info.


----------



## LesC (Jun 22, 2017)

BillB said:


> I find myself wondering how the 6DII will stack up against the 80D. Are they substantially the same camera except for sensor size? As far as sensor size is concerned: At what print size will the difference between the sensors become noticable at normal viewing distances at lowish ISO's? At what ISO will differences in the performance of the two sensors become noticable (in 12x18 prints, for example).



I have the 80D & original 6D. At low iso in good light on a 12 x18 print I doubt you'd notice much if any difference. However for low light performance the 6D's sensor is far superior with much less noise so the MKII should be even better.

I like to use the 6D for landscapes/general shooting & the 80D for airshows etc where the cropped sensor effectively makes the 100-400 into an 160 - 640.

I'll be getting the 6D MKII but will wait a while to see reviews & also to see if the price drops say after Christmas.

I think whenever a new camera is announced there are always some people who are dissatisfied that it doesn't include various features that _they_ would like to see; we all have different wants - to me, I really wanted to see GPS included again & an articulated touch screen whereas 4K video & dual card slots don't bother me. That's just me though; to others 4k video & dual card slots may be a deal breaker but GPS might be important.

There's never going to be a camera that's perfect for everyone but the new 6D MKII is near to that for me at least


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 22, 2017)

Drum said:


> I think Canon has designed this camera to kill the second hand 5D3 market. anyone in the market for a used 5d3 would probably look at this camera and think its only a few hundred $ £ € more for new vs used, warranty vs none. I will strongly consider changing my back-up 5D3 for this camera. new sensor performance, lower light focusing, possibly better high ISO handling.



In the UK, the Canon 5DMk3 is now £2000 New, the rough price the Canon 6DMk2 will be. So second hand units will be considerably cheaper.


----------



## JMKE (Jun 22, 2017)

BillB said:


> I find myself wondering how the 6DII will stack up against the 80D. Are they substantially the same camera except for sensor size? As far as sensor size is concerned: At what print size will the difference between the sensors become noticable at normal viewing distances at lowish ISO's? At what ISO will differences in the performance of the two sensors become noticable (in 12x18 prints, for example).



Think it will stack up just like the 6D stacked up to the 60D back then. In therms of printing, its depending a lot of course in what the subject was in what kind of light and editing. Overall the 6D2 will be better in recovering the shadows and highlight, which can be usefull in high contrast situations (sunsets and the likes).


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 22, 2017)

JMKE said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > I find myself wondering how the 6DII will stack up against the 80D. Are they substantially the same camera except for sensor size? As far as sensor size is concerned: At what print size will the difference between the sensors become noticable at normal viewing distances at lowish ISO's? At what ISO will differences in the performance of the two sensors become noticable (in 12x18 prints, for example).
> ...



*This chart*, comparing the DR of the 6D, 60D, 5D4, and 80D, probably gives some indication of how the 6D2 is going to perform. Note that the 80D actually handily beats the original 6D at ISO 100, thanks to the new sensor tech with on-chip ADCs!


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 22, 2017)

BillB said:


> I find myself wondering how the 6DII will stack up against the 80D. Are they substantially the same camera except for sensor size?



Currently it appears that the 6D2 is going to be the 80D with the following changes:

+ 1.5x sensor area (total of 2.5x)
+ 2 Mpix
+ 1 DiGIC gen (6 -> 7)
+ ~2 stops max ISO
+ Bluetooth
+ Electronic video IS
+ GPS
+ 4K timelapse instead of HD
+ Dedicated playback zoom button

- 0.5 FPS
- 1 stop max shutter speed
-? flash sync speed?

+- AF system
+- HD video
+- Vari-angle touch screen
+- Controls and control layout
+- Roughly size and dimensions
+- Single SD card slot
+- Cable terminals?

? Buffer (the bitrate required is essentially the same as the 80D but the DiGIC 7 is faster)
? Headphone jack?? (possibly hidden behind the usb/hdmi port cover in the pic)


FWIW, I don't think it's a coincidence that 24 Mpix * 7 fps basically equals 26 Mpix * 6.5 fps.


----------



## rfdesigner (Jun 22, 2017)

any word on the maximum frame rate in 720p mode?


----------



## Ladislav (Jun 22, 2017)

Khalai said:


> MayaTlab said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



I expect even worse EU price. It is not only about VAT but also about customer protection and warranty. EU has stricter rules than US and someone needs to pay for that.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Assworms said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like the focusing screen is not interchangeable, so no current full frame canon cameras canons besides 1ds are usable with manual focus lenses, FUNNYHEADS!
> ...



Except that my 1D X has the 'intelligent viewfinder' feature _and_ interchangeable focusing screens.


----------



## tr573 (Jun 22, 2017)

pinoyplaya4life said:


> Eletronic Image Stabilization? Really? WTF! My 5D4 doesnt even have that!



Warp Stabilizer does a better job. It's neat to have it in camera, but you have better options available.


----------



## Drum (Jun 22, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Drum said:
> 
> 
> > I think Canon has designed this camera to kill the second hand 5D3 market. anyone in the market for a used 5d3 would probably look at this camera and think its only a few hundred $ £ € more for new vs used, warranty vs none. I will strongly consider changing my back-up 5D3 for this camera. new sensor performance, lower light focusing, possibly better high ISO handling.
> ...



In Ireland used 5d3 are going around €1500- 1700 depending upon condition The price of the new 5D3 may have dropped but stocks will likely dry up very quickly, I'm sure Canon isn't going to harm 6D2 sales by having a similarly priced 5 series still in official retailers, (grey markets may still have new versions)


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> ? Buffer (the bitrate required is essentially the same as the 80D but the DiGIC 7 is faster)



The buffer is a legit outstanding question. Although I don't think it has anything to do with the Digic chip (processing power determines frame rate not buffer storage). Honestly it's just how much memory they put in it for the buffer. Being a 6D series, I'm guessing it won't be anything substantial and if you're shooting RAW it will probably fill up quite quickly. That's one clear advantage the 7D/5D/1D cameras get, large, deep buffers.

Did the 80D improve over the 70D in this regard? I enjoyed having the 7 fps when I owned a 70D, but I feel like the buffer filled after just a second and a half or so.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

Khalai said:


> US prices are taxless and with 1yr warranty. EU prices have to factor in VAT and 2yr warranty. Still, the difference is quite significant and unpleasant to european customers for obvious reasons. If you live in middle or eastern european country, 2199 € price tag is about twice or thrice the amount of average monthly salary.



As I said, there are advantages and disadvantages to entering a single-currency free-trade economic zone with more economically powerful neighbors. I do wonder if the feel of the price (compared to average monthly salary) in, say, Latvia is actually more painful than its price in rural Arkansas or Mississippi, which are also economically much weaker than the major cities in Texas, California, Colorado, and New York. Maybe later I'll look up average salaries, though I'm not sure I could find it specifically for the rural parts.


----------



## JMKE (Jun 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> *This chart*, comparing the DR of the 6D, 60D, 5D4, and 80D, probably gives some indication of how the 6D2 is going to perform. Note that the 80D actually handily beats the original 6D at ISO 100, thanks to the new sensor tech with on-chip ADCs!


So if the on-chip ADC is also in the 6D2, it might/will top the 5D4. Nice!
Oh, and the Digic 7 might help some as well.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 22, 2017)

What speed is the SD Card slot?


----------



## Sarpedon (Jun 22, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Assworms said:
> ...



This is infuriating if true. Half my lenses are manual focus and all except one are f/2 or wider. I hope an aftermarket solution presents itself. I'm not going crop and I'm not buying a 1DX-II just to manual focus accurately. 

Could someone explain what's leading them to conclude that the focusing screen is not interchangeable?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

JMKE said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > *This chart*, comparing the DR of the 6D, 60D, 5D4, and 80D, probably gives some indication of how the 6D2 is going to perform. Note that the 80D actually handily beats the original 6D at ISO 100, thanks to the new sensor tech with on-chip ADCs!
> ...



Well but the 5D4 also has on-chip ADC, so the 6D2 isn't going to have another boost equal to that margin over the 5D4. It might be incrementally better due to having another year of development on the sensor design, but even if it does, it will be hard to see in final images.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> Could someone explain what's leading them to conclude that the focusing screen is not interchangeable?



All I believe I've seen on this is Sporgon's quote form earlier on this thread:



Sporgon said:


> No user interchangeable screen by the looks of the front pic. Aaaargh - I want one.
> 
> Canon is *******.



Sporgon, care to elaborate on what you are seeing? I just don't know what tell you are seeing in the picture. Thanks for clarifying.

- A


----------



## JMKE (Jun 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> JMKE said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...


Think your right on that one. Difference will be (probably) the same as with the 5D3 and the 6D1.
And even if it is on-par with the 5D4 its still a nice, and welcome, improvement over the previous model.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 22, 2017)

JMKE said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think there will be any difference at all in DR. May a tenth or two stops, but that's going to be it. Unless Canon radically redesigned the sensor architecture over the 5D4, which is very unlikely. The Digic 7 won't affect DR as DR is derived from the sensor only (read noise and full-well capacity).


----------



## NorbR (Jun 22, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> Could someone explain what's leading them to conclude that the focusing screen is not interchangeable?



Check out the front views of the 6D (which does have interchangeable screens) and the 5D4 (which does not):
http://camerasize.com/compact/#682,380,ha,f

The 6D Mark II looks just like the 5D4, and does not appear to have that little latch that the 6D has to access the focus screen.


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## hbr (Jun 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Well but the 5D4 also has on-chip ADC, so the 6D2 isn't going to have another boost equal to that margin over the 5D4. It might be incrementally better due to having another year of development on the sensor design, but even if it does, it will be hard to see in final images.




Are you sure the 6D II won't have on-chip ADC or am I misunderstanding your post?


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 22, 2017)

hbr said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Well but the 5D4 also has on-chip ADC, so the 6D2 isn't going to have another boost equal to that margin over the 5D4. It might be incrementally better due to having another year of development on the sensor design, but even if it does, it will be hard to see in final images.
> ...



What I actually think he is saying is, that there will not be much difference (if any) to the 5DIV chip performance.


----------



## Sarpedon (Jun 22, 2017)

NorbR said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > Could someone explain what's leading them to conclude that the focusing screen is not interchangeable?
> ...



Oooph. My enthusiasm for this camera just went out the window. 

Can anyone with experience speak to the ease and quality of third-party solutions on the 5D IV or anything else that doesn't have the interchangeable option natively? The more detail the merrier. I've googled but it's hard to find decent info.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

hbr said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Well but the 5D4 also has on-chip ADC, so the 6D2 isn't going to have another boost equal to that margin over the 5D4. It might be incrementally better due to having another year of development on the sensor design, but even if it does, it will be hard to see in final images.
> ...



Yeah, what I'm saying is the 5D4 has on-chip ADC. The 5D4 also has on-chip ADC, so any sensor advantage of the 6D2 sensor won't be because of the on-chip ADC, and it certainly won't have the large increase of performance _over the 5D4_, since the 5D4 has the same technology.

The 80D had a big jump over the 70D. The 5D4 had a big jump over the 5D3. The 6D2 will (should) have a big jump over the 6D... but _not_ a big jump over the 5D4. Does that make more sense?


----------



## LSXPhotog (Jun 22, 2017)

The only feature that I honestly can't believe is missing is 4K video. That is going to be the Achilles heel when it comes to the market. It's a buzz word. It's a feature people think they need and, unfortunately, it absolutely needed to be included with this camera.

I don't shoot video and I very rarely even put my cameras into video mode at all, but that's not what it's about. I look at the market and I can see the trends and where the competition is at in terms of features and capability. Sadly for Canon, they don't seem to pay much attention to this...almost in a display of arrogance.

At some point Canon needs to understand that keeping a feature out because they might lose a 5D sale or cinema sale is losing them a CANON sale, above all.

I'm planing to buy this camera because of the tilt-screen, but the internet is going to blast this camera. It's 2017 and Canon doesn't seem to care about that fact.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 22, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> The only feature that I honestly can't believe is missing is 4K video. That is going to be the Achilles heel when it comes to the market. It's a buzz word. It's a feature people think they need and, unfortunately, it absolutely needed to be included with this camera.



Why? No other camera at this price point has 4k. Anyone spending $2,000 on a body already knows that - and if they are looking for it they sure as hell won't find it anywhere else either. 

So why, exactly, will it be an 'Achilles heel'?



LSXPhotog said:


> terms of features and capability.


What 4k capability at $2,000?




LSXPhotog said:


> Sadly for Canon, they don't seem to pay much attention to this...almost in a display of arrogance.


They are obviously clearly no more arrogant than Sony, Nikon or anyone else. 



LSXPhotog said:


> At some point Canon needs to understand that keeping a feature out because they might lose a 5D sale or cinema sale is losing them a CANON sale, above all.


Losing sale to...what exactly?


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 22, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> The only feature that I honestly can't believe is missing is 4K video. That is going to be the Achilles heel when it comes to the market. It's a buzz word. It's a feature people think they need and, unfortunately, it absolutely needed to be included with this camera.
> 
> I don't shoot video and I very rarely even put my cameras into video mode at all, but that's not what it's about. I look at the market and I can see the trends and where the competition is at in terms of features and capability. Sadly for Canon, they don't seem to pay much attention to this...almost in a display of arrogance.
> 
> ...



The problem with all of that is Canon has done far, far more marketing research than you have. So your suppositions are most likely incorrect. People buying this camera don't give a crap about 4k video. And I know that because nobody does better market research than Canon and Canon didn't include it; intentionally. 

Furthermore, again back to market research, not including 4k actually DOESN'T lose them a Canon sale. The 6D is the leading selling FF camera on the market and I'm guessing the 6D2 will sell and sell and sell and sell, without 4k video. If it would affect sales, Canon would have included it.

This is an entry-level FF camera. If you need more professional features, there are plenty of other cameras out there. What is it with you people demanding that every camera ever released have every feature possible? Get over it.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

A few dozen or hundred people online will blast this camera. Countless thousands will buy it and be thrilled because it's better than their old T6i, and won't even be aware that a bunch of nerds get together in a dark corner of the internet and gnash their teeth about a feature that the countless thousands don't actually care about.

Remember, the target market for this camera is probably going to view their pictures, and whatever possible video, on a laptop screen that is at most 1080p. These aren't graphics professionals, they don't want to try to edit a 4k video, and a bunch won't even shoot RAW. They don't want a 4k video file dumped on their 4-year-old laptop to try to edit; they want a video to toss onto Instagram or Vine or FB. Like it or not, that's the intended market for this camera, and I doubt they'll care about shooting 4k. It might be a bit of a sticking point towards the end of its cycle, but that's a distinct "maybe", after it moves a whoooooole lotta units and makes Canon fat sacks of filthy lucre.


----------



## Sporgon (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > Could someone explain what's leading them to conclude that the focusing screen is not interchangeable?
> ...



As NorbR has said above, the upper mirror foam buffer configuration looks just like the 5DIV. There is no catch visible as on the 5D / 5DII / 6D / 7DII. So I would say that the chances are it doesn't have one. 

I am still baffled as to why the 7DII included this feature.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

hbr said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Well but the 5D4 also has on-chip ADC, so the 6D2 isn't going to have another boost equal to that margin over the 5D4. It might be incrementally better due to having another year of development on the sensor design, but even if it does, it will be hard to see in final images.
> ...



Oh goodness, I'd assume _everything_ will have on-chip ADC other than the most budgety-budget in Canon's line (like P&S, 1300D, etc.). I haven't been following if the Rebels got it with the last release, but the 80D got it. 

So in my mind it's a certainty that the 6D2 gets it.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> Oooph. My enthusiasm for this camera just went out the window.
> 
> Can anyone with experience speak to the ease and quality of third-party solutions on the 5D IV or anything else that doesn't have the interchangeable option natively? The more detail the merrier. I've googled but it's hard to find decent info.



Short version that I've read: You give your precious to a nice man who tears it apart to swap out something that really wasn't designed to be swapped out. YMMV.

Long version: I'm sure there are threads on this here at CR for the 5D3, but I don't know about the 5D4.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

NorbR said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > Could someone explain what's leading them to conclude that the focusing screen is not interchangeable?
> ...



I learn something new every day. Thank you!

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> The 80D had a big jump over the 70D. The 5D4 had a big jump over the 5D3. The 6D2 will (should) have a big jump over the 6D... but _not_ a big jump over the 5D4. Does that make more sense?



+1

Moving to on-chip is a much bigger bump than (say) the 6D2 coming out a year later than the 5D4 with the same technology.

See this lovely plot:
http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/DXOPDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV

Expect to see a similar bump from the 6D to the 6D2. The bump from moving to on-chip (presumably) will be bigger than the bump it might get from being a one year newer design, 4 less MP, etc. 

- A


----------



## EduPortas (Jun 22, 2017)

Just itching to re-buy a heavily discounted/used 6D (sold it due to financial reasons).

I can live with AF center-focus point only, since I'm not planning to shoot a football match with it.

So thanks Canon, but I'll pass on this upgrade.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 22, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> The only feature that I honestly can't believe is missing is 4K video. That is going to be the Achilles heel when it comes to the market. It's a buzz word. It's a feature people think they need and, unfortunately, it absolutely needed to be included with this camera.



Playing Devils Advocate here. What if Canon, by not including UHD, just saved Sony and Nikon's bacon?

Two reasons. Now, Sony and Nikon don't have to include UHD, and perhaps increase the margins on bodies that directly compete with the 6Dx line. Or, if Sony and Nikon believe that they can mop up this entry level FF sector, they can include UHD, and and be quids in (said that without any knowledge of costs of course).

Alan.


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## StudentOfLight (Jun 22, 2017)

Here is a panel discussion from last week's E3 (E3=Electronic Entertainment Expo)

The host asks the panel of highly influential folks (e.g. AngryJoe has 2.8M subscribers.) if they have 4K...

https://youtu.be/if5gwetFx9s?t=6m42s


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## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> As NorbR has said above, the upper mirror foam buffer configuration looks just like the 5DIV. There is no catch visible as on the 5D / 5DII / 6D / 7DII. So I would say that the chances are it doesn't have one.
> 
> I am still baffled as to why the 7DII included this feature.



This has always been a minor grumble of mine. My 5D3 VF is gorgeous and fancy and terrific, but it comes at the cost of never being able to handhold a large aperture prime and (with high confidence) nail wide open shots through the viewfinder. Zeiss's wonderful glass is effectively dead to me for that reason.

The 6D is comprehensively outgunned by the 5D3, but the 6D had some nice things 5D3 owners were jealous of -- that center -3 EV AF point and (for me especially) the ability to swap out screens. Looks like one of those just went away with the 6D2.

- A


----------



## Sporgon (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > Sarpedon said:
> ...



I guess that as from the 5DIII Canon felt that the AF system was that accurate fitting a manual screen to "tweak" the focus accuracy after AF wasn't going to be necessary anymore. I don't believe that Canon have ever really given any consideration to use of genuine manual focus lenses on FF, but then there is the 7DII which introduced interchangeable screens to the 7 series. I can only assume that Canon felt that playing about with manual focus lenses and "S" screens is mainly done by hobbyists, and those people buy a lot more crop cameras than FF. 

The 1D series just get (nearly) everything.


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## smr (Jun 22, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> The only feature that I honestly can't believe is missing is 4K video. That is going to be the Achilles heel when it comes to the market. It's a buzz word. It's a feature people think they need and, unfortunately, it absolutely needed to be included with this camera.
> 
> I don't shoot video and I very rarely even put my cameras into video mode at all, but that's not what it's about. I look at the market and I can see the trends and where the competition is at in terms of features and capability. Sadly for Canon, they don't seem to pay much attention to this...almost in a display of arrogance.
> 
> ...



Well Canon will be getting £2000 of my money for my 6Dmk2 so I'd say it didn't "absolutely" need to be on it, I'm sure plenty of landscape togs will be happy without the need for 4k as well.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > The 80D had a big jump over the 70D. The 5D4 had a big jump over the 5D3. The 6D2 will (should) have a big jump over the 6D... but _not_ a big jump over the 5D4. Does that make more sense?
> ...



Right. It seemed like the post I was replying to expected that if there was improvement X from 5D3 -> 5D4, there would be the same boost X from 5D4 -> 6D2, but you only get to "bank" that boost once, either by comparing the 6D2 to the 6D, or by saying it'll be broadly similar to the 5D4, which already received that big boost compared to the 5D3. You don't get it twice (though as ever, the newest version of a sensor will often show marginal improvements over prior versions, even with no specified improvements in technology.


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## bereninga (Jun 22, 2017)

Until 4K becomes more mainstream, 1080p is good enough. Even TV stations to this day don't broadcast in 1080p. By the time the 6DIII comes around, it will probably have 4K.

Someone who absolutely needs 4K for their work should probably look at the 5DIV or Sony or Panasonic GH5 instead. There's really no use in whining on a forum, and the best way to convey your dislike is with your wallet.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Playing Devils Advocate here. What if Canon, by not including UHD, just saved Sony and Nikon's bacon?
> 
> Two reasons. Now, Sony and Nikon don't have to include UHD, and perhaps increase the margins on bodies that directly compete with the 6Dx line. Or, if Sony and Nikon believe that they can mop up this entry level FF sector, they can include UHD, and and be quids in (said that without any knowledge of costs of course).
> 
> Alan.



Well, that will be interesting to see, won't it? Given the reaction to the "unacceptable" 4k on the 5D4 (I have no personal idea), I suspect it's not possible to do what people want at the price point they expect, currently. It'll be fun to see the reaction if a hypothetical D760 comes out without 4k though, even with the benefit of another year or two of technology.


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 22, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > ? Buffer (the bitrate required is essentially the same as the 80D but the DiGIC 7 is faster)
> ...



True, the DiGIC reference was a bit of a red herring. However, the burst length depends critically on not just buffer size but also on buffer flush / card write speed. The faster the camera is able to write frames from the buffer to the card, the slower the buffer fills.



> Did the 80D improve over the 70D in this regard? I enjoyed having the 7 fps when I owned a 70D, but I feel like the buffer filled after just a second and a half or so.



It did. The 80D captures about three seconds of RAWs at 7fps even though the resolution is higher. I think this is mostly due to improved card write speed (roughly twice as fast as the 70D and getting close to the limits of the best SD UHS-I cards). Presumably the 6D2 will also get speed boost in that regard.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> I guess that as from the 5DIII Canon felt that the AF system was that accurate fitting a manual screen to "tweak" the focus accuracy after AF wasn't going to be necessary anymore. I don't believe that Canon have ever really given any consideration to use of genuine manual focus lenses on FF, but then there is the 7DII which introduced interchangeable screens to the 7 series. I can only assume that Canon felt that playing about with manual focus lenses and "S" screens is mainly done by hobbyists, and those people buy a lot more crop cameras than FF.
> 
> The 1D series just get (nearly) everything.



I'm not sure I agree with that. I suspect that there were initial technical issues with having both a transmissive LCD and a swappable focus screen right next to it. My guess is there was an expensive solution to the problem, which they implemented in the 1D X. By the time of the 7DII, they had found a way to make it more cost effective - perhaps that solution is more feasible with smaller screens? Or perhaps Canon just decided not to include it in the 6DII for differentiation reasons, like AF point-linked spot metering.

As for the 1-series getting nearly everything, even though the 1D X has the transmissive LCD, supports interchangeable focus screens, and is physically compatible with the Ec-S high-precision screen...Canon has chosen to not support the -S screen in the firmware for the 1D X (i.e. provide the needed exposure adjustment), which makes the option to swap out a focusing screen useless to me.


----------



## tr573 (Jun 22, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > Sarpedon said:
> ...



Third party focus screens are generally well reviewed (they are just cut to fit from real Canon 1D models) , but if the camera doesn't officially support it, then it doesn't have a C.Fn to compensate the meter for it. So you have to do it manually.


----------



## TedBedlam (Jun 22, 2017)

As a 30% video guy (Panasonic but looking to find better custoner service) who passed on the 5dIV due to its memory intensive codec, I'm curious to see what the video color space is (perhaps it's already been leaked and I'm too poor a reader to notice).

I'd also like to hear opinions on the electronic IBIS - enjoyed the addition the one time I rented a GH5 but that's significantly different tech. Low light video performance and use of the full sensor (no crop factor) would make this a worthy B-camera in a pinch.

Full disclosure - never shot canon (looking to convert for customer service and second shooter markets), probably buying the 6DMKII for photos regardless of video specs


----------



## leadin2 (Jun 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



Those lovely charts just sparked my desire to upgrade once again. For my 5D2, everything is an upgrade except....did anyone mention about USB 2.0 in 6D2?


----------



## LSXPhotog (Jun 22, 2017)

It's crazy that I say one thing is a big mistake with the camera and people jump down my throat and go nuts...even if I'm a dedicated Canon shooter. When you look at a camera, STOP LOOKING AT IT LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON THAT MATTERS AND CAMERAS ARE MADE FOR YOU!!! LMAO, this place is incredible.



Mikehit said:


> LSXPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > The only feature that I honestly can't believe is missing is 4K video. That is going to be the Achilles heel when it comes to the market. It's a buzz word. It's a feature people think they need and, unfortunately, it absolutely needed to be included with this camera.
> ...



*Already proving your argument wrong by having a much better idea of the current camera market, please reevaluate your stance. Canon is limiting video features in its cameras, everyone knows that. My 5D Mark IV and 1DXII shoot MJPEG only in 4K and have no option for a more efficient codec for those shooting video that DON'T want to grab stills out of a video and are more concerned with storage.
*


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 22, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'm not sure I agree with that. I suspect that there were initial technical issues with having both a transmissive LCD and a swappable focus screen right next to it. My guess is there was an expensive solution to the problem, which they implemented in the 1D X. By the time of the 7DII, they had found a way to make it more cost effective - perhaps that solution is more feasible with smaller screens?



Nikon cameras have had transmissive LCDs since eons ago and replaceable focusing screens as well. My D700 was like that. I don't think that there is any technological limitation at all at any price point.
The 5DIII's focusing screen is actually swappable just like previous Canon cameras and uses the same mechanism, it's just harder to do (you have to remove the protecting piece in front of it, it's retained by a few screws). 
I have no idea why Canon decided to add this protecting part in front of the swappable mechanism.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 22, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> It's crazy that I say one thing is a big mistake with the camera and people jump down my throat and go nuts...even if I'm a dedicated Canon shooter. When you look at a camera, STOP LOOKING AT IT LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON THAT MATTERS AND CAMERAS ARE MADE FOR YOU!!! LMAO, this place is incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who has a better idea of the current camera market? You? I think not.


----------



## LSXPhotog (Jun 22, 2017)

bdunbar79 said:


> Who has a better idea of the current camera market? You? I think not.



Where the hell did I make a claim like that? Canon is absolutely aware of the camera market and what I'm doing is calling all of its implementation of 4K and LACK of implementation a mistake. A perfect example would be the G7X2 versus the RX100V which have the exact same sensor and price point and the Sony offers 4K and the Canon doesn't. I don't care about this stuff at all, but I know for a fact consumers shopping for cameras DO care about features like that - even if they're not going to use it or even know how to.


----------



## cdcooker (Jun 22, 2017)

Still only has C1 and C2 on the mode dial. How difficult to have 3?! Even some PowerShot models have 3!

Why Canon sticks with mini USB plug, while everybody goes to micro USB long time ago?! It is Canon who force me to keep a separate mini USB around in my house! 

Apparently, there is no in-camera charging either.


----------



## tron (Jun 22, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Who has a better idea of the current camera market? You? I think not.
> ...


Where on earth did you see the same price point?

B&H Sony RX100V $998 G7XII $679.99 

AMAZON.DE RX100V 1031.99 euros G7XII 548.00 (sale from 685)


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## crazyrunner33 (Jun 22, 2017)

TedBedlam said:


> As a 30% video guy (Panasonic but looking to find better custoner service) who passed on the 5dIV due to its memory intensive codec, I'm curious to see what the video color space is (perhaps it's already been leaked and I'm too poor a reader to notice).
> 
> I'd also like to hear opinions on the electronic IBIS - enjoyed the addition the one time I rented a GH5 but that's significantly different tech. Low light video performance and use of the full sensor (no crop factor) would make this a worthy B-camera in a pinch.
> 
> Full disclosure - never shot canon (looking to convert for customer service and second shooter markets), probably buying the 6DMKII for photos regardless of video specs



The electronic IBIS(it has been used on a couple other Canon products) is comparable to warp stabilizer on After Effects, but with no ability to adjust it after the fact. The color space is almost guaranteed to be 8 bit 4:2:0 H.264 like almost every other Canon DSLR, most Canon DSLR H.264 codecs have been very muddy. The 1080p on the 5D Mark III was so muddy that 480p RAW upscaled to 1080 looked better than the H.264 1080 encoding from in camera.


----------



## TedBedlam (Jun 22, 2017)

crazyrunner33 said:


> TedBedlam said:
> 
> 
> > As a 30% video guy (Panasonic but looking to find better custoner service) who passed on the 5dIV due to its memory intensive codec, I'm curious to see what the video color space is (perhaps it's already been leaked and I'm too poor a reader to notice).
> ...



Thanks! Doesn't really change much in my decision making but would have been nice.

...and that E-IBIS seems pretty bowser.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2017)

Peejv said:


> Am i the only one that see's LOG beside the GPS on the top LCD? Or it could say IOC (whatever that is)
> 
> Also check out the top screen on the 5D mark IV beside the GPS. Is that gap for LOG? aka CLOG?
> 
> Just a speculation.



The original 6D top LCD has the same 'LOG' indicator. No, it's not C-LOG, sorry if I'm popping a speculative bubble. The indicator simply means you've turned on the GPS logging feature.


----------



## magarity (Jun 22, 2017)

cdcooker said:


> Why Canon sticks with mini USB plug, while everybody goes to micro USB long time ago?! It is Canon who force me to keep a separate mini USB around in my house!


The important part is not that you need to keep another cord around. Look at a micro usb cable. See the two little flexible tabs on the bottom? That's what makes it grip into whatever you plug it. Those aren't on the mini. Because the mini puts that inside the socket! Meaning when that wears out, the socket of your device is now no good. The primary design change with micro is that the cable wears out after some thousands of cycles and not the device. Canon has guaranteed the camera's socket will eventually wear out by using mini. I guess they assume users should transfer pictures with the wifi? Great except that sucks down the battery and requires special software.


----------



## Diamir (Jun 22, 2017)

Peejv said:


> Am i the only one that see's LOG beside the GPS on the top LCD? Or it could say IOC (whatever that is)
> 
> Also check out the top screen on the 5D mark IV beside the GPS. Is that gap for LOG? aka CLOG?
> 
> Just a speculation.



Maybe a log mode for the GPS (as it is located just after the GPS icon... like on the 6D). In a log mode it can log a trip.

The GP-E2 GPS from Canon (external device to be used on 7D / 5D_something) has such a mode. It works as a tracker.
The GPS of the 6D has the same mode and the LOG icon is shown when this mode is activated.

See: https://youtu.be/UbipjstEODk?t=3m16s


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 22, 2017)

magarity said:


> I guess they assume users should transfer pictures with the wifi? Great except that sucks down the battery and requires special software.



transfer via wifi? really? I guess they assume that 99.99999999999% users take the SD card out of the camera and transfer it that way like most of us do.

the USB connection is really used for rare occasions ie: tethering.

if you transfer files by plugging in the camera, well I just don't know.


----------



## jmoya (Jun 22, 2017)

bdunbar79 said:


> LSXPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > It's crazy that I say one thing is a big mistake with the camera and people jump down my throat and go nuts...even if I'm a dedicated Canon shooter. When you look at a camera, STOP LOOKING AT IT LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON THAT MATTERS AND CAMERAS ARE MADE FOR YOU!!! LMAO, this place is incredible.
> ...



Real World. More and more people are doing more with their cameras. Some of us want to size down. What's in my bag. Drone, 5d3, g7x II, lenses...(dedicated video camera?) I only shoot canon and don't plan on switching because I like the lenses I have and have taken years to build up my collection. But I've thought about leaving for awhile now due to the lack of innovation and poor, poor DR in their sensors and crap video frame rates. My canon g7x mark I shoots 60fps at 1080. Its a few years old. This canon 6d mark II does the same and costs 4 times more. All my cinematic slo-motion clips on my travel videos use the g7x mark I because my canon 5d3 only does 30fps. SMH.  
Real World. More and more people are doing more with their cameras. Some of us want to size down. What's in my bag. Drone, 5d3, g7x II, lenses...(dedicated video camera?) I only shoot canon and don't plan on switching because I like the lenses I have and have taken years to build up my collection. But I've thought about leaving for awhile now due to the lack of innovation and poor, poor DR in their sensors and crap video frame rates. My canon g7x mark I shoots 60fps at 1080. Its a few years old. This canon 6d mark II does the same and costs 4 times more. All my cinematic slo-motion clips on my travel videos use the g7x mark I because my canon 5d3 only does 30fps. SMH.  All shot on canon except for the drone shots. Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/cha...


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## Too_Many_Hobbies (Jun 22, 2017)

I am afraid I fall into the category that really wanted to see 4K on the 6D Mark II (although I was pretty certain it wouldn’t be offered).

I currently have a 7D Mark II, 6D, 70D, Sony RX100 MIII and Panasonic FZ1000. The Pany is my video camera these days as it has a good zoom range, is pretty easy to use/keep with me, and has 4K video. Video is almost entirely of my kids these days, and what kills me is when it goes out of focus and hunts when indoor with low light. I don’t care how good the video quality is when it can’t maintain focus. I also really wish this camera had exposure comp when using auto ISO in manual mode. I love that in the 7D and wish the 6D had it.

My wish list on the 6D included 4K and higher frame rates for video (like 120 in 1080) and a headphone jack as the internet tells me I need that. I also hope that it has good eye/face detection – not sure if that applies when shooting through the view finder or only in live view? I prefer the viewfinder personally. These days I really care more about just hitting focus with my kids and capturing the moment, and not worrying so much about settings.

Really would like to see what the buffer is like – 6.5fps if true is a surprise (for me) and with a good buffer I think I will save some money and get this instead of the 5DMIV. Flip touch screen is a plus in my book. I assume it will have exposure comp in manual mode and good enough auto focus.

On the 4K front for me, it is one of those “future proof items” as well as something to give me some latitude in cropping and stabilizing footage in post, or so I believe if I ever get some time to learn how to edit video properly. I have Premier 5 from before the subscription stuff happened and it cannot edit 4K, and I can't spend the extra$$$ when I have no time to use the new version.

If the 1080p video is “really good” with rolling shutter controlled enough for tracking kids then it checks enough boxes for me to upgrade. For monitors, I have 1 4K monitor that I use to view and edit pictures (and some video) a 1440p monitor, and a surface with whatever the heck weird higher than 1080p resolution it has. No 4K TVs yet…kind of waiting to upgrade my projector from 720p to 4K before anything else…and have my kids get old enough so they are not scared of a really big picture .


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2017)

magarity said:


> cdcooker said:
> 
> 
> > Why Canon sticks with mini USB plug, while everybody goes to micro USB long time ago?! It is Canon who force me to keep a separate mini USB around in my house!
> ...



The important part is that your images are stored on a memory card which can be removed from the camera, inserted into a card reader (or with many computers, directly into an SD slot), and images transferred in that way (and generally, much faster).

I honestly don't remember the last time I connected my camera directly to a my computer.


----------



## TedBedlam (Jun 22, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> magarity said:
> 
> 
> > cdcooker said:
> ...



I can! My old DVX-100B and there was a power surge that fried the port one night. Never again.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

TedBedlam said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > magarity said:
> ...



Mine was when I forgot the camera was plugged in and moved the laptop and sent the camera to the floor. It still seems perfect (5D3 can handle more than an 18" drop to carpet), but never again. Never.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: look at that usb port!*



magarity said:


> Holy smokes, still mini-usb? I thought my 6D was odd to have that instead of micro usb. I know better than to expect usb-c but now mini is downright ancient.



And, it works with thousands of accessories. It would be really stupid to change it just for the sake of change.


----------



## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Jun 22, 2017)

tron said:


> LSXPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > bdunbar79 said:
> ...



Exactly! The RX100V is $1249.99 CAD and the Canon G7XII is regularly $899 CAD.


----------



## tron (Jun 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> TedBedlam said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


Well, I have used this method of transfer only for a couple of weeks until i replaced a rather faulty card reader. I haven't destroyed a camera but I have done exactly the same with my laptop and a portable usb disk. 1TB of disk data dead


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## Jerryrigged (Jun 22, 2017)

bereninga said:


> Until 4K becomes more mainstream, 1080p is good enough. Even TV stations to this day don't broadcast in 1080p. By the time the 6DIII comes around, it will probably have 4K.
> 
> Someone who absolutely needs 4K for their work should probably look at the 5DIV or Sony or Panasonic GH5 instead. There's really no use in whining on a forum, and the best way to convey your dislike is with your wallet.



I'm one of those people who would have loved to see 4K in the 6D2. I shoot BOTH photography and videography at weddings. I have the 5D4 and Sony A6500 and original 6Ds (2X). The 5D4 is great as it does both photo and video very well. The A6500 is awesome for video, but I don't use it for photos. A 6D2 with 4K would have been awesome to shoot along side the 5D4 - taking both great photos and video. However, I'm not whining... I understand not everyone needs this versitility. In fact, with the excellent image quality I'm expecting from the 6D2, along with what could be very respectable 1080p (with dual pixel AF), I still will consider the 6D2 as a solid backup camera... probably selling my 2 6Ds in exchange for a 6D2.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2017)

magarity said:


> The important part is not that you need to keep another cord around. Look at a micro usb cable. See the two little flexible tabs on the bottom? That's what makes it grip into whatever you plug it. Those aren't on the mini. Because the mini puts that inside the socket! Meaning when that wears out, the socket of your device is now no good. The primary design change with micro is that the cable wears out after some thousands of cycles and not the device.



Oh, and with mini-USB port if you transfer images by connecting your camera every single day, you can expect the port on the camera to fail after ~13 years (based on the specified port rating of 5,000 cycles). If you buy a 6DII and it fails after 13 years due to the mini-USB port, I'll personally buy you Canon's top-of-the-line full frame camera in 2030. Deal? : : :


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## Too_Many_Hobbies (Jun 22, 2017)

Personally I want USB-C so I can do something with the cables I bought for my Note 7 before having to return it ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2017)

Too_Many_Hobbies said:


> Personally I want USB-C so I can do something with the cables I bought for my Note 7 before having to return it ;D



Are you saying you want the 6DII to be an explosion/fire risk?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

Too_Many_Hobbies said:


> Personally I want USB-C so I can do something with the cables I bought for my Note 7 before having to return it ;D



Personally I want USB-C so I have an excuse to buy another laptop... 8)


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 22, 2017)

Drum said:


> I think Canon has designed this camera to kill the second hand 5D3 market.


 :


----------



## zim (Jun 22, 2017)

Any thoughts on how af point illumination will be handled? I can recall some had issues with newer designs black points in some situations.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jun 22, 2017)

With its reduced price and with paper specs that shine golden I predict Canon has a real killer FF in the making. The proof will still be in the pudding. But its looking like an amazingly good value offer with its new sensor, improved AF array and 6.5 fps. 

I've always been optimistic that the 6DII sensor would beat the 5DIV sensor as we saw with the 6D > 5DIII.

For us who love ultimate IQ the 6DII may be the next thing for high ISO shooting.


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 22, 2017)

zim said:


> Any thoughts on how af point illumination will be handled? I can recall some had issues with newer designs black points in some situations.



Same as 5DIV / 7DII / etc.
If you want both a transmissive LCD viewfinder display and individual, permanently lit af point illumination, you need an extra LCD and prism in the viewfinder, which so far only Nikon Dx and Canon 1DX mark II have.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 22, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> I've always been optimistic that the 6DII sensor would beat the 5DIV sensor as we saw with the 6D > 5DIII.



I wouldn't hold my breath. The 1DxII low light performance isn't much better than the 5DIV. The 6DII will fall in between the two and there just isn't much room there.


----------



## tron (Jun 22, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > I've always been optimistic that the 6DII sensor would beat the 5DIV sensor as we saw with the 6D > 5DIII.
> ...


+1 especially since the 30Mp files can be downscaled a little and lower the noise in the process.


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 22, 2017)

I remember seeing a rumor / post on what kits will be made available, anybody know what lenses will be sold with the 6D MK II?

Is it generally cheaper to buy a camera with lens (kit) or separately?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> I remember seeing a rumor / post on what kits will be made available, anybody know what lenses will be sold with the 6D MK II?
> 
> Is it generally cheaper to buy a camera with lens (kit) or separately?



Generally yes... but they seem awfully proud of the 24-105Lii, to the point where it adds something like a grand to the price of a body. I'd rather get the old version, or the STM, or a 24-70/2.8ii on a deal, and buy the body alone.


----------



## Sarpedon (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > Oooph. My enthusiasm for this camera just went out the window.
> ...



It's been 9 months and no aftermarket screens for the Mark IV that I can see. This does not bode well. 

I guess I have to hope one eventually appears for the 6D II (or the 5D IV). Otherwise, have to: drastically change my shooting style, shoot with the 6D forever, buy a 1DX II, switch to crop, or buy an ergonomically challenged Sony and six thousand Sony batteries. I've invested in the Canon system for 15 years. This is unbelievably frustrating.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Drum said:
> 
> 
> > I think Canon has designed this camera to kill the second hand 5D3 market.
> ...



Technically, the 6D2 will accomplish that as it represents the 'soft landing' for prospective new 5D3 buyers in 2017, because I think we all expect the 5D3 to have its obsolescence announced shortly after the 6D2 is announced.

But _hay-zoose_, that's not anywhere near *the principal reason* Canon is offering a 6D2! The 6D2 is happening because Canon. likes. making. money. To do that, Canon must remain a market leader, must breathe new life into a 4+ year old market segment, must continue to offer new products for its customers, etc. 

The 5D3 is a piece of a bigger market strategy puzzle for Canon, and yes, the 6D2 should obsolete it, but if Canon wanted to deliberately kill the 5D3 second-hand market _as the principal goal of a new camera development effort_, we sure as hell wouldn't get something looking like this 6D2 at the end of that process.

- A


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## LightPainter (Jun 22, 2017)

Hi, this is my first post on this forum! 

I have followed the threads related to the upcoming 6D Mark II for quite a while,yet I am currently still confused in terms of a choice for my future acquisition of a new camera body. I currently own a very old EOS 40D and I have wanted to upgrade to a full frame body for some time now. 

The moment is near and I am considering the EOS 6D Mark II based on the rumored specs, which at this point seem almost 100% certain. The alternative would be the EOS 5D Mark III based on the available budget. Unfortunately the EOS 5D Mark IV is way out of my reach, yet these two systems seem to be quite near in terms of price, however they are very different in terms of specs. I have looked at the specs of both cameras, seen the positive and negative sides of each. This comparison below is strictly based on my personal opinion.

5D Mark III 6D Mark II
Sensor 22 MP 26MP -> if noise levels OK and dynamic range OK, then the 6D MKII wins
AF points 61 45 -> seen the test on the 45 points system on the 77D with hit and misses
 therefore 5D MKIII wins
Processor Digic 5+ Digic 7 -> 6D MKII wins as the technology should help sustain a better IQ @ 
higher ISO
Base ISO 100-25,600 100-40,000 -> maybe the 6D MKII wins
FPS 6 6.5 -> 6D MKII wins
Card Slot x2 (CF UDMA x1 SD UHS-I -> slightly in favor of the 5D MKIII due to instant backup solution 
+ non-UHS SD provided by the 2 slots
Screen Fixed 3.2" Swivel 3" touch screen -> hard to say. How robust is a swivel touch screen after years 
of use?
Video 1080p @30 1080p @60 + 4k time lapse? -> EOS 6D MK II wins
Wi-Fi/GPS/ No Yes -> these are all nice to have, however how do they affect the overal 
Bluetooth/NFC camera software performace in time. If one becomes faulty, is the 
entire camera affected? 
Construction Magnesium alloy Magnesium alloy+plastic -> 5D MK III wins
Weather sealing EOS 1-N level Unknown -> maybe the 5D MK III wins
Release 2012 2017 -> 6D MK II?

I mean I see the logic in having probably better image quality in the 6D MK II, yet how much better than the 5D MK III. On the other hand, the 5D MKIII is built like a tank and seems to be an investment for an extended period of time.

I am looking forward to transform this camera into a tool for earning some extra income. My main focus will be stills. Video is nice to have, yet something still new for me on a DSLR.
I will be shooting some travel photos for starters and maybe try my luck with contests/ stock image sites. I would however not exclude moving up to weddings or similar events, where I am facing the most difficult dilemma: on which camera can I rely? 1 slots vs 2 slots? Image quality @ high ISO values? etc.

I started to work by offering tech support for Canon gear 10 years ago. I therefore had the chance to play around with the Rebels, 30D,5D MK I and 1D MKIII, beside some nice lenses and other Canon equipment. Time has unfortunately passed and I had only my 40D all this time and therefore it is no longer that easy to form an opinion based on testing the products at hand. 

I would therefore value all your input, as maybe some of you may have a vast experience with the mentioned equipment (and in general when it comes to photography) and this might aid me in deciding which way to go.

Thank you all in advance for your help!

Paul


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## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> I remember seeing a rumor / post on what kits will be made available, anybody know what lenses will be sold with the 6D MK II?
> 
> Is it generally cheaper to buy a camera with lens (kit) or separately?



Presumably there's one kit combination for you below (from Digicame). That's the EF 24-70 f/4L IS USM. I'd have argued that it should naturally be the kitting option for the 6D2... until the 24-105L II came out. 

I'm guessing there will be first party Canon-boxed kits for both of those lenses and then we'll see B&H, Amazon, Adorama, etc. start virtually kitting (i.e. one purchase click that nets you a shipper box full of standalone boxed items) existing products with it -- the non-L 24-105 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM comes to mind for a less expensive kit.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> It's been 9 months and no aftermarket screens for the Mark IV that I can see. This does not bode well.
> 
> I guess I have to hope one eventually appears for the 6D II (or the 5D IV). Otherwise, have to: drastically change my shooting style, shoot with the 6D forever, buy a 1DX II, switch to crop, or buy an ergonomically challenged Sony and six thousand Sony batteries. I've invested in the Canon system for 15 years. This is unbelievably frustrating.



One could argue the writing's been on the wall for that when the 5D line got rid of interchangeable screens. 

You have your options right. If you have a lot of MF glass, it's 1DX-level or Sony time for you. You can stick with the 6D for a bit longer, but if you aren't using AF, one might argue you're a gold candidate to adapt lenses on to a Sony rig.

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> magarity said:
> 
> 
> > cdcooker said:
> ...


I do. 

The last time I my camera connected to a computer was doing AFMA with FoCal..... 

I have done so about a dozen times for Focal, about two dozen times for tethered shooting, and that's it for the last ten years.....


----------



## Sarpedon (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > It's been 9 months and no aftermarket screens for the Mark IV that I can see. This does not bode well.
> ...



It's strange, though: why put interchangeable screens in the 6D and 7D II, both of which came out after the 5D III?

It's a shame because I don't care about video and I really have no desire to move to Sony at all, but I'm not becoming a different photographer because Canon has decided to disregard my market. One that I admit is somewhat niche, but still: Canon makes enough wide-aperture glass that this should be a consideration. I strongly prefer an OVF to an EVF, but if the only way I can manually focus my 85L (and my other wide-aperture Canons and my Zeiss lenses) in the Canon ecosystem is with an LCD, then I'll take an EVF every time and I'll take my business elsewhere.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > You have your options right. If you have a lot of MF glass, it's 1DX-level or Sony time for you. You can stick with the 6D for a bit longer, but if you aren't using AF, one might argue you're a gold candidate to adapt lenses on to a Sony rig.
> ...



Right -- totally forgot door #3: keeping shooting your 6D until Canon's FF mirrorless platform arrives. That all but certainly will give you MF peaking/focus assist through the viewfinder.

- A


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 22, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> It's crazy that I say one thing is a big mistake with the camera and people jump down my throat and go nuts...even if I'm a dedicated Canon shooter. When you look at a camera, STOP LOOKING AT IT LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON THAT MATTERS AND CAMERAS ARE MADE FOR YOU!!! LMAO, this place is incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sarpedon (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I'd forgotten about that! I had no interest in mirrorless or any rumors about Canon mirrorless, but I'd rather wait a little white for a Canon mirrorless than switch to Sony. Guess I'll start pining for that instead of the 6D II now. In the meantime, I'm going to check out the A7R II, which I'll probably hate.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> It's a shame because I don't care about video and I really have no desire to move to Sony at all,



Whoa -- I missed that (above). _No one said you had to move your photographic existence to Sony._ Just buy a Sony A7 rig, three batteries and a metabones adapter and you're done.

Keep all your glass and continue to buy Canon glass.

Keep shooting a Canon SLR for your daily driver, and simply have the Sony as your B-rig dedicated to MF lens projects.

Consider: Goodness knows how many landscapers did exactly that before Canon when to on-chip ADC with their sensors.

I'm not saying Sony's your best option for all photography needs, but if you'd like to drive your current MF lenses through the viewfinder *and* have 'near cutting edge' or better sensor tech, your choice is a 1DX/1DX2 or a Sony rig. The Sony is simply a cheaper on-ramp to a better sensor if you don't mind the investment and some learning curve.

- A


----------



## Too_Many_Hobbies (Jun 22, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Too_Many_Hobbies said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I want USB-C so I can do something with the cables I bought for my Note 7 before having to return it ;D
> ...



Exactly. If Canon doesn't have the decency to include overheating 4K, at least have the battery randomly explode for me!


----------



## ken (Jun 22, 2017)

LightPainter said:


> Hi, this is my first post on this forum!
> 
> I have followed the threads related to the upcoming 6D Mark II for quite a while,yet I am currently still confused in terms of a choice for my future acquisition of a new camera body. I currently own a very old EOS 40D and I have wanted to upgrade to a full frame body for some time now.
> 
> ...



Hi Paul! 

Welcome! You and I are the only non-professional photographers on here. Everyone else needs either a 1DXii or some Sony system for 4K. 

It's hard to tell someone else what they need. Since you say you can't afford the 5D Mark IV, I hope you realize that you can't use your ASP-C lenses with any of the full frame bodies. You'll need all new glass when you move up to FF. (But I bet you knew this since you've been researching)

If you're really planning to shoot a wedding for money, I hope you go with the 5D Mark III. You really should be shooting to two cards at once if a bride and groom have trusted you with their wedding day. There are no do-overs. (You should also have a second photographer working it with you, IMO.) Build-wise, a 5D is a tank and a 6D is a pickup truck. 

If this is more hobby, though, I think you'd benefit from the 6D Mark II. I've been shooting with the original 6D since it came out, and I love it. I've been hoping for a tilt screen for a long time in order to do street photography. The new 6Dii will have that. The 6Dii body is smaller than the 5Diii, which is handy in lots of situations. (I have a Sony a6000 I use for street stuff, because its small and has a tilt screen.) 

You may have already experienced, but remote shooting via a tablet computer via wifi is really handy for things like hummingbirds, etc. So many odd-ball uses for wifi, and I don't think the 5D Mark III has it built-in. 

There's a lot of versatility in the specs on the 6D Mark II that I'm excited about. Touch focus (assuming that's really in there)... man. I can't wait. But if you're going to take someone's money, I think you really need to think about dual card. But that's just an opinion! 

Good luck and welcome! I look forward to chatting with you in between all the posts from the pros! 
- Ken


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

ken said:


> LightPainter said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, this is my first post on this forum!
> ...



Well said, but not all pros shoot with a 1DX2.... Some realize that it is about the right tool for the job at an affordable price......

I think that the 6D2 is going to be the best "bang for the buck" of any camera in the Canon line. If I were replacing a camera at work, I would get the 6D2 because for my purposes it is the best Canon camera out there.

I do not need the kick-ass AF system of the 1DX2 because my subjects are usually bolted in place..... they are not moving quickly nor are they moving erratically.....

I do not need a second card, because in the unlikely event of a card failure, the stuff is still bolted down and I can go back and do it again. Wedding photographers do not have the luxury of attaching the bride to the alter with a dozen 50mm bolts......

I work in confined spaces, tilt/swivel is a necessity. Wifi tethering would also be nice....

FPS? For me, does not matter at work.... the stuff is still bolted down, it will not move fast!

High ISO performance? YES! Some of the places are very poorly lit....

What I am trying to say is, choose by your needs, not some label that says "Pro"... 

P.S. In the world of tools, the ones labeled as "Pro" are usually inferior. Good quality tools don't bother with such labels....


----------



## Sporgon (Jun 22, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > I guess that as from the 5DIII Canon felt that the AF system was that accurate fitting a manual screen to "tweak" the focus accuracy after AF wasn't going to be necessary anymore. I don't believe that Canon have ever really given any consideration to use of genuine manual focus lenses on FF, but then there is the 7DII which introduced interchangeable screens to the 7 series. I can only assume that Canon felt that playing about with manual focus lenses and "S" screens is mainly done by hobbyists, and those people buy a lot more crop cameras than FF.
> ...



That's why I said _nearly_ everything ;D


----------



## Sarpedon (Jun 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > It's a shame because I don't care about video and I really have no desire to move to Sony at all,
> ...



Yes, that's actually what I meant. Just speaking shorthand. Though I'd probably just keep it to one camera since I mix and match lenses all the time. Then, maybe, I'll switch back to Canon when they have something more to my liking.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



And no "Green Box" mode..... apparently Canon does not think 1DX users need it. It is obviously crippling the 1DX2 to protect sales of the 6D2


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



You laugh - I haven't used the green box in years (probably half a decade or more), but I look at the 1D controls and go "whelp, at least my eyes glazing over means I won't be tempted to spend that money...".


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> And no "Green Box" mode..... apparently Canon does not think 1DX users need it. It is obviously crippling the 1DX2 to protect sales of the 6D2



Not at all. Green box mode died on the 1-series to prevent untrained one-percenters from using their $6000 cameras to take pictures like a tourist taking shots with an iPad. 

- A


----------



## LightPainter (Jun 22, 2017)

@ Ken & Don Thank you for your input on this topic!

Yes, I already semi-retired my EF-S 18-55 and went for the EF 16-35 f4 IS, which I absolutely love. Tested it in the store briefly with a 5D mk IV. Spectacular on a full frame body. My next lens on the wishlist would be an EF 70-200 f 2.8 IS II. This should cover the tele end nicely and I have seen some great pics in some reviews.

I do understand both points of view and have researched tons of sites with RAW, JPEG samples for the 5D MK III. I have looked at the 6D MK I and even glimpsed at the 77D, as the 6D MK II will probably be a mix of qualities from both these cameras.

The tough choice is that I can only go for a primary body for the required work. I will most likely keep the 40D as a backup solution, however I am aware that is almost a non-existent solution due to its heavy limitations.

I am drawn to both cameras, as each of them has its ups and downs.

I had also the opportunity to view some 5D MK III JPEG files, as we had hired a photographer for our wedding, which was using the 5D MK III. The second photographer was using a 5D MK II. Looking at ISO 1600 files shots inside a church already exhibits some fine noise, which has me a bit concerned. Is there a fault in the usage of the camera on part of the photographer or is the 5D MK III not such a good performer in low light + high ISO situations?

Also, will the 5D MK III still be able to hold its ground in terms of image quality for at least another 5 years from now on?

On the other hand, the 6D MKII is packed full with lots of features, however I am concerned due to the missing dual card slots (although I have never had any issues with my SanDisk memory cards for 10 years) and if to many features packed in it, might lead it to break under its own weight. Of course customers are demanding these days as some are aware of the technical specs of cameras and I wonder if either the insecurity of the missing slot or the age of the other camera might turn them away.

I know, I might sound crazy, but this is one of the very few acquisitions I am absolutely disoriented in years. Usually I did some thorough research and then I was able to decide. In this case, there are so many unknowns.

This is why I rely on all your input, as maybe through your experience the choice will be a bit clearer for me.

Thanks again for your time and help!

Paul


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 22, 2017)

The camera looks amazing and I will almost certainly be pre-ordering, but how in the world does this camera, in 2017, not have usb 3.0? not even micro usb... Are they sourcing parts from an antique shop? Given that I'm not holding out much hope for UHS III card reader... Hopefully we at least get UHS II lol.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

LightPainter said:


> @ Ken & Don Thank you for your input on this topic!
> 
> Yes, I already semi-retired my EF-S 18-55 and went for the EF 16-35 f4 IS, which I absolutely love. Tested it in the store briefly with a 5D mk IV. Spectacular on a full frame body. My next lens on the wishlist would be an EF 70-200 f 2.8 IS II. This should cover the tele end nicely and I have seen some great pics in some reviews.
> 
> ...



If you have the luxury of waiting a few months, you will have a better idea of what the 6D2 is really like and will get to see some reviews. Plus, after the initial surge in sales, there should be a price drop. 5D3 prices should also drop as time goes on. 

As to the second card slot, I wonder what the possibilities are for backing up "as you go" by WiFi to an external device are? I find it interesting that my phone backs up images to the cloud whenever I get into range of a WiFi hotspot and wonder if there was some way to do the same with my camera?


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> The camera looks amazing and I will almost certainly be pre-ordering, but how in the world does this camera, in 2017, not have usb 3.0? not even micro usb... Are they sourcing parts from an antique shop? Given that I'm not holding out much hope for UHS III card reader... Hopefully we at least get UHS II lol.



2 1/2 years ago, I picked up a 7D2..... it had USB 3.0 and I was surprised that it did not come with a UHS II slot....

Fast forward to now, and the 6D2 has moved BACKWARDS ? ? ? ? with USB and the UHS II slot is still doubtful?

Generally, I think Canon gets things right, but I think they got these two wrong....


----------



## Zv (Jun 22, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > The camera looks amazing and I will almost certainly be pre-ordering, but how in the world does this camera, in 2017, not have usb 3.0? not even micro usb... Are they sourcing parts from an antique shop? Given that I'm not holding out much hope for UHS III card reader... Hopefully we at least get UHS II lol.
> ...



Purely my anecdotal input here but I've never really used the USB port on my 6D. I tether using Wifi on my iPad or iPhone. Though I can see USB 3.0 being useful for those that don't have an SD slot on their PC (also means not having to ever remove the card from camera when transferring images). I totally agree the 6DII should have USB 3.0 but just wondering how essential USB is for most people.


----------



## Isaacheus (Jun 23, 2017)

Apologies if this has already been asked, but are there any rumors or hints to any new features that might be included, unique to this?


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 23, 2017)

@LightPainter. I had the $$ but chose the 6D over the 5D3 and never regretted it as far as usability goes. I then bought a used 1D4 for more FPS (wildlife) but came to realize that one thing that gets better with time(technology) is high ISO performance. It couldn't match the 6D by quite a margin. I would be hesitant to spend significant dollars on the 5D3 but maybe if it was a bargain. I have put my 6D up for sale today and will likely get the 6D2 even though I can afford the 5D4 - I don't want that weight (1DX2 is enough). The 6D2 improvements are very desirable, IMHO.

If I shot weddings then the second slot would concern me (agree, you need a backup strategy), otherwise it'd be 6D2 for me.

Jack


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 23, 2017)

Zv said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > nightscape123 said:
> ...


When we combine the fact that Canon has all the marketing data, plus the fact that they left USB 3.0 out, the logical conclusion is that for most people who buy this camera, it does not matter....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yep. That, and no in-camera HDR. My 1D X is nerfed.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 23, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> magarity said:
> 
> 
> > I guess they assume users should transfer pictures with the wifi? Great except that sucks down the battery and requires special software.
> ...



Hmm. I know it's slightly different but I almost always plug in the USB cable as I'm shooting on a CF card and my laptop doesn't have a slot for that. Is it really that unusual? I've heard mixed things about external card readers, and it's an extra device to have, when the cable is already there (and I'm rarely time limited so uploads don't need to be lightning fast).

(I used to use an SD card and remove it, but I knocked my computer one day, and the card snapped in the slot and the slot no longer works. I'm not sure which way is safer). (Incidentally, I find the slim, wide (micro?) USB leads much flimsier and less reliable than the old (mini?) ones).

~~~

Incidentally, I'm not all that bothered by 4K in general, but 4K timelapse is exciting. That's one area I think would really benefit from more resolution without generating lots of heat or requiring special processors etc (and it's all combined in camera, so there's not so much pesky editing afterwards).


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 23, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I honestly don't remember the last time I connected my camera directly to a my computer.
> ...



And, I tether mine almost daily, it spent several hours tethered yesterday photographing products. Thats the thing about features like that, some use them, some don't. I don't use video, and mostly use the center point except twice a year when I photograph a local theater production. The AF points on the 5D MK III really don't spread out enough for me, but its better than nothing. I'm interested in the PDAF, because of the accurate focusing, mabe I would no longer have to tether the camera and focus at 5 or 10X on a big monitor.


----------



## luisbelo (Jun 23, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



hbr said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I also agree. When one throws terms like Nerfed, Crippled, or Fanboy into a conversation, they come with a lot of emotional baggage (that varies from person to person) and makes it harder to get your point across as the moment they see Nerfed, it sets a tone that usually gets associated with extreme (and often unreasonable) viewpoints that spawns even more extreme responses..... How can one recover from that?
> ...



Just because it could have 4k that necessarily mean it would be more expensive...


----------



## RiceCanon (Jun 23, 2017)

Features sound great to me so far! I'm hoping for meaningful improvements in dynamic range and high ISO performance. Also would really like to see F8 autofocus and a built-in intervalometer!


----------



## captainkanji (Jun 23, 2017)

I'm gonna shoot the Street Machine Nationals this weekend and then prepare my 6D for sale. Improved IQ and AF have me excited. I can go without a camera for a few months. *sadface.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

Isaacheus said:


> Apologies if this has already been asked, but are there any rumors or hints to any new features that might be included, unique to this?



That's the remaining wildcard, I'd say. In previous bodies, we got pleasant surprises that weren't really on any of our wish lists:

DPAF
Silent shutter
Anti-flicker
DPRAW
Shutter delay to minimize vibration

(I'm sure I've missed some, the gang will keep pipe up I'm sure)

So what will the 6D2 get? Your guess is as good as mine.

- A


----------



## pj1974 (Jun 23, 2017)

scyrene said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > magarity said:
> ...



I have taken over 200,000 photos with my 3 x Canon DSLRs, and approximately the same number with digital P&S before my first DSLR.
For most of the P&S photos, I took the cards out of the camera (Kodak CF, Fuji SmartMedia - anyone else use and remember them?)
But for almost all of the time, with my DSLRs I have plugged the DSLR directly into my PC. I transfer files, and work on sorting through them as they copy across (e.g. remove poor quality photos, copy best images to favourites folder, etc).
I have a very streamlined process in place. :
The reason I connect my DSLRs in to my computer via cable directly, is because I have seen others with bent pins inside cameras- being costly & inconvenient to repair.
My first two DSLRs were the Canon 350D and 7D, and I now also have a Canon 80D. So only the 80D uses SD cards. I still just prefer to plug the DSLR directly into the PC via a cable.

Plus I find it more convenient to plug in a micro USB cord - rather than as removing a card (CF or SD) and placing it in a card reader, then taking memory card out, and putting it back in camera. 
File transfers do not drain the battery much either. Sure, I would love USB 3.0 (I am looking forward to that USB 3.0 in my next digital camera). A shame USB 3.0 wasn't a part of the 80D... but oh well. 

I agree that having an extra device on my desk puts me off using a USB card reader (though I still have 1, and used them in the past). Back in the days when cameras were much slower (and USB 1.1) - well it was worth getting a USB 2.0 Card reader!
And I also agree that mini USB is a more preferred (more stable, less fiddly) connector than micro USB. I wish there would be 1 standard... my mobile phone and wireless headphone use micro USB, but most of my other devices (MP3 player, cameras) use mini USB.

About 4K and timelapse... this is one reason why I prefer to use an external intervalometer, and use my 350D (which at 8MP) gives me 4K timelapses. That way, when I upload all the photos to my PC -and run through GoPro Studio - to create timelapse, I can get output at the resolution I like (I usually export at different resolutions / bit rate, which is convenient). While a little bit time consuming, I don't find it too 'pesky'.
The full resolution version is 4K, so that's 'future proofing' it (Because, as I understand, doing timelapse in camera reduces the resolution). In fact, I have sourced a few extra very cheap 2nd hand 350Ds in the past few months, so that I have a 'stock' of cameras to do timelapses. I often take a few thousand photos at a time e.g. to do some longer period timelapses of clouds / landscape, which highlight the changing light throughout (parts of) the day. I don't want to add shutter actuations to my 7D or 80D, when I can use a few old perfectly good 350D cameras. 

That's my contribution... in a 6DmkII (rumour / about-to-be-announced) thread.

So just to keep it on topic, the 6DmkII looks from the specs to be a very decent performer. Canon has really lifted their game with regard to sensor performance in recent models (80D, 5DmkIV and 1DXii, etc)- and I expect the 6DmkII will be great (the original 6D had a very good sensor in it for its time). 

And hopefully - and more importantly - the 6DmkII will be used by many happy photographers to take many many treasured images, over many years... of people, places, memories, etc. 

Regards, 

PJ 8)


----------



## Famateur (Jun 23, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



candyman said:


> and...is center point sensitive to -4 EV? That would be a step up from the Canon 5D MKIV.
> 
> and...*EC in manual mode when using auto iso*?



*This *would be fantastic to have. I always shoot in manual mode, but only rarely shoot with Auto ISO because it generally over-exposes on my camera. How I'd love to be able to set Exposure Compensation for Auto ISO!


----------



## Sidepod (Jun 23, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Fast forward to now, and the 6D2 has moved BACKWARDS ? ? ? ? with USB and the UHS II slot is still doubtful?



It'll have UHS I in order to prevent a highres video mode via ML


----------



## Diamir (Jun 23, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> in 2017, not have usb 3.0? not even micro usb...


Today's world is ... wireless !


----------



## JMKE (Jun 23, 2017)

I do hope that it has an internal intervalometer does output in raw files. And not just a movie file.
Don't know how this is on the 5D4/80D


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 23, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Famateur said:


> *This *would be fantastic to have. I always shoot in manual mode, but only rarely shoot with Auto ISO because it generally over-exposes on my camera. How I'd love to be able to set Exposure Compensation for Auto ISO!



Given that the 80D has it, I'm pretty certain that the 6DII will have it as well.

But it won't have any really properly designed access to it, unlike the 7DII / 5DIV. You'll have to configure its SET button to do that.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 23, 2017)

pj1974 said:


> And I also agree that mini USB is a more preferred (more stable, less fiddly) connector than micro USB. I wish there would be 1 standard... my mobile phone and wireless headphone use micro USB, but most of my other devices (MP3 player, cameras) use mini USB.



As an aside, since a few people have discussed mini- vs micro-USB, the major driving force behind that change was not durability, it was purely an outright smaller connector to allow thinner mobile devices. On a thicker device there is precious little reason to use it; Garmin only very recently switched their bike computers to micro-, and mini- is still used a number of places. Yes, on new devices. The cable situation will get worse, not better, with Type C. Think of it as having just a couple of cable types total instead of the bad old days (back in the '90s), when every device had its own proprietary power and data cable...


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Isaacheus said:
> 
> 
> > Apologies if this has already been asked, but are there any rumors or hints to any new features that might be included, unique to this?
> ...


The 5 axis video stabilization.....


----------



## LightPainter (Jun 23, 2017)

@Jack Douglas Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic.

Unfortunately I will have to make the purchase by latest early August, as I'm planning on travelling in the second part of August and I would love to take the new camera for a test run.

In terms of price I believe that I could get the 5D MK III @ ~ 2,500 EUR - 150 EUR cashback. So basically 2350 EUR for a brand new 5D MK III with warranty. The 6D MK II will probably end up around the same price, maybe a bit cheaper. 

Based on your feedback & the opinions of Don & Ken, I am inclining towards the 5D MK III heavily, as I can see it as a reliable work horse for almost any type of photography. On the other hand I am sure that the 6D MK II will be a great camera in terms of features & IQ, however I am afraid it will set a certain limit on the potential occasions I will encounter in order to transform photography into a part-time source of revenue.

Thanks again, guys, for all your help! 

Have a great weekend!

Paul


----------



## pj1974 (Jun 23, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > And I also agree that mini USB is a more preferred (more stable, less fiddly) connector than micro USB. I wish there would be 1 standard... my mobile phone and wireless headphone use micro USB, but most of my other devices (MP3 player, cameras) use mini USB.
> ...



Yes... that's a valid point - that thinner modern devices often require the micro shaped jack. (Though I would like a universal one, somewhere in between - as I think even many thin devices do not have to have quite as thin as 'micro'- but yes, no need for too many new tyes... e.g. type C, etc.

I did a LOT of computing in both the 80's and the 90's - including building my own PCs - so ha ha... I am so fully aware of all the cable types back from the 'good' (bad) old days! Sometimes computer companies made one fitting that was unique to one peripheral component / model... and never used again... it was crazy! Thankfully we've come a long way since then.

Cheers... and regards

Paul


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 23, 2017)

JMKE said:


> I do hope that it has an internal intervalometer does output in raw files. And not just a movie file.
> Don't know how this is on the 5D4/80D


On the 80D the electronic intervalometer allows two forms of file export:
i) normal stills (RAW or JPEG as per image quality settings)
ii) instead of the above, export as 1920x1080 timelapse movie.

From the rumoured specs the 6D-II might appears to offer both 
i) as described for the 80D, while
ii) would be at a the Ultra HD resolution of 3840x2160 timelapse movie


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 23, 2017)

I wonder what customization options will be available for the "SET" button and the "*" button.


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 23, 2017)

StudentOfLight said:


> I wonder what customization options will be available for the "SET" button and the "*" button.



I wouldn't expect anything more than what the 80D's got unfortunately.


----------



## NorbR (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Right -- totally forgot door #3: keeping shooting your 6D until Canon's FF mirrorless platform arrives. That all but certainly will give you MF peaking/focus assist through the viewfinder.
> 
> - A



That's the door I'm going for. 8)

I have a small collection of Zeiss ZE lenses that, at the moment, see very little use (only the 21mm gets used on a somewhat regular basis). I've tried a few on my M5 and the peaking works great, but ergonomically (with the adapter) it's just not a great combination. Maybe with the ZE 50mm, and even so it's already front heavy. I'm waiting for the unicorn FF mirrorless, with native EF mount and the general shape and size of a 6D body, that will be a match made in heaven for these lenses. 

In the meantime I'll keep pairing them to my 6D. I'm still tempted by the Mark II, but no interchangeable focus screen means I'd have to keep the 6D around anyway, and I don't want to add a third body.


----------



## mahdi_mak2000 (Jun 23, 2017)

i wish to see touch function to change focus point on VF, like M5
changing focus points using direction pad is pain in rear end


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > And no "Green Box" mode..... apparently Canon does not think 1DX users need it. It is obviously crippling the 1DX2 to protect sales of the 6D2
> ...



Hey, don't knock the green box mode! 

Seriously, Canon's green box is a life saver and works well. Nothing easier to do when handing your fancy camera over to a stranger to get a shot of me and the wife while on vacation.

I miss that on my Fuji cameras. And the X-T10, has an "auto" switch that very much does NOT do what I would like (hint: Fuji should look to Canon on this one). Here is my short PSA. One, even though it is suppose to be "full auto", it apparently still cares about the shooting mode dial in front ((S)ingle (C)ontinuous (M)anual). I shoot in M a lot for BBF. Which means if I just flip the switch to auto, it won't focus. Also, and this one kills me, it won't shoot RAW. Auto mode will override your picture setting and just shoot jpeg.

So I love the GREEN BOX!


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > And no "Green Box" mode..... apparently Canon does not think 1DX users need it. It is obviously crippling the 1DX2 to protect sales of the 6D2
> ...



AND... I bet when it was announced you came on here and complained about it, predicted Canon to be "*******" and how you were going to go buy a Sony (but quietly bought the 1D X anyway).


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Isaacheus said:
> 
> 
> > Apologies if this has already been asked, but are there any rumors or hints to any new features that might be included, unique to this?
> ...



Well DPAF appears to be in. I'd think (97% sure) we'd keep the silent shutter, which really was fairly silent on the current 6D. 

I'm just assuming hoping we get the new anti-flicker and new metering system I think we first saw with the 7D2. The metering (and auto WB) both felt a little weak on the 6D, I had higher expectations. Of course nothing one couldn't compensate for or work with.

You're last two... not sure.


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 23, 2017)

*Re: 6D2 photos posted, new specs as well*



Famateur said:


> candyman said:
> 
> 
> > and...is center point sensitive to -4 EV? That would be a step up from the Canon 5D MKIV.
> ...



Agreed! This would be very nice to have. Especially with so many cameras having a dedicated EC dial on them (that works all the time) it would be nice to have this in (M)anual. I've worked around it in post (usually the camera is within a stop) or (since I BBF) lock in the exposure with a half shutter press then compose. Example, shooting subject standing in front of bright windows. Point the camera down at their feet, lock exposure, compose back up and shoot. I know the 1D line has this, and the 5D4 has it as well, correct? And the 7D2 got it as well? If so, I'm hopeful we'll see it in this new 6D2.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 23, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


and particularly with a flash!

I can't imagine handing over my camera/flash to a stranger in anything other than "green box" mode. It really works well!


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Well DPAF appears to be in. I'd think (97% sure) we'd keep the silent shutter, which really was fairly silent on the current 6D.
> 
> I'm just assuming hoping we get the new anti-flicker and new metering system I think we first saw with the 7D2. The metering (and auto WB) both felt a little weak on the 6D, I had higher expectations. Of course nothing one couldn't compensate for or work with.
> 
> You're last two... not sure.



Sorry, Luds, that's not what I meant. I believe Isaacheus was curious was secret _new_ feature hotness the 6D2 might get -- I was just citing past examples of those sorts of surprises.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, Canon's green box is a life saver and works well. Nothing easier to do when handing your fancy camera over to a stranger to get a shot of me and the wife while on vacation.
> ...



My 'please take our picture' move is to use Av, set AF to the full 61 pt spread and set auto-ISO to an overly generous minimum shutter speed, say 1/125 for a 24-70 lens. That way I can pre-cook the composition to isolate us or include something interesting in the background.

But I've never tried a 'green box handoff' when my speedlite is in use. Thanks, I'll have to try that.

- A


----------



## dmtml (Jun 23, 2017)

StudentOfLight said:


> I wonder what customization options will be available for the "SET" button and the "*" button.



I'm really hoping it has the ability to have AF-ON and * be different AF modes. On my 5D IV I have the AF-ON as Single point, and * as Zone AF. For me it's almost a deal breaker feature now.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 23, 2017)

Green box mode ftw when handing off to a non-photographer to take a photo.


----------



## hbr (Jun 23, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Hey, don't knock the green box mode!
> 
> Seriously, Canon's green box is a life saver and works well. Nothing easier to do when handing your fancy camera over to a stranger to get a shot of me and the wife while on vacation.
> 
> ...



I found out accidentally that both my 6D and my 7D II will shoot RAW in the Green Box Mode. I was teaching a friend of mine who still was using the 450D, (and only used the Green Box Mode), about using the features of the newer cameras. I changed the cameras to the Green Box Mode and handed them to her to try out. In order for her to take the photos home, I let her take the SD cards home to download the pictures. It wasn't very long before she called me and asked me what was wrong. Her computer couldn't read the files. I had her bring me the cards and sure enough the files were all .CR2 files. I was shocked!
So, although I have only shot in the "M" mode for the last 10 years, I now find the Green Box Mode useful for stills, especially on days when the sun is constantly changing from sunny to going between clouds.


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 23, 2017)

dmtml said:


> I'm really hoping it has the ability to have AF-ON and * be different AF modes. On my 5D IV I have the AF-ON as Single point, and * as Zone AF. For me it's almost a deal breaker feature now.



In your dreams . We already have quite enough clues that this won't go any further than a FF 80D as far as controls go (the replacement of the M-fn button by a simpler non customisable AF mode toggle button is one of them for example).


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Well DPAF appears to be in. I'd think (97% sure) we'd keep the silent shutter, which really was fairly silent on the current 6D.
> ...



Haha, my apologies. I thought your statement seeemed odd.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 23, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Who has a better idea of the current camera market? You? I think not.
> ...



What you cannot grasp, and I don't know why, is that lack of implementation of those things you listed, is likely NOT a mistake. Not a mistake. Else Canon would have implemented them. I don't know why you can't get this?


----------



## dcm (Jun 23, 2017)

Never really used Green Box mode myself. When I upgraded from 6D to 1DX2 I didn't miss it at all. I started with a Canon A-1 when they introduced P mode to the industry (before green box). P mode always been sufficient for me when I hand a camera off - I still can dial in ISO, exposure compensation, metering mode, etc. and flip the lock on. I sometimes use P mode when I need a quick shot or flash, but most of the time I'm in M or Av modes.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2013/20131029_winston_pmode_blog.shtml


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 23, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Who has a better idea of the current camera market? You? I think not.
> ...



so in other words, you think you have a better idea of the camera market, otherwise it wouldn't be a mistake, simply product segmentation that canon feels the market can handle.

canon most likely knows just exactly how much R&D it would require to implement "a better implementation of 4K" is has obviously deemed it not worth it.

Since their marketshare jumped 5% with very little 4K products actually shipping at the time - it's pretty likely they knew exactly what they are doing, and you do not.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> canon most likely knows just exactly how much R&D it would require to implement "a better implementation of 4K" is has obviously deemed it not worth it.



I'm no video person at all, but is there any chance Canon has internal standards of what _they_ consider to be the minimum quality / stabilty / performance expectations of 4K (as a company) and that 6D2 simply couldn't handle it?

Perhaps some other requirements that weren't cost related -- say, making it as light/compact as possible -- trumped 4K in the initial design stages, and then when they tried to run 4K with that design it ran too hot, wasn't stable, required a different internal design, componentry, etc. At that Canon point might have just said, small and light is more important than 4K in this segment, so we're going to stick with what we have at 1080.

I'm not being a Canon apologist here, but it's possible this wasn't just about cost or protecting the attractiveness of the 5D4, right?

- A


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > canon most likely knows just exactly how much R&D it would require to implement "a better implementation of 4K" is has obviously deemed it not worth it.
> ...



I would assume very much that Canon's internal quality requirements are the sticking point here. It's not, I'm sure, that they can't do 4k, but they don't want a pile of fine print on the press release, they don't want cameras overheating and shutting down, and they'll want a certain bitrate/ codec/ whatever to put their name on it.

In another post somewhere recently here I called Canon a "conservative" company and I think that's correct - their approach will be to follow, implement features after others, but make better implementations prizing stability over splash. It'll be frustrating for people who want all the shiniest new features, but it's nice for people who want a very stable, reliable camera system. This goes back to the talk of the USB port choice on the 6D2 earlier in this thread - I'd assume that Canon will be literally the last camera company to start rolling out the Type C connectors. Sony will be the first.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > canon most likely knows just exactly how much R&D it would require to implement "a better implementation of 4K" is has obviously deemed it not worth it.
> ...



it's impossible to know how hard it would be to put a "proper implementation of 4K" into a canon DSLR. Since they've never done it.

to implement the 4K that is in the 5D / 1DX .. ie: MJPEG, then most likely better heat sinking, increased weight of the camera, etc would be the counter to providing 4K MJJPEG. is it possible I'm sure, but we don't know the thermal dynamics and difficulties of doing so


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 23, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> I called Canon a "conservative" company and I think that's correct



I doubt it. it's just what they consider important. type C USB? not important really. I mean you really have to be anal retentive to get up in arms over that. for example, they were the first with lan ports in the pro sports cameras.

Canon was the first with a full frame camera that shot 4K .. by around a year actually. it actually wasn't until around 3 years after the 1DC that another full frame camera shot and recorded 4K internally.

their liveview / touchscreen system is second to none, except some may argue panasonic's is a better UI/UX for liveview / LCD experience.
DPAF,etc - extremely innovative.

I think some people just place different priorities on cameras than canon does.


----------



## BillB (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > canon most likely knows just exactly how much R&D it would require to implement "a better implementation of 4K" is has obviously deemed it not worth it.
> ...



I would be surprised if Canon did not have a pretty well defined roadmap for implementing 4K capabilities, and think it likely that the 6DII was designed from the beginning in the context of that roadmap. I would guess that the inclusion of 4K in the 6DII was ruled out from the beginning, or at least very early in the process, and that the protection of the 5DIV had very little to do with it. Technical feasibility, implementation costs and assessment of potential demand are all factors that would have been considered.

Judging by the 6DII's features, it seems to me that Canon's strategy was to produce a camera with very user friendly 1080 video capability that would be attractive to potential buyers who just wanted to make good quality video with no hassles. 4k was not part of that concept, especially at the $2000 price point.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2017)

BillB said:


> I would be surprised if Canon did not have a pretty well defined roadmap for implementing 4K capabilities, and think it likely that the 6DII was designed from the beginning in the context of that roadmap. I would guess that the inclusion of 4K in the 6DII was ruled out from the beginning, or at least very early in the process, and that the protection of the 5DIV had very little to do with it. Technical feasibility, implementation costs and assessment of potential demand are all factors that would have been considered.



Naaah. They just sat in their big office thinking of how they could best screw over a handful of internet trolls. 

"_Kon'nichiwa, Maeda-san. Could we consider omitting 4K from the new 6D Mark II?_"


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > I would be surprised if Canon did not have a pretty well defined roadmap for implementing 4K capabilities, and think it likely that the 6DII was designed from the beginning in the context of that roadmap. I would guess that the inclusion of 4K in the 6DII was ruled out from the beginning, or at least very early in the process, and that the protection of the 5DIV had very little to do with it. Technical feasibility, implementation costs and assessment of potential demand are all factors that would have been considered.
> ...



I'm quite sure they have a roadmap, and it's entirely possible that they couldn't include 4K on the 6DII, even with a Digic 7 chip. Maybe there was an overheating issue, or some other issue. The rigidity of their process and their thinking could just be an issue- perhaps they still use a waterfall strategy instead of an Agile approach in their product design. This might prohibit them from making quick course corrections and adding the latest tech- the 5DIV still having the older HDMI spec, for instance. It's also possible that in addition to that, they didn't WANT to. 

By the way- by calling us "trolls," you're doing a disservice to everyone on here who legitimately loves Canon products and wants them to beef up their video specs. Something to think about.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 23, 2017)

The solution is simple. Just ignore and don't respond to comments that you feel are unjustified or ignorant.  Opinions are just opinions. Or, debate the same old stuff over and over and ....

Jack


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## rrcphoto (Jun 23, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



for a 1 / 5D series camera it takes over 3 years from initial conception to production. it'll still be something similar for the 6D.

complaining about video won't do diddly to canon's plans. you want to complain to canon. write to them, write on their own forums, etc. here? means nothing.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 23, 2017)

LSXPhotog said:


> but I know for a fact *some unknown number of* consumers shopping for cameras DO care about features like that *and many obviously don't*.



Fixed it for you...


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

I'm getting more and more convinced each day that folks that use video will never ever be happy with their video specs in a non-video-dedicated rig like an SLR / mirrorless setup.

With all the speculation in the (seemingly endless) run-up to the 5D4 announcement, some were dead set we'd get 4K, others thought Canon might withhold it to keep folks buying much pricier options up the line, etc. I had a nutty theory it would have 4K good to go from day one but Canon would only announce it as a 1080 rig, secretly firmware locking out 4K to protect pricier products. Then, if the 5D masses revolted from no 4K on the 5D4, Canon could unlock it as a gift from the firmware gods.

But the 5D4 got 4K and everyone lived happily ever after. 

I kid. Canon conjured up a fourth route we hadn't seriously considered: 4K made the spec list so the villagers won't come at them with torches and pitchforks, but the _specifics_ of the 4K let some folks down. How did people respond? _People just found the next level deeper of unreasonable expectations to be upset about._ 

By the time a FF readout / 1:1 crop 4K rig comes out for Canon at a $2-3k price point, I'd imagine the developments in smaller sensored space (the GH line comes to mind) will have video folks wondering where the 6k/8k is, let alone what they wanted last year.

Hence, my argument: they will never ever be happy with their specs. (Not from Canon at least.) I don't personally have a problem with that -- unreasonable expectations folks are fine -- until they imply their position/logic/worldview is the *only* position/logic/worldview. Then I tune out.

- A


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 23, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> By the way- by calling us "trolls," you're doing a disservice to everyone on here who legitimately loves Canon products and wants them to beef up their video specs. Something to think about.



"I would like to have FF 4k video and I don't understand why they have not done it" = an unfulfilled wishlist

"I would like to have FF 4k video and Canon refuse to do despite it being possible because they want to protect their [name you choice] line and they are ******* because everyone thinks it is important and will switch Sony cameras instead by mid 2018" = egotistical troll


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 23, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> By the way- by calling us "trolls," you're doing a disservice to everyone on here who legitimately loves Canon products and wants them to beef up their video specs. Something to think about.



Something else to think about is where, and how often, you argue your case. 

_Hint_: here, interminably, won't make blind bit of difference to Canon, but it will guarantee a certain reaction from other forum users...


----------



## BillB (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I'm getting more and more convinced each day that folks that use video will never ever be happy with their video specs in a non-video-dedicated rig like an SLR / mirrorless setup.
> 
> With all the speculation in the (seemingly endless) run-up to the 5D4 announcement, some were dead set we'd get 4K, others thought Canon might withhold it to keep folks buying much pricier options up the line, etc. I had a nutty theory it would have 4K good to go from day one but Canon would only announce it as a 1080 rig, secretly firmware locking out 4K to protect pricier products. Then, if the 5D masses revolted from no 4K on the 5D4, Canon could unlock it as a gift from the firmware gods.
> 
> ...



Canon has to figure out who is out there who cares about 4K video, how much they are willing to pay for it, figure out what kind of camera can meet that need, and then build that camera. Whatever Canon does in 4K video, it seems a fair bet that it will be based on dual pixel technology, which they have been rolling out for a couple of years. While they were rolling out dual pixel technology, they haven't exactly been pushing the envelope on video implementation. 

I am wondering whether the next Canon move in 4K will be with an APS-C camera, rather than full frame. That was where they made their first push in dual pixel implementation. Not that I know anything, I suspect that some of the technical issues may be easier to deal with using an APS-C sensor. There is some pretty expensive equipment out there that uses much smaller than full frame sensors.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> "I would like to have FF 4k video and I don't understand why they have not done it" = an unfulfilled wishlist
> 
> "I would like to have FF 4k video and Canon refuse to do despite it being possible because they want to protect their [name you choice] line and they are ******* because everyone thinks it is important and will switch Sony cameras instead by mid 2018" = egotistical troll



The latter is more delusional than a troll, but I hear you. Nothing makes you lose more credibility than implying there is a horde of people that agree with you that don't seem to be taking part in the conversation.

Or that all Canon needs is an EF-M 85mm f/2.4 IS STM and millions would buy it.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

BillB said:


> I am wondering whether the next Canon move in 4K will be with an APS-C camera, rather than full frame.



You are not crazy at all for thinking that. I can't speak to pixel binning mathematical mojo, processing needs, etc. of crop vs. full frame, but something as simple as _release timing_ may see a crop rig -- 90D, I'm looking at you -- get 4K before another FF rig does.

Consider: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg669658#msg669658

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > By the way- by calling us "trolls," you're doing a disservice to everyone on here who legitimately loves Canon products and wants them to beef up their video specs. Something to think about.
> ...



+1


----------



## brad-man (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > "I would like to have FF 4k video and I don't understand why they have not done it" = an unfulfilled wishlist
> ...




Is that a cheap shot at the "I want faster EF-M lenses" crowd? If so, you're liable to piss off two or three dozen people...


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2017)

brad-man said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Or that all Canon needs is an EF-M 85mm f/2.4 IS STM and millions would buy it.
> ...



Not at all -- I'd love faster EF-M glass, with USM to boot. 

The dig was aimed at one specific event -- bit of an inside joke / running gag, sorry.

- A


----------



## brad-man (Jun 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Mine too.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 24, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I'm getting more and more convinced each day that folks that use video will never ever be happy with their video specs in a non-video-dedicated rig like an SLR / mirrorless setup.
> 
> With all the speculation in the (seemingly endless) run-up to the 5D4 announcement, some were dead set we'd get 4K, others thought Canon might withhold it to keep folks buying much pricier options up the line, etc. I had a nutty theory it would have 4K good to go from day one but Canon would only announce it as a 1080 rig, secretly firmware locking out 4K to protect pricier products. Then, if the 5D masses revolted from no 4K on the 5D4, Canon could unlock it as a gift from the firmware gods.
> 
> ...



That last thread had people already talking about having 6k and 8k screens meaning that obviously they'd need 6k and 8k video before the 6D3 came out. This is why I've said putting video on a DSLR at all in the first place was a mistake - all it does is create unrealistic expectations that will never be met for a full-featured video camera. And for cheap, of course.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 24, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> +1



On the same page for the most part - works for me...


----------



## Macoose (Jun 24, 2017)

I saw a rumor somewhere (I don't remember where though) about the lens kits that may be available and I am wondering what may be the best one for me.

They were the: 
1. EF 24-70 f4 L IS USM
2. EF 24-105 f3.5-5.6 IS STM
3. EF 24-105 f4 L IS II USM.


If Canon discounts either of the L lenses with the kit, I may consider one or the other. If they don't, I'll probably get the less expensive 24-105. The problem with this lens is that I don't know much about it other than I've read some reviews which are generally good. Brian at TDP likes it.

As far as I know I haven't seen one. And I haven't talked to anyone who owns one. 

If it's the same quality and has the equivalent IQ as the 18-135 STM that came on my 7DII, I'd be happy.
I understand nothing's perfect but am looking for some advice.


Thanks,

Macoose


----------



## Pippan (Jun 24, 2017)

dcm said:


> Never really used Green Box mode myself. When I upgraded from 6D to 1DX2 I didn't miss it at all. I started with a Canon A-1 when they introduced P mode to the industry (before green box). P mode always been sufficient for me when I hand a camera off - I still can dial in ISO, exposure compensation, metering mode, etc. and flip the lock on. I sometimes use P mode when I need a quick shot or flash, but most of the time I'm in M or Av modes.


The problem with handing over your camera in P mode is that it'll still be on back-button focus and the person will wonder why they can't focus it. Green box returns focus to the shutter button.


----------



## Zv (Jun 24, 2017)

Macoose said:


> I saw a rumor somewhere (I don't remember where though) about the lens kits that may be available and I am wondering what may be the best one for me.
> 
> They were the:
> 1. EF 24-70 f4 L IS USM
> ...



You can't go wrong with either one of those lenses. They're all better than than the 18-135 STM. The choice would depend mainly on what you like to shoot. 

The 24-70 has, arguably, the best IQ of the three. It also has the added bonus of some macro range. It's small and compact, very useful for general purpose, landscapes and travel. The IS on this lens is really good. IQ is particularly good at the wide end. Paired up with a 70-200 lens like the f/4L IS makes a great combination. 

The 24-105 STM is lighter and cheaper but doesn't have a constant f/4 aperture like the other two which can be a little annoying if you reframe shots a lot by zooming in and out. However if you park it at f/5.6 or narrower it's not an issue which is fine if shallow DOF isn't your primary concern. The slower aperture might be an issue when light levels get low so if you shoot in the dark a lot this might not be the best choice. This lens is more of a general use lens like the 18-135. Personally variable aperture lenses drive me nuts, I prefer the constant aperture. 

The 24-105LII has more range than 24-70 so it's more useful if you also like to shoot in the portrait range (85mm ish). The added range is good if you don't like switching lenses too often. The IQ is similar to the 24-70 though it may not be quite as good at the wide end. The IS is also really good on this lens. Another good one for general purpose and travel. This would be my choice as I like to shoot a variety of subjects.


----------



## Macoose (Jun 24, 2017)

Thanks, Zv.

I use the 18-135 for just about all short shooting (static displays at airshows, in the pits at the drag races, etc).
It works well for my purposes.

That's mainly how I would use the 6DII with a kits lens.

Thanks for the advice.

Macoose


----------



## Act444 (Jun 24, 2017)

The 24-70 also has the least amount of distortion (at 24mm) of the three. A big deal if shooting buildings, etc. However, the 24-105L (version I at least) is the better performer in the 50-70mm range.


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 24, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Keith_Reeder said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



Being the squeaky wheel still doesn't make one a troll. That was wishful thinking


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2017)

Macoose, 

Zv's and Act's advice is spot on, and I'll echo that all three lenses are a healthy step up from your 18-135. The sharpness will be better for all three of those lenses, and the two L lenses further are weather sealed (with a front filter), have a constant max aperture and will be significantly quicker to focus with USM. 

Personally, if you're stepping up to a $2000 rig and principally shoot a standard zoom over standard primes, as much as the 24-105 STM is a good instrument, I would recommend getting one the L lenses. 

I personally adore my 24-70 f/4L for landscape work on the 24 end and the stellar 0.7x macro opportunity that lets me leave my 100L at home on informal walkabouts and hikes. It's the perfect hiking lens, IMHO. It's also shorter and lighter than the 24-105L II, in some cases allowing you to walk it in to sporting events (depending on the venue).

But if you've grown accustomed to the 18-135 reach (a 28.8-216mm FF equivalent), you likely will feel quite handcuffed with only a 24-70 zoom. I'm guessing, and I could be wrong, but a 24-105 will better suit you.

And if low cost and/or reach is imperative in a standard zoom for you, there is the old 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM. It's nearly a 20 year old design and the other options on your list poop all over it optically, but it goes to 135mm, has USM and IS, and costs a fraction of the others on your list.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 24, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Keith_Reeder said:
> ...



actually it kind of does if that's all you do.

there's two or three posters that basically 99% of their posts are about that one topic. they dont' contribute anything else. that makes the poster a troll in my book.


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 24, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Being the squeaky wheel still doesn't make one a troll. That was wishful thinking



It depends on how you squeak, and whether you do much else except squeak. As everyone here has said in various ways, it's OK to express your preferences and opinions politely. It is not OK to accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a shill, stupid, sheep, or similar. (I'm not saying you have, I haven't read all of your posts) It's also fruitless and annoying to claim that your particular desire, need, or preferred way of using gear is representative of the majority of photographers, and therefore Canon should do what you want. (Again, I'm not saying you have). There's a third category of "squeaky wheel," the revolutionary: the revolutionary has vain hopes of starting a grass-roots consumer rebellion against "big camera," using their great popular power to compel the giants to release the physics-bending tech they've been keeping from all but the inner circle of their cabal. There will be no popular photographic uprising. You have three paths to provide your feedback to Canon:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Buy a different brand of gear
[*]Write them a letter, explaining what you want or expect, and why
[*]Participate in surveys if you're asked
[/list]

That's it. Any other form of squeaking is just barroom chatter.


----------



## Macoose (Jun 24, 2017)

Thanks guys,

I've got plenty of time to see what lenses Canon pairs with the camera and then I'll make a decision. I'd like to get an L lens. I love my 70-300L. It's great.
I'm just thinking ahead. 
It's always best to get the opinions of people who actually use this stuff on a daily basis rather than rely on some reviewer who may or may not care one way or the other. I trust Brian at TDP more so than DPR. The same can be said for D. Abbott.


Thanks again,

Macoose


----------



## BillB (Jun 24, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Being the squeaky wheel still doesn't make one a troll. That was wishful thinking
> ...



It seems to me that a troll is someone who makes a statement intended to provoke a response that he (or she) can attack, often in very unpleasant language, with liberal use of trigger words. It is the intent to provoke a response that defines a troll. Simply taking a position, even when counterproductive, repetitive and annoying is not trolling, unless there is an intent to provoke. It therefore follows that one is not trolling unless one knows that he or she is trolling. It also follows that refusing to respond to the provocation is often the best idea, if only to spite the troll.


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 24, 2017)

BillB said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



It seems clear to me that a person who continues "Simply taking a position, even when counterproductive, repetitive and annoying," after being given hints, corrections, etc. either knows or very much should know that they are provoking a response and, therefore, knows they're trolling. The exception being "the revolutionary" I mentioned above. There are different degrees of intent, and different degrees of trolling. Not all trolls start as trolls.



> It also follows that refusing to respond to the provocation is often the best idea, if only to spite the troll.



You'd think so...and I thought so until I ran across a few reports of studies that challenge that. I don't have them at hand or I'd post links.


----------



## Zv (Jun 24, 2017)

I like how this thread is analyzing the mindset of trolls and trolling behavior, trying to figure out the definition of a troll and why they do the things they do. You could make a decent podcast out of this!


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2017)

Sometimes you can learn a lot from a troll. For instance, I have recently learned that the 6D2 is a "piece of s--t"... that it does not have 4K video or dual card slots, that only an idiot will buy one, and that I should sell off all my Canon glass and spare body, flashes, batteries, etc and convert to Nikon because apparently that would be cheaper than upgrading to a used 5D3.

Now that I know all this, when I get my 6D2 and go take nice pictures, despite now knowing how impossible that will be, it will mean that I am "special".... and in a good sort of way.....


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 25, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Sometimes you can learn a lot from a troll. For instance, I have recently learned that the 6D2 is a "piece of s--t"... that it does not have 4K video or dual card slots, that only an idiot will buy one, and that I should sell off all my Canon glass and spare body, flashes, batteries, etc and convert to Nikon because apparently that would be cheaper than upgrading to a used 5D3.
> 
> Now that I know all this, when I get my 6D2 and go take nice pictures, despite now knowing how impossible that will be, it will mean that I am "special".... and in a good sort of way.....



Interesting how you bring the topic back to the 6D2.  Remember the threads on the 6D? One major complaint was that it HAD wifi. I actually started to do remote shooting and somehow lost interest because it was clunky and I was on the edge of its range. Now I'm too cheap to buy the 1DX2 unit which I presume would be infinitely better.

Jack


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes you can learn a lot from a troll. For instance, I have recently learned that the 6D2 is a "piece of s--t"... that it does not have 4K video or dual card slots, that only an idiot will buy one, and that I should sell off all my Canon glass and spare body, flashes, batteries, etc and convert to Nikon because apparently that would be cheaper than upgrading to a used 5D3.
> ...


I think that this camera will be the best "bang-for-the-buck" in the Canon stable.... As good as you can get before the prices start to skyrocket.

WiFi control (at least so far) has been in it's infancy. Obviously, we will not know what the 6D2 version is like until it gets released, but if can turn your phone into the back screen, buttons, and knobs (and a tablet version with more real estate) and also set the camera to auto-transfer files to another device, they will be getting a lot closer to the needs of the remote shooter....

As far as range goes, I have a high gain antenna on my home router....it really extends the range!


----------



## jd7 (Jun 25, 2017)

Act444 said:


> The 24-70 also has the least amount of distortion (at 24mm) of the three. A big deal if shooting buildings, etc. However, the 24-105L (version I at least) is the better performer in the 50-70mm range.



Well, LensRentals puts the 24-70/4L IS a little in front of the of the 24-105/4L IS at 70mm
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/canon-24-70-f4-is-resolution-tests/

As for 50mm, LensRentals does say the 24-70/4L IS is at its weakest at 50mm, where its MTF50 drops to 875 centre and 700 average. 

I haven't been able to find directly comparable results for the 24-105/f4L IS at 50mm, but if you look at these results for the 24-105/f4L IS at 50mm (which were run on LensRentals' old Imatest setup)
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/03/a-24-105-comparison/
the centre and average MTF50 were about the same at 50mm as at 24mm. So, if you look at the 24-105/f4L IS MTF50 results at 24 mm in the first post and assume they would be about the same at 50 mm, you would expect the 24-105/f4L IS to be getting about 890 centre and 730 average on the new test setup, versus the 24-70/4L IS at 875 centre and 700 average, giving a slight advantage to the 24-105/f4L IS. I'm not sure that difference is big enough to notice in practice though.

LensRentals' results for the 24-105/4L IS II show the 24-70/4L IS a little in front at 24mm and at 70mm too (no 50mm results though).
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/canon-24-105-f4-is-mk-ii-mtf-results/

I certainly get the attraction of the extra focal length of the 24-105 lenses, but from a resolution point of view it seems the 24-70/4L IS at its weakest point (50mm) is still about the same as the 24-105/4L IS at its strongest point in its zoom range. In the end though, if I was buying now, I think I'd be more influenced by other features (such as size, weight, focal length range v macro, how important distortion (esp at 24mm) is to me, etc) than any difference in sharpness.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 25, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> It is not OK to accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a shill, stupid, sheep, or similar. (I'm not saying you have...)



_I am..._

From Transpo1:



> I find it funny that some photography folks on this site are so threatened by a demanding and vocal video crowd that they themselves can't STFU about it. It's not just about photos anymore and Canon themselves started that trend with the 5DII- that's why the video folks are so vocal. So get over it and/or take your own advice





> As always, I'm on here fighting the losing battle to open your minds. Unfortunately, the conservative CanonFanboy mindset cannot at this time comprehend the future of video and stills hybrid shooting.





> Maybe us 4K folks just have higher standards than you guys. We understand you'll take everything Canon gives you and like it, but we tend to think a little bit differently.





> aybe us 4K folks just have higher standards than you guys. We understand you'll take everything Canon gives you and like it, but we tend to think a little bit differently.





> This is Canon blatantly "protecting" their higher-end cameras. It would cost very little R&D to implement 4K in the 6DII.
> 
> Now, cue Neuro with how Canon marketing is infallible. :





> +1 I'm looking forward to criticizing whatever way they implement and hobble the 4K capabilities of the camera





> Rrcphoto, weren't you supposed to eat some crow based on the feature set of the A9, which you said you were impressed with? Or was that only if Canon released this non-existent upgrade?





> One can always dream- but I'm afraid that with Canon, it's just a dream


(Continuous Canon-bashing _on a Canon forum_ is trolling too).

And these examples are just from the first couple of pages of his posting history...


----------



## foo (Jun 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> But if you've grown accustomed to the 18-135 reach (a 28.8-216mm FF equivalent), you likely will feel quite handcuffed with only a 24-70 zoom. I'm guessing, and I could be wrong, but a 24-105 will better suit you.



I went from the 18-135 on a crop body to the 24-70F4 on a FF and while I initially thought it was going to be limiting, I actually haven't found it to be so at all. Can't quite put into words why though..


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 25, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > It is not OK to accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a shill, stupid, sheep, or similar. (I'm not saying you have...)
> ...



Well, I wasn't specifically referring to him by using the term 'troll', yet he assumed that it applied to him. Seems he was correct.


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## ahsanford (Jun 25, 2017)

Macoose said:


> I trust Brian at TDP more so than DPR. The same can be said for D. Abbott.



You are wise for thinking that. PhotoZone and LensTip also have a lot of useful data to consider. However, avoid DXO like the plague when it comes to lens reviews.

LensRentals.com is also your best friend if you are stumped choosing between two lenses. Renting both lenses for a weekend of real-use-case shooting will almost always settle the matter for you. You'll appreciate things other than 'horsepower specs' of sharpness / FL range / what the max aperture is / if it has IS. A good weekend rental will tell you:


How quickly / accurately / consistently it focuses, especially with large aperture primes
If it has an annoying hood attachment, or if reversing the hood blocks any lens switches or buttons
If it's overly heavy or cumbersome to carry, it's its awkwardly unbalanced on your chosen body, if you need to shoot with monopod perhaps, etc.
If you shoot with a teleconverter, you can not only see the output of using it (which TDP posts as well), but you also get a feel for what the AF experience with the teleconverter will be like
What's up with any weird photographic minutiae that might not be at the top of the normal reviewers' lists but might be a really big deal for you: coma, focus shift, AF or IS noise during video recording, etc.
How easy third party AF calibration is with Sigma and Tamron glass (if you are considering a recent lens from them that's f/2.8 or quicker, I'd 100% get the dock to try out)

I cannot recommend renting highly enough if there is any doubt in your mind. 

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 25, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> It seems clear to me that a person who continues "Simply taking a position, even when counterproductive, repetitive and annoying," after being given hints, corrections, etc. either knows or very much should know that they are provoking a response and, therefore, knows they're trolling. The exception being "the revolutionary" I mentioned above. There are different degrees of intent, and different degrees of trolling. Not all trolls start as trolls.



I am certainly not a troll, _but I sure am a broken record on what I'd like to see:_


Please update the 50 f/1.4 USM and keep it small
No fast USM lenses for EF-M = I will never buy an EF-M rig
Healthcare Spot metering at any AF point is a human right fair expectation for a rig that costs north of $2000

But I don't tantrum about it, imply those who disagree are bad people / unintelligent, etc., and I certainly post helpful / positive / chatty / fuel the discussion sort of content when I am not going to those wells above.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 25, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Sometimes you can learn a lot from a troll. For instance, I have recently learned that the 6D2 is a "piece of s--t"... that it does not have 4K video or dual card slots, that only an idiot will buy one, and that I should sell off all my Canon glass and spare body, flashes, batteries, etc and convert to Nikon because apparently that would be cheaper than upgrading to a used 5D3.
> 
> Now that I know all this, when I get my 6D2 and go take nice pictures, despite now knowing how impossible that will be, it will mean that I am "special".... and in a good sort of way.....



I am so mad they took away the like button right now, Don. Spot on.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 25, 2017)

jd7 said:


> I certainly get the attraction of the extra focal length of the 24-105 lenses, but from a resolution point of view it seems the 24-70/4L IS at its weakest point (50mm) is still about the same as the 24-105/4L IS at its strongest point in its zoom range. In the end though, if I was buying now, I think I'd be more influenced by other features (such as size, weight, focal length range v macro, how important distortion (esp at 24mm) is to me, etc) than any difference in sharpness.



I think the tradeoff is pretty simple:

24-70 (f/4) generally is a sharper instrument (especially at the two ends 24 and 70, where I'm guessing a zoom is used most), is lighter, takes up less space in your bag and has a macro mode.

24-105 has reach, which might let you leave a longer lens at home.

As a rough peg, in this forum at least, there must be a good 2-3x the number of 24-105 devotees than the 24-70 f/4. Reach, it would appear, is more useful/popular than a sharpness bump and the (quite wonderful IMHO) macro mode. Also, putting a 24-105L in a jillion 5D2, 5D3, and 6D kits didn't hurt its popularity -- I'm guessing it's the first L lens a lot of people have ever used, and in many cases, it's probably the most widely used.

I don't think you can go wrong with either, in fairness. 

- A

P.S. Nikon has a 24-120 f/4 VR, and I believe it has a similar following. Optically, it's a bigger step behind the 24-70 than with the Canon pair we've been discussing, but some folks tenaciously cling to their 24-120s for reach reasons.


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 25, 2017)

Every experience in life is a learning experience. It's just a matter of degree. I would not purposely submit myself to many experiences when the time is essentially wasted relative to the payback and that's why I almost exited from CR when the 7D2 nonsense was in full swing and Dilbert was arguing against practically every post.

I see no solution other than the sane ones simply ignoring that which is over the top. Ignore the nonsense, and it's no fun for them. Also no fun those who like to argue, which might explain why they are not ignored. 

I have my most loved 6D for sale at this moment and am anticipating replacing it with, you guessed it. No fool like an old fool. 

Jack


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> jd7 said:
> 
> 
> > I certainly get the attraction of the extra focal length of the 24-105 lenses, but from a resolution point of view it seems the 24-70/4L IS at its weakest point (50mm) is still about the same as the 24-105/4L IS at its strongest point in its zoom range. In the end though, if I was buying now, I think I'd be more influenced by other features (such as size, weight, focal length range v macro, how important distortion (esp at 24mm) is to me, etc) than any difference in sharpness.
> ...



I opted for the 24-70 and feel it was the best choice for me but also acknowledge that occasionally 105 would eliminate the need to have the 70-200 handy. The macro is not 100mm quality but really nice to have especially for someone who is simply recording something they saw that was personally interesting. 6D with 24-70 F4 is a nice walk around size/weight. The 24-105 had a large following before the newer lens so of course the faithful supported it and criticized the 24-70; I read all the knocks and today have no regrets.

Jack


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I am certainly not a troll, _but I sure am a broken record on what I'd like to see:_
> 
> 
> Please update the 50 f/1.4 USM and keep it small
> ...



The bolded bit makes all the difference...


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 25, 2017)

It's also fascinating how the trolls always have _something_.

First it was DR. Now it's 4k. Next it'll be... ? But there's always something that Canon doesn't do that means their products suck, are crippled and nerfed, and Canon is ******* and losing to Sony, Nikon, Fuji, and Pana, even though they aren't.


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## ahsanford (Jun 25, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> It's also fascinating how the trolls always have _something_.
> 
> First it was DR. Now it's 4k. Next it'll be... ?



IBIS and Eye AF should now top the list, but in the near future it will be 6K and disproportionately higher fps. Sony is dramatically overspec'ing their fps vs the market right now: 12 fps in the D810/5D space, 20 fps in the D5/1DX space, etc. 

- A


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 25, 2017)

I've been playing with my 5D MK III and solar filter this morning, and wondering if the DPAF of a 6D II or 80D would do better. I can AF on the sun with a 1.4 TC on my 100-400, but the image is not as sharp as I'd like. I was pretty sloppy with shutter speed, and setting it on my wooden deck, so that may be the issue. I was not able to do a good job of MF, I can't use the 5 or 10 X on the LCD, one slip and I'm looking directly at the sun and go blind for a few seconds, so I'm using my Iphone remotely, but I cannot do 5X with the gadget I use. It will focus stack, so I'll play with that. It does only a fair job of focusing with 1.4 TC in live view but I'm two stops down or f/16.

I saw a employee deal for the 80D with kit lens for $766 plus tax this morning, and wondered if that would do. But, additional $300 for GPS, and I'm getting closer to a 6D MK II price and thats for a refurb camera. I'd also have to purchase a wider lens like a 16-35mmL to get equivalent AOV to a FF with my 24-70. The 6D MK II is looking better for a 2nd body as I look at the whole package. So, maybe I should be looking at 6D II versus 5D MK IV at 3K. I think I'll try the 80D and 5D MK IV out at my local camera store.


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## unfocused (Jun 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > It's also fascinating how the trolls always have _something_.
> ...



Autofocus generally. There is some legitimacy to the issue, because Canon could improve it's autofocus. But, the other side of the coin is that it is perfect for internet whiners because until any fool can have a 100% keeper rate, autofocus will never be good enough.


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 25, 2017)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



The problem with AF for internet bragging is it's all about spec sheets - you can talk about number of points, or frame coverage, but hit rate is almost impossible to objectively compare. And the trolls are all about the identifiable, quantifiable differences.


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## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2017)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...


As said before, If your standards are low enough, every shot can be a keeper.....


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 25, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> As said before, If your standards are low enough, every shot can be a keeper.....



Hey, you found one of my first shots with my old Powershot A90! 8)


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## Macoose (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Macoose said:
> 
> 
> > I trust Brian at TDP more so than DPR. The same can be said for D. Abbott.
> ...






Thanks, 

I think I need to clarify the quote of mine you posted.
I was not trying to imply that D. Abbott's reviews are not trustworthy. I actually like Mr. Abbott's reviews and think he does a thorough presentation.

When I read my quote for the second time, I thought it could be misconstrued.
I hope no one took it wrong.

Macoose


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## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

Macoose said:


> I think I need to clarify the quote of mine you posted.
> I was not trying to imply that D. Abbott's reviews are not trustworthy. I actually like Mr. Abbott's reviews and think he does a thorough presentation.



No clarifier needed -- I didn't take your words the wrong way. Dustin's a regular poster here who does a splendid job, writes wonderfully thorough reviews and (best yet) fields questions from everyone here after he posts his work. 

- A


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 26, 2017)

Lovely shot Don! And a beautiful dog.  You see with Canon you can't go wrong. Now if only I could find my glasses ...

Jack


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## hne (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > It's also fascinating how the trolls always have _something_.
> ...



Canon had Eye AF between 1998-2007. They must have assumed it is not an important feature to keep, otherwise the 1D would definitely have inherited that from the EOS-3.

Jokes aside; when you've already figured out what's a face and what's not it is trivial to also figure out where the eyes are. I really can't see why Canon hasn't implemented this yet.


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## BillB (Jun 26, 2017)

hne said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



True enough. One question is whether a manufacturer will use this information to try to sell more cameras. Another question is whether it will be worth it for me to buy a camera that results. At the moment, the answer to the last question would seem to be no.


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## Mikehit (Jun 26, 2017)

Am I misunderstanding something - Canon had _eye controlled focus_ where tiny LEDs were used to recognise what the photographer was looking at, and this had mixed reliability according to some. But when you talk about 'recognising a face' you seem to be talking about face recognition and focus on the eye.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Am I misunderstanding something - Canon had _eye controlled focus_ where tiny LEDs were used to recognise what the photographer was looking at, and this had mixed reliability according to some. But when you talk about 'recognising a face' you seem to be talking about face recognition and focus on the eye.



Yes, you're missing something:



hne said:


> Jokes aside


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## PureClassA (Jun 26, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Am I misunderstanding something - Canon had _eye controlled focus_ where tiny LEDs were used to recognise what the photographer was looking at, and this had mixed reliability according to some. But when you talk about 'recognising a face' you seem to be talking about face recognition and focus on the eye.



Facial recognition from the AF tracking sensor is what, I believe, they are speaking of. My 1DX2 has this, as does a few other models if I'm not mistaken. The eye control thing was way back in the film days. The EOS Elan 7E. I still have one! Lol


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## jolyonralph (Jun 27, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> This is infuriating if true. Half my lenses are manual focus and all except one are f/2 or wider. I hope an aftermarket solution presents itself. I'm not going crop and I'm not buying a 1DX-II just to manual focus accurately.



Live View.

Or, if you don't like that, Sony A7 series with appropriate adaptors.


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## BillB (Jun 27, 2017)

jolyonralph said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > This is infuriating if true. Half my lenses are manual focus and all except one are f/2 or wider. I hope an aftermarket solution presents itself. I'm not going crop and I'm not buying a 1DX-II just to manual focus accurately.
> ...



Or continue to use the 6D. For the longer term, one solution would be to by another 6D as a backup/replacement. A new 6D isn't all that expensive, and it should hold it's value pretty well since Canon isn't making any lower priced FF cameras with swappable lenses.


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