# 42MP Sony sensor released in another camera... **and it's not a Nikon**



## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

Between this and the Sigma 20mm Art rumor, today is full of surprises:

http://photorumors.com/2015/10/14/sony-rx1r-ii-camera-with-42mp-full-frame-sensor-announced/

Looks like the original RX1/RX1R + the RX100 v4 pop-up EVF + that 42MP Sony hotness.

Fixed lens, of course, so this is a prestige-level toy for half the price of a Leica, but hey. When you are the only player in FF mirrorless (under $4k), you get to screw around with things like this.

- A


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## xps (Oct 14, 2015)

Expensive. 42 MP in such an small body. I think this is WR.

The variable low pass filter seems to be really innovative. 

http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/products/91ah/feature.html?contentsTop=1


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

xps said:


> Expensive. 42 MP in such an small body. I think this is WR.
> 
> The variable low pass filter seems to be really innovative.
> 
> http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/products/91ah/feature.html?contentsTop=1



WR = ?


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## xps (Oct 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Expensive. 42 MP in such an small body. I think this is WR.
> ...



world record


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

xps said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > xps said:
> ...



Sure, but this isn't truly 'new' design-wise. They did they same thing with the original 36MP a7R sensor in the RX1R. This is really just a refresh with that newer sensor.

- A


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## brad-man (Oct 14, 2015)

Anyone know what's up with that funky lens hood?


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

brad-man said:


> Anyone know what's up with that funky lens hood?



A lot of mirrorless hoods (and prior, old film rangefinder hoods) go this route. No idea why. I presume the windows are not in the FOV, but I'd tape those windows closed in a heartbeat. (Stray light is stray light, right?)

- A


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## HoodlessShooter (Oct 14, 2015)

brad-man said:


> Anyone know what's up with that funky lens hood?



It is a ventilated hood, these were popular on rangefinder cameras (Leica and others), because it allowed you to see through the hood and didn't block the viewfinder as much. The Fujifilm X100-series has the same type of hood. For a camera like the RX1 which has an EVF it is purely for the retro look.


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## abbaen (Oct 14, 2015)

brad-man said:


> Anyone know what's up with that funky lens hood?



Reminiscent of Leica lens hoods which have parts cut out of them sometimes too. Doesn't effect the way the hood blocks incoming light to the front element.


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

HoodlessShooter said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know what's up with that funky lens hood?
> ...



Right -- I always forget the framing for those are so nutty compared to what we get with a pentaprism (i.e. 'viewfinder TTL').

- A


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

I keep forgetting that the 36 MP Sony sensors in Nikons came out in Nikon bodies first, as the A7 platform was still in development.

With *this* gen, of course, Sony bodies got the sensor hotness first:

A7R II: June 10, 2015

RX1R II: October 15, 2015

Nikon D820/D850/D900/whatever: [Crickets]

I appreciate that you can't just design a camera body and slap in a sensor when it becomes available. I also appreciate that the Nikon is worth waiting for compared to the Sony -- the Nikon variant of these Sony sensors (D800/D800E/D810) are generally regarded as better top-to-bottom cameras for a host of reasons. 

But there comes a point that the new sensor hotness ain't so new and hot anymore. What happens if the Nikon D820/D850/D900/Dwhatever doesn't come out until a year after the A7R II?

- A


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Oct 14, 2015)

Wow! Now _there's_ an Image Making Machine!! 


I hope the trolls will not try to convince us that it can't meet their expectations since it has the wrong nameplate, or somesuch silliness.


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> Wow! Now _there's_ an Image Making Machine!!
> 
> I hope the trolls will not try to convince us that it can't meet their expectations since it has the wrong nameplate, or somesuch silliness.



It's a lot of high-end tech, but a fixed lens camera for $3,295? That's a niche product, regardless of whatever IQ it can reel in.

- A


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

*Sony Introduces RX1R II Camera with 42.4 MP Full-Frame Image Sensor*

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7600509041/sony-announces-rx1r-ii-full-frame-compact-camera

_"Unlike the focal plane shutter common to interchangeable lens cameras, RX1R II utilizes an in-lens shutter, allowing *1/2000 sec flash synch speed*."_

We're discussing the camera itself on another thread, but I felt this single spec was worth discussing.

I'm not familiar with this, but I am all too familiar with running into my 5D3's pedestrian sync speed limits. 

Does an in-lens shutter mean it's like a leaf shutter for MF lenses? Is that how they're pulling this off?

- A


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## Dylan777 (Oct 14, 2015)

I placed a pre-order for my wife. We used to own the version1 until we got broke in. 

With pop-up EVF and improved AF, can't really ask for more. I wish the a7 series has this type of body style and pop-up EVF. This is what mirrorless body style should be - not a7 II , not a7r II and not a7s II.


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## Sporgon (Oct 14, 2015)

*Re: 42MP Sony fixed lens rig --> 1/2000 flash sync speed!*

With HSS in speedlites I haven't given flash sync speed a thought for years.


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> This is what mirrorless body style should be - not a7 II , not a7r II and not a7s II.



Agree, but it depends on what you want:

For those who see mirrorless as a chance to do everything an SLR can, you get an A7.

For those who see mirrorless as a chance to get FF IQ in a tiny camera, you get this.

- A


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## Dylan777 (Oct 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > This is what mirrorless body style should be - not a7 II , not a7r II and not a7s II.
> ...



I do not see any issues holding a7, a7r and a7s body style. If Sony has added pop-up EVF to it, I think it even better. 

New a7 bodies are getting bigger and heavier. Both shutter and aperture dials are tiny and feel cheap. There is almost no point getting into mirrorless if they keep increase the body size.


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> There is almost no point getting into mirrorless if they keep increase the body size.



_*For you*_, you mean. That's not a categorical statement.

Many folks welcome mirrorless for other reasons -- EVFs like heads-up displays with added info (like real-time histo, focus-peaking, etc.), amplified EVF for low-light, no mirror-slap, wider spread of AF points, less mechanical components that could wear out or fail, etc.

I happen to agree with you -- just playing Devil's Advocate for those who compare their A7 rigs head-to-head against the D8X0 and 5D rigs. 

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 14, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> There is almost no point getting into mirrorless if they keep increase the body size.



I'd actually prefer my mirrorless be a little bigger (larger grip, larger batteries).

ahsanford mentioned some of the advantages which I'll echo: silent shutter, practically limitless possibilities for what to display in the VF, manual focus magnification in the VF, the ability to use sonnar-type wide angle lenses etc.

The amplified VF for dark shooting is difficult since it gets so noisy (at least with mine), but it makes possible what I could not do with OVF. 

etc.


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## ahsanford (Oct 14, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> The amplified VF for dark shooting is difficult since it gets so noisy (at least with mine), but it makes possible what I could not do with OVF.



That's the key bit. I've shot some concerts where AF confirmation itself was hard on my 5D3, but even when it did confirm I had no idea what it actually locked onto. I strongly prefer an OVF, but this is one instance where an amplified EVF excels (noisy or not).

- A


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## Luds34 (Oct 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> ChristopherMarkPerez said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! Now _there's_ an Image Making Machine!!
> ...



100% agree. I struggle with the idea of an X100T because it is a fixed lens system that will go out of date someday and that's just over a grand. But $3k+ is at a whole other level.

Looks pretty stunning though. 35mm full frame in the small of a package, with an EVF? If money were no object I'd say sign me up.


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## quod (Oct 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> WR = ?


Wicked rad! And it is.


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## Mr Bean (Oct 14, 2015)

*Re: 42MP Sony fixed lens rig --> 1/2000 flash sync speed!*



Sporgon said:


> With HSS in speedlites I haven't given flash sync speed a thought for years.


+1. Works fine for me.



ahsanford said:


> Does an in-lens shutter mean it's like a leaf shutter for MF lenses? Is that how they're pulling this off?


I'm assuming that's the case.


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## Dylan777 (Oct 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > There is almost no point getting into mirrorless if they keep increase the body size.
> ...



The features you mentioned are great additional benefits in mirrorless. However, let's not forget the why the mirrorless was introduced, the core fundamental of mirrorless.


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## Dylan777 (Oct 14, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > There is almost no point getting into mirrorless if they keep increase the body size.
> ...



As owner of RX1, a7, a7r, a7s and a7rii I'm well aware the features you mentioned. Latest A7 bodies have increased in size and weight. I didn't see the battery size or life increased much.


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## NancyP (Oct 14, 2015)

Sounds like this is a cheap Leica! For a certain type of photographer, it's a great-sounding camera.


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## unfocused (Oct 14, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > It's a lot of high-end tech, but a fixed lens camera for $3,295? That's a niche product, regardless of whatever IQ it can reel in.
> ...



Agreed. Clearly this is a camera aimed squarely at the top 1% of earners. That's not me, nor will it ever be. But, then, if I were going for a fixed lens camera, a 35mm lens would not be the one I'd choose.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 14, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> As owner of RX1, a7, a7r, a7s and a7rii I'm well aware the features you mentioned. Latest A7 bodies have increased in size and weight. *I didn't see the battery size or life increased much.*



Yah, at all. It's the same battery, sadly. I'm just replying to your post, the direct implication of which is that the overwhelming (since without it there is "no point" to getting one) advantage of mirrorless is decreased size relative to an equivalent SLR, and I disagree. I don't think smaller camera bodies are necessarily advantageous or desirable. But it's a personal call.


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## drjlo (Oct 15, 2015)

Surprised no one is commenting on one very nice feature:

world’s first optical variable low pass filter that can be set to “off”, “standard” or “high”

So it's like getting a RX1 and RX1R all in one package 8)


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## Dylan777 (Oct 15, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > As owner of RX1, a7, a7r, a7s and a7rii I'm well aware the features you mentioned. Latest A7 bodies have increased in size and weight. *I didn't see the battery size or life increased much.*
> ...



Agree. 

Another nice feature from the RX1 is aperture ring. For some reason, I always enjoy changing the apertures at lens location.


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## quod (Oct 15, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> 100% agree. I struggle with the idea of an X100T because it is a fixed lens system that will go out of date someday and that's just over a grand. But $3k+ is at a whole other level.


One advantage of the Fuji is that you can purchase conversion lenses that converts the 35mm fixed lens to a 28mm (WCL-X100) or 50mm (TCL-X100) with no loss of aperture. You can get very clean used copies of the converter lenses on ebay for about $200 USD. I don't know well Sony's version of HSS works, but the built-in ND filter and leaf shutter are nice touches on my X100S.


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## risc32 (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: 42MP Sony fixed lens rig --> 1/2000 flash sync speed!*

HSS works ok, but it's no real replacement for a faster shutter. 

i think my crown graphic from the 40's is as fast as my 5dmk3. it turns on and off faster also


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## pwp (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: 42MP Sony fixed lens rig --> 1/2000 flash sync speed!*



Sporgon said:


> With HSS in speedlites I haven't given flash sync speed a thought for years.


Speedlight HSS is fantastic and frequently saves the day for me, but the power-loss is obviously significant. 
Wouldn't a true 1/2000 flash sync be totally useful? 

-pw


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## Sporgon (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: 42MP Sony fixed lens rig --> 1/2000 flash sync speed!*



pwp said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > With HSS in speedlites I haven't given flash sync speed a thought for years.
> ...



I don't think it would be 'totally useful' to me. I've been able to forget about power loss: it your talking about high sync speeds your talking about bright ambient and so flash for fill. However I do use the largest Canon Speedlites.


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## scyrene (Oct 15, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> ahsanford said:
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> > Dylan777 said:
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If the future is truly mirrorless as some say (let's wait and see but anyway), then some of us will need one in a DSLR-sized body for the ergonomics with big lenses.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: 42MP Sony fixed lens rig --> 1/2000 flash sync speed!*

Higher sync-speed would be very welcome on the 5D4--especially for my Buff Einsteins and for avoiding HSS over 1/200 (an annoyance of the 5D3).


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## AcutancePhotography (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: Sony Introduces RX1R II Camera with 42.4 MP Full-Frame Image Sensor*

Nice, but yikes that price!!

Wish I could afford one. It looks like a nice camera.


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## deleteme (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: 42MP Sony fixed lens rig --> 1/2000 flash sync speed!*

A leaf shutter is absolutely superior to HSS.

The power loss from HSS is significant and really makes a difference in the usual situation where it is needed: bright sun.
Yesterday I photographed an event with my 5DmkIIIs and a Panasonic FZ1000. 
In bright sun the power of my 580EXII dropped off rapidly after about 6ft. I was able to shoot at the same distance with 1/8 power on the FZ1000 because I could shoot at 1/500 at f6.3. Later I was able to shoot group at about 25 feet that were under a tent and perfectly balance exposure with 1/2 power.

At no time was I apprehensive about the flash to fill the scene at any distance and at even smaller apertures. Moreover I was able to shoot at very high frame rates when the subject was closer as the power setting was so low.

So, yes HSS works. But no, it is no substitute for the huge flexibility of a leaf shutter. And I don't even want to discuss the miserable kludge of ND filters.


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## Ladislav (Oct 15, 2015)

I would love to have one. FF sensor + my favorite 35mm focal length + RAW in small body I can take with me even when I'm not considering taking my photo bag with DSLR would be amazing. But not for $3.3k - I will have to wait few years before compacts with such features get into "affordable" category.


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## ahsanford (Oct 15, 2015)

Ladislav said:


> I would love to have one. FF sensor + my favorite 35mm focal length + RAW in small body I can take with me even when I'm not considering taking my photo bag with DSLR would be amazing. But not for $3.3k - I will have to wait few years before compacts with such features get into "affordable" category.



As there is no lens pullthrough for products like this, fixed lens FF mirrorless will not get affordable until there is competition. Right now there is just this camera and... the Leica Q, I believe. Sony is tenting the price up because there are no realistic and affordable alternatives.

Keep in mind that they could do the same in interchangeable lens FF mirrorless (i.e. the A7 brand), as only the crazy pricey Leica M stuff does the same. But clearly Sony considers Canon/Nikon FF SLR as direct competition and wants to flip those users, get them to buy lenses, etc. So the A7 prices (other than those with that latest 42 MP sensor) are competitive.

The one wildcard with the R1XR II is, of course, that lens. We really don't know how much it costs by itself. I'm guessing it isn't cheap to build b/c of that leaf shutter setup and the fact that volumes must be crazy low (as it only works on these fixed lens rigs).

- A


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## e_honda (Oct 15, 2015)

quod said:


> One advantage of the Fuji is that you can purchase conversion lenses that converts the 35mm fixed lens to a 28mm (WCL-X100) or 50mm (TCL-X100) with no loss of aperture. You can get very clean used copies of the converter lenses on ebay for about $200 USD. I don't know well Sony's version of HSS works, but the built-in ND filter and leaf shutter are nice touches on my X100S.



I agree. I was wondering why the RX1 never got the same series of converters that the Fuji "system" has always had.

Probably would've bought an RX1 last year if they had such a conversion system.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm surprised that we are not seeing the new sensors in other products. Sony claims to want to take over the sensor business, but, if they don't or can't sell the sensors, that won't happen. They are setting up their sensor business as a separate entity, so the Sony camera division should be treated as just another buyer with out any exclusive access. If they don't operate that way, they will not reach their goal.


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## Luds34 (Oct 15, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Luds34 said:
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> 
> > ahsanford said:
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Yep, definitely a bit of a niche product for those with a lot of extra disposable income to buy the latest greatest toys. Like you, I cannot justify such a purchase.


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## Luds34 (Oct 15, 2015)

quod said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > 100% agree. I struggle with the idea of an X100T because it is a fixed lens system that will go out of date someday and that's just over a grand. But $3k+ is at a whole other level.
> ...



I never really got the lens modifiers. At that point, if you are going to mess around with swapping those on and off, why are you using a fixed lens to begin with? Shouldn't you have gone with an X-T1, X-E2, etc?

Yes, I've been keeping an eye on the Fuji stuff for a while and the built in ND filter and leaf shutter I feel is what takes the X100 series to that next (cult like) level of love from those who shoot them.

Put me in the camp of HSS as a less then ideal solution. I'd even settle for 1/500th sync speed. But definitely something along the lines of 1/1000 or 1/2000 would be golden!


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## Adelino (Oct 15, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Much agreed I see many benefits from mirrorless but I am not interested in size, I'd rather have larger battery and more physical contols, buttons and knobs. There is room for each, I think the future of cameras will come down to ergonomics for a particular purpose, as small as possible and as easy as operate as possible, with variations. At a certain point IQ, high ISO performance, speed etc will be topped out and the surviving camera makers will differentiate on packaging.


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## quod (Oct 16, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> I never really got the lens modifiers. At that point, if you are going to mess around with swapping those on and off, why are you using a fixed lens to begin with? Shouldn't you have gone with an X-T1, X-E2, etc?


The 28mm is super tiny in size and very useful when you want to go wider and cannot move backwards. The IQ is on par with the native 35mm, which is stellar. The 50mm is bigger and not as sharp as the 28mm.



Luds34 said:


> Put me in the camp of HSS as a less then ideal solution. I'd even settle for 1/500th sync speed. But definitely something along the lines of 1/1000 or 1/2000 would be golden!


The X100S can shoot up to 1/1600 at f/2+ (or 1/2000 at f/4+) with no degradation of flash power like HSS.


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## Luds34 (Oct 16, 2015)

quod said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > I never really got the lens modifiers. At that point, if you are going to mess around with swapping those on and off, why are you using a fixed lens to begin with? Shouldn't you have gone with an X-T1, X-E2, etc?
> ...



Yes, sorry I should have been more explicit. That is an obvious advantage of the leaf shutter. Again, very familiar with the X100 line and what it brings to the table. I was talking the other 90 some percent of the other ILC systems out there, like our traditional DSLRs. I mean geez, my 6D is 1/180. Doesn't take too much light outdoors to blow that away.


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## sdsr (Oct 16, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
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Nor I (nor would I want a fixed focal length camera in the first place). But more than a few people say that 35mm is their preferred focal length. For them, and if the lens is as good as it's reputation, it's not *that* expensive - for the price of an a7rII you get, as well, what would otherwise be an expensive 35mm lens. Too bad the camera doesn't seem to have IBIS.


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## sdsr (Oct 16, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> The features you mentioned are great additional benefits in mirrorless. However, let's not forget the why the mirrorless was introduced, the core fundamental of mirrorless.



You have a point, of course (though if you really want small as well as versatility, m43 is perhaps a better solution), but sometimes unintended benefits are the best sort. Making MF easy through a viewfinder, allowing the use of a vast range of lenses via adapters, and making it easier to nail exposure (etc.) are far more important to me than small size, nice enough though that may be. As for your other comment about batteries, battery life is *worse* with the new a7 bodies thanks to IBIS, isn't it? (Doesn't matter much to me as I always carry spares, have a charger in my office, etc.)


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## bwud (Oct 18, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > The amplified VF for dark shooting is difficult since it gets so noisy (at least with mine), but it makes possible what I could not do with OVF.
> ...



It seems to depend on subject. I have shot some really dark stuff (underground room with practically no ambient, flashes without modeling lamps) with my A7R ii where I would have merely been guessing with OVF, but was able to zoom in and find the (excessively) noisy eye in the EVF. 

Last night/this morning, however, I was shooting stars. The EVF is useless - it is impossible to distinguish stars from noise. The LCD is better, but I had to painstakingly scroll around the screen, zooming in to look for what was obviously a star, when I could see hundreds with my eyes. Granted I was hamstringing myself with an f/4 lens while I had faster available, but regardless my 5D iii was much easier to focus with. 

ISO1250, f/4, 91seconds (a7r ii)


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## 9VIII (Oct 18, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> I keep forgetting that the 36 MP Sony sensors in Nikons came out in Nikon bodies first, as the A7 platform was still in development.
> 
> With *this* gen, of course, Sony bodies got the sensor hotness first:
> 
> ...



Rumor is part of the Exmor licensing agreement is that no-one other than Sony gets to use new sensors until six months after release.

So, they got their product out as early as possible without compromising the holiday season. If the rumors are true then January is going to be a busy month.


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