# Patent: Internal liquid cooling of camera body



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 18, 2022)

> Keith over at Northlight Images uncovered a pretty cool patent pertaining to cooling of camera bodies. A lot has been discussed about this topic over the last couple of years.
> This patent shows Canon using magnets to pump the liquid through the cooling tubes, which I would think, would make this type of active cooling silient, unlike internal cooling fans. This would also do a much better job of bringing the internal temperatures down that simply using copper heatsinks.
> Cooling of camera bodies is going to be an area a lot of resources are going to be poured into we think. Especially with consumer 8K, high-resolution and high-speed cameras becoming more common, and they’re only going to get faster and more capable in the future.
> 
> ...



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## BakaBokeh (Aug 18, 2022)

Cool


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 18, 2022)

BakaBokeh said:


> Cool


Pun intended?


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## Click (Aug 18, 2022)

Cool cooling system.


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 18, 2022)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Pun intended?


Intended, and appropriate.

Camera cooling is the future as the tech advances. A liquid cooled camera is a much more elegant solution than a fan. Some say the fan on the R5C doesn't add a lot. I can see what they mean as it does feel the same in hand, but the added bulk is noticeable. And it's a much tighter fit in some of my camera bags. 

More importantly, cooling is going to be critical for the higher resolution/higher framerate capturing modes. What I'm most hopeful for, are codecs with a much more aggressive form of compression, which adds more processing and heat, so we can get file sizes down. I've also noticed tests that show that the R5C's image is better than the R5 especially at higher ISO. I suspect the cooling has to do with that. Makes sense since heat adds noise.


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## bergstrom (Aug 18, 2022)

will this puta drain on battery, would we then need higher capacity battery?


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## Tickover (Aug 18, 2022)

Hopefully in the R5 II in about two years. I was also looking at the patent image looking for a global shutter, again wishing.


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## keithcooper (Aug 18, 2022)

Tickover said:


> Hopefully in the R5 II in about two years. I was also looking at the patent image looking for a global shutter, again wishing.


In which case you need to look at the patents covering aspects of sensor design and manufacture - these regulalry cover shutter, readout and related aspects
Remeber anything not related to the primary idea of the patent is just padding to show examples of the main idea in use.
There have been a steady stream of shutter/readout related ones over recent years, but the patents are too complex and specific for me to quickly summarise in posts.


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## entoman (Aug 18, 2022)

Tickover said:


> Hopefully in the R5 II in about two years. I was also looking at the patent image looking for a global shutter, again wishing.


More likely in the R5C Mkiii or the R1 Mkii, in about 7 years methinks.


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## David - Sydney (Aug 19, 2022)

BakaBokeh said:


> More importantly, cooling is going to be critical for the higher resolution/higher framerate capturing modes. What I'm most hopeful for, are codecs with a much more aggressive form of compression, which adds more processing and heat, so we can get file sizes down. I've also noticed tests that show that the R5C's image is better than the R5 especially at higher ISO. I suspect the cooling has to do with that. Makes sense since heat adds noise.


I think that processor efficiency/nm line width will also play a big part. Sony has shown that their high compression codecs for 8K can still be done in a smaller body than the R5/c and also have longer CIPA battery life even though the battery capacity isn't much different. 
In theory, more processor effort will produce more heat (apples to apples) but this could be offset by the non-use of the CFe card which is a big heat generator in itself


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## john1970 (Aug 19, 2022)

I wonder how robust these active cooling systems will be. A copper heatsink is passive and in theory can last a decade. I am not so certain on an active cooling system. Personally, I hope the R1 does NOT have an active cooling system. Maybe this cooling system will be reserved for Cinema series?


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## Ozarker (Aug 19, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> will this puta drain on battery, would we then need higher capacity battery?


I don't think so. It states that magnets are used to move the liquid through the tubes. I'd imagine these to be permanent magnets, rather that an electromagnetic design. Neodymium magnets, maybe? It could be that the liquid viscosity changes in the hotter part of the loop too, which might influence the liquid in the magnetic field. *Just me making an uninformed guess. I've forgotten a large part of my physics and magnetism training.* Again, just my guess.


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## David Hull (Aug 19, 2022)

I wonder is we'll be able to get it with a transparent case, continuously variable LED lighting and glow in the dark coolent?


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## David Hull (Aug 19, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> I don't think so. It states that magnets are used to move the liquid through the tubes. I'd imagine these to be permanent magnets, rather that an electromagnetic design. Neodymium magnets, maybe? It could be that the liquid viscosity changes in the hotter part of the loop too, which might influence the liquid in the magnetic field. *Just me making an uninformed guess. I've forgotten a large part of my physics and magnetism training.* Again, just my guess.


That sounds like the "Magneto-Hydrodynamic" drive from the Red October


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## Ozarker (Aug 19, 2022)

David Hull said:


> I wonder is we'll be able to get it with a transparent case, continuously variable LED lighting and glow in the dark coolent?


Only if it also responds to beats.


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## Robolon (Aug 19, 2022)

Honestly, I don't think liquid cooling is the best solution in an application like this.
Vapor pipes might be more useful in this application, because these don't require moving parts and as far as I remember, they can actually transfer more heat than pumped liquid cooling.
Vapor pipes are also a fully passive cooling solution, so they won't impact battery life.


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## bergstrom (Aug 19, 2022)

They could also just make the bodies slightly bigger to let the heat disspiate. 5Diii and 6Dii never overheated.


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## Del Paso (Aug 19, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> will this puta drain on battery, would we then need higher capacity battery?


I guess even a water-cooled battery whose cooling system will be powered with a second (air-cooled?) battery 
Unless Canon prefer to use a portable 2 Kw. Honda 4 stroke power generator.


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## dj1001 (Aug 20, 2022)

I dont think that is depicting liquid cooling, I think those are heat pipes. True liquid cooling wouldnt make any sense from a cost, reliability, and performance aspect. Small heatpipes and heatsink fins are already widely used in cameras.


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## Juangrande (Aug 20, 2022)

Tickover said:


> Hopefully in the R5 II in about two years. I was also looking at the patent image looking for a global shutter, again wishing.


Me too but probably for different reasons as I’m not a videographer. I want a global shutter for flash photography, specifically balancing ambient light with flash at high shutter speeds without HSS, HS, or ND filters. A global shutter would also allow smaller flash units in location because you wouldn’t need to over compensate on flash power for HSS or ND filters. You could get away with speed lights or something like the A2’s where you would need 250/500w now.


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## LogicExtremist (Aug 21, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> I don't think so. It states that magnets are used to move the liquid through the tubes. I'd imagine these to be permanent magnets, rather that an electromagnetic design. Neodymium magnets, maybe? It could be that the liquid viscosity changes in the hotter part of the loop too, which might influence the liquid in the magnetic field. *Just me making an uninformed guess. I've forgotten a large part of my physics and magnetism training.* Again, just my guess.


The magnets would be permanent magnets inside the cooling system, the away to get them to rotate and pump cooling fluid would be with electromagnets on the outside, which would need constant power to drive them when the cooling system is active.


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## LogicExtremist (Aug 21, 2022)

Camera cooling, the topic that keeps on giving! 

A cooling system for a Canon camera, why would they ever need that? According to all the technical experts on camera forums a few years ago, the R5 and R6 did not overheat, internet trolls were just making up stories. The release of the videocentric R5C with a cooling fan was just a random, unplanned camera body release that had nothing remotely to do to overheating issues. Apparently Canon cameras also never have hardware faults or buggy firmware releases, and the issues that appear that way are always just user error according the unquestionable expertise of people posting on the DPR forum. 

Then again, they could just be full of it, and modern cameras really can overheat. Hmm, I wonder which it is?


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## AlanF (Aug 21, 2022)

LogicExtremist said:


> Camera cooling, the topic that keeps on giving!
> 
> A cooling system for a Canon camera, why would they ever need that? According to all the technical experts on camera forums a few years ago, the R5 and R6 did not overheat, internet trolls were just making up stories. The release of the videocentric R5C with a cooling fan was just a random, unplanned camera body release that had nothing remotely to do to overheating issues. Apparently Canon cameras also never have hardware faults or buggy firmware releases, and the issues that appear that way are always just user error according the unquestionable expertise of people posting on the DPR forum.
> 
> Then again, they could just be full of it, and modern cameras really can overheat. Hmm, I wonder which it is?


In the deep winter or travelling to the poles, you need a camera to keep your hands warm and defrost your glasses when you raise the camera to your eye. In heat waves, you need one to cool you down, especially your brow, hence Canon is now catering for both.


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## dirtyvu (Aug 26, 2022)

they already use this kind of tech in gaming consoles since the Xbox 360 days. intel and amd also use the same tech.


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## kaihp (Aug 26, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> will this puta drain on battery, would we then need higher capacity battery?


The patent states that the liquid is magnetic and there is a "magnetic field generator", so in my opinio: yes. It will require energy to pump the heat away.



SwissFrank said:


> About 2-3 years ago Canon patented a lens with two charge wells per pixel that could switch between accumulating in bucket A and B across the shutter instantly.


I think you meant _camera sensor_, not _lens_, with two charge wells.


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## LogicExtremist (Aug 26, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> Only if it also responds to beats.


Does shutter shock count?


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## LogicExtremist (Aug 26, 2022)

dirtyvu said:


> they already use this kind of tech in gaming consoles since the Xbox 360 days. intel and amd also use the same tech.


But if Canon implements this technology with sufficient marketing hype, it instantly becomes revolutionary technology! 

Kind of like how APSC sensors were always rubbished as the 'poor cousin' of FF by many gear snobs on forums for decades, irrespective of the application, and now that the R7 has been released, you'd think that Canon just invented the idea of a crop sensor, and it's never been seen before 2022 - how mind-blowing for so many people is the idea that if you packed the same amount (or more) pixels into a smaller sensor than a full frame, you can get more pixels on the subject at the same distance, and that a crop sensor camera might make a useful second camera to a FF because it has different strengths and weaknesses, might be better at some applications, and is usually cheaper. Wow, mind blown!


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## masterpix (Aug 27, 2022)

I see only one issue with this solution, while the IBIS is active, there is no "hard contact" between the sensor (which is the part getting the hottest) to rest of the camera. there need to be a way to transfer the heat from the "moving parts" to the those which are not moving.


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