# Radio Triggering-- 600ex-rt + 430exii + ??????



## Tabor Warren Photography (Jun 14, 2013)

Hello all,

I have the 600ex-rt and 430ex ii and was wanting to begin using them for radio triggering. I shoot a 5Dii and 60D. 
BEST option: something fairly inexpensive, and capable of transmitting ~80ft
I've done a great deal of research online but have not yet found someone who knows what their talking about or can't help but only represent 'their brand' of XYZ.

Any thoughts?
-Tabor


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## Wildfire (Jun 14, 2013)

The 600EX-RT has a radio system built-in, but unfortunately it is not compatible with any older Canon flashes.

I highly recommend that you sell your 430EX II and use the money to buy another 600EX-RT -- that way you can control the remote flash (in both manual and ETTL modes, plus with High-speed sync capability) without buying any extra accessories.

You do have some alternatives, but they won't take advantage of your 600EX-RT's built-in radio:
Optical wireless -- Your 600EX-RT can still control the 430EX II optically, but you'll have reliability issues in bright sunlight and any situation where the slave can't see the master flash.
Manual radio -- You'll lose ETTL and HSS but there are now some very cheap reliable radio triggers out there. I recommend the Phottix Stratos II.
ETTL radio -- All the features provided by the 600EX-RT's built in radio... unfortunately, you'll have to pay a lot of money. I recommend the Phottix Odins but the set will run you $330. Yongnuo's YN-622s are $90 and might be better on your wallet.

But then you'll have to buy extra sets of batteries for your new radio triggers, and troubleshooting them on-location is a hassle. The easiest solution is to get another 600EX-RT and use the Canon RT system the way it was meant to be used.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 15, 2013)

Wildfire said:


> The 600EX-RT has a radio system built-in, but unfortunately it is not compatible with any older Canon flashes.
> 
> I highly recommend that you sell your 430EX II and use the money to buy another 600EX-RT -- that way you can control the remote flash (in both manual and ETTL modes, plus with High-speed sync capability) without buying any extra accessories.
> 
> ...



The problem with buying another 600 is it doesn't give you two remote radio flashes, one has to be on camera as a controller.

I'd get a cheap dumb radio trigger, the RF-603 is ideal, and get the 600 and 430 remte and see where I'd want to go from there.


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## jdramirez (Jun 15, 2013)

Flash is such a pain. In my 4 years of SLR experience, it is the one thing that hasn't come naturally.


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## PhotographAdventure (Jun 15, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> Wildfire said:
> 
> 
> > The 600EX-RT has a radio system built-in, but unfortunately it is not compatible with any older Canon flashes.
> ...



Yeah, if you buy another 600, then you really need to spend another $300 for the ST-E3-RT Speedlite Transmitter. Totally worth it though because it gives you full control. Any other trigger system and you may run into issues during a shoot. My pocket wizards worked okay, but every so often gave me inconsistent output during a shoot. With the new canon wireless, I haven't had problems.


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## eml58 (Jun 15, 2013)

Be aware that with the 5DMK II using the RT system of the EX600RT + STE3RT, you will not have HSS, and I believe you are reduced one stop to 1/100th max instead of the 1/200th you will get on the 1Dx/5DMK III.

And I agree with jdramirez, Flash can be a PIA.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 15, 2013)

Once you get the RT system, I'll never go back to PWs. I can't believe how much easier its made my job and you'll be using them for years, why limit yourself down the road? Ditch the 430II if your getting into flash.


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## eml58 (Jun 15, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Once you get the RT system, I'll never go back to PWs. I can't believe how much easier its made my job and you'll be using them for years, why limit yourself down the road? Ditch the 430II if your getting into flash.



Too true, Flash with the 580/430 was always "The Dark Side" for me, but as RLPHoto posted, the STE3RT/600RT makes the whole thing pretty straight forward, I've actually started taking the 600RT in the Bag all the time now, before I treated the 580 like a Black Widow. Unfortunately at the moment you will only get full use with the 1Dx & 5DMK III, but the 5DMK II will give you most of the abilities of this pairing.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 15, 2013)

eml58 said:


> Be aware that with the 5DMK II using the RT system of the EX600RT + STE3RT, you will not have HSS, and I believe you are reduced one stop to 1/100th max instead of the 1/200th you will get on the 1Dx/5DMK III.
> 
> And I agree with jdramirez, Flash can be a PIA.



Pre 2011 bodies do allow HSS, just not in ETTL metering mode, it works fine in Manual flash mode. The sync speed when on camera is as standard, when using wireless I have found the sync speed drops 1/3 rd stop, my 1/250 gets a very small shutter shadow, at 1/200 I am normally clear, even in multiple channel radio mode.

Whilst it would be very nice to be able to spend $800 of the OP's money on another 600 and an ST-E3-RT, I think that is bad advice when a set of RF-603's will give him twin flash radio, all be it in manual power only, for around $50. Sure he might grow into more kit, but most people would be better off getting an Einstein than multiple 600's.



eml58 said:


> Unfortunately at the moment you will only get full use with the 1Dx & 5DMK III, but the 5DMK II will give you most of the abilities of this pairing.



And the 6D and the EOS-M, they both give 100% RT system functionality too.


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## bardamu (Jun 15, 2013)

What about Pocket Wizards with the AC3 zone controller vs. 600EXs with ST-E3-RT? Wouldn't those give fairly similar functionality? I have 3 x 430EX ii + 1 x 600EX-RT which I currently control with a Phottix Strato ii system, but there are times when I am using 2 or 3 lights and would like to make rapid changes from the camera position. Applying a flex/mini + AC3 system would probably work out cheaper than moving to more 600's but I'm interested to hear people thinking that the Canon system is far superior.

I've found the Phottix Stratos to be very reliable but obviously they don't have the functionality of the higher models and I haven't used them out to 80 feet as the OP was requesting.


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## eml58 (Jun 15, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> eml58 said:
> 
> 
> > Be aware that with the 5DMK II using the RT system of the EX600RT + STE3RT, you will not have HSS, and I believe you are reduced one stop to 1/100th max instead of the 1/200th you will get on the 1Dx/5DMK III.
> ...



Wasn't aware of a lot of that, Thanks.

And good advice, unless you already intend purchasing one of the newer Camera Bodies, the cheaper road may be more sensible until your ready to splash on the new Body.


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## scottkinfw (Jun 15, 2013)

My 2 cents: on my 5DII, PW tt mini + AC3, paired with two 580EXII with tt5's- not all that reliable all the time. I out up with it because I can futz with the exposure until I get it right, rather than count on it being right shot after shot. When I can't count on it at all, or when I fall into a ton of money, or when I just get sick of it I'll belly up and get a couple of 600EX- RT's and not look back.

sek 



bardamu said:


> What about Pocket Wizards with the AC3 zone controller vs. 600EXs with ST-E3-RT? Wouldn't those give fairly similar functionality? I have 3 x 430EX ii + 1 x 600EX-RT which I currently control with a Phottix Strato ii system, but there are times when I am using 2 or 3 lights and would like to make rapid changes from the camera position. Applying a flex/mini + AC3 system would probably work out cheaper than moving to more 600's but I'm interested to hear people thinking that the Canon system is far superior.
> 
> I've found the Phottix Stratos to be very reliable but obviously they don't have the functionality of the higher models and I haven't used them out to 80 feet as the OP was requesting.


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## bardamu (Jun 15, 2013)

scottkinfw said:


> My 2 cents: on my 5DII, PW tt mini + AC3, paired with two 580EXII with tt5's- not all that reliable all the time. I out up with it because I can futz with the exposure until I get it right, rather than count on it being right shot after shot. When I can't count on it at all, or when I fall into a ton of money, or when I just get sick of it I'll belly up and get a couple of 600EX- RT's and not look back.
> 
> sek
> 
> ...



Interesting to hear that. Thanks for the info. Oh well, looks like another couple of items to add to my already bloated shopping list. One more 600 and the transmitter would probably do. I rarely need rapid control over 3 lights, 2 + a reflector could probably fudge that in many cases anyway.


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## docholliday (Jun 15, 2013)

scottkinfw said:


> My 2 cents: on my 5DII, PW tt mini + AC3, paired with two 580EXII with tt5's- not all that reliable all the time. I out up with it because I can futz with the exposure until I get it right, rather than count on it being right shot after shot. When I can't count on it at all, or when I fall into a ton of money, or when I just get sick of it I'll belly up and get a couple of 600EX- RT's and not look back.
> 
> sek
> 
> ...



The 580EXII has a lot of problems with the Flex/Mini - I gave up using the socks and the other "shields". Instead, I switched to a set of 430EXIIs, no shielding, and haven't had a single issue up to 250' or so. If I switch over to a Flex instead of Mini to transmit, I haven't had a single issue. It's just that 580 is noisy as all hell. You can always send the 580 out to be converted - it's just as solid then.

The worst was when I had a socked 580 in a softbox outdoors, the sun heated it up and it went psycho. I have yet to see anything out of the ordinary using a 430/no sock/softbox combo.

The AC3 does make setting ratios nice, and in manual mode, I can fire the setup with my Sekonic meter to measure ratios, etc without wires.

This all on a 1d3 and 1Ds3 setup. I've even hypersync'd up to 1/500s with acceptable results that didn't kick in HSS. 

The reason I stick with PWs is that my Max's, Multimax and plus units can also be fired in studio without a dumb trigger installed. If I went straight 600rt's, I'd still have to keep a set of PWs (probably all multimax's) to fire all my studio lighting. I'll sometimes fire 6 heads, and still have to add 430s as kickers snooted. So, I just kept what I had and didn't spend on the 600's. It's the problems with systems, you get locked into "that" system once you get started. Since I already have tons of PWs, I just stuck with them.


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## AvTvM (Jun 15, 2013)

Tabor Warren Photography said:


> ...
> I have the 600ex-rt and 430ex ii and was wanting to begin using them for radio triggering. I shoot a 5Dii and 60D.
> BEST option: something fairly inexpensive, and capable of transmitting ~80ft
> ... Any thoughts?



yes.
1. short-term: sell 430EX II and get another 600RT AND an ST-E3 in addition. Unfortunately NOT inexpensive, but the only solution that will give you a coherent radio-wireless ETTL flash system with 100 feet reliable range AND without any third-party crap involved.

2. To get FULL functionality out of the wireless flash system inluding HSS and without 1-stop hit on max. X-Sync time, will require replacing both camera bodies (5D II and 60D) with 2012+ Canon cameras (1D-X, 5D III, 6D, 700D, 100D ?, EOS-M]. 

3. Unfortunately even then wireless 2nd curtain sync or control over the flash-zoom-reflector setting will NOT be possible. 

4. Unfortuantely all other solutions include third party gear and do not deliver the entire bundle of radio-wireless functionality plus 100% reliability either. 

5. Please don't shoot me. I am just the messenger of bad news. Blame Canon.


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## Tabor Warren Photography (Jun 15, 2013)

Wow, thank you all for your comments. After reading all of your comments and insight, I think it would probably be the most simple to sell the 430 and buy another 600. I wish Canon would come out with a 450ex-rt or something of that manner and it actually would not surprise me if they did. I'm going to spend the next few hours looking into the third party gear for ease on my wallet and if I can take advantage of the radio functionality for less $$$ then I definitely will.

Thank you all again!!!
-Tabor


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## RLPhoto (Jun 16, 2013)

bardamu said:


> What about Pocket Wizards with the AC3 zone controller vs. 600EXs with ST-E3-RT? Wouldn't those give fairly similar functionality? I have 3 x 430EX ii + 1 x 600EX-RT which I currently control with a Phottix Strato ii system, but there are times when I am using 2 or 3 lights and would like to make rapid changes from the camera position. Applying a flex/mini + AC3 system would probably work out cheaper than moving to more 600's but I'm interested to hear people thinking that the Canon system is far superior.
> 
> I've found the Phottix Stratos to be very reliable but obviously they don't have the functionality of the higher models and I haven't used them out to 80 feet as the OP was requesting.



It's more convienent not having to carry PWs at all. Plus full control in the menu system and on the back if the flash. 

One credit Ill give to the PWs was 2nd curtain sync still worked. Other than that, I'm PCB cybersync + RT system for everything. PWs are pretty much dead to me now.


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## AvTvM (Jun 16, 2013)

Tabor Warren Photography said:


> Wow, thank you all for your comments. After reading all of your comments and insight, I think it would probably be the most simple to sell the 430 and buy another 600.



You might want ot considerb alson buying a ST-E3 radio flash trigger. 1x ST-E3 and 2x 600EX will give you a system with 2 off-camera flashes, without any need for 3rd party stuff. 



Tabor Warren Photography said:


> I wish Canon would come out with a 450ex-rt or something of that manner and it actually would not surprise me if they did.



Yes, it is a shame Canon is still not offering a less expensive radio-capable flash [450EX-RT] and no cheap little radio receivers for our existing 580 II and 430 II flashes. As long as Canon does not offfer a true radio-flash system [600EX-RT, 450EX-RT, ST-E3-RT and RT-receiver] that allows seamless integration of my fairly new and not inexpensive Speedlites, I will hold off buying.


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