# Canon EOS M5 Spotted at Russian Certification



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 27, 2016)

```
We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/there-will-be-a-new-eos-m-camera-coming-in-2016/">believe that the next camera to be announced by Canon will be the EOS M5</a>, a mirrorless camera that will be a departure from what has come before it. It won’t be a full frame camera, but it will be slightly upmarket from the EOS M3. Alongside the camera will be a new EF-M 18-150mm lens.</p>
<p>From Novocert/NokiS___a (Google Translator)</p>
<p>PC2258</p>
<ul>
<li>SKU: 1279C002AA, 1279C012AA, 1279C022AA</li>
<li>Products: body lens kit lens kit 2</li>
<li>Color: one color</li>
<li>Bluetooth · Wi-Fi equipped (PDF document)</li>
<li>Mirror-less camera</li>
</ul>
<p>PC2279</p>
<ul>
<li>SKU: 1724C002AA, 1724C012AA, 1724C022AA, 1725C002AA, 1725C012AA, 1725C022AA</li>
<li>Products: body lens kit lens kit 2</li>
<li>Color: 2 colors</li>
<li>Mirror-less camera</li>
</ul>
<p>We hope to be able to publish more about the EOS M5 in the coming days.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## jebrady03 (Aug 27, 2016)

Current generation DPAF and a built-in EVF or no sale. A fast portrait prime or 2 will be needed as well.


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## IglooEater (Aug 27, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> Current generation DPAF and a built-in EVF or no sale. A fast portrait prime or 2 will be needed as well.



If it's going upmarket price-wise I'll have to agree with you. DPAF is a must, or something similar that performs equally well. Built in evf seems more than necessary for a mirrorless camera.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 27, 2016)

"Slightly upmarket from m3"


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## candc (Aug 27, 2016)

Why not "M4"? Is that bad code in Japan for some reason?


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## Dylan777 (Aug 27, 2016)

candc said:


> Why not "M4"? Is that bad code in Japan for some reason?



https://www.tofugu.com/japan/number-four-superstition/

On the other hand, 5d4 will sell like a hot cake


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## candc (Aug 27, 2016)

Dylan777 said:


> candc said:
> 
> 
> > Why not "M4"? Is that bad code in Japan for some reason?
> ...



Interesting.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 27, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> Current generation DPAF and a built-in EVF or no sale.



Canon doesn't care if you don't buy it. They care about mass market appeal, and even if you don't buy the M5, there will be millions tens of thousands some people who will. 

</tongue-in-cheek>


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## asl (Aug 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > Current generation DPAF and a built-in EVF or no sale.
> ...



Nice one


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## Sporgon (Aug 27, 2016)

"Departure from what has come before it" could mean bigger, built in EVF, more dslr orientated, and more expensive. If so the M3 may continue. 

It is crying out for DPAF, but I suspect it will require a specially developed sensor.


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## Etienne (Aug 27, 2016)

DPAF and no moire or aliasing in video is enough extra for me. A couple of f/2 primes with IS, 4K and other goodies would be great.


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## David Littleboy (Aug 28, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > "Slightly upmarket from m3"
> ...



But the M3 is already pretty cheap. The body + wide angle zoom (here in Tokyo) are cheaper than the Sony Rx100 III. (Grumble; but add the finder and it's more expensive.) So there's a bit of room for price increase iff there's a built-in finder. If and only if.


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## pokerz (Aug 28, 2016)

Hybrids AF 4 I bet (huge upgrade)
Canon won't give 4K in order to protect the sales of 5d4 and 1dx2, rite?


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## MintChocs (Aug 28, 2016)

Somehow this gets my nose twitching, having given up hope on there being a SL2 coming out maybe Canon might finally bring out a small ILC that would be of interest, but please don't deliberately cripple it to the point where only mass consumers would buy it.


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## 9VIII (Aug 28, 2016)

At this point there's no way I'm buying anything from Canon unless it has DPRAW.

Bring it Canon.


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## pwp (Aug 28, 2016)

9VIII said:


> At this point there's no way I'm buying anything from Canon unless it has DPRAW.
> 
> Bring it Canon.



Yes it's a nice feature, provided you don't mind abandoning an evolved, well practiced Lightroom workflow for the required but clunky DPP. Canon just can't do software. Hoping that Canon will release the necessary DPRAW info to third party software makers, ie Adobe & Capture One. You'd be hard pressed to find a single professional photographer working with even modest volumes who would use DPP. The results are nice, the GUI is deceptively pretty but the workflow totally sucks.

I'd take a look at an M(x) when it has built in EVF & DPAF. Not so fussed about DPRAW in a pocket camera.

-pw


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## Ebrahim Saadawi (Aug 28, 2016)

EOS M5 (dream)

-80D Sensor 
(Makes it suitable for high dynamoc range landscapes and serious 24mp photography for portraiture)
-DPAF for stills and video
-Touch panel with selfie position
-Headphone/mic jacks
-4k video or at least 1080p with no aliasing at 60p
(Quality video + selfe LCD + DPAF makes it THE vlog/youtube camera)
-Large grip 
-Viewfiner or new better cheaper separate one that has a show mount on top of it.
-DPRaw 
-Antiflicker 
-High frame rate (6-7) at least
-Silent electronic shutter mode (weddings)
(DPAF + high burst + antiflicker would make it suitable for sports) 
-USB 3.0
-Wifi/NFC 

I mean they can do it. It's just marketing keeping this EOS M from us. Which with an EF adapter and just one ef-m (22mil) would be my A camera, for portraiture (great sensor), landscape (great DR and high res), and professional videography (4K/good HD with EVF and DPAF and tilt panel), I wouldn'r need another camera really. I am no Fullframe-affectionato. APS-C is a big sensor.


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## pokerz (Aug 28, 2016)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> EOS M5 (dream)
> 
> -80D Sensor
> (Makes it suitable for high dynamoc range landscapes and serious 24mp photography for portraiture)
> ...



who gonna buy rebel again :'(?


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## kbastomi (Aug 28, 2016)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> EOS M5 (dream)
> 
> -80D Sensor
> (Makes it suitable for high dynamoc range landscapes and serious 24mp photography for portraiture)
> ...



2000 USD pricetag? :-X


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## IglooEater (Aug 28, 2016)

9VIII said:


> At this point there's no way I'm buying anything from Canon unless it has DPRAW.
> 
> Bring it Canon.



Ok wow, that's quite a statement for a technology that we haven't even had a chance to try yet.


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## TeT (Aug 28, 2016)

pokerz said:


> who gonna buy rebel again :'(?



They have not made an M yet that is as good as a rebel. Image quality yes, but AF speed and usability, not even close... I hope this one can hang.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 28, 2016)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> EOS M5 (dream)
> 
> -80D Sensor
> (Makes it suitable for high dynamoc range landscapes and serious 24mp photography for portraiture)
> ...



lol .. that's so not happening.

not to mention .. what's with the fixation with the 80D sensor .. that probably wouldn't even work right on a EOS-M?


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## lw (Aug 28, 2016)

Folks should remember that the Russian Certification shows that this is a PowerShot based camera (like the M3/M10), not EOS-based. See https://nokiS___a-camera.blogspot.co.uk/p/blog-page_3.html#canon
So it won't be that 'up-market', but just an incremental improvement on the M3.

My guess is this will be like the GX7 II is to the GX7. A new digic giving it a much needed performance boost.

As for new sensors, and any other new features. Who knows? But I wouldn't hold my breath personally...

Also, don't read too much into the one model not having wifi or bluetooth. The source of those details isn't provided by Nokishita. It isn't in the Novocert filing AFAIK. So just treat for what it is. A partial, unconfirmed rumour.

Sorry - the filter removes the s word from Nokishita's name. So fill it in yourself


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## 9VIII (Aug 28, 2016)

pwp said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > At this point there's no way I'm buying anything from Canon unless it has DPRAW.
> ...



Right, for the pro you probably want to wait for Lightroom to support it, but for everyone else in the world (90% of consumers? 99%?) DPP works just fine.
Really I'm not sure where this opinion that Canon's software is suddenly inadequate came from. Of all the free software on the market Canon's has always been the best by a wide margin.
Does Sony even have RAW development software? All I remember hearing about Nikon software is that it crashes too much and Nikon shooters basically universally don't use first party software. Maybe things have changed recently but Canon's software was part of why I chose the brand four years ago. If you want to get the best results out of a RAW file without significantly modifying the image then Canon DPP is every bit as good as any other software on the market.





IglooEater said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > At this point there's no way I'm buying anything from Canon unless it has DPRAW.
> ...



The demonstration video is convincing enough, if they can give me extra depth of field information in every picture without changing any other settings then this is incredibly valuable.
For Macro this is will drastically reduce the number of pictures you need to take, and I can't really think of any reason not to use it everywhere else (besides the file size).
Unless the feature is a lie and they're not adding extra depth of field information to a given picture, but if the feature isn't smoke and mirrors then I don't see any reason that this isn't one of the most significant features added to any camera body in a long time.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 28, 2016)

lw said:


> Folks should remember that the Russian Certification shows that this is a PowerShot based camera (like the M3/M10), not EOS-based. See https://nokiS___a-camera.blogspot.co.uk/p/blog-page_3.html#canon
> So it won't be that 'up-market', but just an incremental improvement on the M3.
> 
> My guess is this will be like the GX7 II is to the GX7. A new digic giving it a much needed performance boost.
> ...



well yes.. but what did you expect?

it's never going back to EOS.. development is obviously firmly in the powershot group, and it was mentioned prior as a slightly upmarket, which i assume means slightly better performance.


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## Sharlin (Aug 28, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> not to mention .. what's with the fixation with the 80D sensor .. that probably wouldn't even work right on a EOS-M?



People want a) the DR and b) the DPAF. Whether it's the exact 80D sensor or something equivalent isn't important.


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## asl (Aug 28, 2016)

pokerz said:


> Hybrids AF 4 I bet (huge upgrade)
> Canon won't give 4K in order to protect the sales of 5d4 and 1dx2, rite?



I think the shot and most likely answer is no, M5 will not have 4K, because that will annoy most people.

Unless it is a plan so cunning, that the M5 will some how be better at 4K than the 5d IV in that it will have 1.6 crop for one ting one would hope(vs 1.75..). And the thinking being that people who have bought the 5d IV is more likely to buy the m5 as well. Then the M5 steeling sales from the 5d as the 5d is something totally different when it comes to stills. How many people considering a M5 will buy a instead 5d for the 4K options?. This is what I hope is the plan, but is far fetched.


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## Sharlin (Aug 28, 2016)

pokerz said:


> Canon won't give 4K in order to protect the sales of 5d4 and 1dx2, rite?



Really, how many people you'd guess there are in the world who a) want 4K b) consider buying the 5D4 or the 1DX2 and c) would instead buy an M if only one had 4K? 

There are probably dozens of actually _good_ reasons not to suddenly put 4K to the M5, two of the most obvious ones are power drain (the M's already have pretty inadequate battery life) and, as a direct consequence, heat dissipation issues. You can be certain that Canon isn't going to repeat Sony's folly with the A6300. Anyway, it would make zero sense to suddenly add 4K to a low-end consumer camera before even introducing it to Canon's prosumer DSLR series...


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## pwp (Aug 29, 2016)

9VIII said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...



Well it's kind of free, it's built into the price of your cameras. The viewpoint that Canon software is inadequate hasn't just made a sudden appearance. It is a long held opinion which has barely varied since the dawn of time. Nice hardware Canon, but errrgh, that software could do with some solid development.

DPP has a lot of passionate supporters and with good reason. If your photography isn't generating income, DPP is there and it works. It makes perfect sense. The resulting files are extremely good. 

It is mainly the superior workflow options that keeps busy shooters with Lr and to a lesser extent CaptureOne. 

-pw


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## 9VIII (Aug 29, 2016)

pwp said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



We're basically using the same concepts from opposite perspectives.

When Adobe charges $120 per year to use Lightroom I think it would be worthwhile for a lot of people to double check exactly how much benefit it actually provides.
The general impression I get about the industry right now is it's actually photoshop that most people really want, Lightroom is a secondary issue. There's nothing Canon can do to compete with Photoshop, but if you're doing anything other than high volume workflow and/or heavy editing, then an argument could be made that Canon's DPP may very well be the best tool for the job.

Software has always been one of Canon's strengths, and if their solution doesn't mesh with your workflow then that's just a matter of personal preference.


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## pwp (Aug 29, 2016)

9VIII said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...



It's horses for courses. I'm perfectly happy to pay for the full Adobe CC Suite and it's a no-grudge business spend. From a cold hard business viewpoint I get good value from it. But of course that won't be the case for all photographers. The modest $120 per year for the Photoshop/Lightroom bundle is an absolute bargain, validated by photographers across the planet.

It's commendable that Canon does ship software with their cameras, but I think you'd find a poll would reveal that very few high volume workflow photographers would opt for DPP over Lr. 

Lr is a professional standard tool. If DPP was up to the job and was a true equal to Lr then just about every Canon shooter from enthusiast to major studios would use it.

-pw


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## 9VIII (Aug 29, 2016)

pwp said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



A poll might be more interesting than you would think.
If you're looking at forum demographics I think it would be safe to say that less than half of the people posting here make any money off of photographs at all, and market demographics as a whole will put the vast majority in a completely amateur or personal use scenario.
And how do you define "high volume" anyway?

Lightroom seems to be a product that is proliferated because of its broad compatibility. Most people have no choice, but if you're a Canon shooter you do have a choice, and it would be prudent for the majority Canon users to at least try both and give each one a thorough examination before committing to something that will eventually cost thousands of dollars.


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## AvTvM (Aug 29, 2016)

EOS M5 in 2 variations ... 
M5v = "video-enhanced" version with full fledged 4k video and 
M5s = "stills-centric" version
would both sell very well. 
so clear to see ... but no ... stupid, Canon!


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## Woody (Aug 29, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> ... will be a departure from what has come before it... but it will be slightly upmarket from the EOS M3.



I find the above 2 descriptions contradictory and confusing. 

Almost sounds like CR has no confirmed info about the EOS M5, apart from its moniker.


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## weixing (Aug 29, 2016)

Hi,
I'll be interested, if they include the remote control terminal, so I can use an intervalometer or if they built-in an intervalometer function that allow doing longer than 30s exposure.

Have a nice day.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 29, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> EOS M5 in 2 variations ...
> M5v = "video-enhanced" version with full fledged 4k video and
> M5s = "stills-centric" version
> would both sell very well.
> so clear to see ... but no ... stupid, Canon!



That has to be the dumbest suggestion I've read in a while.


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## Schwingi (Aug 29, 2016)

I lost faith in a Canon Mirrorless future... They ignored it too long imho.


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## crashpc (Aug 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > EOS M5 in 2 variations ...
> ...



How so?
Reminds me of I-Robot (You must be the dumbest clever person in the world! And you must be the dumbest dumb person in the world. :-D)

We have this at FF line, so I see no problem having this in crop sensor line. Also we had higher resolution of crop sensor than what any Canon delivered at that time with T6i/s compared to EOS 5D III, so it is not like Canon would not allow ANY specification from lower line to be "better".
If I have to get lousy 3FPS with 4shots deep buffer from Canon and buy it in a way to not feel totally milked, then let it be 32+Mpx sensor.


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## 9VIII (Aug 29, 2016)

crashpc said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Maybe it's just the names that sound silly.

I've had similar ideas ever since the A7S came out.
If Canon ever decides to implement high quality 4K recording in a consumer level crop body then they should release a Rebel or EOS-M with a 12MP sensor. They might even be able to do it with the old manufacturing process and pump out the chips for less money than something with higher resolution.
I think it's an eventuality that Canon will release a 4K capable Rebel, it's just a matter of time.


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## pokerz (Aug 30, 2016)

9VIII said:


> crashpc said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


Canon is SMART, they have to protect the 4k Top EOS line, eg. c100, 5d4 and XC10 ...line
Just wait til 2020, we may have chance to see a 4k rebel


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## Khufu (Aug 30, 2016)

I've not fanned any rumour-flames recently, sooo...
Shall we talk about the significance of the big ol' '6D' they've slapped on the Wireless Module's labeling? I'm sure it's nothing...


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## 9VIII (Aug 30, 2016)

Khufu said:


> I've not fanned any rumour-flames recently, sooo...
> Shall we talk about the significance of the big ol' '6D' they've slapped on the Wireless Module's labeling? I'm sure it's nothing...



There's no possibility of an adapter being used with the 6D since it only has one memory card slot (not to mention that it already has wi-fi).


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## mc (Aug 31, 2016)

I'm a happy owner of Canon SL1 - because of that I'm obviously very interested to see SL2 and/or a replacement of Canon M3. I'm in a constant battle with myself whether I should switch to mirrorless already. I'd love to have a mirrorless version of my SL1, just the existence of EF-M 22mm lens is enough reason. 

That got me thinking. I suppose SL1 was a huge success, so it is a natural thing to continue that idea. But what if there will be no SL2 and SL1 was just an experiment to check if the market wants a body like that? Maybe upcoming M5 will be a mirrorless version of SL1? That could be wishful thinking, but SL1 body (obviously without space for a mirror) with EF-M mount and new sensor would be amazing.

To sum up, I'm thinking that SL2 is not coming and M5 will have a similar body to SL1.  What do you think?


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## eosuser1234 (Sep 1, 2016)

The Panasonic GH5 specs look ready to blow the Canon M line out of the sky at least for video use.
Although maybe the need for 4k at present may be a bit exaggerated, the same could be said for Megapixel count. 80% of the population would be fine with 8 megapixel jpegs, just like 80% is fine with 1080p @ 30fps. Human nature leaves us wanting more and better, and we expect that in today's modern world. If Canon took the same approach to megapixel count as they take to their semi-pro camera line for video, they would be giving away huge market share to Sony and Panasonic. A few mistakes by Canon and Nikon have let Sony and Panasonic work themselves into the camera/photography market. It is a competitive market these days for sure.


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## rsdofny (Sep 1, 2016)

pokerz said:


> Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> 
> 
> > EOS M5 (dream)
> ...



May be they should just phase out the rebel ...


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## 9VIII (Sep 2, 2016)

rsdofny said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> ...



Ideally the features on the 760D would just trickle down to cheaper bodies. I really think Canon would benefit if they just made it easier to get into the EOS ecosystem, which is basically all that remains of the market for devices dedicated to photography.
It really is surprising how many features they were willing to put on the M3.
One of the most exciting things about the rumor is the "More Classical Design" part.
If "Classical" means "More Dials" then they're basically giving it features normally reserved for high end SLR bodies (I don't know why Canon is always so protective of their dials), and eliminating 99% of the reason I want a Fuji.

If they give the M5 a dedicated ISO dial it would be a dream come true.


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## pwp (Sep 2, 2016)

eosuser1234 said:


> The Panasonic GH5 specs look ready to blow the Canon M line out of the sky at least for video use.....


Where are you getting your GH5 specs from? Rumor or fact? 

As a GH4 shooter (for my video work) I'm extremely interested. The GH4 probably blows anything M and lots of others out of the sky for video. For video under 1600 iso it also leaves my 5D MkIII gasping for respectability. 

-pw


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## AvTvM (Sep 2, 2016)

9VIII said:


> If they give the M5 a dedicated ISO dial it would be a dream come true.



no, what for? Even the EOS M (1st gen) has a *multifunction wheel* on which ISO can be set to the bottom "press" on that wheel [instead of "delete"] ... one quick press, then turn the wheel and set ISO as desired. There is also no reason for a monofunctional EV +/- dial. Or for a hardcoded shutter speed dial. or for a monofunctional aperture ring. In the analog times, thiose where necessary. In a digital, multifunctional user interface as good as Canon's [EOS, not powershot!] UI is ... no need for all those Fuji-style dials and buttons all over the camera.


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## 9VIII (Sep 2, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > If they give the M5 a dedicated ISO dial it would be a dream come true.
> ...



So why did Canon just add another easy access toggle to the 7D2, 1DX2, and 5D4 that lots of people like setting to ISO? (According to the Canon rep in the 5D4 preview video.)

Ever since I started reading about photography one of the most commonly mentioned reasons that people like "high end" camera bodies is the tactile nature of the controls.
If multifunction controls are so good why doesn't Canon make a 1D with just one wheel?

It's either useless on everything or it's better on everything (excluding cameras marketed to the Selfie market).


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## AvTvM (Sep 3, 2016)

a digital camera only needs 1 dial [Mode select] and 2 wheels for shooting parameters - if UI is as good as Canon's EOS as on 80D upwards:
1x rear thumb-wheel, multifunction, press sensitive, mode-sensitive 
1x top front wheel, multi-functional, mode-sensitive 
no problem to press rear wheel or button to select desired parameter (e.g. ISO) and then dial in desired value. 
EV +/- is implemented perfectly in Canon EOS UI (on thumb wheel)
Ideally combined with a fully articulated touch LCD for live view shooting / on tripod. 

Anything else is as retro and useless to me as Fuji or worst of all: Nikon Df.


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## 9VIII (Sep 3, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> no problem to press rear wheel or button to select desired parameter (e.g. ISO) and then dial in desired value.



I feel like this is some kind of attempt at conditioning.

People should ask for at least four wheels so that Canon might actually implement three.
But if someone really wants four then we should actually be talking about a camera with five dials.

Aperture, Shutter Speed, ISO, Compensation Value... And I've always wanted a wheel for manual colour temperature adjustment on the spot.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 3, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Aperture, Shutter Speed, ISO, Compensation Value... And I've always wanted a wheel for manual colour temperature adjustment on the spot.



You forgot the mode dial, and the strength dial for the built in K-cup brewer.


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## 9VIII (Sep 3, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Aperture, Shutter Speed, ISO, Compensation Value... And I've always wanted a wheel for manual colour temperature adjustment on the spot.
> ...



Right, we need a wheel with 10 Custom Function profiles, plus bigfoot mode, and as long as it's a 4K coffee machine it would probably be met with near universal applause.


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