# 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases



## Marsu42 (Oct 15, 2013)

So I've at last bought a 6d and am fine with it because I knew what I was getting and what for. Still, Canon didn't dare to cut tracking completely - so the 6d does have an "ai servo"ish feature. After trying to use it a bit I'm not yet convinced I've got the best settings and handling method and would like to ask for your experiences.

1. Single af point tracking. So far I've found the outer points are bad for single point tracking, certainly worse than my 60d which has crosspoints and also up to +0.5lv light sensitivity. The 6d has trouble locking focus on low contrast areas like horses' foreheads, which also shows in stills shooting but really becomes a problem when trying to track in portrait position. Any different experiences?

2. Multi af point tracking: From 5d2->6d Canon didn't only reduce the af points from 15 (inc. tracking helpers) to 11, but also cut the firmware hook to select focus patterns through Magic Lantern - so you're stuck with either all or one af point.

My short experience indicates that when not tracking an elephant running towards you the 6d does a bad job choosing the af points and for some weird reason tends to ignore the good center point. If "center point with outer point tracking helpers" would work, the close af spacing could be a blessing in disguise - but somehow I found the selection to be rather erratic. Is this due to a not optimized Canon firmware, do I have the wrong settings or was I just unlucky so far?

3. The 5d3 has "af cases" which link the af settings to neat packages. With the 6d, you're on your own to find the best combination for different uses. I was trying to track running horses (from me, to me, parallel to me) - what do you track and what settings do you find work best?


_Tracking sensitivity:_ I'm using "responsive" since I try to keep the object in the center af point - what's your experience with multipoint af, is "responsive" too erratic?
_Accel./decel. tracking:_ I'm using higher values, or does this in your experience generate a too erratic behavior with the mediocre 6d af points?
_AI Servo 1st image priority:_ I'm using "release" because I'd rather get an out of focus shot than lose a good one - or do you find the 6d is reliable enough to determine when the first shot is in focus? 

_Disclaimer: This thread is intended to help 6d users with tracking and multipoint af, if you don't have something helpful to add feel free to participate in another thread about the 6d's greatness or regressions vs. the 5d3._


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## RLPhoto (Oct 15, 2013)

*Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases (no fanbois or "just get a 5d3")*

Stick to center point only, shoot wider and crop in post for composition. Exactly the reason I left said AF system. :


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## Skirball (Oct 15, 2013)

*Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases (no fanbois or "just get a 5d3")*



Marsu42 said:


> My short experience indicates that when not tracking an elephant running towards you the 6d does a bad job choosing the af points and for some weird reason tends to ignore the good center point.





That problem I find is that although the AF points are able to lock onto an elephant running towards me, the polycarbonate and aluminum elements of the frame just aren't strong enough to protect the SD card for retrieval later.


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## BozillaNZ (Oct 16, 2013)

*Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases (no fanbois or "just get a 5d3")*

I bought a crappy Honda because I knew what I was getting and what for, now just tell me how can I drive this babe at 200MPH. Just tell me. I floored the gas pedal and it still struggles at 80MPH, what's wrong with it?

I don't want to hear anything like "just buy a Porsche".


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## chilledXpress (Oct 16, 2013)

*Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases (no fanbois or "just get a 5d3")*



Marsu42 said:


> So I've at last bought a 6d and am fine with it because I knew what I was getting and what for. Still...



So, you knew what you were getting into and are fine with it... sounds like you should know the answer already.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 16, 2013)

*Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases (no fanbois or "just get a 5d3")*



chilledXpress said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > So I've at last bought a 6d and am fine with it because I knew what I was getting and what for.
> ...



Of course I know that the af system won't be come a 5d3, but I suspect I could do better with tweaked settings or technique ... tracking is an optional extra for me, if it won't become better I'm ok with it, as long as I know it's the camera's fault and not mine. It's not like I wouldn't get nice tracking shots out of it, because at least iso3200 is usable unlike on crop.

I hope *some actual 6d users *might share their insight, since unfortunately until now it's been more of "I'm able to buy a 5d3 and am proud of it" posts which aren't helpful for the actual case.


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## AmbientLight (Oct 16, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> I hope *some actual 6d users *might share their insight, since unfortunately until now it's been more of "I'm able to buy a 5d3 and am proud of it" posts which aren't helpful for the actual case.



You need to get out of this mess. You are unlikely to achieve any degree of AF happiness expecting to trick your 6D into doing more than its intentionally limited AF system can do. Anything remotely possible has been tried with 5D Mark IIs for years, hasn't it? My recommendation is to put up with its limitations, like Ramon has suggested:



RLPhoto said:


> Stick to center point only, shoot wider and crop in post for composition. Exactly the reason I left said AF system. :



The only way to get around that without touching a 5D Mark III is an even more costly remedy: First put some money aside, then purchase a 1D-X and you will soon forget any gripes regarding 5D Mark III users.


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## Viggo (Oct 16, 2013)

The fastest way to get oof images is setting 1st image to release. I Improved my tracking so much when setting the 1st image to only focus. If the first shot is off you have to use Erratic settings to try to get the next One focused. If you set 1st image to focus, and the Other settings to provide stable tracking and allow your point drifting without focus jump it will give you loads better hit rate.

I use single point and Case 1 for slow and normal subtle movement, and 4 point expansion and +1 on acc/deacc And -1 on sensitivity for erratic behavior , works great. (This is all on the 1dx)


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## Marsu42 (Oct 16, 2013)

AmbientLight said:


> You need to get out of this mess. You are unlikely to achieve any degree of AF happiness expecting to trick your 6D into doing more than its intentionally limited AF system can do.



I wouldn't call shooting with the 6d a mess  since I'm no pro sports shooter, I'm just trying not to stay even below what the 6d can do.



AmbientLight said:


> Anything remotely possible has been tried with 5D Mark IIs for years, hasn't it?



Indeed, but you're implying 6d = 100% 5d2 ... I wouldn't completely exclude the possibility that Canon has done at least a minor degree of changes, so why not ask other 6d users about it?



Viggo said:


> The fastest way to get oof images is setting 1st image to release. I Improved my tracking so much when setting the 1st image to only focus.



Thanks, I'll try that next then.


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## AmbientLight (Oct 17, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> AmbientLight said:
> 
> 
> > Anything remotely possible has been tried with 5D Mark IIs for years, hasn't it?
> ...



I don't want to imply that it is 100% the same, but given the 6D's positioning in Canon's camera lineup, you are facing any possible attempt by Canon engineers to not make the AF any better, which already was the 5D Mark II's obvious weakness compared for example to a 1Ds Mark III. Your attempt at collecting information is understandable, but I am just rather pessimistic regarding the outcome.

What I described as a mess is how I've got the feeling that you may eventually feel boxed-in by the limitations of the camera, which is not to say that it is not fully capable to capture beautiful shots, but you will have to live with workaround solutions for focusing.


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## jblake (Oct 17, 2013)

Your best bet is to use the center AF point and use focus priority on the first shot in the AI Servo settings. This is what I did when I owned a 6D earlier this year. If you think there is some magical AI Servo setting that will allow those horrible outer AF points to acquire accurate auto-focus/good hit rate of sharply in-focus images, you are dreaming. You are experiencing the major downside to the 6D, the outer AF points; especially for action type photography.

I tried every conceivable AI Servo setting and nothing really made a meaningful improvement with regard to those outer AF points. I shot some High School basketball games, and with the center AF point, I easily got a 90%hit rate for shots that were in focus . When using the outer AF points, maybe 30% were in focus. Same story for breaching Humpback Whales in Maui earlier this year. You have to deal with the _reality_ of using the center AF point and then crop to recompose if you want/expect to have a high hit rate of useable images.

So, in short, it is not you but the 6D that has issues in AI Servo; this camera is simply NOT designed to excel in this area.


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## verysimplejason (Oct 17, 2013)

Coming from a TI1/500D, the 6D AF is a lot faster. I've used the 5D2 for work and 6D is just a lot better compared to it. For my uses, 6D is quite good enough even for wedding events. I was able to survive with a 5D2, there's no reason I'll survive with a 6D even for wedding events.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 6, 2013)

jblake said:


> Your best bet is to use the center AF point and use focus priority on the first shot in the AI Servo settings.



I am doing the same by now, and it works ok unless of course a non-cross point fails to focus in flat low-contrast surfaces ... the most important setting is "focus priority" since with the low fps of the 6d you are guaranteed to get mostly oof shots otherwise.



verysimplejason said:


> Coming from a TI1/500D, the 6D AF is a lot faster.



Oh my, now that's high praise indeed for the €1500 6d af :->


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## verysimplejason (Nov 7, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> jblake said:
> 
> 
> > Your best bet is to use the center AF point and use focus priority on the first shot in the AI Servo settings.
> ...



Well, that's how it is... If there's any relief, I still got better pictures than my friend with 60D and 5D3. I don't know what's your problem with it but if it can't serve your purpose then you have bought the wrong equipment. You can't criticize something whose characteristics you know already before even buying it. 

Anyway, I've had more success with it tracking movements using center point AF. I've tried and compared it with my friend's 60D center point AF, servo mode and the performance is almost the same. I've used both a 28mm F1.8 and a 50mm F1.8. I feel I got more keepers with it than my company's 5D2. I won't hesitate using it instead of a 5D2. The fact that I can take nice pictures with it even at 12800 is already enough for me. I think if you still got problems with 6D AF and can't afford a 5D3, changing the focusing screen and doing it in manual mode might do the trick. I have used this technique in my old Yashica SLR and is quite successful doing it. But of course, if you can afford a 5D3, then by all means go for it. There's no reason to buy a tool you can use for your purpose.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 7, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> Well, that's how it is... If there's any relief, I still got better pictures than my friend with 60D and 5D3. I don't know what's your problem with it but if it can't serve your purpose then you have bought the wrong equipment. You can't criticize something whose characteristics you know already before even buying it.



There's fundamental difference between you and me, and maybe also a difference between other CR members...

... of course I can criticize something I own and decided it's within my budget which will mean if has some flaws. I don't just stop pointing out the flaws just because I decided I can make do with it and work around the problems (with the help of constructive threads like this to find workarounds, not praise or bash the af system or each other for that matter).

Because if I wouldn't where would we end up - other people say you cannot criticize something you *don't* own because you don't have the proper experience. So if I cannot criticize something I own nor something I don't own, should apply for a job in Canon marketing :-> ?


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## verysimplejason (Nov 7, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Well, that's how it is... If there's any relief, I still got better pictures than my friend with 60D and 5D3. I don't know what's your problem with it but if it can't serve your purpose then you have bought the wrong equipment. You can't criticize something whose characteristics you know already before even buying it.
> ...



6D's flaws are well known even before you started this thread. Right? It's like I've bought scissors when I need grass cutter logic then I point out the scissors' short comings based on my grass cutter's expectations. Near enough? : During its very first press release, Canon already pointed out that this camera has only one cross point. Saying that, everybody knows what to expect. It's not an action camera and didn't even pretend even for 1 sec. To add, everyone knows 6Ds flaws through reputable sites already, DPReview and The-digital-picture to name a few. If anything, I think you can question Canon's logic in introducing 6D and why it doesn't fit your budget and your expectations. There's a Canon forum for that I believe.

Well, you can keep on criticizing it but keep your expectations down since on the on-set 6D isn't even promised to be a prime body (or even decent) for tracking actions. There's a limitation on what the software can do for a hardware not built really for action or moving objects. I'm with you though hoping that there's still hope but it is what it is. Good luck finding your answers (work-around) though. Deep inside, I wish you'll find it. 8)


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## Marsu42 (Nov 7, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> Well, you can keep on criticizing it but keep your expectations down since on the on-set 6D isn't even promised to be a prime body (or a decent body for that matter) for tracking actions. There's a limitation on what the software can do for a hardware not built really for action or moving objects. I'm with you though hoping that there's still hope but it is what it is. Good luck finding your answers (work-around) though. Deep inside, I wish you'll find it. 8)


One thing that could be improved through Magic Lantern is an option to select "af patterns", i.e. not only one or all af points but for example the 3 or 4 to one side which would make the decisive difference to tracking attempts - they're looking for a solution, but it Canon changed the fw 5d2->6d so the old method doesn't work anymore.

Also I'd like to point out again that "tracking with the 6d" is an optional extra for me, and I just want to get it working as far as it is capable of - otherwise I'm very happy with the 6d concerning its iq as I just commented here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=17950.msg332856#msg332856


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## Martin (Nov 7, 2013)

One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF) I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 7, 2013)

Martin said:


> One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF) I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.



Lol that's cute.


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## Martin (Nov 7, 2013)

it's not for me to be honest.


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## Sporgon (Nov 7, 2013)

Martin said:


> it's not for me to be honest.



Ah, glad you qualified that. 

For a moment I thought you needed help.


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## Martin (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't need help, just another camera or a system. The above history is reality. Me and few of my colleagues were really shocked when seeing the results of testing.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 7, 2013)

Martin said:


> One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF) I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.



Interesting... :

I don't why I got MUCH-MUCH more keepers in AI servo with 5D III than 5D II. Must the photographer ;D


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## Janbo Makimbo (Nov 7, 2013)

As long as you get some rags to wipe up all that Nikon oil!!! BP got fined millions for their oil spill!,


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## Martin (Nov 8, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Martin said:
> 
> 
> > One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF) I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.
> ...




"keepers rate"...ok...i am not talking about servo. I am talking about AF precision on all AF points, not about servo at long distance with more DOF and probably stopped lenses. Take 16-35 and check outer points with tripod and well lit target at close distance. Take 135L, adjust it for daylight and than go under different light (fluorescent or bulb). With 70-200 L at daylight, at 40 meters, at f3,5 shooting speeding cyclist-I had also a "higher keeper rate than with 5d2" but that's not a revolutionary AF.Old canons users did one funny thing-compare everything to 5d2 as a reference and even now, with 5d3-recompose. I am not a brand lover, I switch system 2 years ago (5d2, then 5d3) but I just regret due to AF. I used to use all AF points before, in D300 and it worked precisely for studio works, even when points were not x-type. Let me say I am kind of experienced user so it's not about skills etc. Just want to share it. No offence, I know you love canon, I tried for two years thinking that maybe I had a bad copies. No, i did not. It is only my subjective opinion.


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## eml58 (Nov 8, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> Martin said:
> 
> 
> > it's not for me to be honest.
> ...



Ok, that made my Friday, I'll be remembering this all weekend, and laughing.


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## J.R. (Nov 8, 2013)

Martin said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Martin said:
> ...



Do shift to Nikon by all means. Most good photographers who do this for a living change systems as and when it suits them. Andy Rouse changed to Canon basically for the autofocus performance of the 1DX. Art Morris on the other hand, shoots Canon through and through - I'm sure he knows what he is doing. 

So much for your "subjective opinion" - a highly biased and trollish opinion if anything.


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## captainkanji (Nov 8, 2013)

Any time I've tried to get fast action (not often), the outer points are pretty much useless. The center point worked great and always focused on what I aimed it at (which was not always what I wanted in focus ). I'm not seeing any method which can improve AI Servo with outer points. I'm starting to get the impression that the 6D wasn't designed for sports ;D


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## Janbo Makimbo (Nov 8, 2013)

captainkanji said:


> Any time I've tried to get fast action (not often), the outer points are pretty much useless. The center point worked great and always focused on what I aimed it at (which was not always what I wanted in focus ). I'm not seeing any method which can improve AI Servo with outer points. I'm starting to get the impression that the 6D wasn't designed for sports ;D


It makes lousy coffee too as it was not designed for that either...the 6D has never been promoted as a sports camera although experienced photographers can get decent sports shots ( Jared Polin for one) the 6D is a fine camera for the price, unfortunately at the price point it has a lot of unskilled amatuers have got their hands on it and tend to moan...' Oh but it doesn't have a built in flash'


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## verysimplejason (Nov 8, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:



> captainkanji said:
> 
> 
> > Any time I've tried to get fast action (not often), the outer points are pretty much useless. The center point worked great and always focused on what I aimed it at (which was not always what I wanted in focus ). I'm not seeing any method which can improve AI Servo with outer points. I'm starting to get the impression that the 6D wasn't designed for sports ;D
> ...



+1. 6D on the onset didn't even pretend it's a sports camera or an event camera. It is marketed as an "entry-level" fullframe. It's like the "rebel" of the full frames. Given that, there are many professional users of this camera due to its IQ per price consideration. It might be even better than 5D3 and the highly touted 1DX in some areas arguably. I think its primary weakness is that given its price, we will always compare it to D600 and D610 thus the expectations. If its price is below D610/D600 however, I'd presume that no one will complain.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 8, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> the 6D is a fine camera for the price, unfortunately at the price point it has a lot of unskilled amatuers have got their hands on it and tend to moan...' Oh but it doesn't have a built in flash'



Yeah, that's probably it - unskilled amateurs also naively tend to try to use the Canon menu af options (focus prio/accel/...) and orientation-linked af point and don't realize that these options make very little sense with the 6d's tracking or outer af point performance 



verysimplejason said:


> I think its primary weakness is that given its price, we will always compare it to D600 and D610 thus the expectations. If its price is below D610/D600 however, I'd presume that no one will complain.



That's the point - it isn't, the 6d was more expensive for most of the time and now they cost about the same - the new Nikon d610 is priced a bit above the 6d (about €1700) while the discontinued d600 was and is cheaper (about €1500).


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## Sporgon (Nov 8, 2013)

Pitty all those ill informed people who have bought the 6D instead of the 600/610/620/630D then :

The market determines which is best, so.............

If photographic retainers figures are to believed the 6D is well ahead of the 600D.


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## verysimplejason (Nov 8, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> Pitty all those ill informed people who have bought the 6D instead of the 600/610/620/630D then :
> 
> The market determines which is best, so.............
> 
> If photographic retainers figures are to believed the 6D is well ahead of the 600D.



mmmm... you got it reversed... D600. not 600D. ;D


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## eml58 (Nov 8, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> mmmm... you got it reversed... D600. not 600D. ;D



Yes, but I imagine the Nikon Management would prefer if People were to remain confused and continued to call it a Canon 600D, or a Sanyo 600D, rather than what it was, a huge Marketing and PR disaster, there can't be too many instances where a Major Camera Manufacturer is forced to bring out a completely New/But the Same, Camera Body, just to fix the issues that they designed into the Original.

And Nikon did all that without the usual Japanese Apology for foisting a complete disaster of a camera onto the Market, no recall, just 6 months later quietly put out the D610, only difference ?? The shutter mechanism doesn't do a daily Oil change onto your Sensor.

And I know someone will jump on this, I realise Canon have had issues over the years with elements of the design etc, but I don't recall Canon having had to release a new Body same spec within 6 months just to fix what seemed to be un fixable. I was one of the 1DsMkiii owners so I have some experience with recalls and fixes, most recently the 1Dx focus mechanism lubrication issue, all fixed, I still use these Cameras today, well the 1DsMkiii I no longer bother with as the 5DMK III does pretty well everything better.

Ok, that's Friday done with.


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## Sporgon (Nov 8, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Pitty all those ill informed people who have bought the 6D instead of the 600/610/620/630D then :
> ...




;D. Duh !! 

The DF is a much better name for people like me


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## Marsu42 (Nov 8, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> The market determines which is best, so.............



Hardly, given sufficient suppliy the market is the result of demand (= what the people buy), not what is best quality item for a price because there are a lot of other factors at play, even in a transparent market - which it usually isn't thanks to marketing :-o

For dslrs that would be existing equipment (learning loss and loss of selling and re-buying lenses), brand attachment and 3rd party enhancements, namely Magic Lantern. Add all these and Canon can very well sell an inferior product at a higher price while Nikon simply selling cheaper might not do them any good. There is also the "snob effect" which means a higher product produces more demand because it has to be better, right 

Disclaimer: ilovemy6dandthisthreadwasaboutfindingoptimalsettingsandiwontswitchtonikonever.


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## J.R. (Nov 8, 2013)

eml58 said:


> And Nikon did all that without the usual Japanese Apology for foisting a complete disaster of a camera onto the Market, no recall, just 6 months later quietly put out the D610, only difference ?? The shutter mechanism doesn't do a daily Oil change onto your Sensor.



Oh so you didn't hear about the significant upgrade that the Nikonians were craving??? 6 fps vs. 5.5 fps   

Nikon's official response to people asking about why the D610 was necessary is "The D610 was released in order to respond as quickly as possible to the demand for a faster continuous shooting rate and the addition of a quiet continuous shutter release mode. The shutter in the D610 has been improved so that it supports an increase in the continuous shooting rate from 5.5 fps in the D600 to 6 fps in the D610."


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## eml58 (Nov 8, 2013)

J.R. said:


> Nikon's official response to people asking about why the D610 was necessary is "The D610 was released in order to respond as quickly as possible to the demand for a faster continuous shooting rate and the addition of a quiet continuous shutter release mode. The shutter in the D610 has been improved so that it supports an increase in the continuous shooting rate from 5.5 fps in the D600 to 6 fps in the D610."



Oh, well, that explains it perfectly.

Missed all that, Thanks, I think.


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## Sporgon (Nov 8, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > The market determines which is best, so.............
> ...



I know this is getting a little off topic, but to continue:

From my own personal point of view I came across more D600 adverts than I did 6D, but I think it is really quite simple. To the average Joe who wants to upgrade to FF and doesn't have commitment to a system the 6D is simply more aesthetically pleasing than the D600/610. It's as simple as that. Also Nikon seem to fail to understand that fore mentioned Joe sees a camera _without_ pop up flash as much more 'professional' than one with it. 

I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again. If I were Mr Nikon I would get hold of Mr Canon's chief EOS designer, stick a big wad of cash in this hand and say "HELP".


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## J.R. (Nov 8, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



Canon actually sells a lot more APS-C cameras than Nikon and hence has more visibility (in human hands) for the average Joe. I really doubt how many buy a 6D as their first DSLR - It is more often than not an upgrade for the APS-C users. Advertising can help only so much in luring a Canon APS-C user to jump to Nikon and start afresh with the entire system.


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