# Experiences with ON1 Photo RAW 2018?



## haggie (Mar 1, 2018)

At the moment I have LR5 (and have frequently used LR6 on other people's PCs). I want to get something newer, but am not sure I want to go along with Adobe's monthly payment scheme.
Hence the need for a good comparison. 

I will give the trial version a go and I have already found several tutorial videos on Youtube (no written tutorials on the website of ON1).

I have read some reviews on the internet but I regularly get the impression that is often just a copy of ON1 press releases.

Therefore I would like to know if anyone has used ON1 Photo RAW 2018 to such an extend that he or she can tell something about its usefulness and limitations.

Thanks in advance!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 1, 2018)

What features do you need? 

Supported image formats Raw, Tiff, jpeg, Haif, DNG, PDF and so on

Color Management

Speed of processing? 

Image management is often a big item that is missing from editing software. If you only have a few images and can find them easily, it might not be a big deal, but once you have 20 years worth and tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, its a essential feature. A Database is the usual method to do this.

Printing ability - Some have strong features, some weak.

Soft Proofing (part of printing)

Paper type simulation (group with soft proofing)

Video editing?

Advanced editing, layers, masks.

Stacking

Panoramas


Make a list of what you use, and what you want to use. Then weed out software that does not fit your needs. Few if any use all the features, but if you want to do a simple task like remove a background and make it transparent or add a different background, you might not want to buy additional software and should make sure its supported.


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## haggie (Mar 1, 2018)

Thanks, Mt Spokane Photography. 
The questions you ask are all relevant. I just did not want to make a long post, this time.

The main subjects I photograph are aircraft in flight, birds (still and in flight), landscapes and architecture. 

I mostly use RAW-files, and occasionally TIFF (from scans) and now and then JPEG.
I process photos to be shown on screen as well as being printed, the latter both at commercial print services and professional print services. 

So far, however, I did not delve much into the color management much. Soft proofing I do not do (just trial and error).

Image management is no real issue so far. Each "project" I do (this can range from a vacation to an outing for shooting airplanes or birds) I store on HDD with my own naming conventions, with folder names stating each group of items I want to be identifiable. The Lightroom dB I store with it for re-use later, if wanted.
If ON1 supports the storage of each project's dB, than that is quite okay for me.

Advanced editing is important. Layers, masks, stacking and Panorama's (not very often - but when I need it I want this to work well) are all required. I want to be able to use profiles for my lenses and I would like the camera to be recognised by the software. I regularly can use a 7D Mk II and some others in addition to my own 80D, so in general this must be updated regularly in some way.

Video editing I do not do.

I am curious what experiences there are with ON1 for such tasks.


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## cayenne (Mar 1, 2018)

So far, I LOVE On1 RAW 2018.

I too have been using LR5 for years and do not want to pay Adobe "rent" for the foreseeable future.

I have enjoyed On1 RAW 2018, the extra features it has, like luminosity masks, and layers and such that LR does NOT have are really valuable to me so far.

The only drawback I found at first with first release of 2018 version...was not having quite the import ease of LR, with being able to set meta data, have it move off my card to main working drive and backup drive, and rename, etc.

HOWEVER, it appears the just released (today?) new version of On 1 RAW 2018.1 version, will address a LOT of those last concerns.

I've not had a chance to do the free update, but if it does as advertised, I think it will end all questions of me maybe buying LR6 before it disappears....and I may just go full on with On1 RAW.

Here's the import features the latest .1 version offers:

https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/

Scroll down and see the first video about "Import"....this looks like it will do what I need for LR replacement.

I do need to look a bit more into how On! differentiates between regular folders and "cataloged" folders...which I think the latter offer the same database type access that LR offers.

The thing is, with On1 RAW...you have a choice if you want things database'd or not.....

If this works, it could for me solve any complaints I have had.

As soon as I get the 2018.1 update and have time to play with it, I'll try to remember to come back here and update this thread with my findings.

If you're doing the free trial, you might see if you can update to the .1 trial version....it looks at this point as if this .1 version might be the 'great equalizer'.

cayenne


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## haggie (Mar 2, 2018)

Thank you, cayenne, for your elaborate reply.

I did not know there was a new version. I downloaded my trial version about a week ago. But so far I did not find the time to install it (work tends to have a penalty on one's spare time  ). But I will get the newer version, so I can try that from the start.

I am looking forward to your findings about ON1.
By that time I no doubt will have tried it for at least a bit.

Thanks again for your time, and looking forward to your update!


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 3, 2018)

I'm updated to ON1 RAW latest 2018 but still haven't had much time to use it. However, I have followed the updates that are based on user suggestions and they sure have been listening and pumping out improvements. I guess the question is, how competent their designers are.

It's interesting to see the suggestions and what is being looked at and implemented.

https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/ideas/

My feeling is, they're going to succeed.

Still, if every year is a new version that you have to pay for how does that differ from a subscription? 

Jack


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## haggie (Mar 3, 2018)

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Jack Douglas.



Jack Douglas said:


> I guess the question is, how competent their designers are.



This is indeed the answer I am looking for. 
There seem to be a lot of functions comparable with LR, and even some that go further. Finding out what functions ON1 offers and what they do is the first step.
But my main concern is indeed: can they lead to results that are at least as good as LR? 

I'm sure that ON1 needs some other workflow, at least at times. I do not have the illusion that one person can find out all this by himself in a reasonable amount of time. Therefore I hope to hear experiences in that area from others. 





Jack Douglas said:


> Still, if every year is a new version that you have to pay for how does that differ from a subscription?



That is a relevant question too. 
But I myself will only address this issue as soon as I formed my opinion what the program offers and how well it does that.


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## cayenne (Mar 5, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> My feeling is, they're going to succeed.
> 
> Still, if every year is a new version that you have to pay for how does that differ from a subscription?
> 
> Jack



Well, that's the thing...you *DON'T* have to buy a new copy every year.

If the version you have suits your needs, just like the old days with LR or PS or whatever....you can just be happy with what you have and not shell out any more money. That's the definition of the perpetual license.

And it does appear so far, that On1 RAW is at least putting out 1-2 updates per year, and those are free.

Just for fun this year, I signed up for one year of the On1 Plus Pro package (which includes this years' On1 RAW)...I think it was like $120-$130 maybe?
I wanted to see the extra content, tutorials, and all it offered, plus you get included with that, the *next* year's full update for no extra charge.

At this point, it seems worth it as I work my way through the tutorials, guest instructors, and extra pre-sets and tools they give out with the Pro package. Of course I won't be buying into that every year, and frankly, this 2018.1 version, with its new additions, looks VERY close to what I"ll be satisfied with for a long time to come.

I'd not need to buy new versions really after that I'd think...at least not annually by a long shot.


HTH,

cayenne


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## Mikehit (Mar 5, 2018)

My question would be how many do you process? 
I ten to be old school and process the lot. Others use a program to sort the keepers and process a very few - this itself may be dependent on your main interest: Wildlife typically has a huge redundancy, portrait and street photography less so.
If you need to process very few I would use a program like One1 to sort the keepers and use DPP to process the ones you want - the clunkiness matters less if you only convert a few of them.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 5, 2018)

cayenne, that's interesting and I'll be watching for your feedback. I now find DPP so quick and easy for the basic adjustments that I haven't put effort into ON1 RAW and I really should. Too many jobs interfering with my fun.

Of course, the bulk of what I've been shooting is just wildlife, needing only a bit of compensation and cropping so I don't have experience with all the fancy activities to know what I'm missing.

Jack


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## cayenne (Mar 6, 2018)

I tend to mostly bring in most of what's on my card.

I do look quickly to delete the ones that stand out as obviously out of focus, missed exposure that can't be fixed, horrible composition, and shots when I accidentally hit the button, etc.

But that's only a few..I bring these in, and then soft through and cull out the unusable and unfixable..and then from those I pull my winners and then just develop them.

Of late, I'm shooting mostly concerts and festivals...or just fun projects for abstract photography I'm sort of getting into....but when I shoot something like JazzFest coming up, I'm covering 2 stages back and forth all day for 4 days.

I shoot easily near 1K a day or more...so, I have a lot of card dumping and sorting and culling to do.

This year, I plan to try it out with On! RAW. I shoot that early May this year.

But I have some shots of a pup I bought for my mom recently and some shots of my 2005 Mazdaspeed Miata I'm about to put up for sale and those will be my first real tries with full workflow from card to finished develop.

I'll try to come back and post my experiences.

cayenne


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 6, 2018)

Thanks for that. ON1 seems to have a lot of good support material and hopefully a fairly large support community will evolve.

Jack


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 17, 2018)

Since I get updates relating to ON1 and have chosen it over PhotoShop subscription I thought it worthwhile to pass this on. I believe ON1 is trying very hard to improve and be good and competitive. Perhaps the number of videos on the various features is a good indicator of this, for anyone who's interested.

https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/getting-started/?utm_campaign=eNews&utm_source=RAW_Plus_Own&utm_medium=email&cm_mmc=Act-On%20Software-_-email-_-ON1%20News%20-%20April%202018-_-Watch%20now

Jack


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## dpc (Apr 17, 2018)

I use it fairly extensively. I like it. Anthony Morganti's YouTube channel has some excellent videos which essentially give you a 'how to' on most aspects of the software. I recommend it.


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## cayenne (Apr 17, 2018)

So far, I'm finding On1 RAW to be a darned good LR substitute.

With the 2018.1 addition, and by watching some videos, I now feel pretty decent about my process for bringing in my images from my card, backing them up, renaming and beginning my work flow.

I tend to bring in most everything and part of my starting workflow is the rating and culling of them.....

My only complaint so far, is they don't have a lens profile for my Canon 11-24mm wide angle lens. However, I found a link to upload sample images for my camera and that will be used to help them develop a profile for this lens, which granted, is a bit specialized.

I am really enjoying learning the nuances of starting with a luminance mask, and applying changes to the RAW files with those....there appears to be a LOT of things you can do with On1, that either you can't do in LR, or I just never found in LR5.

I do find, however, I have to be careful with On1....in that I find it easy to OVER process some images, I didn't have that much a problem with LR5. Then again, it just may be the sliders are a bit more sensitive than LR....but I have found a couple of images that after I exported them, give them a close look, I went "UGH"...and have had to go back and turn things down a good bit.

But again, is a new tool....and part of this may also be my learning curve, but even the short coming of On1 RAW I've seen so far, they seem to really be working on this software, and if it isn't quite yet up to par with everything on LR, I think they will close the gap in a VERY serious manner in the next 1-2 updates.

Anyway, if you are interested, I would highly recommend doing the free trial....and even if you buy it, it isn't that $$$ at all.....perpetual license, and if you like it, you are free to update only as you find it is worth it....

HTH,

cayenne


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## snappy604 (Apr 17, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Still, if every year is a new version that you have to pay for how does that differ from a subscription?
> 
> Jack



To some extent I agree, but on another level... so you get LR + PS, but don't use PS at $10 per month (not sure it's still that low).. that is $120 per year. I might replace something like LR or On1 or Affinity once every 3 or 4 yrs... at $120 per year subscription, that is $360 to $480 for what LR was ($150? I got mine for $80) or On1 pro (which I don't own, but seems to indicate forever upgrades) for $130..... 

so $130 for On1 or $150 for standalone LR cost for 3 yrs or via subscription $360 for 3 yrs... I think it's clearly more cost effective not to rent.

For me I also like owning, not renting.. it's a mind-set


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 17, 2018)

Many of us don't really want a rental scenario. Same when I bought my tanks for welding and it's partly that I'm not a pro and so not involved to the same extent.

And usually an upgrade is fairly reasonable and often more than reasonable if you don't respond initially. So, I'm with you given that ON1 is actually listening to suggestions and implementing what they can when they can and so far I see reasonable progress. And perhaps you like supporting a smaller player. 

Jack


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## stevelee (Apr 17, 2018)

I was used to paying close to $600 most years for upgrading Adobe applications anyway, so a $50/month subscription didn't seem that bad, even though I was resistant to the subscription idea. I don't use Illustrator as much as I used to, and I hardly ever use InDesign any more since I retired, but I would miss them if I didn't have them when needed/wanted. OTOH, I didn't have Premiere or Audition before, and have used them a bit. I'm doing a project of digitizing 78s of my neighbor singing as a present for her 90th birthday. I'll make CDs for her family when I'm done. I've used Audition for part of that process, along with Amadeus Pro and Audacity. Each has its strengths.

If it gets to where I have trouble affording lunch, I guess I'll drop the Adobe subscription, but probably not before.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 17, 2018)

I'm guessing most of us are cost conscious but that doesn't mean we would go for the cheapest if we really need better, so it's always challenging deciding. I'm inclined to be impulsive about what I think I need and often find I've wasted my money. 

Jack


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## Talys (Apr 18, 2018)

stevelee said:


> I was used to paying close to $600 most years for upgrading Adobe applications anyway, so a $50/month subscription didn't seem that bad, even though I was resistant to the subscription idea. I don't use Illustrator as much as I used to, and I hardly ever use InDesign any more since I retired, but I would miss them if I didn't have them when needed/wanted. OTOH, I didn't have Premiere or Audition before, and have used them a bit. I'm doing a project of digitizing 78s of my neighbor singing as a present for her 90th birthday. I'll make CDs for her family when I'm done. I've used Audition for part of that process, along with Amadeus Pro and Audacity. Each has its strengths.
> 
> If it gets to where I have trouble affording lunch, I guess I'll drop the Adobe subscription, but probably not before.



This is pretty much me. I was buying almost every Adobe upgrade, anyhow so whether I pay $50 or $10 per month, I'm still pretty much ahead. I still have CS6, and if I wanted to, I could just use that for Illustrator and InDesign, which I don't use a lot of. 

I am definitely in the minority, but I have a soft spot for CorelDraw over Illustrator (mostly, it's just that I prefer their Bezier mechanism over Adobe's, but there are some minor things like what I think is a superior area select mechanic).


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## Ian_of_glos (Apr 18, 2018)

cayenne said:


> So far, I LOVE On1 RAW 2018.
> 
> I too have been using LR5 for years and do not want to pay Adobe "rent" for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...


Is it reasonably easy to make the colours look realistic and natural with ON1 Raw? With Lightroom the colours in the RAW file always look pale and bleached compared to the JPEG that the camera produces. Is there an easy way of telling ON1 Raw to make the colours match those in the JPEG or does it involve spending hours adjusting each colour independently as with Lightroom?


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## tarntyke (Apr 18, 2018)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Is it reasonably easy to make the colours look realistic and natural with ON1 Raw? With Lightroom the colours in the RAW file always look pale and bleached compared to the JPEG that the camera produces. Is there an easy way of telling ON1 Raw to make the colours match those in the JPEG or does it involve spending hours adjusting each colour independently as with Lightroom?


To get Lightroom to produce colours similar to the jpeg you need to change the camera profile it uses. In the latest version of classic 7.3 this is in the basic panel. In previous versions it is hidden in the calibration panel I think. You can change the profile to one specific to your camera, set up a preset which you can use each time you import to Lightroom.


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## stevelee (Apr 18, 2018)

Talys said:


> I am definitely in the minority, but I have a soft spot for CorelDraw over Illustrator (mostly, it's just that I prefer their Bezier mechanism over Adobe's, but there are some minor things like what I think is a superior area select mechanic).



I much preferred the interface in Freehand to Illustrator of the same vintage. With the latter it seemed I was always having to spend time figuring out which of seven versions of the same tool was needed to do what I was trying to accomplish. When I would choose the wrong one, I would usually get a message on the screen explaining why I couldn't do that, and that I should pick another tool. Sometimes it would tell me which one. That annoyed me. If the program knew what I was trying to do, why didn't it just doing rather than giving me a lecture?

Freehand seemed to read my mind. There weren't so many flavors of tools, and I'd pick one and try to do something, and usually it would do it, whether it made sense of not to a purist.

I've got more used to Illustrator now, and maybe they have made it less user hostile.

And then there was the time when the leader of the Illustrator team said everyone should switch to Windows because their new Mac version of Illustrator was pretty bad. I decided it was just easier and cheaper to skip that version.


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## Durf (Apr 20, 2018)

haggie said:


> Therefore I would like to know if anyone has used ON1 Photo RAW 2018 to such an extend that he or she can tell something about its usefulness and limitations.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I've been using ON1 PR 2018 for several months and absolutely love it. It's not quite to the point to where I'm willing to give up the LightRoom Classic Subscription yet. I'm more often going from Lightroom to ON1 instead of Photoshop a lot more now and love the capability ON1 has in effects, masking, layers etc.

I could for all means actually get by with just using ON1 as a stand alone editor only but am waiting for certain fixes and improvements in ON1 before making a final decision to actually cancel my LightRoom subscription. I paid for the Pro Version and will get the Fall 2018 upgraded and improved next version free so I'll make a decision then if that Version has the upgrades/fixes I am looking for.

Anthony Morganti started a free Youtube ON1 Photo Raw 2018 Tutorial that is really great and shows what ON1 is capable of and how to use it in an easy understandable way, I would recommend checking his Video's out.

*Mastering On1 Photo RAW 2018*
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLllFqBuTM0WK6GWAbIngdllQ0C6PVDPIQ


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## cayenne (Apr 20, 2018)

Durf said:


> haggie said:
> 
> 
> > Therefore I would like to know if anyone has used ON1 Photo RAW 2018 to such an extend that he or she can tell something about its usefulness and limitations.
> ...



I'm using ON1 RAW myself....I opted for it, rather than getting LR6 which was the last non-subscription version.
What features are you looking for with regards to dropping LR?

Just curious...

TIA,

cayenne


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## Durf (Apr 20, 2018)

> I'm using ON1 RAW myself....I opted for it, rather than getting LR6 which was the last non-subscription version.
> What features are you looking for with regards to dropping LR?
> 
> Just curious...
> ...



Hi, I would like to see ON1 have a better import and organization system but for the most part I'm just waiting on them to fix a few bug issues especially with effects, masking, and layers which is causing some major slow downs in processing.

I've also had a few issues with ON1 sidecar files and also with some heavily processed photos looking different after exporting to my desktop as Jpegs.

All in all ON1's a great program and I'm just being a bit nit-picky as Lightroom has it's quirks too. (I'm also having a hard time weaning myself away from LightRoom)

I actually don't use photoshop all that much but with ON1 I find myself masking and using layers more often because of it's simplicity.....

Jumping back and forth from Lightroom and ON1 is getting old though and I'll probably end up using ON1 as a stand alone editor later this year when they release there next version....


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## snappy604 (Apr 20, 2018)

good to read some of the comments here. I'm always looking at alternatives.. thought Affinity photo might work for me, but it's really a photoshop alternative, not an LR alternative. 

I find its too complicated for volume processing which is what I want to do (really I'm just too lazy to research all it's capabilities, it's a good product).

thanks for the comments, I always value individual comments over a reviewer's as sometimes they sometimes appear to be always 'this is great great great' about every product. I imagine it gets them something, but it doesn't help me


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## cayenne (Apr 21, 2018)

Durf said:


> > I'm using ON1 RAW myself....I opted for it, rather than getting LR6 which was the last non-subscription version.
> > What features are you looking for with regards to dropping LR?
> >
> > Just curious...
> ...



Do you have the latest 2018.1 update?

They did do a lot of work on the import process....I watched the videos and then have been trying it and is pretty nice, I can now do many of the things I did in LR....I import from card, and also rename and send copies to backup NAS drive, key word...etc.

I set up Presets for this and I gotta say, its just about what I was doing with LR.

If you don't have the latest version, do an update, and then look at the On1 RAW latest videos that show importing and organizing....pretty cool stuff!!

HTH,

cayenne


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## Durf (Apr 21, 2018)

cayenne said:


> Durf said:
> 
> 
> > > I'm using ON1 RAW myself....I opted for it, rather than getting LR6 which was the last non-subscription version.
> ...



I've got the latest version with the latest updates. It's an awesome program and will most likely replace Lightroom and Photoshop for me.

Once you get more in to it and start using a lot of effects, masking, and layers, you'll see why I'm a bit hesitant to jump ship with Adobe.....ON1 still needs to work a few bugs out and do some fixes. They are suppose to have a pretty thorough repair patch and possibly some additions in June I believe....I'm patiently waiting.

I'm actually using ON1 right now for most of my image processing......


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## cayenne (Apr 23, 2018)

Durf said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > Durf said:
> ...



I find my main problem for now is, I seem to overdo things a bit more than I do in LR for some reason.

I'm not entirely sure why, but I seem to....and once I develop things, and step away, I come back and have to back off things a good bit.

Maybe it is just getting used to new software....

C


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## Durf (Apr 23, 2018)

cayenne said:


> Durf said:
> 
> 
> > cayenne said:
> ...



Yes, you can quickly over do an image in ON1, LOL, it's way more powerful than Lightroom in my opinion.

Plus what's cool about it is that I can do what I normally do in Photoshop right in effects and layers and not have to transfer images back and forth from lightroom and photoshop while processing. 

Once I win my inner psychological battle I'm having right now concerning totally getting away from Lightroom I'll be doing all my processing in ON1 only


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## stevelee (Apr 23, 2018)

Overdoing seems to come naturally, at least for me.

I don't do ON1 or Lightroom regularly, but open RAW files in ACR, because that's what I'm used to and don't need to do batches. I appreciate the light touch that ACR gives, and the ability to go back and tweak what I did, which you can with Lightroom and I assume ON1 (which I haven't tried in a while, so I don't recall).

But I find that when I use the equivalent filter in Photoshop, I tend to overcorrect. I immediately invoke the Fade command and move the slider around to see what looks best. Often about 75% of what I did with the filter is about right. I use Fade a lot otherwise for similar reasons (sometimes changing blend mode, and sometimes invoking the filter twice using different blend modes and small amounts each time).


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## cayenne (Apr 24, 2018)

stevelee said:


> Overdoing seems to come naturally, at least for me.
> 
> I don't do ON1 or Lightroom regularly, but open RAW files in ACR, because that's what I'm used to and don't need to do batches. I appreciate the light touch that ACR gives, and the ability to go back and tweak what I did, which you can with Lightroom and I assume ON1 (which I haven't tried in a while, so I don't recall).
> 
> But I find that when I use the equivalent filter in Photoshop, I tend to overcorrect. I immediately invoke the Fade command and move the slider around to see what looks best. Often about 75% of what I did with the filter is about right. I use Fade a lot otherwise for similar reasons (sometimes changing blend mode, and sometimes invoking the filter twice using different blend modes and small amounts each time).



Yes, with On1 RAW through most of the modules, you are still working with the RAW files and is purely non-destructive. When you get to the layers portion of On1, then you are in a comparable zone you would be in PS, in that you are then working on a rendered copy....although I "think" On1 either has or is working on a "smart object" analogous type container so you could still go back and change the rendered copy....?

That I'm not sure about yet....

But yes, I often correct and then I play heavily on each with the opacity level to dial it in.

Anyway, I think it is just new software I'm getting used to...the sliders in On! RAW do seem to do a LOT more at the extreme ends, than their equivalents in LR seem to do, and likely that is contributing to my overdoing adjustments.

I do with I had keyboard ways to "nudge" slider values by smaller values that I can do with my pen or mouse.....

C


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 25, 2018)

I and I believe others requested mouse wheel control of sliders and I think/thought they were working on that.

Jack


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## eml58 (Apr 25, 2018)

I've been using On1 since inception, and upgraded each time to the latest version, like Cayenne I paid the extra and have the Pro version of RAW, the tutorial content and free access to downloadable content is absolutely worth the extra.

I still tend to go from LR (due to the excellent file management) out to PS and On1 RAW, currently I do most of my image changes in On1, then save back to LR.

The 2018 version may change my view on this process, I'm actually finding On1 RAW to be as a good a file management system as LR.

My only minor beef at present is that I'm tending to process my images in Photoshop Actions quite a lot these days, and On1 as yet do not have that similar capacity to Photoshop (although I do know On1 are looking to support this ability in the future), neither does LR for that matter.

I started using On1 as it offered Layers and in a much simpler system than PS, and I've continued to be extremely impressed with the whole On1 environment, I think the guys that put this software together and continue to grow and support the system are a breath of fresh air.


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## cayenne (Apr 25, 2018)

eml58 said:


> I've been using On1 since inception, and upgraded each time to the latest version, like Cayenne I paid the extra and have the Pro version of RAW, the tutorial content and free access to downloadable content is absolutely worth the extra.
> 
> I still tend to go from LR (due to the excellent file management) out to PS and On1 RAW, currently I do most of my image changes in On1, then save back to LR.
> 
> ...



Yep, it is very interesting.

I'm trying my hand at using On1 RAW in conjunction with Affinity Photo.....so far, working pretty darned well...still trying to get my keyboard short cuts memorized or altered to fit what I'm used to in PS and LR, and then occasionally, having to stop and research to see how something I did in PS is done in Affinity, usually just called something else (different name)...etc.

For example, today in On1 RAW, I was trying to set up my own preset adjustment for "Iris Enhance" like in LR. I couldn't really find the clarity...a little research and finding that with On1, the Structure slider is the close equivalent of Clarity. 

I explored further and saw that maybe making a preset based off the Dynamic Contrast could maybe be something to look at too...etc.

Anyway..if nothing else, it is fun to try new things and learn new things. I'm still finding really cool ways to use all the masking in On1 RAW.

I'll be shooting Jazz Fest 2018 here in New Orleans the 2nd weekend, and this will be the first extreme test of doing a workflow sans Adobe, using On1 RAW and Affinity.....I'm shooting the 2nd weekend, Thurs-Sunday, and I think last year I shot close to avg 1000 images a day covering my two stages....

So, that will be a LOT of images to import, sort, cull, develop, and all.....a major test of On1 and my patience with doing something new.


I shoot a lot of the gospel tent, and there well, it often tends to have a LOT of people on stage, and last year I had good results shooting some of them in a quick pano. So, I'll be working that aspect out of the tools too.

Anyway, I'll likely update here with results.

cayenne


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 25, 2018)

cayenne, really appreciate your thoughts and any suggestions that come from your experience. I don't have Photoshop background so in many respects it's more challenging but at least there isn't unlearning going on.

Jack


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## cayenne (Apr 25, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> cayenne, really appreciate your thoughts and any suggestions that come from your experience. I don't have Photoshop background so in many respects it's more challenging but at least there isn't unlearning going on.
> 
> Jack



I've actually not had much a chance to play with the "photoshop" like section of On1 RAW...the "layers" area.

I've been having such a neat time learning how to do so many things in the RAW workflow, that are new to me and stuff that isn't in LR.

I prefer to do absolutely as much as possible with the RAW image....non-desctructive and easily altered if needed.

As a matter of fact, I just discovered that the latest version of On1 RAW has soft proofing.
I just played with that a bit....a simple example, but just to send some images to costco for 4x6 prints to send to my Mom from Xmas.

I downloaded the color profiles of the printers from Costco...and was interesting to see with soft proofing, the difference in what will be printed vs what I have on my screen. I will use this in the future, to make copies and adjustments to those copies that are specific for THAT printer....again, with RAW, easy to do without information loss.

I pretty much only use PS or Affinity Photo for PS type "heavy lifting"...like compositing images, or playing with painting effects, difficult touchups, erasing objects and reconstructing background, or just being weird for a day and seeing what I come up with.


But it appears you can do some of that stuff in On1 RAW with the layers portion. I will try to find time to play with that, but right now, on a bit of a schedule, and I'm pretty sure that the On1 RAW layers area, while powerful, won't be nearly as complete as PS or Affinity Photo are....so, likely will just go to those when I have images that need heavy lifting processing.

Anyway...it is interesting.

C


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## cayenne (Apr 25, 2018)

In case you're interested, I just posted an image I did in On1 RAW on this forum thread:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6882.msg718519;topicseen#new

Take a look and let me know what you think.

C


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## Mikehit (Apr 25, 2018)

The last time I tried On1 about 18 months ago, I found their content aware nowhere near the Adobe version. Yes, it is only one aspect but it is an aspect that made me want to keep with PS a little longer.


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## Durf (Apr 26, 2018)

cayenne said:


> In case you're interested, I just posted an image I did in On1 RAW on this forum thread:
> 
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6882.msg718519;topicseen#new
> 
> ...



Great job, looks good!

I'm finding myself doing more and more all the time in ON1, it's quite capable of doing quick easy clean tweeks to some pretty major stuff....


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## cayenne (Apr 26, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> The last time I tried On1 about 18 months ago, I found their content aware nowhere near the Adobe version. Yes, it is only one aspect but it is an aspect that made me want to keep with PS a little longer.



OOh...I think a LOT has changed since 18 months.

In fact, the 2018 version was pretty good, but the .1 update they recently did, made even more noticeable changes, the import system now is really more LR like, and I had missed that.

So, far, I don't find the On1 to be that great with how I've tried to use the content aware tools...I may be using them wrong tho....

But even with LR, I would often drop into PS (or now Affinity Photo) if I needed to do any heavy lifting...I use On1 and LR 99% just for things that work well with RAW image processing....I don't find either tool to be spectacular for content aware touch ups, unless on a really simple background. For that stuff, I use Affinity Photo or PS.

But do give it a look, a LOT has changed in 18 months....

C


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 26, 2018)

Sweet dog! Looks great but I wouldn't know what you've done to it.

Jack


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## Durf (Apr 26, 2018)

cayenne said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > The last time I tried On1 about 18 months ago, I found their content aware nowhere near the Adobe version. Yes, it is only one aspect but it is an aspect that made me want to keep with PS a little longer.
> ...



I started using ON1 last late October or right at the beginning of November and a lot has change just since then.

I've never tried Affinity but it looks pretty good. I've already paid for ON1 Photo Raw 2018 and am going to stick with them though, they seem to constantly be improving the software and it is actually quite good and fun to use.


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## zim (Apr 26, 2018)

cayenne said:
 

> *I'm trying my hand at using On1 RAW in conjunction with Affinity Photo.....so far, working pretty darned well...*still trying to get my keyboard short cuts memorized or altered to fit what I'm used to in PS and LR, and then occasionally, having to stop and research to see how something I did in PS is done in Affinity, usually just called something else (different name)...etc.
> 
> For example, today in On1 RAW, I was trying to set up my own preset adjustment for "Iris Enhance" like in LR. I couldn't really find the clarity...a little research and finding that with On1, the Structure slider is the close equivalent of Clarity.
> 
> ...



This is really interesting. Although Serif are working on a DAM I really don't like their RAW edit module. I use DxO for this and really rely on PRIME How does ON1 compare in this respect?

I really must try this when I get a chance. Thanks for your insights most appreciated.


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## cayenne (Apr 26, 2018)

zim said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > *I'm trying my hand at using On1 RAW in conjunction with Affinity Photo.....so far, working pretty darned well...*still trying to get my keyboard short cuts memorized or altered to fit what I'm used to in PS and LR, and then occasionally, having to stop and research to see how something I did in PS is done in Affinity, usually just called something else (different name)...etc.
> ...



Hello!!

Happy to help where I can...I'm not familiar with a couple of terms you used however.

Not sure what "DAM" is, and what is "PRIME".....it's early, no caffeine yet and I"m acronym challenged at the moment.


I basically at this time am using On1 RAW for all my ingest from memory card, filing, backing up, renaming....then I take it through rating and culling and then pretty much all my photo development.

This is what I used LR for.

When I need heavy lifting, such as compositing, heavy retouch....or just getting "weird" and experimental, I move that image over to Affinity Photo (my Photoshop replacement)....much as I did with LR/PS.

Affinity Photo has a RAW section, but I don't really use it much, I do the ON1 for that....much like so far, I've not used ON1's layers section...

I figure each has its strong suit....and I used that. I've yet to find the magic all in one application for RAW and Layered manipulations, so I have basically been trying to move from a LR/PS combination to an On1 RAW/Affinity Photo combination.

At this point, I think I'm covering 98-99% of what I need, I've not yet really run into something I could do with the former that I can't do with the latter in my work flows, I mostly have to just occasionally stop and learn that something has a new name, or shortcut, or may have a different method of doing the same thing.

But that happens with any software switch....I actually find it amazing that the non-Adobe counterparts have SO much in common with Adobe's offerings. 

I'm actually surprised there haven't been lawsuits flying frankly.

Anyway, if you can let me know what DAM and PRIME are in your context, I'd be happy to comment as best I can.


cayenne


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## Durf (Apr 26, 2018)

cayenne said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > cayenne said:
> ...



Hi, you can actually do some pretty heavy stuff with the masking in ON1, almost everything has a masking button in effects to do selective editing.....layers works quite well to.
It took me a little while to figure out certain things in ON1 but it is a pretty awesome program and can do a lot of heavy lifting.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 26, 2018)

Don't think ON1 is content resting on their laurels, I got a survey to fill yesterday and they are asking such things as, do you want basic video editing,etc.

I think I will always tweak my RAW shots using Canon DPP for starters as I've done in the past but I really have to start using ON1 RAW to learn but thee are so many unfinished jobs in my life and learning is tedious and not fun if you're in a panic.

Jack


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## Durf (Apr 26, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Don't think ON1 is content resting on their laurels, I got a survey to fill yesterday and they are asking such things as, do you want basic video editing,etc.
> 
> I think I will always tweak my RAW shots using Canon DPP for starters as I've done in the past but I really have to start using ON1 RAW to learn but thee are so many unfinished jobs in my life and learning is tedious and not fun if you're in a panic.
> 
> Jack



You can do the same things you're doing in DPP in ON1 and once you got comfortable you could start playing with some of the other tools ON1 has to offer. Watching Youtube Tutorials sped up the learning curve for me big time.

Heck, you could even learn to be a brain surgeon by watching youtube videos! lol


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 26, 2018)

Durf, you are right, all the information is there and I'm, up to now, not putting in the time to learn. No excuses that would hold water!  Ugh, and now there is the garden waiting to get tilled and ... and some people are bored in retirement. 

Jack


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## cayenne (Apr 26, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Durf, you are right, all the information is there and I'm, up to now, not putting in the time to learn. No excuses that would hold water!  Ugh, and now there is the garden waiting to get tilled and ... and some people are bored in retirement.
> 
> Jack



You could always set up the camera and do a time-lapse film of you doing that tile job....

Then use On1 RAW to adjust the images before putting them together into a movie!!
(There's alternative tools to Adobe for that too...some are free tools).


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## zim (Apr 26, 2018)

cayenne said:


> Not sure what "DAM" is, and what is "PRIME".....it's early, no caffeine yet and I"m acronym challenged at the moment.



Hi, sorry I shouldn't assume

DAM - Digital asset management (save, retrieve, catalogue). Edit, just looked at the link Jack kindly posted and it easily does what I would need in this respect.

PRIME - Noise reduction, it's rather excellent in DxO

Of the two noise reduction is by far the most important to me.

Regards


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## cayenne (Apr 27, 2018)

zim said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure what "DAM" is, and what is "PRIME".....it's early, no caffeine yet and I"m acronym challenged at the moment.
> ...



Ok, gotcha!!

Well, with On1 so far, I'm up in the air as to the noise reduction. I can only compare it to LR, I've not tried DxO, but I have heard it was a strong point they had.

I've been working recently with some images off my early model 5D3 (now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever updated the firmware)....and man once it goes above say 1250-1600....things start to get noisy REALLY fast.

It seems to be mostly luminance noise, I don't get much relief with color noise on either LR or ON1....but so far with either of them, I can only seem to clean them up just so much.

When it is bad, I usually resort to either doing them B&W, or trying to emulate older film, and make it a 'grain' look.


But the DAM parts, so far, are working for me on On1....like I liked in LR.
Perhaps still a bit more raw in execution, but workable. I'm anxious to see what improvements the early summer updates will give....

C


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 27, 2018)

I've found the NIK free NR when applied selectively to the background colors (maybe 150%) to be quite amazing. it is however quite tedious to do this because I make sure the subject is receiving very little (maybe 10%), so the shot must deserve the treatment.

Jack


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## cayenne (Apr 27, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> I've found the NIK free NR when applied selectively to the background colors (maybe 150%) to be quite amazing. it is however quite tedious to do this because I make sure the subject is receiving very little (maybe 10%), so the shot must deserve the treatment.
> 
> Jack



Oh WOW.....I totally forgot I had the old free NIK collection on my system.

I"ll start to try to play with those!!!

C


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## zim (Apr 27, 2018)

cayenne said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > cayenne said:
> ...



Cheers, really appreciate the info I've got to give this software a go!


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## Durf (Apr 28, 2018)

> Ok, gotcha!!
> 
> Well, with On1 so far, I'm up in the air as to the noise reduction. I can only compare it to LR, I've not tried DxO, but I have heard it was a strong point they had.
> 
> ...




Just my opinion but I wouldn't even use the detail panel in the develop module in ON1 to do any noise reduction or sharpening.

I've learned that the "separate" noise reduction and sharpening panels in EFFECTS works like about 100% better. There's a ton more options and you can also use a dropper to do selected areas in the image to adjust noise or sharpening. 

You can also stack the noise and sharpening panels in Effects and target multiple areas in your image differently! 
Much BETTER! than the detail panel in Develop!


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## zim (Apr 29, 2018)

Durf said:


> Just my opinion but I wouldn't even use the detail panel in the develop module in ON1 to do any noise reduction or sharpening.
> 
> I've learned that the "separate" noise reduction and sharpening panels in EFFECTS works like about 100% better. There's a ton more options and you can also use a dropper to do selected areas in the image to adjust noise or sharpening.
> 
> ...



This sounds really useful and well designed, the way I tend to work at the moment is to use prime to globally clean up an image then spot clean using Affinity which has really good clean-up tools as well but having the flexibility whilst working with the RAW before conversion has clear advantages.


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## cayenne (Apr 30, 2018)

Durf said:


> > Ok, gotcha!!
> >
> > Well, with On1 so far, I'm up in the air as to the noise reduction. I can only compare it to LR, I've not tried DxO, but I have heard it was a strong point they had.
> >
> ...



OH yeah, I see that noise effect now....didn't know about the dropper, etc....that sounds similar to how the "neat" noise filter for video works....

I'll give this a try, thanks for the pointer!!!

C


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## eml58 (May 1, 2018)

cayenne said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > I've found the NIK free NR when applied selectively to the background colors (maybe 150%) to be quite amazing. it is however quite tedious to do this because I make sure the subject is receiving very little (maybe 10%), so the shot must deserve the treatment.
> ...



Tried lots, including the NIK software, currently using Topaz Labs Denoise, so far I've found it's the best I've tried with one exception.

http://www.topazlabs.com/denoise

I also have Imaginomics software for Portraits etc, the denoise software in this is absolutely the best, but, it's quite expensive compared to say Topaz Denoise.

http://www.imagenomic.com

Having said that if you look at Topaz Denoise and Imaginomics Denoise as standalone, they cost the same.


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## scottkinfw (May 1, 2018)

I'm just getting started with it. I have avoided PS due to the learning curve. I'm efficient and pretty good with LR.

That said, I'm for the Anthony Morganti link. I am finding the program a bit difficult, so hopefully, I'll be up and running in no time.

Scott


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## cayenne (May 1, 2018)

scottkinfw said:


> I'm just getting started with it. I have avoided PS due to the learning curve. I'm efficient and pretty good with LR.
> 
> That said, I'm for the Anthony Morganti link. I am finding the program a bit difficult, so hopefully, I'll be up and running in no time.
> 
> Scott



Well, like anything, it just takes a bit of time working with the tool, research (youtube is your friend) and sweat.

But once you get the concepts down, most any tool works in a similar fashion.

As for PS....well, that thing is a powerhouse of what you can do with it, but for about 98% at least of what most photographers do, a LR or ON1 RAW type tool does most of the work, and your PS or Affinity Photo apps, are there for more "heavy lifting", doing heavy composites, sky replacements or very difficult masking of such, or really difficult retouching and object removal, etc.

It is definitely worth learning, IMHO...and can take your creativity to new levels, but like you said, there is a learning curve.

But its a fun one.


I got interested in PS type stuff back when CreativeLive was a fun new thing. They still have lots of daily free content you might go check out for all types of applications like we're discussing here.

Anyway, hope to hear back from you on how it is going!!!

cayenne


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## Durf (May 1, 2018)

cayenne said:


> scottkinfw said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just getting started with it. I have avoided PS due to the learning curve. I'm efficient and pretty good with LR.
> ...



This is what I'm really liking ON1 for, that is, On1 is taking the few tools many photographers use in Photoshop and putting them into one program. ON1 is no photoshop but the few tools I use in photoshop are right there in ON1 for me to use such as sky replacement, layers etc etc. Lots of "heavy lifting" so to speak can all be done right in On1 and I do believe later this year when I'm due to renew my Lightroom/Photoshop subscription, I won't do it and probably just be using ON1 only from that day forward as a stand alone photo editor.

I'm finding myself right now using ON1 more than Lightroom most of the time and Lightroom more and more is just becoming a photo importer and organizer only.....Adobe Lightroom is quickly becoming too expensive just to be an image importer and organizer. 

ADDED: Just to note also if you are using both Lightroom and ON1 and creating sidecar files in ON1.....is that if you move files around in your catalog in Lightroom that the ON1 sidecar files will not "tag and drag" with the file. I learned this the hard way and had a major mess (still do) with ON1 sidecars.


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## cayenne (May 1, 2018)

Durf said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > scottkinfw said:
> ...


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## Durf (May 1, 2018)

cayenne said:


> Durf said:
> 
> 
> > cayenne said:
> ...



Yes, I've looked at all that, this last update really change the game for me. They have it to where you can do meta data presents on import too. I'm almost there on board with them to where I can use them for a stand alone editor. I'm hoping this next update will have some bug fixes I've had issues with and also a history trail of edits to go to-fall back on....and a few other things.


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## eml58 (May 2, 2018)

scottkinfw said:


> I'm just getting started with it. I have avoided PS due to the learning curve. I'm efficient and pretty good with LR.
> 
> That said, I'm for the Anthony Morganti link. I am finding the program a bit difficult, so hopefully, I'll be up and running in no time.
> 
> Scott



Hi Scott,
Have a look here if you haven't already.

https://www.youtube.com/user/onOneSoftwareU

Its worth paying the extra for on1 Plus, allows access to more info on tutorials.


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## scottkinfw (May 2, 2018)

cayenne said:


> scottkinfw said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just getting started with it. I have avoided PS due to the learning curve. I'm efficient and pretty good with LR.
> ...


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## scottkinfw (May 2, 2018)

eml58 said:


> scottkinfw said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just getting started with it. I have avoided PS due to the learning curve. I'm efficient and pretty good with LR.
> ...


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## Durf (May 2, 2018)

This is just a simple snapshot image that I took on my porch with the 6D2 using the Tamron 45mm f/1.8 Lens, shot at f/1.8.

I messed around with this photo for a little while in Lightroom and was just about to delete it because Lightroom hit it's limits with it and I just couldn't tweek it to my liking......it really wasn't anything special and was just another rather boring shot.

At the last moment before deleting it I instead exported it to ON1 and started playing with it in Effects, applied some filters to it, did a little selected editing, and in perhaps 5 minutes or so I turned this rather boring photo in to a somewhat work of art in my opinion. 

I'm sure I could of did something like this in Photoshop but honestly, I don't know how to use Photoshop all that well......Instead I did this rather quickly and easily in ON1. 

It still may be a boring photo for many but for me in 5 minutes using ON1 I turned something I was about to toss in to the garbage in to a keeper I find rather unique.


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## stevelee (May 2, 2018)

Durf said:


> At the last moment before deleting it I instead exported it to ON1 and started playing with it in Effects, applied some filters to it, did a little selected editing, and in perhaps 5 minutes or so I turned this rather boring photo in to a somewhat work of art in my opinion.



I really like it. The composition and juxtaposition are great. For my tastes, the effects might be a bit overdone, if you can get those same textures a little more subtly. The choice of black and white is great. I might have even liked the regular picture in a contrasty black and white with little or no use of effects. It's probably a case of a picture that works well in several different incarnations. And you had fun and maybe even learned something in the process. Thanks for sharing.


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## Durf (May 2, 2018)

stevelee said:


> Durf said:
> 
> 
> > At the last moment before deleting it I instead exported it to ON1 and started playing with it in Effects, applied some filters to it, did a little selected editing, and in perhaps 5 minutes or so I turned this rather boring photo in to a somewhat work of art in my opinion.
> ...



Thanks, I think I was going for the charcoal drawing look....

I did tone it down some and my interest went away with the image and I went back to cookin!. 

I do kind of over bake certain photos I process, reckon it's a bit of my style with certain images. I've got a couple flower images I over-cooked and they look just like oil paintings (Van Gogh type).

Then there's some images I do very little or nothing too....


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## Jack Douglas (May 2, 2018)

When you move away from what nature delivers naturally the likes and dislikes are all over the map. It reminds me of the general consensus, as kids, that "long haired" music was garbage. Now, to a large extent it's the reverse, which is partly a taste shift but also relates to being much more educated in music. As Ricki said, "you can't please everyone so you've gotta please yourself". Still, it's fun to hear all opinions.

One thing for sure ON1 RAW is headed in the right direction and gaining traction.

Jack


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## Durf (May 11, 2018)

ON1 Photo RAW 2018 is having a major update coming in a few weeks or so (Late June).



> *"We are incredibly excited to announce the new ON1 Photo RAW 2018.5 is coming in late June. Version 2018.5 will be a significant update and includes a massive boost in overall performance, fixes for user reported issues and new key features such as LUTs, camera profiles, and more."
> *
> *Note: Version 2018.5 will be a free update for owners of ON1 Photo RAW 2018.*


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## scottkinfw (May 12, 2018)

Durf said:


> This is just a simple snapshot image that I took on my porch with the 6D2 using the Tamron 45mm f/1.8 Lens, shot at f/1.8.
> 
> I messed around with this photo for a little while in Lightroom and was just about to delete it because Lightroom hit it's limits with it and I just couldn't tweek it to my liking......it really wasn't anything special and was just another rather boring shot.
> 
> ...



Great pic!
Good thing you didn't delete!

Scott


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## cayenne (Aug 13, 2018)

Just a quick update here.
To answer the last post...I agree with you the content aware of On1 isn't super strong, HOWEVER, I consider On1 RAW to be the equivalent of LR and I don't find LR's content aware to be much better.

For heavy lifting stuff like that, I tend to the in the Adobe world you do use PS, but for me, I've been using Affinity Photo, and I think it's content aware and smart erase, etc...is on par and in some cases superior to PS.

As for On1 RAW.....I've been using it a lot. I like a lot of things, but it seems to be a bit SLOOOOW. One of the last updates made it so slow on my mac, I couldn't hardly use it.

I contacted their customer support and was surprised they were so quick and responsive!!

They said they had seen problems with older macs, and they sent me a dropbox link to a working internal copy of On1...I installed it as an update and it significantly helped speed.

A later office update came out very soon after and it seems to have improved a bit more.

It is still a little slower than I'd like, but then again, LR5 would tend to get bogged down at times too, and I've heard LR6 had some problems there too, but I've not had first hand experience with that.

Anyway, On1 RAW is back to workable for me and I REALLY love the filters and the masking on it in the RAW workflow are helping me get some great images out.

So far, I'm sticking with them.....

More later as I use it even more.

HTH,

cayenne


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## snappy604 (Aug 14, 2018)

yeah bought ON1 (sale on for a few more days?).. Seems powerful so far, I can do most things I could do on LR with it, but there is a lot more I need to sit down and learn. I can see what you mean about slow, sometimes seems to chug... but there is a new patch (newer than 2018.5), going to see if it improves.

though to be clear, it seems like it was a worthwhile purchase, especially on sale. Being able to do most LR stuff is good... its hehe having to learn beyond it that is causing me headaches

- edit - speed seems fine now. Slowly figuring out its capabilities. I already can do most of my LR functions + some Photoshop ones. Had some puzzling episodes with noise levels when using camera profiles, but it seemed to reduce.. not sure if I changed techniques or it required a catchup processing. Seems to do a fast process and then a slower refinement. Might be a slow drive. History.. seems to lack it and it makes duplicating things a bit harder. Puzzling. Otherwise seems like a very capable product. Some of the masking techniques built in are intriguing for refined local adjustments.


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## cayenne (Aug 15, 2018)

snappy604 said:


> yeah bought ON1 (sale on for a few more days?).. Seems powerful so far, I can do most things I could do on LR with it, but there is a lot more I need to sit down and learn. I can see what you mean about slow, sometimes seems to chug... but there is a new patch (newer than 2018.5), going to see if it improves.
> 
> though to be clear, it seems like it was a worthwhile purchase, especially on sale. Being able to do most LR stuff is good... its hehe having to learn beyond it that is causing me headaches
> 
> - edit - speed seems fine now. Slowly figuring out its capabilities. I already can do most of my LR functions + some Photoshop ones. Had some puzzling episodes with noise levels when using camera profiles, but it seemed to reduce.. not sure if I changed techniques or it required a catchup processing. Seems to do a fast process and then a slower refinement. Might be a slow drive. History.. seems to lack it and it makes duplicating things a bit harder. Puzzling. Otherwise seems like a very capable product. Some of the masking techniques built in are intriguing for refined local adjustments.




Yeah, I'm REALLY getting into doing the luminosity filtering for adjustments!! I'm working on some concert shots, some outdoors and some areas got a bit blown out and it nice to be able to target adjustments JUST for those areas....set the luminosity mask and then use the controls to really tune it to just the areas you like.

I"ve been adapting my LR catalog methods of filesystem naming, etc...to the ON1 RAW methods, for import, working directories, etc.

Its a bit of a learning curve, but isn't rocket surgery......and hey, it's always fun to learn new things and new skills, eh?

No application is perfect, but I do enjoy On1 so far, I like that their customer support is responsive and helpful. 

Right now, my main complaint is, they don't have a lens profile for my Canon 11-24 L lens....but they gave me info to link to a site where I can submit shots from it, and they will use that to create the lens profile and include it in an update.

I'm planning i the near future to go take those calibration shots and submit them.

cayenne


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## Durf (Aug 15, 2018)

cayenne said:


> Yeah, I'm REALLY getting into doing the luminosity filtering for adjustments!! I'm working on some concert shots, some outdoors and some areas got a bit blown out and it nice to be able to target adjustments JUST for those areas....set the luminosity mask and then use the controls to really tune it to just the areas you like.
> 
> I"ve been adapting my LR catalog methods of filesystem naming, etc...to the ON1 RAW methods, for import, working directories, etc.
> 
> ...



That's all I use for my go to and as a stand alone now is ON1, its quite fun and relaxing to use for sure. (when it's working correctly). These last couple of updated versions really were quite chaotic and frustrating for me but support got my copy of Photo RAW back running decently so I can get back to editing.

I did end up buying Affinity and will slowly learn it and use it as a back up if needed. (and for things ON1 can't do).

Anyways, I've used several raw editors and I totally like ON1 the best.


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## snappy604 (Aug 16, 2018)

not sure if it was the last patch, but got some weird glitches where cropping it kept zooming in and not cropping. Tried closing out and opening again and it did it for a bit longer and then stopped. Some changes seem to generate a fair bit of noise, which for some reason noise reduction seems weak on. LR seems to handle it fine, so it's puzzling. Otherwise it's definitely a viable alternative for subscription model. Not ready to ditch LR 6 yet, but 90% of way there.


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## snappy604 (Aug 16, 2018)

I see why noise levels were high. Detail slider is opposite of what I expected. The more you slide it to right, the more smoothing it does, think it's opposite to LR. 
Anyways I was able to do a pretty fine job on this Airbus A380  .. this is 100% on On1, including exporting with watermark etc.


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## cayenne (Aug 16, 2018)

snappy604 said:


> I see why noise levels were high. Detail slider is opposite of what I expected. The more you slide it to right, the more smoothing it does, think it's opposite to LR.
> Anyways I was able to do a pretty fine job on this Airbus A380  .. this is 100% on On1, including exporting with watermark etc.
> View attachment 179723




Wow....nice looking shot!!!

C


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## Click (Aug 16, 2018)

Beautiful. Excellent shot, snappy604.


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## Durf (Aug 18, 2018)

Here's a before and after shot of an old car image that I took this morning (a rather bad shot) but, I fixed it up in ON1 Photo RAW a little while ago....


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## snappy604 (Aug 18, 2018)

ok.. so for some reason I get way more noise produced with On1 when bringing up shadows or reducing light levels or even applying the camera profile vs the default than I do with LR. using a canon 80d. Its my biggest drawback and maybe it's just how I do this. I was able to work some of the noise levels down, but still not as good as with LR.. any suggestions by those now familiar with the product?


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## snappy604 (Aug 18, 2018)

nicely done on the car btw, looks great.


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## Durf (Aug 18, 2018)

snappy604 said:


> ok.. so for some reason I get way more noise produced with On1 when bringing up shadows or reducing light levels or even applying the camera profile vs the default than I do with LR. using a canon 80d. Its my biggest drawback and maybe it's just how I do this. I was able to work some of the noise levels down, but still not as good as with LR.. any suggestions by those now familiar with the product?



I shot that old car with the 80D using a 70-300L lens at ISO 100 @ 70mm. (exposed slightly to the right)

I very seldom run in to noise issues with the 80D but I'm almost always shooting at low ISO's and very seldom underexposing. If I'm dealing with a lot of contrast/dark shadows I'll usually use my histogram and expose to the right. I've never noticed ON1 introducing more noise than LR, I use both software programs. (I totally like ON1 better)


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## snappy604 (Aug 18, 2018)

Durf said:


> I shot that old car with the 80D using a 70-300L lens at ISO 100 @ 70mm. (exposed slightly to the right)
> 
> I very seldom run in to noise issues with the 80D but I'm almost always shooting at low ISO's and very seldom underexposing. If I'm dealing with a lot of contrast/dark shadows I'll usually use my histogram and expose to the right. I've never noticed ON1 introducing more noise than LR, I use both software programs. (I totally like ON1 better)




do you use the camera profiles or the on1 ones? I rarely shoot at iso 100, often in low light, high movement situations


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## Durf (Aug 18, 2018)

snappy604 said:


> do you use the camera profiles or the on1 ones? I rarely shoot at iso 100, often in low light, high movement situations



I mostly just use the ON1 default profile. I do shoot at higher ISO when necessary and still very seldom have to deal with a lot of noise unless I get way up there like 1600 or higher (with 80D)

ADDED: I've noticed with shooting the 80D for over 2 years now that going above ISO 1600 is asking for noise in most types of images. My 6D2 is way better at higher ISO's than my 80D.


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## scottkinfw (Aug 19, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> I'm updated to ON1 RAW latest 2018 but still haven't had much time to use it. However, I have followed the updates that are based on user suggestions and they sure have been listening and pumping out improvements. I guess the question is, how competent their designers are.
> 
> It's interesting to see the suggestions and what is being looked at and implemented.
> 
> ...


You don't have to buy a new version every year. Once you buy, you own.
I'll upload some pics processed with OnOne


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 19, 2018)

scottkinfw said:


> You don't have to buy a new version every year. Once you buy, you own.
> I'll upload some pics processed with OnOne



For me it's always, "next winter I'll really spend time and learn ON1" and somehow I'm just too busy. The problem is my wildlife needs for processing are generally met very well with Canon DPP, especially since they added the feature that allows me to raise the exposure of an animal's eye typically 10 or 15%. Mind you, I'm probably an atypical CR person, given I don't do much landscape and have headache issues - taking pictures in the outdoors seems to reduce my headaches while processing them indoors seems to increase them. Scott, nothing beats wildlife photography in the great outdoors especially in regions such as your lovely photo.


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## Durf (Aug 19, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> For me it's always, "next winter I'll really spend time and learn ON1" and somehow I'm just too busy. The problem is my wildlife needs for processing are generally met very well with Canon DPP, especially since they added the feature that allows me to raise the exposure of an animal's eye typically 10 or 15%. Mind you, I'm probably an atypical CR person, given I don't do much landscape and have headache issues - taking pictures in the outdoors seems to reduce my headaches while processing them indoors seems to increase them. Scott, nothing beats wildlife photography in the great outdoors especially in regions such as your lovely photo.



If you are only using DPP you'd be in heaven with ON1. You could now just start using it and doing what you're doing in DPP and slowly start doing a little more and more to your images as you start getting use to ON1's tools. You will quickly learn how limited DPP is.....
ON1 is not really all that hard to learn. It took me a couple months of playing with it before I really started getting comfortable with it and diving in to all of it's tools. It's rather quite an amazing editor/processor.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 19, 2018)

Durf said:


> If you are only using DPP you'd be in heaven with ON1. You could now just start using it and doing what you're doing in DPP and slowly start doing a little more and more to your images as you start getting use to ON1's tools. You will quickly learn how limited DPP is.....
> ON1 is not really all that hard to learn. It took me a couple months of playing with it before I really started getting comfortable with it and diving in to all of it's tools. It's rather quite an amazing editor/processor.



I guess I qualify as a procrastinator! I know you're right.

Jack


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## Durf (Aug 21, 2018)

_Here's the latest update/download for ON1 Photo RAW 2018_


*ON1 Photo RAW 2018.5 Release Notes*

Version 2018.5 (12.5.3.5757)

Release Notes

August 20th, 2018

https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001800631


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## cayenne (Aug 22, 2018)

I like that they're coming out regularly and quickly with updates/patches as needed.


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## Durf (Aug 22, 2018)

cayenne said:


> I like that they're coming out regularly and quickly with updates/patches as needed.



Me too; this previous version/build caused me some major headaches for the last few weeks. I still can't use the cataloged folders feature even with this last build (2018.3.5757). But, everything else is working much better! I'm back to editing with less cussing!!!!!! LOL

I like ON1 so much I do NOT want to use anything else!

(I did buy Affinity though recently and am learning that) for backup just in case.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 26, 2018)

I downloaded the new version and just now took a few minutes to look at some RAW photos I took of a bird in January. The first thing that hit me was that the ON1 screen appeared darker and more saturated than what I'm used to. My reference of course is DPP, so I opened it up and displayed the same photos on my second monitor. Both monitors are calibrated and appear identical to my eyes so here I am with ON1 darker and DPP displaying a brighter/nicer rendition. I'd say more accurate based on the fact that the JPEGS I've produced using DPP have always appeared match what I was seeing RAW.

Is there something I've done or something that needs to be adjusted in ON1. Comments/help, please.

Edit: Dumb me, as soon as I went to show my wife it hit me that the DPP RAW had the shadows lifted! I did the same in ON1 and all is fine.

Jack


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 26, 2018)

Something I've requested in ON1 is that the sliders, once you click on them, should respond to the mouse wheel rather than simply being forced to slide them, which I find produces muscle tension after working on the computer a long time. I thought this was something they stated they were going to implement. Guess not, for now anyway.

Jack


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## Durf (Aug 26, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Something I've requested in ON1 is that the sliders, once you click on them, should respond to the mouse wheel rather than simply being forced to slide them, which I find produces muscle tension after working on the computer a long time. I thought this was something they stated they were going to implement. Guess not, for now anyway.
> 
> Jack



After I used ON1 for a little while and got used to it I got pretty fast with everything, I can pretty much edit a "regular" shot in just a few minutes using the basic panel and some filters; and even masking/brushing a little bit here and there. If I get into some deeper stuff using layers and several filters, making areas etc., I can still do a pretty deeply processed image in less than 10 minutes.

Once in a while I have an image I have to do a lot of work too but I rarely ever spend more than 30 minutes on a major edit. 

Once you get the hang of ON1 you can zip through editing.


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## dpc (Aug 26, 2018)

Used to use LR5. I’ve been using ON1 Photo RAW for several months. I use it pretty much daily. I like it a lot. I haven’t felt a need to use Lightroom for months. I tend to use DxO PhotoLab for RAW processing of my Canon files. I will then sometimes finish things off in ON1. I also use a Fuji camera and I do most of my post-processing with those files in ON1 (DxO doesn’t support Fuji cameras). The only issue I have with ON1 is it tends to be very slow, sometimes glacially slow. I think that’s my issue, though. I should upgrade my RAM. The base requirement is 4 GB, 8GB if used as a Photoshop plug-in, but 16 GB is recommended. There is a manual on the ON1 website (look in the support menu) as well as the YouTube video series. The best thing to do is download the trial and see if it meets your needs.


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## Don Haines (Aug 26, 2018)

I think I will download it and give it a try.... I am ready to give up on Lightroom...


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## Durf (Aug 26, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> I think I will download it and give it a try.... I am ready to give up on Lightroom...



I haven't used Lightroom except for a couple of times since about last March or April. My Adobe subscription comes due Nov 1st and I won't be renewing it. ON1 does everything I need it to do.

I never was very deep in to photoshop but with ON1 I've easily learned to work a lot more with layers and masking more than I ever did in photoshop. I'm sure photoshop is much more powerful but for what I do ON1 is more than capable and a lot easier to use than photoshop (for me anyways).

It so much easier just using one program only for everything......


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 26, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> I think I will download it and give it a try.... I am ready to give up on Lightroom...



Good luck Don. I have faith they'll keep improving.

Jack


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## cayenne (Aug 27, 2018)

Durf said:


> I haven't used Lightroom except for a couple of times since about last March or April. My Adobe subscription comes due Nov 1st and I won't be renewing it. ON1 does everything I need it to do.
> 
> I never was very deep in to photoshop but with ON1 I've easily learned to work a lot more with layers and masking more than I ever did in photoshop. I'm sure photoshop is much more powerful but for what I do ON1 is more than capable and a lot easier to use than photoshop (for me anyways).
> 
> It so much easier just using one program only for everything......




In addition to On1 RAW, you might look into the great Affinity Photo application.

While On1 RAW is the equivalent to LR.....AP is the equivalent to PS....for doing more intense things like compositing and really difficult background cleanup and cutting things out, etc.

It too is a purchase and not rental like the Adobe model.

It is a great piece of software and the price is very reasonable.

HTH,

Cayenne


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## Durf (Aug 28, 2018)

cayenne said:


> In addition to On1 RAW, you might look into the great Affinity Photo application.
> 
> While On1 RAW is the equivalent to LR.....AP is the equivalent to PS....for doing more intense things like compositing and really difficult background cleanup and cutting things out, etc.
> 
> ...



I think ON1 is not the equivalent to LR, I think ON1 blows LR away! 

I just bought Affinity and am learning it now. I got it for 34.99 a couple weeks ago. I'm still gonna use ON1 as my main go to and just slowly get used to Affinity and see if it'll fit in to my work flow or just use it as a back up if ON1 stops working for some reason or another....


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## cayenne (Sep 6, 2018)

Durf said:


> I think ON1 is not the equivalent to LR, I think ON1 blows LR away!
> 
> I just bought Affinity and am learning it now. I got it for 34.99 a couple weeks ago. I'm still gonna use ON1 as my main go to and just slowly get used to Affinity and see if it'll fit in to my work flow or just use it as a back up if ON1 stops working for some reason or another....




I use On1/AP in the same way I did LR/PS.

I do about 98.9999% of my work in LR....basic development, etc...everything I can possibly do in RAW.

For those more rare other cases, I used PS, for compositing, heavy retouch, and object/people removal....things that need more heavy lifting.
I'd develop in LR and then send it over to PS for the heavy lifting parts.

I do the same thing now with ON1 and Affinity Photo....

Most in On1...and heavy lifting I send over to AP.

It would be nice if they were just a little more integrated like LR/PS is....but that's not that big of a work around....

C


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## Durf (Sep 25, 2018)

I am totally looking forward to this new updated version!!!!! It has many things I've been wanting now that I only use ON1 as a stand alone processor......they are stepping up their game big time!!!!

*



ON1 Photo RAW 2019 Announcement - Live Event Recording

Click to expand...

*


> Dan Harlacher and Dylan Kotecki show what is coming for ON1 Customers in ON1 Photo RAW 2019. In this previously recorded live event, Dan and Dylan will walk you through the new features, tools, and layout of ON1 Photo RAW 2019. ON1 Photo RAW 2019 will be available mid-November 2018.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rGb3if2m3g&t=775s


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## cayenne (Sep 27, 2018)

Durf said:


> I am totally looking forward to this new updated version!!!!! It has many things I've been wanting now that I only use ON1 as a stand alone processor......they are stepping up their game big time!!!!




Yep, I too am quite excited about this new version.

I'm a Pro member too, and will likely try the early release in Oct they mentioned. I wasn't going to do the Pro again, since it covers the next years release, but I have found it valuable for all the learning tools, presets and other "goodies" they give with the Pro annual membership. I may do Pro one more year, and after that, just hang back...unless On1 really keeps making extreme updates like this one....

Layers in a pure RAW workflow...with masking, etc....that to me is truly the type of upgrade and advancement that I don't think you'll ever see from an Adobe subscription on their tools.

With their subscription model, they really don't have much incentive to push forward and innovate in a meaningful manner.

On1, with their purchase model....have been pushing and innovating, and by this method, they do make me want to open my wallet again.

C


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