# Upgrade from 6D from 450D



## Haydn1971 (Dec 29, 2012)

Been pondering a change to full frame for a while now, the 6D has whet my appetite, but in order to fund, I'm proposing to sell a fair bit of crop kit, specifically my current 450D and kit 18-55mm lens, my 15-85mm, my 10-22mm and possibly my very underused 70-300 IS - which would net me about £1000-1200, leaving me to find about £450 to buy a 6D body.

I'm left with the 135mm L and 50mm 1.4, but I'm wondering about a wide option, my local camera shop has a second hand 28-135mm for £125, would I be selling myself short and better off with a cheapish wide prime, 28mm 1.8 perhaps ? Looking at my shots in the last year, my 135mm & 50mm have been used most, I'm using my 15-85 and 10-22 mostly at their widest.

I'm keen to slowly build a good lens set, interested in the yet to be released 24-70 f4, plus the 8-15 in due course, I'm not shooting much beyond 135mm as I generally shot portraits, plants and landscape, but my lingering thought right now is just how much gain will I get from the upgrade, specifically in terms of light collecting performance, imagine noise and colour rendition over my 450D

Go on, help me press the button - and no buy a 5DIII pundits thanks ;-)


----------



## captainkanji (Dec 29, 2012)

I went from the 7D to 6D. The jump in ISO performance is amazing from APS-C. I took it out the first night I got it and was stunned at how good 6400 looks. I don't shoot sports so I'm not concerned about the AF issue that has 5D3 owners and Nikon fanboys in a fit. Being able to shoot FF without selling my organs is a plus. I'm sure you'll be deluged with calls to buy a D600, which is fine, but Canon glass is where it's at ;D. Whichever you choose, you'll be so glad you went FF.


----------



## mb66energy (Dec 29, 2012)

What about a second hand 2.8 / 24 non-IS? ... if you do not need the f/1.8

Here a comparison of both lenses at f/2.8 on the digital picture:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=246&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=253&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2

This lens is sharp, very contrasty, has fast (conventional) AF, is very compact and equals the 15mm in terms of APS-C. The new version of this lens might help to put some of these underestimated lenses on the used gear market.

WARNING: I have used the lens exclusively on APS-C cameras! The full time manual of modern USM lenses has its advantages!

Best - Michael


----------



## Albi86 (Dec 29, 2012)

If you mainly shoot portraits save yourself a lot of money and frustration and buy a good prime. My suggestion in order of price and (my personal) preference:

1) Canon 135mm L
2) Sigma 85mm 
3) Canon 100mm L macro
4) Canon 100mm f/2
5) Canon 85mm f/1.8

Among the best there are certainly the 85mm L and the Zeiss 100mm makro-planar, but they really cost a lot. Sigma 85mm is the most versatile of the lot. Great for low-light, with a focal length that works well also indoors and as a general purpose lens.


----------



## traveller (Dec 29, 2012)

Have you considered the 5D MkII (£1249 at WEX) instead of the 6D, or buying grey market (6D = £1429 @ DigitalRev) to save a few quid so that you can afford a better lens? 

I wouldn't bother with the 28-135 unless you're sure that you will not be shooting below f/8 (preferably f/11 below 50mm), as it just isn't sharp in the corners, especially on the wide end. I would suggest that the 24-105L would be more suited to a 20MP class full frame body. 

I'd say that the 17-40L would be ideal for your landscape work; you can pick it up for £500 used/grey market. If you really want a prime, then I would personally avoid the Canon non-L lenses below 35mm, as they all have serious flaws. The exception to this would be the new 24mm and 28mm f/2.8 IS primes, but I still think that these are a touch pricey for what they offer. The other budget option would be the Samyang primes, but I don't think that these have a distributor here in the UK, which would mean buying from an importer. 

I don't want to put you off, but I'm not convinced that this is the best time to be buying the 6D, as I think that there's another £100 or so to come off the price in the next month or two. Of course, I could be wrong and you might be willing to pay the extra to have the camera now, but I thought I'd mention it as you seem to be on a tight budget.


----------



## Haydn1971 (Dec 29, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> If you mainly shoot portraits save yourself a lot of money and frustration and buy a good prime. My suggestion in order of price and (my personal) preference:
> 
> 1) Canon 135mm L



If you read the OP, I own the 135mm L and intend to keep it... I also intend to keep my 50mm 1.4 too


----------



## Haydn1971 (Dec 29, 2012)

traveller said:


> I don't want to put you off, but I'm not convinced that this is the best time to be buying the 6D, as I think that there's another £100 or so to come off the price in the next month or two. Of course, I could be wrong and you might be willing to pay the extra to have the camera now, but I thought I'd mention it as you seem to be on a tight budget.



Fair comment on future price reductions. I'm more constrained by a wife led budget to be fair ;-)

I'm of the opinion that the 5DII has had its day when compared to the 6D, regardless of the price difference, but I'm not that advanced a photographer to justify the extra cost of the better AF that that the 5DIII brings, nor want to pay the premium difference - although that could change in the shop when I play with both.

Yes, I have considered Digital Rev, I do like the confidence of buying local, just in case something goes wrong - I like the odd risk, but buying grey market isn't for me at this time.


----------



## Albi86 (Dec 29, 2012)

Haydn1971 said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > If you mainly shoot portraits save yourself a lot of money and frustration and buy a good prime. My suggestion in order of price and (my personal) preference:
> ...



Sorry, I understood that you were considering buying it. Sounded like a bit of an uncomfortable focal length for an APSC portrait lens 

Going wide is much easier, especially because most of times you want to stop down to f/5.6-8. The 24-105 is certainly an option, but with primes you most likely get better IQ and lower prices.

The new Voigtländer 28/2.8 seems a very nice lens. Cheaper options are old Nikkor Ai primes such as 24/2.8 and 28/2.8 (to be adapted). Samyang 14/2.8 is also extremely well regarded.

They're all manual focus only, but it's hard to miss the focus at the intended combination of focal length and aperture


----------



## aalbert (Dec 29, 2012)

I just upgraded from a 550D to the 6D..... World of difference when it comes to ISO performance, speed, overall quality. 

I am able to focus and take reasonably usable shots in a room dark enough that you can barely see through the viewfinder - my 550D would have just sat there and racked the lens back and forth. In the ISO department, my personal limit on the 550D was 1600, and I really didn't like going past 800 - with the 6D, it seems like I can go 6400 and still have better IQ than the 550D, and in a pinch go higher if I can't use flash (I do a lot of band photography - dark is the status quo). I can see where the 6D could be lacking in sports photography, but in my case it would be more from the lack of the 1.6 magnifier than auto focus behavior - if I could shoot motorcycle races with a 550D (70-200 f4), which has an even more archaic autofocus system, and a slightly slower framerate, then the only disadvantage I have going in, is the lack of reach (so maybe next Christmas a 100-400 will call my name).

It has been a few months since I borrowed a friends 5D mkII, but from what I recall, the shutter seems quieter on the 6D, focusing was faster with 6D, and ISO performance seems to better with the 6D (I compared some 6400 shots from each, there was a lot more noise on the 5DII). 

I know that some people say the 6D is a plastic toy - I wonder if they have even held one ? It feels solid enough to me, and with a battery grip and 24-105mm lens, it could be used to bludgeon a mugger.

The 28-135 is a reasonable kit lens (hey they packaged it with the 7D - can't be total crap). I used it a lot on my 550D for kids parties, machinegun shoots (lots of brass comes out the side at a high rate of speed - don't want that smacking my L lenses), and bar shoots. The image quality was reasonable enough for those situations, and the dollars invested in the lens were low enough that damage wouldn't ruin the month. Was it as bright and nice to use as the L glass - no - but it served its purpose.

Am I happy with my 6D - Yes.... and in all honesty, I might just grab a 7D mkII or 70D in the future for motorcycle / boat racing photography, but that would mainly be for the extra reach with whatever lenses I have.


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 29, 2012)

450D to 6D -- You will see huge improvement in higher ISO. Your photos will look much cleaner of course.

6D + 50f1.4 + 135L is good a combo. Your 50mm will be more friendly to shoot with on FF vs crop. For the WA lens, I would go with 17-40 if you plan to shoot smaller apertures (f8-11).

Have fun with your new toy(s)


----------



## Haydn1971 (Dec 29, 2012)

Button pushed... I'm sat waiting for my battery to charge as I type ;-)

I'm like an excited kid !!!

Just need to sell my crop kit now... A few months ago I'd have wanted to keep the 450D as a backup, for use with my 10-22 & 70-300, but I'd rather concentrate on one camera and get the most out of that. My cousin said she would like my 10-22 anyways, so that's a few hundred quid towards the camera for starters.


----------



## Haydn1971 (Dec 29, 2012)

Dylan777 said:


> 6D + 50f1.4 + 135L is good a combo. Your 50mm will be more friendly to shoot with on FF vs crop. For the WA lens, I would go with 17-40 if you plan to shoot smaller apertures (f8-11).



Yeah, set the kit 24-105 at 50mm in the shop today, looks just about perfect for me. I'm warm to the 17-40, my local camera shop has had a few second hand ones in the last year, so I'll keep a look out. I've also a 1.4x extender and a lensbaby for a little extra flexibility, plus the 70-300 depending on if I keep it or not.



Dylan777 said:


> Have fun with your new toy(s)



I'm sure I will !


----------



## tiger82 (Dec 29, 2012)

I thought the Canon TCs only work on 100mm and above with f/5.6 or larger apetures.


----------



## Haydn1971 (Dec 29, 2012)

tiger82 said:


> I thought the Canon TCs only work on 100mm and above with f/5.6 or larger apetures.



A 135mm L perhaps ?


----------



## noncho (Dec 29, 2012)

You said that you have used wide angle on APS-C, so here is my cheap wide suggestion - Samyang 14mm f/2.8(plus walk around zoom that you mentioned).


----------



## CharlieB (Dec 29, 2012)

Haydn1971 said:


> Been pondering a change to full frame for a while now, the 6D has whet my appetite, but in order to fund, I'm proposing to sell a fair bit of crop kit, specifically my current 450D and kit 18-55mm lens, my 15-85mm, my 10-22mm and possibly my very underused 70-300 IS - which would net me about £1000-1200, leaving me to find about £450 to buy a 6D body.
> 
> I'm left with the 135mm L and 50mm 1.4, but I'm wondering about a wide option, my local camera shop has a second hand 28-135mm for £125, would I be selling myself short and better off with a cheapish wide prime, 28mm 1.8 perhaps ? Looking at my shots in the last year, my 135mm & 50mm have been used most, I'm using my 15-85 and 10-22 mostly at their widest.
> 
> ...



No advice... just thoughts.

First thought is - I'm sure glad I didn't invest in EF-S lenses... (and I say that again 1000x under my breath).
Second - having had a EOS400, the difference between that and the 7D are "ok noticeable", but between it and the 5D2, is night and day. You'll be blown away with the 6D.

Third, if you're not using the long zoom, sell it. Ok thats advice... sorry.

Fourth, maybe get that 28/1.8, use it now, as you sell off some kit. Watch for the 6D prices to come down. Its only been out for about six weeks... prices WILL fall at the dealer level - in terms of instant rebate, or kitting or such. MAP pricing prohibits some discounts, but... you can often get a small kit - with good essentials - for the same as the MAP price, etc etc... you just have to shop and keep an eye open for deals.

And finally... even tho the 7D isn't a quantum leap in image quality over the 450D, it is a quantum leap in everything else. Right now, I'd not trade the 7D at all - period. It does too much too well to even consider it. I'm saying this because you can get a 7D now for $999US a super deal, in case the 6D trade-off/trade-up doesn't work out.


----------



## Haydn1971 (Dec 29, 2012)

Too late Charlie, I've bought the 6D and yep, although I've only used in in the living room tonight so far, I'm pretty pleased so far. User controls aren't much of a change from my old 450D, the 50mm is just perfect, the extra bits like 9 shot bracketing are promising, the GPS & Wifi ? Well so far, I'm not seeing much value in them.

As for investing in EF-S, so far, I'm looking at selling my 10-22 & 15-85 for about 80% of what I paid for them, for the use I've had, I don't see it as an unwise investment and fully recommend both lenses to anyone stepping up from kit lenses. Yep, the 70-300mm isn't used much, I thought I'd need it when I set out on my DSLR journey, but generally prefer wide and portrait lengths.

What do I want now ? I've got a few ideas, but ain't going to go rushing in, a 24m prime would be nice, perhaps the 24-70mm f4 when it comes out (near macro and sharpness), also fancy a 8-15mm in time... That's my next few years mapped out, but might see what comes up on the second hand pages of my local camera shop, grab a bargain ;-)


----------



## emag (Dec 29, 2012)

28-135 would be a disservice to the 6D. A mediocre lens.


----------

