# Have you repaired your 50 Art?



## Viggo (Dec 16, 2014)

Hi guys!

Just wondering if anyone here have had AF issues with the Sigma 50 Art and had it successfully repaired, not swapped for a new?

Mine is getting worse and I'm at the very last of my patience with it, so last chance is to perhaps send it for repair.

Thanks!


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 16, 2014)

I thought you got your ART fixed ???


----------



## Eldar (Dec 16, 2014)

As you know Viggo, I returned no.1 for repair. Didn´t work. Returned it and got no.2, which was just as inconsistent. After countless attempts with the dock and in-camera AFMA I gave up and returned it. Apparently you just got one that lasted a bit longer. A pity, considering the optical quality of the lens, but out of focus is out of focus ...

Good luck!


----------



## Viggo (Dec 16, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I thought you got your ART fixed ???



I had one of the first ever available and it was useless, so I traded it in for a another copy which has been nice, but now it too has begun to be unstable. TBH I delete 97% of the shots due to missed focus. I've redone calibration with my new Hard Targets bought from Reikan Focal, and the AF consistency and calibration went without issues. But in real life I simply doesn't hit, and it's front and back at random, at any distance. I calibrated the 4 distances with focal and used the docking to set the values in the lens. Nothing works.

And I calibrated my 200 and it has extremely shallow dof, but it just can't miss, same with the 2470.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 16, 2014)

Eldar said:


> As you know Viggo, I returned no.1 for repair. Didn´t work. Returned it and got no.2, which was just as inconsistent. After countless attempts with the dock and in-camera AFMA I gave up and returned it. Apparently you just got one that lasted a bit longer. A pity, considering the optical quality of the lens, but out of focus is out of focus ...
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks, and yeah, agree 100%. Been there done that. It doesn't miss by quite as much as the others I've tried (35A and 50A) but it misses at least as often, pretty much always.


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 16, 2014)

Viggo said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > I thought you got your ART fixed ???
> ...


Wow...thanks for sharing.

I'm in need for 35mm fast prime. I guess I can cross the ART off my list for now.

EDIT: forgot to ask. Did you update any firmware to the bodies or lenses at all? Couldn't figure out why it works this week, but not other weeks ??? ??? ???


----------



## Eldar (Dec 16, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I'm in need for 35mm fast prime. I guess I can cross the ART off my list for now.


Dylan; Before you make your decision, try out the Zeiss 35mm f1.4, with an Ec-S focusing screen in your 1DX. Play with it for a while and I´m sure you will discover that manual focus is less of a problem than you would think!


----------



## Viggo (Dec 16, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



Last update I did was the 2.0.3 for the 1dx and that was before the 50A came out. I have noticed it started to miss a bit more, but since it's my absolutely most used lens, I didn't really check to see just how great the two Canon lenses were in comparison. But I bought the Reikan Hard Targets a couple of weeks ago and decided to recalibrate everything, both Canon lenses I pulled back 2-3 points and they are epic sharp and hits everything. The strange thing is that the 50A need a PLUS adjustment by 4-7 steps (??) and even going back to my old settings a testing
Literally several thousand test shots tells nothing, because it is not consistent at all..


----------



## wickidwombat (Dec 16, 2014)

viggo do you have access to a 5D3 you can test it on?

mine is still amazing easily the most consistant and accurate AF 50mm i've ever used
its blazingly good in servo too (but i only use the 5 center column points using servo)


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 16, 2014)

Eldar said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in need for 35mm fast prime. I guess I can cross the ART off my list for now.
> ...



Eldar,
I have to think about this. 

MF is something I always feel out of my comfort zone. Although I haven't try on 1DX with Ec-S, however, I did on A7 series with Canon and Zeiss A-mount lenses(focus peaking mode). The results were not on par. I'm sure is not the gear problem.


----------



## Eldar (Dec 17, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Eldar,
> I have to think about this.
> 
> MF is something I always feel out of my comfort zone. Although I haven't try on 1DX with Ec-S, however, I did on A7 series with Canon and Zeiss A-mount lenses(focus peaking mode). The results were not on par. I'm sure is not the gear problem.


Don´t be put off by having tried to manually focus AF lenses. A Zeiss is a totally different beast and a lot easier to focus.
Alternatively you only have one current option, the 35L. It is being bashed by the chart porn readers, but it is still producing beautiful images ... The Sigma Art could have been an alternative, if the AF was fixed.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 17, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> viggo do you have access to a 5D3 you can test it on?
> 
> mine is still amazing easily the most consistant and accurate AF 50mm i've ever used
> its blazingly good in servo too (but i only use the 5 center column points using servo)



I have only the 1dx, but even with only center point with or without expansion points in any Servo or One shot mode it's the same results. I'm seriously considering a 35 L or 50 L AGAIN... At least the 50 L is pretty consistent and can be calibrated without wearing out the shutter with testing.


----------



## filo64 (Dec 17, 2014)

Have not had the chance to test the 50 Art, but my 35 Art is dead on every time - without calibration - on my 6d and 5d mkIII. Am I just lucky?


----------



## filo64 (Dec 17, 2014)

My Tammy 24-70 IS only focusses correctly with the center AF points on my 5d mkIII, but the 35 Art works very fine indeed with off-center AF points.


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 17, 2014)

Nice timing for this thread!

Viggo, sorry to hear you are going through the aggravation, as you were enjoying the lens and had high hopes for it.

I just this morning reached out to a local lens renter to ask about his copy of the ef 50mm 1.2, as I'm seeing the value of in-focus dreamy over OOF sharp. I'll rent first and see if I can handle the focus shift for closer subjects, which is a big part of my style.

I have sharp and fast: Sigma 35mm Art, fantastic. Canon 85mm 1.2, ultimate. (Note that I actually sold an ef 35mm 1.4 after owning it for four months because it was not sharp and had the worst CA I've seen since my old Sureshot A-80. 'Course having come from Amazon, it might have gotten banged around, repacked, etc.)

As y'all might remember, I was another who got a 50mm Art with dodgy AF and sent it back thinking by now we'd have a firmware update or SOME response from Sigma other than, "Well, it is a particularly complex lens, and you really should buy the dock." (That from their tech support.)

So, worn down from waiting for Canon or Sigma to put out something perfect...


----------



## Viggo (Dec 17, 2014)

YuengLinger said:


> Nice timing for this thread!
> 
> Viggo, sorry to hear you are going through the aggravation, as you were enjoying the lens and had high hopes for it.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Yeah, I have enjoyed it so far, but ...

I sold the 50 L exactly because closer than 1-1.5m it's veeeeeery soft, to the point that if I used off center points I couldn't tell the difference between where it hit and the blurry parts, lol.

Called a service shop today and he asked the usual stuff, if it was constantly back or front focused. But when I explained that I use both the docking and Reikan Focal, he just said "ah, then we have some parts to change" so CLEARLY they are aware of the issue, and I already knew, but perhaps they have parts now that can make this go away finally. I REALLY like the lens for everything else, so fix the AF and it's completely epic.


----------



## NancyP (Dec 19, 2014)

I manually focus my Sigma 35 Art all the time, using the Eg-S screen or more often live view for critical focusing. MF is ok. I don't use AF a lot. I really like my 35 Art. I suspect I might like the 50 Art just as well, if I end up doing as much manual focusing with it. No, nothing can compete with a well-designed and perfectly lubricated manual focus only lens helicoid - the Oti must be heavenly if they are considerably smoother than the regular Distagons. Still, if I can manually focus the lowly 40 2.8 STM (a laughable procedure), I can make the Art 35 MF.


----------



## NancyP (Dec 19, 2014)

BTW, I am considering getting the 7D2, and would like to be able to efficiently do microfocus adjustment for my lenses. Could you recommend a good product? Is the Reikan FoCal straightforward? Or is it a bunch of fancy programming that is more trouble than just manually AFMA-ing a few lenses on one camera?

Lenses used are the EF 400 f/5.6L (+/- 1.4 x TC), EF 70-200 f/4 IS, and EF 180 f/3.5 macro (+/- 1.4x TC; don't laugh, I use this combo for 1:2 to 1:5 magnification shots of snakes, including venomous snakes). Also I imagine that I would work up the 35 Art, which sometimes serves as the "longish normal" lens on my current 60D when it isn't being the "wide-ish normal" on my 6D, and the EF-S 15-85, which is the casual walk-about lens.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 19, 2014)

NancyP said:


> BTW, I am considering getting the 7D2, and would like to be able to efficiently do microfocus adjustment for my lenses. Could you recommend a good product? Is the Reikan FoCal straightforward? Or is it a bunch of fancy programming that is more trouble than just manually AFMA-ing a few lenses on one camera?
> 
> Lenses used are the EF 400 f/5.6L (+/- 1.4 x TC), EF 70-200 f/4 IS, and EF 180 f/3.5 macro (+/- 1.4x TC; don't laugh, I use this combo for 1:2 to 1:5 magnification shots of snakes, including venomous snakes). Also I imagine that I would work up the 35 Art, which sometimes serves as the "longish normal" lens on my current 60D when it isn't being the "wide-ish normal" on my 6D, and the EF-S 15-85, which is the casual walk-about lens.



Unfortunately I can't use MF for my photography. 

Reikan Focal is very very easy to use. The "tricky" part is setting up properly. 

Use enough light, preferably a non-flickering light like the sun. Have absolutely even light and NO shine or reflection.

Buy the hard target from Reikan.

Have your camera bolted down as sturdy as humanly possible. 

Use the right distance.

It takes a bit of effort, but then you will get a value that works straight away. Just not the Sigma's. They run through the test without issues at all, it all looks great, start ahooting and you will spend thousands of shots trying to figure out the value while the lens misses back and front at complete random.


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 19, 2014)

NancyP, glad you are adept at MF! May you be so for decades to come.

Viggo, my lens-rental friend won't have the ef 50mm 1.2 L available until next week, but I'm telling him that I won't bother renting it. I spent hours looking at higher-rez samples on flicker, and I reread many, many reviews. I KNOW that it will be frustratingly soft for me even without a focus-shift issue considered.

I want to magically believe that the right photographer can make consistent magic with the 50L, but starting out with a soft center and VERY soft outer-area, even at 2.0, will not work for me.

The only Canon lens that has seriously disappointed me is the 35L, which I've already said I replaced with the Sigma 35 Art, a very reliable performer for me with AF and IQ. One other lens that I slowly came to see was not great was the original 16-35 2.8, but I've kept it for occasional indoor and other medium low-light shots, as it works very well still for faces centered in the frame.

I just see too much visual evidence that the 50L isn't for me. So now I am back to waiting, either for Sigma to make AF work on the Canon mount, or for Canon to put out the 50L II.

Hope your repair makes it perfect. Maybe Sigma are close to a widely released fix.


----------



## Ronak1003 (Dec 19, 2014)

Hi,

I'm new here so kindly forgive my ignorance. 

I sold my old system (5D Mark II + kit lens + nifty fifty) a while back in order to pursue a different art for a while. Am getting back to photography and have been researching the kit I want and am on the fence about the Sigmas - both the 35A & 50A. My camera will be a 5D Mark III and I've decided on buying only prime lenses. I foresee using the camera for general travel shots, landscapes & seascapes with an occasional astro when opportunity presents itself.

I'd like to know if these lenses exhibit the random front/back focusing problems only when using auto focus or its the same with manual too? I can't afford a Zeiss (non Otus as well) and if these lenses provide me with the IQ comparable to Otus at a fourth of the cost, I'm more than willing to ignore the auto focus and use manual full time. Since, I'll be using manual focus most often, should I invest in the sigma dock just to be able to do AFMA and try my luck with the AF as well?

Thank you for reading and hopefully helping me make the buying decision.


----------



## NancyP (Dec 19, 2014)

It doesn't take much to be adept at MF on tripod shots live view assisted. 
Thanks for the info on Reikan FoCal


----------



## Eldar (Dec 19, 2014)

Ronak1003 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new here so kindly forgive my ignorance.
> 
> ...


Manually focusing the Sigma lenses is a lot more difficult than focusing the Zeiss lenses! Unless you are willing to trust the AF system on the Sigma lenses, don´t buy them!


----------



## wickidwombat (Dec 19, 2014)

Viggo said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > viggo do you have access to a 5D3 you can test it on?
> ...


cant try it on another body in the shop?

its wierd mine was so far off out of the box but after calibration its been fine, sure it misses now and then but definitely not anything as bad as the canon 50 f1.4. I wonder if your new body firmware messed it up? can you try roll back the 1Dx firmware to the old version when it was working ok to trouble shoot it?


----------



## infared (Dec 19, 2014)

Hi ....(this will be little lengthy)...I have posted here before regarding the Sigma 50mm and the 35mm Art Lenses.
I own both and with some hesitation and quite a bit of attention to getting the lenses to perform consistently well.
I bought the 35mm Art first and I did not really test it at first...I was amazed by the sharpness. I am more an artistic photographer than I am a measurebator. ... I also bought the 50mm Art (when I could finally get my hands on one), and I was well aware of the focusing issues when I purchased that lens. I also bought a the Sigma Lens Dock when I bought the 50mm.
Here is how I test...I shoot specific images just for the testing and I will shoot a specific spot close and a specific spot much farther away. I repeat this a few times and look at my results. I use center focus points and edge points. I use a "Show Focus Points" Plug-in in LR so that I know exactly where I focused. (I will mention that both my "Show Focus Points" Plug-in and Canon's DPP show the focus point location on my computer screen slightly to the right of where I actually focused using the camera (5DIII). This is consist with every shot. There is a half to about 3/4 of a focus point shift from my camera to the two softwares I use on the computer???? (Does anyone else experience this?)
Anyway...My 1st 50mm Art was all over the place and I could not get it to focus consistently. After wasting hours of my life ...I returned the lens to B&H, explained the situation (which they were well aware of) and they gladly sent me another lens. The 2nd lens was MUCH more consistent....and needed just a slight bit of tweaking on the Sigma Lens Dock (I did not touch the focus adjustment in the camera). I have used the lens quite a bit and it is consistently accurate wide open...Any issues I have are to do with operator error...I think that this lens is just fantastic. (but I worry about it shifting because of all I have read.)
OK...the 35mm ...Needed a LOT of adjustment on the Dock +13 in all 4 zones. At least it was consistently of and I could have used the AFMA in the camera to straighten this out as well. I must say I am a little disturbed and how big this adjustment is. It leaves me uneasy. ...but the lens seems to perform consistently well now that I have taken the time to adjust it. 
Now ...I do not sit around with charts and..blah..blah blah... I use the lenses to go out and shoot images. ...and when I am shooting wide open I check my focus point occassionally and the lenses seem very accurate....and i just love the IQ...Especially for what I paid. 
Its a drag to have to do all of this work...but in my case I feel that it was worth it. Both these lenses are capable of creating really great and unique images!!!


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 20, 2014)

infared said:


> Hi ....(this will be little lengthy)...I have posted here before regarding the Sigma 50mm and the 35mm Art Lenses.
> I own both and with some hesitation and quite a bit of attention to getting the lenses to perform consistently well.
> I bought the 35mm Art first and I did not really test it at first...I was amazed by the sharpness. I am more an artistic photographer than I am a measurebator. ... I also bought the 50mm Art (when I could finally get my hands on one), and I was well aware of the focusing issues when I purchased that lens. I also bought a the Sigma Lens Dock when I bought the 50mm.
> Here is how I test...I shoot specific images just for the testing and I will shoot a specific spot close and a specific spot much farther away. I repeat this a few times and look at my results. I use center focus points and edge points. I use a "Show Focus Points" Plug-in in LR so that I know exactly where I focused. (I will mention that both my "Show Focus Points" Plug-in and Canon's DPP show the focus point location on my computer screen slightly to the right of where I actually focused using the camera (5DIII). This is consist with every shot. There is a half to about 3/4 of a focus point shift from my camera to the two softwares I use on the computer???? (Does anyone else experience this?)
> ...



So...those of us who have trouble with inconsistent AF and lousy AF off the center point just need to do more voodoo, be less demanding, and more understanding?

I'm not sure you've carefully read many of the posts.

I'm happy you were satisfied with your second copy of the 50. 

I'm hoping to hear great reports if Sigma fixes erratic AF with a firmware update.


----------



## infared (Dec 20, 2014)

YuengLinger said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > Hi ....(this will be little lengthy)...I have posted here before regarding the Sigma 50mm and the 35mm Art Lenses.
> ...



I read all the posts. I had a different experience. I had a lousy lens. I sent it back. I was able to get a better copy.
Not doing any vodoo. 
My photos look fantastic and are in focus where I want them to be. Just reporting my point of view, how I set up my camera and lenses, my experience and the results with MY equipment. I am a very technical guy. ...but I like to go out and shoot. The results are more than satisfactory...but that's me. Obviously other people have had different experiences. I have read many reports where photographers are having good experiences with both of these lenses, too.
I just love these lenses. They were just a bit of extra work to set up in my case.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 20, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...



I can absolutely guarantee it's not the body. The 2.0.3 firmware, as I wrote earlier, was a long time before the Sigma, so with the 50 art both the firmware of the lens and body has been the same. And it has worked great, but started to drift now. I did a test where I resat the lens to 0 and took some shots at +15 and -15 and a few values in between and it makes NO difference to sharpness of my shots. They miss and hit the same shots and are equally sharp.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 20, 2014)

Infrared: I fully understand how to calibrate. I have had FOUR art lenses and they all have the same issue, my second 50 art has been fantastic since April or May when I bought it. It was easy to calibrate and I just yesterday went through some picture from this summer when it was bolted to my camera and it is epic sharp and worked perfect.

It has now started with the same issue as the others. Dial in whatever afma values you want it doesn't matter. So it is something wrong with it.


----------



## infared (Dec 20, 2014)

Viggo said:


> Infrared: I fully understand how to calibrate. I have had FOUR art lenses and they all have the same issue, my second 50 art has been fantastic since April or May when I bought it. It was easy to calibrate and I just yesterday went through some picture from this summer when it was bolted to my camera and it is epic sharp and worked perfect.
> 
> It has now started with the same issue as the others. Dial in whatever afma values you want it doesn't matter. So it is something wrong with it.




Well after the dance I had to dance just to get two functioning lenses I can say that I don't feel completely trusting of them. I am going to carefully check my focus points in LR each time that I use them, just to see if they "wander". Thanks for the warning.


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 20, 2014)

infared said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Infrared: I fully understand how to calibrate. I have had FOUR art lenses and they all have the same issue, my second 50 art has been fantastic since April or May when I bought it. It was easy to calibrate and I just yesterday went through some picture from this summer when it was bolted to my camera and it is epic sharp and worked perfect.
> ...



It's just a little frustrating when somebody who does receive a good copy of a lens (or some other gear) starts accusing people who have genuine hardware/firmware problems of being "measurebators" or of not knowing "operator error" when it occurs.

I was lucky out of the box with my 35 Art, and I say to myself, "Thank goodness." I don't say all the other photographers complaining about it are just not quite as good as they should be.

Yes, we need to be honest with ourselves and others when evaluating gear and troubleshooting. We need to be logical. And I've been where you've been, infared, not understanding just how experienced and careful many of the contributors to this and other forums are. 

It is some aspect of human nature that corporations and politicians love to take advantage of, a brand loyalty reflex of some sort, or a tendency to see ourselves as more discerning. So we defend a product or a politician no matter what evidence is offered by others.

Note, I'm NOT trying to bring politics into this, I'm just using something outside the realm of gear to make my point that all of us can get defensive when we should be logical.

Rant over!


----------



## Viggo (Dec 20, 2014)

The BIG concern for me is if they fix it so it actually works again, how long before it fails again? I'm SO hoping for Canon to make the same exact lens but with the newest USM motor and algorithm's. I will take the 35 L II as an option :


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 20, 2014)

Viggo said:


> The BIG concern for me is if they fix it so it actually works again, how long before it fails again? I'm SO hoping for Canon to make the same exact lens but with the newest USM motor and algorithm's. I will take the 35 L II as an option :



+1


----------



## Mika (Dec 20, 2014)

I had some initial difficulties with 50A, but after service and calibration with the USB dock it has worked fine. Granted, the weather has not been photographic for two months here, but still. 

The 50A is far more reliable than EF 50/1.4 with the center focus point, and I trust my 5D outer focus points only on bright and sunny days anyways and when my object is not too close with about any objective I have.

What I recall is that the non-central focus points did not work well with 50A, but they don't either with EF50/1.4. 

It does make me wonder whether varying lighting conditions can throw the 50A focus calibration off. I do recall seeing that the results were slightly different when adjusted under room lighting and under sun light. The other thing I can think of could be repeated thermal expansion and contraction.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 20, 2014)

Mika said:


> I had some initial difficulties with 50A, but after service and calibration with the USB dock it has worked fine. Granted, the weather has not been photographic for two months here, but still.
> 
> The 50A is far more reliable than EF 50/1.4 with the center focus point, and I trust my 5D outer focus points only on bright and sunny days anyways and when my object is not too close with about any objective I have.
> 
> ...



For testing I only use the center point. And, again, mine worked for 6 months before it shows the same issues the THREE other Art lenses had.

Different temp light has something to do with it now, but didn't before, and it's actually just as good in the dark as it is with bright sunlight, it's slower in the dark, of course, but it was as accurate. And for at least 5 months it just didn't miss at 1.4 (the only aperture I use with it.) now the AF seems to just guess wildly and you cannot get two shots in a row or even 2 out of 10 that are anywhere near equally sharp, and once a week a shot is tack sharp.


----------



## Mika (Dec 20, 2014)

Well, there's two other things that come to mind: first, what autofocus mode are you using? Servo or One Shot? Do you take burst shots or single shots? The second thing, have you used 200/2 with a similar profile?

The logic behind the second question is the following:
The 200/2 should show depth of field being inconsistent even more easily than 50A if this is a camera body issue (like the distance to the AF sensor changing for a reason or the other).

The third thing is that does the lens show the same behavior with a camera body other than 1DX?

When the lens misses, what is the variance of the misses?


----------



## Viggo (Dec 20, 2014)

Mika said:


> Well, there's two other things that come to mind: first, what autofocus mode are you using? Servo or One Shot? Do you take burst shots or single shots? The second thing, have you used 200/2 with a similar profile?
> 
> The logic behind the second question is the following:
> The 200/2 should show depth of field being inconsistent even more easily than 50A if this is a camera body issue (like the distance to the AF sensor changing for a reason or the other).
> ...



Simply put; I have tried every possible mode with all my lenses just to make sure that each of my lenses are in the right mode. 

The 200 tracks so good I use slightly different settings to keep stable tracking because I know it doesn't miss that first focus. There is no AF option I haven't beaten to death to make sure it's not me.

And please read the part where I wrote that the 50 has worked perfect for 5 months and doesn't anymore. My 2470 and 200 simply work as they did when I first got them. No change in anything other than the Sigma.

The variation of the misses are complete random. Take a hundred shots and get 95 different grades of sharpness, and front and back all over.


----------



## Mika (Dec 20, 2014)

The thing I'm thinking is did you follow the earlier thread about 1DX not working properly in AF Servo and 12 fps in darker areas? I thought that there could be a remote possibility that since you are from Norway that within 6 months, the average luminosity of the scenery has changed drastically. This would be specifically compounded by using 50/1.4 which would naturally be taken to more darker areas than the other lenses.

I actually didn't ask for the 24-70 results. It's a F/2.8 case, thus the usage profile is likely different from 50/1.4, while 200/2 could encounter a bit more similar stuff. Nevertheless, since 200/2 doesn't show similar problems in similar illumination, then the problem is most likely the lens.

What I meant by variance is that people are saying that autofocus is not consistent regardless of the focus distance. The meaning of this, however, is not very clear to me. Does it mean you get front and back focus both within certain limits regardless of the distance, or that the amount of the front and back focus is random regardless of the original focusing distance?

For example, focus it to 5 metres, and the realized plane of best focus has a variance of +/-1 metres from it. Do the same to 10 metres, and you get +/- 1 metres or something like that from it too randomly. OR, is it so that you focus it to 5 metres, and the resulting plane of best focus is from MIN to INF, and when you go to 10 metres, the same happens?

But it does start to sound like mechanical wear of some focusing parts, or like a decoder wheel reader skipping some pulses randomly. However, it could also be the firmware, but it's a bit hard to believe since it works in the beginning. Warm and cold cycles could off-set something inside the lens too.

I haven't opened the lens yet so I don't know much about the inner mechanical construction. Perhaps Roger Cicala from Lensrentals would know something about this?


----------



## Viggo (Dec 20, 2014)

Mika said:


> The thing I'm thinking is did you follow the earlier thread about 1DX not working properly in AF Servo and 12 fps in darker areas? I thought that there could be a remote possibility that since you are from Norway that within 6 months, the average luminosity of the scenery has changed drastically. This would be specifically compounded by using 50/1.4 which would naturally be taken to more darker areas than the other lenses.
> 
> I actually didn't ask for the 24-70 results. It's a F/2.8 case, thus the usage profile is likely different from 50/1.4, while 200/2 could encounter a bit more similar stuff. Nevertheless, since 200/2 doesn't show similar problems in similar illumination, then the problem is most likely the lens.
> 
> ...



I shoot wide open with all lenses in any light 

Regarding distances and misses, it doesn't matter, if it's at MFD or Infinity or anything in between at any afma it will miss front or back, at random. And if I choose an afma value for one or more of the 4 distance I can calibrate with the docking, it doesn't really have any effect. I think that is because when it misses it can easily miss with much more than the afma scale can correct.


----------



## Mika (Dec 20, 2014)

Well, my question was exactly that: when it misses back and forth, how much in metres does it miss (variance)? I suppose it wont be fluctuating between MFD and INF if you are pointing it to an object at the proximity of minimum focus distance, but instead object distance +/- 0.5 metres or something like that.

By supplying this kind of information to Sigma, that could help pinpointing what's not working right if it is a mechanical error. In this case, it should help to estimate the magnitude of element movement error, whatever causes it.

You could also take a look at the focus scale when it's focusing. In my case, there was a weird jerk when the lens approached the right focus spot that seemed to throw it off. It went away after the service if I recall. I haven't used the lens for two months now as the weather has royally sucked here.

Also, try to find the Sigma contact of this guy: http://sigma120to300sportssaga.blogspot.fi/ Apparently, making it public also helps.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks for the tips!

I will hand it in for repair within the week, and I'll be sure to do a serious write up on how it behaves.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 23, 2014)

Just wanted to update this thread. Be aware of your 50 Art, it has suddenly started to hit perfect again. No new values no new calibration, and yet the last couple of days and a few hundred pictures in all kinds of horrid light and every single shot is DEAD ON... How? Why? And wtf? I don't know. But I will keep using it and do some controlled shots to keep for later so I can check if it starts to act up again.

Padded cell next...


----------



## martti (Dec 30, 2014)

It is funny how all the fantastic new products seem to break the early adopters' hearts within the first 6 months of use. The miraculous Sigmas do not focus and the best ever Nikon lets the sunshine in like hippies in the musical Hair back in the sixties.
Even refurbished you cannot trust and all the second hand stuff is probably for sale for a Reason.

There are magicians who turn out beautiful stuff with the 50mm L as their only lens.
Here, for example: http://trash-russia.com/photos-by-russian-photographer-katerina-plotnikova-part-2/


----------



## Maiaibing (Dec 30, 2014)

Viggo said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Just wondering if anyone here have had AF issues with the Sigma 50 Art and had it successfully repaired, not swapped for a new?
> 
> ...



Mine has been perfect since day one. Got it fairly early. Have shot a lot with 50mm f/1.2 L before. 

When you use such a shallow depth of field you have count on some misses no matter what if you are shooting something tight such as a portrait. I take 3 shots to be fairly sure I have at least one spot on. I'd say 2 of 3 in average are good in focus shots. 

Also, we tend to use such extreme f-stops when the light is bad (and when the lens is most useful). Try testing the lens at good light and see if it makes a difference. Maybe also rent a Canon before you decide the Sigma that'is broken?

Good luck.


----------



## GammyKnee (Dec 30, 2014)

Viggo said:


> Padded cell next...



Intermittent faults drive me nuts too. I've been following the Sigma 50 saga in this and other threads, and I really sympathize with the frustration of it all. I take it there's no discernible pattern to the misbehavior at all? I'm thinking if there's some kind of mechanical or electrical fault things like temperature, carriage (bumpy roads? particular way of carrying the camera?) could play a role in determining what makes for a good day versus a nightmare.

FWIW I still haven't had the guts to try the 50 Art, but I did get a second hand Sigma 50 EX (yep, the older one) which is actually pretty dependable on my 5D3. It is at the same time dependably awful on my 5D2 despite numerous attempts at AFMA. Go figure, as they say.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 30, 2014)

Maiaibing said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys!
> ...



I'm not gonna list all the copies of all the different super fast lenses I have owned and/or used, but it FAR outnumbers the 2.8 and slower lenses I have used. And I shoot wide open 99% of the time. Let's just say we can rule out user error with this specific issue. I'm a strobist so I also use the large apertures in bright sunlight a lot also. You are right in what you say about thin dof and that it requires a bit more focus to nail 8) but it's not the issue here.


----------



## Eldar (Dec 31, 2014)

Viggo, FYI, I just read some posts on a Facebook group concerning AF with the 50 Art in low temperatures. Apparently a number of owners have AF problems from about -5C. This just adds to the issues with the Sigma AF system.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 31, 2014)

Eldar said:


> Viggo, FYI, I just read some posts on a Facebook group concerning AF with the 50 Art in low temperatures. Apparently a number of owners have AF problems from about -5C. This just adds to the issues with the Sigma AF system.



Haven't really tried it in the cold yet, but we live in Norway so the odds of -5 is prettttttty high, was outside Oslo for Christmas and it was -21, and I came from +1 down south, lol.. So the AF is dependent on using f11 in bright sun and +20 degrees then, fantastic.


----------



## Mika (Dec 31, 2014)

Ah, temperature dependency could be a factor. I haven't tried mine outside in the cold, the weather has sucked big time from about the beginning of November. Now that we get -20C in the following days, sun light should be available instead of the continuous overcast (yay November and December in Northern Finland, but we get the compensation in March) for the last two months.

Perhaps there is indeed something related to thermal expansion and the build material. It really does not take a lot of thermal expansion to throw the autofocus off, and makes me wonder whether some amount of complaints of the 50EX or 50L are caused by that too.

Given the Sigma's new Thermally Stable Composite, it is indeed possible that therein lies part of the problem. Could you provide a link to the Facebook group? The most burning question from my part is whether there is hysteresis with respect to the temperature involved. That would mean that taking the lens (calibrated at +20C) from +20C to -20C and using it there, then bringing it back to +20C indoors does not return the lens to the earlier calibrated position.


----------



## Viggo (Dec 31, 2014)

Still wouldn't explain the very high level of inconsistency though. But it's in for repair now so will be interesting to see what they do. Will update when I know something more.


----------



## Northstar (Jan 2, 2015)

Sorry to see this discussion...it seems we are still waiting for a really good all around 50mm.


----------



## Viggo (Jan 2, 2015)

Northstar said:


> Sorry to see this discussion...it seems we are still waiting for a really good all around 50mm.



Both yes and no, mine worked for 6 months and it's been extremely consistent and so perfect it makes most other lenses look like you won them on a vending machine. And the AF and tracking have been as good as the 2470 II. But if it only lasts a few months, that is quite a big issue, I agree. If I had known the working copy would also stop functioning I would have given up on it way back in April.

This is the last chance it gets ..


----------



## drmikeinpdx (Jan 2, 2015)

*Crazy autofocus*

Autofocus problems will make you crazy, especially when you know the lens/camera combination is capable of extreme sharpness!

I have had a Sigma 50 classic for about four years. I was very happy with the sharpness, not that different from the 50 Art I rented. Unfortunately the autofocus performance varies a lot. Sometimes when I would get very frustrated, I would put it away and just use other lenses. Then, 2 or 3 months later I would try it again and find it worked very well for a while. (I did send it in for calibration before the 3 year warranty ran out, but could detect no difference when I got it back.)

I'm hoping that my recently purchased, used Canon 50 1.2 will at least have consistent focus errors. That way I can learn to compensate. It's in for calibration right now as I've reported in another thread.

Viggo, thanks for sharing your experience. All this would be even more frustrating if we were not able to learn from each other.


----------



## Northstar (Jan 3, 2015)

Viggo said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to see this discussion...it seems we are still waiting for a really good all around 50mm.
> ...



I just wish canon made a great 50 or 85 1.4....it's really a shame that it has to come down to this.


----------



## richro (Jan 11, 2015)

Northstar said:


> I just wish canon made a great 50 or 85 1.4....it's really a shame that it has to come down to this.



YES! With IS. 
6D II + 50 1.4 IS by 2016 please!


----------



## Viggo (Jan 11, 2015)

My 50 Art is in the mail, they claim it's fixed, but all they did was "clean HSM-unit", so monday or Tuesday I'll find out if it did the trick or not..


----------



## candyman (Jan 11, 2015)

Viggo said:


> My 50 Art is in the mail, they claim it's fixed, but all they did was "clean HSM-unit", so monday or Tuesday I'll find out if it did the trick or not..




Hmmm, just clean the HSM-unit...
You did not have this one so long and it started to disfunction only after a while....


I cross my fingers for you. Hope it is fixed


----------



## martti (Jan 11, 2015)

Hmmm....that reminds me of the Miele® repairman I called to fix a howling waterpump on my dishwasher.
He asked me what the problem was and I told him that it must be the bearing of the waterpump that is making the noise as it only appeared when the machine is emptying.
"The Miele® water pumps do not fail!"
On the bill he had written: 'Program selector calibrated'. He only charged for the mileage.

So the focusing motor was dirty...Sigma® focusing motors do not fail?


----------



## Rudeofus (Jan 14, 2015)

martti said:


> So the focusing motor was dirty...Sigma® focusing motors do not fail?



If you know and understand how USM/HSM/USD works, you will quickly agree that mechanical failure is quite unlikely, whereas a grain of dust, or sticky lubricant can cause a lot of grief.


----------



## martti (Jan 14, 2015)

Rudeofus said:


> martti said:
> 
> 
> > So the focusing motor was dirty...Sigma® focusing motors do not fail?
> ...



You might be surprised but I really do understand how the HSM works.
I also understand how image building and afermarketing functions.
For some reason, some of the brands just want to stick to the lies they started out with instead of going like "hmmm this is something we have not seen, must be the bearing"...

Yeah, never let the truth surface if you can help it.
Maybe I am becoming paranoid because I am living in France.


----------



## Viggo (Jan 14, 2015)

Had the 50 Art back from service now two days, haven't really tried it enough yet, but so far so good (not sure if I should even say that out loud). I'm going to make my own neoprene cover over the whole lens, IF dust was the issue.


----------

