# Leaked: Full review of the Sony A7 IV goes live prematurely



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 20, 2021)

> As happens all of the time, a review for an upcoming product has leaked out ahead of tomorrow’s official announcement of the Sony A7 IV.
> Check out the review above.
> *Update:* It looks like takedown orders from Tony & Chelsea are hitting YouTube and Vimeo, so I won’t be scouring for another one. I’m sure it’s an annoying bit of work for them. The camera will be announced tomorrow, so there will be many reviews of the A7 IV to watch then.
> *Update 2:* The official review from Tony and Chelsea is now live above.



Continue reading...


----------



## landon (Oct 20, 2021)

Interesting. Sony's been fined by China for releasing a camera product in July date. DJI announce their fancy cinema-gimbal camera today. Sony 'acidentally' leak their camera today. Hmmm!!!


----------



## jessecapps (Oct 20, 2021)

It is hard to believe that video was recorded in 2021. It looks like a broadcast video from the 90s. Pretty bad quality overall. Also, the camera seems crappy compared to R6.


----------



## LensFungus (Oct 20, 2021)

Looks great but I don't think the Sony A7 IV will achieve the same legendary status in the camera community that made Canon and Nikon nervous as the Sony A7 III did. Mainly because of the increased price.


----------



## John Wilde (Oct 20, 2021)

Tony Northrup - eww.  Among other things, he's the one who declared "The TRUTH about the Canon EOS R3", even though Canon never sent him that camera.


----------



## fox40phil (Oct 20, 2021)

Not bad! Want to see a 1on1 fight against the R6 ...


----------



## entoman (Oct 20, 2021)

LensFungus said:


> Looks great but I don't think the Sony A7 IV will achieve the same legendary status in the camera community that made Canon and Nikon nervous as the Sony A7 III did. Mainly because of the increased price.


A good option for Sony a7iii users wishing to upgrade to better AF, better menus and a moderate increase in resolution, but it’s not likely to tempt anyone away from Canon.

Nice try Sony, but a bit of an “also ran”.


----------



## LSXPhotog (Oct 20, 2021)

They are so clingy to watch. I don't believe for a second that this was an "accident" that the Northrups leaked this...but they're not getting any clicks on a Vimeo video, so perhaps it was just a monumental mistake to have the video go live early.


----------



## entoman (Oct 20, 2021)

ps!

Tony must have forgotten that he signed that NDA with Sony.


----------



## Emyr Evans (Oct 20, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Tony Northrup - eww.  Among other things, he's the one who declared "The TRUTH about the Canon EOS R3", even though Canon never sent him that camera.


And declared it didn't have GPS (it does) and questioned whether it would achieve 30fps in "real shooting" - which others *with* the R3 did indeed achieve.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Oct 20, 2021)

BREAKING NEWS!


----------



## LukasS (Oct 20, 2021)

Why even bother with complaining about Tony, it's like being an adult and being angry at cartoons for lack of proper presentation of a person... their channel is for entry level audience.


----------



## john1970 (Oct 20, 2021)

A simple policy that would require anyone posting a review of a product to have actually physically used the product would address the issue of misinformation and provide more factual information in reviews.


----------



## amorse (Oct 20, 2021)

I'll be curious to see how the camera does, but I feel like Sony's penchant to keep producing older bodies may steal some thunder here. If this retails for $2500, I wonder how many people would instead opt for an a7RIII at $2800? Certainly not everyone would, but I would think a number would be ok moving up to that depending on the final specs.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 20, 2021)

john1970 said:


> A simple policy that would require anyone posting a review of a product to have actually physically used the product would address the issue of misinformation and provide more factual information in reviews.


Would such a policy be simple to enforce?


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 20, 2021)

jessecapps said:


> It is hard to believe that video was recorded in 2021. It looks like a broadcast video from the 90s. Pretty bad quality overall. Also, the camera seems crappy compared to R6.


Almost nobody with an R6 would be on the market for it.
It will be enough to keep Sony users onboard and will attract some people who did not find the R6 appealing


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 20, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> Not bad! Want to see a 1on1 fight against the R6 ...


We will.
Most YouTube reviewers seem to be team Sony.
I do not expect a fair fight.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 20, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Would such a policy be simple to enforce?


Sure, in China.


----------



## Tidy Media (Oct 21, 2021)

Anyone have a TL;DR so I can continue my hotstreak of not having to watch their videos?


----------



## john1970 (Oct 21, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Would such a policy be simple to enforce?


Good point. I do not know how you would enforce it, but say a $10K fine for each offense might deter some. Currently, the viewer uses their Brian and know who are good reviewers and decide for themselves.


----------



## mdcmdcmdc (Oct 21, 2021)

john1970 said:


> Good point. I do not know how you would enforce it, but say a $10K fine for each offense might deter some. Currently, the viewer uses their Brian and know who are good reviewers and decide for themselves.


Never mind enforcement, who would even _make_ such a policy?

- Certainly not elected lawmakers, who are often the first ones to unabashedly play fast and loose with facts (and otherwise) when it suits them.

- Certainly not the online video sharing companies (not naming names), who make their money on showing you ads and don't really care what you watch.

- Certainly not social media sites. Their own leaked research shows that their profits are directly tied to "engagement", which goes up when there is division and controversy.

- Certainly not the various photo clickbait sites (definitely not naming names!) who likewise make their money from showing people ads while hanging out in forums regarding the most inconsequential of "news".

Caveat emptor.


----------



## dlee13 (Oct 21, 2021)

entoman said:


> A good option for Sony a7iii users wishing to upgrade to better AF, better menus and a moderate increase in resolution, but it’s not likely to tempt anyone away from Canon.
> 
> Nice try Sony, but a bit of an “also ran”.


Funny enough in Dec last year I owned the A7III and made the decision to swap to the Canon R6 and I was unsure if I would still think it would be a good decision when this A7IV came out.

Seeing the specs the only advantage I can see is the 33mp which isn't even a factor for me so I'm glad I made the choice to swap back to the R6.

I will say that I wish Canon here in Australia would be more aggressive with their pricing.


----------



## pauloancarvalho (Oct 21, 2021)

I currently own an EOS R and a GH5. I will sell my GH5 to get a camera that supports ProRes RAW. I would love that camera to be the R6 but seems likes Canon won’t be adding it to the R6. The R5 is out of my budget, if the A74 supports ProRes RAW I’m in, if not, I’m upgrading to the GH5S or GH6. I still prefer my Canom EOS R for photography though.


----------



## Chaitanya (Oct 21, 2021)

amorse said:


> I'll be curious to see how the camera does, but I feel like Sony's penchant to keep producing older bodies may steal some thunder here. If this retails for $2500, I wonder how many people would instead opt for an a7RIII at $2800? Certainly not everyone would, but I would think a number would be ok moving up to that depending on the final specs.


Given A1 was scalped on ebay, if this camera is heavily pre ordered expecting it also will be scalped for much higher prices like other electronics.


----------



## peters (Oct 21, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Would such a policy be simple to enforce?


No, completely impossible.
Also "reviews" are all by now nothing but commercials. ALL of them have affilliated links under their videos. There main source of income are these affilliated links. The YouTubers will allways bless the product so that you get an overall good feeling about it. Even with some "minor" flaws, which the mention so they can name their videos "the honest truth about..."
Keep in mind, these YouTube-"reviewers" make a living by selling cameras to you through their affilliated links. Whenever someone buys anything from these links, they geht 0,5 - 3% of the product price. They have no interest to give honest or brutal reviews. Some exceptions may apply, like when they want to start a controversy to get more clicks and a heated discussion.


----------



## Concombre Crétin (Oct 21, 2021)

As an owner of the a7 III, I'm just upset about the a7 IV in many ways.
Nothing "WOW" anymore about this iteration.

Can't wait for Canon EOS R5 II.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 21, 2021)

peters said:


> No, completely impossible.


Yes – it was a rhetorical question.


----------



## Hector1970 (Oct 21, 2021)

Looks a nice camera 33MP 10FPS with a high accuracy rate in terms of focusing. It will sell well for Sony


----------



## Andy Westwood (Oct 21, 2021)

This video comes as a surprise to me, because on several occasions The Northrup’s have clearly stated they wont review pre-production model cameras, and insisted on waiting for the retail version to arrive, but now, here they are on launch day with a A7 IV in their hands reviewing it.

Is this because previously manufacturers wouldn’t give them a camera body before launch day.

Or as I suspect, Tony and Chelsea finally figured out by not doing reviews on pre-production camera bodies on launch day, they were losing out on so much traffic to other popular and competing YouTube reviewers.


----------



## Del Paso (Oct 21, 2021)

I do not understand why these T & C commercials are still named reviews...
I'd never base one single buying/not buying decision on their "opinions".


----------



## woodman411 (Oct 21, 2021)

It is stunning how reviewers (including Gordan Laing) gloss over the R6's 20fps advantage over the a7iv, and it is a curious omission by Sony not to have a faster silent shooting option. 10fps versus 20fps is SIGNIFICANT. It is much more significant than 20fps versus 30fps. It's the difference between getting a fast-moving shot or not, almost the speed difference between an M6 from 2017 to the current 1DXIII. The R6 was a game-changer to introduce this speed with AF at its price point. (yes there is distortion with electronic shutter, but it is certainly far from unusable)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 21, 2021)

woodman411 said:


> It is stunning how reviewers (including Gordan Laing) gloss over the R6's 20fps advantage over the a7iv,


It’s the logical extension of ‘the best camera is the one in your hand’. In this case, it’s ‘the best camera is the one that will earn me affiliate link money’.

These ‘reviews’ are really just infotainment (or in the case of TN, misinfotainment).


----------



## AlanF (Oct 22, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> It’s the logical extension of ‘the best camera is the one in your hand’. In this case, it’s ‘the best camera is the one that will earn me affiliate link money’.
> 
> These ‘reviews’ are really just infotainment (or in the case of TN, misinfotainment).


And in the TN case, Mrs infotainment.


----------



## Jethro (Oct 22, 2021)

I consistently find Gordon the best of them, but it's true that he (and others) will generally pass over a lot of deficiencies, and concentrate on the positives. Especially in terms of comparisons with alternatives.


----------



## maulanawale (Oct 22, 2021)

john1970 said:


> Good point. I do not know how you would enforce it, but say a $10K fine for each offense might deter some. Currently, the viewer uses their Brian and know who are good reviewers and decide for themselves.


"The viewer uses their Brian. . ."
Typo or not, that really made me laugh 

I pictured everyone's good mate Brian sitting next to them while watching YouTube and asking, so what do we think? Yay or Nay?

Thanks!!


----------



## TravelerNick (Oct 22, 2021)

peters said:


> No, completely impossible.
> Also "reviews" are all by now nothing but commercials. ALL of them have affilliated links under their videos. There main source of income are these affilliated links. The YouTubers will allways bless the product so that you get an overall good feeling about it. Even with some "minor" flaws, which



It worse than that. Many of them are promoted videos. Every so often the FTC in the US or the UK equivalent fines an "influencer" for not disclosing this. 

In general the affiliate links aren't really about the product. An Amazon link for example is for anything the consumer buys in the next 24 hours. Other companies have even longer times. That means you can roast a product and send somebody to Amazon to check the price and still make money.


----------



## entoman (Oct 22, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> It’s the logical extension of ‘the best camera is the one in your hand’. In this case, it’s ‘the best camera is the one that will earn me affiliate link money’.
> 
> These ‘reviews’ are really just infotainment (or in the case of TN, misinfotainment).


Completely agree, but there are a handful of honest, trustworthy reviews out there, such as this comparison between the Sony a1 and Canon R5 by Jan Wegener:


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 22, 2021)

entoman said:


> Completely agree, but there are a handful of honest, trustworthy reviews out there, such as this comparison between the Sony a1 and Canon R5 by Jan Wegener:


The problem I find with even the very few reviewers I trust, and I include Jan amongst them, is that case use and personalization makes such a difference to user experience and subsequent results as to nullify the small differences we see in systems now.

For instance it seems all reviewers are very keen on back button focus, I hate it, using a camera optimized for BBF that reviewers love just doesn’t work for me. Or a better example would be AF settings, if you take the time to find custom settings appropriate for your personal acquisition speed etc then it will gel, if not you will always wonder how others get ‘better’ results than you.

On a completely different point, I am one of the few who consider 20mp ‘enough’ 99% of the time as I am never focal length limited. Yesterday I made my first commercial customer prints at 30” x 20” using Photoshop Enhance, and wow! What a difference, it might be the subject matter but I now have pin sharp detail in 30”+ prints at close up viewing distances from 20mp files, freaking awesome!


----------



## entoman (Oct 22, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> The problem I find with even the very few reviewers I trust, and I include Jan amongst them, is that case use and personalization makes such a difference to user experience and subsequent results as to nullify the small differences we see in systems now.
> 
> For instance it seems all reviewers are very keen on back button focus, I hate it, using a camera optimized for BBF that reviewers love just doesn’t work for me. Or a better example would be AF settings, if you take the time to find custom settings appropriate for your personal acquisition speed etc then it will gel, if not you will always wonder how others get ‘better’ results than you.
> 
> On a completely different point, I am one of the few who consider 20mp ‘enough’ 99% of the time as I am never focal length limited. Yesterday I made my first commercial customer prints at 30” x 20” using Photoshop Enhance, and wow! What a difference, it might be the subject matter but I now have pin sharp detail in 30”+ prints at close up viewing distances from 20mp files, freaking awesome!


Haha, I’m so glad that I’m not the only wildlife photographer who hates back button focus. I’ve tried it a few times as all the top bird photographers tell you how good it is, but I just can’t get on with it.

FWIW, my AF set-up for birds and animals with my R5 is this:

AF case 2, but tracking set to lock-on, and acceleration set to maximum.
Default AF method SERVO = C-AF in Sony/Nikon speak
Default AF zone is “face and tracking” with with eye-AF turned *OFF*
Animal AF
Shutter button normal (AF and metering start)
AF/ON button - eye-AF
*button - switches to spot AF and ONE-SHOT = S-AF in Sony/Nikon speak
Mfn button to switch between AF zones.
With the above set-up I only hit the AF/ON (eye AF) button if the bird/animal is filling about a third of the frame width.
I hit the * button (spot AF and ONE SHOT) when the subject is half-hidden by twigs or foliage.

I have all the above saved as a custom mode, and I meter manually.

I agree that 20MP is “enough” if you are able to compose tightly, but for fast-moving subjects I need a safety margin around the subject, and I enjoy experimenting in post with different crops and aspect ratios.


----------



## maulanawale (Oct 22, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> The problem I find with even the very few reviewers I trust, and I include Jan amongst them, is that case use and personalization makes such a difference to user experience and subsequent results as to nullify the small differences we see in systems now.
> 
> For instance it seems all reviewers are very keen on back button focus, I hate it, using a camera optimized for BBF that reviewers love just doesn’t work for me. Or a better example would be AF settings, if you take the time to find custom settings appropriate for your personal acquisition speed etc then it will gel, if not you will always wonder how others get ‘better’ results than you.
> 
> On a completely different point, I am one of the few who consider 20mp ‘enough’ 99% of the time as I am never focal length limited. Yesterday I made my first commercial customer prints at 30” x 20” using Photoshop Enhance, and wow! What a difference, it might be the subject matter but I now have pin sharp detail in 30”+ prints at close up viewing distances from 20mp files, freaking awesome!


+1 here!

PS enhance is now part of my editing process for all the keepers and I'm yet to be disappointed with the result.
I had tried Topaz Gigapixel before but that didn't get along well with the files and introduced loads of artefacts.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 22, 2021)

pauloancarvalho said:


> I currently own an EOS R and a GH5. I will sell my GH5 to get a camera that supports ProRes RAW. I would love that camera to be the R6 but seems likes Canon won’t be adding it to the R6. The R5 is out of my budget, if the A74 supports ProRes RAW I’m in, if not, I’m upgrading to the GH5S or GH6. I still prefer my Canom EOS R for photography though.


So far it seems to me that only Panasonic and Canon support ProRes RAW correctly.
Everyone else has oversampled, binned, or line skipped RAW which is RAW in name only.
I am not sure there is much advantage over ProRes at that point.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 22, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Given A1 was scalped on ebay, if this camera is heavily pre ordered expecting it also will be scalped for much higher prices like other electronics.


Given the supply shortage, that does not really tell us very much


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 22, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Yes – it was a rhetorical question.


But was your rhetorical question rhetorical?


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 22, 2021)

Andy Westwood said:


> This video comes as a surprise to me, because on several occasions The Northrup’s have clearly stated they wont review pre-production model cameras, and insisted on waiting for the retail version to arrive, but now, here they are on launch day with a A7 IV in their hands reviewing it.
> 
> Is this because previously manufacturers wouldn’t give them a camera body before launch day.
> 
> Or as I suspect, Tony and Chelsea finally figured out by not doing reviews on pre-production camera bodies on launch day, they were losing out on so much traffic to other popular and competing YouTube reviewers.


I do not recall them mentioning preproduction.
I guess it could have been a production model.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 22, 2021)

woodman411 said:


> It is stunning how reviewers (including Gordan Laing) gloss over the R6's 20fps advantage over the a7iv, and it is a curious omission by Sony not to have a faster silent shooting option. 10fps versus 20fps is SIGNIFICANT. It is much more significant than 20fps versus 30fps. It's the difference between getting a fast-moving shot or not, almost the speed difference between an M6 from 2017 to the current 1DXIII. The R6 was a game-changer to introduce this speed with AF at its price point. (yes there is distortion with electronic shutter, but it is certainly far from unusable)


It barely even does 10 fps.
He also failed to mention DCI vs UHD 4K.
For UHD 4K the Sony definitely has the advantage (ignoring image stabilization).


----------



## pauloancarvalho (Oct 22, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> So far it seems to me that only Panasonic and Canon support ProRes RAW correctly.
> Everyone else has oversampled, binned, or line skipped RAW which is RAW in name only.
> I am not sure there is much advantage over ProRes at that point.


Seems like that either Canon or Panasonic are both the best right? I would love to go for the R5 but it's out of my budget, that's why I'm considering a GH5S or even the GH6 if it comes out with ProRes RAW as well. Man, I wish the R6 supported it!


----------



## Sporgon (Oct 23, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> On a completely different point, I am one of the few who consider 20mp ‘enough’ 99% of the time as I am never focal length limited. Yesterday I made my first commercial customer prints at 30” x 20” using Photoshop Enhance, and wow! What a difference, it might be the subject matter but I now have pin sharp detail in 30”+ prints at close up viewing distances from 20mp files,freaking awesome!


I agree, the Enhance mode is indeed scary !! It also tends to reinforce my feelings of recent years that in a practical application a 50mp FF camera is really just offering a greater output size over a 20mp one, and not really showing more _detail._


----------



## GoldWing (Oct 24, 2021)

How funny. I'm on the Canon Rumors site and they are gushing about SONY. 

The R3 is an abysmal zzzzzzz out of the gate.

Perhaps CR can do a fan boy review of the new GoPro?

Canon is in deep doodoo, the Z9 is about to blow away their R3 as an insignificant foot note of low resolution yesterday's news.

I have less and less faith that the R1 is even worth waiting for.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 24, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Canon is in deep doodoo, the Z9 is about to blow away their R3 as an insignificant foot note of low resolution yesterday's news.


Let us know when Canon actually starts losing market share, or Nikon starts gaining back any of the substantial share they’ve lost to both Sony and Canon. Until then, you’re the insignificant footnote.


----------



## Berowne (Oct 24, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> The problem I find with even the very few reviewers I trust, and I include Jan amongst them, is that case use and personalization makes such a difference to user experience and subsequent results as to nullify the small differences we see in systems now.
> 
> For instance it seems all reviewers are very keen on back button focus, I hate it, using a camera optimized for BBF that reviewers love just doesn’t work for me. Or a better example would be AF settings, if you take the time to find custom settings appropriate for your personal acquisition speed etc then it will gel, if not you will always wonder how others get ‘better’ results than you.
> 
> On a completely different point, I am one of the few who consider 20mp ‘enough’ 99% of the time as I am never focal length limited. Yesterday I made my first commercial customer prints at 30” x 20” using Photoshop Enhance, and wow! What a difference, it might be the subject matter but I now have pin sharp detail in 30”+ prints at close up viewing distances from 20mp files, freaking awesome!



PS Enhance works nice for me with the 20 Mpx of the R6. Funny!


----------



## jedy (Oct 24, 2021)

Concombre Crétin said:


> As an owner of the a7 III, I'm just upset about the a7 IV in many ways.
> Nothing "WOW" anymore about this iteration.
> 
> Can't wait for Canon EOS R5 II.


It’s the base model Alpha camera (at least it used to be). Of course people want it to contain features from the A7SIII and A1 so they can save a fair amount of money but that will never happen. I also think it’s impossible for camera companies to produce ‘wow’ cameras every time. Sony’s A7III was a one off in that regard which tempted a lot of people over to the platform. Canon are still completing their mirrorless lineup and within a few releases will likely produce incremental updates too. Saying that, there are still plenty who think the A7IV is a worthwhile upgrade.


----------



## LGabrielPhoto (Oct 25, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> We will.
> Most YouTube reviewers seem to be team Sony.
> I do not expect a fair fight.


I am planning to review it vs my R5 and R6 as I shoot both systems right now (well technically only Canon currently as I sold my A9 which now seems like a mistake based on the A7 IV rolling shutter and 10fps lol).
I do not get the benefit of early camera releases but I am also don't feel any pressure for making sure Company X is happy with me to keep sending me gear early. I will be working with B&H directly for loaners instead. 
I still want to grab the A9ii for a good comparison review vs the R5 and R6. I did a quick test before selling the A9 vs the R6 and the results of a model jogging towards the camera were unexpected, to say the least, with the R6 actually getting more eyes in focus. That was a defining moment for me,
To clarify, the A9 did beat the R6 in tracking in other situations so as expected the A9 is still a monster tracker and with the nearly perfect silent shooting but for MY needs, the R6 is just superb as my 2nd body.
Regards


----------



## jayphotoworks (Oct 25, 2021)

jedy said:


> It’s the base model Alpha camera (at least it used to be). Of course people want it to contain features from the A7SIII and A1 so they can save a fair amount of money but that will never happen. I also think it’s impossible for camera companies to produce ‘wow’ cameras every time. Sony’s A7III was a one off in that regard which tempted a lot of people over to the platform. Canon are still completing their mirrorless lineup and within a few releases will likely produce incremental updates too. Saying that, there are still plenty who think the A7IV is a worthwhile upgrade.


Sony made quite a few waves with the A7III. Probably wanting to frantically try and get more FF customers in the door before the larger more established players like Canon and Nikon came to play. They've really slowed down the superlatives and gimmicks of late, and have been focused more on reliability/usability and refinements. I think that is a good sign that a company's product line is maturing and seemingly well reflected in recent BCN MILC trends. That being said, the A7IV is now "more of the same" so to speak.


----------



## LogicExtremist (Oct 26, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> How funny. I'm on the Canon Rumors site and they are gushing about SONY.
> 
> The R3 is an abysmal zzzzzzz out of the gate.
> 
> ...


Newer cameras do tend to leapfrog previously released ones from other brands when they're in the same tier, but I wonder how much of a difference that actually makes for camera sales between competing brands

Do hobbyist photographers (who tend to buy gear more frequently and want the latest and greatest) really jump brands that often when another company produces a higher spec model, or do they just stay brand loyal and wait for their company to top those specs in the next model they release?

If we consider the phenomena of brand loyalty and fanboy culture in photography, the people involved would be the least likely of people to jump ship to another brand. 

Investing in lenses ties most people to a brand, unless they want to run multiple platforms (and lens collections) or don't care about the money lost when selling and replacing lenses for another brand.

It would be great to be able to get some data that shows how many people actually change brands because a competitor has a better camera, and what percentage of the total camera market these people comprise.

FWIW, I don't think that people are exactly gushing over Sony here. What I believe we're seeing is people being able to appreciate a fairly decent camera, no matter who makes it. Cameras at the Canon R6 and Sony A7 IV tier and higher are damn good cameras! Obviously, they meet certain needs cases or they dont. To me, that's a sign of intelligent discussion, of a much higher standard than in some other forums where people tear each other apart in tribal flame wars. It's a good thing that people can appreciate a decent Sony cameraa on a Canon forum!


----------



## entoman (Oct 26, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> Newer cameras do tend to leapfrog previously released ones from other brands when they're in the same tier, but I wonder how much of a difference that actually makes for camera sales between competing brands
> 
> Do hobbyist photographers (who tend to buy gear more frequently and want the latest and greatest) really jump brands that often when another company produces a higher spec model, or do they just stay brand loyal and wait for their company to top those specs in the next model they release?
> 
> ...


I agree with every word of that analysis. Personally I like reading about other brands and comparing their specifications and performance, and I’d much rather read about them and discuss them here, on a site that hasn’t yet been afflicted by the flame-war fanboyette mentality that is so very prevalent on dpr.

I tend to upgrade cameras every 2-3 years, but I always retain one of my older bodies as a backup. Currently I have the R5 and my backup 5DMkiv is hardly ever used. I’m not tempted by the R3 as I don’t want a gripped camera, so I won’t be tempted by the R1 or Z9 either.

I’m hoping that Canon will launch a pro-grade ungripped APS-C body in RF mount, which would make the ideal 2nd body to my R5, but it makes more sense to me to (if/when I can afford it) expand my small collection of lenses.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Oct 26, 2021)

entoman said:


> Haha, I’m so glad that I’m not the only wildlife photographer who hates back button focus. I’ve tried it a few times as all the top bird photographers tell you how good it is, but I just can’t get on with it.
> 
> FWIW, my AF set-up for birds and animals with my R5 is this:
> 
> ...


And you don't call that BBF? 

Jack


----------



## LGabrielPhoto (Oct 26, 2021)

Indeed fanboys are just gear collectors to me. Unless you are getting free gear from a company, I don't see why would anyone create such misguided loyalties forcing them to choose a lesser piece of equipment just because of the a brand label lol
I shoot whatever fits my needs, and the last thing I will take into consideration is the brand label.
I shot Sony for many years because I didn't see anything from Canon that made me feel it was going to improve my shooting at all..
that was until the R5 dropped.
Now the R5 is the one that fits my needs best so why in the world would I not change because of some weird loyalty to Sony??
As I always say...when it's to buy gear, I have to do it with my own hard earned money so I owe no company any loyalty


----------



## entoman (Oct 26, 2021)

Jack Douglas said:


> And you don't call that BBF?
> 
> Jack


I hear what you’re saying, buy with traditional BBF, the shutter button is *only* used for activating the shutter, and AF is activated *only* by using the AF/On and/or * buttons.

With my method the shutter button activates metering *and* AF, so if I quickly raise the camera and half-press the shutter it is instantly ready to fire, without having to also press the AF/On button. I find this much better for grabbed shots.

I like to keep the AF active as default, and use the AF/On to activate/deactivate animal-eye AF.

If I need to focus/recompose, I press the * button, which switches to smallest AF spot and locks focus distance.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Oct 26, 2021)

entoman said:


> I hear what you’re saying, buy with traditional BBF, the shutter button is *only* used for activating the shutter, and AF is activated *only* by using the AF/On and/or * buttons.
> 
> With my method the shutter button activates metering *and* AF, so if I quickly raise the camera and half-press the shutter it is instantly ready to fire, without having to also press the AF/On button. I find this much better for grabbed shots.
> 
> ...


All good, but I think that's your definition of BBF. Most folk who claim they don't like BBF simply don't use their thumb from what I've gathered. Regardless having eye AF on the shutter leads to problems so it's better as the second instantaneous choice as you've suggested.

Jack


----------

