# Canon Introduces Their First Dual Fisheye Lens for Stereoscopic 3D 180° VR Capture in 8K



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 6, 2021)

> MELVILLE, NY, October 6, 2021 – Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, has introduced its first product designed to empower the next generation of immersive storytellers. The new RF5.2mm F2.8 L Dual Fisheye lens brings stereoscopic 3D virtual reality (VR) capture* to the EOS R5 camera as part of the EOS VR System, which also includes a future firmware update for the EOS R5 camera to support use of this lens with new VR shooting specific functions, as well as new upcoming Canon EOS VR software solutions for conversion and processing. As the world’s first digital interchangeable dual fisheye lens capable of shooting stereoscopic 3D 180° VR imagery to a single image sensor** the complexities of virtual reality production and the ability to view the content in full capacity are greatly streamlined for seasoned professionals and newcomers to the craft. In...



Continue reading...


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## exkeks (Oct 6, 2021)

Will this lens work only with the R5 or will only some features(?) be available for the R5, while general usage is possible with all R camera bodies?

I'm aware that using it with the RP or the R6 do not make much sense because resolution. But with the original R there would be left a more than 3K resolution per eye.


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## Ozarker (Oct 6, 2021)

Under $2k? Can't wait to see how this is used. So interesting!

***We, on the forum, pretty much "screwed the pooch" on the price prediction for this lens.***


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## chris_overseas (Oct 6, 2021)

Looking at 3:48 in that video, it seems that some of the image is lost due to each lens being visible in the image of its neighbour. Presumably that can be dealt with in post by cropping, but I wonder what the true resolution ends up being in the VR headset. It's surely not 8k.


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## entoman (Oct 6, 2021)

Canon delivers!

Amazing! Much more compact than I expected. I really like the ability to adjust the distance between the lenses, and to have an aperture of F2.8 available in such an optic is fabulous. If this is remotely affordable I can see it becoming a huge seller.

As an L lens, I’d expect very high sharpness, but I have some reservations about flare, which is apparent in the video, and means that the lens is probably best used when the front elements can be shielded from direct sunlight.

Gimmee, gimmee gimmee!


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## koenkooi (Oct 6, 2021)

In the Canon USA video they sure mentioned "paid subscription service" a lot. And only provided 3rd party support for, you guessed it: a paid subscription service, from Adobe.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2021)

Under $2k!?! cheaper than 2x 8-15mm fisheye 
Compact and dedicated SW!?!
Would appear to be a sure winner for those in the niche area and cheap enough for newbies to play with it - at least for initial rental. 
love that the tripod needs a lateral post extension. I wonder how long it needs to be to avoid tripod legs in frame


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> Canon delivers!
> 
> Amazing! Much more compact than I expected. I really like the ability to adjust the distance between the lenses, and to have an aperture of F2.8 available in such an optic is fabulous. If this is remotely affordable I can see it becoming a huge seller.
> 
> ...


No lens hood for this one  
Hard to avoid the sun in frame as well.
I imagine that most of the adult content will be indoor though


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## Etienne (Oct 6, 2021)

This is what innovation looks like!
Looking forward to seeing real world results, but this lens alone could justify choosing the Canon system over the competitors.
The creative possibilities seem very enticing.


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## DBounce (Oct 6, 2021)

Interesting for sure. I was thinking this was going to be some gimmick, but apparently it’s a high quality lens sporting the L branding. It looks intriguing, but I’m not the target market for this product. It would get used for the sake of getting used, then just gather dust on a shelf.


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## DBounce (Oct 6, 2021)

Etienne said:


> This is what innovation looks like!
> Looking forward to seeing real world results, but this lens alone could justify choosing the Canon system over the competitors.
> The creative possibilities seem very enticing.


Yes great porn lens.


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## bbasiaga (Oct 6, 2021)

chris_overseas said:


> Looking at 3:48 in that video, it seems that some of the image is lost due to each lens being visible in the image of its neighbour. Presumably that can be dealt with in post by cropping, but I wonder what the true resolution ends up being in the VR headset. It's surely not 8k.


Remember that 8k is only about 30mp....so there is room on that sensor for overlapping 8k fields from each lens. 

Brian


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## Etienne (Oct 6, 2021)

bbasiaga said:


> Remember that 8k is only about 30mp....so there is room on that sensor for overlapping 8k fields from each lens.
> 
> Brian


The video shows two distinct image circles, and each circle fills less than half of the sensor. Once stitched together, converted to rectilinear and cropped I suspect you'll be probably able to export a 4K image, which is still great.


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## john1970 (Oct 6, 2021)

Interesting lens and a fair price for its capability. Glad to see that Canon is innovating beyond the typical lenses. It is an interesting lens just not a lens that I am interested in. I see the software will be a subscription model similar to Adobe.


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## bsbeamer (Oct 6, 2021)

The EOS VR Plug-In for Adobe Premiere Pro sounds interesting.


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## Ozarker (Oct 6, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Yes great porn lens.


Not unless you're shooting elephants getting it on, or a Roman orgy reenactment. 35-50mm lens like this would be far better for that.


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## unfocused (Oct 6, 2021)

bsbeamer said:


> The EOS VR Plug-In for Adobe Premiere Pro sounds interesting.


I hope this puts to rest the claims of some on this forum that Canon and Adobe don't work together. Somehow, I doubt that it will, but I can hope.


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## unfocused (Oct 6, 2021)

john1970 said:


> ...I see the software will be a subscription model similar to Adobe.



Cue the complaints about "renting" software.


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## Ozarker (Oct 6, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I hope this puts to rest the claims of some on this forum that Canon and Adobe don't work together. Somehow, I doubt that it will, but I can hope.


One would be mistaken to think otherwise about any of the camera manufacturers. Of course they do.


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## unfocused (Oct 6, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Under $2k? Can't wait to see how this is used. So interesting!
> 
> ***We, on the forum, pretty much "screwed the pooch" on the price prediction for this lens.***


Yes, I was certainly wrong about the cost. Can I buy one lens for $1,000?


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## fasterquieter (Oct 6, 2021)

I hope this revives the VR180 format, which seems all but dead when it comes to new cameras you can buy.


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## unfocused (Oct 6, 2021)

I'm actually really ticked off about this lens. I hate it when Canon introduces a product that I have zero understanding of how it might work and how it might be used. It reminds me how old I really am. If Viewmasters were good enough when I was a kid, they should be good enough for the kids today. [/SARCASM]


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## H. Jones (Oct 6, 2021)

What an incredibly fascinating lens. The size of this is absolutely stellar--its super, super compact. If it had been a huge 11-24mm contraption, I think it would really limit the daily use market, but like they show in the material, it's so small and compact why not bring it with you?

I do wonder if there will be more of these lenses. It does seem like an opportunity to start with the pro model for professional users to start making high quality content, and then release a cheaper, consumer model for the everyday consumer who is interested in getting started in VR.

My other thought is--they talk about the R5 a lot, but once an 8k RF mount cinema camera comes out, this will make an incredible cinema mount option for professional VR in TV or movies.


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## imagesandbirds.com (Oct 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> I have some reservations about flare, which is apparent in the video, and means that the lens is probably best used when the front elements can be shielded from direct sunlight.



I imagine this lens rigged to a small videographic system that includes a mattebox anyway. So I think this problem will be easily overcome.

I am interested in seeing results from it, but I might have to wait a bit.


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## calfoto (Oct 6, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Not unless you're shooting elephants getting it on, or a Roman orgy reenactment. 35-50mm lens like this would be far better for that.


Are we to assume this tip is from personal experience?


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## DBounce (Oct 6, 2021)

No R3 support with this lens. Seems the only camera to use it with is the R5. I have a feeling the rumored R5C will be a perfect body for this lens.

Where is the VR sample footage?


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## melgross (Oct 6, 2021)

Canon seems to have a lot of resources in Oder to be able to produce so many different bodies and lenses out of the mainstream. Having full photo still and video lineups is no small feat these days.


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## TracerHD (Oct 6, 2021)

This would offer the posibillity of 3D images aswell.


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## raptor3x (Oct 6, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Can't wait to see how this is used. So interesting!


Porn. It's going to be used for VR porn.


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## Ozarker (Oct 6, 2021)

raptor3x said:


> Porn. It's going to be used for VR porn.


Obviously, this is outside of my experience portfolio. I have no idea how that works.


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## markphoto (Oct 6, 2021)

Interesting lens. Does this mean an RF fisheye version of the 8-15mm Is coming?


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## Bonich (Oct 6, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


This lens remembers me about some analog stereoscopic work my grandpa did in the early 60s: 
- Mirrors/prisms to bring two lenses's pictures to one single slide.
- Watching them either in a viewer giving way to half a picture per eye or projected to a screen with polarized light.
This was experimental amateurish work 60 years ago.

Now it is time this technology to be commercialized to give us plenty of chances for great content to be viewed via VR equipment.

Looking forward the creator's work!


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## vladk (Oct 6, 2021)

Paid subscription model means Canon expects a very small number of lenses produced and sold to studios.
I was interested in buying the lens as enthusiast for shooting occasional 3D video clips of nature, but monthly payments to Canon for such occasional use are no go for me.
But the lens looks cool, more like PoC for a new market exploration.


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## Del Paso (Oct 6, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Not unless you're shooting elephants getting it on, or a Roman orgy reenactment. 35-50mm lens like this would be far better for that.


Buy 2 lenses and get a free Roman Orgy Deluxe!


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## Ozarker (Oct 6, 2021)

calfoto said:


> Are we to assume this tip is from personal experience?


Yup


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## StandardLumen (Oct 6, 2021)

TracerHD said:


> This would offer the posibillity of 3D images aswell.


Not just possibility, that's really the whole point of having two lenses on it. 3D is part and parcel of "VR."


I wasn't even remotely interested in this lens when CR first reported it, but I've been won over by Canon's approach and importantly also the price. Pre-ordered.


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## takesome1 (Oct 6, 2021)

If this is going to be used for porn, as many have said, I have a question.
It mentions you need a Oculus Quest 2 to utilize the videos.
So I looked up the Oculus and it has two hand controls.
My question is what do you do with the hand controllers when watching the videos?


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## takesome1 (Oct 6, 2021)

StandardLumen said:


> I wasn't even remotely interested in this lens when CR first reported it, but I've been won over by Canon's approach and importantly also the price. Pre-ordered.


Lets not forget the other reason to buy it, the partner in your life might be suspicious if you just bought the Oculus Quest 2 to watch videos on the internet.
If you have the lens you can say you bought it to review your videos.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 6, 2021)

StandardLumen said:


> Not just possibility, that's really the whole point of having two lenses on it. 3D is part and parcel of "VR."
> I wasn't even remotely interested in this lens when CR first reported it, but I've been won over by Canon's approach and importantly also the price. Pre-ordered.


Are you concerned about needing one of Canon’s “…two paid subscription-based software solutions as available options for completing the post-production process?”


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## StandardLumen (Oct 6, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Are you concerned about needing one of Canon’s “…two paid subscription-based software solutions as available options for completing the post-production process?”


A little. I pretty much hate subscription services in general. I'm still a little miffed at Adobe for going subscription-only. Just have to hope that the price is reasonable, and need to stay on top of cancelling it when not actively using it.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> Canon delivers!
> 
> Amazing! Much more compact than I expected. I really like the ability to adjust the distance between the lenses, and to have an aperture of F2.8 available in such an optic is fabulous. If this is remotely affordable I can see it becoming a huge seller.
> 
> ...


£2000 is a bit expense for a niche lens (unless I'm not understanding this lens) and could same effects be achieved by Canon's UWA RF 2.8 lens ?. Anyway good the waking giant is innovating and is clearly no one in FF ML world with APS to transition to RF in 2022. Hopefully the other big 2 Sony and Nikon can develop more good glass and camera bodies - we are all winners here


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 6, 2021)

Its a great piece of innovation from Canon they should be applauded. As for the paid subscription its no different to Adobe or GoPro cloud service. Most professional video editing suites are a continuous paid service so I see no issue for such a niche product.


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## AJ (Oct 6, 2021)

So on an R or RP which crop in video mode, this lens would be only useful for stills. Did I get that right?


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## Stig Nygaard (Oct 6, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Where is the VR sample footage?



There's a sample video here:






To to view the VR180 video stereoscopically (in 3D), do:

- Oculus Quest, Quest 2, or other VR headset: use the YouTube app in your VR headset and look for this video.
- With a Google Cardboard viewer: use your smartphone’s YouTube app (not browser). When the video loads, tap on the Google Cardboard icon and insert your phone in your Google Cardboard viewer.

(Instructions copied from 360rumors.com - Haven't tried myself. Cannot find my Google Cardboard)


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## lexptr (Oct 6, 2021)

An old Idea but so well made! Lite, small, weather sealed! Definitely goes to my wishlist.
But one thing make the good news not so good. Subscription for the software? Seriously? What next? Will we pay for software in the camera and it will become a brick if not paid? Imo it is a wrong way. Some people compare with Adobe, which have subscription. It is not comparable to the software from Adobe. Adobe earns money from software only. Canon is a hardware company. The software required for the product should be in the price of the product.


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## entoman (Oct 6, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> £2000 is a bit expense for a niche lens (unless I'm not understanding this lens) and could same effects be achieved by Canon's UWA RF 2.8 lens ?. Anyway good the waking giant is innovating and is clearly no one in FF ML world with APS to transition to RF in 2022. Hopefully the other big 2 Sony and Nikon can develop more good glass and camera bodies - we are all winners here


£2000 is a lot of money for *anything*, but photography is an expensive hobby, and there are plenty of people spending much greater sums on niche lenses such as 400mm F2.8 or 600mm F4 for bird photography.

Last year I spent £2000 on a 24mm tilt/shift lens, and it is now one of my favourite and most frequently used optics.

I don’t think the price will stop this bug-eyed RF being a huge seller, as it opens up new areas of creativity in both stills and video photography.

I’d absolutely love to have one, but I have other photographic priorities - a 180mm F4 stabilised RF macro would be far more valuable for me.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I hope this puts to rest the claims of some on this forum that Canon and Adobe don't work together. Somehow, I doubt that it will, but I can hope.


We are still waiting for Canon colour profiles in Lightroom.. that would appear to an example of where Canon and Adobe are not working together


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## entoman (Oct 6, 2021)

AJ said:


> So on an R or RP which crop in video mode, this lens would be only useful for stills. Did I get that right?


Not sure about that. The separation between the 2 lenses in the dual fish eye can be adjusted, which might be enough to compensate for the smaller dimensions of APS-C. The angle of view would of course be narrower than the normal 180º, but it could probably still be used for VR videos.

*EDIT*: I think I may have misunderstood the announcement video - the adjustment seems (?) to be something to do with fine-tuning the focus accuracy, not to adjust the spacing of the two lenses, which is fixed. Sorry for any confusion…


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## unfocused (Oct 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> We are still waiting for Canon colour profiles in Lightroom.. that would appear to an example of where Canon and Adobe are not working together


Yes, you are correct about that. I have no idea why this issue has never been resolved. But, I should clarify that I'm not saying that Canon and Nikon work together on *everything*, I am simply saying that this rebuts the claims that others have made that Canon and Adobe *never* work together because Canon considers Adobe a competitor to Canon's own free photo editing software, which is what others on this forum have claimed.

This is the second documented example I have seen where the two companies worked together and publicly acknowledged they are doing so. I would imagine that when it suits both companies, they have no problem working together as I don't think either one considers the other a competitor. 

I have no suggestion as to the missing color profiles. It could be a lack of cooperation, or it could simply be a lack of interest on the part of either Adobe or Canon.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Yes, you are correct about that. I have no idea why this issue has never been resolved. But, I should clarify that I'm not saying that Canon and Nikon work together on *everything*, I am simply saying that this rebuts the claims that others have made that Canon and Adobe *never* work together because Canon considers Adobe a competitor to Canon's own free photo editing software, which is what others on this forum have claimed.
> 
> This is the second documented example I have seen where the two companies worked together and publicly acknowledged they are doing so. I would imagine that when it suits both companies, they have no problem working together as I don't think either one considers the other a competitor.
> 
> I have no suggestion as to the missing color profiles. It could be a lack of cooperation, or it could simply be a lack of interest on the part of either Adobe or Canon.


The missing colour profles seems to be a unique problem with the R5 ie other cameras have them. I haven't found any significant problems using the Adobe profile but others are quite vocal about it and use Color Fidelity ones or have moved to C1 or DXO Photolab


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## JohnC (Oct 6, 2021)

I wouldn't have thought this previously, but I might just need to have one of these. Pretty neat.


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## unfocused (Oct 6, 2021)

JohnC said:


> I wouldn't have thought this previously, but I might just need to have one of these. Pretty neat.


Perhaps this should be a new thread, but I'm really curious how people imagine using this lens (lenses). 

Watching the dance video in 2D I thought, well this is interesting with the ability to scroll through the scene, but that could be accomplished with a single lens. So, the main purpose of the dual lenses would be to add the third dimension to the footage using an 3D viewer. Then, I wondered if the 3D viewers were really catching on, or if they are more of a passing fancy. There have been many, many efforts to use 3D in the past and it seems like they all tend to fade over time. After a sudden flurry of 3D movies, I'm not sure I've seen many hit theaters lately (of course, nothing has hit the theaters for the past year). 

Now, I applaud Canon for making this lens and making it affordable. I suspect they are tossing it out there and waiting to see what young creatives do with it. 

I'm curious how those who produce video envision using this lens.


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## DBounce (Oct 6, 2021)

Stig Nygaard said:


> There's a sample video here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn’t look great in VR. I wish they had not gone crazy with the disco lights. Colors look bad… but then again who knows how much of that is due to the Oculus Quest that I’m using? I need to see more footage.


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## JoeDavid (Oct 6, 2021)

I’m wondering if Canon is also talking with Apple. The rumors have Apple investing $$$ in AR and VR tech and have at last 2 products in the pipeline for release next year. If the Apple faithful jump on it in mass that could ramp up the demand for VR content…


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## TracerHD (Oct 6, 2021)

StandardLumen said:


> Not just possibility, that's really the whole point of having two lenses on it. 3D is part and parcel of "VR."
> 
> 
> I wasn't even remotely interested in this lens when CR first reported it, but I've been won over by Canon's approach and importantly also the price. Pre-ordered.


At least canon need to offer a software Part to use it at it full Potential. Would be realy cool.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 6, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Perhaps this should be a new thread, but I'm really curious how people imagine using this lens (lenses).
> 
> Watching the dance video in 2D I thought, well this is interesting with the ability to scroll through the scene, but that could be accomplished with a single lens. So, the main purpose of the dual lenses would be to add the third dimension to the footage using an 3D viewer. Then, I wondered if the 3D viewers were really catching on, or if they are more of a passing fancy. There have been many, many efforts to use 3D in the past and it seems like they all tend to fade over time. After a sudden flurry of 3D movies, I'm not sure I've seen many hit theaters lately (of course, nothing has hit the theaters for the past year).
> 
> ...


I have an idea I will pitch to a client when I better understand the workflow. They are a mid sized property developer and I can see VR home tours being a useful addition to their sales offices. Much better than the current ‘interactive’ virtual tours currently being pushed.


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## JohnC (Oct 7, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Perhaps this should be a new thread, but I'm really curious how people imagine using this lens (lenses).
> 
> Watching the dance video in 2D I thought, well this is interesting with the ability to scroll through the scene, but that could be accomplished with a single lens. So, the main purpose of the dual lenses would be to add the third dimension to the footage using an 3D viewer. Then, I wondered if the 3D viewers were really catching on, or if they are more of a passing fancy. There have been many, many efforts to use 3D in the past and it seems like they all tend to fade over time. After a sudden flurry of 3D movies, I'm not sure I've seen many hit theaters lately (of course, nothing has hit the theaters for the past year).
> 
> ...


I may not understand it well "yet" but to me it looks like and extremely wide and pretty well corrected view, which I think may be interesting to play with.


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## unfocused (Oct 7, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I have an idea I will pitch to a client when I better understand the workflow. They are a mid sized property developer and I can see VR home tours being a useful addition to their sales offices. Much better than the current ‘interactive’ virtual tours currently being pushed.


Yes, I was thinking that this would be of use in real estate. Based on the Canon video, it seems that you could share a video that allows the potential customer to scroll around in 2D, but if they want to and have a 3D viewer, they can view the same footage in 3D and get a much more immersive experience. I imaging this could also be combined with drone footage or even mount the rig on a large drone to extend the 3D experience to the exterior. 

I few years ago, we hired a company to do a virtual tour of the college, that allowed potential students to scroll around various buildings on campus. It was very similar to the video Canon produced when viewed in 2D. I'm guessing that students who have grown up on digital content would be very receptive to a 3D campus tour.


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## InchMetric (Oct 7, 2021)

lexptr said:


> Adobe earns money from software only. Canon is a hardware company. The software required for the product should be in the price of the product.


Don’t be too sure that Canon doesn’t need to pay royalties to someone else.


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## Bdbtoys (Oct 7, 2021)

Edit 10/10/21 after I reread the announcement. I mistakenly watched the video and based the conclusion from that info alone.

The video doesn't really talk about the paid subscription outside of the Adobe's PP (thru plugin, which itself might be free)... and doesn't point fact to the other paid service being Canon's own EOS VR Utility (that one would have assumed would be included/free like the EOS Utility or DPP).

You shouldn't have to buy any software to do basic workflows. If this turns out the be the case in that you can only use this with a sub, I am definitely passing on it.


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## vangelismm (Oct 7, 2021)

No mention of dual pixel raw? One frame for each lens so no resolution is lost?


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## Jethro (Oct 7, 2021)

vangelismm said:


> No mention of dual pixel raw? One frame for each lens so no resolution is lost?


Interesting!


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## Bennymiata (Oct 7, 2021)

When I was a kid in the 60's, my father gave me his old Exacta Varex SLR and he also had the 3D adaptor for it.
This consisted of a screw-on mirrored adaptor for the 50mm lens and it also had a stereo viewer that replaced the penta prism so you could see and focus in 3D.
The camera is long gone, but I've still got lots of 3D colour slides and a viewer.

Let's hope this new lens sells well and then they can bring out other focal lengths.


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## Antono Refa (Oct 7, 2021)

chris_overseas said:


> Looking at 3:48 in that video, it seems that some of the image is lost due to each lens being visible in the image of its neighbour. Presumably that can be dealt with in post by cropping, but I wonder what the true resolution ends up being in the VR headset. It's surely not 8k.



The patent says the image height (= radius) is 8.75mm. So each image circle covers 240mm^2, or about a quarter of the 864mm^2 full frame sensor. (240/864)*44.8 = 12.4MP. More than enough for 4K (ignoring distortion correction), but certainly not enough for 8K.


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## Chig (Oct 7, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Yes, I was thinking that this would be of use in real estate. Based on the Canon video, it seems that you could share a video that allows the potential customer to scroll around in 2D, but if they want to and have a 3D viewer, they can view the same footage in 3D and get a much more immersive experience. I imaging this could also be combined with drone footage or even mount the rig on a large drone to extend the 3D experience to the exterior.
> 
> I few years ago, we hired a company to do a virtual tour of the college, that allowed potential students to scroll around various buildings on campus. It was very similar to the video Canon produced when viewed in 2D. I'm guessing that students who have grown up on digital content would be very receptive to a 3D campus tour.


Would this be good for wedding videos ?


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## LogicExtremist (Oct 7, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Under $2k? Can't wait to see how this is used. So interesting!
> 
> ***We, on the forum, pretty much "screwed the pooch" on the price prediction for this lens.***


Under $2K in the US, so using Canon's typical international pricing that will be over $4K in Canada and Australia! Slap the lens on a R5 which sells for $6K in the latter locations and you have a $10K VR setup!


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## LogicExtremist (Oct 7, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> In the Canon USA video they sure mentioned "paid subscription service" a lot. And only provided 3rd party support for, you guessed it: a paid subscription service, from Adobe.


Yes, it said "Canon is currently developing two paid subscription-based software solutions as available options for completing the post-production process." 

Buy the lens, then rent the software to use it! Canon have gone for the Adobe cash-grab option here. 

It's a rather curious situation where you can buy a lens that needs additional software to be able to use it, but that software doesn't come with it, and you can't buy it either, you can only access it by incurring an additional ongoing cost.

That magical $2K USD price isn't the real outlay, and depending on what Canon will be charging to rent the software, you'd be wanting to be shooting a lot of 180-degree VR video regularly to justify the ongoing expense. If you're a big video production house, the cost might be nothing at all though.


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## LogicExtremist (Oct 7, 2021)

JoeDavid said:


> I’m wondering if Canon is also talking with Apple. The rumors have Apple investing $$$ in AR and VR tech and have at last 2 products in the pipeline for release next year. If the Apple faithful jump on it in mass that could ramp up the demand for VR content…


I hope Canon is not talking to Apple, otherwise the R1 will be glued shut, with a non-removable battery and memory card. It will come with various memory options, each costing many times more than the actual value of the cards lol!


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

For those that have asked yes the lens does 3D, that’s why it has two optics. But it also does more than that.

If you use a headset, which can be an Oculus or just a simple Google Cardboard box that your smartphone slots into. You get a video were you the watcher have the ability to look around the frame. Given the 190deg angle of view this provides you are able to see all the way to the left and right and up and down. As I said that is controlled by the person watching the video, not the one recording it.

As someone said, you could shoot house interiors and let people look in any direction, all in 3D, unlike the current flat rotatable VR tours that are offered.

I’ve also seen such systems used in cars to record customers laps in around a circuit in say a Ferrari. You would be able to look out of the window or at the dashboard to see the speedo. Just by pointing your head in that direction. The headset figures your head movements and shows you the correct angle of view.


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## SnowMiku (Oct 7, 2021)

The lens sounds like a great idea and most seem to be very happy with the price. The one thing I don't like is that you have to have a subscription to process the images and videos, if you are running a business that does this type of work regularly it won't be a problem but if you are hobbyist that just wants to use this lens occasionally it's going to be a pain to cancel the subscription or just to keep paying for it even though you don't use the lens that often.

I'm wondering what this subscription idea would mean for future releases of Canon's Digital Photo Professional, will DPP 5 only be available on subscription with future generation cameras? I hope not.


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

entoman said:


> Canon delivers!
> 
> Amazing! Much more compact than I expected. I really like the ability to adjust the distance between the lenses, and to have an aperture of F2.8 available in such an optic is fabulous. If this is remotely affordable I can see it becoming a huge seller.
> 
> ...


You cannot charge the distance between lenses. Only the focus difference between eyes.


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Under $2k!?! cheaper than 2x 8-15mm fisheye
> Compact and dedicated SW!?!
> Would appear to be a sure winner for those in the niche area and cheap enough for newbies to play with it - at least for initial rental.
> love that the tripod needs a lateral post extension. I wonder how long it needs to be to avoid tripod legs in frame


Given the angle of view is 190degrees. It can see backwards. The distance requires will vary with the height above the ground.

If I’ve done the maths right the distance should be given by:

height / cos(10) x sin(10)

where 10 is in degrees. For a height of 60” (5 foot) it should come out as 10.6”. [height / cos(10) provides the hypotenuse of the triangle, and sin(10) the length of the base. The top angle being 10 degrees past the 180 upright. If the camera is not level the angle changes. Point up it decreases, down it increases. ]


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

AJ said:


> So on an R or RP which crop in video mode, this lens would be only useful for stills. Did I get that right?


Yes as the image circle fills half the frame the crop would fail to record significant parts of the video.

The left side of the left eye, the right side of the right eye. All of the top and bottom would be gone.

Given that the right side of the left eye and the left side of the right eye can only see the other lens the results would be poor indeed.


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> Would this be good for wedding videos ?


In a way. You could film the first dance, pointing at the couple, for example. You could then watch it back and see what uncle bob was doing in the corner at the time. On second thoughts maybe not such a good idea 

But joking aside. You would get a 3D video of the dance and the ability to see the audience.


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

Bennymiata said:


> Let's hope this new lens sells well and then they can bring out other focal lengths.


As this lens is aimed at VR it’s very unlikely to be produced in other focal lengths. 5.2mm is what is required to give the 190degree angle of view required for VR.

Something like 50mm version would only be a 3D lens, not a VR one. Unless it sells in large quantities and then is only ever used for 3D I can’t see them making others.

I suppose if the talk of an APS-C camera come to life we could see a crop version released. That would have to be 3.25mm to do the same job!


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## Del Paso (Oct 7, 2021)

Canon's strength has always been about innovating.
I don't understand this lens, and I'll certainly never need it, unlike several or many others.
But if you need it, you'll have to enter the Canon biotope, no chance for Sony/Panasonic/Fuji users.
And, according to what I've read on this forum, there will be a demand for such an exotic lens. Good for the RF system!


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## unfocused (Oct 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> Would this be good for wedding videos ?


I may be missing something, but I wonder if it might be too intrusive for many wedding couples. It's a fisheye so the videographer would have to be pretty close to the subjects during the ceremony and reception and positioning would be important. If you care more about the wedding video than you do about the actual wedding, it might be okay.


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> The patent says the image height (= radius) is 8.75mm. So each image circle covers 240mm^2, or about a quarter of the 864mm^2 full frame sensor. (240/864)*44.8 = 12.4MP. More than enough for 4K (ignoring distortion correction), but certainly not enough for 8K.


I agree I can’t see how they can get 8K from half the sensor. Given the left and right will overlap when rendered.

Unless they are using half pixels as whole ones. I.e. left and right sides of the dual pixel to double the horizontal resolution. It would be the first time such a thing had been done, to my knowledge.

It would surely darken the image as only half as much light would hit each half pixel. interesting idea though.


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I may be missing something, but I wonder if it might be too intrusive for many wedding couples. It's a fisheye so the videographer would have to be pretty close to the subjects during the ceremony and reception and positioning would be important. If you care more about the wedding video than you do about the actual wedding, it might be okay.


It’s never going to be a lens for close up work. Wide angles are very bad at that, unless you are trying to film Pinocchio. It would be more about capturing the whole room, wall to wall and allowing the viewer to look around where they wanted. I’m not sure it would be used for the wedding service, as it would preclude the photographer being in front of the camera, making the more traditional shots very difficult to achieve at the same time. I would think that the goal of a wedding photographer is to not be in their own shots.


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## Antono Refa (Oct 7, 2021)

Ian K said:


> I agree I can’t see how they can get 8K from half the sensor. Given the left and right will overlap when rendered.
> 
> Unless they are using half pixels as whole ones. I.e. left and right sides of the dual pixel to double the horizontal resolution. It would be the first time such a thing had been done, to my knowledge.
> 
> It would surely darken the image as only half as much light would hit each half pixel. interesting idea though.


My understanding is the lens projects two 17.5mm tall (circular) images side by side. The real world view overlaps, but each image gets a separate part of the sensor to be projected on. Software is used to combine the two images into a 3D model of the scene. AFAIK, the model's resolution can't exceed that of each image, which is well under 8K.


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## InchMetric (Oct 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> Would this be good for wedding videos ?


I was imagining that because of the ability to effectively pan in post.
But 3D?


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## pauloancarvalho (Oct 7, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> I was imagining that because of the ability to effectively pan in post.
> But 3D?


It will be fantastic for weddings, dance shows, skateboarding, vlogs, everything you can imagina filming with a wide angle and then reframing in post. I love the GoPro MAX because of that reason, although it's very time consuming in post, keep that in mind. I'm very excited for this lens!


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## koenkooi (Oct 7, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> My understanding is the lens projects two 17.5mm tall (circular) images side by side. The real world view overlaps, but each image gets a separate part of the sensor to be projected on. Software is used to combine the two images into a 3D model of the scene. AFAIK, the model's resolution can't exceed that of each image, which is well under 8K.


The Canon app will de-fish the fisheye images and give you a "rectilinear 180" 8k image, consisting of both viewpoints merged/stitched. So each side is "double" 4k, with the centers having that actual resolution and the edges having way, waaaaay less resolution.


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## InchMetric (Oct 7, 2021)

Ian K said:


> In a way. You could film the first dance, pointing at the couple, for example. You could then watch it back and see what uncle bob was doing in the corner at the time. On second thoughts maybe not such a good idea
> 
> But joking aside. You would get a 3D video of the dance and the ability to see the audience.


My thought is that this all is obtainable with a conventional fisheye lens without the dubious need for 3D.


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## koenkooi (Oct 7, 2021)

Ian K said:


> For those that have asked yes the lens does 3D, that’s why it has two optics. But it also does more than that.
> 
> If you use a headset, which can be an Oculus or just a simple Google Cardboard box that your smartphone slots into. You get a video were you the watcher have the ability to look around the frame. Given the 190deg angle of view this provides you are able to see all the way to the left and right and up and down. As I said that is controlled by the person watching the video, not the one recording it.[..]


I just assembled a google cardboard clone kit and watched some VR180 and VR360 clips on youtube. It was a lot more immersive and fun that I had been expecting for a €10 kit.
The Canon promo was a lot more impressive viewed that way.


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## entoman (Oct 7, 2021)

Ian K said:


> You cannot charge the distance between lenses. Only the focus difference between eyes.


Yep, I edited my post yesterday and apologised for the confusion…


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## skrubol (Oct 7, 2021)

About the subscription services, I assume (hope) that the output from the camera will still be a conventional file that will be readable by many video editors. I'm sure there are open source video editors (or at least non-subscription) that can deal with splitting the image, de-fisheye-ing, and re combining the result, it might just not be as smooth a workflow, and may not correct the distortion as well as the official workflow.
I wonder what the firmware update will be for, making selecting AF easier? Ability to just show one side on the viewfinder (zoomed appropriately?)


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## Antono Refa (Oct 7, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> The Canon app will de-fish the fisheye images and give you a "rectilinear 180" 8k image


De-fishing can't make pixels out of nothing. Like upscaling, it will work nicely close to the center, but the corners will look mushy.

Also, de-fishing takes time, which would require more hardware and/or time, limiting its usability for video and real time.


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## koenkooi (Oct 7, 2021)

skrubol said:


> [..]I wonder what the firmware update will be for, making selecting AF easier? Ability to just show one side on the viewfinder (zoomed appropriately?)


It's a manual focus lens....


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## Ian K (Oct 7, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> My understanding is the lens projects two 17.5mm tall (circular) images side by side. The real world view overlaps, but each image gets a separate part of the sensor to be projected on. Software is used to combine the two images into a 3D model of the scene. AFAIK, the model's resolution can't exceed that of each image, which is well under 8K.


I agree. But suggested a way they could still achieve 8K, which they are claiming


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## LogicExtremist (Oct 7, 2021)

Ian K said:


> In a way. You could film the first dance, pointing at the couple, for example. You could then watch it back and see what uncle bob was doing in the corner at the time. On second thoughts maybe not such a good idea
> 
> But joking aside. You would get a 3D video of the dance and the ability to see the audience.


If you used it for weddings, with the 190 degree view, which allows you to see 10.6" backward when held up at 5 feet high as you calculated, you'll also be able to get a great shot of the photographer's shoes!


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## landon (Oct 7, 2021)

Looks cool.
So it's not $50? Ohhhh, $50 is the subscription fees


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## Nemorino (Oct 7, 2021)

Bennymiata said:


> When I was a kid in the 60's, my father gave me his old Exacta Varex SLR and he also had the 3D adaptor for it.


The first camera with two lenses for stereoscopic pictures was announced in 1849! But it is still a niche. Maybe with the VR stuff it is getting more successfull.


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## pauloancarvalho (Oct 8, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> If you used it for weddings, with the 190 degree view, which allows you to see 10.6" backward when held up at 5 feet high as you calculated, you'll also be able to get a great shot of the photographer's shoes!


You just reframe it, like a GoPro MAX or any other 360º camera. In fact, you'll need to do it anyway for distortion correction.


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## SonicStudios (Oct 8, 2021)

Looks amazing, be fun to experiment with R5 and Ninja V+. Not really bothered by subscription based post prod, their not alone


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## chasingrealness (Oct 8, 2021)

This kind of thinking says interesting things about what may be to come in the ILC market. I may be wrong but I think it could be argued that the pandemic made widespread adoption of VR or VR-adjacent experiences much more viable.


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## LogicExtremist (Oct 9, 2021)

pauloancarvalho said:


> You just reframe it, like a GoPro MAX or any other 360º camera. In fact, you'll need to do it anyway for distortion correction.


Thanks, I was only joking. Many people taking snapshots of things on the ground with their ultrawide smartphones do great shoe photography!


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## pauloancarvalho (Oct 9, 2021)

LogicExtremist said:


> Thanks, I was only joking. Many people taking snapshots of things on the ground with their ultrawide smartphones do great shoe photography!


So true!


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## Australisblue (Oct 11, 2021)

This looks like an interesting lens/es. Just my curiosity, I assume the 3D effect would become less and less effective the more you rotate from what was directly in front of the lens during recording as the lenses effectively become closer and closer together the greater the angle?


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## Bdbtoys (Oct 11, 2021)

The Canon VR Utility should be included with the cost of the lens. If there isn't an open (non-pay) solution to processing images, this lens went from "I could get this and have fun with it" vs "I can't justify the continued cost to just have fun with it"... especially on a lens that costs what this does. If it turns out the only way to use images is with the subscriptions , I am definitely passing on it.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Oct 11, 2021)

Finally had a chance to watch the video.

The construction of this lens is basically a small pair of binoculars:

- Folded optical path using prisms
- Manual focus band adjusts both lenses
- Left-right different adjustment "dial"

I put the word "dial" in quotes because that's what he calls it in the video, but he's using a small tool to adjust it. The Canon USA product page says the lens includes a hex wrench.


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## manwithafrotto (Oct 13, 2021)

Stig Nygaard said:


> There's a sample video here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is there a higher quality version to download and view on my quest 2? This video looks like absolute garbage in VR, from I am assuming youtubes compression.


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## StandardLumen (Oct 14, 2021)

manwithafrotto said:


> Is there a higher quality version to download and view on my quest 2? This video looks like absolute garbage in VR, from I am assuming youtubes compression.


I don't know if there is a higher quality version, but you are right that it looks like garbage, and also that it is from compression. Whether or not it is youtube's compression or something Canon did is hard to say. I definitely occurred to me when watching that it was weird of Canon to use such a poor quality video for a lens advertisement.


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