# Industry News: Leica announces the M10 Monochrom



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 17, 2020)

> The highly anticipated camera enters a new dimension of innovation in the world of monochrome photography
> *January 17, 2020* – Leica Camera continues to be a trailblazer in the world of black-and-white photography with the announcement of the new Leica M10 Monochrom. Photographers are now able to explore their subjects in vivid tones of monochrome due to the omission of a color filter, resulting in an unparalleled black-and-white photography experience. The newly developed 40-megapixel true black-and-white sensor, new Wi-Fi capabilities, and expanded ISO range make room for added creativity with light and contrast, bringing photographers back to the basics with the most up-to-date technology.
> 
> Black-and-white photography lends itself to establishing emotional connections between the photographer and the subject matter being conveyed. With the absence of color, a photograph conveys intense, vulnerable and timeless messages that speak to...



Continue reading...


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## IcyBergs (Jan 17, 2020)

"Highly anticipated" by about 200 people


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## cayenne (Jan 17, 2020)

While I"m sure out of my price range (especially since I just got a mac pro for this years expenditures).....I'm curious about this.

I've been exploring B&W photography with film lately, Hasselblad 501 CM and Yashicha Mat 124G.....and have an interest in it.

This blurb mentioned one of the driving points of this monochrome camera was the "omission of a color filter'....can someone explain this to me and what it means different shooting on this camera vs a normal full spectrum modern camera sensor?

I thought it was just a sensor picking up photons and translating them. Is there some sort of optical color filter in front of the sensor or coating or something?

I"m just wanting to get a sense in the digital world, what would be the difference of shooting regular color on modern sensors vs this sensor?

Thanks in advance!!

cayenne


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## gcl (Jan 17, 2020)

cayenne said:


> While I"m sure out of my price range (especially since I just got a mac pro for this years expenditures).....I'm curious about this.
> 
> I've been exploring B&W photography with film lately, Hasselblad 501 CM and Yashicha Mat 124G.....and have an interest in it.
> 
> ...



Here's a short description of the difference between a monochrome sensor and the color filter arrays (Bayer, Xtrans) used on most full color digital cameras:

https://www.red.com/red-101/color-monochrome-camera-sensors

And something else you might find interesting for dedicated B&W work:





__





Monochrome conversion of Sony mirrorless cameras


Over 100 monochrome converisons and counting! Beautiful B&W images are not difficult using a converted Sony digital camera. All models, old or new, can be converted.




www.monochromeimaging.com


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2020)

I love the jpegs you get with the X-Trans sensor but they have to be very low iso. So, with Canon use RAW on one card/Jpeg on the other, shoot with the M Picture Style for preview sake, play with the sliders and think B&W, think contrast....compare, contrast and finalize your RAW in post. 

See? Another reason for 2 cards!


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## cayenne (Jan 17, 2020)

gcl said:


> Here's a short description of the difference between a monochrome sensor and the color filter arrays (Bayer, Xtrans) used on most full color digital cameras:
> 
> https://www.red.com/red-101/color-monochrome-camera-sensors
> 
> ...




Thank you that'll give me some good light lunch reading.


Whist I'm pondering the information on these links.....how does one go about getting good, sharp focus on these types of rangefinder cameras, where you aren't looking through the lens to see what focus is like throughout the picture?

Good guesses? 

I've never shot a rangefinder before and am curious....

Again, thanks in advance,

C


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Thank you that'll give me some good light lunch reading.
> 
> 
> Whist I'm pondering the information on these links.....how does one go about getting good, sharp focus on these types of rangefinder cameras, where you aren't looking through the lens to see what focus is like throughout the picture?
> ...


Don't the modern bodies (evf especially) compensate for parallax and give you an outline of your framing?


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## gcl (Jan 17, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Thank you that'll give me some good light lunch reading.
> 
> 
> Whist I'm pondering the information on these links.....how does one go about getting good, sharp focus on these types of rangefinder cameras, where you aren't looking through the lens to see what focus is like throughout the picture?
> ...



Rangefinder focusing cameras like the Leica M cameras have a bright patch in the center of the view finder - there is a double image when out of focus and as you turn the focusing ring on the lens barrel in the correct direction the two images will come together. When they have been joined completely together to form a single image - you are in focus (assuming the rangefinder is properly aligned, of course!).


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## cayenne (Jan 17, 2020)

gcl said:


> Rangefinder focusing cameras like the Leica M cameras have a bright patch in the center of the view finder - there is a double image when out of focus and as you turn the focusing ring on the lens barrel in the correct direction the two images will come together. When they have been joined completely together to form a single image - you are in focus (assuming the rangefinder is properly aligned, of course!).



Oh...that's interesting!! I wonder how that works with it not going through the lens?
C


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## Del Paso (Jan 17, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> "Highly anticipated" by about 200 people


Totally wrong, many more, actually !


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## Del Paso (Jan 17, 2020)

slclick said:


> Don't the modern bodies (evf especially) compensate for parallax and give you an outline of your framing?


Indeed, they've been doing so since the 1950s, when the Leica M 3 was introduced.


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## Del Paso (Jan 17, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Oh...that's interesting!! I wonder how that works with it not going through the lens?
> C


Mechanical coupling between the lens and the rangefinder's cam.


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## PureClassA (Jan 17, 2020)

LOL!!! $8300 Dude... seriously.


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## Cryhavoc (Jan 17, 2020)

Me no Leica that price.


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## Kit. (Jan 17, 2020)

gcl said:


> (assuming the rangefinder is properly aligned, of course!).


Does it have AFMA?


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> LOL!!! $8300 Dude... seriously.


At least it leaves us with some cash left over for lenses.


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## Del Paso (Jan 17, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Does it have AFMA?


The rangefinder cam can be adjusted, with the adequate Allen key.
If a bit skilled, by owner (quite easy, but a little time-consuming), if not, by service. Since no AF, no AFMA, of course.
PS: The M lenses from 35 mm focal length can be used with great results on the R or RP cameras...but not the wider angle lenses (magenta cast on sides of picture).


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 18, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> "Highly anticipated" by about 200 people



Actually, 199 ... I changed my mind !!

But for people with an extra $20,000 for bodies and lenses, I wish them plenty of satisfaction.


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## slclick (Jan 18, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> Actually, 199 ... I changed my mind !!
> 
> But for people with an extra $20,000 for bodies and lenses, I wish them plenty of satisfaction.


I see no reason why they would have anything but.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 18, 2020)

I cancelled my preorder, it only has one card slot!


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## flip314 (Jan 18, 2020)

I hope they're launching with a complete range of B+W lenses, otherwise this will be ******* to failure!


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## Ozarker (Jan 18, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I cancelled my preorder, it only has one card slot!


Certainly can't be a professional's camera with just one slot.


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## Berowne (Jan 18, 2020)

Most people today use smartphones or automatic cameras for taking photos. It is somewhat similar to a Kodak Instamatic. I remember well, my father purchased an Instamatic 100 in the mid 1960ies and made a lot of Kodakchromes with it. This was a "point and click"-Camera, very popular and used in a similar way compared to contemporary automatic cameras - you can take photos and dont care about focus and metering. Very easy. 

Now Rangefinder Cameras, like the Kodak Retina, which was produced until 1969 became increasingly unpopular in this time. The reason was simply, that it was more difficult to use, you have to set focus, aperture and shutter speed. This has not changed much until today. Rangefinders are somewhat inconvenient. And with the advent of small SLR's, the first being the Kine Exakta and later on the immensly popular Canon SLR's (the FX) and also the nice Minolta SRT cameras, people wanted the TTL (through the lens) concept. 

But there are advantages of a Rangefinder: they are small, silent and there is no blackout in the optical viewfinder. So if this is important for you, a Leica M is an option. And if you do not want to spend a lot of money, there are many inexpensive used analog Rangefinders.


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## Del Paso (Jan 18, 2020)

The trouble with Leica's current pricing is that it simply discourages many enthusiasts, resulting in them getting sold to collectors and "money-people", for showing-off.
This wasn't always the case, Leicas were never cheap, but were far more accessible than nowadays.
I owned at least 14 Leicas, M and R, often used ones, and have never been rich. The lenses are simply wonderful!
But today, with a good income, it wouldn't be easy without suffering from hunger, to buy a new M with 4 or 5 luminous lenses...sad !


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## Berowne (Jan 18, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> The trouble with Leica's current pricing is that it simply discourages many enthusiasts, resulting in them getting sold to collectors and "money-people", for showing-off.
> This wasn't always the case, Leicas were never cheap, but were far more accessible than nowadays.
> I owned at least 14 Leicas, M and R, often used ones, and have never been rich. The lenses are simply wonderful!
> But today, with a good income, it wouldn't be easy without suffering from hunger, to buy a new M with 4 or 5 luminous lenses...sad !



Similar with me Del Paso, and my son has now two M's after he discoverd how beautiful Dad's Leicas are.  

When it is about the prize-range, one should consider, that Canon, Nikon and Sony professional FF-Cameras and Superteles are similar expensive as the Leica Bodies and Lenses. There is not so much difference.


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## sanj (Jan 18, 2020)

I wish someone does a comparison between this and a 5d4. I mean how different would the result from this be different in the hands of someone who is great at photoshop. Curious!


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## BeenThere (Jan 18, 2020)

Sorry I sold all of my colored lens filters many years ago. Now all I can do is move color sliders in software when converting my color images to B& W.


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## Berowne (Jan 18, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Sorry I sold all of my colored lens filters many years ago. Now all I can do is move color sliders in software when converting my color images to B& W.



But you know, that there is no colour in your silicon. The signal from the sensor is always black and white and initially all digital cameras were "monochromes". The colour comes from the Color filter array (Bayer-Filter) on the sensor.


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## slclick (Jan 18, 2020)

In the right hands....

I frequently see stereotypes concerning these types of cameras. As if they are only being used by disposable income idiots. That can't simply be true, DII's have much crazier ways to dispose of their income, usually someone who purchases a Monchrom is capable of understanding black and white composition, tonal range, framing and shadows. I have a very good friend who has one and the results SOOC are stellar. It looks as if someone DID spend time with the image in LR or Ps. They are not for every shoot but when I am in the B&W mindset I truly wish I had one. But, I have kids in college.


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## BeenThere (Jan 18, 2020)

Berowne said:


> But you know, that there is no colour in your silicon. The signal from the sensor is always black and white and initially all digital cameras were "monochromes". The colour comes from the Color filter array (Bayer-Filter) on the sensor.


Yeah, but that one is built into the camera. No need to carry a pack of screw-ins of various sizes and colors.


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## jedy (Jan 18, 2020)

slclick said:


> I love the jpegs you get with the X-Trans sensor but they have to be very low iso. So, with Canon use RAW on one card/Jpeg on the other, shoot with the M Picture Style for preview sake, play with the sliders and think B&W, think contrast....compare, contrast and finalize your RAW in post.
> 
> See? Another reason for 2 cards!


I often shoot RAW on one card and jpeg in the other as you can’t reorder by file type on one card when importing to an phone/tablet with a card reader. Often if the jpegs are good enough I’ll give the card to family and friends to upload to their phone without the RAW files getting in the way.


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## Eldar (Jan 18, 2020)

I have shot Canon since the mid seventies and I still do. However, a few years back I turned my attention away from wildlife, birds and action and more towards portraits, street, travel and more artistic photography. I added a Hasselblad H6D-100c and a Leica M10 to my gear (which I have way too much of). Currently I shoot less than 10% of my time with Canon (when things move fast or I need longer lenses), probably around 30% with Hasselblad (for things that don´t move, I have time and I have a tripod) and the rest with Leica. Strange is it not, considering all the things it can´t do? However, when you learn how to master the rangefinder and learn to appreciate the simplicity of the M concept, the experience of working with the Leica and their absolutely gorgeous lenses, is a very rewarding experience. 

I also know a lot of Leica shooters and the claim that all Leica shooters are show offs with tons of money is totally wrong. What the ones I know have in common is being very enthusiastic and dedicated photographers. If you want to make pictures with a Leica, beyond what you can get from your phone, you have to use it a lot. These people do. The second hand market is very good and the gear hold its value very well.

When I show up with my 1DX-II and any of the white lenses, I get lots of looks and lots of questions about my gear. I have to date not received a single long look or a single question about my Leica. The M10 monochrome is even built to be stealth. No logo, no visible text. Not much of a show off. Yes, they have colorful collectors items, which Seal may bring to a gig, but I have never seen one in use.

About 70% of my pictures are already B&W (I grew up with film and a dark room, doing nothing but B&W). To me, this camera is very tempting. Yes, it is very expensive, but to turn it around, the M10 is the same price as a 1DX-III, without all the functionality I don´t need/want (video for one), in a small and stealthy hand made body, with double resolution, higher dynamic range, cleaner noise patterns (if what I have seen so far turns out to be true), with the best to-the-point menu system I have seen and jewel like small and fantastic lenses. (Look at the APO50 Summicron. That tiny lens is the world´s best 50mm for full frame). 

The M10 monochrome will be a massive success for Leica. If you try to buy one, you will end up in a queue and it will take months before you´ll get it. It is also worth mentioning that Leica is a financially very healthy company, unlike many of the others.


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## padam (Jan 18, 2020)

Eldar said:


> Look at the APO50 Summicron. That tiny lens is the world´s best 50mm for full frame.


Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 50 introduced with Sony E-mount, which is probably just as sharp and not much different in size while focusing closer and with electronic support (for 7x less). Leica set the bar 6 years earlier, but in the future we could see other exciting small lenses for other three mirrorless mounts (which in theory could be an even stronger base than the M-mount or E-mount)
Of course if the rumors are true, Leica will push M-lens development even further still for even higher resolution, but others could be catching up if the demand is really there for these kinds of optics.

The M10M has no competition though (and it won't have in the foreseeable future either), so they can price it however they like.


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## Del Paso (Jan 18, 2020)

Eldar said:


> I have shot Canon since the mid seventies and I still do. However, a few years back I turned my attention away from wildlife, birds and action and more towards portraits, street, travel and more artistic photography. I added a Hasselblad H6D-100c and a Leica M10 to my gear (which I have way too much of). Currently I shoot less than 10% of my time with Canon (when things move fast or I need longer lenses), probably around 30% with Hasselblad (for things that don´t move, I have time and I have a tripod) and the rest with Leica. Strange is it not, considering all the things it can´t do? However, when you learn how to master the rangefinder and learn to appreciate the simplicity of the M concept, the experience of working with the Leica and their absolutely gorgeous lenses, is a very rewarding experience.
> 
> I also know a lot of Leica shooters and the claim that all Leica shooters are show offs with tons of money is totally wrong. What the ones I know have in common is being very enthusiastic and dedicated photographers. If you want to make pictures with a Leica, beyond what you can get from your phone, you have to use it a lot. These people do. The second hand market is very good and the gear hold its value very well.
> 
> ...



I guess that many Leica critics have never held an M or taken pictures with it, but Leica -bashing is so popular...
Anyway, I love mine (M 240), and use it almost every day !


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## Berowne (Jan 18, 2020)

I guess no one who ever had a Leica M or Rangefinder-Lens in his hand will believe how tiny they realy can be.


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## jedy (Jan 18, 2020)

padam said:


> Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 50 introduced with Sony E-mount, which is probably just as sharp and not much different in size while focusing closer and with electronic support (for 7x less). Leica set the bar 6 years earlier, but in the future we could see other exciting small lenses for other three mirrorless mounts (which in theory could be an even stronger base than the M-mount or E-mount)
> Of course if the rumors are true, Leica will push M-lens development even further still for even higher resolution, but others could be catching up if the demand is really there for these kinds of optics.
> 
> The M10M has no competition though (and it won't have in the foreseeable future either), so they can price it however they like.


Sony’s advantage is they share focus information so no third party reverse engineered lenses. I think it will be quite some time before there’s as an extensive lineup of manual lenses for other mounts. The Voigtlander E mount lineup has taken five years to get where it is now and there’s no sign of any other mount interest as yet. I do hope Canon can produce two excellent cameras this year and garner more interest from other lens companies and not just big autofocus lenses.


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## padam (Jan 18, 2020)

jedy said:


> I think it will be quite some time before there’s as an extensive lineup of manual lenses for other mounts. The Voigtlander E mount lineup has taken five years to get where it is now and there’s no sign of any other mount interest as yet.


They have the standard and close-focusing VM-RF adapters coming in a few months (probably), so slowly but surely they will come out with native lenses as well by the time these systems start to mature.
Samyang has started making RF lenses with AF, Sigma will follow as well, so manual lenses shouldn't be difficult to implement either.


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## cayenne (Jan 19, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> LOL!!! $8300 Dude... seriously.



Plus one of the main new lenses for it...I think the fast 90mm is over $13K.

:O


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## slclick (Jan 19, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Plus one of the main new lenses for it...I think the fast 90mm is over $13K.
> 
> :O


Canon does the same thing. Lens more expensive than bodies. Just a different scale.


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## cayenne (Jan 19, 2020)

slclick said:


> Canon does the same thing. Lens more expensive than bodies. Just a different scale.



Yeah,but for the Canon $$$ lenses, you are gonna really be able to reach out and "touch" someone with them...LONG expensive tele lenses.

This $13K one I'm talking about is like a 90mm Leica lens.

Looks beautiful, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it is in the same price league for type of lens you're talking about Canon putting out....

Again, just my observations...

C


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## slclick (Jan 19, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Yeah,but for the Canon $$$ lenses, you are gonna really be able to reach out and "touch" someone with them...LONG expensive tele lenses.
> 
> This $13K one I'm talking about is like a 90mm Leica lens.
> 
> ...


like I said different scale, never said just price


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## Berowne (Jan 19, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Plus one of the main new lenses for it...I think the fast 90mm is over $13K.
> 
> :O



It is not one but two lenses: the 1.25/75mm Noctilux and the new 1.5/90mm Summilux, my local Leica-Dealer offers them for 11.900 €. 

Cayenne, you should remember, that this can be the price-range of contemporary highly corrected fast primes. The Nikkor-Z 58mm/0.95 is offered by my local Everything-Dealer for 8999 €. (given the notion, that only very few of these lenses are on the market, my guess is that this is a Dumping-Price). 

And second, it was Canon who started the "ultra-fast primes" race, not Leica with the Canon 50mm f/0.95 from 1961. And this was BTW a Rangefinder-lens for the Canon 7 camera. One of the many Canon-Rangefinder Cameras, which was also introduced in 1961. It can be modified with an M-Mount and you can use it with a modern Leica M (photo stolen from Steve Huff). Prices are moderate (2000 - 2500 €). 

Canon 7 (Canon Camera Museum) 
Canon 50mm f/0.95 (Canon Camera Museum)


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## Eldar (Jan 19, 2020)

I believe the only way you can look at these specialized Leica lenses is the way you look at watches. Why pay $25k for an IWC, when you can get a rock solid Seiko for 1/10th of the price? In these cases, you pay for quality, exclusivity and label. It is a bit like buying one of the limited editions of a Leica camera or lens, which may cost you 2-3 times the camera and lens they are based on. In my view total rubbish, but these collector´s items has shown to increase in price, so it has nothing to do with a photographer´s priorities.
I have the APO90 Summicron f/2.0, which is a fantastic lens, compared to everything else I have, including Otus 85. This lens is still expensive, but you get almost 3 for the price of the Summilux. I have not tried the summilux, but I seriously doubt I will see much improvement.


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## Del Paso (Jan 19, 2020)

I recall the time when, as a proud Nikon F2 owner, I bought a used Leica M5 with 4 lenses, dirt cheap!
Then, after a vacation in France, I checked the Kodachromes (yes, I'm that old!).
Next day, I went to the local dealer, sold the F 2 (Greatest SLR ever), all my Nikkors, to buy a Leicaflex SL with 28, 50 and Apo 180mm.Later on came lenses from 21 to 560 mm...M and R.
The Nikon lenses had no chance compared to the Summicrons, Summilux, Elmarits & co., with the exception of the R 28 mm, which is quite weak.
Also, mechanically speaking, the Nikkors WERE poorly made, in comparison.
In the meantime, Japanese lensmakers have tremendously improved the quality of their production, and yet...
As to Leica, the later SLRs (R 4, R 5 etc...) lagged behind the Canons and Nikons in features and quality.
But the lenses are still a world apart, and the M remains a wonderful camera.
I'd suggest that before bashing the Monochrome for instance, you enter a Leica store to play with it for a few minutes, the change your mind, and rob the next bank!


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## Berowne (Jan 19, 2020)

Del Paso, the SL is a wonderful camera, such a bright viewfinder. I love mine and have taken thousand of slides with it (nearly all with a 90/2.8 Elmarit). But i am not longer doing analog photos. After the end of Kodakchrome, i was increasingly dissapointed by the quality of the development of slide films and i did not want to make E-6 laboratory work by my own, too difficult, too expensive. Now in the end, i am absolutely happy with the 6D & 85 1.4 IS, it is an ideal combo. And honestly the digital SL & the new 90mm APO-Cron is way too expensive for me. 

Re the Monochrom, one should remember, that there are very few alternatives. The only one I know is the Monochrome-Back for Phase-One, my local dealer offers a XF with the 150 MP Achromat for only 52.000 € and you have to wait for three months. I am realy curious about the result of the new M, considering, that a Bayer-Filter in fact reduces the 20 MP of my 6D to poor 5 MP. What luck, that nobody knows it!


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## danski0224 (Jan 19, 2020)

Berowne said:


> Re the Monochrom, one should remember, that there are very few alternatives. The only one I know is the Monochrome-Back for Phase-One, my local dealer offers a XF with the 150 MP Achromat for only 52.000 € and you have to wait for three months. I am realy curious about the result of the new M, considering, that a Bayer-Filter in fact reduces the 20 MP of my 6D to poor 5 MP. What luck, that nobody knows it!




Sigma Foveon or Quattro cameras lack a Bayer color filter array and excel at monochrome.

The interchangeable lens Sigma digital cameras can do full spectrum after removing the dust filter (hot mirror). With the exception of the SD9, the dust filters come out without tools. They are fragile, and some model replacements are no longer available.

The sdQuattro is the only interchangeable lens version with live view, and the live view can be configured to display a monochrome image.

These cameras are not without some shortcomings, but it is certainly a much lower cost alternative choice.


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## slclick (Jan 19, 2020)

danski0224 said:


> Sigma Foveon or Quattro cameras lack a Bayer color filter array and excel at monochrome.
> 
> The interchangeable lens Sigma digital cameras can do full spectrum after removing the dust filter (hot mirror). With the exception of the SD9, the dust filters come out without tools. They are fragile, and some model replacements are no longer available.
> 
> ...


I would own a Quattro if it were not for the horrid ergonomics. I do not mind how slow it is, the strange button placement or lack of high iso use. It would be a 2nd body purely for artistic and landscape shooting. But that grip!


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## danski0224 (Jan 19, 2020)

Which Quattro (or other sensor version)? Fixed lens (dp) or mirrorless interchangeable lens camera (sd)? 

Sigma has alternated between sd/SD and dp/DP.

I do not have a dp series Quattro, however I think the sd Quattro has fantastic ergonomics. 

People that actually use the dp series Quattros (vs look at them) seem to love them.


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## slclick (Jan 19, 2020)

SD Quattro. I have held one, not used one. Also, ergonomics are incredibly subjective and personal. I am intrigued by the DP series yet they are such a niche product and if I was spending on specialized cameras as such to supplement my standard gear I might as well be buying into the Leica ecosphere as primary! Had to circle back to the original post


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## Berowne (Jan 19, 2020)

The problem with the Sigma quattro is the SA-mount (44mm flange distance), guess it will not survive. The Foveon-Technology is nevertheless promising, perhaps we will see it again within the L-Mount-Alliance.


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## slclick (Jan 19, 2020)

Berowne said:


> The problem with the Sigma quattro is the SA-mount (44mm flange distance), guess it will not survive. The Foveon-Technology is nevertheless promising, perhaps we will see it again within the L-Mount-Alliance.


I would like to test it out with the hand grip, both standard and large sized. However there are no shops in 700+ miles who carry Sigma! Might have to do an Amazon Prime buy just to play with one. Ugh nevermind, no viewfinder and that modular add on is larger than the body.


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## Del Paso (Jan 19, 2020)

Berowne said:


> Del Paso, the SL is a wonderful camera, such a bright viewfinder. I love mine and have taken thousand of slides with it (nearly all with a 90/2.8 Elmarit). But i am not longer doing analog photos. After the end of Kodakchrome, i was increasingly dissapointed by the quality of the development of slide films and i did not want to make E-6 laboratory work by my own, too difficult, too expensive. Now in the end, i am absolutely happy with the 6D & 85 1.4 IS, it is an ideal combo. And honestly the digital SL & the new 90mm APO-Cron is way too expensive for me.
> 
> Re the Monochrom, one should remember, that there are very few alternatives. The only one I know is the Monochrome-Back for Phase-One, my local dealer offers a XF with the 150 MP Achromat for only 52.000 € and you have to wait for three months. I am realy curious about the result of the new M, considering, that a Bayer-Filter in fact reduces the 20 MP of my 6D to poor 5 MP. What luck, that nobody knows it!


Hi Berowne!
Same for me, the end of Kodachrome and Ektachrome meant for me too the end of argentic photography .
Still in love with the SL and SL 2 Mot, but the new ones are too expensive for me as well.
My new favorite combo is the EOS 5 DIV and 1,4/85 IS...  plus M 240 and Summilux Asph.35.
But I was heavily drooling in the Leica store on the new SL 2 , some day...


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## danski0224 (Jan 19, 2020)

slclick said:


> SD Quattro. I have held one, not used one. Also, ergonomics are incredibly subjective and personal. I am intrigued by the DP series yet they are such a niche product and if I was spending on specialized cameras as such to supplement my standard gear I might as well be buying into the Leica ecosphere as primary! Had to circle back to the original post



A sdQ and a few Global Vision lenses can be had for less than just the Leica camera alone. Same goes for the SD1M (the SD1M has been officially discontinued by Sigma).

The set of DP cameras can also be had for less than just the Leica camera.

It may not be the same, but the entry fee is more reasonable. As much as part of me would like the Leica, I don't see it happening.


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## danski0224 (Jan 19, 2020)

slclick said:


> Ugh nevermind, no viewfinder and that modular add on is larger than the body.



The only Sigmas with an actual viewfinder is the sd/SD series (DSLR or mirrorless sdQ/H).


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## danski0224 (Jan 19, 2020)

Berowne said:


> The problem with the Sigma quattro is the SA-mount (44mm flange distance), guess it will not survive. The Foveon-Technology is nevertheless promising, perhaps we will see it again within the L-Mount-Alliance.



Sigma is no longer producing SA mount camera bodies.

The fp is a video-centric camera with a Bayer based sensor, L mount.

There is an upcoming 1:1:1 Foveon "full frame" camera that is supposed to be released in 2020, also with an L mount. The 2019 release was postponed.


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## StoicalEtcher (Jan 19, 2020)

flip314 said:


> I hope they're launching with a complete range of B+W lenses, otherwise this will be ******* to failure!


Haven't had a chance to visit my dealer yet and check it out, but knowing Leica's track record, I suspect they will be producing Black and Silver lenses, rather than Black and White ones..


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2020)

danski0224 said:


> A sdQ and a few Global Vision lenses can be had for less than just the Leica camera alone. Same goes for the SD1M (the SD1M has been officially discontinued by Sigma).
> 
> The set of DP cameras can also be had for less than just the Leica camera.
> 
> It may not be the same, but the entry fee is more reasonable. As much as part of me would like the Leica, I don't see it happening.


Thanks. I was referring to it being my 2nd body+ glass in addition to my Canon setup. Therefore all total as much or more than a nice Leica kit.


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 20, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> "Highly anticipated" by about 200 people


Nah, there are more rich Chinese people who carry around a Leica as a gadget, not as a photographic tool - I see them frequently in Frankfurt/Germany.


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 20, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Indeed, they've been doing so since the 1950s, when the Leica M 3 was introduced.


Yup, plus Canon's and Nikon's rangefinders produced in the later 1950s and 1960s, e.g. my Canon 7 has a parallax-correcting viewfinder. Besides all the sarcasm here, the new Leica M10 surely is a wonderfully handcrafted camera able to produce beautiful b&w images, but indeed only for a small market (they know that in Wetzlar, and Leica is profitable today, they survived their crisis). Btw such rangefinders with that fine optomechanics, produced by Canon or Nikon again, wouldn't be cheap cameras today, I guess. They weren't back in the great days of rangefinders, because their production is quite complex.


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 20, 2020)

gcl said:


> Rangefinder focusing cameras like the Leica M cameras have a bright patch in the center of the view finder ...


I found this one on http://leicaphilia.com/how-a-rangefinder-works/. The two red beams produce together the shifting image in the central rangefinder patch in the viewfinder: if both images overlap, your motive is in focus. To achieve that, the lens with the blue arrows on the right side is shifted, it is mechanically coupled by a sort of pin with the lens and its focusing ring. The yellow beam indicates how the frame is mirrored in the viewfinder window, and this one here is parallax controlled (blue double arrow in the middle). This requires quite sophisticated mechanics. Btw modern viewfinders adapt the frame automatically to the lens attached (my New Mamiya 6 from the 1990s has this feature), with older viewfinders like the Canon 7 you have to select the fitting frame manually. If you are well trained to use a mechanical focusing rangefinder, you can shoot street in a flow and get quite reliable in-focus results.


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## Viggo (Jan 20, 2020)

My brother has had everything Leica, including several 0.95’s and a couple of Mono’s and they are spectacular. I wish I could afford one in addition to an AF body. The files from the Mono are crazy sharp and detailed. Focusing is super easy, except for everything that moves. But focusing the 0.95 isn’t any harder and it’s very fast.


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## tmroper (Jan 20, 2020)

Berowne said:


> Most people today use smartphones or automatic cameras for taking photos. It is somewhat similar to a Kodak Instamatic. I remember well, my father purchased an Instamatic 100 in the mid 1960ies and made a lot of Kodakchromes with it. This was a "point and click"-Camera, very popular and used in a similar way compared to contemporary automatic cameras - you can take photos and dont care about focus and metering. Very easy.
> 
> Now Rangefinder Cameras, like the Kodak Retina, which was produced until 1969 became increasingly unpopular in this time. The reason was simply, that it was more difficult to use, you have to set focus, aperture and shutter speed. This has not changed much until today. Rangefinders are somewhat inconvenient. And with the advent of small SLR's, the first being the Kine Exakta and later on the immensly popular Canon SLR's (the FX) and also the nice Minolta SRT cameras, people wanted the TTL (through the lens) concept.
> 
> But there are advantages of a Rangefinder: they are small, silent and there is no blackout in the optical viewfinder. So if this is important for you, a Leica M is an option. And if you do not want to spend a lot of money, there are many inexpensive used analog Rangefinders.


Leicas aren't silent. Some, like the M9, are actually pretty loud.


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## FramerMCB (Jan 20, 2020)

gcl said:


> Rangefinder focusing cameras like the Leica M cameras have a bright patch in the center of the view finder - there is a double image when out of focus and as you turn the focusing ring on the lens barrel in the correct direction the two images will come together. When they have been joined completely together to form a single image - you are in focus (assuming the rangefinder is properly aligned, of course!).


Matt Granger just did a short video about this new M Monochrome (has actually has the older version that he bought second-hand - and loves it). You nailed it about these focus. Apparently you can also buy an external EVF that fits in the hot shoe like what Canon has for many of their "M" line of cameras.


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## FramerMCB (Jan 20, 2020)

slclick said:


> At least it leaves us with some cash left over for lenses.



It depends how much cash one has on hand... One could have a great compact kit with their 75mm Noctilux f1.2 ASPH, the 50mm Noctilux f0.95 ASPH, and the 35mm Summilux f1.4 for $14.5K, $12.5K, and $6.1K respectively and it would only set you back around $41,000USD (using current B&H prices).


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2020)

FramerMCB said:


> It depends how much cash one has on hand... One could have a great compact kit with their 75mm Noctilux f1.2 ASPH, the 50mm Noctilux f0.95 ASPH, and the 35mm Summilux f1.4 for $14.5K, $12.5K, and $6.1K respectively and it would only set you back around $41,000USD (using current B&H prices).


Might have to split it over 2 credit cards. Love how B&H allows this


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## danski0224 (Jan 20, 2020)

slclick said:


> Thanks. I was referring to it being my 2nd body+ glass in addition to my Canon setup. Therefore all total as much or more than a nice Leica kit.



I guess it depends on how much glass you want to buy...


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## danski0224 (Jan 20, 2020)

FramerMCB said:


> It depends how much cash one has on hand... One could have a great compact kit with their 75mm Noctilux f1.2 ASPH, the 50mm Noctilux f0.95 ASPH, and the 35mm Summilux f1.4 for $14.5K, $12.5K, and $6.1K respectively and it would only set you back around $41,000USD (using current B&H prices).



That's a deal at twice the price.

I'll have to get one kit for each of my residences.


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## beachcolonist (Jan 20, 2020)

If you become educated in digital imaging you learn that there is no one proper conversion process for color to b&w and for many images the best look is different conversion of the color channels in different areas of the image. Therefore if you want to be completely creative and get the best possible results in B&W, you shoot color simply to capture all the light on the scene, you then convert to B&W in Photoshop on a per image basis. This allows for instance the creation of Ansel Adams style deep dark skies, while retaining the most appealing skin tones in the same image, the two being diametrically opposed conversions. In short to be able to create great B&W you must start with full color. So while this camera is non doubt a fine thing and wonderful to own, it's not the path to the best possible B&W.


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## briangus (Jan 21, 2020)

I have an M246 called MimI, a wonderful little camera though she can be a be a little bit difficult at times.
75mm F2, 50mm F1.4, 35mm F2.8 and a 21mm SEM only neatly tucked up in a small bag.
The size does belie the weight as camera and lenses are heavy.

Not so sure about colour filter usage as an earlier test I done showed no difference.
Was also advised against using a red filter - orange being the new red.
Maybe will revisit testing again.


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## Eldar (Jan 22, 2020)

tmroper said:


> Leicas aren't silent. Some, like the M9, are actually pretty loud.


The M10-P and the M10 Monochrom are VERY quiet


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## Tremotino (Jan 26, 2020)

I would love it if Canon would develop a b/w sensor camera based on the eos R. It shouldn't be that difficult to just leave out the color filters and leave the rest the same.

A question to the more tech experts: if you take the bayer sensor and leave the color filters, do you have mor b&w pixels since you need 3 bayer photodiodes to generate the information for one pixel or are pixels in a bayer sensor sharing the diodes with their neighbours?


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## StoicalEtcher (Jan 27, 2020)

Tremotino said:


> I would love it if Canon would develop a b/w sensor camera based on the eos R. It shouldn't be that difficult to just leave out the color filters and leave the rest the same.


Well,

If they are willing to make an 'astro' special, with what that entails, perhaps a B&W special is entirely possible. I expect the biggest reasons not to though are:

Deemed limited market (though does;t stop the Ra nor Lieca obviously - though they may be making larger profit on theirs....); and
The argument that you can get B&W output already given post-processing, so why not have both (colour & B&W) in one camera (though, again, Leica seem fine to do so...) (And there are the quality benefits raised in this thread).

Would still be interesting...... I'd be tempted.

Stoical.


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## cayenne (Jan 27, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Well,
> 
> If they are willing to make an 'astro' special, with what that entails, perhaps a B&W special is entirely possible. I expect the biggest reasons not to though are:
> 
> ...



From what I read on the Leica new camera, they developed a new B&W only sensor from the ground up for this release.

I don't know the tech, but it seems they are claiming that being designed ONLY as B&W, gives some advantages for the resultant images since they don't have to bother with the color pixels....

C


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## stevelee (Jan 27, 2020)

I made some of the best photos I have ever made with a Yasicha rangefinder camera. I don’t recall ever having any problems with focus. The fixed lens was 45mm, so that helped. By using one focal length all the time, my brain became accustomed to the coverage, so I could frame the shot in my mind before I looked into the camera. I haven’t used a rangefinder camera since I sold it 50 years ago.

I couldn’t afford a Nikon F in those days, but I recall they had interchangeable focusing screens. At least one choice had a rangefinder-like center section for accurate focusing.


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## Del Paso (Jan 27, 2020)

beachcolonist said:


> If you become educated in digital imaging you learn that there is no one proper conversion process for color to b&w and for many images the best look is different conversion of the color channels in different areas of the image. Therefore if you want to be completely creative and get the best possible results in B&W, you shoot color simply to capture all the light on the scene, you then convert to B&W in Photoshop on a per image basis. This allows for instance the creation of Ansel Adams style deep dark skies, while retaining the most appealing skin tones in the same image, the two being diametrically opposed conversions. In short to be able to create great B&W you must start with full color. So while this camera is non doubt a fine thing and wonderful to own, it's not the path to the best possible B&W.


Results obtained with the Monochrome prove you're absolutely wrong!
Go and test the Leica Monochrome and you'll see...


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## cayenne (Jan 28, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Results obtained with the Monochrome prove you're absolutely wrong!
> Go and test the Leica Monochrome and you'll see...




SO far, from what I've seen on the images put out by testers, it does look like some amazing shots are coming out of those things.....

C


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## ValleyofCarbon (Jan 28, 2020)

SwissFrank said:


> The textbook answer is hyperfocal focusing. I don't have a chart in front of me but just to make up some numbers that are vaguely real-worldish, on a sunny day with 100 ISO film (or camera sensor) I can use the "sunny 16" rule and set f/16. At f/16, if I set the lens to 2m, then everything about 1m to infinity is in focus (on say a 28mm or 35mm). I literally don't touch the focus any more until sundown. If there's something in front of me, I'll get a sharp photo just by tripping the shutter. With a cable release this is good for street photography as you can be close to a subject and take a photo with the camera hanging around your neck and hands in your pockets.
> 
> More generally, the lenses will have marks showing what the range of focus is. 35mm and below you'd just use hyperfocus (setting the extreme end of the focus range at infinity). At 50mm or in darker conditions, you can't get the entire focus range perhaps, but you can look down at the top of the lens and focus it for a subject anyway.
> 
> ...



This is only true in limited circumstances... for a dedicated RF shooter focusing is not really an issue. I can get very sharp images by focusing with the TAB (that finger thingy)very quickly. I tend to shoot street a little more often at hyper-focal about 25% of the time but often lighting and film dictate how you're going to focus with analog Leicas. With the M10 you have a bit more leeway in the decision with ISO change.


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## Bennymiata (Jan 28, 2020)

Personally, I don't like B&W.
In the old days, I shot lots of monochrome pictures on film, but I often wanted to take colour photos but I couldn't develop them myself.
I wouldn't buy a monochrome camera today and indeed of my many tens of thousands of shots, maybe I've converted less than a dozen of them into B&W images.


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## beachcolonist (Jan 30, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Results obtained with the Monochrome prove you're absolutely wrong!
> Go and test the Leica Monochrome and you'll see...


I cannot be "wrong" because I'm simply stating a fact not an opinion. Why do you think color filters are used for b/w film photography?


Del Paso said:


> Results obtained with the Monochrome prove you're absolutely wrong!
> Go and test the Leica Monochrome and you'll see...


No, they do not. All you post proves is that you cannot read for content.


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