# Sony does it again, A7 II with 5-axis in-body stabilization



## Aglet (Nov 20, 2014)

NOW we're getting somewhere! A machine like this will temp even me to try out a Sony body... with lots of lens adapters.

www.sony.jp/ichigan/products/ILCE-7M2/

translated at SAR forum:

www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a77i-officialy-announced-in-japan/

for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes.

This is a product I wish Ricoh-Pentax would have put out... 2 years ago.

Higher-end A-9 model still rumored for early 2015, Hmmm...


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

Aglet said:


> for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes.



Oh my, the IS does sound appealing and is bound to rival Canon's hybrid IS on their newer 100L, 24-70L. But looking at the picture on the japanese site, the 5-axis version seems to need a generic, tc-like attachment?







Canon and their shareholders have to count on the old-school dslr crowd not jumping ship, looking at the speed Sony innovates Canon can nearly stop trying in the enthusiast-midrange market.


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## AvTvM (Nov 20, 2014)

*Sony on the rampage: A7 II official *

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a77i-officialy-announced-in-japan/

A7II specs (translated via google):
- 24.3 million pixels FF sensor
- 5-axis in body stabilization (same as the Olympus E-M1)
- LCD monitor 3.0-inch 1.23 million dot. 107 degrees up, and tilt 41 degrees below
- EVF 0.5-inch 2.36 million dot
- ISO100-25600 (extended with ISO50). Video ISO200-25600
- The shutter speed is 30 seconds -1/8000 seconds
- 270 sheets at the number of possible shots EVF use. LCD monitor when using 350 sheets
- Continuous shooting 2.5 frames / sec. When speed priority continuous shooting 5 frames / sec.
- Video XAVC S, AVCHD, MP4
- The battery is NP-FW50
- The size of 126.9mm x 95.7mm x 59.7mm
- Weight 599g (including battery and memory)
- Vertical position grip VG-C2EM (sold separately)
- Media Memory Stick PRO Duo / PRO-HG Duo / XC-HG Duo, SD / SDHC / SDXC (UHS-I compatible)

Release date for the camera is December 5.
Price is 190,000 yen (current conversion: 1300 Euro or $1,600). Although I am sure price in Dollar will be lower


... plus even higher specced A9 heavily rumored for early 2015. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a9/
Maybe with eye control AF 8) ... http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-eye-tracking-af-coming-in-2014/ 
YES! Count me in. 

Canon, Nikon ... mirrorslapper window is closing ... fast!


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

*Re: Sony on the rampage: A7 II official *



AvTvM said:


> http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a77i-officialy-announced-in-japan/



You're late, and since it's announced it's no rumor anymore but belongs in the gear talk section  ...
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23769.0


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

pbr9 said:


> Edit: it seems the adapter is for A-mount lenses.



Right, that makes sense. And the two divisions are for lenses that have internal IS (pitch/yaw) and for IS-less lenses that require the camera body to perform all 5 IS functions.



pbr9 said:


> What i'm curious about is how would this behave when using a image stabilized lens, if it's possible at all to gain any benefit from using say, a 4 stops rated IS lens in this 4.5 stop rated IBIS.



I'm rather critical of these IS "ratings" as IS is all about statistics, you cannot just say "saves 5 stops at all times". As far as I understand it, using an IS lens with the new camera simply adds more axis to compensate.


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## weixing (Nov 20, 2014)

Hi,


Marsu42 said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes.
> ...


 The TC-like attachment is the adapter for A-mount lens to the A7 II. I think what the picture show is that:
1) The pitch and yaw IS correction is perform in the E-Mount OSS lens when use with A7 II.
2) The 5-axis IS correction is all done in the A7 II when using E-mount non-OSS lens and A-mount lens via adapter.

Hmm... Is there any new innovation?? Only just a refresh of A7 with better specifications...
Anyway, at this rate of releasing upgrade (releasing upgrade model faster than Canon Rebel entry DSLR??), I don't think it's good for Sony and especially their technical support department... may be they don't intend to have one: Your camera not working... we just release a new one, go and get it. 

Have a nice day.


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Nov 20, 2014)

Sony entered the market with little to nothing. They had no market share. Commercial pros (sports, wildlife, illustration, corporate, wedding, portrait) and imaging artists could buy "better" gear from Canon or Nikon. Sony acquired Minolta/Konica and with them came certain technologies that Sony didn't have to develop in-house. Meanwhile, Sony put what appears to be a significant investment in sensor technologies. Finally, when Olympus' management team screwed up and had to sell the imaging group, Sony was able to pick up yet more technology.

At some point Sony would have to surpass the traditional camera manufacturers somehow, someway, right?

Sony's marketing team must be going nuts! with all this great "sizzle" they can sell. This kind of stuff is good attention grabbing material.

Perhaps more importantly, these things are actually useful technologies and can help solve a number of problems for Sony and bring them level with Nikon and Canon. I'm thinking in terms of Sony not having to invest in OSS development for their 70-400mm competitor to Canon's much-loved 100-400L. I'm thinking of all the vintage glass that now has image stabilization (as noted below).



Aglet said:


> NOW we're getting somewhere! A machine like this will temp even me to try out a Sony body... with lots of lens adapters...
> 
> ...for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes...
> 
> Higher-end A-9 model still rumored for early 2015, Hmmm...


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Nov 20, 2014)

It's this kind of innovation that has lead me to put my DSLR gear up for sale.

I recently picked up a Sony APS-C A6000 and confirmed that it can produce a (slightly) better image than my full frame 5D MkII. That's what six years of investment in sensor technologies can do for a company.

I'm blown away to see just how good a Sony A6000 image can be. Now they've announced serious in-body IS technologies and with Sony's 36mpixel already on the market for several years and with the rumored 46mpixel and 54mpixel FF sensors on the horizon... yikes! 

As I get older and as the weight, size, mass of DSLR gear becomes problematic I've wanted to downsize my gear but _not _downsize my image quality. I've proven to myself that this is possible with a mirrorless system. Like so many people, I'm absorbing the transition costs and jumping into a different set of gear.

It's painful as I never thought I'd feel this way as I've been a loyal Canon user for over 40 years. I've invested too many $$$'s to go through this, but what choice do I have if what I can put to better use is small, light, powerful and doesn't have a mirror-box?


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Nov 20, 2014)

I hope Sony puts all this interesting stuff into their soon to be released A7000. This at the rumored 50Euro more than current A6000 prices.   

I can't imagine what the A9 will be like. Well. I can. I'll Bet a Beer that they'll put their new 46mpixel sensor into it. ;D



Klaus_Kleber said:


> > It's this kind of innovation that has lead me to put my DSLR gear up for sale.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> I recently picked up a Sony APS-C A6000 and confirmed that it can produce a (slightly) better image than my full frame 5D MkII. That's what six years of investment in sensor technologies can do for a company.



Sensor tech will keep evolving, but a larger sensor means less dof with the same f-stop - that'll keep "full frame" running even if "full" is just a strange reminder of the film days.



ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> It's painful as I never thought I'd feel this way as I've been a loyal Canon user for over 40 years. I've invested too many $$$'s to go through this, but what choice do I have if what I can put to better use is small, light, powerful and doesn't have a mirror-box?



No doubt Canon will make the same switch sooner or later with DO lenses and their dual pixel af. They just don't want their current customers to know and keep on selling their mirror gear until the very last second. Imho there will be a market for maybe the next decade. A lot of people don't mind about heavy and large, it implies value and craftsmanship.

My guess is that there is a ~2 years time window for Canon do something about their product policy. If Sony keeps innovating at the same speed, about that time the difference to old-school dslr gear will be so large people might really jump ship rather than talk about it.


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Nov 20, 2014)

What convinced me to jump ship was Sony's A6000 IQ and price. 

For the cost of a single Canon 5D MkIII body I can buy 6 (SIX!) A6000's. Further, Sony gear offers a higher level of integration and more image making functions than Canon. Simply put, they're more flexible.

If reliability really is an issue... and yes, I use my equipment often enough that reliability issues will arise... well... at these kinds of prices... and with these kinds of small sizes and feather weights... I'll take two please! 

One as a backup, right? 




Klaus_Kleber said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > don't think it's good for Sony and especially their technical support department... may be they don't intend to have one: Your camera not working... we just release a new one, go and get it.
> ...


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Nov 20, 2014)

_About APS-C vs FF bokeh/DOF_ - a recently published portfolio of mine in Lenswork Magazine contains a number of images that I made with a small NEX5 and a Nikkor pre-Ai manual focus lens. The OOF rendition is so creamy smooth and luscious that people thought I might have used an old large format film camera and lens. I feel concerns about OOF rendition in APS-C vs FF may be overblown.

_About heavy and large having perceived value_ - I immediately thought of Cadillac (or whoever it was) putting lead in their doors to give them a customer satisfying "clunk" when they closed. Between friends we call this the "impressing strangers" effect (yes, we're all nerdy engineering types). Bigger and heavier means "better", right? 

_About talking jumping ship_ - You can put me down in the column of people who already have jumped ship. The only thing I have left to sell is my 7D/100-400L birding kit. The 5D MkII/24-105L studio kit (and a bunch of other L glass) are already sold. And with the in-camera IS Sony just announced, I can see a 70-400 Sony kit on will soon be on it's way. 

I'm only one small insignificant drop in a sea of millions of cameras sold each year, so I'm not tilting any balance any particular direction by doing what I'm doing. I just wish Canon gave me a compelling reason to stick around. The transition costs are significant.



Marsu42 said:


> Sensor tech will keep evolving, but a larger sensor means less dof with the same f-stop - that'll keep "full frame" running even if "full" is just a strange reminder of the film days...
> 
> ... A lot of people don't mind about heavy and large, it implies value and craftsmanship...
> 
> ... If Sony keeps innovating at the same speed, about that time the difference to old-school dslr gear will be so large people might really jump ship rather than talk about it.


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## AvTvM (Nov 20, 2014)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> ... the weight, size, mass of DSLR gear becomes problematic *I've wanted to downsize my gear but not downsize my image quality*. I've proven to myself that this is possible with a mirrorless system.



Exactly! 

I was just about ready to carve in and get yet another tired old Canon mirrorslapper (5D III) for my Canon glass, but now I'll definitely hold off any purchase until I see the Sony A9. It may well be 100% of what I am looking for: 
* even better, new sensor (= way better than any Canon sensor) 
* AF hopefully fully tracking capable 
* probably next gen electronic viewfinder ("Retina"-resolution and even less lag) 
* possibly a larger battery, holding more charge (500+ shots), 
* most likely a better shutter without maddening vibrations; hopefully fully electronic global shutter with crazy X-Sync 
* and possibly even eye control AF point selection http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-eye-tracking-af-coming-in-2014/ 8) , something Canon has abandoned for no apparaent reason

Sony lens range is also getting more attractive by the day ... that 16-35/4 sure is a nice lens, at least on par with the Canon. I'd be perfectly happy with the three f/4 zeiss zooms - 16-35/4, 24-70/4, 70-200/4 plus 55/1.8. Anything else can be had via adapter if needed ... e.g. tilt-shift. I don't use long teles anyway. Only open issue are my Canon 600EX-RT flashes ... let's hope Yongnuo,or Phottix will finally come to market with a little radio trigger that opens the RT-system for use with Sony bodies as well. 


Mirrorslapper window is closing really fast now on Canon and Nikon. 8)


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> _About heavy and large having perceived value_ - I immediately thought of Cadillac (or whoever it was) putting lead in their doors to give them a customer satisfying "clunk" when they closed. Between friends we call this the "impressing strangers" effect (yes, we're all nerdy engineering types). Bigger and heavier means "better", right?



This effect is not to be underestimated from a mass-marketing point of view - car manufacturers employ sound designers to make cheap cars sound cheap and vice versa. There are lots of customers out there who wouldn't want to buy a "gadget" even if the image quality and "objective" specs are better, and no doubts Canon will try to keep a large part of that old-school market share.


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## meywd (Nov 20, 2014)

I don't see how you can compare this with the 5D III, the 6D yes, and its in the same price range, A7 II has more MP and new technology while the 6D will still perform better in low light.


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## weixing (Nov 20, 2014)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> _About APS-C vs FF bokeh/DOF_ - a recently published portfolio of mine in Lenswork Magazine contains a number of images that I made with a small NEX5 and a Nikkor pre-Ai manual focus lens. The OOF rendition is so creamy smooth and luscious that people thought I might have used an old large format film camera and lens. I feel concerns about OOF rendition in APS-C vs FF may be overblown.
> 
> _About heavy and large having perceived value_ - I immediately thought of Cadillac (or whoever it was) putting lead in their doors to give them a customer satisfying "clunk" when they closed. Between friends we call this the "impressing strangers" effect (yes, we're all nerdy engineering types). Bigger and heavier means "better", right?
> 
> ...


 Every woman is beautiful and every man is handsome when seen alone, but when you start comparing side by side, some woman are more beautiful and some man are more handsome unless you are very good in makeup.... ha ha ha 

Anyway, I consider camera an expensive equipment and I usually only change once in many years unless there are some feature on the new model that I need, so for me, good technical support and after sales service is top priority. IMHO, Sony had many very good and interesting products, but their technical support is very bad (at least in my country)... the service center told me that they do not have power adapter and LCD screen replacement for a notebook that just run out of warranty, so cannot repair and this had happen not once, but quite a few times. For me, I won't buy any Sony product that cost more than double digits.

Have a nice day.


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## AvTvM (Nov 20, 2014)

meywd said:


> I don't see how you can compare this with the 5D III, the 6D yes, and its in the same price range, A7 II has more MP and new technology while the 6D will still perform better in low light.



... this is why I will wait for the Sony A9 to come. With new, even better sensor. 8)


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## idene (Nov 20, 2014)

Aglet said:


> A machine like this will temp even me to try out a Sony body...



My first DSLR was a Sony A100 followed by a Sony A350. 

Had it not been for the price of the lenses and scarcity of them, I'd have kept going as a Sony shooter. The photos straight out of the camera are amazing in comparison to Canon.


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## TomazK (Nov 20, 2014)

I wonder what the IBIS will do to the battery life ?


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

TomazK said:


> I wonder what the IBIS will do to the battery life ?



It's not like Canon's in-lens IS has a separate battery, and I notice a big difference in battery drain with IS on or off. If it wasn't for Canon's hilarious original battery prices, this isn't a big deal unless you're away from an ac socket for more than a few days.


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ChristopherMarkPerez said:
> 
> 
> > _About heavy and large having perceived value_ - I immediately thought of Cadillac (or whoever it was) putting lead in their doors to give them a customer satisfying "clunk" when they closed. Between friends we call this the "impressing strangers" effect (yes, we're all nerdy engineering types). Bigger and heavier means "better", right?
> ...


Vice versa... so sound engineers employ car manufacturers to make expensive sounds systems look expensive


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## RLPhoto (Nov 20, 2014)

IBIS was only the next natural step. They've had it for awhile now in the axx series cameras. 

Now if Sony could get their sync speeds to 1/500th or faster, I would adopt one asap. I don't think it's ready to replace my DSLRs until they address the issues with the whole mirror less platform.


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## xps (Nov 20, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> meywd said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see how you can compare this with the 5D III, the 6D yes, and its in the same price range, A7 II has more MP and new technology while the 6D will still perform better in low light.
> ...



It is rumored, that this new senor has the equal low light capability like the 6D, an stellar IQ and an much faster and accurate AF. 
If this is true, staying @ 36MP would be "tolerable" ....

I heared from third party engeneers, that the success of Alpha 7 line made them hurrying up designing new lenses. The alpha line will get some new, hig quality lenses in the next years.


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## xps (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ChristopherMarkPerez said:
> 
> 
> > I recently picked up a Sony APS-C A6000 and confirmed that it can produce a (slightly) better image than my full frame 5D MkII. That's what six years of investment in sensor technologies can do for a company.
> ...



+1
If the ml cams cure their "childhood diseases" and develope their lens spectrum, this camery type will be an seroius opponent


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## Maui5150 (Nov 20, 2014)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> Sony entered the market with little to nothing. They had no market share. Commercial pros (sports, wildlife, illustration, corporate, wedding, portrait) and imaging artists could buy "better" gear from Canon or Nikon. Sony acquired Minolta/Konica and with them came certain technologies that Sony didn't have to develop in-house. Meanwhile, Sony put what appears to be a significant investment in sensor technologies. Finally, when Olympus' management team screwed up and had to sell the imaging group, Sony was able to pick up yet more technology.
> 
> At some point Sony would have to surpass the traditional camera manufacturers somehow, someway, right?
> 
> ...



My biggest question remains, given Sony's financial troubles and how in recent years they have sold off Laptops, TV and other electronics, who will be Sony selling there camera business to in 2015


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## jrista (Nov 20, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> IBIS was only the next natural step. They've had it for awhile now in the axx series cameras.
> 
> Now if Sony could get their sync speeds to 1/500th or faster, I would adopt one asap. I don't think it's ready to replace my DSLRs until they address the issues with the whole mirror less platform.




Agreedm 1/500th sync would be fantastic. I might start using flash again for birds.


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Nov 20, 2014)

Canon. They could use the technology boost.

But why would Sony sell a profitable business unit? To finance their failing businesses? It doesn't make sense. 

Trying to frighten people into staying with a brand is a very poor business practice.



Maui5150 said:


> My biggest question remains, given Sony's financial troubles and how in recent years they have sold off Laptops, TV and other electronics, who will be Sony selling there camera business to in 2015


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

jrista said:


> Agreedm 1/500th sync would be fantastic. I might start using flash again for birds.



What's the problem - the lack of stopping power of hss or the drop in power output?



ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> Trying to frighten people into staying with a brand is a very poor business practice.



But a tried and proven one: _"If you can't convince them, confuse them"_ (Truman) :->


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## DominoDude (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ...



Oh, look!? Shiny! *easily duped, but not by Sony* *combs my absent blonde hair*


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## jrista (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Agreedm 1/500th sync would be fantastic. I might start using flash again for birds.
> ...




For a lot of birds (say a chickadee, which has MASSIVE dynamic range, so lighting up the dark feathers is useful), I still seem to bet some motion blur at 1/200th. Even with the flash, you can still see the motion-blurred ghost "beneath" the frozen detail...it annoys me.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 20, 2014)

Incremental sync speed is vastly over rated and not the panacea many seem to think it is. Besides, the 1D from 2002 synced at 1/500 and the 1D MkIV syncs at 1/300 AND, speedlites like the 600-EX-RT, 580 EX II, Nikon SB910 etc have full power flash duration in the 1/250-1/350 range anyway, shorter shutter speeds actually cut your power even when you are not in HSS.


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## mkabi (Nov 20, 2014)

So, I can expect an a7s III (note: not a typo) sometime in 2016?


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Nov 20, 2014)

As a video guy, this makes me really hopeful that they'll give the same treatment/update to the A7s. However, I will hand it to Canon that their cameras are consistently bug free and reliable. The A7s acts weird sometimes, and instead of focusing on firmware updates to improve such issues, Sony seems more driven to replace their cameras altogether (which is probably the best strategy if they're trying to expand their user base).


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

jrista said:


> For a lot of birds (say a chickadee, which has MASSIVE dynamic range, so lighting up the dark feathers is useful), I still seem to bet some motion blur at 1/200th. Even with the flash, you can still see the motion-blurred ghost "beneath" the frozen detail...it annoys me.



You're trying to stay in x-sync range? With the annoying max. x-sync of the 6d of 1/180s I often use hss to fill dark wildlife fur, and it works just fine as with the exposure times I'm using (mostly ~1/500) the lack of hss stopping power doesn't matter. Since I'm not going for a key light overpowering the sun, even a little hss flash helps a lot to raise shadows in post.



privatebydesign said:


> AND, speedlites like the 600-EX-RT, 580 EX II, Nikon SB910 etc have full power flash duration in the 1/250-1/350 range anyway



Let you google that for me :-> ... I read in a smart book I purchased that 1/1 flash of a 580ex2 is 1/800s?


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## jrista (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > For a lot of birds (say a chickadee, which has MASSIVE dynamic range, so lighting up the dark feathers is useful), I still seem to bet some motion blur at 1/200th. Even with the flash, you can still see the motion-blurred ghost "beneath" the frozen detail...it annoys me.
> ...




Well, with birds, your already usually at quite a distance. I never found HSS was adding much, and it was just another source of power drain (more batteries that I had to carry with me.) I have a better beamer, which is a simple fresnel light concentrating system, which can help with the reach...but with HSS, you still don't have a lot of power. 


For some birds, like waders, a 1/200th second shutter with X-synced flash is fine, those birds are larger and don't move a lot. It's the shorebirds and songbirds that are constantly on the move. They can be difficult enough to freeze motion in at high ISOs, and I've noticed, particularly on the ultra-jittery birds like chickadees and least sandpipers, that even with flash you can get visible ghosting. 


Anyway, with the 5D III my high ISO noise problems are greatly mitigated over the 7D. I haven't used flash for well over a year, and the last time I did was on the 7D. I don't think I really need it...and if you can't really get full flash power at 1/500th sync (that seems odd to me...isn't a full-power flash pulse around 1/1000s?), then it probably wouldn't matter anyway.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 20, 2014)

jrista said:


> nyway, with the 5D III my high ISO noise problems are greatly mitigated over the 7D. I haven't used flash for well over a year, and the last time I did was on the 7D. I don't think I really need it...



I like to shoot backlit subject, and in these cases flash is essential for me. I just tried it once again without flash in against the morning sun, but no can do, the subject shadows cave in even using Magic Lantern's dual_iso to get 14.5+ ev dynamic range. Even moderate hss can help a lot here if the subject is not too far away, plus it can give you some automatic subject isolation even if some people hate even a tiny "flash look".


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## tayassu (Nov 20, 2014)

A very nice camera indeed, the AF upgrade was needed as far as I heard.

Too bad they don't have a into-the-corner sharp, fast standard zoom... :


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

I've already tried the A7r + 55/1.8 + adapted lenses experiment for a few months and decided I just didn't care for the whole setup. It had/has some advantages. But the disadvantages and frustrations I had outweighed the positives which has led the rig out of my door.

That being said, the A7II is really intriguing with the updated AF and IBIS. My interest is piqued once again.

My only issue is the same one others have expressed already....how much commitment is there going to be from Sony to all these systems? Also, am I going to have to look at trying to upgrade my outdated camera body every year? The last thing I anticipated was a mark II of any of the A7 line this quickly. I would hate to look at my camera body like my iPhone (although I'm sure this is exactly what Sony is hoping for).


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 20, 2014)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> Also, am I going to have to look at trying to upgrade my outdated camera body every year?



Why would you upgrade if your current model does what you need it to do?

Just because a new model comes out does not make the previous model "out dated". Of course that is what the camera manufacturers want you to believe.


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## infared (Nov 20, 2014)

Yeah...its impressive..yes...Canon is sound asleep...but I still can't get from a sony what I can get image-wise with my 5DIII with my Sigma 50mm f/1.4, Canon 85mm f/1.2 etc......from the standpoint of low DOF ...etc....Sony just doesn't have the wide f-stop lenses with AF....but man...that body just keeps getting sweeter and sweeter. Canon....WAKE UP!


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## Rupp1 (Nov 20, 2014)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> I've already tried the A7r + 55/1.8 + adapted lenses experiment for a few months and decided I just didn't care for the whole setup. It had/has some advantages. But the disadvantages and frustrations I had outweighed the positives which has led the rig out of my door.
> 
> That being said, the A7II is really intriguing with the updated AF and IBIS. My interest is piqued once again.



That's pretty much where I am. Wanted to take gear on a motorcycle trip, so I got an a7r. Although the 55mm is quite good, I find the camera to be slow, and very finicky. The 35mm is OK (but I had to glue the sun shade back together after it separated for no good reason). The telephoto zoom was only the second lens that I have ever returned in my life. IMHO not great at many apertures, and far too many speeds. I'd like to see if Sony can improve it, but I see no reason to dump my Canon gear which is good for almost everything, if heavier. Now I wonder if I should get a 5D III to go with the 1Dx, or wait for a new full frame.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> JohnDizzo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, am I going to have to look at trying to upgrade my outdated camera body every year?
> ...



Because there is a good portion of me that is a gear head/gear snob/whore for technological advancement that I don't do a very good job of ignoring all the time. ;D

That same question could be asked of most of the things that I have upgraded/replaced over the years. Why would I? Because I can, want to, and inherently need to since I am aware that there is something better. lol.

Put it this way. Had I bought the A7 at any point since it was released, I'd be pissed right now as two of the main changes/additions/features are very significant to me. There is nothing that would lead me to believe that if I allowed myself to get sucked in again that we won't be having this conversation on November 20, 2015 again. Except at that point, I would actually have the burden of trying to get rid of a Sony body.


----------



## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

Rupp1 said:


> That's pretty much where I am. Wanted to take gear on a motorcycle trip, so I got an a7r. Although the 55mm is quite good, I find the camera to be slow, and very finicky. The 35mm is OK (but I had to glue the sun shade back together after it separated for no good reason). The telephoto zoom was only the second lens that I have ever returned in my life. IMHO not great at many apertures, and far too many speeds. I'd like to see if Sony can improve it, but I see no reason to dump my Canon gear which is good for almost everything, if heavier. Now I wonder if I should get a 5D III to go with the 1Dx, or wait for a new full frame.



Slow and finicky definitely sums up a lot of my feelings about it. The handling and UI just don't do it for me along with a few other issues. If any of the a7x bodies handled like my X-T1, I would be much more inclined to give it another go. That, and I would need them to add a 35/1.4 to their ecosystem. As it stands, they have nothing that remotely covers my needs except for the 55 (which is still not exactly what I want).


----------



## sdsr (Nov 20, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> JohnDizzo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, am I going to have to look at trying to upgrade my outdated camera body every year?
> ...



Right, though in this particular case the addition of OM-D style IBIS is, as far as I'm concerned, much more than a minor tweak of the sort that tends to distinguish camera lines that get regular updates; I seldom use anything but primes on my mirrorless Sonys and, aside from two Canon primes, none of the ones I own has IS. As others have said, it's helpful to have stabilization as good as Olympus's best for whatever lens you attach (presumably, as with Olympus, if you attach a lens with IS you choose which version of stabilization you want to disable the other; you don't use both together). I'll certainly buy one.


----------



## zlatko (Nov 20, 2014)

Canon is only "asleep" if you must downsize to a mirrorless-sized body, must have in-body IS, or must have a Sony sensor for some reason. Otherwise, they make a highly functional camera system with so many great components and options. I'd love to see a great Canon mirrorless that looks very much like this A72, but I'm not sure there's a compelling reason for Canon to make one. It will be sweet if and when they do.


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## zlatko (Nov 20, 2014)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> Slow and finicky definitely sums up a lot of my feelings about it. The handling and UI just don't do it for me along with a few other issues. If any of the a7x bodies handled like my X-T1, I would be much more inclined to give it another go. That, and I would need them to add a 35/1.4 to their ecosystem. As it stands, they have nothing that remotely covers my needs except for the 55 (which is still not exactly what I want).



Does anyone know whether the newer A7S is slow and finicky too? For some reason, Sony wants a lot more money for the A7S than for the A7 or A7R. Does this mean it's speedier and better in operation?


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 20, 2014)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> Because there is a good portion of me that is a gear head/gear snob/whore for technological advancement that I don't do a very good job of ignoring all the time. ;D



I applaud your honestly. LoL Bottom line is that is the way many of us really feel deep down. We just don't always have the guts to confess. ;D


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> I applaud your honestly. LoL Bottom line is that is the way many of us really feel deep down. We just don't always have the guts to confess. ;D



LOL. I'd say that is one of the elephants in the room when it comes to a forum about anything that involves tech, rumors, and development. 

In this case though, the IBIS and the claimed improvement in AF speed are huge advancements for my needs. So while it simultaneously scratches the gear head itch of mine, it is something I actually would have great use for.

BTW, I say claimed AF speed as I have learned way too many times as of late that all these mirrorless companies love to claim the same thing since they know it is a big knock on the body type. "25% faster," "30% faster," "Fastest AF to date," "Fastest in the market." That all means nothing to me at this point. Show me accuracy and speed in all the lighting conditions people actually shoot in and I'll start sipping the kool-aid. But until then, all I have to say is that all those proclamations have been nothing more than headline/attention grabbers.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

dilbert said:


> If your current whatever does what you need then why do you need the latest?
> 
> As I have stated, I am a gear whore. But in this case, the jump from A7 mark 1 to 2 is a leap. A leap which provides features that I would love and need.
> 
> ...


----------



## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

dilbert said:


> Why would you be pissed?
> Because the manufacturer improved the way a feature worked and released an updated model?
> How can you be angry with them for that?
> 
> ...


----------



## RLPhoto (Nov 20, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Incremental sync speed is vastly over rated and not the panacea many seem to think it is. Besides, the 1D from 2002 synced at 1/500 and the 1D MkIV syncs at 1/300 AND, speedlites like the 600-EX-RT, 580 EX II, Nikon SB910 etc have full power flash duration in the 1/250-1/350 range anyway, shorter shutter speeds actually cut your power even when you are not in HSS.


I disagree. A FF camera with a sync speed @ 1/500th at that price would be a game changer. The X100 is already a hit with many strobists. It means I can stress my speedlites less, better battery life, and less headaches of battery pack swaps.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

@Dilbert - Re the car analogy, fixes to minor issues is one thing. Adding IBIS to any camera body that didn't previously have it is another. The better car analogy would be if the same car from the same company went from 250hp in 2012 to 300hp (a la AF speed increase) with a newly developed 7 speed transmission (IBIS) for the exact same price as the previous year's model. 

IBIS for the record, is an astronomically large addition/development to the A7 body. It is the first IBIS in a full frame body which also makes it ground breaking. So it is by no means merely an incremental bump.


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 20, 2014)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> It is the first IBIS in a full frame body which also makes it ground breaking. So it is by no means merely an incremental bump.



I think the SLT-A99 also had IBIS. But the a7 is the first with this 5 axis IBIS though


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> JohnDizzo15 said:
> 
> 
> > It is the first IBIS in a full frame body which also makes it ground breaking. So it is by no means merely an incremental bump.
> ...



You're absolutely correct. My mistake. I was too quick to parrot an annoucement I read re the A72.


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## jaayres20 (Nov 20, 2014)

Even if a mirrorless camera had the same great AF performance I would not buy one because it is too small. How am I supposed to wear one of those little cameras hanging off of my shoulder with a flash attached and a large lens like my 70-200 or 200mm for extended periods of time and not break the camera? I need a camera that feels good with big gear. Frankly it can't see a mirrorless having the same AF performance at a high frame rate for a long while yet. We are supposed to overlook a lot of inconveniences with this sony just so we can get a little better IQ via more DR at base ISO.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

dilbert said:


> JohnDizzo15 said:
> 
> 
> > @Dilbert - Re the car analogy, fixes to minor issues is one thing. Adding IBIS to any camera body that didn't previously have it is another. The better car analogy would be if the same car from the same company went from 250hp in 2012 to 300hp (a la AF speed increase) with a newly developed 7 speed transmission (IBIS) for the exact same price as the previous year's model.
> ...



While it may not be a problem for people that are new to the Sony market, it is a problem for people that are already a part of the market (i.e. already own a Sony rig). This is mainly due to the fact that they are presenting large jumps in tech for the same price in a short span of time. What this does is depreciate the value of what you had already purchased very recently. It also doesn't serve to create consumer satisfaction as many buyers will be discontent year over year once seeing that they paid the same price not too long ago for something that is nowhere near as good as the new one. Again, we are not talking incremental improvements. Consequently making me uneasy about holding onto any Sony body for too long.

I may be way off on this theory as I do not know the mass market personally. But just speaking from my vantage point, anticipation of devaluation and the presentation of something much better pushed me to get rid of the A7r rig I had quickly as I didn't want to be left with it once the mark 2 came out months later. I had realized I wasn't completely happy with it and just pulled the trigger on getting rid of it (much like a hot potato). Otherwise, I probably would have played with it for a few more months.

To me, it just feels like Sony is hitting the market with a barrage of varying products essentially throwing tons of stuff against the wall to see what sticks. That, at least for me is definitely not confidence building.


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## infared (Nov 20, 2014)

dilbert said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah...its impressive..yes...Canon is sound asleep...but I still can't get from a sony what I can get image-wise with my 5DIII with my Sigma 50mm f/1.4, Canon 85mm f/1.2 etc......from the standpoint of low DOF ...etc....Sony just doesn't have the wide f-stop lenses with AF....but man...that body just keeps getting sweeter and sweeter. Canon....WAKE UP!
> ...



OK...and there is supposed to be an AF improvement....but the lens choices are still lacking..and so many complain about how the camera handles....and then return or sell it.... I just don't think that the whole camera/system has gelled yet.. I am going to stay with my full MFT kit (EM1) and my FF Kit (MarkIII) ...for the time being... Even with the 5-Axis (which is GREAT in my EM1)... I don't think that the Sony experience is "there there" yet. ....but I will continue to read up on it and follow the innovations. I am just not ready to cash in my two systems (they are both fluid photographers tools), to go "all in" on the Sony.... ..but to each his own.


----------



## privatebydesign (Nov 20, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Incremental sync speed is vastly over rated and not the panacea many seem to think it is. Besides, the 1D from 2002 synced at 1/500 and the 1D MkIV syncs at 1/300 AND, speedlites like the 600-EX-RT, 580 EX II, Nikon SB910 etc have full power flash duration in the 1/250-1/350 range anyway, shorter shutter speeds actually cut your power even when you are not in HSS.
> ...



Of course you do. 

However the X100 sync is a work a round that has it's own limitations, anything short of a true shutterless sensor read exposure and very short flash duration is. The real game changer in this area for serious pros has not been the X100 but the Profoto B1 Air kit, sync at any speed and any aperture, true HSS with a decent amount of power. 

And now the Chinese are coming out with their own versions of powerful HSS enabled integrated battery powered studio strobe crossovers at a fraction the price, that is where the strobists that want to push boundaries should be looking, not at leaf shutter hacks.


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## drjlo (Nov 20, 2014)

Personally, I was waiting for A7R II with quiet shutter, faster frame rates, and non-lossy RAW files. A smalish 35 mm f/2. lens like on RX1/R would have helped the cause greatly as well.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> However the X100 sync is a work a round that has it's own limitations, anything short of a true shutterless sensor read exposure and very short flash duration is. The real game changer in this area for serious pros has not been the X100 but the Profoto B1 Air kit, sync at any speed and any aperture, true HSS with a decent amount of power.
> 
> And now the Chinese are coming out with their own versions of powerful HSS enabled integrated battery powered studio strobe crossovers at a fraction the price, that is where the strobists that want to push boundaries should be looking, not at leaf shutter hacks.



Very good point regarding what the best option for strobists may be. There are definitely limitations even with the x100 setup. However, the kit you're referring to starts at just shy of $4,000. I would love to have it. But for mere mortals like myself, a used x100 runs about 400-600 bucks nowadays (x100s for 800-950). 

Haven't read anything about the chinese knockoff versions. But you definitely have my interest piqued. Although I don't know what price range they would fall into as even 25-50% of the cost of the name brand kit would be too expensive more many.

BTW, can you point me in the right direction with some names of the knockoffs? Thanks in advance.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 20, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...


The history of photography would say otherwise. The game changers have and will be when shutters and strobes will both reach a normal sync at insane speeds at normal prices. Right now, still a compromise with HSS. Scoro Broncolor packs and Schneider LS lenses is what serious pros look to, the average pro would like that eventually and a 1/500th sync FF camera is a good first step.

Edit: The X100 makes your argument against faster sync speeds irrelevant. It already works better than HSS w/o the workarounds.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 20, 2014)

Also for the record, regardless of whether we call the x100 a work around, hack, etc, it still works pretty damn well.


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## LOALTD (Nov 21, 2014)

Just going to echo the positivity here about Sony's unhinged aggressiveness in imaging.

I've been a Canon shooter since the original 5D and now I own the Mk III.

The jump in image/video quality from the Mk II to the Mk III was marginal at best. As I tell people "the Mk III is better than the Mk II in just about every single way...except image/video quality"

I've been running the Magic Lantern RAW video module though, and have been blown away by the quality (and file sizes! and processing time!), and I find myself doing a lot more video work.

5-axis IBIS is a GAME CHANGER for the silly videos I make: mainly hiking/mountaineering/ice-rock-climbing. The ability to shoot hand-held in early morning light with a big-aperture prime AND stabilization is HUGE.

At the very least, I can see myself getting a Sony A-series body in the future, to go alongside my Canon setup.

I've been telling people the only thing holding me back was the lack of IBIS but...I didn't expect this feature to arrive so soon! I'm still poor. So I'll now amend that statement to: "I'll get a Sony AX series body when they have IBIS AND 4k video in-camera".


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## LOALTD (Nov 21, 2014)

dilbert said:


> LOALTD said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



You got it! 8)


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## Lee Jay (Nov 21, 2014)

It's an EVF camera. I'm about as interested in that as I am square tires for my car.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 21, 2014)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > However the X100 sync is a work a round that has it's own limitations, anything short of a true shutterless sensor read exposure and very short flash duration is. The real game changer in this area for serious pros has not been the X100 but the Profoto B1 Air kit, sync at any speed and any aperture, true HSS with a decent amount of power.
> ...



The RoveLight RL600 has a fully integrated battery for $599, more than 8 times the power of a 600-EX-RT, and that includes the radio trigger with power control.

http://flashhavoc.com/flashpoint-rovelight-rl-600-review/


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## stochasticmotions (Nov 21, 2014)

As a guy who is keeping his feet in both camps right now I am very happy to see sony advancing technology as quickly as they are. Before this Nikon and Canon had been acting like Intel had been in years past. Only adding tiny improvements to milk as much out of us as possible. AMD caught Intel at that game for a couple of years, and sony is now doing it to Canon. Intel took a bit of a beating but came back even stronger....and we will see what happens in this game. 

For me this competition means that technology isn't sitting in a lab waiting to be brought out in a few years, but is starting to hit different cameras now. I love using my canon gear and continue to do so, but in the last six months I have been taking out the sony A6000 and the A7R more often due to size and weight and I can get the shots I want with either setup. Who knows what I'll be using next year but I will still be having just as much fun.

www.flickr.com\stochasticmotions


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## risc32 (Nov 21, 2014)

IBIS...? so, In Body Image Stabilization... okay, got it. 

this new body has it, and it's a big deal? alright. 
i thought/assumed that most of these sony cams had this all along. You know minolta had it almost a decade ago. i used it. it worked pretty well. you could see how well it was working in the viewfinder, but it worked. since sony took them over a good many years ago, i thought it was in just about everything they offered. I still jumped ship to Canon, and would again.
Frankly i'm still impressed that they managed to get this IBIS to work with a FF sensor, as at the time it was considered impossible. 
sure, keep cranking out the products Sony. good luck ever finding the 3rd party/pro support that way. i'm sure people like magic lantern are interested in spending time unlocking your gear just so you can dumpster the whole thing a couple times a yr.(i wouldn't be surprised if the very core of the imaging pipeline is handed this way)


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## andrewflo (Nov 21, 2014)

If they put out an a7s II with this tech or the a9 is competitive to what Canon/Nikon can offer in their DSLR bodies, the temptation to jump ship may be hard to resist!

Sony just made most lenses on the planet image stabilized with this new camera. Pretty incredible!

And I previously felt like the lack of 2.8 zooms was a huge downfall for Sony. Looks like those are coming soon as well.


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## 9VIII (Nov 21, 2014)

Yawn.

More redundant features that we already have on Canon cameras (IS via the lens). Notice the MP is right back to Canon standard range, does that mean they were right about keeping the MP count low all this time? (no)

I wish someone would just go ahead and make a 64MP full frame body.


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## raptor3x (Nov 21, 2014)

andrewflo said:


> And I previously felt like the lack of 2.8 zooms was a huge downfall for Sony. Looks like those are coming soon as well.



Has this actually been stated anywhere?


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## kei00051 (Nov 21, 2014)

9VIII said:


> Yawn.
> 
> More redundant features that we already have on Canon cameras (IS via the lens). Notice the MP is right back to Canon standard range, does that mean they were right about keeping the MP count low all this time? (no)
> 
> I wish someone would just go ahead and make a 64MP full frame body.



lol Just too painful to read these kind of comments


----------



## Lawliet (Nov 21, 2014)

raptor3x said:


> andrewflo said:
> 
> 
> > And I previously felt like the lack of 2.8 zooms was a huge downfall for Sony. Looks like those are coming soon as well.
> ...


They showed a 16-35/2.8II and 24-70/2.8II. Cavet emptor: They're A mount, whether they've got a motor&firmware that makes them play nicely with the A7II(A9?)'s native AF system remains to be seen.


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## Lawliet (Nov 21, 2014)

Klaus_Kleber said:


> ignoring mirrroless, sticking to old sensor technology.
> only thing canon is improving on their sensors are video features (dual pixel) that i have no use for. while avoiding to do the next step and offer 4K.


And even that's quite smoke and mirrors - dual pixel sounds cool, but in which way is it better then everbody elses on sensor PDAF? Esp. considering that the old sensor tech prevents full readouts at a sufficient rate to make use of it's theoretical potential.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 21, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> JohnDizzo15 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Thanks for the info. Was digging around and saw that they had the flashpoint mount version for 379 on sale right now but read that the bowen mount version was preferable for it's universal compatibility. Almost pulled the trigger....lol.


----------



## dgatwood (Nov 21, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Incremental sync speed is vastly over rated and not the panacea many seem to think it is. Besides, the 1D from 2002 synced at 1/500 and the 1D MkIV syncs at 1/300 AND, speedlites like the 600-EX-RT, 580 EX II, Nikon SB910 etc have full power flash duration in the 1/250-1/350 range anyway, shorter shutter speeds actually cut your power even when you are not in HSS.
> ...



What we need is to move to electronic shutters with simultaneous parallel readout. With that, not only would you have almost infinitely fast shutter and sync speeds, but also the ability to store a photo as a stream of samples along with shake data and perform much more precise IS in post, for faster response beyond the capabilities of physical IS.


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## Lawliet (Nov 21, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Let you google that for me :-> ... I read in a smart book I purchased that 1/1 flash of a 580ex2 is 1/800s?


That would be t0.5; t0.1 for a full discharge is much longer.
On the upside thats only for a full discharge - at half power you can already use a quarter of the shutter speed and effectively have gained one stop. And get twice the battery life, half the recycle time, less heat for free.


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## expatinasia (Nov 22, 2014)

What I personally find interesting about all this is what Sony has held back and are about to put into the new A9 (is that their top of the range, their 1D? I find their naming system to be very confusing at times).

Even the guy at SAR seems more excited by what the A9 may well be, than this impressive announcement.

But hats off to Sony, I hope they keep questioning and innovating.


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 22, 2014)

stochasticmotions said:


> For me this competition means that technology isn't sitting in a lab waiting to be brought out in a few years, but is starting to hit different cameras now. I love using my canon gear and continue to do so, but in the last six months I have been taking out the sony A6000 and the A7R more often due to size and weight and I can get the shots I want with either setup. Who knows what I'll be using next year but I will still be having just as much fun.
> 
> www.flickr.com\stochasticmotions



I'm about to go the same route, I'm picking up a Pentax K-5 iis next week, my first film camera was a Ricoh. So, I'm excited to go back plus the weight of the camera had a lot to do with my decision to switch brands.After doing an event last week, I finally realized how much I dislike how heavy my 50D is and another reason why I didn't hop on a 7D Mark II (it's very heavy).
But I have been checking out the Sony lineup and will probably be picking up a Sony next year.


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 22, 2014)

Sportsgal501 said:


> I'm about to go the same route, I'm picking up a Pentax K-5 iis next week, my first film camera was a Ricoh. S



A friend of mine who is my photography mentor has a K-5 and he loves it. The K-5II is even better. He almost talked me into getting a K-3 and I am not sure I made the right decision in not getting it.


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## symmar22 (Nov 22, 2014)

Same for me here I've been waiting too long to replace my 5D2s with something better, sensor speaking. I couldn't care less about an (again) slightly improved AF, or 50FPS, or 102400 ISO. In my domain (architecture and interiors) 99.5% or my pics are made on a tripod, manual focused between 100 and 400 (max) ISO. It's a long time I have the impression Canon won't deliver the high res studio / landscape / architecture camera many of us are waiting for. They do with the tech they have, that is oriented only at action shooters.

I was hesitating with the A7r, since it's a 1st Gen camera, it's always wise to wait a bit to see where it goes, but the upcoming A9, could be this time the new working tool I need. I'd keep some of my Canon glass (mainly the TS-Es since they are irreplaceable) and slowly swap the Canon normal glass for Sony. That's my roadmap.

Canon wants to make profits without risk, good for them, but their attitude reminds me of Kodak's, sited on their money making film monopole, and incapable of foreseeing the future. We all know how it ended. Capitalism, like nature, hates emptiness, if someone leaves a gap, someone else will take it, and someday, one wakes up with a bad hangover.


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## RobertG. (Nov 22, 2014)

Klaus_Kleber said:


> i am not happy what canon is doing the last 2 years.
> ...
> 
> but for my landscape/architectural work i would love to see canon going the sony way.
> ...



That's so very true! Same for me. I still shoot with the 5D II because there is no improvement in the sensor technology in the following cameras. The lack of IS in the new EF 24-70 II had also been a disapointment and so the Tamron 24-70 SP became my most used lens. Maybe soon it will be a Sony camera with a Sony lens... 
I keep shooting with Canon because of the TS-E lenses. The mediocre performance of Metabones adapter with shifted TS-E lenses is the only thing that stops me from using a Sony camera body.


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## TLN (Nov 22, 2014)

I'm guys in same boat as you.
Got nice canon setup, but not really want to invest in Canon anymore, until they release something competitive.
A7 looks promising for amateur photographer, and a7 II even better. 
I ride a snowboard occasionally, and I beleivem getting an older 7d might be a good idea for that days. And A7 for all the rest. May be get rid of 7D with sony's future models.


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## robbinzo (Nov 22, 2014)

How about the Mikaton 50mm f/0.95 lens to go with your Sony A7II?

http://www.zyopticslens.com/mitakon50mm095.html


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## Aglet (Nov 24, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Sportsgal501 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm about to go the same route, I'm picking up a Pentax K-5 iis next week, my first film camera was a Ricoh. S
> ...



I haven't bought the K3 (yet), but it looks to be a better performer for AWB and metering than previous Pentax bodies.
I use K52s, K30, K10 and I find the metering is often quite different from every other mfr body I use, and often in a way I find inconsistent and less predictable to compensate. So I waste a lot more time chimping my histograms with Pentax than with other brands. Even then, and even when using full manual, I find I often need to tweak a bit in post.
When nailed, the IQ is excellent, so I've generally only used them for non-action work where I can re-shoot as needed.
Pentax lenses are another odd thing compared to others; their test results are usually not very impressive but the resulting images are generally pleasing. 
Pentax users are often quite avid about their equipment and I can often see why from the results I've obtained with my gear. (Tho I'm wondering about the results I'd get using a Sony A72 with K-mount adapter instead)


----------



## Sportsgal501 (Nov 24, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Sportsgal501 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm about to go the same route, I'm picking up a Pentax K-5 iis next week, my first film camera was a Ricoh. S
> ...



When I was out shooting an event two weeks ago it finally dawned on me I needed to switch.

Weight is the main reason for switching, although I loved the Canon 7D mark ii at PhotoPlus Expo NYC.
Canon cameras seem to be getting heavier, the battery life isn't as good as my 50D which requires you to get a grip or additional batteries to lug around.

I just finished retrieving my Ricoh/Pentax manual lens (3) and Pentax 2x teleconvertor from 1979-1998, putting all the Canon lens and camera in that bag. These Ricoh/Pentax lens are 20+ years old but much lighter than the Canon ones and they are all steel, no plastic whatsoever. I'm actually excited on picking up the new body on Black Friday and shooting all weekend. We already picked up a 50-200mm WR Pentax lens last week at B&H since I was undecided on the K-3 or K-5iis.

Next year I'm looking at adding a Sony Full Frame to the mix.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2014)

when this comes out i really want to try it out with my 135 f2L 
If the AF doesn't take much of a hit via the adapter it might be a wicked combo
effectively giving IS to one of canons best lenses.


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## Rejdmast (Nov 25, 2014)

RobertG. said:


> Klaus_Kleber said:
> 
> 
> > i am not happy what canon is doing the last 2 years.
> ...




What do you mean by "mediocre performance of Metabones adapter"? Are you referring to IQ, ease of use, etc.?


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## sdsr (Nov 25, 2014)

Aglet said:


> Pentax users are often quite avid about their equipment and I can often see why from the results I've obtained with my gear. (Tho I'm wondering about the results I'd get using a Sony A72 with K-mount adapter instead)



Rather nice, I expect - I haven't a clue how Pentax AF lenses (if that's what you have) work via adapters (can you change apertures?), but I love the images I get from my elderly Pentax/Super-Tak lenses on my A7r; it doesn't hurt that they're superbly made, a pleasure to look at and handle and inexpensive to boot. With IBIS, so much the better.


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## zlatko (Nov 25, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> when this comes out i really want to try it out with my 135 f2L
> If the AF doesn't take much of a hit via the adapter it might be a wicked combo
> effectively giving IS to one of canons best lenses.



Not sure where I saw it, but a native FE 135/2 is apparently on Sony's lens roadmap, but a release date hasn't been announced. That will be an exciting lens to use on the A7 series because it won't need an adapter and will likely have fast autofocus. And with the A7II, it will be image stabilized. In the meantime, the Canon 135/2 may be a good option too, but I suspect the AF will be slow.


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## Lawliet (Nov 25, 2014)

zlatko said:


> That will be an exciting lens to use on the A7 series because it won't need an adapter and will likely have fast autofocus.



With the 135 I'd hope for an STF-version. That might not make it an AF-king, likely no luck with phase detection, but the rendering of OoF areas is rather unique.


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## weixing (Nov 25, 2014)

Lawliet said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > That will be an exciting lens to use on the A7 series because it won't need an adapter and will likely have fast autofocus.
> ...


Hi,
I thought Sony already had an 135mm STF lens which they inherit from Minolta, but in alpha mount and manual focus only.

Have a nice day.


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## Lawliet (Nov 25, 2014)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> I thought Sony already had an 135mm STF lens which they inherit from Minolta, but in alpha mount and manual focus only.



They have - but with contrast AF the strict no AF limit is no more, as a native E-mount lens that idea would be in the realm of the possible. (And Sigma is less likely to release a counterpart, while something in the 135/2 or /1.8 range was talked about in the past. It would be right in line with their other primes at least. )


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## canonvoir (Nov 26, 2014)

No doubt my next camera will be a sony. Most likely the a9 because the a7 series is a bit slow on the fps while tracking. 

I want a small, lightweight camera to accompany my 1DX with me to sporting events. My 5Diii is bulky and heavy and is hard to carry easily all day while lugging the 1DX and 300 combo. Truth be told I could live with the a7s or a7ii as a backup camera but want to see the a9 before throwing down the money.


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## AvTvM (Nov 26, 2014)

Well I guess almost all of us - with very few exceptions - want to see that Sony A9 as soon as possible. 

If Sony A9 eliminates the current major weaknesses of A7/R: 
1. AF speed/tracking capability, 
2. shutter vibration [A7R]
3. battery charge [all A7 incl. II] 
4. "cooked"/11-bit RAWs 
* and comes with new, even better IQ sensor [30+ MP would be sufficient for my taste] 
* and price is not much higher than € 2500 [=around 5D III] 
then I'll get it. Along with 24-70/4, 16-35/4, 55/1.8 lenses. 8)

If not, I hope it will at least be "good enough" to further increase market pressure on Canon to bring higher end mirrorless models to market. Minimum a "worthwhile" EOS-M3 with 7D II sensor, good AF and EVF. And ideally also a fully competitive FF-sensored product line with new mount, short flange distance native lenses ["EF X"].


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## canonvoir (Nov 26, 2014)

I would prefer the a7s variant with ~18 MP instead of the current 12 MP. I shoot primarily in low light situations.

I also want a high MP camera but that is not on the top of my priority list.


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## tron (Nov 26, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> No doubt my next camera will be a sony. Most likely the a9 because the a7 series is a bit slow on the fps while tracking.
> 
> I want a small, lightweight camera to accompany my 1DX with me to sporting events. My 5Diii is bulky and heavy and is hard to carry easily all day while lugging the 1DX and 300 combo. Truth be told I could live with the a7s or a7ii as a backup camera but want to see the a9 before throwing down the money.


Interesting! So I guess you will decide to either:

1. depend on the the metabones adapter 
Most likely, in which case I would like to see how the 300mm 2.8 works with the sony adaptor.
However, in that case it is the weight of 5D3 against the sum of weights of both sony A7 and adaptor : :

2. or get a whole new lens system.

NOT likely, expensive and bulkier (the sum of canon and sony equipment). 
In that case the weight of 5D3 is irrelevant.


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## canonvoir (Nov 26, 2014)

tron said:


> canonvoir said:
> 
> 
> > No doubt my next camera will be a sony. Most likely the a9 because the a7 series is a bit slow on the fps while tracking.
> ...



I would purchase a native FE 35mm prime (or something close) and that would be my secondary camera/lens. I don't want to use a metabones adapter. I would get native lenses. My current need for a second camera is for pre-game, post-game type shots. I use a 300 2.8 on the 1DX during the game. In fact, this combo is together 99% of the time during football season.


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## tron (Nov 26, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > canonvoir said:
> ...


This is indeed a lighter combination. However, it is not a backup for 1Dx. But whether backup is necessary or not is another matter. I do understand your need for less bulk and weight though...


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## canonvoir (Nov 26, 2014)

tron said:


> canonvoir said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



I don't recall stating I wanted a backup camera for the 1DX. I just a lighter, full frame second body. I have the M and two lenses but that camera just plain stinks at night.


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## tron (Nov 27, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > canonvoir said:
> ...


I read: Truth be told I could live with the a7s or a7ii as a backup camera...


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## canonvoir (Nov 27, 2014)

Apologies! I see the confusion now.


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## celinealler (Nov 28, 2014)

yeah， now I also can see it :

----------------------------------------
coque sony xperia z4 étui xperia z4


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## tron (Nov 28, 2014)

A7s is a little tempting but in my case I would use the adapter and focus manually with some of my best ultrawide lenses.

The reason is: landscape astrophotography.

For that, most of my pictures are taken with iso 10000 (with a 14mm f/2.8 lens).

However, I have invested in 2 5D3s as a general purpose backup solution that some times saves me from exchanging lenses too.

Add to that the fact that I am an amateur that mostly shoots during summer and you can see why I will not get it.

(Plus it has just occured to me that the sum of costs of one of my 5D3s, the a7s and the metabones adaptor could approximate the cost of getting a new 1Dx...)


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## canonvoir (Nov 28, 2014)

celinealler said:


> yeah， now I also can see it :



Great first post. : :-\


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## sanj (Nov 29, 2014)

http://www.eoshd.com/2014/11/sony-a7-ii-review-5-axis-stabilisation-video-mode/

Spoiler: Reviewer not so excited...


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## raptor3x (Dec 2, 2014)

sanj said:


> http://www.eoshd.com/2014/11/sony-a7-ii-review-5-axis-stabilisation-video-mode/
> 
> Spoiler: Reviewer not so excited...



That's disappointing.


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## dude (Dec 3, 2014)

raptor3x said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.eoshd.com/2014/11/sony-a7-ii-review-5-axis-stabilisation-video-mode/
> ...



Plenty of reviewers will be excited. I think this is progress and that is great. Canon's biggest problem is creating a mirrorless segment without killing their DSLR line.


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 3, 2014)

raptor3x said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.eoshd.com/2014/11/sony-a7-ii-review-5-axis-stabilisation-video-mode/
> ...



A single reviewer's opinion should not matter that much.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

dude said:


> Plenty of reviewers will be excited. I think this is progress and that is great. Canon's biggest problem is creating a mirrorless segment without killing their DSLR line.



They probably discovered a solution for this problem: Don't create a mirrorless segment until the very last possible moment, but keep milking the dslr evolutionary line.


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## Lee Jay (Dec 3, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> dude said:
> 
> 
> > Plenty of reviewers will be excited. I think this is progress and that is great. Canon's biggest problem is creating a mirrorless segment without killing their DSLR line.
> ...



If mirrorless were better, they could create that and sell those instead of their SLRs. The problem is, mirrorless isn't better and that's why SLRs out-sell them at least 5:1.


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> If mirrorless were better, they could create that and sell those instead of their SLRs. The problem is, mirrorless isn't better and that's why SLRs out-sell them at least 5:1.



Yeah. Today. I wonder what the ratio will be in a few years though. 

I wonder what photographers thought when the first SLRs were coming out


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## Lee Jay (Dec 3, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > If mirrorless were better, they could create that and sell those instead of their SLRs. The problem is, mirrorless isn't better and that's why SLRs out-sell them at least 5:1.
> ...



Mirrorless large sensor cameras have been available for a long time. They suck, for a lot of things. They do very little if anything better.

I can make a 7D Mark II into a mirrorless camera with a Hoodman, and it has phase-detection focusing.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > dude said:
> ...



What's "better" (on the doom9 video forum, you'd be banned just for using this word )?

I also don't see the connection between sales and "better" (whatever that is). Are you seriously suggesting the market re-orients towards a new innovation in zero time? Ever heard of the slow diffusion of innovations

The will certainly be a old-school dslr segments left for people who don't want an evf, don't want to change the look and feel or want a fast phase af. 

But for the rest, Canon won't try unless they know they can compete - shelling out an m3,m4,m5 again that are reviewed as "nice, but lacking" damages their reputation and marketing potential if they ever get serious with their mirrorless attempts. There is a reason why the m2 didn't make it outside Asia because it would make more people believe this:



Lee Jay said:


> Mirrorless large sensor cameras have been available for a long time. They suck, for a lot of things. They do very little if anything better.


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Dec 3, 2014)

... in fact... if you look back to the beginning of 35mm film photography a person would quickly realize that mirrorless is where it ALL started. 

Leica.

We're just coming back around to the beginning. That's all. Well, some companies are. Others seem to believe they have markets and products to protect.



AcutancePhotography said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > If mirrorless were better, they could create that and sell those instead of their SLRs. The problem is, mirrorless isn't better and that's why SLRs out-sell them at least 5:1.
> ...


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## Lee Jay (Dec 3, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



MILCs have been available for quite a while. In technology terms, several lifetimes.


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## rocksubculture (Dec 3, 2014)

This is a bit off topic... 

I have all Canon gear (except the 35 and 50 Art from Sigma, for Canon) and recently picked up one of the old Canon f/0.95 50mm "dream lenses", so needed a mirrorless camera to use it.

After a lot of deliberation, I went with the A7s (the low light ability appealed to me more that the higher res A7 bodies and the new A7IIs IS).

First of all, the body feels so cheap compared to the Canon DSLRs... like a plastic toy. Even the extra battery grip adds no weight or heft (which I guess is the point - but I like weight and durability).

Anyway, I played around with it a little bit, and I have to say that I absolutely LOVE the focus peaking with manual focus. If Canon bodies had this, I would use it a lot (even over auto focus). I do action photography (concerts), and I think it is totally doable with manual focus with the right lens and focus peaking. Getting the red light on someone's eye is just incredible - you really know if you have it locked in. Also, the EVF is impressive. And the completely silent shutter. I definitely see some uses with this body that I cannot do with my Canon gear, so it opens up some new photo possibilities...

Having said all that, Sony seems to be releasing new bodies faster than lenses. I like that when I buy a 5D or 7D series body, it is good for many years. 

Like I said, sorry off topic, but in the event someone was interested in a Canon owner's first take on the A7 series...

Jason


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## Marsu42 (Dec 3, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> MILCs have been available for quite a while. In technology terms, several lifetimes.



And in terms of coming and going of ice ages, not that long. The diffusion only starts once a critical mass of early adopters have been found, some geek innovators don't matter that much if they aren't able to kickstart the process. The curve is just a rough theory, and stages can be very different in real life.









rocksubculture said:


> but I like weight and durability



... both are easily confused, but light isn't necessarily less durable. A full metal body is a marketing thing just like cars are made to feel and sound in a certain way.



rocksubculture said:


> Anyway, I played around with it a little bit, and I have to say that I absolutely LOVE the focus peaking with manual focus. If Canon bodies had this, I would use it a lot (even over auto focus).



Canon bodies have it, it's called Magic Lantern. But you're correct, in-viewfinder focus peaking is a game-changer for fast lenses and obsoletes a lot of fuss to phase-af with thin dof.

But as you just discovered, you have to use it to get an idea of the value, so unless Canon adds this to their own lineup die-hard Canon enthusiasts will never know: If Canon doesn't have it, it cannot be any good.


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## raptor3x (Dec 3, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> But you're correct, in-viewfinder focus peaking is a game-changer for fast lenses and obsoletes a lot of fuss to phase-af with thin dof.
> 
> But as you just discovered, you have to use it to get an idea of the value, so unless Canon adds this to their own lineup die-hard Canon enthusiasts will never know: If Canon doesn't have it, it cannot be any good.



Focus peaking is nice in theory, but my experience with the Sony implementation is that it's accuracy is questionable for fast lenses, especially in low light/high ISO situations.


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