# Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 6, 2015)

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<p><a href="http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-18713" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/fotosideninterview.jpg" alt="fotosideninterview" width="590" height="332" /></a></p>
<p>Mike Burnhill is with CPS for Canon Europe and did an interview with Fotosidan about the EOS 5Ds, EOS 5Ds R and how the product came to be, and what the design philosophies were for the camera.</p>
<p>Mike touches on why a large megapixel sensor isn’t ideal for 4K, or even 6K video, which sounds like we’ll see that addressed in an upcoming full frame EOS camera. It’s also interesting to note that Canon L lens design since 2010’s Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II has had high resolution image sensors in mind, and that every L lens since has been designed for use with these cameras.</p>
<p>You’ll get a pretty simple answer about whether or not shooting with the “R” version of the camera is for you. As well as why Canon decided to stick with Compact Flash over new technology such as CFast 2.0.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/video-interview-canon-eos-5ds-and.htm" target="_blank">See the entire interview at Fotosidan</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## iso79 (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

I'm glad they're focusing more on photography again and less on video for the 5Ds/5DSr.


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

So the revamp of Canon L lenses started in 2010 it states here. It actually started in September 2009 when they annouced the EF100mm f2.8L Macro Ive heard from within the optical industry that lens went on sale in October 2009.


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## Click (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



iso79 said:


> I'm glad they're focusing more on photography again and less on video for the 5Ds/5DSr.




I agree with you.


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## mackguyver (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



Click said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad they're focusing more on photography again and less on video for the 5Ds/5DSr.
> ...


That makes 3 of us. Interesting interview and I'm fine with the DR in the current bodies, so I think the 5DsR is on my shopping list as a 5DIII replacement. I love that my L-plates and everything will still work.


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## SwnSng (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

There are a couple things I can infer from this video.

1. They may still be working on a Medium format Camera
2. the 5D Markiv will have better DR since he points to the high resolution and smaller photosites on the 5DS/R as the reason for not improving on DR.


The good news and the only thing making me still consider this Camera is that he said that shadow noise has been improved over the 5DMkIII. Leaning towards waiting to hear about the MKIV before buying anything new.


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## dstppy (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> UNless people boycott any further Canon purchases you'll be stuck with the same old sensor quality for probably another 10-15 years at least. Nothing but a total sales failure for this will make any difference.



Leading by example goes a long way . . . one could start small, say boycotting further Canon-related forums . . 

:


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## jaayres20 (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The thing is you can get an adapted Sony that will offer a lot more dynamic range and only modestly less resolution for a ton less money.
> 
> Personally it's clear nothing anyone says matters and they are, as I feared back in 2007, just lost the plot totally, all this talk about kings of the hill who saw no need to do anything.
> 
> ...



The thing is that your point of view is in the minority. I know there are a lot of discussions about DR here and other forums, but these forums do not represent a large number of professional photographers. The DR issue has been hyped so much that most of us have been lead to believe that Canon is lacking considerably, which it really isn't. It doesn't make or break this camera for most of the people who will want it. I have the 6D, 5D3 and 1DX. So far the 6D has the best DR in terms of really really underexposing an image and then brining back details in the shadows. I would bet that this new camera is at least as good DR as the 6D, which is just fine for me, and probably a lot of other photographers. The supposed lack of DR (in reality) is a very minor inconvenience that doesn't really apply to most photography scenarios. You can point to DXO mark and DR tests where people have pushed their files 5 stops, but it doesn't represent most real life uses for this camera. If I were to take a Sony camera to a wedding reception I would probably have to give the clients their money back. With all of the hype of the DR, what about poor AF or a lackluster EVF? The 5DS will make a great companion for my 1DX and I will take lots of properly exposed images at 50mp during the portrait sessions of the wedding day and be extremely pleased. Then I will utilize it's good ISO performance at 3200 and maybe even 6400 along wit the 1.6 crop mode for the wedding ceremony and turn my 200mm lens into a 320mm lens and still have a 19mp image. Then at the wedding reception I will put it away and pull out the 1DX for fast moving action in low light.


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## Eldar (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The thing is you can get an adapted Sony that will offer a lot more dynamic range and only modestly less resolution for a ton less money.
> 
> Personally it's clear nothing anyone says matters and they are, as I feared back in 2007, just lost the plot totally, all this talk about kings of the hill who saw no need to do anything.
> 
> ...


I´m in! I had planned to push the order button for both the 5Ds and the 11-24 today, but will do neither. 

Instead I am trying to figure out what a Pentax 645z package should consist of. Compared to Hasselblad and Phase One it´s cheap, but still a substantial chunk of money. Next I´ll be looking through my gear, trying to figure out what to sell. 

My feeling right now is to limit Canon to action, birds and wildlife and keep my 1DX and current collection of long whites. I may be interested in the next 1DX, but that will be pretty much it.

What a disappointing day ...


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## dtaylor (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Does he have any explanation why since the 5Ds is not video oriented and didn't need any of Canon's custom video bits and didn't even get DPAF even, why they stuck with a Canon sensor for this? It is not a speed demon and not a video demon so how exactly is this following the claim of Maesada that they will use the best sensor for each camera regardless of who makes it???



Make a DSLR focused on video, someone will complain they want an ultimate stills camera. Make a DSLR focused on stills, someone will complain it's not the ultimate video camera :

This is Canon's studio, landscape, and other assorted high resolution needs camera. Just like the 7D mark II is their crop 'mini-1DX' sports and wildlife camera. I imagine their video-oriented 4k DSLRs are still coming. (Probably the 5D4 since high quality video has overlap with high ISO and weddings.)



> What did using a Canon sensor gain them here?? The only things I can see is a larger profit margin per copy by a little bit and the, fleeting, ability to crow that they released a 50MP camera first (never mind the quality of it is worse than Exmor



Well, no, the resolution is better then Exmor's current best. And there were rumors that Canon put work into the CFA for more accurate colors, something they are already better at then Exmor.

But I see this is about to turn into a "DR is everything" type post.



> ...and that I'd bet many a landscape shooter would rather more stops of DR than just 14 extra MP over a 36MP Exmor sensor or some deal they could make with Aptina or whoever).



No, but many underexposed bedroom corner shooters would for sure. I think Canon has completely lost that market ;D


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## HULK (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

HULK make analogy: Recovering shadows with Canon is like stirring up a lot of dirt. Canon fanboys = dirtpushers. Such fegits, lel.


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## dtaylor (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The thing is you can get an adapted Sony that will offer a lot more dynamic range and only modestly less resolution for a ton less money.



DR difference = 21%

Resolution difference = 38%

Hmmm....



> Personally it's clear nothing anyone says matters and they are, as I feared back in 2007, just lost the plot totally, all this talk about kings of the hill who saw no need to do anything.



You really think DR debates and DRoning are the norm? I have two friends who shoot pro FF Nikon equipment. The DR difference between Canon and Nikon has never come up between us. In fact, I showed one some of my processing tricks because he commented about how impressed he was with the range I pulled in a few landscape shots from single frames using *the original crop 7D.* Put another way: I was getting more range initially then he was from his FF Nikon.

The difference is simply not apparent in daily use unless you completely blow the exposure. Your skill level matters more. Sorry, but that's reality.



> UNless people boycott any further Canon purchases you'll be stuck with the same old sensor quality for probably another 10-15 years at least.



APS-C with usable ISO 16,000
FF 50 MP sensor
"same old sensor quality"
:



> Nothing but a total sales failure for this will make any difference.



If you think these new 5D's are going to be sales failures then you are dreaming.


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## Omni Images (Feb 6, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



Eldar said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is you can get an adapted Sony that will offer a lot more dynamic range and only modestly less resolution for a ton less money.
> ...



Hi Eldar, regarding looking into the 645Z, I went through that over the past 3 or 4 months, and made a purchase a month ago, of a second hand Phase One 645DF+ with the P45+ back. It was an agonizing decision to try and make between the two, as the prices were about the same for a second hand Phase One with a huge CCD sensor at 39MP or a new 645Z with a smaller 50MP CMOS sensor.
For me the Phase One "system" had a lot more going for it than the fixed Pentax.
The Pentax was just a crappy box that took average/good lenses ... but had that great sensor ... and that's all I felt it had going for it. Looking through the viewfinder was like looking down a straw ... it just felt cheap I guess.
The Phase One P45+ had a larger sensor size .... it was a great "basic" camera in how it functions, I didn't need nor want any bells and whistles, the low iso 50 to 800 is fine with me for what I am doing with it.
They take top quality Schneider, Phase One and Mamiya lenses. The viewfinder is HUGE and bright.
The back can fit many other bodies .. and especially for me a Technical body such an Alpa or Cambo ... which in turn take Rodenstock lenes ... and this "SYSTEM" will be my landscape kit as it will smaller and lighter than taking the body with me, certainly smaller than the Pentax BOX. But I will always take my Linhof 617S along with me also.
Aquatech make a water housing for it, which is on order ....
I then have the ability to up grade the backs in future. I'd go an IQ160 next I think...

I see a use for these new 5Ds bodies and still may get one for use in moving subjects, as I still only use single shot for birding/wildlife on my 1D4 anyway .. and of course Canon Glass ... unmatched really .. and that new 11-24F4 all I can say is WOW

So I'd have a look at second hand Phase One prices if you are thinking about medium format, my back only had 1800 on the clock. I am really happy with what it's been producing even though it's only 39MP CCD and they say about 12DR, the sensor size is pretty much TRUE medium format size ... and all this hype about these 5Ds being a rival to MF .. no way, a 35mm FF sensor is a puny 8.6cm2 the P45+ sensor is 18.6cm2 and the newer 50MP cmos is only 14.52cm2 with the IQ160/260 topping out at 21.77cm2


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## Eldar (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



Omni Images said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...


Thanks Omni, I´ll give thls some serious thought!


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## canonvoir (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

Who has a list of L glass released since 2010?


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## Lawliet (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



Eldar said:


> Instead I am trying to figure out what a Pentax 645z package should consist of. Compared to Hasselblad and Phase One it´s cheap, but still a substantial chunk of money. Next I´ll be looking through my gear, trying to figure out what to sell.



Something to consider: P1 and HB buy old backs back when you upgrad to a current one. 
That has two implications: Keeping up to date is not as expensive as it seems at the first glance. And those 2nd hand backs end up somewhere. Mostly as refurbs in the hands of new entrants, an effort to lower the inital investment bump.

Also a set of 40-80LS and 75-150LS (plus the 120Macro or TS) is still cheaper then a single lens of the Zeiss cz trinity


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## Omni Images (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

Oh ... and Phase One dealer service is second to NONE !
Pentax seemed non existent from the comments I have read .. you're on your own. 2 to 3 months away in Japan for any service or repairs.


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## Ivar (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

I think you are utterly wrong. In the biggest landscape forum (LL), the general consensus is quite the opposite. 

Any thinking photographer would like to have more DR, even those who own the current best out there.

I could easily use a phone camera when travelling provided the dslr didn't offer any compelling advantages.
It is like stone age messing with filters and constantly optimizing instead of just having a specialist tool with professional flexibility.



jaayres20 said:


> The thing is that your point of view is in the minority. I know there are a lot of discussions about DR here and other forums, but these forums do not represent a large number of professional photographers. The DR issue has been hyped so much that most of us have been lead to believe that Canon is lacking considerably, which it really isn't.


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## dolina (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*

I am surprised that medium format cameras do not use CFast.


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## SPL (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



iso79 said:


> I'm glad they're focusing more on photography again and less on video for the 5Ds/5DSr.


+1!


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## Mr1Dx (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



canonvoir said:


> Who has a list of L glass released since 2010?



http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/lens/


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## roguewave (Feb 7, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



dtaylor said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is you can get an adapted Sony that will offer a lot more dynamic range and only modestly less resolution for a ton less money.
> ...



Well, you can also look at it this way:
21% is the difference in the *number of stops*. However, because DR is an exponential function, where each stop doubles the dynamic range, a difference of 2 stops essentially means 400% wider DR .

A resolution increase from 36 to 50 mp, on the other hand, although it gives you 38% more pixels total, is only ~17% (=sqrt(1.38) ) increase in each dimension, not a whole lot.


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## dtaylor (Feb 8, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



roguewave said:


> Well, you can also look at it this way:
> 21% is the difference in the *number of stops*. However, because DR is an exponential function, where each stop doubles the dynamic range, a difference of 2 stops essentially means 400% wider DR .



That may be true in terms of the light energy striking the sensor, but it's not how the human eye interprets it. Most people would be hard pressed to even detect a 1 stop DR difference on the shadow side with two prints side by side. (Seriously.)


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## dolina (Feb 8, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



Mr1Dx said:


> canonvoir said:
> 
> 
> > Who has a list of L glass released since 2010?
> ...



Go to dpreview and select Canon EF & Canon. It will display a list of lenses from newest to oldest.


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## dtaylor (Feb 8, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> dtaylor said:
> 
> 
> > roguewave said:
> ...



They are being silly.

For the record even though I threw those percentages at you, I imagine the resolution difference between the A7r and new 50 MP 5D bodies will be close to inconsequential.


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## surapon (Feb 8, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



mackguyver said:


> Click said:
> 
> 
> > iso79 said:
> ...




+100 for me too , Dear Mr. Click
Canon 5DsR will be on my bag ASAP, when they on US. market on this June 2015 = $ 3899 + Canon Battery Grip BG-E 11 = $ 250 US Dollars.+ Kirk L. Plate.
Plus My New Toy EOS-M MK III too.
Have a great Sunday, Sir.
Surapon


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## dstppy (Feb 10, 2015)

*Re: Interview About the EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R with Mike Burnhill*



canonvoir said:


> Who has a list of L glass released since 2010?


Wikipedia:
8–15 mm f/4 2010
70–200 mm IS II f/2.8 2010
70–300 mm IS f/4-5.6 2010
300 mm IS II f/2.8 2010
400 mm IS II f/2.8 2011
500 mm IS II f/4 2011
600 mm IS II f/4 2011
24–70 mm II f/2.8 2012
24–70 mm IS f/4.0 2012
200–400 mm IS f/4 2013
16–35 mm IS f/4 2014
100–400 mm II f/4.5-5.6	2014
11–24 mm f/4 2015

Don't forget that the EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II @ $7k isn't an L lens


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