# There Will be a 4K 5D Camera [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 26, 2016)

```
<p>A good source is quite sure that <em>“there will be a 5D camera that shoots 4K video”</em>. The specifications of the video features are unknown, along with any other specifications for the camera.</p>
<p>The source was quite sure that an announcement for the next 5D will not come before the EOS-1D X Mark II begins shipping, which we’re told will definitely happen in April. There won’t be an overlap like there was with the EOS-1D X and EOS 5D Mark III roll out.</p>
<p>More to come…</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## clarksbrother (Feb 26, 2016)

NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.

If a 4K version was coming - NAB would be a good spot to showcase.


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## Haydn1971 (Feb 26, 2016)

The range widens ?

Two x high Mpx models
A 4k video version
A heterosexual 5D ?


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## Chaitanya (Feb 26, 2016)

but in order to "protect" expensive cameras, 5D video will be castrated to the point that Panasonic G7 and Sony Rx series will be better performing and more advanced than this 3000$ Canon ****.


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## H. Jones (Feb 26, 2016)

Let's see what the next big thing that's "going to destroy Canon" is when the next 5D brings Canon back to the lead in DSLR video and the 1DX2 shows it has great dynamic range. :


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## Flamingtree (Feb 26, 2016)

This could be pretty sweet if..... the non 4k 5D Mk4 is a cheaper model. Because for me (I think) I want a 5D Mk4 but will never use 4k (or any other video feature for that matter), so I if I can save a bit, happy days!


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## plam_1980 (Feb 26, 2016)

I always thought it is more logical that there will be no overlapping, unlike the previous time. Many people tried to correct me that 5D mark IV will not cannibalize 1-series sales, but I believe Canon will not risk the preliminary orders of 1D X II by announcing 5D mark IV before they are shipped.
This can only mean that the new 5D will be awesome, at least I hope so ;D


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## clarksbrother (Feb 26, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> but in order to "protect" expensive cameras, 5D video will be castrated to the point that Panasonic G7 and Sony Rx series will be better performing and more advanced than this 3000$ Canon ****.



I own a Panasonic GH4 (basically a higher end G7). Great, great camera. But there's one thing those cameras can't do. Make their sensor bigger. As good as the GH4 is (and is is good). It's light sensitivity still pales in comparison to my 8 year old 5D Mark II.


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## clarksbrother (Feb 26, 2016)

plam_1980 said:


> I always thought it is more logical that there will be no overlapping, unlike the previous time. Many people tried to correct me that 5D mark IV will not cannibalize 1-series sales, but I believe Canon will not risk the preliminary orders of 1D X II by announcing 5D mark IV before they are shipped.
> This can only mean that the new 5D will be awesome, at least I hope so ;D



I like the way you think. And to a certain extent that's probably true. That said - the 1D and 5D series are very different cameras. Would the 5D canabalize the 1D? Maybe a little, but my sense is the audience of who buys a $6,000 camera vs a $3,500 camera is different enough where the effect would not be that large.


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## K (Feb 26, 2016)

Not sure why Canon would offer up 2 different 5D cameras just for 4K. If someone is that serious about good 4K, they move up to the 1DX2. That also fits Canon's M.O. of up selling. 

It will be one busy FF lineup for sure. 6D2, 5D4, 5D4 4k, 5DS, 5DSR, 1DX2

6 Full frame cameras...

Stands to reason that the 5DS will go away next generation like the D800. While I personally like the AA filter, the internet hordes of pixel peepers hate it. These are the folks that will pixel peep all day and admire the detail and resolution, but ignores the destruction of IQ due to moire. A bizarre contradiction. Anyway, not trying to sidetrack the discussion.

A 6D2 is logical, Canon needs an "entry" FF. Otherwise, that segment is wide open for NIkon's taking. 

In Crop...

There's the flagship 7D2, then the enthusiast 80D. 

That's 2 in the $1K+ segment.

After that, there's 2 Rebels.

4 crops, 3 of which are consumer oriented.

Maybe this is a sign of things to come - the DSLR market moving toward more specialist bodies with more offerings in FF. With less choice on the low end crops where people buy in huge volume and don't really care.

My guess is, the 5D4 will be one camera, it will have 4K because it has to - but that 4K will in some way or form not be as good as the 1DX2. Or it might be as good, but lacking other video features. Hard to say. This satisfies the video fanatics out there (kinda). 6D2 will happen. Then the 5DS will go away by next generation. They'll probably release the 5DS Mark II, which will be without an AA filter, and drop the 'R' ...but that is a longggg way out. That is a specialty camera, and in the realm that it is designed for - it's IQ will serve the needs for at least 4-5 years.

Four FF body lineup is more realistic I think. Across those 4, what is there that you can't do? Absolutely nothing.


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## plam_1980 (Feb 26, 2016)

clarksbrother said:


> plam_1980 said:
> 
> 
> > I always thought it is more logical that there will be no overlapping, unlike the previous time. Many people tried to correct me that 5D mark IV will not cannibalize 1-series sales, but I believe Canon will not risk the preliminary orders of 1D X II by announcing 5D mark IV before they are shipped.
> ...



I cannot say that the majority of the people who placed pre-orders will change their mind, but I believe there will be quite a few, and any number of change will be a loss for Canon (of course it depends on the profit per body and not on the total turnover, but I suspect that the profit of 1D bodies is bigger than the profit on 5D bodies, but I might be totally wrong, this is an interesting off-topic matter, does anyone have any idea if that is the case?).
Perhaps it will be interesting to start a poll for the readers of CR who have placed pre-orders what (if any) features of a new 5D will make them to cancel their pre-order


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## roxics (Feb 26, 2016)

At this point I almost don't care anymore. It's not going to have the kind of features most video people desire these days anyway. Just getting something as basic as a resolution bump doesn't cover other important factors like increased dynamic range, a 10-bit codec/compressed raw recording, clean 4K out of the HDMI jack, 4K DCI spec resolution for those that desire it, peaking/waveforms, CLog and a way to load a LUT for display while shooting, a non-line skipping/non-cropping video feed off the sensor's full width, variable frame rates in single frame increments, a proper XLR audio solution that attaches to the camera in some way other than an 1/8" mic jack, an EVF/OVF hybrid, the list can go on. 

I guess I'm just coming to terms with the fact that DSLRs will never have the kind of features we video people desire and they probably shouldn't either, as much as it would be nice. It is a pipe dream to get everything we need for stills and video in a single camera. It's not like this Canon is going to have some amazing new UHD capability that other cameras don't already have.


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## KarstenReis (Feb 26, 2016)

K said:


> Not sure why Canon would offer up 2 different 5D cameras just for 4K. If someone is that serious about good 4K, they move up to the 1DX2. That also fits Canon's M.O. of up selling.
> 
> It will be one busy FF lineup for sure. 6D2, 5D4, 5D4 4k, 5DS, 5DSR, 1DX2
> 
> ...



I remember reading an interview from a Canon exec or some post saying that Canon was moving to more specialized cameras and therefore would have a larger diversity of camera bodies to fit individual needs better. This would explain the divergence in series and expansion of additional model ranges.


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## Sharlin (Feb 26, 2016)

roxics said:


> I guess I'm just coming to terms with the fact that DSLRs will never have the kind of features we video people desire and they probably shouldn't either, as much as it would be nice. It is a pipe dream to get everything we need for stills and video in a single camera.



Right. And as a 98% stills photographer, I definitely don't want to pay extra for features that I'll never ever use.

The thing is, DSLRs got video features because there's popular demand for that. It makes sense to include just enough video stuff to increase/keep up sales in the consumer/enthusiast segment in an era where an exclusively still camera just wouldn't cut it. Movie features help pay R&D bills, but you hit diminishing returns pretty quickly once you start adding advanced things that fewer and fewer people want - making it necessary to raise prices which in turn would drive away the stills shooters which, like it or not, still are the primary focus group for DSLRs.


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## PureClassA (Feb 26, 2016)

Look guys, I know MOST wedding pros don't do video with their DSLRs ... but I know a few who DO. Their videography services utilize DSLRs (specifically 5D2) and their work has a beautiful organic film look. There are lots of other NON-stills guys out there (students and indy film guys) who like/need/want to use DSLRs. If it costs Canon an extra $100 to add a heat pipe and tweak the Digic chip to open up several thousand more unit sales, you DO it. 

If it's a matter of doing a split line, which this CR quote could seem to suggest "there will be A 5D camera that shoots 4k" then that works too. Same body same ergonomic controls, same everything as a 5D4 but called a 5Dc with a different sensor and menu system perhaps (more tailored for video). 

Either way, we stills guys need to stop fist banging over video. There's a another, already well-established potential audience of customers out there for Canon who desire DSLR sized cameras for video. Canon would be foolish not to address them in some form or fashion when it would be so easy for them to do it. 

The more push they have into the Cinema EOS line, the more pressure it puts to make a DSLR sized camera that can accompany them. I think we are at that point...or at least I hope we are. A $15k C300II, a $6000 C100III, and a 5DC at $3500 is a well rounded 4K line up.


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## Orangutan (Feb 26, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> roxics said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I'm just coming to terms with the fact that DSLRs will never have the kind of features we video people desire and they probably shouldn't either, as much as it would be nice. It is a pipe dream to get everything we need for stills and video in a single camera.
> ...



Which specific video features would increase cost?


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## slclick (Feb 26, 2016)

Stills only shooters have always been reassured that the addition of video does not change or at least significantly raise the cost of a high end dslr body. That is good common sense. What about now with the possibility of 4/5 k?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 26, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > roxics said:
> ...


heat dissipation, very high speed recording card, very powerful processor (maybe two cores).


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## jebrady03 (Feb 26, 2016)

I can't remember where I saw it, but I saw an interview with a Canon exec who was asked about including video features into a still camera and it's result being an increased cost to the consumer. The gist of his response was "those people are idiots". More specifically I think he said something along the lines of that's not the case. But what I took away from it was "those people are idiots". I believe he also said something along the lines of video being a natural extension of their progression in stills, and not so much a separate R&D path.


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 26, 2016)

dilbert said:


> clarksbrother said:
> 
> 
> > NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.
> ...



It'll probably be the other way around, it's more difficult to produce a decent video image when trying to downsample from a very high resolution sensor. I wouldn't be surprised if both cameras have 4K, but most who focus on video will lean towards the lower resolution sensor.


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## jebrady03 (Feb 26, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> heat dissipation, very high speed recording card, very powerful processor (maybe two cores).



Certainly that increases the cost of production, but it also increases the size of the market. It's absolutely possible that the increased cost is offset by the increased number of units produced and sold. Additionally, there's a possibility that the cost of the unit is actually DECREASED due to the volume sold.


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## bsbeamer (Feb 26, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Either way, we stills guys need to stop fist banging over video. There's a another, already well-established potential audience of customers out there for Canon who desire DSLR sized cameras for video. Canon would be foolish not to address them in some form or fashion when it would be so easy for them to do it.
> 
> The more push they have into the Cinema EOS line, the more pressure it puts to make a DSLR sized camera that can accompany them. I think we are at that point...or at least I hope we are. A $15k C300II, a $6000 C100III, and a 5DC at $3500 is a well rounded 4K line up.



Thank you for stating this. I am one of those "video guys" and it irritates me when I hear people screaming that video is adding unnecessary features/cost to their cameras. Maybe it's time for that audience/market to move to medium format or dedicated high-megapixel DSLR, rather than the 20-25MP range of most of the other DSLR options. If they are that dedicated to stills only, that path makes a lot of sense and the options are already available in the 5DS/5DSR line... but "unfortunately" they still offer 1080/30p video. Maybe release a firmware that removes the video to appease them? Sounds a lot like a 6D replacement to me, if the line continues.

5DMk# line = video and stills
5DS# line = high MP stills

The price points you mention would be nice for the market, but I'm not sure it's a reality at launch. Also have to remember there is a C500 replacement in the works that likely will be $30K+ to compete against RED, Arri and high-end Sony.


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## docsmith (Feb 26, 2016)

Very smart to minimize the overlap, get the 1DX out for 3-6 months before announcing the 5DIV. I am expecting it Fall 2016 or Spring 2017.

As for the 4K video. I am most interested and most happy about this not because of 4K video, but because I want the 5DIV to not be crippled in any way. It should be an elite event photographer camera body. But I am, personally, more interested in all the other elite features (give me 8 fps, exposure linked to AF points, etc).

As for splitting the 5D line....my guess is that the higher up the 5DIII moves, the better this news is for the 6DII and the 6DII becomes more of a 5DIV "light" with 1080p video, more AF points (20-40?), smaller body with lower weather resistance.

That creates a very nice lineup, IMO.


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## MikeT (Feb 26, 2016)

Not being knowledgeable about the internal workings of cameras, forgive me if this is a stupid question... Cost aside, is it possible that inclusion of 4k video forces compromises in the camera design that would not have to be made if 4k were excluded? Or in other words, would a better stills camera be possible if 4k were not required?


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 26, 2016)

MikeT said:


> Not being knowledgeable about the internal workings of cameras, forgive me if this is a stupid question... Cost aside, is it possible that inclusion of 4k video forces compromises in the camera design that would not have to be made if 4k were excluded? Or in other words, would a better stills camera be possible if 4k were not required?



Not really, some can argue that it will improve the experience for still shooters, especially for action and wild life photography. Simply put, a camera, both photo and video, is just a image sensor with a recording device. Improving the recording device to support higher quality video will not hurt the photo quality. If heat is an issue, improving the cooling of the sensor will help decrease noise.

However, look at what Magic Lantern has done with RAW video. They're not experiencing any issues with overheating as a result of RAW video, even with the 50D, which never shot video in the first place. The only limitation they're experiencing is the write speed, if that wasn't an issue, they would be shooting close to 4K on cameras that were never designed to shoot video.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 26, 2016)

MikeT said:


> Not being knowledgeable about the internal workings of cameras, forgive me if this is a stupid question... Cost aside, is it possible that inclusion of 4k video *forces* compromises in the camera design that would not have to be made if 4k were excluded? Or in other words, would a better stills camera be possible if 4k were not required?



Forces? Not necessarily. But since for a video rig things like a mechanical shutter, reflex mechanism, PDAF sensor, strobe control, etc. are irrelevant, manufacturers may be tempted to save costs in those areas, resulting in a lesser stills camera.


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## roxics (Feb 26, 2016)

I don't think Canon will split the 5D off into a video version as well. It would make sense on some level but I don't think they'd do it. I think the only reason the 1D C existed is because Canon was getting a lot of input from Hollywood DPs that were using 5D cameras and probably figured they could make a version of their highest end DSLR with cinema features and sell it for a fortune. Which they tried to do. But I don't think they got the response to it they were looking for. Which is why now I don't think we're seeing a 1D C mkII, they've basically just rolled some of those features into the 1D X mkII and called it a day. 

That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.


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## RGF (Feb 26, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> roxics said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I'm just coming to terms with the fact that DSLRs will never have the kind of features we video people desire and they probably shouldn't either, as much as it would be nice. It is a pipe dream to get everything we need for stills and video in a single camera.
> ...



The cost of the camera is (most likely) not determine if it support video or not. The price is driven by marketing forces. In the end Canon will include features that fit in the camera (size is limited) and what will drive sales.

I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.


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## Cali Capture (Feb 26, 2016)

I think it is a telling that the possibility of a another 5D split, (Still pic feature priority/video feature priority) makes sense given the Canon CEO interview a few months ago. He was concerned about the size of the DX, didn't like it, yet he also mentioned the heat and space issue reguarding 4K video. So it seams logical they would split features to give us a great smaller 5D that would excel in 4K, Perhaps very close to DX specs in Video. Then Give us a great Stills 5D that comes close in frame rate, MP (perhaps/likely Higher), DR ect. With the basic philosophy, you can buy a DX Mk II and get it all, with a bigger body! Or, you can buy two 5D's and get the best (for your needs) side of the DX in a 5D body! From all that I've read this makes the most sense for Canon's bottom line and addressing the needs of the consumer.


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 26, 2016)

dilbert said:


> clarksbrother said:
> 
> 
> > NAB is the second to last full week of April so there's a halfway decent chance the 1DX Mark II will ship prior to. The interesting part about the whole thing is that it was "there will be a 5D with 4K video" hinting the line could split? (i.e. Sony A7S / A7R) - Then again, it already sort of has with the 5DS.
> ...


That would make the statement put out at the time of the 5DS / 5DS R by the senior Canon designer look stupid. He said there was no room for a headphone socket due to space constraints to use USB 3.0 for faster data transfer. A fully fledged 4K DSLR needs a microphone socket and headphone socket as well as HDMI and USB 3.0 so on that basis the body shell would need to be redesigned.


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## mkabi (Feb 26, 2016)

roxics said:


> That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.



I'm not trying to pick a fight with you specifically... cause a lot of people say it.
But I have to ask... why 12MP? Just cause Sony did it, doesn't mean that Canon has to copy them...
I mean Panasonic did 16MP in the GH4, granted smaller sensor but still has DCI 4K and UHD, as opposed to UHD only in the Sony.

I'd much prefer 16MP over the 12MP. I wouldn't mind the 18MP recycled from the 1DC... this is if its a 5DC with more video features. I don't expect DPAF, nor 4K @ 60, but 4K @ 24 and 1080/120p and C-log would be nice.


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## InterMurph (Feb 26, 2016)

dilbert said:


> With a 50MP sensor, it is easier to crop down to an 8K video frame and then encode that for 4K video like Sony do with the A7RII. That sort of 2->1 down-sampling is very light weight.


This is incorrect.

The AR7 II has two 4K video modes: one in which it uses the entire sensor, and one in which it uses an APS-C/Super35 crop in the middle of the sensor.

The former requires more computing horsepower, and the camera does manage to convert the full 42MP sensor into 4K video. But the quality is substantially lower than that recorded in the latter (crop) mode. Just about any video-centric review of this camera will demonstrate this.

The problem seems to be in the immense computing power required to convert the full sensor resolution to 4K video. Or something like that.

But the problem is real, at least on the Sony camera.


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## symmar22 (Feb 26, 2016)

IMO the Sony A7 segmentation makes the most sense, I'd like to see the 5D line split into 3 branches :

- 5D4 "Standard" 24-28Mpx, 1080 video.

- 5D4 "Studio/High Res". Nikon got it right with the D810, low pass filter is not needed for such high resolution sensors, most people who buy it want the most sharpness possible, hence the likely disappointing sales of the "vanilla" 5DS. Video features to be determined, but 1080 seems enough.

- 5D4 "Cinema", 16-20Mpx, fully video featured including 4K.


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## InterMurph (Feb 26, 2016)

mkabi said:


> I mean Panasonic did 16MP in the GH4, granted smaller sensor but still has DCI 4K and UHD, as opposed to UHD only in the Sony.



The GH4's sensor is indeed 16MP, but the entire sensor is not used for 4K video:







As you can see, the sensor is 4,608 x 2,592 pixels (light purple box). But a 4K-wide crop is used in 4K video mode (dark purple box); either 4096x2160 (DCI 4K) or 3840x2160 (UHD 4K).

In HD mode, the entire sensor width is used. But not in 4K mode.


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## rs (Feb 26, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



If it does everything anyone needs for video, one clear feature that increases cost is the sales tax involved in breaking the 30 min recording barrier. 

On the other hand, improved heat dissipation helps long exposure stills photography such as astro. More processing power never hurts (although there's always a balance between cost and performance, and if the extra power comes in the form of a dedicated video encoder chip, it's of no use to stills photographers), and if the 5D IV does ~8fps and has quite a reasonable number of MP, the higher cost of faster cards won't necessarily be a bad thing for stills.


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## Don Haines (Feb 26, 2016)

jeffa4444 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > clarksbrother said:
> ...


Yes, but Canon has a lot of clever people. I am fairly sure that they could fit all those connectors onto a camera body.


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## Besisika (Feb 26, 2016)

RGF said:


> I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.


And I think, that is the proper attitude. 
And there is the opposite side who wants all possible video features to be on a DSLR. They should take the same attitude as well.
It is a good thing that we express our needs and wants so that they would know and predict how many would be interested, but there should be a balance between the 0% video vs all video whistles and bells.


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## Don Haines (Feb 26, 2016)

Besisika said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.
> ...


I agree!

We can't forget that what we are purchasing is a stills camera that happens to do video.


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## fallsong (Feb 26, 2016)

All I want to know is what will be the DR for 1Dx 2.

With 8 L lens and 2 bodies, my patience is almost running out.


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## bdeutsch (Feb 26, 2016)

Luds34 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > <em>“there will be a 5D camera that shoots 4K video”</em>
> ...


Bad joke? I don't get it. Is that why it's bad?
Deutsch Photography, Inc.: NYC Wedding Photographer | Actor and Corporate Headshots NYC | Family and Baby Portraits


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 26, 2016)

Besisika said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree that video is of limited value to me, but I don't expect Canon to omit it because I don't want it.
> ...



I'm fine with that. As a producer, I'd just like the video features that are now in the 1DX Mark II backed in for internal recording, along with the menu features that are in Magic Lantern/the GH4, those are reasonable and can easily be implemented through software. Anything extra wanted by video producers can be made through add ons, XLR through the hot shoe like the one Sony offers would be great, the same with the GH4 offering an expansion for SDI. 

These requests are perfectly reasonable, the add on options would allow the camera to be still focused with video options, or allow a user to rig it as a video camera. Canon would then be able to make an extra grand or two on those accessories.


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## RickWagoner (Feb 26, 2016)

Yes it will have 4k. 


What i am not hearing is anything named 5D which has me puzzled. Either Canon is not going with the name or they are playing this one super close to their chest. Not sure the possibility of Canon not coming out with another 5D this year but if they are usually i would of heard of it by now. They could be in the final pre release stages for it which would mean the only testers on the ground are their ambassadors giving final quality and bug work which is what is done right before the announcement. Ambassadors can keep their mouth shut the best as they always have. 

One question i have for you all here is what big trade shows are coming up this year, esp ones that are more video based?

Canon won't announce such a camera without a trade show. 


Last year i know there were lots of 6d labeled testers out but they could have been 5D in 6D labeled bodies. Also the 7d3 will be Canons first 4k crop body and its coming in 2017.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 26, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Clever enough to question the value of the N3 (remote trigger) or PC (flash sync) connectors in a video rig, for sure.
Pull one out in favor of headphone support.


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## Don Haines (Feb 26, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > jeffa4444 said:
> ...


like the one with the little headphone signal above the flash sync? 

The picture is of the connectors on the side of a 7D2.... and remember, these are still cameras that shoot video, not video cameras that shoot stills. For the primary use, remote triggers and flash sync are important features that should not be given up. That said, the 7D2 layout shows that with the will to do it, you can fit in all the required connectors.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 26, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Yes, the image I was looking at is attached (latest 5D, in which canon said they could not package a headphone jack). Fitting one in a 7D doesn't mean they can fit one in a 5D; you have to look at what else is in there (though they likely can).

They are very important on a stills camera which happens to shoot video, not so much on a video camera which happens to shoot stills (which I perhaps mistakenly thought to be the context of this part of the discussion).

Besides, one could argue that with hotshoe controllers the PC port is largely unimportant anyway, and with wifi the remote trigger largely unimportant.


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## hne (Feb 26, 2016)

RickWagoner said:


> One question i have for you all here is what big trade shows are coming up this year, esp ones that are more video based?



NAB in April and IBC in September are very video oriented (with a big broadcast touch, but you'd also find some cinema companies there) that would be rather obvious trade shows to make a big splash with video capable DSLRs but for a 5D series camera you could also argue that WPPI starts next Thursday.


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## roxics (Feb 26, 2016)

mkabi said:


> roxics said:
> 
> 
> > That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.
> ...



Because a 3:2 sensor with a 4240 x 2832 pixel count would require very little cropping on the sides to achieve the 4096x2160 image needed for DCI 4K. Which means three things:

1. You don't need to crop the sensor a lot to get a 1:1 photosite per pixel output.
2. You don't need more processing power to downsample a larger resolution sensor (with full readout) to a 4K image size. Which could increase heat.
3. You don't need to line-skip from a higher res sensor to get a lower res 4K output (which we all know doesn't result in very good video). 

Ideally #2 is better if you have the processing power and start with a higher res sensor because then you can get better color out of the image.


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## Don Haines (Feb 26, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> Yes, the image I was looking at is attached (latest 5D, in which canon said they could not package a headphone jack). Fitting one in a 7D doesn't mean they can fit one in a 5D; you have to look at what else is in there (though they likely can).
> 
> They are very important on a stills camera which happens to shoot video, not so much on a video camera which happens to shoot stills (which I perhaps mistakenly thought to be the context of this part of the discussion).
> 
> Besides, one could argue that with hotshoe controllers the PC port is largely unimportant anyway, and with wifi the remote trigger largely unimportant.


Yes, but if they can fit it on the 7D2, a crop body, they can surely fit it on a full frame body. Saying they couldn't is a very poor excuse. Who knows, perhaps when the 5D4 comes out it will have the 7D2 connector module 

As to the sync connector, yes, you can do it through a hotshoe adaptor (and might I add that it works quite well with a studio flash) so getting rid of it would not be the end of the world, but as long as there is space for it, I like it. I haven't used the hotshoe adaptor yet on my 7D2, but if the PC port was not there, I would.

As to remote control, I look forward to the day when all Canons have a decent WiFi interface and you can not only trigger the camera, but properly control it. Even then, there are still times where you need that manual trigger, particularly with astrophotography where you have a tracking head set up and programmed to take multiple exposures.

I think that at the moment we are caught between legacy features that people don't want to give up and a resistance to accept new ways.


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## nautal (Feb 26, 2016)

Could there be a mix up and have a 4D camera with 5K, anyone?


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 27, 2016)

DonH said:


> As to the sync connector, yes, you can do it through a hotshoe adaptor (and might I add that it works quite well with a studio flash) so getting rid of it would not be the end of the world, but as long as there is space for it, I like it.



Yah I like it too. When I do single-light setups it's easier that popping batteries in my triggers. But it is something easily carved out of a video rig.

And yes, I find it very unlikely they couldn't have packaged one on the 5DS.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 27, 2016)

dilbert said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > And yes, I find it very unlikely they couldn't have packaged one on the 5DS.
> ...



An area where if they tried they likely could have packaged a headphone jack. The PWB looks rather empty and there is free space. The connectors aren't that big, particularly the surface mount variety.


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## rfd78 (Feb 27, 2016)

What about this for the 5D line-up?


- 5DS / 5DSR (without 4k video)

- 5DX (the "5D mark IV", with 4k video)

- 5DC (the "6D Mark II", without 4k video)


Since the "6D Mark II" is bound for improvements, probably putting it somewhat similar to the 5D Mark III (some things on par, a few things better and some other things worse?), it wouldn't make sense to keep calling it "6D", so the entry level FF camera would be placed in the 5D family.


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## Ozarker (Feb 27, 2016)

plam_1980 said:


> I always thought it is more logical that there will be no overlapping, unlike the previous time. Many people tried to correct me that 5D mark IV will not cannibalize 1-series sales, but I believe Canon will not risk the preliminary orders of 1D X II by announcing 5D mark IV before they are shipped.
> This can only mean that the new 5D will be awesome, at least I hope so ;D



Hilarious. Thinking that a 1 or two week span of release vs. announcement will hurt sales of the 1DX Mark II. Why is there always the assumption that the 1DX Mark II is the profit center the 5D Mark IV could never be? Because the 1D costs more at retail? Selling a single 1DX II that may profit at $600 each vs selling 10/ 5D IV that profit at $300 each is how money is made. 

Retail price means little as to profit and even less to overall margins. (reference rebadged Sony cameras with the Hasselblad logo) 

Volume of sales is where it is at. Canon is not worried about these two cameras cannibalizing each other.

I agree that the new 5D IV will be an awesome camera, but the idea that it will hurt 1D II sales is just silly.

Flagship status does not necessarily = more profitable product line. The volume of sales of the 5D line probably eats the lunch of the 1DX line everyday and Sunday too.

Guys deciding between a 1DX Mark II vs 5D Mark IV are probably rare exceptions in the market between these two cameras.

Canon risks nothing with overlap. Overlap is already built in. A month or two difference (even 6 months) between releases isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.


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## Tugela (Feb 27, 2016)

Whether the 5D will or won't get 4K is a non event. Whatever they do, it will be at best the same implementation as the 1DXM2. A new processor is not going to magically appear, so they will be stuck with the limitations of the current Digic ones.


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## Pebbles (Feb 27, 2016)

This is exactly it. Even if there is a 5D with 4K, it will be the same low quality compressed crap the 1DX has. Perhaps Magic Lantern will eventually give us access to RAW, perhaps not, but on release we will have crappy 4K.


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## mb66energy (Feb 27, 2016)

Tugela said:


> Whether the 5D will or won't get 4K is a non event. Whatever they do, it will be at best the same implementation as the 1DXM2. A new processor is not going to magically appear, so they will be stuck with the limitations of the current Digic ones.



What if the sensor design allows for less processing power? Then a current digic sensor maybe can handle larger bandwidth/better quality.

I see 
5D S for high res
1Dx ii for fast action
5D ii for medium fast action with high quality and medium (30MPix) resolution and maybe great video quality
(a universal instrument for the production of visual material)

Canon needs a new product and I am shure they will try to launch again a "first" like with the 5D ii . So I am expecting Dual Pixel AF for the next 5D - implementation. If you can do it with 24MPix on APS-C it should be easy to do it on FF for ~30MPix ...

Just my 2ct


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## whothafunk (Feb 27, 2016)

Whoever thinks 5D4 will be a 30MP DSLR better get off your unicorn asap.


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## Don Haines (Feb 27, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Guys deciding between a 1DX Mark II vs 5D Mark IV are probably rare exceptions in the market between these two cameras.


Agreed, probabably not a lot choosing between the two...and the ones that choose a 1DX2 give more money to Canon's coffers..... And the ones who go for a 5D variant (who really did have money for the 1DX2) are so happy with the money they saved they spent it on a new lens.....


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## clarksbrother (Feb 27, 2016)

mkabi said:


> roxics said:
> 
> 
> > That said, I would love to see a 5D C with say a 12MP sensor that did full sensor readout and downsampled to 4K in both DCI spec and UHD. It would be amazing if it also shot compressed raw video at say a 3:1 or 4:1 compression. It would be great if it also had CLog and an XLR adapter and a bunch of other amazing things. But I don't think any of that will happen.
> ...



12MP makes the most sense because a standard image sensor is a 3:2 ratio whereas video is 16:9. Since 4K video is essentially a resolution of 8mp, simply by cropping off the top/bottom of the frame, you get the exact amount of pixels you need for 4K video while still using the whole width. Also - it means you don't have to do any downsampling which means less processor power that can be used to either extend battery life and shoot longer or to devote towards other features such as RAW video recording or higher bitrates. In addition, the larger pixel sites let in a lot more light which means much better ISO performance.


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## gsealy (Feb 27, 2016)

Pebbles said:


> This is exactly it. Even if there is a 5D with 4K, it will be the same low quality compressed crap the 1DX has. Perhaps Magic Lantern will eventually give us access to RAW, perhaps not, but on release we will have crappy 4K.



If you want that, then go here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-C500-EF-Mount-Cinema-Camera-NEW-In-Box-FREE-SHIPPING-/201530637477?hash=item2eec297ca5:g:tYoAAOSwGotWpmOg

No need to wait, speculate, or complain.


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## mb66energy (Feb 27, 2016)

whothafunk said:


> Whoever thinks 5D4 will be a 30MP DSLR better get off your unicorn asap.



Do you think it will be 36 MPix?


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## shutterlag (Feb 27, 2016)

The fact that this is "news" is an epci facepalm.


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## kten (Feb 27, 2016)

I don't get demanding raw and 4K in mid range stills dslr. Seems like a marketing thing that people buy into rather than professional need. Yeah I played around with ML and like it for personal/low end production but I don't make living off high end vid. My cousin is DP (and just broke into directing too) wouldn't dream of trying to use a mid level still cam with ML on a large production set because if you have a need it needs to be perfectly reliable and not clunky. Pulling a battery half way through a rush because of lock-ups or flakey issues like the new sony's have isn't an option. The lower end market like wedding togs I know have enough PP to do without going near that so not worth it to them either.

Canon don't leave the features out due to spite but because they want tools that work all the time, everytime and in all conditions. All the Canons (an a few nikons) I've used do that, that is why I think sony are still prosumer toys in comparisson because they lack the conservative just works thing in favour of tick as many marketing boxes as you can which pros don't care about as much as regular consumers as they'd rather have what they need just work instead of cram as many features that only work flawless on a good day.


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## Pompo (Feb 27, 2016)

*Re: high res and high FPS are covered..what's missing HIGH ISO KING!*

Since high res and high FPS are covered now (5Ds /r and 1DXII) Canon now needs to introduce the king of high iso 5DX clean ISO 51200!


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## Quackator (Feb 27, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> Which specific video features would increase cost?



4k video does, because it requires much better cooling and 
consumes a lot of power. Also, it will require Cfast.


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## J.R. (Feb 27, 2016)

Quackator said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Which specific video features would increase cost?
> ...



Yes, and that's the reason I feel that the 5D4 will get 4K functional like in the Nikon D5 - with a 3/5 minute limit.


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## Quackator (Feb 27, 2016)

My biggest gripe is - and has always been - the flimsy nature of all those connectors.
I'd love LEMO plugs, USB type C, BNC or whatever possible.

At least, don't solder surface mount connectors to the mainboard, 
make it easy to service broken plugs. Modular connector interfaces, please!


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## gregory4000 (Feb 27, 2016)

J.R. said:


> Quackator said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...


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## gregory4000 (Feb 27, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Look guys, I know MOST wedding pros don't do video with their DSLRs ... but I know a few who DO. Their videography services utilize DSLRs (specifically 5D2) and their work has a beautiful organic film look. There are lots of other NON-stills guys out there (students and indy film guys) who like/need/want to use DSLRs. If it costs Canon an extra $100 to add a heat pipe and tweak the Digic chip to open up several thousand more unit sales, you DO it.
> 
> If it's a matter of doing a split line, which this CR quote could seem to suggest "there will be A 5D camera that shoots 4k" then that works too. Same body same ergonomic controls, same everything as a 5D4 but called a 5Dc with a different sensor and menu system perhaps (more tailored for video).
> 
> ...



Bravo, well said.
I would like to add, for those who don't understand why a stills camera should have video.
Well, think of it this way. You can use your cell phone to shoot video ( almost all cell phones shoots still and video WHY?) or if you have this passion, purchase a $5000 video unit. But if your content with having 90% of high video quality and be able to use all your quality still lenes and if shooting full frame can have beautiful bokah in your clips that a $5000 camera may not have due to it's smaller sensor and best of all, this is installed on your great stills camera at really no extra cost. Why in the hell would you decline this feature on more selfishly, for many who may like to shoot a movie clip once in a while.


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## douglaurent (Feb 27, 2016)

H. Jones said:


> Let's see what the next big thing that's "going to destroy Canon" is when the next 5D brings Canon back to the lead in DSLR video and the 1DX2 shows it has great dynamic range. :



It doesn't need a next big thing, because an old thing like a Sony A7R2 will still be ahead of a new 5D4 4K camera because of it's many features only possible on mirrorless, having 42MP and no limitations to protect the own film camera department like Canon does it. 

Nevertheless I did order the 1DX2 because it has 4K AND 60fps - something that the A7R2 doesn't have and might not have in the next generation because of heat problems, and something that no other Canon DSLR might get within this decade.


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## time123 (Feb 27, 2016)

I do hope that if Canon releases a 5D camera with 4K that they offer a non-4K version as well. From a build perspective if they wanted to do 4K right there would likely need to be a lot more additional technology exclusively geared towards video capture such as dedicated processors, stronger heat dissipation components, more complex software, possible software licensing costs for specific codecs, etc. All of this additional tech will also cost more and that will simply get passed on down to the consumer but I'd rather spend that money on glass. High quality video recording is an very computationally taxing effort.

I see this like the whole Image Stabilization discussion on lenses that don't have it; you can't just tack on a single chip and call it a day, rather it takes a completely different and significantly more challenging engineering approach with many new additional expenses. If I wanted to record high quality, ultra high definition video I'd get a video camera. For me it boils down to the fact that I'd rather have Canon focusing their stills camera division on stills camera technology and their video camera division focusing on video camera technology. Some co-mingling is OK though but where do you draw the line between the two. We'll see soon (or not soon) enough though.


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## Alejandro (Feb 27, 2016)

Since japanese hate the number 4, i can totally see a 5dp (5d Photo) and a 5dc (5d Cinema).


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## CanoKnight (Feb 27, 2016)

Pebbles said:


> This is exactly it. Even if there is a 5D with 4K, it will be the same low quality compressed crap the 1DX has. Perhaps Magic Lantern will eventually give us access to RAW, perhaps not, but on release we will have crappy 4K.



Have you seen the 1dx ii video from canon Australia? If the 5d4 /5dc is anything like it I will order it pronto !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p67plTeMyD8


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## time123 (Feb 27, 2016)

RickSpringfield said:


> ... This 5D IV could be a Windows ME / Vista esque camera ...



People would be lining up around the block to buy a camera that takes 10 minutes to start up, automatically reboots between every 1 and 100th shot, randomly deletes photos, requires new stability patches to be installed monthly, frequently phones back home to Canon with who knows what kind of information, and occasionally does nothing but show a blue screen with technical jargon on it ;D


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## winfel (Feb 27, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> It doesn't need a next big thing, because an old thing like a Sony A7R2 will still be ahead of a new 5D4 4K camera because of it's many features only possible on mirrorless, having 42MP and no limitations to protect the own film camera department like Canon does it.



Is there any feature that is only possible on mirrorless?


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## Nakean (Feb 27, 2016)

clarksbrother said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > but in order to "protect" expensive cameras, 5D video will be castrated to the point that Panasonic G7 and Sony Rx series will be better performing and more advanced than this 3000$ Canon ****.
> ...



You can't be serious. If the gh4 pixels were as blurry as those coming from the 5dmkII or MKIII for that matter, I'm sure it wouldn't exhibit any noise either. I own all three and when I look at 5D footage it doesn't even seem in focus! Even at GH4's 1080p.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 27, 2016)

dilbert said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Sure, but there are multiple ways to skin a cat (or attach a door). Point being, even if it didn't go there with all else being equal, I suspect that if they really wanted to, or if they deemed it important, they could have included one.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 27, 2016)

Quackator said:


> My biggest gripe is - and has always been - the flimsy nature of all those connectors.
> I'd love LEMO plugs, USB type C, BNC or whatever possible.
> 
> At least, don't solder surface mount connectors to the mainboard,
> make it easy to service broken plugs. Modular connector interfaces, please!



In my experience surface mount is easier to replace than through hole; just need enough local heat to reflow the pads, not through the thickness of the board. Through hole is more robust, but the connector is supported by the panel so it's a non issue.


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## clarksbrother (Feb 28, 2016)

Nakean said:


> clarksbrother said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



Blurry? Do you mean noise level/noise floor? There's a definite difference in the noise floor of the 5D series vs the GH4, basically in terms of similar ISO performance I've found the 5D Mark III has about a 2 stop advantage. The 5D Mark II a 1-1.5 stop advantage. 

If you're having issues of blur, than I strongly suggest you get your lenses looked at as that's an optics problem, not an electronics one. When I've tested, I've used the same lens on both the 5D Mark II (and the III from work) as I do on my GH4 (with a Metabones speedbooster adapter). At same video resolutions, they're equally sharp, which is to say, very.


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## pwp (Feb 28, 2016)

Alejandro said:


> Since Japanese hate the number 4, i can totally see a 5dp (5d Photo) and a 5dc (5d Cinema).



Yet one of the best in the 1-Series line was the still viable 1D Mk4. :

-pw


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## dolina (Feb 28, 2016)

pwp said:


> Alejandro said:
> 
> 
> > Since Japanese hate the number 4, i can totally see a 5dp (5d Photo) and a 5dc (5d Cinema).
> ...


It was quickly replaced in less than two years by the 1D X.

1D X was announced in October 2011 and the replacement will start shipping by mid-April 2016.


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## ijohnsson (Feb 28, 2016)

K said:


> Stands to reason that the 5DS will go away next generation like the D800. While I personally like the AA filter, the internet hordes of pixel peepers hate it. These are the folks that will pixel peep all day and admire the detail and resolution, but ignores the destruction of IQ due to moire. A bizarre contradiction. Anyway, not trying to sidetrack the discussion.



The 5Ds DOES have an AA filter, whereas the 5DsR does not. I own the 5DsR and have never ever seen any moire problem. Seems you have the model numbers confused?


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## plam_1980 (Feb 29, 2016)

bdeutsch said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



I also needed some time to get it. Because the rumour says that "there will be a 5D camera that shoots 4K video” but it doesn't mention when or which, his joke is that it will not be the next one but a future one.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 29, 2016)

ijohnsson said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Stands to reason that the 5DS will go away next generation like the D800. While I personally like the AA filter, the internet hordes of pixel peepers hate it. These are the folks that will pixel peep all day and admire the detail and resolution, but ignores the destruction of IQ due to moire. A bizarre contradiction. Anyway, not trying to sidetrack the discussion.
> ...



I don't think the model numbers are confused. ijohnsson expects Canon to drop the model with the LPF (5Ds), like Nikon did when they went from D800E -> D810, dropping the D800 offering.


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## nautal (Feb 29, 2016)

Honestly, I think there are some real improvements that were talked about when 5d3 came out.

Canon needs/should increase the dynamic range. Megapixels are great, 30 does sound like a sweet spot (I'm not doing the math, Just sayin'), however, if I could get the dynamic range it would be amazing. 

Second, Spread the AF points over larger part of the sensor, 61 points is enough. I know there is some real physics based restrictions on the accuracy as you get towards the edges of the frame but come on it would really help push back on the mirrorless crowd. As mirrorless seems to have edge to edge coverage on atleast some cameras. 

Third, clean up A/D converter signal, IE, less noise. The 5d3 is amazing, but this is an evolution so progress. 

Fourth, Have a way to get 4k raw"ish" out of camera and make it difficult ie, cheap implementation, out of the camera. That way entry videographers will have to spend almost as much on accessories to get the raw file as the camera but atleast they will shutup about it. 

Do not: 
put in tilt screen, if you want that go buy a point and shoot, rebel, etc or as most pros using 1d/5d get an external monitor.
I don't want to be going through the jungle or next to a waterfall I don't want a cheap tilt screen that can allow water to get in and have another thing I have to clean under.
Give us 4k at 24fps only in jpeg with S-log.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 29, 2016)

nautal said:


> Megapixels are great, 30 does sound like a sweet spot (I'm not doing the math, Just sayin')



What math would define a resolution sweetspot?



nautal said:


> however, if I could get the dynamic range it would be amazing.



What is the dynamic range you'd be amazed to get?


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## Ozarker (Feb 29, 2016)

pwp said:


> Alejandro said:
> 
> 
> > Since Japanese hate the number 4, i can totally see a 5dp (5d Photo) and a 5dc (5d Cinema).
> ...



And let's forget about all those 4 cylinder engines, The Mazda RX4 (which had a Wankel engine). The Japanese "shi" (4) depends upon the context. The Japanese do not "hate" the number "shi". They hate what it can sound like (the word for death). My Judo instructor always had us count: ichi, ni, san, shi. He was Japanese and had no problem with it.


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## Mr Majestyk (Feb 29, 2016)

Pebbles said:


> This is exactly it. Even if there is a 5D with 4K, it will be the same low quality compressed crap the 1DX has. Perhaps Magic Lantern will eventually give us access to RAW, perhaps not, but on release we will have crappy 4K.



Low quality at 800Mb/s! Sheesh how long have you been testing your 1DXII camera to come to that conclusion.


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## extide (Mar 1, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> And let's forget about all those 4 cylinder engines, The Mazda RX4 (which had a Wankel engine). The Japanese "shi" (4) depends upon the context. The Japanese do not "hate" the number "shi". They hate what it can sound like (the word for death). My Judo instructor always had us count: ichi, ni, san, shi. He was Japanese and had no problem with it.



It was the RX7 and RX8, I don't think there ever was an RX4.


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## nautal (Mar 1, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> nautal said:
> 
> 
> > Megapixels are great, 30 does sound like a sweet spot (I'm not doing the math, Just sayin')
> ...



1. Did you read the quote, "I'm not doing the math"?
But since you are a techy math person that is more interested in numbers that you can crunch and analyze than getting out there and shooting something that will move people, accelerate your career, touch your soul..
6708x4472= 30MP= 5.3666 Pixel Pitch which is close to 4.11 microns Pixel pitch 7d Mark II giving better reach, closer than predicate 5d3, while being able to use all my full frame glass (no crop center of glass) without buying an extra sensor/camera.
Having the advantage of larger Pixels for light gathering, benefits of FF, etc.
Second, 30MP is easy to figure out the minimum count of shots will fill up a particular card/HDD/etc instead of 20.2 or 24.x,50.xMP, etc.
Third, it gives us a rough 1.75:2.0 ratio (UHD) (1.638:2.07 4K), granted it is not the ideal 36MP(UHD), but this is a good comprise for a camera designed for stills with options for light videography. 

2. A true 16+ stops of dynamic range using Canon Log2.

And I would like to add to my list, low light color noise control, we all know that color noise is something canon's have had, particularly red, less on blue but still prominent. Smoothing would go along way in low light situations for the new sensor.


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