# Post processing opinion/advice



## sanj (Nov 28, 2014)

Hi.
Sometimes a photographer takes a pictures and finds it interesting and needs a second opinion on post processing. I am at that stage on this photo.
Am attaching unprocessed and my version. Pls advice. Any pointer is welcome. 
THANK YOU!


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## Coldhands (Nov 28, 2014)

Very nice shot. The only thing I would suggest is a reduction in overall saturation. Just looks a little too intense, at least on my monitor.


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## sanj (Nov 28, 2014)

Thank you Coldhands. I was thinking the same. Am attaching version without ANY chroma or Vibrance enhancement.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 28, 2014)

sanj said:


> Am attaching unprocessed and my version. Pls advice. Any pointer is welcome.



How about sharing the raw, so people can have a go for themselves? Your first attempt looks too much saturated to me, and the sky gradient is already posterized. Second one is improved.

Btw this is exactly the type of shot that could do with a bit more dynamic range, the shadow resolution seems to be very low already.


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## sanj (Nov 28, 2014)

I would be delighted if anyone works on the raw. How to send the RAW across?


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## lo lite (Nov 28, 2014)

sanj said:


> Hi.
> Sometimes a photographer takes a pictures and finds it interesting and needs a second opinion on post processing. I am at that stage on this photo.
> Am attaching unprocessed and my version. Pls advice. Any pointer is welcome.
> THANK YOU!



I noticed something strange with regard to you shots: The color of the unprocessed shot looks completely different when embedded into the forum here compared to what it looks like when I click on it. Have a look at this screenshot:







this might have something to do with the embedded color profile in your image. I guess you should first figure out what this is.

Now my opinion: I like the colors of the first embedded unprocessed shot as they appear much more naturally that the somewhat over saturated looking ones from the image after clicking on it and the processed one. Despite this the lifting of the shadows is also what I would have done, I just would not have added the vignette and left the sky like it is in the first embedded unprocessed shot.


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## rpt (Nov 28, 2014)

sanj said:


> I would be delighted if anyone works on the raw. How to send the RAW across?


Put it into your Dropbox and post the link.


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## sanj (Nov 29, 2014)

Here is the link to RAW. I hope someone takes a shot at it and educates me. Pls. THX

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ht1gw4duupr95g5/_73O8016.CR2?dl=0


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## sanj (Nov 29, 2014)

Lo lite: Thanks so much for your comment. I do not even know how to address what you point out. Where do I start? Pls.


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## TexasBadger (Nov 29, 2014)

Not an easy image to post process. Here is what I came up with.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 29, 2014)

sanj said:


> Here is the link to RAW. I hope someone takes a shot at it and educates me.



Here's my quick attempt, 10 Minutes in Lightroom (timed it), only ACR raw tools. It was worth it just to put a file from $20000k gear on my $500 laptop :->

It's a tough one for several reasons:
[list type=decimal]
[*]gradient in the sky has to be kept (that's what you want ff for, but the leverage is only so high with 14bit resolution before it posterizes and gets ugly)
[*]composition is essentially split-screen, so you cannot help but run into a "hdr look" after raising shadows on the bottom. If there would be some trees or the like connecting both halves, it'd be more pleasant, but of course with wildlife this cannot be helped.
[*]compisiton of the group - one lion was cut off (removed it), one looks outwards and the sun-group relation isn't ideal. Again, of course this cannot be helped, it's not like you can move the animals or sun where you want them.
[/list]

You can postprocess to infinity here, the danger is to make it look overprocessed and worsen things. One area that needs attention is sharpening, contrast/clarity and denoising which need to be tuned to the specific output size and device, I didn't bother with that.


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## Eldar (Nov 29, 2014)

This is the kind of image that requires the 21 stop DR sensor jrista posted the other day


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## 100 (Nov 29, 2014)

It’s a lovely scene, but a difficult image because there is little to none colour contrast between the lions and the grass. 
Not knowing how the light really was when the picture was taken also makes it more difficult to “develop” the raw. 
Here’s my attempt.


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## Zv (Nov 29, 2014)

Just posting so I can keep track of this thread. I've grabbed the RAW file and will give it a bash tomorrow.


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## tayassu (Nov 29, 2014)

Ok, here is what I did:
1. Lens profile and chromatic abberrations (standard)
2. I raised the WB to 5,1K, the grass looked a little too cold-yellow for me.
3. Tint down to -7, the image looked a little too magenta
4. Whites +13 and Blacks -7 to give the image some "pop contrast"
5. Clarity +24 to raise the shadow detail
6. Tone Curve: Highlights -48, Lights +3, Darks +8 and Shadows -14 (I don't think you have to have a properly lit lion in that sort of creative picture, I just like the look of these settings.)
7. Red: Hue +8, Luminance -10
8. Orange: Hue +25, Saturation +8, Luminance +8
9. Yellow: Hue +8
10. Sharpness and NR (42/19)

Has been fun working with this image, hope this helps!


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## Marsu42 (Nov 29, 2014)

Eldar said:


> This is the kind of image that requires the 21 stop DR sensor jrista posted the other day



Not really, ~2-3ev more would be enough as that's the amount that would result in cleaner shadows. More important would be 16bits resolution as you can postprocess gradients w/o posterizing them.

Btw: this Canon 18mp 1d has 10.8ev dr at iso1600; the new Nikon d750 10.6ev, the high-res Nikon d810 only 9.8ev. Point for Canon, esp. as you can take the same picture with a cheap 20mp 6d (10.7ev) though the 22mp 5d3 would be a bit worse (10.1ev). 

But the most important point that there is no banding in this 1d shot, 6d would be the same, again 5d3 probably wouldn't.



tayassu said:


> Ok, here is what I did



Oh my, that's what about I did - probably there aren't that many ways to postprocess this one. Wb is subjective though as we don't know how the real scene was. The only one I added is a radial filter around the sun to keep the gradient and a vignette around the lions (next to removing the right one).

How much you raise/constast the silhouettes is really difficult and a matter of taste as much as the output device- unfortunately there isn't enough rim light from the sun (which is still too high for that) for a high-contrast approach.


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## sanj (Nov 29, 2014)

Thank you everyone for your efforts. REALLY appreciate. Am seeing so many different 'minds'.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 29, 2014)

sanj said:


> Thank you everyone for your efforts. REALLY appreciate. Am seeing so many different 'minds'.



I really like to compare development approaches, I wish there would be a "develop that!" raw file of the week, people would have a go and share their .xmp sidecar so everybody could see what's been done.

Maybe we should set up such a thread in the postprocessing section?


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## sanj (Nov 29, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you everyone for your efforts. REALLY appreciate. Am seeing so many different 'minds'.
> ...



Lets do it! You start it, I will actively participate…!!


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## tayassu (Nov 29, 2014)

sanj said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > sanj said:
> ...



That is a great idea!


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## aprotosimaki (Nov 29, 2014)

tayassu said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



100% agree. It would be really useful on many levels. Totally support it!


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## dak723 (Nov 29, 2014)

I didn't use the RAW - just processed the original JPG. To my eye, the photo's main subject is not the sunset, but the lions. Therefore the lions need to be clearly visible. Again, just my opinion. So all I did was lighten the darks and desaturate the colors a bit.


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## triggermike (Nov 29, 2014)

I feel the lions do not need to be "clearly" visible. These are silhouetted animals which are easily identifiable as-is. Your original process was great except maybe the sun/sky being posterized as mentioned earlier.

Anyway, here's my go at it . . .


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## Dylan777 (Nov 29, 2014)

sanj said:


> Thank you Coldhands. I was thinking the same. Am attaching version without ANY chroma or Vibrance enhancement.



Beautiful photo sanj, regardless how you going to PP it


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 29, 2014)

dak723 said:


> I didn't use the RAW - just processed the original JPG. To my eye, the photo's main subject is not the sunset, but the lions. Therefore the lions need to be clearly visible. Again, just my opinion. So all I did was lighten the darks and desaturate the colors a bit.



The image above *might* benefit from an increase in the black level or contrast level. But I haven't played with it myself so I won't comment further.

I can see this image both ways. In fact, I would probably create two versions - one like *dak723* where the lions are easy to view and another that showcases the sunset more with the lions darker or in silhouette. (If that's possible.)

I think (and I'm only guessing here because I'm no expert) that the sunset would have come out better if a graduated ND had been used at the time. This would have helped balance the sun and avoid blowing out the highlights quite so much while allowing the lions to expose better. In other words, it would have given more DR to work with in post.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 29, 2014)

aprotosimaki said:


> tayassu said:
> 
> 
> > sanj said:
> ...



VERY good idea! Count me in as a supporter!!


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## candc (Nov 29, 2014)

here is my go at it with some motion blur on the sky to smear the sun a bit


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## Birding (Nov 29, 2014)

Here is my interpretation
All done in ACR via Bridge
I went for a vertical crop to keep focus on the points on interest

Mike


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## Harold (Nov 29, 2014)

Here is my try at post processing this image. I used Lightrooms graduated filter to lighten the bottom half of the photo.


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## candc (Nov 29, 2014)

Birding said:


> Here is my interpretation
> All done in ACR via Bridge
> I went for a vertical crop to keep focus on the points on interest
> 
> Mike



i like the crop, good job


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## Virindi77 (Nov 29, 2014)

Cool photo.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 29, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Beautiful photo sanj, regardless how you going to PP it



Couldn't help not participating in this beautiful photo. Although I'm not at the location, based the on raw, I'm seeing this...






Larger View: http://dylannguyen.smugmug.com/Wildlife/Ant-Eater/i-NTzSNZM/A

But then again, I can be death wrong ;D


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## nineyards (Nov 29, 2014)

Fun project you've given us
Tough call on that one
You want to accentuate the lions whilst retaining the visage of impending darkness, you don't want to take away from the spectacular sunset, but by the same token you don't want it to overpower the lions
The feeling is there even if you left it alone with no pp
Great capture

My attempt at a happy medium


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## sonofanative (Nov 29, 2014)

Very Nice Photo, 
I took the challenge and did my normal , First Into Lightroom,camera, lens and white balance corrected. Then to Photoshop , first I use a software I recommend and am an affiliate for Piccure+ does amazing small detail to the image as you were using a 5k prime and even then does small detail and cleanup. Next I use Luminosity Adjustment layers and used the dark and
dark dark layers to selectively bring out the Lions in the shadows desaturated a little , Just a nice capture tweaked shot in harse lighting 
walphotography


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## MichaelHodges (Nov 29, 2014)

The color in the original image is perfect. The added orange in the following images is gaudy and unnatural.

Just lift the shadows on the lions. By the way, this is where the Nikon sensors are far superior.


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## gwooding (Nov 29, 2014)

Hi all, nice photo Sanj.

Just thought I would give this a go as well. This was processed with Capture One Pro 8.


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## candc (Nov 30, 2014)

there have been some comments about the colors being over orangish and such. i opened it up in dpp (no alteration, just convert to jpeg) i think the colors look better than acr/photoshop or lightroom it wont open in dxo (camera not supported)

p.s. this is kind of fun, there should be a timer. Everybody gets the same raw file and has 30 minutes to work with it, sort of an "iron chef" with pictures.


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## dak723 (Nov 30, 2014)

I apologize for posting a 2nd version. My first was the unprocessed JPG. The RAW file linked is a slightly different picture, so I used that this time. I liked the cropped version shown earlier, but thought the Lion looking at the viewer was important. Again, just lightened the foreground, and lowered saturation.


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## Khristo (Nov 30, 2014)

Might as well join the club...


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## Zv (Nov 30, 2014)

OK I had a go. I used ACR to do some initial processing then converted to DNG and then imported into Lr 4. (I couldn't open with Lr 4). Anyway ...

Took about 20 mins tops.


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## sanj (Nov 30, 2014)

Thank you everyone for the effort. I am going away to a hotel for 4 days without any internet to do some writing and when back will reconnect and thank you all individually and, if I may, give my take on each of the posts.


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## MonkeyB (Nov 30, 2014)

narrowed down to 2 looks. nice shot, thanks for letting us play around.


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## sunnyVan (Nov 30, 2014)

_73O8016 by Yeung Wen Photography, on Flickr



_73O8016-2 by Yeung Wen Photography, on Flickr

My take. There are two things I found difficult to fix. The sun was quite blown out in my opinion, and there was some flare on the foreground. These are the two versions I'd use if these were my pictures, (although in this lifetime I can never afford such gear.) 

I think if the emphasis is the lions, then it's not necessary to show the whole sun. I'd show just part of it to cue the time of the day. The eyes will be less drawn to the sun and will instead go to the lions. 

If the emphasis is the sun itself, then there is not enough form to do silhouette. 

I wish one day I could travel to this place. I'm jealous. =)


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## monkey44 (Nov 30, 2014)

Just read thru this thread --- and believe the crop sun is BY FAR the best idea. The sun is blown out just by the nature of the shot, because the lions are a HUGE part of the capture. And the full sun - no matter what you do with it - always pulls the eye. 

I'd leave a little bit more sun in it, about half, or just a bit more, so the upper circle just barely begins (60% maybe) because with just the low edge of the sun, it looks like an accident ... but the sun crop cut really, truly makes this a piece of art. It allows the lions as the focal point, rather than an afterthought.

I'm not posting "my version" because it take me too much time, as I'm more a film guy than digital and have not the skills to really do it justice at the moment.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 30, 2014)

monkey44 said:


> Just read thru this thread --- and believe the crop sun is BY FAR the best idea. The sun is blown out just by the nature of the shot, because the lions are a HUGE part of the capture. And the full sun - no matter what you do with it - always pulls the eye.



Not necessarily - with these kind of nature shots, it depends on the output size (and distance viewer - picture). 

Imho on a larger scale print, you want the whole scene with a healthy border around it to give an impression of the mood. After getting an overall impression, like in reality the viewer should then center on the subjects.
With web size like we view just now, you heavier cropping is in order to leave enough area for the actual subjects. And since we're sitting inches away from the scene, you need to direct the viewer's eye since he/she isn't as free to look where he/she wants to.

Combined with depth of field (large print = large, small print = small) you essentially need to shoot, postprocess and crop for one specific purpose and output device. Unfortunately, one doesn't fit all :-\

Btw I made the grave error too crop too tightly just looking at my tiny camera lcd screen - I've learned from that mistake since then and tend to "shoot loose".


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## Rob-downunder (Dec 1, 2014)

I am certainly no expert, but the sun is blown, the sky is posterized, there is virtually no colour in the lions and grass, and there is no point having a photo of lions without being able to see them. So I have got rid of the colour problems by going B&W. Unfortunately the sky is still a long way from being acceptable, and I think the only way to get a reasonable sky would be to cut one in from another photo that had similar colours, but wasn't posterized.

I haven't processed it to the nth degree, but thought it might be another perspective.

To the OP - how about nominating your favourite processed image.


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## Jat Riski (Dec 1, 2014)

Hope you guys like my edit.


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## Milosz (Dec 1, 2014)

Hello,

My try with your photo. I worked only with colors (didnt do cropping, sharpening, removing dust). I opened your raw twice - first procesed in ACR for sky and second for ground and lions, then tweak both layers. If you'd like I can send you somehow my PS file but it is 276 MB.

Best regards


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## Synkka (Dec 1, 2014)

Had a play its a tough shot shooting into the sun like that. Color photo is a bit of a HDR job based on the one frame, I always feel with nature its best to try to stay neutral. I have tried to tone down the sun a touch and gently lift the exposure around the lions.

However i agree with the Rob i think that sun is a distraction to the image. The black and white looks much better, highpass and slight sepia tone. I always feel that i can get away with much more noise in a black and white photo and it still looks correct.

Anyway my take (great thread by the way), and I should mention to anyone in the thread if you don't use something to color check your editing monitor a photo like this really shows when you try to print.


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## zim (Dec 1, 2014)

Synkka said:


> However i agree with the Rob i think that sun is a distraction to the image. The black and white looks much better, highpass and slight sepia tone. I always feel that i can get away with much more noise in a black and white photo and it still looks correct.



+1 on that. That's how I was going to go but discovered my version of Dx0 Pro doesn't allow me to process from that camera 

PS do love the idea of this being a monthly thing!


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## dgatwood (Dec 6, 2014)

I took a somewhat different approach. It involves:


Angle: -0.34 to straighten the horizon a bit
Corrected a bad dust spot in the upper right corner
3 graduated filters to pull the sun under control
3 more graduated filters combined to cool the picture off in a carefully controlled way
Exposure -0.3
Contrast +20
Highlights -37
Shadows +70
Whites -28
Blacks -14
Clarity +4
Vibrance +49
Saturation 0
Split toning Hue: 40, Saturation: 2 (to undo a little of the graduated filter changes in the shadows
Sharpening: default values (Amount: 25, Radius: 1.0, Detail: 25, Masking: 0)
Luminance Noise Reduction: Luminance: 59, Detail: 57, Contrast: 0
Color Noise Reduction: Color: 48, Detail: 50
Manual lens vignetting correction: Amount +22, Midpoint 50
Camera calibration: Shadow Tint: +10, Blue primary saturation: +61







Edit: Replaced JPEG with PNG file, because the JPEG showed too much posterization. I previously tried a TIFF file, but it was just too big.

Also added a note about the dust spot removal, which I forgot to mention previously.


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## Click (Dec 6, 2014)

^^^ Ha Ha Ha ;D I love the special character that you added to it.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 6, 2014)

dgatwood said:


> I took a somewhat different approach.



Oh my, how long did that take you?

In favor of your edit, it's the first one that made me recognize the right lion actually has a gps data collar around its neck, so it's not a very wild kind of wildlife after all 



dgatwood said:


> Edit: Replaced JPEG with PNG file, because the JPEG showed too much posterization. I previously tried a TIFF file, but it was just too big.



Truecolor png, 16mb, directly linked w/o preview: the total iq hardcore award is yours :-> ... and we wonder why CR asks users to refrain from long image threads because of the loading time . But you should your jpeg settings, I test-saved it and the gradient is just fine.


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## dgatwood (Dec 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> dgatwood said:
> 
> 
> > I took a somewhat different approach.
> ...



Not sure. I worked on it for a few minutes, then I went away for a while, then I went back to it. The photoshop work was pretty quick, but adjusting it after I further refined the Lightroom settings a couple of times took longer than I'd have liked.


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## sanj (Dec 7, 2014)

Wow guys! A BIG thank you to all of you. Each post made my mind go 'ting' and saw the photo differently. Thank you for the participation. I am here for you if you want me to work on any of your photo. 

Btw this is as wild as it gets - it is bang in the middle of Tanzania. A scientist was studying this pride of lion.


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## sanj (Dec 7, 2014)

Rob-downunder said:


> I am certainly no expert, but the sun is blown, the sky is posterized, there is virtually no colour in the lions and grass, and there is no point having a photo of lions without being able to see them. So I have got rid of the colour problems by going B&W. Unfortunately the sky is still a long way from being acceptable, and I think the only way to get a reasonable sky would be to cut one in from another photo that had similar colours, but wasn't posterized.
> 
> I haven't processed it to the nth degree, but thought it might be another perspective.
> 
> To the OP - how about nominating your favourite processed image.



I am not qualified enough to even dare to do that. I intended to discuss each post individually but even that I am unable to do. Do not feel I know enough. I just learnt a lot from each post. 

Thank you so much Rob.


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## krisbell (Dec 10, 2014)

I went a little differently and removed the lion on the far right and added some more negative space on the right to balance the image a little better. I actually preferred the RAW to all PP attempts so tried to keep processing elsewhere to a bare minimum (its difficult to resist!).


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## runningiguana (Dec 10, 2014)

In lightroom, I lifted out the shadows on the full image, then added several gradients to decrease contrast and exposure in the sky and increase it on the lions, along with a touch of color corrections along the lines of the gradients. Then added a motion blur to the sky to tame down the sun and cropped the collared lion out.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 10, 2014)

runningiguana said:


> In lightroom, I lifted out the shadows on the full image



Woah! Fallout warning  and welcome to the form!


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## Dredd67 (Dec 10, 2014)

Sounds fun, so much I created an account just to post this... hopefully the embedded profile won't ruin the colors (try to view it with a proper IP software...)


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## runningiguana (Dec 10, 2014)

Coming back to the computer after a break, my first attempt looks way saturated (even though I've actually reduced the saturation of the original). Reducing it more just makes everything look really pink, so I've added a bluish grey layer on top in "color" mode, saved and back in lightroom reduced the magenta tint (although not having been there, I wouldn't know, maybe it was very pink).
Hopefully they are less "nuclear" now. :-[


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## freeomega (Dec 12, 2014)

Beautiful photo. Just too bad the sun is blown out... 

Here is my take at it, done in 10 minutes. Non-destructive changes and all done in ACR.

Comments are welcomed.


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## Gino (Dec 12, 2014)

.


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## sanj (Dec 13, 2014)

Wow EVERYONE.

Thank you thank you.


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