# Canon EOS-b Images Leak & a New Kit Lens



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 19, 2013)

```
<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=13131"></g:plusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=13131">Tweet</a></div>
<strong>Canon EOS-b / X7</strong>

Images of Canon’s super small DSLR have leaked out. Also new for this release is an STM version of the EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS kit lens. The camera looks to be around $799 in the USA.</p>
<p><strong>Specifications (Direct Translation)</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>18 million pixel sensor DIGIC5</li>
<li>1.04 million dot 3-inch LCD monitor</li>
<li>4 seconds of continuous shooting frames / video</li>
<li>Full HD</li>
<li>30-1/4000 seconds shutter speed</li>
<li>synchronous second 1/200</li>
<li>ISO range is 100-25600</li>
<li>AF sensor 9-point, the central cross</li>
<li>Special scenes can switch the shooting mode six set blur background – effects shots</li>
<li>hybrid CMOS AF II was a wider area</li>
<li>Media SD / SDHC / SDXC</li>
<li>Battery LP-E12</li>
<li>(body only) 370g, weighs 407g (battery, memory card included)</li>
<li>Late May 4, (on-sale date) is the expected price of ¥ 79 000 over-the-counter sale of Kiss X7</li>
<li>EF -S 18-55mm lens kit is available with the IS STM, the double zoom kit.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://digicame-info.com/2013/03/eos-kiss-x7.html" target="_blank">DCI</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
```


----------



## pj1974 (Mar 19, 2013)

Wow, cool - specs! Interesting times ahead. 8)


----------



## LukieLauXD (Mar 19, 2013)

Can this be considered as the t4i replacement?


----------



## Ricku (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh my! The fabled 18mp APS-C sensor!

Finally.


----------



## baervan (Mar 19, 2013)

By the way the fact that this camera (that none is expecting and none asked for) is coming out before both 70D and 7DII is a clear sign of how unimportant for Canon is the entire Gearhead/Pro-amateur/Semipro/Pro market.. T_T


----------



## Dylan777 (Mar 19, 2013)

Will not be on my purchase list :-\


----------



## RC (Mar 19, 2013)

Where's all the good stuff? 35L II, updated 50s, 4xxEX-RT


----------



## procentje20 (Mar 19, 2013)

My eye is drawn to that lens. The 18-55mm IS II is my favourite lens. Its also the only non L lens I own. But I keep using it because its so light, and quick and sharp enough in most situations. The version II was a little bit better then the version I preceding it. This STM version could be a leap forward is responsiveness.


----------



## Ricku (Mar 19, 2013)

baervan said:


> By the way the fact that this camera (that none is expecting and none asked for) is coming out before both 70D and 7DII is a clear sign of how unimportant for Canon is the entire Gearhead/Pro-amateur/Semipro/Pro market.. T_T


+1

And don't forget how they "stunned" us all with the EOS M, instead of giving us something to compete with Fuji's and Olympus's mirrorless systems. ;D


----------



## CanNotYet (Mar 19, 2013)

LukieLauXD said:


> Can this be considered as the t4i replacement?


I don't think so. Canon is trying to do the shuffle replacement dance here once again. They release something that does not really replace anything, but rather slot in between existing models, so customers get more choices and they saturate the market.

But, as a customer not previously an owner of a 18mp Canon DSLR, this is a good alternative. I would choose it over 650D because of smaller size and fixed screen. Digic 5 should give really nice Jpegs straight out of cam, even at higher ISO. (as most of the buyers of this camera will only use it for Jpeg)


----------



## carlosmeldano (Mar 19, 2013)

does anyone have an idea why Canon released such a camera? who is this small DSLR for?

tiny shiny overpriced toy...


----------



## Canon-F1 (Mar 19, 2013)

wow can´t wait to test that sensor.....

and all the other features... just wow!!

/sarcasm off...


----------



## JoeDavid (Mar 19, 2013)

I am intrigued by the "ISO range is 100-25600" spec. If that is not an expanded range, it would probably be a new sensor. The 60D lists its 18MP sensor range to 6400 (12,800 expanded) and uses a Digic 4. If the 25600 is expanded, then it could be the same sensor just with better noise reduction applied via Digic 5...


----------



## MathieuB (Mar 19, 2013)

baervan said:


> By the way the fact that this camera (that none is expecting and none asked for) is coming out before both 70D and 7DII is a clear sign of how unimportant for Canon is the entire Gearhead/Pro-amateur/Semipro/Pro market.. T_T



Well, keep in mind that lower-end cameras sell a lot more than higher-end cameras and that if you intend to get people to move up to higher-end cameras, it's a lot easier to convince them if they already have one of your cameras (brand loyalty).

My guess?
Canon saw that there clearly was a market for smaller cameras with interchangeable lenses (e.g. Four Thirds, Nikon 1, Fujifilm XPro-1, etc.) and obviously know that their large selections of lenses is one of the main reasons people choose Canon over other brands.

So with that in mind, they released the Canon 6D, their smallest full-frame DSLR to date and now this EOS-b (odd name..) looks like their smallest crop DSLR. 

While many of us may want a 70D or 7DII, remember that Canon isn't there to only take care of OUR needs, no it is in the business of making money, they sensed a market (and I'd agree with them) and now they are addressing it.

I have no doubt that there is a market for a smaller DSLR, I mean many of us like the idea of a smaller camera to bring around everyday when we don't want to lung around the "big" camera with the "big" lenses. Now imagine the mainstream buyer 



JoeDavid said:


> I am intrigued by the "ISO range is 100-25600" spec. If that is not an expanded range, it would probably be a new sensor. The 60D lists its 18MP sensor range to 6400 (12,800) expanded and uses a Digic 4. If the 25600 is expanded, then it could be the same sensor just with better noise reduction applied via Digic 5...


I'm guessing it's due to the Digic 5, which allows for better noise reduction thanks to its higher processing power.


----------



## carlosmeldano (Mar 19, 2013)

JoeDavid said:


> I am intrigued by the "ISO range is 100-25600" spec. If that is not an expanded range, it would probably be a new sensor. The 60D lists its 18MP sensor range to 6400 (12,800 expanded) and uses a Digic 4. If the 25600 is expanded, then it could be the same sensor just with better noise reduction applied via Digic 5...



look, it's simple.

they got the same old 18MP sensor from 2009 and put some AF points on it, put this together with the DIGIC5 and they created 650D. then, they created EOS-M, this is the same as 650D. then, as too much sensors were produced and 650D is outdated and EOS-M didn't work fine, they created just another body for the same old sensor, this EOS-B. hopefully they will get rid of the stock of this sensor.

they are delaying the new ASP-C sensor (70D, 7D2, then 700D) because they want to sell as much from this ancient sensor as they can.


----------



## tnargs (Mar 19, 2013)

The weight is in the panasonic G3 class - amazing. And the lens mount looks h-u-g-e!


----------



## CanNotYet (Mar 19, 2013)

The one thing I do NOT like about it is that the "grippy material" looks like 1000D/1100D, which turns into a soap bar if your hands are sweaty/wet...hopefully it is better, but I would not bet on it.


----------



## jthomson (Mar 19, 2013)

carlosmeldano said:


> does anyone have an idea why Canon released such a camera? who is this small DSLR for?
> 
> tiny shiny overpriced toy...



obviously its for the "OOOH! SHINY" crowd.


----------



## Sella174 (Mar 19, 2013)

If Canon would just drop the built-in flash and provide a "Kelvin" white balance setting, I'll sure be considering this camera as a viable replacement for my brace of 30D's.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Mar 19, 2013)

dilbert said:


> And the resulting wonderment of Canon executives as to why the EOS M hasn't been at least a good seller.



http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10654.0

you have other infos?


----------



## hmmm (Mar 19, 2013)

Pretty good value for the money, I'd say.

As small as it is, what this camera needs is a 20mm 2.8 ef-s pancake as a companion lens.


----------



## RC (Mar 19, 2013)

dilbert said:


> "EOS-b"????
> 
> What customer is going to buy a "b" camera?
> i.e. how many will ask "So where is the EOS-a?" and want to buy that?


Funny, that was my very FIRST impression when I read the announcement this morning. What happened to the "a" model.


----------



## McTography (Mar 19, 2013)

When I bought my first DSLR, a T3i, I was so concerned with the weight and size. I thought the smaller it was the more opportunities I would have to carry it and use it. 

I found out quickly that once you go to a certain size, a size that can no longer fit into your pocket or purse, the size is not that important. So now I just wish I had a 7D because there isn't anywhere I could take my Rebel that I wouldn't be able to take a 7D.

BUT, like a child (and we are all guilty) you can tell a first time DSLR purchaser anything you want, they are still going to buy what makes them feel comfortable, such as size and high megapixels. I would have been so excited for this camera 2 years ago, so I believe there is definitely a market for it, without question.


----------



## Sella174 (Mar 19, 2013)

RC said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > "EOS-b"????
> ...



Erm ... EOS 1D *X*.


----------



## Ricku (Mar 19, 2013)

Canon-F1 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > And the resulting wonderment of Canon executives as to why the EOS M hasn't been at least a good seller.
> ...


The EOS M is indeed a failure, both technically and in sales. The latter has even been confirmed by Masaya Maeda - managing director at Canon.

Japan is the only country where the EOS M is selling "well".


----------



## CanNotYet (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't get why they do not re-use "N" or "V" model names? (N for Nano) "B" sounds "second-grade".


----------



## baervan (Mar 19, 2013)

I'm sure there is a market for anything, if it's electronic, costs a lot of money and it serves practically no purpose people will buy it, it's the entire premise of smartphones.

Personally, I'm interested in either great DSLRs or great compact cameras, stuff that you can put in your pocket unlike things like the Fuji's. My taste is not the one of the million buyers of entry level DSLRs so I'm pretty underwhelmed by a dwarf DSLR that could go with a massive 70-200 2.8II. If they wanted to lure more peeps in my opinion they shouldve remove the overall ugly dwarf DSLR look and make it smoother and less bumpy.

But anyway, long live market and revenues!


----------



## RS2021 (Mar 19, 2013)

So...like we had 1D and 1Ds.....I guess the higher megapixel, full-stupid version of EOS-b will be named ...EOS-bs?


----------



## J.R. (Mar 19, 2013)

So this is the announcement everyone has been waiting for? After much wait for the 7/70D and lens upgrades, this is what we get ... EOS-b(ull) from Canon! Shame


----------



## tomscott (Mar 19, 2013)

I dont really agree with the comments above.

I use my cameras professionally and love my lenses. I really like the mirrorless market too and bought a twin lens kit NEX 5N because it was cheap and the IQ is much better than the 18mp sensor from Canon. But the DSLR is a dream to use in comparison, although its good and small I find the AF jumps around and focuses on things I don't want it to and I miss the shot. I also like a proper viewfinder not the new EVFs.

I like the DSLR form factor and have all the lenses to boot this is a good compromise for people like me who want something small when you don't want to carry the big gun cameras or want to be less conspicuous.

Although I hate that sensor it is a dog! Reason why I was so disappointed with my 7D and sold it.

It would seem Canon is hanging on for an unhealthy amount of time with this tech. Even if it is Digic 5 what exactly is the difference? It processes more data? Yet the 650D has been said to be less sharp than the 600D.

But I like the idea of this small DSLR. I really dont like EVFs. This could be a good compromise. Shame they didnt put any new tech in it.


----------



## preppyak (Mar 19, 2013)

Canon-F1 said:


> you have other infos?


Yeah, the 4th post in that thread that mentions the original post is completely wrong, and not actually for a range longer than the 3 weeks shortly after the EOS-M launch. It stands to reason that just about any camera would do well in sales in its first month out


----------



## trulandphoto (Mar 19, 2013)

hmmm said:


> Pretty good value for the money, I'd say.
> 
> As small as it is, what this camera needs is a 20mm 2.8 ef-s pancake as a companion lens.



+1. I almost ordered an EOS-M from BB at $549 yesterday. If this camera in live view operates like the EOS-M and has the option of faster operation with the mirror down it might be a winner. But I agree it needs a small fast prime. a 20 or 22mm pancake would be perfect.


----------



## weixing (Mar 19, 2013)

Hi,
EOS-b (baby??)... May be Canon want to test the market... which one can sell more.... a mirrorless camera or a DSLR as small as a mirrorless camera. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## jebrady03 (Mar 19, 2013)

dilbert said:


> "EOS-b"????
> 
> What customer is going to buy a "b" camera?
> i.e. how many will ask "So where is the EOS-a?" and want to buy that?



They had to go with "b" because "a" was already taken by Sony.


----------



## NormanBates (Mar 19, 2013)

Now, the Nikon D3200 is 9.35 oz (265 g) and $600 with the lens.
Everybody's guess is that this is the same old Canon sensor, in a 370-407g camera that sells for $800.
What is Canon trying to do here? I don't get it.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 19, 2013)

I think it could be a fine introductory DSLR and the size may entice a number of more experienced shooters who need/want a smaller form factor. I bet it sells like hotcakes.


----------



## silversurfer96 (Mar 19, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> I think it could be a fine introductory DSLR and the size may entice a number of more experienced shooters who need/want a smaller form factor. I bet it sells like hotcakes.



+1... While having the big gun is great... at extended times, the little brother may suffice nicely.


----------



## MrFotoFool (Mar 19, 2013)

I am actually intrigued by this - paired with a pancake lens for a high quality point and shoot. I almost bought a Pentax KX with pancake a while back for this very reason (in white - why can't they make the eos-b in white?).

I also agree with poster who says 20mm pancake would be ideal. There is always the Voigtlander, if we can live with manual focus.

They would not use "a" as the designation because that is for the astrophotography models (eg eos 60Da).

And I agree wholeheartedly with the above poster who says EVF viewfinders are lame - I need real viewfinder.


----------



## EchoLocation (Mar 19, 2013)

RC said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > "EOS-b"????
> ...


seriously,
who named this camera? EOS-B? are they aiming at being the next edsel? this is one of the worst, most confusing names for a product i've heard in a really long time, calling something "B" is a really poor choice the US.
the only way this makes is if there's an EOS-A coming to the market soon that is better.


----------



## dadgummit (Mar 19, 2013)

I Don't Know.....

I like the size of the 5D, 7D and all of the x0D's (Except the super-rebel 60d). I can see the value of having a system that is easilly transportable like an EOS M if it could focus faster than continental drift. This one is in the akward middle. Too big to be as packable as a small system and too small to be handled like a big camera.


----------



## Drizzt321 (Mar 19, 2013)

> hybrid CMOS AF II was a wider area



I think this is the chip that's going to be going into the EOS-M v2 as well, provided it improves the AF performance significantly. I think this is basically an EOS-M size, but adding the mirror box and phase-detect AF and keeping it as small as possible.


----------



## KyleSTL (Mar 19, 2013)

tnargs said:


> The weight is in the panasonic G3 class - amazing. And the lens mount looks h-u-g-e!



Yeah, here's a comparison to the other smallest Rebels of the past (XTi and XS), sorry I was too lazy to resize the pictures:

*'EOS-b'*






*XTi*





*XS*





Just look at the height of the grip, the EOS-b has a grip the same height as the lens mount, the XTi and XS and visually a little taller than the mount.

Or compare it to the largest Rebel yet (T4i, 650D):

*'EOS-b'*





*T4i/650D*





EDIT: On the opposite side of the spectrum, here it is in comparison to the EOS M and EF adapter:

*'EOS-b'*





*EOS M with EF adapter*


----------



## ddashti (Mar 19, 2013)

EOS-b??? Well, this was quite unexpected. Canon did well with hiding this until it got leaked!


----------



## trulandphoto (Mar 19, 2013)

KyleSTL said:


> tnargs said:
> 
> 
> > The weight is in the panasonic G3 class - amazing. And the lens mount looks h-u-g-e!
> ...



Looks pretty much like an EOS-M with a prism housing - size wise.


----------



## psolberg (Mar 19, 2013)

yet another disappointment from canon. old sensor, order specs, outrageous price. why can't they just accept the future of the sub 1000 camera body is mirror-less. enough with this surplus parts revel crap.


----------



## trulandphoto (Mar 19, 2013)

psolberg said:


> yet another disappointment from canon. old sensor, order specs, outrageous price. why can't they just accept the future of the sub 1000 camera body is mirror-less. enough with this surplus parts revel crap.



Because it's not solely. Sure, if you don't want to shoot anything that moves. This body might bring all the features of the EOS-M plus phase detect AF when desired with a modest increase in size. I'm going to take a good look at it and I've never considered getting a rebel before.


----------



## TrumpetPower! (Mar 19, 2013)

Count me amongst those confused by all the hate.

Sure, it's the same old sensor. But it's an SLR body that's probably as small as is physically possible with an EF-S mount. How is that not cool?

I'm sure this will support all the same WiFi stuff as all the other latest models, meaning that this has the potential to be mounted in some really obscure locations and then easily wirelessly controlled, resulting in some really interesting shots. And all those who've chosen APS-C over 135 because of size and weight concerns? This thing is as good as that part of the equation will ever get.

Really, sometimes I think the only thing that'll satisfy the peanut gallery 'round here is if the camera gets delivered by an invisible flying pink unicorn pony -- and one that grants sexual favors, to boot....

b&


----------



## schmidtfilme (Mar 19, 2013)

For me the idea of a small and lightweight DSLR seems quite attractive. I have used and worked with Sonys NEX-5 and have to say that I really prefer to look through the lens and not on a screen to compose pictures. That is why I am not really interested in the Canon EOS M either. 

What is a little disappointing here is at first the sensor which seems to be the same as in the 60D, 600D, 550D and now used for quite some time and also the price point seems to be a little high. Well, the street price can be quite different but I would somehow expect it to be lower then 550D if this is the entry model. After all they called it "B"? Strange naming for sure. 

Cheers
Andreas


----------



## RS2021 (Mar 19, 2013)

TrumpetPower! said:


> Really, sometimes I think the only thing that'll satisfy the peanut gallery 'round here is if the camera gets delivered by an invisible flying pink unicorn pony -- and one that grants sexual favors, to boot....
> 
> b&



Yes, please!!!


----------



## NormanBates (Mar 19, 2013)

edit: deleted, I got the D3200 weight wrong, this is actually about 15% lighter than a D3200


----------



## TrumpetPower! (Mar 19, 2013)

NormanBates said:


> edit: deleted, I got the D3200 weight wrong, this is actually about 15% lighter than a D3200



It's also significantly smaller than the D3200. The D3200 is basically the same size as the T3; the EOS-b is a lot smaller.

Cheers,

b&


----------



## dkyeah (Mar 19, 2013)

So the 6D has a sync speed of 1/180th while this toy camera could go up to 1/200th? If that's true I really don't get what Canon is doing with the specs of their semi-pro/pro cameras…
100-25'600ISO range, 1/4000th max shutter speed, 9 AF point with 1 cross type, SD slot only… actually, is it a 6D in a smaller body at half (or third) of the price because of the APS-C sensor? hahaha I hope not… but seriously, Canon should push out some new lenses (35 1.4 to compete with the new Sigma, 50 1.2 and 1.4, eventually start selling the 200-400…) and flashes (where's the 4xxEX with RT?).
I know Canon sells probably more entry level cameras than pro or semi pro, but seriously… EOS M, EOS1xxxD, EOS 6xxD, EOSxxD and now that? Too much to choose from and people will most likely be lost more than happy :-\


----------



## Wildfire (Mar 19, 2013)

dkyeah said:


> So the 6D has a sync speed of 1/180th while this toy camera could go up to 1/200th? If that's true I really don't get what Canon is doing with the specs of their semi-pro/pro cameras…



The crop cameras have a much smaller sensor so the shutter curtain doesn't have to travel as far. That's why it's easier to make crop cameras with a fast sync speed compared to a full frame.

By the way I have a 6D which I use with off-camera manual flash at 1/200s and it syncs correctly at least 80% of the time.


----------



## trulandphoto (Mar 19, 2013)

TrumpetPower! said:


> NormanBates said:
> 
> 
> > edit: deleted, I got the D3200 weight wrong, this is actually about 15% lighter than a D3200
> ...



I just had a thought. Maybe it's not a "b" at all maybe it's the musical flat symbol. So the new body is a half step lower than an EOS.


----------



## mdmphoto (Mar 19, 2013)

MathieuB said:


> Well, keep in mind that lower-end cameras sell a lot more than higher-end cameras and that if you intend to get people to move up to higher-end cameras, it's a lot easier to convince them if they already have one of your cameras (brand loyalty).



This actually makes the most sense to me when I consider other canon customers and the whole business end of things in general. I started with the original rebel, moved to XTi, 40D, 50D, 7D, and am awaiting my 6D evaluation loaner to help me decide - and convince the wife - to buy my first FF, while still looking forward to the 7DII! Everyone starts somewhere and builds from there - or not. I know many people that are quite happy with camera models, and brands(!) that do not meet my own wants/needs, and a quite many of them have lesser specs and price tags than those I favor. Doesn't seem to bother them, they are happy and produce, yes, some beautiful work with these instruments. The thing is, when I see new models appear I always anticipate that much of the nifty new features will find their way to my hoped-for models when they finally debut; a la wifi and gps in the 7DII's rumored specs. In the meantime I have more time to work with my 7 - & 50D models, or quite possibly sell the 50D and buy the 6D in the interim while pining for the 7DII. Choices for everyone. New Beginnings as well...


----------



## firebreatherboy (Mar 19, 2013)

maybe they left the "A" because the use of that letter in photographic equipments is trademarked by Sony. So, they chose the next letter b.

Anyway, this thing is small. But, like someone said here, it's not small enough to be pocketed, nor is big enough to be held well. But, this thing is clearly aimed to the first time dslr buyers. And i'm sure, most would fall for the size when compared to other things.


----------



## ssrdd (Mar 19, 2013)

Fan are the first to get this camera. I hope canon will cover loses from tsunami with this new inventory 18mp sensor. Great news for canon users..


----------



## Ivar (Mar 19, 2013)

MathieuB said:


> Well, keep in mind that lower-end cameras sell a lot more than higher-end cameras and that if you intend to get people to move up to higher-end cameras, it's a lot easier to convince them if they already have one of your cameras (brand loyalty).



I think the trend has reversed what concerns DSLRs - the movement goes from big to small these days. 
High end cameras tend to be tough solid workhorses, but they lack features attractive to average consumer. 
Also, due to shorter lifecycle, one might find newer technology in smaller cameras and surpassing IQ in some areas. 

Pessimistic, yes, but also realistic I'd say.


----------



## mdmphoto (Mar 19, 2013)

TrumpetPower! said:


> Count me amongst those confused by all the hate.
> 
> Sure, it's the same old sensor. But it's an SLR body that's probably as small as is physically possible with an EF-S mount. How is that not cool?
> ...
> ...


First quote: Exactly! One thing I covet is a small body for walkaround shooting rather than lugging and banging, around my 50 or 7D. If the image quality is there then this could be a fine instrument for spontaneous captures, street shooting and so on.

Second quote: favors... sexual.... UNICORN PONY! Doh!


----------



## sneakerpimp (Mar 19, 2013)

quick n dirty overlay with T3 and 5Diii...


----------



## c.d.embrey (Mar 19, 2013)

carlosmeldano said:


> does anyone have an idea why Canon released such a camera? who is this small DSLR for?



Canon and Nikon are both losing sales to Panasonic, Olympus and Sony NEX. Theses small/light mirrorless cameras are attractive to people who don't need to impress others with the size of their lens.


----------



## Haydn1971 (Mar 19, 2013)

Where's the problem here - new small camera to extend the popularity of the EOS brand - ideal for parents to buy their kids, ideal for people with small hands, ideal as a starter camera to tie new buyers into the EOS system.

It will create more profit for Canon to keep the shareholders happy and reinvest in development - a win-win situation in my book.


----------



## c.d.embrey (Mar 19, 2013)

baervan said:


> By the way the fact that this camera (that none is expecting and none asked for) is coming out before both 70D and 7DII is a clear sign of how unimportant for Canon is the entire Gearhead/Pro-amateur/Semipro/Pro market.. T_T



Gearheads think that they are important, but the truth is that they buy very few cameras vs casual consumers. Casual consumers like small/light. *Follow the money.*


----------



## Zlatko (Mar 19, 2013)

Haydn1971 said:


> Where's the problem here - new small camera to extend the popularity of the EOS brand - ideal for parents to buy their kids, ideal for people with small hands, ideal as a starter camera to tie new buyers into the EOS system.
> 
> It will create more profit for Canon to keep the shareholders happy and reinvest in development - a win-win situation in my book.



Exactly! Small cameras are delightful. So many people wish for small cameras that offer good quality photos. They have plenty of other things to carry and they want to carry as little camera as possible, but they don't want the image quality compromises of tiny point & shoots. Cameras like this one meet a real need.

Photography forums seem to be crowded with negative people who complain about any camera that doesn't meet their personal needs at this moment.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 19, 2013)

If this is their stubborn DSLR answer to mirrorless (i.e. a small as they can make something with an optical VF without pitching the EF-S on-ramp to EF glass), this needs a 22mm (35mm FF equiv) pancake in EF-S like the EF-M version. I'd like to see how small it is, but flange to sensor in APS-C is what it is. Front to back thickness will still be much larger than small sensor mirrorless.

So.... Meh. Why. Not for me.

The old 18 MP APS-C sensor rides again... It's like Weekend at Bernie's -- it just won't die. 

- A


----------



## bseitz234 (Mar 19, 2013)

Haydn1971 said:


> Where's the problem here - new small camera to extend the popularity of the EOS brand - ideal for parents to buy their kids, ideal for people with small hands, ideal as a starter camera to tie new buyers into the EOS system.
> 
> It will create more profit for Canon to keep the shareholders happy and reinvest in development - a win-win situation in my book.



Damn, I wish my parents would buy me an $800 camera... But if they did, I'd rather have a refurb 60d or t4i plus leftover cash to put towards another lens...


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 19, 2013)

Zlatko said:


> Haydn1971 said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the problem here - new small camera to extend the popularity of the EOS brand - ideal for parents to buy their kids, ideal for people with small hands, ideal as a starter camera to tie new buyers into the EOS system.
> ...


As a backpacker, after putting tent, sleeping bag, water filter, stove, pot, 1st aid kit, raingear, spare clothing, and a weeks food into the pack, there is not a whole heck of a lot of space left over.... and I am not getting younger. A smaller and lighter camera that still takes decent pictures is VERY attractive. Bigger and better is not always the answer. If you gave me a free 1DX and a free 600 F4 it would stay home on a hike and I'd bring this one instead.


----------



## nazdar (Mar 19, 2013)

Canon just freaked out from small Nikon bodies so they made one. They are just trying anything.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 19, 2013)

Looking at all these comments, it's clear that with Canon going the B+ route with APS-C on EOS-M (for non-Americans, that's a good _but not great_ grade as many wanted a FF mirrorless), the sensor is _still _so large as to drive a good but not great 'small camera'. Neither the tiny EOS-M nor this new DSLR will be terribly small thickness-wise as a result, and the lenses will still be physically quite long.

I know the mirrorless money is in m4/3 or APS-C right now, but I still believe there is a market in ultra small sensors as they drive thinner products. There is value in a pocketable camera for those versant with SLR-style controls.

- A


----------



## mb66energy (Mar 19, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> Looks a lot more interesting to me than the under performing M series.
> 
> Just made this gif, the b is much smaller than the T4i.



A good comparison between both cameras that you provided here.

EOS b opens the opportunity to use 1 or two secondary cameras in
a standard photo backpack - by putting them with a lens attached
into a standard lens compartment. This might be the "intelligent rear
cap" for EF(-S) lenses and makes a really cute combo with the 2.8/40mm!

If I had not invested into a EOS 600D(T3i) it would be interesting ... if
it has the video zoom mode (3x) with a 100% crop of the sensor center
region (5.6 400mm with 2x TC results in 3840mm focal length!).


----------



## Kuvamastah (Mar 19, 2013)

schmidtfilme said:


> After all they called it "B"? Strange naming for sure.



*B like Bébé or baby.*
Because that's the smallest size a mirror EOS can probably reach.

They should get rid of the 1100D family, btw.


----------



## sandymandy (Mar 19, 2013)

Nooo i like my 1100D T_T First i thought the B will replace them but...799$ eh...


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 19, 2013)

carlosmeldano said:


> does anyone have an idea why Canon released such a camera? who is this small DSLR for?
> 
> tiny shiny overpriced toy...



'Sorry we can't give you a good Compact System Camera so we'll downsize our ancient DSLR technology'

Sorry to have to say this... :


----------



## bbasiaga (Mar 19, 2013)

I have the older XS...how does this compare? Based on what I know of the T4i it looks to still be smaller than the XS. That would be awesome for my astrophotography set up. In a year or two when someone offers the Baader filter mod and I can get a body only of the EOS-b, I will probably be in and very excited. 

-Brian


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 19, 2013)

schmidtfilme said:


> For me the idea of a small and lightweight DSLR seems quite attractive. I have used and worked with Sonys NEX-5 and have to say that I really prefer to look through the lens and not on a screen to compose pictures. That is why I am not really interested in the Canon EOS M either.



Get a good digital viewfinder and you're set, hence the NEX-6


----------



## JoeDavid (Mar 19, 2013)

If by some miracle it does turn out to be a new sensor, I would consider one as a backup camera for travel; mainly because of the small size. Let's face it, it is almost like having an oversized lens cap stuck on something like the 70-2002.8 II L lens! If it is not a lower noise sensor, forget it. I shoot mostly full frame and have a 7D collecting dust in a bag somewhere. It is a good camera from a functionality point of view but the 18MP sensor has more noise than I will tolerate...


----------



## Wahoowa (Mar 19, 2013)

You guys could be right that it's the same old sensor. On the other hand, being 18MP doesn't mean it has to be the same old one. Maybe 18MP is a sweet spot for APS-C. Maybe higher pixel count is reserved for more advanced cameras. 

Anyhow, I'm still hopeful for another body as it's pretty uncommon for Canon to send out invitation for lower-end bodies.


----------



## emko (Mar 19, 2013)

this definitely means that the APSC sensor in the 7DII has to be improved or who would buy the same sensor since the 550d/7d when the 7D is almost a perfect camera and i think this is why they are taking there time. Or are they just going add a few more MP and say that makes it better.


----------



## firebreatherboy (Mar 19, 2013)

i don't expect this to feature a new sensor. Especially when they're going to release the 7/70D.

They'd anyway release that 7d or 70d with new sensor.

And, a tiny entry level camera getting this sensor also somewhat confirms that the high end one's are going to get a new sensor.


----------



## pierlux (Mar 19, 2013)

I'm in the camp of those who don't agree with the ones complaining for this little baby. I mean, it has always been like that with Canon. Since this camera is probably intended as the new entry level DSLR, it is reasonable it's being equipped with the old 18 MP sensor. Think about this fact: the 1000D/XS (June 2008) had the 10.1 MP sensor previously adopted by the 400D/XTi (Sept 2006) and 40D (Sept 2007); the 1100D/T3 (Mar 2011) had the 12.2 MP sensor previously implemented in the 450D/XSi (Mar 2008), though higher density sensors had appeared meanwhile. In other words, as far as APS-C is concerned, this may denote the 18 MP sensor has reached the end of its life cycle. We may interpret this as a means for Canon to get rid of components they have in stock which didn't receive the marketing success they expected, as it seems it has happened with the EOS M, at least in the western market.
This may possibly imply we are going to have a nice surprise by Canon for the next crop DSLRs to come. We should be extremely happy about this announcement, even though not interested in buying such a thing, don't you feel the same?
Have a look at a couple of old posts by myself, I was suggesting exactly this kind of strategy by Canon:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12606.msg225245#msg225245

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=13266.msg238582#msg238582

BTW, I'm expecting to see this little baby marketed in a variety of colors...
Cheers!


----------



## jrista (Mar 19, 2013)

dilbert said:


> "EOS-b"????
> 
> What customer is going to buy a "b" camera?
> i.e. how many will ask "So where is the EOS-a?" and want to buy that?



Did you just come up with so you had something to complain about? How, exactly, is this a problem in any way, shape, or form in the "real world"? 

Seriously ppl! Complaining about the letter B?!?!?!


----------



## Albi86 (Mar 19, 2013)

pierlux said:


> I'm in the camp of those who don't agree with the ones complaining for this little baby. I mean, it has always been like that with Canon. Since this camera is probably intended as the new entry level DSLR, it is reasonable it's being equipped with the old 18 MP sensor. Think about this fact: the 1000D/XS (June 2008) had the 10.1 MP sensor previously adopted by the 400D/XTi (Sept 2006) and 40D (Sept 2007); the 1100D/T3 (Mar 2011) had the 12.2 MP sensor previously implemented in the 450D/XSi (Mar 2008), though higher density sensors had appeared meanwhile. In other words, as far as APS-C is concerned, this may denote the 18 MP sensor has reached the end of its life cycle. We may interpret this as a means for Canon to get rid of components they have in stock which didn't receive the marketing success they expected, as it seems it has happened with the EOS M, at least in the western market.
> This may possibly imply we are going to have a nice surprise by Canon for the next crop DSLRs to come. We should be extremely happy about this announcement, even though not interested in buying such a thing, don't you feel the same?
> Have a look at a couple of old posts by myself, I was suggesting exactly this kind of strategy by Canon:
> 
> ...



It all makes perfect sense except that the price tag is supposed to be 800$. Is that the entry-level?


----------



## trulandphoto (Mar 19, 2013)

Albi86 said:


> It all makes perfect sense except that the price tag is supposed to be 800$. Is that the entry-level?



Sometimes it's more expensive to make something smaller. And just because it's smaller doesn't mean it has to be a lower level.

The question is will the build quality be good enough to satisfy people used to XXD or XD bodies. I've read that the EOS-M build quality is good and I hope this follows suit.

And if a body only version is available for $699 that's reasonable. I have no desire for any EF-S kit lens.


----------



## Ewinter (Mar 19, 2013)

I'd laugh SO hard if it was an 18mpx sensor that kicked ass, because they updated it but not the pixel count


----------



## taperoo2k (Mar 19, 2013)

Albi86 said:


> It all makes perfect sense except that the price tag is supposed to be 800$. Is that the entry-level?



It'll start out at $800 but will drop over time, as other Canon cameras do.
Also I don't get all the hate for the sensor, having just got a 650D (stop gap before going FF) it holds up quite well with my 50D sensor, and that's using L lenses.

If Canon listened to people on the internet, they'd never release a camera as they'd never be able to meet peoples unrealistic expectations. I probably won't be buying this camera myself, but I can see it's appeal and the reasons for Canon producing it.


----------



## Albi86 (Mar 19, 2013)

taperoo2k said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > It all makes perfect sense except that the price tag is supposed to be 800$. Is that the entry-level?
> ...



Yes, electronic stuff tends to cost less and less as time goes by and it becomes outdated. That's a general situation, not a peculiarity of canon cameras. I still think the price is very steep for the sort of camera.

And... Eeerrrr.... Are you impressed because the sensor in your 650D holds up well with its previous generation? Is that something to rave about....?


----------



## Canon-F1 (Mar 19, 2013)

Albi86 said:


> And... Eeerrrr.... Are you impressed because the sensor in your 650D holds up well with its previous generation? Is that something to rave about....?



if your a canon user.... yes.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 19, 2013)

Ewinter said:


> I'd laugh SO hard if it was an 18mpx sensor that kicked ass, because they updated it but not the pixel count


Likewise.... ISO has bumped up and it probably has on-sensor AF to help in live-view and movie modes.


----------



## CanNotYet (Mar 19, 2013)

TrumpetPower! said:


> Really, sometimes I think the only thing that'll satisfy the peanut gallery 'round here is if the camera gets delivered by an invisible flying pink unicorn pony -- and one that grants sexual favors, to boot....


Sorry, I have to...how would you know it is pink?

And, on that note, imagine a EOS-B in pink...katching!


----------



## AvTvM (Mar 19, 2013)

Ewinter said:


> I'd laugh SO hard if it was an 18mpx sensor that kicked ass, because they updated it but not the pixel count



want to bet? ;D

I will. I bet, I will laugh very hard, if Canon brings these 2 totally outclassed DSLRs to market and sales will be .. very .. disapppointing. Like the crappy EOS-M. Not good enough, Canpon. We do not buy!!! 
HAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## TrumpetPower! (Mar 19, 2013)

CanNotYet said:


> TrumpetPower! said:
> 
> 
> > Really, sometimes I think the only thing that'll satisfy the peanut gallery 'round here is if the camera gets delivered by an invisible flying pink unicorn pony -- and one that grants sexual favors, to boot....
> ...



Well, first, reason tells us that She is invisible. Because -- well, like, duh! Have _you_ ever seen Her?

But it is faith that informs us that She is pink....

b&


----------



## Nick Gombinsky (Mar 20, 2013)

I for one like the camera. I like all the mirrorless movement, but I just can't live without an optical viewfinder. But I love their size and weight. I'd prefer to have my 5D or 7D for work but also have a small DSLR for travel and walkaround that doesn't weigh too much.

I remember an interview long ago with a Canon exec, in which he was asked about mirrorless planning, and he said something like "its not a question of having a mirror or not, people want smaller cameras with DSLR IQ. We will meet that need". I like that approach, since the EOS-M sucks at both AF and viewfinder (having none).

That said, of course that its size imposes limitations. For example, I can't think of any lens other than the kit lens, that would fit the camera and be comfortable to hold, without being front heavy. If they release a couple more lenses that are lightweight but fast/nice IQ/better than kit lens, then it'll be something else...

As a sidenote, I looked closely at the lens mount on the picture... is it me or the mount (not the ring, but the locks inside of it) are plastic? They don't shine as much as in the other DSLRs. Of course it could be just a lighting thing, but the animated GIF got me wondering... maybe its just a camera meant for kit lenses?


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 20, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Ewinter said:
> ...



One is ISO 100-25600 (EOS-B), the other is 100-12800, expandable to 25600. Of course it is a rumour and the EOS-B number could really be 1 of 3 things.... 100-12800 with 25600 expanded, 100-25600 with no expansion, or possibly 100-25600 with expansion beyond that. Since Canon tends to market with the unexpanded range, that would imply one of the two last choices, an improvement over the 650.

It is very possible that canon is switching over to a new manufacturing process for it's sensors and 18Mpixel just happens to be the small ones.... with the rumoured 24M for the 7D and possibly somewhere in the middle for the 70D.

Also has anyone else noticed this?
7D2
70D
700D, or T5i

Have the stars alligned and are we to blessed


----------



## simonxu11 (Mar 20, 2013)

What's the point of this camera, just because they cannot release anything competitive in the mirrorless market, so they reduce the size and the weight of their dslr??
Maybe Canon has a point, they know their fanboz love whatever they come out as long as it can mount ef lens


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 20, 2013)

simonxu11 said:


> Maybe Canon has a point, they know their fanboz love whatever they come out as long as it can mount ef lens



Hey, thanks. I just knew there was a reason Canon sells more dSLRs than anyone else, and you've just explained it - they count on their fanboy user base (all 200-300 of them here on CR) to maintain their decisive lead in the market.


----------



## jrista (Mar 20, 2013)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > simonxu11 said:
> ...



Where else are people complaining about the letter "b" in the simple and benign name "EOS-b"? We only get that kind of crazy here on CR.


----------



## iP337 (Mar 20, 2013)

EOS-B stands for "Baka", which is Japanese for fool, as in April Fools... ;-P

just my two cents


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 20, 2013)

iP337 said:


> EOS-B stands for "Baka", which is Japanese for fool, as in April Fools... ;-P
> 
> just my two cents



I wonder if in the naming scheme of small bodies (US vs Japan vs the rest of the world), there is still room for the aforementioned '100 D' monicker.


----------



## wickidwombat (Mar 20, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> iP337 said:
> 
> 
> > EOS-B stands for "Baka", which is Japanese for fool, as in April Fools... ;-P
> ...



EOS-Bukake? :-\


----------



## Hillsilly (Mar 20, 2013)

Canon used to have an FT-b. No idea what the "b" stood for. But it must have some significance if they are reusing it. Maybe it's "b" for "baby"? 

Anyways, as someone who likes small cameras, I'll be curious to see it in the flesh. But I'm a little surprised that they didn't go for a more modern / cutting edge design.


----------



## wockawocka (Mar 20, 2013)

carlosmeldano said:


> does anyone have an idea why Canon released such a camera? who is this small DSLR for?
> 
> tiny shiny overpriced toy...



I've had a go on the Fuji mirrorless and it confused the hell out of me. But the size was awesome.

Now if they made a competing camera with the same menus and buttons as the EOS............oh, look, Canon has.


----------



## MarkII (Mar 20, 2013)

wockawocka said:


> Now if they made a competing camera with the same menus and buttons as the EOS............oh, look, Canon has.



I wish they would. I opted for an Olympus OM-D instead of an EOS-M as a small walk-around camera. Despite the size, the sensor gives better IQ than Canon's 18MP offerings, plus you get usable AF, weather-sealing and a usable EVF. The downside is incompatibility with EOS lenses and a painful UI.

Canon ought to be able to beat the Olympus with an M-series camera. The Nikon 1 shows that on-sensor phase-detect AF can be lightening fast, beating pure contrast based schemes.

Instead of rehashing budget DSLRs, Canon I wish that Canon would just fix the M-Series by fixing the AF, releasing more native lenses, updating the sensor, and providing at least an option for an EVF.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 20, 2013)

jrista said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


I think it is because the plan for the EOS-A didn't pan out.... It was to be a special Canadian version (EOS-A, pronounced as EOS-eh?) with improved cold weather performance, but after the design team froze to death, the project was scrapped.


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 20, 2013)

MarkII said:


> I wish they would. I opted for an Olympus OM-D instead of an EOS-M as a small walk-around camera. Despite the size, the sensor gives better IQ than Canon's 18MP offerings, plus you get usable AF, weather-sealing and a usable EVF. The downside is incompatibility with EOS lenses and a painful UI.



I don't consider that a downside, as using EF lenses with an adapter negates the small form factor anyway. That's one of the reasons I decided to go ahead and buy the NEX-6 since I couldn't care less if I'm using e-mount or EOS-M mount lenses. 

Besides - apparently there is a really crazy adapter for using EF lenses on E-mount: http://www.eoshd.com/content/7141/metabones-ef-to-e-mount-adapter-for-sony-nex-review


----------



## AvTvM (Mar 20, 2013)

MarkII said:


> ...
> Canon ought to be able to beat the Olympus with an M-series camera. The Nikon 1 shows that on-sensor phase-detect AF can be lightening fast, beating pure contrast based schemes.
> 
> Instead of rehashing budget DSLRs, Canon I wish that Canon would just fix the M-Series by fixing the AF, releasing more native lenses, updating the sensor, and providing at least an option for an EVF.



Agree 100%!


----------



## AvTvM (Mar 20, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> I don't consider that a downside, as using EF lenses with an adapter negates the small form factor anyway. That's one of the reasons I decided to go ahead and buy the NEX-6 since I couldn't care less if I'm using e-mount or EOS-M mount lenses.
> 
> Besides - apparently there is a really crazy adapter for using EF lenses on E-mount:



I see that totally differently. I want a really hi-end Canon mirrorless cam. If I want to go light an small, I would use it with a really compact foldable kit-zoom and/or a bunch of really good and really small EF-M pancake fixed focals. 
When size and weight are less critical, I would want to use it with my existing hi-end EF/EF-S glass, using an original Canon adapter, that fully and natively supports any and all Canon mount-protocols issues ... from AF to IS to ETTL-flash with distance information. 

The last thing on earth I would want is having to fiddle around with third-party lens adapters, that will never truly and fully support all of Canons totally proprietary lens mount protocol. And i certainly do not want to buy a Sony mirrorless cam. I greatly prefer the Canon UI, that I am am very familiar with.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 20, 2013)

MarkII said:


> Instead of rehashing budget DSLRs, Canon I wish that Canon would just fix the M-Series by fixing the AF, releasing more native lenses, updating the sensor, and providing at least an option for an EVF.



+100 if I could. EOS-M needs more glass, vastly improved AF speed and a viewfinder. That's what it needs to compete in mirrorless. 

- A


----------



## Vagabondman (Mar 20, 2013)

So basically the EOS-B is a smaller 700D? I was hoping the 700D would get the GPS & wifi of the 6D. What exactly did it get that will differentiate it from the 650D? 

I have to say, Canons moves lately have perplexed me.


----------



## CanoSony (Mar 20, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > I don't consider that a downside, as using EF lenses with an adapter negates the small form factor anyway. That's one of the reasons I decided to go ahead and buy the NEX-6 since I couldn't care less if I'm using e-mount or EOS-M mount lenses.
> ...



Meanwhile metabones has a. EOS to nex focal reducer to gain a stop of light and make your nex like a 35mm sensor. When will EOS m have this? 


Also... Ettl... Might as well put your camera in auto


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 21, 2013)

CanoSony said:


> Meanwhile metabones has a. EOS to nex focal reducer to gain a stop of light and make your nex like a 35mm sensor. When will EOS m have this?



Yeah this is so cool it's hard not to want one 

Although putting extra glass between the sensor and the lens is a bit iffy imho.


----------



## M.ST (Mar 21, 2013)

I don´t know what is going on.

An other Canon guy name the 100D (EOS B) now SL1.


----------



## AvTvM (Mar 21, 2013)

CanoSony said:


> Meanwhile metabones has a. EOS to nex focal reducer to gain a stop of light and make your nex like a 35mm sensor.



Free lunch! Free FREE LUNCH!!!
ROFL ... hahaha!!! 

I do not want a NEX. I do not want any Sony product as a matter of fact, even if it were given to me for free. 
And the last thing I would want is a totally wacko third-party lens adapter with glass in it to reduce rechnical image quality.


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 21, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> CanoSony said:
> 
> 
> > Meanwhile metabones has a. EOS to nex focal reducer to gain a stop of light and make your nex like a 35mm sensor.
> ...



Don't you feel limited by these types of principles? :-\


----------



## Kristofgss (Mar 21, 2013)

simonxu11 said:


> What's the point of this camera, just because they cannot release anything competitive in the mirrorless market, so they reduce the size and the weight of their dslr??


Actually, I had a mirrorless camera for a while (olympus) and found myself disliking the interface and lack of viewfinder so much that I got a 1000D for the smaller form and ability to use the lenses which weren on my 7D for all the occasions where you want to have a good camera with you, but can't be bothered to drag around the larger model. Let's face it, something which would fit in a coat pocket with the 40mm pancake without having to buy new lenses sounds very nice as a carry-everywhere body. I definitely see meself getting one of these.


----------



## baervan (Mar 21, 2013)

Kristofgss said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > What's the point of this camera, just because they cannot release anything competitive in the mirrorless market, so they reduce the size and the weight of their dslr??
> ...



I'd love a small camera with EF mount, that would be awesome, but this is not it for me. I have to say that very small DSLR are very ugly, this being the ugliest of all. I'm sure that it has the build quality of a Bic pen. If it had the smooth design of a NEX for example it would totally hit the spot and I think it would sell like crazy..


----------



## AvTvM (Mar 21, 2013)

FINALLY! I consider the EOS 100D/SL1 the camera that rebels should have been all along over the last 10 years! 
It will probably sell extremely well, once initial price levels drop. 

Unique advantages
* a DSLR finally "small and light enough" ... compared to m4/3, Sony-Nex and other ILC-systems
* optical viewfinder
* takes EF-S and EF- lenses natively without an adapter
* no loss of funcationality compared to T5i/700D - except articulated LCD

critical issues:
1. sensor / IQ - unknown, but I do not expect a major upgrade in that department (DR, Hi-ISO noise)
2. AF performance - unknown, but early hints (dpreview) are: AF-speed still sucks big time

Sidenote: looks like the lens mount/bayonet is made of plastics, rather then steel/metal?


----------



## MarkII (Mar 21, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> Free lunch! Free FREE LUNCH!!!
> ROFL ... hahaha!!!


I don't understand this comment.

What the metabones adapter does is quite sensible. The image projected by a FF SLR lens covers (for example) 4x the area of a u4/3 sensor. The adapter functions like a reverse-teleconverter, so that the entire FF image is reduced to cover the area of the smaller sensor. By all accounts (e.g. lens rentals) this works extremely well, even with the additional optic elements.

There is no "free-lunch". You are simply using all the light that the lens gathers, rather than throwing it - and the field of view - away.


----------



## AvTvM (Mar 21, 2013)

MarkII said:


> What the metabones adapter does is quite sensible. The image projected by a FF SLR lens covers (for example) 4x the area of a u4/3 sensor. The adapter functions like a reverse-teleconverter, so that the entire FF image is reduced to cover the area of the smaller sensor. By all accounts (e.g. lens rentals) this works extremely well, even with the additional optic elements.
> 
> There is no "free-lunch". You are simply using all the light that the lens gathers, rather than throwing it - and the field of view - away.



I understand perfectly well, what the metabones thingy does. And no, it does not "make a NEX a 35mm camera" .. not by a long shot. 
And I would not want to fiddle around with exotic thrid-party lens adapters that will always deliver less functionality than original Canon gear and - in the case of the anti-teleconverter will also degrade image quality. 
Again, this is me ... others may love it and consider it the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

I would much rather take a Canon 100D instead of any NEX or other mirrorless currently on the market, since it has native and full compatibility with my existing Canon EF- and EF-S glass, supporting all of its functionality

What I truly want however is a High End FF mirrorless camera with lens mount. Ideally with the Nikon D800 sensor plus Canon UI and a Canon-adapter for Canon EF- glass ... at a price not higher than the D800. 

And if the Sony RX1 had come with a lens mount and a selection of first rate ultracompact fix focal pancakes and an ultracompact, decent kit-zoom ... it would have been the very first camera from Sony ever, to appear on my shopping radar screen. But unfortunately Sony is as stupid as Canon and Nikon regarding their current mirrorless offerings.


----------



## J.R. (Mar 21, 2013)

MarkII said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Free lunch! Free FREE LUNCH!!!
> ...



While I agree in principle, the AF performance using these adapters leaves a lot to be desired. After using one on my friends camera (which was sloooooooow), I couldn't care less what IQ it delivered ... But then maybe I'm spoilt with the AF of the 5d3.


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 21, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> ...And I would not want to fiddle around with exotic thrid-party lens adapters that will always deliver less functionality than original Canon gear and - in the case of the anti-teleconverter will also degrade image quality.
> Again, this is me ... others may love it and consider it the greatest thing since sliced bread.



Actually in this case the adapter delivers more functionality. If this translates to more quality as well (or not), I'll leave in the middle 8)


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 21, 2013)

J.R. said:


> MarkII said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



I already have an adapter that allows me to use Canon lenses for my Sony, but it cripples the AF even more... it's called an E-mount-FD adapter ;D


----------



## MarkII (Mar 21, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> I would much rather take a Canon 100D instead of any NEX or other mirrorless currently on the market, since it has native and full compatibility with my existing Canon EF- and EF-S glass, supporting all of its functionality



With u4/3 there is also a significant saving in size and weight in the lenses. We recently did a trip with two u4/3 bodies and five lenses that packed in to a bag with similar space and weight to a 5DIII and single 24-105mm zoom. The smaller cameras are also more discrete when street shooting.

Originally we wanted to have EF compatibility to allow the smaller camera to be used as a backup with a FF body. In practise, we now have complete duplicate u4/3 and 5DII/III lens lineups, so we pick a system based on need (size/weight vs DOF and tilt-shift).



AvTvM said:


> What I truly want however is a High End FF mirrorless camera with lens mount. Ideally with the Nikon D800 sensor plus Canon UI and a Canon-adapter for Canon EF- glass ... at a price not higher than the D800.



Yes.


----------



## moreorless (Mar 21, 2013)

baervan said:


> I'd love a small camera with EF mount, that would be awesome, but this is not it for me. I have to say that very small DSLR are very ugly, this being the ugliest of all. I'm sure that it has the build quality of a Bic pen. If it had the smooth design of a NEX for example it would totally hit the spot and I think it would sell like crazy..



I'm guessing Canon's view is that they'll target the market that cares more about "style" with the EOS M and the market that just wants a smaller body but the functions of a DSLR with the 100D.

What is I'd say really lacking at the moment is compact lens support for the 100D, add an EF-S version of the 22mm F/2 EF-M and I think your looking at a potentially very popular camera.


----------



## Sella174 (Mar 21, 2013)

moreorless said:


> What is I'd say really lacking at the moment is compact lens support for the 100D ...



An EF-S 25mm f/1.8 STM lens ...


----------



## 9VIII (Mar 21, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> CanoSony said:
> 
> 
> > Meanwhile metabones has a. EOS to nex focal reducer to gain a stop of light and make your nex like a 35mm sensor. When will EOS m have this?
> ...



That's why someone (PLEASE) needs to start making crop format lenses with that effect designed into the lens. You gain absolutely nothing by using 35mm cropped instead of 50mm on FF. Below a certain point focal length stops affecting price and it's basically all "you get what you pay for", except with a crop sensor you can't use half of the lens.


----------



## Kristofgss (Mar 22, 2013)

baervan said:


> I have to say that very small DSLR are very ugly, this being the ugliest of all. I'm sure that it has the build quality of a Bic pen. If it had the smooth design of a NEX for example it would totally hit the spot and I think it would sell like crazy..


The point is exactly that there is an optical viewfinder in there, so you can't design it flat like the sony. Besides which, if you are used to the Canon EOS series, the design seems perfectly intuitive. I fyou want a NEX, just get a NEX, it's a different target audience.


----------



## mrsfotografie (Mar 22, 2013)

Kristofgss said:


> baervan said:
> 
> 
> > I have to say that very small DSLR are very ugly, this being the ugliest of all. I'm sure that it has the build quality of a Bic pen. If it had the smooth design of a NEX for example it would totally hit the spot and I think it would sell like crazy..
> ...



Same audience, different application


----------

