# Canon confirms September 24, 2020 announcement for the Canon Cinema EOS C70



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 8, 2020)

> Canon has confirmed our previous reports that the Canon Cinema EOS C70 would be announced on September 24, 2020.
> *Press Release:*
> Canon today announces it will reveal details of a new cinema camera on Canon Vision – a platform launching at *14:00 CEST* on *Thursday 24th September 2020*, which reproduces the trade show environment virtually.
> Ideal for broadcasters, cinematographers, independent filmmakers, videographers, and more, visitors to Canon Vision will be able to learn more about the camera and explore Canon’s full range of Pro AV products and solutions. They will also gain insight into the technology from its team of product specialists and industry-leading professionals and have the opportunity to watch short film screenings...



Continue reading...


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## Mark3794 (Sep 8, 2020)

The 24th it's also the day that the A7sIII starts to ship. That's sassy


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## stevensteven (Sep 8, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> The 24th it's also the day that the A7sIII starts to ship. That's sassy



But will the C70 beat the a7siii for the independent filmmaker ? 

-Dynamic range will be similar 
-Portability will go to Sony 
-Cine body functionalities will go to Canon 
-Low Light for Sony
-Reliability will be a tie 
-Ibis for sony 

what about image quality ? Im torn when I see the c300mkii footage vs the a7siii one...


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## Twinix (Sep 8, 2020)

Awesome! 
Btw @Canon Rumors Guy there are som CSS problems on the text you copy pasted from Canon on mobile.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> But will the C70 beat the a7siii for the independent filmmaker ?
> 
> -Dynamic range will be similar
> -Portability will go to Sony
> ...




Let's see what the C70 is like before we start deciding that x or y will have better low light.


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## wanderer23 (Sep 8, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Let's see what the C70 is like before we start deciding that x or y will have better low light.



don't we already konw what the sensor is capable of, given its already been used? (and assuming CR is right, and it always is right). a7siii is the low light winner for any consumer/prosumer/professional camera in the world, and i dont' think its even a competition. (i swithced from E to RF recently w/ the R5 so i'm not biased to sony in any way, but realistic).


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## Stanly (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> But will the C70 beat the a7siii for the independent filmmaker ?
> 
> -Dynamic range will be similar
> -Portability will go to Sony
> ...



Also a7S is fullframe and does photos (even if they're only 12MP). I only hope they will address the R5 issues before the event, for those of us who have hybrid camera as a deciding factor for choosing a mount. C70 might end up great addition to the kit ... but first we need a fix for the hybrid.


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## stevensteven (Sep 8, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Let's see what the C70 is like before we start deciding that x or y will have better low light.



I am assuMing, until i know more, but for now I am assuming that the c70 will produce a similar image as the c300mkii but through RF lenses...


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## Darecinema (Sep 8, 2020)

Exciting times. I guess from my perspective just with the numbering system of C70 I am mentally placing its “usage factor” around the C100 which is able enough for some but not what I’m looking for. I’m shooting everyday with the C300II and 5DIV as my b-cam. Still making money but wishing I could have an a-cam that was the RF version of the C300 or C500. I imagine that the biggest engineering hurdle is the ND filter fitting between sensor and the back of the lens and I hope the C70 at least provides some direction on how this will be implemented in future models.


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## Joules (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I am assuMing, until i know more, but for now I am assuming that the c70 will produce a similar image as the c300mkii but through RF lenses...


What are you basing this assumption on? Did I just miss a rumor for the C70 specs?


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## stevensteven (Sep 8, 2020)

Joules said:


> What are you basing this assumption on? Did I just miss a rumor for the C70 specs?



The c70 will be using the same sensor (DGO) that is used in the C300mkII... 

So if we wanted to reason in a different way to answer my original question... which produces the best image ? the a7siii or the c300mkii? I’m not taking about camera features, specs, styles of body, etc....
I’m just talking about the final image.which one produces the nicest image ? If that can be answered objectively...


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## peters (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> But will the C70 beat the a7siii for the independent filmmaker ?
> 
> -Dynamic range will be similar
> -Portability will go to Sony
> ...


The camera is not even announced yet and you can allready judge its performance, yet alone its specs? impressive ;-D


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## HarryFilm (Sep 8, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> don't we already konw what the sensor is capable of, given its already been used? (and assuming CR is right, and it always is right). a7siii is the low light winner for any consumer/prosumer/professional camera in the world, and i dont' think its even a competition. (i swithced from E to RF recently w/ the R5 so i'm not biased to sony in any way, but realistic).



---

"......a7siii is the low light winner for any consumer/prosumer/professional camera ...."

The A7s3 DOES NOT EVEN COME CLOSE IN TERMS OF LIGHT SENSITIVITY compared to something like the X27 camera:

True MIDNIGHT FULL COLOUR RGB IMAGING (X.27 camera):





and









X27 - A 5 Million ISO True Low-Light Night Vision Camera | CineD


The SPi Infrared Starlight X27 can literally see in the dark in full colour. It is a direct competitor to the Canon ME20F-SH.




www.cined.com





The images you see are AT MIDNIGHT -- THE DARKEST HOUR!

The Sony doesn't even come close to this! The X27 has 1000x the sensitivity!

And this is only a $30,000 camera -- The REALLY HIGH END ONE from a different manufacturer (we make and have that one ourselves!) has almost NO NOISE compared to the X27 but that of course is a $750,000 USD camera system (we make that $750k USD one in-house using our own 50 micron photosites!) -- BUT -- the $30,000 X27 will do for most people!

SO NO!!!!! --- The Sony is NOWHERE NEAR the low-light winner of a pro-level camera!

V


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## Aregal (Sep 8, 2020)

Stanly said:


> Also a7S is fullframe and does photos (even if they're only 12MP). I only hope they will address the R5 issues before the event, for those of us who have hybrid camera as a deciding factor for choosing a mount. C70 might end up great addition to the kit ... but first we need a fix for the hybrid.


It would be a lost opportunity if the C70 didn't take stills...even if it was only 8MP.


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## Stanly (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> for now I am assuming that the c70 will produce a similar image as the c300mkii but through RF lenses...


Also note that C300 II has much less DR in 10bit compared to RAW, which C70 is not going to have (at least at launch) according to rumors.









Aregal said:


> It would be a lost opportunity if the C70 didn't take stills...even if it was only 8MP.


Doubt it will do RAW stills ... I believe C300 II does jpegs at 4096 x 2160 max (=


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## Joules (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> The c70 will be using the same sensor (DGO) that is used in the C300mkII...
> 
> So if we wanted to reason in a different way to answer my original question... which produces the best image ? the a7siii or the c300mkii? I’m not taking about camera features, specs, styles of body, etc....
> I’m just talking about the final image.which one produces the nicest image ? If that can be answered objectively...


Well, where is that from? I thought if something was going to be reused, it would be from the C300 III. Which you probably meant to write, as you also mention DGO. I am just unaware of which rumor it was that statet the C70 would use this sensor.

Also, does the A7S III actuall have 'similar' DR to the DGO one in the C300 III? Genuine question.


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## amorse (Sep 8, 2020)

Joules said:


> What are you basing this assumption on? Did I just miss a rumor for the C70 specs?


I don't think any specs were ever directly attributed to the C70, but this rumour was the only one I remember talking about an RF cinema camera in a "smaller" form factor and with the C300 sensor.


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## Stanly (Sep 8, 2020)

Joules said:


> Well, where is that from? I thought if something was going to be reused, it would be from the C300 III. Which you probably meant to write, as you also mention DGO. I am just unaware of which rumor it was that statet the C70 would use this sensor.
> 
> Also, does the A7S III actuall have 'similar' DR to the DGO one in the C300 III? Genuine question.


there was also this list of rumored EOS Cine cameras

And yeah, a7S is comparable in DR to the DGO one in the C300 III if filming in 10 bit on both (C70 is rumored not to have RAW video).


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## Joules (Sep 8, 2020)

Stanly said:


> there was also this list of rumored EOS Cine cameras
> 
> And yeah, a7S is comparable in DR to the DGO one in the C300 III if filming in 10 bit on both (C70 is rumored not to have RAW video).


Given those are CR2 rumors and don't directly mention this camera, I'll side with Codebunny and wait for further information before speculating on such sweeping judgements.


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## peters (Sep 8, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> "......a7siii is the low light winner for any consumer/prosumer/professional camera ...."
> 
> ...


This is a (military?) night vision system not a camera for video production... the comparison is a bit off, dont you think? (Though very impressive). 
In the "normal" world the A7s3 is certainly incredible in low light and quite possible the best video production camera for lowlight.


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## Stanly (Sep 8, 2020)

Joules said:


> Given those are CR2 rumors and don't directly mention this camera, I'll side with Codebunny and wait for further information before speculating on such sweeping judgements.


For me the point of rumors is to discuss technology and compare data, especially since most of it end up being true. I'm not finalizing buying decisions right now, just setting up expectations and deciding if it makes sense to wait for Canon to bring out something for hybrid shooters. If not for this site – I would've given up on Canon already. RF lenses are not worth the attitude Canon has towards it's customers with artificially limited specs.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 8, 2020)

peters said:


> This is a (military?) night vision system not a camera for video production... the comparison is a bit off, dont you think? (Though very impressive).
> In the "normal" world the A7s3 is certainly incredible in low light and quite possible the best video production camera for lowlight.



---

Our parent company has a much better one than the X27 and we use THAT one for video production. It's like people who buy $100,000+ Phantom 1000 fps High Speed cameras and use THOSE for commercials and cinematography. When a Red Camera or Arri Alexa-65 (rental only) setup starts gets into the $400,000 arena when you put on Zeiss Master Primes or Leica Summilux-C lens setup, who cares about price? Ya might as well buy the best-of-the-best!

And a $30,000 mil-spec nightvision camera CAN and has been used for pro-level video production (i.e. NatGeo wildlife documentaries, night skiiing, snowboarding, skydiving imagery, etc). You use whatever works for a given production. When your sensors starting getting above 20 microns per photosite with specialized photo-counting/photo-multiplier materials, full colour RGB nighvision at Midnight is as good as Daylight. 

The only issue becomes the thermal and electrical floor noise of the sensor itself which can be mitigated by super-cooling the sensor with a liquid coolant, extensive DSP (Digital Signal Processing) and much larger photosites (i.e. into the 50 to 100 microns per photosite range!)

The only OTHER issue is that you need infrared and/or UV pass-through optics which means you need full EM band pass through QUARTZ lenses or plastic such as an Optically Clear Acrylic (still blocks UV-C band) or Aluminum Oxide ceramic such Sapphire (full UV and IR pass-through) which are very expensive compared to Fluorite Glass.

V


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## Stanly (Sep 8, 2020)

BTW, any idea what those are? Interchangeable mount? May be those rumored speedboosters and PL adapters actually screw into the body?


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## fiendstudios (Sep 8, 2020)

Hey, I only write here to see if I have a badge  go Canon!


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## mariosk1gr (Sep 8, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> don't we already konw what the sensor is capable of, given its already been used? (and assuming CR is right, and it always is right). a7siii is the low light winner for any consumer/prosumer/professional camera in the world, and i dont' think its even a competition. (i swithced from E to RF recently w/ the R5 so i'm not biased to sony in any way, but realistic).


You can't compare a7s3 with c300iii sensor. a7s3 low light winner in "pro" camera world? Then let's abandon ARRI and RED and go buy sonys from now on! "TWO" different markets... how hard is to understand that? Omg what else are we going to hear these days...


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> But will the C70 beat the a7siii for the independent filmmaker ?
> 
> -Dynamic range will be similar
> -Portability will go to Sony
> ...


I wish this was sooner. I returned my Eos R5 because my feeling was it’s not really ready for serious video work. The C70 will likely be that camera, and will likely be serious competition to the Red Komodo 6K... but with usable AF and better compatibility with Canon glass.
I had ordered a Sony A7S3 on launch day, so I expect it to ship on the 24th. I might just pick this bad boy up also. The Sony was a pricey departure from my usual Canon bodies as I also needed to pick up an assortment of new glass and accessories. The C70 would be just another Canon body for me and would be perfect with my RF glass and spare C200 batteries. Not sure it would make sense to own both the C70 and the Sony? Plus... what did Canon leave out? I hate having to think that way... but here we are!


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Let's see what the C70 is like before we start deciding that x or y will have better low light.


If it’s the C300 Mk3 sensor the Sony will top it. Questions remain about dynamic range as the A7S3 has not been independently tested. Colors still go to Canon... but the gap is closer than ever.


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2020)

mariosk1gr said:


> You can't compare a7s3 with c300iii sensor. a7s3 low light winner in "pro" camera world? Then let's abandon ARRI and RED and go buy sonys from now on! "TWO" different markets... how hard is to understand that? Omg what else are we going to hear these days...


Most people using Arri are controlling light. Not so much the case when shooting as a one man band with a mirrorless hybrid.


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## iamjhil (Sep 8, 2020)

Stoked. i'm not holding my breath, but If it has IBIS added ill be happy


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## melgross (Sep 8, 2020)

peters said:


> This is a (military?) night vision system not a camera for video production... the comparison is a bit off, dont you think? (Though very impressive).
> In the "normal" world the A7s3 is certainly incredible in low light and quite possible the best video production camera for lowlight.


The best cheap video camera.


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## jesusislovely (Sep 8, 2020)

This is very exciting!


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## melgross (Sep 8, 2020)

What are the guesses in price? Anybody?


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## peters (Sep 8, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Our parent company has a much better one than the X27 and we use THAT one for video production. It's like people who buy $100,000+ Phantom 1000 fps High Speed cameras and use THOSE for commercials and cinematography. When a Red Camera or Arri Alexa-65 (rental only) setup starts gets into the $400,000 arena when you put on Zeiss Master Primes or Leica Summilux-C lens setup, who cares about price? Ya might as well buy the best-of-the-best!
> 
> ...


Ah okay, jeah on this level of quality its certainly true.Impressive stuff your company does btw


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## stevensteven (Sep 8, 2020)

mariosk1gr said:


> You can't compare a7s3 with c300iii sensor. a7s3 low light winner in "pro" camera world? Then let's abandon ARRI and RED and go buy sonys from now on! "TWO" different markets... how hard is to understand that? Omg what else are we going to hear these days...


Why are you bringing Arri into this ? 
the C70 doesn’t compare to the ARRI. Far from it. It compares to the Komodo. Then to Sony, probably the fs6. But the truth is, it might even be beat by the a7siii. This is why we ask this question. 
And being the most portable cine camera that canon will make, it does make sense to wonder if we should order the a7siii or wait for the c70... 
How hard is it to understand that ?


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## bsbeamer (Sep 8, 2020)

Aregal said:


> It would be a lost opportunity if the C70 didn't take stills...even if it was only 8MP.



Stills at 8MP might as well be some form of video still capture. Certainly hope this camera is capable of more than that...


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## Inspired (Sep 8, 2020)

For $6200. No IBIS no eyeAF, that's a hard pill to swallow. 
I'll stick with my overheating R5


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## Joules (Sep 8, 2020)

Stanly said:


> For me the point of rumors is to discuss technology and compare data, especially since most of it end up being true. I'm not finalizing buying decisions right now, just setting up expectations and deciding if it makes sense to wait for Canon to bring out something for hybrid shooters. If not for this site – I would've given up on Canon already. RF lenses are not worth the attitude Canon has towards it's customers with artificially limited specs.


Nothing wrong with that. I worded it a bit poorly, I am not against speculation. 

I think the wording by stevensteven was a bit strong, saying how things will be when the information available is not really solid enough yet. It reads a bit disingenuous if somebody wants to make a purchase and weight the pros and cons of their options, only to proclaim a winner for each of these before even having solid info on one of the contestants. That's maybe not the intent behind the post. But there is a cult of Sony people that sometimes make it hard for me to disguish between genuine criticism of Canon and straight up declaring Sony superior for being Sony.


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## stevensteven (Sep 8, 2020)

Joules said:


> Nothing wrong with that. I worded it a bit poorly, I am not against speculation.
> 
> I think the wording by stevensteven was a bit strong, saying how things will be when the information available is not really solid enough yet. It reads a bit disingenuous if somebody wants to make a purchase and weight the pros and cons of their options, only to proclaim a winner for each of these before even having solid info on one of the contestants. That's maybe not the intent behind the post. But there is a cult of Sony people that sometimes make it hard for me to disguish between genuine criticism of Canon and straight up declaring Sony superior for being Sony.



Understood. But I'm not part of the Sony cult. If I'm part of a cult, its the canon one. That's the reason why I'm here. 
What tortures me right now though, is that being objective, Sony is offering the best video camera there is. The a7siii is undoubtedly better than the R5 for video (not referring to the overheating limits). I want to expand my RF collection, but seeing what canon is putting out, it doesn't seem the reasonable thing to do anymore. 
When I compare the a7siii to the 70, its of course only speculation. That's why we're all here. because we accept the speculation. And as stated earlier, the c70 seems to be coming with the sensor of the c300iii, so this is what I base myself on. The a7siii and the c300iii are comaprable since they are two existing. 
In theory, they shouldn't be comparable since one is a 4k mirrorless, and the other one is an 11k cine camera. But, to my distress, it seems that the images they are producing are indeed comparable. I might even be coming to the conclusion that the Sony produces a better image (10bit vs 10bit).


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## marathonman (Sep 8, 2020)

Inspired said:


> For $6200. No IBIS no eyeAF, that's a hard pill to swallow.
> I'll stick with my overheating R5


How do you know it has no eyeAF? 
Somebody speculated that IBIS was unlikely due to the presence of built-in NDs. I'd be intrigued to know if that is a valid explanation.


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## Stanly (Sep 8, 2020)

marathonman said:


> IBIS was unlikely due to the presence of built-in NDs


Cooling might also be a reason not to have IBIS.



Joules said:


> there is a cult of Sony people that sometimes make it hard for me to disguish between genuine criticism of Canon and straight up declaring Sony superior for being Sony.


Every cult is like that  I've also read a theory about Sony users mostly coming from other brands so they are willing to criticize more (including Sony itself) while most Canon / Nikon / Panasonic shooters being more accustomed and less tempted to question / argue certain brand decisions.

Anyhow, I am personally waiting for Canon to have a reliable hybrid RF camera to switch to Canon. Many people on this forum consider hybrid cameras some sort of a poor mans cinema camera compromise, which is not the case. There are many occasions and workflows where hybrid is the only solution. If Canon would've fixed R5 – we would probably get it + 3 lenses by the end of the year, as well as c70 and another lens before the end of spring. If Canon is going to remain silent on R5 and just release a bunch of these cinema cameras – I can't imagine switching )=


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 8, 2020)

Any chance they’ll also be releasing the C50 at the same time? Sound like the perfect compagnion to my C200.


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2020)

melgross said:


> What are the guesses in price? Anybody?


Didn’t they say ~$6k?


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 8, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> But will the C70 beat the a7siii for the independent filmmaker ?
> 
> -Dynamic range will be similar
> -Portability will go to Sony
> ...


LOL... really! We can’t judge anything till we see results on both.

Sony is far from reliable and their menu system is horrid. Can’t beat a button for everything on Canon’s side.
IBIS in Sony full frame is not reliable for video tho they have their APSC line done right.
No one can judge low light yet.. who has better noise, iso, sharpness, image cadence... we’ll have to see.
Canon offers proper audio, built in ND and the possibility of future in body CanonRaw Lite.

I could go on but I will say this... there is only one of these cameras that you can pickup and shot with immediately and thats the canon. I would rather compared the c70 to Sony’s new camera coming out like the FX6... if all you do is video, get a video camera. You’ll wonder why you ever used a hybrid to begin with.


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## PureClassA (Sep 9, 2020)

Few thoughts based on various earlier comments:

it’s the C300 Mk 3 sensor. CR established this a few weeks ago with the initial rumor. It almost 100% will NOT have IBIS. The C300-3 doesnt. Neither will this. This is a C300-3 sensor plug and play In a smaller HALF PRICE body.

Comparing usage of $6200 pro Cinema body to a consumer hybrid Is a bit folly. NDs and proper audio with pro mic preamps and other such functions are crucial. The Alpha has no such things.

and this is still a Super 35 sensor. Not a FF. Im looking forward to this thing and also what it’s going to do to the C200 price. It will probably hit $4500 retail.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 9, 2020)

peters said:


> Ah okay, jeah on this level of quality its certainly true.Impressive stuff your company does btw



---

Technically, I should note that I am NOT an actual employee of the company.

I actually work for a video production/multimedia systems company at my day job.

I am a personal friend of the aerospace company owner (30+ years!) who gives me access to technical resources (i.e. supercomputing time) for my personal projects in exchange for my graphics programming expertise and grid-networking maintenance/setup/employee training expertise. 

I DO NOT HAVE a S (ecret) or TS: SCI security clearance in his company, so I do not have access to "The Really Good Stuff" but I do have access to an AWESOME INVENTORY of Canon 1Dc's, 1Dx 2/3's, 7D2's, 5D 2/3's, Arri Alexas, Sony Venices, Sony A7s2's, Phase Ones, Phantom Visions, Hasselblad's and some R5's if I need them so long I have full Replacement Value Insurance and 3rd party liability insurance plan on them when I sign them out.

The satellite imagery stuff this company does is mostly proprietary commercial so they are quite high tech and I get to partake sometimes in those projects because of my graphics systems expertise. I also do CODEC (Video/Audio Compressor/Decompressor) development for them and you will see the results of that development in the public arena soon enough!

This company is WHY I know about the developments in full RGB nightvision quite surpassing the Sony A7 s2/s3 cameras. The X27 is a commercially available product while the 50 micron photosite sensor we make is internal-only. BOTH cameras look like daylight even at Midnight but the 50 microns per photosite sensor we make has much less thermal and electrical noise so the image looks much clearer than the X27. In fact, I would say is it very similar to what a Canon 1Dx2 has noise-wise at ISO-6400 at Sunset. (i.e. darn good noise floor!). It is DCI 4K resolution too at up to 60 fps!

V


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## Darecinema (Sep 9, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> don't we already konw what the sensor is capable of, given its already been used? (and assuming CR is right, and it always is right). a7siii is the low light winner for any consumer/prosumer/professional camera in the world, and i dont' think its even a competition. (i swithced from E to RF recently w/ the R5 so i'm not biased to sony in any way, but realistic).


Have to agree on this. I’ve never seen another camera shoot in low light as well as the A7SII. Even a ton of the Netflix Earth at Night series was filmed with them and looks fantastic. I keep on in my bag for such scenarios as a complement to my C300ii and 5div. Color marching is a pain, but when the sun is gone, that A7SII can be a true shot saver.


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## Darecinema (Sep 9, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Technically, I should note that I am NOT an actual employee of the company.
> 
> ...


Sounds awesome. And for those with deep pockets definitely some great tools. I think the point was that for most of us having a relatively cheap tool with really decent low light filming capabilities is very convenient.


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## stevensteven (Sep 9, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Few thoughts based on various earlier comments:
> 
> it’s the C300 Mk 3 sensor. CR established this a few weeks ago with the initial rumor. It almost 100% will NOT have IBIS. The C300-3 doesnt. Neither will this. This is a C300-3 sensor plug and play In a smaller HALF PRICE body.
> 
> ...



I’m not judging. I’m speculating. Based on history, and comparable existing products. Nothing wrong with that. 

Also, like I explained ok my previous post, this question/debate is not about the butting on the side of the camera. It’s not about sound or anything like that either. 
It’s PURELY about imagine quality. Not about the process of the producing the image, such as saying things like one has ND the other one you have to screw it on as an extra cost ..... just the IMAGE QUALITY. 

TRying to be as objective as possible, which will have a nice image is most run and gun scenarios ? The a7siii, or the c70/c300iii? 
As simple as that. The image quality only. Nothing else.


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## mariosk1gr (Sep 9, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Why are you bringing Arri into this ?
> the C70 doesn’t compare to the ARRI. Far from it. It compares to the Komodo. Then to Sony, probably the fs6. But the truth is, it might even be beat by the a7siii. This is why we ask this question.
> And being the most portable cine camera that canon will make, it does make sense to wonder if we should order the a7siii or wait for the c70...
> How hard is it to understand that ?


A7S III and whatever cinema camera is not the same thing and you cannot compare them at all! As I said two different markets. A7S is a hybrid camera that does the job for ppl who are looking one system that takes stills and video at the same time and that's why there are compromises with these bodies. Built-in NDs, waveform, false color, ergonomics, no heat issues, XLRs and many other things separate completely a cinema camera from a hybrid camera. But ppl expect to get all this in one package! It cannot... how simple is that?


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## mariosk1gr (Sep 9, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Most people using Arri are controlling light. Not so much the case when shooting as a one man band with a mirrorless hybrid.


I hope you can understand that it's not the a7s's sensor that is superior in low light against cinema cameras BUT that there is huge noise reduction implementation that takes all that noise along with color information also. That's why when you expose a lot of under or over you see all this banding from hybrid cameras. That's not the case in cinema cameras. Of course you need lights when you do a professional shooting but if you assume that is the same against an a7s then Big productions would not using expensive cameras.


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## DBounce (Sep 9, 2020)

Where is it written that “Pro” cinema cameras need to have built in ND and XLR? I’m seeing many quote these as the signature of a pro body. Does Komodo have these? Not at all... How about the top of the line Red Monstro 8K? Nope... Arri Alexa LF? No built in ND, but has an XLR. 

I think that the C70 can and will be compared to hybrid bodies. The price is close enough. The small format is there. And for many hybrid shooters it’s more size that drives the decision.


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## Darecinema (Sep 9, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I’m not judging. I’m speculating. Based on history, and comparable existing products. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> Also, like I explained ok my previous post, this question/debate is not about the butting on the side of the camera. It’s not about sound or anything like that either.
> It’s PURELY about imagine quality. Not about the process of the producing the image, such as saying things like one has ND the other one you have to screw it on as an extra cost ..... just the IMAGE QUALITY.
> ...


Hi Stev. I haven’t shot with either camera yet, but I’m sure that by early next year I’ll most likely have all three incorporated into my shooting. But I’m almost positive based off my current experience shooting with the A7S2 and C300II regularly that I will prefer the look from the C3003 sensor over the A7S3 and it will have a better image quality with less banding/artifacts as the need for dynamic range increases in uncontrolled lighting situations. But In low light situations I’ll definitely choose the A7S3. This is speculation, but as soon as these cameras become available I’ll go ahead and rent them for a test shoot and post my results and share my thoughts on it.


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## PureClassA (Sep 9, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Where is it written that “Pro” cinema cameras need to have built in ND and XLR? I’m seeing many quote these as the signature of a pro body. Does Komodo have these? Not at all... How about the top of the line Red Monstro 8K? Nope... Arri Alexa LF? No built in ND, but has an XLR.
> 
> I think that the C70 can and will be compared to hybrid bodies. The price is close enough. The small format is there. And for many hybrid shooters it’s more size that drives the decision.


That's because RED makes separate audio modules they want you to drop an extra $3000 - $4500 on to attach to the brain. For example, To get what you have in a $16K Canon C-500-2, you have to drop about $45,000 into a full Red kit. Carlos Quintero did a GREAT youtube video on comparing the real cost of ownership of these cameras.


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## DBounce (Sep 9, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> That's because RED makes separate audio modules they want you to drop an extra $3000 - $4500 on to attach to the brain. For example, To get what you have in a $16K Canon C-500-2, you have to drop about $45,000 into a full Red kit. Carlos Quintero did a GREAT youtube video on comparing the real cost of ownership of these cameras.


Sony also makes a separate audio module... as does Panasonic.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 10, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> Sounds awesome. And for those with deep pockets definitely some great tools. I think the point was that for most of us having a relatively cheap tool with really decent low light filming capabilities is very convenient.



---

Then, the Sony A7S3 is a perfectly fine camera for low-light situations. If it helps, Sigma is selling their
*Sigma 35mm f/1.2 DG DN Art Lens for Sony E*









Sigma 35mm f/1.2 DG DN Art Lens for Sony E


Buy Sigma 35mm f/1.2 DG DN Art Lens for Sony E featuring E-Mount Lens/Full-Frame Format, Aperture Range: f/1.2 to f/16, Three Aspherical & Three SLD Elements, Hyper Sonic Motor AF System, Customizable AFL Button, Physical Aperture Ring; De-Click Switch, Rounded 11-Blade Diaphragm...




www.bhphotovideo.com





for only $1500 USD, which i think is one of the FINEST, FASTEST and SHARPEST pro-level lenses ever made!

Only the Zeiss Otus series is better! and that one is 2.5x the price!

So if you want ASTOUNDING low-light photos, then the Sigma 35mm Art prime lens mated to a Sony A7s3 is IDEAL for your needs. Those two items make for a FANTASTIC Astrophotography and Deep Night Forest Creature image captures!

If you take out the IR filter (Infrared) on the Sony cameras, you use a BIG IR flashlight and bath your night field shoots in wide-field infrared light in order to better capture the nocturnal animals such as mountain lions, racoons, Sasquatch, Windigo, etc. I notice the Sigma series lenses seem to allow a lot more IR light pass-through than an equivalent Canon L-series lens. The glass on most FF lenses STILL stop a lot of infrared light BUT taking out any camera's IR filter lets you see much more at night when bathing your night time area of interest with a BIG wide-field IR flashlight.

--

As another suggestion, I have also used the Canon M5 mated with some older 1980's era cine-modded ZEISS Nocto glass (f/0.95) to ALSO get astounding night imagery at decent prices. At $999 USD, the Canon M5 camera is no slouch when it comes to night imagery. Even though it has an APS-C sensor, the older cine-modded f/0.95 Zeiss glass mated to a Canon M5 camera more than makes up by giving you a 1.5 stops advantage over the Nikon D850 or the Fuji XT-4 at 40% to 70% cheaper prices!

There's a tiny bit of crop with the Nocto lens (around 1.2) but who cares when I get to see some GREAT night time desert or prairie sky imagery!

if you can't find an old Nocto series (now pretty rare and gone up in price!), the older Zeiss Contax lenses are ALSO awesome and they are f/1.2 OR EVEN BETTER!









How to Cine-Mod old Contax Zeiss Lenses from eBay on a Budget | CineD


This is an endeavor I’ve been working on and off for the last two years. Read all about it in this Contax Zeiss Cine Tune-Up Guide.




www.cined.com





We have a few of the Contax in-house because our parent company's gear-wrangler is a vintage lens buff who likes to collect custom and/or vintage lenses for custom in-house projects.

V


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## wanderer23 (Sep 10, 2020)

mariosk1gr said:


> You can't compare a7s3 with c300iii sensor. a7s3 low light winner in "pro" camera world? Then let's abandon ARRI and RED and go buy sonys from now on! "TWO" different markets... how hard is to understand that? Omg what else are we going to hear these days...



of course you can't compare the cameras. but someone simply asked about low light/ high iso performance. this isn't about how the camera is used, or professional or not, or cinema usage or not. its just comparing sensors. has little to do what what one can do with teh camera. i just responded to someone's question. you need to take a chill pill haha


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## Chuck3819 (Sep 14, 2020)

Hi Canon Rumors Guy,
Anymore info coming soon about the C70? Thanks a lot!


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