# EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 23, 2016)

```
<p>We’re told that the Canon EOS 6D Mark II is slated for release in the first half of 2017. Just like the EOS 5D Mark IV, solid specification information is extremely hard to come by. We are told that the new full frame DSLR will have it’s own sensor, just like the EOS 6D. Beyond that, very little is known. I mention this as there has been some speculation that we’d see a 6D replacement this year, and that’s just not the case.</p>
<p>We’re also told by the same person that Canon will introduce a “new nameplate” to the EOS DSLR lineup. The camera will not be one of the prototypes Canon has shown off during the last year or so.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Chaitanya (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

for 6D mk II: good 4K video, dpaf, titling touchscreen , dual sd card slots and decent af module are must. else its going to another boring upgrade in a shrinking market.

other camera should be interesting watch.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Canon Rumors said:


> ...Canon will introduce a “new nameplate” to the EOS DSLR lineup.



If it's a 4D, it will herald the death of the dSLR.


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## IglooEater (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

A new nameplate? Like a prosumer mirrorless option? maybe an 8D or a 4D. Here's to hoping it's fullframe


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## aceflibble (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

The 6D was made to counter high second hand sale rate of the 5D2, by exchanging some build quality for better image quality at the same price point. So I would expect a 6D2 would be made to counter potential second hand sales of 5D3 after the 5D4 is released, in the same way; take the 5D3, probably improve its noise at higher ISOs a little bit, give it a weaker shell, badge it as the 6D2 and you're good to go. Now, instead of buying the 5D3s which will flood the market when people upgrade to the 5D4, potential second hand buyers may be swayed into buying a new body instead, which is a lot better for Canon despite how little profit is made on bodies.

I very much doubt that a 6D2 would get things like 4k video and other such features which Canon will undoubtably want to be selling points of the 5D4. There is no way Canon would release a 6D2 camera which could compete significantly with the 5D4.


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## j-nord (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

4D - Mpix monster with similar sensor performance to the 5DIV, light on video features, 5fps, flippy tilt screen, basically a 5DS/R replacement, AA cancelation filter

5DIV - All rounder with good video capabilities, AA filter

6DII - budget FF - probably significantly lacking of video features but possibly better sensor than 5DIV, 5 fps, small buffer, moderate improvement in AF over the mki, +/- a few m-pix of the 5DIV, touch screen, tilt screen, AA filter


In this scenario the 5DIV competes more with the D750 and the 4D with the D810


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## retroreflection (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

New nameplate. Must be a [number]D, right?
Such eurocentric patriarchal narrow mindedness!
Greek character? Too Sony.
Cyrillic, Arabic, Kanji,..? Still to narrow.
Emoji is the global culture answer.

You have at least six months to argue about which emoji.


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*


None of this rumor about the 6D2 is surprising. * This all but confirms a fall launch of the 5D4.*

As many (including myself) have stated, Canon is giving its higher price point rigs the spotlight for a window of time and then the next rig down gets announced, and then the _next_ next rig down will be announced. Makes perfect sense: 1DX2 won't have a side by side less expensive 5D4 to opt for at launch, and the 5D4 won't have a side by side less expensive 6D2 to opt for at launch.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

As far as the 'new nameplate' -- yawn, that's just a name. 

The new _product line_ that will receive that name, however, is the sexy bit.

What do we think it is that wouldn't naturally fall under the Cinema / 1DX# / 5DS / 5D# / 6D# / 7D# / #0D product lines?

FF mirrorless?
A return to high-res sensors in 1D-style bodies?
A consumer videocam (not videocentric, I mean a dedicated video rig) with an EF or EF-S mount?
A sports / life-blogging / 'hey world look at me' video platform a la Go Pro?

(Post corrected: the admin said it will be a DSLR.)

#daydreaming :

- A


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## privatebydesign (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Lets have the 1Ds back please.

Stick the 5DSR sensor in the 1DX MkII body and take my money..........


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



thetechhimself said:


> 5DS/R should get a rename. It's not in the same class as the 5D anymore, it's a megapixel monster target audience, not general use, my opinion. What are you going to call the already demo'd 120MP FF 5D? 5DSRII? Too many letters, and it's created it's own segment, IE landscape shooters. Call it 8D, 4D, etc.



This has been covered elsewhere. The 5DS downsamples brilliantly to fight high iso noise well, and since Canon had the wisdom to put two chips in it, it still pops out a serviceable 5 fps despite the 50 MP. I argue it's a general purpose rig if you want it to be. 

But I do agree -- the naming was a silly call, probably to argue for the prestige-level and price of a 5D# rig without offending 5D3 owners who don't value resolution so highly if they had called it a 4D and implied resolution made it better. 

It's a tough branding line to walk, but I sort of get it. I still think a _new letter_ solves that:

1DX = High FPS + great high ISO + grip
1D@ = High MP + grip (I still think this is money left on the table by Canon, people want this)
5D = Good fps + great high ISO + no grip
5D@ = High MP + no grip

@ = choose whatever letter you want, just not 's' b/c of the old 1Ds rigs.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



privatebydesign said:


> Lets have the 1Ds back please.
> 
> Stick the 5DSR sensor in the 1DX MkII body and take my money..........



You beat me to it.

- A


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## Ryananthony (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



privatebydesign said:


> Lets have the 1Ds back please.
> 
> Stick the 5DSR sensor in the 1DX MkII body and take my money..........



Yes please.


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## Ozarker (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Canon Rumors said:


> <p>We’re also told by the same person that Canon will introduce a “new nameplate” to the EOS DSLR lineup. The camera will not be one of the prototypes Canon has shown off during the last year or so.</p>
> <p><em>More to come…</em></p>
> <span id="pty_trigger"></span>



5DX, or 4DX, or 3DX, or 2DX 8)


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## PhotographyFirst (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I will bet my left nut (stage left) that Canon is working on a full frame Rebel style camera. Even the 6D at such a low price point could have many aspects of its expense shaved off. The 6D sensor has probably paid for itself already and would be a cheapish shoe-in for a FF Rebel. 

I think the market for Canon needs to get back to where it was when the first film Rebel came out in the 90's. If you wanted a compact system, you just had to get slower FF lenses which are pretty small. When equivalence is taken into account, the sensor size between APS-C and FF doesn't make much difference. Where it does make a difference, is that it creates a barrier of clear entry for people moving from APS-C to FF. Back in the day, someone with a cheap-as-hell film Rebel could get the same image quality and use out of FF lenses as the more expensive cameras. Upgrading the system was easy for both lenses and bodies. 

If FF sensor costs have gone down enough, even if using the previous generation of tech, I could see Canon making a long-term move to phase out APS-C DSLR cameras and relegate it to the M system, which needs it's own lenses anyways.


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## captainkanji (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

4K - Couldn't care less.

As a current 6D owner, I want fantastic IQ I can afford. I think the 6D II must have the following for me to upgrade:

-Noticeably improved image quality at higher ISOs

-Improved auto focusing
(the person who approved the AF in the current 6D needs to do the walk of shame through Kings Landing)

-A little bit more DR always helps, but as long as it isn't worse than now.

Another option is for me to keep my 6D and get a 5DS/R.


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



PhotographyFirst said:


> I will bet my left nut (stage left) that Canon is working on a full frame Rebel style camera. Even the 6D at such a low price point could have many aspects of its expense shaved off. The 6D sensor has probably paid for itself already and would be a cheapish shoe-in for a FF Rebel.



A stripped down FF rig for $999-$1,199 (when you consider you can get a 6D new for $1399 or so) is possible, I suppose, but consider:

1) I don't know how you can strip down a new rig more than the 6D already is stripped down -- it only has 11 AF points after all. I suppose you could drop the wifi, gps, etc. and put the button layout on a diet much like in comparing a Rebel to an 80D.

2) They'd need more cheaper EF zooms. On the 70/75-300 side, there are budget options aplenty, but on standard zooms and UWA zooms, good luck. Other than the aging and iffy 28-135 IS USM, no Canon EF zoom that covers any part of 16-70mm costs less than $599. I think you need a cheap EF-S 10-18 and EF-S 18-55 equivalent for FF for this idea to work.

3) You could get 5x the camera for that same money in crop. That would buy you a very nicely featured 80D, loaded full of tech. 

So an FF dirt-cheap rig screams enthusiast only to me, and even then it seems a bit niche.  Canon would do well to leave that for the smaller sensored folks like Olympus or Panasonic to reach up and snatch a buck, I think.

- A


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## mnclayshooter (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> As far as the 'new nameplate' -- yawn, that's just a name.
> 
> The new _product line_ that will receive that name, however, is the sexy bit.
> 
> ...



My prediction: 

It will be RADICALLY different... given the popularity of "stylized" photography using "app" color/style filters... I predict it will top all expectations by being 1Dx size body with EF mount, but a tiny sketch artist inside pumping out polaroid-sized sketches of the scenes captured.


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



captainkanji said:


> -Improved auto focusing
> (the person who approved the AF in the current 6D needs to do the walk of shame through Kings Landing)



Yes -- offering only 11 AF points for an initial asking price of $2,099 seems criminal. But in fairness, the only options then were $3k rigs like the 5D3 or D800, so part of that $2,099 price was a cover charge to get into the FF club.

But now, yikes, FF rigs are everywhere -- Pentax, Sony, etc. -- including the dead husks of older A7 models you can get for a song. Canon's ability to demand $2k for a 'reasonably priced' FF rig (even if it goes upmarket) needs to be backstopped with tech, features, options, etc. you can't get elsewhere. Their job will be far far harder commanding a similar price this go-round.

- A


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## Pebbles (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

All this innovation is leaving me dizzy. First two new video creator kits and now possibly a new nameplate somewhere next year. While other companies waste time improving sensors, Canon are leaving them far behind.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Pebbles said:


> All this innovation is leaving me dizzy. First two new video creator kits and now possibly a new nameplate somewhere next year. While other companies waste time improving sensors, Canon are leaving them far behind.



Do you believe that 'better sensors' help sell more consumer cameras or are required for professional photographers to capture award winning images? If either were true, no doubt Canon would focus their efforts in that area.


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## justawriter (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Hmmm. No CR number on this one.


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## keithcooper (Jun 23, 2016)

*At last the 3D*

At last, a 3D, with the added bonus that anyone stupid enough to confuse it with 3D (as in 3 Dimensional) shouldn't have one anyway... 

That said, a next generation high MP sensor (100+) in a 1 series body would be a nice camera to properly replace my 1Ds mk3 (even if I find the 5Ds a superb camera).


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## Freddell (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



captainkanji said:


> Another option is for me to keep my 6D and get a 5DS/R.


I am thinking in the same way, just a pity Canon seems to have crippled autofocus in 5DS/R
see:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30142.msg604426#msg604426


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## sanjosedave (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I'd like better AF and a built-in intervalometer. and something like Ricoh GR snap focus


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## j-nord (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> 1) I don't know how you can strip down a new rig more than the 6D already is stripped down -- *it only has 1 AF point* after all.


I corrected that for you!


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## Meatcurry (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Ryananthony said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Lets have the 1Ds back please.
> ...



Yep, I think this is a certainty, shall we call it the 1DXR?


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



j-nord said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 1) I don't know how you can strip down a new rig more than the 6D already is stripped down -- *it only has 1 AF point* after all.
> ...



Ah, just like the good old days with the 5D2. 

- A


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## nightscape123 (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

6D II is the camera I've been waiting for. What I really want is:

1. Increased MP. 24+ would be nice

2. f/8 AF like the 80D

3. Improved High ISO and Low ISO

4. Improved AF module, something similar to the 80d would be nice. Something like the 5D III would be awesome but that's a stretch. 

If it can hit those 4 points then i'm all in.


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## j-nord (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Freddell said:


> captainkanji said:
> 
> 
> > Another option is for me to keep my 6D and get a 5DS/R.
> ...


I seriously doubt they 'crippled' it. There was probably a conscious design reason to do this. ex. achieve greater focus accuracy.


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



nightscape123 said:


> 6D II is the camera I've been waiting for. What I really want is:
> 
> 1. Increased MP. 24+ would be nice
> 
> ...



#1 and #3 are in the bag, IMHO, but as far as IQ goes it all depends on your expectations. If you want two more stops of high ISO at the same noise levels or 2 more EVs of DR at base ISO, you probably will be disappointed.

#2 and #4 I'm less sure. AF will certainly improve, but how much it will improve remains to be seen. AF, FPS, build quality, max shutter speed, video modes, etc. are the key metrics that Canon nerfs with the cheaper body to get you to buy the better 5D model that sits above it.

- A


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## CanonGuy (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Exciting time ahead. I just hope they finally can put a decent censor in those cameras. It's 2016 already!


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## slclick (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

This makes perfect sense, who in their right mind thought a 6D2 would come before the 5D4? But the new model...now pass the popcorn baby!


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## JMZawodny (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

While giving the 5DS/R its own number (like 4D) makes a lot of sense, I'm thinking the new model will be the "pro M". I have no idea what they'll call it. Everyone wishing for a new nD model I believe have missed the mark.


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Where the hell have all these 1Ds people been?! 

I've been sticking up for a high MP 1D-body rig in a bunch of threads and there are always crickets when I bring it up.

Thanks for joining the discussion on this. I don't personally want such a rig, but I fully get why someone looks at the choice of high resolution *OR* a 1D body feature set and says "How much more do I have to pay to make that OR turn into an AND?"

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



slclick said:


> This makes perfect sense, who in their right mind thought a 6D2 would come before the 5D4?



Because some people (erroneously) think the 5DS itself was a sequel to the 5D3, and therefore _another_ 5D model should not come out that soon:

https://youtu.be/qDvul84wues?t=9m19s
(feel free to giggle)

- A


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## keithcooper (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> Where the hell have all these 1Ds people been?!


Well, I've only been mentioning it since the 1D X came out


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## Ladislav (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



nightscape123 said:


> 6D II is the camera I've been waiting for. What I really want is:
> 
> 1. Increased MP. 24+ would be nice
> 
> ...



In my opinion improved AF module is only part of the story. 6D has 11 AF points but when you really decide to use them, quickly switching among them is terrible and error prone. Most of the time I'm still faster to use center point and recompose. If 6D Mk II has 20-40 AF points with good spread and most of them cross type, it will be great improvement but I'm afraid it will still keep the same way of AF point selection - no joystick from 7D/5D.


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## Haydn1971 (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

New nameplate to "DSLR" range ?

Does that mean;
A - A new DSLR, or
B - A new EOS big camera that's not a DSLR

Could mean anything
- An emerging market full frame 9D using old tech, say a cut down 5DII/6D
- A video focused EOS xD model - a cut price 1D C in a 5D/6D body size
- Mirrorless EF models EOS Q range that simply uses EF lenses but without a mirror - APS-C and FUll Frame
- Mirrorless EF-Q models that can us EF lenses with an EOS-M type adaption - FUll Frame only
- Higher end solution - Medium format ?
- Relaunch of the small body format, EOS-S with a SL/100D sized duo of entry and mid range cameras

My bet would be a EOS-Q using EF fitting - one based on the 7DII the other the 5D3/4


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Am I the only person with hopes of a 7D Mark iii still in 2017?


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## ahsanford (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ajfotofilmagem said:


> Am I the only person with hopes of a 7D Mark iii still in 2017?



Not at all, but unless someone produces evidence that the D500 crushed 7D2 sales, I'm not seeing a 2017 7D3. See timeline from Northlight for perspective on that -- it's not a 3 year product update like the XXD line or 4 year update like the 1DX#/5D# lines, it's more like a 5 year cycle for those rigs.

Maaaaaaybe the D500 gooses Canon to shorten that a bit, but 2018 seems more likely than 2017.

- A


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## j-nord (Jun 23, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> Where the hell have all these 1Ds people been?!
> 
> I've been sticking up for a high MP 1D-body rig in a bunch of threads and there are always crickets when I bring it up.
> 
> ...


I'm curious why a 1D body? What about the larger 1D series do you feel is needed/complements a very high m-pix sensor? High m-pix = low fps which means a reduced need for top of the line AF or the special battery to drive the big whites. Could it be a standard 5dIII -ish sized body with additional weather sealing and the firmware features you want? A 1D body is less practical for the landscape crowd.


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## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



j-nord said:


> I'm curious why a 1D body? What about the larger 1D series do you feel is needed/complements a very high m-pix sensor? High m-pix = low fps which means a reduced need for top of the line AF or the special battery to drive the big whites. Could it be a standard 5dIII -ish sized body with additional weather sealing and the firmware features you want? A 1D body is less practical for the landscape crowd.



Back in the day, an integral grip body didn't automatically mean jackhammer fps rates and sideline sports. It was one of two options -- 1D or 1Ds. The 1Ds camp were the studio and landscape folks who would either control lighting in a studio or put it on a tripod in the field.

1D bodies have very very nice features that 5D folks don't get that have nothing to do with sports, AF, framerate, etc. Go *here* and pan down to 'Canon EOS 1D X Feature Advantages Over the EOS 5D Mark III' and get a slice of what I'm talking about.

For the non-sports/wildlife shooter, I'd say the biggies in the 1D feature set (unrelated to the sensor) are:


Ethernet for tethering
Facial recognition
Better metering, including the coveted spot metering at any AF point
Built-in viewfinder shutter for long exposures
Faster sync for flashes
Built for war; the best sealed rig Canon sells

...but I defer to those folks asking for a high res 1D body. They'll tell you. Those asking for a high MP 1D body are looking forward to more than just a vertical grip.

- A


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## rrcphoto (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Well maybe it's finally time for a eos-3d take the 1dx and put it into a smaller body.

If canon is coming up with a new nameplate, ie number
It's pretty limited to 2 to 4 or 9.

9 would be my guess if they were doing a rebel full frame.

I could see canon making a cheaper full frame based upon rebel ergonomics it could be smaller than the 6d mark Ii if it has a fully articulated screen.


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## danski0224 (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

1DS Mk IV please. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the 5DS/R has also been sort of a beta test for some of the hardware behind a 1DS Mk III replacement.


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## cpsico (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Hopefully it's a solid still image camera that can do video, but is clearly focused on still image quality like the first 6d. The original 6D files can be hammered in post and come out dazzling


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## dak723 (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

All I would like to see in the 6D MkII is that it is smaller and lighter. It already takes great pictures.


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## RGF (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > ...Canon will introduce a “new nameplate” to the EOS DSLR lineup.
> ...



Canon's name is a somewhat systematic and also chaotic.

1D series. Got it, but at some point Mark .. will get too high they will need to make new series like the 1D became the 1Dx.

5D/6D. okay full frame more features/less features.

7D. Crop sensor. Should this be a single digit? Or does one expect a 7D to be scaled down 6D with absolutely minimal features?

Perhaps Crop should be double digits like the 10D, 20D, ... of course Canon will soon be out room after the 90D.

Missing is the 3D - like the EOS3. Just below the EOS 1V. That in a sense is the 5D.

They need to rationalize number/names.

wonder what they have in mind.


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## RGF (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I would like to see a the 5D M4 become the 3D. 1D build, 1D controls except without the builtin grip. Same AF,8-10 FPS, same sensor, ... Won't happen but that is on my wish list.


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## Meatcurry (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



j-nord said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Where the hell have all these 1Ds people been?!
> ...



I guess the 1D body would allow faster FPS at 50MP and crop modes, maybe with new dual or quad processors?


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## arcer (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Oh oh, can I join the fun? I love making un-educational guesses.

Since it is rumored to have a new nameplate:
1DXR: Finally a high MP camera for the studio crowd may come back but I doubt they will name it that. Canon haters will have a field day saying that the 1DXR only has 1DR. 
1DXS: Neither will they call it that as that is another awesome name for Canon haters to laugh at the XS phallic size that Canon fan boys have, who have to compensate with larger cameras. 
8D/9D: Since there was a rumor last year about 6D2 going upmarket, maybe they will introduce a newer budget FF that will make the numbering system of Canon make sense. Why would 6D, having a number bigger than 7D, has specs that are so "inferior" that makes it looks like a Holga next to the Sports-centric 7D?

Going back to the 6D2, I have always stand on the side who thinks that the 6D successor will only be released after 5D4 comes out. It makes sense logically in marketing.
But personally, I think Canon will offer the 6D2 with similar features to the 80D while introducing a new range of "Rebel" FF. Increasing market segmentation to better serve different customers with differing needs, but continuing to ignore irrational individuals who want everything in a small and affordable body.


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## Pitbullo (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



IglooEater said:


> A new nameplate? Like a prosumer mirrorless option? maybe an 8D or a 4D. Here's to hoping it's fullframe


That, or just a new nameplate. Made out of plastic instead of metal. Brand new


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## kevl (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



j-nord said:


> 4D - Mpix monster with similar sensor performance to the 5DIV, light on video features, 5fps, flippy tilt screen, basically a 5DS/R replacement, AA cancelation filter
> 
> 5DIV - All rounder with good video capabilities, AA filter
> 
> ...



This is the most obvious probability. The 5DSr was a stop gap & test run at the same time. It is also why the 5DIV has taken so long. I think they considered going high MP with it but found that splitting the line would be more profitable.


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## Fleetie (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



CanonGuy said:


> Exciting time ahead. I just hope they finally can put a decent censor in those cameras.



Camera: "I'm not saving THIS image to the card! That lady's showing her bare ankles!"


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Fleetie said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Exciting time ahead. I just hope they finally can put a decent censor in those cameras.
> ...



;D

He needs to be sensured. Perhaps he's been inhaling too much smoke from a censer?


----------



## zim (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Fleetie said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Exciting time ahead. I just hope they finally can put a decent censor in those cameras.
> ...



Not sure it's etiquette to make fun of typos, but that gave me a giggle ;D


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Canon 6D .............. Nikon D610

Canon ?? .............. Nikon D750

Canon 5D MKIV .......... Nikon D810

Canon 5Ds / r ........... Nikon ??

Canon 1D X MKII ......... Nikon D5

My money is on a competitor to the Nikon D750 with the Canon 5D MKIV going up in price to match 5Ds/r pricing.


----------



## NancyP (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Improved sensors are always nice, but what I miss the most in features on the current 6D is a tilt screen. I do a lot of macro at ground level using live view magnification for fine-tuned focus - I really miss the 60D tilt screen.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



jeffa4444 said:


> Canon 6D .............. Nikon D610
> Canon ?? .............. Nikon D750
> Canon 5D MKIV .......... Nikon D810
> Canon 5Ds / r ........... Nikon ??
> ...



Your middle three don't line up at all. This is the problem with FF segmentation -- only two of the segments (entry-level and gripped) are set. The rest vary from company to company:

Of the following segments: Video / Good / Better / Best / Gripped

Nikon's lineup = Nothing / D610 / D750 / D810 / D5

Sony's lineup = A7S / A7 II / Nothing / A7R II / Nothing

Canon's lineup = Nothing / 6D / 5D3 / 5DS / 1DX2

And yes, I recognize the 5D3/5D4 segment is not the better segment, it's the 'all-arounder' segment for Canon, and the 5DS is not the best segment, it's the 'detail' segment from Canon. Neither line up naturally to any of the competition. 

So as Dilbert (previously) and Jeffa (above) are trying to do, we lose as a user base when we try to keep up with the Joneses in the segments that they have defined. Canon is wise to have a different segmentation/portfolio that the _competition_ doesn't line up to.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



kevl said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > 4D - Mpix monster with similar sensor performance to the 5DIV, light on video features, 5fps, flippy tilt screen, basically a 5DS/R replacement, AA cancelation filter
> ...



This tells the all-arounder loyalists in the 5D3/5D4 camp that more pixels are worthy of a lower number / more prestigious designation, which I think would offend them and have them believe pixels are all Canon sees to winning more money from them. I don't think this will happen, _because Canon wants to take $3500 from both the all-arounder camp and the detail camp_.

I personally see something like 1DS4 (or new name) / 1DX sitting in 'prestige parity' to both command that $6k asking price and 5DS / 5D4 sitting in parity to both command the $3500 price.

- A


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > Canon 6D .............. Nikon D610
> ...



That maybe your opinion but when it comes to the general public and camera stores they do compare the 6D to the D610 or the 5D MKIII to the D810 as do many reviewers, don't take my word for it just search the web.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



NancyP said:


> Improved sensors are always nice, but what I miss the most in features on the current 6D is a tilt screen. I do a lot of macro at ground level using live view magnification for fine-tuned focus - I really miss the 60D tilt screen.



If the 6D2 is moving upmarket as was famously alleged (perhaps to run along side the 'affordable all-arounder' that is the D750), a tilt-screen seems a very high probability.

If the 6D2 will remain the affordable 'entry' FF rig... I was going to say no tilty-flippy, but I just think it will have it regardless of where it's positioned. 

It's a enthusiast/prosumer rig that isn't going to cover warzones or polar expeditions. I think it's getting a tilty-flippy. I very well could be wrong.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



jeffa4444 said:


> That maybe your opinion but when it comes to the general public and camera stores they do compare the 6D to the D610 or the 5D MKIII to the D810 as do many reviewers, don't take my word for it just search the web.



Oh, I agree, but that's because of price. Compare the features and a 5D3 is much more of a D750 competitor today. 

I think the 'drift' of the segments over the last few years, including:


Wildly different refresh timelines (Canon = glacial, Nikon = average, Sony = cocaine-fueled)
The introduction of the 'affordable all-arounder' segment with the D750
The bracing A-bomb of a 50 MP offering (regardless of whether it's only 'good' and not _'D810 good'_ in sensor tests)
Sony making a concerted effort with a low res / video / low light monster product line

Says that the companies' don't feel a compulsion to punch-back with identically spec'd rigs in pre-ordained segments. 

This very well may be a good thing. Companies are trying to stand out rather than say 'yeah we have that, too'.

- A


----------



## arcer (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > Improved sensors are always nice, but what I miss the most in features on the current 6D is a tilt screen. I do a lot of macro at ground level using live view magnification for fine-tuned focus - I really miss the 60D tilt screen.
> ...



I would love a tilty-flippy for the 6D2 too, not an articulating one.

I have said many times in my short career as a random CR poster that the 6D2 will go upmarket according to a rumor last year. I will continue to fantasize about it until I'm told wrong by Canon. And as 6D2 become better, we will have a "8D" to become the new rebel FF camera.


----------



## arcer (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

My prediction for the future Canon DSLR lineup
FF
1DX2 ----- Flagship/ Professional Hardcore camera
<------------- Probable new DSLR named 3D as video DSLR or new title for high-res studio cameras
5DSR ----- Professional/ Studio
5D3/4 ----- Professional/ All rounder
6D2 ----- Prosumer (Upmarket from 6D)
6D ----- Entry
<------------- Probable new DSLR named 8D as new entry level camera or A7S competitor/ low light camera

APS-C
7D2 ----- Professional/ BIF & Sports-orientated (Cropped Flagship)
80D ----- Prosumer
100D ----- Specialized lightweight camera
750D ----- Consumer
1200D ----- Entry


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



arcer said:


> I have said many times in my short career as a random CR poster that the 6D2 will go upmarket according to a rumor last year. I will continue to fantasize about it until I'm told wrong by Canon. And as 6D2 become better, we will have a "8D" to become the new rebel FF camera.


*
That's the wildcard, isn't it? Is there enough 'feature space' in the FF market to allow all of these to coexist?*

*8D* (or whatever you want to call it): a stripped down 'FF Rebel' with bare bones everything on an EF mount / FF sensor rig -- the 6D going _downmarket_, as it were. The original 6D sensor, 1/4000 max shutter, no wifi, no gps, completely nerfed video mode, 9 AF points, 3 fps burst, a tiny viewfinder, no wheel on the back, and no top LCD. --> say $1,199.

*6D2*: The current 6D going _upmarket_: new sensor, 5-6 fps, give it a pop-up flash, tilty-flippy, wifi/gps, a 'middle' level AF system (20-30 points, neither world-beating nor budget), 1080 video with good options --> say $1,899.
_
(one could ponder the 6D2 could go even higher upmarket into a $2k-$2500 space with a few critical adds -- a bump to 36 MP, integral 'power zoom' functionality for video, DPAF, etc. if Canon didn't mind threatening 5D4 sales.)_

*5D4*: Start with the current 5D3 but now at 7-9 fps, new sensor, 4K, anti-flicker, DPAF, best low light performance of anything short of the 1DX2, the '1DX2-ish' AF system (same points, but less power/speed like with the 1DX vs. the 5D3) --> $3,499.

*5DS*: As it stands today (too early for a refresh) --> settling in at a 5D4-similar $3,499 spot

Personally? I think there's more meat on the bone between the 6D and 5D3 today to warrant an additional line between the two if Canon really wanted to flood the market. I still think an 8D (Rebel FF) is not going to work for a host of reasons.

- A


----------



## arcer (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> *
> That's the wildcard, isn't it? Is there enough 'feature space' in the FF market to allow all of these to coexist?*
> 
> - A



The million dollar question for Canon. 

Anyway, I have always dreamed of 6D2 going upmarket, but I'm thinking of it being like the FF 80D while the new camera comparable to the rebels but FF.
Maybe it's to satisfy the Good/Better/Best system 



ahsanford said:


> Personally? I think there's more meat on the bone between the 6D and 5D3 today to warrant an additional line between the two if Canon really wanted to flood the market. I still think an 8D (Rebel FF) is not going to work for a host of reasons.
> 
> - A



But yeah, I kind of agree with you. It can make it feel cluttered for the customers.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



arcer said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Personally? I think there's more meat on the bone between the 6D and 5D3 today to warrant an additional line between the two if Canon really wanted to flood the market. I still think an 8D (Rebel FF) is not going to work for a host of reasons.
> ...



Call me crazy, but I think there needs to be a big cliff between FF and APS-C options/performance to justify and validate someone making that plunge. A budget FF rig (with the cheaper EF zooms I mentioned in my link above) would muddy/soften the FF/APS-C divide to the point that FF loses currency -- you'd see APS-C folks getting better results with L lenses than FF does with a super budget zoom, etc.

The question is: _who needs it to be that way* more*?_ Canon (to keep prices up on EF gear), or folks who already made the plunge and need to feel good about it? 

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> A budget FF rig (with the cheaper EF zooms I mentioned in my link above) would muddy/soften the FF/APS-C divide to the point that FF loses currency -- you'd see APS-C folks getting better results with L lenses than FF does with a super budget zoom, etc.



Converesly, I think the $599 24-105 non-L plus a budget FF rig may sell fairly well bundled together as a kit (effectively knocking $200 or more off the lens price). I suspect that may have been part of Canon's roadmap when developing the lens. Consider...you can get a really good intro APS-C rig (e.g. 80D + 15-85), or for a relatively small premium you can get the budget FF that Canon will market to the masses based on the 'secret sauce' of a FF sensor. Then, Canon can make more as people need a FF UWA, more reach on FF, etc.


----------



## j-nord (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious why a 1D body? What about the larger 1D series do you feel is needed/complements a very high m-pix sensor? High m-pix = low fps which means a reduced need for top of the line AF or the special battery to drive the big whites. Could it be a standard 5dIII -ish sized body with additional weather sealing and the firmware features you want? A 1D body is less practical for the landscape crowd.
> ...



Didn't answer the question... "Could it be a standard 5dIII -ish sized body with additional weather sealing and the firmware features you want? ". To clarify a little, my question is what is inherent in a 1D sized body that couldn't be squeezed in a 5d3 size body (or probably slightly larger) besides the battery system? Why can't Canon build a slightly larger non-griped body and squeeze in the features you are asking for?


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



j-nord said:


> Didn't answer the question... "Could it be a standard 5dIII -ish sized body with additional weather sealing and the firmware features you want? ". To clarify a little, my question is what is inherent in a 1D sized body that couldn't be squeezed in a 5d3 size body (or probably slightly larger) besides the battery system? Why can't Canon build a slightly larger non-griped body and squeeze in the features you are asking for?



Knowledgeable 1D series owners will answer this better than I can, but it depends on the feature:

For fps/throughput, they absolutely can put two chips in a non 1D body -- the 5DS and 7D2 both offer that. It's just a question of cost, battery life, etc. (Consider: the dual chipped 5DS and 7D2 sit around 2/3 of the battery life of the 5D3 with it's solitary chip).

_...can they get a full 14 fps in a non-gripped body if they did that? _ Unlikely that high, one would expect -- a much beefier shutter/mirror setup would need to go in there. But they could move the data and crack 24 MP x 10 fps pretty comfortably, one would think.

For spot metering at any AF point, I do not care about internal architecture and dedicated metering hardware statements -- it's a Canon-dictated intentional nerfing of the 5D line. A Nikon D5500 can do this. A _cell phone_ can do this. Canon just has to relent and find a way to give up the goods here.

For AF speed, tracking efficacy, extra power to big zoom lenses, etc. I was always told that it's a battery power thing. That might be harder to pull off in a non-gripped setup, I'd think.

I'm sure Neuro and the other 1D folks know the sure-they-coulds vs. might-be-able-tos vs. can't-really-be-dones better than I do. I am just speculating.

- A


----------



## mitchel456 (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

so tony Northrup was right the 6d ii is not going to be a 2016 camera


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



mitchel456 said:


> so tony Northrup was right the 6d ii is not going to be a 2016 camera



But he also said this:
https://youtu.be/qDvul84wues?t=9m19s

...which he is all but certainly wrong about. 

He got two things hilariously wrong in just that one passage I linked: the 5DS is not the sequel to the 5D3 (or it would have been called the 5D4) and the 5D line has *never* been on a 3 year refresh cycle.

- A


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 24, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



mitchel456 said:


> so tony Northrup was right the 6d ii is not going to be a 2016 camera



If you make as many predictions and statements as he does then statistically some of them must be right.............


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> The release of the 5Ds created a problem with DSLR naming that Canon fixed with the 1DX.



The 'S' is the only wildcard to me. Had they chosen any other letter -- let's say T for tripod, humor me -- a future state _could_ have been:

1DX2 = i.e. the 2nd model of the 1DX line
1DT = the long long long awaited high res 1D body, a 1Ds Mark IV if you will

5DX = what the 5D4 would be released as instead of 5D4
5DT = what the 5DS is now

But (a) since the 5DS is already out in the wild and (b) the 5D4 seems overwhelmingly likely to be called the 5D4, I agree with Dilbert that the 5DS sticks out in a nutty way now.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> arcer said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



prosumer market is oversaturated.

there is the 5D, 5Ds, and if the 6D does go upmarket as rumored.. 

the lineup doesn't need another big DSLR with a top plate LCD,etc,etc,etc

what it needs is something the other way, light small and cheap.

the T5i is similar in size to the A7 II series. why not make a full frame model that covers off the small and light crowd that right now has nothing in canon's eco system.

the 5D line matches up with the 7D crop. the 60-80D line matches up with the 6D .. the rebels have no ff equivalent.

why not? there's certainly cheap FF lenses (the 24-105 non L, the newly mentioned 70-300 IS USM II) and some nice small primes such as the 24,28,35 IS USM and 40mm pancake available.

the rebel ergos remove the top LCD, the command dial on the left hand side, and compact down the size of the camera.

That makes a pretty nice full frame kit actually for consumer grade.

Canon has always competed on economics, this gives them a nice tidy way of doing that again and also compete on size.

canon makes their own sensors - start this battle off on economics. price it just above the T6s. call it the Rebel TXs.

that would be the consummate kit backup body or go light kit with a 24-35mm IS USM prime, or the 40mm pancake.

wouldn't have the words best viewfinder, go penta mirror it needs to be small, but damn, would be hard not to buy it.

also another reason for this. the Rebel series sell VERY well domestically. with uncertainty looming making another economic line versus another 300,000 yen camera body may not be a bad idea.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



j-nord said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > j-nord said:
> ...



I'd have to agree – the larger battery notwithstanding, the technical features could be 'squeezed in'. But just because Canon _could_ do something, it doesn't follow that they will. 

However, what can't be 'squeezed in' is ergonomics. Holding a 1-series is (for me, at least) more comfortable in both orientations than a 5-series. The balance with 'typical' lenses (f/2.8 zooms) is much better. Adding a grip is not equivalent, it's less comfortable (because the shape differs to accommodate 1-2 smaller batteries) and there's flex between body and grip that can impact critical work with the grip mounted to a tripod (and that's going to be more true at high MP).


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > The release of the 5Ds created a problem with DSLR naming that Canon fixed with the 1DX.
> ...



It's obvious, in Canon's mind the 5DS/R models replaced the 1DS series of cameras, the 'S' is a constant for the target market and there is no confusion for those buyers.


----------



## slclick (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

It will be an APS-H and come with a kit 50mm 1.4 Ring USM with IS and BR coatings. There, what did I miss?


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



j-nord said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 1) I don't know how you can strip down a new rig more than the 6D already is stripped down -- *it only has 1 AF point* after all.
> ...



Haha, agreed.


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > 6D II is the camera I've been waiting for. What I really want is:
> ...



Respectively disagree. As a 6D owner one can work around most of the "shortcomings", but the AF is by far it's achilles heel. Releasing anything without a significant improved, modern AF system would reflect incredibly poorly on Canon. As others have said, the landscape has changed enough since the 6D release that there are a number of FF options out there. And for Canon, a "leader" in the industry to release a FF camera with an AF system equivalent to a couple generations ago Rebel is just embarrassing to the brand.

In short, the AF system is for sure the #1 item on the list of improvements for the 6D2.


----------



## arcer (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



privatebydesign said:


> mitchel456 said:
> 
> 
> > so almost everyone was right the 6d ii is not going to be a 2016 camera
> ...



Corrected it for you ;D


----------



## pvalpha (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I expect a 6DII to be really incremental in upgrade. No real MP bump. But a far better AF system. 

The new body I expect to be a version of a rugged pro body for studio work in the $6k - $10k range (which is why I also expect they will keep the 5Ds/r). Less shutter speed, far more MP, possibly 120mp. I expect it to share the same sensor as what will be the 5Ds/r II a few years down the road. 

I also expect we'll see a 7DIII with 36-48mp sensor before the new body is released. They need to bash the D500 a bit, and since the 7DII shares dot-pitch specs with the 5Ds/r's sensor, I expect them to use the 7DIII to test whatever type of sensor they plan on putting in a 3Ds/r or 5Ds/r II. The APS-C format makes it so they can get more useful samples out of the same die, while not requiring drastic changes in the other tech driving the camera. So if they've iterated a BSI/stacking technique into the 120mp test sensor they slapped into an EOS body before, expect to see the APS-C version of that sensor in a 7DIII. 

Before any of that though we need to see higher resolution versions of the 70-200 F2.8L IS and possibly IS on the 24-70 F2.8 with a higher resolution. IS is a necessary component of any high MP camera. Using the traditional formula, you'd lose a quarter of your 120mp resolution with just camera jitter. Even if you use 1/(fl*2) for your shutter speed without IS you're still going to lose a significant amount of detail - even if your glass could theoretically resolve 100% of the sensor resolution. The alternative is, of course, integrating IS into the sensor itself. I really, really don't see canon doing that.


----------



## tcmatthews (Jun 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I still hope the 6DII is announced before Fall 2017. But if the release of the given how long it is taking for the 5D IV I would not be surprised if it is delayed until then. As for specs I think it will be around 22-24MP with dual Pixel autofocus and it better have an articulating screen and the same body style. 

As for the other camera I hope it is a long awaited return of a Full Frame Rebel camera likely with a tweaked version of the 6D sensor. I still think Rebel F or what ever it will be called would be a good deal.


----------



## Adelino (Jun 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I really want the 6DII to be just a full frame 80D.  If all specs are same as 80D I am buying it  Will probably buy it anyway... 

I would also like to see a FF Rebel especially if they make it a smallish body like what the SL1 is to the crop bodies. A high end mirrorless would be cool... so would a super mega pixel


----------



## cellomaster27 (Jun 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I'm thinking the new DSLR body could be alluding to the FF mirrorless? that would make more sense than a new version/addition to the current lineup of dslrs. The FF ML wouldn't necessarily be new in terms of raw specs, but a different system that is not in the current lineup. I know the heading says DSLR..


----------



## wsmith96 (Jun 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



NancyP said:


> Improved sensors are always nice, but what I miss the most in features on the current 6D is a tilt screen. I do a lot of macro at ground level using live view magnification for fine-tuned focus - I really miss the 60D tilt screen.



+1. I also miss not having all af points be cross type.


----------



## wsmith96 (Jun 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Fleetie said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Exciting time ahead. I just hope they finally can put a decent censor in those cameras.
> ...



To expand, I think it should also bleep out the curse words when you are taking video.


----------



## slclick (Jun 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



wsmith96 said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > CanonGuy said:
> ...



What about all of us stills only shooters that like curse words? Canon is crippling their bodies and crippling our minds!


----------



## zim (Jun 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Adelino said:


> I really want the 6DII to be just a full frame 80D.  If all specs are same as 80D I am buying it  Will probably buy it anyway...



I think that is exactly what it will be, an 80D but with the 5D3 sensor and 5fps in a 6D body size


----------



## gsealy (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



wsmith96 said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > CanonGuy said:
> ...



Awesome -- good stuff.


----------



## gsealy (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

IDK, but I am thinking maybe Canon goes the medium format route for this new line. On the video side they are coming out with a C700 to compete with the big boys. Now maybe they go medium format to compete with Phase 1 and Hassy's. Once they come out with the 5DIV, it seems they are really well covered with all the various layers of cameras they have. Another one in that space would confuse things further. But medium format? Now THAT would be different animal and hit at the high end commercial market. Just a thought, I really don't know.


----------



## martti (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

It is quite amazing that they managed to create the 5D line that has so well stood the test of time. You still have to pay real money for a good 5D2! Even the people who wanted to have the extra depth of the Sony sensors keep and adapt their Canon lenses rather than jump into nothingness. Canon knows business.


The way I see it the 5D IV will be about as good that a DSLR will ever get. An era is about to end. 
More and better pixels, higher processing rate, 4K video, intelligent AF, digital vibration control, yet another CR format and more connectivity. Longer battery life and wireless charging.
What else? Not much else. This will be it.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> If the 6DII has the 5D3 sensor then it will be an automatic fail, not to mention a step backwards in IQ for the 6D line.



Well, it would automatically fail in dilbertland, where the sole resident wouldn't buy one...

Meanwhile...out here in reality, several years of sales data show the effects that lower than competitors' DxO Scores, IQ bashing by DPR, and reusing old sensors in new cameras have had on Canon's market share – they remain the ILC market leader. Sensor ≠ camera. 

Oh, and be sure to call up Nikon's CEO and tell him the D5 is an automatic fail. Explain the paramount importance of low ISO DR, clearly he doesn't get it. :


----------



## zim (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Adelino said:
> ...



Well if the IQ is that significantly different (I have no practical experience of either) then the existing 6D sensor with 80D specs in a 6D body would still be a superb entry level FF. I think that little Megapixel bump and I'm imagining the tech surrounding the AF would favour the use of the 5D3 sensor, maybe the AF is irrelevant to the actual sensor I don't know.

I feel that the only way the 'new' 5DIV sensor tech would make it into a 6D2 would be after the 5DIV was out for at least a year to possibly half way through it's product cycle and that is too long a wait.


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## Luds34 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



zim said:


> I feel that the only way the 'new' 5DIV sensor tech would make it into a 6D2 would be after the 5DIV was out for at least a year to possibly half way through it's product cycle and that is too long a wait.



Using that logic, how do you explain the 6D having equal (technically a tiny bit better) sensor tech to the 5D3?

Realistically, the difference between the 6D and 5D lines is not the sensor tech. You jump to the 5D for those more "pro" features, build, ergonomics, etc. Also better performing specs like FPS, focus system, etc. Sensor tech just isn't changing that fast and I don't see Canon intentionally crippling a sensor. 

It comes down to the fact that a modern, full frame sensor is going to perform very well. It's all the bells and whistles you build around that sensor which will ultimately differentiate various cameras (along with available lens lineup).


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## johnhenry (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I had really high hopes for the ^D but it was a letdown.

Cheap feeling, slow AF and poor weather seals made me feel like I was taking a step down replacing my 7D with it.


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## zim (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Luds34 said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > I feel that the only way the 'new' 5DIV sensor tech would make it into a 6D2 would be after the 5DIV was out for at least a year to possibly half way through it's product cycle and that is too long a wait.
> ...



Because I think (hope) that the secret sauce to be used in the 5DIV sensor will be significantly better that they will want to keep that tech for their higher spec'd bodies for a while. If they role it out to every new body from now on then great, result! They will maintain differentials though so something else will have to give.
I just think that for an entry level FF a 5D3/6D sensor with 80D spec would be a very well balanced camera


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## dak723 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Luckily, in actual usage (as opposed to internet test sites) the pics you get from all the brands is about the same. And when you add in the Canon color algorithms and tonal curve algorithms, plus the Canon lenses, the Canon pics look as good if not better than the Sony and Nikon pics. Just my opinion, of course, having compared the 6D and the Sony A7 models.


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## j-nord (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dak723 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > zim said:
> ...


How dare you suggest that there is more involved in a DSLR system than just the sensor test chart numbers!


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Please describe the impact that, "...being whipped by both Nikon and Sony in the sensor tech area," has had on the ILC market share of Canon vs. Nikon and Sony. Also, please explain how the fact that Canon's mid-range APS-C 80D sensor delivers more low ISO DR than Nikon's flagship D5 sensor is consistent with 'being whipped' by Nikon in sensor tech. 

I suppose those can be considered rhetorical requests, since it's unlikely you can explain either, much less cogently.


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## ahsanford (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Neuro, let's climb above the 'But Canon's sensors are poopy!' cacophonous din for a moment: *will Canon nerf the 6D2 sensor compared to the 5D4 sensor like the way we expect they will with general features?*

We know* that Canon will nerf higher-end 5D4 features like AF system, burst rate, buffer size, build quality, 4K possibly, etc. from getting to the 6D2.

And we know* the 6D2 will more likely get more 'consumer wishlist' features that the 5D4 does not. (We don't know exactly which ones, but if WiFi, GPS, and a tilty flippy screen showed up on the 6D2 it would not stun us.)

_*With reasonable certainty based on prior offerings, prior segmentation, expected price, etc._

So the question stands: would Canon put the same sensor into two very different price point FF rigs? Or will they rely on consumer tropes of segmentation (i.e. pixel count) to more clearly delineate good/better/best like Sony or Nikon does?

Rephrasing my question in a snarky way: will the 6D2 outperform the 5D4 sensor in a single performance metric like the 6D1 did vs. the 5D3? 

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> *will Canon nerf the 6D2 sensor compared to the 5D4 sensor like the way we expect they will with general features?*



I don't think they'd necessarily do so...6D vs. 5DIII, 5DII vs. 1DsIII. Plenty of differentiators, different target markets.


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## Don Haines (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



ahsanford said:


> Neuro, let's climb above the 'But Canon's sensors are poopy!' cacophonous din for a moment: *will Canon nerf the 6D2 sensor compared to the 5D4 sensor like the way we expect they will with general features?*
> 
> We know* that Canon will nerf higher-end 5D4 features like AF system, burst rate, buffer size, build quality, 4K possibly, etc. from getting to the 6D2.
> 
> ...


I think you are right about the differentiation of the feature sets, but I would expect a better sensor.

Every camera that comes out has had time to improve the sensor on the ones that came before. The DR might be a touch better, the QE might move up, well size might grow, noise might be a bit better...... They are constantly doing research and surely something must be better on the latest camera, unless they use the same sensor


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## privatebydesign (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



There is a very marked difference in IQ between the two though. Many who know would argue the low iso RAW capability of the 1DS MkIII was not bettered by Canon until the 5DS/R.


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## dsut4392 (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

Dear Canon,
6D2 with
1) articulated screen
2) DPAF
3) better AF
4) same or better sensor DR.
My credit card is ready and waiting


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## privatebydesign (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I would expect an old $8,000 camera to have better build quality than a new $2,500 camera, build quality in my experience doesn't mean _'built like a tank'_, anybody that thinks that hasn't dropped a 1 series and broken the castings. To me build quality means higher end components, better boards and ribbon cables, higher quality materials and manufacture.

I don't believe it is anything to do with the _"color science that maps the raw colors from the sensor into colors"_, I believe it is the quality of the components and care and attention to manufacture that wring the last few percent of capability out of a tool, and that is why it cost what it did. It is easy to profile any camera to emulate the 1DS MkIII's colours but not the RAW editability.

Canon almost certainly knew when they built the 1DS MkIII that they were not going to replace it so they threw everything they could from the build quality department into it. Certainly I have found no compelling image quality reason to retire mine yet and I'd love a new toy :-(


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## JohanCruyff (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dsut4392 said:


> Dear Canon,
> 6D2 with
> 1) articulated screen
> 2) DPAF
> ...


+0.5 
My credit card is ready, but will wait until the early adopters perform the usual "real world tests", possible problems are fixed by Canon and the street price at announcement lowers a bit.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> The decision to merge the 1Ds/1D lines wasn't made for some time after the 1Ds was released (there was a follow on 1D Mark IV). At least there were no rumors of merging the 1Ds/1D lines at the time of the 1DsIII being released (that I recall.)



Your usual impeccable logic. : Yeah, Canon just makes this stuff up as they go along, there's no real plan or roadmap...


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 25, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

So the 5DIV is on sale and the boffins at Canon are hard at work on the 6D MKII. My prediction is this camera will take on the Nikon D750 with a similar spec. to the 80D but full-frame, at a price point of the out going 5D MKIII. Then Canon will slot-in a new entry level FF camera possibly a FF version of the 750/760D with 19 point AF at a similar price point to the current 6D. Both will have flippy screens.


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## scyrene (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



neuroanatomist said:


> Pebbles said:
> 
> 
> > All this innovation is leaving me dizzy. First two new video creator kits and now possibly a new nameplate somewhere next year. While other companies waste time improving sensors, Canon are leaving them far behind.
> ...



Not to mention, everyone agrees the sensors in the latest few models *have* been considerable improvements.


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



dilbert said:


> Canon don't have that luxury. They're being whipped by ...Nikon ... in the sensor tech area.



By which metrics? The ability to select >400k iso in camera? A slight advantage in DR above 2500ISO?

Have they designed any sensors other than the D5's (which hardly "whips" the competing canons) recently?


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## addola (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

I would like to have a swivel-tilty touch screen like the 80D. In fact, like many here, I want to have 80D with an FF sensor and maybe the ability to shoot 4K. 

Also, add another SD slot. There's no reason Nikon's D7000's have dual slots, and my FF Canon 6D doesn't!


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## Luds34 (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



jeffa4444 said:


> So the 5DIV is on sale and the boffins at Canon are hard at work on the 6D MKII. My prediction is this camera will take on the Nikon D750 with a similar spec. to the 80D but full-frame, at a price point of the out going 5D MKIII. Then Canon will slot-in a new entry level FF camera possibly a FF version of the 750/760D with 19 point AF at a similar price point to the current 6D. Both will have flippy screens.



Is this just an estimated guess? Or do you have some knowledge that points to this? Do you think there is enough market/product differentiation for a 6D mark II and a camera below it in the full frame space? 

I think at first glance the idea of an entry level, even Rebel like full frame makes sense. But then when you start to account for the cost of full frame glass and I see it less so.


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Luds34 said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > So the 5DIV is on sale and the boffins at Canon are hard at work on the 6D MKII. My prediction is this camera will take on the Nikon D750 with a similar spec. to the 80D but full-frame, at a price point of the out going 5D MKIII. Then Canon will slot-in a new entry level FF camera possibly a FF version of the 750/760D with 19 point AF at a similar price point to the current 6D. Both will have flippy screens.
> ...


 
Yes, there is room! Like the 6D was an updated 5D II, it is possible that the 8D will be an updated 6D (cheap full frame, D6x0 competitor) and that the 6D2 will be an updated 5D3 (intermediate full frame, D7x0 competitor). Who knows?


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## Josh Denver (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

If Canon needs a new line it's a DSLR that's designed specifically for video users. As they're the most displeased from Canon right now. 

A Low megapixel count (12-18) would give little to no crop, best high ISO performance, DPAF, C-LOG, and all XC10 features like peaking, waveform, zebras, great audio quality (with the top XLR module) 4K 10bit HDMI out (like XC10), and a tiltable LCD. If Canon doesn't want to imitate, they can leave it in an external look of a 5D body with a tilt screen and XLR connection on top, and decent mirror stills capability and ship it with a zucoto-quality LCD loup, again like XC10. 

5DC is a new nameplate isn't it?


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Josh Denver said:


> If Canon needs a new line it's a DSLR that's designed specifically for video users.



I'm not a video guy, so forgive the question if it's a silly one, but why would video users want a mirror? 

Aside from software and the tilt screen, what changes from the 1Dc would you like to see in an SLR designed specifically for video (as opposed to the shared design with the 1Dx)?


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## GMCPhotographics (Sep 26, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > The decision to merge the 1Ds/1D lines wasn't made for some time after the 1Ds was released (there was a follow on 1D Mark IV). At least there were no rumors of merging the 1Ds/1D lines at the time of the 1DsIII being released (that I recall.)
> ...



I was just musing...wouldn't it be awesome of Canon designed a sensor that could scale it's resolution with it's FPS. They could make a 50mp 5 fps 1D series....that could scale the resolution down while bumping up the FPS, while the data through put would stay the same. Say a 20.2mp @ 14fps, 31.4mp @ 9fps and 56.6mp at 5 fps. THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!! and a true 1D/1Ds unification.


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## Josh Denver (Sep 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



3kramd5 said:


> Josh Denver said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon needs a new line it's a DSLR that's designed specifically for video users.
> ...



The mirror is wanted for stills of course. If Canon wants to forgoe the whole concept of hybrid and go pure video then it would have an EVF and ND filter wheel in the mirror place. 

But Canon is not so radical is changes/products. 

There's a big market for sub 5000$ large sensor 4K canon with Clog and swivly screen and some firmware touches. It's the most missing DSLR from Canon's line I believe. For sports they gave 1Dxii, 5ds resolution, 5d all rounder, 6d/ii entry ff, then cheap sports 7dii, 80d all rounder, 750d entry, 1300D super entry. I mean nothing left but video shooters here right? 

A FF/S35 EF Mount XC10? A 12-18mp 5DC? 

The 1DC question is a great one. What we want that's not on the 1Dc:

-5D form factor/size and most of all price
-DPAF & touch 
-Tilty LCD
-firmware stuff like peaking/zebras/waveform

we'd be some happy campers shooting video on Canon glass, using it as A cams to compete with the GH4/A7 place, and as B cams for C100/300s, etc 

Canon really has no small B cam right now (a B cam has to match so C-LOG is paramount). Just the 1Dc which is far from small and xc20 which is a 1'' fixed lens package for doc/news.


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*

But a purpose built video camera has zero need for a mirror. On the other hand a purpose built video camera would have great live view framing, and thus be fully capable of producing stills.

A mirror seems antithetical to being designed specifically for video (unless of course the mirror funnels light to the sensor rather than away from it ). Without one, the reduced volume could be used for any number of things...improved cooling, internal storage, etc.


----------



## Josh Denver (Sep 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



3kramd5 said:


> But a purpose built video camera has zero need for a mirror. On the other hand a purpose built video camera would have great live view framing, and thus be fully capable of producing stills.
> 
> A mirror seems antithetical to being designed specifically for video (unless of course the mirror funnels light to the sensor rather than away from it ). Without one, the reduced volume could be used for any number of things...improved cooling, internal storage, etc.



That is true. That's why Canon ''video'' cameras are all mirrorless. XC10,XC20,C100,C100II,C300,C300II,C500,C700 and their small chip camcorders too. All rely in EVFs and/or LCDs. 

But, the combination that's made when you put great video ability with a FULLY capable stills camera is a killer one. A 5D + cinema grade 4K and features would be just what we want. That combination of a fully fledged FF camera with an OVF and a cinema camera, are what still makes the 5D so popular and the defacto standard even when so many only-video-mirrorless options are out there. 

I'd never want to shoot stills with an XC10 or a C100 (though it's the best 2mp camera money can buy). And Canon are not making a FF mirrorless camera soon, so our hope is that they make a video oriented DSLR. A 5D most likely because of it's price bracket, and video reputation, and because they are splitting the 5D line into specialized models. This move would make a lot of sense and would bring Canon back on the front of the video world with a 5D. (The 5DIV is not that camera because of the 1.64x crop and lack of C log, mainly the former).


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 27, 2016)

*Re: EOS 6D Mark II & New DSLR Body in 2017*



Josh Denver said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > But a purpose built video camera has zero need for a mirror. On the other hand a purpose built video camera would have great live view framing, and thus be fully capable of producing stills.
> ...



Gotcha, fair enough.


----------

