# Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?



## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2011)

So far, we've heard a lot of feedback, mainly complaints, from people who are _not_ currently using 1-series bodies, and don't _seriously_ plan to get one. Sort of like people who say, "I was going to buy a Ferrari California, but now I'm not since they didn't put a V12 in it," and then just keep on driving their Toyota Camry, or at the most take out a 5-year loan on a newer model of the same car.

I bet many of those individuals were hoping, secretly or openly, for a camera with everything (FF, ultrahigh MP, superfast fps, excellent AF, top build) costing only slightly more than the 5DII. Or they were hoping for features in the 1-series that would obviously trickle down into lesser bodies. 

But, with a few exceptions, we haven't seen much from current 1-series users. I would think those are the people to whom Canon listened when designing the 1D X. One important factor - many of them, especially 1D IV users, can add a 1D X and keep their current 1D IV for those times when they'll be limited by focal length and need the 1.3x crop and/or the ability to AF af f/8 (with one point, meaning static subjects only).

So, if you currently own/use a 1-series body, what do you think of the 1D X, and will you be getting one?


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## Pedro Ramones (Oct 23, 2011)

absolutely right ! i also believe most peolple just talk and never even had their hands on a 1 series body, to start with ! i still have a 1 V HS a 1DsMKII and a 1DMKIV...some people talk like if cameras are some sort of user costumisable itens like home computers !! all that technoly comes with a cost and itÂ´s absolutely NOT just like adding a few( or a lot) of line codes and then the cameras does it all ! i have always complained about the absence of MultiExposure and finally rhe 1 D X has it! still no NTFS partition on cards, but at leaste the 12 minute cut was explained. i am very happy with what it offers but surelu would like to try before i buy,even if on papaer it has all i need...or want LOL Full Frame, fast shooting and reasonable video. i completely understand the 18 MP limit, but it also would not come as a surprise if Canon was to deliver a 24,32,36 or even more MP model one of these days,as i still think the 1 D X is very reporter/action oriented. so just wait and enjoy this one, while you can...and IF you can


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## sjprg (Oct 23, 2011)

As a 1DSIII owner and landscape photographer I am still looking for Canon to give us at least the equivelent of the Lieca S2 as the replacement for the 1DSIII! The 1D X will be a great camera for the PJs and probably the wedding photographers also. If i was starting from scratch, with no cameras at all I would probably buy the 1D X although it is not really the camera I would prefer. (Hassys cost too much) Canon has the technology to give us 50/60 MP at 16 bit @ 1 FPS which is what the landscape shooter wants and needs, and I beleive that the EOS mount will at least support the S2 format and still allow us the use of existing lenses. Canon knows about the PJ market but I don't think they realize how many landscapers would jump on a 10K MF camera. Pentax is an Iffy company, and Minolta has disappeared from the MF scene.
Paul


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## moreorless (Oct 23, 2011)

sjprg said:


> As a 1DSIII owner and landscape photographer I am still looking for Canon to give us at least the equivelent of the Lieca S2 as the replacement for the 1DSIII! The 1D X will be a great camera for the PJs and probably the wedding photographers also. If i was starting from scratch, with no cameras at all I would probably buy the 1D X although it is not really the camera I would prefer. (Hassys cost too much) Canon has the technology to give us 50/60 MP at 16 bit @ 1 FPS which is what the landscape shooter wants and needs, and I beleive that the EOS mount will at least support the S2 format and still allow us the use of existing lenses. Canon knows about the PJ market but I don't think they realize how many landscapers would jump on a 10K MF camera. Pentax is an Iffy company, and Minolta has disappeared from the MF scene.
> Paul



EOS/EF lenses would work on a sensor the size of the S2?

My guess would be the part of the reason for the 1Ds being phased out would be that with the 645D around they want to maxmise the size/cost advanatges of a FF high megapixel camera.


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## Nitroman (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm REALLY disappointed with Canon's announcement about the 1DX replacing the 1Ds range.

I'm a pro photographer who shoots portraits, landscapes, people, tourism, 360 degree panoramas and video. I've been using Canon for the last five years since I switched from Nikon when they claimed they had no plans for full frame cameras. I own the 1Ds2, 1Ds3, the 5D and two 5D2's that i use for video. More fool Nikon for lying and losing my custom but that's another story ;D 

As i see it, the 1DX is a replacement for 1D4 users, but i'd imagine most wildlife / sports photographers will miss the extended range the 1.3x crop factor used to give their telephotos. Great fast fps, great high iso performance but less megapixels than my existing 1Ds3 is diabolical.

I'd don't know how feasible it could have been, but I'd have liked Canon to have released the 1DX as full frame 30mp+ pro body. If it had a min of 5fps, quality AF and an electronically masked viewfinder / image (and 18mp) for when the extended 1.3 (or 1.6x) crop was needed, i'd have been happy. I'd have thought this design spec would have been perfectly possible whilst maintaining the high fps. 

I like my two 5D2s for video. To me, the larger size of the 1D bodies makes them less appealing for dslr video use. The new 1DX apparently has reduced moire which is encouraging but sounds like it will still be apparent which is also a shame and doesn't bode well for the 5D3.

I won't be upgrading my 1Ds3 for a similar priced camera (Â£5300) with fewer mp. I've waited four years for the new 1Ds3 replacement but to me, the 1DX is a step back. :'(

If Canon release a medium format camera with 40mp+, I won't be buying it as it would need a whole load of new Canon MF pro quality glass and i've spent Â£12K on 35mm L lenses. I just wanted a newer and better 1Ds3 !!!

So, all in all, I see this new camera as a massive let down for me and the work I do. Time will tell if Canon have an alternative in the pipeline that meets with my pro requirements.


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## wockawocka (Oct 23, 2011)

I own a 1D4, 2 x 1Ds3 and a 5D2.

I'm primarily a wedding photographer (47 this year, 35 already booked for next) who also does a significant amount of portraits.

For me I was perfectly happy with the 1Ds3 apart from a few things which I'll list below in the order or most important:

Rubbish LCD (Biggest hinderance to me)
High ISO performance
CPU speed (buffer emptying speed)
Shutter Noise

To counter this, I used the 1D4 which addressed all of the above....except it wasn't full frame.

You could say it was like dating a hot girl who was a psychopath.

For me the 1Dx is the (almost) perfect camera and indirectly it's beneficial in other areas.

I can sell my 24L prime and I can start using my 24-105L in a church by bumping the ISO.
I also now effectively can effectively replace my 24-70 and I may not need to carry around my 70-200L as much.

Thing is, I shoot at 2.8 because I have to, not because I want to. A lot of the time I'm at an angle to the bride and groom and have to decide which one is in sharp focus.

Also, I don't need to upgrade my PC for another 3 years to handle 40mp Raws.

What I don't like is the drop in 3mp - I would of expected them to stay at 21mp and even though it is ony a small percentage smaller overall I do like my images to breathe and to have the option to crop later.

What worries me though is the ISO 100 performance. The 1Ds3 was totally unbeatable and because of this fear I'll be keeping hold of the 1Ds3 for portraits.

I never use the 5D2 apart from some small scale video and as a backup camera for my assistant. Even though the 5D2 shares the same sensor (apparently) to the 1Ds3 it's output isn't the same, colours are too warm and in my hands the weight is unbalanced with any serious glass attached to it. You can't push the RAW files anywhere near as much as the 1Ds3.

Going back to the 1Dx, all I wanted was better iso performance and a better screen. I would of been happy with that and Canon kinda overdelivered. Let's hope they did a good job. I'm one of 200 going to the Pro Solutions private hands on this coming Wednesday.


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## Pedro Ramones (Oct 23, 2011)

i agree with 1DsMKIII owners that are a bit disapointed, but i am absolutely sure Canon has not ended the 1Ds line up,because they never said they did ! and i don`t believe Canon will jump in another direction, at least, without the EF lenses, be it a MF or mirrorless camera.
i waited and awaited and waited for the 1DsMKIII replacement,but got to a point the 1DsMKII was gettin`really old and decided to go for the 1DMKIV and save a couple thousand euros,but image quality fares not better than the old 1DsMKII horse !...so i really hope that Canon replaces the 1DsMKIII soon, or i will have to dispatch the 1DMKIV and go for one of the last 1DsMKIII


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2011)

Pedro Ramones said:


> i am absolutely sure Canon has not ended the 1Ds line up,because they never said they did !



Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but just to clarify, the Canon press release stated, "_As the new leader in Canonâ€™s arsenal of professional DSLRs, the EOS-1D X will be a high-speed multimedia juggernaut *replacing both the EOS-1Ds Mark III* and EOS-1D Mark IV models in Canonâ€™s lineup_."


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## Stu_bert (Oct 24, 2011)

I have a pair of second hand 1Ds MK III which I bought in preference to the 5D MK IIs.

What I wanted in the 1Dx is better high iso but only required up to around ISO 6400 (the MK III is showing it's age a little), better AF, and better Dynamic range. FPS is fine, just the ability to drive it at better speeds when using higher ISO.

So to be honest, the only downside is the f/8 AF removal, which I use on the 500mm f/4 with MK II 2xTC. To date, this has been sparingly, but the 2x MK III with good clean mid-range ISO (3200 to 6400 range) and thus f/11 would be a very useful combination I think.

18MP - it loses me 10% on the x and y, really nothing to worry about if the IQ is substantially better.

Having video in the same body is nice - being able to flip between stills and video without changing lenses will be useful (previously I used the 7D for this but that means a 3rd body). Articulated screen would also be better for video when there is little subject movement, but everyone is different.

Like most people I guess, I will wait to see what else Canon announces in the next 6 months, and of course to see how good the 1Dx is in comparison to the MK III and IV. The dilemma is around wanting 2 bodies with compatible accessories (batteries/chargers in the main). A 1Dx would go nice with either a MK IV or retaining a MK III, but then an updated 7D and 5D MK III would be I think significantly cheaper, allowing me to pick up the 200-400mm.

Bottom line - 1Dx is a good, solid replacement, and depending on what else Canon offers in the mid-range, may still end up in my bag.


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## rocketdesigner (Oct 24, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> So far, we've heard a lot of feedback, mainly complaints, from people who are _not_ currently using 1-series bodies, and don't _seriously_ plan to get one. Sort of like people who say, "I was going to buy a Ferrari California, but now I'm not since they didn't put a V12 in it," and then just keep on driving their Toyota Camry, or at the most take out a 5-year loan on a newer model of the same car.



Nice elitist attitude. 
So I guess Camry owners can't have opinions with regard to how the new Ferrari will effect their next Camry?
This IS an opinion message board, remember?
[ok, lets hear your real snappy comeback...)


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## Stu_bert (Oct 24, 2011)

rocketdesigner said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > So far, we've heard a lot of feedback, mainly complaints, from people who are _not_ currently using 1-series bodies, and don't _seriously_ plan to get one. Sort of like people who say, "I was going to buy a Ferrari California, but now I'm not since they didn't put a V12 in it," and then just keep on driving their Toyota Camry, or at the most take out a 5-year loan on a newer model of the same car.
> ...



Yes you can - there are enough threads on this site to cover that. The OP asked specifically for those who already have one of the Pro bodies. If you check his sig. he does not and is therefore asking from those that do.

Sorry, don't do snappy at 2am


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## Meh (Oct 24, 2011)

Stu_bert said:


> rocketdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Well... neuro did ask for those opinions along with a smattering of a slam against those expressing opinions that may not intend to buy one. He could have left out the whole Ferrari/Camry thing of course it would be less fun if he did. Neuro gets some credit since we all know he's in the camp of those not currently using a 1 series as well as being in the camp of those that may in fact buy a 1DX. I am in both those camps as well but for me not likely a 2012 purchase unless the retail price turns out to be below $6k which is doubtful.

So neuro, in your analogy was the Camry equivalent to any particular level of body or would even a 5D/5D2 be included. Or maybe you were only taking a shot at people who talk like they want one but can't actually afford it? Sorry, you may not have meant it but your comments come across a little elitist. You might get credit for your honest viewpoints and credible statements about buying the 1DX as soon as it's available but you're also on record as stating that any piece of gear you want is "only X number of hours of consulting work" to you.

Great idea though to ask for more 1D users to weigh in.


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## macfly (Oct 24, 2011)

I guess I've already said my piece on this, but since you asked I'll add my definitive feelings on it here.

I cancelled my standing order for the 1Dx and have sent my 1Ds Mklll to get a full overhaul and new sensor (scratched during cleaning in the field) to get me from here to the Nikon/Sony 36MP camera. 

I knew things weren't good when Canon regressed so badly from the G10 to the G12, and feared that they might do the same with the EOS, and they did. They filled it full of stuff I don't need, and took away what I do. Canon have gone in wrong direction for me, so unless there is some surprise high rez ~40mp camera to come I'll be leaving the EOS 1 line behind for the first time since 1991. However I built my career on Nikons, so I don't feel bad about going back, and if Nikon don't make what I want then I'll buy who does. 

Personally I really prefer the form factor of a 35mm EOS to anything, and my dream camera would be a ~45mp EOS. What I don't get is they already showed they know how to put 100mp on a sensor, so make like Nike and just do it!


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## Orangutan (Oct 24, 2011)

macfly said:


> and if Nikon don't make what I want then I'll buy who does.
> 
> What I don't get is they already showed they know how to put 100mp on a sensor, so make like Nike and just do it!



macfly, I'd like to make a couple uninformed guesses/observations.

1. Enough market research has been done by Canon and Nikon (and Sony) that probably everyone sees the market the same way now. That wasn't the case until a year or two ago, but the 5D2 and Nikon D3S seemed to have told everyone where the divisions lie. You can expect that whatever high MP camera Nikon puts out, Canon is likely to do about the same thing, give or take. Canon's 5D2 replacement may not be 36MP as the D800 is rumored to be, but it'll be damned close. Who knows, maybe higher? Perhaps that'll do you, or maybe you need a 1D quality body. It'll be a few months, at least, before that part of the market shakes out. Canon probably isn't in a hurry to replace the 5D2 until it's got some real competition.

2. If the D1X needs two processors to do 18MP at 12fps, that same hardware will be needed to do 6fps on a 36MP sensor, or 3fps with one processor. My guess is that Canon doesn't believe "the market" wants a high MP camera that does less than 5fps, so they may need to tweak the processor from the 1DX to push that many bits. Think of the 1DX as the "dress rehearsal" for that 36MP camera you want. 

Apologies to Neuro for the thread digression.


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## aldvan (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't think that asking just for opinions from people already owning a 1D series is a matter of elitism. Internet forums are full of third hand opinions, of harsh criticism by people that know something just because they had read other people opinions or just because it is easy to appear as great experts hiding behind the Internet virtuality.
Actually I could, now, sell myself as owner of a Phase One, gathering here and there some information, and contributing to the birth of some urban legends... That happens on cars, bikes, cameras, planes, boats etc forums and it is one of the weakest point of the Internet.
By the way, I'm the owner of a (second hand) 1Ds MkIII and of 5D MkII.
Apart from the fact that I can't now invest in a new top range camera, particularly since I'm very happy about my present equipment, I have to say that the 1Dx appears to be a nice piece of technology but it is not what I need. A very cool and chic present opinion is to despise the need for very high resolution. That could be true for some kind of photography but not for other ones. Obviously nobody will accept high resolution if that means high noise or bad IQ, but I think that 18 Mpx are nevertheless not enough in many situations, when you need to crop your image for composition requirements or because you need, for professional/scientifical needs, to catch very small details.
After four years from 1Ds MkIII presentation, I'm sure that Canon could issue some more Mpx , improving, at the same time, IQ. The problem is that the World is going more and more generic and it is difficult to invest for very specific target. So you get a bit of everything, also of features you don't need. For instance, I don't need high fps, or a huge amount of AF points, I need as many Mpx as I can and the best pixel quality I can.
Conclusion. The 1Dx is a great camera for many people, but not for me...


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## ricker (Oct 24, 2011)

neuroanatomist -

I rarely visit forums anymore, the negativity bums me out. But I've owned 4 1D bodies beginning with the 1DII and have also owned the 20D & 7D. A local pro portrait photographer near me still uses the 1DII so it can still bring the goods if leveraging its strengths. Below is a long winded journey as to how I settled on placing a 1D X order.

Since I carry one body, I'm always looking for one that will satisfy as many of my needs as possible, from sports and landscapes to portraiture. Staying somewhat current also keeps the re-sale value relatively high. My least favorite of the bunch was the 1DII which had very unintuitive controls. Despite the reputation, I LOVED the 1DIII and never had any AF issues with it. When a very affordable 1DsIII came along I gave it a shot and was blown away by the full frame sensor but it was noisy in low light and the buffer filled way too quickly for any type of action photography. Thus, I returned to the 1D IV and have been very happy with it. 

Recently I've been forced to replace a Canon 16-35mm lens and have been torn between buying another or getting the new 8-15 fisheye. The 16-35 is so-so on a APS-H sensor, it just doesn't wow me like it should so I've been resistant to pull the trigger. 

Along comes the 1D X with the speed and ISO of the 1D and the sensor of the 1Ds, for me it's like a perfect blend of specs. Looking forward to the return of 16mm on full frame. I don't see the X as an incremental improvement like some. The only thing I'll miss is the SD card slot which I normally use with an Eye-Fi card.

Really looking forward to getting my hands on it.


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## Quackator (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm thrilled - this thing does everything I hoped for, provided that reality matches paper form.
Certainly two of these babies will find their way to me.

I am delighted to see it weighs in at 18 MP and not more.

Yes, I would have hoped for a lower price, of course. 
But it's a tool and tax deductable. So what....


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## kennykodak (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm a full time studio owner. I primarily do weddings, portraits and light commercial. I'm going to take a chance on this new camera. the full frame with low noise appeals to me. I wish it still had the sdhc slot though. For a while I was using a digital Hasselblad. I'm no longer wowed by the number of megapixels, just the quality. I don' believe that loss of 3 mp's from the 1Ds 3 will be noticable. Time will tell. Mine is on order.


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## John Thomas (Oct 24, 2011)

Have a 1Ds MkII among other Canons. Shooting photojournalism mostly in low light - churches, monastery interiors etc. -- see different works at http://is.gd/spiritual_pic -- I'm very excited about new model.

However, I really wonder if the specs on paper matches the reality without any significant (untold) drawback. Also, I would want to see some real, *untouched* RAW files from Canon 1D X shot at high ISO.

Waiting to see what the ones which will have hands on experience will say.


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## jesrodmar (Oct 24, 2011)

Pedro Ramones said:


> ...but i am absolutely sure Canon has not ended the 1Ds line up...



I absolutely agree with you.


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## pwp (Oct 24, 2011)

I shoot 1D IV which for my work is the finest camera I have ever had the pleasure to work with. My first 1-Series was an EOS 1n film body which just knocked my socks off, then the original 1Ds and I've since travelled the upgrade path, though fortunately and kind of accidentally sidestepping the 1D3 along the way.

1-Series cameras just rock. I loved the description of them feeling like they were carved out of a solid lump of Unobtanium. In dynamic shooting situations the performance and handling helps me deliver shots I would have previously thought impossible to achieve. The ultra responsiveness, configurable 45 point AF, weather sealing and highly evolved ergonomics put 1-Series Canons in a class of their own. There is a big price premium but for my style of work it's worth every single penny. The 1D IV just keeps delivering personally satisfying images to very happy clients. It simply wouldn't happen in the same way with a 5DII.

I've test driven 5DII and was extremely impressed with the files, but the handling and performance just didn't cut it for me. If I did slower more considered work, I'd buy a 5DII in a heartbeat.

It's whatever floats your boat. If a 60D delivers the shots you need, then that's the Canon for you. 

For me it's 1-Series all the way. My order for the X was placed the day the specs were announced. 

Paul Wright


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 24, 2011)

Meh said:


> Well... neuro did ask for those opinions along with a smattering of a slam against those expressing opinions that may not intend to buy one. He could have left out the whole Ferrari/Camry thing of course *it would be less fun* if he did.



Which was the point of the analogy, and bear in mind, it was written by someone who drives a 5 year old Subaru Outback, thinks a Camry is just fine but wanted more cargo room, and can't really understand why anyone would _need_ a Ferrrari to get from point A to point B. But then, I'm perfectly ok with someone 'needing' a 1-series to take pictures. 

Aldvan summed it up rather nicely. Yes, I'm in the market for a 1D X, and regardless, Canon is getting at least $6.8K of my money one way or another (either a 1D X or a supertele prime), and yes, I'm serious about that and have cash in hand (well, in a safe, to be honest) to cover a 1D X, just waiting for the preorder to go up on B&H. Yes, I have lots of opinions about the 1D X, as do many people who own 5DII's, 7D's, xxD's, xxxD's, and even P&S cameras - and those opinions are all valid. 

But the point is that if Canon were going to listen to customers' input in designing the next 1-series, they shouldn't be paying much attention to me or anyone else who doesn't own a 1-series body, but rather, to the customers who've demonstrated that they are 1-series customers, unequivocally - i.e. by owning one already. So, the idea of the thread is to canvas the opinions of those people on how well Canon actual listened, and how well the announced camera will meet their needs.

So far, opinions are split, consistent with the axiom that you can't please all of the people all of the time. But there are some interesting observations that I haven't read in the other threads on this issue, quite likely because they are issues that may not occur most people who don't have practical experience with 1-series bodies, e.g. ricker's comment on dual CF cards and the loss of Eye-Fi support (but, ricker - would an Eye-Fi-supporting SD to CF adapter solve that issue?).

Thanks to all the 1-series owners who've offered their opinions so far - I appreciate the input, and hope others do as well. More viewpoints are certainly welcome and appreciated!


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## wockawocka (Oct 24, 2011)

Until I owned a 1D body I had a 5D2. I always looked at the 1D bodies from the eyes of someone whose camera was amazing as it was and I 'could see' what the benefits were and as such was unfairly critical of that line.

Then I bought one and it made the 5D2 like a toy in comparison.


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## macfly (Oct 24, 2011)

> More viewpoints are certainly welcome and appreciated!



As a 20 year EOS veteran, a published photographer and a CPS member since that program started I can tell you that nobody at Canon ever stepped forward to ask my opinion on what the next OS should be. I have no idea where they get their market research, but it would be nice if they actually asked us what we'd like. I love the EOS form factor, but I won't but a 1Dx simply because it doesn't do what I need or want. I want a ~45mp sensor that has incredible 645 beating quaility as 100iso. I always light my subjects, so don't care about high iso, a useable max 1600 is just fine for me.


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## awinphoto (Oct 24, 2011)

macfly said:


> > More viewpoints are certainly welcome and appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> As a 20 year EOS veteran, a published photographer and a CPS member since that program started I can tell you that nobody at Canon ever stepped forward to ask my opinion on what the next OS should be. I have no idea where they get their market research, but it would be nice if they actually asked us what we'd like. I love the EOS form factor, but I won't but a 1Dx simply because it doesn't do what I need or want. I want a ~45mp sensor that has incredible 645 beating quaility as 100iso. I always light my subjects, so don't care about high iso, a useable max 1600 is just fine for me.



I understand where you're coming from... Like you, I've been using the EOS system for almost 15 years or so give or take, published and had my photography shown on TV and the Olympics, and a CPS member. I have received a few different surveys from canon asking what I was in the market to buy, my opinions or whatever... I get them maybe once ever 6-12 months or so. I dont know if they come from Canon CPS or some other marketing dept but it is what it is... While I would have liked to see a better (higher MP) sensor in the 1dx, this camera isn't one I'd be buying. While I like using the best gear I can afford, I'm a minimalist at heart and had beaten into me since young the concept of needing vs wanting... I want to buy a 1dx (or 1d series in general) but I dont need it for my clients and my work so I get by with what I can. 

I second neuros thoughts about those who complain about the 1dx being those who are not really in the market for a 1d camera but worries about what it could mean towards other "lower" cameras... Until I see directly how other cameras get affected (when the 5d3 and 70D and 7D2 comes out), I wont lose one minute of sleep worrying.


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## pwp (Oct 24, 2011)

For goodness sake...it's horses for courses.

If your photographic needs are fully satisfied with an iPhone 4S, then that's perfect. 

If a 500D gives you that "OMG this is amazing" response then you have bought the right camera.

If like me you value ultra performance in dynamic shooting situations, using high iso's to their practical limits and so on, then 1-Series EOS is a no brainer. My MkIV definately gives me that "OMG this is amazing" response on almost a daily basis, the proceeds of which feed the family, puts the kids through school and gives me a lifestyle that I once only dreamed about.

If you need 40 plus Mp and silky magnificent files at 100iso then look to medium format. There's some brilliant kit out there, and the prices are quickly becoming more competitive.

One Canon body simply cannot be all things to all people, but 1Ds3, 1DMkIV and without doubt the big X dude definitely tick a lot of boxes.

Paul Wright


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## rocketdesigner (Oct 25, 2011)

aldvan said:


> I don't think that asking just for opinions from people already owning a 1D series is a matter of elitism.



...and neither do I, in that context.

But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.


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## 100 (Oct 25, 2011)

rocketdesigner said:


> But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.



English is not my native language, so maybe I'm missing something, but I just hear someone (neuroanatomist) saying, hey, we heard the crowd and they're in title to their layman opinion, but I like hear what the experts (as far as 1D or 1Ds) are thinking about the new tool. Thatâ€™s not â€œelitist and discriminatoryâ€ where I live.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 25, 2011)

rocketdesigner said:


> But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.



I'm sorry you feel that way - the intent of the Camry/Ferrari analogy was humor, not elitism, and I apologize for offending you. 

But the question was honest and the limitation was intentional. If I was interested in a T3i, would it not be legitimate to ask the opinion of owners of that particular body? Why are some reviews on B&H marked 'verified buyer'? I presume because that lends credence to the review. Given that the 1D X hasn't been released yet, owners/users of 1-series cameras would seem the closest approximation. 

Probably I should have more clearly specified users, not owners, since a camera could as easily be studio owned. 

But hopefully you can appreciate the difference in perspective. For someone who doesn't own a 1-series, the 1D X is an upgrade almost no matter what (ignoring the obvious 3 MP drop from the 5DII's sensor), so it becomes about how well the 1D X stacks up against an imaginary ideal. For a current 1-series, the perspective, I hope, would be closer to how the 1D X stacks up from a more practical standpoint, compared to current needs met (or not) by the 1-series. 

Note that while I've offered opinions on the 1D X in many other threads, I haven't done so here - I don't meet my own qualifications.


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## RexGRP (Oct 25, 2011)

What I'd like to see in this impressive 1-DX is a quieter camera. I use 1-D MK ll bodies for newspaper work and I can't get over how freaking LOUD the cameras are. The noise from the shutter is really obnoxious.

I'm thrilled limiting the sensor to 18 mp results in ( hopefully ) clean, very high ISO. I'm sure Canon will manufacture a super-high mp body for those who don't need speed. 

I'll be looking for better flash metering, improved color, and advances in off-center AF tracking.

Sure wish I could order the camera without video for $1000 less. Asking the boss to spend $13,600 on a couple bodies for one photographer is a challenge.


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## Meh (Oct 25, 2011)

100 said:


> rocketdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.
> ...



This issue that drew complaints was not the request for comments from 1-series owners/users. That was a great topic that neuro started. The part that drew complaints was the Camry analogy that implied (although probably not what neuro intended, he has since said it was an attempt at humour) that most of the members commenting on the 1DX up to that point had never used a 1-series body and probably wouldn't ever buy a 1DX because they couldn't afford it even if they wanted to. It came across as elitist because everyone knows neuro can afford a 1DX and will be getting one as soon as it's available. Most of us will just stare dreamily at it in the window until the kids are done college (or drop out and we liquidate their college fund).

It was an attempt at humour and we've all said things that came out wrong or were interpreted in ways that were not intended. Neuro's comments and all the sharing of knowledge from testing lenses, micro-adjusting every lens and sharing his experience, and proving us wrong with tack sharp images from lenses we complain about are valuable contributions to the forum. So he has lot's of credit stored up to be forgiven for the odd failed humour... even Seinfeld bombed every now and then. 

And thanks to all the 1-series users who have contributed their comments. Appreciated by everyone I'm sure.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 25, 2011)

I have owned a 1D MK II and a 1D MK III. I skipped the 1D MK IV because I wanted even better low light performance than my 5D MK II gives, and the MK IV doesn't do that.

The other thing I liked about the 1D series was the 1.3 crop, and the abiliity t0 AF with a TC resulting in a f/8 lens.

As far as FF goes, 18mp is enough as long as I get good low liight performance, but I will still want a crop camera for long telephoto shots, and thats a bit disappointing.

I was looking to pre order one at Adorama this morning, but they were not yet setup.


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## macfly (Oct 25, 2011)

> If you need 40 plus Mp and silky magnificent files at 100iso then look to medium format. There's some brilliant kit out there, and the prices are quickly becoming more competitive.



That isn't really the point, I use MF cameras for most jobs, (today I tried the new Phase One Mamiya 645 with the leaf shutter lenses & 80mp back for the first time - amazing!) but they all require a team to run, and are slow to operate. Also I'd never take one away for the weekend.

I absolutley love the speed and ease of handling of the EOS, it gives me a freedom none of the medium formats can come close to, and allows me to catch those magic moments with far great accuracy. What I'd love is the ability to catch those moments at ~45mp. 

What else do I need, can I plead for?

4-5fps, minimum of a 25 frame buffer, clean 1600iso and I'd be in heaven.

I'll happily pay 10-12k for that, because thats what it's worth to me.


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## Tayvin (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm glad Canon is trying to compete with Nikon in the sports world, but have they given up on the 100ISO shooters? I would love to see Canon announce a FF camera without an anti-aliasing filter and with a chip that can ACTUALLY support the high megapixels without compromising image quality. Am I asking for too much in this prosumer world?


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## michaelbinary (Oct 25, 2011)

What is it with all these people wanted APS sensors because they give a "cropped" image. ??
A given lens on an APS or a full frame body will produce form an identical image on whatever sensor is at the focal plane. The images are identical. period. Its just that the APS sensor will record less of the image than a FF sensor would.

So take the FF image and crop it in PS to whatever size you want. You will still end up with a better APS sized image than an APS sized sensor would give you.


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## Edwin Herdman (Oct 25, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> I bet many of those individuals were hoping, secretly or openly, for a camera with everything (FF, ultrahigh MP, superfast fps, excellent AF, top build) costing only slightly more than the 5DII. Or they were hoping for features in the 1-series that would obviously trickle down into lesser bodies.


As it turns out, an attempt to discredit most of those who argued against the camera specs (for right or wrong) ahead of time ends up eliciting more of the same reasons given before. Hope you got what you were looking for, but I don't think there's anything new here.


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## J. McCabe (Oct 25, 2011)

michaelbinary said:


> What is it with all these people wanted APS sensors because they give a "cropped" image. ??
> A given lens on an APS or a full frame body will produce form an identical image on whatever sensor is at the focal plane. The images are identical. period. Its just that the APS sensor will record less of the image than a FF sensor would.
> 
> So take the FF image and crop it in PS to whatever size you want. You will still end up with a better APS sized image than an APS sized sensor would give you.



It's not the sensor size they care about, but the number of pixels.

E.g. Crop a 5Dmk2 photo to APS-C size, you'll get about 8MP, as many as available on an EOS 20D and less than 1/2 those available on a 60D.


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## Cannon Man (Oct 25, 2011)

macfly said:


> > If you need 40 plus Mp and silky magnificent files at 100iso then look to medium format. There's some brilliant kit out there, and the prices are quickly becoming more competitive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excactly what my wishes are also about an eos-1camera! I do studio work but im also a travel photographer and i wish there was one camera that could do it all. and i love the weather sealed eos-1 bodies, the reliability, durability, excellent ergonomics.

I am a user of two 1D Mark IV bodies and most certainly will buy the 1DX but i place hope in Canon to make a ~40MP camera in year or two..


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## awinphoto (Oct 25, 2011)

michaelbinary said:


> So take the FF image and crop it in PS to whatever size you want. You will still end up with a better APS sized image than an APS sized sensor would give you.



Crop sensors have their place in the world as well... If you take a 21mp full frame photo, crop it down to 8 mp (the average size comparable to a crop camera) and compare that image or even up size to a 18mp 7D image or even better take a 7D image and downsize it to the cropped 21mp photo, the 7D photo would come out smelling like a rose... The 7D cant hold a candle to the full frame full raw photo vs full raw photo, but there are it's advantages and disadvantages... Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.


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## distant.star (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks, Big Brain. Your first-rate question has provided a lot of fascinating reading, as it should. Sorry you've had to endure off-topic niggling from the thin-skinned among us.

Although I'd not consider myself a 1-series shooter, I do have a 1V. It's without peer in a lot of ways, although I just use it when I want to go relive the old film days.

As for the new 1D-X, I'd never commit to a $7K purchase without a lot more information and the benefit of experience from others. I suspect it may be a nearly quantum leap ahead in a lot of ways, but I'd want to see first. While Canon has good credibility, all we really have at this point is their informed wish list.

Thanks for all the good stuff you bring to this forum, Brain. I appreciate you a lot!


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## rocketdesigner (Oct 27, 2011)

distant.star said:


> Thanks for all the good stuff you bring to this forum, Brain. I appreciate you a lot!



I agree.


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## ronderick (Oct 28, 2011)

I think my situation is more like Neuro's - a weekend warrior who's a semi gear-head, saving up enough to go for a 1D-series body. The only difference is I took the dive with 1D4, and now Neuro will have his chance at the 1DX (of course, I don't have so much in-depth knowledge of camera workings as Neuro has ).

As a first-time 1D-user, I think the difference between the prosumer and pro model is very significant, and it takes some time to get used to (I had the 5D2 before). However, I have to say the 1D4 is a very trustworthy machine; despite the loss of the wide-end due to the 1.3x crop, I think it takes care of most situations for me. 

Now, if I had a choice of 1DX and 1D4, I would have jumped at the 1DX simply because that's exactly what I wanted in a 1D-model: FF body with good FPS rate that cost way less than the 1Ds3 (I can accept a price along D3 level, but the only thing Canon has was the 1D model, so there wasn't much choice). 

So to answer Neuro's question (though I'm not the kind Canon would ask for opinion ;D): Yes, I would buy a 1DX - provided I can get rid of my 1D4 at a good price. 

Since I'm not a pro, I can't comment on their consideration on whether to keep or sale their equipments. For me, I would say that one pro-body is more than enough for me. While the 1D4 is a great tool to capture images, it is a real pain to carry around with all those lenses (I cannot imagine what if there's two 1D bodies *shiver*). Of course, it comes in real handy when you get caught in a drizzle but there's a great scene you don't want to miss.

At the end of the day, I guess it's a matter of your priorities. I think the best configuration (for a weekend warrior) would be a 1DX and another 5D-series body; one for raw muscles and one for portability. 

Just my 2 cents.


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