# 5DMk3 at wedding receptions



## mccallew (Jun 11, 2012)

So, I get that that Mk3 AF is very advanced vs. the Mk2, etc... what I am finding, however, is that during low light wedding receptions (dancing) the AF takes a second or so longer to lock on that the Mk2 or Mk1 did. I've changed the settings to release priority vs. focus priority so I can at least get the shot even if focus is not locked, but I am somewhat stunned that this advanced AF takes so long to lock in these reception situations. First, I am wondering if there is a setting I am missing, and also is anyone else seeing this? My second shooter and I are both having the "problem", so I thought I would ask. Thanks all!


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

mccallew said:


> So, I get that that Mk3 AF is very advanced vs. the Mk2, etc... what I am finding, however, is that during low light wedding receptions (dancing) the AF takes a second or so longer to lock on that the Mk2 or Mk1 did. I've changed the settings to release priority vs. focus priority so I can at least get the shot even if focus is not locked, but I am somewhat stunned that this advanced AF takes so long to lock in these reception situations. First, I am wondering if there is a setting I am missing, and also is anyone else seeing this? My second shooter and I are both having the "problem", so I thought I would ask. Thanks all!



Yes i have found while it will actually achieve lock in lower light than the mk2 it struggles and takes too long in really low light

so far the best solution i have found is using my yongnuo ST-E2 copy for AF assist
withsome slight movement of the head you can align the beams to the AF points, i have tested 
and found the following AF points benefit from this
the main problem is that it wont fire the flash 
well the flash will fire but its out of sync


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## justsomedude (Jun 11, 2012)

I've noticed a slight delay in the 5D3 AF in low light, but I - for one - appreciate it. Why? It seems that the AF lock on the 5D3 is actually real, and my percentage of tack-sharp photos has increased as a result. On the flip side, the 5D2 would indicate a "lock" in similar low-light settings, but the results would be all over the place - with many missed-focus junk shots that got deleted anyway.

So what would you rather have -- a captured moment that's a foot or two outside the plane of focus? or a tack sharp image a split second too late?

I'll take tack sharp over a fuzzy mess any day.

That's just my $0.02.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

justsomedude said:


> I've noticed a slight delay in the 5D3 AF in low light, but I - for one - appreciate it. Why? It seems that the AF lock on the 5D3 is actually real, and my percentage of tack-sharp photos has increased as a result. On the flip side, the 5D2 would indicate a "lock" in similar low-light settings, but the results would be all over the place - with many missed-focus junk shots that got deleted anyway.
> 
> So what would you rather have -- a captured moment that's a foot or two outside the plane of focus? or a tack sharp image a split second too late?
> 
> ...



with AF assist you can have both


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Yes i have found while it will actually achieve lock in lower light than the mk2 it struggles and takes too long in really low light



Is this due to the fact that the 1dx's af works slower on the 5d3 with its lower voltage and/or computing power, so the af might be somewhat overpowered for the 5d3's design? I've read about the slower af a couple of times and am curious about this, because I'm really not sure if I should save for a 5d3 because of the better af or rather get a 5d2.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i have found while it will actually achieve lock in lower light than the mk2 it struggles and takes too long in really low light
> ...



if you can afford it i would say the mk3, it has soo many other awesome benefits the 100% VF just for a start
thats worth alot to me, i also think the raws are pretty close to 2 stops better than the mk 2 maybe 1.5
not because of less noise entirely but because the noise itself has a much cleaner film like grain to it
8000 iso is no problem and 12800 is usable i try to limit my mk 2 to 3200 and 6400 at a pinch. not to mention dual cards better build nicer ergonomics better bracketing finer AF micro adjust, the list goes on...

pretty hard to say without having a 1Dx to test side by side i'd be happy to test it if canon want to send me a 1Dx to compare against


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## psolberg (Jun 11, 2012)

does it focus just as slowly when there is good light? IIRC the mkIII lacks an AF assist lamp (ridiculous for such an expensive body). If the problem remains regardless of light levels, then there isn't much you can do except wait for the camera to work it out.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

no in good light it focuses pretty much instantly with the AF assist its almost instant but fractionally slower than with good light


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

justsomedude said:


> I've noticed a slight delay in the 5D3 AF in low light, but I - for one - appreciate it.



Does this delay depend on the max open aperture of the lens? I noticed that the af system of the 5d3 depends more on as much light as possible from the lens than earlier models, or parts of the af degrade/are disabled.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > I've noticed a slight delay in the 5D3 AF in low light, but I - for one - appreciate it.
> ...



no its just ambient light and potential contrast of object for it to grab onto, like i said it will actually lock on in light levels that the mk2 will never even lock in even though the mk2 will lock faster in slightly better light relatively speaking


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> no its just ambient light and potential contrast of object for it to grab onto, like i said it will actually lock on in light levels that the mk2 will never even lock in even though the mk2 will lock faster in slightly better light relatively speaking



Ok, thanks for the information. Are you comparing single point af on the 5d2 and 5d3, or are you saying multi-point af on the 5d3 works slower, but more reliable?

However, as I understand it the max. open lens aperture at which the af works does make a difference for *phase* af, no matter how high the light level or contrast is? The latter is the decisive factor for live view contast af - hence the name.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

single point spot focus on both, also the mk3's other points other than the center point will actually lock on in low light
forget the outer 8 points on the mk2 even in a studio shooting low key under modelling lamps its center point only


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## jointdoc (Jun 11, 2012)

mccallew said:


> So, I get that that Mk3 AF is very advanced vs. the Mk2, etc... what I am finding, however, is that during low light wedding receptions (dancing) the AF takes a second or so longer to lock on that the Mk2 or Mk1 did. I've changed the settings to release priority vs. focus priority so I can at least get the shot even if focus is not locked, but I am somewhat stunned that this advanced AF takes so long to lock in these reception situations. First, I am wondering if there is a setting I am missing, and also is anyone else seeing this? My second shooter and I are both having the "problem", so I thought I would ask. Thanks all!



Which lens are you using? Is it f/2.8 or f/4.0? Is the focusing motor a USM? Have you tried different lenses?


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## TW (Jun 11, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> single point spot focus on both, also the mk3's other points other than the center point will actually lock on in low light
> forget the outer 8 points on the mk2 even in a studio shooting low key under modelling lamps its center point only



Single point SPOT focus? That's your problem. The manual clearly states Spot AF is not recommended for tracking action or for use in very low light scenarios.

RTFM.


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## mccallew (Jun 11, 2012)

jointdoc said:


> mccallew said:
> 
> 
> > So, I get that that Mk3 AF is very advanced vs. the Mk2, etc... what I am finding, however, is that during low light wedding receptions (dancing) the AF takes a second or so longer to lock on that the Mk2 or Mk1 did. I've changed the settings to release priority vs. focus priority so I can at least get the shot even if focus is not locked, but I am somewhat stunned that this advanced AF takes so long to lock in these reception situations. First, I am wondering if there is a setting I am missing, and also is anyone else seeing this? My second shooter and I are both having the "problem", so I thought I would ask. Thanks all!
> ...



My rig during receptions is generally the 70-200 f/2.8 II, 24-70 f/2.8 and 16-35 f/2.8, mixing in an 85 1.2 occassionaly. I am now shooting 600EX-RT flashes on my Mk3 and Mk2 bodies with a 3rd off camera (these flashes rock, though can't wait for the 1DX to come out so that I have two "now" bodies to capitalize on all the flash functions on both bodies). I generally shoot at 2.8-3.5, sticking at 3.2 mostly, and not that it matters for AF at iso 2000 on the mk3. I have the slow AF lock on pretty much all lenses in low light. I shoot one shot most of the time. Next weekend I'll roll AI servo some, but then won't even know if it's locked. I just don't trust it in light of its slow lock. In good light... AMAZING!


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## Wvds1234 (Jun 11, 2012)

I have the same issues as the OP. Thought it might be my flash af assist but tried 3 different 600ex's. It's definitely slower than the mkii/580ex2 tandem, AND I've had some backfocus issues in low light w wide angles. I've started switching off af assist and using servo when there's enough light and it seems to work better (due to the mk3's much better AF). Wish it wasn't a problem but after 7 weddings I cant ignore the issue.


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## jaayres20 (Jun 11, 2012)

I had the same frustrations but I noticed that it would actually focus before the red light flashed so I switched the priority to shot and I often take the picture before the read light and almost all of the time it is in focus. What lens are you using? I have noticed there is a big difference between a few of my lenses. The 70-200 does really well in light that is almost too dark for my eyes to see. The 50mm 1.2 is horrible and when I what good consistant focus with fast moving dancing I switch to the 28mm 1.8. If focuses fast and benefits more from the AF assist on the flash. It really helps to find an area with just a little bit of contrast like a shirt collar or a tie against a white shirt. Often those areas are in the same focal plain and are easier to attain focus. Good luck!


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

jaayres20 said:


> I have noticed there is a big difference between a few of my lenses.



Are you using lenses with a f4 or even f5.6 open aperture, and how do these perform? I'm asking because I've got the 70-300L/4-5.6 and wouldn't like to see that the af performance on the 5d3 isn't any better than on the 5d2 or 60d...


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## jaayres20 (Jun 11, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> jaayres20 said:
> 
> 
> > I have noticed there is a big difference between a few of my lenses.
> ...



Sorry all I have are fast prime lenses and the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II.


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## cpsico (Jun 12, 2012)

In dim receptions try using just the center point, and learn to focus from the af-on button in the back instead of just pressing the shutter button. You need to go into your custom functions to set it up so you can only focus from your af-on but once you do its far superior, you always get the shot. Plus you should be using a flash with focus assist.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 12, 2012)

cpsico said:


> In dim receptions try using just the center point, and learn to focus from the af-on button in the back instead of just pressing the shutter button. You need to go into your custom functions to set it up so you can only focus from your af-on but once you do its far superior, you always get the shot. Plus you should be using a flash with focus assist.



i always use back button focus


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## cpsico (Jun 12, 2012)

mccallew said:


> jointdoc said:
> 
> 
> > mccallew said:
> ...


Its nice to have some pictures and those aperatures but you might be safer with a lot more 5.6 shots. There are a lot more keepers at that aperature. Esp with moving people!!


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## RLPhoto (Apr 4, 2013)

Try AF expansion. Avoid single point AF in extremely low light and Its worked good for me.


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## bseitz234 (Apr 4, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Try AF expansion. Avoid single point AF in extremely low light and Its worked good for me.


Hopefully upcoming firmware fixes all of this, though...


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## awinphoto (Apr 4, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Try AF expansion. Avoid single point AF in extremely low light and Its worked good for me.



I second the AF expansion especially for low light. In my weddings I haven't noticed too much of a drop off... Also, on certain lenses, the center column has double cross points... Not sure if that means they can go any faster or just more accurate, but something to play with... But if your struggling, do a few test shoots in similar lighting situations and try different modes and AF scenarios until you find a system that you like best.


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## Schruminator (Apr 4, 2013)

There is a massive thread on the issue, but I believe the 5D3 focuses much slower with the 600EX-RT flash or the 580 flash attached to it as opposed to no flash unit at all (or something along those lines). 

I don't have either flash, so I haven't followed the discussion that closely, but I want to say Canon said they'd hopefully be fixing it soon.

Here's the loooong topic on the issue if you have time to burn
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10275.0


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