# Canon EOS 7D Mark II listed as discontinued, but no reason for excitement



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 9, 2018)

> A couple of people have written in about the Canon EOS 7D Mark II being listed as discontinued at major retailers. Unfortunately, this is not a sign of an imminent replacement.
> While the Canon EOS 7D Mark II body only is indeed discontinued, this was to make room for the Canon EOS 7D Mark II with the W-E1 Wi-Fi adapter, which has taken the place of the EOS 7D Mark II body only purchase option.
> So while a Canon EOS 7D Mark III is coming, we don’t think we’ll see it for at least another  6 months. We haven’t received any suggestions of a replacement being imminent.
> Canon EOS 7D Mark II buying options at Adorama



Continue reading...


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## Josh Leavitt (Oct 9, 2018)

Well the 7D II is still an excellent performer despite its age. I might be tempted to pick one up this holiday season if Canon rolls out some absurdly good Black Friday deals for it.


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## takesome1 (Oct 9, 2018)

It is a sign. The end of dSLR's and the rise of the mirror-less. The end is near.


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## Punio (Oct 9, 2018)

DSLR's dead Jim


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## aceflibble (Oct 9, 2018)

takesome1 said:


> It is a sign. The end of dSLR's and the rise of the mirror-less. The end is near.





Punio said:


> DSLR's dead Jim


It's really not.

Firstly, as some people may remember, the original 7D was set as "discontinued" four months before the announcement of the 7DmkIII; the 24-105 f/4L was set as "discontinued" 18 months before the 24-105 mkII was announced. A product being listed as "discontinued", even with no replacement directly in sight, does not automatically mean the end of anything.

Secondly, when it comes to the 7D series, mirrorless is not yet in a position to replace it. The Sony *α*9 and Fujifilm X-T3 have gotten the speed in place, but they still fall behind in durability and battery life. The 7D, 1D, D8xx, D5xx, and Dx series of bodies by Canon and Nikon will have a purpose for existing as long as it takes for mirrorless to catch up in battery life and durability. That the current fast mirrorless cameras also only achieve their speeds with various combinations of rolling shutter, lower resolution/further cropping, and/or generally compromising on IQ is another factor.

Third and finally, SLR as a whole still has about ~5 more years left in it. It's still what the factories are all geared up to crank out;l that alone will mean entry-level systems will stick to SLR designs. Just as the switch from film to digital was not overnight, the switch from SLR to mirrorless will also take a few more years. (Remember, digital photography first entered the market in the early 90s...)
Realistically, the next 5 years will be a transition period as mirrorless catches up to the extremes that SLRs are used to and factories are retooled for the new style of product. Then there will be another 5 years or so where the top and bottom SLRs (e.g. 1DX and 2000D) remain relevant and supported. All-in-all, it's going to be roughly 10 years (8 at least, 12 at most) before SLR is "dead".


This is, if anything, simply a sign that Canon knows the 7DmkII is outdated and no longer selling enough to justify making more units. Whether that means the end of the 7D line (extremely unlikely), a merger with the xxD line (quite possible), or gearing up for a direct replacement (most likely), nobody can say; simply discontinuing one body doesn't tell us much.


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## StarJack (Oct 9, 2018)

Punio said:


> DSLR's dead Jim



I heard McCoy in my head as I read this!


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## EduPortas (Oct 9, 2018)

DSLRs are here to stay.

Recent mirrorless cameras are not competing directly against them,
so the big two companies are releasing their mirrorless products as a complement, 
not a substitute, for the robust DSLR lineup.

Right now the market is too fragmented to go all-in into mirrorless.


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## Don Haines (Oct 9, 2018)

Read the article...... They no longer sell the 7D2, they now sell the 7D2 plus wireless adapter....


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## MrFotoFool (Oct 9, 2018)

Josh Leavitt said:


> Well the 7D II is still an excellent performer despite its age. I might be tempted to pick one up this holiday season if Canon rolls out some absurdly good Black Friday deals for it.


There are a lot of mixed feelings about the 7D2 - maybe more than any other DSLR currently in production. Some people do feel, as you say, that it is an excellent performer. Other people, myself included, feel it is a terrible performer. I bought one new several months ago, used it twice, and sold it at a huge loss. It was just not sharp. I don't mean as in image shake or the point of focus was off, I mean the whole image had a kind of hazy quality. On my second (and last) use of it I was photographing elk at close range and I kept looking at the screen and thinking something is not right. Thankfully I had a trusty 5D4 body so I put the lens on it and instant sharpness. Even when I reviewed images on computer later it was clear the 7D2 images were unusable. Honestly a Rebel would have been sharper. My cousin (who has had one for a few years) sent his back to Canon early on for same issue (and they told him nothing is wrong). Several other photogaphers on various forums report focus issues as well. But then again others as you say claim it is great. So if anyone has one and loves it that's great, I have not tested them extensively enough to give a truly objective opinion, I am just sharing my experience.


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## Woody (Oct 9, 2018)

MrFotoFool said:


> Several other photogaphers on various forums report focus issues as well.



In this age of MILCs, focus issues are no longer acceptable.

I am pretty certain the 7D Mark II is discontinued because sales numbers were awful.


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## Randywayne (Oct 9, 2018)

MrFotoFool said:


> There are a lot of mixed feelings about the 7D2 - maybe more than any other DSLR currently in production. Some people do feel, as you say, that it is an excellent performer. Other people, myself included, feel it is a terrible performer. I bought one new several months ago, used it twice, and sold it at a huge loss. It was just not sharp. I don't mean as in image shake or the point of focus was off, I mean the whole image had a kind of hazy quality. On my second (and last) use of it I was photographing elk at close range and I kept looking at the screen and thinking something is not right. Thankfully I had a trusty 5D4 body so I put the lens on it and instant sharpness. Even when I reviewed images on computer later it was clear the 7D2 images were unusable. Honestly a Rebel would have been sharper. My cousin (who has had one for a few years) sent his back to Canon early on for same issue (and they told him nothing is wrong). Several other photogaphers on various forums report focus issues as well. But then again others as you say claim it is great. So if anyone has one and loves it that's great, I have not tested them extensively enough to give a truly objective opinion, I am just sharing my experience.



My feelings exactly. I replaced a 60D with the 7DII and it felt like a complete lateral move as far as image quality goes -and with an actual reduction of "in focus" photos. Granted over the nearly three years I owned it I did get SOME decent shots but we would always return from a vacation and I would be disappointment with the VERY small % of acceptable ones. I even went down that long dark rabbit hole of continually trying to microadjust various lenses to see if that was where the problems were. . . But when I replaced it with my 5D IV, it felt like I was leaping two, if not three, generations ahead at once.


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## Hector1970 (Oct 10, 2018)

Probably is a sign the 7DIII is on the way.
I have a love / hate relationship with the 7DII.
I think its the sensor I don't like.
I find scenes often look sharp as tack in the viewfinder but not so clear in the photo.
I think its too many pixels crammed on the sensor. 
I find it poor at high ISO.
It will be interesting if they put much effort into the 7D III.
I'd suspect it won't be much of an upgrade.
Mirrored is dying out.
It would be great if they went out with one last hurrah for a mirrored APS-C.
12 FPS would be great and good ISO performing sensor


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## Durf (Oct 10, 2018)

I know a couple people who speak quite highly about their 7D2's and have been using them for years. 

If the 7D3 has a flip screen I may just get one.....I predict the 7D3 being released before next Easter.....


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## EduPortas (Oct 10, 2018)

I had no troubles with my 7DM2. I'm using it with decent
APS-C glass by Canon: 18-135mm IS STM, 17-55mm IS 2.8, 10-18mm IS STM and 28mm F2.8 IS full frame and 75-300mm IS.

This is just my anecdotal experience. I don't fiddle around with the "AF Cases".

I find image quality good to very good comparing it to my 6D, SL1, Fuji X100 and Nikon D600.

It's definitely the most responsive of the bunch and the only one I have used in payed gigs. I know it won't fail me.


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## Mr Majestyk (Oct 10, 2018)

No longer holds my interest. It'll be dollar short, a day late and be feature crippled as usual. If it can even surpass the D500 seems unlikely.


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## RGF (Oct 10, 2018)

Josh Leavitt said:


> Well the 7D II is still an excellent performer despite its age. I might be tempted to pick one up this holiday season if Canon rolls out some absurdly good Black Friday deals for it.



really? The 7D M2 should have been replaced a year ago (if not sooner). I have one and have tried the Nikon D500 and IMO the D500 is clearly better


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## Cryve (Oct 10, 2018)

RGF said:


> really? The 7D M2 should have been replaced a year ago (if not sooner). I have one and have tried the Nikon D500 and IMO the D500 is clearly better



Image quality aside, in what areas is the d500 better?


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## Chaitanya (Oct 10, 2018)

Cryve said:


> Image quality aside, in what areas is the d500 better?


Deeper Frame buffer, better video and better memory card format support. In terms of usability both 7d2 and D500 are quite equal.
Also I dont get why people are complaining about AF issues on 7D2, I regularly use the 7D2 and dont have any problems getting good sharp photos(will share few photos in a while when I get my Pc)


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## Memirsbrunnr (Oct 10, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Read the article...... They no longer sell the 7D2, they now sell the 7D2 plus wireless adapter....


Here i Denmark at the official Canon website, already in may they were only selling the combination of 7D2 with adapter was on offer. Without wifi adapter card must have been quite some time ago on offer by the canon main site.. I might just mean that they have too many adapters cards they need to sell.


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## ashmadux (Oct 10, 2018)

Josh Leavitt said:


> Well the 7D II is still an excellent performer despite its age. I might be tempted to pick one up this holiday season if Canon rolls out some absurdly good Black Friday deals for it.




The 7d2 was a lame, dead duck when it was released, and is even more old hat, "useless" trash now. The sensor is UTTERLY ABYSMAL, and that was it for me. I tested it the first week it was on the market, and I still hate it..disgusting nightime pictures with terrible dynamic range that is easily beaten by an M1. I despise the 7d2 more than the 6d2 though...that one is a true, canon wasnt even trying 2k$ stinker.

You would be far better off with a used 5d3. The 5d3 is still a beast, no fancy gizmos or functions, just raw shooting, reliable full frame goodness. But yeah, let that old trash die.

Sony is about to drop a super aspc model.....they probably designed it at a 7d2 roasting party. And canon will again have no answer. Pathetic.


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## Otara (Oct 10, 2018)

I've quite enjoyed mine. I have a 5d III as well, and still quite like the 7DII, all depends on your priorities really, DPAF for video is quite nice for a start.


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## tomscott (Oct 10, 2018)

ashmadux said:


> The 7d2 was a lame, dead duck when it was released, and is even more old hat, "useless" trash now. The sensor is UTTERLY ABYSMAL, and that was it for me. I tested it the first week it was on the market, and I still hate it..disgusting nightime pictures with terrible dynamic range that is easily beaten by an M1. I despise the 7d2 more than the 6d2 though...that one is a true, canon wasnt even trying 2k$ stinker.
> 
> You would be far better off with a used 5d3. The 5d3 is still a beast, no fancy gizmos or functions, just raw shooting, reliable full frame goodness. But yeah, let that old trash die.
> 
> Sony is about to drop a super aspc model.....they probably designed it at a 7d2 roasting party. And canon will again have no answer. Pathetic.



Wow dont hold back... lol

I think its hilarious how people get so emotionally invested in a tool. If it doesn't work for you then move on.

My thoughts are that the sensor wasn't amazing but it wasn't awful either. If you work within its limitations you can get some great images, if you consistently use it out of its range then of course you will be disappointed. My main gripe with the 7DMKII is that the AF was inconsistent and there are good and bad copy's. Many people that have had AF issues also didn't use its AF settings correctly and a lot of soft images came from the AF release settings specifically. Most leave it to the default of shutter priority over focus priority meaning a lot of shots dont quite nail focus but the shutter will fire leaving soft images.

I dont think its a problem with sharpness as such but the AF system does hit inconsistently. When it hit... it hit and images looked great. I bought one as a sports camera and also took it traveling take to Africa and south east asia for a 6 months and I took it to some brutal places, deep in the rainforests with 100% humidity, deserts, national parks etc and it performed exactly how I wanted it too. Even up to 6400ISO.

Feel free to have a look at these.



Fish Eagle, Chobe National Park, Botswana by Tom Scott, on Flickr

6400ISO in GUNUNG LEUSER NATIONAL PARK












6400ISO in Bwindi National park uganda











4000ISO out of an aeroplane, okavango delta botswana






Desert Giraffes in Namibia





Decent light










Comodo island indonesia





South luangua national park





I also shoot Motorsport professionally and have had great success with it.



N0. 78 1965 2.0 Porsche 911 Classic GT Cars (pre &#x27;66) Silverstone Classics 2016 by Tom Scott, on Flickr



No.27 Nissan R91CK (1991) (Nova Engineering) Silverstone Classics 2016 by Tom Scott, on Flickr



Jaguar - Art of Performance Tour by Tom Scott, on Flickr

As I said the right tool for the right job it was great for the above but I always preferred my 5DMKIII to it but for wildlife and motorsport you cant beat the rate it shoots. Outside these areas where speed is not critical I probably would buy something else in canons line up. Its a niche tool in my mind that in the right hands can create great images. It does a few things really well but others not so.

Same with the 6DMKII it was blasted at launch yet anyone that has owns it really enjoys shooting with it. The 5DMKIII I also found frustrating with its muddy shadows and banding with very little lifts. The 6DMKII fixes both of these as long as you arent pulling 5 stops which is ridiculous and has almost the same dynamic range. The 6DMKII fixed all the issues I had with the 5DMKIII. Unless its the twin card slots you need I think the 6DMKII is a far better camera in terms of IQ. I had 2 5DMKIIIs for 5 years and shot over a million images with them and I was very pleased with the 6DMKII in comparison.

As a side note in real life shooting and lifting shadows with the 6DMKII



Melanistic Fallow Deer, Dunham Massey, Cheshire out of camera by Tom Scott, on Flickr



Melanistic Fallow Deer, Dunham Massey, Cheshire by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Of course the 5DMKIV is the best of the bunch. Crop still has its place and the 7DMKII is the only camera in a standard body size that shoots 10fps. I just dont like the 1DX body and I dont like how limited in terms of resolution you are in a body so expensive.

There are compromises to be made. Its a reason there is a camera line up.

Its all well and good sony appealing to the masses with a one camera does all but you compromise on build quality, weather resistance, dedicated lenses and most importantly size and ergonomics. I cant use any of the sony cameras as my hands are too big and its painful to use for a few hours let alone 10-14 hours for weddings etc.


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## Durf (Oct 10, 2018)

Great images @tomscott 

I get amazing wildlife and moving object images using long lenses on my 80D. (with 70-300L & Sigma 150-600). As long as I don't have to bump up the ISO to extremes I can get amazing results that can make beautiful prints. 
I may consider the 7D3, but I know for a fact I would never get rid of this 80D as it performs so well.
Same with the 6D2, I totally enjoy using this camera too. Both these camera's work perfect for me for what I do.

Those I know that own the 7D2 have all said it took them a bit to get used to the focusing system and they eventually totally customized the focusing settings etc., to fit their style and the lenses they were using. I've never used the 7D2 but It sounds to me it's not a camera one can just pick up and shoot away with and get 100% great results without getting used to it first. (like most cameras).

From the many image samples I've seen from those that are used to and shoot the 7D2 on a regular basis, they look absolutely amazing. The 7D2 is not a piece of junk like some are claiming .....


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## bobby (Oct 10, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Read the article...... They no longer sell the 7D2, they now sell the 7D2 plus wireless adapter....



Right. Do we have any information on whether the 7D2 plus wireless adapter has a new SKU? From a business perspective, a new SKU usually isn't created unless the "new" product remains on sale for at least 8-12 months. So this might be bad news unless Canon wants to sell both a 7D2 and a 7D3 at the same time. A new SKU would quite possibly mean that we won't see a 7D3 for at least another 8-12 months (probably more like 12+ months).


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## Chaitanya (Oct 10, 2018)

Here are few examples shot using 7D mk2 and I really dont see what the fuss is about this 4 year old camera its a tool that gets the job done. Though for macro it's quite heavy and I prefer something of the size of EOS 70D/80D.



Common krait by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr



Common krait by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr



_Z7A5780 by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr



_Z7A5748 by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr



_Z7A5752 by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr



_Z7A5767 by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr



_T0A8519 by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr



_T0A8512 by Chaitanya Shukla, on Flickr


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Oct 10, 2018)

In my experience people who complain about the 7D MARK II either don't understand it's purpose or lack the photographic competence to operate it properly. It's not for everybody and it's one of the more difficult cameras in Canon's current line to acheive good results with but it excels at what it was built for. I've owned every version of the 5D and my current primary is a 1Dx Mark II but I still shoot with the 7D2 and wouldn't hesitate to display it's images. The AF throws up a clunker every now and again but so do most cameras AF systems.If you can shoot without having to do additional crop in post the IQ is generally indistinguishable from full frame under most normal viewing conditions. It's not my favorite sensor for pixel peeping but for electronic display or reasonably sized prints it's fine.


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## Don Haines (Oct 10, 2018)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> In my experience people who complain about the 7D MARK II either don't understand it's purpose or lack the photographic competence to operate it properly. It's not for everybody and it's one of the more difficult cameras in Canon's current line to acheive good results with but it excels at what it was built for. I've owned every version of the 5D and my current primary is a 1Dx Mark II but I still shoot with the 7D2 and wouldn't hesitate to display it's images. The AF throws up a clunker every now and again but so do most cameras AF systems.If you can shoot without having to do additional crop in post the IQ is generally indistinguishable from full frame under most normal viewing conditions. It's not my favorite sensor for pixel peeping but for electronic display or reasonably sized prints it's fine.


Well said!

Also, when it came out it was considered to be the best sealed camera in the Canon lineup.... better than even the 1DX! If you need a camera for rough conditions, it is a tank!


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## BrightTiger (Oct 10, 2018)

it seems pretty clear that without a named 7DIII successor that it could very well likely be the M5 Mk II - rumored as being one of the two new ASP-C mirrorless coming in 1H2019 - will fill in this spot. Or maybe a M7 for the high end. The M5, essentially a mirrorless 80D for the most part, would with modest enhancements make a 7DIII quite useless. Of course, Canon is notorious for putting needless variations on a theme out there but they really should restrain themselves and do with less lines and pass the savings to provide more features (better sensor, dual card slots) or a competitive price point to compensate for stated, well-known deficiencies (e.g. dynamic range).


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## RGF (Oct 10, 2018)

Cryve said:


> Image quality aside, in what areas is the d500 better?



without question, AF. The AF in the 7DM2 is not as good as the AF in the 1Dx M2. I compared my 1Dx M2 with Canon 200-400 to a Nikon D500 with a sigma 150-600 lens on a fliying raptor shoot. I got more keepers with the Nikon / Sigma combination


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## ashmadux (Oct 10, 2018)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> In my experience people who complain about the 7D MARK II either don't understand it's purpose or lack the photographic competence to operate it properly. It's not for everybody and it's one of the more difficult cameras in Canon's current line to acheive good results with but it excels at what it was built for. I've owned every version of the 5D and my current primary is a 1Dx Mark II but I still shoot with the 7D2 and wouldn't hesitate to display it's images. The AF throws up a clunker every now and again but so do most cameras AF systems.If you can shoot without having to do additional crop in post the IQ is generally indistinguishable from full frame under most normal viewing conditions. It's not my favorite sensor for pixel peeping but for electronic display or reasonably sized prints it's fine.



That's a convinient way of limiting your ability/will to comprehend others discontent with that body. And, 'fine' is not a great way to sell anything to anyone. Why not just say, it's _aiiiiiight_

There is nothing anyone can say in regards to it being a 'good' sensor. It was outclassed on arrival - that's a fact, no feelings need get involved. To the wildlife photog showing his pics: in the right conditions you can get nice pictures on anything, so let's leave that relatively basic thinking out also. I think we are more technically inclined on these forums. I'm giving you guys that credit in the spirit of friendly argument/conversation.

That said, I was a supreme lover of the 7dmk1, took it around the world, until it self destructed. All it needed was a better sensor. And they failed. The rest of the camera...pretty sweet, one of the best I've ever used (as far as canon goes.) However, the sensor is the heart of the camera, features be damned. My old classic T2i still _shreds_ in image quality, especially when paired with my 70-200 2.8. Over the years i still pixel peep (and proud!) and just am amazed what that lil cam can do.

The two cameras ive ever had the displeasure of editing thier files were the 7dmk2 and the M3. Yuck and yuck.

I'll just leave the 6d2 and it's hobbled sensor crap for another discussion... that one REALLY grinds my gears, because it's dumbing down was so blatant, it deserved a razzie. That body is an FU to canon customers, plain and simple.


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## RGF (Oct 10, 2018)

Just because you can get great pictures from the 7D M2 (or any camera) that does not prove anything - other under the correct conditions the camera can delivery.

The 7D M2 is not useless nor is it state of the art. Rather IMO the 7D M2 lacks certain features such as the ability to track BIF well (when compared to the 1DX M2 or the D500). From my observation, Canon tends to scale down functionality in their lower priced bodies while Nikon does not (at least not as much).

Again my observations: AF is better in the D850 and D500 (when compared to the D5) than the 7D M2 is when compared to the 1Dx M2. In other words, Canon dumbed down the AF more than Nikon. I would pay more for a cropped body if it had better features. I would like to 1Dx w/ APS-C or APS-H sensor.


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## AlanF (Oct 10, 2018)

ashmadux said:


> ........disgusting nightime pictures with terrible dynamic range that is easily beaten by an M1. .



Absolute nonsense: the dynamic ranges of the 7DII and M1 have been measured a couple of times and the 7DII is demonstrably better. Nice to have some numbers to dispose of some of your rant: see http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon EOS 7D Mark II,Canon EOS M and https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...n-EOS-7D-Mark-II-versus-Canon-EOS-M___977_819


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## Don Haines (Oct 10, 2018)

aceflibble said:


> This is, if anything, simply a sign that Canon knows the 7DmkII is outdated and no longer selling enough to justify making more units. Whether that means the end of the 7D line (extremely unlikely), a merger with the xxD line (quite possible), or gearing up for a direct replacement (most likely), nobody can say; simply discontinuing one body doesn't tell us much.



Actually, it means very little.

Canon sold the 7D2 as a stand alone body, and they sold it as a body with the WiFi card. Now they just sell the bundle with the WiFi card. The camera is not discontinued, and this says nothing about if or when a replacement is coming, nor does it say anything about mirrorless....

All it says is that it makes no sense to carry a separate stock item when it is offered in a bundle for the same price....

If you think in automotive terms, this is like Toyota offering a Corolla, or a Corolla with a set of spare tires, at the same price...... And then the public saying that Toyota is ******* because nobody is buying the version without the spare tires....


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## Don Haines (Oct 10, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Absolute nonsense: the dynamic ranges of the 7DII and M1 have been measured a couple of times and the 7DII is demonstrably better. Nice to have some numbers to dispose of some of your rant: see http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon EOS 7D Mark II,Canon EOS M and https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...n-EOS-7D-Mark-II-versus-Canon-EOS-M___977_819


Having both, The 7D2 is much better at night


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Oct 10, 2018)

The 7D Mark II predates the 1DX Mark II by nearly two years so how is that a fair comparison? It's AF was based on tech from the original 1DX and in 2014 was the best BIF tracking camera that I had ever used. Is it showing it's age? Sure. But in 2014 and in 2018 it's still the best feature per dollar camera in Canon's line-up. You are free to hate it if you want but I find it to be a fundamentally excellent camera and the endlessly uninformed trolling on it is tiresome.


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## AlanF (Oct 10, 2018)

RGF said:


> without question, AF. The AF in the 7DM2 is not as good as the AF in the 1Dx M2. I compared my 1Dx M2 with Canon 200-400 to a Nikon D500 with a sigma 150-600 lens on a fliying raptor shoot. I got more keepers with the Nikon / Sigma combination


A big slow flying raptor? I couldn't even hand hold a 1DXII + 200-400mm for BIF so I am impressed you got any keepers.


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## Don Haines (Oct 10, 2018)

AlanF said:


> A big slow flying raptor? I couldn't even hand hold a 1DXII + 200-400mm for BIF so I am impressed you got any keepers.


This is a good segway into what is probably the most important factor for BIF..... the person holding the camera!

It takes a lot of practice to hold a camera and smoothly follow a bird..... plus, some people are stronger than others, some people are smoother, some are better at anticipating the action, a some have faster reaction time. We all have varying amounts of each, and this makes comparison of different cameras for different people fraught with peril. Then throw in a complex AF system that also takes time to learn and see what happens....

There are other factors at play too... For example, I can take better loon pictures than most people, and it has very little to do with my gear or photographic skill.... It is mostly my ability as a canoeist and my ability to predict movement patterns and then sit quietly and wait..... from a few feet away, you could get great pictures with a phone.

I will get lots of good geese pictures this fall.... mostly because I have a hunting blind near where they like to raft up in the fall, and the two most important pieces of gear are a comfy chair and a good book while I wait.... yet another factor that has nothing to do with the camera or lenses....


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Oct 10, 2018)

By all accounts the predictive tracking on the Nikon's is very good. Nikon's strategy is to turn most of the control of the autofocus over to the camera which is fine as long as you agree with the camera about where to focus. 

Canon's method requires that the photographer be constantly engaged with managing the autofocus and selecting individual focus points with the joystick. Canon's method is certainly more work and a lot less elegant but that doesn't mean that it isn't effective. I find that once my Canon's are locked on a target they stay locked on and track fine. If something goes wrong it's usually my fault not the cameras.

Personally, I prefer the additional level of control that Canon offers but I can certainly see why some people prefer Nikon's.


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## RGF (Oct 10, 2018)

AlanF said:


> A big slow flying raptor? I couldn't even hand hold a 1DXII + 200-400mm for BIF so I am impressed you got any keepers.



thanks it is challenging to hand hold - but I use a Wimberley most of the time. When I was in Japan shooting Stellar Eagles from a boat, i hand held and got a number of good keepers.


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## EduPortas (Oct 11, 2018)

Funny how no one has mentioned that the 7DII has *basically the same body 
and button layout *as the 5DIII and 5DIV. They weight and feel almost exactly the same.

For a working pro, this is important. Every second counts. No time fiddling around
changing lenses or worse yet, digging into menus. I've seen a good number
of professionals with an L-prime on their 5DIII and a 70--200 telephoto on their 7DII.

Agains this is just anecdotal, but I can see the value in this consistency.


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## Mancubus (Oct 11, 2018)

Maybe the ones of you who like the 7D2 got a later release. I was unfortunate to get one of the launch ones and it was BAD. In fact it was the worst DSLR body I've ever had (out of 6).

- Expensive
- VERY POOR autofocus accuracy
- very strong AA filter making everything soft
- Canon never confessed it was faulty, just sent me back the same body saying nothing was wrong with it

When I sold that piece of garbage and got myself a 5D3 it was night and day, and up to this day I use it as my main body. I was blaming myself for months with that stupid 7D2, tried numerous fixes and it turned up it was never my fault, that body was useless.


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## Koemans (Oct 11, 2018)

Mancubus said:


> Maybe the ones of you who like the 7D2 got a later release. I was unfortunate to get one of the launch ones and it was BAD. In fact it was the worst DSLR body I've ever had (out of 6).
> 
> - Expensive
> - VERY POOR autofocus accuracy
> ...




Wow, i am not the only one. 

I started with the 350d, moved to the 40d,then i got the 7d and now i have the 7d mark ii and i always believed that one to be a lemon. Only 2/3 out of 10 photos are sharp, the sharp ones usually look nowhere as good as some of the pictures posted here etc. The first batch of the 7d mark ii was utterly garbage and canons denial of the problem really destroyed their reputation for me. 

The specs of the 7d mark 3 better be good, but for sure i am not going to get the first batch.


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## tomscott (Oct 11, 2018)

RGF said:


> Just because you can get great pictures from the 7D M2 (or any camera) that does not prove anything - other under the correct conditions the camera can delivery.



I disagree, I specifically posted images in challenging and average situations. Shooting in a rainforrest with extreme changeable light through the canopy with large variations between highlights and shadows is probably one of the most challenging situations a photographer will experience.


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## Mike Acker (Oct 11, 2018)

I got my 7D Mk. II about a year after their initial release. I normally use it with the EF-S 15\85 lens. Image quality has always been very good,-- but: the image quality from a quality digital camera will generally be very good.

What sets one camera ahead of another then is the extent to which the camera electronics facilitate the photographer's art.

with all 65 focus points activated the 7D will generally select a near foreground object at the point of focus. this is quite often the intention. At times the 7D won't identify a small foreground object as when you want to incorporate a seed head into a blaze of fall color. the manual focus over ride helps -- but doesn't follow the object. the photographer will have to make a number of attempts so as to have a good probability of a hit. but this is not a camera fault; it's the nature of the subject.

at times the subject matter needs to use the center point only, such as when attempting to catch a bumble bee climbing on a flower. and so there is a need to be able to switch QUICKLY from all-points to center point. this is clumsy on the 7D. but this serves to illustrate what i'm talking about : the camera electronics should facilitate the photographer's art

I will note here that my 7D is *slightly* better with L series glass -- e.g. the EF 24-105 F4 L IS USM II -- is a bit better than my older EF-S 15\85. but that is the glass, not the camera.

I should further note that the typical computer screen -- "1080p" -- presents about 2 mpx ( 1920 x 1080 ). And so -- on screen -- whether you start with a 20 mpx image -- or a 50 -- doesn't matter: you'll need a side-by-side image analysis to find any advantage of one over the other.

if you want to crop a tiny piece out of a 50 mpx image -- that's another matter. that crop had better come from the exact spot you had your focus on or it won't be very good. cropping is OK -- to a point. better to have used a quality zoom lens and have better original material than to try and crop out of a frame made with the wrong lens because you didn't have time to make a change.


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## tomscott (Oct 11, 2018)

Koemans said:


> Wow, i am not the only one.
> 
> I started with the 350d, moved to the 40d,then i got the 7d and now i have the 7d mark ii and i always believed that one to be a lemon. Only 2/3 out of 10 photos are sharp, the sharp ones usually look nowhere as good as some of the pictures posted here etc. The first batch of the 7d mark ii was utterly garbage and canons denial of the problem really destroyed their reputation for me.
> 
> The specs of the 7d mark 3 better be good, but for sure i am not going to get the first batch.



Interesting I had the same path. 350d to 40d to 7D to 5DMKIII then 7DMKII as a secondary camera then twin 5DMKIIIs and a 7DMKII. Had a 5DMKIII stolen and bought a 6DMKII and 5DMKIV and sold the 7DMKII.

IMO the original 7D wasnt great and sold it within a couple of months. Hated the sensor even at base ISO it was noisy in blue skys and I couldn't take that thing past 1600 was just awful yet the 7DMKII was the opposit I took the 7DMKII to 6400 without too much issue as long as the exposure was correct. I also thought the AF system wasn't reliable on the 7D either.

There could have been an issue with the early 7DMKII cameras, but for many it was getting the AF settings to work for them. Many just had the settings wrong and they take a while to get dialed in. It is a complex AF system but was in the price range that made it available to a huge number of people over the 5 and 1 series. In all respect I feel like there was a lot of user error across the internet with this issue.

Canon are generally excellent at identifying issues and sorting them and in this case and in my experience having a pretty early version I dont know whether there was an issue.

I bought mine in December 2014 and once I had it dialed in had very few issues with it. I think also you have to think of the overal package I think I paid £1000 for mine even then, huge amount of camera for the money when a 5DMKIII was £2500 at the same time. Although it was a kick in the teeth when the 80D came along. 

Have you set your shutter priority to focus over release? That is the reason many have lack of keepers because out of the box the priority is to release the shutter rather than get critical focus.

TBH i sold mine because it just wasnt being used after buying the 5DMKIV and 6DMKII. Once you are on FF the crop cameras just dont come close even with L glass for me and the newer FF are better in every way although I do miss the speed of the 7DMKII... 8fps of the 5DMKIV is quick enough for most situations.

Regardless they sell for 450-600 now preowned and its still a huge amount of camera and offers a lot for someone on a budget.

I do feel like there is a hole missing in the line up, a pro style body with great IQ at a decent frame rate.


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## AlanF (Oct 11, 2018)

Koemans said:


> Wow, i am not the only one.
> 
> I started with the 350d, moved to the 40d,then i got the 7d and now i have the 7d mark ii and i always believed that one to be a lemon. Only 2/3 out of 10 photos are sharp, the sharp ones usually look nowhere as good as some of the pictures posted here etc. The first batch of the 7d mark ii was utterly garbage and canons denial of the problem really destroyed their reputation for me.
> 
> The specs of the 7d mark 3 better be good, but for sure i am not going to get the first batch.


I had one of the first batch, and it was a good one. Maybe there were some lemons, but not all were bad.


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## tron (Oct 12, 2018)

I got my 7DII by mid-2015. It was fine although it needed it some AFMA and some combinations with teleconverters worked better than others... I don't use it much now because I use to shoot birds with 5DsR.


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 13, 2018)

When I get it right my 7d2 is a sharp as a tack. Yes. Cropping is an issue but you can't expect anything else when cropping 20mp but I am certainly not disapointed in the camera. Certainly for the price it is in the top two or three wildlife cameras on the market. But like all 7d2 users there are a few improvements I would like to see and hope the next iteration is coming sooner rather than later


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## privatebydesign (Oct 13, 2018)

takesome1 said:


> It is a sign. The end of dSLR's and the rise of the mirror-less. The end is near.


Yeh, they also said that about film, for the last 20 years... 

I still don't see an end to film, indeed it is riding yet another low wave of resurgence, so I expect DSLR's to outlast my career. Not that I am anti MILC's, I'll take whatever works best for the job I have for it, but proclamations of the demise of DSLR's are short sighted and fly in the face of precedent.


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## zim (Oct 13, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> Yeh, they also said that about film, for the last 20 years...
> 
> I still don't see an end to film, indeed it is riding yet another low wave of resurgence, so I expect DSLR's to outlast my career. Not that I am anti MILC's, I'll take whatever works best for the job I have for it, but proclamations of the demise of DSLR's are short sighted and fly in the face of precedent.



Absolutely!

This statement should be the last word in all these ridiculous tech arguments
_
"I expect DSLR's to outlast my *career*"
"I'll take whatever *works* best for the job"_

says it all, thank goodness Canon don't listen to self proclaimed bloody forum warriors


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## tron (Oct 13, 2018)

Even cropping is good in7DII if you shoot with good light conditions. Maybe some more PP to remove noise in higher ISOs but that's all.


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## dak723 (Oct 14, 2018)

ashmadux said:


> The 7d2 was a lame, dead duck when it was released, and is even more old hat, "useless" trash now. The sensor is UTTERLY ABYSMAL, and that was it for me. I tested it the first week it was on the market, and I still hate it..disgusting nightime pictures with terrible dynamic range that is easily beaten by an M1. I despise the 7d2 more than the 6d2 though...that one is a true, canon wasnt even trying 2k$ stinker.
> 
> You would be far better off with a used 5d3. The 5d3 is still a beast, no fancy gizmos or functions, just raw shooting, reliable full frame goodness. But yeah, let that old trash die.
> 
> Sony is about to drop a super aspc model.....they probably designed it at a 7d2 roasting party. And canon will again have no answer. Pathetic.



Yes Sony is launching a new model. And if it is like their other models, the exposure metering will be poor, the ergonomics awful, the weather sealing non-existent, and the color really bad. Pathetic.


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## LukasS (Oct 15, 2018)

My 7D mk2 purchase was mostly for Air Shows and some wildlife (at that time had 5D classic) to get enough reach (attached mostly with 100-400mk2, which I bought right after the body) and at that time (early 2015) photographing in Czech Republic and Polish airshows, 80% of other people were using same setup (some with 100-400mk1).

Never complained about the AF, tweaked it a bit (especially disabled priority for shutter release) and 95%+ of shots were in focus, neither complained about the IQ. It did the job I bought it for almost perfectly.

I don't use it that often now, bought for some time 100D, sold it, bought 5D mk4 - FF were my main cameras, but due to big changes in life and move I don't use the 7D too often, and prolly will be selling in few months to make place for new R Pro.

I often catch myself on using 7D's screen as touch screen and wonder why it doesn't work ).

I've attached most challenging situation I was using this camera for. Still worked great under those conditions:


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 15, 2018)

tron said:


> Even cropping is good in7DII if you shoot with good light conditions. Maybe some more PP to remove noise in higher ISOs but that's all.


I guess it depends on how much you have to crop. And yes. Good light makes a big difference.


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