# Canon EOS M3 Coming to North America? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 4, 2015)

```
We’re told that Canon USA is currently discussing whether or not to bring the EOS M3 to the United States. Discussions are ongoing and a decision will be made soon.</p>
<p>The original EOS M was available in North America, but its successor, the EOS M2 was not. I do believe the lacklustre lens lineup for the system is one of the reasons the system isn’t currently in the United States, along with the fact mirrorless cameras continue to lag in sales in the USA compared to other markets around the globe.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
```


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 4, 2015)

Interesting! I hope they do, as it would also likely mean US availability of – and service support for – the full M lens lineup.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 4, 2015)

For crop mirrorless, we have great selections to choose. I'm not sure this is a good move for Canon.


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## jchung (Aug 4, 2015)

I think it would be great. Especially with the EOS M Mount adapter. No need for more lenses, just need a good body.

I just wish they would get rid of the touch screen display. I keep accidentally hitting random parts of the display as the body bounces against my belly.


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## Luds34 (Aug 4, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> For crop mirrorless, we have great selections to choose. I'm not sure this is a good move for Canon.



Agree that it is a competitive field. It has required a lot of will power to not buy into the Fuji X system. I know the second I pick up a X-T10 or X-E2 I'll be in another few grand in glass.

With that said, the M3 is developed and available. Might as well make it available everywhere. They just need to put a little bit more behind the system. A few more lenses (please a fast 85mm FF equiv prime) and continued improvement/evolution of the camera and they could catch up to the likes of Olympus, Fuji, Sony. I have a couple of the original Ms and they are decent. The M3 is a nice step up from everything I've heard and seen. Maybe by a 5th gen M they will really be cooking?

Plus, don't forget the appeal to those of us who own a lot of Canon glass. While the EF-M is a second system, the compatibility with EF/EF-S makes it not quite the jump as say if/when I have a little too much scotch some evening and click checkout on that new Fuji system. 

Either way, it's a win for us US consumers. I'll have to consider picking one up if this comes to pass.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 4, 2015)

I'd like to try out the M3. The M served as a backup while I had my DSLR serviced. I missed a lot of action shots and lost the ability to shoot in low light, but that is price to be paid with the much smaller system.

I'm hoping that Canon stays with the M-line as a compact lineup, and eventually replaces the DSLR offerings with mirrorless counterparts with the same flange distance.


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## Luds34 (Aug 4, 2015)

jchung said:


> I just wish they would get rid of the touch screen display. I keep accidentally hitting random parts of the display as the body bounces against my belly.



Well, they couldn't get rid of it, not enough controls to cover what the touch screen actually does. It would be nice if it could be disabled/enabled quickly, like some laptops and the touchpad. The number of times, just handing the camera to someone else, etc. that the screen gets bumped the focus point is moved off to the corner... well it has happened more then a few times and results in some out of focus shots. Shots that I was trying to make the rare appearance and actually be included in.


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## hmatthes (Aug 4, 2015)

The mirrorless would do well here IF the EF/EF-S adapter is included. Bodies come and go, lenses stay in my kit forever.


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## bereninga (Aug 4, 2015)

If it's at a good price and comes w/ an adapter (although I highly doubt it would come w/ an adapter), this lens would do well IMO. Is the M3 smaller than the SL1?


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## ashmadux (Aug 4, 2015)

GREAT news if true- I would buy it. My M1 serves me well, and has been my most used camera for the last 2 years- you just cant beat a full apsc sensor and that kind of portability. Bars, parties (in a thinktank mirrorless mover 10 bag- tiny), parades, you name it, ive taken the m1 there.

I handled the m3 while i was in tokyo (@BIC Camera)- it feels great, much im proved grip, the flexible screen is welcome. I DID have a sense that the interface was moving along pretty slowly, but the AF was gangbusters, especially compared to my workhorse original model.

Whats awesome compared to the states is that you can put on/take off the various lenses and see how they operate- i debated getting the 11-22 for some time, but at the moment im still content with my 10-22 + adapter. For the moment.....


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## rsdofny (Aug 4, 2015)

I am still in the market for a body compatible with Sony A6000 that can be used reliably with a Canon lens adaptor. May be it is not a M3, but certainly a M4 or M5. The form factor makes sense for me, but not the technology.


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## sunnyVan (Aug 4, 2015)

They should have done it when the m3 was launched. Now the price has been coming down. You can easily get one for $4xx on ebay. If canon usa does start selling it the profit margin won't be as high as if they had done it a few months ago. People who really want m3 have already got it. People who are skeptical will continue to be skeptical unless canon usa decides to sell m3 dirt cheap like m1. Only hard core canon fans buy the m line, people who already own canon glass. I just don't think the m3 will sell well in usa. And if the sale is flat again they won't carry the next m model which would be bad news. 

Since canon usa had decided months ago to skip m3 they should stick with the decision. Tell corporate that mirrorless market does exist in America and people are just waiting for an M that can compete with xt1 or the like.


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## jeanluc (Aug 4, 2015)

If they don't ever offer it for sale in North America, guess what, it won't sell well here...........if they offer it, I'll get one. I suspect quite a few others will too if the price is reasionable. I like the original M, but it needs an EVF to make bright light shooting a whole lot easier...


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## Etienne (Aug 4, 2015)

I'd consider it at $300, otherwise I'll wait to see what the M4 looks like


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## ahsanford (Aug 4, 2015)

Are they also "discussing whether or not to"...


Offer more than two native lenses in the US? (Perhaps one with USM someday?)
Offer an integral viewfinder?
Move the needle from "Not trying" to "Trying" in this segment?

Those of you that know me know that I'm not a 'Canon is not innovating', 'Sony makes neater things', 'Waaaaah', etc. sort of guy.

I'm generally Canon-positive and support what they do on their body designs and on the EF lens front. I just can't help but be underwhelmed by EOS-M from just about every angle. I want to want one of these rigs, but from every perspective -- breadth of native lens offerings, feature set on the bodies, confidence Canon will support this platform for years to come, etc. -- everything says _stay away_ to me.

- A


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## bereninga (Aug 4, 2015)

sunnyVan said:


> They should have done it when the m3 was launched. Now the price has been coming down. You can easily get one for $4xx on ebay. If canon usa does start selling it the profit margin won't be as high as if they had done it a few months ago. People who really want m3 have already got it. People who are skeptical will continue to be skeptical unless canon usa decides to sell m3 dirt cheap like m1. Only hard core canon fans buy the m line, people who already own canon glass. I just don't think the m3 will sell well in usa. And if the sale is flat again they won't carry the next m model which would be bad news.
> 
> Since canon usa had decided months ago to skip m3 they should stick with the decision. Tell corporate that mirrorless market does exist in America and people are just waiting for an M that can compete with xt1 or the like.



These are all good points. Of course, I'd prefer it to perform like the XT-1, but not have the bulk. If it were to be my primary camera, the slight bulk bump would be a non-issue. But as a secondary camera, I'd prefer it to stay small.


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## ahsanford (Aug 4, 2015)

Also, EOS-M hasn't been a hit here before, why would it be a hit now? Americans like to buy _new_ things, not rebadged / rebranded / relaunched things.

They'd have to drop the price considerably, I think, and then (for better or worse) Americans might expect future EOS-M rigs to hit that lower price point. Canon might be wiser to wait for EOS-M4 and launch with the RoW to start at a higher price.

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 4, 2015)

bereninga said:


> These are all good points. Of course, I'd prefer it to perform like the XT-1, but not have the bulk. If it were to be my primary camera, the slight bulk bump would be a non-issue. But as a secondary camera, I'd prefer it to stay small.



This is the tectonic fault that threatens to split mirrorless into two camps -- people who buy it for size and people who buy it to replace their SLR. 

The first camp wants (small but reasonable) feature/performance compromises made to keep the aggregate lens+body as small as possible. This is Olympus, Nikon, perhaps Panasonic.

The second camp wants everything their SLR can do but without a mirror. This is Sony mainly, but Samsung is making some beastly spec'd APS-C rigs these days. These are thinner than SLRs (front to back) but not terribly smaller.

I've always found that Fuji sits somewhere in between the two camps. I don't know if that's wise or foolish. 

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 4, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Americans like to buy _new_ things, not rebadged / rebranded / relaunched things.



Most wouldn't know it's 'relaunched'. Hopefully people here won't find the '3' confusing. If you recall the film, _The Madness of King George_ from the mid-90s, it was test-marketed as _The Madness of King George III_, because George III, played by Nigel Hawthorne, was the protagonist (he reigned during the American Revolution). But the testing marketing indicated people would not go see the film because they hadn't seen the two previous installments in the film series (_The Madness of King George I_ and _The Madness of King George II_). We're not big on history here.


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## lux (Aug 4, 2015)

now that's funny


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## Act444 (Aug 4, 2015)

well...depends on what price point they settle on if they do choose to bring it here. I'm seeing M3/viewfinder bundles going for $550 -ish on eBay (body only for < $500) so if they introduce it here at $799 I think we may have a repeat of what happened with the original M. 

It's not so much the product itself as it is the asking price. This thing WILL sell if the price is right...


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## lw (Aug 4, 2015)

Apart from the attraction of existing Canon users using the M3 as a 2nd body, the M3 just doesn't stack up well against competitors IMO.
The weak lens line up, poor AF, very low FPS, no built-in EVF, lack of features like timelapse or wireless flash, poor video, high cost,... (the list is long)
I was a M user and was looking forward to the M3, but its disappointing capabilities, plus the stupid high price that the UK/EU want to charge for it (not to mention that they won't even sell you a body only in the UK but force you to buy another kit), made me decide to ditch the entire system. 

I really can't see many people in the US getting excited about the M3 becoming available, other than existing M users and die hard Canon aficionados


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## neech7 (Aug 4, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Are they also "discussing whether or not to"...
> 
> 
> Offer more than two native lenses in the US? (Perhaps one with USM someday?)
> ...



EVERY perspective? Does that include the IQ of native lenses like the 11-22 or 22/2? Or the build quality of the bodies? Give credit where credit is due.


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## ahsanford (Aug 4, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Americans like to buy _new_ things, not rebadged / rebranded / relaunched things.
> ...



Neuro, you misunderstand me. I don't mean Americans will be confused by the "3" in EOS-M3. I mean Americans want their tech _when it's released in the rest of the world_. This will seem like they are launching something that's already number of months old.

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 4, 2015)

neech7 said:


> EVERY perspective? Does that include the IQ of native lenses like the 11-22 or 22/2? Or the build quality of the bodies? Give credit where credit is due.



I hear you -- the brand is not a dud. It takes nice shots. It's just undercooked. 

The only camera I handhold in LiveView 12" away from my face _is my cell phone_. Canon needs to offer even a mid-range rig with an EVF or I'll never touch one.

(And that 11-22 is not available in the US )

- A


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## rrcphoto (Aug 4, 2015)

hmmm.

it really depends on the price - if they price it as aggressively as they did in Japan - perhaps. however if they price it the same as canon europe did, then well no - don't even bother.

the M3 is an alright camera - with japan pricing, it's probably the best bang for the buck out of any of the APS-C cameras once you consider the zooms are actually top notch consider the triple zoom kit which is the 11-22,18-55, 55-200 all perform very well, and the entire kit floats in at around a 1K to 1.2K.

the external EVF is great - I would rather have the external, tilting EVF than any in body non-tilting EVF, not to mention that you can use that EVF on the G1X Mark II and G3X - and I suspect the G series cameras will all go that way.

One bad thing never mentioned about the EOS-M3 is that it has powershot firmware - meaning that the firmware has decidedly changed from M2 to M3, and not in a good way - 1fps in AEB, and shot to shot times certainly could use to be improved, the amazingly elegant interactive LCD touchscreen is toast, as well as some other annoying features standard on the DSLR firmware.

IMO - canon USA shouldn't really look at this until the m4 - which is probably due out in 6 months anyways.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 4, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Also, EOS-M hasn't been a hit here before, why would it be a hit now? Americans like to buy _new_ things, not rebadged / rebranded / relaunched things.
> 
> They'd have to drop the price considerably, I think, and then (for better or worse) Americans might expect future EOS-M rigs to hit that lower price point. Canon might be wiser to wait for EOS-M4 and launch with the RoW to start at a higher price.
> 
> - A



+1. It comes down to price.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 4, 2015)

Act444 said:


> well...depends on what price point they settle on if they do choose to bring it here. I'm seeing M3/viewfinder bundles going for $550 -ish on eBay (body only for < $500) so if they introduce it here at $799 I think we may have a repeat of what happened with the original M.



Let's see when it was released I got two M3's + 2 EVF's plus the 11-22,18-55, 50-200mm kit for around 1400 USD.

the M3+EVF kits were around 450 USD - Canon Japan was/is very aggressive. (ebay isn't a good indicator btw).

Canon UK / Europe - not so much.

so it's really hard to say. if it's 1199 as a full kit, or 599 M3 + adapter + EVF.. maybe.

but .. 

to be fair, when the EOS-M was released, it WAS actually cheap - it just coincided with the US dollar being dreadfully low, so you can't look at the M pricing and assume much of anything.


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## Etienne (Aug 4, 2015)

rrcphoto said:


> hmmm.
> 
> it really depends on the price - if they price it as aggressively as they did in Japan - perhaps. however if they price it the same as canon europe did, then well no - don't even bother.
> 
> ...



The M series has potential, but they need to do it right. Put in DPAF (one of Canon's great recent innovations), good video performance. The little lenses are already quite nice. Make the M4 sing and charge appropriately.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 4, 2015)

Etienne said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > hmmm.
> ...



that wouldn't change much really. video? really?

they need to first fix the firmware up to DSLR standards, and work on shot to shot performance. then they need to figure out how to "over-crank" their sensor's FPS for the focus areas for faster CDAF / PDAF combinations such as what m43's does.

they need to put back the touchscreen UI that is in the DSLR's., they then need to re-upmarket the camera body .. it feels hollow and cheap compared to the M/M2. then work really on some compact kit zooms and maintain the small size of the EOS-M.

that would basically take them up to what the M3 should have been.

video? oh please.


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## Etienne (Aug 4, 2015)

rrcphoto said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



"video? oh please." So you are a "Stills Snob"

In case you haven't noticed, video is massively important. And a little camera that can take decent back up video for 5D3, or c100, would be awesome. Maybe you should lift your head out of the sand from time to time.


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## lilmsmaggie (Aug 4, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > For crop mirrorless, we have great selections to choose. I'm not sure this is a good move for Canon.
> ...





Same here. Would have been nice to have an EOS M on my trip to Mexico last month. 6D in the heat and humidity felt like toting a brick. Missed a lot of photo opportunities to shoot because I just didn't want to carry the 6D.

Something like the Fuji XT-1, SONY A7II or even the Powershot GX3 would have been preferable. 

The A7II with a Metabones adapter in particular to take advantage of existing EF glass.

Anywho -- maybe I can squeeze in another week in Mexico before years end, when its cooler and shooting with the 6D isn't an issue for me.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 4, 2015)

Etienne said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



Video is massively hyped.

Please show me any sales stats that state that video is making a difference in sales, or that significant investment of video OVER stills is more important in a digital camera.

1080p is fine for that .. 4-5 minutes of 4k is pointless considering how many other flaws it has.


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## andrewflo (Aug 4, 2015)

Great news I'd love to see Canon get more behind their EOS M system. This would be a step in the right direction.

I picked up an M3 in Japan for $380. Compared to my M1, it's a pretty solid upgrade. Build quality is worse, but feature set is much more mature. 

Not having any kind of warranty/service options in the US defeats its purpose a little for me though. The M to me is a carry along camera that if got damaged or otherwise, wouldn't be the absolute end of the world (I leave my DSLR behind when I don't want to worry about carrying thousands of dollars worth of equipment). But an imported M3 isn't exactly easy to replace.

Honestly the EOS M series is a really good companion compact camera for Canon shooters who already own a lot of Canon glass. Perfect B camera angle for video shoots, fits in large pant/jacket pockets (w/ 22mm pancake). There's a lot to like... would be even better with a few more lens options.


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## Ditboy (Aug 4, 2015)

I have one I bought through DigitalRev. I have all 4 Canon M lenses, the EOS adaptor that I mainly use with a 50mm f1.8 STM,2 Rokinons ( 12 f2 & 300 mirror), a FD 85mm 1.2L with adaptor and just bought a Kodak Extar 25mm f 1.9 Cine lens. The focus is much faster than the original M. Focus peaking works great, I use it with the 85mm 1.2 and can follow focus with it!. I use it more than my 6D and as a main camera a lot to save weight. AWB works better than any other Canon I use (6D, 70D & 7D II). Get the external EVF and it speeds up the shooting and handling a lot. What I would like Canon to do next is build an M with the body size of the G3x and throw in a dual phase chip. Built in eyepiece would be nice but the external works great. and primes. Lots more primes! Start with a 35mm f1.4 or f2. I am tempted to by a second M3 and relegate the 7D II to sports or long lens only. This camera has changed the way I shoot and think and made me less conspicuous while shooting. No one rinks I'm the guy from the newspaper anymore...


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## Rocky (Aug 4, 2015)

Amazon in Japan is selling M3 for about US$442 with the EVF.


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## Sportsgal501 (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm still on the fence on what mirror-less to get, came close last week but picked up an OB Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS USM for $450.0.
Been toying with it on my Canon 35mm film camera and like walking around with a feather . Definitely would get the body and the adapter if offered in the U.S.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 4, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



My point was that if the M3 shows up in a Best Buy store, most people likely will not know it's not 'new'. 

Possibly a more important concern for those who do know is when will there be an M4...


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## roxics (Aug 4, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Most wouldn't know it's 'relaunched'. Hopefully people here won't find the '3' confusing. If you recall the film, _The Madness of King George_ from the mid-90s, it was test-marketed as _The Madness of King George III_, because George III, played by Nigel Hawthorne, was the protagonist (he reigned during the American Revolution). But the testing marketing indicated people would not go see the film because they hadn't seen the two previous installments in the film series (_The Madness of King George I_ and _The Madness of King George II_). We're not big on history here.



While it's a nice story, it's also not true. Look it up. 

I've always thought the EOS M was cute. Especially in the stormtrooper white/black color and I'm not a big colored camera fan. I've almost pulled the trigger a couple times at the >$300 price point. But even then I backed off because of the lack of lens selection and knowing that a camera like this I would mostly use out at fairs and events where the sun is out and the LCD would be a disaster to view. Last thing I want to do is carry around a big magnetic loupe for a camera that is supposed to be portable. It really needs a built in EVF, even if at the expense of a smaller LCD rear screen.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 4, 2015)

roxics said:


> events where the sun is out and the LCD would be a disaster to view. Last thing I want to do is carry around a big magnetic loupe for a camera that is supposed to be portable. It really needs a built in EVF, even if at the expense of a smaller LCD rear screen.



never had to do that with the M, and certainly not the M3 with the EVF - and one of the cameras is full spectrum and only comes out in the brightest of light.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 4, 2015)

They can't be serious! At this late date, the discussions should revolve around whether the M4, with a built-in EVF, should be sold in the U.S. And Canon still needs a tiny native 15-85 lens and something like a Metabones Speed Booster.


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## twagn (Aug 4, 2015)

I'd say bring it.... along with the *four *native EF-M lens and anything else they want to throw in.


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## ahsanford (Aug 4, 2015)

twagn said:


> I'd say bring it.... along with the *four *native EF-M lens and anything else they want to throw in.



My EOS-M wishlist is not a terribly unreasonable one:


Integral EVF
One small form factor, EF-M native *USM* prime, like a 35mm or 50mm FF equivalent. It doesn't need to be pancake small, but something EF 24 f/2.8 IS sized (without an adapter!) would be A+
Quick one shot AF. I don't need tracking.

That's it. 

- A


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## cellomaster27 (Aug 4, 2015)

I may pull the trigger on the M3 when the M4 comes out.. that's how I purchased the original M for $250 with the kit lens. Been using it primarily for casual outings with the adapter if I want to use my other EF lenses. For the price that I paid, it's worth every bit. Sure the autofocus is bad and takes longer to change settings.. I think the M4 will be a good model seeing how the M3 came out. Hope that canon offers this in the US soon... M3 or M4.


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## mkabi (Aug 4, 2015)

rrcphoto said:


> Please show me any sales stats that state that video is making a difference in sales, or that significant investment of video OVER stills is more important in a digital camera.



Thats a pretty lame and over used argument.
"Show me stats of this" and "show me stats of that."
As if we are all staticians or analysts, with all kinds of data at our finger tips.

I'll be the first to admit, I wouldn't know where to look for stats about whether video in DSLR is making a difference in sales.

But, if you allow me to be just as lame, I can easily ask for stats that it doesn't make a difference?
You might as well look to find if the 5d mark 1 sold more than the 5d mark 2 or mark 3. And how come the nikon Df hasn't done so well?

Why even create a cinema line?


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## steyr (Aug 4, 2015)

Forget about launching the M3 in the US. Bring on the M4 with:
DPAF
4K video


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## rrcphoto (Aug 4, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> twagn said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say bring it.... along with the *four *native EF-M lens and anything else they want to throw in.
> ...



I would be disappointed with the integrated EVF - because they would have to change the size of the LCD for it to fit, and a integrated none tilting EVF on a small camera can be awkward.

depending on what eye you have to use, it becomes awkward as heck to change the focus point with the EVF fixed and your face smashed up against the camera (assuming range finder location).

also .. the NEX-5 / A5000 is selling surprisingly well.
the nex-5 uses an external EVF and somewhat oddly - the A5000 dropped support for an external EVF. (funny how no one nails sony for this .. )

IMO what is needed is two M models one more X-T1 fuji like (think classic canon rangefinder .. please) and the other the smaller camera the way it is sized now.

HOWEVER.

they have to get the firmware working fast. right now that camera is no where close to being sped competitive.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 5, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Amazon in Japan is selling M3 for about US$442 with the EVF.



Besides camera performance, the look is also important too...(to me of course). I still think Fuji X series has the best looking body design. Don't know why they not releasing FF mirrorless.

The EVF on current M3 reminded me my old RX1 EVF :-\


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 5, 2015)

mkabi said:


> Thats a pretty lame and over used argument.
> "Show me stats of this" and "show me stats of that."
> As if we are all staticians or analysts, with all kinds of data at our finger tips.
> 
> ...



The Nikon Df was clearly not intended to be mass-market. To a whole lot of people, video is an afterthought at best - including me. The argument from the pro-video crowd is always "but video is super easy to add!" followed immediately by "but they need to include zebras/ peaking/ million other features or it sucks!".

I don't give a damn about video. I want pictures I can scroll through as fast as I want, and focus on which I want to. Video means sitting back passively as it plays. Bah to that.


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 5, 2015)

jchung said:


> I think it would be great. Especially with the EOS M Mount adapter. No need for more lenses, just need a good body.
> 
> I just wish they would get rid of the touch screen display. I keep accidentally hitting random parts of the display as the body bounces against my belly.



What does the M3+adapter bring you over the SL1, or the rumored upcoming SL2?


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## ahsanford (Aug 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Besides camera performance, the look is also important too...(to me of course). I still think Fuji X series has the best looking body design. Don't know why they not releasing FF mirrorless.



It probably has a little something to do with that hundred million dollar investment for a new mount and all new lenses.

You know... _That_. 

- A


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## Dylan777 (Aug 5, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Besides camera performance, the look is also important too...(to me of course). I still think Fuji X series has the best looking body design. Don't know why they not releasing FF mirrorless.
> ...



Some people willing to wait 20-30mins to fill gas at Costco to save 5-10cents. Others would use that time to do something else. Life :

If adding one or two native lenses to mirrorless kit is too much, then it doesn't really matter what brands you buy. Besides, what is the point buying mirrorless - less money? EVF? Focus peaking? or it's the size and weight?


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



I think he meant that _Fuji_ would have to drop a hundred million on a new mount and new lenses for that mount...


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## Solar Eagle (Aug 5, 2015)

After Canon Japan publically called Canon USA stubborn for not offering the EOS-M they have to at least discuss it. Its got to be a bit embarrassing for Canon USA to be called out like that....


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 5, 2015)

The problem in my mind is that the "M" does not have a clear target market. Canon stated when it first came out that the target was for Japanese women :

A product market needs to be clearly communicated, and features should match the expectations of the market.


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## mkabi (Aug 5, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> The Nikon Df was clearly not intended to be mass-market. To a whole lot of people, video is an afterthought at best - including me. The argument from the pro-video crowd is always "but video is super easy to add!" followed immediately by "but they need to include zebras/ peaking/ million other features or it sucks!".
> 
> I don't give a damn about video. I want pictures I can scroll through as fast as I want, and focus on which I want to. Video means sitting back passively as it plays. Bah to that.



Yes... Yes... Another personal anecdote. Thank you.
Just cause you don't care for it or don't use it, doesn't mean the majority does not want it. 

Apparently, "97% of DSLR buyers don't buy anything other than the kit lens that their cameras came with..." I got that somewhere in this forum.... Too lazy to look for it and link it cause I'm at a friggin hospital waiting room on a tiny 4.7" smartphone typing this up. As you can see.... Im bored. 
Anyway, would it be fair if I grouped you with those that don't own a single lens other than the kit lens? Well... Atleast I hope not. 

Didn't Canon just celebrate 100 millions lens created/sold?
In any case, you know what they say if you "ASSuME" things, right?


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## Jamesy (Aug 5, 2015)

Bring it! I bought mine in Japan with an EVF when it came out and it is a great backup to my 5D3. I travel with the M3 do portraits and studio product shots with the 5D3.


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## unfocused (Aug 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> I still think Fuji X series has the best looking body design. Don't know why they not releasing FF mirrorless.



This is why: http://photorumors.com/2015/07/01/fuji-explains-why-they-do-not-have-a-full-frame-camera/



> We gave a lot of thought to this, and reached our conclusion that APS-C is the best format for the optimum balance of body size and image quality.





> ...in order to maximize the use of the sensor size, the lens will be very bulky and heavy.





> We aimed for the system with the optimum balance of high image quality and compact lightweight body that professionals can use. With that idea in mind, we came to the conclusion that the APS-C mirrorless system is the way to go as opposed to full frame D-SLR.


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## bf (Aug 5, 2015)

If they do, I wish they offer a pricing approach like Japan. They do their homework and polish the firmware beforehand. They also need to advertise a little bit or pay us to do so.


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## deleteme (Aug 5, 2015)

Sadly, I cannot see the appeal of this camera line at all in its present iteration.

Whether you like Canon or not, this camera enters a field already crowded with much more ambitious competitors. A short list of lenses and prices that are (MSRP) unrealistic mean this camera will be purchased by hardcore Canon users or those impressed by the Canon name.

I would like to think that Canon is using this as a subsidized testbed for its incorporation of ML tech into its FF pro and semi-pro cameras.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 5, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > I still think Fuji X series has the best looking body design. Don't know why they not releasing FF mirrorless.
> ...



Their longer FL lenses and fast zooms are not that small. The game is quite simple, they don't want to lose crop lines = $$$. 

Keep in mind, I used to own x100s and I do know what their high ISO look like.


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## Zv (Aug 5, 2015)

For me the appeal of the M line is simply a much smaller camera that can do almost everything a regular rebel DSLR can. You can put it in places a DSLR just won't fit or hang it off a bridge using nothing more than a Gorillapod. With that alone you can get creative. No need to lug a giant tripod when you're hiking. You can even make time lapse movies with it using ML (tried it recently - works). It's also quite robust. I've been abusing the heck out of it - rain, humidity, dust and it's still going. No reason to think it won't. 

Lenses? Well Rokinon make some really cool lenses for the M system. Small and compact you get even more creative options. Plus the 11-22 lesson is just amazing. For those who live in the wide to normal focal lenghs the M system is awesome. Sucks a bit for telephoto. And that's where you really need a DSLR. But that's OK. This is not a do everything camera in my opinion. 

Then there is the option of using EF lenses. Awesome now I have a back up camera and a teleconvertor all in one! 

So when you consider that the M3 has faster AF and a few more tricks that the M1/2 didn't have you have a pretty useful little tool. Canon just needs to sell it better because it is not just a camera for Japanese women! Lol!


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## Solar Eagle (Aug 5, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> A product market needs to be clearly communicated, and features should match the expectations of the market.



Gets into the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" zone, where it's anybody's guess . There will always be a circle of people around every choice made, and even when staying dead center and letting the people decide the people will complain that they have choice, but are not being catered too. I mean I want chicken on my plate now, Canon. Chicken!!! And give that guy duck!!!


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## DarkKnightNine (Aug 5, 2015)

Had this camera two days after it's release here in Japan and returned it two days after that.
Great ergonomics, felt awesome in my hands, but I just wasn't satisfied with the image quality.
I guess I was spoiled by the look of images coming out of my 1DX or 5DIII. 
Admittedly, I probably should have spent more time with it and might have actually grown to like this camera, but there are just so many better spec'd cameras on the market with better lens support that I really don't see this selling well in North America. I personally ended up with the Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II for my walk-around kit and I LOVE IT!!! Canon really needs to start supporting this system more seriously if they expect to sell well against the competition.


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## Luds34 (Aug 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Amazon in Japan is selling M3 for about US$442 with the EVF.
> ...



Completely agree. The external EVF just adds so much bulk and size. I love that the original M (with 22mm pancake) can fit in a Lowepro Dashpoint 20. That's tiny!


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## NorbR (Aug 5, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> Completely agree. The external EVF just adds so much bulk and size. I love that the original M (with 22mm pancake) can fit in a Lowepro Dashpoint 20. That's tiny!



For the record, the M3 with the 22mm also fits in the same Lowepro Dashpoint 20. It's tighter than the original M ... but it fits


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## Dylan777 (Aug 5, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The problem in my mind is that the "M" does not have a clear target market. Canon stated when it first came out that the target was for Japanese women :
> 
> A product market needs to be clearly communicated, and features should match the expectations of the market.



My take, Canon didn't put their best/heart in designing the M. I do feel they made a right decision for them - cont. to be a leader in DSLR and provide even better L lenses.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > The problem in my mind is that the "M" does not have a clear target market. Canon stated when it first came out that the target was for Japanese women :
> ...



It was successful in its home market for which it was designed. It wasn't designed as a DSLR replacement; it's more of a P&S with the ability to change lenses.


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## scrup (Aug 5, 2015)

What's the point in offering it now, those that want it would of got it off Ebay already. 

Prices are almost always cheaper there. I guess one good point is that competition will help lower the price of grey imports of the m3 further. But I have no need for another M3. Next camera will be a a7ii once it comes down to the 1k mark for body only.


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## Luds34 (Aug 5, 2015)

NorbR said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Completely agree. The external EVF just adds so much bulk and size. I love that the original M (with 22mm pancake) can fit in a Lowepro Dashpoint 20. That's tiny!
> ...



Good to know, thank you!


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## I M STIG (Aug 5, 2015)

While I think it's a great idea to offer the M3 here, finally, I think it could be too late. I just -finally- ordered mine off eBay yesterday, and hopefully it'll be here in a few days. I have the original M with the 22 f/2, and then I've just continued to find and buy old FD and OSM lenses. 

In order for it to work they'd have to offer it as standard with the EF/EF-S adapter, as well as the EVF at a cheaper price, in my opinion. I have all of the adapters, even one for a CCTV lens that I love. And having a 6D and 60D with a whole host of full frame and crop lenses to use, I don't find any need to complain. 

I bought the M before the craze really hit and was able to grab it for about $300 with the 22mm lens, flash, and the EF/EF-S adapter. 

The best way to sell the M3 in the States is to push it towards current DSLR users in general. Show them there's an adapter to use for any lens ever made, and they may come a'runnin'. 

How awesome would it be if they gave us an M3 MkII with 2K or 4K video, and basically the same amount of focus points as the new 5DS/R?


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## archiea (Aug 5, 2015)

I've had an M2 for several months now, having upgraded from the original M. I agree that it has the G- series build quality with the powershot os in it, vs the Original M's all metal body and at lease Rebel OS in it. I love the M3, it rocks alongside my 5D markIII. I sometimes use it ona job as a second camera with the tiltable screen as well as a "behind the scenes" capture camera that can quickly be swapped into my strobe setup by simply putting the canon speedlight remote on it. I can't emphasize the importance of that. 

Problem is that canon is an optical viewfinder with its technology based in that while its competitors embraced the EVF route (Becuase they were comsumer based) and are years ahead. Canon's "Live View" is still stuck in 2008 with some updates. it hasn't seen the technology advancements that its optical AF system has seen. I;m sure its coming but it would have to be a whole new system, not just a repurposed "live view" mode. check out DPreview's video review of the latest fuji. Check out the tech on a modern mirrorless: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9xJTrHJHc

Lets not even bring up Sony. 

I hope they do sell it here but it would have to be $600 tops with the EVF. Its tough because canon has smaller cameras around that price with fixed lenses, and you are telling someone that just paid $600 that they need to spend more money on lenses. From a consumer market place I can see canon USA having its doubts. From the stand point of a photographer that takes that little piece of tech, I put range finder lenses on it, using the new focus peaking tool, and also using my existing canon radio strobes to make amazing images in a compact high tech system.. I luv it, warts and all!


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## Dylan777 (Aug 5, 2015)

Random Orbits said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



At the same time, others went above and beyong


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## Random Orbits (Aug 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



With a higher price at the time.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2015)

Random Orbits said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Random Orbits said:
> ...



True...it's worth it?


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## Random Orbits (Aug 6, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



For an increasing number of people, but still not the majority. The thing with the Fujis, Sonys, Samsungs is that the mirrorless line is their main line of product. They lost the DSLR war, so they had to do something different, and that is why they need a larger lens family for their mirrorless lines.

I'm not convinced that Canon needs to follow suit. Once the technology is there, the DSLRs can be replaced with mirrorless counterparts. Faster sync speeds, higher frame rate, etc. once they improve the EVF and battery drain, and AF, but it won't be much smaller. As more FE lenses are coming out that have direct SLR counterparts, it is becoming clearer that mirrorless may reduce the body size, but a lot of the lenses will be just as big. The Zeiss FE f/1.4 is heavier and larger than the 35L.

The M may also have it's place. Slow lenses but compact, which is what it offers now. The M was designed for portability, which is why its lenses have slow apertures (except the 22 f/2). I brought the M, 11-22, 22, 18-55 and 55-200 in a Lowepro Format 120. It offers a wide focal length range in a small size, but it was horrible indoors when the light was dim (in an aquarium with the 55-200). That is the trade you make with the native M system.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2015)

Random Orbits said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Random Orbits said:
> ...



You made great points in term of large aperture FF mirrorless lenses. Let's not forget about the zooms too - not really size and weight saving.

When we look at Canon M, Sony a7 and Fuji X series none of these cameras are pocketable. Sony a7 packed with 35mm sensor and the body size is about the same. When we really want light/small FE28mm, FE35mm and FE55mm are great lenses. A7s is clearly shows us, we can get lot more with f4 lenses.

I'm sound like a Sony guy right? I was introduced to Canon DSLR late 2008 - 40D, 60D, 7D, 5D II, 5D III and now 1Dx. These are great cameras. I'm now also own a7s. To be honest, the a7s series is not bad at all


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 6, 2015)

I came here from Photo Rumors dot com. They mentioned theM3.

For the most part, ALL my Canon gear (SLRs, DSLRs and lenses) is gone. So having Canon lenses is not a factor anymore. I'd still be interested if the price were right. The selling price can't be higher than the Sony α5100, $448.00 at B&H (body only).

I need more primes than the EF-M 22mm f/2 STM. A 10mm and an 85mm would be a good start.

I started with Canon in the 1980s. I've switched to Sony. If Canon wants me back, I need a Pro M that is better than the Sony α6000.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 6, 2015)

> As more FE lenses are coming out that have direct SLR counterparts, it is becoming clearer that mirrorless may reduce the body size, but a lot of the lenses will be just as big. The Zeiss FE f/1.4 is heavier and larger than the 35L.



From my point of view, Full Frame is the wrong format for today. The camera market is dying. CaNiSony would like everyone to switch to the more profitable, for them, Full Frame. Ain't gonna happen.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 6, 2015)

archiea said:


> ... From a consumer market place I can see canon USA having its doubts.
> 
> 
> > There is NO consumer market place. That's just wishful thinking. The SmartPhone has kicked the camera to the curb.
> ...


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## Random Orbits (Aug 6, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> You made great points in term of large aperture FF mirrorless lenses. Let's not forget about the zooms too - not really size and weight saving.
> 
> When we look at Canon M, Sony a7 and Fuji X series none of these cameras are pocketable. Sony a7 packed with 35mm sensor and the body size is about the same. When we really want light/small FE28mm, FE35mm and FE55mm are great lenses. A7s is clearly shows us, we can get lot more with f4 lenses.
> 
> I'm sound like a Sony guy right? I was introduced to Canon DSLR late 2008 - 40D, 60D, 7D, 5D II, 5D III and now 1Dx. These are great cameras. I'm now also own a7s. To be honest, the a7s series is not bad at all



I'm hoping the 5DIV has what the C300II has -- 15 stops of DR throughout its ISO range.


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## justsomedude (Aug 6, 2015)

Is it just me or does Canon seem lost in the woods?

With the a6000 (and similar units) dominating as it has, why would anyone even look at the M3? And now with the A7RII, I don't know how much longer I can even bother to keep my Canon gear.

Man, checking in here just makes me sad anymore. And let me guess, the 5D4 will have the same old .5-1 stop improvement, with the same shadow noise. Sigh... I didn't leave you, Canon, you left me.


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## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2015)

How come EOS M2 and M3 isn't on the North America market in the first place?

The M1 didn't sell much? or is it too small for you guys or something?


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## ahsanford (Aug 6, 2015)

justsomedude said:


> Is it just me or does Canon seem lost in the woods?
> 
> With the a6000 (and similar units) dominating as it has, why would anyone even look at the M3?



I don't think there's a soul alive that thinks the EOS-M platform was built to _compete_ with anything or anyone. It was built as:

1) An experiment to net Canon some experience at designing/buliding/marketing a mirrorless ILC product. 

2) A second body for Canon users with a lot of glass

3) A small effort to placate Canon owners with mirrorless leanings that Canon will offer/support/grow such a product line.

Nowhere on that list is the phrase 'Be the best', 'Offer the most comprehensive', etc. The difference between what's on that list and being the biggest/best mirrorless company is probably two more zeros behind Canon's investment. So Canon is perfectly happy to offer something very rudimentary and non-sexy until they have concrete numbers that show their imaging business is tanking specifically at the hands of mirrorless. 

And then they will come big, likely with a FF mirrorless platform. But we're not there yet.

- A


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## sunnyVan (Aug 6, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me or does Canon seem lost in the woods?
> ...



+1


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## AvTvM (Aug 6, 2015)

It is not the EF-M lenses that are lacklustre. The EOS-M bodies - including M3 - are totally lacklustre. Subpar sensor, subpar AF-system, and no EVF at all, not even a subpar one. 
The EF-M lens lineup is very well sorted. All of them more than wortj their very reasonable price. The 11-22 is actually the very best APS-C ultra-wide angle not only from canon but in the entire market, mirrorless and DSLR. No fuji or sony lens to match it. The EF-m 22/2.0 is great as well, nothing lacklustre about it, despite tiny size and refreshingly low price. eF-M 18-55 is easily as good as the best other APS-C kit zooms. The 55-200 is fully competitive with any other similar APS-C telezoom currently available.
The only thing lacking is a similarly and compact EF-M short tele/portrait prime: EF-M 75/1.8 STM would be great. Ehat is not need is a 55/1.8 sonyzeiss lens for a grand or a 35/2.8 at 600 euro or some of those ludicrously expensive abd fat guji x-lenses like a totally srnseless APS-C only 56/1.2 lens if the same effect can be had with a 120 euro 50/1.8 STM on FF body.


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## ahsanford (Aug 6, 2015)

AvTvM said:


> It is not the EF-M lenses that are lacklustre. The EOS-M bodies - including M3 - are totally lacklustre. Subpar sensor, subpar AF-system, and no EVF at all, not even a subpar one.
> The EF-M lens lineup is very well sorted. All of them more than wortj their very reasonable price. The 11-22 is actually the very best APS-C ultra-wide angle not only from canon but in the entire market, mirrorless and DSLR. No fuji or sony lens to match it. The EF-m 22/2.0 is great as well, nothing lacklustre about it, despite tiny size and refreshingly low price. eF-M 18-55 is easily as good as the best other APS-C kit zooms. The 55-200 is fully competitive with any other similar APS-C telezoom currently available.
> The only thing lacking is a similarly and compact EF-M short tele/portrait prime: EF-M 75/1.8 STM would be great. Ehat is not need is a 55/1.8 sonyzeiss lens for a grand or a 35/2.8 at 600 euro or some of those ludicrously expensive abd fat guji x-lenses like a totally srnseless APS-C only 56/1.2 lens if the same effect can be had with a 120 euro 50/1.8 STM on FF body.



Respectfully, there's more to a lens than the 'sharpness per dollar' value proposition -- otherwise, the entire market would shoot with the 40 f/2.8 STM and the new 50 f/1.8 STM. 

Personally, I'd like the EF-M lenses to focus before next Tuesday -- and that's not entirely the camera body's fault. Until there are native EF-M USM lenses, the size savings of mirrorless are lost as I'll always need an adapter.

Canon needs to give us a reason to take EOS-M seriously. Fast focusing lenses and an integral EVF would be a great start.

- A


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## AvTvM (Aug 6, 2015)

Ring-USM AF as found in the better L lenses is best. But STM us not bad either. With the possible exception of the 22/2.0 slow focusing with EF-M lenses is absolutely and entirely the M/M2/m3 bodies fault. The EF-M 18-55 STM is ea total clone of the EF-S version, which focuses rather decently on a 7D II. Canon has just not been able and willing to stick a really good, fully competitive with Sony A6000 PF-AF/hybrid AF system into any of the M bodies to date. cameras.


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## ahsanford (Aug 6, 2015)

AvTvM said:


> Ring-USM AF as found in the better L lenses is best. But STM us not bad either. With the possible exception of the 22/2.0 slow focusing with EF-M lenses is absolutely and entirely the M/M2/m3 bodies fault. The EF-M 18-55 STM is ea total clone of the EF-S version, which focuses rather decently on a 7D II. Canon has just not been able and willing to stick a really good, fully competitive with Sony A6000 PF-AF/hybrid AF system into any of the M bodies to date. cameras.



Fair points on the body AF component to this, but I'm not being clear on the lenses. I don't want to focus rather decently -- I want to focus _instantly_. USM most closely fulfills that expectation of mine.

- A


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## Sportsgal501 (Aug 7, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> How come EOS M2 and M3 isn't on the North America market in the first place?
> 
> The M1 didn't sell much? or is it too small for you guys or something?



Did they even advertise for the M1?
Sounds like it was an experiment to test the mirror-less market, I would have brought if I knew about it.


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## noncho (Aug 7, 2015)

Well, I have M + 3 lenses. I have tested M3. It's still lagging behind other mirror less, I find it very near to what Samsung NX300 is(2013). No tele primes - no more interest from me. Here is my M3 walk around with samples - http://www.nonchoiliev.com/blog/2767 (use Google translate from Bulgarian).


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## [email protected] (Aug 7, 2015)

Sportsgal501 said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > How come EOS M2 and M3 isn't on the North America market in the first place?
> ...



Well, I don't know about North America. But in Japan, Canon did huge advertisement for EOS M1.
And people who bought the product complain about "slow AF".
Personally, I didn't care about that problem because I wasn't expect M1 for sport-shooting or any other moving-target photos.

Anyway,

In Japan, the M1 sold very good numbers, especially after the price dropped.
Maybe it's not the way Canon wanted, but many people end up owning EF-M lenses.
So Canon can develop M2 and M3.

Maybe Canon thinks there's not much EF-M lense owners in North America.
I don't know.

But if they start selling M3 in U.S., go try it out.
As the one of EOS M and M3 owners, the M3 has improve much, much more from M1.

(Still, not recommend for sport-shooting though.)


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## Jamesy (Aug 8, 2015)

I wonder if 'North America' in this case includes both USA and Canada? As we know each country has autonomy in what they bring in.


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## Dihatten (Aug 8, 2015)

Got tired of waiting for Canon and went head with buying the M3 body from Japan. I'll take my chances with the warranty. I've owned Canon cameras for years and never had a warranty issue. Oh...and I love it! Not perfect maybe, but the images are fabulous!


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## Luds34 (Aug 10, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Ring-USM AF as found in the better L lenses is best. But STM us not bad either. With the possible exception of the 22/2.0 slow focusing with EF-M lenses is absolutely and entirely the M/M2/m3 bodies fault. The EF-M 18-55 STM is ea total clone of the EF-S version, which focuses rather decently on a 7D II. Canon has just not been able and willing to stick a really good, fully competitive with Sony A6000 PF-AF/hybrid AF system into any of the M bodies to date. cameras.
> ...



Lenses that focus instantly, wow that isn't a high bar or anything. 

The STM in the pancakes lenses (EF-M 22, EF-S 24, and EF 40) are slow (I find them reasonable as long as you are pulling through the whole focal range, MFD to infinity). However, the STM in the kit lenses etc that I have used are on par with USM for focus speed. A little slower then the fastest USM (70-200 variants, 85 f/1.8 etc) but probably faster then the slowest USMs (think 85 f/1.2L).

The fact is that the M just does not focus very fast. It also needs higher contrast, less movement, etc to focus as well compared to any of the DSLRs. I was surprised (disappointed) with how much it struggled to focus at times at my young daughters swim lessons.


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## heart+eyes (Aug 27, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that Canon USA is currently discussing whether or not to bring the EOS M3 to the United States. Discussions are ongoing and a decision will be made soon.</p></p>



A quick search for "ef-m" on shop.usa.canon.com site shows these EF-M lenses:
- 22mm 
- 55-200
- 11-22 

and two EOS M3 kits will be available on 10/4/15.

I think it's fair to say that Canon USA has made their decision!!


http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/SearchDisplay?categoryId=&storeId=10051&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&searchSource=Q&pageView=&beginIndex=0&pageSize=18&searchTerm=ef-m


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## josephandrews222 (Aug 27, 2015)

heart+eyes said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > We’re told that Canon USA is currently discussing whether or not to bring the EOS M3 to the United States. Discussions are ongoing and a decision will be made soon.</p></p>
> ...




That is a great find. Well played!


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## Jamesy (Aug 27, 2015)

Both B+H and Adorama have the M3 and 11-22 and 55-250 in stock too (or perhaps pre-order) so it is out in the wild.


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