# Just returned a Sony Alpha 7R III after a week



## clicstudio (Aug 5, 2018)

I have been using Canon since 2001. I Currently have a 1DX Mark II. I am a full time pro photographer doing fashion, glamour and now architectural photos. I wanted to try the Sony for a while after seeing all the great reviews. I only have one lens (24-70 2.8) and that's all I need. I don't do video on the camera or need 10fps. I just wanted better dynamic range and more Mega Pixels.

The camera takes great photos but it is NOT a professional camera. Maybe I am spoiled by how easy it is to work with a Canon camera, but I find the Sony to be absolutely impossible to use for fast work. The ergonomics are just awful. Nothing is in the right place or within reach of your fingers. The camera, even with the grip, is too small, too skinny and to light for its own 24-70 lens, which, by the way, is too big, heavy and long compared to the Canon. Nothing wrong with a big lens, but when the grip of the camera is so skinny, it becomes a problem. The EVF is horrible. It flickers at night with lights and it "lies". You never know what you are going to get. It is either too bright or too dark and everything looks artificial. It has a proximity sensor for switching from EVF to LCD but if the camera is on a table and you are trying to go thru the menus or look at photos, the sensor thinks your hands are your face and it will turn off the LCD in favor of the EVF. Totally stupid. The Menus and interface are super slow. Like everything else on the camera, it takes time. Nothing like the "instant everything" on the Canon. The battery has a bad life and Housed in a plastic container in the grip, it looks cheap and "consumer"... My main problem with the camera is the EVF/LCD combo. Let's say you take a photo looking thru the EVF; there are a couple of choices for auto review: 1 is off, 2 seconds, etc. So, turn it off, and the EVF is blank and ready for another photo, but you don't see the photo you just took unless you click the play button, which takes a bit of time, btw... So, choose 2 seconds, you see the photo on the LCD but ALSO on the EVF. So, you don't really know of you are looking at the live image or the one you just took until you press the shutter half way!  

Quality wise, it is an impressive camera. The photos are just perfect. Great focusing, great Dynamic Range and accurate colors, but in my opinion and for my needs, it doesn't work. It is not a true Professional camera. It's great for tripod and studio work or landscapes but if you need ergonomics to change things on the fly while shooting, it sucks. Sadly, it is not for me. I really wanted to like it but I am disappointed. Hopefully Canon will introduce a mirrorless camera in September at Photokina. I will wait and stick with my 1DX II until then. Back to B&H the Alpha a7R III goes. Happy Shooting!


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## Click (Aug 5, 2018)

Thanks for sharing your experience. The grass is not always greener...


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## Quirkz (Aug 5, 2018)

I’m curious: if you don’t need high FPS, and want more pixels, did you try the 5d4 or 5dsr? Same familiar ergonomics.
If so, what were your reasons for dismissing in favor of the a7 series?


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## Maximilian (Aug 5, 2018)

Click said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. The grass is not always greener...


+1 here



clicstudio said:


> ...
> The ergonomics are just awful. Nothing is in the right place or within reach of your fingers. The camera, even with the grip, is too small, too skinny and to light for its own 24-70 lens, which, by the way, is too big, heavy and long compared to the Canon. Nothing wrong with a big lens, but when the grip of the camera is so skinny, it becomes a problem. ...


Maybe those that are always in favour for the small (_edit:_) _FF_ MILC bodies with dedicated lenses because of size read this.
This is what has always been said.

FF+MILC+wide aperture (or professional zooms) = NOT SMALL, but an ergonomic nightmare.
OR you'll need a body sized like a xD series. Let't see how Conon is interpreting this job.

Thank you, clicstudio, for confirming this here.


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## StoicalEtcher (Aug 5, 2018)

Very interesting hands-on (or half-off?) feedback. Thanks for sharing.

Not knocking your feedback either, but would more time with the camera have helped the muscle/finger memory of how to use it, or is the layout just that badly thought out that it wouldn't make a difference?


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## clicstudio (Aug 6, 2018)

Quirkz said:


> I’m curious: if you don’t need high FPS, and want more pixels, did you try the 5d4 or 5dsr? Same familiar ergonomics.
> If so, what were your reasons for dismissing in favor of the a7 series?


The dynamic range of Canon still lags behind Nikon and Sony... You have to see the quality of the Sony camera, it's impressive. Sadly it is not in a Canon body...


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## clicstudio (Aug 6, 2018)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Very interesting hands-on (or half-off?) feedback. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Not knocking your feedback either, but would more time with the camera have helped the muscle/finger memory of how to use it, or is the layout just that badly thought out that it wouldn't make a difference?


I spent enough time with it to know it won't work for me. The quality of the photos is incredible. Much better than Canon, but the dials, the menus, the lag and latency and the slow operation are the deal breakers for me.


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## clicstudio (Aug 6, 2018)

Click said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. The grass is not always greener...


the grass looks a lot greener on the Sony that it does on Canon  Too bad.


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## Quirkz (Aug 6, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> The dynamic range of Canon still lags behind Nikon and Sony... You have to see the quality of the Sony camera, it's impressive. Sadly it is not in a Canon body...



What exactly is so much better? I’m honestly curious. Data shows that the 5d4 is less than a stop difference in DR, and there’s only a what, 12 or 14MP difference? Did that really make such a difference for your style of shooting? ( I know it’s barely significant for my casual travel photography  )


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## clicstudio (Aug 6, 2018)

Quirkz said:


> What exactly is so much better? I’m honestly curious. Data shows that the 5d4 is less than a stop difference in DR, and there’s only a what, 12 or 14MP difference? Did that really make such a difference for your style of shooting? ( I know it’s barely significant for my casual travel photography  )


I have the best Canon and the Sony. That extra stop in DR is huge. Believe it or not. I did a side by side comparison and I was blown away with the Sony and the way you can push the highlights/shadows without any loss in quality. Trust me, I did all the possible tests and the Sony blows anything from Canon away. I wish I could remove the Sony sensor snd put it into the Canon's body!!


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## StoicalEtcher (Aug 6, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> I spent enough time with it to know it won't work for me. The quality of the photos is incredible. Much better than Canon, but the dials, the menus, the lag and latency and the slow operation are the deal breakers for me.


Okay - thanks.


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## sebasan (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> I have the best Canon and the Sony. That extra stop in DR is huge. Believe it or not. I did a side by side comparison and I was blown away with the Sony and the way you can push the highlights/shadows without any loss in quality. Trust me, I did all the possible tests and the Sony blows anything from Canon away. I wish I could remove the Sony sensor snd put it into the Canon's body!!



That's not true. A lot of people (Dustin Abbot for example) which I believe them a lot more than a anonymous forum writer, have done comparisons between the 5D IV, D850 and A7RIII and the difference in dynamic range is not that big (of course, there is a little advantage to the sony sensors). Claim that the sensors from sony "blow away" the canon sensor is an exageration, even a lie. And, if you are so interested in dynamic range, you can gain an extra stop using dual pixel raw, now that you have a canon 5d mark IV.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

sebasan said:


> That's not true. A lot of people (Dustin Abbot for example) which I believe them a lot more than a anonymous forum writer, have done comparisons between the 5D IV, D850 and A7RIII and the difference in dynamic range is not that big (of course, there is a little advantage to the sony sensors). Claim that the sensors from sony "blow away" the canon sensor is an exageration, even a lie. And, if you are so interested in dynamic range, you can gain an extra stop using dual pixel raw, now that you have a canon 5d mark IV.



First of all I don't like being called a liar. Your comment is out of line. Second I am not an anonymous forum writer. I have been a Pro for 17 years and have 2 websites and my own studio, so, anonymous my A$$. Second, I own a 1DX II, not a 5D IV.
Third, who gave you the right to question my review? DO you have both Canon and Sony cameras to do a real side by side compraro? No. Then whoever Dustin Abbot is, I don't care. I know what I am doing and the Sony is MUCH better than any Canon available today. I don't have to read someone else's reviews to see if a camera or lens work for me. I know what I need and I know what to do to make sure I fully use the equipment to it's full potential. That's what this is all about. I have 2 of the best cameras in the market and they both lack something... I am not going to waste my time anymore and show you the side by side samples because then I will make you feel bad and you will have to shove your words on the other side of your intestinal system. Go learn photography and stop reading anonymous forum writer's posts.


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## Quirkz (Aug 7, 2018)

Let’s all get back to being civil, shall we? With that said:

Try borrow a 5d4 from somewhere and do the same test. The 5d4 sensor is a significant improvement over the 1dx 2. 

You might find it a better fit for your needs, and at the very least, I’d be interested in hearing whether you changed your mind and the reasons after you looked at a 5d4.


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## Nelu (Aug 7, 2018)

Quirkz said:


> Let’s all get back to being civil, shall we? With that said:
> 
> Try borrow a 5d4 from somewhere and do the same test. The 5d4 sensor is a significant improvement over the 1dx 2.
> 
> You might find it a better fit for your needs, and at the very least, I’d be interested in hearing whether you changed your mind and the reasons after you looked at a 5d4.


I do own and use Canon 5D Mark IV and Canon 1DX (Mark 1, the original one, not mark 2 though...) and I have to say that while the 5D Mark IV greatly improved over its predecessor (Canon 5D Mark III), I don't see much change in the sensor, as opposed to Canon 1DX. Not at low ISO, not at high ISO.
Since Canon 1DX Mark II is supposed to be better than the first generation I would think it's also better than 5D Mark IV.

With my 5D Mark IV when shooting landscapes it's possible that the contrast is way to huge for the camera to handle, especially for photos taken around noon. I know you're not "supposed" to do that but as a tourist visiting a remote location you don't always have the luxury to return for the golden hour.
As I said, the 5D Mark IV is better than 5D Mark III when lifting shadows and (or) recovering highlights but it could be better. Other than that, I just love that camera!

Nelu


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## takesome1 (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> First of all I don't like being called a liar. Your comment is out of line. Second I am not an anonymous forum writer. I have been a Pro for 17 years and have 2 websites and my own studio, so, anonymous my A$$. Second, I own a 1DX II, not a 5D IV.
> Third, who gave you the right to question my review? DO you have both Canon and Sony cameras to do a real side by side compraro? No. Then whoever Dustin Abbot is, I don't care. I know what I am doing and the Sony is MUCH better than any Canon available today. I don't have to read someone else's reviews to see if a camera or lens work for me. I know what I need and I know what to do to make sure I fully use the equipment to it's full potential. That's what this is all about. I have 2 of the best cameras in the market and they both lack something... I am not going to waste my time anymore and show you the side by side samples because then I will make you feel bad and you will have to shove your words on the other side of your intestinal system. Go learn photography and stop reading anonymous forum writer's posts.



Well you did say "_Sony blows *anything* from Canon away." _
Maybe Sebasan would not have taken offense if you had just said it blew Canon's flagship 1D XII away.

I got lost in your OP review and cheated to the important part. I wanted to know the final decision.
I think the last line of your OP said all I needed to hear.
_"I will wait and stick with my 1DX II until then. Back to B&H the Alpha a7R III goes. Happy Shooting "_


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## Jester74 (Aug 7, 2018)

And who gave you the right to call Dustin Abbot 'whoever'? GIYF


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## takesome1 (Aug 7, 2018)

Jester74 said:


> And who gave you the right to call Dustin Abbot 'whoever'? *GIYF*



I strongly disagree with this, it is not a friend.


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## Jester74 (Aug 7, 2018)

takesome1 said:


> I strongly disagree with this, it is not a friend.


Agreed.... And it's Abbott, not Abbot... Sorry, Dustin, apologies...


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## Mikehit (Aug 7, 2018)

Jester74 said:


> And who gave you the right to call Dustin Abbot 'whoever'? GIYF



I have to agree with clicstudio - if he has found that the Canon camers do not match up under his requirements then does it matter what Dustin Abbot thinks? For myself I will take the views of a reviewer into account when buying gear, but once I have it in my hands the only person's view that matters is my own. If it does not match someone else's then I decide if there is more to investigate and that decision will depend on the reputation they have.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

Quirkz said:


> Let’s all get back to being civil, shall we? With that said:
> 
> Try borrow a 5d4 from somewhere and do the same test. The 5d4 sensor is a significant improvement over the 1dx 2.
> 
> ...


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## AlanF (Aug 7, 2018)

Here are reliable measurements of the DRs of the 1DXII, 5DIV and A7RIII. In the iso ranges I work in, they are all about the same.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Char...X Mark II,Canon EOS 5D Mark IV,Sony ILCE-7RM3


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

Nelu said:


> I do own and use Canon 5D Mark IV and Canon 1DX (Mark 1, the original one, not mark 2 though...) and I have to say that while the 5D Mark IV greatly improved over its predecessor (Canon 5D Mark III), I don't see much change in the sensor, as opposed to Canon 1DX. Not at low ISO, not at high ISO.
> Since Canon 1DX Mark II is supposed to be better than the first generation I would think it's also better than 5D Mark IV.
> 
> With my 5D Mark IV when shooting landscapes it's possible that the contrast is way to huge for the camera to handle, especially for photos taken around noon. I know you're not "supposed" to do that but as a tourist visiting a remote location you don't always have the luxury to return for the golden hour.
> ...


Nelu I have had every "1" Canon body since the original 1Ds back in 2001 or 2002... The difference from 1DX to 1DXII is big... But the DR is still not quite enough. Cheers.


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## docsmith (Aug 7, 2018)

Clicstudio….Thanks for the impressions. I think it is great that you found the ergonomics a more significant difference than the IQ between the two cameras to keep using the 1DXII. Of course, this is a point many have made here on CR. Ultimately, it is great that you have a tool that works for you and, like many of us, it is always interesting to look for improvements.

As for the IQ difference, I wonder if the MP difference between the two bodies could have been a contributing factor to your perceptions. Of course, that is dramatically different between the two bodies whereas the Sony's advantage over Canon is less striking depending on where you look (DXO vs photonstophotos, etc.).

If it is the high MP, I'd be curious as to what you thought about the 5Ds(R), or hopefully a future variant with on chip A/D conversion.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

takesome1 said:


> Well you did say "_Sony blows *anything* from Canon away." _
> Maybe Sebasan would not have taken offense if you had just said it blew Canon's flagship 1D XII away.
> 
> I got lost in your OP review and cheated to the important part. I wanted to know the final decision.
> ...


THe 1DX II is the flagship. So anything under it is less good, if u want. So if the Sony beats the 1DX therefore it beats anything else, right?


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

docsmith said:


> Clicstudio….Thanks for the impressions. I think it is great that you found the ergonomics a more significant difference than the IQ between the two cameras to keep using the 1DXII. Of course, this is a point many have made here on CR. Ultimately, it is great that you have a tool that works for you and, like many of us, it is always interesting to look for improvements.
> 
> As for the IQ difference, I wonder if the MP difference between the two bodies could have been a contributing factor to your perceptions. Of course, that is dramatically different between the two bodies whereas the Sony's advantage over Canon is less striking depending on where you look (DXO vs photonstophotos, etc.).
> 
> If it is the high MP, I'd be curious as to what you thought about the 5Ds(R), or hopefully a future variant with on chip A/D conversion.


Thank you. I don't rely on websites with reviews or numbers. As I said before, it's about the real world and what works for each individual. I also said that if I could have the Sony sensor inside the Canon body, that would be the beast of beasts... Unfortunately all cameras lack something. In my case, ergonomics are as important as the final quality. Things have changed too. Nobody prints anything anymore. Most of the stuff ends up on a website or instagram or viewed on a phone. Who cares if it was shot on a Sony, Canon or a Pocket Casio camera from 1999 as long as it looks good on a smartphone. Nobody looks a photos at 100%. In the end, the picture quality is relevant... Sometimes


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## AlanF (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> THe 1DX II is the flagship. So anything under it is less good, if u want. So if the Sony beats the 1DX therefore it beats anything else, right?



I am not taking sides or wishing to get involved in a fight between others. But, this logic is questionable and the answer is No. The 1DXII is the Canon king for AF and high frame rate as well as built like a tank. So, it beats the other there. It is significantly beaten by the 5DIV for resolution and slightly for DR. And the 5DSR is number 1 for resolution in FF world.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

takesome1 said:


> I strongly disagree with this, it is not a friend.


Who is D


Jester74 said:


> Agreed.... And it's Abbott, not Abbot... Sorry, Dustin, apologies...


Still who is Dustin Abbot or Abbott and why should I care??? I am me, I am the photographer and reviewer I listen to. Me. I am very very successful at my job cause I spent more time playing and practicing on my own than reading someone else's rules. I make my own rules and I keep learning every day as I go and new technology develops. I know Pro photographers that still don't know how to use photoshop or Lightroom and complain that they have bad quality photos. U have to keep up with the fast times and Canon has a 3 year disadvantage over Nikon and Sony. I don't know who Dustin is and I am not even going to look it up...


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## docsmith (Aug 7, 2018)

AlanF said:


> I am not taking sides or wishing to get involved in a fight between others. But, this logic is questionable and the answer is No. The 1DXII is the Canon king for AF and high frame rate as well as built like a tank. So, it beats the other there. It is significantly beaten by the 5DIV for resolution and slightly for DR. And the 5DSR is number 1 for resolution in FF world.



Not a believer in the "1D" magic theory?  

It wouldn't surprise me if Canon's algorithms are a bit better in the higher end cameras. Perhaps Canon has standardized their algorithms more recently as I have not heard someone make this claim in awhile, but 4-5 years ago, several people boasted there was some secret sauce in the 1D line.

But, part of the point here is finding a body that works for you. The 5DIV is really working for me right now. And, part of the point, I have noticed a much more pronounced difference in IQ than I expected in the 5DIV compared to the 5DIII. The color science is a bit different (I preferred the 5DIII's colors), but I can just do more with the 5DIV files and end up with a final image closer to what I wanted. 

Improvements are great. I'll take every single one I can get, yet, at the end of the day I can only use one camera at a time.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

AlanF said:


> I am not taking sides or wishing to get involved in a fight between others. But, this logic is questionable and the answer is No. The 1DXII is the Canon king for AF and high frame rate as well as built like a tank. So, it beats the other there. It is significantly beaten by the 5DIV for resolution and slightly for DR. And the 5DSR is number 1 for resolution in FF world.


Size does matter. Of course more MP will give you more detail when you resize down to 1D size but overall the 1D is the better camera... The body alone is worth the price. IMHO


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

Sony Magic... Look ma, there are white clouds and a blue sky out there! Try to do this on any Canon... It makes me want to cry HAHAHAHA  Excuse the mess


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## AlanF (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> Size does matter. Of course more MP will give you more detail when you resize down to 1D size but overall the 1D is the better camera... The body alone is worth the price. IMHO


Size does indeed matter - the 1DX is too big and heavy for me. And you don’t downsize from the 5DSR to see more detail. You lose detail when you downsize. You have the 1DX as it better for you. I take a 5D because it’s better for me.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Size does indeed matter - the 1DX is too big and heavy for me. And you don’t downsize from the 5DSR to see more detail. You lose detail when you downsize. You have the 1DX as it better for you. I take a 5D because it’s better for me.


Fair enough. We are all different sizes and shapes too. Funny that nobody has come up with a Left-handed camera... I am not left handed but I would feel cheated if I were. Also, I use my left eye to see thru the VF, most people use the right... Standarizing products to be appealing to everyone must be a hard job.


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## Jester74 (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> Sony Magic... Look ma, there are white clouds and a blue sky out there! Try to do this on any Canon... It makes me want to cry HAHAHAHA  Excuse the mess
> View attachment 179519



Jpgs straight out of the camera(s)?


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

Jester74 said:


> Jpgs straight out of the camera(s)?





Jester74 said:


> Jpgs straight out of the camera(s)?


Jpgs? Who shoots jpgs? RAW baby!


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## Jester74 (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> Jpgs? Who shoots jpgs? RAW baby!


Great. And what happened to them before you posted them?


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## AlanF (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> Fair enough. We are all different sizes and shapes too. Funny that nobody has come up with a Left-handed camera... I am not left handed but I would feel cheated if I were. Also, I use my left eye to see thru the VF, most people use the right... Standarizing products to be appealing to everyone must be a hard job.


I also use my left eye. Is there some theory about having a master eye?


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

Jester74 said:


> Great. And what happened to them before you posted them?


what to do you mean what happened to them? The top is the RAW file out of the camera. The bottom is the same file edited in Lightroom. There are no JPG's at all.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

AlanF said:


> I also use my left eye. Is there some theory about having a master eye?


I don't know about a theory. I had lasik done a few years ago and it seems my left eye is my master eye. I always used my left eye but I am not left-handed. I guess I am left-eyed.


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## clicstudio (Aug 7, 2018)

@Jester74 Szia! I was in Budapest a couple of years ago. Gorgeous city and the hottest women on the planet!


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## Jester74 (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> what to do you mean what happened to them? The top is the RAW file out of the camera. The bottom is the same file edited in Lightroom. There are no JPG's at all.


I thought that you compared the Canon and the Sony. It's just raw conversion, without the other picture from the Canon I can't say wow, sry...


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## Jester74 (Aug 7, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> @Jester74 Szia! I was in Budapest a couple of years ago. Gorgeous city and the hottest women on the planet!
> View attachment 179520


Szia! Köszönöm!
I'll inform every one of them..... I saw Miami from the air two years ago, but sadly we had to go to Cuba...


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 8, 2018)

The problem that arises is that statements like "blows away" are very subjective, perhaps exaggeration, and almost meaningless without the photos that demonstrate the difference. To really have impact every claim needs to be accompanied by illustration/proof. If no proof is forthcoming, then take it with a grain of salt.

I feel the assessment was fair regarding ergonomics but lacking regarding photo quality. Of course as an opinion, no problem, it's interesting.

I believe my 1DX2 blows every camera ever made out of the water (when loaded with gun powder)! And I've been shooting Canon since 1973! However, I'm not a explosives expert, so what do I know. 

Jack


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## clicstudio (Aug 8, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> The problem that arises is that statements like "blows away" are very subjective, perhaps exaggeration, and almost meaningless without the photos that demonstrate the difference. To really have impact every claim needs to be accompanied by illustration/proof. If no proof is forthcoming, then take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> I feel the assessment was fair regarding ergonomics but lacking regarding photo quality. Of course as an opinion, no problem, it's interesting.
> 
> ...


This was just supposed to be an honest review and everybody seems to get defensive. It is very usual in these forums. I don't know why I even wasted time posting it.
I didn't even need to process the raw file to see that it was already so much better out of the camera. When u work with one machine everyday, you know what it is capable of. As soon as I saw those clouds and sky appear in Lightroom, I was like WHOOA! I love Canon but they need to step it up in terms of quality. They got the best lens lineup and the best bodies, ergonomics and ease of use but taking 4-5 years between upgrades on their flagship cameras is too long. Maybe it was OK in 1973 but now, things move as fast as Fuse for a Cannon. Maybe this is what Canon needs... Cheers!


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 8, 2018)

Another problem is that it's not fair to call it a review. An opinion, OK. Valid opinion - to some extent but as far as I can assess it's greatly exaggerated otherwise every Canon shooter would be out of work. Collectively these opinions help us come to conclusions when we're purchasing gear so I appreciate the post.

Jack


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## Aglet (Aug 8, 2018)

Many of us here are aware of the DR differences at base ISO for Canon vs SoNikon. It's been quite a popular argument topic.

In clicstudio's case the ergonomics and user interface still take precedence, especially considering electronic publishing as the final output.
For some of us, maximum IQ matters more than overall handling especially if we're going to output large format final product with a lot of post work along the way.

The 5d4, 1dx2 and most FF SoNikons all perform very similarly in IQ after 200-400 ISO (according to test metrics)
It's only at base (100) iso where you'll find a significant improvement with SoNikon.

The 1dx2 is optimized for speed so will have a little more read-noise than similar but slower FF Canons.

I am curious what ISO ranges you shot the a7r3 at.
Do you mostly shoot at base ISO or did you find higher ISO settings were also providing you with some IQ improvements over the 1dx2?


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## Kit. (Aug 8, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> I am not going to waste my time anymore and show you the side by side samples


Ok...



clicstudio said:


> Sony Magic... Look ma, there are white clouds and a blue sky out there! Try to do this on any Canon... It makes me want to cry HAHAHAHA  Excuse the mess


And what is it supposed to show?

An old 5D mk II with its bad, noisy sensor, no Photoshop layers, no LR - only ACR:


Sorry for the mess, yeah.

I would personally never shoot something like that for myself, but whatever floats your boat.


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## Quirkz (Aug 8, 2018)

Nelu said:


> With my 5D Mark IV when shooting landscapes it's possible that the contrast is way to huge for the camera to handle, especially for photos taken around noon. I know you're not "supposed" to do that but as a tourist visiting a remote location you don't always have the luxury to return for the golden hour.
> As I said, the 5D Mark IV is better than 5D Mark III when lifting shadows and (or) recovering highlights but it could be better. Other than that, I just love that camera!
> 
> Nelu



I’m in the same boat. Casual travel photography. But at high noon, I don’t think there is any camera current that can capture the huge dynamic range of harsh shadow and light contrast of the midday sun. 5d4 does better than any previous canon, and while the Sony sensors do a little better, it’s not by much - not enough to really change what and where you can shoot. 

I’m happy to be proved wrong with examples of course.


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## Quirkz (Aug 8, 2018)

Did you find that the AF focus of the Sony got you shots that the 1dx didn’t? Or did the frustrations of the handling not give you the opportunity to really measure this? Because if your final conclusion is that the AF performance on the Sony really was superior, as was the sensor and image quality, then that’s huge. You’re saying that the core tech is amazing, they just need to fix their ergonomics and handling. Which is easy - if you care as a company. 

To be honest, I have the 5d4, and I think it’s fantastic, and can’t imagine how another camera can really change the imagarey I get by that much. But I don’t do portraiture, so I appreciate that you have needs/perspective/standards that I don’t see.


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## jolyonralph (Aug 8, 2018)

It took me MUCH longer than a week to get used to the A7RII layout compared to the 5D III it replaced and as a companion to my primary body, the 5DSR. I would have to say it probably took at least a month of actual use, maybe more, before I was comfortable with it. Same with the EOS M5. I originally hated the layout but now I'm perfectly comfortable with it, and I enjoy using the Sony and don't have any problems any more.

Now, you may hate the A7III layout, and that's fine and you certainly need to make your mind up fast enough to be able to get a refund on your purchase, I can understand that. But I think that it takes quite a bit longer than a week to get used to a change like this, and I can also understand if you're trying to run a business you don't have time to get used to something so drastically different.

But I don't think the majority of Sony shooters have any major issue with the layout.


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## docsmith (Aug 8, 2018)

Always happy when someone gets to the point they are happy with gear, but even the infotainer/internet reviewers that LOVE the Sony to pieces have issues with the handling. If you want, check out TN & CN at ~5:05 in this comparison of the A7RIII vs D850 (I admit, I was curious how the they would compare these two cameras):






This was after 8 months of use.


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## Kit. (Aug 8, 2018)

docsmith said:


>


(filmed with 6d II and 24/1.4, by the way)


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## takesome1 (Aug 8, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> THe 1DX II is the flagship. *So anything under it is less good*, if u want. So if the Sony beats the 1DX therefore it beats anything else, right?



Not exactly, when the 1D line combined after the 1D IV the resolution line went to the 5D III and the speed and durability went to the 1Dx. Before you had the 1D III and the 1Ds III. So in some aspects the 5D line is "less good" however its intended purpose is different and in some aspects it is "better".

I thought that Canon was pushing the 5D line as a studio camera for your type of work.


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## clicstudio (Aug 8, 2018)

U know what? All this talk made me realize I have the 2 best cameras for my purposes. So why not keep Both? Thanx to all of you for helping me see there is no "one" camera to do it all. I will keep both systems and use them accordingly. I think it's the best decision. I will still do some more comparisons just because I can't help it. But I.will try to.make the Sony work. Cheers and Thanx again


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## Quirkz (Aug 8, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> U know what? All this talk made me realize I have the 2 best cameras for my purposes. So why not keep Both? Thanx to all of you for helping me see there is no "one" camera to do it all. I will keep both systems and use them accordingly. I think it's the best decision. I will still do some more comparisons just because I can't help it. But I.will try to.make the Sony work. Cheers and Thanx again



Sounds like a great outcome. Give us an update in a month or two and let us know how your thoughts have progressed after you’ve used the Sony more.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 8, 2018)

The last number of posts since mine were bang on and the final outcome makes a lot of sense. Now further feedback can be helpful if it's provided in the weeks ahead. 

It can happen that some of us have ways of thinking/doing that align more with certain folk than others. So it is with the ergonomics. I love Canon's format and hated Nikon, although my experience was only a year with a D5100. I'm positive that I would hate the small Sony body with a large lens such as I am almost always using. I could do with a little less weight than the 1DX2 and for my smallish hands it's a tiny bit large but the features it has and the ergonomics are ... _lovable! _And I am now using it for video and pleased. If Canon had only given me a few extra pixels in this great body but why fret, my photos usually at higher ISOs are "pretty nice".

Exaggerating a bit here, but what makes me frustrated/angry is stuff like not having great AF options right at my fingertips the moment I need them more so than looking at a finalized photo and saying, you know this could be 2% better in its tonal range. 

Jack


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## Mikehit (Aug 8, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> ...but what makes me frustrated/angry is stuff like not having great AF options right at my fingertips



What sort of things are you thinking of, Jack? You may have mentioned them in other posts in the past but I don't recall.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 8, 2018)

Mike, the 1DX2 is super relative to its button programmability. For example I have the upper front button as "enlarge review of the shot" and the one below it as one shot <-> servo. The 2 back buttons give me AF choices that differ from my shutter AF, instantly, for BIF etc. And those who don't have such a fast shutter I don't think realize how catching a movement of even a stationary creature in a burst, can provide that subtle difference in eye contact or pose. I love all that and probably could never be satisfied losing those things and only wish Canon had gone slightly higher in MPs to aid me a little with reach. However, my reach issue diminished when I went to the 400 DO that I love and no one else makes!! I refuse to be dissatisfied.

Jack


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## Aglet (Aug 9, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Mike, the 1DX2 is super relative to its button programmability. For example I have the upper front button as "enlarge review of the shot" and the one below it as one shot <-> servo. The 2 back buttons give me AF choices that differ from my shutter AF, instantly, for BIF etc. And those who don't have such a fast shutter I don't think realize how catching a movement of even a stationary creature in a burst, can provide that subtle difference in eye contact or pose. I love all that and probably could never be satisfied losing those things and only wish Canon had gone slightly higher in MPs to aid me a little with reach. However, my reach issue diminished when I went to the 400 DO that I love and no one else makes!! I refuse to be dissatisfied.
> 
> Jack


HEHE! For what you're shooting, yes the d5100 would have been disappointing.
It's still a great little camera for a lot of "slow" work tho and the raw files are pretty good even tho it's now 6-7 years old;
In fact, I just picked up a mint used one for $100 this week! Gonna carve it up for an IR conversion.

If you like taking fast bursts to get a really nice selection to choose from then some upcoming FF ML monster may serve you well.
Your low light shooting sort of precludes using something like the MFT flagships that'll get you 60 FPS on those still shots if you want since CAF isn't required.
When you do need some CAF, they're about as fast as your 1dx2 in frame-rate.

Another generation or 2 of ML development and you'll have a fast, SILENT camera for your favorite woodland subjects and probably with comparable AF tracking to the best mirror-slappers.


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## Aglet (Aug 9, 2018)

clicstudio said:


> U know what? All this talk made me realize I have the 2 best cameras for my purposes. So why not keep Both? Thanx to all of you for helping me see there is no "one" camera to do it all. I will keep both systems and use them accordingly. I think it's the best decision. I will still do some more comparisons just because I can't help it. But I.will try to.make the Sony work. Cheers and Thanx again



THAT is the best solution. IF you know what to expect you can pick the better tool for the job.
(sez the guy who shoots with 4 systems including 2 ML brands)


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## Phil Indeblanc (Aug 9, 2018)

I STILL have the A7RII, but the files ARE cleaner, and not just DR, its the lack of AA. Sharper, more 3D MF like, and they do have more play maybe due to mpixels. As the OP I still take the Canon on field, or anything that might move, like models and such. If its static or posed with little movement, I take the Sony in case I can use it. Often I do. 

But as OP says the ergo sucks on the SOny, and it is nOT a matter of getting used to. I have had it for over a couple years, and do my best to take it on my personal and assigned work so I am fluid with it. Its just choppy waters all the way. BUT, that LCD vs EVF..there is a setting to swap between, and I find it works well for me.

I too wonder about the 5DSR, but have heard lots on the mirror slap, and its a must to use with it Up. So that and the lower light sensor, it limits the work out of studio, and if it is in studio, I use the lens to adapt to multiple lenses with the Sony. And I like that I tried a different brand. Too bad the improvements were helpful, but not address all issues on the 7R3 version.


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## clicstudio (Aug 9, 2018)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> I STILL have the A7RII, but the files ARE cleaner, and not just DR, its the lack of AA. Sharper, more 3D MF like, and they do have more play maybe due to mpixels. As the OP I still take the Canon on field, or anything that might move, like models and such. If its static or posed with little movement, I take the Sony in case I can use it. Often I do.
> 
> But as OP says the ergo sucks on the SOny, and it is nOT a matter of getting used to. I have had it for over a couple years, and do my best to take it on my personal and assigned work so I am fluid with it. Its just choppy waters all the way. BUT, that LCD vs EVF..there is a setting to swap between, and I find it works well for me.
> 
> I too wonder about the 5DSR, but have heard lots on the mirror slap, and its a must to use with it Up. So that and the lower light sensor, it limits the work out of studio, and if it is in studio, I use the lens to adapt to multiple lenses with the Sony. And I like that I tried a different brand. Too bad the improvements were helpful, but not address all issues on the 7R3 version.


Phil, now that u mention the mirror slap. I always have trouble getting perfect long exposure night shots with my 1DX2. Even with 2 or 10 second timer shoots and the mirror up and a steady tripod. I have unbelievable night shots the other night with the Sony. I am starting to believe that mirrorless is the future. The mirror slap is and will always be a problem specially with super high MP where every detail counts.
Cheers

P


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