# My next upgrade...



## lady (Jan 20, 2013)

Hello all! It's been awhile. I've had my 7D for a year and a half now and I have gotten so much use out of it, still love using it. 

On my list of things I "need" to get, there's the following:
5D Mark 3
16-35mm f/2.8
24-70mm f/2.8
small compact for every day stuff, either a Panasonic LX-7 or the Sony RX100
A tripod that isn't cheap/broken like mine currently is

My compact panasonic died, and I had the luxury of borrowing a friend's RX100 that day. Holy moly, the pictures on the thing were incredible for a compact. It's almost irresistable to have my new "pocket" camera be something that good. However I had been looking to eventually replace my Panasonic with the LX7, another nice model. Tough choice. After the death of my compact I realized how much I had been using/relying on it for every day photos around where I work and such. I lug around my 7D and it's a beast and gets much better DoF than the compact cameras, but it isn't as versatile (juggling 3 lenses). 

However my camera fund is now up again and I can afford a 5D Mark 3 now, though my top priority is getting rid of this 17-40 (the F4 is just extremely limiting since it's my indoor lens) and replacing it with the 16-35mm. I can actually get both, and I just got paid for some commercial shots I took of a farm which would add even more to the fund. 

I could get both lenses, and the compact, and thus have an upgraded set-up in both areas to what I have now. Or I can add a second body in with the 5D3 and just get the 16-35 leaving some saving room to get the next lens and compact by summer. Getting the second body would mean having a really nice camera for portraits and something that does better with wide landscapes (something I struggle with currently). But then I'd ideally have both the 16-35 and the 24-70 in order for the dual camera set-up to work well. Come summer I'll have enough for all the things on my list (horse show season all spring = $$$ for me), but I'm prioritizing in the mean time. 

The tripod I'm getting either way since mine broke. Recommendations for one again would be spectacular, looking to spend < $300. 

Soo... suggestions?


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## bseitz234 (Jan 20, 2013)

What input exactly are you looking for? Sounds like you should get a 5d3 and a lens and a tripod. Whether you get the 24-70 or 16-35 first is up to what you'll use more... Or get the 16-35 for landscape, and a 17-55 2.8 to use on your 7d until you get the 24-70. 

As far as inexpensive tripods go, I've been very happy with my oben 1320 w/ ba-1 ballhead, $170 with free shipping from b&h. Simple, reasonable weight, gets the job done.


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## lady (Jan 20, 2013)

$300 for the tripod without a head since I have a head.

The troublesome thing is that while I really want the 5D Mark III, it might be better to get the lenses and compact first and then add it to my collection this summer. I want to see what I can achieve with my 7D when I actually have a wider aperture to work with on the wide angle end. The 5D3 will no doubt be a huge improvement as a landscaping and portrait lens but I'd like to prime my skills on the 7D in the mean time. I'm also _really_ disliking not having my backup compact around. It's affecting me quite a bit on a day to day basis. 

But I've been having a lot of issues where it's better to do manual focus and I've kind of been wanting a camera that was a little less dumb when it comes to focusing on landscapes, portraits, etc. Which is where the 5D3 comes in. Decisions, decisions...


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## lady (Jan 20, 2013)

RickSpringfield said:


> Well, this is probably not what you want to hear ... but I wouldn't buy a tripod without going hands on. I bought a tripod about 8 months ago and it was a Manfrotto and I thought it was the cats pajamas. Until, a friend of mine was over and I used his tripod and I was blown away by how easy it was to use ... (but mostly what a dullard I was for not even knowing about it).
> 
> So, I sold my old one as punishment, and then vowed I wouldnt actually buy another one until I could try out a few and decide what I liked or didnt like. And low and behold, I am completely happy now. But the quest wasn't overnight. Actually the closest place I have to check out a wide variety of tripods is like 150 miles from my front door. They carried Gitzo, Manfrotto, Fiesel, and a handful of other brands too. The best part was ... they were all sitting out on the floor and I could try to collapse them and carry them and extend them and all that stuff. And when all was said and done, they price matched B&H ... so I was thrilled.
> 
> ...




Good info!

I'm lucky enough to have several stores carrying higher end tripods nearby, though the model selection is limited. I guess I'll go and play "legos" with them and set a whole bunch up to see which ones are the least annoying! I would expand my tripod "budget" for carbon fiber because I like things being light.

I miss having a tripod. I did some casual commercial photography for a barn I'm associated with and I had to do it _without a tripod_ in 28 degree weather. I had to take a shot, readjust the settings, take another one and hope they aligned well and the DoF was flattering. I often ended up with very shallow pictures. To me, they were awful, though the business raved about them. I do much better with a tripod than without. You can actually see some of those pictures in the 17-40mm lens thread I just posted in.


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## expatinasia (Jan 20, 2013)

Velbon makes some nice affordable tripods and monopods. And I agree fully with RickSpringfield that you should try them in a shop, see what you like etc.

The Sony RX100 has some great reviews as has the RX1. Some people here also talk none stop about the new Fujis such as the X100s and X-Pro2. I really like the look of the RX1.

As for a new camera, unless you have loads of cash, why not keep hold of the 7D and enjoy that for a couple more years. I try to make any tech I buy last 5 years or so. You still get great pics from your 7D and there will always be something better so why not hold off on that purchase.


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## lady (Jan 20, 2013)

expatinasia said:


> Velbon makes some nice affordable tripods and monopods. And I agree fully with RickSpringfield that you should try them in a shop, see what you like etc.
> 
> The Sony RX100 has some great reviews as has the RX1. Some people here also talk none stop about the new Fujis such as the X100s and X-Pro2. I really like the look of the RX1.
> 
> As for a new camera, unless you have loads of cash, why not keep hold of the 7D and enjoy that for a couple more years. I try to make any tech I buy last 5 years or so. You still get great pics from your 7D and there will always be something better so why not hold off on that purchase.



Sell my 7D? Never. It's fantastic for shooting horse shows because of the crop factor and the FPS. But with portraits and landscapes it can start to fall behind. Maybe someday, when I can afford to upgrade to 1D, but not any time soon. I managed to save up $5,200 so that's what we're working with here.


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## shutterwideshut (Jan 20, 2013)

lady said:


> Good info!
> 
> I'm lucky enough to have several stores carrying higher end tripods nearby, though the model selection is limited. I guess I'll go and play "legos" with them and set a whole bunch up to see which ones are the least annoying! I would expand my tripod "budget" for carbon fiber because I like things being light.
> 
> I miss having a tripod. I did some casual commercial photography for a barn I'm associated with and I had to do it _without a tripod_ in 28 degree weather. I had to take a shot, readjust the settings, take another one and hope they aligned well and the DoF was flattering. I often ended up with very shallow pictures. To me, they were awful, though the business raved about them. I do much better with a tripod than without. You can actually see some of those pictures in the 17-40mm lens thread I just posted in.




If you have the budget why not look into the Gitzo or Really Right Stuff carbon fiber tripods? I also shoot with a 7D and the 17-40mm lens for 3 years and though it may not be as spectacular as other lenses in its class, it isn't a slouch either. The 17-40mm is also a good performer for shooting landscapes from f/8 to f/16 when fitted into a FF body, like 5D3.


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## brad-man (Jan 20, 2013)

It's more than you intended to spend, but you're purchasing first class equipment, why not continue the trend? This tripod has the greatest weight/rigidity ratio of any I know. The best tripod is the one you have with you 


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759477-REG/Gitzo_GT1542T_Series_1_Traveler_6x.html


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## lady (Jan 20, 2013)

Hm... Yes... Gitzo. I will try that model out tomorrow. I haven't seen Really Right Stuff carried locally unfortunately. 

The real question here is which things I should get now and which can wait until summer. Possible combinations...

*Combo 1*
16-35mm f/2.8 ($1100)
24-70 f/2.8 ($1350)
Sony RX100 ($650)
Tripod (~$300)
Total: $3,400 (leaves ~$1,700 to go towards saving up for the 5D3, or wiggle room for a nicer tripod)

*Combo 2*
16-35mm f/2.8 ($1100)
Canon 5D Mark 3 ($3,000 on sale right now)
Tripod (~$300)
Total: $4,400 (leaves ~$500)

*Combo 3*
16-35mm f/2.8 ($1100)
Sony RX100 ($650)
Tripod (~$300)
Total: $2050 (it'd only take a month to save up for the 5D3 if I decide I need it right away, or if I decide I can wait I can get the 24-70)

Some of the items will have sales tax and some won't, hence the rough estimations that seem inaccurate.

Camera lenses sell for less on craigslist around where I live than they do online, that's how I got my 17-40mm and it was $150 less than ebay and in superb condition. I just make sure to try the lens first. Right now there's an ad for a 16-35 on craigslist for $900 so I may check that out. 

The other thing, too, is that I may opt for upgrading my 70-200 into an f/2.8 and adding more prime lenses in. Horse photography is tough business.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 20, 2013)

lady said:


> A tripod that isn't cheap/broken like mine currently is



I'd esp. advise a good tripod *head* that allows for smooth movement even if the camera is held stable - in my case that was more expensive than the actual tripod. And you probably should get some advice on what system to use if you didn't decided it yet (I'm using Arca Swiss, but it's rather uncommon in Germany). As for the tripod legs, do you need max. stability for extra long exposures or just a sturdy version that you still can carry yourself w/o a golf cart?



lady said:


> The real question here is which things I should get now and which can wait until summer. Possible combinations...



I cannot give you any advice here, but one reason for the Canon gear is that the 5d3 has a similar usability to your 7d (which you still might want to use for the 1.6x crop?) and not having to re-think once switching cameras should be a plus for a pro photog.

Also a new 14-24L is rumored to be announced any day :-o so if you've got the $2500+ it'll probably cost that might be a good upgrade over the 16-35L.



lady said:


> A tripod that isn't
> that's how I got my 17-40mm and it was $150 less than ebay and in superb condition



You Americans should really appreciate having a working craiglist btw, in Germany there are many smaller different sites but nowhere photog gear is to be found, that's why I just bought a *new* 17-40L (with Canon rebate) because the ebay prices were 85+% of the new lens...



lady said:


> Horse photography is tough business.



But seems to pay, so watch out for envious photogs crossing the street


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## expatinasia (Jan 20, 2013)

lady said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > Velbon makes some nice affordable tripods and monopods. And I agree fully with RickSpringfield that you should try them in a shop, see what you like etc.
> ...



I really am not sure where in my reply to you, you think I suggested you sell your 7D. 

Regardless, you really should wait before buying a 5D Mark III to see if Canon are going to release a 7D Mark II and when. Could be a very interesting camera if they do.


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## Rienzphotoz (Jan 20, 2013)

I use Manfrotto 055CXPRO4 Tripod with 468MGRC2 Ballhead
The 055CXPRO4 sells for US$ 364 right now ... but there have been deals on it for just under $300 ... it supports 17.6 lbs (8kg).
Its a really good sturdy tripod and its a carbon fiber tripod so it is lighter than the equivalent aluminum ones.


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## shutterwideshut (Jan 20, 2013)

brad-man said:


> It's more than you intended to spend, but you're purchasing first class equipment, why not continue the trend? This tripod has the greatest weight/rigidity ratio of any I know. The best tripod is the one you have with you
> 
> 
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759477-REG/Gitzo_GT1542T_Series_1_Traveler_6x.html



+1. I also use this tripod with a Really Right Stuff BH-30 Ballhead combo. I doubt you can buy a carbon fiber tripod worth $300.00 because it costs more than that. Among the compact, sturdy and travel tripods, the GT1542T is one of the best in its class. If you really want to get a 16-35mm f/2.8, I suggest you opt for Combo 2 and forego with the 24-70mm f/2.8 in the meantime.


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## Haydn1971 (Jan 20, 2013)

Throwing a wild card into the mix, if you are keeping your 7D and don't need the super top flight AF options of the 5DIII, why not look at the 6D, which is great in bad light, offers as good a picture quality as the 5DIII (I'll not get into the tables and charts over which is best), leaving a considerable amount to buy the 16-35, 24-70, tripod and compacts, but also grab the 135mm f2.0 L which will give you some low light reach into an indoor event arena, adding a 1.4x extender for a tad more reach, or alternatively enable you to put some cash aside for the 70-200 2.8 IS MkII six month down the line.


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## Rienzphotoz (Jan 20, 2013)

shutterwideshut said:


> I doubt you can buy a carbon fiber tripod worth $300.00 because it costs more than that.


I bought Manfrotto 055CXPRO4 4-Section Carbon Fiber Tripod Legs for US$ 299
Currently it is selling for US$ 364 on most online stores ... but there have been deals till a week ago for as low as US$ 285 ... if you search around, I am sure you can still get it for under US$ 300.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2013)

lady said:


> Hm... Yes... Gitzo. I will try that model out tomorrow. I haven't seen Really Right Stuff carried locally unfortunately.



You won't find RRS locally, unless you live in San Luis Obispo, CA - they don't use distributors. But IMO, the RRS legs are a step up from Gitzo in terms of quality. The Gitzo 1542T was mentioned, I think Gitzo dropped the ball on that one - they made the center column too long, so the legs don't fold over the ballhead (unlike the 1541T, and I guess they realized their error and released the 1544T, which is a clone of the 1541T). 

FWIW, I just picked up RRS' "travel" tripod set, the TQC-14 and BH-30 LR. The set is 3 lbs, the leg diameters are equivalent to the Gitzo 2-series legs, and while the weight rating of the TQC-14 is a conservative 25 lbs, I can swing my own weight from it...I wouldn't try that with a 1542T!


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## brad-man (Jan 20, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> lady said:
> 
> 
> > Hm... Yes... Gitzo. I will try that model out tomorrow. I haven't seen Really Right Stuff carried locally unfortunately.
> ...




Have to disagree about the Traveler. The 1542T is 3.5" taller extended than the 1541T. I like that 3.5" on the extended end more than I don't like it on the collapsed end. I have an Acratech GPS on top and the setup folds to 23". The TQC-14 is half a pound heavier, and, more importantly, costs $370 more...


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2013)

brad-man said:



> Have to disagree about the Traveler. The 1542T is 3.5" taller extended than the 1541T. I like that 3.5" on the extended end more than I don't like it on the collapsed end. I have an Acratech GPS on top and the setup folds to 23". The TQC-14 is half a pound heavier, and, more importantly, costs $370 more...



It really comes down to personal need, I think. 23" collapsed is too long for me - my travel tripod+head needs to fit inside a carryon hard case like my Storm im2500, and the RRS set does that (even when in its custom-fit bag). I usually ignore the center column when looking at extended height - even the best center column adds too much vibration for me (try some testing with the center column down vs. up), so I consider center columns as 'raise in case of emergency only' and for that, the extra couple inches of the TQC-14 (center column down) helps.


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## lady (Jan 20, 2013)

So I managed to get the 16-35mm and I got it for $835. That saved quite a bit of money!

This leaves ~$4,350 for the other things I was looking at. 



expatinasia said:


> lady said:
> 
> 
> > expatinasia said:
> ...



You said "keep hold of your 7D" so I thought you thought I was going to sell mine!

I'm not really interested in a 7D Mark II to be honest. I want a full frame. 



Marsu42 said:


> I'd esp. advise a good tripod *head* that allows for smooth movement even if the camera is held stable - in my case that was more expensive than the actual tripod. And you probably should get some advice on what system to use if you didn't decided it yet (I'm using Arca Swiss, but it's rather uncommon in Germany). As for the tripod legs, do you need max. stability for extra long exposures or just a sturdy version that you still can carry yourself w/o a golf cart?



I need something light but I also want stability. 

http://www.amazon.com/SIRUI-Ballhead-Quick-Release-Capacity/dp/B00317UGY4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1358706194&sr=1-1&keywords=SIRUI+G-20+36mm+Ballhead

This is my current ballhead. It's been pretty secure. My tripod though--an off brand that I got for cheap at good will but _looked_ sturdy ended up having the joints in the legs snap from repeated folding up and traveling. I guess I should be glad I only lost $10 on that purchase? I don't know what it cost new.

The tricky thing is, I don't want to spend a thousand dollars on a tripod + head combo. Maybe someday I'll get arca swiss and really right stuff heads but right now I'm still building up a camera set-up and my biggest lens is 70-200mm. I'm not very efficient with a tripod yet so I want to practice and really figure out what I'm doing with it to know what I want out of it. There's some creative stuff you can do with tripods and horses as well as tripods and landscapes.



> You Americans should really appreciate having a working craiglist btw, in Germany there are many smaller different sites but nowhere photog gear is to be found, that's why I just bought a *new* 17-40L (with Canon rebate) because the ebay prices were 85+% of the new lens...



Ebay can be ridiculous sometimes and that's why I try to sell my gear on craigslist. Ebay charges like 15% sales commission and when I'm selling something that's worth a thousand bucks that really hurts me. I can charge less than I charge on ebay and make more money on craigslist. I totally appreciate it. 



> But seems to pay, so watch out for envious photogs crossing the street


Haha, it does and it doesn't. Part of the money I saved up came from an INSANELY lucky find I had at Goodwill. I found a designer purse for $4. Looked it up on ebay and the thing was going for over a grand. Needless to say I sold it. Horse photography is rarely a well paying venue unless you are one of the pros paid to do the big shows. Summer and Winter are off seasons while Spring and Fall are the on seasons. During the spring show season I can make quite a bit of money selling prints, but I'm not making a livable salary or anything. This is just a hobby and most of the money goes either to the hobby itself or to buying horsey things for myself at shows.  It involves waking up at 4AM and driving an hour to a show, being on my feet all day and then getting home around 9pm. 




Haydn1971 said:


> Throwing a wild card into the mix, if you are keeping your 7D and don't need the super top flight AF options of the 5DIII, why not look at the 6D, which is great in bad light, offers as good a picture quality as the 5DIII (I'll not get into the tables and charts over which is best), leaving a considerable amount to buy the 16-35, 24-70, tripod and compacts, but also grab the 135mm f2.0 L which will give you some low light reach into an indoor event arena, adding a 1.4x extender for a tad more reach, or alternatively enable you to put some cash aside for the 70-200 2.8 IS MkII six month down the line.



The 6D was super tempting but the focus system just doesn't do it for me. The 5D3's is much more responsive when it comes to moving objects. While I do portraits and lanscapes and hope to do it more when I have a camera that's better suited for them, many of my shots are candid and of the photojournalist type. I agree the picture quality is pretty much the same. The viewfinder, weathersealing + autofocus system makes it a dealbreaker for me though and I say that after using it myself and comparing it. 

I've been drooling over the 135mm for awhile now and your recommendation makes trying to avoid it even harder! It may be the perfect stopgap between now and me saving up to replace my 70-200 with the f/2.8 version. 

Now you're making me re-think which lenses to go with


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## ahab1372 (Jan 20, 2013)

Since you mentioned the Sirui ballhead: I just got the Sirui M-3004 tripod and so far I like it. I wanted the height and short folded length (legs fold over the head). I haven't used other tripods so I cannot compare, but it seems to be good value for the money. The carbon fiber version is the M-3204. If you don't need that much height, look into the N series.


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## brad-man (Jan 20, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > Have to disagree about the Traveler. The 1542T is 3.5" taller extended than the 1541T. I like that 3.5" on the extended end more than I don't like it on the collapsed end. I have an Acratech GPS on top and the setup folds to 23". The TQC-14 is half a pound heavier, and, more importantly, costs $370 more...
> ...




Oops. My bad. It's 23" collapsed the normal way. When the legs are folded up over the head, it shrinks to 20.5." Since my case is 25" long, I don't bother to flip the legs up.


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## Haydn1971 (Jan 20, 2013)

lady said:


> I've been drooling over the 135mm for awhile now and your recommendation makes trying to avoid it even harder! It may be the perfect stopgap between now and me saving up to replace my 70-200 with the f/2.8 version. Now you're making me re-think which lenses to go with



After reading the reviews on the 6D, I pushed the button and bought one, after seeing the results myself with my 50 & 135mm lens, I was tempted by a second hand 17-40mm, it was battered and felt tired, walked out of the shop with a brand new 16-35mm. After seeing the results from the 16-35 on the 6D, my feelings about crop, even with the mighty fine 10-22 & 15-85 that I still own, I've committed myself to a full frame pro kit. The 6D is transient and I see me replacing this in 4-5 years, the lenses are keepers, so rather than faffing with lens that I'm not wholely satisfied with, I will be getting exactly what I want. 

What's do I want next ? The 24-70mm f2.8 II now please ;-) what else ? I want the extra bits forms Lensbaby, I want the 8-15mm fisheye at some point in the future, but not sure if I want one of the 70-200's or the 100-400 or a 300mm prime... 

The moral is that the lenses will stay with you for a decade or more, the camera will be replaced a lot sooner


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2013)

brad-man said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > brad-man said:
> ...



Thanks, that makes more sense. Does your 25" case work for air travel as a carry on? I've got a bigger hard case than the im2500, but it's too big for an overhead - the im2500 and Peli 1510 are typically the largest permitted.


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## brad-man (Jan 21, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...




I don't know, I've never flown with it. I just stick the pod in whatever carry on bag (clothing) I'm bringing. The rest of my camera gear goes in a dedicated photo bag, from a Lowepro Pro Runner 450 when loaded up, to a Think Tank Urban Disguise 40 v2.0 when traveling light. I save the Pelicans for when I'm going to extreme places cause they be heavy.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 21, 2013)

brad-man said:


> I don't know, I've never flown with it. I just stick the pod in whatever carry on bag (clothing) I'm bringing. The rest of my camera gear goes in a dedicated photo bag, from a Lowepro Pro Runner 450 when loaded up, to a Think Tank Urban Disguise 40 v2.0 when traveling light. I save the Pelicans for when I'm going to extreme places cause they be heavy.



Gotcha. I usually pack the gear in a Lowepro Toploader + Lens Case(s), Flipside 300 or 400 AW (depending on how much), then put that in the Storm im2500 for the flight, in case I'm forced to gate-check it (full overheads on airlines where I don't have priority boarding, or regional jets where the bins are too small). That way, I have protection during the flight, and a way to carry my gear around at my destination.


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## DCM1024 (Jan 21, 2013)

Enjoy whatever upgrade path you choose, especially since you say you'll be able to add all of the gear by summer.

Last January 2012, my kit was a t2i with 18-55 and 55-250.

Got a tax refund and wanted a 5d2 kit but not quite enough $$$, so purchased a 7d and 17-55 f/2.8.

Fist year of wedding photography, did over 20 weddings, added oben tripod and ballhead per b&h recommendation (love it). Added rx-100 (saved photo and video at 2 different weddings - love it).

Added 5d2 kit which was quickly replaced by 5d3 kit (love it). Decided to raise prices on photography, even if it means loss of jobs. Just booked most expensive job to date yesterday  2013 is for lens upgrades. I already have Elinchrom strobes and Canon flash with modifiers.

Enjoy and have fun on your upgrade path


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