# DPReview and DxOMark to partner for lens testing



## mystic_theory (Oct 2, 2012)

So, it seems (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/News/DxOMark-news/DPReview-and-DxOMark-to-partner-for-lens-testing) that at last DPReview is trying to be a little bit more objective and quantitative. Their reviews are the best out there (to the best of my very limited knowledge), but sometimes here and there they sounded rather subjective and arbitrary: I assume they want to take a different approach from now on. 

The DxOMark overall scores, as a weighted average of scores on different performances, don't make much sense, but I guess that the collaboration is going to be an occasion to review that approach as well. I, as usual, will just pay attention to the plain measurements.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2012)

Flawed quantitative data analysis meets biased opinion. A match made in...well, let's just say _not_ heaven.


----------



## AmbientLight (Oct 2, 2012)

I completely agree on that statement.

After what I felt might be described as a phase of vendor-neutral test results (see their 70-200mm zoom tests as their greatest example) at DPReview their reputation is now likely do go down the drain, if they adopt DxO's mysterious ratings.


----------



## picturesbyme (Oct 2, 2012)

Awesome! 
Not a fan of either of them.
Now that they're "grouping" together it will be easier to ignore them


----------



## jthomson (Oct 2, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Flawed quantitative data analysis meets biased opinion. A match made in...well, let's just say _not_ heaven.



Shouldn't that be biased quantitative data analysis meets flawed opinion? ;D


----------



## nightbreath (Oct 2, 2012)

It might work for us or might not. Let's just see how it turns out in the end.


----------



## joshmurrah (Oct 2, 2012)

Not a fan in either case, so don't care here. 

I'm still not sure why Amazon bought out DPReview, other than to have a review blurb/link on product pages.


----------



## well_dunno (Oct 2, 2012)

I was not checking either of them for any lens reviews anyway so not much of a change for my part. More fond of photozone, lensrentals and the-digital-picture... 

Are there any other sites anyone would recommend for lens reviews?

Cheers!


----------



## Wilmark (Oct 2, 2012)

DP review isnt worth crap anymore, their site is just great for news. They spend far more time reviewing phones and point and shoot. They totally messed up the last rounds with the 5DIII and the D800. I have no respect for their reviews anymore.


----------



## distant.star (Oct 2, 2012)

.
Amazon is a marketing organization. They do not acquire a faux journalism outfit for objective data. They acquire them so they may say things that make people want to buy.

The state of objective journalism in the photography equipment world is pathetic when one guy on this forum and a guy running a rental house are the only real authorities you can trust.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2012)

jthomson said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Flawed quantitative data analysis meets biased opinion. A match made in...well, let's just say _not_ heaven.
> ...



Po-taaay-to, po-taaah-to. ;D


----------



## al2 (Oct 2, 2012)

well_dunno said:


> I was not checking either of them for any lens reviews anyway so not much of a change for my part. More fond of photozone, lensrentals and the-digital-picture...
> 
> Are there any other sites anyone would recommend for lens reviews?
> 
> Cheers!



The one other site I would recommend is LensTip.com. It's a Polish site. The reviewer seems to know optics. The reviews seem to be fair and rigorous. The english is a little awkward sometimes, but it's a lot better than my Polish so I'm not complaining.


----------



## distant.star (Oct 2, 2012)

well_dunno said:


> Are there any other sites anyone would recommend for lens reviews?




While there are some drawbacks and deficiencies, I've found the best lens evaluations at Optics Topics [ opticstopics.com ]. Their advanced laboratories in the Swiss Alps focus on wave optics, not to mention geometric optics -- AND quantum optics.

For photographers, one of their most revealing indexes is the quadratic photonomy scale. Using natural light only at a research center above 3000 meters, they actually measure the total number of photons that pass through each cubic micron of the individual lenses as well as each lens group over a certain period -- sometimes the Carboniferous, more often the Triassic.

On the downside, they don't seem to know much about sensors. But they can tell you how to get coated glass sparkling clean!

Oh, and Cheers to you too!


----------



## Canon-F1 (Oct 3, 2012)

dpreview is a POS.

since amazon bought them they should be ignored.

and they delete comments like mad. 
say something negative at dpreview about dpreview and you have a good chance it will be removed and you be banned (for "trolling").

they must be all from china or north korea there....


----------



## funkboy (Oct 3, 2012)

There are two sites that I really dig for lens reviews (notice I didn't say camera reviews). One of them is photozone.de, which seems to give a very good real-world perspective on how a lens will work on your camera & what it will (& won't) do for you.

The other one is lensrentals.com, which if you read this site needs no introduction.

luminous-landscape.com has IMHO the best impressions on the net of cameras from the user's perspective, i.e. how well they handle and how easy they are to use & travel with. It's also where I learned most of my fundamental photography technique, both digital and optical. There are other sites out there like digilloyd & reid reviews, but as long as photography remains a hobby for me I can't really justify sinking any money into a subscription to a review site.

Finally, if you really want to know how a sensor performs in low light, the astrophotography folks (clarkvision, thierry legault, etc) have excellent methodology for analyzing sensor performance.


----------



## jthomson (Oct 3, 2012)

al2 said:


> The one other site I would recommend is LensTip.com. It's a Polish site. The reviewer seems to know optics. The reviews seem to be fair and rigorous. The english is a little awkward sometimes, but it's a lot better than my Polish so I'm not complaining.



I visit his site from time to time and he does a pretty good job. 
As Roger at LensRentals pointed out the different sites use different methods and measurement so its hard to compare across the sites. LensTip is internally consistent, but I find that his edge MTF's don't match up relative to Photozone and LensRentals 


I'm actually going to say that if DPR just uses the raw data from DxO and puts it into their graphical form then it may be a usefull colaboration.

Its the DxO one number score that I can't figure out.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 3, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> dpreview is a POS.
> 
> 
> and they delete comments like mad.
> say something negative at dpreview about dpreview and you have a good chance it will be removed and you be banned (for "trolling").


IMHO, they do not ban enough users. Some still post there that are banned here.

I am concerned about the quality of the lens testing, and, in particular, how it is presented. The testing itself, is likely to be done carefully, but the most careful testing is not worth much if a lens is not properly adjusted, or is just exceptionaslly good (or bad).
This is a chance for them to hire a couple of good lens technicians who can adjust the lenses to remove and obvious QA issues so that we at least get values from a properly adjusted lens. That does not answer the concern over sample variation though.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Oct 3, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> IMHO, they do not ban enough users. Some still post there that are banned here.



how long are you on the internet? ;D
if someone is banned from a website he has a new account in 2 minutes.

it´s useless.

they should learn to live with criticism.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 3, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO, they do not ban enough users. Some still post there that are banned here.
> ...


I started using the Internet in about 1985. Long before there was a world wide web. , I There wasn't much but news groups and Gopher then, and we used Unix Commands on our Vax.
When the world wide web became available in 1992, I was a early adopter.
Occasionally, someone who is banned gets another IP, user name, and e-mail and starts posting again, however, a range of IP's can be banned as well.
I do not agree that a web site should just ignore abusers, spammers, etc because they occasionally come back with a new account.


----------



## emag (Oct 3, 2012)

It's been quite a while since I visited DPReview, I didn't know about all the changes. Years ago I bought a Canon G2 when it came out based on their review. A shame it's gone downhill.


----------



## Promature (Oct 3, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Occasionally, someone who is banned gets another IP, user name, and e-mail and starts posting again, however, a range of IP's can be banned as well.
> I do not agree that a web site should just ignore abusers, spammers, etc because they occasionally come back with a new account.



Agreed. Glad someone who knows about IP address filtering entered the room.


----------



## Promature (Oct 3, 2012)

distant.star said:


> The state of objective journalism in the photography equipment world is pathetic when one guy on this forum and a guy running a rental house are the only real authorities you can trust.



Agreed. I quite enjoy Roger and his entire lack of brand loyalty. Some of the better quotes I've seen:

*Sigma 300-800: “A perfect lens for surveillance use, its stealth black finish is unobtrusive and easily concealed.”
OK, let me get this straight: the lens weighs 13 pounds, is nearly 3 feet long with the hood mounted, and has a front element the size of a dinner plate. But by painting it black, it’s now “ unobtrusive and easily concealed”. If you mount it as a gun on a battleship, maybe.*

*Do you know the difference between a fairy tale and a Southern fairy tale? Well, a fairy tale starts “once upon a time.” A Southern fairy tale starts “Y’all aint gonna believe this S#@t!”. The 300mm f/2.8L IS is the Southern fairy tale of camera lenses. * 

*One effective technique to get some room when you’re at a crowded airshow: set the 600 vertically with the hood end on the ground, get a serious look on your face, and announce loudly “you folks should step back from the blast area before we launch this”.[/b**]*


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 3, 2012)

Promature said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Occasionally, someone who is banned gets another IP, user name, and e-mail and starts posting again, however, a range of IP's can be banned as well.
> ...


There are issues with IP filtering, I just do not mention them, enough trolls know how to work the system already without giving a tutorial.


----------



## Promature (Oct 3, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> There are issues with IP filtering, I just do not mention them, enough trolls know how to work the system already without giving a tutorial.



I understand. Just that doing the basics eliminates 99% of the problem users. There will always be the 1% that are cockroaches.


----------

