# How Much that Photographers get ?



## surapon (Aug 15, 2014)

Wow, I am very glad that I am not the real Photographer.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Media-and-Communication/Photographers.htm

Just my love Hobby = Photography Lover = Fine with me.
" Pay
The median hourly wage for photographers was $13.70 in May 2012. "
Surapon


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## Dylan777 (Aug 15, 2014)

Don't know how they came up with that number? My friends(currently pro-wedding) they ave about $12-$20K per month, working as a pair of course. They spend most their times in studio during work days to PP photos and shoot wedding in the weekend. 

You WILL NOT find a f4 lens in their studio  Min f2.8 or larger


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## privatebydesign (Aug 15, 2014)

There is a huge difference between billable gross and hourly wage, indeed the two are rarely connected. Of course a well set up business will be making money on all its billables, but there are a lot of outgoings on a $20k a month studio.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 16, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Don't know how they came up with that number? My friends(currently pro-wedding) they ave about $12-$20K per month, working as a pair of course. They spend most their times in studio during work days to PP photos and shoot wedding in the weekend.
> 
> You WILL NOT find a f4 lens in their studio  Min f2.8 or larger



As I read it, income level is for photographers that are working for someone else, and not for those who own a photography business. Usually, information like this comes from the Census. Those who run their own business can do very well, or lose their shirt. I doubt if those self employeed Craigslist photographers who advertise their services for $100 are doing very well, and they outnumber professional photographers 100-1


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## unfocused (Aug 16, 2014)

Absolutely no surprise to me at all. And, I don't think it is correct to assume that this is only photographers who work for others. 

I've done the math myself and concluded it would be very hard to make a go of it. Actually, I'd love to hear what some of the people on this site who do this full time make.

When I've done "back of the envelope" calculations it seems pretty tough. For example: wedding photographer – book 30 weddings a year at $2,500 each, that's $75,000 gross and I think it would be hard to get 30 bookings in a year (especially here in the Midwest). Plus, that's only wedding photographers, which is about the only remaining market today. That's a gross figure, and doesn't include any overhead (advertising, materials, equipment, assistants, etc. etc.)

Maybe some of the pro photographers can enlighten us.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2014)

Keep in mind it's a median number – half earn more, half less, based on the entire country. 

Looking at my own field, at my company we pay entry level new hires significantly more than the listed median.


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## nineyards (Aug 16, 2014)

surapon said:


> Wow, I am very glad that I am not the real Photographer.
> 
> http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Media-and-Communication/Photographers.htm
> 
> ...



I know one or two photographers who's sole income is from paid gigs, pretty hard to maintain your passion (and integrity) in such a cut throat business
Few people realize what goes into a photo shoot beyond snapping a pic, "easy peasy" as they say, so why pay more than the local Walmart charges,the craigslist "professionals" probably have a decent client base


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## jdramirez (Aug 16, 2014)

surapon said:


> The median hourly wage for photographers was $13.70 in May 2012. "[/color]
> Surapon



That includes the now nearly defunct Picture People, Olin Mills, Walmart has their company, JC Penney, etc. People in our craft that don't develop the infrastructure of the business get very little... 

But the problem is that anyone can be trained on how to take a photo... how to generate boiler plate isn't that hard... So you have people producing more than adequate work and the company as a whole is being compensated... 

The backdrops, the camera, the off camera flash, the lens, the printer... that is all paid for by the company... so the multitude of "professional" photographers don't make that much money... 

Having said that... We are what we are worth. If someone wants to hire me... I will quote them a price based on what I feel my value is... I have a portfolio to substantiate my claim and the customer ultimately determines where paying a premium is worth doing... having said that... I don't charge that much... I like to think I'm affordable because I like having fun doing the event... not because I need the money...


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## jdramirez (Aug 16, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know how they came up with that number? My friends(currently pro-wedding) they ave about $12-$20K per month, working as a pair of course. They spend most their times in studio during work days to PP photos and shoot wedding in the weekend.
> ...



Don't disparage Craig's list... where else can you buy camera gear, get a job using it, and find a "date" for the event all on the same site... though the date may cost more than the money you make doing the event.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 16, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Absolutely no surprise to me at all. And, I don't think it is correct to assume that this is only photographers who work for others.



The reason I said that it is employees is because business owners generally do not work for wages, only employees earn wages. The site linked to is a job site, as in for those looking for a job. It talks about what qualifications are needed to get hired.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 16, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know how they came up with that number? My friends(currently pro-wedding) they ave about $12-$20K per month, working as a pair of course. They spend most their times in studio during work days to PP photos and shoot wedding in the weekend.
> ...


After completed high school. I cont. with my 4yrs college. These two decided to start business. First two years were more like working for free - shooting local community events at no charge, church activities for free, small birthdays at small fees and of course small weddings at min charges. All these works were done in their 500sq-ft garage(no AC).

By the 4th year, their names pop-up in one of local Vietnamese news paper, just because they offered their services at one of the event at no charge.

Now, they are running 10,000sq-ft studio with AC . Their booking is always full. They ave about $2,000-$5,000 per wedding, each week. Sometimes, one on sat and one on sun. The real problem now a day for them is they have no life, beside pushing that shutter ;D


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## jdramirez (Aug 16, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The reason I said that it is employees is because business owners generally do not work for wages, only employees earn wages. The site linked to is a job site, as in for those looking for a job. It talks about what qualifications are needed to get hired.



An eye (both not needed), and a right index finger to hit the shutter...


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## agierke (Aug 16, 2014)

> Maybe some of the pro photographers can enlighten us.



my best month to date was just shy of 12,000.00. my minimum goal per week is 1000.00. i meet that goal more often than not, sometimes exceeding it greatly. year over year, i have had on average about a 15% increase in revenue for the last 4 or 5 years.

i do work that can range from 25.00 an hour to 100.00 an hour and from 150.00 flat rate to over 1000.00 day rate. it varies greatly.

i work with another photographer who exceeds 100k easily. another photographer i know is salaried at at least 80k. a very successful and talented wedding photographer i work with generally hits around 80k per year.

in the last 4 years i have personally known 3 photographers whose once successful businesses completely crashed.

many full time photography positions i see (typically studio ecommerce) pay anywhere from 12.50 an hour to 20.00 an hour. 

there is still good work out there if you network to find it. its not quite what it once was for as many people and there seems to be more people in the mix now but i have seen plenty of situations that don't reflect the numbers in the original post.


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## Omni Images (Aug 16, 2014)

In Australia we recently had a series of images sold to the highest bidder (a newspaper) for about 250K
There was a punch up between two very very rich and well know public figures near Bondi beach, would have loved to be that guy who got the shots ... Just goes to show you to have your camera on you at all times.


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## Omni Images (Aug 16, 2014)

Oh, also I was talking to some old guy a few years ago taking pics for a very small town newspaper at a skatepark I was installing .. we got talking, turns out he took a shot of a motocross rider ... Husqvarna bought it from him for 18K to use in advertisements etc.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 16, 2014)

There are several kinds of photography *Retail* photography is Portraits and Weddings. *Photojournalists* shoot for newspapers. *Editorial* photographers shoot for high-end magazines.* Advertising* photographers shoot photos used for ads. Some photographers shoot both *Editorial and Advertising*.

There a huge difference in pay between the low-end and the top-end.


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## Lawliet (Aug 16, 2014)

surapon said:


> Wow, I am very glad that I am not the real Photographer.



Looking at the photographers around town:
Quite a lot do day-to-day media work/small scale event coverage on a freelance basis. This pays, once you do the bookkeeping properly, below minimum wage for untrained labor.
A handful do work for in advertisement/commercial photography. That nets you an annual income similar to what you could expect as a MSc, although with greater fluctuations from month to month. The clients also pay for your creative input, giving you more freedom in that regard. And you meet interesting people & get to play with fancy toys. 

Anyone in the first group should take a step back and think thoroughly about your statement.
I'd say those who did either advanced into the second group or got a different job.


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## surapon (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks you so much, Dear Teachers and Friends.
Atleast, We start to talk and observe another one experience of Photography business and the Photographers , who earn the living by sell the creative (?) Photos.
Yes, I see the Real Photographers in work, To shoot the High school Students for the year book = They are just the ROBOTS---Set the equipments/ Lighting, the Background screen---And Keep on shooting/ Pressing the shutter by the remote control= Yes, They make a lot of money for their job, But----Just their Job= try to get the perfected exposure/ lighting at the face of the models.
Thanks you, Sir/ Madam to post and Talk in this Value Knowledge of the photography in the Money subjects.
Have a great work week.
Surapon

PS. One of my great Photography Teacher, teach me that= Most of Creative Brain and the Artistic Heart of Photographers= are increase by the proportion of the Great Whiskey in their Blood= Similar to the Photos below----Ha, Ha, Ha.----The More Whiskey in their Blood, The Creativity are increase and The Worry of the Money matter are decrease.


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## mackguyver (Aug 19, 2014)

Surapon, those are four of my favorite things ;D


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## justawriter (Aug 19, 2014)

I would guess that the photojournalists for smaller papers are pulling those wage numbers down. A saying I stole goes, "Journalists avoid a lot of income taxes by avoiding a lot of income." And unfortunately, a lot of publishers look at "content" (which used to be called news) as something to keep the ads from bumping into each other. "Content providers" are looked at as something cheap and easily replaceable. That's one reason the internet is killing the news business (another is that Craigslist has taken away a lot of the classified ad revenue that papers used to depend on). 
That being said, I find the news business to be a lot of fun and I am rarely bored and sometimes I can con talk my boss into kicking in a few bucks for a new toy for my camera.


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## surapon (Aug 19, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Surapon, those are four of my favorite things ;D



Dear Friend , Mr. mackguyver
I just count only = 3 Things in this photo that you like, What is the 4 Th. Item that you Prefer ?
No, No, NO---You can count each Item, Not the Quantity of the Items.
Ha, Ha, Ha.
Surapon


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## Click (Aug 19, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Surapon, those are four of my favorite things ;D



+1 ;D


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## poias (Aug 19, 2014)

One thing I have noticed is that Canon photographers earn significantly more. After all, when you pull out the white L lens, it screams top-end photographer.


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## Lawliet (Aug 19, 2014)

surapon said:


> No, No, NO---You can count each Item, Not the Quantity of the Items.



Maybe, just maybe: Camera, the drink, the (implied) strobes, and depending on personal preference the lens or the set of gels?
In certain locations, some additional clothing might be nice to have as well.


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## mackguyver (Aug 19, 2014)

Lawliet said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > No, No, NO---You can count each Item, Not the Quantity of the Items.
> ...


I was thinking (1) camera (2) bottle of Jack (3) bracelet (4) other bracelet, but then again, I may be the reason that bottle of Jack isn't full


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## AcutancePhotography (Aug 19, 2014)

"and the top 10 percent earned more than $32.21."

Yikes! That't the top 10%! 

I do not envy anyone trying to earn their living solely from photography.


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## V8Beast (Aug 19, 2014)

In my tiny corner of the photography world (automotive editorial), staff guys earn between $30-$45K. Beyond that, in the freelance/contract world, it's almost impossible to pin down an exact figure. On one end of the spectrum, there are people that work for nothing or next to nothing. They might only make a couple hundred dollars per year! They usually have full-time jobs in other professions, and shoot for fun. Some are itching to join a staff, but haven't had the opportunity to do so. 

On the other end of the editorial spectrum, there are guys who would never join a staff because they make way more money on a contracted basis. Many got started working on a staff, but quit upon realizing the greater earning potential doing contracted work. Annual earning range between $50K-$100K. Most fall right in the middle. That said, most full-time freelance photographers that specialize in editorial work also dabble in some product and advertising photography as well. 

The guys that clear $100K usually have a fair amount of public relations photography gigs, and do some editorial work on the side. By PR work, I referencing photographers that shoot images for OE manufacturers (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc) that will be distributed to media outlets. 

The top dogs in the business are commercial photographers that don't even bother with editorial work. These are they guys shooting brochures, ad campaigns, and billboards. In the U.S., you can count these guys on one or two hands  Everyone aspires to be as good as them someday. They can charge hundreds of thousands of dollars per shoot, but they also have full-time staff members, hoards of assistants, and 18-wheelers full of equipment that rack up the expenses. Even so, they earn hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

The unofficial hierarchy of earnings/prestige is:

1) Commercial photography
2) PR photography
3) Editorial photography 

Of course, that's just my opinion ;D


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## mackguyver (Aug 19, 2014)

Getting back to the topic (after Surapon's pleasant distraction), I shoot part-time and generally make good money, but there's not enough work to keep food on the table. Rates vary wildly by size and type of client, but I would have to have jobs at least 2-3 days a week (around 100 days/year) to replace the income I make from my consulting work that I do nearly full time. I generally have about 30-60 paid photo days a year, and there is a lot of inconsistency to them so I think it would be a struggle to live on that income alone. 

Now please excuse me while I return to the _gilded cage_ that is my primary profession.


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## xps (Aug 19, 2014)

How much will it be? 15.000€?


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## Lloyd (Aug 19, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> Don't disparage Craig's list... where else can you buy camera gear, get a job using it, and find a "date" for the event all on the same site... though the date may cost more than the money you make doing the event.


I would argue to the client that your Craigslist closely held business model allows you to charge more as it probably offers an enhanced product and gives the client the comfort in knowing they have hired two professionals for their special event.


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## RLPhoto (Aug 20, 2014)

I find that my jobs/month is about the same but my rates are starting to rise. Which is great if you don't have a car payment and the house is paid off. Which basically means I'm almost completely living off my photography income and sometimes getting the occasional big job that gets me a new piece of kit. 

I'd hate to have to do 30 weddings @ 2500 and I'd rather slowly build my portfolio to get 10 weddings at 5k each. My expenses are minimum and I don't burn myself out.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 20, 2014)

surapon said:


> Thanks you so much, Dear Teachers and Friends.
> Atleast, We start to talk and observe another one experience of Photography business and the Photographers , who earn the living by sell the creative (?) Photos.
> Yes, I see the Real Photographers in work, To shoot the High school Students for the year book = They are just the ROBOTS---Set the equipments/ Lighting, the Background screen---And Keep on shooting/ Pressing the shutter by the remote control= Yes, They make a lot of money for their job, But----Just their Job= try to get the perfected exposure/ lighting at the face of the models.
> Thanks you, Sir/ Madam to post and Talk in this Value Knowledge of the photography in the Money subjects.
> ...


Looks like he needs to AFMA his lens. Bottle of whiskey is completely out of focus.


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## Tabor Warren Photography (Aug 21, 2014)

My wife and my sole income is from our photography business, which we jumped into full time this January. It can definitely happen and is, in my humble opinion, the best job in the world. In our past lives, my wife was a CPA and I was a student at the College of Veterinary Science at Oklahoma State in Stillwater, OK. Now we get to see the kids every day, and our equipment is tax deductible, yay!

Cheers,
-Tabor


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## mackguyver (Aug 22, 2014)

Tabor Warren Photography said:


> My wife and my sole income is from our photography business, which we jumped into full time this January. It can definitely happen and is, in my humble opinion, the best job in the world. In our past lives, my wife was a CPA and I was a student at the College of Veterinary Science at Oklahoma State in Stillwater, OK. Now we get to see the kids every day, and our equipment is tax deductible, yay!
> 
> Cheers,
> -Tabor


Congrats and glad to hear that things are working out so well!


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## Valvebounce (Aug 28, 2014)

Hi Mr. Surapon. 
Camera right B left B bottle, four separate items! Also, girl with bottle seems optimistic, I estimate her hands are older than left and right by about the age of consent! 
On topic I don't earn from photography so no idea!

Cheers, Graham.



surapon said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > Surapon, those are four of my favorite things ;D
> ...


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## Don Haines (Aug 28, 2014)

Lawliet said:


> In certain locations, some additional clothing might be nice to have as well.



Canadian girl with camera.....


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## canon_guy (Aug 28, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Absolutely no surprise to me at all. And, I don't think it is correct to assume that this is only photographers who work for others.
> 
> I've done the math myself and concluded it would be very hard to make a go of it. Actually, I'd love to hear what some of the people on this site who do this full time make.
> 
> ...



Yhat's right, I first thought that initial post was a joke, but yes, this may be about photographers who work for others.


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