# The Canon EOS R3 will eliminate “Lag” and “Blackout” for stills shooters



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 15, 2021)

> There is very little new information coming around about the Canon EOS R3, the last being the confirmation of the 24mp resolution sensor.
> A small bit of information I did recently receive was about the blackout and/or lag that is present in the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 EVF when shooting still images. It’s not a huge deal for a lot of shooters, but I have seen various critiques about the lag present in the Canon EOS R5 being a bit annoying in certain shooting situations.
> I have been told that the Canon EOS R3 will not experience any issues with blackout and/or lag. The new image sensor in the Canon EOS R3 likely has a much faster...



Continue reading...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2021)

I’m sure it’s better on the R5, but the issue is very noticeable on my R, and annoying.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 15, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I’m sure it’s better on the R5, but the issue is very noticeable on my R, and annoying.



It's definitely better on the R5, but some sports shooters that I have spoken to don't think it's good enough, especially the lag. Most just say that it feels "off".


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## Chaitanya (Aug 15, 2021)

I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


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## Exploreshootshare (Aug 15, 2021)

Well, great to know that issue will be resolved with the R5 MK II/ R6 MK II cameras  

it’s very noticable on my R and along with the (lousy) FPS with autofocus one big weak point of the R.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 15, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Well, great to know that issue will be resolved with the R5 MK II/ R6 MK II cameras
> 
> it’s very noticable on my R and along with the (lousy) FPS with autofocus one big weak point of the R.



That isn't guaranteed. Sony have reserved the stacked sensors to the A9 and A1 line so far and I fully expect Canon to do the same to differ the pro bodies from the R5 and R6. If you need blackout free, high FPS, and low latency; then go buy the R1 or R3. If you need a general do everything camera, buy the R5 or R6. Mirrorless bodies are differentiated in many more ways than we seen in DLSR, now the high end can have faster startup times, lower latency, no blackout, higher resolution and faster EVF's, and gosh knows what else to differentiate them from the 5-series and 6-series.


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## Berowne (Aug 15, 2021)

I never noticed that there is a lag during stills-shooting in my R6 - until now.


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## tangerine_sedge (Aug 15, 2021)

This is possibly the most important spec so far announced for the R3.

This might (at last) enable action/sports photographers to switch to mirrorless...


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## Maximilian (Aug 15, 2021)

EOS R MILC system is getting more and more interesting to me -

except for the pricing


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## sanj (Aug 15, 2021)

I am glad this settles the 'Vari angle, touch screen' not belonging to pro cameras.


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## JoeDavid (Aug 15, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


He needs to add the vertical grip for 2x batteries. What bugs me about the grip is the cost. The Canon grip for the R cost $350 USD but includes the USB-C port *and *the Canon “blessed” USB charger and cable. The R5 grip also lists for $350 but the USB-C port and associated circuitry is already in place on the R5 body so no charging port on the grip and no USB charger but still the same high price…


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## FrenchFry (Aug 15, 2021)

I'm really interested in learning more about the EVF. Will it be the same as the R5 5.76m dots and 120fps refresh or will we get something closer to the A1's 9.44m dots and 240 fps?


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> That isn't guaranteed. Sony have reserved the stacked sensors to the A9 and A1 line so far and I fully expect Canon to do the same to differ the pro bodies from the R5 and R6.


I agree that it is not guaranteed and what you said makes sense.
On the other hand, it would mean a new image sensor for the R5 instead of reusing and old R1 sensor.


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## amfoto1 (Aug 15, 2021)

I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


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## john1970 (Aug 15, 2021)

Nice to know that the is zero lag and blackout. Sounds like the R3 should be a fast camera with excellent noise and AF in low light.


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## Sporgon (Aug 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> That isn't guaranteed. Sony have reserved the stacked sensors to the A9 and A1 line so far and I fully expect Canon to do the same to differ the pro bodies from the R5 and R6. If you need blackout free, high FPS, and low latency; then go buy the R1 or R3. If you need a general do everything camera, buy the R5 or R6. Mirrorless bodies are differentiated in many more ways than we seen in DLSR, now the high end can have faster startup times, lower latency, no blackout, higher resolution and faster EVF's, and gosh knows what else to differentiate them from the 5-series and 6-series.


So maybe using a mirror and prism to see through the lens wasn’t such a bad idea after all……


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## FrenchFry (Aug 15, 2021)

tangerine_sedge said:


> This is possibly the most important spec so far announced for the R3.
> 
> This might (at last) enable action/sports photographers to switch to mirrorless...


It would also be interesting to know if the R3 has improved start up times from off and improved wake up times from sleep. The half second extra that mirrorless takes to wake up over DSLRs can cost some shots for sports and wildlife.
Of course, with the better battery, it might be possible to have the camera sleep a lot less often. But it would still be great to see improvements.


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## FrenchFry (Aug 15, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> So maybe using a mirror and prism to see through the lens wasn’t such a bad idea after all……


Are you suggesting the next big advancement in pro mirrorless bodies would be to add a mirror?


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## Sporgon (Aug 15, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Are you suggesting the next big advancement in pro mirrorless bodies would be to add a mirror?


 You never know ! Look at the tech that is required to match the simple reflection of light


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## AEWest (Aug 15, 2021)

I believe all cameras going forward will have articulating screens because this is necessary for video.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 15, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I agree that it is not guaranteed and what you said makes sense.
> On the other hand, it would mean a new image sensor for the R5 instead of reusing and old R1 sensor.



Only the R6 has used a ‘old’ 1-series sensor. Stacked sensors don’t become cheeper compared to BSI and traditional after being produced for four years. You can still make more simper sensors for the R5 mark 2 and 3 with different features to appeal to that market like higher megapixels. The stacked sensor also kinda necessities a faster EVF which is expensive. Imagine the R1 mark 2 is 45MP stacked with a 16m dot 360hz EVF and a 20ms power flick to picture startup time and the R5 mark 2 has a 16m dot 120hz EVF with some 66MP on a BSI sensor and a 100ms switch on to picture. In both cases these are vastly better than today, but with features aimed at very different markets. 120hz and even 60hz is fine for most wedding and even most shooters in general. 360hz however has significantly less lag between the image and real world and less click to action lag (moving a focus point would feel snappier). 100ms is way faster that the current mirrorless bodies but you can sell the next R1 on instant startup like we had with earlier DSLR and digital cameras that could have multiple second startup times compared to a pro body.


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## snappy604 (Aug 15, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I’m sure it’s better on the R5, but the issue is very noticeable on my R, and annoying.


The R lag was bad. The R5 by default (ECO mode) has noticeable lag, but it feels like an OVF when eco mode is off.. i do some birding.

however it does chew batteries. Spent a long time trying to find a balance.. mostly learned to turn off the tiltable LCD screen by default


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## snappy604 (Aug 15, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
> I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


It is possible it's heat. The cfexpress I have gets really hot and not just in the camera, reader too


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## mbike999 (Aug 15, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe all cameras going forward will have articulating screens because this is necessary for video.


Greatly prefer a Fuji XT-3 or Panasonic S1H style screen though. Having dangly bits off to the side isn't always ideal.


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## entoman (Aug 15, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


I shoot wildlife, BIF and IIF (insects in flight) with R5. I don't find the lag to be a problem during burst shooting, but the lag is a real pain in the butt when applying the first half-press to the shutter button. There's nothing worse than quickly raising the camera to the eye, touching the button to activate the camera, and then having to wait while the EVF turns itself on, while the subject meanwhile has long gone. It's also a pain that the EVF turns itself off 4 seconds after removing your eye. There are workarounds (such as putting black tape over the eyepiece sensor, or tapping the preview button before raising the camera) but the EVF lag is a problem in some circumstances.

... and yes, the battery life is atrocious, even with everything set up for minimum power usage - especially if you use adapted EF glass because the power needed to move the elements in many of them is power-draining. The only option, if you don't want to get caught out with a flat battery in the midle of the action, is to have a loaded battery grip, and even thenm you often need a spare set to get you through a long day.


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 15, 2021)

JoeDavid said:


> He needs to add the vertical grip for 2x batteries.


I have a vertical grip for my R5 and the battery life still sucks. 
2 x 0 = 0


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## Danglin52 (Aug 15, 2021)

While that might be true for a few generations, tech tends to trickle down in the higher end consumer cameras. We have AF in the R5 & R6 rivaling the 1dx II that we would never have expected. While I don't expect that tech in the lower level R type camera any time soon, I think it will appear int he R5 & R6 Level. Don't forget, the R3 is not the "flagship" camera.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Aug 15, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I’m sure it’s better on the R5, but the issue is very noticeable on my R, and annoying.


I don't notice the issue at all with my R5 but I'm not a birder or wildlife shooter.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Aug 15, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
> I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


I agree, 2 CFx slots would be great.


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## Ozarker (Aug 15, 2021)

This sounds great! Gonna be a fantastic camera. If the Mark II makes it to 30mp then I'll be a buyer.


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## entoman (Aug 15, 2021)

mbike999 said:


> Greatly prefer a Fuji XT-3 or Panasonic S1H style screen though. Having dangly bits off to the side isn't always ideal.


Also a S1H-style screen that is always on-axis with the lens, makes it a lot easier to locate and follow a moving subject, especially when using a long lens. With an articulated screen you have to switch your eyes back and forth between the screen on the left and the subject straight ahead, which is far from ideal.


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## djack41 (Aug 15, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


Suggest a battery grip. Problem solved.


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## Danglin52 (Aug 15, 2021)

entoman said:


> I shoot wildlife, BIF and IIF (insects in flight) with R5. I don't find the lag to be a problem during burst shooting, but the lag is a real pain in the butt when applying the first half-press to the shutter button. There's nothing worse than quickly raising the camera to the eye, touching the button to activate the camera, and then having to wait while the EVF turns itself on, while the subject meanwhile has long gone. It's also a pain that the EVF turns itself off 4 seconds after removing your eye. There are workarounds (such as putting black tape over the eyepiece sensor, or tapping the preview button before raising the camera) but the EVF lag is a problem in some circumstances.
> 
> ... and yes, the battery life is atrocious, even with everything set up for minimum power usage - especially if you use adapted EF glass because the power needed to move the elements in many of them is power-draining. The only option, if you don't want to get caught out with a flat battery in the midle of the action, is to have a loaded battery grip, and even thenm you often need a spare set to get you through a long day.


I haven't found the lag a big problem for wildlife, but the "wake/startup" time you reference is an issue. I shoot with a grip which extends the shooting time but keeping the camera awake stilll burns through batteries. I usually carry 6 LP-E6H batteries in the field and don't usually have an issue with a day of shooting. I bought a couple of the Jupio dual chargers that I use instead of the single Canon charger. Works for me, but you have to anticipate motion and make sure your camera is awake when needed.


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## djack41 (Aug 15, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I have a vertical grip for my R5 and the battery life still sucks.
> 2 x 0 = 0


Hmmm. I shoot BIF with a R5/battery grip and have no battery life problem.


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## entoman (Aug 15, 2021)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> I agree, 2 CFx slots would be great.


Yes, and it beats me why Canon doesn't do a deal with Delkin or SanDisk, enabling them to sell the cameras with a couple of 128GB cards as a package, saving money for the customer, and increasing sales for the card manufacturer. It would also guarantee full operational compatibilty, which can be a worry when you're spending nearly $200 on a card!


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## john1970 (Aug 15, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I have a vertical grip for my R5 and the battery life still sucks.
> 2 x 0 = 0


I also have the vertical grip for the R5, but battery life relative to my old 1Dx Mk2 is dramatically shorter. I always take a second pair of batteries out with me into the field.


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## AlanF (Aug 15, 2021)

entoman said:


> I shoot wildlife, BIF and IIF (insects in flight) with R5. I don't find the lag to be a problem during burst shooting, but the lag is a real pain in the butt when applying the first half-press to the shutter button. There's nothing worse than quickly raising the camera to the eye, touching the button to activate the camera, and then having to wait while the EVF turns itself on, while the subject meanwhile has long gone. It's also a pain that the EVF turns itself off 4 seconds after removing your eye. There are workarounds (such as putting black tape over the eyepiece sensor, or tapping the preview button before raising the camera) but the EVF lag is a problem in some circumstances.
> 
> ... and yes, the battery life is atrocious, even with everything set up for minimum power usage - especially if you use adapted EF glass because the power needed to move the elements in many of them is power-draining. The only option, if you don't want to get caught out with a flat battery in the midle of the action, is to have a loaded battery grip, and even thenm you often need a spare set to get you through a long day.


Just do what I keep posting here: as soon as you start to lift your camera to your eye, half press the shutter. By the time the evf has reached your eye, the camera is fully active.


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## Shellbo6901 (Aug 15, 2021)

Is there lag for the screen? I just figured it was the same image/info etc shown in the evf as the screen.


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## exige24 (Aug 15, 2021)

What a meh camera.


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## entoman (Aug 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Just do what I keep posting here: as soon as you start to lift your camera to your eye, half press the shutter. By the time the evf has reached your eye, the camera is fully active.


Appreciate your comment, and your dragonfly photography is fabulous. But the method you describe is only really feasible if you use back button focus. Unfortunately at 70 my coordination is no longer good enough to use that method.

If the AF is activated normally (by half press of the shutter button), the camera will start focusing *before* I get the camera to my eye, and that means it might be hunting like crazy searching for a bird that isn't yet even in the frame. The best workaround I've found, for my own style of shooting, is to momentarily tap the preview button to activate the EVF (but not the AF), before I raise the camera.

The real point I think is that Canon needs to invest in tech to reduce the EVF activation time to near-zero, and to introduce a simple firmware update that will enable users to keep the EVF active for more than 4 seconds after the eye is removed from the eyepiece - if I'm hand holding a 100-400mm or heavier lens, my arms need a rest occasionally, and I don't want to have to keep tapping a button to keep the camera awake if I remove it from my eye for a few seconds.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2021)

entoman said:


> The real point I think is that Canon needs to invest in tech to reduce the EVF activation time to near-zero,


Perhaps they have. The issue to date may be more than just time to activate the EVF, it may also be time to get the readout coming off the sensor. If the architecture of the R3's sensor makes that faster, the EVF activation lag may be reduced or eliminated. I hope that's the case for the R3. We'll find out, at some point (hopefully soon).


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2021)

exige24 said:


> What a meh camera.


Good thing no one will force you to buy one, then.


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## tapanit (Aug 15, 2021)

entoman said:


> Appreciate your comment, and your dragonfly photography is fabulous. But the method you describe is only really feasible if you use back button focus. Unfortunately at 70 my coordination is no longer good enough to use that method.
> 
> If the AF is activated normally (by half press of the shutter button), the camera will start focusing *before* I get the camera to my eye, and that means it might be hunting like crazy searching for a bird that isn't yet even in the frame. The best workaround I've found, for my own style of shooting, is to momentarily tap the preview button to activate the EVF (but not the AF), before I raise the camera.
> 
> The real point I think is that Canon needs to invest in tech to reduce the EVF activation time to near-zero, and to introduce a simple firmware update that will enable users to keep the EVF active for more than 4 seconds after the eye is removed from the eyepiece - if I'm hand holding a 100-400mm or heavier lens, my arms need a rest occasionally, and I don't want to have to keep tapping a button to keep the camera awake if I remove it from my eye for a few seconds.


I should think it'd be easy enough to use a motion detector to use the movement of the camera up to activate the EVF, without waiting for any buttons to be pressed. The motion of lifting the camera up should be distinct enough that it could avoid being activated during transport &c.

Canon, if you're reading this: I haven't patented the idea.


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## john1970 (Aug 15, 2021)

tapanit said:


> I should think it'd be easy enough to use a motion detector to use the movement of the camera up to activate the EVF, without waiting for any buttons to be pressed. The motion of lifting the camera up should be distinct enough that it could avoid being activated during transport &c.
> 
> Canon, if you're reading this: I haven't patented the idea.


A great idea!


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## entoman (Aug 15, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Perhaps they have. The issue to date may be more than just time to activate the EVF, it may also be time to get the readout coming off the sensor. If the architecture of the R3's sensor makes that faster, the EVF activation lag may be reduced or eliminated. I hope that's the case for the R3. We'll find out, at some point (hopefully soon).


It would be nice to think that is the case, let's hope so.

I haven't noticed any Canon patents relating to using a motion sensor to activate the EVF, but tapanit's suggestion amounts to a very sensible and practical potential solution that Canon and some other MILC brands would be wise to investigate.


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## jam05 (Aug 15, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
> I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


Because SDexpress will be faster than many CF cards


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## jam05 (Aug 15, 2021)

Basically no news at all.


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## unfocused (Aug 15, 2021)

This is a big deal for me. Athletes always want a portrait where they are looking at the camera while tossing the ball into the air with the ball frozen In mid-air. With a DSLR it’s a pretty easy shot. With the R it’s ridiculously difficult to time and with the R5 it’s only marginally better. Hoping it will be fixed in the R3.


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## AlanF (Aug 15, 2021)

entoman said:


> Appreciate your comment, and your dragonfly photography is fabulous. But the method you describe is only really feasible if you use back button focus. Unfortunately at 70 my coordination is no longer good enough to use that method.
> 
> If the AF is activated normally (by half press of the shutter button), the camera will start focusing *before* I get the camera to my eye, and that means it might be hunting like crazy searching for a bird that isn't yet even in the frame. The best workaround I've found, for my own style of shooting, is to momentarily tap the preview button to activate the EVF (but not the AF), before I raise the camera.
> 
> The real point I think is that Canon needs to invest in tech to reduce the EVF activation time to near-zero, and to introduce a simple firmware update that will enable users to keep the EVF active for more than 4 seconds after the eye is removed from the eyepiece - if I'm hand holding a 100-400mm or heavier lens, my arms need a rest occasionally, and I don't want to have to keep tapping a button to keep the camera awake if I remove it from my eye for a few seconds.


I wish I was 70 again - youth is wasted on the young! I've been using back-button focus for many years, now with two buttons for two different modes, and it's second nature. I don't know of course your particular circumstances but perhaps some practice sessions might get you going. Thanks for the comments about my dragonflies.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2021)

entoman said:


> It would be nice to think that is the case, let's hope so.
> 
> I haven't noticed any Canon patents relating to using a motion sensor to activate the EVF, but tapanit's suggestion amounts to a very sensible and practical potential solution that Canon and some other MILC brands would be wise to investigate.


Agreed. Since there are already gyroscopic sensors to detect camera motion (for which IBIS compensates), it should be relatively easy to implement. Fitness watches can determine pattetns of motion associated with various types of exercise, or with a fall, so similarly programming detection of the camera raise motion should be quite feasible.


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## entoman (Aug 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> This is a big deal for me. Athletes always want a portrait where they are looking at the camera while tossing the ball into the air with the ball frozen In mid-air. With a DSLR it’s a pretty easy shot. With the R it’s ridiculously difficult to time and with the R5 it’s only marginally better. Hoping it will be fixed in the R3.


If Canon had created a "5DMk5" using the 45MP sensor from the R5, and worked a bit harder to reduce the noise and vibration of the mirror/shutter assembly, I would have chosen it instead of the R5.

Mirrorless cameras have many advantages over DSLRs, but for wildlife photography I still rate DSLRs as more suitable.

But, having said that, I know several BIF photographers who get stunning results from the R5, so I'm the first to admit that my photography is more limited by my own abilities than by the equipment I use...


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 15, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Because SDexpress will be faster than many CF cards



CF Express can be faster or equal in speed to SD Express. SD Express isn’t magically going to work on the current slots at full speed, in fact it is going to run at UHS-I speeds maximum on older cameras. So right now the R3 has a crippled SD reader that will get worse if you use SD Express. 

As for why there isn’t a second slot it is most likely they ran out of PCIe lanes as you can run SD on a potato with the GPS if it has one and dedicate the fast lanes to Ethernet, WiFi, and the main card.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 15, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.


For me personally, a fast card and a ubiquitous card combination are what I need most. I‘d shoot RAW to the fast card and jpegs to the SD card and I know I can give the SD card to pretty much anybody with a laptop or tablet and they can use those images quickly for social media etc.

It’s not about the cost of the cards for me, it about the utility of them, anybody tasked with dealing with social media posts knows about and has access to an SD card reader.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 15, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> It's definitely better on the R5, but some sports shooters that I have spoken to don't think it's good enough, especially the lag. Most just say that it feels "off".


I am not a sports shooter so i didnt really notice it on the R5 but the R was terrible for any fast paced continuous shooting.


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## snappy604 (Aug 15, 2021)

Danglin52 said:


> I haven't found the lag a big problem for wildlife, but the "wake/startup" time you reference is an issue. I shoot with a grip which extends the shooting time but keeping the camera awake stilll burns through batteries. I usually carry 6 LP-E6H batteries in the field and don't usually have an issue with a day of shooting. I bought a couple of the Jupio dual chargers that I use instead of the single Canon charger. Works for me, but you have to anticipate motion and make sure your camera is awake when needed.


so much this. the wake up is a bit slower and keeping it active chews batteries fairly fast, but having said that.. I end up with too many keepers almost.. insane # of shots I kind of get overwhelmed with editing. It's forcing me to re-think my process.


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## AlanF (Aug 15, 2021)

tapanit said:


> I should think it'd be easy enough to use a motion detector to use the movement of the camera up to activate the EVF, without waiting for any buttons to be pressed. The motion of lifting the camera up should be distinct enough that it could avoid being activated during transport &c.
> 
> Canon, if you're reading this: I haven't patented the idea.


It would be coming on all the time when you are walking around with the camera just like the continuous AF mode that operates when you are not half-pressing the shutter and drains the battery.


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## entoman (Aug 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> It would be coming on all the time when you are walking around with the camera just like the continuous AF mode that operates when you are not half-pressing the shutter and drains the battery.



Obviously it's not a simple thing to produce an algorithm that expressly recognises the action of quickly raising a camera vertically, and is be able to differentiate from other movement types such as those you refer to, but I think it's perfectly feasible - all it needs is for Canon (etc) to invest in the necessary R&D.

But, a better solution would be to develop an EVF that had zero lag.

Or, perhaps just make the shutter button touch sensitive, so that an initial touch activated the EVF, then half-pressure activated the AF and metering, and full pressure took the photo. The potential problem with the latter solution is that it wouldn't work with gloved hands, but most photographers I know cut off the tips of the glove index finger anyway, so it isn't a huge issue..


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 15, 2021)

The R5 startup could be fixed by moving the power button to the shutter like Nikon. In one action I have the camera switched on and up to my face then focusing. I also have the EVF sleep switched off so it is always running as long as the switch is on. I don't understand the positioning of the power button on Canon mirrorless just now, it only makes sense when the camera can ether wake instantly and/or has the battery life of a DSLR.


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## AlanF (Aug 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> The R5 startup could be fixed by moving the power button to the shutter like Nikon. In one action I have the camera switched on and up to my face then focusing. I also have the EVF sleep switched off so it is always running as long as the switch is on. I don't understand the positioning of the power button on Canon mirrorless just now, it only makes sense when the camera can ether wake instantly and/or has the battery life of a DSLR.


Half pressing the shutter button on the R5 powers it up from sleep.


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## FrenchFry (Aug 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> The R5 startup could be fixed by moving the power button to the shutter like Nikon. In one action I have the camera switched on and up to my face then focusing. I also have the EVF sleep switched off so it is always running as long as the switch is on. I don't understand the positioning of the power button on Canon mirrorless just now, it only makes sense when the camera can ether wake instantly and/or has the battery life of a DSLR.


I would be a huge fan of a shutter with built-in power button. I've gotten used to it, but this was the hardest thing for me to adjust to on the R5 coming from Nikon.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Half pressing the shutter button on the R5 powers it up from sleep.



Same on Nikon, but it is so much easier just flicking it off when you lower it and flicking it on when it is time for action. My camera never sleeps and is always ready for the shot. The switch is in just such a fantastic location for bodies that drain batteries.


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## dcm (Aug 15, 2021)

On the R6, I close the LCD and run display performance in power saving mode. I may not be as demanding as others, but I find I can do just about everything I want through the EVF. This saves the battery and the camera never has to switch displays. I can go all day on a single battery with ~500 shots. I carry a spare but haven't changed yet during a shoot unless I started with a partial charge. 

Closing the LCD saves the delay switching from the LCD to the EVF - it is always in EVF mode. This means just about anything I touch will turn the EVF on immediately - no delay. I can toggle the multicontroller with my thumb, tap the DOF preview button with my ring finger, tap the M-Fn button with my index finger, etc. and the EVF turns on immediately and is fully functional when it reaches my eye.

If I don't do anything, it's about 2 seconds from the time I start lifting the camera, less than a second after my eye reaches the EVF.


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## Hector1970 (Aug 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> This is a big deal for me. Athletes always want a portrait where they are looking at the camera while tossing the ball into the air with the ball frozen In mid-air. With a DSLR it’s a pretty easy shot. With the R it’s ridiculously difficult to time and with the R5 it’s only marginally better. Hoping it will be fixed in the R3.


Why is it difficult to time with an R and R5? What makes it different to shooting with a DSLR?


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## AlanF (Aug 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Same on Nikon, but it is so much easier just flicking it off when you lower it and flicking it on when it is time for action. My camera never sleeps and is always ready for the shot. The switch is in just such a fantastic location for bodies that drain batteries.


But, the R5 doesn’t drain the battery in sleep mode.


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## AlanF (Aug 15, 2021)

dcm said:


> On the R6, I close the LCD and run display performance in power saving mode. I may not be as demanding as others, but I find I can do just about everything I want through the EVF. This saves the battery and the camera never has to switch displays. I can go all day on a single battery with ~500 shots. I carry a spare but haven't changed yet during a shoot unless I started with a partial charge.
> 
> Closing the LCD saves the delay switching from the LCD to the EVF - it is always in EVF mode. This means just about anything I touch will turn the EVF on immediately - no delay. I can toggle the multicontroller with my thumb, tap the DOF preview button with my ring finger, tap the M-Fn button with my index finger, etc. and the EVF turns on immediately and is fully functional when it reaches my eye.
> 
> If I don't do anything, it's about 2 seconds from the time I start lifting the camera, less than a second after my eye reaches the EVF.


Same here. The LCD is permanently turned in except for rare occasions when I reprogram.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> But, the R5 doesn’t drain the battery in sleep mode.



No camera drains battery in sleep mode.


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## unfocused (Aug 15, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> Why is it difficult to time with an R and R5? What makes it different to shooting with a DSLR?


Person standing there with the ball in the palm of their hand, they begin to toss the ball. You press the shutter. The ball is already out of the frame because of the lag time. With a DSLR, you press the shutter and the ball is still in the frame. I don't know why, but that's the way it is. I suspect it is because the image you see in the viewfinder lags behind the real world action.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> No camera drains battery in sleep mode.


GPS.


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## David - Sydney (Aug 15, 2021)

entoman said:


> Yes, and it beats me why Canon doesn't do a deal with Delkin or SanDisk, enabling them to sell the cameras with a couple of 128GB cards as a package, saving money for the customer, and increasing sales for the card manufacturer. It would also guarantee full operational compatibilty, which can be a worry when you're spending nearly $200 on a card!


A good reason would be that Canon hasn't officially approved Delkin at all or Sandisk except for their 512GB card. Canon specifically doesn't not approve the Sandisk 128/64GB cards
https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART177429&actp=LIST
Can't imagine that Canon would bundle a Sony card so the only other alternative CFe 128GB card to bundle would be Lexar
Note that the same approved list for the 1DXiii
https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/in...earch&viewlocale=en_US&searchid=1595914608082


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## deleteme (Aug 15, 2021)

Blackout has never been an issue for me and the R5. Blackout was never an issue in DSLRs either.
With each new camera or sensor reviewers seem to search for a new "issue".

In the very first years of digital it was blue channel noise. When that was solved they moved on to noise in general. Then it was shutter lag. Next High ISO noise. Never mind that the ISOs in question were nearly unusable in film days.
Then the bête noire was dynamic range. Now that is really not an issue we need to find new "issues".

Frankly, any new issue found today will most likely need a microscope to see.


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## David - Sydney (Aug 15, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Because SDexpress will be faster than many CF cards


back to this chestnut? SDexpress specs allow it to be faster but there is no availability in the near future. Certainly not for the R3 and probably not for the R1 if announced next year. Dual CFe would be expected for the R1 as backward compatible with the 1DXiii/R5/R3. They could do a combined USHii-SD and CFe type A like the A1 but Sony is still the only manufacturer of CFe type A cards in the market


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## David - Sydney (Aug 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> CF Express can be faster or equal in speed to SD Express. SD Express isn’t magically going to work on the current slots at full speed, in fact it is going to run at UHS-I speeds maximum on older cameras. So right now the R3 has a crippled SD reader that will get worse if you use SD Express.
> 
> As for why there isn’t a second slot it is most likely they ran out of PCIe lanes as you can run SD on a potato with the GPS if it has one and dedicate the fast lanes to Ethernet, WiFi, and the main card.


How would the A1 work then as the CFe Type A cards only have one PCIe lane?


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## Famateur (Aug 16, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> It would also be interesting to know if the R3 has improved start up times from off and improved wake up times from sleep. The half second extra that mirrorless takes to wake up over DSLRs can cost some shots for sports and wildlife.
> Of course, with the better battery, it might be possible to have the camera sleep a lot less often. But it would still be great to see improvements.


I've programmed the multifunction button (by the shutter release button), to initiate sleep on my R5. Initially, it was to keep the lens image stabilization from running constantly, but it saves battery, too. Half press of the shutter button (or just bringing my eye up to the viewfinder, which trips the viewfinder sensor), and it's awake again in an instant. I also keep the R5 in airplane mode to extend battery life. On a full charge, I'm easily getting 1,500 to 2,000 shots with a single battery...

As far as viewfinder lag, I do notice it, particularly when shooting barrel racing. Thankfully, the horses are moving in a predictable direction at a relatively consistent pace, so once you get used to the lag, it's not much of an issue. Would still be nice to eliminate it, though!


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## David - Sydney (Aug 16, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
> I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


Not a matter of cost. My 128GB USH-ii SD card cost the same as my CFe 128GB card last year and then are still the same price for the Sony tough versions today. I know that some people prefer the backward compatibility for the SD card but dual cards makes more sense to me. Dual CFe cards could be a heat issue for the R5 in stills mode so that alone would nix dual cards for Canon.


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## bergstrom (Aug 16, 2021)

Why can't camera companies advertise their camera with all the problems that you're paying for.


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## Mr Majestyk (Aug 16, 2021)

It would have been news if that wasn't the case. Of course blackout will be banished, but lag comes down to EVF refresh rate. The A9 has noticeable lag. If they put a low refresh rate even the stacked sensor won't help. I'm hoping it's a minimum of 120Hz at full res and that it's at least 5.76MP, but a bump to 7.37MP (1920 x 1280) would be nice.


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## unfocused (Aug 16, 2021)

entoman said:


> Yes, and it beats me why Canon doesn't do a deal with Delkin or SanDisk...


Might have something to do with the disastrous bundling of cards with the 1DxII. How soon we forget.


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## unfocused (Aug 16, 2021)

Normalnorm said:


> Blackout has never been an issue for me and the R5. Blackout was never an issue in DSLRs either.
> With each new camera or sensor reviewers seem to search for a new "issue"...
> 
> ...Frankly, any new issue found today will most likely need a microscope to see.


Well, lag time is a very real issue for me. Just because it doesn't affect how you use your camera doesn't mean it doesn't affect others.


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## Schumey (Aug 16, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
> I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


I think considering how hot one CFExpress card gets, two would be unmanageable. I'm an R5 user and I'm constantly amazed how hot this card gets, even in an external reader.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Aug 16, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


I definitely get lag on the R6. Not so much in ES but due to the rolling shutter that is no good when panning. With the EFC or full mech shutter there is definitely some lag. The more I use it the more I can learn to del with it but it still means that if conditions are good enough (re light) then I will shoot with the 7d2


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## mpmark (Aug 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I’m sure it’s better on the R5, but the issue is very noticeable on my R, and annoying.


I do practically only wildlife with the R5 and it’s honesty no big deal, you adjust. I own the R as well and it’s substantially slower and laggy yes.


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## mpmark (Aug 16, 2021)

Schumey said:


> I think considering how hot one CFExpress card gets, two would be unmanageable. I'm an R5 user and I'm constantly amazed how hot this card gets, even in an external reader.



The card won’t get too hot if you remove it after writing the files. If you leave the card reader connected after you’re done with it it continues to heat up. Don’t ask me why. I unplug it right after and it’s still cool.


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## mpmark (Aug 16, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> So maybe using a mirror and prism to see through the lens wasn’t such a bad idea after all……


Until you try to lock focus in the corners of the frames lol


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## aceflibble (Aug 16, 2021)

It's not physically possible for a mirrorless system to actually fully eliminate lag. Even SLRs can't fully, 100% eliminate lag, and they have a much faster and simpler pipeline to work with.

With any mirrorless system the light has to come in through the lens and hit the sensor, go through the ADC, be configured into RGB channels as dictated by the currently selected martix, encoded into a reference image using the currently selected colour profile, that compilation is then used to evaluate white balance, exposure and focus, those exposure and focus systems then have to adjust in whatever way the current shooting settings dictate, _now_ the whole cycle so far is repeated again and compared to the first cycle, then assuming there are no more exposure or focus adjustments to be made (if there are the cycle will repeat), the currently-formed image is duplicated, with the buffer storing one copy for reference while another is resampled to the resolution of the viewfinder, which holds the image until the next screen refresh and then, finally, displays it in the viewfinder. _Then_ as with any other design, your eye has to actually see the image, your finger has to press the shutter, the CPU has to recieve that capture command, the aperture has ot be stopped down to whatever the chosen setting is, then the shutter has to activate, the captured frame goes through that whole pipeline _again_, and the image is sent into the buffer to be saved to a card.

Okay, deep breath.

Did you get all that? Yeah, it's a lot. At least with an SLR the image doesn't have to be duplicated, rescaled and held for a screen refresh, since it just bounces up through the OVF at literally the speed of light. Even then, the fastest SLRs (1D & D6) have lag of around 35ms, only with the mirror locked up and when activated automatically (i.e. no human reflexes to slow them down). The least-laggy mirrorless camera right now is the Sony a1 at around 90ms with a mechanical shutter or 55ms (+/-) with the electronic shutter. (Canon claim the R5 can do 50ms electronic, but that's only with manual focus, manual exposure, the aperture left fully open and shooting a perfectly-lit medium grey card; I don't count that because it's simply such a totally unrealistic scenario.)

Physically, if we're charitable and allow the minimal electronic travel lag of 5ms, the least laggy an EVF can ever be is a delay of about 9ms, which is right on the edge of what the healthiest 20-something human can respond to anyway. That's if it has a refresh rate of 240Hz, which currently no OLED screen manufacturered for viewfinders achieves. 120hz is the current maximum manufactured, so the _physical minimum_ lag currently is 13ms, which is a delay that most of the world's population between age 12 and 50 can perceive. This also assumes there's only a single frame refresh sync and no delay for anti-flicker systems, etc. No camera manufacturer wants to risk screen tearing, so the actual refresh sync delay is always two or three frames, bumping us up to a bare physical minimum of 21ms. And then, again, there is the shutter activation on top.
In camera shutter speed terms that's 1/48th. So if you think of the period of time your camera captures when set to a shuter of 1/50th, that's the period of time that is the _physical minimum_ a camera can cut its total lag down to.
And, again, that's being _extremely_ _unrealistically charitable_ and minimising all that processing down to purely the electronic travel time, when in reality all that processing comes up as more like 25ms or so. Add the shutter activation, which is again a bare physical minimum of 5ms and more often closer to 20ms alone, and we're easily up to around the 50-60ms ballpark that the a1 currently maxes out at.

Further more, eliminating blackout is done by delaying the viewfinder by one or more frames, increasing visual lag. You can't get rid of blackout without increasing overall system lag; it's not physically possible.

So if we're really, really nice to Canon and pretend they've made some miracle breakthrough which allows them to either skip or simulataniously process multiple steps and they've somehow come up with a brand new EVF which refreshes at 240Hz even though they don't manufacturer EVFs and nobody that does makes one of that spec... even if we're _that_ charitable to Canon, it's still not possible to eliminate lag in a mirrorless camera. Not lag that most people between 12 and 50 can perceive. There are simply too many parts which have to sync up, too much processing, and physically too far for the initial converted light signal to travel, to actually eliminate lag. At best—_at best_—they might be able to get the lag down to match the 1D X mk III. Beyond that, _physics simply does not allow much improvement_ and the sheer nature of using an EVF and the camera having top process and display that video feed automatically enforces an absolute bare minimum of lag.


Now let's add in auto ISO or WB evalutation, the aperture stopping down, tracking focus adjustments...


Their marketing may claim otherwise, but *you can't cheat physics*.


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## aceflibble (Aug 16, 2021)

mpmark said:


> Until you try to lock focus in the corners of the frames lol


There's no actual physical reason why an SLR couldn't have the same focus point coverage and sensitivity that mirrorless does. It's just a bit harder, more expensive, and all-round more effort to produce. _Physically_ it's possible; manufacturers just couldn't be bothered to do it. (See also: IBIS, f/11 primes, f/2 zooms, etc.)


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## privatebydesign (Aug 16, 2021)

aceflibble said:


> There's no actual physical reason why an SLR couldn't have the same focus point coverage and sensitivity that mirrorless does. It's just a bit harder, more expensive, and all-round more effort to produce. _Physically_ it's possible; manufacturers just couldn't be bothered to do it. (See also: IBIS, f/11 primes, f/2 zooms, etc.)


Do you have anything to actually back that up, because Nikon and Canon spent millions of dollars trying to do that and couldn’t.


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## Ozarker (Aug 16, 2021)

entoman said:


> With an articulated screen you have to switch your eyes back and forth between the screen on the left and the subject straight ahead, which is far from ideal.


No you don't. Instead of flipping it out to the left, you simply leave it flat on the back of the camera.


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## Ozarker (Aug 16, 2021)

bergstrom said:


> Why can't camera companies advertise their camera with all the problems that you're paying for.


Because it is always better to have a positive attitude rather than sounding like a grouch.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> No camera drains battery in sleep mode.


If you have a Canon DSLR with a transmissive LCD (7D, 5DIII, 70D or newer), try an experiment: look through the VF with the camera in sleep mode, or even powered off. Then, remove the battery and look through the VF again. (Spoiler: there’s a difference, and the only reason there would be a difference is if power is being drawn from the battery even in sleep mode or with the power switch set to off.)


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2021)

aceflibble said:


> There's no actual physical reason why an SLR couldn't have the same focus point coverage and sensitivity that mirrorless does. It's just a bit harder, more expensive, and all-round more effort to produce. _Physically_ it's possible; manufacturers just couldn't be bothered to do it. (See also: IBIS, f/11 primes, f/2 zooms, etc.)


According to Canon (one of their 1-series white papers), it’s not possible. Of course, you may know more than a company that’s been designing and building cameras for nearly 90 years.


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## Chig (Aug 16, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
> I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


What makes you think the R1 will be high mp ? The R1 is going to be aimed at Pro sports shooters just like the 1DXiii and they have no need for very high resolution just high speed , dependability and efficient workflow.
Canon have stated that the R3 is not their replacement for the 1DXiii so the R1 probably is.
There's a rumoured high mp R5 variant which seems much more likely


----------



## sanj (Aug 16, 2021)

exige24 said:


> What a meh camera.


Noo sir. It is awesome. Although not for me.


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## masterpix (Aug 16, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


No mention of GPS, somewhere the eye-focus is not mentioned anymore (although those who do have the camera talk about it), and no mnetion of how fast the AF tracking is (especially for fast moving objects like little birds).


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## navastronia (Aug 16, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Because it is always better to have a positive attitude rather than sounding like a grouch.


 Yeah, plus, like . . . You can't advertise something by describing all its problems.


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## navastronia (Aug 16, 2021)

Last week, I shot an outdoor theatre performance on an RP, with 200mm and 85mm primes, and lemme tell you . . . I have never worked harder, and I have never been more irritated to not have a 100-400 or 70-200 zoom + a good DSLR with which to capture the action --- especially having no lag, a la an OVF.

The RP was incredibly slow and hard to use, and in that moment, I would have given my left nut for a professional camera and a great zoom. I still got enough good shots that my client was happy, but I was undeniably stressed while doing it.


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 16, 2021)

bergstrom said:


> Why can't camera companies advertise their camera with all the problems that you're paying for.


Just need to read the advanced user guide carefully... about 900 pages for the R5. Also includes features of the camera as well


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## Sporgon (Aug 16, 2021)

mpmark said:


> Until you try to lock focus in the corners of the frames lol


For myself and no doubt many others that is an overwhelming advantage of mirrorless and one of the reasons I now use one.


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## Hector1970 (Aug 16, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Person standing there with the ball in the palm of their hand, they begin to toss the ball. You press the shutter. The ball is already out of the frame because of the lag time. With a DSLR, you press the shutter and the ball is still in the frame. I don't know why, but that's the way it is. I suspect it is because the image you see in the viewfinder lags behind the real world action.


Interesting, I didn’t realise you’d feel the lag so easily .


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## Rzrsharp (Aug 16, 2021)

when R 3 released, R5 right now has perfect EVF will be f-ed as slow as an old snail.
when R 1 released, R3 will join the R5. 
This is the evolution.


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## gbc (Aug 16, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


I have definitely noticed the battery life shortcomings of the R5. Whenever I used to read about the battery life on the 5D or the original R, I couldn't understand why the reviewers or even Canon's stated battery life was so far below what I was getting. I could shoot all day with one battery, over a 1000 frames no problem. Now, I shoot for an hour and the battery is already half drained. It's definitely the worst battery life of any Canon I've owned, and this is the 6th DSLR I've had that used this kind of battery.


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## kaihp (Aug 16, 2021)

aceflibble said:


> It's not physically possible for a mirrorless system to actually fully eliminate lag. Even SLRs can't fully, 100% eliminate lag, and they have a much faster and simpler pipeline to work with.



It's not physically possible to make a audio transmitter system which fully eliminate lag either. TV streamer are notorious for this.

But if you are down below a certain limit, there is not human discernable difference (around 20msec latency as I recall) And that's what we should be looking at: When is it "good enough" that we cannot perceive the lag.


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## gzroxas (Aug 16, 2021)

Very excited about the R3 and about what Canon can bring to the table!
The R5 and R6 are amazing and I’m so glad I stuck with the brand 

I saw many comments regarding battery life on the new cameras, so I have a tip: if you are doing work which does not require extremely low latency (see landscape, street or “normal” portraiture) I highly suggest using the Camera’s LCD and the electronic shutter. A month ago I shot most of an event using only the LCD and 20fps burst and one LP-E6NH battery lasted me for over 4000+ shots
Hope it helps!


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## AlanF (Aug 16, 2021)

gbc said:


> I have definitely noticed the battery life shortcomings of the R5. Whenever I used to read about the battery life on the 5D or the original R, I couldn't understand why the reviewers or even Canon's stated battery life was so far below what I was getting. I could shoot all day with one battery, over a 1000 frames no problem. Now, I shoot for an hour and the battery is already half drained. It's definitely the worst battery life of any Canon I've owned, and this is the 6th DSLR I've had that used this kind of battery.


An hour's shooting in electronic shutter is 72,000 shots - that's nothing to complain about. You are doing much better than most here who only get a 1000 or so https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...birders-and-other-telephoto-lens-users.40187/


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## AlanF (Aug 16, 2021)

Imaging-resource.com measures shutter lag. For what it's worth, here are screenshots for the 1DXII, R (they haven't done the R5), Sony A9 and A7RIV. There's not much to choose between the two Canons, or with the Sony between the stacked low density sensor of the A9 and the 62 Mpx RIV. But, this is for the delay when you press the shutter and not for what you see in the evf after real time.


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## Ian K (Aug 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> But, the R5 doesn’t drain the battery in sleep mode.


I’m afraid it does. Nowhere near that when it’s on. But the R5 does have drain when asleep and even when it’s turned off.

Turn the camera off and look at the top screen, you will see that the current mode still shows (Av, Tv, M etc). Power is required to make that happen.

The manual even says that if you are leaving the camera off for an extended period you should remove the battery. I know that during lockdown by R5 flattened it’s battery just sitting turned off.

Try it yourself. Note the battery %, and turn the camera off for a few weeks.


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## Skyscraperfan (Aug 16, 2021)

Ian K said:


> Turn the camera off and look at the top screen, you will see that the current mode still shows (Av, Tv, M etc). Power is required to make that happen.


If they used E-Ink instead of LCDs, no power would be needed. E-Ink only needs power if the display changes. I have an E-Ink thermometre from Xiaomi and even without the battery, the temperature still shows. It just does not change anymore. So E-Ink would be perfect for settings that are not constantly changing. At the same time it has a much higher contrast than LCD.


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## Ian K (Aug 16, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> If they used E-Ink instead of LCDs, no power would be needed. E-Ink only needs power if the display changes. I have an E-Ink thermometre from Xiaomi and even without the battery, the temperature still shows. It just does not change anymore. So E-Ink would be perfect for settings that are not constantly changing. At the same time it has a much higher contrast than LCD.


But they don’t. They could just turn the display off, I’ve no idea why they don’t. They’ve done it since the R.


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## Ian K (Aug 16, 2021)

I’ve also noticed that if you turn off the R5, then attach the RF 35 f/1.8 the lens focus mechanism twitches slightly. Indicating power usage even when turned off.


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## AlanF (Aug 16, 2021)

Ian K said:


> I’m afraid it does. Nowhere near that when it’s on. But the R5 does have drain when asleep and even when it’s turned off.
> 
> Turn the camera off and look at the top screen, you will see that the current mode still shows (Av, Tv, M etc). Power is required to make that happen.
> 
> ...


You have taken this out of context without reference to the lead up. The point we were talking about was whether to have the camera in sleep mode or turned off when comparing the merits of Nikon having the on/off switch around the shutter button and Canon on the other side. Nikon's advantage is that you can leave the camera turned off and turn it on more quickly than the Canon. I leave the R5 in sleep mode during a shoot so having the on/off on the other side doesn't slow me down. Codebunny then implied the sleep mode would drain the battery. My response was to that. You can leave the camera in sleep mode and there is little drain over a shoot but of course it will run down over an extended period.


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## john1970 (Aug 16, 2021)

Ian K said:


> I’m afraid it does. Nowhere near that when it’s on. But the R5 does have drain when asleep and even when it’s turned off.
> 
> Turn the camera off and look at the top screen, you will see that the current mode still shows (Av, Tv, M etc). Power is required to make that happen.
> 
> ...


You are definitely correct. I accidentally left a pair of charged batteries in my R5 vertical grip for several weeks with the camera turned off (likely a couple of months) and when I went to use the camera both batteries were fully discharged! Wow! Normally, I remove batteries from the camera, but in this case I forgot.


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## rbielefeld (Aug 16, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


I have been shooting two R5s since they came out. I shoot a lot of birds in flight including falcons and swallows and I have found the lag to be inconsequential when in ES. Lag is also not an issue for me when shooting 12fps in MS, but it does creep in when shooting slower fps in MS for me. As far as black out goes, there is none that I can see. Overall, a very effective tool for the fast action I am shooting.


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## Deleted member 389378 (Aug 16, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> I know a birder who recently upgraded to R5(sold his 1Dx for R5) and he hasn't complained of lag, only thing he complained was weak battery life.


After a little more use s/he will have another complaint: the r5 often focuses on background, rather than birds, in a forest/jungle. https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/problems-with-af-on-birds-r5.39490/


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## snappy604 (Aug 16, 2021)

dcm said:


> On the R6, I close the LCD and run display performance in power saving mode. I may not be as demanding as others, but I find I can do just about everything I want through the EVF. This saves the battery and the camera never has to switch displays. I can go all day on a single battery with ~500 shots. I carry a spare but haven't changed yet during a shoot unless I started with a partial charge.
> 
> Closing the LCD saves the delay switching from the LCD to the EVF - it is always in EVF mode. This means just about anything I touch will turn the EVF on immediately - no delay. I can toggle the multicontroller with my thumb, tap the DOF preview button with my ring finger, tap the M-Fn button with my index finger, etc. and the EVF turns on immediately and is fully functional when it reaches my eye.
> 
> If I don't do anything, it's about 2 seconds from the time I start lifting the camera, less than a second after my eye reaches the EVF.


Did similar, but really find the non eco mode better.. the slight lag bugs me in Eco.

However, if you are not aware.. there is an option to turn off the back LCD with the INFO button vs closing it. This is better for me as I can with a single finger cycle the info to turn it on again quickly vs opening the LCD..


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## snappy604 (Aug 16, 2021)

bhacker said:


> After a little more use s/he will have another complaint: the r5 often focuses on background, rather than birds, in a forest/jungle. https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/problems-with-af-on-birds-r5.39490/


I find same.. busy backgrounds distract/ fool the AI currently. But that is to be expected for now, even predators in nature get confused by it.. think that's why many animals rest in busy backgrounds..safety.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> You have taken this out of context without reference to the lead up. The point we were talking about was whether to have the camera in sleep mode or turned off when comparing the merits of Nikon having the on/off switch around the shutter button and Canon on the other side. Nikon's advantage is that you can leave the camera turned off and turn it on more quickly than the Canon. I leave the R5 in sleep mode during a shoot so having the on/off on the other side doesn't slow me down. Codebunny then implied the sleep mode would drain the battery. My response was to that. You can leave the camera in sleep mode and there is little drain over a shoot but of course it will run down over an extended period.



I did not imply sleep mode would drain the battery. Sleep mode works about the same regardless of the brand, but having the power button near/on the shutter brings the camera to ready quicker than wake from sleep on any DSLR, if not quicker, it is certainly more deliberate.


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## AlanF (Aug 16, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I did not imply sleep mode would drain the battery. Sleep mode works about the same regardless of the brand, but having the power button near/on the shutter brings the camera to ready quicker than wake from sleep on any DSLR, if not quicker, it is certainly more deliberate.


OK, it wasn't clear.


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## AEWest (Aug 16, 2021)

Chig said:


> What makes you think the R1 will be high mp ? The R1 is going to be aimed at Pro sports shooters just like the 1DXiii and they have no need for very high resolution just high speed , dependability and efficient workflow.
> Canon have stated that the R3 is not their replacement for the 1DXiii so the R1 probably is.
> There's a rumoured high mp R5 variant which seems much more likely


Highly unlikely. Why have two pro body low mp bodies? There would not be enough difference in market segmentation between the two - they would be competing against each other. 

This would leave the Nikon Z9 as the only high mp pro body camera. Doesn’t sound like a winning strategy.


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## R1-7D (Aug 16, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> I have been shooting two R5s since they came out. I shoot a lot of birds in flight including falcons and swallows and I have found the lag to be inconsequential when in ES. Lag is also not an issue for me when shooting 12fps in MS, but it does creep in when shooting slower fps in MS for me. As far as black out goes, there is none that I can see. Overall, a very effective tool for the fast action I am shooting.



Terrific set of images, Ron!

This has been my experience with the R5, as well. In H+ mechanical and ES, I have had no issues whatsoever tracking and keeping up with birds, even when they’re flying against busy backgrounds and strong backlighting.

I am sure the R3 will be better. However, the R5 still performs extremely well!


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## Chaitanya (Aug 16, 2021)

bhacker said:


> After a little more use s/he will have another complaint: the r5 often focuses on background, rather than birds, in a forest/jungle. https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/problems-with-af-on-birds-r5.39490/


Most of birders here rarely shoot in jungle/forest habitat(very few people have know how and patience for this habitat), its mostly wetlands or open grasslands where birders spend their time.




JoeDavid said:


> He needs to add the vertical grip for 2x batteries. What bugs me about the grip is the cost. The Canon grip for the R cost $350 USD but includes the USB-C port *and *the Canon “blessed” USB charger and cable. The R5 grip also lists for $350 but the USB-C port and associated circuitry is already in place on the R5 body so no charging port on the grip and no USB charger but still the same high price…


He has ordered the grip but like everything else it's on backorder(delivery time given is minimum of 30 days by dealer).


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## AlanF (Aug 16, 2021)

bhacker said:


> After a little more use s/he will have another complaint: the r5 often focuses on background, rather than birds, in a forest/jungle. https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/problems-with-af-on-birds-r5.39490/


Read the last post in that thread. If you learn how to use the R5 and toggle back button focussing between centre point and full tracking, the problems are not that troubling. By the way, have you used the R5 and found that problem?



AlanF said:


> The same is reported to occur even with the the Sony A1 https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1699402
> It is indeed true that DSLRs are programmed to focus on the nearest object whereas mirrorless can get stuck on backgrounds, and there are many complaints about it. So, in these situations, use a DSLR if it troubles you. I have what is probably the best medium weight DSLR gear for AF - Nikon D850 and D500 with the 500mm PF - but I'll take out my R5/100-500mm on just about every occasion because overall I'll get more keepers. I don't have many problems using the R5 to shoot small birds against busy backgrounds, and that is what I do most.


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## JamesG25 (Aug 16, 2021)

AEWest said:


> Highly unlikely. Why have two pro body low mp bodies? There would not be enough difference in market segmentation between the two - they would be competing against each other.
> 
> This would leave the Nikon Z9 as the only high mp pro body camera. Doesn’t sound like a winning strategy.


I think the EOSR3 is not going to be a new series of camera, I think is a one off like the EOS R to test out a pro-body mirrorless, the new sensor , eye controlled auto focus and to buy sometime for next generation of CPU and resolve any remaining heat management issues so that they can move to 2 CF express cards. The R1 will eventually be the only Pro sports body. I think the eventual line up will be R1, R5, R5 high MP variant, R6, R7 (ASPC camera replacing 7D/90D) an RC ( low cost compact full frame camera replacing RP) and an R100 ( entry level ASPC Camera). Basically a 7 camera line up covering all price points from about $500 to $7000.


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## AEWest (Aug 16, 2021)

JamesG25 said:


> I think the EOSR3 is not going to be a new series of camera, I think is a one off like the EOS R to test out a pro-body mirrorless, the new sensor , eye controlled auto focus and to buy sometime for next generation of CPU and resolve any remaining heat management issues so that they can move to 2 CF express cards. The R1 will eventually be the only Pro sports body. I think the eventual line up will be R1, R5, R5 high MP variant, R6, R7 (ASPC camera replacing 7D/90D) an RC ( low cost compact full frame camera replacing RP) and an R100 ( entry level ASPC Camera). Basically a 7 camera line up covering all price points from about $500 to $7000.


I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera. 

And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 16, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera.
> 
> And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.


I agree and have been saying the same. I think Canon will very carefully monitor the sales of the R3 and then R1 to see how they are being used. If the traditional 1 series users do buy into the R1 high mp then the R3 might be a series of one! If, as I think they expect, the current ‘sports shooter’ 1 series buyers happily stick with the comparatively low mp count of the R3 then I’d expect there to be an R3 II.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2021)

JamesG25 said:


> I think the EOSR3 is not going to be a new series of camera, I think is a one off like the EOS R to test out a pro-body mirrorless, the new sensor , eye controlled auto focus and to buy sometime for next generation of CPU and resolve any remaining heat management issues so that they can move to 2 CF express cards. The R1 will eventually be the only Pro sports body. I think the eventual line up will be R1, R5, R5 high MP variant, R6, R7 (ASPC camera replacing 7D/90D) an RC ( low cost compact full frame camera replacing RP) and an R100 ( entry level ASPC Camera). Basically a 7 camera line up covering all price points from about $500 to $7000.


That makes sense, except I remain unconvinced that we'll see an R7. I do think it's very possible that the R3 is a one-off and we'll never see a MkII version. The EOS 3 (film) was the first camera to use the 45-point AF system that then moved to the 1-series (1v film, then all of the 1D and 1Ds bodies, although it was improved with more cross-type points over time).

If the R1 is announced (even as a development announcement) in a year or less, then the R3 may represent a return to the 1D / 1Ds split (undoing Canon's previous merger of the two into the 1D X). Not sure that's going to happen.


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## JamesG25 (Aug 16, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera.
> 
> And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.


We are definitely in for a few interesting years as the big 3 figure out what their mirrorless line up should be and against which models they are really competing and how their lens development roadmap plays into that. One thing that is certain is that we could be in for expensive few years!!


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## djack41 (Aug 16, 2021)

john1970 said:


> I also have the vertical grip for the R5, but battery life relative to my old 1Dx Mk2 is dramatically shorter. I always take a second pair of batteries out with me into the field.


Don't we all? I always carried a spare battery for my 1DX2 or 5D4. What is the big deal?


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## deleteme (Aug 16, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Well, lag time is a very real issue for me. Just because it doesn't affect how you use your camera doesn't mean it doesn't affect others.


Lag time is relative. Even my 10D was fine in this regard. The real pain was point and shoot digicams that took 1-2 seconds to actually fire.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 16, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R3 will be the sports shooter pro camera, and the R1 will be a high mp pro body studio camera to compete with Z9. Can't see the R3 as being a one off interim camera.
> 
> And I don't see Canon not competing against the high mp Nikon Z9.


why would anyone need a high mp pro body for the studio. Studio is the safest and most controlled environment. You don't need a big fast camera for portraits. Sounds like you are talking about a R5S if one would ever come to exist.


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## Kiton (Aug 16, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards...........
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!



I am just taking a stab in the dark here, but there a huge number of news photogs who use apple SD card readers to upload to the phone while working. The 1dX required an adapter card holder using the SD in the CF slot. But the advantage is you can keep shooting or running video with this work flow. Pop the card out, stuff a new card in, work and keep your camera at the ready 100% of the time vs being "off line" while using wifi etc 

I do not know if that had anything to do with Canon's logic. 
Once Apple made the old Eye Fi card redundant by making a cheap SD card reader, everyone I know is set up for this work flow. It works!
Maybe not the sexiest thing on the face of the earth, but very reliable with no camera down time.


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## Mikehit (Aug 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> If the R1 is announced (even as a development announcement) in a year or less, then the R3 may represent a return to the 1D / 1Ds split (undoing Canon's previous merger of the two into the 1D X). Not sure that's going to happen.



I was in a camera shop in Vancouver many years ago when the manager told me (based on discussions with a Canon rep) the rationalisation of the 1D/1Ds/5D differentiation and, lo, it came to pass a few months later. His explanation then was not so much that they had a high/low 1D pixel densities but more that at the pro level they had two different sensor formats running in parallel which not only meant developing different softwares (such as impact on AF systems) but also screwed around with practicalities focal length equivalents. Merging them to a single 1D line simplified this.

As I understand it, the reason they had the two formats was because it is pixel density that gives the reach and at that time, making higher density sensors was so much more expensive so the smaller APS-H enabled them to mitigate production costs to make them affordable. Nowadays sensor production is so much more efficient and has closed that gap.
The outcome IMO is that it is now possible to return to the dual-1D product lines both using 35mm format, much like they had the very successful 5D/5Ds pairing.


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## AEWest (Aug 16, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> why would anyone need a high mp pro body for the studio. Studio is the safest and most controlled environment. You don't need a big fast camera for portraits. Sounds like you are talking about a R5S if one would ever come to exist.


Canon certainly doesn't need two low mp pro body cameras. So unless Canon plans to replace the R3 with an R1, I expect the R1 to be high mp. Canon likely won't use an R5 body to compete with the high mp pro body Nikon Z9.


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## Czardoom (Aug 16, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I agree and have been saying the same. I think Canon will very carefully monitor the sales of the R3 and then R1 to see how they are being used. If the traditional 1 series users do buy into the R1 high mp then the R3 might be a series of one! If, as I think they expect, the current ‘sports shooter’ 1 series buyers happily stick with the comparatively low mp count of the R3 then I’d expect there to be an R3 II.


Sales will be the key - not debate, not what forum users think. Everyone seems to think that Canon must compete with the Z9 ...well, what if those shooters who are in that target market for a Z9 or Canon 1 series camera prefer lower MPs? If those sports/action shooters prefer the lower MP R3, then the R1 might just replace the R3 will similar MP count. And if the target market for a higher MP camera would much rather prefer a body like the R5, then an even higher MP R5 style camera might be what "competes" with the Z9. I don't think Canon will feel the need to compete directly with the Z9 if the sales and market research show that those particular specs (high MP, pro-build) will be poor sellers. On the other hand, of course, if the market says, "yes give me higher MPs in your 1 series camera," then Canon will not ignore that.

For now, all sorts of possibilities are on the table and will be for a few years until sales tell the story of what stays and what goes..


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## degos (Aug 16, 2021)

Mikehit said:


> As I understand it, the reason they had the two formats was because it is pixel density that gives the reach and at that time, making higher density sensors was so much more expensive so the smaller APS-H enabled them to mitigate production costs to make them affordable. Nowadays sensor production is so much more efficient and has closed that gap.



The 1DX and R3 still haven't matched the pixel density of the last APS-H.

The use of smaller sensors was actually because they provided better yields out of wafers. If the number of bad zones was consistent across wafers but randomly distributed on each, they could get more 'all good' APS-H circuits off a wafer than full-frame. And thus they could afford to push the density higher because they were getting more good circuits.


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## degos (Aug 16, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> why would anyone need a high mp pro body for the studio. Studio is the safest and most controlled environment. You don't need a big fast camera for portraits. Sounds like you are talking about a R5S if one would ever come to exist.



"Studio" doesn't just mean literal photo studio. I bought a 1Ds3 years ago from a fashion photographer, classic studio-style shots but done at events like fashion shows. Heavily worn body, banging around being used for hours each day, over a million shots taken. That's a pro body in non-sports use.

The 5D series took much of the market for actual on-tripod studio use but was nowhere near robust enough for that sort of use.


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## Alan B (Aug 16, 2021)

Here's a bit of insight into the battery life on the R3

This photographer(Damir Senčar) who was given an R3 from Canon to use at the Olympics, posted a pic of the shutter count. QUOTE: 16379 photos with one battery on Canon EOS R3


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## Bdbtoys (Aug 16, 2021)

Ian K said:


> I’m afraid it does. Nowhere near that when it’s on. But the R5 does have drain when asleep and even when it’s turned off.
> 
> Turn the camera off and look at the top screen, you will see that the current mode still shows (Av, Tv, M etc). Power is required to make that happen.
> 
> ...



You beat me to the reply. On top of what you already said with the R5, to show it's not really off...

Turn on Bluetooth & WiFi in menu and then turn off the camera. Battery life while on shelf will greatly be reduced (Tip: I always keep in airplane mode when not actively using either).

Or... remove your memory cards while the camera is off and put them back in... watch the LED blink as it is re-initialized.

The 'off' switch on the R5 is essentially a sleep mode... it isn't off unless the battery is removed.


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## rbielefeld (Aug 16, 2021)

R1-7D said:


> Terrific set of images, Ron!
> 
> This has been my experience with the R5, as well. In H+ mechanical and ES, I have had no issues whatsoever tracking and keeping up with birds, even when they’re flying against busy backgrounds and strong backlighting.
> 
> I am sure the R3 will be better. However, the R5 still performs extremely well!


Love the Yellow-headed blackbird for sure! Yep, the R5 is very capable for even the fastest action. Agree, the R3 will be better, but then it should be given the tech advances and only being 24mp. I am interested to see how images from the two camera compare.


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## aceflibble (Aug 16, 2021)

kaihp said:


> But if you are down below a certain limit, there is not human discernable difference (around 20msec latency as I recall) And that's what we should be looking at: When is it "good enough" that we cannot perceive the lag.



The ballpark varies depending on a person's age (though doesn't vary _much_ between early teens and middle age) and, of course, what they're used to and small variations in every person's eyes and brain. A small minority of people genuinely can't spot or feel 50ms-ish of delay, for instance. The vast majority of people can spot down to about 16ms. Some people can spot down to around 8ms, though testing that is highly debated and 10ms is a commonly-agreed compromise. People used to seeing displays and video content at high refresh rates and frame rates are more tuned to spotting this kind of lag than someone who never looks at a screen; if you've spent half your life picking apart frames at 60Hz (16ms) and now you've spent the last few years picking out frames at 120Hz (8ms) or more, you're going to be able to spot when a device is operating 50ms behind. So your tech bros, your gamers, and your professionals will, _mostly_ (of course there will always be exceptions, and no, naming one person does not disprove or prove anything) see and/or feel even the minimum lag that a mirrorless system is capable of.
So yes, if a camera can be made that brings lag down right to the absolute bare physical minimum time it takes for light to simply travel, be converted and the shuter to go off, then yeah, that kind of time should be "good enough" for us to not perceive lag unless we were specifically looking for it. But, realistically, there are no displays (for viewfinders or otherwise) that can meet that speed, no CPUs that can meet it, and simply too much going on inside a camera for that kind of speed to be reached. Even then, it still would technically not be eliminating lag.

I'm not saying we can't get a camera to be fast enough for practical use, just that the phrase "eliminate lag" is making an extremely inaccurate claim.



AlanF said:


> Imaging-resource.com measures shutter lag.



And they do so terribly inaccurately, as you'll find if you search around as many people have torn down their process. They don't include _any_ of the wider system lag, either mechanical and software, let alone display lag.
For an example of how inaccurate their speeds are, go check Canon's own literature on the 1D X and R's lag; _even Canon's own marketing doesn't claim speeds that fast_.



Alan B said:


> Here's a bit of insight into the battery life on the R3
> 
> This photographer(Damir Senčar) who was given an R3 from Canon to use at the Olympics, posted a pic of the shutter count. QUOTE: 16379 photos with one battery on Canon EOS R3



Number of shots taken is an erroneous, disingenuous, and highly unrealistic way of measuring battery life. If you put one of these 20fps or 30fps cameras on a steady surface, set it to medium jpg with a gigantic card, and just hold down the shutter, you can ''shoot'' tens of thousands of images in just 10-15 minutes. The battery will still be at 80% and that makes the camera sound like it'll last forever. A sports pro shooting 16k in one go is not remarkable in the slightest. If it's shooting at a locked 30fps he could've done that in just over 9 minutes.
This is why the CIPA ratings are always much lower. Though they still count the number of shots taken, which isn't actually helpful, at least they factor in leaving the camera to idle, reviewing images, navigating menus, etc.

A more helpful measurement of battery life would be the actual _hours_ the camera lasts turned on, without going to sleep or turning off key functions. I don't care if a camera can shoot a billion photos in one go at a high burst rate; I care if I have to keep turning the camera fully off for it to last until the next event. A 1D or 7D can be turned on in the morning and not turn off, or even go to sleep, for the entire day, and only the 7D will need its battery changing. The R and R5, for me so far, need the battery changing at least every hour and a half, no matter whether I've taken 200 shots or 2000.

I'm not saying the R3 will have a poor battery per se, just that quoting a large number of shots, for any camera, is not helpful.


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## AJ (Aug 16, 2021)

This may be a dumb noob question. But here it goes.
Does the lag affect AF tracking, or does it affect the viewfinder only? In other words, does the lag result from processing the input from the sensor, before it does AF calculations and EVF display? Or is the lag a result of slow EVF response?


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## Bob Howland (Aug 17, 2021)

I don't think 45MP is especially high resolution. Now 90MP would probably get people's attention. Recall that Keith Cooper uses a 5Ds and, after testing an R5, decided to keep using it. I believe he is typical of people who crave extremely high resolution cameras. When the 5D2 was introduced, 15 months after the 1Ds3, my local camera store had two 1Ds3 bodies in stock. In the year following, they sold a bunch of 5D2 bodies but couldn't sell either 1Ds3 body. I think they finally sold those bodies on ebay.


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## arbitrage (Aug 17, 2021)

What on earth is this article even talking about?
Sometimes I think people that write these things really have never used an R5/6. For one there is no blackout in ES or in 12FPS MS/EFCS. Secondly, what does lag refer to? There are a number of different lags in the R5 and some that exist in all cameras with an EVF. In fact there is shutter lag in all cameras, even DSLRs.

Does lag refer to the slideshow jumpiness on R5/R6 when letting off the shutter in ES? Does lag refer to the wakeup time of the EVF from sleep or even when not in sleep? Does lag refer to the EVF lag present due to the time it takes to bring in the RAW data and send an image to the EVF? Or does lag refer to the shutter lag I mentioned earlier?

When I read this this morning and started reading through this thread the discussion gravitated towards discussing EVF wakeup time. Somehow I don't think that was what the article was referring to...but who knows??

What the R3's stacked sensor is most likely going to fix is slideshow jumpiness when letting off the shutter in ES and the stutter in 12FPS MS/EFCS. It also may decrease the lag in processing and displaying the image in the EVF. It isn't going to eliminate blackout because there is no blackout to eliminate (I guess maybe in the slower FPS MS modes). Canon should do something about the wakeup time though.

I owned the R5 for 6 months. I've been shooting the A1 since I sold it. This past Saturday I shot the R5 for an entire day just to reacquaint myself with the pros and cons. Wakeup lag was annoying (A1 can turn off sleep mode...EVF still goes off after 2s but EVF wakes instantly with the sensor without any pushing buttons ahead of raising it to your eye). Grabbing backgrounds with AF was annoying. The stutter when letting off the shutter during a burst was costing me shots. Not being able to change the ES FPS was annoying. Seeing leaning structures, trees, grass in my backgrounds was annoying. All in all, the R3 has lots of things to improve on over the R5/6 if it wants to compete with the A1. I'm certain it will fix most, if not all, of these things with the stacked sensor. And I'm sure the R1 will fix the MP deficit.

On the positive the R5 on Saturday showed me that the BEAF is still top of the class and the in focus hit rate (when the AF was working and not jumping to the background) was excellent.


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## nemophoto (Aug 17, 2021)

I, personally, want a slight bit of blackout in the viewfinder. It give me a reinforced sense of what I shot. On my R5, the zero blackout at 20 FPS is a bit concerting. What I don't like is the stuttering of the viewfinder, which is better on the R5 than the R. The more it can mimic an SLR/DSLR, the better, in my view.


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## jam05 (Aug 17, 2021)

Interestingly there's no posting of any video from the camera. Only still images and burst mode, with scrubbed and edited EXIF files. There will be a few surprises and corrections in a month or so. Same as there was with the R5 last year.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 17, 2021)

AJ said:


> This may be a dumb noob question. But here it goes.
> Does the lag affect AF tracking, or does it affect the viewfinder only? In other words, does the lag result from processing the input from the sensor, before it does AF calculations and EVF display? Or is the lag a result of slow EVF response?


EVF. You take a photo and it takes time to show up on the EVF. It's an issue if every bit of time counts when getting the next shot like when shooting sports.


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## maulanawale (Aug 17, 2021)

I'm so used to EVF lag now that I'm afraid the day I get a camera with little to no lag, I'll pan too hard when doing BIF. Just like when you think there's more milk left in the carton and knock the sh*t out of the fridge shelf above it


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## AlanF (Aug 17, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> What on earth is this article even talking about?
> Sometimes I think people that write these things really have never used an R5/6. For one there is no blackout in ES or in 12FPS MS/EFCS. Secondly, what does lag refer to? There are a number of different lags in the R5 and some that exist in all cameras with an EVF. In fact there is shutter lag in all cameras, even DSLRs.
> 
> Does lag refer to the slideshow jumpiness on R5/R6 when letting off the shutter in ES? Does lag refer to the wakeup time of the EVF from sleep or even when not in sleep? Does lag refer to the EVF lag present due to the time it takes to bring in the RAW data and send an image to the EVF? Or does lag refer to the shutter lag I mentioned earlier?
> ...


For those who don't know because he rarely posts here nowadays, arbitrage is, among other birding activities, one of the very top BIF guys, specialising in extreme difficult shots, who shoots across Sony (mainly now), Canon and Nikon, and gives unbiased comments. For us less demanding in our speed requirements, the niggles are less significant and the unparalleled eyeAF the transformational feature of the R5. And, as he writes, we don't have to worry about blackout and lag.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 17, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> How would the A1 work then as the CFe Type A cards only have one PCIe lane?



The A1 will get faster CF Express Type A cards in the future as we move on to new revisions. A 8 lane PCIe gen 4 slot has more bandwidth than a gen 1 16x slot. Eventually I expect it’ll be a dual SD Express and CF Express A slot since they both use the same internal bus so you just need something that lets the SD side also read some USB 2 interface for the UHS-1 pins.


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## perfpix (Aug 17, 2021)

I have taken 250,000+ shots on rented R5s & R6s. 95% of these shots are in single shot mode timing the photo in 1st curtain electronic shutter mode. Never noticed any lag after getting used to the timing after the first day or 2 of shooting. My biggest complaints are banding and not enough feedback when taking a photo (i.e. nothing telling me that the photo was taken accept an almost in-perceivable flicker in the viewfinder) when using fully electronic shutter. Also much prefer to built in grip on 1DXs. I will be an R3 buyer for sure as I expect/hope that my 2 complaints will be address and it will have a build in grip. The examples below were all taken in single shot mode with electronic 1st curtain shutter. Lag/Timing is not a problem.


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## perfpix (Aug 17, 2021)

amfoto1 said:


> I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
> I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
> It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!


The "if you can afford an R3, 1DX3 (insert name here)" camera argument you can afford crazy high priced cards is just wrong. As a pro I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend. I don't shoot video, so SD cards are a stellar value. I would one thousand percent rather spend $4000-$5000 on a new body or lens than 20 CFExpress cards, or save the money and take my family on a great vacation! This is one of the main reasons I never upgraded from a 1DX2 to a 1DX3. Didn't want to spend thousands on memory cards.


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## AlanF (Aug 17, 2021)

perfpix said:


> The "if you can afford an R3, 1DX3 (insert name here)" camera argument you can afford crazy high priced cards is just wrong. As a pro I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend. I don't shoot video, so SD cards are a stellar value. I would one thousand percent rather spend $4000-$5000 on a new body or lens than 20 CFExpress cards, or save the money and take my family on a great vacation! This is one of the main reasons I never upgraded from a 1DX2 to a 1DX3. Didn't want to spend thousands on memory cards.


I got on perfectly well as a stills shooter using just the SD slot in the R5, and bought a CFExpress only because there was a very cheap deal. Even though I can afford them, I resent having to buy expensive CFExpress cards when I don't need them. In your case, the cost ism extortionate.


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## Bahrd (Aug 17, 2021)

degos said:


> The 1DX and R3 still haven't matched the pixel density of the last APS-H.
> 
> The use of smaller sensors was actually because they provided better yields out of wafers. If the number of bad zones was consistent across wafers but randomly distributed on each, they could get more 'all good' APS-H circuits off a wafer than full-frame. And thus they could afford to push the density higher because they were getting more good circuits.


Also (from Wikipedia): 


> "_Canon selected the intermediate APS-H size, *since it was at the time the largest that could be patterned with a single mask*, helping to control production costs and manage yields.[18] Newer photolithography equipment now allows single-pass exposures for full-frame sensors, although other size-related production constraints remain much the same._"


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## SHAMwow (Aug 17, 2021)

AlanF said:


> I got on perfectly well as a stills shooter using just the SD slot in the R5, and bought a CFExpress only because there was a very cheap deal. Even though I can afford them, I resent having to buy expensive CFExpress cards when I don't need them. In your case, the cost ism extortionate.


Same. I bought two CF Express cards and I don't ever anticipate buying more while I own my R5. Hated buying them. The value is just insanely terrible regardless of their speed. Matching CFExpress would have pushed me out of the R5.


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## GoldWing (Aug 17, 2021)

sanj said:


> I am glad this settles the 'Vari angle, touch screen' not belonging to pro cameras.


They will break in abundance


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## privatebydesign (Aug 17, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> They will break in abundance


That is simply ridiculous. If you are that clumsy and stupid just reverse the screen one time and tape it to the body so it can’t hinge out. Problem solved.

Having said that looking through eBay and Craigslist at the overwhelming number of cameras with broken swivel screens is a good data point. /sarcasm.

Hint: there are very few and there are a lot more Rebels out there than 1 series and the average person is a lot less concerned with their $500 camera than a pro is with their livelihood.


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## Sporgon (Aug 17, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> They will break in abundance


I hope that Canon have designed the electronics in such a way as to allow the rest of the camera to continue to function normally should the screen get snapped off. Which one of mine almost certainly will. Yes, I’m clumsy  I managed to snap the pop up flash off on a D200


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That is simply ridiculous. If you are that clumsy and stupid just reverse the screen one time and tape it to the body so it can’t hinge out. Problem solved.


Goldwing is probably just overly sensitive to having things that stick out to the side getting broken off. Maybe it happens all the time to him.


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## SNJ Ops (Aug 17, 2021)

nemophoto said:


> I, personally, want a slight bit of blackout in the viewfinder. It give me a reinforced sense of what I shot. On my R5, the zero blackout at 20 FPS is a bit concerting. What I don't like is the stuttering of the viewfinder, which is better on the R5 than the R. The more it can mimic an SLR/DSLR, the better, in my view.


What’s happening is that you are being shown a slideshow of previous shots which was Canon’s way of having “blackout free shooting” To truly eliminate this an EVF with a faster refresh rate is what’s needed.
One of the reasons why the A1 costs so much more than the R5 as its EVF has a fast mode the ups the refresh rate for fast action tracking.


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## raptor3x (Aug 17, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> What on earth is this article even talking about?
> Sometimes I think people that write these things really have never used an R5/6. For one there is no blackout in ES or in 12FPS MS/EFCS. Secondly, what does lag refer to? There are a number of different lags in the R5 and some that exist in all cameras with an EVF. In fact there is shutter lag in all cameras, even DSLRs.



In the context of mirrorless bodies, blackout doesn't just mean an actual black frame as would be the equivalent from a DSLR. Blackout means any time that the EVF stops updating. The R5/R6 don't display any black frames during burst shooting, but they do revert to only displaying the previously captured frame rather than a live feed from the sensor. If anything, inserting black frames actually helps with tracking as it minimizes the slideshow effect you otherwise get. This is where cameras like the A9/A1/X-T3/X-T4 have a huge advantage for sports shooting as they are able to keep updating the EVF with a liveview feed at 60fps even during a burst.


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## unfocused (Aug 17, 2021)

perfpix said:


> ...I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend....


Wow! That's an impressive burn rate. At 3,000 images per card, that's 60,000 images a weekend, or a shutter replacement every 8 months or so.


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## perfpix (Aug 17, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Wow! That's an impressive burn rate. At 3,000 images per card, that's 60,000 images a weekend, or a shutter replacement every 8 months or so.


Close, I've taken 50,000 images in a weekend. However some weekends I only shoot 1000 depending at the event, and some weekends I don't shoot at all. The key is that for those weekends that I shoot a ton I need 20 cards, so owning less than 20 cards is not doable (I actually own about 50 CF cards and 20 SD cards). Also, I load onto a laptop or server multiple times a day so the need the 20 cards is for organization not capacity. Usually I shoot for myself but when I shoot for others often the requirement is to show up with 20 cards for the same reason.

I've replaced my share of shutters and mirror boxes, however, on 1DXs I can usually get twice the rated clicks out of a shutter. Usually 800,000 clicks or more on a 1DX2. Mirror boxes usually go after 1.2 to 1.5 million clicks. I average 500,000 clicks/year but I have other shooters who use my gear, including my daughter who put another 1/2 million clicks on various bodies per year.

John


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 17, 2021)

perfpix said:


> Close, I've taken 50,000 images in a weekend. However some weekends I only shoot 1000 depending at the event, and some weekends I don't shoot at all. The key is that for those weekends that I shoot a ton I need 20 cards, so owning less than 20 cards is not doable (I actually own about 50 CF cards and 20 SD cards). Also, I load onto a laptop or server multiple times a day so the need the 20 cards is for organization not capacity. Usually I shoot for myself but when I shoot for others often the requirement is to show up with 20 cards for the same reason.
> 
> I've replaced my share of shutters and mirror boxes, however, on 1DXs I can usually get twice the rated clicks out of a shutter. Usually 800,000 clicks or more on a 1DX2. Mirror boxes usually go after 1.2 to 1.5 million clicks. I average 500,000 clicks/year but I have other shooters who use my gear, including my daughter who put another 1/2 million clicks on various bodies per year.
> 
> John


how do you have time to go through all those photos.


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## perfpix (Aug 17, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> how do you have time to go through all those photos.


I usually don't. They either go straight online (lately due to Covid) or straight to a bunch of laptops for onsite viewing and ordering (pre-covid). It is therefore paramount to get it right in the camera as the photos are selected and purchased straight from the camera. 98% of my shooting is indoors under controlled lighting often easy to set exposure & white balance but sometimes not constant as in a stage not evenly lit. Shooting as close to full frame as possible is another skill that sells photos. The crop feature in the R5/R6 is great for getting close crops when needed (something Nikon has had in their DSLR's for more than a decade, but not Canon). Note that selected photos (selected by hitting the lock button on my camera body to identify the image) also are displayed on numerous 50" monitors throughout the venue. These are also straight out of the camera Here are some examples of my work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums (the dance and gymnastics are my high volume events where I shoot 10,000+ images/day).


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## SteveC (Aug 17, 2021)

perfpix said:


> Close, I've taken 50,000 images in a weekend. However some weekends I only shoot 1000 depending at the event, and some weekends I don't shoot at all. The key is that for those weekends that I shoot a ton I need 20 cards, so owning less than 20 cards is not doable (I actually own about 50 CF cards and 20 SD cards). Also, I load onto a laptop or server multiple times a day so the need the 20 cards is for organization not capacity. Usually I shoot for myself but when I shoot for others often the requirement is to show up with 20 cards for the same reason.
> 
> I've replaced my share of shutters and mirror boxes, however, on 1DXs I can usually get twice the rated clicks out of a shutter. Usually 800,000 clicks or more on a 1DX2. Mirror boxes usually go after 1.2 to 1.5 million clicks. I average 500,000 clicks/year but I have other shooters who use my gear, including my daughter who put another 1/2 million clicks on various bodies per year.
> 
> John



50,000 images in a weekend...two days is 172,800 seconds, so you're basically taking an image, on average every three and a half seconds, 24 hours a day. Probably closer to one every two seconds by the time you figure you're getting sleep in there somewhere.


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## Chig (Aug 17, 2021)

perfpix said:


> I usually don't. They either go straight online (lately due to Covid) or straight to a bunch of laptops for onsite viewing and ordering (pre-covid). It is therefore paramount to get it right in the camera as the photos are selected and purchased straight from the camera. 98% of my shooting is indoors under controlled lighting often easy to set exposure & white balance but sometimes not constant as in a stage not evenly lit. Shooting as close to full frame as possible is another skill that sells photos. The crop feature in the R5/R6 is great for getting close crops when needed (something Nikon has had in their DSLR's for more than a decade, but not Canon). Note that selected photos (selected by hitting the lock button on my camera body to identify the image) also are displayed on numerous 50" monitors throughout the venue. These are also straight out of the camera Here are some examples of my work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums (the dance and gymnastics are my high volume events where I shoot 10,000+ images/day).


Great photos John , I can see how the mums & dads would be keen to buy them.

Do you shoot them in jpeg ? If it's straight from the camera jpeg would look better wouldn't it ?

The R3 will probably be ideal for your workflow.


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## tmc784 (Aug 17, 2021)

I am waiting for the R5C.


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 17, 2021)

perfpix said:


> The "if you can afford an R3, 1DX3 (insert name here)" camera argument you can afford crazy high priced cards is just wrong. As a pro I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend. I don't shoot video, so SD cards are a stellar value. I would one thousand percent rather spend $4000-$5000 on a new body or lens than 20 CFExpress cards, or save the money and take my family on a great vacation! This is one of the main reasons I never upgraded from a 1DX2 to a 1DX3. Didn't want to spend thousands on memory cards.


I agree with your sentiment but I am surprised that SD cards could keep up with the type of shots you posted earlier.


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## Chig (Aug 17, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I agree with your sentiment but I am surprised that SD cards could keep up with the type of shots you posted earlier.


John appears to shoot jpeg (that's what the EXIF data says anyway) so no problem using SD cards


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 17, 2021)

Chig said:


> John shoots jpeg so no problem using SD cards


I am not that brave.
I shoot JPEG to an SD card and RAW to CFExpress.
I only use a RAW photo when a JPEG is not good enough.
I plan to do the same with the R3.
If either camera had 2 CFExpress slots then I would shoot RAW + JPEG to both


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## Chig (Aug 17, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I am not that brave.
> I shoot JPEG to an SD card and RAW to CFExpress.
> I only use a RAW photo when a JPEG is not good enough.
> I plan to do the same with the R3.
> If either camera had 2 CFExpress slots then I would shoot RAW + JPEG to both


RAW wouldn't work for his workflow and would look worse unprocessed than jpeg. 
Many working pros exclusively shoot jpeg.


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## David - Sydney (Aug 18, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> The A1 will get faster CF Express Type A cards in the future as we move on to new revisions. A 8 lane PCIe gen 4 slot has more bandwidth than a gen 1 16x slot. Eventually I expect it’ll be a dual SD Express and CF Express A slot since they both use the same internal bus so you just need something that lets the SD side also read some USB 2 interface for the UHS-1 pins.


The A1 is limited to what card/bus it currently has. Future mark 2 etc may be different but only needed if the camera provides internal raw.
UHS-ii spec came out in 2011 and really only available in 2020 from different suppliers. The industry skipped USH-iii from 2018 to our first SD Express card announced for 2022 with the lower bandwidth.
The SD card form factor will probably evolve for future specifications with higher bandwidth only if there is a need and volume. Currently CFe cards fill the bandwidth requirement with heat generation being the only downside. We are yet to see if SD Express will operate at a lower temperature.
CFe A cards will also need new specifications as they are limited to 1 PCIe lane.

What I am saying is that the vhs vs beta standard could be similar for SD Express/CFe B cards. Once a standard is dominate in the market and is good enough for people then the "best" option may not survive. Dual SD Express and CFe A card form factor looks to be the best solution but probably too late to the market.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 18, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> The A1 is limited to what card/bus it currently has. Future mark 2 etc may be different but only needed if the camera provides internal raw.
> UHS-ii spec came out in 2011 and really only available in 2020 from different suppliers. The industry skipped USH-iii from 2018 to our first SD Express card announced for 2022 with the lower bandwidth.
> The SD card form factor will probably evolve for future specifications with higher bandwidth only if there is a need and volume. Currently CFe cards fill the bandwidth requirement with heat generation being the only downside. We are yet to see if SD Express will operate at a lower temperature.
> CFe A cards will also need new specifications as they are limited to 1 PCIe lane.
> ...



You asked how the A1 would work. CF Express A cards work on PCIe and in the future will work on future generations of PCIe. Both SD Express and CF Express type A will be limited by the speed of the current PCIe gen they support. They'll likely produce equal heat with the CF Express card remaining more durable. SD Express will likely end up in consumer cameras like SD cards and CF Express (especially the faster type B) will remain dominate in the professional bodies. As the cards get even faster, they'll get hotter. SD Express may operate at a lower temperature, if they are slower. 

CF Express A cards operate as a lower temperature than type B cards. New processes will increate the speed and/or lower the operating temperature of newer generation CF Express and SD Express cards, but it'll depends on the needs of the camera. If 1440 MB/s writing is enough then there is no need to make faster and hotter cards.

On the computer side there have been many instances of these SSD's now using heat spreaders, cooling fans, and even water-cooling in order to reach the performance of PCIe gen 4. But as alway, after a wee bit of time you get the same performance without a requiring additional cooling.


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## Chig (Aug 18, 2021)

Tronhard said:


> In response to Post #14 by amfoto1 saying CF cards should be standard in all cameras:
> From my _personal _perspective, as a stills-only shooter, I don't want to pay for expensive Express CF cards that I don't actually need. That is one of the things that put me off the R5. I am perfectly happy with my two R6 bodies using SD cards.  The price would need to drop considerably for me to be happy with switching - and one day that will likely happen. By then we may have a quite different body performance as well.
> In a way this issue highlights the developing gap between the needs of the stills shooter and videographer having the same body. Video demands performance from components in the camera that still shooters do not need but have to pay for.


CF Express type B cards aren't all that expensive, here's a 64GB one at B&H for USD $100 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...fe_064g_ancnn_64gb_extreme_pro_cfexpress.html

It's the price of the R5 itself I can't afford , you've bought _two_ R6s and yet can't afford one $100 card 

Maybe you need a 2TB one like this : https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ces_dcfx1_2tb_2tb_cfexpress_power_memory.html
That one _is_ very expensive at USD $1000 but not sure who needs one _that_ big


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## Chig (Aug 18, 2021)

Tronhard said:


> I don't live in the US, and in nz the cheapest Express Cf card comes in at about $650.
> 
> Furthermore, your are comparing apples and oranges when you consider the cost of the CF against the body against my decision to get R6 bodies. I got the two R6 bodies for other reasons, based on the types of images I create and also, and very significantly, the types of output I create. I shoot with different lenses and I don't change them in the field, so I carry a body for each lens. I don't shoot video, so I don't need the higher video performance of the R5, and the R6 at 20MP works well for my purposes. If I wanted an R5, the cost locally would be close to $6,500NZ plus the cost of two CF cards. Quoting B&H values is invalid as those costs are considerably less to local US consumers. It is not valid to try to import them, due to the exchange rate of around $1=US$0.65, plus a 15% GST added on that, the cost of shipping (which is horrendous) and the fact that the North American warranty doesn't apply here.
> 
> ...


I live in New Zealand too and you can get a 64GB card locally for NZD$209 : https://www.rubbermonkey.co.nz/SanDisk-64GB-Extreme-PRO-CFexpress-Card-Type-B?fromCategoryId=2804

Buying two R5s would be a lot of money though.

I would like to get an R5 to replace my 7Dii but the $6500 price is a lot of money for my bird photography hobby.
If I do get one though I'd be happy enough buying the CF Express card


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## Chig (Aug 18, 2021)

Tronhard said:


> As I said, I have different value sets and I don't criticize your, please don't criticize mine.


Heh , I'm not criticising you.
I'm only discussing buying choices and pricing.
I just had a look at some images you've posted on here : very nice ! Do you belong to the FB group Birds Auckland ?
Cheers
Noel


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## photo212 (Aug 18, 2021)

With any digital processing you will have lag. Fact of life. Even the simplest of digital systems will have lag. Let's get the terminology right. It is impossible to eliminate lag for a mirrorless camera. Impossible. You can achieve very tiny amount of lag by clocking your CPU to work small increments of time per cycle. The right terminology is they might be able to reduce the lag to the point most people will not notice it. Personally, I find even that doubtful. They can reduce the lag to the point where many won't care.


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## Chig (Aug 18, 2021)

Tronhard said:


> I have a 7dII as well and still use it. However, for my purposes I must say the animal eye autofocus of the R5 and R6 is a bit of a game changer. I use the R6s with a range of lenses: Canon RF24-105F/4, RF24-240, Rf 100-500, and EF 70-200 f/2.8 IS MkII, all of the EF 70-300 lenses and the Sigma 150-600c and 60-600s lenses. The latter all work perfectly with the adapter.


Nice to know , the R5 & R6 seem to be the best Canons ever for wildlife (and perhaps the best of all cameras as their overall design ergonomics, user interface and build quality is just so great especially compared to Sony) and it'll be interesting to see how the R3 stacks up for wildlife & sports.


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## koenkooi (Aug 18, 2021)

Chig said:


> [..] Maybe you need a 2TB one like this : https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ces_dcfx1_2tb_2tb_cfexpress_power_memory.html
> That one _is_ very expensive at USD $1000 but not sure who needs one _that_ big


On my vacation last week, the laptop refused to power on on day 2, so I had no good way to get pictures of the CFe card. Since it was a family vacation I didn't do muc heavy shooting, but for future trips I'd like to have more and larger cards in my bag. And also bring my ipad so I can use its USB-C port to backup pictures in case the laptop breaks down again.

Realistically, if I was looking at buying 2 of those 2TB cards I'd be very tempted to buy the Laowa Probe lens instead, since that's the same amount of money.


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## Chig (Aug 18, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> On my vacation last week, the laptop refused to power on on day 2, so I had no good way to get pictures of the CFe card. Since it was a family vacation I didn't do muc heavy shooting, but for future trips I'd like to have more and larger cards in my bag. And also bring my ipad so I can use its USB-C port to backup pictures in case the laptop breaks down again.
> 
> Realistically, if I was looking at buying 2 of those 2TB cards I'd be very tempted to buy the Laowa Probe lens instead, since that's the same amount of money.


Or you could just shoot jpeg , when I run out of space I take out my CF card erase my SD card and set my 7Dii to jpeg with my SD 32GB card and I can shoot 10,000 images more.


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## koenkooi (Aug 18, 2021)

Chig said:


> Or you could just shoot jpeg , when I set my 7Dii to jpeg with my CF 32GB + SD 32GB cards I can shoot 10,000 images


With the amount of metering 'mistakes' I make, (C)RAW is the way to go, I had too many cases where I went from shooting normally to shooting backlit and didn't think of bumping up exposure compensation at that moment. 

I'm learning that small kids are harder to photograph than jumping spiders


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## Chig (Aug 18, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> With the amount of metering 'mistakes' I make, (C)RAW is the way to go, I had too many cases where I went from shooting normally to shooting backlit and didn't think of bumping up exposure compensation at that moment.
> 
> I'm learning that small kids are harder to photograph than jumping spiders


Little kids _are_ jumping spiders !


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## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 18, 2021)

perfpix said:


> The "if you can afford an R3, 1DX3 (insert name here)" camera argument you can afford crazy high priced cards is just wrong. As a pro I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend. I don't shoot video, so SD cards are a stellar value. I would one thousand percent rather spend $4000-$5000 on a new body or lens than 20 CFExpress cards, or save the money and take my family on a great vacation! This is one of the main reasons I never upgraded from a 1DX2 to a 1DX3. Didn't want to spend thousands on memory cards.



If you need a professional camera like the R3 then you are also likely to need redundancy from dual cards. Your backup should be as good and reliable as your main card. As it stands you put in one CF Express card and leave the SD slot blank so not to slow down the camera and because SD isn't a backup; it's a failure waiting to happen.


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## cayenne (Aug 18, 2021)

tapanit said:


> I should think it'd be easy enough to use a motion detector to use the movement of the camera up to activate the EVF, without waiting for any buttons to be pressed. The motion of lifting the camera up should be distinct enough that it could avoid being activated during transport &c.
> 
> Canon, if you're reading this: I haven't patented the idea.


I was thinking the same thing.
The optic I have mounted on my carry concealed pistol does this....with movement it immediately illuminates and is ready to go.

That is in such a small package, I'd think it would be child's play to do this with a large camera.

cayenne


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## cayenne (Aug 18, 2021)

john1970 said:


> You are definitely correct. I accidentally left a pair of charged batteries in my R5 vertical grip for several weeks with the camera turned off (likely a couple of months) and when I went to use the camera both batteries were fully discharged! Wow! Normally, I remove batteries from the camera, but in this case I forgot.


Wow...that's interesting.

I've never thought of removing batteries from my cameras, ever....

Is this a common thing amongst us? Do ya'll always remove batteries when you come home and load when you are going out?

I just leave mine in. When I"m about to go out, ro maybe the night before I'll eyeball the camera and see what the charge level is.
I pretty much always have several batteries charged and I may "top off" one or two to make sure....

But I've never thought of removing batteries from my camera when I get home.

I keep them in in case I want to quickly turn it on and grab a quick shot of something that might be happening around the house, or an idea pops in my head I guess.

C


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## koenkooi (Aug 18, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Wow...that's interesting.
> 
> I've never thought of removing batteries from my cameras, ever....
> 
> ...


I leave them in, but I try to check every other week the on the camera I don't use often enough. I use my R5 and M6II almost daily and recharge after use.


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## DBounce (Aug 18, 2021)

Here is the audio adapter for the new digital hotshoe. It will be made by Tascam, in partnership with Canon, Fujifilm and Nikon. It appears it will support 32-bit float audio. So say goodbye to clipping:











Development of new TASCAM XLR audio adapter allows mirrorless cameras in collaboration with Canon, Fujifilm, and Nikon to capture professional audio. | News Details | TASCAM - United States


Development of new TASCAM XLR audio adapter allows mirrorless cameras in collaboration with Canon, Fujifilm, and Nikon to capture professional audio.




tascam.com


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 18, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Here is the audio adapter for the new digital hotshoe. It will be made by Tascam, in partnership with Canon, Fujifilm and Nikon. It appears it will support 32-bit float audio. So say goodbye to clipping:
> View attachment 199651
> 
> 
> ...


I guess the Z9 will have the same shoe.
Canon, Fuji, and Nikon teaming up will put Sony and Panasonic at a disadvantage.


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## perfpix (Aug 18, 2021)

Chig said:


> Great photos John , I can see how the mums & dads would be keen to buy them.
> 
> Do you shoot them in jpeg ? If it's straight from the camera jpeg would look better wouldn't it ?
> 
> The R3 will probably be ideal for your workflow.


Yes always jpeg for the high volume stuff.

John


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## perfpix (Aug 18, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I agree with your sentiment but I am surprised that SD cards could keep up with the type of shots you posted earlier.


SD cards have no problem whatsoever keeping up with my high volume shooting. Been shooting this way to slower CF cards since 2004. Back then I'd bump up against the buffer/card limits but can't remember that happening in the last decade. 

John


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## DBounce (Aug 18, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I guess the Z9 will have the same shoe.
> Canon, Fuji, and Nikon teaming up will put Sony and Panasonic at a disadvantage.


No guarantees of that. The Nikon version is stated to be analog and will need to utilize the microphone input.


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## perfpix (Aug 18, 2021)

photo212 said:


> With any digital processing you will have lag. Fact of life. Even the simplest of digital systems will have lag. Let's get the terminology right. It is impossible to eliminate lag for a mirrorless camera. Impossible. You can achieve very tiny amount of lag by clocking your CPU to work small increments of time per cycle. The right terminology is they might be able to reduce the lag to the point most people will not notice it. Personally, I find even that doubtful. They can reduce the lag to the point where many won't care.


Very true, just as there is lag in sending the signal from your brain to your finger to push the shutter button and and lag from the time you start pushing the shutter button to the time is is depressed enough to trigger the start of the picture taking process. Part of dealing with all the lag is just learning a specific camera's lag and getting used to it. In my experience the lag in R5/R6 in no way negatively affected my timing in taking photos after a day or two of shooting.

Conversely having a bright viewfinder in dim lighting conditions most positively helped my timing just because I could see the action unfold much more clearly. Sometimes I would be using my 1DX2 with a different lens alongside an R5 or R6 and under these conditions when I looked through my 1DX2 it was like looking into a dark cave in comparison. Really made me appreciate the value of having an electronic viewfinder.

John


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## Chig (Aug 18, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> If you need a professional camera like the R3 then you are also likely to need redundancy from dual cards. Your backup should be as good and reliable as your main card. As it stands you put in one CF Express card and leave the SD slot blank so not to slow down the camera and because SD isn't a backup; it's a failure waiting to happen.


Set the SD card to jpeg so you have a back up and it won't slow down your camera.
Most sports pros shoot jpegs most of the time anyway


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## perfpix (Aug 18, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> If you need a professional camera like the R3 then you are also likely to need redundancy from dual cards. Your backup should be as good and reliable as your main card. As it stands you put in one CF Express card and leave the SD slot blank so not to slow down the camera and because SD isn't a backup; it's a failure waiting to happen.


Actually I use a CF Express Card for backup (of which I bought 1 so I could have a backup card), and SD cards as my main cards in the R5. I was shooting JPG stills so performance was never a problem.


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## john1970 (Aug 18, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Wow...that's interesting.
> 
> I've never thought of removing batteries from my cameras, ever....
> 
> ...


I only remove the batteries when storing the camera for more than a week. I have always been concerned with a battery leaking inside a camera when stored for more than a few days. I am probably a bit paranoid, but given the cost of the R5 and other digital cameras it makes sense to me.


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## SNJ Ops (Aug 19, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I guess the Z9 will have the same shoe.
> Canon, Fuji, and Nikon teaming up will put Sony and Panasonic at a disadvantage.


Sony already has a multi interface hot shoe in its recent cameras, shame though that there isn’t one 1 standard.


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 19, 2021)

SNJ Ops said:


> Sony already has a multi interface hot shoe in its recent cameras, shame though that there isn’t one 1 standard.


That was the point I was trying to make.
Sony and Panasonic have audio division so they came up with their own smart hot shoes.
That put them at an advantage.
Canon, Fuji, and Nikon teamed up with TEAC to do the same.
A shared standard is more likely to attract more audio equipment makers and more camera makers.


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## entoman (Aug 20, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Wow...that's interesting.
> 
> I've never thought of removing batteries from my cameras, ever....
> 
> ...


I use my R5 on an almost daily basis, and I always top up the charge the night before. In the field I always have at least 2 fully charged batteries in my pocket, as the power consumption of the R5 is atrocious, even on minimal power settings, rear screen turned off, no chimping, and all timers etc on minimum.

In some circumstances (such as wildlife photography from a safari vehicle) I'd use a battery grip which should in theory double the number of shots possible, but most of the time, when walking around, I don't want the extra bulk and weight.

If I put a camera into storage for more than a couple of weeks, I remove the batteries - my 5DMkiv has been in storage since I bought the R5...


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## unfocused (Aug 20, 2021)

entoman said:


> I use my R5 on an almost daily basis, and I always top up the charge the night before...


Does topping off affect the ability of the battery to hold a charge over time? I know it used to, but I'm curious if anyone knows if this is an issue today.


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## entoman (Aug 20, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Does topping off affect the ability of the battery to hold a charge over time? I know it used to, but I'm curious if anyone knows if this is an issue today.


My experience is that it probably doesn't reduce the ability to hold charge. I've been topping up the charge as standard practice for several years now, with various Canon DSLRs. Some of my batteries are 3-4 years old and have been topped up hundreds of times, but still hold their charge quite well.

Of course, this information is fairly useless, as I haven't conducted a "control" test with batteries that are allowed to go flat before recharging. The only people in a position to provide a real answer to your question are the battery manufacturers - but they ain't gonna tell you how to make your batteries last longer, because they want you to buy more batteries!


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 20, 2021)

entoman said:


> The only people in a position to provide a real answer to your question are the battery manufacturers











BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries


BU meta description needed...




batteryuniversity.com


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## entoman (Aug 20, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries
> 
> 
> BU meta description needed...
> ...


Very useful, thanks.

"Each cycle wears the battery down by a small amount and a partial discharge is better than a full discharge."


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## unfocused (Aug 20, 2021)

entoman said:


> Very useful, thanks.
> 
> "Each cycle wears the battery down by a small amount and a partial discharge is better than a full discharge."


Yes. Thanks @neuroanatomist, just the opposite of what I thought. I going to charge my batteries right now.


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## tarjei99 (Aug 21, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Might have something to do with the disastrous bundling of cards with the 1DxII. How soon we forget.



There is a current deal with the R5 and a SanDisk card.


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## exige24 (Aug 23, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Good thing no one will force you to buy one, then.



A very good thing. Haha


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## exige24 (Aug 23, 2021)

sanj said:


> Noo sir. It is awesome. Although not for me.



The the bar has been raised by multiple other cameras recently. In the current context, it is very meh.


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## koenkooi (Aug 27, 2021)

entoman said:


> Very useful, thanks.
> 
> "Each cycle wears the battery down by a small amount and a partial discharge is better than a full discharge."


On top of that, high (dis)charge currents will cause internal heating and reduce lifespan as well. So the 'slow' recharge through the USB port is likely better for longevity than an external fast charger.


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