# I got defeated :(



## CanonGuy (Oct 23, 2017)

I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today  Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(

I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.

Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy


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## BasXcanon (Oct 23, 2017)

Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!

BTW, what would you like to have that is not on the current 5Dm4?


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## Ryananthony (Oct 23, 2017)

Way to stick it to Canon.


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## mb66energy (Oct 23, 2017)

I understand your complaints ... and a not too extensive but larger lens set I am very satisfied with held me back to change the boat.

3 years ago I was willing to buy a FF body. The 5DsR was a possible candidate but I was not shure, if FF is for me. So I bought a 5D classic to check that. What an upgrade compared to 600D or EOS M in terms of IQ down to the pixel level - o.k. there weren't a lot of pixels compared to e.g. a 5Ds(R). And the 70-200 focal length range was no longer 110-320 equiv. so this zoom tend to feel a little boring.

5D classics DR is limited to roughly 11 stops that was annoying in a lot of (possible) photographs. And I waited for a medium priced FF body (2k EUR / USD).

At the end I bought the second cheapest interchangeable lens body from canon, the 200D / SL2 as the next body - low price, low risk. While a little bit restricted in terms of AF points & speed, physical controls, AFMA, a lot of other features it has some real advantages:
Very good IQ for an APS-C body, very good ergonomics, spot on exposure metering, DPAF and flippy screen as a real problem solver for weird compositions, much higher DR compared to my older cameras (while 18 stops would be more satisfying, as physicist I want the best and most comprehensive data possible).

No chance to make larger profits by Canon from me at the moment.

Still interested in FF body and waiting for 6D iii / 5D v / FF mirrorless for landscape / macro ...


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## CanonGuy (Oct 23, 2017)

BasXcanon said:


> Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!
> 
> BTW, what would you like to have that is not on the current 5Dm4?



D850 is a much much better camera than 5d4 IMHO. 5D5 wont be here for another 3/4 years. A7rii is also a much better camera (sony lens selection was a bit turn off for me) in a number of ways. Imagine what will sony bring in next 3 years while Canon shooters will have to stick to 6d2/5d4 for next 3 years. These will look like dinosaur in 2 years. I wonder how long canon will have to play 'our products works' card and keep innovations in the locker! No company survived being this lazy and arrogant (Kodak, Blackberry, Nokia). Canon is simply falling behind IMHO. And this is their last chance from me. Absolute last chance. 

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.


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## cellomaster27 (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> BasXcanon said:
> 
> 
> > Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!
> ...



Okay, so I'm NOT holding Canon up here! They are absolutely falling back spec and tech wise with their dslr lineup. I think the only reason they are in the market is due to their lens lineup.. To whoever reads this and for the general photo community:

With that being said, unless you need to do something that the camera does not offer (i.e. 4K, frame rates, DR..sure, aliasing filter, etc) your photo is not going to be any better or worse than another persons. On paper, sure, but in reality, hardly noticeable. Look, if you know what you're doing, who cares what camera you have because your photo is what matters. I've seen soooo many people with expensive gear and really nice gear but their photos are just trash. It's better to shoot with an iPhone at that point - waste of money. If you know what you're doing, then you could have a point and shoot and still come out with something wayyy better. And DR, I'm kind of sick of that... get your photos somewhat decently shot and you'll get the detail. I know the arguments there so I'll leave it at that.

With that being said, newer gear is going to be better and there's going to be a camera that can do something that yours can't. But instead of sitting in front of a computer and feeling like your camera isn't good enough, get out and improve on your photography. I'll bet 99% of the issues mentioned here doesn't have to do with not being able to get solid keepers. For me, when I get keepers, that's what matters. Whatever gear you have, I'll say, "show me what you got".


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## Talys (Oct 23, 2017)

Congratulations on your camera! For me, the #1 thing missing on the 5DIV is a flippy screen. I don't know if I'd buy a 5DIV-priced camera if they had one, but I certainly won't until they do.

On the bright side, the user satisfaction of everyone I've known who has owned a 5DIV has been very high. I can't say the same about Sony A7RII -- there are always grumblings -- and I don't know anyone with a D850 yet.



CanonGuy said:


> If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.



Specs do matter, but diminishing returns from technical advancements are also a reality. 

In actual usage, I think an A7RII is horrible. Technical enhancements be damned, pick a pro lens, and the body feels totally unbalanced -- even a 16-35/2.8 -- with the grip being god-awful. The camera actually feels really nice with the smaller kit lenses. But in reality, a top end lens will do a lot more for you than anything else, and that's not going to be short, light, or have a tiny diameter.

I won't lie, I'm jealous of a lot of D850 features, as I am of certain A7RII features (4k video not being among them, lol). However, things will change at some point, and it will be the other way around. And, I'm still very happy with my Canon glass, much more so than I would be with Nikon or Sony glass. And at the end of the day, an A7RII gives me much fewer keepers with wildlife, and I doubt the D850 would mean significantly more or fewer keepers, or, really, much different photos. 

The things I need to improve with my hobby have nothing to do with the camera -- mostly it's field skills to get closer to the subject and to get better composed shots, and well, more time to become more practiced.


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## Ian_of_glos (Oct 23, 2017)

It is a real shame that you feel that way. The 5D mark 4 is an expensive camera and you should not be feeling disappointed or thinking that you could have made a better choice.
When I bought my 5D mark 4 I too thought that perhaps I had made the wrong decision but now, after using it for 6 months I am really delighted with it. It doesn't really matter if another camera brand can do something that my 5D mark 4 can't do. It does everything I want it to do and it is a significant improvement on the 5D mark 3 so that is enough for me. I now can't wait for the weekend to arrive so I can go out and take some pictures. The excitement has returned and it feels just like when I bought my very first camera.
A friend of mine is studying photography at college and she uses a Canon 1100D with the 18-55 lit lens because that is all she is able to afford. Yet you should see the pictures she takes with it. They are absolutely brilliant and she has never once complained that she is unable to afford a better camera.


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## Hector1970 (Oct 23, 2017)

You'll probably end up being satisfied with the 5D IV
It's a very capable camera.
It was not an exciting upgrade.
It looked a feeble effort by Canon to stay close to competitors. Spec wise it's already outdated.
It is still however a great camera from a photograph perspective.
If your photos are not good with it , it's not the cameras fault. It's the user or the lens.
Canon may not be producing new exciting cameras but it's L lens are still top notch.


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## tomscott (Oct 23, 2017)

Jesus... what a first world problem to have... 

Pull yourself together.


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## Maximilian (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> BasXcanon said:
> 
> 
> > Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!
> ...


Wow! That's a really detailed description and Canon R&D will go to their department and process this requirement specification. :
"Much better" is the only thing I could read out of this. Much better - even if - is not very precise and very subjective. :

For your interest:
a German photo magazine came out with its D850 test and the OOC JPEGs of 5D4 did win over the Nikon. 
Of course they did not do a RAW comparisons but "much better" seems to be much overstated.

So thank you for your rant over some spec lists, have fun and get used to your new - and very good - toy and tell us later, what's really missing. Thank you. 



tomscott said:


> Jesus... what a first world problem to have...
> 
> Pull yourself together.


+1


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## 9VIII (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> BasXcanon said:
> 
> 
> > Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!
> ...



You didn’t even try to answer the question.

What do you need that the D850 does and the 5D4 doesn’t do?

As far as I can tell “4K” is still basically the only major complaint, and even that is mostly a matter of file size.
Not everyone wants 45MP either.
Really it’s hard to imagine what Canon would have to do to get people to like the 5D4 any more because at this point they’re doing almost everything that you see on the competition.
Is it the lack of a Flippy Screen?

The default specs on the 5D4 are great, not amazing but people are overhyped for the D850 just because it’s an A7R that can actually autofocus.
Watch what happens with the 5DSR MkII.


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## AcutancePhotography (Oct 23, 2017)

Ryananthony said:


> Way to stick it to Canon.



Yeah, being unhappy with Canon but still buying Canon products.

That will learn 'em.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2017)

Lol. :


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## BasXcanon (Oct 23, 2017)

> The default specs on the 5D4 are great, not amazing but people are overhyped for the D850 just because it’s an A7R that can actually autofocus.
> Watch what happens with the 5DSR MkII.



I had to think twice before I snagged the 5dm4, because it was a bit over budget. 
I didn't want to buy a 6D and 5Dm3 because of missing touchscreens and the inability to use M mode with auto iso.
I didn't want the 5DSR because the files are too large.
I didn't want the 6Dm2 because of the weaker Auto white balance
I didn't want the 1DX because there are no discreet bags on the market for those cameras, (although I still own a 1DS).
I didn't want the 1DXm2 because of $$$$
I didn't want the A9 because of $$$, missing Flicker detection and DP+ Highlight protection, have no Sony lenses =(
I didn't want the A7Rii because of too large files and focus difficulties indoor.
I don't want Nikons because all of their zoom lenses and Teleconverters are optically less than Canon. (Sold my last Nikkor prime lens 6 months ago)

At the moment Canon came with the C-log change, I would rather had Canon discontinued the 5Dm4 and came with 5Dm4 II without: 30 fps frame grap/video/dual pixel BS for *500$ less* and 5DC with 7 Digic processor, C-log, 6,5K video and focus peaking for *5000$ more*.

But the real thing is, in the Nikon world you can get the D810 which has lesser larger files and the D850 that has large files an modern features. In the Canon it is the opposite, the 5Dm4 with all the novelties and the 5DSR with the largest detailed files.

On paper all those Sony and Nikons look good, because they can change their Raw files from 14b to 12b /and or Medium/small etc. In those situation the A6500 and D500 look like they have a buffer of 1500 photos and 10 times outperform the 7Dm2 (35 RAW). But once you need to dial Iso up to 800, and set focus priority and 14b Raw, it is more like 7Dm2 20 raw pictures vs D500/A6500 55 raw pictures.

The A7RII and D850 are not really that much above the 5Dm4.

My biggest 3 disappointments with the 5Dm4 are:
+The manual dial near the shutter cannot change the AF area selection like the 6DII and 80D. Thats what they want you to use the Area selection dial for, but I use that one for exposure compensation.
+The shutter release button in the Canon app to trigger you camera via WIFI is too small. I always try to hide my phone when doing self-portraits, but my fingers keep missing the tiny button in the App.
+The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.


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## tron (Oct 23, 2017)

BasXcanon said:


> ...
> 
> My biggest 3 disappointments with the 5Dm4 are:
> +The manual dial near the shutter cannot change the AF area selection like the 6DII and 80D. Thats what they want you to use the Area selection dial for, but I use that one for exposure compensation.
> ...



Smoe thoughts about your ... biggest disappointments.
1. You can use the rear dial for exposure compensation. But since you mentioned my preference: M mode with exp compensation there is a very helpful way to setup exp compensation: You configure the SET button for exp compensation to use when in Manual Auto ISO mode. So you press the SET button and turn the main dial accordingly. It is a very powerful/helpful feature. I suggest you try it.
2. Although a Canon app issue it is not a 5D4 specific one. They can fix it by upgrading the Android/IOS app. OK maybe the correct wording here should be "if upgrading" and not "when upgrading" but still not a 5D4 issue.
3. You can easily set the setting to OFF when you buy a new camera. It is not a big deal. Still even at the OFF setting you may encounter no autofocus issues when the lens focus ring is way off (the image is very blurred). In that case you can help it by turning the ring manually a little. These are rare cases but do happen even with modern lenses. On another topic since you bought such an expensive camera maybe you could upgrade the 28-85 lens say to a 24-105L


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## BasXcanon (Oct 23, 2017)

tron said:


> BasXcanon said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Thanks Tron,
but my Set button is for the quick flash menu option. The way the 80D/6Dm2 can toggle between 1 point AF and 9 points combined is the best there is for me. 

The app is indeed not camera related, but I use the smart app a lot more for live view than I did with the 80D because of the missing vari-angle screen. But I got all my EFS sold, and have a G1Xm3 on pre order.

I have considered the 24-70mm F4, but I would only use that one as a 'on the go lens'. Which is what the G1Xm3 is gonna do for me. If I can find one that offers 100$ for the 28-85 I would rather get the 28mm F2.8 IS again.


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## AlanF (Oct 23, 2017)

BasXcanon said:


> My biggest 3 disappointments with the 5Dm4 are:
> +The manual dial near the shutter cannot change the AF area selection like the 6DII and 80D. Thats what they want you to use the Area selection dial for, but I use that one for exposure compensation.
> +The shutter release button in the Canon app to trigger you camera via WIFI is too small. I always try to hide my phone when doing self-portraits, but my fingers keep missing the tiny button in the App.
> +The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.



If they are your biggest disappointments, then the 5DIV must be a terrific camera.


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## Orangutan (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.



No one argues that. The question is to what degree those specs will translate into better photos and a more enjoyable experience for you.


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## scottkinfw (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today  Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(
> 
> I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
> 
> Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy



You are not defeated. Was the purchase a need like breathing, or a want like a Porsche vs. a Chevy or Ford? If your current kit wasn't limiting you, _and  you didn't like the offerings, just wait, or get a 1DXII or a 5Dsr or something.

Most of us have GAS and we all know that Canon has long product cycles, but their gear works great.

Just my 2 cents, not criticism.

scott_


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## scottkinfw (Oct 23, 2017)

Talys said:


> Congratulations on your camera! For me, the #1 thing missing on the 5DIV is a flippy screen. I don't know if I'd buy a 5DIV-priced camera if they had one, but I certainly won't until they do.
> 
> On the bright side, the user satisfaction of everyone I've known who has owned a 5DIV has been very high. I can't say the same about Sony A7RII -- there are always grumblings -- and I don't know anyone with a D850 yet.
> 
> ...



Well said. I was humbled years ago on a trip to Denali. At the time, I took out a Panasonic point and shoot and grabbed a shot (the same shot) as my Canon 50D with 400 5.6L, and the results were a kick in the teeth! 

I have spent for me what is a lot of money on lenses, way more on the camera bodies, and of course, lenses last while bodies come and go. When I look at my bad shots, it has NEVER been due to the camera or lens, I have to take the credit for that. Better specs when cameras are this good may only be appreciable on the bench, or not. New features may be great, but not appealing to all. 

I guess my point is that we can't get everything we wish for.

Scott


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## unfocused (Oct 23, 2017)

tomscott said:


> Jesus... what a first world problem to have...
> 
> Pull yourself together.



+1.

I don't know which is more ridiculous. That someone would spend $3,000 on a camera they don't want, or that they would be so self-absorbed that they feel compelled to post about it on a forum and expect sympathy.


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## Mikehit (Oct 23, 2017)

BasXcanon said:


> +The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.



If preferring not having to change a menu preset counts as a 'failing' then I'd say Canon has got it pretty much spot on. 
A crazier one for me is always shipping cameras with 'shoot with out card' set to 'yes'.


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## sdsr (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today  Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(
> 
> I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
> 
> Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy



So why buy a 5Div in the first place? If your 5Diii/6D needed an upgrade because they were wearing out in some way, and if the specs of a 5Div were disappointing, why not just buy another 5Diii/6D and save the money? And if the 5Div makes you sad, why not return it? I suspect that the number of photos that are better because they were taken with a 5Div rather than a 5Diii is trivially small.... 

(I prefer using the Sony a7rII only because I prefer mirrorless, and I prefer that largely because that makes manual focusing much easier; just about any camera you can buy today can generate superb images.)


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## Pookie (Oct 23, 2017)

This is the problem with this forum... it's not based in reality. 

On one side you have hobbyist who ABSOLUTELY need to have the utmost/newest lens, camera, etc... and when they get it all else was trash before. It is their pride and joy, they will show you how they spent their money and why you need to also. "This thing is better than sliced bread...", blue goo will save the world and make me a better photographer. I NEED IS on everything because x, y, and z. Fanboy die-hards that care more about having the newest best tech than actually learning to enjoy photography.

The other side of the equation here is the "Crippled Junk"... Canon screwed me!!! I can't take pictures in my closet with the lens cap on without getting all this damn noise. Or why can't I lift shadows 28 stops so I can see into the shadow of that canyon while shooting a sunrise... Nikon, Sony and ... all do it better but why can't Canon.

Reality... and I've said it before. The 5D4 is a good camera. Is it the best in the world no. Is it better than the 5D3, slightly. Should you dump you 5D(whatever) in the trash and sell of your child to buy the latest and greatest... hardly. It's just another camera body. Do I love the 5D3, yes, great camera. Do I feel it is the best in the world... hardly. Pick any brand, any model and you can find something to love and something to hate. I own lots of cameras, lots of makers... each has a spot in my bag not because it the very best but because they provide something I want, not need. Nothing about this is life and death. 

Where you would better serve yourself is to stop the chase for IS on everything, stop worrying about DR, stop thinking if this lens just had this coating or... Grab your camera, whatever it is and go outside...take photos and enjoy yourself. Nothing you buy or own will make you a better photographer. They are just tools, the real artistry is in how you use what you can't buy...


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## CanonGuy (Oct 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus... what a first world problem to have...
> ...



I DO NOT NEED SYMPATHY FROM CANON FANS LIKE YOU. I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product. And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion? 3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.


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## Doug Brock (Oct 23, 2017)

*Canon system - win for me*

Busy week for me - Theatre headshots on Tuesday, Soccer/senior night on Thursday evening, HS football- first round playoffs Friday night, swim team at conference meet on Saturday, two senior sessions on Sunday, and Soccer district playoffs this evening. Lots of challenging lighting at the high school events but my 5DIV and 5DIII were up to the job, letting me respond quickly to changes as lighting and activity shifted through each event. My 24-70 f/2.8L II on one hip and either the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II or 100-400II on the other hip, the Canon gear with its performance and interface didn't get in my way but helped keep me a happy (but exhausted) photographer. 

Canon provides a great system and I love it. Would I consider changing to another company? Certainly not anytime soon! Just considering learning new menus and new button layouts and action, and even the seemingly minor issues of worrying about different batteries between models - shudder. My experience and comfort with the Canon system is worth a lot to me! 

(Oh, I should mention another factor - support. CPS support for cleaning and repairs has been a great value to me and is another significant factor in considering a camera system.)


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## DaviSto (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> I DO NOT NEED SYMPATHY FROM CANON FANS LIKE YOU. I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product. And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion? 3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.


While I can understand your annoyance, I think you should have seen this coming. Whatever your intention, it could easily be foreseen that your original post and follow-up were going to unsettle and irritate many users of this forum. And ... well ... some people got unsettled and irritated and let you know that in their responses. It just goes with the territory.

Again, with this being the forum that it is, if anybody from Canon Marketing ever does take it upon themselves to skim this thread, their general impression is going to be that Canon probably got the 5Div about right on balance. That's not the message that you wanted to get across. 

I think you would be better off writing directly to Canon explaining your disappointment and the specific reasons for it. That way your message wouldn't get lost in all the noise (or fairly satisfied murmurings).


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product.



Have you considered actually telling Canon —directly— how you feel? Write them. Call them. Posting in a forum that's completely independent from Canon, and 'hoping that someone from Canon will see how you feel' is like having 'I will win the lottery' as a retirement savings plan. Plus, you already told Canon how you _really_ feel...by giving them $3K for a camera. 

And if you actually did want Canon to read what you wrote, well...remember those grade school standardized tests where they presented you with a short paragraph and then had you pick the best title? I'm not sure how you did on those, but if, " I got defeated " is the best you can do here...I'm guessing you were a drag on your school's overall scoring. 

But, wait...you didn't just say that you hope Canon will see how _you_ feel, but how _their customers_ feel. Looking at posts from people other than you, generally I think to the extent that Canon would learn anything from this thread (which, as we've established, is pretty damn unlikely), they'll learn that the 5DIV is a success.

So, well done...and I repeat: LOL. :


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## ahsanford (Oct 23, 2017)

tomscott said:


> Jesus... what a first world problem to have...
> 
> Pull yourself together.



+1



CanonGuy said:


> If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.



"I was walking down the street and this guy had a better camera than me and told me that his had 4K and and 6 more MP and had 7% more DR and 2 more fps and his pictures were 23% better and all those words hurt my feelings."

_-- said by no one ever_


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> 3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that.


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## unfocused (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > tomscott said:
> ...


And you aren't getting any. So I guess we are all happy.



CanonGuy said:


> ...I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product...


 
If that's why you are here, you are sadly mistaken about how forums work. As others have pointed out, if you want to communicate with Canon why not do it directly? If you are such a successful photographer, surely you must be a Platinum CPS member. Have you tried to contact them?



CanonGuy said:


> ...And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion?



You are not self-absorbed because we have a difference of opinion. You are self-absorbed because you think your opinion is so important that you started a thread to whine and because, as Tom Scott said, it's pretty much the epitome of a first world problem.



CanonGuy said:


> ...3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.



I actually was feeling a little bad saying you seemed self-absorbed. But then, reading the above comment pretty much killed any empathy I had.

Honestly, I did feel bad enough to go back and re-read your initial comment and your responses to others and I cannot for the life of me see what your complaint is.

I can find no specifics about any weaknesses in the 5DIV. No mention of what it cannot do that you need for your work...just some vague complaining about how you think it is somehow behind competitors' products. The impression is certainly that it simply isn't "whiz bang" enough for your tastes.

I'm actually kind of stunned that a working professional would feel this way. I understand enthusiasts who have a fascination with cameras and feel the need to have the newest gizmo. But, usually professional photographers are focused on the results, rather than the technology.

A sincere suggestion: In the future, when you feel the need to rant on a forum, you might get a bit more sympathy if you provide some specifics and explain how it affects your shooting, rather than simply go off on a tangent.


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## Don Haines (Oct 23, 2017)

It is very possible to buy your Canon camera, yet at the same time to wish that it had other features and different specs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

For example, I go a 6D2..... I wish it was better, I wish it had a bit more dynamic range, I really wish that they could come up with a good WiFi application for remote control, yet at the same time I can confidently state that it was the best camera out there for my requirements.


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## Mikehit (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > tomscott said:
> ...



I am still not sure what the D850 does that you can't do with the 5D4 - all I know is you think the D850 is a 'better camera' but you have not explained why. On the spec sheet the D850 has a wider set of functions but what do those mean to you that make you so frustrated with Canon? If you are looking at specs you don't use but think it shows how little canon care about you, then that is not a position I understand nor can I sympathise with it. 
If staying with a brand made me so frustrated and made me feel so defeated as you say you are, I would sell up and take the hit because to me saving the money would not be worth all the years of looking at my images permanently thinking 'if only I had bought Nikon...'. 

But I agree with others: that in buying the D850 you are at best saying 'Canon are doing things right' and at worst you are saying 'the differences are not worth the money'.


----------



## Mikehit (Oct 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > ...3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.
> ...



Adding to my previous comment just posted - if 3k is 'nothing' then you can surely afford to switch systems? If you hadn't bought the 5DIV by instead bought the D850, would you 'lose' 5k on your lenses? Probably not. And I say 5k only because if 3k is 'nothing' then my guess is it would take at least 5k to start biting.


----------



## Jopa (Oct 23, 2017)

Happy trolling and anti-trolling folks!

Nice to see so many fresh comments around this topic because the forum frankly was getting boring 

CanonGuy is getting an award _troll of the day_ today. Mazel tov!


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.



The problem with specs is they can't take a photo. They are important, but manufacturers conveniently leave out the gotchas to make it appear as though you have a wonderful feature, but it has limits, sometimes limits that make the camera unusable for my usage.

Then there are the missing items that they don't tell you. For example, a camera may have live view, but its so slow as to be unusable, or it can only be viewed at very low resolution which makes it useless for manual focusing.

So, read impartial user reviews to see just how well those specs actually work, and hopefully find a few of the limitations that are not given.

I purchased a new high end camera based on specs, and found about the ones they did not promote, which made the camera useless to me. The feature work fine on even the cheapest Canon DSLR.

I'm sure that the D850 is a great camera, but I've learned that specs are just a start, you need to make sure that a unfamiliar camera will work they way you intend to use it.

One of the nice things about the 5D MK IV is its fast DPAF in liveview, if you are not shooting fast moving subjects, it can focus almost any lens perfectly without a need for AFMA. That can be really great for some 3rd party lenses that tend to have focus accuracy issues. There is a drawback there as well, precise location of the exact AF spot is not possible. Its good 90% of the time, but I find it a problem for close up product photos, I need to tweak the focus manually to get the exact spot I need in focus. Thats another example of specs that don't tell the whole story.


----------



## unfocused (Oct 23, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> It is very possible to buy your Canon camera, yet at the same time to wish that it had other features and different specs. The two are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> For example, I go a 6D2..... I wish it was better, I wish it had a bit more dynamic range, I really wish that they could come up with a good WiFi application for remote control, yet at the same time I can confidently state that it was the best camera out there for my requirements.



I don't believe anyone would disagree with that, Don. I think the problem here is the tone of self-pity coupled with the complete lack of any specificity in the complaint. In just a single sentence "I wish it had a bit more dynamic range, I really wish that they could come up with a good WiFi application for remote control..." you provided two clear examples of the 6DII's weaknesses and how they can affect your use of the camera. Had the OP taken the time to spell out what his complaints were and what the impact is on his shooting, he might have garnered a little less contempt.

The people on this forum are not blind to the weaknesses of any camera. Indeed, there would be little need for the forum if we all felt our current cameras were flawless.


----------



## ahsanford (Oct 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I don't believe anyone would disagree with that, Don. I think the problem here is the tone of self-pity coupled with the complete lack of any specificity in the complaint.



If they don't type a reason, one can only conclude they believe the D850 is better because it has bigger numbers -- more MP, higher framerate, higher DXO score, etc.

I cannot wait for folks to be shocked and devastated when yet another year goes by and the EXIF data of WPP awards shows that the best pics continue to be taken on antiquated sensors with modestly-spec'd bodies.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I cannot wait for folks to be shocked and devastated when yet another year goes by and the EXIF data of WPP awards shows that the best pics continue to be taken on antiquated sensors with modestly-spec'd bodies.



Oh, Sony...where art thou?


----------



## Luds34 (Oct 23, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> It is very possible to buy your Canon camera, yet at the same time to wish that it had other features and different specs. The two are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> For example, I go a 6D2..... I wish it was better, I wish it had a bit more dynamic range, I really wish that they could come up with a good WiFi application for remote control, yet at the same time I can confidently state that it was the best camera out there for my requirements.



Have you tried bluetooth yet? I've never used a smartphone wifi camera app that I've liked yet. I was hopeful maybe using bluetooth would give a quicker connection, better experience. I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet and am genuinely curious if the experience was any better.


----------



## ethanz (Oct 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot wait for folks to be shocked and devastated when yet another year goes by and the EXIF data of WPP awards shows that the best pics continue to be taken on antiquated sensors with modestly-spec'd bodies.
> ...



Why should we trust WPP as our source of a good camera? I bet Canon pays off the committee and all the photographers to use their gear. Sony cameras are too nice to be used by PJs anyways. :


----------



## Don Haines (Oct 23, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > It is very possible to buy your Canon camera, yet at the same time to wish that it had other features and different specs. The two are not mutually exclusive.
> ...


I tried it and all it seemed to do was add in an extra step to connecting over WiFi.... I probably did it wrong . I should give it a try again to see what happens when my home WiFi is off.


----------



## takesome1 (Oct 23, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> .I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.



With that kind of money I say use the money from three or four weddings and you can replace all your gear with gear that makes you happy.

The new equipment would not limit the dynamic range of your work as much and you would probably get more jobs.


----------



## DaviSto (Oct 23, 2017)

takesome1 said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > .I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.
> ...


You're right of course ... every bride's first question (or her mother's, at least) ... _"How much DR have you got?"_


----------



## tron (Oct 23, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> BasXcanon said:
> 
> 
> > +The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.
> ...


+1 I change both of these settings as soon as I get a new Canon DSLR.


----------



## anthonyd (Oct 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Really? It is "a first world problem"? Unlike all the other problems discussed in this forum, which I guess are about the hungry and the homeless. Give me a break.

And no, he is not "sadly mistaken about how forums work". Not in principle anyway. A serious company with a PR department should be paying attention to forums. Surely, no individual opinion matters to a company the size of Canon, but if a whole bunch of people "whine" about the latest products the company should get a different message than when a whole bunch of people are excited about the latest products.

And if you want a specific list of features that the Canon cameras do not have while other do, don't ask that guy, go to dxomark.com, click on "CAMERAS" and then scroll down the long list of most successful cameras until you find the first Canon one that made it in the list (I'm kidding, it's not that long, there are only 16 cameras that rank better than the best Canon) and then read the individual comparisons.

Oh, oh, and about being "stunned that a working professional would [...] feel the need to have the newest gizmo", this IS a forum about the newest gizmos. Sure, a good photographer does not *need* the newest gizmos, look what Adams shot with, right? But c'mon now. ;-)

You all just set the guy ablaze because he complained about the precious little brand we've all be spending our fortunes on and you just don't want to hear it. And on that note, I'm ready for the fires coming my way!


----------



## Don Haines (Oct 23, 2017)

DaviSto said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > CanonGuy said:
> ...



I thought that the mother’s first question was “is he a DR.”


----------



## DaviSto (Oct 24, 2017)

> Really? It is "a first world problem"? Unlike all the other problems discussed in this forum, which I guess are about the hungry and the homeless. Give me a break.
> 
> And no, he is not "sadly mistaken about how forums work". Not in principle anyway. A serious company with a PR department should be paying attention to forums. Surely, no individual opinion matters to a company the size of Canon, but if a whole bunch of people "whine" about the latest products the company should get a different message than when a whole bunch of people are excited about the latest products.
> 
> ...


No 'fires coming your way' ... no need to pretend this is some kind of battlezone. We're just talking about our preferences in camera systems.

But it's simple ... CanonGuy didn't 'need' a new camera but liked the idea of having one. He chose to buy a 5Div because, overall, Canon was the best option available to him. What more is there to say?

He was free to make any choice. He figured what was best value for him and he made his decision ... but still felt the need to rant, whine and moan. Why go on so? Why get so upset?

And you full well know, camera manufacturers have far superior ways of understanding customer preferences than monitoring troll-infested internet forums. Internet fora are mainly for entertainment and must be just about the worst possible place to look for reliable feed back on camera performance/design.


----------



## brad-man (Oct 24, 2017)

DaviSto said:


> > Really? It is "a first world problem"? Unlike all the other problems discussed in this forum, which I guess are about the hungry and the homeless. Give me a break.
> >
> > And no, he is not "sadly mistaken about how forums work". Not in principle anyway. A serious company with a PR department should be paying attention to forums. Surely, no individual opinion matters to a company the size of Canon, but if a whole bunch of people "whine" about the latest products the company should get a different message than when a whole bunch of people are excited about the latest products.
> >
> ...




Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You're new here so I'll cut you some slack on your ignorance. I'll have you know that we have several people here who know far far more than Canon, Nikon and Sony combined. It's only a matter of time before they start their own companies and make the big three go the way of the Dodo. Lesson over...


----------



## scottkinfw (Oct 24, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lol. :



Hey Neuro.

I was waiting for, and greatly disappointed that you didn't make a snarky and inscrutable argument. Then I realized that you must be sick and tired of typing the same, cogent points time and time again.

Scott


----------



## DaviSto (Oct 24, 2017)

> Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You're new here so I'll cut you some slack on your ignorance. I'll have you know that we have several people here who know far far more than Canon, Nikon and Sony combined. It's only a matter of time before they start their own companies and make the big three go the way of the Dodo. Lesson over...


OK ... I get it. I see the light! How could I have been so easily fooled?

I understand now that these fine upstanding people are working diligently on their theories, plans and blueprints. Before my children's children's grandchildren pass from this world, they will no doubt have come up with their first tentative proposal.

I stand happily admonished.


----------



## Cariboucoach (Oct 24, 2017)

tomscott said:


> Jesus... what a first world problem to have...
> 
> Pull yourself together.



+10^(100)


----------



## scottkinfw (Oct 24, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > tomscott said:
> ...



No offense, spending money on things you are not a fan of is just foolish.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Oct 24, 2017)

Always a few laughs skimming a thread like this but boy it gets stale really fast.

Jack


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 24, 2017)

Yep. You could have got the Nikon. You would have more MP and slightly better Dynamic range but you would have had to put up with Nikons horrendous user interface. Maybe you could have had a Sony. Again better DR but unbelievably uncomfortable in the hand and as you said, not many lenses and likely a body that is prone to overheating. What you got is a camera that will take brilliant photos in 99% of situations, is incredibly comfortable to use and hold, has by far the best user interface of any camera and a native lens selection that all other brands would kill for. And is also a camera that is unlikely to let you down. Canon do not make spec sheet wonders. If you want that go to Sony. They make cameras that do the job, do it well and do it day after day after day. And they are a pleasure to use unlike other brands. You didn't get defeated. You bought a fantastic camera. I wish I had the bucks to get one. Enjoy it.


----------



## pdirestajr (Oct 24, 2017)

Stay a generation behind in camera bodies and you’ll amazingly never be defeated!


----------



## Dylan777 (Oct 24, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today  Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(
> 
> I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
> 
> Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy



My friends are Wedding Pros, with 5K sq-ft studio in Orange County, California. After 20yrs plus with Canon they made a switch to Sony few months back. They now shooting with A9(6units), a7r II(2 units) and a7sII(2units) plus all the GM lenses and fast FE primes. According to them, best decision ever


----------



## Ian_of_glos (Oct 24, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today  Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(
> ...


Thank you - it is always interesting to hear real life experiences. 
What was their main reason for switching and, having used both systems, what do they consider to be the key advantages of the Sony system?


----------



## scyrene (Oct 24, 2017)

anthonyd said:


> Really? It is "a first world problem"? Unlike all the other problems discussed in this forum, which I guess are about the hungry and the homeless. Give me a break.
> 
> And no, he is not "sadly mistaken about how forums work". Not in principle anyway. A serious company with a PR department should be paying attention to forums. Surely, no individual opinion matters to a company the size of Canon, but if a whole bunch of people "whine" about the latest products the company should get a different message than when a whole bunch of people are excited about the latest products.
> 
> ...



Yawn. The OP was deliberately inflamatory from someone who's used this forum long enough to know precisely what response he would get. Maybe read around here and hopefully you'll see that the regulars offer help and constructive advice when it is warranted. But if someone posts the thousandth topic 'I'm gonna whine about some unspecified failing that Canon needs to address NOW' then they will be met with the reponse that deserves.

Maybe the sentiment was heartfelt, but somehow I feel 'professional with money to burn', 'I couldn't change systems', 'Nikon is so much better', and 'I went with a 5D4 anyway' don't all add up. I have CanonGuy muted, and there's a reason for that.


----------



## Dylan777 (Oct 24, 2017)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > CanonGuy said:
> ...



Silent shooting and Eye-AF/Face are the key features for them. They said exp-comp is no longer a guess, faster fps and much better AF tracking are huge plus. Also, something CR members don't like to talk about is DR/sensor 

The big cons for them is still battery life. They use grip plus 2-4 batteries extras. They no longer own any Canon gear.


----------



## ahsanford (Oct 24, 2017)

anthonyd said:


> You all just set the guy ablaze because he complained about the precious little brand we've all be spending our fortunes on and you just don't want to hear it. And on that note, I'm ready for the fires coming my way!



No fire for you, sir. I appreciate you sticking up for a fellow poster. But as Scyrene just said, the OP is not exactly a paradigm of positivity and respect. :

He's also gone on a number of rants about never giving Canon another dime because of sensor performance or spec list gripes. And then, when he needs to get a new body, he realizes that *specs aren't everything* and he stays in the fold. 

But rather than tip his cap to Canon for the aspects of their value proposition that he didn't appreciate the value of, instead he climbs upon a soapbox, shakes his fist, and wishes he wasn't a slave to that compelling value proposition. Through all of this, Canon still wasn't listening to him yet still got his money.

Trolling is never warranted, but a healthy comeuppance for past deeds rendered most assuredly is. I say fie on his crocodile tears. 

- A


----------



## unfocused (Oct 24, 2017)

scyrene said:


> anthonyd said:
> 
> 
> > ...You all just set the guy ablaze because he complained about the precious little brand we've all be spending our fortunes on and you just don't want to hear it. And on that note, I'm ready for the fires coming my way!
> ...



This summarizes the problem for me. Like most of the regulars here, I have plenty of complaints about Canon and I've voiced them on the forum -- prompting some criticism and some agreement. (I'd be happy to provide a list of what I would like to see improved, but that's not the point of this post)

What I don't want to hear about my "precious little brand" are rants that offer no context, no specificity and no examples of how those failings impact one's photography other than it bruises someone's tender little ego not to have the latest and greatest toy.


----------



## Talys (Oct 24, 2017)

Look, the reason this is described as a "first world problem" is that there are a lot of people who would love to spend $3,500 on a camera body (including me!). It's very hard to be sympathetic to someone who seems to force themselves to buy a very expensive, professional camera body that they essentially know they're going to be unhappy with. That's like throwing money away.

I mean, if you want a Nikon, please go buy one, and I'll be happy for you. If you want a D850 combined with all of the things that make Canon a good system, you should wait for a future Canon body, or for Nikon to develop a whole bunch of lenses, or for a Sony to develop a bunch of lenses and a body that can actually be handled. If you want that today, sorry, it doesn't exist: pick your compromise or save your money and, hopefully, be happy with it.

At any rate, whichever $3,500 body is chosen, that won't be the limiting factor in producing award winning, magazine cover quality photography.


----------



## DaviSto (Oct 24, 2017)

Talys said:


> Look, the reason this is described as a "first world problem" is that there are a lot of people who would love to spend $3,500 on a camera body (including me!). It's very hard to be sympathetic to someone who seems to force themselves to buy a very expensive, professional camera body that they essentially know they're going to be unhappy with. That's like throwing money away.
> 
> I mean, if you want a Nikon, please go buy one, and I'll be happy for you. If you want a D850 combined with all of the things that make Canon a good system, you should wait for a future Canon body, or for Nikon to develop a whole bunch of lenses, or for a Sony to develop a bunch of lenses and a body that can actually be handled. If you want that today, sorry, it doesn't exist: pick your compromise or save your money and, hopefully, be happy with it.
> 
> At any rate, whichever $3,500 body is chosen, that won't be the limiting factor in producing award winning, magazine cover quality photography.


Perfectly put


----------



## wsmith96 (Oct 24, 2017)

pdirestajr said:


> Stay a generation behind in camera bodies and you’ll amazingly never be defeated!



+1 - works great for me!


----------



## Besisika (Oct 24, 2017)

anthonyd said:


> You all just set the guy ablaze because he complained about the precious little brand we've all be spending our fortunes on and you just don't want to hear it. And on that note, I'm ready for the fires coming my way!


My friend calls it the syndrome of cheated husband. "Don't tell anything bad about my wife, I personally chose her; she is an angel. Can't you see it; your wife is b..ch".
The bottom line is, if you want to learn photography: go out and shoot, whatever gear you have. If you want to get hurt: come and troll at CR. You are going to get it. 
Sometimes I am wondering "what gives people more happiness: taking photos or killing trolls?". A poll maybe?


----------



## Zen (Oct 24, 2017)

"My friend calls it the syndrome of cheated husband. "Don't tell anything bad about my wife, I personally chose her; she is an angel. Can't you see it; your wife is b..ch".
The bottom line is, if you want to learn photography: go out and shoot, whatever gear you have. If you want to get hurt: come and troll at CR. You are going to get it. 
Sometimes I am wondering "what gives people more happiness: taking photos or killing trolls?". A poll maybe?"

Plus +++

What never ceases to amaze is why people just don't go out and buy whatever it is that satisfies them? Why buy something, anything, and then spend hours, days, or weeks complaining about what they just bought? Its nauseating! I wish I had that much extra energy . . .

Zen, a happy Canon shooter ;D


----------



## Jopa (Oct 25, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> DaviSto said:
> 
> 
> > takesome1 said:
> ...



LOL! He was just a PA... But mother said ok as long as he's not an NP.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 26, 2017)

unfocused said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus... what a first world problem to have...
> ...



Probably pre-ordered to boot.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 26, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > tomscott said:
> ...



You are hilarious. Send Canon a letter or email directly if what you want is for them to know what you think. This forum is probably the least effective way to do that. So yes, you do need sympathy. On the other hand... way to go! You showed them!!! Yay!!!!!


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product.
> ...



Well, on September 1st 2017 he swore he'd never give Canon another dime.



CanonGuy said:


> Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.



Then on October 23rd he bought a brand new 5D IV:



CanonGuy said:


> I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today  Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(
> 
> I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
> 
> Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy



If he can't take himself seriously, then why should we or Canon?


----------



## pwp (Oct 26, 2017)

CanonGuy said:


> I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerance limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
> Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy


Just get on and enjoy your 5D4. I moved from a worn out 5D3 to 5D4 about a year ago and couldn't be happier. The 5D3 was good, but the 5D4 is a much better camera in so many well documented respects. You've just spent up, and there is absolutely no need for buyers regret. You've got yourself a great camera. I predict you'll stay with Canon. 

-pw


----------



## tron (Oct 26, 2017)

The more I use the more I like my 5D4. I sold one 5D3 and now I am thinking of selling my second one.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 26, 2017)

pwp said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerance limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
> ...



Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!



For people who switched from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are very substantial. For people who decided not to switch from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are not very significant. 

I'd suggest thinking of it this way – if you feel that your photography is limited by the AF performance and/or IQ of the 5DIII, it's probably worth upgrading. Personally, I don't find the AF or the IQ of my 1D X to be limiting, which is why I didn't buy a 1D X II (and have no plans to, unless my 1D X irreparably breaks).


----------



## ahsanford (Oct 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!
> ...



Exactly my situation. My 5D3 AF is not holding me back other than some flaky results I've had with off-center large aperture use with a 50L : and 35 Art : : :. The 5D3 AF is fantastic for me otherwise.

In crude comparison terms, the 5D2 AF jumped from a 5/10 to a 9/10 on the 5D3 -- the AF literally went from being the 5D2's #1 liability to the 5D3's AF being nearly the best (it's 1DX-like after all) in one generation; the AF upgrade alone justified upgrading from the 5D2, IMHO. 

I'm sure the 5D4 is better yet for general use (and all kinds of new tech bells/whistles beyond vanilla OVF use), but the major delta from iffy to rock solid has already happened in my book.

Full disclosure for my rating: I only use servo AF a handful of times a year and rarely if ever shoot at full 6 fps. My AF asks are solid coverage of the frame, convenience/flexibilty of changing points/clusters/locations, accuracy and consistency much much much more than asking it to predictively track Lionel Messi amongst a sea of defenders. Of course, your asks of your AF system may very well be different.

- A


----------



## H. Jones (Oct 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



Even as someone who uses servo AF and fast FPS constantly, I totally agree regarding the 5D3 vs. the 5D2. I've been using a 5D2 borrowed from my work's old spare pool gear for a few days while my 5D3 is at Canon for some repairs, and over the past few days the difference has been hugely noticeable, not from an image quality basis, but from an autofocus basis. I can totally use the 5D mark II to get pictures, don't get me wrong, but the focus system difference is striking. In comparison the 5D3 has made an excellent and 100% capable back-up to my 1Dx2, even though I do miss some of the even newer tech of the 1DX2, such as DPAF and the touchscreen. 

I have definitely been giving a lot of thought to the 5D Mark IV, especially considering the refurbished are only $2300 at the moment, but it definitely seems like a sweet upgrade that's worth the jump. I would have preferred 8 or 9 FPS to 7, but in most situations where I truly need high FPS my 1DX2 more than gets that job done anyway. 

That said, because the 5D3 is such a capable camera, I doubt I'll ever really sell it. Would rather have three fully-capable cameras than two, so in that sense I think Canon had the right idea in their upgrades for the 5D Mark IV; sensor tech/dynamic range, some focus tech, Wi-Fi, resolution, etc, were all excellent choices for an upgrade.


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2017)

H. Jones said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



That's all good to read and it bodes well for what the 5D V will be. There is no way in the world the 5D mark III is holding me back. It is a lot of camera. Even if I upgrade during the next model rotation I don't think I'll ever sell my Mark III.


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## Jopa (Oct 27, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> That's all good to read and it bodes well for what the 5D V will be. There is no way in the world the 5D mark III is holding me back. It is a lot of camera. Even if I upgrade during the next model rotation I don't think I'll ever sell my Mark III.



Don't tell this anyone on DPR!  Everybody must _jump ship_ ASAP LOL.


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## Ozarker (Oct 30, 2017)

Jopa said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > That's all good to read and it bodes well for what the 5D V will be. There is no way in the world the 5D mark III is holding me back. It is a lot of camera. Even if I upgrade during the next model rotation I don't think I'll ever sell my Mark III.
> ...



Think I'll start selling life jackets.


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## AcutancePhotography (Oct 31, 2017)

I dream of the time when my camera body is the weakest link in my photographic system.


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## Ozarker (Oct 31, 2017)

AcutancePhotography said:


> I dream of the time when my camera body is the weakest link in my photographic system.



Ha! Me too. I am definitely the weakest link. I look at it this way: If I can outgrow the 5D Mark III I'd be a very happy man. So far, I cannot. So I'm saving money because I have no real excuse to upgrade. Upgrading from the 70D was huge. I can't imagine things getting much better than the 5D Mark III for me.


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## Ozarker (Oct 31, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!
> ...



Perfect way to look at things. Thanks!


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## AlanF (Oct 31, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > I dream of the time when my camera body is the weakest link in my photographic system.
> ...



You see the improvements as you push the camera to its limits. I find the AF has improved and I can capture birds in flight much better. But, if you are not taking shots of fast moving birds it would not be that noticeable a difference.


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## SecureGSM (Oct 31, 2017)

5D IV images taken at ISO 3200+ are much cleaner than taken with 5D III...
there are number of other IQ related improvements that are very noticeable in 5D IV.

i.e. should you push sliders in Lightroom a bit further, 5D III RAW files would start falling apart much faster than 5D IV files... highlights recovery works better for 5D IV files for me... etc.




AlanF said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
> ...


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