# IBIS is coming to select next generation Canon DSLRs [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 18, 2019)

> Last week we reported about a patent showing IBIS in a DSLR. We’ve known for quite some time that IBIS was coming to the next EOS R cameras, but that was the first indication that IBIS was also being developed for DSLRs. As always, just because something appears in a patent, doesn’t automatically mean it’ll appear in a released product.
> We have been told that Canon will “definitely” bring IBIS to “select” DSLRs in the near future. The source wasn’t sure which camera(s) would be getting IBIS, but the EOS 90D, which is coming in the next couple of months would be a good bet, especially if the EOS 90D is in fact replacing both the EOS 80D and EOS 7D Mark II.
> The other upcoming DSLR that should probably get IBIS is the EOS-1D X Mark III, a camera we expect to hear more about in the first half of 2020. Nikon is rumoured to be...



Continue reading...


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## prodorshak (Jul 18, 2019)

Canon is *******!
First page..

It looks like 90D will be my next camera of choice although I love my 77D.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 18, 2019)

Maybe they have solved the heat transfer issues. The sensor has to both move and transfer heat to a heat sink (usually the metal body). When shooting 4K video, heat is a huge issue. Live view as in mirrorless is constantly generating heat. As soon as sensors warm up, so do their noise levels, and if they get too warm, the camera must shut down to prevent damage.


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## unfocused (Jul 18, 2019)

I really don't care about IBIS, but it does sound the 90D is shaping up to be one heck of a camera. Hoping for more leaks over the coming weeks.


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## BeenThere (Jul 18, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Maybe they have solved the heat transfer issues. The sensor has to both move and transfer heat to a heat sink (usually the metal body). When shooting 4K video, heat is a huge issue. Live view as in mirrorless is constantly generating heat. As soon as sensors warm up, so do their noise levels, and if they get too warm, the camera must shut down to prevent damage.


As long as you can turn IBIS off when not needed (e.g., on a tripod), then noise can be controlled in special situations. With lens IS there probably won’t be a noticeable difference (IBIS on or off) in many other situations.


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## djack41 (Jul 18, 2019)

IBIS is a fragile feature. Seems unlikely for the 1DX3.


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## Kit. (Jul 18, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> As long as you can turn IBIS off when not needed (e.g., on a tripod), then noise can be controlled in special situations.


I don't see how turning IBIS off changes thermal conductivity of the attachment of the sensor to the body.


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## gzroxas (Jul 18, 2019)

Seems like it’s time to sell my 80D before it drops like crazy!


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## BeenThere (Jul 18, 2019)

Kit. said:


> I don't see how turning IBIS off changes thermal conductivity of the attachment of the sensor to the body.


The sensor could be parked in a better position for heat transfer when IBIS is off. Just speculating, but that is what I would try to do in the design.


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## zonoskar (Jul 18, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I really don't care about IBIS, but it does sound the 90D is shaping up to be one heck of a camera. Hoping for more leaks over the coming weeks.


I hope the internets are not setting us up for a disappointment.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 18, 2019)

djack41 said:


> IBIS is a fragile feature. Seems unlikely for the 1DX3.


Not necessarily, Olympus, Pentax, Sony, etc... all have IBIS in their cameras and its quite durable and rugged.


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## Kit. (Jul 18, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Not necessarily, Olympus, Pentax, Sony, etc... all have IBIS in their cameras and its quite durable and rugged.


Yeah, but how well would it cope with a 14fps mirror shock?


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## Chaitanya (Jul 18, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Yeah, but how well would it cope with a 14fps mirror shock?


Canon has implemented methods of reducing mirror shock in quite a few of their FF DSLRs, also if DSLRs from 10 years back had reliable sensor shift stabilisation then today's mechanisms should be much better in that regard.


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## Avenger 2.0 (Jul 18, 2019)

Looks like a lot of new technology and a big jump from the 80d. Will the 90d maybe cost as much as a 7d2? Or will they somehow cripple it?


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## CanoKnight (Jul 18, 2019)

Good to see Canon narrowing the gap to ten years.


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## YuengLinger (Jul 18, 2019)

prodorshak said:


> Canon is *******!
> First page..
> 
> It looks like 90D will be my next camera of choice although I love my 77D.


How very, very original. Nice first impression, repeating "Canon is *******" like so many other initial responders. Hope this inanity is going to be tiresome even to those posting it. Saying the same thing over and over, sarcastically or otherwise, begins to sound...troubled.


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## Kit. (Jul 18, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> Good to see Canon narrowing the gap to ten years.


Sixteen, actually. Sony Minolta A1 was introduced in July 2003.


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## bergstrom (Jul 18, 2019)

slightly off topic, but is there going to be a 6d3?


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## YuengLinger (Jul 18, 2019)

bergstrom said:


> slightly off topic, but is there going to be a 6d3?


There already is! https://www.scbt.com/scbt/product/blimp-1-antibody-6d3


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## LensFungus (Jul 18, 2019)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> Looks like a lot of new technology and a big jump from the 80d. Will the 90d maybe cost as much as a 7d2? Or will they somehow cripple it?


They mainly do this if a similar Canon camera has been released months before or will be released within a year. By killing the 7D series there is no other APS-C DSLR the 90D would have to fear. It will become the APS-C flagship.


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## Ozarker (Jul 18, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Yeah, but how well would it cope with a 14fps mirror shock?


I don't think you'll need to worry about 14fps on the 90D. Besides, mirror shock is over rated.  The 1DX Mark III will do fine.


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## Ozarker (Jul 18, 2019)

bergstrom said:


> slightly off topic, but is there going to be a 6d3?


No.


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## criscokkat (Jul 18, 2019)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> Looks like a lot of new technology and a big jump from the 80d. Will the 90d maybe cost as much as a 7d2? Or will they somehow cripple it?


More than likely it's designed to just slot in existing mounts that held the sensor before. The sensor chip is mounted to a pcb board, the ibis will be too.

Most of the technology with the camera outside the chip is all technology that has already been there in place in other bodies. The liveview capabilities are lifted from the R series at this point, the autofocus system is either lifted from the existing 1dxmkII or the 5dMkiv, and the FPS is rising to at least 7dMkII speeds which is most likely less than the sensor can actually do, to leave room for a R version down the road with faster fps when not using a mirror.

The development costs to put all of this in the camera will not be as great as the development costs of the components have already been paid for those other lines. This will allow the DSLR compete for years against mirrorless bodies it competes against like the rumored a6500. I'd also expect that most all mirrorless features will show up when using live view. Even eye focus is there on the cheapo SL3.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 18, 2019)

Looking forward to seeing how the IBIS performs! For years now I’ve been meaning to upgrade my 100mm f2.8 to the L IS version but haven’t ever gotten round to it. I might not have to bother after all now!


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## criscokkat (Jul 18, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Looking forward to seeing how the IBIS performs! For years now I’ve been meaning to upgrade my 100mm f2.8 to the L IS version but haven’t ever gotten round to it. I might not have to bother after all now!


Don't worry. Like the rest of us you'll have some GAS when you look at the eventual 100mm R mount version.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 18, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> Don't worry. Like the rest of us you'll have some GAS when you look at the eventual 100mm R mount version.


Oh my god don’t!


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 18, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Oh my god don’t!


(Be nice to see a 2:1 100mm R macro!)


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## djack41 (Jul 18, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Not necessarily, Olympus, Pentax, Sony, etc... all have IBIS in their cameras and its quite durable and rugged.


The 1DX line is built to entirely different standards of durability.


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## raptor3x (Jul 18, 2019)

djack41 said:


> The 1DX line is built to entirely different standards of durability.



Pentax and Olympus are pretty comparable in build quality on the higher end models. Sony, not so much.


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## wsmith96 (Jul 18, 2019)

gzroxas said:


> Seems like it’s time to sell my 80D before it drops like crazy!


Beat you to it!


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## slclick (Jul 18, 2019)

raptor3x said:


> Pentax and Olympus are pretty comparable in build quality on the higher end models. Sony, not so much.


Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?


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## sanj (Jul 18, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> No.


No is correct


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## sanj (Jul 18, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Looking forward to seeing how the IBIS performs! For years now I’ve been meaning to upgrade my 100mm f2.8 to the L IS version but haven’t ever gotten round to it. I might not have to bother after all now!


Will work just fine


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## flip314 (Jul 18, 2019)

gzroxas said:


> Seems like it’s time to sell my 80D before it drops like crazy!



Your 80D will still work just as well after this camera comes out.


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## AJ (Jul 18, 2019)

Interesting that both rumored IBIS cameras (90D, 1Dx3) are mirror-slappers.


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## keithcooper (Jul 18, 2019)

Putting IS in the 90D could give good engineering/manufacturing/reliability/software feedback for IBIS for pro mirrorless and a 1 series, where they need to get things right.

OK it's a very different camera, but a lot of useful info can come from putting a feature out there 'for real'


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## prodorshak (Jul 18, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> How very, very original. Nice first impression, repeating "Canon is *******" like so many other initial responders. Hope this inanity is going to be tiresome even to those posting it. Saying the same thing over and over, sarcastically or otherwise, begins to sound...troubled.


The world is full of mundane and silly things and maybe my comment was one of them, but that "Canon..ed" was my first time ever (If I remember correctly). But, I am curious to know what satisfaction it gives you to shout at silly things! You can....ignore them?


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## djack41 (Jul 18, 2019)

raptor3x said:


> Pentax and Olympus are pretty comparable in build quality on the higher end models. Sony, not so much.


Build quality is not the same thing as build design.


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## bergstrom (Jul 18, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> There already is! https://www.scbt.com/scbt/product/blimp-1-antibody-6d3



thank u doctor.


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## bergstrom (Jul 18, 2019)

sanj said:


> No is correct



are they just discontinuing the line and maybe doing a 5d5?


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## raptor3x (Jul 18, 2019)

slclick said:


> Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?



I'm not saying it's an equivalent to something like a 1DX, but a huge portion of the people buying them (the high end Olympus stuff at least, I don't think anyone is buying Pentax these days) are old guys taking the cameras on trips just like that. I switched over from a 5D3/1DX because I started shooting more high alpine sports and less low light stuff and the high end weather sealed crop gear really shines in those environments.


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## Aussie shooter (Jul 18, 2019)

slclick said:


> Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?


I took a 700d to Antarctica. Never missed a beat. Having said that however it was only for 2 weeks and we had very good weather. I have doubts it would last long periods in harsh conditions.


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## raptor3x (Jul 18, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Build quality is not the same thing as build design.



I'm not sure what distinction you're making but the weather sealing and body quality on the high end Olympus/Pentax bodies is very much equal to the 1D/D5 type cameras. It's just on the inside that they fall behind.


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## fox40phil (Jul 18, 2019)

Lets hope it will some sensor shifting options like Pentax with the K1!!! This would be awesome! Also for the next EOS R's!
For nice astroshots with 100s+ (Ultrawide lens)!


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## Yakodzun (Jul 18, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> Good to see Canon narrowing the gap to ten years.


I was so funny I even stopped to crush walnuts with my 5DS R!


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## Ozarker (Jul 18, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> The sensor could be parked in a better position for heat transfer when IBIS is off. Just speculating, but that is what I would try to do in the design.


You guys sound like the sensor is really floating around in there. It isn't. Very minute movements.


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## Etienne (Jul 18, 2019)

Canon announces the "wheel", millions of Canon users rejoice and prepare to upgrade from the pogo stick


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## Ozarker (Jul 18, 2019)

slclick said:


> Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?


This guy: https://my.olympus-consumer.com/blog/b/photography-journal_en/posts/antartica The lower end E-M10 too.


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## YuengLinger (Jul 18, 2019)

prodorshak said:


> The world is full of mundane and silly things and maybe my comment was one of them, but that "Canon..ed" was my first time ever (If I remember correctly). But, I am curious to know what satisfaction it gives you to shout at silly things! You can....ignore them?


I did ignore them the first 50 times!


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## Cochese (Jul 18, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> The sensor could be parked in a better position for heat transfer when IBIS is off. Just speculating, but that is what I would try to do in the design.


How much motion do you think this sensor is going to move. We're talking about a few pixels either way off center of shifting. Won't likely be much shifting.


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## Ozarker (Jul 18, 2019)

Cochese said:


> How much motion do you think this sensor is going to move. We're talking about a few pixels either way off center of shifting. Won't likely be much shifting.


An inch or two, this way or that.  The 1DX Mark III will have huge pixels to go along with huge imaginations.


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## Kit. (Jul 18, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> You guys sound like the sensor is really floating around in there. It isn't. Very minute movements.


If it needs any space to move at all, this space will be filled with air. Air is a very poor thermal conductor.


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## Ozarker (Jul 18, 2019)

Kit. said:


> If it needs any space to move at all, this space will be filled with air. Air is a very poor thermal conductor.


Somebody had better call and let engineering know this.  Tell'em about heat sinks. But seriously, I don't think the mechanism is attached directly to the sensor, rather, attached to the PCB the sensor is mounted to.


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## Jethro (Jul 18, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> As long as you can turn IBIS off when not needed (e.g., on a tripod), then noise can be controlled in special situations. With lens IS there probably won’t be a noticeable difference (IBIS on or off) in many other situations.


There's a recent patent application for an algorithm allowing the camera to choose between IBIS, lens-based or a combination or both for optimum results. Query whether there would be user options on limiting the choice, but it should certainly be possible.


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## raptor3x (Jul 19, 2019)

Cochese said:


> How much motion do you think this sensor is going to move. We're talking about a few pixels either way off center of shifting. Won't likely be much shifting.



It's way more than that, the sensors usually have a range of motion around 10-15% the sensor height.






and here's a demonstration of the system in the Sony mirrorless bodies.


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## FredEOS (Jul 19, 2019)

I don’t think that a patent implies that there will be a camera using the technology.
Canon is clearly showing that DSLR is over without making it official, and there will be no 90D or 1DxIII... but only mirrorless next gen camera with RF mount.
In the last 16 months canon released the m50, the R and RP, and now focusing on the RF lenses.
Does anybody really believe that L mount mirrored DSLR cameras are coming??? Lol guys wake up this is over !! Look at the competition and the market: this is OVER.
What’s coming imo are the EOS “R+” with 60mp to compete with A7r4, S1, Z7, GFX100, the EOS “Rx” with top features to replace 1DxII, the EOS M5ii with top features to replace the 80D and compete with a6400 and X-T3 in APS-C, all with RF mount (and EF adaptor to keep customers happy).
Let’s turn the page. I’ve never been happier since I replaced my 5D4 by the fantastic EOS R, and I’m excited with the better ones coming


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## Cochese (Jul 19, 2019)

raptor3x said:


> It's way more than that, the sensors usually have a range of motion around 10-15% the sensor height.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but my point is that they aren't moving a whole lot for it to matter much for cooling. The small amount they aren't moving isn't likely to house a better cooling mechanism that they couldn't implement otherwise.


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## tmroper (Jul 19, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Yeah, but how well would it cope with a 14fps mirror shock?


Good point. Have there been any DSLR's with IBIS? I only know of mirrolress bodies with it.


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## Mr Majestyk (Jul 19, 2019)

djack41 said:


> IBIS is a fragile feature. Seems unlikely for the 1DX3.


I think Nikon is rumored to put IBIS in the D6, so could be possible for 1DXIII. Anyway what's your basis of saying it's fragile?


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## clbayley (Jul 19, 2019)

I am convinced the upcoming 90D (or whatever it gets called) is going to be the head scratcher. It is going to be the trial ground for new tech...new sensor, IBIS, might even put the R mount on a mirrored camera (would the APS-C sensor accept the new flange distance?). The R mount still has some new connections we need to learn about, could be related to the combined stabilization.

Here is hoping it all comes together into a great package!


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## codynpatterson (Jul 19, 2019)

clbayley said:


> I am convinced the upcoming 90D (or whatever it gets called) is going to be the head scratcher. It is going to be the trial ground for new tech...new sensor, IBIS, might even put the R mount on a mirrored camera (would the APS-C sensor accept the new flange distance?). The R mount still has some new connections we need to learn about, could be related to the combined stabilization.
> 
> Here is hoping it all comes together into a great package!


Id be completely for this. I don't care if my camera has a mirror. If I want to use electronic shutter I can, if I want live view mode I just press the button. What I really want is the features of the mirrorless cameras. Don't give me an EF-s camera in an increasingly R mount world ha. 4k, ibis, dual card slot, R mount, even better low light performance than currently available, and most importantly unlimited record time.


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## Architect1776 (Jul 19, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Maybe they have solved the heat transfer issues. The sensor has to both move and transfer heat to a heat sink (usually the metal body). When shooting 4K video, heat is a huge issue. Live view as in mirrorless is constantly generating heat. As soon as sensors warm up, so do their noise levels, and if they get too warm, the camera must shut down to prevent damage.



Canon has developed micro small tubes to run Freon through to keep the sensor very cool at all times. This way it stays the same temp regardless of use or ambient temperature. What an amazing breakthrough.Think about it a sensor that is 50 degrees F whether it is 120 degrees F or -30 degrees F around it. Talk about cutting edge technology.


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## raptor3x (Jul 19, 2019)

Cochese said:


> Yeah, but my point is that they aren't moving a whole lot for it to matter much for cooling. The small amount they aren't moving isn't likely to house a better cooling mechanism that they couldn't implement otherwise.



Ah ok, IBIS isn't as big of a deal for heat transfer as people seem to imagine. The back of the sensor is sitting on a bunch of ball bearings so there's still plenty of heat conduction to the rest of the body.


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## unfocused (Jul 19, 2019)

I’m getting a kick out of the irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) ads that Google is serving up on this thread


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## Avenger 2.0 (Jul 19, 2019)

clbayley said:


> I am convinced the upcoming 90D (or whatever it gets called) is going to be the head scratcher. It is going to be the trial ground for new tech...new sensor, IBIS, might even put the R mount on a mirrored camera (would the APS-C sensor accept the new flange distance?). The R mount still has some new connections we need to learn about, could be related to the combined stabilization.
> 
> Here is hoping it all comes together into a great package!



Or maybe we are all wrong and it will be an upgraded 80D with just 4k and slight MP bump.


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## Ozarker (Jul 19, 2019)

clbayley said:


> I am convinced the upcoming 90D (or whatever it gets called) is going to be the head scratcher. It is going to be the trial ground for new tech...new sensor, IBIS, might even put the R mount on a mirrored camera (would the APS-C sensor accept the new flange distance?). The R mount still has some new connections we need to learn about, could be related to the combined stabilization.
> 
> Here is hoping it all comes together into a great package!


Yup. It won't have a mirror. APS-C 80D style body with no mirror, and an EVF. It will use EF-s and EF lenses. That will help keep the warehoused EF-s / EF lenses selling, make the crop sensor birders/wildlife folks happy, and use up already manufactured plastic body shells. In other words, a very low cost mirrorless speed demon while Canon catches up on the release of new non-L RF lenses. The internet features will be added to the R2 (along with a $600 price increase and deeper body). The RP will be dropped.

The 90D(?) will have to be something special to compete with the RP and even the R. The 7D Mark II is selling at $1,399 after a $250 instant rebate. Canon drops the magnesium structure of the 7D Mark II to help cover the cost of 5G internet capabilities. So mostly plastic body.


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## Ozarker (Jul 19, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Canon has developed micro small tubes to run Freon through to keep the sensor very cool at all times. This way it stays the same temp regardless of use or ambient temperature. What an amazing breakthrough.Think about it a sensor that is 50 degrees F whether it is 120 degrees F or -30 degrees F around it. Talk about cutting edge technology.


Nothing runs like a Trane  Seriously, I wonder how big the butane tank will be to power it? BIC sized, maybe? I hear Sony is going to use a micro cold fusion reactor that will also have IBIS to keep it stable.


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## yeahright (Jul 19, 2019)

don't all recent Canon cameras have the sensor dust removal feature upon startup and shutdown of the camera, which already moves the sensor w.r.t. the body in current models...?


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## gzroxas (Jul 19, 2019)

flip314 said:


> Your 80D will still work just as well after this camera comes out.


Yes, it will (and I really enjoy using it), but I was already planning an upgrade to Full Frame and combined with a good price I found and my graduation coming up, it’s a good time to do so before my previous gear (that I will have to sell since I’m not making a lot of money from photography) drops too much in price because of a new model coming out


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## Jethro (Jul 19, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I’m getting a kick out of the irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) ads that Google is serving up on this thread


Hmm - you do know they target those ads to individuals based on ...


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## Chaitanya (Jul 19, 2019)

slclick said:


> Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?


Olympus MILC used in Antarctica(though seems like they have Olympus sponsorship)
http://www.mishku.com/endoftheworld 

https://my.olympus-consumer.com/blog/b/photography-journal_en/posts/antartica 



bergstrom said:


> slightly off topic, but is there going to be a 6d3?


I thought EOS RP already supersedes 6D series and we might not see 6D series upgraded from now on.


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## Aussie shooter (Jul 19, 2019)

Jethro said:


> Hmm - you do know they target those ads to individuals based on ...


So what do all the midget escort ads I get mean?


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## max_sr (Jul 19, 2019)

slclick said:


> Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?



Photographers


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## Sparky (Jul 19, 2019)

raptor3x said:


> Pentax and Olympus are pretty comparable in build quality on the higher end models. Sony, not so much.


I had a Olympus OMD EM1 MKii and a Canon 1DXII. Both are well built cameras, but the Canon is a whole different ball game in terms of quality. Just look at the on/off switch on both the cameras for a start. The Olympus is a flimsy flap and the Canon much more solid. Both a really nice cameras, but everything on the Canon is built to be rugged. 

I have noticed that a lot of Canon 1DXiis are starting to appear on the used market. I think people are selling them in expectation of the new one and getting what they can before the price drops...


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## hamish (Jul 19, 2019)

Sparky said:


> I had a Olympus OMD EM1 MKii and a Canon 1DXII. Both are well built cameras, but the Canon is a whole different ball game in terms of quality



And price too. The Oly is $AUD2200, and the 1DX II $AUD 8200 (Australian dollary-doos).









Olympus OMD E-M1 Mark II Black Body Only


High-speed sequential shooting that changes the world of photography: Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II The OM-D E-M1 Mark II possesses high-speed performance that cannot be imitated. By developing the 20M Live MOS sensor together with the TruePic VIII image processor, not only has image quality...




michaels.com.au












Canon EOS 1DX II DSLR Body Only


Canon EOS-1D X Mark II, the new flagship DSLR engineered to put the ultimate combination of image quality, resolution and speed in the palm of your hand. Featuring a new 20.2 MP full frame CMOS sensor and new Al Servo AF III+, as well as 4K video capture up to 60p.This blend of power and...




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## max_sr (Jul 19, 2019)

Sparky said:


> I had a Olympus OMD EM1 MKii and a Canon 1DXII. Both are well built cameras, but the Canon is a whole different ball game in terms of quality. Just look at the on/off switch on both the cameras for a start. The Olympus is a flimsy flap and the Canon much more solid. Both a really nice cameras, but everything on the Canon is built to be rugged.
> 
> I have noticed that a lot of Canon 1DXiis are starting to appear on the used market. I think people are selling them in expectation of the new one and getting what they can before the price drops...



I would expect the 1DXII to be better built when it cost 4 times as much.


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## max_sr (Jul 19, 2019)

tmroper said:


> Good point. Have there been any DSLR's with IBIS? I only know of mirrolress bodies with it.



All the Pentax ones. And some of those Minoltas, before they were renamed to Sony.


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## Sharlin (Jul 19, 2019)

yeahright said:


> don't all recent Canon cameras have the sensor dust removal feature upon startup and shutdown of the camera, which already moves the sensor w.r.t. the body in current models...?



It's just tiny ultrasonic vibration. I don't think the sensor is mechanically coupled to the chassis.


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## MartinF. (Jul 19, 2019)

bergstrom said:


> slightly off topic, but is there going to be a 6d3?


I guess not. The guess around the Canon rumors community seems for the moment to ba a 1DX mkIII (2020) and probably a 5D mkV later (2021?). But who knows?. If they can make a 90D by now - they could also make a 6D mkIII in some years. However - I don't think so my self.
Canon has obviously not left the DSLR development yet, and they have also released new EF lenses (2018). But I guess we will the end of the DSLR era in 5 - not more than 10 years from now.

(I am having a 6D classic myself wonderful camera - but I am not upgradeing whithin the 6D line. My next upgrade will be a 5DmkIV or a upcoming mkV - and in 10 years time - when current EF lenses and bodies are very well used - then jump ship to EOS-R line and some few RF-lenses, and adaptor for the less used ones. I don't sell much of my used equipment. I use it a lot, and it gives scratches and so. So I tear most of it down, and keep it for good memories.


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 19, 2019)

LensFungus said:


> They mainly do this if a similar Canon camera has been released months before or will be released within a year. By killing the 7D series there is no other APS-C DSLR the 90D would have to fear. It will become the APS-C flagship.


If indeed true then in order to satisfy 7D MKII owners it will at least have to equal and better its features. i.e. high frame rate of at least 10 fps, fully weather sealed, twin card slots, joy stick. 

Or alternatively have a 7D MKII replacement in the R series whilst maintaining the 90D in the DSLR line-up.


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 19, 2019)

MartinF. said:


> I guess not. The guess around the Canon rumors community seems for the moment to ba a 1DX mkIII (2020) and probably a 5D mkV later (2021?). But who knows?. If they can make a 90D by now - they could also make a 6D mkIII in some years. However - I don't think so my self.
> Canon has obviously not left the DSLR development yet, and they have also released new EF lenses (2018). But I guess we will the end of the DSLR era in 5 - not more than 10 years from now.
> 
> (I am having a 6D classic myself wonderful camera - but I am not upgradeing whithin the 6D line. My next upgrade will be a 5DmkIV or a upcoming mkV - and in 10 years time - when current EF lenses and bodies are very well used - then jump ship to EOS-R line and some few RF-lenses, and adaptor for the less used ones. I don't sell much of my used equipment. I use it a lot, and it gives scratches and so. So I tear most of it down, and keep it for good memories.


I have the 6D and the 6D MKII, I also have the EOS R. In my mind the EOS R is the R series version of the 6D MKII. Whilst it may have an almost identical sensor to the 5D MKIV its no 5D camera the biggest issue being lack of joystick and the feeble joypad (don't get me onto the crap rear screen drag to focus). Its also not weather sealed to 5D levels. The RP is really a full frame rebel camera with the 6D MKII sensor (its like Canon have tried to up sell). Dont get me wrong the EOS R produces great pictures, but the user control set is deeply flawed by Canon standards and between the 5DS, 6D MKII and the EOS R the EOS R is my third choice camera. RF lenses however are a marked improvement over EF optics so far.


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## ArtisanCraft (Jul 19, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> I have the 6D and the 6D MKII, I also have the EOS R. In my mind the EOS R is the R series version of the 6D MKII. Whilst it may have an almost identical sensor to the 5D MKIV its no 5D camera the biggest issue being lack of joystick and the feeble joypad (don't get me onto the crap rear screen drag to focus). Its also not weather sealed to 5D levels. The RP is really a full frame rebel camera with the 6D MKII sensor (its like Canon have tried to up sell). Dont get me wrong the EOS R produces great pictures, but the user control set is deeply flawed by Canon standards and between the 5DS, 6D MKII and the EOS R the EOS R is my third choice camera. RF lenses however are a marked improvement over EF optics so far.



drag to focus is better for me in almost every situation. any other situations, I use the directional keys in conjunction with the rear screen drag to focus.


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## Yakodzun (Jul 19, 2019)

FredEOS said:


> I don’t think that a patent implies that there will be a camera using the technology.
> Canon is clearly showing that DSLR is over without making it official, and there will be no 90D or 1DxIII... but only mirrorless next gen camera with RF mount.
> In the last 16 months canon released the m50, the R and RP, and now focusing on the RF lenses.
> Does anybody really believe that L mount mirrored DSLR cameras are coming??? Lol guys wake up this is over !! Look at the competition and the market: this is OVER.
> ...


I wonder how can 60Mp 35mm camera compete with the 100MP GFX. I own 5DS R and Phase One IQ3 100 and can say the purpose of these cameras are absolutely different. But I’m mostly agree with you


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## slclick (Jul 19, 2019)

max_sr said:


> Photographers


Are you fun at parties as well?


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## MadisonMike (Jul 19, 2019)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> Looks like a lot of new technology and a big jump from the 80d. Will the 90d maybe cost as much as a 7d2? Or will they somehow cripple it?


Those are the biggest questions on this board. What will it be missing and how over priced will it be?


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## slclick (Jul 19, 2019)

Keyboard warriors call it crippling, Manufacturers call it differentiating. Crippling always makes me think that the complainer wants all or most high end features in a low end sale. Do you get pissed at the Ford Dealer that the Focus doesn't have the features of the Mustang? 

I know, I know, all you want is a mic jack right?


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## raptor3x (Jul 19, 2019)

Sparky said:


> I had a Olympus OMD EM1 MKii and a Canon 1DXII. Both are well built cameras, but the Canon is a whole different ball game in terms of quality. Just look at the on/off switch on both the cameras for a start. The Olympus is a flimsy flap and the Canon much more solid. Both a really nice cameras, but everything on the Canon is built to be rugged.
> 
> I have noticed that a lot of Canon 1DXiis are starting to appear on the used market. I think people are selling them in expectation of the new one and getting what they can before the price drops...



I shot the E-M1/E-M1ii alongside the original 1DX for quite some time and I would agree that the E-M1ii has a few lower quality switches like you mentioned and the memory card slot door isn't quite up to the standard of the 1DX/D5 but the E-M1X is every bit at the build level of the 1DX/D5.


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## FramerMCB (Jul 19, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Yeah, but how well would it cope with a 14fps mirror shock?


Well, in Olympus models they are fast buggers, shooting-wise, and are built like small tanks. Very rugged, especially the EM-1, EM-1 Mk II, and the new EM-1X. These models have very high frame rates. Of course they are also mirrorless and 4/3d's. The Pentax models are also built like tanks with the K-1 and K-II probably being the best built/most-rugged FF cameras available at this time. However, the Pentax models, while mirror-slappers, do not have high frame-rates.


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## FramerMCB (Jul 19, 2019)

slclick said:


> Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?


I would have zero qualms about taking a Pentax anywhere on the planet. The one exception - a volcano. But then I wouldn't go there either.


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## Don Haines (Jul 19, 2019)

raptor3x said:


> It's way more than that, the sensors usually have a range of motion around 10-15% the sensor height.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s a 4/3 sensor. Ten percent movement of that sensor is the same as 5 percent of a FF sensor, but even at 5 percent, we are still talking about 300 pixels, and that is way more than 3 pixels


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## Don Haines (Jul 19, 2019)

slclick said:


> Who is taking an Oly or Pentax to Antarctica?


Ummmmm.......

They are better sealed than anything that Canon makes, short of a 1DX2.

On many of those tours, you can kayak. An Oly is a great camera for in a kayak.


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## BeenThere (Jul 19, 2019)

slclick said:


> Keyboard warriors call it crippling, Manufacturers call it differentiating. Crippling always makes me think that the complainer wants all or most high end features in a low end sale. Do you get pissed at the Ford Dealer that the Focus doesn't have the features of the Mustang?
> 
> I know, I know, all you want is a mic jack right?


Crippling is what loan sharks do to you if you don’t pay them back.


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## unfocused (Jul 19, 2019)

FramerMCB said:


> I would have zero qualms about taking a Pentax anywhere on the planet. The one exception - a volcano. But then I wouldn't go there either.


You can take any camera to a volcano. It's leaving that causes problems.


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## max_sr (Jul 19, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Ummmmm.......
> 
> They are better sealed than anything that Canon makes, short of a 1DX2.
> 
> On many of those tours, you can kayak. An Oly is a great camera for in a kayak.



Shhhh. You can't say that in a Canon forum.


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## raptor3x (Jul 19, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> That’s a 4/3 sensor. Ten percent movement of that sensor is the same as 5 percent of a FF sensor, but even at 5 percent, we are still talking about 300 pixels, and that is way more than 3 pixels



Look at the second video showing the Sony IBIS RoM, it's also moving something like 10% of the sensor height.


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## FramerMCB (Jul 19, 2019)

tmroper said:


> Good point. Have there been any DSLR's with IBIS? I only know of mirrolress bodies with it.


Pentax...


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## justaCanonuser (Jul 19, 2019)

FramerMCB said:


> Pentax...


Plus the last MF43-DSLRs made by Olympus 9, e.g. E-620 and E-30, had IBIS already in the past decade. Sony copied the basic idea of IBIS from Oly and Pentax.


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## max_sr (Jul 19, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> Plus the last MF43-DSLRs made by Olympus 9, e.g. E-620 and E-30, had IBIS already in the past decade. Sony copied the basic idea of IBIS from Oly and Pentax.


 
No Sony bought it, when they bought Minolta, who invented it.


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## justaCanonuser (Jul 19, 2019)

max_sr said:


> No Sony bought it, when they bought Minolta, who invented it.


Was there any Minolta with IBIS out there before? I missed that one. A friend of mine had one of the last Minolta branded DSLR models and I don't remember it had IBIS.


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 19, 2019)

max_sr said:


> No Sony bought it, when they bought Minolta, who invented it.


Wrong. Sony bought into Olympus (its now exited most of its holding) and uses a system similar to Olympus.


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 19, 2019)

ArtisanCraft said:


> drag to focus is better for me in almost every situation. any other situations, I use the directional keys in conjunction with the rear screen drag to focus.


I find that if my nose touches the screen the focus moves its very annoying. I usually disable drag focus. The directional keys are slower to use than a joystick which has greater finesse. My main camera is the 5DS and the EOS R is the only Canon camera in 40 plus years that irritates me. The minute Canon bring out a professional R series camera with a toggle switch the EOS R will be traded.


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## Kit. (Jul 19, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> Was there any Minolta with IBIS out there before?


A1, A2, A7D, A5D. The "D" cameras were A-mount DSLRs.


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## unfocused (Jul 19, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> I find that if my nose touches the screen the focus moves its very annoying. I usually disable drag focus...



Do you know you can adjust what portion of the screen is used to drag the focus points?


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## slclick (Jul 19, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> I find that if my nose touches the screen the focus moves its very annoying. I usually disable drag focus. The directional keys are slower to use than a joystick which has greater finesse. My main camera is the 5DS and the EOS R is the only Canon camera in 40 plus years that irritates me. The minute Canon bring out a professional R series camera with a toggle switch the EOS R will be traded.


The only way I could deal with the touch and Drag AF on the M5 was to set it to just the right 1/3 of the screen. Not sure what other brands and models allow a partial setting like that but it saved me with the tiny ergonomics and such. I'm one of those waiting on future R models to see if I will buy into the system as well or stay with tyhe future 5D series. (Of which I know they will be around for some time)


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## Hector1970 (Jul 19, 2019)

Maybe I'm getting old fashioned. I don't like touch screen on a camera. 
I prefer a joystick.
Maybe if I tried it more I'd like it but Olympus put me off it.


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## slclick (Jul 19, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> Maybe I'm getting old fashioned. I don't like touch screen on a camera.
> I prefer a joystick.
> Maybe if I tried it more I'd like it but Olympus put me off it.


What Olympus put me off with was the menu system, simply horrid.


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## unfocused (Jul 19, 2019)

slclick said:


> The only way I could deal with the touch and Drag AF on the M5 was to set it to just the right 1/3 of the screen.


I've never used an M, so I don't know if the smaller body makes a difference, but I've found the touch focus one of my favorite features on the R. I've also set it for the right half of the screen. When I first picked up the R, I hated that it didn't have a joystick. Now, I hate that I have to rely on a joystick to move the autofocus points on my DSLRs.


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## raptor3x (Jul 19, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> Wrong. Sony bought into Olympus (its now exited most of its holding) and uses a system similar to Olympus.



That did occur, but Sony had IBIS in their cameras many years before that occurred and Minolta, which later became Sony's camera division, was the first to bring the technology to market. The first consumer ILC with IBIS was the Minolta 7D which was released in 2004 although I don't believe they invented the technology; I think it was Epson or HP that actually invented it. Olympus didn't introduce IBIS into an ILC until 2007 with the E-510.


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## raptor3x (Jul 19, 2019)

slclick said:


> What Olympus put me off with was the menu system, simply horrid.



It really is. They finally got around to ripping off the My Menu feature from Canon which helps quite a bit but they still have one of the worst, if not the worst, menu structures out of all manufacturers.


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## Ozarker (Jul 20, 2019)

slclick said:


> What Olympus put me off with was the menu system, simply horrid.


Truth!!!!


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## jolyonralph (Jul 20, 2019)

One thing you can be sure about with Canon is that they won't launch a technology that doesn't work. They are ultra cautious when it comes to leading edge stuff hence limiting 4k in no small part due to heat concerns. If they put IBIS in a flagship camera it will work and it will be solid and reliable.


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## Bert63 (Jul 20, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Looking forward to seeing how the IBIS performs! For years now I’ve been meaning to upgrade my 100mm f2.8 to the L IS version but haven’t ever gotten round to it. I might not have to bother after all now!



Funny I just did this. Took advantage of the recent sale and a Canon code to pick up the 100L 2.8 for $624. Very happy with the upgrade.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 20, 2019)

Bert63 said:


> Funny I just did this. Took advantage of the recent sale and a Canon code to pick up the 100L 2.8 for $624. Very happy with the upgrade.


Cool! How does it compare to the non L version? I’ve heard people say its on par sharpness wise but contrast is better. I’d certainly appreciate the weather sealing though!


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## scyrene (Jul 20, 2019)

FredEOS said:


> Does anybody really believe that L mount mirrored DSLR cameras are coming???



L mount?


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## Ozarker (Jul 20, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> So what do all the midget escort ads I get mean?


That you have very small hands and disposable income?


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## Ozarker (Jul 20, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> The RP is really a full frame rebel camera with the 6D MKII sensor (its like Canon have tried to up sell).


Upsell? The 6D Mark II was $2k at release. The RP is $1,299 and came with a free adapter and grip extension.  Seems like Canon gave everyone a huge price break. In another year the RP will probably be under $1k.


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## slclick (Jul 20, 2019)

scyrene said:


> L mount?








L-Mount | The universal lens bayonet for interchangeable lenses


The L-Mount is a lens bayonet developed by Leica Camera. It allows for optional combinations of interchangeable lenses and cameras made by Leica Camera, Panasonic and SIGMA.




l-mount.com


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## scyrene (Jul 21, 2019)

slclick said:


> L-Mount | The universal lens bayonet for interchangeable lenses
> 
> 
> The L-Mount is a lens bayonet developed by Leica Camera. It allows for optional combinations of interchangeable lenses and cameras made by Leica Camera, Panasonic and SIGMA.
> ...



Oh I know it's a thing, I couldn't tell if that was what the OP meant though, as it was so garbled, and if that is what was meant, what the relevance is here.


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## koenkooi (Jul 21, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Cool! How does it compare to the non L version? I’ve heard people say its on par sharpness wise but contrast is better. I’d certainly appreciate the weather sealing though!



My 100mm non-L was about 13 years old, so it might have degraded over time. The 100mm L I bought a few months ago is better pretty much every way, it's sharper in the center at MFD, the USM motor is quieter, it has IS (which isn't quiet) and the lens hood is both included and sturdier. The only downside for me is that I have to screw on the macrolite adapter to use the MT24 and MT14 flashes, the EF-s 60mm and 100mm non-L have those builtin. With the adapter mounted you can't use the lens cap :/

Since I alternate between the 100mm and MP-E 65mm a lot, for me, the new Laowa 100mm would have been a better choice since that goes from infinity to 2x, the 100mm L only to 1x, the MP-E can't do infinity.


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## stevelee (Jul 21, 2019)

unfocused said:


> You can take any camera to a volcano. It's leaving that causes problems.


I took my G7X II to Kilauea and Mauna Loa. Fortunately, I was in a helicopter at the time, and it was before the 2018 eruptions.


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## pj1974 (Jul 22, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Cool! How does it compare to the non L version? I’ve heard people say its on par sharpness wise but contrast is better. I’d certainly appreciate the weather sealing though!


I owned the Canon 100mm USM f/2.8 macro (non L) for about 7 years. It is a good lens, very sharp where it needs to be, great for macro use, and good balance of size/weight. Then about 2 years ago I bought the L version, and after owning both for several months, I sold my non-L on (as a 2nd hand). I only lost about $200 AUD for 7 years use, which I'm perfectly fine with.

The 2 main reasons I upgraded to L are:

more suitable as an event lens, for candids / portraits (to complement my 50mm f/1.8 STM). The non-L's AF is no where near as reliable for non-portrait work compared to the L. I can confirm this with 2 copies of the non-L, and using 4 different Canon DSLRs. AF is both faster and more accurate with the L. The L version AF locks on 90% of times at non-macro focal distances. The non-L got close about 70% of the time, but it was regularly not tack sharp, and would be quite off about 30% of the time. Image Stabilisation (IS) also helps for a lot of the event photography I do.
Image Stabilisation (IS) is really handy for some macro images (either at, or close to 1:1 magnification). I use a tripod for most of my 'really serious' macro work, but at times there are close-up and macro photos I want to capture where a tripod won't work (or I don't have time / or I'm hiking). So the IS really does help in certain macro images quite a lot.

I use a (cheap, but very effective) filter mounted (screw-on) led macro light. Bought it for about $20 from Hong Kong/China years ago. As that came with various filter sizes, my macro light works just as well on both lenses. 

Where Canon's non-L and L 100mm macro lenses were fairly similar are:

sharpness and overall image quality (perhaps a touch more sharpness to the L at certain apertures),
bokeh (though a bit better on the L),
size and weight (no big difference, but I prefer the non-L - size/weight as it's smaller / slightly lighter)
manual focus throw, from my experience, both work fairly similarly at macro levels

The non-L can be had very cheaply - on the 2nd hand market, and a few years ago, stock in stores. If either or both of the 2 reasons that I listed above are important to others, that may be motivation to upgrade. Weather sealing and build quality on the L is notably better, but the non-L isn't a slouch either. I've used it in various conditions, and it held up well, but yes, did end up showing the expected amount of wear and tear after almost a decade of quite regular use, but it wasn't much, as I'm careful with my gear.

Cheers

PJ


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## Jasonmc89 (Jul 22, 2019)

Thanks for the info!

I think you’ve convinced me! The main subject I use my 100mm for is frogs, reptiles and things like that so IS would be the biggest reason for me, along with the weather sealing. I’d miss my old 100mm though. I’ve had it the longest of all my current equipment and it’s taken some of my favourite images! 

Cheers!


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## Michael Clark (Jul 23, 2019)

yeahright said:


> don't all recent Canon cameras have the sensor dust removal feature upon startup and shutdown of the camera, which already moves the sensor w.r.t. the body in current models...?






Sharlin said:


> It's just tiny ultrasonic vibration. I don't think the sensor is mechanically coupled to the chassis.



Only the filter stack in front of the sensor moves in current Canon DSLRs. The sensor is, in fact, coupled to the chassis.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 23, 2019)

clbayley said:


> I am convinced the upcoming 90D (or whatever it gets called) is going to be the head scratcher. It is going to be the trial ground for new tech...new sensor, IBIS, might even put the R mount on a mirrored camera (would the APS-C sensor accept the new flange distance?). The R mount still has some new connections we need to learn about, could be related to the combined stabilization.
> 
> Here is hoping it all comes together into a great package!



Nope. The mirror for a 16mm tall sensor must be 22.62 mm in height. That does not leave room for the mirror to swing up flush with the top of the light box with a 20mm flange distance. The mirror would be protruding 2.62mm beyond the flange.


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## Don Haines (Jul 23, 2019)

slclick said:


> Keyboard warriors call it crippling, Manufacturers call it differentiating. Crippling always makes me think that the complainer wants all or most high end features in a low end sale. Do you get pissed at the Ford Dealer that the Focus doesn't have the features of the Mustang?
> 
> I know, I know, all you want is a mic jack right?


I don’t understand why any camera with Bluetooth would not support Bluetooth speakers/headphones/microphone


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## koenkooi (Jul 23, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I don’t understand why any camera with Bluetooth would not support Bluetooth speakers/headphones/microphone



While my sarcasm detector is reading "Maybe", I do like your way of thinking, supporting BT mics would be very handy.


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## Sharlin (Jul 23, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> Only the filter stack in front of the sensor moves in current Canon DSLRs. The sensor is, in fact, coupled to the chassis.



Huh, that's what I meant, and I *think* that's what I originally wrote, and then edited out a confusing double negative there, but in the process ended up inverting the meaning


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## Don Haines (Jul 23, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> While my sarcasm detector is reading "Maybe", I do like your way of thinking, supporting BT mics would be very handy.


Definitely not sarcasm.

I have several pairs of Bluetooth headphones, including a very nice pair with hard shells, lots of noise reduction, and active noise cancellation. When you shoot video at a musical performance it is nice to hear what the camera is recording, particularly on all those cameras that do not have a headphone jack, plus, I HATE BEING TETHERED TO THE CAMERA!

Bluetooth speakers has to be the lowest hanging fruit on the Bluetooth tree. Canon are not alone at having missed this one..... and if they can do a speaker, then they can do a mic.


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## koenkooi (Jul 24, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Definitely not sarcasm.
> 
> I have several pairs of Bluetooth headphones, including a very nice pair with hard shells, lots of noise reduction, and active noise cancellation. When you shoot video at a musical performance it is nice to hear what the camera is recording, particularly on all those cameras that do not have a headphone jack, plus, I HATE BEING TETHERED TO THE CAMERA!
> 
> Bluetooth speakers has to be the lowest hanging fruit on the Bluetooth tree. Canon are not alone at having missed this one..... and if they can do a speaker, then they can do a mic.



Bluetooth audio is one of the harder things to get right, but it is a purely software matter. My former coworkers are happy with the billable hours it generates in the automotive world 

The big issue with speakers is that the decent quality codecs have a lot of latency on both ends, so AV sync is hard. The hands free protocol is better (duh, that's what it's for), but has a noticably worse quality.


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## Quirkz (Jul 24, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> Bluetooth audio is one of the harder things to get right, but it is a purely software matter. My former coworkers are happy with the billable hours it generates in the automotive world
> 
> The big issue with speakers is that the decent quality codecs have a lot of latency on both ends, so AV sync is hard. The hands free protocol is better (duh, that's what it's for), but has a noticably worse quality.



Not just that, but the better codecs require licensing, adding $$. Which is why many cheap Bluetooth headsets sound like crap


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