# It's too bad...



## bauerman (Mar 3, 2014)

It's too bad that the only active thread in this EOS-M forum is a juvenile pissing match regarding the M system and what it woulda, coulda, shoulda been.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 3, 2014)

Well, that's only because the EOS M is a worthless little camera that shows how little Canon is able to innovate and how they fail to understand that mirrorless is the wave of the future…or maybe it's because the EOS M is a great little camera that delivers very good IQ by putting a large sensor in a small, well-constructed body with a great UI that also happens to be compatible with the best lens lineup in the industry.

Let us know when you figure out which is correct. ;D


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## bauerman (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm going with the latter obviously of the two scenarios presented above. 

Now I'm looking to get that nice 11-22 wide angle IS lens for an upcoming trip to the Grand Canyon....


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## wickidwombat (Mar 8, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Well, that's only because the EOS M is a worthless little camera that shows how little Canon is able to innovate and how they fail to understand that mirrorless is the wave of the future…or maybe it's because the EOS M is a great little camera that delivers very good IQ by putting a large sensor in a small, well-constructed body with a great UI that also happens to be compatible with the best lens lineup in the industry.
> 
> Let us know when you figure out which is correct. ;D


Also while the EF-M selection consists of only 3 lenses the 22mm f2 and 11-22 EF-M are stunningly good, compact and cheap, even the basic 18-55 is pretty respectable
The more I use the M the more I'm impressed by it


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## dcm (Mar 8, 2014)

bauerman said:


> I'm going with the latter obviously of the two scenarios presented above.
> 
> Now I'm looking to get that nice 11-22 wide angle IS lens for an upcoming trip to the Grand Canyon....



I'm in the same camp. Picked up the M to lighten the load when hiking, no regrets. Even with a full complement of lenses (22, 11-22, 18-55 and EF-S 55-250 IS STM), it's only about a third the weight and space of my 6D kit (40, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 F4 IS, 1.4x III) and gives me greater reach (17-400 equivalent vs 17-280). 

I sometimes want a longer lens on the trail and the 55-250 has been a pleasant surprise on the M. It's around twice the weight and size of the other zooms (including the adapter), quick focusing, silent, and is easily handheld - even at 250mm. An EF-M variant might save half the difference in weight and space from the other EF-M zooms if it ever arrives. And it will probably cost more so this will do until then.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 8, 2014)

dcm said:


> bauerman said:
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> > I'm going with the latter obviously of the two scenarios presented above.
> ...



nice how does the M go with the 55-250? got any sample shots from it?


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## bainsybike (Mar 8, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> The more I use the M the more I'm impressed by it



Me too.

Another lens that goes well with the M is the nifty fifty. Mounted on the adaptor, it's very much the same size and weight as the native zooms. Makes a great companion to the 11-22.


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## bauerman (Mar 9, 2014)

For you guys that have the 11-22mm - where are are able to pick one up? There are none available on the normal photo forums and Henry's and Vistek in Canada are out of stock. The only ones that I can find are on Ebay and they are over-priced and will take a month to get here.....

Let me know.


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## dcm (Mar 9, 2014)

bauerman said:


> For you guys that have the 11-22mm - where are are able to pick one up? There are none available on the normal photo forums and Henry's and Vistek in Canada are out of stock. The only ones that I can find are on Ebay and they are over-priced and will take a month to get here.....
> 
> Let me know.



I got mine from DigitalRev (Hong Kong). Arrived in about a week.


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## bauerman (Mar 9, 2014)

DCM - do you have a link for DigitalRev?


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## dcm (Mar 9, 2014)

bauerman said:


> DCM - do you have a link for DigitalRev?



If you haven't already googled it - http://www.digitalrev.com/


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## Albi86 (Mar 10, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Well, that's only because the EOS M is a worthless little camera that shows how little Canon is able to innovate and how they fail to understand that mirrorless is the wave of the future…or maybe it's because the EOS M is a great little camera that delivers very good IQ by putting a large sensor in a small, well-constructed body with a great UI that also happens to be compatible with the best lens lineup in the industry.
> 
> Let us know when you figure out which is correct. ;D



As it often happens, I guess the truth is in the middle.


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## bauerman (Mar 10, 2014)

dcm said:


> bauerman said:
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> > DCM - do you have a link for DigitalRev?
> ...



Holy moly - they have some nasty, nasty reviews on resellerratings.com

I luckily was able to grab one from another user in the US on a buy and sell board this morning. Reading the reviews of paperwork, extra fees and just in general hassle with receiving a package from Hong Kong - I am very relieved.


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## dcm (Mar 10, 2014)

bauerman said:


> dcm said:
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I understand the concerns and had seen the mixed reviews so I was prepared. 

I purchased two things from them, no problems so far. The first was a small purchase (<$40) a few months earlier to see how they would do. The second was the lens. Both arrived fine - new items, unopened, in original factory packaging and are working fine so far. I accept that support may be an issue, but I haven't had issues with my other Canon equipment. 

Receiving the package from Hong Kong is no big deal. It was packaged very well and shipped FedEx - easy to track. The experience is similar to online Apple purchases I make that are shipped directly from China. 

My only hassle was that one credit card company wouldn't deal with them since they were outside US and refused to accept the charge. Another card sailed through just fine. I use separate cards for online purchases so I can easily track them, no issues there yet.

YMMV :-\


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## wickidwombat (Mar 11, 2014)

bauerman said:


> dcm said:
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i've bought tons of stuff from digital rev

never had a problem


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## dcm (Mar 11, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> dcm said:
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Haven't been on a hike or gotten out to do any serious shooting with the 55-250 yet - it only arrived a few weeks ago. I'm still early on the learning curve with it, mostly target shooting in the yard at 250 for now to see what works and what doesn't. It's quiet and focuses fast. I'm still working on my technique for auto and manual focus. My M is setup with BBF like my 6D, but I do miss the small center point auto focus on the 6D. The M can miss on small targets against busy backgrounds that the 6D would nail. I have found using AF after zooming in to 5X or 10X gets me more hits on small targets. In manual focus (w/o AF or adjusting after auto focus) I find it easy to cradle the lens in my left hand with my thumb and forefinger rotating the narrow focus ring. I like the manual focus on the 55-250 better than the 70-200 F4 L IS, where it is harder to nail the focus manually.

Here's a some quick images of two backyard targets taken from my office window on the M at 250 (400 equiv) and the 6D at 280 (1.4x III). I shot with tripod to eliminate user issues and tried to match camera settings. These were shot in AV at f8 and ISO 100, the results at f5.6 and f11 are similar - exposures varies slightly. They are 100% crops in DPP to show an equivalent field of view - 1280x1280 on the M vs 946x946 on 6D. Otherwise they are straight out of the camera.

Hope to have some better samples in the future, but from what I see so far the issues will be more about technique and experience than equipment performance.


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## lw (Mar 11, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> nice how does the M go with the 55-250? got any sample shots from it?



Here's a few of mine using the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM version on my M
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lozwilkes/sets/72157636970298975/

I particularly like this one


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## dcm (Mar 11, 2014)

lw said:


> wickidwombat said:
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> > nice how does the M go with the 55-250? got any sample shots from it?
> ...



Nice photos. Saw these as part of my research that suggested this was a promising body/lens combo.


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## dcm (Mar 11, 2014)

dcm said:


> ...
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> They are 100% crops in DPP to show an equivalent field of view - 1280x1280 on the M vs 946x946 on 6D.
> 
> ...



FWIW: It's easy to determine equivalent field of view crops between different camera/lens combinations. Here's a simple formula that should help, with cd=crop dimension, fl=focal length, and sd=sensor dimension. 

*cd1 fl1 * sd1 
--- = ---------
cd2 fl2 * sd2*

The focal length needs to include the crop factor and extender, so in my case the crop dimension on the 6D image worked out like this once I decided to crop at 1280 on the M.

cd6D = 1280 * (1.4*200*5472) / (1.6*250*5184) = 946 (rounded)

The resulting magnification is 1.35x when you consider both focal length and sensor size so I have a bit more reach with the M combo.

I chose square crops so the image areas are 1280x1280 = 1,638,400 pixels on the M pixels versus 946*946 = 894,916 pixels on the 6D - not quite double the total number of pixels in the M version of the image. This accounts for the difference in file sizes.


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## sdsr (Mar 11, 2014)

bauerman said:


> It's too bad that the only active thread in this EOS-M forum is a juvenile pissing match regarding the M system and what it woulda, coulda, shoulda been.



Well, perhaps you could rescue that thread by explaining why the various complaints about it are unjustified, why what some of us perceive as flaws are, in fact, not flaws at all (or even virtues). For my part, I was impressed by the image quality, and if it had an EVF and performed (in terms of AF speed & accuracy etc.) anywhere near as well as, say, an Olympus OM-D, I would have kept it; but it doesn't, so I didn't. 

What, exactly, is wrong with expressing disappointment in a product (especially when it does such a good job in some respects)? If you aren't bothered by its perceived flaws - much of this is a matter of taste, of course - well, so much the better for you.

(The answer to Neuro's question, of course, is "both"!)


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## bauerman (Mar 12, 2014)

SDSR - not going anywhere near that other thread - its beyond rescue at this point and is just a day after day bitch and moan session about a camera MOST of the participants either never owned or do not own any longer. 

There are too few hours in the day from my perspective to spend time bashing product that you don't find to have a high level of value to your own photography. Period. And the people that engage in such activities are wasting their time from my perspective and could better utilize that time using their own equipment (that they do own and like) and or discussing the virtues of said equipment on other board or forums. 

Some of us regularly use the M and find it to be a valuable photographic tool - those are the people that this board is primarily for from my view. 

*The market will drive what the next M has or does not have from a feature set perspective - NOT the bemoanings of a couple of die hard detractors on this forum.*


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## wickidwombat (Mar 13, 2014)

here are a bunch of street photos at the bund 
all EOS-M Ai servo AF, 135 f2L wide open @f2


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## wickidwombat (Mar 13, 2014)

some more


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## wickidwombat (Mar 13, 2014)

and a few more


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## wickidwombat (Mar 13, 2014)

Using AI servo I found the AF significantly more responsive than single shot certainly not any slower than any of canons entry level cameras I have used in the past in single shot mode. I would get AF accuracy of the street candids I was taking to be at least 95% 

I've started using the 135L on my EOS-M ALOT especially when I have the 16-35 L on my 5Dmk3


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## wickidwombat (Mar 13, 2014)

also just got my 11-22 EF-M

got it from this guy from japan
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151239820486?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

only took 3 days to arrive here in china (not able to buy this lens in china : go figure) packing was great too

price is about $60 or so less than digital rev


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## bauerman (Mar 13, 2014)

Nice shots Wicked - all around. You have nicer glass than I!

My 11-22mm arrives today - excited to play around with an UWA on this body. Will post some examples once I get some processed.


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## BL (Mar 14, 2014)

the 11-22mm is a killer lens.... love shooting video with it too.

Sold my 16-35 II after getting this.


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## bauerman (Mar 14, 2014)

BL said:


> the 11-22mm is a killer lens.... love shooting video with it too.
> 
> Sold my 16-35 II after getting this.



I think I am in agreement - I just got it yesterday afternoon - but have loved the fist test shots I have taken with it so far. Looking to give it a real workout later this month on a trip to the Grand Canyon!


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## dcm (Mar 23, 2014)

dcm said:


> bauerman said:
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Followup - 

I got my custom's invoice for the EF-M 11-22 from DigitalRev in the mail from Fedex today. No surprise since I'm familiar with international shipping - built a system to track it for a large multinational corporation many moons ago. 

Fedex handles it all quite well - only tacking on a $6.50 advancement fee to the $10.33 customs duty (2.3% of value). The advancement fee covers Fedex expenses for processing it and allowing entry (3 weeks ago) prior to collecting payment from me. They already paid for it to enter the country and I am now reimbursing them. 

Given the nightmares I have seen in past international shipping I have to say this went pretty well. I would do it again.


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