# UPGRADING 7D to FF Please help!!!



## dvky (Dec 19, 2012)

Hello there, 

I have originally purchased the 7D back in 2010 and now I feel like it's time to upgrade to a FF 
because I feel limited buy the 7D performance. 

Currently, there are three FF bodies that seems to be in my range. The 5d mk iii / 6d / 5d mk ii 
However I would like some professional feedback from those who actually make income and works in
this industry. 

Therefore coming from the 7D, it seems that I will personally have a dreadful time and 
be unhappy with the autofocus system that the 6d and 5d mk ii offers. The reason I'm still debating whether or not to purchase the 5d mk iii is because I also want to invest on glass so it would be a plus if I could spend 
more on that. Will the 5d mk iii autofocus system and iso capabilities alone be worth purchasing it over the other two models? Or will I be marginally satisfied by the image results compared to the 7d although compensating 
the AF system of the 6d and 5d mk ii.

I'm trying to work in the industry of wedding and portrait photography mainly but on the side fashion and would 
also like some professional opinion on lens choices. The new 24-70 seems to be without a doubt a great 
decision to go with the 5d mk iii with the versatility of zoom range but I'm trying to go primes because I also
want to be more creative when and with limited zoom capabilities having to move and pre-visualize before a photoshoot. More leaning towards the 24 f/1.4L or 28 f/1.8 || 50f/1.4 || 85 f/1.8 
I understand this may have been already discussed in another thread but from other professional photographers that I've talked with, seem to say that the 50 1.2 and 85 1.2 AF just isn't good and heavy for a long period of time and that they preferred the 1.8 even though it's what around 1.2 stops down. 

The current glass that I have are EF-S 10-22 || EF-S 15-85 || 50 1.8 || EF 70-200 2.8 IS II 
Would greatly appreciated for opinions and feedbacks.

Thanks in advance! ;D

Cheers


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## CharlieB (Dec 19, 2012)

For weddings, don't get too hung up on equipment.

For years, I shot weddings with a Hasselblad, 60mm and 80mm lenses (like a 35 and a 50 in 35mm format). One flash in a medium (18") camera mounted box. Worked, worked well, hardly ever an issue. Every so often I'd have to grab a 2x and shoot the 80mm at 160mm for a portrait session at a wedding. Worked just fine.

The vast majority of wedding venues will work well with moderate wide to moderate tele - so, while I've not done it (yet), I would not feel at all undergunned with my 5DmkII and a 24-105L and a flash in a box <--- gotta have, its just perfect for wedding portraits.

For fashion... all bets off... you can go for any look or catchy angle that suits the attire, locale and models. I've been at shoots where most of it was shot with a 300/2.8 and 200/2.8... and those were full head to toe shots. Other times, you shoot close. Outdoors a lot of times you fly a silk for lighting and a small flash set to barely fill.

Going with something in the medium range for lenses is probably best, because you can rent anything out of the ordinary.

I'd not feel bad using a 5DmkII for fashion or weddings, but... the 6D is probably better - can't say, have never seen one. If you have the $$ go for the 5DmkIII, but really.. I'd rather put the money into lighting than camera bodies.


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## Badger (Dec 19, 2012)

It seems undisputed that if Wi-Fi and GPS aren't that important to you, and money is no object the 5DIII is probably the way to go. You won't be disappointed in the downgrade in the focusing system of the 6D. (which is just fine as far as I'm concerned). Yes, the 6D does better focusing in low lighting, but that doesn't mean the 5DIII is bad.
The only camera I might leave off the list is the 5DII. It would seem that both the 6D and 5DIII are upgrades to the II.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 20, 2012)

sell the EF-S glass
get the 5Dmk3 and a 16-35 mkII

this lens and the 70-200 you already have will do everything you need for a while and do it extremely well
plus you have the 50 1.8 which is still respectable from f2.2 and narrower

the progaramable DoF button to enable servo on the fly is just brilliant for any situation where you are switching from shooting stationary people to people suddenly moving. ie weddings.

down the track look at the sigma 85 f1.4 and the sigma 35 f1.4 (as soon as my local store has one i'm buying this) on the 5D bodies the sigma 85 is faster focusing than the canon 1.2

I would hold off on getting a 50mm just yet and wait and see what comes of the canon 50 f1.4 IS rumour


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## nehemiah (Dec 20, 2012)

I upgraded from the 7D to the 5D3 upon release of the 5D3 (paid the full $3499). I still have the 7D as well. I also have a mix of primes/zooms (100L macro, 85 1.8, 16-35L II, are my main lenses).

Since I was in almost the same boat you have, I think I can accurately diagnose your condition. You have what I have. Dx: Upgradeitis.

It works like this. You have the 7D. It's a wonderful camera. It takes great photos. But you see the posts where the full-frame has this out of this world image quality. And think of the true wide angle shots you would be able to get. And the ISO and low light performance. 

Well the truth is . . . it's fun upgrading. The 5D3 is a GREAT camera, and I love it. However, if I were truly honest, I could have still done fine with the 7D. It's also a great camera. But upgradeitis is not curable. I don't think you'll be able to not upgrade without continually wondering whether your shots could have been more fantastic with the 5D3. So go ahead and do it and enjoy it and don't feel guilty. It's ok, many of us do it. And right now the price seems very good -- can't imagine it will go much lower for a long while.

Now, imagine the shots I could take with that 135 2L that's on sale for $900 . . . They talk about that buttery bokeh . . .


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## CharlieB (Dec 20, 2012)

I think I'm working in reverse....

I had the 5Dii first, then got a 7D.

Since then, the 7D has been the go-to camera for most occasions - which are social events (25-500 people). 

I like the built in flash on the 7D, and I don't mind it not being FF.

I still use the 5Dii, and find that the corrections to the PictureStyles are more drastic with the 5Dii than the 7D. That is, the 7D might get two units of extra saturation, while the 5Dii gets only one (or none).


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## serendipidy (Dec 20, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> Since I was in almost the same boat you have, I think I can accurately diagnose your condition. You have what I have. Dx: Upgradeitis.



LOL ;D...highly infectious worldwide epidemic. I am in the early stages myself. Dreaming of one day upgrading to FF 5Dmk3 from 7D too. As an amateur I don't know why I need it but I just feel like I must


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## rpt (Dec 20, 2012)

serendipidy said:


> nehemiah said:
> 
> 
> > Since I was in almost the same boat you have, I think I can accurately diagnose your condition. You have what I have. Dx: Upgradeitis.
> ...


LOL! ;D

I got hit by that bug this year in April.

The 5D3 is a great camera. I love it. Why don't you rent it for a while and decide.


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## Richard8971 (Dec 20, 2012)

I have both the 7D and the 5D2 and my 7 sees more action than my 5D2. They both have features that are better than the other but the speed of the 7 keeps me coming back, not to mention the great images it takes. 3 grand + for the 5D3 is hard to swallow. 

I have friends who own the 7D, 5D2 and 5D3, and they are not convinced that the 5D3 is all that and a bag of chips. It's a wonderful camera and if someone was looking for a first-time purchase? Well, that's a hard one to choose, but if you already own a 7D I would suggest better glass. Good glass is going to take you farther than any camera body can, regardless of the camera body it's mounted to.

Like I said, I have L glass and I still find myself grabbing my 7 when I know I may have only one chance to get that perfect shot. It has never let me down, it's an awesome camera.

D


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## helpful (Dec 20, 2012)

I agree with those above who find the 7D more useful than the 5DII.

The 7D's only significant shortcoming is its crop sensor with 2009 technology inside.

Not unless you get a 5D3 or 1DX will you find a camera more capable of actually letting you take pictures than the 7D. So you will be very disappointed with anything less.

I have yet to try my 6D for full action sports, for instance basketball with a 70-200 II attached. Theoretically, maybe the middle point on the 6D might be able to do it. A lot of times I use four-point expansion on my 1Dx now, so maybe the extra big, extra sensitive point on the 6D will work "like" that, although I wouldn't say "similarly." I just have to wait until I get to something other than a big game, and I've only had big games in the past two weeks that I've had my 6D.

Back in 2010 I finally just sold my 5DII after using a 7D versus a 5DII for a couple of weddings and a few events, and even in those scenarios, I felt that the 5DII made it so much harder for me to take the photos, compared to the 7D, that it was worthless despite the extra image quality offered. So I would give that as my advice, that of all possible options, not to "upgrade" from the 7D to the 5DII. Camera-wise, the 7D is leagues ahead of the 5DII. I know there's a lot of people loving the 5DII, but if they had the experience with 7Ds that I have had, they would understand what I'm saying.

Maybe the 6D is a viable option, especially if you don't do sports. From my experience so far, the 6D is excellent for everything other than sports, and it's much more professional feeling and acting than the D600. Anything above ISO 1600 is also much better quality than the D600.

*** Update ***
Many things that I get paid for could be done in a pinch with a 5D3 and your existing 70-200 II and the new Sigma 35mm 1.4. Besides sports, the 6D would be very good as well. If you are willing to part with your EF-S lenses, maybe you could get the 6D and the 35mm 1.4. You could be an outstanding professional in many areas with a 6D, 35mm 1.4 Sigma, and 70-200 II Canon combo.

For a cheap assignment today, that was all I used, in fact--my 6D with the 35mm and my 5D3 with the 70-200mm II. There were moments I wished my 70-200mm would have been a 135mm f/2, but I survived and got photos everyone will be happy with. There was never a moment I would have found any use the 10-22 or 15-85, nor is there in almost all situations.


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## dvky (Dec 20, 2012)

Woah! Thank you all for the wonderful feedback and personal opinions. 

It has always been my priority to upgrade lenses before the body but I truly feel that the 7D images 
are very usable and I love the camera for various reasons but the time has come to get the bigger brother.

And as for glass, I would of course enjoy the L glasses, however I still have to justify and have sufficient 
income in order to purchase them. Unfortunately, I have moved to Brazil and the lens renting community here just blows compared to the US and Canada, therefore, haven't had the best chance to try out new gears and electronics in general. Tax here is just absurd and makes me want to puke. 

All in all, I'm very convinced switching to the 5d mk iii and start up with some basic primes. 



CharlieB said:


> I'd not feel bad using a 5DmkII for fashion or weddings, but... the 6D is probably better - can't say, have never seen one. If you have the $$ go for the 5DmkIII, but really.. I'd rather put the money into lighting than camera bodies.



I currently own the 580EX and not very comfortable or well acquainted with flash per say, but does the 600EX make a heck of a difference compared to it's predecessor? 

Thank you all once again! 
Cheers


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## phixional ninja (Dec 20, 2012)

dvky said:


> All in all, I'm very convinced switching to the 5d mk iii and start up with some basic primes.



I wanted to wait to chime in, since I'm not a professional, but I pulled the trigger on upgrading from the 7D to the 5D3 yesterday, and couldn't be happier.

I passed over the 5D2 and 6D because I had concerns about their respective autofocus flexibilities compared to the 7D, and while I'm sure I could have used either to get some great shots, after being so used to the 7D AF, the AF on the 5D3 just feels right, it feels like home.

A home that has gotten a large expansion to the kitchen and a new porch, that is.


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## FatDaddyJones (Dec 20, 2012)

I've seen awesome photographs that were shot with an iPhone. I've seen crap from cameras and lenses 
that cost thousands upon thousands of dollars. If you can't take good shots with your 7D, your pictures 
won't look much better on the 5D3. There is no such thing as a professional camera. There are professional
photographers. The equipment you have doesn't make you professional. It can only expand or limit your
creativity. Blah, blah, blah... we've heard that a thousand times.

I shoot with a 7D. I caught that bug that's going around too. I just bought a 5D3 that is supposed to arrive 
tomorrow.  I was going to sell the 7D and my EF-S lenses, but after second thought... it's just too good a camera
to get rid of. Plus, I won't have to miss my long lenses being 1.6x longer. 

Let me help you out.... DO IT! Order one now! You won't be sorry. You'll be happy you did. There's this big, black, shiny,
round button on the 5D3 that osmotically transforms the shooter into a full frame photographer. It's like magic. Yup, I'm
the little red guy sitting on your shoulder. The little guy with the white robe and halo... he's over there shooting with a
5D3 already.


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## JPAZ (Dec 20, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> Since I was in almost the same boat you have, I think I can accurately diagnose your condition. You have what I have. Dx: Upgradeitis.



There is only one definitive cure for this disease, radical surgery. If you can afford it, cut out all remnants of the crop sensor and transplant a 5diii. The prices have dropped. Otherwise, you'll never be in remission.


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## M.ST (Dec 20, 2012)

If you are in fashion and weddings buy the 5D Mark III with the new EF 24-70 f/2.8 II L lens.


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## bycostello (Dec 20, 2012)

in what way do you feel limited?


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## roadrunner (Dec 20, 2012)

dvky said:


> Woah! Thank you all for the wonderful feedback and personal opinions.
> 
> It has always been my priority to upgrade lenses before the body but I truly feel that the 7D images
> are very usable and I love the camera for various reasons but the time has come to get the bigger brother.
> ...



I was in the same boat as you. Went from a 7D to a 5DIII. I've rented the 5DII and 5DIII several times before making my purchase. The 7D is such an amazing camera, with it's only drawback being the sensor, that I knew anything less than the 5DIII would feel like a downgrade. I feel like you may regret your decision if you buy anything less. Then again, I don't know if you are keeping or selling your 7D (I kept mine).

As for the 600RT, it depends on what your goal is. If you know you will be using wireless off camera flash, then it may make sense to get the radio flash. I don't have any experience with it though, as I used my 580 EX IIs and 2 430EX IIs with pocketwizard flex TT5s, and that's a fairly expensive and sometime finicky setup. So it really just depends on how you want to use your flash. 

(PS. Wireless off camera flash is the way to go. Just sayin'. Once you start seeing how great your lighting can look with modifiers and the freedom to move your flash wherever you want without tripping over cords, you will soon have a case of lighting equipment upgraditis as well)


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 20, 2012)

Badger said:


> It seems undisputed that if Wi-Fi and GPS aren't that important to you, and money is no object the 5DIII is probably the way to go. You won't be disappointed in the downgrade in the focusing system of the 6D. (which is just fine as far as I'm concerned). Yes, the 6D does better focusing in low lighting, but that doesn't mean the 5DIII is bad.
> The only camera I might leave off the list is the 5DII. It would seem that both the 6D and 5DIII are upgrades to the II.



+1


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## ghstark (Dec 20, 2012)

The 5Dmk3 is the way to go for Weddings and any paying job.I have both the mk2 & mk3 Image quality they are the same in my eyes but as a working Wedding Photographer Myself the twin memory Slots is very important instant backup and for Weddings this is now a must.I had a card fail lucky for me it had 7 shots on it only so i can't say enough how important the twin card CF/SD is. After you have a card fail that brings that home big style..Also the mk3 is nicer camera to use feels better in the hand imo.


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## BrandonKing96 (Dec 20, 2012)

Don't forget that your 10-22 and 15-85 become useless on full frame. I suggest selling them and selling your 7D, then purchasing a 5D mark III And some glass for replacement. 

You can get a decent quality mark I 24-70 f/2.8 for under $1500 and if you can't afford a 16-35 f/2.8, perhaps a 17-40 would do until you make the money up for a 16/35. 

sometimes upgrading can seem complicated. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible myself, but I spend more money doing so (over a long span of time). 

I suppose the best you can do is play around with lenses on your 7D for a bit, and then if you feel the need to actually upgrade to a 5D 3/2 or 6D, just play around with those. It's also about what you're comfortable with.


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## RLPhoto (Dec 20, 2012)

If you love the 7D, you'll hate the 5D2 or the 6D. Save the cash and get the mk3. It won't limit you later on.


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## dvky (Dec 20, 2012)

bycostello said:


> in what way do you feel limited?



With the 7D I felt limited with the final image quality especially having to take most of the pictures late afternoon and continuing until night with no natural light. 
Having seen the 7D prints and 5d mk iii prints, the 7D sure falls behind. Not that it's not usable, but I would like to deliver a better final product for the client. 
Don't get me wrong, I love my 7D, it's fast burst and that extra reach is amazing but all I want to see is the FF capabilities and advantages over the crop sensor. 

In the meantime, I don't think I'll be able to sell my EF-S glasses or the 7D due to my current location BUT I would still like to keep my 7D as my backup camera. 



roadrunner said:


> As for the 600RT, it depends on what your goal is. If you know you will be using wireless off camera flash, then it may make sense to get the radio flash. I don't have any experience with it though, as I used my 580 EX IIs and 2 430EX IIs with pocketwizard flex TT5s, and that's a fairly expensive and sometime finicky setup. So it really just depends on how you want to use your flash.
> 
> (PS. Wireless off camera flash is the way to go. Just sayin'. Once you start seeing how great your lighting can look with modifiers and the freedom to move your flash wherever you want without tripping over cords, you will soon have a case of lighting equipment upgraditis as well)



Thanks for your feedback, I guess I'll have to do more experimenting with flash and then see how it goes.


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## iaind (Dec 20, 2012)

I already have a 5d2 and tried out both 6d and 5d3. 
6d felt small 6xx size but performed well considering specs. 5d3 outshone it . Unless you need wifi or gps go for 5d3. I am awaiting arrival of mine c/w grip and 600rt.


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## dvky (Dec 20, 2012)

iaind said:


> I already have a 5d2 and tried out both 6d and 5d3.
> 6d felt small 6xx size but performed well considering specs. 5d3 outshone it . Unless you need wifi or gps go for 5d3. I am awaiting arrival of mine c/w grip and 600rt.



yeah WIFI and GPS aren't a game breaker for me. would be nice with it but can live without it and prefer the idea of dual card slots and being able to back up. 

Thanks!


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## bholliman (Dec 20, 2012)

I just pulled the trigger and purchased a 6D from Adorama. I also own a 7D and was looking for a FF upgrade, primarily for landscape and family shots around the house.

I was leaning toward a 5D3, but tried out both cameras at a local store and preferred the 6D's size and price. Since I plan to keep the 7D for sports and wildlife photography, fast shutter speed and lots of AF points are not high on my priority list. I actually perfer the simplified AF system on the 6D since i normally focus with the center point, lock and recompose my shots anyway. The remote control possibilities with a phone or iPad via wifi are a nice feature also. The money I saved with the 6D can be applied toward my next lens or accessory purchase.

Your decision may be different if you weigh the two cameras features differently. For me, the 6D is a really good fit.


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## bycostello (Dec 30, 2012)

dvky said:


> bycostello said:
> 
> 
> > in what way do you feel limited?
> ...



so you are looking for iso performance, ff or crop is really irrelevant.


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## dsporter (Dec 30, 2012)

nehemiah said:


> I upgraded from the 7D to the 5D3 upon release of the 5D3 (paid the full $3499). I still have the 7D as well. I also have a mix of primes/zooms (100L macro, 85 1.8, 16-35L II, are my main lenses).
> 
> Since I was in almost the same boat you have, I think I can accurately diagnose your condition. You have what I have. Dx: Upgradeitis.
> 
> ...



This is perhaps one of the greatest posts I've ever read in a forum. I'd like to share it with my wife so she'll understand my addiction to upgrading camera gear. I envy those photographers that hang on to their cameras until it quits on them...that's something I can't do.

I recently went from the 60D to the 6D and wasn't very happy with the AF being able to keep up with my kids. I tried fiddling with all the various settings and wasn't content with the results. I lost sleep over the thought of exchanging it for the 5D Mark III because of the difference in costs. I debated about waiting until the next 7D arrives or just picking up a 7D since they're so cheep now. Finally, after reading this thread I went back and got the Mark III. I could not be happier with the decision. The best part was I forgot about some gift certificates I had and was able to get the Mark III for only $2795. That was awesome.


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## dickgrafixstop (Dec 30, 2012)

Equipment Acquisition Syndrome is a mental and a fiscal condition. If you're satisfied with the results
of the 7D and money's burning a hole in your pocket - buy glass. Full frame and crop frame really don't make a difference until you're printing 30X40 or bigger. I'd buy the 135F2L if I really had to 
blow a thousand bucks, or the older 100 f2.8 macro and save the difference. The 24L might help or
the 35L if you want to go another $1500 or so - or for the price of both of them you could get your
5DIII - or either one of them an a backup 7D body - or wait a month or so and see what the 7DII
brings to the market. Nice thing about digital photography - the longer you wait the better your choices at any given dollar point.


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## FatDaddyJones (Jan 2, 2013)

bycostello said:


> so you are looking for iso performance, ff or crop is really irrelevant.



Sure it's relevant. A full frame body is going to deliver better ISO performance than a crop, if you're comparing the bodies that he's looking at (6D and 5D3 vs 7D). It's this low light capability that convinced me to get the 5D Mark III, and not necessarily "upgrade" but add it to my kit alongside the 7D. Both are great camera and have their own respective uses. They're great together.


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## nickorando (Jan 2, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> If you love the 7D, you'll hate the 5D2 or the 6D.



Really? Remember what the OP wants the camera for:

"I'm trying to work in the industry of wedding and portrait photography mainly but on the side fashion"

The 5D II has been very successful in these areas, far more so than the 7D, and the 6D has the added strength of low-light AF that actually works - maybe even better than the Mk III. I love my 7D, but I love both the Mk II and the 6D a lot more!



> Save the cash and get the mk3. It won't limit you later on.



I wouldn't necessarily argue against that, though.


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## RLPhoto (Jan 2, 2013)

nickorando said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > If you love the 7D, you'll hate the 5D2 or the 6D.
> ...



I also remember the biggest complaints from others and myself for just about any shooting was the AF. Unless of course, you like the 20D AF. 

The 5D2 was only more successful because it was FF+resolution, and for no other reason. The 7D is a better camera and if you liked everything about the 7D, you find the 5D2 archaic.


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## bdunbar79 (Jan 2, 2013)

I cannot recommend the 7D for wedding photog. Get a 6D or 5D Mark III. Well, get a 5D Mark III if you can afford it.


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## FatDaddyJones (Jan 3, 2013)

bdunbar79 said:


> I cannot recommend the 7D for wedding photog. Get a 6D or 5D Mark III. Well, get a 5D Mark III if you can afford it.



As long as the lighting isn't too bad, the 7D does just fine. It's a great second camera, and you might just need that extra reach. I've shot a few weddings with my 7D, no problem. I know an awesome professional photographer that shoots exclusively with a Rebel XSI. It takes a lot more than megapixels and ISO performance to make a great photo.


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## shtlens (Jan 4, 2013)

Ok, same question - I've had 7D for 2yrs+ and now I would like to go FF. At the moment I'm just hobbyist, so 5d3 is quite off my price range (though it's great body).

My main subject is portrait/fashion photography, so mainly still pictures, or with a little bit of movement. My main concern about 6D is the lack of AF-points sensitivity - only 1 cross-type in 6D vs. all 19 in 7D. 

I use non-center af-points quite often as I use high-aperture lenses (50/1.4) and I don't want to loose my focus by recomposing image after focusing.

So is here anybody who really can compare AF on these two specific bodies?


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## bdunbar79 (Jan 4, 2013)

FatDaddyJones said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot recommend the 7D for wedding photog. Get a 6D or 5D Mark III. Well, get a 5D Mark III if you can afford it.
> ...



Oh no, I wasn't saying it can't be done or people don't do it. It just is not my recommendation. I admit I have a lens selection that prohibits me from a reach problem, so I am able to shoot everything I do on FF.


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## silversurfer96 (Jan 4, 2013)

If it's within your budget, just go for 5D3 and don't look back. I have both, but 7D is getting less of the light now. I love the AF points on the 7D and couldn't settle with anything less, which completely ruled out 5D2 and 6D. 1DX is way out of my price point and would not even consider it until I have some type of photo businesss. That was my reasoning... Otherwise, I would have been completely satisfied with the 7D. You will have the best of both world. Just my two cents.


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## BrandonKing96 (Jan 6, 2013)

Just think about it.. if you use it at many gigs, the 5D mark III will basically pay itself off.


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