# “Pro” EOS R camera coming in March 2020? [CR0]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 21, 2019)

> A confusing new rumor is hitting the gear sites about a “pro” EOS R camera.
> This rumor suggests that a 60mp “Pro” EOS R camera with a similar feature set and an EOS-1 level camera will be announced ahead of the Photography Show 2020 in March of 2020.
> There are a couple of issues and confusion about this report.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## mb66energy (Oct 21, 2019)

Maybe some teasing of the camera before it is displayed at the Photokina end of May in cologne on other shows?

If this camera includes Eye AF (the one which evaluates the eye position to set the AF spot), gets a sensor with overall excellent quality including a very clean 15 MPix full color mode (60MPix/4) and an advanced IBIS system it might be revolutionary and then they could stretch the introduction to get more attention ... because of a well rounded revolutionary product.


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## Quarkcharmed (Oct 21, 2019)

> take this report with a huge grain of salt.


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## canonnews (Oct 21, 2019)

Yeah, I think this needs to be cleared up a bit.. We wrote and dismissed the same rumor 

Some are confusing a "pro" EOS RF with a 1 series RF mount camera, like CW in this rumor. They are two different cameras.


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## slclick (Oct 21, 2019)

I'm going to 'wing' it here even though I haven't spoken to any Canon Reps and am not a 'breast' of the situation but this is a 'big' rumor started here which has gone a 'fowl'


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## Quarkcharmed (Oct 21, 2019)

No way 1D line continuation will have 60Mp in the R realm (nor in the D realm).
5DIV line is highly unlikely to have a 2x jump in megapixels.

A 60Mp R camera can only be a candidate for a 5DS replacement. But +10Mp increase doesn't sound plausible. It'll be just a catch-up to A7RIV.

So no, this rumour doesn't sound plausble. However it can make a good lengthy thread that will eventually fade away into the dynamic range discussion. 

Actually I'm already asking myself if this 60Mp candidate will have DR any close to A7RIV...


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## jeanluc (Oct 21, 2019)

After some initial skepticism, I love my EOS R. As a landscape guy, my only major wishes are :

(1) a little more resolution to put it somewhere around the D850/A7...even 40-something MP would be great

(2) weather sealing equivalent to 5D series. This is the only reason I still use the 5D4 on landscape shoots. in fact, this is why I have no RF lenses yet...
no point in switching if both my bodies can't use 'em 

(3) some firmware things like focus bracketing and some minor body ergonomic changes would be nice, but not really a big deal IMHO

So I wish they would just get on with it. Not sure why the ongoing foot dragging on the high resolution version, since the items above are fairly obvious to most people who would buy such a body.

I imagine lot more engineering needs to go into a R series 1D equivalent, so the delay there is easily understandable.

My bet is they are working on the next generation of sensors, so when they finally release the high MP R, I bet it will be very nice indeed.


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## mpb001 (Oct 21, 2019)

Not that long ago, Canon indicated that they were going to likley have a 70-80MP sensor in the pro R model. I don’t think it would now be 60mp since Sony has hit that threshold.


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## masterpix (Oct 21, 2019)

The 1D was a PRO camera dedicated to news and sports, in those two cases, the frame rate and endless buffer are the main concern, not HUGE MP sensor. So probbaly both 1D and 1R won't have something over 28-30MP sensors. On the other hand, the 5D and 5R might get a 50MP sensor for those two were more directed to lansdacpe/nature/fashion/art (and don't kill me for forgetting other needs) where larger MP is more important than high frame rate or buffer. My hope is that Canon will get both 1D and 1R, 5D and 5R and, still hope, 7D and 7R each alongside both mirror and mirrorless.


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## masterpix (Oct 21, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


>


Does this grain or salt (looks lmore like quartz) comes with a battery grip?


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## Quarkcharmed (Oct 21, 2019)

masterpix said:


> Does this grain or salt (looks lmore like quartz) comes with a battery grip?


Not sure about the battery. But you see, it does require a solid grip.


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## vjlex (Oct 21, 2019)

In my view, there are 3 distinct pro bodies: the pro-sports (1DX), pro-studio/landscape (5Ds series), and pro-all around camera (5D series). I'm okay with 60mp, so long as throughput is capable of 8fps RAW or faster.


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## sanj (Oct 21, 2019)

I am happy there is a mention of a Pro Mirrorless. Even if it has zero-rating. Some relief. I am camera-less right now (because of a theft - Just a Sony to get by. I am so waiting to restart. Don't want to buy DSLR - RF are better lenses. Cant buy RF lenses as as they do not fit on the better DSLR cameras. The more I think about it the more I feel Canon is a very sharp company - they are playing it such that people end up owing both kind of cameras.


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## Pape (Oct 21, 2019)

If they want be better than sony on spec wise 60mpixel 1R is what they need.
why wouldnt they want? panasonic ,sony,fuji and olympus been makeing amazing cameras this year ,how suddenly canon cant make one?
They got technical problems past but, maybe those solved now. you never know


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## sanj (Oct 21, 2019)

jeanluc said:


> After some initial skepticism, I love my EOS R. As a landscape guy, my only major wishes are :
> 
> (1) a little more resolution to put it somewhere around the D850/A7...even 40-something MP would be great
> 
> ...



Engineering issues, understanding. But the word 'milking' comes to mind.


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## criscokkat (Oct 21, 2019)

*Note: The post below is *complete* speculation, just written from the perspective of competing with a competitor that is actually getting traction.*

I don't think a 60 mp r equivalent '5dv' is out of the realm of possibility. I consider the a7riii the competitor to the 5div for two of the biggest categories of photographers: weddings and 'general purpose' pro shooters, even if they didn't make as many inroads into those markets as they hoped with that camera. After that release Sony then went on to have a major hit on their hands with the prosumers with the a7siii, and really learned just how valuable their eye tracking and having 10fps was to the market. They made sure those two aspects of performance were included with their next a7r version, and it's now out and getting rave reviews from people who dismissed the last one.

The a7riv is squarely aimed at the 5d crowd. Same price for much better specs than what is currently available, resolution AND speed. Canon HAS to be in the same ballpark on this one. I can almost guarantee that a Nikon version of this sensor will come as well next year. There's no rule that says Canon has to use a sensor that is a perfect upscaling of the new aps-c chip that puts it at 83mp. By having a less dense sensor they might be able to keep the speeds up and the heat down, which means lower baseline heat before you add in heat generated from IBIS.

They hinted all along that the R mount cameras might not directly correlate to existing lines, so maybe if the Sony a7riv is $3599, the similar in performance pro R is $4100 or so. And maybe when the real high rez r mount version is out we'll see that mythical 100mp+ sensor we've seen patents on. Some point down the road we'll probably see the 5dv mirrored version and a R II with a 38-42 mp sensor , and the price difference between the two might not be as dramatic.


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## Danglin52 (Oct 21, 2019)

This may be a case where someone is confusing potential releases for the DSLR / R lines. The 5dIV is considered a "pro" camera to most and this could simply be the 5d V that was rumored in an earlier post. I would think if it was the hi-res R camera rumored Canon would be going for the gold with an 80mp+ upscale of the m6 II sensor rather than just equalling the Sony a7rIV. I don't remember if the 5d V rumor carried a MP speculation. We also have the rumor of the 1dx III which could have been confused with this rumor, although 60mp would make absolutely no sense. My head is hurting, I personally would move this rumor to a CR (-1) until there is some clarity.


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## BeenThere (Oct 21, 2019)

sanj said:


> I am happy there is a mention of a Pro Mirrorless. Even if it has zero-rating. Some relief. I am camera-less right now (because of a theft - Just a Sony to get by. I am so waiting to restart. Don't want to buy DSLR - RF are better lenses. Cant buy RF lenses as as they do not fit on the better DSLR cameras. The more I think about it the more I feel Canon is a very sharp company - they are playing it such that people end up owing both kind of cameras.


The future is always rosier than the present. Better to shoot now and salivate later.


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## Krispy (Oct 21, 2019)

My setup up until recently was the 5DM4 and the 5DM2 as my backup. I bought the EOS R 2 weeks ago to replace the 5DM2, but with all the rumors of a more pro version R, I am considering returning it and just getting the upgrade when it releases.


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## flip314 (Oct 21, 2019)

Krispy said:


> My setup up until recently was the 5DM4 and the 5DM2 as my backup. I bought the EOS R 2 weeks ago to replace the 5DM2, but with all the rumors of a more pro version R, I am considering returning it and just getting the upgrade when it releases.



I just got a rose-colored filter for my camera. It works out great!


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## Danglin52 (Oct 21, 2019)

Krispy said:


> My setup up until recently was the 5DM4 and the 5DM2 as my backup. I bought the EOS R 2 weeks ago to replace the 5DM2, but with all the rumors of a more pro version R, I am considering returning it and just getting the upgrade when it releases.



The R will probably give you better results than the 5d II has a newer sensor and improved AF with the new firmware. I don't think the R has any benefit over the 5dIV unless the AF is a better with the new firmware. If you don't have a big need for a new backup at this time, you might consider returning. If you are one of those folks that waits for prices on new gear to drop, I would keep the camera. Even if a new camera is announced next year, it will be 2021 before you see any real price movement. I usually carry a 1dx II + 5d IV, but I sold my 5d IV last month. I don't have any major wildlife trips until Fall 2020, so I decided I could do without the 5d IV and tiger resell value. I did buy a M6 II as a temporary backup and to use on a couple of big recreation trips I have scheduled in 2020. I plan to purchase an R in 2020 if they deliver a high MPX model or an updated R II. I borrowed an R from CPS and it is a very nice camera even though it was using the old firmware.


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## Krispy (Oct 21, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> The R will probably give you better results than the 5d II has a newer sensor and improved AF with the new firmware. I don't think the R has any benefit over the 5dIV unless the AF is a better with the new firmware. If you don't have a big need for a new backup at this time, you might consider returning. If you are one of those folks that waits for prices on new gear to drop, I would keep the camera. Even if a new camera is announced next year, it will be 2021 before you see any real price movement. I usually carry a 1dx II + 5d IV, but I sold my 5d IV last month. I don't have any major wildlife trips until Fall 2020, so I decided I could do without the 5d IV and tiger resell value. I did buy a M6 II as a temporary backup and to use on a couple of big recreation trips I have scheduled in 2020. I plan to purchase an R in 2020 if they deliver a high MPX model or an updated R II. I borrowed an R from CPS and it is a very nice camera even though it was using the old firmware.




I agree. I use my 5dM4 for just about everything and I primarily focus on video work for what I do, but do photos when requested. The R is great but If there's going to be an upgrade in a few months, I can either get my money back now or try and resell in a few months for as close as I can get. The 5DM2 isn't great since it's outdated. I've been waiting to invest in mirrorless until the Mirroless 1D came out, but when I took the sensor to get cleaned at Canon on one of my bodies, they talked me into the R. I just hate that I don't have dual card slots, no joystick, the Touch Bar I'm kind of on the fence about. But it did have that digital IS, pushed 4k video to my ATOMOS, and the rotating screen for when I used my Ronin.

It's just a lot of PRO's and CON's and am ok with waiting FOR NOW. I'm just waiting on Canon to finally confirm something.


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## jeanluc (Oct 21, 2019)

Krispy said:


> My setup up until recently was the 5DM4 and the 5DM2 as my backup. I bought the EOS R 2 weeks ago to replace the 5DM2, but with all the rumors of a more pro version R, I am considering returning it and just getting the upgrade when it releases.



I'd keep the R, you will soon like it more than your 5D bodies. I know I do....I bet your 5D4 will be your backup within 1 or 2 shoots.


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## Krispy (Oct 21, 2019)

jeanluc said:


> I'd keep the R, you will soon like it more than your 5D bodies. I know I do....I bet your 5D4 will be your backup within 1 or 2 shoots.


 I definitely do like it for most situations. It feels clean and streamlined and just looks and feels better. It's just missing a couple features I wish it had. If I had the money to spare, I would keep it and just get the upgrade as well, if it warranted it.

But at least my plan is to get a "pro(5D)" EOS R to replace my 5DM2 and then the Mirrorless "1D" to replace my 5DM4.


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## melgross (Oct 21, 2019)

For a high Rez camera, I’d prefer something in the range of 60MP rather than 80MP. I prefer a higher pixel quality than more pixels. 60 is more than enough for most use.

if we need even higher Rez, I’d prefer Canon go the pixel shift way as Panasonic has done with their new FF system. That’s spactacular, according to those who have used, and tested it. In reality, really high Rez requires a tripod anyway, so that shouldn’t be a problem for an excellent implementation of pixel shift, which also gives better s/n and dynamic range.


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## Proscribo (Oct 21, 2019)

melgross said:


> For a high Rez camera, I’d prefer something in the range of 60MP rather than 80MP. I prefer a higher pixel quality than more pixels. 60 is mot]re than enough for most use.


It's the tech that determines the pixel "quality", not the size.


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## melgross (Oct 21, 2019)

Proscribo said:


> It's the tech that determines the pixel "quality", not the size.


What? Bigger sensing sites will always give better pixel quality, assuming that the manufacturer knows what it’s doing. All of the sensor manufacturers know what they’re doing. Canon was late to the game of putting the amp on chip, as Sony had done years earlier, so they’ve been playing catch-up. But their pixel quality has been going up too.

Sony has no major tech advantage, if any. It’s just experience with a particular technology. At some point, there will be no significant per pixel improvements. Right now, they capture almost all the photons arriving through the lens. Anything new has to eliminate the filter. That accounts for a good stop and a half, and sometimes more, degradation in the amount of light reaching the sensor, because filters are not efficient. The Foveon does that, but that design has other problems.

it would be great if regular cameras could do the amount of computational work that the iPhone and others can do. But properly done pixel shift can overcome many disadvantage—if done correctly, as Panasonic seems to have done. Yes, you do need a tripod, but again, all really high Rez photography needs a tripod.


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## unfocused (Oct 21, 2019)

jeanluc said:


> I'd keep the R, you will soon like it more than your 5D bodies. I know I do....I bet your 5D4 will be your backup within 1 or 2 shoots.


Pretty much my experience as well. I bought the R for one reason only – silent shutter. I could not use the 1Dx II in meetings and events where I needed to be discrete and decided it would be a good second body to the 5D IV. I am now using it for almost everything, with the 5DIV now serving as the second body. The 1Dx II is now relegated to just sports. If the 1Dx III has better autofocus, I will buy it. But, I doubt if I buy a 5D V. I'll keep using the IV until the "R II" or "R Sports" comes out and then add a second R.


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## 6degrees (Oct 21, 2019)

a7rIV equivalent, not interested for a9II equivalent.


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## Danglin52 (Oct 21, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Pretty much my experience as well. I bought the R for one reason only – silent shutter. I could not use the 1Dx II in meetings and events where I needed to be discrete and decided it would be a good second body to the 5D IV. I am now using it for almost everything, with the 5DIV now serving as the second body. The 1Dx II is now relegated to just sports. If the 1Dx III has better autofocus, I will buy it. But, I doubt if I buy a 5D V. I'll keep using the IV until the "R II" or "R Sports" comes out and then add a second R.



I had a chance to test a loaner R at the US Open Tennis, but it was prior to the 1.4 firmware update. I liked the camera, but the AF was definitely not up to the 5dIV. I am usually pretty good at nailing the ball with a 5dIV when it is close / hits the racquet, but I found it to be a real challenge with the R. I think some of it may have been latency in the EVF as I shot a burst. I know the R is not a sports camera, but if you are using the 1.4 firmware can you give me your thoughts on how the AF compares to the 1dx II & 5dIV. Mainly acquiring focus lock and tracking AF. I found it a little slow to acquire focus and hunt on the version prior to 1.4. I would buy an R if I had an immediate need, but I have time to wait for an R II or the high mpx version.


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## unfocused (Oct 22, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I had a chance to test a loaner R at the US Open Tennis, but it was prior to the 1.4 firmware update. I liked the camera, but the AF was definitely not up to the 5dIV. I am usually pretty good at nailing the ball with a 5dIV when it is close / hits the racquet, but I found it to be a real challenge with the R. I think some of it may have been latency in the EVF as I shot a burst. I know the R is not a sports camera, but if you are using the 1.4 firmware can you give me your thoughts on how the AF compares to the 1dx II & 5dIV. Mainly acquiring focus lock and tracking AF. I found it a little slow to acquire focus and hunt on the version prior to 1.4. I would buy an R if I had an immediate need, but I have time to wait for an R II or the high mpx version.



I really haven't used it for sports. To be honest, I tried it for like five minutes one night and decided I was better off with the 1Dx. I did use it the other night as the second body, fitted with the 24-105 and shooting wide shots, but I don't have the luxury of failing to get the main shots, so I just rely on the tried and true 1Dx for the main action shots. 

Here is what I am talking about as far as wide or color shots. Shot Friday night in my college's very poorly lit swimming pool ISO 6400. However, I wasn't using eye focus. Honestly, I'm not real kicked in the head about the firmware update for sports. It it probably fine if you only have one subject, but with multiple faces in sports, I don't think it's really there yet. Or maybe, I'm just incompetent.


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## Mr Majestyk (Oct 22, 2019)

I’ve just sold my last Canon camera but still have my glass waiting and praying they can deliver something enticing. I’m not expecting anything remotely 1 series AF performance my March, but could believe something much better than the EOS R which shouldn’t be hard. 60MP sounds weird ass I thought the high MP 5dS mirrorless was getting a FF version of the M6II sensor at 83MP, which IMO is stupidly high. I’m not even interested in upgrading my Sony A7RIII to the RIV have no real desire for 61MP. But if they could make a 60MP 1 series class camera then I'll put both my kidneys on ebay.

Anyway this all sounds like hogwash.


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## Jethro (Oct 22, 2019)

[CR0] sounds about right. But it may well me more (confused) similar rumours around the high MP R body - first quarter 2020 is quite possible for that.


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## Adelino (Oct 22, 2019)

Canon has said they only consider a 1 series pro a camera that makes no excuses. I bet most pros use something other than an 1 series though.


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## slclick (Oct 22, 2019)

6degrees said:


> a7rIV equivalent, not interested for a9II equivalent.


Are you saying you wish the next R camera body to rival the a7RIV? Blurbs are tough to glean context from at times.


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## Nelu (Oct 22, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> I had a chance to test a loaner R at the US Open Tennis, but it was prior to the 1.4 firmware update. I liked the camera, but the AF was definitely not up to the 5dIV. I am usually pretty good at nailing the ball with a 5dIV when it is close / hits the racquet, but I found it to be a real challenge with the R. I think some of it may have been latency in the EVF as I shot a burst. I know the R is not a sports camera, but if you are using the 1.4 firmware can you give me your thoughts on how the AF compares to the 1dx II & 5dIV. Mainly acquiring focus lock and tracking AF. I found it a little slow to acquire focus and hunt on the version prior to 1.4. I would buy an R if I had an immediate need, but I have time to wait for an R II or the high mpx version.


I haven't used it for sports but for bird photography in general, birds in flight being my main focus.
I'll start saying that for large birds in flight there's no problem with focus accuracy and tracking. I think it's even better than the 5D Mark IV which I also use, along with the 1DX.
For small birds in flight is a different story. Because they're so tiny and fast, the main issue here is following them in the EVF. I have to say, it sucks compared to the OVF!
The EVF lag will make it very hard to keep the tiny subject in focus and yes, I did disable the image review, so it's not that to blame.
This is the main limitation for fast real fast action photos. I'm a very experienced sports photographer and I had excellent results with the 1DX and some nice ones with the 5D Mark IV and it has always been a pleasure to follow the action through the optical viewfinder.
I suppose nowadays, any mirrorless EVF sucks for this purpose, maybe with the exception of the Sony A9, which is in its own league.

To summarize, Canon EOS R's focusing tracking accuracy is awesome...that is when you actually see your subject. I wouldn't mind using it for any sports photography, maybe with the exception of volleyball, which is crazy difficult, even with the 1DX.
I hope this will help you take a more informed decision.
Here is an example of a burst with the EOS R. The shots are in a continuous sequence, one after each other.


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## slclick (Oct 22, 2019)

Adelino said:


> Canon has said they only consider a 1 series pro a camera that makes no excuses. I bet most pros use something other than an 1 series though.


Well, one person's 'Pro' is another persons occasionally paid enthusiast. The definition of the word is debated quite frequently.
Now, if you think a majority of pro's who shoot weddings and studio work are those numbers you speak of then sure but anyone needing top 'in the field' capability or sports/wildlife pro's then I have to disagree,. MAYBE a D5, but that's a far 2nd place. The 1D line is king.It's also hotly debated that the 5D line is professional. I have one, it can be used for professional work, I did so for a few years but I wouldn't say unequivocally that it is pro. Only the 1D.


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## Danglin52 (Oct 22, 2019)

Nelu said:


> I haven't used it for sports but for bird photography in general, birds in flight being my main focus.
> I'll start saying that for large birds in flight there's no problem with focus accuracy and tracking. I think it's even better than the 5D Mark IV which I also use, along with the 1DX.
> For small birds in flight is a different story. Because they're so tiny and fast, the main issue here is following them in the EVF. I have to say, it sucks compared to the OVF!
> The EVF lag will make it very hard to keep the tiny subject in focus and yes, I did disable the image review, so it's not that to blame.
> ...



Very nice shots! Is the best way to view the R with firmware 1.4 that it will equal or exceed 5dIV AF in every aspect with the exception of small, fast moving object that are impacted by the delay of the EVF?


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## navastronia (Oct 22, 2019)

slclick said:


> Well, one person's 'Pro' is another persons occasionally paid enthusiast. The definition of the word is debated quite frequently.
> Now, if you think a majority of pro's who shoot weddings and studio work are those numbers you speak of then sure but anyone needing top 'in the field' capability or sports/wildlife pro's then I have to disagree,. MAYBE a D5, but that's a far 2nd place. The 1D line is king.It's also hotly debated that the 5D line is professional. I have one, it can be used for professional work, I did so for a few years but I wouldn't say unequivocally that it is pro. Only the 1D.



I catered weddings throughout 2017 and 2018 and in 60-odd ceremonies at different venues, would say 80% of photographers used Canon 5D/6D bodies and 20% used Sony, Nikon, or Canon 1D-series bodies. Just my 2 cents.


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## Nelu (Oct 22, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> Very nice shots! Is the best way to view the R with firmware 1.4 that it will equal or exceed 5dIV AF in every aspect with the exception of small, fast moving object that are impacted by the delay of the EVF?


Thanks!
I see the question mark so I suppose there's a question but I'm not sure I understand it:
"Is the best way to view the R with firmware 1.4 that it will equal or exceed 5dIV AF in every aspect with the exception of small, fast moving object that are impacted by the delay of the EVF?"
If you are asking about the AF accuracy compared to the 5D Mark IV I think the EOS R is better. I realized that with this camera it's either you get the shot in focus or you don't get it at all. There have been very few shots in so-so focus.
The speed is not that great but it's enough, even for sports and BIF.


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## Mr Majestyk (Oct 22, 2019)

Nelu said:


> Thanks!
> I see the question mark so I suppose there's a question but I'm not sure I understand it:
> "Is the best way to view the R with firmware 1.4 that it will equal or exceed 5dIV AF in every aspect with the exception of small, fast moving object that are impacted by the delay of the EVF?"
> If you are asking about the AF accuracy compared to the 5D Mark IV I think the EOS R is better. I realized that with this camera it's either you get the shot in focus or you don't get it at all. There have been very few shots in so-so focus.
> The speed is not that great but it's enough, even for sports and BIF.


2-3 fps (with AF tracking) is woefully inadequate, people complained about the 5DsR's 5fps, but it was workable most times and was better than the 5D3 for AF IMO. 2fps is great for pelicans in flight I guess or resting pigeons. Even the M6II will be a far superior tool for BIF and action.


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## unfocused (Oct 22, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> ...2fps is great for pelicans in flight...



Really slow pelicans.


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## Nelu (Oct 22, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> 2-3 fps (with AF tracking) is woefully inadequate, people complained about the 5DsR's 5fps, but it was workable most times and was better than the 5D3 for AF IMO. 2fps is great for pelicans in flight I guess or resting pigeons. Even the M6II will be a far superior tool for BIF and action.


That's just not true!
It's 5 fps with continuos focus tracking, not 2-3. Believe me, I actually use the camera unlike armchair reviewers on YouTube...


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## koch1948 (Oct 22, 2019)

slclick said:


> Well, one person's 'Pro' is another persons occasionally paid enthusiast. The definition of the word is debated quite frequently.
> Now, if you think a majority of pro's who shoot weddings and studio work are those numbers you speak of then sure but anyone needing top 'in the field' capability or sports/wildlife pro's then I have to disagree,. MAYBE a D5, but that's a far 2nd place. The 1D line is king.It's also hotly debated that the 5D line is professional. I have one, it can be used for professional work, I did so for a few years but I wouldn't say unequivocally that it is pro. Only the 1D.


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## koch1948 (Oct 22, 2019)

My understanding is that the 1D series is considered "Pro" and the 5D series is considered "Prosumer".


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## Quarkcharmed (Oct 22, 2019)

koch1948 said:


> My understanding is that the 1D series is considered "Pro" and the 5D series is considered "Prosumer".



On its own website, Canon positions 5DIV, 1DXII, 5DS and even 6DII as 'professional'. 6DII is also in the enthusiast category. No mirrorless camera is in the professional category yet. R, RP, M6II and M5 are all in the enthusiast category.


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## mb66energy (Oct 22, 2019)

koch1948 said:


> My understanding is that the 1D series is considered "Pro" and the 5D series is considered "Prosumer".



I think that 1D and 5D series + EOS R are "Pro" cameras.
1D is the very fast, ultra rugged but heavy pro camera,
5D and EOS R are fast, rugged and reliable pro cameras with less weight.

Two EOS Rs and e.g. 15-30 or 24-70 + 70-200 2.8 might be a very good combo for a press
photograph/journalist (non-sports) because it should have a good balance between speed, IQ
and volume/weight. And there is enough room in a medium large backpack for
a small tripod, some audio equipment, notebook, some clothing, some emergency food
and 1...2 litres of water.


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## edoorn (Oct 22, 2019)

I consider the R useable for pro work in some situations but not as deployable or versatile as the 5 or 1. Just a few too many quirks in button placement and lack of options; more designed from a converted dslr point of view than from the ground up as a completely new type of camera. Even Canon says its more of a 6D segment camera, depending on who you ask (people from CPS for example).

In the last few months I seriously considered getting an R alongside my 5D’s but I know that in the end I’d just sell it somewhere next year when better options will be available. So I’ll wait patiently. Yesterday I attended a CPS event and got to try the new 15-35 and 24-70 and that did feel very good (also took some tests shots on an sd card and the images look very good). It was again said that ‘2020 will be a very interesting year’. And something’s coming Thursday; probably just the announcement of the new 85 and 70-200


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## Ozarker (Oct 22, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> Not that long ago, Canon indicated that they were going to likley have a 70-80MP sensor in the pro R model. I don’t think it would now be 60mp since Sony has hit that threshold.


Industrial psychological warfare.


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## maxfactor9933 (Oct 22, 2019)

Not gonna happen. 
I believe since Canon yet to master continuous AF in burst mode, they are not gonna release a PRO (1D or 5D equivalent) R body. instead, they probably release a Hi-res version of R (5Dsr equivalent ), with FF M6 sensor (which is a turn off for me personally since DR is pretty meh) and mediocre AF features for 3000 USD. so they can buy more time to master the continuous AF and release more PRO lenses. 
I think we can only see the 5D equivalent R body with proper AF and probably 36 or 42 MP in early 2021.


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## Pape (Oct 22, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> Not gonna happen.
> I believe since Canon yet to master continuous AF in burst mode, they are not gonna release a PRO (1D or 5D equivalent) R body. instead, they probably release a Hi-res version of R (5Dsr equivalent ), with FF M6 sensor (which is a turn off for me personally since DR is pretty meh) and mediocre AF features for 3000 USD. so they can buy more time to master the continuous AF and release more PRO lenses.
> I think we can only see the 5D equivalent R body with proper AF and probably 36 or 42 MP in early 2021.


I doubt they release 60mpixel high res top model if its their best sensor.
Maybe 60mpixel high resolution enthusiastic hobbyist camera then with one card slot and average weather seal.


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## canonnews (Oct 22, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> Not gonna happen.
> I believe since Canon yet to master continuous AF in burst mode, they are not gonna release a PRO (1D or 5D equivalent) R body. instead, they probably release a Hi-res version of R (5Dsr equivalent ), with FF M6 sensor (which is a turn off for me personally since DR is pretty meh) and mediocre AF features for 3000 USD.



The M6 Mark II does 16 fps with AF.
I think they figured it out.

btw, there's nothing wrong with the M6 II's DR.. Even dpreview says Canon has caught up to Sony sensors. and that's dpreview even.


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## Pape (Oct 22, 2019)

canonnews said:


> The M6 Mark II does 16 fps with AF.
> I think they figured it out.
> 
> btw, there's nothing wrong with the M6 II's DR.. Even dpreview says Canon has caught up to Sony sensors. and that's dpreview even.


so with 2xdici9 maybe 8fp 80mpix ,sounds good to me 
or 10fps 60mpix like sony .. but it doesnt feel like highmegapixel camera if nearly 1dx2 shoot speed


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## 6degrees (Oct 22, 2019)

slclick said:


> Are you saying you wish the next R camera body to rival the a7RIV? Blurbs are tough to glean context from at times.



Yes, because RF lenses are more superior than GM which is much more important.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 22, 2019)

canonnews said:


> btw, there's nothing wrong with the M6 II's DR.. Even dpreview says Canon has caught up to Sony sensors. and that's dpreview even.



And to prove how full of crap DPReview are and have been for so long the truth is the M6 II/90D and 80D DR is exactly the same...



Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting


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## melgross (Oct 22, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> On its own website, Canon positions 5DIV, 1DXII, 5DS and even 6DII as 'professional'. 6DII is also in the enthusiast category. No mirrorless camera is in the professional category yet. R, RP, M6II and M5 are all in the enthusiast category.


I seem to remember that when the 5D first came out, which is when I first bought it, Apple considered it to be an advanced amateur camera, not a Pro model. I suppose that evolved over the years.


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## flip314 (Oct 22, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> And to prove how full of crap DPReview are and have been for so long the truth is the M6 II/90D and 80D DR is exactly the same...
> 
> 
> 
> Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting



The difference between 80D/90D and Sony 7r3/7r4 in APS-C mode is almost nothing too. 0.6 stop at base ISO, and <0.4 for most of the rest of the range. People are still going to claim that half a stop is keeping them from taking good photos, but they've got basically not science to back it up with.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 22, 2019)

flip314 said:


> The difference between 80D/90D and Sony 7r3/7r4 in APS-C mode is almost nothing too. 0.6 stop at base ISO, and <0.4 for most of the rest of the range. People are still going to claim that half a stop is keeping them from taking good photos, but they've got basically not science to back it up with.


Yep, makes DPReview even more laughable. All this 'way behind' and 'catching up' is just click bate hyperbole. Don't get me wrong, the 5D MkII/III generation of sensors did lag somewhat behind the competition but DR differences haven't been an issue between camera brands when comparing same sized sensors for several years now.


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## Dantana (Oct 22, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> On its own website, Canon positions 5DIV, 1DXII, 5DS and even 6DII as 'professional'. 6DII is also in the enthusiast category. No mirrorless camera is in the professional category yet. R, RP, M6II and M5 are all in the enthusiast category.


In my opinion, and it's only an opinion, it's the photographer that is professional or enthusiast, not the camera.


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## SecureGSM (Oct 22, 2019)

melgross said:


> I seem to remember that when the 5D first came out, which is when I first bought it, Apple considered it to be an advanced amateur camera, not a Pro model. I suppose that evolved over the years.


Correct. Only for US markets though. That is how Canon US decided to position the 5D series locally They changed the tune in about a year with intent to capture more of the market with the same product and to justify a premium product pricing model.


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## Quarkcharmed (Oct 22, 2019)

Dantana said:


> In my opinion, and it's only an opinion, it's the photographer that is professional or enthusiast, not the camera.


Yes, but the point was to discuss the terminology in this rumour, not the skills of photographers.


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## Dantana (Oct 22, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Yes, but the point was to discuss the terminology in this rumour, not the skills of photographers.


But that's my point. Debating over whether a 5DIV is a Professional or Enthusiast camera doesn't make much sense. It's not the camera that's professional.


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## SteveC (Oct 23, 2019)

Dantana said:


> But that's my point. Debating over whether a 5DIV is a Professional or Enthusiast camera doesn't make much sense. It's not the camera that's professional.



No, the camera isn't...but is it made to meet the demands a professional will put on it?


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## melgross (Oct 23, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> Correct. Only for US markets though. That is how Canon US decided to position the 5D series locally They changed the tune in about a year with intent to capture more of the market with the same product and to justify a premium product pricing model.


I don’t know about the premium pricing model, but pros always use lower models as backup. If they really like the camera, they may use it more often. Pros who either can’t afford the top model, or don’t need some of the features, but prefer others, may use the lower model instead.


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## SecureGSM (Oct 23, 2019)

Yeah... it is actually more about a product being suitable for being used in a commercial environment: frequent use and abuse. 
As you are aware, products being used commercially are exempt form the standard 12 month manufacturers warranty. e.g. white goods used in a commercial environment, large screen TVs used in pubs and for shop demos, any other goods designed for a domestic, occasional use rather than a challenging commercial environment. I hope it makes sense.


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## Quarkcharmed (Oct 23, 2019)

Dantana said:


> But that's my point. Debating over whether a 5DIV is a Professional or Enthusiast camera doesn't make much sense. It's not the camera that's professional.



It does make sense in the context of this thread as the initial post discusses pro vs non-pro cameras.


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## Dantana (Oct 23, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> It does make sense in the context of this thread as the initial post discusses pro vs non-pro cameras.


Uh, sure. I guess if you want to have that debate, go ahead. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, but maybe I just don’t get it. 

On an unrelated note, beautiful shots on your web page. Some really stunning work. Also makes me want to explore your country.


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## Valvebounce (Oct 23, 2019)

Hi melgross. 
Why would anyone care where Apple considered a Canon product had been targeted? 

Cheers, Graham. 



melgross said:


> I seem to remember that when the 5D first came out, which is when I first bought it, Apple considered it to be an advanced amateur camera, not a Pro model. I suppose that evolved over the years.


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## SecureGSM (Oct 23, 2019)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi melgross.
> Why would anyone care where Apple considered a Canon product had been targeted?
> 
> Cheers, Graham.


Typo. Meant to say Canon instead.


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## Quarkcharmed (Oct 23, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> Typo. Meant to say Canon instead.



If you make 5 mistakes spelling Canon, you get an Apple...


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## SecureGSM (Oct 23, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> If you make 5 mistakes spelling Canon, you get an Apple...


Humans do make mistake. Obviously Canon is what Melgross meant to say. Not Apple.


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## melgross (Oct 23, 2019)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi melgross.
> Why would anyone care where Apple considered a Canon product had been targeted?
> 
> Cheers, Graham.


I have no idea where that came from. I wrote Canon.


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## Joules (Oct 23, 2019)

melgross said:


> I have no idea where that came from. I wrote Canon.


Clearly your auto correction knows something we don't: Harry got it right all along, Apple's swallowing the Canon camera division


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## SecureGSM (Oct 23, 2019)

Joules said:


> Clearly your auto correction knows something we don't: Harry got it right all along, Apple's swallowing the Canon camera division


Yeah, I was just about to say: what is the Harry’s latest on this?


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## melgross (Oct 24, 2019)

I could swear that I did write Canon. It’s just weird.


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## caffetin (Oct 25, 2019)

any guess about price?


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