# Best way to be nice and make sure your pictures aren’t stolen



## Wm (May 26, 2019)

So 1st of all I have to start by saying, I’m new at this and not sure what to do.... And it’s certainly not that I think my pictures are worth stealing...... But - I’ve now had multiple classes with 3 different professional photographers. The very 1st one out of the box copied all my pictures to her desktop and kept them. I was kinda shocked and didn’t know what to do, so I left it. Our 2nd class she said she was just working on them in memory and they weren’t being saved to her drive. Who knows..... The next time with a different person, he did ask to see what I’ve been shooting and wanted to take a look. Before I knew it, he too copied my whole usb. And finally with the last teacher, they dropped all my pics on the PS program and also told me that they were just in memory but when I went back for another class and inserted the usb to get my new pics up, I noticed a picture from the previous week on their computer. When I said, hey, what was that, I was ignored and they quickly changed screens.....

What gives?

It’s not like my pictures are so great, but, hey - there mine! I guess I could have been more forceful, but I didn’t want to make a big deal or am I???

I’m not too familiar with PS, but what to do. If the teacher is moving so fast, it’s hard for me to tell exactly what they are doing wit the files in the final saving, etc. I guess be more direct and say no keeping the photos. 

Thoughts on this please? Tks.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 26, 2019)

Copyright has broad exclusions for educational purposes.

_"Fair use allows limited use of copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holder for purposes such as criticism, parody, news reporting, research and scholarship, and teaching."_

As far as I can tell the educators did nothing wrong, surely an intrinsic part of their job is to value and assess a students work? How can they do that if they don't have the opportunity to see it as a body of work?

Mind you the bullsh!t comment from two of them saying it is _"in memory but not on the hard drive"_ would make me disrespect their understanding of computers if not their photography.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 26, 2019)

I have my camera write a copyright message in the EXIF, but unless someone were to use my photos for publication, they can have them for all I care. I would not take photos of children or family to a situation like that.

There is no real solution, that message can be removed if someone wishes to.


----------



## Valvebounce (May 26, 2019)

Hi Wm. 
First off, it seems like this might be standard operating procedure as all three have done basically the same thing, I’ve never done a course like that so I don’t speak from experience. Any one else like to chime in here, perhaps we have a tutor on here? 
Second, perhaps ask to see the files deleted at the end of the session, what do any of the other participants have to say on this matter or was it one to one? 
Third and last, it is probably not worth the risk to their reputation, keeping and then accidentally using your work! 

Cheers, Graham.


----------



## AlanF (May 26, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I have my camera write a copyright message in the EXIF, but unless someone were to use my photos for publication, they can have them for all I care. I would not take photos of children or family to a situation like that.
> 
> There is no real solution, that message can be removed if someone wishes to.


It's your copyright as soon as you press the shutter and writing or not in EXIF doesn't alter that.


----------



## unfocused (May 26, 2019)

AlanF said:


> It's your copyright as soon as you press the shutter and writing or not in EXIF doesn't alter that.


I believe that in the U.S. you must make some effort to claim a copyright. That does not mean you have to formally apply for the copyright, but I believe you have to at least do something to indicate you intend to copyright an image. That can be something as simple as writing a copyright message in the EXIF.


----------



## Mikehit (May 26, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I believe that in the U.S. you must make some effort to claim a copyright. That does not mean you have to formally apply for the copyright, but I believe you have to at least do something to indicate you intend to copyright an image. That can be something as simple as writing a copyright message in the EXIF.



The laws in USD are no different to anywhere else. But in US you can register your photo with the copyrighting authorities and that will increase the amount you can claim in compensation if anyone breaks copyright. 
Whether 'copyright' is embedded is irrelevant but in a more litigious society like the US it certainly makes it easier to prove your case.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 26, 2019)

AlanF said:


> It's your copyright as soon as you press the shutter and writing or not in EXIF doesn't alter that.


True, but notification of the copyright is always a good practice. And, removing it shows intent of theft.


----------



## MrFotoFool (May 26, 2019)

This is an unusual situation, photos downloaded by an instructor for a photo course you are taking. Giving the instructor the benefit of the doubt, I would assume they are doing it to review your work. Unless they are actually marketing/selling your work, then I see no harm. However I would, at the very least, follow the advice earlier and make sure your copyright is embedded in the file info. Pro cameras, like my 5D4, allow you to set this up in the menu so it is embedded automatically (I have both of my bodies set up that way). If your camera does not have that feature, then add it to the files in the computer.

I would look to see if the instructor(s) have a website or social media page and check to see if any of your images are on there. If not, I think it's no cause for concern. If so, then you can take further action.


----------



## Wm (May 27, 2019)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Wm.
> First off, it seems like this might be standard operating procedure as all three have done basically the same thing, I’ve never done a course like that so I don’t speak from experience. Any one else like to chime in here, perhaps we have a tutor on here?
> Second, perhaps ask to see the files deleted at the end of the session, what do any of the other participants have to say on this matter or was it one to one?
> Third and last, it is probably not worth the risk to their reputation, keeping and then accidentally using your work!
> ...


Yep, one on one. Would be nice to hear from a tutor on this. I just thought it was weird that the 2nd person whom I mentioned being weary of my work being kept, told me that it was in memory only. And the. The next time I saw on of my pics from the previous session on the computer. He even had told me the pictures weren’t being kept. I can understand really being into a hobby and maybe getting a bunch of pics to mess with or whatever for free, easily, etc.. But I had made the point of not wanting my stuff copied to the computer and got this bs memory line. It’s just cheesy mooching someone else’s work in my opinion.


----------



## Wm (May 27, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Copyright has broad exclusions for educational purposes.
> 
> _"Fair use allows limited use of copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holder for purposes such as criticism, parody, news reporting, research and scholarship, and teaching."_
> 
> ...


Yep. Very true. I don’t mind being assessed. But not stolen from and lied to. But, I feel like they had no right to keep what was not there’s- especially after I had made a point, although in fairness, a light one, that I did not want my pics copied, kept or however you might say it. The BS line from the one was BS for sure bc they knew for sure as a big time PS teacher they were not just in memory after dropping the card on the PS program. Then I get into the whole being lied too scene. Disappointing.


----------



## Wm (May 27, 2019)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Wm.
> First off, it seems like this might be standard operating procedure as all three have done basically the same thing, I’ve never done a course like that so I don’t speak from experience. Any one else like to chime in here, perhaps we have a tutor on here?
> Second, perhaps ask to see the files deleted at the end of the session, what do any of the other participants have to say on this matter or was it one to one?
> Third and last, it is probably not worth the risk to their reputation, keeping and then accidentally using your work!
> ...


So I did see this. But I’m guessing as you say, it can be edited out?


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 27, 2019)

Wm said:


> So I did see this. But I’m guessing as you say, it can be edited out?



Yes, their are EXIF editors, its also possible to place a watermark on a image, but that's not really practical.

The thing is that you will have the original with exif showing copyright, and if its been removed, that shows intent. Watermarks can be cropped away, or if they are placed across the image, it will look pretty bad.

There are even more sophisticated ways to mark a image, but for one that is perceived as valuable, it can get a registered copyright.


----------



## LDS (May 27, 2019)

Check what you signed when you decided to attend those classes. Some contracts may transfer rights (in a limited way, or fully) to whomever runs the class - i.e. they may want to use them to advertise their courses.
If you attend a class, you expect a teacher to look at your photos and advice/criticize you. Depending on how the courses are organized (i.e. online/offline, if every student has a processing station or not, how much time is available on-site, etc.), the ways the teacher can look at the images is different. Usually teachers ask students to submit a limited number of images that should match the course aims - as usually they don't have time to go through hundreds or thousands of students photos themselves. If they just got everything, I would ask why.
For the reasons above, it's advisable to keep photos shoot for a class separated from the rest of your work. I was used to use cards/usb disks just formatted, and a separate Lightroom catalog.
Professional ethics matters. If they are not plain about how they use your photos, I would be even more careful about what I give them access to. Anyway today when sharing photos the risk they can be reused by unethical people is never null. As others suggested, add copyright info so you can show malice if needed.
PS: if photos are dragged&dropped to PS from the USB disks they are only in Photoshop memory and on the removable disk - but of course it takes very little to save copies.


----------



## AlanF (May 27, 2019)

Wm said:


> It’s not like my pictures are so great, but, hey - there mine! I guess I could have been more forceful, but I didn’t want to make a big deal or am I???
> 
> Thoughts on this please? Tks.


The way this discussion has gone, a great deal has been made of it. The discussion on copyright is useful, but give the teacher a break - we have not heard his or her side of things.


----------



## old-pr-pix (May 27, 2019)

It seems the instructors did what I would expect them to do. Perhaps they didn't handle the situation as elegantly as they should, but then again, perhaps your implied accusations offended them?!

Today's digital world doesn't respect copyrights. Image theft is commonplace. I do 'pro bono' work for small non-profits' newsletters. I was stunned to find almost every image in these very limited circulation publications has been 'up-loaded' somehow to the Internet without attribution. Google makes them available to anyone as if they were intentionally public domain. I recently was amazed to find a book published in 2018 that had two images I shot back in ~1969. High resolution scanners are everywhere and the results are certainly good enough for web use. And most people either don't know about copyrights or don't care -- i.e. everything is 'fair use' in their mind.

Some big name photographers have been able to collect substantial sums, but the average shooter has little chance of protecting their images. Current stock sales value most typical images at pennies. It's not worth the cost of a postage stamp to send in the copyright registration form to be able to prosecute violators!


----------



## Zen (May 27, 2019)

old-pr-pix said:


> It seems the instructors did what I would expect them to do. Perhaps they didn't handle the situation as elegantly as they should, but then again, perhaps your implied accusations offended them?!
> 
> Today's digital world doesn't respect copyrights. Image theft is commonplace. I do 'pro bono' work for small non-profits' newsletters. I was stunned to find almost every image in these very limited circulation publications has been 'up-loaded' somehow to the Internet without attribution. Google makes them available to anyone as if they were intentionally public domain. I recently was amazed to find a book published in 2018 that had two images I shot back in ~1969. High resolution scanners are everywhere and the results are certainly good enough for web use. And most people either don't know about copyrights or don't care -- i.e. everything is 'fair use' in their mind.
> 
> Some big name photographers have been able to collect substantial sums, but the average shooter has little chance of protecting their images. Current stock sales value most typical images at pennies. It's not worth the cost of a postage stamp to send in the copyright registration form to be able to prosecute violators!


----------



## Zen (May 27, 2019)

Easy enough to resolve this; just don't go back to those tutors! No big deal! But don't expect to learn much from them either . . .


----------



## Wm (May 27, 2019)

LDS said:


> Check what you signed when you decided to attend those classes. Some contracts may transfer rights (in a limited way, or fully) to whomever runs the class - i.e. they may want to use them to advertise their courses.
> If you attend a class, you expect a teacher to look at your photos and advice/criticize you. Depending on how the courses are organized (i.e. online/offline, if every student has a processing station or not, how much time is available on-site, etc.), the ways the teacher can look at the images is different. Usually teachers ask students to submit a limited number of images that should match the course aims - as usually they don't have time to go through hundreds or thousands of students photos themselves. If they just got everything, I would ask why.
> For the reasons above, it's advisable to keep photos shoot for a class separated from the rest of your work. I was used to use cards/usb disks just formatted, and a separate Lightroom catalog.
> Professional ethics matters. If they are not plain about how they use your photos, I would be even more careful about what I give them access to. Anyway today when sharing photos the risk they can be reused by unethical people is never null. As others suggested, add copyright info so you can show malice if needed.
> PS: if photos are dragged&dropped to PS from the USB disks they are only in Photoshop memory and on the removable disk - but of course it takes very little to save copies.


Tks for the advice. Will definitely not bring all my pics again. They were one on one classes, nothing signed. It just threw me off seeing one of my previous pics on the computer..... And, the in memory comment that was made in the 1st class before I saw the pic in the second class. Kinda a trust thing. Tks!


----------



## Wm (May 27, 2019)

Zen said:


> Easy enough to resolve this; just don't go back to those tutors! No big deal! But don't expect to learn much from them either . . .


Right - makes sense. I was also trying to find out what the “norm” is - if others have run across this issue....


----------



## Michael Clark (May 28, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I believe that in the U.S. you must make some effort to claim a copyright. That does not mean you have to formally apply for the copyright, but I believe you have to at least do something to indicate you intend to copyright an image. That can be something as simple as writing a copyright message in the EXIF.



Nope. If you took a photo and it wasn't under terms of a contract that assigned the rights to someone else, you own the copyright to that image.

If you want to sue for more than actual damages when someone violates that copyright, it needs to be registered with the U.S. Copyright office within 90 days of first publication or before the copyright violation occurred, whichever is later. If you haven't registered the copyright you can't sue for punitive damages, only actual damages.


----------

