# Canon Continues To Research Putting IS into Tilt-Shift Lenses



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 2, 2018)

```
It appears that Canon continues to research image stabilization in tilt-shift lenses. Are we possibly going to see more tilt-shift lenses in the future with IS? Or are we a ways away and likely won’t see such a thing until the next updates in a decade or so.</p>
<p>From <a href="https://www.canonnews.com/will-the-next-series-of-ts-es-include-is">Canon News</a>:</p>


<blockquote><p>Japan Patent Application 2017-227697 deals with the wiring of the IS elements that tilt and move with the corresponding tilt of the lens.  Specifically how to optimize that because to provide the flexible interconnects necessary for the IS unit would increase complexity.</p></blockquote>
<p>We haven’t anything about more tilt-shift lenses, I think it’s safe to say that the latest 3 will be it for a while.</p>
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## ScottyP (Jan 2, 2018)

Now it is clear Canon is messing with ahsanford. No new 50mm with IS but slews of new TS lenses, and now new TS lenses with IS.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 2, 2018)

I just wish they'd innovate some.


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## ahsanford (Jan 3, 2018)

ScottyP said:


> Now it is clear Canon is messing with ahsanford. No new 50mm with IS but slews of new TS lenses, and now new TS lenses with IS.



They are going to put AF in tilt-shifts next. Then tilt-shifts will get a small onboard refrigerator to hold your beer. Then they will come an onboard robo-monkey that comes out to hold your camera and take trippy tilt-focus portraits of you.

Those are clearly much bigger priorities than offering a modern 50 prime you can do shoot anything with. :-[

- A


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 3, 2018)

What it boils down to seems to be where the circuit board that controls the IS unit is located. By placing it in a optimal location, the bending of the flex circuit is reduced.

I really doubt if there will be IS in a Canon tilt-shift in the near future.


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## ecqns (Jan 3, 2018)

I just want a 13 or 14mm TS-E.
I hear Nikon's new 19mm is great with a price to match, if they come out with something wider than 17mm I could see architecture photographers like me look into switching systems.


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## Antono Refa (Jan 3, 2018)

What would be the usage scenario?


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## ahsanford (Jan 3, 2018)

Antono Refa said:


> What would be the usage scenario?



Of IS?

It would allow T/S users to leave the tripod, one would think. Video for sure, but stills might benefit as well.

- A


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## Random Orbits (Jan 3, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > What would be the usage scenario?
> ...



Agree with Antonio Refa. Now quite sure how much benefit will be to TS-E lenses. The shake you get from making adjustments on the fly handheld (when you holding the camera one handed) is much larger than the typical jitter. I'd rather have the lenses encoded so that distortion/vignetting maps can be applied with tilt and shift applied.


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## Aaron D (Jan 3, 2018)

Dammit Canon! Put a tripod mount on your TSE lenses like Schneider does and Hartblei even. In the Ukraine for crying out loud!


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## ecqns (Jan 3, 2018)

Aaron D said:


> Dammit Canon! Put a tripod mount on your TSE lenses like Schneider does and Hartblei even. In the Ukraine for crying out loud!



Yes that would be really helpful - maybe they will do it for my fantasy 13mm TS-E


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 3, 2018)

Antono Refa said:


> What would be the usage scenario?



According to the patent, it allows images without having to place the camera on a tripod. They say that there is a demand for the feature from those who take stock photos and need a very large number of images, presumably each slightly different or from different angles that takes too much time when using a tripod.


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jan 4, 2018)

IS on a TSE lens? Can't find a use for IS on long lenses hand held so why would one want it on a lens that needs to be used on a tripod/support to make use of it's focus/DOF/perspective capabilities?

Perhaps I am missing something?


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## aceflibble (Jan 4, 2018)

I guess none of you have looked at Instagram lately, or paid much attention to general photography trends in the last five years or so. Selective focus is _the_ big draw, and people want it faster and easier. Making a tilt-shift lens with IS makes _perfect_ sense, if the size and weight can also be kept down. (So don't expect them to match the current TS-Es in resolving power, not that resolution matters for trendy photography.)

The first company that can make a tilt-shift, autofocus, stabilised, weather sealed, equivalent 24-35mm lens for an APS-C body at under 500g would pretty much take over all of Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook. And that is huge money.


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jan 4, 2018)

aceflibble said:


> I guess none of you have looked at Instagram lately, or paid much attention to general photography trends in the last five years or so. Selective focus is _the_ big draw, and people want it faster and easier. Making a tilt-shift lens with IS makes _perfect_ sense, if the size and weight can also be kept down. (So don't expect them to match the current TS-Es in resolving power, not that resolution matters for trendy photography.)
> 
> The first company that can make a tilt-shift, autofocus, stabilised, weather sealed, equivalent 24-35mm lens for an APS-C body at under 500g would pretty much take over all of Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook. And that is huge money.



Interesting thoughts as I have little or no knowledge of the platforms (Instagram etc) that you mention. However I do know that IS hampers AF performance so why would one want IS on short lenses? Add to this the set up time for a TSE lens and even AF becomes redundant. Even on my Canon 800 F5.6 L IS hand held IS is just a hindrance so on a short TSE lens? Looks pretty useless to me!

Again - am I missing something?


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## Ryananthony (Jan 5, 2018)

johnf3f said:


> aceflibble said:
> 
> 
> > I guess none of you have looked at Instagram lately, or paid much attention to general photography trends in the last five years or so. Selective focus is _the_ big draw, and people want it faster and easier. Making a tilt-shift lens with IS makes _perfect_ sense, if the size and weight can also be kept down. (So don't expect them to match the current TS-Es in resolving power, not that resolution matters for trendy photography.)
> ...



We get it, you don't like IS.


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## Don Haines (Jan 5, 2018)

Ryananthony said:


> johnf3f said:
> 
> 
> > aceflibble said:
> ...


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## ahsanford (Jan 5, 2018)

johnf3f said:


> Interesting thoughts as I have little or no knowledge of the platforms (Instagram etc) that you mention. However I do know that IS hampers AF performance so why would one want IS on short lenses? Add to this the set up time for a TSE lens and even AF becomes redundant. Even on my Canon 800 F5.6 L IS hand held IS is just a hindrance so on a short TSE lens? Looks pretty useless to me!
> 
> Again - am I missing something?



Not everyone is shooting on a tripod, artificial light or strong ambient light. In those circumstances, IS helps _every _focal length if your subject isn't moving.

Let's say in a low light environment a 24mm f/2 Lens without IS requires ISO 6400 @ f/2 @ 1/30s to get an appropriate exposure without shaky hands blurring the shot.

That same lens with 3 stops of IS allows you to:


Stop down for sharper image or to get more working DOF at the same exposure: f/5.6 @ ISO 6400 @ 1/4s, OR...


Walk the ISO back down to earth for better quality files with more latitude at the same exposure: f/2 @ ISO 800 @ 1/4s

Both of those things are super useful for the handheld shooter who didn't (or can't) bring light to the party. This lets you shoot in worse light handheld, or possibly leave the shutter open longer for waterfalls, etc.

It's also terrific for video.

- A


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## aceflibble (Jan 5, 2018)

johnf3f said:


> Interesting thoughts as I have little or no knowledge of the platforms (Instagram etc) that you mention. However I do know that IS hampers AF performance so why would one want IS on short lenses? Add to this the set up time for a TSE lens and even AF becomes redundant. Even on my Canon 800 F5.6 L IS hand held IS is just a hindrance so on a short TSE lens? Looks pretty useless to me!
> 
> Again - am I missing something?


The others have already mostly answered, so I'll just put it like this: IS and AF on a TS-E is as as equally useless to you as an 800mm is to 99% of other people.

Also, IS _aids_ AF, assuming both are implemented well. Try out the Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM sometime. It's only the early IS systems which held up AF.


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jan 5, 2018)

I seem to have stirred up a Hornets nest! Not my intention.

What is confusing me is the utility/usefulness of IS on a TSE lens. To use the flexibility and focal plane advantages of these lenses they need to be set up carefully and in the same place and angle rather than wandering about on an unstable human. Hence a tripod (or similar support) is needed - so why IS?

As In said "Again - am I missing something?", I was looking for constructive observations as I cannot see any use for IS on this sort of lens - but that does not mean that there is no use, it just means that I cannot see it and was looking to be enlightened. Silly me!


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## stevelee (Jan 5, 2018)

I can't imagine a scenario in which I would want to shoot a TS lens handheld. And even if I wanted to, I can't imagine being dextrous enough with only two hands to set it up.

I don't do Instagram, but I have been traveling over that last month, and it was remarkable watching people in some of the most scenic spots on earth mostly taking pictures of themselves. I conjecture that most of those pictures are destined for social media.

So maybe the idea is that a TS lens would be useful for making selfies?


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## ahsanford (Jan 5, 2018)

johnf3f said:


> I seem to have stirred up a Hornets nest! Not my intention.
> 
> What is confusing me is the utility/usefulness of IS on a TSE lens. To use the flexibility and focal plane advantages of these lenses they need to be set up carefully and in the same place and angle rather than wandering about on an unstable human. Hence a tripod (or similar support) is needed - so why IS?
> 
> As In said "Again - am I missing something?", I was looking for constructive observations as I cannot see any use for IS on this sort of lens - but that does not mean that there is no use, it just means that I cannot see it and was looking to be enlightened. Silly me!



I presume people are using T/S lenses handheld -- I presume for non-architectural / non-product applications, like arty portraits, video, food, etc.

Once you leave the tripod, IS naturally makes sense for the reasons I stated above.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jan 5, 2018)

stevelee said:


> I can't imagine a scenario in which I would want to shoot a TS lens handheld. And even if I wanted to, I can't imagine being dextrous enough with only two hands to set it up.
> 
> I don't do Instagram, but I have been traveling over that last month, and it was remarkable watching people in some of the most scenic spots on earth mostly taking pictures of themselves. I conjecture that most of those pictures are destined for social media.
> 
> So maybe the idea is that a TS lens would be useful for making selfies?



Tried to find some arty handheld T/S stuff on Shutterdial but they don't have a T/S category.

But here are a few links of what people are doing with these things these days:

Portraits: https://www.slrlounge.com/creating-artistic-portraits-using-tilt-shift-lens/
(can't confirm this was handheld, but I believe it may have been)

Because you don't want to use a tripod: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/hand-held-tiltshift/

Street: https://www.flickr.com/groups/handheldtiltshiftphotography/pool/

Because you can't bring a tripod indoors sometimes: https://luminous-landscape.com/handholding-the-tiltshift-lens-on-dslrs/

- A


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jan 5, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> johnf3f said:
> 
> 
> > I seem to have stirred up a Hornets nest! Not my intention.
> ...



I do about a third of my long lens photography hand held and most of my short lens photography is hand held. I use tripods for precise framing, playing around with filters, long exposures with a stopper on the front and where I am in one spot (hide etc) for a while. Whilst I am a tripod junkie - I prefer not to carry one unless I have to!

Without a tripod (I do not use IS with Tripods) I still find that I get sharper shots without IS. Naturally there is a limit to hand holding but shooting inside Medieval churches at F5.6 to F4 is still better with IS off (or not fitted). I still don't understand how IS would be useful if taking advantage of a TSE lens's capabilities.

If/when they come out I will certainly give them a go! Perhaps I will change my opinion - certainly possible, nothing is set in stone


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## ahsanford (Jan 5, 2018)

johnf3f said:


> Without a tripod (I do not use IS with Tripods) I still find that I get sharper shots without IS. Naturally there is a limit to hand holding but shooting inside Medieval churches at F5.6 to F4 is still better with IS off (or not fitted). I still don't understand how IS would be useful if taking advantage of a TSE lens's capabilities.
> 
> If/when they come out I will certainly give them a go! Perhaps I will change my opinion - certainly possible, nothing is set in stone



Responding to the red bit above:

*Decouple IS and T/S (and the big yet-to-be-done-lift of making those two technologies work together) from your mind.* Treat them as independent animals:


T/S for perspective / selective focus / creative opportunities


IS allows for longer handheld shutters that are not blurry from hand shake

Now put them together. You can do more with IS than without it. Take any handheld shot you want to do without IS -- including a T/S one -- and hold the shutter open longer. That's it. 

For example, with (say) 3 stops of IS, you could shoot your church shot at 8x less ISO or 3 stops narrower aperture for more DOF and net the same level of exposure:

Scenario A: if your acceptable handheld church shot at f/4 with a T/S lens requires ISO 6400 to pull it off with a fast enough shutter to avoid hand shake, you could take the same shot with T/S IS lens at f/4 + *ISO 800* and three times longer shutter. ISO 800 output is a little easier on the eye / more latitude / less noise to manage in post. That is a good thing.

Scenario B: if your acceptable handheld church shot at f/4 with a T/S lens requires ISO 6400 to pull it off with a fast enough shutter to avoid hand shake, you could also take the same shot with T/S IS lens at *f/11* + ISO 6400 and (again) three times longer shutter. f/11 output gets you more working DOF and possibly some sun stars from the lighting. That is also a good thing.

- A


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jan 6, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> johnf3f said:
> 
> 
> > Without a tripod (I do not use IS with Tripods) I still find that I get sharper shots without IS. Naturally there is a limit to hand holding but shooting inside Medieval churches at F5.6 to F4 is still better with IS off (or not fitted). I still don't understand how IS would be useful if taking advantage of a TSE lens's capabilities.
> ...



That was a long and interesting post - thanks for taking the time. I appreciate your insights.


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## Antono Refa (Jan 6, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> stevelee said:
> 
> 
> > I can't imagine a scenario in which I would want to shoot a TS lens handheld. And even if I wanted to, I can't imagine being dextrous enough with only two hands to set it up.
> ...



Hand held *without tilting*, hence without the selective focus that is apparently so fashionable.



ahsanford said:


> Street: https://www.flickr.com/groups/handheldtiltshiftphotography/pool/



Those are impressive photos, but I doubt all of those photos were indeed taken without tripod graphy/]other rig[/url].



ahsanford said:


> Because you can't bring a tripod indoors sometimes: https://luminous-landscape.com/handholding-the-tiltshift-lens-on-dslrs/



Again, hand held *without tilting*, and hence without selective focus.

Furthermore, I doubt the insta-crowd of social networks would drop a couple of grands on a tilt-shift lens.


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## RGF (Jan 9, 2018)

I only use my TS on a tripod. Thus IS would not be very useful.


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