# Patent: Hybrid Viewfinder



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 23, 2016)

```
<p>Canon has filed a patent for what appears to be a hybrid viewfinder.</p>
<p>Patent Publication No. 2016-35525 (Google Translated)</p>
<ul>
<li>Published 2016.3.17</li>
<li>Filing date 2014.8.4</li>
<li>During the pentagonal prism and the eyepiece optical system, providing two optical surface inclined</li>
<li>Since the light from the objective optical system is transmitted through the two optical surfaces, the photographer can observe the object</li>
<li>Since the light from the display optical system reflects the second optical surface and the first optical surface, the photographer can observe the</li>
<li>Display information</li>
<li>Display panel, display the shooting information at the time of the mirror-down, to display a live view image at the time of the mirror-up</li>
</ul>
<p>An english explanation from <a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html" target="_blank">Northlight</a></p>
<blockquote><p>The light from the EVF (top centre) is reflected left and then right to the eye. The split prism below the EVF combines this info with the normal view</p></blockquote>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## zim (Mar 23, 2016)

Is it true that patents appear just before a product release?
Oooo.... 5D4 anyone


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## 9VIII (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm thinking this would be more something you would see in an SL1 type body, a hybrid EF-M.

Giving people both the OVF and an EVF is an interesting idea. Kind of "best of both worlds", or at least different. At least I would be able to use fast aperture manual focus lenses.
If Canon is getting confident enough with their DPAF then maybe we'll finally see a few implementations with that as the sole focus mechanism (Everything EOS-M should have been DPAF from square one).


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## midluk (Mar 23, 2016)

9VIII said:


> I'm thinking this would be more something you would see in an SL1 type body, a hybrid EF-M.


If you have the mirror, you will not be able to use EF-M lenses. And this likely adds some size to the viewfinder and price to the body, so I don't see it in an SL1 type body.
This is more something for FF, where these factors do not matter too much.

If this goes into the 5D4, it would be Canons first pro mirrorless body — with a mirror. And then I would indeed understand that they don't call it 5D4 but 5DX, because it is a cross over of the 5D and a mirrorless.


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## bmwzimmer (Mar 23, 2016)

Well that would minimize most of the advantages of mirrorless systems. Smaller size used to be and advantage but not anymore. Give DSLR's an EVF and IBIS (Pentax already offers this) and you have the best of both worlds I think.


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## Luckshot (Mar 24, 2016)

So EVF through the viewfinder when in live view, and augmented reality display with the mirror down. 

Sounds cool.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 24, 2016)

They have had hybrid viewfinder patents in the past, so its something that they definitely are thinking about.


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## frankchn (Mar 24, 2016)

This is basically describing a better(?) implementation of the viewfinder system in the 1D X Mark II: http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Other/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-II/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-Viewfinder.jpg

If you replace the current "AF points superimpose optical display system" with a full LCD and a backlight, you will get a full electronic VF that can optionally superimpose things onto the normal OVF path.


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## deleteme (Mar 24, 2016)

bmwzimmer said:


> Well that would minimize most of the advantages of mirrorless systems. Smaller size used to be and advantage but not anymore. Give DSLR's an EVF and IBIS (Pentax already offers this) and you have the best of both worlds I think.



They definitely lose the advantage of size but I don't think that is a huge issue these days. As everyone realizes, lenses for FF erode the size advantage of ML.

They do lose the cost advantage though as this would be a lot more expansive to implement.
What they gain is the enormous advantage of an EVF. 

However this design seems more of a kludge than a breakthrough.

It would seem to make more sense to offer a mirrorless body with an EF adapter and start offering native lenses. I suspect that the DSLRs would lose a lot of customers as the ML AF gets better and the frame rate goes up.

The tech hammer will be swinging pretty hard in the next few years and its going to be aimed at ML camera and not ones with mirrors,


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 24, 2016)

This will require an entirely new body design.(not a 5D IV) The hold back on the concept was a lack of resolution in the small EVF. Today, that has improved to the point of being reasonable. I think I remember a comment by Canon of a big surprise coming. Maybe this is the "surprise". It would sure help when shooting video!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 24, 2016)

frankchn said:


> This is basically describing a better(?) implementation of the viewfinder system in the 1D X Mark II: http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Other/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-II/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-Viewfinder.jpg
> 
> If you replace the current "AF points superimpose optical display system" with a full LCD and a backlight, you will get a full electronic VF that can optionally superimpose things onto the normal OVF path.



Its purpose is so you can see the image in the viewfinder when the mirror is up and the optical path is blocked. This would be used in live view. You can also play back images and view them in the viewfinder.

It would make the liveview of a DSLR more usable for someone who was outdoors in bright sunshine.

This is nothing like the 1DX MK II.

Basically, this is a improvement on the two previous Canon patents which had some shortcomings resulting in either distorted images, or images that did not fill the viewfinder. I think it is still in need of improvement, but patents never tell you of shortcomings.

My suspicion is that the image will lack brightness and contrast.


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## wsmith96 (Mar 24, 2016)

So this is like a head up display for your camera? Maybe it will be used in conjunction with live view stills to get the frame rates really high. Gives you either/or.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 24, 2016)

wsmith96 said:


> So this is like a head up display for your camera? Maybe it will be used in conjunction with live view stills to get the frame rates really high. Gives you either/or.



When you put your Canon DSLR into live view mode, the viewfinder goes black because its blocked with the mirror. This projects the image into the viewfinder from a evf. The devil is in the details, its not easy to get that image projected into the viewfinder without distortion because its not a straight shot.


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 24, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> wsmith96 said:
> 
> 
> > So this is like a head up display for your camera? Maybe it will be used in conjunction with live view stills to get the frame rates really high. Gives you either/or.
> ...


They will have to use that wicked "L" glass formula and hyperbolic shapes.


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## wsmith96 (Mar 24, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> wsmith96 said:
> 
> 
> > So this is like a head up display for your camera? Maybe it will be used in conjunction with live view stills to get the frame rates really high. Gives you either/or.
> ...



I understand. I was thinking about sports shooters and the ability to still see the image in the view finder while getting a faster frame rate with no blackout. I agree that the image quality of the EVF is still blah, but there could be lots of applications where good enough is okay. It would also be neat if they used it to project real time data about the photo as you were looking through the view finder. Let's say you had a real time histogram or red and blue blinkies to allow you to make adjustments before you shoot. Wouldn't it be cool if you could customize the display and allow that overlay to be recorded on top of your image as you shoot it? There might be some use for that in the scientific or medical fields.

I need to patent this stuff fast


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## traveller (Mar 24, 2016)

I've often wondered about the possibility to do something like this. It would be great for hybrid users who want a fully capable DSLR combined with no compromise video features, as well as for landscape photographers to enable checking focus is brightly lit conditions without the use of a loupe hood. 

In short, I would absolutely love this feature on a future camera, but the main drawbacks will be price and increased bulk. Perhaps this could be for a 1D Xs? 

As a side note, how easy and cheap would it be for Canon to include an EOS-M style EVF interface port beneath the hotshot of their DSLRs? I can't understand why no manufacturer has yet done this.


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## Mancubus (Mar 24, 2016)

If this works as I think it does (and is implemented on the 5d4), it's the biggest DSLR improvement of the year for me. 

Being able to have that live view focusing for precision on large apertures would really help me out.

I've already had 4 dslr bodies and tried several lenses, but have never been able to consistently focus on some really large apertures and shallow dof's using the viewfinder, the autofocus misses so much that I simply give up on such apertures or use live view. The 85mm 1.8 wide open would get me 1 in 5 pictures with the focus right on the eye, even my 70-200mm 2.8 IS II will nail focus only about 50% of the time when shooting at 2.8 and 200mm.

I really hope this hybrid viewfinder fixes that.


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## photennek (Mar 24, 2016)

Mancubus said:


> If this works as I think it does (and is implemented on the 5d4), it's the biggest DSLR improvement of the year for me.
> 
> Being able to have that live view focusing for precision on large apertures would really help me out.
> 
> ...



+1

I don't have experience based on as many bodies, but my experience is the same, and my expectation for a hybrid viewfinder would be the benefit in exactly these kind of "high precision manual focusing" situations. Needless to say, not so applicable in fast moving situations, but portraiture etc. I'm getting excited...!!


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## Woody (Mar 24, 2016)

Maybe this will be implemented in a high-end FF mirrorless/SLR camera?


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## mb66energy (Mar 24, 2016)

If the 5D mark iii replacement is a "Next Step" in DSLR-Video combinations this should be inside that camera!
If I look at the internet news "papers" I see more and more video replacing photographs and articles - the 5D iii replacement might be a compact, not too expensive camera for independant photo+video journalists.


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## pierlux (Mar 24, 2016)

My, my, hey, hey, mirrorslap is here to stay,
Hey, hey, my, my, mirrorslap can never die.

Long live the mirrorslapper! ;D ;D ;D


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## rrcphoto (Mar 24, 2016)

for starters.

this is only a Japan patent application - I don't even think it's global yet.

Could be years before legally canon can use this, or puts this into a camera.

So people shouldn't be penciling this in for the next 5D,etc.

while a patent application dictates the date of invention, canon would have to be extremely confident that there would be no hiccups globally to rush it onto a production camera.

if there's any competing patents, it could be a significant lawsuit.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 24, 2016)

Also don't forget that patents are as much as stopping your competitors launching something with a clever new technology as it is about using the technology yourself. It would be interesting to go and do some analysis of past Canon patents in this field and see how many of them actually made it into real products, and after what delay.


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## frankchn (Mar 24, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> frankchn said:
> 
> 
> > This is basically describing a better(?) implementation of the viewfinder system in the 1D X Mark II: http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Other/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-II/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-Viewfinder.jpg
> ...



Sure, the 1DX2 system can't be used this way because you'll get nothing but some illuminated AF points visible with the mirror up. However, the optical system should be similar, since they both project an illuminated source into the viewfinder.


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## FramerMCB (Mar 24, 2016)

I liken this development and possible implementation as to being similar to a HUD display for a fighter pilot. Where as you look through the viewfinder at the image being photographed, superimposed on this is settings/exposure data. A very interesting concept. Allowing for easier 100% viewfinder images (rather than cropped to afford space for setting information viewed along the bottom or sides of the viewfinder image...


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## hubie (Mar 24, 2016)

zim said:


> Is it true that patents appear just before a product release?
> Oooo.... 5D4 anyone



Ask Apple that very question. The answer is no.


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## AshtonNekolah (Mar 25, 2016)

Lets make this happen instead of talking talking, make it happen fast and the fooling around with promises.


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## TAF (Mar 26, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> for starters.
> 
> this is only a Japan patent application - I don't even think it's global yet.
> 
> ...



It is usual practice for a global company like Canon to send out patent applications to all the major countries at the same time, to ensure maximum coverage for their IP.

Since the USPTO is about 2-3 years behind right now (an application I submitted in 2013 was just issued), I'd be confident that the US one will be appearing soon enough.

Not that Canon actually requires a patent to make and sell something.

And when you are big enough, the risk that someone might have beaten you to it is fairly small - if they put this in the 5D(?), and someone comes back and claims infringement, Canon can probably just buy them off. If it's a big company, they'll 'make a deal'.

So, we can have hope something new is coming.

Maybe.


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## xps (Mar 31, 2016)

*Canon patent for DSLR hybrid viewfinder design published*


New patent postet:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1155069571/canon-files-patent-for-design-of-hybrid-viewfinder-aimed-at-dslr-cameras


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## Maximilian (Apr 1, 2016)

*Re: Canon patent for DSLR hybrid viewfinder design published*

Sorry, was already posted and headline on March 23rd:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29415.msg586077#msg586077

Too many news lately already moved it to page 2 (older posts).


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## moreorless (Apr 2, 2016)

Fuji have fitted an improved EVF into the old X100 body so I'd imagine it need to be THAT large plus you could argue that extreme EVF quality wouldn't be needed if you have the OVF, more something for checking focus


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