# The Future of EOS M [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 26, 2013)

```
<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=13387"></g:plusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=13387">Tweet</a></div>
<strong>Sputtered out of the gate</strong>
The Canon EOS M system hasn’t been  the sales success Canon had hoped. Bad press about the autofocus and lack of lenses are probably big reasons why. There’s also a feeling Canon isn’t totally committed to the mirrorless market, as the segment hasn’t really been a dominant player in the United States, like it has in parts of Asia.</p>
<p>We’re told Canon plans to “relaunch” the system in the coming months with 2 new cameras. A direct replacement of the EOS M we have now, and a higher end model. The higher end model would get the viewfinder and other accessories. It’s also mentioned that the system could see as many as 3 new lenses launched in 2013 to give the system a better chance against the likes of M4/3 and NEX.</p>
<p>A new autofocus system will come with the new cameras and promises to be “class leading”.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


----------



## ddashti (Apr 26, 2013)

I can't really see much change if Canon "relaunches" this.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 26, 2013)

Dilemmas dilemmas. I'm about to buy an M+22mm+Adaptor.

Do I wait and see if the new model makes the current M drop even further in price?


----------



## nubu (Apr 26, 2013)

Paul, buy it! The new cams will be more expansive. I was thinking about this for months to add it to my 5DIII and 7D as a small back-up and always in the bag solution but it was too expansive. Now I got it in Austria for 390 euro including the 18-55 and the flash. That is really a bargain. I like it a lot. It is very well made. it makes fantastic pics (better than the 7D) and I have no problems with the focus in normal (not sport or wildlife) situations. It works very good with my EF collection from the 8-15 fisheye to the 500mm plus 1.4x. Buy it and be happy. Cheers


----------



## Rienzphotoz (Apr 26, 2013)

Well that gives me some comfort that I did not sink my money into the current version, coz on many occasions I thought of getting the EOS-M but just kept putting it off as it wasn't a priority for me ... maybe the newer version(s) might lure me into buying one :-\


----------



## Inspiron41 (Apr 26, 2013)

i would love to see their high end version be near 5D mark3 version.


----------



## lol (Apr 26, 2013)

I got the feeling the existing M was Canon reacting slowly to mirrorless, and when they eventually decided to join in, they wanted to get a product out faster (but still far later than everyone else), than get it out done well. They certainly have room for performance improvement and need to get competitive at least. To say they will aim for class leading is a bit of a challenge, one I'm not sure they will be able to reach. But for now we have to bare in mind it is a CR1 source saying that, not Canon.

Looking at the others, micro4/3 was slow AF when it first came out and they certainly sped it up. Same with Fuji. Can't remember about NEX, don't think they're that fast but they're not that bad either. And about the only good thing about the Nikon 1 was the AF, so that's more the exception than the rule. You would have thought that with Canon joining so late with the M they could have got it right first time...


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 26, 2013)

nubu said:


> Paul, buy it! The new cams will be more expansive. I was thinking about this for months to add it to my 5DIII and 7D as a small back-up and always in the bag solution but it was too expansive. Now I got it in Austria for 390 euro including the 18-55 and the flash. That is really a bargain. I like it a lot. It is very well made. it makes fantastic pics (better than the 7D) and I have no problems with the focus in normal (not sport or wildlife) situations. It works very good with my EF collection from the 8-15 fisheye to the 500mm plus 1.4x. Buy it and be happy. Cheers



I have my old camcorder on ebay just now, if it sells I'll be straight to the EOS M shop! Current prices very good and I love the form of the camera with the pancake.


----------



## Random Orbits (Apr 26, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Well that gives me some comfort that I did not sink my money into the current version, coz on many occasions I thought of getting the EOS-M but just kept putting it off as it wasn't a priority for me ... maybe the newer version(s) might lure me into buying one :-\



Although if it drops below 400 with the prime kits lens, I'd get it to replace the P&S...


----------



## WoodyWindy (Apr 26, 2013)

Between this, and the recent rumors about Canon rethinking the 70D sensor, I wonder if maybe someone at Canon is getting the idea that they need to reassert the lead in all major areas of the camera's design. It is no longer enough in this competitive landscape to be "good enough" to do the job - you need to be at least as good as the competition average in every respect (you can't bring up the rear in any specification - especially focus speed), and preferably exceed them in a few key areas.


----------



## infared (Apr 26, 2013)

lol said:


> Looking at the others, micro4/3 was slow AF when it first came out and they certainly sped it up. Same with Fuji. Can't remember about NEX, don't think they're that fast but they're not that bad either. And about the only good thing about the Nikon 1 was the AF, so that's more the exception than the rule. You would have thought that with Canon joining so late with the M they could have got it right first time...



Yeah...I thought Canon was going to be the mirrorless slayer with the "M", too. What a disappointment. This news is encouraging, but with Canon's arrogance I will have to just keep using my MFT kit and watch with a little smirk to see what they deliver. Hope that they WOW me though! I certainly would love to see a POWERFUL mirrorless offering. I think everyone with a Canon DSLR kit would pick one up just for a back-up body...and then be drawn in to buying some of the smaller lenses.


----------



## Shai (Apr 26, 2013)

Hello 
The problem is that the eos M looks like a plastic toy . 
The Fuji looks good , even the nikon looks good 
It's a meter of What Is transceiver. 
Unfortunately, Canon's camera looks cheap plastic . 
The canon design is ugly .
And last very Important detail - they must use - WI-FI & GPS - this is MUST !
Thanks every body 
SHAI


----------



## Ellen Schmidtee (Apr 26, 2013)

My eye is on the new lenses' price - will Canon catch on to the fact the world is in a recession, or will it shoot itself in the leg with three more overpriced lenses?


----------



## expatinasia (Apr 26, 2013)

nubu said:


> Paul, buy it! The new cams will be more expansive



Sorry, what? Why do you think they will be more expensive?

If Canon are relaunching the M, the company is basically admitting they missed the mark. Why on earth would they make it better, and then make it more expensive? And why would anyone buy an M now when a lot of the issues are about to be addressed?

Paul, I would recommend you not to buy the current model and wait till they fix all the problems with the new model.


----------



## Rienzphotoz (Apr 26, 2013)

Random Orbits said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > Well that gives me some comfort that I did not sink my money into the current version, coz on many occasions I thought of getting the EOS-M but just kept putting it off as it wasn't a priority for me ... maybe the newer version(s) might lure me into buying one :-\
> ...


Not a bad idea ... but wasn't there a deal recently mentioned in CR for around $396?


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 26, 2013)

But the problems folk have found aren't necessarily problems for me.

I have my 7D for the fast stuff. Even with a shorty forty my 600D wouldn't fit in my pocket. And the reviews I've seen all rate the M quite highly for video. Which is very useful for me. And the price is getting very right.


----------



## expatinasia (Apr 26, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> But the problems folk have found aren't necessarily problems for me.
> 
> I have my 7D for the fast stuff. Even with a shorty forty my 600D wouldn't fit in my pocket. And the reviews I've seen all rate the M quite highly for video. Which is very useful for me. And the price is getting very right.



That's all good, but when a company like Canon admits that there are issues with the current model and decides to relaunch it, then why not wait a couple of months. I personally do not see the price going up that much, if at all, as it is not a new model but a replacement of a model that had issues.

Look upon it a different way, if they do release a nice new replacement with brand new AF and other improvements and it is only US$ 50 more then you can either splash out or still buy a probably even cheaper original version. You win either way.


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 26, 2013)

Fix that AF & bring out FF.

I really want to see Canon kicks the RX1 in the Bbbb.....but I doubt it


----------



## traveller (Apr 26, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Fix that AF & bring out FF.



I agree with you on the first point, Canon built their modern reputation on their AF performance (1D MkIII aside...); to have the slowest AF in class on their mirorless entry is a PR disaster! 

I have to say that I disagree with you on the second point. Full frame is an issue that is confusing the mirrorless market, putting off potential buyers. I'm not trying to say that there aren't people that would be willing to pay $3000 on a mirroless camera, I just don't think that this segment is mass market enough for Canon _at this point in time_. Canon need to demonstrate their commitment to the EOS-M as a system if they expect pople to choose it over the competition; two lenses and a converter is not doing that.


----------



## infared (Apr 26, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...



That was $399 at big value with the 22mm f/2....but that has gone up to $449 now.


----------



## pdirestajr (Apr 26, 2013)

I was/ am surprised that thew EOS M doesn't even have a presence at my local Best Buy. Um, isn't that where it NEEDS to be?! It has no chance at success otherwise.


----------



## gjones5252 (Apr 26, 2013)

I was sorely disappointed in the EOS M. It was t a game changer at all so this news is somewhat exciting for me although I am not getting my hopes up. 
My opinion is that they could blow things away if they had a large sensor with some quick basic lenses. Go very simple on body design as well like x100s. I am very tempted right now to getting that camera. I know canon can come out with something better but it may not be good for business to do so.


----------



## eric_ykchan (Apr 26, 2013)

To throw the manufactured EOS-M into rubbish bin and then replace it by another similar model that will not sell well?


----------



## Random Orbits (Apr 26, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...



It was temporarily at 399, and I had that screen open on my computer for while I was trying to decide, and then the deal was over. Hopefully the price will drop further when Gen 2 comes out. It would be nice if the AF were better, but a P&S-equivalent AF is good enough being used as a P&S, and for 400, it's not a bad deal knowing that I can use it as a backup (however painful) and maintain compatibility with all my lenses. Better than the S90 we used to have (before it met its early demise in a pool) and better than the HS230 that we currently have. The 22mm lens is fine for snapshots and as a walkaround, which is how my wife would use it. I wouldn't bother with any other EOS-M lenses though. They're too slow for indoor use and Canon's APS-C sensors aren't that clean at high ISOs.


----------



## hiplnsdrftr (Apr 26, 2013)

Or just buy a Nikon A and don't worry about what half baked reiteration Canon comes out with...

As a CPS member, I'm fine with my 1Dx, 1Ds3 etc... I've given up on Canon otherwise.


----------



## Act444 (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm more interested in the lenses they come up with. The current one is serving me just fine- I've been taking it out recently and the more I use it, the more I like it...if I need the AF performance (or IQ), I've already got the DSLR. 

I wish they'd come out with a relatively fast ~50mm lens with IS that doesn't add considerable bulk to the camera. Between that, the 22 and the 18-55 I'd be all set for that system.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 26, 2013)

expatinasia said:


> That's all good, but when a company like Canon admits that there are issues with the current model and decides to relaunch it, then why not wait a couple of months. I personally do not see the price going up that much, if at all, as it is not a new model but a replacement of a model that had issues.



Where did canon admit anything? It's not in their DNA.

And launching a new camera or expanding a range, isn't that the norm?

And the successors price? It won't be $50 more. Not for the first 6 months at least. So that wait becomes 9 months.


----------



## HarryWintergreen (Apr 26, 2013)

I've got the Fuji x100s which really is a jewel. I'm not a since-I-got-my-mirrorless-I-don't-ever-use-my-dslr-gear-again-guy, but there are at least two things Canon seems to turn a blind eye to. Street photography is what many people seek in times of a suffocating trend towards photographic perfection. And it's such a joy to use a tool made by a company listening to customers.


----------



## distant.star (Apr 26, 2013)

.
I don't know what reality may or may not emerge from this. But after reading it, my gut, emotional reaction is "Yeah, yeah, yeah...blah, blah, blah."


----------



## jcollett (Apr 26, 2013)

Shai said:


> Hello
> The problem is that the eos M looks like a plastic toy .
> The Fuji looks good , even the nikon looks good
> It's a meter of What Is transceiver.
> ...



If the EOS-M had Wi-Fi and GPS running along with a lens with IS going, the battery may only get like 40 shots on a charge! They may need to develop a battery grip for the body to drive all these extra features.


----------



## c.d.embrey (Apr 26, 2013)

*Three NEW lenses.* Or three NEW Kit Zoomz ??? Me, I'm wanting a f/4.5-f/8 18-400mm


----------



## Pieces Of E (Apr 26, 2013)

I dropped $900 on the EOS-M package with the 22mm, the EF lens adaptor and I haven't even charged the battery yet. Why? Because of the bad press on the slow AF and the bad rumour of a firmware update that hasn't materialized. Today, I just ordered the EF-S 18-135 STM lens, with hood and Tiffen ND .03 filter because I had $250 worth of Amazon gift cards from Christmas. Damnit, I am now totallly commited to this thing come hell or high water. Like *Paul13walnu*t5 here, I bought this camera to only shoot video because I have a 7D for stills. My wife is pissed at me for spending the money and not using the camera yet, so here I go. I am also watching MagicLantern closely as they develop their software package for the EOS-M and really want to see where it all goes. My video background goes back to the 1990's when Sony introduced the Digital 8 format and their first VAIO Digital Studio pc packaged with Adobe Premiere LT. I still have the TRV-103 camera, a VX-2000 mini DV cam, a recent model Panasonic AVCHD camera and Premiere Pro CS-5.5, soon to be CS-6. I'm gonna see what the EOS-M will do with my slight arrray of EF and EF-S lenses. When I shoot something decent, I'll be sure and share and enjoy the critiques! . Happy Friday everyone.


----------



## preppyak (Apr 26, 2013)

expatinasia said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > But the problems folk have found aren't necessarily problems for me.
> ...


Because the EOS-M, on launch, was $799 for that kit. The new EOS-M, at cheapest, will be $799.

Currently the EOS-M is $469 at Amazon, which means its probably going for $400 in some deals. That's half off...so, why wait for improvements you dont really need when the price is 50% off.


----------



## Ivar (Apr 26, 2013)

HarryWintergreen said:


> I've got the Fuji x100s which really is a jewel. I'm not a since-I-got-my-mirrorless-I-don't-ever-use-my-dslr-gear-again-guy, but there are at least two things Canon seems to turn a blind eye to. Street photography is what many people seek in times of a suffocating trend towards photographic perfection. And it's such a joy to use a tool made by a company listening to customers.



Same here, not a single moment of hesitation when I decided for the Fuji 100s. 
Canon seems too conservative and protective: too late, too little, use the same old tech. That for well established mirrorless/bigger sensor compact market. Sounds crazy to me. The Fuji x100 was crazy too looking at the issues, but they were first, and there was something in it which resonated.


----------



## Lee Jay (Apr 26, 2013)

infared said:


> I think everyone with a Canon DSLR kit would pick one up just for a back-up body...and then be drawn in to buying some of the smaller lenses.



Everyone? Wanna bet?


----------



## t.linn (Apr 26, 2013)

I have to admit that I'm happy the response to this product has been tepid. Sometimes I think that Canon believes it can put out a product which isn't remotely competitive and, because it says "Canon" on it, people will pay whatever price Canon chooses to charge. Maybe someone over at Canon HQ will realize that protecting their existing product line is not the best long term strategy.


----------



## QBNY (Apr 26, 2013)

All Canon needs to do is make a G12 mirrorless with a proper sensor. They don't need to make a new body, Take the G12, make it able to swap lenses and they'll have a hit.


----------



## East Wind Photography (Apr 26, 2013)

I really don't know what the big deal is. The AF system could be much improved by using 1/2 of the pixels for AF and the other half for a view finder (Interlaced). Once locked, all pixels go to the RAW image. This mirror requirement and the old school live view AF system is so out of date. It's no wonder the M didn't take off.

I would definitely consider an M if it had AF as good as the other EOS DSLRs and an improved frame rate because of the lack of mirror.

Lenses are not a big deal for me. I would never buy an M lens anyway...maybe just small one for street shooting. EOS lenses will be the way to go. Adapter should be included with the camera.



QBNY said:


> All Canon needs to do is make a G12 mirrorless with a proper sensor. They don't need to make a new body, Take the G12, make it able to swap lenses and they'll have a hit.


----------



## robbinzo (Apr 26, 2013)

I was about to go for it and buy a 5d iii but since I'm not a pro I doubt that I will get enough use out of it to justify the price. I have also realised that in most situations now i dislike carting around bulky gear.
I really liked the look of the Sony RX1 but the price is horrific & the autofocus mediocre. The Fujifilm X100S sounds terrific from the reviews. The X100S sensor has built in phase detect pixels & has a great AF system as a result.
Now, this new eos m has my attention if canon can better the X100S. I'm in no hurry to buy a new camera so I don't mind waiting to see how this pans out.
I wouldn't mind seeing 240 fps video in future eos m models. Nikon have a strange aspect ratio in their nikon 1 high speed video which I don't like at all.
Just hoping that someone at canon reads these threads...


----------



## QBNY (Apr 26, 2013)

Here Ya go, Canon...

Don't want a check, just make it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8684740754/#


----------



## infared (Apr 26, 2013)

Lee Jay said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > I think everyone with a Canon DSLR kit would pick one up just for a back-up body...and then be drawn in to buying some of the smaller lenses.
> ...



yeah...if Canon can keep the price reasonable (good luck with that, tho), make it focus uber fast, have a great viewfinder and and comes out with some small fast primes people would want it to complement their FF or CF kit...but certainly as I mention in my post (you cut and copied the above out of context just to bash!) as the M is now...I cannot see many people who come to this site considering it for anything.


----------



## dickgrafixstop (Apr 26, 2013)

None as far as I'm concerned. Rather have a G1X for a 'small' body (which seemed to be the tune canon itself was playing before the M was announced) - and if you put a regular eos mount on it you'd have a winner.


----------



## RGomezPhotos (Apr 26, 2013)

I really want to like the EOS M, but it just doesn't have it. At this point it would have to be 2x as good for me to get interested...


----------



## SonomaTim (Apr 26, 2013)

HarryWintergreen said:


> I've got the Fuji x100s which really is a jewel. I'm not a since-I-got-my-mirrorless-I-don't-ever-use-my-dslr-gear-again-guy, but there are at least two things Canon seems to turn a blind eye to. Street photography is what many people seek in times of a suffocating trend towards photographic perfection. And it's such a joy to use a tool made by a company listening to customers.



I used a friends EOS M for a weekend, but it just didn't do anything for me. I wanted a viewfinder. I tried the X100 and while it was quirky, the hybrid viewfinder sold me. Now I have the X100S which is even better. The ironic thing is that the X100S reminds me so much of my old Canon Canonet rangefinder. I've been a Canon user for over 40 years, but Canon lost me with the M. I'm not giving up my 5DIII (yet) but the X100S has become my everyday go-to camera.


----------



## tallrob (Apr 26, 2013)

The real problem with Canon and the M is that they threw it out like it was gold and just left it hung out to dry when it didn't receive accolades. They never released a firmware update to address the AF (later claiming it wasn't possible -BS) or the lack of a true Servo AF, or the fact that switching to MF required a trip through the menus. Any of that would have been a gesture of support. So they've abandoned the current model and early adopters who had high hopes for this potentially great but flawed camera. Now it's on extreme clearance sale to underscore the abandonment.

I bought mine during the first discount wave. It's a good camera with great IQ and the touch screen is amazing. The AF is just barely sometimes a problem. Learn it's quirks and you can get around them. The MF switching is just stupid. Servo drives me a little nuts. Otherwise I love it and just wish Canon would have shown a little more support. I probably won't buy another one and might just ditch my 5Dii and L lenses for a Fuji system. Canon's and Fuji's next moves will decide it for me. Fuji seems dedicated to customers. Canon not so much.


----------



## expatinasia (Apr 26, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Where did canon admit anything? It's not in their DNA.
> 
> And launching a new camera or expanding a range, isn't that the norm?
> 
> And the successors price? It won't be $50 more. Not for the first 6 months at least. So that wait becomes 9 months.



This is a CR1, so nothing may happen, but if it is true then that in itself is Canon basically admitting they made a mistake. This is not a new model in a series, like going from 5D Mark 1 to II to III, this is a replacement. That is also why I do not think it would be that much more expensive than it is now. Yes, Canon has a trend of new lenses, bodies being expensive when they first come out etc., but this is not a new camera, its a replacement. If the CR1 is true, I would expect the replacement to be of a similar price to the current M, the new M - that second body - will be more of course, but that is to be expected.


----------



## Lee Jay (Apr 27, 2013)

infared said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > infared said:
> ...



I wouldn't want it if it could walk on water. I hate EVFs and non-TTL OVFs, and I hate bodies that are too small for my hands. This one is too small for my 9-year-old's hands.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 27, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Dilemmas dilemmas. I'm about to buy an M+22mm+Adaptor.
> 
> Do I wait and see if the new model makes the current M drop even further in price?


I'd hold off unless you have need for one. the SL-1 would be a better choice until they come out with something better.


----------



## Hobby Shooter (Apr 27, 2013)

I think this sounds interesting. It often take these big companies a while to get it right.

I have an outdoor portrait session booked for next weekend. I will shoot with my 5D3, but will also try an M with the 22mm. It'll be interesting to compare.


----------



## moreorless (Apr 27, 2013)

infared said:


> yeah...if Canon can keep the price reasonable (good luck with that, tho), make it focus uber fast, have a great viewfinder and and *comes out with some small fast primes* people would want it to complement their FF or CF kit...but certainly as I mention in my post (you cut and copied the above out of context just to bash!) as the M is now...I cannot see many people who come to this site considering it for anything.



The ironic thing for me is that dispite only having two lenses this is the area where Canon seems already to be to have an advanatge over Sony. Obviously the lineup is smaller but in terms of lenses I'd actually want to use the 22mm is both cheaper and faster than the Sony equivilent while the kit lens seems like it outperforms the Sony to a considerable degree aswell.

Personally I'd say the M's failiure thus far seems to partly be down to Canon's very SLR like approach to the market being a mismatch for mirrorless. Its a market where "sexy" rather than "dependable" sells IMHO, the casual user probabley has no idea of lens performance while the more serious user probabley looks past cheaper lenses.

The AF is obviously an issue but the original X100 was by all accounts hardly a speed demon but we heard much less about it because the camera had more in the way of "sexy" features.


----------



## RGF (Apr 27, 2013)

expatinasia said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > But the problems folk have found aren't necessarily problems for me.
> ...



+1000. Fix AF, no need for FF for me. I'd be happy with a mirrorless camera which will take my EF lenses (not EF-S) and has good AF. I good use as a backup in a pinch.


----------



## gmrza (Apr 27, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Well that gives me some comfort that I did not sink my money into the current version, coz on many occasions I thought of getting the EOS-M but just kept putting it off as it wasn't a priority for me ... maybe the newer version(s) might lure me into buying one :-\



If they fix the AF, bring out a model with a viewfinder and a wired shutter release socket, and also introduce a better sensor, I will be very inclined to look at it.


----------



## sanj (Apr 27, 2013)

Lee Jay said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



I have a need for a small body with EVF. Yes do.


----------



## ecka (Apr 27, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> A new autofocus system will come with the new cameras and promises to be “class leading”.



If so, then why did Canon put the crappy old CDAF in their 700D/T5i?.. or, maybe, 700D/T5i CDAF is “class leading” as well, but they are just too humble to call it that way ?


----------



## mb66energy (Apr 27, 2013)

I think that a compact EOS M with a *FF sensor* and *EF* mount would be a very interesting camera. Perhaps the cube shaped design of ancient medium format cameras will help to make it even more compact (not smaller in terms of volume) and help to stow away that camera easily. I think about a cube of roughly 80 x 80 x 80mm³ which too is compact with the 2.8 40 attached and fits in lens compartments with e.g. a 2.8 16-35 lens.

An EF-M-mount system EOS M with the 2.0 22 might find a way into my hands if it has a EVF and a RAW mode with 10 or 12 MPix.


----------



## Marsu42 (Apr 27, 2013)

At least this [CR1] together with other rumors or facts tells us where the Canon r&d resources go:

Into the emerging mirrorless market and high-end video, so there's little left to develop new "old-school" dlsrs (see 550d, 600d, 650d, 700d, ...) or replace the old L-lenses except for cash-cows like the delayed 200-400L.


----------



## ecka (Apr 27, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> At least this [CR1] together with other rumors or facts tells us where the Canon r&d resources go:
> 
> Into the emerging mirrorless market and high-end video, so there's little left to develop new "old-school" dlsrs (see 550d, 600d, 650d, 700d, ...) or replace the old L-lenses except for cash-cows like the delayed 200-400L.



Obviously,  the _new_ *EF-S* 18-55'IS'STM kit lens feels cheap and plasticky compared to *EF-M* 18-55'IS'STM. It's almost like Canon's marketing management is going bananas since 7D and for an average user all the progress can be described in 3 words - touch-screen, Digic5, 40STM. I think I will be boycotting their _"affordable/entry level"_ FF offering this year. Going back to _crop_ may be painful, but the EU prices for an underspeced 6D are just stupidly high (body only ~$2400 in my area). I've sold my 5D2 already :-\, so I may try the mirrorless thing after all.


----------



## Singsling (Apr 27, 2013)

I think the M is a dead duck, just went out and bought the 100D/SL1 for my Girlfriend and wow, what a lovely little Camera, sure winner for Canon and a delight for us shooters when it gets going. Trouble is I am going to have to get another one for myself now. Mounted a "shorty forty' 24-70 mk 2 and 70-200 love it. Tried to buy just the Body in Singapore, no stock yet so I had to take it with the kit Lens, which is really nice too.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 27, 2013)

I just bought one new on eBay for $340 with the 22mm lens. They are also available with the 18-55 lens for $370. I picked one up, and have been playing with it for a couple of days. It's well worth the money.

For the dude saying it looks cheap/plasticky... the shell is metal. It's a very well made, sturdy compact.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with it so far. The 3 things you should be aware of with it are:

1) It is much slower to focus than a DSLR with a viewfinder. If you want to get an idea of how slow, put your DSLR in Live View and spend some time setting your focus that way. The EOS-M behaves in the same manner. This could be sped up with a firmware update, but honestly, so long as you aren't shooting sports or wildlife, you'll be fine.

2) AEB is limited to 3 shots. I do a lot of HDR, so this is kind of a let down.

3) In my very quick test of recording video, the STM lens makes quite a bit of noise and was actually louder than the audio I was trying to record. Granted, the audio was quiet, but still, the STM noise was very loud on the recording. 

Overall, for a camera of this price and size, and capability, I'm very happy. I ordered the 18-55 lens (which can be found for about $180 on ebay new as well), and will be taking this as my only kit on my trip to Tokyo later this. 

It's not a 5DMIII in features, but it's a capable camera that won't require you to lug a huge bag around with you either.



Random Orbits said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > Well that gives me some comfort that I did not sink my money into the current version, coz on many occasions I thought of getting the EOS-M but just kept putting it off as it wasn't a priority for me ... maybe the newer version(s) might lure me into buying one :-\
> ...


----------



## ecka (Apr 27, 2013)

serpicolugnut said:


> For the dude saying it looks cheap/plasticky... the shell is metal. It's a very well made, sturdy compact.



No offence, but please read again, dude . I was talking about the EF-S being cheap/plasticky compared to EF-M metal shell.
Any comments on EOS-M battery life? How many spares are you taking on a trip?


----------



## dickgrafixstop (Apr 27, 2013)

While I've been critical of the M in past posts, I've just thought of an "improvement" that would make me
consider one - a native FD mount to be able to use legacy lenses for video. A FD adapter might fill the bill 
since a native mount would not make it past the beancounters and may actually be physically required -
even canon can't change the laws of physics - but the M4/3 guys seem to do well with a variety of adpaters.


----------



## infared (Apr 27, 2013)

serpicolugnut said:


> I just bought one new on eBay for $340 with the 22mm lens. They are also available with the 18-55 lens for $370. I picked one up, and have been playing with it for a couple of days. It's well worth the money.
> 
> For the dude saying it looks cheap/plasticky... the shell is metal. It's a very well made, sturdy compact.
> 
> ...



Although if it drops below 400 with the prime kits lens, I'd get it to replace the P&S...
[/quote]
[/quote]

That is why I went with MFT for my compact kit. The M just doesn't cut it in so many ways....but at least NOW (because they are not selling)...the price reflects the value.


----------



## northbyten (Apr 27, 2013)

Simply it failed because Canon didn't market it as a successor, they awkwardly put it on the side so it wouldn't eat their DSLR sales.

I'm sure if Canon markets it as a all in one NEX competitor they'd be getting somewhere.


----------



## botw (Apr 28, 2013)

dickgrafixstop said:


> While I've been critical of the M in past posts, I've just thought of an "improvement" that would make me
> consider one - a native FD mount to be able to use legacy lenses for video. A FD adapter might fill the bill
> since a native mount would not make it past the beancounters and may actually be physically required -
> even canon can't change the laws of physics - but the M4/3 guys seem to do well with a variety of adpaters.



Adapters exist and work just fine (no glass required).


----------



## wickidwombat (Apr 29, 2013)

they should give us beta testers a good trade in deal on the replacement 

but in all seriousness magic lantern has made this a pretty decent little unit for certain uses
that is anything that does not involve remotely strenuous AF


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 29, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> but in all seriousness magic lantern has made this a pretty decent little unit for certain uses
> that is anything that does not involve remotely strenuous AF



How stable is ML on the M wickid?
Does it unlock the 4GB limitation... I really want an M for discreet video, and if it can be hacked to allow longer run times (without messing with quality) then I'd be in.


----------



## Marsu42 (Apr 29, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> How stable is ML on the M wickid? Does it unlock the 4GB limitation... I really want an M for discreet video, and if it can be hacked to allow longer run times (without messing with quality) then I'd be in.



ML on eos m is alpha, i.e. not nearly near production quality since it's a newer digic5-camera. Afaik they don't get around the 4gb barrier atm - you can format the card with the exFAT filesystem that allows for larger files, but the Canon fw is quite strict to enforce the 30min or 4gb limitation. However ml always had an "instant restart" so that you get consecutive clips after 30min/4gb. 

Feel free to look at the dev thread and ask any specific questions there: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3648.0


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 29, 2013)

Cheers Marsu,

I'm lazy. I'd rather speak to somebody who understands it all and can speak to me in plain lanuage. I don't do scripting or coding, and to make matters worse I'm also on a mac, I find the ML forums and wiki page just a little user unfriendly.


----------



## Marsu42 (Apr 29, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I find the ML forums and wiki page just a little user unfriendly.



I understand that and recently mentioned it to the devs, suggesting a "what does ml actually do for me?" page - they simply don't have the menpower to beef up the wiki, actually the team consists of one main dev (alex), maybe 3 people hacking and then another 3 submitting patches now and then... 

... so the bottom line is that ml is great, mostly self-explanatory but you have to be willing to put some time into playing with the options. But in newer builds you can hide things you don't need so you never see them again, so in your case just enable the movie menu with the "restart recodring" option.

But installation is really easy (there seems to be a video for the mac: http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/File:HOW_TO_INSTALL_MAGIC_LANTERN_ON_A_MAC_AND_UPDATE_MAGIC_LANTERAN):
1. update the camera fw once with the ml firmware, this only sets the loader flag in the Canon fw
2. enable the boot flag on the/all cards that should have ml
3. copy the ml files - mainly autoexec.bin - to the/all cards.


----------



## 7enderbender (Apr 29, 2013)

Can't they just make it a M9 equivalent for a quarter of the price of the Leica? I still want a "full frame" range finder with manual focus, optical viewfinder and two or three small, fast standard lenses (28, 55, 90). Shouldn't be too hard and would sell like hotcakes I assume.

And they could indeed recycle their FD mount with that.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 29, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > I find the ML forums and wiki page just a little user unfriendly.
> ...



Cheer Marsu, grateful for your advice as ever.


----------



## Rocky (Apr 30, 2013)

7enderbender said:


> Can't they just make it a M9 equivalent for a quarter of the price of the Leica? I still want a "full frame" range finder with manual focus, optical viewfinder and two or three small, fast standard lenses (28, 55, 90). Shouldn't be too hard and would sell like hotcakes I assume.
> 
> And they could indeed recycle their FD mount with that.


Canon was making Japanese version (even with better feature) of M4 until 1969 (?). The price difference at that time is only less than 25% or less. Now you want Canon to make a version of M9 for 1/4 of M9. That will be a very nice dream.


----------



## wickidwombat (Apr 30, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > but in all seriousness magic lantern has made this a pretty decent little unit for certain uses
> ...



I've been running the alpha for a while now and it still spilts vids into 4GB parts but i think thats a FAT thing isnt it? it does automatically restart so you get continuous video just in 4GB blocks.

It gets pretty hot when running for a while i havent really recorded longer than an hour continuously, i've used it with the samyang 8mm to record a few wedding ceremonies now and i'm happy with the performance.
the focus peaking and othe ML features are awesome too and it has a really nice clear screen.
I think with the recent price drops this little guy is pretty sweet light weight vid cam with ML on it
I like it how when you format the card it automatically reinstalls the ML files
I havent had any issues with the alpha ML so far


----------



## Kelt0901 (Apr 30, 2013)

Hi all, first post here. I bought this kit with an EOS adaptor, it was to replace my well used G9. I am very happy with the M, it is a vast improvement over my G9. This is used as a PS and exceeds my expectations, perhaps I am now at 67 years, easily pleased. Know the limitations and just take photos. The image quality is exceptional.
I would love a FF Mirror less and be able to use my L series lenses with it. I won’t be holding my breath waiting; it would kill a lot of DSLR sales.
I got it out of Hong Kong for about A$400.00 cheaper than the best local Australian price.
Good points	It takes great photos.
Bad points	Physically too small for big hands.
No viewfinder.
Slow AF but, very usable.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 30, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...



Thanks for sharing wickid, all useful to know.
You hit the nail on the head, I knew we are stuck with fat32 limitations at the back of my head, it was the contiguous recording I tried and failed to articulate.

How instantaneous is the new clip? Do you drop any frames between clips or can they be edited together seamlessly?

Many thanks


----------



## Marsu42 (Apr 30, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> I've been running the alpha for a while now and it still spilts vids into 4GB parts but i think thats a FAT thing isnt it? it does automatically restart so you get continuous video just in 4GB blocks.



No, it's a fat32 thing (fixed by formatting the card with the new exfat filesystem in windows, then you can dump 4g+ files on the card) *and* a firmware restriction to protect the "real" video cameras and for tax reasons in the european union. At least on my 60d, it stops at 4gb or 30min, whichever comes first.



paul13walnut5 said:


> How instantaneous is the new clip? Do you drop any frames between clips or can they be edited together seamlessly?



You definitely loose frames, how much may depend on the camera model - it's like having the software pressing the "record" button as fast as it can. Any you always *could* just try ml yourself and then see


----------



## Sella174 (Apr 30, 2013)

The future of EOS M ... none.

In my opinion Canon should (a) chuck the EF-M system, (b) join the m4/3 consortium, and (c) make a functional EF-to-m43 translation adapter.


----------



## Hobby Shooter (Apr 30, 2013)

Sella174 said:


> The future of EOS M ... none.
> 
> In my opinion Canon should (a) chuck the EF-M system, (b) join the m4/3 consortium, and (c) make a functional EF-to-m43 translation adapter.


You'd think that until they own the market in two years.


----------



## Sella174 (Apr 30, 2013)

Hobby Shooter said:


> You'd think that until they own the market in two years.



Which market? Mirrorless as a whole, or just m4/3?


----------



## Hobby Shooter (Apr 30, 2013)

Sella174 said:


> Hobby Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > You'd think that until they own the market in two years.
> ...



;D


----------



## Bob Howland (Apr 30, 2013)

Sella174 said:


> The future of EOS M ... none.
> 
> In my opinion Canon should (a) chuck the EF-M system, (b) join the m4/3 consortium, and (c) make a functional EF-to-m43 translation adapter.



Huh?? Doing that makes no sense at all. It would put them at the mercy of Olympus and Panasonic, mostly Olympus. Canon would still have to introduce lenses, although maybe (repeat: maybe!!) not as many as with the EF-M system. Canon 4/3 camera owners might buy other manufacturers' lenses instead and Canon would have to guarantee that Canon bodies work with their lenses and their bodies work with Canon lenses. What a mess!

Better for Canon to introduce (1) better EF-M bodies, (2) some very small native lenses, perhaps eight total, and (3) an extremely high quality EF-to-EF-M Metabones Speed Booster-type adapter, except with a 1-1/3 stop improvement.

I own a G10. I want one part of the EF-M system to evolve into something the same size (or slightly larger) but with much better high ISO image quality.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Apr 30, 2013)

My 2 cents.

If canon can nail the Af issue, even if it means reverting to contrast detection only, then they are onto a winner.

They have a market of EF-s and EF users with lenses waiting to be used, a nice solid camera which has the concessions folk already live with when using most compact or compact system type cameras.

I don't see the point of a whole new line of EF-M lenses. ALL CSCs are bulky when they have anything other than a pancake on them, so just go with it. It makes sense to have the 18-55 M as it's most folks walkabout lens. Other than that if you want good reach and a big sensor you need a big camera. When you want a discreet compact camera use the pancake lens.

In the mean time canon could make the pancake lens a real winner by introducing, via firmware, a zone or hyperfocal mode for the pancake. Say 1.5m to infinity at something like f8. No need for slow AF. Just point and shoot and everything in range will be reasonably sharp. It would be a perfect street shooter.


----------



## ecka (Apr 30, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> My 2 cents.
> 
> If canon can nail the Af issue, even if it means reverting to contrast detection only, then they are onto a winner.
> 
> ...



+1

I hear a lot of people choosing 100D/SL1 over EOS-M, for different reasons (better grip, better AF, pop-up flash, viewfinder, longer battery life, etc).


----------



## pj1974 (May 6, 2013)

On the weekend (here in Australia, it's Monday afternoon already) - I went to my local dedicated photography store, and handled the EOS M. I was impressed with the small size with the 22mm f/2.8 lens attached (that lens is really small).

The EOS M and 22mm lens is definitely of the 'slip inside a handbag / manbag' size. The build quality and weight spoke of quite decent materials being used.

However the AF was really very slow. In a fairly well lit store, it didn't appear much quicker than my 7D's "Live View" AF (which I consider impractically slow apart from tripod landscape work). I haven't used a P&S in quite a while (occasionally tourists will ask me to take a photo with their P&S along a beach, etc). So I can't really compare to 'average' P&S cameras of todau - as the last time I owned and used my P&S was about 8 years ago.

The salesperson at the store shared that yes, the EOS M had not sold well at all. In fact she said that only a very few people after trying it in store felt it was the camera for them. Who tried the EOS M eventually either purchased an entry level DSLR or a decent P&S, and most were not happy with the AF (for the price / potential).

This is understandable, and I wouldn't buy the current EOS M - mainly due to what you get for the price, compared to a good P&S or even moreso an entry level DSLR. (The saleswoman also indicated she thought it was silly having the small EOS M mounted behind huge EF lenses - I agree). Not user friendly in that case.

I do think if 2 things could be improved upon, the EO SM camera would have more potential:
- the AF to have quick snappy acquisition and very accurate focus
- there to be more (specifically small size) high quality lenses.

Let's see the future... your call, Canon!

Paul


----------



## Marsu42 (May 6, 2013)

pj1974 said:


> However the AF was really very slow. In a fairly well lit store, it didn't appear much quicker than my 7D's "Live View" AF (which I consider impractically slow apart from tripod landscape work).



I'd really like some inside information why Canon thought they could get away with this. The speed of the 7d/60d-style live view af is a joke and really only for tripod work (though I like Magic Lantern focus peaking better), but if the eos m is not much better Canon seems to have skipped all field tests or they have beta testers who say "yes, great" to everything?

Or maybe the eos m is just a test model for mirrorless (just like Win8 for MS' new ui) and was scheduled to be replaced in no time anyway? In the latter case, that doesn't build trust in Canon as a premium brand.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (May 6, 2013)

I tried an m instore. But I didn't just pick it up, point and shoot.

I went into the menus snd tinkered.

Single point select.

Continuous af off.

Af+mf on.

Selected centre of screen as active af cell.

Point focus lock recompose. I'd say about as fast as my 600d.

In reflex pd mode that is. Not live view.

So that's fairly fast.

Here's my take:

For the folk who don't understand af, or who are scared to tinker thete is an easy user friendly accurate fairly intelligent but fairly pedestrian 'hey let me do all the work for you mode'

As you would expect given the likely target market.

But if you tinker a bit and narrow down the choices the camera has to make then it's actually a snappy wee system, not a sports camera, but fast enough for everything else and fast enough for enthuiasts, a wedding b camera etc.

I'm not a huge fan of AF, perhaps coning from a video background I understand better it's limitations. Where I use af with success i've spent time cracking the manual. Folk knocked the ecf on the 3: I thought it the best thing since sliced bread, folk knocked the af on 7d, i'm fairly confident most of those knocking didn't understand all the options.

I think most folk knocking the m af are using it in granny mode right out the box.

I'm very particular about af, suspicious of it almost. If you grab the m by the scruff if the neck and tell it exactly what you want from it, it will obey. But i'll still use my 7d for very fast sports.

The lack of remote socket and live view tethering are a little bit of a let down (could be the perfect timelapse camera otherwise) but otherwise my brief experience doesn't tally with the negative reviews.

I'm really getting very excited about the ding dong from dhl. More than I can recall for any other camera I've ever owned, since except maybe my zenit horizon!


----------



## expatinasia (May 6, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I think most folk knocking the m af are using it in granny mode right out the box.



I stood behind a professional photographer friend at a sporting event not that long ago, and in a break he got out the M and started messing with it (and all its settings) for about 20 minutes, trying to get it to focus on people walking, and on some static objects. He was using a 400 f/2.8 ii with it and is no spring chicken, so he knows what he is doing, and I see him quite often as some of the things we cover seem to overlap.

The AF was laughably slow, it hunted and hunted. You almost have sufficient time to go and make a cup of tea, and by the time you get back it will hopefully have locked. There were times when you thought it had a lock, and then the camera suddenly changed its mind and went off hunting again.

Not saying this to knock your purchase, but when there are so many people talking about the AF system on reviews, and in other places, then you there really has to be an issue somewhere. You know what they say about no smoke without fire.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (May 6, 2013)

I would be interested to see what settings your pro friend was using. Did he have the manual to hand?

I have to confess I've tried it with an STM lens, not via the EF-M adaptor, and I really found it to work pretty well.

I'll be using mine exlusively with the 22mm STM with AF, and via the EF-M adaptor in MF mode.

The horror stories just didn't tally with my experience so far.
Much the same way as the horror stories about 7D image noise and AF problems don't tally.
I am a RTFM kind of guy. I don;t work that well straight out of bed and so I don't expect complex electronic devices to work straight out the box the way I want.

I am a bit of an odd-bodd in that I don't entirely trust AF for anything, and that I was using an SR-T303 along side my digital gear until around 5 years ago, and that my main work camera doesn;t even have an AF mode, but the M seemed on a par with what I would expect, given segment, price, likely aspirations of user - once I had tinkered. It's not going to replace a 7D, 5D3 or 1DX for speed, but then it isn't meant to.
And not to knock your professional friend with his 400mm f2.8, but I don't think it's the kind of lens Canon designed the M for.


----------



## expatinasia (May 6, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Did he have the manual to hand?



I can't remember whether he had the manual, I just remember the hunting (which was why he kept changing the settings to try and get it to stay locked). I also asked him about it recently, but can't remember what he said either (must be getting old, that's an awful lot I can't remember! Worrying really!  ).



paul13walnut5 said:


> And not to knock your professional friend with his 400mm f2.8, but I don't think it's the kind of lens Canon designed the M for.



I agree, and I do not think I was the only one that told him it looked stupid. 

But what one person experiences does not mean that you will have the same concerns, so I wish you well with your M.


----------



## Hobby Shooter (May 6, 2013)

expatinasia said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > Did he have the manual to hand?
> ...



As Paul says, it's unlikely the EOS M wasn't really designed for the 400mm although it can be fitted to it with the adaptor. There has to be a reason the 1Dx has the extra power compared to even the 5D3. What I understand, it doesn't only help increase the fps it also helps focusing faster. So, the EOS M isn't likely to have that extra power to drive its motor very quickly. I have used a (borrowed) M now a couple of days with the 22mm and that touch screen focus and obviously it isn't fast, but not as bad as I expected. It's all about having a balanced system and have the right expectations.


----------



## StepBack (May 6, 2013)

The mirrorless offers from other manufacturers opens up the field for some photographers. While I have never seen a Leica at an NFL game or a MLB game I imagine there are a lot of retail shops in LaJolla that sell their products. When all is said and done the mirrorless don't offer much compared to a dslr for still shots. It's more a gimmick at this point. But I have seen the best results with the EM-5 and I attribute that to the photographer. If u go Canon u want to be able to buy lightweight lenses. Of course u can use your already owned but lightweight black is the idea for being unobtrusive. The RX1 is something only Sony could dream up and find someone to buy. U can get a D800 for the price. The 4/3's offer the largest number of legacy lenses from assorted sources, but when u start adding it up you're back up to a FF if u go picking among the possibilities. However, for hand held lightweight travel w/o the use for a big tele I think they hit the spot. Right now the 5D3 is by far the best out of the box camera offered which almost anyone can use to get good results.


----------



## expatinasia (May 6, 2013)

Hobby Shooter said:


> As Paul says, it's unlikely the EOS M wasn't really designed for the 400mm although it can be fitted to it with the adaptor. There has to be a reason the 1Dx has the extra power compared to even the 5D3. What I understand, it doesn't only help increase the fps it also helps focusing faster. So, the EOS M isn't likely to have that extra power to drive its motor very quickly. I have used a (borrowed) M now a couple of days with the 22mm and that touch screen focus and obviously it isn't fast, but not as bad as I expected. It's all about having a balanced system and have the right expectations.



True. I must admit I am interested by these small cameras, and often find myself at a Sony area of the shopping mall messing around with the RX 1 and RX 100. It will be interesting to see what the new M is like, but for now, if I were purchasing such an item I would get the RX 100.


----------



## Hobby Shooter (May 6, 2013)

expatinasia said:


> Hobby Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > As Paul says, it's unlikely the EOS M wasn't really designed for the 400mm although it can be fitted to it with the adaptor. There has to be a reason the 1Dx has the extra power compared to even the 5D3. What I understand, it doesn't only help increase the fps it also helps focusing faster. So, the EOS M isn't likely to have that extra power to drive its motor very quickly. I have used a (borrowed) M now a couple of days with the 22mm and that touch screen focus and obviously it isn't fast, but not as bad as I expected. It's all about having a balanced system and have the right expectations.
> ...


I can see why, my brother in law got the RX100 a few months ago and I got to play with it a little when they visited us down here, it definitely outperforms my S100. But for now I'm happy with the S100 as a pocket camera, there are other more pressing areas to spend money on.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (May 6, 2013)

For me a csc only has the csc main selling point with a pancake lens.

99% of the time my M will have the 22mm fitted and will fit in my pocket in a way that a DSLR wouldn't.

It'll be miles better IQ than the SX230 that lives in my glovebox.

And if I'm going to bastardize the CSC concept by putting anything other than a pancake on it, then it might as well be a lens that I already own, and I can't do that with a panasonic, fuji or sony.

For me, and I'm feeling increasingly isolated, the M makes quite a lot of sense used in the way it was designed to be used, which was never as an SLR beater, in the same way that none of the other CSCs are SLR beaters.


----------



## Jay H (May 6, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> For me a csc only has the csc main selling point with a pancake lens.
> 
> 99% of the time my M will have the 22mm fitted and will fit in my pocket in a way that a DSLR wouldn't.
> 
> ...



I agree, too many cameras trying to equal the capabilities of a DSLR while not not maximizing the advantages of a small body with a small sensor.

Case in point: Nikon 1 series. Teensy bodies. An expanding collection of small, quality lenses. 4K output (for 1 sec), slow motion video. Etc. A lot to like in a very small package.


----------



## Marsu42 (May 6, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> For me, and I'm feeling increasingly isolated, the M makes quite a lot of sense used in the way it was designed to be used, which was never as an SLR beater, in the same way that none of the other CSCs are SLR beaters.



It does make a lot of sense, and this concept and other mirrorless (i.e. smaller, faster fps) cameras will no doubt be the future in the upper p&s or lower rebel segment in the near future.

It's just that the general suspicion seems to be that Canon didn't put such a slow af into it because they thought it'd be sufficient, but simply they couldn't do any better at that time - maybe this will be proven by a eos-m mk2 with a digic6 and faster af.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (May 6, 2013)

Thats what I'm saying Marsu. With the right settings I don't think the AF is really all that bad. I wouldn't recommend it to my mum, because she would want it just to work out the box, and I take the point that every review, every forum and everybody who has read a forum (and even those who haven't touched an M) says..

Out the box with the flexi zone left to auto, it's slow and it hunts.

With a dabble in the menus, point select, AF+MF enabled and continual focus switched off, it is about 65x better.

Now I know that 99% of the target users probably aren't going to get beyond A mode. But for folk who used EOS before, who know what the AF settings mean, you can get better results out of the AF.


----------



## pj1974 (May 7, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Thats what I'm saying Marsu. With the right settings I don't think the AF is really all that bad. I wouldn't recommend it to my mum, because she would want it just to work out the box, and I take the point that every review, every forum and everybody who has read a forum (and even those who haven't touched an M) says..
> 
> Out the box with the flexi zone left to auto, it's slow and it hunts.
> 
> ...



Thanks Paul for your number of posts about the EOS M. I must admit I didn't go into the menus of the EOS M (but I did for the 100D and 700D DSLRs, which I was quite quickly familiar with).

I had picked up the EOS M as a 'end of my visit to the store' thing - and to be fair to the EOS M, I didn't go through and 'limit all the variables' for AF (like I also do for my DSLRs). I would have 

Maybe I will go back to the store and use the menus another time. Some staff in that store know me from some visits / former purchases, and they are all usually very accommodating in letting customers use the camera at length in store. 

At the end of the day I think I have been spoiled by the 7D's AF (I agree with you, Paul, that too many ppl have overstated the 7D's low ISO noise and "AF issues" - none of which have been show stoppers for me). But I might have another look at the EOS M - but think that a DSLR is a better 'fit' for my girlfriend (also with my range of Canon EF and EF=S lenses).

Regards

Paul


----------



## wickidwombat (May 7, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Thats what I'm saying Marsu. With the right settings I don't think the AF is really all that bad. I wouldn't recommend it to my mum, because she would want it just to work out the box, and I take the point that every review, every forum and everybody who has read a forum (and even those who haven't touched an M) says..
> 
> Out the box with the flexi zone left to auto, it's slow and it hunts.
> 
> ...



something I have found taking pics of my 5 month old baby girl while i'm holding her.
with the eos-m and 22mm lens is super handy because its light and easy to hold in 1 hand
the 22mm minimum focus distance is only 150mm so i can hold her on my lap and take a quick snap and still get a decent angle without waking her up. the AF speed doesnt matter here anyway

overall as an auxillary camera i really like the EOS-M but I couldnt live with it as my only camera


----------



## CanoSony (May 7, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> For me a csc only has the csc main selling point with a pancake lens.
> 
> 99% of the time my M will have the 22mm fitted and will fit in my pocket in a way that a DSLR wouldn't.
> 
> ...




Cant mount huh?
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4749919445_f173f0928a.jpg

I'm sorry your EOS M is on the 4th page of this list, but there ARE mirrorless cameras out there that beat most dslrs

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings/List-view


----------



## paul13walnut5 (May 7, 2013)

CanoSony said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > For me a csc only has the csc main selling point with a pancake lens.
> ...


Mount with AF? Mount with aperture control? Sorry when I said 'mount' I meant mount and work, othereise, where's the gaffer tape?

I'm just sorry you read through 4 pages of dxo to make your point.

When hou buy your next car, ask the garage to remove the gear box before you take it out. Buy the car based purely on the torque charts. Doesn't work, does it?

Funny how all the canon-biased reviewers who slate the af also praise the iq of the m.


----------



## Hobby Shooter (May 7, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> CanoSony said:
> 
> 
> > paul13walnut5 said:
> ...


I had this thing all wrong when you guys started talking about mounting. Wrong forum again, it happens.


----------



## ecka (May 7, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> CanoSony said:
> 
> 
> > paul13walnut5 said:
> ...



*"Mount with AF? Mount with aperture control?"* - Yes. It's not cheap and the AF may be worse than EOS-M, but you can use your Canon lenses on NEX cameras.

http://youtu.be/tVOhac0FQkw


----------



## paul13walnut5 (May 7, 2013)

It's the price of an M!

If you had an NEX already... well can see the point up to a point.

If you didn't, you'd just buy an M, wouldn't you?

Thanks for the metabones link. 

I had forgotton all about it, despite posting a link on this forum when it was announced. Silly me, I must have written it off in my mind.


----------



## ecka (May 7, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> It's the price of an M!
> 
> If you had an NEX already... well can see the point up to a point.
> 
> ...



No problem . You may be right about the price, for most of us it seems like an overpriced toy. However, EOS-M adapter has no "fullframatron" mode . I'd probably just buy a 6D or the M, or both.


----------



## CanoSony (May 7, 2013)

you dont have to get the metabones for AF + IS 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/new-Canon-EOS-EF-EF-S-Lens-Sony-NEX-E-Mount-Adapter-Support-Auto-Focusing-/390518163285#vi-content


----------

