# 1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 10, 2010)

```
<p><strong>Wowzers

<span style="font-weight: normal;">A good source and provider of information has finally chimed in on the 1Ds Mark IV.</span></strong></p>
<p>Everything the source has been told says there will be no 1Ds Mark IV until late 2011 or early 2012. No matter what Nikon does.</p>
<p>What we will see first is a new 5D series camera in the 28mp range, but not until 2011.</p>
<p>The word “radical” was used to describe the changes we’ll see in the next 1Ds.</p>
<p>I am giving this CR2 for the moment, I’m starting to believe it.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r </strong></p>
```


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## x-vision (Sep 10, 2010)

Yup. Finally some meaningful info. 
I guess all those 'sources' that 'predicted' a 1Ds4 at Photokina can safely be written off ;D ;D

So, which cameras will Canon refresh next and in what order. 

The 5D classic was updated in its third year and the XXD series has been on an year and a half refresh cycle. 
Following the same schedule, the 7D should see a refresh next spring and the 5DII next autumn. 

Let the new rumors begin . 

Canon has been very tight lipped this past year, though.


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## Anastas (Sep 10, 2010)

This is very bad...
I hoped 1Ds to be released now before Photokina.
If not then the 5D mk3 to be released in early 2011, not in June-September.

Very bad for Canon to not have fast FF body for sports and with good video!


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## Canon 14-24 (Sep 10, 2010)

Anastas said:


> This is very bad...
> Very bad for Canon to not have fast FF body for sports and with good video!



Just assuming that the majority of sport users use a crop of some kind 1.6/1.3 for their sports and the 7d or 1dm4 fit that bill.

I would also assume the 7d wouldn't be on the same cycle as the xxD but the 5d as from their recent release of the 60d it seems the 7d is more geared towards the prosumer market with the 5d series so maybe 2.5-3 years?

I got a gut feeling they may be trying to move into medium format with the 1ds series, but I'm not sure if that makes quite much sense economically and with the limited number of lenses there would be to use.

In regards of the possible upcoming press release, it'd be funny to see a stripped down T2i or T2 version like the XS with a 24-70 IS or 14-24 lens attached to it. However since the recent lens press releases have mainly been all EF with the very slight exception of the fisheye, maybe the other lens release will be some ef-s 30/35 prime or that supposed 60mm 2.8 IS II macro lens?


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## Anastas (Sep 10, 2010)

I need a FF sport body for extreme sports photography. Usually shooting in the range of 14-24mm. 15mm fish-eye and 24/1.4 are perfect. Also for video, not only for photos.

With 5d mk2 I'm missing half of the movements and I don't want to buy Nikon!


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## MadButcher (Sep 10, 2010)

Very strange when the 5D mk3 would be released sooner than the 1Ds mk4.

I also want the a 'afforable' FF that can keep tracking my active son (running).
I would have bought the 1D mk4 if it was FF.

Nikon-guys must be laughing.


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## del1rium (Sep 10, 2010)

I still hope for the announcement before Photokina ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 10, 2010)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>What we will see first is a new 5D series camera in the 28mp range, but not until 2011.</p>



This is music to my ears (except that I'd like to see it sooner, of course). I want to move to FF, but I need a better AF than found in the original 5D, which Canon chose not to update for the 5DII. I'd have been tempted by a 1DsIV but reluctant to fork out that much $. So, a 5DIII with an improved AF (Canon, please please please don't keep using the same 5 year old AF!!) would be perfect. If it comes out before a 1DsIV and Canon keeps the antiquated AF system, of does something equally dumb like eliminating AF Microadjustment, then it's more waiting for the 1DsIV.


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## Mr.Magic (Sep 10, 2010)

Guys, 1Ds IV is not coming at Photokina, probably 2011
Other rumours say a second DSLR is coming before Photokina -> this is the cheap FF that's coming!


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## Jan (Sep 10, 2010)

Mr.Magic said:


> Guys, 1Ds IV is not coming at Photokina, probably 2011
> Other rumours say a second DSLR is coming before Photokina -> this is the cheap FF that's coming!


In Germany one would say: your word in God's ear. 

As I don't believe that this is happening, I still think that maybe ther will be the 2000D...


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## hsmeets (Sep 10, 2010)

MadButcher said:


> Very strange when the 5D mk3 would be released sooner than the 1Ds mk4.
> 
> Nikon-guys must be laughing.



Maybe instead of 1Ds/5D paired technology we will see more joint 5D/7D developments....5Dm3 borrowing stuff from the current 7D and future 7Dm2 borrowing again from 5Dm3.....etc etc.

Nope, we are not laughing, we need canon to keep the pressure on nikon ;D and the other way around ofcourse.


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## Bob Howland (Sep 10, 2010)

Anastas said:


> I need a FF sport body for extreme sports photography. Usually shooting in the range of 14-24mm. 15mm fish-eye and 24/1.4 are perfect. Also for video, not only for photos.
> 
> With 5d mk2 I'm missing half of the movements and I don't want to buy Nikon!



You wouldn't be shooting skateboarding tricks, would you? Anyway, I need a FF low light specialist like a D700 or, better yet, a D3S and I have too much Canon stuff to switch. I've always wondered why studio cameras need to be built like proverbial tanks so a 28MP 5DMkIII makes sense. I wouldn't buy one, but it makes sense.

As for a "radical" 1DsMkIV, one fantasy might be the merged 1D with an EVF and a 4FPS, 50MP sensor that can be binned down to 12.5MP and 16FPS. 12.5MP also makes sense for 4K video but the data rate to the memory card goes through the roof.


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## macfly (Sep 10, 2010)

Such a pain, that means I'm stuck working with the hideous H2 system for another year. I can't stand that camera, it is such a poorly thought out and made POS. I was really hoping for the 1Ds IV to give me the quality required to satisfy all my clients in a camera I actually enjoy using.


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## Stuart (Sep 10, 2010)

If it usual for canon to not do so much for so long? How small is their R&D team for SLR's.


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## Stone (Sep 10, 2010)

This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation. The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now. Releasing a high performance, FF body would provide entry into a market where Canon isn't currently competing. The 1DIV comes at too high of a price point and competes with more expensive Nikon bodies so there is room here for another body to gain some market share.

I think we just might see the mythical 3D finally released to fill this niche with the 5DIII taking on the high MP "studio" duties until the next 1Ds is ready. I believe Canon wants the 1DsIV to crash the MF party where people are willing to pay a lot more for the ultimate in IQ. The 3D has been talked about for years, but it makes sense to release it now as it would complete Canon's advanced amateur, semi-pro lineup very nicely. 7D high performance crop, 5D ultimate FF IQ for studio work, 3D fast & FF 16-18MP for the "all of the above" shooters like myself. Canon would literally have something for everyone who wants to step up from the Rebels and upgrade their aging XXD cameras, many of these people myself included are considering the dark side because it seems that Canon wants us to buy 2 cameras to shoot everything we like. I still don't know what purpose the 60D serves, it seems to exist only to fill the price gap between the T2i and 7D. 

The 1 series remains the ultimate workhorse with the best weather sealing, fastest FPS, best AF and great IQ, but also a niche camera.

Of course this is all wild speculation on my part, but it would allow Canon to compete on every front. People disagree with me but I'll bet Canon execs get a little heartburn every time they hear about the D700 and it's replacement, its a market they could have been dominating for years....


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## Anastas (Sep 10, 2010)

If Canon really release the mythical 3D I think it will be perfect! But i'm not a believer... hope to be wrong


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## Peerke (Sep 10, 2010)

Stone said:


> This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation. The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now. Releasing a high performance, FF body would provide entry into a market where Canon isn't currently competing. The 1DIV comes at too high of a price point and competes with more expensive Nikon bodies so there is room here for another body to gain some market share.
> 
> I think we just might see the mythical 3D finally released to fill this niche with the 5DIII taking on the high MP "studio" duties until the next 1Ds is ready. I believe Canon wants the 1DsIV to crash the MF party where people are willing to pay a lot more for the ultimate in IQ. The 3D has been talked about for years, but it makes sense to release it now as it would complete Canon's advanced amateur, semi-pro lineup very nicely. 7D high performance crop, 5D ultimate FF IQ for studio work, 3D fast & FF 16-18MP for the "all of the above" shooters like myself. Canon would literally have something for everyone who wants to step up from the Rebels and upgrade their aging XXD cameras, many of these people myself included are considering the dark side because it seems that Canon wants us to buy 2 cameras to shoot everything we like. I still don't know what purpose the 60D serves, it seems to exist only to fill the price gap between the T2i and 7D.
> 
> ...



I agree 100%and would buy that 3D for sure.


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 10, 2010)

Some mutually contradicting rumors lately. If this is CR2 then the previous (unrated) rumor of another DSLR release for Photokina should now be rated CR0. The only possible body replacements then would be a 2000D (rebadged 450D or 500D) or a 5D2n, i.e., 5D2 + all 7D features (AF esp.)/buttons/customizability + elimination of low ISO banding. That would have been such an easy, no-brainer minor model change for a very popular FF body. LOL @ a 24-70 IS release together with a 2000D. : Better luck next time.


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## awinphoto (Sep 10, 2010)

x-vision said:


> Yup. Finally some meaningful info.
> I guess all those 'sources' that 'predicted' a 1Ds4 at Photokina can safely be written off ;D ;D
> 
> So, which cameras will Canon refresh next and in what order.
> ...



The 7D is considered on a same class as the 5D series according to Canon, So i can see that being on a similar 3 year cycle as the 5D and 1D cameras... Plus... until the other cameras (5D and 1D) get the same features (levels, metering, flash trigger, et al) I dont see a need for a new 7D as of now. I dont see the immediate need for the 1Ds until they come out with the Digic 5 in some other camera to troubleshoot and perfect the technology... I do hope that the new features are worth it.


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## J-Man (Sep 10, 2010)

Hmmm interesting, 
1DsIV in a year+, Fovian type sensor shooting 2 or 4K video.
Then the 5DIII 6+ months away with similar tech as 7D, and more refined video(binning vs. Line skiping)

That leaves the door open for a 3D with 18ish Mp and 7-9 fps
Come on canon, Bring It!!!


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## nzmargolies (Sep 10, 2010)

Peerke said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation. The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now. Releasing a high performance, FF body would provide entry into a market where Canon isn't currently competing. The 1DIV comes at too high of a price point and competes with more expensive Nikon bodies so there is room here for another body to gain some market share.
> ...



same


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## davidpeter (Sep 10, 2010)

Who cares "radical" upgrades? Canon simply forget to make good cameras. 5D is crippled by the AF, 7D sucks due to the too high MP, and i have to borrow my mate's D700, if I want good pictures in low light. Perhaps I should buy that...


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## scalesusa (Sep 10, 2010)

This year, Canon has been doing minor updates. I would not be suprised if they decided to wait and do something like a mirrorless camera that obsoleted the APS-H series, or maybe two FF cameras.

There are no big break-thrus yet in sensors, but lots of tricks that can be done to make improvements. Maybe they are stepping back to re-think the situation. i'm sure that sony's new fixed mirror camera has come sooner than they had wanted. They hold a lot of patents in that area. Maybe sony has a FF pellicle camera coming soon, and Canon is setting up to match it.


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## awinphoto (Sep 10, 2010)

davidpeter said:


> Who cares "radical" upgrades? Canon simply forget to make good cameras. 5D is crippled by the AF, 7D sucks due to the too high MP, and i have to borrow my mate's D700, if I want good pictures in low light. Perhaps I should buy that...



I could go on and on about the quality of the 5D and 7D camera (since I use them) however you would probably call me a fanboy... However heard the phrase "different strokes for different folks"... Canon and Nikon builds cameras for different markets and different photographers and photographers needs and wants. In the end of the day, all it is is a glorified computer that captures the image... Choose and camera that suits your needs and quit trolling. Also dont dog cameras just because it wasn't marketed specifically for you.


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## Rukes (Sep 10, 2010)

People are forggeting how old the 1Ds MkIII is, it's still the last in the Canon lineup to add video.

There are all the new features on the 1D MkIV to add to the 1Ds (bigger sensor, better dynamic range, more AF points, etc..) to make it "fresh", plus any new ones they didn't want to included in the slightly rushed-out 1D MkIV

On top of that, every single 1Ds has been released every 3 years every November, so it's at it's due date now.

Also, don't forget a CR2 is just someone who was right in the past. They could have been right in the past based on luck. Or even the source that the CR2 source is getting this info from got some bad info to pass on.

Bottom line: It's still a RUMOR, hence the site. It would suck if it were true, but i'm still holding my breath for a CR3 or Photokina.


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## Stone (Sep 10, 2010)

Rukes said:


> People are forggeting how old the 1Ds MkIII is, it's still the last in the Canon lineup to add video.
> 
> There are all the new features on the 1D MkIV to add to the 1Ds (bigger sensor, better dynamic range, more AF points, etc..) to make it "fresh", plus any new ones they didn't want to included in the slightly rushed-out 1D MkIV
> 
> ...



I agree it's just a CR2 rumor right now, but TBH, other than a few high dollar studio photogs and spec whores like myself





there aren't many people who are checking for this camera. $6-$8K is just too much scratch for most of us even those with disposable income. However far more people, myself included have cash in hand and are looking to buy in the $2-$3.5K range right now or within the next few months. Since the bodies in this range have all been out for a couple of years, we're all on the edge of our seats waiting for the new models to drop. There's a lot more anticipation and potential sales waiting for Canon & Nikon in this range and I think they both know it. Again, this is pure speculation by me and not in any way based on fact, just my knowledge of marketing and supply/demand which I deal with daily.

I know Canon needs a flagship for bragging rights if nothing else, but the 1Ds really has only one competitor in the D3x and they are pretty much still equally matched in performance and price, it really boils down to which brand you prefer. The 1Ds was released in 11/07 and the D3x about a year later, if Nikon sticks to their 4 year release cycle, the D4x won't be released for another 2 years, Canon probably feels like they have plenty of time to put out the 1Ds and are concentrating on more profitable SLRs.


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## J (Sep 10, 2010)

As far as "radical" developments go, I'm hoping it's programmability. That would be quite the departure from existing cameras and would require that Canon document hardware and firmware in a way they haven't done before.

Think CHDK for SLRs. Hacks built in and encouraged!


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## Rukes (Sep 11, 2010)

The only reason for me with sticking with the 1Ds series is superior low-light AF with full frame, it's the only one in the Canon linup with it. 

If Canon made a 3D with comparable AF, low megapixel sensor and high ISO, I would definately drop the 1Ds. Same if they improved the AF with the 5D series. 

Otherwise i'm stuck with the 1Ds series if I want to have perfectly composed images in the camera with low-light lenses.


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm finding Rukes and Anastas to have the most interesting comments here.

Personally I've been expecting the 5D Mark II sooner than the 1Ds Mark IV; the lower-end a camera is the more regular the updates have to be, else they cede that segment to more up-to-date cameras from other manufacturers. Yes, the 1Ds is three years old at this point, but it may well be that Canon is taking an extra year (over the usual three - year schedule for the 1Ds series, i.e. Mark II in 2004, Mark III in 2007, though the original 1Ds was replaced in two years after a 2002 Photokina unveiling) to reshuffle the lineup and features again.

I don't know if the need for most people will be as strong after / if the 5D Mark III (or something more expensive...) is released - full-frame and with an upgraded (finally) autofocus system, both of which are obvious selling points for the 5D line, unless they rejigger that line too. I haven't a clue how Canon will justify something in the 1Ds price range but it may involve video or certain features - perhaps the body will incorporate some features previously seen only in expansion modules like the WFT, for instance (we've already seen how even the 60D has greater integration re controlling flashes than previous models).


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## VJA (Sep 11, 2010)

*1Ds III N?*

Could the rumors that there is a "new 1Ds" coming at Photokina be true, even though the 1Ds IV might not come until 2011 or 2012? If the 1Ds IV does not come until 2012, it would make sense, possibly to release another camera in the meantime. It seems likely that the 5D upgrade would be the one. But could there be a 1Ds III N at Photokina? Maybe not though. After all, what could they add to the 1Ds III? Video? Why?


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## Justin (Sep 11, 2010)

Bring on the 5D3 for $2999 - 24 mpx full frame sensor, 5 fps, vastly improved AF system, additional video functions. 

The 5D2 can co-exist as the cheaper older version (lower msrp to $2199),

Who says there can't be co-existing higher models. T2i and T1i co-exist.


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## AJ (Sep 11, 2010)

*don't think so*

I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.


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## Stone (Sep 11, 2010)

*Re: don't think so*



AJ said:


> I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.



Would you rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k a pop or 50,000 cameras at $2.5K? Its all about total revenue. Very, very few people amateur or professional can justify the pricetag of a 1Ds....


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## AJ (Sep 11, 2010)

*Re: don't think so*



Stone said:


> AJ said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.
> ...



I'd rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k, have it pay for R&D, then put the same technology in a lower-end cam and mass produce, sell 50,000 units at $2.5k.

Given your logic, why would canon have charged $8k for the previous 1Ds models when they could have sold more of 'em at a lower price. But they did....


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## macfly (Sep 11, 2010)

AJ, I'm with you on the logic of selling the high ticket item first, then after a year release the mass market version.

Add to logic the image of the big cat taken with the Mk IV tag at the Canon expo, and my local camera store here in LA (Samys) are saying 'get your credit cards ready boys', makes it all sound like the Mk IV is closer, and almost certainly closer than a 5D mklll.


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## Canon 14-24 (Sep 11, 2010)

To those that are wishing/wanting a 3D like camera, would they still pony the extra dough for it?
With the 7D and 1D series the difference in price mainly to a superior AF system is quite dramatic. I doubt Canon would release a FF superior AF digital camera for under $3grand starting. I would assume a price of $3499 going up seems about right (though Canon would then seem to 1up me as usual and price it something like $3799/3999+), but then again that's like a 7D + 5D2 right there.


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## Stone (Sep 11, 2010)

*Re: don't think so*



AJ said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > AJ said:
> ...



Given how long it would take you to sell those 5,000 $8K bodies to a much smaller market of potential buyers, you'd be lucky to be in business long enough to to develop your $2.5K value leader. ;D 

I'd sell the $2.5K bodies at a much faster rate to a much, much larger audience and realize a far more rapid ROI allowing me the operating revenue I need to stay in business and expand my production capabilities. A portion of that revenue could then go into R&D and be used to produce my "flagship". Economies of scale FTW....


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## Tonyflo (Sep 11, 2010)

Hi Guys, 

I'm not a still photographer (though I wish I had some formal training in photography!) -- my focus is video and film. From what I see, the 5D Mark II is obviously selling very well and getting a lot of free advertising from leaders in the DSLR film movement. However, there are also many flaws as some have noted: 

- Poor HDMI ports/location of ports/HDMI connectors break easily
- Drops to 480p when using external monitor
- Main LCD not viewable when monitoring 
- No HD-SDI monitoring support (need converters, which are a pain) 
- Rolling shutter when camera is moved quickly
- Occasional aliasing, moire, and line skipping
- No 1080p or even 720p at 60fps (therefore hard to use for slowmo) 
- Poor audio and controls 
- Good in low light, but not as good as Nikon 
- Only 1080p -- not 3k or 4k; No "raw" video mode 

Still, despite all these problems, there are TONS of budding filmmakers buying or renting 5Ds -- and Canon is getting lots of free exposure and marketing. 

However, most of these people are not totally loyal to Canon -- just to the best camera for their needs. So if a competitor comes out with something better (i.e. Panasonic, Nikon or even the ever-delayed Red Scarlet) ... they could have customers jump ship. 

Also, there are many many people on the fence -- unsure of what to buy, or wondering if/when Canon will come out with something better. 

So with the explosion in using these cameras for film -- if they released an update for the 5D soon that solved all these issues ... it would be the "ultimate" indie film camera. And an important step forward for pros like those who shot House on the 5D or Lucasfilms, who are beginning to use it more. 

Thus, the strategy behind releasing a 5D3 soon would be to get so many new people on board who would also buy lots of lenses and other stuff, specifically for Canon. This would make it harder for someone to switch to Nikon or Panasonic later. 

In a sense, I'm in this boat. I'm about ready to buy a 5D, despite it's issues, because it's still the best camera in its price class for my needs. And I'll also probably buy about $4,000-5000 in Zeiss Prime lenses in Canon ef mount. 

Oh well ... no matter what, it doesn't look like they will be releasing the new 5D in time for me to wait -- so I will most likely get a current 5D2 and then sell it at a steep discount or use it as a "b" camera when the new one comes out. 

Or .... (fingers crossed) the 1Ds will actually solve all these problems, come out in the next 30 days, and retail for the low, low price of just $4997!!!! ;-) 

But given everything I see on this board, that seems about as likely as the Red Scarlet coming out soon! 

Anthony


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## Anastas (Sep 11, 2010)

Justin said:


> Bring on the 5D3 for $2999 - 24 mpx full frame sensor, 5 fps, vastly improved AF system, additional video functions.
> 
> The 5D2 can co-exist as the cheaper older version (lower msrp to $2199),
> 
> Who says there can't be co-existing higher models. T2i and T1i co-exist.



Count me for one


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## kai (Sep 11, 2010)

Glad to finally heard news of 5D3!
Please canon, give us a fast AF, adjustable upper iso in auto mode, raw video output enable. That's all I want to upgrade from 5D2 to 5D3!
As for the upgrade from 21MP to 28MP, that's not my preference. I even start to worry its low light capability and overall picture quality. I'd prefer 21MP or even lower it to 18MP.


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## Athadam (Sep 11, 2010)

I think many of you are getting ahead of yourselves and are seriously getting wayyyy too excited over this. 

Many of you have certain wants and needs but you have to realize this... There will always be complainers. There are a lot of sports shooters out there who will be furious if Canon decides to drop ISO improvements and up the IQ and dynamic range on a new camera, but equally there will be tons of landscapers who would be angry at a MP drop. 

Canon will have to accommodate both parties - as they have always done by taking the middle path. 

You guys are making it seem like most of the previous Canons are a piece of crap... Seriously, we are 10 years into the digital age and if you can't make a good image with what you've got :x you should really re-evaluate your skills. 

I mean the 7D, 5D mark ii, and 1d Mark 4 are all great cameras. Certain aspects of them are inferior compared to Nikons - maybe but so will every Canon camera in the future. And the same can be said about Nikons.

I know - I know this is a rumours site, but just know that what your needs are.... doesn't reflect the needs and wants of the mass consumers


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## BJNY (Sep 11, 2010)

Tonyflo said:


> ....flaws as some have noted:
> 
> - Poor HDMI ports/location of ports/HDMI connectors break easily
> - Drops to 480p when using external monitor
> ...



I wouldn't mind next video-centric camera body having less megapixels than 5d2's current 21mpx
as long as that cures some/all of these issues.

Then, if Canon is going to take longer for the 1Ds4,
I hope they'll incorporate Foveon-like uninterpolated color sensor / no AA filter.


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## Stone (Sep 11, 2010)

Canon 14-24 said:


> To those that are wishing/wanting a 3D like camera, would they still pony the extra dough for it?
> With the 7D and 1D series the difference in price mainly to a superior AF system is quite dramatic. I doubt Canon would release a FF superior AF digital camera for under $3grand starting. I would assume a price of $3499 going up seems about right (though Canon would then seem to 1up me as usual and price it something like $3799/3999+), but then again that's like a 7D + 5D2 right there.



If this camera comes along I'm ready to buy. Depending on specs, my price range is $2500-$3500 body-only. It doesn't need to cost more than that as the competition has already proven. I'm just a hobbyist with no desire to profit from photography so I'm not rushed, but I've been ready to upgrade to FF for quite a while now.


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## Richard (Sep 11, 2010)

Stone said:


> This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation. The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now.



Yet there are a group of elite users that demand such a camera. These users also tend to have the coin to drop on 10K+ of lenses, multiple bodies, and CPS memberships. Also, people that use such a camera are influencers, a good word from them or some excellent work made by can build sales for Canon on the low end.


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## Athadam (Sep 11, 2010)

One of the main reasons as to why Nikon or Canon make these 8 grand flagship cameras, is not so that people will really buy it - but so that they remain the class leaders in what they do.

They will always have a highly expensive camera, that shows off the best of what they can possibily do - to represent the furthest capabilities of Nikon or Canon. 

For example.. Even though ALL other lower nikons camers suck - you can't say all Nikon suck because the D3x is still leading the IQ and MP count.


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## Stone (Sep 11, 2010)

Richard said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation. The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now.
> ...



I agree with this although elite is a relative term, these professionals might be among the best at what they do and they have a certain amount of influence because of it. It doesn't change the fact that the 1Ds is a low volume seller and has a significantly lower impact to Canon's bottom line. The lowly Rebels, XXD and "lower end" XD cameras are what keep the doors open and the lights on. So my original argument remains, the 1Ds has essentially 1 competitor and it won't be upgraded for probably another 2 years, Canon has time to release the 1Ds later as its specs are current with the competition. I understand flagship cameras and why they exist but my point is, the impact to Canon will be minimal if they don't release a 1DsIV in the near term and they know it. They can, however shake up the market by introducing a high performance FF camera that's within the reach of the non-elite professional and advanced hobbyist, a market with a greater potential for immediate profitability and growth.

Many of us can drop $15K on a pro body and L glass no credit cards necessary, and I'll probably never take a photo for money. I've probably blown more on greens fees and alcohol over the past couple of years, but I simply don't spend enough time taking photos to justify that kind of investment. Perhaps one day that will change and I might actually give a flip about the opinions of the "elite"...


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 11, 2010)

Athadam said:


> One of the main reasons as to why Nikon or Canon make these 8 grand flagship cameras, is not so that people will really buy it - but so that they remain the class leaders in what they do.


"Class leader" and price / performance leader are two different things. The video DSLR market has exploded, as everybody's noticed, and at the moment the 5D Mark II arguably gives them more prestige (and money) than the 1D and 1Ds models do. But even that doesn't matter - if you just look at the spacing between model releases in each price category you'll see that there are two things missing right now - first, a new DSLR to compete with the D3000 / D3100 (rumors here insist one thing and then another - could just be that Canon will continue to flog older, video-less models for a while), and second, a new 5D Mark II update.

The 5D Mark II has been updated roughly every two years and it's time for another (though the wild card is that they've been reshuffling the lineup of late).

The one hole I see in Canon's high-end DSLR lineup is on wide-angle sports coverage, useful for situations like skateboarding (already mentioned here) and snowboarding. The 1.3x crop factor doesn't cut it. But if you're shooting field sports from the sidelines, in most situations the crop factor won't hurt too much - doesn't squeeze resolution as much as 1.6x, and a 300mm lens becomes nearly a 400mm, a 400 becomes a 500+, and so on. Undoubtedly the crop factor makes juggling an inventory of lenses more complicated but in many cases it saves money to shoot with slightly wider glass.


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## crjedi (Sep 12, 2010)

This rumor makes sense. I am thinking Canon wants to shift the focus on making the 1Ds MkIV the premiere dSLR then the next 5D. The 5DMkII changed the world but it didn't justify many to jump on to 1DMkIV with its price. Maybe they'll make the 1DsMkIV the RAW or 2K/4K cam that may go against RED while the 5DMkIII will still have .h264 with much better AF and complete feature set for video and improved sensor. I hope this is what happens. I just wish for the 24-70IS for Photokina.


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## clicstudio (Sep 12, 2010)

*Re: Pissed off and disappointed*

I can't believe all these long waits for new stuff from Canon. Every time a 1 series body is introduced it either has a "big" problem, or just isn't as good as people expected for such a long wait. As an exlusive 1Dx user for 8 years I am disappointed and angry that Canon doesn't see that they are lagging behind Nikon and they don't give a crap. I understand the money makers are the consumer and prosumer cameras but there are 2 REAL choices in the Pro world: Canon or Nikon. The rest are just gravy. The D3 is, unfortunately, a better camera than the current 1D4. 
The 5D2 is a nice camera but lacking the feel and focusing of the 1D's and I refuse to own one. Actually, I did own one for 2 days and I hated it. It went back to B&H right away.
I want a bigger MP camera with less noise and faster focusing, even in dim light, where the 1D4 really fails, and I want it soon!
What's this bullcrap about 2012? The world will end on 12.21.12 and I want lots of megapixels to capture it!!!


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## baronfizzy (Sep 12, 2010)

The whole post that this thread is based on is ridiculous. If Canon wasn't bringing out the 1Ds Mark IV this year, why would testers have had the cameras for several months now? How long do testers normally have cameras for?


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## Stone (Sep 12, 2010)

baronfizzy said:


> The whole post that this thread is based on is ridiculous. If Canon wasn't bringing out the 1Ds Mark IV this year, why would testers have had the cameras for several months now? How long do testers normally have cameras for?



A camera, especially one as complex as the 1Ds can easily be in testing for well over a year. If significant bugs are found, parts of the system might need to be tweaked or even completely re-engineered and testing begins all over again for that system. Working 1DsIV prototypes have probably been in existence since 2008....


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## baronfizzy (Sep 12, 2010)

Hmmmm, maybe not so ridiculous then, with that in mind. I would like to believe the rumour, especially since it's a new 5D Mark iii that I want, not the 1Ds Mark IV. I doubt I'm alone there either, but sadly the 5D being updated first is probably wishful thinking.


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## RichT (Sep 12, 2010)

*Re: don't think so*



Stone said:


> AJ said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.
> ...



If it had a video mode that would knock your socks off you can bet they'd sell a LOT more than 5,000 of them. In fact it would make sense to debut such a feature first in a 1Ds, letting the early adopters pay out the wazoo for them (these are people who think getting a 2/3" sensor video camera for $5000 is a steal), and then once after that initial wave has waned THEN come out with the 5D3 with the same features for much less. Is it milking the (not so) poor customers for everything they've got? Absolutely. Does it make good business sense? Absolutely


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## baronfizzy (Sep 12, 2010)

I'm not really concerned about video mode, or if the autofocus improves on the new version, all I want from the new 5D is to match the image quality of the 1D Mark IV, especially with the way it handles noise, but in a 
full frame version.


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## zxof (Sep 12, 2010)

so my guess 5D mark iii will be the first one to get Digic 5 and 1Ds mark IV will get dual Digic 5?


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## nzmargolies (Sep 12, 2010)

this is the key a lot of people are missing. I know i started my system with canon because i saw that they led the professional market with their flagship cameras. I wanted to a) join a company that would allow me to (in my dreams) give me a camera to work up to and b) know im using the same brand as the pros.

if they lose the flagship market, selling their cheaper models wont be as easy.



Richard said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation. The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now.
> ...


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## Stone (Sep 12, 2010)

nzmargolies said:


> this is the key a lot of people are missing. I know i started my system with canon because i saw that they led the professional market with their flagship cameras. I wanted to a) join a company that would allow me to (in my dreams) give me a camera to work up to and b) know im using the same brand as the pros.
> 
> if they lose the flagship market, selling their cheaper models wont be as easy.
> 
> ...



No one said Canon should abandon their flagships, what I think they're doing is looking at the high-end market and seeing that they don't NEED to upgrade their flagship at this time since the 1DsIII is still very competitive with the competition. Also it makes more sense to wait until we're closer to a D4x release so Nikon doesn't have a year to study Canon's new flagship which is what happened with the D3x.


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## unfocused (Sep 12, 2010)

I actually feel sorry for Canon (and Nikon). It seems like they have a real dilemma. 

Flagship cameras are essential to their business model. But, these cameras take a considerable amount of time and resources to develop. Technology is changing so rapidly that they run the risk that by the time the research, development and testing cycle is complete, the camera ends up lagging behind on technology. But, if you rush it to market and there's a problem, your reputation is shot. 

On top of all that, when your customers are spending $6,000 to $8,000 they expect a camera that is going to be state of the art for more than six months or a year. It's one thing to spend $1,000 on a camera and then have it replaced with a new model in a year. It's quite another to invest $6,000 in a camera that feels obsolete after a year. 

I seriously doubt that these high-end cameras represent much if any profit to either company. They need them to maintain their reputations, but they can't be big profit makers. And, to make matters worse, they have to devote resources to these models, while constantly fending off challenges to their other lines from companies like Pentax, which desperately want a piece of the high-end "prosumer" market.


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## Justin (Sep 13, 2010)

I don't feel sorry at all. This is what they do and do well. 

Releasing a 5D successor makes good sense if they know they can sell them like crackcakes to film and still shooters alike. Even at $3500 they will sell thousands of them in the first few months. Hell they could use the same or rejiggered 21mpx sensor, address the myriad video features missing on the current 5D2, improve the AF, weather sealing, and give it a swivel screen and please the masses (mostly b/c there will always be swivel screen haters). Then with more R&D time Canon can leapfrog all competition and be competitive in medium format mpx range (DR will need to match of course) of 50mpx. 1Ds4 can become the flagship again for landscape and studio work in 2011. A new zoom 14-24 2.8 and a new 35 1.2 would complement perfectly. 



unfocused said:


> I actually feel sorry for Canon (and Nikon). It seems like they have a real dilemma.
> 
> Flagship cameras are essential to their business model. But, these cameras take a considerable amount of time and resources to develop. Technology is changing so rapidly that they run the risk that by the time the research, development and testing cycle is complete, the camera ends up lagging behind on technology. But, if you rush it to market and there's a problem, your reputation is shot.
> 
> ...


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## Rattle (Sep 13, 2010)

MadButcher said:


> Very strange when the 5D mk3 would be released sooner than the 1Ds mk4.
> 
> I also want the a 'afforable' FF that can keep tracking my active son (running).
> I would have bought the 1D mk4 if it was FF.
> ...


I don't know many sports, real stuff not staged, photographers who long for a FF body.

It doesn't matter which forum you read there is always going to be some person that is not happy with the current product offering. That doesn't make them a bad company. The key to market development is to appease the masses knowing full well that there are going to be some people left in the dust.


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## peejay (Sep 13, 2010)

Oh this is ridiculously frustrating.

I need to invest in a camera system and with this annoying release date I'm going to go Medium Format.

Useless Canon, Useless.


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## Rukes (Sep 13, 2010)

baronfizzy said:


> The whole post that this thread is based on is ridiculous. If Canon wasn't bringing out the 1Ds Mark IV this year, why would testers have had the cameras for several months now? How long do testers normally have cameras for?



Seriously, I think this whole thread has been going a bit crazy. I think everyone should just take a step back and see if it's announced for Photokina. If not, then we all know it's delayed, and we can all go crazy with rumors


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## Rattle (Sep 14, 2010)

peejay said:


> Oh this is ridiculously frustrating.
> 
> I need to invest in a camera system and with this annoying release date I'm going to go Medium Format.
> 
> Useless Canon, Useless.


Really, you expect us to believe this. All of a sudden someone using a 10MP point and shoot is ticked because Canon has delayed the next "s" body. Moving to a used II or III or even a new 1DMKiv would be more than challenging coming from that camera. If Canon isn't meeting your needs then move along and buy something that will. Out of sheer curiosity what are you shooting that would require you to move from a point and shoot to a medium format and have you actually looked at what that is going to set you back. Me thinks I am talking to a troll. If not then explain yourself.


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 14, 2010)

Rattle said:


> I don't know many sports, real stuff not staged, photographers who long for a FF body.


This is a very important point - full frame is another front for marketing, something like a new megapixel battle. I'm not sure Canon makes as much headway on chip development for full frame versus APS-C sized, but the $900-$1000 difference over even the 7D that the 5D Mark II commands currently is an incentive for Canon.

More an incentive to release the 5D Mark III first: The features of the 5D Mark II are becoming dated by some standards (control layout possibly, autofocus module obviously, video features arguably - higher framerates would be very useful to many shooters and higher sensitivity is always a good thing).

On the 1Ds front, the current camera in the segment does what it's supposed to do - it has a well-regarded autofocus system and good basic characteristics for sports and press photographers.

So despite what many folks say the 5D has much more mass market appeal to many - a good balance of features and cost that make it appealing to people working in all sorts of areas.


Rattle said:


> Out of sheer curiosity what are you shooting that would require you to move from a point and shoot to a medium format and have you actually looked at what that is going to set you back. Me thinks I am talking to a troll. If not then explain yourself.


Not worth the trouble. I think the medium format companies (the few and fewer left) have better use of their marketing money than posting unpersuasive gripes on CR, so I doubt there's anything of substance to consider.


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## macfly (Sep 14, 2010)

Something that everyone here is missing is that Canon knows how many 1Ds's it will sell, as all of us who have ben buying them will continue to buy them. Obviously I won't buy another mklll but am on the list for the IV at my local camera store when it arrives. I suspect most of us pros are in the same boat, as are the rental houses, design studios and other commercial users who will be upgrading using the nice tax incentives we get for equipment upgrades. 

It would seem to me that the mklll sales have already been heavily cannibalized by the 5D, so upgrading the 5D first will totally undermine any future potential 1Ds Mklll sales. Production lines have to produce, and as a factory planner you have to know what your production lines need to keep them moving. Would you want to be spending all that time and money producing the mklll that will sit on shelves, and be sold off as remaindered items at huge discounts because your own product at almost a quarter of the price has kicked it off its perch? Makes no sense to me, and for that reason alone I'd expect (and hope) to see a 1Ds mkIV first (soon).


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## peejay (Sep 18, 2010)

Rattle said:


> peejay said:
> 
> 
> > Oh this is ridiculously frustrating.
> ...



Say what? A 10MP point and shoot? What are you on about, freak?


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## VJA (Sep 19, 2010)

peejay said:


> Say what? A 10MP point and shoot? What are you on about, freak?



This is too funny...he thinks that because your post level is "Powershot A490" that you are using that camera. What he didn't notice was that his own post level is the same! And so is mine. But it doesn't mean I use an A490!


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## macfly (Sep 19, 2010)

Me too, and I don't even know what a 490 is! I did have an 850 once, before my G10, is it kind of like that?


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