# Second camera option



## Phenix205 (May 27, 2017)

Hey everyone. Have been using a 5D3 for the last 5 years. Typically would use the EOS M + 11-22 as a back up especially when hiking. Would like to consider a more advanced second body so that one is mounted with a wide angle and the other with a telephoto zoom. Mostly do natural light portrait, travel landscape and kids events (stage dancing, etc). Any suggestions? 5DsR, 5d4 or wait for the upcoming 6D2? Appreciate your thoughts.


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## rfdesigner (May 27, 2017)

Phenix205

regardless, if you're looking at FF for wide angle travel landscape, I would think about the lens first and compare it to the 11-22 you have now. unless you're already lugging a FF wide with you.

your 16-35 IS is 3x the weight of the 11-22


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## bholliman (May 27, 2017)

Phenix205 said:


> Hey everyone. Have been using a 5D3 for the last 5 years. Typically would use the EOS M + 11-22 as a back up especially when hiking. Would like to consider a more advanced second body so that one is mounted with a wide angle and the other with a telephoto zoom. Mostly do natural light portrait, travel landscape and kids events (stage dancing, etc). Any suggestions? 5DsR, 5d4 or wait for the upcoming 6D2? Appreciate your thoughts.



Looks like you are wanting a 2nd FF DSLR. The 5D4 is a terrific all-arounder, but if you are not in a hurry, wait for the 6D2 to be announced to see what it offers compared with the other FF bodies currently available. Its a terrific time to be a photographer, so many excellent equipment options.

What capabilities are you looking for that would enhance your photography (more FPS, greater resolution, better shadow recovery, etc.)


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## Zeidora (May 27, 2017)

bholliman said:


> What capabilities are you looking for that would enhance your photography (more FPS, greater resolution, better shadow recovery, etc.)



+1

For an allrounder, I may go for 5D4. If MP count is important, then 5DsR (that's what I got for that reason). For FPS, 1DxII [not on your list, but anyway]. If you want to retain familiarity with controls, I would stay away from 6Dx, and stay in 5D family. If price is an important factor, than consider 6Dx.


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## peterzuehlke (May 27, 2017)

maybe the wrong forum here, but in my defense I have been shooting Canon (for small format) since the mid 1980s, (new F1) but I shoot performance (music and occasionally dance) in smaller venues and find performers are much more comfortable with small quiet cameras pointed at them. So i just upgraded my NEX to a Sony a6500 because of its completely silent shutter mode. (My 6D is pretty quiet, one of the main reasons I got it instead of the 5D3, when I went (amateur) and away from one series.

side note: above comments don't apply to theatre, actors light up when you point big noisy cameras at them.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 27, 2017)

Phenix205 said:


> Hey everyone. Have been using a 5D3 for the last 5 years. Typically would use the EOS M + 11-22 as a back up especially when hiking. Would like to consider a more advanced second body so that one is mounted with a wide angle and the other with a telephoto zoom. Mostly do natural light portrait, travel landscape and kids events (stage dancing, etc).
> 
> Any suggestions? *5DsR, 5d4 or wait for the upcoming 6D2?* Appreciate your thoughts.



Of the cameras you suggest, I'[d get a 5D Mark IV. However, having a small camera and lens for occasions where size matters is definitely useful. Ask yourself again if you would want two larger cameras. If so, any of your three choices are fine. I like to share lenses batteries and memory cards, so that may be a consideration. I don't believe a 6D uses CF cards nor has dual cards. I'm interested in DPAF, for photos with static subjects, having extremely accurate AF without AFMA is appealing, and video shorts with autofocus are as well. The 6D and 5D IV excell in low light.


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## Rockskipper (May 27, 2017)

I have an M5 for my toss-n-pocket carry around and it does great. I also have a 7DM2 and use it for wildlife/action and some macro/landscape. I'm probably going to get a 5DM4 (after I see what Canon does with the 6D2) for more serious landscape/night skies.

I keep a telly (Canon 100-400) on the 7D and have an 18-150 on the M5. If I get a 5DM4, I'll keep a wide-angle on it most of the time. I do have a wide angle for the 7DM2, but I rarely use it.

In any case, have you considered the 7DM2? It will get you closer and has incredible focusing and weather sealing, plus many other great features and would work great for dance/action, plus you get in closer because it's the 1.6 crop. It's also around $1300 for the body refurbished from Canon. I bought mine refurbished and it's like new. You can also get an 80D refurb for $800.


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## Act444 (May 28, 2017)

Phenix205 said:


> Hey everyone. Have been using a 5D3 for the last 5 years. Typically would use the EOS M + 11-22 as a back up especially when hiking. Would like to consider a more advanced second body so that one is mounted with a wide angle and the other with a telephoto zoom. Mostly do natural light portrait, travel landscape and kids events (stage dancing, etc). Any suggestions? 5DsR, 5d4 or wait for the upcoming 6D2? Appreciate your thoughts.



Based on the requirements you laid out in your post, sounds like 5D4 will be your best bet. More advanced than the 5D3 without being a bulky 1D, and the 6D would be a step back ergomonics-wise. Unless you crave significantly more resolution and detail, which the 5DSR would provide, but at the cost of high ISO performance...and as an owner of one, I'll say that would not be my camera of choice if I needed/wanted to shoot a stage performance (I don't really do that type of photography, but I have been in similar low light/spotlight situations). *ETA: This is not to say it would do poorly in such a setting, but with the 5D4 also on hand, the R would not provide me with the optimum result given my choices of equipment.*

5D4 is the all-arounder, like the 5D3 - jack of all trades, master of none. 5DSR is more of a specialist tool...which excels at what it's designed for.


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## SalAlexander (Jun 1, 2017)

I would also get a 5D4, and make the 5D3 your second body.
At least, this is what I'll be doing soon.
The 6D2 could be an interesting option, but as it will likely outperform the 5D3, you'll probably start considering that as your main body, and at that point I'd rather have a 5 series than a 6 series.


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## Maximilian (Jun 1, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Phenix205
> 
> regardless, if you're looking at FF for wide angle travel landscape, I would think about the lens first and compare it to the 11-22 you have now. unless you're already lugging a FF wide with you.
> 
> your 16-35 IS is 3x the weight of the 11-22


+1 to this

Phenix205, your initial task (replacing an EOS M by a pro FF body) got me a little bit puzzled.
Seems like you're going for the task to reset your standard setup or you need some GAS arguments to get something newer than your 5D3.

So my advice is this:

wait until EOS 6D2 and SL2/110D are announced
rethink, redefine your task, your needs
if you want to go for a second FF body, choose after you know what you'll get from a 6D2
if you want to stay small and just increase the performance of your APS-C, maybe even use the EF-M 11-22 on, consider a EOS M5 or M6 or a SL2/110D
but still think about the advice of rfdesigner

Good luck with your decision.


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## drmikeinpdx (Jun 1, 2017)

I would need to know more about the OP's needs and style before offering advice. First, I would ask which of the listed genres needs the second body? In what circumstances would it allow you to make better images?

When you are mobile, how important is size and weight? Does the weight of your gear ever keep you from making it to the next really cool photo spot?

Do you really want to lug two full frame cameras with lenses when doing travel photography or hiking? Are you also carrying a tripod? (That will affect not only the weight you must carry, but will tell us something about what level of resolution and sharpness you are producing.)

And as someone else already mentioned: which new technical features do you feel will enhance your photography?

So many questions!


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## Ozarker (Jun 2, 2017)

5D Mark IV no matter what the 6D II offers.


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## hbr (Jun 2, 2017)

I believe that the 5D Mark IV will do everything that you need and would probably be your main camera with the Mark III being the backup. There should be a minimal learning curve with what you already have. Looks like you have some good glass. But, you did mention hiking and telephoto in the same sentence. Hope you have a strong back and legs, 
The disadvantages of the 6D II would be that the camera will be very different from the Mark III that you already own, thus a pretty steep learning curve. No joystick, etc. You won't save that much weight. But it will be cheaper than the 5D Mark IV, so I would say that if you can afford it, go with the Mark IV.


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## RGF (Jun 2, 2017)

bholliman said:


> Phenix205 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everyone. Have been using a 5D3 for the last 5 years. Typically would use the EOS M + 11-22 as a back up especially when hiking. Would like to consider a more advanced second body so that one is mounted with a wide angle and the other with a telephoto zoom. Mostly do natural light portrait, travel landscape and kids events (stage dancing, etc). Any suggestions? 5DsR, 5d4 or wait for the upcoming 6D2? Appreciate your thoughts.
> ...


I have the 5D M4 and it is a great camera. Not sure if you would be happy with the 6D II for action (kids dancing) shoots.


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## Phenix205 (Jun 11, 2017)

Thank you all for your inputs. I have decided to go with a 5DsR as my second camera. The 5D3 will probably still be used as my main camera for casual shots for schools and regular kids activities as those photos are mostly just printed at 4x6 or 5x7 size or simply viewed on computer (or phone) when shared with family and friends. The file size of 5D3 is more manageable and the camera is more forgiving to shaking. If I get a 5DIV, I know the 5D3 will probably seldom get used again. 

For travel/landscape or posed family portrait or large group portrait (e.g., kids' team portrait), I think the high resolution of 5DsR will provide tremendous benefit. One, these photos are more likely printed at larger size. Two, the additional leverage in cropping will be very helpful for long day City travel or long distance hiking. I could just mount a wide angle zoom on the 5DsR to crop out unwanted stuff or get extra effective reach when needed. 

Considering how my photos will be used/printed, I think the 5DsR has what 5D4 can never offer - the amazing details and more freedom of cropping provided by the 50MP sensor. For other general uses, the 5D3 is still a solid performer, especially for web publishing. Yes, the 5D4 has more dynamic range, but those are software mitigable issues. I have always tried to get the exposure right and never had a need to increase exposure more than 1.5 stops to pull the details out in shadows. 

Thanks again.


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## hne (Jun 11, 2017)

Phenix205 said:


> Thank you all for your inputs. I have decided to go with a 5DsR as my second camera. The 5D3 will probably still be used as my main camera for casual shots for schools and regular kids activities as those photos are mostly just printed at 4x6 or 5x7 size or simply viewed on computer (or phone) when shared with family and friends. The file size of 5D3 is more manageable and the camera is more forgiving to shaking. If I get a 5DIV, I know the 5D3 will probably seldom get used again.
> 
> For travel/landscape or posed family portrait or large group portrait (e.g., kids' team portrait), I think the high resolution of 5DsR will provide tremendous benefit. One, these photos are more likely printed at larger size. Two, the additional leverage in cropping will be very helpful for long day City travel or long distance hiking. I could just mount a wide angle zoom on the 5DsR to crop out unwanted stuff or get extra effective reach when needed.
> 
> ...



I get quite curious as to what size you're planning to print.

I've got good experiences from people pressing their noses up against prints all the way down to 160 DPI, with forgiving subject matter (snow, mountains, clouds) and paper (with some structure).
The 20Mpx 5DmkII files look amazing in B+ size and 5DmkIV... well I've not come around to doing any large prints yet, but I've got some mathematical reasons to believing they'd be perfect at any combination of size and distance where I could see the whole print moving nothing but my eyes.


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## Phenix205 (Jun 11, 2017)

My wife loves large family portrait printed out and hung on the wall. For landscape, probably 20x30 or larger. I never had an issue printing large from the 5D3 files, AS LONG AS I didn't have to crop the original much. Once you start cropping, the file size gets smaller quickly and details are lost. Of course, getting the composition right in the first place is always most preferred but it didn't always happen. The mega sensor in the 5DsR will provide more flexibility. 

If I didn't have a 5D3, I would have had pre-ordered a 5D4 when it was announced. For what I shoot and how I use the photos, I couldn't justify paying another 3 grands for the additional benefits the 5D4 brings over the 5D3. Even when I upgraded the 5D3 in the future (a 5D5?), I'd probably keep the 5DsR.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 11, 2017)

Phenix205 said:


> Thank you all for your inputs. I have decided to go with a 5DsR as my second camera. The 5D3 will probably still be used as my main camera for casual shots for schools and regular kids activities as those photos are mostly just printed at 4x6 or 5x7 size or simply viewed on computer (or phone) when shared with family and friends. The file size of 5D3 is more manageable and the camera is more forgiving to shaking. If I get a 5DIV, I know the 5D3 will probably seldom get used again.
> 
> For travel/landscape or posed family portrait or large group portrait (e.g., kids' team portrait), I think the high resolution of 5DsR will provide tremendous benefit. One, these photos are more likely printed at larger size. Two, the additional leverage in cropping will be very helpful for long day City travel or long distance hiking. I could just mount a wide angle zoom on the 5DsR to crop out unwanted stuff or get extra effective reach when needed.
> 
> ...



Good luck, but I wonder about lugging a heavy tripod with a 5DSR for travel. You do not get the benefit of all those pixels unless the camera is extremely stable, like bolted in concrete. A heavy stable tripod with underweight and bean bagged legs would be a starting point for you to to get images that can be greatly cropped. 

Sure, it won't give worse results than a 5D MK III, but hand holding it and expecting to be able to crop images greatly is a bit of wishful thinking. Camera testers had to develop new and more solid fixtures while testing the camera in order to get the sharp images it is capable of. In any event, its a great camera, just make sure your expectations are aligned with reality.


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## dak723 (Jun 12, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Phenix205 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you all for your inputs. I have decided to go with a 5DsR as my second camera. The 5D3 will probably still be used as my main camera for casual shots for schools and regular kids activities as those photos are mostly just printed at 4x6 or 5x7 size or simply viewed on computer (or phone) when shared with family and friends. The file size of 5D3 is more manageable and the camera is more forgiving to shaking. If I get a 5DIV, I know the 5D3 will probably seldom get used again.
> ...



If possible, you should try and rent the camera before you decide. I agree that there is a good chance that you won't get the benefit of those extra MPs if you are hand-holding. Frankly, if I were looking for a second camera just for the convenience of not changing lenses, I would get a used 5D III or something cheaper.


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## Phenix205 (Jun 12, 2017)

It's all about techniques. I think this handholding issue has been discussed quite a bit and mounting this baby on tripod all the time is just an exaggeration. Some people cannot even take a sharp photo with a smart phone camera. 

I'd be interested in hearing from someone who has actually used the camera.


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## Hector1970 (Jun 12, 2017)

Having both I'd take a 5D4 any day over the 5DSR. As Mt Spokane says the 5DSR needs a stable platform and good light to get the best out of if. The 5DIV is a better all rounder. Not amazingly better than a 5DIII just a slight improvement in each area. Currently I have a7DII (which is fast FPS but not much else to recommend it, 5DSR and 5DIV. What I use a lot is an Olympus camera , it has great lens but a shocking menu system. If is however a great backup and travel camera. Two full frames and lens can be very heavy. Just something to consider.


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## Luds34 (Jun 13, 2017)

Phenix205 said:


> It's all about techniques. I think this handholding issue has been discussed quite a bit and mounting this baby on tripod all the time is just an exaggeration. Some people cannot even take a sharp photo with a smart phone camera.
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing from someone who has actually used the camera.



I tend to agree. I mean APS-C was hitting these high pixel densities, very small pixel pitch starting with the 18 MP sensor. Plenty of crop sensors are rocking 24 and 28 MP and I never hear anyone saying you can't get sharp images without a tripod.


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## Phenix205 (Jun 13, 2017)

The key here is to know your gear and make most of its strength and mitigate the weakness. This applies to anything we do. 5DsR is more of a niche camera and never was designed as a general purpose workhorse. 

I used to carry my 5D3 + 24-70 on my neck or shoulder with the M+11-22 on my wrist, plus a smart phone in my pocket. My wife took a picture of me, busy switching among three "systems" for different purposes. WTF, I told myself to take it easy, just have one camera and one wide angle zoom and be done with it. 5DsR is the just the one as long as you know how to use it.


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## Al Chemist (Jun 13, 2017)

I have owned the 5DSR for 6 months and have only used my 5D3 a couple of times since then. I also own a 6D which also gets little use now. I rarely use a tripod and have zero problems getting incredibly sharp images with the 5DSR. The lenses I almost always use on the 5DSR are the 100-400 L2 and Zeiss 21 f2. With the Zeiss, an f-stop of f8 has everything in focus from 6 feet to infinity and it is almost a point and shoot for landscapes. The cropping advantage is very useful to me even for landscapes and is great for critter shots with the telephoto zoom. I also handhold the Zeiss 100 MP using this camera. The myth that you cannot get sharp photos with the 5DSR handheld is nonsense. You just need to keep your shutter speed up and use good holding technique. I agree that for casual family pictures the 5D3 is much better in terms of file size but when you are "compositionly challenged" as I am, cropping is a blessing.


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## Phenix205 (Jun 14, 2017)

Thank you Al Chemist for sharing your experience. The new 6d2 seems to have a 26 MP sensor which expects to have great low light performance. It should also have the dual pixel AF and other good features. I guess my next step after getting the 5DsR is to replace the 5D3 with a 6D2. Look forward to seeing some reviews after it is released.


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## bholliman (Jun 14, 2017)

Phenix205 said:


> It's all about techniques. I think this handholding issue has been discussed quite a bit and mounting this baby on tripod all the time is *just an exaggeration*. Some people cannot even take a sharp photo with a smart phone camera.





Al Chemist said:


> I have owned the 5DSR for 6 months and have only used my 5D3 a couple of times since then. I also own a 6D which also gets little use now. I rarely use a tripod and have zero problems getting incredibly sharp images with the 5DSR. ... handhold the Zeiss 100 MP using this camera. *The myth that you cannot get sharp photos with the 5DSR handheld is nonsense*. You just need to keep your shutter speed up and use good holding technique. I agree that for casual family pictures the 5D3 is much better in terms of file size but when you are "compositionly challenged" as I am, cropping is a blessing.



+1 to both of these comments. The 5DsR performs very well as a multi-use camera and you can definitely take advantage of the additional megapixels shooting hand held!

I sold my 5D Mk3 and gave my son my 6D after I purchased a 5DsR since both were rarely used. The only small advantage of the Mk3 over the sR is 1 FPS, everything else is better with the newer body. 6D's take better images at ISO 3200 and over, but the 5DsR is better at everything else. I use my 5DsR for everything, 90% of the time hand held, and its performs admirably. I don't have any problems getting pixel sharp images hand held using somewhat faster shutter speeds.

That said, the 5D Mk4 is certainly a better all-around camera. But for me the 5DsR checks all the boxes for what I need in a DSLR.


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## Act444 (Jun 14, 2017)

It IS possible to get sharp shots with the 5DSR handheld, but I concede that you do need a steady hand (and a steady subject as well, particularly at close distances). Fast shutter speeds help, and image stabilization is even better. 

Unfortunately you can't really do "run-and-gun" shooting, say, on a city tour or fast-paced event and expect to get the most out of the shots at full-res. I've tried.


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## dak723 (Jun 15, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Phenix205 said:
> 
> 
> > It's all about techniques. I think this handholding issue has been discussed quite a bit and mounting this baby on tripod all the time is just an exaggeration. Some people cannot even take a sharp photo with a smart phone camera.
> ...



No one is saying you can't get sharp images without a tripod. What people are saying is that you might not get the *benefit* of all those extra MPs. Your image won't be less sharp with a 50 MP camera, but it may have no more resolution or detail than a 36 MP camera, for example, without a tripod.


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## seabraham (Jul 1, 2017)

Help... and sorry in advance for changing the subject just a bit but it still relates to "second" camera option...

I have owned a 70D for 3 years. Use it for a wide variety of mostly family-related subjects. Soccer for the kids ("official" photographer for the team), school pictures (yeah, tagged for those events too ), travel. Lenses I use routinely include EFS 10-22, 24-70LII, and 70-300L. I finally took the plunge and got the 5Dm4 and couldn't be happier.

And then...

Videoing graduation ceremony at school, the 70D died. Apparently the auto-suicide feature of the 70D if it is used "too much" for video. The motherboard died (mine without any warning such as an error code) and Canon is quoting $420 to fix. The frame count was only about 15k.

And now the issue. I love the EFS 10-22 lens (don't care one bit about the kit lenses that have zero shots through them). I also love the additional (perceived) reach with the crop camera and the 70-300 lens.

So... Do I fix a $700 (refurbished) camera for $400? Get rid of the 10-22? Replace with a different crop camera (for even more)?


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## hbr (Jul 1, 2017)

seabraham said:


> Help... and sorry in advance for changing the subject just a bit but it still relates to "second" camera option...
> 
> I have owned a 70D for 3 years. Use it for a wide variety of mostly family-related subjects. Soccer for the kids ("official" photographer for the team), school pictures (yeah, tagged for those events too ), travel. Lenses I use routinely include EFS 10-22, 24-70LII, and 70-300L. I finally took the plunge and got the 5Dm4 and couldn't be happier.
> 
> ...



I don't know your financial situation but have you considered moving up to the 80D. There may not have been an incentive to upgrade in the past but now you have that opportunity. I see the 80D refurbished on sale at Canon Direct for $799 + tax.

Brian


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## seabraham (Jul 1, 2017)

I did consider refurbished 80D or even 7DmII. It's just hard to walk away from the (presently) burned out but fixable 70D. I had only one camera for a while, always griping as I switched lenses. Having the two spoiled me. Once I start even thinking about spending more, suddenly the temptation is to creep up to earlier full frame models But then I lose the wide angle lens. Aargh... :-\


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## seabraham (Jul 1, 2017)

One option then is to fix the 70D and then sell it. I'd at least cover the repair with a few extra net dollars going for the 80D (refurb)


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## Valvebounce (Jul 2, 2017)

Hi seabraham. 
I get the 10-22mm lens thing, a really good bit of glass, but you only need a 16-xx mm lens to replicate it on full frame. As for repairing the 70D to sell, you might get almost as much for it unrepaired (as you would selling it repaired less the cost of repair) on that popular auction site! 

Cheers, Graham. 



seabraham said:


> One option then is to fix the 70D and then sell it. I'd at least cover the repair with a few extra net dollars going for the 80D (refurb)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 2, 2017)

I'd sell it on ebay if you don't want to fix it yourself. Parts cameras typically run $275-$400. Replacing the main board tends to be very easy, you can get them from 175-200 on ebay.

Sell the body, keep the batteries, charger, box, and accessories and buy a refurb which has a 1 year warranty, or a 80D refurb for $800.


You come out even or even ahead by selling it, since a good used 70D brings some $500. I even see some selling the old main boards for $50.


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## Khalai (Jul 2, 2017)

Valvebounce said:


> I get the 10-22mm lens thing, a really good bit of glass, but you only need a 16-xx mm lens to replicate it on full frame.



16-35/4L IS is more than adequate FF replacement for EF-S 10-22


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## Valvebounce (Jul 2, 2017)

Hi Khalai. 
I see from your gear list that you have a 16-35 f/4L IS. As I don't have any FF lenses that wide I felt it proper to make a suggestion rather than a direct recommendation for one particular lens. At some point I hope to go that route as I now have a 1DsIII, the biggest drawback I see is the larger size of the glass to go with FF to get the same focal length, almost twice the weight, but not too much extra volume in the kit bag is needed. 

Hi seabraham. Have a look at this link if you need help with rationalising the lens. 

Cheers, Graham. 



Khalai said:


> Valvebounce said:
> 
> 
> > I get the 10-22mm lens thing, a really good bit of glass, but you only need a 16-xx mm lens to replicate it on full frame.
> ...


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## Larsskv (Jul 2, 2017)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Khalai.
> I see from your gear list that you have a 16-35 f/4L IS. As I don't have any FF lenses that wide I felt it proper to make a suggestion rather than a direct recommendation for one particular lens. At some point I hope to go that route as I now have a 1DsIII, the biggest drawback I see is the larger size of the glass to go with FF to get the same focal length, almost twice the weight, but not too much extra volume in the kit bag is needed.
> 
> Hi seabraham. Have a look at this link if you need help with rationalising the lens. https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EF-S-10-22mm-F35-45-USM-on-Canon-EOS-70D-versus-Canon-EF-16-35mm-F4L-IS-USM-on-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-EF16-35mm-F2.8L-II-USM-on-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV__475_895_1367_1106_220_1106
> ...



Or even better comparizon here (dxo-numbers dont make much sense to me): http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=271&Camera=963&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=949&Sample=0&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0


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## Khalai (Jul 2, 2017)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Khalai.
> I see from your gear list that you have a 16-35 f/4L IS. As I don't have any FF lenses that wide I felt it proper to make a suggestion rather than a direct recommendation for one particular lens. At some point I hope to go that route as I now have a 1DsIII, the biggest drawback I see is the larger size of the glass to go with FF to get the same focal length, almost twice the weight, but not too much extra volume in the kit bag is needed.
> 
> Hi seabraham. Have a look at this link if you need help with rationalising the lens. https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EF-S-10-22mm-F35-45-USM-on-Canon-EOS-70D-versus-Canon-EF-16-35mm-F4L-IS-USM-on-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-EF16-35mm-F2.8L-II-USM-on-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV__475_895_1367_1106_220_1106
> ...



Unfortunately nobody can cheat physics. If you want quality UWA zoom glass with 43 milimetres of imaging circle, you just can't make it small as e.g. EF-S 24/2.8 Pancake. Flange distance, imaging circle, build quaiity of L line - there is no free lunch...


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## Valvebounce (Jul 2, 2017)

Hi Larsskv. 
I did look there, but they don't have the 5DIV as a comparison option whereas the one I used does, I do not know how close the 1DsIII is to the 5DIV that seabraham is using. This was for him not me! 

Hi Khalai. 
Yep I know all about the no free lunch thing, it is cost that is keeping me in check! 

Cheers, Graham. 



Larsskv said:


> Or even better comparizon here (dxo-numbers dont make much sense to me): http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=271&Camera=963&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=949&Sample=0&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0


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## seabraham (Jul 2, 2017)

*Re: Second camera option (dead 70D)*

It sounds like the consensus recommendation is let go of the crop world (and the 10-22) and just go full frame. I looked at the f4. The price wasn't bad, especially refurbished (had very good luck from Canon with my 24-70/2.8). 

Thank you!


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