# Industry News: Canon Still #2 in Full Frame Mirrorless Market



## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2022)

> Sony had quite a head start, but even with Canon’s R5, R6 and R3 releases over the past couple of years, it hasn’t caught up to lead the full-frame mirrorless market. Sony issued a release this morning indicating that NPD, a research firm with solid methodologies based on proprietary retailer relationships, shows the E-mount vendor staying on top.
> Sony was likely helped significantly with more product releases in the mid-tier product range, such as the new A7IV.
> This may change soon, as rumors have it that Canon will finally refresh the low-end of its full-frame range – the part of the market that makes up the big numbers. Currently, Canon’s low-end offerings are the RP and R cameras which sport rather old technology for the market.
> 
> *SAN DIEGO...*


*

Continue reading...*


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## David - Sydney (Feb 16, 2022)

They don't mention if the figures are global or just the US. The sources mention "US" and one has "Canada"...
Source: Sony Internal Research, U.S.
Source: The NPD Group/Retail Tracking Service, U.S
The NPD Group/Retail Tracking Service, Canada
Source: The NPD Group/Weekly Retail Tracking Service, U.S

I wouldn't like to say that Sony marketing is exaggerating but perhaps they are. Globally would be a different story!


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## Blue Zurich (Feb 16, 2022)

Canon could be 17th for all I care. Still using them. Folks take rankings so personal, not sure what it has to do with their images


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## SteveC (Feb 16, 2022)

Blue Zurich said:


> Canon could be 17th for all I care. Still using them. Folks take rankings so personal, not sure what it has to do with their images



Many corporations have this mindset that if they're losing marketshare (even if sales are growing because the market is expanding) they are failing.


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## Blue Zurich (Feb 16, 2022)

SteveC said:


> Many corporations have this mindset that if they're losing marketshare (even if sales are growing because the market is expanding) they are failing.


I was tying the news to user/member opinions (based upon what I have seen here in the past with ego based reactions to marketshare rankings)


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 16, 2022)

SteveC said:


> Many corporations have this mindset that if they're losing marketshare (even if sales are growing because the market is expanding) they are failing.


Given the fact that Canon started a decade later into the FF ML market, they fare quite well. Sony is a very strong competitor with the financial power of a company that is roughly 3.5 times bigger than Canon. 

I stick with Canon, simply because Canon gear is so rugged and reliable, and that's important for wildlife shooting. I can't say anything about Sony gear, but we have an extended Nikon/Sigma gear for wildlife, aside my Canon gear, and with those we needed much more service, for cameras (Nikon, prosumer level) and lenses (Nikon and Sigma, prosumer and pro lenses). With my Canon gear I only once needed a new thumb wheel for my original 7D during the past 15 years, which was exchanged on warranty. Even the original Canon batteries lose much less power in cold environments than Nikon's, we experienced several times.


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## entoman (Feb 16, 2022)

Blue Zurich said:


> Canon could be 17th for all I care. Still using them. Folks take rankings so personal, not sure what it has to do with their images


Yes, people often take gear far too seriously and use cameras as weapons to belittle those who have made different choices. When visiting dpreview, one could be forgiven for thinking that most of the folk in the comments section are more interested in brand-warfare and mockery than in photography. I sometimes wonder how many of them actually take photographs...


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## Blue Zurich (Feb 16, 2022)

entoman said:


> Yes, people often take gear far too seriously and use cameras as weapons to belittle those who have made different choices. When visiting dpreview, one could be forgiven for thinking that most of the folk in the comments section are more interested in brand-warfare and mockery than in photography. I sometimes wonder how many of them actually take photographs...


Oh I get that, as primarily a Canon but also an alternative process film and Lensbaby shooter on the odd occasion I get belittled off and on for using 'silly toys'. Holga as well. Happens here too. Me? I can't just limit myself to a razor sharp little box of clinically perfect photography. So much fun to have out there. 
Mock away stuffed shirts!


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## diegopisante (Feb 16, 2022)

I've used professionally Canon since 2003, and for the first time I'm really considering switching to Sony, I really disagree with Canon glass prices and also we don't have third parties glasses options...I still using the, 28 1.8 bought in 2007, 16-35 2.8 LII bought in 2009, 70-200 2.8 L bought in 2011, and 24-70 2.8 LII bought in 2014, now Canon is dropping the EF and soon will not price maintenance for these glasses...and we will be f**
That's a funny history considering someone who started to shoot with the Sony Mavica with floppy disk LOL


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## mxwphoto (Feb 16, 2022)

I think having Canon keep #2 spot is actually a good thing, keeps senior management hungry and striving so we benefit as consumers. Canon was far too complacent when they were #1 where they would cripplehammer so much good gear to protect their higher priced lineups. The R3,5,6 show their true capabilities of turning out great products when they need to increase marketshare.


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## jjesp (Feb 16, 2022)

One big difference could be the RF mount. For pro photographers it is maybe fine with the big and expensive lenses. But for most, the cost of these chunky lenses is to big. The Sony E mount wins here.


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## John Wilde (Feb 17, 2022)

Sony writes "In North America", not worldwide.

Sony writes "Based on Dollars", not on unit sales.


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## David - Sydney (Feb 17, 2022)

John Wilde said:


> Sony writes "In North America", not worldwide.
> 
> Sony writes "Based on Dollars", not on unit sales.


Being a little pedantic... "Dollars" come in many flavours eg USD, CAD, HKD, FJD, AUD, NZD, etc. Cherry picking data for a particular audience is exactly and only that. 
I thought that "North American market" also would include Mexico but perhaps I am incorrect. 
Some of the data figures don't reference Canadian numbers either.
America is a big market but clearly not the only market for camera/lenses.


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## John Wilde (Feb 17, 2022)

A more positive stat, from Canon's 2021 financial documents:

Global Interchangeable-lens camera unit sales: 5.4 million units.
Canon global interchangeable-lens camera unit sales: 2.74 million units 

2.74/5.4 = 51% Canon worldwide ILC unit market share.


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## sanj (Feb 17, 2022)

Canon Camera rentals in India is practically dead in India. It is all Sony. I think people have a herd mentality. If Sony is popular, everyone wants Sony. Unfortunately...


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## SteveC (Feb 17, 2022)

justaCanonuser said:


> Given the fact that Canon started a decade later into the FF ML market, they fare quite well. Sony is a very strong competitor with the financial power of a company that is roughly 3.5 times bigger than Canon.
> 
> I stick with Canon, simply because Canon gear is so rugged and reliable, and that's important for wildlife shooting. I can't say anything about Sony gear, but we have an extended Nikon/Sigma gear for wildlife, aside my Canon gear, and with those we needed much more service, for cameras (Nikon, prosumer level) and lenses (Nikon and Sigma, prosumer and pro lenses). With my Canon gear I only once needed a new thumb wheel for my original 7D during the past 15 years, which was exchanged on warranty. Even the original Canon batteries lose much less power in cold environments than Nikon's, we experienced several times.


I absolutely agree they are doing quite well for being such recent entrants to that market.

I stick with them because there's no compelling reason to switch. I don't care if my gear isn't quite the greatest any more. It's better gear than I am a photographer, to be honest; so I don't need even more. And in the case of S*ny, I've hated every product of theirs I've bought since the 1980s, so that's a compelling reason to NOT switch.


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## jam05 (Feb 17, 2022)

diegopisante said:


> I've used professionally Canon since 2003, and for the first time I'm really considering switching to Sony, I really disagree with Canon glass prices and also we don't have third parties glasses options...I still using the, 28 1.8 bought in 2007, 16-35 2.8 LII bought in 2009, 70-200 2.8 L bought in 2011, and 24-70 2.8 LII bought in 2014, now Canon is dropping the EF and soon will not price maintenance for these glasses...and we will be f**
> That's a funny history considering someone who started to shoot with the Sony Mavica with floppy disk LOL


Your professional work is solely dependant on EF lenses? I have never needed maintenance on any of my Canon lenses. If you still use your lenses purchased in 2007 professionally you have gotten your money's worth and then some. Thats good reliability and longevity that you are not guranteed to get with any other brand. I shoot with Canon, Sony, Fuji, Pentax.....Not a one brand person. I use cameras and glass the same way I do musical instruments.


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## unfocused (Feb 17, 2022)

One thing I dislike about internet "news" sites is that they seldom do any real reporting and simply reprint the handouts given to them by companies. I'm not saying Sony is being dishonest here but really, they should release the full report from the NPD Group. And sites that claim to be covering the camera industry should really demand that these reports be released before reporting them as news.


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## David - Sydney (Feb 17, 2022)

unfocused said:


> One thing I dislike about internet "news" sites is that they seldom do any real reporting and simply reprint the handouts given to them by companies. I'm not saying Sony is being dishonest here but really, they should release the full report from the NPD Group. And sites that claim to be covering the camera industry should really demand that these reports be released before reporting them as news.


but it has fed the fanboys and they will be quoting it (incorrectly) for a long time to come  
Just looking at the number of post on the DPR article mentioning "overheating" gives some idea of the army. Thankfully the same proportion doesn't seem to correlate with actual sales.


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## Tremotino (Feb 17, 2022)

diegopisante said:


> I've used professionally Canon since 2003, and for the first time I'm really considering switching to Sony, I really disagree with Canon glass prices and also we don't have third parties glasses options...I still using the, 28 1.8 bought in 2007, 16-35 2.8 LII bought in 2009, 70-200 2.8 L bought in 2011, and 24-70 2.8 LII bought in 2014, now Canon is dropping the EF and soon will not price maintenance for these glasses...and we will be f**
> That's a funny history considering someone who started to shoot with the Sony Mavica with floppy disk LOL


Ask sony shooters! I Know a lot original alpha Minolta photographers that where really pissed of by completely letting them down with the alpha mount. A horrible customer approach.
If you hade used Minolta-Sony from 2003 on, you would be a much more frustrated. All apha mount bodies and I believe all alpha mount lenses are discontinued now.

For my understanding only very old Canon lenses have been discontinued. The last versions of all lenses are still in production, which is a great think.
If you have that old lenses I think you will not be in any rush. Thrid party lenses will come also to the rf mount as they came to the ef mount, but it seems you prefer the canon lenses instead of the third-party lenses?

Btw. Sony shooters always told me the Sony lenses are way too expensive comparing to other brands, isn't that anymore the case?


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## Pierre Lagarde (Feb 17, 2022)

Considering Nikon was #2 seller for digital cameras all during the time Sony claims they were until they stop saying, let's consider Canon is #1 seller for mirrorless full frame until Sony stops saying they're #2 ...


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## [email protected] (Feb 17, 2022)

Couple notes:
1) I used to use NPD data all the time back in my days working for major ad agencies. They're legit. The figures are for US/Canada. Will update a reference to that.
2) More importantly, I think the significance of the story isn't for chest-beating purposes, but rather to show the general direction of the market, which informs many of our long-term platform decisions. Clearly, Canon and Sony are going to be around for a while in this field. Sony set a target explicitly of being the #1 camera producer (of any and all types), and was well on the way to that. Canon's mirrorless spurt in the past couple of years may make this an impossibility. In the meantime, the other vendors have had to grab a niche or be lost. Sony is interesting in that its camera business is a hair on the tail of the dog, so if it is not making its share targets, that sort of a conglomerate is more apt to pull a Samsung and pull the chute. This story indicates that's not likely to happen anytime soon. The thing I'm quite curious about is whether low-end mirrorless offerings will wind up being the lions share of the units and revenues (probably not earnings), like they were back in the DSLR days. Seems like that low-end market is what got eaten by our iPhones. This marketshare battle will partly reveal how much that has changed.


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## unfocused (Feb 17, 2022)

[email protected] said:


> Couple notes:
> 1) I used to use NPD data all the time back in my days working for major ad agencies. They're legit. The figures are for US/Canada. Will update a reference to that.



I have no doubt that NPD is legit, but I would like to see the actual report, rather than just Sony's press release. Same if it were Canon or Nikon. I just like to see the original documents, rather than the company's filtered version. There are often nuggets of enlightening info that can be teased out of the original data.




[email protected] said:


> ...Clearly, Canon and Sony are going to be around for a while in this field...



As is Nikon. Conventional forum wisdom is always against Nikon, but I would never count them out. The Z9 seems like an incredible camera at an incredible price. If I were not a dedicated Canon user who never switches systems, I would be salivating over the Z9. I think it sends a signal that Nikon intends to do whatever it needs to to recapture its place in the market.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 17, 2022)

entoman said:


> When visiting dpreview, one could be forgiven for thinking that most of the folk in the comments section are more interested in brand-warfare and mockery than in photography.


DPR is a toxic place especially for Canon users since many years, about ten years ago it was a much better place to look for useful information and comments. Some threads are still okay, but I visit DPR only a few times a year anymore



entoman said:


> I sometimes wonder how many of them actually take photographs...


Well, it's even worse if you ask WHAT photographs some of those guys take IF they do, I sometimes really wonder what garbage in their wildlife challenges pops up as winners. I am not the arrogant guy who loves to write bad comments about others images, but I would be ashamed to show what sometimes can be seen there, getting good rates. Of course, really great images also can be seen there sometimes, but there are better places if you look for good photography itself - from photographers I can still learn how to do better.


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## vladk (Feb 17, 2022)

diegopisante said:


> I've used professionally Canon since 2003, and for the first time I'm really considering switching to Sony, I really disagree with Canon glass prices and also we don't have third parties glasses options...I still using the, 28 1.8 bought in 2007, 16-35 2.8 LII bought in 2009, 70-200 2.8 L bought in 2011, and 24-70 2.8 LII bought in 2014, now Canon is dropping the EF and soon will not price maintenance for these glasses...and we will be f**
> That's a funny history considering someone who started to shoot with the Sony Mavica with floppy disk LOL



Prices for lenses I am/was interested in show not much difference between EF and FE:
RF 600mm 4.0 = FE 600mm 4.0
RF 400mm 2.8 = FE 400mm 2.8 and is $2K below Z 400mm 2.8
RF 70-200 2.8 = FE 70-200 2.8 and is $200 above Z 70-200 2.8
RF 100-500 is $300 above FE 100-400 but offers 400-500mm range.
RF 24-70 is $100 above Z 24-70 and $200 above FE 24-70.
RF 15-35 is $200 above FE 16-35.

And don't forget that FE do not have OIS.

RF lenses might be overpriced compared to EF. but mirrorless FF lenses are expensive from all camera makers.
At the same time, most EF glass is much cheaper, and is mostly as good as RF.
Regarding third party glass - it will take time.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 17, 2022)

SteveC said:


> And in the case of S*ny, I've hated every product of theirs I've bought since the 1980s, so that's a compelling reason to NOT switch.


Well, their Walkman was okay, I'd say


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 17, 2022)

justaCanonuser said:


> Well, their Walkman was okay, I'd say


Spoken like someone who knows what both of these objects are, and the role the first one plays in the proper functioning of the second one.


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## vladk (Feb 17, 2022)

justaCanonuser said:


> Well, their Walkman was okay, I'd say


They built good and reliable camcorders. I switched between SONY and Canon multiple times since 2000, and my current 4K one is SONY. Touchscreen and menu system are terrible, but not the IQ (for a 1" sensor).


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 17, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Spoken like someone who knows what both of these objects are, and the role the first one plays in the proper functioning of the second one.
> 
> View attachment 202508


+1 I remember well for what one needed this pencil frequently - not necessarily for writing anything on a cassette's label.

Coincidently, some weeks ago popped up in my mind that one observation (more exactly, the lack of this observation) really tells that we have finally arrived the post-cassette era: no bleaching tape ribbons any more around roadside trees.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 17, 2022)

vladk said:


> They built good and reliable camcorders. I switched between SONY and Canon multiple times since 2000, and my current 4K one is SONY. Touchscreen and menu system are terrible, but not the IQ (for a 1" sensor).


To be serious: Sony gear is good, in particular if it gears up Canon and vice versa - to the favor of all users.


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## [email protected] (Feb 18, 2022)




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## allanP (Feb 18, 2022)

I have been working with Canon for 20 years and I am not surprised about Sony's number 1 - regardless of Canon's late entry into new technology.
What I didn't understand was the abandonment of the unified bayonet (at least in one direction) between FF and APSC.
This was a factor that contributed to staying with Canon for years. You can change as you wanted or needed and (almost) everything was fine. Now they are two separate systems and you don't automatically switch from EF-M to RF. You have to go through a system change, and the new one may also be completely different.
Sony took advantage, Canon gave up. In addition, the opening of the bayonet at Sony for third-party manufacturers.
No wonder Canon is dead in India. For salaries (except for millionaires), nobody buys RF optics for several thousand dollars. This is also the case in other lower income countries. There, potential customers are addicted to cheaper optics.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 18, 2022)

allanP said:


> No wonder Canon is dead in India. For salaries (except for millionaires), nobody buys RF optics for several thousand dollars. This is also the case in other lower income countries. There, potential customers are addicted to cheaper optics.


I am no expert for Sony lens prices, but you can get e.g. an RF 50mm f/1.8 STM e.g. on Amazon for US-$ 199,-. Of course, this is way to expensive for an Indian day-laborer living in the street, but I doubt Sony has something much cheaper to offer him. So there may be other reasons why Canon lost market shares in India, and I can imagine that this is connected with a sort of coolness factor Sony has there, and Canon not.

My impression is that it was a wise decision from Canon to come up with expensive lenses with spectacular specs for their new RF line. I guess this is one reason why Nikon couldn't establish their Z cameras that well, because their first Z lenses weren't that spectacular. Canon's management accepted that the ILC market has shrunken to one for more wealthy enthusiasts and an always small pro section, since the smartphone is the true successor of P&S cameras. It is again a little bit like in the 1950s, where only the more wealthy people could afford a Leica with some lenses. But there is still a lot of good, affordable EF and EF-S glass available, plus Canon introduces now much cheaper RF glass, too.


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## allanP (Feb 18, 2022)

justaCanonuser said:


> I am no expert for Sony lens prices, but you can get e.g. an RF 50mm f/1.8 STM e.g. on Amazon for US-$ 199,-. Of course, this is way to expensive for an Indian day-laborer living in the street, but I doubt Sony has something much cheaper to offer him. So there may be other reasons why Canon lost market shares in India, and I can imagine that this is connected with a sort of coolness factor Sony has there, and Canon not.



I don't mean a lens you mentioned here, I mean affordable system and wide availability of the alternative products. For example, you start with an APSC or cheaper FF camera and 1-2 lenses and have the option to expand further. With RF, the selection is limited to the manufacturer's own optics (and the cheaper products have only recently become available) and cannot keep up with the offer from Sony + Tamron + Sigma and others. There is a much more extensive range of products available, similar to the situation with Canon in the DSLR days. Even if the cheaper RF lenses are now coming, Canon is too late and has simply gambled away such markets. Whether it's India, Southeast Asia, Africa or South America, it doesn't matter.
The coolness factor is no longer important for DSLRs (i.e. with EF and EF-S), because only mirrorless is seen as cool and canon has to lose out there.
I have spent some years in such countries. You won't get very far with our views. Our purchasing behavior is different, our appreciation is different, our options are different.
For such parts of the world (and they are incredibly large) Canon is too late and too expensive.

But I share this opinion with you:
Canon management has accepted that as the smartphone is the true successor to P&S cameras, the ILC market has shrunk to one for wealthier enthusiasts and an ever smaller professional section.


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## entoman (Feb 18, 2022)

All manufacturers cherry-pick statistics, but it's very clear that Sony has moved quite rapidly from becoming a rebadged Minolta seller to arguably the biggest (depending on chosen statistic) brand in photography.

It makes me retch sometimes when I read comments from trolls and brand-warriors desperately trying to bash "brand X" or desperately trying to defend "brand Y", and I can only attribute this behaviour to severe character defects in those folk.

The number of camera brands and models available to us these days is far lower than was the case a few decades ago when we all shot in film, but nevertheless we have a huge choice. None of the current brands are likely to disappear overnight, and whatever brand we use, lenses will remain available for many years new or used.

The main reason I switched to CR after many years of commenting on dpreview, was to get away from the ridiculous brand-warfare and associated ignorance and rudeness, so I hope articles like this one don't bring out the worst in people here.


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## illadvisedhammer (Feb 18, 2022)

justaCanonuser said:


> DPR is a toxic place especially for Canon users since many years, about ten years ago it was a much better place to look for useful information and comments. Some threads are still okay, but I visit DPR only a few times a year anymore
> 
> 
> Well, it's even worse if you ask WHAT photographs some of those guys take IF they do, I sometimes really wonder what garbage in their wildlife challenges pops up as winners. I am not the arrogant guy who loves to write bad comments about others images, but I would be ashamed to show what sometimes can be seen there, getting good rates. Of course, really great images also can be seen there sometimes, but there are better places if you look for good photography itself - from photographers I can still learn how to do better.


What communities do you recommend for posting images for constructive feedback that helps you improve? How genre specific are these preferences?


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## entoman (Feb 18, 2022)

allanP said:


> I don't mean a lens you mentioned here, I mean affordable system and wide availability of the alternative products. For example, you start with an APSC or cheaper FF camera and 1-2 lenses and have the option to expand further. With RF, the selection is limited to the manufacturer's own optics (and the cheaper products have only recently become available) and cannot keep up with the offer from Sony + Tamron + Sigma and others. There is a much more extensive range of products available, similar to the situation with Canon in the DSLR days. Even if the cheaper RF lenses are now coming, Canon is too late and has simply gambled away such markets. Whether it's India, Southeast Asia, Africa or South America, it doesn't matter.
> The coolness factor is no longer important for DSLRs (i.e. with EF and EF-S), because only mirrorless is seen as cool and canon has to lose out there.
> I have spent some years in such countries. You won't get very far with our views. Our purchasing behavior is different, our appreciation is different, our options are different.
> For such parts of the world (and they are incredibly large) Canon is too late and too expensive.
> ...


Canon's M system was designed primarily to cater for the different requirements of the Asian market, and sells extremely well, particularly in Japan.

Based on my own observations when travelling, and on comments made to me by local people, in India the most popular cameras with "serious" photographers are Nikons, and everyone else uses smartphones. In Africa and South America it's very unusual to see anyone with a DSLR or MILC - other than foreign tourists.

It's a great shame that local populations in Asia, S.America and Africa are generally unable to afford the cameras that we in the developed world take for granted. India IMO currently produces some of the world's best photographers, particularly in the wildlife and social/street categories.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 18, 2022)

illadvisedhammer said:


> What communities do you recommend for posting images for constructive feedback that helps you improve? How genre specific are these preferences?


I'd look on flickr and instagram, but you have to find which group fits personally to you, also on facebook you can have luck. In fact, currently I am more interested in analogue photography, so my experience may not help you. Plus, I prefer spending the spare time left over in my busy life for doing photography, not much posting and discussing stuff. Regarding wildlife, I prefer to study the images of real pros, award winners etc. to learn something useful.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 18, 2022)

allanP said:


> I don't mean a lens you mentioned here, I mean affordable system and wide availability of the alternative products. For example, you start with an APSC or cheaper FF camera and 1-2 lenses and have the option to expand further. With RF, the selection is limited to the manufacturer's own optics (and the cheaper products have only recently become available) and cannot keep up with the offer from Sony + Tamron + Sigma and others.


I pretty sure that we see Sigma and Tamron lenses for the RF mount during this and the next year. Canon has just started with it, Sony is 10 years ahead. So far, you can work well with DSLR lenses and an RF-EF adapter, if you want. According to what I read that works quite well. So the situation is as disruptive as back in the 80s, when Canon radically changed from the FD to the EF mount to get a new, technically clean solution. Many Canon users were upset, but it was a wise decision. Nikon had a lot of trouble with their noisy, slow in-camera AF drives in the beginning, because they wanted to keep their mount compatible for all lenses since the 1950s. Canon could show off with their new, fast and silent USM drives and attract many pros and enthusiasts back then, who wanted to shoot action.


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## stevelee (Feb 18, 2022)

I read some years back that Cadillac was having trouble gaining much of a foothold in China. For whatever reason, Buicks were considered more prestigious.


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## koenkooi (Feb 19, 2022)

illadvisedhammer said:


> What communities do you recommend for posting images for constructive feedback that helps you improve? How genre specific are these preferences?


For me, small scale workshops have taught me a lot in areas I didn't expect. I mostly do macro, so context is hard to gauge from the end result. At the workshops the instructor asked why I would pick a specific side of a flower and pointed out better framing devices on the other side.

In the butterfly and dragonflies threads here on canonrumors people aren't shy to share their techniques, approach and even some failed shots. I find that very instructive and sidesteps the issue that people, in general, react badly to any and every form of criticism, however well intended.


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## allanP (Feb 19, 2022)

stevelee said:


> I read some years back that Cadillac was having trouble gaining much of a foothold in China. For whatever reason, Buicks were considered more prestigious.


Both useless


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## masterpix (Feb 20, 2022)

diegopisante said:


> I've used professionally Canon since 2003, and for the first time I'm really considering switching to Sony, I really disagree with Canon glass prices and also we don't have third parties glasses options...I still using the, 28 1.8 bought in 2007, 16-35 2.8 LII bought in 2009, 70-200 2.8 L bought in 2011, and 24-70 2.8 LII bought in 2014, now Canon is dropping the EF and soon will not price maintenance for these glasses...and we will be f**
> That's a funny history considering someone who started to shoot with the Sony Mavica with floppy disk LOL


I have 24-105L and 100-400L EF glass (bought between 2017 to 2019) and you know what? the EF-R converter is working perfectly with them on my R5. So the issue of "I have expensive glass, it is another mount" is no issue at all. Switching to another brand means that you either need to buy all new glass or, surprise!, a converter to match the lens to the body. So it all ends in a 99$ converter that you can buy and resolve all your troubles.


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## AlanF (Feb 20, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> For me, small scale workshops have taught me a lot in areas I didn't expect. I mostly do macro, so context is hard to gauge from the end result. At the workshops the instructor asked why I would pick a specific side of a flower and pointed out better framing devices on the other side.
> 
> In the butterfly and dragonflies threads here on canonrumors people aren't shy to share their techniques, approach and even some failed shots. I find that very instructive and sidesteps the issue that people, in general, react badly to any and every form of criticism, however well intended.


I had a tough learning curve from the mods on a Dutch bird site, birdpix.nl. If you want a straight answer go to the Netherlands - which is easy for you!


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## maulanawale (Feb 21, 2022)

As a M43 shooter, I'm used to reading armchair photographers belittling my gear choices. Never had an actual serious photographer look down on me for it though, if anything, the people I usually shoot with are curious about all systems and what they have to offer.
What really grinds my gears is condescendence. This attitude of " oh you got that camera, that's cute, mine does 16K120FPS" as if those of us that invest the time. money and effort in photography are not smart enough to read reviews, check the market and make an informed decision. I think it is safe t say that most of us here chose the gear we shoot with, we weren't sold anything. And they kind of people that are sold something, will probably be happy with whatever they end up being sold and don't really frequent these forums.

It is funny to see though how the argumentation changes with time depending who's got the shiniest toy on offer. we all have heard that if you can't get the shot with 12fps you can't get it with 20, but now that my brand of choice does 30, how come you settle for 20? Same with MPx, AF points, 

That's one thing that I think sets this site apart. There's very knowledgeable people that, granted not always with the best manners, provide some actual value. I've even learnt some Latin here


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## stevelee (Feb 21, 2022)

When traveling, I get really good pictures with the so-called 1" sensor in my G5X II. Far be it from me to deride MFT.


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