# Buying lenses (or bodies) right after Christmas (poll added!)



## YuengLinger (Dec 29, 2014)

Read two similar articles yesterday, one from the USA, the other from the UK, about this year setting records for customer returns online and in person. Apparently there is a cottage industry surrounding this activity, with some companies simply liquidating trucks full of returns, selling them to brokers who eventually get them online and into lower tier retail shops. 

But according to the WALL STREET JOURNAL, some of the online and big-box giants resell 70% of returns after a quick going over.

Does this make seasoned gear purchasers avoid buying after Christmas--EVEN FROM BIG NAME, AUTHORIZED DEALERS?  Seems much more likely to get a lens or something else that has been played with and bounced around during deliveries.

And when we see deals from lesser-known companies online, sometimes mentioned here or at CPW, are we seeing the items that are being brokered out?

I also wonder if the same applies to CPW "Street Price" items, where returns that are deemed fine except for packaging get sold at sometimes big discounts?

If interested, here are the links, WSJ first, then FINANCIAL TIMES:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/with-christmas-over-millions-of-gift-returns-begin-1419627514?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_business

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/eedfc436-8e76-11e4-ac79-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3NH9qqUQM


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## Dylan777 (Dec 29, 2014)

Have you ever use CPW-street price before? Let's not mix up between authorized dealers Vs unauthorized ones on ebay.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 29, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Have you ever use CPW-street price before? Let's not mix up between authorized dealers Vs unauthorized ones on ebay.



I've been tempted, which is why I asked if items sold that way are deeply discounted because of pacage issues. By authorized, I would assume well known online retailers. Didn't think ebay companies.

But are you hesitant to buy from anybody this time of year?


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## takesome1 (Dec 29, 2014)

I am no more hesitant about buying from shady dealers at this time of year than any other time.

Buy from reputable dealers with sound return policies and you will not have a problem.
A cheap price from a dealer with no return policy can cost you more in the long run.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 29, 2014)

takesome1 said:


> I am no more hesitant about buying from shady dealers at this time of year than any other time.
> 
> Buy from reputable dealers with sound return policies and you will not have a problem.
> A cheap price from a dealer with no return policy can cost you more in the long run.



Apparently, my original post wasn't clear enough. I am not focusing on shady dealers, unauthorized, etc. I'm asking whether the increased odds of getting somebody else's return from, for example, Amazon, B&H, or Adorama, would make experienced photographers wait until sometime after Christmas.

The articles in the link make clear that big name stores recycle as much as 70% of returns, so, because of volume, online shoppers are more likely to bet getting one of those returns than during other times.


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## takesome1 (Dec 29, 2014)

YuengLinger said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > I am no more hesitant about buying from shady dealers at this time of year than any other time.
> ...



As I said, buy from reputable dealers and there isn't a problem.
I buy much of my gear online from B&H. With the return policy they have if you get someone's second hand return you can ship it back and ask for another.


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## RGF (Dec 29, 2014)

not sure what most stores do with returned electronics. Generally if the item looks like it has been repackaged up, I would return it and ask for an item that had not been previously opened. Most retailers I deal with would glad cooperate.

Some retailers may sell returned items as previously opened or return the item to the manufacturer. Depends upon their agreement.


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## Dylan777 (Dec 29, 2014)

YuengLinger said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you ever use CPW-street price before? Let's not mix up between authorized dealers Vs unauthorized ones on ebay.
> ...



I used CPW-street price on 16-35 f4 IS and 200mm f2 IS. I was surprised when I got a phone from a VERY KNOWN US Canon authorized dealer. Before I gave them my American Express, I told the prep loud & clear "I DO NOT want a returned or opened item". I wanted a factory sealed ones. Both items I received were exactly what I wanted - single tape factory sealed from original packaging. 

I didn't save much on 16-35, the saving was just much to buy B&W 007 Clear filter for the lens itself. However, the saving on 200mm f2 IS was HUGE. Bottom line is, I know for sure that I spent my money on legit products and support both Canon dealers and Canon R&D itself.

If the discounts are big enough, with no defects and come with 1yr US Canon standard warranty, I don't see why not ;D

Trust me, I almost pull trigger on 2nd 1DX over the holidays. Other people hate the sound, size and weight of this BEAST - I LOVE IT. More likely to use CPW-street price on my 2nd 1DX in near future.


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## JPAZ (Dec 29, 2014)

I agree with the others who will not hesitate if it is a product from a reputable dealer with a return policy. 

Also, 1+ on the CPW "street price" deals. I have saved significantly over the past couple of years with a 300 f/2.8 ii, a 70-200 f/2.8 ii and a 24-70 f/2.8 ii. All of these products were brand new each from a very well known authorized dealer. I would not hesitate to use this service again.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 29, 2014)

And I am sorely tempted by an ef 500mm f/4 that's been on CPW since just before the 25th.


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 29, 2014)

RGF said:


> not sure what most stores do with returned electronics. Generally if the item looks like it has been repackaged up, I would return it and ask for an item that had not been previously opened. Most retailers I deal with would glad cooperate.
> 
> Some retailers may sell returned items as previously opened or return the item to the manufacturer. Depends upon their agreement.



In my experience and understanding, most reputable retailers will sell returned items several ways. If it is still factory sealed and in perfect shape they usually just sell it again as new. If it is opened or used but still in perfect working order, it may be sold at a discount with disclosure that it was a return item. And then if the item is faulty, it will go back to the manufacturer.

The problems occur when the retailer is scammed/tricked with return items that appear unopened but were not only opened but the item is removed (stolen) and replaced with a brick or something and sealed up to appear unopened. (Rocks in Box situations.) Or the retailer intentionally or accidentally makes a mistake that misleads the customer about the working condition, etc. So some retailers will open every single box regardless of appearance to make sure the item wasn't stolen and returned. So that means every single return must be sold at a discount. And a lot of customers won't buy a return item regardless of discount because they don't want the hassle of possible problems.

The whole return process can cause bad outcomes for the customer and make the retailer appear incompetent or shady so some retailers just wash their hands of the whole process by selling returns off wholesale to help ensure customer loyalty, satisfaction, etc. And then others distance themselves from the discount return item buyers a bit by selling on eBay, etc where buying used items is more tolerable.

To answer the OP question: Would I buy from a retailer at this time of year? Sure! If it's a reputable retailer, they are going to sell new items as new items. Otherwise, it will be sold as 'open box' or whatever. If it's a shady seller, it doesn't matter when I want to get screwed over, they will probably do that whenever I am ready and willing.

CPW has never given me any reason to suspect a problem. I have enjoyed some great deals through CPW so I think CPW works very hard to maintain trust between both the retailers and the customer/subscribers.


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## JonAustin (Dec 29, 2014)

I infer from YuengLinger's original post some association between returned products and defective / used products. It would be interesting to see some industry data (particular from the SLR body / lens / accessory industry, since that's what we're all about here) on the percentage breakdown of returns between new, like new, used, damaged, defective, etc.

I've purchased a lot of Canon-brand gear over the past 10+ years from B&H, Adorama, Amazon and others, including smaller web merchants and local brick and mortar stores. I've never asked if an item advertised as new was a return, nor have I stated that I would only buy an item that had not been returned, and I've never had a problem with any of this gear.

I've only returned one lens (and no bodies, speedlites, etc.), an EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM. There was nothing wrong with it, either when I received it or when I returned it. I just decided after using it for a week or so that it wasn't for me. (I later purchased an EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM, which I've now had for 5½ years.)

I'm planning to buy another lens before 12/31, to charge the expense to this year's books. I'll either buy through CPW or by linking to B&H through The-Digital-Picture.com (I have a $50 reward balance with B&H). No concerns here about the quality of the merchandise, regardless which of these purchase paths I take.


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## slclick (Dec 29, 2014)

I buy when I both need and afford. Rebates are nice but not an incentive (I actually have one coming!)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 3, 2015)

I've been thinking and watching for a refurb SX50, waiting for it to hit my price level. I managed to hit one for 179.99 with free overnight shipping right after Christmas.

It has always been true that some of the bottom feeder camera shops have sold returned cameras as new. They are not authorized dealers, and must buy cameras where they can. That happened to me in the 1980's and I learned to buy from B&H after that. Back then, I used advertisements in camera magazines to find what I wanted. It only took one time to learn.

The internet has forced many of the 2nd tier dealers to clean up their act, but there are still plenty of them who prey on buyers who want to believe that you can buy new items for far below dealer cost.

The CPW street price is not a link to one of these, but to the real deal.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 3, 2015)

I just bought a 16-35 f4 IS via CPW. It is from a Canon USA dealer with full USA warranty, so clearly I don't care.

But I don't understand this worry about returned goods. If you read B&H and Adorama's policies they reserve the right to sell you returns, and lets face it, with so many people being supercritical, and others ordering 2 or more copies to 'test' and expecting retailers to honour no quibble returns, what do you expect? My last lens purchase was a 1.4TC MkIII (from B&H but that is irrelevant), it was in the box and Styrofoam blocks sideways and had fingerprints on it, does that make it unsaleable? Not to me, I checked it for performance and am happy with it, it has more fingerprints on it now too! 

How does somebody having opened the box degrade a lens? Where do you expect all those perfectly good lenses to go once the box is opened? 

And, most importantly, who do you expect to pay for all those opened box returns? We all do!


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## Dylan777 (Jan 3, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> I just bought a 16-35 f4 IS via CPW. It is from a Canon USA dealer with full USA warranty, so clearly I don't care.
> 
> But I don't understand this worry about returned goods. If you read B&H and Adorama's policies they reserve the right to sell you returns, and lets face it, with so many people being supercritical, and others ordering 2 or more copies to 'test' and expecting retailers to honour no quibble returns, what do you expect? My last lens purchase was a 1.4TC MkIII (from B&H but that is irrelevant), it was in the box and Styrofoam blocks sideways and had fingerprints on it, does that make it unsaleable? Not to me, I checked it for performance and am happy with it, it has more fingerprints on it now too!
> 
> ...



Have fun with your new toy. Share some pix


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## CaptainZero (Jan 3, 2015)

I need, well...wanted a 7d2. I bought from a local dealer, but I wanted to get it before the new year so I could write it off. 

I took the poll before reading so I picked two. None of them really fit my situation.


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