# what do you want to see 7D Mark III



## RGF (Aug 4, 2017)

My wish list includes

- Better AF, on part or better than 1Dx M2. Find the 7D M2 does not AF as well as the 1Dx M2 (could be operator error).
- F8 AF on all or at least many points
- Two body options. Body with detached grip (like current) and body w/ integrated grip (similar to the 1Dx M2)
- 10-12 FPS
- I guess 4K video though shoot video < 1% of the time.
- 24 MP
- Low light/High ISO better than current 7D M2 [note: corrected from overly optimistic goal of 1Dx M2] by 1-2 stops
- Cfast and CF card though I suspect we will get Cfast and SD - though with an integrated grip CFast and CF would be possible
- MLU similar to 5DS (option to wait between 0.5 - 2 seconds and then expose sensor)

In this list the only unlikely items are integrated grip (current form factor will remain with an optional grip) and hence no CFast and CF card combination

Anyone else care to share their "realistic" thoughts on what you hope to see in the 7D M3.


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## Fleetie (Aug 4, 2017)

RGF said:


> My wish list includes
> 
> - Low light/High ISO better than 1Dx M2 by 1-2 stops
> 
> ...


Ha-ha-ha! With a crop sensor, too! Chortle!


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## deadwrong (Aug 4, 2017)

;D 4k? He said 4k? BAHAHAHAHA.........in a Canon DSLR?


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## unfocused (Aug 4, 2017)

Wish list or anticipated features?

Expected:

Touch Screen,
WiFi, Blue Tooth, NFC,
Incremental improvements in autofocus,
Incremental increase in frame rate,
Incremental improvements in weather sealing,
Increased MP count -- hoping for no more than 26-28,
On Chip ADC,
Multiple f8 focus points.

Possible:

CFast and CF card slots

Hoping For:

Improvements in noise control (I would expect that a half a stop would be about the maximum).


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## RGF (Aug 4, 2017)

Fleetie said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > My wish list includes
> ...



good point. Perhaps 1-2 stops better than current?


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## JoFT (Aug 4, 2017)

main topics from my side (having 7D2 and EOSM5)



Sensor of M5 or better
full display autofocus area
touch display
wifi & bluetooth & NFC
articulated screen
4kVideo/60Hz h.265
Not that much...


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## tron (Aug 4, 2017)

RGF said:


> My wish list includes
> 
> - Better AF, on part or better than 1Dx M2. Find the 7D M2 does not AF as well as the 1Dx M2 (could be operator error).
> - F8 AF on all or at least many points
> ...


OK you basically want everything. But you describe a 6 or 8K euro/dollar/pound camera.

The comparison with the full frame 1DxMkII is so highly unrealistic. Or you are describing Canon 7DMkVI ;D

More down to earth are these:

- Better AF,
- F8 AF on all 
- 10-12 FPS
- 24 MP
- Low light/High ISO better than current 7D M2 by (hopefully) 1 stop 
- MLU similar to 5DS (option to wait between 0.5 - 2 seconds and then expose sensor)
- Touch Screen
- Wifi in addition to GPS

There is actually no reason for the very CFAST card. I do not think they will have 4K/60p. CF and SD are OK ( SD UHS-II support would be nice)


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## Hector1970 (Aug 4, 2017)

For me it's a better image quality in the end. I don't find the image as clear as it should be especially as ISO goes up. I always feel it's lacking. I don't expect it to be as good as full frame but much better.
12 FPS would be good. I'm not a fan of the 7DII / 5DSR sensor. At the time too many pixels crammed in.


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## reef58 (Aug 4, 2017)

Less noise. A bit of accuracy improvement in AF. Other than that I am good


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## tron (Aug 4, 2017)

Hector1970 said:


> For me it's a better image quality in the end. I don't find the image as clear as it should be especially as ISO goes up. I always feel it's lacking. I don't expect it to be as good as full frame but much better.
> 12 FPS would be good. I'm not a fan of the 7DII / 5DSR sensor. At the time too many pixels crammed in.


Have you tested 5DsR and 7DII or 7DII only? I thought the same for 5DsR until I bought it. It's IQ is better than 7DII in low ISO (at least up to 1000).


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## YuengLinger (Aug 11, 2017)

A FF sensor at a cropped price! :

Smaller and lighter without sacrificing weather sealing and build.


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## ahsanford (Aug 11, 2017)

I'd keep your feet on the ground. 

It will likely just be a 7D2 with a little more. A new sensor + 2 more fps + larger buffer + (more or less) the 1DX2 AF system + touchscreen + 4K. Done. 

It doesn't need to melt faces, it needs to be fast, focus well, etc. Some folks scream about on-chip ADC with this rig -- and it probably will get it -- but I'm not sure the not-living-at-base-ISO birding/wildlife community needs it or the soccer mom / football dad that buys this even knows what DR is. 

- A


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## SecureGSM (Aug 11, 2017)

...tilty-flippy, DPAF are another couple of items I would add to your list 


ahsanford said:


> I'd keep your feet on the ground.
> 
> It will likely just be a 7D2 with a little more. A new sensor + 2 more fps + larger buffer + (more or less) the 1DX2 AF system + touchscreen + 4K. Done.
> 
> ...


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## ahsanford (Aug 11, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> ...tilty-flippy, DPAF are another couple of items I would add to your list
> 
> 
> ahsanford said:
> ...



Forgot tilty-flippy. I'd call that a 50-50 chance on a punishing in-the-field camera like this. (Not arguing against it, I'd want one myself.)

But the 7D2 already has DPAF -- it just doesn't have a touchscreen to make it sing right now.

- A


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## GlynH (Aug 11, 2017)

deadwrong said:


> ;D 4k? He said 4k? BAHAHAHAHA.........in a Canon DSLR?



Yeah he said 4K. You know like in the Canon 1DX MKII & 5D MKIV DSLR's. BAHAHAHAHA.........


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## TomDibble (Aug 11, 2017)

I am a little mixed on touchscreen/tilty-flippy.

First, it is more fragile than a standard screen, no question, and this is a bang-up device right now (well, as much as you'd bang up any DSLR). So, that's a point against it.

But the feature is absolutely awesome for better perspective photography, which isn't necessarily *the* use of 7Dii today, but enough people want a single camera to fill multiple needs not just for out on the sports field / track.

Still, if the startup time could be improved significantly, the idea of using the app for live view is incredibly compelling. For instance, I had expected to be using the flip screen on my 80D to get overhead shots of a team meeting, putting the camera up on a monopod and suspending it over the meeting for overhead shots, triggering with a remote. Then I realized that I had a better screen on my phone and it acts as a remote focus and trigger too, so I fired up the app and used that to frame and trigger instead; worked like a charm. The downside is it takes a good 30 seconds to get the app up and connected, and if I were to use this every time I want a ground-level or suspended-over-the-fence shot I'd go insane.

IMHO, Canon will likely give us a tilty-flippy screen on the 7Diii. It just makes sense in their product lineup, and is much less fragile if left in non-tilted position. It is actually more bang-proof when in storage if you flip the screen around when not using it. And, like it or not, it sells devices.


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## Ryananthony (Aug 11, 2017)

Why can't Canon make a tilt screen like every other company. I hate the way it folds out and to the side of the camera. And yes, Ive owned and used them before.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 11, 2017)

> .. putting the camera up on a monopod and suspending it over the meeting for overhead shots..


 It would greatly depend on the Health and Safety regulations in the country of your origin. You may be out of luck or out your house. I am sorry if my sense of humour fails me.. 
fragile tilty flippy: I take care to attach glass screen protector to the lCD screen of all of my cams right out of the box. it saved my beacon and my wallet on number of occasions. 



> ... And, like it or not, it sells devices....



you bet! for mums and dads especially.




TomDibble said:


> I am a little mixed on touchscreen/tilty-flippy.
> 
> First, it is more fragile than a standard screen, no question, and this is a bang-up device right now (well, as much as you'd bang up any DSLR). So, that's a point against it.
> 
> ...


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## ahsanford (Aug 11, 2017)

Ryananthony said:


> Why can't Canon make a tilt screen like every other company. I hate the way it folds out and to the side of the camera. And yes, Ive owned and used them before.



Why does Canon not give us [name any feature] that we want? Because they have data that says it won't kill them to leave it out.

Presumably the 7D2 had a tilty-flippy left out because Canon has market research that says it would be less valuable to photographers on sports' sidelines and in the bush shooting wildlife than (say) a general photographer. Or there is a stigma to the more rough/demanding field shooters that such features are more damage-prone -- those folks might prize overall durability/toughness over the upside of a tilty-flippy.

As many have debunked on this forum, tilty-flippy screens work brilliantly and fears of them taking damage can be easily solved by never tilting-swiveling them.

In the end, I think every camera will get a tilty-flippy other than the 1-series. Whether the 7D3 does or not is a 50-50 in my mind right now.

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 11, 2017)

Ryananthony said:


> Why can't Canon make a tilt screen like every other company. I hate the way it folds out and to the side of the camera. And yes, Ive owned and used them before.



Also, I missed that other bit. Swiveling to the side is (presumably) for vloggers, who need a front-facing solution.

- A


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## bhf3737 (Aug 11, 2017)

Only two:
1. Better noise handling at higher ISO (3200 up to 6400 or a bit more) on RAW and SOOC jpegs.
2. Spot metering linked to AF points.
Everything else can stay as it is or get incrementally better.


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## AlanF (Aug 11, 2017)

Remove the low-pass filter. The 5DSR gives so much sharper images cropped to the same size. That and improved AF would be enough for me to upgrade.


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 11, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Ryananthony said:
> 
> 
> > Why can't Canon make a tilt screen like every other company. I hate the way it folds out and to the side of the camera. And yes, Ive owned and used them before.
> ...



If having it doesn't affect durability and 5D and 7D consumers shouldn't mind, why is the 1D any different? What means that the 1D should stay with a fixed screen?


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## Deleted member 91053 (Aug 11, 2017)

For me the 7D3 (whishlist) is 1DX Mk1 AF, a lowish MP APSH sensor - 16MP or less, no wi fi, no GPS, no video, no flippy screen, no more whizz bang features that are of o use and a battery grip that accepts 1 series batteries.

Not going to happen - but that is what I want ;D


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## 9VIII (Aug 12, 2017)

I still want a 7Ds, 50MP APS-C body, the absolute best Macro machine imaginable.

I would probably prefer a 50MP Crop sensor in the 80D body because it's lighter, and the SL2 body would be better still, but for the kind of marketing that Canon likes to associate with excessive resolution they would probably use the 7D as a base model.


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## ahsanford (Aug 12, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> If having it doesn't affect durability and 5D and 7D consumers shouldn't mind, why is the 1D any different? What means that the 1D should stay with a fixed screen?



Total guess on my part, but here goes:

1-series users these days are all _more likely_ (but not necessarily all) legacy 1D people (or 7D people that stepped up) that are in the field shooting high speed stuff -- not old 1Ds studio folks. 

They are folks that are the most demanding physically on their gear, and that gear is far more likely to take drops, impact, collisions, _who knows_ (whiplash in surf shooting, rubber/real bullet fire with war/protest reportage, etc.)

They are also in the field all the time, so they have to deal with the worst temperature extremes, precipitation, etc.

So it's logical that they would see any moving bits as a threat to the invulnerability of their rigs. Again, we lack any data on this, but one would imagine a tilty flippy can't take a hit from an (American) football player run out of bounds on a tackle as well as an traditional integral screen body. Tilty-flippies work well in general use as many here will attest, but can they take _that_ kind of punishment?

I'm playing devil's advocate here -- I think a tilty-flippy is a high value feature that all levels of photographers would benefit from. But some folks have different priorities and may see this feature as not being worth the very very small additional risk of failure. When you are out in the s--- shooting something like this, you may want to keep the moving bits to a minimum -- but I defer to the football sideline / desert rally racing / arctic fox chasing / war correspondents to speak to that.

- A


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 12, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > If having it doesn't affect durability and 5D and 7D consumers shouldn't mind, why is the 1D any different? What means that the 1D should stay with a fixed screen?
> ...



Well and that's my point - since a tilty-flippy clearly _is_ a durability compromise, who's to say which bodies it's acceptable on? The XXD and 6D, surely. The 7D? That might be used for football, even if only high school or small-school college, or AFL, or the like, but that can still be quite a hit to get run into by one of those players. Birders might want more durability in the wild as well. The 5D is the one I see most likely to add a tilty-flippy, but it would make me sad. Durability is comforting when you're clumsy...


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## tron (Aug 12, 2017)

johnf3f said:


> For me the 7D3 (whishlist) is 1DX Mk1 AF, a lowish MP APSH sensor - 16MP or less, no wi fi, no GPS, no video, no flippy screen, no more whizz bang features that are of o use and a battery grip that accepts 1 series batteries.
> 
> Not going to happen - but that is what I want ;D


You can still find it cheap: 1D MkIV ok more or less


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## Deleted member 91053 (Aug 12, 2017)

tron said:


> johnf3f said:
> 
> 
> > For me the 7D3 (whishlist) is 1DX Mk1 AF, a lowish MP APSH sensor - 16MP or less, no wi fi, no GPS, no video, no flippy screen, no more whizz bang features that are of o use and a battery grip that accepts 1 series batteries.
> ...



Used to have a 1D4, great camera. Been spoilt these days with the 1DX!

If Canon were to build a NEW APSH sensor with moderate MP then the high ISO performance could be quite a bit better than the current 7D2. Add a bump up in the AF performance and I think we could have a very high performing and sensibly priced wildlife/sports body.


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## Mikehit (Aug 14, 2017)

For me, an improved AF. I have read elsewhere that the unpredictability of the AF is as much down to the higher pixel density as anything, though I notice that people think the AF of the 5DSR is better. So who knows....

Two other thing I would find useful for wildlife is all-point AF at f8 and touchscreen that allows you to change focus point with the camera at your eye: being able to dab the screen on my Panasonic MFT to change AF point is something I have used several times.


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## Hector1970 (Aug 14, 2017)

tron said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > For me it's a better image quality in the end. I don't find the image as clear as it should be especially as ISO goes up. I always feel it's lacking. I don't expect it to be as good as full frame but much better.
> ...


Yes I've both. Unsatisfied with both. The 5DIV for me produces better images than the 5DSR. It's my number 1 choice.
At higher magnification I find the 7DII and 5DSR images are smudgy where a 5DIII or 5DIV are still clean.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 14, 2017)

That is, actually, correct. 5D IV about 15% sharper than 5DsR at pixel level. 7D II is approx. in the same ball park with 5DsR.

5d IV and 80D produce much sharper images at pixel level. 80D is even sharper (slightly) than 5D IV.
I posted this before, but here is the hope that both 5DsR II and 7D III will inherit sensor tech from 80D up-scaled to whatever sensor size Canon choose to use in new bodies.



Hector1970 said:


> Yes I've both. Unsatisfied with both. The 5DIV for me produces better images than the 5DSR. It's my number 1 choice.
> At higher magnification I find the 7DII and 5DSR images are smudgy where a 5DIII or 5DIV are still clean.


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## Daner (Aug 15, 2017)

I'd like them to do everything possible to go head-to-head with the D500 and damn the price, but I'd settle for the following: 80D sensor, but as close to 1-series autofocus as they can get. Keep it at least 10 fps. 100% viewfinder at 1.0 magnification. Touchscreen, but no need for tilty/flippy. Much faster, more user-friendly pairing and remote capabilities with smartphones. At least match the best video capabilities among Canon DSLRs.

In short, give me reasons to be happy not to sell off my small Canon glass collection and start over with another brand for shooting indoor sports on a sub full-frame budget.


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## IglooEater (Aug 15, 2017)

RGF said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > RGF said:
> ...



If we got 1-2 stops better high ISO every time it's been asked for it in a successive model, we'd be taking picture of black holes with our iPhones ;D


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## Don Haines (Aug 16, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > Fleetie said:
> ...


Since no light escapes a black hole, it really does not matter which camera you use


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## -Gamer- (Aug 16, 2017)

Toss the 1DX MKll autofocus system in it. 

Remove low pass filter.

Spot metering linked to focus point. 

If it comes with the above I'd be all over it. If not I'm good with my current setup 7D MKll with 100-400 version 2


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## pwp (Aug 16, 2017)

johnf3f said:


> For me the 7D3 (whishlist) is 1DX Mk1 AF, a lowish MP APSH sensor - 16MP or less, no wi fi, no GPS, no video, no flippy screen, no more whizz bang features that are of o use and a battery grip that accepts 1 series batteries.
> Not going to happen - but that is what I want ;D



Your camera is available right now. Go find yourself a good low mileage 1D MkIV. 
It's exactly what you've described.

-pw


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## Mikehit (Aug 16, 2017)

-Gamer- said:


> Toss the 1DX MKll autofocus system in it.


Unless you are going to put in a dedicated focussing processor and double the size of the metering sensor that will be pretty much pointless.


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## tomscott (Aug 16, 2017)

For me if they just stick the 80D sensor and add a touch screen in it would be fine for my usage I think the 7DMKII is really rather excellent as it is.

One thing I would like is if they could improve the consistency of the AF it may have the same AF system as the 5DMKIII and 1DX but it certainly doesnt hit anywhere near as accurately and consistently.

Many occasions it will acquire focus and I will get a frame that is completely out, nothing in the frame is in focus even on the standard AF profile shooting still subjects. It can be frustrating.

When it does hit its fantastic. I had none of these issues with the 5DMKIII.

The 80D and 6DMKII have the same issue so I think it may be something to do with the DPAF.


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## xps (Aug 16, 2017)

24MP
1-1.5 stops better noise
Not lesser DR, or an better one (PLEASE! Canon don´t do this again (6DII))
Touchscreen, tiltable, better resolution, maybe a little bit bigger
faster low-noise-mode on shutter for "noise critical" conditions


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## IglooEater (Aug 16, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > RGF said:
> ...



By Hawking radiation theory, a black hole releases something like one photon every light crossing time if I'm remembering stuff straight. Our cameras ought to be able to pick up that photon. ;D (provided of course that the photon from a million light years away happens to hit the 6 square centimètres of camera sensor)


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## Don Haines (Aug 16, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



And that is why the 7D3 needs ISO 9,007,199,254,740,992,000


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## IglooEater (Aug 16, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


Or 1,000 stops of DR so I can get a picture of the sun and recover the black hole in the background.


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## Daner (Aug 21, 2017)

tomscott said:


> For me if they just stick the 80D sensor and add a touch screen in it would be fine for my usage I think the 7DMKII is really rather excellent as it is.
> 
> One thing I would like is if they could improve the consistency of the AF it may have the same AF system as the 5DMKIII and 1DX but it certainly doesnt hit anywhere near as accurately and consistently.
> 
> ...



That would definitely be the quick and lazy way to do it, but it would be sufficient to get me to upgrade from my 70D pretty much immediately.


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## ufaforwork (Aug 21, 2017)

4K is real!!!!!! LMAO สมัครufabet


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## haggie (Aug 21, 2017)

In my opinion the 7F (Mark x) is the top of the cropped-series, and a true 'photo machine" for action photography. Not video. And it must stay that way, in my humble opinion.
As you cannot have it all at the present price level I would therefore prefer to NOT see 4K in the 7D Mark III.

I would like to see the following in the 7D Mark III.
1. A bit more DR, spread evenly over the lower ISO range and the higher ISO range.
This for the simple reason that although action shooters often (need to) shoot at higher ISO levels, the lower ISO levels offer the better IQ (resulting from less types of noise and better DR). 
2. An AF system with better lock on moving (!) subjects with less than perfect contrast. 
With this I mean lower light levels and/or lower subject contrast and/or darker colors. Especially brown(ish) subjects, even with quite some apparent contrast, seem difficult to keep in focus when moving. 
This will be related to the properties of the individual AF-points with OVF focussing and therefore one could expect that if this could be achieved, such performace would be seen in the 1D first. 
But comparing series of photos taken at almost the same time with the 80D, the 7D Mark II and also the Nikon D7200 seem to indicate that "tracking accuracy" for lower light levels and/or lower subject contrast and/or darker colors can be improved on the Canons.
P.S. I am not sure whether this is due to better 'performance' of individual AF-points, better 'tracking" general algorithms or better performance for tracking "colors".
3. Not many more Mpixels in the 7D Mark III. 
IMHO even 24Mpixel is too much. Not many people have f/2.8 lenses so they hardly benefit from more Mpixels due to diffraction.
4. Higher peak fps not really necessary. But if it is done, then pleas allow for more intermediate values in the Menu for the "high fps" setting.
5. An LCD screen with a bit higher resolution would be welcome, and 1-touch to go to 1:1 crop. The implementation of the screen itself could be like on the 80D, although I would slightly prefer the larger size of a fixed LCD screen.


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## Andries (Aug 21, 2017)

What I would *LIKE* to see :
- 24Mp sensor,
- improved high ISO performance,
- improved dynamic range,
- improved AF (all F8),
- focus point spread across the entire viewfinder,
- 100% viewfinder coverage,
- 15 fps,
- Endless RAW buffer,
- Endless JPEG buffer,
- SD UHS-II dual card slot,
- Articulating screen,
- Shutter rated at 300k+,
- same LP-E6(N) battery as 80D / 6D2,
- price tag at or below €1500 at launch (body only).


What I actually *EXPECT* to see :
- 24Mp sensor
- Slightly improved high ISO performance,
- Slightly improved dynamic range,
- improved AF, most to F8,
- Focus points spread similarly to 7D2,
- 100% viewfinder coverage,
- 12 fps,
- RAW buffer of 100,
- Endless JPEG buffer,
- SD UHS-II card slot and CF card slot
- Articulating touchscreen,
- WiFi and GPS,
- shutter rated at 200k or 250k,
- LP-E6N battery
- price tag of €1700 - €1900 at launch (body only).


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## Mikehit (Aug 21, 2017)

> focus point spread across the entire viewfinder,



Won't happen. The AF system is limited by vignetting of the lenses which is why the AF area on FF is not that much bigger than on APS-C.
What would be possible is two AF spreads - one for OVF (as is) and one for Liveview (full screen).




> Endless RAW buffer,


With modern cards and processors the buffer is a sideshow. It is not how big the buffer is but how quickly images are moved to the buffer to make room for more photos. I have tried my 7D2 with a new fast card and get over 50 images before it slows down - how often do you shoot more than 5 seconds on a burst?



> Endless JPEG buffer,


It already is with the speed of the card (see above)

The rest of the 'like to see' seem pretty reasonable


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## greger (Aug 22, 2017)

Most of Andries " What I expect to see list is possible. If Canon meets or exceeds this I would try to be first in line to buy! If Canon drops the ball again I will still have my trusty 7D to use. It has just over 5k on the counter and the files are large enough for me. I was going to trade it in to ease the pain of buying new. I would be better off putting it back in it's box and save it for emergencies.


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## tron (Aug 29, 2017)

Hector1970 said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Hector1970 said:
> ...


I have both too and I find 5DsR better in reasonably low ISO. In photos shot with 5DsR up to a point I can use just Camera Raw to denoise while in 7DII I most often need 2 products to denoise. This is my criteria for less noise: Easier workflow and less disk space (In case of 2 step denoise I keep both the original raw files and the derived ones).


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## gekko (Aug 29, 2017)

bhf3737 said:


> 2. Spot metering linked to AF points.



Already present on the 80D, so it would be very surprising if it was omitted on the 7D3.


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## zim (Aug 29, 2017)

gekko said:


> bhf3737 said:
> 
> 
> > 2. Spot metering linked to AF points.
> ...



Just the one in the middle, doesn't really count as 'linked'


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## gekko (Aug 29, 2017)

zim said:


> Just the one in the middle, doesn't really count as 'linked'



All AF points can be used for that if you set the correct metering mode, both according to the user manual and my testing. I use it all the time while photographing birds.


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## Sabaki (Aug 29, 2017)

a) Substantial improvement in AF system (perhaps a new system designed for APS-C bodies)
b) Larger battery to drive AF system
c) Dedicated processor to handle subject/colour recognition
d) New generation sensor

Thanks it, i'll be happy


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## cellomaster27 (Aug 29, 2017)

I'll keep it short.. Canon better not pull back anymore. Sheesh, I really like Canon overall but it's getting kind of ridiculous with the recent offerings. Still work great but compared to the competition, it's lack luster and still pricey for what it is.


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## MiamiC70 (Aug 30, 2017)

It better be cheaper


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## Talys (Aug 30, 2017)

1. The ability to snap in a 1TB, m.2 SSD  It would be so cool if you could have grip with additional SSD storage.

2. 32GB SDRAM buffer. Let's put the whole buffer thing to rest; the camera can buffer 1000x30MB RAWs.

3. Motion Detect Servo AI: Take a shot; wait until vibration reaches a threshold minimum, then take 3 more shots. Then take 2 shots every time the subject changes position, without moving relative to the scene. AF Track it and keep shooting at maximum FPS if the subject moves from its location until it leaves the frame.

4. Version with no AA filter

I'd spring $4,000 for a crop body for features like that!




Mikehit said:


> > focus point spread across the entire viewfinder,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I must misunderstand. How is this different from PDAF/DPAF the way it is now? In liveview, you can focus on whatever you want, even if it's in the far corner of the screen.


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## haggie (Aug 30, 2017)

gekko said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Just the one in the middle, doesn't really count as 'linked'
> ...



gekko, can you tell me where in the Manual this is described for random AF-points?


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## Mikehit (Aug 30, 2017)

cellomaster27 said:


> I'll keep it short.. Canon better not pull back anymore. Sheesh, I really like Canon overall but it's getting kind of ridiculous with the recent offerings. Still work great but compared to the competition, it's lack luster and still pricey for what it is.



Nikon and Sony add functions, Canon improve usability of what they have. I prefer Canon's approach.


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## gekko (Aug 31, 2017)

haggie said:


> gekko said:
> 
> 
> > zim said:
> ...



Have a look in the table at the bottom of page 203.


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## Imelai (Aug 31, 2017)

I Will like better sharpness and Sharper lens for aps c like sigma did with the 18 35 f1.8 . I dont want to pay big price for L when i only use 50 % of it


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## haggie (Aug 31, 2017)

gekko said:


> haggie said:
> 
> 
> > gekko said:
> ...



Thanks for your reply, gekko.

The page you refer to describes 'AE Lock'. I have seen that part when I read the Manual after buying the 80D, but discarded it as of no use for photography of airplanes or other (fast) moving subjects. AE Lock means the exposure is locked to whatever light levels are measures at the moment the "*"-button is pressed and after that does not adapt if light levels change due to changing light levels e.g. as a result of following a bird.

Photographing BIF as you wrote, is even more challenging than aircraft as a result of often faster changes in light levels of the background that changes.

So, can you explain how you use this in your photography?
I am very interested to find out how you achieve this. 

P.S. I do not want to 'hijack' this thread, but there is some relation with the 7D Mk III's features, so I hope it is okay to ask this follow-up question.


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## gekko (Sep 1, 2017)

Not much to it: use Evaluative Metering + AI Servo and shoot as you normally would. The camera will set the exposure based on the focus points in use. Keeping the shutter button half pressed and tracking your target keeps the exposure updated as the focus points change. No need to use AE Lock.


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## haggie (Sep 1, 2017)

gekko said:


> Not much to it: use Evaluative Metering + AI Servo and shoot as you normally would. The camera will set the exposure based on the focus points in use. Keeping the shutter button half pressed and tracking your target keeps the exposure updated as the focus points change. No need to use AE Lock.



Thanks again for your swift reply, gekko.
You wrote "_No need to use AE Lock_". I will surely try this.
I do not understand why the table at page 203 that apparently describes this is called "*AE Lock Effects*" and why it is in the paragraph called "*AE Lock*" instead of somewhere under the paragraphs of exposure and/or AF.


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## neonlight (Sep 1, 2017)

> Remove the low-pass filter. The 5DSR gives so much sharper images cropped to the same size. That and improved AF would be enough for me to upgrade.



+1 but I'd like a tilty flippy too. Possibly 24MP without the AA filter would be ideal.


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## jdavidse (Sep 1, 2017)

Here's a thought experiment about flip screens. How would a flip-out screen fit on the 7DIII, if implemented? I see the challenge not just in the weathersealing/durability as Canon have always claimed, but in the displacement of no less than 5 buttons on the left hand side. They could make the screen up/down tilt only, such as the Nikon D850. 

I think they would have to either rearrange the buttons to be more like the 6D (and killing the control continuity with the 5D line) Or they would need to create a VERY thin bezel on the flippy screen, and put the buttons above and below the hinge mechanism on the left. I also see space to move the trash button below the dial.


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## tr573 (Sep 1, 2017)

gekko said:


> Not much to it: use Evaluative Metering + AI Servo and shoot as you normally would. The camera will set the exposure based on the focus points in use. Keeping the shutter button half pressed and tracking your target keeps the exposure updated as the focus points change. No need to use AE Lock.



Biasing the multi zone meter to the active focus point, is not the same thing as spot metering off the active focus point. What you're describing instructs the multi zone metering algorithm (evaluative in Canon's case) to give extra weight to what you've told it is the subject. 

Spot metering means "give me a reading to make whatever is under this area my neutral gray tone"

Personally I don't get the fascination people have with that feature, but still, not the same.


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## tomscott (Sep 1, 2017)

jdavidse said:


> Here's a thought experiment about flip screens. How would a flip-out screen fit on the 7DIII, if implemented? I see the challenge not just in the weathersealing/durability as Canon have always claimed, but in the displacement of no less than 5 buttons on the left hand side. They could make the screen up/down tilt only, such as the Nikon D850.
> 
> I think they would have to either rearrange the buttons to be more like the 6D (and killing the control continuity with the 5D line) Or they would need to create a VERY thin bezel on the flippy screen, and put the buttons above and below the hinge mechanism on the left. I also see space to move the trash button below the dial.



The only buttons that I use on the left are the zoom, playback and trash button. Having a dedicated rate button, direct print button are just wasted imo, like they needed to fill them with something. Never used them ever, especially when sometimes you rate and bridge or lightroom doesn't pick the rate up. Sometimes just because they have been there for a long time doesnt mean they deserve to be there. They could also be modified to work differently per application so they do one thing in playback and another in shooting.

I wouldnt mind the zoom button being the set or the AF selection point button like it used to be in the older cameras. (while in playback)

I think a tiltable (like the 850) is feasable and sufficient. The camera is too heavy to be a selfy/vlogging camera and the target audience would never use it for this its more down low up high so a 180deg would be fine and a lot easier to implement.


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## unfocused (Sep 1, 2017)

tomscott said:


> The only buttons that I use on the left are the zoom, playback and trash button. Having a dedicated rate button, direct print button are just wasted imo...



This illustrates the problem with change. I never use the trash button, but I must have a rate button. When shooting sports I often go through the last sequence and quickly mark the images that are possible keepers. During halftime, timeouts or after the game I often scroll through marking shots. Since it's not hard to shoot several thousand frames during a sporting event, it's a huge time saver to have a few shots already selected. 

Frankly, while I can see the advantages of a flip screen and I don't believe for a second that durability has anything to do with Canon not putting them on the 7, 5 and 1 series -- just superstition on the part of photographers – I would forgo a tilt screen if it means rearranging the back of the body. 

I strongly suspect that Canon has surveyed photographers and found that most pros will say "don't mess with my buttons" as people who use their cameras daily are creatures of habit and don't take kindly to having the cheese moved around.


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## Talys (Sep 1, 2017)

An articulating screen would mess with left buttons


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## privatebydesign (Sep 1, 2017)

jdavidse said:


> Here's a thought experiment about flip screens. How would a flip-out screen fit on the 7DIII, if implemented? I see the challenge not just in the weathersealing/durability as Canon have always claimed, but in the displacement of no less than 5 buttons on the left hand side. They could make the screen up/down tilt only, such as the Nikon D850.
> 
> I think they would have to either rearrange the buttons to be more like the 6D (and killing the control continuity with the 5D line) Or they would need to create a VERY thin bezel on the flippy screen, and put the buttons above and below the hinge mechanism on the left. I also see space to move the trash button below the dial.



They could make the interface more like the 1 series.

The weatherproof tilt screen excuse is pathetic too, not you, from Canon. In 2014 Olympus made the Olympus Stylus Tough TG-850, it was a budget P&S with a genuinely waterproof, not 'weather resistant' tilt screen. If Olympus can do it in a $300 P&S I'm sure Canon could do it in a $2,000 DSLR.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 1, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I strongly suspect that Canon has surveyed photographers and found that most pros will say "don't mess with my buttons" as people who use their cameras daily are creatures of habit and don't take kindly to having the cheese moved around.



And yet they still do! Mind you, the healthy mouse is the one who goes looking for cheese when it has been moved 

Here is my last camera vs my current camera.


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## gekko (Sep 2, 2017)

tr573 said:


> gekko said:
> 
> 
> > Not much to it: use Evaluative Metering + AI Servo and shoot as you normally would. The camera will set the exposure based on the focus points in use. Keeping the shutter button half pressed and tracking your target keeps the exposure updated as the focus points change. No need to use AE Lock.
> ...



Could very well be that you are correct.
When testing on high contrast targets (light/dark) and single AF point, panning the focus point from f.ex dark to bright, the exposure does not change until the focus point hits the bright part. Keeping the focus point on the dark side, but close to the bright side, does not change the exposure, so if the exposure is weighted, it is within a very short range from the focus point. To me it seems like the exposure is taken from the focus point itself. It really doesn't matter what you call it, it behaves just like I want it to, giving me the exposure of the active focus point(s).


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## SecureGSM (Sep 2, 2017)

fair point. But if you come think of it:

there is only ONE correct exposure in the scene  the thing is, the camera measures reflected light from the not necessarily 18% grey surfaces (50% reflectance). Hence the reading your camera gives you is a bunch or semi accurate readings unless you spot meter over grey card and even still - not 100%. 
Canon evaluative metering is very good though in general and unless you are willing or have time for taking proper metering, what you are doing is perfectly acceptable in majority of run and gun situations.


gekko said:


> Could very well be that you are correct.
> When testing on high contrast targets (light/dark) and single AF point, panning the focus point from f.ex dark to bright,* the exposure does not change until the focus point hits the bright part.* ...
> 
> It really doesn't matter what you call it, it behaves just like I want it to, *giving me the exposure of the active focus point(s)*.


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## ronaldbyram (Sep 12, 2017)

For Me:
1. Larger buffer. I shoot Raw and hate to switch to Jpeg to keep up with action.
2. Improved GPS. Current GPS takes some time to lock in.
3. Removal of AA filter
4. Faster Memory Card support.
5. Tilt screen.
6. Touch Screen


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## Orangutan (Sep 12, 2017)

ronaldbyram said:


> For Me:
> 1. Larger buffer. I shoot Raw and hate to switch to Jpeg to keep up with action.
> 2. Improved GPS. Current GPS takes some time to lock in.
> *3. Removal of AA filter*
> ...



I totally don't get the anti-AA filter fetish -- I'd much rather have microscopic softness than moiré. Unacceptable softness is much more likely to be caused by poor AF or DoF than the AA filter. For landscape I can almost see removing the AA filter because AF and DoF error can usually be removed by proper technique; even there, though, unless you're printing YUGE you're not going to notice slight softness on 20+ MP images. And, BTW, the 7D-series is marketed more for action than landscape

As an aside, I'd love to see side-by-side shots of 5DS and 5DSr of the same scene for comparison.


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## unfocused (Sep 12, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> I totally don't get the anti-AA filter fetish -- I'd much rather have microscopic softness than moiré. Unacceptable softness is much more likely to be caused by poor AF or DoF than the AA filter. For landscape I can almost see removing the AA filter because AF and DoF error can usually be removed by proper technique; even there, though, unless you're printing YUGE you're not going to notice slight softness on 20+ MP images. And, BTW, the 7D-series is marketed more for action than landscape
> 
> As an aside, I'd love to see side-by-side shots of 5DS and 5DSr of the same scene for comparison.



I'm with you. I strongly suspect the anti-AA filter fetish is one of those Internet forum infatuations that is driven by a desire to be cool and sophisticated. Somebody comes up with the idea and everybody jumps on it based on some assumptions that aren't necessarily reflected in real world use.


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## 9VIII (Sep 12, 2017)

It is interesting to see how the 7D2 does handle moire better than competing bodies, but apparently no-one cares and the vast majority of images do not have moire problems.

And then we have the principle that extremely high resolution sensors don't suffer from moire because it has enough resolution to out resolve the patterns that are a problem at lower resolution.
With the right fabric at the right distance there will always be moire at some point, but it would be true to say that a 40MP sensor will not suffer the same level of moire as a 20MP sensor with the same framing.


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## lalachill (Sep 12, 2017)

jdavidse said:


> Here's a thought experiment about flip screens. How would a flip-out screen fit on the 7DIII, if implemented? I see the challenge not just in the weathersealing/durability as Canon have always claimed, but in the displacement of no less than 5 buttons on the left hand side. They could make the screen up/down tilt only, such as the Nikon D850.
> 
> I think they would have to either rearrange the buttons to be more like the 6D (and killing the control continuity with the 5D line) Or they would need to create a VERY thin bezel on the flippy screen, and put the buttons above and below the hinge mechanism on the left. I also see space to move the trash button below the dial.



I think the can put the 5 buttons part of the interface that you will see in the tilt screen. The dimension will remain more or less the same. But users will not have the feel of the button anymore instead get used to the touch screen.


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## Don Haines (Sep 12, 2017)

lalachill said:


> jdavidse said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a thought experiment about flip screens. How would a flip-out screen fit on the 7DIII, if implemented? I see the challenge not just in the weathersealing/durability as Canon have always claimed, but in the displacement of no less than 5 buttons on the left hand side. They could make the screen up/down tilt only, such as the Nikon D850.
> ...



Keep in mind that there are two classes of buttons... you have the buttons and dials that you use when shooting, that you use by feel in "the excitement of the moment", and you don't want to do anything to obstruct those buttons....

You have the other class of buttons, the ones that you use when you are not shooting.... to review pictures, skip through menus, etc.... those buttons could easily be relocated or replaced with touch screen functionality.


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## zim (Sep 12, 2017)

gekko said:


> bhf3737 said:
> 
> 
> > 2. Spot metering linked to AF points.
> ...



Hi Grekko,

I have a very bad habit of forgetting about posts I've comented on and I forget to come back to them hence the late reply!

The original post (not by you) that I replyed to was specifically talking about Spot metering linked to AF points.
I don't think the 80D or 7D2 has that from the table (I don't have a either so happy to be corrected!)

What I didn't realise was that metering is linked in other modes though, really cool and as you say that functionality won't go back the way!

Regards


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## Talys (Sep 12, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> I totally don't get the anti-AA filter fetish -- I'd much rather have microscopic softness than moiré.



Yeah, I'm with you. Moiré will totally ruin a shot; softness you'll never see, won't. Plus, post-processing sharpening will completely eliminate the softness 99.999% of the time, and provide an acceptable result to most human beings 100% of the time; but if you get hit with moiré on something that matters, that you don't catch in the moment, you're screwed.

Plus, very few people really need 20+ megapixel files in the finished product. Once you reduce it, any softness will be gone, but you'll still be stuck with moiré.


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## RobbieHat (Sep 12, 2017)

Interesting that everyone seems locked in on the 24 mp. I hope for at least that and possible a little more (up to 30 mp). Reason being, with bird or wildlife photography I will take all the MPs and cropping/reach I can get. I use the 5DSR and appreciate the ability to crop images and still maintain resolution of feathers, eye detail, etc. 

It would be great to have the equivalent resolution (considering crop sensor) with all the additional reach, speed, focusing ability, etc. If I get that as well as better low light handling (better handling up to 4-5000 iso) and dynamic range (1-1.5 stops). 

Not sure if I will get all of that, but it would drastically improve all of the deficiencies I deal with in the 5DSR today and keep most of the benefits of the higher resolution.


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## dak723 (Sep 12, 2017)

Talys said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > I totally don't get the anti-AA filter fetish -- I'd much rather have microscopic softness than moiré.
> ...



Yes, but the gear-heads want a camera with the MOST MPs, the MOST fps, the MOST DR, the MOST sharpness. Otherwise they feel that the camera is crippled. Doesn't matter if too much sharpness is actually a negative in MOST photographs.


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## rfdesigner (Sep 12, 2017)

RGF said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > RGF said:
> ...



Not going to happen

Readout noise is sufficently low now that I'd challenge anyone to notice the difference between current state of the art and absolute perfection in that regard.

One way forward is to improve quantum efficiency.

Raw sensor QE with micro-lenses is around 70% peak at the moment, less in red and blue. Add in the bayer matrix and we're down to about 25%.

So you need to change the matrix to an on chip dichroric style prism microlens array (not yet invented), or go with three sensors and a BIG interference filter based beam spitter to efficently split the colours and you'd need back illumination to get the raw quantum efficiny of the sensors up to ~90% across the entire optical band.

Otherwise you're stuck at around 25% QE.

here's an excellent write up done in the era of the 5DII and 50D, things have improved a little since then: http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/50d/test.htm


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## rfdesigner (Sep 12, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I strongly suspect that Canon has surveyed photographers and found that most pros will say "don't mess with my buttons" as people who use their cameras daily are creatures of habit and don't take kindly to having the cheese moved around.



Can someone tell microsoft please!


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## Orangutan (Sep 13, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I strongly suspect that Canon has surveyed photographers and found that most pros will say "don't mess with my buttons" as people who use their cameras daily are creatures of habit and don't take kindly to having the cheese moved around.
> ...



Wouldn't do any good to tell them, they don't listen.


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## RGF (Sep 13, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > I totally don't get the anti-AA filter fetish -- I'd much rather have microscopic softness than moiré. Unacceptable softness is much more likely to be caused by poor AF or DoF than the AA filter. For landscape I can almost see removing the AA filter because AF and DoF error can usually be removed by proper technique; even there, though, unless you're printing YUGE you're not going to notice slight softness on 20+ MP images. And, BTW, the 7D-series is marketed more for action than landscape
> ...



For routine use, not ultra high MP, the AA filter does not hurt much, if at all, and can save problems.


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## Orangutan (Sep 13, 2017)

Spock said:


> I would like to see Vulcanized rubber used on the grip.



That would be logical.


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## zim (Sep 13, 2017)

vulcanize ;D


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## Click (Sep 13, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> Spock said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to see Vulcanized rubber used on the grip.
> ...




lol ;D


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## AdamBotond (Sep 13, 2017)

I would love to see quicker-than-usual- refreshing cycle.


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## ronaldbyram (Sep 14, 2017)

I wish there was a way to add a improved scratch proof screen. I would say the 7D3 needs a cover but if they get a FLippy then that is not the answer.


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## Talys (Sep 14, 2017)

ronaldbyram said:


> I wish there was a way to add a improved scratch proof screen. I would say the 7D3 needs a cover but if they get a FLippy then that is not the answer.



The stuff they use for high end smartphones now is pretty scratch resistant, and it's not like you have to worry about shatter -- if something is going to shatter your DSLR screen (like dropping it onto a hard surface), worse things will happen than screen shatter.


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## Adelino (Sep 14, 2017)

I would like to see my memory card in one.


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## gekko (Sep 14, 2017)

zim said:


> gekko said:
> 
> 
> > bhf3737 said:
> ...



See here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=33181.msg684569#msg684569
and here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=33181.msg684742#msg684742


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## RGF (Sep 22, 2017)

One thing I would like to see, is an improvement in the battery holder in the vertical grip. The old ones were great, the new one feels like cheap plastic.


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## Tugela (Sep 25, 2017)

Talys said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > I totally don't get the anti-AA filter fetish -- I'd much rather have microscopic softness than moiré.
> ...



If you have access to the RAW files you should be able to correct for that anyway through pre-debeyering softening. AA filters were only really necessary in the pre-RAW era, and having them in the camera now takes way options you might otherwise have.


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## AlanF (Sep 25, 2017)

Tugela said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



I have taken tens of thousands of shots with my 5DSR of birds and have had only a handful of them being spoiled by Moire (and not really spoiled, just a slight amount that is only noticeable on high enlargement that you do don't see in small prints). I have had similar Moire from my 5DIV. I have had great shots from my 7DII. The 5DSR crops are simply sharper.

As for: " Plus, post-processing sharpening will completely eliminate the softness 99.999% of the time, and provide an acceptable result to most human beings 100% of the time". Sharpening increases acutance, apparent sharpness; it doesn't restore details that are lost by softness, ie get back the lost resolution because of blurring by the AA-filter.


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