# Lightroom 5



## meadowfresh (Aug 8, 2013)

Hi guys I just picked up a new 6D and lightroom 5, was previously using 3 so got a lot to learn now as it seems to have changed a lot.

I am just after some advice on presets etc. I understand that what you see first after importing raws into lightroom etc is the jpeg preview. Does anyone have some good information for presets for when you first import the photos? Or does anyone know away for it to retain the jpeg preview settings? I have had a look around but have not been able to find any information on how do to this, perhaps I have been searching the wrong thing.

With lightroom 5 I am finding it is putting vignetting on the photos which I never noticed with 3, I am not sure if this is something to do with LR5 or the fact I have just gone to a fullframe from a crop sensor.

Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.


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## Jim Saunders (Aug 8, 2013)

The vignetting is almost certainly due to your going to a FF sensor and seeing it for the first time; Try the lens correction profile button, that should take care of most of it.

Jim


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## meadowfresh (Aug 8, 2013)

Jim Saunders said:


> The vignetting is almost certainly due to your going to a FF sensor and seeing it for the first time; Try the lens correction profile button, that should take care of most of it.
> 
> Jim



Ok cheers, I will give that a try shortly.


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## meadowfresh (Aug 8, 2013)

I found the lens correction profile button and it made a huge difference! Thank you for the help.

If anyone has some other good insightful wisdom for LR5 it would be great to hear them.


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## tombu (Aug 8, 2013)

Youtube has thousands of tutorial, why not take a look there?


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## bitm2007 (Aug 8, 2013)

Have you tried changing the Camera Calibration Profile in Lightroom 5's develop mode ?. It's normally set to Adobe Standard, but can be changed to Camera Standard, Landscape, Neutral, Portrait or Faithful. Results still won't be an exact match to the JPEG's produced by the 6D, but will be much closer than Adobe Standard.


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## cayenne (Aug 8, 2013)

Also, I'm learning LR5 too.

From come Creative Live classes I've seen..it appears that LR comes out of the box, with some "preset develop" settings it applies to RAW images coming in.

You can go into a couple of the setup areas, I think lens correction is one, but I'm trying to say there are 1-2 other places that you have to go in, and set it so that it doesn't apply things upon import.

But from what I've head, out of the box, LR does not bring your RAW stuff in unadulterated, it applies some changes...I guess to make them look "good" out of camera?

cayenne


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## bitm2007 (Aug 8, 2013)

Cayenne

LR Raw's are unaltered out of the box, it's the JPEG's that you are comparing them to that have been altered during in camera processing.


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## 2n10 (Aug 8, 2013)

bitm2007 said:


> Cayenne
> 
> LR Raw's are unaltered out of the box, it's the JPEG's that you are comparing them to that have been altered during in camera processing.



All RAW processing programs have default adjustments that are made to the RAW file in the preview of it. None change the RAW file that I know of except DPP when you use DLO.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 8, 2013)

meadowfresh said:


> Hi guys I just picked up a new 6D and lightroom 5, was previously using 3 so got a lot to learn now as it seems to have changed a lot.
> 
> I am just after some advice on presets etc. I understand that what you see first after importing raws into lightroom etc is the jpeg preview. Does anyone have some good information for presets for when you first import the photos? Or does anyone know away for it to retain the jpeg preview settings? I have had a look around but have not been able to find any information on how do to this, perhaps I have been searching the wrong thing.
> 
> ...


 
Lightroom is not something to learn by trial and error, watch the Adobe videos or take a course or buy a book. You will miss out on features that you did not even know to ask about.


In the import screen, you see jpeg thumbnails that have vignettes just to tell you they are not imported yet. After you actually import the images, at first you see the jpeg thumbnails, but they are not vignettes. You will also see Lightroom start rendering previews (according to your settings) in the catalog settings. You can change the settings, but I don't think you can stop it from rendering previews.


You can set lightroom to import images with your preferred settings either for all images, or by ISO, you can do it differently for different bodies.

I do it by ISO so I can apply different NR settings and other optimizations by ISO and by body. To do this, I take a typical image, and apply any NR, or other corrections that are generic (not crops or straightening or similar image specific edits). Then I click develop / default settings and update the import processing default. There are so many options and different ways to do it that you really need training or a good book.


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## pedro (Aug 8, 2013)

*Planning on purchasing lightroom sometime these coming months, I just like to ask some basic questions. *

I am glad about this thread as I am currently running an old CS2 on an equally old PC and I do not use CS2 for many things. Excpect of conversions to b/w via channel mixer, resizing photographs, to crop, to save them for web use, and to balance out the horizon... and some other tidbits. Yes, it is that little...No masks, no layers, nada. Thought I'd have time to learn it, but it wasn't to be.

So, how detailed does LR 5 handle these forementioned process steps? I am kind of oldschool. Trying to use my photographs as _ex maquina_ as possible. The mayor part of my processing is done in DPP. So I get to the conclusion, that LR could be THE perfect tool for me so far. Is that too much of daydreaming?

Thanks for any advice, Pedro.


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## cayenne (Aug 8, 2013)

2n10 said:


> bitm2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Cayenne
> ...



Yes..this.

I wasn't saying LR was changing the RAW file itself, but that it does have some settings right out of the box, that will be applied to the RAW when it shows it to you in the 'preview'.

I think there is by default some sharpening, etc done to it...even before you start changing or 'developing' the image.


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## Jim Saunders (Aug 9, 2013)

pedro said:


> *Planning on purchasing lightroom sometime these coming months, I just like to ask some basic questions. *
> 
> I am glad about this thread as I am currently running an old CS2 on an equally old PC and I do not use CS2 for many things. Excpect of conversions to b/w via channel mixer, resizing photographs, to crop, to save them for web use, and to balance out the horizon... and some other tidbits. Yes, it is that little...No masks, no layers, nada. Thought I'd have time to learn it, but it wasn't to be.
> 
> ...



I can't say for sure about converting to B&W specifically with channels but it has B&W tools; Everything else it does just fine. Have a look on youtube for its perspective correction tool, that alone is just about worth the price.

Jim


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## meadowfresh (Aug 9, 2013)

tombu said:


> Youtube has thousands of tutorial, why not take a look there?



Have looked and will look some more, however this is a forum after all. Always good to get some good tips and advice from people as you they might not all be covered in video tutorials etc.


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## bitm2007 (Aug 9, 2013)

You can try out Lightroom 5 free of charge (without any commitment) by either downloading the 30 day trial from the Adobe website or the Lighroom 5.2 release candidate (free until end of September) from the Adobe Lab website (www.labs.adobe.com).


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## Kernuak (Aug 9, 2013)

pedro said:


> *Planning on purchasing lightroom sometime these coming months, I just like to ask some basic questions. *
> 
> I am glad about this thread as I am currently running an old CS2 on an equally old PC and I do not use CS2 for many things. Excpect of conversions to b/w via channel mixer, resizing photographs, to crop, to save them for web use, and to balance out the horizon... and some other tidbits. Yes, it is that little...No masks, no layers, nada. Thought I'd have time to learn it, but it wasn't to be.
> 
> ...


I'm on LR4, but the principles are the same. Like you, I prefer to try to get it right in camera as much as is possible, to leave minimal processing. I do most things I need in LR and do simple curves adjustments most of the time in CS4. More recently, on certain images, I've been trying the curves settings within LR and that does work quite well for many images. The other thing I like about LR, is the keywording etc. The one thing that is a real pain in LR though, which with any luck they've improved in LR5, is the spot healing tool. It's fine for the removal of just a couple of dust spots, but any more than that and you're better off doing it in CS.
Also, something I forgot to mention, I prefer to do any B&W conversions in CS too.


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## DFM (Aug 9, 2013)

LR5 has brushable healing and cloning tools so you're no longer limited to a circular dot - but it will always be slower than Photoshop because the processing you apply in Lr is *not* changing the pixels in the original image. Adjustments are applied 'live' every time the photo is displayed. If you're removing a couple of scratches you won't notice, but cleaning up a mass of dust bunnies or a flock of birds and things _will_ slow down.

It's important for new customers to remember this - fundamentally Lr is a catalog system, not a photo editor. Users get confused that images have to be 'imported' before anything can happen and it won't just browse through folders like Photoshop or DPP, but that's the entire point - it doesn't edit the photo files on disc, it builds a database of what you want changed; then exports or prints a _copy_ when you're ready. If you process your photos in another application (DPP, Photoshop, etc) then Lr's database may still have value as a way to organize and search for your content, but if you prefer to keep things in a disc folder structure so they can be quickly-grabbed into other software it may not. To be frank, Lr prefers you to develop and touch up your raw files entirely within Lr, and only resort to a bounce through a 'conventional' editing program if absolutely necessary. To preserve the original file, Lr will make a copy on disc when it's sent for external editing, so you'll end up with two copies in the database (and two files on disc).

Think of it as Camera Raw with an SQLlite database bolted on the front that remembers what you did with the sliders, and resets them each time you view that photo. The advantage is that your original CR2/DNG files aren't at risk of corruption or overwriting, the payoff is that everything is 'virtual' until you export a copy. There's no "Save" menu in Lightroom!


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## lastcoyote (Aug 9, 2013)

anyone able to explain why LR5 installs seperately from LR4?
Have all the new versions of LR done this? I've only used LR4 and still am. Not moved to 5 yet.


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## wsheldon (Aug 9, 2013)

lastcoyote said:


> anyone able to explain why LR5 installs seperately from LR4?
> Have all the new versions of LR done this? I've only used LR4 and still am. Not moved to 5 yet.



I've been using LR since v1, and all major version upgrades (2,3,4,...) have installed separately, and copied and upgraded the catalog from the previous version. When upgrading the catalog, though, the "process version" is not changed so your adjustments and sliders stay put so and don't need to rework all your images unless you want to take advantage of the new controls.

The upside of this is that you can keep working with the old while getting used to the new, as long as you realize you're working with two independent catalogs when it comes to importing new images. You can then uninstall the old version and delete the catalog and previews when you're ready to move on.


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## lastcoyote (Aug 9, 2013)

wsheldon said:


> lastcoyote said:
> 
> 
> > anyone able to explain why LR5 installs seperately from LR4?
> ...



great, thanks for that info.
when you uninstall the old version (4.4 in my case) do you have to manually delete the old catalog and previews then or does it ask to do this when uninstalling?


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## cayenne (Aug 9, 2013)

DFM said:


> LR5 has brushable healing and cloning tools so you're no longer limited to a circular dot - but it will always be slower than Photoshop because the processing you apply in Lr is *not* changing the pixels in the original image. Adjustments are applied 'live' every time the photo is displayed. If you're removing a couple of scratches you won't notice, but cleaning up a mass of dust bunnies or a flock of birds and things _will_ slow down.
> 
> It's important for new customers to remember this - fundamentally Lr is a catalog system, not a photo editor. Users get confused that images have to be 'imported' before anything can happen and it won't just browse through folders like Photoshop or DPP, but that's the entire point - it doesn't edit the photo files on disc, it builds a database of what you want changed; then exports or prints a _copy_ when you're ready. If you process your photos in another application (DPP, Photoshop, etc) then Lr's database may still have value as a way to organize and search for your content, but if you prefer to keep things in a disc folder structure so they can be quickly-grabbed into other software it may not. To be frank, Lr prefers you to develop and touch up your raw files entirely within Lr, and only resort to a bounce through a 'conventional' editing program if absolutely necessary. To preserve the original file, Lr will make a copy on disc when it's sent for external editing, so you'll end up with two copies in the database (and two files on disc).
> 
> Think of it as Camera Raw with an SQLlite database bolted on the front that remembers what you did with the sliders, and resets them each time you view that photo. The advantage is that your original CR2/DNG files aren't at risk of corruption or overwriting, the payoff is that everything is 'virtual' until you export a copy. There's no "Save" menu in Lightroom!



Well, all being said...if you're doing things "non-destructively" in Photoshop, you're working with your RAW images as smart objects, and aren't making any changes directly to them there either. It eats up a bit more space and RAM/CPU, but you really should likely for most things be working with smart objects and layers...so that you can come back and redo something if needed later....so, in that case, it would be like you described working with LR.

My $0.02,

cayenne


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 9, 2013)

meadowfresh said:


> tombu said:
> 
> 
> > Youtube has thousands of tutorial, why not take a look there?
> ...


There are people on this forum who use LR in many different ways, and I frequently see advice that I feel is not the best practice. There is also lots of accurate advice. The problem for a new user is to determine which is which. That's where viewing training videos on the Adobe site or on a expert users site is useful. Utube is neat, but not everything is done by someone who knows the best practice.


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## Jim Saunders (Aug 10, 2013)

lastcoyote said:


> great, thanks for that info.
> when you uninstall the old version (4.4 in my case) do you have to manually delete the old catalog and previews then or does it ask to do this when uninstalling?



Why delete your old catalog when you can open it in LR5 and not lose all the work you've done? You might get prompted about updating process versions but that is easy enough to cope with if you feel the need to rework existing images.

Jim


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## CTJohn (Aug 10, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> meadowfresh said:
> 
> 
> > tombu said:
> ...


I learned Lightroom in Chris Orwig's training session on Lynda.com. Not free, but they have monthly subscriptions, and the Lightroom course is excellent (as well as those on Photoshop.)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 10, 2013)

CTJohn said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > meadowfresh said:
> ...


 
I'm sure that's one of the good ones.
There are lots of good training programs, some are even free, but there are also lots that leave something to be desired (I'm trying to be diplomatic here rather than saying they stink)


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## IslanderMV (Aug 10, 2013)

CTJohn
_I learned Lightroom in Chris Orwig's training session on Lynda.com. Not free, but they have monthly subscriptions, and the Lightroom course is excellent (as well as those on Photoshop._)

Totally agree - a well done tutorial series with downloadable materials to match the instruction.


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## cayenne (Aug 10, 2013)

Also, take a look at http://www.creativelive.com, they have some wonderful classes on there, and I think they are doing a major look at all CC offerings from Adobe.

Either 1-2 weeks off, go check out their calendar.....classes are free to watch live and on the rebroadcasts the evening and usually most of next day.

I'm sure they're having some Lightroom classes then too.?

HTH,

cayenne


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## DFM (Aug 10, 2013)

'A bit' is somewhat of an understatement ;D

The typical SQL records for a Lr development are less than 100kb. A PSD file based on a DSLR raw image can be 100mb+. Smart objects are _not_ references to the original file on disc, they're copies embedded into the PSD file so they're vulnerable to corruption every time the PSD is re-saved. If you work in Lr and need total security against loss of your developed images you only have to keep one 'permanent' backup of the raw file, then routine mirrors of the LRCAT database (which is small enough to backup online). I do commercial stuff that can never be repeated, so I'm paranoid about backups:

[list type=decimal]
[*]CR2s from the cards go as-is to an external drive (using TeraCopy), then they're imported from the cards to my workstation in Lr as DNGs, only when everything's verified will the cards be reused.
[*]The external drives go off-site. I've only needed to pull copies once, when an SSD in the workstation threw a hissy fit - but if the office is eaten by Godzilla I can be up and running in an hour.
[*]The LRCAT databases are synced to the cloud every evening (using a batch script). Lr makes local backups automatically.
[/list]

To highlight the fact that you're never touching the originals, in Lr5 you can work on developments even if they're not available - it'll take whatever you do to the Smart Previews and re-apply it to the original images when you mount the DNG/CR2 files again. When I'm shooting for a previous client I'll take their LRCAT (and the folder of Smart Previews) in case we need to browse the old stuff for reference - a catalog with 10,000+ images will fit on a USB stick. Also means I can play about with any of my photos in the airport lounge (anything to distract me from the free jelly beans  ).

Of course there are thousands of things you can do in Photoshop that you can't do in Lr, but I'd never suggest using Ps as a default tool for developing raw files unless you have terabytes of storage laying about. Using ACR _outside of Ps_ is another option (e.g. via Bridge) as it'll write an XMP sidecar file instead of a database record, but managing all those sidecars is a real pain and you don't get to use all of the presets and plugins from Lr.




cayenne said:


> Well, all being said...if you're doing things "non-destructively" in Photoshop, you're working with your RAW images as smart objects, and aren't making any changes directly to them there either. It eats up a bit more space ...


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## wsheldon (Aug 10, 2013)

Jim Saunders said:


> lastcoyote said:
> 
> 
> > great, thanks for that info.
> ...



You're right that you don't want to delete your old catalog before you upgrade it, but the conversion creates a complete copy of the old catalog and indexed directory for previews (.lrdata) during the upgrade, so you will just be wasting disk space if you keep around the old version after you've converted and have a new LR 5 catalog. 

If you're paranoid about losing anything in case you need to go back for any reason, just delete the xxx Previews.lrdata directory and keep the old .lrcat file, since the xxx Previews.lrdata is bulky and will be regenerated automatically. The .lrcat file is the important one (the metadata database containing all your adjustments and keywording), and that isn't generally very large.


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## lastcoyote (Aug 10, 2013)

Jim Saunders said:


> lastcoyote said:
> 
> 
> > great, thanks for that info.
> ...



i'm talking about deleting your old LR4 catalog only once LR5 upgrades your old catalog in to its own new one. so you'll lose no work. at which point you can then get rid of LR4 and work solely in LR5. if that be your desire.


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## TonyMM (Aug 10, 2013)

My experience is that I was using PhotoShop Elements and PS CS4 sort of randomly interchangeably and was finding the whole experience mystifying - hit and miss on learning, remembering and I realized later, not learning an efficient workflow. Then I stumbled on LR4 and it was like a window opening to a clear room outside. I immediately found the workflow natural and with a few internet tutorials was well on my way to a structured post processing world. I now do probably 95% of my post processing in LR5 - when I need layers, I was going back to PSE, but discovered OnOne Software's Perfect Photo Suite and am now not even using PSE or PS. I also use Photomatix for HDR and Helicon Focus for macro 100% in focus processing, but I'm solidly in the LR5/PPS Suite for 95+% of work. 

One of the best training sets I found really helpful was the two sets of videos on LR by George Jardine - cost was $25 for each of two sets -- worthwhile, will save lots of fumbling around on the net by yourself time. (mulita.com/blog/). OnOne Software has lots of tutorial videos free that are very useful.

Tony M


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## vlim (Aug 14, 2013)

Hi guys,

can we utilize LR 5 with Windows Vista 64 Bits ? 

thanks


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## Krob78 (Aug 14, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> CTJohn said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...


I think you're saying some of them are stinky...  lol


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 14, 2013)

vlim said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> can we utilize LR 5 with Windows Vista 64 Bits ?
> 
> thanks


 
I'd download it and try it. You get a free trial, and can see how it works for you. You will need lots of memory, 12GB and more is best, but it will run on 8Gb.

I also get better results by placing the catalog on a SSD. My catalog is very large, so drive speed makes a difference.


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## vlim (Aug 14, 2013)

Ok thanks. i'm gonna try it...


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## DFM (Aug 14, 2013)

No. It's Windows 7/SP1 or Windows 8 (or OS X 10.7+) *only*.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom/tech-specs.html




vlim said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> can we utilize LR 5 with Windows Vista 64 Bits ?
> 
> thanks


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## cayenne (Aug 14, 2013)

DFM said:


> 'A bit' is somewhat of an understatement ;D
> 
> The typical SQL records for a Lr development are less than 100kb. A PSD file based on a DSLR raw image can be 100mb+. Smart objects are _not_ references to the original file on disc, they're copies embedded into the PSD file so they're vulnerable to corruption every time the PSD is re-saved. If you work in Lr and need total security against loss of your developed images you only have to keep one 'permanent' backup of the raw file, then routine mirrors of the LRCAT database (which is small enough to backup online). I do commercial stuff that can never be repeated, so I'm paranoid about backups:
> 
> ...



Hmm.

I wasn't implying that you work most of your RAW stuff in PS instead of LR. I just was saying that if you use PS, you would likely want to work non-destructively and use smart objects in PS.

I mean, these days....HD space is getting dirt cheap, and if you do have a PS project that had lots of layers, etc...I'd want to keep my options open for later changes, especially if working for a client that might want this or that changed, etc.

However, IMHO..the best workflow that I'm trying to do..is start in LR. Likely 98% of my images can be done there, if I'm careful enough to get as much correct in camera.

However, when something needs a lot of work...either to salvage or just for very creative stuff...then I'll do those images in PS...and likely as a smart object that comes from LR after I've done initial "development" there.

But no, was wasn't being a proponent for doing your primary RAW import and changes in PS.

C


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## vlim (Aug 16, 2013)

I tried to install it with Wondows Vista 64 bits but it's impossible... too bad


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## cayenne (Aug 16, 2013)

vlim said:


> I tried to install it with Wondows Vista 64 bits but it's impossible... too bad



My recommendation?

UPGRADE to Win7 (avoid Win8 unless you like a tablet interface on your desktop or non-touch laptop).

It works fine on Win7 64 bit.


HTH,

cayenne


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## dstppy (Aug 16, 2013)

cayenne said:


> vlim said:
> 
> 
> > I tried to install it with Wondows Vista 64 bits but it's impossible... too bad
> ...



+1 -- if your box has the juice to run Win7pro 64-bit, go for it. I'm trapped on Windows at work, but the i7s make it more bearable


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