# House being gassed for termites -- any impact to cameras, lenses, etc.?



## ahsanford (Jul 18, 2016)

My house needs to be fumigated for termites. I'm told the fumigation doesn't meddle with general consumer electronics, but in ignorance of the specifics, I obviously worry about the photography gear.

Can anyone speak to what the fumigation process might do to my gear? Will simple poly bagging solve the problem? Should I just rent a few Pelicans and seal everything up, or do I need to actually to migrate all my gear to our temporary housing for the duration?

Also, I have a storage cabinet that is far too large/heavy to temporarily relocate. If the gas is indeed a threat to my gear, I'd hate to have the various foam elements in that case (TrekPak + yoga mat) outgas some nastiness back into my gear after we return. Should I just bag the entire cabinet?

Thanks,
A


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## takesome1 (Jul 18, 2016)

I would think if you were one of those gear heads whose camera equipment has the same value as a base model Corvette, or less just a new camaro, you would know the answer and wouldn't have to ask this question.

Of course you bag it up and take it with you. I wouldn't care what it did to the electronics. What kind of icky film will it leave on my optics?

Of course if all you have is a 6D and a kit lens the answer is even more obvious. Why would you leave your camera at home? Are you a photographer?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2016)

To paraphrase Clemenza...Leave the cabinet, take the gear. Good luck!


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## ahsanford (Jul 18, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> I would think if you were one of those gear heads whose camera equipment has the same value as a base model Corvette, or less just a new camaro, you would know the answer and wouldn't have to ask this question.
> 
> Of course you bag it up and take it with you. I wouldn't care what it did to the electronics. What kind of icky film will it leave on my optics?
> 
> Of course if all you have is a 6D and a kit lens the answer is even more obvious. Why would you leave your camera at home? Are you a photographer?



Because (I suppose) it's possible a chemist might chime in on this thread and state is has zero impact/interaction with my gear. I doubt it and I'll likely need to plan to get it bagged/relocated, but I'd just like to bank that first major fork in the road before getting all wound up about it.

Also, I would imagine the impact analysis of this would indict not only my photography cabinet but every single camera bag I own. Before I plan to relocate so much stuff, I just want to make sure I need to.

- A


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 18, 2016)

Chemicals react differently to different materials. Do you believe that the pest control company tested the impact of that in glass elements, lubricants, rubbers, and different metal alloys that are its equipment?

Just to say that I made a pest control in an environment with a Panasonic video camera inside a case, and months later there was corrosion in the flat cable contacts 50 routes, on the main board.


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## rfdesigner (Jul 18, 2016)

Not on your kit.

I was fairly competant at chemistry at school, but that was a long time ago.

Fumigating will be primarily a biological effect, rather than chemical. I would not anticipate any issues with etching etc. but I'd still bag & remove as there will have been zero testing vs optics. Crucially I personally wouldn't want to be in the building until it's completely clear, but then I'm asthmatic, the fumigator people will be in and out with masks on, you'll have to live with it... I'd go more than overboard on clearing the air multiple times.


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## dcm (Jul 18, 2016)

It all depends on what they use. Some fumigants like Vikane (http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_08f2/0901b803808f2c93.pdf) will freely pass through your plastic bags and require a special bag like Nylofume. They should be able to tell you what they are going to use and you can look up the MSDS sheets yourself to be sure. Better safe than sorry is my motto.

I keep some things (negatives, storage media, etc.) in a large waterproof fire safe with desiccant that I wouldn't bother to move. I might put extra layers of tape on the door seams to provide an extra layer of seal. 

Beyond that I use sealed Nanuk/Pelican cases and plastic storage tubs that I would move offsite. I'd even consider moving other sensitive electronic equipment (desktops/laptops/tablets/displays) off site. 

Of course, you do want to leave anything wooden behind so you don't reintroduce the pest after fumigation.


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## ahsanford (Jul 18, 2016)

dcm said:


> It all depends on what they use. Some fumigants like Vikane (http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_08f2/0901b803808f2c93.pdf) will freely pass through your plastic bags and require a special bag like Nylofume. They should be able to tell you what they are going to use and you can look up the MSDS sheets yourself to be sure. Better safe than sorry is my motto.
> 
> I keep some things (negatives, storage media, etc.) in a large waterproof fire safe with desiccant that I wouldn't bother to move. I might put extra layers of tape on the door seams to provide an extra layer of seal.
> 
> ...



Vikane is the chemical, according to the fumigators. Not surprised it can bypass some polymer barriers.

I'll have to read up, thanks.

- A


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## RGF (Jul 18, 2016)

From my old understanding of Chemical reactions, mostly no impact. You don't see impact on glass in the house (mirrors, windows, ...)

Other things that are lubricated would probably be okay.

But in the end, why risk it. Even in a sealed bag around your equipment (or double bagged). there may be residual amounts of poison inside the lenses, ... so best to be extra safe. What is the down side? A little extra bother. What is the upside? Not damaging your equipment, getting sick, ...


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## ahsanford (Jul 18, 2016)

RGF said:


> From my old understanding of Chemical reactions, mostly no impact. You don't see impact on glass in the house (mirrors, windows, ...)
> 
> Other things that are lubricated would probably be okay.
> 
> But in the end, why risk it. Even in a sealed bag around your equipment (or double bagged). there may be residual amounts of poison inside the lenses, ... so best to be extra safe. What is the down side? A little extra bother. What is the upside? Not damaging your equipment, getting sick, ...



You are exactly where I am on this -- it's concerning enough to migrate the gear out for the duration. 

But what about the items that store the gear? How far do I take this exercise of caution?

- A


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## takesome1 (Jul 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Because (I suppose) it's possible a chemist might chime in on this thread and state is has zero impact/interaction with my gear.



Even if it doesn't have a reaction, which it likely will not, do you want take the chance of residual on your gear.

According to Orkin's website you wouldn't even have the residual. They go as far as to say you don't even have to wash your dishes afterwards. 

http://www.termites.com/control/fumigation-tenting/termite-fumigation-risks/

Personally I wouldn't take the chance I would bag it up and take it with me. I would wash my dishes to.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 18, 2016)

I fumigated my studio this spring, I had a bad infestation of ants. It Killed the ants, but not my camera equipment. I have far too much to tote it all out. Bugs were dropping for several days after, so I just kept out of the studio except for brief minutes.


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## RGF (Jul 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > From my old understanding of Chemical reactions, mostly no impact. You don't see impact on glass in the house (mirrors, windows, ...)
> ...



Wash dishes, clothes, ... anything that you. Get the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) from the fumigator. Will tell you the risks, ... Extra steps will reduce the risk, perhaps from 0.01% to 0.0001%. In the end you need to be able to sleep at night ...


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## 3kramd5 (Jul 18, 2016)

Note that tented buildings are often at a higher risk for burglary (since no one is in there). I'd take any easy to carry valuables which aren't well-secured.


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## ahsanford (Jul 18, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> Note that tented buildings are often at a higher risk for burglary (since no one is in there). I'd take any easy to carry valuables which aren't well-secured.



Everything's insured, but I appreciate the sentiment. Besides, the stuff that would devastate me if it was taken is of sentimental value only.

....that and the backup hard drive of all my photography, which is ingeniously tucked away. Zero chance of that being stolen. 

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Jul 18, 2016)

Sweet, can I get your address?


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## TeT (Jul 19, 2016)

If you are asking, you know the answer....

Ingenious, really... there is a list out there of where the crooks look for stuff in a house. All those spots are ingenious too...


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## Valvebounce (Jul 19, 2016)

Hi TeT. 
Do you have a link or search term to find the list, wouldn't want to hide stuff where they look straight away. 
As for the op's question, I would take as much as I could with me, I might want to take photos while I'm locked out, I can understand the risk / effort equation though, having lots of gear that you don't want contaminated would be a hard choice. 
If the stuff can permeate ordinary poly bags I would imagine it would permeate past seals on lenses too? 

Cheers, Graham. 



TeT said:


> If you are asking, you know the answer....
> 
> Ingenious, really... there is a list out there of where the crooks look for stuff in a house. All those spots are ingenious too...


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## 3kramd5 (Jul 19, 2016)

TeT said:


> If you are asking, you know the answer....
> 
> Ingenious, really... there is a list out there of where the crooks look for stuff in a house. All those spots are ingenious too...



I know where they'd like to look at my place: in my safe, which is made by Cannon, and would contain a number of items made by Canon.


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## TeT (Jul 19, 2016)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi TeT.
> Do you have a link or search term to find the list,
> Cheers, Graham.



I saw a list years ago where 20 places or so were all listed by a professional burglar (one of the news magazine shows 20/20 or similar)... I just did a quick search and turns out the #1 place to hide stuff is your sock drawer... coat pockets and hand bags are a bad idea as well... 

Anyways, there isn't one list that I could find, a lot of it is repetitive and it seems that everyone has blogged the subject over the last few years...


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## Valvebounce (Jul 19, 2016)

Hi TeT. 
Yes I had a Google, more top ten worst places lists than you can shake a stick at, some dreadful looking fake things to hidden things in too. 

Cheers, Graham.


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## Al Chemist (Jul 19, 2016)

My user name is a play on words, but I have a doctorate in Organic Chemistry. Without going into the risks of any particular compound, if it kills something, there is a danger to you although you are much larger than the target and thus will tolerate a larger exposure.
That said, if you smell something in the air, there are molecules of that molecular compound floating around. They will settle out on every available surface, which of course means all your dishes (wash carefully), tv screens and of course camera equipment. Will they penetrate tape and plastic coverings...somewhat unlikely unless they are sprayed directly on the surface.

I find that most non-chemists and even some chemists are pretty careless in using pesticides, etc. I cringe when I see folks spraying these things all over without regard to what they are doing. In the long run, you can never be too careful.
I hope this helps.


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## mnclayshooter (Jul 19, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> My house needs to be fumigated for termites. I'm told the fumigation doesn't meddle with general consumer electronics, but in ignorance of the specifics, I obviously worry about the photography gear.
> 
> Can anyone speak to what the fumigation process might do to my gear? Will simple poly bagging solve the problem? Should I just rent a few Pelicans and seal everything up, or do I need to actually to migrate all my gear to our temporary housing for the duration?
> 
> ...



We had an older house sprayed/treated for ants. It left a small white dust on some surfaces that dissipated over time (a day or two). It wasn't the same as fogging systems that get used for other treatments, but the principle I'm trying to explain is that the condensate from any particulate fog/spray in the air will settle on surfaces by gravity and electrostatic attraction. 

I would remove anything of significant optical value, just to be safe. 

Then, I would tape off the joints in the cabinet with a good quality removable tape, for all of the reasons you described but also to prevent any accumulation of fine particulates. I wouldn't worry so much about the vapor transmission (you're getting vapor transmission all the time through your equipment) in the cabinet, but the residue/condensate(s) left behind. The metal cabinet is a pretty stout vapor barrier, the tape may allow vapor transmission over time but honestly, I'd bet that the length of time the fog will be applied vs the transmission rate of the tape/barrier will stop almost all, if not all of it from getting through. Poly would do the same, for that matter... if you're concerned, double wrap it. 

This is one of those "better safe than sorry" types of situations, if it were my gear. 

To equate it to a different type of discussion regarding gear... do you put a $10k lens in a $10 backpack? You protect the gear in the way appropriate for it's value. If it's valuable enough, why trust a bug spray "expert's" opinion on whether or not it will affect **your** precision optics? 


The plus side of leaving it behind... no spiders, ants, mealy bugs, or termites will want to live in your mirror box or inside a lens.


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## j-nord (Jul 19, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ....that and the backup hard drive of all my photography, which is ingeniously tucked away. Zero chance of that being stolen.
> 
> - A


I hope it's off site like a safety deposit box... otherwise it's kind of a pointless back up.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2016)

j-nord said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ....that and the backup hard drive of all my photography, which is ingeniously tucked away. Zero chance of that being stolen.
> ...



+1

The main risk is fire/flood/etc., and having your backup hard drive 'ingeniously tucked away' in your house – the same place where the computer being backed up is often/always located – makes the backup pretty useless. Either go with a cloud solution, or store a backup offsite, or both. 

Personally, I keep a set of backup HDDs at home and a second set at work, with a 'set' comprising an HDD for just RAW images and another HDD for clones of the SSDs in the family's computers (currently 3). With 5 copies of the RAWs and 6 copies of the JPGs, I'm pretty well covered for disaster or drive failure. As a side note, the standalone backup of the RAW images is to allow flexibility if I need to free up space on my laptop SDD. I came close to that a couple of years ago, but I obviated the need by swapping a 1 TB SSD for the 500 GB HDD in my 17" MacBook Pro.


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## RGF (Jul 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Hi NA

You have even more backups than I do. I have original copy and 2 copies in the house and 1 in bank (I no longer work) and a cloud copy from back blaze (10+TB there).


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## ahsanford (Jul 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> +1
> 
> The main risk is fire/flood/etc., and having your backup hard drive 'ingeniously tucked away' in your house – the same place where the computer being backed up is often/always located – makes the backup pretty useless. Either go with a cloud solution, or store a backup offsite, or both.
> 
> Personally, I keep a set of backup HDDs at home and a second set at work, with a 'set' comprising an HDD for just RAW images and another HDD for clones of the SSDs in the family's computers (currently 3). With 5 copies of the RAWs and 6 copies of the JPGs, I'm pretty well covered for disaster or drive failure. As a side note, the standalone backup of the RAW images is to allow flexibility if I need to free up space on my laptop SDD. I came close to that a couple of years ago, but I obviated the need by swapping a 1 TB SSD for the 500 GB HDD in my 17" MacBook Pro.



I'm talking about the in-house backup. Quarterly or so I retrieve an external HDD I have at a bank safety deposit box and back up again. It's a major pain in the butt, but it addresses the 'calamitous house event' problem.

- A


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## AJ (Jul 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



All those backup drives will be zapped in one go in case of an electromagnetic pulse attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
To be safe, keep one backup drive in a Faraday cage, e.g. a an old (disabled) microwave oven, plugged in so it's grounded.


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## dhachey77 (Jul 19, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> My house needs to be fumigated for termites. I'm told the fumigation doesn't meddle with general consumer electronics, but in ignorance of the specifics, I obviously worry about the photography gear.
> 
> Can anyone speak to what the fumigation process might do to my gear? Will simple poly bagging solve the problem? Should I just rent a few Pelicans and seal everything up, or do I need to actually to migrate all my gear to our temporary housing for the duration?
> 
> ...



OK, be careful. The most common fumigant is sulfuryl fluoride, which is toxic, as you might expect, and people have died by moving back in too quickly to an improperly ventilated house. SO2F2 is relatively stable chemically, but it will slowly hydrolyze to liberate sulfuric acid and hydrogen fluoride. HF will attack optical surfaces, so remove any camera gear from the house just to be safe. My recommendation, find a trusted friend or family member to store the gear for a couple of weeks.


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## niels123 (Jul 19, 2016)

Being a Chemist, I would bet that the gas doesn't do any harm. However, the uncertainty is just too big. Take all your gear out of the house and spend your time using it


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## GmwDarkroom (Jul 19, 2016)

AJ said:


> All those backup drives will be zapped in one go in case of an electromagnetic pulse attack
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
> To be safe, keep one backup drive in a Faraday cage, e.g. a an old (disabled) microwave oven, plugged in so it's grounded.


Grounding isn't necessary for an effective Faraday cage and is sometimes undesirable. Any fully enclosed metal box will do the trick (better than a microwave in most cases).


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2016)

AJ said:


> All those backup drives will be zapped in one go in case of an electromagnetic pulse attack
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
> To be safe, keep one backup drive in a Faraday cage, e.g. a an old (disabled) microwave oven, plugged in so it's grounded.



Naah, the data on the HDD platters would still be there even if the HDD's ability to access it was 'zapped'. Besides, scenarios in which an EMP wrecks external storage devices in two separate locations in the Boston metropolitan area generally also include outcomes that would preclude me from knowing or caring about the fate of my digital images...permanently.


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## kaihp (Jul 19, 2016)

dhachey77 said:


> HF will attack optical surfaces, so remove any camera gear from the house just to be safe.



HF and plasma are about the only things that will etch glass (SiO2). HF will etch just about anything, though.
Fortunately it's not as bad as the epicly named chemical FOOF (google it).


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## ahsanford (Jul 19, 2016)

kaihp said:


> dhachey77 said:
> 
> 
> > HF will attack optical surfaces, so remove any camera gear from the house just to be safe.
> ...



Oh right, my seven million pound plasma screen. Forgot about that.

#headache 

- A


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## takesome1 (Jul 19, 2016)

So what reaction would sulfuryl fluoride have with:
Aluminum oxide
Magnesium fluoride
or
Silicon monoxide

Just let the lenses get fumigated, but first do flare tests on your lenses so you can test afterwards to see if there is any change.


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## Mikehit (Jul 19, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Fortunately it's not as bad as the epicly named chemical FOOF (google it).


I did - and I presume you are not talking about the first one that came up on my screen....curse that Urban Dictionary.


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## kaihp (Jul 19, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > Fortunately it's not as bad as the epicly named chemical FOOF (google it).
> ...



Uh, nope not that kind of foof.

This kind of FOOF: Flourine-Oxygen-Oxygen-Flourine.

Chlorine triflouride, of course, ranks right up there (hint: it is a stronger oxidizing agent than oxygen itself).


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## RGF (Jul 20, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AJ said:
> 
> 
> > All those backup drives will be zapped in one go in case of an electromagnetic pulse attack
> ...



Major lightning storms can do real damage, but I keep my backups off the power grid. Yes if there was a major EMPS event, my images would the least of my concerns. That is, if I were still alive


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## takesome1 (Jul 20, 2016)

RGF said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AJ said:
> ...



If you were really prepared and wanted to protect your photography you would keep all of your pictures on archival quality prints, stored in your prep bunker somewhere in northern Nevada close to the Oregon and California borders. Since there will likely be no "grid", and generators will run out of fuel, digital will do you no good.

Another option, even for digital if you want to take the chance there will be electricity, is the Underground Vaults in Hutchinson Kansas. It would be a great backup option for both digital and film. 

Since everyone seems to be comparing who has the most comprehensive backup, I will tell a lie and say I store all my data at Hutchinson.

You can get your estimate here: http://www.undergroundvaults.com/offerings/secure-storage/media-vaults/


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## georgemeier (Jun 10, 2017)

Hi, I agree that chemical reacts differently to different materials. According to me most of the fumigation professionals aware you about the things which are getting affected by chemicals. Recently my friend has moved to his new house with the help of professional movers Brooklyn ny who provided him moving and moving and fumigation service. According to him, they provided good service and their way of working was quality driven and none of his belonging gets affected by fumigation process.


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