# A Bit of EOS 7D Replacement Info [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 11, 2014)

```
<div style="float: right; margin:0 0 76px 0px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/08/a-bit-of-eos-7d-replacement-info-cr2/">Tweet</a></div>
<p><strong>*UPDATE*

</strong>We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best. The camera will also not have a touch screen like the EOS 70D, as Canon has opted for a much more durable solution covering the LCD.</p>
<p><strong>Original Post</strong>

There hasn’t been a lot in the way of full specifications for the replacement to the EOS 7D that we expect to be announced in September of this year. We’ve heard it will come around September 5, depending where you are on the planet.</p>
<p>A good source tells us that the new camera will have EOS-1 build quality, which we expected. The camera will be specced extremely well, but will be missing one feature. It won’t have built-in wifi. This tells me it’ll be a higher megapixel camera (24mp+?) and shoot at a very high frame rate.</p>
<p><em>More to come….</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


----------



## Lightmaster (Aug 11, 2014)

what has wifi to do with higher megapixels and framerate?

give it 802.11ac.


----------



## chrysoberyl (Aug 11, 2014)

Good - I have yet to use the wifi on my 6D, and don't intend to.


----------



## Khalai (Aug 11, 2014)

Lightmaster said:


> what has wifi to do with higher megapixels and framerate?
> 
> give it 802.11ac.



If WiFi means polycarbonate top plate like 6D, they probably sacrificed it for the sake of ultimate build. Also, if you would ever need WiFi, you can always buy Canon WiFi module (for extraorbitant price that is ).


----------



## Lee Jay (Aug 11, 2014)

No built in WiFi? That kills it. It's utterly and totally useless. Heck, I might as well use film!

Not really. But wifi would have been nice to fiddle with for me, at times, especially when I have it attached to my telescope.

Now, if it's missing a direct print button, then I'm out for sure.


----------



## Lee Jay (Aug 11, 2014)

dilbert said:


> That will send the price north and won't be quite the same deal that the 7D was originally. That's bound to upset some who will then need to look at the 70D or 80D as their upgrade from the 7D.
> 
> Maybe the thing to do is think of the 7DII as the "upgrade" or "replacement" for the 1D4 (non-FF sensor in a pro body.)



1D build quality doesn't mean a 1D body. I'd argue that the 7D has near 1D build quality already.


----------



## Lightmaster (Aug 11, 2014)

Khalai said:


> Lightmaster said:
> 
> 
> > what has wifi to do with higher megapixels and framerate?
> ...



yes.. but that has nothing to do with MP and framerate as i wrote.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2014)

Can someone explain something about wifi?

I have read that build quality (metal body?) precludes incorporating wifi. Yet, the wifi card manufacturers say their product works with the 5DIII in its SD slot. If that's the case, then why would camera manufacturers be unable to design a camera body that doesn't have the ability to use wifi. It seems they should be able to simply shift the wifi portion to another part of the body.


----------



## mackguyver (Aug 11, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Now, if it's missing a direct print button, then I'm out for sure.


My thoughts exactly  ;D 



unfocused said:


> Can someone explain something about wifi?
> 
> I have read that build quality (metal body?) precludes incorporating wifi. Yet, the wifi card manufacturers say their product works with the 5DIII in its SD slot. If that's the case, then why would camera manufacturers be unable to design a camera body that doesn't have the ability to use wifi. It seems they should be able to simply shift the wifi portion to another part of the body.


I know that WiFi was supposedly excluded from the 1D X because of the requirements of military users. I could see this being the case here as well, assuming the latter is true.


----------



## JimKarczewski (Aug 11, 2014)

I was pissed off when the 6D came out with WiFi and GPS after buying the 1Dx.. Asking Chuck Westfall about this he said it's because the body of the 6D has a plastic top, where as the 1Dx is fully magnesium and transmission wouldn't work with it.

That being said, there is that big port on the side where wifi plugs in (along with GPS) why not make that an Antenna port? So if you want to use Wifi you just plug in the Antenna and not have to worry about it being built and not being able to get far due to the magnesium body.

That tells me it will be a full 1D type of body though, one piece magnesium, which will be nice..


----------



## Hardwire (Aug 11, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Can someone explain something about wifi?
> 
> I have read that build quality (metal body?) precludes incorporating wifi. Yet, the wifi card manufacturers say their product works with the 5DIII in its SD slot. If that's the case, then why would camera manufacturers be unable to design a camera body that doesn't have the ability to use wifi. It seems they should be able to simply shift the wifi portion to another part of the body.



Honestly no reason at all, coming from a career in the IT world before I have worked on many laptops at board level and most have the wifi "chips" in a central location and the antenna is located elsewhere on the board for best performance. This is also the case as some of you may recall with the iphone and the issues they had with the metal body and wifi/3g when you covered a particular part of the phone body with your fingers etc.

So in reply, they could well design a metal body for the camera and pipe via a cable to an antenna external to the metal shell for best reception purposes....and this does not mean it has to remain an internal antenna...


----------



## schmidtfilme (Aug 11, 2014)

What I really wish for in this camera is this so called Hybrid Viewfinder. Because at the moment I have to use for video shooting a Zacuto Z-Finder. The Z-Finder is a fine product don't get me wrong but it is not really comfortable to run around with. 

So basically I want a OLED or comparable viewfinder when shooting video.

The another spec I like improved is a much higher dynamic range. Basically like getting HDR without having to shoot 3 pictures. I care only very little about high ISO. I care very much about high DR. 

my 2 cents


----------



## East Wind Photography (Aug 11, 2014)

There goes the price point then. Early on everyone was expecting about a 2000.00 price point but lately with the talk of 1Dx type features and now the removal of Wifi, this body will likely be in 4000.00 range and Knowing Canon, I really expect it to be closer to 5000 or 6000.

Like another person pointed out, this will likely force a lot of people back down to the 70D.

No doubt however, this one will be an excellent model and look forward to depleting my account and any hope of getting that new Dodge Hellcat.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 11, 2014)

Having recently bought a 12mp G1X with Wi-Fi, its a klutz. Canon should leave off Wi-Fi until they can get it right.

Canon Wi-Fi requires that the Canon site be up and working just to do a direct transfer to your computer. Their iMAGE site has been repeatedly down, last weekend until Thursday I was not able to use my Wi-?Fi to transfer images. It took me until Friday to get it to work again, I had to re-register with the site because they changed the login, then erase all my wifi settings from the camera, then reload the 230 MB files and go thru the setup process again, which is slow and goofy. Now its working again, but for how long??

In the meantime, I bought a eye-Fi card and put it in my 5D3. Easy setup, and it works great. Then I popped it in my 1GX just to see what happens, and it works with no setup to card or camera.

I'd much prefer it to the Goofy Canon WiFi which is unreliable.


----------



## Lee Jay (Aug 11, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> There goes the price point then. Early on everyone was expecting about a 2000.00 price point but lately with the talk of 1Dx type features and now the removal of Wifi, this body will likely be in 4000.00 range and Knowing Canon, I really expect it to be closer to 5000 or 6000.



I seriously doubt it. $2,500 tops is my guess, and I expect to be able to buy it for under $2,000 at some point next year.

But, we'll see.


----------



## Lee Jay (Aug 11, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Having recently bought a 12mp G1X with Wi-Fi, its a klutz. Canon should leave off Wi-Fi until they can get it right.
> 
> Canon Wi-Fi requires that the Canon site be up and working just to do a direct transfer to your computer. Their iMAGE site has been repeatedly down, last weekend until Thursday I was not able to use my Wi-?Fi to transfer images. It took me until Friday to get it to work again, I had to re-register with the site because they changed the login, then erase all my wifi settings from the camera, then reload the 230 MB files and go thru the setup process again, which is slow and goofy. Now its working again, but for how long??
> 
> ...



Can you use live view and control the camera with an eye-Fi? I'd never use wifi for downloading, but I would occasionally use it for remote camera control.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 11, 2014)

Lightmaster said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Lightmaster said:
> ...



No it only does indirectly. Pro body and therefore Pro spec in terms of MP and frame rate. Downside of pro spec (other than price)? No build in wifi...


----------



## wtlloyd (Aug 11, 2014)

6D wifi is weak and slow. Drops out, range not much more than 10' before disconnect.

I expect to try the TP Link TL-MR3040 soon to see how it compares. Only $40.


----------



## RGF (Aug 11, 2014)

wifi is little use for field work (sports and wildlife). Wifi is only useful in the studio where a base station can be available.

As far as 1D build, I would like to see a mini-1Dx but don't think this will that camera. 

More importantly I would like to see Canon significantly increase their DR.

Hope not to see a Foveon-type sensor with poor dynamic range


----------



## GmwDarkroom (Aug 11, 2014)

wtlloyd said:


> I expect to try the TP Link TL-MR3040 soon to see how it compares. Only $40.


This is what I use on my 60D. Works great. The DSLR Controller app is better than Canon's app and the range on the TP Link is excellent. I get 30 or so feet -- maybe a bit more -- depending on the environment. For the money, it can't be beat.

I'm hoping the IQ will significantly increase over what APS-C has to offer now. If not, I may save my money for a full-frame.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div style="float: right; margin:0 0 76px 0px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/08/a-bit-of-eos-7d-replacement-info-cr2/">Tweet</a></div>
> <p>There hasn’t been a lot in the way of full specifications for the replacement to the EOS 7D that we expect to be announced in September of this year. We’ve heard it will come around September 5, depending where you are on the planet.</p>
> <p>A good source tells us that the new camera will have EOS-1 build quality, which we expected. The camera will be specced extremely well, but will be missing one feature. It won’t have built-in wifi. This tells me it’ll be a higher megapixel camera (24mp+?) and shoot at a very high frame rate.</p>
> <p><em>More to come….</em></p>
> ...



the 7D was already with a 1 series body frame and weather sealing. I don't see much suprise to this, canon can't seem to get wifi working reliably with a full metal shell, and anyone with a brain could figure that it would be specced as a high performance camera body.

still see it at around 2K .. however with some fairly high performing cameras well under 2k - canon has to bring it to the table to see it as a fairly half decent value to a crowded market that includes nikon, pentax and sony.


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 11, 2014)

If iq is decent at 2500iso, I'll be in trouble


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2014)

rrcphoto said:


> the 7D was already with a 1 series body frame and weather sealing.



Not as good as contemporary 1-series bodies, though.


----------



## bjd (Aug 11, 2014)

GmwDarkroom said:


> wtlloyd said:
> 
> 
> > I expect to try the TP Link TL-MR3040 soon to see how it compares. Only $40.
> ...


Hi, could you tell me more about how this works please? USB connection from Camera
to TPLink then via the LAN to a Tablet running DSLR Controller?

I am using DSLR Controller from my Tablet direct USB to my 5D, and have played with DSLR Controller
on my smartphone viw WIFI to the Tablet and then USB to the Camera.

Cheers Brain


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 11, 2014)

Even though I do not miss built-in WiFI very often I do expect Canon to build WiFi into the 7D successor and any other new EOS model and implement it really well. By that I mean something much better than e.g. the 6D implementation and current apps - but rather state of the art App and functionality - fully matching or beating what CamRanger does. 

If in 2014 a camera maker is still not able (or willing) to integrate WiFi into any new camera model ... that tells me: "does not deserve my money". As simple as that.


----------



## Sabaki (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm just hoping it takes photos


----------



## Click (Aug 11, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Now, if it's missing a direct print button, then I'm out for sure.




;D ;D ;D


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 11, 2014)

Pretty much 80% of my photography on the 6D is landscape and this is shot on a tripod. Not always but when I can I use the iPhone app. & WiFi for live view to the phone and to remotely fire the shutter. Since shooting this way I dont have any camera shake at all, yes I have the Canon remote but hardly ever use it anymore. Its so simple to use so those dismissing WiFi clearly have not used it. 

The 7D should include WiFi no technical reason why it cannot.


----------



## sailingsilkeborg (Aug 11, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> ... I really expect it to be closer to 5000 or 6000.
> 
> For a crop sensor? Who would pay that price?


----------



## arvi (Aug 11, 2014)

Canon's thinking potatoes again? No Wi-Fi? At least put 11n in the thing. These cams stick around for a few years and thus deserve to have as full a set of features as possible. Especially at that price point.


----------



## TowcesterNews (Aug 11, 2014)

I have a 5d MkIII with Eyefi and the WFT e6 for 1dx. The WFT e6, pukka Canon wifi, is excellent, very robust in every situation, talking to iphone, ipad, adhoc, connections to laptops, direct FTP.

It maybe expensive but is worth every penny. The Eyefi in a 5d MkIII, is not a patch in terms of performance, yes it works.

I updated my 7d for the 5d MkIII, was happy with 7d, but wanted two cameras with similar controls, focussing etc, 5d III and 1dx sit well together


----------



## mdmphoto (Aug 11, 2014)

I use eos remote on galaxy note 3 to shoot landscapes, fireworks, family portraits, and difficult-angle shots with my 6d. It drops the connection sometimes, but it usually picks right back up also. I have yet to have one bit of camera equipment, computer, software, phone - any bit of tech that does everything it's supposed to do all the time or is otherwise flawless. While I find the 6d wifi and canon software adequate for my needs, I would still buy a 7d II, depending on the price, whether it has wifi or not - I'd just rather it did...


----------



## preppyak (Aug 11, 2014)

sailingsilkeborg said:


> For a crop sensor? Who would pay that price?


Seriously, people would just by a 1DX at that price point.

Remember, the original 7D was nearly indestructible and had the build quality of the 1-series at the time, and it came out at $1699 retail. I think its far more likely that the 7DII comes in at <$2k, with the worst case being low-mid 2's.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2014)

Lightmaster said:


> what has wifi to do with higher megapixels and framerate?
> 
> give it 802.11ac.



Probably that if it doesn't have stuff like wifi then it sure as heck better have everything else to the nines and that it won't be Rebel/xxD oriented at all.

Anyway this one sounds like a legit leak (even if it doesn't really provide any beef and that (and perhaps weekday leak) implies an official bits of crumbs kinda 'leak' and not really a leak leak which might give more, perhaps).


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2014)

Hardwire said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone explain something about wifi?
> ...



+1


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> I'm just hoping it takes photos



Why do you expect it to be able to take photos? I expect Canon will finally get with the times and catch up to like how the phone makers have been making phones. Just like with phones which are all about messaging and social media connection, cameras will now be all about advanced features (100fps, etc. etc.) and the actual photo taking ability will an afterthought (if they dare even bother included that feature at all).


----------



## wsheldon (Aug 11, 2014)

mdmphoto said:


> I use eos remote on galaxy note 3 to shoot landscapes, fireworks, family portraits, and difficult-angle shots with my 6d. It drops the connection sometimes, but it usually picks right back up also. I have yet to have one bit of camera equipment, computer, software, phone - any bit of tech that does everything it's supposed to do all the time or is otherwise flawless. While I find the 6d wifi and canon software adequate for my needs, I would still buy a 7d II, depending on the price, whether it has wifi or not - I'd just rather it did...



Same experience here with my 6D Wifi. Useful and generally workable. However, I suspect the 7DmII target audience interested in remote capabilities might be better served by a CamRanger or equivalent rather than 6D/70D-type Wifi and EOS Remote app. Features like an intervalometer, discrete focus stepping, motorized tripod head interface and much richer set of camera controls would be more appealing in the field (e.g. shooting star trails from the comfort of your tent, or bears from a safe distance).

Looking forward to seeing the details on this beast. I've held onto a 50D for shorebirds even after going FF, so a better performing APS-C might lure me back for my wildlife work.


----------



## GmwDarkroom (Aug 11, 2014)

bjd said:


> Hi, could you tell me more about how this works please? USB connection from Camera
> to TPLink then via the LAN to a Tablet running DSLR Controller?
> 
> I am using DSLR Controller from my Tablet direct USB to my 5D, and have played with DSLR Controller
> ...


The TP Link device becomes a network access point for the software running on an Android device. No LAN needed. I would assume you could get WiFi range out of it on a LAN, but I've only every used it in the field with the TP Link and my Galaxy S3.

Essentially, the TP Link takes over the WiFi pass-through duties it sounds like your tablet is doing. The TP Link also acts as a stand alone router so you can go anywhere in the field with just one Android device and your phone or tablet.


----------



## dgatwood (Aug 11, 2014)

JimKarczewski said:


> I was pissed off when the 6D came out with WiFi and GPS after buying the 1Dx.. Asking Chuck Westfall about this he said it's because the body of the 6D has a plastic top, where as the 1Dx is fully magnesium and transmission wouldn't work with it.



That's horse crap. The 1DX doesn't have it because it was built before they decided to add those features to DSLRs.

It would be utterly trivial to put Wi-Fi in a 1DX. You just have to design it sensibly. Nearly every laptop out there has a metal body. Wi-Fi doesn't have any trouble whatsoever with metal bodies. You just put the antennas under the screen bezel, and you're done. That's why the notion of the 7D mark II not having Wi-Fi just seems utterly baffling to me.

GPS is harder, because the signal strength is weaker. So I could *maybe* see them having trouble with adding GPS to an all-metal body. They'd probably have to make a small pit somewhere in the top, covered by a rubber plug with the antenna in it. Still doable, but slightly harder. Or put it behind the clear plastic upper display panel somehow. Either way, it can be done.

The real problem is that Canon lacks vision. They see their product line for what it is, rather than for what it could be. They fail to see the potential for upselling to prosumers, instead assuming that people who buy a 6D for its features will never want to upgrade to a 5D or 1D. They fail to recognize that the consumer market is used to having cameras with GPS and Wi-Fi (we call them cell phones), and as such, these features are important in any upsell attempt.

Nobody wants to lose features when they upgrade. Nobody.




wsheldon said:


> Same experience here with my 6D Wifi. Useful and generally workable. However, I suspect the 7DmII target audience interested in remote capabilities might be better served by a CamRanger or equivalent rather than 6D/70D-type Wifi and EOS Remote app. Features like an intervalometer, discrete focus stepping, motorized tripod head interface and much richer set of camera controls would be more appealing in the field (e.g. shooting star trails from the comfort of your tent, or bears from a safe distance).



Nobody would be better served by a CamRanger if Canon had actual vision. Those are all software features you're talking about, which Canon could trivially add. Or Canon could open up their communications protocol so third parties can write apps that add more features. Either way.

What makes built-in Wi-Fi unbeatable is that it is always there. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to go digging through your camera bag to try to find the device, plug it in, swear when you realize that its battery is dead.... There's simply no excuse for Canon's Wi-Fi implementation being anything less than the best. Unfortunately, Canon has made it very clear with half-assed implementation after half-assed implementation that they don't take Wi-Fi seriously.

Canon really needs to hire some hardware and software engineers with vision.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 11, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Having recently bought a 12mp G1X with Wi-Fi, its a klutz. Canon should leave off Wi-Fi until they can get it right.
> 
> Canon Wi-Fi requires that the Canon site be up and working just to do a direct transfer to your computer. Their iMAGE site has been repeatedly down, last weekend until Thursday I was not able to use my Wi-?Fi to transfer images. It took me until Friday to get it to work again, I had to re-register with the site because they changed the login, then erase all my wifi settings from the camera, then reload the 230 MB files and go thru the setup process again, which is slow and goofy. Now its working again, but for how long??
> 
> ...



Gotta say I agree. I have the 6D, I'm an IT guy. I have a lot of experience with lots of WiFi. The 6D has pretty bare minimum functionality and it's difficult to work with on the camera. I guess they decide on some features last minute from the marketing dept and then barely even test/use them. That's what it feels like sometimes, anyway.


----------



## wtlloyd (Aug 11, 2014)

Awesome, 'cause I'm very happy with DSLRController.




GmwDarkroom said:


> wtlloyd said:
> 
> 
> > I expect to try the TP Link TL-MR3040 soon to see how it compares. Only $40.
> ...


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 11, 2014)

Khalai said:


> Lightmaster said:
> 
> 
> > what has wifi to do with higher megapixels and framerate?
> ...



There is NO technical reason to not include WiFi, regardless of toughness or type of material. You can put WiFi in anything. This is purely a question of how to manipulate the market and target user to get maximum profit. That's what it's ALWAYS ABOUT. Anyone who thinks that Canon is sweating the small stuff because they love photographers and care about building a perfect camera to help photographers be more creative is being naive.

It's ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY, it always has been and it always will be!

The bottom line is that Canon would rather charge $4000 for a body (that might be a 1D class build) without WiFi and another $600 for the WiFi module for all those professionals out there that absolutely must have it at any price. (Sorry for the snark but it irritates me that Canon often chooses the ultra-expensive route.) Me, I'll use the Eye-Fi card unless Canon does something to sabotage that idea like they have done recently with firmware updates to stop 3rd party batteries. (Don't get me started!  )

I predict I'll be getting a 70D soon. I just need a better sensor and frame rate than my 60D. I don't need a 1D wanna-be body with a price to match.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 11, 2014)

bjd said:


> GmwDarkroom said:
> 
> 
> > wtlloyd said:
> ...



See this link
http://dslrcontroller.com/guide-wifi_mr3040.php


----------



## dgatwood (Aug 11, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Having recently bought a 12mp G1X with Wi-Fi, its a klutz. Canon should leave off Wi-Fi until they can get it right.
> 
> Canon Wi-Fi requires that the Canon site be up and working just to do a direct transfer to your computer. Their iMAGE site has been repeatedly down, last weekend until Thursday I was not able to use my Wi-?Fi to transfer images. It took me until Friday to get it to work again, I had to re-register with the site because they changed the login, then erase all my wifi settings from the camera, then reload the 230 MB files and go thru the setup process again, which is slow and goofy. Now its working again, but for how long??



I've used my computer to pull photos off my 6D with Wi-Fi, and I've never used Canon's image site. Just use EOS Utility instead of whatever you're using. That said, since Canon doesn't support 802.11ac, sticking the flash card in your computer is a lot faster. The more interesting reasons to use Wi-Fi are:


Remote shooting (control and viewing)
Copying photos to your phone (at reduced quality) for a quick upload to Facebook

And if it were supported, I'd also add automated backups to that list.


----------



## gsealy (Aug 11, 2014)

I don't use camera Wifi and it would never enter into my purchase decision.


----------



## Famateur (Aug 11, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> This is purely a question of how to manipulate the market and target user to get maximum profit. That's what it's ALWAYS ABOUT. Anyone who thinks that Canon is sweating the small stuff because they love photographers and care about building a perfect camera to help photographers be more creative is being naive.
> 
> It's ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY, it always has been and it always will be!



Agreed. It's always about the money. It has to be -- it's a business, not philanthropy! A business's first priority must be to stay in business. Next priority is profit for its stakeholders (otherwise, who would risk investing their money, and if no one invests, how does the business support growth and development?). How the business responds to market needs is simply the strategy to achieve these ends.

Anyone who thinks that building the perfect camera to help photographers be more creative will keep the company financially viable for decades in a highly competitive market is also naive. 

Here's a thought: How would a wedding or portrait photographer's business do if he or she only offered one package at one price -- the one they thought was the perfect package for everyone? Wouldn't such an approach _narrow _their market and _limit _their revenue?

Another thought: Research into new technology is expensive and does NOT include a guaranteed return on that investment -- it's risky! Do companies try to squeeze as much revenue out of the market as possible? You bet they do! For profits, yes, but also to fund research that carries significant risk.

Another thought: The companies we see being "innovative" or "bold" (like Sony) are taking tremendous risk in an attempt to gain market share. Their position in the industry compels them to take these risks to stay competitive. The market leader need not take more risk than is necessary. Such a measured strategy helps protect long term financial viability and funds risk-laden research -- despite the heartburn it causes some consumers.

Another?  Products are released in cycles and there will be alternating periods of excitement and lull, but some seem to forget that the lull is in the market, not the lab. That lull also produces revenues that recoup development and production costs and hopefully provide enough profit to fund future products.

All that being said, I'll worry about the 7DII specs if/when a 7DII is announced.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 11, 2014)

Yep *Famateur*, you pretty much nailed it. I thought later that my post could have been interpreted as negative but it's actually neutral. It's just a fact and you elaborated on that fact well.

That being said, there are some things that really irritate me, like the 5D3 not having a removable focus screen. 6D and 1DX do, but the 5D3 doesn't. Same with Canon not having built-in intervalometers. There's actually quite a list of things that Canon does (or omits) that don't really affect profit either way but yet they do it anyway. It's very frustrating when good money is spent on a high dollar camera that isn't entry level.


----------



## brad-man (Aug 11, 2014)

While I would certainly like/expect WiFi, I have yet to use it on my 6D. I will, however, be disappointed if it does not have a touchscreen like the M. I really just want to see this newly designed sensor and and see what implications it has on the future of Canon's cameras...


----------



## 9VIII (Aug 11, 2014)

If the 7D ends up with more than 24MP and the next 5D is also high MP then it'll be a really tough choice. If they're both low MP... I don't like thinking about that option.

I really wish everything had Wifi (and hopefully a built in flash RT commander).


----------



## RickWagoner (Aug 11, 2014)

First post here, been lurking this place over the 7DII lately. 

I use the 70D's Wifi for important placement and shots I can never get hand holding. Like on a birds nest or on a Feeder. The Wifi works good and compared to what else is there I love it! It really is a feature so useful to me I can't understand how it is not built in with cameras being released these day, 5 years ago I would agree with not going WIFI but today everything has WIFI, even Thermostats and cars and ovens! This is why I won't buy any Nikon, because if the device was designed and built correct from the start then you shouldn't need to add a dongle later. Once you put a DSLR with WIFI on a cheap remote controlled car your imagination will explode with ideas on you can not only use WIFI but never live without it again! 

On the subject of a Touch Screen. Most people who are used to shooting DSLR's know life only using buttons. But I would guess most of you use touch screen phones. Remember the day you went from a button phone to your first touch screen, that was a day you knew you would never go back to buttons on a phone. Once you get used to using a DSLR with a Touch screen it is the same thing. Again if it was 5 years ago i would agree but today the quality of touch screens are amazing, Gorilla glass is incredible! 

I don't buy the idea of Canon not going wifi over reception, not at all. This day you can put antennas on the plastic door covers on the card slots and still get great reception. Same goes with GPS.
I also don't buy Canon not doing Touch Screen over reliability, Any iPhone screen is many times stronger than any screen ever placed on any DSLR. 

If..and this is IF Canon does not do these two modern day features that are standard on everything we have today it would be because they want the 70D to keep its market place. It will force a bunch of people to the 70D line because they know there will be a load of people buying up the 7Dii regardless. I also see them doing a minor update in a few years that will include WIFI and Touch Screen, like Nikons 5100-5200-5300-etc. They will be able to sell more by milking customers over time by small updates.

BTW..Awesome Forum you people have here!


----------



## Famateur (Aug 11, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Yep *Famateur*, you pretty much nailed it. I thought later that my post could have been interpreted as negative but it's actually neutral. It's just a fact and you elaborated on that fact well.
> 
> That being said, there are some things that really irritate me, like the 5D3 not having a removable focus screen. 6D and 1DX do, but the 5D3 doesn't. Same with Canon not having built-in intervalometers. There's actually quite a list of things that Canon does (or omits) that don't really affect profit either way but yet they do it anyway. It's very frustrating when good money is spent on a high dollar camera that isn't entry level.



I suspected it was neutral. Think of my reply as taking your post as an opportunity to dust off my soapbox, and not specifically directed at you.


----------



## JimKarczewski (Aug 11, 2014)

Can we please have voice annotation on something OTHER than the 1D line?

Nikon does it, why the F*&k doesn't Canon? I think I agree with the poster above about their lack of vision.

But, as I said, that comment on WiFi came from Westfall.. But who knows what Japan is thinking. I think they act like a human centipede sometimes (look it up of you don't know what it is) and the programmers in Japan don't want to disgrace their managers by suggesting kick ass features.

An open API would be wonderful too. Look at the things MagicLantern has been able to to with cameras.

I could only imagine a camera that ran Android or some OS that had a completely open UI/API's.. As a Software developer I'd be in heaven. The lack of a built in intervalometer, the ability to only shoot 7 bracketed shots, I have a list a mile long that should be in the software of the camera but just don't exist.

Add to that, I found out what a pig the 1Dx is when you connect it directly to a laptop with an Ethernet cable. It SUCKS. It's painfully slow and the gigabit ethernet is faster than the internal throughput of the camera. FAIL. Instead if you want fast transfers to a laptop you need to use the wifi transmitter which I was told has it's own buffer in it so you lose that slowdown you get with a physical wire.. Which made no sense to me. Why include an Ethernet port if you are going to make it so crippled. I shot 3 football games and gave up. I was using that for the reason I didn't have a USB3 port in my laptop at the time.. from then on out I just started locking files and downloading the locked files.

One more thing.. the 1Dx can customize buttons, which is great.. However, once you set your voice annotation to Record/Protect there is no way to playback the annotation. Unless you go into the menu, change its function and playback again, which I thought was absolutely retarded as a software engineer. There are extra programmable buttons but they can only be programmed to do certain features.. when you should be able to assign any button ANY feature.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2014)

dgatwood said:


> Canon really needs to hire some hardware and software engineers with vision.



Perhaps, although I bet a better move for them would be to fire some of the marketing guys and MBA types who are likely ordering the hardware and software to remove this and that and not do this and that.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2014)

Famateur said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > This is purely a question of how to manipulate the market and target user to get maximum profit. That's what it's ALWAYS ABOUT. Anyone who thinks that Canon is sweating the small stuff because they love photographers and care about building a perfect camera to help photographers be more creative is being naive.
> ...



OTOH where are Atari and CBM today? They had the best and the brightest and best hardware and software guys but they wanted to milk, milk, milk and hold back and maximize profit and well they milked and maximized themselves out of business (dirty tricks by Apple/Microsoft/IBM and a sometimes paid off press didn't help, but a lot was on the management philosophy of the companies that failed). Atari could've beaten Apple to the market with a GUI interface in a home computer (plus had it done with far better hardware and OS underbelly- see the Amiga, only Atari wanted to milk 8bits longer and kept telling the engineers to get lost and let us milk more, here is no need for anything more advanced yet, etc. etc. and they ended up losing the tech and by the time CBM got it MAC was already out for a year and then more bad decisions combined with lots of dirty tricks by the other companies let it never take off the way it should have (it already had pre-emptive multi-tasking, autoconfig hardware bus, separate graphics bus, fancy custom chips for video/graphics/audio, etc. etc. way back in 1986 already while the 'more advanced and serious' MAC and IBM PC with MSDOS and later Windows took years to get there, and in certain ways, neither one has really done it ideally to this day). If they had charged ahead as the engineers wanted they'd have been there first to the degree that no amount of dirty tricks would've been able to easily suppress the sales, by getting there later, even though they (or rather the company that ended up with the tech) did it way better and still had tons of firsts (although even Atari did better with there last second attempt than the 'big boys') the other guys had had time to get their products and their propaganda entrenched too deeply for a company with less than genius marketing skills to get past that.


granted it is two different businesses and it's not like Nikon has ways to play the extreme dirty tricks with the ease Gates and Jobs and so on did.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Yep *Famateur*, you pretty much nailed it. I thought later that my post could have been interpreted as negative but it's actually neutral. It's just a fact and you elaborated on that fact well.
> 
> That being said, there are some things that really irritate me, like the 5D3 not having a removable focus screen. 6D and 1DX do, but the 5D3 doesn't. Same with Canon not having built-in intervalometers. There's actually quite a list of things that Canon does (or omits) that don't really affect profit either way but yet they do it anyway. It's very frustrating when good money is spent on a high dollar camera that isn't entry level.



Like a working autoiso for one. I mean they've dribbled autoiso out for over a decade and still only gotten it to work (finally) with the 1DX. Evem just look at the silly maximum value allowed for the min shutter speed in AutoISO Av mode, it's absurd, there is zero technical reason and it would have been 100.000000000000% as easy to have coded it withut that limit (probably easier, since they probably had right to start and some marketing guy made them code change a line of code) and that is a fact and for the disbelievers proven by some alternate ML code bases where they removed the limit. And the way they lock out EC in AutoISO M for anything but the 1DX. It's absurd, we are talking zero cost, trivialities, and they play games trying to make it some exclusive 1dx advanced blah blah blah. Other makers toss it onto their Rebels!


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 12, 2014)

9VIII said:


> If the 7D ends up with more than 24MP and the next 5D is also high MP then it'll be a really tough choice. If they're both low MP... I don't like thinking about that option.
> 
> I really wish everything had Wifi (and hopefully a built in flash RT commander).



After experiencing Canon's lack of vision in exploiting the potential of WiFi, I would much, much, much rather they include a built-in flash RT commander like the SHOULD HAVE DONE WITH THE 6D. Heck, for that matter, they should have done it with the 5D3. It's not like the flash RT designs weren't already in the pipe when the 5D3 was being finished.

Another pet peeve about the 5D3, they put a slow-ass SD slot in it instead of UHS-1 like they did for the 6D even though the technology was available and mature. And when you have media in the SD slot, it slows the much faster CF rate down to a crawl. Totally ridiculous! Grrrr.


----------



## philmoz (Aug 12, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Another pet peeve about the 5D3, they put a slow-ass SD slot in it instead of UHS-1 like they did for the 6D even though the technology was available and mature. And when you have media in the SD slot, it slows the much faster CF rate down to a crawl. Totally ridiculous! Grrrr.



Haven't had that problem - under what circumstances does the CF card slow down when there's an SD card in the camera?

I boot Magic Lantern off an SD card; but write all images to the CF card.

Phil.


----------



## pwp (Aug 12, 2014)

dilbert said:


> ...Maybe the thing to do is think of the 7DII as the "upgrade" or "replacement" for the 1D4 (non-FF sensor in a pro body.)


The 7DII will be different things to different people, but if the specs stack up, it could well be the trigger for me to retire my over-worked 1D4. 

WiFi? Yes it's nice, but not a deal breaker for me. Touch screen? Now that would be an unfortunate omission. The beautifully evolved touch screen on my little travel camera, the 100D/SL1 woke me up to the power and practicality of a good touch screen. My go-to video camera, the 100% awesome Panasonic GH4 uses a touch screen that has forever changed the way I work (with video). 

Speaking of video, unless the 7DII ships with 4K, focus peaking, zebras and so on, demand for the truly ground-breaking Panasonic GH4 will continue exceed supply.

-pw


----------



## Barrfly (Aug 12, 2014)

Wouldn't an all metal body make a great antenna in itself ?
Maybe I'm missing something, but if they tack the leads from the wifi or gps to the body the whole unit might act like a transceiver .


----------



## bugbait (Aug 12, 2014)

RickWagoner said:


> First post here, been lurking this place over the 7DII lately.
> 
> I use the 70D's Wifi for important placement and shots I can never get hand holding. Like on a birds nest or on a Feeder. The Wifi works good and compared to what else is there I love it! It really is a feature so useful to me I can't understand how it is not built in with cameras being released these day, 5 years ago I would agree with not going WIFI but today everything has WIFI, even Thermostats and cars and ovens! This is why I won't buy any Nikon, because if the device was designed and built correct from the start then you shouldn't need to add a dongle later. Once you put a DSLR with WIFI on a cheap remote controlled car your imagination will explode with ideas on you can not only use WIFI but never live without it again!
> 
> ...



First post here as well. I spent a good deal of time up a tree this spring suspending an EOS-M, adapter and 55-250STM on a monopod well above my head. Also with a mirror Gerry Rigged to it so I could still see the screen and used the wireless remote to trigger it. A royal pain in the neck, shoulders, feet even keeping a foot hold, etc.

I have $1700 budgeted for a 7D II. But with no WiFi, and obviously no flip screen, I suppose an external monitor would be the only recourse. I was fully expecting to be able to use my cell phone to move focus and make adjustments as well as activate the shutter. Indeed I have forestalled buying a cell phone until I was certain it would work well with what ever camera manufacturer impress me most this Photokina. I have a couple grand in my photography gear now but I could dump it all easy enough for another camp.

As my EOS-M is my only camera until likely Black Friday I welcome tons of buttons. But if the thing has no WiFi, and no Touchscreen, why am I paying 50 to 80% more for this camera than a 70D? Touchscreens are fast, period. Pinch and zoom alone not being there would be a terrible shortcoming. 

I'm not climbing glaciers or trekking through the Amazon, build quality of the 7D is far more than enough for me. Heck even the 7 FPS of the 70D would do in a pinch, but I would far rather have a joystick, expanded focus point, etc, things that do matter. But if the thing is obsolete with only trickle up steam features, 22 megapixel, etc I would do a lot better buying a 70D or even a used 7D and putting that other money in glass. And if I am buying not so cutting edge bodies, 20 megapixel DP-AF or not, inferior DR, I might as well used glass to go with it, and if I am buying used glass I might as well buy a used body. If Canon or any manufacturer wants to milk this cow they need to provide something for me to be enthusiastic about. Otherwise the secondary market will get all my camera and lens investment. 

Case in point, I bought two 580EX II last night for about $320 out the door each. The 600RT-EX is a darn nice bit of kit but combining my two 430EX II while using their wireless capabilities makes for a broken solution. I might as well stick with my Yongnuo 622C units and drive all four flashes with ease.

I was glad to see this long conversation about the latest rumor as this helps to clarify ones own preconceived desires and true needs. In another words; Thanks guys and gals!


----------



## thepancakeman (Aug 12, 2014)

Seeing as how Wifi was one of only 2 features I was looking for in upgrading my 7D, this could very well be a deal breaker for me. :-\


----------



## tat3406 (Aug 12, 2014)

Wifi in 6D is very useful, I can remote shooting far from my camera, at least 30m i had test. The eos remote app is too simple, the apps need to upgrade and add more function to make whole wifi set up look more interesting.

I think the reason of 6D have plastic top is the GPS, but I seldom use GPS function.


----------



## Marauder (Aug 12, 2014)

Neither wifi nor a touch screen are "primary" features for me, although both would have been rather nice to have. The absence of a touch screen is the more surprising actually. It's been long speculated that the sensor will be a DPAF, but the lack of a touch screen leads me to question that aspect, given that a touch screen goes hand in hand with using a DPAF for live-view and video focus. I still think the sensor WILL be DPAF, but lacking a touch screen to rack focus during video would seem to be a major "downside" for video users, or even live view stills shooters. 

Again, none of these are critical for me--I'm primarily interested in using it with a good, bright optical view finder for wildlife, so video and live view features are secondary for me, if not tertiary. Still, it's a bit of a surprise, especially given this is a CR2. 

As to the sudden speculation that it will be $4,000-$5,000, that seems very unlikely. Anyone spending that kind of money will go for a 1DX. From early on, the speculation was that the build quality would be very '1 series' oriented and a price of $2000-$2500 and I suspect that is where it will come in. There are some who question the viability of a crop-frame at that price even, when you can buy a 6D for less and a 5D3 for equivalent. Those nay-sayers are missing the fact that the 7DII will be an action camera which, while not competitive with the full frame 6D and 5D3 in high ISO-low light scenarios, will outperform them in burst-rate and buffer size--and very much outperform the 6D for Servo AF (although likely to be a "tie" with the 5D3 for AF, unless Canon has something new in AF tech for the 7D II). 

On that note, I suspect the AF will be based on the 5D3 and 1DX, but there was one rumour that the 7D II will introduce a new AF system, with tech that will appear in a later 1D series. Many have scoffed at that notion, indicating that any revolutionary new AF would be introduced by a 1D series and then "trickle down" to the other models. However, there IS a precedent. The 45 point AF system used in variations in all the 1D series up to the 1D IV came to the digital line from the film 1v camera, but that AF system was actually introduced in the EOS 3 initially, and NOT in a 1 series camera! At the time the EOS 3 introduced the 45 point AF system that would become synonymous with the EOS 1 and EOS 1D series for more than a decade, the contemporary EOS 1n had a comparatively simple 5 point AF system. It would be a couple more years before the 1v would introduce this advanced new AF system to the 1 series cameras! So it's not impossible that the 7D II might introduce something really revolutionary, not just in terms of sensor tech, but in terms of AF as well. Time will tell!


----------



## jrista (Aug 12, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> No built in WiFi? That kills it. It's utterly and totally useless. Heck, I might as well use film!
> 
> Not really. But wifi would have been nice to fiddle with for me, at times, especially when I have it attached to my telescope.
> 
> Now, if it's missing a direct print button, then I'm out for sure.



Hmm. I wouldn't want an unreliable wireless connection as my connection to the camera when it's on the telescope. I image for hours every time there is a clear night, and wifi signals are prone to interruption and dropouts. A dropout would stop imaging dead in it's tracks.

Now, a gigabit ethernet port, that would kick ass. I'd LOVE something faster than USB to use, and a lot of the new high end equatorial mounts are putting ethernet ports in them as a matter of course now, so the whole entire industry could shift to ethernet for control of telescope imaging soon.


----------



## candc (Aug 12, 2014)

I like where they are going with this. All metal body, armored screen, suitable for military use. Get a 70d if you want the flippy touch screen and WiFi but get the 7dii if you are dropping behind enemy lines or shooting Tasmanian sea bears! I respect it when a company puts out a truly purpose built product instead of trying to incorporate everything and please everybody.


----------



## Lee Jay (Aug 12, 2014)

jrista said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > No built in WiFi? That kills it. It's utterly and totally useless. Heck, I might as well use film!
> ...



I shoot planetary and satellites, not DSOs. So this would help me with setup when the camera is at a funky position.


----------



## that1guyy (Aug 12, 2014)

Disappointed it won't have wifi. That is very useful for me for remote shooting and other manufacturers offer fully metal bodies with wifi built in and full weather sealing (read: GH4). It is a standard feature now and lack of it is pathetic. Maybe Canon's engineers aren't competent enough to design a durable body with wifi. 
Also disappointed in no touch screen. The GH4 is very solidly built and it has a touch screen and a tilt screen. Both are extremely useful for low angle shooting and "touch to focus" on the 70D is very useful. 

I also hope the 1DX build quality doesn't mean integrated grip or that it has an inflated price tag. 

Ultimately, the omissions of wifi and touch screen are forgivable if the other specs exceed my expectations, particularly in the video department. I know most people in this forum don't care about video but the video quality on this camera (in terms of noise performance, dynamic range, sharpness and detail) has to be similar to the GH4 and Sony A7s (except noise on the A7s though; that's in another league). 

If it just a 7D with slightly better specs then I ain't buying. 

Ultimately, it's all just guesses and rumors. Let's see what we actually get.


----------



## RGomezPhotos (Aug 12, 2014)

jrista said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > No built in WiFi? That kills it. It's utterly and totally useless. Heck, I might as well use film!
> ...



Actually, USB3 is rated at 5Gb/s. So even with overhead, is much faster than 1Gb Ethernet. Though 10GB Ethernet is showing it's head, I seriously doubt Canon would include it. Who runs 10GB Ethernet?

As an IT professional, there is absolutely no reason not to include WiFi in a camera. WiFi is everywhere and is a tiny chip as someone stated to earlier. The antenna can simply be the hot shoe. That's connected to the circuit board inside the camera too. Right? That's sending and receiving signals....

It's money. They are going to charge $300 - $500 for a module that cost them $10 to make. I hope this rumor is false.

And since the 7D replacement is going to be the poor man's 1DX, WiFi is totally useable for sports and event shooters. Many events have WiFi. If your camera is tapped into that, you can have someone with a laptop somewhere uploading files for the event or to a media office. Working a fashion show and having my images uploaded to my laptop automatically would be a HUGE timesaver. Especially if someone is manning that laptop and editing images.

I think the 7D is going to be awesome. But no WiFi will put a 'It could've been' phrase into all reviews....


----------



## that1guyy (Aug 12, 2014)

candc said:


> I like where they are going with this. All metal body, armored screen, suitable for military use. Get a 70d if you want the flippy touch screen and WiFi but get the 7dii if you are dropping behind enemy lines or shooting Tasmanian sea bears! I respect it when a company puts out a truly purpose built product instead of trying to incorporate everything and please everybody.



Purpose built? Canon is a business and they will design the 7D to appeal to the biggest market that makes sense. They don't design products for a tiny niche audience. Military sales are probably an insignificant fraction of the total sales of the original 7D. Nobody is "dropping behind enemy liens" with a 7D. Your imagination is weird. The 7D owners expect a certain level of durability with the 7DII, but having wifi and gps or touchscreen appeals to more people than a camera that lacks basic features. Most people don't need an indestructible body but just a solid, well built one. The inclusion of wifi and touch screen won't hurt that. 

I think Canon is f***ing stupid if that is true.


----------



## East Wind Photography (Aug 12, 2014)

Very glad they omitted the touch screen and wifi. Both just add extra cost, run down the battery quicker, and are pretty much useless IMHO. If you need wifi, get an eye-fi card.

I still see this thing retailing at about 4-5K and will likely be bundled and offered first with a brand new 2800.00 lens.


----------



## dufflover (Aug 12, 2014)

Guess I won't be going for the 7DII after all. I have grown quite fond of the flippy screen in combination with DPAF of the 70D for easier shooting. Even the WiFi has proven handy and will now be missed though I wouldn't quite put it as a core feature for me yet. In both cases though I find the reasons lame, all for durability. Suckered in by the durability scare-mongering, the same sort where people claimed 60's, 70's, 6's and Rebels would fall apart in people's hands or carry bags.

Shame too because a 70D with whatever FINALLY updated sensor would be sweet.

Omitting these features does NOT reduce the cost - it just gives them more excuse to charge more claiming it's a higher end body.


----------



## charli18 (Aug 12, 2014)

I really hope Canon ditches the stupid popup flash this time... Never used it on my last 7D. Canon could include wifi and gps capabilities while utilizing polycarbonate for signal if no flash were present. Of course this is all speculation. What i want is a 1DX crop


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 12, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > If the 7D ends up with more than 24MP and the next 5D is also high MP then it'll be a really tough choice. If they're both low MP... I don't like thinking about that option.
> ...



Actually the SD slot wasn't Canon marketing. The DIGIC chips they used are based off of some TI core that apparently was not capable of driving both CF and SD at max speed. With 1 digic in the 5D3 it was completely impossible. Maybe digic 6 or later has a more advanced interface.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 12, 2014)

charli18 said:


> I really hope Canon ditches the stupid popup flash this time...



I really hope it has the life savor and at odd times convenient pop-up flash and I hope they add it to the 5D4!!


----------



## dufflover (Aug 12, 2014)

charli18 said:


> I really hope Canon ditches the stupid popup flash this time... Never used it on my last 7D. Canon could include wifi and gps capabilities while utilizing polycarbonate for signal if no flash were present. Of course this is all speculation. What i want is a 1DX crop



Not sure why you're mixing those two factors together. Putting it where the flash is makes it no more or less viable than putting it elsewhere with a small polycarb section.


----------



## dgatwood (Aug 12, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> dgatwood said:
> 
> 
> > Canon really needs to hire some hardware and software engineers with vision.
> ...



And engineering managers....


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 12, 2014)

that1guyy said:


> ... The 7D owners expect a certain level of durability with the 7DII, but having wifi and gps or touchscreen appeals to more people than a camera that lacks basic features. Most people don't need an indestructible body but just a solid, well built one. The inclusion of wifi and touch screen won't hurt that.
> I think Canon is f***ing stupid if that is true.



+1000 

Exactly why I bought the original 7D on the first day it became available. 
* VERY GOOD image quality (class-leading at the time!)
* VERY DECENT build quality (on-par with Nikon / D300/s; and still very good by today's standards; the few who really need more, should buy 1D series) 
* DECENT FEATURE SET (including pop-up flash working as wireless commander; only Auto-ISO was sub-par already back in 2009)
* VERY GOOD AF (at the time), 
* EXCELLENT Controls / User Interface
* and equally important: SENSIBLE PRICE 

For those very reasons the 7D was a major win for Canon. I fully expect Canon to deliver again, after having taken more than two regular development cycles to come up with the successor. 

In 2014 this would translate into the following
* best IQ of any APS-C on the market today ... bar none ... and on all counts: resoultion, low-ISO noise/banding, Hi-ISO noise/banding ... and DR ... and highest DXO score ever recorded for an APS-C camera ;-) 
* 9+ fps plus top-notch AF system -> not just some form of live-view dual-pixel-AF ... but rather: speed, precision, tracking performance at LEAST as good as 5D III
* class-leading feature set, of course including WiFi, GPS and RT-radio flash commander. THEN they may dispose of the pop-up flash. 
* OUTSTANDING controls/user interface ... including fully articulated RETINA TOUCH LCD with gorilla glass ... on par at least with iPhone 5, if not 6. ANd AUto-ISO implementation as good as 1DX or even better: as on Nikon D800
* DECENT price: MAX. USD/€ 2299,- at launch, street price quickly dropping to 1999,- for X-Mas/season sales 

Should Canon fail to deliver on just one of these counts for the 7D successor, it will not sell in numbers.


----------



## Ruined (Aug 12, 2014)

Wifi on Canon products right now is a joke. They need to seriously up the quality of their apps/software. I would say it would be nice to have wifi in case they improve it in the future without requiring a new body purchase, but that is definitely no guarantee. Done right it could be an amazing feature for amateurs and professionals alike, but Canon has not done it right yet.

As for the touchscreen, this I actually find disappointing for a camera which some were aiming to use at least partially for video, the 70D DPAF technology plus touchscreen allows for instant focus pulls with little effort; this type of no-setup focus pull is something that cannot easily be replicated without a touchscreen in a way I can think of. If that is not available on the 7D2, then I would say the 70D might be better for enthusiast video - while the 7D2 would probably be best as a most durable birding camera.

If the "no touchscreen" is true, I would personally go for the 70D over 7D2 for the enhanced video focusing features enabled via the touchscreen.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 12, 2014)

pwp said:


> Touch screen? Now that would be an unfortunate omission. The beautifully evolved touch screen on my little travel camera, the 100D/SL1 woke me up to the power and practicality of a good touch screen. My go-to video camera, the 100% awesome Panasonic GH4 uses a touch screen that has forever changed the way I work (with video).
> -pw



I thought a touch screen on my DSLR would be a waste of time. Then I used it on the SL1 this summer and while it's not a revolutionary game changer for me, it's a nice feature I found myself using more and more, esp when viewing photos on the screen with others. Zooming in and moving the picture around while zoomed is a HUGE time saver with a touch screen. I'm glad the implementation was done well.

I found it useful enough that I would rather have it than not have it. Oh and BTW, I had a touch screen protective layer on my SL1 and the touch screen still worked fine.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 12, 2014)

philmoz said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > Another pet peeve about the 5D3, they put a slow-ass SD slot in it instead of UHS-1 like they did for the 6D even though the technology was available and mature. And when you have media in the SD slot, it slows the much faster CF rate down to a crawl. Totally ridiculous! Grrrr.
> ...



There were quite a few write ups about it after the 5D3 came out but here is one that covers it well enough. In your case, perhaps if you have the camera configured to NOT write images to the SD card, it doesn't degrade the speed of the CF.

http://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/2013/01/tip-optimize-canon-5d-markiii-write-speeds-avoid-sd-cards/


----------



## bjd (Aug 12, 2014)

Stu_bert said:


> bjd said:
> 
> 
> > GmwDarkroom said:
> ...


Great, thanks very much everyone.
Cheers Brian


----------



## old-pr-pix (Aug 12, 2014)

Wi-Fi seems to work well on the Olympus OM-D E-M1 with its full magnesium chassis. Pentax K-3 also has full mag. chassis and its FLU card approach works great (at least playing with it in the store it does).

I'm still anxious to see what 7DII will bring us; but, question why a metal chassis would exclude any possibility of Wi-Fi. It's not a deal-breaker for me, just a curiosity.


----------



## candc (Aug 13, 2014)

I have a 70d and really like the touch/swivel screen and the WiFi function but I can understand why canon would omit these from the 7dii. It is being built to suit wildlife and sports photogs. The touchscreens are nice but they don't work when wet, really cold, or with gloves. Even sony is ditching it on their latest cameras.The WiFi is good for transferring downsized jpegs but its not very fast. You have to set your device to network with the camera to transfer and then back to an internet connected network to upload. Its faster to just pop the card out. The remote shooting is really laggy and not suitable for sports shooting.

Canon said they are building the 7dii to be a pro level camera and it sounds like they mean it. The WiFi and touchscreen are more consumer features. If I was designing an "all business" camera I would not incorporate those features either.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> class-leading feature set, of course including WiFi, GPS and RT-radio flash commander.



Lots of people calling for WiFi and/or GPS. Certainly Canon can include them, but doing so presents certain challenges and associated costs. Regulatory approval is needed, and Canon would need to maintain 'forked' production lines and separate distribution networks for the versions with/without radio capabilities, as they currently do for the 6D, 600EX, etc. Doable, of course, but perhaps one more barrier.


----------



## Lee Jay (Aug 13, 2014)

What is needed is an inexpensive flash-shoe mounted wifi/gps module with pass through. The GP-E2 and WFT-E6A together cost nearly $800, each only does one of those functions, and they don't pass through the hot shoe.

That's crazy.

I can buy a GPS module for my airplane for just a few bucks, and a whole wifi router with integrated battery for $35.

Canon (or someone) should release a combined device that passes through the flash hot shoe functionality and costs $50 or so.


----------



## dgatwood (Aug 13, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > class-leading feature set, of course including WiFi, GPS and RT-radio flash commander.
> ...



Regulatory approval is required for the body whether it contains Wi-Fi or not, though IIRC it does require a bit more heavyweight approval with Wi-Fi than without.

As for versions without Wi-Fi capabilities, normally you do this with different firmware—disabling certain channels, depending on what country you're selling it in. It's a different SKU, which is a headache, but not different hardware. For GPS... well, there are a few countries where that's illegal, but most companies handle that with geographic limits on all their hardware, rather than by removing the hardware.

I mean, if that extra $2 on the BOM is critical, yeah, you can fragment the production lines, but....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2014)

dgatwood said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Makes sense, thanks!


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 13, 2014)

As long as canon and all other digicam makers are able to put wifi and gps into quite a number of measly and cheap 1/1.7" and 1/2.3" dwarf-sensored compact and bridge cams .. Powershots, elphs, coolpix ... And are able to get regulatory approvals for those pieces of junk around the world ... There is no excuse on earth for not putting wifi, gps and rt flash commander into every single dslr they make.


----------



## scottkinfw (Aug 13, 2014)

This looks like the same hardware that the CamRanger uses with their brand name on it.

sek



Stu_bert said:


> bjd said:
> 
> 
> > GmwDarkroom said:
> ...


----------



## the blackfox (Aug 13, 2014)

my p.o.v is why fit gps and wi-fi and even video if the majority of users just want to take improved photos thats what a CAMERA is for the other bits mentioned above these days can be dealt with by simply using a mobile phone which 90% of people have with them when taking photos anyway .

this way all the power could be put back into the picture taking side of the processor without all the waffle that most peeps don't need or use .hopefully canon will have thought this out to .

i,m also of the view that it would be better for them to build a separate unit for the gps and wi-fi and just plug and play as needed if needed .

back to basics and move forward


----------



## brad-man (Aug 13, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> As long as canon and all other digicam makers are able to put wifi and gps into quite a number of measly and cheap 1/1.7" and 1/2.3" dwarf-sensored compact and bridge cams .. Powershots, elphs, coolpix ... And are able to get regulatory approvals for those pieces of junk around the world ... There is no excuse on earth for not putting wifi, gps and rt flash commander into every single dslr they make.



Actually, there is one reason. Marketing. Canon obviously has the tech skills to put pretty much put whatever they want into a DSLR ( except perhaps a clean low ISO, high resolution & DR sensor  ). They choose not to...


----------



## monkey44 (Aug 13, 2014)

the blackfox said:


> my p.o.v is why fit gps and wi-fi and even video if the majority of users just want to take improved photos thats what a CAMERA is for the other bits mentioned above these days can be dealt with by simply using a mobile phone which 90% of people have with them when taking photos anyway .
> 
> this way all the power could be put back into the picture taking side of the processor without all the waffle that most peeps don't need or use .hopefully canon will have thought this out to .
> 
> ...



X2 here. I'm a little bummed that a new or upgrade camera comes on the scene and is instead a "conglomerate of components" that each do something independent of capturing an image. And, we pay for it, like it or not. WIFI and Video costs something to develop and insert, and we pay extra for that even if we don't use it. 

That does several things ... lessens the R&D on image capture tech, adds components some never use, increases the cost -- no matter how small that increase appears to be, it detracts from other benefits we could get instead. But the bottom line, it increases Canon sales -- because we have no alternative, not because we want those extras ... adds weight, adds one more thing to break, adds cost, and bums out some buyers.


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 14, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Can someone explain something about wifi?
> 
> I have read that build quality (metal body?) precludes incorporating wifi. Yet, the wifi card manufacturers say their product works with the 5DIII in its SD slot. If that's the case, then why would camera manufacturers be unable to design a camera body that doesn't have the ability to use wifi. It seems they should be able to simply shift the wifi portion to another part of the body.



When people think of a metal body, they seem to forget that the metal shell on a DSLR is honeycombed with holes.... and some of them are quite large. I have included a picture of the 1DX shell to show the point...

When the WiFi card is in the 5DIII slot, it's antenna is almost flush with the case of the camera and is in the middle of one of those holes. It is not an optimal placement for the antenna and that is probably why it has such poor range.

If you want a decently performing WiFi system on a DSLR, then you want a decent antenna.... or two... or three... The best places would seem to be on the back of the camera (possibly integrated into the monitor) or on the sides under the rubber grip.... or along the top... there are lots of places to put it. Going for multiple antennas makes your WiFi system for more likely to get a decent signal and if they ever decide to abandon 2.4Ghz they will be able to get much higher transfer rates and far less latency.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 14, 2014)

Almost as important as the quantity and quality of AF points is the ability to link the exposure to the point you're using. For me that's a big one. Like when you have bright sky in the central region and focus point on the subject or the subject (bird) has a light head and a dark body and it's a portrait. In the case of birds moving quickly from one position to another there is no time to fool with the exposure. Bracketing isn't the total answer either.

I'd certainly would have had a 1DX by now if it wasn't so heavy for hiking. There is a lot I love about my 6D but I'm really hoping the 7DII will be closer to the 1DX AF, then it'll be my second body for action and reach, no doubt.

Jack


----------



## jrista (Aug 14, 2014)

Jack Douglas said:


> Almost as important as the quantity and quality of AF points is the ability to link the exposure to the point you're using. For me that's a big one. Like when you have bright sky in the central region and focus point on the subject or the subject (bird) has a light head and a dark body and it's a portrait. In the case of birds moving quickly from one position to another there is no time to fool with the exposure. Bracketing isn't the total answer either.
> 
> I'd certainly would have had a 1DX by now if it wasn't so heavy for hiking. There is a lot I love about my 6D but I'm really hoping the 7DII will be closer to the 1DX AF, then it'll be my second body for action and reach, no doubt.
> 
> Jack



Get Art Morris' book "The Art of Bird Photography", and read the chapter on exposure. It's probably the most enlightening bit of text on exposure I've ever read, and it completely changes how you think about it. You'll never have to worry about AF-point based metering ever again....it simply isn't an issue.


----------



## dgatwood (Aug 14, 2014)

the blackfox said:


> my p.o.v is why fit gps and wi-fi and even video if the majority of users just want to take improved photos thats what a CAMERA is for the other bits mentioned above these days can be dealt with by simply using a mobile phone which 90% of people have with them when taking photos anyway .



Speaking only for myself, I use GPS when I'm out shooting in unfamiliar places, so that I can revisit the shots later and figure out what the heck I was seeing. I could sort of do that with my phone, assuming I noticed the interesting building or whatever when I took the shots rather than later, while reviewing them, but it's less than ideal.

And I use Wi-Fi for talking to my phone. When I'm traveling, I blog about it to my friends on Facebook. My 6D gets great shots—far better than I could possibly hope to achieve with an iPhone—and Wi-Fi lets me quickly move them to my phone so I can post them while I'm wasting time sitting on the Tube/Metro/BART, rather than waiting until I get back to the hotel at night (when I'm tired and want to crash).




the blackfox said:


> this way all the power could be put back into the picture taking side of the processor without all the waffle that most peeps don't need or use .hopefully canon will have thought this out to .



GPS requires no real CPU overhead. GPS involves asking the GPS receiver for its current location, getting the result back, and adding a few bytes in the EXIF tag. It requires so little CPU power that it is lost in the noise. 

Wi-Fi uses a small amount of CPU power while it is enabled, but the impact should be near zero except when it is actually transferring images. And you're not likely to be taking photos while you're copying images off the camera anyway.

In short, leaving out these features won't yield any more benefit than making the LCD smaller by a couple of pixels would—that is, the difference is negligible to nonexistent.




the blackfox said:


> i,m also of the view that it would be better for them to build a separate unit for the gps and wi-fi and just plug and play as needed if needed .



Although a few high-end Wi-Fi users do use Wi-Fi for tethered shooting and in other situations where an external Wi-Fi device would be practical, most Wi-Fi users just use it to copy photos off of their camera while on the go. If you have to carry around an extra device anyway, you might as well carry around a flash card reader for your phone instead. So for 99% of the people who use Wi-Fi, putting it in an external device makes it utterly worthless.

GPS isn't quite that extreme, in that some people do carry around external GPS receivers. However, a big part of why people like in-camera GPS is that it is always there. They don't have to worry about charging up the batteries for a separate device. They don't have to remember to turn it on in the morning, they don't have to check to make sure it didn't turn itself off, etc. It "just works". You can't achieve that level of reliability in an external device.

Either way, GPS and Wi-Fi are what we in the computer industry call "nice to haves"—the sort of features that, if always available, will be used by a sizable percentage of your users, but that most users won't go out of their way to use—particularly if going out of your way means buying an additional piece of hardware and remembering to carry it around with you. My guess is that no more than one or two percent of DSLR users would be willing to carry around an extra device just to get GPS or Wi-Fi functionality in their cameras, yet I suspect that a majority of 6D users have taken advantage of those features at least occasionally.

So basically, they're either part of the body or they might as well not exist.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 15, 2014)

dgatwood
« on: August 13, 2014, 09:18:00 PM 

I find I use the Wi-Fi and GPS more & more in the 6D I didnt buy the camera for those features particularly but for landscape and macro I rarely use the remote any longer because I can even stand side on for instance in macro and see the live view of my iPhone and fire the shutter from there. In landscape or travel photography the GPS gives you accurate location data so like when I was recently on Cape Cod and went off walking the exact locations were captured of places I didnt particularly know but once imported into LR & Photoshop I did. 

On Dartmoor its quite easy to confuse smaller Tors but with GPS you can verify very easily once your back to your computer or even to your tablet in the field.


----------



## TrabimanUK (Aug 15, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> As long as canon and all other digicam makers are able to put wifi and gps into quite a number of measly and cheap 1/1.7" and 1/2.3" dwarf-sensored compact and bridge cams .. Powershots, elphs, coolpix ... And are able to get regulatory approvals for those pieces of junk around the world ... There is no excuse on earth for not putting wifi, gps and rt flash commander into every single dslr they make.



But they don't sell every pile of junkin every country, because they can't. that's the excuse. 

The GPS / wi-fi enabled ones are sold in countries that permit that (e.g. UK, Europe, USA), and not in those that don't (e.g. Saudi Arabia). That's why for DSLRs there is an "N" version of the 70D (N stands for Not GPS/Wi-fi enabled) and other GPS/Wi-fi enabled DSLRs that don't have wi-fi so that their users don't get arrested and cameras confiscated in the countries that frown on the ability to take a photo of a sensitive building and instantly stick it onto Facebook.


----------



## getoutandshoot (Aug 15, 2014)

"Canon seems to be taking leaks a lot more seriously than Sony and Nikon, who in my opinion, leak stuff themselves."

JEEZE! At least Canon leaked *some* rumors about the 7DMkII, starting quite a while ago. Compare that to Nikon, which despite huge demand, has leaked almost nothing at all about any competing camera. 4 months ago a rumor came out that Nikon was working on a D9300. That's it. We got a name of a possible new camera. And this is just one example. Nikon may leak information themselves, but the information leaked is next to NIL! Pro or enthusiast photographers are left totally guessing about what Nikon will do next. As far as I can tell, Nikon is SO SERIOUS about leaks that Nikon employees must be threatened with DEATH if they leak even a tiny tid bit of a rumor. Did I misunderstand you?


----------



## Straightshooter (Aug 17, 2014)

FYI: I was on the phone this morning with Canon's Tokyo HQ to inform about them checking websites full of silly banter about their products (which THEY DON'T!!) and the nice lady on the other side of the line did tell me the following about the new 7d mark II:

Build quality: cfr. 5d mark III (with second joy stick on grip)

Build in WiFi!

24mp sensor, new, but nothing spectacular SciFi as mentioned on some websites full of silly banter...

Build in Flash!

10 f/s drive

New AF system, based on 1dx but 'downgraded a bit'

Also, a brand new 100-400mm will be released with it (non pull-push type)


There you go, what 'being nice to a Japanese lady on the phone' can't get you sometimes


----------



## Straightshooter (Aug 17, 2014)

Straightshooter said:


> FYI: I was on the phone this morning with Canon's Tokyo HQ to inform about them checking websites full of silly banter about their products (which THEY DON'T!!) and the nice lady on the other side of the line did tell me the following about the new 7d mark II:
> 
> Build quality: cfr. 5d mark III (with second joy stick on grip)
> 
> ...





Oh, yes, almost forgot: it WILL HAVE a 'touchy screen' kind of interface!


----------



## crashpc (Aug 17, 2014)

If you will be as nice on me as on that lady, I´ll also tell you how it will be 
Hope she´s right, or that they don´t test her. You never know. It doesn´t exist until it´s "on the paper".


----------



## Tugela (Aug 21, 2014)

The 5th is two weeks from now, so we shall soon know.


----------



## DominoDude (Aug 21, 2014)

My own, very subjective, findings from a few searches yesternight:
Quite a few of the big shops that formerly offered the 7D, are now either at "0 in stock", or listing that they only have 1-2 items on the shelf (mostly in Far-away-ville, and they've had them there for years without selling diddly). None of them suggested that they soon would have new 7D's coming in.
Yet again others had totally removed the 7D from showing in searches and listings at all. Accessories could be found, as was expected.

It's nothing solid, but it *is* a change in behaviour that, at least for me, shows that current rumours are for the correct kind of camera.

Sincerely,
"He-who-kicks-in-open-doors"


----------



## Angmar (Aug 21, 2014)

The EOS 7D is now totally removed from my photo dealers homepage. ;D


----------



## that1guyy (Aug 22, 2014)




----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 22, 2014)

To repeat what Ive stated elsewhere I use the Wi-Fi to remotely fire the 6D in landscape regularly and it always works fine never had any "quirky" issues.


----------

