# Buy 60D now or wait for T3i?



## Zoide (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm very tempted to buy the 60D now given the big rebates which will expire in January.

However, I was looking at the release timeline for Canon (bottom of the page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_60D) and realized that the T3i should be out in about 2-3 months.

It's reasonable to assume that it will come with a new, better sensor compared to that of the 60D. And who knows what else will be improved, at least in comparison to the T2i.

At the same time, it would surprise me if Canon shoots itself in the foot by releasing a lower-end camera so soon that bests the 60D in one or more key areas.

So... What do you guys think? Should I wait for the T3i?


----------



## canonman (Dec 16, 2010)

That depends on your situation. First off, the T2i, 60D and 7D all take compareable photos under the same conditions. If I took a photo of a vase in sunlight with the same settings on each camera, then you would not be able to tell them apart. Maybe, just maybe, if we blew the images up by 400% then you might be able to tell slight differences, but only very slight differences...nothing all that huge.

Some say one camera is superior over the other, but the truth is each camera fits in a seperate nitch. The T2i is a light camera and good for traveling. The 7D on the other hand is heavier and bulkier. The 7D does have more features, but do you really need all those features? Are you going to spend the time to learn how to get the most out of your 7D? The 60D is in another league. Some say its the "Super Rebel", but not really. I think its in a different league then either the 7D or the 60D. The fact is that this one has a swivel screen. The swivel screen will allow you take photos that you could NEVER take before. For example, when I take my camera to a nightclub or a crowded public place and start shooting then there is ultimately people who get nervous and sometimes even get very angry with untold consequences. There are also those times when I come late to an event and have to hold the camera above my head to get any pictures at all (the other photographers are out in the front). 

So you have to be honest with yourself, what are you going to do with this camera exactly? I can tell you that the T2i is a wonderful camera and all these posters who say you need the 7D to photograph sports have NO IDEA what they are talking about. How do I know? Why do I say that? Let me show you. The T2i is my current main camer and, at this link, this entire website was shot exclusively with the T2i. http://bit.ly/gAwzR2

Look at the US Open and The New York Yankees game where you see the balls literally suspended in the air. Those athletes did not stop and pose for me. I had to get those shots while they were in mid-throw or mid-hit. Those tennis balls and that baseball are traveling at about 100 mph. You will also see some photos of a speed boat and other moving objects that the T2i's focus system was able to handle. So the T2i can photograph sports unlike what you hear here on the internet.

So if I photographed that entire website with the T2i, think of the possibilities with the 60D. Now if you are the kind of guy that throws his camera around then maybe something like the 7D will be better, but I have taken my T2i around the world and back. Its held up just fine for me.

Canon is putting out new cameras every 6 months just like Dell and HP put out new laptops every 6 months. I can guarantee you that there will be something newer and better out in 6-9 months. Guarantee. It all depends upon your need for the camera. At some point, you have to buy something or you just miss out on all those moments.


----------



## htle87 (Dec 16, 2010)

I don't think the t3i will be out for at least another year or so. You said there's an upgrade every 6-9 months but they are just going to revamp the XS. The t2i hasn't been out for a year yet and by the timeline, another rebel won't be schedule for another year and some change. it follows in increments of 2 years. I'm guessing the next camera that will be out is the XS revamped or a 5dm3 which is scheduled for next year. but the 60D is a great camera! swivel screen allows you to take amazing pictures at crazy angles!


----------



## AJ (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm sure there will be a T3i with a better sensor at some point.

Ask yourself: what part of the 60D sensor will limit your photography? Do your prints really require more megapixels? Do you need 24000 iso?

If not, get the 60D now. It's a really nice camera. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## canonman (Dec 21, 2010)

I just got my 60D tonight. First impressions. Definately heavier and there is more camera to hold then the T2i. The battery is bigger and thicker. It does feel a lot better to hold. I will do a review on it later with some samples once I get it up and running.

I noticed Delkin just came out with a skin that will ship in January. My experience is good and bad with the skins. The good is that I have bumped or scuffed my T2i in the past, but it didnt damage the camera because it had the skin. The small bumps became non-issues and you did not have to worry so much about scratches. The bad is the pop-flash seemed to get stuck and changing lenses was a little challenging sometimes. Normally, you just twist and done, but sometimes the rubber would get stuck. 

I just threw on the LCD protectors I had waiting for it and placed transparent 3M tape (the kind that can be removed easily) on the vulnerable areas I know are prone to scuffing. When the skin comes out, I will probably get it. I saw Delkin is coming out with it.


----------



## dash2k8 (Dec 21, 2010)

In response to canonman's post, I must disagree with your negative sentiments regarding the 7D. By saying your 550D takes just as good photos, you are suggesting that all 7D and 1D4 sports shooters are fools. There's a reason the 7D is a better camera, the foremost being its much higher FPS. 8fps vs 3.7fps is a huge difference between getting the key goal and missing it by half a sec. Now, if you can get the best moments in single-shot mode, then my hats off to you. But that doesn't make the 550D a better camera.


----------



## Gothmoth (Dec 21, 2010)

dash2k8 said:


> In response to canonman's post, I must disagree with your negative sentiments regarding the 7D. By saying your 550D takes just as good photos, you are suggesting that all 7D and 1D4 sports shooters are fools.



well the 550D image quality is as good as the 7D.
a 7D will deliver you more shots per second then a 550D... sure.

but when you donÂ´t need the fast FPS then the 550D is as good as the 7D when it comes to image quality.

for sports more FPS are always better... no question. 
thats a logic we donÂ´t need to discuss about. 

would i buy the 60D? -> no

i would instead buy the 7D. 
itÂ´s the better camera overall and not much more expensive.

i really donÂ´t care about the swivel screen.
i have one on my compact and i tried all cameras who come with a swivel screen (my family owns a camera store).


----------



## brothersage (Dec 21, 2010)

I say get the 60D now, I've been seeing alot of good sources saying the "T3i" is not due for a release for a while. They are keeping the production release to minimum considering there will be no big jump in technology overall for quite a few months... You might end up waiting till the summer before you hear any word of a new release, and on top of that it might not be that much better than the 60D.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 22, 2010)

Gothmoth said:


> well the 550D image quality is as good as the 7D.
> a 7D will deliver you more shots per second then a 550D... sure.
> 
> but when you donÂ´t need the fast FPS then the 550D is as good as the 7D when it comes to image quality.



"As good" from a practical standpoint in a comparison based solely on the IQ of the sensor, probably. There are some slight technical differences in the performance of the sensor in the T2i vs. 60D vs. 7D - even though they use 'the same' sensor the firmware and in-camera RAW processing are slightly different, they have different anti-aliasing filters, etc. For example, in DxOMark scoring, they all have the same overall score, but the 7D has a slightly wider dynamic range and slightly better low-light ISO performance, but a slightly shallower bit depth. Again, though, these are technical differences that would be barely, if at all, detectable in an image.

However, there is more that goes into making an image than the sensor. Frame rate was already mentioned, but is not the only factor - and in many cases not the main one. If the AF system can't lock on using an outer AF point because the single-orientation sensor of the T2i is not as effective as the cross-type sensor in that position in the 60D, the image will be out of focus. If the shorter shutter lag and much better AI Servo tracking of the 7D enables a shot that the T2i or 60D would miss, that's a picture you wouldn't have if you had the Rebel or the 60D. 

I'm not saying you can't take great pictures with a T2i, or a Rebel XS, or a 25-year old Pentax A3000 film camera (which, incidentally, was my first SLR), or a point-and-shoot - you certainly can. Nor am I saying that buying a 1DsIII will automatically make your pictures better (though it will certainly reduce your bank balance!). But better equipment can make a difference, and in the case of dSLRs, increasing cost generally means increasing quality. 

There are many people out there who have one product and say that it's 'just as good' as a more expensive one, without ever having used the next level up (and by 'used' I don't mean held one in a store for a couple of minutes). Similarly, there are people who say a particular feature, e.g. AF microadjustment, is useless and call that Truth, when they've apparently never tried the feature themselves. (I thought heated car seats were useless, too, but now that I live in New England and have them in my car, my opinion has changed...but then again, I never went online and started a thread about how useless they were, much less making out that my opinion was anything other than just my opinion.) 

One of canonman's frequently restated points is the the T2i is a great camera because it's so light. Now that he has a 60D, which he states is, "Definately heavier," he says, "It does feel a lot better to hold." I wonder how he'd feel if he held a 7D?


----------



## jamied (Dec 22, 2010)

I would hate to think Canon would release a 3rd Digic IV model (t3i). I would hope that they would wait till they get a body out that has a Digic V model (like say a 5D mark III). IF the decision were mine, and based upon feedback of the others, I would skip the 60D and go 7D. If your budget is 1000.00 then defo get the 60D now (since it too is Digic IV). It's going to be better sealed for weather then a rebel body *however I did have an XSi in some pretty precarious situations when I owned one*. I think the flip LCD is kind of goofy and have played with the one that comes on the consumer nikons. I really only see one use for that screen and that typically involves a shot that is using a tripod setup in an odd location/angle and the LCD/eye-cup are not easy to see in their normal positions. Any of those cameras though will take good pictures, the difference is going to come in ISO performance, FPS, weather sealing, and other features. hmm..in comparing the 7D to 60D to T2i the differences come in AF options/performance/more focus points on the 7D. The 60D and T2i both have the same 9pt AF system and metering system, but 60D has more fps. If you need speed and your limited on budget, 60D, if you dont care about 6fps, then get the t2i. I will concur that "speed" does not make a sports camera, and while I do have a 1D mark III I only ever use it in Low Speed motor and I have that manually set to 4 fps, even then I hardly ever lay into the motor. 

The other question I would ask, and I do not see you mention this, but what do you shoot. If you are just chasing the kiddos around the back yard, T2i. If you do a lot of backpacking in inclement weather, 60D, lots of tripod shots with remote shutter release, T2i will serve. Video, either etc... (I was covering an HSFootball game w/ a guy who used a t2i w/ 70-300 to video the entire game, the video came out well.) Both cameras will do you well, find a camera store that has both and go hold each one in your hand. I started w/ an XSi but it was too small for my hand. I went to a 40D because it fit better. To be honest that was the ONLY reason I upgraded from the Rebel line, it was just too small for my hands... But I would be interested to know what the OG is upgrading from and what they shoot as that should also factor in the decision..


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 22, 2010)

jamied said:


> The 60D and T2i both have the same 9pt AF system and metering system, but 60D has more fps.



Actually, although both have a 9-point AF system, they are not the same. The T2i has a single cross-type AF point (the center one), and the other 8 points are all single-orientation sensors. In the 60D, all 9 sensors are the better cross-type.


----------



## Edwin Herdman (Dec 25, 2010)

The missing information from the first post is what camera you have now.

No camera means you should go out and get a camera. A camera from the previous generation probably means that you should wait a generation or even two and invest in lenses instead - unless you already have the best lens in the class you're using the camera for and the marginal improvement from a previous generation APS-C to a current-generation one (i.e. from 50D to 60D or from T1i to T2i) is worthwhile.


neuroanatomist said:


> One of canonman's frequently restated points is the the T2i is a great camera because it's so light. Now that he has a 60D, which he states is, "Definately heavier," he says, "It does feel a lot better to hold."


I'm not sure those statements are mutually exclusive. Light is good; better grip is good. Not sure of the actual context though so I'll bow out...if he's trying to balance lenses on the 60D versus the T2i, I'd expect the 60D to win in most normal use cases (though for most lenses I'd like the T2i better simply because of lightness - it's easier to get some of those odd angles from holding it up high when it's lighter, in my view; I get enough shake as is with even a light camera held over my head).

I do agree with the overall point, which is that it's kind of odd to ask about getting a camera now which has a nice tilting screen, respected AF performance, and a pentaprism viewfinder, versus getting a camera later which may not have any of these features but may have marginal improvements in sensitivity (like at ISO 800 or 1600, where DxO Mark suggests the current APS-C cameras generally lose quality versus full-frame the most).


----------



## armando (Dec 25, 2010)

I had the same idea, but no matter what the 60d will be better than the t3i (makes sense).

the t3i may have a swivel out screen (really dig it), but it will still retain the iso of 100-200-400-800-1600, while the 60d has 100-125-160-200-250-320-400-500-640-800 ISO, and most likely you won't be able to turn off the agc unlike the 60d which you can (the t2i magic latern you can , but I rather have a clean menu like the 60d and not worry about bricking it (yes i know magic latern is pretty safe - but still) ) . 

think the coming year will be like this

t3i -> 60d -> 7d MKII -> 5D mkiii 

think thats the product line ladder of 2011-2012 or the new choices


----------



## Admin US West (Dec 26, 2010)

Canon needs to keep a gap in price and features between the t3I and 60D. I expect that it won't happen for another year, and when it does, it will drop in price as well as in features.


----------



## Aputure (Dec 27, 2010)

It's a different level of camera, feature wise and ergonomically. IQ you'll get the same thing. 

I find it hard to believe that the T3i would be the first crop camera from Canon to improve upon the 18mp sensor they are currently using. Probably will debut in the new 7D next summer. 

The XXXD models have also had 18 month cycles in the past, so it could happen again. We've seen the XXD all over the place (12, 18, and 24 months...) 

If I were you and I were debating between the 60D and the "next XXXD", I'd just go for the 60D and be happy with the extra features you know you'll have. 



Zoide said:


> I'm very tempted to buy the 60D now given the big rebates which will expire in January.
> 
> However, I was looking at the release timeline for Canon (bottom of the page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_60D) and realized that the T3i should be out in about 2-3 months.
> 
> ...


----------



## varonicadavis (Jan 10, 2011)

Nowaday new cameras are being intoduced every 6 month so I think if you keep waiting than you wont be able to buy any camera because in a new there is always some improvement. It depend on you what you require in a camera and if you are satisfied with Canon 60D than go for it and if you think it wont suit than better searching for other


----------



## DuLt (Jan 16, 2011)

I don't understand what canon planned with the 60d... It mad emuch more sense to me to fill their lineup with a 10mp low-light camera, not only for video but for night-photography.
That wouldn't breach the gap between the 550d and the 7d but would create a camera for low-light use. Something that canon doesn't have right now.

IO know the indie market would love it.


----------



## Etienne (Jan 17, 2011)

I have a 5DII, and just bought a 60D for a second body. Only used it a few times, but I am impressed. The swivel screen is great, it handles well, and performance at ISO 6400 is quite good. I would not hesitate to buy the 60D again, and it is much more user friendly than the T2i. The T3i will use the same sensor, processor, and LCD, but it will not likely have all the features, and convenient dials, top LCD, and other features. 

The 60D just came out. If you are waiting for the T3i today, then when it comes out you'll be waiting for the next 60D, then the next 7D, etc etc.


----------



## Canonix (Jan 17, 2011)

If, as expected, the 600D/T3i is announced in three weaks, when would it be on the market?

I had a brief try of a 60D in a shop recently. Two things I noticed: 
1. the top LCD. What is that for? When is it useful? What is the point?
2. when I activated the LCD for viewing, the camera seemed to have a lot of trouble focussing, and it took ages to take a picture. Now, a shop display camera is played with by a lot of people, so I assume that some setting has been changed - but which one?


----------



## J Live (Oct 16, 2011)

Prob a little late but thought I'd chime in a bit based on my experience with the 60D and the original users intended use - which was mostly for interviews.

I've been using the 5D for the same thing since it came out and was tired of carrying an EX3 video camera with me on flights (I always travel with a backup camera & prefer to shoot interviews with 2 cameras anyway for editing reasons). Anyway I was about to get the 7D when the 60D came out so I grabbed it instead and really like it. The build quality is no where near the 7d so if you were doing tons of outdoor shooting I'd go that route but remember your lenses will/would also need to be L series to handle weather. Weather proof body useless if you can't use your lenses. Also 7d has no manual audio controls so that's one advantage of the 60d - the tilting screen is the other. For 2 camera interviews it is very handy to tilt the viewfinder so you can see it while you're standing behind the other camera - as well as for low/high shooting angles for other stuff of course.

Advantages over Rebel line are significant: 

Build quality, same batteries/chargers as 5d & 7d, and biggest is ability it shoots native ISOs (160,320,640 etc) which is essential for video IMHO for lowest noise.

One thing that I didn't see addressed much is audio for your interviews, if you only have 2K, you've got to allot some of that to a good mic, either a lav or (preferably) an overhead boom mic. Then you'll need an external Zoom like recorder and a really decent set of pro headphones. An on camera mic is useless for interviews both because it is too far from the subject and you can't monitor the audio (quality or levels) because there are no visible meters while recording or headphone Jack. A big thing to remember is if you just have good audio of an interview and no video you can still create a great doc using photos, graphics text etc but if you have the most beautifully shot shallow dof interview and the audio sucks - it's worthless and unusable - which, depending on the subject matter of course, can be heart wrenching to loose those once in a lifetime moments - especially if you travel 1000's of miles to get ...on your client's dime! OK, that's different than heart wrenching I guess, that would be just called losing a client : )

Anyway all that to say, i'm very happy with the 60D considering it's low price, but don't just budget for body & lens, you'll need little things that add up like ND filters for outdoor shooting, fast(ish) SD cards min 30 mb/s, hard drives etc., so factor those extra expense in as well.

Good luck!


----------

