# Headed on safari, need some advice



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

Heading on safari in October. 

I currently have a 60d a 100-400, 15-85, 28-135 and nifty fifty. I will be purchasing a canon 70-200f2.8 mkii in the next two weeks after borrowing a friend's mki. 

On to my question, every site recommends 2 or 3 bodies so I'm deciding what to do. I'd like to keep it in the $2500 or less range. Below are my thoughts

1) wait for the 7dmkii (thinking about $2000) use the 70-200mkii on that and the 100-400 on the 60d, sony rx100 if something comes right next to the jeep

2) Refurbed 5dmkiii (slightly over $2550 through the canon loyalty program) use the 70-200mkii on that and the 100-400 on the 60d, see above notes about rx100

3) 6d through canon loyalty or used for ~$1400 with the 70-200, 70d (1000-1100 depending on sale) with the 100-400, and the 60d with my 15-85

Appreciate feedback (I know the 15-85 is efs)


----------



## wickidwombat (Mar 6, 2014)

option 2 then you can swap the 15-85 with the 100-400 as needed for wider or longer and just leave the 70-200 on the 5D3 or swap on the 100-400 if using the 15-85 on the 60D

the 5D3 AF is going to be king for your needs here.

leave the 28-135 at home


----------



## sagittariansrock (Mar 6, 2014)

Rent a 1Dx and 200-400mm. About 1K for 10 days.


----------



## NWPhil (Mar 6, 2014)

I would say option 2 as you have, but you are forgetting an UWA/WA and star/nights shots
Cheapest option for both - rokinon 14mm
next best option - Canon 16-35mm mk2 (not so great on start shots)
Do keep your lenses on at all times while on the road - no swaps.
The rx100 will handle most shots during daytime, that will require WA
If you don't care for star shots, you are set

ps: do bring a tripod, extra cards and batteries - recharging might not be so easy, depending where you going to and staying overnight. If you willing to bring a laptop, will help backing up and sorting shots.
ps2: don't overlook landscapes, bugs, flowers and people as opportunities to taking shots and keep memories.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> Rent a 1Dx and 200-400mm. About 1K for 10 days.



We will be on safari for 12 days. Rental would be $1500+ if I could get one in country for two weeks. Otherwise I'm looking at $1800+ for a three week rental. At that point I'd rather own the gear. Thanks for the idea though


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

NWPhil said:


> I would say option 2 as you have, but you are forgetting an UWA/WA and star/nights shots
> Cheapest option for both - rokinon 14mm
> next best option - Canon 16-35mm mk2 (not so great on start shots)
> Do keep your lenses on at all times while on the road - no swaps.
> ...



I would like to try some night shots. I would probably use the 28-135 although the Rokinon looks reasonably priced for much wider and f2.8. 

I will have a tripod that will primarily used off game drive. I will have at least 4 more like 6 32 gb cards. I intended on bringing 8-10 batteries with battery grips on both/all cameras. Currently on my 60d I've taken 500 shots and used 33% of 1 battery and 1% of the other. We will have power every evening as we are staying at permanent camps. I will have a laptop with an external had as well.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> option 2 then you can swap the 15-85 with the 100-400 as needed for wider or longer and just leave the 70-200 on the 5D3 or swap on the 100-400 if using the 15-85 on the 60D
> 
> the 5D3 AF is going to be king for your needs here.
> 
> leave the 28-135 at home



If I were to get the 5d3 I would have the 70-200 on that for a 35mm equiv of 70-200. The 100-400 on the 60d would give me 160-640 equiv. The Sony rx100 is 28-120 equiv and a remarkable little camera. I would have pretty solid coverage.


----------



## Kerry B (Mar 6, 2014)

Chisox2335
I went on a specialist photographic safari to the masai Mara and surrounding area last Sepember and going back again this year. The one thing I did learn is that you need fast lenses for low light, this is when you take the best images and this is the time animals are quite active, early morning and as the sun sets. My kit comprised Canon 5dmk111 and 7d as well as Canon 300f2.8mk11, Canon 70-200f2.8mk11, 1.4 + 2 x extenders both mk111 and canon 24-104 lens. Most shots were taken with the 300mm lens on the 5Dmk111 with and without extenders.
I can tell you that some people did have the Canon 100-400 and Canon 70-300 prime lenses but these were of no use in low light given their 5.6 aperture. Fine in good light. I hardly used the 7d as the cropping ability on the 5dmk111 is excellent.
The 300f2.8 lens is a tremendous lens for safari, so versitile with and without extenders, but you do need a decent camera with the ability to focus accurately in low light, this is where the 5dmk111 shines.


----------



## TrabimanUK (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm on my fourth safari in September and would recommend option 2 out of your options. The 5DIII is a great camera and 6fps is faster than the 60D, and I always put the longest lens on an APS-C camera for the extra reach it gives.

I have a feeling that the 7D II (or whatever) will be a Christmas thing, as it'll be Sod's law that it won't be out for September / October.

Might I also throw a 1D IV into the mix? 10fps, 102000 ISO, and second hand (in the UK at least) coming in at under US$2500.

My wife and I are currently looking at taking two 60Ds, a 7D and a 5DII between us, with a view of replacing at least one 60D, probably with another 7D or a 1D IV, though having spoken with some 5DIII owners, the 5DIII is looking like a third candidate.

Have a GREAT time!


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

Kerry B said:


> Chisox2335
> I went on a specialist photographic safari to the masai Mara and surrounding area last Sepember and going back again this year. The one thing I did learn is that you need fast lenses for low light, this is when you take the best images and this is the time animals are quite active, early morning and as the sun sets. My kit comprised Canon 5dmk111 and 7d as well as Canon 300f2.8mk11, Canon 70-200f2.8mk11, 1.4 + 2 x extenders both mk111 and canon 24-104 lens. Most shots were taken with the 300mm lens on the 5Dmk111 with and without extenders.
> I can tell you that some people did have the Canon 100-400 and Canon 70-300 prime lenses but these were of no use in low light given their 5.6 aperture. Fine in good light. I hardly used the 7d as the cropping ability on the 5dmk111 is excellent.
> The 300f2.8 lens is a tremendous lens for safari, so versitile with and without extenders, but you do need a decent camera with the ability to focus accurately in low light, this is where the 5dmk111 shines.



Unfortunately the 300 f2.8 is much outside my budget given the wedding expeneses and trip budget already. We are going to all private reserves where we should be able to get a little closer than at a national park so hopefully this saves me. Thanks for your input though. So far option is running away with it.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

TrabimanUK said:


> I'm on my fourth safari in September and would recommend option 2 out of your options. The 5DIII is a great camera and 6fps is faster than the 60D, and I always put the longest lens on an APS-C camera for the extra reach it gives.
> 
> I have a feeling that the 7D II (or whatever) will be a Christmas thing, as it'll be Sod's law that it won't be out for September / October.
> 
> ...



B&h has a 1d4 rated 8+ condition but it is $3400 usd  maybe I should have you ship me one haha. It is a great camera apparently much better used pricing in the UK


----------



## TrabimanUK (Mar 6, 2014)

That is a bit of a difference! Odd, as camera gear is usually way cheaper over your side of the pond.


----------



## jprusa (Mar 6, 2014)

I have The 5 M2 it is a great camera but the AF may be better on 6d , Do you have TC's for your 100-400?


----------



## Dylan777 (Mar 6, 2014)

@ Chisox2335 - Be safe, have fun & post some pics 

Keep in mind, if your subject is running, keeper rate will be low with 60D and 6D.

AF system on 5D III and 1D X(renting) is MUCH-MUCH better. Both have a lot more dual-cross and single-cross AF points.

I doubt 7D II will be on the market by then. So your best option right now is 5D III and rent a 200-400 f4 w/ 1.4 TC.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 6, 2014)

Speaking as a 60D owner who has used a 5D2....

If you are carrying 2 bodies, make one crop and the other FF

If you are going to be dealing with action shots, make sure one of your cameras has good AF capabilities. The 60D does not cut it. The 6D is not really great for action...

The fastest moving action will be close to you (geometry) so that's probably where you will be using the FF camera. (crop is best on longer distances)

Therefore, the second body you purchase shouls be FF and with a decent AF system.... and that means either 5D2, 5D3, or 1DX. The 5D3 really is a great improvement over the 5D2 and half the price of the 1DX, so that's where I would go...

And make sure you have the camera far enough in advance of the trip to get used to it.... don't forget spare batteries and memory cards!


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Speaking as a 60D owner who has used a 5D2....
> 
> If you are carrying 2 bodies, make one crop and the other FF
> 
> ...



Great advice Don. Thanks for the feedback. It seems like the 5d mkiii with the 70-200 and the 60D on the 100-400 would be the way to go. I cannot afford the 1DX give other wedding/honeymoon/camera related expenses. I looked at the rental rate of a 1DX but its about $1200 for the trip, I'd rather spend the extra $1200 and get a refurbed 5D mkiii from the Canon loyalty program and get to keep the camera.

I would be looking to get it in the next 2-3 months so I have 4 months to use it before my safari. 

The battery collection and memory card collection has started. Forunately the 60D and 5D mkiii use the same batteries. I would need to get some CF cards as I only have SD cards at the moment.


----------



## JumboShrimp (Mar 6, 2014)

Whatever the equipment, dust will be your #1 enemy. Bring many and substantial Zip-Locks to keep your stuff in at all times, except when you're actually shooting. The dust is incredibly fine and will for sure end up on your sensors. To keep your sensors protected, avoid changing lenses in the field if you can.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Mar 6, 2014)

Chisox2335 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking as a 60D owner who has used a 5D2....
> ...



If you don't want to pony up the cost to rent (and I understand) then you might want to do a "virtual renting"- buy a supertele, maybe refurb (the 300 2.8 II shows up nowadays from time to time) and then sell it for very little loss. I think you will miss a fast tele on a safari, and opportunities to go to a safari don't come often (or ever, in my case  ) to most people.


----------



## Lloyd (Mar 6, 2014)

I don’t know your level of experience. I am an amateur and have zero experience in Africa. There are many here who can take a picture of the instant a bullet strikes a balloon using a pinhole box camera. I am not one of them. Therefore, take my thoughts with that in mind.

When I had only my 60D and went to Yellowstone I came back disappointed with many of my low light photos. When I used my old manual focus no IS 800mm I felt I had to keep the shutter speed up and, fearing noise, I kept the iso down as low as I could. I shot in raw and I had a lot of noise in the shadows. In retrospect, I might have been better off raising the iso more and exposing more to the right. Since getting the 5Diii, I have much better results in the low light. I believe that most of this is due to the superiority of the 5Diii and some is due to just gaining more experience. My vote would be for you to get the 5Diii for its low light abilities, provided you have enough time prior to the trip to get familiar with its characteristics. 

Have a great trip and don’t get so caught up in the photography that it detracts from what will likely be some moments of a lifetime.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 6, 2014)

Lloyd said:


> I don’t know your level of experience. I am an amateur and have zero experience in Africa. There are many here who can take a picture of the instant a bullet strikes a balloon using a pinhole box camera. I am not one of them. Therefore, take my thoughts with that in mind.
> 
> When I had only my 60D and went to Yellowstone I came back disappointed with many of my low light photos. When I used my old manual focus no IS 800mm I felt I had to keep the shutter speed up and, fearing noise, I kept the iso down as low as I could. I shot in raw and I had a lot of noise in the shadows. In retrospect, I might have been better off raising the iso more and exposing more to the right. Since getting the 5Diii, I have much better results in the low light. I believe that most of this is due to the superiority of the 5Diii and some is due to just gaining more experience. My vote would be for you to get the 5Diii for its low light abilities, provided you have enough time prior to the trip to get familiar with its characteristics.
> 
> ...



I'm similar Lloyd. I have used my 60d at a couple hockey games with average low light success. I would expect much improvement from a 5d mkiii vs the 60d. 

You sound like you've been talking to my fiancé with that last comment


----------



## wickidwombat (Mar 7, 2014)

another thought have you considered the sigma 120-300 f2.8 OS? the previous non S version is quite cheap now and still amazing optically. much more budget friendly than the canon 300 2.8.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 7, 2014)

Chisox2335 said:


> Lloyd said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t know your level of experience. I am an amateur and have zero experience in Africa. There are many here who can take a picture of the instant a bullet strikes a balloon using a pinhole box camera. I am not one of them. Therefore, take my thoughts with that in mind.
> ...


The 5D2 is at least a stop better than the 60D, and the 5D3 is supposed to be about a stop better than the 5D2...


----------



## philmoz (Mar 7, 2014)

Not directly related to the OP's original question; but if you're travelling in open vehicles then a bean bag may be useful.

I used one of these in Africa in 2012 and it helped me a lot - http://thepod.ca/.

Phil.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 7, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> another thought have you considered the sigma 120-300 f2.8 OS? the previous non S version is quite cheap now and still amazing optically. much more budget friendly than the canon 300 2.8.



I think at this point the 70-200 will be my longest f2.8. There is a sigma 120-300 f2.8 on b&h for $2500 but I already own the 100-400. Even if I sold the 100-400 the extra $1500 is out of the remaining budget if I plan to buy a 5d mkiii


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 7, 2014)

philmoz said:


> Not directly related to the OP's original question; but if you're travelling in open vehicles then a bean bag may be useful.
> 
> I used one of these in Africa in 2012 and it helped me a lot - http://thepod.ca/.
> 
> Phil.



Bean bag is on the list of things to buy. I looked at the pod. You're a fan? What color for the lenses I'm thinking?


----------



## philmoz (Mar 7, 2014)

Chisox2335 said:


> philmoz said:
> 
> 
> > Not directly related to the OP's original question; but if you're travelling in open vehicles then a bean bag may be useful.
> ...



The main advantage over a plain bean bag is the attachment to the camera or lens - it makes it very easy to move around without remembering to pick up the bag all the time.

I used the red one with the 70-300L attached to the lens tripod ring (camera was a 7D).
I've also used it occasionally with the 100-400L.

According to their web site this is not a recommended configuration; but I've had no problems. I got the red one to keep the weight and size down.

Phil.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 7, 2014)

philmoz said:


> Chisox2335 said:
> 
> 
> > philmoz said:
> ...




http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/774087-REG

This is the one I had been looking at. Was going to get a ball mount so I could keep quick release plates on my cameras so I could keep them in my bags during the driving to reduce dust


----------



## philmoz (Mar 7, 2014)

Chisox2335 said:


> philmoz said:
> 
> 
> > Chisox2335 said:
> ...



If you've got the room, then it looks like a more versatile option than 'the pod'.

Some of the vehicles I was travelling in had fairly high roofs, and since I'm not very tall (167cm), I occasionally had to stretch to get the camera positioned out the top of the vehicle. Adding an extra ball head would not have worked as well for me.

Also, keep in mind if you're travelling with a group, that you may not have much room in the vehicle for your gear.

Phil.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 7, 2014)

philmoz said:


> Chisox2335 said:
> 
> 
> > philmoz said:
> ...



Agreed. I very well may have to modify depending on who is with us. Hopefully it won't be too busy. 

Going to bring it empty, reserve I'm staying at already agreed to provide beans or rice to fill it.


----------



## sanj (Mar 7, 2014)

6D and 7D. I have been extensively in Africa.
Ask yourself these questions seriously:
1. Since you are on your honeymoon, how many real low light situations will you actually encounter? Hint: 7D has good focus and good IQ in bright light. The crop sensor will be very helpful.
2. How many action shots would you actually witness? Most wildlife and especially lions will not require blazing auto focus. Hint: 6D is just fine. 

Enjoy the trip.


----------



## sanj (Mar 7, 2014)

Chisox2335 said:


> philmoz said:
> 
> 
> > Not directly related to the OP's original question; but if you're travelling in open vehicles then a bean bag may be useful.
> ...



I never carry a bean bag and clutter up my suitcase. I fold a towel from the hotel and rest my lens on it. No problems.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 7, 2014)

sanj said:


> Chisox2335 said:
> 
> 
> > philmoz said:
> ...



Thanks for the input sanj. I have actually been in touch with a wildlife photographer who teaches at two of the three reserves he specifically recommended a beanbag. The towel is an interesting consideration though. 

With regards to your other post, we will be doing dusk and dawn game drives daily based on my discussions with the reserves. With that said, I don't think I'll be doing low light BIF photography. I was previously leaning towards the 6D and 70D (from everything I've read the 70D is slightly better than the 7D in most regards build and FPS being the exceptions). If I did that though I'd have three bodies with me. I might find that the 60D stays in camp most of the time and would strictly be a backup at that point.


----------



## Vivid Color (Mar 7, 2014)

Based on my trip to Tanzania last year, I would recommend getting a beanbag, but I would recommend getting a fairly simple one. Especially, if you do not know right now exactly what type of vehicle you will have or how many people will be in your vehicle. From my experience, sometimes I was shooting sitting down out of a window and sometimes I was standing up shooting out through the pop top. When the vehicle was stopped, I was moving constantly from window level to pop top level. I would not have wanted a heavy beanbag attached to my camera, but that's just me. And if you fill it with beans in Africa, like I did, it can get very heavy. Sometimes you will want to use the beanbag, and it can be a godsend, and sometimes you'll find that it's not very useful at all. Whatever you get, be sure that there is someway to fasten it to the vehicle so you don't lose it. This is the one I bought: http://www.kgear.com/store/r420.html

As for the dust, I will echo what others have said and strongly encourage you to change lenses only in your hotel room. 
I can't say enough good things about B+ W's filters with nano coatings. The nano coating literally makes the dust slide off the filter. 

I did not take a computer and I am really glad I left it at home. I just kept all the files on the disks and used two think tank card wallets to keep them organized. 

One item that hasn't been mentioned, but I highly recommend you bring, is one or more small extension cords--the kind you can plug two or three things into. This greatly facilitates the recharging of all of your electronic devices. 

By the way, I took my Canon 6D and T1i. I generally had my 24-105 lens attached to the 6D and my 70-300 L attached to the T1i. I also took a couple of other lenses and a point-and-shoot. During regular daylight hours, the T1i worked beautifully. However, it did not do so well in the very early hours of dawn. I would also say that about 99% of the time, the animals were either sitting fairly still or moving fairly slowly. So I would not worry about a high frame per second rate. As such, the 6D, with its exceptional lowlight capabilities would likely be more than sufficient if you wish to go the full frame route.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 7, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> Based on my trip to Tanzania last year, I would recommend getting a beanbag, but I would recommend getting a fairly simple one. Especially, if you do not know right now exactly what type of vehicle you will have or how many people will be in your vehicle. From my experience, sometimes I was shooting sitting down out of a window and sometimes I was standing up shooting out through the pop top. When the vehicle was stopped, I was moving constantly from window level to pop top level. I would not have wanted a heavy beanbag attached to my camera, but that's just me. And if you fill it with beans in Africa, like I did, it can get very heavy. Sometimes you will want to use the beanbag, and it can be a godsend, and sometimes you'll find that it's not very useful at all. Whatever you get, be sure that there is someway to fasten it to the vehicle so you don't lose it. This is the one I bought: http://www.kgear.com/store/r420.html
> 
> As for the dust, I will echo what others have said and strongly encourage you to change lenses only in your hotel room.
> I can't say enough good things about B+ W's filters with nano coatings. The nano coating literally makes the dust slide off the filter.
> ...



Great input thanks. I will definitely not be changing lenses on truck. From everything I've been able to gather the reserves I'll be at are all jeeps no pop tops. 

I think what it will end up coming down to is how good of a deal I can get on the cameras. I have a few months before I need to buy them so I can wait and see where pricing and new announcements go.


----------



## mm (Mar 7, 2014)

I didn't see it mentioned yet (I could have missed it). I can't stress enough that you need to bring some good dust covers. Depending on the rain (which you can't really count on day to day), it can be incredibly dusty! Incredibly. 

As for beanbags, you don't have to bring a full bean bag, most places (camps, lodges) will have beans for you to fill up.

As for lenses, we brought 300 2.8 and tele, and 400 2.8. In the Crater, you won't need anything more than that as most of the creatures will be close by. In the lands between the Crater and the Serengeti, you'll be able to get close enough. In the Serengeti proper, you'll need the longest reach you can get a hold of and carry on to airplanes to get the cats.

I've seen some commentary about shooting from the top of the land rover. The lower you can get, the closer to eye to eye you can get will provide a much better backdrop. If you're shooting down, the grass and dirt right behind the subjects will end up being a little too sharp and distracting.


----------



## watchman48 (Mar 7, 2014)

We have been to Zambia, SA and Botswana a number of times on safari and there couple of things that you might need to bear in mind.
If you are travelling between camps using light aircraft there is usually a weight limit on bags. I know that recently Proflight in Zambia introduced a strict weight limit on their internal flights. A couple of bodies plus lenses, battery packs etc. soon build up the weight. worth checking with your travel agent.
I wouldn't bring a tripod, prefer a monopod. If you are sharing a vehicle with up to 6 guests, space is limited and tripods take up a lot of room. I find the monpod easier to use, especially if the jeep, land rover etc. is bouncing around. No tarmac roads I'm afread. A lot of the good lodges will supply bean bags.
If you can avoid changing lenses during the game drive then do so. Apart from the dust aspect it's much easier to have two bodies set up with different lenses so that you can swap at a moments notice. I have the 100-400 and find it only of use in good light and would tend to use my 70-200 f2.8 for the early dawn and dusk shots. 
The light drops quite dramatically, especially on the equator.


----------



## mm (Mar 7, 2014)

Oh, sorry. And if you get a chance to see a cheetah hunt, put the camera down. We were given this advice, and I've never had a more awesome 10 second wildlife experience in my life and we've been lucky to see a lot. The evolution of the cheetah into a speed machine is incredible. You just won't believe how fast the move across a broken landscape. If you're looking though your lens, you'll never keep up and you'll miss it. 

We hooked up with a couple of South African fellow shooting high speed camera gear I'd never seen before, they had been in the field for weeks and were still complaining that they hadn't managed to catch the 'chase' and 'knock-down'. These guys were pros, serious pros.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 8, 2014)

watchman48 said:


> We have been to Zambia, SA and Botswana a number of times on safari and there couple of things that you might need to bear in mind.
> If you are travelling between camps using light aircraft there is usually a weight limit on bags. I know that recently Proflight in Zambia introduced a strict weight limit on their internal flights. A couple of bodies plus lenses, battery packs etc. soon build up the weight. worth checking with your travel agent.
> I wouldn't bring a tripod, prefer a monopod. If you are sharing a vehicle with up to 6 guests, space is limited and tripods take up a lot of room. I find the monpod easier to use, especially if the jeep, land rover etc. is bouncing around. No tarmac roads I'm afread. A lot of the good lodges will supply bean bags.
> If you can avoid changing lenses during the game drive then do so. Apart from the dust aspect it's much easier to have two bodies set up with different lenses so that you can swap at a moments notice. I have the 100-400 and find it only of use in good light and would tend to use my 70-200 f2.8 for the early dawn and dusk shots.
> The light drops quite dramatically, especially on the equator.



Plan is to use the 70-200 during those times 100-400 in good light as you mentioned. I will be bringing a monopod or bean bag for the truck and a tripod for astro shots. We only take one inter country flight and it's on a decent size sa airways flight. All other transfers are by car.


----------



## TrabimanUK (Mar 11, 2014)

Chisox2335 said:


> watchman48 said:
> 
> 
> > We have been to Zambia, SA and Botswana a number of times on safari and there couple of things that you might need to bear in mind.
> ...



Be aware that SA ailines have an 8kg hand luggage allowance. It's a bit on the low side and you might have to be clever in your packing. If your wife / girlfriend is going, then load her handbag, as women get the 8kg hand luggage limit PLUS a handbag.


----------



## Chisox2335 (Mar 14, 2014)

TrabimanUK said:


> Chisox2335 said:
> 
> 
> > watchman48 said:
> ...



Just got the death stare and "fine"


----------

