# New Rebel T4i vs 60d/7D



## Rocguy (Jan 18, 2013)

I think I know what I'm going to do already, but I thought I'd ask some people that know what they're talking about. Sorry if this kind of topic is done to death here. 

I currently own a Rebel XSi. It is long overdue for an upgrade. My dilemma is do I get another Rebel or do I bump things up a notch or 2 and get the next level up. So I started looking at a 60D or even the 7D. Which i think are the next levels up. But from my understanding these models have not been updated in awhile? Whereas I know the T4i was updated in the last year. I don't need the absolute latest newest, but I don't want to spend the extra money and get technology that is a couple years old either. 

So definitely leaning towards the Rebel, but with my luck a new 60D or 7 D would come out the day after I get the Rebel. Lol I'm also going on vacation in 2 weeks and am not wanting to wait long for anything newer. So would the current 60D be a better purchase than the T4i now? 

I'm a very amateur amateur. I'm really using the camera for fun. Travel pictures etc. at this point a 5D3 isn't even a wish for my purposes. I just want a basic "good" camera. Any input would be appreciated.


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## wellfedCanuck (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> I'm a very amateur amateur. I'm really using the camera for fun.



I think this puts you squarely in the T4i demographic. There are various side-to-side comparisons available on the web t4i vs. 60D, but it sounds to me like you wouldn't use the features that make the 60D a slightly higher-ranked camera. The image quality would be about the same, the t4i should handle low-light a bit better and it has continuous auto-focus for video.


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## Don Haines (Jan 18, 2013)

I shoot mostly with a 60D... To me the big advantage of the 60D over the rebels is the shoulder display and the easy access to some of the controls with it, particularly having a seperate wheel for Aperture and Shutter speed.

That said, I am intrigued with the T4i touchscreen and how it operates....I have not tried it but it has a lot of promise... one would really have to use it for a while to see how they like it before passing judgement.

If I were to make a recomendation, I would say get a 60D if you shoot a lot in manual, shutter priority, or aperture priority modes..... if you don't I would say get a T4i. Either one is a great camera.

Also, avoid superzooms..... they tend to be the softest lenses on the market.


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## Rocguy (Jan 18, 2013)

wellfedCanuck said:


> the features that make the 60D a slightly higher-ranked camera. The image quality would be about the same,



I guess this is where I get confused. If it is a higher ranked camera shouldn't picture quality be better?


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## wickidwombat (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > the features that make the 60D a slightly higher-ranked camera. The image quality would be about the same,
> ...



identical sensor = identical Image quality


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## Don Haines (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > the features that make the 60D a slightly higher-ranked camera. The image quality would be about the same,
> ...



The T4i is three years newer and has a lot more computing power, this allows better noise algorithms. Image quality MAY be a touch better than the 60D, but it shouldn't be a huge difference... Probably not noticeable without pixel peeping, but that's a guess as I have not used the T4i.

It's the ergonomics that sets the two apart.


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## jdramirez (Jan 18, 2013)

I started out with an XS and I upgraded to a 60D. I really liked the feel of the 60D in my hands and what pushed me to that instead of a t3i (newest available at the time) was the 9 cross type auto focus points. I bought the 60D and sold the kit lens and it took a while, but I have a few nice lens to pair with it (a 50mm f/1.4, a 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro, and a 24-105mm). I really really like the 60D. I use the LCD at the top right of the body ALL THE TIME. The 5+ frames per second comes in hand and while the 7D would blow it away with 7 or 8 frames per second, I personally don't miss it that much. 

Both the 60D and 7D are due for an upgrade. The announcement could be any day, but you can find very nice prices on the cameras now. I've seen the 60D body alone sell on ebay (new) via Big value for 586. B&H had a deal not too long ago for the 60D, an 18-135mm, and a 70-300mm IS for 1100. If you sold the kit lens and the zoom, you are looking at about 400 for the body alone. 

As for the 7D... I think I saw it around 900 for a canon refurb, which isn't bad, but I still think that is too much. 

As for the t4i, it has the cross type AF points I wanted in the 60D, and it is much better in regards to video when paired with an STM lens. Outside of that... I don't think it is a big upgrade over the 60D. 

The old adage is to buy good glass and keep your body till it dies... I don't disagree with it, though I did buy the body before I bought my nice glass.


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## jdramirez (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > the features that make the 60D a slightly higher-ranked camera. The image quality would be about the same,
> ...



At 4x6, you can't tell the difference. At 12x18... you'd notice the difference. But one wouldn't be a ton better than the other... it is just a marginal improvement. If you got a 5d mkii or mkiii, then you might be able to tell a difference at a 5x7.


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## cliffwang (Jan 18, 2013)

Looks 7D is not what you should get. For me there are only three reasons for 60D.
1. 1/8000 shutter speed
2. Weather sealed
3. Better build body


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## wellfedCanuck (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > the features that make the 60D a slightly higher-ranked camera. The image quality would be about the same,
> ...


Not necessarily, there are many other things to consider- features that make the photographer's life easier, features that make it more likely that a sucessful photo can be achieved under conditions that may be difficult, the ability to tweak and adjust the machine or expand the system...

Not that the 60D is one- but if you just need a decent car- a Hyundai will do- don't let someone upsell you to a Cadillac. If you plan on building a hotrod, entering car shows or going on rallys- buy a Chevy, Corvette or Range Rover.


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## jdramirez (Jan 18, 2013)

cliffwang said:


> Looks 7D is not what you should get. For me there are only three reasons for 60D.
> 1. 1/8000 shutter speed
> 2. Weather sealed
> 3. Better build body



I will say one feature I would like in my 60 d is micro auto focus adjustment. It was in the 50 d, but not in the 60. Ifyoudecidetogetreally large aperturelenses, that can come in handy.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > the features that make the 60D a slightly higher-ranked camera. The image quality would be about the same,
> ...



Not at all, even the new 5d3 has less sharpness at low iso than the old 5d2. But all these minor difference don't matter if you're not doing such large prints that 100% crop is important, it's much more important to get the shot done at all - and that's where the af system is important but also the usability: weather sealing, holding the camera for longer periods, changing settings, storing settings, viewfinder, button locations, firmware customizations. There is a reason older 1d cameras still sell for a lot of money though they have inferior sensors.

Concerning the 60d: I would never want to use a camera w/o a back dial like the Rebels again because I change the exposure compensation on every other shot.



jdramirez said:


> I will say one feature I would like in my 60 d is micro auto focus adjustment.



One of Canon's worst marketing decisions to protect the 7d by crippling the 60d firmware and proof that Canon goes to any lengths to differentiate their lineup at the expense of consistent camera packages.


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## Rocguy (Jan 18, 2013)

wellfedCanuck said:


> Not that the 60D is one- but if you just need a decent car- a Hyundai will do- don't let someone upsell you to a Cadillac. If you plan on building a hotrod, entering car shows or going on rallys- buy a Chevy, Corvette or Range Rover.



This analogy I understand. I guess my question is is it better to get a brand new Hyundai vs a 2year old Cadillac with slightly older technology.


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## sandymandy (Jan 18, 2013)

I would just get the Rebel in your case. Upgrading from APS-C to another APS-C doesnt make things different much. Just save ur money til u can a "real" FF upgrade. 7D i only suggest it if u need the high FPS. Next level from Rebel is 6D imho. An upgrade should be a real difference not a different body material and button layout. Fullframe is more different noise wise, lens FOV wise etc.


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## tortilla (Jan 18, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > I will say one feature I would like in my 60 d is micro auto focus adjustment.
> ...


Actually it was rather one of their _smartest _marketing decisions, because the missing AFMA is the reason why people spent more money and take the 7d instead of the 60d (at least I did).

To the OP: The XSi is a fine camera - as long as you don't do large prints of landscape and architecture I recommend to keep it and wait for the rebel T5i, it is expected to get a new sensor.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 18, 2013)

tortilla said:


> Actually it was rather one of their _smartest _marketing decisions, because the missing AFMA is the reason why people spent more money and take the 7d instead of the 60d (at least I did).



Ymmv, but that's the reason I don't have fast Canon primes except for my legacy crappy 50/1.8 from the analog days - in my case, Canon has been loosing money.

The possibly smart reason is that 3rd party primes probably are more often in need for afma, so on 60d you're likely to be stuck to Canon primes or search a lot for a copy w/o afma requirement.


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## Rocguy (Jan 18, 2013)

sandymandy said:


> I would just get the Rebel in your case. Upgrading from APS-C to another APS-C doesnt make things different much. Just save ur money til u can a "real" FF upgrade. 7D i only suggest it if u need the high FPS. Next level from Rebel is 6D imho. An upgrade should be a real difference not a different body material and button layout. Fullframe is more different noise wise, lens FOV wise etc.



I appreciate this input. At this point I'm really not ready to spend the money on a 6D or above since I'm really still learning. I can get the new Rebel with an 18-55 lens for $649. That's a price point that doesn't scare me at this point.  A FF would be nice but I guess I don't even know what I'd do with it yet. Lol 

As far as waiting for the T5i I'm afraid to keep waiting. I'm seeing completed auctions on eBay for my XSi for around $300 right now. For this 5 year old camera! That makes upgrading even cheaper. I don't want to wait till the resale value of what I have to drop more. And as far as it goes I could probably resell the t4i in the nearish future and not lose a whole lot if I decide to upgrade again. These things seem to keep their value on the resale market better than a lot of tech toys.


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## enraginangel (Jan 18, 2013)

I own a T4i, a 5D Mark III and I used to own a T3i. The T3i was my first camera and I owned it for about 6 months before I upgraded, but I was a very quick study. Going from a T3i to a T4i, I was very annoyed with the new touch controls. I felt like I was in less control of what I was doing. 

I know you said you were an amateur amateur, but if you know how to use your XSi comfortably then I think the T4i would be a step backwards. While you can still control the T4i the same exact way as the T3i, the T4i does have more automatic functions that take you of the driver seat. If you want that, then by all means, get the T4i. If you feel like you have a comfortable command over your XSi and can shoot manual from time to time, the T4i will just be like an annoying backseat driver.


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## ishdakuteb (Jan 18, 2013)

i am one of those 7d owners and also had a chance to use t4i (friend's camera) to shoot last thanksgivin' event. i can tell you that t4i image quality and noise performace is better than both 60d and 7d. but if you are asking which one of these 3 that i am going buy, i still stick with the 7d because of build quality and easy access during shoot, etc...

yes, i can see that you have said, "I'm a very amateur amateur"... well... i do not know what to say but you must figure out how much you are loving photography and how much you are willing to spend your time and money to learn about it. if you do not have much time to spend for photography, 60d is my suggestion since you can probably find this around t4i price...

...my 2 cents


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## ashmadux (Jan 18, 2013)

Apart from the extra noise, the t4i should have better image quality than all of them. the 7d suffers from softness and too much noise. the t4i has correction data for chromatic aberrations and such that neither the 7d nor 60d have (if im not mistaken). The t4i was found to have a much sharper image than those others as well. (thus, more noise)

The xsi was well renowned for its pixel level sharpness. I still reach for it when i need razor sharp pic, though the metering is very old hat and can be an image detriment compared to t2i (especially) and up.

see the sharpness comparison tool here- its pretty dramatic.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=458&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=458&FLIComp=0&APIComp=6&Camera=474&CameraComp=474&Sample=0&SampleComp=0


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## greger (Jan 19, 2013)

This link might be helpful.

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-Rebel-T4i-vs-Canon_EOS_7D

I bought the 7D, which I love. I didn't want to replace my Compact Flash Cards and I like the AFMA feature even though all my lenses work just fine.


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## wellfedCanuck (Jan 19, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > Not that the 60D is one- but if you just need a decent car- a Hyundai will do- don't let someone upsell you to a Cadillac. If you plan on building a hotrod, entering car shows or going on rallys- buy a Chevy, Corvette or Range Rover.
> ...


The 60D isn't a Cadillac. It's just a Hyundai with cruise control and power seats.


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## FatDaddyJones (Jan 19, 2013)

I've got a 5D mark III and a 7D, and I just got my hands on a T4i today. It's an awesome little machine. I recommended it to a friend to get as a first DSLR, and my dad is considering buying one too. For a hobbyist shooter, I think it's a great camera, with intuitive controls and lots of great features, like the ability to tap-to-focus on the touch screen. Sure there are cameras that can push a little farther here and there, but for the above average shooter - this thing blows most cameras away and is more than sufficient. When buying, ask yourself what you want, what you need, and what are you willing to pay. If you need ruggedness and 8fps, go for the 7D. If you need video AF and user-friendly interface, I recommend the T4i. Don't sell this camera short. It's a great piece of equipment. If you're really itching to upgrade from the Rebel line, save up for a full frame camera like the 6D or 5D3. ( just my two cents).


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## Marsu42 (Jan 19, 2013)

FatDaddyJones said:


> If you need ruggedness and 8fps, go for the 7D. If you need video AF and user-friendly interface, I recommend the T4i. Don't sell this camera short. It's a great piece of equipment.



I don't doubt that, but as personal advice to a friend I'd also recommend to have a look at the now very cheap 60D if you don't need the 650d video af/touchscreen or the 7d fps or af spread - the 60d has a good mix of usability and features.


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## LANA (Feb 18, 2013)

This comparison might be useful for you
http://t4ivst3i.com/canon-rebel-eos-t4i-vs-60d-comparison /


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## Hobby Shooter (Feb 18, 2013)

Rocguy said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > Not that the 60D is one- but if you just need a decent car- a Hyundai will do- don't let someone upsell you to a Cadillac. If you plan on building a hotrod, entering car shows or going on rallys- buy a Chevy, Corvette or Range Rover.
> ...


No offense, but anything is better than a used American car.


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