# What's Next From Canon, NAB and Beyond



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 6, 2015)

```
While the announcements today had some positives and a big glaring negative (someone please explain their mirrorless strategy to me), Canon is far from done in 2015 and we’ll see a host of new products in the coming months.</p>
<p><strong>EF Lenses

</strong>We’re going to see a new 50 f/1.8 STM soon, as well as a new 70-300 non-L, non-DO lens. We don’t know exactly when they’re coming, but we’re told they definitely are. There are no other lenses we’ve been told about that are imminent. I wish someone would say 35L :)</p>
<p><strong>EOS Cameras

</strong>We haven’t heard anything definitive about what EOS camera would be coming next. The obvious choices are an EOS-1D X Mark II and an EOS 5D Mark IV. In case you were wondering, we haven’t heard anything about a replacement for the EOS-1D C.</p>
<p><strong>Cinema EOS

</strong>NAB is in April, and we’re told Canon will be making it a major announcement show this year. We’re told the Cinema EOS C300 will get a replacement and that it will shoot 4K. We haven’t received the same confirmation about an EOS C500 replacement. We’re also told there’s a chance Canon shows a new style of Cinema EOS camera, which would become the flagship and compete directly with the Arri Alexa.</p>
<p>I suspect there will be a lens or two announced, though we haven’t heard anything.</p>
<p><strong>Other Video Products at NAB

</strong>We’re told that Canon will announce a GH4 competitor for NAB. It will be some kind of 4K ILC camera, we’ve heard the camera will have swappable parts, such as the grip and the viewfinder. We have no information on what lens mount it would be. We are told that it’s an “entry level” cinema product.</p>
<p>We’re also told a fixed lens Cinema EOS C100 style camera is coming and could be called the XC-10 (this could change), and that it will shoot 4K. Since it will have a fixed lens, I doubt it’s part of the Cinema EOS family.</p>
<p>We will be at NAB this year and hope to bring some fresh content with a few partners.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Dave Del Real (Feb 6, 2015)

What the heck is a 4K ILC camera?


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## timothetoad (Feb 6, 2015)

Dave Del Real said:


> What the heck is a 4K ILC camera?



Mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera. As the article said, a camera that competes against the GH4.


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## Orangutan (Feb 6, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How about Canon produce a camera with IQ comparable to that of Sony/Nikon?
> 
> Or is that too much to ask?



Why would they expend valuable resources on R&D for that without a compelling market need?


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## unfocused (Feb 6, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How about Canon produce a camera with IQ comparable to that of Sony/Nikon?
> 
> Or is that too much to ask?



Okay, you can go back down to the basement now and finish your World of Warcraft game. Mom will call you when supper is ready.


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## cnardo (Feb 6, 2015)

You know...the SL1 is not a bad substitute for the EOS M series.... what the latest rumors about an SL1 upgrade to an SL2 ? ???


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## bornshooter (Feb 6, 2015)

IMO there will be no 1dx replacement until late 2016.


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## unfocused (Feb 6, 2015)

cnardo said:


> You know...the SL1 is not a bad substitute for the EOS M series.... what the latest rumors about an SL1 upgrade to an SL2 ? ???



Yes. I'd love to see a SL1 with the 70D sensor and better autofocus.


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## bcflood (Feb 6, 2015)

I am curious now that the new Rebels have been fully announced what the future of the xxD is going to be. I wonder if there will be a 80D announcement this year, especially with Nikon bringing out at D7200 this year. I guess it depends on the reviews of the T6s and how good its new sensor turns out to be.


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## cnardo (Feb 6, 2015)

unfocused said:


> cnardo said:
> 
> 
> > You know...the SL1 is not a bad substitute for the EOS M series.... what the latest rumors about an SL1 upgrade to an SL2 ? ???
> ...



+1 and combined with more Pancake lens offerings


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## greenapol (Feb 6, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How about Canon produce a camera with IQ comparable to that of Sony/Nikon?
> 
> Or is that too much to ask?



Why are you begging Canon to have a camera comparable to sony or nikon? If you think sony or nikon have better cameras just move on and make the switch! Go buy a sony or nikon! LoL  ;D


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## SpartanII (Feb 6, 2015)

cnardo said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > cnardo said:
> ...



+2 Yes please. A pancake offering beyond the 50mm focal length range with the low, low price around $170-190. (60mm or a 70mm f/2.0)


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## Dylan777 (Feb 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How about Canon produce a camera with IQ comparable to that of Sony/Nikon?
> 
> Or is that too much to ask?



Be nice dilbert  

I might not happy with Canon mirrorless, however, Canon DSLR is hard to beat. While others asking for better sensor, I'm satisfied with 1Dx + 24-70 + 70-200 + 200 f2 + 400 f2.8 IS II.


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## Alejandro (Feb 7, 2015)

I'd say they are going to announce a new 6D in october, along with a new 1DX indeed only if that global shutter rumor is true, if not, 1DX II on feb 2016.


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## dak723 (Feb 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> How about Canon produce a camera with IQ comparable to that of Sony/Nikon?
> 
> Or is that too much to ask?



How about you not ruin every thread on CR with your endless complaining? Or is that too much too ask?


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## SpartanII (Feb 7, 2015)

Alejandro said:


> I'd say they are going to announce a new 6D in october, along with a new 1DX indeed only if that global shutter rumor is true, if not, 1DX II on feb 2016.



I'd bet money on a 2016 release.


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## sjp010 (Feb 7, 2015)

Canon's still trying to figure out how to make a 35LII that's better enough than the Sigma 35 to warrant two times the price. I think Canon had one set to release two years ago and Sigma caught them with their pants down.


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## tcmatthews (Feb 7, 2015)

SpartanII said:


> Alejandro said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say they are going to announce a new 6D in october, along with a new 1DX indeed only if that global shutter rumor is true, if not, 1DX II on feb 2016.
> ...


I have my bet on a Spring 2016 release of a 5d IV. I do not think that a 6D II will come before that. More likely the 6D II will come in fall of 2016. I not going to make bets on a new 1DX. I am not really interested in 1D bodies.


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## dash2k8 (Feb 7, 2015)

"We’re also told there’s a chance Canon shows a new style of Cinema EOS camera, which would become the flagship and compete directly with the Arri Alexa."

It's disheartening for me personally that Canon is nearly abandoning the lower video market in favor of Hollywood-level equipment. I know it's much too late to bemoan the fact that they didn't push the video market that they accidentally created with the 5D2, but I still wish they at least maintained some level of respectability. The a7s and GH4 simply blow away the 5D3 in video performance (and the fact that the GH4 is a crop camera adds salt to the wound). I am praying/hoping/pleading that the 5D4 will at least give me "respectable" video performance so that I can use all my Canon L lenses (and a few Sigma Art's). That's the only advantage left for Canon in the lower video market.


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## Mitch.Conner (Feb 7, 2015)

Given that Nikon might be releasing a 24-70/2.8 VR alongside the D5 I'm hoping we also see a Canon EF 24-70/2.8 IS this year alongside the 5d4 or a 1dx2 if it is also released this year.


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## Adelino (Feb 7, 2015)

I want to see a full frame version of a 70D. Maybe up around 30MP or so. I really want an amateur level full frame from Canon. Even with a built in flash.


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## Machaon (Feb 7, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> I have my bet on a Spring 2016 release of a 5d IV.



Nooooo! Mendoza!







Please let it be the rumoured August 2015 announcement!


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## expatinasia (Feb 7, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We haven’t heard anything definitive about what EOS camera would be coming next. The obvious choices are an EOS-1D X Mark II and an EOS 5D Mark IV.



The 1D X is the most amazing camera I have ever handled, and I will never forget the first serious shot I took with it. A "wow" moment. Can it be improved? Sure, but enough to make it a 1D X Mark II? Mmm, perhaps we should wait a little longer. Yes, I know they could improve this and that, make changes here and there, but are those tweaks enough for a Mark II?

Ironically, from a business perspective, I would never have bought a 1D X if the 1D C had been at the price it is today. I would have bought the 1D C.

I do both stills and video etc. but the 1D C was double the price of a 1D X at that time, and I never felt that the 1D C was worth double.

I have also wanted Canon to release a serious competitor to the Sony RX 100 or the RX 1, or even an action camera that competes with the GoPro 4 (Black or Silver).

Can they do this?


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## Marsu42 (Feb 7, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> I wish someone would say 35L



I wouldn't consider myself to be an obsessive Canon basher, but the lack of an update of the 35L (like 24L2) or the current 50mm lineup - including the stm - is pathetic. Imho it simply shows Canon isn't interested in their famed "system" if they don't see enough immediate return of invest for "updating" a lens.


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 7, 2015)

If they are planning a camera to take on the Arri Alexa it better not follow the lines of the C300 / C500. The Alexa works and been so successful because Arri worked on simplicity, a gradual roll-out of well executed firmware upgrades, recording upgrades and addressing open gate for anamorphic lenses something both Sony and Canon failed in. 

Arri have some "surprises" themselves for NAB they will not give up the top spot in Cinematography easily and Canon have yet to have a track record at the top end of the market. 

The C300 in particular has been successful at a certain level but that level is a few rungs down from the top.


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## Khnnielsen (Feb 7, 2015)

As one of the video-guys this rumour offer a little sliver of hope that Canon will finally do something good for the lower-end video market.

A C300 with 4k is just Canon trying to catch up, so that doesn't get me excited. The C500 and the proposed Arri Alexa styled camera is out of my league unless my boss decide that the news should look like feature films......

On the other hand it would be very interesting to see if Canon actually tries to make a GH4 competitor. A cool little multi-media camera with 4k could maybe convince me to use Canon for video again.


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## Bengt Nyman (Feb 7, 2015)

You asked for an explanation of Canons mirrorless strategy.
Here is my guess:

Canon's mirrorless cool might be right after all.
The opposite is represented by a misleading and trashy rumor site which claims that Sony is aiming to become the king of cameras.
Sony's real ambition is to remain the world leading supplier of image sensors, not cameras or lenses.
Sonyalpharumors has in its ambition the earn provision on Sony sales misled the public to believe something else. The result is a large number of disappointed buyers with excellent but short run, experimental Sony cameras and unrealistic expectations.

The delay of the final, ultimate, mirrorless FF camera is caused by three factors:
1. Many photographers still prefer the clear, live view offered by an optical view finder.
2. Ultra fast PD auto focus also benefits from the above.
3. The ultimate mirrorless FF camera will have a flange distance between 22 and 26 mm which requires a full range of new, high resolution lenses and new lens mounts.

The emergence of a professional, FF mirrorless camera system will consequently take some time, giving both Canon and Nikon plenty of time to adjust to the shrinking reality of the dedicated, single purpose camera industry.


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## PureClassA (Feb 7, 2015)

Where to begin!?

Excited to see what they debut at NAB. Confused by their mirrorless strategy as well, but I still see a TON of Mom-tographers out there in the suburbs and they love running around with their "pro looking" DSLRs. Obviously this trend doesn't hold up in other countries, but it sure does here. I don't why that would preclude the offering of the M3 here, but I'd fathom Canon just picked one (the Rebels) over the other to stick with as a pure marketing decision.

YES! Please come up with a GH4 competitor (but FF please, like a7s). And the Rumor said ILC .... not MILC. So it is an Interchangeable Lens Camera, but not necessarily Mirrorless. Frankly, I'd rather not be mirrorless, or at least if it is mirrorless, make it the regular EF mount and not the M mount. I'd guess it's just a matter of distancing the sensor properly to match the depth of a normal DSLR. I just don't want to be stuck with M glass and sticking on adapters and so forth.

And there's no news on a 1DC replacement cuz there won't be one. Might have made sense 2-3 years ago but not now. A 1DX2 is the only thing that needs to occupy that price space with 4K firmware internally. A 1DC is nothing more than that anyway.

New C300? Uhh... Ok. Is it still gonna cost $15k or does Canon want to get serious and make it under $10k to compete with the popular Sony FS7? Or does the C100 get 4k this year and stay at $5000?

And I would LOVE to see what sort of cinema monster Canon comes up with to go against ARRI. 

And Glass! Yes! the 24-70 IS f 2.8 L .... that would be THE perfect lens to release with a a 5D4 wedding camera in the summer.


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## Lee Jay (Feb 7, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > I wish someone would say 35L
> ...



The 35L is spectacular. It's never failed to impress me. The 50/1.8 and 50/1.4 are lousy and mediocre respectively. There is no pressing need to update the 35L in my opinion.


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## Lee Jay (Feb 7, 2015)

I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does. I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out. I was hoping they would be the ones released yesterday instead of the crippled 5Ds and stupid 5Dr.


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## Orangutan (Feb 7, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does. I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out. I was hoping they would be the ones released yesterday instead of the crippled 5Ds and stupid 5Dr.


I think the fact that CPUs can be evaluated on a very few qualities, combined with Intel's market dominance, makes this possible. To give away that much market intelligence to competitors in the DSLR market would be a huge problem.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 7, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does. I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out.



Sonikon would like to know that, too :->.

My impression is that Canon doesn't have a roadmap, but rather tries to squeeze out as much $$$ from their current products until they're forced by the competition to do something about it. Sure enough they'll have the basic designs for 5d4 and 6d2 in the r&d pipeline, but there'll be a lot of last-minute shuffling around concerning exact release date and software/hardware features.


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## Orangutan (Feb 7, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does. I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out.
> ...


My take is similar: I think they work on options for different components on long lead times. They might drop a new sensor or AF system into an existing body and send it out with a small number of trusted people, but that's to test the new tech, not the system. About 12-18 months before expected release, they try to get a feel for the competition and market, and use that to fashion a small number of prototypes for wider use. I don't think they have a true roadmap, even internally.

This is pure speculation.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 7, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> This is pure speculation.



Sure, but some snippets substantiates it a bit.

With the 6d, they had to rush to counter the Nikon d600, so they probably used a 11pt af system that they had in the drawer for the 5d3 before they trickled down the 1dx system instead. And the 6d actually can do 1/8000 (ML proved it), but the Canon firmware has a safeguard to immediately override it. The other way 'round, the 5d3 seems to have a gps connector on the board, but they didn't use it.

And of course there's Canon's favorite playground: Crippling the firmware. No ends of features that camera body x has, but not y - they can change this in the last minute before release.


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## Orangutan (Feb 7, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > This is pure speculation.
> ...


In that case, You Go Nikon!



> And the 6d actually can do 1/8000 (ML proved it), but the Canon firmware has a safeguard to immediately override it. The other way 'round, the 5d3 seems to have a gps connector on the board, but they didn't use it.
> 
> And of course there's Canon's favorite playground: Crippling the firmware. No ends of features that camera body x has, but not y - they can change this in the last minute before release.



Interesting, I'm not surprised.


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## cosmopotter (Feb 7, 2015)

A 4K ILC at NAB screams of the 5D MK IV with 4K capability. Everyone always thinks Canon is going to do something revolutionary but they never do (3D anyone?). Canon likes evolutionary steps and a new 4K capable 5D would fit with an announcement at NAB.


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 7, 2015)

NAB is not really the place to launch the 5d MKIV even if it does have 4K its not a broadcast camera in the true sense of the word.
I would image Canon would want the focus on there Cinema EOS cameras & lenses otherwise it will dilute its focus.


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## Orangutan (Feb 7, 2015)

cosmopotter said:


> Everyone always thinks Canon is going to do something revolutionary but they never do (3D anyone?)



Aren't the new 5Ds bodies pretty much what was supposed to be called a "3D?" It was supposed to be a high-MP studio/landscape camera, and that's what was just announced.


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## SoullessPolack (Feb 7, 2015)

cosmopotter said:


> A 4K ILC at NAB screams of the 5D MK IV with 4K capability. Everyone always thinks Canon is going to do something revolutionary but they never do (3D anyone?). Canon likes evolutionary steps and a new 4K capable 5D would fit with an announcement at NAB.



Rofl! Good laughs.

The 3D thing was never mentioned by Canon. It is a completely made up thing by people on here who translate their hopes into a rumored, but non-existant camera. 

Second, did you miss the 5Ds and 5Ds R announcements? That's precisely what everyone was hoping a "3D" was. Now we have it. Now we still have tards like you complaining.


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## Orangutan (Feb 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



Hmmm...if you run across one of those publicized roadmaps, please post a link.


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## Orangutan (Feb 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


Since I don't spend any time at sonyalpharumors I have no opinion on the matter. It wouldn't surprise me either way.


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## Bob Howland (Feb 8, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> someone please explain their mirrorless strategy to me



I'd love to, just as soon as I figure it out. It's almost as if they are deliberately trying to screw it up.


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## Tugela (Feb 8, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does. I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out.
> ...



They were forced by competition over two years ago, but so far have not done anything about it, nor are they showing any signs of doing anything about it. A while back Canon executives were giving interviews claiming that they were going to take DSLR video "seriously", but that didn't happen. We got the 7D2 instead. What a joke - apparently their executives failed to communicate their new direction to their engineers. Last year they claimed that they were going to take mirrorless "seriously", and what did we get? That joke of a camera, the M3. And that is supposed to compete against the A7000 and NX500??? Really??? Do they think we are that stupid? (ok, some Canikons are, and will believe anything)

What they need to stop doing is telling us that they are going to get serious when it is clearly obvious that they either don't want to, or are incapable of doing so, so they tell us all this BS to keep us from leaving them because things are going to all be better "soon".


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## Orangutan (Feb 8, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...


How so? Are they losing market share, or merely losing bench-test bragging rights?



> We got the 7D2 instead. What a joke - apparently their executives failed to communicate their new direction to their engineers.


Yes, instead of doing what they were told, the engineers made a product that's getting solid reviews, and selling faster than they can make it.


> Last year they claimed that they were going to take mirrorless "seriously"


Do you expect Canon to custom-build a mirrorless camera to your specifications? It's more likely they'll build one that they expect to sell broadly.


> the M3. And that is supposed to compete against the A7000 and NX500


Says who? Maybe they're going for a different segment of the mirrorless market.


> What they need to stop doing is


What they really need to do is continue to be a solidly profitable company. Making a "killer" mirrorless that's not profitable is not a strategy for corporate success.

This bears repeating for the thousandth time: *Canon is a for-profit business*. They do not sell products for bragging rights or artistic reasons; rather, they sell products to make a profit. Buy or don't; forum rants will not convince competent corporate employees to deviate from their best professional judgement.


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## vtzifnab (Feb 8, 2015)

I for one would really like to see the updates to the 45 and 90 ts-e to L status. With the arrival of the 5Ds I would imagine that the aged lenses will not be up to par. For my architectural work it is a must. If they show up then I'll spend the 10k for the camera and the lenses ASAP. Take my money Canon.


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## DominoDude (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm still holding my hope up for the EF 1200mm f/4 Pancake lens. The one that comes with fine print saying: "Will work if sufficiently close to a black hole to help you bend the light."


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## Tugela (Feb 9, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Wrong on so many levels.

1. The competition overtook Canon at least three years ago. They should have reacted then. They did not. What they did was *say* they were going to react, but then did *nothing*. Pretty much everything they have released in the last 3 years has been rewrapped old products with a few newer odds and ends added in. 

2. You missed the point completely. They claimed that they were going to put greater emphasis on *video*, since that was were the market was heading. And where are the products to back this up? *Crickets*. The consumer cameras have not evolved at all in this respect. The 7D2 may be well reviewed as a still camera, but as a video camera it is at the back of the pack in the prosumer market space. It did not advance on the 70D, and in many respects it is a regression. Pretty much every other leading manufacturer has much better video functions in their consumer cameras. Even Nikon does. Remember, Canon executives claimed that they were putting increased emphasis on *video*. Let me repeat that, *video*. Where the hell is it? This is a function that is important in their consumer camera market but is still stuck in way the past. The 2015 models are largely out and they still have 2012 functionality. What the engineers are producing is not what the executives are claiming is their future focus. Either they are not communicating with each other, or we are being sold a marketing line to get us not to jump ship.

3. I don't expect Canon to custom build mirrorless to my specifications, but I do expect them to do what they say they are going to do. The mirrorless cameras which sell broadly are not Canons - that market is dominated by the likes of Sony and others. The Canon M series was a failure in the market space. The only way they could sell any sort of quantity was by bargain basement pricing it. The M3 is not going to change this because it clearly has the same faults as the M1 - it has outdated technology in a space where market is evolving at an annual pace and it is not keeping up.

4. The A7000 is not out yet, but the A6000 is and is a much better system than the M. The A7000 will improve on that. Given Sony's recent history in cameras, it will take things to a new level. The NX500 will have most of the capability of NX1. The M3 won't stand a chance against those two cameras in head to head comparisons. That is the competitive landscape it will have to sell into. It is the reason why they won't sell the thing in North America, they know they won't stand a chance there because in that particular market those sorts of cameras sell mostly to enthusiasts who are not locked into glass, and consequently will buy on performance, not the brand name on the face plate. The only thing the M3 will replace is the M1 in the bargain bin.

5. Canon might be a profitable company, but their sales are driven by (A) their brand name, and (B) space on shelves. Both of those however are derived from historical factors, not current factors. A company can trade on that for only so long. If they don't keep up with the fore front of technology in time it will be someone else's brand that gets recognized as "good" even though it isn't so much any more, and someone else that will have that shelf space. Ever heard of Xerox, or Kodak, or Nokia, or Research in Motion? All one time leaders in their fields who didn't recognize where technology was going and allowed competition to take the initiative. That is what is going to happen to Canon if they don't start delivering.


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 9, 2015)

The three higher echelon markets for digital cinematography are movie (ones with budgets of $ 1M), TV Drama and TV commercials. The majority of this business never even considers a DSLR unless its used in a dangerous positions or confined spaces. 
The BBC have a minimum data rate of 50 Mb/s and most cameras are 100 Mp/s or higher the Sony FS7 for instance is up to 400 Mb/s read & 350 Mb/s write and can record 4K / 2K in 12bit. Even then this camera is viewed as lower end with the Sony F55 and Sony F65 well ahead up the tree. 

The digital video market from a content point of view is vast so obviously tools of different abilities and price points reflect that but first & foremost NAB is a professional broadcast showcase and mirrorless CSCs with 4K are not the stable diet its where people want to see how advanced NHK are with 8K, what cameras now impliment Rec. 2020 color space, improvements in compression, new high performance optics that will resolve 8K. 

The fact that Arri have been so successful with the Alexa which is 3.4K in its latest offerings reflects their understanding of colorimagery, workflow and use in the field. The biggest frustration of Sony & Canon is the over-complicated menues most of which are not required on-set, form factor and a 16x9 sensor. (with open gate if shoting 16x9 you have the ability to re-frame to a degree in post). The Amira using essentially the same sensor as the Alexa has been designed more as a hand-held camera for documentory but retains the Alexa simplicity. Another factor has been Arri working with Codex at the design stage of Alexa upgrades and not Codex trying to adopt its product as was the case for Sony & Canon. With the Amira Arri adopted the CF.2 card system on-board (the first to do so) and would have learned from the original 16X9 Alexa adoption of Sony SxS cards. 

If Canon do have an "Alexa Killer" at NAB it will not be enough to be just another 4K camera like the C500.


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## Orangutan (Feb 9, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Wrong on so many levels.


We will have to disagree, then. 



> 1. The competition overtook Canon at least three years ago.


Since you don't say what you mean by "overtake" I'll have to assume you mean they overtook Canon product capabilities. I'll take your word for it, but it's irrelevant. As I said above, Canon is a for-profit business, and appears to be at/near the top of profitability in DSLRs. This has not changed despite your assertion that their capabilities were overtaken years ago. Canon's line continues to sell well at high prices. Canon will take profitability over capability any day.




> What they did was *say* they were going to react, but then did *nothing*.


Why are you surprised by marketing hype? No sane business will adhere to its previous marketing hype if it determines that the market has changed. Canon will take profit over rigid promises and roadmaps any day. 



> Pretty much everything they have released in the last 3 years has been rewrapped old products with a few newer odds and ends added in.


Which the market continues to devour at profitable prices. What sane business would cook the old hens before they've stopped laying eggs? This is good business.



> 2. You missed the point completely. They claimed that they were going to put greater emphasis on *video*, since that was were the market was heading.


I didn't miss it, I consider it irrelevant. They judged profit to lie in another direction. Sound business. Again, don't rely on old marketing hype.



> The 7D2 may be well reviewed as a still camera, but as a video camera it is at the back of the pack in the prosumer market space.


To Canon, all that matters is that it's a profitable product. Canon corporate doesn't care whether the video is good or not, they just care if it makes them a profit. On that criterion, it appears to be doing exceptionally well.



> Pretty much every other leading manufacturer has much better video functions in their consumer cameras. Even Nikon does.


How are the profits of those companies? Not as good as Canon's, I think.



> Remember, Canon executives claimed that they were putting increased emphasis on *video*. Let me repeat that, *video*.


Let me repeat that, *profit*. The profit motive supersedes all prior marketing claims.



> Where the hell is it?


It was replaced by "profit" in their strategic plan.



> This is a function that is important in their consumer camera market but is still stuck in way the past.


If so, then why do Canon DSLRs continue to sell so well? Obviously, it's not that important, or no one would buy Canon DSLRs.



> What the engineers are producing is not what the executives are claiming is their future focus.


You can be certain the engineers produce what the execs tell them to produce, and what they've produced is profit.



> or we are being sold a marketing line


Now you get it! More specifically, most camera companies feed customers a marketing line. You don't know what you're really going to get until the specs are announced. Why should this be a surprise.



> but I do expect them to do what they say they are going to do.


Perhaps you should stop expecting that.



> The mirrorless cameras which sell broadly are not Canons


In the US and Europe you are correct. I believe in Asia Canon does well in mirrorless. I believe Neuro posted figures a while back, but I don't recall the specifics.



> The Canon M series was a failure in the market space. The only way they could sell any sort of quantity was by bargain basement pricing it.


Except in Asia, where it sold near the top of the lists, and was never subject to price cutting.



> Given Sony's recent history in cameras, it will take things to a new level.


And possibly to a new level of unprofitability. Sony puts out great tech, but apparently their cameras (as a total product) aren't that great, since they don't seem to be stealing a lot of profit from Canon...or even Nikon.



> The NX500 will have most of the capability of NX1.


Profitability is more important than capability.



> 5. Canon might be a profitable company,


Can pretty much stop right here.



> If they don't keep up with the fore front of technology in time it will be someone else's brand that gets recognized


3 years, apparently, is not enough time for that to happen.



> Ever heard of Xerox, or Kodak, or Nokia, or Research in Motion?...That is what is going to happen to Canon if they don't start delivering.


Could happen, no signs of it yet.

The tl;dr answer is:


Profitability is more important than capability
Canon's doing a good job of market anticipation so far, with the notable exception of the M in the US and Europe.
Regards,
Orangutan


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## cosmopotter (Feb 9, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> NAB is not really the place to launch the 5d MKIV even if it does have 4K its not a broadcast camera in the true sense of the word.
> I would image Canon would want the focus on there Cinema EOS cameras & lenses otherwise it will dilute its focus.



I agree that NAB is not traditionally the place for the launch of a DSLR, but there is history to support it and a case for it. First of all, the 5D Mk III was launched in March of 2012 on the 25th anniversary of the first EOS camera release. NAB is the week of April 12, so it's not far off of that. The March date is otherwise unnoteworthy so I doubt they will launch on the 28th anniversary of EOS. The first notable show AFTER the march anniversary is NAB. If the 5D Mk IV does indeed include 4K video, it would give Canon a reason to launch it during NAB. I'm not saying I believe it will happen 100%, I'm just saying there is a chance of it with good reason. Otherwise, they will probably launch in the summer after retailers have had a chance to clear some Mark III inventory.


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## cosmopotter (Feb 9, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> cosmopotter said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone always thinks Canon is going to do something revolutionary but they never do (3D anyone?)
> ...



Yes, but my point was that they didn't launch some crazy new camera called the 3D. Instead, they took what they had and adapted it into a practical 50MP camera and named it as a modified version of a current product. If you go back and read the old info on the 3D, the only thing that was correct was the high MP sensor. It didn't go into a 1D style body, video features are limited and so on.


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## cosmopotter (Feb 9, 2015)

"To Canon, all that matters is that it's a profitable product. Canon corporate doesn't care whether the video is good or not, they just care if it makes them a profit. On that criterion, it appears to be doing exceptionally well."

You're getting a little carried away with the "profit and nothing else" idea. I work for a Japanese electronics company and I work with Canon (I will be at NAB with both) and I have worked for several Japanese electronics companies over the last 20 years. Yes, profit is very important to these companies and yes, annoyingly so sometimes. BUT the Japanese are also very proud of what they do and what they make and DO want to make the best products they can, they are just conservative by nature. Companies like Canon (and the one I work for) can be annoyingly slow to change, but due to their enormous resources they continue to move forward their product lines because ultimately you have to have something new to sell to keep your customers coming back. They also occasionally hit one out of the park which blows everyone away. I think these occasional homeruns raise expectations among some consumers just as they do for Apple. When I was a Product Manager at Panasonic I would sit in a monthly forecast meeting with Accounting on one side and Sales on the other - Accounting would say "less inventory and higher margins". Sales would say "higher inventory and lower margins" and I (we in marketing) would have to find the balance AND communicate what the market wants to Japan. It is not easy to influence product change, let me tell you. I invented Apple CarPlay in 2008! I literally sent a picture to Japan with the display of an iPhone pasted over a car stereo. Do you think they listened? Obviously I'm kidding about inventing it (don't want to be sued by Apple) but I really did send that picture 6 years ago.

My point is that yes, profit is very important but the products are important too. The people who work for Canon navigate through a very difficult process to make this stuff. AND in answer to the guy talking about Intel's development plan: Canon has a 5 year plan, they just aren't telling us about it. I have one from Japan for my products and I'm not telling either!


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## Orangutan (Feb 9, 2015)

cosmopotter said:


> "To Canon, all that matters is that it's a profitable product. Canon corporate doesn't care whether the video is good or not, they just care if it makes them a profit. On that criterion, it appears to be doing exceptionally well."
> 
> You're getting a little carried away with the "profit and nothing else" idea. I work for a Japanese electronics company and I work with Canon (I will be at NAB with both) and I have worked for several Japanese electronics companies over the last 20 years. Yes, profit is very important to these companies and yes, annoyingly so sometimes. BUT the Japanese are also very proud of what they do and what they make and DO want to make the best products they can, they are just conservative by nature. Companies like Canon (and the one I work for) can be annoyingly slow to change, but due to their enormous resources they continue to move forward their product lines because ultimately you have to have something new to sell to keep your customers coming back. They also occasionally hit one out of the park which blows everyone away. I think these occasional homeruns raise expectations among some consumers just as they do for Apple. When I was a Product Manager at Panasonic I would sit in a monthly forecast meeting with Accounting on one side and Sales on the other - Accounting would say "less inventory and higher margins". Sales would say "higher inventory and lower margins" and I (we in marketing) would have to find the balance AND communicate what the market wants to Japan. It is not easy to influence product change, let me tell you. I invented Apple CarPlay in 2008! I literally sent a picture to Japan with the display of an iPhone pasted over a car stereo. Do you think they listened? Obviously I'm kidding about inventing it (don't want to be sued by Apple) but I really did send that picture 6 years ago.
> 
> My point is that yes, profit is very important but the products are important too. The people who work for Canon navigate through a very difficult process to make this stuff. AND in answer to the guy talking about Intel's development plan: Canon has a 5 year plan, they just aren't telling us about it. I have one from Japan for my products and I'm not telling either!



I'll defer to your greater knowledge on that topic. My over-emphasis on profit was a rhetorical device to help remind people that these are not art works to be juried, but products to create profit. I'm sure everyone in the company wants to make good products, but there are many ways to judge a good DSLR product: reliability, durability, lens and accessory lines, etc. Having the best sensor or the best video may be legitimate criteria, but they are not the only two legitimate criteria.


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## cosmopotter (Feb 9, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> cosmopotter said:
> 
> 
> > "To Canon, all that matters is that it's a profitable product. Canon corporate doesn't care whether the video is good or not, they just care if it makes them a profit. On that criterion, it appears to be doing exceptionally well."
> ...



Absolutely correct. They are by no means easy to work with/for but there is no doubt that making a profit is one of the most important factors. 

The 5Ds and 5DsR seem like quite niche products but they wouldn't have created them if they couldn't make a profit on them. The takeaway from the release of these two new cameras is that the 5D Mk IV is going to look just like these - no flip out screen, no pop up flash, etc. The economies of making ONE body and adapting it to 3 cameras are quite obvious.


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## Diko (Feb 9, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> </strong>NAB is in April, and we’re told Canon will be making it a major announcement show this year. We’re told the Cinema EOS C300 will get a replacement and that it will shoot 4K. We haven’t received the same confirmation about an EOS C500 replacement. We’re also told there’s a chance Canon shows a new style of Cinema EOS camera, which would become _*the flagship and compete directly with the Arri Alexa*_.</p>



I would love to see *Canon* fight this:
*Alexa 65* - APS-C Medium Format Sensor 65mm with res of 6.5K and output 4:4:4 Pure Digital Goodness for rental ONLY!








Lee Jay said:


> I really wish Canon would put out a roadmap like Intel does. I'd like to know when the 5DIV and 6DII will be coming out. I was hoping they would be the ones released yesterday instead of the crippled 5Ds and stupid 5Dr.


Have you forgotten this?


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## Marsu42 (Feb 9, 2015)

Diko said:


> Have you forgotten this?



This isn't a roadmap, it's the stratification of current products. This is at least roadmap-like, though it doesn't include specific products:


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 9, 2015)

Diko said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > </strong>NAB is in April, and we’re told Canon will be making it a major announcement show this year. We’re told the Cinema EOS C300 will get a replacement and that it will shoot 4K. We haven’t received the same confirmation about an EOS C500 replacement. We’re also told there’s a chance Canon shows a new style of Cinema EOS camera, which would become _*the flagship and compete directly with the Arri Alexa*_.</p>
> ...



The Alexa 65MM camera houses a super-stitched version of the regular Alexa sensor and as with the Alexa XT turns to Codex for recording medium. Both Panavision and Arri are viewing 65/70mm as an alternative to 3D for studios to deploy to keep a better quality out-of-home experience at the theatre.


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## kobeson (Feb 10, 2015)

Heard from someone I buy from say her Canon rep heard 5D4 August, 1DX2 October.

He's in Japan at the moment, and said that was the inside word over there - unsure how reliable it is though. Just thought I'd share.


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## PureClassA (Feb 10, 2015)

kobeson said:


> Heard from someone I buy from say her Canon rep heard 5D4 August, 1DX2 October.
> 
> He's in Japan at the moment, and said that was the inside word over there - unsure how reliable it is though. Just thought I'd share.



Thanks! And that's precisely what this site is for ;D


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## Machaon (Feb 11, 2015)

kobeson said:


> Heard from someone I buy from say her Canon rep heard 5D4 August...



That agrees with the information received by Northlight's Keith Cooper.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d4.html

However, rather than independent confirmation it could just be the same rumour doing the rounds of the Internet.


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