# Beginning of a new Canon starting with 7D Mk II?



## northbyten (Jun 11, 2013)

Canon has definitely stretched the limits of their current tech, reading all the reviews feels similar in all aspects (hell the 700D is barely a refresh!)

I just feel like it's getting stale and the competition is definitely growing up fast (Sony RX1, Samsung NX300)
The AF on the Samsung NX300 is just ridiculous especially at that price point.

How long can Canon keep the same playbook, yeah they have a new sensor in the works and their new live view AF should be announced next month but these are higher end models while other companies are bringing it to their lower end models quite quickly and already are working on successors that should compete with Canon's new tech.

I'm awaiting to see what the 7D Mark II brings since that will eventually trickle down to the Rebel/EOS M series.

I guess I'm ready for an upgrade and I want to stick to Canon due to my lenses yet I'm just twiddling my thumbs while the competition looks more appealing with each announcement.


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## Menace (Jun 11, 2013)

Some interesting points - I'd like to see more advanced features such as AF in lower end bodies too.

What body do you have at present and what is lacking from Canon's current offerings that is not satisfactory for your needs. 

Cheers


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## northbyten (Jun 12, 2013)

I have a Canon 550D with a Sigma 17-70 F2.8-5.6 and Canon 50mm F1.4

Honestly, I'd be happy with a improved Canon SL1/EOS M with adapter. I don't like bulk since I shoot on the run a lot and don't need many of the features that the higher end models have.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jun 12, 2013)

northbyten said:


> I guess I'm ready for an upgrade and I want to stick to Canon due to my lenses yet I'm just twiddling my thumbs while the competition looks more appealing with each announcement.



[quote author=northbyten]
I have a Canon 550D with a Sigma 17-70 F2.8-5.6 and Canon 50mm F1.4

Honestly, I'd be happy with a improved Canon SL1/EOS M with adapter. I don't like bulk since I shoot on the run a lot and don't need many of the features that the higher end models have.

[/quote]

So, what features do you need?

The 550D is a good camera, do you feel you need more resolution? (to what end?) do you feel you need better AF? (there are options) lower noise? (again there are options)

Between the 550D, 600D and 650D the changes are absolutely incremental. I changed from a 550D to a 600D because the flip out screen is brilliant for video, and the wireless flash is very useful. Haven't felt the need to upgrade any further. Thats said, I would say my new M (Figic5) is less noisy, to the point where iso 200 is like iso 100 on my digic 4 cameras, 800 like 400, and crucially, 6400 becomes to my fickle eye, usable with a little raw tweaking.

What would you want from a 750D that your 550D isn't doing, or the 600, 650 700 aren't doing?

I agree that canon need to stay competitive and that things have moved on maybe a little faster than canon has. However there have been quite a few new lenses, and not just expensive ones, maybe thats something to explore, expand your range with a macro or telezoom, or a fast tele prime like the 85 f1.8 or 100 f2.0? When Canon does come out with something new then you'll be even better equipped to use it!

The good news is that Canon often launches new tech on the rebels, which have usually been a bit ahead of the x0d series for megapixels and things like movie mode, perhaps as this is the most competitive segment, or where the most sales are, or where the range is quickest refreshed (or a mix of all of the above) but you'll usually see the newest sensors on the rebels.

I'm just intrigued as to why you want to upgrade? Is it an itch or a need?

All the best


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## Dylan777 (Jun 12, 2013)

northbyten said:


> "I guess I'm ready for an upgrade and I want to stick to Canon due to my lenses yet"
> 
> I have a Canon 550D with a Sigma 17-70 F2.8-5.6 and Canon 50mm F1.4
> Honestly, I'd be happy with a improved Canon SL1/EOS M with adapter. I don't like bulk since I shoot on the run a lot and don't need many of the features that the higher end models have.



With that MUCH lenses, I highly recommend you to switch NOW.


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## northbyten (Jun 12, 2013)

First of all I'm a fast shooter, I move a lot and I shoot in all conditions. I've been photographing for 8 years.

The AF on my model isn't good for anything other than direct sunlight and it slows down, often still being slightly out of focus. I manually focus 90% of the time but there are times when I simply want to point and click(warranty ran out a month before AF got buggered)

I'd like a AF beam which even the NEX series has instead of using the flash strobe.

I want better colour reproduction, the photos I've seen straight out of the camera from other manufacturers is amazing instead of me having to tweak colours to appear right in post production. 

I want to downsize more than anything, something small and efficient, a interchangable lens Sony RX1 made by Canon would be my ideal camera.




Dylan777 said:


> northbyten said:
> 
> 
> > "I guess I'm ready for an upgrade and I want to stick to Canon due to my lenses yet"
> ...



?


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## paul13walnut5 (Jun 12, 2013)

Are you using live view af or viewfinder af?

Live view af is crap, except on eos m ( good in oneshot single square zone) viewfinder af good on 550d, centre af select best. Viewfinder crap for mf. Wrong focus screen, penta mirror etc...


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## JimKarczewski (Jun 12, 2013)

I want to see voice annotation on a camera other than the 1D line. Nikon does it.. THe D3/D4 etc aren't the only cameras with voice annotation. The 7DII as a "sports" camera with 10fps (rumored) should have it as well if they really want serious sports shooters using it. Now that I have annotation, I don't think I could ever use a camera without it again, it's that integral to my workflow not only for sports but for just plain old assignments. Its much easier to listen to the .wav file than to figure out "where the hell did I put that paper with that persons name????"


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## Harry Muff (Jun 12, 2013)

I was thinking the other day that it would be interesting to try the shutter button on the inside of the handgrip where your fingertips rest. A kind of squeeze to shoot configuration.


Would be nice to have a rollerball type controller instead of the joystick. Would probably make selecting and changing focus points quicker. Or even a smooth interface like the Apple Magic Mouse.


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## Jim Saunders (Jun 12, 2013)

If my $600 cellphone which fits in my pocket has GPS, wi-fi and Bluetooth the you can be g*******d sure my next SLR body (beyond the 5D2 I have) will too. There is no excuse.

Jim


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## northbyten (Jun 12, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Are you using live view af or viewfinder af?
> 
> Live view af is crap, except on eos m ( good in oneshot single square zone) viewfinder af good on 550d, centre af select best. Viewfinder crap for mf. Wrong focus screen, penta mirror etc...



nope just through viewfinder.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 12, 2013)

The 7D is a quite old model, and is out of date. But, it goes up against the high end Nikon D300S. 

I would warn you to not expect a "NEW" Canon, they will certainly have a better sensor, and there will be improvements, but they will not give you every feature that you want. 

Expect to be disappointed if you think otherwise.


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## PureAmateur (Jun 12, 2013)

Jim Saunders said:


> If my $600 cellphone which fits in my pocket has GPS, wi-fi and Bluetooth the you can be g*******d sure my next SLR body (beyond the 5D2 I have) will too. There is no excuse.
> 
> Jim



+1


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## duydaniel (Jun 12, 2013)

I heard there is a company named Nikon,
they produce cameras and lenses too.

You can check them out at www.nikon.com
cheer


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## paul13walnut5 (Jun 12, 2013)

northbyten said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you using live view af or viewfinder af?
> ...



I would say wait for a new 70d or 7d mk2.

The current 7d and 60d won't give you any better data in your images.
However the improved af systems will help you, and the pentaprism rather than penta mirror will help mf, maybe also worth fitting a katzeyes screen when available.

Do note, focus will be hypercriticsl at f1.4, and your af, edpecially away from the centre point, will not play that nice with your zoom at the far end.

I would try the cam in one shot mode, centre point select, lock af and recompose.

This should up your keepers, or reveal a fault.

For moving stuff, try centre spot af but in ai servo mode, track, track, burst, track, track, burst.

99% of 'faulty' af systems are just incorrectly set up for the task at hand.

Avoid ai focus and auto point select like you would a frisky pit-bull.


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## northbyten (Jun 12, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> I heard there is a company named Nikon,
> they produce cameras and lenses too.
> 
> You can check them out at www.nikon.com
> cheer



thank you captain.


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## CanonMan (Jun 12, 2013)

Just a thought .....

In the old days of film people like me had as much fun and enjoyment getting that great picture by different techniques that had nothing to do with software. Some of the most iconic pictures are black and white from many many years ago. The only issue of course was how long it took to process and how many pictures were not used.

How much more technolgy should cameras have before they become "boring" because they do too much for you?


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## AvTvM (Jun 12, 2013)

CanonMan said:


> How much more technolgy should cameras have before they become "boring" because they do too much for you?



well, Canon can still go a VERY long ways from my current 7D until I would find more technology and capabilities "boring". Most of it is even invented already and would be dirt cheap to implement. 

e.g.
* twice the resolution AND 3 stops better DR at all ISOs - especially at ISO 100 and up to 25600 [=Nikon D800]
* Hybrid AF with contrast and phase-AF on image sensor ... working 10x faster and more accurate, especially in tracking moving objects 
* WIFI and GPS built in 
* EX-RT radio wireless flash commander built in
* working Eye Control AF v2.0
* in-body IS working in tandem with IS lenses for a total effect of 5 or 6 stops stabilization
* invisible IR-laser AF illuminator built in
* fully functional and customizable Auto-ISO [Nikon D800]
* 2nd curtain sync for speedlights in wireless ETTL mode [Nikon]
* better batteries lasting 1000 shots ... between -10 and +40 degrees celsius 
* mirrorless FF body the size of a pack of cigarettes [Sony RX-1] with lens mount and EVF 
* "Retina"-EVF [350 dpi +] 
* a series of tiny hi-IQ, fixed focal pancake lenses between 20/2.8 and 75/2.8 IS [like 40/2.8] 
* EF-S or EF-M 50-150mm f/2.8 IS in black and half the size of a 70-200/2.8 II 
* Canon cameras without any video capability - "for stills only" at a significant price discount -25% 
* ... 

I could easily go on for 2 full pages ... without getting bored ... ever!


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## paul13walnut5 (Jun 12, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> CanonMan said:
> 
> 
> > How much more technolgy should cameras have before they become "boring" because they do too much for you?
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2013)

Would like to see a 7d MK II with AF and metering functionality from the 5d MK 3, if they can do a sensor in the 24mp APS then this will be good and match against the Sony & Nikon as well along with a decent buffer and 8fps this will be a hit.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 12, 2013)

northbyten said:


> First of all I'm a fast shooter, I move a lot and I shoot in all conditions. I've been photographing for 8 years.
> 
> The AF on my model isn't good for anything other than direct sunlight and it slows down, often still being slightly out of focus. I manually focus 90% of the time but there are times when I simply want to point and click(warranty ran out a month before AF got buggered)
> 
> ...



As an owner of RX1, color straight out from camera is flat. I'm talking about JPEG.

If you want better AF, there is 5D III + 1D X.

You mentioned you own Sigma 17-70 F2.8-5.6 and Canon 50mm F1.4, by just having 2 of these lenses why not switch to another brands to full fill your needs. Why wait for 7D II? What do you know about 7D II? Would you buy 7D II if the price tag @ 3000plus?


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## Niki (Jun 12, 2013)

I like the combination of film and digital..


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## northbyten (Jun 12, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> northbyten said:
> 
> 
> > First of all I'm a fast shooter, I move a lot and I shoot in all conditions. I've been photographing for 8 years.
> ...



The only things I know about the 7D II are the rumours that have been posted here. I don't want a 5D or 1D due to size and features I don't need, I mentioned that in my original post.

I will switch to another brand if the announcements don't meet my expectations.


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## Satya (Jun 21, 2013)

CanonMan said:


> In the old days of film people like me had as much fun and enjoyment getting that great picture by different techniques that had nothing to do with software. Some of the most iconic pictures are black and white from many many years ago...



Yes. And before that people did not even need cameras. They just painted with 'natural' colors. And that argument has been over-used. But times have changed.

I went to college (4+ miles) on bicycle. I rode my bicycle around town (20+ miles) just for fun. But times have changed. Today I drive a small car to go to Wal-Mart a couple of miles away. Couldn't I ride my bicycle to Wal-Mart? I don't care.

As Jim Saunders said, there is no excuse for shying away from technology already available, not to mention inexpensive.



AvTvM said:


> I could easily go on for 2 full pages ... without getting bored ... ever!


+1

I share the OP's frustration of not finding an affordable new model that offers the features I was looking for. I tried to move up from my XTi for past few months.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 21, 2013)

I believe canon will update the sensor tech in the 7DII. Its aps-c so it would allow them time to scale it up to a FF 5D4 sometime in the future. 

Personally, a RT module built in camera would make me consider a newer body.


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## RGF (Jun 22, 2013)

The sensor may not be strongest feature of Canon's line up, but is it the limiting factor? As long as they can improve performance by tweaking other parts of the camera, they may not work on a new sensor. Once they do, it will trickle their line up from 7D II (possible 1Dx2) down to 70/80D, and eventually to the rebel. 

I am sure that they want to keep as much common within the crop body lineup to maximum efficiencies. Differences in the bodies will be based upon electronics, not the sensor


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## AvTvM (Jun 22, 2013)

RGF said:


> The sensor may not be strongest feature of Canon's line up, but is it the limiting factor? As long as they can improve performance by tweaking other parts of the camera, they may not work on a new sensor. Once they do, it will trickle their line up from 7D II (possible 1Dx2) down to 70/80D, and eventually to the rebel.
> I am sure that they want to keep as much common within the crop body lineup to maximum efficiencies. Differences in the bodies will be based upon electronics, not the sensor



No! 
* Canon's age-old APS-C sensor design IS a huge limiting factor 
* Canon's APS-C sensors suck big time by today's standards [resolution and DR] 
* Canon absolutely needs to bring their APS-C cameras AT LEAST to the level that Nikon is offering for a yera already (D7100) 
* Canon will not get away this time by merely improving other features - as necessary and welcome those might be in their own right.


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## duydaniel (Jun 27, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > The sensor may not be strongest feature of Canon's line up, but is it the limiting factor? As long as they can improve performance by tweaking other parts of the camera, they may not work on a new sensor. Once they do, it will trickle their line up from 7D II (possible 1Dx2) down to 70/80D, and eventually to the rebel.
> ...



Canon gave you touch ability in lower model.
I don't find that feature professional. Others may like it.
The problem with Canon is I think they are trying to do both video and camera in one package.
While Nikon focus on photographic aspect and throw in the video mode.


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## kyamon (Jun 27, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> CanonMan said:
> 
> 
> > How much more technolgy should cameras have before they become "boring" because they do too much for you?
> ...



What kind of photography do you do that you need ALL these features...?


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## paul13walnut5 (Jun 27, 2013)

kyamon said:


> What kind of photography do you do that you need ALL these features...?



I know what you mean, folk were never going to be happy with the M unless it AF'd better than their 5D3s had more dynamic range than drum scanned velvia 50 rollfilm and took FD lenses (one of the more out there suggestions to fix the M)

So to but a further spin on the curve ball, what features does your DSLR have that you would gladly do without?

For me it's:

Auto mode
PIC modes
Any fake HDR or fake DR expanders
Anything to do with wifi or GPS as a feature of the camera body (i'll never use, let those who do add it on)
Any button to do with printing. Wasted button.
Partial metering.
AEB.
WBB.
Wind noise mic reduction.
Anything that mimics lomo or instagram.
sRAW or mRAW.
raw incorrectly labelled as RAW as if it was an acronym of something.

So what features of your DSLR are redundant?


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## kyamon (Jun 27, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> kyamon said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of photography do you do that you need ALL these features...?
> ...



I agree with most of these - but then again, mostly this is software. Having it or not having it makes no difference really.
GPS on bodies like the 1D or 5D series makes no sense to me, either - is there a pro here who is actually using that? Do you then look at the pins on iPhoto to see where you had your shootings, in case you forgot?

And yes! The print button! I have been wondering about that thing since I got my first DSLR (the 10D) and am annoyed that I can not reprogram that button... But maybe someone is really using that - since you can do in-camera raw-editing now (another feature that is utterly useless to me).

I really am waiting for someone to request the 1D to accept a SIM card for image transfer via LTE. It would add the very useful feature that you can also use your camera as a phone! And since it will have a retina touch screen and accelerometers, you can also play doodle jump and angry birds on it! And since taking pictures is so utterly boring, this will finally also allow us to watch movies while shooting!


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## tron (Jun 27, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Would like to see a 7d MK II with AF and metering functionality from the 5d MK 3, if they can do a sensor in the 24mp APS then this will be good and match against the Sony & Nikon as well along with a decent buffer and 8fps this will be a hit.


YES! And since it will be an APS-C model the same AF sensor would cover a lot more of the screen which would be yet another plus.


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## kyamon (Jun 27, 2013)

kyamon said:


> I know what you mean, folk were never going to be happy with the M unless it AF'd better than their 5D3s had more dynamic range than drum scanned velvia 50 rollfilm and took FD lenses (one of the more out there suggestions to fix the M)
> 
> So to but a further spin on the curve ball, what features does your DSLR have that you would
> I agree with most of these - but then again, mostly this is software. Having it or not having it makes no difference really.
> ...



((Just to be clear, and since I know that someone will point that out - I am aware that the 10D does not have the print button, and when I had it there was no pictbridge functionality. But I hope you got the point...))

On a more serious note - better sensors (higher DR, less noise) are always nice, taking noise-less pictures at 1/2000 and f/8 with no light certainly would be fun. Doing 60 fps raw without ever filling the buffer would be good. This is where it will go, I don't think Canon can beat the speed of technological progress.
Then again, and this has been said above, to take nice photographs one normally can do without such features. Sure, modern cameras can capture moments that they could not 100, or even 10 years ago. On the other hand there are many features that really do not contribute to the quality of a photo at all, like GPS or retina displays. Some people might use and enjoy them, but they do not make a camera better or worse, they don't even allow you to do things you could not do before.


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## weixing (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi,
For me, I'm more realistic:
1) 1 stop better ISO performance
2) 1 stop better low light AF
3) Price and the rest can remain the same

By the way, since 7D is a sport and wildlife DSLR, GPS will be nice... it'll be good to know where exactly did I shot that birds...

Have a nice day.


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## Macintosh Sauce (Jun 29, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> I heard there is a company named Nikon,
> they produce cameras and lenses too.
> 
> You can check them out at www.nikon.com
> cheer



The problem with Nikon is that the build quality of their DSLRs leaves something to be desired. I am looking at four other cameras right now, besides the new 70D to come. Since this is my first DSLR, I have the choice of going with APS-C or 35mm FF formats at the very start.

1. Canon Rebel T5i (APS-C)
2. Canon 70D (APS-C) - when available
3. Canon 6D (35mm FF)
4. Nikon D7100 (APS-C)
5. Nikon D600 (35mm FF)

This afternoon I was at Best buy checking out them (except for the 70D, obviously). I am not impressed with the build quality of Nikon DX/FX lenses. They feel so cheap compared to Canon's EF-S and EF lenses. Regarding the quality of the camera bodies themselves, Canon wins hands down, even on the Rebel T5i.

I found out why this is so... Canon manufactures their camera bodies in Japan, as well as their lenses. Nikon? Not so much, and it definitely shows.

Canon may be a little conservative in the way they build their DSLRs, but at least they are solidly built. If I am going to be investing thousands of dollars, over time, for camera gear, I want to make sure the stuff is going to last. Now, I know why Nikon has a four-year warranty on their lenses - they break down so often, so service is required over and over again.

After picking up and really examining the EF L series of lenses, I have to say that I am quite impressed with the quality of them. My thinking is that I could start with a 70D if the 6D does not woo me over and then upgrade to a 35mm FF model later on. I would only buy the EF L lenses, so I would not have to buy new lenses when and if I make a transition from APS-C to 35mm FF. Since I am starting from fresh I'd really like to start with a FF body though.


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## Neopulse (Jun 30, 2013)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> For me, I'm more realistic:
> 1) 1 stop better ISO performance
> 2) 1 stop better low light AF
> ...



Agree with most of what you said, except the integrated GPS though. Would compromise the body frame in it (would be like a 70D model). Would throw in the 19/19 AF in there and also AF-tuning (also an integrated grip, but fat chance). The ISO performance will be better including buffer and such if they integrate dual DIGIC 6 (not the 6+ ones) processors into it. Hope though the MP count will be reasonable. Maybe like the 20.2 in the 70D, but with better noise performance. It'll be a prized APS-C to own. Funny thing about it, is that there is a website already that has the 7D Mark II for comparison although they don't have the actual test data of the camara.


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## 20Dave (Jun 30, 2013)

If it were free, I would be fine with GPS whether I used it or not. It is approaching free in terms of cost, but it is not free from a battery drain perspective. I wouldn't want it unless it truly turns off.

Dave


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## dgatwood (Jul 1, 2013)

kyamon said:


> GPS on bodies like the 1D or 5D series makes no sense to me, either - is there a pro here who is actually using that? Do you then look at the pins on iPhoto to see where you had your shootings, in case you forgot?



I would expect that a lot of pros use their pro camera when on vacations rather than buying a whole separate camera just for that. So I would expect the percentage of pros who use GPS to be very nearly identical to the percentage of non-pros who use GPS. I could be wrong. They just use it less often as a percentage of the camera's life. 



20Dave said:


> If it were free, I would be fine with GPS whether I used it or not. It is approaching free in terms of cost, but it is not free from a battery drain perspective. I wouldn't want it unless it truly turns off.



It truly turns off. Well, I suppose the component draws a trickle of power so that the camera can tell it to turn on, but other than that.... 




Neopulse said:


> Agree with most of what you said, except the integrated GPS though. Would compromise the body frame in it (would be like a 70D model).



There are ways to have antennas on devices with metal enclosures without compromising the integrity of the body. The key is in either mounting them behind the display bezel, using strip antennas mounted in a small indentation in the metal body that is then covered with a plastic or rubber cover, using part of the camera body itself as an antenna (iPhone 4, anyone?), or even integrating the antenna into a new line of upgraded lenses. 

That said, if they're already doing integrated Wi-Fi, the cheapest way to add GPS is to provide integrated Bluetooth. You can use the same antenna for Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, but Bluetooth can be paired with any number of off-the-shelf Bluetooth GPS receivers. That also has the advantage of having less battery drain on the camera side of things in addition to the much easier-to-meet antenna requirements. It's not quite as convenient as built-in GPS, but having to carry a receiver in your camera bag is a far cry from having to either give up your hot shoe or have a receiver hanging from the side of your camera.

It boggles my mind that they're shipping bodies with Wi-Fi and no Bluetooth. Sure, Bluetooth is slow, but if you're uploading pictures through your phone, it's still likely to be as fast as or faster than the cellular network on the other side unless you happen to be in an LTE coverage area. And it uses a lot less battery power than Wi-Fi. But I digress.


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## cookinghusband (Jul 2, 2013)

I only wish Canon's DSLR live view autofocus perform similar to their camcorders

Currently is near un-usable


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## northbyten (Jul 2, 2013)

cookinghusband said:


> I only wish Canon's DSLR live view autofocus perform similar to their camcorders
> 
> Currently is near un-usable



Well in light of 70D's new live view AF I think your question has been answered.


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