# DPReview: Canon EOS R5 and R6 overheating claims tested: cameras work as promised – but that’s not enough



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 3, 2020)

> DPReview has completed their own testing of the various video record times for both the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6.
> As we’ve seen, the cameras do record to Canon’s claims, but with the same huge caveat. You only get these times from a completely cooled camera. So that means the times change when you use LiveView, shoot stills, or shoot any shorter length of video, doing that over and over will eventually lead to overheating. The EOS R5 took about an hour in the DPReview test to get back to normal temperature. The surprising thing DPReview found, is that the EOS R6 will generally record longer, but it takes longer to cool down.
> DPReview gives a few suggestions for maximizing your recording time with both the
> 
> [url=https://www.canonrumors.com/dpreview-canon-eos-r5-and-r6-overheating-claims-tested-cameras-work-as-promised-but-thats-not-enough/]Continue reading...


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## BeenThere (Aug 3, 2020)

Have beat it to death.


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## Wickedkayaker (Aug 3, 2020)

Maybe I could test mine, if only Adorama would update my order with processing or shipped. Nothing like ordering the day Adorama preorders go live only to go on-backorder without any communication or update.


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## anth455 (Aug 3, 2020)

So it records for the times canon states. I don't have an 8k tv who does? The size of the files is also a bit big for me. The price of a huge cfexpress card...

I think I would like to see a serious unbiased review for stills now.


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

'As promised....but that's not enough'. If that doesn't speak loudly about the motivation and state of 'media' I don't know what does. This is why I despise when people cite what the talking heads are saying. People paid to generate clicks always have an agenda. Show us objectively what the tool can DO when used for what it was built for, and keep your inane opinions out of it. Don't deliberately stoke controversy. Were competing products put to this standard in the past when they overheated without even manufacturer acknowledging it?

What is WRONG with people in this world?!

Every reviewer has been trying deliberately to push the camera to overheat, or trying to use it as a cinema camera, or dedicated video camera. Meanwhile the competition, also overheats just slightly less fast and cools slightly faster, is testing in ideal conditions indoors, and somehow a couple outdoor tests where it fails faster than Canon are not valid.

Look at this, a wedding photographer who apparently actually USED THE R5 in the field. He was realistic about how long he could use the HQ modes and simply, like an adult, respected the tool limitations and went back to normal modes. He also has a second body, like any working professional.





Let's hear from the normal, non paid customers, who are focused on trying to use the tool properly and let them tell us if the camera is failing them in normal, not deliberate failure modes. No more from the paid click bait crowd or emotional perpetually bashing whiners. It is time to hear from the voice of reason.


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## bitcars (Aug 3, 2020)

Main issue is Canon insulates the R5 and R6 too well, limiting heat exchange between internal components and the body.

It almost seems it makes better sense if Canon has a way to actively cool an already overheated camera. An enclosed RF mount cooling fan?


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## Colorado (Aug 3, 2020)

Wait what? Works as promised? The other thread has over a dozen pages saying the problem is Canon lied in the marketing material. Now it is working as promised but that is not enough? Gotcha.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 3, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> As promised....but that's not enough. What is WRONG with people in this world?!
> 
> Every reviewer has been trying deliberately to push the camera to overheat with as many cycles of high activity as they can. Or trying to use it as a cinema camera, or dedicated video camera. Meanwhile the competition, also overheats just slightly less fast and cools slightly faster, is testing in ideal conditions indoors, and somehow a couple outdoor tests where it fails faster than Canon are not valid.
> 
> ...



You're kind of picking and choosing who you want to believe. There are plenty of reviews done on the EOS R5 in a production/work environment, and how difficult it is to deal with the cooldown.

Even the guy that did your video says you'd probably need multiple bodies to properly do a wedding.

No one is disputing the quality of the footage.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

anth455 said:


> So it records for the times canon states. I don't have an 8k tv who does? The size of the files is also a bit big for me. The price of a huge cfexpress card...
> 
> I think I would like to see a serious unbiased review for stills now.


yeah but basically anything that isnt on an eos r overheats. that sucks.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 3, 2020)

Colorado said:


> Wait what? Works as promised? The other thread has over a dozen pages saying the problem is Canon lied in the marketing material. Now it is working as promised but that is not enough? Gotcha.


'You're not paying attention to what the issue is.


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Have beat it to death.



The topic has been beat to death, but there's been very little actual reporting. Also, the R5 cool down times seem a lot less severe in DPR's testing that what Gerald (2 hours, just to be super sure) or Armando (sort of other-the-top use case) found. I'm tired of hearing opinions on the overheating, but DPR's data is clear here and their commentary is balanced.

Edit: They even set inset the opinion parts into a special format.


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## YuengLinger (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon deserves praise for putting out some great mirrorless bodies, but they deserve some crow for misleading marketing.

Fortunately, most buyers here in the USA have a simple return policy, so if they feel mislead and disappointed, fine, no harm done, return and buy something else.

Canon absolutely put their foot in a pile of fire ants. But, please, get out of the "cancel culture" mindset, reassess the cameras based on what we know now and what Canon is busily admitting, and move on!


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> As promised....but that's not enough. What is WRONG with people in this world?!
> 
> Every reviewer has been trying deliberately to push the camera to overheat with as many cycles of high activity as they can. Or trying to use it as a cinema camera, or dedicated video camera. Meanwhile the competition, also overheats just slightly less fast and cools slightly faster, is testing in ideal conditions indoors, and somehow a couple outdoor tests where it fails faster than Canon are not valid.
> 
> ...


Who the hell wants to carry around multiple bodies for video during a wedding or for anything. Who wants to keep switching mods WORRYING about over heating. You want to work without worrying at all. No one wants added stress to their life.


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> Canon absolutely put their foot in a pile of fire ants. But, please, get out of the "cancel culture" mindset, reassess the cameras based on what we know now and what Canon is busily admitting, and move on!



No one wants to cancel Canon. What would be awesome is if Canon could somehow fix this with a recall and restore the R5/R6 to being arguably the best FF mirrorless options on the table. The IQ is stellar, the ergonomics are awesome, the IBIS is Olympus class, the RF glass is amazing. These two cameras should dominate the market right now.

But they have a fever.


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> Canon deserves praise for putting out some great mirrorless bodies, but they deserve some crow for misleading marketing.
> 
> Fortunately, most buyers here in the USA have a simple return policy, so if they feel mislead and disappointed, fine, no harm done, return and buy something else.
> 
> Canon absolutely put their foot in a pile of fire ants. But, please, get out of the "cancel culture" mindset, reassess the cameras based on what we know now and what Canon is busily admitting, and move on!




I agree they messed up marketing and did not proceed with caution in this environment of unreasonable people. They were not dishonest though. People heard what they wanted to hear from the marketing and yet Canon did state prior to any units shipping what the limitations are on the features. The camera exceeds those conservative limits in my real world testing. I find it interesting the couple people who tried to deliberately place the competition in failure modes are attacked and ridiculed, but it is always open season on Canon.

I'll be quick to report if the R5 fails in normal shooting modes and light video use, just like I would use my 5D4. So far it performs extremely well and my tests in direct sun, and cool down in AC are all better times than reported by any of these outlets. I'm just a normal customer though with conincidental product testing experience including electronics in thermal environments. What could I possibly know compared to someone who is paid and sponsored to generate clicks?


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## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Who the hell wants to carry around multiple bodies for video during a wedding or for anything. Who wants to keep switching mods WORRYING about over heating. You want to work without worrying at all. No one wants added stress to their life.


You shoot weddings at 8K? What are your computer specs like that you can process 8K video so well?


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Who the hell wants to carry around multiple bodies for video during a wedding or for anything. Who wants to keep switching mods WORRYING about over heating. You want to work without worrying at all. No one wants added stress to their life.



This is not a purpose built sports or events camera. My point in the above post was that professionals rather than perpetual whiners can understand their tools and apply them successfully. Do you really think no one ever used the overheating Sony bodies in the past to shoot a wedding?

Stop being emotional and go buy something else then. I think everyone else except you whining emotional lot are sick of hearing about everything this camera cannot do according to the mighty internet. I own this camera, have already tested it in many scenarios, and it works for my realistic needs.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> You shoot weddings at 8K? What are your computer specs like that you can process 8K video so well?


It over heats in these modes. 4k60, 4k120, 4k24hq, and 4k30hq. at least 3 of them are good to shoot a 2020/2021AD wedding in.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

Well these DPR tests have actually put my mind at ease. A 30 minute cool down is manageable for me. I have seen some youtube videos claiming cool down time is 6 hours. That would certainly be a deal breaker if it was that long! My R5 arrives on Wednesday, so I will soon know first hand.... let's see


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## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> It over heats in these modes. 4k60, 4k120, 4k24hq, and 4k30hq. at least 3 of them are good to shoot a 2020/2021AD wedding in.


You get 37 minutes of 4K60 Internal, and no overheating with External. Use that, problem solved. And who shoots long segments of 4K120 during a wedding? You do know all of these compact, weather-sealed, fanless cameras overheat, right? This isn't just a R5/R6 thing.


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## Besisika (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Who the hell wants to carry around multiple bodies for video during a wedding or for anything. Who wants to keep switching mods WORRYING about over heating. You want to work without worrying at all. No one wants added stress to their life.


Some portrait photographers shoot natural light (available light), some take the extra miles to bring strobes and assistant to help them out. You want to stand out, go the extra stresses. Leave laziness to the lazies.


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> No one wants to cancel Canon. What would be awesome is if Canon could somehow fix this with a recall and restore the R5/R6 to being arguably the best FF mirrorless options on the table. The IQ is stellar, the ergonomics are awesome, the IBIS is Olympus class, the RF glass is amazing. These two cameras should dominate the market right now.
> 
> But they have a fever.



How do you know how it is doing in the market? Do you have figures we don't? The only rumors I can find say Canon can only fill about 10% of the pre-orders with the first shipment for the R5, which if true is a similar market reaction that the successful D850 had.

It IS one of the best mirrorless options on the table already. It shoots incredible stills in all weather and very HQ video with some reasonable limits for everyone but dedicated video users. No other MILC camera on the market shoots high quality stills with this level of HQ video, IBIS, AF. The fact that there must be any compromise to perfection has people up in arms. Yet all this in a tiny MILC body that obviously is not going to cool well. Why not be up in arms about the compromises Sony made with A7S3? Choosing weaker IBIS and weather sealing, 12MP, lower bitrates are all large thermal advantages. Guess how long the Sony can shoot 8K (as if anyone needs 8K, really)? It shoots zero minutes of 8K. How many quality stills can it make for serious landscape photographers? Zero for anyone who isn't making tiny prints or casual snapshots- good luck if you need to crop in slightly on your 12MP stills. It allegedly cools well and shoots longer than Canon, but not in the hot sun. Any criticism of it and the 'tests are flawed'. The Sony is reviewed as what it is, a video camera with limited stills. Why is not the Canon being treated like what it is- a stills camera with limited video? It should be compared against A7R4 or similar stills bodies with some video features. It can shoot competent low bit rate video for a long time. Where is the controversy other than people want it to do what it was not designed for?

Canon may have been careless in marketing presentation, but they still disclosed everything up front.

The reaction is showing a similarity to cancel culture here. Mindless emotionalism and endless bashing laser focused without rationality. Instead of simply waiting or choosing another product, people are beating this point into the ground. Instead of simply making the point once and having a constructive discussion, it is constant complaint in the wrong places. Mature people would simply email Canon and perhaps post adult and well reasoned posts in a few places and leave it be at that. What you see instead is a bunch of angry whining parrots who have never held this camera blathering endlessly. The worst part is the group think you see going around. So and so clickbait reviewer said this, blah blah blah.


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## kingrobertii (Aug 3, 2020)

I am not as worried about the heating as of now, but the computer processing power to edit 4k 120 / 8k 30. As of now, my MBP cannot handle the load, which is frustrating. Good thing I am primarily a stills shooter.


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## miketcool (Aug 3, 2020)

My R5 is fine. YouTube gear specs junkies don’t make art, they make controversy for views. Imma go shoot some art while the internet plays tribal adventure.


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## koenkooi (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> You get 37 minutes of 4K60 Internal, and no overheating with External. Use that, problem solved. And who shoots long segments of 4K120 during a wedding? You do know all of these compact, weather-sealed, fanless cameras overheat, right? This isn't just a R5/R6 thing.



Please stop with the "Long 120p takes" strawman. It's cumulative, doing a few, short 120p shots has the same effect as a single, long 120p shot.


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## Shane (Aug 3, 2020)

I don't understand all the people expecting such a small form factor to produce such high quality images without a trade off. Its not a dedicated video camera and was never designed to be one. Had Canon put a fan in it and made it stay cool it would be bigger and not quiet enough and more complaints would follow. I got to play with an R6 and and R5 and I'm blown away. I am a high volume wedding shooter so two R6 bodies are on my list and the first preordered already. For photos they are a home run. I always said when the R came out, put a joystick on it and two slots and a 1Dx3 sensor and its a wedding winner. I shot with two 5Dsr bodies for a year and after 40 weddings I hated the huge files most of the time. May get a R5 down the road for seniors and engagements, but run and gun candid work the R6 is my dream camera. The RF glass finally has worthy bodies, and to be honest wether on my R or RP the RF glass just rocks. Just my five cents.


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## Terry Danks (Aug 3, 2020)

What seems lost . . .

These cameras really have no competition!

The 12MP Sony? Really? That is NOT competition. That is a video-centric camera with a P&S MP count! 

As always, the market will decide. My R5 order remains firm.

If I were doing contract wedding photography, and clients were actually demanding downsampled 4K and full 8K video in the package, I'd not be using any presently available hybrid camera for the job. That said, the R5 is the ONLY hybrid presently on the market that COULD do the job, allowing its limitations be allowed for! What other 4000USD camera will get you ANY 8K footage? 

The R5 will do any and everything any competitor's camera will do . . . and, within its limitations, go where those competitors can not!

And, BTW, are customers actually demanding downsampled 4K and 8K for their weddings? Or is this whole controversy a manufactured one?


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## derpderp (Aug 3, 2020)

I have the R5 and I shoot photos and 4k24p HQ clips with it. Works perfectly for me thus far and I live in an area with constant temperatures between 28-34 degrees celsius. No idea what the overheating issue is about. No one in the right mind would shoot feature length videos with a such a tiny camera - a cinema camera would be the better tool for the job.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> It over heats in these modes. 4k60, 4k120, 4k24hq, and 4k30hq. at least 3 of them are good to shoot a 2020/2021AD wedding in.


The line skipped/ pixel binned modes equivalent to say, an EOS R?


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## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Please stop with the "Long 120p takes" strawman. It's cumulative, doing a few, short 120p shots has the same effect as a single, long 120p shot.


Okay, so then if you do 20-30 consecutive 30-second 4K120 segments, then the R5 maybe isn't for you. You can get a Sony A7S3 and maybe squeeze out an extra X segments. But then if you want anything more than 12MP stills, you'll have to carry a second body around anyway.


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

kingrobertii said:


> I am not as worried about the heating as of now, but the computer processing power to edit 4k 120 / 8k 30. As of now, my MBP cannot handle the load, which is frustrating. Good thing I am primarily a stills shooter.


Yep and the vast majority of whiners don't have the camera, or the budget for the whole workflow including very expensive memory cards and CPU/GPU and storage upgrades either.

I know my purpose built editing tower with lots of CPU/GPU and project SSDs starts to choke slightly on the 4K60 even, depending on the codec, but I built it with 4K30 in mind and insist on using Resolve so I deal with what I must. I've yet to try the in camera proxies which looks like a nice time saver if it works well.

The camera is really for stills and light duty video, which cannot be repeated enough.


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## Rocksthaman (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> You shoot weddings at 8K? What are your computer specs like that you can process 8K video so well?



it’s the 4K60 and 4khq that is the problem. The fact that you can take pictures to where you can over heat the camera and have no option to use it. 



cornieleous said:


> How do you know how it is doing in the market? Do you have figures we don't? The only rumors I can find say Canon can only fill about 10% of the pre-orders with the first shipment for the R5, which if true is a similar market reaction that the successful D850 had.
> 
> It IS one of the best mirrorless options on the table already. It shoots incredible stills in all weather and very HQ video with some reasonable limits for everyone but dedicated video users. No other MILC camera on the market shoots high quality stills with this level of HQ video, IBIS, AF. The fact that there must be any compromise to perfection has people up in arms. Yet all this in a tiny MILC body that obviously is not going to cool well. Why not be up in arms about the compromises Sony made with A7S3? Choosing weaker IBIS and weather sealing, 12MP, lower bitrates are all large thermal advantages. Guess how long the Sony can shoot 8K (as if anyone needs 8K, really)? It shoots zero minutes of 8K. How many quality stills can it make for serious landscape photographers? Zero for anyone who isn't making tiny prints or casual snapshots- good luck if you need to crop in slightly on your 12MP stills. It allegedly cools well and shoots longer than Canon, but not in the hot sun. Any criticism of it and the 'tests are flawed'. The Sony is reviewed as what it is, a video camera with limited stills. Why is not the Canon being treated like what it is- a stills camera with limited video? It should be compared against A7R4 or similar stills bodies with some video features. It can shoot competent low bit rate video for a long time. Where is the controversy other than people want it to do what it was not designed for?
> 
> ...



“cancel culture” , screams you have a whole other discussion you want to have .


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Please stop with the "Long 120p takes" strawman. It's cumulative, doing a few, short 120p shots has the same effect as a single, long 120p shot.



Can you describe your test method for that assertion? Include ambient temperature, total sequence of activity, etc. At what point would you consider the test a pass? Zero limitations for infinite time?


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## edoorn (Aug 3, 2020)

I did some video testing yesterday. Shot in a barn (which was moderately hot, about 24 degrees celcius I guess) with a bunch of kitties; I was there for about an hour and shot about short 40 clips, the majority in 120 fps, a bunch in 24 fps HQ and some rest material - after it heated up - in 60 fps. And yes, I have the strong impression that's true about the cumulative time shooting 120 fps. None of my takes were longer than 15 seconds (which still is quite long for editing purposes as you'll read below).

To be honest, I could imaging this being a let down for a bit more serious video or hybrid production. Often you'll spend much more time on location and need to shoot a few more clips than that.

That said, what I did learn is that if I need 120 fps, it's better to shoot much shorter clips. Some were about 15 seconds of filming, but you'll end up with 75 seconds of footage in your 24 fps timeline, of which you'll probably only need a few seconds. Also, shooting in 120 fps and HQ will result in very big files; I ended up with 120gb for this project, and Final Cut needs a bit of proxy'ing for proper editing. Output does surely look great.

This was the first time ever I shot in c-log and probably will need to learn a lot more, but not unhappy for a first time. Also, shooting out of hand and getting decent footage was rather easy with this camera.

To me, it's primarily a stills camera and I expect to use video moderately, but I do hope there will be some improvements in this regard, in particular if things change and video becomes a bit more serious for me. Perhaps a firmware but I'd be happy to turn in the camera for a recall if that's what's needed. Until that time I don't mind hanging on to it at all for my photography; it's a brilliant camera for that.

I think the marketing approach could've been much better. They should've promoted it primarily as an amazing stills camera (which it is), with some very good video features that have a compromise at the highest settings.

ps almost forgot; the result!


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## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> it’s the 4K60 and 4khq that is the problem. The fact that you can take pictures to where you can over heat the camera and have no option to use it.


Again, 37 minutes of 4K60 Internal, and no overheating with External.


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## stevelee (Aug 3, 2020)

People who spend hours shooting 8k video should definitely buy something else.


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## JustUs7 (Aug 3, 2020)

What I’m finding weird, and it may be my own lack of understanding, is that all this complaining about 30, 60, and 120 FPS video.

When the R and the RP came out, all anyone wanted was 24 FPS video and Canon committed a capital crime leaving that out.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> The line skipped/ pixel binned modes equivalent to say, an EOS R?


I havent done the comparison. All I hope is that the low light has at least improved. Give me smoething over the R in terms of video quality. I am tired of using these god damn heavy ass cinema cameras.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

derpderp said:


> I have the R5 and I shoot photos and 4k24p HQ clips with it. Works perfectly for me thus far and I live in an area with constant temperatures between 28-34 degrees celsius. No idea what the overheating issue is about. No one in the right mind would shoot feature length videos with a such a tiny camera - a cinema camera would be the better tool for the job.


I, for one, just want to say I like your set up. Nice lenses and bodies. Enjoy the R5! Glad its working for you!


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## privatebydesign (Aug 3, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> it’s the 4K60 and 4khq that is the problem. The fact that you can take pictures to where you can over heat the camera and have no option to use it.


That IS NOT how the R5 works, when it gives a temperature warning and shuts off from capturing high resolution video you can immediately turn the camera back on and use it for still and or regular video. The only thing you get locked out of is the highest video specs.

to reiterate, the R5 NEVER bricks or locks you out of stills or regular video even if it just shutdown.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Some portrait photographers shoot natural light (available light), some take the extra miles to bring strobes and assistant to help them out. You want to stand out, go the extra stresses. Leave laziness to the lazies.


I didnt know doing video and photography is the exact same thing. You want more stable shots and better angles for longer than a second, you want to carry less stuff when it comes to video. I can do a wedding with 3 camera bodies on my body. Juggling 2 cameras during continuous filming is a lot of shakiness and starting and stopping. I do both photography and videography so I know how things really feel.
.


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## drama (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> I didnt know doing video and photography is the exact same thing. You want more stable shots and better angles for longer than a second, you want to carry less stuff when it comes to video. I can do a wedding with 3 camera bodies on my body. Juggling 2 cameras during continuous filming is a lot of shakiness and starting and stopping. I do both photography and videography so I know how things really feel.
> .



we’re three pages in and you’re coming up with subjective responses to every objective point. Can we move on? You’ve said you don’t think the camera is good. Don’t buy one. Other cameras exist.

next point anyone?


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That IS NOT how the R5 works, when it gives a temperature warning and shuts off from capturing high resolution video you can immediately turn the camera back on and use it for still and or regular video. The only thing you get locked out of is the highest video specs.
> 
> *to reiterate, the R5 NEVER bricks or locks you out of stills or regular video even if it just shutdown.*


This cannot be repeated enough, you are never without an option.


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## another_mikey (Aug 3, 2020)

I for one, am against *any camera modifications that would potentially compromise the excellent weather sealing* of this camera. I am buying it as a stills shooter, and will probably do minimal video. I am a scenic and wildlife shooter who will unavoidably be out in rainy conditions on occasion, and I need the camera to be safe and reliable in those conditions. 

From just the marketing standpoint, it seemed like common sense to me that a small mirrorless body that shoots basically state of the art video would not be designed to replace the much more expensive and video dedicated cameras that Canon sells, so once all the specs had been shown, it seemed obvious the camera would have time limits for shooting video, at least in all the modes that were high end or groundbreaking. And that is without even considering all the previous evidence of how this type of data processing generates heat that has been exposed in other previous cameras from other manufacturers that have exhibited these same heat mitigation issues to one degree or another.

I agree with a poster above - the specs and limitations are now pretty well known. The camera is a hybrid camera that has chosen to excel at stills, while offering groundbreaking video for *limited duration* applications only. if you need longer video you can either:

1) Add an external recorder to the R5 for video shooting if that cost and additional complexity work for you

2) Buy a video-centric camera like the A7S III instead of the R5 that is clearly designed as a video tool first, at the expense of a lot of things relating to stills.

3) Buy a full up dedicated video camera if your use case requires and you can afford it.


At this point no one is forcing you to buy and use an R5. Given the backlog of orders I dare say Canon will be alright without all the customers who now can see that this camera will not fulfill their needs. And there are other better options out there now (or very soon to be released) that will be better for the heavier video use cases that some potential customers say they require. I for one cannot wait for my R5 to arrive, and I very much look forward to some reviews by people who are intending to use it as a stills camera. For those other potential customers it seems to be time to move on to another product. The R5 would appear to be unsuitable for you.

ML


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## Jupiter_GP (Aug 3, 2020)

Here it is shown that the new A7IIIS also heats up and it gets hotter


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## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

Terry Danks said:


> What seems lost . . .
> These cameras really have no competition!


Actually they do.
The R5 doesn't do much more than 4K30 line skipped reliably so it competes directly with the A7r4 and Z7 (~$3k price point).
The R6 doesn't do 4K video reliably and has a lower resolution sensor so it sits below the A73 and Z6 (~$2k price point).
Yes, RF lenses are great and Canon AF+IBIS is potentially industry leading. However, Sony and Nikon are close enough and certainly up for the task (Sony also has a lot more lenses).
Only good thing is the prices will come down soon (for us, not for Canon).

Just the two cents of a 100% Canon shooter (if that matters).


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## TheSalvatore (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> You're kind of picking and choosing who you want to believe. There are plenty of reviews done on the EOS R5 in a production/work environment, and how difficult it is to deal with the cooldown.
> 
> Even the guy that did your video says you'd probably need multiple bodies to properly do a wedding.
> 
> No one is disputing the quality of the footage.


Agreed with you. I took my Canon R5 out for a normal street shoot ytd. I'm based in Singapore and temperature can easily be 32C- 36C. I was shooting stills the whole time. When I saw something quite interesting and wanted to use its 4K120 but guess what, overheating and not able to record. Back then I really think that R5 users should have at least 2 bodies...


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

mppix said:


> Actually since the R5 doesn't do much more than 4K30 line skipped reliably, it is a direct competitor of the A7r and Z7.
> Since the R6 doesn't do 4K video reliably and has a lower resolution sensor, it sits below the A7 and Z6.
> Yes, RF lenses are great and Canon AF+IBIS is potentially industry leading. However, Sony and Nikon are not far behind (and Sony has a lot more lenses).
> Just the two cents of a 100% Canon shooter (if that matters).


I would also add the R5 does 5.1k cropped 4K30/24 reliably that is nicer then the EOS R and can be shot using 10bit clog internally.


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## IVS (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> You get 37 minutes of 4K60 Internal, and no overheating with External. Use that, problem solved. And who shoots long segments of 4K120 during a wedding? You do know all of these compact, weather-sealed, fanless cameras overheat, right? This isn't just a R5/R6 thing.


Overheating is just part of the problem. The extremely slow cooling is what could affect a workflow big time. It's not that after those 37 minutes you wait 5 minutes and you get 30 minutes again... My 90D runs 29.59 min. at 4K 24p as long as the memory card's capacity runs out / with 2 seconds break required to push the record button once the limit kicks in. I would not rely on the R5 nor R6 for such a workflow not even at 4k24p.


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## derpderp (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That IS NOT how the R5 works, when it gives a temperature warning and shuts off from capturing high resolution video you can immediately turn the camera back on and use it for still and or regular video. The only thing you get locked out of is the highest video specs.
> 
> to reiterate, the R5 NEVER bricks or locks you out of stills or regular video even if it just shutdown.



Can confirm. Managed to make my camera overheat today after a very long 4kHQ shoot (40 mins+) and I was still able to take photos after.


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## derpderp (Aug 3, 2020)

IVS said:


> Overheating is just part of the problem. The extremely slow cooling is what could affect a workflow big time. It's not that after those 37 minutes you wait 5 minutes and you get 30 minutes again... My 90D runs 29.59 min. at 4K 24p as long as the memory card's capacity runs out / with 2 seconds break required to push the record button once the limit kicks in. I would not rely on the R5 nor R6 for such a workflow not even at 4k24p.



isn't ur 90D an APSC camera?


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

IVS said:


> Overheating is just part of the problem. The extremely slow cooling is what could affect a workflow big time. It's not that after those 37 minutes you wait 5 minutes and you get 30 minutes again... My 90D runs 29.59 min. at 4K 24p as long as the memory card's capacity runs out / with 2 seconds break required to push the record button once the limit kicks in. I would not rely on the R5 nor R6 for such a workflow not even at 4k24p.


Why not? The non HQ 4K24p will work the same as your 90D and I bet the 4K is comparable. Oh and the R5 is FF so little more coverage.


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## Pape (Aug 3, 2020)

I dont know why wedding photographers feel they need spray 8k over whole event. cant they just use line skip 4k for boring moments and 8k for important moments


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## Jstnelson (Aug 3, 2020)

I just received my R5 on Friday and used it all weekend and I love it. I love the extra grip girth, build feels premium over the R in subtle ways like the screen hinge and overall feel, i'm still not over how great the shutter sound is, the IBIS is amazing, the resolution is amazing.

I packed up after a shoot Sunday and then turned my camera on to take a candid of my fiancee. It had gotten very dark so i just switched it from Manual to Aperture Priority and snapped a shot while we were walking to the car (I was walking when I took the shot). Once I loaded everything into lightroom I saw the pic and it was pretty underexposed. I had the ISO set to 100 instead of auto so the shot was at 1/15sec, f1.2, ISO 100 on my RF 85 1.2. It was SUPER sharp right on the pupil. I brought up the exposure and shadows a bit and it looked like a perfect shot. The auto focus, IBIS, and resolution of this camera is amazing!

I know I'm posting this in response to a video review but, as a stills shooter, I just want to say to those that haven't received your camera; it's amazing. I've done 3 shoots with it and still definitely in the honeymoon phase with it.


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## mb66energy (Aug 3, 2020)

Kudos to Canon being honest about its products properties. That is not normal in our world where companies tell you about all those great capabilities and if you buy the product you have to learn that these capabilities are only possible under very specific conditions e.g. fuel / electricity consumption at least on the German market.

While Canon products aren't mystical they are rock solid tools - just the more or less entry level M50 (and models below) have a fully manual mode and - the M50 - has a solid set of functions which leaves just a few things open - for me filming at 1 fps with 350 degree shutter angle (the M does it with ML). Older lenses like 5.6 400 with 2x TC mark i work flawlessly and it takes just FD lenses.

Maybe 8k is a waste product of getting very good 4k but Canon decided to use just the 8k files and I am shure it will solve a lot of problems for film makers just those who have the biggest systems ... in tight environments. And allows "poorer" film makers creating well prepared short scenes with a camera they own and bring down rent times for dedicated 8k video cams.

Additionally I remember a story of a wedding photographer who used the - cinema wise limited - 4k capabilities of the EOS 5Dc for wedding photography ... to have 24 fps or so for 8 MPix photos. Now this can be done with 32 MPix photos.


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## IVS (Aug 3, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Why not the non HQ 4K24p will work the same as your 90D and I bet the 4K is comparable. Oh and the R5 is FF so little more coverage.


And what exactly would I pay the extra $1500 for !?    Sure thing ain't for the battery life


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> it’s the 4K60 and 4khq that is the problem. The fact that you can take pictures to where you can over heat the camera and have no option to use it.
> 
> 
> 
> “cancel culture” , screams you have a whole other discussion you want to have .


I was echoing what the other poster said. Calm down.


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## IVS (Aug 3, 2020)

derpderp said:


> isn't ur 90D an APSC camera?


Indeed it is...and it's awesome ! If it wasn't for IBIS I wouldn't even consider the R6.


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## DBounce (Aug 3, 2020)

I have the R5 in hand. My order was delivered last week Thursday. I can tell you that the line skipped 4K is not something you’ll want to shoot once you’ve seen the image quality upgrade from shooting the 4K HQ. I can also tell you that the camera does indeed overheat and that the cool down times can be unexpectedly long.

The real issue with the R5 is that it’s performance is unpredictable. Have you watched a video play back? Well, sorry, that will reduce your recording time. Did you leave it switch on between takes?... again, sorry, recording time is reduced. Did you take stills?... Well, you get the picture. I’m not accustomed to this sort of unreliable and unpredictable behavior from a Canon body. It’s unacceptable. And before you speak out to refute my claims, first go and shoot with an R5... that you purchased and then give your opinion. I find things are different when someone has some skin in the game. If you don’t have the camera in hand, you can’t speak from experience.

I tested the R5 against my Sigma fp... image quality, to my eyes is practically identical. The Sigma can shoot raw all day long, with a body that is almost half the size of the Canon... and it does not overheat... at all. Canon can do better. And we as customers must let them know we need a camera with repeatable performance. This camera is a constant roll of the dice every time you hit the shutter button.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

IVS said:


> Overheating is just part of the problem. The extremely slow cooling is what could affect a workflow big time. It's not that after those 37 minutes you wait 5 minutes and you get 30 minutes again... My 90D runs 29.59 min. at 4K 24p as long as the memory card's capacity runs out / with 2 seconds break required to push the record button once the limit kicks in. I would not rely on the R5 nor R6 for such a workflow not even at 4k24p.


Yea, line skipped 4K24 would be fine and you wouldn't have to worry about overheating there, however, you're comparing a $939 camera to a $3900 camera now which is worrisome. However, you would get better AF, FF, 10-bit log? I don't know if that's worth it for you or not. Maybe an EOS R? They're pretty discounted now.


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## jabeling (Aug 3, 2020)

edoorn said:


> I did some video testing yesterday. Shot in a barn (which was moderately hot, about 24 degrees celcius I guess) with a bunch of kitties; I was there for about an hour and shot about short 40 clips, the majority in 120 fps, a bunch in 24 fps HQ and some rest material - after it heated up - in 60 fps. And yes, I have the strong impression that's true about the cumulative time shooting 120 fps. None of my takes were longer than 15 seconds (which still is quite long for editing purposes as you'll read below).
> 
> To be honest, I could imaging this being a let down for a bit more serious video or hybrid production. Often you'll spend much more time on location and need to shoot a few more clips than that.
> 
> ...



Those last kittens in your shots look exactly like are our cats when they were young


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

DBounce said:


> I have the R5 in hand. My order was delivered last week Thursday. I can tell you that the line skipped 4K is not something you’ll want to shoot once you’ve seen the image quality upgrade from shooting the 4K HQ. I can also tell you that the camera does indeed overheat and that the cool down times can be unexpectedly long.
> 
> The real issue with the R5 is that it’s performance is unpredictable. Have you watched a video play back? Well, sorry, that will reduce your recording time. Did you leave it switch on between takes?... again, sorry, recording time is reduced. Did you take stills?... Well, you get the picture. I’m not accustomed to this sort of unreliable and unpredictable behavior from a Canon body. It’s unacceptable. And before you speak out to refute my claims, first go and shoot with an R5... that you purchased and then give your opinion. I find things are different when someone has some skin in the game. If you don’t have the camera in hand, you can’t speak from experience.
> 
> I tested the R5 against my Sigma fp... image quality, to my eyes is practically identical. The Sigma can shoot raw all day long, with a body that is almost half the size of the Canon... and it does not overheat... at all. Canon can do better. And we as customers must let them know we need a camera with repeatable performance. This camera is a constant roll of the dice every time you hit the shutter button.


This type of usability limitation is what I am worried about. Yikes. I'm fully expecting to return my R5 after testing if it will work for my use case.


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

IVS said:


> And what exactly would I pay the extra $1500 for !?    Sure thing ain't for the battery life


FF
45MP
IBIS
Dual Card slots
12FPS
Better AF
Access to RF glass
World Peace - Your mileage may very

I have no idea if any of this matters to "You" but you said you could not do something on the R5 that your 90D can and that just seems to be NOT true.

Sorry


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## IVS (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Yea, line skipped 4K24 would be fine and you wouldn't have to worry about overheating there, however, you're comparing a $939 camera to a $3900 camera now which is worrisome. However, you would get better AF, FF, 10-bit log? I don't know if that's worth it for you or not. Maybe an EOS R? They're pretty discounted now.


I'm recording 10 bit to an Atomos Ninja Inferno. I'm more into wildlife, nature related work so if I have some climb to do then I take the Andycine monitor for control only and deal with the internal 8 bit. The R5 I find way expensive for "my taste" but the R6 would have been a nice compromise, IBIS and All-I ( if firmware upgrade coming) vs the totally miserable battery life in comparison to the 90D. R doesn't have IBIS..so not much to gain there. I have already decided to stick to what I got and see how things are shaping once all this circus calms a bit .


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## Besisika (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> I didnt know doing video and photography is the exact same thing. You want more stable shots and better angles for longer than a second, you want to carry less stuff when it comes to video. I can do a wedding with 3 camera bodies on my body. Juggling 2 cameras during continuous filming is a lot of shakiness and starting and stopping. I do both photography and videography so I know how things really feel.
> .


I do photography since 1989 and videography since 2002. The artistic mindset is the same; the more you want to pay attention to detail and work toward excellence, the better result you have. I always have two bodies doing videos, A-cam and B-cam. A-cam on a tripod, B-cam on a gimbal, monopod or handheld. I do video and sound at the same time whether I shoot concerts, wedding or documentary. Everything starts in your own mind extended to the attitude. What I can't do is shooting video and photo during the same event, my mind has trouble switching.
The R5 should help a lot more for videos, given the wireless (remote triggering), the IBIS, tilt screen and weight.
My opinion, people should share their ways and techniques on how to use the gear, instead of whining a month long.


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## mbike999 (Aug 3, 2020)

On the one hand, I thought the claims were overblown about the overheating, especially if it is working as advertised, but if it truly takes multiple hours to cool down after a filming sequence that could be really frustrating and difficult to work with. Even if it bricks your camera for 20 minutes that could be really frustrating in a live environment


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Ramage said:


> This cannot be repeated enough, you are never without an option.



I just love how confident people are that the camera could never...never, ever, infinity+1 in big bold type...overheat shooting stills or regular 4k. Despite the fact that stills can trigger thermal protection in 80-90F weather, and despite two user reports that they did encounter thermal issues while shooting stills. I see posts like that and just grin.

We'll see...


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## jam05 (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> You're kind of picking and choosing who you want to believe. There are plenty of reviews done on the EOS R5 in a production/work environment, and how difficult it is to deal with the cooldown.
> 
> Even the guy that did your video says you'd probably need multiple bodies to properly do a wedding.
> 
> No one is disputing the quality of the footage.


Or simply use a USB powered CPU cooling fan. It's about 3" and can be powered by a power bank. Voila. What people have been using for decades to cool electronics. FANS!!


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 3, 2020)

No Comment. 

Article says all one needs to say about the horrible, unreliable, unpredictableness of these new overheating cameras...

....but they forgot to talk about the LIE Canon wrote that using an External Fan will help with the overheating issue.


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## IVS (Aug 3, 2020)

Ramage said:


> FF
> 45MP
> IBIS
> Dual Card slots
> ...


Oh,.. hold your horses for now you are talking about $3000+ over my 90D ....  .
You say 45MP,.. the 32.5 of the 90D on a crop frame is actually over the 45 on full frame. 
IBIS,..yeah.. that indeed sounds neat !
Dual card slot ?... nah,..I shoot external most of the time. 
12fps vs 11 from the 90D,.. 
I use Zeiss 21mm among my lenses,..don't even have autofocus option 
RF glasses,.. the bokeh on the EF 85 is nicer,..rounder. 
World Peace will never happen because we are the way we are  
PS: Battery life is terrible on the R5 and R6,..for a 5-6 nights trip I would have to rent a mule just for the juice. 
So, no.... at this point I don't see it justified to spend 1.5K over the 90D,..let alone 3K+.


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## jam05 (Aug 3, 2020)

It's obvious, nobody wants to use that little device that sits inside of your PC. A fan. Or if you want to get a tad bit fancy a Fansink, or even a tiny Peltier with fan. All can be powered via a small power bank for up to about 6 hours.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

IVS said:


> I'm recording 10 bit to an Atomos Ninja Inferno. I'm more into wildlife, nature related work so if I have some climb to do then I take the Andycine monitor for control only and deal with the internal 8 bit. The R5 I find way expensive for "my taste" but the R6 would have been a nice compromise, IBIS and All-I ( if firmware upgrade coming) vs the totally miserable battery life in comparison to the 90D. R doesn't have IBIS..so not much to gain there. I have already decided to stick to what I got and see how things are shaping once all this circus calms a bit .


Oh okay, I wouldn't trust the R6 at this moment. Definitely wouldn't be able to record indefinitely like you do now. Thats a great idea! Those pre-orders are definitely gonna take a while to come in so you have time!


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I just love how confident people are that the camera could never...never, ever, infinity+1 in big bold type...overheat shooting stills or regular 4k. Despite the fact that stills can trigger thermal protection in 80-90F weather, and despite two user reports that they did encounter thermal issues while shooting stills. I see posts like that and just grin.
> 
> We'll see...


I love how you like to keep pushing your agenda. Other than to stir  why are you still here?

Yep the camera will overheat taking stills and the world will stop to morn the passing of another great camera... Or people will switch it off and wait for it to cool down... Just like when my 7D overheated.


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## lucuias (Aug 3, 2020)

I tested R5 and R6 just now and I find the camera body barely warm while the overheat sign shows .It is almost like a software limitation intended by Canon .I bet a firmware update will fix all the significant overheat issue hype over the internet .


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

IVS said:


> Oh,.. hold your horses for now you are talking about $3000+ over my 90D ....  .
> You say 45MP,.. the 32.5 of the 90D on a crop frame is actually over the 45 on full frame.
> IBIS,..yeah.. that indeed sounds neat !
> Dual card slot ?... nah,..I shoot external most of the time.
> ...


Cool


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## jam05 (Aug 3, 2020)

IVS said:


> Oh,.. hold your horses for now you are talking about $3000+ over my 90D ....  .
> You say 45MP,.. the 32.5 of the 90D on a crop frame is actually over the 45 on full frame.
> IBIS,..yeah.. that indeed sounds neat !
> Dual card slot ?... nah,..I shoot external most of the time.
> ...


Shoot with what's good for YOU. PS. Battery life is excellent on the R5. Depends on how you shoot. A Toyota Camary will work for many people. However saying that it's equivalent to a Lexus or an Avalon isn't acknowledging reality.


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## IVS (Aug 3, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Shoot with what's good for YOU. PS. Battery life is excellent on the R5. Depends on how you shoot. A Toyota Camary will work for many people. However saying that it's equivalent to a Lexus or an Avalon isn't acknowledging reality.


Well...I drive a 5 speed manual transmission Suzuki so don't know much about Toyota or Fancy Toyota but... I do realize that it's useless to have even a RED if no 2 hummingbirds will put up an epic 8 minutes fight in the front of your eyes... Same way,.. what's the use of having a Lexus if you can't use it but to and from work. 
Here's something I shot last season with a T7i,..in HD. I got to rot for weeks for this short film. Often in temps above 97 degrees.


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## jam05 (Aug 3, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Shoot with what's good for YOU. PS. Battery life on the R5 being a mirrorless is far better than that of the 90D. Depends on how you shoot. A Toyota Camary will work for many people. However saying that it's equivalent to a Lexus or an Avalon isn't acknowledging reality. The proper tools for the job. The owner of a garage ask the well known mechanic to work on the new Mercedes-Benz with the shops tools consisting of a set of allen wrenches, screwdriver and discount store socket set. The mechanic refuses and wheels in his own tools, stating that his reputation is at stake.


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## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

Those that know me, know that I'm a fairly happy EF shooter but quite irritated by Canon's current strategy including hybrid shooting, say video capabilities in the 5Div, and the introduction of an EF-M incompatible RF mount (we need a RF to EF-M speed-booster), and limited incentive to move from EF to RF outside of native adapters (that you have to buy).
My confusion partially stems form many of my friends and colleagues moving to Sony, mainly because many photographic assignments today can include some video (I am not talking about shooting a blockbuster). They initially shot by adapting their EF lens collection but eventually graduated to E-mount lenses. These people are not coming back. I know quite a few people that could tell a story like this





It nearly seems as if Canon and Sony reversed roles. I'm buzzled.
I'd be really interested what others think.


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## edoorn (Aug 3, 2020)

lucuias said:


> I tested R5 and R6 just now and I find the camera body barely warm while the overheat sign shows .It is almost like a software limitation intended by Canon .I bet a firmware update will fix all the significant overheat issue hype over the internet .



well this surprised me too yesterday when I got the signal; I expected the camera to be very hot but it wasn't. Or they've made it in a way the heat stays completely inside


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 3, 2020)

"After extensive testing of both cameras, our conclusions with regards internal recording are:


Both the EOS R5 and R6 appear _capable_ of working as promised
Lack of dependability makes them a poor choice for much professional video work"


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> You're kind of picking and choosing who you want to believe. There are plenty of reviews done on the EOS R5 in a production/work environment, and how difficult it is to deal with the cooldown.
> 
> Even the guy that did your video says you'd probably need multiple bodies to properly do a wedding.
> 
> No one is disputing the quality of the footage.



I don't think I'm picking and choosing any more than anyone else, and I wasn't using that link to say 'see the camera is fine for all wedding photographers' just that someone understood the limits and worked within them. The real problem here is the subjectivity of what is "ok" for the R5 and what the camera is designed for. Its weather sealed, strong IBIS, tiny body, powerful AF and processing, high MP- all things that will equal heat and there has to be a compromise somewhere. Canon marketing was quite sloppy but to me it is still ridiculous to expect any product to do more than a manufacturer says it can do on the spec. sheet. Not what we wish it to do, but with what it was designed for and can do. Canon told us what it can do fairly clearly, and it does it. I think perhaps people disagree that they told us enough. Perhaps they needed even more language to define the overheating situation like "previous heating from environment or use may cause further limitations of HQ video modes"?

I didn't post that video link and say because one guy made a wedding video with the 8K successfully that it was fine as a dedicated wedding or video workhorse for pro video use, we know it has limits. I simply was trying to show an example of someone who proved it _can_ be used with knowledge of those limits where many of the reviews and negative comments are concluding it is a useless camera because of the limits and could never be used professionally. I am pretty sure he also said low res modes and stills were still available, so to me he hit the described limits, and still had a camera.

I agree that reports of the camera heating up just idling or taking stills before video has begun are concerning and if those remove the HQ video features it may be a problem, but I also have not experienced that with mine. Heating it in the sun does eventually get it hot enough to limit those HQ features, but we're talking about a long soak in the sun. I did a fairly thorough overheat test at 85°F in direct sun for what I think was reasonable use: 30 mins of 4K60, then a bunch of lower res use and stills for 60 mins, then more 4K60. When my unit did shut down, I could still use it for low res and stills. 20-30 mins in AC and I could get more 4K60. So at what point is the camera good enough to not be a failure? I think Canon can and should investigate and make this better if possible, absolutely. They should also adjust their future marketing and be more careful there. I just don't see the controversy or harsh judgement adds up if this is essentially the mirrorless 5D5.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 3, 2020)

I used my R5 for a wedding (2nd Shooter - video). I can say this... weather was great and averaged at a cool 70-75F degrees with rain and wind throughout the day, but.... the camera performed not so good honestly when it came to 4K120 and 60.

I shot mostly in 1080 24/60 I did have a few moments of shooting 4K120. Each time I switched, it only showed about 1-2 minutes of record time. This was the same for 4K60 with maybe an extra minute added on. This was not very often and very frustrating to switch to 4K120 or 4K60 to only find it’s already overheated. The camera was also not on all the time. Max on time frames would be around 10 minutes. Here and there.

I also had a private shoot yesterday with very similar weather minus the rain. This the was worst of all... shot photos for 20 minutes. Maybe 30 photos were taken since it was a lighting setup. So there was breaking points to adjust lighting etc. I was able to shoot 2 minutes of 4K120 of small clips. Nothing crazy and definitely not the amount I would normally shoot. It was specifically for a test to see performance. Footage looked amazing and the dynamic range did as well. I then went back to photo for about an hour and tried 4K120... overheated... then tried 4K60... overheated...

So to put it as clear as possible. This camera is phenomenal, but so limiting. That is a workflow issue and needs to be addressed. Shooting photos and then facing the temps built up from that and hindering the video features... it’s just not practical or okay imo.


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## Colorado (Aug 3, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I did a fairly thorough overheat test at 85C in direct sun...


85C? Wow you get the gold star award for going above and beyond with your testing. I mean any water you brought with you to stay hydrated would have boiled if it had gottten much hotter.


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## koenkooi (Aug 3, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> I used my R5 for a wedding (2nd Shooter - video). I can say this... weather was great and averaged at a cool 70-75F degrees with rain and wind throughout the day, but.... the camera performed not so good honestly when it came to 4K120 and 60.
> 
> I shot mostly in 1080 24/60 I did have a few moments of shooting 4K120. Each time I switched, it only showed about 1-2 minutes of record time. This was the same for 4K60 with maybe an extra minute added on. [..]



I'm curious why you dropped down to 1080p instead the non-HQ 4k.


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## usern4cr (Aug 3, 2020)

For those of you getting the R5 and wanting an Arca-Swiss baseplate, I just wanted to mention that I just ordered a R5 baseplate & removable L bracket from ReallyRightStuff. Yes, it's expensive, but so is the R5 and all the great RF lenses. I've had the same custom base plate on my EM1_II for years and it fits the entire body bottom like a glove - so well that it makes it even better to grip than it already was. I highly recommend it to anyone wanting the best for their R5. They told me that they expect it to be delivered sometime around the end of August. And no - I'm not getting anything for saying this (but I wish I could have!)


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## bhf3737 (Aug 3, 2020)

Perhaps someone should teach DPReview and a few posters here the difference between "testing" and "torture testing" a system. Dependability can only be defined and measured when testing a system not torture testing it. Better learn your lessons first then try again!


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## Jordan23 (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> ... Despite the fact that stills can trigger thermal protection in 80-90F weather, and despite two user reports that they did encounter thermal issues while shooting stills. I see posts like that and just grin.


That guy from Fred Miranda forum was using an old battery from his 90D, not the new one. Usually this info get lost when trying to make headlines.

Actually most people who got their R5 are reporting no heat issues from shooting stills only at all.


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## Jstnelson (Aug 3, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Shoot with what's good for YOU. PS. Battery life is excellent on the R5. Depends on how you shoot. A Toyota Camary will work for many people. However saying that it's equivalent to a Lexus or an Avalon isn't acknowledging reality.


I've been curious of others' experience with battery life. I've done 3 portrait sessions with OCF on the R5 so far, setting up and moving strobes, testing shots, etc in between shots; camera on the most time. My longest session was about 2 hours and 430 shots and battery indicator was full at the end. I have the battery grip but don't receive my second battery from Adorama until tomorrow so have been using it with 1 battery inserted.

EVF is not on high refresh mode and I only use the EVF ~25% of the time; regularly shooting low to the ground. I would never have to worry about battery life even without my grip.


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## landon (Aug 3, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> For those of you getting the R5 and wanting an Arca-Swiss baseplate, I just wanted to mention that I just ordered a R5 baseplate & removable L bracket from ReallyRightStuff. Yes, it's expensive, but so is the R5 and all the great RF lenses. I've had the same custom base plate on my EM1_II for years and it fits the entire body bottom like a glove - so well that it makes it even better to grip than it already was. I highly recommend it to anyone wanting the best for their R5. They told me that they expect it to be delivered sometime around the end of August. And no - I'm not getting anything for saying this (but I wish I could have!)


You forgot to say you are sponsored by "Square space or Storyblocks or Skillshare"


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I'm curious why you dropped down to 1080p instead the non-HQ 4k.


I was a second shooter. The primary only wanted 1080. If it’s my wedding client and the price makes sense, then I do 4K.


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

Colorado said:


> 85C? Wow you get the gold star award for going above and beyond with your testing. I mean any water you brought with you to stay hydrated would have boiled if it had gottten much hotter.




Typo! *85°F*


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## mpeeps (Aug 3, 2020)

I sure hope all the videographers out there not happy with new R5 limitations cancel their pre-orders so I can get mine sooner.


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## BeenThere (Aug 3, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> "After extensive testing of both cameras, our conclusions with regards internal recording are:
> 
> 
> Both the EOS R5 and R6 appear _capable_ of working as promised
> Lack of dependability makes them a poor choice for much professional video work"


Exactly. If you are using the R5 as your primary video camera, then you are trying to shoot video on the cheap. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but to shoot on the cheap you will likely have to work around some limitations. If you are earning a lot from video, then you know to step up to a dedicated camera that can shoot all day without any limitations. Yeah, the more you earn, the more you are willing to pay for dedicated equipment. If I am putting up a few Utube videos, I can live with a lot of limitations. So, poor choice for much pro video work and great choice for pro stills work. Get the right tools for the job at hand.


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## mpeeps (Aug 3, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> No Comment.
> 
> Article says all one needs to say about the horrible, unreliable, unpredictableness of these new overheating cameras...
> 
> ....but they forgot to talk about the LIE Canon wrote that using an External Fan will help with the overheating issue.


I liked your first No Comment best. Should have stuck with that.


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## Juangrande (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> You're kind of picking and choosing who you want to believe. There are plenty of reviews done on the EOS R5 in a production/work environment, and how difficult it is to deal with the cooldown.
> 
> Even the guy that did your video says you'd probably need multiple bodies to properly do a wedding.
> 
> ...


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## Kiton (Aug 3, 2020)

Maybe the Mods can divide these threads in to two sections:

A) for what the camera does and how to make the best use of the camera

B) for those that want to bitch about everything the camera does not do (it didn't make me an espresso this morning, man I pissed!!)


if you want to shoot reams of 8k, go buy the Red Monstro 8k VV


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## Juangrande (Aug 3, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Exactly. If you are using the R5 as your primary video camera, then you are trying to shoot video on the cheap. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but to shoot on the cheap you will likely have to work around some limitations. If you are earning a lot from video, then you know to step up to a dedicated camera that can shoot all day without any limitations. Yeah, the more you earn, the more you are willing to pay for dedicated equipment. If I am putting up a few Utube videos, I can live with a lot of limitations. So, poor choice for much pro video work and great choice for pro stills work. Get the right tools for the job at hand.


Thank you!


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## mpeeps (Aug 3, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I don't think I'm picking and choosing any more than anyone else, and I wasn't using that link to say 'see the camera is fine for all wedding photographers' just that someone understood the limits and worked within them. The real problem here is the subjectivity of what is "ok" for the R5 and what the camera is designed for. Its weather sealed, strong IBIS, tiny body, powerful AF and processing, high MP- all things that will equal heat and there has to be a compromise somewhere. Canon marketing was quite sloppy but to me it is still ridiculous to expect any product to do more than a manufacturer says it can do on the spec. sheet. Not what we wish it to do, but with what it was designed for and can do. Canon told us what it can do fairly clearly, and it does it. I think perhaps people disagree that they told us enough. Perhaps they needed even more language to define the overheating situation like "previous heating from environment or use may cause further limitations of HQ video modes"?
> 
> I didn't post that video link and say because one guy made a wedding video with the 8K successfully that it was fine as a dedicated wedding or video workhorse for pro video use, we know it has limits. I simply was trying to show an example of someone who proved it _can_ be used with knowledge of those limits where many of the reviews and negative comments are concluding it is a useless camera because of the limits and could never be used professionally. I am pretty sure he also said low res modes and stills were still available, so to me he hit the described limits, and still had a camera.
> 
> I agree that reports of the camera heating up just idling or taking stills before video has begun are concerning and if those remove the HQ video features it may be a problem, but I also have not experienced that with mine. Heating it in the sun does eventually get it hot enough to limit those HQ features, but we're talking about a long soak in the sun. I did a fairly thorough overheat test at 85°F in direct sun for what I think was reasonable use: 30 mins of 4K60, then a bunch of lower res use and stills for 60 mins, then more 4K60. When my unit did shut down, I could still use it for low res and stills. 20-30 mins in AC and I could get more 4K60. So at what point is the camera good enough to not be a failure? I think Canon can and should investigate and make this better if possible, absolutely. They should also adjust their future marketing and be more careful there. I just don't see the controversy or harsh judgement adds up if this is essentially the mirrorless 5D5.


You're being too reasonable.


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> I used my R5 for a wedding (2nd Shooter - video). I can say this... weather was great and averaged at a cool 70-75F degrees with rain and wind throughout the day, but.... the camera performed not so good honestly when it came to 4K120 and 60.
> 
> I shot mostly in 1080 24/60 I did have a few moments of shooting 4K120. Each time I switched, it only showed about 1-2 minutes of record time. This was the same for 4K60 with maybe an extra minute added on. This was not very often and very frustrating to switch to 4K120 or 4K60 to only find it’s already overheated. The camera was also not on all the time. Max on time frames would be around 10 minutes. Here and there.
> 
> ...



Just asking as I am not a wedding or event shooter but is the 4K30P unacceptable quality? Besides the latest offerings by Panasonic and Sony, did you already have a better 4K60 and up solution? Also I wonder if any wedding shooters have tried external recording (seems like it may be cumbersome with speedlights and everything else to manage but I don't know from experience).

I truly hope those wanting FF HQ video modes for professional use can get a solution from Canon, or a combination of using external recorders, but realistically MILC bodies are just so tiny that there is always a compromise in a hybird design. It may take a generation for this level of hybrid to mature much as it did to get non overheating 4K30 in FF when Sony first did it. Until perfected, it seems to me there are plenty of people getting by with the last generation of tools just fine professionally, and there are plenty of options on the market, just maybe no one can do it in one tiny body yet. 

Maybe we will be surprised by a dramatic improvement or fix from Canon, but I'm skeptical physics will allow that. For me I see this camera like 5D5, amazing stills and some basic video that was given too much horsepower for its size. I hope this model is not forever perceived for what it cannot do and given a chance to show what it does do well.


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## thelebaron (Aug 3, 2020)

I hope(most likely in vain  ) that this hubbub encourages canon to jump start the deep discounts early.


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## Etienne (Aug 3, 2020)

This is why it is best to wait for real world testing of new equipment. The R5 / R6 look awesome on paper, but overheating and long cool down times will be far too limiting for many people, including me. I regularly shoot at over 85 F, and this looks impossible for the Canons.
Looks like the Sony A7s III wins for video. (Of course, the peanut gallery will fill up with "pros will only use a dedicated video body" from everyone who has never shot a video, ignoring the ubiquitous use of DSLRs and mirrorless bodies in films and videos around the world. Hint: there's a reason pros DO use these mirrorless bodies and the DSLRs before them on film sets  )


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## Juangrande (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Who the hell wants to carry around multiple bodies for video during a wedding or for anything. Who wants to keep switching mods WORRYING about over heating. You want to work without worrying at all. No one wants added stress to their life.


I used to be a wedding photographer and I only shot stills. The couples always hired a videographer separate, and they didn’t shoot stills. 
But if you want to tackle both jobs then yes you need to have multiple bodies. Me and my partner brought five cameras between the two of us to every event and we only shot stills. We also brought a lot of light gear and modifiers. If you using just one camera to shoot a wedding your living dangerously.


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## Juangrande (Aug 3, 2020)

thelebaron said:


> I hope(most likely in vain  ) that this hubbub encourages canon to jump start the deep discounts early.


That would be great because as a stills only shooter I’d buy two then.


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> You shoot weddings at 8K? What are your computer specs like that you can process 8K video so well?



Honestly? I can see this as a potential selling point. "I capture key moments of your wedding such as vows, first dance, cake cutting in stunning 8K. You can be assured these moments will be cherished and look outstanding for a generation to come"


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> The line skipped/ pixel binned modes equivalent to say, an EOS R?



No, because there's a huge crop on the EOS R, so you'd need to shoot entirely different glass just to make a perspective comparison.


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## lucuias (Aug 3, 2020)

edoorn said:


> well this surprised me too yesterday when I got the signal; I expected the camera to be very hot but it wasn't. Or they've made it in a way the heat stays completely inside


I pull out the card and it is also barely warm.R5 body is made by magnesium alloy.heat would easily transfer out . weather seal usually some rubber in between the gap but metal does transfer heat .and I barely felt the heat .


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## stevensteven (Aug 3, 2020)

Finally a photography review !!! so sick of the temperature reviews. The internet has gotten mad... The only thing that people seem to care about when it comes to cameras since a month is the temperature of the body..


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## landon (Aug 3, 2020)

Juangrande said:


> That would be great because as a stills only shooter I’d buy two then.


I'm from Aus, so Aus pricing. 
For the price of ONE R5, you can buy TWO 5Div (when discount) or TWO R. 
Both 5Div and R and pretty much every other Canon 4K camera can shoot 4K reliably without shutdown. Their 4K is slightly less quality than the R5, but is it worth paying double the 5Div price? 
The R5 was supposed to convert on the fence pro dslr users to the new mount. I wander how many or few will do so, when the 5Div is a workhorse, is half the price, and they can continue with their EF lenses.


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## stevensteven (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> You get 37 minutes of 4K60 Internal, and no overheating with External. Use that, problem solved. And who shoots long segments of 4K120 during a wedding? You do know all of these compact, weather-sealed, fanless cameras overheat, right? This isn't just a R5/R6 thing.



For me, if we could get unlimited 4K HQ 24fps, all the other limits would be totally acceptable... The 4K HQ 24 is the only one im a bit bummed about...


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## stevelee (Aug 3, 2020)

I’m curious about the need for 60 or 120 FPS for weddings. I have’t been to that many weddings with fast-moving action, even the one where the groom was armed with a sword. I could see using those speeds so that the kiss in slow motion would look fabulous. Also 120 will gracefully sample down to either 24 or 30. So if the groom and the bride’s mama can‘t agree on the final product, that could be handy. Otherwise throwing out every other frame or three out of four for final product doesn’t seem to accomplish a lot.

I will admit that I haven’t shot a wedding since the days when instead of video, there was Super-8 film. So I don’t have much idea of contemporary expectations. I suspect it has something to do with soap operas. How common are drones, BTW?


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

Etienne said:


> This is why it is best to wait for real world testing of new equipment. The R5 / R6 look awesome on paper, but overheating and long cool down times will be far too limiting for many people, including me. I regularly shoot at over 85 F, and this looks impossible for the Canons.
> Looks like the Sony A7s III wins for video. (Of course, the peanut gallery will fill up with "pros will only use a dedicated video body" from everyone who has never shot a video, ignoring the ubiquitous use of DSLRs and mirrorless bodies in films and videos around the world. Hint: there's a reason pros DO use these mirrorless bodies and the DSLRs before them on film sets  )



For video, the A7S3 looks amazing and by far the better purchase for that need, but its stills are then compromised (to me) as much or more as the R5 video. I like the nuances of the A7S3 for video not just because it performs, but for the nice details like full size HDMI, hot shoe audio wire path, vertically hinged port covers, and ridiculous low light ability. If I was needing 4K60, I think I'd be looking hard at it as all around it would be more pleasurable for video. I just don't do enough video to need the FF 4K60fps and have a dedicated Sony NXCAM that does wonderful 4K30 and has built in ND and lots of nice video centric stuff. For footage quality alone, the R5 might make my NXCAM redundant. Before the R5 and A7S3, there really was no hybrid FF MILC that could even try to do 4K60 and up was there?

To me the R5 was always going to be a 5D5 from all the press around it. A great stills camera with ho-hum video that will be amazing for casual users and not good enough for many forms of pro work on the video side. You aren't wrong that pros use these size cameras for a reason, but until recently we only had 4K30 on FF, and Canon went the stills bias on their hybrid balancing while Sony went the video way.

I have read some interesting stuff that I cannot verify, that the 5D2 was used for Iron Man 2 in some scenes, and a full episode of House, and some other full feature film (cannot remember which, some war movie) and had overheating issues during some shoots, so they had multiple bodies. Not saying that is a reasonable solution for event photographers, just that we have seen this before in Sony and other bodies: putting the latest horsepower into tiny bodies will just always be a thermal problem and I would almost rather they hold this stuff back to avoid this controversy.


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## quilatoo (Aug 3, 2020)

bhf3737 said:


> Perhaps someone should teach DPReview and a few posters here the difference between "testing" and "torture testing" a system. Dependability can only be defined and measured when testing a system not torture testing it. Better learn your lessons first then try again!


"Doing a wedding shoot" doesn't seem like torture testing though?



landon said:


> I'm from Aus, so Aus pricing.
> For the price of ONE R5, you can buy TWO 5Div (when discount) or TWO R.
> Both 5Div and R and pretty much every other Canon 4K camera can shoot 4K reliably without shutdown. Their 4K is slightly less quality than the R5, but is it worth paying double the 5Div price?
> The R5 was supposed to convert on the fence pro dslr users to the new mount. I wander how many or few will do so, when the 5Div is a workhorse, is half the price, and they can continue with their EF lenses.


The R5 is absolutely the camera to convert me to the RF mount for photography. I just need it to be about 20% cheaper!


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## JustUs7 (Aug 3, 2020)

stevelee said:


> I’m curious about the need for 60 or 120 FPS for weddings. I have’t been to that many weddings with fast-moving action, even the one where the groom was armed with a sword.* I could see using those speeds so that the kiss in slow motion would look fabulous.* Also 120 will gracefully sample down to either 24 or 30. So if the groom and the bride’s mama can‘t agree on the final product, that could be handy. Otherwise throwing out every other frame or three out of four for final product doesn’t seem to accomplish a lot.
> 
> I will admit that I haven’t shot a wedding since the days when instead of video, there was Super-8 film. So I don’t have much idea of contemporary expectations. I suspect it has something to do with soap operas. How common are drones, BTW?



Usually a cringy enough moment live. What on earth would I want to slow it down for?


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## stevelee (Aug 3, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> "Doing a wedding shoot" doesn't seem like torture testing though?


Maybe not for the camera.


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## stevelee (Aug 3, 2020)

FamilyGuy said:


> Usually a cringy enough moment live. What on earth would I want to slow it down for?


I couldn’t think of anything else in a wedding that the couple would want in slomo.


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## landon (Aug 3, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> "Doing a wedding shoot" doesn't seem like torture testing though?
> 
> 
> The R5 is absolutely the camera to convert me to the RF mount for photography. I just need it to be about 20% cheaper!


Yeah. Maybe 50% more expensive, for better Ibis, autofocus and other goodness. But 100% more? 
I'm willing to pay the asking price, if I can also have reliable access to 4kHQ30, and the occasional 4k60 and 4k120. Because I'm essentially paying for two cameras in price.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> No, because there's a huge crop on the EOS R, so you'd need to shoot entirely different glass just to make a perspective comparison.


Was speaking of the 4K quality. There are pretty fast and wide lenses available for EF/RF. Think one would be okay. Lets also keep in mind we're talking about a $3900 camera now.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> For me, if we could get unlimited 4K HQ 24fps, all the other limits would be totally acceptable... The 4K HQ 24 is the only one im a bit bummed about...


I would love this.


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## DBounce (Aug 3, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Where is the controversy other than people want it to do what it was not designed for?



From Canon’s website:
_*“It’s an ideal choice for a large range of photographic and cinematographic environments from weddings, portraits, sports, journalism, landscape, cinematography and more.”*_

Looks like Canon has clearly and publicly stated that the R5 was designed to be the ideal choice for professional video. Do you own this camera? Why do you want to give Canon a pass on these obvious defects? Did you know there are reports of the R5 overheating from only shooting stills? I’m sorry, but if Canon does not directly address these defects this camera is being returned. I’ll cast my vote with my wallet. You are welcomed to do likewise.


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## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> The line skipped/ pixel binned modes equivalent to say, an EOS R?


No, it's full frame.

The crop mode (the one that doesn't overheat) is oversampling and reportedly better than EOS R.


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## BeenThere (Aug 3, 2020)

stevelee said:


> I couldn’t think of anything else in a wedding that the couple would want in slomo.


Maybe the cake smash in the face?


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## cornieleous (Aug 3, 2020)

stevelee said:


> I couldn’t think of anything else in a wedding that the couple would want in slomo.



I wonder about even needing 4K for many things today, certainly news does not use it as final product in many productions, but to consider marketability and future proofing, or leaving room to crop or down sample- I think it makes sense. Plus, people became excited about the possibilities.

60FPS is useful to get smoother looking footage, it just has a look, although blended onto 30fps timelines with other footage....

120FPS for really slowing something down might be useful to catch transitioning expressions or flowers tossed or who knows- I am sure a good creative wedding shooter can make use.

I also concede the point that just being able to advertise you could do these things, when someone else cannot, might be good marketing to get jobs. Just be sure to word the ad as" I can get you 2 mins of 8K, additional 2 minutes cost $3899"  

Regardless, no camera can do it all yet , as much as many wished and hoped when Canon carelessly boasted about their limited features. I'm happy to accept what these cameras are and wait for fixes, or a next generation hybrid that can really do it all.


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## BeenThere (Aug 3, 2020)

DBounce said:


> From Canon’s website:
> _*“It’s an ideal choice for a large range of photographic and cinematographic environments from weddings, portraits, sports, journalism, landscape, cinematography and more.”*_
> 
> Looks like Canon has clearly and publicly stated that the R5 was designed to be the ideal choice for professional video. Do you own this camera? Why do you want to give Canon a pass on these obvious defects? Did you know there are reports of the R5 overheating from only shooting stills? I’m sorry, but if Canon does not directly address these defects this camera is being returned. I’ll cast my vote with my wallet. You are welcomed to do likewise.


No thanks. I have a tight grip on mine.


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## HotPixels (Aug 3, 2020)

This is a really neat trick of misdirection that we're all getting sucked into. I have to hand it to the Sony promoters on social media.

First, these Youtube reviewers basically conduct tests that do nothing but confirm the info that Canon already put out from day one. But they act like they've discovered something new.

Second, they get people to pay attention to video features that most will not use or not use very intensively, and ignore the most important features of the camera for stills.

Someone else asked this on another forum: how many hobbyists use the video features on their mirrorless or DSLRs? Especially for long periods of time? You have to learn about the various video codecs, frame rates, etc...and then edit in complex programs on your computer, and then export for viewing. How many people realistically do that, especially among those who are not pro's?

Among pro's...the one's I know are very prepared. They test equipment before buying it and using it and plan on how they want to use it. The pro's will know what to do and what not to do with this camera. They do not need consumer type reviews.


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## Gloads (Aug 3, 2020)

After suggesting a heat sink cage, SmallRig might come up with something to help: https://www.smallrig.com/blog/no-more-concerns-about-the-overheating-of-canon-r5/


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## DBounce (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That IS NOT how the R5 works, when it gives a temperature warning and shuts off from capturing high resolution video you can immediately turn the camera back on and use it for still and or regular video. The only thing you get locked out of is the highest video specs.
> 
> to reiterate, the R5 NEVER bricks or locks you out of stills or regular video even if it just shutdown.


Yeah, that’s what I used to argue... until I got the camera. Trust me, you are never going to want to shoot normal 4K mode, once you’ve seen the difference in quality to the HQ mode. And also of note: the stills quality decreases when the camera overheats. One last thing... shooting stills alone can overheat this camera.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> No, it's full frame.
> 
> The crop mode (the one that doesn't overheat) is oversampling and reportedly better than EOS R.


Well that is good to know.


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## Colorado (Aug 3, 2020)

Etienne said:


> Looks like the Sony A7s III wins for video.


Um yeah. The 12 MP "hybrid" camera that is 95% video focused and 5% stills focused wins for long-duration video. Is anyone surprised by this?

All this bantering back and forth comes down to one thing. When someone says a small, mirrorless camera is a hybrid camera do you expect it to be stills focused? Or video focused? What split? 50/50? 80/20? 20/80? You can't design a camera that does it all and that will likely always be true. When technology improves and the canon R5 Mark III can do 75MP stills and unlimited 8K video there will be some other feature that it can't do as well as a dedicated video camera (or dedicated stills camera).

When designing the R5 canon went with the 80/20 split. If that upsets you or doesn't meet your needs and you wanted a 5/95 split then obviously the camera is not for you. But they didn't dupe the camera world, they didn't forget (LOL) to add a heat sink, and they aren't going to recall and completely redesign the camera to match YOUR needs. The camera clearly meets a large segment of the market's needs as it is sold out everywhere.


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## DBounce (Aug 3, 2020)

Gloads said:


> After suggesting a heat sink cage, SmallRig might come up with something to help: https://www.smallrig.com/blog/no-more-concerns-about-the-overheating-of-canon-r5/


I know it’s a joke, but sadly covering in ice does little to help. The body is thermally sealed... meaning it’s insulated from both heat and cold. That’s why it’s so hard to cool down.


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## DBounce (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Well that is good to know.


So back to the old... only works with a crop are we? I’m not doing that silliness again.


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## HotPixels (Aug 3, 2020)

Extra...extra...read all about it: Tests confirm Canon was honest in its video specs. 

Most people buying this camera are using it for stills. Yet most reviews and internet chatter center on the video features, and the high end ones at that and involve technical minutiae to really grasp. So are most reviewers relevant any longer?


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Colorado said:


> Um yeah. The 12 MP "hybrid" camera that is 95% video focused and 5% stills focused wins for long-duration video. Is anyone surprised by this?
> 
> All this bantering back and forth comes down to one thing. When someone says a small, mirrorless camera is a hybrid camera do you expect it to be stills focused? Or video focused? What split? 50/50? 80/20? 20/80? You can't design a camera that does it all and that will likely always be true. When technology improves and the canon R5 Mark III can do 75MP stills and unlimited 8K video there will be some other feature that it can't do as well as a dedicated video camera (or dedicated stills camera).
> 
> When designing the R5 canon went with the 80/20 split. If that upsets you or doesn't meet your needs and you wanted a 5/95 split then obviously the camera is not for you. But they didn't dupe the camera world, they didn't forget (LOL) to add a heat sink, and they aren't going to recall and completely redesign the camera to match YOUR needs. The camera clearly meets a large segment of the market's needs as it is sold out everywhere.


Are the splits here based on your opinion? Don't think any video shooter is asking for 8K. People will always want more, and thats a good thing.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

Colorado said:


> Um yeah. The 12 MP "hybrid" camera that is 95% video focused and 5% stills focused wins for long-duration video. Is anyone surprised by this?
> 
> All this bantering back and forth comes down to one thing. When someone says small, mirrorless camera is a hybrid camera do you expect it to be stills focused? Or video focused? What split? 50/50? 80/20? 20/80? You can't design a camera that does it all and that will likely always be true. When technology improves and the canon R5 Mark III can do 75MP stills and unlimited 8K video there will be some other feature that it can't do as well as a dedicated video camera (or dedicated stills camera).
> 
> When designing the R5 canon went with the 80/20 split. If that upsets you or doesn't meet your needs and you wanted a 5/95 split then obviously the camera is not for you. But they didn't dupe the camera world, they didn't forget (LOL) to add a heat sink, and they aren't going to recall and completely redesign the camera to match YOUR needs. The camera clearly meets a large segment of the market's needs as it is sold out everywhere.



Most people don’t actually use these things. They are just gear heads talking. People that will actually use these bodies recognize what they are. The R5 is probably the best overall stills camera Canon has ever made; the Sony is something new for the industry, it’s essentially a low end cinema camera in a DSLR form factor ( minus the built in nds, connections etc). It is absolutely going to be the best tool for low budget long form video people. 

The Sony is absolute crap as a photo camera, but everyone knew what it would be, as Sony didn’t sell it as a be all. 

Canon’s big mistake was selling this thing as the ultimate hybrid body. If they would have marketed it as the best overall stills camera, that happens to do a little video, the market would have responded much differently to the limitations. 

This is a massive marketing blunder for Canon. 

I can’t wait to get an R5 of my own though (as a stills guy). Hopefully people complain enough to suppress the price while I pick up more lenses first ;-).


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## stevelee (Aug 3, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I wonder about even needing 4K for many things today, certainly news does not use it as final product in many productions, but to consider marketability and future proofing, or leaving room to crop or down sample- I think it makes sense. Plus, people became excited about the possibilities.
> 
> 60FPS is useful to get smoother looking footage, it just has a look, although blended onto 30fps timelines with other footage....
> 
> ...


I have used 4k on my iPhone for cropping purposes, so I understand that, though see less point if you have zoom and interchangeable lenses.

I didn’t think about the flower toss. That would be a good use. Even the rice tossing could be nice. But I wonder about shooting the whole wedding at 120 just to get a few seconds of slomo when the events are predictable enough to allow changing speeds.

Do photographers really deliver videos at 60fps? Editing down to 30fps, software will just skip frames. You could shoot at 30 using the faster shutter speed for the same effect, which is often considered less smooth. That’s why I mentioned soaps.

I really hoped for a reply from a wedding photographer who actually needs these speeds for some reason.


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## bhf3737 (Aug 3, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> "Doing a wedding shoot" doesn't seem like torture testing though?



DP Review: Both the EOS R5 and R6 appear capable of working as promised
Wikipedia: Torture testing involves testing beyond normal operational capacity, often to a breaking point, in order to observe the results.

You connect the dots.


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## Colorado (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Are the splits here based on your opinion? Don't think any video shooter is asking for 8K. People will always want more, and thats a good thing.


The splits are arbitrary for the purposes of discussion. 

What is clear is that Canon designed the R5 as a stills camera and then added complimentary video features. It can be thought of as a best-in-class 45MP stills camera (with top level AF, IBIS, DR, sharpness, colors) that does full frame 4K video (something that people slammed previous Canon cameras for lacking) with additional cutting edge video features like 8K that are heat limited.

How could Canon have improved the video? Sony already showed how. Reduce the MP down to 12. No 8K or 4KHQ modes. Stills output reduced from class leading to "uh, well, it is good for postage stamp sized social media". There are compromises either way depending on which direction you want the split to go--I'll let you assign numbers for yourself.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Aug 3, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Finally a photography review !!! so sick of the temperature reviews. The internet has gotten mad... The only thing that people seem to care about when it comes to cameras since a month is the temperature of the body..



What a nice relaxing video. A welcome break from the outrage droning everywhere.

and lol @ the A7SIII stills side by side comparisons for kicks.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> You're kind of picking and choosing who you want to believe. There are plenty of reviews done on the EOS R5 in a *[VIDEO] *production/work environment, and how difficult it is to deal with the cooldown.
> 
> Even the guy that did your video says you'd probably need multiple bodies to properly do a wedding.
> 
> No one is disputing the quality of the footage.


Why? That is the question so many people are asking, I want to see pro photographers results not production video shooters work. If I was interested in a C200 vs C300 then Gerald and Armando, PotatoJet et al would be great references, BUT the R5 is predominantly a stills orientated hybrid along the lines of the α7R IV, and Canon never said otherwise.

If you are going to compare cameras how does the R5 compare to either the 5D MkIV or the α7R IV? If you are going to rig it up with thousands of dollars worth of video grip gear and use it as you would your C500 don't be surprised when it lets you down because it cost 1/3 the price!


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

But Gerald Man-Bun says....


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

drama said:


> we’re three pages in and you’re coming up with subjective responses to every objective point. Can we move on? You’ve said you don’t think the camera is good. Don’t buy one. Other cameras exist.
> 
> next point anyone?


I just wont sit back and kiss company ass. Things get better when people demand better. Never seen the point of being complacent or loyal objects unless they worth hard for your personal gain.


cornieleous said:


> This is not a purpose built sports or events camera. My point in the above post was that professionals rather than perpetual whiners can understand their tools and apply them successfully. Do you really think no one ever used the overheating Sony bodies in the past to shoot a wedding?
> 
> Stop being emotional and go buy something else then. I think everyone else except you whining emotional lot are sick of hearing about everything this camera cannot do according to the mighty internet. I own this camera, have already tested it in many scenarios, and it works for my realistic needs.


You are sick of seeing text on a forum you don't agree with yet call me emotional. Make this all make some sense!


----------



## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

All the Canon faithful freaking out when the R5 is rightly criticized . . . Guys, the camera overheats when shooting stills, too. All actions people take with the camera (reviewing pics, video, using the Live View screen) apparently contribute to heat, which eventually leads to shutdowns. Even with stills alone, I wouldn’t shoot a wedding with a single R5 body, because what if it overheats at a critical moment? Ironic that the first Canon mirrorless with dual card slots STILL can’t be trusted solo.

Does that happen with the 5D mk. IV? No? Well, then the R5 isn’t an ideal replacement. Hence: this post.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Why? That is the question so many people are asking, I want to see pro photographers results not production video shooters work. If I was interested in a C200 vs C300 then Gerald and Armando, PotatoJet et al would be great references, BUT the R5 is predominantly a stills orientated hybrid along the lines of the α7R IV, and Canon never said otherwise.
> 
> If you are going to compare cameras how does the R5 compare to either the 5D MkIV or the α7R IV? If you are going to rig it up with thousands of dollars worth of video grip gear and use it as you would your C500 don't be surprised when it lets you down because it cost 1/3 the price!


Its because video specs were the most glamorized features of the camera for months.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Its because video specs were the most glamorized features of the camera for months.


That is utter bullshit. Canon never claimed or suggested it could do more than it does, never. First off people were saying the 8k would be fake upsample and on and on, that wasn't Canon that was the influencers and the rumor sites. Canon said it would shoot 8k RAW internal, it does, they never said sell your RED Monstro and shoot Lord of the Rings 12 on this.


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## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> properly do a wedding.




I properly did a wedding like four decades ago. Mine. Don't care if I ever do another one.

I've looked at the photos like twice, maybe thrice since.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> All the Canon faithful freaking out when the R5 is rightly criticized . . . Guys, the camera overheats when shooting stills, too. All actions people take with the camera (reviewing pics, video, using the Live View screen) apparently contribute to heat, which eventually leads to shutdowns. Even with stills alone, I wouldn’t shoot a wedding with a single R5 body, because what if it overheats at a critical moment? Ironic that the first Canon mirrorless with dual card slots STILL can’t be trusted solo.
> 
> Does that happen with the 5D mk. IV? No? Well, then the R5 isn’t an ideal replacement. Hence: this post.



LOL. No it doesn't. This is why posts like yours need to be called out for the complete and total BS they are. 

The body DOES NOT OVERHEAT WHEN SHOOTING STILLS. YOU WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO SHOOT STILLS in even hot weather, and extreme conditions. 

There is a difference between using the body and that use contributing to the heat lockout for HQ video, and that use contributing to a heat lock out for stills.

NOBODY besides two random people on the internet posting on message forums has provided ANY evidence, or even a suggestion that it overheats with stills. To the contrary there are plenty of videos that state that IT NEVER GETS LOCKED OUT OF STILLS.


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## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> All the Canon faithful freaking out when the R5 is rightly criticized . . . Guys, the camera overheats when shooting stills, too.


The camera itself or an older model battery in it?


----------



## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That is utter bullshit. Canon never claimed or suggested it could do more than it does, never. First off people were saying the 8k would be fake upsample and on and on, that wasn't Canon that was the influencers and the rumor sites. Canon said it would shoot 8k RAW internal, it does, they never said sell your RED Monstro and shoot Lord of the Rings 12 on this.


If BMW [pick your brand] releases a sports car with high power, good acceleration, and reasonable price, I'd be excited.
If it then turns out that the car can do it only for 20min before dropping to the performance of the base model, I'd be annoyed.
No, that does not mean that I want to take the car racing.


----------



## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> LOL. No it doesn't. This is why posts like yours need to be called out for the complete and total BS they are.
> 
> *The body DOES NOT OVERHEAT WHEN SHOOTING STILLS. YOU WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO SHOOT STILLS in even hot weather, and extreme conditions.*
> 
> ...



Evidence?


----------



## Juangrande (Aug 3, 2020)

landon said:


> I'm from Aus, so Aus pricing.
> For the price of ONE R5, you can buy TWO 5Div (when discount) or TWO R.
> Both 5Div and R and pretty much every other Canon 4K camera can shoot 4K reliably without shutdown. Their 4K is slightly less quality than the R5, but is it worth paying double the 5Div price?
> The R5 was supposed to convert on the fence pro dslr users to the new mount. I wander how many or few will do so, when the 5Div is a workhorse, is half the price, and they can continue with their EF lenses.


Well I’ll be upgrading for the AF, tilt screen, and higher MP and the RF glass (and the EF adaptation) I’ll probably never use the video as never even looked at the video menus on my Mk4 let alone shot any video at all with it.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 3, 2020)

mppix said:


> If BMW [pick your brand] releases a next sport car with 200HP+, good acceleration, and reasonable price, I'd be excited.
> If it then turns out that the car can do it only for 20min before dropping to the performance of the base model, I'd be annoyed.
> No, that does not mean that I want to take the car racing.


OK, Spend $2,500,000 on a 250mph Bugatti and get pissed when it runs out of a full tank of fuel after 12 minutes, because that is what it does and that is life my friend. So run your Chiron performance for 12 minutes and your $2,500,000 is a brick, the $4,000 Canon will still keep shooting video and stills because it will never brick like a Chiron out of fuel.


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## Juangrande (Aug 3, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> "Doing a wedding shoot" doesn't seem like torture testing though?
> 
> 
> The R5 is absolutely the camera to convert me to the RF mount for photography. I just need it to be about 20% cheaper!


I think they should have taken the more high end video specs out and made it a stills centered body with just a flippy screen rather than fully articulated as regular flipping is better for stills (think waist level shooting and holding above your head) And then made an un weather sealed version with an internal fan for the video set with all the video bells and whistles and priced them both accordingly.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Evidence?



I had to LOL at the request considering your claim, but I'll bite.

Here are just a few of the multitude of reviews that relay zero shut down with stills...
















The list can go on, and on... several of these specifically speak to using stills post video shutdown in harsh conditions (like out hiking in maui).

Tons of videos from well respected content creators talking about how stills is never down.

Now... where's the evidence to support your claim?

Let me guess.... some message board posts.


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> Tons of videos from well respected content creators talking about how stills is never down.
> 
> Now... where's the evidence to support your claim?



try the manual, page 284


----------



## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> try the manual, page 284



Quote the part of that page which indicates shooting photos will render the camera inoperable.


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Quote the part of that page which indicates shooting photos will render the camera inoperable.


----------



## degos (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> BUT the R5 is predominantly a stills orientated hybrid along the lines of the α7R IV, and Canon never said otherwise.



"The EOS R5 uncompromising performance will revolutionise your photography and filmmaking."

Uncompromising*!

* Includes compromises


----------



## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Quote the part of that page which indicates shooting photos will render the camera inoperable.



The manual clearly implies that you can overheat the camera to the point of inoperability shooting only stills. All you have to do is follow the logic in an if/then fashion.

(all quotes are from the R5 manual, page 284)

*"General Still Photo Shooting Precautions"*

if: "frequent shooting over an extended period may cause high internal temperatures"
and: "white or red icons indicate high internal camera temperature"
and: "the white icon indicates that the image quality of still photos will decline"
and: "the red icon indicates that shooting will soon be terminated automatically"

then it follows that shooting still photos can make the camera inoperable due to heat (and also, at lower temperatures, decrease the quality of still photos).


----------



## sanj (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> You shoot weddings at 8K? What are your computer specs like that you can process 8K video so well?


Ever heard of 'proxy'??


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

Should we pull up the manual from the 5D? It's literally the exact same warning.

From any Sony?

From any Nikon?

They all have similar warnings.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> The manual clearly implies that you can overheat the camera to the point of inoperability shooting only stills. All you have to do is follow the logic in an if/then fashion.
> 
> (all quotes are from the R5 manual, page 284)
> 
> ...



Why did you stop directly quoting when it came to the specific point you are trying to make?


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> The manual clearly implies that you can overheat the camera to the point of inoperability shooting only stills. All you have to do is follow the logic in an if/then fashion.
> 
> (all quotes are from the R5 manual, page 284)
> 
> ...



So, if I show you manuals from every camera ever made that shows this... I guess it's a wash?


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## sanj (Aug 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Please stop with the "Long 120p takes" strawman. It's cumulative, doing a few, short 120p shots has the same effect as a single, long 120p shot.


I do not understand. If you shoot a clip for 5 mins and then shoot again after 10 mins will the camera not cool down a bit in between?


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## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Honestly? I can see this as a potential selling point. "I capture key moments of your wedding such as vows, first dance, cake cutting in stunning 8K. You can be assured these moments will be cherished and look outstanding for a generation to come"


It would be a great selling point, but how many of us have computers capable of processing 8K video and it not taking forever? And what other options do we have for shooting a day's worth of 8K using a single camera at this time? These are all hypothetical scenarios that would be great to have, but Canon gave us the most they could on the video side, while still keeping the stills features attractive.


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## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Why did you stop directly quoting when it came to the specific point you are trying to make?



I made my point without compromise. What's your point?


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I made my point without compromise. What's your point?



You didn't though. You said that page 284 of the manual says the camera will shut down due to heat from taking photos. You quoted many specific lines, but nothing that backs up your claim.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I made my point without compromise. What's your point?



You haven't made a single point. Where's the evidence for your claim that someone had stills lock out? Post it.


----------



## Cat_Interceptor (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> 'You're not paying attention to what the issue is.




There is no issue. It works exactly as Canon said it would and frankly this whining about overheating is getting stupid


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## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> Ever heard of 'proxy'??


The main point I was making is...if you want to shoot a full day's worth of 8K video, the R5 isn't for you. If you look back at Canon's releases, they all say things about it being a great supporting camera to a Cinema camera. All this complaining and whining isn't going to get Canon to magically allow the R5 to shoot an hour's worth of 8K or some other HQ formats without overheating.


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## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> You haven't made a single point. Where's the evidence for your claim that someone had stills lock out? Post it.





twoheadedboy said:


> You didn't though. You said that page 284 of the manual says the camera will shut down due to heat from taking photos. You quoted many specific lines, but nothing that backs up your claim.



. . . I'm just reading the manual, dudes.


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> Should we pull up the manual from the 5D? It's literally the exact same warning.
> 
> From any Sony?
> 
> ...



yes please show me where those cameras state they will overheat while shooting stills? and show me where your image quality will be compromised without a warning. and where the camera overheats when its just turned on and doing nothing.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Does that happen with the 5D mk. IV? No? Well, then the R5 isn’t an ideal replacement. Hence: this post.



Page


navastronia said:


> . . . I'm just reading the manual, dudes.



You claim to have a 5d... check page 577. It's the same warning.


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> . . . I'm just reading the manual, dudes.


Same stuff in the EOS R manual... Page 142
Same as the 90D Page 269.

This has all been covered over at DPReview... Maybe there is an option to delete posts pulled directly out of your ass on CanonRumors.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> yes please show me where those cameras state they will overheat while shooting stills? and show me where your image quality will be compromised without a warning. and where the camera overheats when its just turned on and doing nothing.



Check page 577?

And it seems like you don't realize that heat degrades the IQ for all sensors.... all of them... as in every single one ever made... whether they show a warning or not.


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## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> The main point is...if you want to shoot a full day's worth of 8K video, the R5 isn't for you. If you look back at Canon's releases, they all say things about it being a great supporting camera to a Cinema camera. All this complaining and whining isn't going to get Canon to magically allow the R5 to shoot an hour's worth of 8K or some other HQ formats without overheating.



nah thats not the point at all, this camera wont work even as an occasional video camera (in 8k or 4k HQ) if you also want to shoot stills or you know just leave the camera on at all. forget about all day, not even an hour of regular use.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> . . . I'm just reading the manual, dudes.


Desperately searching for anything ... we know. How about posting that evidence that someone successfully locked out the camera from stills? We are all waiting.


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## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> nah thats not the point at all, this camera wont work even as an occasional video camera (in 8k or 4k HQ) if you also want to shoot stills or you know just leave the camera on at all. forget about all day, not even an hour of regular use.



Okay, then buy a camera that will shoot 8K for more than an hour. Let me know how much you spend.


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## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Okay, then buy a camera that will shoot 8K for more than an hour. Let me know how much you spend.



again youre saying more than an hour, but its more like a few minutes, unless its from a cold start. and then cool down for 2 hours to shoot again, what kind of professional would work like this?

even from a cold start its 30 minutes, but that's only continuous, the clock is running as long as the camera is on. 

are you this much of a fan boy?


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> nah thats not the point at all, this camera wont work even as an occasional video camera (in 8k or 4k HQ) if you also want to shoot stills or you know just leave the camera on at all. forget about all day, not even an hour of regular use.


“This played out for DPRTV‘s Jordan Drake in real life. When shooting their EOS R6 review above on the R5, he avoided taking certain spontaneous shots, always had to keep the countdown timer in mind, and spent a lot of mental energy rationing the over-sampled 4K HQ footage and especially 4K/120p, which “really chews up your remaining shooting minutes.”









DPReview: Canon EOS R5 Overheating is a Problem in Real World Use


When Canon released the EOS R5 and EOS R6, they made it clear right away that both cameras were thermally limited when shooting 8K (R5) or oversampled 4K




petapixel.com


----------



## Jordan23 (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> yes please show me where those cameras state they will overheat while shooting stills? and show me where your image quality will be compromised without a warning. and where the camera overheats when its just turned on and doing nothing.


Check this Sony support-page


https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00186874


"If you're using your camera to record long movie clips or *shooting many continuous bursts of still pictures*, the temperature inside the camera increases. If the temperature becomes too high, *a warning icon may appear and the camera shuts down to protect the circuitry.* This isn't a failure and your camera simply needs to be turned off for several minutes so it can cool down. "

It shouldn't be of much trouble for you to just check camera-manuals from various brands.


----------



## RobbieHat (Aug 3, 2020)

I am not a video person and am buying this camera for the amazing upgrade in stills photography it will provide me. I also know that Canon targeted this camera as a replacement for the 5D Mark IV. That is a professional/semi-professional camera used by tons of event and wedding photographers. Many of those users have incorporated video into their portfolio of services and workflow. Thus I can understand everyone's frustrations and anxiety. 

As a relatively uninterested observer I would offer a few perspectives. First, the vitriol about this camera and these limitations has been amazing and sad to see. It is a camera. It has positives and limitations over prior Canon offerings and other companies offerings. The internet and many forum posts have become a cesspool of anger and screaming over this offering especially since it was introduced within days of a video-centric offering with lower specs by Sony. The brand camps have gone completely nuts and I will probably quit going to DPReview as a results. The Sony camp has gone crazy trashing this Canon offering and the few Canon folks that are left on that forum are completely defensive and protective of a camera that clearly has some pros and cons depending on what and how you shoot. 

Second, I also observe that even with some of the more negative reviews and comparisons have offered some interesting alternatives to overcome any deficiencies. Tony Northrup (often derided as anti-Canon) was quit complimentary of this enhancements in performance of DR, high ISO noise, shadow recovery, focusing system, IBIS, etc. These are all critical to my style of shooting and make me quite excited. Gordon (or whatever his name is) that performed the lengthy study related to each video setting and how long it would take to overheat also indicated that adding an Atomos Ninja external recording device would greatly expand the recording time even in higher resolution settings. I know this might not be a preferred or viable option for everyone, but if I were shooting this camera and had to spend less than $1000 to greatly enhance my video needs I think it would be a no brainer. I am sure I will be told how stupid I am and how naive my perspective is, but I plan to test the video when I receive my camera (to enhance some of my BIF shooting) and if I like the results and can work with the footage, I will likely add an Atomos to my kit to better leverage the feature. 

We also don't know what creative solutions Canon will come up with to address some of the deficiencies (cooling adapter, firmware fixes, usage recommendations, etc.) but I expect once this camera gets into the masses hands it will not be the end of the world some want to make it out as. 

Everyone needs to take three deep breaths, step away from their PC and go shoot some puppies, flowers and children. 

Bob


----------



## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> Desperately searching for anything ... we know. How about posting that evidence that someone successfully locked out the camera from stills? We are all waiting.



I dunno why you're taking this personally.


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

Jordan23 said:


> Check this Sony support-page
> 
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00186874
> ...



Where does it mention stills here?


----------



## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> OK, Spend $2,500,000 on a 250mph Bugatti and get pissed when it runs out of a full tank of fuel after 12 minutes, because that is what it does and that is life my friend. So run your Chiron performance for 12 minutes and your $2,500,000 is a brick, the $4,000 Canon will still keep shooting video and stills because it will never brick like a Chiron out of fuel.



To me, Canon did not promise a supercar (lik Bugatti or Ferrari), they promised an Audi RS4 or BMW M5 (still 450HP) but delivered (mostly) a 150HP Audi A4 or BMW 5xx! 

In camera language, the R5 [even without overheating] won't replace the "supercar" cinema cameras (like Arris, RED's, or C500/700's) anytime soon. However as is, it is not much better than what is available in class for most use cases.

This is all fine, just announce the venerable A4 that you build.


----------



## dlee13 (Aug 3, 2020)

I'm most curious to see their weather sealing considering how well it's keeping the heat in.


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> “This played out for DPRTV‘s Jordan Drake in real life. When shooting their EOS R6 review above on the R5, he avoided taking certain spontaneous shots, always had to keep the countdown timer in mind, and spent a lot of mental energy rationing the over-sampled 4K HQ footage and especially 4K/120p, which “really chews up your remaining shooting minutes.”
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And this is the real problem, i cant shoot freely, im always worried that the camera could overheat so i have to conserve my use of the camera. Eventually you'll miss an important moment, thats why i wouldnt buy this camera, unless these issues were fixed.


----------



## Jordan23 (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> Where does it mention stills here?


In the first paragraph on the page, in bold in my first post.


----------



## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> again youre saying more than an hour, but its more like a few minutes, unless its from a cold start. and then cool down for 2 hours to shoot again, what kind of professional would work like this?
> 
> even from a cold start its 30 minutes, but that's only continuous, the clock is running as long as the camera is on.
> 
> are you this much of a fan boy?



Where is your evidence that it will shorten video time when the camera is doing absolutely nothing? All the reviews I've seen say stills shooting will cut down the time, chimping or going through settings might lower the time, but you keep on saying if it's just on and not doing anything.

Also, you yourself posted this:





Canon R5 overheating issues and recording times


https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-has-serious-overheating-issues-in-both-4k-and-8k/ Where were these images taken from? it looks like they could be from the manual?




www.canonrumors.com





Showing Canon clearly mentioned the limits and that using the camera for other things can lower the time. So why are you so shocked and upset that the camera is doing exactly what Canon said it would, unless you're a Sony fanboy?


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Where is your evidence that it will shorten video time when the camera is doing absolutely nothing? All the reviews I've seen say stills shooting will cut down the time, chimping or going through settings might lower the time, but you keep on saying if it's just on and not doing anything.
> 
> Also, you yourself posted this:
> 
> ...



here is is


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287197307398692864


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> And this is the real problem, i cant shoot freely, im always worried that the camera could overheat so i have to conserve my use of the camera. Eventually you'll miss an important moment, thats why i wouldnt buy this camera, unless these issues were fixed.



When it comes to video.... yeah this is an issue. When it comes to stills... no it's not.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I dunno why you're taking this personally.



I'm not. Why do you keep delaying? Why can't you just post some evidence for your claim? Is it because you can't? That's cool... just say so.


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> When it comes to video.... yeah this is an issue. When it comes to stills... no it's not.



try to shoot long exposure timelapses, i bet it overheats and shuts down


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> here is is
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287197307398692864



Yes, it's well documented any use will add up on that video time. Where does it say it locks out of stills? It doesn't. In fact in his live stream he specifically states it never locks out of 4k24, or stills.


----------



## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> I'm not. Why do you keep delaying? Why can't you just post some evidence for your claim? Is it because you can't? That's cool... just say so.



What evidence would you like, specifically?


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> It over heats in these modes. 4k60, 4k120, 4k24hq, and 4k30hq. at least 3 of them are good to shoot a 2020/2021AD wedding in.



If the Canon falls short in your particular needs then perhaps you shouldn’t buy it and should instead pursue a purchase of something that does.

Seems reasonable to me.


----------



## 1D4 (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> here is is
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287197307398692864


Exactly, thank you for proving my point. Shooting for 1 hour is not "turning the camera on and doing nothing", as you've continued to post.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> What evidence would you like, specifically?


----------



## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


>



It's a fast-moving thread, Mr. Santa. I'm just looking for clarity


----------



## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> Yes, it's well documented any use will add up on that video time. Where does it say it locks out of stills? It doesn't. In fact in his live stream he specifically states it never locks out of 4k24, or stills.



he later clarified that he took 30-40 photos, thats 1 photo every 2 minutes, if you think thats not an issue you're delusional


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

miketcool said:


> My R5 is fine. YouTube gear specs junkies don’t make art, they make controversy for views. Imma go shoot some art while the internet plays tribal adventure.




Please post samples. I’m very disappointed that more examples of what this beauty can do aren’t up yet. I’d be a one man flood if I had mine.


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## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


>



If you want evidence that "the R5 will overheat and refuse to shoot still images, while shooting still images, alone (no video)," well, Canon's manual implies this can happen and forumers posting here have said, anecdotally, that it has happened to them.

Given I don't own an R5, myself, I can't go out and test it, but I look forward to others doing so, and I have absolute certainty that when they do, someone will share their findings here


----------



## Mike9129 (Aug 3, 2020)

The 8k situation is completely understandable. Im not going to give out to them for that.

What is disappointing tho is the 4k 120fps and 4k 24p HQ modes overheating so fast.
The video quality is so damn good out of them that it sucks that we have the overheating problem. 

On the other hands, it's a rock'n'roll star of a stills camera

It'd be nice if they could do some firmware fiddling to give us 4k 120 that would have a lower compression or some such that would produce less heat.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> If you want evidence that "the R5 will overheat and refuse to shoot still images, while shooting still images, alone (no video)," well, Canon's manual implies this can happen and forumers posting here have said, anecdotally, that it has happened to them.
> 
> Given I don't own an R5, myself, I can't go out and test it, but I look forward to others doing so, and I have absolute certainty that when they do, someone will share their findings here



Don't worry dude, we can tell you don't have an R5, among other things.


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## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

edoorn said:


> They should've promoted it primarily as an amazing stills camera (which it is), with some very good video features that have a compromise at the highest settings.




Oddly, I never expected anything different from this.

I keep reading about this misleading marketing and I think I need to work on my reading comprehension. Somehow I missed that this is supposed to be the be-all high end video camera with the ability to take stills thrown in.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> If you want evidence that "the R5 will overheat and refuse to shoot still images, while shooting still images, alone (no video)," well, Canon's manual implies this can happen and forumers posting here have said, anecdotally, that it has happened to them.
> 
> Given I don't own an R5, myself, I can't go out and test it, but I look forward to others doing so, and I have absolute certainty that when they do, someone will share their findings here



No it doesn't. You inferred this, incorrectly.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Oddly, I never expected anything different from this.
> 
> I keep reading about this misleading marketing and I think I need to work on my reading comprehension. Somehow I missed that this is supposed to be the be-all high end video camera with the ability to take stills thrown in.



When you hear 45 MP, you should instantly know that it probably won't be cutting edge for video; that said, Canon did lead with the video specs and 8k. They bungled the messaging on the release.


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## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

I dont understand it. Why is the performance of the R5 described so badly?

- There is NO Fullframe camera in that Formfactor that funs longer in 4k60. *NONE*! Even the totaly video centric Sony A7S III overheats faster.
Or am I missing something?

The S1H is bigger and got only S35 in 60 fps.
The only other Fullframe is another Canon, the 1DX III (though also much bigger).

The headline should be: *"Canon builds best 4k60 camera, which runs longest and also offers 8k and is one of the best photo-cameras on the market"*


Also, keep in mind: even after a full overheat, you can switch IMMEDIATLY to another recording mode like 4k30 which will never overheat. There is no cooldown necessary. I just tested it.
Also, its said that 4k60 works without overheat if you use an external recorder.


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## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

derpderp said:


> isn't ur 90D an APSC camera?



Yes. Very nice crop-body.


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## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> I do not understand. If you shoot a clip for 5 mins and then shoot again after 10 mins will the camera not cool down a bit in between?


Some cooldown, sure, but it is 30min-2h to fully cool down (depending who you ask).
Good thing is it never locks you out from shooting stills or basic video modes.



1D4 said:


> Exactly, thank you for proving my point. Shooting for 1 hour is not "turning the camera on and doing nothing", as you've continued to post.






FYI, he's a Canon shooter and defended the video capabilities of the R.


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## TAF (Aug 3, 2020)

I anxiously await the 50% price drop as sales plummet and the used market is saturated by dissatisfied buyers who are angry about the overheating problem.

Any wagers on when that will be?


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## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

Mike9129 said:


> And this is the real problem, i cant shoot freely, im always worried that the camera could overheat so i have to conserve my use of the camera. Eventually you'll miss an important moment, thats why i wouldnt buy this camera, unless these issues were fixed.


It wont overheat in 4k60 with an external recorder. use that, problem solved.
Also, there is NO 4k60 fullframe camera on the market in a similar formfactor that can run as long as the canon without overheating. So basicaly there is no camera on the market for you ;-)


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

Mike9129 said:


> The 8k situation is completely understandable. Im not going to give out to them for that.
> 
> What is disappointing tho is the 4k 120fps and 4k 24p HQ modes overheating so fast.
> The video quality is so damn good out of them that it sucks that we have the overheating problem.
> ...



Remember that the HQ modes are downsampled, which is why they look better than anyone else 4k, and why they are basically getting the same run times as the 8k. The 4k120 requires more internal processing, and is the worst of the bunch in terms of heat generation.


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## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

TAF said:


> I anxiously await the 50% price drop as sales plummet and the used market is saturated by dissatisfied buyers who are angry about the overheating problem.
> 
> Any wagers on when that will be?



Dont forget the R5 Mark II which canon will rush to market to make up for the hardware shortcomings of this camera. I say by christmas 2021, depending on the second wave and canon's ever plummeting stock price.


----------



## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> All the Canon faithful freaking out when the R5 is rightly criticized . . . Guys, the camera overheats when shooting stills, too. All actions people take with the camera (reviewing pics, video, using the Live View screen) apparently contribute to heat, which eventually leads to shutdowns. Even with stills alone, I wouldn’t shoot a wedding with a single R5 body, because what if it overheats at a critical moment? Ironic that the first Canon mirrorless with dual card slots STILL can’t be trusted solo.


I was shooting today very extensively with the R5 in the sun and there was no sign of an overheat. It may happen, but I can not realy belive that it will. I will make sure to report here if it does.


----------



## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

DBounce said:


> From Canon’s website:
> _*“It’s an ideal choice for a large range of photographic and cinematographic environments from weddings, portraits, sports, journalism, landscape, cinematography and more.”*_
> 
> Looks like Canon has clearly and publicly stated that the R5 was designed to be the ideal choice for professional video. Do you own this camera? Why do you want to give Canon a pass on these obvious defects? Did you know there are reports of the R5 overheating from only shooting stills? I’m sorry, but if Canon does not directly address these defects this camera is being returned. I’ll cast my vote with my wallet. You are welcomed to do likewise.



I do own the camera. 
I dont see why it shouldnt be a profesisonal video tool. Its not video centric (given alone the fact that it hase a MICRO hdmi port). But its a great tool.
Please remember: there is NO 4k60 camera on the market in that form factor with a fullframe that can shoot THAT long. AND the R5 wont overheat in 4k60 if you use an external recorder. 
If it overheats, you can allways switch to 4k30.
4k30 HQ is basicaly an 8k image which is saved in a 4k image. Its not very surprising that an 8k readout overheats. Again there is NO FF camera in that class that can even do 4k60 longer than the R5 - and there is NOTHING ANYWHERE near of an 8k imge.
Canon did communicate this 100% transparent (unlike other companies). The camera performs 100% as promised. I can not see ANY sign of a defect in my camera and its hard to belive that it actualy overheatet just from stills.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

mpeeps said:


> I liked your first No Comment best. Should have stuck with that.



Nailed it. I knew it was too good to be true. Now he’s doing the same old complaints in color..


----------



## Edward Winter (Aug 3, 2020)

All the vitriol witnessed here is pretty lame - almost as lame as brand loyalty. Personally, I'm just thrilled to have some updated bodies with much improved dynamic range, low light ability & the potential to use that baller new RF50mm. I think most photographers grossly overestimate their gear needs and, as a business owner, if I can get away with buying less gadgets I definitely will!


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## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

Etienne said:


> This is why it is best to wait for real world testing of new equipment. The R5 / R6 look awesome on paper, but overheating and long cool down times will be far too limiting for many people, including me. I regularly shoot at over 85 F, and this looks impossible for the Canons.
> Looks like the Sony A7s III wins for video. (Of course, the peanut gallery will fill up with "pros will only use a dedicated video body" from everyone who has never shot a video, ignoring the ubiquitous use of DSLRs and mirrorless bodies in films and videos around the world. Hint: there's a reason pros DO use these mirrorless bodies and the DSLRs before them on film sets  )




Then all of the folks who have beat the Canon into the ground should quickly rush over and buy the Sony and join the chorus of “Sony is perfect” despite all of the shortcomings the new handy-cam comes with.


----------



## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

Etienne said:


> This is why it is best to wait for real world testing of new equipment. The R5 / R6 look awesome on paper, but overheating and long cool down times will be far too limiting for many people, including me. I regularly shoot at over 85 F, and this looks impossible for the Canons.
> Looks like the Sony A7s III wins for video. (Of course, the peanut gallery will fill up with "pros will only use a dedicated video body" from everyone who has never shot a video, ignoring the ubiquitous use of DSLRs and mirrorless bodies in films and videos around the world. Hint: there's a reason pros DO use these mirrorless bodies and the DSLRs before them on film sets  )


The a7s III overheats FASTER in 4k60 than the EOS R. Let that sink in. Also, if the Sony overheats, you cant use it. If the canon overheats you can switch IMMEDIATLY to a "non overheating mode" like the 4k30 mode, which is still super great btw  

I dont understand why its such a topic on the R5 while there is no camera in that form factor that can beat it :-D


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## Jethro (Aug 3, 2020)

peters said:


> there is NO 4k60 camera on the market in that form factor with a fullframe that can shoot THAT long. AND the R5 wont overheat in 4k60 if you use an external recorder.
> If it overheats, you can allways switch to 4k30.
> 4k30 HQ is basicaly an 8k image which is saved in a 4k image. Its not very surprising that an 8k readout overheats. Again there is NO FF camera in that class that can even do 4k60 longer than the R5 - and there is NOTHING ANYWHERE near of an 8k imge.


This can't be repeated enough - if only to maintain some sense of perspective on this issue. 

When you distill it, the real beef seems to be the recovery times. Maybe that is a physical limitation, or maybe there are firmware or even hardware tweaks that can improve it in the future. But, this is a breakthrough camera in its first iteration, and its hard to see a lot of the criticism being any more than '_the camera isn't as perfect as I thought it should be_'.


----------



## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

Jethro said:


> This can't be repeated enough - if only to maintain some sense of perspective on this issue.
> 
> When you distill it, the real beef seems to be the recovery times. Maybe that is a physical limitation, or maybe there are firmware or even hardware tweaks that can improve it in the future. But, this is a breakthrough camera in its first iteration, and its hard to see a lot of the criticism being any more than '_the camera isn't as perfect as I thought it should be_'.


Jeah, the recovery time sounds to be very long (I didnt test it so far on my R5). But I dont think its that dramatic, given the fact that we can use the 4k30 mode without any problems even right after an overheat shutdown in 8k/4k60.

I think the beef comes mostly from people who dont have the camera and want to hate it, or from people who didnt read the canon informations on the camera, wich EXACTLY stated the overheat times (which turned out to be exactly correct).
I dont get it: its the most capably camera right now with the widest use-cases, but its hated for something thats exactly described by canon in the specs :-D


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## ericjon23 (Aug 3, 2020)

still better than the a7siii


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## Otara (Aug 3, 2020)

peters said:


> The a7s III overheats FASTER than the EOS R. Let that sink in.
> I dont understand why its such a topic on the R5 while there is no camera in that form factor that can beat it :-D



"Though to be fair, what we also learned is that within 3 minutes of putting the a7S III next to an air conditioning vent, it was ready to go again… "

This is probably a pretty importance difference for many. The time limit on recording is much less of an issue if the recovery isnt so long. The review I read said indoors it could last for over 2 hours vs 25 minutes for the R5, vs 23mins against 25 in direct sunlight.

Im very happy with my R5, but I can understand the concern for those who want to do video.


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## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

Otara said:


> "Though to be fair, what we also learned is that within 3 minutes of putting the a7S III next to an air conditioning vent, it was ready to go again… "
> 
> This is probably a pretty importance difference for many. The time limit on recording is much less of an issue if the recovery isnt so long. The review I read said indoors it could last for over 2 hours vs 25 minutes for the R5, vs 23mins against 25 in direct sunlight.
> 
> Im very happy with my R5, but I can understand the concern for those who want to do video.


Jeah thats true. Though I guess on stuff like wedding videos its anyway pretty shocking if your camera turns into shutdown suddenly.
Though I think that canons way of working around that is better: it has a longer cooldown time, but if you are in an important situation, you can ALLWAYS switch to 4k30 that wont overheat.
Also the 4k60 mode wont overheat with an external recorder. (Not sure about the sony though?)

I think for wedding videos the 1DX II or III is still the best choice: 4k60 (which is great for wedding) without any overheat and a great AF.
For video productions a dedicated video camera is certainly best, like a c300.

Anyway, so far I am very happy with my R5. Had 3 shootings now, all went very well


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## sanj (Aug 3, 2020)

I personally do not care about how the camera compares with any other brand.


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## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

ericjon23 said:


> still better than the a7siii


Cant say that enough :-D people hate the canon while its overheat "problem" is not as bad as sonys overheat problems.


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## Jethro (Aug 3, 2020)

peters said:


> Jeah, the recovery time sounds to be very long (I didnt test it so far on my R5). But I dont think its that dramatic, given the fact that we can use the 4k30 mode without any problems even right after an overheat shutdown in 8k/4k60.
> 
> I think the beef comes mostly from people who dont have the camera and want to hate it, or from people who didnt read the canon informations on the camera, wich EXACTLY stated the overheat times (which turned out to be exactly correct).
> I dont get it: its the most capably camera right now with the widest use-cases.


I don't disagree with you - but I think the (stellar) video specs built up expectations in people that this would be the hybrid video / stills camera of their dreams, including for pro and semi-pro applications. I understand the Canon marketers wanting to headline the 8k (and 8k-derived) video modes, because that was the break-through in a camera of this size and $, but expectations were (apparently) raised to the point we see now. 

The tragedy is that no-one can find anything to criticise in the R5 as a stills camera. If they *hadn't* included the new video modes, we'd all just be licking our licks at probably the best ($ for $) stills camera ever released ...


----------



## sanj (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> And this is the real problem, i cant shoot freely, im always worried that the camera could overheat so i have to conserve my use of the camera. Eventually you'll miss an important moment, thats why i wouldnt buy this camera, unless these issues were fixed.


You certainly have a valid point. Except that there are 4k settings that do not overheat.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> When you hear 45 MP, you should instantly know that it probably won't be cutting edge for video; that said, Canon did lead with the video specs and 8k. They bungled the messaging on the release.




I disagree. The YouTube idiots grabbed a piece of a rumored spec sheet and beat it into the ground until expectations were blown completely out of proportion.

The problem isn’t the messaging, it’s people not hearing what they wanted to hear and reacting in a typical way for the times.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

ericjon23 said:


> still better than the a7siii




By a landslide.

I just figured it out. Canon needs a brand whore like Sony Northrop.


usern4cr said:


> For those of you getting the R5 and wanting an Arca-Swiss baseplate, I just wanted to mention that I just ordered a R5 baseplate & removable L bracket from ReallyRightStuff. Yes, it's expensive, but so is the R5 and all the great RF lenses. I've had the same custom base plate on my EM1_II for years and it fits the entire body bottom like a glove - so well that it makes it even better to grip than it already was. I highly recommend it to anyone wanting the best for their R5. They told me that they expect it to be delivered sometime around the end of August. And no - I'm not getting anything for saying this (but I wish I could have!)




RRS is worth every penny.


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## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

Jethro said:


> I don't disagree with you - but I think the (stellar) video specs built up expectations in people that this would be the hybrid video / stills camera of their dreams, including for pro and semi-pro applications. I understand the Canon marketers wanting to headline the 8k (and 8k-derived) video modes, because that was the break-through in a camera of this size and $, but expectations were (apparently) raised to the point we see now.
> 
> The tragedy is that no-one can find anything to criticise in the R5 as a stills camera. If they *hadn't* included the new video modes, we'd all just be licking our licks at probably the best ($ for $) stills camera ever released ...


Jeah, thats certainly true. Not sure if it was the marketing or the expectations. Maybe they should have inclduded the maximum runtimes in each mode at the first announcement of the camera and not on the official announcement. 
I also think its a pretty much perfect stills camera  especialy the AF works like magic  I would have hoped for some more buttons, a bigger viewfinder and a mode-dial thogh =)


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Honestly? I can see this as a potential selling point. "I capture key moments of your wedding such as vows, first dance, cake cutting in stunning 8K. You can be assured these moments will be cherished and look outstanding for a generation to come"




Times have changed I guess. Usually the wedding videos I’m familiar with are buried deep in a closet somewhere and are only trotted out as a way to get stubborn party guests to leave.

Then again, with the fail rate of marriages these days I guess it could be used as a negotiating tool in the divorce - you can keep the house, but you have to keep the wedding video as well.


----------



## Colorado (Aug 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> You certainly have a valid point. Except that there are 4k settings that do not overheat.


And there's a bigger exception. If I am reading through this mess (why I am I am still not sure) you have the following scenarios:

(1) You are the videographer at a wedding using the R5. You've been recording in one of the high quality modes--8K, HQ, or 60. Just as a key moment happens--say the cake is being cut--your R5 reaches the thermal limit. You quickly switch to 4K30 and capture video of the cake cutting, saving you from the wrath of the bride.

(2) You are the videographer at a wedding using the a7siii. You've been recording in 4K60. Just as that cake cutting moment happens your a7 reaches the thermal limit and shuts down. Yes it will recover faster than the Canon under a fan--3 min or so. But by that time the cake is cut and later the bride will be horrified when you tell her you missed taking video of the moment.

Which camera is "ideal" for weddings? That's the problem with back-and-forth forum wars. People can create whatever scenario they want to prove whatever point they want.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That is utter bullshit. Canon never claimed or suggested it could do more than it does, never. First off people were saying the 8k would be fake upsample and on and on, that wasn't Canon that was the influencers and the rumor sites. Canon said it would shoot 8k RAW internal, it does, they never said sell your RED Monstro and shoot Lord of the Rings 12 on this.


Humans assume things. There are so many psychology aspects to advertising. One of them is consumer assumption. Unless a company is going to give us full spec lists with pros and cons of using their product, consumers will assume. If they want it and like the brand , they will usually assume the best, if they hate the brand, they sometimes assume the worst. Silly fanboy stuff you know. Then some level head individuals might not come to any conclusion until the product is released and tested. The unpopular opinion would be the flawed ways that people think lead to false hope BUT I am pretty sure some ANALyst or marketing person for a company knows all this already. Personally i bought 2 of these cameras. I kinda care but also dont care about the shortcomings because as you said, Canon didnt state any lies.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Its because video specs were the most glamorized features of the camera for months.




Glamorized by the paid hacks of YouTube. Not by Canon. They listed specs and the usual gang of idiots played completely unrealistic games of ‘what if’ and people, somehow, took it as gospel.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 3, 2020)

All this time I thought 24p was all that mattered. So confused.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That is utter bullshit. Canon never claimed or suggested it could do more than it does, never. First off people were saying the 8k would be fake upsample and on and on, that wasn't Canon that was the influencers and the rumor sites. Canon said it would shoot 8k RAW internal, it does, they never said sell your RED Monstro and shoot Lord of the Rings 12 on this.



.....adult enters the chat.....


----------



## tbintb (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> All the Canon faithful freaking out when the R5 is rightly criticized . . . Guys, the camera overheats when shooting stills, too. All actions people take with the camera (reviewing pics, video, using the Live View screen) apparently contribute to heat, which eventually leads to shutdowns. Even with stills alone, I wouldn’t shoot a wedding with a single R5 body, because what if it overheats at a critical moment? Ironic that the first Canon mirrorless with dual card slots STILL can’t be trusted solo.
> 
> Does that happen with the 5D mk. IV? No? Well, then the R5 isn’t an ideal replacement. Hence: this post.


I’m genuinely sorry to hear your R5 is overheating by simply taking stills. That’s disturbing. I read on another site of someone talking about that using an older battery, and I thought it was a troll from another brand. Of course, I thought comments like that started this rumor. Maybe I’m a lucky one then? I took mine out all day Saturday in this apocalyptic Florida heat we are having this summer, and with humidity galore, where you just stand there pis*in sweat doing nothing. Anyway, my R5 took the heat better than I did. I’m wondering if a few units might be defective? I’d return yours if that’s the case. Mine has been a revelation on the stills side of things. The AF alone, trumps my old 5D3 and now my former 5D4. What a joy to use! I don’t have a clue about the video side though, as I only shoot 5 minute clips of my daughter once or twice a month.


----------



## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

tbintb said:


> I’m genuinely sorry to hear your R5 is overheating by simply taking stills. That’s disturbing. I read on another site of someone talking about that using an older battery, and I thought it was a troll from another brand. Of course, I thought comments like that started this rumor. Maybe I’m a lucky one then? I took mine out all day Saturday in this apocalyptic Florida heat we are having this summer, and with humidity galore, where you just stand there pis*in sweat doing nothing. Anyway, my R5 took the heat better than I did. I’m wondering if a few units might be defective? I’d return yours if that’s the case. Mine has been a revelation on the stills side of things. The AF alone, trumps my old 5D3 and now my former 5D4. What a joy to use! I don’t have a clue about the video side though, as I only shoot 5 minute clips of my daughter once or twice a month.



No, not my camera - I'm citing what others are saying and what Canon's R5 manual implies. By contrast, I'd be happy to learn that the camera does not or cannot overheat when shooting stills, alone. Sounds like you've had a great experience!


----------



## Terry Danks (Aug 3, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Usually the wedding videos I’m familiar with are buried deep in a closet somewhere and are only trotted out as a way to get stubborn party guests to leave.


----------



## peters (Aug 3, 2020)

Colorado said:


> And there's a bigger exception. If I am reading through this mess (why I am I am still not sure) you have the following scenarios:
> 
> (1) You are the videographer at a wedding using the R5. You've been recording in one of the high quality modes--8K, HQ, or 60. Just as a key moment happens--say the cake is being cut--your R5 reaches the thermal limit. You quickly switch to 4K30 and capture video of the cake cutting, saving you from the wrath of the bride.
> 
> ...



Ha, well said! 
I think option one is certainly better  (Especialy given that I have canon colors with that :-D)
In general I still think the 1DX II or III is the best option for wedding videography. Both offer stellar 4k60 image quality and great Autofocus (Which is realy good to have for weddings) with a decent crop of 1,3. 
I used the 1DX II for a lot of events and it was always a pleasure to use


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Times have changed I guess. Usually the wedding videos I’m familiar with are buried deep in a closet somewhere and are only trotted out as a way to get stubborn party guests to leave.
> 
> Then again, with the fail rate of marriages these days I guess it could be used as a negotiating tool in the divorce - you can keep the house, but you have to keep the wedding video as well.



Oh I didn't say anyone would actually WATCH that 8K footage 

Just that as a differentiator in a competitive space, 8K could be a nice bullet to add to your site.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

Jethro said:


> the (stellar) video specs built up expectations in people that this would be the hybrid video / stills camera of their dreams, including for pro and semi-pro applications.




Maybe those folks with their overactive imaginations now need to own it instead of melting down like the brat in the grocery line that didn’t get what they wanted from the impulse buy candy shelf.


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## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Humans assume things.




Yep - and adults realize it’s THEIR fault when their assumptions don’t pan out.

Definite shortage of adults these days.


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## nikkito (Aug 4, 2020)

Can I use the R5 to take photos? I'm a little confused, I think it's a photo camera, but I may be wrong.

www.nicolaszonvi.com


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## geffy (Aug 4, 2020)

whats the tanning times like, is it better to lie on the beach in Spain?


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## 1D4 (Aug 4, 2020)

navastronia said:


> No, not my camera - I'm citing what others are saying and what Canon's R5 manual implies. By contrast, I'd be happy to learn that the camera does not or cannot overheat when shooting stills, alone. Sounds like you've had a great experience!


There were literally two people I've seen who said the R5 overheated while only shooting stills. One on FM, who said he was shooting for a few hours on a hot day, and the heat indicator warning icon came on, and at some point the camera turned off. He later clarified that it turned off due to the battery dying, and not because the camera shut down because of the heat. He also later stated that after he put in a fresh battery, the camera was able to shoot stills immediately, and there was no heat indicator icon. The other person (I believe here) said that he shot something like 2,000-3,000 photos over a few hours outside and the camera turned off on him. No reviewers I saw, nor have any other customers mentioned the camera shutting off just due to stills...only that video times were reduced after shooting stills -- which is exactly what Canon stated would happen. People keep on referencing the same two users (out of thousands of people who now have R5s), and it suddenly seems like a huge, widespread issue. Heck, multiple Sony fanboys were referencing the FM thread and just happened to disappear, when it was clarified that the poster's R5 shut off because the battery died. Maybe Sony cameras don't turn off when the battery dies?


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## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> I do own the camera.
> I dont see why it shouldnt be a profesisonal video tool. Its not video centric (given alone the fact that it hase a MICRO hdmi port). But its a great tool.
> Please remember: there is NO 4k60 camera on the market in that form factor with a fullframe that can shoot THAT long. AND the R5 wont overheat in 4k60 if you use an external recorder.
> If it overheats, you can allways switch to 4k30.
> ...


No Canon was not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus. Everything reduces the available recording time.
Canon was not clear that cool down times could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. Please, I can’t understand why anyone that coughed up the $4200 (with tax) for this body would be ok with this highly unpredictable behavior?


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## Otara (Aug 4, 2020)

Colorado said:


> And there's a bigger exception. If I am reading through this mess (why I am I am still not sure) you have the following scenarios:
> 
> (1) You are the videographer at a wedding using the R5. You've been recording in one of the high quality modes--8K, HQ, or 60. Just as a key moment happens--say the cake is being cut--your R5 reaches the thermal limit. You quickly switch to 4K30 and capture video of the cake cutting, saving you from the wrath of the bride.
> 
> ...



Im sure theres some truth in this, but in general I think this might be a replay of the betamax vs VHS wars, where overall duration is going to be seen as more important to the market, even if there are use cases where the other product is superior.

Or its all a storm in a teacup and people will be using external recorders.


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## TomR (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> No Canon was not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus. Everything reduces the available recording time.
> Canon was not clear that cool down times could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. Please, I can’t understand why anyone that coughed up the $4200 (with tax) for this body would be ok with this highly unpredictable behavior?



This is the point every canon fanboy is in denial about. Yes canon told us we'd only have 20 minutes of 8k, but they didnt tell us we we're on the clock from the second we flipped the on switch.


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## tbintb (Aug 4, 2020)

navastronia said:


> No, not my camera - I'm citing what others are saying and what Canon's R5 manual implies. By contrast, I'd be happy to learn that the camera does not or cannot overheat when shooting stills, alone. Sounds like you've had a great experience!


Sorry, I had misread your previous comment. I imagined you had the R5. I think what the manual implies perhaps is about shooting video after taking stills, which is disappointing if you are a hybrid shooter. But from my experience Saturday on the stills side alone, the R5 was up to the task! Crossing my fingers it wasn’t a fluke after reading all this overheating crap online. Gonna take it for another spin this weekend.


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## mppix (Aug 4, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Just that as a differentiator in a competitive space, 8K could be a nice bullet to add to your site.



Just put the Canon 8K slur on your webpage. I'd be interested how your clients react.


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## stevelee (Aug 4, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Oh I didn't say anyone would actually WATCH that 8K footage
> 
> Just that as a differentiator in a competitive space, 8K could be a nice bullet to add to your site.


If the couple insisted on 8k final product, an upsample in post from 4k should work fine. They are unlikely to find something to view it on without downsampling.


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## 1D4 (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> No Canon was not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus. Everything reduces the available recording time.
> Canon was not clear that cool down times could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. Please, I can’t understand why anyone that coughed up the $4200 (with tax) for this body would be ok with this highly unpredictable behavior?


Stop spreading around lies. The user who upvoted your post was the same exact user who posted this from Canon, 3 weeks before launch:





Canon R5 overheating issues and recording times


https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-has-serious-overheating-issues-in-both-4k-and-8k/ Where were these images taken from? it looks like they could be from the manual?




www.canonrumors.com





So how was Canon "not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus" when it literally says in there that* "IF THE CAMERA'S INTERNAL TEMPERATURE RISES DUE TO SHOOTING OR ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS, RECORDING TIME WILL BE REDUCED."* and *"EVEN AFTER A COLD START, TOTAL RECORDING TIME MAY BE SHORTER, BECAUSE THE CAMERA'S INTERNAL TEMPERATURE MAY RISE DUE TO FACTORS SUCH AS CAMERA SETTING OPERATIONS BEFORE RECORDING, OR MAINTAINING THE LIVE VIEW DISPLAY"*. Again, this was known weeks before launch. Canon didn't try to hide anything....they literally said that changing settings and having the display on could affect things.


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 4, 2020)

Let's be clear about what the issues with the R5 are.

The camera overheats. Or, it has thermal protection that will disable certain modes in the camera that will prevent it from overheating and damaging the camera. Canon has published estimated recording times before it becomes throttled. This is not an unreasonable limitation as most Cameras will overheat after a period of time.
The camera will not overheat taking stills. There are a couple of extreme case reports that the camera actually shut down after just shooting stills. However there is overwhelming evidence and reports that the camera will not overheat just shooting stills. We can take those extreme cases as outliers.
The camera will build up heat that may limit anything above 4K30P. If you shoot stills, review images or footage, or shoot in 4K30P Normal mode and below, then switch to a higher quality mode, the allowable time for recording may be reduced. The reports for this issue are varied. We can conclude that the wide variety of usages and environments will all contribute to very different results for each user. The fact that we cannot expect any form of consistency at the higher quality video recording modes is an issue. Users will need to determine for themselves if their specific use case will make the R5 a feasible tool for them or not. If the performance does not meet their workflow requirements, they should provide this feedback to Canon.
The diminishing recording times after successive cool down recovery periods is an issue. Canon has been up front about this, but it's not a practical workflow for any user to have less and less recording times after waiting for the Camera to cool down. If it had a published cool down period that allowed the user to have the max available time again, that might be acceptable. But to expect someone to record for 30 minutes until the camera shuts down, wait 10 minutes to cool down, then only get 3 minutes of shooting time is not reasonable. Consumers should take Canon to task for these weird recovery periods. Also, there have been varying reports for the amount of time that has had to pass for the Camera to complete cooldown, where allowable recording periods have returned to maximum. This is also an issue.
If you can accept 4K30/24P in non-oversampled mode and below, or using an external Recorder on everything up to 4K60p, the camera will not have any overheating issues in most normal uses.
The Lack of 120FPS in 1080p is an issue. There is no reason why this should have been withheld. This is like removing 24 FPS all over again.
UWA IBIS Wobbles is an issue. I am not entirely clear on the specifics of the issue. But it needs to be clear if the lens firmware update addresses this. If not, it sounds like it was not an issue on EOS R/RP, so the culprit is the IBIS. It seems like you either get the combination of Lens IS & IBIS or nothing at all. If Lens IS did not have this wobble issue, then they need to allow the option to disable IBIS only and still allow Lens IS and/or EIS.
I don't really care about the outrage being spewed as if some have been personally offended. Some have had some incredibly unrealistic expectations about this camera. But Canon should definitely be taken to task on issues that are just simply impractical or not usable. I'm still patiently waiting for my R5 and know that I will make it work. I will simply find workarounds, or not use features if they are unusable. On the other hand, while I don't think whining and crying is productive, I do think constructive feedback should be given to Canon so they can address these issues. If they can take care of them with firmware updates, then great. If not, then at the very least it will be on the radar for future cameras.


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## jam05 (Aug 4, 2020)

bitcars said:


> Main issue is Canon insulates the R5 and R6 too well, limiting heat exchange between internal components and the body.
> 
> It almost seems it makes better sense if Canon has a way to actively cool an already overheated camera. An enclosed RF mount cooling fan?


I have no problem with mine. Houston, Texas. It's hot. I'm not a YouTuber. I just use it and if needed put a CPU fan on it and it run as long as I want.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 4, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> For those of you getting the R5 and wanting an Arca-Swiss baseplate, I just wanted to mention that I just ordered a R5 baseplate & removable L bracket from ReallyRightStuff. Yes, it's expensive, but so is the R5 and all the great RF lenses. I've had the same custom base plate on my EM1_II for years and it fits the entire body bottom like a glove - so well that it makes it even better to grip than it already was. I highly recommend it to anyone wanting the best for their R5. They told me that they expect it to be delivered sometime around the end of August. And no - I'm not getting anything for saying this (but I wish I could have!)


Personally I have fallen out of love with RRS L-Plates, they are excessivly bulky and I think any photo staff they had on the design team left. The 1DX II was the last RRS plate I will buy, the 1DX III RRS L-Plate is a dogs breakfast of cockups, the Kirk design is MUCH better. Don’t know about the R5 but I wouldn’t buy any custom plates until I had seen the design in detail.


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## jam05 (Aug 4, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Let's be clear about what the issues with the R5 are.
> 
> The camera overheats. Or, it has thermal protection that will disable certain modes in the camera that will prevent it from overheating and damaging the camera. Canon has published estimated recording times before it becomes throttled. This is not an unreasonable limitation as most Cameras will overheat after a period of time.
> The camera will not overheat taking stills. There are a couple of extreme case reports that the camera actually shut down after just shooting stills. However there is overwhelming evidence and reports that the camera will not overheat just shooting stills. We can take those extreme cases as outliers.
> ...


There are no issues. I have the camera and use it quite well. I knew how to purchase a 3" CPU fan and voila. No problems. Top end video cameras have FANS.


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## JPCanonUser (Aug 4, 2020)

anth455 said:


> So it records for the times canon states. I don't have an 8k tv who does? The size of the files is also a bit big for me. The price of a huge cfexpress card...
> 
> I think I would like to see a serious unbiased review for stills now.



Gordon Liang has one on youtube now.


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## flip314 (Aug 4, 2020)

I just wanted to buy the R5 and brag about owning it... It would have been nice to set it out on my mantle and point out to my visitors, while explaining that it has larger numbers than Sony's cameras do.

But now that people have said _mean things_ about it on the internet, my dream is ruined!


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## davidhfe (Aug 4, 2020)

jam05 said:


> There are no issues. I have the camera and use it quite well. I knew how to purchase a 3" CPU fan and voila. No problems. Top end video cameras have FANS.



I'd be very interested to see some controlled tests with that setup. Would you be up for doing a video? You'd get a boatload of views on YouTube overnight if the setup works. How quickly does that CPU fan return to "full spec" recording?


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## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> No Canon was not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus. Everything reduces the available recording time.
> Canon was not clear that cool down times could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. Please, I can’t understand why anyone that coughed up the $4200 (with tax) for this body would be ok with this highly unpredictable behavior?



I paid $3700 with no tax.

A 5D4 cost $3500 at launch. Factoring inflation, I paid less for my R5 that I did for my 5D4.

Of ‘modern’ cameras that shoot video I own a 70D, a 5D4, a EOS-R, and I have the R5 coming. Total, I’ve shot maybe a half an hour of video.

HIGHLY UNPREDICTABLE is hyperbole at best, drama at worst. I became familiar with the limitations of the EOS-R as a wildlife shooter and had my technique to work around them down in a couple of days. It’s not as fast as my 7D2 or 5D4 but it works fine and produces really nice images.

If you’re going to try to make the R5 do things it wasn’t designed to do or that would require it to defy the laws of nature then you’ll fail and not be a happy camper. If you pay attention to the limitations up front and learn to work around or through them, you’ll be fine.

It might take a little imagination or even a little learning or work, but it’s possible.

Or you can just decide based on your requirements that it just can’t do what you want. In that case I’d say to adjust your expectations, or use the parts that will meet your needs and use something else for the rest, or move on and find something that makes all your dreams come true.


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## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

TomR said:


> This is the point every canon fanboy is in denial about. Yes canon told us we'd only have 20 minutes of 8k, but they didnt tell us we we're on the clock from the second we flipped the on switch.



I‘m not in denial. I’m going to see how things work for me and go from there.

I‘m certainly not going to whine and cry and bitch and moan and regurgitate unsubstantiated BS from other forums as fact and expect to be taken seriously, or weep and gnash teeth for days on end about something I have no personal ‘lemme see how this works’ experience with.


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## cornieleous (Aug 4, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Stop spreading around lies. The user who upvoted your post was the same exact user who posted this from Canon, 3 weeks before launch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"You are a canon fanboy and your logic will not be tolerated, bllargh!!!! "(I'm completely kidding). At this point I am learning I need to bow out of debating with people here- there is some kind of weird anger at a product they don't own, but feel should have met all their desires, that I cannot understand. I'm genuienly trying hard to see their point and just cannot. I saw the same published info from Canon made available to us all before I received the camera, and decided the camera was still going to be ok for my needs, so I left my pre-order active and received the camera late last week. I could still return it today if I was worried, but am not.

I can understand being disappointed a product wasn't what I hoped and have to find another solution for my needs, it has happened to me before with other products. I can definitely understand if someone actually bought something and it didn't work as promised that they may be pretty ticked. Yet acting angry and beating on the camera or brand or anyone who says they like either? What is that about? I don't have the frame of reference to get the outrage and harsh judgement at something that was disclosed and just is a fact of that product, a product no one here has to buy. Makes me really wonder where people are coming from, and if they are trying to be positive or constructive or something else.

Here I sit on my third day of testing this camera, and for all uses within the defined limits, it is pretty amazing- I keep putting it through trials and paces, including overheating it, worrying what I am missing with all these threads and negative press, since it still meets my needs handily and matches what I know is possible with physics of this much capability in a tiny package. The tiny size and EVF will take getting used to, but it is ridiculously good as a stills camera and even when overheated becomes a competent FF 4K30 and stills camera the second after it overheats. Last year, there were only a couple cameras that could do FF 4K60 at all, and they were all dedicated video cameras in larger bodies and prices. We are just barely getting the first generation of capable hybrids. Give it some time folks, you will have your dream camera from one of these brands.

Also, I use several brands of cameras for different uses (including Sony) and think even with the issues, the R5 is a major step up from my 5D4 and a great competitor in the market. Does that make me a Canon fanboy just for liking it, or just means that I have a different viewpoint about the camera?


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## TomR (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I‘m not in denial. I’m going to see how things work for me and go from there.
> 
> I‘m certainly not going to whine and cry and bitch and moan and regurgitate unsubstantiated BS from other forums as fact and expect to be taken seriously, or weep and gnash teeth for days on end about something I have no personal ‘lemme see how this works’ experience with.



thats fair play, i'll probably rent the camera at some point and do the same


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## cornieleous (Aug 4, 2020)

I love the Kirk stuff. Got their lightweight ball-head first, and then the L bracket for 5D4. Still not cheap, but as good or better as RRS for lots less. So far I can't find anyone with a L bracket available yet for R5/6.


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## Th0msky (Aug 4, 2020)

Is there a dedicated mirrorless video camera like the R6 that doesn’t overheat regardless of which brand and within the same sort of price range? As a videographer I really would love to have the sony a7s III but just a lil on the expensive side for me.


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 4, 2020)

jam05 said:


> There are no issues. I have the camera and use it quite well. I knew how to purchase a 3" CPU fan and voila. No problems. Top end video cameras have FANS.


That's awesome if it works for you. I also want to try similar tests when I get my R5.

I'm wondering if the overheated condition is the kiss of death on the camera, where once you hit critical mass then the camera has to deal with extended cool down and recovery periods. Will using a fan or proactively cooling the camera before overheating conditions start help avoid the unpredictability of the overheated condition? I'm curious to find out for myself.

You didn't address the other issues like UWA IBIS wobbles, or missing FHD120, so I assume these just aren't issues for your case.


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## 1D4 (Aug 4, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> "You are a canon fanboy and your logic will not be tolerated, bllargh!!!! "(I'm completely kidding). At this point I am learning I need to bow out of debating with people here- there is some kind of weird anger at a product they don't own, but feel should have met all their desires, that I cannot understand. I'm genuienly trying hard to see their point and just cannot. I saw the same published info from Canon made available to us all before I received the camera, and decided the camera was still going to be ok for my needs, so I left my pre-order active and received the camera late last week. I could still return it today if I was worried, but am not.
> 
> I can understand being disappointed a product wasn't what I hoped and have to find another solution for my needs, it has happened to me before with other products. I can definitely understand if someone actually bought something and it didn't work as promised that they may be pretty ticked. Yet acting angry and beating on the camera or brand or anyone who says they like either? What is that about? I don't have the frame of reference to get the outrage and harsh judgement at something that was disclosed and just is a fact of that product, a product no one here has to buy. Makes me really wonder where people are coming from, and if they are trying to be positive or constructive or something else.
> 
> ...



I agree...most of these people don't even have the R5 in hand or don't have it on pre-order, either. That doesn't discount their opinions, but if they bought it and they are that mad about it then, then return the camera if you find it to be completely unusable. If they didn't buy it, then shouldn't they feel relieved hearing about all these minute details or reading Canon's explanations of the limitations well before launch? It's not like Canon sent all the review copies into the Siberian winter, didn't document the limitations, then was like "sorry suckers!". And while on that topic, I should mention that a videographer on YouTube mentioned he shot HQ 4K with no overheating, in Australia (where it's obviously Winter).

I would love to stop replying, too, but I find it hard letting go when people are going to make completely false statements that can easily be proven untrue.


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 4, 2020)

Th0msky said:


> Is there a dedicated mirrorless video camera like the R6 that doesn’t overheat regardless of which brand and within the same sort of price range? As a videographer I really would love to have the sony a7s III but just a lil on the expensive side for me.



Hmmm. Guess we'd need a little more information on what specs are important to you. You're going to run into tradeoffs for all of them.

Sony A7SIII - Near perfect for video but bad IBIS, Animal AF doesn't work with Video, Expensive
Canon R6 - Excellent IBIS & AF, Thermal Limitations, UWA IBIS Wobbles
Panasonic S1 - 4K60 but with S35 crop. Will need paid upgrades to use better codecs. Poor AF. Not the best Colors SOC, IBIS not as good as M4/3 bodies, Excellent current street pricing.
Panasonic GH5 - Like the S1 but 4K60 on M4/3 sensor. More Affordable. Excellent IBIS
Panasonic S1H - A bigger polished more expensive S1
Fujifilm XT4 - Nice Colors, Good Dynamic Range, APS-C Crop, Thermal Limitations, Poor AF, UWA IBIS Wobbles


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## Respinder (Aug 4, 2020)

I am very conflicted with all of this.
As I noted in another thread, there is a major negative perception associated with this camera. Whether or not you can work around the limitations of the camera remains a question, but the growing perception is that this camera has serious flaws.

For me, it is more of a practical question - what did Canon want to achieve with the R5?
I would assume that they wanted to aim strategically at Sony and produce a compelling product that would retain their existing customer base, while growing that customer base at the expense of Sony and other competitors.

But does the R5 under its current perception do this? In my view, no it does not. Enough people have described the video functionalities as being "unusable" to the point that the camera will be mostly perceived in this manner - I simply do not understand how Canon hopes to expand their customer base with this product.

Another question I keep thinking about is whether Canon is simply technically unable to achieve better specifications and usability given their engineering teams and possible internal constraints. While it has been assumed that Canon has intentionally crippled their video in the past by offering only cropped modes, what if the real problem was always overheating, and Canon simply couldn't combat this? From an engineering perspective, I wouldn't expect Canon to be able to compete with Sony on things like heat dissipation systems - Sony simply has far more experience in this regard, and I'm sure there is a lot of cross-sharing of knowledge between their various R&D groups (e.g. they are building one of the most advanced cooling systems now for the PS5)

Where Canon does offer more compelling capabilities versus Sony is in their optics - their lenses. Furthermore, I believe that the larger diameter of the RF mount will allow Canon to build faster (hopefully a 50mm f1.0 in the near future??) and more advanced lenses like the 28-70 f2 whereas the smaller diameter of the E mount will further limit what Sony is able to accomplish. BUT - the gap between Sony and Canon continues to shrink, and I really do wonder how Canon will remain competitive in the future if they cannot improve the perception of their products.

Given the issues at hand, and what Canon wanted to achieve, I would say that a firmware update of some sort is absolutely necessary in order to get this product to a more usable state. Even for a non-professional like myself, taking photos on a given day and then not being able to use the video functionality due to overheating restrictions would be frustrating. Using the 4K line-skipping mode is simply not an option - for those who purchased an R5, only the best PQ will do, and that will mean either 4K HQ or 8K footage. If Canon had utilized pixel binning instead of line-skipping, perhaps the lower end 4K mode could have been a better option.

For me personally, I've decided to hold off on any purchase right now. Going all into the R5 would be very costly for me - with the body, adapter, batteries, CF express cards and a new RF lens, I'd be looking at $8-10K CAD easily. At that cost, I want something that is truly the best out there, with no compromises in performance. Perhaps that could be the Canon R1? But if Canon is smart, and they want to drastically improve their perception, they need to come up with a solution here. A big driver of the R5 was to improve that perception - that the cripple hammer was finally going away and Canon was finally listening to their customer base - well if that's the case, then they really need to listen up here! Remember that the Sony a7 is right around the corner - Canon needs to respond big time, and it shouldn't be with another body.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 4, 2020)

I still don't understand why anyone would be comparing an R5 with an A7Siii.. two very different cameras. If Video was my main gig I would be looking at a C200b for around the same money.

I bought an R5 for 95% stills with the intention of taking very short, but very high quality video. For that, it's perfect.


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## Etienne (Aug 4, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> For video, the A7S3 looks amazing and by far the better purchase for that need, but its stills are then compromised (to me) as much or more as the R5 video. I like the nuances of the A7S3 for video not just because it performs, but for the nice details like full size HDMI, hot shoe audio wire path, vertically hinged port covers, and ridiculous low light ability. If I was needing 4K60, I think I'd be looking hard at it as all around it would be more pleasurable for video. I just don't do enough video to need the FF 4K60fps and have a dedicated Sony NXCAM that does wonderful 4K30 and has built in ND and lots of nice video centric stuff. For footage quality alone, the R5 might make my NXCAM redundant. Before the R5 and A7S3, there really was no hybrid FF MILC that could even try to do 4K60 and up was there?
> 
> To me the R5 was always going to be a 5D5 from all the press around it. A great stills camera with ho-hum video that will be amazing for casual users and not good enough for many forms of pro work on the video side. You aren't wrong that pros use these size cameras for a reason, but until recently we only had 4K30 on FF, and Canon went the stills bias on their hybrid balancing while Sony went the video way.
> 
> I have read some interesting stuff that I cannot verify, that the 5D2 was used for Iron Man 2 in some scenes, and a full episode of House, and some other full feature film (cannot remember which, some war movie) and had overheating issues during some shoots, so they had multiple bodies. Not saying that is a reasonable solution for event photographers, just that we have seen this before in Sony and other bodies: putting the latest horsepower into tiny bodies will just always be a thermal problem and I would almost rather they hold this stuff back to avoid this controversy.


The final episode of one season of House was entirely shot on the 5D2 , and many of these "photography" cameras have been used on big budget films


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## koch1948 (Aug 4, 2020)

Respinder said:


> I am very conflicted with all of this.
> As I noted in another thread, there is a major negative perception associated with this camera. Whether or not you can work around the limitations of the camera remains a question, but the growing perception is that this camera has serious flaws.
> 
> For me, it is more of a practical question - what did Canon want to achieve with the R5?
> ...


You are 100% correct about the flagship EOS R1. That future camera body might be your solution.


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## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

TomR said:


> thats fair play, i'll probably rent the camera at some point and do the same




I bought it. It’s cheaper..


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## Etienne (Aug 4, 2020)

Colorado said:


> Um yeah. The 12 MP "hybrid" camera that is 95% video focused and 5% stills focused wins for long-duration video. Is anyone surprised by this?
> 
> All this bantering back and forth comes down to one thing. When someone says a small, mirrorless camera is a hybrid camera do you expect it to be stills focused? Or video focused? What split? 50/50? 80/20? 20/80? You can't design a camera that does it all and that will likely always be true. When technology improves and the canon R5 Mark III can do 75MP stills and unlimited 8K video there will be some other feature that it can't do as well as a dedicated video camera (or dedicated stills camera).
> 
> When designing the R5 canon went with the 80/20 split. If that upsets you or doesn't meet your needs and you wanted a 5/95 split then obviously the camera is not for you. But they didn't dupe the camera world, they didn't forget (LOL) to add a heat sink, and they aren't going to recall and completely redesign the camera to match YOUR needs. The camera clearly meets a large segment of the market's needs as it is sold out everywhere.


Even the humble Sony A7 III looks like a better hybrid option than either the R5 or R6 at this point.
And if you want a two body system, the A7sIII and A7r IV blow the Canon duo out of the water I'm afraid.
Full disclosure: I am a long time Canon fan and was super excited to see the new R5 R6, but short of a miracle, they are no use to me.
The only Canon cameras that I hope might be appealing are a high end M series, and only because I want to use my lovely lenses: 11-22 IS, the 22 f/2, and the 32 f/1.4 ... or a possible RF mount C100 mk III (or whatever they decide to call it)


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## Etienne (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Then all of the folks who have beat the Canon into the ground should quickly rush over and buy the Sony and join the chorus of “Sony is perfect” despite all of the shortcomings the new handy-cam comes with.


Nothing is perfect, except in the minds of fanbois of all flavors. Thanks for clarifying where you stand, fanboi


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I still don't understand why anyone would be comparing an R5 with an A7Siii.. two very different cameras. If Video was my main gig I would be looking at a C200b for around the same money.
> 
> I bought an R5 for 95% stills with the intention of taking very short, but very high quality video. For that, it's perfect.




Yes.

I just read a very interesting article about the success of capturing 35MP images from the 8K video.

The examples were very impressive.


----------



## Etienne (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> The a7s III overheats FASTER in 4k60 than the EOS R. Let that sink in. Also, if the Sony overheats, you cant use it. If the canon overheats you can switch IMMEDIATLY to a "non overheating mode" like the 4k30 mode, which is still super great btw
> 
> I dont understand why its such a topic on the R5 while there is no camera in that form factor that can beat it :-D



Philip Bloom has already done a torture test for overheating on the A7s III, and it is the best performer by a mile available today.
You've mistaken the two cameras.
The Sony when it does overheat can be reused in minutes, the Canon takes hours.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> Nothing is perfect, except in the minds of fanbois of all flavors. Thanks for clarifying where you stand, fanboi




I was quoting Gerald Man-bun with his proclamation of the A7SIII‘s “perfection” (his words, not mine) and my position regarding this camera is clear and doesn’t even approach fanboy. I’m in the try and see category. But thanks for jumping to conclusions without knowing your target. Your name calling is very telling...


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 4, 2020)

degos said:


> "The EOS R5 uncompromising performance will revolutionise your photography and filmmaking."
> 
> Uncompromising*!
> 
> * Includes compromises


If the R5 couldn’t revolutionize your creativity with features not available in any other hybrid it isn’t Canon that is the problem.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> A7sIII and A7r IV




For what? Stills? Emmm. Okay.


----------



## TomR (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I bought it. It’s cheaper..



Not for me.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> can be reused in minutes




Reused in minutes means nothing when your intended target just flew into the trees... If the Groom just kissed the Bride. If the bouquet was just tossed in the air.


It overheats. The severity depends on which YouTube tool you worship. If you like taking game boy sized photos, have at it.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

TomR said:


> Not for me.




Dang it - forgot you were in Canada. Sorry bro. I’d I mention I live an hour south of the border?


----------



## Etienne (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> For what? Stills? Emmm. Okay.


Both obviously.
Because it's complicated for you: A7sIII for video, A7r IV for stills


----------



## Etienne (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Reused in minutes means nothing when your intended target just flew into the trees... If the Groom just kissed the Bride. If the bouquet was just tossed in the air.
> 
> 
> It overheats. The severity depends on which YouTube tool you worship. If you like taking game boy sized photos, have at it.


LOL, go ahead and try to use the Canon's for video and kiss your client goodbye.


----------



## tron (Aug 4, 2020)

I understand the frustration and although a stills only shooter I do not like overheating in principle.

As there are many angry people regarding video I wonder if I could find any angry people to try to find issues In stills shooting.

Like shooting a few thousands of shots a day or …. wait … try to do a very old DR test: Shooting a dark object at -5EV and recovering shadows afterwards. Now my EOS 5DIV had its lmits and I just tried my EOS R which seemed fine at -3 but revealing some color patches at -4 (when the target is a black cloth). I haven't done the same test with 5DIV but it had its issues at these extreme settings.

I guess SONY fanboys would like to test R5 and R6 for that!

Before you think I try to troll Canon it's quite the opposite.

I use Canon 5DIV with 500mm to shoot the moonrise behind an ancient temple from a big distance.

Depending on the moonrise time and the sun setting time the sky sometimes retains some nice blue color and sometimes it does not. I try to lift the sky to make it deep blue instead of dark (something I wouldn't dare with my 5DIII) but still not quite there with my 5DIV (some patches appear sometimes as black lines, sometime random). The effects are not very strong and I try to compensate by darkening the sky but I would like a notch better performance.

I do not like multiple exposures I think of them as cheating.

Apart from this specific case my 5DIV (and R) are super nice cameras that I can use in low light situations and be happy about them.

SInce R5 has one stop more DR than R (see photonsandphotos) I think there is a chance to get the little something more I desire for this kind of shooting.

P.S Unfortunately (or fortunately for cost reasons) the next "window" for the specific kind of shooting is now next year ( June, July and August). I hope someone will have test R5 to exhaustion by then!


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> Both obviously.
> Because it's complicated for you: A7sIII for video, A7r IV for stills



You’re just a rude one all the way around aren’t you? It isn’t complicated “for me” at all.

The A7SIII is useless to me because of it’s sensor size. TO ME. YMMV.

A7R IV lags the R5 in every aspect except sensor resolution. But okay. You go right ahead. We won’t even go into available lens selection.

Your definition of something ‘blowing something out of the water’ is much different than mine.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 4, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I love how you like to keep pushing your agenda. Other than to stir  why are you still here?



I've got a decade of history on this forum. I don't deserve to be accused of an "agenda" just because you disagree.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 4, 2020)

lucuias said:


> I tested R5 and R6 just now and I find the camera body barely warm while the overheat sign shows .It is almost like a software limitation intended by Canon .I bet a firmware update will fix all the significant overheat issue hype over the internet .



If it's just aggressive firmware limits that would be awesome. Easy fix.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 4, 2020)

mppix said:


> To me, Canon did not promise a supercar (lik Bugatti or Ferrari), they promised an Audi RS4 or BMW M5 (still 450HP) but delivered (mostly) a 150HP Audi A4 or BMW 5xx!
> 
> In camera language, the R5 [even without overheating] won't replace the "supercar" cinema cameras (like Arris, RED's, or C500/700's) anytime soon. However as is, it is not much better than what is available in class for most use cases.
> 
> This is all fine, just announce the venerable A4 that you build.


My point was whatever the headline performance figure might be there are always limitations. Personally I don’t think the performance limits in the R5 are unreasonable for the price form factor and specs.


----------



## sanj (Aug 4, 2020)

mppix said:


> Some cooldown, sure, but it is 30min-2h to fully cool down (depending who you ask).
> Good thing is it never locks you out from shooting stills or basic video modes.
> 
> 
> ...


I feel it would be 30-2hr cooldown only for a fully heated camera.


----------



## TomR (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Dang it - forgot you were in Canada. Sorry bro. I’d I mention I live an hour south of the border?



Great I'll just send it to yours!


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

TomR said:


> Great I'll just send it to yours!




Are you on the BC side?


----------



## Colorado (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> ...they are no use to me.


Well it took 200+ replies but someone finally understands. Note that no use to you does not mean useless to everyone. Or crippled. Or poorly designed. Or poorly engineered. It doesn't mean ZOMG CANON LIED! It doesn't mean there should be a recall. 



Etienne said:


> And if you want a two body system, the A7sIII and A7r IV blow the Canon duo out of the water I'm afraid.


No need to fear. For stills, the R5 is superior to the A7r IV in every way except MP count. So for a primary stills shooter the Sony combo is not better. And also for the stills shooter that wants to be able to dabble with 8K, 4KHQ the R5 is the only answer. I don't shoot weddings, I am not a videoographer. An R5 + thousands spend on RF lenses is much more useful to me than two Sony cameras, both of which are inferior taking stills and one of which is superior taking lower quality video of which I have little use.



Etienne said:


> The Sony when it does overheat can be reused in minutes, the Canon takes hours.


As I said in a different post when the Canon overheats you can switch to 4K30. When the Sony overheats you have to wait those minutes (assuming you have a fan handy) or longer. What if the overheating occurs at a critical moment? The R5 can record at lower quality, the Sony records nothing. Again use cases and requirements differ.

I get you like Sony's offerings more. I think you should buy them. But hopefully you can understand that for many (including myself) the R5 is a dream camera.


----------



## TomR (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Are you on the BC side?



Nah I'm in the east


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 4, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> LOL. No it doesn't. This is why posts like yours need to be called out for the complete and total BS they are.
> 
> The body DOES NOT OVERHEAT WHEN SHOOTING STILLS. YOU WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO SHOOT STILLS in even hot weather, and extreme conditions.



Just ignore any user reports to the contrary, right? All caps means it could never happen, right?



> NOBODY besides two random people on the internet posting on message forums has provided ANY evidence, or even a suggestion that it overheats with stills. To the contrary there are plenty of videos that state that IT NEVER GETS LOCKED OUT OF STILLS.



Which videos tested for this? Show me a video of a guy shooting hard...realistic but hard...on the Vegas strip right now when it's north of 100F. No failures and I'll be convinced the report we have here was a bad battery or out of spec unit.

Until then I'm not going to stomp my feet and TYPE IN ALL CAPS if someone wonders aloud about possible thermal issues with stills.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

TomR said:


> Nah I'm in the east




Dang it.

We have a lot of friends just over the border over here on the far-left coast.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> someone wonders aloud about possible thermal issues with stills.



Seems fair.

If it was over 100% I wouldn’t leave the house. Where I live houses don’t even have AC. Don’t need it.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 4, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> Desperately searching for anything ... we know. How about posting that evidence that someone successfully locked out the camera from stills? We are all waiting.



An incident has been posted. Maybe it was simply an out of spec unit. But I bet if we had a half dozen reports you would ignore it as "just forum members." And if a YT reviewer posted the same, "just a talking head shill looking for clicks."

You want to believe what you want to believe. Period.

Other people are simply wondering, and perfectly open to the possibility that the R5 is as robust as any DSLR on stills. But you can't blame them from wondering. *The only reason video modes become limited with stills shooting is because the camera can't shed heat fast enough while shooting stills.* If it could then stills would not eat into video time. Now maybe it reaches an equilibrium point and maybe stills will never push it into the red. *But a basic understanding of thermodynamics is enough to make one question that.*


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 4, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> When you hear 45 MP, you should instantly know that it probably won't be cutting edge for video; that said, Canon did lead with the video specs and 8k. They bungled the messaging on the release.



The R6 has the same problems. You could almost forgive the R5 and say "but 45mp bro" if the R6 didn't have the same problems.


----------



## mppix (Aug 4, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> My point was whatever the headline performance figure might be there are always limitations. Personally I don’t think the performance limits in the R5 are unreasonable for the price form factor and specs.



I agree but I remain really confused by Canon's strategy with mirrorless generally and the R5/6 introduction specifically.
Just for reference a certainly very pointed article that I hope explains.





Canon UK on EOS R5: “shoots comfortably on high-end production sets – ideal partner to C300 Mark III” – Why overheating is unintentional – EOSHD.com – Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews







www.eoshd.com




I'm really not trying to say that the R5/6 should be a cinema camera - thankfully it is not - but I really don't get who the video is desined for.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

Respinder said:


> As I noted in another thread, there is a major negative perception associated with this camera.


There's major ramble on youtube and social media. I wish there was a major negative perception so that people withdraw their preorders and I get first in the line. It hasn't happened yet, there's still too many preorders


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> The final episode of one season of House was entirely shot on the 5D2 , and many of these "photography" cameras have been used on big budget films


This is true, albeit, not as a dedicated A cam in most scenarios. My favorite use was the NASCAR scene in Iron Man 2  Some productions use a mix of cameras. I could see R5 as a crash cam. It would be great in an explosion scene, for sure.


----------



## mppix (Aug 4, 2020)

sanj said:


> I feel it would be 30-2hr cooldown only for a fully heated camera.


Unfortunately, heat transfer has a RC circuit discharge behavior with constant time constant [in first order approximation].
That means that the hot-spot temperature decreases by 33% within the first Tau (time constant, likely somewhere around 10-20min) and to fully cools down at about 5 times Tau, i.e. 5x the time). Hence:
- the camera takes [approximately] the same time to fully cool down [=get full shooting capabilities back] irrespective form initial temperature.
- one should get a fraction of the recording time, e.g. 5min 8K, back relatively quickly, but getting full recording time, e.g. 20min 8K, will take ~5 times as much
- modest use, e.g. still shooting, will likely heat the camera somewhat hence one can expect some intermediate recording time after such use; getting full recording time will again take ~ the full rest period.

Disclaimer: these are extrapolations form an oversimplified model [that is known to model the heat transfer physics well and is widely used in engineering]


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

Respinder said:


> there is a major negative perception associated with this camera




With who? All of the millions of people who don’t actually own one or have never touched one or seen one in real life?

Their perception is being media driven, largely by paid hacks on YouTube, and in my reality means exactly zero.

When a larger number of these cameras become available people will begin to understand, FOR THEMSLEVES, what the limitations mean and if they are even limitations at all. Stills shooters - which I believe are the people most attracted to this camera - really don’t care about video. Their “perceptions” of this camera are drowned out in white noise.

Sony Northrop is posting in the Reddit r/canon sub about how much he ‘wants to love’ the R5/R6 camera but he ‘has to make people aware‘ of their limitations.

Not one word about stills shooting....


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> This is true, albeit, not as a dedicated A cam in most scenarios. My favorite use was the NASCAR scene in Iron Man 2  Some productions use a mix of cameras. I could see R5 as a crash cam. It would be great in an explosion scene, for sure.



Overall, you'd like to see it totally destroyed.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> With who? All of the millions of people who don’t actually own one or have never touched one or seen one in real life?
> 
> Their perception is being media driven, largely by paid hacks on YouTube, and in my reality mean exactly zero.
> 
> ...


Hey Bert! Gordon Laing dropped a video on stills... I wonder if hes one of the paid hacks? You have examples of some?


----------



## sanj (Aug 4, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> An incident has been posted. Maybe it was simply an out of spec unit. But I bet if we had a half dozen reports you would ignore it as "just forum members." And if a YT reviewer posted the same, "just a talking head shill looking for clicks."
> 
> You want to believe what you want to believe. Period.
> 
> Other people are simply wondering, and perfectly open to the possibility that the R5 is as robust as any DSLR on stills. But you can't blame them from wondering. *The only reason video modes become limited with stills shooting is because the camera can't shed heat fast enough while shooting stills.* If it could then stills would not eat into video time. Now maybe it reaches an equilibrium point and maybe stills will never push it into the red. *But a basic understanding of thermodynamics is enough to make one question that.*


I think you are spreading rumours on a rumour site. Bad.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Hey Bert! Gordon Laing dropped a video on stills... I wonder if hes one of the paid hacks? You have examples of some?



Not familiar with him but I’ll give him a look. Thanks for the tip. Honestly - unless it’s a how-to or music or a tutorial I don’t spend a lot of time on YouTube. For me it’s cringe-worthy. I don’t do Instagram or Facebook either.

I’m not going to waste a lot of time with examples because everyone has their own opinion. A good solid example *for me* is Sony Northrup. He’d eat a tennis ball for clicks.


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Not familiar with him but I’ll give him a look. Thanks for the tip. Honestly - unless it’s a how-to or music or a tutorial I don’t spend a lot of time on YouTube. For me it’s cringe-worthy. I don’t do Instagram or Facebook either.
> 
> I’m not going to waste a lot of time with examples because everyone has their own opinion. A good solid example *for me* is Sony Northrup. He’d eat a tennis ball for clicks.



Gordon's a good guy and the review in question is as far from click bait as possible. I think he was the only non-explorer anglophone to get a camera ahead of launch? Or at least the only one that got a video out on launch day.

That said, I'm not sure there's any new information in that video. Spoiler: He loves it for photos.

Edit: What absolutely kills me about Tony and Chelsea is they do actually put really good info out there, and in a lot of cases they get it out there first. But they totally pull a bunch of crazy antics like having Chelsea act like a child and then have Tony talk about BANDING for half a segment and then he mentions quietly at the end "this isn't a canon thing it's an e-shutter thing and it even happens on the A9". That's not "making somebody aware" it's manufacturing a thumbnail that'll get clicks.


----------



## pj1974 (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Not familiar with him but I’ll give him a look. Thanks for the tip. Honestly - unless it’s a how-to or music or a tutorial I don’t spend a lot of time on YouTube. For me it’s cringe-worthy. I don’t do Instagram or Facebook either.
> 
> I’m not going to waste a lot of time with examples because everyone has their own opinion. A good solid example *for me* is Sony Northrup. He’d eat a tennis ball for clicks.



Gordon Laing from (UK) camera labs is one of the better camera reviewers. He's thorough (he gets through a lot of information in a short amount of time in his videos). I suspect many people would need to pause / rewind to take in all the specs and user experiences that he shares.

Gordon is also impartial, and not a fanboy. He understands the disparity between photography and videography. 
There are others like him too. I appreciate visiting Cameralabs webpage and also their videos. (In general I prefer to read full reviews via web pages rather than videos, but I've partially warmed to video format over recent years).

Other good reviewers (not an exhaustive list) include:
Bryan from The Digital Picture (US)
Klaus from Optical Limits (Australia) - lens testing - (formerly Photozone based in Germany) 
Dustin Abbott (US)

PJ


----------



## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> If you’re going to try to make the R5 do things it wasn’t designed to do or that would require it to defy the laws of nature then you’ll fail and not be a happy camper. If you pay attention to the limitations up front and learn to work around or through them, you’ll be fine.



Did you actually read the press release for the Canon R5? Canon pitched it as a pro level video camera, that could be used on set as a B-cam to the C500mk2. Don’t take my word for it... read Canons press release: 





More Canon EOS R5 specs revealed – “the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets” - Canon Press Centre - Canon Europe







www.canon-europe.com





*“suitability with high-end production workflows”*

So is it unreasonable to expect the R5 to function in accordance with what Canon stated?


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 4, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> The R6 has the same problems. You could almost forgive the R5 and say "but 45mp bro" if the R6 didn't have the same problems.



I'm not referring to the heating problems with the statement at all; I mean I know you feel really strongly about getting out the word on how you feel about the camera for whatever reason, but my comment was referring to certain technical realities that you pretty clearly don't understand.

The fact that the camera is 45 MP automatically tells anyone that knows anything about video that it doesn't have video as its primary concern. You can do your own research if you want to know why that is.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 4, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> An incident has been posted. Maybe it was simply an out of spec unit. But I bet if we had a half dozen reports you would ignore it as "just forum members." And if a YT reviewer posted the same, "just a talking head shill looking for clicks."
> 
> You want to believe what you want to believe. Period.
> 
> Other people are simply wondering, and perfectly open to the possibility that the R5 is as robust as any DSLR on stills. But you can't blame them from wondering. *The only reason video modes become limited with stills shooting is because the camera can't shed heat fast enough while shooting stills.* If it could then stills would not eat into video time. Now maybe it reaches an equilibrium point and maybe stills will never push it into the red. *But a basic understanding of thermodynamics is enough to make one question that.*



Nah, I would take it more seriously, but we don't. if you could come up with some evidence other than a message board post I'd take it more seriously. We just have one guy making a post, and then several trolls clinging to anything to scream that the camera overheats taking stills.

Again... you think it overheats taking stills. Show me one video of it. Show me a tweet by a reputable source... just a tweet. Just one; otherwise, you're just a clown screaming in the wind about nothing.

There are plenty of videos in some pretty tough conditions that say "No problems with stills". Why can't you come up with just one of someone saying stills overheated it? Just one.


----------



## StevenA (Aug 4, 2020)

Got my R5 this morning. Spent the day with it shooting a mix of stills and videos. Mostly stills. Still learning, but from what I can see the overheating thingy majigger isn't going to be an issue for what I need it for. 

Getting up in the morning to go test shoot a waterfall handheld and if it overheats I'll let you know


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 4, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I dunno why you're taking this personally.


its because he has no life and takes pics of cats, so this is the highlight of his day, and i am the one that had the camera over heat from stills, it is not mine, it is my friends who works at a camera store and he is returning the camera we were not testing it but just using a 4000 dollar paper weight that might i add has incedible tracking and terrible battery life. reading all this bitching is disgusting. the r5 is a let down of epic proportions and if people decide to waste their life owning a unreliable camera and trying to tell us all how their r5 is great i say let them sound like republicans and democrats. i used a camera to see if i was ready to switch to canon mirror-less and canon made that decision real easy, they have great dslrs and pretty good cinema bodies but their mirrorless is not sony or panasonic. there is no point trying to talk to these tribal tyrants who really know nothing of actual professional photography or cinematography, i have shot most all camera companies for photo and film, i produced a documentary on netflix, i do grip and light work for movies and music videos and a few ads, i shoot wedding videos at times and the list goes on and this work i do gives me a different perspective and knowledge of different cameras for different jobs and this r5 in its current state might be good to be used only in subzero temperatures. next to none of these people do anything outside of their 9-5 and bitching so let them bitch and take pride in knowing you are objective. 
peace


----------



## Kanon (Aug 4, 2020)

16 pages of comments, at this point. Sure is a diving camera.
oh well, there’s always a eos R1 to look forward to, any news on that canonrumers s?


----------



## degos (Aug 4, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> If the R5 couldn’t revolutionize your creativity with features not available in any other hybrid it isn’t Canon that is the problem.



Nice sidestep. The question wasn't about capabilities but claims.

Canon claimed uncompromising performance. However there are many practical compromises.

I don't shoot video so it doesn't matter to me practically. But I don't like deceit.

Canon isn't your best friend, it's ok to criticise them.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 4, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> its because he has no life and takes pics of cats, so this is the highlight of his day, and i am the one that had the camera over heat from stills, it is not mine, it is my friends who works at a camera store and he is returning the camera we were not testing it but just using a 4000 dollar paper weight that might i add has incedible tracking and terrible battery life. reading all this bitching is disgusting. the r5 is a let down of epic proportions and if people decide to waste their life owning a unreliable camera and trying to tell us all how their r5 is great i say let them sound like republicans and democrats. i used a camera to see if i was ready to switch to canon mirror-less and canon made that decision real easy, they have great dslrs and pretty good cinema bodies but their mirrorless is not sony or panasonic. there is no point trying to talk to these tribal tyrants who really know nothing of actual professional photography or cinematography, i have shot most all camera companies for photo and film, i produced a documentary on netflix, i do grip and light work for movies and music videos and a few ads, i shoot wedding videos at times and the list goes on and this work i do gives me a different perspective and knowledge of different cameras for different jobs and this r5 in its current state might be good to be used only in subzero temperatures. next to none of these people do anything outside of their 9-5 and bitching so let them bitch and take pride in knowing you are objective.
> peace



LOL.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 4, 2020)

degos said:


> Nice sidestep. The question wasn't about capabilities but claims.
> 
> Canon claimed uncompromising performance. However there are many practical compromises.
> 
> I don't shoot video so it doesn't matter to me practically. But I don't like seeing people sticking up for a lying corporation.


Did you read the title of the thread before posting that ridiculous reply?

*”DPReview: Canon EOS R5 and R6 overheating claims tested: cameras work as promised – but that’s not enough”*

The claims were proven to be as promised.....

Check my posting history, I don’t stick up for lying anythings, I also think this whole ‘doesn’t meet expectations‘ thing is pathetic. The camera is a quantum leap improvement over the 5D IV, costs less in real terms and is being crucified. Complete cancel culture bullshit. Find something serious to get this annoyed and upset about there are several current crisis that spring to mind.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 4, 2020)




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## nighthawk82 (Aug 4, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Who the hell wants to carry around multiple bodies for video during a wedding or for anything. Who wants to keep switching mods WORRYING about over heating. You want to work without worrying at all. No one wants added stress to their life.


Nobody wants to carry around multiple bodies for video during a wedding. Hence, wedding videographers will take something else. There are hundreds of thousands of people who would just like amazing stills performance and the ability to record a 10 minute clip, or many small 30 second clips, for which the R5 will do an absolutely amazing job. If you were waiting for the R5 just to record a wedding video in 8K, you're going to have to look elsewhere. AFAIK no other stills oriented camera can do it yet, maybe Sony will do it soon then you can go there in peace (assuming it doesn't overheat haha!).

For the rest of the world, the R5 is perfectly fine.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> Philip Bloom has already done a torture test for overheating on the A7s III, and it is the best performer by a mile available today.
> You've mistaken the two cameras.
> The Sony when it does overheat can be reused in minutes, the Canon takes hours.






 given this video, the Sony overheated faster.
Even if not: there may be ONE DSLM that beats the canon - but still its an incredible great performance up to this moment.
Thats true, but its also worth noting: The Canon can be used IMMEDIATLY in a 4k30 mode, even after a complete overheat. I tested this myself, there is NO cooldown necessary. 4k30 works always, and it does look great. So you can always shoot and rely on the Canon, which is in my professional experience super important.


----------



## Drakester1791 (Aug 4, 2020)

My astrophotography camera has a peltier cooler which brings the camera to 30 degrees below ambient temp to be able to take long (5+ min) exposures, and the shots are much cleaner noise-wise at -20 than they are at 0 degrees, which has got me thinking...

Will the shots from the R5/R6 ( or ANY other camera to be fair) get noisier as they heat up towards the critical shut down temp?


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> No Canon was not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus. Everything reduces the available recording time.
> Canon was not clear that cool down times could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. Please, I can’t understand why anyone that coughed up the $4200 (with tax) for this body would be ok with this highly unpredictable behavior?


Okay, that first part may be true. 
So far my R5 got no kind of highly unpredicatable behavior and these 6 hours cool down time is simply wrong.
And do not forget: even after a complete overheat, you can switch IMMEDIATLY to 4k30 (which looks great btw). There is NO cooldown time needed at all. 

Anyway, it is the best performing MILC at the market (Maybe(!) the A7S III beats it, which is a super specialized tool for video only, given the low MP count). 
I just dont get it. Even if it had only the (never overheating) 4k30 mode - it would still be a beast of camera.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

Sooo... With the R5, will I be able to go out and shoot landscapes? Or at sunrise it'll stop working as soon as the first sunray touches the camera body?
Just checking if I have to cancel my preorder.


----------



## freejay (Aug 4, 2020)

anth455 said:


> So it records for the times canon states. I don't have an 8k tv who does? The size of the files is also a bit big for me. The price of a huge cfexpress card...
> 
> I think I would like to see a serious unbiased review for stills now.


Watch Gordon Laing's photography review:


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> Okay, that first part may be true.
> So far my R5 got no kind of highly unpredicatable behavior and these 6 hours cool down time is simply wrong.
> And do not forget: even after a complete overheat, you can switch IMMEDIATLY to 4k30 (which looks great btw). There is NO cooldown time needed at all.
> 
> ...


Very true. I'm interested to see the quality of the crop 4k 30 that doesn't overheat. Might be my go to mode when I get the R5


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 4, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Finally a photography review !!! so sick of the temperature reviews. The internet has gotten mad... The only thing that people seem to care about when it comes to cameras since a month is the temperature of the body..


A temperature review is a new black.. the old black was shooting some 6 stops under and lifting shadows in post by 6 stops to spot a sign of banding...


----------



## navastronia (Aug 4, 2020)

Drakester1791 said:


> My astrophotography camera has a peltier cooler which brings the camera to 30 degrees below ambient temp to be able to take long (5+ min) exposures, and the shots are much cleaner noise-wise at -20 than they are at 0 degrees, which has got me thinking...
> 
> Will the shots from the R5/R6 ( or ANY other camera to be fair) get noisier as they heat up towards the critical shut down temp?



Answer seems to be "yes" according to page 284 in the R5 manual.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 4, 2020)

navastronia said:


> All the Canon faithful freaking out when the R5 is rightly criticized . . . Guys, the camera overheats when shooting stills, too. All actions people take with the camera (reviewing pics, video, using the Live View screen) apparently contribute to heat, which eventually leads to shutdowns. Even with stills alone, I wouldn’t shoot a wedding with a single R5 body, because what if it overheats at a critical moment? Ironic that the first Canon mirrorless with dual card slots STILL can’t be trusted solo.
> 
> Does that happen with the 5D mk. IV? No? Well, then the R5 isn’t an ideal replacement. Hence: this post.



++++ Guys, the camera overheats when shooting stills, too.

A.M.: a genuine question: are there any other reports of R5 overheating shooting stills apart from one reported by [email protected] and another [email protected]?

I also recall reading on two encounters of camera freezing / locking up shooting stills and required battery pulled out to restart. Digigal, reported on multiple encounters and [email protected] once?


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 4, 2020)

TAF said:


> I anxiously await the 50% price drop as sales plummet and the used market is saturated by dissatisfied buyers who are angry about the overheating problem.
> 
> Any wagers on when that will be?


yeah you've gotta wait until the 01 of April 2021 to hear that news.... it's a friendly joke..


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> I also recall reading on two encounters of camera freezing shooting stills and required battery pulled out to restart. Digigal, reported on multiple encounters and [email protected] once?


That looks more like a software/system crash, not overheating.


----------



## Pierre Lagarde (Aug 4, 2020)

Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum and just wanted to ask some questions and participate.
I'll just adapt what I posted on another site, sorry if I look lazy.
I must say there is at least one thing I don't understand in the DPReview article (though, I admit I'm far from being a video specialist). It's this part :

"
For instance, Sony says *the a7 III will shoot around 29 minutes of 4K video* with the temperature warnings set to ‘Std,’ while *the Fujifilm X-T4 promises 30 minutes of 4K/30 *and 20 minutes of 4K/60."

and a bit further...

"The fact that* the EOS R5 can shoot two hours of 4K/30p *footage (in line-skipping mode) when sitting in direct sunshine suggests it’s pretty good at dissipating heat."

So if it's right, it should mean R5 is able to shoot 4 times more video 4K/30p than A7III or XT-4, even in direct sunlight... is it that bad ?

And if I'm right, The R5 seems to be able to shoot in modes no other MILC is able to shoot to date.

I understand the time for having it back to normal temperature in certain conditions of usage can be a problem to some, but still, it seems we can tell, by reading tests from here and there, that this camera is outdoing what any other MILC can do today. Why concentrate then on what it supposedly can't do ? And especially when it is proven that the manufacturer clearly communicated about the camera's limitation and that this communication is recognised as true.

To my sense, it's kind of like saying Sony A9II can't do big enough prints because of pixel limitation, while most serious users report that it's a terrific camera, even for it's quite high price.


----------



## TMHKR (Aug 4, 2020)

Pape said:


> I dont know why wedding photographers feel they need spray 8k over whole event. cant they just use line skip 4k for boring moments and 8k for important moments


Because the wedding photographers are usually an insufferable bunch. I know, I've worked for one. That perfectionist psycho was NEVER satisfied, even if you made AAA-class shots


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> No Canon was not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus. Everything reduces the available recording time.
> Canon was not clear that cool down times could be a*nywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours*. Please, I can’t understand why anyone that coughed up the $4200 (with tax) for this body would be ok with this highly unpredictable behavior?


up to 6 hours cool down? righto.. something new again... just how credible is this number one would thought?

a kettle with about 1L of water in it heated to 100C would take about 30 min to cool down at room temperature conditions. unless R5 is a double walled water flask or something..


----------



## vangelismm (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> And do not forget: even after a complete overheat, you can switch IMMEDIATLY to 4k30 (which looks great btw). There is NO cooldown time needed at all.



This is important, i was thinking that the camera would be completely non operational while cooldown.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

Pierre Lagarde said:


> Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum and just wanted to ask some questions and participate.



Welcome! But note you're a bit late to the party.  We've been trying to figure it all out for about a month already and have had no luck yet.


----------



## TMHKR (Aug 4, 2020)

"But... but... BUT WE WERE TOLD BY THE CANON MARKETING THE R5 WOULD--"
Give me a break. If you couldn't realize a non-cooled electronic device would overheat when pushed to its limits, what kind of a "professional" are you, a YouTube clickbait god?


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> That looks more like a software/system crash, not overheating.


yes, completely different issue all together. not overheating.. I would hate to experience a lock up while I am shooting though. never experienced one with Canon hence I am still with the brand..


----------



## allanP (Aug 4, 2020)

lucuias said:


> I tested R5 and R6 just now and I find the camera body barely warm while the overheat sign shows .It is almost like a software limitation intended by Canon .I bet a firmware update will fix all the significant overheat issue hype over the internet .




Heat dissipation through firmware? Sorry, someone wasn't paying attention in physics class.
Only possible by permanently switching off (8k and Hi-Speed 4k) via firmware.
Then the camera would also be interesting for photographers if the price were reduced to 3k.
Why should you pay for the features you clearly lied about?

*Richard Shepherd, Canon UK Pro Product Marketing Senior Manager, said:*
_“Last month we revealed specs confirming that we have achieved the ‘impossible’ with the EOS R5. Today, we go one step further in showing we are challenging the market and showcasing our unparalleled strength – revealing the camera will offer video recording capabilities unseen in any other mirrorless camera. With its ability to record in cinema industry-standard formats and codecs, the EOS R5 is an ideal lead camera for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets.”_

Here, I would apologize and cut price for this R5 edition.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 4, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> up to 6 hours cool down? righto.. something new again... just how credible is this number one would thought?
> 
> a kettle with about 1L of water in it heated to 100C would take about 30 min to cool down at room temperature conditions. unless R5 is a double walled water flask or something..


I believe the 6 hour figure came about because a youtuber found that's how long it took for the maximum recording time to show again. But a shorter cooldown would still give you some extra minutes. I'm hoping DPReviews tests are a good guide.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 4, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> yes, completely different issue all together. not overheating.. I would hate to experience a lock up while I am shooting though. never experienced one with Canon hence I am still with the brand..


I hope Canon is being made aware of these lockups and is planning a firmware fix!


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> yes, completely different issue all together. not overheating.. I would hate to experience a lock up while I am shooting though. never experienced one with Canon hence I am still with the brand..



I had two or three crashes in 5DIV in 2016 after the purchase, the issue disappeared after one of the firmware updates.


----------



## Th0msky (Aug 4, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Hmmm. Guess we'd need a little more information on what specs are important to you. You're going to run into tradeoffs for all of them.
> 
> Sony A7SIII - Near perfect for video but bad IBIS, Animal AF doesn't work with Video, Expensive
> Canon R6 - Excellent IBIS & AF, Thermal Limitations, UWA IBIS Wobbles
> ...



Well i'd like to have
- Fullframe
- 10 bit 4:2:2 codecs
- Log profiles
- 4K up to 50fps (100 if possible, or 100fps in FHD)
- some kind of ibis
- flipscreen
- (dual card slots)
- price range of 2000-3000 euro's

I'd like to have a sony or canon camera. The A7S III is nearly perfect but just a little expensive for me and the R6 has overheating issues i actually can't deal with
Hopefully canon comes with a solution for the overheating problems that makes the R6 just of a very nice dedicated video camera.


----------



## allanP (Aug 4, 2020)

edoorn said:


> well this surprised me too yesterday when I got the signal; I expected the camera to be very hot but it wasn't. Or they've made it in a way the heat stays completely inside


Magic word - isolation. What you feel is not what you have inside.
This is also a reason why the long cool down time


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

allkar said:


> Heat dissipation through firmware? Sorry, someone wasn't paying attention in physics class.


You'd be surprised how much you can do in terms of the heat control through software/firmware.


----------



## allanP (Aug 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> You'd be surprised how much you can do in terms of the heat control through software/firmware.


As I said - switching off helps. Heat is energy and has to go outside


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 4, 2020)

allkar said:


> Heat dissipation through firmware? Sorry, someone wasn't paying attention in physics class.
> Only possible by permanently switching off (8k and Hi-Speed 4k) via firmware.
> [..]



It's even easier to do the same as Sony did with their earlier overheating cameras: just raise the threshold temperature.


----------



## allanP (Aug 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> You'd be surprised how much you can do in terms of the heat control through software/firmware.


5DMkIV (I own two) is not comparable to the energy radiation of the R5


----------



## allanP (Aug 4, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> It's even easier to do the same as Sony did with their earlier overheating cameras: just raise the threshold temperature.


With the same performance and possibilities of the camera. Exciting!


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I disagree. The YouTube idiots grabbed a piece of a rumored spec sheet and beat it into the ground until expectations were blown completely out of proportion.
> 
> The problem isn’t the messaging, it’s people not hearing what they wanted to hear and reacting in a typical way for the times.


Very true.

But ,....., on the other hand, this is perhaps the double-edge to the sword of placing certain juicy tidbits into the market and then allowing the internet to propagate your messaging and generate loads of buzz. The internet can be great for getting hints out there, and then allowing "the public" to do your marketing for you as one hype spawns a handful more and so on. The downside is that if you relinquish some control of the marketing, then you can't be quite sure where it will go to.

Am I alone own thinking Canon must have been thrilled by the coverage they were getting in the early days as the hype built and built, which has then perhaps turned to dismay now that it has gone a little off the rails as "8k video!!" has unfortunately become the message so may have taken away? (Whether that was the intended message or not).

From all I read and see, the R5 seems like an amazing (stills) camera - but I think Canon Marketing may now wish they had been more in control of pushing the message they should. (I do realise that is now being wise in hindsight).


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 4, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Very true.
> 
> But ,....., on the other hand, this is perhaps the double-edge to the sword of placing certain juicy tidbits into the market and then allowing the internet to propagate your messaging and generate loads of buzz. The internet can be great for getting hints out there, and then allowing "the public" to do your marketing for you as one hype spawns a handful more and so on. The downside is that if you relinquish some control of the marketing, then you can't be quite sure where it will go to.
> 
> ...


I think you're probably right in that they let the hype train get a little out of control. Having said that I honestly thought 8k would be for a max burst of 5 minutes. The fact you can get around 20 minutes in ideal conditions exceeded my expectations.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

allkar said:


> As I said - switching off helps. Heat is energy and has to go outside



You can't completely eliminate the heat, but you may be able to optimise the software and reduce heat generation.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> This is important, i was thinking that the camera would be completely non operational while cooldown.


Jeah  If you realy let it run in total overheat, it will freeze and you need to take out the battery. But the file is there until the end. 
Then you can restart the camera and can immediately start recording in 4k30  

I just tested external recording again: 4k60 worked for 1:40 h until the battery died. It showed overheat after a long time, but it did not overheat =) Recording quality was not affected until the last frame.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> Very true. I'm interested to see the quality of the crop 4k 30 that doesn't overheat. Might be my go to mode when I get the R5


Didnt test that so far. But the fullframe mode also doenst overheat  
If I have time I will post comparisons between 4k30 fullframe and crop mode to compare the quality =)


----------



## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> Okay, that first part may be true.
> So far my R5 got no kind of highly unpredicatable behavior and these 6 hours cool down time is simply wrong.
> And do not forget: even after a complete overheat, you can switch IMMEDIATLY to 4k30 (which looks great btw). There is NO cooldown time needed at all.
> 
> ...


You have the camera, so you must surely agree that there is a very noticeable difference between the line skipped 4K mode and the 4K HQ mode. To my eyes the HQ mode best the Sony, whereas the line skipped mode is firmly behind the Sony. I would not pay this kind of money for the line skipped only mode.
As for cool down times... you did not experience the 6 hour cool down. That doesn’t mean it’s not true or that you won’t at some point. That’s the unpredictable part that I was talking about.
Are we to believe that all of these reviewers now just have an axe to grind with Canon? Or is it possible the issues are real?
For me it completely ruins the shooting experience when I’m constantly needing to take inventory of everything I do from the moment I switch on the camera. At minimum, the 4K HQ mode should work without fear of overheating. Stills mode should not lose quality if the camera has been running for sometime. The idea that my stills picture quality decreases when overheated is alien to me.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> up to 6 hours cool down? righto.. something new again... just how credible is this number one would thought?
> 
> a kettle with about 1L of water in it heated to 100C would take about 30 min to cool down at room temperature conditions. unless R5 is a double walled water flask or something..


Jep, its bullshit. There is no 6 hours cooldown necessary.
And remember, even after an overheat, you can switch right away to 4k30 which never overheats. 

The problem is blown completely out of proportion. Of course 8k will overheat. Just like 4k30 overheats in many competitors fullframe DSLM cameras xD


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> If you realy let it run in total overheat, it will freeze and you need to take out the battery.


That still looks like a software bug, it shouldn't freeze but should just shut down properly.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

Pierre Lagarde said:


> Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum and just wanted to ask some questions and participate.
> I'll just adapt what I posted on another site, sorry if I look lazy.
> I must say there is at least one thing I don't understand in the DPReview article (though, I admit I'm far from being a video specialist). It's this part :
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum =)

Yep, you are exactly right  The R5 is the most capably DSLM right now. The overheat "problem" is blown completely out of proportion. The camera offers runtimes in 4k60 and 4k120 that no other DSLM can reach (maybe the A7S III, which got a lower pixel count on the sensor, which makes it for most photographers not suitable). Also it offers 8k raw, which is insane at this pricepoint. 
The camera operates and performce exactly as describes by canon.

The hate is only from people that will never buy or afford this camera. So far I read only positive feedback from people that actualy own and use the camera, like me


----------



## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> "But... but... BUT WE WERE TOLD BY THE CANON MARKETING THE R5 WOULD--"
> Give me a break. If you couldn't realize a non-cooled electronic device would overheat when pushed to its limits, what kind of a "professional" are you, a YouTube clickbait god?


Give *me* a break... did you actually think you could believe what Canon said the camera could do? I’m sorry, but in the real world this is deceptive advertising and fraud. You cannot legally claim a product is capable of functionality that it is actually incapable of.
Why would anyone defend such a practice?


----------



## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> up to 6 hours cool down? righto.. something new again... just how credible is this number one would thought?
> 
> a kettle with about 1L of water in it heated to 100C would take about 30 min to cool down at room temperature conditions. unless R5 is a double walled water flask or something..


You are make an assumption that the temperature is being reported correctly. The hardware would be defective in these cameras, or the software could be buggy. It could turn out to be a combination of issues.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> You have the camera, so you must surely agree that there is a very noticeable difference between the line skipped 4K mode and the 4K HQ mode. To my eyes the HQ mode best the Sony, whereas the line skipped mode is firmly behind the Sony. I would not pay this kind of money for the line skipped only mode.
> As for cool down times... you did not experience the 6 hour cool down. That doesn’t mean it’s not true or that you won’t at some point. That’s the unpredictable part that I was talking about.
> Are we to believe that all of these reviewers now just have an axe to grind with Canon? Or is it possible the issues are real?
> For me it completely ruins the shooting experience when I’m constantly needing to take inventory of everything I do from the moment I switch on the camera. At minimum, the 4K HQ mode should work without fear of overheating. Stills mode should not lose quality if the camera has been running for sometime. The idea that my stills picture quality decreases when overheated is alien to me.


I did not compare it in detail with my A7R IV 4k image. But on the first look, it looks very good to me. Didnt shoot a bigger project as of now, but some days of photoshoots. I will compare it in detail in 4k HQ mode with the normal 4k mode and take a look if the benefit is worth it.
Its also noteworthy: nearly nobody watches our footage in 4k. Full-HD is totaly enough. Even channels like Tony Northrup, which got photography fans as followers with mostly bigger screens got *only 2-3% views in 4k*. Most views are on phones. There is nearly no benefit to deilver in 4k. 
So its pretty much a luxury problem if we compare "normal 4k" and "4k ULTRA CRAZY quality". Its all better than you probably ever need. Even wedding videos are rarely watched in TRUE 4k where they could tell the difference between 4k and 4k HQ recording.
Unless you work in a higher end film-production, but than you wont pick a photo-camera for your work anyway.

The "reviewers" are just out there for clicks. All the youtube guys care only about clicks clicks and clicks. The Clickbait is insane. "Will I switch back to sony?" "The overheat is insane!" "The overheat is no big deal!" "You must watch about this dealbreaker, incredible!!!11"

Its barely anmore about photography or true video production. Its all about affiliated links. I shoot commercial productions (photo and video) pretty much every day. I have every day either a camera in my hand or a mouse to edit. While the technical aspects are certainly interesting and its nice to have a brand new camera, I miss the topic of composition and storytelling in nearly every channel.
The issue is blown out of proportion to have something to make the headlines. And maybe because some guys are jalous or disapointed that they cant film 8k raw for 10 hours straight in a DSLM.
Every working professional, who actualy owns or buys 1-4 bodies that are used daily, is fully aware of technical limitation. Especialy if a manufacturary explained these limitations in detail beforehand. You cant eat your cake and have it too. Its just unreasonable to expect 4k60 or even 8k without an overheat in one of the most compact bodies out there. For productions that are focused on this, you would certainly stick to a dedicated video camera.

However, its importat to remember that 4k60 works perfectly fine with an atomos recorder, which is a great option. Maybe even better with prores recording.
Also, there is no camera that offers 4k60 in Fullframe in DSLM body without overheat.
Canons performance is high end, not a disaster.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Give *me* a break... did you actually think you could believe what Canon said the camera could do? I’m sorry, but in the real world this is deceptive advertising and fraud. You cannot legally claim a product is capable of functionality that it is actually incapable of.
> Why would anyone defend such a practice?


What exactly does the camera not do, that was advertised?
The recording limits due to heat where completely described by canon, BEFORE release.
The Camera performs EXACTLY as they said it would.

Funfact: Sonys a7 series overheated often even in 4k30 and Sony did not mention that at all beforehand. It was just user reports that found out about it.


----------



## Pierre Lagarde (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> Welcome to the forum =)
> 
> Yep, you are exactly right  The R5 is the most capably DSLM right now. The overheat "problem" is blown completely out of proportion. The camera offers runtimes in 4k60 and 4k120 that no other DSLM can reach (maybe the A7S III, which got a lower pixel count on the sensor, which makes it for most photographers not suitable). Also it offers 8k raw, which is insane at this pricepoint.
> The camera operates and performce exactly as describes by canon.
> ...


Reminds me a bit of what happens to 6D when it was launched some years ago. Now it will stay the best selling ILC FF forever, considering the shrinking market... hope the R6/R5 could do the same, in proportion to the nowadays figures. All this noise... Just to be clear, I'm mostly a Nikon guy these days, but I'm always happy to see other brands doing a great work. It brings choices to the table.


----------



## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

Pierre Lagarde said:


> Reminds me a bit of what happens to 6D when it was launched some years ago. Now it will stay the best selling ILC FF forever, considering the shrinking market... hope the R6/R5 could do the same, in proportion to the nowadays figures. All this noise... Just to be clear, I'm mostly a Nikon guy these days, but I'm always happy to see other brands doing a great work. It brings choices to the table.


Jeah, ne noise is probably only in forums. The R5 was outsold in MINUTES xD
I ordered one 5 minutes after launche and didnt get it from canon so far xD I was lucky to get it at a local store.

I always like the Nikon cameras for photo better. The D800 was beast of a camera and incredible well build. I also think competition is great. I use cameras from different brands like Canon, Panasonic, Sony and I like them all


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> [..]
> Its also noteworthy: nearly nobody watches our footage in 4k. Full-HD is totaly enough. Even channels like Tony Northrup, which got photography fans as followers with mostly bigger screens got *only 2-3% views in 4k*. Most views are on phones. There is nearly no benefit to deilver in 4k.[..]



In the context of youtube, some creators work in a 1080p timeline and upscale it to 4k before uploading. That way youtube will have better quality at 1080p since their compression algo does a better job when downscaling instead of 1:1 encoding. So the '4k' option on youtube might actually be 1080p source material


----------



## Pape (Aug 4, 2020)

What if R5 was never camera canon hyped long as 8k master.
Just stil first camera with some video abilitys.
Maybe 8k monster was one they planned use on Tokio olympics to make all broadcastings with it.
Now they are on panic and not knowing what to do .
Some bosses say lets wait next summer with R1C and recall R5 to enchance its cooling bit.
And some bosses say ,there wont be never tokio olympics ,lets launch it now .
There are still one mystery R camera scheduled this year.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 4, 2020)

Pape said:


> Maybe 8k monster was one they planned use on Tokio olympics to make all broadcastings with it.



The R5 can't broadcast in 8K though.


----------



## Pape (Aug 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> The R5 can't broadcast in 8K though.


i was talking about R1c


----------



## Pape (Aug 4, 2020)

Just saying future video cameras arent big ,because no need tripod anymore.
There can be invented more effective cooling systems when needed. There werent need before with big cameras.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> You are make an assumption that the temperature is being reported correctly. The hardware would be defective in these cameras, or the software could be buggy. It could turn out to be a combination of issues.


correct. is a possibility. I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts on CR: it could have been a temperature sensor misreporting or software error..


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 4, 2020)

IVS said:


> You say 45MP,.. the 32.5 of the 90D on a crop frame is actually over the 45 on full frame.



If you want to print large, pixel density isn't going to help you any. 12.5MP will.



IVS said:


> Dual card slot ?... nah,..I shoot external most of the time.



You do, others do and are willing to pay extra for it.



IVS said:


> I use Zeiss 21mm among my lenses,..don't even have autofocus option



You manually focus, others autofocus, and are willing to pay extra for it.



IVS said:


> So, no.... at this point I don't see it justified to spend 1.5K over the 90D,..let alone 3K+.



And your usage scenarios are the world's gold standard?

You're welcome to stick with the 90D, but do realize some people are willing to pay extra for features you don't use.


----------



## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> What exactly does the camera not do, that was advertised?


This


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## criscokkat (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> Jep, its bullshit. There is no 6 hours cooldown necessary.
> And remember, even after an overheat, you can switch right away to 4k30 which never overheats.
> 
> The problem is blown completely out of proportion. Of course 8k will overheat. Just like 4k30 overheats in many competitors fullframe DSLM cameras xD


6 Hours is probably how long it took to get back to same temp as room. It probably gets within a degree or two of room withing the much shorter timeframes that DPR used. How fast temperature changes happen is inversely related to the difference between the temps most of the time.


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## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> This


As far as I can see there is nothing thats not working as it is described in canons description regard runtimes.


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## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> You have the camera, so you must surely agree that there is a very noticeable difference between the line skipped 4K mode and the 4K HQ mode. To my eyes the HQ mode best the Sony, whereas the line skipped mode is firmly behind the Sony. I would not pay this kind of money for the line skipped only mode.
> As for cool down times... you did not experience the 6 hour cool down. That doesn’t mean it’s not true or that you won’t at some point. That’s the unpredictable part that I was talking about.
> Are we to believe that all of these reviewers now just have an axe to grind with Canon? Or is it possible the issues are real?
> For me it completely ruins the shooting experience when I’m constantly needing to take inventory of everything I do from the moment I switch on the camera. At minimum, the 4K HQ mode should work without fear of overheating. Stills mode should not lose quality if the camera has been running for sometime. The idea that my stills picture quality decreases when overheated is alien to me.


I just took the time to take some comparisons between HQ and non HQ 4k.
HQ is certainly a bit more detailed. I used a 35mm 1,4 L II lense in an ideal studio situation with low iso and medium aperture.

As you can see, the HQ is a bit more detailed if you zom at 100%. However, If I applied just a little bit of sharpening to the image, there is no notable difference. Its certainly nothing I would notice at all in any real world situation. So I will happily use the camera in standard 4k "line skipped" mode and record as long as I wish. I can say with confident that this level of sharpness is nothing I need to ever worry about. The perfect AF and beautiful colors as well as the very good IBIS are all perfect for my work.


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## scyrene (Aug 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> Both obviously.
> Because it's complicated for you: A7sIII for video, A7r IV for stills



If you need one body for stills and another for video, how are either functioning as hybrids?


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## Bert63 (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Did you actually read the press release for the Canon R5? Canon pitched it as a pro level video camera, that could be used on set as a B-cam to the C500mk2. Don’t take my word for it... read Canons press release:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have battle fatigue from trying to have a reasonable point of view.

I’ll let people decide for themselves what’s reasonable or not. For me, it’s a stills camera with some video features and that’s how I’ll enjoy it. Others with other ideas in mind will have to choose for themselves.


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## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> As far as I can see there is nothing thats not working as it is described in canons description regard runtimes.


So when Canon states in their press release that I linked to, that the R5 can act as a B-Cam to their cinemas cameras on a professional set... you read that to mean 15 minutes of run time and 2 plus hours of down time?


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 4, 2020)

There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL, that this camera will be used successfully on Any "HIGH END" Production set. NO way will this be used a a video cam on these sets, and not at weddings (doesn't even record video to 2 Cards!). If anyone thinks they will, please let me know.

The R6 I may get. Because I would only use video for fun. And most likely only 1080.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 4, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL, that this camera will be used successfully on Any "HIGH END" Production set. NO way will this be used a a video cam on these sets, and not at weddings (doesn't even record video to 2 Cards!). If anyone thinks they will, please let me know.
> 
> The R6 I may get. Because I would only use video for fun. And most likely only 1080.


++++ doesn't even record video to 2 Cards!)
A.M.: and Canon R has never been used By wedding photogs because it writes to a single card Only?
i think it will.


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## Pierre Lagarde (Aug 4, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL,...


Gladly, we're only in purgatory


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## quilatoo (Aug 4, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> For me, it’s a stills camera with some video features and that’s how I’ll enjoy it.


Just make sure you enjoy the higher end video features _before _using the stills features, or you may end up a bit disappointed...


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## padam (Aug 4, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> Just make sure you enjoy the higher end video features _before _using the stills features, or you may end up a bit disappointed...


Do people realise that in a lot of cases, the end product is only a few minutes of 4K video?

Not everyone needs a ton of record time, they just record for a few minutes and move on.
That's how they all did with the small cameras that suffered from this problem and yet people could still produce great content with those as well.

There is a crop mode and the external recorder is also an option.

But I think the biggest mistake is that people are also trashing the standard 4K for no reason.
It is more or less as good (or bad...) as the EOS R 4K (which I think is perfectly fine) *but* without the huge 1.75x crop, rolling shutter, 8-bit internal codecs, lack of IBIS and it does it with a much more advanced AF system as well.
So what's not to like?

I think this camera will shoot beautiful standard 4K video for the web with natural colours.

Suddenly anything non-oversampled is not enough, when the 1080p in the EOS R 8-bit 4:2:0 was perfectly fine yesterday?

Seriously, people really need to look at the whole picture instead of dissecting those features that do present some problems.


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## scyrene (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Give *me* a break... did you actually think you could believe what Canon said the camera could do? I’m sorry, but in the real world this is deceptive advertising and fraud. You cannot legally claim a product is capable of functionality that it is actually incapable of.
> Why would anyone defend such a practice?



Oh no, alert the lawyers!


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## SteveC (Aug 4, 2020)

padam said:


> Do people realise that in a lot of cases, the end product is only a few minutes of 4K video?
> 
> Not everyone needs a ton of record time, they just record for a few minutes and move on.
> That's how they all did with the small cameras that suffered from this problem and yet people could still produce great content with those as well.
> ...



Yep. we have one regular commenter here who insists no one will want to use the lineskip 4K, once they see the other 4K mode. But that one comes with a price. Of course, he's raging against having to pay that price.


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## Ozarker (Aug 4, 2020)

Now I know why more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Wildly out of perspective expectations despite the goods being advertised accurately for months. It’s like that weird guy that gets his first ever lover. He knew what he was getting before tying the knot. Then he expects sympathy when he willfully ignored the signs and now demands far more than Susie never claimed she could deliver. Is Susie to blame? Not at all. The blame belongs to the psycho she married. Psycho = dummies who expect a quart to hold a gallon. It says “quart” right on the damned package.


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## PGSanta (Aug 4, 2020)

Look at that, Gerald Undone publishes his videocentric review, and even he says that he couldn’t get the camera to lock out of stills despite trying to in his testing. 






So what’s the tally so far? Like 20 reviews and videos on it not locking out in stills use...

vs.

two message board posts and 3 clowns on CanonRumors.


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 4, 2020)

padam said:


> But I think the biggest mistake is that people are also trashing the standard 4K for no reason.
> It is more or less as good (or bad...) as the EOS R 4K (which I think is perfectly fine) *but* without the huge 1.75x crop, rolling shutter, 8-bit internal codecs, lacks of IBIS but with the same Canon colours.
> So what's not to like?
> 
> Suddenly anything non-oversampled is not enough, when the 1080p in the EOS R 8-bit 4:2:0 was perfectly fine yesterday?



Stop being reasonable. We need something to feel outraged about!


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## quilatoo (Aug 4, 2020)

padam said:


> Do people realise that in a lot of cases, the end product is only a few minutes of 4K video?
> 
> Not everyone needs a ton of record time, they just record for a few minutes and move on.
> That's how they all did with the small cameras that suffered from this problem and yet people could still produce great content with those as well.
> ...


The standard 4K solution will be absolutely fine for many people, yes, including myself since I will rarely use video! But how long is this camera meant to be the cutting edge for Canon in the EOS 5 mantle? Three years, maybe four based on past timelines? Use of 4K will only grow on YouTube (already I'm seeing a lot of photography channels moving to 4K) as video streaming in 4K and 4KTV takes hold. The release of new games consoles later this year will be a potential sea change for a lot of people taking the plunge in the next twelve months in regular consumption of 4K entertainment. 1080p footage on YouTube is also often shot at 4K and either downsampled or used for in footage panning/zooming, so being able to do the same with 8K into 4K will probably soon be quite compelling; especially as it was a big part of the marketing on the R5's 8K capabilities in the launch video!

Looking at the changes in price between a7R - a7R IV, and 5D III - R5, Canon have been charging a pretty significant premium compared to Sony for upgrading to a newer model. It's why I've skipped a generation and didn't bother with the 5D IV when the improvements didn't really seem worth the increased cost of my 5D III.

How much will Sony undercut them in the next year on an a7R V while potentially working out how to include the kinds of higher end 4K and maybe 8K video features in a way that makes them significantly more user friendly than what Canon have attempted here?

I feel a lot of people are missing the wider point with why so many are annoyed with the limitations on some of the R5's video features - they're not useful enough for those who are more interested in that side of the camera, while also driving up the overall price for those only interested in the other, better side! As much as it would be easier to think so, "the media" and every YouTube channel telling you bad news about this fun thing you want isn't necessarily some paid shill angling for controversial clicks.



CanonFanBoy said:


> Now I know why more than 50% of marriages end in divorce.


Because people spend a good chunk of their savings on slightly compromised products?


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## Joules (Aug 4, 2020)

Not 100% on topic, but I've read the word 'insulated' a ton of times over the course of the last weeks in the context of the R5 overheating conversation. Obviously, the R5 isn't insulated, that would be insane product design. I've even seen people mentioning weather sealing being the reason for the insulation 

Anyway, to hopefully add some sense to that thought (And shed some light on one of the few stills focused R5 reviews), I'd like to share this portion of a video, where you can see some infra red images of the R5 after light 4K use. It shows that the heat is perfectly directed to the back, the area behind the screen. Obviously, being a flat surface and potentially covered by the screen, that does very little to effectively get the heat away from the camera. But we have already seen the cooling modules that will address that.






Notice how much brighther the screen is after recording some 4K und these screenshots of the video. Also worth noting that the heat does seem to get distributed well to the rest of the body (apeart from the grip, that actually seems to be a poor heatsink). It's worthwile video segment to watch (The rest too if you're interested in still performance with EF lenses).


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 4, 2020)

Th0msky said:


> Well i'd like to have
> - Fullframe
> - 10 bit 4:2:2 codecs
> - Log profiles
> ...


 
Yeah, those are unicorn specs. Only the Canon R5 & A7SIII can do honest fullframe 4K50. You can throw the R6 in there, but it does have a slight 1.07 crop, so technically not quite full frame. You don't mention AutoFocus so the 1DXIII would fit except that it doesn't have a flippy screen & it's a super expensive camera. Out of the entire list, except for the overheating, the R6 is your best bet. Here's to hoping a firmware update can make it more usable. Save up the extra Euro's and I'm sure the A7SIII would make you happy. 

This illustrates a good point though... many are acting like they are owed these features like they were some long standing prerequisite for any normal videographer. The truth is, we are just now getting some of these amazing specs and features.


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## padam (Aug 4, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> Looking at the changes in price between a7R - a7R IV, and 5D III - R5, Canon have been charging a pretty significant premium compared to Sony for upgrading to a newer model. It's why I've skipped a generation and didn't bother with the 5D IV when the improvements didn't really seem worth the increased cost of my 5D III.
> 
> How much will Sony undercut them in the next year on an a7R V while potentially working out how to include the kinds of higher end 4K and maybe 8K video features in a way that makes them significantly more user friendly than what Canon have attempted here?
> 
> ...


Why do you think Sony can do any better for cheaper?
The main reason for the A7SIII being less prone to overheating is exactly that: 12 Megapixels on the sensor, less heat buildup on the sensor and much less data to process internally as well.

But with that megapixel count, it fits perfectly into those slightly compromised product category and no, I would not call it cheap by any means either...


Bump the A7IV to 4k60p with 10-bit codecs, and you will probably end up with a camera overheating in that mode, just like the R6 except it might not even do it in FF mode, but with the 1.5x APS-C crop instead, which is already an annoyance itself.

They always raise prices with every generation, they are really no different to Canon, except their product cycle is shorter and they have four separate FF mirrorless models running in parallel, so their tactics are different and the price increases might not be noticed as much.
The A7RIV isn't a whole lot cheaper and it misses completely on the video front and it uses an older Bionz X processor, it does not have the full touchscreen an new Menu, etc. is basically feels a generation behind Canon, it is an older, cheaper camera, so no surprise there. A newer one will be better but also more expensive, if they design an 8K sensor, it will be even more expensive.

Canon will address the more serious video shooter needs with different models (that RF-EF Speed Booster might give a clue about what they are planning...) Sony probably won't do it the same way, as their product line-up looks different, after the A7SIII the next step up is the FX9 video camera, and they will make a smaller version of that as well to sit in between those two models.

I really don't get all this comparisons when people should be looking at systems, not particular cameras (again, the bigger picture instead of the smaller picture).


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## sanj (Aug 4, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL, that this camera will be used successfully on Any "HIGH END" Production set. NO way will this be used a a video cam on these sets, and not at weddings (doesn't even record video to 2 Cards!). If anyone thinks they will, please let me know.
> 
> The R6 I may get. Because I would only use video for fun. And most likely only 1080.


It can work great as a crash cam for action sequences on a HIGH END production. Mind it.


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## stevelee (Aug 4, 2020)

Pierre Lagarde said:


> Gladly, we're only in purgatory


Would the camera overheat there, too?


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## DBounce (Aug 4, 2020)

peters said:


> I just took the time to take some comparisons between HQ and non HQ 4k.
> HQ is certainly a bit more detailed. I used a 35mm 1,4 L II lense in an ideal studio situation with low iso and medium aperture.
> 
> As you can see, the HQ is a bit more detailed if you zom at 100%. However, If I applied just a little bit of sharpening to the image, there is no notable difference. Its certainly nothing I would notice at all in any real world situation. So I will happily use the camera in standard 4k "line skipped" mode and record as long as I wish. I can say with confident that this level of sharpness is nothing I need to ever worry about. The perfect AF and beautiful colors as well as the very good IBIS are all perfect for my work.


Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?

Honestly, we all know this camera would not have sold as well and so fast had it not been for the headline features... 8K, oversampled 4K, 4K 120p... but yet soooo much flack from having the gall to expect those features to work as Canon promised. When the fixed version is


PGSanta said:


> Look at that, Gerald Undone publishes his videocentric review, and even he says that he couldn’t get the camera to lock out of stills despite trying to in his testing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It drops image quality when it overheats in stills mode... per Canon.


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## PGSanta (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?
> 
> Honestly, we all know this camera would not have sold as well and so fast had it not been for the headline features... 8K, oversampled 4K, 4K 120p... but yet soooo much flack from having the gall to expect those features to work as Canon promised. When the fixed version is
> 
> It drops image quality when it overheats in stills mode... per Canon.


Actually it drops image quality as the sensor gets hotter period, overheated or not.... just like every single other camera on the planet.


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## Terry Danks (Aug 4, 2020)

Respinder said:


> Going all into the R5 would be very costly for me - with the body, adapter, batteries, CF express cards and a new RF lens, I'd be looking at $8-10K CAD easily. At that cost, I want something that is truly the best out there, with no compromises in performance.



Ahhhh . . . there is the rub.
The "perfect" camera! With "no compromises . . ."
Doesn't exist!
Never has.
Never will.

But there are great choices of really fine cameras. All with their strengths and weaknesses.
Looking forward to my R5. Might even play with 8K a bit . . . eventually . . . might. Not sure what I'd play it on though.

Were I a video guy, I'd look at the 12MP Sony. I have no axe to grind. I use Canon . . . but I don't have any hate on for Sony. But 12MP is not acceptable to me so that new Sony is out!.

It's the folks supposedly "in business" that perplex me the most.

The gear cost is a business expense, largely written off in their taxes. If they really "need" 8K, a second R5 body, reserved on standby JUST to record 8K seems a mighty cheap way to get it. Beats the cost of an Arri, or a Red.

Methinks there is a lot of breast beating going on that is really just the same old fan boi gear wars we've always had.


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## quilatoo (Aug 4, 2020)

padam said:


> Why do you think Sony can do any better for cheaper?
> The main reason for the A7SIII being less prone to overheating is exactly that: 12 Megapixels on the sensor, less heat buildup on the sensor and much less data to process internally as well.
> 
> But with that megapixel count, it fits perfectly into those slightly compromised product category and no, I would not call it cheap by any means either...
> ...


The problem isn't that it overheats, and as you say any new camera right now would, but how it cools down. There's no reason to think Sony wouldn't consider putting in a better cooling solution in their next big camera (whether that's a fan or whatever) after seeing the flack Canon have received for their pretty significantly compromised higher end video features.

Sony of course raise their prices between generations, just not nearly as much as Canon does. The point is, with Sony updating their mainline cameras at about twice the rate Canon does, that system feels like less of a risk because you're not "stuck" with the current model for as long a period and the like-for-like cost is a fair bit cheaper. Maybe the time Canon takes until the R5 II is a similar time frame to Sony (and I'll choose to be optimistic and see the time between the EOS R and R5 as being an indicator of that) but it could well be another four years until we see what Canon will ultimately do to improve their hardware.

There are plenty of Canon shooters in the last few years who have made a switch to another system, primarily Sony, in part because of those reasons and because it felt like Canon were starting to lag behind with the shift into mirrorless.

There have also been plenty of Canon shooters like me who have stuck around because the RF system is that significant long term step up we had hoped for, it's just mainly for photographers. I do think it's fair to say though that those people who really do need a hybrid camera most of the time, whose limitations really don't get in the way, and are looking for a more future proofed set of features, might be tempted away in 2021 if Sony manages to address those concerns.


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## peters (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?


Of course not, an improvement is always better. What kind of illogical thinking is this?
But saying that canon did not delivered as promised is simply wrong. 

And I can not emphasise this enough: ALL THESE FEATURES WORK EXACTLY AS CANON DESCRIBED BEFOREHAND. The exact overheat limits where stated in detail before the release by canon. 
Its not like sony, who build the A7 line and simply not mentioned the overheating problems at all until buyers found out. 




> It drops image quality when it overheats in stills mode... per Canon.


ALL Cameras of ALL manufacturers are getting more noise at higher temperatures. Thats simple physics. And of course canon would state that in their manual, they always have. Thats nothing new and not a special "problem" of the R5. Its basicaly not visible at all - unless you do some astro photography with ultra long shutter time. 

I get it, you choose to hate the camera - thats its fine.


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## padam (Aug 4, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> Sony of course raise their prices between generations, just not nearly as much as Canon does. The point is, with Sony updating their mainline cameras at about twice the rate Canon does, that system feels like less of a risk because you're not "stuck" with the current model for as long a period and the like-for-like cost is a fair bit cheaper. Maybe the time Canon takes until the R5 II is a similar time frame to Sony (and I'll choose to be optimistic and see the time between the EOS R and R5 as being an indicator of that) but it could well be another four years until we see what Canon will ultimately do to improve their hardware.
> 
> There are plenty of Canon shooters in the last few years who have made a switch to another system, primarily Sony, in part because of those reasons and because it felt like Canon were starting to lag behind with the shift into mirrorless.
> 
> There have also been plenty of Canon shooters like me who have stuck around because the RF system is that significant long term step up we had hoped for, it's just mainly for photographers. I do think it's fair to say though that those people who really do need a hybrid camera most of the time, whose limitations really don't get in the way, and are looking for a more future proofed set of features, might be tempted away in 2021 if Sony manages to address those concerns.



Again they are different companies, as you may have seen, Sony did not put S-Log in the A9 and A9 II cameras, mainly to protect the A7S III, which came a lot later than these cameras, which could have been just as great for video as they are for sports shooting.
The truth is, Sony has way more models than needed, both new and old with those upgrade cycles and yet it seems they somehow still manage to convince some customers that it is a good thing to upgrade constantly, like with smartphones.

They are not chasing high megapixel 8K video for now, there will be the usual improvements to the A7RV but it will not be made into a video beast like the A7S III so it will be less of a hybrid camera, they are segmenting the models just like Canon does only with different tools at hand.

Most people who are this serious about video have a cinema camera at hand and use a camera like this as a B-cam or take advantage of the IBIS for short takes.

As I wrote multiple times, the RF-mount as a system is looking better and better, there will be models more focused on video shooting, all people notice is the problems instead of seeing that Canon is producing an 8K sensor with a fairly fast readout, so they certainly have the capability to do much more, too.

And people whining on forums about overheating (without actually being event shooters, who might not shoot the highest quality anyway) and "threating" to choose A7S III or similar instead (that is being over-hyped on YouTube right now, it is a great camera but might not be what most people need who watch these reviews) will not likely to stop its momentum.
It is still in the phase of building up and considering it is less than two years old, it looks quite good and also heavily backed up by the EF-mount as well, which is still the standard mount for the stills lenses, which are being used for video.


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## Respinder (Aug 4, 2020)

Terry Danks said:


> Ahhhh . . . there is the rub.
> The "perfect" camera! With "no compromises . . ."
> Doesn't exist!
> Never has.
> ...



Fair point - I guess my "perfect" camera would have been the 1DX Mark III although it is EF-only/DSLR so perhaps imperfect from that definition
The 5D Mark II would also be considered a "perfect" camera IMO - although once you consider variables like price in the mix (is the price too high), then I guess there may never be a "perfect" camera.

But I suppose where I was coming from in stating all of this is that the R5 is an incredibly expensive camera with lots of hidden costs. It's not just the cost of the body ($5,399CAD) but also the cost of a new CFexpress card, new batteries, the EF-RF adapter, and the battery grip (just to get a decent battery life) and I'm coming out to nearly $8K in total cost (I know.. 8K for $8K! Crazy!!). So the point here is that with so much money on the line, I really don't want to put all my money into something unless its delivering the optimal performance that I need. I'll be monitoring things over the next few months to see how things all play out, but in the interim, I really hope that Canon at least pushes out some sort of firmware update.


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## Otara (Aug 4, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?



If someone offers me a way to get 10mpg more out of my car, Im going to take it. Who on earth wouldnt?


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## Ozarker (Aug 4, 2020)

Dweeb One: "Canon sells a camera that doesn't overheat in 8k video mode and can record for as long as your memory holds out!"
Dweeb Two: "But it isn't weather sealed! For nearly $4k I expect full weather sealing, thermo nuclear protection, and FF 8K video with zero time limits and no overheating!"


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## Th0msky (Aug 4, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Yeah, those are unicorn specs. Only the Canon R5 & A7SIII can do honest fullframe 4K50. You can throw the R6 in there, but it does have a slight 1.07 crop, so technically not quite full frame. You don't mention AutoFocus so the 1DXIII would fit except that it doesn't have a flippy screen & it's a super expensive camera. Out of the entire list, except for the overheating, the R6 is your best bet. Here's to hoping a firmware update can make it more usable. Save up the extra Euro's and I'm sure the A7SIII would make you happy.
> 
> This illustrates a good point though... many are acting like they are owed these features like they were some long standing prerequisite for any normal videographer. The truth is, we are just now getting some of these amazing specs and features.


completely agree with you. that also makes these decisions very difficult. because point is, up until now, i've always shot my footage in regular FHD. But just because it seems like 4K is going to be the new standard somewhat soon, I feel like I have to save up for it and be ready to use 4K (up to 50fps) all day long just like I normally would on a regular shoot. (except from maybe an occasional documentary where 4K 25fps would be enough but still).

I also feel like I like canon's ergonomics and workways more than sony's. Thats why I wanted the R6 so badly. Hope they release some nice hardware or firmware updates that would make R6 just fine for a nice videography camera. because I simply can't rely on a camera that is going to overheat no matter what I do in the long run.


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## mppix (Aug 5, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Yeah, those are unicorn specs. Only the Canon R5 & A7SIII can do honest fullframe 4K50.


Actually no: Panasonic S1H, S1, S1R and even the Leica SL2 (Leica!!!) can to 4K50/60
And you can add m34 (Panasonic) and apsc (Fuji T4) to that mix. Thermally, it is certainly not easier to manage these cams just because the sensor is smaller; actually it is more difficult in even smaller bodies.


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 5, 2020)

mppix said:


> Actually no: Panasonic S1H, S1, S1R and even the Leica SL2 (Leica!!!) can to 4K50/60
> And you can add m34 (Panasonic) and apsc (Fuji T4) to that mix. Thermally, it is certainly not easier to manage these cams just because the sensor is smaller; actually it is more difficult in even smaller bodies.


I had all those on my original list except the Leica if you cared to look back. If you look at what Th0msky wanted in a camera, it rules all of them out.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 5, 2020)

SwissFrank said:


> OK, man, just stay at home and we'll pay you anyway. Just tell us where to send the checks!
> 
> Seriously though, I'm not a wedding photog. (The only pro work I did was a little stock in the 90s.) But I shot weddings for friends/family with two bodies, with 24-70 and 70-200, or with 24-105IS and 85/1.2* or 135/2. Or for indoor/outdoor events, an ISO 100 body and ISO 400 body, sharing 17-35, 24-70, 24-105 and 50/1.4 as needed.
> 
> ...


Two bodies for video isnt the same as for photos. Most of the time if I need two cameras for video, I just hire another guy.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 5, 2020)

sanj said:


> It can work great as a crash cam for action sequences on a HIGH END production. Mind it.


it's a risky proposition as the camera may reach an overheating state while you were staging the shoot..and being position, say on, the trunk of the crash vehicle... it may be a quite heated place.. so again, y are risking to miss the shoot here.. I am not a videographer, but such a use case is quite probable.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 5, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?
> 
> Honestly, we all know this camera would not have sold as well and so fast had it not been for the headline features... 8K, oversampled 4K, 4K 120p... but yet soooo much flack from having the gall to expect those features to work as Canon promised. When the fixed version is
> 
> *It drops image quality when it overheats in stills mode...* per Canon.


no, you are reading it wrong:
it may drop the image quality only when the white overheating indicator is on in STILL shooting mode. not the video mode... major difference.


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## Pierre Lagarde (Aug 5, 2020)

stevelee said:


> Would the camera overheat there, too?



Don't know, haven't tested myself. What I'm sure of is that some brains need to cool down here and there.


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## SteveC (Aug 5, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> no, you are reading it wrong:
> it may drop the image quality only when the white overheating indicator is on in STILL shooting mode. not the video mode... major difference.



That's OK he has his reading, and he'll likely go off and repeat himself elsewhere. Or someone else will.

The same bad points keep being brought up and debunked over and over again. Now there are some legitimate gripes/concerns here, but they're buried under the bullshit that keeps getting recycled. (And there are both good and bullshit answers, too, the good again being buried under the bullshit.)


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## dtaylor (Aug 5, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> no, you are reading it wrong:
> it may drop the image quality only when the white overheating indicator is on in STILL shooting mode. not the video mode... major difference.



Resolution is fixed. But noise and DR are going to vary with any variation in temperature in the analog stages (so basically the sensor circuitry before the ADCs). That's true of any camera, and it's the reason why dedicated astro cameras are cooled. For a given temperature change the change in IQ may be too small to notice or worry about. But it's going to be there.

It would be interesting to see PTP take a few DSLR and mirrorless bodies, run a high use test (a thousand frames?), and measure the initial and final frames to determine if the changes are human observable and how they compare between OVF and EVF.

To be clear this isn't specifically an R5/R6 issue. Their sensors may be warmer or cooler than the average mirrorless under heavy shooting. There's no way to know without measuring them. But it's pretty clear that it's not the sensors which are retaining heat and creating an issue for video work.


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## stevensteven (Aug 5, 2020)

Got my R5 two days ago. Here are two interesting findings about the overheating: 

1. I woke up this morning and wanted to import into my computer my photos from yesterday. It took about 10-15 minutes with the camera turned on and plugged into the computer to complete the process. Once this was done, I picked up the camera. Naturally, it was not hot. But when I checked into the video mode, My remaining time for shooting in 4KHQ 24p had gone from 25 minutes to 10 minutes.
At first, I did accept the limitations on paper. But seeing this, I feel like I almost got scammed from Canon. They didn't have the right to advertise 4KHQ with that kind of performance. 

2. In the afternoon, it was 34 degrees out. I left the R5 in the car for 3 hours, in the sun. When I came back, it was boiling, and I could have almost cooked an egg on top of it. I turned it on thinking I would have 0 minute left of shooting. Well, I have the full 25 mins left, and same for 8k. Go figure ! 

My thought is that it's probably the best hybrid camera available right now. But if canon doesn't fix this overheating issue fast, I will most likely switch to the A74 when that comes out, if the rumors turned out to be exact. By that I mean at least 20MP for stills, and 4K 10 bit 24p for video. 
I really wanted to love that camera, and although its great for still, the video performance is making me really sad.


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## PGSanta (Aug 5, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Got my R5 two days ago. Here are two interesting findings about the overheating:
> 
> 1. I woke up this morning and wanted to import into my computer my photos from yesterday. It took about 10-15 minutes with the camera turned on and plugged into the computer to complete the process. Once this was done, I picked up the camera. Naturally, it was not hot. But when I checked into the video mode, My remaining time for shooting in 4KHQ 24p had gone from 25 minutes to 10 minutes.
> At first, I did accept the limitations on paper. But seeing this, I feel like I almost got scammed from Canon. They didn't have the right to advertise 4KHQ with that kind of performance.
> ...


Exporting can be a pretty intensive task. That said, it sucks that it’s another thing that eats into video time, and yet another thing that adds to the biggest problem with video on the bodies.... how difficult it is for people to even plan usage with such inconsistent times.


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

We've got a guy in the Canon Rumors Discord forum that has some great/bizzarre news on overheating. He seems to have discovered a magic wand here... 

Hoping he posts in here shortly. Gave him the link. Ya'll need to get on Discord and follow the CR forum there. Lot's going on!


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## Random Orbits (Aug 5, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Got my R5 two days ago. Here are two interesting findings about the overheating:
> 
> 1. I woke up this morning and wanted to import into my computer my photos from yesterday. It took about 10-15 minutes with the camera turned on and plugged into the computer to complete the process. Once this was done, I picked up the camera. Naturally, it was not hot. But when I checked into the video mode, My remaining time for shooting in 4KHQ 24p had gone from 25 minutes to 10 minutes.
> At first, I did accept the limitations on paper. But seeing this, I feel like I almost got scammed from Canon. They didn't have the right to advertise 4KHQ with that kind of performance.
> ...



I don't remember the last time I plugged a camera with a wire into a computer to transfer files outside of work, which is probably also why I don't understand why people are so gung-ho about USB-C charging. I'd rather not risk ruining the port or some other assembly on the camera that'll cost hundreds to replace in the case the wire gets snagged, etc.

The R5's closer competitor isn't the A74, it's the A7R4, which has more limited video features than the R5. And if the past is any indication, I'd also agree that the Sony would be better for video... but the A74 is slotted against the R6, which doesn't overheat when using 4K24 (similar to quality of R5 HQ) with an external recorder accord to Gerald Undone's latest tests. So you have the same dichotomy in Canon that you have with Sony. The higher IQ cameras are prone to overheating due to their higher resolution sensors that require more processing. The A7S3 is optimized for 4K with a 12MP sensor, and the A74 will fall somewhere in between. The bigger limitation I see with the R5/R6 is that only Clog is available and not Clog3, which preserves more DR. That and the record limit of 29:59 are limitations in the R ecosystem that are not in Sony's ecosystem.

Personally, I've been burned by Sony. First with an expensive DLP TV that had issues that Sony finally acknowledged but they killed off the line so they never had to fix it, and now more recently with one of their "Tough" UHS-II card. I had predominantly used SanDisk without issue, but I was tempted by Sony's higher speeds and how many have recommended the Tough cards. But then I had 3 file failures in 2 weeks with low-level formats in between. Of course, mine wasn't in the batch that was "recalled" but it also failed shortly after the warranty expired. I've had issues with my Canon gear, but Canon has always been able to fix (some under warranty and some not) them at reasonable prices. If I had only 1 camera body a couple consumer-grade lenses, then I might "risk" Sony, but I'd consider it disposable. But not with multiple bodies with lots of lenses. I'm just glad that Canon closed the "body gap" for stills. Canon may not have "won" video, but as of now, it's video is competitive as opposed to DOA like the 5D4/original R. What other FF MILC has 8K? Will I use it? Probably not, but now I might actually start using 4K instead of 1080P, and that is an upgrade. Do I need 4K HQ? Probably not... usually my videos are of the kids performances where I leave the camera on a tripod (with the start/stop in breaks to deal with the video limit). Is 4K HQ sharper and less noisy? Yes... but I'm not cropping video and at TV viewing distances, it should be OK. Perhaps I'll pick up an external recorder down the line, and by then maybe there will be an aftermarket solution (i.e. tilta cooling fan). Or perhaps Canon will release a RF camcorder. These ARE interesting times.


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## Ozarker (Aug 5, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> They didn't have the right to advertise 4KHQ with that kind of performance.


Yes, they did have the right. They even specified the time limits. Fix the overheating issue? What issue? Switch to the A7 Mark IV? You don't think it will overheat when it shoots FF 8k or FF 4KHQ (downsampled 8k). Will it even shoot 8k? If not, then why not keep the R5 if it will not overheat in 4k? Just how many minutes of 8k do you typically shoot, and onto what size cards?


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## VictraBarca (Aug 5, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Yes, they did have the right. They even specified the time limits. Fix the overheating issue? What issue? Switch to the A7 Mark IV? You don't think it will overheat when it shoots FF 8k or FF 4KHQ (downsampled 8k). Will it even shoot 8k? If not, then why not keep the R5 if it will not overheat in 4k? Just how many minutes of 8k do you typically shoot, and onto what size cards?


Why are you talking about 8K? He's talking about 4K HQ.


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## Ozarker (Aug 5, 2020)

VictraBarca said:


> Why are you talking about 8K? He's talking about 4K HQ.


4kHQ is down sampled from 8k. What are you babbling about? He's not just talking about 4k HQ. He's talking about overheating and how a Sony might be the solution... it probably is, because it doesn't even shoot in the modes he's concerned about. In other words, Canon's overheating isn't really the issue with him because he'd be perfectly happy with a mode that won't overheat as long as the brand is different.


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## stevensteven (Aug 5, 2020)

Actually, I am just talking about 4K HQ. I would never use anything above 24fps either. 
Im just very disappointed by the idea of going into a lower quality mode of 4K. The DR is worse than on Sony as well.. 



CanonFanBoy said:


> 4kHQ is down sampled from 8k. What are you babbling about? He's not just talking about 4k HQ. He's talking about overheating and how a Sony might be the solution... it probably is, because it doesn't even shoot in the modes he's concerned about. In other words, Canon's overheating isn't really the issue with him because he'd be perfectly happy with a mode that won't overheat as long as the brand is different.


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## stevensteven (Aug 5, 2020)

Random Orbits said:


> I don't remember the last time I plugged a camera with a wire into a computer to transfer files outside of work, which is probably also why I don't understand why people are so gung-ho about USB-C charging. I'd rather not risk ruining the port or some other assembly on the camera that'll cost hundreds to replace in the case the wire gets snagged, etc.
> 
> *I didn't receive my CFexpress reader yet. I don't care if the camera overheats while importing. Im just pointing out my first observations. *
> 
> ...


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## Otara (Aug 5, 2020)

I copy the data to the sd card slot in the camera, then read off that card. Slower but avoids having to connect the whole camera.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 6, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> *Today, its direct competitor is the A7R4, and its a better choice, sure. Thats why I sold my a7r4 last week and got the R5. I thought it was going to be the last camera I ever need to carry with me to do all I need, but I was wrong. Great for stills, not so great for video. I prefer 4K HQ 24fps to Sony's 8 bit. But I prefer Sony's 8bit to the LQ more that reminds me of the R. Bad 4k (in my opinion) and bad DR. Sony is better.
> However, when the a74 will come out, it might become the direct competitor for the real 50/50 hybrid shooter. While the 12mp of the a7siii is a bit low for stills, I don't need 45 either. The 24 range is perfect for a hybrid shooter, I think... So if you give me an a74 with the same colours as the A7SIII, the DR of the A7III or better, and 4K 24 10 BIT 422 unlimited, I will think its a better choice than the R5 with its overheating. It will be the perfect camera for. And the perfect system, as I will also have the peace of mind that If I ever need more video specs, all I need to do is add an A7S3 body to my kit.
> 
> By the way, I love canon. I want to stick to canon. But they have really disappointed me before. And just so you know, I used to defend them until I received my R5. I was on their side. But after trying it, im just too shocked at how badly it performs in the HQ video modes. I even want to cry a little bit. *



Looks like the R6 would have been a better fit for you rather than the R5 because you don't need the resolution. 40 min 4K24 internal recording or unlimited external recording with its regular 4K is similar to the R5's 4K24 HQ. Either that or stuck with your Sony.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 6, 2020)

Otara said:


> I copy the data to the sd card slot in the camera, then read off that card. Slower but avoids having to connect the whole camera.



I ordered a CFexpress card and a reader. The card is available but the reader is backordered, so i told them to charge both when both are available in a couple weeks. For now, it's a UHS-II SD card only.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 6, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Resolution is fixed. But noise and DR are going to vary with any variation in temperature in the analog stages (so basically the sensor circuitry before the ADCs). That's true of any camera, and it's the reason why dedicated astro cameras are cooled. For a given temperature change the change in IQ may be too small to notice or worry about. But it's going to be there.
> 
> It would be interesting to see PTP take a few DSLR and mirrorless bodies, run a high use test (a thousand frames?), and measure the initial and final frames to determine if the changes are human observable and how they compare between OVF and EVF.
> 
> To be clear this isn't specifically an R5/R6 issue. Their sensors may be warmer or cooler than the average mirrorless under heavy shooting. There's no way to know without measuring them. But it's pretty clear that it's not the sensors which are retaining heat and creating an issue for video work.


Oh, noise and DR would certainly vary with any variation of temperature. To what extend though? Micro variations?
my point is though: it won’t affect photographic application beyond perhaps the most extreme types of photography like Astro or “photo measurbation”. Example: one will be taking photos 6 stops under exposed and pushing shadow in post by 6 stops to to spot a slight Banding or slightly increased noise levels.
I am not a photo measurbator and focus on creativity instead. So in my view, R5 is an immensely useful camera but unfortunately priced way to high in Australia at this stage. prohibitively expensive.


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## PGSanta (Aug 6, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Actually, I am just talking about 4K HQ. I would never use anything above 24fps either.
> Im just very disappointed by the idea of going into a lower quality mode of 4K. The DR is worse than on Sony as well..



The DR is limited by C-Log, something Canon could easily fix if it desires. If you check out Gerald Undone's video, he shows through an examination of the PDR profile that they could very easily improve video DR to bring it in line with everyone else.

Based purely on PDR though... Canon has the best dynamic range in the business now.

Yet another thing getting buried under the overheating mess.

The R5 has BETTER DR than a Sony, has BETTER low light eye AF than even the A7III, BETTER IBIS, BETTER tracking... it really is shaping up to the the best stills tool on the market. 

Video.... not so much.


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## stevensteven (Aug 6, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> The DR is limited by C-Log, something Canon could easily fix if it desires. If you check out Gerald Undone's video, he shows through an examination of the PDR profile that they could very easily improve video DR to bring it in line with everyone else.
> 
> Based purely on PDR though... Canon has the best dynamic range in the business now.
> 
> ...



It might have the best DR for stills, but not at all for video. Sure, maybe CLOG 3 an help, but CLOG 3 isn't here, and if we look at history, it might be a long time (or never) until we get it. 
So I'm getting a little bit tired of waiting... 
For now, its the best hybrid. But im not investing in anything else than an RF 35MM 1.8 at the moment, because I fear they might not be able to keep up with Sony, especially when they A74 comes out and becomes the best hybrid on the market...


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## koenkooi (Aug 6, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> It might have the best DR for stills, but not at all for video. Sure, maybe CLOG 3 an help, but CLOG 3 isn't here, and if we look at history, it might be a long time (or never) until we get it.[..]



Only buy electronics for features they have *right now*, don't buy them for features that are promised in future updates.


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## stevensteven (Aug 6, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Only buy electronics for features they have *right now*, don't buy them for features that are promised in future updates.



Couldn't agree more with you. Thats why I don't get the people saying but maybe with an update it will not overheat and maybe with an update the dynamic range because this YouTube said that. 

The point is, for whatever reasons that belongs to Canon's management decision, the camera overheats and doesn't have a DR in video comparable to the older Sonys...


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Aug 13, 2020)

Has anyone seen this yet? It appears that the "overheating" is almost completely a software issue, and not based on actual camera overheating.






EOSHD testing finds Canon EOS R5 overheating to be fake, with artificial timers deployed to lock out video mode – EOSHD.com – Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews







www.eoshd.com


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## privatebydesign (Aug 13, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Has anyone seen this yet? It appears that the "overheating" is almost completely a software issue, and not based on actual camera overheating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stop reading EOSHD, they are so biased and ridiculous about this anything they say is trained by their previous unmitigated comments.

But specifically they are recording a single point camera internal temp, NOT the temp of the CFexpress cards that have been shown to be the bottleneck, not the software. Others have done similar things and when you record to card then pull the card they are hot.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Aug 13, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Stop reading EOSHD, they are so biased and ridiculous about this anything they say is trained by their previous unmitigated comments.
> 
> But specifically they are recording a single point camera internal temp, NOT the temp of the CFexpress cards that have been shown to be the bottleneck, not the software. Others have done similar things and when you record to card then pull the card they are hot.


Ah, I understand. I was also suspicious about maybe another part of the camera outside of where the temperature was being measured may be getting hot. I had heard that the CF express cards get hot, but I'm surprised that they seem to be t_he_ bottleneck for how long this camera can record for. But I guess that does give hope that newer CF express cards may run cooler in the future.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 13, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Ah, I understand. I was also suspicious about maybe another part of the camera outside of where the temperature was being measured may be getting hot. I had heard that the CF express cards get hot, but I'm surprised that they seem to be t_he_ bottleneck for how long this camera can record for. But I guess that does give hope that newer CF express cards may run cooler in the future.


I think newer tech working better is unlikely as it would be a newer standard that isn't implementable retroactively, like SD and SD UHS-II. I understand some people need more than the R5 can do but for them I'd just say move on and get a camera that does do what you need. The R5 does do what Canon says it does and you should plan any purchasing decision on that, and by most reasonable accounts and examples I have seen the standard 4k is extremely close to the 4kHQ and that is unlimited. I have also seen accounts of people shooting entire weddings with an R5 in one of the HQ modes using it smartly with the published design limitations in mind.

There will be people making a noise and EOSHD seem to have staked their claim as being the most ridiculously mistreated by Canon for daring to sell such a POS camera. Others are using it for what it was designed for and within its stated limits and are loving it.


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