# Canon EOS 5D Mark III AI Servo AF Point Annoyance Firmware Fix Coming



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 6, 2012)

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<p><strong>AI servo


</strong>A lot of people, myself included are quite annoyed at the black AF points when using AI servo mode on the 5D Mark III. It’s nearly impossible to see in some situations, especially in low light. I think most people would like the ability to turn on the red AF point you see when you lock focus in one shot mode. I’m not sure if this was by design, or if it’s actually something that was overlooked in testing.</p>
<p>You can see the discussions at [<a href="http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1099852" target="_blank">FM</a>] and [<a href="http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1172843" target="_blank">POTN</a>]</p>
<p>I will say that the AF works terrific in AI servo mode, it’s just tough to see the AF point at times.</p>
<p><strong>Firmware fix?</strong>


I am told by a couple of people that the above issue is known by Canon and they will fix it with a firmware update in the future. The fix may take some time though.</p>
<p>Here’s hoping they also add the ability to change the image review zoom button mapping back to the top right.</p>
<p>You can let Canon know you’d like it fixed <a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/professional/professional_cameras/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii/form_display/support_by_email?WT.mc_id=C126149" target="_blank">here</a>.</p>
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## smithy (May 6, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III AI Servo AF Point Annoyance*

What colour are the AF points on the 1D series bodies? Is the the 5D III the only Canon SLR with black AF points?


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## wockawocka (May 6, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III AI Servo AF Point Annoyance*

It won't be fixed, or ever will be fixed because of the design.

When the 5D3 AF points light up briefly the whol viewfinder lights up so anything you focus on will have a red tinge to it in the viewfinder.

TBH, it's the one thing I really miss coming from the 1Ds3, that and the abiliity to focus fast in low light. The 1Ds3 still has that too.


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## pwp (May 6, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III AI Servo AF Point Annoyance*

Have just done my first job with a 5D3 and for the most part I'm happy with the overall performance. 

But this is a staggering error on Canon's part, crippling workflow in a fast moving dynamic shooting situation. They have set up this camera with a brilliant AF system, yet you frequently lose sight of the selected focus point because it's BLACK!

If this is firmware fixable then Canon would win friends by getting the update out to us ASAP. This issue is reason enough to not cancel my 1DX pre-order as I expected to do and be prepared to take the $$ hit selling the 5D3 when the 1DX eventually ships.

Paul Wright


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## neuroanatomist (May 6, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III AI Servo AF Point Annoyance*

Is the behavior different than transmissive LCD on the 7D?


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## nikkito (May 6, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III AI Servo AF Point Annoyance*



pwp said:


> Have just done my first job with a 5D3 and for the most part I'm happy with the overall performance.
> 
> But this is a staggering error on Canon's part, crippling workflow in a fast moving dynamic shooting situation. They have set up this camera with a brilliant AF system, yet you frequently lose sight of the selected focus point because it's BLACK!
> 
> ...



Paul, when i tested the 1D X the autofocus was the same. Black autofocus points.


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## risc32 (May 6, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III AI Servo AF Point Annoyance*

This is my biggest beef with this camera. On my 1dmk2 i get to have a red focus spot lit up all the time, so it's super easy to find it in any lighting. Of course it's not all roses, as moving that point around is harder than with the 5dmk3, and the 5dmk3 focuses much better in low light. Then again, i have my 1dmk2 set up with one button that activates an off center AF point, and another button for the center AF point. I've used it like that orientation feature that the 7d started all along.


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## wockawocka (May 6, 2012)

The black AF point is a big PITA

Almost makes me want to go back to the 1Ds3....almost.


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## jalbfb (May 6, 2012)

I agree with the black AF point not lighting up red. CR provided us with a way of letting Canon know what our frustrations/concerns/recommendations are so I recommend we all flood them with these requests and put pressure on them to respond and if possible correct it in a firmware update.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 6, 2012)

I found that it was annoying in low light to be unable to see the selected AF point. I could press the Point selection button and light them all up for three seconds or so, so its just a software change to allow lighting the points.

I hope the option is offered.


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## BDD (May 6, 2012)

All these issues (e.g. light leak in addition to the AI Servo issue....and those mentioned in the YouTube clip interview with Chuck Westfall). Makes me glad i didn't run out and buy a 5D3 early. Not that I was planning to. 

The good news is Canon recognizes these issues and has been coming out with fixes quickly. 

But regarding sharpness and having to do this in post processing...to get better sharpness...I would have preferred to have more in-camera sharpness. So we could spend less time in post. Not that the photos I've already seen from the 5D3 (and 5D2) aren't "sharp enough".


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## swampler (May 6, 2012)

BDD said:


> But regarding sharpness and having to do this in post processing...to get better sharpness...I would have preferred to have more in-camera sharpness. So we could spend less time in post. Not that the photos I've already seen from the 5D3 (and 5D2) aren't "sharp enough".


Sounded to me like he was referring to video sharpness in that clip.


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## Pompo (May 6, 2012)

*Re: Let Canon know you want the Firmware Fix (link)!*

Chuck mentioned that we would like more red(?) we (I) woul dlike the black af point more visible and being able to turn on the af point I'm using in red....Please send your request for the firmaware fix here:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/professional/professional_cameras/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii/form_display/support_by_email?WT.mc_id=C126149


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## Viggo (May 6, 2012)

I can't find the form to tell Canon what I want changed on the european site, can someone please tell them this? :

1. Faster wakeup.
2. The abillity to add "choose AF scenario" as an item on My Menu.
3. Of course the AF illumination issue.
4. Support for UHS SD cards.
5. Choose which drive modes available on selection.
6. The abillity to use the multi controller to choose submenues and the small top wheel to scroll top menues (without 
going through every single submenu.
7. Exposure compensation in M mode (in auto iso mode)
8. Set the HDR/Picture Style/Multi exposure button to bracketing mode.
9. One card video one card stillpicture auto switch. (activated by which LV mode)


What I could think of for now. Add this to your list when sending in yur own suggestions please. Copy/paste is all it takes! 

Thanks


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## swampler (May 6, 2012)

Viggo said:


> I can't find the form to tell Canon what I want changed on the european site, can someone please tell them this? :
> 
> 2. The abillity to add "choose AF scenario" as an item on My Menu.
> 3. Of course the AF illumination issue.
> ...


I agree with all 4 of these. Would be great updates.


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## armando (May 6, 2012)

This is why I'm waiting 2+ years to upgrade from the 5d Mkii after all these issues are out of the way


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## Viggo (May 6, 2012)

armando said:


> This is why I'm waiting 2+ years to upgrade from the 5d Mkii after all these issues are out of the way



What you fail to realize is that I have already gotten thousands of images I never could have gotten with the mk2. These issues are only to perfect the camera that already kills the mk2. Just the fact that my images aren't all center composed anymore is worth the upgrade as it has A LOT to say.


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## zim (May 6, 2012)

Would love to see the handling reports all those pro photogs handed in when they were testing the 5D3 wonder if they were of the same opinion about these issues? what a lame interview.


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## briansquibb (May 6, 2012)

jalbfb said:


> I agree with the black AF point not lighting up red. CR provided us with a way of letting Canon know what our frustrations/concerns/recommendations are so I recommend we all flood them with these requests and put pressure on them to respond and if possible correct it in a firmware update.



Yeh - having a 5DIII as backup will get you lots of 'pro points' 8) 8) 8) 8)


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## jrista (May 7, 2012)

I'm curious how this would actually work. I use the 7D, which also uses the Transmissive LCD in the viewfinder (TVF, to shorten it). I use AI Servo pretty much exclusively with back-button focus for BIF, and even use it for focusing on stationary birds and slower moving wildlife. The focus system is continually adjusting focus for you, maintaining tracking, etc. Even between each frame it is adjusting AF for you. Outside of shooting a dark subject against a dark background (which definitely makes the AF points hard to see), I've never really had any problem actually keeping focus and tracking my subjects with the selected AF point(s).

I am kind of at a loss as to exactly how AI Servo focus confirmation would work. Would it only blink red and beep the first time it gets focus? What about when it gets slightly out of focus for a short moment and re-locks...which can happen fairly frequently with chaotic subjects and subject tracking...would it blink and beep every time it determines it has reacquired focus lock? What about between each frame...does it blink and beep there as well? When using AF point expansion and af shifts to a neighboring point for a moment...do you want/get a red bleep there? 

Personally, I'd prefer they find a way to make the AF points more visible at all times WITHOUT them blinking red all the time. A black AF point against a dark subject should maybe turn white...or become a white box with a small dark outline so it stands out...without blinking or turning red, which would be rather distracting and more intrusive to actually tracking your subject than an otherwise static AF point.


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## Jared (May 7, 2012)

Viggo said:


> 6. The abillity to use the multi controller to choose submenues and the small top wheel to scroll top menues (without
> going through every single submenu.



There is already the ability to skip over menu groups. To do this, press the [Q] button!


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## pwp (May 7, 2012)

jrista said:


> I am kind of at a loss as to exactly how AI Servo focus confirmation would work.



Do it just like the 1-Series bodies. You don't necessarily get confirmation, but you need to see where your AF points is, especially if you are tracking a moving subject, and keeping the AF point on the subject.



jrista said:


> Personally, I'd prefer they find a way to make the AF points more visible at all times WITHOUT them blinking red all the time. A black AF point against a dark subject should maybe turn white...or become a white box with a small dark outline so it stands out...without blinking or turning red, which would be rather distracting and more intrusive to actually tracking your subject than an otherwise static AF point.



Red has always worked fine and it's what we're used to. I can't think of a situation where the red AF point is not immediately apparent. On 1-Series bodies I choose to max the brightness of the AF display points. Maybe you'd like the simple option of dimming the points.

You know I'm wondering if the prolonged delay of the 1DX might have something to do with the black AF point issue. Sports shooters would be beta testing the 1DX and they would be blistering in their criticism of the black AF point issue.

Alternatively it may be a deliberate design decision to partially cripple the 5D3 to make the 1DX more attractive to action shooters.

Paul Wright


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## swampler (May 7, 2012)

Jared said:


> There is already the ability to skip over menu groups. To do this, press the [Q] button!


Thanks, I'll have to try that!


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## Janco (May 7, 2012)

What I found most interesting (not having the 5DIII yet) was his comment about the lack of sharpness in the images. Does it imply that 5DII and other cameras apply some kind of sharpening to the raw, what would result in a loss of detail and that stronger sharpening during or of course at the end of postprocessing instead would give better results?


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## Janco (May 7, 2012)

Janco said:


> What I found most interesting (not having the 5DIII yet) was his comment about the lack of sharpness in the images. Does it imply that 5DII and other cameras apply some kind of sharpening to the raw, what would result in a loss of detail and that stronger sharpening during or of course at the end of postprocessing instead would give better results?


Sorry, listening to it again I realised it was only about video. But still, doesn't it apply to stills too?


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## pedro (May 7, 2012)

*"Red has always worked fine and it's what we're used to. I can't think of a situation where the red AF point is not immediately apparent. On 1-Series bodies I choose to max the brightness of the AF display points. Maybe you'd like the simple option of dimming the points.

You know I'm wondering if the prolonged delay of the 1DX might have something to do with the black AF point issue. Sports shooters would be beta testing the 1DX and they would be blistering in their criticism of the black AF point issue.

Alternatively it may be a deliberate design decision to partially cripple the 5D3 to make the 1DX more attractive to action shooters.

Paul Wright"*

Waiting to upgrade from a 30D I would feel kinda strange if they'd "crippled" AF points for such a purpose on the 5D3. If they can do it in my 30D, why here ? Cheers, Pedro


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## Viggo (May 7, 2012)

Jared said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > 6. The abillity to use the multi controller to choose submenues and the small top wheel to scroll top menues (without
> ...



Oh my ! I'm giving you a standing ovation!! Thank YOU!! ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## pwp (May 7, 2012)

pedro said:


> Alternatively it may be a deliberate design decision to partially cripple the 5D3 to make the 1DX more attractive to action shooters.
> 
> Waiting to upgrade from a 30D I would feel kinda strange if they'd "crippled" AF points for such a purpose on the 5D3. If they can do it in my 30D, why here ? Cheers, Pedro



Pedro, as it turns out the 1DX will have precisely the same black focus point feature, identical in behavior to the 5D3. Grrr.

But in the far greater scheme of things I wouldn't let it stand in the way of upgrading from your 30D. The 5D3 does almost everything extremely well and delivers great files. The black AF point thing is just one of those bewildering design/functionality/UI bombs.

Paul Wright


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## Christian_Stella (May 7, 2012)

Jared said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > 6. The abillity to use the multi controller to choose submenues and the small top wheel to scroll top menues (without
> ...



I too was looking for a way to do this! What an unintuitive decision to use the Q button. With two scroll wheels, a multicontroller joystick, and a 4 way touch pad-- you press a button to skip forward in menus? Want to skip backward to the last set of menus? Simply hit the Q button 4 times! Skipping forward is better than nothing though and I am thankful for the tip. 

As far as firmware updates, I think they should really expand the rating thing. I actually like the rate button, but wish there was a way to sort photos by rating on the camera. Or a way to delete all unrated photos. Or a way to move all rated photos into a new folder.


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## facedodge (May 7, 2012)

I shot a low light event on Saturday. I don't think I mind the dark AF point. I think I'd prefer it over a bright red dot that covered my subject's face. 

I was using bounce flash and didn't want to take too many shots, so timing them was important. If I had a bright red dot covering my subject's face, it would have been a crap shoot trying to get a good expression out of them.

If they add this feature, it better be optional.


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## rumorzmonger (May 7, 2012)

facedodge said:


> If they add this feature, it better be optional.




I agree... 

The current setup is a huge improvement over the old cameras - I hated the AF sensor marks that obscured the subject.


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## Drizzt321 (May 7, 2012)

Viggo said:


> 2. The abillity to add "choose AF scenario" as an item on My Menu.
> 3. Of course the AF illumination issue.
> 4. Support for UHS SD cards.
> 5. Choose which drive modes available on selection.
> ...



Definitely need 1 & 3, 4 might be a hardware thing (very silly of Canon IMHO). The rest, yea, now that you mention them, they would be quite handy!


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## revup67 (May 7, 2012)

I wrote to Canon Tech Support as suggested in the original CR post and got this response from Rodney as of 5/5/2012:

"Thank you for contacting Canon product support. We value you as a Canon customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you. I am sorry that you are having difficulty locating information on what Canon is planning to do to address the dark AF Points in the Viewfinder display in the EOS 5D Mark III.
Unfortunately, Canon has not made any announcements or statements regarding whether a firmware upgrade is being developed to address the dark AF Points. If an announcement is made, it will be released on the Canon USA website at www.usa.canon.com."

So let's keep hammering them to get this taken care of but as an "option" aspreviously suggested. Two other points of interest is not being able to remap the zoom button as it is now on the left side of the camera vs. upper right. And also since it comes with this camera, a simple upgrade to DPP to add a "rename" feature to the right click (context) menu would be most helpful. Each time I wish to rename a unique photo I've got to jump out of DPP into Windows Explorer and perform this action. At least you can rename a folder and batch process a rename.


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## NaturaLight (Aug 7, 2012)

Ok, Canon. It's been three months and this still isn't fixed. Let's get a move on!


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## ageha (Aug 8, 2012)

NaturaLight said:


> Ok, Canon. It's been three months and this still isn't fixed. Let's get a move on!


Maybe the Mark IV is coming sooner than we think.


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## smithy (Aug 8, 2012)

Yeah maybe it's not a simple fix. In that case, while they're at it, can they add AF point-linked spot metering?


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## Drizzt321 (Aug 8, 2012)

smithy said:


> Yeah maybe it's not a simple fix. In that case, while they're at it, can they add AF point-linked spot metering?



I wish, but it's probably not coming for the 5d3 since it's one of the separators from the 1D line


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## Viggo (Aug 8, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> smithy said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah maybe it's not a simple fix. In that case, while they're at it, can they add AF point-linked spot metering?
> ...



I came to think of a thing I have never thought about, can you link the larger spot to AF point also? Or is just the smallest spot?

I have to say, the 5d3, although not linked completely, gives you WAY different exposure determined by where you focus. Try with a white wall and a lamp, and don't change composition, but only focus point with Average selected and you'll see it clearly.


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## Drizzt321 (Aug 8, 2012)

Viggo said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > smithy said:
> ...



Far as I know there is no linking between the AF points and the Auto Exposure functionality on the 5d3. 

Hmm...something to try. Average might make somewhat of a difference since it's still a frame average. Maybe it averages in what's in focus in the frame a bit more than the rest? I dunno.


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## Viggo (Aug 8, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Drizzt321 said:
> ...



Sorry about that, I meant the 1d X and only thought it and didn't write it. I meant if the larger spot can be linked to AF on the 1d x.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 8, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> Far as I know there is no linking between the AF points and the Auto Exposure functionality on the 5d3.



Actually, there sort of is, but only when using Evaluative Metering. In that case, the metering is 'weighted' toward the selected AF point(s). But Spot Metering can only be linked to AF point on 1-series bodies.

Viggo, if by 'the larger spot' you're asking about Partial Metering (which is 6.5% of the image area vs. 2.5% with Spot), the answer is no, partial is center only.


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## Drizzt321 (Aug 8, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > Far as I know there is no linking between the AF points and the Auto Exposure functionality on the 5d3.
> ...



Ah, ok. I just haven't read the manual closely enough on AE settings. Thanks Neuro, you always know the answer to everything camera related!


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## Viggo (Aug 8, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > Far as I know there is no linking between the AF points and the Auto Exposure functionality on the 5d3.
> ...


Thanks!! It's a shame, but the linked spot and ec in M mode i'll use for what's it's worth!


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## Minh Nguyen (Aug 9, 2012)

1.) I'm going to have to disagree regarding diminishing returns. All the talk about lenses and sensors not being able to produce good IQ at high pixel count has been going on since the launch of the 5DmII. My 5DmII was shipped to my house 1 week after the launch date. I immediately found all those fears to be false. What I'm trying to say is that all the "Know-it-alls" cast judgement about whats possible and not possible before even trying the camera based on theory.

2.) I hate being told that "I" don't need high pixel count because I won't ever print pass __ x __ size. I hate being told that what "we" need are more A, B, and C. Everyone is different. 

3.) As I wrote on another thread, I do fashion, landscape and product photography I can definitely use more megapixels. No. I don't need 80MP. When the count gets that high I would agree that the lenses we have right now and the sensor size we're using PROBABLY won't be able to manage an acceptable image. However, I think 40+ MP is still within range seeing that my gen-1 24-70 f/2.8 and 5DmII produce tack sharp product images. I'm not even using an L Prime and the images are already too sharp (well its never too sharp for product photography).

If possible I'd personally would like a 40+MP Canon DSLR with a better AF system than my 5DmII and 4FPS is fine for me. If they want to squeeze in more that's fine.


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## iso79 (Aug 9, 2012)

All you need is a tripod.


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## RLPhoto (Aug 9, 2012)

Haven't noticed it too much but I've been using the 7D alot before. :-X


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## Kevin Weinstein (Aug 10, 2012)

Spoke with the regional rep here in chicago the other day. Canon is quite aware of this issue, and this was not overlooked when building the camera. The 7D, 5DIII and 1Dx all have the black focus points when in AI SERVO. 

What's new? In previous camera models, the focus points were built into the focus screen, but now they use a HUD technology which (right now) does not allow for the red light to go away when the shutter is clicked, this affecting the exposure, etc.

She wrote this, "Yes, the focus point thing is something that we've heard a lot. I know that the engineers are taking it very seriously but I haven't heard whether or not they will (or can) make a change that would improve it. They've been very responsive and open to suggestions in the last couple of years so I know that they're listening and talking about it."

Let's all hope they do come to a solution, or it will be a LONG 2-4 years until the next camera, and a ton of missed shots, and a ton of screaming while shooting.

KW


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## Bosman (Aug 24, 2012)

I don't buy it. If i can push in the toggle to see where my point is then take a shot its pretty close to the same thing as it lighting up when achieving focus in my opinion. I know close in tech terms may be fields away but i still think it is silly engineers havent produced a fix or made it work from the get go for that matter.


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## mirekti (Nov 8, 2012)

smithy said:


> Yeah maybe it's not a simple fix. In that case, while they're at it, can they add AF point-linked spot metering?



So when I set my AF point to let's say one in the right upper corner I have to meassure the exposure first by using a centre of my camera, lock the exposure and than recompose and use AF spot I mentioned?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 8, 2012)

mirekti said:


> So when I set my AF point to let's say one in the right upper corner I have to meassure the exposure first by using a centre of my camera, lock the exposure and than recompose and use AF spot I mentioned?



If you want to use spot metering, yes. Evaluative metering will weight the reading toward the selected AF point, but that's not the same as spot metering. The 1-series bodies have spot metering linked to any AF point.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 8, 2012)

mirekti said:


> smithy said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah maybe it's not a simple fix. In that case, while they're at it, can they add AF point-linked spot metering?
> ...



correct (its like this on any camera that isnt a 1D)
this is one of the reasons i find it faster to shoot in manual all the time when using my 5D's


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## Bosman (Nov 9, 2012)

Manual is so much better than relying on the meter to decide shutter speed.


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