# Confirmed, a Canon EOS R5c is going to be announced this year [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 17, 2021)

> I reported last week that an EOS R cinema camera would be coming in the future. I have now confirmed this to be true, and we should expect an announcement in late 2021 with availability in early 2022.
> The camera, which we are calling the EOS R5c will be equipped with the same image sensor as the EOS R5 and will have all of the same recording options.
> The big news? It will be a slightly bigger body with active cooling and it will also remain a hybrid camera for stills shooting.
> The EOS R5c will also come with C-Log 2.
> More to come…



Continue reading...


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## chrisrmueller (Mar 17, 2021)

If true, this is pretty amazing. I wonder what the difference in price will be.


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## Andy Westwood (Mar 17, 2021)

Wow! That is great news for videographers and will surely sell better than the last “c” model given how much DSLR type bodied cameras have come on in the film world these days. 

Canon will continue to take back more lost ground from Sony.


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## John Wilde (Mar 17, 2021)

That makes sense. The DSLR-shaped C70 has a built-in fan.
​


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## BakaBokeh (Mar 17, 2021)

Nice. This is exactly what all the videographers were asking for. We are willing to sacrifice some weather resistance for active cooling.

CLOG 2 is great news for dynamic range fans as well.


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## Richard Anthony (Mar 17, 2021)

Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5



A bunch of video features are being added to the next firmware. Cooling.... we'll see if they can improve it some more.


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## wanderer23 (Mar 17, 2021)

Looking fwd if it really does have internal Nd


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## telemaque (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


Well I am afraid there is a limit what a software can achieve regarding heating.
If the "physical" design of the camera is creating "heat", a software may reduce slightly the speed of the phenoma but not stop it.

Sad for sure.


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## Richard Anthony (Mar 17, 2021)

telemaque said:


> Well I am afraid there is a limit what a software can achieve regarding heating.
> If the "physical" design of the camera is creating "heat", a software may reduce slightly the speed of the phenoma but not stop it.
> 
> Sad for sure.


It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


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## PureClassA (Mar 17, 2021)

FINALLY!!! That will be a REALLY exciting 4K camera. R5 in a C70 type body. Internal NDs I wonder? I'm assuming no pro level mic inputs and preamps sets like the cinema line but hey, that's just fine. I'd almost rather see them ditch the stills completely and go with a DV 7 chip


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## Stig Nygaard (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


Made a mistake? Totally disagree. Of course we haven't seen the new model yet, but I guess most people still will go for normal R5. A body with active cooling sounds like something you want only if you plan to do a lot of video with it.


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## peters (Mar 17, 2021)

Great! A year earlier would be awesome, but okay :-D


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## amorse (Mar 17, 2021)

Stig Nygaard said:


> Made a mistake? Totally disagree. Of course we haven't seen the new model yet, but I guess most people still will go for normal R5. A body with active cooling sounds like something you want only if you plan to do a lot of video with it.


Absolutely agreed. Active cooling is a hard pass for me for me if it means reduced weather sealing. This is positive though - Canon obviously sees that there is a market here which isn't perfectly aligned to the needs of traditional 5D users, which the R5 was aimed at. Having an R5c and an R5 allow flexibility for potential buyers to balance their needs without compromising their use case.


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## Jonathan Thill (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


I will take my weathered sealed R5 over a Camera that has longer record times and is not weather sealed all day and everyday. (No idea what the R5C will have but it is safe bet that active cooling = fan = less weather sealed.)

Right tool for the job, if the new Camera better suit for your needs buy that and be happy but I think calling one of the best selling Cameras on the market a mistake is just trolling.

BTW, I have not had a single overheating issue with my R5 or my R6 because I know what it is capable of and work with what I have.


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## Gazwas (Mar 17, 2021)

Don't understand the bit about it still being a Hybrid as it would make the R5 almost redundant?

In the UK the R5 is £4200 and the C70 is £4800 so cost wise the R5c has to come in between and will hurt sales of both.

R5c = full frame, 8K, down sampled 4K HQ
C70 = DGO, codecs, XLR audio features, ND's, DR.

Will be a tough call between those two


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## Kjsheldo (Mar 17, 2021)

I hope they don't just pull an FX3 and make the exact same camera but sliiiiightly different. For an R5c to have a place, it has to have some big video advancements. Something like S1 sized, no record limits, with internal NDs and a mini XLR or two (or at least an XLR adapter), and timecode would be AMAZING. The C70 is close, but it's still a chunky beast and non full-frame. 

If I had to pick two features, it would be some sort of XLR module or mini XLRs on body and a timecode port (like the S1H).


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## Ozarker (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


Nah. Just making a video centric camera for people more into video than stills. The R5 is more stills oriented. People should, and most will, choose the right tool for the job. Anyone who did not think shooting a weather sealed camera in FF 4K for extended periods of time wouldn’t have heat issues just wasn’t thinking the purchase through. It’s like ordering a hamburger and then complaining there’s no cheese. This is particularly true because Canon outlined the limitations before release.


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## jdavidse (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


You want a weather sealed rain proof camera? R5. You want a video rig with a vent on the side that lets in anything? That’s what the R5c is for


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## padam (Mar 17, 2021)

All makes sense now. The R5 was built to a price that is a lot less than a Sony A1 (or the upcoming Nikon Z9).

This new variant will cost way more though, the previous rumour suggested ND filters, that probably sounds too good to be true, to keep it working as a "full-on" hybrid camera it will have the mechanical shutter and IBIS retained (just like the Sony FX3).

I wonder if they are going to "unlock" the 5.1k60P internal RAW recording in the 1.6x crop mode as well or keep it at 8K only, as it is just an artificial limitation on the R5, the 1DX III can handle it with the same processor and memory card interface. Although AF is disabled on the 1DX III in 5.5k60p or 4k60p FF mode, while DPAF is fully operational on the R6 in the almost FF 4k60p mode, maybe even Canon is getting confused about which camera can do this and that


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## usern4cr (Mar 17, 2021)

It's great Canon is offering a R5 with possibly only active cooling added. Let people buy it if they're really into the highest quality video they can possibly afford while still having a wonderful stills camera to boot. I do hope that this special video version will drop the 30 minute limit so that everyone can stop complaining about it.

Those who don't need to push the video limits (like me) will be quite happy with what they have and would not need to pay extra (I assume) for the active cooling version, which I assume will be bigger, heavier, with less weather resistance, and less battery life.


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## VivaLasVegas (Mar 17, 2021)

What about an R6c....Canon, it over heated too. I honestly doubt it though. Between the A1, A7S3 and the R5, the R5 is noticeably sharper than both Sony in 8K(vs A1) and 4K(vs A7S3). All they need to do, is remove the 30 mins limit and add ProRes. It will be the GOAT of hybrid cameras.


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## Rendil (Mar 17, 2021)

Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.


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## dtaylor (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


Canon's only mistake with the R5/R6 introduction was the crummy firmware that used a simple countdown timer to manage heating. I was pretty harsh on them in these forums for doing so because this seemed to wreck otherwise amazing video features, and at a time when many of us were sick of waiting for Canon to finally compete on 4k video.

While I hope future firmware updates improve the situation even further, they've gone a long ways towards fixing this, making the R5 and R6 usable for actual production video and competitive with their rivals. There's only so much you can expect from a *sealed* camera body, which is why Canon is apparently going to introduce an actively cooled one. For hybrid shooters who need weather resistance, active cooling would be a mistake. For cinematographers who need long record times throughout the day, sealing would be a mistake. Having two models makes sense in this case.

I hope the active cooling or some other change enables the R5c to shoot oversampled 4k60 like the R6. The R6 produces some of the best 4k footage possible right now, better than Sony and on par with the XT3/XT4, except full frame with DPAF. The R5 matches it in 4k30 HQ mode, but not in 4k60.


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## vladk (Mar 17, 2021)

Well, if it is identical to R5 spec wise, but drops the 30 min limit and avoids overheating, I am in, even without built-in ND. It will replace both R5 and SONY 4K 1" camcorder I carry now. But we all know Canon, right? It will be most likely not as good for stills as R5 is, if previous history teaches us anything.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 17, 2021)

chrisrmueller said:


> If true, this is pretty amazing. I wonder what the difference in price will be.


Well the C70 is $5,499, so a FF 8k version is going to be $8,000.


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## dtaylor (Mar 17, 2021)

padam said:


> I wonder if they are going to "unlock" the 5.1k60P internal RAW recording in the 1.6x crop mode as well or keep it at 8K only, as it is just an artificial limitation on the R5, the 1DX III can handle it with the same processor and memory card interface. Although AF is disabled on the 1DX III in 5.5k60p or 4k60p FF mode, while DPAF is fully operational on the R6 in the almost FF 4k60p mode, maybe even Canon is getting confused about which camera can do this and that


Video is frustrating right now because every camera has some advantage and some drawback. And not just in Canon land. A lot of people must be looking at this landscape thinking _Why can't I get a single camera with all of these features?_

IMHO the R6 looks very good as a hybrid/cinema camera right now, for people who don't need some of the upper tier features on dedicated cinema cameras. Thermal limits, while still a bit worse than some competitors, are manageable, and the 4k output is gorgeous. Still there are some perplexing limits like no DCI, no improved C-Log 2/3, and no 5.5k RAW.

Curious to see what else Canon throws in an R5c, besides a fan, vs the R5/R6.


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## vladk (Mar 17, 2021)

For those who worry about weather resistance of actively cooled body: EL-1 has active cooling and is sealed with 1D level of weather resistance.
I'd be more curious about ergonomics, especially about shapes chosen for a weather sealed actively cooled camera, because intake and exhaust should not interfer with hand grip, with user face when using viewfinder, and with tripod plate.


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## dtaylor (Mar 17, 2021)

vladk said:


> Well, if it is identical to R5 spec wise, but drops the 30 min limit and avoids overheating, I am in, even without built-in ND. It will replace both R5 and SONY 4K 1" camcorder I carry now. But we all know Canon, right? It will be most likely not as good for stills as R5 is, if previous history teaches us anything.


If they use the same 45mp sensor I don't see how it could be worse for stills, other than the compromised weather sealing for active cooling of course.


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## SteveC (Mar 17, 2021)

Rendil said:


> Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.



Many of "us" don't feel slapped in the slightest.


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## Nyarlathotep (Mar 17, 2021)

In before "YEAH, BUT IT SUCKS CUZ NO WEATHER SEAL LOL!"


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## padam (Mar 17, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> Video is frustrating right now because every camera has some advantage and some drawback. And not just in Canon land. A lot of people must be looking at this landscape thinking _Why can't I get a single camera with all of these features?_
> 
> IMHO the R6 looks very good as a hybrid/cinema camera right now, for people who don't need some of the upper tier features on dedicated cinema cameras. Thermal limits, while still a bit worse than some competitors, are manageable, and the 4k output is gorgeous. Still there are some perplexing limits like no DCI, no improved C-Log 2/3, and no 5.5k RAW.
> 
> Curious to see what else Canon throws in an R5c, besides a fan, vs the R5/R6.


Looks like this R5C will be that camera, the question is how much. They can't use 1DC pricing anymore but I expect a way bigger price gap compared to the A7SIII and FX3 where they changed the housing but didn't add any extra features.

For me the R6 / 1DX III share a common flaw: rolling shutter is very high in FF 4k30p mode (even worse than the EOS R cropped 4k, which was already bad), it is only good in 4k60p or crop mode.


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## Inspired (Mar 17, 2021)

If it carries all the still features along with weather sealing and 4k HQ it will make the perfect hybrid camera for wedding photographers.


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## landon (Mar 17, 2021)

R5 autofocus please.
Will it be BPA battery, or dual lp6n battery?


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## DBounce (Mar 17, 2021)

Kjsheldo said:


> I hope they don't just pull an FX3 and make the exact same camera but sliiiiightly different. For an R5c to have a place, it has to have some big video advancements. Something like S1 sized, no record limits, with internal NDs and a mini XLR or two (or at least an XLR adapter), and timecode would be AMAZING. The C70 is close, but it's still a chunky beast and non full-frame.
> 
> If I had to pick two features, it would be some sort of XLR module or mini XLRs on body and a timecode port (like the S1H).


I’m thinking this will be Canon’s answer to the FX3. But I agree that they need to include NDs, Timecode and anamorphic modes. There should also be an option for professional sound inputs. A tilt/flip screen would be awesome, along with an EXF that can flip/rotate. 
Lastly, build it well. No more plastic fantastic please.


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## landon (Mar 17, 2021)

DBounce said:


> I’m thinking this will be Canon’s answer to the FX3. But I agree that they need to include NDs, Timecode and anamorphic modes. There should also be an option for professional sound inputs. A tilt/flip screen would be awesome, along with an EXF that can flip/rotate.
> Lastly, build it well. No more plastic fantastic please.


I think this is Canon's answer to 6kPro.


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## peters (Mar 17, 2021)

vladk said:


> For those who worry about weather resistance of actively cooled body: EL-1 has active cooling and is sealed with 1D level of weather resistance.
> I'd be more curious about ergonomics, especially about shapes chosen for a weather sealed actively cooled camera, because intake and exhaust should not interfer with hand grip, with user face when using viewfinder, and with tripod plate.


I hope for a formfactor like the S1H. Its a perfect body, (and otherwise incredible great camera.). Only reason I ditched it was the not usable AF.


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## DBounce (Mar 17, 2021)

Rendil said:


> Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.


I bought the R5... And returned it. Then bought the Sony A7S3. Had Canon not experienced overheating issues on the R5, I would have saved a pretty penny. I still love Canon but currently they do not make a buddy that I want. Which is a shame since I have a nice collection of EF and RF glass. Perhaps this R5C will be the ticket?


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## h2so4 (Mar 17, 2021)

I think this is great news. I use the R5 for stills and have never shot a second of video on it. But for those who want to shoot a ton of video I think this will be a great option for them. I think everyone wins when you have options to select the camera that fits your work flow.


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## dtaylor (Mar 17, 2021)

padam said:


> For me the R6 / 1DX III share a common flaw: rolling shutter is very high in FF 4k30p mode (even worse than the EOS R cropped 4k, which was already bad), it is only good in 4k60p or crop mode.


This should be a firmware fix. It has decent rolling shutter in 4k60, probably because it drops to 12-bit readout. Since 12-bit readout is still larger than C-Log, they should do the same for 4k30p.

Little details like that and like no DCI, which would literally be a firmware update, do not make sense to me.


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## NorskHest (Mar 17, 2021)

If there is no record limit this will be one of the gnarliest cameras ever made and will literally be the perfect camera. Hell I’ll probably buy 2


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## croviking (Mar 17, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


That's good news for future R5 owners who will buy 2nd hand units from the current R5 owners who go R5c

I favor weather sealing over long 8k record time.


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## miketcool (Mar 17, 2021)

I’m extremely happy for what I paid and what features I got with the R5. I don’t need the extra weight, features that drain my battery, or outputs for filming. Quit reading spec sheets and spend more time shooting!


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## calfoto (Mar 17, 2021)

As for weather sealing, I for one do about .01% (or less) of my shooting in rain/dust storms and the like so weather sealing has really never been a problem - and there are disposable sleeves which would provide adequate protection for the time I’m might need to shoot in unfavorable conditions.

I’m also primarily a stills shooter so a 30 minute limit isn’t something that’s ever been a problem. 

That being said, and correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the R5 simply create a new file at the 30 minute mark and continue recording? If so what problems are encountered in Post trying to join them? Are there glitches, dropped frames, whatever?
If not what’s the big deal for continuous recording if not just for convenience sake?


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## mpmark (Mar 17, 2021)

Well u


BakaBokeh said:


> Nice. This is exactly what all the videographers were asking for. We are willing to sacrifice some weather resistance for active cooling.
> 
> CLOG 2 is great news for dynamic range fans as well.



well us photographers weren’t, I’m happy with my compact weather sealed R5 body. It IS a camera first after all.

I am puzzled why videographers don’t buy a video camera. There is plenty on the market.


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## AccipiterQ (Mar 18, 2021)

Why though? You can just go with Canon's cinema series if you want that.


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## Jonathan Thill (Mar 18, 2021)

calfoto said:


> As for weather sealing, I for one do about .01% (or less) of my shooting in rain/dust storms and the like so weather sealing has really never been a problem - and there are disposable sleeves which would provide adequate protection for the time I’m might need to shoot in unfavorable conditions.
> 
> I’m also primarily a stills shooter so a 30 minute limit isn’t something that’s ever been a problem.
> 
> ...


No you have to hit the record button again. At 29:59 the Camera will stop recording internally and must be restarted.

Issue for some and not for others.


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

mpmark said:


> Well u
> 
> 
> well us photographers weren’t, I’m happy with my compact weather sealed R5 body. It IS a camera first after all.
> ...


Because we are hybrid shooters and not just videographers.


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## chasingrealness (Mar 18, 2021)

This makes me really happy that I didn’t break down and buy the R5 this week. Too much excitement on the horizon to commit to anything yet (at least on my budget haha)!


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## mpmark (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> Because we are hybrid shooters and not just videographers.


So don’t complain the hybrid video system doesn’t do what a didicated video camera does.


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

mpmark said:


> So don’t complain the hybrid video system doesn’t do what a didicated video camera does.


I didn’t know that I complained!


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## Jonathan Thill (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> I didn’t know that I complained!


As far as I can tell you did not @Atlasman


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## Ozarker (Mar 18, 2021)

Rendil said:


> Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.


I think people ought to be blaming themselves, for backhanding themselves. I have no idea how this can be a slap from Canon. The time limitations were publicized before the release of the R5 by Canon. People who just spent all that money without reading what they were buying? More money than sense.


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

The R5 is a fantastic camera for those who recognize its limitations—and those are minimal. That the “R5C” will bring active cooling and still retain all of the hybrid attributes is excellent news!


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


No way to sort heating issues out. It does what it is advertised to do with the limitations of being without a fan.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Mar 18, 2021)

“Everyone in the world must think, shoot, and have needs identical to my own, so I’m going to complain that this camera is pointless or that it was insulting not to have from the start “ - this forum.

Personally, I’d love to see an R5c. I’d also like to see a C70 with a viewfinder and the snappy responsiveness of R cameras (AF especially). An R5c with internal NDs sounds almost too good, but maybe BlackMagic has disrupted enough for that to be on the table.


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> “Everyone in the world must think, shoot, and have needs identical to my own, so I’m going to complain that this camera is pointless or that it was insulting not to have from the start “ - this forum.
> 
> Personally, I’d love to see an R5c. I’d also like to see a C70 with a viewfinder and the snappy responsiveness of R cameras (AF especially). An R5c with internal NDs sounds almost too good, but maybe BlackMagic has disrupted enough for that to be on the table.


The nd filters are too good to be true—and don’t forget: Blackmagic’s poor AF. But I’d like to see a removable viewfinder.


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## Bert63 (Mar 18, 2021)

Sony is dooooomed..

Canon - a chicken in every pot.


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## usern4cr (Mar 18, 2021)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> “Everyone in the world must think, shoot, and have needs identical to my own, so I’m going to complain that this camera is pointless or that it was insulting not to have from the start “ - this forum.
> 
> Personally, I’d love to see an R5c. I’d also like to see a C70 with a viewfinder and the snappy responsiveness of R cameras (AF especially). An R5c with internal NDs sounds almost too good, but maybe BlackMagic has disrupted enough for that to be on the table.


They didn't mention a ND in the post. I'm guessing we won't see that in a R body until they have a global shutter which has no mechanical shutter which frees up room for a ND. But if they surprise us and include a ND then it would be major benefit for stills users as well as video ones and with that and active cooling it would be a considerable step up from the R5, except for the bigger size, weight, cost (I assume), shorter battery life, and lesser weather sealing(I assume).


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## GoldWing (Mar 18, 2021)

zzzzzzzzzzzz


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## David - Sydney (Mar 18, 2021)

Rendil said:


> Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.


I love my R5! The video features were the best in one package until the A7Siii (with its stills limitations) and now A1 at a significant premium. 
Use the right tool for your workflow. I'm sure that there are plenty of people willing to take your R5 off your hands


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> The R5 is a fantastic camera for those who recognize its limitations—and those are minimal. That the “R5C” will bring active cooling and still retain all of the hybrid attributes is excellent news!


The R5 is definitely capable of more than it initially gave. Overheating is really overblown.

The features included in sub 1k-2k cameras from Sony/Panasonic/Nikon/bm ,Canon is missing from the 4K-6k options. It really a miscalculation from the Canon group. They have already noted they don’t think their R5 buyers are video shooters. They are slowly adding them....but the real issue is the price of entry for a 10 bit “cinema” camera from canon is the size and cost of a C70 and if you want to take pictures you need to buy another Camera.

Most Photographers discount they benefit from hybrid video shooters buying the same cameras. It makes production of lenses and sensors more cost effective.

The R5 is selling well, I just think it’s Canon shooters upgrading and not other brands switching. I love my Canons, I just think you have to love Canon to shoot the expensive cameras. If I were Canon, It would really burn me up if I let Black Magic use my lenses(most buy used) and Mount to take my customers.


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## David - Sydney (Mar 18, 2021)

chasingrealness said:


> This makes me really happy that I didn’t break down and buy the R5 this week. Too much excitement on the horizon to commit to anything yet (at least on my budget haha)!


I would expect a R5c to command a significant premium over the R5


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .



Marketing mistakes aside, the EOS R5 is a stills first camera. There are still more stills buyers than hybrid buyers. The #1 target market for the R5 was 5D shooters.

A larger body and active cooling will add at least $1000 to the price. An R5 launching at $4899 would have caused a revolt. Stills shooters don't need to be paying for a fan, they're already annoyed with the assumption that they're paying for excessive video features.

An R5c would have been in the pipeline long before the release of the R5.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 18, 2021)

Gazwas said:


> Don't understand the bit about it still being a Hybrid as it would make the R5 almost redundant?
> 
> In the UK the R5 is £4200 and the C70 is £4800 so cost wise the R5c has to come in between and will hurt sales of both.
> 
> ...


Why, the C70 is an s35 camera that shoots 4K, a FF camera that shoots 8k is going to cost more.


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## goldenhusky (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> I didn’t know that I complained!


Don;t argue with clown fan boys. It isn't worth one bit of your time. Had Canon were generous with these features these very same clowns will come out and brag about all of those. These are the same crowd that said there is no need for mirroless cameras because DSLR was superior. If not for Sony Canon and Nikon will be still stuck with 10 fps for stills and 1080p video even in 2021.


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## goldenhusky (Mar 18, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Marketing mistakes aside, the EOS R5 is a stills first camera. There are still more stills buyers than hybrid buyers. The #1 target market for the R5 was 5D shooters.
> 
> A larger body and active cooling will add at least $1000 to the price. An R5 launching at $4899 would have caused a revolt. Stills shooters don't need to be paying for a fan, they're already annoyed with the assumption that they're paying for excessive video features.
> 
> An R5c would have been in the pipeline long before the release of the R5.



To be fair, canon did not even do a decent job with the heat sink. I am sure you would have watched the video of someone opening up an R5 and added water cooling if not I sugest you to take a look at that. I am not saying Canon should do water cooling but at least they could have added a better heat sink and a better heat transfer mechanism. Having said that what I doubt now is, it was not a mistake or ignorance on Canon' part but it was a deliberate business decision coz now they can sell two bodies with the same guts but with an active cooling


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## goldenhusky (Mar 18, 2021)

People who are expecting Canon is going to add more features to R5C are setting themselves up for huge disappointment. Knowing Canon they will repeat the same thing what Sony did with FX3 and demand more for the camera. They may remove the 30min recording limit and may add a full size HDMI port (I still feel chances or less for this). Other than that knowing Canon' history I would bet Canon will not add anything else.

So here is my expectation for R5C

No recording limit
Can record 8k30 and 4k30 HQ pretty much until memory card fills up or battery runs out
Price close to $5k US

50-50 chances
Full size HDMI

Less probable feature
4K60p HQ

If Canon were to add any more feature the price will be closer to $8k US

Hopefully the R5 will come down in price.


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 18, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Marketing mistakes aside, the EOS R5 is a stills first camera. There are still more stills buyers than hybrid buyers. The #1 target market for the R5 was 5D shooters.
> 
> A larger body and active cooling will add at least $1000 to the price. An R5 launching at $4899 would have caused a revolt. Stills shooters don't need to be paying for a fan, they're already annoyed with the assumption that they're paying for excessive video features.
> 
> An R5c would have been in the pipeline long before the release of the R5.



Thats probably is the biggest miss, “stills first”. Given the time needed for R&D they could not have expected a Pandemic to push everyone to staying home, but Video/podcast/streaming content creation is king right now. If you are a working or aspiring Photographer you probably should be at least working on video or at least be looking to get the most out of anything you spend 4-5k on unless you just have luxury money.

M50 is the best camera for the money(bm4k honorable mention) out but from the M50 to the C70/R5 the video value gap is wide. The justification of buying and hauling a dedicated cinema camera for non professionals is just not there if the still camera is going to be $4-5k

The R5/R6 are perfect for Canon shooters who love Canon but as someone who gets to use most cameras the value is just not there from the outside looking in. Yes I will be buying the R5c , but just because I can , not because it is smart. lol

The R5 is honestly the best hybrid out, Canon made it just unreliable/expensive enough to where you can’t say it is your main video camera. That feels like the miss.

Side note: Does anyone else like the R6 grip more than the R5? I actually enjoy holding it more.


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## Bdbtoys (Mar 18, 2021)

I believe the R5 & R5C can coexist as they are targeting 2 different users. You either need the recording time of the C or you don't... and if you don't, there really isn't a need to get the bigger, and most likely, more expensive camera.

Now the interesting thing is what excuse will the fly by night youtube 'reviewers' give that 'they are returning the camera because...' that's not a smoke screen for returning before the CC bill is due or before return policy expires that they never intended to keep (if they really had it at all). The R5's limited recording time was quite a convenient excuse for them, while being click-bait at the same time (the limits were not a secret before release, but the initial cool down times were not really apparent... however most of the info on both was widely available right after release so it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone picking up the camera late). Don't get me wrong... I think most reviewers were genuine in the beginning regardless of the review they gave (good or bad) especially during the fact-finding stage, but towards the end it kind of felt like people were just farming views.

Also w/ active cooling, it can be done in a way that doesn't expose the elements to the internal workings of the camera... or even the fan/peltier electronics for that matter.


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## David - Sydney (Mar 18, 2021)

goldenhusky said:


> To be fair, canon did not even do a decent job with the heat sink. I am sure you would have watched the video of someone opening up an R5 and added water cooling if not I sugest you to take a look at that. I am not saying Canon should do water cooling but at least they could have added a better heat sink and a better heat transfer mechanism. Having said that what I doubt now is, it was not a mistake or ignorance on Canon' part but it was a deliberate business decision coz now they can sell two bodies with the same guts but with an active cooling


Watched the video a while ago and it was very interesting! What was clear is that Canon couldn't have moved the heat to the rear body (behind the screen) as it would have low temperature burn points on the rear body. It could have been damaging for the screen if turned in as well. The specific use case of tripod mount with screen out and no touching the external body is perfect but Canon could not have got the body through testing otherwise. 
My thought was to have a heat pipe to the tripod mount where a specific grip with active cooling and another battery would have been perfect. Charge USD1k and you get the best of both worlds at an appropriate price point for each.
Sony has done an amazing job with the A1 for thermal control but their record rates are very low compared to the R5. No CFe type B card which is a heat generator either.


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## snappy604 (Mar 18, 2021)

Rendil said:


> Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.


for some maybe, I have an R5 and think it's cool the video focused version is coming ,but don't regret the purchase. Its a very good camera for my needs.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

Future active cooling should encorporate a removeable fan cover seal same as all the other access covers. Ability to turn off fan when cover seal is in place. Voila.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Watched the video a while ago and it was very interesting! What was clear is that Canon couldn't have moved the heat to the rear body (behind the screen) as it would have low temperature burn points on the rear body. It could have been damaging for the screen if turned in as well. The specific use case of tripod mount with screen out and no touching the external body is perfect but Canon could not have got the body through testing otherwise.
> My thought was to have a heat pipe to the tripod mount where a specific grip with active cooling and another battery would have been perfect. Charge USD1k and you get the best of both worlds at an appropriate price point for each.
> Sony has done an amazing job with the A1 for thermal control but their record rates are very low compared to the R5. No CFe type B card which is a heat generator either.


Sony hasnt done jack but limit recording options and enable Auto Temp Off = High allowing the user to record in overtemp mode. As evident by its FX3 release. Which pretty much tells you that passive cooling options have played out. Any other hardware advances are null without active cooling. Even the thinest tablets and Surface pro units have fans. The heat has to go somewhere. Period.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Sony hasnt done jack but limit recording options and enable Auto Temp Off = High allowing the user to record in overtemp mode. As evident by its FX3 release. Which pretty much tells you that passive cooling options have played out. Any other hardware advances are null without active cooling. Even the thinest tablets and Surface pro units have fans. The heat has to go somewhere. Period. Board damage when user has Auto Temp Off = High recorded to CMOS isnt covered under waranty as noted on Sony website states that user should NOT record continuously in this mode for extended periods. The FX3 with active cooling thus released to prime Sony users of any future advancements in video hybrid cameras should expect a fan.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


Its called physics. What thin high performance laptop or tablet exist without a fan? None. The heat is sorted out. Canon forced everyones hand with the R5 by showing the limitations of a passive cooling device.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


The R5's "heat issues" is just limitation by real world physics, no firmware update will be able to "fix" this. It is clear that a non-actively cooled sensor with IBIS, i.e. weak heat transportation links that people like in this forum demanded for, will not allow for unlimited 8K videos. Bit streams are electric current, and high bit rates produce severe losses by electrical resistance. Silicon technology generally suffers from such losses. That's why the fastest conventional computer processors are stuck in the 4 GHz range since many years - higher frequencies would melt them. The only proper solution to this "problem" is active cooling of the sensor, i.e. a new camera. The R5 never was designed as an unlimited video tool.


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## Kanon (Mar 18, 2021)

chrisrmueller said:


> If true, this is pretty amazing. I wonder what the difference in price will be.


He he you already know this answer in your gut.


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## Kanon (Mar 18, 2021)

With build in ND please! and I’m soo wet right now


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## jWeu (Mar 18, 2021)

Most of my lenses are ready for 30 MP compatible with the Canon 5DmkIV . 45MP seems to be too much and my lenses may look soft and 20MP are less I need. I'm waiting for a 30MP EOS-Rxxxx. Even AF has problems with too be sharp enough with too many MP. Does the cam has Dual AF with AF-lens and AF-Body?


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## Bonich (Mar 18, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> Nice. This is exactly what all the videographers were asking for. We are willing to sacrifice some weather resistance for active cooling.
> 
> CLOG 2 is great news for dynamic range fans as well.


Some weather will upgrade to water cooling....


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Marketing mistakes aside, the EOS R5 is a stills first camera. There are still more stills buyers than hybrid buyers. The #1 target market for the R5 was 5D shooters.
> 
> A larger body and active cooling will add at least $1000 to the price. An R5 launching at $4899 would have caused a revolt. Stills shooters don't need to be paying for a fan, they're already annoyed with the assumption that they're paying for excessive video features.
> 
> An R5c would have been in the pipeline long before the release of the R5.


I don’t know that the R5c would have been in the pipeline before the release of the R5. I think that it is more of a reaction to the market. Had it been in the pipeline, release date would be much sooner.


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## Antono Refa (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


I said from day one Canon is just testing the 8K abilities in a stills camera prior to releasing it in a cine camera. Seems it works so good, all Canon needs to do to turn it into a cine camera is some finishing touches to the firmware, and repackage the internals in a cine camera body.


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## Gazwas (Mar 18, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why, the C70 is an s35 camera that shoots 4K, a FF camera that shoots 8k is going to cost more.


Because the only real reason to buy a more expensive R5c would be for 8K. For everything else video you'd be so much more better suited to a C70.

Considering very few people shoot 8K why pay more for an inferior video camera?


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## padam (Mar 18, 2021)

Gazwas said:


> Because the only real reason to buy a more expensive R5c would be for 8K. For everything else video you'd be so much more better suited to a C70.
> 
> Considering very few people shoot 8K why pay more for an inferior video camera?


Not really: no EVF, no IBIS, no FF, inferior low light (or with the 0.71x adapter only EF lenses will fit with some restrictions), older AF system, no usable crop mode up to 4k60p and of course no stills capability, not a 2-in-1 package.
This can be seen like as a 1DX III as a photo/video camera, except it is mirrorless now with a lot of things improved, like:
newer RF-mount, flip screen, EVF, IBIS, rolling shutter, dynamic range, etc.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the same 6500$ price tag as well, and it would still be more attractive than a 1DX III for a lot of people - or even the C70 for that matter.


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## landon (Mar 18, 2021)

One major reason I'm not buying the C70, form factor. I'm not sure how you can run/gun with it. It's good for a two person interview scenario, where it's on a tripod. 
I'm hoping R5c/C60 to have C70 inputs, (one mini XLR, BPA battery)
Specs isn't everything. BM users are very happy with the 6kPro hardware improvements.


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## masterpix (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


So the price of the "regular" R5 will drop dramatically in favor of still photographers? That is great news for future R5 owners!


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## sanj (Mar 18, 2021)

This is what the R5 should have been to start with.


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## Stig Nygaard (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> I don’t know that the R5c would have been in the pipeline before the release of the R5. I think that it is more of a reaction to the market. Had it been in the pipeline, release date would be much sooner.


I think I have read somewhere that making a new camera-model is a 18-24 months process. Of course it is a bit blurry when exact the process for a specific model starts, but considering additinal delays by COVID, I cannot image this being a "reaction to market" reaction after the R5 release.

"Fun fact": Around New Year 2019 Imaging Resource had a talk with Canon were they told they had "an 8K video capable camera is already in our EOS R-series roadmap". That must have been the R5, which, as far as I remember, started shipping in late(?) summer 2020.


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

Stig Nygaard said:


> I think I have read somewhere that making a new camera-model is a 18-24 months process. Of course it is a bit blurry when exact the process for a specific model starts, but considering additinal delays by COVID, I cannot image this being a "reaction to market" reaction after the R5 release.
> 
> "Fun fact": Around New Year 2019 Imaging Resource had a talk with Canon were they told they had "an 8K video capable camera is already in our EOS R-series roadmap". That must have been the R5, which, as far as I remember, started shipping in late(?) summer 2020.


The reaction to the market that I refer to is Sony's FX3. They took an existing camera design and repackaged it with active cooling. To me, it seems that the R5C will be a repackage of the R5.


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## bandido (Mar 18, 2021)

Please Canon, include a full size HDMI port this time.


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## usern4cr (Mar 18, 2021)

sanj said:


> This is what the R5 should have been to start with.


Sorry, but I disagree. I don't want a camera that's bigger, heavier, more expensive, and (possibly) less weatherproof. It's great that the R5c is coming out so that you can be happy with it, and I can be happy without it.


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## John Wilde (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


I don't think so. The R5 will be for people who primarily do stills. The R5c will be for people who primarily do video. As the C70 demonstrates, adding a fan makes a camera fatter. Many still photographers wouldn't like that. The C70 also has a bunch of additional buttons on the side.


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## MiJax (Mar 18, 2021)

I think its really clear now why Canon choose to not even try to mitigate heat on the R5. I originally thought it was to protect sales of the pending R1, but if they had started developing a cine-version of the R5, that effectively is the same thing. All things said, the R5 is still an excellent camera, however, other makers will not go this route. Sony and Nikon will catch up and make their variants capable out of the gate, leaving the R5c to die after the single generation like the 1Dx cine-version. Yes, I know Sony does have cine versions of the A7S, but when they make a R5 competitor, it will not be handicapped to protect another in its line.


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## GoldWing (Mar 18, 2021)

PureClassA said:


> FINALLY!!! That will be a REALLY exciting 4K camera. R5 in a C70 type body. Internal NDs I wonder? I'm assuming no pro level mic inputs and preamps sets like the cinema line but hey, that's just fine. I'd almost rather see them ditch the stills completely and go with a DV 7 chip


Ditch the stills, I agree and perhaps on newer models they will ditch the video. Benefits to both sides of the industry


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


Actually it forced the hand of all mirrorless camera manufacturers that were tinkering around the edges and selling mere firmware tweeks for thousands. The mirrorless hybrid has plateaud with the inclusion of 8k and all of the 4k All-I modes that the R5 offered. Nothing more without active cooling. As noted by Sony's limited video recording for the A1 and A7S3 and consequently their release of the FX3. Both being the result of the Canon R5.


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## lethiferous (Mar 18, 2021)

No firmware is going to fix what was simply just a stupid lack of a proper cooper plate. I already measured it out and have one cnced. Moment my warranty is up I am slapping it in. If you do video at 4k hq the camera overheats very quickly. Luckily on social media with reg 4k and 75% sharpness added in premier and 4k crop mode, it still looks very good.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

Ramage said:


> I will take my weathered sealed R5 over a Camera that has longer record times and is not weather sealed all day and everyday. (No idea what the R5C will have but it is safe bet that active cooling = fan = less weather sealed.)
> 
> Right tool for the job, if the new Camera better suit for your needs buy that and be happy but I think calling one of the best selling Cameras on the market a mistake is just trolling.
> 
> BTW, I have not had a single overheating issue with my R5 or my R6 because I know what it is capable of and work with what I have.


Good. Not every Cinema camera is for everyone. Nor is every still camera for everyone. Some people shoot film, medium and large format.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

lethiferous said:


> No firmware is going to fix what was simply just a stupid lack of a proper cooper plate. I already measured it out and have one cnced. Moment my warranty is up I am slapping it in. If you do video at 4k hq the camera overheats very quickly. Luckily on social media with reg 4k and 75% sharpness added in premier and 4k crop mode, it still looks very good.


Wrong. No copper plate will answer cooling. Period. Just a temporary fix at best. Replace your PC fan with simply a copper heat sink and see how long that will last you.


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## David Hull (Mar 18, 2021)

chrisrmueller said:


> If true, this is pretty amazing. I wonder what the difference in price will be.


How much could a fan cost  LOL.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

amorse said:


> Absolutely agreed. Active cooling is a hard pass for me for me if it means reduced weather sealing. This is positive though - Canon obviously sees that there is a market here which isn't perfectly aligned to the needs of traditional 5D users, which the R5 was aimed at. Having an R5c and an R5 allow flexibility for potential buyers to balance their needs without compromising their use case.


And that's the end of your hardware innovations. Be happy with what you have for the next 5 -10 years. Like having a high performance PC without a fan. Try to find one. The traditional 5D user base has evaporated. Cameras are niche devices already as it is. Not even smartphones are manufactured without a video option.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> And that's the end of your hardware innovations. Be happy with what you have for the next 5 -10 years. Like having a high performance PC without a fan. Try to find one. The traditional 5D user base has evaporated. Cameras are niche devices already as it is. Not even smartphones are manufactured without a video option. And they overheat also. That's why there exist smartphone cooling peltier devices used by gamers etc.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> I don’t know that the R5c would have been in the pipeline before the release of the R5. I think that it is more of a reaction to the market. Had it been in the pipeline, release date would be much sooner.


The R5 was delayed almost half a year, these products aren't developed in a couple of months. They have a 2-3 year internal roadmap at least for camera bodies.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 18, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> Thats probably is the biggest miss, “stills first”. Given the time needed for R&D they could not have expected a Pandemic to push everyone to staying home, but Video/podcast/streaming content creation is king right now. If you are a working or aspiring Photographer you probably should be at least working on video or at least be looking to get the most out of anything you spend 4-5k on unless you just have luxury money.



The R5 was probably in final testing when the pandemic hit.


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The R5 was delayed almost half a year, these products aren't developed in a couple of months. They have a 2-3 year internal roadmap at least for camera bodies.


I agree about 2-3 year roadmaps—some can be up to 5 years (like the Panasonic S1 series). But there are times when variants based on existing products can be put into production on a short timeline.


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## lethiferous (Mar 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> And that's the end of your hardware innovations. Be happy with what you have for the next 5 -10 years. Like having a high performance PC without a fan. Try to find one. The traditional 5D user base has evaporated. Cameras are niche devices already as it is. Not even smartphones are manufactured without a video option.


What I said wasn't wrong. Yes a fan with a heatsink would be ideal, but it would also bring other compromises. To maintain the R5 form factor as it was shipped, a copper plate to dissipate heat would be worked a lot better than what it shipped with. It's not a dedicated cinema camera so, the fact it does not have a fan is not surprising but what was released is not the best effort to keep the camera cool by any means, and no amount of firmware is going to make up for physical heat buildup.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 18, 2021)

lethiferous said:


> What I said wasn't wrong. Yes a fan with a heatsink would be ideal, but it would also bring other compromises. To maintain the R5 form factor as it was shipped, a copper plate to dissipate heat would be worked a lot better than what it shipped with. It's not a dedicated cinema camera so, the fact it does not have a fan is not surprising but what was released is not the best effort to keep the camera cool by any means, and no amount of firmware is going to make up for physical heat buildup.


... and the camera would have cost more money for minimal thermal improvements. Go and check the price volatility of copper.


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## Phillips88 (Mar 18, 2021)

What’s funny is that people would be all about this if it was the other way around. The R5c coming out first, then canon making the same thing, but weather sealed.
I think the R5 is a beast of a camera, but the R5c will be a purchase for a little ease of mind for hot days and longer recordings. I still haven’t had my R5 overheat anywhere near the complaints people have. I do weddings and fitness to give an idea of my usage.


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## Phillips88 (Mar 18, 2021)

landon said:


> One major reason I'm not buying the C70, form factor. I'm not sure how you can run/gun with it. It's good for a two person interview scenario, where it's on a tripod.
> I'm hoping R5c/C60 to have C70 inputs, (one mini XLR, BPA battery)
> Specs isn't everything. BM users are very happy with the 6kPro hardware improvements.


C70 is actually pretty amazing for run and gun. They just need to adjust autofocus performance. It’s good, but not R5 good.


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## cayenne (Mar 18, 2021)

mpmark said:


> Well u
> 
> 
> well us photographers weren’t, I’m happy with my compact weather sealed R5 body. It IS a camera first after all.
> ...


Well, there's a LOT of us out there, that like to do both.


And we often don't have money for multiple bodies....so one that does it all, is the ultimate goal.

HTH,
cayenne


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## Atlasman (Mar 18, 2021)

Canon, if you are viewing these pages: make it modular like the FX3 and make the EVF optional.


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## SteveC (Mar 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Its called physics. What thin high performance laptop or tablet exist without a fan? None. The heat is sorted out. Canon forced everyones hand with the R5 by showing the limitations of a passive cooling device.



You are correct: Physics will always beat software, in the end.


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## amorse (Mar 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> And that's the end of your hardware innovations. Be happy with what you have for the next 5 -10 years. Like having a high performance PC without a fan. Try to find one. The traditional 5D user base has evaporated. Cameras are niche devices already as it is. Not even smartphones are manufactured without a video option.


I don't think that's a reasonable comparison. What proportion of high-end PCs are used in the rain? High humidity environments? Blowing sand? I don't have the answer, but I can promise you this: if high-end PCs had to be commonly used in direct contact with water, they'd be weatherproofed in one manner or another to prevent damage. How many wedding photographers/journalists/sports photographers/landscape or wildlife photographers tell their clients they can't do a job if it's raining? Not shooting in the rain isn't always an option depending on your business.

For me, weather sealing is more important than further innovation for the next 5-10 years, so if no innovation is the cost, I can make peace with that. With that said, weather sealing isn't new on cameras and we've had plenty of innovation over the last 5-10 years. I kind of doubt you can't have one without losing other. 

I doubt any of us have the actual data to prove that the traditional 5D user is gone and obviously Canon doesn't think that if they made a camera to service the market. In fact, most camera manufacturers seem to be diving *into* the traditional 5D market of full frame, high quality, stills-first cameras with weather sealing. I don't discount that a lot of people rely on video from stills cameras; that's certainly true considering that several of the manufacturers with 5D-style weather-sealed bodies also make actively cooled bodies with a video focus. That's a good thing - it lets the people who need that video performance sacrifice their weather sealing, and people who need weather sealing sacrifice their video performance. There is no one size fits all, and that's ok.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 18, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> We are willing to sacrifice some weather resistance for active cooling.


C70, S1H, and FX3 all have active cooling and are weather sealed.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 18, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Many of "us" don't feel slapped in the slightest.


R5 and R5c would be just like S1 and S1H.
Panny announced a firmware update to give S1 15 minutes of 6K which is less than R5 having 20 minutes of 8K RAW.


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## dirtyvu (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> Canon, if you are viewing these pages: make it modular like the FX3 and make the EVF optional.


Canon, make it useful by having ND filters and other cinema tools rather than gimping it like the FX3.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 18, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> The nd filters are too good to be true—and don’t forget: Blackmagic’s poor AF. But I’d like to see a removable viewfinder.


Sigma FP-l has a removable EVF as well.
It is not like that is a foreign concept for Canon.


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## Jack Jian (Mar 18, 2021)

Lol.. So this will be the real world Sony A1 market killer.


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## BeenThere (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> It seems to me like Canon are saying , we made a mistake with the R5 so we will now release another one , with cooling built in so the video side works better .


Perhaps, but given a choice with R5 costing less and in a smaller package, I would still buy the R5.


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## mariosk1gr (Mar 18, 2021)

I can see how Canon and Sony compete against each other. C70 against FX6 and now R5C against FX3. As a more video shooter I'm happy that I cancelled back then R5 to buy a C70 and now I have the time to be ready for R5C! Great times..!!


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 18, 2021)

Stig Nygaard said:


> I think I have read somewhere that making a new camera-model is a 18-24 months process.


R5c as described would basically be the same camera in a different body.
Do you really think it took Sony 18 months to come up with the FX3?


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

Sooner than one would expect. As we learned with the R5, announcements can be made at anytime. As with the XF3, this camera has already been perceived prototyped and not much really to be tested except for time characteristics. And how long does that take, a week? Expect this camera to be announced at the apportune timing for Canon. At this moment Canon is in the drivers seat.


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## jam05 (Mar 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Sooner than one would expect. As we learned with the R5, announcements can be made at anytime. And similar to the XF3, this camera has already been perceived prototyped and not much really to be tested except for time characteristics. And how long does that take, a week? Expect this camera to be announced at the apportune timing for Canon. At this moment Canon is in the drivers seat. Now that the consumer has realized that active cooling and a slight expansion in size to incorporate is reality, hopefully inroads can be made on a long awaited brighter and modern rear display. For those that can't stomach active cooling, it's not for you. However don't complain about stagnant technology and nothing but minor firmware algorithms.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 18, 2021)

I am happy with the small size of the R5.
Tilta finally has a cage for the R5 but they have yet not made the Peltier cooler they teased.
It would be tough to decide between R5 + C70 or R5c but I would rather have a small camera and a Netflix-approved cinema camera than an uber-hybrid.
Size is the main reason that I never considered a 1DX.
If Canon were to make a 5Dc I could justify owning all three.


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## gmon750 (Mar 18, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


Many R5 owners couldn't care less about the video "issues" with the R5. There hasn't been any real issues with the heating issues lately with the R5 right? Just media sites fishing for clickbait and Canon-haters looking to stir the pot.


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## gmon750 (Mar 18, 2021)

As an underwater photography, I was going to purchase the R5 but COVID put a hold on that since I'm not traveling anywhere or doing anything that would warrant a pricey investment of an R5, and the very expensive underwater housing for it. So I patiently wait and continue using my trusty 5DM3 which still provides stellar photos.

From an underwater photographer's perspective, it would be nice if Canon kept the R5's external dimensions and buttons the same so we can continue using our very expensive underwater housings which often cost more than the camera. Whatever camera I buy, it's for the long term. 

And so I patiently wait.


----------



## chasingrealness (Mar 18, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I would expect a R5c to command a significant premium over the R5


I’m sure it would, but depending on size and price I’d think it worthwhile for a camera that’s going to be relevant for a much longer period (working 8k vs. novelty 8k accents). If it’s $2,500 more and saves me from having to buy a new $3,000 camera in a couple of years (in future inflated dollars) then I’d say it’s money well spent.

But knowing myself I’d probably still buy the hypothetical future camera because I have a problem. I would go see an addiction counselor, but I can’t afford one. I spent all my money on fast glass.


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## chasingrealness (Mar 18, 2021)

gmon750 said:


> As an underwater photography, I was going to purchase the R5 but COVID put a hold on that since I'm not traveling anywhere or doing anything that would warrant a pricey investment of an R5, and the very expensive underwater housing for it. So I patiently wait and continue using my trusty 5DM3 which still provides stellar photos.
> 
> From an underwater photographer's perspective, it would be nice if Canon kept the R5's external dimensions and buttons the same so we can continue using our very expensive underwater housings which often cost more than the camera. Whatever camera I buy, it's for the long term.
> 
> And so I patiently wait.


A 5d sized R5 makes sense.


----------



## gavinz (Mar 18, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


 Glad they listen to the video centric crow. Not a big concern for me but still nice to see. I think you can still make it pretty water proof if you want to and I wonder how big it will be. Size is also not a big issue for me.


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## David - Sydney (Mar 18, 2021)

lethiferous said:


> No firmware is going to fix what was simply just a stupid lack of a proper cooper plate. I already measured it out and have one cnced. Moment my warranty is up I am slapping it in. If you do video at 4k hq the camera overheats very quickly. Luckily on social media with reg 4k and 75% sharpness added in premier and 4k crop mode, it still looks very good.


Can't you record 4KHQ externally without the overheating issue? Adding the copper plate will still have heating issues ie hot spots on the back and need the screen to be open and on a tripod.


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## David - Sydney (Mar 18, 2021)

gmon750 said:


> As an underwater photography, I was going to purchase the R5 but COVID put a hold on that since I'm not traveling anywhere or doing anything that would warrant a pricey investment of an R5, and the very expensive underwater housing for it. So I patiently wait and continue using my trusty 5DM3 which still provides stellar photos.
> 
> From an underwater photographer's perspective, it would be nice if Canon kept the R5's external dimensions and buttons the same so we can continue using our very expensive underwater housings which often cost more than the camera. Whatever camera I buy, it's for the long term.
> 
> And so I patiently wait.


I made the plunge (!) and got the R5 and Ikelite housing for it. The R5 will be plenty sufficient for a long time. I tend to shoot 4k/120 short clips underwater only but mostly stills. I get that a R5c would be better for long form underwater video. The 5Diii/iv/SR can have the same housing - at least in the Ikelite range and I upgraded from 5Diii to 5Div okay. That in itself was a nice bump in performance. The R5 is a significant jump again. Just wish that my 100mm macro would stop focusing on particulate between me and the subject


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## a4jp.com (Mar 18, 2021)

GPS, an accelerometer, internal Nd filters, global shutter, 2 high speed cards, no set recording times, a better menu, better webcam settings... Hope they get this right this time. Pity this is gonna cost 500,000 yen though.


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## navastronia (Mar 18, 2021)

Rendil said:


> Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.



R5 is not a cinema camera


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 19, 2021)

gmon750 said:


> Many R5 owners couldn't care less about the video "issues" with the R5. There hasn't been any real issues with the heating issues lately with the R5 right? Just media sites fishing for clickbait and Canon-haters looking to stir the pot.


No. It’s getting the most out of the camera that you have with you. The sensor, body, and ecosystem are amazing with the R5. The silly, it’s not a cinema camera statement is just as old as the overheating commentary. It’s the software that consistently points to Canon missing how people would like to use the “DSLR” bodies.

Record limits, only recording to one slot, Clog2-3, hard to edit video codecs(no issue for me,M1), custom modes on the R6, for some reason switching to micro HDMI, the ibis wobble shooting wide, no control over ibis vs is being on, no 120fps In 1080, photo settings being video settings, no 10bit without shooting in log, I would love an auto white balance lock in both modes.....

It’s 2021, these are not cinema camera features, they are camera features. Canon is just behind in reacting. I’m a mostly photo guy, but the video is still creatively limiting where most new cameras are expanding for much less money.

I Have access to an A7siii and the colors are vastly improved from what I remember from the A7iii(green skin tones, Wb didn’t match). 12mp isn’t a huge down grade from 45, and really close to 20 if framed properly. Just my 3 cents.


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## David - Sydney (Mar 19, 2021)

Finn said:


> we are going to see a C70 style camera (most likely the same body) with the crippled 45MP FF sensor from R5.


How is the R5's sensor crippled? Gotta love/hate that word and only certain people use it.


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## Finn (Mar 19, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> How is the R5's sensor crippled? Gotta love/hate that word and only certain people use it.


It does not have very good DR potential compared to other Canon sensors.


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## David - Sydney (Mar 19, 2021)

Finn said:


> It does not have very good DR potential compared to other Canon sensors.


Not sure what you mean. Dxomark (as much as I don't like their methodologies) gives it 14.6Ev landscape DR which is the highest of Canon's sensors (at least full frame) and is dual gain @ISO400.
https://www.dxomark.com/canon-eos-r5-sensor-review-a-high-water-mark/
Photons gives it 11.85 and the highest of Canon's sensors tested.
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon EOS R5,Nikon Z 7,Sony ILCE-7RM4
A more nuanced review of DR at:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-review/5
Where have you seen poor results?


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## dirtyvu (Mar 19, 2021)

Finn said:


> It does not have very good DR potential compared to other Canon sensors.


more BS from a Sony fan...


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## sanj (Mar 19, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Sorry, but I disagree. I don't want a camera that's bigger, heavier, more expensive, and (possibly) less weatherproof. It's great that the R5c is coming out so that you can be happy with it, and I can be happy without it.


Sorry, but I disagree. i want a proper functional camera even if slightly larger.


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## sanj (Mar 19, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> I don't think so. The R5 will be for people who primarily do stills. The R5c will be for people who primarily do video. As the C70 demonstrates, adding a fan makes a camera fatter. Many still photographers wouldn't like that. The C70 also has a bunch of additional buttons on the side.


Nope. I clearly remember the marketing for R5. It was totally video-centric.


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## sanj (Mar 19, 2021)

Stig Nygaard said:


> Made a mistake? Totally disagree. Of course we haven't seen the new model yet, but I guess most people still will go for normal R5. A body with active cooling sounds like something you want only if you plan to do a lot of video with it.


I totally agree with Richard.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 19, 2021)

sanj said:


> Sorry, but I disagree. i want a proper functional camera even if slightly larger.


And there in lies the rub, we all have different priorities. For most R5 owners the video limits are not limitations, for some they are, so Canon is bringing out a different camera that is going to cost a lot more for them.

That doesn’t mean the R5 is a bad camera, it isn’t, it is the best general purpose camera Canon make and the people I know that own them absolutely love them (but I doubt any of them have shot a seconds video). But it isn’t everything for everyone, and no camera could be nowadays.


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## padam (Mar 19, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Where have you seen poor results?


It's not about stills, it is a bit crippled for video as only RAW video gives access to the full dynamic range which is 8k30p only
which not many people will use. (even though the camera is capable of recording RAW in the cropped mode up to 4k60p),






After the firmware update it will get Canon Log 3, which should be a good step up, but it looks like the R5 C will be the camera that gets the full dynamic range with Canon Log 2 and possibly a few other things. 
And I reckon this 'full video unlocking' will not come cheap.


----------



## Antono Refa (Mar 19, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> ... and the camera would have cost more money for minimal thermal improvements. Go and check the price volatility of copper.
> View attachment 196338


Over the past five years, copper price has varied between $2.05 and $4.1 per pound. even if the heat sync had a whole pound of copper in it, that would be a $2 variance on a $3,000+ camera. That's sub .1%


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## Antono Refa (Mar 19, 2021)

amorse said:


> How many wedding photographers/journalists/sports photographers/landscape or wildlife photographers tell their clients they can't do a job if it's raining? Not shooting in the rain isn't always an option depending on your business.


Sure, some photographers have to work in the rain, but wedding photographers? I doubt those need their cameras to be more than splash proof. I gather even some sport events take a break when it rains, e.g. baseball.


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## sanj (Mar 19, 2021)

Why are people assuming that it will not be weatherproof? There is zero chance that it will not be any less weatherproof than R5. Stop making up stories people. Canon made a mistake by launching a camera that heats up and freezes quickly. They will NOT make another mistake by launching a camera that is not weatherproof.


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## Finn (Mar 19, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Not sure what you mean. Dxomark (as much as I don't like their methodologies) gives it 14.6Ev landscape DR which is the highest of Canon's sensors (at least full frame) and is dual gain @ISO400.
> https://www.dxomark.com/canon-eos-r5-sensor-review-a-high-water-mark/
> Photons gives it 11.85 and the highest of Canon's sensors tested.
> https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon EOS R5,Nikon Z 7,Sony ILCE-7RM4
> ...


I think we have a misunderstanding. I'm talking about DR performance in video, not stills. In video the R5 is solidly behind the competition for a FF sensor. Since the "R5c" is video focused my comments are in context of that. The stills out of the R5 are fantastic.

The R5 sensor is "crippled" in terms of we know they can do much, much better: C500 for example. Sony is putting some of their best tech in "consumer" cameras. Canon should do the same.



dirtyvu said:


> more BS from a Sony fan...


The only camera I own at the moment is an R5. Please seek help for your brand identity problem.


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## Finn (Mar 19, 2021)

padam said:


> video as only RAW video gives access to the full dynamic range which is 8k30p only


8K is available in 24p or 30p. Jem in the linked video even shows a 8K RAW 23.98 video.


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## amorse (Mar 19, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> Sure, some photographers have to work in the rain, but wedding photographers? I doubt those need their cameras to be more than splash proof. I gather even some sport events take a break when it rains, e.g. baseball.


I think it really depends. Rain delay rules are different by the sport and some sports are more tolerant of rain than others. On the more tolerant end of the spectrum, I believe football and rugby only stop for lightning or dangerous weather. On the wedding side, I'd suspect more often than not splash protection would be sufficient. For context, I'm a hobby photographer but I take the odd paid job. The last time I shot a wedding was by far the wettest I've ever let my camera get. The client's wedding day rained non-stop but they dreamed of wedding photos under fall colour, so we made it work. Unfortunately making it work felt like I came out of a pool when we were done! I've shot in plenty of downpours for landscapes, but that wedding was by far the wettest I've ever let my camera get, and only because someone was paying me to do it. 

Again, others have noted that a lot of the active cooling bodies can be weather sealed, and I'm all for that. Knowing my use history, I need weather sealing more than active cooling, but if I can have both, great! Again, I think it's all about picking the right tool for the job.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 19, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> Sure, some photographers have to work in the rain...


Wildlife photographers know what a real rain is...


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 19, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> The R5 matches it in 4k30 HQ mode, but not in 4k60.


R5 4K HQ is much better than the R6.
R5 Crop mode is about as sharp as R6 in full-frame.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 19, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> They didn't mention a ND in the post. I'm guessing we won't see that in a R body until they have a global shutter which has no mechanical shutter which frees up room for a ND


It is supposed to be a bigger body.
Think BMPCC 6K vs BMPCC 6K Pro.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 19, 2021)

landon said:


> One major reason I'm not buying the C70, form factor. I'm not sure how you can run/gun with it. It's good for a two person interview scenario, where it's on a tripod.


C70 was designed to be handheld.
While it is huge compared to the R5 it is small for a cinema camera.
(FX3 is not really a cinema camera.)
If you use large enough lenses then the size difference will not really matter.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 19, 2021)

sanj said:


> There is zero chance that it will not be any less weatherproof than R5.


R6 is not as weatherproof as R5.
R5c will be as weatherproof as C70.


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## Talys (Mar 19, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> And there in lies the rub, we all have different priorities. For most R5 owners the video limits are not limitations, for some they are, so Canon is bringing out a different camera that is going to cost a lot more for them.
> 
> That doesn’t mean the R5 is a bad camera, it isn’t, it is the best general purpose camera Canon make and the people I know that own them absolutely love them (but I doubt any of them have shot a seconds video). But it isn’t everything for everyone, and no camera could be nowadays.


I fall into this category. I own an R5, a bunch of RF lenses, love it, and have not even toggled it to video mode to see the interface. Assuming I don't sell it, the camera will probably never record a second of video in its lifetime. 

For those who need or love video, I'm happy for them that they will soon have a great option. For me, I would not want any of the following to increase for a feature I'd never use: size, weight, cost. If none of those go up, sure, better is better


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## AEWest (Mar 19, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> R6 is not as weatherproof as R5.
> R5c will be as weatherproof as C70.


We won't know until closer to relase date.


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## dba101 (Mar 19, 2021)

1DC still going strong.
Would’ve liked to of got an R5. Maybe things will fall into line in time to pick another cream of the crop camera out from Canon.


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## Atlasman (Mar 19, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> C70 was designed to be handheld.
> While it is huge compared to the R5 it is small for a cinema camera.
> (FX3 is not really a cinema camera.)
> If you use large enough lenses then the size difference will not really matter.


I’m curious: why is the FX3 not really a cinema camera?


----------



## Monte (Mar 20, 2021)

gmon750 said:


> As an underwater photography, I was going to purchase the R5 but COVID put a hold on that since I'm not traveling anywhere or doing anything that would warrant a pricey investment of an R5, and the very expensive underwater housing for it. So I patiently wait and continue using my trusty 5DM3 which still provides stellar photos.
> 
> From an underwater photographer's perspective, it would be nice if Canon kept the R5's external dimensions and buttons the same so we can continue using our very expensive underwater housings which often cost more than the camera. Whatever camera I buy, it's for the long term.
> 
> And so I patiently wait.



I wonder if “animal eye tracking” picks up on fish and other aquatic species etc. in your use underwater?


----------



## John Wilde (Mar 20, 2021)

Rendil said:


> Such a slap in the face to those of us who bought the R5 IMO.


No. A fan makes a camera body fatter. I don't think most still photographers want a camera body that looks like the C70.


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## djack41 (Mar 20, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5


1080p 120fps good for me


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## SteveC (Mar 20, 2021)

djack41 said:


> 1080p 120fps good for me



I'm _primarily_ a stills person but when I'm playing tourist especially with zoo/wildlife I'll take the occasional short video; it's as interesting to be able to go back and watch the animals move as it is to see a still. (Certainly nothing professional-level here.) The capability to take "slow mo" without it being in 4K (which is overkill to me, never mind not wanting to have to buy a special card for it) is something I'm looking forward to.

Nevertheless there are some other enhancements I'd love to see, such as lifting apparently arbitrary restrictions on reassigning buttons.


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 20, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> No. A fan makes a camera body fatter. I don't think most still photographers want a camera body that looks like the C70.


Fan aside most of the upgrades are software based and could have easily been in the R5.... I have never used 8k and don’t expect too, I do used the 4K HQ though.

if the sensor is the same, iQ is probably the same too. Taking away mini hdmi makes more sense now, the R5c will be a bigger “upgrade”.

the slap in the face is actually having a cinema camera c200, c300, c500.... then taking unlimited recording(even in 1080), Log profiles, 120 with sound, full HDMI, editable codecs and making them “cinema” features.... sounds like a GH5 to me .


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## Franklyok (Mar 20, 2021)

R1 is going to be anounced before R5C , with quad pxl AF ...

why no quad pxl AF on R5C


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## fox40phil (Mar 20, 2021)

This is exactly what I expected after the heating problems! 
Or a R5b with a hardware upgrade.


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## jam05 (Mar 21, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> Fan aside most of the upgrades are software based and could have easily been in the R5.... I have never used 8k and don’t expect too, I do used the 4K HQ though.
> 
> if the sensor is the same, iQ is probably the same too. Taking away mini hdmi makes more sense now, the R5c will be a bigger “upgrade”.
> 
> the slap in the face is actually having a cinema camera c200, c300, c500.... then taking unlimited recording(even in 1080), Log profiles, 120 with sound, full HDMI, editable codecs and making them “cinema” features.... sounds like a GH5 to me .


What a car owner says the following year of a purchase. "A slap in the face". How stupid and silly. The video firmware task the processor which in turn writes to the card which causes excessive heat. Now that its well known and people willing to live with the limitations and the Cinema camera has also been released there's no downside. 8k is the Wow factor as well as all the ALL- I options. Like 180 mph on a speedometer. Not many people will ever use it. Canon forced the issue by setting the bar and limitations of a non active cooled device. Every high perfomance device with a processor and witing video to memory storage has a fan. Even the thinest of laptops and Surface Pro computers. Smartphone even overheat and have peltier coolers designed for them.


----------



## jam05 (Mar 21, 2021)

padam said:


> All makes sense now. The R5 was built to a price that is a lot less than a Sony A1 (or the upcoming Nikon Z9).
> 
> This new variant will cost way more though, the previous rumour suggested ND filters, that probably sounds too good to be true, to keep it working as a "full-on" hybrid camera it will have the mechanical shutter and IBIS retained (just like the Sony FX3).
> 
> I wonder if they are going to "unlock" the 5.1k60P internal RAW recording in the 1.6x crop mode as well or keep it at 8K only, as it is just an artificial limitation on the R5, the 1DX III can handle it with the same processor and memory card interface. Although AF is disabled on the 1DX III in 5.5k60p or 4k60p FF mode, while DPAF is fully operational on the R6 in the almost FF 4k60p mode, maybe even Canon is getting confused about which camera can do this and that


The 1dx3 is huge and has a different . storage bus. 5k isn't a wow factor, nor is there a demand for it. Canon isnt confused, you are. You can probably count request for 5k video on one hand. The 1DX series cameras are designed and manufactured for the professional sports photographer. Video functions are simply added extras. Nothing more.


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 21, 2021)

jam05 said:


> What a car owner says the following year of a purchase. "A slap in the face". How stupid and silly. The video firmware task the processor which in turn writes to the card which causes excessive heat. Now that its well known and people willing to live with the limitations and the Cinema camera has also been released there's no downside. 8k is the Wow factor as well as all the ALL- I options. Like 180 mph on a speedometer. Not many people will ever use it. Canon forced the issue by setting the bar and limitations of a non active cooled device. Every high perfomance device with a processor and witing video to memory storage has a fan. Even the thinest of laptops and Surface Pro computers. Smartphone even overheat and have peltier coolers designed for them.


That’s the thing. I don’t care in the slightest about 8k. Most don’t.

I am primarily a stills shooter, but dont want to buy another body with a fan(that I don’t need)to have the options that aren’t related to the Fan, to have the creative options lesser priced cameras have. Of course like most of us, we are heavily invested in canon glass and bodies, but now to have an unlimited 1080 video I need a “cinema camera” ? Not only that but the same sensor and a like body that I just spent $4k+ ...idk seems foul.


----------



## sanj (Mar 21, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> That’s the thing. I don’t care in the slightest about 8k. Most don’t.
> 
> I am primarily a stills shooter, but dont want to buy another body with a fan(that I don’t need)to have the options that aren’t related to the Fan, to have the creative options lesser priced cameras have. Of course like most of us, we are heavily invested in canon glass and bodies, but now to have an unlimited 1080 video I need a “cinema camera” ? Not only that but the same sensor and a like body that I just spent $4k+ ...idk seems foul.


I care about 8k. A LOT. MANY do.


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## sanj (Mar 21, 2021)

jam05 said:


> The 1dx3 is huge and has a different . storage bus. 5k isn't a wow factor, nor is there a demand for it. Canon isnt confused, you are. You can probably count request for 5k video on one hand. The 1DX series cameras are designed and manufactured for the professional sports photographer. Video functions are simply added extras. Nothing more.


Video functions are NOT simply added extras. Nope.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Mar 21, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> I’m curious: why is the FX3 not really a cinema camera?


No DCI 4k.
UHD is for broadcasting.
FX6 has DCI 4k.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Mar 21, 2021)

AEWest said:


> We won't know until closer to relase date.


We know because it has active cooling like C70, SH1, and FX3.
If Canon were going to have cooling outside of the body then they could just sell us a cooler for the R5.
I would buy one.
I will buy the Tilta one if they ever do make it.


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 21, 2021)

$4500 as a guess.


----------



## Atlasman (Mar 21, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> No DCI 4k.
> UHD is for broadcasting.
> FX6 has DCI 4k.


I suspect Sony will add DCI on a future firmware update—along with some additional exposure tools.


----------



## sanj (Mar 21, 2021)

croviking said:


> That's good news for future R5 owners who will buy 2nd hand units from the current R5 owners who go R5c
> 
> I favor weather sealing over long 8k record time.


Who told you it will not have weather sealing please?


----------



## MinoltaSRT101 (Mar 21, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> Nice. This is exactly what all the videographers were asking for. We are willing to sacrifice some weather resistance for active cooling.
> 
> CLOG 2 is great news for dynamic range fans as well.


Doesn't every opening (battery compartment, card slot door, mic/headphone jacks, etc sacrifice some weather resistance? I don't see why they can't design the R5c to be weather sealed as good as it is now when shooting stills or video that doesn't require active cooling and then have either a manual or automatic way of opening vents only at times when active cooling is required.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Mar 21, 2021)

sanj said:


> I care about 8k. A LOT. MANY do.


I’m not going to go back and forth on this one; but the outlets that you can view 8k footage is such a small percentage. The other end is the ability to crop, again a really small use case(we said the same thing about 4K to deliver in 1080).

8k just isn’t a option for 95% of people to view in and that is being very generous. It’s cute to show off but creatively it’s at the bottom of the list.


----------



## Talys (Mar 21, 2021)

sanj said:


> I care about 8k. A LOT. MANY do.


This is fair. That's why it's important to stratify products with variants that have different physical characteristics, price points, and features.

Especially as technology is new it is just impossible to satisfy everyone with one model, and the models with fewer folks expected to buy will invariably be priced higher. 

I'm actually amazed at how versatile and jack if all trades R5 is, considering that it is only 2nd generation Canon mirrorless. It's perfect for me, and I suspect for many people who are looking for very different features than me.


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## dboris (Mar 22, 2021)

"computers can't handle 8K"
Yet new Apple M1X will make it a breeze.
Also I really wonder how the 1DX and the R5C will differ for video shooters. 
If the R5C has a good video codec and a ND then it's a winner over the R1.


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## sanj (Mar 22, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> I’m not going to go back and forth on this one; but the outlets that you can view 8k footage is such a small percentage. The other end is the ability to crop, again a really small use case(we said the same thing about 4K to deliver in 1080).
> 
> 8k just isn’t a option for 95% of people to view in and that is being very generous. It’s cute to show off but creatively it’s at the bottom of the list.


Who said I/others want to shoot in 8k to playback in 8k? You go back and forth or not, you have missed the point of 8K entirely.


----------



## sanj (Mar 22, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> I’m not going to go back and forth on this one; but the outlets that you can view 8k footage is such a small percentage. The other end is the ability to crop, again a really small use case(we said the same thing about 4K to deliver in 1080).
> 
> 8k just isn’t a option for 95% of people to view in and that is being very generous. It’s cute to show off but creatively it’s at the bottom of the list.


Besides, the 8K crowd deserves the 8k because they want to. And.... R5 can shoot for 4k for people who do not want to shoot 8k. FYI.


----------



## sanj (Mar 22, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> I’m not going to go back and forth on this one; but the outlets that you can view 8k footage is such a small percentage. The other end is the ability to crop, again a really small use case(we said the same thing about 4K to deliver in 1080).
> 
> 8k just isn’t a option for 95% of people to view in and that is being very generous. It’s cute to show off but creatively it’s at the bottom of the list.


The resolution has NOTHING to do with creativity. It is just a means to make the video look better - not more creative per say. Cute?


----------



## Rocksthaman (Mar 22, 2021)

sanj said:


> The resolution has NOTHING to do with creativity. It is just a means to make the video look better - not more creative per say. Cute?


The point is way over there
Look there just are not many outlets for 8k. I have not read ,watched or talked to many with a functional use for other than to get raw and clog 2. There maybe some using it, but as much as I have paid attention to this product, even the A1 most don’t have a use for shooting 8k at this point. No outlet, and storage hungry.

All that to say, it really feels like Canon created problems in the R5/R6 to solve with the R5c(Over heating aside). Now to fix it you will have to buy the new one, that is the old one with a fan and full hdmi.


----------



## amorse (Mar 22, 2021)

Franklyok said:


> R1 is going to be anounced before R5C , with quad pxl AF ...
> 
> why no quad pxl AF on R5C


I think the R5c is rumoured to have the same sensor as the R5: adding quad pixel to that would mean it would need to be an entirely new sensor. Canon have done this before - in the same fashion, the 5DS and 5DSR were released after dual pixel, but did not come with dual pixel. With that said, I do think an R1 is coming, but I'm not sure that we've seen a high CR rated rumour on the R1 - the R5C could certainly turn up first.


----------



## sanj (Mar 22, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> The point is way over there
> Look there just are not many outlets for 8k. I have not read ,watched or talked to many with a functional use for other than to get raw and clog 2. There maybe some using it, but as much as I have paid attention to this product, even the A1 most don’t have a use for shooting 8k at this point. No outlet, and storage hungry.
> 
> All that to say, it really feels like Canon created problems in the R5/R6 to solve with the R5c(Over heating aside). Now to fix it you will have to buy the new one, that is the old one with a fan and full hdmi.


Again. You miss the point of shooting on 8k. "Rolls eyes". 
Canon did not 'create' a problem. That is what they could do best at that time or thought that was the way to go. Now they realize that the 20 min cap is not cutting it and are finding a solution. R5 will still be in the market for those who want it, btw.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Mar 22, 2021)

dboris said:


> "computers can't handle 8K"
> Yet new Apple M1X will make it a breeze.
> Also I really wonder how the 1DX and the R5C will differ for video shooters.
> If the R5C has a good video codec and a ND then it's a winner over the R1.


M1 chipset just has the latest chipsets built in.
Quite a lot of RAM is needed for 8K so people are running down their SSDs with virtual memory and somehow blaming Apple.
Newer Intel chips have the proper codecs built in.








media-driver/README.md at master · intel/media-driver


Contribute to intel/media-driver development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com




I have not seen any indication from AMD.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 22, 2021)

sanj said:


> Video functions are NOT simply added extras. Nope.


Mr. Sanj, if I had your exquisite skills, I’d care about it too! There are not many true artists like yourself.


----------



## SteveC (Mar 22, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> The point is way over there
> Look there just are not many outlets for 8k. I have not read ,watched or talked to many with a functional use for other than to get raw and clog 2. There maybe some using it, but as much as I have paid attention to this product, even the A1 most don’t have a use for shooting 8k at this point. No outlet, and storage hungry.
> 
> All that to say, it really feels like Canon created problems in the R5/R6 to solve with the R5c(Over heating aside). Now to fix it you will have to buy the new one, that is the old one with a fan and full hdmi.



One reason content creators want 8k is that they can go into their video editor and "crop" it down to 4k or even 1080p...and then as the video goes on, pan the crop rectangle to follow the action.

They are therefore using 8K as a tool to produce 1080p (which is still as high as the majority of consumers can go) or 4K (for those a little ahead of the pack. They're not using 8K to create 8K product. If that is what they were doing, you'd actually have a point. It isn't...so really, you don't.

And I say this as someone who'll probably never use it, himself.


----------



## John Wilde (Mar 22, 2021)

croviking said:


> That's good news for future R5 owners who will buy 2nd hand units from the current R5 owners who go R5c
> 
> I favor weather sealing over long 8k record time.


In their news article about the Canon C70, DPR wrote: "The cooling system is outside the sealed part of the camera to prevent dust or moisture from reaching the electronics", so it's possible to have both.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Mar 22, 2021)

sanj said:


> Again. You miss the point of shooting on 8k. "Rolls eyes".
> Canon did not 'create' a problem. That is what they could do best at that time or thought that was the way to go. Now they realize that the 20 min cap is not cutting it and are finding a solution. R5 will still be in the market for those who want it, btw.





SteveC said:


> One reason content creators want 8k is that they can go into their video editor and "crop" it down to 4k or even 1080p...and then as the video goes on, pan the crop rectangle to follow the action.
> 
> They are therefore using 8K as a tool to produce 1080p (which is still as high as the majority of consumers can go) or 4K (for those a little ahead of the pack. They're not using 8K to create 8K product. If that is what they were doing, you'd actually have a point. It isn't...so really, you don't.
> 
> And I say this as someone who'll probably never use it, himself.


I have no idea why the utility of 8k keeps coming up. Everyone here understands 8k and the fact that you can crop and downsample. It’s neither practical or efficient storage wise at about half a TB per 25 mins. Some may use but most don’t. I’m truly indifferent to it. I’ve played with it a couple of times, pretty nice but a storage hog. 8k is fine.

I have no issue with it or the fan going into an R5c, it’s the micro Hdmi when we have always had mini(there’s space for it, tear downs show this as well), 29:59 record limit, recording to both card slots, c log 2/3, no custom record saving on the R6, hard to edit codecs, sound in 120, ibis wobble, ibis or is choice with a stabilized lens. It’s the same things everyone else has already said...my only problem is these are not limitations of heat and the r5c will have the same sensor.

8k aside it’s a bit frustrating to have to buy the same camera again to get “features” that are not related to the hardware changes. If these where features like raw or ND or XLR or any other “cinema” features... but these are items in an A7c or Panasonic s5 both sub $2000. Again love my R5&R6, I would just like to get more out of them


----------



## David - Sydney (Mar 22, 2021)

Monte said:


> I wonder if “animal eye tracking” picks up on fish and other aquatic species etc. in your use underwater?


Yeah, average in my experience. Depends on what you are shooting. Fish with big eyes especially side-on are no problem but other critters don't have the same "eye" patterns. Body camouflage can also be tricky. Sharks, nudibranch, octopus and cuttlefish posing in the shots. All taken in Sydney over the last 6 months
The tracking is also put to extremes when both you are the subject are potentially moving. Shooting nudibranchs for instance can be tricky as they don't have eyes but the R5 is still searching for them.


----------



## usern4cr (Mar 23, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Yeah, average in my experience. Depends on what you are shooting. Fish with big eyes are no problem but other critters don't have the same "eye" patterns. Body camouflage can also be tricky.
> The tracking is also put to extremes when both you are the subject are potentially moving. Shooting nudibranchs for instance can be tricky as they don't have eyes but the R5 is still searching for them.


WOW - Those are beautiful photos! Kudos!


----------



## sanj (Mar 23, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Mr. Sanj, if I had your exquisite skills, I’d care about it too! There are not many true artists like yourself.


Ohhh. Thank you. But I am not a 'true artist', I am aspiring to be one.


----------



## unfocused (Mar 23, 2021)

sanj said:


> Ohhh. Thank you. But I am not a 'true artist', I am aspiring to be one.


You are closer than most of us.


----------



## sanj (Mar 23, 2021)

unfocused said:


> You are closer than most of us.


Thank you, SIR. This is the motivation for me to work harder.


----------



## claudiu T (Mar 23, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Hi. Any rumors about rf 35mm 1.2 or rf 24mm pls? Thx


----------



## Phillips88 (Mar 23, 2021)

The only way (IMO) that the R5c will make sense, is with the following:

- better codec (a must)
- better DR
- clog 2 & 3
- built in ND’s (huge deal)
- no record limit
- no overheating (even tho I don’t experience this issue, even with weddings)
- full hdmi 

I’m sure I’m missing something, but these specs are what I would believe to be crucial things to make anyone consider the R5c. I would buy 2 on top of owning two R5’s.


----------



## Profit007 (Mar 24, 2021)

@Phippipss88, you are describing a video camera, not a hybrid. There would be huge demand for the 5D as is (minus record limit), without overheating, IF it wasn't priced crazily. 

Remember the original 1DC? It was DOUBLE the cost of the 1D and the only hardware difference was an internal heatsink (50 cents of worth of stamped alu). Canon wondered why they lost so much customer respect and brand loyalty. They deserved to lose it.

There will be more differences this time around: a whole new body, and an air path (though heatsink fins) that is sealed off from the rest of the internals, like most notebooks. But now instead of just having to beat Nikon (which they could do in their sleep), Canon have to compete with Sony, which is really shaking up their attitude.

The R5C pricing will be a window into how much their attitude has really changed.


----------



## dirtyvu (Mar 24, 2021)

Phillips88 said:


> The only way (IMO) that the R5c will make sense, is with the following:
> 
> - better codec (a must)
> 
> I’m sure I’m missing something, but these specs are what I would believe to be crucial things to make anyone consider the R5c. I would buy 2 on top of owning two R5’s.


the issue is current graphics cards and drivers (as well as Adobe Premiere) do not support 10-bit 4:2:2 h.265 hardware acceleration. once they do, there will be no issue with R5 video editing. Because the lack of GPU acceleration of that format, it falls completely onto the CPU to decode and encode. Apple had the foresight to recognize that in their M1 chip and as a result, editing R5 footage (and it requires Davinci or Final Cut; thanks, Adobe) is easy.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Mar 24, 2021)

Profit007 said:


> @Phippipss88, *you are describing a video camera, not a hybrid*. There would be huge demand for the 5D as is (minus record limit), without overheating, IF it wasn't priced crazily.
> 
> Remember the original 1DC? It was DOUBLE the cost of the 1D and the only hardware difference was an internal heatsink (50 cents of worth of stamped alu). Canon wondered why they lost so much customer respect and brand loyalty. They deserved to lose it.
> 
> ...


Lol I swear 50% of CR works for canon or has Canon.com as their home page and only visit there and here.

He did not describe a video camera , sounds a lot like many 2020-21 hybrids GH5, SH1, A1, A7siii, xt4 outside of the ND Filters.

Outside of the ND filters, the description matches exactly the expected specs of the A7iv or the gh6 or the A1 as well. It really feels like Canon built the R5’s limitations with the plan of solving them with the R5c as most of the above list either firmware or HDMI, which there is space for in the R5.

I’m playing with an A7siii now and of course most of the list is in it(actually it takes great stills), but it feels Sterile and even jpegs feel flat. Man I hope the next firmware is awesome and doesn’t hold back. I Would much rather pay canon an extra 500 to unlock log, unlimited recording, codecs, zebras and a auto white balance lock than to have to sell my R5 then pay 1DC prices for the same sensor I already had.

Crazy thing is with heat, I actually never have any issues with it and The Sony seems to get hotter quicker, but then there’s also almost nothing you can’t do with it too. Weird


----------



## TAF (Mar 24, 2021)

Richard Anthony said:


> Thats bad news for current R5 owners , that means the next firmware updates are not going to sort the heating issues out , or add much to the video side of the current R5



Depends on how you look at it. If it means that future firmware updates are aimed primarily at improving the stills capability, then perhaps it will be a blessing for many R5 owners (myself included).


----------



## Phillips88 (Mar 24, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> the issue is current graphics cards and drivers (as well as Adobe Premiere) do not support 10-bit 4:2:2 h.265 hardware acceleration. once they do, there will be no issue with R5 video editing. Because the lack of GPU acceleration of that format, it falls completely onto the CPU to decode and encode. Apple had the foresight to recognize that in their M1 chip and as a result, editing R5 footage (and it requires Davinci or Final Cut; thanks, Adobe) is easy.





dirtyvu said:


> the issue is current graphics cards and drivers (as well as Adobe Premiere) do not support 10-bit 4:2:2 h.265 hardware acceleration. once they do, there will be no issue with R5 video editing. Because the lack of GPU acceleration of that format, it falls completely onto the CPU to decode and encode. Apple had the foresight to recognize that in their M1 chip and as a result, editing R5 footage (and it requires Davinci or Final Cut; thanks, Adobe) is easy.


I don’t mind the codec format, but more so the amount of space used to achieve that codec. The C70 shoots way less, but looks just as good, if not better in 4K. I think I said that right lol. 

The data rates are just insane. I’ve heard some people talk about proress being implemented. Is that even an option?


----------



## randfee (Mar 24, 2021)

fan needing bigger body for cooling and thus no overheating makes sense, it's a hardware upgrade.
But how on earth does Canon not 'cripple' their still new R5 if they offer C-Log2 and other software only features on the same hardware (besides cooler) in an R5c?

I feel ripped off as it is.... this would be another bummer.

At least go and offer firmware addons people can pick and pay for. 50 bucks for CLOG2... ok. 50 bucks for waveforms. H264 codec, focus-spot bound metering etc etc.
But no... Canon just claims it doesn't cripple their cameras ... right. Who are they fooling? Sadly most. Why would they change their behavior if most customers don't mind spending the money and not even complain?

I'm a more or less happy Canon shooter, 'stuck' with many lenses, never switched to Sony because of that and because I like many things about Canon better. 
I'm mostly happy with the R5 but eager for a policy change from Canon towards higher frequency firmware upgrades. Make money with hardware, provide the best software you can, charge for addons if you must but don't expect most people purchasing cameras more frequently when all that is missing is Canon's will to SUPPORT their own product properly.


----------



## Bdbtoys (Mar 24, 2021)

randfee said:


> fan needing bigger body for cooling and thus no overheating makes sense, it's a hardware upgrade.
> But how on earth does Canon not 'cripple' their still new R5 if they offer C-Log2 and other software only features on the same hardware (besides cooler) in an R5c?
> 
> I feel ripped off as it is.... this would be another bummer.
> ...


We are getting clog3 soon for free on the upcoming firmware.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Mar 25, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> We are getting clog3 soon for free on the upcoming firmware.


It’s almost like he already knew that and stated cLog 2 for a reason.

It’s pretty clear the point he is making and it’s valid. Not to mention do you remember the 1DC and the accompanying price? $12k ....in 2012.


----------



## randfee (Mar 25, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> We are getting clog3 soon for free on the upcoming firmware.


what does that have to do with my statement?


Rocksthaman said:


> It’s almost like he already knew that and stated cLog 2 for a reason.


yes of course I knew that C-Log 3 is supposed to come out for the R5. But why not C-Log2 as well, it's not like it would cost them a lot of work adding it. C-Log2 offers more dynamic range, that's just a fact. So why wouldn't they offer it but instead now announce it for the R5c? It's shameful.












taken from this website:








Canon Log 3 vs. Canon Log 2 Side by Side 4K Comparison


Filmmaker and post-production professional, Jon Carr took compares Canon Log 3 vs Canon Log 2 on the C300 Mark II with the latest firmware.




www.4kshooters.net





or here:








C-Log 3 Tests - Canon C300 II


News/Press Releases




www.proav.co.uk





No need to discuss the differences between the log formats here, C-Log2 just offers more dynamic range, period. My question and frustration remains, it is an artificial castration of features and half a year ago or so some Canon manager was interviewed regarding crippling their models and the answer was 'no'... which is obviously not truthful.

Give me the firmware and I will add focus spot related metering in a couple of days/weeks, I'm a good enough programmer of high efficiency code for image analysis to pull this off, it could maybe be done in a day if you knew your way around the firmware already. Laughable. I bet you they'll offer it the the R1 and R5 users will keep thinking that it's a hardware limit... right... every phone can do it but the 4500€ camera with a throughput of 30frames 8K a second can't ... LOL

Oh and 99 frame limit in the intervalometer. How about the record limit even though the EU got rid of the import tax on photo cameras being able to record longer video.
... stuff like that is just comical, there are artificial limitations off all categories and technical difficulty, from something that's clearly just a single line of code to copying the same code from another camera, I honestly don't know why not more customers keep mail-bombing the support but at least I and some others will continue to do so.


----------



## Bdbtoys (Mar 25, 2021)

@randfee I only mentioned clog3 because you said 'and other software only features'. I did not realize you were after the clog2 over clog3 for the extra stop of DR... or that you even knew clog3 was coming. I was just pointing out a 'free' upgrade was coming to possibly point a light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Mar 25, 2021)

randfee said:


> what does that have to do with my statement?
> 
> yes of course I knew that C-Log 3 is supposed to come out for the R5. But why not C-Log2 as well, it's not like it would cost them a lot of work adding it. C-Log2 offers more dynamic range, that's just a fact. So why wouldn't they offer it but instead now announce it for the R5c? It's shameful.
> 
> ...


 This is the one.

Its crazy. Creators have never had more incentive to work on video and grow into a “cinema” camera and the entry is the $5500 S35 C70 just to not have a record limit .... Then you still have to buy a “photo”camera.

Man I love my Cameras, it just feels like your getting the short end of the stick and kind of takes the fun out of it when you want to try some of the new things, and the answer is go buy a cinema camera, when a thousand dollar Sony can shoot unlimited in Slog-3 powered by usb to two card slots and the R5 can’t do any of it. Lol


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Mar 25, 2021)

Profit007 said:


> It was DOUBLE the cost of the 1D and the only hardware difference was an internal heatsink (50 cents of worth of stamped alu).


If were are only going to consider RAW materials then the R5 should be like $20


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Mar 25, 2021)

Phillips88 said:


> The data rates are just insane. I’ve heard some people talk about proress being implemented. Is that even an option?


Canon only puts ProRes in the C700.
Since the Z CAM E2-M4 has it and only costs $1,500 I can only assume that it is not the cost of the license that is making Canon leave it off.
(I intentionally left off BMPCC 4K because I assume Black Magic must have some arrangement with Apple since they also make external recorders.)


----------



## TravelerNick (Mar 25, 2021)

Phillips88 said:


> I don’t mind the codec format, but more so the amount of space used to achieve that codec. The C70 shoots way less, but looks just as good, if not better in 4K. I think I said that right lol.
> 
> The data rates are just insane. I’ve heard some people talk about proress being implemented. Is that even an option?



Prores won't be smaller than HEVC. The whole point of HEVC is it's compact. 

I don't see a serious data rate difference between the C70 and the R5 when looking at apples to apples

XF-AVC 4096 x 2160 YCC422 @25p (10bit/410Mbps Intra)

4K (29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p): ALL-I Approx. 470 Mbps 

If anything the R5 might be lower at 25p.


----------



## TravelerNick (Mar 25, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> the issue is current graphics cards and drivers (as well as Adobe Premiere) do not support 10-bit 4:2:2 h.265 hardware acceleration. once they do, there will be no issue with R5 video editing. Because the lack of GPU acceleration of that format, it falls completely onto the CPU to decode and encode. Apple had the foresight to recognize that in their M1 chip and as a result, editing R5 footage (and it requires Davinci or Final Cut; thanks, Adobe) is easy.




That's not true anymore.

Resolve added support with version 17.1 on intel platforms. Adobe released what they called tigerlake features. I can only guess they meant 4.2.2 support.

Intel has supported 4.2.2. 10 bit 265 since Icelake IGPU. Tigerlake and Rocketlake add 12bit support.


----------



## TravelerNick (Mar 25, 2021)

Adobe Premiere Pro User Guide







helpx.adobe.com







> Performance improvements in H.264/HEVC encoding for TigerLake processors (11th generation Intel Core mobile processors).



Somebody want to ask Adobe what exactly that means?






Blackmagic Forum • View topic - Release of DaVinci Resolve Studio 17.1







forum.blackmagicdesign.com







> • H.265 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 Intel decode support in DaVinci Resolve Studio.
> • H.265 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 Intel encode support in DaVinci Resolve Studio.


----------



## dirtyvu (Mar 25, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> That's not true anymore.
> 
> Resolve added support with version 17.1 on intel platforms. Adobe released what they called tigerlake features. I can only guess they meant 4.2.2 support.
> 
> Intel has supported 4.2.2. 10 bit 265 since Icelake IGPU. Tigerlake and Rocketlake add 12bit support.


Yes, but no one uses the Intel GPU. The first thing most people do when they build or buy a PC is to put in an Nvidia or AMD GPU because overall they are much more powerful. I don't have any of those Intel processors because overall, they're much weaker than the latest AMD processors. I'm not sure who would take out their more powerful GPU just to use the internal Intel GPU. Plus, you need the software to recognize and use the features of the GPU. Just because Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, etc. support the codec doesn't mean the software supports it. If it's easy to flip back and forth between choosing which GPU to use for decoding/encode, that would be fantastic. *I would love to hear from Resolve users how fast it is to edit h.265 10-bit 4:2:2 EOS R5 footage with the latest Intel processors.*

And just so you know, these terms such as ice Lake, Tiger Lake, etc. refer to the project name that Intel had internally for that line of processors. Ice Lake is Intel's 10th generation processor line. Rocket Lake is the 11th generation. When you are writing about Adobe, it means that Adobe has added software support for those processors to utilize hardware decoding/encoding for (in this case) h.265 10-bit 4:2:2. I am very interested if this is the case as I haven't heard anyone reviewing how the new Intel Xe graphics do with editing this footage.

I'm not a Resolve user anyway. I'm completely familiar with Adobe Premiere and don't intend to switch.

And Adobe improving performance in h.264/HEVC... we'll wait to see what that means. Adobe is always slow with improving GPU support. With Lightroom, a ton of stuff is still only done on the CPU instead of the GPU. For example, if you're just encoding the picture, the GPU is used and the image is generated very quickly. But if you start doing multiple masks, it switches to a lot of CPU instead. I will give Adobe credit for slowly improving. They just don't improve as fast as other companies.

You're referring to a VERY recent Resolve update that was released only a couple weeks ago:

Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:56 am

What's new in DaVinci Resolve Studio 17.1
• Support for Apple Silicon based Mac OS systems.
• H.265 4:2:2 hardware decode support on Apple Silicon.
• H.265 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 Intel decode support in DaVinci Resolve Studio.
• H.265 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 Intel encode support in DaVinci Resolve Studio.
• Support for GPU decoding of RED clips in OpenCL processing mode.
• Option to always perform copy and paste actions on selected color nodes.
• General performance and stability improvements.


----------



## TravelerNick (Mar 25, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> Yes, but no one uses the Intel GPU. The first thing most people do when they build or buy a PC is to put in an Nvidia or AMD GPU because overall they are much more powerful. I don't have any of those Intel processors because overall, they're much weaker than the latest AMD processors. I'm not sure who would take out their more powerful GPU just to use the internal Intel GPU. Plus, you need the software to recognize and use the features of the GPU. Just because Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, etc. support the codec doesn't mean the software supports it. If it's easy to flip back and forth between choosing which GPU to use for decoding/encode, that would be fantastic. *I would love to hear from Resolve users how fast it is to edit h.265 10-bit 4:2:2 EOS R5 footage with the latest Intel processors.*



Hopefully next week I'll know.

You don't need to take out your GPU. You go into preferences. Set decode to use Intel Quicksync. The main GPU remains for all the other work.

I think you'd be surprised how many people over the years have used Quicksync. Both Premiere and Resolve supported hardware encoding much earlier for Quicksync than anything else. 

If you go to Puget Systems they have a test they did last year comparing an AMD 3900x with an Nvidia 3800 versus an Intel 10900k using Quick Sync. The test didn't factor in 4.2.2 but it'll give you an idea how fast Quick Sync decode can be.


----------



## dirtyvu (Mar 25, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> Hopefully next week I'll know.
> 
> You don't need to take out your GPU. You go into preferences. Set decode to use Intel Quicksync. The main GPU remains for all the other work.
> 
> ...



Can you point to an article? I found this article (https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...264-H-265-Hardware-Encoding-Performance-1778/) but it doesn't detail any 10-bit 4:2:2 decoding/encoding. Intel QuickSync didn't look good compared to the other cards.


----------



## TravelerNick (Mar 25, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> Can you point to an article? I found this article (https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...264-H-265-Hardware-Encoding-Performance-1778/) but it doesn't detail any 10-bit 4:2:2 decoding/encoding. Intel QuickSync didn't look good compared to the other cards.



The test is from last year and doesn't deal with 4.2.2. If they're doing that test they would likely be under NDA until next week. Here is the test I was talking about









Premiere Pro GPU Decoding for H.264 and HEVC media - is it faster?


In the latest version of Premiere Pro, Adobe has added support for GPU-based H264/H.265 (HEVC) hardware decoding with both NVIDIA and AMD GPUs. How well does this feature work, and is it faster than the previous hardware decoding that utilized Intel Quick Sync?




www.pugetsystems.com







> As a part of our testing, one of the things we wanted to look at in particular was how GPU decoding compared to the Intel Quick Sync decoding that has been a part of Premiere Pro for a long time. While Quick Sync did appear to have a slight edge with H.264 media in some situations, GPU decoding had a similar edge for HEVC footage. In the end, our conclusion is that GPU and Quick Sync decoding are pretty much on par with each other.



*IF *we get similar performance with 4.2.2 that solves the R5 playback issue.


----------



## Phillips88 (Mar 25, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> Prores won't be smaller than HEVC. The whole point of HEVC is it's compact.
> 
> I don't see a serious data rate difference between the C70 and the R5 when looking at apples to apples
> 
> ...


I should have clarified. All formats on the C70 work flawlessly in premier pro. The R5 needs proress transcoding or proxies.
But the c70 4k120 is a lot smaller than the R5.


----------



## dirtyvu (Mar 25, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> The test is from last year and doesn't deal with 4.2.2. If they're doing that test they would likely be under NDA until next week. Here is the test I was talking about
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I can't wait to see some results!

I did see this in the comments from a user: 

Thanks for this test. I think what's missing here is the look at the situation for 4k material with 10-bit 4:2:2 colorsampling in h.265, which you find in more and more cameras. And all NVIDIA Geforce GPU's - even the new ones - do not support hardware accelaration of 4:2:2 material. They support 10-bit 4:2:0 (like the mavic pro 2 has), or even 4:4:4 but not 4:2:2. And also Quick-Sync only support h.265 4:2:2 10-bit in it's latest mobile processors (Ice & Tiger Lake) but in the desktop processors only with the Rocket Lake generation which will come out next year. So you have to keep that in mind, when planning a new Editing PC. What I do not know: what about the professional NVIDIA GPUs and in generell AMD GPUs. Maybe you have other informations about that.


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## TravelerNick (Mar 26, 2021)

That's the problem nothing else does this on PCs. Nvidia has published their decode/encode chart and nothing for anything they've made. Not consumer. Not Quadro. AMD I haven't found anything similar.


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## dirtyvu (Mar 26, 2021)

I think more people need to write amd and Nvidia to request support for 4:2:2 10bit h.265 support​


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 26, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> That's not true anymore.
> 
> Resolve added support with version 17.1 on intel platforms. Adobe released what they called tigerlake features. I can only guess they meant 4.2.2 support.
> 
> Intel has supported 4.2.2. 10 bit 265 since Icelake IGPU. Tigerlake and Rocketlake add 12bit support.


There are also quite a few more lakes than that.








media-driver/README.md at master · intel/media-driver


Contribute to intel/media-driver development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


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## TravelerNick (Mar 27, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> There are also quite a few more lakes than that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But those three are the only ones currently supporting 4.2.2


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 27, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> But those three are the only ones currently supporting 4.2.2


There are only 3 that support HEVC 12-bit 4:2:2 but a few more support HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2.
Namely Ice Lake, Elkhart Lake, and Jasper Lake.


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## TravelerNick (Mar 27, 2021)

The last two are small embedded chips aren't they? You might find one in a NUC or something .


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## TravelerNick (Mar 27, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> I think more people need to write amd and Nvidia to request support for 4:2:2 10bit h.265 support​



Even if they did that would be for the next version of the GPU. It needs to be on the hardware.


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## dirtyvu (Mar 27, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> Even if they did that would be for the next version of the GPU. It needs to be on the hardware.



It doesn't. It's just an algorithm that they need to put in. All the GPUs from AMD and Nvidia are fully programmable. You yourself can write code that specifically tells the GPU what to do. When you write code, you have to think about what your code is trying to do and target the device that will execute that code. Repetitive math calculations are best for a GPU because that's what the massive parallelization of GPUs do best. that's why GPUs are used for graphics. You have to do 60 fps of some video game. If you're doing AI calculations or physics calculations, a CPU might be best for that. You could try to program a software program to run 100% on the GPU (it would run like crap because a lot of types of calculations don't fit how a GPU works very well). Adobe's old code base targeted the CPU because back when Photoshop was first invented, there were no dedicated GPUs and no GPUs that were fast at doing this repetitive math. It's taken a long time for Adobe to migrate more and more code to the GPU. The GPU is not the panacea for all code either. Adobe shouldn't move everything to the GPU.

Companies like AMD and Nvidia target their big demographics. Gamers, cryptocurrency, research and render facilities, etc. The worst case scenario for Canon is... since h.266 has been published, what if Nvidia and AMD go straight to supporting that and never supporting 4:2:2 10bit h.265. That means R5 footage will never be accelerated. However, since they know that the M1 chip can accelerate it, that might have raised enough awareness for them to support it. And good luck seeing the R5 updated to support h.266. That would have to be the R5 Mark II or Mark III.


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## TravelerNick (Mar 27, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> It doesn't. It's just an algorithm that they need to put in. All the GPUs from AMD and Nvidia are fully programmable.











NVIDIA VIDEO CODEC SDK


NVIDIA Video Codec SDK A comprehensive set of APIs including high-performance tools, samples and documentation for hardware accelerated video encode and decode on Windows and Linux. Get Started NVIDIA GeForce Now is made possible by leveraging NVENC in the datacenter and streaming the result to...




developer.nvidia.com







> NVIDIA GPUs contain one or more *hardware-based decoder and encoder(s) (separate from the CUDA cores)* which provides fully-accelerated hardware-based video decoding and encoding for several popular codecs. With decoding/encoding offloaded, the graphics engine and the CPU are free for other operations.




Okay I admit it's been a century since I took a programming course but implies to me that decoding isn't done on the general purpose GPU but on the decode chip.


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## dirtyvu (Mar 27, 2021)

No gpu is general purpose. What you're quoting refers to how they dedicate some silicon to api-directed simple tasks where you can write a simple command and let the hardware do the rest (in this case, video encoding or decoding), leaving the remaining hardware available for processing. Imagine writing a video game where you need to render the frame but you also need to embed a video being played inside it (e.g., a video game character tapping on a monitor to watch some key game plot point). Inside of making the programmer write or find code to embed this video within the frame, they can write a few commands to the api for this part. We have to be careful of the distinction between software and hardware. In the old days, software essentially meant you wrote code for the cpu. When dedicated gpus came around, we moved code to it and called it hardware accelerated because we now had hardware dedicated to accelerating the code rather than have the cpu do everything. 

In any case Nvidia and amd need to get on it!


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 28, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> In any case Nvidia and amd need to get on it!


Finally, a reason to buy Intel again.
I think Nvidia and AMD are too busy counting their cryptocurrency mining money to care.
Somehow Intel fell asleep in both CPU and GPU but they are coming back.
Better late than never.


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## gmon750 (Mar 31, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> No. It’s getting the most out of the camera that you have with you. The sensor, body, and ecosystem are amazing with the R5. The silly, it’s not a cinema camera statement is just as old as the overheating commentary. It’s the software that consistently points to Canon missing how people would like to use the “DSLR” bodies.
> 
> Record limits, only recording to one slot, Clog2-3, hard to edit video codecs(no issue for me,M1), custom modes on the R6, for some reason switching to micro HDMI, the ibis wobble shooting wide, no control over ibis vs is being on, no 120fps In 1080, photo settings being video settings, no 10bit without shooting in log, I would love an auto white balance lock in both modes.....
> 
> ...


There is no magical one-size-fits-all camera. Many people purchased the R5 to do stills photography, and that is its primary strength. It added 8K video more as a side-benefit, but a certain segment had too high an expectation. 8K is NOT a 2021 camera feature. That you say it is does not make it true.


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## dirtyvu (Mar 31, 2021)

gmon750 said:


> There is no magical one-size-fits-all camera. Many people purchased the R5 to do stills photography, and that is its primary strength. It added 8K video more as a side-benefit, but a certain segment had too high an expectation. 8K is NOT a 2021 camera feature. That you say it is does not make it true.


The latest firmware shows they meant business for the r5 to be an 8k machine. A lot more features and settings now. And I'll argue that the 8k of the r5 beats the 8k of the a1 and the 4k of the a7s3.


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 31, 2021)

gmon750 said:


> There is no magical one-size-fits-all camera. Many people purchased the R5 to do stills photography, and that is its primary strength. It added 8K video more as a side-benefit, but a certain segment had too high an expectation. 8K is NOT a 2021 camera feature. That you say it is does not make it true.


Primary strength? It’s not a character in a video game. It is either capable of completing at task or not. 8k‘s problem in general is that It doesn’t seem capable in that department over long periods.

There is no one size fits all camera, agreed.

8k is really not a big deal to me or most shooters . It’s actually one of the silliest conversation pieces, “stills” camera with 8k video, which is a highly specialized utility within the workflow of video.....why attract 8k video shooters. 

it just seems to be a weird feature to add to a camera that Seems to also be sure to separate it from “cinema” cameras. Who would need 8k but not the other features of a video hybrid camera... seems short sided.


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## tron (Apr 5, 2021)

R5 has 8K but it has not a priority setting for Release vs Focus in Servo AF mode just like many previous FF and ctop models have (5DsR, 5D4, 7D2, 90D to name a few). What a joke! Just like the focusing behind the subject when that is small or the time it takes to "wake up" when it is in sleep mode. It is these 3 things that bother me (the last two of which caused missing shots). Also the spot AF equivalent is a joke compated to Canon DSLR's and Nikon's one point AF efficiency (when using it in low light situations). So mainly a stills camera but lacking in many stills camera features...


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## gmon750 (Apr 6, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> The latest firmware shows they meant business for the r5 to be an 8k machine. A lot more features and settings now. And I'll argue that the 8k of the r5 beats the 8k of the a1 and the 4k of the a7s3.


I agree with you on that. It still doesn't mean that 8K is (or should be) the primary focus of the R5. Some folks here on this thread are really having issues accepting that. Whether it's Sony, Canon, or someone other company but I think 8K will be better on next-generation CPU's that what they're running on right now and that's okay.

I don't think I've ever used my Canon 5DM3's video mode. Doesn't mean others do, it just means to me that there are better dedicated cameras that do the job better, even when my 5D was new.


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## Rocksthaman (Apr 7, 2021)

gmon750 said:


> I agree with you on that. It still doesn't mean that 8K is (or should be) the primary focus of the R5. Some folks here on this thread are really having issues accepting that. Whether it's Sony, Canon, or someone other company but I think 8K will be better on next-generation CPU's that what they're running on right now and that's okay.
> 
> I don't think I've ever used my Canon 5DM3's video mode. Doesn't mean others do, it just means to me that there are better dedicated cameras that do the job better, even when my 5D was new.



8k as a feature is something that attracts the wrong people. Yes, yes, it’s a photo camera and all that. But to include 8k even marketing it on a small scale, makes for a situation where the feature doesn’t match the customer.

I don’t know of a photographer or novice videographer who plan to extensively 8k , even for cropping, that would not be using “cinema” features as well. I’m mostly speaking to the same ole same ole, unlimited recording, clog 2, 120 with sound, custom modes on r6, auto white balance lock, is w/o ibis, usb power and no ibis wobble.

The hardware and skill set to utilize 8k doesn’t match users that would not use the other “cinema” features in other cameras. Unless this camera was only meant to be used by former Canon photographer focused users , the response should not be surprising. I get to use quite a few cameras and the One thing about the two newest cameras is that coming back to Canon you have to think about the things you can’t do.....Zebras Canon, Zebras


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 8, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> The latest firmware shows they meant business for the r5 to be an 8k machine. A lot more features and settings now. And I'll argue that the 8k of the r5 beats the 8k of the a1 and the 4k of the a7s3.


8K RAW and 4:2:2 > 8K 4:2:0


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## transpo1 (Apr 10, 2021)

amorse said:


> Absolutely agreed. Active cooling is a hard pass for me for me if it means reduced weather sealing. This is positive though - Canon obviously sees that there is a market here which isn't perfectly aligned to the needs of traditional 5D users, which the R5 was aimed at. Having an R5c and an R5 allow flexibility for potential buyers to balance their needs without compromising their use case.


Late to this conversation but totally agree. I've been very tough on Canon in the past and have to defend them here. They gave everybody what they wanted with the R5 and 8K and were willing to take a hit on the overheating issue (which they knew about) in order to satisfy the clamor for better video options. Now, they're continuing to market to filmmakers with what we've always wanted: 4K (and now 8K) still cameras with cutting edge video features. I haven't bought into the R system yet but if the R5c holds up to the rumored specs, I foresee myself doing so in 2022. 

Congrats to Canon for seeing the light and meeting the needs of a new generation of stills and video artists.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 10, 2021)

transpo1 said:


> Late to this conversation but totally agree. I've been very tough on Canon in the past and have to defend them here. They gave everybody what they wanted with the R5 and 8K and were willing to take a hit on the overheating issue (which they knew about) in order to satisfy the clamor for better video options. Now, they're continuing to market to filmmakers with what we've always wanted: 4K (and now 8K) still cameras with cutting edge video features. I haven't bought into the R system yet but if the R5c holds up to the rumored specs, I foresee myself doing so in 2022.
> 
> Congrats to Canon for seeing the light and meeting the needs of a new generation of stills and video artists.


Any R5c is going to have worse video specs than the R5, so if that is what you are after ang have been criticizing Canon for not doing you are the typical forum pundit. I need this feature, there you go then here is a new camera with that feature, oh no I’m going to wait a while....


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Any R5c is going to have worse video specs than the R5, so if that is what you are after ang have been criticizing Canon for not doing you are the typical forum pundit. I need this feature, there you go then here is a new camera with that feature, oh no I’m going to wait a while....


The name R5c is made up.
The entire point of the rumor is an R5 with active cooling.
I do not think there is as much demand for an R6c.
Since I am happy with my R5 and plan to get a C70 no matter what, I am not really interested in an R5c. (I will not rule out buying a used one in the future).
I would be interested in an R6c.
I would also be interested in a 5Dc or M6c.


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## transpo1 (Apr 30, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Any R5c is going to have worse video specs than the R5, so if that is what you are after ang have been criticizing Canon for not doing you are the typical forum pundit. I need this feature, there you go then here is a new camera with that feature, oh no I’m going to wait a while....


Is it really going to have worse specs? Why are they labeling it a “C” model then? According to rumors on this forum, it’s actually going to have a slightly bigger body with active cooling to address overheating, along with all the same recording specs. I call that “better video specs.”

Purchase decisions are about more than a camera being released, they’re also about individual circumstances and wanting the most for one’s money, so if the rumors are true, I’d recommend video focused people wait for the R5C unless they desperately need something now. Most of us already have cameras we’re currently using so there’s no rush. 

Sounds like you’re just a typical forum pundit who can’t stand that Canon’s back in the video game and who likes to complain about people honestly discussing the pros and cons of products (which is what forums are all about, after all).

All the best,


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 30, 2021)

transpo1 said:


> f the rumors are true, I’d recommend video focused people wait for the R5C


However, if the rumors are not true then the wait would be in vain.
We do know R3 is coming so maybe waiting for that makes sense.
I already have an R5 so I am more interested in the Ninja V+ right now.
Even if it never overheats to the Ninja I feel Canon RAW > ProRes RAW so R5c would still be superior even if it does not have internal ND.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 30, 2021)

transpo1 said:


> Is it really going to have worse specs? Why are they labeling it a “C” model then? According to rumors on this forum, it’s actually going to have a slightly bigger body with active cooling to address overheating, along with all the same recording specs. I call that “better video specs.”
> 
> Purchase decisions are about more than a camera being released, they’re also about individual circumstances and wanting the most for one’s money, so if the rumors are true, I’d recommend video focused people wait for the R5C unless they desperately need something now. Most of us already have cameras we’re currently using so there’s no rush.
> 
> ...


No that was a typo. Obviously an R5c would have better video specs than the R5, maybe the native 8k over HDMI for the new Atomos Ninja V+ amongst other video goodies?

I meant any high resolution R5 variant, like the 5DS/r, would have worse video specs than an R5.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 30, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I meant any high resolution R5 variant, like the 5DS/r, would have worse video specs than an R5.


Or 12K.
Why should Black Magic have all of the fun?


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## mariuspavel (Jun 11, 2021)

Do we have a piece of new information regarding the Canon R5c? I am very interested in the date of the launch.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 11, 2021)

mariuspavel said:


> Do we have a piece of new information regarding the Canon R5c? I am very interested in the date of the launch.


It seems like any information would just steal the thunder from the R3 but I could see Canon leaking info if people are disappointed after they release the resolution of the R3.


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## Franklyok (Jun 11, 2021)

Will this be netflix approved?


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 12, 2021)

Franklyok said:


> Will this be netflix approved?


That is a pretty good question.
It really comes down to whether Canon adds timecode in/out like the C70.


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## Austintatious (Jun 24, 2021)

It's June 24th 2021. Is this considered late 2021? I haven't heard or seen anything about the R5c.. Was this rumor really just a mistake and in actuality it was the R3?
Please let me know! I would love to buy an R5c!


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## cayenne (Jun 24, 2021)

Austintatious said:


> It's June 24th 2021. Is this considered late 2021? I haven't heard or seen anything about the R5c.. Was this rumor really just a mistake and in actuality it was the R3?
> Please let me know! I would love to buy an R5c!


I'd consider it mid 2021.....6th month and all...half the year gone.


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## Austintatious (Jun 24, 2021)

cayenne said:


> I'd consider it mid 2021.....6th month and all...half the year gone.


oh yeah  but still where is the news!? haha


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