# Camera for keen 9 year old.



## paul13walnut5 (Aug 18, 2013)

Okay, not quite sure where to post this, mods please replace if necessary.

Nephew showing a wee aptitude with a camera, considering getting him something with manual settings should he get more keen.

Couple of considerations:

Price: no more than £100.
Size & weight: he's 9
Control: needs full auto to full manual.

So, either a new basic powershot, a used bridge or rebel...

I used to use a dimage a2, but wasn't great even by contemporaneous standards at anything other than base ISO.
However has decent lens coverage, manual controls and is cheap.

EOS 300d or 350d. Cheap, smallish. Decent sized sensor so can get an idea about depth of field (if he gets into it)

Or any other ideas. Strict budget. He has a destructive little bro. No 5d3 + 35L suggestions purleaaaase!

Don't want to buy something too good just now in case its just a flash in the pan. Have you given a camera to your kids to learn on? Don't want to dampen his enthusiasm either...

Cheers in advance.


PS. Just edited, will need to stop using my iphone, I'm surprised anybody understood my question! Many thanks for answers so far.


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## Hannes (Aug 18, 2013)

Keep an eye on WEX used section, I picked up a 400D body for £79 from them and it looked basically new. It would be a great place to start and to grow from, admittedly once you've added a kit lens it'll be more than £100 but not by much, I've seen the kit lenses go for less than £40


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## bholliman (Aug 18, 2013)

A used Rebel or lower end DSLR would be better for learning manual controls. As you pointed out, its difficult to get shallow DOF with any small sensor PowerShots. That said, you can learn composition and develop a photographers eye with any camera.


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## jdramirez (Aug 18, 2013)

here is what I did for my nine year old daughter.

I bought a 50d as a back up for $325. but it was a little big for her hands. I sold it for 420 or so. I then bought a xti & a 60mm efs macro lens for $325. I sold the lens for 310 making the body $15.

I let her mount my fisheye, but that didn't seem safe, so I bought her a 18-55mm is mkii for $55. so she now has as nice of a Sep as I did when I bought my xs five years ago. she likes it, but she also doesn't seem to care.


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## Jim Saunders (Aug 18, 2013)

I'd suggest a used Rebel also, he might as well learn the controls and menus he'll likely see if he stays with it.

Jim


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## tolusina (Aug 19, 2013)

Pentax K 1000, 50mm f2.0, several rolls each of ISO 100 and 400. Offer to pay for processing and printing if you like, see what he does with it, go from there.

Of course I'm old enough that I still think everyone should learn to drive with a stick shift. That no longer happens, most people go through life never learning to shift for themselves.


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## NormanBates (Aug 19, 2013)

Second hand DSLR. Even the oldest ones or the lowest-end will be much better for learning than anything with a small sensor.


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## brad-man (Aug 19, 2013)

I agree with a Rebel. I have an XT that would be perfect for a beginner (since it was _my_ first DSLR). They will take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. Couple that with one of the cheaper macros (Canon or otherwise) and you have the ideal kit for a little boy. They like bugs


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## GmwDarkroom (Aug 19, 2013)

Used no matter what. If the hobby really sticks, then ink about something more.

I think that's a good idea for anything a kid expresses interest in unless you've got the money to burn. The used item can usually be turned over for nearly what you paid if the child looses interest.


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## Valvebounce (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi Paul 
What about something like this, 
http://www.wightbay.com/cameras-tv-dvd-electricals/cannon-eos-1100d/4809564 
I know you said STRICT budget, but if I'm correct it has the help menu with the aperture changes dof, speed freezes etc information which might be real helpful for a learner and it has kit lens. It has been hanging around for a while, might even drop a few quid to shift it?
If he likes photography and looks after it it will see him a bit further than a 300! If he busts it other than by genuine accident finish the job with his head? ;D the last bit for the politically correct really is meant tongue in cheek so don't bother I'm already wearing nomex!
My experience suggests that if the interest is genuine great care will be taken and true sadness at the slightest mark displayed.
You might tell him that if he shows anything less than 110% respect for it you will reposes it before he breaks it?

Just some thoughts. 

Cheers Graham.


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## verysimplejason (Aug 19, 2013)

+1 to old rebels. A 300D or 350D + kit lens sounds good.


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## cuzza (Aug 19, 2013)

I would suggest you look a a dead brand, say Olympus 4/3rds such as a E420, that way it is dirt cheap. If he shows talent than sell it and buy a suitable Canon. The advantage of the olympus is that they are a bit smaller and lighre (I think my original one was lighter than the SL1) and they sell so cheap because nobody wants to but into a dead system - but it cannot get any worse for you. 

Pentax DSLRs also work with old (and cheap) pentax glass so they could be a good choice.

For Canon it does not really matter just get the cheapest but bear in mind even the cheap ones will keep getting cheaper as Canon keep bringing out new models - The plus I am guessing is you may be a Canon owner yourself since you are on here so they could be sharing opportunities.

As to glass, if you can I advise a fixed prime 1/ so they can learn about depth of field and 2/ it really does help you learn. I went 6 months with a 50mm only on my canon and it is still the lens I leave mounted in the bag even though my kit has grown a lot. You have lots of DOF option, fast focus and one less thing (zoom) to think about adjusting in a good photo. 

I know the use a prime only advise has big opionions on both sides but I can say it helped me greatly and I am glad I chose to do it (plus it is dirt cheap for shallow DOF)


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 19, 2013)

No specific advice on models, other than having full controls available so he can learn about exposure. 

When I got the PowerShot S100, the S95 went into my wife's purse - and didn't get used, the iPhone was her default choice. A couple of months ago, I reclaimed the S95 from the bottom of her purse and gave it to my 5 year old daughter, who'd been asking for a camera (and I got the iPad SD reader so she can directly transfer images to her iPad).

Turns out she's got a great eye for subject and composition. Yesterday, she was out in the back yard shooting pictures, and she came up to me and said, "Daddy, I want to learn what these other buttons do...the camera is making my pictures too bright, and I want to learn to make them _darker_." My 5-year old wants to get out of Auto/P-mode and take control of her pictures. Color me proud! ;D


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## alexanderferdinand (Aug 19, 2013)

A used x00D will perfect do the job.
Kit objectiv.
All of these cameras are faaar better then my first one, "cropped" film, all automatic, didnt really like it.


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## dhachey77 (Aug 19, 2013)

OK, good question. IMHO, don't get him a camera, get him a good book on photography. Take him to art museums and teach him the rules of composition, the role of light and subject. Discuss with him what makes a good photograph. Then share with him your camera, and gently critique the images he takes. Once he develops an 'eye', then work on the mechanics of taking a photograph. These are all mistakes I made with my kids. I personally think it's better to share the experience with a child, rather than turn him loose with a camera and let him wonder around with no focus (or guidance). You will both be better off for the experience. 

Cheers, ...Dave


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

dhachey77 said:


> OK, good question. IMHO, don't get him a camera, get him a good book on photography. Take him to art museums and teach him the rules of composition, the role of light and subject. Discuss with him what makes a good photograph. Then share with him your camera, and gently critique the images he takes. Once he develops an 'eye', then work on the mechanics of taking a photograph. These are all mistakes I made with my kids. I personally think it's better to share the experience with a child, rather than turn him loose with a camera and let him wonder around with no focus (or guidance). You will both be better off for the experience.
> 
> Cheers, ...Dave



Get him a book about sex while your are at it. Theory is more important than practice and implementation.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

And maybe get him the DMV manual on driving... because it is important to know all of the traffic laws and the theory behind the three point turn and parallel parking.


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## paul13walnut5 (Aug 19, 2013)

Ok ok ok, where is the reset to sensible button?!

Some great ideas, and I do get it that a camera on its own does not a photographer make. I would like him to experience the joy of making and sharing his own images ahead of anything else, so rebel with kit lens seems ideal.
Its a marathon hopefully, not a sprint.

When I was 9 I guess i was starting to want a little independence and autonomy, i dont want to thwart his interest with my enthusiasm or by taking control off him.

I think a rebel is just the thing to get the shutterbug biting!

.


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## Sporgon (Aug 19, 2013)

Personally I dint think I would get a nine year old a dslr. I think it's important for kids to have something to aspire to, and starting a nine year old off with a camera which is more or less the same as competent adult is going to be using may not be a good thing. 

I think I would go for something small and light that has some sort of view finder and proper control.

And Paul, I'm just the same on an iPhone; can't spell on !


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## AudioGlenn (Aug 19, 2013)

jdramirez said:


> And maybe get him the DMV manual on driving... because it is important to know all of the traffic laws and the theory behind the three point turn and parallel parking.



Wow...all that sarcasm from the guy who can't figure out what lens he needs. Maybe you're the one we should be recomending some theory books to!

I see nothing wrong with suggesting a different approach to see if the kid really has interest in the topic. Although i do disagree. I think a 9 yr old would stay interested with the "toy" more so than with the book. I vote for the used rebel with a kit lens.


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## candyman (Aug 19, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Okay, not quite sure where to post this, mods please replace if necessary.
> 
> Nephew showing a wee aptitude with a camera, considering getting him something with manual settings should he get more keen.
> 
> ...


When I started out in infromation technology, the best thing that helped me was a PC at home. I practised everyday and very soon I knew all about configurations, limitations, optimazations and hardware etc etc.
So having the tool is the best way to learn. Sure you need some theoratical background as well but that can be the next step. You better understand was is written when you already have some hands-on experience. My 7 old year daughter is using my very old canon powershot G5 (has auto, av, tv and manual mode). A good thing to start. She actually chooses ery interesting subjects. So is developing the photographers eye. I would not recommend a rebel (might be too large and heavy) but something like the powershot (older model than the current one)


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## xps (Aug 19, 2013)

Maybe this helps you:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5154059852/best-digital-cameras-for-kids


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## sanj (Aug 19, 2013)

I am in Africa and had to post on this even with low low internet. 

Any camera with manual control, fixed lens would be the way.

Most important: After buying the camera, back off!!!! No theory, no rules, no 'how to'. 
He MUST find his own expression...... Pls do not kill that with rules and such. 

Cheers.


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## sanj (Aug 19, 2013)

dhachey77 said:


> OK, good question. IMHO, don't get him a camera, get him a good book on photography. Take him to art museums and teach him the rules of composition, the role of light and subject. Discuss with him what makes a good photograph. Then share with him your camera, and gently critique the images he takes. Once he develops an 'eye', then work on the mechanics of taking a photograph. These are all mistakes I made with my kids. I personally think it's better to share the experience with a child, rather than turn him loose with a camera and let him wonder around with no focus (or guidance). You will both be better off for the experience.
> 
> Cheers, ...Dave



Disagree entirely. I feel his own way of seeing things first. Then later see what others have done. Please! 
We want our kids to have their own vision which will transcend ours. We want unique artists rather than our clones. IMO.


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## bholliman (Aug 19, 2013)

When my oldest son was 7 (he is 14 now) he showed some interest in photography. We had an old Kodak 1mp digital camera, circa 1999 that hadn't been touched in years. My wife had won it in a contest, but it never got much use - it took dreadful pictures compared with the Pentax film camera she had at that time. 

The Kodak was an ideal learners camera for a kid this age. He took a few hundred pictures over several months, some showing some interesting creativity, but it ultimately ended up falling into a pond (while he was trying to take a picture of water spiders) and that was the end of it. He received an iPod later and used the camera on that until he got a cell phone. Still no additional interest in photography however.




cuzza said:


> I would suggest you look a a dead brand, say Olympus 4/3rds such as a E420, that way it is dirt cheap.
> 
> As to glass, if you can I advise a fixed prime 1/ so they can learn about depth of field and 2/ it really does help you learn.



These are both great suggestions. Dead brand gear is very cheap and and some of it is pretty competant.

Back in the film days I spent my first 18 months of photography with just a 50mm lens. You can do a great deal with a single (normal range) prime!


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

AudioGlenn said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > And maybe get him the DMV manual on driving... because it is important to know all of the traffic laws and the theory behind the three point turn and parallel parking.
> ...



I still don't know about the lens... I might jump back into the macro pool with another 100L.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

sanj said:


> dhachey77 said:
> 
> 
> > OK, good question. IMHO, don't get him a camera, get him a good book on photography. Take him to art museums and teach him the rules of composition, the role of light and subject. Discuss with him what makes a good photograph. Then share with him your camera, and gently critique the images he takes. Once he develops an 'eye', then work on the mechanics of taking a photograph. These are all mistakes I made with my kids. I personally think it's better to share the experience with a child, rather than turn him loose with a camera and let him wonder around with no focus (or guidance). You will both be better off for the experience.
> ...



there is no right way to take a picture. sure you want a result that is pleasing with good composition, but we all grow into a style over time.

being technically proficient is different than being creative. but to have an idea of what you want to shoot and then having the skills to make it happen are when the real magic happens.


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## Jim O (Aug 19, 2013)

Do people still parallel park? I thought all them fancy new fangled cars with the video cameras built in just did it for 'em.

I learned to drive, and to parallel park, in Manhattan. I can still get into a very tight spot that an automatic system probably wouldn't even attempt.

Seriously, how about a Canon AE-1 program? It goes from full auto to full manual. It's easier to use than it is to parallel park. A used copy with a 50/1.8 is well within your budget, even if you decide to add in a 155A, and you can use the rest for multiple rolls of film and processing/printing. If he keeps up with it, he can earn more film, or a used Rebel. You have a car that needs regular washing and waxing?


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## paul13walnut5 (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks all.

I just want a camera that will work for him just now (full auto) and grow with him if he gets more into it.

I am steering towards the rebel.

I take the point about the dead systems, such as 4/3rds, but if I get him a canon then when he's a 13 year old who is right into it he can adapt seamlessly to a current camera.

Content to let him play around with it, get used to holding a camera, using a viewfinder rather than an LCD, all the other stuff will follow if he bites.


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## unfocused (Aug 19, 2013)

Paul,

I think your instincts are good. An inexpensive Rebel with the kit lens (preferably with IS) is a good starting place. He can start it on "P" and jpg and then go from there. 

Film is dead and it is expensive. Why give him something where his parents have to constantly spend money on supplies and he has to wait for hours or days to see the results? This isn't a character building exercise, it's a toy to see if it might grow into a hobby or maybe a profession (better scratch that last part, there are no jobs and his parents may never forgive you for condemning him to a life of poverty.)

The only hesitation I have is due to the interchangeable lens. I kind of cringe when I think of the damage a nine-year-old boy could do when he figures out how to take the lens off.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Paul,
> 
> I think your instincts are good. An inexpensive Rebel with the kit lens (preferably with IS) is a good starting place. He can start it on "P" and jpg and then go from there.
> 
> ...



I tell my little girl that we never leave the body exposed and we always have a cap our a lens on. so far she has adhered which is more than some adults I see do.


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## Drizzt321 (Aug 19, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Film is dead and it is expensive. Why give him something where his parents have to constantly spend money on supplies and he has to wait for hours or days to see the results?



I object! Film isn't (quite) dead yet.

That said, I agree an older cheap digital is the way to go. Processing & scanning fees really add up if you shoot a lot. With digital he'll have the ins4ant feedback that is really helpful for learning, and no ongoing fees.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

Drizzt321 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Film is dead and it is expensive. Why give him something where his parents have to constantly spend money on supplies and he has to wait for hours or days to see the results?
> ...



is film more like a zombie, a vampire, or Frankenstein?

if I were to guess, I'd say a vampire because it sucks you dry in a bad way over a long period of time.


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## TBenson (Aug 19, 2013)

My kids would have quickly destroyed an SLR. And then what good is a broken camera?

A few years ago I was lucky to find two Olympus Stylus 800's at a yard sale for $15 each. They turned out to be great little cameras, especially for young children who are not always gentle. 
- sturdy all-metal body
- weatherproof
- auto-lenscover on power off
- f2.8-4.9 lens, 38-114mm range (full frame equiv.)
- Program, Aperature, and Shutter priority with Exposure Compensation (no full manual through)
- 8 megapixels and 640x480 video 

Only bad part was that they take xD memory cards. ???


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## paul13walnut5 (Aug 19, 2013)

I know there is a chance it may just get wrecked. But that would also potentially happen to a £100 compact camera as well. Thats why the £100 bit is vital.

My thinking is that if it seems a bit more serious than a toy then he may treat it more carefully. And a broken SLR is about the same amount of use as a broken compact.. I think I'll stay positive and get him a rebel.

I wish I had digital when I was learning. Not going to consign him to film, all other film vs digtial debates aside, digital is immediate. Results are tangible within the attention span of a nine year old. If he also starts to cotton onto the different numbers then he can see what worked and what didn't, can't really do that with film.

Ok, been useful, thank you are for the perspectives.


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## TommyLee (Aug 19, 2013)

Hannes said:


> Keep an eye on WEX used section, I picked up a 400D body for £79 from them and it looked basically new. It would be a great place to start and to grow from, admittedly once you've added a kit lens it'll be more than £100 but not by much, I've seen the kit lenses go for less than £40



I believe this is right on....................
this sounds ...as close as one could get to the budget and still have real camera control...

an (near) obsolete slr... but enough to try the features ...set things etc....


for sure done breakdown and 'project'... and get some new cropper or a midrange slr and a good lens....not yet... 
as you said.... try the small path FIRST

spoken as a grandfather who would LIKE to see the kids - grandkids get 'hooked'....

they will tell you if they NEED more

TOM

======

I ......ALSO.....discovered my girlfriend did NOT WANT a big camera ...just one in purse...
doh!..... THAT.....is projecting our vision.... not everyone is a photojournalist-geek

so....go slow...


of course...
IMO


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## Jules (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi,
Good old rebel with kit lens is a great learning tool if he shows some willingness to go beyond compact stuff ...

My 8y old goddaughter was playing with my 40D every time i was visiting her (she had a VTech Kidizoom 1st, then played with her parents compact...) : gave her my old compact Casio Exilim S500 as a 1st camera for 7th bday, but it lasted only 3 months and died peacefully (old diaphragm not closing properly under TX sun => overexposed pics ... natural noble death after 7 years), so i bought her the entry level Nikon coolpix L25 (shame on me but Canon 1st price was more expensive  ) ... 
She now uses it quite properly and even started teaching her young 5y old bro how to use it... flash fill, framing, timer for group portraits... so after 1 year i gave her my old Rebel 400D this summer, which she uses with her parents old film kit lens 28-80mm and 75-300mm (we bought that with the Rebel2000 in the old days)... 
She is really happy to have an optical viewfinder like me ("far better than the screen under the sun"), to be able to change lens (without going into details i told her that she could not get wide angle but she said for that she would still use the compact : what she wanted was the zoom "to see far away" even if she finds the big one to be a bit heavy and only shoots 2 or 3 burst with it... but her hands have a firm grip one on the side and the other below the lens)... She wanted to be able to control the flash, so she went from the green square full auto to P, then she wanted to know why some of her pics were blurred, so i explained her to stay beyond 1/2xfocal (easier than 1,6 and keeps a bit of margin): she is even happy to do a bit of maths (she loves maths) and she uses Tv mode and pumps up ISO when it blinks ... Next will be Av mode but she already asked for it: she wanted to do portraits like me, so i told her i would explain later (bit too much in 3 days) but that she could use the "portrait" mode for that ... she was quite happy with the results ...

=> let him do trial and error, then after some time and shots, review some of them with him (the ones he is the most proud of) and ask him what he would want to improve, and then give him some hints ... then let him experiment again ... this way he will learn what he wants and not listen to you with tons of info he doesn't find useful at that time ...

Basic lens will do, maybe kit zoom better at first (yes i know about primes but you have to be old enought to be patient ... i guess next year i will get her a cheap 18-55 kit to fill in the gap of the film lenses ... the 50 1.8 will go to her when i upgrade mine to 1.4 or 1.2  )


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## bholliman (Aug 20, 2013)

TBenson said:


> My kids would have quickly destroyed an SLR. And then what good is a broken camera?



I think it depends on the kid. My older son (a teenager now) tends to be reckless and rough with things and they don't last long, so I would not have bought him a Rebel at age 9. We gave him a "throw away" old Kodak that only lasted a few months, but we kind of expected that when we gave it to him.

Our 7-year-old niece on the other hand is an entirely different kid. She is very neat and careful and takes great care of her toys and other possessions. If/when she shows an interest in photography, I would feel good about giving her a somewhat more expensive camera (used rebel) because I'm sure she would take good care of it.


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## Dukinald (Aug 21, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Turns out she's got a great eye for subject and composition. Yesterday, she was out in the back yard shooting pictures, and she came up to me and said, "Daddy, I want to learn what these other buttons do...the camera is making my pictures too bright, and I want to learn to make them _darker_." My 5-year old wants to get out of Auto/P-mode and take control of her pictures. Color me proud! ;D



We went to the New Haven OPen tennis tournament the other night and my 9 YO son wanted to use my gripped t2i + 70-200F4 combo that i brought. I let him take some shots of the stadium and the players.
Then came this guy with a Nikon and telephoto with monopod and started shooting too beside my son. It made me chuckle cause my son can barely hold my gear shooting side by side with this guy. My son also shot with my EOS M which i brought for the WA shots and again made me laugh when he complained that the focusing was taking longer ;D ;D

Digital is the way to go IMO as kids usually will always chimp at every shot. I'm thinking on letting him use my old Nikon P&S L120 for now or even the M. Then he can use my rebel when i upgrade to FF give or take a couple of years : :


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## jdramirez (Aug 21, 2013)

my daughter and I were shooting ducks, with camera not guns. and the neck strap was making her sweaty. and she took it off for a second before I was telling her that the discomfort of the neck strap is far less than dropping the camera into water. she retorted that we didn't pay that much for her body and lens.... I was annoyed, but she kept the neck strap around her sweaty neck.


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## Hannes (Aug 21, 2013)

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-used-canon-eos-400d-digital-slr-camera-body-only/p1542145

and 

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-used-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f3-5-5-6-mk-ii-lens/p1542144

£99 together, problem solved


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