# Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 17, 2017)

```
<p>A few more bits of information about the EOS 6D Mark II have come to us, and further confirmation of what we have already told you.</p>
<p>We have confirmed that all 45 AF points will be cross-type, as well as the camera having a single SD card slot and body only pricing of $1999 in the US. Pricing for the EOS 6D Mark II is $100 less than the launch price of the original EOS 6D.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Specifications:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>26mp CMOS Sensor</li>
<li>DPAF</li>
<li>DIGIC 7</li>
<li>1080P 60p (sadly, no 4K)</li>
<li>45pt AF all cross-type</li>
<li>Single SD card slot</li>
<li>Wi-Fi</li>
<li>Bluetooth</li>
<li>NFC</li>
<li>3″ Vari-Angle LCD</li>
<li>Touchscreen</li>
<li>Approx 100% viewfinder</li>
<li>HDR Movie</li>
<li>Time Lapse Movie</li>
<li>A slightly taller and deeper body over the current EOS 6D.</li>
<li>New battery grip BG-E21</li>
<li>Announcement on June 29, 2017, Shipping in early August</li>
<li>Price: $1999 body only USD</li>
</ul>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
<div style="font-size:0px;height:0px;line-height:0px;margin:0;padding:0;clear:both"></div>
```


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## sanj (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Thank you for the information.


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## deadwrong (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I guess FPS is the only thing I wonder about now ......6?


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## siegsAR (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Price 100 less, but it is actually much more expensive than the Mk1 on release date - dollar power in play.


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## intrigue.photography (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.  

I was really hoping they wouldn't do this so I could keep using my Canon lenses on a rig with DPAF and a tilty screen.


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## davidj (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

That seems like a very reasonably price, as it's only going to go down over time. It's hard to deny that Nikon's D750 is a bargain though.

Judging by the price difference with the 5D IV, this will probably cost something like AU$2799, which is AU$400 more than the original.


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## midluk (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

We have to see the actual performance and up to what aperture the points remain cross type, but 45 cross type AF points sounds better than the 41 cross type of the 5D4 (only 21 points for lenses slower than f/4).
With the 5D4 I'm a bit disappointed by the measly horizontal spread of the 21 cross type AF points with the 100-400.


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## BillB (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



midluk said:


> We have to see the actual performance and up to what aperture the points remain cross type, but 45 cross type AF points sounds better than the 41 cross type of the 5D4 (only 21 points for lenses slower than f/4).
> With for the 5D4 I'm a bit disappointed by the measly horizontal spread of the 21 cross type AF points with the 100-400.





midluk said:


> We have to see the actual performance and up to what aperture the points remain cross type, but 45 cross type AF points sounds better than the 41 cross type of the 5D4 (only 21 points for lenses slower than f/4).
> With for the 5D4 I'm a bit disappointed by the measly horizontal spread of the 21 cross type AF points with the 100-400.



Looks like the AF specs are same as 80D. If so, 27 points are F8. Not bad.


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## wildwalker (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Sounds great.

I expect this camera to be in the £2200 mark in the UK, doing the conversion, with VAT works out at about £1900, but we always seem to get charged more. The pound is quite weak, so that won't help either.

If its over £2000 grand on release (unless it's like 2049 or something silly) I will wait for the first price drop, but as Summer has well and truly started, I can't wait to get out with a new body 

Alan.


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## Hornet (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.


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## goldenhusky (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and [email protected], [email protected] 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has [email protected] and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely


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## wildwalker (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hornet said:


> I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.



The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?


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## shutterlag (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Holy crap are you kidding me? I haven't been following Canon, but dang, that's fracking horrible. The D750 with the 24-120 F4, 51-pt AF, same or better DR/ISO, from 2014 is $2k. At what point does Canon start competing with Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc. and stop competing with themselves?


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## CanonGuy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

You lost business from me at single SD card slot. Well.dine canon! Way to go.


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## Hornet (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> Hornet said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.
> ...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



siegsAR said:


> Price 100 less, but it is actually much more expensive than the Mk1 on release date - dollar power in play.



Can you tells how you determined that?

In 2013 dollars, the 2017 $2000 cost is $1902 versus the 2013 cost for a 6D of $2100

In 2013 Yen, the current dollar equivalent in yen (22170) is 212,437 versus the 2013 yen cost for a 6D of 220,000

No matter how you calculate in, the price is currency is ~$200 less than in 2013.


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## Act444 (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Thanks for sharing.

Seems good, although I have to admit a single card slot is a bit of a disappointment given the same money can get you a 5D Mark III or D750, either with dual slots.

Also - did they remove the GPS that was in the original...??


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## Hornet (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> Hornet said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.
> ...



I'm not sure what would be a Sony equivalent other than maybe the 4-year old A7R with much, much better image quality. Nikon is probably the least innovative camera maker today so not much of an example for Canon to follow.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



shutterlag said:


> Holy crap are you kidding me? I haven't been following Canon, but dang, that's fracking horrible. The D750 with the 24-120 F4, 51-pt AF, same or better DR/ISO, from 2014 is $2k. At what point does Canon start competing with Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc. and stop competing with themselves?



Perhaps when (if) Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc., gain sufficient market share to require it?

Meanwhile, if the D750 meets your needs, you should buy one.


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## BillB (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hornet said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Hornet said:
> ...



ok There is no equivalent price FF Sony. Therefore Sony does not offer an equivalent price FF Sony with UHD. Nikon does not offer an equivalent price camera with UHD. No other manufacturers offer FF cameras with UHD. So why are you surprised that Canon is not offering UHD on the 6DII?


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.
> 
> I was really hoping they wouldn't do this so I could keep using my Canon lenses on a rig with DPAF and a tilty screen.



You might be the only person around here who actually bought one of those instead of just complaining that Canon doesn't make one. Good job! In all sincerity.


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## Yasko (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

1 SD Card Slot is a huge let down.
Although you might never use this feature... if one card dies, it's essential.
Protect to force the wedding and professional photography market to buy higher market cams instead of this otherwise perfectly capable piece of equipment. Plain and simple.


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## Famateur (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> Hornet said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...



Bingo.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> So why are you surprised that Canon is not offering UHD on the 6DII?



Because I wants it, my Precious. I wants my 4K and I must haves it, Precious.


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## dak723 (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hornet said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Hornet said:
> ...



Have you actually tried the Sony A7? Or are you just assuming it has "much, much better image quality" because you read it on the internet? As someone who bought a Sony to replace my 6D, I found the image quality to be slightly better ...on my 6D, that is!


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I wonder how many first-posters complaining about the single card slot are actually 'K'?


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## sabeast (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Which camera would you guys recommend, Canon 5D Mark IV, Wait For 6D Mark II, Sony A7Rii For Fashion, Street, Product Photography?


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## IglooEater (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Sounds good to me. 6fps and my wife will have me on my knees begging


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## rfdesigner (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Given this is all a rumor it might all be fine.. but...

1080p60fps max, single SD card slot, waterproofing?. I doubt it will be 5DIII standard, yet $2000!!

Canon, this is a mistake, a very big mistake.

A second hand 5DIII or a D750 suddenly look much more attractive.


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## wildwalker (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Yasko said:


> 1 SD Card Slot is a huge let down.
> Although you might never use this feature... if one card dies, it's essential.
> Protect to force the wedding and professional photography market to buy higher market cams instead of this otherwise perfectly capable piece of equipment. Plain and simple.



I would expect a professional, making money from their photographic business, to by a business model, I think the 5DMk4 is a semi-pro body (i could be wrong). However, the 6D is 'entry level' FF. A pro should not run their business on 'entry level' equipment.

Perhaps, from what you are saying, their is room for another FF model? Between the 5 and the 6 series? Or a 6Ds that has more features, but is still below the 5DMk4?

I don't know, I'm not a marketing person and I don't have the figures on DSLR sales to see if there is that kind of market granularity.

What do you guys think?


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## IglooEater (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



goldenhusky said:


> Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and [email protected], [email protected] 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has [email protected] and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely



My phone's GPS (iPhone 5) works perfectly even without any cell connectivity. So did my iPhone 4. Can't remember the 3G did or not


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## wildwalker (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > So why are you surprised that Canon is not offering UHD on the 6DII?
> ...



LOL


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## mb66energy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Specs seem quite o.k. for me. Just waiting for information/data about
* image quality (primary concern for me)
* precision/hit rate of AF + exposure
* ergonomics/usability

While some only focus on things it has not --- I see a unique combination of very good on chip AF + flexible screen: Great freedom for unusual compositions from lower or elevated point of view + non-standard composition (everything which is not center AF point oriented  .

And it is cheap enough to think about a two body solution with 16-35 f/4 (or 24-70 f/2.8 OS) + 70-200 f4 lenses.


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## sanj (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



sabeast said:


> Which camera would you guys recommend, Canon 5D Mark IV, Wait For 6D Mark II, Sony A7Rii For Fashion, Street, Product Photography?



All will do the job. You will for certain have better after sales service at Canon. 
I would go with 5d4.


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## bereninga (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I hope they kept the GPS in there. Using my phone's GPS for photos isn't convenient because you need to have wifi or bluetooth turned on the camera and phone, which also drains battery on both devices. I don't care about 4K at this point (or else I'd just get the GH5). 1080p120 would've been pretty nice though.


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## BillB (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Act444 said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Seems good, although I have to admit a single card slot is a bit of a disappointment given the same money can get you a 5D Mark III or D750, either with dual slots.
> 
> Also - did they remove the GPS that was in the original...??



True enough, but neither the Mark III nor the D750 is going to get you a moveable screen with touchscreen autofocus, which will be very nice for tripod work (although not so useful if you have a thing about using a tripod). You pay your money and you take your choice. If I get the 6DII, and start obsessing about card failure, I guess I would have to explore wireless off camera backup.

My guess is that they haven't confirmed that the 6DII has GPS, so they aren't saying one way or the other. If they knew for sure that there was no GPS, I'm pretty sure that we they would be telling us.


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## Adelino (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Seems as if a lot of people commenting are not relly the target market. One guy already has a 5D series and an 80D. This camera is aimed at semi pros on a tight budget or enthusiasts and first time FF buyers. I've been involved in photography since the 80s but I consider myself a bad photographer unfortunately. I'm really excited about these specs they hit all my wants. I hope it's designed with Rebel like ease of use too. Yeah I use auto modes and scene modes. I said I'm a bad photographer. If someone needs more than this entry level FF then Canon does offer that. Sounds like the 5D IV is ideal for some naysaers here. I'm very happy with the budget decisions that went into this camera. Sure I would love to have 5D build quality, 4K, dual card slots, even more focus points and a blonde in a bikini to manage my lenses but then I could not justify the price Canon would charge. At this point I am salivating and hope performance meets my expectations (better high ISO, better DR, fps not too slow - 6 will be great, hope auto focus especially tracking is a step or even half step above 80D). We will soon know more!


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## mb66energy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



IglooEater said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and [email protected], [email protected] 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has [email protected] and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely
> ...



Cellphone based GPS means
* standard GPS receiver which operates independently of cellphone networks but which is
* Assisted by the cellphone network therefore called A-GPS

While building a simple GPS coordinate displayer (NEO7 GPS board + arduino + LCD display + power bank) for teaching purposes I learned a little bit about what A-GPS is for: The cellphone can load _satellite orbit data_ via the communication network which is much faster than loading the same data from the satellite. In a creek you need maybe lots of attempts to get at least the three satellites and the orbital data from the satellites.

If the reveiver module has the orbital data, a GPS fix is obtained within seconds: The satellite receiver just compares time signals from the satellites [and therefore needs the precise orbit data to calculate the satellite position within 10m uncertainty (at satellite speeds of 7000m per second). It's really fun to see how good this works!].


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## goldenhusky (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



IglooEater said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and [email protected], [email protected] 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has [email protected] and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely
> ...



thank you.


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## goldenhusky (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bereninga said:


> I hope they kept the GPS in there. Using my phone's GPS for photos isn't convenient because you need to have wifi or bluetooth turned on the camera and phone, which also drains battery on both devices. I don't care about 4K at this point (or else I'd just get the GH5). 1080p120 would've been pretty nice though.



Very valid point. A good case to include GPS receiver.


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## PureClassA (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

For $1999 Canon is going to sell a lot of these. It is pretty much replacing the 5D3 with a better/newer sensor tech. Looks like a very hot seller for Canon.


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## BillB (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> I wonder how many first-posters complaining about the single card slot are actually 'K'?



or maybe some wannabees


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## Famateur (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I was hoping all the belly-aching about 6DII specs would have run its course in the other thread. 

The 6DII is not aimed at...wait for it...videographers, sports shooters or mirrorless fanatics (and yet they still moan about it not meeting their needs). It's not even really aimed at the average 6D owner looking to upgrade (Canon's intended upgrade path there is 5-series). Rather, I believe it's aimed at people like me who have enjoyed their APS-C bodies, want to move to full frame for the image quality but can't justify a 5-series price for their hobby.

Canon persuaded many of its APS-C shooters to go full-frame with the 6D on the strength of its sensor (better even than the 5DIII) and lower price point compared to 5- and 1-series bodies. Canon has now improved the specs enough to persuade its other APS-C shooters who, like me, didn't want to trade the capabilities and ergonomics of bodies like the 70D or 80D for full-frame image quality alone. In other words, we didn't want to downgrade everything else just to upgrade the sensor. That's the only reason I stuck with APS-C. Now, I don't have to give anything up (except probably burst rate). I keep my articulating screen, DPAF and WiFi and get much better AF, plus some extra goodies -- all with a sensor that's _better _than the previous generation.

Remember how everyone thought the original 6D, which was explicitly marketed as entry-level, was poo-pooed on all the fora as DOA, a guaranteed flop? Totally useless compared to the innovative competition? Especially with second-hand 5DIIs floating around? Well, it sold well. Quite well. Well enough, in fact, to have this long a life cycle. I expect the same for the MKII.

Personally, I'm absolutely thrilled at the spec list! All I needed was an articulating screen and AF points on par with the 70D (19 points, all cross-type). Instead, I get 45 AF points like the 80D? And all cross-type? WOOT! And for less than the original 6D launch price several years ago!?! WOOHOO! Done. Sold. Doing the happy dance. 

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[Canon, please don't poke me in the eye and leave out AFMA. ]


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## LesC (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I'd be pretty miffed if it doesn't have GPS - one of the things that attracted me to the original 6D.


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## photogdan (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> Hornet said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.
> ...



True but Sony plans to announce the A7III with similar specs and price plus 4K very soon after the 6DMII is announced. Same with Nikon, although I have not heard anything about price. The timing is definitely not a coincidence.

I'll probably pick up the 6DMII if only for it's higher (compared to 6D) resolution, low light performance and articulating screen. Those are 3 very good reasons for someone that doesn't shoot video. However, I won't pre-order. At least not based on the rumored specs. Hopefully the actual specs will include more not less.


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## Etienne (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

At $2000 it's not a bad value, at this moment. 

I'm disappointed at the lack of 4K, and the single card slot, but they are not total deal breakers. DPAF in a full frame 1080p with fast glass will be very useful for getting intimate clips. Full reviews will tell the tale.

But, my guess is that the A7sIII, likely to be released in less than a year, will also have full sensor based phase detect AF, and a lot more, making the 6D2 value short lived. Of course, the A7sIII will be more expensive, but I was hoping the 6D2 would move further up-market.

The 6D2 may be a useful stop-gap, if at least the 1080p is good, without moire or aliasing.


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## goldenhusky (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



mb66energy said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > goldenhusky said:
> ...



My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?


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## rfdesigner (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



goldenhusky said:


> My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?



My running watch (no phone connection) picks up GPS in maybe 10 seconds.. sometimes less. not instantly but decently fast, because it keeps a memory of the satellite orbits.

i.e. you don't need a phone to tell you what to look for, memory get's you pretty close... time works against you, if you leave it several weeks between uses then the GPS can take a fair bit longer to lock as needs to download fresh data.


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## Famateur (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rfdesigner said:


> Given this is all a rumor it might all be fine.. but...
> 
> 1080p60fps max, single SD card slot, waterproofing?. I doubt it will be 5DIII standard, yet $2000!!
> 
> ...



Not to anyone who uses and enjoys DPAF and articulating touch screen and doesn't mind the improved sensor to boot.


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



mb66energy said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > goldenhusky said:
> ...



Huh, very interesting, thanks!


----------



## Hornet (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> Hornet said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...



Perhaps surprised was the wrong word. Disappointed is better. I see so much innovation with other camera makers as they compete for market share by jamming their cameras with new features at each update. Why shouldn't we demand more from Canon? Is it really ok that 4k video is still probably another 4 years away in a 6DIII? Don't get me wrong, I love my 6D and Canon glass, but I think their go-slow, offer-the-peasants-a-few-scraps approach could, in time, leave them in their competitor's dust.


----------



## weixing (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rfdesigner said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?
> ...


Hi,
My previous 6D and my current 7DII GPS is very slow, so slow that I never use them... I currently use a Garmin GPS which is a lot faster and accurate. I just export the GPS track from the GPS and embed them into the Canon RAW files using the GeoSetter software. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

The good news is, we can come back in four years and see how all the predictions went. If the value proposition for competing products is materially better, it will be reflected in the market. If/when that happens, Canon will move to compete. If not, there's no need for Canon to change course.

I get that people want to see Canon leading the way in everything. I wouldn't be disappointed if it did. But. In the tech industry, it's wise to not use up all your tech just because you have it. If you're leading the industry, dominating market share, it's a waste (and a risk) to dump your best innovations when market conditions don't require it -- especially with technology that is maturing to the point where huge leaps in capability are fewer and farther between. To be _unable _to release something new because engineers are still trying to turn patents into something mass-produceable, reliable and affordable (and everything that already was had been released) would be absolutely devastating to a tech company.

Honestly, if the market is so full of "better" options, why waste time complaining? Go and buy them! Unless people do that, Canon will have no need to do anything differently. As a happy Canon shooter, I'd encourage people to go buy the competing products if they feel they are better. That will just result in better Canon products for me down the road. 

As much as people seem to complain to the contrary, I think Canon is listening to its customers.

Remember several years ago, after the D800 came out, how so many moaned that Canon didn't release a "high megapixel monster?" They answered with the 5DS -- at 50MP over Nikon's 36. No one else had anything close (not counting medium format).

Remember when people wanted no AA filter? Canon responded with the 5DSR.

Remember when people complained about Canon's AF in the 5DII? They responded with AF nearly as good as the 1DX in the 5DIII...and continued that with the 5DIV having nearly as good of AF as the 1DXII.

Remember when people complained about Live View AF being slow and clumsy? Canon gave us DPAF which is so good that it's changing opinions about AF in the videography world (it also happens to be brilliant for me in-studio for situations when the focus point needs to be constantly and quickly changed).

Remember when people complained about Canon's ever-increasing prices? Then the 70D launched $200 cheaper than all the rumors. Then the 16-35F4 came with reasonable price. Then the M series and lenses all came in lower than people expected. Same with the 24-105F4II and others. Then the 5DIV launched for pretty much the same as the 5DIII, despite the number of intervening years. Now the 6DII comes in cheaper than its predecessor.

I also remember people melting down about the huge leap in price from 5DII to 5DIII and predicting that Canon was *******. The 5DIII went on to be arguably the best all-around pro/semi-pro body out there and dominated the market.

In this world of short attention spans and instant gratification, perhaps it's easy to forget...

Sure, it would be neat to see Canon drop its best tech into a full-frame mirrorless body or quickly 1-up the competition at every turn and for a lower price. It's just not the way business works, though, for a market-leader. Yes, Sony does that, but it has to. Companies trying to claw their way into market share usually do. At the cost of reliability, customer service, etc.

Everyone will assess the value proposition differently, and as markets move, so will Canon -- maybe not on the bleeding edge, but well enough to remain a solid business with solid imaging products in an extremely competitive industry.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

^^This


----------



## Famateur (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hornet said:


> Perhaps surprised was the wrong word. Disappointed is better. I see so much innovation with other camera makers as they compete for market share by jamming their cameras with new features at each update. Why shouldn't we demand more from Canon? Is it really ok that 4k video is still probably another 4 years away in a 6DIII? Don't get me wrong, I love my 6D and Canon glass, but I think their go-slow, offer-the-peasants-a-few-scraps approach could, in time, leave them in their competitor's dust.



You absolutely can demand more from Canon. Just remember that in business, demand is only communicated by purchase transactions. Quite literally, you demand what you buy. If you want Canon to respond to demand, it has to be in the marketplace. It would be foolish business practice to operate differently.

I wouldn't expect 4K to come to a 6-series body until higher-tier bodies have something more (like 6K or 8K). It is an entry-level body and will likely always be positioned as such relative to higher-tier feature sets.


----------



## RandomRazr (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Is it worth waiting for the 6D II or can i go wrong with the 5D IV?


----------



## padam (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

The omission of 4k is fine (and understandable to a certain extent). But sticking to using a single card slot (in a body this big) is pushing it too far I think. It would have been a great wedding camera with dual card slots, now the 5D Mark III remains as the 'budget' option (even though the sensor isn't as good).

I think the price will drop once the stocks begin to fill up within a few months.


----------



## johnhenry (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



JP4DESIGNZ said:


> I know the 6D Mark II will be awesome over time however, dang! No dual SD Card slot! I'm not too surprised about it not having 4K however, would have been nice though. Also, was GPS taken out of the 6D Mark II?
> 
> Definitely seems like a full-frame 80D which is good, except for no dual SD card slots.



Yeah they missed the mark not having 4K video.

The AF points that work with f/8 lenses are useful as I use a telescope and the lack of feedback on some is a problem

Trouble is, by replacing my 7D @ 1.6X and 18M, to make gains in resolution on a FF dSLR, I need to have 46M pixels and only the 5DS and 5DSr have this.

As for 
Posted by: Famateur
« on: Today at 02:43:43 PM »

Insert Quote


The good news is, we can come back in four years and see how all the predictions went. If the value proposition for competing products is materially better, it will be reflected in the market. If/when that happens, Canon will move to compete. If not, there's no need for Canon to change course.

I get that people want to see Canon leading the way in everything. I wouldn't be disappointed if it did. But. In the tech industry, it's wise to not use up all your tech just because you have it. If you're leading the industry, dominating market share, it's a waste (and a risk) to dump your best innovations when market conditions don't require it -- especially with technology that is maturing to the point where huge leaps in capability are fewer and farther between. To be unable to release something new because engineers ....


Canon CAN add 4K video by adding a parallel DSP CPU easily and rewriting the firmware. They just DON"T get loss of having people who NEED 4K to migrate to a FF camera that can do it.

And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



RandomRazr said:


> Is it worth waiting for the 6D II or can i go wrong with the 5D IV?



It depends on what you want from the $1,300 difference. If you want to spend that $1,300 on the additional features, get the 5DIV. If not, get the 6DII and spend the $1,300 on something else (like a good lens, or a trip to a great place to take photos).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



johnhenry said:


> And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.



Looks like that business degree from Trump U wasn't worth what you paid for it. :


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



padam said:


> The omission of 4k is fine (and understandable to a certain extent). But sticking to using a single card slot (in a body this big) is pushing it too far I think. It would have been a great wedding camera with dual card slots, now the 5D Mark III remains as the 'budget' option (even though the sensor isn't as good).
> 
> I think the price will drop once the stocks begin to fill up within a few months.



You think a company like Canon manufacturers new stock without knowing what demand is? It's 2017, manufacturing doesn't work like that anymore!


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



johnhenry said:


> And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.



Yes because Canon don't do any market research to work that out, they just blindly churn out new products with fingers crossed!


----------



## Adelino (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Can we assume it will have anti-flicker? That should be standard for Canon now, right?


----------



## Famateur (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



johnhenry said:


> Canon CAN add 4K video by adding a parallel DSP CPU easily and rewriting the firmware. They just DON"T get loss of having people who NEED 4K to migrate to a FF camera that can do it.
> 
> And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.



I'm not privy to Canon's R&D budget, but I'd be shocked if segmenting its full-frame line-up into four bodies was wasting money and costing customers. Just a few years ago, if you wanted a full-frame Canon, you could choose between 5-series and 1-series. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame segment, and it paid off handsomely. Nikon followed suit with its D600 (and then quick replacement with D610 ).

The 6DII is still positioned as an entry-level full-frame stills camera. Core features were significantly upgraded (e.g 45 cross-type AF points, DPAF, articulating touch screen, etc) . Non-core features were not (like video). Doesn't sound like a catastrophic decision to me.

Non-core features don't shape a market segment. Competing products from other companies don't drive feature set decisions. Market demand does. A competing product might have better specs in every category and maybe even for a cheaper price, but if the market determines that reliability and customer service are still more important in the value proposition, the specs won't matter. There's just more to it than specs and price.

Canon is competitive enough on specs. Add its reliability, ergonomics, service and lens selection, and its no surprise to me that an entry-level stills body that lacks 4K will still likely do just fine.


----------



## mb66energy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rfdesigner said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?
> ...



@goldenhusky:
The 6D has a standard GPS chip which gets the satellite orbital data (called ephemeris) and additionally the almanac of rough satellite positions. So it works independently of all earth bound communication systems like cellphone networks.

@both of you:
GPS receivers have to different start up modes:
cold start without any date except perhaps almanac data (change on sth. like a monthly interval)

warm start where the memory of the GPS receiver holds currently acquired ephemeris (=orbital) data -
these are only valid vor a period of 4 hrs to keep track of changes of the data: Storms and tides change
the height of the water, hence the gravitational forces hence the orbit of the satellites so the corresponding
data has to be updated this often (the above mentioned 4hr - interval)

So your watch maybe makes a warm start or doesn't have to start because it is scanning the satellites in intervals. Cameras are maybe designed to be careful with electric energy for other purposes than taking photos - so maybe weixing's scenario of using a discrete GPS tracker is the best compromise ... getting fast and reliable GPS tracking while keeping the battery of the camera ready for its (the cameras) purpose!

(For those interested in the anatomy of a simple GPS:
The image below shows the setup I use. The small box at the top (ca. 1 x 1.5 inch) is the GPS receiver unit with antenna, processor (on the back) and a really tiny buffer battery to store the data in the memory for 1 day or so.
Then comes the arduino microcontroller, the LCD and - finally - a power bank with a lot of DR and 4k etc.
For a camera you "only" have to add the GPS receiver (under a RF transmitting (plastic) hood) - the rest is there (CPU(s), display(s), power source).
The coordinates (cropped for privacy reasons) give you the hint that I am (and live) in germany 50.3 deg N and 7.5 deg E


----------



## BillB (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hornet said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > Hornet said:
> ...


K
Don't know about you, but I think the dual pixel DPAF is pretty innovative, and the related touchscreen focusing is pretty neat too. Dual pixel technology has been the core of Canon's camera development strategy for a while now, not that everybody has noticed. Putting ADC on the sensor was more catchup than innovation, but you don't hear much about DR anymore, except from people who haven't heard the news. Putting the 45 point AF on the 6DII wasn't all that innovative either but it was a nice add all the same, and doesn't really square with the prediction that Canon was going to nerf the 6DII. For me, the 6DII adds up to more than tossing scraps to the peasants. Canon did pass on 4K and we are all going to see how that all plays out for them. Maybe Sony or somebody else will be offering FF 4K for $2000 a year from now. Maybe not.


----------



## K (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.






JP4DESIGNZ said:


> No dual SD Card slot! I'm not too surprised about it not having 4K however, would have been nice though. Also, was GPS taken out of the 6D Mark II?
> 
> Definitely seems like a full-frame 80D which is good, except for no dual SD card slots.






shutterlag said:


> Holy crap are you kidding me? I haven't been following Canon, but dang, that's fracking horrible. The D750 with the 24-120 F4, 51-pt AF, same or better DR/ISO, from 2014 is $2k. At what point does Canon start competing with Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc. and stop competing with themselves?





CanonGuy said:


> You lost business from me at single SD card slot. Well.dine canon! Way to go.






Act444 said:


> Seems good, although I have to admit a single card slot is a bit of a disappointment given the same money can get you a 5D Mark III or D750, either with dual slots.






Yasko said:


> 1 SD Card Slot is a huge let down.
> Although you might never use this feature... if one card dies, it's essential.
> Protect to force the wedding and professional photography market to buy higher market cams instead of this otherwise perfectly capable piece of equipment. Plain and simple.






rfdesigner said:


> 1080p60fps max, single SD card slot, waterproofing?. I doubt it will be 5DIII standard, yet $2000!!
> 
> Canon, this is a mistake, a very big mistake.
> 
> A second hand 5DIII or a D750 suddenly look much more attractive.





CANON has laid an egg with the 6D2. 

Canon is gambling on losing customers like me and likely others in this thread and throughout the market for potential added profits of upselling others to the 5D4. It's is extremely remarkable that a company can get away with selling a $2,000 body in mid 2017 with such lame specs - but Canon is empowered to be able to do so because there are (as evident in this forum) hordes of total suckers who will buy this thing - some because they have no choice being "invested" in lots of glass.

Some, to fulfill their needs will fall for the forced upsell to the 5D4. Resist it. Unless you have a fortune in glass, DUMP Canon if you're looking for a lower cost FF body. If you are new to FF, or looking to get your first $3,000ish pro body...forget Canon. You can buy a D750 and a D500 for the price of a single 5D4 which suffers from banding issues. LOL. 


The 6D2 specs vs D750 for $1,500 from 2014:


45pt AF -- Soundly crushed by the D750 51pt system which has better intelligent tracking. 

26mp -- Almost unnoticeable resolution advantage over D750 24mp particularly since both have the AA filter, and the D750 is still likely to beat it on dynamic range. 6D2 might have the edge on high ISO, a little.

Single Card Slot -- A serious liability, D750 ensures you never lose a shoot. 6D2's lack of this feature is a ticking timebomb - putting your whole shoot, time, energy and money at risk over the reliability of a single card slot. 

FPS ??? -- still unknown for the 6D2, but the D750 has 6.5 fps. We can easily assume the 6D2 won't match this because it would be nearly as fast as the 5D4. Remember, the 6D2 exists to try and prove the 5D4 is a great upgrade. 

Tilt Screen - they both have it

Video - Same quality, no difference.

DPAF -- Big win for the 6D2 (sarcasm). For $2,000 you get a DSLR that has decent AF capabilities!! BFD!! For $2,000 you can buy a dedicated video camera or competitor that has far better video quality and features. So, this is a wasted feature. $2,000 DPAF rig that does 1080 (laughter).

Viewfinder -- 6D2 "nearly 100%" ...what kind of marketing BS is that? "nearly" can mean anything. It can be 97% like the 6D, it can be 99%. "Nearly" ...D750 100% <--WIN.

Bluetooth/NFC -- uh....these bring the zzzz's

There you have it. Save $500 and get a D750. If you are going to feel pressured to go up market, don't get the 5D4, get the D750 and a D500. That combo is seriously powerful and extremely capable.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Wow! The 6DII fixes all the weaknesses of the 6D and does it for less money at introduction. Looks like Canon will have another winner.

Can't wait now to see what the SL2 will be like.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.
> ...



So, did you buy two Nikon bodies then?


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



PureClassA said:


> For $1999 Canon is going to sell a lot of these. It is pretty much replacing the 5D3 with a better/newer sensor tech. Looks like a very hot seller for Canon.



+1. Compare against Sony/Nikon all you want, but the 6D2 will (broadly) be a 5D3 with...

A much better sensor
Tilty-flippy
DPAF
Wifi/Bluetooth/NFC 
(and likely GPS and anti-flicker -- it's just not confirmed yet)

So far, it appears the better AF made the ship but dual slots and 4k did not. Call it nerfing or call it 'strategic product line differentiation' with the 5D4, but I value AF a lot more than a second slot and 4k. All we have left to see on the more important side of the spec sheet would be FPS, buffer, max shutter speed and flash sync.

But even as it stands, I think it will sell just fine.

- A


----------



## mb66energy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

@K

seems that you had the chance to play with 6D mark ii and compare it to the Nikon - please write a great article with IQ comparison on a standard scene and send us your link 

But you missed some points - just 2 for example

(1) DPAF isn't just for video but also for those who do use standard modern compositions: Main subject in / near the center. Good tracking with a broad field of selectable areas is also important for macro during wind.

(2) The 500 EUR lower price of the 750D has to be compared to the money one has to invest in glass ...


----------



## PBguy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

If these specs are confirmed then I plan to pre-order. I currently have a 5D Mark II and a 6D. My biggest hopes for the 6D Mark II is improved high ISO noise performance and improved DR along with much better AF. After using a friend's 5D Mark IV I'm excited to have a touch screen lcd with vari-angle. I'm hoping it makes accurate focus faster for astro work. 

I'm not at all concerned about it having a single card slot or lack of 4K video. I will be disappointed if it doesn't include built-in GPS though. 

I just hope I get it in time to shoot the solar eclipse on August 21st!


----------



## rfdesigner (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



mb66energy said:


> @both of you:
> GPS receivers have to different start up modes:
> cold start without any date except perhaps almanac data (change on sth. like a monthly interval)
> 
> ...




That would suggest Polar are doing something slightly interesting in their updates, or maybe just uploading a series of predicted files

http://support.polar.com/uk-en/support/what_is_assisted_gps_a_gps_how_does_it_work


----------



## photogdan (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> johnhenry said:
> 
> 
> > And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.
> ...



I'm positive the market leader does market research. The difference is as the market leader, Canon can take chances... in this case saying no to features offered by their competitors. Yet they will still sell a ton of camera's. The competition HAS TO take chances by adding more features just to try and gain additional market share. Us Canon shooters will only benefit when Canon starts to lose market share and they start to take more chances by adding features instead of omitting them.

It's going to take a lot more than Canon omitting 4k from a camera that was never targeted for video before they lose market share.


----------



## Hornet (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> Hornet said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



I don't mean to die on the hill of 4K, it's just illustrates my larger point which is other manufacturers add new and unexpected updates when they refurbish a model and usually after two years. Since Canon leaves us waiting for 4 years we should expect much more than is on offer here. A touch screen has been on phones, and other cameras, for years, as well as articulating screens. This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.


----------



## DslmNut (Jun 17, 2017)

*HDMI Output*

Looking to know about the HDMI output. Will it be clean 1080 422 10 bit?

Peter


----------



## hbr (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> I was hoping all the belly-aching about 6DII specs would have run its course in the other thread.
> 
> The 6DII is not aimed at...wait for it...videographers, sports shooters or mirrorless fanatics (and yet they still moan about it not meeting their needs). It's not even really aimed at the average 6D owner looking to upgrade (Canon's intended upgrade path there is 5-series). Rather, I believe it's aimed at people like me who have enjoyed their APS-C bodies, want to move to full frame for the image quality but can't justify a 5-series price for their hobby.
> 
> ...



+1


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



photogdan said:


> It's going to take a lot more than Canon omitting 4k from a camera that was never targeted for video before they lose market share.



+1

Consider this list of things competitors offer that has not sunk Canon's share to date:

IBIS
On chip ADC sensors (Canon did not have this for the first half or so of Sony's A7 rampage)
Wider proliferation of 4K throughout the camera body line
Much lighter and thinner (front to back) bodies
Tility-flippy screens (in FF)
1/32000s electronic shutters
Ability to adapt older lenses, Canon lenses, Nikon lenses, etc.
Pixel shift ultra-high detail mode
Foveon sensors
Eye detect AF
A bajillion AF point autofocus systems
20 fps
Backside sensor illumination
Apochromatic autofocusing lenses
Odd but sexy lenses like 105mm f/1.4 and 28mm f/1.4

*...yet Canon marches on.* There are certainly things on that list above we'd all love to have, but Canon (apparently) has done the market research to understand which things folks would leave Canon for, and I'm just guessing some far more basic things (Color, video AF, resale value, reliability, service, EF portfolio, etc.) are trumping the wishes of the spec-sheet-obsessed masses that dwell in internet forums. :

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> CANON has laid an egg with the 6D2.



Yep...a nice, fat, solid gold egg. 




K said:


> Canon is gambling on losing customers like me



Canon doesn't give a sh!t about you. Owners of xxDs, 5DIIs, and other older/lower models will be queueing up to buy it. 

Are you enjoying your D750? :


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> There are certainly things on that list above we'd all love to have, but Canon (apparently) has done the market research to understand which things folks would leave Canon for, and I'm just guessing some far more basic things (Color, video AF, resale value, reliability, service, EF portfolio, etc.) are trumping the wishes of the spec-sheet-obsessed masses that dwell in internet forums. :
> 
> - A



And this is why I keep asking the dozen or so residents who bring up the D750 three times a page why they don't go ahead and buy one. My assumption is, if they ever have the stones to answer honestly, they'll say "Because the Canon is better than the Nikon, because of lenses/ support/ ergonomics/ color/ something else, so I want all the benefits of the Nikon _and_ all the benefits of the Canon, and I'm going to throw a temper tantrum until I get it!".

Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.



In a market with an entrenched market leader with some _overwhelming_ advantages (EF portfolio, huge manufacturing scale, great color science, reliability, brand recognition, resale, 3rd party ecosystem, etc.), the 2nd and 3rd place competitors in that market generally need to spend their time/resources either *chipping away at those advantages* (Sony with better sensors, Nikon with some niche pro lenses, a merger/acquisition might happen here, etc.) or *selling products for less money than they are worth to steal share* (the entire A7 line, the D750, etc.).

This is not a difficult concept. I just think some folks are spec-sheet obsessives who truly value 1-3 line items on a spec sheet more than the Canon brand's very long list of unspoken upsides.

- A


----------



## tmroper (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*


A touch screen has been on phones, and other cameras, for years, as well as articulating screens. This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.
[/quote]

Sony has only recently added touchscreens to a couple Alpha cameras (the 6500 and the A9), and even those implementations are limited. And they (the Alphas) still don't have articulating screens. So Sony is years behind in some areas as well. Alas, none of the manufacturers give everybody everything they want.


----------



## slclick (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

If I was in the market for a new body this would be the ONE. However....


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.
> ...



That's... more or less what I said? People want all the benefits of Canon, _and all the benefits of all competitors_, at once, from Canon. They'll bring up the D750 over and over, or the A9, they'll shout from the mountaintops that if Canon doesn't make the perfect camera they'll switch... but then they're still here. Year after year.

They don't even value lines 1-3 on the spec sheet more than Canon's intangibles - if they did, they'd _go buy one of those cameras_. They just want to use the spec sheet as a bargaining chip to get a better deal out of Canon, only they aren't in a position to negotiate with Canon, so they complain here.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hornet said:


> <snip>
> This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.



Even worse than the GoPro Hero 3? Oh My!!!! it must really be bad!!!!


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> They don't even value lines 1-3 on the spec sheet more than Canon's intangibles - if they did, they'd _go buy one of those cameras_. They just want to use the spec sheet as a bargaining chip to get a better deal out of Canon, only they aren't in a position to negotiate with Canon, so they complain here.



Well put.

- A


----------



## CombatClaret (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.


----------



## benny.c (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I've followed this site for years, but this is finally my first post. 

I am a EOS 7D owner and also a 4K Video fan. My primary camera for the past two years is the Sony RX10 II. Sure, it has a smaller sensor, but the camera is superior in many ways. I only use the 7D when I need shallow DOF from a 50mm F/1.4.

Canon, hear me out! I would have bought a 7D Mark II on the spot if it had 4K. I would have bought an 80D on the spot if it had 4K. I would have strongly considered a 5D Mark IV if it didn't have a 1.73x Crop for 4K in MJPEG. (Seriously, I might as well just get a GH5 with that kind of crop!)

*It's very disappointing that the rumour regarding the improved crop for the 5D Mark IV wasn't true. *That would have made way for the 6D Mark II to have a 1:1 4K Video Mode (cropped). But, it was obvious when the 5D IV rumour was debunked that the 6D II would never have 4K, for it would end up with a better crop than the 5D IV (8.8 of 26MP versus 8.8 of 30MP). Perhaps the 6D Mark II will have the best 1080p Canon has ever put in an SLR, but that won't be enough for me to consider what will otherwise be a great camera.

I'm more and more convinced that Canon isn't concerned with innovating in this field. It seems that the Canon sensor technology just hasn't progressed enough. Either that, or internal marketing is really limiting what gets released. I do like Canon colour better, but with the EOSHD Colour, the RX10 II is performing well as my first non-Canon camera and I would strongly consider an Sony a6500 sometime this year. As a casual shooter with occasional semi-pro engagements, it's unlikely I will ever return to the Canon fold if I start investing in Sony glass.

That makes me sad, because I still feel like a Canon guy even though the bulk of my recent shooting has been on a Sony bridge camera. Hopefully, something from Canon will actually surprise me this year.


----------



## dak723 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > There are certainly things on that list above we'd all love to have, but Canon (apparently) has done the market research to understand which things folks would leave Canon for, and I'm just guessing some far more basic things (Color, video AF, resale value, reliability, service, EF portfolio, etc.) are trumping the wishes of the spec-sheet-obsessed masses that dwell in internet forums. :
> ...



Because they don't really care that much. If they did they would: A) Buy the Nikon or Sony (or whatever they think is better). B) Write, email, tweet, phone or communicate with Canon about their wishes. How many of these whining complainers contacted Canon in the past 3 years or so and communicated what they wanted to see in the 6D - or asked how they could become part of their market research? My guess would be zero.

The best thing to do is to IGNORE THEIR POSTS, so that people who want to have a real discussion can do so. Please, do not feed the trolls.


----------



## BillB (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



Yes, for some posters, the script seems to be to explain to us over and over again how incompetent Canon management is blighting our world by getting us to buy clearly inferior Canon equipment. It has to do with helping the rest of us see the Light and force the hapless incompetents at Canon to do the right thing, all the while making it clear how little they respect anyone who disagrees with them. Only they understand what is going on. It doesn't seem to have much to do with finding good camera equipment and learning how to use it well. It doesn't even seem to have much to with changing anybody's mind. It is about preaching in the Wilderness to those who cannot understand. That is the way that they will save the photographic world. Or not.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> Introductory models compete heavily on price. Since the competition for the introductory FF model is the Nikon D750 at $1500, I expect to see something similar, and certainly under $2000 US......



OMG! I finally (sort of) guessed the price of a new model! After years of poor guesses, this one was close! Obviously Canon is *******!!!!!


----------



## timglowik (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Some nice specs .. but also some not so nice.. for 2000 USD you'd expect 2 memory card slots and 4k video ... 4k isn't dealbreaker for me .. the 2nd missing sd-card slot is - hope this rumor isn't true - since we already have quite a bit fuji equipment, but need to replace our current 6ds and a 5d3 .. i guess fuji and sony will be the future since i am also not blown away by the 5d iv (which i own ...) - sony a9 looks pretty tempting .. Canon has to stop competing with their own products and has to start competing with other brands .. Getting disappointet and disappointed for a few years now .. (since the release of the 5d3 nothing mindblowing)


----------



## BillB (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



tmroper said:


> A touch screen has been on phones, and other cameras, for years, as well as articulating screens. This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.



Sony has only recently added touchscreens to a couple Alpha cameras (the 6500 and the A9), and even those implementations are limited. And they (the Alphas) still don't have articulating screens. So Sony is years behind in some areas as well. Alas, none of the manufacturers give everybody everything they want.
[/quote]

Touchscreens themselves are not the important feature. The key new development is focusing the lens by touching the part of the image on the screen that you want to be in focus. Touchscreen focusing is the part that is new. And that is based on Canon's dual pixel technology. Very big deal for video, and very helpful for still photography as well.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



CombatClaret said:


> If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.



Please explain this 'cannibalization' of which you speak. If someone buys a 6DII instead of a 5DIV, how does Canon lose?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



timglowik said:


> Some nice specs .. but also some not so nice.. for 2000 USD you'd expect 2 memory card slots and 4k video ... 4k isn't dealbreaker for me .. the 2nd missing sd-card slot is - hope this rumor isn't true - since we already have quite a bit fuji equipment, but need to replace our current 6ds and a 5d3 .. i guess fuji and sony will be the future since i am also not blown away by the 5d iv (which i own ...) - sony a9 looks pretty tempting .. Canon has to stop competing with their own products and has to start competing with other brands .. Getting disappointet and disappointed for a few years now .. (since the release of the 5d3 nothing mindblowing)



H&G


----------



## sarah (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

My situation: I have a 400D (Rebel XTi) and the 100 2.8 Macro (the old, non-L version) as well as some legacy M42 glass lying around and want to get startet with photography once again. I am currently waiting for what Canon has to offer with the 6D II, because I am currently looking into "switching" to Nikon, Pentax or Sony. Each of them has their weaknesses, but for me doing mostly landscape and available light with many high contrast situations, the poor dynamic range of the 6D is a deal breaker. Even the 80D with the new ADC on-sensor is 1 1/2 stops worse than a Nikon D7200 or D750 and the 5D Mk IV being only okay (still 1 stop behind the APS-C Nikon D7200 or a D750).

I really hope that Canon does step up their game with the 6D II and the new sensor, as quite honestly, nothing matches the supply of available glass for Canon.

The missing card slot.. is kinda.. mehh.. 4k.. I don't do video, so.. yeah.

One last point: I personally don't mind buying a more expensive body when good glass is available for less then e.g. on the Nikon or Sony side (with Pentax not having good glass available at all for a multitude of focal lengths, but having IBIS, which also is a small dealbreaker). I invest in a Camera SYSTEM, not a body.


----------



## ScottyP (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

They met my major requirement with the much-improved AF. Provided the high ISO image quality with this sensor is at least as good as the 6d1, and that they haven't gone away from illuminated red AF points, I am a buyer.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> CombatClaret said:
> 
> 
> > If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.
> ...


Let me explain it to you.... 

I have X amount of dollars that I am willing to spend......

For X dollars, I can get a 5D4 and a lens.......

The 6D2 comes out at a lower price and "cannibalizes" sales of the 5D4.....

I spend my X dollars on a 6D2 and TWO lenses....

Canon cries all the way to the bank.....


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CombatClaret said:
> ...



...and you shoot for four days, look online, see a picture taken with a third lens, and decide you need that lens too. And as long as you're shopping again, the 80d would be a great backup body, and you might as well get a couple of STM crop lenses to go with. But they're cheap and good and will save wear and tear on your FF, so it's like you're saving money!

...or is that just me?


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Let me start by saying that (unless the so far unrevealed specs are really bad) that I will get a 6D2. I will be happy with it, I will take lots of pictures with it, some great, some real stinkers.... About .1% of the time I will shoot video with it.

The specs revealed so far all look great and in line with what I would expect for a camera in that price range with one notable exception. It does not have 4K. Also, is the slot UHS-1 or UHS-2?

For me, 4K is not a deal breaker, but I do feel that for a camera at this level, it should have more than 2K. If it had 2.7K, I would have been happy because that gives me wiggle room when editing to produce 2K content. So many before me have expressed outrage, made predictions of doom, or made dire threats over the issue.... so much so that the subject has become a matter of ridicule on the forum.

One thing for all of us to consider is that WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE INTERNAL ARCHITECTURE OF THE SENSOR IS. There may well be a solid technical reason why you need dual digic processors to handle 4K video. Perhaps the reason for that comes down to a choice of either stills quality or having 4K. The thing is, WE DO NOT KNOW!

Perhaps Canon could have done 4K with a single Digic processor, but now we have to ask ourselves about the heat load on the chips and sensor. Perhaps Canon decided to leave it out so that everyone with a 6D who shot long video clips did not have the camera go into thermal shutdown... like certain other cameras.... The thing is, WE DO NOT KNOW!

So we second guess and call each other and Canon names because 4K is missing. None of us have the information required to make an informed decision, but many of us are prepared to say that we know better without the technical data, without the sales data, without the service data, on a camera that none of us have ever seen or touched, and has not even had the full specs released yet.


----------



## JBSF (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> timglowik said:
> 
> 
> > Some nice specs .. but also some not so nice.. for 2000 USD you'd expect 2 memory card slots and 4k video ... 4k isn't dealbreaker for me .. the 2nd missing sd-card slot is - hope this rumor isn't true - since we already have quite a bit fuji equipment, but need to replace our current 6ds and a 5d3 .. i guess fuji and sony will be the future since i am also not blown away by the 5d iv (which i own ...) - sony a9 looks pretty tempting .. Canon has to stop competing with their own products and has to start competing with other brands .. Getting disappointet and disappointed for a few years now .. (since the release of the 5d3 nothing mindblowing)
> ...



Can we construe numbers of reviews of camera bodies on B&H Photo's website to represent relative popularity/sales? If so, then since the announcement of the 5D Mark III in March 2012, and announcement of the Sony A99 in September 2012, the 5D Mark III, 5D Mark IV, and 6D have received 2,699 reviews, while the Sony A99, A7, A7ii, A7R, A7Rii, A7S, A7Sii, and A9 have received 1,051.

Canon is clearly incapable of marketing research and is *******, outselling Sony 2.5 to 1 with three miserably underperforming bodies. And this was while Sony developed 8 bodies. It sure appears to me that Sony, not Canon, is competing with its own products and can't quite come up with a body that has all the features and the pricing that resonate with potential buyers.


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> timglowik said:
> 
> 
> > Some nice specs .. but also some not so nice.. for 2000 USD you'd expect 2 memory card slots and 4k video ... 4k isn't dealbreaker for me .. the 2nd missing sd-card slot is - hope this rumor isn't true - since we already have quite a bit fuji equipment, but need to replace our current 6ds and a 5d3 .. i guess fuji and sony will be the future since i am also not blown away by the 5d iv (which i own ...) - sony a9 looks pretty tempting .. Canon has to stop competing with their own products and has to start competing with other brands .. Getting disappointet and disappointed for a few years now .. (since the release of the 5d3 nothing mindblowing)
> ...


Care to elaborate? I seem to have missed something in my Internet vocabulary course.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



IglooEater said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > timglowik said:
> ...


I was guessing "Homes and Gardens", but failed to see the relevance... "Hansel and Gretel"? no mention of a gingerbread house so far, so that can't be it.... Holy Grail?????


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



IglooEater said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > H&G
> ...



New member, two Canon-bashing posts, claims to be leaving Canon because they can't compete. 

Hi & goodbye.


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

This is awesome news. The 6D II is turning out exactly how I hoped it would, a full frame 80D with improved sensor and even cheaper than I thought. I was hoping for $2200, and expecting $2400. coming in at $1999 is an awesome surprise. If that is the actual price then I will pre-order instead of waiting for CPW to get a lower street price which usually happens 1-2 months after release. 

Canon did not disappoint!


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



nightscape123 said:


> This is awesome news. The 6D II is turning out exactly how I hoped it would, a full frame 80D with improved sensor and even cheaper than I thought. I was hoping for $2200, and expecting $2400. coming in at $1999 is an awesome surprise. If that is the actual price then I will pre-order instead of waiting for CPW to get a lower street price which usually happens 1-2 months after release.
> 
> Canon did not disappoint!



Actually, there are often short time deals on cameras before they hit the stores, so expect to see a small 50 or 75 dollar discount. I can get between 5 and 10 percent off thru my employer, it barely pays the sales tax.


----------



## PureClassA (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I guess I figured after being in here for several years, I'd be used to trolls who show up to complain about every new model being the "DEATH OF CANON!" but alas, it still amazes me. Canon is still on top the market by a huge margin because they make great cameras professionals prefer on average above all the rest. For $1999 you get a FF Canon sensor with the new sensor build, 26MP DPAF, 45AF Cross types, and I'm guessing 5-6fps? It's a fantastic successor to the 6D which I still love. As I mentioned earlier, it's arguably a successor to the 5D3 with about 20% higher resolution and the new sensor tech, but for $1500 less than a 5D3 at launch. What are we complaining about??? I skipped the 5D4. I have a 5D3 and a 5DSR so the 30MP of the 5D4 just wasn't as appealing an investment to me as a 1DX2 at that point, which I bought and utterly adore. But this 6D2? I am VERY interested at $1999. The only thing stopping me is the rumor of a new 135L and 85L. There's only so many $ to spend here and the 6D2 might take a back seat for a year. But it's still a VERY desirable spec sheet for me and I promise you a LOT of others. Imagine these wedding pros still sitting on a bank of 5D3's? They may have picked up a 5D4 or two, but they may buy two 6D2 bodies for only slightly more than the cost of a single 5D4.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

As someone who owns:
a comprehensive set of EF lenses (8mm to 200mm)
Full frame Canon cameras 
Canon 80D

I have one question for Canon: "What does the 6D-II offer over the 80D?"

So far the only thing I'm seeing is 8% higher resolution files (aka 4% larger linear resolution)


----------



## Famateur (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



PureClassA said:


> ...Imagine these wedding pros still sitting on a bank of 5D3's? They may have picked up a 5D4 or two, but they may *buy two 6D2 bodies for only slightly more than the cost of a single 5D4*.



Now *that's* one way to have a second card slot.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > ...Imagine these wedding pros still sitting on a bank of 5D3's? They may have picked up a 5D4 or two, but they may *buy two 6D2 bodies for only slightly more than the cost of a single 5D4*.
> ...


... depending on Wireless speed and reliability, you could potentially use a mobile device as your "backup card" (at the cost of battery life.)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



StudentOfLight said:


> As someone who owns:
> a comprehensive set of EF lenses (8mm to 200mm)
> Full frame Canon cameras
> Canon 80D
> ...



A sensor 2.56-times larger, meaning ~1.33 stops more light gathered. What's a stop of light worth? Ask the 300/4 vs 2.8, or the 200/2.8 vs 2.0. Heck, even the 70-200/4 vs 2.8 runs less than the 80D vs 6DII.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



StudentOfLight said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...


You still need a dedicated videographer to live-stream the wedding.....


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

It's so hard to get excited over this spec list. In 2 years time this could become Canon's best camera, i.e. after magiclanternification


----------



## a4jp.com (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

No 4K recording even though 8K monitors are on sale now, 45pt AF, and 1 memory card slot... 
Why doesn't Canon try something special? 
The rest of the specs look okay though. 
I waited years for the Mark 5 IV to come out too only to find out the double cards were both the old type 
Maybe it's time to get a sensor and try and make a camera from all these parts. 
A Frakencanon lol.


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## PureClassA (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



StudentOfLight said:


> I have one question for Canon: "What does the 6D-II offer over the 80D?"



A markedly better, Full Frame sensor? Not that the 80D is a slouch, but come on. Really?


----------



## PureClassA (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



a4jp.com said:


> No 4K recording even though 8K monitors are on sale now, 45pt AF, and 1 memory card slot...
> Why doesn't Canon try something special?
> The rest of the specs look okay though.
> I waited years for the Mark 5 IV to come out too only to find out the double cards were both the old type
> ...



Know what's special? The fact that they are going to sell a crap ton of these and make a bunch of money while Nikon is still in a fiscal mess


----------



## sanj (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> CombatClaret said:
> 
> 
> > If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.
> ...



Is it possible that the margin on 5d4 is more? Perhaps?


----------



## sanj (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

My main interest in 6D is a light body. The size comparison with 5d is not so much.
Does anyone know if version 2 is lighter than original?


----------



## PureClassA (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



sanj said:


> My main interest in 6D is a light body. The size comparison with 5d is not so much.
> Does anyone know if version 2 is lighter than original?



According to rumor the body is slightly bigger, so I'd guess no


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > As someone who owns:
> ...


My question was more from a point of view of "What have you done for me lately" 

1.3 stops more light is not worth much to me as I already have full frame cameras if I need the extra light gathering capability.

(Question: how significant is the Nikon D810's 13.7 stops of DR vs 5D-III's 11 stops of DR? I would assume 1.33 stops of FF vs APS-C would amount to a smaller difference in image quality.)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



sanj said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CombatClaret said:
> ...



Sure, it's possible. It's equally possible that the margin on the 6D is higher. I don't know...do you? Perhaps?


----------



## sanj (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I know nothing. The 5d4 is priced higher so perhaps profit margin are bit higher. It is possible.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



StudentOfLight said:


> Question: how significant is the Nikon D810's 13.7 stops of DR vs 5D-III's 11 stops of DR? I would assume 1.33 stops of FF vs APS-C would amount to a smaller difference in image quality.



Depends entirely on what/how you shoot.

Despite the years of trolling on the subject here and everywhere else on the www, as far as I can see, high low ISO DR only _really_ helps if you're in the habit of drastically under-exposing images and have to drag shadows up by multiple stops (ie - you're _not a very capable photographer_ - if you know how to expose a shot properly, it's an irrelevance  ).

(I'm only half joking here: there is some argument that gobs of low ISO DR allows for more flexibility in generating HDR/tonemapping-style imagery without the need for multiple exposures, but by definition, in order to _see_ the benefits of low ISO DR, you have to wrangle the shadows of a file order to manifest the difference). 

But if you routinely shoot in low light, FF light gathering makes for significantly lower ISOs at any given shutter speed, and (in theory, anyway) better image quality.

But this last is hugely dependent on the cameras under discussion - many current crop sensors are miles better at high ISO than older FF sensors.


----------



## AvTvM (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

specs and price are ok! if it comes without mirror in a body as compact as a Sony A7 i will buy one!


----------



## zim (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Nice specs, like it.
Interested to see how those 45AF points are handled without a multi-controller. The equivalent on the top right on the touch screen?


----------



## PixelTrawler (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

As someone who bought a 5d4, that 6d2 spec list is amazing for almost half the money. 
You could have 2 of them almost for 1 5d4. Thats crazy.

This thing is going to sell like crazy. I can see it denting 5d4 sales.


----------



## mb66energy (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



StudentOfLight said:


> As someone who owns:
> a comprehensive set of EF lenses (8mm to 200mm)
> Full frame Canon cameras
> Canon 80D
> ...



The 5D released in 2005 outperforms the EOS M released in 2012 in terms of IQ while having less resolution
... if
* you shoot above ISO 200 in terms of noise / silkiness of transitions
* you shoot low contrast scenes where you have to make things visible by adding extreme contrast
during post processing (moving black and white point) - think about fog, clouds, etc.
(The 5D brought back Kodachrome clarity for low contrast scenes to me!)
* you are in need for shallow depth of field
* you need very good per pixel quality from the center to the edges / corners of the image -
5D with e.g. 2.8 40 / 2.8 100 non-IS / 4.0 70-200 IS gives stellar image quality

While just the EOS M can deliver great images under the right conditions the 5D is superior in nearly all respects except live view (not available), weight (its a brick) and size. So I expect a large improvement in terms of per pixel IQ from the 6Dii compared to the 80D.

Maybe I will order the 6D ii ... if the IQ gain is important for my photography. But ... using the studio scene comparisons of dp review where they added the 5D classic shows to me that there are only marginal improvements in sheer IQ if you do not NEED a megapixel monster. (Besides from DR improvements).


----------



## Maiaibing (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> The good news is, we can come back in four years and see how all the predictions went. If the value proposition for competing products is materially better, it will be reflected in the market.


6D did not do well at the beginning as it was seen as overpriced. After a few months the prrice came somewhat down and sales seemingly picked up. I think I got mine for ~1.200 USD and I've seen 6D as low as ~1.000 USD. That was great value for sure.

It seems to me that 1.999$ is a better entry point for the 6DII than the original 6D price. We are getting more camera for less USD - looking good. 

I still expect a fairly rapid price drop in the street price with maybe ~150-200$ after a 2-3 months as we saw for the 5DIV and the 5DS/R before that.


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Maiaibing said:


> It seems to me that 1.999$ is a better entry point for the 6DII than the original 6D price. We are getting more camera for less USD - looking good.



I think that's just the dollar effect. It's stronger vs. the Yen than when the 6D was introduced. I'm expecting the euro price to be a little higher than the 6D's introduction price in euro.


----------



## timglowik (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Didn't say anything about leaving  Too many lenses to leave - i'd rather say no further investment in the future and passing the old equipment to my interns or assistants ... the sensor of the 5d iv can compete, it's really good and finally has a nice enough (stilll not the best) dynamic range and a good enough lowlight iso - the auto focus is giving me some headache during some light conditions, 4k is terrible (i don't need it anyway) and silent mode is somehow louder than on my 5d3 - af points are also kind of "big" and sometimes I wish they were smaller and hard to set accurate. If the focus is right there where i want it to be - its a good camera - but overprized (worth 2500 euro - not 3700). I'd by one more if it was cheaper.
The 6D M2 with 2 SD card slots would have been a nice camera to invest some more money in to replace our old 6ds (biggest problem is the lag of a 2nd sd card slot, thats why i am looking for a replacement) - two 5d ivs are just too much money i am paying for features i don't need ... 

The problem is that they won't be able to compete in the future if they continue like nothing changed.. Tried a sony a year ago .. image quality is awesome, af was on the level of my 5d IV. Didn't balcance to good in my hands, also no 2 memory card slots, terrible menue.. didn't get one yet - but sony is on the market just for a few years and overtook nikon in the US. I want canon to compete harder with other brands .. I don't want to bash canon, they did such an amazing job in the past .. just recently i am kind of disappointed .. thats why I might have sound a bit disappointed .. sorry for bashing, hope dies last, so please canon step up in the game. 

So one day i might have so much gear which is not canon, that I might change to an other brand, yes. But i am still hoping for the "princess" to wake up .. 

cheers .


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## -1 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



timglowik said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



I feel your pain and I'm here for ya, bro! Get the stuff below and you should be set:

https://www.adorama.com/isoa9gk.html

Und!

https://www.adorama.com/fdeosnexp.html

)


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## IglooEater (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Thanks


----------



## BillB (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



StudentOfLight said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



It seems to me that there are at least three pieces to question of what the 6DII might be able to do for you that the 80D can't. At this point, the answers are somewhat theoretical, and there is something less than unanimity on these theoretical answers among those of us who post on this forum.

First Question: How big do you want to print? Up to a certain print size, there isn't much practical difference, depending on the eyesight and the tolerance of the observer. At some print size, however, theoretically, a FF camera will produce prints that are significantly better than a crop, even if the sensors of the two cameras have the same number of pixels. We may have endless hours of fun debating this after the 6DII makes its appearance, but my guess is that there won't be much practical difference below 12"by 18", at least at lower ISO levels, which leads to--

Second Question: What ISO levels are important to you? Again in theory, the print quality from a crop camera will deteriorate faster than the print quality from a FF camera, as ISO's increase, and this leads us back to the question of how large do you want to print. If you want to print large at high ISO's, the FF will have an advantage over the crop. I'm not going to make a guess at what print sizes we would be talking about as ISO is increased.

Another Question: What lenses do you want to use? Basically, this applies to the normal through ultrawide ranges. For FF, there are many very good options in the normal through ultrawide ranges, both zooms and primes. For crop, the choices may be more limited, and several posters on this forum believe that there are critical gaps in the primes that meet the needs of crop users. On the other hand, over the past few years, Canon has developed some very good, inexpensive zooms for use with crop cameras.


----------



## goldenhusky (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



> The problem is that they won't be able to compete in the future if they continue like nothing changed.. Tried a sony a year ago .. image quality is awesome, af was on the level of my 5d IV. Didn't balcance to good in my hands, also no 2 memory card slots, terrible menue.. didn't get one yet - but sony is on the market just for a few years and overtook nikon in the US. I want canon to compete harder with other brands .. I don't want to bash canon, they did such an amazing job in the past .. just recently i am kind of disappointed .. thats why I might have sound a bit disappointed .. sorry for bashing, hope dies last, so please canon step up in the game.
> 
> So one day i might have so much gear which is not canon, that I might change to an other brand, yes. But i am still hoping for the "princess" to wake up ..
> 
> cheers .



I am also one among those who complain Canon is not competing enough when compared to Sony in terms of specs but there are other aspects. I tried Sony and still have a6500, Here are my problems with Sony
In spite of all the glaring reviews a6000 was a terrible camera when compared to a Rebel t5i I had at that time. I would get a 2/3 of shots in focus on the t5i Vs 1/3 on the a6000 given the same lighting conditions.
I do not like the picture quality of Sony. The black appears greenish to me. The colors are better in Canon
Sony build quality is just ok. If you search in the internet you will find stories of G master lenses that break apart from lens mount, cameras with weird errors, etc.
Sony lenses are overpriced compared to Canon equivalents.
Copy to copy variation is really bad with Sony. So the chances of getting a very good copy of any given equipment is 50:50 may be even worse.
Customer service is pretty much non-existent. I have dealt with Canon and Sony customer service. At least the people who I talked to in Canon seems to be knowledgeable Vs Sony experience felt like I am talking to someone clueless and reading their scripts over and over.
Canon has a excellent warranty and post warranty service. I had to service one of my Canon lens and the experience was really nice.
Lens collection - I know Sony is closing in on this but with questionable product quality

So to be fair there are pros and cons. To me Sony is not good enough to make a complete switch over yet.


----------



## dak723 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



StudentOfLight said:


> As someone who owns:
> a comprehensive set of EF lenses (8mm to 200mm)
> Full frame Canon cameras
> Canon 80D
> ...



If you already have FF cameras, then I wouldn't even consider replacing the 80D with a 6D. When I bought my original 6D, there were many shots that I could not satisfactorily get on FF compared to crop. So I bought a new crop as well. The versatility of having both was a big plus, in my opinion. I know the FF is always better crowd will jump up and down in disagreement, but it depends a lot on what you shoot. Unless you are looking to replace an older FF with the new 6D (which sounds like a great upgrade to me), then keep what you have.


----------



## Drew.bowser (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I am genuinely upset about the fact that it only has a single card slot. Nikon has it from the D7000 up and Canon even put it in the 7d2. Seems so stupid that they would omit it from a camera that is higher end than the 7d2!


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Drew.bowser said:


> I am genuinely upset about the fact that it only has a single card slot. Nikon has it from the D7000 up and Canon even put it in the 7d2. Seems so stupid that they would omit it from a camera that is higher end than the 7d2!



6D is higher end than then 7D2? If you say so....


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## Diamir (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



goldenhusky said:


> [...] cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. [...]



Cellphones don't *need* a GSM signal to have coordinates. They don't *need* maps to have coordinates neither.
Some applications need maps to show data. But it is a problem releted to the application. Most of the time the applications *like* to have a data connexion to ease the GPS fix: with a cold start, a GPS needs a continuous 30 seconds stream from one satellite to get the ephemeris of the whole constellation. If the choosen satellite is lost during this stream, it choose an other one and retry, ... and again... With a data connection, you can get AGPS data. AGPS will download from the internet a "fresh" ephemeris table which avoid the initial – long – download, then the table is updated together with the positionning data. See: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

I've never heard that the M6 GPS is "cellphone based"... Even if the chip is the same as in a cellphone, a M6 doesnt have a SIM card and neither a GSM receiver.

Regards

Jean-Luc


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## tmroper (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Chaitanya said:


> What a bunch of regressive apologistic bunch of monkeys are explaining the dumb Canon's feature crippling on their cameras to protect more expensive cameras in line up. Since you monkeys dont want upgraded features like 4k, dual SD slots, etc... why dont you just go back to shooting film since thats what you like.



I have been shooting film a lot more these days, and recently got an EOS 1N, to use with my current Canon lenses. I've never used a film camera like that before, and I'll be honest, I keep thinking, why can't a DSLR be more like it? It's basic, very fast to use, and has all I need in terms of functionality. Even the 5 AF points in a horizontal line seem to be just about enough. What a great camera! But I do need digital most of the time, and the 6DII sounds great to me (touch AF and articulating screens are what make a camera modern today, and I like them both a lot).


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## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Drew.bowser said:
> 
> 
> > I am genuinely upset about the fact that it only has a single card slot. Nikon has it from the D7000 up and Canon even put it in the 7d2. Seems so stupid that they would omit it from a camera that is higher end than the 7d2!
> ...



Of course the 6D is a higher end camera.... that's why the weather sealing.... and the 65 point AF system.... and the dual processors.... and 10FPS.... oh wait, it doesn't have any of those......


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## einstein72586 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

This is my very first post on this site so I fully expect someone to argue with me. As a hobbyist that has debated upgrading from crop(7d mark II) to a full frame(have been waiting for the 6d mark II), I have experienced card failure first hand and I am thankful that my camera has dual slots. The extra slot saved pictures that I would of lost from a two week vacation overseas in the Philippines. The idea of a semi-pro camera that cost more then mine with only one card slot has killed my notion of upgrading to the 6d mark II or even having it as a second body. I am good with all the other specs, but one card slot I have learned is dangerous.


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## HaroldC3 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Diamir said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > [...] cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. [...]
> ...



It's not cellphone based (in that it doesn't have a sim card in the camera). You have to pair the camera with your cell phone and use the cell phone GPS to get the data to the camera.


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## Diamir (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> I spend my X dollars on a 6D2 and TWO lenses....
> 
> Canon cries all the way to the bank.....



OR: you buy a 6D2 and ONE lens and... you by a nice necklace to you wife (or a dress)... 8)


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## wildwalker (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Drew.bowser said:
> 
> 
> > I am genuinely upset about the fact that it only has a single card slot. Nikon has it from the D7000 up and Canon even put it in the 7d2. Seems so stupid that they would omit it from a camera that is higher end than the 7d2!
> ...



Lets see, xxxx is lowest range, then xxx, then xx then x. Now 5 is higher range that 6, 6 is higher range than 7. 

1 is the highest of them all.

So yes, 6 is a higher model range than 7. The clue was in the numbering system!!!


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## wildwalker (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



einstein72586 said:


> This is my very first post on this site so I fully expect someone to argue with me. As a hobbyist that has debated upgrading from crop(7d mark II) to a full frame(have been waiting for the 6d mark II), I have experienced card failure first hand and I am thankful that my camera has dual slots. The extra slot saved pictures that I would of lost from a two week vacation overseas in the Philippines. The idea of a semi-pro camera that cost more then mine with only one card slot has killed my notion of upgrading to the 6d mark II or even having it as a second body. I am good with all the other specs, but one card slot I have learned is dangerous.



Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. But I don't think the Canon 6D range is Semi Pro? I would say that is what the 5 range is.


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## photogdan (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > This is awesome news. The 6D II is turning out exactly how I hoped it would, a full frame 80D with improved sensor and even cheaper than I thought. I was hoping for $2200, and expecting $2400. coming in at $1999 is an awesome surprise. If that is the actual price then I will pre-order instead of waiting for CPW to get a lower street price which usually happens 1-2 months after release.
> ...



Unless you live in NY or NJ... B&H and Adorama don't charge you sales tax.


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## wildwalker (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Drew.bowser said:
> ...



Wow weather sealing, that is always the top of my list (no really, it isn't)

AF system is good yes.
Dual Digic 6, not Digic 7 as in 6DMk2
10FPS from a crop sensor, not full frame.

So yes, if you need full frame, the AF and Weather sealing in a 7DMk2 don't count for much.

Their is a reason the 7DMk2 has the number 7 and not 6, and costs half what the 6DMk2 will.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



dak723 said:


> When I bought my original 6D, there were many shots that I could not satisfactorily get on FF compared to crop. So I bought a new crop as well. The versatility of having both was a big plus, in my opinion. I know the FF is always better crowd will jump up and down in disagreement, but it depends a lot on what you shoot.



FF sensors will always deliver better IQ than crop sensors, period. But, sensors don't take pictures...cameras do. The 7-series offers great performance for moving subjects, but it's the top crop camera. When I had a 7D and bought a 5DII, I continued using the 7D for birds/wildlife. After getting the 1D X, which combines FF IQ and top performance, the 7D no longer offered any benefit. For me, the M series does – I'm willing to trade IQ and performance for smaller kit size.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Drew.bowser said:
> ...



sure if you ignore common sense, that the 7D Mark II is basically a baby 1DX, and the 6D is a full frame version of pretty much the 77D.

the 7D Mark II counterpart in full frame is the 5D Mark IV
the 6D counterpart is somewhere less than the 80D

but yeah, consider it a higher tier.. :


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## photogdan (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



timglowik said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



I feel your pain but more competition will introduce better Canon technology.

Sony cherry picked a period in April 2017 where they sold more cameras than Nikon and crowned themselves #2 in the market. If they did YTD, they would still be #3 by a lot.

To me it's all about the eco systems, quality and support. I have owned many Canon DSLR's. Not once it have any malfunctioned or overheated. I've also never heard of Canon's overheating. I've never owned a Sony but overheating seems to be debated daily by Sony users. It may not be an issue for all but the issue exists. And it affects the entire Sony APS-C and FF mirrorless lineup.

Canon charges a premium for their professional lenses. Sony seems to think they deserve an even larger premium for their recently introduced professional lenses.


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## Drew.bowser (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



The 6d came our before the 7d2 I believe. Before hat even the 5d2 only had 1 slot. Considering that he 6d2 is more expensive than the 7d2. There is not logical reason that canon shouldn't put in 2 slots. They are gimping a product to sell more 5d4s


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## brad-man (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



einstein72586 said:


> This is my very first post on this site so I fully expect someone to argue with me. As a hobbyist that has debated upgrading from crop(7d mark II) to a full frame(have been waiting for the 6d mark II), I have experienced card failure first hand and I am thankful that my camera has dual slots. The extra slot saved pictures that I would of lost from a two week vacation overseas in the Philippines. The idea of a semi-pro camera that cost more then mine with only one card slot has killed my notion of upgrading to the 6d mark II or even having it as a second body. I am good with all the other specs, but one card slot I have learned is dangerous.



Hello and welcome. Would you mind sharing with us the brand and model of card that failed? I use Sandisk Extreme & Extreme Pro and have never had a card fail. Thanks.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Drew.bowser said:


> They are gimping a product to sell more 5d4s



Wow! Why on earth would they do that?



Seriously - I doubt that the lack of a card slot would make most potential 6D II buyers buy a 5D IV - they're aimed at different niches, with different needs: and the 6D's target audience doesn't really _need_ two slots.


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## LukasS (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



CanonGuy said:


> You lost business from me at single SD card slot. Well.dine canon! Way to go.



Yeah if it was a CF only then I would not feel that bad, but as I have mostly CF cards I feel quite bad about this choice. Hopefully it's not 100% confirmed.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



einstein72586 said:


> The idea of a semi-pro camera that cost more then mine with only one card slot has killed my notion of upgrading to the 6d mark II or even having it as a second body. I am good with all the other specs, but one card slot I have learned is dangerous.



Well, as someone who uses a camera with 2 card slots, I have to tell you that it's a pretty common choice among wildlife/action/sport 'togs to use the second slot not as back-up, but in order to ensure plentiful storage capacity so as not to miss shots (possibly _the_ shot) due to filling the card(s).

And we do this confidently, _because card failures are vanishingly rare_, assuming properly-sourced, quality cards are used.

Like Brad-man, I haven't had a single card fail in the 12 years I've been using DSLRs.

Besides - how didn't you know that the card had failed while it was still in the camera? Just pop in a new card and keep shooting...


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Chaitanya said:


> What a bunch of regressive apologistic bunch of monkeys are explaining the dumb Canon's feature crippling on their cameras to protect more expensive cameras in line up. Since you monkeys dont want upgraded features like 4k, dual SD slots, etc... why dont you just go back to shooting film since thats what you like.



That's big talk, princess...

Just because your priorities aren't ours, that doesn't make us regressive or apologistic - it just means that Canon gets what _we_ need, and provides it. 

_Keyboard warriors - don't you just love 'em?_


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## Billybob (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

A bit off topic but after assessing my needs, I realize that the 6D is simply not the camera for me. Don't get me wrong, the camera has just about everything I expected it to have. Sure, I could ask for more like a 6fps burst rate, a no-AA-filter version, and improved DR, but none of those things are addressing an unmet need. You see I started switching to Nikon several years ago. However, due to perceived holes in Nikon's lens lineup, I never got rid of my Canon lenses. I stupidly continued to buy Canon lenses that I thought were superior to Nikon's version or for which Nikon didn't have a match. So, even though I sold my 70-200 L II (replaced with a 70-200G f/4, I didn't need the speed), I kept my 70-300 L, 85mm L, and acquired the 70-400 L II and 24-70 L II. I sold all my Canon bodies (6D and 5DIII) in anticipation of the 5DIV. However, the 5DIV was too much camera given my increasing Nikon focus, so I bought an 80D when on sale for $850 and hunkered down to wait for the 6D. 

Well, times have changed. Canon has no compelling lens for my shooting style that I can't replace with either a wonderful Nikon version or an excellent third party lens (e.g., no one makes an equivalent 70-300L, but the Sigma 100-400 C provides better IQ in an equally compact package). I'm hoping that the Sigma 24-70 Art will be very good to excellent. If so, then my 24-70L II will be for sale.

So, why was I looking at the 6DII? It was either GAS, or a desire to get some use out of Canon lenses. Stupid reasons. Baby, it's finally time to cut the cord and get off the fence and recognize that I'm a Nikon guy. There's nothing wrong with Canon. It's just my personal preference. I like the DR of Nikon cameras, and I dislike sensors with AA filters. After starting with Canon, I still have to say that I prefer Canon ergonomics, but not enough to go back.

Therefore, if there is a take away from this tangential soliloquy, it's to really focus on your needs. If you are upgrading, does this new camera offer you anything that is truly missing from your current photography? If yes, then might that need be better addressed with a 5DIII? I don't regret selling mine (see reasons above), but the III is an incredible camera. Very responsive, reliable, and a joy to work with. I doubt that the 6DII's IQ will be vastly superior. The 6DII would have to have extremely compelling features (at least one) for me to pick it over the 5DIII.

Anyway, good luck on your buying decisions, and happy shooting!


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## dak723 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > When I bought my original 6D, there were many shots that I could not satisfactorily get on FF compared to crop. So I bought a new crop as well. The versatility of having both was a big plus, in my opinion. I know the FF is always better crowd will jump up and down in disagreement, but it depends a lot on what you shoot.
> ...



Yes, they do. No argument there. Of course, I made no mention of IQ. But I guess some people just have to be argumentative - even if they don't read or understand what is written by the other person!


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## hbr (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Billybob said:


> A bit off topic but after assessing my needs, I realize that the 6D is simply not the camera for me. Don't get me wrong, the camera has just about everything I expected it to have. Sure, I could ask for more like a 6fps burst rate, a no-AA-filter version, and improved DR, but none of those things are addressing an unmet need. You see I started switching to Nikon several years ago. However, due to perceived holes in Nikon's lens lineup, I never got rid of my Canon lenses. I stupidly continued to buy Canon lenses that I thought were superior to Nikon's version or for which Nikon didn't have a match. So, even though I sold my 70-200 L II (replaced with a 70-200G f/4, I didn't need the speed), I kept my 70-300 L, 85mm L, and acquired the 70-400 L II and 24-70 L II. I sold all my Canon bodies (6D and 5DIII) in anticipation of the 5DIV. However, the 5DIV was too much camera given my increasing Nikon focus, so I bought an 80D when on sale for $850 and hunkered down to wait for the 6D.
> 
> Well, times have changed. Canon has no compelling lens for my shooting style that I can't replace with either a wonderful Nikon version or an excellent third party lens (e.g., no one makes an equivalent 70-300L, but the Sigma 100-400 C provides better IQ in an equally compact package). I'm hoping that the Sigma 24-70 Art will be very good to excellent. If so, then my 24-70L II will be for sale.
> 
> ...



At least you are honest and not calling Canon users "Suckers," and That Canon is a stupid company. None of us in this thread has knocked Nikon as they make great cameras. 
In photography it is all about personal preference and finding the best tool for the job at hand and one that the photographer can afford.

Cheers, man and good luck.


----------



## Frederik_Bo (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

What I dont get about omitting 4K is that they are putting a tilty-flippy screen on this thing. A tilty-flippy screen is in my opinion, a very video centric feature. I know that it is also handy for stills, but just about every dedicated videocamera, that comes with a screen, comes with on that can be tiltet and flipped. This is not so much the standerd for stills cameras, at least not for high ones.

The tilty-flippy screen combined with, Dual pixel autofocus and 4K would have been great.

one of the reasons the 80d was great for video was the tilty-flippy screen. 

If canon is really omitting features to push customers towarts higher end models, I guess it is working. I will properly be buying a 5d Mark 4 instead, in order to get 4K video


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



dak723 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



I don't believe this is always the truth.... If you are not reach limited (you can zoom by lens or by foot) then you can get the FF and crop images framed the same and (assuming similar technology levels) the FF camera wins for image quality.

If you are dealing with an old FF camera and a new crop camera, depending on the models involved, the crop may have better high ISO performance.... for example, my 5D2 and 7D2 are similar in poor light.

If you are reach limited (assuming similar technology levels), the crop (usually) gives you more pixels on the target, but the pixels of the FF are of better quality. Which one is better depends on what you are trying to do. For example, when trying to do inventory verification of objects mounted on a 9M dish, you care more about reading the serial number than how nice the picture is.... and if you can do it with a camera from the ground instead of going to get the genie-lift and driving it 3K to the dish, and then back, at 5Kph........

So yes, USUALLY the FF camera is better, but under certain conditions, not always....


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Frederik_Bo said:


> What I dont get about omitting 4K is that they are putting a tilty-flippy screen on this thing. A tilty-flippy screen is in my opinion, a very video centric feature. I know that it is also handy for stills, but just about every dedicated videocamera, that comes with a screen, comes with on that can be tiltet and flipped. This is not so much the standerd for stills cameras, at least not for high ones.
> 
> The tilty-flippy screen combined with, Dual pixel autofocus and 4K would have been great.
> 
> ...


I wonder if the lack of 4K comes down to not having dual digic processors.....


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Its all in the numbers, don't overthink it.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Drew.bowser said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...



it's a full frame camera and not a crop camera. of course it's going to be more expensive.

they probably don't care at all if you purchase a 6D versus a 5D Mark IV, the gimping and cripping idiotic comments are just that.

the A7R II was 3500 at launch, it didn't have dual slots. since when is cost a factor?


----------



## TedBedlam (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

As someone looking to convert to Canon - a dirth of customer service horror stories is one big reason after dealing with multiple issues on the Panasonic front over the past decade - I have had money in the bank for nearly 2 years waiting for a model that meets my needs. In spite of the lack of 4k (and a good 30% of my work is video) I think this body hits a lot of marks for my stills and allows me to work as a second shooter for the canon loyalists in the wedding field that will accept no other gear. A lot of complaints seem to be emerging about pricing when compared to comparable bodies from other brands, but considering the competition's notoriety for poor service (I've gleaned a lot of complaints from Sony and Nikon users though I don't own any myself), is an extra couple hundred bucks really all that terrible? Or maybe accounts have been exaggerated by those who have received poor after-purchase interactions with their various providers? After losing several gigs worth of work due to the repair facilities at Panasonic, I'm a little paranoid.

On a different note, the lack of 4k might be somewhat ameliorated among the video crowd if there is either 1) an excellent codec with 4:2:2 10 bit color space or 2) in-body sensor stabilization that works in tandem with canon lenses. I'm a pretty slow student when it comes to deciphering these early specs and would be interested what the likelihood is that these features might show up at the end of the month.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



sanj said:


> sabeast said:
> 
> 
> > Which camera would you guys recommend, Canon 5D Mark IV, Wait For 6D Mark II, Sony A7Rii For Fashion, Street, Product Photography?
> ...



The 5Ds is worth considering, too.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



shutterlag said:


> Holy crap are you kidding me? I haven't been following Canon, but dang, that's fracking horrible. The D750 with the 24-120 F4, 51-pt AF, same or better DR/ISO, from 2014 is $2k. At what point does Canon start competing with Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc. and stop competing with themselves?



It's unfair to compare the street price of a 3 year old camera to the launch RRP of a brand new one, but you knew that already.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> it's a full frame camera and not a crop camera. of course it's going to be more expensive.



This is a key point that people seem to have forgotten. While the price of FF sensors has come down, they will always be more expensive than APS-C. Saying 'the 6D costs more than the 7D so it should have all the features of the latter and more' ignores this fact. (Obviously the price reflects a whole range of things, but the different sensor sizes and therefore costs is important).


----------



## BillB (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Frederik_Bo said:


> What I dont get about omitting 4K is that they are putting a tilty-flippy screen on this thing. A tilty-flippy screen is in my opinion, a very video centric feature. I know that it is also handy for stills, but just about every dedicated videocamera, that comes with a screen, comes with on that can be tiltet and flipped. This is not so much the standerd for stills cameras, at least not for high ones.
> 
> The tilty-flippy screen combined with, Dual pixel autofocus and 4K would have been great.
> 
> ...



The 6DII will have video, although not 4K video. So, the tilty/flippy and the dual pixel autofocus on the 6DII will be used for video purposes by a fair number of people, I would guess.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Chaitanya said:


> What a bunch of regressive apologistic bunch of monkeys are explaining the dumb Canon's feature crippling on their cameras to protect more expensive cameras in line up. Since you monkeys dont want upgraded features like 4k, dual SD slots, etc... why dont you just go back to shooting film since thats what you like.



What an unmitigated ass you are, making thoroughly unwarranted assumptions, and insulting those who understand something about corporate strategy and the ILC market. Why don't you crawl back into your troll cave where you belong.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...



65 Af points compared to thirty-something.....
10FPs compared to 5 or 6....
2 card slots compared to 1.....
Dual digic compared to single......

It's all in the numbers, don't overthink it.


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Chaitanya said:


> Since you monkeys dont want upgraded features like 4k, dual SD slots, etc.



Of course we want them...why did you think we don't?


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*




Chaitanya said:


> Since you monkeys dont want upgraded features like 4k, dual SD slots, etc.



May I ask how insulting people makes your opinion any more valid?


----------



## PBguy (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I have to laugh at all the complaining going on about the lack of 4K video considering we actually don't know whether it'll be included or not. Have people forgotten that it's just rumored to not have 4K?

We don't even know for sure when it'll actually be announced.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Chaitanya said:


> What a bunch of regressive apologistic bunch of monkeys are explaining the dumb Canon's feature crippling on their cameras to protect more expensive cameras in line up. Since you monkeys dont want upgraded features like 4k, dual SD slots, etc... why dont you just go back to shooting film since thats what you like.



good grief your daddy needs a better password on his computer.

yeah, it's improving the viewfinder, AF, sensor, etc - all the things that photographers care about - it's such a poor camera body.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



PBguy said:


> I have to laugh at all the complaining going on about the lack of 4K video considering we actually don't know whether it'll be included or not. Have people forgotten that it's just rumored to not have 4K?
> 
> We don't even know for sure when it'll actually be announced.



honestly it would not surprise me if it's not. canon doesn't really have DIGIC ready yet for 4K. they are simply way behind the times with this, and no matter how much thumb sucking happens over the lack of 4K it isn't going to change much.

it's still going to sell like hotcakes, and the few that need video will STFU and finally find something that works for them. or they will remain here, sniffling and blaming their lack of youtube likes on canon technology.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

DIGIC 7 handles 7 fps / fps at 24MP (12bit mode) and 6 fps at 14 bit mode on the 77D.

so is it safe to assume that this is around 5.5 fps up from 4.4fps?


----------



## zim (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Billybob said:


> A bit off topic but after assessing my needs, I realize that the 6D is simply not the camera for me. Don't get me wrong, the camera has just about everything I expected it to have. Sure, I could ask for more like a 6fps burst rate, a no-AA-filter version, and improved DR, but none of those things are addressing an unmet need. You see I started switching to Nikon several years ago. However, due to perceived holes in Nikon's lens lineup, I never got rid of my Canon lenses. I stupidly continued to buy Canon lenses that I thought were superior to Nikon's version or for which Nikon didn't have a match. So, even though I sold my 70-200 L II (replaced with a 70-200G f/4, I didn't need the speed), I kept my 70-300 L, 85mm L, and acquired the 70-400 L II and 24-70 L II. I sold all my Canon bodies (6D and 5DIII) in anticipation of the 5DIV. However, the 5DIV was too much camera given my increasing Nikon focus, so I bought an 80D when on sale for $850 and hunkered down to wait for the 6D.
> 
> Well, times have changed. Canon has no compelling lens for my shooting style that I can't replace with either a wonderful Nikon version or an excellent third party lens (e.g., no one makes an equivalent 70-300L, but the Sigma 100-400 C provides better IQ in an equally compact package). I'm hoping that the Sigma 24-70 Art will be very good to excellent. If so, then my 24-70L II will be for sale.
> 
> ...



Well said sir, I may disagree with you on some part but unlike others in this thread I think you might actually take photographs!!
Regards


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> PBguy said:
> 
> 
> > I have to laugh at all the complaining going on about the lack of 4K video considering we actually don't know whether it'll be included or not. Have people forgotten that it's just rumored to not have 4K?
> ...



My suspicion is that the Digic architecture can not handle 4K.... The 1DX2 and 5D4 have dual digic, which obviously can, but it there a single example of 4K running on a single digic?


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> 65 Af points compared to thirty-something.....
> 10FPs compared to 5 or 6....
> 2 card slots compared to 1.....
> Dual digic compared to single......
> ...



And no full frame, thats why the 6 is a higher model, you over thought it....


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PBguy said:
> ...



Well I guess we will ave to wait until Canon produce a UHD camera that uses Digic 7 to find out if it needs one or two? 5DMk4 is Digic 6 (plus?)


----------



## BillB (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PBguy said:
> ...



Another piece of the puzzle is what the DIGIC 7 processing capacity is being used for in the 6DII. People wanted wiz bang AF performance, and they got it, more or less, but that is going to require processing capacity.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PBguy said:
> ...



the dual digics are "sorta" handling it.

it's outside of the real video stream and canon is basically scraping 30 frames a second off the sensor in JPEG mode.

the only encoded 4K that canon does is with the DIGIC DV's .. that are not camera related.


----------



## monkey44 (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Canon makes a pretty nice video camera for those that want it - me, personally, don't care a lick about video, and in all my years shooting images, have never once shot video ... I suppose some can confuse photographers with videographers ... but I don't, and know both. So, 4k video missing in a 6D2 is irrelevant. 

In my years as a wildlife and sports shooter, I began with Canon and never found a reason to change - it does everything I need, and a lot of things I don't need or use. But to consider a change for reasons of video performance, or even complain about it is beyond my comprehension. Buy the tools you need that do what you want your gear to do without complaining that it's "missing something" ... we can't have everything in every camera, so decide what is worth it to you, and buy it, or if something is missing that you need, don't buy it.

In more than twenty years shooting both professionally and privately for my own pleasure, I've never had a Canon product fail - and as I recall it, only one card that was dead on arrival and replaced by B&H ... Maybe I'm just lucky.


----------



## daphins (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Precisely the camera I want at the price I need. Super excited!


----------



## padam (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PBguy said:
> ...



This is simply not true.
The 5DIII which is now very old technology with a much slower processor can almost handle 3.8k RAW cropped with a firmware hack, and that wasn't even designed for that in the first place...

So this camera with its extra processing power could easily record even 14-bit raw video (if it had a fast memory card interface) or even the crippled 4:2:2 8-bit MJPEG like its bigger brothers which can run continuously using CF cards. And probably UHS-II as well, but Canon is trying to push CFast instead, even though CFExpress could take over in a few years' time.


This could be the main problem. When technology is evolving faster and faster, it can be risky not to make a camera as good as they could do (especially considering they will wait several years for the next one). But they have obviously done their research, analyzed the market and they are confident about their market position for the foreseeable future.
So, they decided to make this an 'enthusiast' full-frame camera, whatever that means...


----------



## photogdan (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



monkey44 said:


> Canon makes a pretty nice video camera for those that want it - me, personally, don't care a lick about video, and in all my years shooting images, have never once shot video ... I suppose some can confuse photographers with videographers ... but I don't, and know both. So, 4k video missing in a 6D2 is irrelevant.
> 
> In my years as a wildlife and sports shooter, I began with Canon and never found a reason to change - it does everything I need, and a lot of things I don't need or use. But to consider a change for reasons of video performance, or even complain about it is beyond my comprehension. Buy the tools you need that do what you want your gear to do without complaining that it's "missing something" ... we can't have everything in every camera, so decide what is worth it to you, and buy it, or if something is missing that you need, don't buy it.
> 
> In more than twenty years shooting both professionally and privately for my own pleasure, I've never had a Canon product fail - and as I recall it, only one card that was dead on arrival and replaced by B&H ... Maybe I'm just lucky.



You're not lucky... I have the same zero failure experience. Or maybe we're both lucky 8)

I shoot stills, period. As long as Canon continues to improve stills IQ, I'm happy. If I want an occasional video, my iPhone is good enough for me.


----------



## tron (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PBguy said:
> ...


5D4 does NOT have dual digic. Read the specs:

http://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-5d-mark-iv/specifications/


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.
> ...



Thanks  I just had a feeling that there would be some letdown when this was announced. Though, it hasn't really been announced, CR3's are rarely wrong. I simply couldn't pass up on the latest deals that Nikon had going on. While I am disappointed that Canon is indeed gimping the 6D2, I'm happy with my decision. The D750 just works, and works well so far. It has all I need. Though I would love to have a touch screen and DPAF, the two card slots are more important to me than those.

If Canon was hoping to force people to by a 5D4 by limiting features... I hope they read this because, well, it forced me to by a Nikon. My 6D is now collecting dust, and my 7D2 is my new emergency backup for weddings.

And yes, I've written Canon and left reviews on their site. So, they do know how I feel.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



tron said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...


My mistake!
Obviously, there IS an example of a single Digic camera that does 4K...... That answers that question!

So if a single Digic6+ can handle it on a 30Mp sensor, it stands to reason that a faster Digic7 processor would be able to handle 4K on a smaller Mp count sensor....


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...


You have chosen between a great camera, and a great camera that fits your needs a bit better.... I must admit that if I were to go over to the dark side  it would be with a D750 and a 200-500..... We are fortunate to have such systems to choose between.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.
> ...



I believe that it is Nikon's best selling non-introductory DSLR...... it would stand to reason that there are a LOT of them out there....


----------



## bereninga (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I'm surprised to see so many complaints about 4K. I've seen so many posts hoping for a full frame 80D and now that their wish came true they're asking for more! I'm happy to see the price that's lower than the intro price of the 6D. I won't preorder until reviews are out, but I think people underestimate the value of DPAF.

As a 6D owner, It'll be nice to finally use more than the center AF point and use DPAF with video. 4K video will probably be available thru Magic Lantern anyhow.


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...



Excellent! I'm glad you found gear that fits your need, and simultaneously put pressure on Canon. It's good for you, and good for Canon shooters.


----------



## BillB (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bereninga said:


> I'm surprised to see so many complaints about 4K. I've seen so many posts hoping for a full frame 80D and now that their wish came true they're asking for more! I'm happy to see the price that's lower than the intro price of the 6D. I won't preorder until reviews are out, but I think people underestimate the value of DPAF.
> 
> As a 6D owner, It'll be nice to finally use more than the center AF point and use DPAF with video. 4K video will probably be available thru Magic Lantern anyhow.



I think it is likely different groups of people. The people who want a Full Frame 80d could be people looking to move up from a crop camera, a 6D or a 5DII. Basically, these people seem to have gotten their wish. Another group of people were hoping for an inexpensive path to 4K video, and they are not happy. Then there are those who want a second card slot, just like the Nikon D750. If Nikon does it, so should Canon.


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> bereninga said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised to see so many complaints about 4K. I've seen so many posts hoping for a full frame 80D and now that their wish came true they're asking for more! I'm happy to see the price that's lower than the intro price of the 6D. I won't preorder until reviews are out, but I think people underestimate the value of DPAF.
> ...



By that argument, if Canon does it (whatever "it" is), so should Nikon.


----------



## PixelTrawler (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



tron said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



The 5d4 has 2 digic chips. But its not dual in the sense of a pair of cpu's sharing a load. The 6+ is the image processor and the 6 does metering / AF. So that single 6+ is likely handing the 4k solo.


----------



## cpsico (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Everyone slammed the original 6d specs before they used it, then most everyone who owned it absolutely loved the camera. One slot sucks because it will make it less desirable as a wedding camera, but I suspect this camera will rock.


----------



## daphins (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> bereninga said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised to see so many complaints about 4K. I've seen so many posts hoping for a full frame 80D and now that their wish came true they're asking for more! I'm happy to see the price that's lower than the intro price of the 6D. I won't preorder until reviews are out, but I think people underestimate the value of DPAF.
> ...



60D shooter here! You're bang on with what I see. I'm all in on the 6D MKII. It meets EXACTLY what I need.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...



I'm thinking here of people like K, who bring that body up in every single post, threatening to buy one unless Canon delivers a supercamera for $1500. They never do, though.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> I think it is likely different groups of people. The people who want a Full Frame 80d could be people looking to move up from a crop camera, a 6D or a 5DII. Basically, these people seem to have gotten their wish. Another group of people were hoping for an inexpensive path to 4K video, and they are not happy. Then there are those who want a second card slot, just like the Nikon D750. If Nikon does it, so should Canon.



Different people, yes. However, there was no reason to think that a stills-oriented DSLR would be the ideal inexpensive path to 4k video. As for "if Nikon does it, so should Canon", that is horrible logic. Horrible.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PBguy said:
> ...


The XC10 does UHD 30p with a single digic processor which is branded as "DiG!C DV5"
(The Part number is Canon DH4-2665)

This is the same processor used in the 5D-IV as seen in the intro video: 
https://youtu.be/8Z9089048wk?t=38s
However, in the 5D-IV it is branded as "DiG!C 6+"

Attached are images from the Lensrentals teardown of the 5D-IV PCB...


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Orangutan said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Since you monkeys dont want upgraded features like 4k, dual SD slots, etc.
> ...



Well put!

Although...technically...you're an ape, not a monkey.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Orangutan said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



+1


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> Another piece of the puzzle is what the DIGIC 7 processing capacity is being used for in the 6DII. People wanted wiz bang AF performance, and they got it, more or less, but that is going to require processing capacity.



Actually, its more likely sensor and cooling related. The 6D being a entry level body is not getting the cooling treatment, and the sensor may also save manufacturing dollars if it does not have to read large amounts of data quickly and overheat.

I think the Digic Processor can handle 4K just fine, but again, it will generate heat.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...



I can't believe anybody made a system purchasing decision based on the number of card slots a model has. Af, ergonomics, lens selections etc etc I can understand, but two card slots over one? That is a rediculous defining differentiator. It smells of 'I want to be a pro and 'pro' cameras have two card slots so I can only buy a camera tha has those two card slots.' Marketing gone mad, or effective depending on your viewpoint.

How good are those two Nikon card slots when you are shooting tethered?


----------



## Dushicuracaodiving (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I hope it has uncompressed hdmi.


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Which, of course, begs the question- why no 4K on the 6DII. Answer: Canon protecting the 5DIV (which, honestly, doesn't have 4K video that is good enough to protect) and the 1DXII (which doesn't have C-Log).


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> PBguy said:
> 
> 
> > I have to laugh at all the complaining going on about the lack of 4K video considering we actually don't know whether it'll be included or not. Have people forgotten that it's just rumored to not have 4K?
> ...



So why didn't Canon (assuming this is all true) include the MJPEG 4K mode on this camera? If it indeed runs on a single Digic on the 5DIV...

I find it funny that some photography folks on this site are so threatened by a demanding and vocal video crowd that they themselves can't STFU about it. It's not just about photos anymore and Canon themselves started that trend with the 5DII- that's why the video folks are so vocal. So get over it and/or take your own advice.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



privatebydesign said:


> I can't believe anybody made a system purchasing decision based on the number of card slots a model has. Af, ergonomics, lens selections etc etc I can understand, but two card slots over one? That is a rediculous defining differentiator. It smells of 'I want to be a pro and 'pro' cameras have two card slots so I can only buy a camera tha has those two card slots.' Marketing gone mad, or effective depending on your viewpoint.
> 
> How good are those two Nikon card slots when you are shooting tethered?



Agreed. It makes no sense to me that _that _one feature is enough to drive someone not just to another body but to another brand entirely -- and over an entry-level product. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I do respect those who make their choice and move on. The ones that just moan and threaten to switch and predict doom for Canon, not so much.

In the end, if so many people jump ship over it (and I doubt that will happen), it will still end up benefiting Canon shooters because Canon's market research will reflect it, and Canon will respond.

In the meantime, we have a pretty darn good system and lens selection with which to be shooting great photographs and improving our skills...even with one card slot!


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



transpo1 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PBguy said:
> ...



I find it funny that the "video crowd" haven't understood that the 6DII is intended by Canon (whether you like it or not) to be an entry-level full-frame stills camera...for the photography folks. 

Think about it: It has 1080P video capability, so it's fine for the stills shooter to click over to video and capture family moments or other events. What true "professional" would choose an entry-level stills camera for their high-production-value work? Not one I'd hire. And if another brand did offer it in a cheap body, why would they waste time complaining about it and not just go buy what exists in the marketplace that meets their needs? Just buy it, write off the expense and get back to making films.

Or, if you're really a professional, why don't you have some purpose-built video cams? Even if you had 4K in a cheap 6DII, if you're really doing serious work, you'll have spent several thousand more on the rig you're connecting it up to for stabilization, sound capture, external screen and focus pulling. At that point, why not spend the $1,300 more for a Canon body (or some other brand) that does have 4K?

I just find it hard to believe that there are all these video professionals whose careers are teetering on whether or not an entry-level stills camera has the feature that's holding them back from videographic greatness.

I really think it's just a matter of tight-budget or beginner-pros dreaming of producing high-production value content on a shoestring budget and getting grumpy when Canon doesn't put out.

I could be wrong, though. 

PS: For photographers, it really is just about photos.

PPS: I get that Canon started it with the 5DII. Yep. *5*DII. Which was succeeded by the *5*DIII. Which was succeeded by the *5*DIV. Which does 4K and CLog. 8) Is it just me, or is there a theme here?


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Just an observation about "specs" and selection of feature set for a product within a defined tier...

Features are not just weights on a balance scale where marketers arbitrarily pick and choose which are included and which are excluded. It's not like they see 4K on the "Include" side of the scale, run some numbers, look at some market research graphs, and than say, "Hmm...no," and then move it to the "Exclude" side of the scale.

Some features are of a "now we can do it, so why not include it" nature. Like including internal time-lapse.

Some features come with a bevy of other technical requirements to support their function. Like 4K.

It's quite possible that including 4K means adding another (or different) processor, heat sinks (or other cooling solution), faster circuitry for data throughput, better buffer memory, card slots to accommodate the speed, and so on.

Yes, Canon could include all those things in order to put 4K on the "Include" side of the scale, but by then it would be so far out of the scope of what this camera is intended to be, that it would be a different product positioned in a different tier. Then a few videographers would be happy, and Canon would say, "Right...now what are we going to do for an entry-level stills camera?" 

It's just not as simple as shuffling around specs and features. I'm beginning to wonder if we're so spoiled by mind-bogglingly incredible technology constantly at our fingertips that we forget that there's actual, physical engineering at play. Some on this forum get it. So many, it seems, still don't...


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



dak723 said:


> Yes, they do. No argument there.



Argument here, though.

Let's say instead that _at any given state of the art, and assuming all other things technological being equal_, FF will out-IQ crop: but new crop sensors unquestionably monster old FF sensors in IQ terms.

It is not axiomatic that any FF sensor will beat any crop sensor. Not even close to true.


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Here's another way to look at it: for videographers who like to take photos, it really is just about videos and photos. Mind-bending, I know.

The 5DII video was a home run because it was full frame- not the crippled stuff on the 5DIV. Most pros have already moved on to other systems for hybrid- Sony, RED, Panasonic. At the office, when we need to shoot, we grab an FS7 with a speedbooster. I still love the 5D for photos. But when I go on a lightweight video shoot where I also want to shoot stills, I now I have to carry two cameras with me, one for photos, one for 4K video. Pretty soon it will just be one, and because of lacking video features, it just can't be a Canon right now. Shame.

I can understand photogs who can settle for 1080p are the core market, but still not the best situation for Canon, a premiere imaging company who likes to "see impossible." It is, ironically, an image problem.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Frederik_Bo said:


> What I dont get about omitting 4K is that they are putting a tilty-flippy screen on this thing. A tilty-flippy screen is in my opinion, a very video centric feature.



It will have video. It _might_ not have 4k.


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> Just an observation about "specs" and selection of feature set for a product within a defined tier...
> 
> Features are not just weights on a balance scale where marketers arbitrarily pick and choose which are included and which are excluded. It's not like they see 4K on the "Include" side of the scale, run some numbers, look at some market research graphs, and than say, "Hmm...no," and then move it to the "Exclude" side of the scale.
> 
> ...



And it's entirely possible that they just could not do it without increasing the cost of the camera significantly. But judging by past tendencies...it seems more likely to me that they just didn't want to.


----------



## Adelino (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Here is a non 4K question. How will the DIGIC 7 improve JPEG IQ compared to the 6 PLUS in the 5D IV ? Is it possible that the 6DII well out IQ the 5DIV like the original did? How likely? Also could fps get a nice boost from the DIGIC 7? I'm not knowledgeable about this so any answers are appreciated.


----------



## M42 (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

With the 5DIV approaching the 13.5 eV DR, any chance that we would see the 6DII with on-sensor 16 bits ADC?


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> As for "if Nikon does it, so should Canon", that is horrible logic. Horrible.



Yeah, Canon should bring out their own version of the Nikon 1


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



transpo1 said:


> Which, of course, begs the question- why no 4K on the 6DII. Answer: Canon protecting the 5DIV (which, honestly, doesn't have 4K video that is good enough to protect) and the 1DXII (which doesn't have C-Log).



I know - I think you've told us at least twice


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



transpo1 said:


> And it's entirely possible that they just could not do it without increasing the cost of the camera significantly. But judging by past tendencies...it seems more likely to me that they just didn't want to.



If it's the price you are worried about then buy a different brand of FF camera with 4k for 2,000$

Oh...there aren't any....


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



transpo1 said:


> Which, of course, begs the question- why no 4k on the 6DII. Answer: Canon protecting the 5DIV



Nope. 

Canon (which actually knows its target markets _pretty bloody well_) simply does not consider that _for the most part_ - important point, that - the target audience for the 6D Mk II needs/wants 4k.

_You know that's true_.

It's as simple as that - no need for conspiracy theories. Canon doesn't care _even a little bit_ whether you buy a 5D Mk IV or a 6D Mk II - a sale is a sale is a sale.

And all of this assumes that the 6D Mk II doesn't have 4k, of course...


----------



## Sabaki (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

This camera is for me and I am strongly intending on picking one up.

As a photographer who has racked up less than 1 hour of video in 6 years of photography, 4K means nothing to me.

But a great price point, vastly improved AF system and generational improvement on the sensor makes this a solid improvement over the 6D Classic.

Consider me sold


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



dak723 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



Indeed. Apparently, some people will even argue with and toss out veiled insults at those who are agreeing with them. But at least you proved your own point very effectively...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



transpo1 said:


> Which, of course, begs the question- why no 4K on the 6DII. Answer: Canon protecting the 5DIV (which, honestly, doesn't have 4K video that is good enough to protect) and the 1DXII (which doesn't have C-Log).



Which, of course, begs the question- why no C-Log on the 1D X II. Answer: Canon protecting the 5DIV. 

Gee, playing 'let's make nonsensical statements' is fun!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Keith_Reeder said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, they do. No argument there.
> ...



I think it's axiomatic that not everyone stating an axiom will automatically state every assumption underlying that axiom. 

Let's say instead that at any given state of the art, and assuming all other things technological being equal, _and assuming any other non-technological factors also being held equal_...

After all, we wouldn't want someone comparing a crop sensor to a FF sensor where someone had smeared a thick coat of Vaseline on the latter, and invalidating our axiom.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

is this where we take our cue from 'What have the Romans done for us'?...


----------



## tomscott (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I think that's a really good price.

Also means if you want a 5DMKIII for the options lacking in the 6DMKII they will see a reduction and the 5DMKVI will also probably pretty heavy cut too similar to the 5DMKIII about 18 months after release. People who don't need the spec increase or want the weather sealing will be able to buy a 6D for not much more than a XXD model.

Its a pretty good time to be a photographer. 4 cameras that offer a huge variation for people to upgrade to FF. People seem to forget that FF is still very niche in photography and not a given. The fact we have 4 cameras to choose from is fantastic. That doesn't include the 1D variants.

I understand the worries with the lack of 2 card slots but this is the entry level body and tbh if you need 2 card slots then you probably need the build quality of the 5 series too. With those specs it would more than do for a secondary or even third backup.

For the price difference as ive said in previous threads these cameras used by pros are written off so quickly that its not worth worrying about. This is why I generally ignore these complaint threads. Buying these cameras is not an emotional investment its economic business sense to upgrade kit that's been heavily used for newer, reliable gear.

Say a pair of 5DMKVIs have a pro life span of 4 years at £3500, 7K over 4 years a pro outlays £36.50 per week. Its not worth worrying about which is why many money earing pros don't.... 

Even so, one camera will probably get used in more hostile shooting situations and another used more sparingly so one is probably high miler low value and the other probably still high miler but good condition so can be traded in and that cost comes down further.

Here in the UK 200k 5DMKIIIs are retailing for around £1000 still which is just less a third of its original retail value. Pretty good really... 

Bodies are short term, lenses are investments.


----------



## BillB (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Which, of course, begs the question- why no 4K on the 6DII. Answer: Canon protecting the 5DIV (which, honestly, doesn't have 4K video that is good enough to protect) and the 1DXII (which doesn't have C-Log).
> ...



So far as I know, nobody has ever introduced a fullframe DSLR with 4K below the $3000 price point. Right now, the least expensive DSLRs with 4K are a couple of 2 year old Sony's selling at north of $2500. Why should anybody think that Canon could put 4K video into a smallish DSLR with a nonmetallic shell that they are designing to sell for $2000? It isn't Canon that is protecting the 5DIV. It is the current state of the art. Canon may be good, but they are not that good.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> So far as I know, nobody has ever introduced a fullframe DSLR with 4K below the $3000 price point. Right now, the least expensive DSLRs with 4K are a couple of 2 year old Sony's selling at north of $2500. *Why should anybody think that Canon could put 4K video into a smallish DSLR with a nonmetallic shell that they are designing to sell for $2000?* It isn't Canon that is protecting the 5DIV. It is the current state of the art. Canon may be good, but they are not that good.



Because I wants it, Precious. I wants it now, and I wants it for free, my Precious.


----------



## K (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

On things which matter for stills shooters, the 6D2 does not surpass the 2014 Nikon D750. 

D750 and D810 updates are just around the corner....

Given Nikon's trend - the D760 or whatever it will be called, will probably have the same AF as the D5 and D500 which is excellent and better than anything except the 1DX2. We don't even have to wait for the Nikon update to declare the 6D2 behind the times...

6D2 is weaksauce. It will be a DPAF and a flippy screen. That's it. People looking for a DPAF and a flippy screen for 1080, this is your camera. 

For anyone else that needs reasonable capabilities in other areas, and doesn't want to spend $3,300 - Canon is not for you.


On another note, I was right. It was going to be either or. It was going to be either AF or cards/fps. Canon is much smarter than their loyalists, apologists and fanatics on this forum who deny the importance of dual card slot. Canon is willing to offer a 45pt AF in a FF which is decent...knowing this is far less likely to eat into 5D4 sales than dual card slot.

There cannot be any more proof than that. Canon is very careful about what they omit for these purposes. Dual slot means some people skip the 5D4, others go to other brands. Canon is betting people cough up the extra $1,300 and stay with Canon. I advise people to not reward a company for these kinds of tactics. Nikon is better choice for most people. The results are the same anyway. Anyone of lower budget or new to FF should avoid Canon like the plague. Once "invested" in glass - you will have to pay big premium for under-specced bodies for years and years.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> Nikon is better choice for most people. The results are the same anyway. Anyone of lower budget or new to FF should avoid Canon like the plague. Once "invested" in glass - you will have to pay big premium for under-specced bodies for years and years.



So switch brands and stop whining because dual card slots are obviously so important to you. Your refusal to move to Canon shows a short-term thinking that cannot be good for you (financially or your psychological well being) and in 2 years time the 'premium' you pay for Canon will instead be sitting in your pocket. You clearly have absolutely no reason to stay with Canon apart from laziness - and by being lazy you are telling Canon 'hey, you are doing it right' and they will not change.


----------



## candyman (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> On things which matter for stills shooters, the 6D2 does not surpass the 2014 Nikon D750.
> 
> ...........


But...but....I am a Canon shooter....NOT a nikon shooter.....


----------



## The3o5FlyGuy (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

the pricepoint for the features is disappointing. The 5D mark III easily goes for $1700 used. I have to get my hands on this camera to see if it's better, because if it's not, I'm getting the 5D Mark III, or the 5Ds


----------



## BillB (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> On things which matter for stills shooters, the 6D2 does not surpass the 2014 Nikon D750.
> 
> D750 and D810 updates are just around the corner....
> 
> ...



And the announced price of the D760 will be?


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> I think it's axiomatic that not everyone stating an axiom will automatically state every assumption underlying that axiom.



Cute and glib, but it doesn't change the fact that your comment was a lazy, facile sweeping statement that is demonstrably wrong on its face.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> On things which matter for stills shooters, the 6D2 does not surpass the 2014 Nikon D750.



I didn't get the memo telling me you'd been elected to be _*The Voice Of All Stills Shooters...*_


----------



## tomscott (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

K was literally on the way to a heart attack in the last thread.

I find it amazing how emotionally involved people get. Its a camera... meant for entry to the world of FF.

The fact entry level bodies are this advanced is incredible remember when the 300/350D was the only affordable way into dslr photography. That was only 10-12 years ago... 

People complain about the smallest things, that in the long term have minimal impact. Please do go over to Nikon so we dont have to listen to the BS.

Either way the majority of professionals will take the higher end weatherproof bodies. Only the beginner 'pro' wedding photographers use D750 and 6Ds because the original outset cost of lenses and bodies for the wedding game is expensive. The majority use D810s and 5D series specifically because they can take more of a beating and like I said above the price difference for working pros is not a concern because it is recouped in a couple of jobs.

In my experience the build and weather sealing has saved my skin on many occasions because I was confident the camera could continue in poor weather conditions. My area is the Lake district in Cumbria which is the wettest place in England and rains most of the year. Not just weddings ive shot 8-10 hours through yellow weather warnings with 5Ds shooting motorsport and had no problem at all.

There is a reason there are different tiers for different needs.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Keith_Reeder said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's axiomatic that not everyone stating an axiom will automatically state every assumption underlying that axiom.
> ...



Oh, ok then.



Keith_Reeder said:


> Let's say instead that _at any given state of the art, and assuming all other things technological being equal_, FF will out-IQ crop: *but new crop sensors unquestionably monster old FF sensors in IQ terms.*



The 5D from 2005 has less ISO noise than the 80D, a crop sensor that's 11 years and a whole bunch of generations newer. So, it seems that your statement is also a lazy, facile sweeping statement that is demonstrably wrong on its face.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> Given Nikon's trend - the D760 or whatever it will be called, will probably



...be recalled for some manufacturing or design flaw within a few months of launch, and be vastly outsold by the 6DII.


----------



## Antono Refa (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Keith_Reeder said:


> Well, as someone who uses a camera with 2 card slots, I have to tell you that it's a pretty common choice among wildlife/action/sport 'togs to use the second slot not as back-up, but in order to ensure plentiful storage capacity so as not to miss shots (possibly _the_ shot) due to filling the card(s).



Nowadays, one can buy a 256GB SD card for $100-$200. Assuming a 40MB raw file, that's sufficient for >6,000 photos.

What would be the usage scenario that does not allow switching memory cards at least every 6,000 photos?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> On things which matter for stills shooters, the 6D2 does not surpass the 2014 Nikon D750.



Why haven't you bought one of these yet?


----------



## K (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Given Nikon's trend - the D760 or whatever it will be called, will probably
> ...



Canon isn't so squeaky clean - 


5D4 still has unacceptable and unadmitted by Canon banding issues, even with some non-extreme adjustments (2 stops shadows). 

7D2 had AF issues.

There have been firmware debacles.

They had card compatibility and write issues ...(where they blamed the card manufacturers!!! LOL). 

Just to name a few...

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.



Besides, your attack of the D750 is a giant strawman argument. Manufacturing issues are a separate topic and doesn't make up for the fact that the 6D2 is an underspecced, poor value camera.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



Sure, Canon has had issues. And it does seem Nikon learned to openly acknowledge their problems, although it took the world's most populous nation banning sales of the D600 in their country to teach them that lesson. 

I guess you stopped reading before the 'vastly outsold by the 6DII' part. Or you have no rebuttal to that, because your mypoic little world view precludes you from realizing that your wants are not, in any way, representative of the general ILC-buying market.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> Besides, your attack of the D750 is a giant strawman argument. Manufacturing issues are a separate topic and doesn't make up for the fact that the 6D2 is an underspecced, poor value camera.



Underspecced compared to the D750 - a camera launched as a competitor for the 5D series and sold so poorly they had to drop the price so it could compete with the Canon model lower on the spec ?
I would take that as a massive compliment to the 6D.


----------



## BillB (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Given Nikon's trend - the D760 or whatever it will be called, will probably
> ...



Either that or be quickly discounted a few hundred dollars to get into the 6DII ballpark. Interesting situation facing Nikon. The D760 is going to have to raise the bar higher than the D750 in performance, as K so happily points out. At the same time, the D760 is going to have to cope with price points set by the 6DII and the D750 discounts. 

If I recollect correctly the initial price of the D750 was 20% higher than what will be the initial price of the 6DII. It was the job of the D610 to match the price of the 6D, and that didn't work out all that well for Nikon, so we have the current D750 pricing that K finds so compelling. My advice is to get it while you can, if that is what you want. On the other hand, there is no telling what will happen if Nikon loses control of the D760 pricing. Might be some more pretty good deals down the road, if Nikon manages to stay afloat and you are not worried about service.


----------



## Aaron D (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

OK, the single SD is no good for me, I'll pass. But to those who are outraged by a single card, buy an old 5DIII and be happy. In my case, I'll just keep the one I've got. I was hoping I could trade the III for a smaller lighter 6D, but I'm happy to wait for a full frame mirror-less now. Not sure the 6 will be much smaller anyway. And this would have been a second body to a 5DIV, so it's all just refinement of an already solid set-up.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



tomscott said:


> My area is the Lake district in Cumbria which is the wettest place in England and rains most of the year.



I thought K's keyboard was the wettest place on earth, he's been crying over it for a week


----------



## unfocused (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Antono Refa said:


> Keith_Reeder said:
> 
> 
> > Well, as someone who uses a camera with 2 card slots, I have to tell you that it's a pretty common choice among wildlife/action/sport 'togs to use the second slot not as back-up, but in order to ensure plentiful storage capacity so as not to miss shots (possibly _the_ shot) due to filling the card(s).
> ...



I do use the second slot in the way Keith describes. I don't use a 256GB card because I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket and the cost for a CFast card in that category is more than I want to spend. But, that's the rub, I'm using a 1DX II and shooting sports at 12 fps. When the CFast card fills, I let it spill over to the CF card until the action pauses and then change out the CFast card. 

None of this is a scenario that applies to the 6D, which isn't designed for sports or quick action in the first place. So, not putting two card slots in a 6D II seems very reasonable.


----------



## tomscott (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

The actual cost of swapping systems is prohibitive which ever way you look at it.

The sony crowd were happy because they could mount canon glass but with poor af. Swapping to Nikon is futile because in 3 years time with the same mentality you will be back in the Canon camp.

These features that are being bickered over are so minimal in an entry level body.

Which is the final point talk is cheap and many dont act. 

All these youtube videos you see of people swapping out systems is bait, and they are usually paid to do so. The followers regurgitate the same BS else, in most cases having no experience but the ability to read a spec sheets. 

Whats more interesting to me is that 99% of these people post no images, its always the same few that actually share images because they actually use their equipment to shoot images.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Agree with Don. Plus, to make a blanket statement that Full Frame is always better ignores the real world use of an image. 

At ISO 400 and below, the full frame may be theoretically better, but not in any way that can be seen by the human eye in a printed image at normal viewing distances.


----------



## tomscott (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > My area is the Lake district in Cumbria which is the wettest place in England and rains most of the year.
> ...



Haha ;D


----------



## lv (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

1) GPS will work fine on the phone. I used the gps on a cheap 2011 sony walkman phone to log a hike in Patagonia - no reception for 9 days. I never even subscribed to data connection on that phone at home - just used wifi to download music or podcasts to listen to during day. It worked (I used some tracker app, turned off other connections and turned off the phone most of the time - turned it on, hit a button to log gps coordinates, etc)

2) It worked fine, but it's not convenient compared to having gps embedded in every photo. I really like the feature in my 6D just like I like it in my phone: every single camera now should have it - like every last cheapest smartphone has it.



IglooEater said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and [email protected], [email protected] 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has [email protected] and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely
> ...


----------



## K (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

They just had a sale on the D750, and most retailers were sold out and on backorder. Sure, the D750 is a major flop...

Zealots and fanatics like the Canon apologists cannot be reasoned with. Up is down, and down is up. They see whatever they want.


If the D750 was to compete with the 5D line, do remember it came in $1,000+ less at intro. 

It's not. It technically fills the role of a entry/mid FF. Canon peeps want to say it competes with the 5D and this forms a type of concession that Canon has nothing to compete against the D750 with. They don't realize this undermines them.


Against the 5D3, there are pros and cons to each. No clear winner on specs depending on what you value since it isn't an apples to apples comparison. That's a type of win for Nikon, since this is one level down in camera and $1,000 cheaper release price and yet it holds its own and surpassed a higher tier camera body from Canon. I would say the D750 does win on specs. The AF is better, the sensor is VASTLY superior. If you want better build quality, 1/8000, CF cards then the 5D3 is better.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> Canon peeps want to say it competes with the 5D and this forms a type of concession that Canon has nothing to compete against the D750 with. They don't realize this undermines them.



It's been pretty widely acknowledged here that the D750 has no equivalent in the Canon lineup. Nikon tried something new, targeting a niche in between the D8x0/5DIII-IV and the D6x0/6D. The fact that Nikon had to cut the prices so drastically is a fair indicator of how unsuccessful that attempt turned out. 



K said:


> Zealots and fanatics ... cannot be reasoned with.



Yes, you're clearly showing that statement to be correct.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



The3o5FlyGuy said:


> the pricepoint for the features is disappointing. The 5D mark III easily goes for $1700 used. I have to get my hands on this camera to see if it's better, because if it's not, I'm getting the 5D Mark III, or the 5Ds



Once again: how is it fair to compare the used price of a camera several years old to the RRP of a brand new one?


----------



## Antono Refa (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Keith_Reeder said:
> ...



So you do not assume card failures are vanishingly rare, assuming properly-sourced, quality cards are used, which leads me to...

1) Would cutting the risk by half, using 64GB cards and switching every 3,000 photos, be acceptable to you?

How about 32GB cards and switching every 1,500 photos?

How about 16GB cards and switching every 750 photos?

2) If you can't switch cards every 750 photos, and you still don't like the disk, wouldn't the obvious solution be buying a camera with two slots, two 32GB cards, and switch every 1,500 photos?

[Replace 750 and 32GB with 1,500 and 64GB, etc, according to your needs & assessment of chances of failure.]

Hope that makes my point clear.



unfocused said:


> and the cost for a CFast card in that category is more than I want to spend. But, that's the rub, I'm using a 1DX II and shooting sports at 12 fps. When the CFast card fills, I let it spill over to the CF card until the action pauses and then change out the CFast card.



Sounds like you're getting way less breathing time than I would expect.


----------



## FramerMCB (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



tomscott said:


> The actual cost of swapping systems is prohibitive which ever way you look at it.
> 
> The sony crowd were happy because they could mount canon glass but with poor af. Swapping to Nikon is futile because in 3 years time with the same mentality you will be back in the Canon camp.
> 
> ...



A+


----------



## K (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> The fact that Nikon had to cut the prices so drastically is a fair indicator of how unsuccessful that attempt turned out.




Laughable to say the least. Let's apply your own standards. Do you sit on the board at Nikon? Are you in the executive meetings? No. You're a nobody and as a result you have zero authority to speak on the motives of Nikon for anything related to product intention and pricing. See how that works? Live by the sword, die by it.

Next, 

This camera is from 2014, you can look at the pricing history - it doesn't follow any kind of abnormal path to indicate that all of a sudden the camera was a flop and needed a price reduction to make up for it as you have everyone believe. 

Next,

I'm not here to defend Nikon or the D750 as you would try to frame this as - I'm merely pointing out it is a better specced and better value camera than Canon's crappy 6D line. Hey, at entry FF ($2,000ish) Canon is awful. But at $3,300 and above, they are superior to Nikon dollar for dollar. See, I provide reasonable, measured, and balanced opinions and views. Not pro-Canon fanaticism and fan-boyism that defends Canon as perfect, awesome, the greatest in every way, shape and form and free from fault of any kind.


----------



## Skywise (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

With DPAF -- Does this mean the 6D2 will do active autofocusing during video like the 80D?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> the 6D2 which is a turd





K said:


> See, I provide reasonable, measured, and balanced opinions and views.



Yeah, sure you do. :


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Keith_Reeder said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, they do. No argument there.
> ...



However the physics of the thing, dof etc, are hard baked and whilst I have been very vocal in saying many times people can't differentiate between one setup and another, there is no doubt that some looks can only be achieved via sensor size die to lens selection limitations. If there isn't an equivalent option then there is nothing to be done.

I remember a picture by Gregory Heisler of Rudy Giuliani where he chose to use a Sinar 8x10 with a 156mm f5.6 lens because it gave him more dof control than an almost equivalent 135 format 'ff' DSLR with a TS-E24, the larger format had narrower dof. He could not take that image as he wanted with a crop camera, nor even a ff dslr, he had to go up in sensor size.


----------



## K (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > the 6D2 which is a turd
> ...




Anyone who follows your posts can only conclude Canon is perfection in every way. 

Fortunately, people live in reality.

I do hope you're on the Canon payroll. I respect a paid shill more, then someone who does it for free. Either is dishonest, at lease the former has a legit reason to do it....


--->


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that Nikon had to cut the prices so drastically is a fair indicator of how unsuccessful that attempt turned out.
> ...



Thing is K, there are people on here who want to buy the 6D Mk2 because they see it as right for them. Now you may not agree with that, and that is fine. But the people who do want this camera, and not a Nikon, for whatever reason, will buy it.

It doesn't matter if their is no UHD, no Dual Card Slot, there are people who are looking to replace equipment, or maybe start in the FF market, that will buy this camera, be happy with their decision and happy with their purchase.

Now that we pretty much know the specification of this body, and that you are not happy with it, you should start looking for something you are happy with, which clearly isn't the 6DMk2.

I am one of those that will buy the 6D Mk2, and I know I will be happy with it. Perhaps you will be better, in the short term, looking at the new Sony or Nikon products that may get released this year, we will have to see what the pricing and features of those new bodies are, and if the cost of replacing glass isn't prohibitive.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> I'm not here to defend Nikon or the D750


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> Anyone who follows your posts can only conclude Canon is perfection in every way.



Anyone who would conclude that lacks the ability to comprehend what they read.


----------



## BillB (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> I'm not here to defend Nikon or the D750 as you would try to frame this as - I'm merely pointing out it is a better specced and better value camera than Canon's crappy 6D line. Hey, at entry FF ($2,000ish) Canon is awful. But at $3,300 and above, they are superior to Nikon dollar for dollar. See, I provide reasonable, measured, and balanced opinions and views. Not pro-Canon fanaticism and fan-boyism that defends Canon as perfect, awesome, the greatest in every way, shape and form and free from fault of any kind.



You may not be defending Nikon, but you are advising people to buy into the Nikon system even though Canon has superior lenses and Canon cameras are a better buy except at the entry level. So, what about the idea that several people have of buying a 5DIII, either new or used?


----------



## unfocused (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Antono Refa said:


> Hope that makes my point clear.



Clear as mud. I get the sense you are trying to argue a point, but I'm not sure what the point is. Plus, I'm not sure why you are arguing, since I'm not disagreeing with your original point, just illustrating my own use and how it is irrelevant to the 6D, which is not designed for sports or action shooters.



unfocused said:


> and the cost for a CFast card in that category is more than I want to spend. But, that's the rub, I'm using a 1DX II and shooting sports at 12 fps. When the CFast card fills, I let it spill over to the CF card until the action pauses and then change out the CFast card.





Antono Refa said:


> Sounds like you're getting way less breathing time than I would expect.



Possibly because you don't shoot sports. I don't know. But, my personal working style is to shoot a formatted CFast card until it fills, let things spill over to the CF card and then, when there is a pause in the action I switch out the CFast with a new card. That way, I don't run the risk of hitting the limit of the card midway through an action sequence, while at the same time using the CFast for most of the action.


----------



## Yasko (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I find it funny, that many people complain about no 4K but on the other side even more seem to have a need to "defend" Canon for not implementing it.

If it's a pure marketing move, then it raises the question why not implement a feature that doesn't cost that much more and is on the height of technology which already has moved on further... just to protect "higher" product lines? I mean... if it's really not that much of a deal to implement it, that's just a stupid move.

If that is wrong and it would cost a significant amount of money to implement 4K (better heat dissipation capabilities, more CPU power etc), then I can see why they didn't implement it - although one might bring up the price point and that the margin for Canon is definitely high enough to make a bargain.

Well, as it seems it has not been implemented for whatever reasons and I assume a lot have expected it and the rant about it as well. Still a great camera, but again - features that don't cost a lot (or are as easy implemented as being left out) should come to any camera body, because that's what is considered state of the art in terms of today's standard. If marketing is about cutting the standard down to protect overprized lines that offer such features, then it would just suck 

As for me, personally, I don't need 4K. I haven't shot alot of video as of late. What bothers me more is if there will be AFMA (have used it 2-3 times on my 70D) and the question if I shouldn't wait for an EVF FF camera, because despite the downsides an EVF really helps in difficult lighting situations and having everything there without haveing to look at a display in live view that doesn't only use more battery (okay, the EVF does ALWAYS use a bit of that) but is also harder to see in bright sunlight.


----------



## BillB (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Skywise said:


> With DPAF -- Does this mean the 6D2 will do active autofocusing during video like the 80D?



Don't know for sure, but my guess is that it will have it, and that will make quite a few people happy.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> They just had a sale on the D750, and most retailers were sold out and on backorder. Sure, the D750 is a major flop...



So, did you buy one? Or are you still just full of talk?



K said:


> Zealots and fanatics ... cannot be reasoned with. Up is down, and down is up. They see whatever they want.



The ironing tastes delicious.


----------



## magarity (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. SDXC come in up to 512GB in a single card. I know event photographers can take a lot of pictures in a day but nobody's finger can fill a half TB without a break.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> Skywise said:
> 
> 
> > With DPAF -- Does this mean the 6D2 will do active autofocusing during video like the 80D?
> ...



_"Yes, people who shoot video in the stone age, aka 1080p, will be very happy."

Sincerely, 

'K'_


----------



## Antono Refa (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Hope that makes my point clear.
> ...



My point is: assuming memory cards (from reputable companies, etc) are reliable, and considering available memory card sizes, one would have a pause in action which

1) would be long enough to allow the photographer to switch cards

2) would happen before the card is full

allowing the photographer to work with just one memory card slot. This means dual slots are required only if you think failure of a single memory card is a real possibility.

My understanding is you look for that pause after photos have spilled over to the CF card. My (unrealistic?) expectation is for you to be able to find one before photos spill over to the CF card.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Yasko said:


> I find it funny, that many people complain about no 4K but on the other side even more seem to have a need to "defend" Canon for not implementing it.



I for one am not defending them, I am simply rationalising why they did not 



Yasko said:


> If it's a pure marketing move, then it raises the question why not implement a feature that doesn't cost that much more and is on the height of technology which already has moved on further... just to protect "higher" product lines? I mean... if it's really not that much of a deal to implement it, that's just a stupid move.
> 
> If that is wrong and it would cost a significant amount of money to implement 4K (better heat dissipation capabilities, more CPU power etc), then I can see why they didn't implement it - *although one might bring up the price point and that the margin for Canon is definitely high enough to make a bargain*.



Your comment makes sense if anyone (just anyone) makes a FF 4k camera. No-one does. Rationalise that....




Yasko said:


> Well, as it seems it has not been implemented for whatever reasons and I assume a lot have expected it and the rant about it as well.
> Still a great camera, but again - features that don't cost a lot (or are as easy implemented as being left out) should come to any camera body, *because that's what is considered state of the art in terms of today's standard*. If marketing is about cutting the standard down to protect overprized lines that offer such features, then it would just suck



What 'standard'? The vocal minority expect Canon to install 4k to a camera, and cut their margins in doing so, so it can challenge a competitor that doesn't even exist!! 
Please explain that to me.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



magarity said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.
> ...



Far be it from me to defend a position I don't care about as I am no pro and I never use both slots on my 5D3, _but..._

I believe the argument for two cards is that a single card slot camera -- either through a camera problem or much more likely a card failure -- could lose an entire day's work that cannot be reshot (weddings immediately come to mind). Lawsuits, scorched earth bridezilla, and all that a failed card could bring about might be insured against with second card slot on board.

In that sense, with a single slot 6D2, *Canon is effectively positioning 'data peace of mind' as a premium feature and not a responsibility to deliver to its customers*. Somewhere in the product line, Canon logically needs to pick where you get one vs. where you get two. Many would argue (not necessarily me) that a $2k rig should be above the single card relegation line.

You might call it nerfing or 'product portfolio by deliberate feature omission', but Canon sees it as a way to keep its costs down / margins up. That's business.

I won't lose a wink of sleep over this, but that's my guess why some folks are bent out of shape at this rumor. In short, their priorities are not ours. Let them stew about this injustice, I say : -- it's a free internet.

- A


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

K, it seems pretty clear that you would choose the D750 over the 6DII if both were placed in front of you. Fair enough. I say, go for it, and enjoy taking photographs and videos. Maybe just stop tossing out assumptions and pejoratives at those who have a different opinion, eh? 

You've compared the specs of the D750 and the (rumored) specs of the 6DII and concluded that the D750 from 2014 is comparable or even superior, and with a lower price, is the no-brainer choice, which makes Canon look foolish and out-of-touch.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I wonder, though, if you've ever used DPAF in conjunction with an articulating touch screen. For how quickly you dismissed those features in your comparison, my guess is that the answer is no. For many like me, they are significant and compelling features that we don't want to give up. It was a lack of these two features that caused me to wait for a 6DII instead of getting the 6D. I'm glad I did, because now Canon has delivered pretty much everything I want in an entry-level full-frame camera.

Some thoughts on product segmentation and the value proposition:

A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.

Nikon introduced the D600 as its response and direct competitor to the 6D. It was widely lauded by forum-dwellers and YouTubers, but it had significant issues and was quickly replaced by the D610. Nikon saw an opportunity to introduce a product positioned between the D610 and D800/810 and came up with the D750.

There was, and still is, no direct product segment in Canon's line-up to compete with the D750.

I was excited by that D750 announcement -- not because I was tempted to switch, but because it was the first full-frame camera with non-fixed LCD, and I knew that if it was successful, we'd probably see one in the 6DII. Thankfully, the D750 was a great camera and was reasonably successful. Quite good news for Canon shooters.

The problem, though, with comparing it to the 6DII is that they are not and never were intended to be direct competitors. You're comparing a 2014 camera...that was positioned in a higher product tier:

D800/810 competes with 5D series
D750 competes with...hmm...nothing
D610 competes with 6D series

I think I get your point, though -- it's about what you get for your money that makes it compelling...to you. Why spend $2K for a 6DII when you could spend less on a D750, or you could buy a used 5DIII?

For me, I see a bunch of good reasons why I'd spend more for the 6DII than less for the D750:

1. I get 45 cross-type AF points instead of 15.
2. I get a fully articulating screen instead of tilt only.
3. I get touch screen instead of no touch screen.
4. I get DPAF over focus hunting.
5. I get Canon colors from the sensor.
6. I get Canon menus and ergonomics.
7. I get Bluetooth and NFC.
8. I keep my L lenses.
9. I get Canon reliability.
10. I get Canon support.

I would not trade the above for an extra card slot or a negligible difference in dynamic range. I would, in fact, pay more than a D750 would cost just to have the above.

Why not a used 5DIII? The DPAF and articulating screen are that important to me. Plus, the 6DII will likely have a better sensor than the 5DIII, and sensor is the only reason I'm moving up from my 70D in the first place.

Simply put, the 6DII is a worthwhile upgrade for me. It has pretty much everything I'm wanting for a body in this tier. Nikon could release a D760 (still a higher-tier product) that's better, or even a D610 successor that's better, and I won't give a hoot because I'll be happily shooting a camera that _meets my needs for an amount I was willing to pay_.

The above is called a value proposition. This one applies to me and can only be defined by me. Yours is different and can only be defined by you. Just understand that while YOU see the D750 as a better body for less money, others see it very differently. That doesn't make them apologists or fanatics or fools-settling-for-less-at-higher-cost.

Canon's job, as a business, is to get a feel for what the value proposition looks like to as many people as possible in its target market segment, and then build the product (and at a price) that satisfies it. Given it's track record and position in the industry, it seems Canon is particularly good at it.


----------



## smr (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

As long as it's got 6fps at least I'll be upgrading, it's exactly the specs then that I was hoping for, 45 all cross type, FF Camera, awesome new sensor and dynamic range, it's going to be an absolutely huge upgrade for me from my 700D. Can't wait.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> magarity said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...



And I don't.

I believe twin slots is a marketing device designed to ease the move up the range. If it was for the reason of data backup then the slots would be the same and there would be no penalty or feature restriction if you mirror information to both at the same time, i.e. actually make a 'backup'. But that is not how Canon have ever implemented dual card slots, they do it seemingly with more a mind to easing the transition up the range for people with cards from 'lower' specced cameras.

Even the 1DX MkII loses features to it's second slot. Nikon on the other hand do make true dual slot cameras where both slots take the same media and there are no limitations when duplicating, however you can't shoot tethered and to card with a Nikon, something I do regularly.

Canon's implementation of dual slots does not allow for "data peace of mind" and any pro who's contract doesn't limit liability for technical and other 'unforeseeable' issues to costs only is a fool.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> K, it seems pretty clear that you would choose the D750 over the 6DII if both were placed in front of you. Fair enough. I say, go for it, and enjoy taking photographs and videos. Maybe just stop tossing out assumptions and pejoratives at those who have a different opinion, eh?
> 
> You've compared the specs of the D750 and the (rumored) specs of the 6DII and concluded that the D750 from 2014 is comparable or even superior, and with a lower price, is the no-brainer choice, which makes Canon look foolish and out-of-touch.
> 
> ...



Nice post. My last (FF) purchase was the 5DMk2, I have 3 L series lenses that I love using. The 17-40 F4L, the 100-400 L and the 85mm F1.2 L. As I have this glass I want to stay Canon. The 6D Mk2 ticks the right boxes for me. 

Better AF (45 Cross Points) the 5DMk2 focusing is ho-hum, its pretty poor, even compared to my 30D!
Better Dynamic Range (I hope the 6DMk2 outperforms my 8 year old 5DMk2)
Better ISO noise handling

Tilty screen, erm, well my 700D has that, and i use that as my travel camera which I have a few great EF-S lenses for (the 10-18 is brilliant, nifty fifty of course and the 55-250, much better now with IS).

DPAF, well I might shoot some video, but I hardly ever do. I guess I won't see the benefit of DPAF in stills, unless I use live view to shoot? which I won't if I am not using a tripod. My mostly landscape and architecture subjects don't need super fast focusing or xxx fps anyway.

I want to replace my 5DMk2 mostly because of age, I will still use it of course, but safe in the knowledge I have a capable partner for it. I think the 6DMk2 will become my main body.

Can't wait


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



privatebydesign said:


> I believe twin slots is a marketing device designed to ease the move up the range. If it was for the reason of data backup then the slots would be the same and there would be no penalty or feature restriction if you mirror information to both at the same time, i.e. actually make a 'backup'. But that is not how Canon have ever implemented dual card slots, they do it seemingly with more a mind to easing the transition up the range for people with cards from 'lower' specced cameras.
> 
> Even the 1DX MkII loses features to it's second slot. Nikon on the other hand do make true dual slot cameras where both slots take the same media and there are no limitations when duplicating, however you can't shoot tethered and to card with a Nikon, something I do regularly.
> 
> Canon's implementation of dual slots does not allow for "data peace of mind" and any pro who's contract doesn't limit liability for technical and other 'unforeseeable' issues to costs only is a fool.



I wouldn't say 'not ever'...the 1D X has two identical CF card slots, and thus I have "data peace of mind."


----------



## scrup (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

No 4K?

Does that mean no 4K in the next upgrade of crop cameras as well unless you get a 7Diii?


----------



## AdjustedInCamera (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

How long before we see sample pictures? And any word on new software for it, like in early rumors?

(Also, what happened to the new gold box it was supposed to come in?)


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



scrup said:


> No 4K?
> 
> Does that mean no 4K in the next upgrade of crop cameras as well unless you get a 7Diii?



That's unrelated to this announcement as a 6D2 is not categorically 'higher' in feature set vs. some crop models, but it's an interesting question.

Off the cuff? 90D.

But it's really just a question of which 'nicer' rig comes out next -- 90D, 7D3 or 5DS2. The timing is somewhat close, actually:

Date 80D was released: 3/24/16
##D product line rough refresh timing: Medium length, about 3 years
Best guess of a 90D date: 6/24/19

Date 7D2 was released: 11/1/2014
7D# product line rough refresh timing: Long, about 5 years
Best guess of a 7D3 date: 11/1/2019

Date 5DS was released: 6/15/2015
5DS product line rough refresh timing: None. First offering.
5D# product line rough refresh timing (as a reference): Long. 4-5 years.
Best guess of a 5DS2 date: End of 2019?

Leaving out a new product line being released altogether (mirrorless?) or new Cinema/Camcorder-y offerings, I'd say the next rig to get 4K will be the 90D.

I could very well be wrong, though. A boatload of new Rebels may come out by then.

- A


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



privatebydesign said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



The funny thing is, photography is precisely how I pay my bills. So, I guess that qualifies me as a professional. You had no way of knowing that, so no offense on my end. 

My wife and I run a photography outfit, and our bread and butter is weddings. Most wedding photographers will agree that the vast majority of the shots taken during the course of the day are irreplaceable memories. Contracts protect you financially. Dual card slots protect your reputation and, as mentioned above, our client's memories. I learned my lesson early on... The first unpaid wedding we shot as a favor to a family member, I had a card fail on my 6D. Luckily, I was able to recover the files. However, it's not something I am ever willing to risk again. Two cards writing raw files simultaneously are an absolutely mandatory requirement.

My wife has had a D750 since it was released, while I've been chugging along with my Canon gear hoping that they would release a FF with a tilt screen and two slots (I had the 70D for a spell and loved the flexibility that it allowed). The 6DII will be close, but no cigar. It disappoints me, as there's a lot that I do love about Canon.

As for Nikon and Canon compared, I am quite happy with the lenses available to both. Are there are better options on either side? Sure. As far as my new D750 is concerned, the VF AF works like a dream and really doesn't miss unless I do. The 3D tracking is far superior to Canon's sub par ITR that I've tried and really don't trust on my 7DII. To me having the tilting screen is a huge plus when shooting overhead shots during the reception, and when getting candid shots shooting from the hip. It's kinda hard to frame a shot when you can't see what you're shooting.

The great outdoors and wedding venues are our studio. So, in house studio work is of zero consequence to us. I could not care any less about tethering. I require equipment that gets the shot out in the field, that protects my client's memories (hence, dual slots), and has the features important to me. 

Not to mention... It makes zero business sense to pay more than double to get a 5DIV that doesn't even have the features that make my life easier (flip screen, better sensor still for high contrast scenes, & spot metering linked to AF point), is also heavier (a big deal for all day affairs), and has a less comfortable grip (also a big deal for all day affairs). So, I was really really hoping the 6DII would check the boxes.


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



magarity said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.
> ...



100% serious. It's not about capacity. It's about the ability to seamlessly have a safeguard in place, in case a card fails. If I can add an extra layer of peace of mind to my wedding photography business, you betcha that is something very important to me.

For personal work, I can understand not needing this. For someone paying thousands to document their day, it's irresponsible to play with their memories and my reputation.


----------



## MaxFoto (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Everything looks good minus the single card slot.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> For someone paying thousands to document their day, it's irresponsible to play with their memories and my reputation.



Then don't by a 6DII. Easy.


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



privatebydesign said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > magarity said:
> ...



Though they may limit the capabilities of the second card slot, you can still simultaneously write to both. It is still a backup of your data and will provide more peace of mind than a single card slot will.

As I mentioned in reply to another one of your responses... While a contract may protect your liability, that contract won't protect your reputation or your client's memories. Protecting all of these aspects to the best of one's ability is the responsible thing to do in my line of work.


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > For someone paying thousands to document their day, it's irresponsible to play with their memories and my reputation.
> ...



Indeed it is easy.  I'm already enjoying my new D750.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...



So you're pissed because one Canon camera doesn't offer what the D750 offers? You do realize that Canon has plenty of cameras that beat the crap out of the D750 right? It's one camera dude. Grow up and be a professional.


----------



## scrup (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.
> 
> Nikon introduced the D600 as its response and direct competitor to the 6D.



LOL - Nikon went back into the future to build a camera to compete with the 6D

http://cameradecision.com/compare/Nikon-D600-vs-Canon-EOS-6D


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bdunbar79 said:


> So you're pissed because one Canon camera doesn't offer what the D750 offers? You do realize that Canon has plenty of cameras that beat the crap out of the D750 right? It's one camera dude. Grow up and be a professional.



Meanwhile, a bunch of D750 owners are crying a river that their video autofocus resembles a VHS camcorder circa 1987.

The grass is always greener, folks. My personal whinefests are for spot metering at any AF point and a better, modern 50 prime made by Canon that is not a pickle jar.

Yet somehow life goes on and I don't frantically flip all my gear. That's because Canon generally does everything else just fine for me.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



scrup said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.
> ...



LOL - that's a great site you linked, it has both announcement dates wrong. By the way, I read on the Internet that the word gullible is not in the dictionary… 

Just to clarify, both cameras were announced a few days apart (the D600 first) in September, 2012. 

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/about-nikon/press-room/press-release/h6tve4go/Performance-that-Fuels-the-Passion%3A-The-New-Nikon-D600-Puts-FX-Format-in-Focus-for-Photo-Enthusiasts.html

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/about/newsroom/press-releases/press-release-details/2012/20120917_eos6d_pressreleasedata/20120917_eos6d_pressreleasedata


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bdunbar79 said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Truly... Canon doesn't offer ONE camera that has everything that is useful to me. If I want a flip screen, I have to give up a card slot (not happening). If I want two card slots, I have to use my APSC 7DII or buy a 5DIV and still not have the flip screen that is so often very useful in my work. If I want spot metering linked to the AF point (pretty damn useful out in the world), I have to spend $6k (and still give up the flip screen and carry around a brick). If I want a sensor that rivals the best at base ISO? Canon doesn't even have one of those. How about viewfinder AF tracking? Canon's antiquated ITR doesn't even come close to Nikon's 3D.

Being disappointed does not equate to being pissed. Being rude when you haven't bothered to read the entire story? Well, that's your territory apparently.

Being a professional is about making money no? Why on earth would I spend more than 2x MORE to get something that doesn't have everything I want, in the 5DIV? That makes ZERO business sense. 

The only thing Canon bodies have going for them over Nikon in my experience is really DPAF. It is lovely. I would love to have it and it's the reason I waited as long as I could to find out whether or not the 6DII would have 2 memory slots. It doesn't seem that it will, so Canon lost a customer. That's business.

Is there such a thing as a perfect rig? Surely not. But dollar for dollar, I couldn't find a better value out there than what I have.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...



Let me put it this way then: Who cares?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> The funny thing is, photography is precisely how I pay my bills. So, I guess that qualifies me as a professional. You had no way of knowing that, so no offense on my end.
> 
> My wife and I run a photography outfit, and our bread and butter is weddings. Most wedding photographers will agree that the vast majority of the shots taken during the course of the day are irreplaceable memories. Contracts protect you financially. Dual card slots protect your reputation and, as mentioned above, our client's memories. I learned my lesson early on... The first unpaid wedding we shot as a favor to a family member, I had a card fail on my 6D. Luckily, I was able to recover the files. However, it's not something I am ever willing to risk again. Two cards writing raw files simultaneously are an absolutely mandatory requirement.
> 
> ...



Me too, since 1978.

I have shot many weddings though they are not my bread and butter, I have run dual card slot cameras for 7 years and I have never used them for simultaneous RAW recording, indeed I rarely use the second slot even on my 1DX MkII's ( in those I use CFast exclusively). My only wedding disaster was with film where I miss-fed the leader and I lost a roll of film during the ceremony, know what my 'backup' was? My second body with B&W film in it. My reputation was as well protected as it is now with two cameras and a backup in the roller case if needed.

I suppose my point is, anybody relying on a single point of failure, a single body, is not well prepared enough that two slots will make a darn bit of difference 99.999999% of the time, and your story of the recovered files is a very common one, it seems the recovery rate for 'lost' images is pretty high.

Now I can understand the floppy screen, I can understand not wanting to pay a Canon premium you perceive them to have, but for wedding shooters to dump a system that has a 50 f1.2 and an 85 f1.2 for a bargain camera with two card slots makes absolutely zero sense to me.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



scrup said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.
> ...



I stand corrected -- the D600 official announcement did come first by four days, though camerdecision seems to have dates at odds with Wikipedia:

> Canon 6D (Announced September 17, 2012): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_6D
> Nikon D600 (Announced September 13, 2012): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D600

Official announcements so close together would seem to suggest that both companies saw an opportunity in the entry-level full-frame market and acted about the same time.

Perhaps it was "rumored" on this site first, and that's why in my memory it came first? Either way, my mistake.

All my other points still stand. 

PS: Given the mechanical issues with the D600, perhaps it was rushed through to be launched first? Makes me wonder if the Canon was in development earlier, with more time to get it right the first time.


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bdunbar79 said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > bdunbar79 said:
> ...



Obviously you do.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Just to clarify, both cameras were announced a few days apart (the D600 first) in September, 2012.
> 
> https://www.nikonusa.com/en/about-nikon/press-room/press-release/h6tve4go/Performance-that-Fuels-the-Passion%3A-The-New-Nikon-D600-Puts-FX-Format-in-Focus-for-Photo-Enthusiasts.html
> 
> https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/about/newsroom/press-releases/press-release-details/2012/20120917_eos6d_pressreleasedata/20120917_eos6d_pressreleasedata



Thanks for the official citations, Neuro.

Looks like Wikipedia had it right, but it's nice to have it direct from the source!


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> Obviously you do.



Let me put it my way: Honda doesn't offer one vehicle that meets my needs. I don't hang around on Honda forums complaining that they're crap (they're not); I bought a Toyota (ok, Lexus) that meets my needs, and I'm super happy about it. Why are you so worked up about Canon not delivering what you want? Enjoy the D750, good luck with the business, and stop whining to us that you don't like another brand of tool.


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



privatebydesign said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > The funny thing is, photography is precisely how I pay my bills. So, I guess that qualifies me as a professional. You had no way of knowing that, so no offense on my end.
> ...



Then we simply will never understand each-other. And, that's fine!  I'd rather not take a chance by trusting one card, and neither would my business partner (my wife who has been using that "bargain" D750 camera since it came out to great success). My current Canon gear will serve just fine in case of emergency, I don't plan on dumping it.

If one can't make beautiful images with the lenses provided by Canon, Nikon, or the third party manufacturers, one probably shouldn't be in business. I am quite satisfied with the lens lineup of both CaNikon which is why the differentiating factor for me is how they each position and price their bodies. 

Buying a camera near the end of it's run allows for more lens budget anyhow. What good are those 1.2's if I blew all my budget on a body? With the money I saved by switching, I was able to get a Sigma 135 1.8 Art as well as the 24-120 kit lens for the same price as a Mark IV and, had money left over for a steak dinner. Paying double for something that isn't any better in any tangible measure for my usage makes zero sense to me.

Thanks for the discussion!


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously you do.
> ...



Because I still have money invested in the Canon system? Because I like to talk gear? Last I checked, this is a discussion forum. That's what people do in a discussion forum. They discuss. Conversations don't last very long if everyone just pats each other on the back and agree. Just because I'm not jumping up and down in adulation doesn't mean I'm whining. As I see it, you're the one whining here simply because I'm saying something you don't like. 

Too funny.

I wasn't aware that only Canon apologists and fanboys were allowed to discuss Canon here. I own Canon gear. I own Nikon gear. Heck, I still have a Pentax, a Minolta, and a Mamiya/Sekor around here somewhere too... 

Sorry but, I'm not sorry if you don't like what I have to say. Deal with it.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 19, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

*Intrigue.photography*

How do you find the Nikon colours? I trust they are very different from the Canon ones. Technical mambo Jambo aside, I seriously dislike the Nikon skin tones. And second question re wedding album you are delivering to you client: how do you go about balancing the canon colours coming out of your back up Canon camera with Nikon colours coming out of your D750? I tried before and failed miserably. Hence shooting with two identical Canon bodies to simplify post production workflow.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



SecureGSM said:


> *Intrigue.photography*
> 
> How do you find the Nikon colours? I trust they are very different from the Canon ones. Technical mambo Jambo aside, I seriously dislike the Nikon skin tones. And second question re wedding album you are delivering to you client: how do you go about balancing the canon colours coming out of your back up Canon camera with Nikon colours coming out of your D750? I tried before and failed miserably. Hence shooting with two identical Canon bodies to simplify post production workflow.


A very good question.... I have the same problem, but shooting Canon and Olympus..... There is most definitely a colour difference.... My attempts to balance were also a failure....


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



SecureGSM said:


> *Intrigue.photography*
> 
> How do you find the Nikon colors? I trust they are very different from the Canon ones. Technical mambo Jambo aside, I seriously dislike the Nikon skin tones. And second question re wedding album you are delivering to you client: how do you go about balancing the canon colours coming out of your back up Canon camera with Nikon colours coming out of your D750? I tried before and failed miserably. Hence shooting with two identical Canon bodies to simplify post production workflow.



The Lightroom presets we use help a lot.  The biggest difference I've noticed so far is how Canon handles the reds. I think (and I'm not an expert in this), that is what tends to make the visible difference in skin-tones. We don't have any scientific method in matching. We just make sure our monitors are calibrated and use the non-scientific eyeball test to get them as close as possible.

Feel free to send me a message and I'll be happy to trade notes with you.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> Because I still have money invested in the Canon system? Because I like to talk gear? Last I checked, this is a discussion forum. That's what people do in a discussion forum. They discuss. Conversations don't last very long if everyone just pats each other on the back and agree. Just because I'm not jumping up and down in adulation doesn't mean I'm whining. As I see it, you're the one whining here simply because I'm saying something you don't like.
> 
> Too funny.
> 
> ...



We don't all agree. At all. And we don't all constantly sing the praises of Canon. What does get old, very fast, is the endless chorus of DOOMsaying from Nikon and Sony fans, and the endless pissing in Cheerios.


----------



## intrigue.photography (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > Because I still have money invested in the Canon system? Because I like to talk gear? Last I checked, this is a discussion forum. That's what people do in a discussion forum. They discuss. Conversations don't last very long if everyone just pats each other on the back and agree. Just because I'm not jumping up and down in adulation doesn't mean I'm whining. As I see it, you're the one whining here simply because I'm saying something you don't like.
> ...



I predict no doom. Nor did I ever predict doom... Unless you consider answering responses to my posts, and discussing the 6DII and it's competition, doom-saying. Nor was I whining, as you first so politely alluded. Fact is, Canon will likely remain the #1 ILC camera maker for years to come. That's fine, they make good equipment. I have no vendetta against them or, you.

It's always been the pinnacle of etiquette to in effect be told to get lost and to be called a whiner before even having been said hello to. How would my response to that rude discourse be surprising to you? Pot? Meet Kettle.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> I predict no doom. Nor did I ever predict doom... Unless you consider answering responses to my posts, and discussing the 6DII and it's competition, doom-saying. Nor was I whining, as you first so politely alluded. Fact is, Canon will likely remain the #1 ILC camera maker for years to come. That's fine, they make good equipment. I have no vendetta against them or, you.
> 
> It's always been the pinnacle of etiquette to in effect be told to get lost and to be called a whiner before even having been said hello to. How would my response to that rude discourse be surprising to you? Pot? Meet Kettle.



You come to this forum to complain about products you don't want to buy. Pretending that that is polite behavior because of carefully-crafted words is the height of disingenuousness.

Have a nice day.


----------



## sebasan (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Don't feed the trollsssss please!!!


----------



## brad-man (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > intrigue.photography said:
> ...




Hello and "welcome to the jungle" intrigue. I am suspecting that you are being lumped in with an earlier poster that was rather disrespectful of Canon's business model. I find your responses quite reasonable from your perspective. I really do hope you have a nice day


----------



## CanonCrushed (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Intrigue, I find your comments have been for the most part reasonable and objective. You obviously have very valid points, and have not appeared to be bashing at all. 

Guys, please be respectful of others if they don't blow their wad over a canon product or any other product. I thought this was a place to share opinions and have some valid input. Sadly, there are people here who just want to hear how incredible Canon is, and that they are the end all be all of technology when it comes to this industry.

FFS, stay open minded and hear the valid opinions of others who obviously do have relevant arguments or praise for Canon. We didn't join this forum because we hate Canon, we joined because expect better from a product line we enjoy.

My 2 cents and then some.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



CanonCrushed said:


> Intrigue, I find your comments have been for the most part reasonable and objective. You obviously have very valid points, and have not appeared to be bashing at all.
> 
> Guys, please be respectful of others if they don't blow their wad over a canon product or any other product. I thought this was a place to share opinions and have some valid input. Sadly, there are people here who just want to hear how incredible Canon is, and that they are the end all be all of technology when it comes to this industry.
> 
> ...


+1

A balanced view includes looking outside our box.....


----------



## dak723 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



brad-man said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



Intrigue.photography,

Your posts have been polite and reasonable. You have explained what you are dissatisfied with and your reasons for choosing the Nikon D750. You didn't whine, you didn't assume that everyone wants exactly what you want, you didn't issue the usual proclamations as if you knew better than anyone else. You chose the camera that best fit your needs. Something I wold have thought almost everyone here would agree on - that a person should choose the camera that best suits their needs.

But I guess I was wrong. Even rational discussion is treated the same as endless whining and met with rudeness and insults. 

Sad.


----------



## ricky_005 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

A bit off topic but the Glass is top of the list. The new glass soon to come from Canon will be more of the same BS ..... I want Zeiss Quality! 

Canon/Nikon make Good camera bodies and and lenses .... Canon has a slight edge in lenses.

BUT if Zeiss decided to start making auto focus lenses, Canon and Nikon would have a Very Very Serious problem on there hands!

Canon and Nikon would have no choice ..... they would have to start making high quality lenses.

I think Zeiss should get in the camera body business and put both Canon and Nikon out of business.

There's a reason why Zeiss doesn't make auto focus lenses!


----------



## CTJohn (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Maximum FPS?


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ricky_005 said:


> A bit off topic but the Glass is top of the list. The new glass soon to come from Canon will be more of the same BS ..... I want Zeiss Quality!
> 
> Canon/Nikon make Good camera bodies and and lenses .... Canon has a slight edge in lenses.
> 
> ...


 : : : : : : : : : : : : :


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



CTJohn said:


> Maximum FPS?



We still don't know yet. 

The 6D1 was 4.5 if memory serves, so a bump above that figure but below the 5D4's 7 fps figure would appear to be in order.

An old rumor (here, I believe) was that the 6D2 would be 6 fps, which seems about right. Still think the 5D4 should have been 8-9 fps for clearer differentiation with the 6D2 on this front, but what do I know?

- A


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## scjayne (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

The new 6D MkII has a digic 7 processor while the old 6D has a 5 (or 5+?). What does the new DIGIC 7 do to improve the new camera? Also is there does anyone have a feel for the difference (if any) in the dynamic range between the two camera? Thanks.


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## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



mppix said:


> Still, it is beyond me how that can be the main cause to switch systems. Minor changes to the workflow are as or more effective agqinst file loss. Also, backup requires to identical slots IMHO. The settngs on 1X2 and 5D4 don't really let u use the cams to their max. capabilities and u find ways to deal with it.



I can understand intrigue's decision. You can take a rational decision about the chance of a card failing and being happy with a single card slot, but once you have had a total card failure it is likely some people will re-evaulate those risks. How many people institute computer back-ups only after they have already had one crashed disc - this is the same principle (I am one of those who paid lip service to back up routine until I had a crash). 

And if the card has failed completely, any workflow after that is irrelevant. 

So to you, it is a minor factor. To a pro who does not want to repeat the experience the second card slot moves up the list of priorities. I also note that intrigue is saying it was a factor for him. Trolls like 'K' insist everyone wants it.


----------



## bart13 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I once removed the cardreader from my laptop before it was done copying the files and the card became unreadable without formatting. Its really not funny when some one pays you to fly to the other side of the continent and you have to tell him you lost part or all of the stuff you shot. Luckily I didn't loose many important photos that time. So yes, I understand why people want it.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



SecureGSM said:


> *Intrigue.photography*
> 
> How do you find the Nikon colours? I trust they are very different from the Canon ones. Technical mambo Jambo aside, I seriously dislike the Nikon skin tones. And second question re wedding album you are delivering to you client: how do you go about balancing the canon colours coming out of your back up Canon camera with Nikon colours coming out of your D750? I tried before and failed miserably. Hence shooting with two identical Canon bodies to simplify post production workflow.


Trust you are talking about RAW files(?)

1) Any one serious about colors should really make a custom color profile for all their camera body/lens combo's. Problem solved. Only DR differences then come into play. Its a relatively small effort and pay's off greatly in the long run.

2) Even if you try to go with "Canon colors" they actually vary somewhat between Canon bodies too - most likely due to sensor differences. I find Canon's 5DS/R and 5DIV RAW color profiles are a step up from Canon's 5DII/5DIII profiles (after Canon corrected their originally horrible/useless 5DS/R profile).


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## drob (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



einstein72586 said:


> This is my very first post on this site so I fully expect someone to argue with me. As a hobbyist that has debated upgrading from crop(7d mark II) to a full frame(have been waiting for the 6d mark II), I have experienced card failure first hand and I am thankful that my camera has dual slots. The extra slot saved pictures that I would of lost from a two week vacation overseas in the Philippines. The idea of a semi-pro camera that cost more then mine with only one card slot has killed my notion of upgrading to the 6d mark II or even having it as a second body. I am good with all the other specs, but one card slot I have learned is dangerous.



I've used the Canon 60D and 6D with SanDisc SD cards now over the last 6 years and have never had a card issue. I have also taken the advice of many and use smaller 8 or 16GB cards and change them every 2 days or when they fill up so that in the event that there was an issue, there would only be a day or 2 of loss. Yes, having 2 card slots would be nice but logically Canon wouldn't put 2 slots on the "entry level" camera, even if it was a full frame. One thing you might also consider with card failures is whether or not you are purchasing counterfit cards? I've stopped buying from Amazon with "eco friendly" packaging and opt to buy from local stores with actual packaging knowing that your card is authentic.


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## Pippan (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



drob said:


> I've used the Canon 60D and 6D with SanDisc SD cards now over the last 6 years and have never had a card issue. I have also taken the advice of many and use smaller 8 or 16GB cards and change them every 2 days or when they fill up so that in the event that there was an issue, there would only be a day or 2 of loss. Yes, having 2 card slots would be nice but logically Canon wouldn't put 2 slots on the "entry level" camera, even if it was a full frame. One thing you might also consider with card failures is whether or not you are purchasing counterfit cards? I've stopped buying from Amazon with "eco friendly" packaging and opt to buy from local stores with actual packaging knowing that your card is authentic.


I don't understand the use of small capacity cards. Even with large capacity cards you can swap them out, download from them, back up and reformat to go again regularly. And certainly 2 days or especially 2 weeks is too long--nightly at the longest. And if you do need to crank off a couple of thousand shots, you can. Might be more chance of damaging a card by dropping it, or losing it, when it's not in the camera. 

I've never had a card fail either and use these rules to minimise the risk of it happening:

Always use cards from reputable manufacturers (Sandisk or Lexar)
Always low-level format a card in the camera you will use it in, right before a session (assuming you have downloaded and backed up previous images)
Never delete or edit images on a card
Never completely fill a card.
Never turn off the camera or remove a card while it’s being written to.
Never touch a card’s contacts or allow water, dirt, dust, salt spray etc near them.
Always download through a good quality card reader (instead of a cheapie or by connecting the camera to a computer or hard drive with a cable)
Never leave a card connected to a computer for longer than necessary.
Always eject a card from a computer properly.

Please don't ask me to explain the rationale for these rules as I don't know enough. They are just what I've gleaned from various internet sites.

The 6D MkII looks like it will be a 36x24 version of my 80D, which I love, and will tick all the boxes for me. I am excited.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

*Maiaibing*,
Thank you for the solid advice.
yes, RAW files, of course.
1. yes, colour calibration should, logicaly, have the problem solved. but in reallity I ended up with very close matched colour profiles, but not quite. My understanding is that colour variation I am experiencing is due to RGB filter implementation differences between these two brands. nothing to worry about though. I am _extremely_ happy with my 6D's ( untill such a time when I am ready to trade up to a better AFocusing Canon camera. be that 5DMIV or 6DMII.
2. yes, I can detect slight colour variation between 5DMIII and my 6Ds.




Maiaibing said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > *Intrigue.photography*
> ...


----------



## Antono Refa (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Pippan said:


> Always download through a good quality card reader (instead of a cheapie or by connecting the camera to a computer or hard drive with a cable)



Learned that the hard way, when a cheapo card reader fucked up one image every not so often. Threw it to the trash, and been using Lexar and Sandisk card readers without a hickup ever since.


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## ashmadux (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hornet said:


> I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.



Agreed on the 4k, but what are you smoking about no reason to upgrade? Just the AF on the 6d alone is a reason to upgrade...its trash, the worst in any modern day camera. The only reason i haven't sold mine yet is because of the iso performance.

This is basically an entirely new camera, save for the single slot...that's just canon being mean. The list of omitted features will be interesting, and I figure just like the 80d, there will be no spot AF. Canon will do whatever it takes to make this a clear step down from the 5d4..lets just hope some of those other things don't end up burying this camera.


For 2k though...hmm...not sure its worth it just to have a full framer.

swivel screen?


----------



## K (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



intrigue.photography said:


> The funny thing is, photography is precisely how I pay my bills. So, I guess that qualifies me as a professional. You had no way of knowing that, so no offense on my end.
> 
> My wife and I run a photography outfit, and our bread and butter is weddings. Most wedding photographers will agree that the vast majority of the shots taken during the course of the day are irreplaceable memories. Contracts protect you financially. Dual card slots protect your reputation and, as mentioned above, our client's memories. I learned my lesson early on... The first unpaid wedding we shot as a favor to a family member, I had a card fail on my 6D. Luckily, I was able to recover the files. However, it's not something I am ever willing to risk again. *Two cards writing raw files simultaneously are an absolutely mandatory requirement.*
> 
> ...




Excellent post ^^^


1. Here is yet another real world working pro advocating the importance of dual card slots. Every single one I've run into also has the same exact opinion. Many highly popular Youtubers also advocate it as an important feature. The pros I've seen or worked with who don't have dual slots are in the process of upgrading to dual slots...bingo! This means NO Canon if they can't pony up the $3,300. Only in this forum, among the apologists and fanatics do we constantly hear the downplaying of dual card slots...

2. Some will dismiss this because he's a pro. But dual slots is important for others too. Any decent vacation is going to run at least $5,000 and that is going very cheap...to travel to interesting and amazing once in a lifetime places is easily double that or more. Yeah, I want to go to Machu Picchu or the Great Wall - shoot on my turd 6D2 and have the Sandisk card decide to die on me. Oh well...But forget even the travelers. Birth of a child - this is once in a lifetime. You don't get another chance at that....the list goes on. There are many reasons for even non-pros to want data security. Even a hobbyist - why waste time and energy reshooting something?

3. Canon has built their entire EOS reputation since 1987 on AF. Yet, Nikon has surpassed them on this. They will never admit it (the Canon apologists), but Nikon has a slight edge in some regards on AF. The 3D tracking on Nikon is impressive. Canon's is confused and clumsy and basically doesn't work. On single point, they are both similar. On speed, it really depends on lens. Overall, the best AF camera is the 1DX2 - but other than that, Nikon beats Canon with the D5, D500, D750, D810 ...

4. Nikon is far from perfect, and they have their gripes too. But their bodies at this price range are stacked with capability that you cannot get in Canon unless you move up $1,300 to the 5D line. 

That said, the barrier-for-entry in Canon for FF with data safety is $3,300. 

For Nikon, it's $1,500 when the D750 is on sale every few months, $1,800 regular. 


5. I'm not sure why some of these apologists and fanatics even bother sharing their irrelevant opinions? Most of them admittedly run 1DX, 1DX2 and 5D series cameras and have multiple pro bodies. This is like a Mercedes Benz collector walking into a conversation among two Honda owners who are hoping next year's model has side impact airbags and constantly shitting on them for expecting some reasonable safety at that price point.

6. Again, read it and weep Canon zealots -- $2,000 - mid-2017 - FF ...single card slot. Unacceptable. 


***

The 6D2 was, for a LOT of people - a huge reason to hold out and wait. But with Canon laying the egg and giving only 1 card slot, they have sent a massive slap across the face to their users and straight up are saying if you have any commercial applications whatsoever - you're paying $3,300 in Canonland. This camera might just be the biggest let down release from Canon of all time. This won't mean it won't sell - we've covered that 10x over. There's enough volume of EOS system users who have no choice to make sure no execs at Canon get fired over this camera.


Now with the 6D2 being single slot useless -- there's no reason to hold out. If you're not hopelessly "invested" aka trapped in Canon glass, time to liquidate and move on if you need a modern sensor and not have to pay $3K or more. In 2017 and Canon is putting out a $2,000 FF with single slot tells you that they have no intention of EVER reversing course on this decision to cripple cameras. Another 4-5 years from now will not magically produce any kind of time-based or evolutionary based reasoning for adding it. It is safe to say, the 6D3 if such a camera ever arrives will be the same single slot uselessness as the previous 2 generations. 

Which makes everything I've said correct. Canon has, a long time ago, decided that this one, simple, basic feature is of great, great importance. And for that reason, they omit it.

Also, those people who said AF is a bigger factor in product separation - nope. It is a factor, but no where near as important as dual slots. Canon agrees with me given their actions. But even the AF is nerfed. Nikon put the same AF system in the D45, D810 in the D750. And this is a GOOD system that is better than the 5D series....


Canon makes great products and is a market leader. But none of that changes the fact that the 6D2, based on the rumored specs, is a poor value and an underspecced camera.


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## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

So let's have a prediction here.
Based on the fact that dual card slots are (in your opinion) so important, you are predicting that the 6D2 having one card slot will cause Canon to lose market share and cause users (especially professionals) to migrate to Nikon. 

And at some point after the release of the 6D2 you will also move to Nikon. 

Is that correct?


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## jeffa4444 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that Nikon had to cut the prices so drastically is a fair indicator of how unsuccessful that attempt turned out.
> ...



My "crappy" 6D earned me way more than it cost me and I'm no stills pro. Any tool is only as good as the person using it you can have hundreds of AF points etc. but many factors go into making photographs others admire or aspire too including a measure of good luck (being in the right place at the right time). Sure Canon could do some things better but they are a long way short of a failure and the 6D has consistently out sold the Nikon D610 and the D750.


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## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> ashmadux said:
> 
> 
> > Just the AF on the 6d alone is a reason to upgrade...its trash, the worst in any modern day camera.
> ...



Blah! blah! blah!.. Nikongive 2 card slots....blah! blah! blah! ....Nikons AF is better....

If these issues are so important, it should override any quality of the sensor,,,sorry, the Nikon has a better sensor as well.

So why the hell do Canon sell more 6D than Nikon sell D750? The Nikon is a $2,500 camera dropped to $2000 and still can't outsell the 6D. 
The 6D is an entry level FF DSLR so it is at the tipping point of people wondering which system to follow next. And Nikon still can't tempt them over.

Why? You still have not given a cogent answer, whining only about Canon locking people in because of the lenses.

There is one other explanation - that the things you think are so important are, in the grand scheme of things...not so important. They matter to some, but not enough people for Canon to rethink their strategy.


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## Orangutan (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> intrigue.photography said:
> 
> 
> > The funny thing is, photography is precisely how I pay my bills. So, I guess that qualifies me as a professional. You had no way of knowing that, so no offense on my end.
> ...


No one said it wasn't a good idea, there's just debate about whether it's essential. Your personal anecdotes do not constitute a valid scientific poll. You may be correct, or you may not be. You are entitled to feel as you do, but not to browbeat others who do not.




> 2. Some will dismiss this because he's a pro. But dual slots is important for others too.


Again, I agree that it's important for non-pros. The question is how important it is, and that's a personal/emotional decision.




> 3. Canon has built their entire EOS reputation since 1987 on AF. Yet, Nikon has surpassed them on this.


Sure, OK; I'm willing to accept the possibility that Nikon has slightly better AF than Canon. Now what? In truth, both are so good that it comes down much more to user skill than to the AF system. Again, you're entitled to your opinion and the emotional comfort of an AF system that may be somewhat better, but why browbeat others who achieve their desired results with what they have?



> 4. Nikon is far from perfect, and they have their gripes too. But their bodies at this price range are stacked with capability that you cannot get in Canon unless you move up $1,300 to the 5D line.


Yet again, not everyone needs those features that are "stacked" in Nikon bodies.




> 5. I'm not sure why some of these apologists and fanatics even bother sharing their irrelevant opinions? Most of them admittedly run 1DX, 1DX2 and 5D series cameras and have multiple pro bodies.


I shoot a 70D, mostly for nature and birds these days. I've never had a card fail, and I use a "budget" brand (Transcend). I wish my 70D had a few more features, but I enjoy it and it serves my needs. I may get a 6D2 in 6 months or so, and it will be a huge upgrade for me.



> 6. Again, read it and weep Canon zealots -- $2,000 - mid-2017 - FF ...single card slot. Unacceptable.



Meh.


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## unfocused (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> ...Which makes everything I've said correct...



I don't think so.

You have your *opinion* and you've expressed it over and over again in innumerable redundant posts. But, repeating an opinion doesn't make it correct.

Only time will tell if you are right. If the 6DII fails in the marketplace, you can gloat all you want. But, many people here don't believe that will be the case.

The 6D was roundly criticized on this forum and by reviewers for its weak autofocus (oh, yeah, it also only had one card slot). Yet, it became the best selling full frame DSLR on the market. And, yes, that is *all* that matters. 

Of course, you and other disgruntled customers like to dismiss the marketplace, but that's just being pigheaded. 

And, just so you understand (which I doubt you do), the argument that people buying the 6DII are just sheep who are trapped in the Canon system is a bit silly. Most people buying a 6D will be buying their first full-frame camera. 

The cost of entry into full frame is expensive, no matter how you cut it, because it also means new lenses for the average APS-C user. But, switching systems isn't that much more expensive. Those that own some full frame lenses aren't trapped, because the used market remains strong for Canon glass. So, the cost of moving from Canon crop frame to Nikon isn't really that much more expensive than staying with Canon.

Yet, most end up choosing Canon. Is that because Canon is inherently better for everyone? No. But, give people a little credit. They are making the decision based on what is best for them. It is beyond me why people like you are so insecure that you cannot abide the thought that others might have a legitimately different opinion than you.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Re: card failures.

how many that are so worried about card failures rotate their cards?

you should have at least 4-5 times as many cards as what you use before you wiping and use them again, and also remove ones that are getting old.

just like SSD's .. SD / CF cards are little SSD's inside with wear leveling. there's only so many times a bit can be overwritten before it starts to lose it's ability to store that bit.

I tend to trash my cards (all of them) every 2-3 years. Why? because they get extensively written and re-formatted, more so than my SSD's in my laptop.

if you're still using a card from 2012 and complaining about lack of dual card slots, I'd look no further than the mirror to be honest.

Cards (UHS-I, 64/128GB SD cards) are so cheap there's no excuse for not rotating and decommissioning cards.

Also never ever shut off the camera as soon as you are done shooting the instant the camera says it's done saving.

SD cards in particular are asynchronous. the wear leveling happens *AFTER* the card reports back the file is saved. Just saying, your SD card can be working it's tiny little heart out saving data to non toasted memory areas and you pull the plug on it. Some cards are better at handling this than others. Same with SSD's for that matter.

Granted, that doesn't help you if you are on a boat cruise, and you flip open your camera to change the battery and your SD card springs out of the camera like it's escaping prison and does two bounces before diving into the water.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Most people buying a 6D will be buying their first full-frame camera.



people tend to think that enthusiasts rule the roost when it comes to camera sales. People tend to forget how many people purchase APS-C canon cameras over the years.

Canon's installed mount base is enormous. probably totaling well over 40 to 60 million. that's alot of cameras that *may* be interested in upgrading to a 6D.

the vast majority of them don't have dual card slots, they don't have 4K - they are looking for a decent upgrade to their x, y or z camera and probably have a few full frame lenses to boot.


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## K (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> Still think the 5D4 should have been 8-9 fps for clearer differentiation with the 6D2 on this front, but what do I know?
> 
> - A




7-8 fps is the magic number.

Beyond that, you enter a new realm of capability for shooting action. 

*Canon does not sell camera bodies, they sell capability.*


Capabilities are linked to certain specs / features.


Think of it this way, it is like the law of diminishing returns sort of. The biggest gains by percentage are gained at lower FPS. Going from 5 fps to 8 fps is a tremendous leap compared to say 14 fps to 16 fps. 

There exists an arbitrary, opinion based "barrier" for when action shooting becomes reasonably good. That barrier starts at 8 fps and gets going at 9 fps and is full force at 10 fps and beyond in my opinion but the photography world substantiates this. Ranges of FPS speed can indeed be categorized. Mirrorless is getting quite fast. Eventually, the FPS will reach 24 - 30 at which point we're in the "pull stills from video" era that some theorize will happen. 

If the 5D4 had 9fps - it would be fast enough to suit the action shooting needs of many users, and yes, would chop into some sales of 1DX series bodies among those who need speed AND FF - but not the ultimate in speed. 

There are wedding pros that run the 1DX/2 - yet there's no need to. Why? Biggest reason - speed. Capturing the perfect first kiss, bouquet toss and other moments at reception at the perfect moment is useful. You get more keepers. Even candids - more keepers. More shots at the best moments, more shots to avoid blinks. More keepers - to produce more product to the client.


With the exception of the most serious side-lines sports pros, who are a tiny minority of users (although big dollar users), many FF users needing speed would be satisfied with 9 fps. 9 fps is fast enough to get more keepers at best moments and save $3,000 for a body. It hits the "good enough" barrier. After that, it becomes a tough choice between spending $3,000 more, for getting only a small fraction of more keepers. It becomes expensive to do that. Sports pros need that. Capturing the perfect catch, or pole vault, or goal, kick, bat, leap, dive, flip -- in their realm it matters a lot. The wedding pro and event shooter has an environment that can benefit from speed, but isn't as absolutely critical as the sports pro at the Olympics shooting gymnastics.


For this reason, Canon kept the 5D4 at a nice safe 7 fps. There's no tech barrier to 8 fps for this camera. Or even 9 fps. It is an intentional hold-back. They gave 7 merely to show they evolved the camera upwards, but as little as they could possibly get away with. I can buy the tech reason for not having 11-12 fps...sure. I get it, bigger motor and shutter / mirror mechanism. I find it hard to believe they couldn't give 8 fps...or even 9.


It also kills 7D2 sales for FF users who want speed but are willing to partially compromise. A 9 fps 5D4 means no need to sling a 7D2 as a side camera. Some photographers compromise and settle for crop IQ in order to have speed for those key moments. That's another $1,500 lost!!! $3,300 + $1,500 ...for FF & speed (albeit crop). Can't have that! Does anyone really think they designed the controls of the 7D2 body like the 5D series because wildlife shooters wanted it that way? LOL. Wake up people. It's to keep it the same as the 5D3/4 because they are counting on them to buy this as a second camera. Wedding pros want same controls when switching fast. Less confusion. Wildlife shooters want weather sealing, not necessarily the control layout of the 5D. Being the 7D2 is a different size, there's no reason they couldn't have gone with a different layout.

Think this is BS? Go watch several Canon equipped wedding pros work...


Mirrorless is gradually putting an end to this FPS segmentation nonsense to a large extent. FPS will become more decoupled from being a segmenting factor. Already current mirrorless cameras can put out impressive FPS. There will still be the sports cameras and the regular ones, but the regular cameras are already fast enough and getting better. Those not demanding of the most extreme FPS, like wedding pros will no longer have to make compromises or choices over FPS. That will be off the table as a concern, since it will be satisfied and a given.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> Why? Biggest reason - speed. Capturing the perfect first kiss, bouquet toss and other moments at reception at the perfect moment is useful. You get more keepers. Even candids - more keepers. More shots at the best moments, more shots to avoid blinks. More keepers - to produce more product to the client.



with a wedding photographer, time is money, i doubt many are rattling off 14 fps on an ongoing basis to have to deal with that in post.

Most pros that I'm aware of for this work that use the 1 series prefer the 1 series ergonomics over the 5D etc ergonomics and also for the rock solid dependability of the camera body, extra large battery performance and integrated grip all make their life easier.

Also support. a 1DX Mark II and a 24-70 2.8L II is enough for Gold CPS membership.

if you think that a higher FPS 5D would kill 7D Mark II sales, I think you entire miss the purpose of the 7D Mark II.

the 7D Mark II places more pixels on target than any canon camera.


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## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> A 9 fps 5D4 means no need to sling a 7D2 as a side camera. Some photographers compromise and settle for crop IQ in order to have speed for those key moments. That's another $1,500 lost!!! $3,300 + $1,500 ...for FF & speed (albeit crop). Can't have that! Does anyone really think they designed the controls of the 7D2 body like the 5D series because wildlife shooters wanted it that way? LOL. Wake up people. It's to keep it the same as the 5D3/4 because they are counting on them to buy this as a second camera. Wedding pros want same controls when switching fast. Less confusion. Wildlife shooters want weather sealing, not necessarily the control layout of the 5D. Being the 7D2 is a different size, there's no reason they couldn't have gone with a different layout.
> 
> Think this is BS? Go watch several Canon equipped wedding pros work...



You were doing so well up to that point. Not only are Canon apparently trying to second guess the wishes of their customers, but also second guess how to best place the 7D2 as a second body for people who want the 5D4. Jeez, you really are in tinfoil hat territory.
And all this based on the assumption (no more than that) that putting in a 9fps shutter is absolutely no different to a 6 or 7 fps shutter 



K said:


> Mirrorless is gradually putting an end to this FPS segmentation nonsense to a large extent. FPS will become more decoupled from being a segmenting factor. Already current mirrorless cameras can put out impressive FPS. There will still be the sports cameras and the regular ones, but the regular cameras are already fast enough and getting better. Those not demanding of the most extreme FPS,* like wedding pros will no longer have to make compromises or choices over FPS*. That will be off the table as a concern, since it will be satisfied and a given.


True. And by the time that takes full traction, I bet that Canon will be full-bore into the FF mirrorless market and possibly beating Sony at their own game.


----------



## K (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Orangutan said:


> Yet again, not everyone needs those features that are "stacked" in Nikon bodies.



The age old "needs" argument. Rehashed for the 500th time.


Need or not -- poor value. Better to have and not need, than need and not have. Who, other that some Canon apologists and extremists - kicks and screams like toddlers that they would be given 2 card slots or better AF? Where is the condemnation for the 45pt AF system??????? From the 6D threads of years past, dozens of apologists told us "11pt AF is all I NEED" or "4.5 fps is all I NEED"...good. Then tell Canon you didn't want 45 pts. Tell them you want 4.5 fps again since that is all they need. They don't. Silence. Crickets. 

Why? They are OK with it. They welcome it. Then, since they are ok with features above their needs, why not get reasonable value especially compared to say, the favorite example here - the D750??

LOL. What clowns. So long as a nerfed and crippled Canon camera has "what I need" they are happy with any additional, above their needs specs without complaints - UNLESS IT'S DUAL CARD SLOTS, then all hell breaks loose and it must be contested by all means when it is suggested that should have been added. What made it into the camera is OK. What didn't make it in, must be ruled as heresy and fought against tooth and nail. Zealots chant -Must defend Canon. Must defend Canon. Must defend Canon. 


Either way, $2000 FF body in 2017 and 1 card slot? Total joke.


You replied to that with "meh" which I accept as your concession since you have no response.




> > 6. Again, read it and weep Canon zealots -- $2,000 - mid-2017 - FF ...single card slot. Unacceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> Meh.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

And yet again your inability to understand an argument is capably demonstrated. 

Has anyone said the 2 slots do not have a use? No-one that I know of - all I've seen people say is that it is not as important as you make it out to be and for them it is not a dealbreaker when buying a camera. 

But in your own myopic self-obsesssed world you are incapable of thinking about such subtleties.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Most people buying a 6D will be buying their first full-frame camera.
> ...



Yes. I had to smile when "K" mentioned Machu Picchu. What do you suppose the ratio of single-card vs. dual-card slot cameras might be at any popular tourist site – 1,000 to 1? 10,000 to 1?


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Yes. I had to smile when "K" mentioned Machu Picchu. What do you suppose the ratio of single-card vs. dual-card slot cameras might be at any popular tourist site – 1,000 to 1? 10,000 to 1?



That is only because 9,999 do not realise they need dual card slots, and if they saw the light they would then realise how essential it is and move to Nikon because the 6D2 doesn't have one.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

On paper the specs of the D750 seem better for the lower price. However, there's more than just specs that need to be considered.

As a Canon shooter and hobbyist, I don't know that much about Nikon's lens offerings and I would be somewhat skeptical as to why Nikon's price is that much lower for something "better". A few things come to mind when I think of Nikon:

[list type=decimal]
[*]The D600 sensor oil spot issue.
[*]Is Nikon really in trouble? Back in Feb, there was a lot of buzz about Nikon's restructuring (https://fstoppers.com/business/nikon-announces-company-plans-moving-forward-financial-crisis-167270)
[*]Are Nikon's premium lenses better or on par w/ Canon's L lenses? This is just my ignorance.
[/list]

Perhaps Nikon is trying to win back the folks who tried to go FF w/ the D600 only to be burned by offering the better-spec'd D750.

As for the second card slot argument: folks, this is an entry-level FF camera, not professional. I've only had one SD card issue (it was the card, not the camera) so having a second slot hasn't been needed in the years I've owned my 6D. If I were a professional shooter, I'd def consider a camera that had two. Not everyone and their moms need 2 card slots.


----------



## amorse (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

With the 6D becoming the best selling full-frame camera on the market, is it any wonder that Canon would repeat the same formula with the 6DII? None of this should be a surprise to anyone. Sales are going to dictate the path Canon takes in development and marketing of their cameras, just like any other manufacturer.

Yes, plenty of other cameras on the market have advantages in one feature or another, but many haven't translated into gains in market share, so I would suggest that those advancements are not being demanded by the market. People vote with their wallet.

If I were buying into market again today, I would still choose Canon's cameras even though other manufacturers have features I'd appreciate at the same price point. Why? Because I see choosing a manufacturer as a long-term investment: once I buy lenses for that camera I expect it to work with my next camera body too. Looking at the financial performance of camera manufactures today, I am just too concerned that Nikon is struggling and may not be around long enough to keep selling me cameras over the coming years. Same for Pentax. Canon is the only company which I have seen as being rock solid in the camera market with enough of the features I want. That's enough for me to forgo *some* features.


----------



## tron (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

An entry level FF camera may not have a 2nd card slot but in that case the price should be corrected downwards. Just my opinion. Of course buyers decide that. I believe its price will get lower rather soon (6 months?) from its release. We will see.


----------



## Etienne (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:

Many of us need to do both video and photography. The constant refrain that you should bring a video camera and a stills camera is made almost exclusively by people who don't shoot video. Laforet explains that it is usually not possible to bring and manage that much gear. 

This video is well done, and it highlights that 4K is just the start. Of course few people can buy a Red today, but the technology on display is the future, and the issues he addresses wrt equipment and capabilities are with us right now. It won't be long before we are shooting 4K RAW in a small affordable camera. I seriously doubt that Canon will get there first. Watch for Sony and Panasonic to bring this magic to the masses.

https://vimeo.com/221851116


----------



## scyrene (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> 1. Here is yet another real world working pro advocating the importance of dual card slots. Every single one I've run into also has the same exact opinion. Many highly popular Youtubers also advocate it as an important feature. The pros I've seen or worked with who don't have dual slots are in the process of upgrading to dual slots...bingo! This means NO Canon if they can't pony up the $3,300. *Only in this forum, among the apologists and fanatics do we constantly hear the downplaying of dual card slots...*
> 
> 2. Some will dismiss this because he's a pro. But dual slots is important for others too. *Any decent vacation is going to run at least $5,000 and that is going very cheap*...to travel to interesting and amazing once in a lifetime places is easily double that or more. Yeah, I want to go to Machu Picchu or the Great Wall - shoot on my* turd 6D2* and have the Sandisk card decide to die on me. Oh well...But forget even the travelers. Birth of a child - *this is once in a lifetime.* You don't get another chance at that....the list goes on. There are many reasons for even non-pros to want data security. Even a hobbyist - why waste time and energy reshooting something?
> 
> ...



I think the reason some people here have reacted to what you say so strongly is your hyperbole. I've highlighted some examples above.

Relying on one memory card may well be risky - but in the personal examples you give above, you have time to swap cards. Say you lose a day's photos - that would be a shame in the holiday scenario but not a total loss if you swap cards each day (or download the photos each day), and no problem at all with the child scenario - your baby isn't changing on a daily basis (and the chances of the card failing on a day when it did matter - like a birthday - are even more infinitesimal than it failing in general).

Clearly this is a big deal to you, but belittling those who disagree is uncalled for. Calling everyone who disagrees with you - however reasonably, however supported by example or evidence, a 'fanatic' or 'apologist' is a great way to alienate everyone and make people think you a fool. I think you've let this become an obsession, and blown its importance way out of proportion. Try to calm down. I'm not sure what value your insulting people brings to these forums.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Etienne said:


> Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:
> 
> Many of us need to do both video and photography. The constant refrain that you should bring a video camera and a stills camera is made almost exclusively by people who don't shoot video. Laforet explains that it is usually not possible to bring and manage that much gear.
> 
> ...



No-one is doubting that video is becoming more popular. 
The issue is those who say that the 6D should be a $2,000 FF camera with 4k - something that no-one else offers; yet Canon should seemingly add 4k without an increase in cost because, they assume, the technology is there so they can do it virtually no cost. A meme that even Vincent has fallen for.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



scyrene said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Here is yet another real world working pro advocating the importance of dual card slots. Every single one I've run into also has the same exact opinion. Many highly popular Youtubers also advocate it as an important feature. The pros I've seen or worked with who don't have dual slots are in the process of upgrading to dual slots...bingo! This means NO Canon if they can't pony up the $3,300. *Only in this forum, among the apologists and fanatics do we constantly hear the downplaying of dual card slots...*
> ...



+1

Forgot to highlight "*Now with the 6D2 being single slot useless*". I've taken plenty of shots w/ just one slot so "useless" is a bit extreme.

And I actually would prefer more AF points than an extra SD slot. There's no point in having the extra storage to hold an image that's out of focus right? Do you really think SD cards of today are that unreliable? Have you had a lot of bad luck w/ SD cards? Just trying to understand why two slots is so important to you that you believe it's a must-have.


----------



## scrup (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

There is more chance your camera getting stolen then a card failing.

Good to have 2 slots but not a necessity.

Pros need to get the 5D, stop being a tightwad and put down the dough.


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## unfocused (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:
> ...



There is also the issue that convergence inevitably leads to divergence.

To explain: Video was added to DSLRs as an afterthought. A nice "bonus" that didn't really add any cost to the cameras. Suddenly, videographers discovered how useful video in a DSLR could be. Amateurs who had no experience and resources for full scale video began finding they could do video on the cheap with DSLRs and with the simultaneous growth of You Tube it exploded. 

But there are limits to convergence. A video camera is not a stills camera and at some point the needs of one begin to conflict with the needs of the other, or at a minimum, the "free" aspect of video starts to get expensive as technology advances. Especially as people become more sophisticated in their use of video and demand more specialized functions and features. 

So, we are left with compromises. I expect that eventually 4K may be readily available in all DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras, but I also suspect that as technology marches forward, it will become increasingly difficult to design cameras that do it all. It's really no surprise to me that Canon is moving cautiously on the 4K front and given the weak implementation by other brands, we are probably in for more divergence than convergence in the coming years.


----------



## amorse (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bereninga said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



If anyone else finds the 6DII to be useless, I'd be happy to take theirs! I'll find a use for it.


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> No-one is doubting that video is becoming more popular.
> The issue is those who say that the 6D should be a $2,000 FF camera with 4k - something that no-one else offers; yet Canon should seemingly add 4k without an increase in cost because, they assume, the technology is there so they can do it virtually no cost. A meme that even Vincent has fallen for.



Yup. This is exactly why I would honestly love to see Canon exclude video from future DSLRs. Video is "free". Sure. Until you demand enough processing for higher bitrate, 4k, this codec, that codec, add a clean HDMI-out port, a headphone port, added cooling so that it's not "crippled" to a restricted clip length, and so on. All this is expected to be free, of course, because "video is free". Video in DSLRs created an expectation that DSLRs are going to be equal to full-bore video cameras and then people whine when they aren't. For free.

My conclusion, if I were Canon, would be that the video freaks cannot be pleased and are bad customers, expecting the world for free. They're not worth chasing, not with DSLRs.


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## BurningPlatform (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Etienne said:


> Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/221851116



As Laforet says, 8k is the next step towards convergence, provided it has RAW recording capability. It is a pity that 6D2 will not have it, though. I remember when DV cameras were a step towards convergence. And then HD. And now 4k. But for serious photography the 8MB 4k frame grabs are of course still useless.

But it is not yet my ideal camera, which would have the following specifications:
- fixed lens with full 4*pi field of view
- enough pixels so that you can select an equivalent of 1000mm lens field of view from the full zillion MB spherical image with 8k resolution in post. I have not calculated how many pixels that means in practical terms, though I think it is quite many.
- at least 1000 fps to be able to record e.g. lightning strikes.
- no quality loss when shooting at night.
- fully logarithmic response to exposure from near darkness to surface luminosity of the sun, with no banding. 

Maybe I will have to keep waiting for a while. I may pick up a 6D2 in the mean time, though, and just try to capture the magic moments manually.


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## Mikehit (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BurningPlatform said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:
> ...



You are K and I claim my $5.


----------



## Khalai (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



I find hysterically ironic, that "K" post rank qualifies him/her as "6D" - the very body he/she loathes so much and probably has a few preowned 6D bodies at his/her home for hammer-bashing practice 8)


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## wildwalker (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> I find hysterically ironic, that "K" post rank qualifies him/her as "6D" - the very body he/she loathes so much and probably has a few preowned 6D bodies at his/her home for hammer-bashing practice 8)



Awwww, time for an upgrade K, 6DMk2 perhaps?


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## snappy604 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

what no discussion on the really important features they did add?? ;D
- Wi-Fi
- Bluetooth
- NFC

Are they new printer button or will it bring more value than say dual slot or 4k? seems to add cost without the benefit other features would bring. Curious to how people would use these.

don't mind me, just adding to the noise!


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## ahsanford (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> I find hysterically ironic, that "K" post rank qualifies him/her as "6D" - the very body he/she loathes so much and probably has a few preowned 6D bodies at his/her home for hammer-bashing practice 8)



Effing brilliant. Good catch.

- A


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## Khalai (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



snappy604 said:


> what no discussion on the really important features they did add?? ;D
> - Wi-Fi
> - Bluetooth
> - NFC
> ...



Wi-Fi is not new, original 6D has that as well 

I'm still waiting on "Inspiration" button along with "Artistic vision" front dial. Wonder when they'll finally add those.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills. 

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.


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## BurningPlatform (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> You are K and I claim my $5.



I don't know which one of us you try to offend, but no $5 for you. I actually really like the specs of 6D2 for the price but I am too old to use explicit sarcasm markers. Oh, those good old days...


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## ahsanford (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



privatebydesign said:


> Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.
> 
> The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.



Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A


----------



## Khalai (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.
> ...



Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed than the video frame rate


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## unfocused (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

K, just curious: Do you carry on this much with the release of a new Rebel?

6DI = Rebel + Full-Frame

Just as it sounds silly to complain about Rebels without 4K and dual card slots, it seems silly (to me) for people to complain about 6D series without 4K and dual card slots. (It's not silly to be disappointed -- just to moan and gripe while completely failing to recognize that you don't happen to fall within the target market segment for the camera.)

No matter how much you demonstrate that 4K and dual card slots are useful, or even necessary for yourself and others, it doesn't change the fact that you're essentially coming to a Rebel discussion and insulting everyone that...heaven forbid...doesn't feel like those two features are necessary. For them. Why not go to a group of actual Rebel users and tell them that their Rebels should shoot 4K and have dual card slots and that they're fools for falling for inferior cameras? I'll bet it would be the first time most had heard that a camera could have a second card slot. Seriously.

Yes, I know, it's a ~$2K camera. Show me another full-frame camera at that price that shoots 4K.
Yes, I know, Nikon is going to release one any day now, so Canon is just not forward-thinking enough.

I get it.

Still, the 6DII is an iterative-upgrade successor to the 6DI (full-frame Rebel), and on that basis, it's a pretty rockin' upgrade! It's closer to a full-frame 80D now than a full-frame Rebel...and yet...the price at launch is lower! Sounds like a winner to me.

Come to think about it, this isn't a new thing for Canon. It wasn't long ago when Canon added a top LCD and other goodies to...a Rebel (something you only used to see on the XXD series and up).

Damn you, Canon, for improving your cameras within their tier and at a lower price. Damn you, Canon!!! 

Seriously, though, the 6D (and D610) were ~$2K camera's at the time because just having a full-frame sensor commanded a premium in the market. That still doesn't change the fact that they were essentially full-frame Rebels. Crop bodies have come a long way since then, and price for the entry-level full-frame camera's have fallen. For example, Nikon's current "Sale" price for the D610 is $1,499. Canon's current price for the 6D is $1,399. Simply having a full-frame sensor is no longer enough to support a ~$2K price in the market, so Canon has upgraded the features to maintain the value proposition.

It'll be fun to see what the launch price of the D610 successor will be, what features it will include, and whether it will sell well...

Bold predictions:

1) Nikon will release a D610 successor without 4K. 
2) Nikon will release a D750 successor with 4K.
3) The price difference will be somewhere around $500-700.
4) Those who must have 4K will pay the premium and get the D750 successor.
5) Lots of people will complain...no matter how the above shakes out. 

PS: On the name calling...maybe give it a rest?

The 6DII doesn't meet your needs. You assume that you represent the target market, so Canon screwed up.
The 6DII does meet my needs. I assume that I represent the target market, so Canon hit a home run.

See the problem there? We're each biased and assume that our world is the real world.

I'll always look like a Canon apologist or fanatic to you.
As long as you keep belittling people who disagree, you'll likely come across as a Canon antagonist.

Expressing disappointment for unmet expectations and giving rationale for your position are totally fine. Lobbing derogatory labels and making blanket statements just makes it fill mean-spirited or closed-minded.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.



Don't bother me with trifles. After 20 years, at last my father's soul will have convergence. There will be video tonight!


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Reiterated, with emphasis. Video will not kill the stills star anytime soon. 

But the idea that if 'it can't do everything or speak to every need, why bother?' is a bit crude. There certainly are applications for pulling stills from video.

- A


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## geekpower (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

hundreds of emotional posts about high end video features in a thread about an entry level full frame stills camera. seems legit...


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.
> ...



*very polite golf clap*


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



So good.


----------



## BillB (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

What a problem: one camera has a tilty/flippy screen with touchscreen video autofocus. The other camera has two card slots. How will people be able to make up their minds? Why should they have to choose want they want?


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## snappy604 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

While there are not many, here's a Sony SLR with 4k video sub $3k

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324478-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_v_alpha_a7s_ii_mirrorless.html

its not that farfetched a discussion. Again it's not a show stopper for me, but it would've been nice.

and yes it's not apples to apples  Just addressing some comments about 4k, full frame and price


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## wildwalker (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Yes but there already cameras that can capture 1000 frames a second. Now I am not saying the Canon DSLR will do that anytime, but if you can grab a single dump of the sensor, in a very short time (short enough not to interrupt the recording, then you could provide stills capture. For that film feel, at 24 frames a second, you are talking about a period of around 40ms, for shooting 24 frames a second, I have to ask, how long would you set your shutter? would you use the whole 40mS, or would you go to another setting? Would there then be enough time to grab a frame, at a speed of greater than say 10mS (so 1/125 is only 8mS) and throw that in a buffer to be processed in the background?

Yes, if you want video and the ability to shoot 6fps stills, not going to happen short term. But shooting video, and capturing occasional frames, even say 1 fps up to a maximum of 3 per minute, that would be a great start.

I don't think it is as impossible as you believe. However, as you are probably better aware than i am, the marketing folks at Canon won't do it unless they believe that it will give them a competitive advantage over a directly competing product line, or unless it's something that can be directly charged (i.e. price increase over previous model).

Alan.


----------



## Khalai (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



snappy604 said:


> While there are not many, here's a Sony SLR with 4k video sub $3k
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324478-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_v_alpha_a7s_ii_mirrorless.html
> 
> ...



That's actually quite a good deal for those wanting 4K FF goodness. Problem with A7sII is its videocentricism as I guess not many people would be satisfied today with mere 12 MP images, when 20-30 MP are predominant today and with no other than again Sony and its A7rII 42 MP AA-less camera trailing (resolution-wise) those 50MP beasts from Canon. Apparently no one can have best of both worlds - yet.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Peru's on my next year list. 

I went up Monserrate yesterday because it was a holiday here in Colombia. I saw 2 canon DSLR's, 1 Nikon DSLR and a canon M. (no joke). I didn't see any other mirrorless besides me and a friend of mine. Hard to spot any DSLR's or cameras here in Bogota, but I was certainly surprised by the M. Both DSLR's were APS-C. one a lower end rebel, the other a higher end rebel.

Hardly anyone carries a visible camera here in bogota though.

when in Mexico City especially at Teotihuacan I usually spot alot of Canon DSLR's .. I'll be curious if that's changed when i go back there in a month. Mexico city in the past, I saw alot of 5 and 6D's. be curious on how that changed.

realistically 99% of all photography uses a single SD more specifically a micro SD slot on most phones or some form of nano storage. none of it is backed up immediately unless you backup via your data connection.

we have cameras with hundred's of images of buffer depth. what happens if the camera resets then?

in theory for a redundant camera, you should have a buffer of 1 with our dual card slots, or they are actually kind of useless.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials.



Hasn't that been the case for decades? You'd still need posed shots for many purposes either way.


----------



## preppyak (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?


A7s does 4k for <$2k at full-frame (with 4:2:2 HDMI out). A7RII does it while having 42mp and a better AF system at $2500.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



preppyak said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?
> ...


no it doesn't .. unless you think Atomos recorders are free.


----------



## BillB (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



preppyak said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?
> ...



If you are talking about the A7SII, I believe the price at introduction was $3000, while the initial price of the A7RII was $3300. Sure, you can get them for less now, and my advice would be to go ahead and get one if that is what floats your boat. Don't know what that says about whether it is remotely realistic to expect Canon to put 4K on a camera that will be introduced at $2000 though. Don't know what that says about whether Sony is making any money at the current prices either. So far as I know, no full frame DSLR with 4K has ever been introduced below the $3000 price point.


----------



## jmoya (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

My drone has 4k and it can fly nearly 5miles away for $999.


----------



## davidhfe (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Right because you totally can't adjust the shutter speed on a $50K weapon. :

I get that some folks here are talking these things to absurd ends, but the original video just linked was about having a single piece of gear that can pull double duty and the advantages of using a video rig for stills (e.g. a 30 second prerecord). There's a big leap between that and "nobody will need to be focused on stills anymore because we'll pull frame grabs from Hollywood motion pictures"

I've been shooting football games for a friend and I'd be pretty happy with 36mp 60fps camera that's got an included 30 second time machine.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



davidhfe said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



sure. i'd love to see you edit, select the frame, mark your keepers in between stoppages of play through 1800 frames.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



jmoya said:


> My drone has 4k and it can fly nearly 5miles away for $999.
> [/quote
> 
> That's cool. What's the sensor size?


----------



## Khalai (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



davidhfe said:


> Right because you totally can't adjust the shutter speed on a $50K weapon. :
> 
> I get that some folks here are talking these things to absurd ends, but the original video just linked was about having a single piece of gear that can pull double duty and the advantages of using a video rig for stills (e.g. a 30 second prerecord). There's a big leap between that and "nobody will need to be focused on stills anymore because we'll pull frame grabs from Hollywood motion pictures"
> 
> I've been shooting football games for a friend and I'd be pretty happy with 36mp 60fps camera that's got an included 30 second time machine.



Sure you can. But if you break 180° shutter rule, you'll inevitably introducing some stutter or jerkiness in the video footage. So you can record e.g. 8K video with 60 FPS, but if you use 1/1000s shutter speed, then smoothness of the footage goes right out the window, which can be either intentional or distracting. But you have to inevitably take this into consideration when already shooting the footage. You just can't simply have it as an afterthought.


----------



## indiehorse (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

As a current Canon 6D owner, I've been following the spec rumours out of curiosity. If I were upgrading the features that interest me the most are (in order):

1. The tilty touchscreen. That'd just be really useful for some of the photos I take.

2. The significantly better autofocus system. Sometimes I struggle a little with the one in the 6D, but having said that, it works well enough for what I need it for the vast majority of the time.

3. The various connectivity features. Depending on how they're implemented. I'm glad my 6D has wifi but it can't half be a pain.

But yeah, like I say, I've only been curious as to the specs but I have no intention of upgrading. I love my 6D and when I bought it, it was always intended as a camera that should last me several years - a decade or more maybe. I'm a hobbyist photographer without a whole lot of money to flash about.

The spec seems on point to me. A full frame camera for enthusiast. Those wanting professional features, like dual card slots, can put their professional money into buying a professional camera.


----------



## davidhfe (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> davidhfe said:
> 
> 
> > Right because you totally can't adjust the shutter speed on a $50K weapon. :
> ...



Again, my take on the video that started this is that it's having a single device that can quickly transition between the two roles, not necessarily a single device that simultaneously operates in those roles.

Operator intent has and will continue to be the paramount thing.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



jmoya said:


> My drone has 4k and it can fly nearly 5miles away for $999.



I'd love to know where you can get a drone with a full frame sensor camera that does 4k for 999.


----------



## davidhfe (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> davidhfe said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



The storage and software required to do this are not there yet. We're also taking about a $50,000 camera that makes a 1DX look like a powershot. It'll be years before 8K makes it into a reasonable form factor, and it's reasonable to expect software to evolve as well. I can quite easily imagine scrubbing through a clip to flag a frame, then advancing to the next clip.

And even if we're talking about 2-30fps with a 3 sec. prerecord that'd be pretty sweet. Though to be clear I am pretty happy with a 5D4+100-400 as well.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

THERE IS ONLY ONE CARD SLOT. DEAL WITH IT!

THERE IS NO 4K. DEAL WITH IT!

All the noise in the world is not going to change it! This is flogging a dead horse! Nobody wants to see another 400 posts on the subject! Nobody is going to change anybody else's opinion.... LET IT DROP!

Can we please discuss something else?


----------



## jmoya (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Lets discuss unicorns!


----------



## jmoya (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> jmoya said:
> 
> 
> > My drone has 4k and it can fly nearly 5miles away for $999.
> ...


----------



## Hellish (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Just bought a used 1D C for $3200 (30 day return policy though)

Only way I use the return policy is if the 6D2 has 2 cards and 4k, but I doubt it does.


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## Sporgon (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



jmoya said:


> Lets discuss unicorns!



Squirrel time


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

DPAF.

So DPAF only works in live view right? so if you are using video, or live view photo composition you get the advantages of live view.

So in normal photo mode, where you are using the viewfinder, you will be relying on the 45 AF points. So, does this mean that in live view you use a combination of contrast detection and phase difference, but in normal viewfinder mode you only get the traditional contrast detection?

Anyone have a body with DPAF, I watched a video on the M5 about it, it looks very nice, if your using the viewfinder. (well on M6 you have EVF as well, so I guess it must work through that too.

Alan.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> THERE IS ONLY ONE CARD SLOT. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> THERE IS NO 4K. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> ...



what do you think the fps will be? it's about the only unknown specification really.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > THERE IS ONLY ONE CARD SLOT. DEAL WITH IT!
> ...



5DMk4/1.6 = 5


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Sporgon said:


> jmoya said:
> 
> 
> > Lets discuss unicorns!
> ...



Nope. Unicorns. But just the ones with two horns. The ones with just one are a total ripoff. Same price as the other ones but already missing parts.


----------



## BillB (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> DPAF.
> 
> So DPAF only works in live view right? so if you are using video, or live view photo composition you get the advantages of live view.
> 
> ...




If I understand correctly, the 45 point system that operates with the mirror is phase detect AF based on dedicated AF sensors. Canon's dual pixel technology also uses phase detect AF for Live View, reading directly from the sensor. Before dual pixel technology, contrast detect was used for Live View. Some later versions were hybrid, using contrast detect and phase detect.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

What about HDR Movie. What will it support? will it be HDR and WCG? will it support PQ10? HLG? or be propitiatory? or will we see proper implementation of SMPTE 2084 and REC2020?

Alan.


----------



## Deleted member 91053 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Well the 6D2 appears to have a lot of stuff on it that I couldn't care less about - but the basic specs look promising to me.

I see some are complaining about the lack of 4K? Perhaps I am a bit weird but I buy a stills camera to shoot still so any video function is a complete irrelevance and, like WiFi etc, a waste of R&D that I may have to pay for!

Canon appear to have cured the main problem of the 6D, lack of AF points and the bump in resolution might be nice though I would have preferred less and slightly better ISO performance.

Assuming it has a reasonable FPS and the AF is fairly quick then it looks quite tempting for a general use FF camera for me. We will have to wait for the "hands on" independent reviews but so far it is looking good!


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > DPAF.
> ...



Okay, so that means focusing speed should be pretty snappy, regardless of live view.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Hellish said:


> Just bought a used 1D C for $3200 (30 day return policy though)
> 
> Only way I use the return policy is if the 6D2 has 2 cards and 4k, but I doubt it does.



They were selling them new for $3,999 a while ago at B&H.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> what do you think the fps will be? it's about the only unknown specification really.



I'm going to guess 7 fps. If not, at least 6 fps.


----------



## zim (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bereninga said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > what do you think the fps will be? it's about the only unknown specification really.
> ...



interesting you think it could actually be the same as the 5D4!

I do find it strange that this spec hasn't been CR3'd yet maybe there will be a big surprise!

fps and how to move around those 45 af points, looking forward to those answers


----------



## Hellish (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



privatebydesign said:


> Hellish said:
> 
> 
> > Just bought a used 1D C for $3200 (30 day return policy though)
> ...



Yes saw those but thats not the price anymore and the 800 saving for 16k clicks seems worth to me. Also at that time I was still hoping for the 6D2 to have 2 cards & 4k.


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



wildwalker said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



I'm hoping for 6. That would make it an upgrade all cross the board for me.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



IglooEater said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



I'm thinking 6.5fps

reason being is that I think canon will want to sit in between the D750 and D610 replacements.


----------



## Captured Emotions Media (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

All my interest for this camera was a dual card slot....sadly you didn't implement it in this new 6d ii. You lost me there (


----------



## dak723 (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> THERE IS ONLY ONE CARD SLOT. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> THERE IS NO 4K. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> ...


 
Hallelujah! I just wish you would have posted this 26 pages ago!!! ;D


----------



## JimSCal (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

It would seem that a lot of people here are disappointed that this camera is missing a lot of features that they want. However all of these features are available on the 5DM4. It would seem to me that most of the complainers are people want a 5DM4 for the price of a 6DM2. 
Just saying.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> THERE IS ONLY ONE CARD SLOT. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> THERE IS NO 4K. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> ...



Deal!

And thank you.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



IglooEater said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > jmoya said:
> ...



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

My computer monitor is lucky I wasn't drinking something when I read your post.


----------



## tmroper (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.
> 
> But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.
> 
> ...



I'm sure it'll be fully possible one day (it already is to some extent), but I don't think it'll be very useful. Someone will have to sit there after the fact and look through tens of thousands of frames, with an eye toward getting the "perfect one." But isn't that what a photographer does on a live set? Constantly looking, and picking the right frames? It'll be like having to do it all twice. Plus, after the fact, there won't be all that much ability with software to change the camera position, lighting, etc. So why not have a photographer who's good enough to get it right the first time? It'll save a lot of time and money.


----------



## Etienne (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> davidhfe said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



You are completely missing the point. If you can't imagine the utility of this, you should watch the Laforet video to understand the amazing usefulness of the 8K RAW capture with 30 second prerecord.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Etienne said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > davidhfe said:
> ...



I'm not completely missing the point. you are.

a sports photog selects the keepers in between breaks of action to send to the editors for distribution. i'm pretty sure they'll look through 1800 frames to find the right one times how many plays they captured. Thus my comment. I'm also sure a wedding photog would do the same. sit there and look through hundreds of thousands frames to find the right ones.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Captured Emotions Media said:


> All my interest for this camera was a dual card slot....sadly you didn't implement it in this new 6d ii. You lost me there (



Suuuuure.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



johnf3f said:


> the bump in resolution might be nice though I would have preferred less and slightly better ISO performance.



If you output to the same size, is there any penalty for higher resolution in terms of (I assume high) ISO? I'm genuinely intrigued - it's often stated, but I've seen conflicting statements.


----------



## Etienne (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Ok, I get it. You don't want to watch the video.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



scyrene said:


> Captured Emotions Media said:
> 
> 
> > All my interest for this camera was a dual card slot....sadly you didn't implement it in this new 6d ii. You lost me there (
> ...



Are you saying that that's a suspicious first post?


----------



## scyrene (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Captured Emotions Media said:
> ...



:-X


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Etienne said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



I don't need to watch the video for common sense on the post I was replying to, which you had to become the hero and jump in on.


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



K said:


> You replied to that with "meh" which I accept as your concession since you have no response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You jump to a self-serving conclusion without verifying your facts -- that's entirely consistent with your previous posts. Using word games in this kind of discussion only shows the weakness of your arguments, and further undermines what little credibility you have left. 

You present lists of features of the D750 as if it's novel and divine revelation. But you miss the more important truth: we can read spec sheets as well as you can, and we know what we want, and what we're willing to pay for it. The factual parts of your trollish posts are nothing we don't already know. The non-factual parts of your posts are just signs of your need for attention. Please enjoy your D750, by all accounts it's a nice body. Have fun with it, and put all the Canon shooters out of business with your high-value gear.


----------



## Etienne (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Spoken like a guy who may be allowed to carry Laforet's kit and maybe even set up his tripod for him one day.

I posted the LaForet video, and it IS worth watching but you've proven your arrogant ignorance in spades. Guys like you will be, thankfully, left behind.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Etienne said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



I highly doubt I'll be left behind. but LaForest has made many claims over the years that hasn't happened. this one may not either - simply being the logistics. 

Right. again, sorting through frames I don't care what software you use is a tiresome process. it's even MORE tiresome when you have to do it in the field. who does it in the field? ask canon why there's a rating button on their higher end cameras.

36MP is going to be so old school way before this is even a reality. in the next couple of years, canon will have a 120MP full frame camera. in the next couple of years Panasonic is trying for a m43's sensor with the equiv pixel density of 128MP and so on.

Not to mention all the technical limitations of shooting video for stills.

Carry on though .. I'll wait for real advances such as global shutters to be viable for stills.


----------



## abcd1234 (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

K, your crappy piece of shit D750 is made in thailand, that's why it's cheap.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > I posted the LaForet video, and it IS worth watching but you've proven your arrogant ignorance in spades. Guys like you will be, thankfully, left behind.
> ...



The LaForet video is a nice commercial for Red. But that's all it is.

What people who dream of grabbing stills off of video never understand is that you are shutter-speed limited. LaForet talks about shooting 60 frames a second. But, what he doesn't talk about is the shutter speed. Notice that all the examples he shows are of stationary or slow moving subjects: the guy with the beard, for example.

Even at 60 frames a second, you would be limited to 1/120th shutter speed to get smooth video (twice the frame rate). Choose the kind of shutter speed you need to stop fast action: 1/800th for example, and you will get stuttering, unusable video. 

So the choice remains: shoot action at fast shutter speeds and get crappy video, or shoot video at the proper shutter speed and get blurred action. Doesn't matter if you are shooting 1080p or 64K, the resolution isn't going to make a blurred picture sharp. 

I suppose it might have some value, but only if the subject is moving slow enough to be captured at 1/120th shutter speed (for 60 fps). No good for sports, birds or wildlife action.


----------



## drob (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



drob said:


> What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?



I hope zero. I'd much rather sharpen in post than deal with Moiré.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> The LaForet video is a nice commercial for Red. But that's all it is.
> 
> What people who dream of grabbing stills off of video never understand is that you are shutter-speed limited. LaForet talks about shooting 60 frames a second. But, what he doesn't talk about is the shutter speed. Notice that all the examples he shows are of stationary or slow moving subjects: the guy with the beard, for example.
> 
> ...



That's called logic. K doesn't do logic. 
I doubt you will get a rebuttal of your comments, merely another comment about your being a dinosaur and how 'they will sort it out somehow'


----------



## Diamir (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> THERE IS ONLY ONE CARD SLOT. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> THERE IS NO 4K. DEAL WITH IT!
> 
> ...


I've an idea: one can create a new discussion about what should/may/must/have to/ should have to be [add more] THE_New_Canon_EOS_Full_Frame. After a couple of day, we do the addition of all the features "needed" and we send that to Canon. The billon dollars camera...


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



drob said:


> What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?



About the same as your chances of hitting the Powerball.


----------



## BurningPlatform (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Orangutan said:


> drob said:
> 
> 
> > What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?
> ...



I agree completely. With this pixel count and full frame (and sharp lenses on apertures where you do not need to use diffraction or missed focus as your AA), there would be no sense in leaving AA filter out from a general purpose camera. Astro would be different, though.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a busted rumor.

we have seen no credible Asia leaks on images, specs, and whatnot and it's 7-8 days until announcement. Not even any leaks on the SL2 that is supposedly coming out side by side.

Unless Canon got REALLY good overnight, this is unusual, especially the SL2.

the only "verification" posts seem to be from each other. by now we should have seen body image snippets or even fully body pictures and at the least credible specs coming from domestic sources in Japan.

We have seen notta.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

They've had a complete redesign, having realised they should have put two card slots in there. So they've given Joe in the warehouse a box cutter and a reel of high grade silver wire to cut a hole under the card cover and solder some wires in there. 
He will also be crossing out '1080p' on the video processor and overwriting it with '4k' in true 'mine goes up to 10' fashion. They whiney assed 'I want 4K' brigade won't actually notice the difference because all they are interested in is the specs. 

So launch will be delays 9 days while all back stock is modified.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> They've had a complete redesign, having realised they should have put two card slots in there. So they've given Joe in the warehouse a box cutter and a reel of high grade silver wire to cut a hole under the card cover and solder some wires in there.
> He will also be crossing out '1080p' on the video processor and overwriting it with '4k' in true 'mine goes up to 10' fashion. They whiney assed 'I want 4K' brigade won't actually notice the difference because all they are interested in is the specs.
> 
> So launch will be delays 9 days while all back stock is modified.



K got his wish 

it may not be that bad though.. just looking back:

M6

Feb 3 - it's coming
Feb 8 - pictures
Feb 9 - full specs
Feb 14 - release

T7I

Feb 14 - release
Feb 10 - images and specs
Dec 27 - coming soon

5D Mark IV


July 27 - 30mp sensor?
Aug 8 - rough specs
Aug 9 - image / spec
Aug 16 - images / specs
Aug 24 - announce


... 

But if we don't see images or specs relatively soon (say by this weekend) it's probably not happening.


----------



## BillB (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



abcd1234 said:


> K, your crappy piece of S___ D750 is made in thailand, that's why it's cheap.



Nikon's initial price on the D750 was $2399 if I remember right. Made in Thailand or not, it was not priced cheap to start with. Wonder how much Nikon is making on this camera at the current price points.


----------



## BillB (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a busted rumor.
> 
> we have seen no credible Asia leaks on images, specs, and whatnot and it's 7-8 days until announcement. Not even any leaks on the SL2 that is supposedly coming out side by side.
> 
> ...



Rumor has the initial availability as some time in early August. So, that would give Canon 5-7 weeks to come up with actual product.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



BillB said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a busted rumor.
> ...



only gives canon 2-3 weeks to start shipping. that still doesn't change the fact that usually we have more concrete information by now.


----------



## hne (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Right. again, sorting through frames I don't care what software you use is a tiresome process. it's even MORE tiresome when you have to do it in the field. who does it in the field? ask canon why there's a rating button on their higher end cameras.
> 
> 36MP is going to be so old school way before this is even a reality. in the next couple of years, canon will have a 120MP full frame camera. in the next couple of years Panasonic is trying for a m43's sensor with the equiv pixel density of 128MP and so on.
> 
> ...



Just to clarify in painstaking detail: if you're recording video for pulling stills at a sports event, you don't have to limit yourself to shutter angles and so on. That can be cared for by the people shooting for video. Shoot 8K 60fps at 1/1000s shutter and then if you had a proper jog/shuttle wheel you could in about two seconds find the best frame out of 10s of footage. People do that all day long in video editing for placing the cuts just right in several hours long recordings. All it needs is the right input device.

Oh, and on the other hand, people doing video for sports don't really seem to care about smooth video. Probably because the general consumer doesn't give a rats ass about image quality. Just look at any broadcast of F1, football (soccer as those murricans call it), cycling, tennis, freestyle skiing and what not. Most of it is recorded with really fast shutters because it looks sharp. And insane saturation because people associate strong colour with good image quality.

The general consumer don't give a rats ass about image quality. They just wanna have that spectacular face punch on the billboard.

(posted during a work break at a broadcast sports video production house)


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



hne said:


> And insane saturation because people associate strong colour with good image quality.



For what it's worth, my wife (who is the exact opposite of a photo nerd and doesn't really understand why I lug these enormous lenses to her triathlons), had an instinctive bad reaction to a super-saturated, super-tone-mapped video background (I don't even remember which). She couldn't identify the problem until I pointed it out to her, but she vastly prefers realistic colors, or even muted ones like on Top Gear. And as I said, this was all her reaction, not me leading her to it at all.

For whatever it's worth.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



hne said:


> Just to clarify in painstaking detail: if you're recording video for pulling stills at a sports event, you don't have to limit yourself to shutter angles and so on. That can be cared for by the people shooting for video.



Just to clarify in painstaking detail, the clarion call for video in a DSLR is so that the poor lambs wanting to shoot video do not have to carry two cameras.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> hne said:
> 
> 
> > Just to clarify in painstaking detail: if you're recording video for pulling stills at a sports event, you don't have to limit yourself to shutter angles and so on. That can be cared for by the people shooting for video.
> ...



...carry two cameras, or pay a second person to shoot for whichever the first person isn't shooting. No, the promise was exactly "one camera, one person, output is exactly both great video and great stills". If it's really "you can shoot stills with a really high shutter speed", well then I don't think anyone would argue with that being a positive.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> hne said:
> 
> 
> > Just to clarify in painstaking detail: if you're recording video for pulling stills at a sports event, you don't have to limit yourself to shutter angles and so on. That can be cared for by the people shooting for video.
> ...



Just to clarify in painstaking detail.

Only an idiot would use a $50,000 video camera just to pull stills at a sports event.

The poor lambs wanting to shoot video with a single camera have two choices: blurred stills and quality video; or crap video and sharp stills. You can't have both.

Perhaps:



> ...people doing video for sports don't really seem to care about smooth video. Probably because the general consumer doesn't give a rats ass about image quality.



But, many photographers and videographers do care about image quality even if they know the average consumer won't notice.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Right on queue:

http://www.nokishita-camera.com/2017/06/eos-6d-mark-ii.html

EOS 6D Mark II
Number of pixels: 26.2 million pixels
Dual pixel CMOS AF
AF point: 45 points cross type
Continuous shooting: 6.5 fps
Maximum ISO sensitivity: 40000 (extended ISO: 102400)
Video: Full HD, 5 axis electronic image stabilization
Rear liquid crystal: 3.0 type Bali angle angle liquid crystal, touch panel
Wi-Fi · Bluetooth installed
Built-in GPS
Size: 144.0 x 110.5 x 74.8 mm
Weight: 765 g


----------



## bereninga (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Right on queue:
> 
> http://www.nokiS___a-camera.com/2017/06/eos-6d-mark-ii.html
> 
> ...



Link doesn't work. 6.5 fps, GPS and lighter than the current 6D? Whaaa!


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

CR filters it out.

here's the images:


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bereninga said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Right on queue:
> ...



Working URL here: https://goo.gl/SQz8ka

6.5 fps = giggles if true. Canon overnerfed the 5D4 fps -- a $3300 all-battlefield pro rig is only 0.5 fps quicker than a $1999 prothusiast model. No 5D4 owners will complain about _that_. :

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Still the not-5D-level mouse wheel and no AF joystick.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> Still the not-5D-level mouse wheel and no AF joystick.
> 
> - A



we were never getting that. where with the AF joystick go? look at the back. no room.


----------



## smr (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Holy ************** 

THAT DOES IT. 6.5fps? fwaaaarrk take my money already Canon, you absolute beauties you.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> bereninga said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



both have a higher FPS than the 5Dsr .. does it matter that much? the 5D Mark IV has an additional DIGIC processor for AF/AE during high speed shooting. I would say there's a difference between the two cameras.

I had thought the 6D Mark II would be around this.. simply because of the D750 and D610.


----------



## pokerz (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

5 axis electronic image stabilization?
A killer feature of Canon DSLR


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> 6.5 fps = giggles if true. Canon overnerfed the 5D4 fps -- a $3300 all-battlefield pro rig is only 0.5 fps quicker than a $1999 prothusiast model. No 5D4 owners will complain about _that_. :



None of them will mind. The lack of a second card slot means no 5DIV owner would ever even consider a 6DII. Not one. Or so 'K' assures us.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I wonder if this will have the Touch and Drag AF like the M5. That was omitted from the M6 (sadly) but I think it's an underrated feature that would be AMAZING in this since there are so many AF points now.


----------



## pokerz (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bereninga said:


> I wonder if this will have the Touch and Drag AF like the M5. That was omitted from the M6 (sadly) but I think it's an underrated feature that would be AMAZING in this since there are so many AF points now.


Drag AF with OVF? 
r u dreaming?


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bereninga said:


> I wonder if this will have the Touch and Drag AF like the M5. That was omitted from the M6 (sadly) but I think it's an underrated feature that would be AMAZING in this since there are so many AF points now.



don't count on seeing a feature from the powershot firmware group aka M5/M6's .. ever make it to the DSLR firmware group. it's like the two live on different planets.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



pokerz said:


> 5 axis electronic image stabilization?
> A killer feature of Canon DSLR



That's a feature that would have people lining up to buy one....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > 5 axis electronic image stabilization*
> ...



*For video only. With a compatible IS lens. 

I wouldn't line up for that.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Size comparison from the top view -- form factor seems very similar, but the grip look a hair chunkier. In fairness, it might just be the same grip with a little added top 'landing' for the index finger only (i.e. it may not be globally thicker into the page).

- A


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> CR filters it out.



So it does... it should be Nokish!ta camera (you get the idea)

Oh, the inner schoolboy....


----------



## pokerz (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > pokerz said:
> ...


That's one small step for dslr, one giant leap for Canon.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

AF select button up by the shutter button has been added -- I love that on my 5D3. Good add.

- A


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

I would actually prefer tilting screen over vari-angle but still looks a nice bit of kit. 

Please let it be single card and a huge success if only to annoy K ;D 



or is that being petty? :


----------



## smr (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

are those actual photos of the Camera?


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

On the 4th image down, there 
On the 4th image down, the shot overlooking the card door, on the housing is a horizontal thingy that looks like something slots in there (removable?)
Any idea what that is?




rrcphoto said:


> CR filters it out.
> 
> here's the images:


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> I would actually prefer tilting screen over vari-angle but still looks a nice bit of kit.
> 
> Please let it be single card and a huge success if only to annoy K ;D
> 
> ...



if you compare the 5D Mark IV top plate LCD versus the 6D Mark II .. it's single slot.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> On the 4th image down, there
> On the 4th image down, the shot overlooking the card door, on the housing is a horizontal thingy that looks like something slots in there (removable?)
> Any idea what that is?



Assuming you mean just over the card door, on the back view, that piece looks continuous around to the bottom of the card door. So it looks like just a seam between case pieces. 

Or maybe it's K's second card slot?


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> On the 4th image down, there
> On the 4th image down, the shot overlooking the card door, on the housing is a horizontal thingy that looks like something slots in there (removable?)
> Any idea what that is?


oh i see. that just looks like a body seam to me


----------



## unfocused (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Microphone Jack, but not seeing a headphone jack. If true, that will give the video folks something to dislike.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Microphone Jack, but not seeing a headphone jack. If true, that will give the video folks something to dislike.



hopefully a headphone jack that when in use screams this is a bloody stills camera, get a video camera


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > On the 4th image down, there
> ...



And they still didn't wrap the grippy material all the way around! Disappointing on that front -- I would have figured the camera that retires the 5D3 might use one of its best features.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Microphone Jack, but not seeing a headphone jack. If true, that will give the video folks something to dislike.



26 MP, 6.5 fps, and 45 AF points against a lack of 4K, and you think a little headphone jiggle is supposed to make me happy? Hmm?


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > On the 4th image down, there
> ...



it's between the straplug on the side of the body and the mark on the prism housing that shows the sensor plane. 

Looking at it again it looks like it could be the edge of the top LCD, but the view from above does not look like the edge of the LCD is that exposed.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Yup - its the end of the LCD. The 6D and 5DIV are similar.

http://camerasize.com/compare/#380,682

How boring.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> it's between the straplug on the side of the body and the mark on the prism housing that shows the sensor plane.
> 
> Looking at it again it looks like it could be the edge of the top LCD, but the view from above does not look like the edge of the LCD is that exposed.



Yeah, it's the edge of the top LCD.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



isn't that the top plate LCD styling near the hump of the pentaprism?


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

On another thread, Matthias shrewdly noted one last 'got it' vs. 'got nerfed' tell on something we've not seen on specs lists yet.

If the top LCD photo represents the limits of the camera, the max shutter speed is 1/4000.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Max shutter speed 1/4000, max native ISO 40,000 (1/3 stop higher than the 5DIV).


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> max native ISO 40,000 (1/3 stop higher than the 5DIV).



Cue butthurt 5D4 owners saying "It's the 6D1 > 5D3 sensor situation all over again!" in 3, 2, 1...

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> On another thread, Matthias shrewdly noted one last 'got it' vs. 'got nerfed' tell on something we've not seen on specs lists yet.
> 
> If the top LCD photo represents the limits of the camera, the max shutter speed is 1/4000.
> 
> - A


why would you say it's nerfed. it was the same on the 6D. 
The shutter and mechanical mechanisms between the 5D III and the 6D were night and day different.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > On another thread, Matthias shrewdly noted one last 'got it' vs. 'got nerfed' tell on something we've not seen on specs lists yet.
> ...



Forgive me -- the line between comically deliberate nerfing and tuning the cost/margins is sometimes blurry. But in this case, I agree that a 1/4000 vs. 1/8000 FF shutter are different animals. 1/4000 is probably what it took to keep costs manageable. 

I believe the D750 made the same decision for Nikon -- it got the upper end AF setup and 6.5 fps, but it didn't get the 1/8000 shutter.

- A


----------



## unfocused (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Microphone Jack, but not seeing a headphone jack. If true, that will give the video folks something to dislike.
> ...



Yeah, yeah. But, honestly, if you are going to add special image stabilization for video, it does seem kind of petty to nerf the camera by not providing a headphone jack (even the 80D has a headphone jack). I'm not a video person and not a 6D customer, so it doesn't matter to me, but it just seems a little strange. (And, of course, I could be wrong about the headphone jack. I just can't see it on the images.)


----------



## Point22 (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

http://www.nokis hita.com/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-images-specifications/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-images-specifications

Picture of the Canon EOS 6D markII

+ Optical image stabilization?? 5 Axis ( not only video )

Source Nokis hita


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



sigh. 

the mirrorbox assemblies were entirely different. your use of the term nerfing is insulting and argumentative.

6d:






5d Mark III:





you wouldn't expect a camera that sells for 40% less and weighs 200g's or so less to have the same mechanical structures as well would you? where do you cut costs of manufacturing, parts,etc to make a profit off the camera?


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> sigh.
> 
> the mirrorbox assemblies were entirely different. your use of the term nerfing is insulting and argumentative.



What part about "forgive me" and "I agree that a 1/4000 vs. 1/8000 FF shutter are different animals" did not read _mea culpa_ to you? 

I conceded the point -- some things are nerfed, some things absolutely cost more for a reason. The mirror box is the latter.

But everyone here recognizes I'm as insulting as a tail-wagging puppy on this forum. I just think you hate the word/usage of 'nerfing' far more than you believe I'm actually being insulting. But I could be wrong.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Thus we can assume a slower than 1/200 s Xsync as well.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > sigh.
> ...



apologies both ways. lack of sleep I'm irritable today.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Thus we can assume a slower than 1/200 s Xsync as well.



i'd imagine it's 1/180th to which the internet forums will collapse and go .. how can i live without 1/200th.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Point22 said:


> http://www.nokis hita.com/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-images-specifications/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-images-specifications
> 
> Picture of the Canon EOS 6D markII
> 
> ...



Sorry, no. There may be translation issues, but Canon's '5-axis' IS is lens-based for angular (pitch/yaw) and electronic for the other 3 axes (roll and XY shift).


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> apologies both ways. lack of sleep I'm irritable today.



Thanks. I was actually wondering if a friendly 'consider decaf' dig was in order  because the above is not like you at all. Always appreciated your writing here.

- A


----------



## Khalai (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Thus we can assume a slower than 1/200 s Xsync as well.
> ...



AFAIK original 6D do have 1/180th X-Sync right? But how can we all live w/o 1/500th X-Sync leaf shutter goodness? 8)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> But how can we all live w/o 1/500th X-Sync leaf shutter goodness? 8)



If you want 1/500 Xsync, you could go with the original 1D...


----------



## Khalai (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > But how can we all live w/o 1/500th X-Sync leaf shutter goodness? 8)
> ...



I will go with no less than 1/32000th X-Sync electronic global shutter, triple SD UHS-II slots (for RAID 5 configuration, you can never be too safe, right?), 999 AF points covering 95% of the whole frame (double X-type AF 11 of course), 24 EV DR sensor and no less than four joysticks around the body (fully programmable). Add a 999 USD price tag and I'm sold


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > sigh.
> ...



I think you're far overusing that word, and it makes me sad because until the 6D2 rumors started heating up I had you pegged as one of the more reasonable, intelligent members around here. When you call anything that isn't perfect "nerfed" though (even when you pose it as a question), you start to sound a lot more like K.

And it makes me sad, because my eyes have started involuntarily rolling when I see your avatar now instead of looking forward to what I'm about to read.


----------



## vangelismm (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



This is love. END


----------



## fentiger (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

will this thread get to a 1000 post?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> "nerfed"



Is this what you meant?


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > "nerfed"
> ...



I just spewed tea over my keyboard.


----------



## hne (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



unfocused said:


> Microphone Jack, but not seeing a headphone jack. If true, that will give the video folks something to dislike.



The rubber flaps that are supposed to cover the HDMI and USB connectors covers the area under the microphone socket. There's room for both PC and headphone sockets behind them. The 5DmkIV has PC on top and mic and headphone socket under that flap. Both cameras have remote connector on the front side.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



hne said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Microphone Jack, but not seeing a headphone jack. If true, that will give the video folks something to dislike.
> ...



except the flap that covers the mic only says mic on it.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > "nerfed"
> ...



My wife's favorite color is orange.

She would _love_ that nerfed camera.

If she wanted a camera past her phone...


----------



## BurningPlatform (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > "nerfed"
> ...



Oh no, they nerfed the mirror as well.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> I think you're far overusing that word, and it makes me sad because until the 6D2 rumors started heating up I had you pegged as one of the more reasonable, intelligent members around here. When you call anything that isn't perfect "nerfed" though (even when you pose it as a question), you start to sound a lot more like K.
> 
> And it makes me sad, because my eyes have started involuntarily rolling when I see your avatar now instead of looking forward to what I'm about to read.



Really? Wow! I honestly appreciate you sharing that. I'm not trying to throw logs in the fire at the Cult of K with this, but I just think there's come cleverness on Canon's part as to what we do / do not get. Whether we want to call that nerfing or simple omission for business reasons we can certainly debate.

But, so we're clear -- FTR, I am not...


...upset the 6D2 lacks something. I am not buying this or any other camera for a few years. My 5D3 is far more capable than I am, and I don't lack a key feature (tilty-flippy, DPAF, etc.) for what/how I like shoot.


...upset that Canon withholds a feature or two like this. It's business. (I admittedly whinge about the 5D line not having spot metering at any AF point because it's on my cell phone, far lower Nikon level SLRs, etc.)


...convinced everything the 6D2 didn't get from the 5D4 is a nefarious act from Canon. Some stuff simply costs more to put in, and that takes Canon out of its price/cost/margins place it would like to operate in. I fully get that.


I develop new products and product systems for a living in a different industry, so I appreciate how Canon has built its portfolio. I find it endlessly interesting. 

My apologies if I go to the nerfing well too often. I don't say it to wind up the forum, but it's clear that's happening regardless. I'll try to rein it in, thx for the feedback.

- A


----------



## padam (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Well, it seems that ports side looks just like the 70D.
That means no headphone jack, unlike the 80D, which is a bit odd.


----------



## Famateur (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Burst rate of 6.5 FPS and GPS is retained? That means that the only thing I lose from my 70D is 0.5 FPS. Everything else is equal or _significantly_ upgraded!

Most. Excellent.

This will be the upgrade I've been waiting for. Couldn't be happier.

Well done, Canon! 8)


----------



## Famateur (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

@ahsanford: For the record, I've always found your posts to be well-reasoned, well-informed, honest, good natured and quite diplomatic when ongoing feuds sometimes swirl around us.

Factoring in your recent response on the topic of how frequently you use the term "nerfed," my respect for you has increased even more.

Class act, my friend...


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> Burst rate of 6.5 FPS and GPS is retained? That means that the only thing I lose from my 70D is 0.5 FPS. Everything else is equal or _significantly_ upgraded!
> 
> Most. Excellent.
> 
> ...



6.5 was certainly the biggest shocker of today's new info. I don't recall a soul predicting it getting that close FPS-wise to the 5D4. That's a very pleasant surprise (unless you just bought a 5D4, I guess).

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> @ahsanford: For the record, I've always found your posts to be well-reasoned, well-informed, honest, good natured and quite diplomatic when ongoing feuds sometimes swirl around us.
> 
> Factoring in your recent response on the topic of how frequently you use the term "nerfed," my respect for you has increased even more.
> 
> Class act, my friend...



Appreciated, but the same gas I use to power my car is also a lovely accelerant. :

Weird analogy, but 'me being me' and focusing on what I want to talk about shouldn't distract folks from the topic at hand or incite a more turbulent discourse here*. Lesson learned on my part.

- A

P.S. *Unless we are talking about a modern and compact 50 prime with USM.


----------



## Deleted member 91053 (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

The 6D2 is sounding better and better! Now let's wait for user experiences - I am sure it will be great, but I want to know more before I part with my pennies!


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Famateur said:


> @ahsanford: For the record, I've always found your posts to be well-reasoned, well-informed, honest, good natured and quite diplomatic when ongoing feuds sometimes swirl around us.
> 
> Factoring in your recent response on the topic of how frequently you use the term "nerfed," my respect for you has increased even more.
> 
> Class act, my friend...



+1


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

No headphone jack.... but the camera supports Bluetooth....

If only there was a way to use headphones on something that supports Bluetooth.....

If only someone would invent Bluetooth headphones.....

It will be interesting to read the real specs when announced......


----------



## hbr (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

ahsanford,
I also have enjoyed your posts for many years and hope you continue posting. You were right in your reply that the word, "nerfed," has a very negative connotation as that is the most commonly used word used by the Canon bashers on this forum, (next to stupid, Canonfanboy and Canonapologist).

Brian


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



hbr said:


> ahsanford,
> I also have enjoyed your posts for many years and hope you continue posting. You were right in your reply that the word, "nerfed," has a very negative connotation as that is the most commonly used word used by the Canon bashers on this forum, (next to stupid, Canonfanboy and Canonapologist).
> 
> Brian



Appreciate the love (and feedback), team. 

Let's get back on topic. Any other interesting finds in the review of the Nokish.ita pics?

What specs are still unaccounted for? If 1/4000 shutter = slower flash sync speed as Neuro has suggested, the only major items I see remaining would be:


Buffer size



If you can do some 5D4 things that aren't top-line specs: DPRAW, AF selection on the touchsreen with your thumb while you are shooting through the OVF, etc.


Some surprise feature we weren't expecting (like DPRAW, silent shutter, anti-flicker were in releases' past)


Did I miss anything?

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



hbr said:


> ahsanford,
> I also have enjoyed your posts for many years and hope you continue posting. You were right in your reply that the word, "nerfed," has a very negative connotation as that is the most commonly used word used by the Canon bashers on this forum, (next to stupid, Canonfanboy and Canonapologist).
> 
> Brian



It is very hard to have a calm and rational discussion on a topic when there are some members of the forum (NOT you) who have taken extreme positions on a subject and are not only incapable of acknowledging other viewpoints and opinions, but start throwing in personal insults as well. This poisons the discussion for everyone and makes any rational examination of the issue impossible.

Personally, I have no problem with saying that (in my opinion) Canon should have included feature X and explaining my reasons, while simultaneously accepted the reasons why they did not. I am not arrogant enough to assume that without any of the reams of internal data (tech , sales, service, etc) or the knowledge of what is planned for the future, that I can make a better decision while typing away on my keyboard than the teams of people at Canon with access to all that info and who have been studying the issue for years...... but hey, this is the internet, and sure as can be, those people WILL turn up.

The trick is to not ruin this forum.... You can not reason with an unreasonable person. Arguing with them just perpetuates the agony. It is probably best to just ignore such people and go on.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I think you're far overusing that word, and it makes me sad because until the 6D2 rumors started heating up I had you pegged as one of the more reasonable, intelligent members around here. When you call anything that isn't perfect "nerfed" though (even when you pose it as a question), you start to sound a lot more like K.
> ...



There needs to be a "tip of the cap" emoticon. I really didn't want to insult you, and I'm glad you accepted it in the spirit intended (which shoots you right back up the CR power rankings).

It just seemed like you (and others) used "nerfed" for anything removed, while I think it's better reserved for blatant cases of "I don't want to sell you this, I want to bait-and-switch you up the ladder".

For example (I know everyone hates car analogies, but they're clear), is the 4Runner a nerfed Lexus GX460? I'd say no; the V8 and all the extra toys, and the Lexus dealers themselves, cost more to make and support. Toyota is very happy to sell you a 4Runner, even though they'd probably rather sell you the GX. The same goes for, oh, the Focus and Fusion.

By contrast, there are cars that are straight-up nerfed. The Nissan Versa (work with me on the numbers, it's been a few years, so I don't remember exactly), at least at one point, offered a "$7,998" model. Which it did... unless you wanted an automatic transmission and A/C. If you wanted either of those, you had to step up a package, which cost something like $11k, so while I'm sure a bunch of people here can drive stick and prefer it, most Americans would walk into the dealer, look at the $8k Versa, and immediately think about the $11k one. Similarly, I used to have a poverty-spec Civic DX. On the nicer models (LX and EX), the door bumper protectors were body color. On mine, to make it look cheaper, they painted them black. They painted the protectors black AFTER PAINTING THEM BODY COLOR - over the years, the black would wear off, and the red would shine through in places. THAT is nerfing in its most blatant, ugly form.

I'm sure that at the meetings where they decide the final specs, for the 6D series and all other bodies, Canon discusses what to put in and what to leave out of every camera - including the 5D series. I honestly think most of it is about what can be afforded for the price that the camera is targeted at. Some things are going to be about not surpassing the next step up, but I suspect that is much, much lower than the list being complained about. Most of what's talked about here looks like the 6D series is lumped in with the Rebels other than its sensor, while the 7D is lumped into the pro/ semi-pro category, so it looks more like the 5Ds in features and specs. If we all went to Canon corporate and showed them this thread, they'd probably be baffled why serious gear-heads are looking at the 6D at all, since it's intended to be a smooth step-up for people like my friends who shoot D60s with whatever 18-55 they have and get results barely better than their iPhones. They're not building the 6D for people who hang out here, even if we lust after a cheap backup FF body. It would be like me complaining to Honda about the really tall gears on that old Civic - it's not supposed to be fast, it was supposed to be frugal, and tall gears help with that. Why would you want it to be fast?

Anyway I hope that made sense, it's been quite a day at work.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



ahsanford said:


> hbr said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford,
> ...



Does it have a UHS-2 card slot? That would have a huge effect on the buffer size, possibly making it irrelevant....

And why does it have Bluetooth? Does this mean that Bluetooth microphones and headsets are now supported?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 21, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > hbr said:
> ...



The only BT accessories I'd assume work are the Canon ones and knockoffs - basically the BT remote trigger that launched with the 77D. Do they make any others? BT is comprised of a whole lot of profiles, each of which need to be supported individually. I don't see Canon writing in support for profiles their accessories don't use.


----------



## KT (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Full specs and images of the actual camera are out at Nokishita. Surprise 5-axis image stabilization but everything else is what you would expect and rumored before, including Dual Pixel AF and 26.2 mp sensor.
Now it's time to wait and see the DXOmarks score and what Sony has in store for the A7 mark III


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > And why does it have Bluetooth? Does this mean that Bluetooth microphones and headsets are now supported?
> ...


I suspect that you are right.... I was wondering/hoping that there is a generic profile for headphones and microphones.....

There is also the possibility that Canon may be developing wireless accessories.....


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



KT said:


> Full specs and images of the actual camera are out at NokiS___a. Surprise 5-axis image stabilization but everything else is what you would expect and rumored before, including Dual Pixel AF and 26.2 mp sensor.
> Now it's time to wait and see the DXOmarks score and what Sony has in store for the A7 mark III



It's *E*IBIS for video only. It's not your classic IBIS we see on seemingly everyone's bodies these days besides Nikon and Canon.

The overwhelming surprise for me was 6.5 fps burst, just a scant 0.5 fps behind a $3299 5D4. 6D2 prospective buyers should be pretty pumped at that.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



I think it's BLE, so range limited. headphones may work .. dunno.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



They might; it would seem like a waste to use BT for only remote triggers. They could certainly release new firmware to add profiles in the future, if they wanted. I would think they would only add profiles that are used for their own accessories, though. Or maybe also phones and the like for display.


----------



## hne (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



rrcphoto said:


> hne said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Also, the images from digi-came show the flaps closed and there is nothing more there. I stand corrected.


----------



## MarioHummer (Jun 24, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

Thanks for the new info on the 6D MII.

Wow. If the earlier fps rating is confirmed (6.5), this will be a great camera indeed. The pixel count is not too large so as to compromise the signal/noise in low light and hopefully the dynamic range. And, when cropping for wildlife, etc., one should still be able to get a resolution similar to the 7DMII say but with better S/N.

Plus GPS, WiFi, ... . And I see great opportunities for astrophotography as well. I'm sold on this camera.


----------



## roast_pigeon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*

My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.


For those of us who say they don't take videos much or they don't care about 4K videos much, we'd better ask ourselves whether it is the editing work needed to get a professional looking video out that is making us doing/caring about it
less, or we are truly not so interested in taking videos. I love both stills and videos. I don't do so much videos (therefore at the back of my mind I convinced myself no 4K is not a big deal. I practically lie to myself!) because of the editing work. 

I own an 80D, I am excited about 6D II. It is I think the full-frame brother of the 80D. Without 4K, I will hold on till next year to see if there will be a 90D with 4K. If no, I will then buy a 6D II (price will be much lower by then), and get a Panasonic (by then we probably will get 8K) for video. But this means I have fallen into Canon's trap: I still buy Canon. But listen, that will be my
last Canon and I believe with 6D II's specs, for just stills I won't need to buy another still camera for a long, long time. I really don't see stills-technology would be much of technology advancement focus anymore.

If yes, I will leave Canon for good. Because it would mean Canon is still backward thinking, still want to milk us dry with the same strategy. Hey, Canon, it is not like no manufacturer can match you. Time to move on!


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 24, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



roast_pigeon said:


> My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.



1) We have no idea whether 4k would have been a $500 premium. It could have been much more, or not feasible to their standards in the space and weight allowed.
2) You are insane if you think a $2500 FF camera is going to kill Canon's whole APS-C range. People would still be mostly buying Rebels for a fraction of the price with much smaller and cheaper lenses.
3) Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic are not chipping off from Canon's market share.

Glad I could clear things up for you. Do feel free to get a Panasonic for video, but you're also not going to get 8k in 2018. That's a whole different world of bitrate. But hey, keep dreaming your dream.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



roast_pigeon said:


> My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags.
> <SNIP>



Remember Nikon.... They came out with the D750 at $2500 and it was an extremely poor selling camera. Then they dropped the price to $1750 and it became a great selling camera. Price is very important. In an introductory level camera, price is probably the most important factor....

To suggest that Canon significantly bump up the price of a camera in order to include a feature that the masses are not interested in is.... well..... ummmmmm..... let's just say that you should not be applying for a job with Canon's marketing department.....


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



roast_pigeon said:


> My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.
> 
> 
> For those of us who say they don't take videos much or they don't care about 4K videos much, we'd better ask ourselves whether it is the editing work needed to get a professional looking video out that is making us doing/caring about it
> ...



If there is a different model for $2,000 that has what you want, go for it, competition is a good thing, it helps drive manufacturers to produce better products. Certainly, no one should fault you for doing that.

Canon is making a profit while others are struggling because they understand that they can produce a product that has a low cost by carefully analyzing every penny that goes into a product, and giving the customer what he is willing to accept for the lowest price possible. That is how they clawed their way past Nikon in the 1970's with the AE-1, by keeping manufacturing costs down, and the resultant price down. They have kept true to this path, by producing products that are not necessarily cutting edge, but which satisfy most of the customers and undercut the competition price wise. Those who want cutting edge can pay twice the price or more, and get what they need. If a lot do this, then higher end features will be added, but there will still be a low price entry level model that is basic. Canon is very aware that users want 4K, but also very aware that price sells cameras, and a entry level camera aimed at entry level photographers does not need cutting edge features to sell in big quantities, it needs a low price.

The cost for producing a 6D MK II is probably less than $600, maybe a lot less. This means that once they pay for the initial development, tooling, advertising, repair facility setup and spare parts, stocking thousands of stores and the like, it becomes a big profit item and prices can drop and hurt the competition even more. This is not a secret, its why they sell more ... Price and customer service. Any new features must pay their way.


----------



## BillB (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



roast_pigeon said:


> My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.
> 
> 
> For those of us who say they don't take videos much or they don't care about 4K videos much, we'd better ask ourselves whether it is the editing work needed to get a professional looking video out that is making us doing/caring about it
> ...



If you want 4k video, there is always the Canon XC-10 for $2000 or the XC-15 for $2300, each complete with a zoom lens, and they have been out for a while. There are other options as well that will provide a far better 4K capability than anything that Canon could get into a 6DII for $500. At best, a 6DII with 4K capability would be a starter camera for somebody getting into 4K, and as you point out learning how to process 4K can be a daunting prospect. I just don't see the market.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



roast_pigeon said:


> The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.



Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.


----------



## Khalai (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> roast_pigeon said:
> 
> 
> > The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.
> ...



Which I'd like to see, at least a bit. Just to wake up the sleeping beauty/dragon/whatever. Competition and racing is always good for the customer. Look at Intel for example. They had a decade of basically very incremental upgrades and amazing profits. But they slept on their laurels perhaps a bit too long and let themselves be a bit surprised with Ryzen/Epyc offerings of AMD. I know that this comparision is not very precise as camera world is much more diverse than just two brands. But still, I think you get my point.


----------



## BillB (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > roast_pigeon said:
> ...



Another piece of the puzzle is what the overall demand for full frame and crop cameras will be. It is hard to see much potential for growth, after several years of decline. Maybe a stable demand is the best to be hoped for. In any case, I don't think that Canon's rolling out the dual pixel technology over the last couple of years qualifies as resting on its laurels, especially as far as video is concerned.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > roast_pigeon said:
> ...



It's quite an apt analogy. Much better than, for example, all those who shout KODAK...NOKIA on these forums. While those two companies are examples of failure to predict/react to a paradigm shift, that's not happing in the ILC industry now. Rather, the situation is as you describe for CPU chips – incremental changes. How's Intel doing now? Did AMD 'surprise' offerings spell doom for Intel, or did Intel react? Personally, I don't follow the CPU market, but I will say it's been a long time since I've seen a computer without an 'Intel Inside' sticker on it. 

But for some reason, a small subset of people here on CR (who some may call 'trolls', and not without reason), assume that Canon will _not_ react if necessary, and thus that Canon is *******. Like 5 years ago, when Sony's/Nikon's better low ISO DR and Canon's 'horrible' fixed pattern noise (that was soooo evident when you pushed shadows >3 stops) meant Canon was *******. The thing is, as you correctly point out, the market isn't forcing Canon to react, the market is rewarding Canon for their choices. Still, how is Canon's low ISO DR now? Well, the 80D has better low ISO DR than the Nikon D5...and the Sony A9 has noise at low ISO. And Canon was and remains the market leader.


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## dak723 (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



roast_pigeon said:


> My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans.



Sorry to say, but your take is wrong, in my opinion. Digital camera technology was already quite advanced when the first affordable DSLRs came out in the early 2000s. I know folks on this forum are far more interested in tech than the average photographer, so they ooh and aaah every time the noise levels improve by a 1/3rd of a stop every few years, but for most types of photography you can tell little difference in a photo taken by a camera 2 or 3 generations older. Most advances are in taking the photo rather than in photo IQ, so there have have been advances in AF and FPS, but from one generation to the next the improvements are very small and incremental. Aside from folks on this type of forum, I would think it very unlikely that a camera owner will upgrade every generation, but rather waits at least 2 generations to upgrade. It's a mature technology now. Only the 2% or so "photophiles" need the latest and greatest. Not to say there won't be some new technology breakthrough in the future, but it hasn't happened yet.


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## Mikehit (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> roast_pigeon said:
> 
> 
> > The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.
> ...



Dagnabbit, neruo, you've gonr and fallen into that same old trap believing that sales figures have anything to do with whether the sales figures bear any relation to whether the camera delivers to the client what they need. Please learn the fact that their sales figures are only because they have trapped people into their evil web of confidence trickery, and once someone buys the Rebel with the 18-55 kit lens, selling that lens to fund a switch to NikOny is prohibitive to making the switch. They are trapped I tells ya!


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## Khalai (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.

I'm not flogging Canon for this and that, actually I'm quite happy with 6D (as a hobbyist, not a pro OFC) and some L lenses. My gripe is, when Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress goes out of the window. Still, DPAF looks very good and with combination of Vari-Angle LCD on 6D2, I'm pretty much sold on that camera. That is, unless some major design flaw occurs - I'm definitely waiting for reviews, not preordering


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



I really don't get when people say innovation and progress go out the window. Apparently you need a refresher in all the firsts Canon has had, and will continue to have. What progress are you specifically thinking in your statement?


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## Khalai (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bdunbar79 said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.
> ...



Sorry about that. English is not my native language. Let me rephrase:
_Should Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress will go out of the window._

And that basically applies to any company. And that is not, what I would want to become with Canon.


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## rrcphoto (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



I think it depends on your market and where you make money. if you are taking in money via reoccurring revenue, then yes, that's an easy trap. but if you live and die by sales of new products, you have to make new products that are worth new purchases from your existing market.


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 25, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.
> 
> I'm not flogging Canon for this and that, actually I'm quite happy with 6D (as a hobbyist, not a pro OFC) and some L lenses. My gripe is, when Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress goes out of the window. Still, DPAF looks very good and with combination of Vari-Angle LCD on 6D2, I'm pretty much sold on that camera. That is, unless some major design flaw occurs - I'm definitely waiting for reviews, not preordering



My wife worked for AMD. On the XBoxOne chip, actually, so the XB1 sitting under my TV is one provided for free to the contributors on the project.

That's just an aside. Remember that AMD was clearly in the lead before: in the Athlon vs P4 days, the Athlon was the clear choice. I built probably a dozen for my family and myself. It didn't matter - Chipzilla was able to survive and recover because of just having the crazy amount of capital to throw at problems, and AMD didn't make enough money to do anything but turn the Athlon into the equivalent of the P4: crazy fast, with psychotic power consumption and attendant heat, as Intel reconfigured to the Core architecture.

The funny thing is, originally Intel missed the reasonable-power-consumption boat, then AMD missed it, then AMD whiffed on needing a ULV chip for fanless netbooks and tablets, then Intel whiffed and wrote off billions on their SULV (phone-targeted) X86 chip last year. Which killed off Windows Phone as a remotely viable platform, sadly.

My gaming HTPC will be Ryzen and Radeon, just out of support for my wife's friends who either still work at AMD or work there again. And it's a legitimately good platform again.

So, that was offtopic.


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## Luds34 (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> roast_pigeon said:
> 
> 
> > The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.
> ...



I wouldn't sleep on Fuji or Panasonic. What you speak of sounds like complacency. Ask IBM how that worked out for them with the PC in the early 80s? Now, I neither feel Canon is being complacent nor do I see Fuji or Panasonic as any large or immediate threat. Just saying, "the other guy has a small market share" is not a very strong argument. Everyone has a small piece of the pie before they take off with a ground breaking product and conquer it. Canon wasn't always the market leader. They had a better product at the right price and took market share.


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## Luds34 (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Khalai said:


> Which I'd like to see, at least a bit. Just to wake up the sleeping beauty/dragon/whatever. Competition and racing is always good for the customer. Look at Intel for example. They had a decade of basically very incremental upgrades and amazing profits. But they slept on their laurels perhaps a bit too long and let themselves be a bit surprised with Ryzen/Epyc offerings of AMD. I know that this comparision is not very precise as camera world is much more diverse than just two brands. But still, I think you get my point.



AMD? They woke up Intel with the K8 (Athlon 64) 12 years ago. Intel responded and has been eating their lunch for the past decade. Very recently AMD may finally have something that can compete with the "big boy" in the room at a technical level but in this case I don't think David will ever conquer Goliath. So in the 40+ history of AMD/Intel, AMD has really only had their number once, and that was very short lived. 

And this is coming from a guy who still owns shares of AMD stock (somewhere).


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Luds34 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > roast_pigeon said:
> ...



You mean how their stock price went from $16.09 at the start of 1980 to $160.29 today? If that's failure, sign me up for extra.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Luds34 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > roast_pigeon said:
> ...



It wasn't his duty to have a stronger argument. roast_pigeon said Fuji, Panasonic, and Sony were chipping away at Canon's market share. John was just pointing out how incredibly wrong that is and that the opposite is actually happening.


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## pj1974 (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



LonelyBoy said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.
> ...



Thanks for the contributions to this thread... I do find there is a rather useful analogy between AMD and Intel, and camera (& lens) manufacturers. I bought Athlon when it was the better choice. Cool your wife was involved with / worked on the AMD chip project. 

Then recently I bought a Ryzen 5 because I was wanting more speed to:
1) batch-process lots of images (from my new Canon 80D and 7D, as well as time-lapses from my 350D) and
2) do more advanced editing of individual images (e.g. including panoramas) in a smoother / quicker manner.

Anyway, I'm very happy with my Ryzen. So great for multi-core multitasking too... and as more software will be programmed to take advantage of the higher core/thread count of these newer processors, it will be even more advantageous.

The speed advantage (especially with DxO) is great now! I can zip through images between 6 to 10 times faster than on my former Athlon PC! Ok, I also have faster and more RAM, faster SSD, etc... all in all, I am thrilled!

Looking forward to more technological advances, and YES for good competition to pushing companies to ensure they are delivering their best ... or well, at least decent improvements! Thank you to all the new photographic companies challenging the 'big boys' to do better.

Looking forward to seeing people take and post/share great 6DII images in the future 
#BackOnTopic lol 

Regards, 
Paul


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## BillB (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



Luds34 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > roast_pigeon said:
> ...



Hopefully there is a sweet spot between dangerous complacency and Chicken Little mode.


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## pokerz (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



goldenhusky said:


> Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and [email protected], [email protected] 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has [email protected] and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely


Canon : 1080 60P good enough for u


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## Luds34 (Jun 26, 2017)

*Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]*



bdunbar79 said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yes, fair enough. Probably wasn't the proper place to interject. Sometimes, to get through all the posts I don't always read what is being quoted, or skim over it quickly. Seeing raost_pigeon's statement, I should have stayed on the sidelines.


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