# Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3



## Wilmark (May 17, 2012)

Shouldnt Canon be somehow more responsible in this Light Leak issue - even if its not an major issue - they have made it a big enough issue by statements they have issued along with affected serial numbers. New buyers dont seem interested in purchasing any of the 1X or 2X serial models. So we early adopters have been penalized by what something Canon is totally responsible for. If you tried to resell your camera that you bought last month you may have already lost a couple of hundred dollars because of the light leak issue. Apart from setting the price of the new Mk3 out of the reach (esp when compared with the D800) they have now reduced our investment, and dont seem to care.


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## fotoworx (May 17, 2012)

The plight of the early adopter.


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## neuroanatomist (May 17, 2012)

Canon acknowledged the 'issue' (I'll stop short of calling it a bona fide problem). They offered to fix it, for free. What, you now expect them to refund part of your payment as well? New buyers _here_ probably care a lot more about 'affected' bodies - even then, a significant number of people indicated that they have no intention of send their camera in for the fix.


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## Wilmark (May 17, 2012)

I acknowledge that they offered to fix the problem if it exists. But its obvious why one does not want their 'brand new camera' fixed. And they will have to convince any buyers down the road of their reason. But its a cop out by Canon. This is a design flaw, they should have replaced every single affected camera, or given users some kind of rebate for continuing to own a 'defective product'. I have a better word that describes this: "kyosei". (Japanese for F%$# every last cent from your most loyal customers).


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## neuroanatomist (May 17, 2012)

Do you have a 5DIII? If so, are you planning to sell it next month? Most people will keep a body for a few years. By then, not many buyers will know or care about it (yes, some will, but it's unlikely to have any impact on selling the camera).


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## RunAndGun (May 17, 2012)

If you're buying a camera for it's resale value, you're buying it for the wrong reason.


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## Wilmark (May 17, 2012)

Nobody buys, except investors and punters, items for resale. But we always want to know that what we buy has reasonable value in resale. Its one of the reasons we invest in lenses more than we do in bodies. Whether it is a house or a car or other durable goods.


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## DavidRiesenberg (May 17, 2012)

Since you mentioned cars, an industry where recalls happen all the time, do you check if the used car you wish to buy was manufactured before a recall date or afterwards? Or do you simply check if the recall was done or not?


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## unfocused (May 17, 2012)

> But we always want to know that what we buy has reasonable value in resale.



I don't. At least not with most purchases. I've never bought a computer that had any resale value except as a doorstop. Never bought a television that had any resale value (usually dead by the time I replace it). My clothes certainly don't have any resale value...furniture...lawnmower...appliances. Nope. Nope. Nope.

Come to think of it, almost everything I buy has no resale value once I've gotten my use out of it.



> a car or other durable goods.



Cars? Try selling a brand new car once you've driven it off the dealers' lot. 



RunAndGun said:


> If you're buying a camera for it's resale value, you're buying it for the wrong reason.



+100


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## Jamesy (May 17, 2012)

I liken the light leak issue to the mirror fix on the 5D classic. When people sell it they ask if it was performed but it does not really impact the resale price. I was an early adopter (picked one up on Mar 22nd) and wish it did not have a '2' serial number but it does and I doubt it will be an issue five years from now. I still have my 40D which is now five and it still gets use so it stands to reason I will have my 5D3 in five years.


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## distant.star (May 17, 2012)

.
Would a letter from Fujio Mitarai saying he feels your pain make you feel better?

Corporations care about things like profit, market valuation, return on investment, etc. A reduction in your personal 5D3 "investment" is not likely to make it onto their corporate agenda.

Life is difficult. 





Wilmark said:


> Shouldnt Canon be somehow more responsible in this Light Leak issue - even if its not an major issue - they have made it a big enough issue by statements they have issued along with affected serial numbers. New buyers dont seem interested in purchasing any of the 1X or 2X serial models. So we early adopters have been penalized by what something Canon is totally responsible for. If you tried to resell your camera that you bought last month you may have already lost a couple of hundred dollars because of the light leak issue. Apart from setting the price of the new Mk3 out of the reach (esp when compared with the D800) they have now reduced our investment, and dont seem to care.


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## agierke (May 17, 2012)

several of canons camera models before the Mrk 3 have the same issue and no fix will be offered to them. those cameras still took great pictures and still perform well on the resale market. this is a huge non issue. mountains out of molehills and such...

its not an issue. relax and go take great pictures with your new camera.

jeez.....


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## krjc (May 17, 2012)

This light leak non issue is getting ridiculous! If the light issue bothers you, sell the camera and move on. I plan to use mine until I wear it out. Ok bye everybody think I will go take a few pics now.


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## dsiegel5151 (May 17, 2012)

By the time I sold my 10D it was worth $150. I gave it to a friend for free. I don't even know what my 20D is worth, but I just put it in my bag for S. Dakota next week, so I guess it doesn't matter. I could probably get about $350 for my 40D these days (it's pretty beat up), but it's still also in my bag, so I guess it doesn't really matter either. My 5Dc probably sells for under $1000 dollars now (also still in my bag). Now...add these numbers up and subtract from their value when purchased new. If you are planning on making money or limiting losses from your original purchase of a camera that you ACTUALLY PLAN ON USING, you are in the wrong business. Unless you have the money, or a new camera will make you MORE money, there is really no reason to upgrade every cycle like Canon would like you to do. 

Shoot it till it dies!

Mating skinks a few months ago with 5Dc


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## agierke (May 17, 2012)

^ love that post because of its fundamental point.

all these cameras are very capable in the hands of a CAPABLE photographer. i still use my 5Dc as a backup (though i admit some of its features drive me nuts compared to the 5D2). i can still get great shots out of it and because of that it is still in my bag as well.

i imagine once i get my 5D3, i will still keep the 5Dc as an emergency backup. as far as i know the 5Dc is getting anywhere from 500.00 to 700.00 on the used market. there is still greater value to me as in insurance camera than to sell it and pocket the cash.


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## Positron (May 17, 2012)

Even though I can understand the sentiment of wanting an item you buy to maintain its resale value well, the idea of "selling it next month" voids any such argument.

I get a literal churning feeling in my stomach every time I see someone list a "brand new in box" item that has been removed from the box for pictures. unfocused's point about driving a car off the lot hits the nail on the head. Once you've opened the box, as a seller you should expect, and as a buyer you should probably demand, that the value decreases by about 15-20% immediately. It is at that very moment and no later that the item is "used", and resale value has everything to do with rate of depreciation, and almost nothing to do with its value after being removed from the packaging. The only, *only* thing for which that is not true is real estate, which is etymologically exactly why it has "real" directly in the name.

When a 5D1 is for sale, it's extremely common to hear potential buyers ask if it's had the mirror fix done. If the answer is yes, they are happy to buy it. NOBODY says "oh, it had the mirror fix, so it was a defective unit, and therefore I won't buy it".

A more extreme example is when people post MacBook Pros for sale on Craigslist, and the post says something like "2009 MBP 15", perfect condition, just needs a new LCD and hard drive and it will be good to go. $750". It sounds like a joke to any reasonable person, which is probably why I see the same posting still up a month later.

I know this was an incredibly roundabout way to say it, but buy the camera you want for yourself, use it well, and when you're ready to sell it, consider what you get for it a bonus. You'll be a lot happier than if you consider whatever you fail to recoup a loss.


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## Richard8971 (May 17, 2012)

Cameras, cars, computers... whatever. Anytime you buy a NEW product as soon as it is released, expect product fixes, recalls and updates. The 5D2 went through changes as well... The fact that Canon is willing to fix it solves the issue. That does not make your fixed 1 series 5D3 worth less than a "current" model.

D


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## smithy (May 17, 2012)

Before I purchased the 5D Mark III, I considered purchasing a second hand 1D Mark III. These had an autofocus issue which Canon fixed early on with a mirror adjustment/replacement. In the second hand market, the question would always be asked "has the AF been fixed". The answer was usually "yes" and the potential buyers were 100% satisfied. The 5D Mark III should be no different.

The difference is that the AF problem on the 1D actually had an impact on sports photography - one of the most common uses for this body. The 'light leak' issue on the 5D requires such unique shooting circumstances that most people wouldn't encounter the issue under 99.9% of situations.


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## V8Beast (May 17, 2012)

smithy said:


> The 'light leak' issue on the 5D requires such unique shooting circumstances that most people wouldn't encounter the issue under 99.9% of situations.



Speak for yourself. I enjoy pushing the creative boundaries of lens-cap-on photography every day. You should try it sometime. Interestingly, although the metering does change on my 5D3 with the lens cap and LCD backlight on, I don't notice any visible change in image exposure with my lens-cap-on shots. Do you think it's because of the 5D3's pathetic dynamic range?


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## squarebox (May 17, 2012)

Wilmark said:


> I have a better word that describes this: "kyosei". (Japanese for F%$# every last cent from your most loyal customers).



I don't know if you have noticed this, but product in Japan is being price-gouged because of oligopolies, monopolies, and the sheer stupid amount of middle men leading to Japanese products(not just cameras) to being cheaper in the states than in Japan. Japanese companies are totally screwing people over on product prices is par for the course.


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## briansquibb (May 17, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> Speak for yourself. I enjoy pushing the creative boundaries of lens-cap-on photography every day. You should try it sometime. Interestingly, although the metering does change on my 5D3 with the lens cap and LCD backlight on, I don't notice any visible change in image exposure with my lens-cap-on shots. Do you think it's because of the 5D3's pathetic dynamic range?




;D ;D ;D


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## Hesham (May 17, 2012)

Wilmark said:


> Shouldnt Canon be somehow more responsible in this Light Leak issue - even if its not an major issue - they have made it a big enough issue by statements they have issued along with affected serial numbers. New buyers dont seem interested in purchasing any of the 1X or 2X serial models. So we early adopters have been penalized by what something Canon is totally responsible for. If you tried to resell your camera that you bought last month you may have already lost a couple of hundred dollars because of the light leak issue. Apart from setting the price of the new Mk3 out of the reach (esp when compared with the D800) they have now reduced our investment, and dont seem to care.



Strange when I posted about this a month ago when I returned my 5DM3 kit, almost everybody thought my decision is wrong since the light-leak is a non-issue. Now when the new bodies started to ship, when they realized that Canon played it the safe way knowing how "loyal" (I did not want to use an offensive word) canon users. People statrted to feel sorry they did not make the right decision.

I recieved my serial 3 5DM3 a week ago, and even though it is fixed, I am sure I will not used the LCD so often. In otherhand, when i offer it for sale, I will clearly indicate that it is NOT serial 1/2 ;D


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## Jakontil (May 17, 2012)

agreed with dsiegel5151

just keep using it if u r a photographer like what i'm doing... dont worry bout its resale value as long as i'm happy

and i dont think i will trade mine so soon either


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## Dylan777 (May 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon acknowledged the 'issue' (I'll stop short of calling it a bona fide problem). They offered to fix it, for free. What, you now expect them to refund part of your payment as well? New buyers _here_ probably care a lot more about 'affected' bodies - even then, a significant number of people indicated that they have no intention of send their camera in for the fix.





neuroanatomist said:


> Do you have a 5DIII? If so, are you planning to sell it next month? Most people will keep a body for a few years. By then, not many buyers will know or care about it (yes, some will, but it's unlikely to have any impact on selling the camera).





DavidRiesenberg said:


> Since you mentioned cars, an industry where recalls happen all the time, do you check if the used car you wish to buy was manufactured before a recall date or afterwards? Or do you simply check if the recall was done or not?





Richard8971 said:


> Cameras, cars, computers... whatever. Anytime you buy a NEW product as soon as it is released, expect product fixes, recalls and updates. The 5D2 went through changes as well... The fact that Canon is willing to fix it solves the issue. That does not make your fixed 1 series 5D3 worth less than a "current" model.
> 
> D



Totally agreed...I'm 15mins away from Canon Service Center, in Irvine CA. Did I bring my camera down for "light leak issue"?.....NO

I plan to keep my camera until CRs shows me 5D mrk 4 is on the way. By then....I would be more than happy to sell my 5D III around $2000 - $2500. Do you think people would still ask if my 5D III has "light leak issue"?


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## PhilDrinkwater (May 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Do you have a 5DIII? If so, are you planning to sell it next month? Most people will keep a body for a few years. By then, not many buyers will know or care about it (yes, some will, but it's unlikely to have any impact on selling the camera).



Totally. In 6 months no one will even remember.


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## Harv (May 17, 2012)

Good Heavens! Just go take some pictures and stop whining about something that may or may not happen some time in the future.


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## Maui5150 (May 17, 2012)

Wilmark said:


> Shouldnt Canon be somehow more responsible in this Light Leak issue - even if its not an major issue - they have made it a big enough issue by statements they have issued along with affected serial numbers. New buyers dont seem interested in purchasing any of the 1X or 2X serial models. So we early adopters have been penalized by what something Canon is totally responsible for. If you tried to resell your camera that you bought last month you may have already lost a couple of hundred dollars because of the light leak issue. Apart from setting the price of the new Mk3 out of the reach (esp when compared with the D800) they have now reduced our investment, and dont seem to care.



Its a CAMERA... Not an "Investment"

How many cars have "recalls"? Do they replace the car? Give the owners cash and a fix... They do a repair (like what Canon has offered)

Enough said. 

Worry more about being a better photographer and getting the most out of your tools than what the resale value of your camera is 300+ shutter clicks in. 

If you were really "worried" about resale value, you would NEVER buy a newly released product, because it generally will sell for less a year out


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## awinphoto (May 17, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> smithy said:
> 
> 
> > The 'light leak' issue on the 5D requires such unique shooting circumstances that most people wouldn't encounter the issue under 99.9% of situations.
> ...



Hahaha.... For me with my lens cap on photography, I like to use the light from my LCD to add a cool accent light on my subject, how about you? haha It's just a pain that that light doesn't travel far!


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## awinphoto (May 17, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> Its a CAMERA... Not an "Investment"



Yep, if you want an investment, buy a house, err.... ummm maybe not now, uhhh nevermind.


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## Jamesy (May 17, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Hahaha.... For me with my lens cap on photography, I like to use the light from my LCD to add a cool accent light on my subject, how about you? haha It's just a pain that that light doesn't travel far!


What WB setting would I use for this? The LCD is kinda amber so I am thinking tungsten might fir the bill


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## awinphoto (May 17, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Hahaha.... For me with my lens cap on photography, I like to use the light from my LCD to add a cool accent light on my subject, how about you? haha It's just a pain that that light doesn't travel far!
> ...



nope custom white balance all the way 8)


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## Wrathwilde (May 17, 2012)

Wilmark said:


> Shouldnt Canon be somehow more responsible in this Light Leak issue - even if its not an major issue - they have made it a big enough issue by statements they have issued along with affected serial numbers. New buyers dont seem interested in purchasing any of the 1X or 2X serial models. So we early adopters have been penalized by what something Canon is totally responsible for. If you tried to resell your camera that you bought last month you may have already lost a couple of hundred dollars because of the light leak issue. Apart from setting the price of the new Mk3 out of the reach (esp when compared with the D800) they have now reduced our investment, and dont seem to care.



That's absolutely right, your 5D3 isn't worth the plastic and metal that it's made of, you'll never get close to full retail for your camera... you'd be lucky to get 1/100th, but I'll make you a deal I'll give you 1/50th if you send your 5d mark III to me within the week... as long as it's still fully functional.


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## awinphoto (May 17, 2012)

Wrathwilde said:


> Wilmark said:
> 
> 
> > Shouldnt Canon be somehow more responsible in this Light Leak issue - even if its not an major issue - they have made it a big enough issue by statements they have issued along with affected serial numbers. New buyers dont seem interested in purchasing any of the 1X or 2X serial models. So we early adopters have been penalized by what something Canon is totally responsible for. If you tried to resell your camera that you bought last month you may have already lost a couple of hundred dollars because of the light leak issue. Apart from setting the price of the new Mk3 out of the reach (esp when compared with the D800) they have now reduced our investment, and dont seem to care.
> ...



That's an excellent offer given the severity of the issue.... I hope youre not planning on lens-cap-on photography or you may be very bummed. I would offer no more than 1/75 personally


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## bonedaddy.p7 (May 17, 2012)

Wilmark said:


> I acknowledge that they offered to fix the problem if it exists. But its obvious why one does not want their 'brand new camera' fixed. And they will have to convince any buyers down the road of their reason. But its a cop out by Canon. This is a design flaw, they should have replaced every single affected camera, or given users some kind of rebate for continuing to own a 'defective product'. I have a better word that describes this: "kyosei". (Japanese for F%$# every last cent from your most loyal customers).


 
seriously, get a grip. This is in no way a cop-out, do you have any idea what this fix will cost Canon? Do you have any idea what it means to be an early adopter? yes, you get to play with the newest, shiniest toys but you also have to deal with the potential design quirks that are still being ironed out and limited compatibility until other manufacturers/developers catch up and integrate. This is the same reason I don't buy a car the first year it comes out; they always have small glitches to iron out, buying one used is not too big of a deal, provided the owner took them in for all the required work. As an engineer that designs products, I can attest to the fact that no amount of testing will provide a perfect product; there will always be some odd ball situation that someone will come up with (Like shooting with the lens cap on) and complain about it. I've had a user complain that my product doesn't work if you unplug it. well, guess what? neither does your tv, toaster, microwave, etc..
If I buy a piece of electronics and they come out with a new board revision for a component inside of it, they're not going to offer you the new version if there's nothing wrong. At best, you can get yours modified. The only real way you will get a replacement is if it is a safety hazard (exploding batteries, under rated power supplies, etc)

So let's pose this question: what do YOU want Canon to do? replace your camera? refund your money? write you a check for the $200 you probably won't lose?

Guess what, it probably costs canon more money to apply this fix than you could potentially lose on resale. I think Canon has done more than enough and has earned more respect from me due to the incident. 

in summary: you're an early adopter who is unhappy that you found out what it means to be an early adopter. Great, get your camera fixed and it will be indistinguishable to a serial 3+ camera, then use it. if you're worried about resale, go get a niche camera that depreciates slower (Leica, medium format, etc...)


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## atvinyard (May 17, 2012)

I would expect your resale value to be about like the resale value of the previous 5Ds. When the Mark IV comes out, you'll probably be able to sell it for about half what the origional price was. When the Mark V comes out you can probably expect to get about a quarter of what you origionally paid for it. Seems like the resale value is cut in half with each new iteration. Its not an abrupt change, but over time, the general trend seems to be about 50% depreciation by the time the next model comes out.

No one will care about the light leak issue by that time. Not that many people seriously care about it now.


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## neuroanatomist (May 17, 2012)

atvinyard said:


> Not that many people seriously care about it now.



Dude, where have you been? It's clearly the be-all, end-all issue for many people. At least nine photographers are known to have free-climbed to the top of the Canon S Tower in Tokyo and jumped to their death after learning that they had paid good money for a camera so defective that the metering was perturbed by activating the top LCD light when the lens cap was in place. There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.


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## mitchell3417 (May 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon acknowledged the 'issue' (I'll stop short of calling it a bona fide problem). They offered to fix it, for free. What, you now expect them to refund part of your payment as well? New buyers _here_ probably care a lot more about 'affected' bodies - even then, a significant number of people indicated that they have no intention of send their camera in for the fix.



nuff said


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 17, 2012)

PhilDrinkwater said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have a 5DIII? If so, are you planning to sell it next month? Most people will keep a body for a few years. By then, not many buyers will know or care about it (yes, some will, but it's unlikely to have any impact on selling the camera).
> ...


 
Actually, I do remember it happening when the 5D MK II was new, someone discovered it. Now, few people remember, because it was a non issue.


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## V8Beast (May 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.



Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I wonder what all the Nikon guys have planned to protest the blurry viewfinders, oil-spotted sensors, scratched mirrors, green-tinted LCD screens, random lockups, and soft left-side auto focus points of their D800s?


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## unfocused (May 17, 2012)

> burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters



Well...if I were to burn myself, I'd rather do it in effigy. Hurts less.


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## briansquibb (May 17, 2012)

I found putting a hole in the black plastic on the front of the lens helped a bit. Cant work out how to screw a filter on there yet.

Low light performance seems quite poor


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## V8Beast (May 17, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> For me with my lens cap on photography, I like to use the light from my LCD to add a cool accent light on my subject, how about you? haha It's just a pain that that light doesn't travel far!



Great tip. I haven't tried that yet, but if Canon sensors weren't so miserable in the DR department, I wouldn't have to do that, as I'd have the luxury of pushing the exposure five stops in photoshop.


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## Positron (May 17, 2012)

unfocused said:


> > burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> Well...if I were to burn myself, I'd rather do it in effigy. Hurts less.



Where were you in the DxO thread? And more importantly, where's the applaud button when you need it?


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## edawg (May 17, 2012)

Taken with my light leaking "1" series 5d III which I received on Mar 22. I do lots of travel photography including night and long exposures. LCD on or off, every DSLR meter I have ever seen has underexposed in extremely low light. Anyone with experience knows you need to use the histogram if you want to create an adequate low light exposure. Obviously, the leak has not been an issue for me thus I don't plan on getting it fixed.


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## V8Beast (May 18, 2012)

edawg said:


> Taken with my light leaking "1" series 5d III which I received on Mar 22. I do lots of travel photography including night and long exposures. LCD on or off, every DSLR meter I have ever seen has underexposed in extremely low light. Anyone with experience knows you need to use the histogram if you want to create an adequate low light exposure. Obviously, the leak has not been an issue for me thus I don't plan on getting it fixed.



Great shot! What cracks me up about the whole light leak saga is that back in the film days, the light meters were so bad that no one in their right mind relied on it for long exposures at night. You'd just start by overexposing whatever reading the light meter indicated by a couple of stops, bracketed a ton of frames, and hoped that one of them turned out OK. Even then, you had things like reciprocity failure to contend with. In contrast, a light leak - even if it does exist - doesn't change the fact that you have the luxury of reviewing an image and histogram on the LCD screen almost instantaneously, and adjusting the exposure if necessary. I suppose that's too much effort in this day and age.


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## Tcapp (May 18, 2012)

I hope the resale value drops because of the "light leak". I would love to pick up a couple extra back up bodies in the future for cheap, thank you! 8)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.


 
I thought effigy was a place in France ... The same city that DXO is in


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## briansquibb (May 18, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.
> ...



Didn't the French just vote out President Nikonozy?


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## Positron (May 18, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Do I hear a hint of... _Sark_asm in your voice?

...Okay, I'll leave now. :-X


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## briansquibb (May 18, 2012)

Positron said:


> briansquibb said:
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> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
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Un tasse du the svp


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## Positron (May 18, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Positron said:
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> > briansquibb said:
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Après un sortie de la photographie, oui?


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## briansquibb (May 18, 2012)

Positron said:


> briansquibb said:
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> > Positron said:
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Oui, même si je veux un appareil photo 1DX demain pour la course automobile. Un 5DIII n'a pas assez rapide fps - donc je vais photographier avec le 1D4.

Excuser-moi pour the garçon de l'école française


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## Positron (May 19, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Positron said:
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> > briansquibb said:
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Moi aussi, l'école. Je ne veux pas de 1D X. Je n'aime pas de la course automobile.


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## Tcapp (May 19, 2012)

Positron said:


> briansquibb said:
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> > Positron said:
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no hablo!


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## Positron (May 19, 2012)

Tcapp said:


> Positron said:
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> > briansquibb said:
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この方がもっといいですか？


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