# Canon USA officially announces the Canon Cinema EOS C70



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 24, 2020)

> The First Cinema EOS Camera with an RF Mount, this New Compact and Lightweight Model Features a Super 35mm Dual Gain Output (DGO) Sensor, DIGIC DV7 Image Processor, and 16+ Stops of Total Dynamic Range
> MELVILLE, NY, September 24, 2020 – Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, is excited to announce the company’s first-ever RF mount Cinema EOS camera, the EOS C70 4K Digital Cinema Camera. When the Canon RF mount was first introduced, imaging professionals began to dream about the possibilities that this revolutionary mount system might provide them. One request that Canon consistently heard was to put an RF mount on a Cinema EOS camera so that future lens performance could capitalize on the short flange depth. Just two short years later, those wishes have come true with the new C70 camera.
> *Preorder the Canon Cinema EOS C70*...



Continue reading...


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## bgoyette (Sep 24, 2020)

Looks like a nice offering. The lens adapter is potentially a game changer. Less money than I expected. Wish it had raw./ cfexpress.


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## Chaitanya (Sep 24, 2020)

Here is Adoramas hands on preview:


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## ericjon23 (Sep 24, 2020)

better than the a7siii


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## jesusislovely (Sep 24, 2020)

God is good.


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## BroderLund (Sep 24, 2020)

Kind of an ugly duckling with a morphed look. Specs are great. Wonder how the ergonomics will be like.


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## TMHKR (Sep 24, 2020)

What's this?


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## Bob Howland (Sep 24, 2020)

Any word about the C50 "Development Announcement"?


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## Mrk177 (Sep 24, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> What's this?


So you can attach a measuring tape to get distance from the lens to your subject. Correct me if I am wrong.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 24, 2020)

Thats a cracker of a portable cinema camera.


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## MattMagd (Sep 24, 2020)

No internal RAW makes it DOA for any work I would use it for, which is unfortunate because I was hoping for a small form factor Bcam to go with my c200.


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## Mrk177 (Sep 24, 2020)

Put one on Pre-order as soon as I could. This is going to be a very exciting camera.


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## BeenThere (Sep 24, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> What's this?


Some guessing: water squirt trigger for cooling internals, Or, radar antenna for measuring target distance, Or, left hand shutter release. Any more?


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

Mrk177 said:


> So you can attach a measuring tape to get distance from the lens to your subject. Correct me if I am wrong.



That is correct. It’s inline with the sensor I think so your measurements can be exact For focus.


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

I wasn’t expecting a flippy screen, nice for run and gun I guess. The joy stick and the wheel are nice. It seems rather well thought out, even if it does look like a short and fat 1D.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 24, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Some guessing: water squirt trigger for cooling internals, Or, radar antenna for measuring target distance, Or, left hand shutter release. Any more?


I like the first one the best. Maybe it would actually be a water pistol for surprise video of your subject!

Jack


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## amorse (Sep 24, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Some guessing: water squirt trigger for cooling internals, Or, radar antenna for measuring target distance, Or, left hand shutter release. Any more?


Definitely self destruct


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## dwilz (Sep 24, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> What's this?


Something to do with the ND filter is my guess


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## dichterDichter (Sep 24, 2020)

and they added a vertical filming function... wasnt the rule: dont film vertical?


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 24, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> Any word about the C50 "Development Announcement"?


Waiting on that news too. Would complement my c200 very well.


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## Stanly (Sep 24, 2020)

The official CanonUSA introduction video has A LOT of noise, especially noticeable on 26s mark as well as after 5m20s on most of the "Shot on EOS C70" samples ... something tells me it's just a poor corporate video production artifact, but I'd rather see some good looking footage! Might purchase this one ... but first gotta loan an R5 to see if it works as a hybrid for our needs ... can't switch without a functional hybrid!

btw, 5m56s – told you!* The adapter screws into the body*  same thing will be with the PL version, it's essential for video cameras to eliminate wiggle because it's more noticeable when filming video than photo


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## Joel C (Sep 24, 2020)

OMG! gotta sell some stuff now.... !


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## padam (Sep 24, 2020)

More footage here:


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

Joel C said:


> OMG! gotta sell some stuff now.... !



This is the first camera I have ever pre ordered! Hell, I bought most used, but today is the day! Order is in!!! Also, gonna sell some stuff...


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## NJFanta (Sep 24, 2020)

I am looking forward to it's little Brother the C50!


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 24, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> What's this?


That's a nail for the cripple hammer.


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## Mike9129 (Sep 24, 2020)

looks like itd be ideal for swinging off a drone!


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## gmail (Sep 24, 2020)

No EVF, even as an option. This is a non-starter it for me.


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## sleepylamp (Sep 24, 2020)

bgoyette said:


> Looks like a nice offering. The lens adapter is potentially a game changer. Less money than I expected. Wish it had raw./ cfexpress.


Internal raw recording and full frame are what I wish for for their higher end. The speed booster is good but as a new canon shooter it’s not my intention to buy Ef lenses.


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## SHAMwow (Sep 24, 2020)

gmail said:


> No EVF, even as an option. This is a non-starter it for me.



Not meaning to come across as snarky or anything, but why would this have an EVF?


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## Jerryrigged (Sep 24, 2020)

So, can you use the basic EF / RF adapters (those used with the R-series cameras)?


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## melgross (Sep 24, 2020)

Nice. Interesting that Canon didn’t try for 8k with this considering everything that’s happened with the R5. This body seems as though it could handle it. Pricing is good, a lot of estimates were $6,000, up to $700.


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## padam (Sep 24, 2020)

SHAMwow said:


> Not meaning to come across as snarky or anything, but why would this have an EVF?


The C200 and C300 Mark III cameras have it.
It really depends on the style of shooting, I guess an LCD loupe will be available in a few months for those who prefer to shoot like that, or Canon thinks of the EOS R5 as a different alternative for video as well.


Jerryrigged said:


> So, can you use the basic EF / RF adapters (those used with the R-series cameras)?


Yes, of course. It will work with all of them.


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## shotbyspenser (Sep 24, 2020)

I really wanted this to be the camera that made me cancel my R5 order but I'm worried the R5 has better picture quality due to bitrate. How concerned should I be that the max bitrate on this camera is 410Mbps?


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

Jerryrigged said:


> So, can you use the basic EF / RF adapters (those used with the R-series cameras)?



Yes. They won’t be speed boosters of course. But according to the Canon website, yes. They’ll act the same as if they were on a c100 or c300 series, super 35 and all.


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## Tremotino (Sep 24, 2020)

What a beauty! Fucking crazy body shape. But kind of creative, like it. 

And the permament screw on adapter is also a gread idea. 

Okay will never buy a video camera as for me taking stills is difficult enough but I have such a GAS seeing this camera.


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

shotbyspenser said:


> I really wanted this to be the camera that made me cancel my R5 order but I'm worried the R5 has better picture quality due to bitrate. How concerned should I be that the max bitrate on this camera is 410Mbps?



All of the footage tests I have seen is that this is on par with the c300 MK III, and is far beyond the c200 in many ways. Definitely less noisy. It won’t do 8k like the R5, but it also won’t overheat and the files will be a lot easier to manage. More versatile. I don’t think you are going to have any problems at 410Mbps. The images look really clean, and the color as always is dead on.


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## AndyN (Sep 24, 2020)

shotbyspenser said:


> I really wanted this to be the camera that made me cancel my R5 order but I'm worried the R5 has better picture quality due to bitrate. How concerned should I be that the max bitrate on this camera is 410Mbps?


Think about it more like this, the r5 at best, with a clog2 update would only bring in 11.5-12 useable stops at best. This would likely bring in somewhere around 13-13.5 useable stops. Bit rate matters not if the camera couldn't pull in the details you need in the first place.  This will be better than the r5 by miles for video i'm sure


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

padam said:


> The C200 and C300 Mark III cameras have it.
> It really depends on the style of shooting, I guess an LCD loupe will be available in a few months for those who prefer to shoot like that, or Canon thinks of the EOS R5 as a different alternative for video as well.
> 
> Yes, of course. It will work with all of them.



The EVFs from Zaccuto are nice, and you can just plug into the HDMI port. Not a problem really.


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## shotbyspenser (Sep 24, 2020)

CanonGrunt said:


> All of the footage tests I have seen is that this is on par with the c300 MK III, and is far beyond the c200 in many ways. Definitely less noisy. It won’t do 8k like the R5, but it also won’t overheat and the files will be a lot easier to manage. More versatile. I don’t think you are going to have any problems at 410Mbps. The images look really clean, and the color as always is dead on.


I am more than fine with the 4K 120p this camera can do, especially if it doesn't overheat. I am currently using the EOS R with Ninja V for video. Video is where my passion is but I do like taking photos too and the R is more than enough for me for photography. I was on the hype train with the R5 and ordered one on announcement day but still haven't received it. With time to research and think about it I'm convinced I should just get a cinema camera instead of a hybrid mirrorless if I'm really going to pursue videography. Right now I'm considering this or the RED Komodo.


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## sanj (Sep 24, 2020)

A sincere question to all the experts here: How does this better R5 in video specs? (Except for the overheating issue). Thank you for any and all insights.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 24, 2020)

sanj said:


> A sincere question to all the experts here: How does this better R5 in video specs? (Except for the overheating issue). Thank you for any and all insights.


No 29:59 time limit! Real (mini) XLR outputs, built in ND filters, waveforms, false colors, zebras and peaking. Higher DR. 4.2.0 files that are much easier to edit. Video record to both cards in whatever format you like, mirrored, proxies etc etc.


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## HenWin (Sep 24, 2020)

If a movie camera can have 16+ stops of dynamic range, why can't a still camera? OTOH, I haven't seen much these days in the info about the R5 / R6 as to what their dynamic range is. What's with that?


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## MBMedia (Sep 24, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No 29:59 time limit! Real (mini) XLR outputs, built in ND filters, waveforms, false colors, zebras and peaking. Higher DR. 4.2.0 files that are much easier to edit. Video record to both cards in whatever format you like, mirrored, proxies etc etc.



Amen. Amen. Amen.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 24, 2020)

HenWin said:


> If a movie camera can have 16+ stops of dynamic range, why can't a still camera? OTOH, I haven't seen much these days in the info about the R5 / R6 as to what their dynamic range is. What's with that?


They do, the way they measure them is different.

Video cameras are measure on an oscilloscope and the range is detectable signal irrespective of noise to full well capacity, in stills there is always a noise floor so the bottom gets cut off. For stills It is irrelevant if there is signal below the noise floor as you can’t see it, in video it is possible to see detail below the noise floor because of the nature of looking at so many frames a second.


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

Has anyone seen anything anywhere about when it will start shipping?


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## MBMedia (Sep 24, 2020)

I believe I saw December somewhere.


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## Joules (Sep 24, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> They do, the way they measure them is different.
> 
> Video cameras are measure on an oscilloscope and the range is detectable signal irrespective of noise to full well capacity, in stills there is always a noise floor so the bottom gets cut off. For stills It is irrelevant if there is signal below the noise floor as you can’t see it, in video it is possible to see detail below the noise floor because of the nature of looking at so many frames a second.


Nonetheless, this also is a different type of sensor than what Canon has put in stills so far. DGO appears to have an actual hardware component that allows applying different gains simultaneously.

We may see an improvement in stills DR if they put it into a stills body.


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 24, 2020)

MBMedia said:


> I believe I saw December somewhere.



Just saw that DP Review is saying the C70 will be available in November, and the Adapter is slated for December. I feel like Covid really messed Canon up on scheduling. Well, everyone for that matter...


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## toodamnice (Sep 24, 2020)

HenWin said:


> If a movie camera can have 16+ stops of dynamic range, why can't a still camera? OTOH, I haven't seen much these days in the info about the R5 / R6 as to what their dynamic range is. What's with that?



There has been a large improvement in DR with the R5 sensor. Here is a graph that compares the R to the R5.


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## LDS (Sep 24, 2020)

dichterDichter said:


> and they added a vertical filming function... wasnt the rule: dont film vertical?



Yes, before mobile phones and TikTok. The new Manfrotto Gimbal (which would match this camera nicely) has " Different modes: TikTok Portrait, Selfie, Inception, Time-lapse "... that's what people expect today....


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## privatebydesign (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> Nonetheless, this also is a different type of sensor than what Canon has put in stills so far. DGO appears to have an actual hardware component that allows applying different gains simultaneously.
> 
> We may see an improvement in stills DR if they put it into a stills body.


Although Canon like to say they are different technologies the truth is the end result is very similar to the dual RAW possibilities with dual pixel for stills, though dual gain is more advanced. If more programs could deal with dual pixel double RAW images you’d see a 1 stop improvement in DR in many situations particularly if it was given a bit of refinement.


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## padam (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> Nonetheless, this also is a different type of sensor than what Canon has put in stills so far. DGO appears to have an actual hardware component that allows applying different gains simultaneously.
> 
> We may see an improvement in stills DR if they put it into a stills body.


Except that for now, it is only possible with 8.85MP as it heavily compromises sensor readout speed (it is twice as fast without DGO).
Maybe in the future they will be able to do it with 20+ MP without a horrendous amount of rolling shutter, but it will make the R5 look cheap in comparison, as you can see, even a 4K DGO sensor is not that cheap.


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## jvillain (Sep 24, 2020)

Wow, am I jealous of how easy that fits on the Crane 3 Lab. Time code, dual phantom power mini XLR, built in ND. This is a very interesting camera and props to Canon for thinking out side the box. I am not sure why they would bring over the R5 autofocus but leave out the IAF. That is just stupid. My other issue is the lack of RAW but other than that this is a very interesting Camera and I can see Canon selling a lot of these. This will put pressure on both BMD as the price of this is ~ the cost of a fully rigged BMPCC 6K. It will also put preasure on the RED Komodo.


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## Kiton (Sep 24, 2020)

Is where are the stills shooters can jump in and start bitching, like WTF, it doesn't do 80 mp medium format stills too?


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## snappy604 (Sep 24, 2020)

not in my area of interest, but eye opening to see videographers comments here. Areas I wouldn't have been aware of and re-enforces my thoughts that some people had odd expectations on the R5


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## snappy604 (Sep 24, 2020)

LDS said:


> Yes, before mobile phones and TikTok. The new Manfrotto Gimbal (which would match this camera nicely) has " Different modes: TikTok Portrait, Selfie, Inception, Time-lapse "... that's what people expect today....



yeah was amused to see portrait mode.


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## Tremotino (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> Nonetheless, this also is a different type of sensor than what Canon has put in stills so far. DGO appears to have an actual hardware component that allows applying different gains simultaneously.
> 
> We may see an improvement in stills DR if they put it into a stills body.



Yes! Exactly, that's the future. And the main reason I'm interested how this sensor compares against a normal sendor


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 24, 2020)

L


privatebydesign said:


> No 29:59 time limit! Real (mini) XLR outputs, built in ND filters, waveforms, false colors, zebras and peaking. Higher DR. 4.2.0 files that are much easier to edit. Video record to both cards in whatever format you like, mirrored, proxies etc etc.



Funny this is most of these are software limitations Including Clog 2/3. Swap out the flash sync for XLR. There’s no replacing the ease of use in built in ND filters. But this is my biggest issue with the R5/6, it’s possible with the given hardware for many of these features to be in the cameras. I’d gladly play extra. Panasonic and Sony both seem to not hold back on the features.


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## Jim Corbett (Sep 24, 2020)

Does it have the animal eye AF?


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## SteveC (Sep 24, 2020)

LDS said:


> Yes, before mobile phones and TikTok. The new Manfrotto Gimbal (which would match this camera nicely) has " Different modes: TikTok Portrait, Selfie, Inception, Time-lapse "... that's what people expect today....



Yep, all because most people are too stupid to think maybe they should turn the phone sideways to do pictures and video.

So now we see this abominable practice of new sites, etc. thinking they have to "fill in" around the stupidly recorded vertical video with dimmer versions of the same image.


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## cayenne (Sep 24, 2020)

I'd been toying with the idea of getting a Blackmagic Design Cinema 6K pocket camera.

Can some of you in the know compare and give the pros/cons between that and this EOC C70?

The BM camera can shoot RAW which I don't believe this one can, that would be a strike I'd think.

Do ya'll think RAW (internal or external) might be soon coming for the C70?


But if anyone has time off the top of their heads can you compare the BM with the Canon new offering here?

Which looks better to you and why?


Thanks in advance,

cayenne


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## BakaBokeh (Sep 24, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'd been toying with the idea of getting a Blackmagic Design Cinema 6K pocket camera.
> 
> Can some of you in the know compare and give the pros/cons between that and this EOC C70?
> 
> ...



The only thing that stopped me from getting a BMPC is the lack of autofocus. If Canon's DPAF is important to you, like it is to me, that might be the single biggest difference. In addition to that, you have the RF mount, that EF Focal Reducer, Dual mini XLR as opposed to one, Built in 10 stops of ND, Electronic stabilization & better utilization of Lens IS, Auto ISO. Ability to use BPA batteries for longer record times. Up to 4K120 whereas the BM can do 2.8K120 or 4K60.

The BMPC6K's advantage is primarily cost. You also get a free copy of Resolve Studio ($300). It can shoot in BlackMagic RAW. It's also lighter I think.


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## mariosk1gr (Sep 24, 2020)

shotbyspenser said:


> I am more than fine with the 4K 120p this camera can do, especially if it doesn't overheat. I am currently using the EOS R with Ninja V for video. Video is where my passion is but I do like taking photos too and the R is more than enough for me for photography. I was on the hype train with the R5 and ordered one on announcement day but still haven't received it. With time to research and think about it I'm convinced I should just get a cinema camera instead of a hybrid mirrorless if I'm really going to pursue videography. Right now I'm considering this or the RED Komodo.


It won't overheat! Because Canon introduced phenomenal specs on R5 with some limitations, don't assume that every Canon camera from now on is going to overheat! That never happened before and it will never happen to a cinema camera.


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## mariosk1gr (Sep 24, 2020)

sanj said:


> A sincere question to all the experts here: How does this better R5 in video specs? (Except for the overheating issue). Thank you for any and all insights.


Check CineD for example that has done a dynamic range test on C300 Mark III (same sensor on c70) and R5 and you will see by yourself.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 24, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> L
> 
> 
> Funny this is most of these are software limitations Including Clog 2/3. Swap out the flash sync for XLR. There’s no replacing the ease of use in built in ND filters. But this is my biggest issue with the R5/6, it’s possible with the given hardware for many of these features to be in the cameras. I’d gladly play extra. Panasonic and Sony both seem to not hold back on the features.


That is what Canon is offering for the money, buy it or don’t buy it, Canon don’t care. People that say ‘it’s only software’ don’t run successful corporations.

This is an entirely different thing than a stills focused FF camera, why is that so hard for people to comprehend?


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## Kyo- (Sep 24, 2020)

That adapter/speedbooster got me excited, that means if they release APSC RF mount later I can use Canon EF FF glasses.
Wait so what if I use EF glasses and use it with speedbooster on EOS R5? Will I have ”medium format" result?


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## shotbyspenser (Sep 24, 2020)

mariosk1gr said:


> It won't overheat! Because Canon introduced phenomenal specs on R5 with some limitations, don't assume that every Canon camera from now on is going to overheat! That never happened before and it will never happen to a cinema camera.


Oh no, I was not assuming that. Just pointing out the advantages of the C70 over the R5.


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## Alam (Sep 24, 2020)

The software and hardware need to be tweaked and finetuned man, not just copy paste
The code and call it a day
This will add cost and delay in launch, which kind of wasting money for still camera since it's intention is to shoot still, not video



Rocksthaman said:


> L
> 
> 
> Funny this is most of these are software limitations Including Clog 2/3. Swap out the flash sync for XLR. There’s no replacing the ease of use in built in ND filters. But this is my biggest issue with the R5/6, it’s possible with the given hardware for many of these features to be in the cameras. I’d gladly play extra. Panasonic and Sony both seem to not hold back on the features.


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## driver (Sep 25, 2020)

MattMagd said:


> No internal RAW makes it DOA for any work I would use it for, which is unfortunate because I was hoping for a small form factor Bcam to go with my c200.



Most people are not shooting Hollywood feature films, expecially not with a $5k camera


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## Bob Howland (Sep 25, 2020)

Does anybody here use a Canon RC-V100 Remote Controller with their pro camcorder or digital cine camera?


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 25, 2020)

Kyo- said:


> That adapter/speedbooster got me excited, that means if they release APSC RF mount later I can use Canon EF FF glasses.
> Wait so what if I use EF glasses and use it with speedbooster on EOS R5? Will I have ”medium format" result?



According to canon the speedbooster is only compatible with the c70.


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## Bob Howland (Sep 25, 2020)

Kyo- said:


> That adapter/speedbooster got me excited, that means if they release APSC RF mount later I can use Canon EF FF glasses.
> Wait so what if I use EF glasses and use it with speedbooster on EOS R5? Will I have ”medium format" result?


The speedbooster will shrink the image to the size of an APS-H/Super 35 sensor. With some lenses, that may not matter but you'll probably have some really severe vignetting.


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## Bob Howland (Sep 25, 2020)

driver said:


> Most people are not shooting Hollywood feature films, expecially not with a $5k camera


But I bet it'll be extremely popular in film schools.


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## Tugela (Sep 25, 2020)

ericjon23 said:


> better than the a7siii



No it is not. It performs a different function and fills a different use pattern. The C70 is still a very large camera, it is not a lot smaller than a C300. It also costs almost twice as much as a a7SIII.

The Sony product it will compete against is the FX6 most likely.


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## Tugela (Sep 25, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Yep, all because most people are too stupid to think maybe they should turn the phone sideways to do pictures and video.
> 
> So now we see this abominable practice of new sites, etc. thinking they have to "fill in" around the stupidly recorded vertical video with dimmer versions of the same image.



Landscape mode looks really stupid on TikTok and cell phones in the way they are generally used, so if you are shooting like that for those devices, please stop.


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## Chig (Sep 25, 2020)

dichterDichter said:


> and they added a vertical filming function... wasnt the rule: dont film vertical?


I was tasked with videoing (VHS) my brother in law’s wedding and automatically flipped over to vertical framing for part of it (not used to video) which looked pretty comical on the recording !


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## Chig (Sep 25, 2020)

melgross said:


> Nice. Interesting that Canon didn’t try for 8k with this considering everything that’s happened with the R5. This body seems as though it could handle it. Pricing is good, a lot of estimates were $6,000, up to $700.


8K is a gimmick, this is serious workhorse camera .
8K has no application in the real world


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## DBounce (Sep 25, 2020)

sanj said:


> A sincere question to all the experts here: How does this better R5 in video specs? (Except for the overheating issue). Thank you for any and all insights.


DGO sensor, built in NDs, anamorphic desqueeze, video centric tools, timecode input, full sized HDMI port... too much to list honestly. But if you cannot see the benefit good news... you can save about $2k by going with the R5.

Personally I had the R5 and returned it. Too limiting for my use case. This is the perfect dedicated cinema camera for me. Low key but packed with serious features. That said I’m also loving my Sony A7S3. Shooting with picture profile off and loving the image.


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## Chig (Sep 25, 2020)

Kyo- said:


> That adapter/speedbooster got me excited, that means if they release APSC RF mount later I can use Canon EF FF glasses.
> Wait so what if I use EF glasses and use it with speedbooster on EOS R5? Will I have ”medium format" result?


No because you’re cropping down to the centre of the sensor , if you adapted medium format glass with a speed booster onto FF would work I think


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## melgross (Sep 25, 2020)

Chig said:


> 8K is a gimmick, this is serious workhorse camera .
> 8K has no application in the real world


It’s definitely not a gimmick. It can be a very useful feature. And Blackmagic already has a 12k model.

you don’t do any filming, do you?


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## Chig (Sep 25, 2020)

melgross said:


> It’s definitely not a gimmick. It can be a very useful feature. And Blackmagic already has a 12k model.
> 
> you don’t do any filming, do you?


Nope , but seriously this is pretty niche , I can see an application for 4K120 in very short clips though


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## Mr.Burberry (Sep 25, 2020)

Chig said:


> 8K is a gimmick, this is serious workhorse camera .
> 8K has no application in the real world


8K is excellent choice for cropping and in-post zoom without quality loss (for lower resolution results, of course)


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## Chig (Sep 25, 2020)

Mr.Burberry said:


> 8K is excellent choice for cropping and in-post zoom without quality loss (for lower resolution results, of course)


Yes but would you film hours of footage on it ?


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## Mr.Burberry (Sep 25, 2020)

Chig said:


> Yes but would you film hours of footage on it ?


Nope. But critical shots yes.


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## David - Sydney (Sep 25, 2020)

melgross said:


> Nice. Interesting that Canon didn’t try for 8k with this considering everything that’s happened with the R5. This body seems as though it could handle it. Pricing is good, a lot of estimates were $6,000, up to $700.


Recycling the excellent DGO sensor is the most important bit in this announcement. Everything else revolves around it and it is a known quality sensor/image. Big difference between a 9mp super35 sensor and a 45mp 3:2 ratio sensor.


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## David - Sydney (Sep 25, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That is what Canon is offering for the money, buy it or don’t buy it, Canon don’t care. People that say ‘it’s only software’ don’t run successful corporations.
> 
> This is an entirely different thing than a stills focused FF camera, why is that so hard for people to comprehend?


Yes and no. Canon has been a very traditional company up to the R5 when they let their engineers fly (maybe too close to the sun if you get my drift!)  
There are big dynamics/disruptions happening in the tech world now.
We have Tesla shaking things up by offering paid SW updates to unlock performance and other features which aren't being offered by traditional car companies (yet)
We have monthly subscriptions for unlimited video/audio streaming (Netflix/Spotify etc) vs pay-per-view (or VHS/DVD timed rental)
We have SW subscription usage with updates included (Adobe LR/PS etc) vs traditional SW perpetual licences
We have Apple giving away updated operating systems for devices from phones to PCs based on selling hardware vs Microsoft paid upgrades as they have no hardware revenue
We have Amazon giving away video content for "free" bundled with Prime subscriptions
We have SW defined networks where network SW layers (proxy/firewall/WAN acceleration etc) can be installed/removed remotely on generic installed-once HW boxes and paid on a monthly subscription basis rather than discrete boxes from different vendors each requiring a manual install visit.

SW/content has a cost for sure. The "economics" for how to deliver or bundle it is a different story

I wouldn't rule out Canon doing something like paid SW features in the future but I agree that other camera companies may be first. 
Canon did add clog as a paid option on the first batch of 5Div before they bundled it (at a higher cost) for future deliveries.

Getting free firmware updates on the R5 adding extra features is pure gravy for me


----------



## slclick (Sep 25, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> That's a nail for the cripple hammer.


OK, I LOATHE Cripple Hammer comments but that was good.


----------



## jam05 (Sep 25, 2020)

MattMagd said:


> No internal RAW makes it DOA for any work I would use it for, which is unfortunate because I was hoping for a small form factor Bcam to go with my c200.


If it's strictly a "B" cam why would anyone absolutely have to have intermal RAW. With 16 stops of dynamic range and you are already using C200.


----------



## jam05 (Sep 25, 2020)

gmail said:


> No EVF, even as an option. This is a non-starter it for me.


An EVF on this camera Are you kidding me? Motion picture camera operator arives on set and request an EVF. Promptly gets replaced.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 25, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That is what Canon is offering for the money, buy it or don’t buy it, Canon don’t care. People that say ‘it’s only software’ don’t run successful corporations.
> 
> This is an entirely different thing than a stills focused FF camera, why is that so hard for people to comprehend?



Goodness. Stop living in the past. There really are no new “Dedicated” Photography cameras. I know it’s cool to rag on video guys because you don’t shoot video. 

Every major DSLR/mirrorless is a hybrid camera if it wants to sell. From here on out people are going to buy “photography” cameras and shoot video on it. It is expected so. Canon knows this and intentionally marketed it that way. 

Sensors , I/O , Heat management are the real separation points. Camera sales are going down because the line between cell phone HDR photos and mirrorless are so similar. It’s not a Canon vs Sony or any other brand, it’s the computational photography and auto HDR in an iPhone. It’s the weirdest thing seeing the photography crowd get upset by artists wanting more out of the tools when the video users make the cameras worth making as the camera companies. 

It’s art and implement is only as creative as the users vision. Freedom to test the limits of your tool is a piece of the process. The best camera is the camera you have. Why nerf it.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 25, 2020)

DBounce said:


> DGO sensor, built in NDs, anamorphic desqueeze, video centric tools, timecode input, full sized HDMI port... too much to list honestly. But if you cannot see the benefit good news... you can save about $2k by going with the R5.
> 
> Personally I had the R5 and returned it. Too limiting for my use case. This is the perfect dedicated cinema camera for me. Low key but packed with serious features. That said I’m also loving my Sony A7S3. Shooting with picture profile off and loving the image.



Really ? How is the comparison of the SOC of it and the R5 , limits withstanding? 

Take any pictures ? Thoughts on them vs R5?


----------



## NorskHest (Sep 25, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> What's this?


You use it to to hook your tape measure for measure distance for filming.


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## Kyo- (Sep 25, 2020)

CanonGrunt said:


> According to canon the speedbooster is only compatible with the c70.


But why not? If they use RF mount and accepting rF glasses then the contact would be compatible from EF to RF as well. They just need to update their firmware.


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## padam (Sep 25, 2020)

Kyo- said:


> But why not? If they use RF mount and accepting rF glasses then the contact would be compatible from EF to RF as well. They just need to update their firmware.


Just look at the CVP video I linked earlier, it will not physically fit. You can use the slightly cheaper Metabones adapter with those if you want to.


----------



## degos (Sep 25, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Yep, all because most people are too stupid to think maybe they should turn the phone sideways to do pictures and video.



If you can't expand outside some set of uncodified 'rules' then perhaps it's you who isn't thinking...

Human bodies are vertically-orientated. If you're making a video of a person doing something individually then portrait orientation makes sense.

Why do you think photographers have been using portrait orientation for 150 years...?


----------



## telemaque (Sep 25, 2020)

Another review that is interesting as you see more footage taken with C70.


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## DBounce (Sep 25, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Really ? How is the comparison of the SOC of it and the R5 , limits withstanding?
> 
> Take any pictures ? Thoughts on them vs R5?


The R5 is a fantastic stills camera. Probably the best I’ve owned. That said the images SOOC from the Sony look great. Colors are better than I remember from my A7R2. Honestly it’s a pretty dam good stills camera. The egos are far better in the Canon. I just ordered the handgrip for the Sony. I hate how my hand falls off the bottom of the camera. Video wise, I just did a quick test with picture profile off, and slapped on FilmConvert. I think the image looked good. Not quite Canon good, where colors pop with ease. But pretty good. Where the Sony shines is low light. I set it to auto ISO with a max limit of 12800. The shot without fear of mushiness. It’s a great camera for when you want a shot at night or indoors where lighting is less than ideal. I’ve never been so confident when shooting in less than ideal light as I am with the the A7S3. To me that alone is worth the price off admission. But I am very pumped for the Canon. It looks to be exactly what we’ve all been hoping for... a baby C300 Mk3... much stealthier than the original but just as capable image wise.

A7S3 first impressions:


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## MBMedia (Sep 25, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> not in my area of interest, but eye opening to see videographers comments here. Areas I wouldn't have been aware of and re-enforces my thoughts that some people had odd expectations on the R5



Amen. It's an unfortunate result of the DSLRevolution. To borrow a quote, "[they] were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." That is, force a camera designed for stills into a production environment and expect it to act like a Cinema camera.


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## LDS (Sep 25, 2020)

degos said:


> f you're making a video of a person doing something individually then portrait orientation makes sense.



Apart the silly dances on TikTok, people doing something usually interact with the environment and the relationship with it matters, making the vertical orientation usually useless, as it won't show what's happening. And when someone only talks, you don't really need to look at their feet. But in a world obsessed with self-representation while excluding everything else, yes, they have a place.


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## Kit. (Sep 25, 2020)

degos said:


> If you can't expand outside some set of uncodified 'rules' then perhaps it's you who isn't thinking...
> 
> Human bodies are vertically-orientated. If you're making a video of a person doing something individually then portrait orientation makes sense.


If they are climbing a mountain or a ladder, then yes.

If they are walking horizontally, no.

If they are just staying/sitting and talking alone, then no video is needed. A text transcript would be better.


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 25, 2020)

Kit. said:


> If they are climbing a mountain or a ladder, then yes.
> 
> If they are walking horizontally, no.
> 
> If they are just staying/sitting and talking alone, then no video is needed. A text transcript would be better.



Spoken language is different from written language, so if you're opting for writing then please don't do a transcript, but a proper write up. On the extreme end, I have no use for lines and lines of "Ehm", "What was I saying?" and "Is this mic turned on?".


----------



## JaimeAndresPhoto1 (Sep 25, 2020)

HenWin said:


> If a movie camera can have 16+ stops of dynamic range, why can't a still camera? OTOH, I haven't seen much these days in the info about the R5 / R6 as to what their dynamic range is. What's with that?


Good question on the DR, another cripple hammer hit by Canon maybe. It has to be related to the sensor, a DPreview says the R5/R6 have 12-13 stops depending on the profile used, and will have more DR once we get a firmware update that enables CLog 2 or 3, it would be awesome if it goes past 14 stops, but CLog 2 is not easy to work with. Sony claims to have 15 stops of DR on the a7Siii right out of the camera, but the DPreview video on it says it's more like 13.5 to 14.


----------



## Mrk177 (Sep 25, 2020)

Kyo- said:


> That adapter/speedbooster got me excited, that means if they release APSC RF mount later I can use Canon EF FF glasses.
> Wait so what if I use EF glasses and use it with speedbooster on EOS R5? Will I have ”medium format" result?


That speed booster adapter is only compatible with the c70. It will not work on the R/R5/R6. As it has 4 screws that mount to the lens mount.


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 25, 2020)

Mrk177 said:


> That speed booster adapter is only compatible with the c70. It will not work on the R/R5/R6. As it has 4 screws that mount to the lens mount.


Check the CVP video, the screws and arms for the screws are both optional and removable. No word on if it’s compatible with other RF cameras.


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## BeenThere (Sep 25, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Check the CVP video, the screws and arms for the screws are both optional and removable. No word on if it’s compatible with other RF cameras.


I remember seeing a news blurb on a vendor site that stated the adapter was compatible with other Canon R mirrorless cameras, but can’t find it now.


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## Sharlin (Sep 25, 2020)

melgross said:


> Nice. Interesting that Canon didn’t try for 8k with this considering everything that’s happened with the R5. This body seems as though it could handle it. Pricing is good, a lot of estimates were $6,000, up to $700.



I don't think there exists a production-ready 44Mpix Super35 format sensor on the planet right now, although such a beast might not be that far off.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 25, 2020)

JaimeAndresPhoto1 said:


> Good question on the DR, another cripple hammer hit by Canon maybe. It has to be related to the sensor, a DPreview says the R5/R6 have 12-13 stops depending on the profile used, and will have more DR once we get a firmware update that enables CLog 2 or 3, it would be awesome if it goes past 14 stops, but CLog 2 is not easy to work with. Sony claims to have 15 stops of DR on the a7Siii right out of the camera, but the DPreview video on it says it's more like 13.5 to 14.



Yep, This is about the useable DR that matters. Love that CLog 2/3 is comming. Hope this is a trend of Canon not crippling when the hardware is there. Even the S5 gives us unlimited recording 10bit in 1080 with some better exposure monitoring.


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## Kit. (Sep 25, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Spoken language is different from written language, so if you're opting for writing then please don't do a transcript, but a proper write up. On the extreme end, I have no use for lines and lines of "Ehm", "What was I saying?" and "Is this mic turned on?".


Still, it's much faster to ignore them on paper than during the video.


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## -pekr- (Sep 25, 2020)

I have a bit difficulcy understanding the upcoming Canon camera segmentation - this camera is not so big as I though it would be. And then even smaller C50 will come. And then, there are rumours about the Rc line. What would be it's purpose? Isn't it too much of a segmentation? 

Or is it more like - C50/70 being a profi Cine line, B-roll to C500/C700, whereas Rc possibly competing with the likes of the A7SIII? The thing is, that I don't consider A7SIII being a hybrid camera, due to its 12mpx, which I don't consider being good enough for stills purposes (weddings)?


----------



## paulo defender (Sep 25, 2020)

gmail said:


> No EVF, even as an option. This is a non-starter it for me.


I'm in danger of becoming that guy that keeps whining on about the lack of a viewfinder but I agree with you. In all the handheld footage I've seen, I'm spotting that classic side to side, rolling motion you tend to get when shooting with two hands from the gut, especially when turning the lens barrel. An Evf and two hands tends to solve that as it's a third point of contact as well as all the other trivial uses a viewfinder has, like being able to see what you're shooting.

So strange they left it out. Am I right in thinking this is only the second camera ,(stills and video), aside from the c200B that canon have ever made without a viewfinder ?

And I know I can buy one from zacuto but then the camera becomes as big and expensive as a c300mkii so it looses it's appeal.

Moan, grumble, moan


----------



## padam (Sep 25, 2020)

paulo defender said:


> I'm in danger of becoming that guy that keeps whining on about the lack of a viewfinder but I agree with you. In all the handheld footage I've seen, I'm spotting that classic side to side, rolling motion you tend to get when shooting with two hands from the gut, especially when turning the lens barrel. An Evf and two hands tends to solve that as it's a third point of contact as well as all the other trivial uses a viewfinder has, like being able to see what you're shooting.
> 
> So strange they left it out. Am I right in thinking this is only the second camera ,(stills and video), aside from the c200B that canon have ever made without a viewfinder ?
> 
> ...


Some C700 people were already upset about the capabilites of the C500 Mark II for a lot less money

Same thing happened again with the C300 Mark III with DGO and 4k120p agaist the C500 Mark II which is 6k FF, but much more expensive and omits these things.

And now we can't ignore the fact that the C70 costs exactly half of that, it has most of the C300 Mark III capabilites with the same sensor coupled to a newer, much more flexible lens mount.
Then there is the C200, which is currently priced exactly the same. Bigger and older techology, but it has the EVF and ergonomics to go with it.
It might get even cheaper still.
So it is not like Canon is not giving you enough choices.
It is quite amazing, how many features have started to appear in the lower categories considering the C500 Mark II was annouced just one year ago!

People should think about this before complaining.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 25, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> The thing is, that I don't consider A7SIII being a hybrid camera, due to its 12mpx, which I don't consider being good enough for stills purposes (weddings)?



Check the raw files here. It’s nothing spectacular but if you compose and don’t have to crop you can get plenty of detail at 12mp. It is very much a Hybrid. You are however entitled to your opinion as to what you consider good enough.

I just wouldn’t discount one’s ability to take some beautiful images and really get their money’s worth. I honestly think with the spec wars people forgot how good 12mp can look. It used to be the pro standard. I know some current D700 users that would be to differ. 



Raw Photos - Google Drive




These are not my files. Source is Jake Sloan’s YouTube page .


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## sanj (Sep 25, 2020)

Portrait v/s Landscape. This is all got to do with mobile phones. People, it seems, do not like to move the phone sideways.


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## stevead (Sep 25, 2020)

I’ve very disappointed and confused by Canon’s pricing strategy here. For $500 (or 10%) more, customers can buy a RED Komodo with better specs. The fact that the Komodo captures RAW and convenient ProRes interests me more than built-in ND, which is a big selling point on the C70. Not sure what to expect from a crippled C50.


----------



## melgross (Sep 25, 2020)

Chig said:


> Nope , but seriously this is pretty niche , I can see an application for 4K120 in very short clips though


When I shot Tv commercials a long time ago, with film, I would have loved a higher rez feature. How do you think Ken Burns gets those lauded, and award winning videos done? It’s by shooting bin a higher resolution, and zooming in on the shots, both still and video, while panning around. theres no other way to do it, and film makers do definitely use that feature. Additionally, shooting at 8k, even for 20 minutes allows one to bring that to 4K with greater sharpness than otherwise, which is how canons high wualityb4k mode works. It also lowers nous at 4K. So there are very good reasons for it.

in fact, for years beforec4k became a thing with TVs, filmmakers were shooting in 4K for both archival purposes, for when 4K became a consumer format, and for that same reason we will shoot 8k, and 
I’ve said above.


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## melgross (Sep 25, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I don't think there exists a production-ready 44Mpix Super35 format sensor on the planet right now, although such a beast might not be that far off.


A lot of us were expecting Canon to use the R5 sensor, or a modified form. Canon does have an 8k video sensor, remember, too.


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## padam (Sep 25, 2020)

stevead said:


> I’ve very disappointed and confused by Canon’s pricing strategy here. For $500 (or 10%) more, customers can buy a RED Komodo with better specs. The fact that the Komodo captures RAW and convenient ProRes interests me more than built-in ND, which is a big selling point on the C70. Not sure what to expect from a crippled C50.


Can you see the Komodo being used in broadcast applications? I can't.
Does it have the same user interface and input/output layout? No, it is vastly different. mini-XLR inputs? I must be joking to ask for that.
Does it keep the same uncropped sensor area when moving up to 60p or 120p? No, it crops in more and more.
What about support for lenses and adapters? It is still very much in development on the RED.

We are talking about two very different cameras here, which happen to be at the same price point.


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## Sharlin (Sep 25, 2020)

melgross said:


> A lot of us were expecting Canon to use the R5 sensor, or a modified form. Canon does have an 8k video sensor, remember, too.



Well, yeah, but this would definitely not be a $5K camera if it had a FF sensor…


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 25, 2020)

jam05 said:


> If it's strictly a "B" cam why would anyone absolutely have to have intermal RAW. With 16 stops of dynamic range and you are already using C200.


I do not see C70 as a good B cam for C200.
They are both handheld cameras that cost about the same.


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 25, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> I remember seeing a news blurb on a vendor site that stated the adapter was compatible with other Canon R mirrorless cameras, but can’t find it now.


The adapter will work as a focal reducer in any camera with an RF mount, but both the camera and lenses need a firmware update for the camera to control the lens.


----------



## paulo defender (Sep 25, 2020)

padam said:


> Some C700 people were already upset about the capabilites of the C500 Mark II for a lot less money
> 
> Same thing happened again with the C300 Mark III with DGO and 4k120p agaist the C500 Mark II which is 6k FF, but much more expensive and omits these things.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean Padam, we are indeed spoilt for choice now and it's important to remember that. But it's also important for all companies, who do read forums like this to get feedback on what consumers need and think about their products in order to adapt and tailor them to future markets. I really think the c70 looks almost perfect for my needs and that canon are doing a great job in pushing the technology, I'm one hundred percent behind them. I won't however be able to purchase or use this camera in the way that I need to for my full time work because it doesn't have a viewfinder, which I personally rely on and that's a real shame for me. I'm not complaining so much as saying that I'm gutted that the c70 is the one that got away, so close to what I want but not quite. 

And I'm English so if I don't complain there's a real danger I could become quite ill.


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## padam (Sep 25, 2020)

paulo defender said:


> I know what you mean Padam, we are indeed spoilt for choice now and it's important to remember that. But it's also important for all companies, who do read forums like this to get feedback on what consumers need and think about their products in order to adapt and tailor them to future markets. I really think the c70 looks almost perfect for my needs and that canon are doing a great job in pushing the technology, I'm one hundred percent behind them. I won't however be able to purchase or use this camera in the way that I need to for my full time work because it doesn't have a viewfinder, which I personally rely on and that's a real shame for me. I'm not complaining so much as saying that I'm gutted that the c70 is the one that got away, so close to what I want but not quite.
> 
> And I'm English so if I don't complain there's a real danger I could become quite ill.


Just look at what the competiton is doing, with the Sony FX9 and FX6 and it is the exact same trend.
Built-in electronic viewfinders on smaller, cheaper cinema cameras seem to be going away.
They are making them more modular (which means smaller, lighter, cheaper for the level of features they are able to provide)
Both Canon and Sony think of it the same way, alongside some others, where there is also no fixed EVF.

I do not think these big companies consider complaining on forums as any form of meaningful feedback.
At the minimum it should be a YT video from a member with good enough reputation.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Sep 25, 2020)

padam said:


> Just look at what the competiton is doing, with the Sony FX9 and FX6 and it is the exact same trend.
> Built-in electronic viewfinders on smaller, cheaper cinema cameras seem to be going away.
> They are making them more modular, both Canon and Sony think the same way, alongside some others where there is also no fixed EVF.


The C200 EVF was in a terrible spot.
Most people paid $1,500 for a better one.
I did not think anyone used it before I heard complaints about the C70 missing one.


----------



## HarryFilm (Sep 25, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'd been toying with the idea of getting a Blackmagic Design Cinema 6K pocket camera.
> 
> Can some of you in the know compare and give the pros/cons between that and this EOC C70?
> 
> ...



---

The video press release itself said that RAW would not be installed INITIALLY! That "INITIALLY" key word indicates a FUTURE addition via a camera BIOS update. From a technical point of view, many FULL 12-bit 4:4:4 RAW and 2:1 to 6:1 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 10-bit RAW video formats are merely a long chain of bitwise LZW-type run-length compression of a localized 2x2, 4x4, 8x8 or 16x16 grid of true pixel values so it's actually quite easy to implement (i.e. 5 pages or less of C/C++ code) The larger the 2D-XY or 3D-XYZ grid of pixels you are run-length encoding, the greater the likely LOSSLESS compression ratio you will achieve. A 6:1 lossless compression ratio over 4 to 30 frames SEEMS to be the upper limit depending upon what subject matter was shot. (i.e. how much fine detail is in the scene where fine detail is hard to run length compress)

I am suggesting that Canon will add multiple RAW formats to the C70 PROBABLY around March or April of next year 2021 to allow for testing before the 2021 Tokyo Olympics!

I suspect that Canon won't reinvent the wheel and will use modified versions of the ones on the Canon 1Dx3 DSLR slightly dumbed down. I also suspect the BEST RAW lossless compression ratio will be 4:4:4 RAW 10-bit 3:1 which is quite excellent for a video camera in the price range of the C70.

I would be more than happy to get that for outdoor B-cam Green Screen Work on a Gimbal. That is great quality for green screen composite work yet will STILL PLAY on my older MacBook Pros (3+ years old) without stuttering. That should be good enough for almost all low-to-medium budget production cinematographers (i.e. for product commercials or marketing videos). This C70 camera will make you some pretty decent profit if you KNOW how to light your green screen set properly!

For VIDEO PROS, you use a camera like the Canon C70 to MAKE MONEY, which means you need to spend enough money to ensure that your camera CAN and WILL do the job for let's say outdoor green screen work YET allows you to charge enough of a daily rate that you can pay for the camera in as little as six months to one year if you buy it outright!

For a camera like this, we would normally LEASE two to eight of them rather than buy then outright, and we would ensure our payments would be on a 24 month or 36 month term (i.e. 2 to 3 years) and charge enough of a daily rate that I would actually have them PAID for and have enough money left over for the end-of-lease buyout within 1.5 to 2 years! That type of payment schedule ENSURES you will stay solvent with a bit of EXTRA PROFIT at the end of each month. After that 2 year or 3 year lease period and final buyout at the end of the lease term, you should be making ALL GRAVY in terms of total production profit because that camera should last for at least 5 to 7 years even in hard use! I don't see 8K production for most consumers coming out until at least 2025 so a 4K video camera like this C70 makes PERFECT sense for the run-n-go camera operator or the outdoor gimbal green screen pro.

I'm pretty sure this camera WILL outsell the C200 and probably the Sony A7s3 too! It has just so much going for it right out of the box.

I do suggest a buying decent cage and a Zacuto-brand viewfinder with the soft eyecup though to round out the C70's abilities!

V

P.S. ANOTHER PLACE where this camera will shine is making 32:9 Super Widescreen Videos on higher end drones or bigger gimbals or large Steadicams. You put THREE of these C70's on that type of setup and your super-widescreen product showcase WILL BE AWESOME for Youtube and Vimeo marketing purposes!

.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Sep 25, 2020)

B & H has a bunch of RF mount cine lenses for preorder.





rf cinema lenses | B&H Photo Video


Shop B&H's in stock, large inventory for fast shipping, great service and everyday low prices on rf cinema lenses. For more info, please call 800-947-4415




www.bhphotovideo.com


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Sep 25, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> The video press release itself said that RAW would not be installed INITIALLY!


I doubt it is possible to record RAW while using DGO.
I still would probably choose RAW whenever I had the time anyway.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 25, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I doubt it is possible to record RAW while using DGO.
> I still would probably choose RAW whenever I had the time anyway.



---

This kind of depends upon the TYPE and SPEED of DSP (Digital Signal Processor) being used on the C70. As an engineer, you COULD just choose ONE mode for the sensor and capture RAW only in that mode! I think your note IS the reason WHY the C70 RAW mode software is delayed. Someone has to do the math to ensure the DSP can actually set and handle RAW on a DGO-type sensor. Again, I suspect the RAW video format microcode on the Canon 1Dx3 is BEING ported and modified as quickly as they can but I am probably right in that it won't be released until at least March/April 2021 because of the sheer amount of real-world testing that is needed to implement on a C70 so that sudden GOTCHA's don't show up for the end-user.

V


----------



## jvillain (Sep 25, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'd been toying with the idea of getting a Blackmagic Design Cinema 6K pocket camera.
> Can some of you in the know compare and give the pros/cons between that and this EOC C70?
> The BM camera can shoot RAW which I don't believe this one can, that would be a strike I'd think.
> Do ya'll think RAW (internal or external) might be soon coming for the C70?
> ...



I have the BMPCC 6K so I will take a swing at it.

The form factor for the C70 is mostly better. Because of the limitations of the BMPCC you have to do at least some rigging out in order to do any serious work. The first thing is the battery. I haven't even stopped to see how long I can shoot on the LP6N as the reviews were universally horrible so I went straight to a V mount. 

The C70 has a flippy screen. It is so small as to be near useless but DPAF may be good enough to keep you from having to get an external monitor but I suspect if you are shooting outside you will need an external monitor. Depending on what you shoot you may not need a follow focus system for the C70, most people will atleast want one for the BMPCC.

Media is going to be a cost factor. BMD is miles ahead of every one else on this. I have a couple of 1TB T5s I swap out on the BMPCC and getting the data off the cards and into the computer is ridiculously easy. 2TB of cards for the C70 will probably cost more than the C70. The file size of BRAW is crazy small compared to even CLOG so you are going to be paying more for storage on your computer with the C70.

Dual phantom power mini XLRs on the C70 probably means you can leave the external recorder at home for interviews. The BMPCC has pretty good audio options as well but only a single mini XLR. I suspect the C70 doesn't support 32bit float and neither does the BMPCC but every cinema camera going forward should. Both support time code but the SDI on the C70 is more industry standard. 

The Black Magic menus make Canons menus look like Sony's. They say the C70 has a new menu system, lets hope so but I suspect that just means they have added another green tab. The presets are awesome on the BMPCC but the physical buttons on the C70 are on a whole other level. 

The built in ND filters on the C70 are huge. Add up the cost of a full set of NDs and possible a matte box for the BMPCC and you are talking real money. 

The C70 will work much better on a gimbal. The form factor of the BMPCC is really bad for that.

Because of the RF mount the number of lenses you will be able to mount on the C70 will be considerably greater than what you can do with the BMPCC. The big one being PL mount where there are adapters for the the EF mount that the BMPCC 6K uses but they don't work with all PL mount lenses. Both cameras will use the IS in your lens if it has it. The C70 adds digital IS but I am not exactly thrilled with Canons digital IS on the R and usually turn it off. But in some cases it may mean not having to balance a gimbal or bust out the sticks.

Where the rubber meets the road is the sensor and I haven't shot on the C300 so I can't really compare but the difference in the sensor of the EOS R ( 5DIV sensor) vs the BMPCC was jaw dropping. If you deliver 2K the C70 will give you some extra room to straighten the horizon, crop etc. If you deliver in 4K then you will really miss the extra room you get from shooting 6K. It is hard to say what the situation will be with high frame rates on the C70.

So at the end of the day once you rig out the BMPCC you are getting pretty close to the price of the C70 if you don't need to rig the C70. I am guessing Smallrig and Tilta are going to make good money off people caging and rigging the C70s just not as much as they made with the BMPCC. The form factor of the C70 will be a lot less conspicuous than a fully rigged BMPCC so will draw a lot less attention from the camera cops. Do you need RAW and do you need a sensor greater than 4K? What are you shooting? If it is one man crew talking head or run and gun C70 is the likely answer. If you are shooting long form dramas the BMPCC. 

If the C70 had been on the official Canon road map (snort) I probably wouldn't have jumped to Black Magic even though I am still harbouring a powerful hate for all the times Canon has F'd me over over the last few years. But now that I have moved over to Black Magic I am probably never coming back.

As for the Komodo yes you can buy it for a bit more than the C70. But you still need to rig out the Komodo and that will push it into another price bracket.


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## jvillain (Sep 25, 2020)

Tugela said:


> Landscape mode looks really stupid on TikTok and cell phones in the way they are generally used, so if you are shooting like that for those devices, please stop.



Yes by all means we should change the way humans work to match the technology rather than changing the technology to match the way humans work. Perhaps we can surgically move peoples eyes so they above and below each other. You field of view is ~2.35:1 so why would you want to view content 1:2? Your aware that you can turn a cell phone side ways right? And if all you are doing is watching content on your cell phone who even cares about picture quality because your never going to see it.


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## cayenne (Sep 25, 2020)

jvillain said:


> I have the BMPCC 6K so I will take a swing at it.
> 
> The form factor for the C70 is mostly better. Because of the limitations of the BMPCC you have to do at least some rigging out in order to do any serious work. The first thing is the battery. I haven't even stopped to see how long I can shoot on the LP6N as the reviews were universally horrible so I went straight to a V mount.
> 
> ...



Thank you VERY much, this was exactly the type of response I was looking. for!!

Thank you, I have a lot of info to chew on....

I really DO want to shoot RAW, so, if nothing else, I'd have to take it on faith that the Canon C70 at some point in the future will get a firmware upgrade to shoot some form of RAW.

I wonder how long that will take...AND...is it something I want to bet serious $$$ on...or wait to buy to see what Canon says/does about RAW on this after hardware hits the public streets?

C

cayenne


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## Tugela (Sep 25, 2020)

jvillain said:


> Yes by all means we should change the way humans work to match the technology rather than changing the technology to match the way humans work. Perhaps we can surgically move peoples eyes so they above and below each other. You field of view is ~2.35:1 so why would you want to view content 1:2? Your aware that you can turn a cell phone side ways right? And if all you are doing is watching content on your cell phone who even cares about picture quality because your never going to see it.



People don't look at their cell phones sideways. If you are shooting content for cell phones, shoot it vertically.


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## bgoyette (Sep 25, 2020)

sleepylamp said:


> Internal raw recording and full frame are what I wish for for their higher end. The speed booster is good but as a new canon shooter it’s not my intention to buy Ef lenses.


Yeah...but. For folks with cinema primes (me) ...or wanting a "full frame" look, and no crop from their EF glass (also me) it's a big deal. As for Raw...it's a "sort of high end" feature. Raw actually is a lot easier to process than a compressed codec, and the c200 has been sitting out there with internal RAW at the bottom of Canons cinema line for the past few years. As a C500II owner, I pretty much only shoot raw, so I'd be very interested in a version of this with cfexpress and CRL.. I really don't like the look of the compressed codecs.


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## xanbarksdale (Sep 26, 2020)

Has the ship date been posted anywhere? (sorry, I just skimmed through the 7 pages of comments)

I see that B&H says it will begin shipping in December, but I haven't found an exact date. I've got a project in Dec. that I'd LOVE to have this for!


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## jvillain (Sep 26, 2020)

Tugela said:


> People don't look at their cell phones sideways. If you are shooting content for cell phones, shoot it vertically.


You have to be at the national or international level before customers are going to pay for a separate cell phone shoot. If they want both formats in one shoot then you need to shoot the subject in a square box in the middle so it can be cropped both ways. That is dumbing down the art to the lowest common denominator. After you have done that you then have to down res the image to squeeze the cell phone crop into a few kilobytes so people don't blow out their data plans on their cell phones. So you don't need the extra resolution for the 1:2 crop becuase no one will ever be able to see the quality on a miniture little screen where they have turned the contrast turned up to 11 and the saturation maxed to make the phone look less like the garbage it is. 

Where you need the extra resolution is on the large screens not the postage stamp screen. If you really cared about the resolution on the cell phone (and no customer does) this isn't the right camera for that. The BMPCC 6K, R5 or C5000III would all be better answers than this camera. But the real answer is the Ursa 12K @ 12,288 x 6480 as it gives you more than enough resolution to crop in both directions. The 12K would pay for the price difference in one shoot if you start counting the extra time spent doing a seperate shoot specifically for cell phones.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Goodness. Stop living in the past. There really are no new “Dedicated” Photography cameras. I know it’s cool to rag on video guys because you don’t shoot video.
> 
> Every major DSLR/mirrorless is a hybrid camera if it wants to sell. From here on out people are going to buy “photography” cameras and shoot video on it. It is expected so. Canon knows this and intentionally marketed it that way.
> 
> ...


Your reply bears no relation to my original comment and you are projecting meanings and feelings into it I didn't express and don't have.

I never argued for a 'dedicated' stills camera, heck even the 5DS does video, what I said was railing against a stills orientated camera, one that the design brief was to prioritize stills performance over video performance (not drop it completely), because it lacks video features you might want or feel it should have is kinda dumb. 

The compromises were made intentionally to create the tool that it is, there are other tools with different compromises better suited to other users. All cameras shouldn't be interesting to all users, if they were then the compromises forced on users with envelope pushing needs is compromised. Look at medium format digital, pretty basic video, modest AF, but stills image quality to die for. By your logic all medium format cameras should prioritize video features in future iterations and compromise stills image quality because, well, that's where your reasoning falls down...

Yes way more people, both amateur users and pros with clients are using video in their stills orientated cameras (R5 vs C70 for example), but that doesn't mean the niche that prioritizes stills over video to a greater extent shouldn't get the cameras they want and need for their 'artistic vision'. And pointing out that this or that model is stills or video orientated shouldn't be an excuse to say somebody is "living in the past", maybe they are just living in a world where their stills output demands higher image quality than yours.


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## melgross (Sep 27, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Well, yeah, but this would definitely not be a $5K camera if it had a FF sensor…


Well, this is $5,500. A FF might raise that to $6,000 to $6,500.


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## cayenne (Sep 28, 2020)

So, if you put a RF 50mm lens on a C70, with the smaller sensor, what will be the FF equivalent of the lens on the C70?

Is there a multiplication factor?


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## telemaque (Sep 29, 2020)

Our German neighbors seem to be the first to show some footage from the Canon C70.

It looks good, the skintone of the HLG profile not my favorite but the rest is very nice.


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## kulture (Oct 15, 2020)

Couldn't Raw be added, like the 5d Mark IV?


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## xanbarksdale (Nov 6, 2020)

There's one piece of information that I haven't been able to find and am hoping that someone here knows...

Does the C70 play back 4k 120fps files at 30p or does it maintain all 120fps. It would be REALLY nice if Canon didn't automatically save the file as 30fps!


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