# Will the Canon EOS R5s come with a pixel shift like feature? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 2, 2020)

> I have received very few tidbits about the coming high-megapixel RF mount camera coming from Canon, but that has started to change over the last couple of weeks.
> Anything in the quotes below is directly from what I have been told. The information sent did require a bit of reading between the lines, and I’ve done my best to be accurate.
> I have been told the following about the coming Canon EOS R5s (Unofficial name):
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## slclick (Dec 2, 2020)

This might be the death knell for my 5D3.


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## marathonman (Dec 2, 2020)

This might be the death knell for my 5D4.


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## Deleted member 68328 (Dec 2, 2020)

Hi,
Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a 5D Mark V? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that NikonRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the D850?

Thanks


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## Mark3794 (Dec 2, 2020)

Looks like a full frame version of the 32 mp APS-C sensor. Lineskipped 4k30p will be more than enough for a camera like this, the pixel shift and the new ibis look promising


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## marathonman (Dec 2, 2020)

Pixel shift. 64GB cards are *******!


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 2, 2020)

yoms said:


> Hi,
> Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a 5D Mark V? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that NikonRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the D850?
> 
> Thanks



We are never getting another 5D DSLR, it would be an economic misstep if Canon made such a camera. Move to RF.


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## ethanz (Dec 2, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> We are never getting another 5D DSLR, it would be an economic misstep if Canon made such a camera. Move to RF.



Maybe that is one reason why Nikon is doing so poorly financially.


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## marathonman (Dec 2, 2020)

Hi,
Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a Direct Print button? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that PrintingRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the Direct Print button on the Kodak PixPro AZ252?

Thanks


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## Osama (Dec 2, 2020)

My EOS XSI is *******!


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## Joules (Dec 2, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Hi,
> Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a Direct Print button? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that PrintingRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the Direct Print button on the Kodak PixPro AZ252?
> 
> Thanks


Is there an echo in this thread?


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## RobbieHat (Dec 2, 2020)

Will be interesting to see how this one shapes up. I am not as concerned about the IBIS and focusing system as most of the work I do with the 5DSR is on tripod and shutter release (live view). My questions will have to do with higher ISO noise for night photography and lens ability to resolve to this high of resolution. Will be a killer landscape camera if the DR keeps up with the R5 and any ISO noise is tame. 

Will also be interesting to see how if they improve the EVF for night photography (or if they can). It is still one of main reasons I like the OVF on my 5DSR.


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## bbasiaga (Dec 2, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Will be interesting to see how this one shapes up. I am not as concerned about the IBIS and focusing system as most of the work I do with the 5DSR is on tripod and shutter release (live view). My questions will have to do with higher ISO noise for night photography and lens ability to resolve to this high of resolution. Will be a killer landscape camera if the DR keeps up with the R5 and any ISO noise is tame.
> 
> Will also be interesting to see how if they improve the EVF for night photography (or if they can). It is still one of main reasons I like the OVF on my 5DSR.


What kind of improvement are you looking for? I only ask because I've had the opposite findings - my M50 and the R6 I used for a week or so seemed like a HUGE improvement in low light visibility. Especially if I turned off exposure compensation. Nice bright view, just needed to be sure to watch the exposure meter. 

-Brian


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## bbasiaga (Dec 2, 2020)

90mp...pixel shifting to 300mp....yikes. That's a lot. I wonder if they limit frame rates and stick with SD cards, or go with the 1 SD 1 CFE card like the 5d...the latter may not be necessary with no 8k video. But even if video is not a focus, they may still include that feature. And people will certainly complain either way - "charge me less, I don't need it', or 'its clearly capable, they just needed to use their cripple hammer'. 

-Brian


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## jvillain (Dec 2, 2020)

As I mostly do product work and I have the BMPCC for video Canon has my full attention.


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## Hector1970 (Dec 2, 2020)

I think this would be enough to move me to mirrorless. HD video would be fine for me or leave it out altogether. Video must be my must underused tool on a Canon camera. I've never understood why its become such a vital part of the sales pitch. I wonder what % of Full Frame camera buyers are mainly videographers. I see great images taken with them but not much great video. I think its probably that interesting video requires alot more than a good camera. There are much smaller devices that deliver good 4K video ( I can't even display 8K video). Even phone video is quite excellent. I'm sure it wouldn't reduce the price much if video was removed. Consumers probably expect a minimum of 8K video nowadays even though its probably impossible for them to do anything with it. You need a good computer to edit it.


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## VivaLasVegas (Dec 2, 2020)

Canonrumors: A 90mp R5s w/h pixel shift(+300mp).....
Apple M1: ....is that all you got, bring it on!


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## keithcooper (Dec 2, 2020)

Looks like a replacement for my 5Ds. The R5 was very good, but not a big enough advance in areas of importance to me (for the outlay)
I've been waiting for pixel shift since using the rather nice S1R for a while, with TS-E lenses.
Looks like an expensive year if the 14mm RF tilt shift comes at the same time (and why not, they go together).


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## Maximilian (Dec 2, 2020)

Will be interesting, what that'll mean as resulting resolution 



> This might be the death knell for my ...


And my Fuji E900 




marathonman said:


> Pixel shift. 64GB cards are *******!


It’ll be enough for at least one pic, won't it?


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## Deleted member 68328 (Dec 2, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> We are never getting another 5D DSLR, it would be an economic misstep if Canon made such a camera. Move to RF.


You've ruined my day lmao


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## Deleted member 68328 (Dec 2, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Hi,
> Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a Direct Print button? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that PrintingRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the Direct Print button on the Kodak PixPro AZ252?
> 
> Thanks


Purpose of that post? Dumb.


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## SteveC (Dec 2, 2020)

300 MP?

OK, what does that work out to, 24K video? (Which would overheat in about 35 seconds.)



More seriously, this will resolve the nose hairs of a flea at 2 kilometers, so it should make the hi-res people very, very happy!


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## Maximilian (Dec 2, 2020)

yoms said:


> You've ruined my day lmao


Relax, enjoy your current gear, take great pics and move to R/RF when you want go spend much money


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## JustAnotherCanonShooter (Dec 2, 2020)

what would be cool is if we can get pixel shift technology on the R5.


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## AlanF (Dec 2, 2020)

slclick said:


> This might be the death knell for my 5D3.


This might be the death knell for my R5.


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## Deleted member 68328 (Dec 2, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> Relax, enjoy your current gear, take great pics and move to R/RF Ehen you want Go spend mich money


I actually sold my Canon gear and have nothing right now. Will definitely wait to see if a D850 replacement materialises or not. Same for the new F lenses. If not, I can still buy a 5D Mark IV (it's cheap now) or eventually go with a R5. I'm not there yet.


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## Maximilian (Dec 2, 2020)

AlanF said:


> This might be the death knell for my R5.


Send it to me. 
I'll burry it gracefully - after a few thousand actuations more


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## highdesertmesa (Dec 2, 2020)

All I want to hear is confirmation of no AA filter.


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## melgross (Dec 2, 2020)

VivaLasVegas said:


> Canonrumors: A 90mp R5s w/h pixel shift(+300mp).....
> Apple M1: ....is that all you got, bring it on!


You’ll need an M1 machine to process these files. I’m straining on the leash about when my Macbook Pro will be here.


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## melgross (Dec 2, 2020)

SteveC said:


> 300 MP?
> 
> OK, what does that work out to, 24K video? (Which would overheat in about 35 seconds.)
> 
> ...


I certainly don’t need the rez, but I WANT the rez. It should make Lloyd Chambers from digilloyd very happy with Canon, for a change.


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## Bonich (Dec 2, 2020)

yoms said:


> You've ruined my day lmao


Buy into R system and your day is save!


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## ericblenman (Dec 2, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> Will be interesting, what that'll mean as resulting resolution
> 
> 
> And my Fuji E900
> ...



Even my 15TB NAS twitches at the thought of these file sizes!


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## amorse (Dec 2, 2020)

Q1 you say? Oh boy - I'm going to need to save faster.


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## Hector1970 (Dec 2, 2020)

keithcooper said:


> Looks like a replacement for my 5Ds. The R5 was very good, but not a big enough advance in areas of importance to me (for the outlay)
> I've been waiting for pixel shift since using the rather nice S1R for a while, with TS-E lenses.
> Looks like an expensive year if the 14mm RF tilt shift comes at the same time (and why not, they go together).


I bought your book on TS-E . Very good I thought. It's hard to find such a comprehensive view of them elsewhere.


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## Bishop80 (Dec 2, 2020)

Yes, I would buy a high MP Canon camera like this.

Most of our existing cameras have that Auto Sensor Cleaning feature that shakes the dust off.
Could we get a firmware hack to use that for IBIS and/or Pixel Shift?


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## tron (Dec 2, 2020)

AlanF said:


> This might be the death knell for my R5.


This might be the death knell for my 5DsR and 90D... and why not 5D4 (I do have a R5 already and a nice … lock down to accompany it!)


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## usern4cr (Dec 2, 2020)

Well, I hope we can see a difference in the quality of an image in a 90MP sensor compared to the 45MP sensor. If so, then I'm very interested in it. Let's hope that they can make other improvements over the R5 so that there will additional reasons to get it over the R5.

I wonder if they can pull off a pixel shift at that high resolution? It is usually worthless (IMHO) for handheld photos or photos with any subject motion (which is most normal cases). But it can work for tripod shots with a non-moving subject, such as landscapes or product shots. Now, can any L lens capture a sharp image at 360MP?  

The one feature that I (personally) would really like to see is "aperture bracketing". I like to take different aperture shots of the same thing and see which was best later in post. If they added that alone then I'd want to buy it.


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## Kiton (Dec 2, 2020)

I never thought I would see the day when I would give up my 5d mk 4.
It is long gone, and I only partially regret it.

The R5 seriously lacks frame per second choices, it is too slow or too fast. 
Before bringing me 90+ mp, please bring me 3 choices in frames per second!!


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## peters (Dec 2, 2020)

This would be great  In my opinion a higher resolution is a very nice feature to have. Especialy for productshots, its a big improvement. Cutouts are cleaner, retouch is cleaner... given the high end quality RF lenses that canon currently builds, a high resolution camera would be awesome. Also cropping at event photos would be handy. 
I also think that the medium format becomes less appealing. At least for me. If my canon could do 90mpixel, which are very sharp with a nice prime lense, I dont think I would be interested any longer in a 120mp hasselblad, which may be an awesome camery, but also comes with a LOT of downsides...


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## peters (Dec 2, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Well, I hope we can see a difference in the quality of an image in a 90MP sensor compared to the 45MP sensor. I hope we can, but I will have to see it to believe it. If the IQ can show enough improvement then I'm very interested in it. Let's hope that they can make other big (or tiny) improvements over the R5 so that there will additional reasons to get it over the R5.
> 
> Regarding pixel shift, am I the only one who doesn't give a **** about it? IMHO it will be worthless for handheld photos or photos with any subject motion (which is most normal cases). If you use a tripod for a shot of the Grand Canyon then the rocks aren't going to move so you might have a chance of more resolution than the 90MP can give, but even then I'll have to see it to believe it. While I would be happy if it really could happen and it'd be great, I view it as almost entirely a marketing gimmick which camera makers feel they have to highlight or else they'll lose sales.
> 
> Speaking of new high end R bodies, I wonder if they're going to offer a R5a (astro) version, where the red has more sensitivity to H-Alpha? That would be interesting, even in a 45MP sensor.


I think pixelshift CAN be usefull, if you are into some very niche kind of work.
I tried it with the Sony A7R IV for some product shots, but it was a real pain to handle this. 
I think it can be nice for extremely large landscape prints.


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## David - Sydney (Dec 2, 2020)

Will this be enough "reach" for 7D users? Assuming that this is an upscaled M6ii 32mp APS-C sensor that does 14fps then I wonder what the frame rate would be for a R5s... Could be ~4fps mechanical and crop to suit if the bottle neck is the sensor read speed (90mp vs 32mp). If the read speed is faster then this could be quite interesting for birders etc. The write speed to the CFe card can handle 2600Mbps so that is no issue.


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## David - Sydney (Dec 2, 2020)

Kiton said:


> I never thought I would see the day when I would give up my 5d mk 4.
> It is long gone, and I only partially regret it.
> 
> The R5 seriously lacks frame per second choices, it is too slow or too fast.
> Before bringing me 90+ mp, please bring me 3 choices in frames per second!!


What is the downside for "too fast" except for storage space and reviewing time? You could use the rate button in camera or delete easily in post. If card storage size is the problem then CRAW is a possibility. I will be shooting a karate black belt grading on Saturday with the R5 for the first time. Normally I would take ~1500-1800 shots on my 5Div but there will be a lot more shots with the faster frame rate and I only have 128GB cards. CRAW is a definite possibility for this scenario for me even though the shadow recovery could be an issue if the light is poor.


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## Floydian (Dec 2, 2020)

Well, on the Fuji GFX100 the pixel shift update not a real succes, but I think it's a matter of a decent update to fix this. 300mp is huge! I once saw a 400 from a Hasselblad, that was insane good and very detailed, but also an attack on the iMac. But 90mpx sounds already very good....I'm in..!!!


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## Rocksthaman (Dec 2, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> I think this would be enough to move me to mirrorless. HD video would be fine for me or leave it out altogether. Video must be my must underused tool on a Canon camera. I've never understood why its become such a vital part of the sales pitch. I wonder what % of Full Frame camera buyers are mainly videographers. I see great images taken with them but not much great video. I think its probably that interesting video requires alot more than a good camera. There are much smaller devices that deliver good 4K video ( I can't even display 8K video). Even phone video is quite excellent. I'm sure it wouldn't reduce the price much if video was removed. Consumers probably expect a minimum of 8K video nowadays even though its probably impossible for them to do anything with it. You need a good computer to edit it.



You just need a 650-699 Mac mini to edit 8k thanks to M1 chip. Heck even a IPhone 12 can get the job done nowadays.

Video shooters make these cameras more cost effective to produce, they are also the gateway to the cinema line for Canon. Canon didn’t accidentally put 8k in every R5 press release.

Its one of the killers for Nikon, who would by z Mount lens if they had any cinema camera aspirations


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## David - Sydney (Dec 2, 2020)

yoms said:


> I actually sold my Canon gear and have nothing right now. Will definitely wait to see if a D850 replacement materialises or not. Same for the new F lenses. If not, I can still buy a 5D Mark IV (it's cheap now) or eventually go with a R5. I'm not there yet.


Have you taken the R5 for a test drive/rental? The lenses are a great step forward. The only downsides for the R5 vs 5Div for me were the OVF/EVF and battery life. Battery life is still substantial but I always carried a spare battery for the 5Div just in case (very rarely used). Using eye-AF in the EVF, the option for exposure compensation in it or not and the option for high refresh rate or not was more than enough for me to move.
The only other issue for me was needing a new underwater housing which was a pain in the wallet. The old one handled 5Diii/iv/SR and would have potentially handled a 5Dv in the same housing. The only other issue associated with it is that the face sensor is (switching the EVF/rear LCD) is now permanently covered so I have to remap the MFn button to switch them.... if the Rate button could be remapped would be a much more ergonomic option!


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## unfocused (Dec 2, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> We are never getting another 5D DSLR, it would be an economic misstep if Canon made such a camera. Move to RF.


Are you basing this on something other than your opinion? I respect your reporting on rumors, but I don't have a lot of confidence in your knowledge of what would or would not be "an economic misstep" for Canon.


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## David - Sydney (Dec 2, 2020)

melgross said:


> You’ll need an M1 machine to process these files. I’m straining on the leash about when my Macbook Pro will be here.


If Apple brought out a 16" version with the M1 with 32GB RAM then I (and it seems many, many others) would have jumped at it. The 13" MBpro is a processing beast but the screen is just too small for me so I will struggle reasonably well with a 2013" i7/16B/ 512GB SSD for another 6 months.
Hopefully the 16" will have mini LED screen that is 4k res and a HD camera and the masses will be appeased! What else could you want


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## Deleted member 68328 (Dec 2, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Have you taken the R5 for a test drive/rental? The lenses are a great step forward. The only downsides for the R5 vs 5Div for me were the OVF/EVF and battery life. Battery life is still substantial but I always carried a spare battery for the 5Div just in case (very rarely used). Using eye-AF in the EVF, the option for exposure compensation in it or not and the option for high refresh rate or not was more than enough for me to move.
> The only other issue for me was needing a new underwater housing which was a pain in the wallet. The old one handled 5Diii/iv/SR and would have potentially handled a 5Dv in the same housing. The only other issue associated with it is that the face sensor is (switching the EVF/rear LCD) is now permanently covered so I have to remap the MFn button to switch them.... if the Rate button could be remapped would be a much more ergonomic option!


No I haven't in all honesty. I do understand the pros and the cons of the mirrorless system. I also understand - and admit - that there are more pros than cons. But I just like so much the body, the handling, the feel, the OVF and the overall shooting experience of a DSLR. It's not rational or based on technicals, it just is.


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## Deleted member 68328 (Dec 2, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> If Apple brought out a 16" version with the M1 with 32GB RAM then I (and it seems many, many others) would have jumped at it. The 13" MBpro is a processing beast but the screen is just too small for me so I will struggle reasonably well with a 2013" i7/16B/ 512GB SSD for another 6 months.
> Hopefully the 16" will have mini LED screen that is 4k res and a HD camera and the masses will be appeased! What else could you want


I actually think the MacBook Air + a 27"-or-so external display is a great combo. Light on the go and big screen at home. Another combo which I think is even more interesting: iMac + iPad Air. Even lighter on the go + processing power enough for editing while away. Big screen at home on the iMac, you can use the iPad with macOS sidecar which opens pencil edits in softwares like PS, LR, etc.


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## AlanF (Dec 2, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> What is the downside for "too fast" except for storage space and reviewing time? You could use the rate button in camera or delete easily in post. If card storage size is the problem then CRAW is a possibility. I will be shooting a karate black belt grading on Saturday with the R5 for the first time. Normally I would take ~1500-1800 shots on my 5Div but there will be a lot more shots with the faster frame rate and I only have 128GB cards. CRAW is a definite possibility for this scenario for me even though the shadow recovery could be an issue if the light is poor.


What is the downside for being able to change the fps of the electronic shutter?


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## EOS 4 Life (Dec 2, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> We are never getting another 5D DSLR, it would be an economic misstep if Canon made such a camera. Move to RF.


If 5D Mark IV sells then Canon will make 5D Mark V.
That is how they roll.
It makes no sense to discontinue making things that sell well.


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## EOS 4 Life (Dec 2, 2020)

JustAnotherCanonShooter said:


> what would be cool is if we can get pixel shift technology on the R5.


R5 has IBIS so pixel shift could be added in firmware or through Magic Lantern


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## Mr Majestyk (Dec 2, 2020)

slclick said:


> This might be the death knell for my 5D3.


The 5Ds(R) was already the death knell foir the 5D3, rendered it obsolete on day one.


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## Mr Majestyk (Dec 2, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> If Apple brought out a 16" version with the M1 with 32GB RAM then I (and it seems many, many others) would have jumped at it. The 13" MBpro is a processing beast but the screen is just too small for me so I will struggle reasonably well with a 2013" i7/16B/ 512GB SSD for another 6 months.
> Hopefully the 16" will have mini LED screen that is 4k res and a HD camera and the masses will be appeased! What else could you want


You do realise Apple has higher end 12 and 16 core M1x coming for their MBPros


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## dba101 (Dec 3, 2020)

Can’t imagine Canon saying goodbye to DSLR. They can do what they want.


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## slclick (Dec 3, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> Will be interesting, what that'll mean as resulting resolution
> 
> 
> And my Fuji E900
> ...


Ansel did say you only get one good one a year


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## slclick (Dec 3, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> The 5Ds(R) was already the death knell foir the 5D3, rendered it obsolete on day one.


MY 5D3, not THE 5D3. Mine's been chugging along very nicely for 100k+ images since the 5Ds/r launch. Personal experience post by me, sales post by you yet you still felt the need to respond.


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## dba101 (Dec 3, 2020)

Canon can reinvent most things. Who called the drop in filter and the touchpad, at their leisure? Loved the touchpad for bang in one touch focus.


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## usern4cr (Dec 3, 2020)

peters said:


> I think pixelshift CAN be usefull, if you are into some very niche kind of work.
> I tried it with the Sony A7R IV for some product shots, but it was a real pain to handle this.
> I think it can be nice for extremely large landscape prints.


Well, I'm really into large landscape prints so if they make pixel shift really work for it then I'll be glad to use it.


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## addola (Dec 3, 2020)

Pixel Shift for higher resolution photos should come to the EOS R6. It would allow the possibility of a higher resolution output out of that 20 MP sensor. 

I mean, if Fujifilm can add it to the GFX100 afterwards, it is technically possible.


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## SteveC (Dec 3, 2020)

ericblenman said:


> Even my 15TB NAS twitches at the thought of these file sizes!



As I said here once, if I ever actually filled a 1 TB CFE card, having no second card to swap in to continue would be the BEGINNING of my problems. My NAS has 12 TB capacity right now, I have disks on the way that will either bump that to 18 or 24 depending on how I decide to do it (I pretty much have to start over if I decide I want to go without a "hot spare").


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## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2020)

I've had different pixel shift implementations. The S1R I had was awesome with this. 187 megapixel files that really edited like 187 files (for better or worse). They were scrunched together in camera. The sony version was a hassle, needing processing on the computer, and it seemed to never work right. Where the Panasonic would tolerate some subject movement, the Sony would fail even if the subject were locked down and you were using a tripod. 

So however useful this new Canon version will eventually be will be determined by the quality of execution. If it requires Canon's desktop software, I'm out. If it's 3/4s as good as the S1R, I'm in.


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## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

AlanF said:


> What is the downside for being able to change the fps of the electronic shutter?


I don't see one. I assume that the electronic shutter has a minimum speed based on the video rate so 24fps minimum but with full sensor read (not just DCI etc) it comes down to 20 fps. If you mean why hasn't Canon included a lower fps for eshutter then I don't know.
Storage and review time is the only downside for 20fps otherwise enjoy 20fps


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## twoheadedboy (Dec 3, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Are you basing this on something other than your opinion? I respect your reporting on rumors, but I don't have a lot of confidence in your knowledge of what would or would not be "an economic misstep" for Canon.



Do you think there is talk/development of such a camera he isn't reporting? 

Such a camera dilutes the R5 market, reduces the near-term sales of RF glass, and in general slows the shift to the RF mount by Canon shooters. You will never see another such EF body, and you will never see another EF pro body once the RF version is released. There also won't be an EF high-res body after this discussed camera is released, and I'm fairly confident the 90D will be the last EF DX body. In other words, we are not at a juncture where there will never be a new EF body of any kind. And as a result, you will never see a new EF lens, either. There is nothing wrong with the gear that's out there for you to keep shooting for many years, but if you have a GAS itch, it's going to RF mount (or possibly, but unlikely, M mount) moving forward, period.


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## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> If 5D Mark IV sells then Canon will make 5D Mark V.
> That is how they roll.
> It makes no sense to discontinue making things that sell well.


What is surprising to me is how little the 5Div has dropped in price over the last year or two. One thing is to keep milking as much profit for people unwilling to move to mirrorless but there are more and more second hand ones available from the people to have moved to mirrorless reducing new sales. Great camera but 4+ year old technology. 

The question is whether a 5Dv will sell well (or sell enough). Putting a R5 inards into a 5Dv case gives a bit more breathing space for thermal movement but - similar to the 1DXiii - the best AF will be when holding the camera at arms length via the rear LCD. Save some money on the EVF but offset that with pentaprism and AF sensor.


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## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> R5 has IBIS so pixel shift could be added in firmware or through Magic Lantern


Magic Lantern stalled with the 5Diii and Digic 5+ which was released roughly 8 years ago
There have been Digic 6, 6+, 7, 8 and now X so 5 generations later. It would be great if the open source community could reverse engineer the Digic X but Canon let the engineers loose with the current features compared to the available horsepower in the Digic 5+.
Magic Lantern could open up a few new features but not amazing developments. 3rd party thermal solutions will be the game changer for unlimited video on the R5 but the list of missing bits is relatively small.
Canon could easily add pixel shift in firmware though. If there are ever to do it, it will be in the next R5/R6 firmware release. More useful for the R6 I think given the small resolution but pixel shift for the R5 works well, it could impact the R5s sales.


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## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> You do realise Apple has higher end 12 and 16 core M1x coming for their MBPros


There will be >8 cores coming but I think that they will be reserved for the Mac Pro and not so much the 16" MBpro. Given the performance increase for the M1 over the competition, I believe that the biggest difference for M2/16" MBpro will be memory shared for GPU/CPU. Happy to be wrong and have options for more cores but I don't think that that will be the major issue compared to screen space. 
From Geekbench, the current maxed out 16" is 1095/6862 cf new 13" 1693/7309 so >+50%/+6% but that is only half the story as native video codecs will make the biggest difference.


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## KirkD (Dec 3, 2020)

This might be the death knell for my R5. Seriously, since I'm not making wall-size prints, I don't need "north of 300 MP". I'll stick with my R5.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> As I said here once, if I ever actually filled a 1 TB CFE card, having no second card to swap in to continue would be the BEGINNING of my problems. My NAS has 12 TB capacity right now, I have disks on the way that will either bump that to 18 or 24 depending on how I decide to do it (I pretty much have to start over if I decide I want to go without a "hot spare").


That’s what expansion units are for. Keep what you have and grow into much more space with greater redundancy.


----------



## SteveC (Dec 3, 2020)

KirkD said:


> This might be the death knell for my R5. Seriously, since I'm not making wall-size prints, I don't need "north of 300 MP". I'll stick with my R5.



The R5 had more pixels than I really wanted, but the R6 had less (so I got the R5). But...this is still good news, because some people would go for a gigapixel if they could!


----------



## SteveC (Dec 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That’s what expansion units are for. Keep what you have and grow into much more space with greater redundancy.



This actually ought to hold me for quite some time. I'm not close to filling it even now, though the R5 did scare me a bit on a recent one-day trip to Yellowstone. Without much effort it exceeded multi-day trips elsewhere.


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 3, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Hi,
> Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a Direct Print button? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that PrintingRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the Direct Print button on the Kodak PixPro AZ252?
> 
> Thanks


I liked and used the Direct Print button on my 1Ds IIIs and really like the way Canon integrate their printers and cameras. When I travel I take a little CP printer and give prints away, works wonders and is so easy to print direct from the camera.


----------



## sanj (Dec 3, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Will be interesting to see how this one shapes up. I am not as concerned about the IBIS and focusing system as most of the work I do with the 5DSR is on tripod and shutter release (live view). My questions will have to do with higher ISO noise for night photography and lens ability to resolve to this high of resolution. Will be a killer landscape camera if the DR keeps up with the R5 and any ISO noise is tame.
> 
> Will also be interesting to see how if they improve the EVF for night photography (or if they can). It is still one of main reasons I like the OVF on my 5DSR.


Why would this be a 'killer' landscape camera, please? What does high mp have to do with landscape photography?


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## sanj (Dec 3, 2020)

KirkD said:


> This might be the death knell for my R5. Seriously, since I'm not making wall-size prints, I don't need "north of 300 MP". I'll stick with my R5.


Agree


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## slclick (Dec 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> Why would this be a 'killer' landscape camera, please? What does high mp have to do with landscape photography?


deciphering fine detail and holding that detail when producing large prints for one.


----------



## Dragon (Dec 3, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Will this be enough "reach" for 7D users? Assuming that this is an upscaled M6ii 32mp APS-C sensor that does 14fps then I wonder what the frame rate would be for a R5s... Could be ~4fps mechanical and crop to suit if the bottle neck is the sensor read speed (90mp vs 32mp). If the read speed is faster then this could be quite interesting for birders etc. The write speed to the CFe card can handle 2600Mbps so that is no issue.


I suspect this will be more than a scaling of the 90D sensor. The AF on my R5 is definitely better than the AF on my 90D. I'm sure some of that is attributable to the DigicX, but I suspect there is also some new magic in the sensor that will be ported to the R5s. There is also the matter of read speed and once again, the R5 sensor is giant step beyond the 90D and the R5s will need all the read speed it can muster with that many pixels and particularly with pixel shift. Lastly, the R5 has almost a full stop more DR at base ISO than the 90D, so hard to imagine an R5s without the dual gain feature.

To your question, I think it will have enough reach for the 7D users, but they also seem to be a price conscious lot (to be polite), so they will still be yammering for their R7. They may eventually get it, but not before Canon fully tests the market to see if they will choke up for an R5s . Personally, I would much rather see an upgraded M5 mark II (or whatever it might be called).


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## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

Dragon said:


> To your question, I think it will have enough reach for the 7D users, but they also seem to be a price conscious lot (to be polite), so they will still be yammering for their R7. They may eventually get it, but not before Canon fully tests the market to see if they will choke up for an R5s . Personally, I would much rather see an upgraded M5 mark II (or whatever it might be called).


Agreed. I still think that the 7D/7Dii were unicorns: cheap, weather sealed, fast and AF from the 1D. My first DLSR was a 7D. Canon seems to be segmenting the market to better align features with price now. Happy to be wrong and I'm sure that a lot of people will rejoice


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## RobbieHat (Dec 3, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> What kind of improvement are you looking for? I only ask because I've had the opposite findings - my M50 and the R6 I used for a week or so seemed like a HUGE improvement in low light visibility. Especially if I turned off exposure compensation. Nice bright view, just needed to be sure to watch the exposure meter.
> 
> -Brian



I can compose via OVF with my 5DSR better than with EVF on R5 when shooting Milky Way. There is enough ambient light to see through the OVF. Not so much the EVF. I need to use a flashlight to frame and check my edges on the R5. Not always an option when shooting at night.


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## RobbieHat (Dec 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> Why would this be a 'killer' landscape camera, please? What does high mp have to do with landscape photography?


The ability to retain detail when printing large for one. The ability to crop and still have plenty of pixels for printing as well. If you don’t need them, don’t buy them.


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## Maximilian (Dec 3, 2020)

slclick said:


> Ansel did say you only get one good one a year


Then my aspirations are much lower than Ansels  
I was more than pleased with the pics I got this year, esp. the dragonfly and amphibian ones


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## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> I can compose via OVF with my 5DSR better than with EVF on R5 when shooting Milky Way. There is enough ambient light to see through the OVF. Not so much the EVF. I need to use a flashlight to frame and check my edges on the R5. Not always an option when shooting at night.


True but when I have shot milky way with my R5 the only difference is a test shot to review the comp. The R5's sensor is better and the rear LCD is also better. real easy to see it


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## sanj (Dec 3, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> The ability to retain detail when printing large for one. The ability to crop and still have plenty of pixels for printing as well. If you don’t need them, don’t buy them.


"Printing large" is the key. NOT landscape. My point. When printing large - be it a movie poster or advertisement, more MP help. If you are cropping landscape, friendly advice: Reconsider your technique. I always find it odd that people are conditioned to believe high MP is for landscape. And why so defensive in life?


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 3, 2020)

ethanz said:


> Maybe that is one reason why Nikon is doing so poorly financially.


Or why they are going to improve


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## Tremotino (Dec 3, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> Will be interesting, what that'll mean as resulting resolution
> 
> 
> And my Fuji E900
> ...


For 36 pics, I would suggest.


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## Rzrsharp (Dec 3, 2020)

You take a photo of toe, R5s will shift a whole body for you.
Yeah!


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## Del Paso (Dec 3, 2020)

Even if I'll have to sell my car, prostitute myself, rob a bank, use an orange facial makeup, or (far worse), become a Justin Bieber or Kardashian addict, I'll get this camera!


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## sanj (Dec 3, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Even if I'll have to sell my car, prostitute myself, rob a bank, use an orange facial makeup, or (far worse), become a Justin Bieber or Kardashian addict, I'll get this camera!



Love your attitude.


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## Gazwas (Dec 3, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> There will be >8 cores coming but I think that they will be reserved for the Mac Pro and not so much the 16" MBpro. Given the performance increase for the M1 over the competition, I believe that the biggest difference for M2/16" MBpro will be memory shared for GPU/CPU. Happy to be wrong and have options for more cores but I don't think that that will be the major issue compared to screen space.
> From Geekbench, the current maxed out 16" is 1095/6862 cf new 13" 1693/7309 so >+50%/+6% but that is only half the story as native video codecs will make the biggest difference.



The Apple M1 already has 8 Cores doesn't it so they must be planning more for the M2(?) 16" MBP so probbly double the cores and doube the memory (16Cores/32GB). Oh and doulble the price.


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## GMCPhotographics (Dec 3, 2020)

90/300 mp...is that like one shot per 64gb card?


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## Randywayne (Dec 3, 2020)

Given that this is not video focused I hope to God that the duel card slots are both SD. It would be prohibitively expensive to have to "load up" on CFast cards for such a high MP body.


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## edoorn (Dec 3, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> What is the downside for "too fast" except for storage space and reviewing time? You could use the rate button in camera or delete easily in post. If card storage size is the problem then CRAW is a possibility. I will be shooting a karate black belt grading on Saturday with the R5 for the first time. Normally I would take ~1500-1800 shots on my 5Div but there will be a lot more shots with the faster frame rate and I only have 128GB cards. CRAW is a definite possibility for this scenario for me even though the shadow recovery could be an issue if the light is poor.



you'll be fine with shadow recovery, even with poor light and higher iso. There's no visible difference between craw and raw. This has been shown by multiple reviewers, and in my own testing where I shot an iso 3200 scene and totally wrecked and abused files taken in both formats at the same settings. They showed no difference after heavy editing (although I'd never ever edit a file in real life so badly and extreme) and viewed at 200%.


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## EOS 4 Life (Dec 3, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> What is surprising to me is how little the 5Div has dropped in price over the last year or two. One thing is to keep milking as much profit for people unwilling to move to mirrorless but there are more and more second hand ones available from the people to have moved to mirrorless reducing new sales. Great camera but 4+ year old technology.
> 
> The question is whether a 5Dv will sell well (or sell enough). Putting a R5 inards into a 5Dv case gives a bit more breathing space for thermal movement but - similar to the 1DXiii - the best AF will be when holding the camera at arms length via the rear LCD. Save some money on the EVF but offset that with pentaprism and AF sensor.


I think that is exactly what Canon should do in just making the 5D a DSLR version of the R5.
It would have a flip screen so the lack of an EVF would not be as big of a deal.
For those who still want an EVF the Port Keys L-Eye is $400 and not as huge as some alternatives.
I would gladly pay extra for the use of an OVF for photography.
The only thing that I would miss is the opportunity for drop-in ND filters.
Built-in NDs would probably put 5D out of most people's price range but I could see something like that in a 1DX.


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## EOS 4 Life (Dec 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> "Printing large" is the key. NOT landscape.


There are some landscape exhibitions which are only large prints to give the audience the feeling they are at the scene.


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## keithcooper (Dec 3, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> I bought your book on TS-E . Very good I thought. It's hard to find such a comprehensive view of them elsewhere.


Thanks much appreciated!


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## bbasiaga (Dec 3, 2020)

Randywayne said:


> Given that this is not video focused I hope to God that the duel card slots are both SD. It would be prohibitively expensive to have to "load up" on CFast cards for such a high MP body.



Especially since it would probably use CFExpress cards, rendingyour CFast useless! lol. But your point is well taken. The cost of CFexpress is one thing keeping me from coughing up for an R5 at this point. I mean, I bought my last camera 8 years ago so its not like I don't get my money's worth. But 3900 camera + 250x2 memory cards + a 200 card reader is a LOT more than just buying an R6 and using SD cards I already have.


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## dtaylor (Dec 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> "Printing large" is the key. NOT landscape. My point. When printing large - be it a movie poster or advertisement, more MP help.



Landscapes tend to be more challenging when it comes to fine detail. Now any modern FF camera 20mp and up can produce a competent 16x20/24" landscape print. But even at 16x20/24" some compositions may be more immersive with more MP and the right printer/paper combination. As you go larger MP starts to become very important to landscapes for critical viewers at close viewing distances.

Contrast this with portraits which used to scale pretty well to 16x20" with just 8-10mp. Sure there's more detail to record with higher MP and sharper glass. But it just doesn't seem as critical as the fine details in a landscape, so long as there are some sharp details in the portrait (notably the eyes). I felt like 6-8mp APS-C struggled with some landscapes even printed to 8x10. Never felt that way about an 8x10 portrait from those early DSLRs.



> If you are cropping landscape, friendly advice: Reconsider your technique.



Yeah...it's easy to say that until you shoot regularly at higher MP. Then variations pop out at you while in PS or LR and you don't hesitate to crop because you've still got 20-35mp and it still looks good. That's true for all subject matter. IQ and cropping ability soundly trumped higher fps for me to the point that I'm shooting everything, even sports, with the 5Ds now. A 90mp R5s would just bring more flexibility to the table. Your crop might end up at 45-50mp which is still excellent for very large prints.


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## jWeu (Dec 3, 2020)

What lens or image stableizer is able to transfer 90MP ? Sigma 85mm 1.4 ?


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## usern4cr (Dec 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Landscapes tend to be more challenging when it comes to fine detail. Now any modern FF camera 20mp and up can produce a competent 16x20/24" landscape print. But even at 16x20/24" some compositions may be more immersive with more MP and the right printer/paper combination. As you go larger MP starts to become very important to landscapes for critical viewers at close viewing distances.
> 
> Contrast this with portraits which used to scale pretty well to 16x20" with just 8-10mp. Sure there's more detail to record with higher MP and sharper glass. But it just doesn't seem as critical as the fine details in a landscape, so long as there are some sharp details in the portrait (notably the eyes). I felt like 6-8mp APS-C struggled with some landscapes even printed to 8x10. Never felt that way about an 8x10 portrait from those early DSLRs.
> 
> ...


That's a great post, dtaylor! I hadn't thought that much about the difference between landscapes vs people portraits when printing really big, but your comments make perfect sense. While all types of photos can benefit from better MP, some types can benefit more than others.

Regarding the issue of cropping, I'm a big fan of cropping since it gives you the flexibility to do whatever you want with the photo later in post. For some to say that those that crop need to "reconsider your technique" or sometimes sharper comments, I can just say I'm glad that they are happy without cropping. If I want to use a prime lens then I can't always adjust my position as needed, and moving subjects don't always stay where I want them to in the frame, and I don't think I'm such a brilliant photographer that my initial framing of the photo is always the best it could have ever been. And if I want to take pictures of birds far away then I may have to crop with the lens I happen to have, and I'll make the most out of whatever MP & IQ crop I get.

I'm looking forward to the R5s and hope that I can see enough better IQ to justify the step up from the R5 (which is already really great). My only use for the pixel shift feature would be for tripod shots of fixed subjects (typically landscapes with nothing moving), but I do a lot of that and hope that they pull it off. I don't know if any L lens can make full (sharp) use of a 360MP FF image, but I'll probably enjoy whatever IQ it can offer.


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## slclick (Dec 3, 2020)

Varied fine detail. Landscapes. When you have rocks, sand, various fauna and flora, water, sky and or night sky, nature's studio can be tough to light and frame while retaining detail and DoF. I'll take high mp on a tripod for that any day, yes, a landscape body. Do what you want with any camera as for the most part it's about you and not the gear but there are exceptions to that in order to achieve the finest images as opposed to snapshots.


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## unfocused (Dec 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Do you think there is talk/development of such a camera he isn't reporting?...



No. I asked @Canon Rumors Guy if his definitive declaration that there would be never be "_another 5D DSLR," _because_ "it would be an economic misstep if Canon made such a camera," _was based on reporting from his sources or if that was just his opinion. 

For, I don't know 40 years maybe, the most accurate predictor of what Canon would be doing has been to look at what Nikon is doing. Nikon has said they will be introducing new DSLR models and new lenses for DSLRs in the coming year. It would be a very significant development and very much out of character if Canon were to completely cede the DSLR market to Nikon. So, I'm just wondering if Canon Rumors Guy has sources that are confirming that, or if he is just voicing his own opinion, which he has every right to do, but which carries no more weight than the opinion of anyone else on this forum.


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## JohnC (Dec 3, 2020)

This is the camera that will move me from the 5d4 based upon what I've seen so far. Love the M6II which has convinced me of mirroless, but this will be the final deal.


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## slclick (Dec 3, 2020)

Death Knell ©


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## PhotoGenerous (Dec 3, 2020)

Can't wait! I tried dual shooting with an R5 and an R, but the R just doesn't cut it in that scenario so I've been using an R5 and 5DIV. I'm holding out for this camera before I can be 100% into the RF mount.

(And at sooner rather than later likely leaving behind the EF-M mount and getting a Fuji X100V)


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## JohnC (Dec 3, 2020)

PhotoGenerous said:


> Can't wait! I tried dual shooting with an R5 and an R, but the R just doesn't cut it in that scenario so I've been using an R5 and 5DIV. I'm holding out for this camera before I can be 100% into the RF mount.
> 
> (And at sooner rather than later likely leaving behind the EF-M mount and getting a Fuji X100V)


 intersting on the move from EF-M to Fuji.. I actually went the other direction, Fuji XT to EF-M M6II


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## slclick (Dec 3, 2020)

JohnC said:


> intersting on the move from EF-M to Fuji.. I actually went the other direction, Fuji XT to EF-M M6II


The X100 series is not an ecosystem it's stand alone so I totally get that move.


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## JohnC (Dec 3, 2020)

slclick said:


> The X100 series is not an ecosystem it's stand alone so I totally get that move.


ahhh... okay I didn't realize that


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## RobbieHat (Dec 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Landscapes tend to be more challenging when it comes to fine detail. Now any modern FF camera 20mp and up can produce a competent 16x20/24" landscape print. But even at 16x20/24" some compositions may be more immersive with more MP and the right printer/paper combination. As you go larger MP starts to become very important to landscapes for critical viewers at close viewing distances.
> 
> Contrast this with portraits which used to scale pretty well to 16x20" with just 8-10mp. Sure there's more detail to record with higher MP and sharper glass. But it just doesn't seem as critical as the fine details in a landscape, so long as there are some sharp details in the portrait (notably the eyes). I felt like 6-8mp APS-C struggled with some landscapes even printed to 8x10. Never felt that way about an 8x10 portrait from those early DSLRs.
> 
> ...



Didn't want to go down this rathole in response, but your point on cropping is exactly right. In addition, I have had situations where I shot wider because the lens I had didn't zoom enough or otherwise was limited in moving to tighten the composition (standing on a cliff edge) and used cropping to effectively isolate a portion of the composition. Too many examples to cite, but don't want to get into an argument over the point. As I said, and it is not a slight, if you don't need the megapixels don't buy them. There are certainly drawbacks on file size, storage, etc. I, for one, will be buying this body as soon as it arrives. Won't be pre-ordering this time!


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## amorse (Dec 3, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Didn't want to go down this rathole in response, but your point on cropping is exactly right. In addition, I have had situations where I shot wider because the lens I had didn't zoom enough or otherwise was limited in moving to tighten the composition (standing on a cliff edge) and used cropping to effectively isolate a portion of the composition. Too many examples to cite, but don't want to get into an argument over the point. As I said, and it is not a slight, if you don't need the megapixels don't buy them. There are certainly drawbacks on file size, storage, etc. I, for one, will be buying this body as soon as it arrives. Won't be pre-ordering this time!


Agreed. In my experience I don't plan to crop, but rather end up cropping by necessity. Flight tour landscapes are a good example - you're not going to want to change lenses with the door off or window open in an airplane if it's avoidable, but sometimes you need a bit more reach and it's a compromise. That extra resolution makes that compromise more palatable. 

No doubt 90mp is overkill for many people, but that kind of resolution increase can open some doors in a pinch, especially with compressed raw offsetting some of the storage penalty.


----------



## amorse (Dec 3, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> I can compose via OVF with my 5DSR better than with EVF on R5 when shooting Milky Way. There is enough ambient light to see through the OVF. Not so much the EVF. I need to use a flashlight to frame and check my edges on the R5. Not always an option when shooting at night.


Question for you - how does the R5 EVF in low light compare to the live view on the 5DSR? I've been using Canon bodies for a while now, and I'd say one of the things that really impressed me about other manufacturers were their low light sensitivity in live view/through the EVF. I've shot with some friends who use other manufacturers and found that their live view is superior to both my night vision and the live view on my 5DIV - I was hoping the R5 (and maybe the R5s) would improve in that respect, but I've yet to hold one to see for myself! Thanks!


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## Klas R (Dec 3, 2020)

To me the R5s could become the best of two worlds. 

I am primarily a bird photographer. Quite often when I go birdwatching there is a bird that brings my attention, very often at some distance. To be sure to be able to identify what bird we are talking about I take pictures. This means that the picture afterwards need o be enlarged/cropped quite a lot. That means that an R5s set to APS-C mode, i.e. I get a 34 Mpixel "precropped" picture which will be good enough and saves a lot of space on my hard disk. 

An other day I might be taking pictures from a hideout that makes it possible to fill an almost complete full frame, i.e. take full advantage of the 90 Mpixel available.

This makes the R5s more interesting than the R5, as the use of the APS-C format in the R5 only will give me 17Mpixel, as compared to the 20 I already today get with my 7D Mk II.

It seems as it as well will be more interesting than a possible R7 with let's say 34 Mpixel, but that being the only alternative.


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## chasingrealness (Dec 3, 2020)

I’d like to see pixel shift make its way onto the R5 - that would produce images that are high res enough for everything I’m trying to do.


----------



## DrToast (Dec 3, 2020)

I will pre-order this bad boy the second it goes on sale. 

Two things I'll be interested in seeing. 
1. AA Filter? 
2. Will they still apply noise reduction to get more dynamic range? Hopefully they won't go that route on this camera to preserve as much detail as possible.


----------



## AEWest (Dec 3, 2020)

yoms said:


> Hi,
> Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a 5D Mark V? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that NikonRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the D850?
> 
> Thanks


It appears to me that Canon is now all in on the R mount, so I would highly doubt that any new EF cameras will be forthcoming. Especially given how popular the R5 and R6 seem to be, my guess is that the 1D3 was the last new EF camera. 

Nikon is in a bit of different situation - their F mount users are very loyal to that mount, and thus their Z cameras haven't taken their existing user base by storm. Now add to the fact that they are struggling financially more than Canon is, they need some quick short term cash, which might happen with an updated D850. If that is the case, I would expect this model to be their last DSLR, as no manufacturer can afford to carry on two full separate lens lineups for very long.


----------



## leviathan18 (Dec 3, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Have you taken the R5 for a test drive/rental? The lenses are a great step forward. The only downsides for the R5 vs 5Div for me were the OVF/EVF and battery life. Battery life is still substantial but I always carried a spare battery for the 5Div just in case (very rarely used). Using eye-AF in the EVF, the option for exposure compensation in it or not and the option for high refresh rate or not was more than enough for me to move.
> The only other issue for me was needing a new underwater housing which was a pain in the wallet. The old one handled 5Diii/iv/SR and would have potentially handled a 5Dv in the same housing. The only other issue associated with it is that the face sensor is (switching the EVF/rear LCD) is now permanently covered so I have to remap the MFn button to switch them.... if the Rate button could be remapped would be a much more ergonomic option!


Check housing from an italian company called Easydive, when my 7D dies I will change my nauticam housing for Easydive to be able to use my 5ds, R, R5 and future bodies


----------



## PhotoGenerous (Dec 3, 2020)

JohnC said:


> intersting on the move from EF-M to Fuji.. I actually went the other direction, Fuji XT to EF-M M6II



The other guy answered it, but the X100V is a fixed lens camera, with two possible attachments for a little bit wider and a little bit more telephoto. It's weather sealed (with filter on, same as many Canon L lenses) and has the built in ND filters. 

I have my full frame cameras when doing "real" photography. My M6 I mostly just use when I (pre-covid) would go out to a restaurant for birthdays, or a friendsgiving dinner, or other stuff like that. When I really did want small. But I didn't really need a full suite of lenses. 

Plus I just do want to mess around with the controls of another system. I've only ever known Canon. And want to actually take a look for myself at the film presets and other quirks of a non-Canon system. And a X100V is a non-committal way to do that since it's standalone for the most part.


----------



## leviathan18 (Dec 3, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> What is surprising to me is how little the 5Div has dropped in price over the last year or two. One thing is to keep milking as much profit for people unwilling to move to mirrorless but there are more and more second hand ones available from the people to have moved to mirrorless reducing new sales. Great camera but 4+ year old technology.
> 
> The question is whether a 5Dv will sell well (or sell enough). Putting a R5 inards into a 5Dv case gives a bit more breathing space for thermal movement but - similar to the 1DXiii - the best AF will be when holding the camera at arms length via the rear LCD. Save some money on the EVF but offset that with pentaprism and AF sensor.



canon Panama is discounting the 5D MKIV like there is no tomorrow you can find it on sale at around $1500 (black friday sale)


----------



## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> The Apple M1 already has 8 Cores doesn't it so they must be planning more for the M2(?) 16" MBP so probbly double the cores and doube the memory (16Cores/32GB). Oh and doulble the price.


currently 4 performance and 4 efficient cores in M1 with a 10:1 power efficiency between them. Even if they doubled the memory but kept the cores, I think that a lot of people would still buy the 16" version with the single core performance >50% more than the current 16" plus the video goodies. Happy for more cores => more fun


----------



## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

leviathan18 said:


> Check housing from an italian company called Easydive, when my 7D dies I will change my nauticam housing for Easydive to be able to use my 5ds, R, R5 and future bodies


Already bought into the Ikelite system. Just needed to change the body as the ports and TTL strobe already match. Still expensive for me... Nauticam is the best but - wow - the price. I'm not making money from underwater so I can't justify that expense


----------



## David - Sydney (Dec 3, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> Especially since it would probably use CFExpress cards, rendingyour CFast useless! lol. But your point is well taken. The cost of CFexpress is one thing keeping me from coughing up for an R5 at this point. I mean, I bought my last camera 8 years ago so its not like I don't get my money's worth. But 3900 camera + 250x2 memory cards + a 200 card reader is a LOT more than just buying an R6 and using SD cards I already have.


Prograde offer a combined USH-II SD card + CFe card reader which is nice but I concur that the memory card costs exceeded my original budget and I only got 128GB.
With the R6 being 20mp, does using a USH-I SD card slow down the maximum frame rate/buffer? It does slow down the R5.


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## RobbieHat (Dec 3, 2020)

amorse said:


> Question for you - how does the R5 EVF in low light compare to the live view on the 5DSR? I've been using Canon bodies for a while now, and I'd say one of the things that really impressed me about other manufacturers were their low light sensitivity in live view/through the EVF. I've shot with some friends who use other manufacturers and found that their live view is superior to both my night vision and the live view on my 5DIV - I was hoping the R5 (and maybe the R5s) would improve in that respect, but I've yet to hold one to see for myself! Thanks!


I need more time with it to confirm. It is definitely better than live view on 5DSR. It has pros and cons vs OVF but without an OVF you only have one option. I agree with previous poster that the workaround is take a shot and look. The display is amazing for shot review. But at 30 seconds a shot that process can take awhile if you need to dial it in. If you light paint or use spot to focus it is great. Very bright EVF.


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 3, 2020)

unfocused said:


> No. I asked @Canon Rumors Guy if his definitive declaration that there would be never be "_another 5D DSLR," _because_ "it would be an economic misstep if Canon made such a camera," _was based on reporting from his sources or if that was just his opinion.
> 
> For, I don't know 40 years maybe, the most accurate predictor of what Canon would be doing has been to look at what Nikon is doing. Nikon has said they will be introducing new DSLR models and new lenses for DSLRs in the coming year. It would be a very significant development and very much out of character if Canon were to completely cede the DSLR market to Nikon. So, I'm just wondering if Canon Rumors Guy has sources that are confirming that, or if he is just voicing his own opinion, which he has every right to do, but which carries no more weight than the opinion of anyone else on this forum.


I must bookmark Canon Rumors Guy's post because in a few years time (when the mirrorless frenzy has died down / matured, take your pick, ) and Canon bring out a 5DV I'm just gonna love quoting that post.  

There's a huge amount of up to date EF lenses available, and no doubt if Nikon do introduce the D870 (or whatever) Canon will be watching closely. Also looks like Pentax are going to hang their hat on the slr model continuing, so it's going to be interesting to see who's got it wrong and who's right.


----------



## cayenne (Dec 3, 2020)

yoms said:


> Hi,
> Have you heard confirmations about the fact that we won't see a 5D Mark V? Or is it still a possibility given the fact that NikonRumors now reports as almost a certainty a replacement for the D850?
> 
> Thanks



If anyone is taking bets, I'd be willing to put down a significant bit of $$ that the 5D5 (DSLR) won't ever see the day of light.

I think its pretty much a given that Canon is firmly on the mirrorless road now and not looking back.

Just my $0.02,
cayenne


----------



## cayenne (Dec 3, 2020)

Floydian said:


> Well, on the Fuji GFX100 the pixel shift update not a real succes, but I think it's a matter of a decent update to fix this. 300mp is huge! I once saw a 400 from a Hasselblad, that was insane good and very detailed, but also an attack on the iMac. But 90mpx sounds already very good....I'm in..!!!



Hmm...as far as I know, my GFX100 has not had a firmware update to enable pixel shift.
The last one had folks hoping for that, but it did not appear in that update.

I believe that it is coming, I believe Fuji said it was on the roadmap, but it has not been released to the public yet.

I'd LOVE to see and try it out when it comes out.

I saw a YouTube video about the very high end Hassy using pixel shift to shoot old paintings and other artwork....very interesting.

But as far as I know the GFX 100 pixel shift firmware update has not been released yet.....I own one. I love it.

I'm quite anxious to see what Canon comes up with for a high pixel count sensor camera....

HTH,

cayenne


----------



## cayenne (Dec 3, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Hmm...as far as I know, my GFX100 has not had a firmware update to enable pixel shift.
> The last one had folks hoping for that, but it did not appear in that update.
> 
> I believe that it is coming, I believe Fuji said it was on the roadmap, but it has not been released to the public yet.
> ...




Crap...I just googled to make sure.

It appears that Fuji DID just release pixel shift for GFX100.....looks like right about at Thanksgiving, so, maybe that's why I missed it...too busy eating and cooking.

Gonna look into this....appears at first glance this one requires external application from camera to assemble these images.....looking into it now.

C


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> "Printing large" is the key. NOT landscape. My point. When printing large - be it a movie poster or advertisement, more MP help. If you are cropping landscape, friendly advice: Reconsider your technique. I always find it odd that people are conditioned to believe high MP is for landscape. And why so defensive in life?


I'd agree that printing large is the key, and not necessarily landscapes. But the truth is the vast majority of large prints most of us here will make are landscapes, so for most forum readers it is also fair to say landscapes benefit from higher MP more than most. Unless of course we get into the pixels on duck wildlife shooters scenarios...

As for the advice to "Reconsider your technique" as a suggestion to stop cropping for landscape images, that is simply misguided. Many occasions don't allow for accurate capture framing to the desired output, most of the time my intended output composition isn't 3:2 so a crop is unavoidable. Personally my prime lenses vastly out perform my zooms particularly towards the edges of the frame, so I can take a sharper image with a prime even if I don't have the exact focal length I need at capture and intend to crop. I use T/S lenses a lot and they are all fixed focal lengths so my end composition rarely aligns with the perspective and focal length T/S lenses I have but the lenses other characteristics demand their use. If you don't have T/S lenses then you might need to use the transform tool to throw away many of your original pixels to get the perspective corrected.

No, there are many reasons cropping is unavoidable in landscape images and for those reasons for some people and situations more pixels might be a benefit.


----------



## reef58 (Dec 4, 2020)

Dragon said:


> I suspect this will be more than a scaling of the 90D sensor. The AF on my R5 is definitely better than the AF on my 90D. I'm sure some of that is attributable to the DigicX, but I suspect there is also some new magic in the sensor that will be ported to the R5s. There is also the matter of read speed and once again, the R5 sensor is giant step beyond the 90D and the R5s will need all the read speed it can muster with that many pixels and particularly with pixel shift. Lastly, the R5 has almost a full stop more DR at base ISO than the 90D, so hard to imagine an R5s without the dual gain feature.
> 
> To your question, I think it will have enough reach for the 7D users, but they also seem to be a price conscious lot (to be polite), so they will still be yammering for their R7. They may eventually get it, but not before Canon fully tests the market to see if they will choke up for an R5s . Personally, I would much rather see an upgraded M5 mark II (or whatever it might be called).



I don't think 7d users are so much price conscience but rather pixel density/fps conscience. With Canon you can either have pixel density 5ds(r) or FPS 1dx but not both until the 7d2. That has changed with the r5 of course.


----------



## reef58 (Dec 4, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Didn't want to go down this rathole in response, but your point on cropping is exactly right. In addition, I have had situations where I shot wider because the lens I had didn't zoom enough or otherwise was limited in moving to tighten the composition (standing on a cliff edge) and used cropping to effectively isolate a portion of the composition. Too many examples to cite, but don't want to get into an argument over the point. As I said, and it is not a slight, if you don't need the megapixels don't buy them. There are certainly drawbacks on file size, storage, etc. I, for one, will be buying this body as soon as it arrives. Won't be pre-ordering this time!



Arnold Newman cropped so don't sweat it. Once the anti cropper is better at composition than Arnold Newman we can bow down to his greatness.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Dec 4, 2020)

slclick said:


> MY 5D3, not THE 5D3. Mine's been chugging along very nicely for 100k+ images since the 5Ds/r launch. Personal experience post by me, sales post by you yet you still felt the need to respond.


Oh poor didums, didn't you realise this was a discussion forum. Maybe next time if your so pedantic spell out in detail what you're talking about.


----------



## unfocused (Dec 4, 2020)

slclick said:


> This might be the death knell for my 5D3.





Mr Majestyk said:


> Oh poor didums, didn't you realise this was a discussion forum. Maybe next time if your so pedantic spell out in detail what you're talking about.



Wow! I don't know how anyone could have misunderstood @slclick's statement.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Dec 4, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> ...
> Canon could easily add pixel shift in firmware though. If there are ever to do it, it will be in the next R5/R6 firmware release. More useful for the R6 I think given the small resolution but pixel shift for the R5 works well, it could impact the R5s sales.



I thought I read somewhere that it was questionable that pixel shift would even work on a camera with an AA filter.


----------



## slclick (Dec 4, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Oh poor didums, didn't you realise this was a discussion forum. Maybe next time if your so pedantic spell out in detail what you're talking about.


You'll sleep better tonight now, eh?


----------



## highdesertmesa (Dec 4, 2020)

sanj said:


> ... If you are cropping landscape, friendly advice: Reconsider your technique...



Take a hammer to your zoom lenses while you're at it, too.


----------



## Floydian (Dec 4, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Crap...I just googled to make sure.
> 
> It appears that Fuji DID just release pixel shift for GFX100.....looks like right about at Thanksgiving, so, maybe that's why I missed it...too busy eating and cooking.
> 
> ...



I saw a video on Youtube from a bold tattoo guy who showed it and it didn't look good. But a matter of going back to the drawing room and making it better.


----------



## allanP (Dec 4, 2020)

Announcement scheduled for Q1 of 2021 ...
...and if it works similarly to r5, availability for 2023 or later?
3 months waiting time for R5 (Europe) says my dealer.
What the heck is it?
Incapable, but with a big mouth. Too bad Canon! Shame!


----------



## Klas R (Dec 4, 2020)

Any ideas what:

Image stabilization will be a “slightly different version” than the current RF mount cameras.
actually mean ??


----------



## bbasiaga (Dec 4, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Prograde offer a combined USH-II SD card + CFe card reader which is nice but I concur that the memory card costs exceeded my original budget and I only got 128GB.
> With the R6 being 20mp, does using a USH-I SD card slow down the maximum frame rate/buffer? It does slow down the R5.


I didn't scientifically test it, but UHS-1 cards seemed only to affect the time it took the buffer to clear after it was full. Frame rate and max shots didn't seem to be a concern. WIth the UHS-II cards (I have the 1667x ones from Lexar, 128gb) the buffer emptied from full in low single digit seconds. It was maybe 10seconds with a sandisk USH -1 Extreme

-Brian


----------



## Fran Decatta (Dec 4, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Pixel shift. 64GB cards are *******!



At this way, 64 gb card will become the new 36 exposures analog 135 roll


----------



## Aaron Lozano (Dec 4, 2020)

And I would still do the same pictures... just that now I could possibly crop so much I could do 10 versions of the same picture


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Dec 4, 2020)

Aaron Lozano said:


> And I would still do the same pictures... just that now I could possibly crop so much I could do 10 versions of the same picture


That is why I scoff at people who say that a camera can have too much resolution.
With enough resolution, I could take a picture of everybody all at once and then retire.


----------



## Hector1970 (Dec 4, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I'd agree that printing large is the key, and not necessarily landscapes. But the truth is the vast majority of large prints most of us here will make are landscapes, so for most forum readers it is also fair to say landscapes benefit from higher MP more than most. Unless of course we get into the pixels on duck wildlife shooters scenarios...
> 
> As for the advice to "Reconsider your technique" as a suggestion to stop cropping for landscape images, that is simply misguided. Many occasions don't allow for accurate capture framing to the desired output, most of the time my intended output composition isn't 3:2 so a crop is unavoidable. Personally my prime lenses vastly out perform my zooms particularly towards the edges of the frame, so I can take a sharper image with a prime even if I don't have the exact focal length I need at capture and intend to crop. I use T/S lenses a lot and they are all fixed focal lengths so my end composition rarely aligns with the perspective and focal length T/S lenses I have but the lenses other characteristics demand their use. If you don't have T/S lenses then you might need to use the transform tool to throw away many of your original pixels to get the perspective corrected.
> 
> No, there are many reasons cropping is unavoidable in landscape images and for those reasons for some people and situations more pixels might be a benefit.


I'd agree. I think one of the biggest users will be landscape photographer. They are often people most likely to print and frame images. It's not bad technique to want high MP images. I love detail in images and would love the ability to zoom and zoom deep into an image and spot small details. This is probably not much use in a portrait when you often end up hiding detail (like imperfections). 300 MP might be overkill and files size a nightmare to manage but for me its an exciting development. I look forward to it.


----------



## Aaron Lozano (Dec 4, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> That is why I scoff at people who say that a camera can have too much resolution.
> With enough resolution, I could take a picture of everybody all at once and then retire.


The way my PC works now (2700X+1080Ti and 32GB RAM) going from my 22MP 5D Mark III to 90MP RAW files could come with a good increase in batch editing times. That is if I was still taking 1000s of pictures in a weeding (I quit a few years ago, not just for hobby)... But for that I would likely use an R6 or my current 5DIII, then swap to the R5s just for group pictures. Nice idea


----------



## cayenne (Dec 4, 2020)

keithcooper said:


> Thanks much appreciated!


Do you have a link to US sales of the book to see US prices, etc?
Or do you not sell to the US?

Looks and sounds like an interesting book indeed.

TIA,
cayenne


----------



## cayenne (Dec 4, 2020)

Floydian said:


> I saw a video on Youtube from a bold tattoo guy who showed it and it didn't look good. But a matter of going back to the drawing room and making it better.


LOL, I think I know who you're talking about...he is quite a *ahem*..character for sure.

I just downloaded the firmware update, and the app used to combine the 16 images, I'll try to play with it some this weekend and maybe report back here.
It might give insight into what the R5 IBIS pixel shift holds in store.

Ugh..Im already running out of disk space on my working drives...need to come up with a better solution.

Anyway...this could be interesting.

C


----------



## usern4cr (Dec 4, 2020)

keithcooper said:


> Thanks much appreciated!


I went ahead and bought your e-book, Keith. I was impressed with the online presentation of your book, and would enjoy learning more about TS lenses. Since Canon is rumored to be coming out with a couple RF versions with them, it might be something I would enjoy (I've never done that before). So thanks again for having written it!


----------



## keithcooper (Dec 5, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Do you have a link to US sales of the book to see US prices, etc?
> Or do you not sell to the US?
> 
> Looks and sounds like an interesting book indeed.
> ...


Thanks - The (paper) book is not listed on Amazon.com as being available until next June I'm afraid. The UK publishers will ship overseas https://crowood.com/faq.asp 

My direct involvement with the book ended at proofreading, but I will ask the next week about sales

If you're curious about tilt/shift, I've just finished a review of the Laowa 15mm shift lens on my 5Ds and RP (with a brief comparison with the TS-E17)








Review of the Laowa 15mm f4.5 Zero-D Shift lens for full frame cameras


Keith Cooper reviews the Laowa 15mm f4.5 Zero-D Shift lens. Fully manual lens with ±11mm of shift in any direction. Canon mount option tested




www.northlight-images.co.uk


----------



## Absolutic (Dec 5, 2020)

This would be perfect for me. Using R5 now with 100-500RF. I love to shoot birds and this will be like 2x converter without quality loss in terms of ability to crop which would be a dream for birders. I also don’t care about video, so this will do me nicely.


----------



## stevelee (Dec 5, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> I bought your book on TS-E . Very good I thought. It's hard to find such a comprehensive view of them elsewhere.


I have just started reading it. By the time I'm done, I'll want to rent another TS-E lens to play with. I've tried the 24mm and the 17mm. I know I want to get the 24mm again some day, maybe even buy one. But I'm thinking about a longer one for renting, probably a macro lens that can go to 1:1 with tubes. Perhaps the book will help me decide what to rent next.


----------



## stevelee (Dec 5, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> The one feature that I (personally) would really like to see is "aperture bracketing". I like to take different aperture shots of the same thing and see which was best later in post. If they added that alone then I'd want to buy it.


I'm not too shy to ask a stupid question now and then, so this seems to be the time for another one:

What would be the difference with that from just using TV mode and a set ISO? Wouldn't that force the camera to use different apertures to bracket exposures? I've not tried that to see why it wouldn't work. I have always just used AV and changed manually between shots.


----------



## usern4cr (Dec 5, 2020)

W


stevelee said:


> I'm not too shy to ask a stupid question now and then, so this seems to be the time for another one:
> 
> What would be the difference with that from just using TV mode and a set ISO? Wouldn't that force the camera to use different apertures to bracket exposures? I've not tried that to see why it wouldn't work. I have always just used AV and changed manually between shots.


I just tried it, and it works! Woo-hoo!!! 
I don't know why I never thought of that before (well, probably because I'm a lot 'denser' than I thought  ).
Thank you for this suggestion. You've just made my day!!! 

Oh Wait, ... It's not quite what I had in mind.
It changes the aperture only in the bracketing, so it changes the exposure in each (yes, since that's the only way I know how to force it to take the different brackets).
I didn't want it to change the exposure, I just wanted it to change the speed(or ISO) and aperture both to give the same exposure.
I wonder if there's another way to do that?


----------



## Greywind (Dec 5, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Will be interesting to see how this one shapes up. I am not as concerned about the IBIS and focusing system as most of the work I do with the 5DSR is on tripod and shutter release (live view). My questions will have to do with higher ISO noise for night photography and lens ability to resolve to this high of resolution. Will be a killer landscape camera if the DR keeps up with the R5 and any ISO noise is tame.
> 
> Will also be interesting to see how if they improve the EVF for night photography (or if they can). It is still one of main reasons I like the OVF on my 5DSR.


I recall there is an article of Lensrental about which lenses could perform well on super high pixel cameras. Surprisingly not all top lenses doing well. You might want to dig the blogs of Lensrental.


----------



## WANABENDER (Dec 5, 2020)

patiently/ not patiently waiting for more info on this camera. this will be the camera that either keeps me using canon or switch to fuji gfx system. pixel shift is pretty meh after seeing the results of the gfx 100. it almost seems like more work and too narrow of application than its worth. give me great IQ, impressive DR, low noise and the ability to hike into the back country and not worry about light rain or melting snow from trees. not worried about size or weight. I currently hike with a 1ds mark iii so anything they make now will be lighter. lets get this thing moving already


----------



## stevelee (Dec 5, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> W
> 
> Well, I'll be damned! It WORKS!
> I just tried it, and it works! Woo-hoo!!!
> ...


Oh, well. Just use my low tech version of AV mode and change aperture between shots. On my 6D2 that is just a turn of the top wheel, 1/3 stop per click in that mode, so no trouble really,


----------



## MrToes (Dec 6, 2020)

slclick said:


> This might be the death knell for my 5D3.


If it's a High MP and Pixel Shift model, it will me retirement time for my 5D3's


----------



## Antono Refa (Dec 6, 2020)

What's pixel shift *like* feature? Is Canon going to achieve higher than sensor's resolution some other way?


----------



## usern4cr (Dec 6, 2020)

stevelee said:


> Oh, well. Just use my low tech version of AV mode and change aperture between shots. On my 6D2 that is just a turn of the top wheel, 1/3 stop per click in that mode, so no trouble really,


I guess I'll go back to my old way: I use AV mode with a set ISO and -2/-1/0 EV bracket for every press-and-hold of the button and pick the best one in post. I can change the aperture dial and repeat that a few times to get aperture bracketing. It'd sure be nice if Canon allowed aperture-bracketing in the future, and even better if they allowed dual bracketing, so a single button press (preferable to press-and-hold) would do all that for me - Yeah I know, "In my dreams!"


----------



## Maru (Dec 6, 2020)

How do you look at current 5dmkIV refub price of $1750..is this a good deal!


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## privatebydesign (Dec 7, 2020)

stevelee said:


> I have just started reading it. By the time I'm done, I'll want to rent another TS-E lens to play with. I've tried the 24mm and the 17mm. I know I want to get the 24mm again some day, maybe even buy one. But I'm thinking about a longer one for renting, probably a macro lens that can go to 1:1 with tubes. Perhaps the book will help me decide what to rent next.


I can’t say enough good things about the TS-E 50, absolutely fantastic lens and it takes TC’s with ease.


----------



## raptor3x (Dec 7, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> I'd agree. I think one of the biggest users will be landscape photographer. They are often people most likely to print and frame images. It's not bad technique to want high MP images. I love detail in images and would love the ability to zoom and zoom deep into an image and spot small details. This is probably not much use in a portrait when you often end up hiding detail (like imperfections). 300 MP might be overkill and files size a nightmare to manage but for me its an exciting development. I look forward to it.



Possibly, although landscapes tend not to do well with pixel shift modes. Subtle foliage movements and atmospheric distortions are enough to muddy the composite results, it can work well but it's often a bit hit or miss. Product photography and architecture tend to do best with pixel shift.


----------



## stevelee (Dec 7, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I can’t say enough good things about the TS-E 50, absolutely fantastic lens and it takes TC’s with ease.


What in particular? Why might I want to rent this lens rather than something else? What in particular would I want to shoot with it?


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 7, 2020)

stevelee said:


> What in particular? Why might I want to rent this lens rather than something else? What in particular would I want to shoot with it?


For me it hits a sweet spot in the TS-E range, it is stunningly sharp across the frame but still has some character, and it gives a great fov when shift stitched. 

Don't forget the biggest barrier for the EF TS-E's and the biggest benefit RF T/S's will get over them is the limitations of tilt with a small mirror box. Canon make longer TS-E's but limiting them to 12º of tilt seriously limits their effectiveness, 12º of tilt is twice as effective at 50mm than it is at 100mm yet the 50mm lens takes a 1.4 and 2x TC so you end up with three very useful focal lengths, 50/70/100 all with the T/S functionality. The longer focal lengths might be longer but they become less and less effective with the 12º tilt/swing hard limit.

I do as much as possible with it, from product shots to architectural exteriors and interior detail shots, to shift stitched landscapes. Heck I've even experimented on some handheld concert photography with it. Your imagination is the only limit with the lens.


----------



## koenkooi (Dec 7, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> [..]Don't forget the biggest barrier for the EF TS-E's and the biggest benefit RF T/S's will get over them is the limitations of tilt with a small mirror box. Canon make longer TS-E's but limiting them to 12º of tilt seriously limits their effectiveness, 12º of tilt is twice as effective at 50mm than it is at 100mm[..]



This is the reason I sold my TS-E 90 non-L, it was much sharper than my 100mm non-L, but for macro distances I needed more tilt than it offered. I'll make a note to rent the TS-E 50 next spring when the dragonflies are back again!


----------



## tron (Dec 7, 2020)

Absolutic said:


> This would be perfect for me. Using R5 now with 100-500RF. I love to shoot birds and this will be like 2x converter without quality loss in terms of ability to crop which would be a dream for birders. I also don’t care about video, so this will do me nicely.


Actually it's like a 1.4X converter: SQRT(90/45) = SQRT (2) ~ 1.4

Keep in mind that at that pixel pitch DLA will kick in at around f/5. (The DLA of 90D witch has a pixel size equivalent to a 83MP FF is at f/5.2) Still a reasonable distance from f/7.1 but it wouldn't take any teleconverter stellarly (you would have diminishing returns). But without teleconverter you would be OK (and a reason for me to get it too  )


----------



## stevelee (Dec 7, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> For me it hits a sweet spot in the TS-E range, it is stunningly sharp across the frame but still has some character, and it gives a great fov when shift stitched.
> 
> Don't forget the biggest barrier for the EF TS-E's and the biggest benefit RF T/S's will get over them is the limitations of tilt with a small mirror box. Canon make longer TS-E's but limiting them to 12º of tilt seriously limits their effectiveness, 12º of tilt is twice as effective at 50mm than it is at 100mm yet the 50mm lens takes a 1.4 and 2x TC so you end up with three very useful focal lengths, 50/70/100 all with the T/S functionality. The longer focal lengths might be longer but they become less and less effective with the 12º tilt/swing hard limit.
> 
> I do as much as possible with it, from product shots to architectural exteriors and interior detail shots, to shift stitched landscapes. Heck I've even experimented on some handheld concert photography with it. Your imagination is the only limit with the lens.


Thanks. I’ll try to get my mind around it. For one thing, since I got a FF camera, I haven’t used my 50mm lens at all. I used it a lot on the Rebel. I guess if I am shooting in that range, I use the 24-105mm zoom. I‘d use the prime if I want to shoot wide open, but the situation hasn’t come up in 3 years. The 85mm yes.


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 7, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> If 5D Mark IV sells then Canon will make 5D Mark V.
> That is how they roll.
> It makes no sense to discontinue making things that sell well.


And they'll keep making the 5D Mark IV for a good while. They've not sold a single Mark V. As you know it doesn't exist. Can't continue making what one ain't been making.


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## EOS 4 Life (Dec 7, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> And they'll keep making the 5D Mark IV for a good while. They've not sold a single Mark V. As you know it doesn't exist. Can't continue making what one ain't been making.


Mark V will exist in the future if Mark IV sells.
I did not use the word continue in my post.
Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have occurred.


----------



## AEWest (Dec 8, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Mark V will exist in the future if Mark IV sells.
> I did not use the word continue in my post.
> Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have occurred.


It is not so much about the camera, it is the mount that will prevent the 5d5. Canon wants to sell RF glass and phase out of EF. A new 5D5 will help sell exactly zero RF lenses.


----------



## Maru (Dec 8, 2020)

AEWest said:


> It is not so much about the camera, it is the mount that will prevent the 5d5. Canon wants to sell RF glass and phase out of EF. A new 5D5 will help sell exactly zero RF lenses.


exact point..they killed DSLR lineup to get more money from RF.... they will make enough profit before rivals get their equivalent RF glass


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Dec 8, 2020)

AEWest said:


> It is not so much about the camera, it is the mount that will prevent the 5d5. Canon wants to sell RF glass and phase out of EF. A new 5D5 will help sell exactly zero RF lenses.


Here is where we disagree.
Canon could not care less about the EF-M mount and still released M50 Mark II because M50 sells so well.
Canon's best-selling camera is the Rebel T7 so they made a T8 and T8i even though those are DSLRs.
They tend to make whatever sells.
They are a business.
They would rather customers buy a 5D than a Sony or nothing at all.
They can't force customers to switch mounts and still stay customers.


----------



## AEWest (Dec 8, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Here is where we disagree.
> Canon could not care less about the EF-M mount and still released M50 Mark II because M50 sells so well.
> Canon's best-selling camera is the Rebel T7 so they made a T8 and T8i even though those are DSLRs.
> They tend to make whatever sells.
> ...





EOS 4 Life said:


> Here is where we disagree.
> Canon could not care less about the EF-M mount and still released M50 Mark II because M50 sells so well.
> Canon's best-selling camera is the Rebel T7 so they made a T8 and T8i even though those are DSLRs.
> They tend to make whatever sells.
> ...


Well they did exactly that in 1987 when they switched from FD mount to EF. It was even worse then because there was no backward compatibility. They not only survived, they grew market share at the expense of Nikon.


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## Rixy (Dec 8, 2020)

I will be happy for three years with my humble 90D


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## Klas R (Dec 8, 2020)

tron said:


> Actually it's like a 1.4X converter: SQRT(90/45) = SQRT (2) ~ 1.4
> 
> Keep in mind that at that pixel pitch DLA will kick in at around f/5. (The DLA of 90D witch has a pixel size equivalent to a 83MP FF is at f/5.2) Still a reasonable distance from f/7.1 but it wouldn't take any teleconverter stellarly (you would have diminishing returns). But without teleconverter you would be OK (and a reason for me to get it too  )


Can someone explain more specifically how much the DLA in reality will affect the resolution with a 90 MP FF when you use f-stops above f/5?

For instance if using the EF 100-400 Mk II in combination with the 1.4X III extender, i.e. providing 560 mm/f8, 
as well if using the RF 800/11 ?

Will it actually mean that you should forget using the 800/11 in combination with the R5s?


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## privatebydesign (Dec 8, 2020)

Klas R said:


> Can someone explain more specifically how much the DLA in reality will affect the resolution with a 90 MP FF when you use f-stops above f/5?
> 
> For instance if using the EF 100-400 Mk II in combination with the 1.4X III extender, i.e. providing 560 mm/f8,
> as well if using the RF 800/11 ?
> ...


Zero. Diffraction is diffraction, it is exactly the same if you have 20mp or 90mp, the ONLY difference is that the 90mp resolves the diffraction better and sooner, but even then it will still retain more subject detail. A 90mp image will never have less detail than a 20mp image at any aperture value.


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## tron (Dec 8, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Zero. Diffraction is diffraction, it is exactly the same if you have 20mp or 90mp, the ONLY difference is that the 90mp resolves the diffraction better and sooner, but even then it will still retain more subject detail. A 90mp image will never have less detail than a 20mp image at any aperture value.


I mentioned diminishing returns if putting a 2X to a f/7.1 lens making it f/14.2 on a 90mpixel FF camera. That's all!


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## Ph0t0 (Dec 8, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Mark V will exist in the future if Mark IV sells.
> I did not use the word continue in my post.
> Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have occurred.



Exactly like the Canon EOS-3 and EOS-1V


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## tron (Dec 8, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Mark V will exist in the future if Mark IV sells.
> I did not use the word continue in my post.
> Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have occurred.


As MarkIV exists since October 2016 it's safe to assume Canon knows if it sells or more correctly if it has sold for 4 years. My guess would be a big yes (for Mark IV)! But Canon may have other plans for Mark V. We will learn eventually!

It would be best to know and plan accordingly though!


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## Klas R (Dec 8, 2020)

tron said:


> I mentioned diminishing returns if putting a 2X to a f/7.1 lens making it f/14.2 on a 90mpixel FF camera. That's all!



Thanks for your clear answer.

However, I am as well an amateur astronomer. If you look through a telescope you will seldom, even with an apochromatic objective (i.e. the best there is) get more details on an object if you magnify it by more than about 20X/cm the diameter of the objective lens due to diffraction starting to get visible.
I.e. with a 10 cm objective lens when you pass 200X magnification.

If you let us say increase the magnification to 400X , you will not see more details than with 200X, rather you will see less. The reason being that you do get a more enlarged view, but the sharp defined details you had at 200X are now lost into a more "fuzzy", unsharp image. Actually it can mean that you at 400X even lose details, e.g. let us say you are just only glimpsing a certain weak moon of Saturn at 200X, at 400X it may be very difficult to perceive it any longer as it has become even weaker as the same amount of light as before now is smeared out.

That was really my question as regards the R5s in combination with the RF 800/11. Will I only get the same amount of details as with an f/5 lens?
I.e. I will not get anything more as regards added details?

Thus no great idea to consider RF 800/11 as a smart extra investment??


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## tron (Dec 8, 2020)

Klas R said:


> Thanks for your clear answer.
> 
> However, I am as well an amateur astronomer. If you look through a telescope you will seldom, even with an apochromatic objective (i.e. the best there is) get more details on an object if you magnify it by more than about 20X/cm the diameter of the objective lens due to diffraction starting to get visible.
> I.e. with a 10 cm objective lens when you pass 200X magnification.
> ...


I didn't oppose. I just warned that you would not get the full advantage you could possibly expect. Just a part of it. How much I do not know.
My opinion: 800 f/11 in R6 (20Mpixel) very useful 800 f/11 in R5 (45Mpixel) just useful 800 F/11 2X : Don't know/expect a lot.
800 f/11 in a possible R5s (~90Mpixel) Don't know! 800 f/11 2X in the same camera: wouldn't bother. YMMV

The above are not quantified. There is a forum member AlanF who has made research and have expressed detailed opinions on many EXISTING combinations.


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## allanP (Dec 9, 2020)

Scary. A new developments are announced where the latest cannot be bought!
Even though I switched to medium format, I was ready to buy the R5 and maybe reactivate my work with Canon. Unfortunately, my dealer doesn't promise me a delivery until spring (Europe). How should I still want this phantom camera?
Something goes terribly wrong. Letdown!


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## Fischer (Dec 11, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> I can compose via OVF with my 5DSR better than with EVF on R5 when shooting Milky Way. There is enough ambient light to see through the OVF. Not so much the EVF. I need to use a flashlight to frame and check my edges on the R5. Not always an option when shooting at night.


You are doing something wrong. EVF has a huge advantage when doing astro.


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## Fischer (Dec 11, 2020)

6 years after the last revolutionary Canon camera - we can hope the 5RS will be yet another legendary Canon camera release.  

Have put my Canon 5DS/R and all my remaining EF-lenses on sale today.


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## EOS 4 Life (Dec 12, 2020)

Fischer said:


> You are doing something wrong. EVF has a huge advantage when doing astro.


I disagree but even if what you wrote is true then an EVF can be added to a DSLR whenever it is needed


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## Fischer (Dec 12, 2020)

Absolutic said:


> This would be perfect for me. Using R5 now with 100-500RF. I love to shoot birds and this will be like 2x converter without quality loss in terms of ability to crop which would be a dream for birders. I also don’t care about video, so this will do me nicely.


Yes, however it's more like a 1.4x converter.

Already using the 5DS/R I felt comfortable reducing my lens baggage when shooting for fun. Just put on the 35mm IS L II and still be confident enough to leave both the 50mm and 85mm lenses behind. 14mm + 35mm + 100-400mm and you can cover almost anything and still get very high IQ results. Love the flexibility. Really hope to see a fast 35mm R mount lens soon.


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## Fischer (Dec 12, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I disagree but even if what you wrote is true then an EVF can be added to a DSLR whenever it is needed


We can probably agree that no matter what a full flippy electronic screen beats everything else when doing astro...


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## Dragon (Dec 13, 2020)

Fischer said:


> 6 years after the last revolutionary Canon camera - we can hope the 5RS will be yet another legendary Canon camera release.
> 
> Have put my Canon 5DS/R and all my remaining EF-lenses on sale today.


Bad time to sell a 5DSr when Canon is flushing inventory. They will be worth more in 6 months. People are snapping them up at the current discount price and sitting on them to sell on fleabay in 6 months or a year for a handsome gain and I think they are correct. The 5DSr captures great images and that won't change because there is a new kid on the block. I have an R5 and will likely get the R5s, but not likely to sell the 5DSr.


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## Fischer (Dec 13, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Bad time to sell a 5DSr when Canon is flushing inventory. They will be worth more in 6 months. People are snapping them up at the current discount price and sitting on them to sell on fleabay in 6 months or a year for a handsome gain and I think they are correct. The 5DSr captures great images and that won't change because there is a new kid on the block. I have an R5 and will likely get the R5s, but not likely to sell the 5DSr.


I worried about that. However, (probably due to recent Corona payments from Government) all my EOS L lenses and the body were picked up within 48 hrs - even the big whites. The body went for the asking price of 1.050 USD within 4 hours after I put it up on Facebook. Only have my 70-20mm f/2.8 IS L II left. All lenses went for 75-85% of my own price except my two mrk III extenders which only pocketed ~60%. Interestingly not a single offer for the 70-200mm yet??? I don't get it - but not arguing the results.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 14, 2020)

WANABENDER said:


> patiently/ not patiently waiting for more info on this camera. this will be the camera that either keeps me using canon or switch to fuji gfx system. pixel shift is pretty meh after seeing the results of the gfx 100. it almost seems like more work and too narrow of application than its worth. give me great IQ, impressive DR, low noise and the ability to hike into the back country and not worry about light rain or melting snow from trees. not worried about size or weight. I currently hike with a 1ds mark iii so anything they make now will be lighter. lets get this thing moving already


Current Canon sensors are huge improvements on the 1Ds III. The gfx100 is very nice but nothing an R5 or 5D IV and a couple of stitch images can’t replicate.


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## Maru (Dec 14, 2020)

Fischer said:


> I worried about that. However, (probably due to recent Corona payments from Government) all my EOS L lenses and the body were picked up within 48 hrs - even the big whites. The body went for the asking price of 1.050 USD within 4 hours after I put it up on Facebook. Only have my 70-20mm f/2.8 IS L II left. All lenses went for 75-85% of my own price except my two mrk III extenders which only pocketed ~60%. Interestingly not a single offer for the 70-200mm yet??? I don't get it - but not arguing the results.


How much you are asking for 70-200


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## JohnC (Dec 14, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Current Canon sensors are huge improvements on the 1Ds III. The gfx100 is very nice but nothing an R5 or 5D IV and a couple of stitch images can’t replicate.



I would agree with this, I looked hard at the GFX100 but based upon the raw files I was able to download on the net I didn't see enough difference that making the move to a different ecosystem would have been worth it for what would basically have been a resolution bump.


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## cayenne (Dec 14, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Current Canon sensors are huge improvements on the 1Ds III. The gfx100 is very nice but nothing an R5 or 5D IV and a couple of stitch images can’t replicate.



Well....stitching together a few gfx100 images together is kinda fun too.

But oh man...I gotta start buying some new, larger hard drives.


cayenne


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## privatebydesign (Dec 14, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Well....stitching together a few gfx100 images together is kinda fun too.
> 
> But oh man...I gotta start buying some new, larger hard drives.
> 
> ...


I looked at the GFX100 pretty hard as I wanted to love it, and there is no doubt the camera is a ‘medium format’ game changer. But the truth is the sensor is a disappointing increase in size over FF and truthfully I am not rich enough to justify the investment for the amount of time I feel the improvements over my current cameras would give me an edge.


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## cayenne (Dec 14, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I looked at the GFX100 pretty hard as I wanted to love it, and there is no doubt the camera is a ‘medium format’ game changer. But the truth is the sensor is a disappointing increase in size over FF and truthfully I am not rich enough to justify the investment for the amount of time I feel the improvements over my current cameras would give me an edge.



I only got one because I lucked out and found a deal.

I happened to have some extra $$ I'd saved, and I found a gfx100 on sale at B&H for $2K off list price. Aside from a couple of the items in the box looking re-wrapped, this thing looked and acts NIB.
At that time, they also had the GF50mm lens on sale for like half price...$499.

I just couldn't pass it up. I also bought an adapter to use my EF lenses on is and the Metabones speed booster so that I can adapt my Hasselblad V system glass to the gfx100.

So, I had a lot of varied glass to put on the gfx all at once. It was $$, but I happened to have some cash set back and with this deal I could jump in with a bunch of lenses and get going. 

I later found a deal at B&H for a used gf120 macro lens...so,w with all that I'm set to do some interesting stuff with it.
It is pretty amazing. But again, I'd not be in it at fun list price either. I do read that Fuji is coming out with a new version soon with a smaller body more akin to the GFX50 cameras.

This really more than anything, is showing me one of the true FUN things with mirrorless cameras, is adapting them to use other lenses...vintage lenses that are often quite high in quality.

And while they won't be clinically sharp....well, that's not everything, and some great deals can be found on vintage lenses that have character and can give your images a great look. The price is right on many of these too.

And the mirrorless manual focus assist tools helps those of us with less that perfect eyesight to again effectively use manual focus lenses.

Anyway, this of course is getting off topic.

I'm still saving to get a R5 or might see what the canon mirrorless R1 type camera comes out looks like....but in the mean time, fun.

And while pixel super high rez images aren't for all shoots, they can provide some interesting abilities and fidelity for where they are appropriate.

C


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## Fischer (Dec 14, 2020)

Maru said:


> How much you are asking for 70-200


1,400 USD - selling in Europe.


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## tron (Dec 20, 2020)

I got RF 70-200 2.8L IS so I will also put my 70-200 2.8L IS II for sale sometimes. 
The RF feels and looks like a big toy lens!


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## Fischer (Dec 20, 2020)

tron said:


> I got RF 70-200 2.8L IS so I will also put my 70-200 2.8L IS II for sale sometimes.
> The RF feels and looks like a big toy lens!


Good luck! Mine went for 1,325 USD.


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## JohnC (Jan 4, 2021)

This thread has gotten kind of quiet over the last couple of weeks. For once I actually seem more discussion regarding M series systems  One of the changes this camera would bring about for me I think is a new direction on lenses. I have mainly used Zeiss manual focus glass for my landscape photography but with improvements over the last several years, and a new RF mount as well I might decide to change that direction.

As I get older the potential of walking around with 3 very capable (and much lighter) zooms vs. 4-5 metal primes is appealing to me. Particularly since the performance of lenses like the RF 15-35 seems to be so great (from what I've seen it may outperform the Zeiss 15 in the corners). That all translates to less weight, less fatigue, a smaller camera bag, less filters, adapter rings, hoods, etc.

While I don't suspect I'll ever sell my 5dIV or Zeiss glass and will still use it, I am sort of looking forward to having a smaller/ lighter kit to choose if I desire, with the added advantage of much newer sensor technology, and much more resolution.


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## usern4cr (Jan 5, 2021)

Since this thread is about the upcoming R5s (a future R5-ish version), I just thought I'd mention this: What I'd like to see is a R5a version with a 45MP sensor with red optimized for more H-Alpha sensitivity as a 2nd R... body. I'd think Canon would want to do this at some time since they did come out with a Ra. If they both came out at the same time, I'd probably choose the R5a over the R5s (but I'm probably in the small minority regarding that choice).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 5, 2021)

I expect that its a feature being planned. They will want new features to sell a next generation R camera.


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## bergstrom (May 17, 2021)




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## Sporgon (May 17, 2021)

I know that this is an old thread, but I don't think that anyone has mentioned that every digital camera can have pixel shift. 

Just use a non rock solid tripod ( or give the camera a knock between shots) and take four shots or so, the tiny movement will result in a pixel "shift" . Then auto align and blend the images in photoshop, and you end up with a much sharper, more detail image without the unwanted artifacts that pixel shift can introduce. Of course the same limitations exist as for the pixel shift function - subject must be still.


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## privatebydesign (May 17, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> I know that this is an old thread, but I don't think that anyone has mentioned that every digital camera can have pixel shift.
> 
> Just use a non rock solid tripod ( or give the camera a knock between shots) and take four shots or so, the tiny movement will result in a pixel "shift" . Then auto align and blend the images in photoshop, and you end up with a much sharper, more detail image without the unwanted artifacts that pixel shift can introduce. Of course the same limitations exist as for the pixel shift function - subject must be still.


Exactly the same basis for astro shooting, and noise average shooting, but you knew that....


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## Sporgon (May 17, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Exa
> 
> Exactly the same basis for astro shooting, and noise average shooting, but you knew that....


If you're on a manfrotto 058 hit it with a hammer


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## privatebydesign (May 17, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> If you're on a manfrotto 058 hit it with a hammer


I think you and I are the only two still carrying those darn things aren't we?


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## EOS 4 Life (May 17, 2021)

bergstrom said:


>


I like Tony and Chelsea but I do like it when he calls rumors leaks.


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## usern4cr (May 18, 2021)

It will be nice to see the R5s come out in a R5 style body (without embedded bottom grip). That will give us all a choice of a smaller camera vs a larger bottom gripped (R3) camera. Many have strong preferences for one or the other, so having both is a brilliant strategy.

I'll be one that will (probably) prefer the smaller R5s style body, but I'll have to wait and see what both have to offer before knowing for sure which I'll hope to get as a 2nd body. Until that day, I'll always be glad for how great the R5 has been, and will continue to be.


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## privatebydesign (May 18, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> It will be nice to see the R5s come out in a R5 style body (without embedded bottom grip). That will give us all a choice of a smaller camera vs a larger bottom gripped (R3) camera. Many have strong preferences for one or the other, so having both is a brilliant strategy.
> 
> I'll be one that will (probably) prefer the smaller R5s style body, but I'll have to wait and see what both have to offer before knowing for sure which I'll hope to get as a 2nd body. Until that day, I'll always be glad for how great the R5 has been, and will continue to be.


After nearly 20 years of gripped and then integrated 1 series, plus another 20 plus years of just gripped bodies, I am firmly in the R3 style camp


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## usern4cr (May 18, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> After nearly 20 years of gripped and then integrated 1 series, plus another 20 plus years of just gripped bodies, I am firmly in the R3 style camp


I've come from the smaller Olympus system before switching to the R5, so I had come to love smaller cameras & lenses.
If they had come out with more lenses and bodies with state of the art (albeit small) sensors etc, and stayed in business, then I might still be with it.
But they didn't, and so I switched. The RF lenses & R5 sensor & AF produce magnificent photos, so I'll accept bigger gear for better images.
When the R3 comes out, I'll give it a good look in hands (hopefully my local store will have one to show). 
It may be a good while longer before the R5s comes out to compare it to. When they're both available I'll choose whichever best suits me at the time - you never know?


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