# Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 8, 2016)

```
<p>Reference View is a new view mode available in the Develop Module that allows you to compare 2 different images in order to make them visually consistent.  This is helpful when making a group of images from a single event look similar or setting the white balance appropriately in mixed lighting conditions.</p>
<p>To get started,</p>
<ol>
<li>Go to the Develop Module</li>
<li>Click on Reference View.  Its on the Toolbar, and you may need to show the Toolbar if hidden</li>
<li>Drag and Drop your Reference Photo onto the left pane.  You can change your Reference Photo by either dragging a different image onto the left pane or using the “Set as Reference Photo” context menu in the Library Module.</li>
<li>Edit the active photo. Use the Reference Photo to guide your editing decisions.</li>
</ol>
<p class="p1">Click <a href="https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/applying-adjustments-develop-module-basic.html#reference_view">here</a> for more information on Reference View.</p>
<p class="p1"><!--more--></p>
<p class="p1"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/reference_view.gif"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-27592" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/reference_view-728x455.gif" alt="reference_view" width="728" height="455" srcset="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/reference_view-728x455.gif 728w, http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/reference_view-768x480.gif 768w, http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/reference_view-1024x640.gif 1024w, http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/reference_view-610x381.gif 610w" sizes="(max-width: 728px) 100vw, 728px" /></a></p>
<p class="p1"><!--more--></p>
<p class="p1"><strong>Performance Improvements</strong></p>
<p class="p1">Lightroom CC (2015.8) / 6.8 includes ‘under-the-hood’ changes designed to improve the responsiveness of your Lightroom experience.  You should notice improvements in image editing responsiveness when background tasks (such as Preview Generation) are running, moving files between folders, running catalog backups.</p>
<p class="p1"><strong>Fit/Fill Improvements</strong></p>
<p class="p1">You can now zoom to fit and zoom to fill.  Particularly when using ultra high-resolution (i.e. 4K and 5K) monitors, prior versions of Lightroom would not completely fill the Loupe window.</p>
<p class="p1"><strong>Additional Features</strong></p>
<ul>
<li class="p1">Ability to filter or create a Smart Collection for images that have Snapshots associated with them.</li>
<li class="p1">Export a Collection Set as a new catalog.</li>
</ul>
<p class="p1"><strong>New Camera Support in Lightroom CC (2015.8) / 6.8</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EOS M5</li>
<li>Fujifilm X-A3</li>
<li>Google Pixel</li>
<li>Google Pixel XL</li>
<li>Hasselblad X1D</li>
<li>Leica TL</li>
<li>Nikon D5600</li>
<li>Olympus E-M1 Mark II (*)</li>
<li>Olympus PEN E-PL8</li>
<li>Panasonic LUMIX DMC-FZ2500 (DMC-FZ2000 and DMC-FZH1)</li>
<li>Pentax K-70</li>
<li>Samsung Galaxy S7</li>
<li>Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge</li>
<li>Sony Alpha a6500 (ILCE­-6500)</li>
<li>Sony Alpha a99 II (ILCA-99M2)</li>
<li>Sony DSC-RX100 Mark V</li>
</ul>
<p>* denotes preliminary support</p>
<p><strong>New Tethered Shooting Support in Lightroom CC (2015.8) / 6.8</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>New Lens Profile Support in Lightroom CC (2015.8) / 6.8</strong></p>
<table width="647">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="176"><strong>Mount</strong></td>
<td width="361"><strong>Name</strong></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Macro Lens for iPhone6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Macro Lens for iPhone6 Plus</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Superfish Lens for iPhone6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Superfish Lens for iPhone6 Plus</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Tele Lens for iPhone6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Tele Lens for iPhone6 Plus</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Wide Lens for iPhone6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Wide Lens for iPhone6 Plus</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Macro Lens for iPhone6s (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Macro Lens for iPhone6s Plus (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Superfish Lens for iPhone6s (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Superfish Lens for iPhone6s Plus (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Tele Lens for iPhone6s (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Tele Lens for iPhone6s Plus (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Wide Lens for iPhone6s (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Apple</td>
<td width="“252”">Moment Wide Lens for iPhone6s Plus (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 12-24mm F4 DG HSM A016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 85mm F1.4 DG HSM A016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 500mm F4 DG OS HSM S016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">TAMRON SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 A022E</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">TAMRON SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 A022E x1.4</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">TAMRON SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 A022E x2.0</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">Zeiss Milvus 2.8/15 ZE</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">Zeiss Milvus 2.8/18 ZE</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Canon EF</td>
<td width="“252”">Zeiss Milvus 2/135 ZE</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Google</td>
<td width="“252”">Pixel (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Google</td>
<td width="“252”">Pixel XL (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Go Pro</td>
<td width="“252”">HERO5 Black (Linear FOV)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Go Pro</td>
<td width="“252”">HERO5 Black (Medium FOV)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Go Pro</td>
<td width="“252”">HERO5 Black (Narrow FOV)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Go Pro</td>
<td width="“252”">HERO5 Black (Wide FOV) (raw + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Leica M</td>
<td width="“252”">Leica SUMMARON-M 28mm f/5.6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8E FL ED</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 12-24mm F4 DG HSM A016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 50-100mm F1.8 DC HSM A016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 85mm F1.4 DG HSM A016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 500mm F4 DG OS HSM S016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">TAMRON SP 150-600mm F5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 A022N</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">TAMRON SP 150-600mm F5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 A022N x1.4</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">TAMRON SP 150-600mm F5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 A022N x2.0</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">Zeiss Milvus 2.8/15 ZF.2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">Zeiss Milvus 2.8/18 ZF.2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Nikon F</td>
<td width="“252”">Zeiss Milvus 2/135 ZF.2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Ricoh</td>
<td width="“252”">Ricoh GXR A16 24-85mm F3.5-5.5</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Samsung</td>
<td width="“252”">Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge Rear Camera (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Samsung</td>
<td width="“252”">Samsung Galaxy S7 Rear Camera (DNG + JPEG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Sigma</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 12-24mm F4 DG HSM A016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Sigma</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 85mm F1.4 DG HSM A016</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="“123”">Sigma</td>
<td width="“252”">SIGMA 500mm F4 DG OS HSM S016</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><strong>Customer reported issues resolved</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Released a new set of Camera Matching Profiles for Canon 5D Mark IV.</li>
<li>Improved support for Canon 5D Mark IV dual pixel raw images.  Please see this <a href="https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/editing-canon-dual-pixel-raw-cr2.html">note</a> for further details.</li>
<li>Lightroom would show an error dialog when attempting to open an image in Photoshop.  Please note that this only occurred on Windows and only when selecting “Open in Photoshop” as a Post-Processing item in the Export dialog.</li>
<li>Fixed issues relating to the Point Curve as reported <a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-6-toning-curve">here</a> and <a href="https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2218484">here</a></li>
<li>Fixed some memory leaks.</li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/fix-dropdown-menu-position-when-duplicating-smart-collections-sets">Library collection panel scrolled unexpectedly when you duplicate/rename/delete a collection set</a></li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-6-3-bug-problem-with-watermark-opacity-in-export-slideshow">Problem with watermark opacity in export slideshow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/adobe-lightroom-will-not-export-both-portrait-and-landscape-oriented-pictures-as-a-slideshow-video-in-720-or-1080">Will not export both portrait and landscape oriented pictures as a slideshow video in 720 or 1080</a></li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/slideshow-not-working-in-lr-5-7#reply_15550054">Slideshow not working, only getting black screen</a></li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-selected-published-folder-or-collection-is-not-deselected-if-a-folder-is-selected">Selected Published Folder or Collection is not deselected if a folder is selected</a></li>
<li>Background images in Slideshow sometimes appeared pixelated.</li>
<li>Allow image panning by holding down space bar and then swipe with two fingers when local correction tool (such as the Local Adjustment Brush or Radial Filter) is activated.</li>
<li>Resolved inconsistent preset sorting issue.</li>
<li>Resolved issues when importing from an Apple iPhone or iPad using USB.</li>
<li>Video files from Sony cameras were not being imported into Lightroom.</li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/opening-photos-in-photoshop-from-lightroom-using-edit-in-does-not-work-correctly-for-some-operations">Opening photos in Photoshop from Lightroom using Edit In does not work correctly for some operations</a></li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/map-and-web-modules-do-not-work-correctly-with-4k-uhd-monitor">Map and Web modules do not work correctly with 4K UHD monitor</a></li>
<li><a href="https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/sort-by-capture-time-5gbguiycaa101">Sort by capture time doesn’t always work on 2015.7 / 6.7</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Installation Instructions</strong></p>
<p>Please select Help > Updates to use the update mechanism in the Creative Cloud app.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## lw (Dec 8, 2016)

no update available yet. Presumably it will come on line later

website still doesn't mention it https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/photoshop-lightroom/features.html


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## niels123 (Dec 8, 2016)

lw said:


> no update available yet. Presumably it will come on line later
> 
> website still doesn't mention it https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/photoshop-lightroom/features.html



I could simply click "Check for App Updates" in the creative cloud window and then the update appeared


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## lw (Dec 8, 2016)

niels123 said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > no update available yet. Presumably it will come on line later
> ...



Not for me. As an LR user that was obviously the first thing I tried.

Probably regional. The UK website still has no mention of it, and updates perhaps not available till tomorrow


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## steliosk (Dec 9, 2016)

Reference View like dehaze doesn't work on standalone 6.8 version


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## AvTvM (Dec 9, 2016)

201*5*.8 ... really? or 2016.8?


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## Chaitanya (Dec 9, 2016)

Still even after update LR crashes like crazy, even while moving between modules Lr keeps crashing. Adobe has fucked up Lightroom and thanks to CC dont seem to be too keen on keeping offline software in works for far too long. Soon it will be Adios Adobe and hello On1.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 9, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> Still even after update LR crashes like crazy, even while moving between modules Lr keeps crashing. Adobe has F_____ up Lightroom and thanks to CC dont seem to be too keen on keeping offline software in works for far too long. Soon it will be Adios Adobe and hello On1.



Its never crashed for me in the past two years. 

Don't blame Adobe for your computer issue.


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## Maiaibing (Dec 9, 2016)

Reference view seems moderately useful, however this will be nice to have fixed:

"Map and Web modules do not work correctly with 4K UHD monitor"

OK, so you get the top cpu/motherboard combo, install an insanely expensive graphics card to enjoy an equally overpriced 4K view of your 5DSR pictures - and then this... 

Was driving me crazy until I found out it was a bug.


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## heineg (Dec 9, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Still even after update LR crashes like crazy, even while moving between modules Lr keeps crashing. Adobe has F_____ up Lightroom and thanks to CC dont seem to be too keen on keeping offline software in works for far too long. Soon it will be Adios Adobe and hello On1.
> ...



I updated last night and had two crashes, when moving between modules. Running CC version and never had crashes before


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## wockawocka (Dec 9, 2016)

Trying to work out what this is: Released a new set of Camera Matching Profiles for Canon 5D Mark IV.

But for reference the below image is Raw to jpg with no adjustments just the Landscape profile appled.

Left is DPP, right is Lightroom CC2015.8


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## Chaitanya (Dec 9, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Still even after update LR crashes like crazy, even while moving between modules Lr keeps crashing. Adobe has F_____ up Lightroom and thanks to CC dont seem to be too keen on keeping offline software in works for far too long. Soon it will be Adios Adobe and hello On1.
> ...



Its not just me but also many of my friends have been complaining of same issue. Also I have Intel 6 core CPU, 32Gigs of Ram, 1TB SSd and 2*4TB HDDs in RAID 1(where I keep my photos/videos) and Nvidia GTX 970. I dont think my PC should be cause of concern right now.


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## wockawocka (Dec 9, 2016)

The problem I suffer with on Lightroom is that when running multiple exports at the same time or even on it's own it doesn't use the full capacity of the cpu.

Using lightroom 5 though it does. So I now default to that if I'm exporting different versions of the same image as it's almost twice as fast.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 9, 2016)

I'm having persistent issues with the sliders lagging and also breaking up of the image in the Develop module...Been going on for most of this year, even with NVidia drivers updated...

But I doubt Adobe techs are reading this thread!

Best post in their forums.


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## LDS (Dec 9, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Its never crashed for me in the past two years.
> ...



Rarely crashes are due to hardware issues (unless the hardware is really faulty - it may happen more often with cheap components - or used beyond specs, i.e. extreme overclocking), most often are due to software issues. There's a lot of bad software around (especially on Windows) that will create issue when installed, and sometimes even when removed (I recently encountered an antivirus that re-routed some system functions to inspect other applications using them, but when removed didn't restored them correctly...). Unluckily, anti-piracy software can sometimes lead to issues as well.

I have a policy of keeping the PC I use for important tasks as cleaner as possible. Only the software needed for such tasks, and little else. This way crashes on that system are very, very rare.

It is also important to keep the system up-to-date. I guess Adobe doesn't test on systems which are not (at least, I hope).


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## privatebydesign (Dec 9, 2016)

I downloaded last night and played with the 'reference mode' and think it is fantastic. I know in six months I'll wonder how I ever lived without it, best part I have seen so far is that the cursor has two values, one from each image, now that is super useful. Great addition to the program.

I have never had crashing issues.

For those unhappy with Adobe, leave, they really don't care and you have several good viable options now that don't involve subscriptions.


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## AvTvM (Dec 9, 2016)

Adobe Defense League in full swing. 

NO, we have PAID for our Adobe products. We don't have to LEAVE, we have every RIGHT to DEMAND proper and decent products and service from our software supplier Adobe. Unfortunately they seem neither able nor willing to get their act together with LR.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 9, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Adobe Defense League in full swing.
> 
> NO, we have PAID for our Adobe products. We don't have to LEAVE, we have every RIGHT to DEMAND proper and decent products and service from our software supplier Adobe. Unfortunately they seem neither able nor willing to get their act together with LR.



No, you paid for this month, you get service this month. If you want more than Adobe provide tough, go buy On1, Capture One, Afinity etc etc.

Pissy little one man band photographers have never been a key market for Adobe and I see no reason for that to change. All they do is whine and bitch about what they are 'owed', meanwhile the true creative company market, the ones that actually pay decent license fees can't get enough of the Adobe love and constant upgrades.

If photographers were truly important to Adobe they would show it, but look at where the development goes, there are Suite upgrades nearly every week............


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## cayenne (Dec 9, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Adobe Defense League in full swing.
> 
> NO, we have PAID for our Adobe products. We don't have to LEAVE, we have every RIGHT to DEMAND proper and decent products and service from our software supplier Adobe. Unfortunately they seem neither able nor willing to get their act together with LR.



Yep..once they lock you into the "rental" mode...they don't need to care.

They have your money and have your work hostage....so, you just keep paying and live with it.

Welcome to the world of rental software.

cayenne


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## privatebydesign (Dec 9, 2016)

cayenne said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Adobe Defense League in full swing.
> ...



Not really, you choose to take advantage of the rental model or you buy other software, or in the case of LR you buy the stand alone perpetual license for $149 (at most).


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## LordofTackle (Dec 9, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



True, you have that option...yet! I doubt it will be around for much longer...
I really don't see why I should pay more PER YEAR for the rental license, than I paid for the upgrade of the standalone version. 
Point is, the rather incremental upgrades they have done so far, are really not worth the perpetual costs (at least to me), so there is no "advantage" of the rental model to me....

But, each to his own. 

The only reason to upgrade was that LR5 did not support my new camera body.


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## AvTvM (Dec 9, 2016)

"Service" does not mean buggy software. It is of no relevance, whether customers paid for this month or for the full year in advance (!) or purchased a perpetual license. 

Adobe owes us decent software and decent service. They are obliged to fulfill their end of the (rental) contract, once we have paid up. No matter, whether customer is a single individual or a large company.


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## 2n10 (Dec 9, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> Still even after update LR crashes like crazy, even while moving between modules Lr keeps crashing. Adobe has F_____ up Lightroom and thanks to CC dont seem to be too keen on keeping offline software in works for far too long. Soon it will be Adios Adobe and hello On1.



You need to keep your video card driver's up to date. You may also need to update the VC. Or maybe your computer?


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## 2n10 (Dec 9, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



My PC's set up is similar to yours and I have had no issues whatsoever with crashes. I am using CC.


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## yorgasor (Dec 9, 2016)

One feature I didn't see mentioned was support for Nvidia 1000 series GPUs. I just built a new system and put in a 1070, thinking they'll support it eventually. Amazingly, I installed Lightroom just as this release came out and my GPU works perfectly fine.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 10, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Adobe Defense League in full swing.
> ...



You do work for Adobe.

Or you have especially bad indigestion.

Happy holidays, pissy cat. :


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## privatebydesign (Dec 10, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



;D Neither......

I believe I am pragmatic and live in a world where my opinion is worth zero to everybody apart from a small number of customers. I know I will never impact decisions made by multinational corporations so I am happy to purchase what they make if it suits my needs, and not give them anything if they don't. I am still shooting with 1DS MkIII's because, for my uses, I haven't been offered a compelling enough improvement/value option, yet I got the 11-24 on release because it did. Again, for my uses, Adobe CC Photographers Suite is good value and worthwhile, I understand if it isn't for others, but do look at the reality we live in when you don't like the choices you are offered. Adobe is and always has been primarily a business software supplier, that isn't changing.

That might make me sound like a Grinch on occasions, but I'd rather live in this reality than be a Mr Shouty who thinks if they shout the same thing enough times to people who have no say on the decision they will magically get what they say they want.


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## Gongedan (Dec 11, 2016)

I think that reference mode is a great addition, was waiting for sth like this for some time. You could do sth similar before with the "second screen" button, but the new implementation is much easier.
However, new version doesn't seem to be so stable yet, in one day of usage I had three crashes that needed a restart of lightroom. With the old version, I can't remeber it ever crashed (I'm on an iMac late 2013).


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## YuengLinger (Dec 11, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Still not sure why you feel it your duty to defend Adobe, but, whether you believe it or not, forums and social media have a part in allowing consumers to express opinions, raise concerns, and find others with similar difficulties when things are going wrong. One voice in one forum certainly doesn't get attention, but an aggregate of complaints leads companies paying attention to make corrections.

You really think companies, governments, politicians, celebrities live in a vacuum? Maybe they respond slowly, or too little, or wrongly, but consumers have voices, and the internet provides platforms on which we shout.

On a more serious note, I'm very glad your digestion is fine! Happy holidays, PBD!


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## privatebydesign (Dec 12, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > YuengLinger said:
> ...



I don't feel it my duty to defend Adobe, I do think it has some value pointing out the disconnect between what some of us think we are "owed" and the actual stated beliefs of the companies we believe "owe" us whatever it might be.

First off, the subscription model is business orientated, it was never designed to be a popular home/hobbyist choice, but to protect the business sales model the perpetual license had to be blocked. Anybody in business that uses Adobe products is financially better off with the subscription model, from a tax and payment structure point of view businesses would far rather pay a nominal monthly lease than have to purchase a license every 18 months.

Adobe are and always have been and see themselves as a business software supplier. Sure they have discount programs for education in the hopes that creatives carry that program knowledge through and end up working in an Adobe software environment, but that discounted feeder program has always had a sound financial cost benefit analysis behind it. That so many individuals have jumped on the bandwagon and used Adobe products for their home/hobby needs is pretty much irrelevant to Adobe. 

Photoshop is a mature product, there really isn't a whole lot more places it can go and as the pixel editing core of the Suite it is pretty much complete. Support for new cameras will always require ACR updates. Lightroom is nothing more than a database built on the side of the ACR module, Bridge is considerably more powerful than LightRoom as a database and is much better integrated into the Suite.

Given these realities I don't understand what people think screaming and shouting will accomplish, it's like shouting outside a nightclub where you don't want to pay the price of admission and they are playing music you don't like anyway. The shouting isn't going to make them change the music, their clientele like the playlist and are happy with the membership fee!


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## AvTvM (Dec 12, 2016)

i will think of adobe now every time i pass one of the many formerly popular and roaring night clubs and bars that are bankrupt and closed now, because they got out of touch with their clients, they did not play the music we wanted to hear, asked too high admission fees and prices for drinks, and had too arrogant doormen during their heyday.

nobody would have any issue with adobe offering a subscription model for those who prefer it - alongside a fair perpetual license for those who prefer that. moving to (essentially) "subscription only" has solely been to the short-term (!) advantage of adobe and is rightfully pissing off many existing and potential customers. they are on the active lookout for alternatives now and will find them.

in my case, as soon as my LR 5 perpetual license does not support raws from my next camera(s). expected by mid 2017. 

and btw, around the world, "creative industry" is made up of only very few larger companies and an overwhelming majority of small businesses and single entrepreneurs/self-employed professionals. adobe will get punished for their arrogance. especially when their core product ps is mature and fairly capable but also bogged down by a way too complex, unintuitive 1980s style user interface and resource hogging, performance-killing and increasingly error prone "spaghetti code".


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## iKenndac (Dec 12, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> _The exact same rant that's been posted thousands of times before about Adobe's subscription_



I see a huge amount of complaining online about Adobe's model, but not a lot of action. 

Adobe doesn't care in the _slightest_ about people complaining on photography forums. Vote with your wallet — Capture One supports the EOS M5, and can be bought standalone. I've been using it for nearly a year, and I love it.


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## AvTvM (Dec 12, 2016)

Adobe does care. Any company cares about negative vibes in social media and forums. Our justified rants here HURT Adobe and their reputation directly. Even though the impact may not be felt or reflected in profits immediately. 

I will evaluatem, once I have to - once I buy my next camera, possibly EOS M5 around mid-2017. Maybe I just go back to DPP, since it offers the best RAW converter for Canon files and by now it has most of the features I want and need. C1Pro is also a candidate, so is ON1 and Affinity Photo. Adobe will lose many customers like me. They may not care now, but they will cry after us when it is too late and their market share has plummeted.


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## Otara (Dec 12, 2016)

Im interested in Affinity - but they havent offered a trial mode for Windows that I can find.


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## iKenndac (Dec 12, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Adobe does care. Any company cares about negative vibes in social media and forums. Our justified rants here HURT Adobe and their reputation directly. Even though the impact may not be felt or reflected in profits immediately.



At the beginning, yes. But the same group of photographers ranting on and on inside the echo chamber of a forum doesn't do the damage you think it does. Adobe is a corporation, and just like any other, the only thing that matters is the bottom line. Crying and whinging while continuing to pay Adobe money does nothing. 



AvTvM said:


> They may not care now, but they will cry after us when it is too late and their market share has plummeted.



Exactly — they will care when they start to lose money. Not before.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 12, 2016)

iKenndac said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Adobe does care. Any company cares about negative vibes in social media and forums. Our justified rants here HURT Adobe and their reputation directly. Even though the impact may not be felt or reflected in profits immediately.
> ...



Yes, and they do not and never have seen the home/hobbyist market as one they are particularly interested in. They don't care about perpetual license because they decided it was not good for their business model, they have been proven right. Four years ago Adobe were in serious trouble, their business model just wasn't working with unpredictable revenue streams and hard to manage releases, not any longer, their market capital has tripled in five years, they are not hurting, they are not listening to you, they don't give a shit. They are listening to their core customers, the creative business users, they are constantly updating the suite in ways that make a difference to those users, mobile, cross platform integration, building apps, making cross platform websites and media, video, vector graphics etc etc etc.

Again, you are shouting outside a nightclub to change the music, the DJ doesn't care, he cares about the people who are paying to stay inside the club and their friends who also like the music and see the value for them.


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## cayenne (Dec 12, 2016)

LordofTackle said:


> True, you have that option...yet! I doubt it will be around for much longer...
> I really don't see why I should pay more PER YEAR for the rental license, than I paid for the upgrade of the standalone version.
> Point is, the rather incremental upgrades they have done so far, are really not worth the perpetual costs (at least to me), so there is no "advantage" of the rental model to me....
> 
> ...


Does anyone have any indication if the next version of LR will offer a stand alone license?

I'm on LR5 right now and still happy with it, but wondering if I should soon consider getting LR6 standalone, on the change that when LR7 comes out, it won't be offered with a stand alone license?

C


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## AvTvM (Dec 12, 2016)

cayenne said:


> Does anyone have any indication if the next version of LR will offer a stand alone license?
> 
> I'm on LR5 right now and still happy with it, but wondering if I should soon consider getting LR6 standalone, on the change that when LR7 comes out, it won't be offered with a stand alone license?



I have not read anything re. LR 7 availability as standalone or subscription only. But there is no risk to wait and see. Should Adobe go to subscription only for LR there will still be perpetual licenses of LR 6 available. Adobe cannot pull them from the market within seconds or even days. One more advantage compared to subscription model.


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## Keith_Reeder (Dec 12, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Adobe does care.


_Clearly_ it does not. 

By your own histrionic logic, if it _did_ care, it would never have inflicted the deep personal hurt on you that you're having this monumentally infantile hissy-fit about.

Oh - and "being satisfied with Adobe's offerings" (including the subscription model) _is not_, in any universe, synonymous with being an "Adobe defender" (any more than liking Canon cameras makes someone a Canon defender).

Can you seriously not see the difference? 

Maybe if you stopped taking personal offence at every last thing that happens to disagree with your narrow world view, you'd spend less time seeing conspiracy theories everywhere.


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## Keith_Reeder (Dec 12, 2016)

Otara said:


> Im interested in Affinity - but they havent offered a trial mode for Windows that I can find.


The trial will be available in a couple of weeks - but they had a beta programme running for a while before Affinity 1.5 for Windows was released.

And it's _excellent_: so much so that even though I have _no problems whatsoever_ with Adobe, its software or its subscription pricing, I'll be cancelling the Adobe Photography plan in the next couple of days. 

I rarely use Lightroom any more (mainly using Photo Ninja these days), and now I have something that does everything that PhotoShop does for me.

So I simply have no need to maintain my financial relationship with Adobe.

*And yes, I'm explaining this in plodding detail because I imagine that the Adobe-bashers on here simply won't be able to comprehend such a decision, coming as it does without the slightest bit of anti-Adobe angst...*


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## Keith_Reeder (Dec 12, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> i will think of adobe now every time i pass one of the many formerly popular and roaring night clubs and bars that are bankrupt and closed now, because they got out of touch with their clients, they did not play the music we wanted to hear, asked too high admission fees and prices for drinks, and had too arrogant doormen during their heyday.



Yeah - except that Adobe's running the one nightclub in town which is not only making money hand-over-fist, but which doesn't care if you _ever_ come through the door...


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## Keith_Reeder (Dec 12, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Adobe will lose many customers like me. They may not care now, but they will cry after us when it is too late and their market



Well done - you win the prize for being the millionth person to post of that meme: I've been reading it for years, and yet Adobe is making more money than ever.

You're simply not as important to Adobe as you apparently are to yourself...


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## AvTvM (Dec 12, 2016)

Keith_Reeder said:


> You're simply not as important to Adobe as you apparently are to yourself...



I'm rather glad it is that way. Imagine if it was the other way round. ;D




And very soon Adobe can kiss my a*s. bye bye LR. bye bye flash player ...  ;D


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## Otara (Dec 12, 2016)

Keith_Reeder said:


> The trial will be available in a couple of weeks - but they had a beta programme running for a while before Affinity 1.5 for Windows was released.
> 
> And it's _excellent_: so much so that even though I have _no problems whatsoever_ with Adobe, its software or its subscription pricing, I'll be cancelling the Adobe Photography plan in the next couple of days.
> 
> ...




Thank you, Ill take alook at Photo Ninja too, but a new take on Photoshop would be interesting to me. But more because I hardly use PS than to save money.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 12, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> iKenndac said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Took a while to recover my wits from the amount of illogic here! Adobe long courted individual, enthusiast photographers. They had their own line of Adobe published entry-level books, they partnered with Kelby for more books and for conventions...And then, with the subscription based model, suddenly lowered the price barrier for millions more "hobbyists." And Elements? Yes, it may have been a mass market stripped down version to satisfy the rabble, but it was also designed to give those more interested a taste, a tease, an example of what the full featured product could do. You make it sound as if it is an esoteric software for a select few photographers and photo-editors!

You can rewrite history, but anybody who has been using PS since the first CS version or before know the market was wide, varied, and huge.

I've complained about problems consumers face with the subscription model--and that includes the high-end customers. The subscription model has suddenly made the product affordable for millions more photographers, dabblers, but it also is a model for complacency on the part of Adobe, as fixes and improvement just aren't nearly as important when customers are locked in with the LR catalog (more brilliant marketing, great business move) and thousands of layered PS CC images that cannot be re-edited once the subscription is on hold. Sure, in a ruthless, cold-eyed business sense, this is all very effective, cheers...

When the subscription model started, you and your friends at Adobe were touting it as great for consumers. In the short term this was true. So why did you use to shout about how many more "dabblers" would be able to play with PS, but now insist it was never intended for a mass market?


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## tron (Dec 13, 2016)

Allow me to post an Adobe related technical question here in order to avoid creating a new thread:

Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?


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## privatebydesign (Dec 13, 2016)

tron said:


> Allow me to post an Adobe related technical question here in order to avoid creating a new thread:
> 
> Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
> Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?



No. 

However if you write your settings to sidecar files (XMP) then some of them will be honored by the next program.


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## tron (Dec 13, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Allow me to post an Adobe related technical question here in order to avoid creating a new thread:
> ...


Thanks for answering. Yes I assumed .xmp files. So honored by the "next program" means that these setting will be able to be imported/translated/whatever to future releases of DPP, DXO ? Even some settings and even in the future it's nice.


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## AvTvM (Dec 13, 2016)

tron said:


> Thanks for answering. Yes I assumed .xmp files. So honored by the "next program" means that these setting will be able to be imported/translated/whatever to future releases of DPP, DXO ? Even some settings and even in the future it's nice.



??? I would not have any use for files, in which my settings/edits on RAW images are only "honored" at 10%, 25%, 50% or 80% ... and the rest not. If not 100% are carried over, I have to start all over anyways. I would then prefer to start from scratch, with clean files. 

As far as I know, even simply converting native format RAWs (eg. Canon .CR2) into DNG format prior to applying an settiings will already lose some information. 

In effect, one loses all previous work and effort when switching from one RAW converter / image processor to another. That's one of the main reasons Adobe has so many people by their balls.


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## LDS (Dec 13, 2016)

tron said:


> Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
> Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?



It's not so easy, because each vendor may use different algorithms for image processing, which could be a company "secret" (or even patented). Some settings could be almost "easy", i.e. white balance, other could be much more complex, i.e. sharpening. Lightroom itself supports different "processes", because some algorithms have been replaced by newer ones, which don't work the same way. A different application may try to read settings and apply what looks to be deliver the same result, but IMHO it's just an approximation and a starting point, when possible.

That's why, IMHO, it's better to develop and refine a workflow with a set of well known tools, even if not the best in every feature, than jump from a tool to another chasing "perfection".


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## tron (Dec 14, 2016)

Thanks PBD, AvTvM and LDS for your replies.


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## cayenne (Dec 19, 2016)

LDS said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
> ...



I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?

Thanks,

cayenne


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## AvTvM (Dec 19, 2016)

cayenne said:


> I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?



Don't have a specific list, but any [proprietary] data fields in Canon's .CR2 that are not covered in .DNG format. 
Not sure, how essential the "translation loss" is, but I do recall conversion to DNG is not "lossless". One of the reasons (other than Adobe) I never went down the DNG route ...


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## Maiaibing (Dec 20, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?
> ...



Yup. Same here. Also, no reason to think DNG will laster longer than Canon's CR2. DNG cannot handle the 5DIV dual pixel. Who knows what else will come in the future? So you'll end up with a mixed bunch of file formets. What a mess. Overall, DNG conversion just adds a layer of complexity and uncertainty for no material gain whatsoever.


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## cayenne (Jan 6, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > cayenne said:
> ...



Hmm..well, I'd in the past year started bringing my images in as DNG's...so that while working with Lightroom, the edits I made would be kept in the DNG file along with the image, rather than having to generate and keep up with side car files in order to keep my edits if something happened and I restored from disk, etc.

I figured one file would be better than trying to keep up with two of them....or did I get something wrong there?

TIA,

cayenne


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## LDS (Jan 6, 2017)

cayenne said:


> Hmm..well, I'd in the past year started bringing my images in as DNG's...so that while working with Lightroom, the edits I made would be kept in the DNG file along with the image, rather than having to generate and keep up with side car files in order to keep my edits if something happened and I restored from disk, etc.



Someone likes to avoid it exactly because that means the next incremental backup would need to backup the whole DNG and not the far smaller sidecar file. If you only perform full backups on fast media is not a big issue, incremental backups on slower media could suffer from it. Rewriting a sidecar file is also quicker, but fast disks may make it irrelevant but for very large DNGs.


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## LDS (Jan 6, 2017)

cayenne said:


> I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?



May depend on the DNG converter used, and DNG format, but the real details only Adobe knows, if you use its converter.

Some specific Canon metadata may be lost. The RAW data are converted to the Adobe format, but that's AFAIK what happens anyway in memory when you edit a file in Lightroom (but the original RAW is never modified, though).


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## AvTvM (Jan 7, 2017)

LDS said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?
> ...



exactly. i also prefer to let adobe only create sidecar recipe files rather than converting my raws or messing around in undocumented adobe ways with them.


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## cayenne (Jan 11, 2017)

LDS said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm..well, I'd in the past year started bringing my images in as DNG's...so that while working with Lightroom, the edits I made would be kept in the DNG file along with the image, rather than having to generate and keep up with side car files in order to keep my edits if something happened and I restored from disk, etc.
> ...



Well, my problem was.....after using LR for about 2+ years, I found that it didn't automatically create those side car files...you had to manually click some buttons in LR to get it to generate them.

So, going forward I went with DNG.....and when I find time, going back through all images to try to find which ones need side car files generated.

My problem is too...I archived some earlier ones off the main disk...and they have no side car files and not sure what to do with those as they are likely not in catalog any more.

Hey...you have to start learning somewhere.



cayenne


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