# Newbie camera help m6 ii vs ?



## Kkeller416 (Apr 3, 2020)

Hello,
New to the forum. Thanks for any advice.
I'm looking to get my 15yr old kiddo a camera.
We don't know anybody in the hobby so I'm looking for advice here.

I was thinking of getting her the Canon m6 ii.
My concern is that it's a bit expensive.
I'm questioning if it's worth the expense for someone starting out... Will having something more versatile encourage use and ultimately have the ability to take better pics. Or could something cheaper be just as good. 
I know a beginner won't appreciate what a higher end camera can do but assuming she grows into the hobby will it be worth the expense?
I hate the thought of spending 300$ on something entry level that will be out grown shortly after learning the hobby then have to sell and upgraden anyways.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Kevin


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## old-pr-pix (Apr 3, 2020)

The m6 II is a great camera, but any modern camera can be an excellent platform to learn photography - even smartphones! It will really depend on what you think she might like to photograph. For example, if she enjoys soccer and wants to shoot her teammates she will need a camera with a longer focal length lens that can focus quickly - in most cases that precludes using a smartphone. On the other hand, if she just does selfies with friends she can use a smartphone or will need a camera with a tilt/flip screen. If she is serious about learning photography she won't mind a "bigger" camera, yet if she is self-conscious she probably would appreciate a smaller, more compact body. Post processing is another aspect to consider - in many ways the 'art' of photography is in the post processing these days. You also didn't mention video - is that a consideration?

If you are in the US, you might consider refurbished units to keep costs down. Check out: https://www.cpricewatch.com/canon-refurb-stock-tracker/ Either a two lens Rebel (T6 $320 or T7 $400) or a two lens M50 ($670) combo might be good choices. 

Photographers always wants newer, better equipment and more lenses. If she gets serious there is no perfect solution that will avoid the 'need' for future upgrades.


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## Kkeller416 (Apr 3, 2020)

Thanks. I was thinking of the m50 as a cheaper alternative to the m6. I just didn't want to be left out from the latest tech if it made that much of a difference.


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## SteveC (Apr 3, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> Thanks. I was thinking of the m50 as a cheaper alternative to the m6. I just didn't want to be left out from the latest tech if it made that much of a difference.



The M50 is perfectly good for a beginner; eventually she will find it has shortcomings. But the thing is, the list of shortcomings will be her personal list of shortcomings--not yours, not mine! At this time, she will know, better than any of us can, what should be in any camera she owns. So I'd say the M50 is your best choice for now. Later on down the road if she wants an M6-II...they'll probably be cheaper. (And all of her lenses will carry over.)

One thing the M50 has that the M6-II doesn't, is a view finder. Unless you want her to learn to always take pictures with live view, you'll have to add the EVF to the M6, making it even more expensive. (And honestly a viewfinder is something almost any serious photographer will want--I suppose there are exceptions but I'd say that's 95% true.)

My cell phone is rather old, so I may be making an assumption here about current cell phones, but a part of photography is the technical aspect of it, exposure, aperture, shutter speed, iso, white balance; and as far as I know cell phones don't let you control much of that (if I'm wrong--please disregard). If she doesn't care about that sort of stuff the cellphone works.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 3, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> Thanks. I was thinking of the m50 as a cheaper alternative to the m6. I just didn't want to be left out from the latest tech if it made that much of a difference.


With a M series camera, you are locking yourself into APS-C sensors. The camera has its own series of lenses, and those lenses will not work on the mainstream Canon bodies(You can adapt EF lenses to work with them). That means having to sell camera and lenses if you decide to take photography seriously and want to go to a full frame camera which is much more sensitive to light.

The M series is excellent and easy to carry around, but you should understand that the lenses only work with "M" bodies.

Since price is a issue, in the USA, Canon sells refurbished cameras with a full warranty. Thats a way to save money and still have a new warranty. You have 2 weeks to return the camera if you don't like it.

In that price range, look at the SL-3, it is also a APS-C body, it cost a little less, has the same features, and is fully compatible with all EF lenses which are everywhere, new and used. It has a extra telephoto zoom included. A cheap lens, but the price is right. The Kit lenses also limit you to APS-C, but you can find tons of used EF lenses everywhere that work great with it. I'd recommend a EOS-RP as a beginner camera, but they are a lot more $$.










Refurbished EOS Rebel SL3 EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM Lens Kit Black


Lightest, Smallest EOS DSLR Camera*.High Image Quality with 24.1 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) Sensor.Fast and Accurate Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye Detection AF.4K Video, 4K Time-lapse Movie.Vari-angle Touch Screen, 3.0-inch LCD.Built-in Wi-Fi®**and Bluetooth®*** Technology with Auto Image Transfer.




shop.usa.canon.com










Canon Refurbished Cameras & Accessories | Canon U.S.A, Inc.


Shop our selection of Refurbished Cameras. Explore specs, colors, and more from Shop Canon Business U.S.A., Inc. to find the right product for you.




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## old-pr-pix (Apr 3, 2020)

MSP's suggestion of SL-3 is a good option. I have the earlier model SL-2 which I find really fun to use. The downside is the EF lenses are larger/heavier for the same focal lengths; but as pointed out EF lenses would eventually fit more sophisticated full frame 'pro' bodies. In reality many folks are fully satisfied buying a camera with one zoom lens and never bother to change lenses. The need to learn the technical aspects of photography (apertures, shutter speeds, ISO, etc.) is something that manufacturers strive to minimize with all the automation being built into modern cameras. Yet, some smartphones and apps now allow manual control because 'real photographers' demand it. The art of photography (composition, lighting, etc.) can be practiced with any camera. For a 15 year-old I suspect the goal should be for photography to be fun and interesting -- any of the mentioned cameras should satisfy that.


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## SteveC (Apr 3, 2020)

The more I think about it the more I like the M50 for this scenario. For a new photographer the ability to see what the exposure will be like through the viewfinder could be a huge help. (You get this on any mirrorless.) If she subsequently wants to buy more lenses, I'd gently nudge her towards EF lenses for the reasons Mt Spokane gives (usable in a future full-frame purchase).

On the other hand there are some screaming deals on T6s and so forth on line (I think I saw $399 at B&H); you get the camera and two lenses for less than the two lenses list for--the camera is basically free. BUT those are both EF-S lenses, designed specifically for APS-C. You can't move those to an EF Full Frame camera. You CAN move them to an RF camera (with adapter), but what would be the point--the camera will just crop it anyway, you might as well leave 'em on your APS-C body.

[I'll explain my circumstances: At the moment, I own a couple of EF-M cameras (the M6-II and the M50) and a Rebel T6i. I want to go full frame someday. I've stopped buying EF-S lenses. I could use them on my future R body, but I can't see WHY I would want to do that; the R will crop them down, and at that point they might as well be on a Rebel, rather than the R. EF-S at this point gives me the worst of both worlds: the bulk of a full frame lens, but crop, even on a full frame camera. So I either buy an EF-M lens...or an EF (no S) lens I can at least port to a full frame when the time comes.]


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## Kkeller416 (Apr 3, 2020)

So I wanted to go with the m series cause of smaller size in general. I thought I would put a 50mm 1.8 lens on it and let her learn with that basic setup until she learns how to use the camera. 
Do the mounts that adapt m to ef work well?


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## brad-man (Apr 3, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> So I wanted to go with the m series cause of smaller size in general. I thought I would put a 50mm 1.8 lens on it and let her learn with that basic setup until she learns how to use the camera.
> Do the mounts that adapt m to ef work well?


The adapter works flawlessly. Keep in mind that a 50mm lens on a crop sensor camera will have the field of view of an 80mm lens. Great for portraits but not necessarily for street & landscape. I would ask her what she is most interested in shooting before committing to a single non-zoom lens. You may want to consider:
EF-M 18-55mm f/3,5-5.6 IS STM


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## Kkeller416 (Apr 3, 2020)

Thanks again it's hard keeping track of all this info. Outdoor walking around shots is mostly what she'll be interested in at the moment.
I found a kit *CANON - EOS M50 24.2 MP w/EF-M 15-45 & 55-200mm IS STM 2-Lens Mirrorless 
For $730. Thought this is what I would go with.*


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## ValleyofCarbon (Apr 3, 2020)

You can buy a used Canon XSi for less than 100$... use it for 6 months and by then she will know if its a passing fancy or a life long obsession.


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## Kkeller416 (Apr 3, 2020)

Yeah I thought of going real cheap. But sometimes cheaping won't get you the desired outcome... Which then you don't want to continue. And when I say you I mean me. I know with music gear and other electronics I wish I spent a little more for better functionality.


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## SteveC (Apr 3, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> Thanks again it's hard keeping track of all this info. Outdoor walking around shots is mostly what she'll be interested in at the moment.
> I found a kit *CANON - EOS M50 24.2 MP w/EF-M 15-45 & 55-200mm IS STM 2-Lens Mirrorless
> For $730. Thought this is what I would go with.*



If that's within your budget, that's an excellent start. The M50 is no slouch as a camera; it will do if she will do, for 95% of the cases.

To be sure those zooms aren't premium quality, but they will give a beginner a HUGE amount of flexibility to take pictures of a vast number of different things. Once she knows what she's interested in she can buy something with better image quality, perhaps "faster," more specialized, and of course more expensive.

(It's too bad they don't still make the 18-55; it was a better lens than the 15-45. But now, you won't find it in a kit.)


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## ValleyofCarbon (Apr 3, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> Yeah I thought of going real cheap. But sometimes cheaping won't get you the desired outcome... Which then you don't want to continue. And when I say you I mean me. I know with music gear and other electronics I wish I spent a little more for better functionality.



Nothing wrong with the Xsi, especially when beginning... with the remainder of your money by nice used glass. When/if she desires more you're already set. That M50 will leave most desiring more and then you'll need to invest in another system. Cameras are not where your money will be spent... lenses are whats going to drive your (her) choices in the future. EF-M lenses are not as desirable when looking at whats available and looking more and more like a dead end in the Canon realm.

on the other side... she going into a expensive hobby, I hope your ready for it  I bought my first Canon in the 80's and by the 90's I moved to Leica.


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## Czardoom (Apr 4, 2020)

I really do not mean to insult anyone on this forum - but keep in mind that this is a gear-head forum - and most users are obsessed with the latest gear. Unless your daughter is shooting professional sports and needing a camera that takes 10 to 20 frames per second - and needs the most sophisticated Auto focus system, any DSLR or mirrorless interchangeable lens camera made in the last 15 years will yield roughly the same results when viewed on a computer monitor or printed up to 8 x 10. Of course, going with an older used camera has the risk of the electronics going bad. But she will not be missing out on any tech that will matter to - not only a beginner - but anyone who is mainly interested in stills photography. For a while I owned the mirrorless M5, which is certainly capable of high level image quality, so your choice of the M50 and the two lenses will cover all she will likely need for the next 6 to 8 years. As others have suggested, the non-mirrorless SL series (they are up to v.3, but versions 1 and 2 are very inexpensive on the used market, as are the similar lenses in the EF-S line, used 18-55mm and 55-250mm lenses are very inexpensive used. I would certainly check the Canon refurbished store. A quick check right now shows the bundle you mention for $670 at the Canon refurbished store. The SL3 (a fairly new model) is selling for $440 at the Canon store refurbished. 

Another possibility with the M50 or any M series camera, is to get the body with the 18-150mm lens. It is still small and light and you have one lens that you can basically leave on the camera for all your shots. I used the M5 with 18-150mm lens as my main camera for a number of years. She will likely not need more than that, but if she wants a wide angle lens, the EF-M 11-22mm is an excellent wide angle choice.


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## Valvebounce (Apr 4, 2020)

Hi Czardoom. 
I appreciate what you mean, and I have been heard to say pretty much the same thing. 
My 8 year old nephew has been borrowing my EOS 20D, a very capable camera made until August 2006 so falls within your 15yr range, the last time we went out to shoot wildlife he asked after a while if I had a camera that would focus better that he could borrow!
Now I know that the camera focuses extremely well if you get one of the nine focus points on target, so I know the solution to his problem is AF point spacing, too much gap too few points, the next camera I have that has more points is the 7D with 19 points, what is more, I think this is the first APS C camera with more than nine points, the 750D and 70D are the first in their respective ranges with the 19 point AF system, the 1300D is still 9 points!
Unfortunately my 8yr old nephew is not mature enough to have charge of my 7D, there is still too much value in it, the 20D and 17-85mm lens only cost £50 as the seller thought it was faulty, well the lens was faulty, the ribbon for the aperture was broken, cost me £3 and a couple of hours of my time to fix it, a good portion of which was spent looking for the teeny tiny screw that I dropped!   

I think my point is that not all old cameras are suited to all genres of photography when the photographer is inexperienced, I can make the 9 points work, I think most adults can, I think many if not all children trying to learn, especially as they probably have experience with camera phones, will struggle!

Cheers, Graham. 



Czardoom said:


> any DSLR or mirrorless interchangeable lens camera made in the last 15 years will yield roughly the same results when viewed on a computer monitor or printed up to 8 x 10.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 4, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> Thanks again it's hard keeping track of all this info. Outdoor walking around shots is mostly what she'll be interested in at the moment.
> I found a kit *CANON - EOS M50 24.2 MP w/EF-M 15-45 & 55-200mm IS STM 2-Lens Mirrorless
> For $730. Thought this is what I would go with.*


A New kit like that sells for $829 from a authorized dealer. Beware of lower prices, Canon does not allow its dealers to advertise prices lower than that. It could be a gray market camera, I'd be wary of those, the sellers are not authorized, and while some are honest, if you want to return it because you don't like it, or find its been used, you may have to pay a big restocking fee. There are some sleazy lowball sellers as well, they are switch and bait. Turns out it is out of stock, or you need to pay $150 more for a battery and charger, that sort of thing.

The Refurbished kit sells for $669 from Canon, so they will fix any issues in the 1 year warranty period. They can't be told from new, in fact, they can be new but surplus stock that are put in a plain box to justify the low price.


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## dcm (Apr 4, 2020)

I've been introducing my 8yo granddaughter to photography for a few years now. We go on photo safaris together. She started with a old SD300 P&S of her mom's. She's been using my old S120 for a while. I'll move her to a hand me down M before long. The camera specs don't matter too much at the early stages since most shooting is done full auto and the images are going online. 

In the beginning it's more about getting out and shooting to learn about composition. So a camera that is comfortable in the hand and easy/light enough to carry all the time is the most important thing from my perspective, probably even for a 15yo. 

You didn't say what she is interested in. Is this intended to be a surprise? My daughter got into photography partly from involvement in the high school yearbook so I gave her an APS-C Elph and later an S300 digital. She was yearbook editor her senior year. She even did some child and family photography with a 6D until she got busy with her own kids and a business. Now she does product photography for her business.

I wouldn't worry too much about future proofing. Things get better every year. The time to upgrade is when they discover the limitations of their current equipment and want to go further. That's usually a few years, even for me. The limitations will be different depending on what she is shooting so it's hard to guess what she might need later. 

Canon Pricewatch has a good page to check refurb price and availability.
http://[URL]https://www.cpricewatch.com/canon-refurb-stock-tracker/[/URL]


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## Kkeller416 (Apr 4, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> A New kit like that sells for $829 from a authorized dealer. Beware of lower prices, Canon does not allow its dealers to advertise prices lower than that. It could be a gray market camera, I'd be wary of those, the sellers are not authorized, and while some are honest, if you want to return it because you don't like it, or find its been used, you may have to pay a big restocking fee. There are some sleazy lowball sellers as well, they are switch and bait. Turns out it is out of stock, or you need to pay $150 more for a battery and charger, that sort of thing.
> 
> The Refurbished kit sells for $669 from Canon, so they will fix any issues in the 1 year warranty period. They can't be told from new, in fact, they can be new but surplus stock that are put in a plain box to justify the low price.



Thanks for the heads up
Is it okay to post website? Seemed legit.



Product Search | Tri-State Camera, Video, and Computer



Good thought


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## old-pr-pix (Apr 4, 2020)

Lots of good info in this thread. Several mentions of Canon refurbished product. Be assured Canon refurbished is excellent product and outstanding value. Much of my gear is refurbished. You can not tell it apart from new. Plus it comes with the same warranty as new.

Ours is a very photography oriented family. Lots of 5 & 6D's, 60/80D's, several m4/3 bodies, and even a smattering of Fuji gear. Three years ago my now 10 year-old grandson started using my son's old 20D and various lenses including my old 70-300 mk I. He had great fun but we all quickly learned that an old smartphone was usually a better match to his interest - larger screen and more WYSIWUG. He stopped trying to shoot wildlife that was too far away even for 300 mm (stalking wildlife is not an easily learned skill) and started more of a macro adventure. Hence, I would not rule out the viability of a current generation smartphone - especially one with multiple camera lenses and manual adjustment ability. Your daughter would likely always carry it - remember the old rule, the 'best' camera is the one you have with you! The M50 kit mentioned is a fantastic choice (I don't have one, but it is functionally similar to my Olympus E-M5 II)... just encourage her to take it with her! Peer pressure is tough for teens; but, it will be totally ok if she gets to be recognized as 'the photographer' among her friends.


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## Valvebounce (Apr 4, 2020)

Hi old-pr-pix. 
You are not wrong about the peer pressure vs kudos, my nephew took some shots with the 20D of his mates at a local amusement park during their Festival of Lights event, his mates were all, wow that’s cool, is that yours, I told them yes it was his. His “street cred” went way up, they liked his photos too which didn’t hurt!

Cheers, Graham. 



old-pr-pix said:


> Peer pressure is tough for teens; but, it will be totally ok if she gets to be recognized as 'the photographer' among her friends.


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## Czardoom (Apr 5, 2020)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Czardoom.
> I appreciate what you mean, and I have been heard to say pretty much the same thing.
> My 8 year old nephew has been borrowing my EOS 20D, a very capable camera made until August 2006 so falls within your 15yr range, the last time we went out to shoot wildlife he asked after a while if I had a camera that would focus better that he could borrow!
> Now I know that the camera focuses extremely well if you get one of the nine focus points on target, so I know the solution to his problem is AF point spacing, too much gap too few points, the next camera I have that has more points is the 7D with 19 points, what is more, I think this is the first APS C camera with more than nine points, the 750D and 70D are the first in their respective ranges with the 19 point AF system, the 1300D is still 9 points!
> ...



Just my opinion, of course, but 9 points works perfectly well for almost all shooting. Turn off 8 of the points and use the center point and recompose. Still the best way, in my opinion, to get pics in focus. Certainly for an 8 year old - or a 15 year old - or in my case, a 62 year old. I doubt any beginner will be shooting wide open for general photography, or doing off-center macro, so center point would be the way to go , in my opinion. So much easier. No camera being fooled by off center objects that are closer.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 5, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> Thanks for the heads up
> Is it okay to post website? Seemed legit.
> 
> 
> ...


They are not a authorized Canon Dealer for mirrorless or DSLR's, perhaps for point and shoot, so a M50 you buy was not purchased from Canon by them, but from another dealer. Technically, that means no warranty, but Canon usually covers them if you have the receipt. With sales dropping, they may not. They are a authorized service center for Canon P&S cameras, they use that badge to fool you. Ask Canon if they are authorized to sell M50's and M lenses if in doubt. Note that the Canon badge for approved DSLR / Mirrorless cameras is different than for point and shoot.

The list of authorized dealers is here: Don't be fooled by the tri state dealer on the list, its in Ohio, while the one you linked to is in New Jersey.

You can search for online reviews, but beware that you can purchase good reviews by the thousand from China. I no longer trust on-line reviews.

I'd recommend any authorized dealer, or get a refurbished camera directly from Canon for less, and you will not have to worry about a warranty or a bait and switch experience.






Canon U.S.A., Inc. | Authorized Dealers







www.usa.canon.com


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## Kkeller416 (Apr 5, 2020)

So I ended up getting her a sl-3 with a ef s 18-55mm lens. 
Bestbuy priced matched Newegg for $549 
Thanks for all the advice. She's very excited. Taking it out now for a test spin. She has lots to learn now.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 7, 2020)

Kkeller416 said:


> So I ended up getting her a sl-3 with a ef s 18-55mm lens.
> Bestbuy priced matched Newegg for $549
> Thanks for all the advice. She's very excited. Taking it out now for a test spin. She has lots to learn now.


Good choice, and you got one from a authorized dealer. I had a SL-2. I'd start looking to a 15-85mm lens to go with it, they are a very nice match, and used ones can often be found on Craigslist for a low price. Its a lens that works for everything but macro and longer telephoto or low light.

Low light photography may be a area she will be interested in, a 60mm EF-s Macro works for both and is very sharp.


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## Kkeller416 (Apr 7, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Good choice, and you got one from a authorized dealer. I had a SL-2. I'd start looking to a 15-85mm lens to go with it, they are a very nice match, and used ones can often be found on Craigslist for a low price. Its a lens that works for everything but macro and longer telephoto or low light.
> 
> Low light photography may be a area she will be interested in, a 60mm EF-s Macro works for both and is very sharp.



Good to know, she definitely would like to do some night time shots.


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