# 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?



## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

I know that with two 600EX-RTs or one 600EX-RT + ST-E3-RT, that the off-camera flash unit has a button that can act as a remote shutter release.

My questions are:
1) Can you half-press the button to make the camera Auto-Focus, and then full-press the button to take the shot? 

2) If you hold down the button, can you shoot in continuous burst?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if the button on the 600EX-RT acts exactly like the camera's shutter button.

Thanks!


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## privatebydesign (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> I know that with two 600EX-RTs or one 600EX-RT + ST-E3-RT, that the off-camera flash unit has a button that can act as a remote shutter release.
> 
> My questions are:
> 1) Can you half-press the button to make the camera Auto-Focus, and then full-press the button to take the shot?
> ...



1) NO YOU CANNOT. It is a one press deal, if you are in AF and it can't acquire focus it won't shoot, but it is not a two stage press like the conventional remotes. There are no half presses, focus and shutter are activated together, it doesn't work like a shutter button, you can't acquire focus without taking a picture.

2) NO YOU CANNOT. One push one picture (or not if the AF was on and it didn't acquire focus).

Effectively no, it does not act like a regular shutter button.

I use this feature a lot and there are a couple of quirks, a 600 EX-RT has to be the trigger, the one in your hand, the ST-E3-RT cannot do the triggering so must be on the camera.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> entlassen said:
> 
> 
> > I know that with two 600EX-RTs or one 600EX-RT + ST-E3-RT, that the off-camera flash unit has a button that can act as a remote shutter release.
> ...




Thanks for the clarification. When shooting with a speedlight, what solutions do people usually use who need a remote trigger that has half-press AF shutter release? What I mean is that most of the wireless remote shutters I see require a receiver brick to be mounted onto the hot-shoe (and run a cable from the receiver to the camera body), but that means I can't put a flash unit on that hot-shoe.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

Also, does anyone with a Yongnuo YN622C know if the Test Fire button on those transceivers support the two functions I outlined in my first post (half-press to AF and hold-down for continuous burst)?


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## tphillips63 (Dec 4, 2013)

Canon Remote Switch RS-80N3 can do half press just like the shutter button but of course is a wired connector.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

tphillips63 said:


> Canon Remote Switch RS-80N3 can do half press just like the shutter button but of course is a wired connector.



I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find. Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about. What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find. Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about. What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.



My hähnel Giga T Pro II does half-press half press for AF, full press for release or continuous burst. It connects to the remote port, so while the receiver can be mounted in the hotshoe, it doesn't need to be (which is good, as that's where the ST-E3-RT sits.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 4, 2013)

In trying to help I don't understand why you are trying to do what you say you want.

You want a flash in the hot shoe and a two stage release for remote shooting, I understand that, but I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera, you either want a picture or you don't, it would seem to me.

So what are you shooting, what distances from the camera, and the environment, and why do you feel the need to separate the functions?

If you can fill in some blanks, so we know what you are trying to achieve, I am sure we can help.

P.S. My $20 Yongnuo RF-602's do wireless two stage remote shutter triggering, the button works exactly like a shutter button. You can mount it in the hot shoe or leave it hanging, like Neuro'sGiga T Pro II it triggers via the remote port so it doesn't matter where the receiver is.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> entlassen said:
> 
> 
> > I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find. Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about. What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.
> ...



When your ST-E3-RT is on the hotshoe, do you just have your hahnel receiver dangling from a wire off the 3-pin port or something?


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## jeremypark (Dec 4, 2013)

As the other poster says, without knowing the set up ( studio, outdoors, remote control helicopter) it's hard to give specific advice. Here's some ideas that might help ? 

Using flash to fire the camera could be done using a optical slave attached the remote trigger port. I use pocket wizards to shoot remotely, which allows me to shoot with no cords attached to the camera. Such as used in the shot attached to shoot all day long. If the lens is set to autofocus it won't allow the shutter to release unless the focus zone selected is focused, so no need to have the half pressed in that situation. You could also look at a optical slave connected to a pocketwizard also if you have multiple flashes. ( as a note* any pocket wizzard can fire a canon speed light remotely if attached to their Flex TTL5) 

You could look at software also if the environment is controlled. Capture one has the option to shoot remotely from the laptop. I have not tried it wirelessly, but often shoot like this tethered with USB. They have a capture pilot app that works on ipad and laptop that could help. You could research this. Also, note the Capture One Live View mode for realtime previews from another device. Without seeing a preview I am not sure that you'd know the camera was in focus anyway... if you didn't trust the autofocus.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera



Are you asking why having the ability to half-press a remote to AF is important? Well first of all, pretty much every wired or wireless remote has this feature (i.e. imitates the camera's shutter behavior).

If I want to shoot on a tripod (as opposed to hand-holding the camera), it's usually in scenarios where I want absolutely no vibrations whatsoever. That means no hands touching the camera. If you go through the trouble of carrying a tripod around the field and buying a remote control shutter to reduce vibrations, it kind of defeats the point if for every shot you have to first put your hands on the camera's shutter to focus and introduce new vibrations. Not only does that force me to come back to the camera before every shot where I want to engage AF (negating the benefits of shooting remotely), but I waste time waiting for the vibrations introduced by my hand to dissipate from the camera before I can trip the shutter. Remote shutter releases usually have the "half-press to AF" feature for these reasons.

People pay big bucks and go to extreme lengths to reduce vibrations. You probably have seen those long discussion threads about 3-legged vs 4-legged tripods. You don't buy a $500+ Gitzo, a $400 RSS ballhead, and a $140 L-bracket only to muck it all up by putting your hands on the camera every time you want to engage the AF.


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## rs (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > entlassen said:
> ...


If you're worried about vibrations caused by the very light receiver hanging from the port and swinging in the wind, you can velcro it to a tripod leg or mount:





Or if you get really anal, you can use the thread in the base of the receiver and mount it with a more solid option:




Such as clamping it onto a tripod leg:


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## privatebydesign (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera
> ...



The one stage triggers like the 600 EX-RT or ST-E3-RT will not introduce any vibrations whatsoever. You DO NOT have to go back to the camera for it to refocus on a different distance subject, if you trust it to focus where you want anyway.

My point is two fold:
[list type=decimal]
[*]What difference does AF via a one stage switch or a two stage switch make in a remote setup? The answer is none. The camera will AF before the image is taken using either.
[*]If you are doing this for ultimate stability and IQ then AF is a huge no no anyway. Live View 10x manual focus is the only way to go.
[/list]


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera
> ...



I suspect the basis of the question was, what are you shooting remotely that would require you to autofocus between each shot? It would need to be something where the distance is changing, but you would not need to change the composition of the shot. 

Note that if you're lighting the scene with one or more speedlites, you probably don't need to be terribly concerned about vibration - at full power, the flash duration is somewhere between 1/500 and 1/1000 s, and at lower power the duration is 1/20000 or faster... a little bit of camera motion is not going to matter.

In my case, the times when I normally need both a remote trigger and something in the hot shoe are when I'm taking portraits with myself in the picture. The light is coming from external strobes, subject distance is not changing, and I'm using apertures in the f/9-11 range. In that situation, AF between shots is completely unnecessary. 

To answer your earlier question about what I do with the remote trigger receiver when something else is in the hotshoe, I attach it to the camera's L-bracket (the part that isn't in the ballhead clamp), using the little SnapQR mounting accessories from RRS.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> What difference does AF via a one stage switch or a two stage switch make in a remote setup? The answer is none. The camera will AF before the image is taken using either.



There is a difference. In a one-stage switch, the camera will engage the AF and then immediately shoot. There is no time in between for the vibrations introduced by the AF mechanisms to dissipate before the shot goes off. In a two-stage switch, you half-press the remote to engage the AF, then you have the option of waiting for the vibrations caused by the AF motors to dissipate, and then you fully press the remote to fire the shot.


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## Swphoto (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> There is a difference. In a one-stage switch, the camera will engage the AF and then immediately shoot. There is no time in between for the vibrations introduced by the AF mechanisms to dissipate before the shot goes off. In a two-stage switch, you half-press the remote to engage the AF, then you have the option of waiting for the vibrations caused by the AF motors to dissipate, and then you fully press the remote to fire the shot.



And in this scenario you can't use manual focus when you set up the camera? Can you share a little more detail about the use case?


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

Swphoto said:


> entlassen said:
> 
> 
> > There is a difference. In a one-stage switch, the camera will engage the AF and then immediately shoot. There is no time in between for the vibrations introduced by the AF mechanisms to dissipate before the shot goes off. In a two-stage switch, you half-press the remote to engage the AF, then you have the option of waiting for the vibrations caused by the AF motors to dissipate, and then you fully press the remote to fire the shot.
> ...



There are many use cases. In the most basic example, where you're testing a camera body's AF capability, you would be shooting focus test charts on a wall to see how sharp the left/center/right AF points are. In this scenario, you specifically wouldn't use manual focus (since you're testing AF), and you'd also definitely require a good tripod. Any remote you buy would have to have a 2-stage trigger, otherwise you risk corrupting the test.

I don't know if you followed Nikon news last year and early this year at all, but they were getting terrible PR because a large percentage of their D800s had a "left-AF" focus problem. You had dozens of threads on DPReview and other forums with users doing the exact focus test I described above.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

rs said:


> entlassen said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yeah, having all that stuff clamped and velcroed is one way to do it, but I think you might be missing what I'm getting at here. The reason I was asking about the RT system in my first post was because I was hoping it would help me NOT have to carry all that other stuff. In other words, no extra receiver module necessary for a remote shutter release, and therefore no cord either; a double-win. I was originally hoping that with two 600EX-RT modules, that I could "cut out the middleman" and not have to even buy or carry around a "wireless remote + receiver + cord" combo, and simply use one speedlight to trigger the other. Unfortunately, I learned in this thread that the speedlight's shutter release button does not have the two functions I outlined in my first post.

Ideally, I would have one 600EX-RT (or ST-E3-RT) on the hotshoe (with either the flash turned on or off), and have a cheap trigger that sends a RT radio signal to the hotshoe unit to fire my camera. If I could do that, I wouldn't need to buy or carry around all that other gear. No receiver bricks, no wires, no velcro, no L-bracket clamps,...nothing! Wouldn't that be great? I mean if Nikon can do it, how much of a stretch is it for Canon to have this clean solution as well?

I did look into the Yongnuo YN622C and the cheaper YN603s, but in the end they are also "middlemen". The former does ETTL and the latter does manual, but neither is ideal because neither leverage the RT receiver that's already built into the 600EX-RT.


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## Swphoto (Dec 4, 2013)

I use this remote - should satisfy the requirements, but it would be 2 extra things to carry around. The receiver can sit in the hotshoe, but I just let it hang off the camera most of the time - it doesn't weigh much.

http://www.amazon.com/Satechi-WTR-A-Wireless-EOS-D2000-Compatible/dp/B004QDN2ZC/ref=pd_cp_p_0

Edit - looks like they've revised the receiver since I purchased mine, so it might weigh a bit more (or less) now.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

Swphoto said:


> I use this remote - should satisfy the requirements, but it would be 2 extra things to carry around. The receiver can sit in the hotshoe, but I just let it hang off the camera most of the time - it doesn't weigh much.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Satechi-WTR-A-Wireless-EOS-D2000-Compatible/dp/B004QDN2ZC/ref=pd_cp_p_0
> 
> Edit - looks like they've revised the receiver since I purchased mine, so it might weigh a bit more (or less) now.



Oh, does the picture on Amazon look different than the one you have or something?

Edit - The WRT-A's manual says the receiver use CR2 batteries, but I looked at some youtube videos of user reviews and some have receivers that take AAA batteries. I guess there are variations.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > What difference does AF via a one stage switch or a two stage switch make in a remote setup? The answer is none. The camera will AF before the image is taken using either.
> ...



I'd like to see proof of that, I have never heard of AF causing vibrations, never. The mirror, if you are not using mirror lock up, can cause vibrations at some shutter speeds, but not AF.

But, as Neuro points out, if you are using lights then the shutter speed, and vibrations, become moot as it is the flash duration that becomes your effective exposure time and that is fast enough to overcome any such vibrations.


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## entlassen (Dec 4, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> I'd like to see proof of that, I have never heard of AF causing vibrations, never. The mirror, if you are not using mirror lock up, can cause vibrations at some shutter speeds, but not AF.



If you can't see how the AF module in a camera, which is essentially a motor, causes vibrations, then I don't know what to say. You do hear it whirling away in your own camera, right? It's a moving mechanical part. It spins another mechanical part attached to it (the lens). Sometimes the lens isn't even attached airtight (e.g. 70-200 II's often have a tiny bit of play between the lens and body). There is friction, there is movement, and this movement comes in short bursts, disrupting the inertia of the camera.

Accounting for AF vibrations is standard procedure for people shooting test charts when not in manual mode. 
Many of the D800 users I referenced earlier had flawed tests because they didn't account for it and got false positives in their images. One of the reasons those threads were so long and numerous was because a lot of it was figuring out who did their tests correctly and who did not (and there are a lot of factors that can corrupt a sharpness test).

And yes, mirror slap can cause vibrations.


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## Swphoto (Dec 4, 2013)

entlassen said:


> Oh, does the picture on Amazon look different than the one you have or something?
> 
> Edit - The WRT-A's manual says the receiver use CR2 batteries, but I looked at some youtube videos of user reviews and some have receivers that take AAA batteries. I guess there are variations.



This is what my receiver looks like: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17pk3hn8p4l3sjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg


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## entlassen (Dec 5, 2013)

Swphoto said:


> entlassen said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, does the picture on Amazon look different than the one you have or something?
> ...



Thanks. Yeah, it looks different than the image being shown on Amazon; the cord plugs into a different location.


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## WPJ (Dec 5, 2013)

Check this out, at least you only need to carry the receiver 

Satechi Bluetooth Smart Trigger

Bluetooth smart trigger


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 5, 2013)

One-stage remote with the self timer set?


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## privatebydesign (Dec 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> One-stage remote with the self timer set?



Now that is a stroke of genius amongst the irrelevant drivel. I can confirm it works too.

P.S. I still haven't found the D800 focus threads where they specifically point to AF induced vibrations ruining a strobe illuminated test image, but I really don't care either.


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## entlassen (Dec 5, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > One-stage remote with the self timer set?
> ...



If you're going to resort to self-timers, then you might as well not even use a remote. Need to get into a group shot? Screw the remote, use the self-timer right?

Irrelevant drivel huh. You mean like that post where somebody demanded proof that a spinning motor causes vibrations?


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## privatebydesign (Dec 5, 2013)

entlassen said:


> Irrelevant drivel huh. You mean like that post where somebody demanded proof that a spinning motor causes vibrations?



No, I meant the post when a certified engineer asked you where there was proof that an AF motor negatively impacts image quality.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 5, 2013)

entlassen said:


> You do hear it whirling away in your own camera, right? It's a moving mechanical part. It spins another mechanical part attached to it (the lens).
> 
> And yes, mirror slap can cause vibrations.



I don't hear it whirling away in _my_ camera...but then, I don't use a Nikon dSLR. 

Lots of things cause vibrations, including the earth itself. They only matter if the frequency and amplitude are such that IQ is affected. I doubt that's the case for vibrations caused by the AF motor in the lens. 

It's well documented that the vibrations from mirror slap only affect IQ at certain shutter speeds. The effective shutter speed for a strobe-lit shot is fast enough that mirror slap has no effect. 



privatebydesign said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > One-stage remote with the self timer set?
> ...



Sometimes the simple solution is the best one. Not that I'm opposed to unnecessarily complex and/or expensive solutions...after all, I'm using $80 in RRS accessories (not counting the $250 L-bracket) to do a job that could be accomplished with a few cents worth of Velcro.


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## entlassen (Dec 5, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> entlassen said:
> 
> 
> > Irrelevant drivel huh. You mean like that post where somebody demanded proof that a spinning motor causes vibrations?
> ...



I agree. That post sounded pretty irrelevant to me.


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## entlassen (Dec 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sometimes the simple solution is the best one.



C'mon neuro, you know that any solution where you're paying money to get sub-optimal functionality is not the best one. Almost all dedicated remote shutters have 2-stage triggers and continuous burst capability, like a camera's actual shutter button. The original post in this thread was asking if the 600EX-RT's shutter release button also had this functionality, and the answer was no, and that's fine because that's not the primary purpose of the 600EX-RT. I just wanted to know if its button had that additional functionality as a bonus, so one could skip buying a dedicated remote altogether. Obviously nobody in their right mind would pay $1000 for two speedlights just to have a remote trigger, and then go even further and gimp themselves by setting a self-timer just because the speedlight doesn't have half-press AF engage.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> entlassen said:
> 
> 
> > You do hear it whirling away in your own camera, right? It's a moving mechanical part. It spins another mechanical part attached to it (the lens).
> ...



I can't forget your ST-E3-RT and 600-EX-RT to use as an optical trigger for the Einstein, that took the title of _"unnecessarily complex and/or expensive solutions..."_ 

I'd still like to see these D800 threads that definitively illustrate AF induced vibrations causing observable IQ degradation.


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## entlassen (Dec 5, 2013)

I'm scouting around for newer products and might have found a decent compromise:
http://flashhavoc.com/yn-622n-tx-first-image-emerges/

It looks like Yongnuo is going to release a newer version of their old YN-622C sometime later this month or early next year. The unit is called the YN-622C-TX and acts only as a transmitter which interacts with the existing YN-622C transceivers. The link above does show "Remote Shutter Release" as one of its new features, which the old YN-622C doesn't have.

So it seems to me the setup would be:
YN-622C on camera hotshoe
Speedlight on YN-622C
YN-622C-TX acting as the transmitter remote
(Nothing connected to camera's 3-pin)

It seems this would resolve the following:
1) ETTL - Check
2) Camera hotshoe isn't taken up in such a way that you can't mount a flash - Check
3) No extra receiver needed for remote shutter - Check
4) No cord needed to connect receiver to camera pins - Check
5) Remote shutter release functionality - Check

This system still wouldn't leverage the RT radio functionality that's already built into one's 600EX-RT, but it seems like the cleanest one I've seen so far.


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