# More Canon Pancakes ?



## Haydn1971 (Jul 18, 2013)

Noticed this on another site...

Pancake Patents


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## northbyten (Jul 22, 2013)

20mm and 35mm pancake primes would be nice


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## verysimplejason (Jul 22, 2013)

24mm or 28mm pancakes are very much welcome especially for APS-C. I always envy eos-m users with their 22mm pancakes.


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## Chosenbydestiny (Jul 22, 2013)

I don't mind more pancakes, I just hope they're EF and not EF-S =P A 20mm or 24mm 2.8 EF pancake would be perfect for travel alongside the existing 40mm. A 35mm pancake would be too close to the 40mm.


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## renlok (Jul 22, 2013)

I agree, 35mm is close to the 40mm

I would like to see a 24mm


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## paulc (Jul 22, 2013)

Image height = 21.64mm sounds like APS-C to me, though I sincerely hope I'm wrong.


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## sdsr (Jul 22, 2013)

What's the longest focal length that could be made in pancake or near-pancake lens? I think the longest I've run across is the Pentax 70mm.


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## bran8 (Jul 22, 2013)

What is the shortest focal lenght they can make into a pancake for full frame? Could it have the same image quality as the 40mm? Thanks.


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## rs (Jul 22, 2013)

bran8 said:


> What is the shortest focal lenght they can make into a pancake for full frame? Could it have the same image quality as the 40mm? Thanks.


Focal length of a pancake lens is much closer related to the flange distance of the mount than the sensor size. Pancake lenses, due to their size, are typically very simple optical designs with no retrofocus elements. Therefore going shorter in focal length than where the elements can be placed from the sensor is difficult without making the lens bigger.

EF-M has a flange distance of 18mm, so a 22mm pancake lens is theoretically not the most compact design they can ultimately design. Anything longer than 22mm and the barrel gets longer. EF and EF-S both share a 44mm flange distance. So it looks like the 40mm pancake pokes into the mount a small amount - going much shorter in focal length will likely foul the mirror. Having said that, EF-S mount lenses have more rear clearance due to the smaller mirror in crop cameras, so it would be possible to create a shorter EF-S pancake lens.

A 28mm true pancake lens is theoretically only possible for a camera with a flange distance of 30mm or less - so this makes it look like a mirrorless lens, if it wasn't for the fact that the 28mm pancake is the least pancake like of the four listed in this patent (35% longer than the 45mm pancake).

The image height in the patent doesn't make sense - 21.64mm (if the translation of what that figure represents is correct). FF has a height of 24mm, and Canon crop has a height of 14.9mm. This is in a strange in-between zone - even bigger than the 18.6mm image height of APS-H.

And one final note which throws even more uncertainty into this - these patents were filed in December 2011, and the 40mm pancake was announced in June 2012. The specs of that lens seem to match the 40mm lens in this patent - length, focal length, aperture, number of elements and groups. Are these other three just designs which won't ever see the light of day?


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## paulc (Jul 23, 2013)

APS-C is 22.2mm wide which is close to 21.64 but in the wrong direction. We're also dealing with a machine translation here.


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## BozillaNZ (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm totally with the flange distance theory, it is unlikely that Canon can come up with any more EF/s pancakes.

Which means... No more pancakes for you!


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## adhocphotographer (Jul 23, 2013)

BozillaNZ said:


> Which means... No more pancakes for you!



I think there is a market, the success of the odd focal lengthl 40mm STM... why not a 20ishMM lens? Voigtlander has one...


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## Sporgon (Jul 23, 2013)

I'd like a 50mm pancake f2.

Although they never called it a pancake the Nikkor 50mm f2 from 1977 to about 1979 was pretty well a pancake lens fitted (deep) into a normal 50mm 1.4 body. By far the best 50mm I have ever used.


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## bereninga (Jul 23, 2013)

I think the 40mm pancake lens was well-received. I think Canon should make more.


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## TeenTog (Jul 23, 2013)

> I just hope they're EF and not EF-S =P



For sure. It'd be nice to use some pancake lenses now, while I'm APS-C, and use the same lenses later when i go FF


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## pwp (Sep 3, 2013)

Having just bought my first EF-S body since the barely remembered 20D, (a 100D/Rebel SL-1 for travel) my interest in very compact lenses have jumped. I do have the 40mm f/2.8 but would dearly like a 22 or wider. Are there any third party wide pancakes from Sigma, Tamron etc? 

BTW I'm loving the SL-1..it's a featherweight compared to my gripped 5D3 and 1D4. 

-PW


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## dgatwood (Sep 3, 2013)

pwp said:


> Having just bought my first EF-S body since the barely remembered 20D, (a 100D/Rebel SL-1 for travel) my interest in very compact lenses have jumped. I do have the 40mm f/2.8 but would dearly like a 22 or wider. Are there any third party wide pancakes from Sigma, Tamron etc?



The closest I've seen is a 28mm K-mount (Pentax) pancake:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pentax-K-Mount-fit-Vivitar-28mm-f2-8-lens-PK-fit-suit-full-frame-or-Digital-SLR-/271269838116

which can be adapted to EF. Everything I've seen that's wider than that is designed for mirrorless cameras, which have a shorter flange distance.


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## gtog (Sep 3, 2013)

@pwp -- Voigtlander has a manual focus 20mm f/3.5 (also a 28mm f/2.8 ) in a Canon mount that is fairly compact. 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/676633-REG/Voigtlander_BA295AC_Color_Skopar_20mm_f_3_5.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/890581-REG/Voigtlander_bd296e_28mm_F_2_8_SL_II_Lens_Canon.html


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## pwp (Sep 3, 2013)

gtog said:


> @pwp -- Voigtlander has a manual focus 20mm f/3.5 (also a 28mm f/2.8 ) in a Canon mount that is fairly compact.
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/676633-REG/Voigtlander_BA295AC_Color_Skopar_20mm_f_3_5.html
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/890581-REG/Voigtlander_bd296e_28mm_F_2_8_SL_II_Lens_Canon.html


Thanks gtog. The 20mm f/3.5 looks VERY enticing. Don't know how I missed this one. I'll check it out further.

-PW


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## 9VIII (Sep 3, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> I'd like a 50mm pancake f2.
> 
> Although they never called it a pancake the Nikkor 50mm f2 from 1977 to about 1979 was pretty well a pancake lens fitted (deep) into a normal 50mm 1.4 body. By far the best 50mm I have ever used.



Yes!
An extra stop of light on the Pancake would do wonders, and 40mm is a little short for my taste, though being the widest lens I own at the moment means it gets used for a lot for landscape pictures.
If they could keep the close MFD that would be great too.


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