# C-Log Coming to EOS 5D Mark IV Confirmed [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 21, 2017)

```
Yesterday we reported we were pretty sure that the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV would get C-Log via a <del>firmware update</del> (<a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/c-log-update-to-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-not-just-a-firmware-update/">service center update</a>) that will likely be announced at NAB next month. We can now confirm that to a certainty that it’s coming. However, we do not have a release date for the firmware.</p>
<p>We’re now asking sources if the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II will see a similar firmware update, we’ll report back on that as soon as we’re able to.</p>
<p>There has been another suggestion that Canon has been actively looking at ways to “improve” the 4K video capture crop on the EOS 5D Mark IV. We cannot confirm at this time if we’re going to see that in a firmware update.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
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## preppyak (Mar 21, 2017)

Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.

Itd make it a lot more competitive with the GH5 and Sony A7 series, while also having the benefit of being a much better photo system.


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## James Larsen (Mar 21, 2017)

preppyak said:


> Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.
> 
> Itd make it a lot more competitive with the GH5 and Sony A7 series, while also having the benefit of being a much better photo system.



Couldn't of said it better myself.


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## mclaren777 (Mar 21, 2017)

The only think I truly want is a resolution option between 1080p and 4K.

Something like 2.7K would be fine and I hope it gets included.


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## pwp (Mar 21, 2017)

This is looking like a tacit acknowledgement by Canon that they badly miscalculated on a few points with the otherwise excellent 5D MkIV which I now own and love for my stills work. When you look at the brilliantly executed Panasonic GH5 and the rapid evolution that gave rise to the GH4 then GH5, you see a company who is listening hard to intelligent user feedback and delivering in spades. C-Log will be very welcome, and if a firmware workaround for the ridiculous x1.7 crop in 4K mode, and a codec choice that delivered smaller 4K files (look to Panasonic here...) you'd see a lot of relieved Canon consumers.

As an aside, I have a GH4 and was stunned to find out very early on that 60 seconds of 4K on the GH4 took up roughly the same amount of storage as 60 seconds of 1080p on my 5D MkIII. 

-pw


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## Sharlin (Mar 21, 2017)

preppyak said:


> Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.



A 1.6x crop wouldn't really make much sense as the whole point with the 1.7x crop is to read exactly a 4096x2160 center area of the sensor so there's no need to downsample. Besides, the crop basically already is 1.6x if you consider horizontal resolution only (remember, different aspect ratios!)


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## Sharlin (Mar 21, 2017)

pwp said:


> As an aside, I have a GH4 and was stunned to find out very early on that 60 seconds of 4K on the GH4 took up roughly the same amount of storage as 60 seconds of 1080p on my 5D MkIII.



Well, one can always compress to whatever bitrate one wants... 4K resolution is pretty useless if the bitrate is close to 1080p.


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## jedy (Mar 21, 2017)

This is a step in the right direction but Canon do seem to have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to dslr video. Their dslrs are badly missing, amongst a number of things, focus peaking and better dynamic range. Not wanting to harm sales of their cine cameras is resulting in people jumping ship to Sony and Panasonic. There are plenty of dedicated filmmakers who aren't in the market for a cine camera due, for example, to the high cost and/or physical size. I believe there is room for both decent stills and video dslrs (perhaps a dedicated video dslr in the 5DIV price range - 5D C??) from Canon, if they want it.


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## CanoKnight (Mar 21, 2017)

preppyak said:


> Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.
> 
> Itd make it a lot more competitive with the GH5 and Sony A7 series, while also having the benefit of being a much better photo system.



Also they would have to do something about the frame rate. If they can get the frame up to something that would let me shoot decent slow mo while retaining quality, plus all the things you mentioned, I might start having second thoughts about the GH5. I doubt that's going to happen so I will most likely still end up getting the GH5.


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## wsmith96 (Mar 21, 2017)

For those of us not educated in video related features, what is C-Log and what does it do for you?


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## Jopa (Mar 21, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re now asking sources if the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II will see a similar firmware update, we’ll report back on that as soon as we’re able to.



Thank you Craig. I hope it's coming. It would be lame if it's not.


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## IglooEater (Mar 21, 2017)

wsmith96 said:


> For those of us not educated in video related features, what is C-Log and what does it do for you?


I hope someone else more competent than me answers this one, but here goes:
Ever tried editing JPEG's, especially pushing and pulling highlights and shadows? They break down incredibly fast. That's because they are compressed and don't have enough data in them to handle that kind of manipulation. 
Same with compressed video. One solution is to shoot RAW video, as RED cameras do. That comes with astronomically large files. The other solution is to use more of the data in your compressed file in the areas you know you'll want to push and pull (i.e.: the shadows and highlights) and less of the data where you won't need to do such manipulations. So basically you get the ability to apply some edits without compromising file size. If I understand they call it a Log because of the mathematic formula they use to assign data to the tonal range there's C-Log, S-Log, (Sony) and others. 
One downside is that the footage is rather greyed-out right out of the box and will _require_ grading to become useable. (same goes with raw footage incidentally)


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## wsmith96 (Mar 21, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> wsmith96 said:
> 
> 
> > For those of us not educated in video related features, what is C-Log and what does it do for you?
> ...



Got it - Thanks!


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## goldenhusky (Mar 21, 2017)

Good to see some progress in the right direction


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## preppyak (Mar 21, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Well, one can always compress to whatever bitrate one wants... 4K resolution is pretty useless if the bitrate is close to 1080p.


Actually, Canon's problem isnt bit-rate. Its a bad codec. To get the results Panasonic gets at 100mb/s, they need to use 500mb/s. Its a choice, not a necessity.

I get why Canon didnt use the codec from their C-line of cameras; but those are capable of 4:2:2 in both 50 and 100mb/s. And they could have easily done a similar codec as Panasonic/Sony, or even done their own h265 thing to keep file size down


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## Jopa (Mar 22, 2017)

preppyak said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Well, one can always compress to whatever bitrate one wants... 4K resolution is pretty useless if the bitrate is close to 1080p.
> ...



MJPEG is not that bad. It offers great quality and you can always take a still from it. Plus it's very easy on the CPU. Assuming C-log is coming (i.e. some post processing / grading / transcoding will be likely involved), I would probably pick MJPEG over anything else (but not RAW of course  ).


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## crazyrunner33 (Mar 22, 2017)

preppyak said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Well, one can always compress to whatever bitrate one wants... 4K resolution is pretty useless if the bitrate is close to 1080p.
> ...



As far as I'm aware, Samsung NX1 is the only large sensor 4k DSLR that successfully uses H.265 without any overheating issues. The GH5 might change that, but it doesn't look like it uses H.265 as the primary codec. Even Sony struggles to produce a 4k image in their cameras using h.264 without overheating.

To have H.265 encoding, it will require a massive hardware architecture redesign, it's the reason other companies are switching to smartphone processors and encoders. At the current time, it's easier to implement motion jpeg since the camera is already designed to process raw into jpeg. Personally, I'm holding on to my 5D Mark III with ML RAW and for photos and using the Panasonic GH4(and soon the 5) until Canon can catch up.


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 22, 2017)

Almost impossible to believe this will hit the 5D4 before the 1DXII. If they miss out I'd be pretty p!ssed my expensive flagship plays second fiddle.

Both models need to offer a non-mjpg format at lower bit rate in UHD ratehr Cine 4K resolution. A 200Mb/s 3840 x 2160, mp4 say would be a nice addition if you aren't focused on stills extraction.


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## bgoyette (Mar 22, 2017)

wsmith96 said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > wsmith96 said:
> ...



That's kinda it  -- Most video video camera encode their data using a "linear" form that does a couple of things, it assigns many more code values to the tones above middle grey than those below middle grey (the quantity of encoding values, in theory, gradations, increases in the same way light does, doubling with each stop as exposure increases. So the darkest shadows have only a few possible gradations whereas the lightest "in gamut" highlights have hundreds or thousands of shades depending on bit depth(again, in theory). Typical linear encoding also ads a curve with the specific goal of creating 6-7 stops of consistent contrast in the middle of the tonal range, compressing those tones above and below that middle range. The purpose for this scheme it to make the footage look right on a typical Rec.709 display. (6-7 stops of range is also about what is possible to print on the high quality photo papers as well).

Log Gammas, in general, assign "relatively" equal amounts of code values to each stop in the available dynamic range of a captured image, and in the process, greatly expand the middle "straight line" portion (that 6-7 stops mentioned above) to 11, 12, 13 stops and more.. This produces an image that is extremely flat, without the "normal" contrast we are used to seeing in a standard linear gamma. The benefit to this type of gamma, especially in 10 or 12 bit versions, is that we have much more flexibility in the shadows and highlights (at the expense of some gradations in the middle of the curve). C-log was designed for 8-bit cameras, and so it fudges its log by slightly compressing and lifting the shadows to allow for a greater highlight range. It's very easy to grade, even without a LUT and actually looks pretty good untouched. 

It's of course a little more complicated than all that, but here's a graph showing the code value distribution of various Canon Log gammas. Note C-Log2, which is a more traditional cineon style Log curve, and its long flat shape -- which displays the essence of what a log gamma is, versus the original C-Log, with its compressed, lifted shadows, and more sloped strait line portion, compared to the Rec.709 curve that the current 5dmark IV outputs.


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## cpsico (Mar 22, 2017)

I have this camera only for stills and never use video for anything serious, is this something I should be excited about? What is a good video editing program that won't break the bank?


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## Chaitanya (Mar 22, 2017)

preppyak said:


> Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.
> 
> Itd make it a lot more competitive with the GH5 and Sony A7 series, while also having the benefit of being a much better photo system.


Highly doubt dumb Canon will remove MJPEG format, generally Canon is one step forward two steps back approach with developing cameras. Even I wish that overbloated crappy MJPEG format would die for good but since dumb canon is worried about protecting their "expensive" cameras, I dont see that happening.


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## bgoyette (Mar 22, 2017)

cpsico said:


> I have this camera only for stills and never use video for anything serious, is this something I should be excited about? What is a good video editing program that won't break the bank?



Is it something you should be excited about? Probably not. If you're happy with the video options the camera gives you now, then Log will probably only confuse the issue, because generally, log gamma's require grading, usually with a LUT (although c-log really doesn't need one). If you want more control over the tonal range, then, yes, the inclusion of Log could be exciting. C-log can probably be handled without a LUT in a free editor like iMovie, or with a LUT in Resolve (which is also free, but has a steep learning curve and fancy equipment requirements). Final Cut Pro is one of the best values in an NLE $299 for a program that you can install on as many machines as you like and has never had a paid update.


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## cpreston (Mar 22, 2017)

In my opinion, the reduced compression of MJPEG actually helps when working with clog. The compressed gradations in the midtones and shadows of the picture profile falls apart pretty easily when dealing with a highly compressed codec. The Panasonic people discovered this when they finally got their highly desired vlog. Despite how some people discuss it, clog really isn't an improvement in the video quality or capture. It is just useful in high contrast shots when you want to protect the information available in the highlights and want to do some color grading in post.

Hopefully, Canon figures out a way to implement some decent noise reduction if they add clog since that seems to make it one of the components that makes it useable in the cinema cameras.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 22, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> since dumb canon is worried about protecting their "expensive" cameras, I dont see that happening.



i wish people would stop with this dumb comments not supported with any rational facts as well, but I don't see that happening either 

FYI.. canon only has h.264 compression on vented air cooled video cameras. want to explain to me how they could do that on a 5D Mark IV?

or are you just speculating and because it makes it sound like you know what you're talking about, you're spouting out a tired myth that's been dispelled many times?


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## pwp (Mar 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > As an aside, I have a GH4 and was stunned to find out very early on that 60 seconds of 4K on the GH4 took up roughly the same amount of storage as 60 seconds of 1080p on my 5D MkIII.
> ...



Sure, but in my real-world the GH4 4k downsampled to 1080p leaves the 5DIII 1080p gasping for respectability. The bigger sensor does start to pull ahead when the iso gets over 1600. Yet to compare the GH4 with 5DIV 4k.

-pw


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## benkam (Mar 22, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> There has been another suggestion that Canon has been actively looking at ways to “improve” the 4K video capture crop on the EOS 5D Mark IV. We cannot confirm at this time if we’re going to see that in a firmware update.



1.3X crop in 4K like on the 1DX2?


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## vscd (Mar 22, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.
> ...



MJpeg was choosen because it provides a full picture every shot. Canon seemed to dedicate 4k video more to the photographers than to videoguys. There is no need for your S___storm. I Agree that a "better" codec could be provided but why replacing the old one? It makes a lot of sense to use MJPEG for a lot of situations.... I would like to see a *second *codec as choice, especially H.265.


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## Diko (Mar 22, 2017)

Canon is doing it wrong. They tried so hard to seperate 5D from Cinema line, now instead of fixing something important to stills like wi-fi (with its insane logic of profiles and vendor's random password) now they go for c-log which is awesome, but AFAIK is a sizy option to use. 

I do hope they will fix their wi-fi connectivity menus more han anything.


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## Talley (Mar 22, 2017)

All I want is a wifi option on the custom Q screen to quickly turn it on/off.

this is all. Oh and maybe a 120Mbps 4K option would be nice.


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## crazyrunner33 (Mar 22, 2017)

cpsico said:


> I have this camera only for stills and never use video for anything serious, is this something I should be excited about? What is a good video editing program that won't break the bank?



DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagic is a great program, plus it's free. It's primarily a color correction program with editing software that's similar to Final Cut. If you're going to pay for software, Premiere Pro is the only way to go.


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 22, 2017)

Even allowing for C-Log the 5D MKIV is a long way short of the professional video from the C300 MKII which is a long way short of the video out of say the Red Weapon 6K or Helium 6K cameras. 
Lets be frank the 5D MKIV is not designed to be a broadcast camera or a movie camera (hell the C300 MKII is not a movie camera). 
The 5D MIV is fine for internet type docs, ad spots or short films to a level but anything sophisticated (visual affects etc) and its not the best tool in the box by a country mile.


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## RayValdez360 (Mar 22, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> Even allowing for C-Log the 5D MKIV is a long way short of the professional video from the C300 MKII which is a long way short of the video out of say the Red Weapon 6K or Helium 6K cameras.
> Lets be frank the 5D MKIV is not designed to be a broadcast camera or a movie camera (hell the C300 MKII is not a movie camera).
> The 5D MIV is fine for internet type docs, ad spots or short films to a level but anything sophisticated (visual affects etc) and its not the best tool in the box by a country mile.



Who said anything about it being like a $10,000+ movie camera. As a long time c100 owner. Log is much better than the crap on the dslrs. Especially in high contrast low light when all the shadows are just black or the highlights are blown. Also it will make it easy to match the cinema line with the eos line multi-cam projects.


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## Jopa (Mar 22, 2017)

benkam said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > There has been another suggestion that Canon has been actively looking at ways to “improve” the 4K video capture crop on the EOS 5D Mark IV. We cannot confirm at this time if we’re going to see that in a firmware update.
> ...



It's a 4k area on the sensor, that's why it's 1.7 with no pixel binning.


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## IglooEater (Mar 22, 2017)

It would be fun to imagine that they could use the whole sensor and bun it down to 4K, but I doubt that's actually possible. Too much data to handle.


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## IglooEater (Mar 24, 2017)

bgoyette said:



> wsmith96 said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



Thank you! I appreciate the correction and clarification.


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## Mr. Milo (Mar 24, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> Even allowing for C-Log the 5D MKIV is a long way short of the professional video from the C300 MKII which is a long way short of the video out of say the Red Weapon 6K or Helium 6K cameras.
> *Lets be frank the 5D MKIV is not designed to be a broadcast camera or a movie camera (hell the C300 MKII is not a movie camera).
> The 5D MIV is fine for internet type docs, ad spots or short films to a level but anything sophisticated (visual affects etc) and its not the best tool in the box by a country mile.*



I disagree. Anyone can film with 5D MKIV for broadcast and movies especially with C-Log. Remember, Hollywood filmed an entire episode of House M.D. with a 5D Mark II and there have been 1000s of short films and commercials filmed with that.

You be surprised at films that gets accepted into film festivals. They film with crappier equipment and I have seen hundreds of those films.

It's story, acting, editing, and directing that drive those films. NOT film equipment. The C300 Mark II is actually a luxury to film with. Yes, you can film feature films with that thing. Yes, even with visual effects. However, I do not recommend filming with a DSLR _for visual effects_ nowadays. The footage needs to be super clean with awesome dynamic range and a DSLR will not bring that.


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## SteveB77 (Apr 23, 2017)

I bought my 5div to upgrade from my aging 7 year old 7d. I'm not interested in using it for video. I think I only used my 7d for video twice as I'm more into stills. Does anyone know how it will affect future firmware updates if you don't pay to have the Clog update carried out. I'm not into paying extra for something I'm not going to use, even more so if it means the camera needs to be stripped down and modified unnecessarily.


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## BasilFawlty (Jun 29, 2017)

Just got my 5D IV back from Canon. They kept it for one day and then return with FedEx overnight shipping.

All in all $118 and C-log seems to work perfect!

Happy I stayed with Canon and did not change brand. Promised Canon that 35 years ago, a long story from Stockholm Sweden...

So, highly recommended!


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## Policar (Jun 30, 2017)

SteveB77 said:


> I bought my 5div to upgrade from my aging 7 year old 7d. I'm not interested in using it for video. I think I only used my 7d for video twice as I'm more into stills. Does anyone know how it will affect future firmware updates if you don't pay to have the Clog update carried out. I'm not into paying extra for something I'm not going to use, even more so if it means the camera needs to be stripped down and modified unnecessarily.



I agree and I work in vfx. It's weird that I keep reading online about VFX artists wanting 8k or raw because that is the last thing I want and it is not something that resonates with what other artists tell me. It slows the pipline down too much, and 99% of deliverables are 2k or 1080p. 

Generally, I like 2k prores. Although 4k DPX is workable with a 10 gigabit switch. 

90% of the work I do is on the Alexa (the rest mostly F55 and Epic) but I think the 5D Mark IV will be more than good enough for even very heavy vfx work. The C300 was almost there.


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## Morku (Jul 1, 2017)

BasilFawlty said:


> Just got my 5D IV back from Canon. They kept it for one day and then return with FedEx overnight shipping.
> 
> All in all $118 and C-log seems to work perfect!
> 
> ...


I also updated my 5D Mark IV for C-Log yesterday. I went to a CPS certified store and got my camera back after 30 minutes. Payed 98,18€ in germany.
Feels good to have a useful videomode now, without mess around which "flat picture style is the best".

Oh and after update, my camera firmware version says *1.1.0*.


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## Frederik_Bo (Jul 2, 2017)

Is c-log the only thing that gets upgreated or is the cropfactor changed to?


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## pinoyplaya4life (Jul 5, 2017)

Morku said:


> BasilFawlty said:
> 
> 
> > Just got my 5D IV back from Canon. They kept it for one day and then return with FedEx overnight shipping.
> ...



Awesome! I have a local CPS store here. Perhaps I can drop it off and pick it up within an hour.


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## max. (Jul 5, 2017)

Morku said:


> I also updated my 5D Mark IV for C-Log yesterday. I went to a CPS certified store and got my camera back after 30 minutes. Payed 98,18€ in germany.
> Feels good to have a useful videomode now, without mess around which "flat picture style is the best".
> 
> Oh and after update, my camera firmware version says *1.1.0*.



I am calling all CPS in Berlin but none seem to do it in store, ahhh! Would you share, which store you went to?


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## Jopa (Jul 5, 2017)

I need to try to do the same with my 1dx2. I'll probably re-badge it as 5dm4 and send to CPS


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## pinoyplaya4life (Jul 6, 2017)

Just got mine updated. Took less than 30 minutes. I was informed that there was no hardware changes, only firmware. So technically, someone could copy the firmware and make it available to the general public for them to install manually?


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## pinoyplaya4life (Jul 6, 2017)

Jopa said:


> I need to try to do the same with my 1dx2. I'll probably re-badge it as 5dm4 and send to CPS



Trade you your 1DX2 for my 5D4-CLOG?


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## Jopa (Jul 6, 2017)

pinoyplaya4life said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > I need to try to do the same with my 1dx2. I'll probably re-badge it as 5dm4 and send to CPS
> ...



Ideally I would prefer a combination... The 5dm4 has some great features missing in the 1dx2: DPRAW & C-Log.
Now if you look at the new 6dm2, it got a few nice extras as well: tilt screen, continuous AF for stills in LV (not just video), 5-axis video stabilization. Now imagine all this stuff in one camera! I understand it will be hard to bring a tilt screen via a hardware update  but the rest could be definitely added programmatically.


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