# Which (if any) non-L lenses are enviro-sealed?



## curby (Dec 13, 2012)

So, thread title says it all. I imagine it goes something like this:

*Customer:* Why isn't the 17-55/2.8 IS environmentally sealed?
*Canon:* That's a feature we offer on our L-designated lenses.
*Customer:* So weather-sealing is something that only high-end gear offers?
*Canon:* Essentially.
*Customer:* But prosumer bodies like the 60D are sealed as well.
*Canon:* Our innovative lens mounts allow such customers to use sealed EF lenses for a fully dust- and moisture-resistant system.
*Customer:* Due to the crop factor of such bodies, a 24-70/2.8 L would end up being too long. 
*Canon:* You could use the EF 16-35mm f/2.8 USM L.
*Customer:* So the only option would be a lens that costs twice as much as the camera and is obviously intended for a different purpose and platform? Why do you offer sealed EF-S cameras, but no sealed general-purpose lenses intended for those cameras?
*Canon:* ... Jeez, you guys are picky.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 13, 2012)

There are no environmentally sealed EF-S cameras, so they do not seal to a environmentally sealed lens in any event, and the lens mount is a biggie.

It does not make much sense to seal EF-S lenses. Of course, they could seal the bodies, but they won't.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

curby said:


> *Customer:* But prosumer bodies like the 60D are sealed as well.



The 60D has some degree of weather sealing, but not much. The 7D has decent sealing, as does the 5DIII. But the true pro bodies (vs. 'prosumer' whatever that means) have a much higher level of sealing - O-rings where lesser bodies use foam, rubber or foam where lesser bodies rely on tight joins, an additional seal around the lens mount that mates with the gasket on sealed lenses, etc.


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## PackLight (Dec 13, 2012)

I doubt the conversation would go anything like that.

Canon seems to avoid words like sealed and sealing, although sometimes I have seen it mentioned. Probably because there are many that miss understand when they say a lens is weather sealed, the immediatly think it is water tight and vaccum sealed.

Case in point go to Canon's website and look at the 70-200mm f/2.8 II and look at the description. Do a word search for sealed or seal.
Open up the owners manual do the word search, here is the only statement I found "7. Tight seal structure ensures excellent dust-proof and drip-proof performance."

No mention of "sealed"


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## Halfrack (Dec 13, 2012)

So is this a Nikon troll or a Pentax thing...?

If Canon says it's weather sealed, a user is expecting to shoot outside in a downpour of rain without any impact. To actually pull that off is actually hard, and it impacts the cost of the lens and body. With ef-s, it's a trade off platform. If you want weather protected, grab a $6 cover.

The lens you'd be using is the EF 17-40mm f4L with a UV filter to achieve weather sealed.


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## sagittariansrock (Dec 13, 2012)

Do non-professionals really stand in the pouring rain, getting soaked, taking pictures?
I wouldn't be doing that if I wasn't getting paid for it- even if my gear is weather-sealed, I am not!


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## zim (Dec 13, 2012)

Yes I do/have, you simple have to use common sense and the appropriate precautions and shooting in pissing rain even with a 500D and kit lens isn’t an issue.
(and I was going to add a pic example but I can’t find it…… oh dear now I have something else to worry about  )


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## sagittariansrock (Dec 13, 2012)

zim said:


> Yes I do/have, you simple have to use common sense and the appropriate precautions and shooting in pissing rain even with a 500D and kit lens isn’t an issue.
> (and I was going to add a pic example but I can’t find it…… oh dear now I have something else to worry about  )



Yeah well, when you've taken those *precautions* (umbrellas, mackintoshes, etc.) then you're not really *standing in the rain*, getting soaked are you? 8)


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## PackLight (Dec 13, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> Do non-professionals really stand in the pouring rain, getting soaked, taking pictures?



Only the ones who aren't smart enough to be prepared and bring a poncho or slicker with them for emergencies.


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## BruinBear (Dec 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> curby said:
> 
> 
> > *Customer:* But prosumer bodies like the 60D are sealed as well.
> ...



+1 to this. I have talked with canon technical support and they say that the 60D is not weathersealed.
You can see the seals for yourself in these two pictures.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E60D/ZSEALS1-LG.JPG
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E60D/ZSEALS2-LG.JPG

It just has some basic gaskets and seals under the buttons. What actually worries me the most is lack of seals around the flash unit. I would not take the camera in anything more than a very light sprinkle.

Also, 17-40 f/4 as someone else mentioned is a pretty cheap weathersealed lens with a filter.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> Do non-professionals really stand in the pouring rain, getting soaked, taking pictures?



I have. Wearing a rain coat and rain pants, I stayed pretty dry. My gear did not. 1D X and sealed lens - no issues.


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## picturesbyme (Dec 13, 2012)

Halfrack said:


> To actually pull that off is actually hard, and it impacts the cost of the lens and body. With ef-s, it's a trade off platform. If you want weather protected, grab a $6 cover.
> The lens you'd be using is the EF 17-40mm f4L with a UV filter to achieve weather sealed.



True.
On the other hand Oly did it with the E3, E5 and they cost about the same as the recent crop bodies.
(http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10724.msg192116#msg192116)

eventually I agree with the rain cover, even if the gear is sealed, it saves time cleaning later.


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## lol (Dec 13, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> Do non-professionals really stand in the pouring rain, getting soaked, taking pictures?


I typically will bring waterproofs for myself, and/or an umbrella depending on the severity of the forecast. Yes, I can hold an umbrella and use a DSLR at the same time! The camera kit though doesn't get any protection. I looked at the glorified plastic bags before but they just get in the way.

It takes more rain than you think for things to start playing up even if they're not perfectly sealed.






Here's a 7D + 70-300L after an unexpected heavy shower. On this occasion I didn't have any rain prevention at all as nothing was forecast. I do find if I spend more than a few hours in the rain with the 7D, the rear joystick can start playing up.





My main lens though is the 100-400L, which is less sealed than the 70-300L. After some hours in the rain, the 100-400L will develop condensation inside which blocks the optical path. Unless you really love the soft focus look, I switch to a backup lens and keep shooting. It dries out fine when I get home, just leave the caps off for a bit.


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## sagittariansrock (Dec 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > Do non-professionals really stand in the pouring rain, getting soaked, taking pictures?
> ...





zim said:


> Yes I do/have, you simple have to use common sense and the appropriate precautions and shooting in pissing rain even with a 500D and kit lens isn’t an issue.
> (and I was going to add a pic example but I can’t find it…… oh dear now I have something else to worry about  )




Both of you misunderstand my point.

When I say "even if my gear is weather-sealed, I am not" I mean when I have not predicted the rain (I used to live in Oregon, and one cannot always carry a poncho or an umbrella). Neuro mentions using rain coat and pants, Zim mentions "precautions and common sense"- I am talking about those times when you'd definitely get *soaked* if you kept taking pictures!

The point I am trying to make is- if you cannot afford weather-sealed gear, and didn't take precautions to protect your gear (and self!) in case of rain, you probably don't *have* to risk damaging them unless you are a professional (in which case the shot might be worth the risk). So if you have chosen not to invest in lenses double the cost of your camera for their rainworthiness, then you probably don't need it. That the whole point of non-L lenses not being weather-sealed is moot.


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## pdirestajr (Dec 13, 2012)

Just rock this bad boy and you can get REALLY EXTREME!!!


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> Both of you misunderstand my point.
> 
> When I say "even if my gear is weather-sealed, I am not" I mean when I have not predicted the rain (I used to live in Oregon, and one cannot always carry a poncho or an umbrella). Neuro mentions using rain coat and pants, Zim mentions "precautions and common sense"- I am talking about those times when you'd definitely get *soaked* if you kept taking pictures!



Even then, yes. Trips to an amusement park with my kids, 1D X and 24-105L went with me on raft rides, flume rides, and even a slow-moving boat ride where you have water cannon battles with other boats and with bystanders. Completely soaked, but got done great pics of the kids.


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## Halfrack (Dec 13, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> Just rock this bad boy and you can get REALLY EXTREME!!!



I love my D20, but HATE how AF works for it


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## sagittariansrock (Dec 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > Both of you misunderstand my point.
> ...




All right, I stand corrected. You didn't quote or comment on my next paragraph though. I wouldn't want the above (cough: incorrect) paragraph to distract from the point I was trying to make.


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## Ryan708 (Dec 14, 2012)

anyone know how the sealing is on the 6D? I have heard the 5dII is so-so, but it was a more "pro" cam than the 6d is intended


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## curby (Dec 14, 2012)

Hey folks, thanks for the replies.  I'm definitely a Canon user and proponent, not a Nikon troll in disguise. That said, most companies you're a fan of probably still do things that annoy you. =)

Re: the conversation in the OP, it was meant to be facetious. I don't imagine for an instant that any official rep would say those things, but it's pretty much what their product lineup says for them. 

From a more personal angle, I was recently on a harbor cruise down in NZ where it got a bit rough and we had some (like many gallons of) salt spray coming over the bow. I left my 70-200/4 on the body for most of the time even when the 17-55/2.8 would have been the better choice at times. The reason was because the 17-55 is infamous for being just slightly less porous than a sieve, whereas the 70-200 at least tries (based on the descriptions and reviews). They're comparable in price and quality, but one says L and the other isn't sealed.

I shoot with a 400Xt, which is definitely not sealed. It has survived that and other moist excursions, but I've never had it out in an actual downpour. 

Lastly I know that a "sealed" product isn't meant for underwater use and a non-sealed product won't short out when touched by a sweaty hand. It's a continuum, but it's a strange and bumpy one. If neither the 60D nor the 7D even tried at all with sealing, at least I could see the consistency. As it is, it's a bit schizo. 

*tl;dr;deadhorse:* Canon makes nice stuff for the EF-S crowd too, from bodies to lenses. Some better enviro-sealing on the glass would be nice.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 14, 2012)

Just buy one of these (Dicapac) for your environmental sealing. It's not perfect but you can stand in the rain for hours and hours and hours. Just don't expect too much comfort/control when using these. As I'm planning to go to picture Puerto Princesa's Underground river using a boat, I'm going to buy one of these and hopefully I can take some awesome pictures.

http://shashinki.com/shop/dicapac-korea-m-54.html?osCsid=697fce5808e66455a85b8afcaf666af2


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## Area256 (Dec 14, 2012)

Ryan708 said:


> anyone know how the sealing is on the 6D? I have heard the 5dII is so-so, but it was a more "pro" cam than the 6d is intended



I can't compare it to the 5D3 since I don't own one. However I can say it is more sealed than the 60D. The battery and memory card doors have foam pads in some places, and close together more tightly than those of the 60D. The port covers also fit better, and seem to be shaped to help keep water out. And judging by the feel of the buttons, I would guess there is a rubber component going back into the body on all of them.

I think it'll do a good job of keeping dust out, and some light splashes aren't likely to be a problem. However I'm not sure it would stand up to prolonged exposure to water (i.e. being shot in heavy rain). Although this is mostly speculation based on looking at it... I could be totally wrong, have to wait until I get caught in the rain without a bag to be sure


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## pj1974 (Dec 14, 2012)

I have the Canon 7D, which is really quite decent in terms of weathering some light rain, etc. Definitely a few steps above my Canon 350D.

In terms of lenses, definitely the best non-L build that I have are shared by the Canon 100mm USM macro (nonL) and the Canon 15-85mm USM. Both are very sturdy. I've happily let them get a bit of dust and light spray or light rain, without issues. 8)

I also had the Canon 28-135mm USM lens, which wasn't as good as the above two... it let in more moisture (and the smallest amount of dust).

Then again, no other lens I own comes close to my Canon 70-300mm L - but hey, that's an L! 

Paul


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## epsiloneri (Dec 14, 2012)

lol said:


> My main lens though is the 100-400L, which is less sealed than the 70-300L. After some hours in the rain, the 100-400L will develop condensation inside which blocks the optical path. Unless you really love the soft focus look, I switch to a backup lens and keep shooting.


Switching lenses during rain to get better sealing doesn't sound like a good idea, unless you can get away from the rain to do that.


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## Zusje (Dec 14, 2012)

I have used the 70-300 f4-5.6 is usm NON-L lens on a 50D breifly in the rain and afterward standing under dripping trees, they got abit wet but no harm done.


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## NormanBates (Dec 14, 2012)

I would like to learn more about weather sealing. Like: what is good and what is not so good? what's the difference between o-ring and foam?
Any links? pics? threads?
Thanks


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