# Atomos brings 8K 30p ProRes RAW to the Canon EOS R5 with the Ninja V+



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 28, 2021)

> *Melbourne, Australia – 28th April 2021 *– Atomos is thrilled to announce that it is expanding the Ninja family, with two exciting new Ninja products and a major update for Ninja V!
> Ninja V receives the option for H.265 codec upgrade, Ninja V+ – is built for Apple ProRes RAW 8K productions, and Ninja Stream – 4Kp60 HDR for a high-quality social distancing production environment.
> The Ninja V receives H.265 (HEVC)
> The original Ninja V, launched in 2018, remains the most popular Atomos product and receives the ability to add the H.265 (HEVC) codec. The 5” 1000nit 10-stop HDR monitor allows users to accurately monitor and record from either HDMI or SDI. Atomos continues to expand Apple ProRes RAW support on all partner cameras over HDMI and SDI. The Ninja V will continue to receive updates for cameras and additional functionality via AtomX modules whilst remaining at the price of $595.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Jonathan Thill (Apr 28, 2021)

WOW!!!


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## goldenhusky (Apr 28, 2021)

Does the R5 put out 8k through hdmi? If not how this Ninja can record 8k from R5?


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## eat-sleep-code (Apr 28, 2021)

goldenhusky said:


> Does the R5 put out 8k through hdmi? If not how this Ninja can record 8k from R5?


Apparently, from the product preorder pages:

_ProRes raw recording over HDMI up to 8K30 with cameras such as the Canon R5 (more camera integrations coming from mid-2021)_


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## Besisika (Apr 28, 2021)

eat-sleep-code said:


> Apparently, from the product preorder pages:
> 
> _ProRes raw recording over HDMI up to 8K30 with cameras such as the Canon R5 (more camera integrations coming from mid-2021)_


I already own the Ninja V and don't really use it, but I would buy the V+ if 8k prores raw from the R5 would be included. Seriously, I doubt that.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2021)

According to Canon (page 905 of the manual) the R5 cannot output 8k over HDMI, the HDMI standard (hardware) fitted to the R5 is incapable of doing 8K.

Atoms are using the same ‘marketing terminology’ they have done before, ie, completely falsely misrepresenting the actual abilities of the cameras, not their products.


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## PureClassA (Apr 28, 2021)

HOLLY BALLS! Wait a minute, might we also get 4K (NOT 8K) ProRes RAW from the Canon r5 & 6 with the current Ninja V or Shogun 7?????


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## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2021)

PureClassA said:


> HOLLY BALLS! Wait a minute, might we also get 4K (NOT 8K) ProRes RAW from the Canon r5 & 6 with the current Ninja V or Shogun 7?????


You can get 4K and even 4kHQ currently with a Ninja V.


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## Besisika (Apr 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> According to Canon (page 905 of the manual) the R5 cannot output 8k over HDMI, the HDMI standard (hardware) fitted to the R5 is incapable of doing 8K.
> 
> Atoms are using the same ‘marketing terminology’ they have done before, ie, completely falsely misrepresenting the actual abilities of the cameras, not their products.
> 
> View attachment 197313


Would it be possible with a hardware update to Canon service?
Or simply because it is for a different version of R5?
Anyway, the H.265 on the V could interest me.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2021)

Besisika said:


> Would it be possible with a hardware update to Canon service?
> Or simply because it is for a different version of R5?
> Anyway, the H.265 on the V could interest me.


I very much doubt it, my understanding, and I could be wrong, is that it is the chip that controls the HDMI port. There is no chance Canon will change those. Of course they might make an R5n, like the 1D MkIIn that had some hardware improvements over the MkII, but I doubt it. Maybe the R3 will have a higher spec HDMI controller.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 28, 2021)

goldenhusky said:


> Does the R5 put out 8k through hdmi? If not how this Ninja can record 8k from R5?


The word on the YouTubes was that the R5 HDMI was not fast enough but Atomos knows how popular the R5 is and can afford one to test with.
If it works without overheating then this is a must-buy for me even though I already own a Ninja V.
I guess I will keep it as a backup.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> According to Canon (page 905 of the manual) the R5 cannot output 8k over HDMI, the HDMI standard (hardware) fitted to the R5 is incapable of doing 8K.
> 
> Atoms are using the same ‘marketing terminology’ they have done before, ie, completely falsely misrepresenting the actual abilities of the cameras, not their products.
> 
> View attachment 197313


Capabilities aside there is no setting for 8K or 4K/120 over HDMI so Atomos would have to be working with modified firmware.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> You can get 4K and even 4kHQ currently with a Ninja V.


golden huskey was referring to 4K ProRes RAW which I can assure you that the R5 can't record.


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## SGPhoto (Apr 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> According to Canon (page 905 of the manual) the R5 cannot output 8k over HDMI, the HDMI standard (hardware) fitted to the R5 is incapable of doing 8K.
> 
> Atoms are using the same ‘marketing terminology’ they have done before, ie, completely falsely misrepresenting the actual abilities of the cameras, not their products.



The R5, as far as I can tell, has HDMI 2.0 which supports 8k30 4:2:0 (as well as 4k120 4:2:0). While the manual says it's not supported, the HDMI hardware *can*. Assuming the rest of the hardware can actually support 8k over HDMI, I imagine there will be a firmware update to officially support this.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 28, 2021)

"Atomos and Canon are delighted"


SGPhoto said:


> The R5, as far as I can tell, has HDMI 2.0 which supports 8k30 4:2:0 (as well as 4k120 4:2:0). While the manual says it's not supported, the HDMI hardware *can*. Assuming the rest of the hardware can actually support 8k over HDMI, I imagine there will be a firmware update to officially support this.


It looks like the announcement is coming from both Atomos and Canon so I do expect a firmware update.
I do hope Black Magic responds in kind.
They do seem to be trailing Atomos.
I question what an R5c would have to be to coexist with R5 + Ninja V+, R3, C90, and R1 but I still do hope they all come in some form.


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## BakaBokeh (Apr 28, 2021)

Incredible news! I always thought there was a hardware limitation on this, but if Atomos is collaborating with Canon on this and specifically mentioning the R5 in their announcement, well then... I'm not complaining if they can make it work.

I loved the idea of shooting a large stage in 8K and zooming panning in post delivering in 4K or even FHD. The only issue is, the R5 will only give you 15 minutes and subsequently shorter times. So unless your event is short, the application was limited. Having an Atomos with a cheap SSD and no recording time limits makes the dream of an edit that looks multicam with a single camera alive again!


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## DJPatte (Apr 28, 2021)

Rushed to “peak happiness” for today until I realised It’ll still cost me $1499. IF I really want the 8K recording option. Still happy though, just not “I can just upgrade my worthy old Ninja V” -happy.


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## peters (Apr 28, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> The word on the YouTubes was that the R5 HDMI was not fast enough but Atomos knows how popular the R5 is and can afford one to test with.
> If it works without overheating then this is a must-buy for me even though I already own a Ninja V.
> I guess I will keep it as a backup.


I dont belive that some YouTube guys can actualy tear the mainboard apart and tell for sure what kind of technical connection is made inside of the HDMI port. 
Currently 4k60 is the limit - but firmware update MAY change this. The Atomos announcement looks awesome. 
Though I belive that 8k RAW is not an important feature for me. 4k RAW would be awesome, but 8k RAW is for 99% of my work overkill. 
Also it would be important if the camera keeps overheating while recording externaly. If not, this would be a gamechanger and make the R5 fit for 8 more years :-D


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## BakaBokeh (Apr 28, 2021)

peters said:


> I dont belive that some YouTube guys can actualy tear the mainboard apart and tell for sure what kind of technical connection is made inside of the HDMI port.
> Currently 4k60 is the limit - but firmware update MAY change this. The Atomos announcement looks awesome.
> Though I belive that 8k RAW is not an important feature for me. 4k RAW would be awesome, but 8k RAW is for 99% of my work overkill.
> Also it would be important if the camera keeps overheating while recording externaly. If not, this would be a gamechanger and make the R5 fit for 8 more years :-D


I would love 4K raw from the R5, but wouldn't it mean it'd be cropped? Not sure if the R5 can output a oversampled or pixel binned AND Raw image. This is why it already isn't available in camera. Unless the Atomos can do some of the processing? I don't know how that would work.

I doubt overheating will be an issue in a practical sense. There was a time when having the LCD screen on would cause overheating on the R5 even when outputting to a Ninja, but that's been fixed in a firmware update. 4K120 is the biggest culprit to overheating, so it might be technically possible to overheat with an external recorder, but I don't even know if this feature will be available. Currently the announcement says 4K120 is available with a couple Z-Cam models, and Sony cinema cameras utilizing the SDI Kit.


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## SonicStudios (Apr 28, 2021)

Wow, unlimited 8K recording externally from an R5 without overheating, could this be possible with the new NV?


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 28, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> I would love 4K raw from the R5, but wouldn't it mean it'd be cropped?


For Canon, that may be true but there is a lot more to it.
External RAW is often downsampled or even binned.
I was told that it was originally meant to be the RAW readout from the Atomos feed when sent a 4:4:4 signal but Panasonic wanted to push their metadata with the S1H.
Now sometimes it is a RAW sensor readout and other times it is not.
People who apparently never shoot RAW just say, "it shoots RAW" as if REDcode RAW. Cinema DNG, ARRI RAW, BRAW, Canon RAW, and ProRes RAW are anything alike. 
ProRes RAW is a lot different for each camera model.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 28, 2021)

SonicStudios said:


> Wow, unlimited 8K recording externally from an R5 without overheating, could this be possible with the new NV?


It is just pronounced the V.
Ninjas are silent.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 29, 2021)

Guys this is exactly what Atomos have done before, say their hardware can support things the camera hardware is not capable of. Canon does not support 8k over the R5 HDMI port.

Nobody can get the HDMI port on an R5 to output 8k without firmware/hardware to the camera regardless of what Atomos say and there is zero reason to think Canon will do it because it would cost them a lot of money and they would earn nothing from doing it.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 29, 2021)

SGPhoto said:


> The R5, as far as I can tell, has HDMI 2.0 which supports 8k30 4:2:0 (as well as 4k120 4:2:0). While the manual says it's not supported, the HDMI hardware *can*. Assuming the rest of the hardware can actually support 8k over HDMI, I imagine there will be a firmware update to officially support this.


Although the HDMI2.1 standard was released in 2017, the first devices including HDMI2.1 hardware came to market in 2H2020 ie one NVidia graphics card and the PS5/XboxX consoles. HDMI2.1 cables were rare if available when the R5 was released. Safe to assume that the R5 doesn't have it. If it did then it would have been the first in the world and Canon would have probably highlighted it.
Unless Canon releases firmware that includes 4:2:0 instead of the current 4:2:2 then I am not sure how HDMI2.0 can be used. Note that 4:2:0 would be gratefully appreciated by the editors who don't have iPad Pro/M1 chipped PCs as 4:2:2 HW codecs aren't widely available.


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## jamesicho (Apr 29, 2021)

goldenhusky said:


> Does the R5 put out 8k through hdmi? If not how this Ninja can record 8k from R5?


on a spec sheet hdmi output maxed @4k but atomos wouldn't randomly write sth on their announcement paper with 8k raw capability with r5


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## peters (Apr 29, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> I would love 4K raw from the R5, but wouldn't it mean it'd be cropped? Not sure if the R5 can output a oversampled or pixel binned AND Raw image. This is why it already isn't available in camera. Unless the Atomos can do some of the processing? I don't know how that would work.
> 
> I doubt overheating will be an issue in a practical sense. There was a time when having the LCD screen on would cause overheating on the R5 even when outputting to a Ninja, but that's been fixed in a firmware update. 4K120 is the biggest culprit to overheating, so it might be technically possible to overheat with an external recorder, but I don't even know if this feature will be available. Currently the announcement says 4K120 is available with a couple Z-Cam models, and Sony cinema cameras utilizing the SDI Kit.


Jeah, I think its not likely that the camera can put out 4k RAW. But it appears possible to me, that the Atomos could transcode the 8k RAW to 4k RAW. Its not "real" RAW anyway. Prores RAW is already a processed image thats allready debayered if I am not mistaken. So another processing in the Atomos doesnt sound impossible for me  

Right now 4k HQ overheats if you work for some hours with on and off recording, even if you only record externaly. The 4k HQ is noteable better than the 4k normal mode - so it may be worth the risk in a controlled enviroment if the client ist breathing down your neck. 
I am not sure about the amount of processing going on in the camera - but I think putting the image online out over hdmi without processesing it from 8k to 4k would take less processing power and less heat. So maybe 8k RAW external would be less prone to overheat than 4k HQ externaly  If so, the Atomos would be a very welcomed upgrade and I would sell my current atomos V =)


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## peters (Apr 29, 2021)

jamesicho said:


> on a spec sheet hdmi output maxed @4k but atomos wouldn't randomly write sth on their announcement paper with 8k raw capability with r5


The spec sheet only tells us what is currently working (software and hardware combined). Not what the hardware inside could actualy do with a firmware update. So the spec sheet is not worth a lot to judge the possibilities Its possible that canon comes along with a firmware update, changing the way the output signal works. =)


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## privatebydesign (Apr 29, 2021)

jamesicho said:


> on a spec sheet hdmi output maxed @4k but atomos wouldn't randomly write sth on their announcement paper with 8k raw capability with r5


Yes they would and they have done so before! They did it when they originally released the V, they suggested all kinds of cameras could be used to record RAW ProRes but few cameras could actually output it.


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## peters (Apr 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Yes they would and they have done so before! They did it when they originally released the V, they suggested all kinds of cameras could be used to record RAW ProRes but few cameras could actually output it.


Jeah, but in the press information the R5 is noted explicitly, so I think this is true and actualy coming =) 


https://uploads.atomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/28205759/PR-NINJA.FAMILY-DISTRIBUTIONV2.pdf





> We are also delighted to announce that the Ninja V+ will be able to record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW when connected to a Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera. Atomos and Canon are delighted to be bringing customers a world first for capturing stunning pristine 8K images with such an affordable, capable and compact camera system. This will be a true game changer in content creation. The ProRes RAW format is a perfect vehicle for an 8K workflow, from ease of use natively on the timeline within Final Cut Pro, to the flexibility of the image processing with full adjustment of WB and ISO control. Coupled with the proven Full Frame Canon EOS R5, this combination will propel content creators to a whole new level of production values. Coming later in 2021.


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## vladk (Apr 29, 2021)

R5 continuous HDMI output is still limited to 30 min, correct?


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## peters (Apr 29, 2021)

vladk said:


> R5 continuous HDMI output is still limited to 30 min, correct?


Thats the first time I heard about this and in my experience that wasnt the case, IIRC.
The camera does not know if the external recorder is actualy recording or not, so the camera cant cut the connection after a certain time.


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## BakaBokeh (Apr 29, 2021)

vladk said:


> R5 continuous HDMI output is still limited to 30 min, correct?


No. It's virtually unlimited. The longest published test is like 4 hours. The longest I've gone is about 2 and a half hours with the Ninja V and only stopped because I was finished.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 29, 2021)

peters said:


> Jeah, but in the press information the R5 is noted explicitly, so I think this is true and actualy coming =)
> 
> 
> https://uploads.atomos.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/28205759/PR-NINJA.FAMILY-DISTRIBUTIONV2.pdf


Well that is a more detailed ‘promise’ than they made before. Maybe it’s true. Very interesting that Canon are supposed to be supporting this as it implies, to me, that there is no replacement/update for the R5 anytime soon to a new model, just backwards compatible firmware upgrades.

I’ll believe it when I see it working but well done Atomos and Canon!


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## SonicStudios (Apr 29, 2021)

Atomos and Canon are delighted to be bringing customers a world first for capturing stunning pristine 8K images with such an affordable, capable and compact camera system. This will be a true game changer in content creation.

Atomos, Canon ... THANK YOU!!!


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 29, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Unless Canon releases firmware that includes 4:2:0 instead of the current 4:2:2


It will require new firmware anyway, but 10-bit 4:2:0 is kind of pointless to me.
8-bit is fine for delivery and 4:2:0 is not enough of a color gamut for editing.
8K 10-bit 4:2:0 is uncompressed and Canan already added IPB Light and Cinema RAW Light.
All that really matters is bandwidth but the less compression there is, the less strain and heat on the R5.


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## SonicStudios (Apr 29, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> It will require new firmware anyway, but 10-bit 4:2:0 is kind of pointless to me.
> 8-bit is fine for delivery and 4:2:0 is not enough of a color gamut for editing.
> 8K 10-bit 4:2:0 is uncompressed and Canan already added IPB Light and Cinema RAW Light.
> All that really matters is bandwidth but the less compression there is, the less strain and heat on the R5.


I think both companies are going to introduce a stream on May 5 to discuss all of this.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 29, 2021)

SonicStudios said:


> I think both companies are going to introduce a stream on May 5 to discuss all of this.


Canon will bring the Cuervo and Atomos will bring the Dos Equis.
¡Salud!


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## SonicStudios (Apr 29, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon will bring the Cuervo and Atomos will bring the Dos Equis.
> ¡Salud!


I’m bringing the Fosters and Guinness!!!


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 29, 2021)

SonicStudios said:


> I’m bringing the Fosters and Guinness!!!


Kind of late for that one, Mucker.


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## TravelerNick (Apr 29, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Unless Canon releases firmware that includes 4:2:0 instead of the current 4:2:2 then I am not sure how HDMI2.0 can be used. Note that 4:2:0 would be gratefully appreciated by the editors who don't have iPad Pro/M1 chipped PCs as 4:2:2 HW codecs aren't widely available.



4.2.2 HEVC is supported on all the latest Intel chips using the IGPU. Laptop and desktop . TheSho HEVC/265 option announced is 4.2.2.

Shouldn't real raw be 4.4.4?


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## TravelerNick (Apr 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Well that is a more detailed ‘promise’ than they made before. Maybe it’s true. Very interesting that Canon are supposed to be supporting this as it implies, to me, that there is no replacement/update for the R5 anytime soon to a new model, just backwards compatible firmware upgrades.



I'm guessing this is a prep for the R3 which will ship with the same/better video.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 29, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> I'm guessing this is a prep for the R3 which will ship with the same/better video.


I’m seriously excited about the R3, which almost certainly means I’ll be very disappointed! But if it is, as Canon say, positioned squarely between the R5 and 1DX III then it should be comfortably under $6,500 too.


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## Jethro (Apr 29, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> I'm guessing this is a prep for the R3 which will ship with the same/better video.


Yes, the R3 can't really be released with any lower spec. Am I the only one gobsmacked by what seems to be able to be done with firmware upgrades these days?


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## Joules (Apr 29, 2021)

Jethro said:


> Yes, the R3 can't really be released with any lower spec. Am I the only one gobsmacked by what seems to be able to be done with firmware upgrades these days?


If you look back at what Magic Lantern did with cameras like the 50D, 5D3 and some Rebels, you will see that you could always do a lot with firmware. Of late, Canon has perhaps developed a bit more motivation to actually do it.


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## koenkooi (Apr 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Guys this is exactly what Atomos have done before, say their hardware can support things the camera hardware is not capable of. Canon does not support 8k over the R5 HDMI port.
> 
> Nobody can get the HDMI port on an R5 to output 8k without firmware/hardware to the camera regardless of what Atomos say and there is zero reason to think Canon will do it because it would cost them a lot of money and they would earn nothing from doing it.


I suspect it's the difference between 8k regular video over HDMI, which would be YUV4xx data with all the CRT based blanking intervals around it and bandwidth allocated for high res audio and a custom compressed bitstream that the V+ can decode to 8k ProResRAW. 

However Atomos envisions this working, they need Canon to release at best a firmware update and at worst offer a 'conversion service' where you send in your R5.


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## peters (Apr 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Well that is a more detailed ‘promise’ than they made before. Maybe it’s true. Very interesting that Canon are supposed to be supporting this as it implies, to me, that there is no replacement/update for the R5 anytime soon to a new model, just backwards compatible firmware upgrades.
> 
> I’ll believe it when I see it working but well done Atomos and Canon!


My guess is, that they will keep their 4 years cycle in the professional series. I guess that the R5 II will come out in 3 years. 
In my opinion 3 years would be better to keep up with the latest tech, but 4 years worked so far quite good for me (coming from an 5D II, to 5D III, to 5D IV and 1DX II to the R5 finaly). 
IF they add external 8k RAW without overheat to the R5 - than this would make the camera easily up to date for 5-7 years. In combination with the great AF its a great little video camera thats just winning features =) 
If overheat remains a problem, than the R3 will likely be my next camera =)


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 29, 2021)

peters said:


> My guess is, that they will keep their 4 years cycle in the professional series.


It is kind of tough to compare the Canon 5 and 6 series to the A7 but Sony updates their A7 cameras whenever.
It is kind of tough to jump 4 years ahead of the competition and easy to fall a few years behind with a 4-year upgrade schedule.
On the other hand, Sony users are often frustrated not knowing when camera models will come out which is an argument in favor of a fixed schedule.


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## Stu_bert (Apr 29, 2021)

SGPhoto said:


> The R5, as far as I can tell, has HDMI 2.0 which supports 8k30 4:2:0 (as well as 4k120 4:2:0). While the manual says it's not supported, the HDMI hardware *can*. Assuming the rest of the hardware can actually support 8k over HDMI, I imagine there will be a firmware update to officially support this.


Yep correct. When the r5 came out last year there was speculation and my research concluded the same as you. 2.1 as was stated was too new in comparison to when most of the hardware for the r5 was concluded.

Given that Canon are doing it, then I’m confident the v+ will support it after the firmware update To the r5. Whether there’s more than just rerouting over hdmi (output at 4:2:0), it still should keep a lot of people happy.

I’d be very interested in knowing what chip is inside that justifies the near 3x increase over the v, and how much more the v+ will be able to handle.

Still, glad Canon has worked with them - albeit late to the party in comparison to Nikon, Sony, Panasonic but still, good that they’ve got a solution.


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## dak3 (May 1, 2021)

I am so happy that I did not buy the Ninja V this week when I initially considered doing so! I bought a Shinobi monitor instead in order to get its universal features on any camera. It's hard keeping up with all the technological camera changes every 6 months. My pocket-book is very happy at the moment, and I will only upgrade when all this sudden industry shift craze settles down for at least a year and several more options become available. What is Atomos going to do in 1 year from now? Release the Ninja V++ / VI when they decide that they will provide 8K 24/30/60 fps? I don't have $1,800 to spend every year. Heck, my Atomos Shogun Inferno is now obsolete according to future support; though I still use it and love it for my work.


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## jam05 (May 1, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> I would love 4K raw from the R5, but wouldn't it mean it'd be cropped? Not sure if the R5 can output a oversampled or pixel binned AND Raw image. This is why it already isn't available in camera. Unless the Atomos can do some of the processing? I don't know how that would work.
> 
> I doubt overheating will be an issue in a practical sense. There was a time when having the LCD screen on would cause overheating on the R5 even when outputting to a Ninja, but that's been fixed in a firmware update. 4K120 is the biggest culprit to overheating, so it might be technically possible to overheat with an external recorder, but I don't even know if this feature will be available. Currently the announcement says 4K120 is available with a couple Z-Cam models, and Sony cinema cameras utilizing the SDI Kit.


Yeah, don't overthink it. The announcement was made in coordination with Canon, but by Atomos. Expect to see another announcement from Canon with details of their own, from their own marketing team.


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## jam05 (May 1, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Yeah, don't overthink it. The announcement was made in coordination with Canon, but by Atomos. Expect to see another announcement from Canon with details of their own, from their own marketing team. Most likely with other added goodies.


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## Kit Chan (May 2, 2021)

Ninja Stream sounds like a good tool for vloggers/indie journalists.

Just tether it to a phone and live broadcast to your viewers from anywhere with cellular coverage.


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## john1970 (May 2, 2021)

Maybe be the too be released R3 will output 8K RAW over HDMI and the Atoms Ninja 5+ will work with the R3? Could the R5 be a typo?


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## Bdbtoys (May 2, 2021)

john1970 said:


> Maybe be the too be released R3 will output 8K RAW over HDMI and the Atoms Ninja 5+ will work with the R3? Could the R5 be a typo?


It's hard to say. I don't think any of us know the actual HDMI spec used. If the spec is 2.0 we could get it if limited to 4:2:0, if 2.1 we could get it. Both would require a firmware update.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 2, 2021)

john1970 said:


> Maybe be the too be released R3 will output 8K RAW over HDMI and the Atoms Ninja 5+ will work with the R3? Could the R5 be a typo?


Canon has not released R3 video specs.
No way they would let Atomos.


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## privatebydesign (May 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon has not released R3 video specs.
> No way they would let Atomos.


They wouldn't need to release the full specs to enable Atomos to know what the HDMI specs are. But companies often work in conjunction with third parties to facilitate accessories to be available on release.

I know some L-Plate manufacturers used to get dummy bodies well before release but now they get CAD files so they have to 3D print the mockups themselves. Same with underwater housing manufacturers.


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## SonicStudios (May 3, 2021)

Personally, I find the R5 and A1 TINY monitors not conducive for filming. Now we might be on the precipice of an unlimited 8K filming experience with the R5, viewing on a Ninja Cinco +, heck ya, I'm all in !!!

Hopefully, on RCinco De Mayo, Canon and Atomos will stream the details


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## EOS 4 Life (May 3, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> They wouldn't need to release the full specs to enable Atomos to know what the HDMI specs are. But companies often work in conjunction with third parties to facilitate accessories to be available on release.
> 
> I know some L-Plate manufacturers used to get dummy bodies well before release but now they get CAD files so they have to 3D print the mockups themselves. Same with underwater housing manufacturers.


Atomos is expected to make an official announcement on May 6th.
It sounds to me like they already have the camera and the firmware they need.


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## Refraction (May 3, 2021)

So does a Ninja V owner who pays the 99usd to upgrade basically get the same as the Ninja V+ which is much more expensive?


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## TravelerNick (May 3, 2021)

Refraction said:


> So does a Ninja V owner who pays the 99usd to upgrade basically get the same as the Ninja V+ which is much more expensive?



No. All you get is a 265/HEVC license.


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## TravelerNick (May 3, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Atomos is expected to make an official announcement on May 6th.
> It sounds to me like they already have the camera and the firmware they need.



They may have a beta firmware but that doesn't mean they're shipping the feature this week


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## filmmakerken (May 5, 2021)

A couple things -- the press release is specific that the V+ will "record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW when connected to a Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera." 
It DOES NOT say the signal will come from the HDMI port. While it is most likely that a firmware update will enable the HDMI port to send the data from the full frame 8K sensor there are other possibilities. 
The R5 has a USB-C port. There's no indication that the hardware allows streaming through this port BUT the USB-C port is more than capable of the necessary data rates.
It's also possible that they'll introduce a CF Express Adapter cable allowing the 8K stream to output to the V+. 
Again, it's most likely that a firmware update will enable the HDMI port to send the data to the V+.

My question is which is the better package -- the C70 (true 4K on a super 35 sensor) of the R5/V+ combo (pseudo 8K on a full frame sensor)?


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## TravelerNick (May 5, 2021)

filmmakerken said:


> My question is which is the better package -- the C70 (true 4K on a super 35 sensor) of the R5/V+ combo (pseudo 8K on a full frame sensor)?



I got to ask why is it pseudo?

It's going to be HDMI of some sort because they've implied it'll eventually rollout to other cameras. Those other cameras may not support USB . Plus if they allow USB out why do you even need a recorder?


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## filmmakerken (May 5, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> I got to ask why is it pseudo?
> 
> It's going to be HDMI of some sort because they've implied it'll eventually rollout to other cameras. Those other cameras may not support USB . Plus if they allow USB out why do you even need a recorder?


I was mistaken. I thought the R5 just did 8K UHD (7680 x 4320) but it is capable of DCI 8K after all.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 5, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> Plus if they allow USB out why do you even need a recorder?


Canon has no license to ProRes or ProRes RAW for the R5.
They could theoretically purchase and resell a license ProRes is an intensive codec and would probably overheat the R5 in five minutes.
When attached, the R5 is just pushing out a basic signal while the Ninja V is doing all of the encoding work,
Taking that load off might allow the R5 to record 8K indefinitely without overheating.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 5, 2021)

filmmakerken said:


> I was mistaken. I thought the R5 just did 8K UHD (7680 x 4320) but it is capable of DCI 8K after all.


It also records true 24 FPS.
That is why R5c would be a true cinema camera, unlike FX3.


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## TravelerNick (May 5, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon has no license to ProRes or ProRes RAW for the R5.
> They could theoretically purchase and resell a license ProRes is an intensive codec and would probably overheat the R5 in five minutes.
> When attached, the R5 is just pushing out a basic signal while the Ninja V is doing all of the encoding work,
> Taking that load off might allow the R5 to record 8K indefinitely without overheating.



I was thinking just sending Canon raw or raw lite out. With Prores the camera needs to take the raw data convert to a video signal .


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## EOS 4 Life (May 5, 2021)

TravelerNick said:


> I was thinking just sending Canon raw or raw lite out. With Prores the camera needs to take the raw data convert to a video signal .


Yeah, theoretically the R5 could record Canon RAW to an external USB SSD without overheating.
I am not so sure about RAW light.
That would be a game-changer and I think only Sigma does that.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 6, 2021)

Atomos is having a virtual event tomorrow.
Hopefully, we get an R5 demo.








Atomos Will Host Livestream and Give Away New Ninja V+


Atomos is hosting a virtual event to overview its new Ninja series.




nofilmschool.com




Here is the live-stream:




It sounds like V+ can only record 8K in RAW and only with the R5 right now which makes me doubt the processing power increase over the V.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 6, 2021)

"The Ninja V+ will record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW from the Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera via a standard HDMI 2.0 connection. Atomos and Canon have worked together for the *past 2 years* to bring customers a world first for capturing stunning 8K RAW and HDR images with incredible clarity and detail in a compact and configurable system that is very affordable when compared with other 8K setups. The possibilities you have when shooting in 8K are a true game changer. Canon and Atomos have democratized 8K for the masses with no compromise in quality. Coming later in 2021 with an update from Canon."

So Canon was working together with Atomos before the R5 was even released.
If this had come out at the same time as the R5 then there would be no overheating controversy.
Maybe Atomos was late and screwed Canon.

Atomos stated that they are ready and waiting on Canon to release the firmware update for the R5.


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## Besisika (May 6, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> "The Ninja V+ will record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW from the Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera via a standard HDMI 2.0 connection. Atomos and Canon have worked together for the *past 2 years* to bring customers a world first for capturing stunning 8K RAW and HDR images with incredible clarity and detail in a compact and configurable system that is very affordable when compared with other 8K setups. The possibilities you have when shooting in 8K are a true game changer. Canon and Atomos have democratized 8K for the masses with no compromise in quality. Coming later in 2021 with an update from Canon."
> 
> So Canon was working together with Atomos before the R5 was even released.
> If this had come out at the same time as the R5 then there would be no overheating controversy.
> ...


Good news. Will just have to think three, or even four times about the price.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 6, 2021)

Besisika said:


> Good news. Will just have to think three, or even four times about the price.


What bother's me is that the speaker made it sound like the only 8K supported will be RAW.
I take that to mean that it will not automatically support every 8K Camera that can stream 8K.
It seems expensive to use on just one camera but I will be fine if I use it on enough cameras to justify the expense.
Plus, if the Ninja V+ could generate 8K ProRes and H.265 then I can believe Atomos will add more features in the future.
If the processing power is already maxed out then the state it is in now is how it will stay.


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## filmmakerken (May 7, 2021)

I asked the question C70 vs R5/V+. Here are some stats -- 
The C70 with the EF-EOS R 0.71x adapter and recording media runs about $6550. 

The R5 with the Ninja V+ and the AtomX Sync and recording media runs about $6000. Add about $200 if you want the basic EF-RF adapter. (for reference, the Z CAM E2-F8 runs about $6000)

Both systems have SMPTE timecode — the C70 uses standard BNC cables, the V+/AtomX Sync uses the Timecode Systems wireless protocol. 

The C70 has better audio capabilities, which is helpful on ENG/EFP shoots & smaller productions but larger shows use timecode to sync to external audio recording anyway.

The C70 has built in ND filters, commonly used on ENG/EFP shoots but film style productions tend to use a matte box and filters in front of the lens. 

The C70 outputs 4K from a Super 35mm sensor while the R5 outputs 8K from a full frame (36mm X 24mm) sensor. 

I like the idea of 8K from a full frame sensor. It gives my cinematographer and VFX people more resolution/data to work with. 

It stands to reason that Canon will produce a cinema series camera with FF 8K in the near future and it will be compatible with the Ninja V+ via SDI. The question becomes “at what price?”

It'll be interesting to see hands on comparisons.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 8, 2021)

filmmakerken said:


> I asked the question C70 vs R5/V+. Here are some stats --
> The C70 with the EF-EOS R 0.71x adapter and recording media runs about $6550.
> 
> The R5 with the Ninja V+ and the AtomX Sync and recording media runs about $6000. Add about $200 if you want the basic EF-RF adapter. (for reference, the Z CAM E2-F8 runs about $6000)
> ...


You should replace the Canon EF adapter with either the Breakthrough ND adapter or the Canon variable ND adapter + the price of the ND filters.
C70 would still win on the audio, battery life, and dynamic range while the R5 would win on resolution, sharpness, IBIS, and versatility.


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## Chris.Chapterten (May 8, 2021)

I’m still trying to understand how 8k RAW is possible with HDMI 2.0? Is this 4:2:0 or something?


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## koenkooi (May 8, 2021)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I’m still trying to understand how 8k RAW is possible with HDMI 2.0? Is this 4:2:0 or something?


I suspect it's not done as a regular video signal, but as an unframed, compressed datastream. Which is what DisplayPort is in the newer version of the spec.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 17, 2021)

I find it interesting that Atomos had a live YouTube event with the FX6 and FX9 and no one seems to care.


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## privatebydesign (May 17, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I find it interesting that Atomos had a live YouTube event with the FX6 and FX9 and no one seems to care.


Why? This place is Canon first, sharpness/pixel density/resolution/diffraction second, birding third.... Video with a Sony is a practical non event here.


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## SteveC (May 17, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why? This place is Canon first, sharpness/pixel density/resolution/diffraction second, birding third.... Video with a Sony is a practical non event here.



Except, of course, to the Sony trolls.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 17, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why? This place is Canon first, sharpness/pixel density/resolution/diffraction second, birding third.... Video with a Sony is a practical non event here.


No one cares anywhere.
I would not expect people here to care.


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## SonicStudios (May 18, 2021)

Ahhhh, I thought something was weird, I didn't think the quality of the video was very good, they should have used their CONNECT and fired up an R5 hahahahahah


EOS 4 Life said:


> No one cares anywhere.
> I would not expect people here to care


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## goldenhusky (May 22, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Capabilities aside there is no setting for 8K or 4K/120 over HDMI so Atomos would have to be working with modified firmware.


I hope that is true and there is no hardware limitation


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## SonicStudios (Jun 23, 2021)

All right Canon, I now have the Ninja v+ arriving tomorrow, tag ur it


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## amazin (Jun 24, 2021)

So the Atomos Ninja V+ is out on the market now.
Does it need new, unreleased yet, firmware(s) on the Canon EOS R5 and/or the Ninja V+ to handle 8k/30p and/or specific ssd drives ?
Or does it work right now out of the box?


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 24, 2021)

amazin said:


> So the Atomos Ninja V+ is out on the market now.
> Does it need new, unreleased yet, firmware(s) on the Canon EOS R5 and/or the Ninja V+ to handle 8k/30p and/or specific ssd drives ?
> Or does it work right now out of the box?


1) It will require a firmware update from Canon.
2) It works with any SATA SSD if you can deal with that SSD sticking out of the side and flopping out of the side.
I couldn't and I ended up getting an ATOMX square SSD which fits perfectly


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## SonicStudios (Jun 24, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> 1) It will require a firmware update from Canon.
> 2) It works with any SATA SSD if you can deal with that SSD sticking out of the side and flopping out of the side.
> I couldn't and I ended up getting an ATOMX square SSD which fits perfectly


Out with the 4K old, in with the 8K new


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## SonicStudios (Jun 24, 2021)

NV+ comes in a really nice case, nice touch, KUDOs Atomos, ok Canon, ur turn


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## SonicStudios (Jun 24, 2021)

New case for NV+, nicely made


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