# Portrait photography - suggestions



## plam_1980 (Jul 18, 2011)

Hey everybody,

I wanted to ask for your suggestions, I am trying to improve my skills in portrait photography which I am doing at home, only as a hobby. Currently I have 550D with the kit lens plus 50 mm f1.8. I have already invested in 430 EX II flash, which I am expecting to arrive these days (I have half a room cleared for shooting but really no place for any other lighting and the room is not so bright).

I have the funds to improve my equipment and I was wondering between 5D mk2 or 7D + better lens. Also what lens would be more appropriate? 

All other ideas and additional recommendations will be highly appreciated

Cheers,

Plamen


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## triggermike (Jul 18, 2011)

If you intend to upgrade for portrait use, the full-frame 5d mkii is the proper choice. Some may recommend you wait as a mkiii version may be on the near horizon, but there is no certainty there.

Depending on the style of portrait work you want to pursue, other equipment is almost certainly going to be needed (monolights, backgrounds/supports, scrims, grids, etc.) The 7d is also a great camera and allows savings to be used for thes other items - something to consider.


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## bvukich (Jul 18, 2011)

For portraits, there would be no real advantage of a 7D over the 60D or 600D, besides micro focus adjustment. But I would recommend going with the 5D anyhow.

If you like shooting portraits with the 50/1.8, and it is a focal length/FoV you are comfortable with, I would also pick up the 85/1.8, or if budget allows the, 85L. For your next lens after that, the 135/2L is an excellent value.


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## steven63 (Jul 18, 2011)

Get the 5DmII and shoot outside (weather permitting) until you can get the proper lighting for indoor shoots. In a pinch, becaue of it's low light capabilities, the 5DmII will be more useful indoors than the 7D. For portrait shooting you will love the files the 5DmII produces.

Alternatively, you could get the 7D and pick up another flash with the savings v. the 5DmII. That's how I started - with the 7D and purchased two 580exII flashes/soft boxes because I could control them from the 7D. Works great for indoors because you can turn one flash way down and the other a bit stronger to give the soft shadow effect on faces - all from the camera.

Still, I prefer to shoot outside with my 5DmII...and the 7D for that matter. There are just so many other options available outside than in a stuffy room.

Don't forget lenses. If you go 5DmII you will want L glass with it as soon as possible. It won't be forgiving with low end kit glass.

So I guess my advice is go 5DMII IF you can buy the glass to go with it right away. Otherwise get the 7D with a fast L lens first. *The glass is more important than the body*. Work on your skills with that setup and then maybe by the time you feel good about where you are, the 5DmIII will be out!


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## plam_1980 (Jul 18, 2011)

Thank you all for the usefull insight, it is highly appreciated

What about the glass, I know it is most important, but what is best for this situation?

I mean isn't anything above 85mm too much for a room?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 18, 2011)

plam_1980 said:


> Thank you all for the usefull insight, it is highly appreciated
> 
> What about the glass, I know it is most important, but what is best for this situation?
> 
> I mean isn't anything above 85mm too much for a room?



i'm assuming the wider than 85mm recommendations were for a lens to go with a 5D MK II. Remember, for a FF sensor camera, the focal length you will want for the same composition as your crop will be 1.6* the focal length used on the crop. 50mm on crop use 85mm on FF, 85mm on crop use 135mm on FF.

Wide angle on FF is 24-35mm, and wider than that is a superwide.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2011)

plam_1980 said:


> I have the funds to improve my equipment and I was wondering between 5D mk2 or 7D + better lens. Also what lens would be more appropriate?



What sort of budget are you working with? The 85mm f/1.2L II on a 5DII is an excellent combination for portraits. But the 85mm f/1.8 on a 5DII is nearly as good (I often stop down from f/1.2 on my 85L for a little more DoF), and will produce better results than a 7D + 50mm f/1.2L, as an example.

The 135mm f/2L is excellent for head shots (an 85mm f/1.8 will give you similar framing on an APS-C body like yours).

Realistically, though, what makes a portrait is light (the same could be said about any photograph, I suppose...). IMO, the best place to spend your money is on lighting, and a 430EX II alone isn't going to cut it. Look at modifiers, especially softboxes (for a Speedlite, I like the Ezybox Hotshoe). You'll need more than one, and light stands, too. Better yet, monolights will allow more flexibility (opinions vary, but Paul C. Buff offers economical options of good quality). Look into radio triggers. Backgrounds and a support stand for them. 

Don't get me wrong - a FF camera and fast prime do great indoors, too. Here's an example:




EOS 5D Mark II, EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM @ 1/60 s, f/1.8, ISO 400

This was shot with a single 430EX II bounced off a white ceiling, and at f/1.8 on FF the fabric right behind the subject's head is blurred out (as is her left eye - see what I mean about thin DoF?). 

My point is that I think you'll produce better results with your current body (though I'd recommend getting the 50mm f/1.4 and/or the 85mm f/1.8 ) and control over light - both with the lights and the practice to use them. For the cost of the 85mm f/1.2L II, you can get a decent set of monolights, stands, softboxes, radio triggers, and backgrounds. 

Want a practical, real-world example? Go into a portrait studio, and you'll often see them using APS-C bodies and kit lenses (e.g. Canon 50D or Nikon D90 with an 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 lens), along with a standard 3-monolight setup (key light, hair/accent light, and background light) and pull-down backdrops. Yes, you can spend thousands on a FF body and ultrafast primes - and they're great for portraits. But the reason the 50/1.2L, 85/1.2L II and 135/2 are used for portraits is that they deliver a thin DoF which allows you to blur out a busy background and focus attention on the subject. That's necessary outdoors - but in a studio setting, _you_ have control of the background.


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## epsiloneri (Jul 18, 2011)

It depends a little bit on what kind of portrait photography. If you mean portraits in a studio-like setting, then your lighting options become much more important than both the body and lens. A large soft-box on a dedicated stand would probably be your best investment, with the possibility to fire your flash remotely. Those are used for more "traditional" portraits and give very pleasant results without sharp shadows. The next steps are filler lights, a second soft-box, "hair" light, background lights... well those are really not necessary but give you options to play around and vary your setting. You could also think about ways of controlling your background.

Do you have a good reason to upgrade your body? 550D is very capable and will produce IQ as good as the 7D. The 7D has other advantages, not applicable to hobby portraiture. The 50/1.8 is already a very good portrait lens for crop, but the 85/1.8 is even better (for closer portraits). 

550D to 7D is not worth an upgrade for your needs, IMO. If you want an upgrade, the 5D2 makes much more sense. Then you would need a longer lens, however; if on a budget, the EF 70-200/4L USM or EF 100/2.0 USM would be two very good alternatives for portraits. The zoom would give you more framing options, while the prime would give you the option of a really shallow focus depth. As the 5D2 is getting a bit old, I would suggest you hold on to your 550D for now. Perhaps you can buy one of the suggested lenses to play with while you wait for the 5D3 to come out.


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## unfocused (Jul 18, 2011)

Okay, I was typing while some others were posting. I think we are on the same page.

Portraiture is all about two things: the subject and the light. Neither one is going to be affected by a different camera body.

The first thing you have to do if be able to fire the flash off-camera. The only reason to move to a 7D would be so that you can use the built-in infrared transmitter. But, you can do the same thing by buying an ST-E2 or one of the Chinese knock-offs. 

You need to modify the light. The simplest and easiest way to do that is with an umbrella. Very easy to use and gives very nice, soft light. Buy one that allows you to convert from shoot-through to reflective, so you can practice with both techniques. 

After a few weeks with one strobe and an umbrella, you'll want a second and then a third strobe. Then you also start wanting other light modifiers (soft boxes, snoots, bounce adapters, etc. etc.).

Personally, I'd recommend the 580EXII for your next strobe purchase, primarily because of the availability of the accessory battery pack. It's very frustrating and embarrassing when your strobe can't keep up with the pace of the shooting and you can avoid that with the extra speed and boost of the battery packs. 

Spend a lot of time reading and experimenting. The Strobist website is a good place to start. Photoflex also sends out lighting lessons to people who sign up on their website. They are very good. And, Joe McNally's books are entertaining and good as well. 

I'm not saying don't upgrade you camera at some point, but if you really want to learn about portraiture, you'd be better off investing in lighting equipment at this point. Camera's change all the time, but the basic design of an umbrella hasn't changed in probably 50 years. 

Finally, while the light is important, it should really be all about the subject. The skill you really need is the ability to put your subject at ease and make them comfortable and natural while shooting. I used to work with a photographer who was very good at lighting, but couldn't relate to the subjects. I found I could get better portraits with a simple setup (often just a single light bounced off an umbrella and then concentrating on talking to the subject and making them feel at ease). 

Bottom line: portraits are about people. Lights, cameras and equipment are just accessories.


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## kennykodak (Jul 18, 2011)

unfocused said:


> Bottom line: portraits are about people. Lights, cameras and equipment are just accessories.


exactlly...


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## thejoyofsobe (Jul 18, 2011)

both the 600D (Rebel t3i) and the 60D have built-in wireless flash transmitters too. as opposed to the 7D they have an articulated LCD screen which is tremendously helpful for taking high and low angle shots.


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## plam_1980 (Jul 19, 2011)

I would like to thank everyone for the brilliant advices and explanations! 8)

I hope that soon I can share something worth sharing

Good luck to all


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## dstppy (Jul 19, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> My point is that I think you'll produce better results with your current body (though I'd recommend getting the 50mm f/1.4 and/or the 85mm f/1.8 ) and control over light - both with the lights and the practice to use them. For the cost of the 85mm f/1.2L II, you can get a decent set of monolights, stands, softboxes, radio triggers, and backgrounds.



+1 on this. Move away from the kit/entry level lenses -- I love 50mm for portraits on the crop and the build quality on the 1.4 is decent. The 85mm 1.8 however is really high quality as well.

If you take the 85mm outside on a nice day, it takes super shots as well.


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## gmrza (Jul 19, 2011)

unfocused said:


> You need to modify the light. The simplest and easiest way to do that is with an umbrella. Very easy to use and gives very nice, soft light. Buy one that allows you to convert from shoot-through to reflective, so you can practice with both techniques.
> 
> After a few weeks with one strobe and an umbrella, you'll want a second and then a third strobe. Then you also start wanting other light modifiers (soft boxes, snoots, bounce adapters, etc. etc.).



I would agree with that too - a brolly, lightstand and bracket with a coldshoe and brolly holder plus a flash trigger should probably be first on your list. Then get a piece of white polystyrene to use as a reflector (or even just buy a foldable reflector - they are not outrageously expensive).

Upgrade your camera and lenses when you find that they are limiting you.

To give an idea - this image was shot with a Powershot G11, using a single Speedlite with a shoot-through brolly and a reflector (which happened to be a monolight with a softbox that was powered off - I was too lazy to use a proper reflector).






http://www.flickr.com/photos/specular-images/5872620108/


If you assume that I could have used a white piece of polystyrene instead of the softbox as a reflector and any piece of black material instead of a studio backdrop then this shot required under $1000 worth of gear. Not that I would recommend a Powershot as a portrait camera, but it proves the point that camera and lenses are not everything.


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## akiskev (Jul 19, 2011)

plam_1980 said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> I wanted to ask for your suggestions, I am trying to improve my skills in portrait photography which I am doing at home, only as a hobby. Currently I have 550D with the kit lens plus 50 mm f1.8. I have already invested in 430 EX II flash, which I am expecting to arrive these days (I have half a room cleared for shooting but really no place for any other lighting and the room is not so bright).
> 
> ...



Improving your equipment will give you some extra quality in pictures, but improving your skills will make a HUGE DIFFERENCE.
Here's two suggestions by me:
The Perfect Portrait Guide: How to Photograph People
Portrait Photography: Secrets of Posing & Lighting


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## bycostello (Jul 19, 2011)

+1 with unfocuses...

your body is fine... and your lens, the 50mm is an 80mm wiht the cropped sensor which is perfect for portraits.

You want your lens close to your subject so your 430 is also fine. If you want to get fancy a 2nd/ 3rd flash for har and backround lights. But and off camera flash trigger of some sort is essential, the ste2 is great as you keep using ttl if you wish.

what you probably need more than anything is a light stand and light modifier such as a soft box or umbrella.


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## ronderick (Jul 20, 2011)

Funny that there was a similar discussion in my office a few days ago involving one of my co-workers and an intern on this subject. ;D

To sum it up, the good thing with starting in portrait shots (as opposed to landscape) is that you have more factors that you can control (it's easier to arrange a photo session with your subject as opposed to waiting for Mother Nature to stop the rain at the National Park which is 8-hour drive away).

Like what others said, primes are great for portraits since you get faster lens at an affordable price, and there's no need to worry about using a zoom lens to cover places you cannot enter on foot.

However, u'll probably need to invest in gears such as reflectors, strobe diffusers, strobe cable, wireless trigger, multiple strobes, etc. (The good news is that you can buy several of these items for the same price of a Gitzo tripod).

It's also nice to have another friend along, who can hold the reflector for you when you take shots of the subject.

Lighting system? You can always start out with outdoor lighting if ur not ready to invest in a studio setup.


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## NotABunny (Jul 21, 2011)

plam_1980 said:


> What about the glass, I know it is most important, but what is best for this situation?



Portraiture isn't a simple situation as it may seem. The kind of portraits that one can make can vary wildly. But at the same time, portraits are quite forgiving in regard to lenses, focal length wise and f-number wise. There are however lenses that are more versatile, and those are the lenses with a small F-number because they allow you to get a good background blur regardless of subject magnification; but is less useful in a studio.

As for focal length, it depends on what kind of distortion you like: amplifying (short FL) or reducing (long FL) depth / tridimensionality. Around 50 mm on a full frame should about what the human eye sees. Here is what I mean: http://www.stepheneastwood.com/tutorials/lensdistortion/strippage.htm

If you like to shoot indoors in environmental light, the body's maximum ISO is going to make a big difference (your 550D has up to 12800, so no problems there), but you should buy a fast prime for your current body and learn from that experience.



plam_1980 said:


> I mean isn't anything above 85mm too much for a room?



No. But it really depends on the room size, obstacles, sensor crop, focal length, and subject magnification. They all conspire. I've used 85 mm (F1.8 ) on a 1.6 crop (which means 135 mm on FF) in 3 by 3 (meters) room. It's tight, but you get shoulders and above with ease. (I hear that the F1.2 is not focusing very fast, but I didn't compare it to F1.8.)


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## 1982chris911 (Jul 21, 2011)

For portrait I guess the following would be a good equipment to start with nice results

Body: 5d MkII (more detail, better ISO) AF is not that important if you shot steady subjects so the 5d MKII one should work OK for you ... 

Lenses: 50mm f1.4 or f1.2L , 85mm f1.2L and 70-200 f2.8 IS II

So the 50mm is for indoor use and full body, 85mm tighter like shoulder or half body and the 70-200 makes a great flexible outdoor lens outperforming the 200 f2.8 L and being more flexible in regards of framing...


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## dr croubie (Jul 21, 2011)

1982chris911 said:


> Lenses: 50mm f1.4 or f1.2L , 85mm f1.2L and 70-200 f2.8 IS II



and if you can't afford all of that, try subbing out the 85 1.2L for the 85/1.8, sigma 85/1.4, or samyang 85/1.4, for a fraction of the price. Nothing wrong with no AF if it's a sit-down portrait 
70-200 f/2.8 non-IS can also save you a bit of scratch, especially if you're outside, well lit, and for portraits you'll be at f/2.8 anyway.


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## 1982chris911 (Jul 21, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> 1982chris911 said:
> 
> 
> > Lenses: 50mm f1.4 or f1.2L , 85mm f1.2L and 70-200 f2.8 IS II
> ...



For the 85mm I agree the L lens is of course a little overkill but if the funds are available you won't go wrong with it ...

For the 70-200mm I disagree for two reasons. First the IQ of the IS2 is significantly higher making primes in the longer range obsolete, till it comes to the very professional ones (200mm f2, 300mm f2.8 and 400mm f2.8) and together with Ext 2x III it will be quite usable till 400mm and secondly the IS2 will make it far better regarding the results as 200mm f2.8 is already quite hard to hold in low light without IS ... a third reason is that this lens is quite new and very stable in value, so money is not really lost as long as it in good shape. That is also true for the 85mm f1.2 compared with the third party ones...


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## ablearcher (Jul 21, 2011)

It all depends on your style/desired style of home portraiture. For available light you will need primes. You will also benefit from a 5D/7D body. However, if you are trying to build a studio-like setup, then you will mostly need lights & modifyers. And by lights I mean monolights, not the speedlights. The 550D will do just fine along with a decent zoom (personally, I am using 24-105L most of the time for studio shots). Don't get me wrong - I love primes, but for a studio setup they provide almost no benefit as you stop down anyway. I believe the most cost effective way to handle photography as a hobby is to know what you actually want to achieve and then picking up equipment accordingly.


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