# Be Carefull what you buy a true story



## colin1984 (Mar 30, 2012)

At first I´m from Austria so sorry for bad english and blah blah;

and second: hope it fits here

Well, monday one week ago, i surfed through ebay and other sites like this, and thought: "Why have all lens(es) be so expensive??" Don´t get this out of my mind, every one is talking that photographers job isn´t a future any longer, so there must be some photographer that have to close there salery, and also then there have to be a Internetsite, where this bankrot photographer or his lawyer would sell out everything just to get out of debt.

So i searched pretty much and than I found some very interesting Lens CANON EF 600 4 L IS USM the fist edition, prescribed pretty well, no smoking area, some scratches on the aloy exactly 3 (with pictures); and because this Person lost some Eye light, he have to sell it and offers it for €2000; all this in German written here is the link: but i haven´t it seen there I´ve seen it on a serious Trading homepage from Austria called www.bazar.at; so here´s the link:

http://nuduciqefa.blogspot.com/2012/01/canon-ef-600mm-14-l-is-usm-wimberly.html

I just thought man some scratches ok, a bit older 4years ok, about 200 photos ok, I think I should by these; and if all goes good maybe i can sell it; 

So I contacted him in German, and he respond in German but asks me if we could talk in english, where I´m think I´m not bad, so blah blah and a little bit after I send him the money;

Long Story short: Point one: Last Sunday was the last time I heard of him, 
Point two: Nothing is this, what it seems to be, especially when you think you make a good deal, checkt it twice and double and don´t search only for the Main Object I found a view more links only because i searched his sentence with his eye light;


Point3: I know I was very very naive, and the next time I ask here first what they think; the link above I found tonight I haven´t slept since yesterday 6am but this isn´t the only Site i found, and he also offers apartments, which doesn´t really exist, 

He has a dozen Name but I know him as 

[email protected]


With friendly Regards and be carefull what you by and by whom;

Colin McRae

P.S.: "Can I post his adress and bank account here?"

P.P.S.: I attached some pictures that you´ve been warned


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## briansquibb (Mar 30, 2012)

Ouch - you have my profound sympathy


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## JR (Mar 30, 2012)

Sorry for your story buddy. :-[


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## RedEye (Mar 30, 2012)

I hear you friend. I've had the same type of problems attempted with my ebay transactions, but in reverse, when I try to sell camera gear. Every time I'm contacted by people outside of ebay, and frequently I'm asked to send product to a seedy country such as Nijeria - which is not going to happen on my watch. 

I think ebay may have some protections in place for you, should probably check on that.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 30, 2012)

colin1984 said:


> Nothing is this, what it seems to be, especially when you think you make a good deal, checkt it twice and double



Very unfortunate! The bottom line is that if it sounds to good to be true, it's most likely a scam.


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## Axilrod (Mar 30, 2012)

Man that is terribly unfortunate, but nowadays there are people running scams all over the world. But I mean at that price, how could you think that was legitimate?

That lens is $10,000 new, and this guy is trying to sell it for $2699? Lenses hold their value very very well, so at that price you have to assume that either something is very wrong with it or that it's a scam. No person is going to just be a nice guy and sell their lens for at least $5,000 less than he could have asked for it, it just doesn't make sense.

It's the same as someone listing a 5D Mark III for $1200 or Mark II for $500. Or a 50mm f/1.2 or 85mm f/1.2 for like $400-$500. All of that sounds so insanely ridiculous to me that I wouldn't look at it twice.

Be careful next time! Thanks for the warning, but I think most Americans know a scam when they see one, we have been the main targets for years.


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## JRS (Mar 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> colin1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing is this, what it seems to be, especially when you think you make a good deal, checkt it twice and double
> ...




That's why you have to always use something like PayPal to pay...
Wire transfer is never a good idea if you don't know who you are dealing with...


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## colin1984 (Mar 30, 2012)

Thx guys, 

Yes it was just good to be true but as i sad there were some scratches and it´s the old model which is listed by us with €8000 new, and than the serious information, and my very very big ego, Which always said, I want it I want it I want that lens, so as I said very very naive thats my first time i Think i mean i had something similar with such kind of weight watchers where you have to travel for an evening to study and pay 60 for nothing, but it was kinda different than this, one,

I haven´t known that you americans were branded to this for years; , next time I´ll see something and my big ego is coming back and hadn´t learned from this doctrine I put it infront of the display and write a topic about it here if it hadn´t learned yet; ;-)

Definitly it was good to be true but hey better you loose money than eyelight, i hope i´ll run him across soon, 

I have a devilish plan 

So on looks like everyone except me know thes scammers, till now; 

With friendly regards 

Colin


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## Neeneko (Mar 30, 2012)

Sadly, even when something isn't 'too good to be true' it can be sketchy.

I recently had a transaction where the lens price was well within its sane range, did get the item (though it took 6 weeks) and it ended up having undisclosed damage. I am now much more reluctant to buy lenses from random individuals on eBay.


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## Z (Mar 30, 2012)

JRS said:


> That's why you have to always use something like PayPal to pay...



For buyers, PayPal is great. For sellers, chargeback scams are both commonplace and a nightmare. Seller protection exists, but make sure you stick to the rules or you'll be screwed: https://www.paypal-marketing.co.uk/safetyadvice/SellerProtectionOnEbay.htm


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 30, 2012)

Neeneko said:


> I recently had a transaction where the lens price was well within its sane range, did get the item (though it took 6 weeks) and it ended up having undisclosed damage. I am now much more reluctant to buy lenses from random individuals on eBay.



That's why I prefer Craigslist - you see and test the lens, on your own camera, before parting with your money. Plus, lower prices and no fees.


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## Neeneko (Mar 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> That's why I prefer Craigslist - you see and test the lens, on your own camera, before parting with your money. Plus, lower prices and no fees.



I occasionally poke craigslist, but find the selection to be too small and usually can not find any examples of what I am searching for.

That and I have significant social anxiety so the idea of dealing with sellers in person fills me with dread ^_^


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## colin1984 (Mar 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Neeneko said:
> 
> 
> > I recently had a transaction where the lens price was well within its sane range, did get the item (though it took 6 weeks) and it ended up having undisclosed damage. I am now much more reluctant to buy lenses from random individuals on eBay.
> ...



I´ve heard from craigslist, but haven´t found anything matching to photo here in my country and I can badly fly to the US, but u are right. In Vienna there´s something similar to craigslist; its called photoboerse.at sometimes you can get really good stuff there, this is also the sallery where i would´ve sold My "ficitve" EF 600


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 30, 2012)

Neeneko said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > That's why I prefer Craigslist - you see and test the lens, on your own camera, before parting with your money. Plus, lower prices and no fees.
> ...



Lol. It does depend on where you are - the Boston CL is very active, I even see superteles occasionally (400/4 DO and 500/4 fairly recently).

All the sellers I've dealt with so far have been personable and the transactions straightforward. I always meet in a safe, public location, sometimes outside my work (we have a full security staff), or at a Starbucks, etc.


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## Z (Mar 30, 2012)

I thought I'd give an example of a scam that was directed my way on craigslist a few weeks ago. I listed a lens for £550 and received this e-mail:

--------------------------



> From:
> nuvo williams ([email protected])
> To:
> [email protected]
> ...



-------------------------

This is a fairly easy scam to spot right off the bat. Things that made me suspicious were:

1) The gmx.com domain name is an unusual one - not suspicious in itself but scammers will always go for some free webmail accounts that are easy to create & ditch.
2) Nuvo Williams is a unusual name. Again, not suspicious by itself but it all adds up.
3) The message 'Hey..Do you still have it.?..' - it's hard to nail down exactly what's wrong with this message, but it's very brief and oddly written.

I wasn't sure if the buyer was legit at this point, so I replied:

-----------------------------------



> Yes, the item is still available.



-----------------------------------

The next reply confirms my suspicions:



> Alright, actually i am located in long island city and i just want to
> buy this item for my fiance, who is currently outside the country i
> will offer you the sum of £700 included shipping fees, i wish i can
> come over to your place to take a look at it but due to the running
> ...



Where to start...

1) My add says cash on collection only but the buyer requests that I post it to Long Island City (not even in the same country)
2) He makes an offer of way more money than I was asking. Incidentally this is more than it would cost him to buy the item new in the US, where he wants me to post it. Hilarious.
3) He has some sort of semi-plausible background story, but *time is always urgent*. This is a common part of the back story.

What would happen if I went ahead with the sale... I would probably receive the money through PayPal, but this would then be 'charged back' leaving him with both money and lens. I would be left to dispute seller protection with PayPal, who are not interested unless you can provide proof of signature on delivery.

My final reply was not rude, because I would rather the scammer not know that I have reported him.



> Thank you for your very generous offer, I appreciate your situation but unfortunately this is a cash in person only sale - as stated in the advert.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck in finding a gift for your fiance.



Nice and simple.

Of course he inevitably replied to this, but I ignored it. The final message back from him, for everyone's amusement:



> Yea the is truth but am not scammer and i really need this for her if you dont have a PayPal account you can log on to www.paypal.com and have an account with them once i have the infomation fro you i will make the payment to you now and you are going to get your money,Try to understand me ok



Try to understand me ok?? ;D


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## RedEye (Mar 30, 2012)

danski0224 said:


> Well, I have a really good deal right here.
> 
> Make me an offer.
> 
> Thanks.



LOL, nice. I have the Bible on an iphone app, and it updates about once a month, so I'm really starting to wonder what they're updating!


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## NOTNIKON! (Mar 30, 2012)

I’ve once tried selling a Nokia Camera phone on ebay and it would be bought within a few hours of posting it there. I thought great, this was easy. I got a confirmation from the purchaser that they have sent the monies via paypal and to send the phone to Nigeria etc, etc. I quickly checked out my paypal account and no monies were waiting there for me. I forward the e-mail to both paypal’s and ebay’s security fraud teams and they both confirmed it was a scam. Well, I just ignored the e-mail and reposted the phone on ebay; and same thing happened, and not only twice but a total of 4 times. This was about 3 years ago. Ever since that, I don’t trust ebay to sell or buy any products. My recommendation is, if you cannot not meet with the seller/purchaser in person in a public place (yes they may try to get you to go to a private location – don’t do it) then do not go through with the transaction!


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## KyleSTL (Mar 30, 2012)

RedEye said:


> LOL, nice. I have the Bible on an iphone app, and it updates about once a month, so I'm really starting to wonder what they're updating!



Bug fixes? Stability issues?

I'll echo Neuro's sentiments about craigslist, here in St Louis it is pretty active and the selection can be pretty decent (I'm sure not even close to NYC, LA, Chicago, etc - but it's still pretty good). As an eBay seller I know I can have items sold and gone in 1, 3, 5, or 7 days, but the 12% fees really cut into the sale price (9% eBay and 3% Paypal). Sometimes it takes a bit longer and more effort to move stuff on CL for the right price, but at least there are no fees. All the really good deals I've gotten have been on craigslist


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## danski0224 (Mar 30, 2012)

RedEye said:


> LOL, nice. I have the Bible on an iphone app, and it updates about once a month, so I'm really starting to wonder what they're updating!



If it is possible to save the text somehow, you could do that a couple of times and do a word comparison, I suppose. Or, even just a word count.


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## colin1984 (Mar 30, 2012)

yes just like this it happend to me

from him 
_________________

Hallo Kulovits ,


Das Canon EF 600mm 1:4 L IS USM & Wimberly Stativkopf ist immer noch zum Verkauf. Das Canon EF 600mm 1:4 L IS USM & Wimberly Stativkopf in London, Vereinigtes Königreich befindet. Der Kaufpreis mit der Post Steuern inbegriffen ist 2040 €. Ich benutze UPS für den Versand und Banküberweisung zur Zahlung fällig. Das Canon EF 600mm 1:4 L IS USM & Wimberly Stativkopf ist optisch und technisch in sehr gutem Zustand. Weitere Bilder sind in dieser E-Mail angehängt. Ich warte Ihre Antwort mit mehr Fragen. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Pedro



PS: Do you speak English? 
_________________

Then I ask him how old the lens is and how many pictures were taken

_________________
Hello Mark ,


The objectiv is 4 years old . I have made about 200 pictures with this objective . I wait your reply . Best regards Pedro
_________________

I ask him if he have pictures of lens and estimated shipping time

_________________

Hello Mark ,


The shipping will arrive in maximum 4 business days after the payment is made . The purchasing price with shipping and insurance included is 2040 euros . I think you want to say that the border taxes are free because we are in EU. Like i said the purchasing price with shipping and insurance included from London to Austria is 2040 euros . I use UPS for shipping and bank transfer for payment . More pictures are attached in this email . I wait your reply . Best regards Pedro 
_________________


I ask him if i could oversleeo that and talk with my "wife"

_________________
Hello Colin ,


No problem i can wait until Monday . After Monday i can't guarantee you that i won't sell the objective . Please let me know when you are ready to make the purchase and i will reply you with all my personal bank information's where to make the payment . I wait your reply . Best regards Pedro 
_________________


And here it was my fault I ask him to send me a picture of the front and rear lens and get back the same pictures again i will add it here

_________________
Hello Colin,


Don't worry feel free to ask me anything . Like you see in the picture nr 7 there is a little scratch . In rest , the front and rear lens are ok ,the objective is in excellent condition , optical and technically in excellent condition .Best regards Pedro
_________________


After that i told him on monday I will buy it

_________________
Hello Colin ,


Sorry for my late reply but i have some working to do and i don't have time to check my emails . The purchasing price with shipping included is 2040 euros .Here are my personal bank information's where to make the transfer . After you make the transfer please reply me with a scan paper from the bank transfer receipt and with yours full name and shipping address where to start the shipping procedure . I wait your reply . Best regards Pedro 



Pedro Gael Hernando Pascual 
175 Rushmore Road
Clapton ,London
Zip code :E5 0HD
United Kingdom

acc: 13107798 
sort code:602432  
Iban: GB97NWBK60243213107798 
bic: NWBKGB2L 
Bank :Natwest Plc
Branch address: 38 goring road, worthing west Sussex , bn12 4aq ,United Kingdom
_________________


I sended him the scan paper of my successfulled transaction

_________________
Hello Colin ,


I have received your email with the scan paper . Everything is ok . I will check my bank account tomorrow to see if everything is ok with the transfer. If the funds have arrived in my account , i will start the shipping procedure with UPS in the same day . I will let you know . Best regards Pedro
_________________

Nothing came up i wrote him on friday if he knew antything

_________________
Hello Colin ,


Monday i will check my bank account and start the shipping in the evening . I will let you know . Best regards Pedro
_________________


this was his last respond since then i sent him everyday if he had news for me or what happend, and then i found this said link on my start thread; after that I wrote him that he should send me the lens or my money back, or I will contact my lawyer as i said havent slept since yesterday, today i went with my gf to her housebanke cause she made the transaction at the meantime till i got my money from car accident; dont worry i´m ok and car nyeah it will repaired slowly just as i mentioned; Bank says she can do nothing which was due; Before we go to Bank I contact my Remedy which gave me two lawyers and by one i have a hearing on tuesday 10 o clock.

Trough the night i saved every Homepage where this EF was quoted; and also printed my conversation and the homepages as well; I know money away Lens wont come, but lawyer I don´t have to pay, and he will make it right and hopefully he get behind bar, i know the chance is very low, but it´s the hope that count;

I´ll be cleverer next time, thought that couldn´t happen to me, because normally i´m very very careful, but it´s just money I´ll get money again and when i´m adult i become a photographer  next year I´ll make my master


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## picturesbyme (Mar 30, 2012)

RedEye said:


> danski0224 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I have a really good deal right here.
> ...




I would check what are the apps' permissions? 
Does it have access to your phone's location, state, browser activities...etc.?
Whenever I download an app for my Android I read the description and it states what the apps wants to access... i.e. a calculator or book doesn't need to know my call history or my browser activities.. So if yours is like that .... besides the regular bug fixes it could provide them little updates from You...


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## wellfedCanuck (Mar 30, 2012)

It's the wild west out there.

I've had two experiences. The first was while trying to sell a 30' travel trailer on sites such as rvtrader. Over a year I received dozens of emails such as one quoted above- the time pressure, unavailability in person, sending a "purchasing agent", buying a gift for a brother or other family member. 

The red flags went up immediately- nobody buys a $20K RV sight unseen. Arrangements must be made for transport and license transfer, yet the buyer was always curiously unconcerned with these aspects of the transaction. AND- who sells an RV by Paypal?!

The worst tho, is that I have a handicapped sister who falls for internet scams all the time. Most of these are online-job type scenarios or contest wins which require shipping payments. She has sent close to $3000 in about 8 or 9 transactions over the past 3 years. I pull my hair out trying to convince her to always run these schemes past me before visiting the Western Union office but she is very independant. I'm in an awkward position of trying to guide someone who has the intellect of a child but is legally a competent adult.

I've spoken to Western Union and three different police departments, had statements filed and interviews conducted, but all the authorities ever do is provide sympathetic noises and issue safety lectures to my sister. 

It's a terrible thing- that there are people out there without conscience who prey upon the vulnerabilities of others, but that's the nature of the times in which we live. I only hope that there's some sort of cosmic justice or karmic retribution for these criminals.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 30, 2012)

Scammers count on greed. Some people want to believe that they can get that crazy low priced deal. 


Thats why those penny auction sites do so well, get a expensive camera for $50?? Yet they suck people in by the thousands.

The biggest source of frauds is in the USA, thats why so many target the US.


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## Neeneko (Mar 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lol. It does depend on where you are - the Boston CL is very active, I even see superteles occasionally (400/4 DO and 500/4 fairly recently).



Philly seems moderately active, but most of what I go looking for is vintage, which there just isn't much of it on the market in the first place. The lens I just got (the damaged one) I had been watching eBay for months before even a single one popped up.


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