# Problems with 6D front wheel & AF issue - Advice needed



## xps (Nov 4, 2014)

May I ask you for some advice:

My 6D has an temporary problem with the front wheel. I am (problem occurs sometime rare, sometime each hour one time) not able to change the setting (Av, time,...) with the front wheel. But the wheel on the high-format grip works well. (If I remove the battery grip, I does not fix the problem). I have to remove the battery for some minutes, then the front wheel works well again.
The second temproray problems belongs to the AF: In servo mode, it occurs that the AF stops working, although the trigger is pressed halfway. The I have to press the trigger button a few time, then it works again.
Did anybody have such a problem too? What was the problem of your 6D?

My problem is, that the CPS service company returned the cam without finding anything. They just took 5 shots (as the numbers of shots is just 5 higher than my last shot).


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## Marsu42 (Nov 4, 2014)

xps said:


> My problem is, that the CPS service company returned the cam without finding anything. They just took 5 shots (as the numbers of shots is just 5 higher than my last shot).



Argh, that's annoying - worse than things not working at all is "works sometimes and hard to trace". I don't know this behavior, but it does sound broken. Did the camera get wet in the past? Does the problem occur with all lenses (or without a lens), i.e. might it a broken lens-camera communication?

With cps, try to force them into seeing it as a warranty case by documenting the behavior by making a video with a second camera and give it to them with the 6d to see. They probably won't care about the proof, but will go really looking for the problem by spending more than one minute with the camera.


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## zim (Nov 4, 2014)

xps said:


> My problem is, that the CPS service company returned the cam without finding anything. They just took 5 shots (as the numbers of shots is just 5 higher than my last shot).



wow did you get charged for that?

If it's still under warrenty would it not be better taking it back to the shop and let them deal with canon?

Regards


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## Marsu42 (Nov 4, 2014)

zim said:


> If it's still under warrenty would it not be better taking it back to the shop and let them deal with canon?



This is no good in Germany. In theory, the shop who sold an item has to deal with warranty cases and cannot offload it to the manufacturer. In reality, all they'll do after a very short time after purchase (afaik 2 weeks) is also just send it to Canon with the same result, but w/o cps repair time. So the shop is just a proxy at a loss of time.

If you really want to go this route, you have to prove the problem, let them do multiple repair attempts and (let's say half a year later) then can try to sue them for the temporary value of the item. Imho trying to prove the problem to cps directly is the smarter route.


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## Tsuru (Nov 4, 2014)

I had the issue with the front dial not responding happen with my 6D a few days ago. I just turned it off and set it to the side for a few minutes then when I went back to use it again it was magically fixed. Disconcerting to say the least. It was the first time it has happened to me and while I do have a grip on it I did not try the dial on the grip. With no other evidence I was thinking that maybe the newer firmware that was released a few months ago might be a solution although I'm sure that Canon would have that documented when you sent your camera in. I'll see if I can get mine to fail again tonight.


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## Dekaner (Nov 4, 2014)

Just out of curiosity - did you phone CPS, explain the situation and then try to work it out with them before posting to the Internet?


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## mnclayshooter (Nov 4, 2014)

Out of concern/curiosity - can I ask how old these 6D's are that are starting to show this problem? How many shots have been taken? How many months of ownership? And also - I'm curious about the lens combo(s) that this occurs with... the 24-105 has had some communication errors due to a broken wire inside the lens - just curious if that's the combo showing the problem. 

I haven't had any problems with either of mine other than one of them initially having a broken power switch - but that was a mfr defect (broken plastic)... It wasn't easy to get them to repair it, but they eventually did.... it was a couple weeks at least of going back and forth with them over the issue.


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## Tsuru (Nov 4, 2014)

Mine's just over a year old with about 6500 pictures captured.
While I do have a 24-105mm I'm pretty sure I had my 70-200mm mounted at the time that the problem occurred for me. Again I've only had it happen the one time and I didn't need to do anything special to rectify the problem, just turn it off and leave it alone for a bit.


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks for your relpies.
Answers to your questions:
The 6D has been bought in May 2014 (as an exchange for my broken 5DII). New, no preowner. From May until now, I took 15500 shots. The problems occured with several of my lenses (16-35mm, 28-70mm, 70-200mm, 100-400mm, 100mm macro). With and without the grip mounted.

I phones Canon, but they told me, that the could not comprehend the problem. This problem has never occured before at an 6D, so there is no procedure for this problem defined. They will not accept an video, showing the problem due to their own company security (malware, virusses,...) and I could have maipulated the video. A video would be no evidence for having an problem with this 6D

The shop where I bought it, told me, that they can return it to Canon, but the repair is slower than using CPS. And an exchange will be done only, if the 6D is repaired often with the same problem.


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Tsuru said:


> Mine's just over a year old with about 6500 pictures captured.
> While I do have a 24-105mm I'm pretty sure I had my 70-200mm mounted at the time that the problem occurred for me. Again I've only had it happen the one time and I didn't need to do anything special to rectify the problem, just turn it off and leave it alone for a bit.



Turn it off and let it rest for a while.... this was the advice from Canon too.
But: The last time it occured, I was waiting a whole day long for an lynx. And when it appeared out of the thicket about 10m away from me - and I wanted to take my shots, this ****** camera did not work. You can imagine that this was not making me happy. 
So I had to switch to the 7D and got some very noisy shots @1600Iso....


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## Marsu42 (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> Thay will not accept an video, showing the problem due to their own compny security (malware, virusses,...) and I could have maipulated the video. A video would be no evidence for my problem.



This is really annoying, esp. as I was suggesting putting the video on the 6d sd card and give it to them with the camera. If they really said you could have manipulated the video, this is outright impertinent as you didn't arrive at the legal stage (yet), but only want them to show it's for real and what and how often to try to reproduce it :-(



xps said:


> The shop where I bought it, told em, that they can return it to Canon, but the repair is slower than using CPS. and an exchange will be done only, if the 6D is repaired often with the same problem.



Yes, unfortunately that's the way it is - with tech items, after multiple repair attempts so much time has passed that often the item has dropped in price considerably. Some people around CR suggest simply selling the camera in these cases (same with a nearly broken shutter), but personally I really cannot condone this. 

The best way still seems to be sending it to cps warranty again (and again), you might also try another cps service station. The other question: Did the shop tell you that they'll replace it after multiple repair attempts with a *confirmed* problem, or are they also so stubborn to say if it cannot be reproduced in a few secs you're on your own?

Last not least, if it comes down to them suspecting moisture damage, you're completely screwed I'm afraid to say :-\


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Thay will not accept an video, showing the problem due to their own compny security (malware, virusses,...) and I could have maipulated the video. A video would be no evidence for my problem.
> ...



The shop assistant told me, that they will exchange the Cam on their own costs, but they need to send it to Canon for at least 4 times. But this means a reparation duration of about 6-8 month! And this is not acceptable, as I own just the 6D and the 7D at the moment. And Canon will not announce a 5DIV or another FF cam in the next months.... And Sony will bring out its A7 successor in spring 2015.... to long in the future for me....


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Thay will not accept an video, showing the problem due to their own compny security (malware, virusses,...) and I could have maipulated the video. A video would be no evidence for my problem.
> ...



Well, the moisture problem is something I can not hear anymore.   My 6D did not get wet or "moistured". 
I had some problems with "moisture" in the past, when Apple told me that my 1 week old iPhone has been occidated inside, due to moisture (the joke was: My phone did not leave the O2 shop, as the display had an blue corner). And an moisture problem with my old 1DMKIII, when Canon told me that an wet Cam is out of warranty.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> I had some problems with "moisture" in the past, when Apple told me that my 1 week old iPhone has been occidated inside, due to moisture (the joke was: My phone did not leave the O2 shop, as the display had an blue corner). And an moisture problem with my old 1DMKIII, when Canon told me that an wet Cam is out of warranty.



I sympathize, esp. since a near-death experience with my 6d which self-repaired after 1.5 weeks - but it clearly was moisture in that case. However, I have recent cps experience with this and that's why I know that the "catch all" moisture theory is hard to disprove unless you're having a certified engineer's opinion on your side. I had to dump my old 100 non-L macro because they said it was moisture after the aperture broke down again right after they had repaired it :-(

But moisture or not, imho the budget 6d clearly is more fragile than the sturdier semipro-level cameras 5d3 and now esp. 7d2, and for paying less at the start it's a bit of a gamble how it'll end up.

Well, I'm fresh out of ideas I'm afraid to say, but let's hear how this case continues as it's interesting to know for other people who might have similar servicing problems esp. in the EU/Germany where cps and the legal situation is different from elsewhere.


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks.
I will post the result and the procedure to get it repaired - if Canon will do so.

Imho, I feel a little bit fooled. This is the third problem with an Cam/lens (1DMkIII, 300mm 2.8 ) I own from Canon until 2010. In the 40 years before, all problems (just a few) have been solved. 
But now, the service is not as good as it was before. Canon knows , how many Euros I have spent in their equipment. And this was really a lot of money. I do only require the warranty, Canon offers. But when Canon responds every problem with moisture or other issues, you know by your self, that this had never happened, you feel follished. 

Edit: It was in 2010 not 2012


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## Marsu42 (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> But now, the service is not as good as it was before. Canon knows , how many Euros I have spent in their equipment. And this was really a lot of money. I do only require the warranty, Canon offers. But when Canon responds every problem with moisture or other issues, you know by your self, that this had never happened, you feel follished.



That would because every dodo including me can buy a (d)slr and good lenses nowadays and shoot him/herself silly on digital vs. the good ol' film days - so Canon have raised the bar. 

My observation is that the "silver" cps level isn't good for much in the EU as it's free and doesn't require a lot of gear. So if you want real premium service with some leniency you got to have the platinum cps card which requires to pro camera bodies - that would exclude the budget 6d model.

For you, the US version of cps would be better - pay some money for it, but then get real service with discounts and some free vouchers now and then. Did you add all your previous equipment into the Canon service site, even if it isn't covered by warranty or cps anymore? If not you might want to try that and point them to it, hoping for a better treatment than "a video proves nothing" right now. Bottom line is, if it comes to money, gloves are off :-\


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## freophotos (Nov 5, 2014)

Hi XPS, I just started have those same two problems with my 6D. It's about 18 months old, and has probably done 100 000 shots. I have recently changed 3 elements in my system:

1. Using a 120-300 sigma with canon 2x III.
2. After-market battery grip.
3. After-market batteries.

I suspect it is the battery grip. I have removed grip and used a single battery, and the problems seems to go away, but as the problem seems intermittent I've yet to confirm the correlation.

My advice: Buy a 7D II, put the 6D in for warranty repair and sell it when it eventually returns fixed


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## Sporgon (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> May I ask you for some advice:
> 
> My 6D has an temporary problem with the front wheel. I am (problem occurs sometime rare, sometime each hour one time) not able to change the setting (Av, time,...) with the front wheel. But the wheel on the high-format grip works well. (If I remove the battery grip, I does not fix the problem). I have to remove the battery for some minutes, then the front wheel works well again.
> The second temproray problems belongs to the AF: In servo mode, it occurs that the AF stops working, although the trigger is pressed halfway. The I have to press the trigger button a few time, then it works again.
> ...



Are you using genuine Canon battery grip or an after market maker ?


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > May I ask you for some advice:
> ...


both. I own an aftermarket grip, but I rented an original grip from a friend. On both grips, the problem occured. If I use the 6D without grip, the problem occurs too.


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

freophotos said:


> Hi XPS, I just started have those same two problems with my 6D. It's about 18 months old, and has probably done 100 000 shots. I have recently changed 3 elements in my system:
> 
> 1. Using a 120-300 sigma with canon 2x III.
> 2. After-market battery grip.
> ...



My preference is to wait, until the 5DIV will appear on the market. I know, this could happen in 2016 or so... 
But my personal experience with my friend brandnew 7DII is not that, I expected in better Iso-quality. I know, this will make some persons here angry, but this is my opinion. We shot some lynx and wolves on monday in an small zoo near Munich. My 6D (on monday it worked 90% of the time) has an awesome low light capability. The 7DII is much better than my 7D, but not even as goog as the 6D´s. 
The AF system of the 7DII is better than my 7D´s. Both using an 100-400 L lens, he got much more sharp pictures of fast passing falcons. Again, if the bird is sitting in the dark trees, my 6D is superior.
Personally, I will wait until Canon announces an FF cam with the same IQ and an faster AF system. It is better to wait and buy an really satisfying Camera, than one, that is still not that Cam I wanted to have. My photoraphical knowledge is not so good, so I need some more technical support from the Camera/lens.


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## andrewflo (Nov 5, 2014)

I've occasionally had similar AF problems with my 6D as well. I don't think it was limited to just servo though, I believe it happens in single as well.

Basically, I'll take a shot and then start pressing my focus button to begin taking my next shot and it will be frozen up. I can't focus, I can't change settings, the camera is essentially locked up. Then after 1 second or so it'll wake back up and function again. This happens randomly, maybe once a month.

It hasn't happened for a while. I've read online several other people experiencing similar problems.

I tried updating firmware, multiple lenses, multiple (all genuine) batteries etc. No change.

However, recently it hasn't seemed to happen in the last 2-3 months. The only difference I can think of is that I started using Magic Lantern. Can't imagine that would _fix_ a software problem but hey who knows!


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

andrewflo said:


> I've occasionally had similar AF problems with my 6D as well. I don't think it was limited to just servo though, I believe it happens in single as well.
> 
> Basically, I'll take a shot and then start pressing my focus button to begin taking my next shot and it will be frozen up. I can't focus, I can't change settings, the camera is essentially locked up. Then after 1 second or so it'll wake back up and function again. This happens randomly, maybe once a month.
> 
> ...



ML on the 6D... Is this difficult to bring it on the 6D?
This AF problem occured from June to July, after this time it got worse and the AF was freezing totally. A reset had to be done by taking off the battery


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## andrewflo (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> andrewflo said:
> 
> 
> > I've occasionally had similar AF problems with my 6D as well. I don't think it was limited to just servo though, I believe it happens in single as well.
> ...



Magic Lantern is extremely easy to put on the 6D (but do so at your own risk). Tbh, I don't think installing ML will fix your issues. I was merely pointing out the irony in my case.

It sounds like your issue is much worse than mine 

Have you tried a firmware update? Didn't do anything for mine, but that would be my first step troubleshooting for a software issue like this.


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

andrewflo said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > andrewflo said:
> ...



I have the latest one on the 6D, but I will try to overwrite the existing one. Thanks


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## Tsuru (Nov 5, 2014)

I tried replicating the problem last night with no success. I too have an aftermarket grip with one OEM battery and one third-party battery. Since the third party battery has been starting to have problems with my OEM charger I'm leaning towards that being the problem.


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Tsuru said:


> I tried replicating the problem last night with no success. I too have an aftermarket grip with one OEM battery and one third-party battery. Since the third party battery has been starting to have problems with my OEM charger I'm leaning towards that being the problem.


I use only original Canon batteries, as third party batteries did not work on my 6D


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## Actionpix (Nov 5, 2014)

I have the same problem. My first 6D went straight back because of button malfunction. The second has the front wheel problem as mentioned. Went back, parts were replaced and contacts were cleaned. Problem remained. Guess Canon just sucks nowadays.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> I use only original Canon batteries, as third party batteries did not work on my 6D



More batteries work if you downgrade to the 1.1.3 firmware (which is also required to run ML). Canon has introduced additional checks with 1.1.4 which otherwise is quite useless, that's why ML skipped it.



Actionpix said:


> I have the same problem. My first 6D went straight back because of button malfunction.



When push comes to shove and you cannot return a camera, it's possible to exchange the wheel functions with ML so you essentially loose ec but keep a working Av/Tv adjustment (though that isn't in the stock ML distro). I did a lot of key remapping with my personal 6d ML compile since Canon's options are very limited.


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## jhaces (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> I use only original Canon batteries, as third party batteries did not work on my 6D


What firmware do you have? I'm hesitant to upgrade mine for this reason alone, and am currently VERY happy with my 6d (currently 62k photos taken)

I've had some AF problems but it turned out to be a crappy 40mm pancake. Had a bad run with the warranty and after the third time of sending it and having it returned with a "cannot replicate problem"* I figured it'd be cheaper to just buy another one. The new one works great and have not had any problem with the 6d whatsoever.

*This was dumb, since I've been able to replicate the :-X problem on every single camera I've come across but somehow Canon managed not to replicate it. Given that the lens starts making crushing sounds whenever the AF is engaged, I'm absolutely certain that they didn't even hook the lens to a camera :'(


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Firmware 1.1.4 - the latest FW.
I will trý to downgrade the FW to 1.1.3. Let me see, if the problem can be solved by this way.

@ Marsu: Thanks for the tip to rearrange the button fuction. But.... But I am a little bit shirty, if I will have to do so. Canon is able to fix this. The Cam is 5 month old and has not been stressed by any external influences like moisture e.g. I will not accept the same bla bla from Canon, as I did four years ago when my 1DMkIII had an "moisture" problem. Sorry, if Canon is not willed to repair this problem, this will be my last Canon.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> @ Marsu: Thanks for the tip to rearrange the button fuction. But.... But I am a little bit shirty, if I will have to do so.



Note that it is *possible* with ML, but you have to code it yourself (in C) or request it in the ML forum or ask someone else who can do it for you. ML is very weak on usability improvements atm, imho they've painted themselves a bit into a corner with low-level stuff in the pull requests and there's no commit into nightly for a months.



xps said:


> Canon is able to fix this. The Cam is 5 month old and has not been stressed by any external influences like moisture e.g. I will not accept the same bla bla from Canon, as I did four years ago when my 1DMkIII had an "moisture" problem.



That's the spirit  and most likely it'll help you to hear from other people who got broken equipment back from Canon after only a very quick, rough check. I imagine sometimes it does help to apply pressure and threaten legal action, but I'm not very good at this.



xps said:


> Sorry, if Canon is not willed to repair this problem, this will be my last Canon.



Afaik Nikon has an even worse reputation for service though, but I've hard good things about Pentax as they're in more need to get customers into their system. Basically, you either have to pay a lot of €€€ up front for a premium brand like Leica or pay a lot of €€€ for service with mass-market brands like Canon.


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## xps (Nov 5, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > @ Marsu: Thanks for the tip to rearrange the button fuction. But.... But I am a little bit shirty, if I will have to do so.
> ...



True. Nikon Service is a hoax. Friends of mine had severe problems with their D600. It took a year until Nikon did anything against the dot on the sensor problems.
Pentax? Ok. I´will have a look at. Do you know somethin about Sony´s service?
The coming successor of the A7 would be interesting....
Maybe with the new per-pixel-exposure sensor


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2014)

xps said:


> Sorry, if Canon is not willed to repair this problem, this will be my last Canon.



Can you reproduce the issue at will? If not, does it recur at a frequency high enough to occur in a few minutes of testing by a technician, which is all they'd reasonably spend diagnosing a problem? If both answers are 'no' it's unlikely they'll be able to observe the problem, a prerequisite for fixing it. 

The video concern surprises me, though. When the 1D X was new, I came across a bug with the AFMA setting. I called Canon, they couldn't replicate it and told me to send the camera in. Instead, I made a video of the issue and posted it to my Flickr account, then emailed the link to the technician. He emailed back agreeing there was a problem, and said he'd escalate it. Posting the same video on a couple of forums elicited some excellent diagnostic help which identified the cause of the issue (enabling orientation-linked AF point caused AFMA to misbehave). I passed that along to Canon, the issue was fixed with the next firmware. Of course, a key difference was that my issue was reproducible.


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## xps (Nov 6, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, if Canon is not willed to repair this problem, this will be my last Canon.
> ...



Yes, the problem is, that the issue occures sometimes one time an hour, on aonther day just once.
The second thing is, that you own the highend model, and I don´t.
And the third thing is, that here in Germany, the CPS silver membership (as I do not own an 1D... model anymore) is not the same than the one in the US. The service comanies are "invited" from Canon to repair the Cams on the cheapest way. Sometimes getting spare parts from broken Cameras too (had an issue with my 7D 2 years ago. got it repaired, then two month later the same problem occured again. and the service company told me that this time they used an new spare part, not an remanufactured/used one...)


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## Marsu42 (Nov 6, 2014)

xps said:


> The second thing is, that you own the highend model, and I don´t.



+1...



neuroanatomist said:


> The video concern surprises me, though. When the *1D X* was *new*



There you go, and that's what might be annoying to mere mortals - at least in my experience, if you walk in with non-L lenses, cheap cameras or a minor cps level (in the EU cps is free) you cannot expect the same level of service.

I admit I don't have enough cases to support my opinion, but I do know the difference in treatment they gave me on the local cps counter with my 60d and 20years old 28-105 lens vs. at least a 6d with a 70-300L. From a purely commercial point of view, this might be reasonable, but it's still annoying if dealing with problems that are harder to track.


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