# Which camera should I buy for a first timer



## Salah Yousef (Aug 10, 2013)

Hello everyone. This is my first post here. I am a 22 year old student at a college majoring in electronics and communications. Soon as am done with college am moving to a film school to learn about filmmaking. However, right now am educating myself with filmography and video shots by reading books. The only thing left for me is buying a camera. Which camera do you guys recommend me buy for a first timer ? Same thing with accessories. My budget is 1500 

Regards,
Salah


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## kaihp (Aug 10, 2013)

I think the first thing you need to say is what currency you're talking about, since this is an international forum. So do you have 1500 Euros, Pound sterling, USD, HKD, RMB or something entirely different.

Since you're a first-timer, and going to film school soon, I would look to buy some second hand equipment.

There are a couple of assumptions behind this: first, that the film school has equipment for classes), and secondly, that you probably won't have much time (or much desire) to go filming on your own outside of class.

At least that would match my brother's experience when he went to photojournalism school.


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## verysimplejason (Aug 10, 2013)

From my limited experience, since you're going for film-making, I'd recommend a second-hand 5D2 + 24-105L lens (or some other manual lens for film-making) or a 70D + 18-135 IS STM lens. 5D2, if you really want to go hardcore fast since image will be a lot better though you'll have to do everything in manual (you can learn and use ML to make your life a little bit easier) while 70D will give you AF. You can also read on some more in http://www.eoshd.com/. They can give you more insights on film-making and its rudiments.


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## wjauch (Aug 10, 2013)

You're a student and I'm assuming your budget is $. I'd suggest a used T2i, or T3i, or T4i with kit lens. Then get used nikkor AI or AI-s lenses from ebay e.g 24mm, 35mm, 50mm 85mm with nikon-eos adapters. These are all manual lenses and preferred for filmmaking. You'll need a tripod. Home depot for a couple of worklights or other lights. Audio is half of filmmaking, an ebay AT875 mike, shockmount, painters pole as boompole (google it), a used external recorder (Zoom or Tascam), sync audio in post. Importantly you should be able to sell anything without too much loss in the future. Good luck


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## blacksap (Aug 10, 2013)

wjauch said:


> You're a student and I'm assuming your budget is $. I'd suggest a used T2i, or T3i, or T4i with kit lens. Then get used nikkor AI or AI-s lenses from ebay e.g 24mm, 35mm, 50mm 85mm with nikon-eos adapters. These are all manual lenses and preferred for filmmaking. You'll need a tripod. Home depot for a couple of worklights or other lights. Audio is half of filmmaking, an ebay AT875 mike, shockmount, painters pole as boompole (google it), a used external recorder (Zoom or Tascam), sync audio in post. Importantly you should be able to sell anything without too much loss in the future. Good luck



Totally agree! Primes are the way to go for film making! and old lenses specially nikkor are pretty good, I would suggest T3i, according to this page snapsort.com it has better higher isos than t4i and t5i, and it is cheaper.

DONT BUY IT WITH THE KIT LENS 18-55 blind as Sh!7 lens, use that money for something better, like old primes. 

Another option would be the g6 m 4/3 camera, it has some cool features that no canon has like 60fps for slow motion on 1080p and it is very easily paired with old lenses with adapters bought on ebay. 

hope this helps.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 10, 2013)

The 70D looks very promising, especially for making films. However, I'd wait for two or three weeks to see more reviews. 

Since you are going to school, its important that you find out from your instructors what their requirements are. Repeat this 1000 times  


In our local school, the instructors first require a film camera and a 50mm lens. Then, in the 2nd semester, once you have learned about film photography and the basic underlying principles that are common to all photographers, they begin teaching digital. 

They also have courses that teach the many other aspects, lighting, composition, processing (film and digital).

Video is a different ball game entirely, they might want you to have a camcorder or a DSLR, or let you use school equipment, you need to find out. The lenses and accessories you use for video can be mostly different too. Sound is 50% of the final product, so plan on a lot of emphasis on sound and lighting. Don't buy anything until the instructor tells you what is required. Craigslist is littered with castoffs that were not wanted or needed because a student jumped the gun and bought something that was perfectly good, but not what the course required.


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## bycostello (Aug 10, 2013)

go cheap.. it will show you what is important to you and then revisit in a year or two....


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## heptagon (Aug 10, 2013)

bycostello said:


> go cheap.. it will show you what is important to you and then revisit in a year or two....



This! If it has manual focusing and manual exposure you can start to learn with any camera.


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## Etienne (Aug 10, 2013)

Canon T3i (can be upgraded when you have more money). This camera also has useful digital zoom in movie mode.
Install Magic Lantern
Buy some good lenses: Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 and a Canon 50 1.4 may be all you need. 
Tiffen 77mm variable ND filter Must! Get a 58mm-77mm reducer so you can use the Tiffen on the 50 1.4 as well -this will get you all the shallow DOF you will ever need,even in daylight.
You will need Audio gear: Rode videomic pro, get a Zoom H4 or H6(better)
Tripod
Slider, if you can afford it.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 11, 2013)

I forgot to mention that my budget is in USD. 

Sounds like am getting a T3i

Thank's everyone. I appreciate your replies. If I have any other questions I will ask here. I will let you guys know what my gear will be later.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 11, 2013)

Salah Yousef said:


> I forgot to mention that my budget is in USD.
> 
> Sounds like am getting a T3i
> 
> Thank's everyone. I appreciate your replies. If I have any other questions I will ask here. I will let you guys know what my gear will be later.


I'd suggest you forgo a out of date T3i and consider a refurb t4i. Its compatible with Canons new STM lenses which have smoother focusing for video. The T3i is not optimized for a STM lens. All future Canon DSLR's will likely be optimized for STM lenses. The T4i and T5i are almost identical, so you don't need a T5i. The T3i will not autofocus for video and does not have the touch screen.
When you do video with a STM lens, touching a point on the screen will cause the camera to smoothly change focus to the new point. 
You can trade in a worthless old Canon film slr or a broken power shot for a 15% percent discount off the refurb prices. They are like new and have the same 1 year warranty as new.


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## Etienne (Aug 11, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Salah Yousef said:
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> > I forgot to mention that my budget is in USD.
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Autofocus on T4i and T5i are worthless for filmmaking, They will hunt and are unreliable.
The T3i has handy 1080p digital zoom, and is cheaper at the same IQ
There are no good STM lenses yet, and who knows when they will be available.


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## jdramirez (Aug 11, 2013)

Etienne said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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Manual focus and practice are still the way to go. 

I would ditto the t3i, same overall quality and performance as more expensive crop sensors... you can pick up a used one for around $450 or so, and if there is enough cash, the 24-105 is a very nice complement to it. The IS is excellent. I was shooting stills in a cave the other day and the IS really save my butt. Sure I had a 5D mkiii, but the lens really came through.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 11, 2013)

Etienne said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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Maybe you need to get yours repaired  

The 18-135 and the 18-55 have good reputations for a low cost video lens. He does not have a $10k budget, so even if there were expensive STM L lenses available, they are out of his reach. There are other video lenses that have smooth AF, but they push him out of his budget as well.

Of course you can manually focus, and do it well once you add that $5-10K worth of accessories, external monitors, focus pullers, the list is almost infinite.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 11, 2013)

I can afford a T4i if that's what you guys suggest. Should I get it ? http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-Rebel-T4i-vs-Canon-Rebel-T5i


I can't afford a CANON EOS 5D Mark III http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Frame-Full-HD-Digital-Camera/dp/B007FGYZFI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376203569&sr=8-1&keywords=CANON+EOS+5D+Mark+III

I can afford T4i but in snapsort the T3i wins.

What do you guys think of this http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-75-300mm-Telephoto-Accessory/dp/B004Q79BIA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1376203770&sr=8-2&keywords=canon+t3i

http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Camera-55-250mm-Telephoto-Accessory/dp/B00A2ATBTO/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1376203806&sr=8-14&keywords=canon+t4i

Says in this video that the T4i cis not compatible with Magic Lantern http://www.magiclantern.fm/ unlike T3i


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## scottkinfw (Aug 11, 2013)

I bought a t4i kit for my son similar to this and it worked great. Of course, you have to learn how to use it. In fact, he got some excellent shots with it, and we even did some video which turned out great- a cow elephant protecting her cub and charging me. No problems in the bush, and he took thousands of pics. The lenses are good but not "L". Not a problem for a beginner, as you will limit your growth, not the camera.

Happy shooting.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Etienne said:
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## heptagon (Aug 11, 2013)

T2i and T3i have the same sensor. T4i adds in mediocre live view phase detection focusing.

T3i has video zoom (1:1 pixel video instead of line skipping) which some people like to use.
T3i has better phase detection AF compared to the T2i (can't remember exactly what but i think center point is same but outer focus points are better).

I don't think you'll need any feature the T4i provides. The 70D could prove worthwile but it's not out yet.

Magic lantern could be useful for learning because it offers you deeper control of the camera.

I'd get the T4i with the two kit lenses. They are not very good but you have every focal length 18-250mm covered and can add a decent prime to that (31mm would be 50mm full frame equivalent).


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## jdramirez (Aug 11, 2013)

Salah Yousef said:


> I can afford a T4i if that's what you guys suggest. Should I get it ? http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-Rebel-T4i-vs-Canon-Rebel-T5i
> 
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> I can't afford a CANON EOS 5D Mark III http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Frame-Full-HD-Digital-Camera/dp/B007FGYZFI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376203569&sr=8-1&keywords=CANON+EOS+5D+Mark+III
> ...



Don't get the 75-300... it simply isn't a very good lens. Image quality is poor, no image stabilization... tons of chromatic aberration... the 55-250 is much better... but if you can wait a while, there are rebate deals periodically that will make a t3i and a 55-250 a much better value.


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## distant.star (Aug 11, 2013)

.
If it were me, I'd do nothing until this guy weighs in:

paul13walnut5

He works in video and seems to have a penchant for economy.

You might send him a message also.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 11, 2013)

Thank's for your replies guys. You really are helpful. A friend of mine suggested I get a camcorder. Since I'll be shooting films most of the time. What do you guys think ?

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders


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## GDub (Aug 11, 2013)

Another +1 for the T3i. I still have my T2i (even though I invested in a 5DM3) and use it often. The main advantage of the T3i is the articulating screen--which is VERY useful for composing video and stills. For optics, I'd skip the kit lens and get a EF-S 15-85mm IS USM. Great lens plus IS! This combo will make you smile. And Magic Lantern is a must. It's super easy to install and bumps the camera up with a whole range of "high end" features.


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## tiger82 (Aug 12, 2013)

Why hasn't anyone recommended a T5i w/18-55? Or with one of the newer Rokinon Cine lenses?


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## jdramirez (Aug 12, 2013)

tiger82 said:


> Why hasn't anyone recommended a T5i w/18-55? Or with one of the newer Rokinon Cine lenses?



Because the t5i and t4i are basically the same body, the 18-55 Stm len is still and stm lens and the technology for smoot auto focus still isn't at an acceptable level, and with that in mind, manual focus is going to be the same regardless if you are using a t4i, t5i, or as many of us suggest, t3i. 

As for the Rokinon... they are good, but I don't believe they have image stabilization and something like the 15-85 with IS or the 24-105 with IS might be a better option.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 12, 2013)

Thank's everyone. I bought a Canon 600D/T3i. It comes with 18-55mm lenses. 

What do you guys recommend for good lenses and accessories ?

I have a tripod and small bag where I can put the camera and one lens.


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## Etienne (Aug 12, 2013)

Salah Yousef said:


> Thank's everyone. I bought a Canon 600D/T3i. It comes with 18-55mm lenses.
> 
> What do you guys recommend for good lenses and accessories ?
> 
> I have a tripod and small bag where I can put the camera and one lens.



You are going to need all of the following to make a decent film:

Install Magic Lantern
Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 and a Canon 50 1.4 may be all you need. 
Tiffen 77mm variable ND filter Must! Get a 58mm-77mm reducer so you can use the Tiffen on the 50 1.4 as well -this will get you all the shallow DOF you will ever need,even in daylight.

Audio gear is a must: Rode videomic pro, get a Zoom H4 or H6(better), boom pole. Bad audio ruins good footage everytime.
Tripod
Slider, if you can afford it.


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## jdramirez (Aug 12, 2013)

Etienne said:


> Salah Yousef said:
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> > Thank's everyone. I bought a Canon 600D/T3i. It comes with 18-55mm lenses.
> ...



what about one of those weighted inertia devices that look like a C. those smooth out hand held and walking shots.


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## Etienne (Aug 12, 2013)

jdramirez said:


> Etienne said:
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They are good for lightweight camcorders. I use a Shape bracket with dual hand grip ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/734304-REG/Shape_wlb_PA1100_PAPARAZZI_I.html I mount the camera sideways and screw a hand grip on the end to get dual grip) This Paparazzi II looks good http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/734317-REG/Shape_wlb_PA1200PRO_PAPARAZZI_II_PRO.html. Some people like the circular grips like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/381894-REG/Manfrotto_595B_595B_Fig_Rig_Camera.html . 

I also use a shoulder brace (homemade one).


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 13, 2013)

Etienne said:


> jdramirez said:
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What's the paparazzi thing used for mind if I ask ?


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## Etienne (Aug 13, 2013)

Salah Yousef said:


> Etienne said:
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Hand held camera work, and you can attach accessories like Audio recorder, mic, external monitor


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## paul13walnut5 (Aug 13, 2013)

I recommend waiting.

I recommend waiting and seeing what kit the college has that you can hire / borrow.

Use the time in the meantime to get to grips with your camera, try the settings, read some books on what kelvins are (very important for video) set yourself little tests like 'today I shall shoot with my lens set to 50mm only' etc.
You will learn perspective.

Unless your college is shooting on ENG's or s16 etc then it's likely that there are EF mount lenses kicking about somewhere in the department.

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket then I would look at decent support. A tripod. A Sachtler. Ace.

Crawl, climb, stumble, walk, run. You don't need your nike airs just yet.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 13, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I recommend waiting.
> 
> I recommend waiting and seeing what kit the college has that you can hire / borrow.
> 
> ...



I won't go to college now. I will apply within the next 2-4 years. I bought the camera to educate myself for now.


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## paul13walnut5 (Aug 13, 2013)

Salah Yousef said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
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Don't make the newbie mistake of buying a lot of gear on other folks advice.

Use what you have. As you progress you'll hit walls, then buy the gear you need to climb over them.

There are five solutions to every problem, and your problems are not mine, or anybody elses.

I'll stand by the tripod suggestion though.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 13, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


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Am thinking of getting an external mic and lenses that's all.
However I still don't know what lenses I should get.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 14, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-77VND-VARIABLE-FILTER-Camera/dp/B004Z55VP0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Is this the Tiffen filter that you recommended me to buy ? Will it fit on my camera ?


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## verysimplejason (Aug 14, 2013)

Salah Yousef said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-77VND-VARIABLE-FILTER-Camera/dp/B004Z55VP0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> 
> Is this the Tiffen filter that you recommended me to buy ? Will it fit on my camera ?



That's a good VND. If it were me, I'll just buy the 82mm if it's available and then just get step rings. Your filter size will depend on the size of your lens filter threads.


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## jdramirez (Aug 14, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> Salah Yousef said:
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I prefer hard plastic hoods over filters and some step up rings aren't well made so they can get stuck in the grooves, so you want to be careful with those. I have heard stories of people having to cut off the step up ring and it sounds awful.


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## Salah Yousef (Aug 14, 2013)

Could you guys post Amazon links to the lenses that you recommend.

Am getting http://www.amazon.com/Rode-Videomic-Shotgun-Microphone-Rycote/dp/B00CAE8PM4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1376488069&sr=8-3&keywords=dslr+external+microphone

what do you guys think ? ;D


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## dgatwood (Aug 24, 2013)

If your main purpose is shooting video, I'd probably steer you towards something that was actually designed to shoot video rather than a still camera that just has video functionality grafted on as an afterthought (as all DSLRs do, IMO). Don't get me wrong, you can certainly shoot movies with a DSLR, but IMO that's like buying a Toyota SUV to tow the space shuttle. It can sort of do the job under the right circumstances, but it isn't really the right tool for the job.

You can probably find a used XH-A1 or even an XH-A1S in that price range. They have image stabilization that actually works well for video purposes (unlike DSLRs). They have dual XLR audio inputs with phantom power (as opposed to an unbalanced 1/8" connection with no phantom power like DSLRs have), a switchable ND filter, manual control over pretty much everything, zebra stripes to quickly spot overexposed areas, etc. They're designed to be a "grab it and forget it" all-in-one ENG/EFP package, and they do that job well.

About the only thing the XH series doesn't have is a removable lens, but the superzoom it comes with is reasonably solid, IMO. It has a 35mm photographic equivalent range of 32.5mm - 650mm (and that's before you kick in the digital zoom) at f/1.6 to f/9.5, depending on zoom setting. You probably won't want to use it at its widest setting too often because of the barrel distortion, but that clears up nicely by about 6mm (equivalent to a 43.2mm FOV on a full-frame camera).

If you can manage to save up a little more money, I've seen used XL-H1A camcorders for somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500. That's the removable-lens version of the XH-A1. In addition to supporting special-purpose XL-series lenses designed for the XL series of camcorder, it also can be adapted (officially) to use EF lenses (with a whopping 7.2x crop factor).


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## LANA (Aug 29, 2013)

Here is a site have some info about T4i and T5i, if you are interested, check out the details


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