# Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 24, 2014)

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<p>There are couple of reports today saying that Canon plans to leave the sub $200 compact point and shoot market. The segment has been decimated by smartphones over the last 3-5 years and sales are no where near what they were.</p>
<p>The move makes a lot of sense, Canon would be better suited putting development dollars into DSLRs, lenses, advanced compacts and the Cinema EOS lines.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigicame-info.com%2F2014%2F02%2Fpost-570.html" target="_blank">DCI</a>] via [<a href="http://photorumors.com/2014/02/24/canon-is-considering-to-withdraw-from-the-low-priced-compact-digital-camera-market/" target="_blank">PR</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## takesome1 (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

Correction.

Canon has already been removed from the sub $200 point and shoot market.
They have already been replaced by smart phones.
Like the house guest at the party that just will not leave, Canon seems to have hung around to long.


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## dhofmann (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

Optical zoom will always outperform digital zoom, and there aren't yet many smartphones with optical zoom (and those that do look like the neighbor kid's toys on Toy Story), so smartphones haven't yet replaced, for example, the $90 Canon PowerShot A2200.


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## RGomezPhotos (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

That makes good sense. Good move.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

Fixed lens cameras accounted for ~46% of the total revenue from digital cameras last year. In general, the cheaper models of a given product line outsell the high end models. Seems like a lot of ¥ to throw away.


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## risc32 (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



dhofmann said:


> Optical zoom will always outperform digital zoom, and there aren't yet many smartphones with optical zoom (and those that do look like the neighbor kid's toys on Toy Story), so smartphones haven't yet replaced, for example, the $90 Canon PowerShot A2200.



no, the party's over. they called "last call" a couple years ago canon just hasn't noticed. They should also stop making what they are making with their other nonSLR cameras also. They stink. go big or go home. or what will more than likely happen, the market will send you home. i just hope they leave with a couple bucks in their pocket.


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## rowlandw (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

There are way too many overlapping and unexcing p&s models of all makes to divide a shrinking pie.


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## Hesbehindyou (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Canon Rumors said:


> Canon would be better suited putting development dollars into DSLRs, lenses, advanced compacts and the Cinema EOS lines.



How many development dollars does it take to put the guts of a mid-range model in a slightly larger body with crippled firmware?

That said, with sales falling off a cliff Canon will be losing the economies of scale that made the tight margins in this sector worthwhile.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



rowlandw said:


> There are way too many overlapping and unexcing p&s models of all makes to divide a shrinking pie.



I'm not so sure that's true. Yes, if you look on Amazon or the Canon (or other vendor) website, there's a huge selection. But, a) at those price points, a difference of $15-30 is a differentiator, and b) P&S sales are at brick-and-mortar outlets are a major fraction. The plethora of similar models gives _distributors_ a choice - Target and Walmart often sell slightly different models, for example.


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## Dylan777 (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late :


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## cliffwang (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



dhofmann said:


> Optical zoom will always outperform digital zoom, and there aren't yet many smartphones with optical zoom (and those that do look like the neighbor kid's toys on Toy Story), so smartphones haven't yet replaced, for example, the $90 Canon PowerShot A2200.



Of course people know the $90 A2200 has better IQ. Years ago people use P&S camera because of the convenience. Now they have better choices, smartphones, because it's much more convenient. If they really care about IQ, they probably use dSLR already. Nokia phone has 40MP camera, Sony phone has 20MP camera, and now Samsung phone has 16MP camera. In two years every phone maker will have build-in 20MP+ camera. I can see most people don't need a P&S camera in few years. Canon should make FF attachable Lens-style camera like Sony QX10/QX100. I think that's the future of the P&S.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Dylan777 said:


> FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late :



don't see how this changes the equation. Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)...

Mirrorless doesn't get you to facebook. Mirrorless doesn't let you watch youtube. Mirrorless doesn't let you do video chat. Mirrorless doesn't give you a dataplan! Mirrorless does not give you angry birds, words with friends or candy crush saga, or any of the other apps like that.... Mirrorless won't get you to porn (unless you film it yourself)...

Those not buying entry level P&S cameras kind of want 1 device. Cell phone cameras for the most part are pretty much as good in most situations as a p&S - mind you, we're talking about very casual shooters here. Mirrorless is way more expensive, not as capable (for what that market wants). Mirrorless, especially FF mirrorless is gonna only appeal to a unique niche mix of pros, hobbyists and enthusiasts or those who travel a lot!

Either way, it makes sense, anything below slr's has to offer something compelling, and entry level P&S's are far from compelling!!!!


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## jrista (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



neuroanatomist said:


> Fixed lens cameras accounted for ~46% of the total revenue from digital cameras last year. In general, the cheaper models of a given product line outsell the high end models. Seems like a lot of ¥ to throw away.



Based on the actual article (translated from japanese), it doesn't sound like they are exiting immediately. The chart does show some fairly significant declines in the market (by about 40%) since 2010. The article also says they will be halving their market participation every couple of years...so they aren't going to be exiting over night. They will be diminishing their presence in the ultra low end range of that market, and shifting the excess resources to other cameras at the higher end of the range of that market. It doesn't even sound like they are going to be shifting the resources to DSLRs...just more lucrative compact camera models and accessories.

It really doesn't sound like they are throwing away money, it sounds like they are shifting their resources to maximizing the potential of that market where there is still potential to be had. 

Also, the article was japanese...who knows if it really has anything to do with the sales of these models in western countries. If they are still making money on them here (I kind of doubt they are making all that much still, especially with the likes of the iPhone and Lumia 1020 on the market), they may still sell them here.


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## unfocused (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Fixed lens cameras accounted for ~46% of the total revenue from digital cameras last year. In general, the cheaper models of a given product line outsell the high end models. Seems like a lot of ¥ to throw away.
> ...



AT LAST...SOMEONE ACTUALLY READ THE ARTICLE!!

This drives me nuts on this forum. People see a headline and start commenting without bothering to go to the original source and read was was actually written. 

I read it the same way Jon did. They aren't making some announcement about leaving the market, they are just assessing the current and possible future market situation and suggesting that they will reduce their presence and concentrate on niche models that can be sold at greater profit. 

There is really no news here.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



jrista said:


> Also, the article was japanese...who knows if it really has anything to do with the sales of these models in western countries. If they are still making money on them here (I kind of doubt they are making all that much still, especially with the likes of the iPhone and Lumia 1020 on the market), they may still sell them here.



FWIW, the Americas and Europe each accounted for ~30% of fixed-lens cameras in 2013, so 'western countries' are buying the majority of P&S cameras (although the distribution of high end vs. low end could vary by geography).


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## jrista (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



neuroanatomist said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Also, the article was japanese...who knows if it really has anything to do with the sales of these models in western countries. If they are still making money on them here (I kind of doubt they are making all that much still, especially with the likes of the iPhone and Lumia 1020 on the market), they may still sell them here.
> ...



So, is that 60% of a market that shrunk by 40% over the last three years, or a broader market? I mean, if the market is shrinking, and western countries were the bulk of the sales in that market, then that would seem to mean that the bulk of the shrink in market share came from us as well.

So even if we are the major buyers of "fixed-lens cameras" (that's pretty broad right there...it encompasses more than the sub $200 camera market), then I am not really surprised by the article or the claim that Canon is going to ease out of the ultra low end of that market. I know a LOT more people these days have the Lumia 1020 here in Colorado. I see them everywhere now (I have the Lumia 920, and the large lens on the back of everyone else' Lumia is always telling me I need to upgrade! ) Everyone else has an iPhone...I rarely ever see anyone taking pictures with a cheap P&S anymore...everyone does their photography with their phones (and there are of course the few nitwits who take photos with their giant iPads as well.)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

I suspect that Canon is losing money on the low end cameras. Even if they sell a ton of them, losing or making no money in order to move them is not all that smart, and spending more money to develop, tool, stock, and advertise new models is a poor investment. Canon is seeing good sales of the super zoom P&S cameras, and they make a high profit, so I expect to see more emphasis on them. The SX50 has received very high user ratings.


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## lopicma (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

I would still rather use a point and shoot camera than a cell phone... Only advantage the phone has is the post processing features... which may indicate I took a bad picture to begin with. LOL

Anyway, I hope Canon can catch up to the likes of Sony, Pentax and Olympus - and FAST! Both Nikon and Canon have fallen behind in innovative features, and in some cases current technologies.

Come on Canon, I'm routing for you!


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## J.R. (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

Interesting take by Thom Hogan on this news

http://www.gearophile.com/newsviews/canon-retreats.html



> Canon more so than any of the other compact camera makers seems to be taking more of a “if you can’t beat them, join them” approach towards smartphones at the moment. Whether that’s enough to keep the rest of their compact line alive remains to be seen.
> 
> What Canon’s new compact lineup looks like is this: waterproof cameras, cameras with huge focal length ranges, the N series I just described, and the very high end G1x and G## cameras.
> 
> ...


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## Rienzphotoz (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



neuroanatomist said:


> Fixed lens cameras accounted for ~46% of the total revenue from digital cameras last year. In general, the cheaper models of a given product line outsell the high end models. Seems like a lot of ¥ to throw away.


When they say "leave the entry level point & shoot market", maybe they mean not develop any more new designs/models but continue to sell the existing ones ... which would mean they don't need to spend more money on R&D, designing teams etc ... in which case they may not be throwing away the ¥


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## cbphoto (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

I'd be interested in a Canon smartphone, assuming it had an open architecture for apps.

We haven't used either of our Canon p&s cameras in four years—since we bought iPhones.


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## Daniel Flather (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media. That's what killed P&S cameras. Quality means nothing in this segment.


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## Rienzphotoz (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Daniel Flather said:


> Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media. That's what killed P&S cameras. Quality means nothing in this segment.


True, I think convenience beat out quality here ... I shoot more with my smart phone than any other camera. of course none of them are for artistic reasons, I use my smartphone to take pictures of newspaper adverts, take photos of important documents (and use it as a scanned copy), restaurant menus, screen shots and whatnot. I suppose for those who are not "into" photography, a smartphone is far more better and convenient/useful than any high end camera or camcorder.


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## Don Haines (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

And with Sony introducing a smartphone with a 20 megapixel camera, water resistent to 5 feet, and shoots 4K video, this is an awful hard market for a non-phone to compete in.....


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## Dylan777 (Feb 26, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Chuck Alaimo said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late :
> ...



Instead of using R&D resources to develop 100ish diff. P&S, Canon now can use that R&D resources in decent mirrorless. FF mirrorless I hope. 

Canon can kick start with FF mirrorless + 20mm F4 pancake. Follow with 17, 35, 50, 85mm pancake style.

I didn't buy A7r due to DR crap. I bought it for few reasons - compact and FF IQ(higher ISO). I wish Canon would release something like this soon so we don't have to discuss this topic ever again


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## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 26, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Dylan777 said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



I still don't get how FF mirrorless changes this equation man. Like I said "Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)." If your looking to spend $200 on a camera (which is what we're talking about here, entry level stuff) then how is FF mirrorless R&D going to help? This market segment isn't gonna buy anything over $1000 - save the select few who want to take it to the next level. 

To put it on another level - even mirrorless APS-C doesn't fill the current entry level niche. They could push out a mirrorless rebel for instance, the $600-800 with lens price tag won't be appealing. The are people that are ditching cameras with better IQ for cell phones...


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## jrbdmb (Feb 26, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Dylan777 said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



I don't think you can compare a $100 P&S to a $2300 A7r. 

Unless economies of scale change dramatically, FF mirrorless will never make a significant dent in the market due to its high cost.


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## jrista (Feb 26, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Rienzphotoz said:


> Daniel Flather said:
> 
> 
> > Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media. That's what killed P&S cameras. Quality means nothing in this segment.
> ...



I think its not just convenience...its the whole "the camera in the hand" argument. I mean, it's convenient having a camera on your phone...but the big issue is that, everyone has their phone. It's ALWAYS on their person. No matter how good a dedicated camera device may be, the only camera that really matters is the one you have on your person, the one you can put in your hand at a moment's notice. There is really no competing with a universal device that is always on and always in hand. Phone camera controls are often very inconvenient. Even Lumia's new Nokia Camera software, while better, is still not convenient. It's tedious. But it's the camera I have in hand all the time.


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## Rienzphotoz (Feb 27, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



jrista said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel Flather said:
> ...


Agreed, and that's what I meant by convenience.
Cheers


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## lopicma (Mar 16, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

I'm looking at my 2 PowerShot cameras - an old A720 and an A2200. While all the specs would be/should be better on the A2200, the A720 has a superior lens package. The A2200 blows it away otherwise.

A720 8mpix
5.8-34.8mm f/2.8-4.8 MACRO capable focus is 1mm or closer!

A2200 14 mpix
5.0-20.0mm f/2.8-5.9

Maybe if Canon had put more effort into lens technology in these low end cameras they would take better pictures than a cell phone? I guess the point is moot now. :-\


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 16, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



lopicma said:


> I'm looking at my 2 PowerShot cameras - an old A720 and an A2200. While all the specs would be/should be better on the A2200, the A720 has a superior lens package. The A2200 blows it away otherwise.
> 
> A720 8mpix
> 5.8-34.8mm f/2.8-4.8 MACRO capable focus is 1mm or closer!
> ...


There are plenty of P&S cameras that take far superior images than any cellphone ... but the majority of the people only want a convenient device that does it all, including taking photos, so if the better lens technology is not in the the cellphone camera, than it means nothing to them.


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## slclick (Mar 16, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

Who needs those billions?


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## Chuck Alaimo (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*



Rienzphotoz said:


> lopicma said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking at my 2 PowerShot cameras - an old A720 and an A2200. While all the specs would be/should be better on the A2200, the A720 has a superior lens package. The A2200 blows it away otherwise.
> ...



Yup, canon would be better suited partnering with one of the cell companies and making components for cell phones - lenses, or processors, or image sensors than fighting an un-winnable fight to get more cell users onto P&S cameras.


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## CanNotYet (Jul 30, 2014)

*Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?*

Bumping this. I think the final move to erase the market for budget P&S has been made: http://samsungcamera.com/samsung-introduces-the-galaxy-k-zoom/


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