# Finally did a few paying jobs now what?



## KKCFamilyman (Sep 3, 2013)

I got a chance to shoot a bday party, baby portrait, corp event. And wondering where do I go from here.
Started a site (work in progress) but just not sure where to invest next for props advertising etc. any suggestions would be helpful

Www.allophotography.com

Could have used props for the baby. Could have used a macro for the baby but want to spend my money wisely. Gear is in my sig.


----------



## rpt (Sep 3, 2013)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I got a chance to shoot a bday party, baby portrait, corp event. And wondering where do I go from here.
> Started a site (work in progress) but just not sure where to invest next for props advertising etc. any suggestions would be helpful
> 
> Www.allophotography.com
> ...


I liked your pictures but macro for the baby? Very confused! Could you explain?


----------



## frumrk (Sep 3, 2013)

I guess the bigger question is... where do you want to go from here?

Are you looking to do this full time... or are you just looking for part time business? 

If you want to get into photography as a business... you will soon find that "Photography" is only a small part of the business. You need to get some training on SEO and Advertising as well as many other aspects of the business. If you want to continually get new clients...then Advertising is a very big part of the business. Also.... if you are looking to go full-time/part time, what type of photography are you trying to focus on. You should display that prominently on your header page on the web. Probably start a blog, create a Facebook page, twitter...etc. All that ... maybe not necessary but most people are doing it... and it is definitely beneficial for someone starting out.

I won't comment on the web page as you said it is a work in progress... but I will say that I wouldn't show all of your photo's in one place. On your header page you should have no more than 3 to 5 of your absolute best photo's (maybe only one depending on your design).

I've been working on creating a photography business for over 6 months now... and I still have a lot to do. I am planning on specializing in Weddings/Portraits... and I've finally booked my first paid wedding.

Not trying to dissuade you... and I am sure that there are plenty on here that will give you advice... but just sayin.... you got a lot of work to do... 

Good Luck!


----------



## adebrophy (Sep 3, 2013)

As commented above, your next investment is in your business plan - particularly as you have some awesome kit! Work out your target customers. Will you sell to families, or to businesses? Are there routes to clients like PR or marketing firms that need regular access to photography? Understand how much you need to earn to make this a worthwhile plan, and work out how many days you'll need to earn that at the rates the market can bear (do some competitor research to get a sense of rates). Be realistic about how many days you'll be able to sell. Factor in equipment costs per year and other things like insurances and marketing costs. In other words, start making lists and spreadsheets. Boring advice, sorry! ???


----------



## KKCFamilyman (Sep 3, 2013)

frumrk said:


> I guess the bigger question is... where do you want to go from here?
> 
> Are you looking to do this full time... or are you just looking for part time business?
> 
> ...



Thanks
Part time. Just taking it as the jobs come and trying to tweak the site and other social networks in the upcoming months. I just needed to get something going since people are starting to ask and pay. I wanted to deliver the pics with a protected link and make money on the prints. Got sick of burning discs and i feel it will separate me from those photographers. Specialty would be portraits/events (bday parties, corporate) would love to do weddings eventually but want more experience in client expectations and guaging their wants before I take on a wedding. Care too much.


----------



## leGreve (Sep 3, 2013)

Next thing you have to do.... well... you have to do a lot of things.... but a good one is:

Learn to "kill your darlings"...

I know you wrote it's a work in progress, but frankly that doesn't justify putting everything and doubles up of the same situation.
Sort your stuff out, exclude the baddest photos (bad lighting, bad crop, uninteresting photos etc), don't show the same image twice. Like the girl on the swing... it's basically the same shot seconds apart. Or that bloody shot with the kid in front of the red blob... Ugh!
And the duck...? get rid of that!

And please remember, just because a "client" likes what you brought them, does not mean you should then immidiately put up that photo on your website. Clients have notoriously bad taste... there's a big huge gulf between "a good photo" and "a photo worthy of using for advertising for myself".

Another thing... take some paid photographic courses. With all due respect, I think you'd land a whole lot more paying customers by upping your skills A LOT than you are throwing money at gear or props.
Photos get made by the mind holding the camera, it almost doesn't matter what the hands of the mind are holding...


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Sep 3, 2013)

Some nice little touches in the portraiture, getting down to the kids eye level etc. Great.

I'm really sorry to say, but not much else to write home about.

My first advice would be to join a club, take a class, you've got some nice kit, but IMHO you aren't getting anywhere near the best out of it. There are lots of folk out there who have spent a lot of money on a camera and thereby became a professional photographer. Don't be that guy.

I say this with the best of intentions. 

For example:

On your homepage (the first thing folk see when looking to book you) you have a family reel, three or four shots of the same pose.

A shot along the path in the park with your shadow cast in the foreground.

Consistent under exposure. Plenty of colour in the clothes and scenes, why aren't they popping?

Kids in sillouhette in the shade. This betrays a complete lack of rudimentary camera craft. Seriously.

The duck. No eyes. Anybody could take this shot on their compact or iphone, why would somebody pay you? If it's a living thing then classically you really want to have the eyes in, in focus, and with a catch light.

The last shot of (your son?) on the swing bench, it's underexposed and full of motion blur. We all take shots like this. But we probably don't share them, not as evidence of our work at least, which we want you to pay for.

I know this is bad form. I know that on flickr and forums we are supposed to play nice... well I am playing nice. The best advice you will receive based on what you've presented is, go and enjoy your photography. Learn the camera. Learn the operations. Learn the flash. Learn composition. You've asked the question, and this is the most tactful answer I can come up with. You aren't ready. Yet.

Post more as you go along. Ask for honest feedback. Accept some. Reject others (as you are free to reject this)

Sorry I can't be more positive.


----------



## takesome1 (Sep 3, 2013)

I would suggest not putting up works in progress sites.

Get rid of the underexposed, poorly framed, OOF pictures and only show the best of your best.

Some people can be brutal. Do not take it that way, everyone on this forum has taken underexposed, poorly framed and OOF pictures. If they say they haven't they lie.

The art is knowing which to show.


----------



## Jay Khaos (Sep 3, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I say this with the best of intentions.
> 
> ...



I agree 100% with this. It kind of does look like scrolling through an unfiltered iphone camera roll... BUT the thing is... it doesn't have to... 

Out of this entire I set, I would keep maybe 5 for display (even less once you have more to add). If this is your portfolio that you plan to get new work from and show strangers—treat it like a portfolio or resume, where less is more.

For example, one nicely composed/edited shot of your daughter smiling looks better than when the same shot is included in a set with 10 others that are similar but where she isnt paying attention, composition is off, exposure isnt as good, etc. Because then instead of looking like a nice composition, it looks like a lucky shot—and more importantly, it makes it look like the photographer can't interpret that it's a nice shot. It also looks like "okay, you're showing me everything you've done", and that is never impressive, even if there are some good ones thrown in. Limiting the front page to a few different styles of shooting, all from different sets, leaves something up to imagination which is a good thing.

I will say, I love the minimal/responsive web template you went with. Your gear looks like it is very capable. I'd spend a little more time getting your brand up to par.


----------



## 7enderbender (Sep 3, 2013)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I got a chance to shoot a bday party, baby portrait, corp event. And wondering where do I go from here.
> Started a site (work in progress) but just not sure where to invest next for props advertising etc. any suggestions would be helpful
> 
> Www.allophotography.com
> ...




I was in the same situation a while ago. So for the calendar year 2013 I went ahead and got myself a business license/tax ID (state and fed), hooked up with a local chamber of commerce to have my business plan reviewed (for free), set up my zenfolio site accordingly (maybe not the pretties/most artistic way of having a site, but very time efficient to get results and an included shopping cart with lots of control) and had a bunch of business cards printed (cheapo vista print option).

Things turned out to be too busy really otherwise to follow through with some of my original plans so the only thing I've done since is do some shoots for charity. But things will change again and that way I have everything available to add a bit more of a side business that way.

One thing I learned along the way is that some towns/cities might want to charge you business/property taxes based on the value of your gear/business. You might want to check that.

The other thing is that having insurance (especially liability not so much the gear) can be very important for some kind of work. I haven't done that yet because it's very expensive here in MA. But the minute you shoot events, weddings and such I guess it's important in case anyone sues you for tripping over your camera bag or whatever.


----------



## KKCFamilyman (Sep 3, 2013)

The site homepage was put back to the original and should be simpler. I will further tweak it tonight. Please remember I have only been working on it for 6 days periodically. I also think people should comment truthfully but put your money were your mouth is and show a link to your well put together site if you want to truly put your point across.


----------



## And-Rew (Sep 3, 2013)

OK, my 2 penneth worth...

Your web site - all pictures and no info. As much as photography is about pictures, it is all about you as well. YOU are the BRAND that is being advertised and the service being offered. As much as I like the pictures, and the locked galleries to indicate previous commissioned work - you definitely need that bit of reading material.

As you say, a work in progress - so leave the web site there.

Where to go next:

Kit wise - i see you only have the one body - for me a second body is essential. You are being hired to guarantee the delivery of pictures - and if that one body breaks, then your rep takes a hit. You can get a way with losing a lens by use of another, although not as suitable as that which was lost. Lighting i also something to have redundancy, so one flash isn't enough - and nor is ISO 25600.

The Macro lens is nice - i used mine for portraits - loved the bokeh you could get with it - but do you already have redundancy in the focal range area? What will the lense give you that you haven't already got? You'd be surprised how many butterfly pics are taken with long lenses - saves you getting close and disturbing them - even if butterfly pics do make a good 'stocking' filler 

Photography as a living: as said in another comment - you have to work out where you want to go with your photography as a revenue stream. With that you need to get a business plan, and even marketing plan sorted out to help you decide if what you fancy is achievable.

I can take pictures, and have had all the kit a pro could want - but i just couldn't handle the pressure of 'the event' and delivery, my wife said i set standards that were just too high - who knows, it's done. My photography has now been stripped back to basics and basic kit. I'm adjusting my web presence as well to suit.

I hope you sort out your aims re- photography and wish you all the best, look forward to seeing you on the front cover of a tog mag.


----------



## And-Rew (Sep 3, 2013)

as requested, the only web presence i have at the moment:

http://500px.com/andrew-brown

it includes some old stuff and some new stuff. Hence i didn't comment on your ability to build a site or what it looks like, just the content. Your site- after all - must be a reflection of you, of your individuality, that is there to show case you and your work - to encourage people to use you over the next tog in the yellow pages or web search engine results.


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Sep 3, 2013)

KKCFamilyman said:


> The site homepage was put back to the original and should be simpler. I will further tweak it tonight. Please remember I have only been working on it for 6 days periodically. I also think people should comment truthfully *but put your money were your mouth is *and show a link to your well put together site if you want to truly put your point across.



1. I wasn't the one asking for an opinion

2. I don't charge people for my photography, have no ambition to, and have no pretensions that my photography is good enough to charge for.

3. I wasn't really criticising the web design so much... (I don't have a website, so 1-0 there)

4. I've posted examples of my video work in the video thread, some of which I did for fun, most of which was paid for as part of my day job as a full-time video cameraman / editor, please feel free to have a look and critique away. I've long since cashed the cheques and spent the money.

5. If you want some proof that I can work the basics of a camera, control light a little bit, and compose a shot within reason then sure, I'll *put my money where my mouth is* and post some stills when I get to my home machine later.

The other thing you'll need for professional work is a thick skin. A paying client would have tore you a new @rsehole if you presented some of the stuff you've posted. And some will do that even when the work meets their brief and meets a professional technical competency.
It takes lots of things to go pro (from my experience in video that is) and a good camera is the least of it.


----------



## Jay Khaos (Sep 3, 2013)

KKCFamilyman said:


> The site homepage was put back to the original and should be simpler. I will further tweak it tonight. Please remember I have only been working on it for 6 days periodically. I also think people should comment truthfully but put your money were your mouth is and show a link to your well put together site if you want to truly put your point across.



The whole idea of needing to see an example to be sold on the point.... ironically kind of strengthens the argument of only showing your best work. A client comes at you wanting the same piece of mind.

If I were to show you a collection of the websites I've put together, you would expect me to ONLY show you the kind of work I claim to support. I may have done a lot of work that was client-directed and that I am not proud of, and I would not show you those in my portfolio because that would discredit my arguement—just as showing anything less than your best weakens your position as a photographer 

Like Paul said, a client will tear you a new one, and the difference will be that the feedback won't really be constructive.


----------



## surapon (Sep 3, 2013)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I got a chance to shoot a bday party, baby portrait, corp event. And wondering where do I go from here.
> Started a site (work in progress) but just not sure where to invest next for props advertising etc. any suggestions would be helpful
> 
> Www.allophotography.com
> ...



Dear Mr. KKC.
Just my Ideas = 
1) Now , If You still have a good jobs, Such as Doctor, Engineer, Architect, IT, Graphic Designer-----ETC. Just continue Working on your Old job, And Make the Salary money to buy the New Photography Equipment and Enjoy your Photography Hobby and Some Golf + Traveling.
2) If you hate your old Job, Just Try to find the New job that you love ( But Make a lot of Money too) = Use That New Money to Buy the Photography Equipment and Traveling around the World , on Photographic Vacation-----But If You love The Photography so much than the Money that you make with your old job---Let Jump to the Mud Pool and Play the mud with Millions of the people who think they are the Best Photographers in this world, because they have top of the Line Canon/ Nikon Cameras and 250 L Lenses in his storage shack.
Yes, When you are the " PRO "= who make 80% of their income/ Money in each month from Photography---Yes, The Job will come of DEAD Lines, PROMISE , HEADACHES ---Miss the Dead Line, No new Job, Not Enough money to buy the mink coat for your wife, No real vacation for your family in next ten years---AND PLUS your love Photography Hobby are gone to the drain = Just Pain in the neck to make the Best Photos that make the clients love and happy of final set of Photos, Yes, Although it look like the shits to you. 
Yes, Like to do 3 days= pre wedding and Wedding Photos in Some Beautiful Place far away from your home town, The Real PRO will charge 12, 000 US Dollars Minimum ( Plus free Hotel + Meals from the wedding Couple's Mom and Dad), No, some one can do it for free of charge , If the client provide room + Board + airplane ticket = That Great Vacation for Them too. Yes, You lose that wedding job, Now.
Just 5% of the Great Photographers make their great Income as the Upper Middle class citizen in this world---95% of the World Photographers are the Most Proud People but Poor People with less money or no money---If They do not another job or another income to support their love Hobby.---Yes, If you go to play golf in the Golf club, You can see the Million of golfers play the golf, But How many Tiger Wood , who you know ?
Just is my Idea----Sorry, I might have the Wrong Ideas.
Just do as the great Hobby and get some money if you can---to have FUN, Our Life are too short to worry of any thing that can go wrong.
Surapon


----------



## Halfrack (Sep 3, 2013)

Basic advice:

Learn to take things in stride, the internet can be harsh, but go with it, since you have the time to compose yourself. You don't get that time in front of a client.

Hide your family. Literally, don't publicly post things on your 'professional' site that are family images, as you have an emotional ties to the images. They can also be used against you - think of how you'll react when someone tells you they're crap images, feel bad for the family, etc.

Lighting, literally work an hour a day on lighting. You have a single flash, and while it can do wonders, you'll find there are times when it isn't enough. Figure out how to work with light directly - flash, reflectors, positioning, time of day.

Pay for a portfolio review. You may or may not listen to folks here, but find someone who is a working professional whom you trust and have them do a review. Have them talk you through some images as to where you can improve. It can make a huge difference.


----------



## takesome1 (Sep 3, 2013)

KKCFamilyman said:


> The site homepage was put back to the original and should be simpler. I will further tweak it tonight. Please remember I have only been working on it for 6 days periodically. I also think people should comment truthfully but put your money were your mouth is and show a link to your well put together site if you want to truly put your point across.



The pictures you posted now are much better. 

You did ask for any suggestion right?
If you wanted only Professional photogs that have established their own site you should have said so.
Expect some very rough criticism from that crowd, they tend to chew up and spit out the new comers.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 3, 2013)

I don't want to pile on, so I'll just say that I agree with the comments from Paul, Surapan and others here.

I list my personal website below. Never seen the point in listing a bunch of toys. I'd rather let people see what I shoot and let them judge by that. It's a hobby for me. I can't make enough from photography to equal what I make in my day job.

If people are paying you to take photographs, then you've got a start and I'm not going to critique your images – money talks. I would point out some problems with your website. I'm familiar with these issues since I put my own website together and do a lot of website management in my real job. 

When I click on "browse" I get to a page where half the folders are locked. That's a real waste of valuable screen space and a turn-off for potential clients. If they are private folders, they shouldn't be on your public website. If they are client folders, they should be in a special client section and not on a general page.

When I click on any of the pictures on your front page, it takes me to a slide show of all the pictures on the front page -- okay, I guess... but it isn't offering me anything that I can't see on the front page. 

The bigger problem is that once I'm on that slide show page, there is no link back to the home page or anywhere else on your site. The only way to navigate back to the home page is to hit the back button on my browser. Every page of any website should have a link back to the homepage. 

I was going to give you some more advice, but as I thought about it, the more I decided that others have pretty well covered it. About the only thing I would add is: "don't quit your day job." Just keep doing what you have been doing for the next several years and at some point you'll either find you have enough business to justify doing it professionally, or you will find you can't make it work. Honestly and candidly, my reaction to your pictures is about the same as others, but it doesn't matter what I think. If people are willing to pay you for your pictures, that is the only opinion that counts.


----------



## surapon (Sep 3, 2013)

Dear Friends .
One of the top Photographer profession IN THE WORLD THAT ALL OF PHOTOGRAPHERS DREAM ( Include Me too---Ha, Ha, Ha----too small salary/ income to be the BEST OF THE BEST in this job):

" National Geographic Staff Photographer Earnings

National Geographic staff photographer Michael "Nick" Nichols avoids putting a direct figure on a staff shooter's annual salary, although he reveals earnings are in the ballpark of $100,000 each year. That figure, however, encompasses his salary as well as his own freelance work managing his archive of photographs for use in other publications and projects.

Job Outlook

National Geographic only employs five staff photographers, according to Nichols, and the bulk of its photos are contributed by freelance photographers. With 50 to 60 photographers employed regularly by the magazine, about 90 percent are freelancers being paid on a piecework basis. The five staff photographers employed by the magazines are experienced enough to have reached the final third of their career.



Freelance Rates

National Geographic's "Traveller" magazine pays photographers on a day rate for assignments. As of December 2010, its day rate is $425, with most assignments lasting 10 to 14 days. An average 12-day assignment would net a freelancer $5,100, although that rate also covers the necessary editing and post-production work needed to bring photographs up to the magazine's publishable standards.


Read more: http://www.ehow.com/info_7755532_salary-national-geographic-staff-photographer.html#ixzz2dr842rRe
"


http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/how-much-does/photographer-salary/


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 3, 2013)

You've received lots of good advise, the issue is to prioritize it. This is a gear site, so the natural tendancy is to recommend more gear.

I'd recommend that you include lighting in your list of wants.

Then, a business plan that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. If you plan to do everything yourself, you will have to plan to be small. If you want to make a living, you will need to consider how to work your way up to get corporate advertising accounts. I don't think you will be able to make much of a living doing birthdays and senior photos. Weddings will require that you grow the business to have a assistant/backup. We all get sick or have accidents, but one slip and you are out!

There are some very good training videos on creative live, even coverage of the business end. Invest time and money learning.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 3, 2013)

surapon said:


> Dear Friends .
> One of the top Photographer profession IN THE WORLD THAT ALL OF PHOTOGRAPHERS DREAM ( Include Me too---Ha, Ha, Ha----too small salary/ income to be the BEST OF THE BEST in this job):
> 
> " National Geographic Staff Photographer Earnings
> ...



This really puts it in perspective. Doing the math, a $425 Day rate means you would have to work 52 weeks a year, five days a week to earn $110,500. Of course, no freelancer would ever work that much. Probably lucky to work half that amount. And, that's for what passes as the top of the heap for photojournalism these days. 

Now you know why people like Joe McNally, Scott Kelby, etc., focus on books, training videos and workshops. Actual photography represents only a small fraction of their income.


----------



## KKCFamilyman (Sep 3, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I am just starting out and do not plan to quit my day job. This will never be more than a part time hobby. Just was looking for suggestions and got some so thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute.


----------



## Famateur (Sep 4, 2013)

KKCFamilyman, thanks for asking the questions. It allowed me to benefit from the responses without having to have thick skin myself.


----------



## syder (Sep 4, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> KKCFamilyman said:
> 
> 
> > The other thing you'll need for professional work is a thick skin. A paying client would have tore you a new @rsehole if you presented some of the stuff you've posted. And some will do that even when the work meets their brief and meets a professional technical competency.
> ...


----------



## adebrophy (Sep 6, 2013)

Hey - kudos KKC for taking on board some of that advice and changing up your site. The cut down selection of photos now does your ability justice.

Even if you are doing this on the side (as I am) then I still recommend looking at insurance so you can still keep yourself and clients safe. That's insurance as in a spare camera body and as in third party liability. 

Also, I can echo the comments on learning lighting. I got huge amounts of great and free tuition from Adorama TV and David Hobby's strobist site. 

Here's my gallery - www.xtrashot.com


----------



## KKCFamilyman (Sep 6, 2013)

adebrophy said:


> Hey - kudos KKC for taking on board some of that advice and changing up your site. The cut down selection of photos now does your ability justice.
> 
> Even if you are doing this on the side (as I am) then I still recommend looking at insurance so you can still keep yourself and clients safe. That's insurance as in a spare camera body and as in third party liability.
> 
> ...



Thanks
I did work on cutting it down. I do plan on working on my lighting. Definitely an area in need of improving but to be honest I am just going to take it as it comes. Skills need to be refined but insurance, business plans, seo are beyond the scope of the size I want to be and can commit right now. I have a great career and do not plan on turning this fun hobby to a job.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 6, 2013)

Go to www.youarenotaphotographer.com

Look at the pictures

Don't do stuff like thatl ;D

Good luck with it.


----------



## Dylan777 (Sep 22, 2013)

It's not going to be easy. Could take year(s). If you really want it, learn how to master PP. Hint: Lightroom is not enough. 

I have 4 friends(pro wedding). First couple years, they made no almost no profits. Years went by, they now top 10 wedding pro in Orange County, CA.

http://benjaminweddingstudio.com


----------



## Sella174 (Sep 24, 2013)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Go to www.youarenotaphotographer.com



Brilliant ... looks like the stuff of the "pros" in my locale.


----------

