# 5D3 Auto ISO



## bobby samat (Jun 5, 2014)

i've never used this feature until today. took some shots with it around my house with with a 24-70 & 70-200. at 24mm the shutter speed on AV was at 1/30. at 200mm it was at 1/200. 

anyone have experience with this feature and whether it's reliable or not?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 5, 2014)

By default, in Av mode with auto ISO, the camera will choose a shutter speed based on the 1/focal length rule (ignoring IS). There is a setting which allows you to apply a minimum shutter speed in Av, to avoid subject motion blur with wider lenses. Personally, I use 1/125 a as a minimum for 'still' subjects (people not intentionally moving).


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## bobby samat (Jun 5, 2014)

at 24mm, i would like it to stay at or above 1/50. at 200mm, 1/200 would generally be fine for me.

i wish you could set it for a few different focal lengths instead of a single deault. 16, 24, 50, 85, 100, 150 & 200mm would be cool 8)


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## Dylan777 (Jun 6, 2014)

bobby samat said:


> at 24mm, i would like it to stay at or above 1/50. at 200mm, 1/200 would generally be fine for me.
> 
> i wish you could set it for a few different focal lengths instead of a single deault. 16, 24, 50, 85, 100, 150 & 200mm would be cool  8)



It calls "M" mode in 5D III. You control aperture and shutter speed, camera selects best ISO. 

When shooting in "M" mode:
1. Indoor or low light shooting, keep an eye on high ISO. My cut off point is 6400
2. Outdoor/day light, keep an eye on exp comp


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## mackguyver (Jun 6, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> 1. Indoor or low light shooting, keep an eye on high ISO. My cut off point is 6400


There's your excuse to get a 1D X. My personal 5DIII ISO threshold is also 6400, but my 1D X threshold is 25600 .


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## Dylan777 (Jun 6, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Dylan777 said:
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Are you joking ? My itchyy for 1DX has not yet ended.


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## mackguyver (Jun 6, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


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No joke, especially with DxO PRIME. The 1D X with a 70-200 f/2.8 IS II works pretty well if you need to use it to scratch an itch on your back, btw  ;D


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## Akhiel (Jun 6, 2014)

bobby samat said:


> i've never used this feature until today. took some shots with it around my house with with a 24-70 & 70-200. at 24mm the shutter speed on AV was at 1/30. at 200mm it was at 1/200.
> 
> anyone have experience with this feature and whether it's reliable or not?



I have used this feature regularly with my 5D3.
It works fine, when there's enough light. I used this feature mostly when shooting action events (high shutter speed). If light condition is critical, you better measure the light to adjust the shutterspeed and aperture, so that the camera doesn't have to go for too high iso-value. Otherwise this will create unnecessary amount of noise. For example, taking photos in the evening of an sport event with artificial light, you will need an f2.8 lens.
Back to 5D3, also f4 or f5.6 will help, it depends on what do you want to use the photo for: website (ok), small prints (ok), but for prints larger than 12inch-line you should stay under the ISO6400. Note that you can set a limit for maxumum ISO-value, also when using Auto-iso.


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## kurtj29 (Jun 6, 2014)

I use this feature all the time on my 1D4. It is wonderful. You need to be in manual mode but shooting lacrosse games in which part the field has sunlight and the other side or portions are in shade this is a lifesaver. I set the camera at 1/1200 sec and f/2.8. Just make sure if it is really bright you down blow the highlights. Best new feature added to the 5D3, 1D4 and 1DX.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 6, 2014)

bobby samat said:


> i've never used this feature until today. took some shots with it around my house with with a 24-70 & 70-200. at 24mm the shutter speed on AV was at 1/30. at 200mm it was at 1/200.
> 
> anyone have experience with this feature and whether it's reliable or not?



It really only truly works on the 1DX (or on any model from any OTHER manufacturer). Canon cripples on almost all of their bodies. The 5D3 doesn't allow EC and the highest min shutter speeds it allows for Av mode are ridiculously low and largely useless (no technical reason for this, just annoying marketing department games).


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## mackguyver (Jun 6, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> bobby samat said:
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> > i've never used this feature until today. took some shots with it around my house with with a 24-70 & 70-200. at 24mm the shutter speed on AV was at 1/30. at 200mm it was at 1/200.
> ...


I'm still scratching my head on this one - when Nikon has had this for many years and allowed you to select the top (1/4000 or 1/8000s) shutter speed, why did Canon launch the 1D X with it capped at 1/250s. And why have they not fixed that in all cameras after fixing it in the 1D X? NOW it seems like a gimmick, but before the 1D X firmware, it just seemed like a stupid mistake. Scott Kelby, a longtime Nikon user who tried and ultimately switched to Canon, had only one complaint about the 1D X - and that was it!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 7, 2014)

mackguyver said:


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Marketing department gone mad. AutoISO is utterly trivial to implement in a DSLR and as near zero cost as a feature can be to add to a camera, but Canon has insisted on slowly dribbling it out over more than a decade now so they can keep pointing to improved autoiso each new model, rather a joke. There is no tech issue in the slightest, a couple bits of altered code could fix the 5D3 silly restriction. I wonder how hard it would be to dig through the code and find it and do a ML type hack around the restriction? I'm sure plenty doable, but likely quite a drag to say the least.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 7, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
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Just to point out, the 1-series bodies have long been able to set a minimum/maximum shutter speed and/or aperture, to any of the possible settings.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 7, 2014)

I was going to say something. I bought one of the first 1Dx's in August 2012 and it was never limited to 1/250s. I could set it to whatever I wanted and it never needed to be "fixed" by Canon. You can set min/max apertures, shutters, ISO values to any value in their respective ranges, and also ISO safety shift. And you always have been able to do so with 1D-series bodies.


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## rpt (Jun 7, 2014)

I shoot I'm M mode with auto ISO. I am usually at the longest end of my lenses when not shooting humans  so fixing the shutter speed is not an issue. I think my shots usually come out ok.


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## mackguyver (Jun 7, 2014)

neuro & bdunbar, I'm talking specifically about the Auto ISO shutter speed limit, which is new, at least to the 1D X, and was limited to 1/250s, as the 5DIII and presumably other new bodies are:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/eos_1dx_afae_improve


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## Marsu42 (Jun 7, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> It really only truly works on the 1DX (or on any model from any OTHER manufacturer). Canon cripples on almost all of their bodies. The 5D3 doesn't allow EC and the highest min shutter speeds it allows for Av mode are ridiculously low and largely useless (no technical reason for this, just annoying marketing department games).



That's why you use Magic Lantern to un-cripple auto_iso :-> ... the (wip) module has unlimited min. shutter speed in av, min. aperture in tv and ec in m. You can even use flash with auto iso when afaik even the 1d locks you @iso 400 the instant you turn on the flash.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 7, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> neuro & bdunbar, I'm talking specifically about the Auto ISO shutter speed limit, which is new, at least to the 1D X, and was limited to 1/250s, as the 5DIII and presumably other new bodies are:
> http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/eos_1dx_afae_improve



Yes, I know. I can set the power for my 600EX-RT in the camera menus or on the flash itself. Point being, there's more than one way to achieve a minimum shutter speed setting, and the 'normal' 1-series way has never been limited. Conversely, only on the 1-series can you use Tv mode and set a maximum aperture narrower than wide open to give sufficient DoF.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 8, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
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> > It really only truly works on the 1DX (or on any model from any OTHER manufacturer). Canon cripples on almost all of their bodies. The 5D3 doesn't allow EC and the highest min shutter speeds it allows for Av mode are ridiculously low and largely useless (no technical reason for this, just annoying marketing department games).
> ...



Oh wow, so ML already unlocked it? Here I was thinking I might have to finally dig into the code myself. Man, they are fast. Sweet. OK, I guess it's not a practical issue anymore. 

It's kinda crazy that ML single handedly has turned the 5D3 into magic, turning a disappointingly conservative video upgrade into something really special and now fixing up all the dumb little bits of stills things marketing had them crippled out.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 8, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Oh wow, so ML already unlocked it? Here I was thinking I might have to finally dig into the code myself. Man, they are fast. Sweet. OK, I guess it's not a practical issue anymore.



The "ML Auto ISO" function is present in the stable v2.3 Magic Lantern, for newer cameras that aren't covered by the stable release there's (only) a wip module that isn't in the nightlies yet. I know because I wrote it  but I haven't found the time to polish it enough to push it to the main branch.

The ML core devs aren't very interested in it because they don't shoot action and don't need use auto iso but shoot mostly ettr in M mode w/o auto iso (so they also don't need ec in m which the module also provides)


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 8, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> mackguyver said:
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> > neuro & bdunbar, I'm talking specifically about the Auto ISO shutter speed limit, which is new, at least to the 1D X, and was limited to 1/250s, as the 5DIII and presumably other new bodies are:
> ...



I'm not getting it I guess. Are we talking about setting min shutter speed in the custom functions while in auto ISO? Because using auto ISO I was able to set any shutter speed I wanted. If it's the custom function issue, I don't really view that as a limitation personally. 

Good point by neuro. I used to shoot basketball before the latest firmware with auto ISO in M mode, with a 70-200 f/2.8L II IS lens. To do EC, I would set max aperture to f/1.0, and min to f/2.8. This "trapped" the lens at f/2.8 and so since I was in Tv mode, could go ahead and do the EC.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 9, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


> I'm not getting it I guess. Are we talking about setting min shutter speed in the custom functions while in auto ISO? Because using auto ISO I was able to set any shutter speed I wanted. If it's the custom function issue, I don't really view that as a limitation personally.



There's a specific setting called 'min shutter speed in Av mode', I believe it's in one of the first few menu screens, the one where you set the range for Auto ISO. Normally, in Av mode with Auto ISO, as light levels decrease the camera will drop the shutter speed to ~1/FL (1/1.6xFL for APS-C) before it starts raising the ISO. The problem comes when you have a wide lens – the shutter speed drops slow enough (e.g. 1/30 s at the wide end of a 24-xx zoom) that when shooting people, subject motion blur becomes an issue. I believe the original purpose of the setting was to allow a 'floor' for shutter speed in Av to prevent blur from involuntary subject motion. Personally, I use 1/125 s as a minimum when people are the subject. A speed of 1/250 s should be plenty fast for that. 

It seems people shooting intentionally moving subjects (sports, etc.) using Av mode to control DoF wanted faster minimum speeds to stop action. Therefore, the new firmware for the 1D X expanded the setting to the max shutter speed of 1/8000 s. So far, only the 1D X has the modified setting, which as we know, is just a second way to skin the cat on a 1-series body. However, it would be a nice feature on non-1-series bodies where full ranges can't be specified. Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.



I'll bookmark this post and quote it if the occasion arises :-> ... imho crippling the max. min shutter speed in Av is just a too good and cheap way for Canon to upsell people, they won't let it be until forced at gunpoint. The ridiculous value of 1/250s (for action shots!) down to 1" (who needs that?) shows that Canon doesn't care about what non-1d people think here. My guess for the 7d: 1/500s


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## polarhannes (Jun 9, 2014)

I'd really like to try the auto_iso module, but I was unable to find a binary for the latest 5DIII firmware. The ML forum thread has some binaries, but only for the old 5D firmware. 
Marsu, where can we download it? I won't complain and understand that the devs and you are not responsible for any damage this might cause


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## Marsu42 (Jun 9, 2014)

polarhannes said:


> Marsu, where can we download it? I won't complain and understand that the devs and you are not responsible for any damage this might cause



You cannot just use the module, it uses some ML core patches that aren't in the nightlies (yet). For the time being, you need to use the old/stable ML v2.3 for this feature.

Here's the thread for the new module with some older 5d3 binaries, alas, I don't have time to finish it atm, gotta make a living in the real world :-\ ... but if enough interested people show up in the thread, the ML devs might be more sympathetic to merging it once I push it: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8688.0


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## mackguyver (Jun 9, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> bdunbar79 said:
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> > I'm not getting it I guess. Are we talking about setting min shutter speed in the custom functions while in auto ISO? Because using auto ISO I was able to set any shutter speed I wanted. If it's the custom function issue, I don't really view that as a limitation personally.
> ...


Good explanation, Neuro, and the 1D X definitely has many ways to do the same thing, especially with exposure compensation in Manual mode. Before that, in theory, the easiest way to shoot action was to use Av mode with Auto ISO to keep the lens where you wanted it and still have access to exposure compensation. I say in theory because you couldn't set Auto ISO to go beyond 1/250s which is way to slow, but with a long lens the shutter speed would go up to 1/focal length which worked well for most wildlife, but not sports. I use M mode for all of my action shooting now that I have exposure compensation. Hopefully we'll see this in the next 5DIII update as well


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.
> ...



I could certainly be wrong…and you're more than welcome to throw it in my face if I am! 

I really just think it's a use case Canon didn't foresee, and decided to add post hoc because of customer feedback. Conventional wisdom is that you use Tv mode for action shooting; 'sports mode' (the runner on the mode dial of so-equipped cameras) is based on Tv mode. Since the setting under discussion applies only to Av mode, it's quite logical Canon did not envision its use for shooting action.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 10, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Conventional wisdom is that you use Tv mode for action shooting; 'sports mode' (the runner on the mode dial of so-equipped cameras) is based on Tv mode.



I never quite understood this, starting with my first EOS (620) I was annoyed that in pure Tv w/o any scene program gimmicks, the camera goes to wide open asap - *shudder* think 50/1.8. This makes tracking difficult and might result in a too thin dof for the scene. Av with min. shutter speed fixes this problem.

With Magic Lantern, I actually use Tv mode for "walkaround tourist/landscape" as a "as deep dof as possible" mode: Set the shutter time you think is appropriate, rest assured the dof will not drop below a limit you've set, then let the camera choose an even deeper dof if good light allows it.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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And Manual fixes all of that...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 10, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


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Really? I read it, but it wasn't obvious. To what page number are you referring?

;D


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 10, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


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LOL!


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## rpt (Jun 10, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


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Lol! It took a few seconds but the penny finally dropped ;D


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## Marsu42 (Jun 10, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


> And Manual fixes all of that...



Well, I guess the world of photography is divided into two kinds of people - those who can do all stuff in full M and actually wouldn't need all this flashy computer support and simple /me who has absolutely no clue at all how to do this in changing light :-o ... when shooting wildlife like I do or "walkaround shoot in every direction" every exposure is different than the other, that's why I like to rely on Av,Tv and Auto-ISO.


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## philmoz (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> With Magic Lantern, I actually use Tv mode for "walkaround tourist/landscape" as a "as deep dof as possible" mode: Set the shutter time you think is appropriate, rest assured the dof will not drop below a limit you've set, then let the camera choose an even deeper dof if good light allows it.



Can you explain how you set up ML to do this please - I've been through all the menu options and searched the forum; but I can't figure it out.

Thanks,
Phil.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


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I was just kidding! I use auto ISO with EC.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 10, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


> I was just kidding! I use auto ISO with EC.



Ok, thanks for clarifying ... believe it or not, there are really people around who try to tell you semi-auto (be it av,tv or auto iso) is just for people who are not able to shoot in full m, for any possible situation that is


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## scyrene (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> bdunbar79 said:
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I feel the opposite - I wish I'd learned how to use those other modes. I only ever use manual because I don't really understand the other settings, and I feel I must be missing out. I usually remember/notice to change the settings as conditions change, but not always, so I must miss some shots 

(But I fear I'm already too set in my ways to branch out in that regard...)


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## Skirball (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


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There's plenty of them on here. Every time the topic comes up of exposure compensation for Auto ISO in manual there's usually at least one person who screams about it not really being full manual. I've never heard anyone complain about it in real life, but on the internet what shooting mode you use and the purity in which you do it is of the utmost importance.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 10, 2014)

Skirball said:


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I've been criticized many times for using Tv, Av, auto ISO, and worse yet, for even having a camera that can fire 12 fps because "I need to learn more skill and learn to time the shot."

I agree, there must be some reward or stipulation out there about full M mode. Like, if I get the shot and the other guy next to me just missed it slightly, they'll use his shot because he shot in full M mode and I didn't.


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## mackguyver (Jun 10, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


> I've been criticized many times for using Tv, Av, auto ISO, and worse yet, for even having a camera that can fire 12 fps because "I need to learn more skill and learn to time the shot."


From now on, you can simply tell them to shut and buy a Nikon Df ;D 

For me, aperture control is most important, so I always use Av or M mode. I don't like Tv or P mode as they take the DOF control out of my hands and change my vision for me, which is unacceptable. I use Av mode for all but the most extreme lighting situations for still subjects and Manual mode for anything moving and studio work. High FPS can be used to cover sloppy work, but some subjects require it. I actually find it annoying to have to comb through dozens of frames in the edit, but for fast moving subjects, pans, or critical shots when you can't miss, high FPS is necessary.


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## unfocused (Jun 10, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


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Funny thing is, most of these purists act like "manual" takes some special skill. In my youth, manual meant eyeballing the scene and guessing at the exposure without a light meter. In those days, if you used the camera's light meter the "manual" snobs sneered at you. 

Personally, I'm not embarrassed to switch the camera to "P" mode when I put the camera in the bag. That way I know that if I see something, the first shot I grab will at least capture something usable. I figure there's a reason it's called "Professional" mode. And really, after a little experience shooting, any of the modes will get you to the same place in the end, so what difference does it make?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
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> > Oh wow, so ML already unlocked it? Here I was thinking I might have to finally dig into the code myself. Man, they are fast. Sweet. OK, I guess it's not a practical issue anymore.
> ...



Ah, that explains why I didn't see it yet. Anyway, chop chop  ;D get that wip module into the nightlies before I'm forced to waste my own time coding (and why do that when you could waste your own time for me ).

Oh nice, so you also put in EC in AutoISO M. Great work!

It really is beyond absurd, Canon marketing, to cripple such silly little things. Not one other competitor, who also play their own games, has seen fit to play marketing games with something so trivial as this. At least they firmware is hackable though.


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## Frodo (Jun 10, 2014)

I know this thread is about the 5D3, but on the 5D2, auto-ISO is useless. On Av mode, which I use most, the shutter speed is 1/focal length. I have steady hands but this often does not produce critically sharp images. And on manual, Auto-ISO sets at 400.
Well, the Canon marketing gurus know their stuff - this is one of the reasons I'm considering upgrading.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.
> ...



Yeah I love how they limited the allowed shutter speeds to the exact range where the feature would be basically useless. Once you are down to getting away with 1/250th or slower you are more often in scenarios where you'd have enough time to adjust everything else yourself as needed, so it's more of just a little convience thing at that point, but of course where it is more than just about a little convenience then they lock it out! They simply can not be THAT dumb, so it has to be calculated pathetic little BS games from the marketing department.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 10, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


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Oh come on, if they didn't forsee that then their entire staff needs to be fired since none of them have the remotest clue about photography! and it's not like people haven't been complaining about it in the forums for years! I and many others have personally sent them detailed requests about AutoISO and how it needs to work years ago already. All they do is slowly dribble out one tiny aspect more with each model as a supposed upsell feature. Pathetic.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 10, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


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Also conventional wisdom is not to go to Tv mode for sports. Most serious sports shooters use either Av or M.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 10, 2014)

Skirball said:


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hah very true, I see that just about every single time, where half the posts end up with on or two people ranting about how it's not really M mode anymore and how of course they shouldnt allow AutoISO under M and how it's confusing and how it needs to be illegal unless they add a new letter to the dial, etc. and how it's a dumb mode that makes no sense anyway, etc. etc. etc.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 10, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Personally, I'm not embarrassed to switch the camera to "P" mode when I put the camera in the bag. That way I know that if I see something, the first shot I grab will at least capture something usable. I figure there's a reason it's called "Professional" mode. And really, after a little experience shooting, any of the modes will get you to the same place in the end, so what difference does it make?



Good point. I mean how many times does some shot just come out of nowhere and you grab the camera and there is zero time to adjust even the slightest thing, not even spin the knob, and unless it was stored on P, you may well mess the shot up beyond rescue. I have to remember to store it in P more.


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## mackguyver (Jun 10, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> They simply can not be THAT dumb, so it has to be calculated pathetic little BS games from the marketing department.


I think they were THAT dumb, because this 1/250s limit was also present in the 1D X before the firmware update. What were the marketing people expecting people to upgrade to from the 1D X??? 

My guess is that they thought it would make sense to match the x-sync speed because auto ISO in Av mode would come in so handy for studio work, right?

Or maybe they made their firmware programmer mad and he did this before quitting?

Or perhaps they did this accidentally not expecting their pros to threaten defecting to Nikon, like they did over the lack of f/8 AF intentionally so they could trumpet it as an improvement in the firmware update?


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## KeithBreazeal (Jun 10, 2014)

I just set the 5D III to Auto and get great photos all the time.
You ever wonder why there is a full AUTO MODE?
OK, just kidding. I started in shooting in 1960, manual mode exposures come naturally to me.
For those just getting started in photography, a DSLR can be quite a challenge once they venture past the AUTO settings. I think most people in this situation start getting frustrated when extreme exposure conditions produce less than expected results. That's when they seek our help and understanding. I can't count the number of times somebody has walked up to me and asked me for help on settings. I review their photos and go from there. That's how I started out with my first DSLR(40D) at an airshow. Three fellow photographers took their time and "showed me the ropes". After deleting thousands of photos, you kind of get a clue on what works and what doesn't. Once you get all that figured out and feel good about capturing under most any condition, along comes a new mode. Auto ISO can save you bacon when shooting under varying conditions. A good example is at sporting events when the subject is moving through alternating sunny and shady zones.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 10, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


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> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



That's actually not quite correct. Most of the sports shooters I shoot with use Tv or M. If you don't have a 1D-series body, you cannot control how slow the shutter goes and nobody shoots below 1/500s, unless you're doing a panning shot. If you cannot set a minimum shutter speed to 1/500s, then why would you use Av mode? Even before the 1Dx firmware was out, I was shooting Tv mode with a min aperture.

Granted, and to your point indirectly, most serious SPORTS shooters DO have a 1D-series body


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## Skirball (Jun 10, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Oh come on, if they didn't forsee that then their entire staff needs to be fired since none of them have the remotest clue about photography!



The whole staff probably shoots in Av and thinks they're as good as people who shoot manual.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 10, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Ah, that explains why I didn't see it yet. Anyway, chop chop  ;D get that wip module into the nightlies before I'm forced to waste my own time coding (and why do that when you could waste your own time for me ). Oh nice, so you also put in EC in AutoISO M. Great work!



Thanks, it's always a pleasure coding for free for people owning camera bodies I cannot afford 



bdunbar79 said:


> I agree, there must be some reward or stipulation out there about full M mode. Like, if I get the shot and the other guy next to me just missed it slightly, they'll use his shot because he shot in full M mode and I didn't.



Well, there is indeed a "pro" upside to full M shooting if consistent light allows it: You're also getting consistent shots so it's far easier to select and bulk-postprocess them... and for a real pro time is money. With semi-automatic I'm burning a lot of time simply normalizing the shots since for good results I have to do final adjustments on each shot individually. 

The other advantage of "dumb" full M is that you're not relying on the camera's metering, just like m flash vs. ettl - in some tricky situations (reflectons, specular highlights) the camera can be wrong so it's good to know how to fall back to a safe setting.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, that explains why I didn't see it yet. Anyway, chop chop  ;D get that wip module into the nightlies before I'm forced to waste my own time coding (and why do that when you could waste your own time for me ). Oh nice, so you also put in EC in AutoISO M. Great work!
> ...



Even lighting is something I'm not usually given in the indoor facilities I find myself in doing photography. I usually use CWA or spot-metering so the exposures are actually pretty consistent since my photography has to be player-centric. Outdoors though, I usually just take a few meter readings around the field and then set everything manually which isn't a big deal. Where the 1Dx really came in to be very helpful was indoor sports. I'd much rather choose my DOF and shutter speed and then let the camera choose the ISO because I really don't care what it is, as long as it doesn't go above 6400. And, if you WANT that specific shutter speed and aperture, what choice do you really have? You have no choice on ISO anyways. You'd be setting it at 6400 manually anyways, or you can just let the camera choose 5000 or 6400.

I guess if that doesn't make me a real "pro" then oh well. I don't care either way  I never was in to titles.


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## mackguyver (Jun 12, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Well, there is indeed a "pro" upside to full M shooting if consistent light allows it:


Marsu, the funny thing is that I usually use M when the light is most inconsistent. The semi-auto modes are only so smart and when shooting concerts, indoor sports, or wildlife in deep shade/bright sunshine, M mode is the only way I can get consistent results


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## dgatwood (Jun 14, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, there is indeed a "pro" upside to full M shooting if consistent light allows it:
> ...



Well, there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is uneven, and then there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is quickly changing. Manual modes do better than auto modes when coping with the first, but usually not as well with the second.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 14, 2014)

dgatwood said:


> Well, there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is uneven, and then there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is quickly changing. Manual modes do better than auto modes when coping with the first, but usually not as well with the second.



Thanks, that exactly it. I'd like to add that "auto" is different on different camera bodies, for example "evaluative" metering (that takes the active af point into account) behaves much more consistent on my old 60d but much more dodgy my new 6d in "uneven" lighting. I expect cameras with better rgb metering like the 1dx are even better when it comes to even out uneven lighting.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 14, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> dgatwood said:
> 
> 
> > Well, there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is uneven, and then there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is quickly changing. Manual modes do better than auto modes when coping with the first, but usually not as well with the second.
> ...



Exactly. The 1Dx's metering is so dang accurate and consistent, auto ISO is no problem at all and that's why I love it with EC. You get to control aperture and shutter speed and let ISO do whatever and it's going to be very accurate. I typically use center-weighted average for player-centric shots.

Sorry, we went from the 5D3 auto ISO all the way to a full-blown 1Dx discussion.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 14, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


> Sorry, we went from the 5D3 auto ISO all the way to a full-blown 1Dx discussion.



Interesting to know in any case, unfortunately the metering cannot be fixed by Magic Lantern as they don't have access to the non-lv af or metering information (yet).

It was a bit disappointing to see this regression on my 6d, but then again I was expecting worse performance looking at the af specs anyway. I guess the old 9-pt metering/af system is very mature on my good ol' 60d while there hasn't been too much testing with the 6d 11pt metering/af. 

Let's hope that Canon will integrate real rgb metering in all upcoming systems, after all Nikon shows how it can be done and still selling their most expensive model. Probably already with the 7d2?


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