# New Canon Speedlites and ST-E3!



## justsomedude (Mar 2, 2012)

Cool!!

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/speedlite_flash_lineup/speedlite_600ex_rt#Features

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/speedlite_flash_lineup/speedlite_transmitter_st_e3_rt


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## mr.ranger (Mar 2, 2012)

any idea on prices?


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## thure1982 (Mar 2, 2012)

So Canon still have to take our money. ST-E3 wont be cheap.
I hoped that the 5D3 would have the transmitter built in. 

Edit: Also, there seem to be no af-assist light.


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## ronderick (Mar 2, 2012)

Cool... the Speedlite 600 EX has arrived in time.

Now I won't need to buy another 580 II to replace my stolen 580 II, and still have 320 for 
casual trips.


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## SPG (Mar 2, 2012)

mr.ranger said:


> any idea on prices?


$629 and $479 us list price


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## JurijTurnsek (Mar 2, 2012)

so, would it now be possible to have a wireless system with no third party addons? I'm using elichrom skyports, but would be very happy if there was no need for the additional setup time, just plain simple camera and flashes...


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## JurijTurnsek (Mar 2, 2012)

nevermind, just saw a transmitter has been announced too :

so how would a purely canon setup stack up against elichrome and pocket wizards? seems to me it's sitting somewhere in between...


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## jel0407 (Mar 2, 2012)

thure1982 said:


> Edit: Also, there seem to be no af-assist light.



There is a AF-assist light built in:


> AF Assist Beam compatible with Canon's new 61-Point High Density Reticular AF.


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## Maui5150 (Mar 2, 2012)

Count me as underwhelmed. Distance is marked at 100 ft for the most part, though have seen some test as far as 300... Basically if you are in an urban setting they are expecting interference. 

Secondly, no option right now for non-Speed lite triggering... i.e. this system can fire 600 EX speedlites and future speedlights, but that is it. The 600 EX can be fired optically, but you cannot say do hybrid - 580s Optically and 600s radio. If you have other speed lights or strobes you want to fire, you are SOL unless you are setting up to fire upon flash. 

While some have had issues with the Flex, I still like the fact that I can fire my Photogenic PL2500DRRs with my Sekonic Light Meter, my PW II, or my Mini or Flex as well as with my 580 on a Flex, fire that, or hook a cord into any other flash and sync of the PW. the Phottix Odin and Stratos combo can pretty much do the same as well.

Not sure what I am missing other than price, or maybe I have missed something, but I did not see anything this set up could really do that the 580s with Flex or Odin couldn't do, and if anything else, at least the PW and Phottix solution allowed for non speed lites to be included in the mix


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 2, 2012)

jel0407 said:


> thure1982 said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: Also, there seem to be no af-assist light.
> ...



Nope, thure1982 was presumably referring to the ST-E3, which does not have an AF assist lamp (for which many people use the ST-E2 independent of it's ability to optically control flashes, since it's the smallest form factor you can get for a Canon AF assist lamp).


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## outsider (Mar 2, 2012)

A couple of things I'm surprised about as well. 

The fact that the ST-E3-RT doesn't have an AF assist light. I know a lot of people that bought the ST-E2 only because it had an AF assist light. It really comes in handy.

And second, Canon didn't introduce a generic receiver that can be used with all their other flashes. I guess they want to drive sales of the new flagship 600EX-RT flash. 
It's certainly not a technological barrier, since I assume the 600EX flashes are backwards compatible with all the other ETTL camera bodies Canon has ever made.


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## 7enderbender (Mar 2, 2012)

outsider said:


> It's certainly not a technological barrier, since I assume the 600EX flashes are backwards compatible with all the other ETTL camera bodies Canon has ever made.



That doesn't seem to be entirely clear yet:

"Sync Speeds — I shot at all sync speeds, up to 1/8000″ in High-Speed Sync, on both my 5DM2 and my 60D. I used both a 600EX-RT Speedlite and the ST-E3-RT transmitter to trigger. In hundreds of frames over the past week, I have not had one sync issue. The manual says that on pre-2012 cameras (anything other than 1D X and 5DM3), the system takes a one-stop hit in sync speed and that HSS is not possible. This will be an interesting area to watch as others begin to use the gear."

http://pixsylated.com/blog/canon-600ex-rt-first-impressions/


Looks like it works even though the manual says otherwise. And there were a few other features that are 5DIII/1Dx only, like the control over the 5 wireless groups.

It'll sure be very interesting what this all means in the end, what other products this may trigger, if there will be any other RT flashes from Canon, what PW et al will do next, etc etc.

I'd also like to see a list of countries where they won't be able to sell these - and where technically speaking you're not allowed to use the new radio system. I'm still very surprised that Canon did this even though the latest PW without any TTL capability could have been an indicator of something like this coming.

I'm much more fascinated by the flash and the remote than the new camera (as nice as it looks of course).


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## MikeHunt (Mar 2, 2012)

Roll-on YONGNUO...give them 5 or 6 weeks and they'll have the YN-600EX-RT for $199

I looked at the 580EX II for 499 euros, then saw a video on youtube for YN565 - a 580ex clone - so I bought that instead. It does everything a 580ex does except for high-speed sync (don't need master as 7d does that) 8) 8) 8)


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## Bonnau_Photo (Mar 2, 2012)

So let me get this strait.. 
In order to do HSS with the new 600 you also have to have the ST-E3 to do a 100 foot wireless trigger and HSS control?

Maybe I am missing something in all the reading I have been doing the past day.. (My eyes are burning) But what is the advantage of this system over what the poket wiz and radio poppers can already do with older flash units? And for less money..


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## SPG (Mar 3, 2012)

I like the functionality in the system, but I am turned off by the price. You can get an Odin set and an extra receiver for the price of the ST-E3 which will do just about the same thing. 
I wouldn't worry too much about the stated range of 98' as I think that Canon is being overly cautious in promising more than it can deliver. A real working range for a 2.4ghz system is more like 100 meters than 100 feet. They must be working under the assumption that most people will use it in the same area as a wifi setup, microwave, and cordless phone which all can potentially cause interference. I guess that it can still function consistently within 100' under those conditions.


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## Jamesy (Mar 4, 2012)

If one opted to purchase two 600-RF's and not get the ST-E3, would they get all the functionality in a 600-RF as they would a ST-E3? I would imagine the 600-RF would be of benefit to add fill in many situations rather than the ST-E3.


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## briansquibb (Mar 4, 2012)

MikeHunt said:


> Roll-on YONGNUO...give them 5 or 6 weeks and they'll have the YN-600EX-RT for $199
> 
> I looked at the 580EX II for 499 euros, then saw a video on youtube for YN565 - a 580ex clone - so I bought that instead. It does everything a 580ex does except for high-speed sync (don't need master as 7d does that) 8) 8) 8)



HSS is a key feature in flash photography. No HSS is very limiting in anything other than low light or infill/studio photography


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## jwong (Mar 4, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> If one opted to purchase two 600-RF's and not get the ST-E3, would they get all the functionality in a 600-RF as they would a ST-E3? I would imagine the 600-RF would be of benefit to add fill in many situations rather than the ST-E3.



From the releases, I believe so. Either a 600 or a ST-E3 can be the master. The ST-E3 is slightly less expensive and allows you to position one more flash off the camera.


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## Pau (Mar 4, 2012)

Additional info at this link:
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/accessories/speedlite_600ex_rt.do
Its funny that on the lower right there is a list of links, and if you watch the first link which is a video, it compares the 580EXII to the 600EX-RT and a mysterious 600EX. Does this mean that canon will release a version of the 600 without Radio triggering ?


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## Jamesy (Mar 4, 2012)

I have seen that you cannot mix and match the RF and IR wireless modes. The 600's are compatible with the old 580's via IR wireless only (obviously). I wonder if you can control a 600EX-RT in a soft-box like the Westcott Apollo via the ST-E3 in the hotshoe with RF wireless and have the 600-EX-RT control the legacy 4xx/5xx flash via IR?

Has anyone seen reference to this?


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## JurijTurnsek (Mar 4, 2012)

I found this clip to be very informative:
Canon 5D Mark III Review: Canon 600EX flash modes

But it does leave me wondering - will all Canon bodies (apart from rebels) have the full featured menu for controlling flashes over radio? Also, can you control flash settings by individual flashes (from the body)?


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## Maui5150 (Mar 4, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> I have seen that you cannot mix and match the RF and IR wireless modes. The 600's are compatible with the old 580's via IR wireless only (obviously). I wonder if you can control a 600EX-RT in a soft-box like the Westcott Apollo via the ST-E3 in the hotshoe with RF wireless and have the 600-EX-RT control the legacy 4xx/5xx flash via IR?
> 
> Has anyone seen reference to this?



No Hybrid... It is one or the other... It is either Radio or IR. The lack of a simple add on trigger for this system (i.e cannot control non 600EX-RT via radio) makes this system crippled and limited. Shame.


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## MikeHunt (Mar 4, 2012)

JurijTurnsek said:


> But it does leave me wondering - will all Canon bodies (apart from rebels) have the full featured menu for controlling flashes over radio? Also, can you control flash settings by individual flashes (from the body)?



Presumably any EOS body that supports ETTL-II flash in the hot shoe can have their menu system updated by a new firmware release (e.g. just as the 7D will require a new firmware update from 1.2.5 because of the new GP-E2 geo-tagging accessory)


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## MikeHunt (Mar 4, 2012)

US$470 purported for the new ST-E3 is more than 2 x ST-E2 price. Of course, 3rd part 'cloners' will beat this by half

http://www.lightingrumours.com/yongnuo-st-e2-vs-canon-st-e2-review-published-689

Dozens of reviews/YouTube videos show the Yongnuo ST-E2 has better reach than Canon ST-E2 both indoors/outdoors and in all light conditions, so will the Chinese version of ST-E3 have an orange backlit LCD screen on their 'knock-off' replica when it comes out this summer?? ???


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## bycostello (Mar 4, 2012)

awsome system, but have 6 flashes and triggers to match.... just too much and while i'd like all canon it isn't really an upgrade to what i have..


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## SPG (Mar 4, 2012)

Pau said:


> Its funny that on the lower right there is a list of links, and if you watch the first link which is a video, it compares the 580EXII to the 600EX-RT and a mysterious 600EX. Does this mean that canon will release a version of the 600 without Radio triggering ?



There is a 600ex without radio triggering intended for sale in countries that don't have an open frequency policy for the 2.4ghz range. I'm not really sure what countries these would be since 2.4ghz/wifi is fairly accepted internationally. It will be interesting to see what (if any) price difference there will be between the 600ex and 600ex rt, and where we'd be able to buy them. Importing them back from Kreblakistan might make them more expensive than the RT version.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 4, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> No Hybrid... It is one or the other... It is either Radio or IR. The lack of a simple add on trigger for this system (i.e cannot control non 600EX-RT via radio) makes this system crippled and limited. Shame.


Maybe shame, but hardly surprising - why would Canon cannibalize their 600ex sales by making the new, shiny system compatible with the tons of 580ex out there? Actually, I'm very happy about this and will get a used 580ex for a reasonable price soon


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## kpk1 (Mar 5, 2012)

A few things:
The Gr mode doesn't allow more the minus one stop sync with older than 2012 cams. So if it's a 5D2 this means the sync is 1/100.
If you use a 5D2 or 7D you may use ratio mode ore no ratio to benefit from the HSS and sync.
The new RT system doesn't allow 2nd rear curtain (not sure if only in Gr mode).
Take those things with a grain of salt. Until we will get our hands on this is what I know.
The Gr mode is a 5 individual group controlled like Nikon's CLS system only that Canon's is a 5 radio groups. Each group has it's way independently: ETTL or M or off.
For those with studio strobes the 3rd party is the way to go since Canon doesn't provide radio for them.

http://pixsylated.com/blog/canon-600ex-rt-first-impressions/comment-page-1/#comment-3572



> Charleston Dave says:
> March 2, 2012 at 2:20 pm
> 
> Congrats on being a leader, Syl! Not a bad subset of features compared to your Speedlite wishlist for Canon from a year or two ago!
> ...



I'll add having a 600EX-RT on the cam, you have AF assist lamp and radio Gr mode.
If you use PW on the cam with an EX on it, you miss the AC3.


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## GL (Mar 6, 2012)

What I really like about the system is that it's two-way, meaning you can trigger the camera from the flash unit. That means I can pose someone in a fixed position and then walk around them with a wireless flash taking different shots without needing a camera remote.


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## Jamesy (Mar 6, 2012)

GL said:


> What I really like about the system is that it's two-way, meaning you can trigger the camera from the flash unit. That means I can pose someone in a fixed position and then walk around them with a wireless flash taking different shots without needing a camera remote.



I do this already with a $29 Yongnuo RF-602 flash trigger system. I hang a RF-602 via the included C3 Canon cord that attaches to the camera on one channel and then have a trigger on a different channel in the camera hotshoe to trigger the lights.

The two-way feature that is very cool with the new system is the reporting back from the slaves to the master via an audible beep that they are ready to go again - this is something I have always admired in Nikon's CLS system.


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## briansquibb (Mar 6, 2012)

MikeHunt said:


> US$470 purported for the new ST-E3 is more than 2 x ST-E2 price. Of course, 3rd part 'cloners' will beat this by half
> 
> http://www.lightingrumours.com/yongnuo-st-e2-vs-canon-st-e2-review-published-689
> 
> Dozens of reviews/YouTube videos show the Yongnuo ST-E2 has better reach than Canon ST-E2 both indoors/outdoors and in all light conditions, so will the Chinese version of ST-E3 have an orange backlit LCD screen on their 'knock-off' replica when it comes out this summer?? ???



You will find that any radio system is better than IR for reach. That is one reason why the radio controllers such as PW are so popular.

With the PW you mount the ST-W2 on the miniTT1 and all its functions become radio - making the AC3 unecessary. The same applies when mounting a 580EXII.

This may apply to the other radio systems such as Odin


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## Jamesy (Mar 6, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> With the PW you mount the ST-W2 on the miniTT1 and all its functions become radio - making the AC3 unecessary. The same applies when mounting a 580EXII.
> 
> This may apply to the other radio systems such as Odin


I was not really familiar with the with the AC3 - just checked out a brief video - it is pretty cool. Can a ST-E2 control remote flashes manually? I owned one for a brief period and sold it and can't remember that functionality. Does the miniTT1 transmit any signals it receives via its hotshoe?


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## briansquibb (Mar 6, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > With the PW you mount the ST-W2 on the miniTT1 and all its functions become radio - making the AC3 unecessary. The same applies when mounting a 580EXII.
> ...



ST-E2 and 580EX2 control the groups in the same way that they do without the mini - except that with the miniTT1 they do it through radio rather than IR


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## Maui5150 (Mar 7, 2012)

SPG said:


> I like the functionality in the system, but I am turned off by the price. You can get an Odin set and an extra receiver for the price of the ST-E3 which will do just about the same thing.
> I wouldn't worry too much about the stated range of 98' as I think that Canon is being overly cautious in promising more than it can deliver. A real working range for a 2.4ghz system is more like 100 meters than 100 feet. They must be working under the assumption that most people will use it in the same area as a wifi setup, microwave, and cordless phone which all can potentially cause interference. I guess that it can still function consistently within 100' under those conditions.



Actually with Odin or PW Flex you get MORE, because you can hook up and fire other speedlites as well as studio strobes and anything else that can be hooked up to the Statos or PW II, PW III, etc... For that reason alone, I would opt for an Odin or PW over paying $450+ for the ST-E3


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## briansquibb (Mar 7, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> SPG said:
> 
> 
> > I like the functionality in the system, but I am turned off by the price. You can get an Odin set and an extra receiver for the price of the ST-E3 which will do just about the same thing.
> ...


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## wickidwombat (Mar 7, 2012)

i really want to see a performance comparison between the 580 and 600 as on camera flash using a 70-200 f2.8 at 200 to see how the 200 zoom compares to the 105 max of the 580, That would be the only reason for me to consider this flash since i already have quite a few 580s and odins for remote


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## Jamesy (Mar 7, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> i really want to see a performance comparison between the 580 and 600 as on camera flash using a 70-200 f2.8 at 200 to see how the 200 zoom compares to the 105 max of the 580, That would be the only reason for me to consider this flash since i already have quite a few 580s and odins for remote


How do you like the Odin's? I would imagine you prefer them over the PW miniTT system and the Radio Poppers since you own them.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 7, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > i really want to see a performance comparison between the 580 and 600 as on camera flash using a 70-200 f2.8 at 200 to see how the 200 zoom compares to the 105 max of the 580, That would be the only reason for me to consider this flash since i already have quite a few 580s and odins for remote
> ...



I love the odins the on screen controls are really cool and super easy to use
you can adjust power in 1/3 stop increments
and balance your A/B group power ratios really easy with the rear display
reliability and range is great too
1 button push to enable / disable HSS
its very clear from the way the odins are layed out they were designed to complement the canon flash system the best


I did look at the PW and radio poppers but for the price I think the odins take the win


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## Jamesy (Mar 7, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Jamesy said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...



Thanks. I have not really had much time to investigate them. Can you have more than A/B groups? Can you have some strobes on TTL and others on manual. Can you control manual power levels from the camera (trigger)?


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## wickidwombat (Mar 7, 2012)

yep it does more groups

this guy has done a good review of the odins
http://smokingstrobes.com/odin


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## Jamesy (Mar 8, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> yep it does more groups
> 
> this guy has done a good review of the odins
> http://smokingstrobes.com/odin



Thank you - I will check it out.


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## V8Beast (Mar 10, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I love the odins the on screen controls are really cool and super easy to use
> you can adjust power in 1/3 stop increments
> and balance your A/B group power ratios really easy with the rear display
> reliability and range is great too
> ...



What kind of range are you getting out of the Odins? The new 600EX is intriguing, but I'm put off by the advertised 100 foot range. I need a trigger than can work in open spaces outdoors at 150-200 feet.

Also, how is the build quality and durability of the Odins? They look much better than you're typical Hong Kong triggers, at least in the pictures.


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## Jamesy (Mar 10, 2012)

They got an excellent in depth review here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157628093126883/?search=odin. I really like the notion of the new Canon system and if I was ready to drop 3k on speedlites I would dive right in. The Odin's (and other like them) OTOH offer a road-map to go RF wireless over TTL by not limiting me to 600EX-RF flash units. I will likely go with 600's over time and the nice thing is they would likely work with the Odin's too.


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## alew3 (Mar 10, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Jamesy said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...




Do you know if they fixed the pre-flash on manual exposure, so that it works with light meters such as Sekonic? 

Also, can you confirm the 1/3 stop increments, because, what I read on the reviews they mentioned only 1 full stop increments!

Those are my only restrictions, that prevent me shifting from a PW TT5 / TT1 / AC3 solution, which misfire a lot and only do 1 stop increments. The only advantage left would be, that they are integrated with Sekonic to fire via radio.

thanks!


EDIT: to clarify, 1 stop increments in MANUAL mode, I know it does 1/3 increments in TTL


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## SPG (Mar 13, 2012)

alew3 said:


> Do you know if they fixed the pre-flash on manual exposure, so that it works with light meters such as Sekonic?
> 
> Also, can you confirm the 1/3 stop increments, because, what I read on the reviews they mentioned only 1 full stop increments!
> 
> ...



The preflash on Manual is due to the fact that the flashes themselves are set to TTL even when the Odin has that flash set to Manual. By setting the flash to TTL, the Odin can talk to it and tell it what power to flash at. So basically, no...it's still going to preflash when the Odin is set to Manual. The way to overcome this is to just walk over to your flash and set it to manual and use the Odin like any other "dumb" trigger. If the flash is set to manual it won't preflash, and you'll also get those 1/3rd stop adjustments. 



V8Beast said:


> What kind of range are you getting out of the Odins? The new 600EX is intriguing, but I'm put off by the advertised 100 foot range. I need a trigger than can work in open spaces outdoors at 150-200 feet.
> 
> Also, how is the build quality and durability of the Odins? They look much better than you're typical Hong Kong triggers, at least in the pictures.


Build quality seems just fine to me. Not anything better or worse than typical camera gear. I've used them in the rain and they worked just fine. They've been kicking around in my backpack for weeks now and they still fire 100%.

I did a quick range test and they fired just fine up to about 300-400' for me...I don't know if they work well beyond that as I ran out of room to go further. I've been using them in much shorter distances like 100-150' regularly and they've been 100% reliable there. Like any 2.4ghz trigger (canon 600ex rt included), you should get good consistent results for a couple hundred feet, but they can still be susceptible to wifi interference. I haven't had that problem yet since I'm out in the woods, but I know it's a potential problem. The 600exrt has a nice feature where you can compare signal strengths to choose a good one. That's pretty cool.


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## patz (Mar 13, 2012)

some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?


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## V8Beast (Mar 13, 2012)

SPG said:


> I did a quick range test and they fired just fine up to about 300-400' for me...I don't know if they work well beyond that as I ran out of room to go further. I've been using them in much shorter distances like 100-150' regularly and they've been 100% reliable there. Like any 2.4ghz trigger (canon 600ex rt included), you should get good consistent results for a couple hundred feet, but they can still be susceptible to wifi interference. I haven't had that problem yet since I'm out in the woods, but I know it's a potential problem. The 600exrt has a nice feature where you can compare signal strengths to choose a good one. That's pretty cool.



Thanks for the feedback. That's some very impressive range, and more than adequate for my needs. The Canon setup is nice, and I particularly like how you can use the STE3 and 600EX to remotely trigger the shutter, but I'm not sure I can justify the price premium over the Odins. I can pick up a 550EX, which has nearly as much power as a 600EX, for $200, throw on a $140 Odin receiver, and add an extra off-camera flash while retaining ETTL capability for $340. That's half the price one one 600EX.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 13, 2012)

patz said:


> some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?


I would certainly hope so, also so you can mix it up with existing collections of 580 s

I'm looking forward to comparing this flash against the 580 II with on camera flash and 70-200
to see how good the 200 zoom is relative to the 105


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## SPG (Mar 14, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> patz said:
> 
> 
> > some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?
> ...



I was under the impression that it could do either radio or IR, but not both at the same time.


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

SPG said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > patz said:
> ...



It would be interesting to see what could be achieved to drive 580's through PW/Odins whilst at the same time drive the 600s through radio


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## patz (Mar 14, 2012)

SPG said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > patz said:
> ...


It's ok not to do both at the same time. I don't have any flash yet. I just want to buy one for my 600D and hope I'll be able to use wireless function.


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## FunPhotons (Mar 14, 2012)

Price doesn't bother me. Trying to make good photos is a pain, lugging equip around, lens, filter, flash, gel selection ... I've held off buying a PW system because it's clunky and doesn't fully integrate with my cameras capabilities. The Canon system is clean, simple and will work flawlessly. Even gels - I hate stupid tape or velcro solutions, finally there is a nice holder and a clean way to manage them. 

I saw a comparison somewhere of the new Canon against some 3rd party wireless, and the Canon came out $75 more expensive for a three flash with ST-E3-RT solution (and that was before the ST-E3 last minute price drop). 

So I preordered three flashes and the ST-E3-RT.


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> Price doesn't bother me. Trying to make good photos is a pain, lugging equip around, lens, filter, flash, gel selection ... I've held off buying a PW system because it's clunky and doesn't fully integrate with my cameras capabilities. The Canon system is clean, simple and will work flawlessly. Even gels - I hate stupid tape or velcro solutions, finally there is a nice holder and a clean way to manage them.
> 
> I saw a comparison somewhere of the new Canon against some 3rd party wireless, and the Canon came out $75 more expensive for a three flash with ST-E3-RT solution (and that was before the ST-E3 last minute price drop).
> 
> So I preordered three flashes and the ST-E3-RT.



In what way does the PW not integrate with your system?


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## FunPhotons (Mar 14, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> In what way does the PW not integrate with your system?



My understanding is that I cannot fully control the speed lights from the back of the camera, as I can with a Canon flash on a Canon body using the full menu system. I would have to walk around and change settings by hand, which would slow down my workflow too much. The new Speedlights also have the slaves communicating back to the master when they have recharged, with a friendly beep to tell you when they're ready (hurrah! no more black frames). Finally, while the PW have a new version out that is smaller and more streamlined I believe, when I last considered it I thought they were way too large and clumsy on the top of my camera. 

If I'm wrong on any of these particulars please let me know. I'm not trying to bash PW or any 3rd party trigger - just saying that I've held out for the fully integrated Canon solution.


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > In what way does the PW not integrate with your system?
> ...



Are you talking manual flash then?

With eTTL there is full control when putting a master in the hotshoe (such as a 580EXII or ST-E2. Full flash compensation is available that goes to all slaves automatically). I believe this is the same with the Odins.

The recently relased PW Plus III is not an eTTL controller


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## FunPhotons (Mar 14, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Are you talking manual flash then?
> 
> With eTTL there is full control when putting a master in the hotshoe (such as a 580EXII or ST-E2. Full flash compensation is available that goes to all slaves automatically). I believe this is the same with the Odins.
> 
> The recently relased PW Plus III is not an eTTL controller



My understanding is that HSS isn't available, manual isn't available, and I wasn't sure about ETTL. Sounds like the latest isn't eTTL. I don't know about flash exposure compensation and the other bits. 

The only thing that doesn't work with Canon is 2nd curtain sync over wireless - and odd omission. I don't think there are technical reasons preventing it, but since Canon doesn't support it I have to assume there is some timing problem or other.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Are you talking manual flash then?
> ...



HSS is definitely available with PW - it is totally automatically and is an improvement on the Canon HSS. Manual is the same as the infared system. Also the PW can fire a manual slave (such as a studio light)

Second curtain does work with PW

I am using PW miniTT1 and flexTT5. 

I believe Odins have the same functionality at a lower price.


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 14, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> HSS is definitely available with PW - it is totally automatically and is an improvement on the Canon HSS. Manual is the same as the infared system. Also the PW can fire a manual slave (such as a studio light)
> 
> Second curtain does work with PW



Interesting, Syl Arena has stated unequivocally that HSS is only available with an all Canon system, maybe I misunderstood him. 

I read through their theory for improved performance. I've noticed that the Canon engineers are _extremely_ conservative, a trait that I can appreciate being I'm an engineer is a similar field (i.e. my customers are, shall we say, intolerant of errors on my part). So they also under spec and over deliver. Since they bracket HSS with guard bands I expect they want to make sure that you get the shot - the flash tube is warmed up before the shutter opens. The PW guys are willing to live closer to the edge. 

No matter, Canon RT is still less equip, lower profile (wireless built into flash and eventually built into bodies I'm sure), and I've heard a rumor from a Canon rep that they'll be releasing receivers for legacy flashes and studio strobes, plus of course the recycle report back. I'm glad I waited.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > HSS is definitely available with PW - it is totally automatically and is an improvement on the Canon HSS. Manual is the same as the infared system. Also the PW can fire a manual slave (such as a studio light)
> ...



I have a stack of 580EX/580EXII so to move to all Canon 600 RT would mean a big hit and high cost. I hope you are right about the inclusion of legacy speedlights - that would potentially make life easier in the future


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 15, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I have a stack of 580EX/580EXII so to move to all Canon 600 RT would mean a big hit and high cost. I hope you are right about the inclusion of legacy speedlights - that would potentially make life easier in the future



I hear you, keeping up with the technology curve can be painful! I've just got a 430EX, a 530-IIex and I was planning on buying a third and final flash when they did the latest upgrade - and it happens that they didn't include mixing optical and RF wireless. Purely a software omission I'm sure for marketing purposes. 

At any rate I pretty much decided to go whole hog and get the three 600's and digital controller. For the times I want more flashes I can go optical, futz with line of site, hotshoe cord and use all five. If they do release a legacy receiver then I'll buy two for my older flashes. 

I've been surprised before, but I think/hope these flashes will last a long, long time.


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## V8Beast (Mar 15, 2012)

I thought I read somewhere that you can trigger the shutter remotely with the new 600EX/STE3 combo. For instance, with the ST-E3 mounted on the body, I believe you can trigger the shutter on the camera via radio with a 600EX. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I really like the Odins, but this feature would be a nice perk.


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 15, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> I thought I read somewhere that you can trigger the shutter remotely with the new 600EX/STE3 combo. For instance, with the ST-E3 mounted on the body, I believe you can trigger the shutter on the camera via radio with a 600EX. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I really like the Odins, but this feature would be a nice perk.



Yes I've read that multiple places. Only with a 2012 camera I believe (5DMKII and 1DX). A ST-E3-RT will also remote trigger.


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## V8Beast (Mar 16, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I read somewhere that you can trigger the shutter remotely with the new 600EX/STE3 combo. For instance, with the ST-E3 mounted on the body, I believe you can trigger the shutter on the camera via radio with a 600EX. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I really like the Odins, but this feature would be a nice perk.
> ...



Very cool. That does choosing between the Odins and the 600EX more difficult. I like the performance and price of the Odins, but having an OE Canon solution for radio flash triggering as well as radio shutter triggering would eliminate a half dozen accessories out of my camera bad, which is getting crowded as is already.


----------



## wickidwombat (Mar 16, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> FunPhotons said:
> 
> 
> > V8Beast said:
> ...



I have a seperate bag for flash gear
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lowepro-NOVA-200-AW-SLR-Camera-Bag-/270688343239?pt=AU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories&hash=item3f064854c7
It holds 
4 x 580ex2
4 x yongnuo external battery packs
4 x odin recievers
2 x odin transmitters
1 x Ni-Mh battery charger
piles of spare AA eneloops
Gels
I also keep a physical eTTL cable in there just in case
and a gary fong light sphere and stofen omni bounce 
also just in case


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 16, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > FunPhotons said:
> ...



Its not the flash gear that is hard to carry it is the stands and umbrellas that are hard. 3 stands, 3 7ft parabola, couple of small 42inch , various light modifiers.


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## FunPhotons (Mar 16, 2012)

With the integrated RT flash solution I'll be able to keep my kit down to a single Pelican 1510 case http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1510 and a small photo backpack. 

Basically a few lenses, flashes, tripod head and pano bar, compact Manfrotto stands and light modifiers. OK I cheat and the tripod is extra. 

I'm working my way down to one lens, and a total bare minimum of equipment. I'm working on a way to use the flashes without stands or umbrellas.


----------



## V8Beast (Mar 16, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I have a seperate bag for flash gear



Me too. I just don't like having lots of gear, but I suppose that makes me a freak. I've tried my best to keep the amount of equipment I have to minimum, but this s**t keeps piling up, I tell ya


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## briansquibb (Mar 16, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> With the integrated RT flash solution I'll be able to keep my kit down to a single Pelican 1510 case http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1510 and a small photo backpack.
> 
> Basically a few lenses, flashes, tripod head and pano bar, compact Manfrotto stands and light modifiers. OK I cheat and the tripod is extra.
> 
> I'm working my way down to one lens, and a total bare minimum of equipment. I'm working on a way to use the flashes without stands or umbrellas.



Love to hear about the standless flashes - I find I use 3 for portraits - one each side, one overhead. Using the supersize umbrellas do give wonderfull soft light that wraps around amazingly well


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 16, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Love to hear about the standless flashes - I find I use 3 for portraits - one each side, one overhead. Using the supersize umbrellas do give wonderfull soft light that wraps around amazingly well



Its a work in progress. I love to use stands and big modifiers, but don't like carrying, setting up and breaking them down. It seems like every piece of gear is just another thing keeping me from taking pictures.

So far I've got good success with a few techniques, that I won't spill here! I'll either put up a web page, or write a small book on the subject when the experiments are concluded.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 16, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Love to hear about the standless flashes - I find I use 3 for portraits - one each side, one overhead. Using the supersize umbrellas do give wonderfull soft light that wraps around amazingly well
> ...



Sounds revolutionary -good luck!


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## wickidwombat (Mar 16, 2012)

i've got some stands and umbrellas that fit into a couple of old cheap rubbish tripod bags i had lying around you know the wobbly $10 aluminim tripods that struggle to hold a point and shoot. turns out those nylon bags hold a flash stand with head and 33" umbrella attached so nothing to break down

then i have a bigger stand with C stand and 40" umbrella in bigger manfrotto tripod bag

I have also seen 1m long bags on ebay that claim to hold 3 stands but i like this setup as i can pick and choose but there is no breaking down of stands which is nice

backdrops however  thats another storey

also i find gorrilla pods make awesome standless flash supports if you have trees or poles around on location
so i keep a couple of them handy in my kit


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## kdsand (Mar 16, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> I thought I read somewhere that you can trigger the shutter remotely with the new 600EX/STE3 combo. For instance, with the ST-E3 mounted on the body, I believe you can trigger the shutter on the camera via radio with a 600EX. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I really like the Odins, but this feature would be a nice perk.



Yes they can trigger remotely. Saw them demo this weekend at Canon seminar.


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 16, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Sounds revolutionary -good luck!



Probably not, experiments end up with nothing more often then not.  But sometimes ....


----------



## patz (Mar 17, 2012)

kdsand said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I read somewhere that you can trigger the shutter remotely with the new 600EX/STE3 combo. For instance, with the ST-E3 mounted on the body, I believe you can trigger the shutter on the camera via radio with a 600EX. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I really like the Odins, but this feature would be a nice perk.
> ...


Can I trigger the camera with IR instead of radio? I'm using 600D and not planning to buy ST-E3 (I would rather upgrade my camera in the future than using an on-top accessories, unconvenient).


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 17, 2012)

patz said:


> Can I trigger the camera with IR instead of radio? I'm using 600D and not planning to buy ST-E3 (I would rather upgrade my camera in the future than using an on-top accessories, unconvenient).



Don't know about the 600D but I have an IR remote trigger for the 5DMKII. Annoying little thing, it only supports 2S delay shoot mode (AFAIK), and the remote has to be pointed just right to get it to fire. For self shots (group and self portrait) I have to quickly try and trigger and put my arm down. 

It does work and is cheap however.


----------



## tedhunter (Apr 5, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> I thought I read somewhere that you can trigger the shutter remotely with the new 600EX/STE3 combo. For instance, with the ST-E3 mounted on the body, I believe you can trigger the shutter on the camera via radio with a 600EX. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I really like the Odins, but this feature would be a nice perk.



Actually don't have the STE3, but I have tried this with multiple 600EX-RT units, it works very well. Not only does the trigger work consistently at a very distant range but the slave unit you are triggering from can also flash for the exposure if it's part of the groups you have configured to fire.

One question that I had that I wanted someone with an STE3 to confirm is, can you really set second curtain sync on a remote flash triggered from the STE3 or is that incorrect in the documentation?


----------



## FunPhotons (Apr 6, 2012)

tedhunter said:


> One question that I had that I wanted someone with an STE3 to confirm is, can you really set second curtain sync on a remote flash triggered from the STE3 or is that incorrect in the documentation?



http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/5/0300007515/01/st-e3-rt-c-en.pdf

What page does it say that? As far as I can see 2nd curtain isn't mentioned at all.


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## tedhunter (Apr 6, 2012)

I was looking at the page here, under the specifications tab:

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/accessories/speedlite_transmitter_st_e3_rt.do


----------



## FunPhotons (Apr 6, 2012)

tedhunter said:


> I was looking at the page here, under the specifications tab:



That's a puzzle, I can't explain it. 

Syl Arena, who got a pre-release ST-E3-RT and 3 600-RTs, has said on several occasions that second curtain sync still isn't available, and he seemed to throughly have tested it. My guess its an oversight.


----------



## roumin (Apr 13, 2012)

tedhunter said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I read somewhere that you can trigger the shutter remotely with the new 600EX/STE3 combo. For instance, with the ST-E3 mounted on the body, I believe you can trigger the shutter on the camera via radio with a 600EX. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I really like the Odins, but this feature would be a nice perk.
> ...



I just got my ST-E3 and the 600EX and the only 2 sync options are first curtain and HSS - NO second curtain option.


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## AvTvM (Apr 13, 2012)

roumin said:


> I just got my ST-E3 and the 600EX and the only 2 sync options are first curtain and HSS - NO second curtain option.



Canon is charging outrageous prices for the new flashes and ST-E3 but did NOT update their ancient wireless ETTL-protocol to include flash on 2nd curtain. It is ridiculous and a real shame and one of the reasons I am holding off from buying an RT-set. 

The Phottix Odin however enables 2nd curtain flash with Canon Speedlites, including 580EX/II and 430EX/II. It is obvioulsy neither difficult nor costly to include 2nd curtain flash in a radio trigger protocol. The Odin also allows triggering of monolights - even in mixed sets with Canon Speedlites. 

I will wait to see, whether or not Canon brings out RT-receivers to include existing Speedlites (especially 580/II and 430/II) as well as monolights in a wireless setup and updates their wireless ETTL-protocol to include 2nd curtain flash. 

These 2 features [2nd curtain, RF-triggers for existing speedlites and monolights] will be important factors in my decision on how to replace my 7D plus EF-S and EF glass in the future. The longer Canon drags its feet on this, the higher tNikon's chance to also bring out radio flash triggering with full iTTL support.


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## briansquibb (Apr 13, 2012)

I have always enabled 2nd curtain in the camera not the flash ...


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## AvTvM (Apr 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I have always enabled 2nd curtain in the camera not the flash ...



this will only work with Speedlites in the hotshoe or connectd to the hotshoe via cable. 

If you are using speedlites on a wireless connection - both the "old" optical method or RT/radio - you will not get flash on the 2nd curtain using Canon-only gear. 2nd curtain flash is simply not implemented in Canon's wireless ETTL-protocol.

Phottix Odins however seem to be capable of this (not tested myself, and no idea, how exactly they get htis to work), don't know about other third party radio triggers (PW-Flex, RadioPoppers) ... 

I don't care, HOW Canon implements it, I just want them to do it ... quickly! It should really, really have been included with the new set of radio-trigger flashes (600EX-RT) and controller (ST-E3-RT).


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## Marsu42 (Apr 13, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> If you are using speedlites on a wireless connection - both the "old" optical method or RT/radio - you will not get flash on the 2nd curtain using Canon-only gear. 2nd curtain flash is simply not implemented in Canon's wireless ETTL-protocol.



You're correct - I only discovered that after I got my 480ex2 flash. It's ridiculous I can use hss sync and not x-sync when operating it on infrared, and imho it is plausible that this is a shortcoming of the ettl protocol. As it is, it ruins the creativity for sport shots with non-direct flash.


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## Strobe the globe (May 11, 2012)

I have recently bought the Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT flash, and I did an "Unboxing Hands-On Video Review", if you're interested ... 

Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT - Unboxing & First Look

I'm super happy with it! It has great power when zoomed in e.g. illuminating faces very well when zoomed in to 200mm shooting more than 10 meters away from my subject.


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## pwp (May 16, 2012)

I use HSS a lot and depend on it. But _DUH_...it's taken until today to find out about the PocketWizard MiniTT1 and the power efficiencies it provides when using HSS. I gather it will work beautifully with my 1D4 but no action with the 5D3. Current speedlights are 580ex & 580exII. Fully prepared to update to 600ex-RT to get optimum HSS performance.

Does the ST-E3 offer the same efficiencies as PocketWizard MiniTT1 in HSS mode when paired with 600ex-RT? Given I'll be working with 1D4, 5D3 & 1DX, what hardware combination is going to deliver the optimum HSS outcomes? 

Paul Wright


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## Daniel Flather (Jun 5, 2012)

I have two 600ex-rts on order; when will the ST-E3-RT be available? No one seems to have the ST-E3-RT.


----------



## Daniel Flather (Jun 12, 2012)

Got my st-e3-rt last friday and I'm loving the set up.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 12, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> Phottix Odins however seem to be capable of this (not tested myself, and no idea, how exactly they get htis to work), don't know about other third party radio triggers (PW-Flex, RadioPoppers) ...




the odins have the screen with controls on the transmitter so you enable HSS second curatin etc on that the same as you would on a 580, you can also control your seperate group powers etc from there A:B ratios etc

another neat trick i tried with the odins was got a 3.5mm stereo splitter cable and plugged it into 1 reciever the plugged the PC-sync cables into 2 flashes (In manual mode) and the 1 reciever can fire 2 flashes! great for blowing backgrounds to white etc


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## Marsu42 (Jun 15, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> I will wait to see, whether or not Canon brings out RT-receivers to include existing Speedlites (especially 580/II and 430/II) as well as monolights in a wireless setup and updates their wireless ETTL-protocol to include 2nd curtain flash.


The only indication I've seen is a post here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/canon/announcements/new-canon-600ex-rt-speedlite-flash-powerhouse stating that Canon will release a legacy radio trigger add-on, I guess once everybody who is in a hurry bought multiple 600rt flashes.

Any news/schedule on the radio tigger add-ons, or if they'll be able to trigger non-Canon flashes as well?

If they are, except for 2nd curtain x-sync the 3rd party alternatives become obsolete, but on the other hand Canon might be hesitant to radio-trigger cheap Yongnuos cannibalizing their own expensiv flash sales. What do you think?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 15, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> The only indication I've seen is a post here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/canon/announcements/new-canon-600ex-rt-speedlite-flash-powerhouse stating that Canon will release a legacy radio trigger add-on, I guess once everybody who is in a hurry bought multiple 600rt flashes.



You're referring to the statement by an anonymous poster that 'a Canon rep told me...' Not the most reliable of sources...

I expect Canon will release one down the line, but first they'll release a 430EX II replacement with -RT, then wait for sales of both the 600EX-RT and it's new smaller cousin to slow down, before they release an RF receiver to allow older flashes to work with the RT system.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 15, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> You're referring to the statement by an anonymous poster that 'a Canon rep told me...' Not the most reliable of sources...



Yep, I know - that's why I was asking here. Waiting for a Canon legacy trigger wouldn't be a problem for many, but it would be bad if they *only* could trigger Canon flashes and not dumb, cheaper ttl ones. Do you think Canon would do that to its valued customers? Without this information, it's very hard what way to go - 3rd party or Canon.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 15, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> ...it would be bad if they *only* could trigger Canon flashes and not dumb, cheaper ttl ones. Do you think Canon would do that to its valued customers?



Yes, I think Canon would very likely do _exactly_ that...


----------



## AvTvM (Jun 15, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I expect Canon will release one down the line, but first they'll release a 430EX II replacement with -RT, then wait for sales of both the 600EX-RT and it's new smaller cousin to slow down, before they release an RF receiver to allow older flashes to work with the RT system.



exactly my expectation. It would be so truly Canon to handle it that way. 

* 600EX-RT is a 580EX II with radio wireless and 200m reflector added, but price nearly doubled
* ST-E3 lacks AF-light capability but is still bloody expensive 
* Radio receivers enabling seemless radio control setups with new and existing Canon flashes being maliciously withheld ... 

so incredibly wrong, so incredibly irksome, so incredibly short-sighted.

Radio receivers at a very reasonable price (think USD/Euro 99 !) would lead to really quick propagation of teh Canon wireless system in the market. It would still require purchase of at least an ST-E3 or one 600EX-RT ... and would make that purcase really worthwile. And if they like the radio-wireless experience, many users would sooner rather than later add additional 600EX-RT's (and other future radio-controlled flashes) to their setups. 

Withholding simple receivers for 580 and 430 - at least for the version II's [if that is necessary to tie the entire setup into the camera menu system] and withholding firmware updates for pre-2012 bodies (5D 2, 7D) to also allow use of the mixed ETTL-manual "group" features on 600EX-RT/ST-E3 just makes a lot of people sit on the sidelines and wait to see whether Canon eventually gets its act together. 

I for one, am holding off buying into the Canon radio-wireless system, until all components including receivers are out, prices have come down and a firmware update has finally enabled second curtain sync via the Canon wireless ETTL protocol and until my 7D gets a firmware upgrade that wil allow it to control radio-flashes exactly like 2012 EOS models (5D 3 and 1D X). If Canon charges outrageously I may pick up PWs or Phottix Odin to run my 580/II's and 430's radio-controlled. Until then I stick with optical control using the 7D's popup master-flash.


----------



## AvTvM (Jun 15, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ...it would be bad if they *only* could trigger Canon flashes and not dumb, cheaper ttl ones. Do you think Canon would do that to its valued customers?
> ...



THAT I would have no problem with. Original Canon radio receivers working seemlessly with Canon Speedlites 580EX/II and 430EX/II would be sufficient. Even I would consider it asking too much from Canon to expect them to include ETTL-control for Yongnuos. That task is up to Yongnuo et al - if they can reverse engineer it and make it work at significantly lower cost, fine. If not, then not. 

But I do expect Canon to help users to tie their 580/430's [at least the Mk. II's!] into a Canon radio-controlled flash setup. After all, their clients may have purchased these flashes as recently as only days befor the 600EX-RT was announced or became available locally. Canon owes one to their clients on that count as far as I am concerned.


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## FunPhotons (Jun 15, 2012)

Heck, I'd be happy if they just shipped the damn ST-E3


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## MarkWebbPhoto (Jun 16, 2012)

I currently have 3 600EX-RT units and I am in love with them. I'm working up a review right now but here's a quick post for naysayers. 

Shot with 5D MK II
Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II
Two 600EX-RT speedlites flashed at full power, I left them in the frame for you to see their exact location
Triggered with 1 600EX-RT on the hot-shoe
HSS was enabled
Shot in broad daylight
1/8000 sec, f/3.5, ISO 100

This setup took only a couple minutes and weighed far less than my Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS kit and was much smaller. The lights work great despite a few limitations of using an older model body.


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## kdsand (Jun 16, 2012)

MarkWebbPhoto said:


> I currently have 3 600EX-RT units and I am in love with them. I'm working up a review right now but here's a quick post for naysayers.
> 
> Shot with 5D MK II
> Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II
> ...



I'm sure it simplifies your kit/setup time.

Ouch could you have found a less photojenic model?


----------



## FunPhotons (Jun 16, 2012)

Yep, I've got three as well, and a ST-E3 I've been waiting forever for. I'm really happy I waited until these guys, it's a small, light and flexible system that works really well. I can afford some expensive flashes, can't afford lugging lots of stuff around.


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## MarkWebbPhoto (Jun 17, 2012)

kdsand said:


> MarkWebbPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I currently have 3 600EX-RT units and I am in love with them. I'm working up a review right now but here's a quick post for naysayers.
> ...



Best to experiment with friends before working with clients with a new setup! I'll be sure to grab a hot babe next time, in the meanwhile I just have photos of my sweaty friend Sholten after he received a bad haircut haha.


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## DarkKnightNine (Jun 18, 2012)

Daniel Flather said:


> I have two 600ex-rts on order; when will the ST-E3-RT be available? No one seems to have the ST-E3-RT.


I have it and been using it for a while, what would you like to know? Shot the attached picture with it and two 600EX-RTs outside in the rain.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 18, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Shot the attached picture with it and two 600EX-RTs outside in the rain.



You seem to be very confident in your equipment's weather sealing :-o ... any difference between the 600rt & 580ex2 here?


----------



## MarkWebbPhoto (Jun 18, 2012)

I have written a very detailed review on the 600EX-RT, it includes some tips for setups and I shot a variety of different events to cover as many people as possible who would be interested in the new system.

Overall I am very impressed with the new system and glad to see that high-speed sync works like a charm.

http://markwebbphoto.com/blog/2012/6/canon-600ex-rt-review


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## Marsu42 (Jun 26, 2012)

MarkWebbPhoto said:


> My review and guide for the 600EX-RT - http://markwebbphoto.com/blog/2012/6/canon-600ex-rt-review


Concerning the limitations of the 600rt and 5d2: I read Canon's manual p.51 and don't quite understand it :-o ... Canon says the the x-sync drop of 1 stop and non-working hss is *only* for radio remote operation, *not* for optical remote?

[quote author=MarkWebbPhoto]
Despite the many warnings that the maximum sync speed will be 1-stop lower and that radio-transmitter shooting will be disabled, I have only run into one limitation so far with my 5D MK II and my 1D MK IV. 
[/quote]
You're saying you find that the x-sync actually works at *full* speed with the 5d2/600rt combination despite what Canon says (and the flash giving the <!Tv> warning) ?!?

[quote author=MarkWebbPhoto]
My friend Marcus was one of the first folks I know in my area to get the 5D MK III so I wanted to test to see if HSS had changed any. In our findings the 5D2 was just as good as the 5D3. Nothing gained or lost between the bodies except a few menu options and maybe something else I am missing.
[/quote]
And in addition to the above, you're saying that hss works with the 5d2/600rt combination on radio remote even if Canon says the exact opposite?!? Sorry if I mis-read your review, but I really want to be clear about this.


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## FunPhotons (Jun 26, 2012)

Yes, as verified by Syl Arena who was the only photog to get pre-release versions of the flash as far as I know, hss works with the 5DMKII at all shutter speeds. He says this again in his Canon Professional Network article on the flash. I've also verified it with my 5DMKII. On the 1-stop loss there also, while I haven't done extensive testing, I haven't noticed any problems. 

Presumably Canon is being conservative, and it doesn't work with all prior camera bodies, but I haven't heard of any tests with anything other than a 5DMKII.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 26, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> Presumably Canon is being conservative, and it doesn't work with all prior camera bodies, but I haven't heard of any tests with anything other than a 5DMKII.


Thanks - one more reason for me to save the money and get "just" a 5d2 now. Btw: the article says it works even on the 60d just fine: http://pixsylated.com/blog/canon-600ex-rt-first-impressions/


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## Daniel Flather (Jun 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Daniel Flather said:
> 
> 
> > I have two 600ex-rts on order; when will the ST-E3-RT be available? No one seems to have the ST-E3-RT.
> ...



I've had it for a few weeks now, and it works quite well.


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## Infrared_Fred (Jun 30, 2012)

Surprisingly enough the ST E3 and the 600EX RT also work with both the T3i & the recently announced T4i ,also the 600's do have AF assist beams and they will exchange data back and forth with the body, and Canon Technical support Has told me told me that there is away of running IR/Radio at the same time because i specifically talked about running my MT 24 EX optically and then without time to de rig shooting optically with my 600 EX RT's.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

Infrared_Fred said:


> and Canon Technical support Has told me told me that there is away of running IR/Radio at the same time because i specifically talked about running my MT 24 EX optically and then without time to de rig shooting optically with my 600 EX RT's.



Unfortunately, there definitely is _no_way_ to use the 600rt optical and radio remote _at_the_same_time_, I guess it would be possible technically, but the flash firmware simply isn't build this way. I guess Canon wants to sell new rt units and maybe the upcoming rt receivers by blocking a mixed legacy path.

But you can simply cycle through the various master/slave/hotshoe modes with the new remote button on the left side, so maybe that's what Canon told you about quickly switching modes.

Btw, the other way around is also possible - you can set a cf to disable all rt or ir functionality if you only have the respective remote equipment to avoid confusion.


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## Lawliet (Aug 6, 2012)

Mixed mode would have one drawback: you need time to account for all the preflashing going on.
Getting rid of the morse from the controller allows for those two additional groups, combining both modes would likely come with a mess of use cases not unlike the compatibility charts for F-mount.
Now putting the ST-E3 on top of a TTl-passthrough trigger not only gives the legacy flashes something to do but also doubles as the missing individual/manual group.


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## FunPhotons (Aug 8, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Infrared_Fred said:
> 
> 
> > and Canon Technical support Has told me told me that there is away of running IR/Radio at the same time because i specifically talked about running my MT 24 EX optically and then without time to de rig shooting optically with my 600 EX RT's.
> ...



Well you can use RF and optical only flashes simultaneously, Syl Arena spelled this out on his CPM article. What you do is put the flashes in manual mode to disable any ETTL pre flash, then use a dumb optical slave trigger on your older slaves.


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## briansquibb (Aug 9, 2012)

Lawliet said:


> Mixed mode would have one drawback: you need time to account for all the preflashing going on.
> Getting rid of the morse from the controller allows for those two additional groups, combining both modes would likely come with a mess of use cases not unlike the compatibility charts for F-mount.
> Now putting the ST-E3 on top of a TTl-passthrough trigger not only gives the legacy flashes something to do but also doubles as the missing individual/manual group.



ST-E3 now works on the PW TT1 passthough


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## victorwol (Sep 25, 2012)

So you are usingn TTL on some old models with PW and also the new Canon radios too? All at once?


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## virsago_mk2 (Feb 3, 2013)

I finally purchased a pair of 600EX-RT & one ST-E3 RT.

Moved from Phottix Odin, I must say that I'm somewhat a bit disappointed.

*1. Lack of 2nd curtain sync. *
My Phottix Odin can do this on any EX series flash. Why the hell ST-E3 RT can't even do this?

*2. Lack of slave zoom control from ST-E3 RT. *
Again, it is a feature that Phottix Odin can do.

*3. Lack of USB port for potential firmware upgrade. *
Look at Phottix Odin, they have numbers of improvements from their firmware upgrades.

Seriously if Canon can somehow implement a firmware upgrade on the ST-E3 RT & 600EX-RT to add those 2 above features (2nd curtain sync & slave zoom control), I'll gladly ditch my Phottix Odin completely & go for Canon.

Though, I'm glad I still have my Phottix Odin system. In the mean time, I'll continue keep using my Phottix Odin with 600EX-RT.


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## RMC33 (Feb 3, 2013)

virsago_mk2 said:


> I finally purchased a pair of 600EX-RT & one ST-E3 RT.
> 
> Moved from Phottix Odin, I must say that I'm somewhat a bit disappointed.
> 
> ...



You can 2nd curtain synch all your flashes using a Synch cord and moving off camera. I agree though.. no wireless 2nd curtain is a pain.


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## RMC33 (Feb 3, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> RMC33 said:
> 
> 
> > You can 2nd curtain synch all your flashes using a Synch cord and moving off camera. I agree though.. no wireless 2nd curtain is a pain.
> ...



Read it in a book you recommended to me=).


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## RMC33 (Feb 3, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> RMC33 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Yup! It sucks you can do it wireless but I should have been a bit more clear.


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## meenanm (Jun 4, 2013)

read through the thread and searched other sites. Is there a way to use the ST-E3 and trigger the flash with the Sekonic L-478-DR?


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## scott (Sep 25, 2013)

FunPhotons said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I've read that multiple places. Only with a 2012 camera I believe (5DMKII and 1DX). A ST-E3-RT will also remote trigger.
> ...


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## Click (Sep 25, 2013)

Yes.

EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III, EOS 650D, EOS 6D and the new EOS M mirrorless camera.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/speedlite_flash_system_for_eos.do


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## privatebydesign (Sep 25, 2013)

Click said:


> Yes.
> 
> EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III, EOS 650D, EOS 6D and the new EOS M mirrorless camera.
> 
> http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/speedlite_flash_system_for_eos.do



You can remote trigger with a 600 and/or ST-E3-RT with earlier bodies too if you use the cable SR-N3 Release Cable, I have one and use it on my pre 2012 1Ds MkIII's.


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## Jim Saunders (Sep 28, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> Click said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.
> ...



Vello makes a similar cable for 10 bucks rather than 70+ for the Canon part, too.

Jim


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## Marsu42 (Sep 28, 2013)

troutmouth said:


> I would like to see a speedlite with double the power of the 600



How about 1x 600rt :-o ?


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## Lawliet (Sep 28, 2013)

troutmouth said:


> I would never need to bring cumbersome strobes out of the studio again



You want a faster/no mechanical shutter. Cut the ambient light instead of adding more power to balance ageinst it.


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## alexanderferdinand (Oct 4, 2013)

@Lawliet: you mean for example the Fuji 100(s), like David Hobby is so excited about?
Another reason why I want this camera.....


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## Lawliet (Oct 10, 2013)

Exactly. The Fuji would be an example, although my mind was at the other end of the price spectrum, MF+leaf shutter...but that doesn't matter.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 10, 2013)

Leaf shutters are not the answer to high speed sync, they give you maybe two stops, not even that at full power, before they become faster than the flash pulse. Electronic switch on switch off of the sensor is the way to get true high speed sync, but even then you are limited to your flashes duration, start using usable sun overpowering flash outputs and your durations are longer than your shutter speed. 

The X100s gives a true full power sync around 1/800 sec (two stops), by the time it gets to 1/1000 sec it is acting as a second aperture and reducing your flash output. Once you go into reduced flash output HSS becomes equivalent.


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## Lawliet (Oct 10, 2013)

To put this into perspective: if I use a SK lens wide open, about the DOF of f/2 on small frame, and position my light about 10m from the model, I still get a t0.1 of 1/2200s - a decent margin faster then the 1/1600 of the shutter.
Lets pretend I use a more efficient LST or get closer to say 5m then we're at shorter then 1/4000, again t0.1.
Doesn't sound that unworkable, does it?
(NB: Nevada desert, or the Negev/Dead Sea as daytime locations)


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## privatebydesign (Oct 10, 2013)

Lawliet said:


> To put this into perspective: if I use a SK lens wide open, about the DOF of f/2 on small frame, and position my light about 10m from the model, I still get a t0.1 of 1/2200s - a decent margin faster then the 1/1600 of the shutter.
> Lets pretend I use a more efficient LST or get closer to say 5m then we're at shorter then 1/4000, again t0.1.
> Doesn't sound that unworkable, does it?
> (NB: Nevada desert, or the Negev/Dead Sea as daytime locations)



That hasn't put anything in perspective. What flash are you using? What is your flash power and setting to give you a t.1 of 1/2200 because it isn't close to a "normal" flash at anything like full power, that would make your 10m distance as useful as a cigarette lighter.


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## Lawliet (Oct 10, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> That hasn't put anything in perspective. What flash are you using? What is your flash power and setting to give you a t.1 of 1/2200 because it isn't close to a "normal" flash at anything like full power, that would make your 10m distance as useful as a cigarette lighter.



A Move 1200L, at 300Ws set for fast flash duration while maintaining constant color temp. Industry standard.
Ganging up the 600EX in my bag at that t0,1 would net me about 400Ws, although w/o proper mounting one had to rely on their built in focus. The important part: With IGBT controlled flash the flash duration drops faster then the power emitted. Half the power allows for about 2 stops faster shutter speed, while HSS wastes more power then the changed exposure settings would net.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 11, 2013)

Ah the confusion of a name. This being a Speedlite thread I assumed we were talking about on camera flashes, not $6,000 Broncolor heads and power packs.


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## Lawliet (Oct 11, 2013)

That might be a point if they'd behave differently.
Remember why flashguns are so popular with anything highspeed related? Because their t0,1 drops fast as you cut power a bit. Just because the ambient/flash ratio curve has a local minimum you can't assume that that this is the best possible use case.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 11, 2013)

I well understand the practical application of IGBT circuitry.

Here is a test of three 600EX-RT's at 1/8000 sec at f8 with the brightest Florida sun in the frame and underexposed by about 5 stops.

At 1/8000 sec your $6,000 Broncolor is outputting 5-8 Ws.

Best IGBT bang for the buck if you are going the studio lights route, PCB Einsteins.


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## Lawliet (Oct 11, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> I well understand the practical application of IGBT circuitry.
> 
> Here is a test of three 600EX-RT's at 1/8000 sec at f8 with the brightest Florida sun in the frame and underexposed by about 5 stops.


leaf shutters reach 1/1600 tops, the Fuji 1/4000...1/8000 is...interesting, you must be using a truly ancient 1D 


> At 1/8000 sec your $6,000 Broncolor is outputting 5-8 Ws.


You're just an order of magnitude off. That alone is more then 3 stops error, not to account for the additional two stops penalty for HSS mode on a flashgun. About f/[email protected](GN 64) with a 50°reflector.
Or 30-40 600EX to do the same job a single Move does, just at vastly different recycle times and battery capacity. So much for the viability of HSS.???


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## privatebydesign (Oct 11, 2013)

Lawliet said:


> > At 1/8000 sec your $6,000 Broncolor is outputting 5-8 Ws.
> 
> 
> You're just an order of magnitude off. That alone is more then 3 stops error, not to account for the additional two stops penalty for HSS mode on a flashgun. About f/[email protected](GN 64) with a 50°reflector.
> Or 30-40 600EX to do the same job a single Move does, just at vastly different recycle times and battery capacity. So much for the viability of HSS.???



Interesting. This is from the Move 1200L manual. I am sure Broncolor themselves are wrong. 

I wasn't espousing the benefits, advantages or disadvantages of HSS, I was pointing out the limitations of leaf shutters in the context of a Canon Speedlites and ST-E3--RT thread.


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## Lawliet (Oct 11, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> Interesting. This is from the Move 1200L manual. I am sure Broncolor themselves are wrong.


Not wrong, just assuming people are capable of reading the right column. Try the one relevant for shooting outdoors/in mixed light.


> I wasn't espousing the benefits, advantages or disadvantages of HSS, I was pointing out the limitations of leaf shutters in the context of a Canon Speedlites and ST-E3--RT thread.


In a fatally flawed way...the limitation, based on SK's leaf shutter, costs about 1.5 stops of required power reduction but gains 5 stops via shutter speed - unless you're deliberately doing it wrong you increase the relative power tenfold. That's about the kind of limitation I'd like to see in every field.


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