# EOS 70D, DIGIC 6 & 18mp Sensors



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 20, 2013)

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<strong>Where is the 70D?


</strong>We’re told today that the 70D has been pushed into April, we had hoped that an announcement would be coming next week.</p>
<p><strong>DIGIC 6

</strong>
DIGIC 6 will be introduced tonight in the SX280 HS as <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/03/canon-powershot-sx280/" target="_blank">reported a few days ago</a>. We’re told we can expect DIGIC 6 to make its first appearance in an EOS camera inside the EOS 70D.</p>
<p><strong>18mp Sensors

</strong>
Keep an eye on the SL1, as it has a brand new 18mp sensor on the inside. As present, we can’t confirm that it’s also in the T5i, though it would make sense. We’re told that the 70D will have the same sensor. This is from a new source.</p>
<p><strong>Lenses

</strong>
Nothing on the lens front, though we expect to see one announced with the EOS 70D.</p>
<p>The EF 00-400 f/4L IS 1.4x is becoming a running joke with folks at Canon, I don’t think any one really knows why it hasn’t been officially announced yet.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Drizzt321 (Mar 20, 2013)

> The EF *200*-400 f/4L IS 1.4x is becoming a running joke with folks at Canon, I don’t think any one really knows why it hasn’t been officially announced yet.



FTFY


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## Don Haines (Mar 20, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told today that the 70D has been pushed into April, we had hoped that an announcement would be coming next week.


April! But I'm impatient NOW!


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## hammar (Mar 20, 2013)

Then it is probably reasonable to assume the same "new" 18MP sensor in 700D.


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## bseitz234 (Mar 20, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > We’re told today that the 70D has been pushed into April, we had hoped that an announcement would be coming next week.
> ...



Probably just means they're trying to announce closer to availability... they knew it wouldn't be ready to ship till June, so just delayed the announcement till closer to that date. 
</random speculation>


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## media student (Mar 20, 2013)

hammar said:


> Then it is probably reasonable to assume the same "new" 18MP sensor in 700D.



It is really possible that Canon developed a new 18 mp sensor. There was a new patent for anti aliasing and reduce moire in february i think here at CR. And I´m glad to hear that 70d won´t be a mp-monster so the noise will be acceptable.


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## preppyak (Mar 20, 2013)

hammar said:


> Then it is probably reasonable to assume the same "new" 18MP sensor in 700D.


It'd be pretty funny if only the new 100D and 70D had it, and they left the same sensor from the 650D in the 700D.

I would assume that this means the 70D will have the video autofocus tech connected with the sensor


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## expatinasia (Mar 20, 2013)

It will be interesting to learn what the Digic 6 brings to the table.


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## pierlux (Mar 20, 2013)

Hey CR guy, are you sure you didn't mess up a bit with numbers? I mean, apart from the 00-400, can you confirm the source said 70D and not 700D? Thanks!

edit: you were typing your implicit confirms while I was sending my post...


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 20, 2013)

hammar said:


> Then it is probably reasonable to assume the same "new" 18MP sensor in 700D.



Could be, but I can't confirm it.


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## Don Haines (Mar 20, 2013)

Im betting new technology across the board for APS-C.... Better ISO performance and better live-view / movie focus for all APS-C.

Space is not infinite in factories, there is only space for so many fabrication lines.... If they have a new/smaller fabrication process it took a lot of time and money to set it up, and they had to keep the old APS-C fabrication line up while the new one was installed, tested, debugged, and the resulting products tested. If they have the new one up and running, my bet is that they are ripping out the old one, changing it/converting it to do the same thing for the FF fabrication, and that means no more old APS-C chips for existing cameras.... and they will soon be replaced/discontinued.

And why APS-C first and not FF? Because smaller chips are easier to make, and there is a lot more money to be made from APS-C than FF.


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## RLPhoto (Mar 20, 2013)

Ah the EF 200-400 f/4L IS... The worst kept secret and will be the most un-exciting announcement ever.


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## Daniel Flather (Mar 20, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Ah the EF 200-400 f/4L IS... The worst kept secret and will be the most un-exciting announcement ever.



Ah, yes, the 200-400/4 IS and this 135/1.8 IS I keep hearing aboot. Now a 00-400/4, is that different from the new 0-400/4?


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## Don Haines (Mar 20, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Ah the EF 200-400 f/4L IS... The worst kept secret and will be the most un-exciting announcement ever.



No no... he's not talking about the 200-400.... he's talking about the 00-400 lens.... obviousl some new super-ultra-mega wide angle lens...


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## unfocused (Mar 20, 2013)

A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?

No worry, for some folks nothing Canon will ever do will be enough.


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## Malte_P (Mar 20, 2013)

unfocused said:


> A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> 
> No worry, for some folks nothing Canon will ever do will be enough.



well as you may noticed the 650D had a NEW sensor too.
now how well does that worked out?

worse DXO mark then the 550D sensor and the hybrid focus not worth much.

i will be excited when i see the results of this "new" sensor justify it.


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## distant.star (Mar 20, 2013)

.
That's right!

Canon offers DSLR cameras in whatever color you want -- as long as it's black! Do they still have that silver thing in the low-end?



unfocused said:


> A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> 
> No worry, for some folks nothing Canon will ever do will be enough.


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## RS2021 (Mar 20, 2013)

unfocused said:


> A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> 
> No worry, for some folks nothing Canon will ever do will be enough.



One new lens a week ... two new bodies every month...60 Mp sensor for under $1200...so they can wank on it arguing every day here in the forum ...and some of their laundry needs doing and floors too... Get on it Canon


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## tcmatthews (Mar 20, 2013)

I hope is actually a new sensor and not more on chip auto focus spots and a stronger AA filter for video that will just rob more IQ from an already dated sensor.


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## steliosk (Mar 20, 2013)

unfocused said:


> A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> 
> No worry, for some folks nothing Canon will ever do will be enough.



550D 600D 7D 60D 650D share the same sensor, and if the rurmors are valid, 700D and 100D will have 18mp too
where is the evolution on that?

Seems to me that Canon sells the old technology as new, sucking our pockets dry.. so no, its not enough for me!


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## Malte_P (Mar 20, 2013)

tcmatthews said:


> I hope is actually a new sensor and not more on chip auto focus spots and a stronger AA filter for video that will just rob more IQ from an already dated sensor.



as i wrote that would be the 650D II sensor.


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## steliosk (Mar 20, 2013)

Malte_P said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> ...



+1


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## dadgummit (Mar 20, 2013)

I think 18 MP is more than enough for 99% of photographers. I do hope it is a completely different sensor that just happens to also have 18mp... With less low ISO noise, etc.


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## Dylan777 (Mar 21, 2013)

unfocused said:


> A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> 
> No worry, for some folks nothing Canon will ever do will be enough.



About 14-24 or 16-35 III that will out peform Nikon 14-24 at f2.8 ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## RS2021 (Mar 21, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> ...



Dreams do come true when you wish upon a star...delusion is the best cure for discontentment


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## iP337 (Mar 21, 2013)

steliosk said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> ...



Try to keep up, Megapixels aren't everything, in fact I hope Canon sticks to 18mp for APS-C. After seeing the "evolution" to image quality Sony and Toshiba did with 24mp APS-C sensors image if Canon could apply those advancements to an 18mp one. 

18mp is a nice balance for resolution and diffraction limits (even though at this high resolution diffraction will be barely noticeable), but it's nice to know that every Canon lens isn't diffraction limited wide open (f/5.6 being the slowest stop without diffraction limitations) and I think we can start dreaming of better signal to noise ratios that rival 5D markII with a usable ISO 3200, better Dynamic Range and Cleaner video for Canon APS-C ;D 

I just hope Canon doesn't skimp on features like All-I and IPB video codecs, auto ISO limiters or AFMA.


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## psolberg (Mar 21, 2013)

dadgummit said:


> I think 18 MP is more than enough for 99% of photographers. I do hope it is a completely different sensor that just happens to also have 18mp... With less low ISO noise, etc.



That is the same thing everybody says, and then toss out their cameras whenever a higher MP body comes out. lets stop pretending and accept the fact 18MP is ok when that is the only choice  that would be crazy. Having a choice of ANYTHIG but 18


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## masheville (Mar 21, 2013)

The specs from Monday said that the two new cameras both had hybrid CMOS II sensors (as opposed to I) with a wider focus area than on the 650d. This has been clear since Monday that it would be a "new" sensor. I assume that this is designed to address the criticism of the 650d and EOS M sensor that the on-chip phase detection sensors are in a narrow, small area in the middle of the sensor. I assume that the new sensor will have phase detection sensors in a wider area which will help with focusing on objects that move out of the center of the frame. In addition, more phase detection spots may help with the speed of the AF which is obviously a huge problem. 
What is very unclear is if the rest of the sensor will have any improvements. I have my doubts because it didn't with the 650d.


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## RGomezPhotos (Mar 21, 2013)

This is REALLY good stuff! A new 18MP sensor and the DIGIC 6! New DIGIC means lots of great stuff coming!


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## dunkers (Mar 21, 2013)

It seems that everybody has forgotten about how Nikon the route Nikon went with the D3 and D3S.

Both are 12.1 megapixel sensors, but the D3S's sensor was completely new and significantly better. It was the low-light king until the current generation came out. The native ISO range of the D3S was higher than the D3.

If the rumored specs are true, then the native ISO range for the T5i and 70D are much higher than before (100-25,600). Hopefully this means they greatly improved the low light capabilities.

Everybody is blinded by the megapixel war that's been going on. If Canon can do what Nikon did to the D3S, then I welcome these new cameras with open arms. I for one think that 18mp is more than enough.


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## starship (Mar 21, 2013)

*it´s canon 2009 with a new badge*

well, a last we get a new sensor. or - in fact - a new badge with the great 2009 technology. and a little tweak. great.

we all like retro.

btw: did you know, intel just announced their new pentium II, 800 mhz prozessor???


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## mkabi (Mar 21, 2013)

*Re: it´s canon 2009 with a new badge*



starship said:


> well, a last we get a new sensor. or - in fact - a new badge with the great 2009 technology. and a little tweak. great.
> 
> we all like retro.
> 
> btw: did you know, intel just announced their new pentium II, 800 mhz prozessor???



Well if that little tweak is anything like this>>>>>http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/03/canon-announces-the-development-of-new-high-sensitivity-sensor/

I don't give a crap about 18MP, lower or higher..... cause its going to blow everything else (mainly the entry level DSLRs) out of the water.


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## that1guyy (Mar 21, 2013)

I honestly don't care about the MP count but the actual performance of the sensor. Most likely this is the same sensor as the past 3-4 years, which is just a kick to the groin for anyone with any faith left in Canon. There is a slim chance that this is indeed a completely new sensor and just uses the same MP count but really, how likely is it Canon not change the MP count at all? Not much, I think, especially from a marketing perspective. If on the off chance, that this is a new sensor, with improvements in DR and noise, I am in but at this point, I think it is just wishful thinking.

What do you guys think?


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## bvukich (Mar 21, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Ah the EF 200-400 f/4L IS... The worst kept secret and will be the most un-exciting announcement ever.
> ...



It's so wide it takes a detailed scan of the brain of the person behind the camera and delivers a picture of what they're thinking.


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## TheBadger (Mar 21, 2013)

I think this "new" thing is just a marketing bluff. They will probably take the same 18MP sensor, remove the AA filter and call it done. It might increase sharpness and details, but it won't improve dynamic range.


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## Artifex (Mar 21, 2013)

bvukich said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



Awesome! I've been waiting for so long for a lens with a ∞ field of view!


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## Woody (Mar 21, 2013)

Malte_P said:


> well as you may noticed the 650D had a NEW sensor too.
> now how well does that worked out?
> worse DXO mark then the 550D sensor and the hybrid focus not worth much.
> 
> i will be excited when i see the results of this "new" sensor justify it.



+1

Wish list: contrast AF as fast as OM-D, 14 stops low ISO dynamic range and 0.5 stop improvement in high ISO performance.

Reality: perhaps nothing.... I dare not dream any more, having been disappointed by Canon too many times...


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## Woody (Mar 21, 2013)

dilbert said:


> If the MP count has not changed then the underlying technology behind the pixels/sensor has not changed. i.e. there will be no DR/noise improvements over the 60D.



Indeed. I do not see why Canon does not want to take advantage of an improved sensor design to venture into higher pixel count territory. It is after all a chance for them to brag.


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## ragmanjin (Mar 21, 2013)

tcmatthews said:


> I hope is actually a new sensor and not more on chip auto focus spots and a stronger AA filter for video that will just rob more IQ from an already dated sensor.



Spot on. Canon would do themselves good to follow in Pentax's footsteps, offer an AA-less camera that's basically for stills only, and destroy the "video" option on the mode dial with an obviously outdated terrible interface and frustrating experience so that nobody ever uses it. "It's there, but don't bother" kind of thing. Better yet, cut live-view and video out entirely and make a stills-only high-res AA-less gem like in the good old days of low-ASA Velvia and sh¡t. No other consumer SLR could touch it.
But Canon just keeps hacking the video in all their new cameras. All the new features are for video. I remember seeing a poll in Shutterbug or Popular Photography last year saying less than a third of the people who make videos in life make them with their SLRs rather than their smartphones. Canon is crippling their stills shooters across the entire lineup of cameras to gain a little on soon-to-be-outdated 1080p super-downsampled video-res-optimized sensors. Keep the 1D-Cs and Vixias separate from the high-end EOS SLRs, mixing the two is killing us. Rather than upgrading, I'll just remove the AA filter from my T2i for $400 and end up with the same dynamic range, same resolution, but better sharpness and upscale-ability than any of the newer 18mp sensors.


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## Hobby Shooter (Mar 21, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


You're probably right.


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## candyman (Mar 21, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> ........................The EF 00-400 f/4L IS 1.4x *is becoming* a running joke with folks at Canon, I don’t think any one really knows why it hasn’t been officially announced yet.


 
I would say it IS already a running joke. 
I really wonder why Canon is following such strategy towards its customers. Making announcements long before release of a product and then postpone the actual release and availibility.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 21, 2013)

bvukich said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...


Ha ha ha ;D ;D ;D


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## bardamu (Mar 21, 2013)

I wonder if we mightn't see more branding or sub-branding of camera sensors, certainly in DSLRs, moving forwards, similar to the situation with Intel chips and so forth. Certainly the word Exmor has already entered the camera-geek lexicon.

During the guts of the MP race that was as easy way to distinguish between them but not any longer. A few months back a female friend asked for my help in picking a compact camera prior to a holiday to Japan, assuming that I knew something about photography (risky assumption!!) Having been out of the compact market for many years I was staggered to see many of them packing 18MP. Same as the top-of-the-line 1DX. Huh??

I'm quite happy if a lot the crop sensors stay around 18MP personally. For many types of shooting what you can do with 18MP (with correct technique) is already pretty amazing. I do a lot of focus stacking and with the MP-E 65mm at 5:1 it is possible to take objects 4 or 5mm and blow them up to enormous sizes. More MP will only slow down my processing times and bloat my hard drives.


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## weixing (Mar 21, 2013)

bvukich said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...


Ha ha ha... What You Think Is What You Get... ;D

Have a nice day.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 21, 2013)

unfocused said:


> A new sensor! Oh no. What will people whine about now?
> 
> No worry, for some folks nothing Canon will ever do will be enough.


+1
Just bcoz they see the number "18" since 2009, some people have the habit of cribbing and crying for nothing ... doesn't matter even if it is a new sensor, they will just have their specially designed shades that magically exclude the the words "new sensor". Maybe they are incapable of making decent images with an 18 MP sensor in which case their immediate need is not a new higher MP count sensor but some basic education in photography.


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## Woody (Mar 21, 2013)

From DPReview early preview:

"The focusing speed of the updated hybrid phase and contrast-detect design remains unchanged, which unfortunately means that it still lags behind current mirrorless cameras from Sony, Olympus and Panasonic."

Well done Canon for the LACK of progress in this critical department. Wow! I am totally floored.


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## carlosmeldano (Mar 21, 2013)

Woody said:


> From DPReview early preview:
> 
> "The focusing speed of the updated hybrid phase and contrast-detect design remains unchanged, which unfortunately means that it still lags behind current mirrorless cameras from Sony, Olympus and Panasonic."
> 
> Well done Canon for the LACK of progress in this critical department. Wow! I am totally floored.



so, we have a newly developed sensor that is:
- slow in hybrid AF (just like the previous one)
- same MP count from 2009
- we don't know the IQ, but I don't hope too much

I'd be curious what has Canon developed for years... are they really _that_ lame?


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## Albi86 (Mar 21, 2013)

I am afraid they did the same as with the 5D2/3. 

Basically as many MP, basically same sensor tech, but new processor and maybe stronger AA filter to get better high-iso and video performance.

Actually, I have to say I am surprised to see a Digic 6 already. Might be that Canon has better means to upgrade the processor than the sensor. 

However, time will tell.

I am in the market for a crop camera to pair with a good tele. Between 6D and D600 I already chose the D600; let's see if this camera looks better than the D7100.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 21, 2013)

Albi86 said:


> I am afraid they did the same as with the 5D2/3.
> 
> Basically as many MP, basically same sensor tech, but new processor and maybe stronger AA filter to get better high-iso and video performance.


You seem to have conveniently forgot the *new* 63 zone dual-layer metering sensor, *new* 61-point high density reticular autofocus, including up to 41 cross-type AF points and 5 dual diagonal AF points, , *new* in-built HDR, *new* dual slots for CF and SD cards (just to name a few) ... well I suppose when one does not want to accept facts it is hard to see :


Albi86 said:


> let's see if this camera looks better than the D7100.


I've used EOS 60D & EOS 7D for over 3 years (sold them to upgrade to 5D MK III and some L glass), I currently own a Nikon D7000 ... D7000 is a camera that fills the gap between 60D and 7D i.e. a little better than 60D and not as good as 7D ... the same applies to D7100 i.e. it will fill the gap between EOS 70D & EOS 7D II


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## gmrza (Mar 21, 2013)

Woody said:


> From DPReview early preview:
> 
> "The focusing speed of the updated hybrid phase and contrast-detect design remains unchanged, which unfortunately means that it still lags behind current mirrorless cameras from Sony, Olympus and Panasonic."
> 
> Well done Canon for the LACK of progress in this critical department. Wow! I am totally floored.



I have to admit it puzzles me a little. It doesn't look like the sensor is much of an advance on the 650D. Assuming the sensor in the 100D and 700D are the same, that begs the question why anyone would upgrade to a 700D.

When looking at the Canon range, I like the EOS M form factor, but I won't be pulling the trigger until there is a significant advance in sensor technology. For now, I'll suck it up and lug the 7D.


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## Albi86 (Mar 21, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > I am afraid they did the same as with the 5D2/3.
> ...



Talking about trolls... what's the point in mentioning other features when the topic is the new sensor? We're comparing this seemingly new sensor to the old one. Same amount of MP sounds a lot like marginal upgrade, that's the point in question.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 21, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> DIGIC 6
> DIGIC 6 will be introduced tonight in the SX280 HS as reported a few days ago. We’re told we can expect DIGIC 6 to make its first appearance in an EOS camera inside the EOS 70D.



DIGIC6 is bad news since Magic Lantern won't run on these cameras for some time - and thus one of the few features that Canon cameras have over Nikon. But I'm keen to see what new features are in the chip, can't be just the speed because DIGIC5 does ok here.


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## mb66energy (Mar 21, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I am shure that canon is able to build revolutionary sensors intellectually and technically ... but they can't bring it to market because of intellectual property reasons (patents etc.).

Compare an EOS 20D (2004) and a some current model: There has been slight progress in IQ compared to the decade before the EOS 20D has been available.

Today's sensors are mostly out-developed and the headroom for improvement is small. Now Sony has found a profound improvement in DR, perhaps by the only available technology at the moment. They protect it by patents and other companies are blocked ... until the other companies find another way to improve sensor DR without offending existing patents.


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## Stuart (Mar 21, 2013)

With the 5D3 and the 6D as the better level cameras just out, it would be Odd (though nice) for the 70D's new sensor to jump much beyond that performance. If there was a significant jump in sensor tech then i'd expect the 1D to get a refresh first/at the same time. Sadly i most think the new sensor will mostly be a Video improvement. 

Lets not forget they need to save something interesting for the 7D mk2.
So unless the 60D was the end of the range with everything stepping down to the 100D (like the 1000D tried), 

This 70D will either be a video enhancement or a 7Dmk2 to add to the prosumer 5/6/7D group.


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## BRNexus6 (Mar 21, 2013)

That new compact with Digic 6 can do 1080p 60fps. I wonder if we will see that feature on the 70D.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 21, 2013)

Stuart said:


> With the 5D3 and the 6D as the better level cameras just out, it would be Odd (though nice) for the 70D's new sensor to jump much beyond that performance. If there was a significant jump in sensor tech then i'd expect the 1D to get a refresh first/at the same time.



Full frame is about usable high iso, crop is about reach and low iso - and for still tripod shots even my 60d does just fine, you can do multishot noise reduction in software for a ff look. If Canon would only be able to raise the dr on low iso like Nikon did it would be an upgrade "next" and not "instead" of the 5d3/6d.


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## simonxu11 (Mar 21, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > I am afraid they did the same as with the 5D2/3.
> ...


The* "new" 63 zone dual-layer metering sensor* is from 7D(2009) and 1100D(2011), of course you can say there's nothing wrong with it


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## tomscott (Mar 21, 2013)

Anyone reading this and being reminded of the 5dMKIII thread? I don't want more than 22mp, with the D800 smashing the mp and everyone absolutely slating the 5D.

Get a grip people. I bet 80% of people buying a 700D won't do any printing all! And those that do the images won't be any bigger than A4. All the files will end up on fb or the Internet generally. So 18mp is completely overkill as it is, regardless of the competition.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 21, 2013)

Albi86 said:


> Talking about trolls... what's the point in mentioning other features when the topic is the new sensor? We're comparing this seemingly new sensor to the old one. Same amount of MP sounds a lot like marginal upgrade, that's the point in question.


Once again how convenient of you not to read/understand that I clearly stated "*new* 63 zone dual-layer metering *sensor*"


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 21, 2013)

tomscott said:


> Anyone reading this and being reminded of the 5dMKIII thread? I don't want more than 22mp, with the D800 smashing the mp and everyone absolutely slating the 5D.
> 
> Get a grip people. I bet 80% of people buying a 700D won't do any printing all! And those that do the images won't be any bigger than A4. All the files will end up on fb or the Internet generally. So 18mp is completely overkill as it is, regardless of the competition.


+1


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 21, 2013)

simonxu11 said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > Albi86 said:
> ...


Looks like someone does not know the difference between sensor sizes and what goes into having 63 zone dual-layer metering sensor in a FULL FRAME sensor ... an APS-C sensor is not a photocopy machine that you can duplicate the same page and produce a full frame sensor.


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## simonxu11 (Mar 21, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...


It's still the same technology, of course there are certain modifications for the full frame sensor. Why canon just put the newer metering sensor from top end model like what Nikon did instead of spending time to modify APS-C's metering? ;D ;D Canon is a toothpaste company, squeeze little by little, and some consumers even defend for canon decisons, Y?


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## Canon-F1 (Mar 21, 2013)

dilbert said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone reading this and being reminded of the 5dMKIII thread? I don't want more than 22mp, with the D800 smashing the mp and everyone absolutely slating the 5D.
> ...



that would be me.


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## sandymandy (Mar 21, 2013)

I heard Leica M digital only uses one zone instead of Canons 63. So what...


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 21, 2013)

simonxu11 said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > simonxu11 said:
> ...



I don't see why everyone here is getting so bent out of shape over a mid range DSLR? It's not as if we own the tech, Canon does. If you want to top Canon tech, buy a 5DIII or a 1DX....there's nothing stopping you other than cost. If you want cheap and cheerful, get a 100D....if you want sowmthing in the middle, there are lots of options. But just stop bitching that a particular camera in your price range doesn't have a particular chip or feature. No one expects Jaguar performance or features in a Ford mondeo....or do they?


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 21, 2013)

simonxu11 said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > simonxu11 said:
> ...


Yeah right! : ... what's next? you gonna say Suziki Alto or KIA Picanto cars are same as a Mercedes? : 


simonxu11 said:


> Why canon just put the newer metering sensor from top end model like what Nikon did


Bcoz Canon is not a copy cat company


simonxu11 said:


> Canon is a toothpaste company


OK, so why are you are so agitated about a toothpaste company? go buy the other brand on the dark side, it might help brighten up your mouth, I mean teeth ;D


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## Marsu42 (Mar 21, 2013)

tomscott said:


> So 18mp is completely overkill as it is, regardless of the competition.



Imho 18mp isn't overkill, but a good mp count - it allows for good print sizes even after a little cropping & perspective correction plus you can cut 4:3 and 16:9 from it an still have enough mp left. More mp is nice for macro though, higher magnification with a sharp lens at less aperture falloff.


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## CarlTN (Mar 21, 2013)

It looks like I guessed correctly. I will now pat myself on the back! The 70D will NOT be getting a 24 MP sensor. Hopefully the "new" 18MP sensor will outshine the 5 year old one used in all crop bodies up to now. Time will tell...I doubt it will even be a full stop of improved noise performance at high ISO, however much they try to push the "native" ISO range.

As for my own needs...I am just going to go full frame, and keep my old XXD crop body. I'm emotionally attached to it now. 

The 7D2, or whatever it will be called, should get something completely different in my opinion. I know it will likely still be a 1.6x crop sensor, so this is NOT prediction, just my wish. I say it should be a 1.2x crop sensor (larger than 1.3x but smaller than full frame), with pixel size equal to 26 or 27 megapixels on a full frame (so they would be ever so slightly smaller than the 1D4's...while the sensor is larger than 1.3x, with around 21-22 MP resolution). However, this would have the potential to be a 1DX killer for sports shooters, and would certainly be priced similar to a 1DX....it would be a 1 series body...so I guess really what I am talking about is a mythical "1D Mark 5", or "1DX2".

I do feel a future sports 1 series will go back to some kind of crop sensor, because reach is almost always preferred over wide angle, for sports. And the next generation high MP full frame 1 series is on the horizon, for studio and similar needs. I kind of agree with some of the sentiment from the Nikon trolls on here...the 1DX went full frame because Canon wasn't ready to introduce a high megapixel full frame 1 series body as early as they had wished to. The very large pixels of the 1DX certainly helped Canon climb to the top of the high ISO performance pile...at least with current bodies of "adequate" pixel count (meaning I'm calling a 12 MP full frame sensor inadequate in its resolution...even though the ISO noise is superior in the 6400 to 12,800 range).


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## skycolt (Mar 21, 2013)

for me 1.6x is great. People can always go FF when they want large pixel size. But there is no very good crop sensor yet. Why feed people when they are already full.




CarlTN said:


> It looks like I guessed correctly. I will now pat myself on the back! The 70D will NOT be getting a 24 MP sensor. Hopefully the "new" 18MP sensor will outshine the 5 year old one used in all crop bodies up to now. Time will tell...I doubt it will even be a full stop of improved noise performance at high ISO, however much they try to push the "native" ISO range.
> 
> As for my own needs...I am just going to go full frame, and keep my old XXD crop body. I'm emotionally attached to it now.
> 
> ...


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## dswatson83 (Mar 21, 2013)

For the last several years, megapixels have not mattered much unless you were printing big. But these days, screen resolution is catching up. 4k displays are on the horizon and 8k displays actually exist. In 2-3 years, I bet 2k displays are common place and 4k begin to pop up. An 18MP camera does not leave a bunch of room to crop if you displayed it on a 4k monitor or tv. TV displays are finally taking over prints. While most people do not print larger than a 8x10, there are a bunch of people with apple computers with 2880 pixel wide displays. While that still is not near 18mp, it's getting closer and if you crop much, you could hit that number fast. 18mp is the new minimum going forward.


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## Diko (Mar 21, 2013)

dswatson83 said:


> .... 8k displays actually exist.


 What would you use that for? Your eye can't make the difference... For a PRO - OK where a lot process can be executed on a HUGE SCREEN - only possible application. 

For a simple display - NO WAY!


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## Canon-F1 (Mar 21, 2013)

18MP are enough for a canon camera.
if it would be a sony sensor then 24 MP are fine for APS-C but with canons current sensor technology that would be too much.

the problem is that canon does NOTHING to improve image quality on APS-C sensors.
instead they try to improve the hybrid AF.

but even that does not work well.
the hybrid AF in the 700D is not faster than the 650D hybrid AF.

and i bet the 70D will have the same sensor as the 700D.
again with a lower DXOmark than the 550D sensor.

that´s what canon calls progression or innovation. :


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## simonxu11 (Mar 21, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...




Since when Suziki Alto, KIA Picanto and Mercedes are developped in the same company and share some same components, if not why you mention this
LOL.........not a copy cat company had an anoucenment for a firmware to offer clean HDMI out because of .........
Rienzphotoz told canon don't to be a copy cat company, so canon release a 700D without any worth mention updates to answer the competiton, but they copied their own product the 650D : :


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## killerBEEcamaro (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm not mad at all if it's not the same 18MP. A brand new 18MP sensor is intriguing especially with a DIGIC 6 inside the 70D. I love my 60D, but so far the 70D is sounding like a true upgrade (new 18mp sensor and digic 6) hopefully with more!

Bring it on Canon!


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## bardamu (Mar 22, 2013)

Great to see CanonRumors has a solid team in training for the 2016 Trollympics.

Events to include the 60 second Disparage, 10 second Product Assassination and the highly prestigious Trollage Ultra-Marathon.

Go team!!!


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## ragmanjin (Mar 22, 2013)

bardamu said:


> Great to see CanonRumors has a solid team in training for the 2016 Trollympics.
> 
> Events to include the 60 second Disparage, 10 second Product Assassination and the highly prestigious Trollage Ultra-Marathon.
> 
> Go team!!!




That's the spirit!
I like to think Canon has one highly-trained monkey on staff who's paid to comb the forums here and take notes, slowly and steadily leading to new (note, monkey, ACTUALLY NEW!) better cameras in the future. Otherwise all our bitching's been for naught.


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## ddashti (Mar 22, 2013)

Totally forgot about the 200-400, as if it was already announced. This doesn't make sense, unless Canon are waiting to announce with the 7D Mark II. I can see it happening.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 22, 2013)

bardamu said:


> Great to see CanonRumors has a solid team in training for the 2016 Trollympics.
> 
> Events to include the 60 second Disparage, 10 second Product Assassination and the highly prestigious Trollage Ultra-Marathon.
> 
> Go team!!!



I see you are already hitting your straps as team captain....


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## CanNotYet (Mar 22, 2013)

I am for one hoping that the Digic 6 will in combination increase the useable ISO and speed on the 70D. 100-51200 (expandable to 102400) would be nice. As usual, that would mean that about 2 stops from the limit would be actually good, and 12800 could be used in a pinch, and the excellent levels upped to 3200-6400.

I am ofc not holding my breath... 

But, 100-25600 (51200), 6400 in a pinch, 3200 still excellent I would think would be enough to get this 70D off the shelves. (1 stop over 7D, and DXOmark around 1600)

...still not holding my breath...


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## Marsu42 (Mar 22, 2013)

ddashti said:


> Totally forgot about the 200-400, as if it was already announced. This doesn't make sense, unless Canon are waiting to announce with the 7D Mark II. I can see it happening.



I don't somehow this will be an often sold combo - the 7d2 has the built-in 1.6x tc that makes it attractive for budget tele shots, but people who buy the heavy and expensive $10k 200-400 probably will buy a 5d3 or 1dx for it - otherwise you're only using the center piece of the excellent glass on crop, wasting money and weight.



CanNotYet said:


> I am for one hoping that the Digic 6 will in combination increase the useable ISO and speed on the 70D



Hardly - a faster cpu might do better jpeg noise reduction, but you're still better off shooting raw and doing selective nr in post. For iso/dr, the sensor is the component you'd have to upgrade, and Canon obviously either isn't willing or able to do it. The DIGIC6 might do better video af, faster video (1080p/60) or more fps though.


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## bardamu (Mar 22, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> bardamu said:
> 
> 
> > Great to see CanonRumors has a solid team in training for the 2016 Trollympics.
> ...



LOL Yeah I'm happy to help any way I can...

If it is permitted to be serious for a moment, when Photozone reviewed the 7D they reckoned that 18MP were plenty and that very very few lenses could make use of all of that. I also recall a review saying that 15MP (50D?) was, loosely quoting, "getting towards the limit of what is sensible on an APS-C sensor".

The releases of the 70D and 7D mk ii will be interesting. When I first picked up a 7D I was amazed by the size and brightness of the viewfinder. I didn't find the 60D to be much better than my 550D in that respect, and nowhere near as good as the 7D. If this trend continues I'll probably favour the 7D mk ii. Assuming they live up to expectations otherwise.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> I see you are already hitting your straps as team captain....


Ha ha ha ... good one. Most of these folk 8itching and cribbing about Canon cameras, for some strange reason, are usually new members or those with just a dozen or so posts ... makes me wonder if these folk are "sleeper cell" trolls, they have nothing much to contribute towards photography or help someone who is asking seeking help/advice etc but the moment there is a new Canon camera being released or if there is a discussion about a any other camera maker, they suddenly come out in the open, only to disappear.


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## CanNotYet (Mar 22, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> CanNotYet said:
> 
> 
> > I am for one hoping that the Digic 6 will in combination increase the useable ISO and speed on the 70D
> ...



Hmm, It seems I missed the "with the new sensor" after "in combination". Yes, you are ofc right. I was thinking that it might be some debanding, denoising etc software at work even on the raw pics, and the Digic 6 might handle that.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...


If you are not one of them, you should not have any problem ... if not sue me.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > If you are not one of them, you should not have any problem
> ...


OK, you are excused ;D


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

that1guyy said:


> Wow, every thread I go Rienzphoto is crying. Stop being such a big fanboy and get a life.


So you are stooping to personal attacks I get it, its a classic case of the old saying: "the hit dog howls"


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 27, 2013)

Diko said:


> dswatson83 said:
> 
> 
> > .... 8k displays actually exist.
> ...



Nonsense, heck people said the same thing about 1920x1080 for smaller than 40" and now we have it even for tablets! People claimed 1080p is useless for small sets, funny that even on a 24" monitor that a game without any AA at 1920x1200 on 24" looks like a jaggy mess, if the eye can't see it then how does it see a jaggy mess?

People print 300PPI from 21MP at 13x19" and you think 8K is silly?


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## Marsu42 (Mar 27, 2013)

CanNotYet said:


> Hmm, It seems I missed the "with the new sensor" after "in combination". Yes, you are ofc right. I was thinking that it might be some debanding, denoising etc software at work even on the raw pics, and the Digic 6 might handle that.



I hope not - though Canon might be tempted - because raw should be raw, the more updateable (!) & more powerful postprocessing software on the pc/mac shoud do everything, something done in camera is just for performance cosmetics (like forced nr on high iso). Interesting idea about software debanding though, unfortunately no one has come up with a working algorithm, in-camera or otherwise.


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## ragmanjin (Mar 29, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > I see you are already hitting your straps as team captain....
> ...



Sleeper cell trolls? Fox media getting to you? I can't speak for the rest of us, I'm just a disheartened romantic hoping Canon will find their way back to the top someday...got tired of reading the CR blog and holding my tongue every time I was disappointed with another announcement. Which has been every time since the T2i.
Contribution to photography? Here's my baby Penny in a lukewarm pan of penné. I thought that was clever. Maybe PETA can use it to sell vegetarianism.


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## Hobby Shooter (Apr 2, 2013)

ragmanjin said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...


That's weird man. Or you are a genius!!! ;D

About criticism, I think Rienz is referring to other posters than you. It's the 'Canon sucks, I'm losing customers so I will change to Nikon' by 23 year old gear heads I think he is talking about.


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