# New Speedlite Coming? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 16, 2014)

```
<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/07/new-speedlite-coming-cr2/"></g:plusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/07/new-speedlite-coming-cr2/">Tweet</a></div>
<p>A brief mention that we could see a new Speedlite announced with the EOS 7D replacement in September.</p>
<p>I do not expect an 600EX-RT replacement, but the 430EX II could be the one to get an upgrade.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


----------



## RLPhoto (Jul 16, 2014)

Sweetness. 440RT would be a nice addition to rid us of the ancient IR triggering tech.


----------



## Chaitanya (Jul 16, 2014)

perfect, i dont care about radio triggering from a flash(600ex-rt). all i need is a flash with radio and optical slave, user interface similar to 600ex, zoom head of upto 200mm( most of the 3rd party flashes competing 430ex seem to have it ) as it will help is reducing wastage on tele lenses. price should be below 20000inr(~350$). thats all i need from a new mid range flash from canon.


----------



## mrzero (Jul 16, 2014)

I can't wait. I hope this is the 4?0EX-RT everyone is expecting. I'd love to get three flashes and a controller for under $1k. I know the 600 is well-loved, but I can't justify it unless I could catch a refurb under $400. Even if I did, I wouldn't have anything to use the radio functionality with anyway.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 16, 2014)

Chaitanya said:


> perfect, i dont care about radio triggering from a flash(600ex-rt). all i need is a flash with radio and optical slave, user interface similar to 600ex, zoom head of upto 200mm( most of the 3rd party flashes competing 430ex seem to have it ) as it will help is reducing wastage on tele lenses. price should be below 20000inr(~350$). thats all i need from a new mid range flash from canon.



Which ones are they? The Phottix doesn't and neither does the YN-568.


----------



## Chaitanya (Jul 16, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > perfect, i dont care about radio triggering from a flash(600ex-rt). all i need is a flash with radio and optical slave, user interface similar to 600ex, zoom head of upto 200mm( most of the 3rd party flashes competing 430ex seem to have it ) as it will help is reducing wastage on tele lenses. price should be below 20000inr(~350$). thats all i need from a new mid range flash from canon.
> ...



Nissin Di700 has 24-200mm zoom head(although it lacks manual zoom and is significantly cheaper in India), also rumoured Metz Mecablitz 64 AF-1 is supposed to have a 24-200mm zoom head( I suspect it might cost more than 430ex). Also if the 440ex-rt did have a 24-200mm zoom head, imagine how the burn on the face of Nikon SB700 users. 

here is a sample photo that I shot with a pair of Nissin Di700 and my friends Nikon D90+85mm macro lens. I would like to try Phottix for a change. Unluckily neither Yongnuo or Phottix have any presence in India. I can purchase Nissin, Canon and Metz speedlights only with decent after sales service.


----------



## Jim Saunders (Jul 16, 2014)

Chaitanya said:


> perfect, i dont care about radio triggering from a flash(600ex-rt). all i need is a flash with radio and optical slave, user interface similar to 600ex, zoom head of upto 200mm( most of the 3rd party flashes competing 430ex seem to have it ) as it will help is reducing wastage on tele lenses. price should be below 20000inr(~350$). thats all i need from a new mid range flash from canon.



What about a 600EX? I don't know what they cost but they fit your bill otherwise. 

Jim


----------



## COBRASoft (Jul 16, 2014)

Bummer, I just bought my 4th 430 .

But ok, together with my Yongnuo's 622C's, they work like a charm and are not so pricy as those 600's.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jul 16, 2014)

Chaitanya said:


> here is a sample photo that



You should clean your sensor or use LR's healing brush 



mrzero said:


> I can't wait. I hope this is the 4?0EX-RT everyone is expecting. I'd love to get three flashes and a controller for under $1k.



Don't hold your breach: The 600rt price has dropped some and it's included all Canon deals, while the 440ex (or whatever the name) is new = price premium. It might even have some additional gimmicks like continuous video light that many people won't use but that sill drives up the price. If it's €300, I'd rather get a €400 full 600rt...


----------



## unfocused (Jul 16, 2014)

Since it almost certainly won't take a battery pack, I won't be buying. On the other hand, I welcome it because it gives me a little more (possibly imagined) assurance that Canon is unlikely to be making any major changes to the 600 RT anytime soon. 

For those in the U.S., I don't see buying a new 4xx RT when, with a little patience, you can get refurbished 600 RTs for under $400 when Canon offers them on sale.


----------



## Sabaki (Jul 16, 2014)

A 400RT series flash would be awesome!!!

I'd love a continuous light function where one could control the light output with a dial. Could be useful for star trails and fill in light for landscapes.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 16, 2014)

Chaitanya said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



I'd hardly call one third party flash that doesn't offer any manual zoom at all _"most of the 3rd party flashes competing with the 430"_. Because of this I think you will find zooming to 200mm will be a 600 and up only "feature" for the foreseeable future, product differentiation and all that. 

As for kicking sand in the eye of SB-700 owners, well I think the RT bit does that very well without the requested zoom range.

If the 4??-EX-RT came out tomorrow I might buy four in a year or so, but then again I'd probably just get more 600's.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Jul 16, 2014)

unfocused said:


> For those in the U.S., I don't see buying a new 4xx RT when, with a little patience, you can get refurbished 600 RTs for under $400 when Canon offers them on sale.



+1.
I wanted a 4X0RT a year back, but now having owned and used my 600s, I don't think I would want to lose a single feature.
And how much cheaper can they make the 4X0RT anyway? The new 430EXs sell for $ 300, and even that makes a refurb 600 look like a bargain (which it is, BTW).


----------



## Marsu42 (Jul 16, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> And how much cheaper can they make the 4X0RT anyway?



Much cheaper, look at third party flashes, even if you allow for a higher Canon quality. Flash technology isn't space age anymore - it's just about how much r&d roi and profit Canon wants to have.



privatebydesign said:


> If the 4??-EX-RT came out tomorrow I might buy four in a year or so, but then again I'd probably just get more 600's.



One advantage of having the same flash models is that if you use m flash, you get more of a feeling how much power is required - this alone is a reason I'd stay with the 600rt if I can afford it. Mixing my 600rt with my old 430ex always ends up in a struggle concerning different power output and recycling times. You big boys with studio strobes probably have more experience mixing light sources though.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Jul 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > And how much cheaper can they make the 4X0RT anyway?
> ...



Let me rephrase that- how much cheaper will Canon be willing to price the 4X0RT anyway? (considering Canon's general inclination towards R&D roi and profit)


----------



## Marsu42 (Jul 17, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> Let me rephrase that- how much cheaper will Canon be willing to price the 4X0RT anyway? (considering Canon's general inclination towards R&D roi and profit)



You don't want to hear my answer, I'm Mr. "Canon is too greedy" around here. Though I have to admit the 600rt is a very good piece of equipment, they have to get back their r&d investment and Yongnuo just showed us how not to do it with the terrible st-e3 transmitter clone.


----------



## distant.star (Jul 17, 2014)

.
Damn!!

And after I just spent $60 hard-retired dollars on a 90EX.


----------



## Zv (Jul 17, 2014)

The only way this is gonna work is if they add a built im radio slave function and make the buttons bigger but keep the price the same. Then it might make sense otherwise it's just a waste of money and you might as well just buy the 600s as you get way more for your money. 

My 430 exii cost about $250 (bought in Japan). That was about as much as I'd want to pay for something like that. I could get almost 4 YN 560s with just that amount (and I did). So it won't appeal to the cheapos and it's not powerful enough for the heavy stuff that pros need so what is the point?? 

Is it going to be aimed at those buying their first flash? A gateway to the 600? Then when they upgrade they can still use both together right? What would be their next move? Ummm sell the 4xx and get another 600, duh!


----------



## sagittariansrock (Jul 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > Let me rephrase that- how much cheaper will Canon be willing to price the 4X0RT anyway? (considering Canon's general inclination towards R&D roi and profit)
> ...




It is a rhetorical question anyway.
I think Canon will NOT price the 4X0RT low enough that too many will be inclined to settle for that instead of another 600 (especially if refurbished).


----------



## Joe M (Jul 17, 2014)

Wouldn't it be something if this new flash was being rolled out as one that could be controlled by a built-in radio wireless system in the new 7D? Yes, I know I'm reaching and just kidding. At least, I hope that's not what it'll be cause I'd be too jealous.


----------



## Click (Jul 17, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> Sweetness. 440RT would be a nice addition to rid us of the ancient IR triggering tech.



+1

I'm also looking forward to that.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jul 17, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> I think Canon will NOT price the 4X0RT low enough that too many will be inclined to settle for that instead of another 600 (especially if refurbished).



On the other hand, their latest releases (70d, 16-35L-IS) were rather reasonably priced - so you never know, even with Canon


----------



## unfocused (Jul 17, 2014)

Joe M said:


> Wouldn't it be something if this new flash was being rolled out as one that could be controlled by a built-in radio wireless system in the new 7D? Yes, I know I'm reaching and just kidding. At least, I hope that's not what it'll be cause I'd be too jealous.


I think the regulatory environment makes a built-in radio transmitter for the 7d unlikely. They would need different models for countries that don't allow radio transmitters.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Jul 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > I think Canon will NOT price the 4X0RT low enough that too many will be inclined to settle for that instead of another 600 (especially if refurbished).
> ...



hush! they will hear us!


----------



## zlatko (Jul 17, 2014)

I hope they give the new flash head the same range of rotation as the 600EX-RT. The head of the 430EX has a limited range of rotation. When holding the camera in vertical position, the head will only rotate 90 degrees straight upward. This means you can't angle it a bit backwards as you can with the 600EX-RT. Likewise, when holding the camera in horizontal position, you can only turn the flash head 90 degrees to the right (although you can turn it 180 degrees to the left). This makes the 430EX much less useful for me.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jul 17, 2014)

zlatko said:


> I hope they give the new flash head the same range of rotation as the 600EX-RT. The head of the 430EX has a limited range of rotation.



There are only so many things how you can cripple a flash so people who don't need the "pro" features like ext. power supply and fast recycle time still can be upsold to the most expensive model. Imho Canon won't change a running system, and the extended flexibility of the head is one of the things that appeals to everyone.

The other thing the "small" flash probably won't have is the great 600rt usabilty simply because the flash is smaller, so if using one on-hotshoe or on-bracket flash the 600rt will still be better unless you perfer the in-camera menu (if you manage to find it).


----------



## CTJohn (Jul 17, 2014)

It would be nice if Canon finally implemented touch controls and a menu that didn't necessitate reading the manual every time I use the flash (and I have 2 430EXII's.)


----------



## Etienne (Jul 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > Let me rephrase that- how much cheaper will Canon be willing to price the 4X0RT anyway? (considering Canon's general inclination towards R&D roi and profit)
> ...



People seem to love the YongNuo transmitter ... and it has a built in focus assist light


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jul 17, 2014)

Wow, no one stating the blindingly obvious feature that canon should put in all their flashes ----come on now, how hard is it to put a freaking battery meter in there? It would be so awesome to be setting up my lighting and turn the units on and know....ohhh it's got 3/4 power left, no need to change batteries, or wow, 1/4 left, better put some new ones in. The 600 really really should have that!!! so I won't hold my breath on a 400 series flash having such a simple feature --------- it really boggles my mind why it's not there. Maybe I'm the only one that's bugged my this????


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jul 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > I hope they give the new flash head the same range of rotation as the 600EX-RT. The head of the 430EX has a limited range of rotation.
> ...



odd thing about that is recycle time wasn't really gimped on the 430's - smaller flash, less power = faster recycle. I found my 430's faster at recycle than either my 580's or my 600's.

Unfortunately, brand new upon release these will not be my beater flashes! But, I may snag a few more 430's because the price of those will surely drop.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 17, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Wow, no one stating the blindingly obvious feature that canon should put in all their flashes ----come on now, how hard is it to put a freaking battery meter in there? It would be so awesome to be setting up my lighting and turn the units on and know....ohhh it's got 3/4 power left, no need to change batteries, or wow, 1/4 left, better put some new ones in. The 600 really really should have that!!! so I won't hold my breath on a 400 series flash having such a simple feature --------- it really boggles my mind why it's not there. Maybe I'm the only one that's bugged my this????



I'm not bugged by it. I have a very efficient battery management regime and I just don't have battery issues. I always have recharged Eneloops in the flash whenever it leaves home and I have a full second set also freshly topped up in the bag. I very rarely have to change batteries in the field, very rarely. 

Maybe others fire their flashes much more than me but I don't even use battery packs, though if I did run into charge issues regularly that is what I'd want more than a level indicator.


----------



## distant.star (Jul 17, 2014)

.
Yep, battery charge indicator would be useful.

I suspect if Canon were truthful, they'd tell you that recycle time is the de facto battery indicator.

An overheat warning might also be helpful to avoid damaging the flash. 







Chuck Alaimo said:


> Wow, no one stating the blindingly obvious feature that canon should put in all their flashes ----come on now, how hard is it to put a freaking battery meter in there? It would be so awesome to be setting up my lighting and turn the units on and know....ohhh it's got 3/4 power left, no need to change batteries, or wow, 1/4 left, better put some new ones in. The 600 really really should have that!!! so I won't hold my breath on a 400 series flash having such a simple feature --------- it really boggles my mind why it's not there. Maybe I'm the only one that's bugged my this????


----------



## Marsu42 (Jul 17, 2014)

distant.star said:


> Yep, battery charge indicator would be useful. I suspect if Canon were truthful, they'd tell you that recycle time is the de facto battery indicator.



I have absolutely no clue why there is no battery meter - probably a technical problem because the power flux is so dynamic it's hard to get a good reading on the charge (and because all batteries have different discharge curves)? 

Btw Canon *does* say the recycle time is the battery meter, as far as I remember it's there in the manual in the cfn description to show the slave "charge ready" status either by the red blinky or just the small light on the back.



distant.star said:


> An overheat warning might also be helpful to avoid damaging the flash.



Um, the flash get disabled if it's running too hot, doesn't it?


----------



## Joe M (Jul 17, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Joe M said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be something if this new flash was being rolled out as one that could be controlled by a built-in radio wireless system in the new 7D? Yes, I know I'm reaching and just kidding. At least, I hope that's not what it'll be cause I'd be too jealous.
> ...


Very true. It was just a whimsical thought though as personally I can't see much reason to update the 400 series other than to give it RT and then wouldn't the price point be too close to the 600? Like all rumours, guess we'll just have to wait till it hits the shelves.


----------



## Joe M (Jul 17, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Wow, no one stating the blindingly obvious feature that canon should put in all their flashes ----come on now, how hard is it to put a freaking battery meter in there? It would be so awesome to be setting up my lighting and turn the units on and know....ohhh it's got 3/4 power left, no need to change batteries, or wow, 1/4 left, better put some new ones in. The 600 really really should have that!!! so I won't hold my breath on a 400 series flash having such a simple feature --------- it really boggles my mind why it's not there. Maybe I'm the only one that's bugged my this????



Yes please, good point Chuck! I'll take that too. To take the point further though, I don't understand why Canon doesn't give us a dedicated battery for the flash. It could then be chipped like the body batteries and you'd always know how much power is left and what shape the battery is in. I can understand the old "it's versatile cause you can buy AA batteries anywhere" but that is so 1960s thinking. Everything has dedicated batteries so why not our flashes? And if one big battery could be made "Eneloop style", it'd probably pump out more power than a quad of AAs. 
Enough with fumbling with a pile of AA batteries I say.


----------



## deleteme (Jul 17, 2014)

A fat Li-on battery like the Ving 850 would make sense.


----------



## distant.star (Jul 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Um, the flash get disabled if it's running too hot, doesn't it?



Um, from a Canon flash user guide:

"Do not fire the modeling flash more than 10 consecutive times. If you fire the modeling flash 10 consecutive times, allow the Speedlite to rest for at least 10 min. to avoid overheating and *damaging the flash head.*" Emphasis mine.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 17, 2014)

distant.star said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Um, the flash get disabled if it's running too hot, doesn't it?
> ...



The 600 can do around 40 full power pops with a pack in around 2 mins before the screen glows red, the warning sign to slow down, then it locks. 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=600ex%20rt%20overheating&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDMQtwIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQOKCZ3FZBwo&ei=8-rHU4KrHca58gGtyoCwBg&usg=AFQjCNHkjXqtHEfuCIfi0WZtDfQsn4lOkA&bvm=bv.71198958,d.b2U


----------



## deleteme (Jul 17, 2014)

I live in the desert and it gets hot outside (surprise). I was shooting with fill recently in the sun and the flash shut down from overheating due in large part (IMO) to the elevated ambient temp.
Fortunately I do not have to do this much.


----------



## Hannes (Jul 17, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Joe M said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be something if this new flash was being rolled out as one that could be controlled by a built-in radio wireless system in the new 7D? Yes, I know I'm reaching and just kidding. At least, I hope that's not what it'll be cause I'd be too jealous.
> ...



They already do for the 6D so why not?


----------



## unfocused (Jul 17, 2014)

Hannes said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Joe M said:
> ...



Good point. Maybe there is hope for a 7D RT then.


----------



## Gary W. (Jul 17, 2014)

Normalnorm said:


> A fat Li-on battery like the Ving 850 would make sense.



Hey all,

That is one thing I like about the Godox flashes. (V850/V860) For the price, the battery life, and full amount of features (except the old style lock wheel :-( ), I think this should be the next build model for flashes. Options? Manual vs TTL and built in radio or not. I think Canon could sell a decent amount of manual only flashes with HSS and rear curtain sync. 

Gary W.


----------



## Skirball (Jul 17, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > sagittariansrock said:
> ...



Which is why I think it won't be a 4X0RT. Canon will keep the 600exRT as the entry fee if you want to play the integrated RT eTTL game.

I'm going to put my money on a thoroughly uninteresting new flash. Color me a skeptic.


----------



## Skirball (Jul 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> distant.star said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, battery charge indicator would be useful. I suspect if Canon were truthful, they'd tell you that recycle time is the de facto battery indicator.
> ...



A simply voltmeter test wouldn't work with anything other than alkaline. Eneloops would start showing half full and stay there right up until it died. Of course, Canon already "fixed" this problem by stating that you should only use alkaline in their flashes. So they could just go that route.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jul 17, 2014)

distant.star said:


> "Do not fire the modeling flash more than 10 consecutive times. If you fire the modeling flash 10 consecutive times, allow the Speedlite to rest for at least 10 min. to avoid overheating and *damaging the flash head.*" Emphasis mine.



I dunno, if I keep pressing the modelling flash it simply stops working until the flash has cooled down. Am I using a special version of the 600rt or have I been just lucky so far. I never read manuals  and only touch them to come up with occasional smug comments :->



Skirball said:


> Which is why I think it won't be a 4X0RT. Canon will keep the 600exRT as the entry fee if you want to play the integrated RT eTTL game. I'm going to put my money on a thoroughly uninteresting new flash. Color me a skeptic.



Or it's going to be the 600rt replacement 666ex-rt with the new ettl-3 protocol:
* remote zoom
* second curtain remote
* battery indicator
* fec with wheel in m flash mode w/o button press (fw bug)
* one button group masks (feature on the yn st-e3 clone)


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 17, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Wow, no one stating the blindingly obvious feature that canon should put in all their flashes ----come on now, how hard is it to put a freaking battery meter in there? It would be so awesome to be setting up my lighting and turn the units on and know....ohhh it's got 3/4 power left, no need to change batteries, or wow, 1/4 left, better put some new ones in. The 600 really really should have that!!! so I won't hold my breath on a 400 series flash having such a simple feature --------- it really boggles my mind why it's not there. Maybe I'm the only one that's bugged my this????


I agree entirely. Current technology allows measuring battery with great precision, and there is no hindrance to put it in a flash that costs hundreds of dollars. 

A particular type of battery would trigger the low battery warning when remaining 10 shots (maximum power), and other type of battery would trigger the alert when 30 shots left. But at least we would have a reliable estimate to repeatedly use the same batteries. 

A thermometer would also be good, since it does not arbitrarily turn off the flash (Nikon SB900).


----------



## brad-man (Jul 17, 2014)

"A *brief mention* that we could see a new Speedlite announced with the EOS 7D replacement in September"

This is a CR2? It's probably a white 430 for the fashion concious


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jul 18, 2014)

Joe M said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, no one stating the blindingly obvious feature that canon should put in all their flashes ----come on now, how hard is it to put a freaking battery meter in there? It would be so awesome to be setting up my lighting and turn the units on and know....ohhh it's got 3/4 power left, no need to change batteries, or wow, 1/4 left, better put some new ones in. The 600 really really should have that!!! so I won't hold my breath on a 400 series flash having such a simple feature --------- it really boggles my mind why it's not there. Maybe I'm the only one that's bugged my this????
> ...



lets not forget that if you have a grip, it comes with the AA adaptor so you can run your camera on that...ya gotta figure if one 5d3 battery can power the body for a few thousand shots, one of those in a speedlight could go for a week!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> lets not forget that if you have a grip, it comes with the AA adaptor so you can run your camera on that...ya gotta figure if one 5d3 battery can power the body for a few thousand shots, one of those in a speedlight could go for a week!



A week of very long recycle times. You can forget an LP-E6 battery pack that works optimally in a bunch of cameras and flashes. Li-ion isn't optimal for fast-draw applications like refilling a capicitor. Canon would ideally make an NiMH battery for that, and the form factor would need to be different to avoid confusion.


----------



## Sabaki (Jul 18, 2014)

Could it be the MT-24EX RT mkii with wi-fi control between body and head?

Then you can throw in battery meter, diffused LED lighting and continuous lighting?


----------



## sagittariansrock (Jul 18, 2014)

I agree with Sabaki. It might be a RT-equipped Macro.
Canon has not released a mid-level RT flash for this long and reduced the price of the 600s considerably, and people seem to be buying 600s happily enough. I don't see why they would want to release a 4X0-RT now and potentially decrease their profit margins.
Or else, it might be a small and inexpensive rt commander with fill flash capability only (all the functions of ST-E3-RT with flash capability of 270ex and AF assist- priced around $ 300 (wishful thinking...)


----------



## ScottyP (Jul 19, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> I agree with Sabaki. It might be a RT-equipped Macro.
> Canon has not released a mid-level RT flash for this long and reduced the price of the 600s considerably, and people seem to be buying 600s happily enough. I don't see why they would want to release a 4X0-RT now and potentially decrease their profit margins.
> Or else, it might be a small and inexpensive rt commander with fill flash capability only (all the functions of ST-E3-RT with flash capability of 270ex and AF assist- priced around $ 300 (wishful thinking...)



Why not? Did the non-RT 430 not exist alongside the non-RT 580? One had more power and sold for more. It didn't hurt the 580.

Over time most devices acquire more features, while often holding steady on price and sometimes actually coming down in price, adjusted for inflation. Look at early flat screen TV's. Look at early "digital" calculators. Very expensive with few features compared to modern cheaper better ones. Today the cheapest model of Ford/Chevy/etc have features that were only available, if available at all, on their higher end vehicles years ago.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Jul 19, 2014)

ScottyP said:


> Why not? Did the non-RT 430 not exist alongside the non-RT 580? One had more power and sold for more. It didn't hurt the 580.



It's about what you can sell. Till the 600, Canon historically had high and mid level flashes co-existing, as did Nikon. Since they brought out the 600, people have been expecting a smaller RT-enabled unit to come out any day (for more than two years now).
At this point, people have sort of accepted that they have to get the 600 if they want RT- and it is such a desirable feature people are ponying up the cash. So providing a mid level RT-enabled unit now makes less sense to me.
At the end of the day, I keep emphasizing on "to me" because I don't have all the market research data Canon does. So we will find out, I guess.


----------



## ScottyP (Jul 19, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > Why not? Did the non-RT 430 not exist alongside the non-RT 580? One had more power and sold for more. It didn't hurt the 580.
> ...



We are all just guessing of course, but I think the reason Canon has not been in a hurry to put RT into the mid-tier models yet is because Nikon has not yet fielded an RT flash, so for the moment Canon has the field to itself. If this rumor of an upcoming 430/440 with RT proves not true right now, then I think it is a matter of time. At the latest, i think,once Nikon puts out an RT flash or two, we will probably see Canon put that feature in the 2nd tier units.

Come to think of it, that is a good question. When WILL Nikon answer Canon with an RT flash? And why has it not already done so? There are already 3rd party RT flashes out, and there are a lot more coming up soon. If the 3rd parties can do it surely Nikon has the ability to do so.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jul 20, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > Why not? Did the non-RT 430 not exist alongside the non-RT 580? One had more power and sold for more. It didn't hurt the 580.
> ...



I get what your saying, but, isn't it at all conceivable that part of canons strategy is to put the RT out there, give one option for a time, sell as many as you can to get people into the system. 

But also, why would they put any effort into rebranding a mid-level flash if it didn't have RT? Just leave it as is. If a new one is coming though, i highly doubt it won't be RT. It will differentiate in the same way 430's differentiated from 580's (less power, slave only - the usual gimping). I don't think it will hurt sales for 600's, same way 430's didn't kill 580's. IMO - It just makes no sense to put any energy into designing a new flash to sit below the 600 without RT - unless they have a RT hotshoe adaptor on the way too...


----------



## sagittariansrock (Jul 20, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > ScottyP said:
> ...



Sure, it is possible. Maybe the 600 sales have finally plateau-d off, and Canon is finding new ways to bring in revenue. 
However, I don't think there'd be an RT adapter.


----------



## Random Orbits (Jul 20, 2014)

ScottyP said:


> We are all just guessing of course, but I think the reason Canon has not been in a hurry to put RT into the mid-tier models yet is because Nikon has not yet fielded an RT flash, so for the moment Canon has the field to itself. If this rumor of an upcoming 430/440 with RT proves not true right now, then I think it is a matter of time. At the latest, i think,once Nikon puts out an RT flash or two, we will probably see Canon put that feature in the 2nd tier units.
> 
> Come to think of it, that is a good question. When WILL Nikon answer Canon with an RT flash? And why has it not already done so? There are already 3rd party RT flashes out, and there are a lot more coming up soon. If the 3rd parties can do it surely Nikon has the ability to do so.



Or Canon just misjudged how well the 600 would sell, and they didn't start working on the RT version of the 430 until after the 600 was already was in the field. At 2 years and counting, it's feeling more like a product cycle than a tiered release.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 20, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> But also, why would they put any effort into rebranding a mid-level flash if it didn't have RT? Just leave it as...



Why the MR-14EX II then? Very minor changes, no RT master capability.



Chuck Alaimo said:


> ...unless they have a RT hotshoe adaptor on the way too...



I'd certainly love to integrate monolights into the RT system. Not sure we'll ever see one, though. If we do, it'll be after a 4x0EX-RT and it will be priced such that the RT receiver plus a cheap 3rd party flash will cost more than the 4x0-RT model.


----------

