# Where is the EOS 5D Mark IV? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 30, 2015)

```
<p>We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/01/eos-5d-mark-iii-replacement-talk-cr2/" target="_blank">reported a few weeks ago</a> that the “5D” line would be split into the 3 cameras, the two 5DS cameras as well as the 5D Mark IV.</p>
<p>Today we were told that the 5D Mark IV is indeed coming in 2015 and will focus on being a lowlight event and sports type of camera with good enough image quality for pretty much anything else you throw at it. The camera could also be the next Canon DSLR to get 4K video recording, along with new video features. We haven’t heard anything in regards to an EOS-1D C replacement, which lends some credence to the rumors that the next 5D Mark XX will take over where the 1D C will leave off, though we don’t want to say that’s a for sure thing right now.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d4.html" target="_blank">Northlight</a> reports that the camera is currently scheduled for an announcement in August and will see a modest increase in megapixels.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## PureClassA (Jan 30, 2015)

4k in a Mk3 successor would only make sense, I just wish it wasn't delayed til August (if this is accurate). $4000 price drop on the 1DC suggests this may well come true. 4k at $3500 in a 5 series and 4k in a 1DC at $8000 makes a lot more sense. (a la Sony a7s vs Sony FS7)


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## docsmith (Jan 30, 2015)

They are saying all the words I want to hear. That could be a worthy successor to the 5DIII. Now, they just have to make it so. 

24-28 MP
Cleaner low ISO noise
Whatever benefit they can get out of higher ISO
8 fps
etc....


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## unfocused (Jan 30, 2015)

I certainly hope it has a touch screen and wi-fi. It's long past time for these features to be integrated into upper end cameras.


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## preppyak (Jan 30, 2015)

unfocused said:


> I certainly hope it has a touch screen and wi-fi. It's long past time for these features to be integrated into upper end cameras.


Wi-Fi might be toucher because of how they build in the waterproofing.

Touchscreen is an altogether different problem. The 5D is still a prosumer and pro market camera...who may not want touchscreen to work through menus, etc.


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## blackbox (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm sure they will increase the ISO, but Dynamic Range is still lacking with this camera

1DX replacement??


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## justsomedude (Jan 30, 2015)

blackbox said:


> I'm sure they will increase the ISO, but Dynamic Range is still lacking with this camera



I would assume this is the main reason for the delay in the 5D Mark IV. Canon must be well aware by now that they can't just drop a 5D3 with a few tweaks and a bump in ISO. They got raked over the coals by Nikon and their loyal fans with the weak DR in the 5D3.

Fingers crossed they are listening, and using the extra time to deliver a solid punch in August. 

Come on, 5D4, I have high hopes for you!


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## kevl (Jan 30, 2015)

Better dynamic range, better low light noise performance, and focus points that I can see against a dark scene and I will simply say "Take my money please!"


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## candyman (Jan 30, 2015)

And don't forget.... EC in M-mode when using Auto ISO


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## DonS (Jan 30, 2015)

Why keep the same name? These are really all different cameras. Why not the mythical 3D and a 4D and the 5D Mk IV? Why all variations of the 5D? I know they will all use the same body, but they are really different cameras.


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## pedro (Jan 30, 2015)

docsmith said:


> They are saying all the words I want to hear. That could be a worthy successor to the 5DIII. Now, they just have to make it so.
> 
> 24-28 MP
> Cleaner low ISO noise
> ...



A most modest increase in MP would be* 24 MP* for me.


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## agierke (Jan 30, 2015)

> Touchscreen is an altogether different problem. The 5D is still a prosumer and pro market camera...who may not want touchscreen to work through menus, etc.



count me in this camp. not once have i ever had trouble accessing a canon menu quick enough and thought to myself "i wish this was touchscreen so it would be easier"

on the contrary...my fat fingers had issues with the touch screen on an iphone 4s. i can only imagine how infuriating trying to deal with a touch screen that is much smaller would be.

for me...no thank you.


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## photo212 (Jan 30, 2015)

Great news for those chasing megapixels today concerning the 5DS, but really disappointing that those wanting modest improvements in the current line will need to wait until August 2015 for the 5D Mk IV. And even wait longer for the prices to drop a tad.

So, do I go another year with my 5D MkII? Or do I grab a Mk III when prices come down even more? Or wait?

"modest increase in megapixels"? 20+ megapixels is enough for anything I need. I want the increase to be in the quality of pixels themselves, not the quantity. If Canon says the Mk IV would be best as a 18MP, I'd take it, too. when chasing megapixels numbers, I consider the upgrade to my computer to process them as well. Better pixels, not more pixels for me.


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## JonAustin (Jan 30, 2015)

preppyak said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I certainly hope it has a touch screen and wi-fi. It's long past time for these features to be integrated into upper end cameras.
> ...



I don't see any technical conflicts between WiFi and waterproofing.

I agree about touchscreens, though; I'd never use it. But I'm not opposed to touchscreen capability being added, so long as it can be turned off and doesn't degrade the visual quality of the LCD.

It would be great if the 5DIV would include the 1.3x and 1.6x cropping modes of the 5DS variants.


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## docsmith (Jan 30, 2015)

photo212 said:


> Great news for those chasing megapixels today concerning the 5DS, but really disappointing that those wanting modest improvements in the current line will need to wait until August 2015 for the 5D Mk IV. And even wait longer for the prices to drop a tad.
> 
> So, do I go another year with my 5D MkII? Or do I grab a Mk III when prices come down even more? Or wait?



All depends on your needs and state of your current gear. I can tell you, I am not sure I will be upgrading from the 5DIII. Great camera.


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## andrewflo (Jan 30, 2015)

JonAustin said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



I believe Canon has stated something about a full magnesium alloy body making WiFi difficult. Which is why the top of the 6D is plastic. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I use an EOS M and the touch screen is really really nice quality. Like more responsive/accurate than an iPhone. I'm not saying that I would prefer a touch screen to physical controls by any means, but if it was literally just a freebie (that could be turned off) and physical control took zero hit, I see no disadvantage to it 

Swiping and zooming through photos is quite pleasing with the touch screen on the EOS M. And quickly tapping to position the focus box is fantastic. Though that only helps in live view.

For video (especially if there is DPAF), a touch screen might have major value. Might be more 6D territory than 5D though.


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## dolina (Jan 30, 2015)

If a 5D Mark IV mentioned here with no Optical Low Pass Filter would be announced next Friday would be PERFECT to me.

Although I do wonder how CFA will useful considering printing and display technologies may not take advantage of it for the next 5 years or so?


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## Lee Jay (Jan 30, 2015)

August?

Grrrr....

Trying to figure out what to do with replacements for my 20D and 5D.

I'm now leaning toward replacing the 20D with the 7DII for now, but this puts my lens switcheroo a bit out of order.

However, a 24MP 5DIV with great low-light performance, the 7DII AF system (or better), dual-pixel and 4k could well lead me to part with more cash than I was planning on.


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## mrsfotografie (Jan 30, 2015)

docsmith said:


> photo212 said:
> 
> 
> > Great news for those chasing megapixels today concerning the 5DS, but really disappointing that those wanting modest improvements in the current line will need to wait until August 2015 for the 5D Mk IV. And even wait longer for the prices to drop a tad.
> ...



I expect an evolutionary camera, with improvements across the board. I'll also probably wait a year or so for prices to come down like I did for the MkIII. Mind I expect less of a step in usability from the MkII to MkIV than it was going from the II to III. More DR would be nice, we'll see what Canon comes with (I don't really require much better low light performance than the MkIII is giving me).


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## dash2k8 (Jan 30, 2015)

The 4K video is highly intriguing, but if it turns out to be true, please don't botch it up with another blurry, mushy video codec. The 5D3 already does not compare to the a7s and the GH4 in terms of video performance. If it weren't for the great Canon lenses available versus the Sony and Panasonic offerings, the 5D3 would likely disappear on the video scene. Hope the 5D4 gets it right!


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## dolina (Jan 30, 2015)

If the announcement is August expect shipment of bodies by November.


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## JonAustin (Jan 30, 2015)

andrewflo said:


> I believe Canon has stated something about a full magnesium alloy body making WiFi difficult. Which is why the top of the 6D is plastic. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
> 
> I use an EOS M and the touch screen is really really nice quality. Like more responsive/accurate than an iPhone. I'm not saying that I would prefer a touch screen to physical controls by any means, but if it was literally just a freebie (that could be turned off) and physical control took zero hit, I see no disadvantage to it
> 
> ...



You may be correct about Canon's statement, re: full mag alloy body and difficult WiFi implementation; I haven't seen that. Antenna placement is the key, and it may require one or more undesirable design compromises.

I don't shoot video, so I'm not part of the market for any touchscreen-related benefits to this application. And I don't use my phone for photography or image review, so the ability to swipe & zoom images on a DSLR's rear LCD isn't a feature I long for. But I can see the attraction / value to some.


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## mclaren777 (Jan 30, 2015)

Announced in August? Bummer!

That means I wouldn't get to use it for the 2015 wedding season.


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## that1guyy (Jan 30, 2015)

So they're copying Sony's A7 line. canon is *******.


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## jebrady03 (Jan 30, 2015)

that1guyy said:


> So they're copying Sony's A7 line. canon is *******.



SO many people joke around and poke fun at people who say xyz company is "*******" if they do or don't do _____. I always thought they were being dramatic. Apparently not. You ACTUALLY used the word *******! LMFAO!


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## V8Beast (Jan 30, 2015)

docsmith said:


> They are saying all the words I want to hear. That could be a worthy successor to the 5DIII. Now, they just have to make it so.
> 
> 24-28 MP
> Cleaner low ISO noise
> ...



Evolutionary advancements in specs like these would seem likely, in which case I'd pass on the 5D4 and keep shooting happily with my 5D3  If I really need the tax writeoff I'd be more inclined to look into the 5Ds as a studio body to complement the 5D3.


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## gmon750 (Jan 31, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> 4k in a Mk3 successor would only make sense, I just wish it wasn't delayed til August (if this is accurate). $4000 price drop on the 1DC suggests this may well come true. 4k at $3500 in a 5 series and 4k in a 1DC at $8000 makes a lot more sense. (a la Sony a7s vs Sony FS7)



Delayed? The 5D was normally refreshed every four years. Even if it's delayed until August, it's still almost year earlier.


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## Lee Jay (Jan 31, 2015)

gmon750 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > 4k in a Mk3 successor would only make sense, I just wish it wasn't delayed til August (if this is accurate). $4000 price drop on the 1DC suggests this may well come true. 4k at $3500 in a 5 series and 4k in a 1DC at $8000 makes a lot more sense. (a la Sony a7s vs Sony FS7)
> ...



Announcements:

5D: August 22, 2005
5DII: September 17, 2008 (3 years 1 month)
5DIII: March 2, 2012 (3 years 6 months)
5DIV: August, 2015 (3 years 5 months)?


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## tyger11 (Jan 31, 2015)

gmon750 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > 4k in a Mk3 successor would only make sense, I just wish it wasn't delayed til August (if this is accurate). $4000 price drop on the 1DC suggests this may well come true. 4k at $3500 in a 5 series and 4k in a 1DC at $8000 makes a lot more sense. (a la Sony a7s vs Sony FS7)
> ...



The four-year update schedule was when the market was very different. For Canon to ignore the competition for 4 year spans would be incredibly neglectful of them. Not that they're going to increase their update frequency, but they _should_. Four years is an eternity nowadays, especially if the Mk IV is intended to compete with other cams in the video arena. But we'll see what happens at CP+ and NAB.


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## Orangutan (Jan 31, 2015)

justsomedude said:


> Canon must be well aware by now that they can't just drop a 5D3 with a few tweaks and a bump in ISO. They got *raked over the coals *by Nikon and their loyal fans with the weak DR in the 5D3.



Only if you define "raked over the coals" as being inundated by customers eager to buy at high prices. The 5D3 outsold everything Nikon had up to the much-newer D750 (which appears to be a pretty good product). Yeah, it's time for a refresh on the 5D3, but Canon seems to have a good handle on matching new bodies to eager markets.


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## Lee Jay (Jan 31, 2015)

tyger11 said:


> gmon750 said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Never existed (see above).


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## PureClassA (Jan 31, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> tyger11 said:
> 
> 
> > gmon750 said:
> ...



Yeah I dunno where this 4 year business got started. Never has been. 3 calendar years has been about right for more recent Canon history. And by "delayed" I only meant delayed compared to this impending March release of the high res bodies. We were all looking for a 5D4 but it turned out to be a 5DS. We got 5D3 and 6D in 2013. The 1dX in 2012 I think. That's what next. The 1DX2. And given today's other announcement, that model will replace both the 1DX and the 1DC


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Jan 31, 2015)

Hope the fps goes from 8-10 with a 1.6 crop mode damnn august is a long wait


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## ejenner (Jan 31, 2015)

I don't really need anything more than the 5DIII, but I'm going to start saving in case this has Sony-like DR. Instead of getting a new release 2-3 years after the release, this might just be one I get quickly.

My hopes:

24-28 Mp
4k video
8fps
Sony-like DR at base ISO (no banding etc...)
$3500

That would definitely be enough to get be buying quickly. Even with 22Mp and no 4k I'd jump on it.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 31, 2015)

ejenner said:


> I don't really need anything more than the 5DIII, but I'm going to start saving in case this has Sony-like DR. Instead of getting a new release 2-3 years after the release, this might just be one I get quickly.
> 
> My hopes:
> 
> ...



that would be nice (other than short on reach a bit) and in another 3-4 years merge this with the 50MP and then wow!!


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## jcarapet (Jan 31, 2015)

Thoughts are this

1. For a semi-pro, the 5diii is more than enough camera. I have never had a complaint on image quality when I have blown up images for prints. It's staying in the bag for the next 10 years (hopefully)
2. Don't discount brand loyalty about Canon copying Sony's product line. Lets look at Samsung and their phones. While they have been the innovators and put lots of good phones out, once Apple remotely matched specs they took the market lead, at least last quarter. Canon will be fine for a while matching specs.
3. I am honestly interested in an innovation oriented camera market. While I am not buying, I am intrigued by what is coming out. Sony has been doing amazing work, and i applaud that they are making viable options. Samsung too. While it probably isn't selling great, the NX1 is a game changer in terms of performance specs. I just wish they had a good lens lineup and a name backing to make themselves more compelling.


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## Mitch.Conner (Jan 31, 2015)

I'm looking forward to what the 5d4 has to offer.


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## zim (Jan 31, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> ejenner said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really need anything more than the 5DIII, but I'm going to start saving in case this has Sony-like DR. Instead of getting a new release 2-3 years after the release, this might just be one I get quickly.
> ...



+1 to both
Especially happy with 24 and no 4k if that is what would keep the price to the 5D3's opening price.

The doubt I have and what will be fascinating to find out about is what the 5Ds brings to the table in crop mode though. If in crop mode it gives 8fps and image quality (not size obviously) the same as the 5DIV then that makes it a very attractive proposition. 
ISO 6400 is the kicker though but.... can't wait for someone to test letting it under expose and lift in post to the equal ISO of a 5D3, say at 12800 if it turns out to be the same then the 5Ds becomes an amazing fit, for me that is ;D

Either way exciting times!


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## gsealy (Jan 31, 2015)

It seems as though the 5DIV would be something that I would think about buying at some point (given the 'specs' being discussed above). I really like the versatility and quality of the 5DIII as opposed to a more specialized camera. I use mine to do video and HDMI output to the Atomos as well as shoot still photography. If the 5DIV has 4K capability, then it becomes super attractive as long as I can record externally. So it should be interesting.


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## Omar H (Jan 31, 2015)

I join the ranks of those waiting for the new 5DIV... but only to get the MkIII at a better price!! I want a fully covered camera, not grey market. So we'll see!


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## WeekendWarrior (Jan 31, 2015)

DonS said:


> Why keep the same name? These are really all different cameras. Why not the mythical 3D and a 4D and the 5D Mk IV? Why all variations of the 5D? I know they will all use the same body, but they are really different cameras.



Because having a camera called a "3D" that didn't actually shoot in 3D makes no sense


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## clarksbrother (Jan 31, 2015)

An alternate theory: there was rumor of a March announce date. When the 5DS/5DSr details slipped everyone just assumed March was the launch date. As best as I can tell...there were never any rumors to that effect, just assumptions. It wouldn't be totally surprising to see a 5D Mark IV announced in that time frame. 

Selfishly, I hope that whatever the case is, they release it for sale prior to early October. I've got a 15 day trip to London/South Africa and although my 5D Mark II is a great camera, would far prefer the latest and greatest to take with me on such a trip.


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## jrista (Jan 31, 2015)

ejenner said:


> I don't really need anything more than the 5DIII, but I'm going to start saving in case this has Sony-like DR. Instead of getting a new release 2-3 years after the release, this might just be one I get quickly.
> 
> My hopes:
> 
> ...




If it does 8fps @ 28mp with the iTR AF/meter along with really low noise, I'd buy one. I'd pre-order one, and I never do that. That would make it an AWESOME FF action camera with an extremely good frame rate and tons of resolution that could then easily double as another AWESOME FF landscape camera with extremely good _tttmnbso*_. That would also mean it would compete pretty head on with the 1D X...which is why I don't see the 5D series getting a truly high frame rate AND great t_ttmnbso_ yet... 


_* *TTTMNBSO*: The thing that must not be spoken of _


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## Datfish (Jan 31, 2015)

PHEW....that all means that my 5d3 will still perform until August....that is such a relief!! 
After then.... when it self destructs ...............................I just don't know what I'll do!


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## TAF (Feb 1, 2015)

unfocused said:


> I certainly hope it has a touch screen and wi-fi. It's long past time for these features to be integrated into upper end cameras.



I rather hope it has neither. To make the WiFi work they would likely have to compromise construction, and a touch screen on a camera that rests against ones nose seems undesirable.

I would like to see interchangeable screens (I do a lot of manual focus), much higher ISO (please give me a useable 102K), an SD slot that isn't crippled, and dual pixel auto focus for video.

And no increase in introductory price...


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## jrista (Feb 1, 2015)

dilbert said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...




Apparently you did not read my entire post. ???


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## privatebydesign (Feb 1, 2015)

dilbert said:


> And we all know that Canon doesn't design products that internally could be seen to compete.



Well explain the 5D MkII that killed the $7,000 1Ds MkIII for all but a very few purchasers, or the 70D that must have had a big impact on 7D sales.


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## jrista (Feb 1, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > And we all know that Canon doesn't design products that internally could be seen to compete.
> ...




Well, I don't know what Canon's thinking has been. However if we look at the camera lines since the 1Ds III. Canon merged the split 1D line into a single line with the 1D X. They released a single 5D III that seemed to fill a different, and higher, position and price bracket than the 5D II. They released the 6D. They are now apparently releasing the 5Ds and 5D IV as a split line, again fitting into what appears to be that higher position in Canon's pro-grade lineup.


The 70D came so long after the 7D, with the 7D II not all that far behind. Perhaps Canon simply did not care about the ancient 7D classic at that point?


Perhaps their intention all along was to kill off the 1Ds and replace it with the 5Ds. Companies like Canon always have big, long-term plans.


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## kphoto99 (Feb 1, 2015)

TAF said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I certainly hope it has a touch screen and wi-fi. It's long past time for these features to be integrated into upper end cameras.
> ...



Have you ever used the Rebel with the touch screen? The touch screen does not go active until the Q button is pressed. So unless your nose is able to press it first, you don't have to worry about having the touch screen on the camera.


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## drs (Feb 1, 2015)

Site-note:
Old news... four is considered to be an unlucky number. 
Wiki:"Four is sometimes pronounced shi, which is also the word for death."
I guess the "four" is not a common Japanese number at all. There are not a lot v4 models ;o) 
I'm curious how they will name the successor of the mark3
/end site-note


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## Lee Jay (Feb 1, 2015)

drs said:


> Site-note:
> Old news... four is considered to be an unlucky number.
> Wiki:"Four is sometimes pronounced shi, which is also the word for death."
> I guess the "four" is not a common Japanese number at all. There are not a lot v4 models ;o)
> ...



That explains why there was no 1D Mark IV.

Oh wait...


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## kubelik (Feb 1, 2015)

when I had my 5D Mark II, I remember the wait for the 5D Mark III release seemed interminable ... could not wait to trade up for the Mark III because of shortcomings in frame rate, autofocus, and to a lesser extent, the higher ISO capabilities.

now that I've got the 5D Mark III, I was actually surprised to hear that Canon was about the release a Mark IV. it feels like I only bought my Mark III a year ago, even though apparently I've owned it for 3 years already! guess I've found my "good-enough" camera. will look into trading up to a Mark IV if it really is a stunner, but even then it wouldn't be a sure thing. I think my wish list would be more about the little things that most consumers reading spec lists gloss over, which means it's unlikely we'll see any of these:

ability to actually use max speed on SD card memory slot
1/320 flash sync speed
7D weathersealing
3 second pre-record cache in movie mode
flash trigger in live view
2/3-stop improvement in dynamic range
built-in wifi module
7 FPS high speed shooting


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## jiphoto (Feb 1, 2015)

Anybody seen this article on Petapixel? They're drawing attention to video on the 5Ds and future 5D Mark IV.


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 1, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> drs said:
> 
> 
> > Site-note:
> ...


In Japanese there is another word for 4 (e.g. Ichi, Ni, San, Yon, Go... )


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 1, 2015)

This is what I'd like to see from Canon's upgrades:

*6D Mark-II - Casual/Landscape/Travel (Target price $2,200)*
High Resolution DPAF CMOS sensor
Maximum Resolution: 39.4 Megapixels (7692 x 5124)
Native ISO range: 64-25,600 
Expanded ISO range: 32-102,400
3.5fps (100,000 actuations)
41pt AF (all cross-type)
Centre AF point is high precision dual-cross-type with f/2.8 lenses
Memory Card: SD-U3/U1 compatible
Articulating touch LCD
Wifi 802.11ac
GPS + Compass
2560x1440 @24/25/30p
1920x1080 @24/25/30/50/60p
1280x720 @24/25/30/50/60/100/120p

*5D-IV - Wedding/Events/Sports/Wildlife/HD-Video (Target price $3,500)*
DPAF BSI-CMOS sensor
20.2 Megapixels (5502 x 3668)
Native ISO range: 64-51,200 
Expanded ISO range: 32-204,800
10fps (200,000 actuations)
71pt AF (all cross-type)
15pt active with max aperture of f/8
Dual SD card slots (U3/U1 compatible)
GPS + Compass
2560x1440 @24/25/30/50/60p
1920x1080 @24/25/30/50/60p
1280x720 @24/25/30/50/60/100/120p
5120x2160 @24p (external recorder)
Wifi module included in battery grip

*5Ds - Studio/Portrait (Target price $4,200)*
Tri-layer Sensor (16bit/channel)
64.3 Megasensels (5670 x 3780 x 3 layers) 
3fps
ISO 64-2000 (expanded 32-8000)
Electronic global shutter
Dual SD card slots (U3 compatible)
35pt AF (all cross-type)
Wifi 802.11ac
Built-in Speedlite Transmitter

*1D-C Mark-II - Wedding/Events/Sports/Wildlife/4K-Video (Target price $8,000)*
High Resolution DPAF CMOS sensor
39.4 Megapixels (7692 x 5124)
12fps
16fps (with Mirror Lockup) in 1.3x crop mode (23.31MP)
Native ISO range: 64-51,200 
Expanded ISO range: 32-102,400
71pt AF (all cross-type) 
21pt available with f/8 max aperture
Electronic global shutter
2560x1440 @24/25/30/50/60p
3840x2160 @24/25/30p (50i/60i)
7560x3240 @24p (external recorder)


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 1, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> This is what I'd like to see from Canon's upgrades:
> 
> *6D Mark-II - Casual/Landscape/Travel (Target price $2,200)*
> High Resolution DPAF CMOS sensor
> ...


You have a fertile imagination ...


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## cnardo (Feb 2, 2015)

Can somebody explain what 1.3x and 1.6x crop modes are? Does the camera have a 1.3 and 1.6 extenders built into the camera like some of the higher end L lens have?


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## Lee Jay (Feb 2, 2015)

cnardo said:


> Can somebody explain what 1.3x and 1.6x crop modes are? Does the camera have a 1.3 and 1.6 extenders built into the camera like some of the higher end L lens have?



No, it just crops (records only those pixels in the center of the frame like a crop body).


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## cnardo (Feb 2, 2015)

So it puts the entire image coming thru the lens on a small subset of the FF sensor....thereby give you a telephoto effect like if was a H or APS-C sensor?


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## Lee Jay (Feb 2, 2015)

cnardo said:


> So it puts the entire image coming thru the lens on a small subset of the FF sensor....thereby give you a telephoto effect like if was a H or APS-C sensor?



No, it just crops. It removes the areas around the edges. That's all. Same as APS-H or APS-C but with all the same pixel size. So, no reach advantage, just a file size advantage (and possibly a speed advantage, but we don't know that yet).


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## cnardo (Feb 2, 2015)

Lee Jay.... Thank you ! One final question, when would someone ever want to do this? ???


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## Lee Jay (Feb 2, 2015)

cnardo said:


> Lee Jay.... Thank you ! One final question, when would someone ever want to do this? ???



Lots of times.

When you're shooting small objects in a big blue sky, why record all that blue sky? It wastes space and fills your buffer. Plus, on other cameras that have this feature, they can run at faster frame rates in crop mode because of fewer pixels to process.


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## cnardo (Feb 2, 2015)

Got it... BIF... And probably some other situations... Thanks again !!


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## emko (Feb 2, 2015)

will the 5D have Cfast or will it have the slow SD card slot that no one used?


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## jrista (Feb 2, 2015)

cnardo said:


> Lee Jay.... Thank you ! One final question, when would someone ever want to do this? ???




When you don't need the full frame. When you need a faster frame rate. When you need a deeper buffer. When you want to save space.


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 2, 2015)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I'd like to see from Canon's upgrades:
> ...


“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” - Albert Einstein ;D


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## adhocphotographer (Feb 2, 2015)

Now this appeals to me more than the 'S' series!

Lets get it out asap please canon!


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## pedro (Feb 2, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> This is what I'd like to see from Canon's upgrades:
> ...
> 
> *5D-IV - Wedding/Events/Sports/Wildlife/HD-Video (Target price $3,500)*
> ...



This looks intresting. "Native" ISO 51k, Yes Sir. This would give us some very nice ISO 25k.


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## zim (Feb 2, 2015)

dilbert said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > ajfotofilmagem said:
> ...



Now that was funny ;D


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## PureClassA (Feb 2, 2015)

Shall we go ahead and start the new 63MP rumor thread right now? That's a CR2 right?


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## jrista (Feb 2, 2015)

pedro said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I'd like to see from Canon's upgrades:
> ...




That is a misunderstanding. Any camera can be updated to support "native" ISO's higher than their predecessor's maximums. That actually has nothing to do with IQ, though. It's just a configurable setting, that's all. The sensor would actually have to gather more light to make the prior "highest" setting better. Cameras are already at 60% Q.E. At best, we'll be able to get 40% more, but it is unlikely we'll see much more than 80-90% with consumer-grade sensors. That means we can get reasonably expect 20% more Q.E. over what we have now...quite some time down the road off into the future (Canon was improving Q.E. by 2-3% per generation for a long time there.) 


I could see Canon going to 64% Q.E. tops with the next generation, although I kind of doubt it will be that high...it'll probably stay around 59-60%. If Canon starts strengthening the CFA again, that will reduce EQE, which will affect the total amount of light reaching the photodiode. IQE may reamain the same or higher...but it'll still be working with less light...so in the grand scheme of things, we *could *see WORSE ISO 25600 if the 5D IV got 51200.


Assuming Canon came right out with a 20% improvement over current Q.E. and the 5D IV hit with 80%, we still wouldn't see a factor-of-two reduction in noise at ISO 25600. We would see about a 25% improvement at best...and that is barely going to be noticeable under scrutinization.


Increases in maximum selectable ISO don't really have any bearing on whether that actually means less noise. Increases in Q.E. can mean improvements in noise...however there is both IQE (Internal Q.E.) an EQE (External Q.E.) The measurements we usually see give us IQE, which is just the conversion rate of photons incident on the photodiode. An increase in IQE paired with a reduction in EQE can result in worse overall performance. If we see increases in both EQE and IQE, or an increase in EQE at the same IQE, then we can see real improvements. 


A truly significant increase in EQE could be made by ditching color filters entirely and moving to an MCS design, where we simply split the light via certain diffraction effects, but gather 100% of it. That kind of technology already exists...it would just need to be employed.


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## binky7 (Feb 3, 2015)

One needs a dedicated glossary to keep up with these threads. ???
What do the Q.E. and MCS acronyms stand for?

BTW, TIA & TTYL


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## jrista (Feb 3, 2015)

QE = Quantum Efficiency
MCS = Micro Color Splitting


QE is the rate of conversion of incident photons to electrons in the photodiode. Very few cameras are actually true photon detectors, in that they detect every single photon and release charge as a result. Most have some lower conversion rate, like 41% or 56% or 65%. 


MCS is a technology that was developed by Panasonic. It replaces color filters, which block certain frequencies of light and pass others (therefor reducing the amount of light reaching the photodiodes) with a special kind of color splitter. The color splitter deflects some light to neighboring pixels, and passes the rest. That results in pixels that have W+R and W-R color (white plus red and white minus red). That means 100% of the light is sent to the photodiodes, where color filters will block 60-70% of the light. The Q.E. of each photodiode in an MCS sensor could be the same as that in a Bayer CFA (color filter array) sensor, but the MCS sensor is going to be more sensitive overall.


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## pedro (Feb 3, 2015)

jrista said:


> pedro said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



Thank you, jrista, for taking your time to explain this technical aspect to me. Lacking any technical knowledge in the aforementioned area, board members like you really contribute a lot to the better understanding of folk like me. Let's hope that Canon will start soon to walk that road as outlined in your reply.


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## pedro (Feb 3, 2015)

*@jrista:*

I've been searching about MCS tech, and wow... it's quite a step ahead...!
Panasonic in FEb 2013:
http://www.diginfo.tv/v/13-0021-r-en.php

http://news.panasonic.com/press/news/official.data/data.dir/2013/02/en130204-6/en130204-6.html

As I do not now much about this materia, did Canon mention anything in the past two years? Are they working on it, or is it panasonic tech achievement only?

So, given that Canon might be developing a similar product, how long is the wait for the next *revoluationary* EOS Camera then, which will mention MCS in its sensor specs...? Is there hope for an outing within the next 4 years?

uh, and it was shortly discussed here...now I got a new abreviation to jump at in camera fora ;-)
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12783.0

The most intresting statement is this one here:

*Can this technology be implemented right away?

Yes, says Panasonic. The “micro color splitters” can replace all color filters in current sensors and they support both CCD and CMOS sensors. Furthermore, the new sensors can be manufactured using conventional semiconductor techniques and cheap, inorganic materials.*
http://camyx.com/news/2013/02/panasonic-sensor-doubles-low-light-image-quality/

sample showing improvements
http://cdn.camyx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/panasonic-sensor-double-low-light-image-quality.jpg


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## jrista (Feb 3, 2015)

Glad to help, Pedro. 


Regarding Canon's technology. Canon has been investing in layered sensor technology. In regards to light preservation, layered sensors, if designed properly, certainly have a leg up on bayer sensors. You gather the full constituent of light at each pixel. 


In regards to whether you preserve 100% of it like MCS, I don't know. Canon has invested some R&D in anti-reflective technologies with their layered sensors. They have both nanocoatings on the lower-layer photodiodes (red specifically, maybe green) as well as anti-reflective coatings on the bottom of each photodiode. That tells me that Canon is still losing light in some ways with their layered sensor designs. I don't know how much...I suspect the losses are primarily to heat, and nanocoatings on the photodiodes should certainly help in that area. 


I have not read anything that indicates Canon is developing MCS of their own. I was kind of more hoping Canon might just buy Panasonic's technology...maybe buy their whole sensor patent portfolio.  I don't think that is going to happen any time soon, though. I think Omnivision is on the ball with similar technologies as well. Omnivision is probably one of the biggest dangers to Canon. They have already developed their own form of DPAF, so Canon will not be the sole company to have such technology in the not too distant future. I think more of Omnivision's customers are video based, where DPAF truly shines. There is at least one other company developing similar technology as well. 


Canon has some key innovations in the image sensor arena, but the hounds are just about ready to bite down on Canon's ass and shred.  We'll have to see if Canon brings their lucrative technology to market fast enough or not. Maybe with the 5D IV...I certainly hope.


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