# Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 11, 2017)

```
<p>2017 isn’t shaping up to being a big year for Canon, but there are going to be a fair number of popular announcements this year. Below is what we can confirm is coming in 2017, even if we cannot confirm exactly when things are coming.</p>
<p>We also touch on a few things that won’t be coming this year, in case you’re on the fence about a purchase.</p>
<p><strong>DSLRs</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II</strong>

<em>This is the most anticipated DSLR from Canon this year. We expect to see it in late Q2/early Q3</em></li>
<li><strong>Canon EOS Rebel SL2</strong>

<em>The smallest DSLR in the lineup will get a refresh in 2017. We expect it to be specced pretty close to the EOS Rebel T7i.</em></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Lenses</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS</strong>

<em>This is a highly anticipated lens and we expect it to come around some time in Q3 of 2017.</em></li>
<li><strong>Canon EF-S 35mm f/2.8 M IS STM</strong>

<em>We haven’t confirmed the focal length of this lens yet, but it will be announced on or around April 5, 2017. We’ve also been told that it’ll have a unique feature for an EF-S lens.</em></li>
<li><strong>Canon 135mm</strong>

<em>There is some kind of 135mm lens coming in 2017, we just don’t know an awful lot about it at this time. This one may evolve some and I think it’s likely a Q4 announcement.</em></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Cinema EOS</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Canon Cinema EOS CXXX Camera</strong>

<em>A new Cinema EOS camera below the EOS C300 Mark II is coming in 2017. It will not be called the C100 Mark III. This won’t be ready for NAB next month, so we expect a Q3 or Q4 announcement.</em></li>
<li><strong>Canon Cinema lenses

</strong><em>We expect to see at least one prime cinema lens announced for NAB next month. There may also be an anamorphic lens announced some time in 2017.</em></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>What’s not coming?</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Canon EF 600mm f/4 DO IS</strong>

<em>We were told it was possible this lens would come in late 2017, but we can confirm that it’s not. Perhaps we’ll see it at Photokina in 2018?</em></li>
<li><strong>Canon EOS-1D C Mark II</strong>

<em>It’s not coming this year, and we don’t think it ever will.</em></li>
<li><strong>Canon EOS 5DS & Canon EOS 5DS R</strong>

<em>There will be no new high megapixel camera in 2017.</em></li>
</ul>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Mar 11, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> 2017 isn’t shaping up to being a big year for Canon, but there are going to be a fair number of popular announcements this year. Below is what we can confirm is coming in 2017, even if we cannot confirm exactly when things are coming.</p>
> <p>We also touch on a few things that won’t be coming this year, in case you’re on the fence about a purchase.</p>
> <p><strong>DSLRs</strong></p>
> <ul>
> ...



wonder what the new EFS lens will be
could it be a 35 ? and the new feature nano usm tech with is in a pancake form factor


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## CanonCams (Mar 11, 2017)

Any comment as to if or when the announcement for 6D MK II will be?


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## mdmphoto (Mar 11, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> 2017 isn’t shaping up to being a big year for Canon, ...



Actually, the 6DII is what I've been most anticipating, (from a niche, "affordable" perspective) since a year AFTER I bought the 6D, so this is actually a pretty big year to me. I've always been most comfortable with 2 bodies, and with my 7DII I'm covered for most photo ops I find - and with the 6DII, I'm hoping to be even better covered.....


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## Sabaki (Mar 11, 2017)

I've decided to stop spending money on gear and to start travelling instead. 

But if that 85mm f/1.4 delivers then I may be swayed


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## Don Haines (Mar 11, 2017)

Sabaki said:


> I've decided to stop spending money on gear and to start travelling instead.
> 
> But if that 85mm f/1.4 delivers then I may be swayed



Why can't it be both?

Travel to a distant city and buy the lens


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## eosuser1234 (Mar 11, 2017)

What about the full frame mirrorless?
Is this to come after release of 6Dm2?


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## infared (Mar 11, 2017)

My bank account is mostly very happy... ;D with a little mild nervousness regarding the 135mm announcement...which is later in the year....


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## Pixel (Mar 12, 2017)

Shouldn't there be news on the 70-200 2.8L Mk III and the other big whites that are planned for updates?


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## vscd (Mar 12, 2017)

I rather would like to see more fullframe pancakes like a 28mm f2.8 or a normal sized 50mm f1.4 IS.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 12, 2017)

Pixel said:


> Shouldn't there be news on the 70-200 2.8L Mk III and the other big whites that are planned for updates?



I posted what I know to be true, there are other things going on that I'm working on....


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 12, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> Any comment as to if or when the announcement for 6D MK II will be?



Late Q2/Early Q3


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 12, 2017)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> wonder what the new EFS lens will be
> could it be a 35 ? and the new feature nano usm tech with is in a pancake form factor



No, it's not a 35 and the feature isn't nano USM in a pancake. I want to confirm both before publishing.


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## Ed V (Mar 12, 2017)

I think I read on here that there is a new EF-M prime in the works for 2017. Any news on that?

I pretty much have my needs covered for my 5D3. But I could really use a 32mm lens for the M5. 8)

Ed


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## AUGS (Mar 12, 2017)

Since moving to full frame, I don't have a need for the new EF-S lens, but for what I photograph (landscapes and sometimes astro landscapes) I'd be hoping this new prime is somewhere between 10-15mm and have fantastic optics/image quality. For me, this means low coma - so wishful thinking and expensive in an EF-S lens - but could the "new" feature be BR optics? Could be a great lens if this is the case and would please a lot of astro folk, especially if at the wider focal length, but unsure Canon would go this direction.


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## mclaren777 (Mar 12, 2017)

It sounds like the 85mm IS won't be released until the 2017 wedding season is mostly over.

Bummer!


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## CanonCams (Mar 12, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> CanonCams said:
> 
> 
> > Any comment as to if or when the announcement for 6D MK II will be?
> ...



Fair enough.

I thought that was the release date.


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## Jopa (Mar 12, 2017)

Sounds like a good year. Hope the new 135 will be also IS.


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## unfocused (Mar 12, 2017)

eosuser1234 said:


> What about the full frame mirrorless?
> Is this to come after release of 6Dm2?



Long after.


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## douglaurent (Mar 12, 2017)

If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.

The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years. 

That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 12, 2017)

I read CR for the humour.

Jack


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## sl888 (Mar 12, 2017)

Still patiently waiting for the new TS-E lenses with unique feature....


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## mb66energy (Mar 12, 2017)

Canon EF-S xxmm f/2.8 IS STM :
What about an EF-S tilt shift lens with AF and IS?

AF is easily supported by DPAF in a very convenient manner and available in all new APS-C cameras.
IS is a nice add and the larger mechanics for TS hide the small increase of complexity with an image stabilization group.

Reuse e.g. the 24 EF IS USM lens design for a larger image circle, put the TS mimics beween EF and EF-S mount and you are there.
The last APS-C cameras from canon seem to be close to FF in terms of IQ and the IS feature helps to keep ISO low.


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## jd7 (Mar 12, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Sounds like a good year. Hope the new 135 will be also IS.



Seems pretty good to me too for a "quiet year".


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## Ladislav (Mar 12, 2017)

No 24-70/2.8 L IS again?


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## Crosswind (Mar 12, 2017)

mb66energy said:


> Canon EF-S xxmm f/2.8 IS STM :
> What about an EF-S tilt shift lens with AF and IS?



Is it technically even possible to have AF on a Tilt/Shift lens, or why do they all happen to have no AF on board? Anyways, that surely would be a great thing (though I'm not necessarily in need of something like this).



AUGS said:


> I'd be hoping this new prime is somewhere between 10-15mm and have fantastic optics/image quality. For me, this means low coma - so wishful thinking and expensive in an EF-S lens - but could the "new" feature be BR optics? Could be a great lens if this is the case and would please a lot of astro folk, especially if at the wider focal length, but unsure Canon would go this direction.



+1 That'd be really nice (especially the coma-correction)! But wouldn't it be quite expensive to put BR optics inside a consumer-grade EF-S prime? A lens with BR optics inside might degrade over time as it is something organic - but I don't know if this will actually be the case!

P.S.: The Samyang 10mm f/2.8 for example has pretty low coma which is good for astro. If they can make a lens with such a performance at that price, Canon could too, just with AF and maybe a little bit more expensive (but not by too much). I canceled my order of the Samyang 10mm 2.8 just to hold off until I know more about the new Canon EF-S prime, and then I will decide which one to buy. Want to use it mainly for landscape/astro.


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## vau (Mar 12, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.
> 
> The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years.
> 
> That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?



Right now I couldn't care less about a Canon mirrorless camera. Plenty of great lens around, awesome selection of second hand lenses. I'm not the one who likes messing around with a manual lens worth of 20 bucks on a three grand camera body pretending to be artsy.

EF lenses are awesome, and quite frankly if one is not able to shoot what he or she wants to shoot, then it's clrealy not the camera bodys fault. 

The 6D and the SL1 are probably the loveliest barebone DSLR cameras atm. The most simple FF EF accoupled with the most simple APSC.

I wish they had a different styling, the 90s just called and they want their Canikon design back.


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## Antono Refa (Mar 12, 2017)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> wonder what the new EFS lens will be
> could it be a 35 ? and the new feature nano usm tech with is in a pancake form factor



We know it's wide (= between 15mm and 22mm), has IS, and STM focusing motor.

As Canon already makes an EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM, and I doubt it will make a prime that overlaps with it. All the more so as the EF-M 22mm STM doesn't have IS.

So my money is still on 15mm.


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## Hflm (Mar 12, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.
> 
> The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years.
> 
> That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?


I don't know what you expect. I have an A7rii and wouldn't rely solely on it. The 99ii seems to have its quirks, too, with mostly older screwdrive lenses, subpar 70-200/2.8 (and overprized), conflicting reports on AF, sensitivity which isn't close to the -4ev they are marketing it. If you think an A9 is a replacement for everything one needs to wait first what exactly this camera will be and how it performs (again conflicting reports on resolution etc.). OSPDAF has limitations compared to dedicated PDAF (which are not easy to overcome, especially in dim light and with lenses starting strongly OOF, or tracking, due to not acting on the OOF field but in focus field, which prevents phase information as soon as the light rays are within the COC). I find Canon DPAF to be superior on my 5d4. The new Sony camera will be in the 6000+ Euro range, so not a camera for the masses but only a selected few. Sony flash support is something I really curse from time to time (specifically this stupid flash mount which results in tiny plastic flash foots which won't hold tight but leave room to flash wiggle. Every time I turn the head I am afraid to tear the flash off). Your last paragraph is just nonsense. You can use an 5d4 like a mirrorless with DPAF, I do that regularly. DPAF is a great innovation, you can focus with your 200mm from complete OOF down to -4ev on the touch of your finger. My A7rii is hunting like crazy when trying this (and wors so when stopping down to f4 or further). If you can't get along with an 1dxii or 5div you should switch your profession.


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## ExodistPhotography (Mar 12, 2017)

2 new camera bodies and 3 new lenses is enough for most folks as long as their pretty amazing in their on right. 

I get countless msgs from viewers on youtube asking about a SL2 replacement all the time. It is a very popular little camera it seems. Ever Pro and non-Pro shooter out there is looking forward to the 6D2. Pros would like to have it if nothing else for a 2nd camera body and non-Pros love having a quality FF camera without breaking the bank.
135mm f/2 I hope gets IS. It needs IS at this point and still retain f/2 aperture.
85mm is seriously in need for an update, including both L and non-L versions. I personally hope both get updated.
The new EFS Prime. IDK about this yet.. Need more info.

That said, I really wished would could see a new L and non-L 50mm lens with IS. Even if they both got bumped down a half stop to allow for the IS system that would still be great IMHO..


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## Orangutan (Mar 12, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell.


How do you mean? Are you saying none of the proposed products interest YOU? If so, that's fair, but other people are entitled to their own opinions.




> The only technological innovation would be


"Innovation" is a matter of opinion: "mirrorless" (i.e., CDAF) has existed for over two decades, so there's no innovation there. We're just waiting for CDAF to evolve to the point that it meets the same speed/accuracy standard as PDAF.



> That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life.


Then time's a-wasting! Quit making excuses based on your gear and get out there and make images!



> just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?


It's rare that a professional photographer can do exactly what they love to do and make a comfortable living. The vast majority of pros do what customers will pay for so they can pay the bills and save for retirement. Why do you expect this to be different for an equipment manufacturer?


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## Bernard (Mar 12, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell.
> ...



It sounds like Doug is a complainer. No point encouraging complainers, they will only drag you down. They have nothing better to do.


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## Orangutan (Mar 12, 2017)

Bernard said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...


Maybe, but sometimes it sparks a little thought.


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## JBSF (Mar 12, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.
> 
> The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years.
> 
> That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?



If you can't get a great photo with Canon's existing products, maybe you should move on from photography.


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## TommyLee (Mar 12, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> I read CR for the humour.
> 
> Jack



I come here for tech help... usually
but but like to see what folks are talking about

and see some ... banter...

this is the most useful and interesting forum ...to me.

Tom


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## matthias345 (Mar 12, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> 2017 isn’t shaping up to being a big year for Canon, but there are going to be a fair number of popular announcements this year. Below is what we can confirm is coming in 2017, even if we cannot confirm exactly when things are coming.</p>
> <p>We also touch on a few things that won’t be coming this year, in case you’re on the fence about a purchase.</p>
> <p><strong>DSLRs</strong></p>
> <ul>
> ...



Hello, thanks for the roadmap! 
But whats about the 200-600 5.6?


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 12, 2017)

TommyLee said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > I read CR for the humour.
> ...



Yes me too. It isn't just the humour that Doug and others provide. 

Jack


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## LonelyBoy (Mar 12, 2017)

I think too much is being expected of the "unique feature" for the EF-S lens.

TS/E is right out - most crop shooters won't pay for, nor know how to use, such a thing.

I would have expected internal zoom, only of course it's a prime. Do any EF-S lenses have internal focus? Regardless, that's probably not much of a big deal on a landscape lens. Weather-sealing would only matter on what, the 7D, 7D2, and 80D? Too narrow to brag about.

That being the case, my money is on one or both of "bulbous front element" and "included/ built-in hood". No EF-S lens comes with the hood, right? If it's as wide as some are hoping, it could need one or both of these.


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## Crosswind (Mar 12, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> That being the case, my money is on one or both of "bulbous front element" and "included/ built-in hood". No EF-S lens comes with the hood, right? If it's as wide as some are hoping, it could need one or both of these.



Good point. _If_ it has such a bulbous front element with a built-in hood (which many UWAs feature), then I'm guessing it is at or below 14mm. But I'm not so sure if we can call it a "unique" feature having a built-in hood, because that's pretty common among other UWAs.


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## IglooEater (Mar 12, 2017)

Bernard said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...



I think he means that it will be hated by some, adored by some, and condemned as evil by yet others. Mainly, he means it will be a huge hit, especially financially 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_to_Hell


;D


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## HaroldC3 (Mar 12, 2017)

Well there's a gut punch to EOS M owners.


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## Talys (Mar 12, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one.



Different strokes for different folks. For me, it's less about innovation and more about iteration and refinement. Optically, 10 years ago, I was where I needed to be with glass and sensor already. I can shoot anything I need to shoot with primes and a t2i (the oldest body I have that's still in use) and be happy with it, but I keep buying new stuff, not because I'm a Canon fanboy or because I have money to burn, but because I'm willing to pay for incrementally better IQ, more flexibility, and more technological features -- even if they're not, strictly speaking, "innovative".

For me, 6Dmk2 will probably make me very happy. All I really want for Christmas is for Canon to sell me a FF body with all of the technological features of my 80D. Generally speaking, I'm very happy when Canon makes incrementally better products that seem very mundane and uninspiring, but surprise me with their utility, like the 24-70 f4. When I saw the headline, it was definitely, meh. Why would I want that? But after being convinced to try one? I bought it instantly, and it's been my favorite lens since.


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## LonelyBoy (Mar 13, 2017)

Crosswind said:


> Good point. _If_ it has such a bulbous front element with a built-in hood (which many UWAs feature), then I'm guessing it is at or below 14mm. But I'm not so sure if we can call it a "unique" feature having a built-in hood, because that's pretty common among other UWAs.



Note the rumor: "a unique feature *for an EF-S lens*". Other Canon UWAs have it... in EF format. Other companies' crop lenses have that... but they can't be called "EF-S". I'm sure Canon would call that "a unique feature for an EF-S lens". Which is why I think everyone going crazy with "unique" possibilities is going to be disappointed.


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## Crosswind (Mar 13, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Note the rumor: "a unique feature *for an EF-S lens*". Other Canon UWAs have it... in EF format.



Yeah I have thought about that possibility, but I didn't want to read too much into it. Do you have an idea what else that could be? 
_(edit: I cannot imagine that a built-in lens hood can be called "unique". That's kind of a standard for an UWA and just a very basic part of the lens and it sounds ridiculous lol)_

No I'm not going crazy about this "feature", but I clearly do have interest in that lens because it might be a valid contender against the Samyang 10mm f/2.8, even if it would be some mm above that FL. 

Right now, there's only a very small selection of lenses available in the UWA range, with an aperture viable for astrophotography and at a price range between ~300-500 bucks. Most of the (U)WA lenses from Canon which are built for crop cameras are zooms. I don't say that they are bad (the EF-M 11-22 is exceptional in terms of image quality), but I'm definitely missing something that is a bit faster, preferably with AF and IS.


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## LonelyBoy (Mar 13, 2017)

Crosswind said:


> Yeah I have thought about that possibility, but I didn't want to read too much into it. Do you have an idea what else that could be?
> 
> No I'm not going crazy about this "feature", but I clearly do have interest in that lens because it might be a valid contender against the Samyang 10mm f/2.8, even if it would be some mm above that FL.
> 
> Right now, there's only a very small selection of lenses available in the UWA range, with an aperture viable for astrophotography and at a price range between ~300-500 bucks. Most of the (U)WA lenses from Canon which are built for crop cameras are zooms. I don't say that they are bad (the EF-M 11-22 is exceptional in terms of image quality), but I'm definitely missing something that is a bit faster, preferably with AF and IS.



Only what I already suggested, and that I think it's going to be something that leaves most here scratching their heads and asking "that's it?" when they see the press release. Nothing fancy, nothing (crazy) expensive, and nothing totally new. Just something that Canon hasn't done on any first-party crop lenses yet.


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## scyrene (Mar 13, 2017)

Hflm said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.
> ...



Don't waste your breath. Doug is a longterm crank, and Canon could give away a free unicorn with every camera and he'd still complain it had only one horn...


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## Crosswind (Mar 13, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Only what I already suggested, and that I think it's going to be something that leaves most here scratching their heads and asking "that's it?" when they see the press release. Nothing fancy, nothing (crazy) expensive, and nothing totally new. Just something that Canon hasn't done on any first-party crop lenses yet.



Doesn't have to be any fancy lens. The mentioned Samyang is even less interesting when compared. But I do hope that the Canon is on par or even better than the Samyang in terms of image quality... That'd be enough for me.


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## scyrene (Mar 13, 2017)

mclaren777 said:


> It sounds like the 85mm IS won't be released until the 2017 wedding season is mostly over.
> 
> Bummer!



There's always next year!


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## scyrene (Mar 13, 2017)

Fwiw, my choice of 'unique feature to EF-S' would be the inclusion of a macro light like that recent EF-M lens. A wide angle macro (or near macro) lens with built in light would be pretty nifty.


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## Crosswind (Mar 13, 2017)

scyrene said:


> Fwiw, my choice of 'unique feature to EF-S' would be the inclusion of a macro light like that recent EF-M lens. A wide angle macro (or near macro) lens with built in light would be pretty nifty.



But wouldn't it be quite difficult for such a small, built-in LED to correctly illuminate the subject if the lens is an UWA? (challenging FoV for macro lights)


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## Luds34 (Mar 13, 2017)

Like many others, I just eagerly await the 6D2 announcement. I'm hopeful it comes with the improved AF system a lot of us are looking for and at a price that is reasonable enough for me to move on. Until then... just hanging out with my fingers crossed.


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## slclick (Mar 13, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.
> 
> The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years.
> 
> That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?



So, should every year be both the year of the lens (and body and printer and cine and ....)? 

We all know what brand does that and just how well it works for them.


----------



## HarryFilm (Mar 13, 2017)

*Re: Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap -- Look for New Medium Format in 2018*

I get rumor mail all the time from friends in Europe 
and this is what I received in that last week from 
friends in the Netherlands who forwarded this 
originally German-sourced spec sheet to me 
about a new medium format Canon camera 
with an absolutely H-U-G-E Canon-sourced 
sensor. I've been told sometime 2018 or 2019 
this will be announced as it has been worked
on for some time now by Canon. I haven't 
changed the text below. It is exactly as 
I received it. The text gives an unsubstantiated 
indication that the camera has been seen working
out in the wild.

This is an .u.n.s.u.b.s.t.a.n.t.i.a.t.e.d. rumor 
from a European source so take it with more 
than a few grains of salt but I can't totally
discount it either because I've been hearing
too many other rumors that are fairly 
similar spec-wise to what is written below.
I do must say we live in very interesting times!

***********************

CANON SPORTS ACTION 1Dx mk.II Successor DSLR.

Canon 1Dx-body Style with 6x4.5-type Medium Format Camera:

* 56mm by 42mm CMOS sensor Bayer Pattern

* 8192 by 6036 pixels (50 megapixels) at 6.82 microns per photosite

* Global Shutter Sensor with a now-specified 14.5 EV at ISO 100 Dynamic range vs 13.5 EV for 1Dx Mk2
It was explained to us that video shooters could expect a true dynamic range of 14 stops at ISO 800 
which is better than even the newly released C700 cinema camera! This looks well for low-light shooting 
at high ISO values as the EV drop-off curve is noted to be flatter than the 1Dx Mk2. 

* Shutter speed at full frame is now an <<ASTOUNDING>> 25 fps
which is 3 fps higher than specified in our earlier 2016 report!

* 4:4:4 colour sampling at 16 bits per channel RAW and RGB Ultra Wide Gamut 

* ISO range is 100 to 51200 with extensions down to 50 and up to 409600

* JPEG-2000 file format wavelet based compression 4:4:4 colour sampling 
at up to 16 bits per channel for wide gamut imaging. Normal JPEG is 
still available!

* Dual pixel autofocus

* Articulated and rugged OLED Touchscreen with horizontal swivel out to left
and full 360 degree vertical rotate with live-view at 1920 by 1200 pixels.
Entire liveview screen area is touch-enabled for fast autofocusing over 
entire sensor area!

* Five User defined and scrollable 25 item touchscreen menus
for creating multiple custom camera option and function layouts!

* onboard GPS and 6-axis MEMS sensor for XYZ rotation and XYZ movement 
metadata recording on all still images and periodically within video files

* Two DIGIC processors each with an embedded ultra wide gamut wavelet 
image compression core and a wide gamut MPEG4 video compression core

* One USB3 Type-C connector, HDMI connector and One RJ-45 1gb/sec Ethernet connector

* Two CFast slots but NO SD card slots!

* Combined Battery and Internal hard drive grip accessory allowing 
<<TWO>> 63.5mm (2.5 inch?) SATA SSD drives for high capacity still 
photo and video file storage. We have confirmed that testing was completed
with two inserted 3-terabyte Samsung SSD removeable storage drives!

* 802.11ac Wifi with multiple logon accounts to autosend and <<EXCHANGE>> photos too!
Two Canon MF cameras can obtain photos from each other via peer-to-peer Wifi
and download from external sources to local C-Fast cards and internal SSD drives!

* Confirmation that video recording is supported at DCI 4k (4096x2160),
UHDTV (3840x2160) and HDTV (1920x1080) downsampled from the full sensor 
area at 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps, 50 fps, 60 fps, 100 fps and 120 fps. 
HDMI output is confirmed clean of any overlays at 4k DCI, 3840 and 1080 resolutions!

* We have confirmed that video recording has eschewed Motion-JPEG 
Intraframe compression and gone to Motion-Wavelet intraframe 
compression at up to 12 bits per channel 4:4:4 colour sampling. 
It is also confirmed to us that MPEG4 interframe compression 
at 10 bits per channel 4:2:2 colour sampling is now enabled!

* Canon Clog/Clog2/Clog3 and five User-definable Log file entries are confirmed present.

* 3.5mm audio input jack is present

* We have now confirmed that a more expensive 120 megapixels 
at 8-to-10 fps version will be released at the same time!

* It is confirmed that a 50mm and 85mm lens in addition to a 600 mm telephoto were tested
in the wild with four new zoom lenses to be introduced at the same time for the new 
medium format mount sizes. It is confirmed that the lenses will contain on-lens LED 
displays for easy viewing of statistical information even in low-light situations!

* It is confirmed that a mid-2018 introduction date is specified

* Price for Body-only was given as a range from 12000 Euros to as much as 
16000 Euros at introduction! This is <<VERY INEXPENSIVE>> compared with 
Hasselblad or Phase One but with a 25 fps burst shooting speed at 50 megapixels!

* It has been confirmed that lenses will not be cheap and from 1.5x to 3x 
the price of the premium EF lenses at equivalent focal lengths and at 
least twice as heavy! You will need to start working out and beef up 
your tripods!

These are exciting times but be prepared to pay very much extra for your lenses!
We think this new Canon MF camera is very much better than Hasselblad and Phase One 
for 50 megapixels and would put a severe dent in those storied names if the 
120 megapixel version has the same features at a 10 fps shooting speed!


***********************

I don't have any more information than what 
I have outlined here, but I have heard other 
rumors from various sources that indicate to
me that Canon is absolutely working on a 
high-speed, huge-sensor sports/wildlife
shooter camera (50 megapixel MF) and a very 
high megapixel count (120+ megapixel MF)
5Ds/r landscape/portrait shooter replacement.

I should also note that while this text does not
say it specifically, my source in the Netherlands
assures me that this is a .M.I.R.R.O.R.L.E.S.S. 
large-sensor, high-shutter speed 25 fps at 
50 megapixel medium format camera that 
looks and feels like a Canon 1Dx2 
sports body-like camera!

You heard it here first!


----------



## hmatthes (Mar 13, 2017)

Ladislav said:


> No 24-70/2.8 L IS again?


I use this lens every day and never wanted IS. The 24-70 2.8L II is IMHO the perfect lens.


----------



## hendrik-sg (Mar 13, 2017)

@ harryfilm:

i wonder if your source about a canon MF is a turkish citician living in Netherlands. He might have smoked quite a fair amount of weird stuff to little bit cool down. After some additional beers he might have forgotten his profund mathemathical knowledge:

25fps @50MP's might need 6 Digig processors of actual tech, if a 5div gets 7fps @30 MP's. assuming some progress in compter technics (or that all current bodoies are cippled) 4 processors might be enough. On top of it, Dual CFast might be to slow for this data output, it corresponds to about 150fps 4k footage, with 16bit depth eveen more (my maths knowledge got drauned in beer as well, so i am lazy to figuere this out in detail)

;D


----------



## Meatcurry (Mar 13, 2017)

*Re: Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap -- Look for New Medium Format in 2018*



HarryFilm said:


> I get rumor mail all the time from friends in Europe
> and this is what I received in that last week from
> friends in the Netherlands who forwarded this
> originally German-sourced spec sheet to me
> ...


WOW!

Not only U.N.S.U.B.S.T.A.N.T.I.A.T.E.D but pure F.A.N.T.A.S.Y. as well!


----------



## douglaurent (Mar 13, 2017)

scyrene said:


> Hflm said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...



If you think Canon products are already perfect, or don't know or need all the great camera features that are out there now, you probably are wrong on a website that is all about the progress of future releases.

It's also likely that aside from little practical knowledge about today's camera market, you have a very small budget for new products, and a small income out of professional photography and filmmaking. Too bad that those voices support Canon's path of slow innovation, which will hurt Canon users all together in the long run.


----------



## Orangutan (Mar 13, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> If you think Canon products are already perfect, or don't know or need all the *great camera features *that are out there now



Which specific features? Which one camera has all of them?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 13, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Don't waste your breath. Doug is a longterm crank, and Canon could give away a free unicorn with every camera and he'd still complain it had only one horn...
> ...



Tell us, douglaurent...is it one of your 50 like-minded Canon-hating colleagues, one of the millions of people you claim your viewpoint represents, or a random stranger who pisses in your Wheaties every day?


----------



## Ladislav (Mar 13, 2017)

hmatthes said:


> Ladislav said:
> 
> 
> > No 24-70/2.8 L IS again?
> ...



Not for me. I use IS more often than 2.8 aperture BUT when I need that aperture, I want to have it available on the same lens. Canon doesn't have anything in their offering to satisfy my needs. 

When I have space for only one lens, I take 24-70 and I expect to be able to take stills in low light without tripod and reasonable ISO => IS as well as candit portraits of people while freezing the action => 2.8.


----------



## slclick (Mar 13, 2017)

hmatthes said:


> Ladislav said:
> 
> 
> > No 24-70/2.8 L IS again?
> ...



I have never thought once that what this lens needed is stabilization. Maybe a diet but not IS.


----------



## motofotog (Mar 13, 2017)

No zoom lens beyond 400mm


----------



## Antono Refa (Mar 13, 2017)

I hoped for a new 50mm f/1.4 or 24-70mm f/2.8L IS.

Maybe I should start saving for a Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG OS HSM Art.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 13, 2017)

A few thoughts on this thread in general:


Curious to see what this EF-S newness is: 

I think an EF-S 10mm or 15mm f/2.8 STM pancake is a logical guess, but that's not particularly 'new' feature-set-wise. 


I wonder if the integral Macro ring-lighting of the EF-M 28mm f/3.5 Macro IS STM lens might ever come to EF-S. Seems like a no-brainer for the (seemingly growing) food + social media crowd.


Someone made a comment about and auofocusing tilt-shift for EF-S, which seems fairly improbable -- but it got me thinking. _Any chance Canon gets in creative mechanical effects lenses for beginners?_ I don't mean something exotic or technically demanding like an anamorphic lens or T/S lens, but something really simple for the Rebel camp to use and understand, and -- critically -- it cannot be easily replicated with software, instagram filters, etc. Something like a LensBaby Velvet or they resurrect softfocus or offer a lens with drop-in bokeh templates, perhaps? 

Glad to see new primes added this year, but how a sharp / modern / fast-focusing 50mm prime isn't one of them continues to amaze me.


Zero surprise on no other FF rigs this year. Slight surprise on the SL2 happening, but I was unaware of strong ex-US sales (which you good folks pointed out to me on another thread).


To shoot Canon glass longer than 400mm (disregarding crop), you need to embrace the limitations of a teleconverter or some $9k+ needs to leave your wallet. Help me understand that. A cheaper long zoom option with first-party AF remains an unmet need to Canon folks, IMHO. Don't get me wrong, 'cheaper' might still be $3k, but it's still a gap.


FF mirrorless has to happen eventually. Might be a fixed-lens offering to start, but it surely is coming before too long.

- A


----------



## slclick (Mar 13, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> A few thoughts on this thread in general:
> 
> 
> Curious to see what this EF-S newness is:
> ...



I'd be in line for the fixed lens (see X100F) from Canon. FIRST in line.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 13, 2017)

slclick said:


> I'd be in line for the fixed lens (see X100F) from Canon. FIRST in line.



Canon would have a hard time courting the premiums they want from the trust-funders and mad enthusiasts with just an APS-C fixed lens rig. I'd love a tiny X100 personally, but I think Canon would be wiser to offer some comically overpriced FF offering like the Leica Q or RX1R II.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Mar 13, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be in line for the fixed lens (see X100F) from Canon. FIRST in line.
> ...



that really has a limited appeal globally.


----------



## Talys (Mar 13, 2017)

slclick said:


> hmatthes said:
> 
> 
> > Ladislav said:
> ...



I actually bought 24-70 f4 over a 2.8 because I preferred image stabilization to larger aperture.

Mostly, my use for this lens is stills of products in a studio where there as much lighting as I want, so my reason for the purchase was to get a zoom with prime-level sharpness, more than anything. Bokeh is unimportant for product shots, as background, 99.9% of the time, is white, black, grey, or chroma (and almost always removed anyways), plus I want more DoF to keep all of the product in focus.

95% of the time, it's multiple cameras all on tripods, but sometimes, for additional shots, I take handheld pictures at different angles, and for this, I find the IS is helpful.

I've just hung onto my old 17-55 for 2.8 (and I get 3-stop IS out of it, too). But there's no question that the 24-70 -- either 2.8 or f/4 -- is a much sharper lens, so I would have bought the 2.8 IS were it an option.


----------



## slclick (Mar 13, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



And yet Fuji can't keep up with the X100F initial release, globally.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 13, 2017)

slclick said:


> And yet Fuji can't keep up with the X100F initial release, globally.



Which could mean high demand...or limited supply.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 13, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > And yet Fuji can't keep up with the X100F initial release, globally.
> ...



+1

Fuji (and various photography sites) has been putting out a _lot_ out of PR about lack of supply as some measure of the X-T2, X-Pro2, and X100T selling well, but I have yet to see the resulting positive delta to their sales.

Don't get me wrong -- I love what they are doing and I want them to succeed. I'm just saying I haven't seen numbers to back up all the buzz (...yet). 

- A


----------



## slclick (Mar 13, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > And yet Fuji can't keep up with the X100F initial release, globally.
> ...



True. But people are loving it, those who do have it, regardless if they have owned a previous iteration. I'm interested but it's pricey. The mere thought of Canon making one would tell me, it would be cheaper than a Fuji, a big uglier but with better QC and service. Also no heavy handed softness at MFD.

Now, I'm not the type who thinks Canon should make something just because I desire it. I'm a bit more grounded. But I'd still like one.


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 13, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> FF mirrorless has to happen eventually.
> 
> - A



No, it doesn't. 

Canon do not and have never seen themselves as bespoke niche market camera manufacturers, they have always gone after low price high volume. The only people that see a 'desperate need' for a FF mirrorless are forum followers. Same with the ever resurfacing medium format dreamers. Canon saw the industry moving to video, they came out with their approach to video, the C line. 

I just don't see them seeing the return potential in FF mirrorless or medium format stills in the near to mid term, if ever.


----------



## Dylan777 (Mar 13, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



Words can't describe when X100F in my hands. My fantasy would be x100f body design with either 35mm or MF sensor. Life is too short to wait for specific company to have a type of camera we(individual) want, especially the products already here.

Snap shot with my cellphone:


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 13, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> I just don't see them seeing the return potential in FF mirrorless or medium format stills in the near to mid term, if ever.



Sure, it's niche to enthusiasts today, but down the road it's the future of nearly every camera. Do you really think Canon will be pumping out SLRs as their principal imaging tech in 10, 15, 20 years?

The return potential for Canon is quite simple: _make the same cameras they sell today for less production cost. _Mirrorless lets them do that -- someday it could replace the FF SLR portfolio -- perhaps not the 1DX line, but certainly all the others.

But you can't just wait (who knows) 10 years and then obsolete the mirror box and pentaprism in FF rigs when you are ready to flip a switch and cut over -- it stands to reason that Canon would slowly roll out a mirrorless platform to be sold alongside similarly spec'd FF SLRs. Over time, that new platform's weaknesses vs. SLR (battery, lag, etc.) would be minimized and its strengths (peaking / MF lens use, EVF customization, amplifying dark rooms, adapting 3rd party glass, etc.) would be played to the hilt to get folks interested. 

- A


----------



## Dylan777 (Mar 13, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > FF mirrorless has to happen eventually.
> ...



Scott,
I'm not sure if you recalled about 3-4yrs ago, similar comments from Canon BIG head about mirrorless. We now have very capable m5/6 on market.


----------



## mag (Mar 13, 2017)

(I know it's an offtopic in here but still...)
Anything regarding their IS binoculars? I've been waiting for a refresh of the 10 x 42 L IS WP but there's simply no hint of anything at all.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Mar 13, 2017)

mag said:


> (I know it's an offtopic in here but still...)
> Anything regarding their IS binoculars? I've been waiting for a refresh of the 10 x 42 L IS WP but there's simply no hint of anything at all.


I'm sorry, but binoculars do not usually have any rumors, and we only find out when they are officially released.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 13, 2017)

RickSpringfield said:


> "*Canon EOS 5DS & Canon EOS 5DS R There will be no new high megapixel camera in 2017*"
> 
> Boooo to that! Was really hoping for a 5DSR with all 5D Mark IV upgrades.
> 
> (here's hoping the OP is misinformed!)



The OP... who happens to be the moderator of this website and the rumor monger with the best track record on these here internets? _That_ OP?

You can hope all you want, but (a) CR guy's track record, (b) Canon's past FF body update timelines, and (c) the 5DS rigs remarkably still sitting at 95% of their original asking price some two years since launch all imply the same thing -- 5DS/R updates are not coming anytime soon.

- A


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 13, 2017)

mag said:


> (I know it's an offtopic in here but still...)
> Anything regarding their IS binoculars? I've been waiting for a refresh of the 10 x 42 L IS WP but there's simply no hint of anything at all.



Welcome to CR.

I've never seen a rumor for binoculars, but Canon usually updates a product when:

1. Sales fall because a different manufacturer is gaining market share.

2. Technology allows for a significant gain in performance, enough to generate sales of a more expensive version. Replacement models almost always jump in price because of the cost of R&D, Tooling, Advertising, stocking of warehouses worldwide, and training / spare parts for all the repair stations. Those items require hard cash.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Mar 13, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Pixel said:
> 
> 
> > Shouldn't there be news on the 70-200 2.8L Mk III and the other big whites that are planned for updates?
> ...


Ive been told its unlikely this year as the present lens is still selling remarkably well. Reliable source.


----------



## scyrene (Mar 13, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> The return potential for Canon is quite simple: _make the same cameras they sell today for less production cost. _Mirrorless lets them do that



Are we sure about that? Do we know an EVF is cheaper than the mirror assembly etc? I've seen no evidence either way, and would be glad if you (or anyone else!) had some.


----------



## slclick (Mar 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't see them seeing the return potential in FF mirrorless or medium format stills in the near to mid term, if ever.
> ...



If Live View is simply a mirrorless mode, isn't the EVF for FF the conundrum? I know there's more (battery, startup time, lag...well, that's EVF) But as the better hybrid VF's have shown us, the tech is nearly there. I'm not sayig I'm in the ML NOW camp but just asking those with more gear smarts than me what is the possible holdup that could be keeping Canon from making this ML FF rig we keep discussing. I have a hard time thinking it's market....I think they want to get it right. So we wait.


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 14, 2017)

scyrene said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > The return potential for Canon is quite simple: _make the same cameras they sell today for less production cost. _Mirrorless lets them do that
> ...



Good question. No idea what the component costs are, I am admittedly a neophyte on ways and means here.

Just wading into this, if I understand the internals, costs would be based upon:
Someone please correct me if I've got this wrong or if I'm missing something nontrivial.


SLR = the camera body + all shared internals + mirror assembly + pentaprism + OVF + sub-mirror for AF + AF sensor + _likely_ more body material (depending on a full EF vs. skinny mirrorless mount, which is TBD) 


ML = the camera body + all shared internals + EVF

And I'm presuming all the 'shared internals' that drive the EVF are common to those that drive LiveView, i.e. the ML rig doesn't need anything exotic internally to process / pipe content to the EVF.

But that's an apples to apples build on an apples to apples assembly line, which won't happen at first. SLRs will enjoy comically disproportionate economies of scale at Canon that ML would take a decade to generate.

And these are just _cost_ drivers -- price is another animal. If Canon wants to reach for bonkers premiums with ML or inflate the body price to cover the R&D for mirrorless only lenses, that's another conversation.

But I'm in no uncertain terms rambling here. Curious to hear the thoughts of the EEs and consumer electronics folks on this.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Mar 14, 2017)

slclick said:


> If Live View is simply a mirrorless mode, isn't the EVF for FF the conundrum? I know there's more (battery, startup time, lag...well, that's EVF) But as the better hybrid VF's have shown us, the tech is nearly there. I'm not sayig I'm in the ML NOW camp but just asking those with more gear smarts than me what is the possible holdup that could be keeping Canon from making this ML FF rig we keep discussing. I have a hard time thinking it's market....I think they want to get it right. So we wait.



Technically, I see zero conundrum or holdups involved as I don't think a hybrid VF is a must for the market (it's cool but the OVF is still not TTL, right?). Canon now knows from the M1 --> M5/M6 mirrorless experience + all of it's great tech / LiveView experience to offer a rig as compelling as a 5D4 or the upcoming 6D2 _right now _ with the obvious caveats about battery life, lag, etc. 

The question is _why would they withhold a FF mirrorless rig from the market?_ Just riffing here:

[list type=decimal]
[*]*Why the rush?* They don't see sufficient mirrorless demand / threat of current customers to leave to commit the resources needed just yet,


[*]*The really big decision has them on the fence*: Perhaps they are waffling on a not-technically-difficult decision that has huge ramifications/risk and they are waiting out the market to reduce their uncertainty (e.g. to go with a full EF mount vs. a skinny mirrorless mount and what the latter would mean for other development needs),


[*]*Mirrorless is overrated / if it ain't broke, don't fix it*: They believe SLRs will always offer more value than a mirrorless rig, and as such, caving to the market looks sexy but ultimately doesn't serve the business in the longer term


[*]*It's not high on their list*: There are more lucrative things they could invest their money in right now: acquire a competitor, develop new tech that becomes the backbone for future platforms (i.e. Foveon, IBIS, etc.), start a new line of products for something that is under-served (no idea: paparazzi drones, ultra-low-cost medical imaging, robot photobooths, etc.) 
[/list]

Your guess is as good as mine. I think Canon FF mirrorless is a hammerlock certainty -- it's just a question of when and how aggressively they will prioritize it over other new product lines.

- A


----------



## neonlight (Mar 14, 2017)

IMHO FF ML is bound to happen. First, no shutter mechanisms to wear out. Second, would make movie easier on standard (as opposed to "Cinema") bodies. EVF is just a matter of time to get the performance and costs down. I haven't worked on OLED technology but anything organic sounds to me to be degradable. I suspect Canon are wrong to pursue OLED EVF and we need a LED backlit LCD. 

Meanwhile those of us wanting a cheaper 600mm (zoom) are ******* to wait ... again


----------



## Crosswind (Mar 14, 2017)

neonlight said:


> I haven't worked on OLED technology but anything organic sounds to me to be degradable. I suspect Canon are wrong to pursue OLED EVF and we need a LED backlit LCD.



The same I'm always thinking of Canon's BR lens elements, which are also organic (if I'm not wrong). 
I don't know, when or if they are degradable to a major degree over some years. 

Now you got me thinking about that OLED EVF in my camera :-\

I've googled and have seen a website where someone was reporting that his OLED display was basically unusable after 5 years, but that was from a mp3 player back in 2010 or earlier. I don't know if you can apply that to a modern OLED EVF from 2016/17. An EVF should be kind of "sealed"? He said it's basically the oxygen (and moisture) to which the OLEDs are susceptible. See here (german website): http://www.tomshardware.de/AMOLED-display-abgenutzt,news-244326.html

Are my worries regarding _BR optics_ and _OLEDs_ justified?


----------



## slclick (Mar 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > If Live View is simply a mirrorless mode, isn't the EVF for FF the conundrum? I know there's more (battery, startup time, lag...well, that's EVF) But as the better hybrid VF's have shown us, the tech is nearly there. I'm not sayig I'm in the ML NOW camp but just asking those with more gear smarts than me what is the possible holdup that could be keeping Canon from making this ML FF rig we keep discussing. I have a hard time thinking it's market....I think they want to get it right. So we wait.
> ...



They actually did just buy into Medical Imaging in a very big way, from what I've heard from consultants in that field that work with Fuji, Canon and McKesson, it's a huge deal in the industry. They're expecting marketshare to shift to Canon's side.


----------



## midluk (Mar 14, 2017)

With all this FF ML talk/wishes going on, I think it would be a good first move to add support for the detachable EVFs to the 6D2. That way they could offer all the advantages (and disadvantages) of ML cameras (except for size, weight and the speculated price benefit) without a big change to the camera and without sacrificing the advantages of SLRs (if you just use the OVF).


----------



## jeffa4444 (Mar 14, 2017)

scyrene said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > The return potential for Canon is quite simple: _make the same cameras they sell today for less production cost. _Mirrorless lets them do that
> ...



The only point of going mirrorless is if they adopt the 18mm flange depth the M cameras have but to utilise existing EF lenses you need an adaptor or you need to redesign over 60 lenses which aint gonna happen (not when their still releasing new EF lenses). Sony had to design new lenses and still doesn't have a complete series for the A7 range etc. 
Unless Canon has some new break-out technology and / or drops EF-S lenses a full frame mirrorless with an adaptor is defeating the object of mirrorless.


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## Luds34 (Mar 14, 2017)

neonlight said:


> IMHO FF ML is bound to happen. First, no shutter mechanisms to wear out. Second, would make movie easier on standard (as opposed to "Cinema") bodies. EVF is just a matter of time to get the performance and costs down. I haven't worked on OLED technology but anything organic sounds to me to be degradable. I suspect Canon are wrong to pursue OLED EVF and we need a LED backlit LCD.
> 
> Meanwhile those of us wanting a cheaper 600mm (zoom) are ******* to wait ... again



I don't disagree that mirrorless is bound to happen, or at least be an option as I also don't see the DSLR going away anytime soon. Keep in mind that (as far as I know) all mirrorless cameras currently have shutters. They just remain open until the picture is taken. The exception is if one shoots with the "electronic shutter", but due to slow readout time of the sensor, this is only really an option for static subjects. Yes, EVFs will get better. That has been the mantra for the past 5 years. I still think they have a long way to go to fully be usable in all situations. I still feel one of their weaknesses is trying to use them outside in bright sunlight. Often I'm wearing sunglasses and the EVF just isn't easy to see. And once in a great while, sunlight can reflect and hit the eye sensor and the EVF goes blank. Yes there are a number of work arounnds for each of these (turning up brightness, forcing EVF on) but these are never problems with the OVF. It just works. One of the amazing things about an OVF, besides zero lag, and truly seeing colors and the scene for what it is... is how amazing the camera perfectly adjusts the brightness of the OVF with ambient light.  No issues shooting in bright sunlight.


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## mb66energy (Mar 14, 2017)

Organic compound means a compound made of elements usually found in plants and animals but rearranging these elements in a different manner lets them be part of organic chemistry ("carbon and it's compounds"). Synthetic compounds like polyethylene, polypropylene, teflon etc. are very stable under a wide variety of conditions. More complex compounds may suffer from instability but may also be very stable.

If the BR element uses some gel made of mineral oil it is maybe stable for 100 years without measurable degradation, OLEDs maybe suffer from heat (+ the named influences by oxygen and water) but there is strong progress: 10 years ago a 11 inch SONY OLED TV (very special thing) had a price tag of several 1000 $/€ today you can buy a 50 inch OLED display from LG with as a standard item. But as always: I let others be early adopters and beta testers for banana products (ripening in the hands of customers).



Crosswind said:


> neonlight said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't worked on OLED technology but anything organic sounds to me to be degradable. I suspect Canon are wrong to pursue OLED EVF and we need a LED backlit LCD.
> ...


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## midluk (Mar 14, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> One of the amazing things about an OVF [...] is how amazing the camera perfectly adjusts the brightness of the OVF with ambient light.  No issues shooting in bright sunlight.


I also noticed that and always wonder how Canon manages to do that. Must be magicians. 8)

And you forgot to mention usage under flickering light as disadvantage of EVFs. I had a look through the EVF of the M5 at Photokina and there was a flickering lamp nearby (flickering was not visible by naked eye). The flicker became extremely visible in the EVF and I immediately knew why I prefer OVFs.


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## benkam (Mar 14, 2017)

I recognize the pros and cons of both types of viewfinders and while I've started to yearn for an EVF, I still appreciate the advantages of an OVF, so maybe Canon could come up with a happy compromise.

This would mean added complexity and the attendant higher cost but if Canon can execute it well and price it reasonably, a well implemented hybrid VF would distinguish their products from the competition. That'd be instead of being either perceived to be lagging behind the mirrorless crowd or abandoning their traditional OVF strengths.

As Canon are known to be researching a hybrid OVF/EVF (with that reported patent application late last year), I think they're going that way with their DSLRs. Who knows when, or if, they can do that but either a supposed 1D C Mark II or the 5DS/R Mark II could be good place to start with a hybrid OVF/EVF.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 14, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



the main point from canon's perspective of going mirrorless would be to reduce complexity and make it easier for automated assembly and alignment of the parts of the camera. there's simply less alignment and precision required in a mirrorless camera, and to have an EVF for those that like the EVF view of the world versus OVF.

18mm flange is not necessary and probably not happening. the sensors have to be completely redesigned to support a narrow flange.

the camera bodies can be made as small as the ergonomic rules determine, so the size isn't a problem.

the lenses, only a moderate amount of canon's 60-90 lenses would show a benefit to being on a mirrorless, and all it causes is mount uncertainty.

Sony's marketshare tanked after they did that move, I doubt canon would repeat their mistake.

Sony has not made the move to mirrorless with any great success - this is pretty much a myth on the Internet that Sony is kicking ass and taking names because of their shift to mirrorless. before mirrorless, especially FE, Sony enjoyed around a 18% or more marketshare and was closing in on Nikon.

Now, they are half of Nikon, even a slipping Nikon, and around 1/4th or less of Canon. thier last numbers had them sitting at a 12% marketshare.


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## romanr74 (Mar 14, 2017)

slclick said:


> hmatthes said:
> 
> 
> > Ladislav said:
> ...



The 24-70 2.8L II certainly doesn't need a diet...


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## slclick (Mar 14, 2017)

romanr74 said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > hmatthes said:
> ...



Yeah, if I had time I'd share a list of threads here where people are asking for heavier glass, I'll get back to you when I have time. Look, I know it wouldn't have the optics it does (I love mine) without all that heft, just like how I love my pickle jar 50 Art.


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 14, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...


What your suggesting is simply remove the mirror and alignment can all be automated really? Have you ever assembled a camera? Sure assemblies can be automated but final alignment would need to be verified and checked that's why cameras have adjustments within them that are locked-off once those checks are made, everything has a tolerance and that has to be taken into consideration particularly the setting of the CMOS sensor in relation to the mount for alignment & back-focus. 

The same is true for optics just look at any teardown video. 

Canon EF flange depth is 44mm if they retain that they are locked to certain parameters for given focal lengths and for zooms to cover the 24x36mm sensor, so in other words what they already have albeit with glass type improvements and coating improvements going forwards. What it will not do is shrink the camera greatly so whilst removing the mirror box would simplify construction the actual throat area will be governed by the image circle and the flange depth and to make an ergonomically pleasing camera it will need to be scaled accordingly so we would not see greatly reduced cameras from a size point of view. 

Some are quick to dismiss optical viewfinders but EVF finders are far from perfect even given all the recent improvements so be careful what you wish for the option of both is far better.


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## midluk (Mar 14, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > the main point from canon's perspective of going mirrorless would be to reduce complexity and make it easier for automated assembly and alignment of the parts of the camera. there's simply less alignment and precision required in a mirrorless camera, and to have an EVF for those that like the EVF view of the world versus OVF.
> ...


In a DSLR you have to adjust the sensor position relative to the mount, the focus screen relative to the sensor and the AF sensor relative the the image sensor. With a mirrorless you just have to adjust the first one. And even there only sensor tilt should have a big influence on image quality (by tilting the plane of focus). The tolerances for the exact sensor position (including flange distance) are likely higher on mirrorless compared to DSLR.


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## romanr74 (Mar 14, 2017)

slclick said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



Mk I was a tank. Mk II is perfect size and weight.


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## goldenhusky (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap -- Look for New Medium Format in 2018*



HarryFilm said:


> I get rumor mail all the time from friends in Europe
> and this is what I received in that last week from
> friends in the Netherlands who forwarded this
> originally German-sourced spec sheet to me
> ...


Don't want to quote the whole thing so cut that short. This sounded like dreaming about the absolute best thing in life and suddenly hearing spouse or partner yelling at you and waking up to the reality. ;D 

Here is my take Canon has the potential to make such a camera but if they do today it will be at least a $50k camera and that does not make any business sense. Even at the price range mentioned here it is way out of the range I can afford. So I can only dream


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## Pippan (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap -- Look for New Medium Format in 2018*



HarryFilm said:


> * Canon Clog/Clog2/Clog3 and five User-definable Log file entries are confirmed present.


The rumour must be true. It comes from the Netherlands and it has clogs!


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 15, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



??

You say "only reason," I say "worst case scenario."

EF is the way to go. Keep the mount and existing lenses, fill the volume with batteries and heatsyncs.


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## ahsanford (Mar 15, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > The only point of going mirrorless is if they adopt the 18mm flange depth
> ...



+1 to 3k's rebuttal but not necessarily to 3k's position. 

No one on this planet knows what flange depth (full EF or 'thin' mount) Canon will choose for FF mirrorless, so a position of certainty either way is a guess and nothing more. There are two wildly differently positioned camps on this issue and both are dead set that 'mirrorless is all about _____ so the mount must be ______ and I'm certain of it'.

But we don't know.

It could go either way or even conceivably even _both_ ways (i.e. a skinny mount offering and an EF mount offering) if there is enough interest. Time will tell.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 15, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > jeffa4444 said:
> ...



I admit "worst case scenario" was hyperbolic.

My main incredulity is that choosing that specific flange length is the *only point* of eliminating the mirror.

I can see why canon would like to sell another line of lenses, but I'd like to use the ones I have and without adapters (my ~2 years using Sony mirrorless has turned me off of them).


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## jolyonralph (Mar 15, 2017)

What happened to the new EF-M 'quality' zoom lens?


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## powershot2012 (Mar 15, 2017)

How about the PowerShot line? Any specific upcoming models?





Canon Rumors said:


> <p>2017 isn’t shaping up to being a big year for Canon, but there are going to be a fair number of popular announcements this year. Below is what we can confirm is coming in 2017, even if we cannot confirm exactly when things are coming.</p>
> <p>We also touch on a few things that won’t be coming this year, in case you’re on the fence about a purchase.</p>
> <p><strong>DSLRs</strong></p>
> <ul>
> ...


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## douglaurent (Mar 15, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > If you think Canon products are already perfect, or don't know or need all the *great camera features *that are out there now
> ...



Don't like to repeat long lists over again, but everybody knows how an EVF, sensor stabilization, focus peaking etc can make life easier. Competitors don't have everything in ONE camera yet (maybe until Sony releases the A7RII/A99II fusion), but you also don't need to buy and carry FIVE different Canon cameras and external devices to enjoy all the best features.


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## Orangutan (Mar 16, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...


EVF is not quite ready -- refresh is almost there, but CDAF is not fast enough for action. EVF's also drain batteries. It's getting close, though.



> sensor stabilization


Doesn't work for long focal lengths.



> focus peaking


I'll agree with you here.


> Competitors don't have everything in ONE camera yet


Which is why buyers and manufacturers make choices about what's important in a single body.



> but you also don't need to buy and carry FIVE different Canon cameras and external devices to enjoy all the best features.


One of those "best features" is the Canon lens lineup.


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## scottgoh (Mar 16, 2017)

really hope to see a 6d2 soon


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## LonelyBoy (Mar 16, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> Don't like to repeat long lists over again, but everybody knows how an EVF, sensor stabilization, focus peaking etc can make life easier. Competitors don't have everything in ONE camera yet (maybe until Sony releases the A7RII/A99II fusion), but you also don't need to buy and carry FIVE different Canon cameras and external devices to enjoy all the best features.



Which FIVE different Canon cameras and external devices are needed? Please be specific.


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## Mikehit (Mar 16, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



Where did you get that from? Canon believes that in-lens stabilisation is _better _for long telephotos but that is far from saying 'it doesn't work' - but even then it is disputed.
Add to that, Olympus and Panasonic have successfully incorporated combined in-lens in in-body stabilisation and the claim is even more tenuous.


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## dak723 (Mar 17, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...



Everyone knows that an EVF makes life more difficult in sunny conditions, or with any type of moving object. Everyone knows that in-lens stabilization works better then IBIS. Everyone knows that focus peaking is an unreliable gimmick. Etc. Etc. Etc.

See how easy it is to take a personal opinion and make it into a ridiculous proclamation!

What's better, innovation or reliability?
What's better, innovation or quality?

I think it is safe to say that your answer would be innovation. Why do assume that others would agree? I will choose the quality, reliable product every single time.

In the past 5 years I have bought and used the Canon 6D, SL1 & M5; Olympus E-M5, E-M1, and used E-620; Sony A7 and A7 II. I have sold some of them on Ebay, but the only 2 cameras that I returned immediately because they were far below my expectations were the two Sony models. Innovation didn't mean much when the cameras were uncomfortable to use, underexposed every shot, had poor color, and gave me poor quality photos away from the image center. I realize that many of these observations are just my opinions. But I also understand that different companies offer different alternatives.


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## romanr74 (Mar 17, 2017)

dak723 said:


> Everyone knows that an EVF makes life more difficult in sunny conditions, or with any type of moving object. Everyone knows that in-lens stabilization works better then IBIS. Everyone knows that focus peaking is an unreliable gimmick. Etc. Etc. Etc.



I just had to wait a few minutes at the bus stop, and to make some use of the time, I checked with random people waiting there, if the above statement is correct. The statement could not be substantiated! In some instances even explaining what EVF or IBIS means didn't help...


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## Orangutan (Mar 17, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > EVF is not quite ready -- refresh is almost there, but CDAF is not fast enough for action. EVF's also drain batteries. It's getting close, though.
> ...



You can test it yourself: look through a short FL lens and try to hold it steady. How much does the image move in the VF? Well, your eye is the sensor, and IBIS would need to move the sensor that far and that fast to accommodate. Now try the same thing with long FL: both the speed and distance of movement are much greater.

If you don't believe me, just read the Wikipedia article on Image Stabilizaton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_stabilization

One thing it mentions that I forgot: IBIS requires a larger image circle to accommodate the sensor movement. That's a challenge for FF.


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## Mikehit (Mar 17, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



'Not as good' is not the same as 'does not work'.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Mar 17, 2017)

RickSpringfield said:


> "*Canon EOS 5DS & Canon EOS 5DS R There will be no new high megapixel camera in 2017*"
> 
> Boooo to that! Was really hoping for a 5DSR with all 5D Mark IV upgrades.
> 
> (here's hoping the OP is misinformed!)



Canon has pretty much never fast tracked a new camera. The 5DS/5DSR are still new, I wouldn't expect a new version until 2019 at the earliest. But if Canon continues to be a creature of habit, I'd say a new 5DS/DSR II will come out in 2020.


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