# 580ex II or 600EX-RT



## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 22, 2012)

I need some external ideas here.

I currently have a 580exII and a 30 foot TTL cord. I have been desperately wanting to go RF wireless.

So, as I see it, I have two options...

1. Pick up 580exII's for cheap(er) as people switch over or companies dump inventory; Then I have to add an RF wireless system (+$100 per flash as I see it)

2. See off my 580exII and start over with the 600EX-RT and a commander.

So, can anybody offer me some thoughts on this?


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## smirkypants (Mar 22, 2012)

Soooooooo overpriced. You can do ETTL with Phottix Odins and a couple of 430 EX IIs. You can put the two 430s together and get a way faster recycle or separate them for more flexibility. If you want more of the Canon system you have to buy more overpriced 600s. Crazy.

One Canon flash and one transmitter is $1000!!!!

One Odin transmitter + 2 receivers + 2 430 EXs = $1000.

Additional Canon flash = $630
Additional 430 EX II + receiver = < $400
Additional 580 EX II + receiver = $590

Not to mention it's not hard to get Canon flashes used.


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks smirkypants,

You helped me make up my mind, but not in the way you probably suspect. As I was reading your response I started forming counter arguments to each point. Then I realized, "I just want the 600". Sometimes you just got to go with the feeling.

Your quite right that the 430's are a better deal, unless (maybe) you need the full power of the flashes most of the time. $ per watt second, the 580 & 600 aren't much different from the 430. However, I don't normally use full power, so I can't make that argument.


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## briansquibb (Mar 22, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> Soooooooo overpriced. You can do ETTL with Phottix Odins and a couple of 430 EX IIs. You can put the two 430s together and get a way faster recycle or separate them for more flexibility.



Put 3 580EXIIs on a trihead for the ultimate in recycling - 3fps is possible


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## smirkypants (Mar 22, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> Thanks smirkypants,
> 
> You helped me make up my mind, but not in the way you probably suspect. As I was reading your response I started forming counter arguments to each point. Then I realized, "I just want the 600". Sometimes you just got to go with the feeling.
> 
> Your quite right that the 430's are a better deal, unless (maybe) you need the full power of the flashes most of the time. $ per watt second, the 580 & 600 aren't much different from the 430. However, I don't normally use full power, so I can't make that argument.


I actually said to get the two 430s and put them both on a single head. You get about 30% more power than the 600s and WAY faster recycling time. I hate waiting several seconds for a flash to recharch.


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## briansquibb (Mar 22, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> CanineCandidsByL said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks smirkypants,
> ...



A 580EX2 recycles quicker than several seconds .....


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## smirkypants (Mar 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> A 580EX2 recycles quicker than several seconds .....


On a full blow Squibby? Canon lists .1 to 6 seconds as the time to ready depending on flash power used.


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## justsomedude (Mar 22, 2012)

+1 for 430's because of the alleged design flaw in the 580EXII's.

I've fried out my pair of 580's twice now. Already sold em for 430's.


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## RC (Mar 22, 2012)

Im not changing to radio controlled any time soon. I have 1 580 EXII, 2 430 EXIIs, and a 33' ETTL cord. Too much invested and the 600EX is very pricy.


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## briansquibb (Mar 22, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > A 580EX2 recycles quicker than several seconds .....
> ...



6 x 580EX on full power? Wow the mind boggles at the light output  How many 430EX would you need to competer - 12?

I have two stands with 3 flash to take birds on the feeders and I get near instantaneous recycle - I only use eTTL so have no idea what % I am shooting at - I only care that I have enough light which during the day is always 8) 8) 8) 8)

When doing portraits recycle is not an issue - just enough to drive the 2 x 7 foot umbrellas and one 40inch hair light - usually 2 flash per stand. Fast enough recycling for fast single shooting.


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## briansquibb (Mar 22, 2012)

RC said:


> Im not changing to radio controlled any time soon. I have 1 580 EXII, 2 430 EXIIs, and a 33' ETTL cord. Too much invested and the 600EX is very pricy.



Ah - the Syl Arena approach


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## RC (Mar 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > Im not changing to radio controlled any time soon. I have 1 580 EXII, 2 430 EXIIs, and a 33' ETTL cord. Too much invested and the 600EX is very pricy.
> ...


   Yip, I'm a big fan of Syl. His Speedliters book is my Bible.


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## briansquibb (Mar 22, 2012)

RC said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > RC said:
> ...



Before I do a shoot I often flick through his book when planning the lighting. I like all the illustrations as it helps to visualise the effect.

Tomorrows shoot will include 2 backlights with blue gel (it is a shoot of a boat ride indoors through caverns) with a wa (probably the TSE-24 on the 1Ds3)


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## smirkypants (Mar 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Before I do a shoot I often flick through his book when planning the lighting. I like all the illustrations as it helps to visualise the effect.
> 
> Tomorrows shoot will include 2 backlights with blue gel (it is a shoot of a boat ride indoors through caverns) with a wa (probably the TSE-24 on the 1Ds3)


I'll show you mine if you show me yours. I'm shooting a hot blonde at the Cathedral of Polo in Buenos Aires.


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## briansquibb (Mar 23, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Before I do a shoot I often flick through his book when planning the lighting. I like all the illustrations as it helps to visualise the effect.
> ...



I got the bike racer in the leathers .... ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## gmrza (Mar 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> smirkypants said:
> 
> 
> > Soooooooo overpriced. You can do ETTL with Phottix Odins and a couple of 430 EX IIs. You can put the two 430s together and get a way faster recycle or separate them for more flexibility.
> ...



And you have the benefit, if you do need to use one on camera, that the 580EXII has 360 degree head rotation.


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 23, 2012)

Funny, but I think it was Syl's reviews of the 600 that made me want to switch. It will be interesting to see what his "standard" gear ends up being in another year.

I also forgot there are several reports of a module that you can stick on your 580s and 430s to control them with RF. Guess I'll hang onto my 580 for now AND get a 600.


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## briansquibb (Mar 23, 2012)

gmrza said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > smirkypants said:
> ...



Indeed - although I tend to use my 430EXII on the hotshoe 

I got this number of flash lights for weddings where I would have three lots of two lights set up

I use PW mini and flex to fire them


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## smirkypants (Mar 23, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> Funny, but I think it was Syl's reviews of the 600 that made me want to switch. It will be interesting to see what his "standard" gear ends up being in another year.
> 
> I also forgot there are several reports of a module that you can stick on your 580s and 430s to control them with RF. Guess I'll hang onto my 580 for now AND get a 600.


I love Syl, but the dude is getting paid to say nice things about the 600. The ONLY thing I see that it does that the Odins or Flexes don't is give feedback as to when the flashes have recycled. He spent the whole video comparing the 600 to the non-radio system used before, which is your classic strawman fallacy. The real competition comes not from there.


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## briansquibb (Mar 23, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> CanineCandidsByL said:
> 
> 
> > Funny, but I think it was Syl's reviews of the 600 that made me want to switch. It will be interesting to see what his "standard" gear ends up being in another year.
> ...



+1 No point in comparing the previous IR with the new RT

The real competition is in the third party RT suppliers.

I wonder if PW will reduce the price of the minis and flexes now - I cant see a long term future for these in a mass market


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## smirkypants (Mar 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I wonder if PW will reduce the price of the minis and flexes now - I cant see a long term future for these in a mass market


I really think the PWs flexes are dead, though the dumb triggers may live on. They are more expensive than the Canon system (a 580EX II + flex (which don't play well together) = more than a 600. People will start to drift towards the Canon standard, and the nail in the coffin will be when Yongnuo starts introducing compatible flashes and triggers. You gotta know that there are people all over China dismantling the new flash and trigger at this very moment. For the long run it may be wise to start investing in the 600 system, but jeez... about $2300 to get started with 3 guns and a trigger.


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> The real competition is in the third party RT suppliers.
> 
> I wonder if PW will reduce the price of the minis and flexes now - I cant see a long term future for these in a mass market



Thats true about the competition, but there is a major advantage to the PWs...they are compatible with non-Canon gear. Somehow, even if Canon makes something to use old flashes with RF, I don't see them making a device that can trigger other gear. I wonde if they would even make the RF an open system so others can produce gear to work with it.


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## smirkypants (Mar 23, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> Thats true about the competition, but there is a major advantage to the PWs...they are compatible with non-Canon gear.


To get full ETTL functionality with the PW flexes, you need to have Canon flashes. Of course you can get the dumb (i.e. full manual) PW triggers, but you lose almost all of the benefits of having the 600s.


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## 7enderbender (Mar 23, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> I need some external ideas here.
> 
> I currently have a 580exII and a 30 foot TTL cord. I have been desperately wanting to go RF wireless.
> 
> ...




Good questions. I've been thinking and watching the used market as well. So far I don't see a lot of 580s and 430s show up.

Here is my thought process so far: I have a 580EXII, a 430EXII, a 270EX and an old Metz 45. So far, the Canon optical wireless system has worked for me (with a long ETTL cord for the 580). For messing around with more complex settings I've used the 4 flashes on manual with cheap Adorama RF triggers. That all works pretty well even though it's not as elegant as the new Canon system or the Odin, etc.

The other issue is that I don't see upgrading from my 5DII for the next few years (unless something happens to it). From what I understand so far, the 600EX and the controller only offer some of the really cool features (5 groups with manual control from the camera) on the new camera models. Not sure if any firmware updates for the 5DII will change that.


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## 7enderbender (Mar 23, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> Funny, but I think it was Syl's reviews of the 600 that made me want to switch. It will be interesting to see what his "standard" gear ends up being in another year.
> 
> I also forgot there are several reports of a module that you can stick on your 580s and 430s to control them with RF. Guess I'll hang onto my 580 for now AND get a 600.



That indeed was a good review - especially the girl with the yellow heels in the fridge ;-)

My guess would be that in a revision of his book it'll be a mix of new gear and old. He has to please Canon and his long-standing readers who haven't upgraded yet to the new cameras and flash system. It'll sure be interesting to see what he comes up with next. I like the current version of the book a lot.


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## squarebox (Mar 23, 2012)

Heh... it was kinda an easy call for me. I have no flash so I definately needed one, and when i looked at prices here in Japan, the 580EX II was 47,000 yen (about $550) and the 600EX was 49,000 (about $580). 

for some reason camera equipement sells below the MSRP AND the listed price includes tax.


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 24, 2012)

I just noticed in the announcement link at speedlights.net, that the new 600 was plugged into a 7d AND using a cable.

Does this make any sense? Or, was somebody just wanting to use all the bells and whistles for the shot?

http://speedlights.net/2012/03/02/canon-600ex-rt-st-e3-r/


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## RC (Mar 24, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> I just noticed in the announcement link at speedlights.net, that the new 600 was plugged into a 7d AND using a cable.
> 
> Does this make any sense? Or, was somebody just wanting to use all the bells and whistles for the shot?
> 
> http://speedlights.net/2012/03/02/canon-600ex-rt-st-e3-r/



Flash in hot shoe with sync cable? Makes no sense to me.


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## briansquibb (Mar 24, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> They are more expensive than the Canon system (a 580EX II + flex (which don't play well together) = more than a 600.



Well mine play well together.


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## pwp (Mar 26, 2012)

RC said:


> CanineCandidsByL said:
> 
> 
> > I just noticed in the announcement link at speedlights.net, that the new 600 was plugged into a 7d AND using a cable.
> ...



Maybe just to show it's possible...

Paul Wright


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## wickidwombat (Mar 26, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> Soooooooo overpriced. You can do ETTL with Phottix Odins and a couple of 430 EX IIs. You can put the two 430s together and get a way faster recycle or separate them for more flexibility. If you want more of the Canon system you have to buy more overpriced 600s. Crazy.
> 
> One Canon flash and one transmitter is $1000!!!!
> 
> ...


basically what he said

I have the odins they are really nice to use and the transmitter has a nice on screen interface where you can quickly adjust power of groups, group balancing etc


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## scottsdaleriots (Mar 27, 2012)

does anyone here own/used the 600ex speedlite yet? i know obviously if you live in the US its not out yet. however its currentlyu available in my country for almost $800. that is such a rip off IMO. i have considered buying the 580EXii but have heard numerous bad things about it.

i dont own a speedlite so my knowledge is pretty limited in this area


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## wickidwombat (Mar 27, 2012)

scottsdaleriots said:


> does anyone here own/used the 600ex speedlite yet? i know obviously if you live in the US its not out yet. however its currentlyu available in my country for almost $800. that is such a rip off IMO. i have considered buying the 580EXii but have heard numerous bad things about it.
> 
> i dont own a speedlite so my knowledge is pretty limited in this area



i have 4 580 exii and dont have any problems with them


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## scottsdaleriots (Mar 27, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> i have 4 580 exii and dont have any problems with them


i have heard they have an issue with the pocket wizard or the hotshoe becoming loose or something? i cant remember exactly, i know there's a DYI fix for that but i am not particularly handy with fixing/altering electronics, especially expensive ones


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## wickidwombat (Mar 27, 2012)

scottsdaleriots said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > i have 4 580 exii and dont have any problems with them
> ...



I use odins
2 odin transmitters and 4 recievers
piles of eneloops
4 yongnuo external battery packs (these are brilliant for $40 /each hold 8 extra batteries and your flashes go all day with faster recycle times)
580 ex ii are only $450 from digital rev


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## briansquibb (Mar 27, 2012)

scottsdaleriots said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > i have 4 580 exii and dont have any problems with them
> ...



I have never had a problem with PW - I have 1 mini and 5 flex running 4 x 580EX and 2 x 580EXII.


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## bycostello (Mar 27, 2012)

if i was starting from scratch i'd go for the 600s, cost about as much as a 580 with pocket wizard, but figure gonna be way more reliable and less mis fires...


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## smirkypants (Mar 27, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I have never had a problem with PW - I have 1 mini and 5 flex running 4 x 580EX and 2 x 580EXII.


Really? I had a shoot with a model and I had to shoot at a little bit of a distance because of the way the shot was set up. I had a 580 EX II on a light pole with an assistant and 2 430 EX IIs... one rimming the model and the other lighting the tree canopy. This was at about 30 yards and I'd say in about 150 shots I had about 20 misfires from the 580 and none from the 430s. It's possible that I was getting ahead of the recycle time on the 580, but I don't think so. PW readily admits on their web page that the 580 isn't ideal.


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## briansquibb (Mar 27, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I have never had a problem with PW - I have 1 mini and 5 flex running 4 x 580EX and 2 x 580EXII.
> ...



Are you running in the 433mhz band?


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 27, 2012)

Yes another question about 600EX-RT compatibility...it seems some features are only available to support newer cameras. Does it have additional hot shoe connections? Would all features work when using current hot shoe extension cables?


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## smirkypants (Mar 27, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Are you running in the 433mhz band?


They are US PWs being used in Argentina and the US. It is the legal band in both, though I snuck them to Europe. 344 MHz. I am willing to accept that I'm doing something wrong but have had zero problems with 430s, so I just go with them. I knew the risks going in, but I wanted ETTL badly because I work outdoors with an assistant with a lightstick and don't have the time/skill to be constantly fine-tuning the aperture/shutter. I don't trust them outdoors at any kind of distance with a 580II, even though I'd love to attach a battery pack to recycle more quickly. From what I've read, it's an inherent problem with the system that can be minimized but not fixed but 14 months ago they were the best option. Probably the wrong thread and even the wrong board to discuss this, though.


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## briansquibb (Mar 27, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Are you running in the 433mhz band?
> ...



I take pictures at a max of about 75ft so probably will have no problem with any radio system. My remotes are 580EX not 580EX II which according to PW are less susceptible to the possible problem. Also the different band makes a difference.

I think that Canon redesigned the 580 with the PW experience in mind and labelled it the 600 rather than 580III as people would associate the 580 with the problems


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## scottsdaleriots (Mar 28, 2012)

would there be any benefit/logical/practical reason to buy a 580exii _and_ a 600ex? i know it doesnt really make much sense, should prob just get the 580exii but i always want the latest and greatest. Isnt the 600ex better more superior, it being the flagship speedlite? e.g more power, faster recycle time, dont have to charge it as frequently(?), more features (i think, im waiting for a review), etc


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## briansquibb (Mar 28, 2012)

scottsdaleriots said:


> would there be any benefit/logical/practical reason to buy a 580exii _and_ a 600ex? i know it doesnt really make much sense, should prob just get the 580exii but i always want the latest and greatest. Isnt the 600ex better more superior, it being the flagship speedlite? e.g more power, faster recycle time, dont have to charge it as frequently(?), more features (i think, im waiting for a review), etc



From the specifications the 600 doesn't seem to be very different from the 580 - usually for Canon this is the first time that the number doesn't relate directly to the power

It will be interesting to see a detailed review


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 28, 2012)

I started looking at $$$ again. I was thinking about selling off my 580ex II, but found I probably could only get $200 to $300 for it. So, I'll probably hang onto it for a while.

But, I think its fair for price comparisons to use ~$250 for the 580ex II + RF, vs $630 for the 600. Your not going to be able to buy used 600s in any quantity for months to years.

So if your not concerned with dollars, why not go with the 600s? If you are concerned with dollars, then the price of 580s equipment with RF is going to be in the $300 to $350 range. Perhaps less if many people do switch over and swamp the market. When you can buy 580s at half the price, its hard to ignore.

I'm still probably going to make future purchases of 600s, but I'm also hoping for an offical Canon RF adapter solution for older flashes.


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## smirkypants (Mar 28, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> From the specifications the 600 doesn't seem to be very different from the 580 - usually for Canon this is the first time that the number doesn't relate directly to the power


I find that being able to zoom to 200mm interesting, and possibly quite useful in throwing narrower beams of light across a subject (without a snoot) and hit subjects better at a distance. But you're right, that's hardly a killer feature.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 28, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> From the specifications the 600 doesn't seem to be very different from the 580 - usually for Canon this is the first time that the number doesn't relate directly to the power



Well, the number is directly related to the guide number - the 580EX II has a guide number of 58 meters, and the 600EX-RT has a guide number of 60 meters. So, it's a modest increase in guide number (consider that the predecessor to the 580EX was the 550EX, and the predecessor to the 430EX was the 420EX). 

The real problem is that guide numbers are not really indicative of flash power for heads with zoom capability, since the zoom setting changes the effective guide number.


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## scottsdaleriots (Mar 29, 2012)

Now im thinking of the 420exii instead of the 580exii along with the new 600ex-rt


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## squarebox (Mar 29, 2012)

Doesn't the new 1dx and 5dm3 have built wireless to activate off-shoe 600ex-rts? This would make the 600ex-rt a slightly better deal.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 29, 2012)

squarebox said:


> Doesn't the new 1dx and 5dm3 have built wireless to activate off-shoe 600ex-rts? This would make the 600ex-rt a slightly better deal.


HaHa no. thats and expensive extra you have to buy i'm afraid


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## smirkypants (Mar 29, 2012)

squarebox said:


> Doesn't the new 1dx and 5dm3 have built wireless to activate off-shoe 600ex-rts? This would make the 600ex-rt a slightly better deal.


Nope. The controller is $470. You're probably thinking that with the new flash only the EOS 5D Mark III and EOS-1D X offer flash configuration menus specific to the new model.


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 29, 2012)

squarebox said:


> Doesn't the new 1dx and 5dm3 have built wireless to activate off-shoe 600ex-rts? This would make the 600ex-rt a slightly better deal.



It would make it a much better deal. A lot of podcasts/posts were guessing that this was built it, but sadly no...I don't know why it isn't, or why they didn't offer a different type of box deal for camera + flash + half price (or free) controller.


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## squarebox (Mar 29, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> squarebox said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't the new 1dx and 5dm3 have built wireless to activate off-shoe 600ex-rts? This would make the 600ex-rt a slightly better deal.
> ...



Ah i just rechecked my manual... you were right... allows flash configuration...


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## StanFoxworthy (Mar 31, 2012)

The reason the cord is plugged back into the camera is so that you can trigger the shutter remotely as well, using the new system.

Maybe it's for the guys that like to have a setup behind a goal, etc.?

....or it was the answer to a question that nobody asked.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 31, 2012)

after playing with the versitility of the odins i would go with odins and either 580ex flashes and save pile of money or look at yongnuo 565 with the odins

since the yongnuo 565 dont have high speed sync but have ettl and the odins let you shoot right out to 1/8000 anyway it makes it such a cheap setup

i dont have any yongnuo 565 flashes yet but i think i'll grab a few when i'm over in china in a few weeks and test them out with the odins.

i dont think the 600 rt can even get close to how versitle the odins are


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## briansquibb (Mar 31, 2012)

StanFoxworthy said:


> The reason the cord is plugged back into the camera is so that you can trigger the shutter remotely as well, using the new system.
> 
> Maybe it's for the guys that like to have a setup behind a goal, etc.?
> 
> ....or it was the answer to a question that nobody asked.



That was a very interesting answer  ;D - is there more info on the remote trigger?


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## smirkypants (Mar 31, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> since the yongnuo 565 dont have high speed sync but have ettl and the odins let you shoot right out to 1/8000 anyway it makes it such a cheap setup


Wombat... One of the features that intrigues me about the Odins is the ability to mix ETTL and non ETTL groups. So, say you want to expose a subject properly and use and adjust ratios for that, but say you want to use another group to blow out a background. You can use two or three Canons to set up the light on the subject but use a couple of cheapies set to full manual to blow out the wall. If you just need a little added extra simple lighting, you can use a $70 dumb flash in conjunction with the rest of your setup. Brilliant.


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## StanFoxworthy (Mar 31, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> StanFoxworthy said:
> 
> 
> > The reason the cord is plugged back into the camera is so that you can trigger the shutter remotely as well, using the new system.
> ...



I am still waiting for demo units from CPS, but from what (little) I know, you can use the SR-N3 remote cord for triggering, possibly with the ST-E3 RT. I'll be happy to pass along any info once the toys show up. Looks like there has been some delays on getting enough demo units in stock at CPS, and it may even be Q3 before we get to test out the 1Dx..... :'( At least my existing gear still works!


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 31, 2012)

StanFoxworthy said:


> The reason the cord is plugged back into the camera is so that you can trigger the shutter remotely as well, using the new system.
> 
> Maybe it's for the guys that like to have a setup behind a goal, etc.?
> 
> ....or it was the answer to a question that nobody asked.



Thanks! That makes a lot of sense. But, how do you know this? Have you got a juicy source (or manual) your not sharing?


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> Have you got a juicy source (or manual) your not sharing?



The 600EX manual is available for download, there's a link in another thread specifically about the manual. I read through it this morning, since I ordered the 600EX-RT from Amazon last night (they have it in stock now).


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## wickidwombat (Apr 2, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > since the yongnuo 565 dont have high speed sync but have ettl and the odins let you shoot right out to 1/8000 anyway it makes it such a cheap setup
> ...


exactly! just grab a pile of cheap yongnuo flashes for dumb lighting still need odin recievers at $200 a pop though but you can get 3 flashes and recievers for what a 600 costs...


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## chrysek (Apr 2, 2012)

I had 580 flash and I loved it, but today I received 600ex-rt and I love it... I will not use the radio remote for sure as I cant justify spending that for the transmitter, but the lamp is amazing... wow, I seriously love it... there in manual it says that they have 600ex only without transmitter, I will probably get it... I seriously love that new lamp ))))


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2012)

chrysek said:


> there in manual it says that they have 600ex only without transmitter, I will probably get it...



It's only available in certain countries. The UK, for example, but not the US. Still, I'm sure they'll show up on eBay after a while...


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## chrysek (Apr 3, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> chrysek said:
> 
> 
> > there in manual it says that they have 600ex only without transmitter, I will probably get it...
> ...



Eventually they will make to US, because certainly this flash is build to last  I just love how it works, the sound of it charging is even different from what I used to


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## CanineCandidsByL (Apr 3, 2012)

While I don't count on Canon to provide more features via a firmware update, does anyone think the 600EX-RT could operate RF & optical at the same time?

Assuming they would need to broadcast at the same time, there might be a power issue, but more importantly the flash might put off considerable RF interference. PocketWizard is clearly familiar with that problem.


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## chrysek (Apr 3, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> While I don't count on Canon to provide more features via a firmware update, does anyone think the 600EX-RT could operate RF & optical at the same time?
> 
> Assuming they would need to broadcast at the same time, there might be a power issue, but more importantly the flash might put off considerable RF interference. PocketWizard is clearly familiar with that problem.



In the manual it says that it would not operate on both, its one or the other


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## CanineCandidsByL (Apr 3, 2012)

chrysek said:


> In the manual it says that it would not operate on both, its one or the other



Right, but that as it stands now. I'm wondering if it would even be technically feasible with a firmware update or in the next generation.


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## chrysek (Apr 3, 2012)

Would be nice, but unfortunately I do not think so. I wonder if somehow those triggers could trigger studio strobes? Or do we still need to have pocket wizards or other devices. Can canon triggering system replace it? It would make sense so people would not need to have both, as canon solution is quite expensive proposition.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2012)

chrysek said:


> I wonder if somehow those triggers could trigger studio strobes?



If Canon release a RF receiver for their non-RF flashes to work with the ST-E3/600EX-RT system, then possibly that could be used to trigger a studio strobe via PC sync cable. But until then, that's the main reason I'm sticking with PWs - the ability to trigger both Speedlites (via FlexTT5s) and a PCB Einstein (via PowerMC2).


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## smirkypants (Apr 3, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> If Canon release a RF receiver for their non-RF flashes to work with the ST-E3/600EX-RT system, then possibly that could be used to trigger a studio strobe via PC sync cable. But until then, that's the main reason I'm sticking with PWs - the ability to trigger both Speedlites (via FlexTT5s) and a PCB Einstein (via PowerMC2).


You gotta think that in shops all over China they are ripping apart 600s to see how they tick. Someone is going to make a Canon compatible receiver, I think it is pretty much inevitable. The potential market is huge.


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## Mike Miami (Apr 3, 2012)

chrysek said:


> Would be nice, but unfortunately I do not think so. I wonder if somehow those triggers could trigger studio strobes? Or do we still need to have pocket wizards or other devices. Can canon triggering system replace it? It would make sense so people would not need to have both, as canon solution is quite expensive proposition.





1+


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## Mike Miami (Apr 3, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon release a RF receiver for their non-RF flashes to work with the ST-E3/600EX-RT system, then possibly that could be used to trigger a studio strobe via PC sync cable. But until then, that's the main reason I'm sticking with PWs - the ability to trigger both Speedlites (via FlexTT5s) and a PCB Einstein (via PowerMC2).
> ...



Yes I'm thinking the same about China shops. I am sure they realize how wanted a tool like that would be and the amount of $$$$ is there to be made if they do develop something to fire studio strobes with the new Canon transmitter, especially if Canon doesnt bring out their own.


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## wickidwombat (Apr 4, 2012)

give it a few months an yongnuo will have one out at 1/4 of the price


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## FunPhotons (Apr 4, 2012)

On using legacy flashes with the 600, check out Syl Arena who found a workaround. Since we're using wireless, you can use a cheap optical trigger to get your 580's to play with the 600. I'm debating whether to sell the 580EXII and 480 to fund a fourth 600, or just do this option.

If you have the money, I highly recommend the 600. Simple, clean, easy system, I'm really liking it.


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## Maui5150 (Apr 4, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> chrysek said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if somehow those triggers could trigger studio strobes?
> ...



I will one up you there... my PW fires my strobes, as does my light meter. Most days all I need is my MiniTT and then a Flex for the occasional times I use a speedlight


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## smirkypants (Apr 4, 2012)

So I was thinking about something. Yesterday I was shooting a team and was using on-camera flash for a bit of fill. I hate using the flash on-camera and generally dial the flash exposure compensation way down just to make sure the faces aren't dark. In the past I've experimented with a couple of flexes and hand-holding the flash to the side, but there was just too much hassle rigging it up, plus the bulk. 

But you know, if you have two 600s, it suddenly becomes much less complicated, I think. If you've got one 600 on camera and have a spare, you can just power on the second and change the mode of the one on-camera, and you're in business in seconds with no extra gadgets to fool around with. A flash at arm's length give better results than one right above the lens. 

Hmmm.....


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 4, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> In the past I've experimented with a couple of flexes and hand-holding the flash to the side, but there was just too much hassle rigging it up, plus the bulk.
> 
> But you know, if you have two 600s, it suddenly becomes much less complicated, I think. If you've got one 600 on camera and have a spare, you can just power on the second and change the mode of the one on-camera, and you're in business in seconds with no extra gadgets to fool around with. A flash at arm's length give better results than one right above the lens.



Sounds like you're over-thinking it.  To hold a flash at arms-length for some off-axis fill, I just connect with an OC-E3 (and many times, I use a flash bracket for that), no mucking about with RF triggers.


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## smirkypants (Apr 4, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like you're over-thinking it.  To hold a flash at arms-length for some off-axis fill, I just connect with an OC-E3 (and many times, I use a flash bracket for that), no mucking about with RF triggers.


It's not quite the same. With the cable you have to remove the flash head from camera, put it into the hot shoe. Plus, I don't know why, but I just hate messing with cables and a flash bracket just isn't going to happen.

I also like the idea of whipping out out of my pocket and setting it on a table with like zero fuss. I'm all about elimanating fuss. I barely have the attention span of a gerbil.


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## wockawocka (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm selling my 580 II's and my PW TT1/TT5's only because I want to reduce the amount I carry to weddings and save on setting up time.

I'm paying a lot for the swap. Unless you really need the 600's I wouldn't touch them. Another nice thing with the TT5/TT1 combo is the trigger anything that can connect to it (light wise such as studio lights).


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 4, 2012)

If Canon comes out with an RF receiver with a PC sync connector that I can use to fire a monolight, I'd consider it.

But...people have mentioned preferring to control the groups using the flash display rather than 'digging into the camera menus' - personally, it's hard to image anything easier that spinning the little wheels on the PW AC3 to adjust the relative output of the flashes...


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## briansquibb (Apr 4, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> If Canon comes out with an RF receiver with a PC sync connector that I can use to fire a monolight, I'd consider it.
> 
> But...people have mentioned preferring to control the groups using the flash display rather than 'digging into the camera menus' - personally, it's hard to image anything easier that spinning the little wheels on the PW AC3 to adjust the relative output of the flashes...



Or even using the old St-e2 with its push buttons ...


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