# EOS-1D X & EOS 5D Mark III Replacements in 2015 [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 23, 2014)

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<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/06/eos-1d-x-eos-5d-mark-iii-replacements-in-2015-cr1/"></g:plusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/06/eos-1d-x-eos-5d-mark-iii-replacements-in-2015-cr1/">Tweet</a></div>
<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1Dx_mk2.html" target="_blank">Northlight has posted a bit of a roadmap</a> for the pro level cameras from Canon. They’ve been told that the EOS-1D X Mark II would come first, with a potential announcement coming in very late 2014. The EOS 5D Mark III would follow afterwards. Both cameras will most likely benefit from the new sensor technology we’ll see in the upcoming EOS 7D replacement.</p>
<p><strong>CR’s Take

</strong>If the technology in the EOS 7D replacement is as great as people are claiming it to be (we don’t yet know what it is), then it would make sense to replace the other flagship models in the lineup fairly quickly. The EOS 5D Mark III was arrived in March of 2012, and the EOS-1D X soon after in June of 2012. A three year cycle for each seems doable, even if the EOS 7D will have taken nearly 5 years to replace.<strong>

</strong></p>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1Dx_mk2.html" target="_blank">NL</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## jdramirez (Jun 23, 2014)

Huh... I was hoping to have more time before being tempted by an mkiv. I'll have gotten two years out of the body before it was old news... though I'm now wondering about residual resale value... maybe I just won't think about it.


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## SpartanII (Jun 23, 2014)

Lovely! This means there will be more "used" gear on the market at awesome prices around this time. 5D mark ii's and 6D's more specifically.


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## KKCFamilyman (Jun 23, 2014)

Makes me wonder if I should return my 1dx and wait since I have the time.


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## ejenner (Jun 23, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> Huh... I was hoping to have more time before being tempted by an mkiv. I'll have gotten two years out of the body before it was old news... though I'm now wondering about residual resale value... maybe I just won't think about it.



My thoughts exactly, but when has anything come out when we hoped for it? So if the mkIV comes out at the end of 2015, then most people will have gotten 3+ years out of the mkIII which is about what we would hope for if one wants to stay with the most current technology.

Better than waiting 5+ years for minor upgrades in sensor IQ; if indeed it is a major upgrade.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 23, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> Makes me wonder if I should return my 1dx and wait since I have the time.



Couple things to consider. It's CR1. If this rumor is true, we looking at least 1yr or more before we get to hand on X2.

We both bought the X at discount price. We might lose $500-$700 when ready to upgrade. It still cheaper than rent. I'm keeping mine until I see real thing


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## Don Haines (Jun 23, 2014)

If this is true, and Canon feels that this "new technology" about to be debuted in the 7D2 is so good that the rest of the lineup must have it, it must be something big!


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## jdramirez (Jun 23, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> If this is true, and Canon feels that this "new technology" about to be debuted in the 7D2 is so good that the rest of the lineup must have it, it must be something big!



That is quite optimistic. 

Launch price for the mkiii was 3500... so I suppose $4000 seems like a reasonable bump up in price... with the 1dx's selling at $5000... it really raises the question of whether a 1dx for an extra grand is worth it more than a new mkiv. Interesting question.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 23, 2014)

I think its too soon for 5D3 refresh but this would be my list for me to buy a 5d4.

Stills Side

1. Blinky AF point
2. Linked AF point Spot Metering
3. 1/250th Sync speed bump. (1/500 would be even more sweet)
4. Built in RT transmitter
5. 7 FPS bump and improved buffer for dual card writing. (pitiful if you use the SD card slot currently.)
6. Dual CF or SD, just pick one or the other.
7. Add dual custom buttons like the 1Dx besides the lens mount.
8??. Did anyone notice the second curtain sync C-fn through PC sync missing in the mk3? I was positive this was on my 5Dc or the 5D2...
9. Make the Rate button do something else beside's rate and protect. :/
10. Slight screen bump in resolution/size and/or Touchscreen with optional toggle.
11. Lastly, Any ISO/IQ/Resolution bump is nice but these other features are much more important to me.

Video side. 

1. DPAF
2. 4K
3. RAW Video Internally (if possible, Magic lantern will get it anyway.)
4. Peaking
5. Crop Mode 1080P

Thats all I could think of at this moment. Its mostly little stuff and if canon doesn't include the majority of these things, I won't upgrade.

Edit. 

12. I would like glowing buttons like on the D4s.


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## Lee Jay (Jun 23, 2014)

This is all pretty plausible, given the times since announcement for all three camera (1DX, 5DIII, 7D). I wonder if they'll do a "development" announcement at some point if the 7D replacement performs significantly better per unit of sensor area than the two higher-end full-frame cameras do.

I'll tell you this, if it is true, I'll probably buy a 7DII and a 5DIV (or whatever they're called). I haven't upgraded bodies in about a decade, so this would be a good time for me, most likely.


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## Etienne (Jun 23, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> I think its too soon for 5D3 refresh but this would be my list for me to buy a 5d4.
> 
> Stills Side
> 
> ...



+1 ... nice list, although I like having 1 CF, 1 SD slot . I have a high speed CF, and I use an Eye-fi in the SD slot to transfer Medium sized JPGs


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## AtSea (Jun 23, 2014)

Biggest complaint about the 5d III is that they limited the SD-card slot to Class 10 speeds. Amateur hour.


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## Lee Jay (Jun 23, 2014)

AtSea said:


> Biggest complaint about the 5d III is that they limited the SD-card slot to Class 10 speeds. Amateur hour.



One would presume that with a new ASIC rev (Canon calls theirs DIGIC), such interfaces would receive an upgrade.


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## Austin (Jun 23, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> Makes me wonder if I should return my 1dx and wait since I have the time.



Don't return an awesome camera over a rumour!

There will always be better cameras on the horizon. Waiting only makes sense when it's so obviosly around the corner, that camera shops aren't even stocking it anymore (which is the case with the 7D, here in Japan).


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## eml58 (Jun 23, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> 12. I would like glowing buttons like on the D4s.



The D4s has glowing buttons you say ???????????

That's it, I'm deserting to Nikon.


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## Austin (Jun 23, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> I think its too soon for 5D3 refresh but this would be my list for me to buy a 5d4.
> 
> Stills Side
> 
> ...



You are only going to get that on their flagship model! Be reasonable! All that would make the 1DX obsolete!


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## RLPhoto (Jun 23, 2014)

Austin said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I think its too soon for 5D3 refresh but this would be my list for me to buy a 5d4.
> ...


Well, canon will then have to be reasonable for not getting my money. Which I'm sure they won't mind and I wouldn't either. ;D


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## adamfilip (Jun 23, 2014)

13. RAW HDR
14. RAW Multiple Exposure
15. Illuminated buttons (all of them, for working in dark)
16. 4K Video @ 60fps
17. 1080P video @ 240 fps
18. Special Macro optimized Focus mode.. 
19. better shutter button texture / feel
20. Simplifed WIFI setup / Easier Faster
21. 40+MP



RLPhoto said:


> 1. Blinky AF point
> 2. Linked AF point Spot Metering
> 3. 1/250th Sync speed bump. (1/500 would be even more sweet)
> 4. Built in RT transmitter
> ...


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## VelocideX (Jun 23, 2014)

I would be most interested in:
1) Removal of low-ISO banding
2) Improved high ISO performance
3) Greater DR

Even an improvement of 1/2 a stop in terms of ISO noise performance is pretty significant - it can be the difference between an unusable and usable image. ISO 12800 is still usable in many circumstances (ISO 25600 only with super aggressive). 

Other sensors have improved noise characteristics compared to the 5D3 in some respects, so clearly this is possible. 

The usability issues are pretty minor for me.


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## Austin (Jun 23, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> Well, canon will then have to be reasonable for not getting my money.



Well, you've put them in quite a position. Your move Canon!


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## Austin (Jun 23, 2014)

adamfilip said:


> 13. RAW HDR
> 14. RAW Multiple Exposure
> 15. Illuminated buttons (all of them, for working in dark)
> 16. 4K Video @ 60fps
> ...



It appears you forgot the built-in Fleshlight.


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## unfocused (Jun 23, 2014)

Very skeptical. It would have to be something very revolutionary to make me want to upgrade my 5DIII.

Only thing that comes to mind that would tempt me would be using DPAF to eliminate the need for AFMA – Camera looks at the on-sensor focus and then calibrates the lens to get precise focus through the viewfinder.


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## Daniel Flather (Jun 23, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> I think its too soon for 5D3 refresh but this would be my list for me to buy a 5d4.
> 
> Stills Side
> 
> ...



Numbers 1 and 2 would be great. Your number 4 item is odd, who here would want dual SD only? I'd venture to say most, if not all, users with cameras at this level are well invested in CF cards.


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## Chaitanya (Jun 23, 2014)

eml58 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > 12. I would like glowing buttons like on the D4s.
> ...



Both nikon D4/s had glow in dark buttons. Olympus slr was the first one to come with glow in dark buttons. (Image taken from fstopper)

I would like to see Cfast 2.0 card slots instead of cf which is ageing memory card standard.


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## dufflover (Jun 23, 2014)

Etienne said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I think its too soon for 5D3 refresh but this would be my list for me to buy a 5d4.
> ...



Mate get real - you pretty much want a 1D-X level camera. Canon aren't going to give you all that in a 5-series. Even the dual CF slots looks pretty exclusive to the 1-series. Cameras like the 6D show a willingness to dumb stuff down between models and I don't see that changing anytime soon.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 23, 2014)

dufflover said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



Nothing in that list says I need a 12+ FPS, All day battery, Ridiculous ISO performing, Large gripped sports machine gun. I expect the 1Dxi to deliver much more than that list.

No that list completes what already was darn near a perfect wedding/portrait/studio camera.


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## Antono Refa (Jun 23, 2014)

AtSea said:


> Biggest complaint about the 5d III is that they limited the SD-card slot to Class 10 speeds. Amateur hour.



I think it's intentional crippling - if the SD slot had UHS-I, it would compete with the 1D X's 2nd CF slot.


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## 9VIII (Jun 23, 2014)

If the 5DIV releases next summer that will be a neat and tidy average for the 5D lifecycle.


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## benperrin (Jun 23, 2014)

9VIII said:


> If the 5DIV releases next summer that will be a neat and tidy average for the 5D lifecycle.


I'd love it to be the case. I have the 5d2 and the upgrade to the 3 wasn't worth it to me so the mark 4 will definitely be on my radar.


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## RGomezPhotos (Jun 23, 2014)

Totally nailed the refresh on each of these cameras! Now the fun part....

I think the 5DIII is an excellent camera. But I think they failed big time by not having built-in WiFi and removable focus screen. How can they make it better? Resolve these two issues. If it has built in WiFi, have dual CF slots. None of this SD silliness. Built in GPS would be nice. A built-in transmitter/controller for their flash units as someone mentioned earlier. That's an excellent idea. Minimum three groups to control. Five would be better. Better ISO performance and maybe a stop higher on the top end. Maybe an extra stop better in color dynamic range. USB3/Thunderbolt. I don't care much about video... But I think they'll have 4k in it....

The 5DIII is an amazing camera as-is. I think it would take a huge improvement and fantastic new functions for people to upgrade.

I would love to have a 1DX as my workhorse, do-anything camera. The refresh would have to be something out of this world to make make it a worthy update. Built-in WiFi and GPS. An extra stop in upper ISO performance would be nice. But I would rather see SUPERIOR ISO performance from 100 - 50k. Built-in radio transmitter/controller for flash units. Remove the network connector and replace with USB3 and Thunderbolt. Color dynamic range and sharpness that is approaching Medium Format. Again, I couldn't care less about video so... But I think they'll have more and improved video and this will require CFast.

I have a feeling that with the new uber-lenses from Zeiss and Sigma, that they had insider information on Canon's latest. Yes, the Nikon D800(x) can take advantage of these lenses. But that's a tiny tiny market. So in terms of sensor performance, I'm hoping we'll see tech. that will take us into the next 5 -7 years.... Like the previous sensors.

Since it looks like the big MP is not going to happen after all, I think they are going to make the 1DX upgrade a little more suitable for fashion/landscape photographers. The 1DX. Maybe the best overall DSLR in the world. Is really a sports shooter's camera. Sure it's good enough for other uses. But Medium Format is the future for certain pros. 

The new Pentax 645Z is currently the in-between camera. Similar AF and ISO performance of the better DSLRs. Better image quality than a top DSLR, but not like the Phase One or Hassy. And certainly cheaper than the Phase One and Hassy. If I was a full time wedding or event photographer, I'd probably go with the Pentax 645Z. Even with the bucks a wedding photographer can make, having a couple of Phase Ones would be crazy money. But two 645Zs is totally doable. And the wedding business is HUGE. If Canon wants to keep and grow their market, they gotta compete with MF.

It's going to be a tough 6 months!!!


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## R1-7D (Jun 23, 2014)

A bit early in the update cycle if true when compared to previous updates maybe? I would think it would be later in 2015 that replacements are possibly announced with closer to 2016 with an actual release if there will be updates.


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## sanj (Jun 23, 2014)

R1-7D said:


> A bit early in the update cycle if true when compared to previous updates maybe? I would think it would be later in 2015 that replacements are possibly announced with closer to 2016 with an actual release if there will be updates.



True


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## R1-7D (Jun 23, 2014)

Looking at the Northlight website and going back quite a few months there seems to be a lot of "throw mud at the wall and see if it sticks" going on.

I'm sure replacements are in the works. When will we see them is the question...so in the meantime enjoy what you've got.


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## Vikmnilu (Jun 23, 2014)

R1-7D said:


> I'm sure replacements are in the works. When will we see them is the question...so in the meantime enjoy what you've got.



+1

Just go out and shoot!!! And be happy with what you own!


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## Maximilian (Jun 23, 2014)

If this rumor will come true it will meet my expectations on the Canon DSLR roadmap.
For all those complaining about Canons sensor tech I am hoping, that this new tech will be really improving and maybe then they could be a little bit more relaxed. But I don't believe they will 

If the sensors will become that good, I hope the price will be too high for me to be tempted or low enough that I can afford it. But the least I don't expect


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## Harry68 (Jun 23, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> ...They’ve been told that the EOS-1D X Mark II would come first, with a potential announcement coming in very late 2014. The EOS 5D *Mark III* would follow afterwards….


Could you please update the text, because there is already a 5D Mark III.

Some of the specs here in the wish list for the 5D sounds like too much for the 5D, but think, it will take at least one year (2 years are more realistic) for the arrival of the new cam. Today only a few people needs 4K Video, but in two years it's like the same with Wifi today. The 6D is the lower cam, but has got Wifi, GPS and the amazing -3ev AF, which the 5DIII has not inside.


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## dolina (Jun 23, 2014)

Announced...

5D Mark 1 = 22 August 2005
5D Mark 2 = 17 September 2008 (3 years & 1 month)
5D Mark 3 = 2 March 2012 (3 years & 
5D Mark 4 = ?

1D X2 = ?
1D X = 18 October 2011
1D 4 = 20 October 2009
1D 3 = February 21, 2007
1D 2n = August 22, 2005
1D 2 = January 2004
1D = November 2001

1Ds = September 24, 2002
1Ds 2 = 2004
1Ds 3 = 20 August 2007

7D = 1 September 2009
7D Mark 2 = ?


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## Don Haines (Jun 23, 2014)

R1-7D said:


> Looking at the Northlight website and going back quite a few months there seems to be a lot of "throw mud at the wall and see if it sticks" going on.
> 
> I'm sure replacements are in the works. When will we see them is the question...so in the meantime enjoy what you've got.


Don't forget that northlight said that the release of the 7D2 was only a month or so away....... And announced that a year and a half ago..... With a spec list that was inferior to the 70D and no mention of DPAF. I don't believe anything they claim.


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## pwp (Jun 23, 2014)

unfocused said:


> It would have to be something very revolutionary to make me want to upgrade my 5DIII.
> Only thing that comes to mind that would tempt me would be using DPAF to eliminate the need for AFMA


Absolutely...an auto AFMA function alone would create a bazillion sales for Canon. 
I'm no propeller-head or double degree science graduate, but do basic physics make this feasibly possible/achievable?

-pw


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## R1-7D (Jun 23, 2014)

dolina said:


> Announced...
> 
> 5D Mark 1 = 22 August 2005
> 5D Mark 2 = 17 September 2008 (3 years & 1 month)
> ...



The roadmap for the 1DX update might be a bit different than previous 1D cameras; the biggest difference is there is no crop sensor anymore. It's a reasonable assumption that developing a full frame sensor takes more resources and is therefore less likely to receive as frequent updates as in the past when compared to previous 1D models. Of course, this is just an assumption. 

In my own opinion of the matter, what's the point of rushing an update? Nikon just updated their D4 with the D4s, but the 1DX is still arguably current and still has superior frame rate, autofocus and resolution. It's also selling better than Nikon's offering. No point in updating if you don't have to. 

There's always an update in the works. When the iPhone 6 launches in September you can bet your buns Jony Ive has the 6s already planned out. With the 1DX, despite being announced in October of 2011, it wasn't even in stores until late June or July of 2012. Even if a new 1D body is announced (which I doubt for this year), it will most likely be a good six to nine months before we actually see one available for purchase. 

My own guess would be late 2015 or early to mid 2016 for the new 1D. Like I said before, enjoy what you're currently shooting.


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## R1-7D (Jun 23, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> R1-7D said:
> 
> 
> > Looking at the Northlight website and going back quite a few months there seems to be a lot of "throw mud at the wall and see if it sticks" going on.
> ...



Exactly. I've spent the evening reading that site and I'm even more skeptical than I was before. 

Their rumors with release dates and specs are frequently wrong, and Rumors like this one on the main page of CR are a combination of common knowledge (yes, Canon will eventually update their line of cameras) and guesses. 

The saying "even a broken clock is right twice a day" relates to that site nicely. They make crap up most of the time, but occasionally announce something legitimate (usually nothing earth-shattering) and then claim to be a reliable source.


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## keithcooper (Jun 23, 2014)

KKCFamilyman said:


> Makes me wonder if I should return my 1dx and wait since I have the time.



I'd suggest not - I bought my 1Ds at the end of 2003, and the 1Ds2 was available by November 2004. The single model increment was modest, and I carried on with the 1Ds for my commercial work until the 1Ds3 arrived in November 2007.

Given that the info I had pointed to an early 2015 announcement for both (the late 2014 1D X2 was only a 'possibility) I'd not expect you to be able to get a 1D X mk2 for perhaps a year.. a long while to go without the 1D X.

As something more than 6 months out, such rumours automatically get my biggest 'pinch of salt' rating on Northlight - keep the 1D X and use it! ;-)


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 23, 2014)

keithcooper said:


> KKCFamilyman said:
> 
> 
> > Makes me wonder if I should return my 1dx and wait since I have the time.
> ...



Hi Keith, it's great to see you posting here. Your Northlight website has been an inspiration and an education, especially your printer reviews. 

Unfortunatly, there is an insanity which occurrs when Canon releases a new batch of DSLR's. Fire sales occurr and everyone clammours for the newest and greatest. There's a common belief that their beloved camera will suddenly be obsolete and there unable to take any more pictures of a reputatble quality. So what's the best a 1DX II will offer over a 1DX? A few extra mega pixels? A few stops of DR? A few more FPS? In the light of the rest of this camera's capabilities, these are mild or warm upgrades regardless of what the hype will have us believe. There is also a belief / fear that the second hand value of their cams will instantly spiral as soon as a new model is released. Which is not true, the resale value it proportionate to how long the model has been in the market, how many of them are on the market and how clean / abused the camera is. 
Look at the S/H price of 1d4 and 1dsIII cams....still a hefty price considering their age. Sure, you;re bot going to get anywhere near the new price for the camera, especially if you paid top dollar for it when the 1DX was first released. But it's still going to be worth more on the S/H market than a new 5DIII.


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## keithcooper (Jun 23, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> R1-7D said:
> 
> 
> > Looking at the Northlight website and going back quite a few months there seems to be a lot of "throw mud at the wall and see if it sticks" going on.
> ...



Nor for that matter, do I ...and there is no 'they' at Northlight, just me, if you don't mind ;-) 

Solid rumours I'd put any money on come along very rarely. I personally discount almost anything that's more than 4 months out from an announcement.

If I waited to be absolutely certain, the pages would be very thin indeed (as they would here at CR) - they are rumours I'm sent - often anonymous.

Much like Craig here, I get sent a lot of stuff so 'out there' that we don't mention it 

...one day a long detailed note of Canon's future plans and technology may come along, but I think we'll have a long long wait.


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## pedro (Jun 23, 2014)

Keith, I like your page and I like every rumor out of it ;-) As well as Craig's. 

I got a slightly different question, off topic in a certain sense: 
*What are the two of you thinking about the next 6D? *
Currently shooting mostly nightsky (MF via 10x LV), otherwise using center AF point only, the 6D would absolutely "do" for me somehow. It came out shortly after I purchased the 5D3, things happen that way ;-) 

The only hesitation I have with the 6D is that it doesn't offer a CF-card slot. 
Is this likely to happen with an upcoming outing sometime after these rumored upper level cams?

If so, I might go for one, although the 5D3 is a perfect allrounder and I will keep it until a 5DV appears, if it doesn't break or anything like that.


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## keithcooper (Jun 23, 2014)

pedro said:


> Keith, I like your page and I like every rumor out of it ;-) As well Craig's.
> 
> I got another question: What do the two of you think about the 6D. Currently shooting mostly nightsky, the 6D would absolutely "do" for me. It came out shortly after I purchased the 5D3, things happen that way ;-) The only hesitation I have with the 6D is that it doesn't offer a CF-card slot. Is this likely to happen with an upcoming outing sometime after these rumored upper level cams?
> 
> If so, I might go for one, although the 5D3 is a perfect allrounder and I will keep it until a 5DV appears, if it doesn't break or anything like that.


Thanks! 

The 6D2 is something I've heard nothing about. I note that it was announced in September 2012 and that the first real mention of something was only 4-5 months before it came out. So, if you pick Sept. 2015, then not a lot is likely for a year or so, although once a 5D4 appears, attention will switch to what is 'next' in the lineup.

I'd note as an aside, that all the most reliable rumours I've had over the years have come from people happy to use their names. Much like forum posts, my consideration tends to be biased more positively towards people willing to step out of the shadows ;-)


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## docsmith (Jun 23, 2014)

Rumor seems like natural conjecture based on the potential "revolutionary" sensor tech rumor of the 7D. So, it may be one of those rumors based on a rumor. 

But, three years is reasonable, just a bit earlier than I was expecting. It may depend on how "revolutionary" the new 7D tech is. My guess, we are looking at late 2015 or early 2016 for the 5DIV and 1DXII. The 5DIII is all I need, but a 8 fps, and another stop of ISO performance and I'll probably upgrade. 

As for other areas of possible improvement, there is a good list going, just to add....how about making all AF points cross type, more (all?) f/2.8 and AF with f/8.

If the 5D series is the "wedding camera" I can see the f/2.8. The f/8 may be more for "wildlife" cameras like the 7D and 1D series.


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## Martin_A (Jun 23, 2014)

An internal 1TB SSD drive and a Thunderbolt port... : : :


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## Menace (Jun 23, 2014)

Built in USB3.0 please.


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## expatinasia (Jun 23, 2014)

Martin_A said:


> An internal 1TB SSD drive and a Thunderbolt port... : : :



1TB internal SSD! Why? I take my pics off camera at the end of every day, and if I can't for whatever reason there is plenty of space on the 224 GB on CF cards in my camera bag.

I do agree with either USB 3.0 (is 3.1 out yet?) or thunderbolt. Anything fast.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 23, 2014)

Martin_A said:


> An internal 1TB SSD drive and a Thunderbolt port... : : :



Thunderbolt???
Do you mean that largely unsupported proprietry interface which only some Apple machines seem to be using?
Surely USB 3.0 is the way to go. Far more general support, even Apple is starting to adopt it as a format.


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## pedro (Jun 23, 2014)

docsmith said:


> Rumor seems like natural conjecture based on the potential "revolutionary" sensor tech rumor of the 7D. So, it may be one of those rumors based on a rumor.
> 
> But, three years is reasonable, just a bit earlier than I was expecting. It may depend on how "revolutionary" the new 7D tech is. My guess, we are looking at late 2015 or early 2016 for the 5DIV and 1DXII. The 5DIII is all I need, but a 8 fps, *and another stop of ISO performance* and I'll probably upgrade.
> 
> ...



*Yes, docsmith!* Another stop of ISO improvement would be VERY welcome. 51k like my 20-25k on the 5D3 now. But I guess that this depends on MP count, fast digic(s) and wether Canon are willing to do it or not. But as mirrorless cams (Sony A7s) get great high ISO specs (understanding that it is a 12 MP sensor) Canon might seem to be kind of forced to equip especially their higher end models accordingly...No need for ISO 204k on a future 5D. But really improved ISO 12.8k to 51k is on my wishlist. Either in a 5DIV or a 5DV.


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## unfocused (Jun 23, 2014)

This really depends on just how revolutionary any new sensor technology introduced with the 7DII actually is.

DPAF was pretty significant, but not so much so that it caused a major disruption in the market, where everything without it was seen as obsolete. 

It would take an incredible advancement in sensor tech to force Canon to rush 5DIII and 1DX replacements to market. On the one hand, it's very difficult to imagine any 7DII advancement of that magnitude. On the other hand, it's always risky to bet against the future when it comes to technological advancements.

I will hope we see that kind of advancement, but I will bet that we won't.


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## AvTvM (Jun 23, 2014)

unfocused said:


> ... On the one hand, it's very difficult to imagine any 7DII advancement of that magnitude. On the other hand, it's always risky to bet against the future when it comes to technological advancements.
> 
> I will hope we see that kind of advancement, but I will bet that we won't.



well, 24 MP at least 1 stop improvement for Noise, Banding and DR ... throughout entire ISO Range should be simple enough ... otherwise Canon should just purchase Nikon 7100 from Toshiba and put DPAF in an improved version (vs. 70D) on it. 

We shall see ... ;D


----------



## Lee Jay (Jun 23, 2014)

keithcooper said:


> Solid rumours I'd put any money on come along very rarely. I personally discount almost anything that's more than 4 months out from an announcement.



I still can't fathom why the camera makers are so secretive, when companies like Intel and Microsoft provide roadmaps into future announcements.


----------



## AvTvM (Jun 23, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> keithcooper said:
> 
> 
> > Solid rumours I'd put any money on come along very rarely. I personally discount almost anything that's more than 4 months out from an announcement.
> ...



+1000

Actually most camera makers are handing out roadmaps when they announce new camera/lens systems like EOS-M and EF-M. 

Definitely Fuji (X-mount), Panasonic (mFT), Olympus (FT and mFT), Samsung (NX), Sony (NEX/E-mount and A7/FE-mount) have done so. 

Nikon, Canon and Leica however are totally caught up in customer-unfriendly, arrogant behavioral patterns.


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## Jan van Holten (Jun 23, 2014)

Hopefully it's possible to put the new sensor in the ''old'' 1DX. If worthwile of course.


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## vscd (Jun 23, 2014)

The roadmap sounds plausible for me. Just expand the schedule to the future and a new 5DM4 is right in time. The 1DX should be fine for the moment.. I don't think that the new 1D will arive before the 5D.







I wouldn't mind to get down to 16 or 18 MPixel again, just with 2 Stops more dynamic. The new Sony A7S is the right direction in my opinion, if it wouldn't be Sony


----------



## NancyP (Jun 23, 2014)

Why would you need CF on a 6D?
I am pretty happy with the 6D and don't plan to replace it soon. It is a landscape/ all around camera.


----------



## mrsfotografie (Jun 23, 2014)

sanj said:


> R1-7D said:
> 
> 
> > A bit early in the update cycle if true when compared to previous updates maybe? I would think it would be later in 2015 that replacements are possibly announced with closer to 2016 with an actual release if there will be updates.
> ...



Not quite if you consider this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras


----------



## keithcooper (Jun 23, 2014)

vscd said:


> The roadmap sounds plausible for me. Just expand the schedule to the future and a new 5DM4 is right in time. The 1DX should be fine for the moment.. I don't think that the new 1D will arive before the 5D.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That graphic is an old one copied from the Northlight site - I update the original every quarter ;-)

Current one is at:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/rumours.html#canon_timeline


----------



## unfocused (Jun 23, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > ... On the one hand, it's very difficult to imagine any 7DII advancement of that magnitude. On the other hand, it's always risky to bet against the future when it comes to technological advancements.
> ...



Sorry, but that reads like a drive-by generic comment, rather than an actual response to my post. 

Perhaps without realizing it, you are proving my point: 

The changes you reference are evolutionary, not so revolutionary as to impact sales of either the 5DIII or the 1DX. Canon's full-frame DSLRs are outselling their competition by a wide margin. 

They are under no competitive pressure to update any of their full frame models. Since the pressure is not coming from the outside, the only reason to update would be internal pressure and that would require a truly revolutionary advancement. 

If Canon releases a 24 MP 7DII with the improvements you suggest, that would be nice – but it's not going to suddenly cause 5DIII and 1DX sales to tank (doubtful it's going to even hurt 6D sales). 

This thread is all about Canon making such an incredible advancement in sensor tech with the 7DII that they feel they must incorporate those advancements immediately into the 5DIII and the 1DX. 

I repeat (this time with emphasis added for the reading-challenged): I *hope* we see that kind of advancement, but I *bet* that we won't. (And, if anyone needs further explanation, that is *not* a dig at Canon, but rather skepticism that such an advancement is on the horizon and may not even be possible.)


----------



## R1-7D (Jun 23, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > R1-7D said:
> ...



Again, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, the fact that no 1D utilizes crop sensors may have an effect on the production cycle of their lineup. I might be wrong, but I'm sure investing in creating new full frame sensors is a lot more costly and time consuming than developing smaller sensors. 

Even Nikon's new D4s is not an entirely new sensor from what I've read, despite their marketing gymnastics. Not taking anything away from their camera, it's still a beast; but so is the 1DX. A new design isn't needed yet.


----------



## dolina (Jun 23, 2014)

What we have to keep in mind is that Canon/Nikon will only upgrade their lenses & bodies under these conditions.

1) Rival company updates their offering

and/or

2) Major sporting event like the Summer/Winter Olympics & FIFA World Cup.

===

Now, the first condition has been fulfilled with the D4s but could be countered via Firmware upgrade. Like what happened with the the ones for the 7D & 5D3.

As for major sporting events the next ones are the 2016 Sumner Games in Brazil, 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia and 2018 Winter Games in Korea.

I dont know of any major sporting event in 2015 so my bet is the new 1-Series body will be out sometime in 2016.

To be honest Canon should've done something way back in October 2014 for the 1DX. Updating a 1-Series body next year makes little to no sense to me.

As for a 5D3 replacement next year makes lotsa sense to me based on past product lifecycle.

7D being replaced by September makes sense to me. A body that hasnt been updated in nearly 5 years is not the norm.

I do wonder whether all these single digit bodies will incorporate 4K video and/or a replacement to CF cards in the form of CFast. Fastest CF card on the market now is 1066x which is near the 1100x limit. CFast can be had at 3333x today.

BTW getting hot and bothered over a rumor is very irrational. They're rumors for a reason. 



R1-7D said:


> The roadmap for the 1DX update might be a bit different than previous 1D cameras; the biggest difference is there is no crop sensor anymore. It's a reasonable assumption that developing a full frame sensor takes more resources and is therefore less likely to receive as frequent updates as in the past when compared to previous 1D models. Of course, this is just an assumption.
> 
> In my own opinion of the matter, what's the point of rushing an update? Nikon just updated their D4 with the D4s, but the 1DX is still arguably current and still has superior frame rate, autofocus and resolution. It's also selling better than Nikon's offering. No point in updating if you don't have to.
> 
> ...


----------



## kurtj29 (Jun 23, 2014)

Can't wait to start reading how the 1DX and 5DMkIII can't autofocus - you can buy a used one, but your keeper rate is going to be so low and the IQ is just terrible.

I guess I have to be ready to throw my 1DMk4 in the trash because it will probably just stop taking pictures when the new camera's are announced.


----------



## Lee Jay (Jun 23, 2014)

unfocused said:


> This thread is all about Canon making such an incredible advancement in sensor tech with the 7DII that they feel they must incorporate those advancements immediately into the 5DIII and the 1DX.
> 
> I repeat (this time with emphasis added for the reading-challenged): I *hope* we see that kind of advancement, but I *bet* that we won't. (And, if anyone needs further explanation, that is *not* a dig at Canon, but rather skepticism that such an advancement is on the horizon and may not even be possible.)



If Canon can somehow extract a 1-stop improvement from the 7D sensor, that would put their top-of-the-line crop camera about on-par with their top-of-the-line full-frame cameras as far as pure sensor image quality goes. That might be a bit embarrassing if they don't move pretty quickly to port that technology to the full-frame world to allow those cameras to regain the 1 1/3 stop advantage they get from just the geometry of a larger sensor. It might also stem the tide of people doing exactly what I was doing this morning, and figuring out what it would take for me to migrate my current full-frame lens system to an all-crop body environment (it's no where near as bad as it sounds, but it's not the greatest either).


----------



## dolina (Jun 23, 2014)

One constant I know and most people tend to forget is that all replacements of the current lens/product will always will be better than the one they replace except for 1 aspect.

Namely, the introductory price.

;D


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 23, 2014)

hmmmmmm...while i won't put much stock in the time table here (still thinking any refresh in the 1 and 5 series line will be as most say, closer to 2016 or in 2016), knowing that the cost will be at least the same as the 5d3 launch price (probably more), I'd say its a safe bet to start setting some cash aside! 

We shall see though. while i think the time table is off, I can for sure see the logic in hitting the refresh button sooner than expected if this new sensor in the 7d2 is as improved as the rumors hint at....


----------



## unfocused (Jun 23, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > This thread is all about Canon making such an incredible advancement in sensor tech with the 7DII that they feel they must incorporate those advancements immediately into the 5DIII and the 1DX.
> ...



The key word is *"if"*. Others who know more than I do about physics and sensor design have written extensively on this forum about the difficulty (some might say near impossibility) of achieving a full stop improvement from an APS-C sensor. 

Frankly, I'd be very surprised if that is where Canon is going with APS-C. I believe they will play to the strengths of each format. High ISO sensitivity for full frame sensors, high resolution (more megapixels and thus more effective "reach") for APS-C. 

I've often referenced what I see as Canon's two-body strategy for growth in a market that is becoming saturated. I suspect they have looked at their DSLR buyers and determined that the largest untapped DSLR customer base is single-body owners that can be converted to two bodies – one in each format. I still believe we will see a higher megapixel 7D with only slight improvements in ISO performance.


----------



## Tugela (Jun 23, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Why would you need CF on a 6D?
> I am pretty happy with the 6D and don't plan to replace it soon. It is a landscape/ all around camera.



Because they used CF in the stone age and therefore it is indispensable, and no one can do without it.

Storage is storage, I'm not sure what the big deal is about. The only criteria is how fast it is, not legacy support for old media from obsolete cameras.


----------



## jdramirez (Jun 23, 2014)

kurtj29 said:


> Can't wait to start reading how the 1DX and 5DMkIII can't autofocus - you can buy a used one, but your keeper rate is going to be so low and the IQ is just terrible.
> 
> I guess I have to be ready to throw my 1DMk4 in the trash because it will probably just stop taking pictures when the new camera's are announced.



I think of the 5d mkiii a bit like my wife. I can upgrade at a price... I don't need a new wife... would I like a new wife to spice things up... sure... but the wife at present is not only adequate, but very good...


----------



## ashmadux (Jun 23, 2014)

So far off, barely even worth thinking about it. its not even july 14. and Canons 2015 is 2017 in the real world.

Why dont we see that they do with the next rebel...sure to be cut down in every way possible to avoid encroach the 70d.


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## dolina (Jun 23, 2014)

CF cards will be replaced by CFast cards when less compressed 4K video becomes the norm.

It could show up in the next 1D, 5D, 7D or any other body that uses CF cards.

CF cards are limited to *1,140x* (UDMA 7; 167MB/s).

SDXC version 4.0 cards are limited to *2,130x* (UHS-II; 312MB/s).

CFast cards are limited to* 4,096x* (SATA III; 600MB/s).

XQD version 2.0 cards are limited to *6,826x* (PCI Express 3.0; 1,000MB/s).

XQD on paper is a better solution as the speed is limited to PCI Express rather than SATA but it is only used on bodies from Nikon and Sony. CFast has support from Canon and Phase One.



Tugela said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > Why would you need CF on a 6D?
> ...


----------



## Tugela (Jun 23, 2014)

unfocused said:


> They are under no competitive pressure to update any of their full frame models. Since the pressure is not coming from the outside, the only reason to update would be internal pressure and that would require a truly revolutionary advancement.



The purpose of updating is to ensure that competitive pressure does not develop in the first place, not to respond to pressure that has developed. If you wait for pressure to develop you are effectively ceding market share to your competitors, giving them a foothold, and if you want to stay top dog it is in your best interests to see that does not happen.

As soon as you start operating reactively rather than proactively, you have already lost the game.


----------



## vscd (Jun 23, 2014)

Those are theoretical numbers. Remember the downhill after the Canon 60D got a SD-Card Slot, they never catched up again to his predecessor with CF-Card (Canon 50D). On the Cards I always read high Transferrates, but on the field the CF-Cards never let me down. The SD-Cards did. And they are too fragile.

I think a CFast could be a new standard, but it would be nice if I could use my old Cards in the same slot, too.


----------



## Arkarch (Jun 23, 2014)

CF or CFast. As long as it is reliable. Working as a software developer, I dont trust SD. As a photographer, certainly not to hold my photos even for the day. 

USB 3.0. Nice. I normally drop the Card in a USB 3.0 standalone reader and transfer. 

Announcement timing - Perhaps they have held back the 7DII until they were closer to having the full frame sensor version ready. 

For me, I really want to move to two full-frame bodies for sports work. Having a full and a crop as I do now confuses my lens lineup for sports. Even with the 7DII - unless it is spectacular - I am more likely to pursue a 1DX as it meets my needs. If its coming rapidly, I could hold up a bit. Only a 7DII better than a 1DX gets me looking again at crop. And crop does not help me with landscape when I have a full. So yeah, a phenomenal new sensor in a 7DII frustrates me as I want to see it in full frame almost immediately.


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## steliosk (Jun 23, 2014)

5D4 wish list
=========

- fix ISO 200 and make it look like ISO 100 (highlight tone priority shots looks noisy when enabled)
- faster SD card slot
- dual SD (get rid of that ancient and expensive CF)
- and yes.. MORE DR please.. kill that banding in the shadows, buy sensors from Sony for Christ sake as nikon does.
- more mp like 40mp (and 20mp mRAW) that those great lenses such as 24-70 2.8 II, 70-200 2.8 II and 16-35 f/4 can handle!

i'd pay for such a hardware.. i wouldn't for something less since i own the 5D3, honestly? what the point?


----------



## assassin11 (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> I dont know of any major sporting event in 2015 so my bet is the new 1-Series body will be out sometime in 2016.




Would the 2015 Pam am games in Toronto be considered a major sporting event?


----------



## vscd (Jun 24, 2014)

steliosk said:


> - faster SD card slot
> - dual SD (get rid of that ancient and expensive CF)



Your position. Hopefully they won't do that.



> - and yes.. MORE DR please.. kill that banding in the shadows, buy sensors from Sony for Christ sake as nikon does.
> - more mp like 40mp (and 20mp mRAW) that those great lenses such as 24-70 2.8 II, 70-200 2.8 II and 16-35 f/4 can handle!



Why do you need a Canon, just grab the latest Nikon with your fancy Toshiba/Sony/Whatsoever-Sensor and get lucky. I don't understand why you bought a 5DM3 when everything inside is wrong for you, even the Memorycard.

You'll get an equally good 24-70 or [email protected] And who needs 40MPixel? Get a Pano-tool. Understand it. Use it.

P.S. I'm glad that there are companies out there who invent their own sensors, like Sigma or Canon.


----------



## Bruce Photography (Jun 24, 2014)

Just one more year and we might come out with something.....


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## R1-7D (Jun 24, 2014)

assassin11 said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know of any major sporting event in 2015 so my bet is the new 1-Series body will be out sometime in 2016.
> ...



No.


----------



## expatinasia (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> As for major sporting events the next ones are the 2016 Sumner Games in Brazil, 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia and 2018 Winter Games in Korea.
> 
> I dont know of any major sporting event in 2015 so my bet is the new 1-Series body will be out sometime in 2016.



The Rugby World Cup is a truly massive sporting event, and will take place in 2015. It will take place in England. I can't wait, as am already looking forward to it!!! ;D

In fact from memory the RWC is only beaten by FIFA World Cup and the Olympics in terms of viewership. Massive. Come on England!!! ;D


----------



## assassin11 (Jun 24, 2014)

expatinasia said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > As for major sporting events the next ones are the 2016 Sumner Games in Brazil, 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia and 2018 Winter Games in Korea.
> ...



World cup of Cricket also happens early 2015. Thats three major events in 2015!


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 24, 2014)

assassin11 said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...


and the Constance Bay Ice Fishing tournament. That makes four!


----------



## assassin11 (Jun 24, 2014)

R1-7D said:


> assassin11 said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...




1Ds Mark III was announced in August 2007, just weeks after the 2007 Pan Am Games in Rio. The Canon EOS-1D X was announced in October 2011 during the Pan AM games in Guadalajara. Just saying.


----------



## jdramirez (Jun 24, 2014)

I feel as though everyone gets their hopes up about WHAT SHOULD BE in the new body... and then when it comes out well below the wishlist, people's hopes are crestfallen... I don't want to say yall are setting yourself up for disappointment... but I think that is the case.

Maybe there is a new sensor... with dual pixel since they haven't integrated it into the mkiii's firmware, and maybe gps, 4K vid, and wifi... and a price tag of $4000... So... maybe... we should curb our enthusiasm


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 24, 2014)

Tugela said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > They are under no competitive pressure to update any of their full frame models. Since the pressure is not coming from the outside, the only reason to update would be internal pressure and that would require a truly revolutionary advancement.
> ...


----------



## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm with you vscd. No matter how convenient it may be to find a SDXC card they're currently limited to speeds of 2,130x while CFast is limited to 4,096x. It would be incredibly shortsighted of Canon to do such a thing to the 5D3 replacement.

Although I can see a faster SD & dual SD being done on a 6D replacement.

P2 cards must RAID SD cards with an LSI controller within a PC card enclosure to reach read/write speeds acceptable to electronic news-gathering applications. I only mention P2 cards to demo how slow these SD and its succsors arecards are within a pro-level application. CFast was designed to take on P2 cards.



vscd said:


> steliosk said:
> 
> 
> > - faster SD card slot
> ...



As for the sporting events in 2015... you guys made me LOLz at your definition of major sporting events. All the sporting events mentioned are as massive as the NBA. )


----------



## expatinasia (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> As for the sporting events in 2015... you guys made me LOLz at your definition of major sporting events. All the sporting events mentioned are as massive as the NBA. )



The Rugby World Cup is a truly massive event, much, much bigger than the NBA. Check out the stats, from memory it is only just behind FIFA World Cup and Olympics.


----------



## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

expatinasia said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > As for the sporting events in 2015... you guys made me LOLz at your definition of major sporting events. All the sporting events mentioned are as massive as the NBA. )
> ...


Is it bigger than Eurocup or Formula 1?


----------



## expatinasia (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...



It only takes place every four years so to compare to F1 would be wrong, as there seems to be one of those every month.

As for Eurocup, no idea. I guess it would depend on who is playing. But you mentioned 2015, and to say that there is no big global event would just be wrong.

Of course, here in Asia it is only really Japan and Korea, as well as Hong Kong that are any good at it.

Here are some stats from the RWC:

The tournament is one of the largest international sporting events in the world, surpassed in scale only by the FIFA World Cup, the Olympics, and the Tour de France. The first World Cup, in 1987, had a cumulative world television audience of 300 million; its successor, the 1991 event in England, reached 1.75 billion. South Africa's 1995 tournament reached 2.67 billion, and the 1999 Welsh-hosted event reached 3 billion. The 2003 tournament had a cumulative world television audience of 3.5 billion, and the final, between Australia and England, became the most watched rugby union match in the history of Australian television. The event was broadcast in 205 countries. The 2007 tournament had a cumulative world television audience of 4 billion.


----------



## adhocphotographer (Jun 24, 2014)

I will be good to buy a 5D MK IV around the start of 2016, so this time line is good for me... it comes out, I buy it once the price settles, issues are resolved and reviews are out!


----------



## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

expatinasia said:


> It only takes place every four years so to compare to F1 would be wrong, as there seems to be one of those every month.
> 
> As for Eurocup, no idea. I guess it would depend on who is playing. But you mentioned 2015, and to say that there is no big global event would just be wrong.
> 
> ...



Any which way I hope the 1D X and 5D III replacement arrives sooner than later. My 1D4 and 5D2 are getting long on the tooth.


----------



## R1-7D (Jun 24, 2014)

assassin11 said:


> R1-7D said:
> 
> 
> > assassin11 said:
> ...



See bold for your answer.


----------



## R1-7D (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > It only takes place every four years so to compare to F1 would be wrong, as there seems to be one of those every month.
> ...



Then upgrade. Both current models offer a substantial gain. The 5D3 has usable ISO up to 25,600. The 5D2 was at its limit at 6400 in RAW. 

2016 is my prediction. Your 5D2 will be practically archaic by then.


----------



## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

R1-7D said:


> Then upgrade. Both current models offer a substantial gain. The 5D3 has usable ISO up to 25,600. The 5D2 was at its limit at 6400 in RAW.
> 
> 2016 is my prediction. Your 5D2 will be practically archaic by then.


I prefer to buy gear within the first calendar year of introduction. I do not enjoy buying gear within the last calendar year of production. Unless it is substantially discounted.

This is my preference.


----------



## expatinasia (Jun 24, 2014)

True but this is only speculation. Not even CR2.

If I were you I would get the best on the market now Dolina and enjoy it, rather than speculate as to when a new 1D X may, or may not come out. They are available for around US$ 5,000 now. Great deal.


----------



## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

expatinasia said:


> True but this is only speculation. Not even CR2.
> 
> If I were you I would get the best on the market now Dolina and enjoy it, rather than speculate as to when a new 1D X may, or may not come out. They are available for around US$ 5,000 now. Great deal.


My timeline for product release is based on my personal assessment. I only use CR & NL to either validate or invalidate my speculations. Most of these rumors are based on online wishful thinking if I may be so bold to say.

I could actually get it lower than $5,000 but you'll have to buy it in South East Asia. Again, I do not mind waiting. I do not derive any income from photography.

On CF cards: I am unloading all my 13 old CF cards and converting the proceeds of the sale to 4 newer, faster and larger ones. My guess is that the transition to CFast will be within 24 months and when it does start the value of older CF cards will quickly drop. When I do transition to bodies using CFast I think I can get better value for four 64GB 800x cards. Another motive for the sale is that I have difficulty keeping track of them. To illustrate I found one CF card that has photos from 2010.

In preparation for the introduction of the 7D Mark II I already have buyers for my 7D. Based on the technlogies in the 1D X, 5D3, 6D, 70D, 700D, 100D, 1200D and even M2 it will be flagship APS-C body with all the technological trimmings one could ever wish for. It will outdo anything Nikon or Sony has in the market.


----------



## keithcooper (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> My timeline for product release is based on my personal assessment. I only use CR & NL to either validate or invalidate my speculations. Most of these rumors are based on online wishful thinking if I may be so bold to say.


Be bold - I'd very much agree!

Remember that what you see here and at NL has had a bit of a 'plausibility filter' (YMMV) applied too ;-)


----------



## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

keithcooper said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > My timeline for product release is based on my personal assessment. I only use CR & NL to either validate or invalidate my speculations. Most of these rumors are based on online wishful thinking if I may be so bold to say.
> ...


Not to mention conjecture based on past product cycles, sporting events and product releases of rival companies.

I even joined this forum so I can have some fun conversations. BTW Keith no plans in opening your own forum? NL is the grandfather of all Canon & Epson rumors on the web.

For lens rumours I notice most stories are brought about by marketing age, wishful thinking, sporting events and product releases of rival companies.

These are the lenses I look forward being updated within 12 months. Although I doubt these will be updated this soon as they sell too well.

EF 35mm f/1.4L USM
EF 50mm f/1.2L USM
EF 135mm f/2L USM
EF 400mm f/5.6L USM
EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM


----------



## keithcooper (Jun 24, 2014)

>>Not to mention conjecture based on past product cycles, sporting events and product releases of rival companies.

Rumourologist 1st class - your certificate is in the post ;-)
You'd (perhaps not) be surprised at how many miss this...

>> I even joined this forum so I can have some fun conversations. BTW Keith no plans in opening your own forum? NL is the grandfather of all Canon & Epson rumors on the web.

I thought about it for the 'serious' side of the site (B&W, printing, photography, colour management) but the admin duties would be too onerous, not to mention I'd prefer that it would be a 'real names only' style of forum with no anonymous posts. Probably not that popular on a rumours forum ;-) As it is, I run the Digital B&W group on LinkedIn. Not as flexible as I'd like, but very easy to look after.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> Not to mention conjecture based on past product cycles (...)



Really the only guideline useable. Not that's its fail safe. But seems to be useful to gauge updates more than anything else. Here's my D-series timeline,

AUG 2005 5D

+ 37 Months

SEP 2008 5DII

+ 42 Months

MAR 2012 5DIII

So far 27 Months

+[37 Months = JUL 2015 ??] 5DIV ??
+[42 Months = DEC 2015 ??] 5DIV ??

So, still hoping for a 5DIV announcement at the end of this year. May of course come JAN to not hurt X-mas sales. Also, I do see the time line for the 5DIII as being shorter than for the 5DII as it was more an all-around upgrade/refinement while the 5DII marked a technical breakthrough. Especially if the rumor of a new sensor type come to life.


----------



## trstromme (Jun 24, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> keithcooper said:
> 
> 
> > Solid rumours I'd put any money on come along very rarely. I personally discount almost anything that's more than 4 months out from an announcement.
> ...


Because these are two very different industries when you look at their markets; 
Intel (especially)
The regular customer doesn't buy much direct from them. Have you ever bought just a CPU or SSD directly from Intel? (you might have, I don't think I'm much mistaken when I say that a very minor minority do..) Compare that with the companies that Intel sell their stuff to: HP, Dell, Apple, IBM, Lenovo, etc.etc.. they design and build solution around the "raw materials" that Intel provide. Your laptop; a small number of parts are from Intel, the integration of all the components is done by makers of motherboards, software etc. etc.
Low margins, but MASSIVE volume is their game.
Microsoft, much the same; their software enables design possibilities for HW and SW makers. (it is only recently that Microsoft moved into the HW space, for various reasons (such as providing a blueprint/best practice implementation, larger control of end product (like apple) etc. etc.
The products that Intel and Microsoft define in their road maps are coming years down the line, when the products are ready they need all their partners to have finished solutions in place to act as a market for them.

Compare these models, where the companies you mention are producers of raw materials. (abstracted to the essential IMHO) to Canon or Nikon; they integrate technology acquired either inhouse or from third parties (memory, ARM cores, materials etc.etc.) and sell an end-user ready product. 
Canon and Nikon also have such large product bases where they cover almost everything; from camera bodies, lenses, flashes etc. and they provide this to the end user in a readily integrated and assembled form.
They don't necessarily need to publish a road map, for them I would believe it to be a competitive disadvantage; you have less of a chance to surprise the market and upend your competitors. And I'm sure too that from a financial point of view if you don't deliver on your road map then investors and markets will punish you.
Canon/Nikon do not need to provide a road map, like smaller vendors, they don't need to convince the market that they have a plan and are in it for the long run. They do not need to convince potential customers in order to create a market; they already have one. (And yes there are various angles that could be debated here; for instance a road map for EOS-M, IMHO that could possibly be nice, because the system might need a clear direction to get most people to come on board and make an investment apart from the body and kit lens (though that might not be desired target demographic for them..))
If Canon/Nikon published a road map for bodies, features, lenses that would be helping their competitors who could upend the road map by providing better/cheaper/more attractive features than the stated road map. So far Canon and Nikon's competitors are playing catch-up to the big two. But in order to do that they need to provide system road maps that says that we will provide you with the tools you need in the future. Were there a road map from Sony saying: "we'll introduce full-frame mirrorless cameras in tiny tiny bodies soon?" I don't think so, but once there they needed to provide assurance that there is a plan for creating a viable set of tools.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/trondstromme/


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## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

Keith goes to show how much time I shamelessly spend online. 



Maiaibing said:


> Really the only guideline useable. Not that's its fail safe. But seems to be useful to gauge updates more than anything else. Here's my D-series timeline,
> 
> AUG 2005 5D
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that announcement dates do not translate to the first shipment received.

Like say the 5D Mark II. I do recall that was the announcement date but I know the first shipment of bodies arrived after Christmas and before New Years of that year.

Same with the 1D Mark IV where in shipment in Europe first arrived in December but in South East Asia I remember it to be in nearing the end of January. I got my copy before any Canon Ambassador/Explorer of Light/Product Endorser got theirs and I understand they were not exactly happy about it. But then again I had mine reserved since 2009. 

Thank you BTW for supporting my assessment that 2015 will be a dry year for 5D and 1D replacements. Other than no major sporting events of the caliber of the Olympics or World Cup there is the thing about product life cycles.

If I do recall correctly Canon/Nikon tend to release new gear half a year before the major sporting event happens. So Maia's suggestion of either a July or December announcement would work as Rio 2016 falls on August 2016.



trstromme said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > keithcooper said:
> ...



Companies are secretive because of the Osborne effect.

Those who have access to the product timelines are photo news agencies that tend to buy in bulk and sign NDAs. These orgs and others who sign NDAs tend to be the ones who leak to Keith and Craig. 

Now for a bit of trivia about the 1-Series. The product line makes up but 1% of all produced EOS bodies. Canon bulk sells em to photo news agencies and the rest goes to individual working and non-working photogs.


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## expatinasia (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> Thank you BTW for supporting my assessment that 2015 will be a dry year for 5D and 1D replacements. Other than no major sporting events of the caliber of the Olympics or World Cup there is the thing about product life cycles.August 2016.



I must say that I find it a little amusing that on a rumour site where you are giving your opinion of a theory with regards to the future 5D and 1D product line from Canon, that you ignore two of the world's largest sporting events.

Cricket World Cup:
http://www.icc-cricket.com/cricket-world-cup

and the Rugby World Cup:
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/

They may not be sports that are popular in the Philippines, a country I love, but I can assure you they are right up there with FIFA World Cup and Olympics.

But we already discussed that earlier in the thread. It is always easy to theorise when you select which facts to omit, ignore or manipulate.


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## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

Too lazy to argue my point further. So I will conceed that Rugby and Cricket are equal to the World Cup and Olympics. I do this because I am lazy. ;D



expatinasia said:


> I must say that I find it a little amusing that on a rumour site where you are giving your opinion of a theory with regards to the future 5D and 1D product line from Canon, that you ignore two of the world's largest sporting events.
> 
> Cricket World Cup:
> http://www.icc-cricket.com/cricket-world-cup
> ...


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## expatinasia (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> Too lazy to argue my point further. So I will conceed that Rugby and Cricket are equal to the World Cup and Olympics. I do this because I am lazy. ;D



The Cricket World Cup and Rugby World Cup, not just the sports in general. These are major global sporting events with viewers in the *b*illions. Fact.

And I doubt you are lazy, it just adds nothing to your theory when you dismiss such important events out of hand.

Anyway, back to the 1D X ii and 5D iv. ;D


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## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

You're right. I'm not lazy. I'm just groggy. Night!



expatinasia said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > Too lazy to argue my point further. So I will conceed that Rugby and Cricket are equal to the World Cup and Olympics. I do this because I am lazy. ;D
> ...


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## AvTvM (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> In preparation for the introduction of the 7D Mark II I already have buyers for my 7D. Based on the technlogies in the 1D X, 5D3, 6D, 70D, 700D, 100D, 1200D and even M2 it will be flagship APS-C body with all the technological trimmings one could ever wish for. It will outdo anything Nikon or Sony has in the market.



LOL. ;D


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## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > In preparation for the introduction of the 7D Mark II I already have buyers for my 7D. Based on the technlogies in the 1D X, 5D3, 6D, 70D, 700D, 100D, 1200D and even M2 it will be flagship APS-C body with all the technological trimmings one could ever wish for. It will outdo anything Nikon or Sony has in the market.
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 24, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > In preparation for the introduction of the 7D Mark II I already have buyers for my 7D. Based on the technlogies in the 1D X, 5D3, 6D, 70D, 700D, 100D, 1200D and even M2 it will be flagship APS-C body with all the technological trimmings one could ever wish for. It will outdo anything Nikon or Sony has in the market.
> ...



Laugh if you like, he is most likely correct. The 7D was the pinnacle of the APS-C segment, too. You do realize we're talking about *cameras*, not just sensors, right? :


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## Lee Jay (Jun 24, 2014)

trstromme said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > keithcooper said:
> ...



Okay, then why do automobile companies do something quite similar, and telegraph their model replacements or refreshes usually more than a year in advance, and their technologies many years in advance?


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## Don Haines (Jun 24, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...


+1

By far, the most important aspect of getting a good picture (after the photographer) is the AF system. As I am fond of saying, who cares what the DR is of a blurry picture  The 7D was king of the APS-C cameras for 5 years with it's balance of features and even now, it is arguable if the 70D is better... (I think it is)


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## Don Haines (Jun 24, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> trstromme said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...


Car makers are a stagnant market with very little change from year to year.... mostly cosmetic changes. No real surprises anywhere... As a point in case, with pickup trucks the big thing this year is GM with a step in the corner of the bumper.... that's it! That's all! Kind of pathetic for innovation and change but in the car world that's big stuff..... Similarly, when Canon put a mode dial that spun all the way around on a rebel they were ridiculed, yet it is the same degree of innovation....


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## tayassu (Jun 24, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...



+1 
I would choose it again over any other APS-C camera. Nikon D7100? Hate the button layout. Pentax K-3? Bad autofocus and too few lenses. Canon 70D? Too small buffer, although, I might jump for that one instead. The 7D was not only, it is a great camera.


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## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Laugh if you like, he is most likely correct. The 7D was the pinnacle of the APS-C segment, too. You do realize we're talking about *cameras*, not just sensors, right? :
> ...





tayassu said:


> +1
> I would choose it again over any other APS-C camera. Nikon D7100? Hate the button layout. Pentax K-3? Bad autofocus and too few lenses. Canon 70D? Too small buffer, although, I might jump for that one instead. The 7D was not only, it is a great camera.


You have to look at these bodies from a product positioning point of view. And as far as Canon naming conventions goes single digit bodies tend to be the highest end of that product segment. The more digits in the name the lower end it is.

To limit Canon from adding innovations and new technologies in lower end products does not help them any as other companies will always try to outdo each other's user experience, features or pricing so a body whose only upgrade in the 5 years was a firmware update aint gonna have Ethernet port, USB 3, LTE, GPS or WiFi overnight.

I do understand the frustration and confusion amongst some participants on this thread so I tend to not argue all my points to the bitter end. 

This is my interpretation per body

1-Series = Highest end double grip pro body
5-Series = Highest end single grip pro body
7-Series = Highest end APS-C pro body
6-Series = Highest end SD card pro body

Again, I think Maiabing's forecast to be very close to the actual announcement of the 5D Mark III replacement. Although I agree with her analysis I hope she is wrong. Why? Because I'd like a 5D Mark IV in my hands sooner than later.

I do hope that if CFast were to be introduced in the next 1D or 5D that they cost similarly with the fastest CF cards.


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## Lee Jay (Jun 24, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Car makers are a stagnant market with very little change from year to year.... mostly cosmetic changes. No real surprises anywhere... As a point in case, with pickup trucks the big thing this year is GM with a step in the corner of the bumper.... that's it!



Or Ford's 700 pound reduction in weight going from steel to aluminum.

Or how about the Toyota Hybrid System announcements, fuel cell vehicle announcements, or other maker's (including Tesla) battery electric vehicle announcements? Those are hardly "stagnant".


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## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Or Ford's 700 pound reduction in weight going from steel to aluminum.
> 
> Or how about the Toyota Hybrid System announcements, fuel cell vehicle announcements, or other maker's (including Tesla) battery electric vehicle announcements? Those are hardly "stagnant".


Apple is notoriously known for being secretive about future products and services. It gives them an edge and helps in their PR. 

Canon being secretive about new lenses and bodies allowed for the popularity of CR and NL.


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## Don Haines (Jun 24, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Car makers are a stagnant market with very little change from year to year.... mostly cosmetic changes. No real surprises anywhere... As a point in case, with pickup trucks the big thing this year is GM with a step in the corner of the bumper.... that's it!
> ...


I stand corrected!


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## Marauder (Jun 24, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> assassin11 said:
> 
> 
> > expatinasia said:
> ...



[email protected] Constance Bay Ice Fishing tournament....times a billion! ;D


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## Maiaibing (Jun 24, 2014)

dolina said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Really the only guideline useable. Not that's its fail safe. But seems to be useful to gauge updates more than anything else. Here's my D-series timeline,
> ...



Maybe, but the 5DIII actually went to the shops the same month as it was announced. So I expect no delay to market if indeed it is announced mid-2015 and not late 2014/early 2015 as I hope so I can plan my next move. 

_If_ Canon has something new up their sleeves I am sure they will want to "hype" it as they did with the 5DII before it came out with several teases preceding it. No reason for "hyping" the 5DIII. Solid - yes. Innovative - no. Canon even promoted it relative to 5DII: "builds on the performance of the legendary EOS 5D Mark II, offering improved speed,greater resolution, enhanced processing power and extended creative options for both stills and Full HD movies". 

Time will tell.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 24, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



The VW XL1 is pretty amazing too. 300+ mpg. It's so efficient the oil dependant USA government have banned it from sale.


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## Don Haines (Jun 24, 2014)

Marauder said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > assassin11 said:
> ...


you've got to test a pro level camera in cold weather


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 24, 2014)

expatinasia said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you BTW for supporting my assessment that 2015 will be a dry year for 5D and 1D replacements. Other than no major sporting events of the caliber of the Olympics or World Cup there is the thing about product life cycles.August 2016.
> ...



umm no
(although, granted, more popular than some may think, cricket is huge in India and they have a ridiculously huge population, but all the same come not bigger the Olympics)


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 24, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



How did they find the time to do that what with all the chem-trailing and 9/11 orchestrating?


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## Tugela (Jun 24, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



If it does not work properly at -30C it is completely useless as a camera. Well known fact.


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## dolina (Jun 24, 2014)

I agree. If it doesn't work at -30c it is useless for cricket.


Tugela said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Marauder said:
> ...


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## assassin11 (Jun 24, 2014)

R1-7D said:


> assassin11 said:
> 
> 
> > R1-7D said:
> ...




My point is camera bodies came out on those years (Pan AM Game years). So 2015 is a possibility. *Just after* or *during*.


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## expatinasia (Jun 25, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...



umm no, what?

I did not say the Cricket World Cup and Rugby World Cup are bigger than the Olympics, I said they are major global sporting events that attract *b*illions of viewers.

Cricket is huge in India, Sri Lanka, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, England and a lot of other countries.

Rugby is also huge in a lot of countries around the world and is even played here in Asia Pacific where Japan and South Korea are the best teams, with China and HK fast getting better. Most other nations here are not very good at it, but this is for many reasons including sport education, marketing and history.

The final with England v Australia in the Rugby World Cup was viewed by some 3billion if I remember correctly and was broadcast in 205 countries.

Anyway, this is not about sport. I was just making the point that there *are* major international sporting events in 2015. I only mentioned the two biggest, and those two are massive. There are also plenty of other smaller events that do not compare to the Olympics and FIFA world cup.

Back to cameras?


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## madmailman (Jun 25, 2014)

You think it might just be an economies of scale issue. Maybe the 7DII will have a sensor built on a new smaller say 50nm production line and to get the most out of the new line Canon needs to produce all it's new sensors on that line and retire the old 500nm line(s). This would make economic sense no? The "new revolutionary" sensor in the 7DII I think will point out where ALL EOS cameras are going.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 25, 2014)

madmailman said:


> You think it might just be an economies of scale issue. Maybe the 7DII will have a sensor built on a new smaller say 50nm production line and to get the most out of the new line Canon needs to produce all it's new sensors on that line and retire the old 500nm line(s). This would make economic sense no? The "new revolutionary" sensor in the 7DII I think will point out where ALL EOS cameras are going.



Canon used the 7D as a development mule for camera ergonomics and User Interface updates, which is why the camera's handling is still so fresh. Nearly all of it's design changes went into the 5DIII and 1DX. So much so many people called the 5DIII a full frame 7D than a 5DII replacement (which is what the 6D eventually became). The AF redesign paved the way for the 61 point array and control and apart from the sensor, there is still a lot to like about the 7D. So it makes sense for Canon to use the 7DII as a development tool to updaqte the sensor technology and design. As long as the 7DII breaks even in the market place then the develeopment and lessons learnt from this model are effectively free to Canon, who can then incorporate it's features into the next gen of camera models...ie 5D4, 6DII, 1DXII ect. If the sensor is fantastic, then it's hype will generate a natural desire for full frame variants...and the next gen camera models will pretty much sell themselves with little marketing. In my view, that's the wise application of innovation which leads to market dominance. 
If I rememebr the 40D introduced Live view to Canon, which was later incorporated into the 1DsIII and 5DII models. For landscape work, it was a game changer...somehitng which Nikon have never fully engaged with.


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## AvTvM (Jun 25, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Canon used the 7D as a development mule for camera ergonomics and User Interface updates, which is why the camera's handling is still so fresh. Nearly all of it's design changes went into the 5DIII and 1DX. So much so many people called the 5DIII a full frame 7D than a 5DII replacement (which is what the 6D eventually became). The AF redesign paved the way for the 61 point array and control and apart from the sensor, there is still a lot to like about the 7D. So it makes sense for Canon to use the 7DII as a development tool to updaqte the sensor technology and design. As long as the 7DII breaks even in the market place then the develeopment and lessons learnt from this model are effectively free to Canon, who can then incorporate it's features into the next gen of camera models...ie 5D4, 6DII, 1DXII ect. If the sensor is fantastic, then it's hype will generate a natural desire for full frame variants...and the next gen camera models will pretty much sell themselves with little marketing. In my view, that's the wise application of innovation which leads to market dominance.
> If I rememebr the 40D introduced Live view to Canon, which was later incorporated into the 1DsIII and 5DII models. For landscape work, it was a game changer...somehitng which Nikon have never fully engaged with.



+1 ... on eyerything!


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## trstromme (Jun 25, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> trstromme said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...


do they?
They showcase models when they're done developing them, prior to general availability.
Before that, everything is hush-hush. Here in Norway (and also Sweden) each year you get spy shots of cars from the large european manufacturers being caught while making the journey to the north for winter testing etc. these cars are masked and hidden away as best as the manufacturers can. (like Canon/Nikon do when field testing their I'm sure)The manufacturer won't confirm or deny anything and their reps tend to flee at the sight of a camera.
When a model or technology is ready and introduced it is because it is meant for mass consumption, and they are sure of if and when they can deliver.
I don't really see much difference between the auto industry and the photo industry here. Models are introduced at for instance trade shows. Apart from concept and futuristic tinkering (as Canon have also done, for instance the 4k prototype..) very little is spoken about when it comes to new model lines or continuation of existing ones. 
(Canon have made development announcements, like the 1Dc and the 800mm. It is because it serves them some purpose. They are limited in scope, one product typically and assure customers that they too are in a certain game.)

Why?
Because if you lay out your plans in the open you also make a commitment on delivery.
I work for a major software and hardware company in the IT industry. We do not (and are forbidden) to discuss plans of upcoming features, versions etc. yes there are road maps, but they are mostly internal, non-committing, often under NDAs. The public roadmaps are very broad, not much detail in them.
These things have financial implications; law-suits etc. from investors, customers etc. if you do not deliver. In an established marked I think it's better to keep quiet and surprise the markets every now and then than to be very outspoken and disappoint.
We had a (future) product once, the SPARC ROCK CPU which was a very unconventional new CPU design. We started talking about it in 2005. it was cancelled in 2009 because we could not perfect the technology. It cause a lot of negative press each and every time we delayed it much to the dismay of investors and the markets.

my shots on flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/trondstromme/


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## madmailman (Jun 25, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> madmailman said:
> 
> 
> > You think it might just be an economies of scale issue. Maybe the 7DII will have a sensor built on a new smaller say 50nm production line and to get the most out of the new line Canon needs to produce all it's new sensors on that line and retire the old 500nm line(s). This would make economic sense no? The "new revolutionary" sensor in the 7DII I think will point out where ALL EOS cameras are going.
> ...



I think you are missing my point. I was just throwing it out there that new 1D & 5D next year could be because Canon have retooled their sensor production lines and will no longer be able to produce the current sensors. We will have a very good idea if this is the case when the 7DII is released.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 25, 2014)

madmailman said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > madmailman said:
> ...



It's a fair point you make, I think Canon will want to move away from it's existing sensor design because it's their most complained about feature in the current generation of cameras. If Canon has to introduce new silicon etching equipment due to the need to move forwards, then that can only be a good thing for photographers. Canon have a history of slow but accurate change, they were slow to introduce AF, but they did it right and when they did, most other camera manufacturers moved over to a simular system. Nikon with their awful screw drive...Minolta / Sony had a simular system. Canon held off Digial sensors and pretty much went stright for cmos when every one else was playing with CCD chips...again, a few years later every one copied Canon because they got it right first time. A classic case of measure twice and cut once. 
So when this new sensor tech lands....it'll be a wonder and an eye opener. 

In the mean time, I'm still enjoying my 5DIII's


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## ewg963 (Jun 25, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> KKCFamilyman said:
> 
> 
> > Makes me wonder if I should return my 1dx and wait since I have the time.
> ...


+1


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## keithcooper (Jun 25, 2014)

*Making use of rumours - selling kit?*

I've never sold kit based on a rumour (and I see a few ;-) I get asked quite often and always ask what people are going to take pictures with, whilst waiting for the new stuff...

The only times I do make use of rumours is to ensure that when something comes along that I will definitely want, I've spoken to my dealer well in advance to make sure I get one of the first (I got my 1Ds3 in November 2007). One of the main reasons (apart from the 'New Toy' effect ;-) is because I write articles and reviews and timing may be important (hence I produced one of the first reviews of Canon's new 10-18mm lens).

With some products. you can wait and do a much more comprehensive review of (such as large format printers or colour management kit), but 'consumer' stuff has a time frame where there is more interest. In terms of my time put into the site, most is spent on the 'serious stuff' not the rumours (actually most is spent on the commercial photo part of the business, since that's what pays the bills ;-)


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## Maiaibing (Jun 25, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Canon have a history of slow but accurate change, they were slow to introduce AF, but they did it right and when they did, most other camera manufacturers moved over to a simular system. Nikon with their awful screw drive...Minolta / Sony had a simular system.



Your memory fails you. Under presure by the tremendous succes of Minolta's AF system Canon rushed out a small series of utterly hopeless lenses with AF in a self-contained battery driven lens design. It was - of course - a complete flop and compelled Canon to rethink as they did with the EOS mount which left many Canon users dismayed because it rendered their old lenses useless, but allowed Canon (and ultimately its large user base) to move into the future.


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## mackguyver (Jun 25, 2014)

I'm not sure I buy this rumor unless the new sensor tech is truly revolutionary (dual pixel doesn't excite me that much). For me the 5DIII and 1D X are very close to the perfect cameras and it would take at least one or more of these items for me to consider upgrading, assuming no degradation of existing features/performance:

1. 2+ stops of improvement in ISO noise levels
2. 2+ stops of improvement in DR
3. 50% increase in megapixels
4. 50% increase in frame rate
5. Significant weight reduction (1D X) via carbon fiber or something
6. Something revolutionary that we don't know about


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## Dylan777 (Jun 25, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> I'm not sure I buy this rumor unless the new sensor tech is truly revolutionary (dual pixel doesn't excite me that much). For me the 5DIII and 1D X are very close to the perfect cameras and it would take at least one or more of these items for me to consider upgrading, assuming no degradation of existing features/performance:
> 
> 1. 2+ stops of improvement in ISO noise levels
> 2. 2+ stops of improvement in DR
> ...



It's easy to say it now. With your G.A.S problem, I have hard time believing it ;D

I now have little taste of 1d class, we might be the 1st few on pre-order list when X2 announced.


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## mackguyver (Jun 25, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure I buy this rumor unless the new sensor tech is truly revolutionary (dual pixel doesn't excite me that much). For me the 5DIII and 1D X are very close to the perfect cameras and it would take at least one or more of these items for me to consider upgrading, assuming no degradation of existing features/performance:
> ...


LOL, though my G.A.S. problem is usually with lenses. I am truly happy with these two bodies and given the hit that you generally take when selling bodies, it would take quite a bit for me to upgrade.


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## M_S (Jun 25, 2014)

Perhaps they fixed the rolling shutter issue, that would be huge.


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## jdramirez (Jun 25, 2014)

I feel the same way. When I had my xs... yes totally needed to upgrade for so many reasons ( video, iso performance, fps,etc), and when I sold my 60d at a loss... that was hard... but the improvements going to full frame were definitive and it just took a while for that to notice. But now... It will have to be truly earth shattering for me to consider the added expense plus losing money on selling the mkiii. 



mackguyver said:


> I'm not sure I buy this rumor unless the new sensor tech is truly revolutionary (dual pixel doesn't excite me that much). For me the 5DIII and 1D X are very close to the perfect cameras and it would take at least one or more of these items for me to consider upgrading, assuming no degradation of existing features/performance:
> 
> 1. 2+ stops of improvement in ISO noise levels
> 2. 2+ stops of improvement in DR
> ...


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## Sabaki (Jun 25, 2014)

Let me be ridiculous for a moment...

...so all these rumours, all the hypothesizing turns out to be true, Canon has produced a sensor that blows every sensor clean out the water. 
It's so good, it significantly closes the gap between crop and full frame performance. Well, until they drop the equivalent full frame sensor into a 5DIV or 1DX2. 

If the 7D2 actually turns out to be the harbinger of a massive revolution, what becomes of the 70D, 6D, 5D3 and 1DX? Would people actually buy those bodies or will it force Canon to release a slew of next gen bodies relatively soon after the 7D2 debuts?

Hope that makes sense, I'm on some strong mess here


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## Erik S. Klein (Jun 25, 2014)

Vikmnilu said:


> R1-7D said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure replacements are in the works. When will we see them is the question...so in the meantime enjoy what you've got.
> ...



While saving for the Next Big Thing...


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## Jeff (Jun 25, 2014)

just curious what you guys think the next cameras will have in regards to their connection for tethered shooting? Will Canon put USB3 or Thunderbolt and if it's Thunderbolt could there be a new version of Thunderbolt that doesn't coincide with today's version?

I have not kept up on the computer news but I do remember when Apple dropped firewire 400 that a lot of cameras were using for tethered shooting

thanks for any insights

p.s any reason why they won't put SDI connections verses HDMI?


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## mackguyver (Jun 25, 2014)

Jeff said:


> just curious what you guys think the next cameras will have in regards to their connection for tethered shooting? Will Canon put USB3 or Thunderbolt and if it's Thunderbolt could there be a new version of Thunderbolt that doesn't coincide with today's version?
> 
> I have not kept up on the computer news but I do remember when Apple dropped firewire 400 that a lot of cameras were using for tethered shooting
> 
> ...


Canon's always been very mass market when it comes to connectors, so USB 3 is probably the most we can hope for, and SDI and Thunderbolt are very much niche connectors in comparison to USB and HDMI connectors which are everywhere. I could potentially see those connections coming to the Cinema EOS line, though.


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## dgatwood (Jun 25, 2014)

M_S said:


> Perhaps they fixed the rolling shutter issue, that would be huge.



Huge and way overdue. The basic techniques have been used for decades in the CCD world. Canon just has to bite the bullet and decide that it's worth dedicating the extra silicon required for buffering the values (preferably using double-sided silicon etching rather than by stealing wafer space from the light-sensitive areas like they do with interline transfer CCDs).



Jeff said:


> just curious what you guys think the next cameras will have in regards to their connection for tethered shooting? Will Canon put USB3 or Thunderbolt and if it's Thunderbolt could there be a new version of Thunderbolt that doesn't coincide with today's version?



New version? Sure. Rumor has it that the upcoming Thunderbolt 3 will do 40 Gbps (presumably with 2 bonded 20 Gbps channels), if that's what you mean. For perspective, that's enough for about 170 frames per second of RAW video, assuming the attached computer could handle storing such copious amounts of data somehow. I'm not sure what the point would be, of course.


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## dolina (Jun 25, 2014)

When Canon switches to CFast then I can see them switching to USB 3 from USB 2.

Apple dropped Firewire altogether because of the bandwidth limitation of the standard at 40MB/s and 80MB/s. These were fast during the time of USB 1.x and USB 2.x but Firewire pales in comparison to USB 3 speeds of 500MB/s

Thunderbolt 1 & 2 are spec'd to 1,000MB/s & 2,000GB/s respectively.

What probably restricted Canon from transitioning to faster I/O is size, heat, power draw, price, usability, demand & workflow. 

It is possible that SDI is too high end or it isnt as popular as HDMI. If you do want a pro video camera then get a Cinema EOS and not a EOS?



Jeff said:


> just curious what you guys think the next cameras will have in regards to their connection for tethered shooting? Will Canon put USB3 or Thunderbolt and if it's Thunderbolt could there be a new version of Thunderbolt that doesn't coincide with today's version?
> 
> I have not kept up on the computer news but I do remember when Apple dropped firewire 400 that a lot of cameras were using for tethered shooting
> 
> ...


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## jrista (Jun 25, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > If this is true, and Canon feels that this "new technology" about to be debuted in the 7D2 is so good that the rest of the lineup must have it, it must be something big!
> ...



There are many reasons to buy the 5D line over the 1D line, regardless of how much better the 1D line may be. No battery grip (BIG reason for many people), more megapixels, less read noise, quieter mirror, cheaper (even a thousand bucks is more than "cheaper enough"), etc.


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## steliosk (Jun 26, 2014)

vscd said:


> steliosk said:
> 
> 
> > - faster SD card slot
> ...



are you still glad when you're pushing out the shadows in post processing knowing that you've spent a fortune on buying a great camera with almost the same sensor as the previous model?

I'm not a nikon guy but honestly i don't get it!
Doesn't canon sensors need improvements?
I don't care who makes it, i care on doing my job better.
But i think its funny to talk about USB3 and highlighted buttons in the next models.

Don't complain if canon re-sells the same sensor in the next model with USB3 and 4k as a new feature which is useless for photographers.


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## ck5dmkiii (Jun 26, 2014)

I have to be truly honest. I just got a 1DX about 6 months ago to replace my old beaten down 5dMK3 and I cannot honestly think of anything else I could want from a camera. It has great AF, great low light capabilities, excellent ISO quality. What else is there that you "HAVE" to have? To me nothing. I understand we will always want more in life but for me I have to say I am truly happy with my 1DX. Just my opinion of course, I know most feel differently.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 26, 2014)

ck5dmkiii said:


> I have to be truly honest. I just got a 1DX about 6 months ago to replace my old beaten down 5dMK3 and I cannot honestly think of anything else I could want from a camera. It has great AF, great low light capabilities, excellent ISO quality. What else is there that you "HAVE" to have? To me nothing. I understand we will always want more in life but for me I have to say I am truly happy with my 1DX. Just my opinion of course, I know most feel differently.



Me too, recently joined the 1d line. Let me put it this way. If Canon releases 5D 4 and 1dX II tomorrow, I will more likely upgrade the 1d over 5D. I will keep my current 5D III as a second body until it dies or there is a huge discount on 5D 4.

The grip on 1dx is a HUGE advantage when shoot with larger lenses(85L, 70-200 f2.8 IS II, 400mm etc...)

After shooting with the X for 2weeks, I now feel I need to add a grip to my 5D III. It feels naked at bottom without grip.


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## jrista (Jun 26, 2014)

steliosk said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > steliosk said:
> ...



How many times have you lifted the shadows of your photos by MORE than four stops? Be honest, now, with yourself, because that's the cutoff point. How often do you lift shadows by 4.5, 5, 5.3 stops? That's what the additional DR of the D800 gets you...those extra stops of shadow lifting power (assuming you expose to preserve the highlights). There are very few situations where you really actually need to lift shadows by that much. Sunset landscapes where the sun is setting behind mountains, or something like that, are one of the few cases where you actually NEED that kind of dynamic range...and then, having barely more than two additional stops of DR is almost meaningless, as the dynamic range of the scene is likely closer to 20 stops. Your still going to need GNDs. 

Sure, it's nice having cleaner shadows, I want cleaner shadows myself...but more DR is a feature you'll rarely use. On the flip side, USB3.0? You'll use that EVERY time you import. Dual CF cards? You'll use that EVERY time you shoot anything. Better/faster AF? You'll use that EVERY time you shoot. There are more important features on a camera than the dynamic range, unless you primarily shoot scenes that have a ton of DR in them, or don't like having any contrast in your final images.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 26, 2014)

jrista said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Call me the odd one if you want to, I like the grip and shutter sound. Just like Eldar said "The 1DX shutter can be compared to the sound of a high performance car engine"


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## jdramirez (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm glad I'm not keeping up with the jones (or the Dylan(s))... because my pocket book can't handle it. Though I do have a hankering for some length... I was thinking 400mm give or take...  I really wish I had a spare $12000 for the 200-400mm.



Dylan777 said:


> ck5dmkiii said:
> 
> 
> > I have to be truly honest. I just got a 1DX about 6 months ago to replace my old beaten down 5dMK3 and I cannot honestly think of anything else I could want from a camera. It has great AF, great low light capabilities, excellent ISO quality. What else is there that you "HAVE" to have? To me nothing. I understand we will always want more in life but for me I have to say I am truly happy with my 1DX. Just my opinion of course, I know most feel differently.
> ...


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## Steve Todd (Jun 26, 2014)

When I purchased a 1D Mk IV in 2010, I was so impressed with it that I ended up purchasing a second one just six months later. When the 1D X was announced, I didn't think that it would be that much of an improvement (for me) over the 1D4. The 1D4s served me well and I was hesitant to part with one of them in order to buy the 1DX.

However, after reading positive comments from so many users of the 1DX, I decided to purchase one to replace one of my 1D4s. That was over 19-months ago, and I have never regretted making that decision. I use both models together frquently and although I still reach for the 1D4 when shooting some wildlife, I find myself using the 1DX for anything and everything. 

With the release of a new 1-series body possibly just around the corner, I will probably wait to see just what it offers/features that I can't do now with my other two bodies, before making the decision to purchase one. However, I also realize that because I just said that, it will probably come with features/capabilities that I just CAN'T live without! Of course, then I'll be faced with the decision of which of my other two bodies to part with.

It will also be interesting to see how well it is received by the working Pros. Based on the success of previous models, I guess I know the answer to that already!


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## Dylan777 (Jun 26, 2014)

Keep that dream alive. Soon or later it will happen. I got introduced to DSLR photography late 2008. Started out a used combo of 40D + 50mm f1.4 and 17-55 f2.8 IS.

BTW. I played with 200-400 yesterday at local camera store while looking for new camera bag to fit my X. That lens and 200mm f2 IS are quite awesome 



jdramirez said:


> I'm glad I'm not keeping up with the jones (or the Dylan(s))... because my pocket book can't handle it. Though I do have a hankering for some length... I was thinking 400mm give or take...  I really wish I had a spare $12000 for the 200-400mm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jdramirez (Jun 26, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Keep that dream alive. Soon or later it will happen. I got introduced to DSLR photography late 2008. Started out a used combo of 40D + 50mm f1.4 and 17-55 f2.8 IS.
> 
> BTW. I played with 200-400 yesterday at local camera store while looking for new camera bag to fit my X. That lens and 200mm f2 IS are quite awesome
> 
> ...



I want to take a pilgrimage to B&H in NYC... Maybe while the Mrs. and the eldest are watching a show, I can let the baby just cry while I try out ALL the lenses... even the crappy cheap ones.


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## Menace (Jun 26, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> ck5dmkiii said:
> 
> 
> > I have to be truly honest. I just got a 1DX about 6 months ago to replace my old beaten down 5dMK3 and I cannot honestly think of anything else I could want from a camera. It has great AF, great low light capabilities, excellent ISO quality. What else is there that you "HAVE" to have? To me nothing. I understand we will always want more in life but for me I have to say I am truly happy with my 1DX. Just my opinion of course, I know most feel differently.
> ...



Ha ha - so ture


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 26, 2014)

dolina said:


> When Canon switches to CFast then I can see them switching to USB 3 from USB 2.
> 
> Apple dropped Firewire altogether because of the bandwidth limitation of the standard at 40MB/s and 80MB/s. These were fast during the time of USB 1.x and USB 2.x but Firewire pales in comparison to USB 3 speeds of 500MB/s
> 
> ...



Ah yes...apple and their curiously bizarre support for unloveed and unadopted standards. Look how many devices have usb 3 compared to either firewire or thunderbolt. There's loads of USB 3 but hardly none outside of Apple who have supported thunderbolt. Who cares if it's theoretically a faster port if you can't get many devices to connect to it?


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## GMCPhotographics (Jun 26, 2014)

jrista said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



It depends on your shooting needs, if you need 12fps and top tier Ai Servo tracking then the 1DX is the way to go. If you want a camera with simular built quality, simular AF capability (but not quite as good tracking), a near silent shutter and a smaller foot print then the 5DIII is your camera. Two prefectly placed cameras fulfilling two very different roles but with a big overlap between them.


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## vscd (Jun 26, 2014)

> are you still glad when you're pushing out the shadows in post processing knowing that you've spent a fortune on buying a great camera with almost the same sensor as the previous model?


It's not the same sensor, you gained a lot more ISO-performance. Canon had just another approach for their new sensors. While Nikon (=Sony) tried to improve the dynamic range and resolution, Canon was into the ISO-direction the last few years. The next step for Canon will be the DR again, I guess. 



> >Doesn't canon sensors need improvements?


They did, but not in *your wanted* direction. They invented the DPAF on the 70D for example... an invention which easily catches a lot of engineers. As a company you have ressources for innovation, but you have to choose your next steps. A DR of maybe 11.5-12 stops should be enough for the moment, ISO 1600 wasn't at that time.



> >I don't care who makes it, i care on doing my job better.


Your job depends on 1 or 2 stops of DR? Did you try to use HDR or gradient Filters? I know that a better sensor can save a lot of work, but I can't imagine that there are unresolveable jobs for a 1DX/5D3.



> Don't complain if canon re-sells the same sensor in the next model with USB3 and 4k as a new feature which is useless for photographers.


I'm not too lucky with Canon in the last few years, but remember that there was a tsunami, a radioactive fallout (especially for canon-locations) and a cut down power-support for companies. Let them come out with a new performance next year and everyone is happy again. Sigma is a good example for that.

By the way, canon is still selling more bodies than anyone else... they make something right, I think. And their sensors aren't oily ;D


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## BL (Jun 26, 2014)

ck5dmkiii said:


> I have to be truly honest. I just got a 1DX about 6 months ago to replace my old beaten down 5dMK3 and I cannot honestly think of anything else I could want from a camera. It has great AF, great low light capabilities, excellent ISO quality. What else is there that you "HAVE" to have? To me nothing. I understand we will always want more in life but for me I have to say I am truly happy with my 1DX. Just my opinion of course, I know most feel differently.



+1

The 1Dx is the last DSLR I purchase. Famous last words, yes, I know, but seriously. 

As a hobbyist, I have never been more pleased with a camera related purchase than the day I started using this camera body.


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## mrsfotografie (Jun 26, 2014)

BL said:


> ck5dmkiii said:
> 
> 
> > I have to be truly honest. I just got a 1DX about 6 months ago to replace my old beaten down 5dMK3 and I cannot honestly think of anything else I could want from a camera. It has great AF, great low light capabilities, excellent ISO quality. What else is there that you "HAVE" to have? To me nothing. I understand we will always want more in life but for me I have to say I am truly happy with my 1DX. Just my opinion of course, I know most feel differently.
> ...



It must be truly great because I can't really imagine needing anything better than is offered by the 5DMkIII.


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## dolina (Jun 26, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> It must be truly great because I can't really imagine needing anything better than is offered by the 5DMkIII.


This is always said until the next latest and greatest shows up.


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## Menace (Jun 26, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> BL said:
> 
> 
> > ck5dmkiii said:
> ...



Unless you are shooting sports or fast action or need the robustness of the 1 series body, 5D3 is a great body. I know cos I shoot with both.


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## mrsfotografie (Jun 26, 2014)

Menace said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > BL said:
> ...



When I bought the MkII I knew the AF performance was 'imited'. As fot the MkIII I'm yet to find the limits of what its AF has to offer, even with fast motorsports so again, it's hard to imagine what improvement the 1DX could offer.

Mind, the 5D series has a trick up its sleeve that the 1D series cannot offer: the option to go without a grip which is invaluable when I travel or when I carry two bodies on a shoot (the body with the widest lens will usually go without a grip in order for me to fit all my gear into my bag - a limit I've set myself on the max amount of gear I'm willing to carry). That, and the cost of the body itself ;D


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## Jglaser757 (Jun 26, 2014)

I regret not jumping ship to Nikon when the 800e came out. Now Nikon comes out with an update and canon is still dragging their feet with a high mp camera. I loved my mk III , but I see the limitations when I print anything larger than 30x40. I never thought canon would sit back and twiddle their thumbs and scratching their heads for two years, let alone almost three years for an update.


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## dolina (Jun 26, 2014)

Jglaser757 said:


> I regret not jumping ship to Nikon when the 800e came out. Now Nikon comes out with an update and canon is still dragging their feet with a high mp camera. I loved my mk III , but I see the limitations when I print anything larger than 30x40. I never thought canon would sit back and twiddle their thumbs and scratching their heads for two years, let alone almost three years for an update.


That could get Canon to do an update.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 26, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> Menace said:
> 
> 
> > mrsfotografie said:
> ...



In the fast lane:
About faster tracking & more accurate AF in AI servo?
About 20plus RAWs without worry too much buffer slowing down?
About 12000ISO in low light without worry noise?
About proper exposure in AI servo & Oneshot?

Best of all, like Neuro said " he used his X to drive nail" - NOW can the 5D III does that? ;D

As an owner of both, I agree with you 5D III is great camera compared to mrk II. However, the X is just much-much better, until X II of course


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## Ruined (Jun 26, 2014)

Dear Canon,
5D4 with firmware and hardware support for interchangeable focus screens. THANKS!


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## Menace (Jun 27, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > Menace said:
> ...



Ha ha Dylan777 - sounds like you are mentally preparing yourself for the 1DX2 already. Maybe it will replace your 5dMK3 and complement your 'old' 1dx.


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## BL (Jun 27, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> When I bought the MkII I knew the AF performance was 'imited'. As fot the MkIII I'm yet to find the limits of what its AF has to offer, even with fast motorsports so again, *it's hard to imagine what improvement the 1DX could offer*.



Yeah, I mean in many ways they are similar cameras. But the red blinky AF points of AI servo in low light, high fps, and other little niceties (spot metering tied to AF point, saving camera setups to CF card, weather resistance, interchangeable focussing screens, etc.) make it the perfect camera for me. 

It's hard to imagine what major improvement the 1DX mkII could offer imho


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## mrsfotografie (Jun 27, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > Menace said:
> ...





BL said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > When I bought the MkII I knew the AF performance was 'imited'. As fot the MkIII I'm yet to find the limits of what its AF has to offer, even with fast motorsports so again, *it's hard to imagine what improvement the 1DX could offer*.
> ...



Of course everyone can compare specifications between camera's, but honestly for my type of shooting, I'm still totally satisfied with the MkIII which is a really nice feeling ;D

On the mirrorless end I feel a little unrest though... that a7 looks really tasty (I have the FF bug yes).


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## Dylan777 (Jun 27, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > mrsfotografie said:
> ...



You ended our discussion well. It's all about the individual needs. 

Give FE 35mm a try if you ever decide on a7. I'm waiting for FE UWA. It feels like forever.


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## mrsfotografie (Jun 27, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > Of course everyone can compare specifications between camera's, but honestly for my type of shooting, I'm still totally satisfied with the MkIII which is a really nice feeling  ;D
> ...



I've got a collection of FD and FL glass, and recently acquired a mint condition FDn 50mm f/1.4 that I would like to use as a walk-around lens. There's an FDn mount Sigma 21-35 f/3.5-4 and 70-210 3.5-4.5 APO on the way too, and that 21-35 is supposedly a pretty good UWA zoom. This is what makes me yearn for a full frame mirrorless! I've considered a Mitakon Lens turbo adapter to use FF lenses on APS-C but I think it will kill the optical quality.

The intention will be not to invest in too much FE glass; just an AF zoom or prime and the rest will be all legacy stuff (although it's also possible to use my current E-mount lenses in a cropped mode). I'm waiting for a good FDn 35mm f/2 to come along, maybe that will help me decide  Yeah I've got the GAS


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## msm (Jun 27, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



I almost never shoot UWA, but I got a Samyang 14mm and I am impressed by how well it performs on my A7R especially for such a cheap lens.


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## jdramirez (Jun 27, 2014)

msm said:


> I almost never shoot UWA, but I got a Samyang 14mm and I am impressed by how well it performs on my A7R especially for such a cheap lens.



I was thinking about one of those... but I don't want to lose money on another lens if I decide I don't want it...


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## vscd (Jun 28, 2014)

Yepp, the samyang 14mm lens is a hell of a lens for the price. Sharp and nice build. Just the barreldistortion is really strong. So don't try to make architectural pictures with it, at least no on film


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## jdramirez (Jun 29, 2014)

vscd said:


> Yepp, the samyang 14mm lens is a hell of a lens for the price. Sharp and nice build. Just the barreldistortion is really strong. So don't try to make architectural pictures with it, at least no on film



I guess I could try and fix it in post... but I just bought a 17-40 today for a song... I may wind up reselling it... but certainly if I keep it, the difference between 14 and 17 may be significant, but not to me.


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## vscd (Jun 29, 2014)

The difference between a 14mm and 17mm is huge, don't underestimate this. Fixing the distortion in post is of course possible, but As I told, I'm working with film, so the lens has to be good, not lightroom


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## jdramirez (Jun 29, 2014)

dilbert said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > vscd said:
> ...



I'm aware, but I'm not a wide angle guy... and if you can find me a 16-35 f4L for five hundy, I'll jump all over that.


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