# Off Brand: Nikon Announces Development of D850



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 25, 2017)

```
<strong>MELVILLE, NY (July 25, 2017 at 12:01 A.M. EDT) –</strong>– Nikon Inc. is pleased to announce the development of the next generation full-frame, high-resolution, high-speed digital SLR cameras with the upcoming release of the highly anticipated Nikon D850. This announcement coincides with Nikon’s 100<sup>th</sup> anniversary of its establishment, which is celebrated today.</p>
<p>The D850 will be a formidable tool for creators who will not compromise on exceptional image quality and versatility, including both aspiring and professional photographers as well as hobbyists who capture landscapes, weddings, sports, fashion, commercial imagery and multimedia content creators.</p>
<p>The D850 is the successor to the D810, which has been highly praised by its users for offering extremely sharp and clear rendering, with rich tone characteristics. This powerful new FX-format digital SLR camera is engineered with a range of new technologies, features and performance enhancements that are a direct result of feedback from users, who demand the very best from their camera equipment. The D850 will exceed the expectations of the vast range of photographers that seek the high resolution and high-speed capabilities that only a Nikon of this caliber complemented by NIKKOR lenses can offer.</p>
<p>To learn more about the Nikon D850, please visit <a href="http://www.nikonusa.com/d850" target="article-null">nikonusa.com/d850</a>. Information regarding the release of this product will be announced at a later date.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


----------



## Maximilian (Jul 25, 2017)

[quote author=nikonusa.com/d850]
"The next frontier in full-frame, high-resolution, high-speed digital SLR cameras"
[/quote]
Very promising. I like competition pushing Canon to go further.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 25, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> [quote author=nikonusa.com/d850]
> "The next frontier in full-frame, high-resolution, high-speed digital SLR cameras"


Very promising. I like competition pushing Canon to go further.
[/quote]

Typical marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every manufacturer (be that Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji etc.) says that about their newest camera in a similar fashion. Until such camera arrives and will be thoroughly reviewed, nobody really knows. Competition is good and desirable, no question about that, but Nikon has to push even harder in the light of losing market share and being in financial troubles. Hopefully, they'll recover and will step on Canon's heel for another decades to come...


----------



## ahsanford (Jul 25, 2017)

A teaser for their bread-and-butter pro rig? This isn't the Nikon Df crowd...

Seems very odd. Perhaps between Nikon's ongoing problems and (we presume) an imminent A7 III platform release, Nikon wanted to reassure folks that the good stuff is coming.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Jul 25, 2017)

And of all the things this market segment of camera needs to hype, _8K timelapse isn't it._

The D810 needs to fuse its own brand line's legacy -- that mythically good sensor -- with the tech overload of the D5/D500 releases.

They 100% can do the latter (4K, immense buffer, anti-flicker, NFC, illuminated keys, etc.). But the former was Sony EXMOR and they (to my knowledge) have never made a sensor that good in-house. It remains to be seen if they can do that themselves or if they have to concede defeat there and buy a 2+ year old A7R II sensor to do it.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> The D850 will exceed the expectations of the vast range of photographers that seek the high resolution and high-speed capabilities that only a Nikon of this caliber complemented by NIKKOR lenses can offer.



Will it exceed the expectations of those who seek a camera that will not be subject to a recall?  It's an expectation I have, which Canon failed to meet with my 1D X.

Seriously, I'm sure it will be a good camera, and one that Rishi can stroke lovingly and take to bed with him.


----------



## Maximilian (Jul 25, 2017)

Khalai said:


> ... Hopefully, they'll recover and will step on Canon's heel for another decades to come...


+1


----------



## daphins (Jul 25, 2017)

That's cute!


----------



## ahsanford (Jul 25, 2017)

Rishi's compadre has spoken:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2987209957/ten-things-we-are-hoping-for-from-the-nikon-d850

Not an unreasonable list. It's not like they asked for IBIS or a hybrid VF or anything.

- A


----------



## Khalai (Jul 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Rishi's compadre has spoken:
> 
> https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2987209957/ten-things-we-are-hoping-for-from-the-nikon-d850
> 
> ...



Why the hell would they want XQD slot card? Since Lexar out of the biz, I would expect the prices of XQD to rise steeply. Two UHS-II/III slots would be much more practical IMHO.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Why the hell would they want XQD slot card? Since Lexar out of the biz, I would expect the prices of XQD to rise steeply. Two UHS-II/III slots would be much more practical IMHO.



If I were DPR, my answer might be: "_Because Sony. From Sony flow all things good and innovative._"


----------



## DR. High ISO (Jul 25, 2017)

My bank account is getting nervous.. ;D​


----------



## BillB (Jul 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> A teaser for their bread-and-butter pro rig? This isn't the Nikon Df crowd...
> 
> Seems very odd. Perhaps between Nikon's ongoing problems and (we presume) an imminent A7 III platform release, Nikon wanted to reassure folks that the good stuff is coming.
> 
> - A



Officially announcing the development of an 850D makes it sound to me as though it may be a while before the new camera hits the stores. It also makes it seem as though an update to the 750D is even further away.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 25, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Why the hell would they want XQD slot card? Since Lexar out of the biz, I would expect the prices of XQD to rise steeply. Two UHS-II/III slots would be much more practical IMHO.
> ...



Even by their standards, that's a head-scratcher. The way it's worded, you'd think XQD is the only and natural successor to the CF card, instead of something akin to Memory Sticks.

In general, an announcement containing essentially no information is hardly exciting. Short of an apocalypse, we knew Nikon would produce a successor to the D810 at some point.


----------



## DR. High ISO (Jul 25, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> If I were DPR, my answer might be: "_Because Sony. From Sony flow all things good and innovative._"



That was a good one, Sir! ;D


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> And of all the things this market segment of camera needs to hype, _8K timelapse isn't it._
> 
> The D810 needs to fuse its own brand line's legacy -- that mythically good sensor -- with the tech overload of the D5/D500 releases.
> 
> ...


I would love to have the A7r2 sensor in a Canon.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 25, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> If I were DPR, my answer might be: "_Because Sony. From Sony flow all things good and innovative._"



Abysmal battery life, poor ergonomics, overheating, insane pricing? Or what other innovation you mean?


----------



## Khalai (Jul 25, 2017)

BeenThere said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > And of all the things this market segment of camera needs to hype, _8K timelapse isn't it._
> ...



Oh man, that would be something indeed. A7rII sensor in a 6D II body with Canon colour science. Let's call it 6DR as for improved DR. Pun absolutely intended


----------



## BillB (Jul 25, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> And of all the things this market segment of camera needs to hype, _8K timelapse isn't it._
> 
> The D810 needs to fuse its own brand line's legacy -- that mythically good sensor -- with the tech overload of the D5/D500 releases.
> 
> They 100% can do the latter (4K, immense buffer, anti-flicker, NFC, illuminated keys, etc.). But the former was Sony EXMOR and they (to my knowledge) have never made a sensor that good in-house. It remains to be seen if they can do that themselves or if they have to concede defeat there and buy a 2+ year old A7R II sensor to do



Unless Nikon can develop its own sensor maybe its future is to become part of Sony, maybe as an upscale brand, like Cadillac within GM, or Lexus within Toyota. It would give Sony a way of competing with Canon in the upscale DSLR market, if they wanted to go in that direction.


----------



## Cthulhu (Jul 25, 2017)

BillB said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > And of all the things this market segment of camera needs to hype, _8K timelapse isn't it._
> ...



Pretty much everybody buys sensors from Sony, Canon included.
Nikon does develop their own sensors and commissions Sony or Toshiba to build them, which is why they are still in business and are able to put out cameras with current / modern sensors, not being tied down to an investment in a particular sensor process.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 25, 2017)

Cthulhu said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Smaller sensors yes, but AFAIK APS-C and FF Canon sensors are still designed and manufactured by Canon, right?


----------



## Jopa (Jul 27, 2017)

All they need to do is to make it in EF mount. I'll buy two then.


----------



## PureClassA (Jul 27, 2017)

So they are announcing the announcement of another announcement? ....K.


----------



## SteveM (Jul 29, 2017)

Not into 46 mp personally, but with the current sensors in Nikon cameras this will probably be an exceptional camera. What interests me is the gap around the 30 mp mark this now leaves in the Nikon lineup, what will become Nikon's competitor to the 5D MklV? A much souped up D750? A brand new entry? I imagine that 30-35 mp market is a hugely important market and something will fill it. I also imagine it will be a very very good camera. 
My point, Nikon seem to have restructured and are back....with a vengeance, the D5; this D850; the D500 and whatever fills that 30 to 35 mp gap. I'm delighted for Nikon, and for Canon as this can only mean good things for Canon shooters as Canon will have to keep pushing hard, if not harder. Hopefully this will stop any complacency/stagnation in the dslr market.
I'm looking forward to what next year brings in terms of dslr's from both Nikon and Canon.


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 29, 2017)

BeenThere said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > And of all the things this market segment of camera needs to hype, _8K timelapse isn't it._
> ...



I wonder how much of this desire for the Sony sensor in a Canon camera comes from the crushed blacks in Canon CR2 files, something that is actually revisable. 

In another thread Privatebydesign referred to the sliding black point on a CR2 file as opposed to the fixed point on a NEF. i don't quite know what this means, but I do know that compared with Sony and Nikon raw files the blacks on the Canon are crushed down on conversion and generally require opening out. You then get a tonal quality similar to the other makes. Also to optimise IQ in the Canon it requires a moderate ETTR, even on the 5DIV it seems from my fiddling. If sample images are shot to produce an optimised OOC jpeg image, with no further PP, then the Canon is immediately thrown into a disadvantage compared with Nikon and Sony. As virtually all on line images are shot this way, attempts to compare say D810 files with a 5DIV result in the Canon appearing to be (slightly) inferior. Obviously there will be a greater gap with older Canon cameras. Also it looks to me that despite the a7RII using the BSI Exmor R sensor, Nikon's use of the older 36 mp Exmor sensor makes it the better one. 

Just why the CR2 files have this crushed black on conversion I have no idea. It is not a result of lower DR, and using crushed blacks to hide the poorer bottom end. Going back to the early days of digital by Nikon D200 was much better in dark tones than the 5D, but if the charts from the likes of Photon to Photos are to believed, it had much less DR. The 5D was harsh in comparison and needed the black point lifting in post, as have all the ones since.

This harshness in the dark tones, if uncorrected, does make it appear as if the Canon has less DR than it actually has, and is why (I presume) under exposing on the Canon is pretty disastrous if you intend to lift shadows later, whereas on the Nikon, Sony and Pentax (the ones I have worked files from) it doesn't really matter.

As long as I'm not outside the DR I can make even my 5DII images look like those from a D810.


----------



## BillB (Jul 29, 2017)

SteveM said:


> Not into 46 mp personally, but with the current sensors in Nikon cameras this will probably be an exceptional camera. What interests me is the gap around the 30 mp mark this now leaves in the Nikon lineup, what will become Nikon's competitor to the 5D MklV? A much souped up D750? A brand new entry? I imagine that 30-35 mp market is a hugely important market and something will fill it. I also imagine it will be a very very good camera.
> My point, Nikon seem to have restructured and are back....with a vengeance, the D5; this D850; the D500 and whatever fills that 30 to 35 mp gap. I'm delighted for Nikon, and for Canon as this can only mean good things for Canon shooters as Canon will have to keep pushing hard, if not harder. Hopefully this will stop any complacency/stagnation in the dslr market.
> I'm looking forward to what next year brings in terms of dslr's from both Nikon and Canon.



How many mp will the followon to the 750D have might be another way to ask the question. Nikon may have something like a reasonable game plan, but they have to deliver the cameras that they design, control costs and find markets where they can make some money.


----------



## Frodo (Jul 29, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> BeenThere said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 29, 2017)

Frodo said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > BeenThere said:
> ...


----------



## Frodo (Jul 30, 2017)

Yep, damn quotes! I didn't want to quote your long and informative post back at you and was working off my tablet.
I find I can lift shadows in my M3 files better than my 5DII. The noise is like Tri-X grain.


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 31, 2017)

Frodo said:


> Yep, damn quotes! I didn't want to quote your long and informative post back at you and was working off my tablet.
> I find I can lift shadows in my M3 files better than my 5DII. The noise is like Tri-X grain.



Don't disagree, I had an M3 too.

The secret with these off-chip ADC Canons in a high contrast situation where you might wish to lift and soften the shadows is to push the exposure as far to the right as you possibly can. This will result in much blown areas in the rear LCD view - you have to know how that will convert to held detail in the raw file. But it also means the shadows are (generally) well off the sensor floor. There is then no banding or FRN even on the 5DII !


----------



## rishi_sanyal (Aug 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Why the hell would they want XQD slot card? Since Lexar out of the biz, I would expect the prices of XQD to rise steeply. Two UHS-II/III slots would be much more practical IMHO.
> ...



A more objective response might be: because XQD is based off of the scalable PCIe interface as opposed to the non-scalable SATA that CFAST is based on. UHS-II has slow sustained speeds (hence why the Sony a9 write times for anything but short bursts are slow, even with those ultra-expensive cards). UHS-III is very, very new and we're still waiting to see where it goes. XQD's performance is proven (and scalable).

But I understand you're more into unprovoked _ad hominem_ attacks. Invoking my name in threads I have no knowledge or participation in. Suggesting I like to sleep with my cameras. That's cute. It's quite entertaining the once-in-a-blue-moon I have the time to swing by this site and the CR Admin hasn't already deleted your comment(s) and rebuked you. 

But I do worry - for your sake - that those that don't know any better might think you a bit, shall we say, obsessed? 

-Rishi


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2017)

rishi_sanyal said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



I suppose that scalablity and technical superiority are why memory manufacturers have jumped on the XQD format and it had ballooned from two manufacturers in the early days to one now?


----------



## rishi_sanyal (Aug 31, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> BeenThere said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Already fixed in an ACR update many many months ago.



Sporgon said:


> In another thread Privatebydesign referred to the sliding black point on a CR2 file as opposed to the fixed point on a NEF.



For years this has no longer been true. Nikons, Sonys all also have an offset which preserves noise levels around the black (SNR=1) floor. Canons just have a higher one, which hasn't really helped them (since it's not added at the analog level).



Sporgon said:


> i don't quite know what this means, but I do know that compared with Sony and Nikon raw files the blacks on the Canon are crushed down on conversion and generally require opening out. You then get a tonal quality similar to the other makes. Also to optimise IQ in the Canon it requires a moderate ETTR, even on the 5DIV it seems from my fiddling. If sample images are shot to produce an optimised OOC jpeg image, with no further PP, then the Canon is immediately thrown into a disadvantage compared with Nikon and Sony. As virtually all on line images are shot this way, attempts to compare say D810 files with a 5DIV result in the Canon appearing to be (slightly) inferior. Obviously there will be a greater gap with older Canon cameras. Also it looks to me that despite the a7RII using the BSI Exmor R sensor, Nikon's use of the older 36 mp Exmor sensor makes it the better one.



That's now how we do our DR shootouts. We ETTR our tests, ETTR'ing both the Canon and the Nikon and/or Sony. It wouldn't be fair to ETTR one and not the other, would it?

Your last point about the Nikon's older 36MP Exmor sensor being better - in what way? In base ISO DR, yes, but only because of ISO 64 mode, which effectively extends pixel capacity so the camera can capture more total light. But the a7R II's BSI + dual-gain design allows it to achieve better high ISO performance.



Sporgon said:


> Just why the CR2 files have this crushed black on conversion I have no idea. It is not a result of lower DR, and using crushed blacks to hide the poorer bottom end. Going back to the early days of digital by Nikon D200 was much better in dark tones than the 5D, but if the charts from the likes of Photon to Photos are to believed, it had much less DR. The 5D was harsh in comparison and needed the black point lifting in post, as have all the ones since.



If Bill's measurements show the D200 to have lower base ISO DR than the 5D, the D200 probably had lower base ISO DR than the 5D. That's how much I'd trust his data (more so than DXO, actually).



Sporgon said:


> This harshness in the dark tones, if uncorrected, does make it appear as if the Canon has less DR than it actually has, and is why (I presume) under exposing on the Canon is pretty disastrous if you intend to lift shadows later, whereas on the Nikon, Sony and Pentax (the ones I have worked files from) it doesn't really matter.



This doesn't change any dynamic range measurements. Canons tend to have more noise in their images, which affects shadows more than bright tones. That's why their shadows aren't as clean, as that's why their measured low ISO DR is lower than peers (though they've caught up quite a bit).



Sporgon said:


> As long as I'm not outside the DR I can make even my 5DII images look like those from a D810.



? Well, sure, when the DR of the scene doesn't extend the DR capabilities of your camera, it's total light capture that matters, which ends up being similar between FF cameras, save for the D810 at ISO 64 where SNR rivals some medium format cameras. Whether you'd notice that or not is another matter though.


----------



## Jopa (Aug 31, 2017)

rishi_sanyal said:


> I like to sleep with my cameras.



Oh wow. I always thought you are a secret Canon fan - just don't want the DPR peeps know this secret, but not like that... That's simply too much ;D


----------



## unfocused (Aug 31, 2017)

Jopa said:


> rishi_sanyal said:
> 
> 
> > I like to sleep with my cameras.
> ...



I recently read a story that cited an amazingly high percentage of teens who sleep with their phones. So it may not be as weird as we think.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 31, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > rishi_sanyal said:
> ...



Well mobile phones are used as alarm clocks by a lot of people, so it's perfectly sensible to sleep with them, or at least have them nearby. Don't you?


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 31, 2017)

rishi_sanyal said:


> Your last point about the Nikon's older 36MP Exmor sensor being better - in what way? In base ISO DR, yes, but only because of ISO 64 mode, which effectively extends pixel capacity so the camera can capture more total light. But the a7R II's BSI + dual-gain design allows it to achieve better high ISO performance.



Thanks for taking the time to go through my post. I was referring to low ISO and should have stated that.


----------

