# Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 17, 2015)

```
<p>We’re told that Canon is aiming for a March 2016 announcement for the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. Which will be just before the NAB show in Las Vegas in April.</p>
<p>We’re told that once the EOS 5D Mark IV is announced and shipping, that the EOS 5DS, and EOS 5DS R will get a relatively quick update by Canon standards. The new 5DS series camera(s) will get the new 5D4 body ergonomics as well as an updated image sensor, maybe a <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-develops-aps-h-size-cmos-sensor-with-approximately-250-megapixels/">version of this one</a>? . Yes, “quick” is a relative term, but it does make sense.</p>
<p>We keep hearing about an 18mp sensor we <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canons-full-frame-future-cr2/">originally reported back in the spring</a>, though we’re not sure what camera such a sensor could appear in, or if it’ll be a consumer product at all. With <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/the-nikon-d5-has-leaked/">Nikon putting a 20mp sensor into the D5</a>, I guess anything is possible for the EOS-1D X Mark II or a version of the EOS 5D Mark IV. It could potentially appear an upcoming full frame mirrorless camera from Canon as well.</p>
<p>We’ve received a few other bits of information about the EOS 5D Mark IV, but we’re waiting to hear more before we publish them.</p>
```


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## Alangeli (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Who wants an 18MP Canon EOS 5D Mark IV or mirrorless FF ?? :-(


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Alangeli said:


> Who wants an 18MP Canon EOS 5D Mark IV or mirrorless FF ?? :-(



Same people that want a 12mp high ISO sensor in an A7S


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## H. Jones (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

See, for me I'd choose 28 mp and slightly better ISO than 18 with super better ISO. I'm very happy with my 5D3's noise levels, I just photographed a wrestling match last night at ISO 16,000 and it looked darn good online and in the paper. 

Sure, we always downsize to 2,000 pixels on the long end for print, but the reality is that when I don't use a supertelephoto lens and only have my 70-200mm with me I will end up cropping, and it's much more functional to me to be able to crop into a better image than to simply have a lower-resolution image that really won't look too different in print/web uses.


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## sanj (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I dont anticipate 5ds/r being updated so soon. Highly improbable.


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## zim (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Canon Rumors said:


> We’ve received a few other bits of information about the EOS 5D Mark IV, but we’re waiting to hear more before we publish them.




Awww come on....... BOOOOO!!!! ;D


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## Chaitanya (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Eagre to see what kind of video features canon adds into the mk4. I record a lot of video of behaviour of cold blooded animals and for having 4K is just an option for maybe cropping in post to get more mag or correcting other mistakes.


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## Jesse (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Removed by Mod


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## PureClassA (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

18MP doesn't make any sense. I don't see that being received very well by 5 series users. Probably just a sensor they are using to test other features. Even if they did a breakout dedicated Cinema version, 18MP still doesn't make sense given even 4k is only 8.8MP. Why make a dedicated cinema camera with twice as many pixels as required? Sony has the best formula for that in the 12 MP A7s. I'd think Canon would want to go that direction if they did it.

And updating the 5DS a year after release? That WOULD be weird for Canon, although if they could now produce an even much better 50MP sensor, I suppose it makes sense. I would only hope they also create some sort of upgrade program for current 5DS/R owners.

Either way this is certainly shaping up to the Canon's Year of the DSLR. If March really is the 5D4 then that adds credence to the 1DX2 in January and perhaps even the 6D2 in late summer/fall.


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## gsealy (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

A lot, I mean A LOT of people are not going to be happy with a 5Ds upgrade after they spent the better part of $4K for the existing ones.


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## IsaacImage (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Its actually make a lot of sense ,
They got rid from old 5d mk III bodies stock with the new 5ds/r sensor inside.
And now once they made a few changes to 5d mk IV, Canon is going to address those changes to new 5ds/r.
And they will end up with some cash in hand once again


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## privatebydesign (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

18MP makes perfect sense in a 5DC.


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## PureClassA (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

If they make a dedicated cinema model (5DC), why would 18MP make sense? Why not just make it truly dedicated and go 12ish like Sony with 8.8 active for FF 4K? Not arguing. Just genuinely curious to your opinion.



privatebydesign said:


> 18MP makes perfect sense in a 5DC.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



PureClassA said:


> If they make a dedicated cinema model (5DC), why would 18MP make sense? Why not just make it truly dedicated and go 12ish like Sony with 8.8 active for FF 4K? Not arguing. Just genuinely curious to your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because 18 is 'better' than 12, simple as that, even if in reality it isn't. A 5DC would still be required to shoot great stills and three choices hits the consumer choice button.

5DC, 5D MkIV and 5DSR II, and drop the 5DS.


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## K (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I find the update to the 5DS line to be highly unlikely.

If it does happen, many who went out and bought the original and who are the types to always want the latest and greatest will dump those bodies.

Also, prices on the "old body" will plummet. Who wouldn't want an updated sensor and body? 

We might see 5DS old body clearance sales for near $2K. Resale for existing owners will be terrible and they will be pissed.

I doubt any of that will happen. 

I can definitely see a significant firmware update happening. But not a new body and updated sensor. If Canon decided on that body, they probably committed to offering it for at least a couple more years.

It will also anger existing owners. Canon isn't in the style of Nikon offering up incremental updates.

Who knows though?

Doesn't effect me. I never buy early on. I wait for prices to come down, and for bugs/recalls to clear first. I'm not in the market for a 5DS type body, but if i were, this kind of rumor would make me hold off a while.


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## PureClassA (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I hear ya. I just would assume that a dedicated C version would, like Sony, favor a non-binning 4k. Plus the 12MP would still take great images with fabulous high ISO. I not a big SOny fan, but I think they really hit a smart play with the a7S. I'd like to see Canon do something there.



privatebydesign said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > If they make a dedicated cinema model (5DC), why would 18MP make sense? Why not just make it truly dedicated and go 12ish like Sony with 8.8 active for FF 4K? Not arguing. Just genuinely curious to your opinion.
> ...


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## Stu_bert (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Tend to agree. 18MP would make sense if Canon are following their "tailored" approach to bodies, with the assumption that there will still be an all-round higher MP version.

If they can compete with the a7s (not better it, just compete), and they can keep their costs sensible by not having too many (core) differences, then it makes sense.

Replacing the 5ds - yes if they offer a conversion for a nominal fee, otherwise I cannot see Canon being this silly. Sony and Nikon would fall off their chairs laughing based on the negative press.

I just hope they have stuff available close to the announcement date and the review sites get quick access (other than Dxo, lulu and dpreview, lol)


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## Maximilian (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Alangeli said:


> Who wants an 18MP Canon EOS 5D Mark IV or mirrorless FF ?? :-(


I am more in the 18 MP camp than in the 30+MP camp. 
That's the reason why a 5 Ds/R exists and why Sony is splitting their a7 series. 

But right now you can only say that the rumor mill is starts rolling. Nothing more.


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## ahsanford (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

CR Admin, this is a pretty confusing posting in that three major product lines were referred to intermittently, alongside a fairly cavalier FF mirrorless 'by the way' sort of comment.

So, just distilling all that down, do we read this as:


There will be three-ish different 5D cameras in a future state - the high-res 5DS cameras (the current ones or a refresh someday), a more balanced natural successor to the 5D3, and a low MP 5D variant for video? 


The 1DX or 1DX II processor _might_ be in one of those two not-highest-res models?

Did I get that right? Is that what you were saying?

- A


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## roxics (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



PureClassA said:


> If they make a dedicated cinema model (5DC), why would 18MP make sense? Why not just make it truly dedicated and go 12ish like Sony with 8.8 active for FF 4K? Not arguing. Just genuinely curious to your opinion.



Debayering. So long as they capture the whole image and downsample to 4k in camera without line skippping or anything like that. 

Shooting 8MP for 4K is only going to give you 4:2:0 color. If you want 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 you have to start higher with bayer pattern sensors. 

Even if you are ultimately saving to a 4:2:0 file, you'll still get a better image if you start with more color space.


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## mkabi (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Updating the 5DS and 5DSR makes perfect sense to me...

Once the 5D4 comes out, canon wants to continue to sell 5DS and 5DSRs... If some one looks at the differences between the 5D4 and 5DS/5DSR... They don't want people to choose the 5D4 every damn time... 

If 5D4 is chosen every time.... Might as well stop the 5DS/5DSR production right now... 

As for the 18MP vs 12MP debate... If Canon is going to copy another company... I'd rather them copying panasonic's 16MP than Sony's 12MP... As well as drop this UHD crap... And support cinema4K.


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## Jesse (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

LOL you can't write the "f word" on here? 

.....


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## ahsanford (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



mkabi said:


> Updating the 5DS and 5DSR makes perfect sense to me...
> 
> Once the 5D4 comes out, canon wants to continue to sell 5DS and 5DSRs... If some one looks at the differences between the 5D4 and 5DS/5DSR... They don't want people to choose the 5D4 every damn time...
> 
> If 5D4 is chosen every time.... Might as well stop the 5DS/5DSR production right now...



Sure, but that won't happen. People who need 50 MP will buy a 5DS / 5DS R and people who need a 1-2 stops more high ISO or +2-3 more FPS will get a 5D4. There is a natural segmentation you get just from the spec sheet.

I would be stunned -- _stunned_ -- if Canon put something so gamechanging in the 5D4 _outside_ of the basic powertrain sort of specs (high ISO / fps / MP / AF system) that people who need super high MP would give it up for a lower res rig. 

Slick new features happen all the time (the 70D got DPAF, the 7D2 got anti-flicker and some viewfinder upgrades, etc.) but they aren't *so* exciting as to have you say: 

"Well, I _thought_ I needed high MP the most, but doggone it, the offering of onboard LTE and integral 'Dump to the Cloud' / 'Dump to Instagram' buttons are sufficiently awesome that I now no longer am enticed by resolving power. High MP sensors are *so* 2015. :"

The only single feature I could see that tectonically re-aligns the entire brand's segment preference like that is 4k. No matter what your preference on it is: love it, must have it, don't need it but would like it for future proofing, can't stand it, I only shoot stills, etc. -- that feature sells cameras.

- A


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## sleepnever (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I love my 5D3 for a great all around camera. The ISO performance is really damn good (though shadow recovery w/ the banding could be improved). I'm hoping the 5D4 warrants an upgrade from my 3, but at less MP, that won't even be an option. 

Again, happy with the low light performance as is, but would like to see a jump to ~28MP. When I'm not photographing the kids or going to the zoo for fun, I'm doing landscapes and a drop in MP would mean I wouldn't upgrade. On the flip side, I can't afford or justify owning a 5DSR *just* for landscape photography that don't yet bring any money in. SO, I really hope Canon makes the 5D4 with some solid upgrades and a slight MP jump. I'd love the extra resolution without going nuts.


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## JonAustin (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Jesse said:


> LOL you can't write the "f word" on here?



Even if you _could_, do you really think you _should_? Is it really necessary? Isn't the culture already crude enough?

Back on topic: 

I'm all for an 18MP 5DIV; I'm even willing to tolerate the included video features -- whatever they might be -- even though I'd be just as happy if it had no video capabilities at all, even though I know that'll never happen. 

I would prefer to buy a 2nd 5DIII rather than a 5DIV, if the MP count is substantially higher (i.e., anything higher than 24MP).


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## ahsanford (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



JonAustin said:


> I'm all for an 18MP 5DIV; I'm even willing to tolerate the included video features -- whatever they might be -- even though I'd be just as happy if it had no video capabilities at all, even though I know that'll never happen.
> 
> I would prefer to buy a 2nd 5DIII rather than a 5DIV, if the MP count is substantially higher (i.e., anything higher than 24MP).



There seem to be three camps on the 5D4 with stills:


The purists: those that adore their 5D3 and just want their 22 MP to do more -- either better in high ISO, perhaps more DR at low ISO, etc. But their message is clear: keep the pixel count around where it is to deliver the best possible IQ/noise performance.



The pixel peepers: these folks want the product to put up big numbers on a spec-sheet that say 'best in class', top dog, etc. Put a big number here (nut not so big as to take out the legs of the 5DS models), say 36 MP. More MP = more detail, = more competitive with the D750s and D810s of the world, = less buyers' remorse when competitive company X offers more pixels at the same price point, etc.



The pragmatists: those that recognize neither the purists nor the pixel peepers will get what they want. Canon will do that evolution-not-revolution thing they do so well and give a small MP bump (we keep hearing 28 MP) alongside key value-add features (anti-flicker, slight bump in burst rate, the 1DX II's AF setup, etc.) to get the 5D3 camp to upgrade.


I tend to think of the purists as dreaming, the pixel-peepers as petty, and the pragmatists as boring.

I am split. My 'want' is that of the purists, but my expectation of Canon is clearly with the pragmatists' view.

- A


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## Stu_bert (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



ahsanford said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > I'm all for an 18MP 5DIV; I'm even willing to tolerate the included video features -- whatever they might be -- even though I'd be just as happy if it had no video capabilities at all, even though I know that'll never happen.
> ...



Which is why there is a lot of support for them releasing more than one model...


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## ahsanford (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Stu_bert said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > JonAustin said:
> ...



Not for a 5D4, though -- _we're just expecting one of those, right?_

5DS / R = high res 

5D4 = all-around model, mid-level res + higher framerate

'5Dc' = low res / low light / video a la the A7S line

Isn't that the latest read of things?

- A


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## infared (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I definitely will not adopt a 5DMarkIV on intro no matter what is has or can do. I bought my 5DIII on intro for $3400...and now they can be had for sub $1800.... So...I am very interested to see what the new sensor tech may be as I am waiting to be impressed!....I love my 5DIII so much (I sold a 40"x60" print 30 days ago)...I will just wait a year or two with the new model until the price really drops down to something sensible if it's a camera I think that I "need" to own. (or just want! LOL). 
I would like to see a 24MP sensor max...but with vastly improved shadow capability. Hate to say it....but I would like to see "Nikon" or "Sony" blacks!!! :


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## K (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



infared said:


> I definitely will not adopt a 5DMarkIV on intro no matter what is has or can do. I bought my 5DIII on intro for $3400...and now they can be had for sub $1800.... So...I am very interested to see what the new sensor tech may be....I love my 5DIII so much (I sold a 40"x60" print 30 days ago)...I will just wait a year or two until the price really drops down to something sensible.
> I would like to see a 24MP sensor max...but with vastly improved shadow capability. Hate to say it....but I would like to see "Nikon" blacks!!! :




I'm not in the high resolution camp. I'd be happy with 24-28mp. Speed and file size is a concern. 

Low light, ISO performance is biggest concern. Better shadows would be nice too.


However, Nikon/Sony's "blacks" I don't like. They aren't as dark as Canon's. Less contrast. This has always been an annoyance in all these dynamic range comparisons. The blackest on the Nikon is like a middle-dark gray. It seems to me their sensors are tweaked to improve shadows at the expense of wider contrast.

What would Nikon/Sony shadows look like if those sensors could actually get a nice deep black?


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## Stu_bert (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



ahsanford said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



To me they are all 5D models. If they release a 5D MK IV and the 5Dc MK I, then to me all 3 are variants of the 5D - appreciate of course that the innards are different.

And would the "5Dc" at 18MP be close enough to the 5D III current MP for them to be happy? Given what Canon has done on the 5Ds, you would assume the 5Dc would have the same. So trade a few MP for better video / ISO ?


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## infared (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



K said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > I definitely will not adopt a 5DMarkIV on intro no matter what is has or can do. I bought my 5DIII on intro for $3400...and now they can be had for sub $1800.... So...I am very interested to see what the new sensor tech may be....I love my 5DIII so much (I sold a 40"x60" print 30 days ago)...I will just wait a year or two until the price really drops down to something sensible.
> ...



Hmmmm....I am not aware of that. Most of my reading says that the blacks are much better in those camps....I am not disputing you....I just am under a totally different impression, but will admit that I have no hard facts to back that up. Enlighten me?!?!?! 
The Nikon and Sigma "blacks" do have lower noise compared to my 5D Mark III for a given ISO....no?


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## ahsanford (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



infared said:


> Hmmmm....I am not aware of that. Most of my reading says that the blacks are much better in those camps....I am not disputing you....I just am under a totally different impression, but will admit that I have no hard facts to back that up. Enlighten me?!?!?!
> The Nikon and Sigma "blacks" do have lower noise compared to my 5D Mark III for a given ISO....no?



I am just sick of seeing side by sides where some person horrifically underexposes a shot, pushes it 4-5 stops in post, miraculously finds a picture hiding in there, and says "That's why I'm with Nikon (or Sony)."

It's a lovely parlor trick, but as an enthusiast and not a pro, 'saving my bacon when I completely s--- the bed' is not something I value so much. I sure as hell wouldn't convert all my stuff to another brand for something so nutty and left field as that. A pro whose livelihood depends on not blowing a never-to-happen-again shot (wedding receptions, reportage, wildlife, etc.) may feel otherwise.

- A


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## mkabi (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



ahsanford said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > Updating the 5DS and 5DSR makes perfect sense to me...
> ...



I am sure you right... BUT... We all know that MP isn't everything...
Think of it this way (all rhetorical, so you know the answers):
The difference between the 5D2 and 5D3???
The difference between the 7D and 7D2???
Now the difference between 5D3 and 5DS/5DSR? (I expect you to know that the difference isn't as great as the difference as the 5D2 and 5D3 or the 7D and 7D2)
So obviously the same differences between the 5D3 and 5D4, will be evident between 5DS/5DSR and 5D4, except for MP.


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## infared (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



ahsanford said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmmm....I am not aware of that. Most of my reading says that the blacks are much better in those camps....I am not disputing you....I just am under a totally different impression, but will admit that I have no hard facts to back that up. Enlighten me?!?!?!
> ...



I am not jumping camp either....I have 10 EOS-mount lenses for God's sake....I think you are going a little to the extreme with your "4-5 Stops" example ... I am an incredibly capable photographer...and many times when I pull up my shadows in a properly exposed image...they can be disappointing. It is not the end of my world...but I think that Canon is lagging there. That's all.
Having solid blacks in the shadow on a very adeptly exposed quality image could be better compared to some other offerings on the market in sensor tech, only. I am not trying to bash Canon...just stating what I think are the facts.


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## ahsanford (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



infared said:


> I am not jumping camp either....I have 10 EOS-mount lenses for God's sake....I think you are going a little to the extreme with your "4-5 Stops" example ... I am an incredibly capable photographer...and many times when I pull up my shadows in a properly exposed image...they can be disappointing. It is not the end of my world...but I think that Canon is lagging there. That's all.



I agree, you can absolutely see differences between Canon and SoNikon at less than those crazy 4-5 stops push examples. _I just don't think it's that important. _ When I'm staring at a comically wide DR scene that no sensor can handle, a single exposure (no matter how much you push it) won't work.

- A


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## infared (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I agree. Also....I am not going to run out and spend $4000 on a 5DMarkIV even if the shadows are vastly improve. ...I will wait a year or two. The 5DIII is a VERY capable camera for my needs. Very capable. 
In the end ...if you have a killer photo, no one has ever asked me what camera I shot it with when they are buying the print...they are just excited about the image, noise in the shadows be damned!!!! LOL!
...but we are tech nerds...that is why we come here...you kind of have to be to be good at the craft...but we need to keep that in balance...which is hard to do sometimes.


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## ahsanford (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



infared said:


> I agree. Also....I am not going to run out and spend $4000 on a 5DMarkIV even if the shadows are vastly improve. ...I will wait a year or two. The 5DIII is a VERY capable camera for my needs. Very capable.



This is Canon's major problem. How do you motivate people to drop another $4k when the new camera is 10% better than the last one? That's a tough value proposition.

Sony, on the other hand -- despite all the A7 platform's shortcomings _away_ from their sensors -- is slapping major consumer bait into all of these refreshes, things that are _more than 10% improvements_ in the eyes of some photographers:


4K
IBIS
Backside illuminated sensors
Massive AF upgrades (still not at DSLR's level, but a huge improvement)
Improved (though not perfect) AF with Canon glass on an adaptor

So this isn't a mirrorless or Sony 'grass is greener 'rant so much as it is a reality check on some of the things Canon _could_ be doing. Certainly a part of this is that Sony is up-and-coming while Canon is mature and established. Canon's stuff works so well that it's hard to drop an improvement bomb on a spec sheet that drums up massive interest. They just carefully (and shrewdly) put one foot in front of the other -- that can be a tough sell when you are asking $4k for it.

- A


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## K (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I'll add that the only possibility of Canon using new body and updated sensor for the 5DS cameras is if the existing ones have poor sales. But would that make sense? Would a body update and sensor update make the difference?

There wasn't a lot of time between the 5D3's sensor and the 6D's ...yet the 6D sensor is better. It benefited from whatever slight tech update there was between their development cycles. 

That could be true of the 5DS's sensor. Maybe the new one will go to 12800, or stay at 6400 max ISO with cleaner images? Who knows. If they update the 5DS, they ought to do the same for the 7D2 sensor. However, the 7D2 is a different body. That would mean upgrading a sensor in the same exact body as the predecessor.

There would be all kinds of confusion out there. People would start buying based on serial number range and whatnot to get the latest sensor if the model number doesn't change.

At least with the 5DS it would be a new body and differentiate from the old, even if model name stays the same.

Given the rating of a CR1, I'd say it ain't going to happen.

5DS sales have been decent from my understanding. If someone wants a poor-man's medium format, that's the way to go. Sure, even with 50MP it still is not medium format in many, many, ways - but the high resolution, large print folks have a body to go to. Pixel peeping against the D810, the 5DS is stellar. I doubt upgrade is coming. Canon is always proud of their releases and doesn't update often.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



sanj said:


> I dont anticipate 5ds/r being updated so soon. Highly improbable.



The only problem is if they don't then the 5D4 would be pretty constricted. Another old sensor in it? Same old video again?

I don't know. I'd love an A7R II in 5D form, but it seems unlikely. 5D4 might lack 4k and high MP. 5Ds lacks 4k and top low ISO DR and any sort of buffer for RAW mode action shooting (thanks to the crazy crop mode only works for JPGs).

The D820 though seems free to be an A7R II in DSLR form.

Maybe Canon will be willing to call the 5Ds and all a failed experiment and dump all the old stuff and truly take on a D820 as A7R II in DSLR form kinda camera. Not sure though. It does seem not so likely.

Anyway just glad we have Sony so at least we have a way to get high MP, high DR, solid video. Obviously that in a 5D3 class with the AF and nice RAW buffer and UI would be nicer, but hey at least Sony gave us some sort of way to get some of those features.


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## Jopa (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I have a little concern if they're going to update the 5ds(r) next year... It's almost "just released", and it's a lovely camera, especially paired with the 200/f2 and 300 f/2.8. But whatever, if they make the v2 with even better sensor (I assume better DR?) - I'm in, where do I pre-order?


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



ahsanford said:


> It's a lovely parlor trick, but as an enthusiast and not a pro, 'saving my bacon when I completely s--- the bed' is not something I value so much. I sure as hell wouldn't convert all my stuff to another brand for something so nutty and left field as that. A pro whose livelihood depends on not blowing a never-to-happen-again shot (wedding receptions, reportage, wildlife, etc.) may feel otherwise.
> 
> - A



Once again you make it sound like the main reason for the extra DR is to save the one of shots that get blown. While that can be very nice, for many that is not the main reason at all. There are plenty of scenes, that when exposed perfectly, simply need more DR. Don't forget that high DR monitors are coming out soon too.


----------



## JMZawodny (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I just hope all of the 5D variants and the new 1Dx2 come out reasonably close together or we at least get some firmer CR2 level spec rumors for each. Otherwise, I'll just try to sit on the sidelines until I can make an informed decision about which one(s) meet my needs/expectations/budget.


----------



## pedro (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Canon Rumors said:


> Alangeli said:
> 
> 
> > Who wants an 18MP Canon EOS 5D Mark IV or mirrorless FF ?? :-(
> ...



dead on


----------



## StudentOfLight (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I'd love to see sales figures:
5Ds vs 5Ds-R vs A7R-II
XC10 vs RX10-II


----------



## RGF (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

before I decide I would like to see what the 5D IV offers. Screen resolution, DR, high ISO performance.

I'll be very interested to see how the 5D IV complements the 5DS.

Also how the 5DS will be updated to include body features from the 5D IV.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Dec 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



privatebydesign said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > If they make a dedicated cinema model (5DC), why would 18MP make sense? Why not just make it truly dedicated and go 12ish like Sony with 8.8 active for FF 4K? Not arguing. Just genuinely curious to your opinion.
> ...


As a 5DS owner since October I would be Pi**ed off if a. they replaced the 5DS / 5DSr that quickly and b. if they dropped the 5DS not everyone wants to risk Moire. The cameras are £ 2999 / £ 3100 customers deserve some lifespan.


----------



## Tugela (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



jeffa4444 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



If the competition moves on, Canon does as well. Your camera won't stop working, it just will not be the latest generation any more. Given the option of (A) making you feel good by having a camera that is around a long time before being replaced or (B) being able to still sell cameras because a newer product is competitive, I'm pretty sure they are going to go with (B)


----------



## JMZawodny (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Canon has likely seen how successful Apple has been getting consumers to spend way too much on a new phone only to have it become "obsolete" a year later when the new model comes out. Their customers are not "p1ssd" because what they bought was the best when they bought it. A good number of them also upgrade religiously. Similarly, if Canon does indeed replace the 5Ds(R) with a newer better model soon, some who did not buy the original may buy the new one and a few of those that did buy the original will upgrade. Canon would be irresponsible as a company if they did not continue to entice folks to part with their money. This is how business works.


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Tugela said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



The 5DS/R share some of the 5D MkIII parts, this makes manufacturing sense, I'd be surprised if a 5DS/R refresh wasn't forthcoming a few months after the 5D MkIV to maintain that economy for manufacturing.


----------



## jarrodeu (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



jeffa4444 said:


> As a 5DS owner since October I would be Pi**ed off if a. they replaced the 5DS / 5DSr that quickly and b. if they dropped the 5DS not everyone wants to risk Moire. The cameras are £ 2999 / £ 3100 customers deserve some lifespan.


I would be a little irritated as well, however, it would do nothing to diminish the capabilities or reduce the lifespan of the 5DS that you currently own. It would all really be in your head. 

Jarrod

Edit: I see someone else said the same thing before me.


----------



## jrista (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Canon Rumors said:


> Alangeli said:
> 
> 
> > Who wants an 18MP Canon EOS 5D Mark IV or mirrorless FF ?? :-(
> ...



True, however classically the 5D line is a higher resolution line. I think a lot of people would be rather miffed if the 5D IV showed up with 12mp, regardless of how good the high ISO was. I think the 5D IV should land somewhere in the 24-28mp range, and if a high ISO monster with a more reasonable price than the 1D X II is desired, it should be a different camera...maybe the 6D II? Or 6D L (for low light)?


----------



## Mac Duderson (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

18MP! ;D I was just telling my buddy yesterday I would kill for them to go 18MP or 20MP most. Shooting weddings, it never ends buying drives for all the files and would hate having bigger files. Lots of my friends hated when Nikon went 36MP in the D800 and I jumped ship after years of shooting Nikon and ended up buying 5D2's which I still use today. I was already tired of Nikon's color for my style of shooting so that was the final straw. I still love everything about Canon's color in my 5D2's.
After lots of thought and testing I never upgraded to the 5D3's and REALLY hope the 5D4 is going to be under 24MP. If it is then I will finally upgrade. Pretty excited about this. ;D


----------



## kony (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Great, I hope 5D Mark III becomes cheaper now and I can buy it


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



JonAustin said:


> Jesse said:
> 
> 
> > LOL you can't write the "f word" on here?
> ...



I like the fact it isn't allowed here. 

Years ago a neighbor came over to the guy's house across the street as the guy was working on his car. The neighbor was cussing a blue streak. My friend, working on the car, very calmly sent his daughter and my daughter over to my house (They were 6). As soon as they were inside he beat the living daylights out of the neighbor and told him to never speak that way in front of women and children again. The neighbor apologised and we never heard him do it again.

These days too many men haven't any idea how to behave like gentlemen in from of women and children. Now the women are getting just as bad. Sad.


----------



## expatinasia (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > Jesse said:
> ...



Totally agree.

Back to the 5D Mark IV, while I have no interest in that particular camera I am interested in what possible updates the rumour is suggesting with regards to the 5DS and 5DSR.

This alone, makes me wonder whether this should be more CR1 than the CR2 which it currently is.

If they update the 5DS/R so quickly after release there could be a lot of very unhappy people around.

Or would they do what they did for the C100 and offer a paid upgrade - so it is still the 5DS/R and not the 5DS/R II)?


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I don't think updating a model makes the older model obsolete. I bought my 5D Mark III knowing it was getting ready to be replaced. It won't be obsolete to me until I decide I don't want to use it anymore. That's going to be several years away. It doesn't stop being a great camera just because something newer or "better" came along.

I'd sure hate to be Canon. On the one hand people gripe all the time that Canon is too slow to innovate. 

On the other hand are the people upset when Canon updates a model faster than they would like.

The only reason I can figure anyone who bought a 5DS or 5DSR would be upset by this is because maybe they can't walk around saying they have the latest and greatest anymore. If that is the case, then the camera is more about status than about making beautiful images.

Nothing wrong with that if that is what floats the boat for you. Just don't blame Canon.

You can please all of the people some of the time.
You can please some of the people all of the time.
BUT, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

The 5DS and 5DSR are still awesome cameras, right?


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



infared said:


> I agree. Also....I am not going to run out and spend $4000 on a 5DMarkIV even if the shadows are vastly improve. ...I will wait a year or two. The 5DIII is a VERY capable camera for my needs. Very capable.



I'm with you. I've found that the lenses make the biggest difference. Skipping a body upgrade or two can buy a lot of nice glass or other nice gear. Even gets close to buying a great white.


----------



## suburbia (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



jeffa4444 said:


> As a 5DS owner since October I would be Pi**ed off if a. they replaced the 5DS / 5DSr that quickly and b. if they dropped the 5DS not everyone wants to risk Moire. The cameras are £ 2999 / £ 3100 customers deserve some lifespan.



They are not going to cancel your camera!


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Not to disagree, but I do...

The previous thread was for 2 models, not an 18MP low ISO model only. the 5D IV would be the logical successor to the MK III

The 1Ds range is not High MP in comparison to the 1Dx but it was against the 1D - but I do agree it is about the target market - hence the view of 2 bodies

And the 5D range was not high MP either originally, sure it became that. The view was thus the Ds would have the high MP, the IV would continue to be the all around, and the C would be low ISO/better video.

Would there not be economies of scale based on the 6D II and other models which will have similar innards to avoid too many woes for Canon?

Fortunately we should all know by easter


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > Jesse said:
> ...



I really dont condone swearing in front of minors, but equally beating the heck out of someone shows the same level of intelligence. Sorry, such action cannot be justified. 

Banning swearing and having the report button is sensible. Posters can get very passionate and get lost in the "red haze" of their point, and it can get bad enough without the rest.


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Stu_bert said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > JonAustin said:
> ...



You are right. It isn't justified. Never said that though. One ex-con beating the other is normal in their world. Knowing them both like I did... the one getting beaten deserved it for a host of reasons. Justice in its rawest form.


----------



## Rupp1 (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



suburbia said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > As a 5DS owner since October I would be Pi**ed off if a. they replaced the 5DS / 5DSr that quickly and b. if they dropped the 5DS not everyone wants to risk Moire. The cameras are £ 2999 / £ 3100 customers deserve some lifespan.
> ...



You know what, I think I'd be pissed too if the 5DS/DS-R got replaced next year. It would mean that the current models were developed while their successors were almost at the production stage. Making money is great, but alienating your best customers is never a great idea. If it happens, I'd like to see an exchange offer for $500 or less. Yeah, yeah, I know, keep dreaming.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Dec 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



JMZawodny said:


> Canon has likely seen how successful Apple has been getting consumers to spend way too much on a new phone only to have it become "obsolete" a year later when the new model comes out. Their customers are not "p1ssd" because what they bought was the best when they bought it. A good number of them also upgrade religiously. Similarly, if Canon does indeed replace the 5Ds(R) with a newer better model soon, some who did not buy the original may buy the new one and a few of those that did buy the original will upgrade. Canon would be irresponsible as a company if they did not continue to entice folks to part with their money. This is how business works.


Apple iPhones are a lot cheaper than a 5DS/R and Apple normally sells versions of its previous years iPhone. As others state given R&D cycles Canon would have known before launch if it intends replacing the 5DS/R when the 5D IV comes to market thats very cynical and not what you expect at the high end. I think it unlikely they will replace them in 2016 but more likely in 2017 if they share the parts bin with the 5D IV. I think were see a form factor in the 5D IV not too disimilar to the MKIII the real benefits will come from the sensor & electronics not mechanics & ergonomics.


----------



## unfocused (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

At first I was sympathetic to those saying they would be upset if Canon were to replace the 5D-S next year, then I began to think about it.

By all accounts the 5D-S series are pretty spectacular cameras. I don't recall any owner complaining about these cameras on this forum. In fact, most of the comments have been laudatory -- with people surprised at how good they perform not just at lower ISOs, but at upper levels as well.

So, why get upset about having a great camera?

Besides, it is unlikely we will see any incredible breakthrough in sensor performance. The supposedly miraculous Sony sensors really aren't noticeably better in most real world shooting situations. No one is producing miracle photographs with Sony sensors. It's hard to imagine Canon coming up with a new sensor technology that suddenly makes everything that came before it obsolete. If that happens, we will all be dumping our cameras. But it isn't going to happen. Instead, any advancement is likely to be incremental and most noticeable at the extremes.

Even if a 5Ds II came out today, any smart buyer will wait at least a year to let the prices settle down. So, if you own a 5Ds now, you should be expecting to hang onto it for at least a year after introduction of any successor. My personal timetable is to try to wait until the new model shows up in the Canon refurbished store.

If you bought it for business reasons and have been using it to make money, you'd be paying for lost opportunities if you didn't have it. If you bought it for personal reasons, you would be missing the fun of having and using it for at least a year and most likely closer to two years -- which is priceless. 

So really, looking at it rationally and realistically, I don't think there is any reason to be upset.


----------



## brad-man (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

"...rationally and realistically...", you must be new around here...


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Since the 5DS and 5DSr cameras will be utterly worthless this spring... PM me for my address. I promise to give them a fantastic climate controlled retirement home completely protected from man made global warming, rising sea levels, and melting ice caps. I'll do it free of charge too. Don't let those old pieces of junk weigh you down. :


----------



## scottkinfw (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

This may be, but it seems like 12 mp will be a hard sell as we approach 2016!



Canon Rumors said:


> Alangeli said:
> 
> 
> > Who wants an 18MP Canon EOS 5D Mark IV or mirrorless FF ?? :-(
> ...


----------



## scottkinfw (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Maybe for the early adopters a firmware update or a relatively inexpensive factory upgrade can bring the camera up to parity?




gsealy said:


> A lot, I mean A LOT of people are not going to be happy with a 5Ds upgrade after they spent the better part of $4K for the existing ones.


----------



## scottkinfw (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Sure you can. F-stop. There, I said it.

sek



Jesse said:


> LOL you can't write the "f word" on here?
> 
> .....


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



No you didnt and nor did I intend to accuse you - but you quoted it, and in an incomplete form (which you have elaborated on now). In it's elaborated form it loses the same effect.

But I do still agree with you - swearing on forums, even when made in an abstract way, is wrong. I know I swear too much and don't realise, but that's no excuse...


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

@jeffa4444 & Dilbert

Sorry, disagree to a point.

Canon Product cycles are around 3 years for their Prosumer & Pro ranges. Have been for ages. In fact CR has stated that those cycles will probably get longer (less revenue, less investment, less people, longer cycles)

Any of the entry level kit - sure, that does get updated every 12-18 months, although I suspect a "high street" consumer, who does little internet research, would not realise that...

Anyone buying a 5Ds would have an expectation that Canon would not replace their model within a year. Canon might produce a 1xx version, sure. A 6xx version ? Highly unlikely based on target market. Canon's research has indicated that the 5xx form is the most profitable.

I cannot see them replacing it within a year/18 months without offering something to existing users.

Does Canon start the next Dev cycle before the current one is launched - for existing lines, sure. For the first model in a new line - perhaps 6-12 months later, as you want to see how well you assessed the target market.

In parallel I suspect they have R&D teams, one looking at all things AF and working on 3-4 versions of it, ditto sensors, Digic, video, lenses. Each Product Line Manager would then get to draw on whichever iteration is available as an individual model comes up for alpha testing and draws the line at features. It's clearly more involved then I've highlighted, but at 30,000 ft...


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> What's the shortest life span for a pro-level Canon DSLR?



Just over 15 months for the 1D MkII.


----------



## Orangutan (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Stu_bert said:


> @jeffa4444 & Dilbert
> 
> Sorry, disagree to a point.
> 
> ...



This all assumes that the new camera is part of a new R&D cycle, and not leftover from the old. Suppose they were ready to go with a world-beating 5DS, except for the next-gen sensor, which had a few problems to resolve. If they felt they couldn't wait for the sensor to be ready, they may have gone ahead with 7D2 sensor tech instead. I wouldn't mind having a 5DS, but I'm happy with my 70D for now, and will wait to see what comes next.


----------



## unfocused (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

One very simple explanation. We know the 5D IV will use the autofocus point selector lever from the 7D II. That alone would require a body change. To keep 5D production to a single body design, the 5D S needs to have that same feature. Thus a relatively minor feature /body change for the 5D IV would have a ripple effect.


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 19, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


Sorry about spoiling your fun 

As an aside to your three cameras, the 1Ds came out at a time when there was a frightening pace in tech advances, just look at it's predecessors, so even though it was a comparatively short lifespan it isn't surprising given the advances and Canon's ability to totally dominate the high end DSLR. And the 1D MkII and 1D MkIIN really were basically the same camera with just a relatively simple menu and screen refresh, not sure you could really class them as different models.

However, if Canon were to put the 5DS/R sensor into the 5D MkIV shell then you would be in a very similar situation as that 1D MkII/MkIIN, the current 5DS/R owners wouldn't feel so bad because it is the same sensor, which is 100% what that camera is about, and Canon would have their economies of scale in manufacturing. If they did the obvious and dropped the 5DS and only put the AA corrected 5DSR sensor in a 5D MkIV shell then those 5DS owners would have a unique camera that would go up in value, everybody would be happy.

I believe Canon were as surprised at the purchase rates of 5DS to 5DSR's as Nikon were with their D800 and D800e variants who now only offer the AA less D810, I think Canon will do the same and the sooner they could do that the sooner they reduce the different production models.

But what do we know? We are just pontificating basic high school economics, Canon might have more than enough shelved parts for 5D MkIII/5DSR/5DS production to continue indefinitely and supply expected repairs etc.


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 20, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Product cycles are around 3 years for their Prosumer & Pro ranges. Have been for ages. In fact CR has stated that those cycles will probably get longer (less revenue, less investment, less people, longer cycles)
> ...



My bad to you and PBD, I only based it on the MK IIIs. But if you look, as you clearly did, more are around the 3 year range than 12-18 months.

Re Entry level kit - again, you can indeed find exceptions. Now please tell me across the 1xxx, and XXXd ranges what the average is. 

My point, as you know, is that Canon's higher end kit doesnt change 12-18 months 

They have no obligation to offer a replacement sensor, I agree. I dont think they will have to, as I dont believe there will be a replacement during 2016. I'd be happy personally if there were, but I just dont think they will. And I think if they did, without offering something to the existing users, there would be an impact to their image.

Sony do it more regularly (every year? I dont follow them closely enough) - they've set that expectation. Canon and I believe Nikon are more conservative on their cycles, and becoming more so.

And since you have insider knowledge on Canon's product development, I'm happy Dilbert to be wrong a second time - although I only said "suspect". You clearly know how - I'm all ears


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 20, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Orangutan said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > @jeffa4444 & Dilbert
> ...



That wasnt quite my point - I surmised they have R&D cycles and product cycles, and therefore as you say, the 5Ds was indeed ready ahead of the sensor. They concluded to ship with the 7D2 sensor was acceptable and their target base would be "ok" with that.

Sensor tech continues to get improved within the R&D cycles. Specific products take the current sensor tech as their cycle dictates, or adjust their cycle.

I dont think the next product cycle for the 5Ds will be next year - only some 12-18 months after the initial release. I think Canon are too conservative for that. Sony would indeed release it - they appear to have set that expectation. Unless Canon are changing that based on the shrinking overall market - which I thought CR had said in fact the cycles may get longer.


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 20, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



No, I'm saying with my interpretation of their current approach to development means they wont replace it as soon as you suggest they might.

By the same token they released the C300 MK II with the same sensor tech.

Every release is a compromise. I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that the 5Ds will get the new sensor tech, and if indeed the jump is significant, then it will appear quicker.

My current view is 2017 not 2016, and that may change if the sensor tech in the 1Dx/5Dx is a step up as opposed to incremental.

You've still side-stepped the Prod Devl approach


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 20, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



It's the other way round for me - data and information drive my decision. You want to quote earlier models to refute, I've used later models. That's not selective, that's focusing on the recent.

Are you not selectively chosing which part of my conversation to dispute is therefore just PKB?

If you dont have an opinion, other to tell others "uh, no, it's not like that", then is that really a discussion?

If 2 years after the 5Ds, ie not before Jun 2017 put's me on the fence, then fine, I'll watch out for them damn pesky splinters 

But if the information at hand changes, ie they do make a step change (for them) in sensor, then it would be stubborn and foolish not to adjust.


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 21, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Stu_bert said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Stu_bert said:
> ...



You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky_* this time*_. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.


----------



## unfocused (Dec 21, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> ...
> You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky_* this time*_. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.



If you haven't figured it out by now, that's what this forum is all about.

Canon Rumors Guy prints something that will get people worked up and we get page after page of pure speculation based on peoples' limited personal experience which is seldom, if ever, relevant to the issue at hand. 

It's like the old saying: _Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small._

The cheapest DSLR made today is vastly superior to anything that was available during the first 160 years of photography. Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.

It's all very silly, but if you embrace the silliness, it can be entertaining.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 21, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



unfocused said:


> Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.



Are you saying that's not true? I vehemently disagree, and if I had more time I'd post a lengthy treatise describing every single thing wrong with your statement. 

But I have a meeting to attend, so I'll sum up briefly:

"Sony."

;D


----------



## Stu_bert (Dec 21, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



unfocused said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Damn you beat me to it 

It's a rumor site. I hope very few people take anything serious other than the launch annoucements and reviews. Lots of people give their view, some argue against views (some actually present an alternative view, others just say no/pick holes)

No one works for Canon, no one knows what their product strategy is but it doesn't stop anyone from some harmless fun guessing or pointing out others' mistakes

Amongst all that cogitation and regurgitation there are some genuinely useful posts. They also tend to have very little to do with the future...

But glad we've entertained you ;D


----------



## StudentOfLight (Dec 21, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



PureClassA said:


> If they make a dedicated cinema model (5DC), why would 18MP make sense? Why not just make it truly dedicated and go 12ish like Sony with 8.8 active for FF 4K? Not arguing. Just genuinely curious to your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


UHD+ is 5120x2880. (5K) 
While this is not a digital cinema display standard, the extra resolution could allow for cropping, panning and stabilization in post-.

If sensor is 3:2 aspect ratio then sensor would be 5120x3412 = 17.5MP


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 21, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



unfocused said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I beg to differ. It does take a $4000 camera and $3000 dollar lens to take a good photo and if my photos aren't perfect it is Canon's fault and I'm switching to Sony's mirrorless system! Canon never innovates and is a dying brand. They'll be out of business soon and Fuji is going to eat Canon's lunch.

Just kidding! ;D ;D ;D ;D

The entertainment value alone makes it worth it!


----------



## scottkinfw (Dec 22, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I don't think that the majority of prospective 5DIV buyers are interested in a high MP sensor. Also, I respectfully disagree that it is all about the sensor.

I would suggest that AF improvements, improvements in low light, modest increase in MP, more fps, is the general theme. I may be wrong.

sek



privatebydesign said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...


----------



## scottkinfw (Dec 22, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Welcome to the fray young lady 



CanonFanBoy said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 22, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



scottkinfw said:


> Welcome to the fray young lady
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been here a while Hyena. ;D


----------



## romanr74 (Dec 22, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> I like the fact it isn't allowed here.
> 
> Years ago a neighbor came over to the guy's house across the street as the guy was working on his car. The neighbor was cussing a blue streak. My friend, working on the car, very calmly sent his daughter and my daughter over to my house (They were 6). As soon as they were inside he beat the living daylights out of the neighbor and told him to never speak that way in front of women and children again. The neighbor apologised and we never heard him do it again.
> 
> These days too many men haven't any idea how to behave like gentlemen in from of women and children. Now the women are getting just as bad. Sad.



I am just plain shocked...


----------



## Phil Indeblanc (Dec 22, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Cussing in front of kids=bad
Beating up someone for it=stupid
Creating a strong value to vulgar words=even more stupid
5DIV going to 18MP without improving ISO/and other shortfalls on the 5DsR=Jump to Sony


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 22, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



scottkinfw said:


> I don't think that the majority of prospective 5DIV buyers are interested in a high MP sensor. Also, I respectfully disagree that it is all about the sensor.
> 
> I would suggest that AF improvements, improvements in low light, modest increase in MP, more fps, is the general theme. I may be wrong.
> 
> ...



Nether do I, but you are not reading what I wrote. I was making the point that for people interested in a 5DS/R instead of a 5D MkIII it is all about the sensor, because that camera *is* all about it's sensor.


----------



## MrToes (Dec 24, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

*We just can only hope that Canon will bring the rabbit out of the hat and show us they can still make a sensor like no other! They have the resources to do so, I don't know why they are letting sales go else where? Hell I've even bought the competitors D810 to see what is on the other side of the grass.*


----------



## RobPan (Dec 24, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.
> ...



Hmmm, I have replaced my stolen Canon camera with a Sony A7rII and am still able to make bad pictures.
Kind regards, Rob.


----------



## chauncey (Dec 24, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

The only way that Canon is going to improve picture quality is to elevate the IQ of the 8 inches to the rear of the camera.


----------



## penduboy (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Just sold my Canon 5d Mark II and now in the market for new Canon but not sure if i buy Mark III or wait for Mark IV or probably pick up Nikon D810. Currently Canon with 24-105 kit is about same price as Nikon kit with 24-120. Please help.

Thanks, Pendu


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Go to a camera shop and try the the D810 and 5D MkIII, the 5D MkIV won't be much different but as it isn't even announced yet let alone available (and even when it is will come with a hefty premium), I'd forget he 5D MkIV for now.

Both cameras are towards the end of their lifespan, both do their jobs very well and but for a very few technical applications the output from both is remarkably similar. Canon lenses are widely regarded as 'better', the Sony sensored Nikon is widely regarded as having a 'better' sensor. There are a lot of high end pros who use both so there really isn't anything to choose between them other than personal preference or if you need specific system capabilities, but if you need things like 17 TS-E's etc then you should already know that.


----------



## penduboy (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Hi Privatebydesign,

Thanks for your quick response. Yes, you a right, it will be an expensive switch as I have few Canon L lenses including 24-70 and 70-200 2.8 and Canon 600 flash.

I have not plan using Tilt shift or any specialized lenses in the near future.

I am not a professional and shoot portraits, landscapes and general photography for hobby. If there is no day and night difference between these two cameras, I guess, I should stick with Canon.

I have tried D810 in shop and really like the feel of it. Canon 5d Mark III, I assume will feel the same as my Mark II.

I like some of the features in Nikon like setting your minimum and max ISO range e.g. if you want your camera to stay in ISO 100 and 800 while shooting. You can also set minimum shutter speed on d810 but not sure if similar features exist on Mark III.

Also Mark III is about 4 year old and Nikon D810 is only year and half old.

Hard to decide. Appreciate any help to make up my mind.

Thanks, Pendu


----------



## RGF (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



penduboy said:


> Just sold my Canon 5d Mark II and now in the market for new Canon but not sure if i buy Mark III or wait for Mark IV or probably pick up Nikon D810. Currently Canon with 24-105 kit is about same price as Nikon kit with 24-120. Please help.
> 
> Thanks, Pendu



Hi pendu

Do you have much invested in either system? If you have significant investment in lenses and flashes that should guide your decision. Having a dual manufacturer system is expensive and can be confusing.

If you are basically starting from scratch I would pick one and stick to you. What type of shooting do you mostly do or want to do? That may guide your decision. Personally I favor canon but I am on this forum so that should not surprise you.

as far as 5D M3 vs 5D M4, on exists and is a known quantity, the is only a rumor. Do you want a camera know or can you wait 6 months.


----------



## penduboy (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Hi RGF,

I am a Canon shooter and have 17-40 f4, 24-70 2.8 Mark I, 70-20 2.8 Mark II and Canon 600 flash. I can sell these at some loss if D810 is worth to switch.

I can use the Nikon Kit 24-120 and buy replacement nikon lenses as I sell my Canon.

I read lot of reviews and youtube videos and learn that Nikon D810 has better DR and better camera overall compare to Canon 5D Mark III. But I am not sure about the quality of Nikon glass.

Man it is so hard to decide.


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



privatebydesign said:


> Go to a camera shop and try the the D810 and 5D MkIII, the 5D MkIV won't be much different...



How do you know the 5D MkIV won't be much different? It isn't even announced yet. 

I don't think it will be a 5D MkIV. They'll call it the 5DX w/ 10-12 frames per second, touch/swivel screen, DPAF, etc. The 1Dx MkII will have 20 frames per second. 

Of course, neither have been announced yet.


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Go to a camera shop and try the the D810 and 5D MkIII, the 5D MkIV won't be much different...
> ...



I don't *know* but Canon are, if nothing else, conservative and consistent. The 5D to 5D MkII was conservative, the 5D MkII to 5D MkIII, whilst being a very good upgrade, was again conservative. Why would the MkIV not be? The 5D line has a very strong history and marketing goodwill, there is no way on earth Canon are going to throw that away, there is no way they will ever make a "5DX" either, a 5DC possibly, but a 5DX never.


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



penduboy said:


> Hi Privatebydesign,
> 
> 
> I have tried D810 in shop and really like the feel of it. Canon 5d Mark III, I assume will feel the same as my Mark II.
> ...



Mark 3 fits the hand better than the mark two, the grip is ergonomically better. Also there is a significant upgrade in the build quality ( and weight). Definitely try one before you make your decision.


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> How was the 5D -> 5D Mk II conservative?
> 
> That step introduced ......a 75% increase in resolution.



The 5D image size in pixels is 4368 x 2912. The 5DII is 5616 x 3744 so the image is about 30% larger than the original, and so the increase in resolution is half that. So in this case a 15% increase.


----------



## Proscribo (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Sporgon said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > How was the 5D -> 5D Mk II conservative?
> ...


Someone was tired when writing this? 
When there's about 30% more pixels vertically and horizontally then there's total of 60% more pixels.


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Proscribo said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



No, I'm not referring to area, I'm referring to resolution in terms of vertical and longitudinal lines. The 5DII has around 14% more 'resolution' than the original 5D.


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Wrong. You too are confusing resolution with area, though I don't think Proscribo was referring to resolution with his comment.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



penduboy said:


> I read lot of reviews and youtube videos and learn that Nikon D810 has better DR and better camera overall compare to Canon 5D Mark III.



Ahhhh the Internet, the fountain of Truth. Many internet reviewers believe the D810 is a better overall camera _because_ it has more low ISO DR. It's also important to consider motivation. Internet reviewers put food on their table with revenue from ads and click-through purchases, so there's a financial incentive to recommending a newer camera. On the other hand, photographers put food on the table by taking good pictures, and more of them use a 5DIII than a D810.


----------



## penduboy (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Hi Neuroantomist,

Do you know if it is possible to set minimum and maximum ISO range for Canon 5d Mark III as we can don on D 810. Say I want to shoot manual and instead of setting my ISO to 100 can I specify camera to use Auto ISO but stay within 100 to 800 range?

Thanks, Pendu


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



penduboy said:


> Hi Neuroantomist,
> 
> Do you know if it is possible to set minimum and maximum ISO range for Canon 5d Mark III as we can don on D 810. Say I want to shoot manual and instead of setting my ISO to 100 can I specify camera to use Auto ISO but stay within 100 to 800 range?
> 
> Thanks, Pendu



Yes, on the 5DIII you can set a range (min and max values) for Auto ISO.


----------



## penduboy (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Excellent! Is it only available in Manual mode or can I use it in Av and Tv mode as well?

Also, can I set it to any numbers (of course within the Camera native ISO range) or do i need to pick predefined ranges in camera settings.

Thanks, Pendu


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

You can set values anywhere in the native (non-expanded) range – 100-12800 for minimum, 200-25600 for maximum. You are limited to full stop settings (e.g. 100 or 800, not 160 or 2500). 

The range you set generally applies in Av, Tv, P and M. If you mount a Speedlite or set Bulb mode, ISO is fixed at 400 (in Auto, you can manually set whatever ISO you want).


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



penduboy said:


> Excellent! Is it only available in Manual mode or can I use it in Av and Tv mode as well?
> 
> Also, can I set it to any numbers (of course within the Camera native ISO range) or do i need to pick predefined ranges in camera settings.
> 
> Thanks, Pendu



Pages 125- 127 of the manual.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/42005.pdf

I'd suggest downloading it from the link and reading it.


----------



## penduboy (Dec 26, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Thanks both of you for the confirmation. I think this is very neat feature and not sure if lot of people know about this. I googled it and couldn't find the right answer.

Thanks a lot, Pendu


----------



## Gino (Dec 27, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



I sure hope Canon doesn't cripple the 5D MKIV with a small buffer to the SD card slot, like they did with the 5D MarkIII! I just shot some action shots today with my 5D MKIII (shooting full RAW files to both card slots), and I forgot how bad the buffer is, especially compared to my 1DX!

Assuming the 5D MKIV will shoot 7 fps, it should have a buffer for at least 35 RAW files to be shot before the buffer is full!

My other big request for the 5D MKIV is easy to see red LED autofocus points in the viewfinder regardless of which autofocus settings are enabled. Black autofocus points are not exactly easy to see in poor lighting conditions!?!?

thanks


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 28, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



But you now agree the 5DII doesn't have 75% more resolution than the original 5D 
(In round figures it has 60% more pixels, produces an image that is 30% larger, and is capable of 15% greater resolving power). 

In the light of this revelation here's a little test for you: how much more resolution has the 50 mp 5Ds got over the 3 mp Canon D30 ?


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 29, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



That's just about everything, isn't it? That isn't the small thing you are making it out to be. Especially not the "details in those products" which is decided before manufacturing.


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 29, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



privatebydesign said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Never make a 5DX? Why not? If the 5DIV has a fast frame rate (Like the 7D II) why not name it the 5DX? Ten frames per second and an X on the end of the naming will not destroy the 1DX market. 

Yup, it is going to be a 5DX. 

The "IV" in the naming is bromidic. An "X" on the end of the name will make it a better camera and will shock and inspire even you. The "X" would bestow a certain cachet, don't you think?

Even better... the 5DZ!

A fast frame rate on the 5D line is sorely needed.


----------



## JMZawodny (Dec 29, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



Time to grab a bag of popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the fireworks ...


----------



## quod (Dec 29, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



neuroanatomist said:


> penduboy said:
> 
> 
> > I read lot of reviews and youtube videos and learn that Nikon D810 has better DR and better camera overall compare to Canon 5D Mark III.
> ...


Speaking of truth, what are your citations of authority for your statement that "photographers put food on the table by taking good pictures, and more of them use a 5DIII than a D810"? Your hubris has no bounds.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 29, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



quod said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > penduboy said:
> ...



Inference based on market share, manufacturer statements about sales of their FF models, and limited publicly available sales data. Feel free to argue the opposite point – I'm sure you can cite lots of claims of authority on how much more low ISO DR the D810 delivers, and we all know the huge impact that low ISO DR has had on market share over the years. 

Your pithy comments always add so much to these discussions!


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 29, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Anecdotal I know but round my neck of the woods wedding shooters seem to be about 6 Canon to 3 Nikon to 1 Sony. I don't have the slightest idea why each of them chose their particular option and I also know that is a very small sample.

Of very little interest to most I am sure but I see more Canon 200 f2/1.8 lenses than Sony cameras on the pro wedding circuit, indeed if the photographer is into exotic glass, 50 f1.2, 85 f1.2, 35 f1.4, 200 f2/1.8 it is exclusively on a Canon camera even though Nikon do make some of that range (though not enough).

For architecture they are all Canon and medium format, I don't know a single architecture shooter using Nikon or Sony.

For real estate Sony is making good inroads, I know several real estate shooters that shoot Sony.


----------



## Ozarker (Dec 30, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



quod said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > penduboy said:
> ...



I'm not sure you know what hubris means. Those are just the facts, ma'am.


----------



## xps (Dec 30, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

An mystic posting from Canon w a t c h.

http://www.*********.com/the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-might-not-be-what-you-expect-cw3/

Let´s have a look, what is coming....


By the way:
 canon w a t c h was erased after posting.... ist kindisch! Canon rumors forum is the most popular. I do not know, why they have to do this


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 30, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



xps said:


> An mystic posting from Canon w a t c h.
> 
> http://www.*********.com/the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-might-not-be-what-you-expect-cw3/
> 
> ...



Had a look at the report on *********; I'm still thinking that this is pointing to an interchangeable prism camera, one a normal pentaprism and the other an EVF. Two 'different' models that can actually be made the same as each other. Fitting the EVF automatically locks up the mirror and the sensor is equipped with DPAF, primarily for video but there's nothing to stop someone who wants to shoot stills that way. 

The reason I think that this would come to the 5 series rather than the 1 series is that it seems to me that 5 series are used much more for video than 1. 

Just seen that ******** has been changed to *********. Come on guys, you're not that frightened of them are you ?


----------



## pedro (Dec 30, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

I guess it's still up and it says:

_I guess this should be categorised under “weird rumor”. I would normally not give it much credit, but since it comes from a source known to me, I post it.

What’s going on with the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV? The 5D4 is likely the most secretive Canon DSLR I’ve seen so far. I am not even sure it will be named “EOS 5D Mark IV”. It’s the “Mark IV” that’s puzzling here.

The number four (4) is considered unlucky in Japanese culture because it is sometimes pronounced “shi“, which is also a word for death. Indeed, as far as I know, there is only one Canon DSLR having the “Mark IV” after the moniker, it’s the Canon EOS-1D Mark IV. If there are Japanese readers who want to add something, please do it in the comment section. I’ll be glad for any additional information. Should I have misunderstood something about Japanese culture (which I greatly esteem), then I apologise.

We might not see a EOS 5D Mark III replacement that’s a Mark IV version of this highly popular Canon full-frame camera. This may also give some sense to the many contradicting EOS 5D Mark IV rumors we saw during 2015, starting with a rumor I am beginning to take even more seriously, saying we will see two different models for the EOS 5D Mark III replacement. Canon already did a model split with the EOS 5Ds and EOS 5Ds R.

Will the EOS 5D Mark III replacement feature 4K video? That’s another controversial point. I got hints it will, but if the EOS-1D X Mark II gets 4K (and it is likely it will), then I doubt Canon will feature it also on the EOS 5D Mark III replacement.

One final thing. While the source I am citing here didn’t deliver any specs, it was suggested that the EOS 5D Mark III replacement will be “something very new” that breaks with the previous line-up. I don’t think this means the end of the EOS 5D series, but it might point to the beginning of a new line-up, even if it is still a “Canon 5D” DSLR line-up. Pretty confusing, isn’t it?

I was not sure about the rating of this rumor. I dare to give it a CW3+. And I am curious to know what you think about this.

5d41dx2_


----------



## kaihp (Dec 30, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



pedro said:


> _
> The number four (4) is considered unlucky in Japanese culture because it is sometimes pronounced “shi“, which is also a word for death._



Four have same negative meaning in Chinese, which makes sense because part of the Japanese characters were inherited from Chinese (the Kenji, if I got it right).
Japanese four: 四 Chinese four: 四 (sì [sharp/short downward tone])
Japanese death: 死 Chinese 'to die': 死 (sǐ [down-then-up tone]).
Transliterations of the Japanese four/death is the same (shi) as Japanese isn't a tonal language (Chinese is tonal).

OK, language class is over for now


----------



## whothafunk (Jan 5, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

People actually mix camera development and superstition. Please log off in the above right corner..


----------



## kaihp (Jan 5, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



whothafunk said:


> People actually mix camera development and superstition. Please log off in the above right corner..


When superstition becomes culture, it's worth considering - assuming you want to understand the culture.

You won't find row 13 on an airplane, or a 13th floor. That's superstition too, but you are just too immersed in the culture to notice it.

It's the same with China and Japan. They just don't like the number four: I have lived in Hotels that doesn't have floors with 4 in it (4, 14, 24, 34, 40-49, 54 and so on).


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jan 5, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



kaihp said:


> pedro said:
> 
> 
> > _
> ...


There is another version for 4 in Japanese. It's called "yon". There is also a famous camera called the 1D Mark-IV ... So it appears that any argument of Canon not willing to 5D Mark-IV is not based on evidence and reason.


----------



## jrista (Jan 7, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



pedro said:


> I guess it's still up and it says:
> 
> _I guess this should be categorised under “weird rumor”. I would normally not give it much credit, but since it comes from a source known to me, I post it.
> 
> ...



I don't buy into this. Canon has had different names for different camera models in different countries in the past. If there is a superstitious connotation to the number 4 in Japan and China, Canon could easily name the camera something different in those countries, however I suspect Canon USA, as well as US customers, would still prefer the 5D Mark IV moniker for this camera. Nothing else really makes sense. The 5D X skips far too many numerals, as were not at the tenth incarnation of this camera yet. Skipping the fourth and going to the fifth doesn't really seem logical either because you'll leave a huge number of countries around the world wondering what happened to the 5D 4. If your going to skip numbers, and it's all based on superstition, why not skip to six, which is considered a lucky number among many superstitions (including Chinese mythologies)? 

Eh, I'm quite skeptical that Canon will skip the number 4 because of some regional superstitions. Even if they do, Canon USA and Canon Japan have often named cameras differently (just look at the Rebel line), and I figure that is probably a more likely outcome.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 7, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

D500 also does 4k so what the heck is Canon's excuse with all the talk about how they still see 4k as only a 1DX2 level feature if the rumors are to be believed?

And the Sony A7R II already delivers not just 4k, but oversampled very high quality (other than being unfortunately stuck at 8bit instead of 10bit) 4k.

Oh and then with Canon's latest not low end P&S they were bragging about how it had 720P video (and it has no RAW stills)!


----------



## gibbygoo (Jan 8, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Any ideas on what KIND of 4K video might be available in the 1dx2 & 5D4? Would it be on par with the 1DC? Or more like the gimmicky 4K of a smartphone, drone cam or GoPro? 

I'm guessing it will be an 8-bit, 4:2:0 pixel-binning, moire mess like like every video-capable DSLR (not counting the 1DC, which is 24p only), but I'd be delighted to be wrong.

Seems that thus far, not a single DSLR or prosumer mirrorless camera can produce anything internally (at any resolution) beyond 8bit/4:2:0. Is that true? Seems like that would be no more difficult than making a camera that can shoot 4K.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 8, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



gibbygoo said:


> Any ideas on what KIND of 4K video might be available in the 1dx2 & 5D4? Would it be on par with the 1DC? Or more like the gimmicky 4K of a smartphone, drone cam or GoPro?
> 
> I'm guessing it will be an 8-bit, 4:2:0 pixel-binning, moire mess like like every video-capable DSLR (not counting the 1DC, which is 24p only), but I'd be delighted to be wrong.
> 
> Seems that thus far, not a single DSLR or prosumer mirrorless camera can produce anything internally (at any resolution) beyond 8bit/4:2:0. Is that true? Seems like that would be no more difficult than making a camera that can shoot 4K.



And therein lies the rub, the devil is not in the headline features, it is in the detail of those features. All 4K is not equal, neither is AF capability measured by the number of points you have, the spread, type and sensitivity are far more important, but 150 sounds so much better than 60!


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## K-amps (Feb 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

Chatter on the 5d4 gone quiet....

Are we still on for a "relatively quick" update on the 5Ds ?

Canon is touting latitude for the 1dx2, is that a veiled reference to better base iso noise? If so, I would be very excited about an updated 5dsr... or 30mp 5d4... heck I would consider buy some new lenses along with that. a 17 TSE and MPE-65 seem very interesting.


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## Maiaibing (Feb 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



K-amps said:


> Chatter on the 5d4 gone quiet....



It will come - but thankfully I'm not waiting for it anymore...



K-amps said:


> Are we still on for a "relatively quick" update on the 5Ds ?



? We are in 2016 not 2020


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## Luxter (Feb 17, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



K-amps said:


> Chatter on the 5d4 gone quiet....



I am hoping for some more rumors on the 5DX/5DMkIV now that the 80D specs have been released


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## K-amps (Feb 21, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Maiaibing said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Are we still on for a "relatively quick" update on the 5Ds ?
> ...



There was mention that this might happen, personally I think it should. If Canon has put the ADC on Die... and it does provide the 'latitude' they claim (another veiled reference in the 80D, about new miniaturization process) then they could kick start the 5 series this year, with a new 5d4 all-rounder (D750 killer) and 5Ds Hi-Rez Hi DR Landscape body plus an updated 7Dii to combat the D500. They can be called the 5D4, the 5DSn and the 7Diin.... in proper Canon Tradition....


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## Ozarker (Feb 21, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



Rupp1 said:


> suburbia said:
> 
> 
> > jeffa4444 said:
> ...



Aren't Canon's best customers the 1DX owners with loads of L glass? I'm not trying to be a smart alec. 

Honestly, it is my guess (and only my guess) that the Rebel owners are Canon's best customers. Nice inexpensive DSLRs (for the masses) with very low manufacturing costs, with probably a much higher profit margin and fantastically higher sales volume. At high school sports events they are everywhere. Even the teenagers are running around with them.

Dummy me, I went through 2 Rebels (XSi, T5i), mountains of EFs lenses, then went to my 70D (which I really like) and finally the 5D Mark III and all L glass except for the stm lens that came with the T5i.

I remember buying the XSi kit at Costco and thinking to myself that I had a real luxury item and could never imagine buying anything else. It really seemed like a lot of money for a camera. My wife was pissed! She almost never gets angry, but she was over that little XSi.

My point is this: For about four years you could say I was one of Canon's best customers. Unless I win the lottery I won't be getting the 400, 600, or 800 great whites (I would dearly love to get those. At least the 600) I won't be getting the other 8 / 600EX-RT speedlites I want either (Just to say I did and watch my sweet wife roll her eyes at me). 

The only things I could imagine upgrading at this point is a new body every 6 or 7 years. That makes me a nearly used up customer.  Me upgrading a body every 6 or 7 years means little to Canon in the grand scheme of things. It was getting me to this point that meant something to them. Mission accomplished.

If I am happy with the camera body I have I don't care if Canon brings out something better the next week. For me, skipping a generation or two on a body makes a lot of sense to me right now. 

It is the glass I really care about. Except for not having the Great Whites... I am very happy where I am. I truly am blessed to have what I have. Got it all before career ending injuries got me last year. Couldn't even get a nifty 50 right now if I wanted one. But I am happy and that is a nice place to be. I get to hug and kiss my sweet wife of 34 years every day.

I can make some pretty darn good photos with what I have. Upgrading bodies every 4 years won't change that.  Be happy you have what you have. That next upgrade might not be in your future. I live on $990 a month now. I'm lucky to keep the lights on every month. Thankfully the internet is included in the rent.

My challenge is going to be trying to turn my hobby into a money maker. I've got to do that with what I already have and the soccer moms with their Rebels are brutal ($35 for a shoot and disk of photos?). Got to carve out a niche that they are not covering.  (And no... I will not do weddings!) I think there is a niche for fine art portraits in the area. Soccer mom's can hardly compete with that.

Still, when new gear comes out... dreaming is very nice. 

Actually, I would love 2 more Flashpoint Streaklights. They are real nice. I mean REAL NICE. I'd trade two 600EX-RTs (Maybe three) for two of those... even steven.


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## tron (Feb 21, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



sanj said:


> I dont anticipate 5ds/r being updated so soon. Highly improbable.


I agree with you. It's too early for this. I believe Canon will let them be for a period of 2.5 to 3 years (from release) at least.


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## K-amps (Feb 21, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



CanonFanBoy said:


> Rupp1 said:
> 
> 
> > suburbia said:
> ...



Thanks for sharing your perspective.

I am humbled by your positivity ... you inspire the rest of us. Being grateful is the first step to being content.

I hope you get lots of work, taking great shots.


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## K-amps (Feb 21, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



dilbert said:


> Rupp1 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



That's what I think... they didn't want to become irrelevant to new buyers who are getting excited by the sparkle of innovation in those other non-canon companies. Canon IS after all in the business of making money, and any customer it can get hooked is a revenue stream.

My guess is, they did not have the ADC on Die process ready, and the 5D3 being a bit long in the tooth and lower res than the other bodies (that shall remain nameless), decided to do a stop gap, and did a pretty good Job overall....


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## brianb (Feb 21, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*

There has been nothing mentioned about the 5D4 for a while now.

Will we see an announcement this quarter?

I wish I knew, so I could make a decision on what to purchase.


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## tron (Feb 21, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



K-amps said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...


I would like that although I do not consider it likely. But I believe Canon will be forced to release new updates in much less than 4 years (between releases).


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## time123 (Feb 22, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



brianb said:


> There has been nothing mentioned about the 5D4 for a while now.
> 
> Will we see an announcement this quarter?
> 
> I wish I knew, so I could make a decision on what to purchase.



I posted this in another topic but if I had to guess I'd say sometime this summer some definitive details will emerge. Release dates are getting spread out further and further though.

Camera = Announced

1DXII = 2/1/2016
5D4 = ?

1DX = 10/18/2011
5D3 = 3/2/2012

1D4 = 10/20/2009
5D2 = 9/17/2008

1D3 = 2/21/2007
5D = 8/22/2005


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## tron (Feb 22, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



time123 said:


> brianb said:
> 
> 
> > There has been nothing mentioned about the 5D4 for a while now.
> ...


Hmmm, lets see: 

5D -> 5D2 3 years
5D2-> 5D3 3.5 years
5D3-> 5D4 4 years? ? ? ? ? ? (I hope!)


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## Maiaibing (Feb 26, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]*



tron said:


> I would like that although I do not consider it likely. But I believe Canon will be forced to release new updates in much less than 4 years (between releases).



Canon has stated the opposite is their strategy: fewer updates, bigger leaps.


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