# Rumored RF mount Cinema camera specifications [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 5, 2020)

> As previously reported, Canon will be announcing a Cinema EOS camera with an RF mount, likely in late August ahead of when IBC is usually held.
> *Canon RF mount Cinema EOS camera rumored Specifications:*
> 
> Same Super35 sensor as the Canon Cinema EOS C200
> ...



Continue reading...


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## marathonman (Aug 5, 2020)

The obligatory "Canon is *******" comment ;-)


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## analoggrotto (Aug 5, 2020)

First Overheat Alert! Paging EosHD!

RED Komodo is shipping with EF-RF mount right?


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 5, 2020)

Yes but can it shoot 45 MP raw stills at 20 fps and unlimited 8k????


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## StandardLumen (Aug 5, 2020)

I'm sure this camera will be really good, but the R5 whet my appetite, I was hoping for an 8k RF cinema cam.


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## H. Jones (Aug 5, 2020)

This honestly sounds like a very workable, tangible camera. Surprised to hear it's smaller even than the 1DX, I'm guessing a similar build to the XC-15?


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## jam05 (Aug 5, 2020)

Smaller than the 1dx however "Cine" means this camera WILL have a fan. EOS line and not camcorder means it's not an XC


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

Wow. Drool. Crap and *$R#$& (says my wallet)


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## jam05 (Aug 5, 2020)

H. Jones said:


> This honestly sounds like a very workable, tangible camera. Surprised to hear it's smaller even than the 1DX, I'm guessing a similar build to the XC-15?


I was thinking the same thing however the XC-15 isn't exactly smaller than a 1Dx and its not within the EOS Cine line. C100R maybe?


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 5, 2020)

Full size HDMI make me happy. 

Keeping expectations leveled


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 5, 2020)

StandardLumen said:


> I'm sure this camera will be really good, but the R5 whet my appetite, I was hoping for an 8k RF cinema cam.


Can I ask what the use case was for 8K?


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

Now if we can just get IBIS on this... and the DP2 AF.... the perfect camera (for me). and a perfect compliment to my R5.


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Full size HDMI make me happy.
> 
> Keeping expectations leveled



The whole list of specs is giving me a hard one


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

YEAH BABY!!! YEAH!!!!


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

SDI port would be nice too...


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> RED Komodo is shipping with EF-RF mount right?



Komodo has a RF mount. the stormtroopers are shipping w/ the canon ef-rf control ring adapter.


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> YEAH BABY!!! YEAH!!!!



i read the spec list again, and wet my pants again. I feel SO happy now that i spent the past 3 months selling all my E-Mount and M-mount cameras and lenses and switched fully to RF/EF.


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## Rocksthaman (Aug 5, 2020)

Love the camera, also makes more sense why R5 is programmed to be “overheating” when cool to the touch.

Makes me feel more comfortable buying more RF glass, still not a huge fan of focus by wire though.


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## Bdbtoys (Aug 5, 2020)

Got to say I wasn't in the market for a dedicated video camera, but one that natively takes RF glass...


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> SDI port would be nice too...



yeah i'm ready to move on from HDMI. but i'll take it. please take all my money canon. oh wait you already did with the r5 + lenses....


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## analoggrotto (Aug 5, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> Komodo has a RF mount. the stormtroopers are shipping w/ the canon ef-rf control ring adapter.


Not that it would happen but a multi-line long term collaboration b/w CANON and RED would burn the segment down faster than a dozen R5s in death valley.


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## Pascal Parvex (Aug 5, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Can I ask what the use case was for 8K?



First, reframing. Second, my new 8K LG Nanocell TV.


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Not that it would happen but a multi-line long term collaboration b/w CANON and RED would burn the segment down faster than a dozen R5s in death valley.



i'm on the list for a stormtrooper, and received my r5 on saturday. I don't konw how i'm going to explain this extra one to my wife. i haven't even told her i'm gonna buy the ST yet either....


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 5, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> i'm on the list for a stormtrooper, and received my r5 on saturday. I don't konw how i'm going to explain this extra one to my wife. i haven't even told her i'm gonna buy the ST yet either....


Where do you get on a list?


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Where do you get on a list?



had to sorta-sign-up a while ago, no idea what the requirements were but was surprised i was slotted one. i think the list is closed since a coupel weeks ago, so now have to wait for the production model. but given alto of people are still waiting fo teh ST gonna guess its not until later this year. probably this RF camera will come along long before.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 5, 2020)

I mentioned something similar and I got scoffed at.


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## bhf3737 (Aug 5, 2020)

Nah. It may do what is promised, but that's not enough!!


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## Bukozik (Aug 5, 2020)

С100 m3?)


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## padam (Aug 5, 2020)

Maybe it will look like the XC15 without a lens and with a built-in vertical grip which will help with cooling besides housing the two batteries (like with the GFX100).

With the crop sensor, it's going to undercut the Sony FX6 by quite some margin, it won't have much direct competition.


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 5, 2020)

StandardLumen said:


> I'm sure this camera will be really good, but the R5 whet my appetite, I was hoping for an 8k RF cinema cam.



The R5 will burn your threat dry!! LOL!


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

Ya’ll gotta get on the CR Discord server.


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## diveguy (Aug 5, 2020)

How would this camera compare to the current C200?


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## derpderp (Aug 5, 2020)

Hmmmm sounds like a R5c to me. (Cue Sony fantards saying it will overheat)


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 5, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Camera size smaller than the EOS-1D X Mark III



Interesting if true. 

I still want the full frame 4K variant in the smaller form factor, so this bodes well for future cinema bodies. Packing all that power into a smaller and lighter package is pretty exciting.


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## padam (Aug 5, 2020)

diveguy said:


> How would this camera compare to the current C200?


It's a much newer camera, so a big step up in technology (10-bit internal 4k120p recording to CFExpress cards) and portability (smaller and lighter) but a step down in handling and build (more internal ND, full-size XLR, SDI connection and a bigger battery on the C200)


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## AdmiralFwiffo (Aug 5, 2020)

EF-to-RF speed-booster not working on current RF bodies? Bummer; was looking forward to using it on the R5 in crop mode.


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

AdmiralFwiffo said:


> EF-to-RF speed-booster not working on current RF bodies? Bummer; was looking forward to using it on the R5 in crop mode.


yeah i was wondering how they would make it so different that it woudln't work w/ another camera with teh same mount. Maybe has to do with some specific design relevant to the internal ND squeezed into a small area?


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## freejay (Aug 5, 2020)

This sounds like the first small sized and (at least for me) affordable Cine camera. The R5 obviously can't do this to the full extent. So I'm very excited!


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

I wish they would jsut make a slightly alrger, cooled R5 body with a bit improved 60/120p. i'd pay alot for that.


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## john1970 (Aug 5, 2020)

All I can say is wow! I just wrote my contact at my local shop to let them know that I am interested in purchasing. For video work this will be an amazing camera. As others have noted this is the first Cine camera that is affordable by my standards. I also really like the fact that is is rumored to use the same batteries as the R5. It will be great to have two separate systems using the same batteries! I just hope that it offers internal RAW recording like the C200.


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## nikkito (Aug 5, 2020)

I CANNOT WAIT TO BUY IT *TO TAKE PHOTOS!!!! *


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## Go Wild (Aug 5, 2020)

If they launch it like the specs, this will be the partner for the EOS R5. Damn, what a team!!


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## Twinix (Aug 5, 2020)

Interesting. Hopefully it will have good ergonomics, and personally I prefer the BPA-batteries so I can get them with D-tap and power lights and monitor from that, plus LiveU etc. Also not a fan of Mini XLR. That beeing said, its not a dealbreaker and as long as it has 10bit 4k 50p I’m happy. Of course without overheating, and hopefully the R6 doesn’t do that for me when I get to test it, for my usage (Hybrid, both photos and longer video takes).
Right now I have the XA50, and it works great and how I want it to, but I definitely want to step up as my road continues. When I bought it it was from the standpoint of Canon vs Panasonic vs Sony and the cinema lineup + b-cam, and I like Canons lineup the most. Sony is definitely doing good now for me, with the A7s iii having good menus, autofocus, colors (apparently vs before), grip and XLR module. If they get a FX6 or similar to the Fs5 with the same improvements as the A7s ii had to the A7s iii, they’re definitely really head on to Canon for me. So can’t wait to see more from Canon, but as of now, I’m not “locked” in to Canon as I only have one camera from them. A B-cam is next for me, and I’m not going to replace the XA50 with a Sont equivalent, anyways it would need to have good AF.


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## Etienne (Aug 5, 2020)

diveguy said:


> How would this camera compare to the current C200?


Cheaper and smaller, and it will probably after IBIS.


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## Go Wild (Aug 5, 2020)

Twinix said:


> Interesting. Hopefully it will have good ergonomics, and personally I prefer the BPA-batteries so I can get them with D-tap and power lights and monitor from that, plus LiveU etc. Also not a fan of Mini XLR. That beeing said, its not a dealbreaker and as long as it has 10bit 4k 50p I’m happy. Of course without overheating, and hopefully the R6 doesn’t do that for me when I get to test it, for my usage (Hybrid, both photos and longer video takes).
> Right now I have the XA50, and it works great and how I want it to, but I definitely want to step up as my road continues. When I bought it it was from the standpoint of Canon vs Panasonic vs Sony and the cinema lineup + b-cam, and I like Canons lineup the most. Sony is definitely doing good now for me, with the A7s iii having good menus, autofocus, colors (apparently vs before), grip and XLR module. If they get a FX6 or similar to the Fs5 with the same improvements as the A7s ii had to the A7s iii, they’re definitely really head on to Canon for me. So can’t wait to see more from Canon, but as of now, I’m not “locked” in to Canon as I only have one camera from them. A B-cam is next for me, and I’m not going to replace the XA50 with a Sont equivalent, anyways it would need to have good AF.


I would also prefer xlr ovre mini-xlr, but also not a dealbreak to me. I wonder if the external output will be over SDI or HDMI but I guess it will be SDI. If it was HDMI would be fantastic because we could use a smaller external recorder like the Ninja V, otherwise we are stuck with the Shogun Inferno and shogun 7


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## Twinix (Aug 5, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> I would also prefer xlr ovre mini-xlr, but also not a dealbreak to me. I wonder if the external output will be over SDI or HDMI but I guess it will be SDI. If it was HDMI would be fantastic because we could use a smaller external recorder like the Ninja V, otherwise we are stuck with the Shogun Inferno and shogun 7


Hopefully we can get both HDMI and SDI, and if its mini XLR, a full size XLR hot-shoe module (like Sony or Panasonic, or for the Xc15) would be great, or if it is in a handle camcorder style. Hopefully the screen will be in a good position for handheld operation etc.


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## Stanly (Aug 5, 2020)

Hi everyone! New here, 0 Canon gear at the moment. Felt the need to post because me and many of my colleagues are seemingly underrepresented here.

Am waiting for almost 2 years already for Canon to make the RF switch possible! But I get the feeling :this camera is not it" again ...

What I need is (and these are all possible things):
- full frame (for lens resolution, wide angle, versatility and low light)
- sensor stabilization (to remove micro-jitter from holding a lightweight camera)
- good quality 4K video with preferably high frame rates
- ability to take photos (not to swap lenses to a different body and re-compose)

This upcoming camera does only one of those things. R5 would be perfect if it had predictable overheating and recovery while filming in regular modes. I can live with line-skipped 4K for most of the time having the 20-30 minutes of 120fps for b-roll and oversampled 4K for detailed scenes. But as is – you can end up having 0 minutes of those modes and camera won't recover unless it's turned off for over an hour. The other issue is no timeline for C-log 3, with the regular C-log limiting the dynamic range.

It's easy to tell me to go buy some other brand (because other brands do all those things), but the only way for Canon to get my 5000-10000€ for cameras and 13000-15000€ for lenses in the next 2 years is to make an R5 that doesn't overheat or for this cinema camera to be full frame with stabilization, which it won't be if it has C200 sensor.

I sincerely congratulate everyone who got the R5 and am happy that it fulfills your requirements, I just wish there were more people Canon RF cameras were satisfying for.


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## Arod820 (Aug 5, 2020)

Komodo who?


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## BeenThere (Aug 5, 2020)

Stanly said:


> Hi everyone! New here, 0 Canon gear at the moment. Felt the need to post because me and many of my colleagues are seemingly underrepresented here.
> 
> Am waiting for almost 2 years already for Canon to make the RF switch possible! But I get the feeling :this camera is not it" again ...
> 
> ...


I’m just happy that Canon went the route that they did so that I was able to get an afordable, small, weather sealed, IBIS enabled, state of the art AF, 45 Mpixel stills shooting Camera. Oh, and as a bonus I get awesome video clips occasionally. Don’t get me started on how great the Canon lens selections are for this Camera, both my existing collection and new class leading lenses being released at a fast pace. Just can’t please everybody I guess.


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## mariosk1gr (Aug 5, 2020)

If it is going to be R5C then it should shoot still IMO just like 1DC did back then. But if it's the same sensor as C200 then it won't shoot stills. I hope it won't be a xc15 body. I prefer R5C with all features that R5 has and a built-in fan to anticipate heat and provide unlimited recordings. I find it difficult to be done to be honest. If it's going to be a C100 Mark III from the other hand the LP-E6NH batteries are not enough for sure. SDI also is a must! I think we are going to see a new design body that will get into Cinema line. Pretty sure that it will be step-up from C200 regarding image quality.


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## Mark3794 (Aug 5, 2020)

I wonder if all the people that screamed "overheating" will buy this


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## Twinix (Aug 5, 2020)

Let the new cinema-camera be a proper one like the rest of the line, and make/fix/release a R5c and/or R6C with cooling/extra feature grip/body. That can be the easiest solution for gimbal plus photo use etc, whilst the cinema line has the good ergonomics.


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## Stanly (Aug 5, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> I wonder if all the people that screamed "overheating" will buy this


Of course not – this is not a replacement for what R5 was marketed to be: it has no IBIS, not FF, no stills.


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## jayphotoworks (Aug 5, 2020)

This will target an entirely different demographic of shooters and has a much lower cost of entry as well.


JIM JIM said:


> Where do you get on a list?



Yes, the email list is not really a pre-order per se, but a list the president of RED opened up for people who wanted a special colored edition before the camera officially gets announced. You literally email the president and he puts you on the list. But the list closed at the beginning of July. RED does special color releases for launch products frequently.



wanderer23 said:


> i'm on the list for a stormtrooper, and received my r5 on saturday. I don't konw how i'm going to explain this extra one to my wife. i haven't even told her i'm gonna buy the ST yet either....





wanderer23 said:


> had to sorta-sign-up a while ago, no idea what the requirements were but was surprised i was slotted one. i think the list is closed since a coupel weeks ago, so now have to wait for the production model. but given alto of people are still waiting fo teh ST gonna guess its not until later this year. probably this RF camera will come along long before.



Just got my second email for payment arrangements this morning. I replied just a half day after they opened up the list and I was already in the hundreds down the list. There is a lot to like with this camera. It has a 2lbs shooting weight, RF mount, GS, 6K up to 48fps in 2.4:1, C-PDAF and obviously R3DCODE. This is my 3rd RED cam and it is the only one so far that doesn't need 10k in accessories just to mount a battery, a lens and actually have any monitoring. The menus are also much simpler to operate than a DSMC2 and you don't need to pay 200 for a foolcontrol app as it has a free full featured app for focus operation and even remote monitoring.

This will target an entirely different demographic of shooter and also has a much lower cost of entry


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> This will target an entirely different demographic of shooters and has a much lower cost of entry as well.
> 
> 
> Yes, the email list is not really a pre-order per se, but a list the president of RED opened up for people who wanted a special colored edition before the camera officially gets announced. You literally email the president and he puts you on the list. But the list closed at the beginning of July. RED does special color releases for launch products frequently.
> ...



Oh yes, this is definitely a completely different camera than a hybrid. The R5 replaced my a7riv and the komodo will replace my p6k. Now i'm fully aligned into one mount (mostly EF, though some RF for the R5)


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## StoicalEtcher (Aug 5, 2020)

Well, I'm a predominantly still photog, with no real interest in video, but as this is a new product, I'm going to pre-order it - if it then turns out to not be fully weather sealed and just the right tool for taking still photos the way I want to, I'm then going to moan and bitch incessantly and threaten to take my custom elsewhere - as well as telling anyone who thinks it is ideal for their purposes, or that I should instead buy a still camera, that they are obviously not a professional !!


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## filmmakerken (Aug 5, 2020)

This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras. 

Super 35 sensor -- bad idea. the advantage of RF is superior full frame capabilities.
4K -- with the R5 shooting 8K and the BlackMagic shooting 6K this resolution is not compelling.

Of course, I don't have the benefit of knowing Canon's long term strategy.


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## filmmakerken (Aug 5, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Can I ask what the use case was for 8K?


For filmmakers the more resolution the better. We've always advocated over sampling so we can more accurately color grade and manipulate footage for SFX. One cannot just think about current delivery methods (that max out at 4K) but also where we might be in 10, 20 50, or 100 years. (HBOMax has Eisenstein's 1925 film "Battleship Potemkin" in its library).


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## bandido (Aug 5, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> SDI port would be nice too...


I'm afraid Canon wants to use the SDI as one of the differentiators between the C200 and the C100, which is what I think this new camera is going to be; a C100R


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## wanderer23 (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.
> 
> Super 35 sensor -- bad idea. the advantage of RF is superior full frame capabilities.
> 4K -- with the R5 shooting 8K and the BlackMagic shooting 6K this resolution is not compelling.
> ...



With a dedicated booster and also internal ND if they can keep the form factor down i think there's still a big draw. Alot of people still have alot of EF lenses around (I own about 6 EF lenses and never had a canon camera for 15 years until i got teh R5). But i agree w/ you to an extent, but i guess they realize they're quickly encroaching on the c300/500 already.... Think they're trying to target the p6k and zcam crowd.


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## cornieleous (Aug 5, 2020)

john1970 said:


> All I can say is wow! I just wrote my contact at my local shop to let them know that I am interested in purchasing. For video work this will be an amazing camera. As others have noted this is the first Cine camera that is affordable by my standards. I also really like the fact that is is rumored to use the same batteries as the R5. It will be great to have two separate systems using the same batteries! I just hope that it offers internal RAW recording like the C200.



As silly as a thing like batteries are, that matters to me too! I cannot stand dragging around many batteries and chargers. I'm selling my Sony NXCAM not because it is bad, but the R5 4K30 is better and stabilized, and I cannot stand those batteries and charger. I'd love a dedicate pro video camera within the same system.

Curious how well Super 35mm can do for low light in the latest sensor generation.


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## padam (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.
> 
> Super 35 sensor -- bad idea. the advantage of RF is superior full frame capabilities.
> 4K -- with the R5 shooting 8K and the BlackMagic shooting 6K this resolution is not compelling.
> ...


Not sure why you claim that, there are a decent number of good RF lenses for video, like the trinity of f/2.8 IS lenses which work perfectly for video with reduced focus breathing and silent focusing. And they are still coming in.

But if one prefers to shoot EF lenses, he can also buy the Canon branded Speed Booster (probably a 0.71x focal reducer) to get back up to full-frame equivalent field of view and effectively gain an extra stop of light back as well. So the benefit of the RF-mount is easily utilised.

It does most of what a modern equivalent of the C200 would do (way superior 4k120p slow motion, that was one weak point of the C200), but the starting price is way lower (that one was 7499, this one will be 4499!), it brings in some features from the C300 Mark III (not the DGO sensor obviously) for less than half the price. It could be very attractive for a lot of people looking for a small cinema camera.

It looks to be a perfectly fine camera to start their RF Cinema campaign, which they can build upon.

Of course if you want FF and 6K video, you are welcome to buy the C500 Mark II for almost four times more, and I am sure there will be an RF-mount equivalent somewhere around that price range


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> For filmmakers the more resolution the better. We've always advocated over sampling so we can more accurately color grade and manipulate footage for SFX. One cannot just think about current delivery methods (that max out at 4K) but also where we might be in 10, 20 50, or 100 years. (HBOMax has Eisenstein's 1925 film "Battleship Potemkin" in its library).


I understand that it would be nice to future proof our content, however I think too much importance is placed on resolution over other important specs, like DR. I’d much rather a solid 4K with 13+ stops of usable DR than 8K with sub 11ish stops. Now if you’re talking cinema cameras, yea a Red solves that. Though I think lots of filmmakers would choose an Arri, who just moved to 4K two years ago. I guess it really depends on the filmmaker. Cheers!


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## Colorado (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Of course, I don't have the benefit of knowing Canon's long term strategy.


I think the long term strategy is that we have seen the last EF lens. As EF lenses are phased out (meaning some will be produced for a long time, but not forever) then RF lenses will be the only available option for both stills and video cameras (excluding M cameras ofc).


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## cornieleous (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> For filmmakers the more resolution the better. We've always advocated over sampling so we can more accurately color grade and manipulate footage for SFX. One cannot just think about current delivery methods (that max out at 4K) but also where we might be in 10, 20 50, or 100 years. (HBOMax has Eisenstein's 1925 film "Battleship Potemkin" in its library).


Doesn't it make more sense to think about resolution in terms of the life of the camera and your computer hardware?

If I bought a cinema camera, I'd expect it to be getting quality footage for about 4-5 years and then updgrading. 4K120 if the quality is great seems to fit the need, or be slightly behind. 6K and 8K are


Stanly said:


> Hi everyone! New here, 0 Canon gear at the moment. Felt the need to post because me and many of my colleagues are seemingly underrepresented here.
> 
> Am waiting for almost 2 years already for Canon to make the RF switch possible! But I get the feeling :this camera is not it" again ...
> 
> ...



You're looking for a hybrid that other brands do not have yet and Canon has not perfected. No one has FF hybrid that doesn't overheat with sensor stabilization and good photos. Of course you didn't really say good photos, and the A7s3 can do 12MP if that is enough for you. Its a barely hybrid to me- they didn't even really try for photos as far as serious photographers are concerned.

The closest Canon cameras to your list are probably the 1DX3 and R5. Maybe the R5 gets repackaged for less heat but you understand video cameras are low bit rate and low MP FF on video precisely because it is faster to readout and less heat. Also easier to stabilize.

I think you are just going to have to wait for the perfect hybrid in another version or as you say go for a different brand. The R5 is about as close as anyone has come to trying to be truly good at both video and photo, but it really is a stills and light duty camera in a too small body for its capability, hence the heating issues.

Also, I am guessing if you want to get your message to Canon, emailing them directly will be more effective getting your wants heard than forum posts on this rumors site. The RF cameras are satisfying to quite a lot of us, but its good to make your requests in the right places if you are interested in the brand and RF system.


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## RunAndGun (Aug 5, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> First Overheat Alert! Paging EosHD!
> 
> RED Komodo is shipping with EF-RF mount right?



Komodo’s are native RF. The pre-release custom color Komodo’s and the pre-release Storm Trooper Komodo’s have a Canon EF/RF adapter included, but the regular production run cameras will not have the adapter included.


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## Pape (Aug 5, 2020)

Sounds like another aproximately 4k camera like sony A7siii  ,no idea if its good idea when peoples seen R5 high quality 4k
Maybe it using small megapixel sensor so ibis can totally replace tripod and wireless transmitter can truelly send all data away.
Can imagine tokio olympics and tv photographers chasing athlets around riding with tiny robot scooters.
midget video peoples with one wheeled scooters!


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## sanj (Aug 5, 2020)

A much required camera. What is of interest is the size!


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## RunAndGun (Aug 5, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Full size HDMI make me happy.
> 
> Keeping expectations leveled



HDMI has no place on a professional video/cine camera. It’s one of the things I hate most about the original C300. They wasted space putting an HDMI on the camera instead of a much more useful second BNC/SDI. Rigging and wiring, especially in multi camera scenarios, was always a PITA, because you had to loop through VF’s and monitors so many times, because there was only the lone SDI. By the time the signal made it back to the big monitor, sometimes there was a second delay.


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## preppyak (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.


See, it makes perfect sense to me, and actually explains some of the R5/R6 choices.

Aside from the obvious future proofing as they phase out EF, they can hook a lot of people at a cheaper price point than the C-line had been doing. APS-C v Full-frame explains a good chunk of the price difference, both between sensor and processing. And because RF can adapt every EF lens (and potentially speedboost them), there's few limits.

But importantly it gives people a lot of the draws that Blackmagic/Sony/etc have, and when those people would have left before because a C200 is a $7500 camera versus a $2-3000 option, this is more competitive.

I'd be willing to bet that the recording time limits, lack of dual slot recording, and the hair trigger overheat aspects of the R5/R6 are protecting sales for this camera. Neither are easily explained otherwise (except perhaps for laughably bad engineering, which isnt really Canon's thing)


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## scottwild (Aug 5, 2020)

This will be the C100mk3


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## gmail (Aug 5, 2020)

I hope this is just a rumor not a real next RF Cine camera specs. I have been waiting to a full frame RF mount cine camera, and this is just an insult to RF lens owners. I guess I will be am keeping my R5. A few days of shooting with it tells me that is will work for my needs for now.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 5, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> HDMI has no place on a professional video/cine camera. It’s one of the things I hate most about the original C300. They wasted space putting an HDMI on the camera instead of a much more useful second BNC/SDI. Rigging and wiring, especially in multi camera scenarios, was always a PITA, because you had to loop through VF’s and monitors so many times, because there was only the lone SDI. By the time the signal made it back to the big monitor, sometimes there was a second delay.


I get that! Definitely not a straight forward workflow compared to SDI but there are solutions for multi cam use cases. Need to learn a bit more about the camera, possible extensions, and where this will sit on a roadmap for RF cine. It’s definitely not in the C300III & C500II territory so we have to keep expectations in line. We don’t even have RF cine glass yet and have to send in RF glass to get declicked and so forth.


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.
> 
> Super 35 sensor -- bad idea. the advantage of RF is superior full frame capabilities.
> 4K -- with the R5 shooting 8K and the BlackMagic shooting 6K this resolution is not compelling.
> ...



There's a lot of misconceptions on your statement. Being a professional of the industry of over 15 years or so and seeing the 5D Mk II revolution first hand, you're missing the point.

Super 35 sensor is the standard of the industry. There's no switch to fullframe (or even larger) format anytime soon. Camera manufacturers are offering a bigger sensor for everyone that wants to have a wider field of view, or simply want a shallower depth of field by using some lenses. There's little to none fullframe anamorphic lenses, and even fullframe lenses are very few in the field. While you're right about the advantage of the RF glass is to be with fullframe capabilities, the RF mount is a little bit more than that: you can have options of new lenses to choose and also new options of lenses to develop. This is the exciting stuff. Why do you think ARRI is putting that much effort with the new LPL mount and having a hard time? That mount has exactly the same flange as the EF mount, and a lot of manufacturers have a better understanding of the EF than the LPL. So it is natural that Canon pushes the RF mount into the cinema world, not for fullframe only, but also in order to develop new S35 lenses.

Also, your impression on the resolution is kind mistaken as well. Everything is about codec and better color sampling/bit depth, which is something that Canon always had trouble with - this is one of the reasons why the C700 bunked so badly, not offering any sort of 4444 12bit internally. From what I've seen/heard, this upcoming camera is targeted towards indie filmmakers that wants a compact and reliable camera that shoots compressed 4K. This is kind the same thing as the C300 Mk II, but with a better sensor (the C200 sensor is the same of the C700, a 4.5K sensor that oversamples to 4K) and if it turns out to be true, this could be the real company camera to their bigger Cinema EOS cameras.


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## melgross (Aug 5, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Can I ask what the use case was for 8K?


Video cropping. Downconvert for higher 4K quality. You know, the usual things higher resolutions are used for. 4K TVs have been out for some time, and 8k is beginning to arrive. While I think 8k, and to an extent, 4K tv is BS, people are buying them. Businesses are buying them in very large sizes.

it took 20 years for 2k to become established, it’s taking 4K much less time. We’ll see 8k in the cinema in another couple of years, if what I’m being told is correct. Black magic has just come out with 12k for $10,000.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 5, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> Komodo’s are native RF. The pre-release custom color Komodo’s and the pre-release Storm Trooper Komodo’s have a Canon EF/RF adapter included, but the regular production run cameras will not have the adapter included.


Because RF support isn't there yet


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 5, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> yeah i'm ready to move on from HDMI. but i'll take it. please take all my money canon. oh wait you already did with the r5 + lenses....


I'd prefer a camera that has HDMI and timecode than a camera that has HDMI and SDI ports. I can work around the HDMI by using a crossconverter, but I can't work around the benefits of having a proper timecode terminal.


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 5, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Not that it would happen but a multi-line long term collaboration b/w CANON and RED would burn the segment down faster than a dozen R5s in death valley.


I think they are working together to some extent. The RED Komodo have the RF mount, alongside usage of BP-A batteries and also a CFast 2.0 slot. All of this screams to me that this was a Canon project at some point, which ended up in RED's R&D in order to become a RED camera. Also, Canon announced a firmware update for their professionals displays some time ago (around the same time as the announcement of the C300 Mk III) which makes all of their displays compatible with RED cameras as well:



> 7. Added two LUTs to "CDL/User LUT" that convert video taken with RED Digital Cinema cameras to HDR (PQ) and SDR.


Source: https://asia.canon/en/support/0400566503/1

Canon USA website is down for some odd reason, but I've seen this firmware update over there as well.


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## sanj (Aug 5, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> SDI port would be nice too...


Could you please educate me on how SDI is better than HDMI? Sincere question.


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## sanj (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.
> 
> Super 35 sensor -- bad idea. the advantage of RF is superior full frame capabilities.
> 4K -- with the R5 shooting 8K and the BlackMagic shooting 6K this resolution is not compelling.
> ...


Why do you think RF lenses are not good video lenses? Interesting!


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## bgoyette (Aug 5, 2020)

There’s just too much about this that smells. RF camera with super 35 sensor. Smaller than 1dx3, but internal optical ND. (Tell me how that fits). No internal raw? Priced well below anything in the cinema lineup. 4 year old sensor? When Canon produces an RF cinema camera, it will be full frame. Let’s start there.


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## Alam (Aug 5, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.
> 
> Super 35 sensor -- bad idea. the advantage of RF is superior full frame capabilities.
> 4K -- with the R5 shooting 8K and the BlackMagic shooting 6K this resolution is not compelling.
> ...


Hey, I'm still shooter, but aren't you better off with Super 35 than Fullframe when shooting video?
My friends who shoot video said bokeh is hindrance in story telling with video

Or i get it wrong? Can anyone elaborate?


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## Kit. (Aug 5, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> Also, your impression on the resolution is kind mistaken as well. Everything is about codec and better color sampling/bit depth, which is something that Canon always had trouble with - this is one of the reasons why the C700 bunked so badly, not offering any sort of 4444 12bit internally.


What's the point of 4:4:4 from a non-oversampling Bayer sensor? You don't have so much color resolution there anyway.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Aug 5, 2020)

God I hope this is the C100 III. Hoping it has a built in flip-screen and the same removable handle, but the 2x LPEN6 and "smaller than 1DXIII" makes me think otherwise. Although I could see some sort of XC15 and C100 hybrid, where one battery goes in the grip (XC15) and the other goes in the back (C100)...hmm...that would make them hot swapable....


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

sanj said:


> Could you please educate me on how SDI is better than HDMI? Sincere question.


12G-SDI (12 Gig SDI) basically transmits the same signal as HDMI 2.0, but it's what you find on professional cinema cameras for picture and sound transmission to an external monitor/recorder which (in my opinion) has the best upgrade over HDMI because it uses a locking BNC type connector. You plug the cable in, twist the metal ring, and it locks into the port. HDMI cables, especially mini and micro, tend to like to wiggle loose over time and fall out which would disconnect your recording...


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

sanj said:


> Why do you think RF lenses are not good video lenses? Interesting!



My guess is it's the same as my complaint I have, but I would not call them "not good" video lenses. I would just prefer EF. The issue is FBW or Focus By Wire. You do NOT have true mechanical manual control over the focus ring. Which kinda sucks for filming because sometimes you really want/need manual focus pulls.


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> What's the point of 4:4:4 from a non-oversampling Bayer sensor? You don't have so much color resolution there anyway.


Your assumption is wrong. The chroma subsampling is not impacted by resolution. If you shoot 4:4:4, the sensor does not encode a chroma subsample into the file, so in that way you have the highest chroma space for post production. That's what cameras such as Alexas do in ProRes, regarding of the resolution of the sensor. 

The C700 can shoot 4:4:4 if you shoot externally, which is the hassle people have about a $35k camera. It's in no way a bad camera - but you need to have a Codex recorder with its media cards, which put around $20k on top of the camera. You start to get inside Alexa Mini territory (at least used). If you go to 2K, you have a helluva camera that can shoot 2K 4:4:4:4 12bit in ProRes, which is awesome - but again, you kind can do that with the C300 Mk II by shooting 2K 4:4:4 12bit XF-AVC.

The newer Cinema EOS cameras (C300 Mark III and C500 Mark II) can shoot 4:2:2 10 bit (which is the intermediate codec) or Cinema RAW Light. There's no chroma subsampling in RAW format and that's one of the reasons why these cameras were received extremely well by the market: it's cheaper and it offers a more robust chroma subsampling format depending on your needs.

So, in other words, if you get an Alexa Mini and shoot 4K with ProRes 4:4:4:4 from its 3.2K sensor and a C700 and shoot 4K ProRes 4:2:2, the Alexa will get a better color rendition due to the camera not subsampling its chroma information, even though the camera is shooting from a smaller resolution imaging sensor.

On that same note, if you shoot 4K 4:2:2 from the C700 and compare to the Cinema RAW Light from the C200 converted into ProRes 4:4:4:4, the C200 will have more color information due to the CRL format not having any chroma subsampling at all from the get go, even though both cameras share the same sensor.

It's another story if you need to go through the trouble of shooting RAW and then encode into ProRes to have more color information than shooting directly in 4:2:2 10bit (which is more than enough for most web content deliveries).

Last but not least: The C700 sensor actually oversamples from 4.5K to 4K. It does not make a big difference but it does show a difference when comparing the internal 4K footage from the C700 and the C300 Mk II, per example, with the C300 Mk II looking soft (especially if you are trying to reframe it into a HD delivery).


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 5, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> My guess is it's the same as my complaint I have, but I would not call them "not good" video lenses. I would just prefer EF. The issue is FBW or Focus By Wire. You do NOT have true mechanical manual control over the focus ring. Which kinda sucks for filming because sometimes you really want/need manual focus pulls.


I think the EOS R5 had something that actually managed to change the way the FCB works, giving more of a mechanical feel for RF lenses. I've seen it somewhere, but I don't remember exactly where.


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## Stanly (Aug 5, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> The closest Canon cameras to your list are probably the 1DX3 and R5. Maybe the R5 gets repackaged for less heat but you understand video cameras are low bit rate and low MP FF on video precisely because it is faster to readout and less heat. Also easier to stabilize.


That's true, but I'm fine with having to purchase two cameras. Let's say R5 + full frame RF cinema camera, or a7S III + a7R IV. But it's important for me to have a camera that works reliably for both videos and stills for those situations when it's not possible to have two. I'm fine with some compromise, and R5 would've been perfect solution and final excuse to invest in Canon RF glass ... if only heat situation was workable. By the way I am surprised how great rolling shutter is! Let's see if we hear something before a7S III ships. Not into buying from the first batch anyway – was burned too many times 



cornieleous said:


> Also, I am guessing if you want to get your message to Canon, emailing them directly will be more effective getting your wants heard than forum posts on this rumors site. The RF cameras are satisfying to quite a lot of us, but its good to make your requests in the right places if you are interested in the brand and RF system.


I doubt it is possible for Canon not to know about the market of hybrid shooters (or people needing a hybrid camera to be part of the kit) and how to build customer base on lenses ... should probably do that, even if it's going to be lost in the pile of e-mails 

Cheers!


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> I think the EOS R5 had something that actually managed to change the way the FCB works, giving more of a mechanical feel for RF lenses. I've seen it somewhere, but I don't remember exactly where.


Well my RF24-70, while a fantastic lens in AF, has awful MF pulls on my EOS R. Very unreliable. And yes, with the MF selected on the glass


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 5, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Well my RF24-70, while a fantastic lens in AF, has awful MF pulls on my EOS R. Very unreliable. And yes, with the MF selected on the glass


No, it's a new function. It's not just the MF switch on the lens. I'll try to remember where I've saw this option and share here.

Edit:

Found it. It was on Undone's review: 




Timestamp at 13:44


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## PureClassA (Aug 5, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> No, it's a new function. It's not just the MF switch on the lens. I'll try to remember where I've saw this option and share here.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


PLEASE FIRMWARE THAT TO THE R for PETES SAKE. Not being able to operate with normal (proper) linear focus ring maneuvers really makes these RF lenses almost worthless for Manual pulls. That seems like that would be an easy FW fix.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 5, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> No, it's a new function. It's not just the MF switch on the lens. I'll try to remember where I've saw this option and share here.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


The linear setting, right? I wonder how more accurate we can get with that. I want to try it!


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## Kit. (Aug 5, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> Your assumption is wrong. The chroma subsampling is not impacted by resolution. If you shoot 4:4:4, the sensor does not encode a chroma subsample into the file, so in that way you have the highest chroma space for post production.


Where does it get that 4:4:4 _from_ in the first place, if there are only 2 green, 1 blue, and 1 red pixel per each 2x2 pixel block in the raw data?

_You don't have this color resolution in the raw data_ unless your sensor is more than 4K or you use 3CCD or Foveon-like sensor. You can of course cook them into your output stream, but what would it give you, other that unnecessarily big data rates?

And why do you think C700 (non-FF) oversamples from 4.5K? According to B&H at least, it records 4K RAW.


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 6, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Where does it get that 4:4:4 _from_ in the first place, if there are only 2 green, 1 blue, and 1 red pixel per each 2x2 pixel block in the raw data?
> 
> _You don't have this color resolution in the raw data_ unless your sensor is more than 4K or you use 3CCD or Foveon-like sensor. You can of course cook them into your output stream, but what would it give you, other that unnecessarily big data rates?


That's exactly the issue with the C700. You can't record 4K 4:4:4 UNLESS you use the Codex, which grants you that.



Kit. said:


> And why do you think C700 (non-FF) oversamples from 4.5K? According to B&H at least, it records 4K RAW.


B&H is wrong to an extent. There's two models of C700 with S35 sensors: the conventional 4.5K rolling shutter and the 4K global shutter. From Canon press release back in 2016:



> The EOS C700 and EOS C700 PL cameras feature a Super 35mm 4.5K sensor1 with wide dynamic range, and can be ideal for productions requiring 4K UHD TV or 4K DCI cinema deliverables. The EOS C700 GS PL features a Super 35mm 4K sensor with a global shutter to enable the distortion-free capture of subjects moving at high speeds.





> The combination of the EOS C700 camera with the optional Codex CDX-36150 recorder allows for high-speed 4.5K RAW recording at up to 100FPS, 4K RAW at up to 120FPS, 4K ProRes at up to 60FPS, 2K ProRes at up to 240FPS and XF-AVC at up to 60FPS.



Source: https://www.dpreview.com/news/3995450001/canon-announces-new-flagship-eos-c700-cinema-camera (Canon USA's website still down)


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## sanj (Aug 6, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> 12G-SDI (12 Gig SDI) basically transmits the same signal as HDMI 2.0, but it's what you find on professional cinema cameras for picture and sound transmission to an external monitor/recorder which (in my opinion) has the best upgrade over HDMI because it uses a locking BNC type connector. You plug the cable in, twist the metal ring, and it locks into the port. HDMI cables, especially mini and micro, tend to like to wiggle loose over time and fall out which would disconnect your recording...


I agree about them wiggle out. Yes! Frustrating. THANK YOU SIR


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## gmail (Aug 6, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> My guess is it's the same as my complaint I have, but I would not call them "not good" video lenses. I would just prefer EF. The issue is FBW or Focus By Wire. You do NOT have true mechanical manual control over the focus ring. Which kinda sucks for filming because sometimes you really want/need manual focus pulls.


With RF lenses you can select "linear" focus control when in is in manual mode. While it is still FBW the lens responds to hand (or motorized focus controller) input as precisely and smoothly as mechanical focus lenses.


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## analoggrotto (Aug 6, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> i'm on the list for a stormtrooper, and received my r5 on saturday. I don't konw how i'm going to explain this extra one to my wife. i haven't even told her i'm gonna buy the ST yet either....


Nice! That RED is doing this speaks volumes for Canon's RF lenses. 

Do RED cameras compete directly with Canon's Cinema cameras?


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## wanderer23 (Aug 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> Why do you think RF lenses are not good video lenses? Interesting!



my 2c -
Most stills lenses in general dont make ideal video lenses due to dififculty manual focusing. Except the older manual focus ones, and a few modern ones, are exceptions (for example sigma 18-35 has proper focus mechanism not fly-by-wire etc). Even the ones iwth manul focus wheels the throw is quite short usually.


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## wanderer23 (Aug 6, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Nice! That RED is doing this speaks volumes for Canon's RF lenses.
> 
> Do RED cameras compete directly with Canon's Cinema cameras?



I would say not really. At least based on market absorption seems RED is used more for full on filmmaking vs canons more for docuemntary/interviews and talking heads (but also some short films). hollywood basically shoots 100% arri or red. 

Another example peter mckinnon uses a c500 to shoot himself talking to the camera, but uses either mirrorless ( or back before a RED) to shoot his cinematic sequences. But the komodo is likely to cross a few barriers.

but there's no rules, you can shoot anything for anything you want.:0 just my 2c


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## kimster (Aug 6, 2020)

I was not so interested in video until recently. I had some RF glass for my EOS R and I absolutely love my R5 for photography. I would now be interested in an RF mount cine camera. I think if the price is right and there are no compromises then maybe serious wedding photographers would carry an R5 and the C200? I need to sell some stuff before I can buy anything else though. The 100-500 put me over my budget for the foreseeable future.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 6, 2020)

filmmakerken said:


> This move makes no sense to me. As I've stated before, the current line of RF lenses are not particularly good video lenses so there's no advantage to introducing a RF mount video camera unless it offers features not found on the EF mount cameras.
> 
> Super 35 sensor -- bad idea. the advantage of RF is superior full frame capabilities.
> 4K -- with the R5 shooting 8K and the BlackMagic shooting 6K this resolution is not compelling.
> ...


Not sure which ones lens you’re shooting with, but my RF 28-70 and RF 70-200 is insanely good for video.


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## sanj (Aug 6, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> My guess is it's the same as my complaint I have, but I would not call them "not good" video lenses. I would just prefer EF. The issue is FBW or Focus By Wire. You do NOT have true mechanical manual control over the focus ring. Which kinda sucks for filming because sometimes you really want/need manual focus pulls.


If that is the case then perhaps manual focus lenses will give you even greater control.


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## Pape (Aug 6, 2020)

melgross said:


> Video cropping. Downconvert for higher 4K quality. You know, the usual things higher resolutions are used for. 4K TVs have been out for some time, and 8k is beginning to arrive. While I think 8k, and to an extent, 4K tv is BS, people are buying them. Businesses are buying them in very large sizes.
> 
> it took 20 years for 2k to become established, it’s taking 4K much less time. We’ll see 8k in the cinema in another couple of years, if what I’m being told is correct. Black magic has just come out with 12k for $10,000.


2k isnt quite yet there ,you need 100'' tv to see all resolution 3meter away. There wont be affordable 100'' tv s


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

gmail said:


> With RF lenses you can select "linear" focus control when in is in manual mode. While it is still FBW the lens responds to hand (or motorized focus controller) input as precisely and smoothly as mechanical focus lenses.


I saw that on the R5. But i’ll have to go find that on the R


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## RunAndGun (Aug 6, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Because RF support isn't there yet



Honestly, the beauty of it is NOT using RF lenses, but going with lenses that have longer/deeper flange depths like EF and PL, so that you can use adapters, like the Kippertie or even the Canon, to essentially have "built-in" ND since the Komodo lacks it internally.


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> If that is the case then perhaps manual focus lenses will give you even greater control.


Well that’s why I prefer EF for now. I just got the Rf24-70. Now on the R5 there seems to be a menu switch that allows linear focus control that creates a more tradition pull on RF FBW glass... I have to go see if it on the R


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## RunAndGun (Aug 6, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> I'd prefer a camera that has HDMI and timecode than a camera that has HDMI and SDI ports. I can work around the HDMI by using a crossconverter, but I can't work around the benefits of having a proper timecode terminal.



Or they could do it right and do SDI AND TC and lose the HDMI altogether.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 6, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> Honestly, the beauty of it is NOT using RF lenses, but going with lenses that have longer/deeper flange depths like EF and PL, so that you can use adapters, like the Kippertie or even the Canon, to essentially have "built-in" ND since the Komodo lacks it internally.


That’s actually a fantastic point. I really wish I had one with the beta firmware to play with...


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

gmail said:


> With RF lenses you can select "linear" focus control when in is in manual mode. While it is still FBW the lens responds to hand (or motorized focus controller) input as precisely and smoothly as mechanical focus lenses.


Nope. This is NOT available on the R. Which by extension means neither the RP. That’s a firmware fix that needs to happen ASAP.


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## wanderer23 (Aug 6, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Well that’s why I prefer EF for now. I just got the Rf24-70. Now on the R5 there seems to be a menu switch that allows linear focus control that creates a more tradition pull on RF FBW glass... I have to go see if it on the R



Other cameras have this too, like the s1h for native lenses. it's not the same still, though yes better than not having such a function. I feel for the casual shooters on the R5 they'll just use AF anyway, so then RF lenses are more than good enough if extra sharp video is your preference (there's also promist filters).


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## wanderer23 (Aug 6, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> Honestly, the beauty of it is NOT using RF lenses, but going with lenses that have longer/deeper flange depths like EF and PL, so that you can use adapters, like the Kippertie or even the Canon, to essentially have "built-in" ND since the Komodo lacks it internally.



+1. i don't think any komodo purchasers really plan to use RF lenses at any point. I certainly wont be....

on a side note really impressed this upcoming RF cine cam will be msall and have internal ND, curious to see how they do it. Myabe w/ a FF/VV sensor it wont e possible, but on a s35...


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> Or they could do it right and do SDI AND TC and lose the HDMI altogether.


No they wont drop the HDMI. No way. Too many recorders out there dont have SDI. A Ninja would NOT work with this. You’s have to buy a Shogun 7. It will either have HDMI with SDI. Or HDMI alone.


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## RunAndGun (Aug 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> Could you please educate me on how SDI is better than HDMI? Sincere question.



Industry standard connection that has been around for decades, LOCKING connection, cables are reliable, robust, inexpensive and simple.

I can count on one hand with fingers left over how many BNC cables I've had go bad on me in the 2+ decades I've been doing this. I've had HDMI cables on my TV's/AVR's, etc. at home that are never touched go bad just sitting there.


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## RunAndGun (Aug 6, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> No they wont drop the HDMI. No way. Too many recorders out there dont have SDI. A Ninja would NOT work with this. You’s have to buy a Shogun 7. It will either have HDMI with SDI. Or HDMI alone.



I'm just saying that given the choice, I'd much rather have SDI.


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## RunAndGun (Aug 6, 2020)

Pape said:


> 2k isnt quite yet there ,you need 100'' tv to see all resolution 3meter away. There wont be affordable 100'' tv s



2K is 1080... Just a few more lines horizontally.

Define "TV" and define "affordable". Right before Thanksgiving last year, all-in, I spent $6500-$6600 on a 4K UST projector and 120" UST screen(looks like an absurdly large flat panel hanging on my wall). And there are way less expensive projectors out there than what I bought, so you can easily get into the 100"-120" game now for $3600 to $4100. Possibly less.


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## Pape (Aug 6, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> 2K is 1080... Just a few more lines horizontally.
> 
> Define "TV" and define "affordable". Right before Thanksgiving last year, all-in, I spent $6500-$6600 on a 4K UST projector and 120" UST screen(looks like an absurdly large flat panel hanging on my wall). And there are way less expensive projectors out there than what I bought, so you can easily get into the 100"-120" game now for $3600 to $4100. Possibly less.


Ok i guess i am just poor then


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## Stanly (Aug 6, 2020)

s66 said:


> It's off topic: but the R5 does not overheat in normal 4k. Even if you make it overheat in the other modes such a 8K and 8K downsampled to 4K, it will still allow normal 4K/30 and picture taking without cooling down at all.



True, but doesn't work the other way around – the exact issue (= if you have to start with filming line-skipped 4K – you might end up having less / no time in slow-motion. Something that needs testing to figure out if it works. There are reports of all heat sensitive modes being disabled after simply taking photos.


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## Kit. (Aug 6, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> That's exactly the issue with the C700. You can't record 4K 4:4:4 UNLESS you use the Codex, which grants you that.


Again, there is no 4K 4:4:4 information on the C700 sensor. _The sensor_ does not have such color resolution.

You can fake it like Alexa Mini fakes 4K, but can't you do it in post-processing as well?


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## Th0msky (Aug 6, 2020)

Seems pretty cool. I guess canon wont release any dedicated video camera in a mirrorless body this way though?


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## wanderer23 (Aug 6, 2020)

Th0msky said:


> Seems pretty cool. I guess canon wont release any dedicated video camera in a mirrorless body this way though?


This might be it... though a bigger body a la S1H. i ddont think this will be the square format one.... imo


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## usern4cr (Aug 6, 2020)

I think it's great the Canon is coming out with a reasonably affordable video-camera in R mount. My only worries are this:

* They should output HDMI as well as SDI with timecode.
Because when it comes to connectors: *"BNCs rule, and HDMIs drool!" *
* Why have 1 cfexpress and 2 SD slots? Better is just 2 cfexpress slots to record to both simultaneously.
* It better have a quiet but effective fan to keep it cool so it can run continuously in all modes if desired.


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## RunAndGun (Aug 6, 2020)

Pape said:


> Ok i guess i am just poor then



I‘m glad I bought it before the world fell apart... Would have been much harder to justify that purchase in April than last November. Now the question is, can my accountant figure out a way to make it a business expense...?


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## stevelee (Aug 6, 2020)

s66 said:


> R1c sounds like a nice name for it


Sounds like a Y chromosome haplotype.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 6, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> I‘m glad I bought it before the world fell apart... Would have been much harder to justify that purchase in April than last November. Now the question is, can my accountant figure out a way to make it a business expense...?


Yeah. put in as your heating bill..?


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## Dantana (Aug 6, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Nope. This is NOT available on the R. Which by extension means neither the RP. That’s a firmware fix that needs to happen ASAP.


On the R, if you go to page 3 of the C.Fn3: Operation Menu, "RF lens MF focus ring sensitivity," there are options for "Linked to rotation degree" and "Varies with rotation speed" the second of which I believe is the default, but I'm not sure since I have it set to linear. I think I changed that during my initial setup.

I haven't shot much in the way of manual focus with my one RF lens, so I can't attest to its functionality, but I wanted to make sure you knew where it was.

I'm on firmware 1.6.0


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

Dantana said:


> On the R, if you go to page 3 of the C.Fn3: Operation Menu, "RF lens MF focus ring sensitivity," there are options for "Linked to rotation degree" and "Varies with rotation speed" the second of which I believe is the default, but I'm not sure since I have it set to linear. I think I changed that during my initial setup.
> 
> I haven't shot much in the way of manual focus with my one RF lens, so I can't attest to its functionality, but I wanted to make sure you knew where it was.
> 
> I'm on firmware 1.6.0


Ok, I'll have to check that again Thanks! I was looking in the AF (purple) menus (in camera mode, not video) and it wasn't there. And I based that off the Gerald Undone video of the R5 where he shows the linear focus control setting IN the purple AF menu. There was some specific setting for making the ring linear MF response, but apparently it's in a totally different place in the R than the R5.... VERY weird. I'd like to see a firmware update to put that control IN the purple AF menu tab, because, go figure, that would be where most people would go looking for it LOL


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## spomeniks (Aug 6, 2020)

H. Jones said:


> This honestly sounds like a very workable, tangible camera. Surprised to hear it's smaller even than the 1DX, I'm guessing a similar build to the XC-15?



It probably won't be, but man I really wish Canon would bring back the XC form factor with an interchangeable mount.


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> * Why have 1 cfexpress and 2 SD slots? Better is just 2 cfexpress slots to record to both simultaneously.
> * It better have a quiet but effective fan to keep it cool so it can run continuously in all modes if desired.



1) Absolutely on SDI. Let's hope so.
2) CFe slot for high power full res files. SD SLOTS for simplicity, compatibility and... PROXIES. Remember, this is a Cinema camera. So dual recording of RAW and Proxies is a likely given.
3) As I DOUBT Canon would bother to even think of weather sealing this for obvious reasons, the heat sinks and forced induction/exhaust cooling is all but assured.

What I'm REALLY interested to see is how Canon is going to implement these rumored built in ND Filters (assuming mechanical/glass, not electronic). It's easy to use in EF mount thanks to the space. But RF flange distance is WAY less. Not a lot of room in there for ND glass.

Anyway, ALL of this data is subject to refinement as CR gets further confirmation, which I know he is hard at work doing. An announcement on 4 weeks on such a camera is going to melt faces the way the R5 is ...well... melting in 8K


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

And I Re-Read this CR2 a couple times a day to get a huge smile


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## PureClassA (Aug 6, 2020)

s66 said:


> R1c sounds like a nice name for it


Well, yes BUT. The 1DC was so named as it shared a 1DX body. I REALLY do NOT think Canon would debut its 1RX body on this camera. So I will probably have some special/new designation as Canon has not made this body type before.

UNLESS.... They could literally take the 1DX3 body and refit it for this. I would doubt that, but maybe Canon uses all that extra room by dumping the Mirror and Pentaprism etc... for thermal. But thermals wont be near as bad as the R5 anyway for the simple fact that it ain't gonna be reading out 45MP.  But if they did that... Sure the 1RC would be pretty slick.

But I think we're gonna see some R5 looking body (of perhaps the R5 body itself) and it's the Cinema R5C...

Or a C100R


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## y2kunals (Aug 6, 2020)

So basically an R5 with active cooling (most likely) and focused on video without any of those 8k niknaks to fool consumers (like ME!)


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## MaxDiesel (Aug 6, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> yeah i was wondering how they would make it so different that it woudln't work w/ another camera with teh same mount. Maybe has to do with some specific design relevant to the internal ND squeezed into a small area?



This seems to work for the EOS-R and EOS-RP so should work for the R5 - R6 and hopefully the RF Camcorder.

Metabones T Speed Booster Ultra 0.71x Adapter for Canon Full-Frame EF-Mount Lens to Canon RF-Mount Camera


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## MaxDiesel (Aug 6, 2020)

john1970 said:


> All I can say is wow! I just wrote my contact at my local shop to let them know that I am interested in purchasing. For video work this will be an amazing camera. As others have noted this is the first Cine camera that is affordable by my standards. I also really like the fact that is is rumored to use the same batteries as the R5. It will be great to have two separate systems using the same batteries! I just hope that it offers internal RAW recording like the C200.



Thats the only spec I was missing from the list. Internal Raw. A must with my C200 and a desire for this new RF camera.


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## SteveC (Aug 6, 2020)

Stanly said:


> True, but doesn't work the other way around – the exact issue (= if you have to start with filming line-skipped 4K – you might end up having less / no time in slow-motion. Something that needs testing to figure out if it works. There are reports of all heat sensitive modes being disabled after simply taking photos.



At the very least, if you're videoing something and the high quality modes fail (or won't start), you can fall back on "ordinary" 4K. (I recognize that's useless if you want slo-mo--though that could at least be alleviated if 1080p were available in high frame rate, which would essentially have the same data rate as 4K 30/25p, which doesn't overheat.) Other cameras, when they overheat, are complete bricks. If it's something time critical (e.g., some 'moment' at a wedding), you're SOL, whereas with regular 4K you've got something to work with.


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## jwflowersii (Aug 6, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> Not sure which ones lens you’re shooting with, but my RF 28-70 and RF 70-200 is insanely good for video.




The problem for the RF lenses is focus breathing. If you want to do any pull focus shots, it completely ruins it.


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## jwflowersii (Aug 7, 2020)

sanj said:


> Why do you think RF lenses are not good video lenses? Interesting!


I don't think anyone replied to you, but the issue is focus breathing, so when trying to do any pull focus shots it sucks


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## analoggrotto (Aug 7, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> I would say not really. At least based on market absorption seems RED is used more for full on filmmaking vs canons more for docuemntary/interviews and talking heads (but also some short films). hollywood basically shoots 100% arri or red.
> 
> Another example peter mckinnon uses a c500 to shoot himself talking to the camera, but uses either mirrorless ( or back before a RED) to shoot his cinematic sequences. But the komodo is likely to cross a few barriers.
> 
> but there's no rules, you can shoot anything for anything you want.:0 just my 2c



Thanks for the insight. All I know about RED is that they are a deeply respected name in the industry. This new RED Komodo / Stormtrooper could be the _weapon. _

To be clear, I am one of those people looking to use the R5 strictly for stills. I already have an RF50mm but no R body... yet.

I was checking into a hampton inn around the same time as a small news crew (maybe documentarians?) and walked right past a C300 that they set on the ground right outside of the front door momentarily!


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## syder (Aug 7, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> What I'm REALLY interested to see is how Canon is going to implement these rumored built in ND Filters (assuming mechanical/glass, not electronic). It's easy to use in EF mount thanks to the space. But RF flange distance is WAY less. Not a lot of room in there for ND glass.



I guess that's why it's reported as 6 stops of ND rather than the 10 on the C200? 

Which is a shame as the extra 4 stops are at times useful when wanting to shoot wide open with a fast prime in very bright sunlight at 25p.


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## PureClassA (Aug 7, 2020)

syder said:


> I guess that's why it's reported as 6 stops of ND rather than the 10 on the C200?
> 
> Which is a shame as the extra 4 stops are at times useful when wanting to shoot wide open with a fast prime in very bright sunlight at 25p.


If correct, then a purely physical limitation of flange distance. The solution Is the EF-RF adapter with drop in ND. But even having a built in 6 stopper is great. That would probably still handle a wide array of situations and you can still stack the adapter or a front screw in or matte box system if need be


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## syder (Aug 7, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> If correct, then a purely physical limitation of flange distance. The solution Is the EF-RF adapter with drop in ND. But even having a built in 6 stopper is great. That would probably still handle a wide array of situations and you can still stack the adapter or a front screw in or matte box system if need be



Absolutely... The C100 only had 6 stops and that was fine for about 99.something % of the time. When you know you want to shoot at f1.4 in bright sunlight there are still ways of making it work, they're just less convenient than the built in NDs.


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## padam (Aug 7, 2020)

spomeniks said:


> It probably won't be, but man I really wish Canon would bring back the XC form factor with an interchangeable mount.


This patent uses the same mount and batteries, so I assume it is not far off how it's going to look like.


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## Twinix (Aug 7, 2020)

padam said:


> This patent uses the same mount and batteries, so I assume it is not far off how it's going to look like.
> View attachment 191947
> 
> View attachment 191948
> ...


This is what the article/post should include!


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## pmjm (Aug 7, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> HDMI has no place on a professional video/cine camera. It’s one of the things I hate most about the original C300. They wasted space putting an HDMI on the camera instead of a much more useful second BNC/SDI. Rigging and wiring, especially in multi camera scenarios, was always a PITA, because you had to loop through VF’s and monitors so many times, because there was only the lone SDI. By the time the signal made it back to the big monitor, sometimes there was a second delay.



At a price point of $4500 this would certainly not be a "professional" cine camera. This is clearly targeted to enthusiasts, YouTubers and low-budget producers who are more likely to want to output to a Ninja V or HDMI Capture Card than a Shogun or Video Assist.


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## PureClassA (Aug 7, 2020)

padam said:


> This patent uses the same mount and batteries, so I assume it is not far off how it's going to look like.
> View attachment 191947
> 
> View attachment 191948
> ...


Wait. Ya lost me.... That’s the XC body pics you posted? Or is that what you’re thinking the new RF body is and these images are something new?


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## PureClassA (Aug 7, 2020)

And speaking of batteries, the use Of the Dual LPE6 makes me wonder why not use the cinema battery line if it’s a box.... 

Makes me think it IS more akin to a larger MILC body. But if it’s a box, im fine with that too. But the box shape would make me wonder why use XLR Minis. (Unless its an itty bitty box Like the XC was.... which it doesn't sound like). If It’s a larger MILC (Panny S1H / 1DX3 size) then using minis would make more sense.


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## wanderer23 (Aug 7, 2020)

Somehow i don't think it'll be a box. these graphics might be for someone else. Craig would have posted htem together otherwise. ANd i also think the source woudln't bother comparing it to a dslr-style body for size. I'm surprsied there'e so little information about the shape given its rumored to be announced in the next 3 weeks now....


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 7, 2020)

jwflowersii said:


> The problem for the RF lenses is focus breathing. If you want to do any pull focus shots, it completely ruins it.


Maybe with some off them, but so far the ones I’ve listed that I use don’t show that issue.


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## padam (Aug 7, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Wait. Ya lost me.... That’s the XC body pics you posted? Or is that what you’re thinking the new RF body is and these images are something new?








There are the older ones which are a bit more like the XC series cameras, but I think this is not how it will look like as the other one does seem to fit two LP-E6NH batteries instead of just a single one.

But these pictures might show an EF Speed Booster mounted on in an interesting way, extending into the body, which might explain why these new adapters will only fit to these types of bodies.


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## Glfrost (Aug 7, 2020)

With this system a true video/cinema in a competitive price point would challenge Sony A7s3 as viable professional solutions. An addon module with pro SDI & GEN LOC would make this a great remote but broadcast solution.


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 7, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> Or they could do it right and do SDI AND TC and lose the HDMI altogether.


Then they'd lose the whole market which already invested in an external recorder, such as a lot of people that shoots with the Ninja V on their EOS R or C100 Mk II.


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## spomeniks (Aug 7, 2020)

padam said:


> This patent uses the same mount and batteries, so I assume it is not far off how it's going to look like.
> View attachment 191947
> 
> View attachment 191948
> ...


Wow, thanks for sharing that! That looks like a great little camera


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## MaxDiesel (Aug 7, 2020)

Dantana said:


> On the R, if you go to page 3 of the C.Fn3: Operation Menu, "RF lens MF focus ring sensitivity," there are options for "Linked to rotation degree" and "Varies with rotation speed" the second of which I believe is the default, but I'm not sure since I have it set to linear. I think I changed that during my initial setup.
> 
> I haven't shot much in the way of manual focus with my one RF lens, so I can't attest to its functionality, but I wanted to make sure you knew where it was.
> 
> I'm on firmware 1.6.0


Its there it works, it makes it linear but it feels to long.. at least for me. You really have to turn the barrel almost 360 degrees to go from near to far. Amazing for micro adjustments but not so great following someone. I wish I could also set how much rotation la degrees would be part of the linear movement.


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## sanj (Aug 10, 2020)

jwflowersii said:


> I don't think anyone replied to you, but the issue is focus breathing, so when trying to do any pull focus shots it sucks


Ah. Thank you. Are EF lenses free of focus breathing?


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