# The new 5D Mark V and R version.



## Ozarker (Oct 20, 2019)

Since the thread about the upcoming 5D Mark V and R version got hijacked into a total DR (Dumb Ruminations) cluster and measurbating contest...

What are your hopes for the 5D Mark V and R II? No DR silliness allowed. No removable mirror box wierdness allowed either.

Will this be the point where you split into mirrorless? Or will you be staying with the DSLR? They both have their own unique positives and negatives.


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## Kit. (Oct 20, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> No removable mirror box wierdness allowed either.


How about removable (or rather attachable) EVF?


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## Ozarker (Oct 20, 2019)

Kit. said:


> How about removable (or rather attachable) EVF?


But why? The 5D Mark V would have an OVF. The R II would have an EVF.


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## Kit. (Oct 20, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> But why?


In short:


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## YuengLinger (Oct 20, 2019)

The R II should have a much faster refresh rate for the EVF during AI Servo and high-speed bursts. In my opinion, the current R is great for more or less static portraiture with some posing motions, but any kind of action quickly outpaces the EVF and starts me guessing where the subject might have moved to. This plus a faster shot-per-minute burst rate would make it a much more rounded body.

Effective IBIS is another must at this point, and if it really works in the four-stop or better range, would be a huge feature to have with the great primes that have already come out.

As for the 5D V, to be attractive to current 5D IV users, it would need better AF through the OVF, and it would need to match the Live-View AF of the next gen R. Hopefully Canon will be able to overcome the impulse or the technical hurdle with 4k Video and the infamous monster crop. Plus some method of quickly posting photos to the Web, as that seems to be a major thing these days.

And each should come with a free year (meaning a coupon worth the $100 fee, not free repairs) of CPS, starting when the warranty ends. Why not? It is one of the few value-added features that still keeps Canon head and shoulders above the competition. I'm surprised how little Canon seems to be promoting CPS.

How Canon plans to manage the psychological dilema of to mirror or not to mirror is anybody's guess!


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## Ozarker (Oct 20, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> The R II should have a much faster refresh rate for the EVF during AI Servo and high-speed bursts. In my opinion, the current R is great for more or less static portraiture with some posing motions, but any kind of action quickly outpaces the EVF and starts me guessing where the subject might have moved to. This plus a faster shot-per-minute burst rate would make it a much more rounded body.
> 
> Effective IBIS is another must at this point, and if it really works in the four-stop or better range, would be a huge feature to have with the great primes that have already come out.
> 
> ...


Interesting times for sure. I think IBIS is a given in the next R.


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## JohnC (Oct 20, 2019)

I’d like to see the noise character I’m seeing with the M6 Mark II. CHARACTER, meaning an absence of banding when lifting shadows. 

Beyond that I’m happy with the 5D IV for landscape shooting although I would like more resolution which probably doesn’t happen significantly until the hi-res model comes out.

If the EVF on the hi-res is as good as what I’m seeing with the M6 II, I’ll buy it...I’m assuming it will be mirrorless


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## jd7 (Oct 20, 2019)

If they can find a way to give the next generation of DSLRs the sort of AF accuracy at wide apertures/shallow DOF that the EOS R is getting (by all reports), pretty sure I'll stay with DSLR (even if that means no IBIS for me). If not, I will find it a harder decision. The AF accuracy and the relatively light and compact (when retracted) RF 70-200/2.8L IS does tempt me towards the R system, but the EVF, battery life and a few small issues I've read about (such as AF and/or IS running when you wouldn't necessarily expect it to) still bother me. I'm not sure what I'll do, but it may end up coming down to what I think of the EVF and whether the price of RF lenses starts coming down (and that may depend at least in part on when we start seeing some third party RF lenses out there).


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## Ozarker (Oct 21, 2019)

JohnC said:


> I’d like to see the noise character I’m seeing with the M6 Mark II. CHARACTER, meaning an absence of banding when lifting shadows.
> 
> Beyond that I’m happy with the 5D IV for landscape shooting although I would like more resolution which probably doesn’t happen significantly until the hi-res model comes out.
> 
> If the EVF on the hi-res is as good as what I’m seeing with the M6 II, I’ll buy it...I’m assuming it will be mirrorless


If the 5D Mark V is mirrorless... it won't be a 5D Mark V.


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## Ozarker (Oct 21, 2019)

jd7 said:


> If they can find a way to give the next generation of DSLRs the sort of AF accuracy at wide apertures/shallow DOF that the EOS R is getting (by all reports), pretty sure I'll stay with DSLR (even if that means no IBIS for me). If not, I will find it a harder decision. The AF accuracy and the relatively light and compact (when retracted) RF 70-200/2.8L IS does tempt me towards the R system, but the EVF, battery life and a few small issues I've read about (such as AF and/or IS running when you wouldn't necessarily expect it to) still bother me. I'm not sure what I'll do, but it may end up coming down to what I think of the EVF and whether the price of RF lenses starts coming down (and that may depend at least in part on when we start seeing some third party RF lenses out there).


With the R, continuous AF can be switched off in the menu system. Otherwise, yes, it is always trying to focus at whatever you are pointing at. I wouldn't know about IS because I don't have any IS lenses anymore, but I suspect switching off continuous focus would solve that too. AF accuracy is unbelievably good.


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## JohnC (Oct 21, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> If the 5D Mark V is mirrorless... it won't be a 5D Mark V.



probably true but I’m not 100 percent convinced of that. A lot of history and successful marketing associated with the 5D line, as well as the 1D line.

IF the future will ultimately be mirrorless only at some point it is hard for me to think they would drop those names entirely. More so for the 1 series and the 5. The 1 series goes back to the film days. 

Maybe the 3 will rear it’s head again


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## Ozarker (Oct 21, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> How Canon plans to manage the psychological dilema of to mirror or not to mirror is anybody's guess!


Medical marijuana card included.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 21, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> With the R, continuous AF can be switched off in the menu system. Otherwise, yes, it is always trying to focus at whatever you are pointing at. I wouldn't know about IS because I don't have any IS lenses anymore, but I suspect switching off continuous focus would solve that too. AF accuracy is unbelievably good.


Unfortunately, IS remains on unless switch on lens is OFF.


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## jd7 (Oct 21, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> With the R, continuous AF can be switched off in the menu system. Otherwise, yes, it is always trying to focus at whatever you are pointing at. I wouldn't know about IS because I don't have any IS lenses anymore, but I suspect switching off continuous focus would solve that too. AF accuracy is unbelievably good.


Thanks CFB. Is continuous AF the same as servo AF, or something different? If it's servo AF, it should AF only when the shutter button is half pressed or the back button if you use back button focus, shouldn't it? Are you saying that an EOS R will keep focusing even when no button is being pressed? Sorry if I'm confused but ... I'm confused!


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## JohnC (Oct 21, 2019)

jd7 said:


> Thanks CFB. Is continuous AF the same as servo AF, or something different? If it's servo AF, it should AF only when the shutter button is half pressed or the back button if you use back button focus, shouldn't it? Are you saying that an EOS R will keep focusing even when no button is being pressed? Sorry if I'm confused but ... I'm confused!



"Continuous AF" is not the same. It is a setting that causes the camera to ALWAYS adjust itself to remain in general focus. In other words, if the camera is on or not asleep.. it will keep focusing.

I suspect very useful for video, not so much for stills shooting.


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## jd7 (Oct 21, 2019)

JohnC said:


> "Continuous AF" is not the same. It is a setting that causes the camera to ALWAYS adjust itself to remain in general focus. In other words, if the camera is on or not asleep.. it will keep focusing.
> 
> I suspect very useful for video, not so much for stills shooting.


OK, thanks. I will have to read up on it, but it sounds like it may be a non-issue for me - I almost never shoot video, so I imagine I'd hardly ever turn it on.


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## Ozarker (Oct 21, 2019)

jd7 said:


> Thanks CFB. Is continuous AF the same as servo AF, or something different? If it's servo AF, it should AF only when the shutter button is half pressed or the back button if you use back button focus, shouldn't it? Are you saying that an EOS R will keep focusing even when no button is being pressed? Sorry if I'm confused but ... I'm confused!


John gives a good explanation as to how it works.


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## Act444 (Oct 22, 2019)

For the DSLR, I think I'm getting to a point where the 5D4/5DS feature set is about as much camera as I need or desire. With the 5D4 replacement, the only thing I'd desire would be perhaps more resolving power from the sensor - i.e., weaken (or remove altogether) the AA filter. Of course, improvements in high ISO and AF should be standard by now. If they must cram in more megapixels, I would not want more than 36MP for everyday shots. I think 30-32 is a "sweet spot" - offering ample room to crop while not being too unforgiving for handholding shots. 

As for the mirrorless variant, well, let's just say the list gets a lot longer. I won't list it all here, but to start - the EVF and AF operations need to be more responsive, the button layout needs tweaking, and technologies like IBIS need to be implemented. 

I can't say at this point when and where I will "split off" so to speak. Now, I've already moved on to MILC for APS-C (the Canon M series). But it's a bit of a harder sell to me for FF. The cameras and lenses aren't THAT much smaller or lighter. I feel like I would be trading one set of pros/cons for another, likely with more cons involved. Stay tuned.


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## Dockland (Nov 16, 2019)

I would like (in short)

30 Mpix sensor is alright
Improved dynamic range
4 CF-fast card slots
Same or similar autofocus as EOS R
The joystick from 5D mk IV
No dedicated "named" buttons, all customizable


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## Viggo (Nov 16, 2019)

I’m not ever going back to a mirror camera, but what I want to see in a R upgrade is:

Proper weather sealing
Proper weather sealing
“Lag less” EVF, res is fine as is everything else.
Better tracking for fast erratic movement, preferably with auto select AF point.
Much less shutter lag, it’s driving me mad.
25 mp and better noise handling.
8 fps.
Dual slots for those occasional can’t miss moments.
Change the level from the Boeing cockpit one to a smaller top of the EVF one.
30% better battery life with the same battery.
Keep the Touch Bar.


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## scyrene (Nov 16, 2019)

If a 5DV comes, it'll be another iterative affair. Maybe ~40MP, a bit better AF, a bit better video, possibly slightly lighter, slightly better jpegs at high ISO, but I can't see what else would change. The 1Dx3 will give us a good idea how radical they're feeling.


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## StoicalEtcher (Nov 16, 2019)

scyrene said:


> If a 5DV comes, it'll be another iterative affair. Maybe ~40MP, a bit better AF, a bit better video, possibly slightly lighter, slightly better jpegs at high ISO, but I can't see what else would change. The 1Dx3 will give us a good idea how radical they're feeling.


Sounds pretty good to me, considering the starting point  

In terms of "what else..", my vote would always go for a better spread of focus points - less worried about just how many there are, more about how much closer to the edge can you go..


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## deleteme (Nov 16, 2019)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Sounds pretty good to me, considering the starting point
> 
> In terms of "what else..", my vote would always go for a better spread of focus points - less worried about just how many there are, more about how much closer to the edge can you go..



I wonder if the dearth of focus points towards the edges in all DSLRs has something to do with the angularity of the light hitting the off axis sensors.


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## Durf (Nov 17, 2019)

If the 5DV has approx. 32 to 36MP and a flip screen it may just grab my attention.....


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## StoicalEtcher (Nov 17, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> I wonder if the dearth of focus points towards the edges in all DSLRs has something to do with the angularity of the light hitting the off axis sensors.


I'm just the user, not the engineer, but I guess there must be _some _good (physics based) reason why not, or it would have been done years ago as a matter of course...?


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## Kit. (Nov 17, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> I wonder if the dearth of focus points towards the edges in all DSLRs has something to do with the angularity of the light hitting the off axis sensors.


More likely it's about the limited size of the secondary mirror (the one that directs the light toward the AF sensor at the bottom of the mirrorbox).


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## BeenThere (Nov 17, 2019)

The R needs a low power mode to extend battery life in a walk-around, always ready situation. This could be a lower Rez, lower refresh rate in live view or EVF; that would quickly switch to full Rez at half press of shutter button. Menu selectable feature.


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## TominNJ (Nov 17, 2019)

Kit. said:


> How about removable (or rather attachable) EVF?





CanonFanBoy said:


> Since the thread about the upcoming 5D Mark V and R version got hijacked into a total DR (Dumb Ruminations) cluster and measurbating contest...
> 
> What are your hopes for the 5D Mark V and R II? No DR silliness allowed. No removable mirror box wierdness allowed either.
> 
> Will this be the point where you split into mirrorless? Or will you be staying with the DSLR? They both have their own unique positives and negatives.



My wishlist is focus bracketing, improved autofocus, more resolution, better dynamic range. I’m satisfied with my 5D IV burst rate. I don’t use it that often and 20 OOF birds in flight are no better than 10.

I haven’t seen a compelling reason to go mirrorless but I‘d consider one if the camera did something the 5D X couldn’t. The only EVF I’ve seen was on a Sony and I wasn’t impressed. Way too small for my old eyes.


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## Act444 (Nov 21, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> The R needs a low power mode to extend battery life in a walk-around, always ready situation. This could be a lower Rez, lower refresh rate in live view or EVF; that would quickly switch to full Rez at half press of shutter button. Menu selectable feature.



Yes, the closest is “Eco” mode, which lowers the frame rate in the EVF/LCD but that is a binary on/off function. I wonder if it could be integrated like you mentioned.


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## Viggo (Nov 21, 2019)

Act444 said:


> Yes, the closest is “Eco” mode, which lowers the frame rate in the EVF/LCD but that is a binary on/off function. I wonder if it could be integrated like you mentioned.


You can activate ECO-mode without sacrificing frame rate etc also.


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## docsmith (Nov 21, 2019)

For the 5DV, fix this battery drain issue when camera is turned off, and give me 10-12 fps. That may be enough for me to get the 5DV. Give me better spread on my AF points, all the better. I'll happily accept any improvements to the sensor, but they really are not necessary. I would also like >1,000 shots per battery charge on a consistent basis. Right now, I am all over the place. It has never been an issue, as I've never gone through my backup battery as well, but it would be nice.

As for the EOS R system, it is a bit tough to know what straw they have to add to make me start buying into the R system. I've been telling myself if they create a highish (82 MP seems too high) MP EOS R with M/SRAW that keeps file sizes down to ~30 MB when I do not need full IQ that can do at least 7 fps, that I may finally jump. I am hearing great things about the AF after the recent update, so it is becoming tempting. I've yet to try the EVF, but have disliked all those that I have tried (M, Fuji, and Sony). So, that is more about the rumored "High MP" EOS-R.

For me to buy an RII? 30-36 MP, 10-12 fps, battery life over 1,000 shots, whatever IQ advances they have, AF as fast as a DSLR (may be there) and me confirming I can live with the EVF.

But, I am as likely to buy an amazing 5DV as I am an R system camera. Maybe more so.


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## unfocused (Nov 21, 2019)

docsmith said:


> ...For me to buy an RII? 30-36 MP, 10-12 fps, battery life over 1,000 shots, whatever IQ advances they have, AF as fast as a DSLR (may be there) and me confirming I can live with the EVF.
> 
> But, I am as likely to buy an amazing 5DV as I am an R system camera. Maybe more so.



As long as you keep buying Canon cameras, Canon doesn't care if it is a DSLR or a mirrorless. 

Not trying to pick on you, but just trying to illustrate that when people say they want "X" in a mirrorless or they will stick with a DSLR, they don't understand that Canon isn't trying to convert anyone to mirrorless. Different form factors have different strengths and weaknesses. That's not likely to change. All Canon is trying to do is empty your wallet. And, if it is with DSLRs, Mirrorless or lenses, it's all the same to them. Only people on forums care which you choose.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 22, 2019)

Seeing as there is not going to be a 7d3 and i am looking for a camera that will give me improved results for Aurora photography I am getting close to the point where i may/will enter the mirrorless world. I will keep the 7d2 for wildlife photography so will not require a speed demon and will probably be able to live with the evf currently on the R. Tbh the current r may be enough for me. Maybe the release of the next model will push the price of the r down a bit more and i might pull the trigger. Maybe if the next r body is a more capable setup for action i might even get it and use it for wildlife in place of the 7d2. Its not an easy decision as my disposable income has to be managed more carefully than some.


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## Kit. (Nov 22, 2019)

unfocused said:


> As long as you keep buying Canon cameras, Canon doesn't care if it is a DSLR or a mirrorless.


Unless some cameras are higher-margin than others.

Also, people not buying RF mount cameras won't be buying RF mount lenses.


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## docsmith (Nov 22, 2019)

unfocused said:


> As long as you keep buying Canon cameras, Canon doesn't care if it is a DSLR or a mirrorless.
> 
> Not trying to pick on you, but just trying to illustrate that when people say they want "X" in a mirrorless or they will stick with a DSLR, they don't understand that Canon isn't trying to convert anyone to mirrorless. Different form factors have different strengths and weaknesses. That's not likely to change. All Canon is trying to do is empty your wallet. And, if it is with DSLRs, Mirrorless or lenses, it's all the same to them. Only people on forums care which you choose.


No worries, I agree with your point, just not sure why you are making it. I was not trying to address Canon, but respond to the OP, which asked "will this be the point that you split into mirrorless." Perhaps this wasn't obvious, but my list for the RII was the same I was looking for in the 5DV, plus confirming I could tolerate or even enjoy the differences between mirrorless and dSLR. The subtle point being, I am looking at features, regardless of "mirrorless" or "dSLR" because in the end, I want a camera that feels good in my hand, that I enjoy using, and does as many things as I would want it to do. The list of those things does not change just because it is mirrorless or a dSLR.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Nov 22, 2019)

Viggo said:


> I’m not ever going back to a mirror camera, but what I want to see in a R upgrade is:
> 
> Proper weather sealing
> Proper weather sealing


The R has proper weather sealing. Unless you plan to stand outside in heavy rain with it for well over an hour, you're set.









Canon EOS R Review - Weather Testing


Canon EOS R Review - EOS R Weather Testing



www.imaging-resource.com


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