# The definition of insanity



## miah (Jun 25, 2014)

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome… I don't know how many times I have to be taught the same lesson: photographers and non-photographers are like oil and water.

I just returned from 3 weeks on the big island of Hawaii with my wife. We had a great trip, but I once again schlepped way too much photo gear along thinking I'd have the time and quiet to really focus--pun intended. Instead, I should have left the bulky, heavy, expensive, theft-prone camera pack (replete with 2 bodies, 6 lenses, tripod, filters, timers, flash, etc.) at home, and simply taken my 5D3 and 24-105. Nothing else was really used.

In my experience, when I travel alone or with another photog, there always seems to be time to set-up and shoot, but when I'm with one or more non-photographers, all of that "nonsense" takes too long.

Can anyone relate?


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## distant.star (Jun 25, 2014)

.
Sounds like you need some of that self-help, assertiveness training.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> I just returned from 3 weeks on the big island of Hawaii with my wife. (replete with 2 bodies, 6 lenses, tripod, filters, timers, flash, etc



I would say that was a bit execessive unless you went on a photography only trip. But for a normal with family vacation, yeah, that's an insane amount of equipment.


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## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2014)

One needs to define the purpose of the activity and pack accordingly.


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## miah (Jun 25, 2014)

Lighten up, distant.star, I used this trip as an example, but the same could be said for any of my non-photog family, friends and acquaintances. The point is, nobody wants to wait. Photography, at least good photography, requires patience--something that's often in short supply.

Because I was going to one relatively small island for 3 whole weeks and had the luxury of a rental car, I splurged and took more gear than I normally do when traveling alone on foot, by canoe or by bike. It was to be a break from having to travel so light. I thought I could really take my time to set up and wait for the critters, for the light, for the many photo opportunities that patience usually affords, but it was not to be.

I'm just curious if others have encountered this oil and water metaphor themselves and if so, what's the solution? I'm leaning towards getting a smaller/lighter super zoom for whenever I'm in mixed company and calling it good.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 25, 2014)

Perfect case for a7 series.


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## mackguyver (Jun 25, 2014)

miah, that sounds about right and on my last few trips, I've just taken my 5DIII and 50L or 24-70. There's definitely a big gap between a vacation and a photo trip and I've rarely wished I had brought more gear, but frequently wished I had brought less.


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## unfocused (Jun 25, 2014)

Pruning down the gear takes discipline but it's worth it. Typically, my vacation travel kit consists of one body, either the 24-105mm or the 15-85 EF-S, and the 70-300 L. 

My wife happens to enjoy taking pictures, hiking and birdwatching, so that makes it easier for me, but neither of us devote our vacations to photography, as we frequently travel with another couple so we make accommodations to keep everyone happy.

Getting up while everyone else is still sleeping to catch the early morning sun, or going out in the early evening to catch the late afternoon sun while everyone else is back at the apartment, condo or hotel resting provides some time for pictures. 

Finally, it helps to keep some perspective. Most vacation sites have been photographed a million times, often by photographers who live in the area or who come back year after year, in all seasons, all times of day and all kinds of weather. It's actually healthy to sit back and recognize that on your 10-day vacation you are unlikely to ever capture some new, never before seen iconic image of a site that 10,000 photographers visit every month, of every year.


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## chauncey (Jun 25, 2014)

Photography against the clock is an exercise in futility.


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## Lee Jay (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome… I don't know how many times I have to be taught the same lesson: photographers and non-photographers are like oil and water.
> 
> I just returned from 3 weeks on the big island of Hawaii with my wife. We had a great trip, but I once again schlepped way too much photo gear along thinking I'd have the time and quiet to really focus--pun intended. Instead, I should have left the bulky, heavy, expensive, theft-prone camera pack (replete with 2 bodies, 6 lenses, tripod, filters, timers, flash, etc.) at home, and simply taken my 5D3 and 24-105. Nothing else was really used.
> 
> ...



No. My wife and family encourage me to bring a lot of stuff, and to take whatever time I need to get good shots of what we are doing.

I generally take a 5D and four lenses plus a teleconverter.


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## dppaskewitz (Jun 25, 2014)

For me, like you, it is a constant battle (mostly with myself). My wife and I are trying to work it out. I pretty much ruined our honeymoon in Paris (2008) taking photos of the Eiffel Tower (and everything else I saw). Now, if I am out or traveling on vacation with my wife, I take the M, with perhaps the zoom or 22. And try not to get carried away. But, my wife does encourage me to go off on my own when we travel, so I take my regular kit as well. I just don't try to use it when with my wife. We recently spent 3 weeks on Maui. My wife had purchased a four day workshop for me. She stayed at the condo, I went on the workshop. And, my wife encouraged me to go out at other times alone. It works if your wife is understanding of your hobby and independent enough to send you out to do your thing. That makes it much easier to use a little camera and limit yourself to quick snaps (or nothing at all) during the time you spend with her.


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## wsheldon (Jun 25, 2014)

dppaskewitz said:


> For me, like you, it is a constant battle (mostly with myself). My wife and I are trying to work it out. I pretty much ruined our honeymoon in Paris (2008) taking photos of the Eiffel Tower (and everything else I saw). Now, if I am out or traveling on vacation with my wife, I take the M, with perhaps the zoom or 22. And try not to get carried away. But, my wife does encourage me to go off on my own when we travel, so I take my regular kit as well. I just don't try to use it when with my wife. We recently spent 3 weeks on Maui. My wife had purchased a four day workshop for me. She stayed at the condo, I went on the workshop. And, my wife encouraged me to go out at other times alone. It works if your wife is understanding of your hobby and independent enough to send you out to do your thing. That makes it much easier to use a little camera and limit yourself to quick snaps (or nothing at all) during the time you spend with her.



Congrats - sounds like a lesson learned (honeymoon) and recipe for a successful marriage. Good advice as well.


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## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2014)

I'm very lucky when travelling somewhere with my sweetheart.... she's the better photographer..

but when paddling with my canoe club, forget photography... no way they will stop long enough....


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## eos650 (Jun 25, 2014)

When on family vacation, I try to travel light. I would love to have my high end equipment with me, but when I am on vacation I don't want to pack it around and seldom have the time to use it and I don't like to stand out, with expensive gear, when in another country.

In May I went for 10 days. I took a T2i, an EF-S 17-55, an EF-S 55-250 and a 270EX II flash. I left my full-frame's, big whites and L-Series at home.

I still got a bunch of great pictures

Of course a trip dedicated to photography would be a different matter and I would also be traveling with a different crowd.


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## EELinneman (Jun 25, 2014)

Miah,

Not a criticism, but there are 3 kinds of activities, your interests, her interests (assuming you are a heterosexual man), and shared interests. It sounds like the vacation was heavy on shared interests and you brought gear for your interests. You are not the first to go through this. Might be time to plan your next trip with some clear times set out for your interests - photography and not just snapshots. I understand this is frustrating as is evident from your post. Put it behind you and plan forward.


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## Rienzphotoz (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> Can anyone relate?


Absolutely!
On long vacations (3 weeks or more) I tend yo carry a lot of gear but don't get to use all of it, having to carry the heft ... this is one of the reasons why I started liking the mirrorless system, as it allows me to carry 2 cameras, 6 lenses & 2 speedlites in a shoulder bag ... in fact, in about 48 days I will be selling my 5D MK III, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II & 16-35 f/2.8 L II ... already got a buyer who gave me an advance yesterday ... but knowing me I may end up buying another Canon FF camera, most likely the 5D MK IV ;D (whenever that comes out) ... I guess one never learns ;D ... I once read somewhere that photography is a far more expensive vice than drug addiction, coz druggies tend to die quickly, but photographers live longer, thus spend more money.


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## cellomaster27 (Jun 25, 2014)

chauncey said:


> Photography against the clock is an exercise in futility.



I can't agree with you enough on that. Haha 
When I'm out and about with people who aren't photographers or those who aren't as serious, I just expect not to get all my shots while being around them.. With the time it needs. i.e. Long exposures to name one. A lot of the times I'll just have a camera on a BR sling with a dslr and lens. That's all. Or use my iPhone. When I'm out, usually by myself, I'll take the whole party of joy with me. Haha 6 lenses, tripod, flashes... I'll leave out my softbox.  
I learn that people enjoy the photos (granted it's not crap) but don't care for the effort and time put in it. Unfortunately, what others might not care for, that's what I enjoy. A good balance is always key for you and those around you. Happy shooting!  ;D


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## miah (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks for your perspective, guys. My wife is actually exceedingly patient with my photography most of the time, but sometimes it's "her trip too." I get that. I guess I just need to adjust my kit (and frame of mind) for the company I keep, pairing down to the basics when it's not specifically a "photo trip." I'm just so unaccustomed to having a car to cart things around, I went hog-wild on this last trip and threw in the kitchen sink.

Like *unfocused*, my typical solo travel kit consists of just one body and two lenses, either a 5D3 + 24-105 + 70-300 L or even lighter, a T3i + 15-85 EFs + 70-300 DO. But I have to disagree with him about shooting what everyone else has already shot. First off, it's not like you're "wearing it out;" it may have been shot a million times before, but it's the first time for me, so I still enjoy it. 

For example, while on the big island the park service told us there was presently no flowing lava at HI Volcanoes. So, my wife and I embarked on a 10-hour, ankle-deep thrash through a muddy, unmaintained "trail" in the rainforest outside of the national park to look for possible run-off from Pu'U O'o volcano (based on data from the USGS). Goose egg. Gluttons for punishment, we thrashed in again some ten days later through knee-to-sometimes-thigh-deep mud (more rain) for 12 more hours, half of which was in the dark--and lo and behold: LAVA!

Sure, there are plenty of great shots of molten goo to go around, but there's nothing like getting up close and personal with new earth. Really new earth. If this was the only shot I came home with, I was glad to have packed my 5D. Next time, however, I'll only take one lens.


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## drjlo (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> Instead, I should have left the bulky, heavy, expensive, theft-prone camera pack (replete with 2 bodies, 6 lenses, tripod, filters, timers, flash, etc.) at home, and simply taken my 5D3 and 24-105.



What's really insane is thinking 5D3+24-105 is the non-bulky, portable setup ;D

Seriously though, for "fun" vacations, I am thinking I might pick up the Sony RX100 III or Pansonic FZ1000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpyCJdjYFVg


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## unfocused (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> ...But I have to disagree with him about shooting what everyone else has already shot.



Don't get me wrong. I do the same thing. Just trying to make the point that there are pictures you take to preserve memories and pictures you take to boost your portfolio. Sometimes you can do both on a vacation. But there is nothing wrong with putting aside the portfolio pursuit and simply enjoying the experience. 

There are studies, by the way, that show that memories are more vivid and lasting when you don't take pictures than when you do.


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## Rienzphotoz (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> it may have been shot a million times before, but it's the first time for me, so I still enjoy it.


+1 ... life is all about experiencing it personally ... just because someone else has experienced something and captured it, does not mean we shouldn't capture it with our camera ... much of what we do in life has been done by billions of people before us, yet we find joy, happiness and fulfillment in experiencing it ourselves for the first time ... so why should it be any different just because others think we shouldn't be photographing the same scenery shot a million times before!
BTW, that's a very nice image ... I've never seen lava in real life, one day I'd like to and I'm sure I'll go crazy photographing the lava, even if there are a billion of those photos on the internet.


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## mackguyver (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> For example, while on the big island the park service told us there was presently no flowing lava at HI Volcanoes. So, my wife and I embarked on a 10-hour, ankle-deep thrash through a muddy, unmaintained "trail" in the rainforest outside of the national park to look for possible run-off from Pu'U O'o volcano (based on data from the USGS). Goose egg. Gluttons for punishment, we thrashed in again some ten days later through knee-to-sometimes-thigh-deep mud (more rain) for 12 more hours, half of which was in the dark--and lo and behold: LAVA!
> 
> Sure, there are plenty of great shots of molten goo to go around, but there's nothing like getting up close and personal with new earth. Really new earth. If this was the only shot I came home with, I was glad to have packed my 5D. Next time, however, I'll only take one lens.


Cool photo!


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## dgatwood (Jun 25, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> miah said:
> 
> 
> > I just returned from 3 weeks on the big island of Hawaii with my wife. (replete with 2 bodies, 6 lenses, tripod, filters, timers, flash, etc
> ...



Nah. Other than the filters (which I pretty much never use except for permanently mounted IR filters), that's actually pretty tame compared with my usual vacation kit. Unless I'm vacationing in a place where I go frequently, I generally overpack gear-wise, under the assumption that I might not get a second chance to take any given shot.

My normal vacation kit contains eight lenses and two TCs, though two of those lenses are rarely on my person. About 99% of the time, I'm shooting with a 16–35L II, a 24–105L, and a 70–300L. I also may or may not carry 1.4x and/or 3x TCs, depending on where I'm going. I usually have my shorty 40 (for when I need to be more discreet), and sometimes a 58mm Helios 44M and 44M-4 pair that mostly ride around in the bag unless I have lots of extra time to do portrait shooting.

My flash stays in the bag 99% of the time, but comes out when I want to brighten shadowed faces against a backlit sky.

In my luggage, I carry a backup (crop) body so that if something were to happen to my main body, I could shoot with an iPhone for the rest of the day, and swap to the older camera when I get back to the hotel. This also means carrying an EF-S 17–85 and a 10–22 just in case I end up shooting with the backup body.

And of course, I also carry several empty 32GB flash cards, which tend to end up full by the end of the trip. A normal vacation is one where I only average 600-700 photos per day.  Maybe it's just me.




chauncey said:


> Photography against the clock is an exercise in futility.



Nah. It just requires a lot more preparation. 




unfocused said:


> There are studies, by the way, that show that memories are more vivid and lasting when you don't take pictures than when you do.



Their methodology must have been seriously flawed to come to that conclusion, or at least the style of vacation that they studied must be very different from my own. When I'm on vacation, I'm almost always *constantly* under a severe time crunch because of other people's schedules, whether it's because we have to meet at a particular time to go sing Vespers with the Cappella Giulia, or because our tube travel pass isn't valid until 9:30 and every freaking tourist destination in London stops doing tours at three in the afternoon. If you want to see everything, you have to be very agile, and constantly adjust your plans when certain locations take longer than expected, and even then, you often have to cut things.

Of course, occasionally, the time crunch is because we simply didn't schedule enough time in a particular city... like our infamously grueling "Paris in a day" Metro tour that started at Gare du Nord at noon-ish, and included the Eiffel Tower (to the top), Notre Dame, Sacré Coeur, the Louvre (outside), the small arch, the Tuileries Garden, Place de la Concorde, the Arc de Triomphe (where you get a beautiful view of the Eiffel Tower at night), and ended at our hotel at Place de la République some time after 11 P.M.

Because of the borderline frantic nature of my vacations, there's never enough time in any one place to fully take it in, so the places that I remember most vividly are the ones where (after I get home) I can look back at photographs that I took while taking it in. The places where I wasn't allowed to take pictures are pretty much blurs. I'm unlikely to remember much about any of those locations, because there simply wasn't enough time to properly form memories without the reinforcement of photographs.

This is why I absolutely *hate* it when churches and castles and other tourist locations don't allow photography. It really ruins it for me. Ask me what I remember of Sacré Coeur, and I'll tell you, "The outside". I don't remember a single thing from the interior. I couldn't even tell you if it was Gothic or Romanesque. But ask me about Notre Dame, and I'll tell you about the stained glass windows that hinged open, the huge backlit cross in the area behind the altar, and the cardinal (presumably, based on his attire) who was preaching at the center altar. I'll tell you about how puzzled I was at seeing Spanish text at the baptismal font. I'll tell you about how yellow the stone columns looked in the artificial lighting. And so on.

If studies show that somehow my memories of Sacré Coeur should be more vivid, then either they didn't study people who vacation like I do or they falsified the data outright. Because there's no way in you-know-where that I would remember something more vividly without photos than with. I'm lucky to remember those locations at all.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 25, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Perfect case for a7 series.


 
When people post the same thing over and over, dozens or hundreds of times, is that something similar/


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## Lurker (Jun 25, 2014)

Yep. This is why Canon makes great zooms with IS.

My wife is good about it but it does get boring for her so I try to keep that in mind. My GF when I first started photography wasn't so patient.

I did have a photographer say he had rules when he went on family vacations. Something like sunrise and sunset +/- an hour was his time. He decided where to go and there was no discussion/whinning. This was his work which made the vacation possible in the first place. If the others could take care of themselves they could choose to go along or not. The rest of the day was family time. Similar could be done with non-photog friends and family, just let everyone know in advance that was your expectation.

I try to do similar. My wife has realized that it pays to be up and out by sun up and back out later in the day. More relaxing, no crowds, less heat and almost no kids in ear shot. Midday is for napping or driving.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 25, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Perfect case for a7 series.
> ...



What is 1+1? The answer is always 2.

Bad day at work?


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## Canon1 (Jun 25, 2014)

miah said:


> They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome… I don't know how many times I have to be taught the same lesson: photographers and non-photographers are like oil and water.
> 
> I just returned from 3 weeks on the big island of Hawaii with my wife. We had a great trip, but I once again schlepped way too much photo gear along thinking I'd have the time and quiet to really focus--pun intended. Instead, I should have left the bulky, heavy, expensive, theft-prone camera pack (replete with 2 bodies, 6 lenses, tripod, filters, timers, flash, etc.) at home, and simply taken my 5D3 and 24-105. Nothing else was really used.
> 
> ...



I can relate, however I can also make a suggestion. When I travel with non-photographers I make a point of waking up well before sunrise to shoot. I generally get out on location in the dark. Then I shoot for a couple hours and I am back to meet the family for breakfast. The rest of the day is not great for shooting, so I bring a camera but just for record and memory shots. Then I always try to plan for a day or two where I can sneak out for a nice sunset. 

I get my fill when the light is great... and I don't "waste" non-photog's time during the day... when the light is poor anyway.


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## lholmes549 (Jun 25, 2014)

I know exacly what you mean. As I write this I'm on holiday in Lagos, Portugal with the family. Very little time is afforded to the taking of photographs so I have to make time for myself! I think I also brought too much kit: 6D, 14mm, 24-105, 50 1.4 and 70-200 plus filters and timer. 
My tactic has been getting up before 5am every morning and hiking to all the lovely isolated beaches, coves and cliffs nearby. We have a rental car too but there's enough close by and I enjoy the walk. This works doubly well because the light is great at these times and no one else is awake so I can do whatever I want and spend hours just waiting for the right moment and enjoying the scenery! I also head out after midnight at times to do astro scenes. Sunset is off limits due to dinner/world cup. 
Because I've been limited to what I can do I've only really used the 14 and 24-105 until today when I used the 70-200 at the zoo. The 50 1.4 has been brought out to dinner at times but only because its there. 
I guess you just have to make the most of what you have, but I know other times I've been very limited and one lens would have been enough for all the photography I was able to do.


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## Rocky (Jun 26, 2014)

My standard travel kit was 40D+17-40mm(main lens)+28-135mm(less than 15% usage)+ SD 870(as back up)+8X32 binocular. After the 40D died in Ukraine (fixed with alcohol on the spot) and the SD 870 died in Australia without a suitable replacement, my travel kit IS 40D+20D plus the two above mentioned lens(one on each body). They fit nicely with the binocular in a Amazon sling bag. The total weight of the bag is 9 lbs. It is not a burden for me.
This kit just gone through an Eastern Europe River cruise and a Alaska cruise tour.


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## KeithBreazeal (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm going on a photo trip, would you like to tag along?
I'm going on a photo trip. Be back in 3 weeks.
I'm going on a photo trip. Be gone 3 weeks. Here's my schedule. Would you like to fly out and join me for a couple of days?

I think I'll join her at Yellowstone for a few days. My iPhone takes really good photos!

relating...


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## wickidwombat (Jun 26, 2014)

Rienzphotoz said:


> miah said:
> 
> 
> > it may have been shot a million times before, but it's the first time for me, so I still enjoy it.
> ...


I agree billions of people have had sex but it still never gets boring!


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## bholliman (Jun 26, 2014)

I have the same problem. I always take too much gear on family vacations expecting and hoping to have time to take some great pictures, but inevitability I seldom have time for much more than quick shots.

We are right now in Alaska, just wrapping up three weeks in the 49th state. I took my 6D, 24-70, 70-200, 100L Macro, Rokinon 14mm and a rented Tamron 150-600 as well as my EOS-M, 22 and 18-55 lenses, 3 600EX-RT's, ST-E3-RT, flash bender, mini softbox, set of Lee filters, other filters, tripod, monopod and other assorted items that took up one large backpack and overflowed into my suitcase.

So far I'm used the 6D and 24-70 90% of the time, the Tamron 150-600 9% (wildlife and whale watching cruise). I've taken token shots with my other three lenses just to feel better about lugging them around. The flash equipment has gotten little use despite intentions for better lit portraits of the family in front of various landmarks as normally there isn't time to set things up properly. 

Next vacation, I swear I'll just take my 24-70 and 100 or 135mm, :


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## mackguyver (Jun 26, 2014)

bholliman said:


> I've taken token shots with my other three lenses just to feel better about lugging them around.


LOL - I know that one! 

I did have one other suggestion - the best travel kit for all kinds of subjects for me has been the 24-70 f/2.8 II & 70-200 f/4 IS & 1.4x III. You can cover nearly any subject with these three.


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## dgatwood (Jun 26, 2014)

bholliman said:


> I have the same problem. I always take too much gear on family vacations expecting and hoping to have time to take some great pictures, but inevitability I seldom have time for much more than quick shots.



Just hold the button down, and there's a good chance that a few of those quick shots will be good.


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## mackguyver (Jun 26, 2014)

dgatwood said:


> Just hold the button down


Not recommended for 1D X shooters without a few dozen 128GB cards


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## Rienzphotoz (Jun 26, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > miah said:
> ...


 ;D ;D ;D ... I still find it very stimulating and most exciting


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