# The Canon EOS R5c is coming in Q1 2022 [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 2, 2021)

> Last year we received the first reports of a videographer focus EOS R5 camera named the Canon EOS R5c. I have now received multiple confirmations that such a camera is in the pipeline.
> The announcement and release date have apparently been pushed back to Q1 of 2022. Originally we were told that an announcement around NAB in October was possible, but it looks like it has been pushed back. I do think Canon would like products announced and shipping within 60 days of the announcement.
> What do we know about the Canon EOS R5c?
> It’s an EOS R5 with active cooling, a slightly different form factor, and more codecs for video recording. The camera will also come with a full-size HDMI port.
> Keep in mind that most of the specifications from the Canon EOS R5 will carry over to the Canon EOS R5c.



Continue reading...


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## Del Paso (Jul 2, 2021)

Youtubers will hate it, no more overheating .
Yet, they are so inventive, they'll soon focus on another "issue"...


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## InchMetric (Jul 2, 2021)

I don't do video with my R5, but am happy they are diverging because that may mean the regular models are still photo focused.


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## fox40phil (Jul 2, 2021)

Hm when will get the R5 &6 an QoL update to lower the FPS in photomode etc…

Will there be also a R5a?
If I could bring a new Canon R… I would bring something <R5 or alsp <R6 but with 30MP and ~10-12 FPS, IBIS and dual cards.


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## Pierre Lagarde (Jul 2, 2021)

Del Paso said:


> Youtubers will hate it, no more overheating .
> Yet, they are so inventive, they'll soon focus on another "issue"...


Their first reaction will be "why pay more for a camera that is just what it should have been from the start ?"... so predictable.


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## justaCanonuser (Jul 2, 2021)

Nice news, but I still hope for any R7 rumors that are not too far away from reality


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## InchMetric (Jul 2, 2021)

That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.

It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps. 

It shows the hot areas rear, with card extended, side, top and front.

The first impression is that the card is the "smoking gun" but it wasn't alarmingly hot more than the rest, and I suspect it just reflects interior temp, not the heat source.


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## Bonich (Jul 2, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Oh, that's good news!
This will be a Canon R body not taking my money out of the pocket due to the fact me primarily focussing on stills  
- R
- R5
- R3 ?
- R1 ???


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## m4ndr4ke (Jul 2, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The first impression is that the card is the "smoking gun" but it wasn't alarmingly hot more than the rest, and I suspect it just reflects interior temp, not the heat source.


The memory card could be _one of_ the heat sources, considering the high throughput of the CFexpress.

I don't do video, but shooting stills my R6 usually gets slightly warm, mostly on the left side. But yeah, just warm, it doesn't make the camera uncomfortable to hold.


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## justaCanonuser (Jul 2, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Canon now has IBIS...
> Canon now has sensors essentially equal in DR and noise...
> 
> f/7.1...the last refuge for the Sony trolls!






InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> 
> It shows the hot areas rear, with card extended, side, top and front.


Be happy that it gets hot, because this means the camera is able to transport enough heat outside. If it would stay cool, it would melt internally. That's the price one has to pay for high data rates in high MP, fast shooting cameras in compact bodies, because today's semiconductor tech is extremely ineffective. And the more data such a camera has to process, the hotter gets it internally. That's no special problem of Canon, that's the limits of actual silicon based semiconductor tech. IBM's Watson, e.g., consumes Megawatts of electrical power and transforms it mainly into heat that has to be vented out of the processors. In contrast, our brain, capable of lots of Teraflops of computing power, just needs 20 Watts and heats the head up to only about 37 °C (w/o feaver, of course). Neurons are much smarter, that's why I still love to use my eyes as natural cameras and draw what I see


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## padam (Jul 2, 2021)

The Kolari Vision (DIY Perks) mod costs 400$, so this camera being a separate model from Canon and also having extra features regarding software is probably 2000$ more than an R5.
I wonder how the R3 is going to turn out with regards to heat management, maybe they will take the same approach as in the R5/R6 to segment it from their video cameras, which are also going to receive BSI stacked sensors.


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## Tremotino (Jul 2, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Be happy that it gets hot, because this means the camera is able to transport enough heat outside. If it would stay cool, it would melt internally. That's the price one has to pay for high data rates in high MP, fast shooting cameras in compact bodies, because today's semiconductor tech is extremely ineffective. And the more data such a camera has to process, the hotter gets it internally. That's no special problem of Canon, that's the limits of actual silicon based semiconductor tech. IBM's Watson, e.g., consumes Megawatts of electrical power and transforms it mainly into heat that has to be vented out of the processors. In contrast, our brain, capable of lots of Teraflops of computing power, just needs 20 Watts and heats the head up to only about 37 °C (w/o feaver, of course). Neurons are much smarter, that's why I still love to use my eyes as natural cameras and draw what I see


I do agree with what you said, but comparing neurons and transistors is kind of pointless.
CPUs are getting with each interation more enery efficient not less.


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## John Wilde (Jul 2, 2021)

The C70 demonstrates why the original R5 didn't include a fan. A fan makes the camera "fat".


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## sanj (Jul 2, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> 
> ...


The camera getting hot while shooting stills is awful.


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## Sean C (Jul 2, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Be happy that it gets hot, because this means the camera is able to transport enough heat outside. If it would stay cool, it would melt internally.


While I take your point, it assumes a zero sum game.
If the programming is more efficient, if high cpu work is done on a dedicated asic, if the chips are lower voltage parts or if the chips are made with a smaller more advanced process less heat will be created for the same work done.
If the heat has no direct path to the outside camera body, then the entire body will heat soak with local uncontrolled heating, which is what we see. If the heat is led to an outside surface (preferably with a heat pipe), heat will flow to that surface. The total heat output of the camera remains the same. That outside surface needs to be broad enough that the total heat energy is spread out, and also needs to be able to shed heat to the air (i.e. exposed black anodized aluminum not insulating grip material).
If there were a heat pipe to a base plate with an exposed aluminum/mag base, video shooters could mount a heat sink in place of a battery grip and increase the thermal capacity of the camera a great deal. At design time, a camera metal body that's partly exposed at the baseplate and a less than $10 heat pipe would be the only changes. I suspect the new camera will be something similar, but with the grip heat sink as an integral part as that's the obvious way to go.


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## Rivermist (Jul 2, 2021)

The good news may be that owners of R5 cameras who are interested in video will migrate to the new R5c and offer their R5 bodies for sale. This will create a pre-owned market that would otherwise have had to wait for the launch of a hypothetical R5Mk2 in 2023 or 2024.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

Del Paso said:


> Youtubers will hate it, no more overheating .
> Yet, they are so inventive, they'll soon focus on another "issue"...


That's what happened with dynamic range, full frame mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, 'pro' mirrorless bodies, 'amateur' mirrorless lenses.......


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## robotfist (Jul 2, 2021)

The body will probably be a bit bigger and I imagine it won't be weather-sealed due to the need for more air flow.


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## Finn (Jul 2, 2021)

R3 still looking like a better body potentially.
Unless R5C will FF C70 with DGO.


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## entoman (Jul 2, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> Hm when will get the R5 &6 an QoL update to lower the FPS in photomode etc…


Yes, being limited to 20fps in electronic shutter is just plain ridiculous, I can't see any logic behind it.

Why can't we have a choice between single shot, low (5ps), medium (10fps) and high (20fps)...

And while they're fixing issues, it would be nice if the eyepiece sensor had a user adjustable timer, to prevent the EVF shutting down 4 seconds after removing the camera from the eye.


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## entoman (Jul 2, 2021)

sanj said:


> The camera getting hot while shooting stills is awful.





InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.


Can you specify what you mean by a "warm" day - I regularly use my R5 in temperatures of 30ºC and I'll typically shoot 500 shots in the space of 3 hours. My grip never gets hot or uncomfortably warm. The back of the camera gets warm, but never uncomfortable, and I've never had any issues shooting stills all day (mostly in short 10 fps bursts).


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## landon (Jul 2, 2021)

Finn said:


> R3 still looking like a better body potentially.
> Unless R5C will FF C70 with DGO.


The C90 will possibly be FF, not sure DGO or not, maybe a C500ii sensor.


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## frjmacias (Jul 2, 2021)

Now that I have these news, I am stuck deciding between buying the C70 when I have a chance, or holding off to pair this one with my current R5. I guess it would largely depend on if the differences between the bodies are only in weather sealing and ergonomics or if there will be minor tweaks. Sense tells me that if the cameras are mostly similar, I should sell my R5 and replace it with the R5c, but having a body dedicated for only stills could also be beneficial.


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## entoman (Jul 2, 2021)

Pierre Lagarde said:


> Their first reaction will be "why pay more for a camera that is just what it should have been from the start ?"... so predictable.


Yeah, but as much as I loathe the trolls, they are right when they say that. The camera should not really have been launched until it could reliably shoot 8K for a decent time without overheating. It doesn't bother me personally, as I use my R5 purely for stills, but I can understand why video people complained.


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## Kit. (Jul 2, 2021)

entoman said:


> Yeah, but as much as I loathe the trolls, they are right when they say that. The camera should not really have been launched until it could reliably shoot 8K for a decent time without overheating. It doesn't bother me personally, as I use my R5 purely for stills, but I can understand why video people complained.


Personally, I would not appreciate if the camera I am using were delayed or cancelled because of less than ideal performance in the modes I can easily live without.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

Canon killed it in 2019 and 2020.
It seems like they are taking 2021 off and will kill it in 2022.
I still feel there needs to be some sort of APS-C announcement.


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> Now that I have these news, I am stuck deciding between buying the C70 when I have a chance, or holding off to pair this one with my current R5. I guess it would largely depend on if the differences between the bodies are only in weather sealing and ergonomics or if there will be minor tweaks. Sense tells me that if the cameras are mostly similar, I should sell my R5 and replace it with the R5c, but having a body dedicated for only stills could also be beneficial.


I’m having the same kind of hesitation but with a Sony A1 instead of the C70… But then if I enter an ecosystem I’ll be kind of stuck in it, so maybe I’ll just buy an R5 and then replace it with a r5c… I’m just totally afraid of the overheating issue, as I intend to shoot a lot of long form video in 4KHQ, even with a ninja it seems to overheat


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## Tallerbane (Jul 2, 2021)

The number 1 feature this would need for it to be an instant buy as a video centric body is internal NDs, 10 stops. Also high on the list is EVF removal/nerf, doing away with it entirely would be nice like the FX3.

Speaking of the FX3, XLR and SDI ports not in an awkward spot would cement the R5C as an amazing small form factor FF one man band workhorse, especially with the consistency and reliability a professional needs thanks to the fan preventing overheating.

Nice to have/pie in the sky items:

-Timecode (is that really a hard ask?)
-Detachable monitor
-Android OS (its 2021 and the OS's we pay for are stuck in the early 2000s?)
-External 8k 60fps with 1.1 crop 
-Using this release as a redoubling of efforts to make canon light raw optimized and viable. Investing in a high spec apple machine for pro res raw and relying on partially processed (denoised, debayered)""raw"" from black magic is a terrible state of affairs.


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## FrenchFry (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon killed it in 2019 and 2020.
> It seems like they are taking 2021 off and will kill it in 2022.
> I still feel there needs to be some sort of APS-C announcement.


R3 is considered "taking 2021 off"? Tough crowd.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

Finn said:


> R3 still looking like a better body potentially.
> Unless R5C will FF C70 with DGO.


R5c should be 8K RAW while R3 will be 6.7K RAW.
I also expect R5c to have more cinema camera features.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

landon said:


> The C90 will possibly be FF, not sure DGO or not, maybe a C500ii sensor.


C500ii does not have DGO but rumors are C500iii might.


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

Tallerbane said:


> The number 1 feature this would need for it to be an instant buy as a video centric body is internal NDs, 10 stops. Also high on the list is EVF removal/nerf, doing away with it entirely would be nice like the FX3.
> 
> Speaking of the FX3, XLR and SDI ports not in an awkward spot would cement the R5C as an amazing small form factor FF one man band workhorse, especially with the consistency and reliability a professional needs thanks to the fan preventing overheating.
> 
> ...


You’ll never get internal ND’s nor timecode and detachable monitor. Canon would kill their cinema line if they did it and they never will. So forget about it or buy a proper cinema camera.

They will simply add a better cooling system/design + full size HDMI and label it R5C, period.

(Wouldn’t even be surprised they’d even lower the sensor resolution to 45MP to 35MP to keep selling the original R5)


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## CanonGrunt (Jul 2, 2021)

Don’t body shame my chonky c70. I think it’s cute. Pleasantly plump. 

Would absolutely be terrible for stills though… 



John Wilde said:


> The C70 demonstrates why the original R5 didn't include a fan. A fan makes the camera "fat".


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

robotfist said:


> The body will probably be a bit bigger and I imagine it won't be weather-sealed due to the need for more air flow.


The C70, RED Komodo, and FX3 are all weather-sealed.
There is no reason R5c will not also be.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

The pricing and system differentiation between an R5C and the C70 will be an interesting conundrum for Canon. The R5 is $3,899, the C70 is $5,499. The R5 is FF and 8k, the C70 S35/APS and 4K.

If the R5C has active cooling and no video limits it gets difficult to see how they will price it so as not to kill the C70.

Of course the C70 has built in ND filters which I doubt the R5C would have, it also has mini SDI outputs, good battery options and lots of video centric software, and of course it gets that awesome EF to RF speed booster.

I‘m glad I’m not in the product marketing meetings making these decisions!


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> R3 is considered "taking 2021 off"? Tough crowd.


Can I buy one?


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## Berowne (Jul 2, 2021)

Okay, we will have a R5 and a R5 C. Will the pricing be the same as in the case of the 1D X and the EOS-1D C?


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> The pricing and system Differentiation between an R5c and the C70 will be n interesting conundrum for Canon. The R5 is $3,899, the C70 is $5,499. The R5 is FF and 8k, the C70 S35/APS and 4K.
> 
> If the R5C has active cooling and no video limits it gets difficult to see how they will price it so as not to kill the C70.
> 
> ...


C70 will keep internal NDs, XLR inputs, SDI output and better dynamic range over the R5C, hence the price


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## Tallerbane (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> You’ll never get internal ND’s nor timecode and detachable monitor. Canon would kill their cinema line if they did it and they never will. So forget about it or buy a proper cinema camera.
> 
> they will simply add a better cooling system/design + full size HDMI and label it R5C, period.


Guess I'll wait for less scrupulous competitors to make the ultimate sub 10k FF solo video workhorse then


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> You’ll never get internal ND’s nor timecode and detachable monitor. Canon would kill their cinema line if they did it and they never will. So forget about it or buy a proper cinema camera.
> 
> They will simply add a better cooling system/design + full size HDMI and label it R5C, period.
> 
> (Wouldn’t even be surprised they’d even lower the sensor resolution to 45MP to 35MP to keep selling the original R5)


Who says R5c will not be part of the cinema line?
1DC was.


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

Tallerbane said:


> Guess I'll wait for less scrupulous competitors to make the ultimate sub 10k FF solo video workhorse then


You’ll have to wait quite a long time then I think. Unless if it’s video you can do Sony, they’re good at it with the A1. it’s very solid but no DCI nor 8K raw


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> C70 will keep internal NDs, XLR inputs, SDI output and better dynamic range over the R5C, hence the price


C70 has no SDI output.


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Who says R5c will not be part of the cinema line?
> 1DC was.


It will be, but not packed with those features (NDS, XLR, TC) that would kill the rest of the line


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## FrenchFry (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Can I buy one?


In the year 2021? Yes, most likely you will be able to pre-order and purchase an R3. We still have 6 months to see what Canon is bringing to market this year, both in terms of bodies and lenses.


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> C70 has no SDI output.


Sorry my mistake I was actually thinking about timecode


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## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> C70 will keep internal NDs, XLR inputs, SDI output and better dynamic range over the R5C, hence the price


I know, I said that. But you are putting an 8k ff sensor with superb HQ oversampled 4K against a 4K S35 sensor for very similar money. I know those that need XLR’s and SDI’s etc appreciate and would get the C70 anyway, again, I know the differences between the two. My open question was that it is an interesting marketing and pricing conundrum for Canon.

Personally if I was a video shooter the C70 makes much more sense to me than a video camera that gives up nearly every other video centric feature for a headline 8k. I’m just wondering out loud where Canon will draw the line on R5C features and price.


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## padam (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> C70 will keep internal NDs, XLR inputs, SDI output and better dynamic range over the R5C, hence the price





privatebydesign said:


> I know, I said that. But you are putting an 8k ff sensor with superb HQ oversampled 4K against a 4K S35 sensor for very similar money.


The C70 image is actually superior to the R5 (a bit less digital)
4k60p (if not shot in crop mode) and 4k120p much higher quality as well, the R5 gets softer in those modes and I don't see them enabling 8k60p in this generation of cameras.

So no, an actively cooled R5 is still only a companion to the C70, not a replacement.


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I know, I said that. But you are putting an 8k ff sensor with superb HQ oversampled 4K against a 4K S35 sensor for very similar money. I know those that need XLR’s and SDI’s etc appreciate and would get the C70 anyway, again, I know the differences between the two. My open question was that it is an interesting marketing and pricing conundrum for Canon.
> 
> Personally if I was a video shooter the C70 makes much more sense to me than a video camera that gives up nearly every other video centric feature for a headline 8k. I’m just wondering out loud where Canon will draw the line on R5C features and price.


My guess is it will be similarly priced to the R5 but with a smaller sensor size like 35,4MP to differentiate it and segment the line


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

padam said:


> The C70 image is also superior to the R5 (a bit less digital), 4k60p (if not shot in crop mode) and 4k120p much higher quality as well.


Indeed


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> It will be, but not packed with those features (NDS, XLR, TC) that would kill the rest of the line


An 8K cinema line is supposed to be coming.
It is a bit early to say that one camera in the line would kill off the others when none exist yet.
I hope that Canon makes the first camera with internal NDs and IBIS.
Since no one else has done it, I will not chalk it up to conspiracy if it does not happen.


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## snappy604 (Jul 2, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> 
> ...


the cards do generate an incredible amount of heat which is then trapped inside and I assume spreads. I've had the card on an external reader (prograde also) and it gets nasty hot after transferring files. its incredible how how cards can get.. same with batteries. This used to occur on earlier cameras (like my 80d) but they were pushing much less data so more tolerance.. we're now pushing incredible amounts or data, so doesn't surprise me it gets hoooooot, esp with amazing weather sealing.. no good way to dissipate it.

it basically requires a rethink and probably some tough choices on weather sealing vs heat dissipation. Active cooling probably compromises weather sealing. Maybe specific areas can be made to act like heat sinks, but not an expert (will readily admit)

really noticed it during a recent heat wave, it was incredibly uncomfortable to hold and battery seemed to drain faster in the heat. Still love the camera though.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> My guess is it will be similarly priced to the R5 but with a smaller sensor size like 35,4MP to differentiate it and segment the line


Not a chance. It will have the same sensor (for cost) and be a lot more expensive than the R5. My guess puts it very close to the C70 which is why I commented.


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## snappy604 (Jul 2, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> The C70 demonstrates why the original R5 didn't include a fan. A fan makes the camera "fat".


big boned...


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> An 8K cinema line is supposed to be coming.
> It is a bit early to say that one camera in the line would kill off the others when none exist yet.
> I hope that Canon makes the first camera with internal NDs and IBIS.
> Since no one else has done it, I will not chalk it up to conspiracy if it does not happen.


I think the tech is years ahead in a lot of fields but companies just have to follow a route map.

It’s not conspiracy, it’s business


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> In the year 2021? Yes, most likely you will be able to pre-order and purchase an R3. We still have 6 months to see what Canon is bringing to market this year, both in terms of bodies and lenses.


You seem like a year half full type of person.


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Not a chance. It will have the same sensor (for cost) and be a lot more expensive than the R5. My guess puts it very close to the C70 which is why I commented.


Could definitely be that way


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## FrenchFry (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> You seem like a year half full type of person.


Just naively hoping the R3 will join me on a trip in November. Trying to stay positive in spite of the announcement delays.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

padam said:


> 4k60p (if not shot in crop mode)


Why would you compare super 35 4k60p to FF 4K60p?
We never have to shoot full-frame 4K on the R5, but it is there if we need it.
C70 does not have that option with RF lenses.


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## FrenchFry (Jul 2, 2021)

With product differentiation between the R5 and the R5c, there is room to hope that some day the R5 might actually get a set of firmware upgrades focused on stills. (Choice of FPS on electronic shutter, for instance.) That's the dream.


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## Juangrande (Jul 2, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Nice news, but I still hope for any R7 rumors that are not too far away from reality


Unless it also comes with its own line of smaller mount and cheaper lenses I’m not understanding the need as you could just crop tighter (the R5 has a 1.6x crop option in camera) the R cameras are already smaller in form than a dslr, any smaller and they’d be cumbersome to use like the Sony bodies.


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## padam (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Why would you compare super 35 4k60p to FF 4K60p?
> We never have to shoot full-frame 4K on the R5, but it is there if we need it.
> C70 does not have that option with RF lenses.


Because it is unlikely that one shoots in 4k HQ full-frame and then switch to crop mode for 4k60p, just not very practical compared to FF mode.
It is not the same as having the same crop for all frame rates. Also the cinema 4K crop mode on the R5 is 1.6x versus 1.43x on the C70.
4k60p is better on the C70 anyway, because DGO is still active in that mode.


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## InchMetric (Jul 2, 2021)

Sean C said:


> If the heat has no direct path to the outside camera body, then the entire body will heat soak with local uncontrolled heating, which is what we see. If the heat is led to an outside surface (preferably with a heat pipe), heat will flow to that surface. The total heat output of the camera remains the same. That outside surface needs to be broad enough that the total heat energy is spread out, and also needs to be able to shed heat to the air (i.e. exposed black anodized aluminum not insulating grip material).
> If there were a heat pipe to a base plate with an exposed aluminum/mag base, video shooters could mount a heat sink in place of a battery grip and increase the thermal capacity of the camera a great deal. At design time, a camera metal body that's partly exposed at the baseplate and a less than $10 heat pipe would be the only changes. I suspect the new camera will be something similar, but with the grip heat sink as an integral part as that's the obvious way to go.


I'd probably be happy with some insulation in the two spots that have the firmest flesh contact: middle finger knuckle under the shutter release, and thumb on the rear. Some kid of aftermarket stick-on might do.


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## InchMetric (Jul 2, 2021)

entoman said:


> Can you specify what you mean by a "warm" day - I regularly use my R5 in temperatures of 30ºC and I'll typically shoot 500 shots in the space of 3 hours. My grip never gets hot or uncomfortably warm. The back of the camera gets warm, but never uncomfortable, and I've never had any issues shooting stills all day (mostly in short 10 fps bursts).


The high temp that day was 90F, and I was mostly in the shade.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> With product differentiation between the R5 and the R5c, there is room to hope that some day the R5 might actually get a set of firmware upgrades focused on stills. (Choice of FPS on electronic shutter, for instance.) That's the dream.


I'm sure they will save that for the R5 II.


----------



## frjmacias (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I’m having the same kind of hesitation but with a Sony A1 instead of the C70… But then if I enter an ecosystem I’ll be kind of stuck in it, so maybe I’ll just buy an R5 and then replace it with a r5c… I’m just totally afraid of the overheating issue, as I intend to shoot a lot of long form video in 4KHQ, even with a ninja it seems to overheat


If you absolutely need to shoot long form and the Ninja V doesn't give you enough time for the shooting you need to do, I would also suggest getting a dedicated cinema camera. The A1 does not have as many overheating issues as the R5 had prior to the firmware, but there are still a number of reports that it does overheat in 8K over extended periods. In non HQ mode, the Ninja V allows recording with the R5 for over 3 hours according to some testing I have seen. In HQ mode, it seems to top out at a little over an hour. That is personally enough for me, but if you need much longer recording times, even the A1 might not be enough. I would recommend buying a dedicated cinema camera like the Sony FX6 or a Canon C300 Mark III. The plus side is you will get all the professional tools you need for shoots as well. XLR, built-in ND, V mount batteries, etc.


----------



## padam (Jul 2, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> In non HQ mode, the Ninja V allows recording with the R5 for over 3 hours according to some testing I have seen.


Yes, but those tests are taken indoors.
In these days, the outdoor temperature here is up to 38°C, and this is where things can start to heat up rather quickly (and cool down slowly) and adding all that extra set of accessories connected via micro-HDMI can cause other problems.


----------



## Skux (Jul 2, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> R3 is considered "taking 2021 off"? Tough crowd.


Well it hasn't been announced yet, and who knows when it'll actually be available.


----------



## Atlasman (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I’m having the same kind of hesitation but with a Sony A1 instead of the C70… But then if I enter an ecosystem I’ll be kind of stuck in it, so maybe I’ll just buy an R5 and then replace it with a r5c… I’m just totally afraid of the overheating issue, as I intend to shoot a lot of long form video in 4KHQ, even with a ninja it seems to overheat


I did 2.5 hrs of continuous recording with R5 and Ninja V at 32C (90F) temp (4K HQ) and found that the recorder heated more than the R5.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

padam said:


> Because it is unlikely that one shoots in 4k HQ full-frame and then switch to crop mode for 4k60p, just not very practical compared to FF mode.


Who says you need to shoot 4K HQ full-frame mode either?
I shoot 4K crop mode a lot of the time.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jul 2, 2021)

Juangrande said:


> Unless it also comes with its own line of smaller mount and cheaper lenses I’m not understanding the need as you could just crop tighter (the R5 has a 1.6x crop option in camera) the R cameras are already smaller in form than a dslr, any smaller and they’d be cumbersome to use like the Sony bodies.


I am not sure why this question keeps coming up.
The R7 is expected to be a lot cheaper than the R5 and the resolution is expected to be a lot higher than the R5 cropped.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Jul 2, 2021)

Tremotino said:


> I do agree with what you said, but comparing neurons and transistors is kind of pointless.
> CPUs are getting with each interation more enery efficient not less.


Well, my move to neurons was a bit of irony, but not really pointless. With more and more AI and machine learning in cameras, I expect artificial neural networks to play a growing role. With artificial neurons built by say 400 transistors, the problem of inefficiency is even more evident. I know what I am talking about, I once specialized in semiconductor physics during my studies, and I am editor of a physics journal that publishes a lot of scientific papers about solid state physics related topics. 

But, don't take my comment personally, I just wanted to show that a hot camera body mustn't be a bad thing . If you have a MacBook and do heavy-sided image processing with it on your lap, you experience a lot of heat from the processors, too.


----------



## padam (Jul 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Who says you need to shoot 4K HQ full-frame mode either?
> I shoot 4K crop mode a lot of the time.


For a hybrid camera, having the same crop in photo and video is always best in practise when switching between them.

And as I wrote: bigger 1.6x crop, no DGO, overheating in 4k60p APS-C mode.
The C70 has inferior AF, but most people who have both the R5 and the C70 prefer the latter, and not just because of the overheating.


----------



## mdcmdcmdc (Jul 2, 2021)

I hope they really do call it R5c to mess with all of the people who like to make up new names for their Mark I bodies after new versions come out by appending a "c", e.g. calling the first 5D DSLR the "5Dc".


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## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> If you absolutely need to shoot long form and the Ninja V doesn't give you enough time for the shooting you need to do, I would also suggest getting a dedicated cinema camera. The A1 does not have as many overheating issues as the R5 had prior to the firmware, but there are still a number of reports that it does overheat in 8K over extended periods. In non HQ mode, the Ninja V allows recording with the R5 for over 3 hours according to some testing I have seen. In HQ mode, it seems to top out at a little over an hour. That is personally enough for me, but if you need much longer recording times, even the A1 might not be enough. I would recommend buying a dedicated cinema camera like the Sony FX6 or a Canon C300 Mark III. The plus side is you will get all the professional tools you need for shoots as well. XLR, built-in ND, V mount batteries, etc.


Yeah, I know that. But I need a hybrid to shoot both video and quality stills. An FX6 or C300 won’t shoot stills for that matter.


----------



## Chig (Jul 2, 2021)

Juangrande said:


> Unless it also comes with its own line of smaller mount and cheaper lenses I’m not understanding the need as you could just crop tighter (the R5 has a 1.6x crop option in camera) the R cameras are already smaller in form than a dslr, any smaller and they’d be cumbersome to use like the Sony bodies.


If you use this crop option in an R5 then the file is only 17mp whereas an R7 could have say a 30-35mp crop sensor.

Most people wanting an R7 plan to use it with FF telephoto lenses and RF-s versions of these wouldn't be significantly smaller as the front elements would be the same size and only the elements at the camera end would be a bit smaller.
For example an RF-s 600mm f/4 would still have a front element of at least 150mm diameter as the entrance pupil is 600/4 = 150mm.
The price would be similar to FF for L quality glass and at most a weight saving of 5%.

For people such as myself who want a crop sensor R camera for birding etc. a smaller form factor would be a disadvantage, my dream camera would be an R3 body with an aps-c BSI stacked sensor of about 30-35mp which I could use with long telephotos for birding (and also with a Metebones EF-RF speed booster I could use full frame EF glass with only a slight crop which would be a bonus)

In terms of pricing if Canon made an aps-c version of the R6 (e.g using the 90D's 32.5mp sensor) then I'd expect the pricing to be similar to or slightly less than the R6 and I'd happily buy one.
If they went all out and made a full-on pro aps-c version of the R3 then I'd be prepared to pay a similar price to the R3 as this would be the best birding camera ever made.

I'm not expecting a bargain similar to my old 7Dii , I want a significant upgrade on it and I'm prepared to pay for it.

I lot of people question how big a market there is for such a specialised birding camera but Canon (and other companies) have spent a lot of money on developing _specific eye autofocus algorithms for birds_ so they probably think a significant number of people shoot birds.


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Yeah, I know that. But I need a hybrid to shoot both video and quality stills. An FX6 or C300 won’t shoot stills for that matter.



Sounds like for your needs you would be better off waiting for the R5c. For my needs, the R5 works very well as a hybrid shooter. I just use the C70 for long form.


----------



## cayenne (Jul 2, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The high temp that day was 90F, and I was mostly in the shade.


Hell, I live in New Orleans....it's pretty much almost that warm when I wake up about 7am.

Hot?

LOL...my AC has been on since April and likely won't shut off till early November.....add humidity to that too.


----------



## jd7 (Jul 2, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> Hm when will get the R5 &6 an QoL update to lower the FPS in photomode etc…
> 
> Will there be also a R5a?
> If I could bring a new Canon R… I would bring something <R5 or alsp <R6 but with 30MP and ~10-12 FPS, IBIS and dual cards.


That's about the R camera I would like to if it was in a body with good ergonomics and controls ... although with Canon's approach to pricing, who knows how much they'd charge for it.


----------



## Chig (Jul 2, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The high temp that day was 90F, and I was mostly in the shade.


Have you asked Canon or the shop where you bought it about this issue?

Most R5 users never seem to have this problem shooting only stills .
Have you installed the latest firmware ?
Sounds like your camera is faulty


----------



## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

crazyrunner33 said:


> Sounds like for your needs you would be better off waiting for the R5c. For my needs, the R5 works very well as a hybrid shooter. I just use the C70 for long form.


Can’t wait, I have a project in a couple of weeks with days long shooting and I already sold my last camera and bought the Ninja, so I just miss the new camera now. Need to make a choice tomorrow, either buy the R5, pray it doesn’t overheat on me and resell it when the R5C is out, or just buy an A1. I’ll buy a whole set of native lenses with either and the total amount spent camera included will be the same in either case, but once I’d have done that I guess I’ll be in one ecosystem (Sony or Canon) for a long time. I crave for the superior IBIS and DCI of Canon, on the other side I’d have the state of the art 50mpx stacked sensor non-8Kraw non DCI capable, non-overheating but reliable, less “cinematic” more “video” and photography killer machine. I have been hesitating for weeks, because one way or another, it will be one brand for years. Tough choice


----------



## canonmike (Jul 2, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Just naively hoping the R3 will join me on a trip in November. Trying to stay positive in spite of the announcement delays.


I hope I have the dilemma in 2021 of deciding whether I'm willing to pay the yet unannounced R3's price, hoping it doesn't shock us like the recent RF 14-35 F4L pricing did, while we cautiously but optimistically wait and see if this lens's performance justifies the price. Actually, I'm hoping we're pleasantly overwhelmed with positive user feedback on both the R3 and this lens. Otherwise, what's the point in buying either??


----------



## frjmacias (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Can’t wait, I have a project in a couple of weeks with days long shooting and I already sold my last camera and bought the Ninja, so I just miss the new camera now. Need to make a choice tomorrow, either buy the R5, pray it doesn’t overheat on me and resell it when the R5C is out, or just buy an A1. I’ll buy a whole set of native lenses with either and the total amount will be the same in either case, but once I’d have done that I guess I’ll be in one ecosystem (Sony or Canon) for a long time. I crave for the superior IBIS and DCI of Canon, on the other side I’d have the state of the art 50mpx stacked sensor non-8Kraw non DCI capable, non-overheating reliable video and photography killer machine. But it will be one way or another for years. Tough choice


I'm primarily a Canon shooter, but use both Sony and Canon depending on what my project needs and what tools I have available. If I had to choose between the two ecosystems, however, I would personally go with Canon because I love their glass.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I do love their glass too! If it was not for that fear of overheating my choice would have been made already :-(


What are your intended shooting resolutions and time limits?


----------



## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> I'm primarily a Canon shooter, but use both Sony and Canon depending on what my project needs and what tools I have available. If I had to choose between the two ecosystems, however, I would personally go with Canon because I love their glass.


I do love their glass too! And their IBIS and DCI and 8K RAW 24 FPS!!! If it was not for the fear of overheating my choice would have been clear and done by now. Im really afraid it would fail on me on day-long 4KHQ shootings


----------



## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> What are your intended shooting resolutions and time limits?


Day long (8am -6pm) run and gun 4KHQ external Ninja recording. I know a proper cinema camera would better suit that need but I need to shoot quality stills as well :-(


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Day long (8am -6pm) run and gun 4KHQ external Ninja recording. I know a proper cinema camera would better suit that need but I need to shoot quality stills as well :-(


----------



## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


>


I saw that, but what’s your point? I’m reading reports of people even having overheating issues while simply shooting stills… it’s really frightening me


----------



## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> I'm primarily a Canon shooter, but use both Sony and Canon depending on what my project needs and what tools I have available. If I had to choose between the two ecosystems, however, I would personally go with Canon because I love their glass.


GM glass seem good quality as well though, don’t you like them? (I personally prefer the RF that tend to be lighter)


----------



## canonmike (Jul 2, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> I'm primarily a Canon shooter, but use both Sony and Canon depending on what my project needs and what tools I have available. If I had to choose between the two ecosystems, however, I would personally go with Canon because I love their glass.


I have to echo your sentiments on Canon's glass, especially their L series. The original EF 300mm F4L with amazingly silent ultrasonic motor, introduced back in the 80's, is what caused me to take my credit card out and buy one, for the low price of only $799.00 at the time. Considering today's L pricing, what a bargain it was. I also purchased an A2e body to use it on but don't remember what I paid for the body at the time. Shortly thereafter, I ran an ad in Shutterbug magazine and sold all my Minolta gear. Like you, because of their glass, I have been a Canon shooter ever since.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I saw that, but what’s your point? I’m reading reports of people even having overheating issues while simply shooting stills… it’s really frightening me


There is not one single well documented incident of an R5 ever overheating using stills only, and I haven’t seen a single account I would trust that shows even when an R5 is or has overheated the camera is bricked and you can’t continue taking stills.

If the gear is really frightening you you are in over your head, so either don’t do the job or rent what you need to do it effectively.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> There is not one single well documented incident of an R5 ever overheating using stills only, and I haven’t seen a single account I would trust that shows even when an R5 is or has overheated the camera is bricked and you can’t continue taking stills.
> 
> If the gear is really frightening you you are in over your head, so either don’t do the job or rent what you need to do it effectively.


Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I’ve been going through forums for days now and found many legit Canon R5 users saying they did experience overheating including shooting stills, it has been surprising to me yet it was the case. Just do a google or YouTube search you’ll be surprised too. By the way you should know that even non video use (ie shooting stills and even having the camera on and standing by) does impact the overheating timer.

I’m doing the job and I’m not renting, I’ll either buy the R5 trusting in can handle 4KHQ output all day long to a ninja or ill buy an A1.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 2, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I’ve been going through forums for days now and found many legit Canon R5 users saying they did experience overheating including shooting stills, it has been surprising to me yet it was the case. Just do a google or YouTube search you’ll be surprised too. By the way you should know that even non video use (ie shooting stills and even having the camera on and standing by) does impact the overheating timer.
> 
> I’m doing the job and I’m not renting, I’ll either buy the R5 trusting in can handle 4KHQ all day long on a ninja or ill buy an A1.


I’d appreciate a link to a reliable and repeatable source showing an R5 stop being able to shoot stills when it has only been shooting stills, as far as I can see that is not a thing. I’d like a link showing any verifiable instance of an R5 overheating and then not being able to take stills, again as far as I can see it simply isn’t a thing. Google searches throw up page after page of untrustworthy click bate and garbage.

Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true... 

As for whether an R5 is the right tool for you to be using, nobody could advise you as they don’t know your actual working situation. For example amount of footage per day, time between video shots, working temp, indoors, outdoors, card use and type and size for stills, etc.


----------



## jam05 (Jul 3, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> Hm when will get the R5 &6 an QoL update to lower the FPS in photomode etc…
> 
> Will there be also a R5a?
> If I could bring a new Canon R… I would bring something <R5 or alsp <R6 but with 30MP and ~10-12 FPS, IBIS and dual cards.


When you request it maybe. Make your request to Canon support. I rarely see this request. It took but a few months of complaining with emails and support page request for Canon to implement "Save settings to disk" on the R5. With proof that it's on other Canon devices. If the function is available on other Canon devices, then state that in your request with model number etc. And post those request on other forums. Do not mix multiple functions in one request.


----------



## jam05 (Jul 3, 2021)

jam05 said:


> When you request it maybe. Make your request to Canon support. I rarely see this request. It took but a few months of complaining with emails and support page request for Canon to implement "Save settings to disk" on the R5. With proof that it's on other Canon devices. If the function is available on other Canon devices, then state that in your request with model number etc. And post those request on other forums also. Do not mix multiple functions in one request.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’d appreciate a link to a reliable and repeatable source showing an R5 stop being able to shoot stills when it has only been shooting stills, as far as I can see that is not a thing. I’d like a link showing any verifiable instance of an R5 overheating and then not being able to take stills, again as far as I can see it simply isn’t a thing. Google searches throw up page after page of untrustworthy click bate and garbage.
> 
> Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true...
> 
> As for whether an R5 is the right tool for you to be using, nobody could advise you as they don’t know your actual working situation. For example amount of footage per day, time between video shots, working temp, indoors, outdoors, card use and type and size for stills, etc.


I don’t mean to be rude but would you actually read before posting you would not add to the garbage. I never said anybody stated his R5 STOPPED taking stills, I said they got overheating issues shooting stills (like, the camera overheats, shows an overheat warning, reduces the timer for possible video shooting, and even possibly degrades the quality of the stills - that last one I didn’t check about it but I assume it would be related to noise amount of some sort as typical as overheating digital sensor can produce but again, i didn’t check further about that specific last claim)

here’s one random picked comment:




please excuse me to not crawl for more, if you don’t know how to search for the information and find it amongst the garbage I won’t do it for you, I did it for myself and was turned off by those comments

and If you had read my posts, you would have understood I’m simply intending to shoot hybrid stills and 4KHQ video on day long run and gun shootings, there’s no need for more info to understand that I may run into overheating issues, whether it’d be indoors or outdoors.

My heart says Canon R5 with a leap of faith and a ninja, my mind unfortunately says Sony A1, that’s it


----------



## Phillips88 (Jul 3, 2021)

R5c is exactly what I need… if it has built in ND’s and less overheating at minimum.

Otherwise I will just stick with my two R5’s.

It’s super disappointing that the R5 overheats at 1080p 120fps too. And I know what people are going to say, “what are you shooting for that length of time with those frame rates?!”

Well, it’s a big deal when shooting a wedding with 1080 60 and then 1080 120 for those special cinematic moments. I had to wait for the camera to cool down just to get a cinematic sequence in a vineyard. A 5 min shoot took 15 min. To break it down, I shoot roughly 10% percent of 1080 120, 65% 1080 60, and then 1080 24 for 25%. 

This has to be a timer issue. The camera wasn’t that hot compared to 8K and 4k 120. The weather was around 85-90 ish, yet it overheated and would reset once the camera was turned off and back on after 30 seconds “ish”.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

Phillips88 said:


> R5c is exactly what I need… if it has built in ND’s and less overheating at minimum.
> 
> Otherwise I will just stick with my two R5’s.
> 
> ...


That’s the kind of comments that freak me out. Did you try shooting with an external recorder?


----------



## h2so4 (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Can’t wait, I have a project in a couple of weeks with days long shooting and I already sold my last camera and bought the Ninja, so I just miss the new camera now. Need to make a choice tomorrow, either buy the R5, pray it doesn’t overheat on me and resell it when the R5C is out, or just buy an A1. I’ll buy a whole set of native lenses with either and the total amount spent camera included will be the same in either case, but once I’d have done that I guess I’ll be in one ecosystem (Sony or Canon) for a long time. I crave for the superior IBIS and DCI of Canon, on the other side I’d have the state of the art 50mpx stacked sensor non-8Kraw non DCI capable, non-overheating but reliable, less “cinematic” more “video” and photography killer machine. I have been hesitating for weeks, because one way or another, it will be one brand for years. Tough choice


So you have an important shoot coming up and you have sold your last camera and you have been hesitating for weeks on what to buy, well first off I'm glad I didn't hire you. Your going to go into an important shoot with a system and lenses that you are unfamiliar with. I hope you're not charging for this shoot. In the weeks that you have been deciding you could have rented both systems and seen for yourself which one was going to suite your needs.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I don’t mean to be rude but would you actually read before posting you would not add to the garbage. I never said anybody stated his R5 STOPPED taking stills, I said they got overheating issues shooting stills (like, the camera overheats, shows an overheat warning, reduces the timer for possible video shooting, and even possibly degrades the quality of the stills - that last one I didn’t check about it but I assume it would be related to noise amount of some sort as typical as overheating digital sensor can produce but again, i didn’t check further about that specific last claim)
> 
> here’s one random picked comment:
> 
> ...


That does not support what I said, yet you are telling me to read before posting.

Did his cameras shut down from stills captures only? No.

Did he give a length of time of operation of stills only to the point his camera with temp warning would not allow him to shoot any video? Again, no.

Does he say what firmware he was running? No.


----------



## JohnC (Jul 3, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Be happy that it gets hot, because this means the camera is able to transport enough heat outside. If it would stay cool, it would melt internally. That's the price one has to pay for high data rates in high MP, fast shooting cameras in compact bodies, because today's semiconductor tech is extremely ineffective. And the more data such a camera has to process, the hotter gets it internally. That's no special problem of Canon, that's the limits of actual silicon based semiconductor tech. IBM's Watson, e.g., consumes Megawatts of electrical power and transforms it mainly into heat that has to be vented out of the processors. In contrast, our brain, capable of lots of Teraflops of computing power, just needs 20 Watts and heats the head up to only about 37 °C (w/o feaver, of course). Neurons are much smarter, that's why I still love to use my eyes as natural cameras and draw what I see


I appreciate that, what is your frames drawn per second?


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

h2so4 said:


> So you have an important shoot coming up and you have sold your last camera and you have been hesitating for weeks on what to buy, well first off I'm glad I didn't hire you. Your going to go into an important shoot with a system and lenses that you are unfamiliar with. I hope you're not charging for this shoot. In the weeks that you have been deciding you could have rented both systems and seen for yourself which one was going to suite your needs.


I wonder why people like you feel compelled to judge others without knowing ?

if I go with the A1 I’ll be in known territory as I’ve been shooting alpha cameras like the last one for years. If I go with the R5, well, I’ve been shooting canon for years too, and i still have plenty of time to test it before the shoot. And in any case, ill show up with a proper functioning gear, and a backup camera. 

I’m charging for this job as I have been for 25 years, and all is well thanks. Now if you don’t have a specific advice on my specific question please refrain from commenting because I just don’t give any value to your judgmental comments.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That does not support what I said, yet you are telling me to read before posting.
> 
> Did his cameras shut down from stills captures only? No.
> 
> ...


Again, you didn’t read: I NEVER said anybody had his camera stop when taking stills. You came up with this, I didn’t.

for your last two questions: he did. Look him up, and plenty of others by yourself.


----------



## frjmacias (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> GM glass seem good quality as well though, don’t you like them? (I personally prefer the RF that tend to be lighter)


Newer GM glass is good, like the 50mm that was recently released, but with other lenses there is issues with focus breathing. For video work, that would definitely be an issue and something to consider. But if you are using the glass for photography, it is still suited to any needs. I cannot comment on Sony's cinema line of lenses, however, as I have never used them.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> Newer GM glass is good, like the 50mm that was recently released, but with other lenses there is issues with focus breathing. For video work, that would definitely be an issue and something to consider. But if you are using the glass for photography, it is still suited to any needs. I cannot comment on Sony's cinema line of lenses, however, as I have never used them.


Thank you very much for that feedback. Definitely resonates! So generally speaking you would experience less focus breathing on the RF L lenses you mean?

I was considering 12-24 GM, 50 1.2 GM, and 200-600 GM on the Sony side

For the R5 I was thinking about the RF 15-35, RF 50 1.2 L USM, RF 85 1.2 USM, RF 70-200 2.8 L and RF 100-500

Do you have any specific experience with those or recommendations?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Again, you didn’t read: I NEVER said anybody had his camera stop when taking stills. You came up with this, I didn’t.
> 
> for your last two questions: he did. Look him up, and plenty of others by yourself.


I can’t find your source data so even though I ‘looked him up’ he has 7 YouTube vidoes with 22 subscribers. He does not say anything authoritative, his comments are not repeatable and he doesn’t list the firmware used.

Alternatively there is Jared Polin, not a particularly popular YouTuber amongst the posters here but he has been using R5’s exclusively for video for 12 months for all his video productions. He has access to any equipment and uses Sony cameras for his stills shooting. He is choosing to use R5’s.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I can’t find your source data so even though I ‘looked him up’ he has 7 YouTube vidoes with 22 subscribers. He does not say anything authoritative, his comments are not repeatable and he doesn’t list the firmware used.
> 
> Alternatively there is Jared Polin, not a particularly popular YouTuber amongst the posters here but he has been using R5’s exclusively for video for 12 months for all his video productions. He has access to any equipment and uses Sony cameras for his stills shooting. He is choosing to use R5’s.


Yeah and for all we know he may be sponsored by Canon.

Nonetheless, he himself acknowledges the overheating issues with the R5, only leaving his two R5 bodies in the studio shooting 4K24, not above… And chose to shoot his stills with the Sony A1 making it his go to camera.

See his latest video, he says all of that himself.


----------



## Phillips88 (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> That’s the kind of comments that freak me out. Did you try shooting with an external recorder?


No, it was all internal.

I originally had intentions of only using one if I shoot 4k, but now with 1080p 120 overheating… might have to use it with 1080p. I would expect the 1080p to at minimum perform without overheating. Feel like it’s a timer thing honestly. 

I’ve had the camera overheat when I was in Vegas doing just stills too. It wasn’t out of the race, but it definitely overheated. 100 degree weather in the dunes.


----------



## frjmacias (Jul 3, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Alternatively there is Jared Polin, not a particularly popular YouTuber amongst the posters here


Funny you mention that. I know I am probably in the minority here, but I love Jared. His videos are all informative for the most part and his news fix series plays to my sense of humor, so I enjoy them.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

Phillips88 said:


> I’ve had the camera overheat when I was in Vegas doing just stills too. It wasn’t out of the race, but it definitely overheated. 100 degree weather in the dunes.


Somebody here is going to either suddenly vanish or dismiss your comment saying your experience is not “repeatable, not authoritative and you don’t list the firmware used” :-/

I thank you for that feedback. Regarding video, according to many users, an external recorder like the ninja should allow you to go well over the timer issue. The question is for how long, mileage seems to vary


----------



## frjmacias (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Thank you very much for that feedback. Definitely resonates! So generally speaking you would experience less focus breathing on the RF L lenses you mean?
> 
> I was considering 12-24 GM, 50 1.2 GM, and 200-600 GM on the Sony side
> 
> ...


The 12-24 GM definitely has the issue as I have personally experienced it. I have not used the other two, but I also frequent Sony user forums and they say the 50mm is very improved in this regard. I have not had the issues as much with my L series lenses.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> The 12-24 GM definitely has the issue as I have personally experienced it. I have not used the other two, but I also frequent Sony user forums and they say the 50mm is very improved in this regard. I have not had the issues as much with my L series lenses.


Thanks a lot, that’s very valuable info to me. May I ask you what set of L lenses you are using?


----------



## frjmacias (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Thanks a lot, that’s very valuable info to me. May I ask you what set of L lenses you are using?


I own the 50mm 1.2 and the 15-35mm 2.8. I have also used the 24-70 2.8, the 24-105mm f4, and the 85mm 1.2. The ones I own have been my favorite and most useful for the work I do.


----------



## vignes (Jul 3, 2021)

a R5 with reduced video features and more stable stills performance in all battery level would be a welcome. reduce this price and bump up the R5 version price for all those video bells and whistles. make those pay more for all those extra R&D cost for those high end video features.
there are many Canon stills shooters whom are paying a premium for those video features which they're not using.
Panasonic does that with paid upgrade or releasing a model like S1H. People whom buy the S1R are mostly buying for stills. it has more useful stills functions.


----------



## djack41 (Jul 3, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> 
> ...


I shoot mostly birds-in-flight at 20 FPS with the R5. A typical day will be a few thousand frames. Over-heating has not been a issue at all. Nor do I feel heat in the grip. Wonder in your camera may have a issue? Might let Canon check it?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Yeah and for all we know he may be sponsored by Canon.
> 
> Nonetheless, he himself acknowledges the overheating issues with the R5, only leaving his two R5 bodies in the studio shooting 4K24, not above… And chose to shoot his stills with the Sony A1 making it his go to camera.
> 
> See his latest video, he says all of that himself.


Yes, I know, that was why I put it there! I’m not interested in convincing you either way, I am just interested in you getting worthwhile and actually relevant information to help you answer your own question instead of bouncing from every nobody with an opinion and unknown allegiance or experience. I don’t know what you are trying to do in enough detail to tell you if an R5 and Ninja V will work for your intended shooting scenario, nobody does, so I’m just trying to help you cut through the crap. 

He, unlike your non ‘link’, has thousands of videos and millions of views. Yes he has a good relationship with Canon but he could easily be using a Cine camera for his video, but he doesn’t. He chooses to use R5’s and if that was costing him time and money he wouldn’t.

But you obviously don’t appreciate my efforts so I’m out, good luck with the gig. It sounds like you’ll need it.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Yes, I know, that was why I put it there! I’m not interested in convincing you either way, I am just interested in you getting worthwhile and actually relevant information to help you answer your own question instead of bouncing from every nobody with an opinion and unknown allegiance or experience. I don’t know what you are trying to do in enough detail to tell you if an R5 and Ninja V will work for your intended shooting scenario, nobody does, so I’m just trying to help you cut through the crap.
> 
> He, unlike your non ‘link’, has thousands of videos and millions of views. Yes he has a good relationship with Canon but he could easily be using a Cine camera for his video, but he doesn’t. He chooses to use R5’s and if that was costing him time and money he wouldn’t.
> 
> But you obviously don’t appreciate my efforts so I’m out, good luck with the gig. It sounds like you’ll need it.


I do appreciate you trying to be of a help and especially this last message.
Im not bouncing from nobodies advice, I’m actually collecting as much faithful user experience and testimonies as I can and I tend to value them much more than any youtuber’s with millions of views who are probably tied with brands and are trying to please the mass.

but then again, even him uses the R5 in its lower capacities and chose to personally shoot the A1 as he said himself.

it’s not an easy choice at all if there is one to make between the two and for example @frjmacias here gave me very valuable info about the focus breathing issues I may encounter with some Sony glass than even make the choice harder.
I would definitely love to buy a proper cinema camera with cine lenses + a photography camera with photo lenses if i could but I have other priorities regarding how to spend the money so I’m just trying to make the best educated choice with those constraints.
Thank you anyway for chiming in and for your wishes of luck, I’ll certainly preciously keep them in heart and I do wish you all the very best as well


----------



## Czardoom (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I do appreciate you trying to be of a help and especially this last message.
> Im not bouncing from nobodies advice, I’m actually collecting as much faithful user experience and testimonies as I can and I tend to value them much more than any youtuber’s with millions of views who are probably tied with brands and are trying to please the mass.
> 
> but then again, even him uses the R5 in its lower capacities and chose to personally shoot the A1 as he said himself.
> ...


Quite frankly, in my experience, gathering as much information from the internet is only going to confuse you more and is perhaps the worst way to choose a product. There is only one way to answer your questions and that is to try it yourself. Too many folks on the internet have their own agendas at the least, and are incompetent or deceitful at the worst. Not sure where you are located or your financial situation, but renting the cameras you are looking for is one solution, purchasing them from a reputable camera store that accepts returns is another. You can study and contemplate all day long, but until you use the camera in exactly the situations you intend to use them, you won't have an answer.


----------



## sanj (Jul 3, 2021)

I like the results of 8k. I will get this camera! Will skip R3 and wait for R1.


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## dboris (Jul 3, 2021)

If the R3 does raw 60p, I wonder how they'll justify the R5C.
Only the 8K capabilities?
I doubt it will have NDs.
The fast readout and better AF of the R3 should make it a better choice.
I expect a R5C to be priced like a C70.
I'm looking towards the R3 to be a video workhorse, however I may be wrong, as it could be crippled canon-style.


----------



## reef58 (Jul 3, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> 
> ...





privatebydesign said:


> There is not one single well documented incident of an R5 ever overheating using stills only, and I haven’t seen a single account I would trust that shows even when an R5 is or has overheated the camera is bricked and you can’t continue taking stills.
> 
> If the gear is really frightening you you are in over your head, so either don’t do the job or rent what you need to do it effectively.


Shot a wedding last Saturday. Used the R5 and 1dx3. Started around 3 and finished around 9. High temps around 90 and out in the sun. Ended up with over 11,000 photos and not one overheating issue. Both cameras were left on the entire time. Both cameras were warm, but it was in the 90's or high 80's the entire time.


----------



## Phillips88 (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Somebody here is going to either suddenly vanish or dismiss your comment saying your experience is not “repeatable, not authoritative and you don’t list the firmware used” :-/
> 
> I thank you for that feedback. Regarding video, according to many users, an external recorder like the ninja should allow you to go well over the timer issue. The question is for how long, mileage seems to vary


Unfortunately everyone has their special opinion ever since the invention of the keyboard...

FOR THOSE PEEPS THO… it’s the firmware that provided clog 3 and 1080p 120fps. Don’t remember the number

The ninja V definitely increases the record times by quite a bit. Pretty much giving unlimited 4K60 and I believe 4KHQ. But that’s with no internal recording. New life made a video on it. My results were basically the same. Been a minute tho. Just not practical for hybrid shooting. 

Overall, the R5 should absolutely not be overheating in any 1080 modes and 4K60 internally. I totally get 4K120, 4KHQ, and 8K.


----------



## dilbert (Jul 3, 2021)

Del Paso said:


> Youtubers will hate it, no more overheating .
> Yet, they are so inventive, they'll soon focus on another "issue"...



If there's active cooling then it means there is a fan and fans generate noise so...


----------



## Bahrd (Jul 3, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> [...]
> The first impression is that the card is the "smoking gun" but it wasn't alarmingly hot more than the rest, and I suspect it just reflects interior temp, not the heat source.
> View attachment 198738


In a FLUKE camera I use there is an option to select the type of a material (plastic, metal, water, skin, etc.) so that it's temperature is adjusted with respect to it's emissivity. 
Nevertheless, since the card looks "hot" it likely produces heat and emits it pretty well, I suppose.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I’m having the same kind of hesitation but with a Sony A1 instead of the C70… But then if I enter an ecosystem I’ll be kind of stuck in it, so maybe I’ll just buy an R5 and then replace it with a r5c… I’m just totally afraid of the overheating issue, as I intend to shoot a lot of long form video in 4KHQ, even with a ninja it seems to overheat


I haven't tested it as I don't have a Ninja, but this looks interesting... basically turn off the rear LCD and the EVF and you get unlimited record times in 4KHQ. I assume that long form means you don't need to use IBIS or AF tracking.
It would be good to hear anyone else to duplicate this.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

reef58 said:


> Shot a wedding last Saturday. Used the R5 and 1dx3. Started around 3 and finished around 9. High temps around 90 and out in the sun. Ended up with over 11,000 photos and not one overheating issue. Both cameras were left on the entire time. Both cameras were warm, but it was in the 90's or high 80's the entire time.


What did you shoot with the R5?
Stills? 8K? 4KHQ? Standard 4K?


----------



## foxfender (Jul 3, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I haven't tested it as I don't have a Ninja, but this looks interesting... basically turn off the rear LCD and the EVF and you get unlimited record times in 4KHQ. I assume that long form means you don't need to use IBIS or AF tracking.
> It would be good to hear anyone else to duplicate this.


I saw that video but why do you specifically refer to IBIS ans AF tracking? Would it change anything!?


----------



## Kit. (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I wonder why people like you feel compelled to judge others without knowing ?
> 
> if I go with the A1 I’ll be in known territory as I’ve been shooting alpha cameras like the last one for years. If I go with the R5, well, I’ve been shooting canon for years too, and i still have plenty of time to test it before the shoot. And in any case, ill show up with a proper functioning gear, and a backup camera.
> 
> I’m charging for this job as I have been for 25 years, and all is well thanks. Now if you don’t have a specific advice on my specific question please refrain from commenting because I just don’t give any value to your judgmental comments.


Why don't you create _your own_ thread for your specific question? Your posts obviously don't add anything useful for the topic of _this_ thread, but create a lot of attention (and prejudice toward you) that you seem not to desire.


----------



## Atlasman (Jul 3, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I haven't tested it as I don't have a Ninja, but this looks interesting... basically turn off the rear LCD and the EVF and you get unlimited record times in 4KHQ. I assume that long form means you don't need to use IBIS or AF tracking.
> It would be good to hear anyone else to duplicate this.


I’ve done similar tests and concluded that the biggest contributor to heat is the internal recording. On one test, I used a dummy battery and the Ninja V for monitoring 4K CROP 60fps and recording to the internal SD card (LCD and EVF OFF). I began shooting clips and watched the record time go from 20:00 down to 3:00.


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## landon (Jul 3, 2021)

OT. Speaking of the R5. I was in the shopping center (mall) today, and saw two young guys with a gimbal and an R5 in underslung-mode filming the other walking about. Was cool to see.


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## reef58 (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> What did you shoot with the R5?
> Stills? 8K? 4KHQ? Standard 4K?


Stills


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## sanj (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> Day long (8am -6pm) run and gun 4KHQ external Ninja recording. I know a proper cinema camera would better suit that need but I need to shoot quality stills as well :-(


At 4k I believe that you should be fine, but maybe rent a second R5 body for the day?


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## reef58 (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I do appreciate you trying to be of a help and especially this last message.
> Im not bouncing from nobodies advice, I’m actually collecting as much faithful user experience and testimonies as I can and I tend to value them much more than any youtuber’s with millions of views who are probably tied with brands and are trying to please the mass.
> 
> but then again, even him uses the R5 in its lower capacities and chose to personally shoot the A1 as he said himself.
> ...


Actually it is an easy choice. If you prefer Sony go with Sony. If you prefer Canon go with Canon. There is no magic bullet between them to be discovered. Both are going to produce similar results. The difference will be your ability to make use of the tool you are using. I have no interest in Sony for a host of reasons but none of them relate to the ability of the Sony to produce an image. 

Comparing gear and making purchase decisions can be fun, but if you have a gig coming up get what you want and get up to speed with the workings so it is second nature.


----------



## DBounce (Jul 3, 2021)

So it looks like Canon is borrowing a page from Sony’s playbook. Sony released the A7S3 then later released the actively cooled cinema focused FX3… basically an A7S3 with no EVF and a fan. Honestly, I’ve never had any overheating issues with the A7S3; so I think the FX3 is a bit redundant. However, as a video shooter, I frequently ran into overheating problems with the R5, so if the R5C addresses these problems, it just might be a worthy release. I hope Canon utilizes a 16:9 rear LCD screen, as this camera is a “C” line camera. Timecode is also important, and is a no brainier on a cinema line model. It would be great to have VND, but I’m not sure that will happen. Built in wireless mic support would be excellent.
My only real complaint with the R5 was the overheating. I don’t think Canon should have pushed the video features so heavily, knowing utilizing them would cause overheating issues for many users. I’m thinking the R5C is the camera that Canon should have released in the first place.


----------



## Fischer (Jul 3, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> 
> ...


This also happens with the R6 - however not to the point it becomes uncomfortable. But you can clearly feel the heat building up.


----------



## Fischer (Jul 3, 2021)

Painful with yet another announcement that is not about the high MPIX "R". Hopeful impuls when I saw the headline.


----------



## InchMetric (Jul 3, 2021)

As the poster of the heat images, I can say that I have kept the firmware updated. I may try a test with shooting only to the SD card to assess if it’s a faulty card, and may measure the surface temp best I can with a kitchen probe under a little pad, but plan to call Canon to assess if this is a warranty matter.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jul 3, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I’m doing the job and I’m not renting, I’ll either buy the R5 trusting in can handle 4KHQ output all day long to a ninja or ill buy an A1.


This was on Sony Rumors and I suppose it would work for R5 as well.








Emin Kuliyev created this funny solution to avoid 8k overheating with the Sony A1 - sonyalpharumors


Emin sent me those images with the following text: I’m Photographer from New York https://www.facebook.com/emin.kuliyev.54/ I just mount a Portable Handheld 14$ Fan by rubber pieces and keep the temperature on Sony A1 cold till my camera battery died (I shoot 8K) it was a little bit warm on the...




www.sonyalpharumors.com


----------



## st jack photography (Jul 3, 2021)

Dear Canon:

Please stop releasing all this amazing, drool-inducing stuff like R3s and f2 zooms and focus on the replacement for the 5DSr. Please give us a BSI 100mp+ camera, preferably with a detachable, up-flipping viewfinder like the fuji GFx. The VF doesn't HAVE to be removable, but please have expanded viewing options for in-studio and tethered. Let us studio pros give some feedback. We have tons of ideas. The r3 body form was a step in the right direction for sure. Variable low-pass too please?

*I LOVE my Canon gear, quite a fanboy, but honestly, the RP should be enough for video people for now. *Get out the landscape and product cameras; get out the flagship R1; Don't worry about these camera peasants that want a camera that does stills* and* video *and *makes a great quiche *and* burps the baby. I mean, my car cracks walnuts but that doesn't make it the tool for the job. When I want walnuts, I use a nutcracker, and IF I did video, I would use an entry-level cine camera.

This is such a minor complaint overall that I tried to make this complaint as self-aware as possible, in that Canon is doing great, IMO. It is almost as if Canon has channeled that 1987 energy they had when they introduced the EOS/EF system and changed the camera world forever.

Keep it up Canon, just don't forget the MP monster that keeps getting delayed.


----------



## SteveC (Jul 3, 2021)

Chig said:


> I lot of people question how big a market there is for such a specialised birding camera but Canon (and other companies) have spent a lot of money on developing _specific eye autofocus algorithms for birds_ so they probably think a significant number of people shoot birds.


Nah. The same algorithms work for reptiles, so its for people wanting to post cute internet pictures of their bearded dragon chasing blueberries or wearing a sweater.


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Jul 3, 2021)

I remember that the Canon once had a 1D C, which was 1D X with better video features. It was MUCH more expensive than the 1D X. So if the R5c also is much more expensive than the R5, I wonder why people should buy it instead of the C70 for example, which only cost $5499,


----------



## entoman (Jul 3, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Personally, I would not appreciate if the camera I am using were delayed or cancelled because of less than ideal performance in the modes I can easily live without.


You'd feel differently if it was a stills-related issue. Minor bugs are forgiveable - no one expects a complex electronic device to be entirely bug-free at launch, but serious bugs and design flaws should never make it to the marketplace, it's not only a pain for those of us who buy the gear, it also gives ammunition to the trolls.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 3, 2021)

entoman said:


> You'd feel differently if it was a stills-related issue.


If a 5D-series stills camera replacement I wanted to buy had a stills-related issue, I might feel differently, indeed.

But if any actively cooled video camera had a stills-related issue, I wouldn't care, and I definitely would not ask Canon to cancel or postpone its production.


----------



## kten (Jul 3, 2021)

st jack photography said:


> Dear Canon:
> 
> Please stop releasing all this amazing, drool-inducing stuff like R3s and f2 zooms and focus on the replacement for the 5DSr. Please give us a BSI 100mp+ camera, preferably with a detachable, up-flipping viewfinder like the fuji GFx. The VF doesn't HAVE to be removable, but please have expanded viewing options for in-studio and tethered. Let us studio pros give some feedback. We have tons of ideas. The r3 body form was a step in the right direction for sure. Variable low-pass too please?
> 
> ...


Part of it is expanding coverage across multiple niches with one line. I think we forget as consumers companies, especially conservative ones like Canon, understand the market better than us. One size fits all do a bit of everything jack of all trades master of none tend to be sound business rather than catering directly to folks who demand a hybrid budget do it all cam, thus it isn't just a small niche with the likes of wedding folks who need solid stills and some light video duty hybrid performance rocking R5's since it suits a lot of the market niches well.

I agree with the sentiment of wanting them to make the best master of one thing dedicated niche tool, but the camera peasant thing applies to all niches. You can counter the hybrid folks should just buy cine gear with studio/product people should stop being peasants too and just buy phaseone or hassy medium format gear.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 3, 2021)

Thoughts:

I thought the first R5C rumor said there would be internal ND's, but the subsequent one's made no further mention so it sounds like it's out. Would be awesome and I would take the extra girth for that and a fan.
More codecs. In my use I found that I like using IPB-Lite because of the data economy. I don't personally see much of a fall off in quality. So if anything I would actually be more interested in lower bitrate codecs. Also, if some way some how they can give me RAW lite in 4K, I would be overjoyed. Hopefully the original rumor that CLOG2 will be included is true as well. I wonder if people still have issues editing the 10-bit 4.2.2 footage, and if they do... would a more friendly 4.2.0 be welcome. Personally have no issues editing, but I do have a pretty powerful workstation laptop.
Full Size HDMI port. That should make a lot of the Atomos users happy.
Overheating. I did a lot of early testing and found that the overheating indicator warning is conservative. You still have several minutes of shooting before it actually overheats. The firmware that addressed the overheating, gave you the user power to cool down the camera externally. You can put a fan on it or if you trust the weather sealing - a slightly damp towel on it and you will recover a lot of recording time. People seeing overheating while shooting photos should not have a problem if they don't shoot video. It's only an indicator for the default C3 video setting that causes that indicator to come on. So if your C3 is on a mode that tends to overheat, it will base the timer on that mode. Includes 4KHQ, 4K120 and 8K. Just put it on a lower setting like 4K regular and below and you probably shouldn't get that OH indicator unless you have other factors causing excessive heat.
Can the R5 be used for all day run & gun 4KHQ? I would ask for more specifics on the shooting style. If you take shorter clips it's possible, but the length of the takes and breaks will make a difference. If you are doing long consecutive takes, then definitely not. In that scenario, I would stick to 4K Regular. That with a little post sharpening is a viable alternative that will give you the peace of mind of it not overheating. Also, think of the Overheating indicator as a guide to help you manage the heat on the camera. You can actively try to cool it, or if you have the control over how the shoot goes, you can schedule in the breaks. The more you use it, the more you get the feel of how to handle the Overheating. You understand what type of environments will bring the timer on sooner. That said, the R5c sounds like the answer to anyone who wants near unlimited shooting... just get rid of the 30 minute time limit.


----------



## MrToes (Jul 4, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


How about a R5 HM (HM for HIGH MP)?


----------



## sanj (Jul 4, 2021)

dilbert said:


> If there's active cooling then it means there is a fan and fans generate noise so...


If there is noise (I doubt it), it will be so low that external microphones will not pick it up. Besides, cameras like RED turn the fan off when the record button is pressed.


----------



## Busted Knuckles (Jul 4, 2021)

Sean C said:


> While I take your point, it assumes a zero sum game.
> If the programming is more efficient, if high cpu work is done on a dedicated asic, if the chips are lower voltage parts or if the chips are made with a smaller more advanced process less heat will be created for the same work done.
> If the heat has no direct path to the outside camera body, then the entire body will heat soak with local uncontrolled heating, which is what we see. If the heat is led to an outside surface (preferably with a heat pipe), heat will flow to that surface. The total heat output of the camera remains the same. That outside surface needs to be broad enough that the total heat energy is spread out, and also needs to be able to shed heat to the air (i.e. exposed black anodized aluminum not insulating grip material).
> If there were a heat pipe to a base plate with an exposed aluminum/mag base, video shooters could mount a heat sink in place of a battery grip and increase the thermal capacity of the camera a great deal. At design time, a camera metal body that's partly exposed at the baseplate and a less than $10 heat pipe would be the only changes. I suspect the new camera will be something similar, but with the grip heat sink as an integral part as that's the obvious way to go.


Thaat is my question m, where do you want the heat sink?


----------



## Busted Knuckles (Jul 4, 2021)

entoman said:


> Yes, being limited to 20fps in electronic shutter is just plain ridiculous, I can't see any logic behind it.
> 
> Why can't we have a choice between single shot, low (5ps), medium (10fps) and high (20fps)...
> 
> And while they're fixing issues, it would be nice if the eyepiece sensor had a user adjustable timer, to prevent the EVF shutting down 4 seconds after removing the camera from the eye.


Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?


----------



## Busted Knuckles (Jul 4, 2021)

Tallerbane said:


> The number 1 feature this would need for it to be an instant buy as a video centric body is internal NDs, 10 stops. Also high on the list is EVF removal/nerf, doing away with it entirely would be nice like the FX3.
> 
> Speaking of the FX3, XLR and SDI ports not in an awkward spot would cement the R5C as an amazing small form factor FF one man band workhorse, especially with the consistency and reliability a professional needs thanks to the fan preventing overheating.
> 
> ...


Love it. I ponder what production values are attainable for such a machine/price point compared to 5 years ago.


----------



## Sean C (Jul 4, 2021)

Busted Knuckles said:


> Thaat is my question m, where do you want the heat sink?


Within the camera? The entire base plate - as being bigger it'll shed more heat energy with a lower surface temp. An optional grip finned heat sink would have more surface area to transfer heat as well. The current setup is so (very) poor I'd expect more than a 200% improvement from a simple flat plate. It doesn't need to look like a gaming video card.

I'm in Texas, and also shoot in Florida. It needs to work continuously at least as a stills camera when it's almost 100 in the shade, but the camera is black and in the sun in my hand or around my neck. 

A heat pipe to heat sink setup would greatly reduce heat soak to other components within the camera, given the processor heat output that's been identified. On a 100 degree day I had a heat soak related failure of the DC power supply in one of my past Canon bodies. I'd hope for a improved long term reliability improvement, and probably 100% duty cycle for still camera features (viewfinder refresh etc). Well worth another $10-15 in materials for a camera in this class. (of course this'd matter more for video use)

It'll be interesting to see if future generations get the heat under control with more efficient processors, or add computational imaging tools that demand ever more processor power that always strains battery and heat limits.


----------



## Canfan (Jul 4, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> I don't do video with my R5, but am happy they are diverging because that may mean the regular models are still photo focused.


Yep, like that’s now old technology or something like that…there’s always going to be some critic


----------



## entoman (Jul 4, 2021)

Busted Knuckles said:


> Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?


Using mechanical shutter (or EFCS) decreases life of the camera - part of the value of an electronic shutter is that it is completely silent and has no moving parts to wear out. Ultimately mechanical shutters will cease to be made, and all shutters will be entirely electronic. Limiting them to a single burst speed of 20fps is senseless.


----------



## entoman (Jul 4, 2021)

Busted Knuckles said:


> Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?


I see you edited your reply regarding where you initially questioned the need for a longer EVF-active duration, and presumably now accept that it would be valuable to be able to extend the time which the EVF stays active after removing the eye from the camera...

Here is a typical scenerio: when shooting wildlife with a heavy handheld tele or zoom, people normally shoot a burst and then lower the camera for a while to reduce the strain on their arms. 10 seconds later (when the EVF has turned itself off) an animal or bird suddenly appears, so you rapidly raise the camera to your eye - and hey presto - you have to wait for the EVF to turn on again, and for the AF to activate. In many/most cases, the photo is missed because the animal/bird has moved. With DSLRs this is never a problem, because the viewfinder is permanently "on" and has no lag time.

Obviously the reason why Canon limits the EVF to 4 seconds (after removal from the eye) is to save battery power, but if they had produced a more powerful battery, the issue would not exist. Sony managed to produce a more powerful battery 2 years ago, so why can't Canon manage it?

... and if you are tempted to think I'm a Sony troll, think again and look at my gear list. I've been using Canon gear for years, and have no wish to switch brands, but I get the impression that they's rather force people to buy and carry 3 sets of batteries, than to supply a single one that had better performance...


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> if some way some how they can give me RAW lite in 4K,


4K RAW would be a tremendous crop from 45MP.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

sanj said:


> At 4k I believe that you should be fine, but maybe rent a second R5 body for the day?


Wouldn't an R6 be better for 4K 60 FPS?


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

Sean C said:


> Within the camera? The entire base plate - as being bigger it'll shed more heat energy with a lower surface temp.


There has to be a place for a heatsink to transfer energy or it is just buying time.
The better the weather sealing, the worse the heat transfer.
That is why the heatsinks in the S1H, C70, and FX3 are all exposed to the air.
Better yet, they are actively cooled just like we expect the C70 to be.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

reef58 said:


> If you prefer Sony go with Sony. If you prefer Canon go with Canon.


I fundamentally disagree with that statement.
I think gear can be compared against brands and I do not only own Canon gear.
I would think this place would be Canon biased but whenever anyone criticizes any Canon gear there are comments like "Go buy Sony" or "Go buy a Fuji."


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

DBounce said:


> So it looks like Canon is borrowing a page from Sony’s playbook.


I think Canon is more borrowing from the Panasonic playbook with the S1 and the S1H.
I do not expect R5c to just be an R5 with a larger heatsink and a fan.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

entoman said:


> You'd feel differently if it was a stills-related issue.


I definitely would not as long as I knew the limitations like I did before I bought my R5.
It did everything I expected it to do.
I am happier after the firmware updates but I am glad Canon released the camera when they did.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

Busted Knuckles said:


> Huh? Mechanical shutter fps? The incremental cost of the extra frams at 20 fos is effectively -0-. Why slow it down?What would be the purpose if having the evf on all the time or longer?


Speaking from experience, fewer pictures to wade through.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

Tallerbane said:


> The number 1 feature this would need for it to be an instant buy as a video centric body is internal NDs, 10 stops.


10 stops is a lot to ask for.
6 stops would be amazing.
Hopefully, with IBIS.


----------



## entoman (Jul 4, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I definitely would not as long as I knew the limitations like I did before I bought my R5.
> It did everything I expected it to do.
> I am happier after the firmware updates but I am glad Canon released the camera when they did.


Same for me, as I shoot stills exclusively. The R5 isn't perfect but it performs much as I hoped and expected. But if I was a video shooter hoping to shoot 8K in a warm climate, I wouldn't be so happy.


----------



## reef58 (Jul 4, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I fundamentally disagree with that statement.
> I think gear can be compared against brands and I do not only own Canon gear.
> I would think this place would be Canon biased but whenever anyone criticizes any Canon gear there are comments like "Go buy Sony" or "Go buy a Fuji."


We can agree to disagree? I don't have a strong opinion, but if you are a good photographer / videographer either will work. You will probably do better with something you are familiar with versus something you perceive to be marginally better.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 4, 2021)

entoman said:


> Same for me, as I shoot stills exclusively. The R5 isn't perfect but it performs much as I hoped and expected. But if I was a video shooter hoping to shoot 8K in a warm climate, I wouldn't be so happy.


So, which competitor exactly shoots 8K better for the same amount of money?

Because, you know, R5 was already close enough to the maximum I would pay for a 5D-series replacement body.


----------



## entoman (Jul 4, 2021)

st jack photography said:


> Dear Canon:
> 
> Please stop releasing all this amazing, drool-inducing stuff like R3s and f2 zooms and focus on the replacement for the 5DSr. Please give us a BSI 100mp+ camera, preferably with a detachable, up-flipping viewfinder like the fuji GFx. The VF doesn't HAVE to be removable, but please have expanded viewing options for in-studio and tethered. Let us studio pros give some feedback. We have tons of ideas. The r3 body form was a step in the right direction for sure. Variable low-pass too please?



I owned a 5DS before upgrading to an R5, and I found the noise levels of the 5DS above ISO 800 to be intolerable. I'd imagine that noise levels on a 100MP FF sensor, even 5 years later, would still be objectionable (to me) above ISO 800. So, much as I love my Canon gear, if I wanted/needed 100MP, I'd probably get a Fujifilm GFX100.

Agree regarding the EVF - an up-flipping version would be very welcome, and I wish my R5 had one. I'd also prefer a tilting monitor in preference to the video-centric vari-angle monitors that Canon normally fit.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 4, 2021)

reef58 said:


> We can agree to disagree? I don't have a strong opinion, but if you are a good photographer / videographer either will work. You will probably do better with something you are familiar with versus something you perceive to be marginally better.


It’s not that simple. Its not difficult to become familiar with a camera, it just takes a couple of days and some practice. Of course you’ll do a good job with any camera, but it also will be according to its possibilities. For example if you are a hybrid shooter, you’ll sure do beautiful 8K video with the A1 even if it’s not Raw and only 4:2:0. With the R5, you’ll do a good job too but without a recorder you’ll be severely restricted by the timer.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jul 4, 2021)

foxfender said:


> For example if you are a hybrid shooter, you’ll sure do beautiful 8K video with the A1 even if it’s not Raw and only 4:2:0. With the R5, you’ll do a good job too but without a recorder you’ll be severely restricted by the timer.


Personally, If I did not already have an R5 then I would buy a Kolari Vision modded R5.
I would also buy the mod if I had not bought a 3-year warranty.
If they still offer the mod 3 years from now I will consider that unless the R5c is much cheaper than I think it is going to be.
I considered the A1 but it is not for me.
UHD 4:2:0 is not usable for me.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 4, 2021)

foxfender said:


> I saw that video but why do you specifically refer to IBIS ans AF tracking? Would it change anything!?


I noticed that the camera was fixed. DPReview always uses a baby rocking machine to simulate AF tracking. If fixed on a tripod with long form video, you could reduce the heat generation by manual focus and turn off IBIS/OIS as it would be another source of heat.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 4, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> More codecs. In my use I found that I like using IPB-Lite because of the data economy. I don't personally see much of a fall off in quality. So if anything I would actually be more interested in lower bitrate codecs. Also, if some way some how they can give me RAW lite in 4K, I would be overjoyed. Hopefully the original rumor that CLOG2 will be included is true as well. I wonder if people still have issues editing the 10-bit 4.2.2 footage, and if they do... would a more friendly 4.2.0 be welcome. Personally have no issues editing, but I do have a pretty powerful workstation laptop.


4K Raw would be a substantial crop. Oversampled should be better than raw especially with clogx. What would be interesting is if Canon would apply compression to the raw bitrate ie not IPB-light.


----------



## foxfender (Jul 4, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I considered the A1 but it is not for me.
> UHD 4:2:0 is not usable for me.



In what regards is 4:2:0 UHD not for you? Just curious


----------



## reef58 (Jul 5, 2021)

foxfender said:


> It’s not that simple. Its not difficult to become familiar with a camera, it just takes a couple of days and some practice. Of course you’ll do a good job with any camera, but it also will be according to its possibilities. For example if you are a hybrid shooter, you’ll sure do beautiful 8K video with the A1 even if it’s not Raw and only 4:2:0. With the R5, you’ll do a good job too but without a recorder you’ll be severely restricted by the timer.


With 8k video I submit you will be limited by storage space. Ask me how I know. I also submit I feel confident I can record whatever 8k video project I wish just fine with either the A1 or the R5. I prefer the R5 for a variety of reasons but #1 is I know I can get the job done with the R5 and I have no desire to sell all of my stuff to buy something that really isn't better. I know it is fun to try and objectively declare camera a is better than camera b with subjective opinions, but to me I am not buying it.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 5, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> 4K Raw would be a substantial crop. Oversampled should be better than raw especially with clogx. What would be interesting is if Canon would apply compression to the raw bitrate ie not IPB-light.


I guess, my wish is for a oversampled image that has the RAW workflow so there's no crop. I know it's not really RAW in the purest sense since it would require in camera processing to downsample the 8K to 4K. But working with RAW files is just enjoyable for me. 8K Raw even the lite RAW is so gorgeous when rendered, but man the files are huge. So maybe my wish is just for a more economical resolution in raw without crop.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 5, 2021)

foxfender said:


> In what regards is 4:2:0 UHD not for you? Just curious


At least in the R5, it's a difference of one being LOG (4.2.2 10-bit) and not log (4.2.0 8-bit) so more blown highlights and crushed shadows with more noise. So if that's important to someone, then yeah it could be a deal breaker.


----------



## maulanawale (Jul 5, 2021)

entoman said:


> Yes, being limited to 20fps in electronic shutter is just plain ridiculous, I can't see any logic behind it.
> 
> Why can't we have a choice between single shot, low (5ps), medium (10fps) and high (20fps)...
> 
> And while they're fixing issues, it would be nice if the eyepiece sensor had a user adjustable timer, to prevent the EVF shutting down 4 seconds after removing the camera from the eye.


+1

Granted the camera is no match for the R5 but my Olympus EM1X gives you the option of choosing between 8,9,10,15 and 18FPS in silent mode with AF and 15,20,30 and 60FPS with the AF locked on the first shot.
Surely Canon can implement different FR without much effort if they want to


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## foxfender (Jul 5, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> At least in the R5, it's a difference of one being LOG (4.2.2 10-bit) and not log (4.2.0 8-bit) so more blown highlights and crushed shadows with more noise. So if that's important to someone, then yeah it could be a deal breaker.


What are you saying? Nonsense, Sony A1 offers 10 bit 8K 4:2:0 Log (slog3).


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 5, 2021)

foxfender said:


> What are you saying? Nonsense, Sony A1 offers 10 bit 8K 4:2:0 Log (slog3).


I was only speaking for the R5. My bad. I have no interest in the Sony so I had no business chiming in.


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## Kit. (Jul 5, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> 4K Raw would be a substantial crop. Oversampled should be better than raw especially with clogx. What would be interesting is if Canon would apply compression to the raw bitrate ie not IPB-light.


Just curious: what's wrong with ALL-I?


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 5, 2021)

foxfender said:


> In what regards is 4:2:0 UHD not for you? Just curious


4:2:0 is a delivery codec.
It is not meant for editing.
RAW is 4:4:4.
It is also better to downscale to UHD when you need to than to upscale to DCI when you need to.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 5, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> 4K Raw would be a substantial crop. Oversampled should be better than raw especially with clogx. What would be interesting is if Canon would apply compression to the raw bitrate ie not IPB-light.


I do not really see the advantage of cropped 4k RAW on an actively cooled camera like the R5c.
However, I do want Canon to put it in the R5 to have RAW video without overheating.


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## Kit. (Jul 5, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> 4:2:0 is a delivery codec.
> It is not meant for editing.
> RAW is 4:4:4.


Technically, RAW (with Bayer/RGGB color filter pattern) is more than 4:2:0 (due to higher sampling frequency of greens) but less than 4:2:2.



EOS 4 Life said:


> It is also better to downscale to UHD when you need to than to upscale to DCI when you need to.


Or even to crop.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 5, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> I guess, my wish is for a oversampled image that has the RAW workflow so there's no crop. I know it's not really RAW in the purest sense since it would require in camera processing to downsample the 8K to 4K. But working with RAW files is just enjoyable for me. 8K Raw even the lite RAW is so gorgeous when rendered, but man the files are huge. So maybe my wish is just for a more economical resolution in raw without crop.


Canon does not do that type of thing.
However, Sigma FP RAW and Nikon external ProRes RAW and external BRAW either bin, downsample, or line-skip to get 4k "RAW".
It would make more sense to me to have external ProRes 4:4:4 than RAW in name only but what do I know?


----------



## sanj (Jul 5, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> I guess, my wish is for a oversampled image that has the RAW workflow so there's no crop. I know it's not really RAW in the purest sense since it would require in camera processing to downsample the 8K to 4K. But working with RAW files is just enjoyable for me. 8K Raw even the lite RAW is so gorgeous when rendered, but man the files are huge. So maybe my wish is just for a more economical resolution in raw without crop.


Nothing comes for free, if you like the RAW files, just as I do, the size is something to deal with!


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## foxfender (Jul 5, 2021)

sanj said:


> Nothing comes for free, if you like the RAW files, just as I do, the size is something to deal with!


Otherwise there is ProRes RAW through a Ninja as well ;-)


----------



## RayValdez360 (Jul 5, 2021)

The c70 is better in a lot of ways but i guess it is cool that we might finally get a small cinema camera that will work great on small gimbals.


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## entoman (Jul 5, 2021)

Kit. said:


> So, which competitor exactly shoots 8K better for the same amount of money?
> 
> Because, you know, R5 was already close enough to the maximum I would pay for a 5D-series replacement body.


It's not about someone else being able to do it better, it's about whether or not a piece of equipment performs correctly and reliably. My view is that the camera was released too quickly and not enough consideration was given to heat management under 8K usage. It doesn't bother me personally, as I only shoot stills, but I can understand why videographers are disappointed. I'm generally very pleased with the R5 - the only gripes I have regarding stills usage relate to the poor battery life and the EVF lag which I've fully explained in other posts.

Regarding price - yes the R5 was close to the maximum I was prepared to pay (I saved myself $1000 by importing from Hong Kong), and of course there are limitations on what a manufacturer can offer for a particular price limit. Personally I would rather that 8K had been omitted entirely, rather than having an inefficient implementation that just gives ammunition to trolls. Without 8K, the price would have been lower, and there would have been far fewer complaints.


----------



## entoman (Jul 5, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Speaking from experience, fewer pictures to wade through.


I'd just like to have the *choice*. There are some occasions e.g. birds in flight, when 20fps is an advantage, but there are also plenty of occasions when I'd like to shoot at 10fps or 5fps with silent shutter.

For my own usage, I'd be quite content of there was no mechanical shutter (or EFCS).

But I'd like to be able to choose between single shot, 5fps, 10fps and 20fps, all with electronic shutter.

It would be so simple to offer this as a firmware update...


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> I'd also prefer a tilting monitor in preference to the video-centric vari-angle monitors that Canon normally fit.


I agree that street shooters would prefer a tilting rear lcd but you can still use the cari-angle one for this purpose if a little unwieldy. That said, a tilt LCD is useless when shooting in portrait mode eg for wide angle astrolandscapes. Being able to view the screen from that angle is a blessing!


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 6, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Just curious: what's wrong with ALL-I?


Nothing is wrong with ALL-I. The feedback I have seen is that 8k raw is great but the file sizes are too great to handle easily. IPB-light is the only option that Canon has provided for low bit rate. Would be interesting if Canon could also provide a compressed 8k raw bit rate. Lossless compression ideally.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 6, 2021)

BakaBokeh said:


> I guess, my wish is for a oversampled image that has the RAW workflow so there's no crop. I know it's not really RAW in the purest sense since it would require in camera processing to downsample the 8K to 4K. But working with RAW files is just enjoyable for me. 8K Raw even the lite RAW is so gorgeous when rendered, but man the files are huge. So maybe my wish is just for a more economical resolution in raw without crop.


we already have 4KHQ (oversampled 8k-> 4k) and there are methods to have no (or virtually unlimited) recording times externally


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> I'm generally very pleased with the R5 - the only gripes I have regarding stills usage relate to the poor battery life and the EVF lag which I've fully explained in other posts.


Do you use a grip? Does the high refresh rate on the EVF still not meet your requirements? The latter certainly impacts battery life but a grip/spare batteries seems to be a simple solution. I miss the battery life on my 5Div until I use full sensor eye-AF 



entoman said:


> Personally I would rather that 8K had been omitted entirely, rather than having an inefficient implementation that just gives ammunition to trolls. Without 8K, the price would have been lower, and there would have been far fewer complaints.


I don't know that the price would have been lower without 8k. 8K fits the resolution perfectly (and oversampled 4k) so choosing 45mp wasn't a coincidence. The whole camera is designed around it (mp/CFe B/bus/DigicX etc). Canon just expected that users would love the option of 8k raw even with restricted time limits. Frankly the commentators couldn't believe that Canon could do 8k recording at all before release instead of 8k timelapse and then suddenly demanded unlimited recording times rather than understanding what a bargain it was compared to any other 8k camera.

Magic Lantern really showed Canon what could be possible even with temperature limitations/battery life. Canon let their engineers off the leash but it did bite them somewhat. I am glad that we have the features we have rather than more complaints about cr1pple hamm3r again

I am a little confused about the A1's resolution.... needing oversampling for its 8k with no raw option even with a crop. Reviewers loved the A1's lack of overheating in a smaller package albeit with at a substantial price increase though. Can't wait to see Roger's teardown and internal temperature measurements. The weird part if that the max CFe A card size is 160GB so 8k recording is still pretty limited in recording times. 

The internet is very strange.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> For my own usage, I'd be quite content of there was no mechanical shutter (or EFCS).


Flash sync speed, rolling shutter and banding under certain light seem to be the only requirements for a mechanical shutter that I can see. If the R1 has a global shutter then it will be interesting if Canon removes the mechanical shutter. Mechanical longevity and flash sync/rolling shutter should addressed but I am not sure about banding issues


----------



## wanderer23 (Jul 6, 2021)

Seems like internal ND was dropped from the potential specs  whatever the r5c costs I’d happily pay an extra 1000-1500 usd for internal ND. Will likely skip if it’s not included and wait for the c90 then.


----------



## wanderer23 (Jul 6, 2021)

Hope anamorphic modes get included! They’re convenient to have


----------



## landon (Jul 6, 2021)

wanderer23 said:


> Seems like internal ND was dropped from the potential specs  whatever the r5c costs I’d happily pay an extra 1000-1500 usd for internal ND. Will likely skip if it’s not included and wait for the c90 then.


I think it will have NDs. Hoping it to be BM6Kpro with Canon's ergonomics, BP batteries.


----------



## Tirmite (Jul 6, 2021)

The Canon R5c will only be available for purchase in Alaska, Antartica, and the Arctic Circle regions. Wavers can be attained for those who specialize in ice cave photography and the meatpacking industry. It's TRUE. I heard it on a rumors site!


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## Mr Majestyk (Jul 6, 2021)

Just a running update of the R5 with copper heatsinks on the CPU's would be nice and a heatpipe to the external chassis. I'd buy the R5c for sure if the premium was only $100, but it will be more like $500.


----------



## dboris (Jul 6, 2021)

I feel that the R5C buyers will get turned down by the slow R5 readout speeds after seeing the R3's fast readout.
Ultimately the C90 will come out with fast readout, XLR, NDs, codecs, but will surely lack IBIS and R3's AF like the C70 does compared the the R5.
At the end it's really a world of compromises but all in all, what a wonderful era we live in, where we have so many options and tools for the same job.
I myself look towards the R3 for video ONLY because it's available soon and will probably be a good value for what I want to do with it.
On the long term the C90 will be the video killer, will probably also have live streaming capabilities.
I hope the C90/R5C/R3 will be able to send video feed though ethernet.. I think it's already the case for the 1DX but it's really not meant to be used for streaming.
ZCam E2 was streaming through NDI protocol and honestly it's a breeze since you don't need to have a video input, any computer with ethernet can then receive the stream.
Also so excited by that new shoe mount ! Probably the R5C will have it too with XLR inputs if it doesn't comes with the R3


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jul 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Would be interesting if Canon could also provide a compressed 8k raw bit rate. Lossless compression ideally.


Canon RAW Light has already been added.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> I'd just like to have the *choice*. There are some occasions e.g. birds in flight, when 20fps is an advantage, but there are also plenty of occasions when I'd like to shoot at 10fps or 5fps with silent shutter.
> 
> For my own usage, I'd be quite content of there was no mechanical shutter (or EFCS).
> 
> ...


Did you submit a request for this ability to Canon? The more requests they get for the feature, the greater the likelihood that it will be prioritized.


----------



## sanj (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> It's not about someone else being able to do it better, it's about whether or not a piece of equipment performs correctly and reliably. My view is that the camera was released too quickly and not enough consideration was given to heat management under 8K usage. It doesn't bother me personally, as I only shoot stills, but I can understand why videographers are disappointed. I'm generally very pleased with the R5 - the only gripes I have regarding stills usage relate to the poor battery life and the EVF lag which I've fully explained in other posts.
> 
> Regarding price - yes the R5 was close to the maximum I was prepared to pay (I saved myself $1000 by importing from Hong Kong), and of course there are limitations on what a manufacturer can offer for a particular price limit. Personally I would rather that 8K had been omitted entirely, rather than having an inefficient implementation that just gives ammunition to trolls. Without 8K, the price would have been lower, and there would have been far fewer complaints.


Not really. I have filmed four music videos and two commercials on R5 so far. I was careful and there were ZERO overheating issues.


----------



## sanj (Jul 6, 2021)

sanj said:


> Not really. I have filmed four music videos and two commercials on R5 so far. I was careful and there were ZERO overheating issues.


On 8K RAW. (Best quality settings)


----------



## Kit. (Jul 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Nothing is wrong with ALL-I. The feedback I have seen is that 8k raw is great but the file sizes are too great to handle easily. IPB-light is the only option that Canon has provided for low bit rate. Would be interesting if Canon could also provide a compressed 8k raw bit rate. Lossless compression ideally.


Still don't understand. My R5 shows RAW, RAW-light, ALL-I, IPB, and IPB-light as a choice of compression for 8k modes.


----------



## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

sanj said:


> Not really. I have filmed four music videos and two commercials on R5 so far. I was careful and there were ZERO overheating issues.


That's good to hear. What ambient temperature were you filming at, and how long were the clips and intervals between them?


----------



## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Did you submit a request for this ability to Canon? The more requests they get for the feature, the greater the likelihood that it will be prioritized.


Yes. I have asked Canon to make this a firmware update. I've also asked them to produce a more powerful battery and to fix the issue where the EVF shuts down 4 seconds after removing my eye from the camera. Hopefully others will send their own feedback directly to Canon.


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Do you use a grip? Does the high refresh rate on the EVF still not meet your requirements? The latter certainly impacts battery life but a grip/spare batteries seems to be a simple solution. I miss the battery life on my 5Div until I use full sensor eye-AF
> 
> 
> I don't know that the price would have been lower without 8k. 8K fits the resolution perfectly (and oversampled 4k) so choosing 45mp wasn't a coincidence. The whole camera is designed around it (mp/CFe B/bus/DigicX etc). Canon just expected that users would love the option of 8k raw even with restricted time limits. Frankly the commentators couldn't believe that Canon could do 8k recording at all before release instead of 8k timelapse and then suddenly demanded unlimited recording times rather than understanding what a bargain it was compared to any other 8k camera.
> ...


No, I don't normally use a grip because I often shoot with the camera at ground level and want the lens to be as low as possible for these situations. Also I don't want the extra weight and bulk. For certain situations e,g, shooting on safari from a vehicle, I will be getting a grip. But it would be much better (for me) if Canon simply produced a more powerful battery - I rarely get through a day's shooting on a single battery, and sometimes I have to swap batteries twice a day.

It can't cost Canon much to develop or buy-in more powerful batteries. I have no idea whether Sony manufacture their own batteries or buy them in. Either way, it shouldn't add more than $100 to the cost of a camera. I hate to plug Sony again, as I don't like the design or ergos of their cameras, but it's notable that Sony fit their more powerful batteries to a7Riv etc, which is a lot cheaper than the R5.

I've never used Magic Lantern and I'm wary of doing so, as I don't want to risk bricking my camera. I know many people use it without problems, but I suspect that *part* of the reason why Canon "cripple" cameras is to ensure maximum reliability and durability.

I think Canon seriously misjudged how users (and trolls) would react to the restricted time limit with 8K. For my purposes, if I ever use 8K it would be purely to extract stills, but I currently have no need for more than 20fps so I just shoot stills bursts and get the full 45MP.


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Flash sync speed, rolling shutter and banding under certain light seem to be the only requirements for a mechanical shutter that I can see. If the R1 has a global shutter then it will be interesting if Canon removes the mechanical shutter. Mechanical longevity and flash sync/rolling shutter should addressed but I am not sure about banding issues


Flash speed and rolling shutter can both be improved by having faster readout, with an electronic shutter. I'll be surprised if Canon fit a global shutter to the R1 - I think that's at least another 5 years away, and most likely Sony will get there first.

I've got nothing against retaining mechanical shutter for specific use cases, I just want to make electronic shutter more *usable* by enabling 5fps and 10fps, as well as 20fps. I'd probably use electronic shutter for 98% of my shooting, if 5fps and 10fps were possible, and it would greatly increase the reliability and longevity of the camera.

Maybe it's just the usual Canon thing - i.e. "let's leave that out and put it in the next model, just offer users *enough* to make them buy, and kep them hooked, waiting for the next model"


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I agree that street shooters would prefer a tilting rear lcd but you can still use the cari-angle one for this purpose if a little unwieldy. That said, a tilt LCD is useless when shooting in portrait mode eg for wide angle astrolandscapes. Being able to view the screen from that angle is a blessing!


I shoot mainly wildlife and macro, and I find the vari-angle screen quite awkward. A tilting screen is much better for me, because it's on-axis with the lens and sensor, making it much easier to pan or follow action. I love the screen on the Panasonic S1H, which tilts horizontally *and* vertically and remains on-axis, and can also swing out for video. I think the Fujifilm XT2 has a similar concept. I'd really love to see Canon, Nikon and Sony adopt the same design, but I guess that their pride will get in the way.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> fix the issue where the EVF shuts down 4 seconds after removing my eye from the camera.


That is by design.
I am not sure why you would want the EVF still on when your eye is not detected but I prefer that it works the way that it does.
If enough people request it then Canon would provide such an option but the battery life would get even worse.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> It can't cost Canon much to develop or buy-in more powerful batteries.


I am sure that is what you believe but I do not think we can reliably know whether that is true or not.


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## sanj (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> That's good to hear. What ambient temperature were you filming at, and how long were the clips and intervals between them?


HOT! Rajasthan, India in summers!! Also studios - but they were airconditioned. The longest clip was say 4 mins. I would turn off the camera between takes and we had at least a ten min gap between takes. Regular filming process. One hot afternoon I saw the heat warning and I quickly finished the shot and shut the camera. It was my production, my equipment, me directing and filming so I could adjust. If the filming was for someone else, I would not be able to turn off camera so often and believe overheating would certainly be an issue. I will say this: It is best to have two R5 bodies onset if a documentary-style shoot is on. Commercials/Videos provide enough cooldown time. Yet, even then two bodies would be better.


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 6, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> The C70 demonstrates why the original R5 didn't include a fan. A fan makes the camera "fat".


no a fan compromises weather sealing. The c70 is fat because it has nd filters and more ports like xlr and stuff. The fx3 has a fan and it is still small but is missing the stuff I mentioned.


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 6, 2021)

Finn said:


> R3 still looking like a better body potentially.
> Unless R5C will FF C70 with DGO.


The sensor is way different so I cant see that. All it has to do is have the downsampled 4K and no overheating and it will be a great small camera for video. The 4K HQ on the R5 is supposed to be like the best 4K around then add Clog 2, now we are talking. If canon doesnt try to protect clog 2....


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## InchMetric (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> I'd just like to have the *choice*. There are some occasions e.g. birds in flight, when 20fps is an advantage, but there are also plenty of occasions when I'd like to shoot at 10fps or 5fps with silent shutter.
> 
> For my own usage, I'd be quite content of there was no mechanical shutter (or EFCS).
> 
> ...


I would welcome a haptic (tactile) feedback option for silent shutter, so I could feel or hear the frame rate.

And I can't even see why it should be limited to 5 or 10 or 20 FPS. Just pick a rate and let the camera do the math.


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## InchMetric (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> Maybe it's just the usual Canon thing - i.e. "let's leave that out and put it in the next model, just offer users *enough* to make them buy, and kep them hooked, waiting for the next model"


"...and we can always add it in firmware if the competition makes us look bad."


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## Atlasman (Jul 6, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> The sensor is way different so I cant see that. All it has to do is have the downsampled 4K and no overheating and it will be a great small camera for video. The 4K HQ on the R5 is supposed to be like the best 4K around then add Clog 2, now we are talking. If canon doesnt try to protect clog 2....


I agree that the magic of the R5 is the oversampled 4K HQ. I would settle for just adding active cooling and unlimited record time.

But if Canon will be putting the guts of the R5 into a new “skin”, then I would want and willing to pay for: 
• active cooling
• controls that are oriented to movie mode
• built-in VND filters
• optional swivel EVF
• mounting points like the Sony FX3
• keep it small as possible


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## Atlasman (Jul 6, 2021)

One more thing... USB-C recording.


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## SteveC (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> Yes. I have asked Canon to make this a firmware update. I've also asked them to produce a more powerful battery and to fix the issue where the EVF shuts down 4 seconds after removing my eye from the camera. Hopefully others will send their own feedback directly to Canon.


Just brainstorming here but on the latter issue, a button one could press to force the EVF to turn on might help (for all I know there's a way to set one already). You could press the button as you raise the camera to your eye (or even periodically if it looks like something interesting _might_ be about to happen), thus getting the EVF turned on by the time the camera is at your eye, and that would let the EVF shut off at some times to save some battery juice.

I do agree about electronic shutter. Why the hell NOT give people the option for single shot? Not only less stuff to wade through, but you don't fill cards as rapidly. (For plebeians like me with a mere 128GB card (which is still 3000 times the size of my first hard drive) and who doesn't necessarily want to suck down an eighth of a terabyte in one shoot, that could become an issue.)


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## frjmacias (Jul 6, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Quite frankly, in my experience, gathering as much information from the internet is only going to confuse you more and is perhaps the worst way to choose a product. There is only one way to answer your questions and that is to try it yourself. Too many folks on the internet have their own agendas at the least, and are incompetent or deceitful at the worst. Not sure where you are located or your financial situation, but renting the cameras you are looking for is one solution, purchasing them from a reputable camera store that accepts returns is another. You can study and contemplate all day long, but until you use the camera in exactly the situations you intend to use them, you won't have an answer.


This is unrelated to your comment, but I saw your username and wanted to point out how dope it is. I am a huge Czarface and DOOM fan.


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Just brainstorming here but on the latter issue, a button one could press to force the EVF to turn on might help (for all I know there's a way to set one already). You could press the button as you raise the camera to your eye (or even periodically if it looks like something interesting _might_ be about to happen), thus getting the EVF turned on by the time the camera is at your eye, and that would let the EVF shut off at some times to save some battery juice.
> 
> I do agree about electronic shutter. Why the hell NOT give people the option for single shot? Not only less stuff to wade through, but you don't fill cards as rapidly. (For plebeians like me with a mere 128GB card (which is still 3000 times the size of my first hard drive) and who doesn't necessarily want to suck down an eighth of a terabyte in one shoot, that could become an issue.)


Hi Steve, Yes there are workarounds - you can keep tapping a button every 4 seconds to keep the EVF active, or you can hold the camera close to your chest to cover the eyepiece sensor, or you can cover the eyepiece sensor with black tape. None of these are much of a substitute for having a user-selectable EVF duration though. And if you use the button-tapping method, you have to make sure that the button isn't mapped for AF or any other function that would activate at an inappropriate time.


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> I would welcome a haptic (tactile) feedback option for silent shutter, so I could feel or hear the frame rate.
> 
> And I can't even see why it should be limited to 5 or 10 or 20 FPS. Just pick a rate and let the camera do the math.


I thought electronic shutter would give problems due to lack of feedback, but as the aperture closes down it makes a very quiet "whisper" which I find is just loud enough to rely on for feedback. Of course, it would also be nice if the user could assign a beep (volume adjustable) to shutter activation Easy in firmware to allow the user to choose between AF and shutter activation to hear the beep).

Regarding the fps, this would of course be limited by the shutter speed in use (clearly you can't shoot 10fps if the shutter speed is 1/2 second ), so it would have to be defined as low/medium/high. But I'd be happy with being able to choose between 5/10/20 at faster shutter speeds.


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

sanj said:


> HOT! Rajasthan, India in summers!! Also studios - but they were airconditioned. The longest clip was say 4 mins. I would turn off the camera between takes and we had at least a ten min gap between takes. Regular filming process. One hot afternoon I saw the heat warning and I quickly finished the shot and shut the camera. It was my production, my equipment, me directing and filming so I could adjust. If the filming was for someone else, I would not be able to turn off camera so often and believe overheating would certainly be an issue. I will say this: It is best to have two R5 bodies onset if a documentary-style shoot is on. Commercials/Videos provide enough cooldown time. Yet, even then two bodies would be better.


I agree that it's always wise to have 2 bodies for any serious photography, having had 6D suffer humidity-related temporary shut-downs on more than one occasion. 4 minutes sounds about right for a long clip on a pro shoot, unless of course it involves interviews or something else that continues for a longer period. I guess that is what concerns the videographers that complain about the heat issue.


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I am sure that is what you believe but I do not think we can reliably know whether that is true or not.


I'm basing my belief on the fact that Sony put more powerful batteries in the a7Riv (and a7iii ?) which are both considerably cheaper cameras than the R5. If it's affordable for Sony, it should be affordable for Canon.


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## reef58 (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> It's not about someone else being able to do it better, it's about whether or not a piece of equipment performs correctly and reliably. My view is that the camera was released too quickly and not enough consideration was given to heat management under 8K usage. It doesn't bother me personally, as I only shoot stills, but I can understand why videographers are disappointed. I'm generally very pleased with the R5 - the only gripes I have regarding stills usage relate to the poor battery life and the EVF lag which I've fully explained in other posts.
> 
> Regarding price - yes the R5 was close to the maximum I was prepared to pay (I saved myself $1000 by importing from Hong Kong), and of course there are limitations on what a manufacturer can offer for a particular price limit. *Personally I would rather that 8K had been omitted entirely,* rather than having an inefficient implementation that just gives ammunition to trolls. Without 8K, the price would have been lower, and there would have been far fewer complaints.


Yes but as someone who shoots 8K I am glad to have it. I could not care less about what some internet guru has to say. I usually draw my own conclusions and don't take it personally.


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> That is by design.
> I am not sure why you would want the EVF still on when your eye is not detected but I prefer that it works the way that it does.
> If enough people request it then Canon would provide such an option but the battery life would get even worse.


As I explained in a previous post, imagine you are a wildlife, bird or sports photographer, hand-holding a 100-400mm or a 300mm F2.8. You take a few shots and then your arms get tired, or your eyes need a short rest, or maybe you just want to survey the surroundings to see what is going on. During this period the EVF shuts down. Then a subject suddenly presents itself, you quickly raise the camera to your eye, and you then have a lag while the EVF lights up and the AF chimes in. During that lag, the subject will have moved, and may possibly have even completely gone!

It's not just me, several pro wildlife photographers who have used the R5 have complained about this (there are cumbersome workarounds that I've described in another post), and have decided to stick with their DSLRs (which of course have zero viewfinder lag). It's a real issue, and Canon need to jump on it.


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## InchMetric (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> Of course, it would also be nice if the user could assign a beep (volume adjustable) to shutter activation Easy in firmware to allow the user to choose between AF and shutter activation to hear the beep).


I'd envision something like a "tick" adjustable in volume to be like the quietest mechanical shutter imaginable. Haptic would be fine if gentle enough not to blur the image, or activated between shots, or with a safety that stopped it in critical conditions like long shutter speeds or high magnification.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> It's a real issue, and Canon need to jump on it.


If enough people request it then Canon will do it.
We can't expect Canon to read our minds.
I have an R5 and I love it but I would still rather Canon make a 5D Mark V DSLR.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> I'm basing my belief on the fact that Sony put more powerful batteries in the a7Riv (and a7iii ?) which are both considerably cheaper cameras than the R5. If it's affordable for Sony, it should be affordable for Canon.


There are patents involved that might make it impossible for Canon to replicate Sony.
IMHO Canon should not have based the R5 battery off the 5D battery since DSLRs require so much less power.
One thing that could really get me into an R5c would be if Canon switched to a BP battery.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 6, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> The 4K HQ on the R5 is supposed to be like the best 4K around then add Clog 2, now we are talking. If canon doesnt try to protect clog 2...


CLOG 2 would be pointless if the video has less than 14 stops of dynamic range


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## entoman (Jul 6, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> If enough people request it then Canon will do it.
> We can't expect Canon to read our minds.
> I have an R5 and I love it but I would still rather Canon make a 5D Mark V DSLR.


We think alike. A "5DMkV" with the R5 or R3 sensor and the AF from the 1Dxiii would be perfect.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jul 6, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> • optional swivel EVF


You can always buy an optional swivel EVF.
I have no expectations of Canon making one.


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## Atlasman (Jul 6, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> You can always buy an optional swivel EVF.
> I have no expectations of Canon making one.


I have one now, but it requires separate power and is huge.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 6, 2021)

entoman said:


> I've got nothing against retaining mechanical shutter for specific use cases, I just want to make electronic shutter more *usable* by enabling 5fps and 10fps, as well as 20fps. I'd probably use electronic shutter for 98% of my shooting, if 5fps and 10fps were possible, and it would greatly increase the reliability and longevity of the camera.
> 
> Maybe it's just the usual Canon thing - i.e. "let's leave that out and put it in the next model, just offer users *enough* to make them buy, and kep them hooked, waiting for the next model"


I agree with the eshutter variable frame rate. Not sure why that hasn't been added in firmware. Similar to adding multi-shot/IBIS pixel shift option. Should be relatively simple to add especially if no fancy algorithm is included to reduce subject movement. I believe that it would only be used by a small niche of shooters but it would tick another box.

That said, additional features have been added to the R5 firmware already which is new for Canon (beside the clog upgrade for 5Div) so I don't agree with your last sentence. Canon let their engineers off their leash for the R5. It didn't work perfectly but certainly pushed the technical boundaries at the time.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 6, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Still don't understand. My R5 shows RAW, RAW-light, ALL-I, IPB, and IPB-light as a choice of compression for 8k modes.


Yep, my bad!


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## David - Sydney (Jul 7, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon RAW Light has already been added.


You are correct!


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## goldenhusky (Jul 7, 2021)

This is a CR3? This kind of posts here at CR causes more disappointments.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 7, 2021)

entoman said:


> No, I don't normally use a grip because I often shoot with the camera at ground level and want the lens to be as low as possible for these situations. Also I don't want the extra weight and bulk. For certain situations e,g, shooting on safari from a vehicle, I will be getting a grip. But it would be much better (for me) if Canon simply produced a more powerful battery - I rarely get through a day's shooting on a single battery, and sometimes I have to swap batteries twice a day.
> 
> It can't cost Canon much to develop or buy-in more powerful batteries. I have no idea whether Sony manufacture their own batteries or buy them in. Either way, it shouldn't add more than $100 to the cost of a camera. I hate to plug Sony again, as I don't like the design or ergos of their cameras, but it's notable that Sony fit their more powerful batteries to a7Riv etc, which is a lot cheaper than the R5.


Canon and Sony don't invest in battery technology - they don't have the volume. They would outsource assembly to a 3rd party battery manufacturer. 

New battery tech is the holy grail of mobile devices and has been for a long time. We can look back to Samsung's Galaxy battery issues to see when they go too close to the bleeding edge.

So to throw money or assume $100 to get more capacity is somewhat misunderstanding the current industry. Yes, some 3rd parties can give slightly more capacity but at the risk of poorer performance.

So let's compare Sony vs Canon noting that Canon has already increased their NH capacity by 20% over the original LP-E6 battery

NP-FZ100 2280mAhr 38.7 x 22.7 x 51.7 mm => 7% more capacity than Canon
LP-E6NH 2130mAhr 38.4 x 21 x 56.8 mm
In terms of size, they are within 1% of each other if we assume rectangular shape... both are curved on one side so a reasonable assumption.

So the difference is in the power consumption (processor, sensor, cards etc) rather than the power supply issues.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 7, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> I would welcome a haptic (tactile) feedback option for silent shutter, so I could feel or hear the frame rate.
> 
> And I can't even see why it should be limited to 5 or 10 or 20 FPS. Just pick a rate and let the camera do the math.


wouldn't haptic feedback be a source of vibration which is what we are trying to avoid?


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## David - Sydney (Jul 7, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Just brainstorming here but on the latter issue, a button one could press to force the EVF to turn on might help (for all I know there's a way to set one already). You could press the button as you raise the camera to your eye (or even periodically if it looks like something interesting _might_ be about to happen), thus getting the EVF turned on by the time the camera is at your eye, and that would let the EVF shut off at some times to save some battery juice.


There is the option to use a custom button to switch between EVF and rear screen. I need it for my underwater housing as the face sensor is always covered so I use the Mn-f button to switch them manually


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## David - Sydney (Jul 7, 2021)

entoman said:


> I shoot mainly wildlife and macro, and I find the vari-angle screen quite awkward. A tilting screen is much better for me, because it's on-axis with the lens and sensor, making it much easier to pan or follow action. I love the screen on the Panasonic S1H, which tilts horizontally *and* vertically and remains on-axis, and can also swing out for video. I think the Fujifilm XT2 has a similar concept. I'd really love to see Canon, Nikon and Sony adopt the same design, but I guess that their pride will get in the way.


The S1H screen does look interesting. It is a bigger unit though. Reliability may be one issue compared to the vari-angle screen. Canon seemed to care that a fixed screen was essential for reliability for 5D/1D but the tides have changed there for R3/5/6


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## SteveC (Jul 7, 2021)

entoman said:


> Hi Steve, Yes there are workarounds - you can keep tapping a button every 4 seconds to keep the EVF active, or you can hold the camera close to your chest to cover the eyepiece sensor, or you can cover the eyepiece sensor with black tape. None of these are much of a substitute for having a user-selectable EVF duration though. And if you use the button-tapping method, you have to make sure that the button isn't mapped for AF or any other function that would activate at an inappropriate time.



I wonder if that otherwise-useless "rate" button turns on the EVF when pressed.

Yes, I recognize it's a workaround. But, how would a user selectable EVF duration solve this problem? (Or are you thinking one of the durations could be "never"?) if set to ten seconds and you wanted it after 11, it wouldn't be long enough; in your situation I can imagine it needed to be at least 20 minutes. What you probably really want, therefore, is a way to force it always to be on. (And your suggested workarounds suggest, to me at least, that this is so. Putting tape over a sensor would be annoying to undo and redo over and over again, so that one tells me you just never want the thing to switch off, ever.)

The EVF is a significant battery drain. I have no idea how long an EP 6 NH (or whatever the newest one is named) will run the EVF if it does nothing else; which is why I was suggesting a button to hit basically as you start lifting the camera to your eyes (this avoids the issues of other things running because the viewfinder is always on, too). If that gives it enough time to wake up by the time it's at your eyes, great! If not, then Canon should work on the viewfinder latency _in addition to_ what you're asking for. Because, even if you're wanting/willing to have the viewfinder ON at all times, perhaps others would find the push-a-button-to-give-the-EVF-a-heads-up solution to be the best for their situation.


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## InchMetric (Jul 7, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> wouldn't haptic feedback be a source of vibration which is what we are trying to avoid?


Potentially, depending on exposure and lens. Which can be used to set rules to lock out the function or throttle the magnitude to avoid adverse effects. Or it might be nothing in the real world. And can be an option.

if I’m not mistaken I have this concept in a pending patent application.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 7, 2021)

entoman said:


> I'm basing my belief on the fact that Sony put more powerful batteries in the a7Riv (and a7iii ?) which are both considerably cheaper cameras than the R5. If it's affordable for Sony, it should be affordable for Canon.


Sony's battery for A7Riv and A1 is only 7% more capacity than R5. It's not the cost but the power consumption that is the difference in CIPA/real life shooting between Sony and Canon. Sony's Bionz XR processor is more power efficient than Canon's Digic X. Carrying a spare battery is new for me but it is a small price to pay for the performance over my 5Div


----------



## LJT (Jul 7, 2021)

What happened to the c50 in the first half of this year? Is it still on canons launch list or do they not intend on producing a reliable rf cine camera comparable to the c100?


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## landon (Jul 7, 2021)

LJT said:


> What happened to the c50 in the first half of this year? Is it still on canons launch list or do they not intend on producing a reliable rf cine camera comparable to the c100?


I think Canon is trying to give the C70 some breathing room to counter the a7siii, Red Komodo and BM6kPro. Or the C50 went back to the old drawing board for better specs/sensor. It's a boxy camera.


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## entoman (Jul 7, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I wonder if that otherwise-useless "rate" button turns on the EVF when pressed.
> 
> Yes, I recognize it's a workaround. But, how would a user selectable EVF duration solve this problem? (Or are you thinking one of the durations could be "never"?) if set to ten seconds and you wanted it after 11, it wouldn't be long enough; in your situation I can imagine it needed to be at least 20 minutes. What you probably really want, therefore, is a way to force it always to be on. (And your suggested workarounds suggest, to me at least, that this is so. Putting tape over a sensor would be annoying to undo and redo over and over again, so that one tells me you just never want the thing to switch off, ever.)
> 
> The EVF is a significant battery drain. I have no idea how long an EP 6 NH (or whatever the newest one is named) will run the EVF if it does nothing else; which is why I was suggesting a button to hit basically as you start lifting the camera to your eyes (this avoids the issues of other things running because the viewfinder is always on, too). If that gives it enough time to wake up by the time it's at your eyes, great! If not, then Canon should work on the viewfinder latency _in addition to_ what you're asking for. Because, even if you're wanting/willing to have the viewfinder ON at all times, perhaps others would find the push-a-button-to-give-the-EVF-a-heads-up solution to be the best for their situation.


The rate button will activate the EVF but I've settled on tapping the depth of field preview, which is a more convenient location and a larger button. If there was a user-adjustable timer, I would probably set mine to about 2 minutes - I can live with tapping a button every 2 minutes, but having to tap it every 4 seconds is crazy.

Perhaps a better solution might be to be able to assign a button to toggle the EVF on or off, that way the user could decide exactly how long to leave it on. Forcing it to remain on all the time would place too much drain on the battery, as you point out.


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## entoman (Jul 7, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> The S1H screen does look interesting. It is a bigger unit though. Reliability may be one issue compared to the vari-angle screen. Canon seemed to care that a fixed screen was essential for reliability for 5D/1D but the tides have changed there for R3/5/6


Yes, if a camera with the vari-angle screen was knocked, or heaven forbid dropped, I'm pretty sure that the joint would break, and it would result in an expensive repair possibly involving replacing the entire back-plate of the camera. Vari-angle screens also block or limit access to the ports, and they're horrible if you are trying to pan or follow action with a macro or telephoto.

I'm sure that Canon would rather have a fixed screen, or a less-fragile tilting screen, but they've bowed to pressure from the video crowd. The S1H screen looks to be much less prone to damage, albeit at the expense of increased size and weight. TBH, I might possibly have chosen S1R instead of R5, if it wasn't for the inferior Panasonic AF.

I'm pretty happy with the R5 though, despite any criticisms I might make.


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## entoman (Jul 7, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Sony's battery for A7Riv and A1 is only 7% more capacity than R5. It's not the cost but the power consumption that is the difference in CIPA/real life shooting between Sony and Canon. Sony's Bionz XR processor is more power efficient than Canon's Digic X. Carrying a spare battery is new for me but it is a small price to pay for the performance over my 5Div


Agreed - the bigger issue is the power consumption, and it is here that Sony have a clear lead. But given the fact that Canons are more power-hungry, I think they made a mistake continuing with the LP-E6 battery format. The LP-E6NH is powerful enough to last at least a full day in a 5DMkiv or 5DS, but will only power a R5 for 3-4 hours of my usage. I definitely need to carry 2 spares at all times, and to check the battery indicator more often, as there are few things worse than having a camera die just as a bird or animal appears (only to disappear moments later...). It's very easy to overlook the battery indicator until it starts flashing red, and by then you may only have enough juice left for 2 or 3 shots.


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## No Longer Active (Jul 7, 2021)

I think Canon marketing made too much of the R5 as a high res video camera. To me, it was a stills camera that had a hybrid ability to shoot some video, but many have taken it that it should work like a professional dedicated video camera. It flies in the face of logic to expect a camera that is small and has weather sealing to dissipate heat effectively. I am glad that a R5C is on the way - perhaps it will take the heat (both literally and figuratively) off the R5.


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## Atlasman (Jul 7, 2021)

Tronhard said:


> I think Canon marketing made too much of the R5 as a high res video camera. To me, it was a stills camera that had a hybrid ability to shoot some video, but many have taken it that it should work like a professional dedicated video camera. It flies in the face of logic to expect a camera that is small and has weather sealing to dissipate heat effectively. I am glad that a R5C is on the way - perhaps it will take the heat (both literally and figuratively) off the R5.


Was it Canon or was it us? Yes, they trickled bits of information that generated volumes of speculation. But the real tragedy was the reviewers with their lofty expectations——regardless, I too am glad that the R5 will be a reality.


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## Bdbtoys (Jul 8, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> Was it Canon or was it us? Yes, they trickled bits of information that generated volumes of speculation. But the real tragedy was the reviewers with their lofty expectations——regardless, I too am glad that the R5 will be a reality.


It was Canon. They gave a big presentation before release and really focused on the 4k/8k video aspect. Granted it was right at the time of a big video conference from what I remember, but it was the biggest release they had and the timing couldn't have been any worse since they hyped up that so much.

I was impressed at the time, although I admit I was in it for the stills.


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## SteveC (Jul 8, 2021)

entoman said:


> The rate button will activate the EVF but I've settled on tapping the depth of field preview, which is a more convenient location and a larger button. If there was a user-adjustable timer, I would probably set mine to about 2 minutes - I can live with tapping a button every 2 minutes, but having to tap it every 4 seconds is crazy.
> 
> Perhaps a better solution might be to be able to assign a button to toggle the EVF on or off, that way the user could decide exactly how long to leave it on. Forcing it to remain on all the time would place too much drain on the battery, as you point out.



How long does it take to wake up after it has been tapped (if it has gone to sleep)? Is that fast enough that the EVF is on by the time you get the EVF to your eyeball?


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## wanderer23 (Jul 8, 2021)

landon said:


> I think it will have NDs. Hoping it to be BM6Kpro with Canon's ergonomics, BP batteries.



Really hope you're right re: ND's. p6kp with RF mount would have been amazing too, but oh well.


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## st jack photography (Jul 8, 2021)

entoman said:


> I owned a 5DS before upgrading to an R5, and I found the noise levels of the 5DS above ISO 800 to be intolerable. I'd imagine that noise levels on a 100MP FF sensor, even 5 years later, would still be objectionable (to me) above ISO 800. So, much as I love my Canon gear, if I wanted/needed 100MP, I'd probably get a Fujifilm GFX100.
> 
> Agree regarding the EVF - an up-flipping version would be very welcome, and I wish my R5 had one. I'd also prefer a tilting monitor in preference to the video-centric vari-angle monitors that Canon normally fit.


Oh, the noise on my speculated 100mp camera would be as atrocious as the 5dsr, which I NEVER used above 400 ISO. Also this speculated 100mp camera would have an fps of 2 to 5. I agree with your FUJI statement to a degree. I would have to measure the fuji lens prices against all the Canon glass I have at present, which isn't a lot. I too may jump to FUJI in that instance, especially being a commercial shooter. Medium Format is IT when you shoot commercial.
It is just that I do like Canon very much, despite almost jumping ship when the RF came out and I felt abandoned with all my obsolete EF lenses.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 8, 2021)

st jack photography said:


> Oh, the noise on my speculated 100mp camera would be as atrocious as the 5dsr, which I NEVER used above 400 ISO.


Have you been satisfied with lower MP cameras at higher ISOs? Because if you downsample the 5DsR files to those lower resolutions, the noise will be essentially the same as those lower MP images (technically slightly less, but probably not enough to matter).

But if you’re one of those photographers to whom pixels matter more than pictures, shoot medium format at base ISO only. Better yet, get the LargeSense LS911. It’s only 12 MP, but the sensor is 8x10”. Anything less is just a poor compromise for a truly discerning photographer.



st jack photography said:


> …when the RF came out and I felt abandoned with all my obsolete EF lenses.


All 14 of my EF lenses, covering a focal range from 11mm to 600mm (1200mm with the 2xIII on my 600/4) seem to work fine on my EOS R, with a simple adapter. Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t replace my 11-24/4, my TS-E 17 and 24, or my MP-E 65 with similar RF lenses.

Still, I understand that abandonment issues are tough. Fortunately you didn’t have to go through the FD to EOS shift, you probably would not have even survived. 

Too bad your EF lenses are all obsolete. I’m sure that in a couple months you’ll be desperately searching for the 2022 model of your car, since the moment it comes out your 2021 model will be obsolete.


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## entoman (Jul 8, 2021)

SteveC said:


> How long does it take to wake up after it has been tapped (if it has gone to sleep)? Is that fast enough that the EVF is on by the time you get the EVF to your eyeball?


It takes less than half a second for the EVF to reactivate, and it probably takes a full second to raise my camera to the eye, so the EVF is on by then. I haven't compared the R5 side by side with Sony, Nikon or Panasonic, so I don't know whether the R5 is worse than other brands, or just average.

I'm sure that the EVF startup lag is one of the reasons why most pros still prefer DSLRs. It will be interesting to see whether Canon have solved this issue with the R3, and how well that camera will compare with the Sony a1 and Nikon Z9 in that regard.


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## entoman (Jul 8, 2021)

Tronhard said:


> It flies in the face of logic to expect a camera that is small and has weather sealing to dissipate heat effectively.


Sony a1 is small, weather-sealed and doesn't suffer from overheating when shooting 8K... or so the Sony boys tell us.


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## SteveC (Jul 8, 2021)

entoman said:


> It takes less than half a second for the EVF to reactivate, and it probably takes a full second to raise my camera to the eye, so the EVF is on by then. I haven't compared the R5 side by side with Sony, Nikon or Panasonic, so I don't know whether the R5 is worse than other brands, or just average.
> 
> I'm sure that the EVF startup lag is one of the reasons why most pros still prefer DSLRs. It will be interesting to see whether Canon have solved this issue with the R3, and how well that camera will compare with the Sony a1 and Nikon Z9 in that regard.



This is why I thought hitting a button as you start to raise the camera to your eye would be a workaround (though obviously not ideal). Hit the button and it's on before you can even tell whether it's on or off.

I was wondering, because you referenced periodically hitting the button even while not using the camera, as if it needed more notice to turn on when you needed it.


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## entoman (Jul 8, 2021)

SteveC said:


> This is why I thought hitting a button as you start to raise the camera to your eye would be a workaround (though obviously not ideal). Hit the button and it's on before you can even tell whether it's on or off.
> 
> I was wondering, because you referenced periodically hitting the button even while not using the camera, as if it needed more notice to turn on when you needed it.


Yes I need to get into the habit of tapping the button just before I raise the camera. I don't suppose there's much chance that a firmware update could reduce the EVF lag...

Given that the lag problem exists, it's a shame that Canon didn't come up with a better way of getting the EVF into action faster. There are probably numerous design solutions, but the obvious one would be to fit a touch sensor to the shutter button. In such a design, just touching the button would activate the EVF, but half-pressure would be needed to activate the AF. I guess that wouldn't work with gloved hands though.


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## cayenne (Jul 9, 2021)

vignes said:


> a R5 with reduced video features and more stable stills performance in all battery level would be a welcome. reduce this price and bump up the R5 version price for all those video bells and whistles. make those pay more for all those extra R&D cost for those high end video features.
> there are many Canon stills shooters whom are paying a premium for those video features which they're not using.
> Panasonic does that with paid upgrade or releasing a model like S1H. People whom buy the S1R are mostly buying for stills. it has more useful stills functions.


Those video features add little to any extra $ to the total price of the camera.

I just read a story, had to do with the new retro looking Nikon coming out. They tried it before, but made it all stills and no video and that lack of video pretty much sunk the camera was the consensus.

Today, people expect pretty much ANY stills camera to have video too. And, since it doesn't increase the cost that much (mostly same parts, the R&D has been done already for video, it's not a new thing)...they add it on as that it is expected by most people in the market out there.


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## cayenne (Jul 9, 2021)

st jack photography said:


> Dear Canon:
> 
> Please stop releasing all this amazing, drool-inducing stuff like R3s and f2 zooms and focus on the replacement for the 5DSr. Please give us a BSI 100mp+ camera, preferably with a detachable, up-flipping viewfinder like the fuji GFx. The VF doesn't HAVE to be removable, but please have expanded viewing options for in-studio and tethered. Let us studio pros give some feedback. We have tons of ideas. The r3 body form was a step in the right direction for sure. Variable low-pass too please?
> 
> ...



I would sincerely (no smirking here at all) that if that 100+MP sensor camera you are talking about is what you really want....then go get a Fuji GFX100S.

I have the GFX100 in addition to my Canon gear...and it is fscking amazing!! Now that they have put out the GFX100S, at about $6K I believe...it is. steal for what it is.

They have great glass for it too.

So seriously, different tools for different jobs and the GFX100S sounds like it would be exactly right up your alley.
It's a free world and a free market out there and no one is going to stare at you sideways if you have cameras from different brands, you know?

If you're going to go that high on MP, you might as well get a bit of a boost in sensor size too, eh?

I just put together a pano I was experimenting with of an old abandoned school from the GFX....about 7-9 shots I think.
I took to from a decent distance away as that I couldn't go past a fence...yet, I'm able to easily at 100% see the texture of the mortar in between the old bricks...and if I really want to crop in...wow.

I don't use that camera to shoot action scenes tho either....so, a tool for every job.

Hope that helps.

cayenne


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## Finn (Jul 10, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> The sensor is way different so I cant see that. All it has to do is have the downsampled 4K and no overheating and it will be a great small camera for video. The 4K HQ on the R5 is supposed to be like the best 4K around then add Clog 2, now we are talking. If canon doesnt try to protect clog 2....


R3 sensor is BSI and stacked. So it will have low rolling shutter, potential for better DR, oversampled 4K from 6K+ readout and around 6K RAW.

We know nothing about the "R5C" but there are 3 scenarios:

A R5 internals/sensor with proper cooling it sounds more like a R5 Mk2
A R5 sensor but upgraded with BSI (non-stacked) and better overheating control.
A FF DGO sensor and in the cinema lineup (C90 or something)
I have a feeling clog2 is a canon cinema camera only feature and will be a good indicator of what the R5C actually is.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 10, 2021)

Finn said:


> R3 sensor is BSI and stacked. So it will have low rolling shutter, potential for better DR, oversampled 4K from 6K+ readout and around 6K RAW.
> 
> We know nothing about the "R5C" but there are 3 scenarios:
> 
> ...


An R5C is going to have the R5 sensor but a modded body to better suit active cooling and video use, just like the A7C.

The firmware will be interesting to see how much true C line stuff they put in there.


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## Austintatious (Sep 29, 2021)

Hey what's the deal with the R5C, I haven't heard anything about it?


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## Ruined (Oct 19, 2021)

In before the R5c is unveiled as an R5 in a 5D4 shell


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 20, 2021)

Ruined said:


> In before the R5c is unveiled as an R5 in a 5D4 shell


I would be more than happy with a 5D V as a DSLR version of the R5


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## steen-ag (Nov 11, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> That said, I'm troubled by the heat of my R5 for still shooting. On a warm day in a mostly shady back yard, I shot 192 still images in 16 minutes, following a 55 minute break after shooting a couple dozen images. That's 12 shots per minute.
> 
> It gets _hot _at the grip area. Uncomfortable enough that rotating to vertical to hold the battery grip is a relief. Enough to make one understand the concept of low-temperature burns. I shot some images with my phone using my Leupold LTO, which does not show absolute temps.
> 
> ...


Hej
I have had the same promlem with my R5. I was sooting about 300 pictures i 2,5 hours on a concert and suddenly I got a warning om my display, that the came was getting hot. The grib was warm and I turned the camera off and wated perhaps 10 min. I still got the warning.
I tokke RAW on CF-Express and jpg on the SD card.
I have changed that to tage RAW on both. 
If that also give problem, I will try on to use the SD card.
I will will look futher into that problem
Steen Aage Nierlsen
Denmark.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jan 11, 2022)

steen-ag said:


> Hej
> I have had the same promlem with my R5. I was sooting about 300 pictures i 2,5 hours on a concert and suddenly I got a warning om my display, that the came was getting hot. The grib was warm and I turned the camera off and wated perhaps 10 min. I still got the warning.
> I tokke RAW on CF-Express and jpg on the SD card.
> I have changed that to tage RAW on both.
> ...


The warning is just for video.
It does not overheat during photos.
It just means you would not be able to shoot video in whatever video mode is currently set.
If you switch the video mode then the warning will disappear.


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## ClickItMXGirl (Sep 20, 2022)

reef58 said:


> Shot a wedding last Saturday. Used the R5 and 1dx3. Started around 3 and finished around 9. High temps around 90 and out in the sun. Ended up with over 11,000 photos and not one overheating issue. Both cameras were left on the entire time. Both cameras were warm, but it was in the 90's or high 80's the entire time.


I'm getting the Overheat issue. I shot motocross all week last week and through the weekend. After an hour of shooting I was getting my overheat warning. Does not matter what battery I use, does not matter what lens I use. Temps were 100 all week/weekend. I do have a wrap on my camera. But i've been shooting in these temps all summer and this is the 2nd weekend I've gotten overheat warnings. I have somewhere around 80k pics through this camera since Mid February when I purchased it.


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 20, 2022)

ClickItMXGirl said:


> I'm getting the Overheat issue. I shot motocross all week last week and through the weekend. After an hour of shooting I was getting my overheat warning. Does not matter what battery I use, does not matter what lens I use. Temps were 100 all week/weekend. I do have a wrap on my camera. But i've been shooting in these temps all summer and this is the 2nd weekend I've gotten overheat warnings. I have somewhere around 80k pics through this camera since Mid February when I purchased it.


The overheat warning is meaningless if you are only shooting photos.


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