# Leica: Trouble in paradise?



## tron (Dec 11, 2014)

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8752612172/leica-m9-users-report-sensor-corrosion-issue

Copied from dpreview site: Leica M9 users report sensor corrosion issue


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## Joe M (Dec 11, 2014)

The think I find the most amusing (absurd) is that, should you send your camera in for sensor replacement, Leica will replace it with the same potentially defective part so that you can go through the process for as long as you own the camera. The fact that it's at no charge to the owner (for three years) and pro-rated after that may make up for the fact that a replacement is not a problem solver may work for some and obviously Leica but it would not work for me.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 11, 2014)

Leica uses noble metals like gold, on the outside of some cameras, but does not use noble metals on your sensor? ???


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## tron (Dec 11, 2014)

Not that I could afford a Leica system (I am not even interested in) but this is another reason to stick to my "lowly" DSLRs...


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## DominoDude (Dec 11, 2014)

Joe M said:


> The think I find the most amusing (absurd) is that, should you send your camera in for sensor replacement, Leica will replace it with the same potentially defective part so that you can go through the process for as long as you own the camera. The fact that it's at no charge to the owner (for three years) and pro-rated after that may make up for the fact that a replacement is not a problem solver may work for some and obviously Leica but it would not work for me.



I read a little more about this a few hours ago, and it can happen on more models than the M9. Leica has also changed their mind on the pricing after three years - it should now be free to all users, no matter the age of the camera. 

Joe, you're dead on that they will use the same type of sensor as replacement, so it might happen quite a few times for unlucky owners.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 11, 2014)

The issue is not with the sensor, but with the glass cover. If it is scratched thru its coating, them corrosion will form on the glass, not the sensor. Leica does not yet have a solution that will solve the issue. In the meantime, they are fixing cameras with a identical part. Eventually, a permanent solution with a different glass cover will be found. Owners should refraining from scratching that glass cover if that's even possible.


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## DominoDude (Dec 11, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The issue is not with the sensor, but with the glass cover. If it is scratched thru its coating, them corrosion will form on the glass, not the sensor. Leica does not yet have a solution that will solve the issue. In the meantime, they are fixing cameras with a identical part. Eventually, a permanent solution with a different glass cover will be found. Owners should refraining from scratching that glass cover if that's even possible.



Agreed, it's not really the sensor that has the initial issues. As I understood it from the suggested prices they initially had on this, it has to be the entire sensor that is changed. Is that your conclusion also?


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## Joe M (Dec 11, 2014)

Well, my comment of earlier was based on info days old and yes, things have changed quite a bit.
First of all, I should be more precise and not just say "sensor" when talking about the entire assembly. It is of course just the coating on the glass that's the issue as you say. And now Leica is repairing older cameras and refunding money to those who initially paid for a fix. 



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The issue is not with the sensor, but with the glass cover.
> If it is scratched thru its coating, them corrosion will form on the glass, not the sensor. Leica does not yet have a solution that will solve the issue. In the meantime, they are fixing cameras with a identical part. Eventually, a permanent solution with a different glass cover will be found. Owners should refraining from scratching that glass cover if that's even possible.



I didn't mean to come off so harsh against Leica but it just seems funny to replace a part that's defective with the same part. I guess it gets people up and running but I'm not so sure I'd rather just wait for a permanent solution, now that it's known to be an issue and not random event. Everyone to their own and so on. 

I did notice that (may have changed since I last read it) that on the German website Leica removed references to contact cleaning. Maybe the coating isn't as tough or adherent as it ought to be.


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## AlanF (Dec 11, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The issue is not with the sensor, but with the glass cover. If it is scratched thru its coating, them corrosion will form on the glass, not the sensor. Leica does not yet have a solution that will solve the issue. In the meantime, they are fixing cameras with a identical part. Eventually, a permanent solution with a different glass cover will be found. Owners should refraining from scratching that glass cover if that's even possible.



I am confused. The glass is simply a Schott glass bandpass filter (http://www.howardglass.com/pdf/s_8612_datasheet.pdf). How can glass corrode? It's tough enough to survive strong solvents http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52096442


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## zlatko (Dec 12, 2014)

AlanF said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > The issue is not with the sensor, but with the glass cover. If it is scratched thru its coating, them corrosion will form on the glass, not the sensor. Leica does not yet have a solution that will solve the issue. In the meantime, they are fixing cameras with a identical part. Eventually, a permanent solution with a different glass cover will be found. Owners should refraining from scratching that glass cover if that's even possible.
> ...



Apparently it's the glue that causes the problem. That's what some people are saying, anyway. It may not meet the true definition of "corrosion".

Leica cameras are great fun to use. I wish them good luck in solving this problem. One of the reasons I use Canon for most of my work is that I don't have to fear months of camera "downtime" while the camera is in for repair. Canon has been extremely quick with every repair I've ever sent them.


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## slclick (Dec 12, 2014)

zlatko said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



I sent my 5D3 body in for CMS cleaning, they received it late yesterday and by 10 am this morning I received a text that it was finished and ready for FedEx Overnight Priority return. 

Really, does anyone do it any better? It's about the whole enchilada people, not just DR.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 12, 2014)

zlatko said:


> Leica cameras are great fun to use. I wish them good luck in solving this problem. One of the reasons I use Canon for most of my work is that I don't have to fear months of camera "downtime" while the camera is in for repair. Canon has been extremely quick with every repair I've ever sent them.


 
If there is a issue that affects a lot of cameras, and many of them are having serious issues, Canon will run out of tape to fix them.


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## jrista (Dec 12, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The issue is not with the sensor, but with the glass cover. If it is scratched thru its coating, them corrosion will form on the glass, not the sensor. Leica does not yet have a solution that will solve the issue. In the meantime, they are fixing cameras with a identical part. Eventually, a permanent solution with a different glass cover will be found. Owners should refraining from scratching that glass cover if that's even possible.




+1 


Sometimes there isn't a known solution to a problem. Leica is not the only company to experience such issues. I'm currently evaluating buying a Quantum Scientific Imaging CCD camera. There are two options, one is a newer design that uses a Sony sensor. QSI is a very reputable company, they produce very high quality parts...but sometimes things slip through. There is a faint "glow" problem with some of their Sony based cameras. It's an extremely faint glow, and even with it, the quality of images from these cameras surpasses most others. It's still an issue, though, given that these things cost at least four grand. The company has not yet issued a statement or recall covering a resolution yet...simply because they do not have one. It can take some time to resolve obscure issues, especially when they do not necessarily affect every single product sold.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 12, 2014)

jrista said:


> It can take some time to resolve obscure issues, especially when they do not necessarily affect every single product sold.



That didn't stop Canon being ripped a new butt over the largely internet hyped 1D MkIII AF soap opera. Nobody could reliably reproduce the 'issue', just some cameras didn't do well shooting some subjects at some temperatures, sometimes, yet the internet had a firestorm and Canon didn't know how or what to do to placate everybody, most of whom never even touched a 1D MkIII.


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## jrista (Dec 12, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > It can take some time to resolve obscure issues, especially when they do not necessarily affect every single product sold.
> ...




QSI is getting ripped over the glow issue, too. Human nature, I guess.


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