# Gear upgrade. Is 7D still worth buying?



## TehPenguin (Mar 10, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

I am about to upgrade my old 450d, which served me very well for the past few years, but I'm not quite sure what should I buy. What is the best option to upgrade your old rebel?

I was thinking about the 7D, since it seems to be a very good, high end camera and the price is acceptable. But the 7D will have it's 4th birthday very soon, therefore I'm not sure if it's smart to buy it, or maybe just wait a little for it's equivalent to come.

I'm also thinking about buying the 70-200mm f/4.0 L lens.

I enjoy pretty much every kind of photography. 
I started out with macro, went further to landscapes, then city life, portraits, people, motion... I try to get to know a bit of everything.

Maybe if I'll tell you what I've got myself so far it will help you in advising me.

Lenses:
Canon:
15mm 2.8f Fish Eye
50mm 1.8f
100mm 2.8f Macro
18-55mm Kit lens
Sigma:
17-35mm 2.8-4f (This one seems to be at the end of it's days though)
Tamron:
28-200mm 3.8-5.6f

Flashes:
Canon Speedlite 550EX


I appreciate any kind of help!

Best regards,
TehPenguin


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## crasher7 (Mar 10, 2012)

My 7D BLOWS away my T2i. I know there are many who will post all sorts of 'facts' about howe the guts are too similar for me to make that claim but I'm using the same lenses in sometime the same location and lighting and the difference is there. Sell your T series on ebay, CL or whatever, as I state over and over you CAN get almost what you paid for it and then use the Canon Loyalty Program to upgrade. It's that easy and not sure why more people don't do it.


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## jwong (Mar 10, 2012)

Depends on what your budget is. The replacement for the 7D will be pricier, but it looks like Canon is trying to improve high ISO performance based on what the 1D X and 5D3 are specifications are. If its current price is near the top of your budget, then you might want to get a current one. Getting a Canon refurbished unit is also less expensive than new.


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## candyman (Mar 10, 2012)

TehPenguin said:


> ............ But the 7D will have it's 4th birthday very soon, therefore I'm not sure if it's smart to buy it, or maybe just wait a little for it's equivalent to come..........




I recall the 7D arrived in november 2009. So the camera will be 3 years in nov. 2012.
I have this camera and I am very pleased with it for any kind of photography.
I would suggest this camera since your lenses fit this APS-C camera. 
The possible successor will arrive probably only spring 2013 (announcement Photokina 2012??). That will give you at least 1 year pleasure of this camera. And in case you want to buy the successor next year, you will still be able to get a nice price for the 7D (or maybe use it as your second / backup camera)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 10, 2012)

The price of the camera seems to have held up well, Mine is a great camera, but beginning to feel its age. It does struggle in low light, the low light high ISO needs some serious improvement.

I'd recommend getting a refurb thru the Canon loyalty Program. Just trade in your old broken film body or broken powershot and get about 15% additional off the refurb price. When I bought mine, they did not bother to actually take the old film body, its still sitting here.


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## ruuneos (Mar 10, 2012)

Just go ahead and buy 7D  7D Mark II is probably to be announced in Photokina, later this year or early 2013.
Say in my opinion *Just buy it and enjoy.*


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## Michael_pfh (Mar 10, 2012)

The 7D is still a very good camera. This will not change if the Mk2 will be announced one day.


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## AJ (Mar 10, 2012)

I too say: go ahead and get a 7D. Great camera, I like mine.

As for lenses. 70-200/4 L is a really nice lens. My friend has one, I've used it, and I really like it. However I think your lens lineup is a bit weak in the wide range. Neither the C18-55, S17-35 nor the T28-200 matches well with the 7D, IMO.

I suggest picking up a 15-85/3.5-5.6 IS. You'll love this thing for the uses you describe.

Another route is to go with an f/2.8 17-50 type zoom (e.g. Canon 17-55/2.8 IS) plus an ultrawide for landscape (e.g. Canon 10-22). This would be a pricier setup. I'd look at these choices before buying a telephoto lens. You've already got the 100/2.8 which you can use for telephoto for now.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 10, 2012)

AJ said:


> I too say: go ahead and get a 7D. Great camera, I like mine.


Since everyone else is in the habit of recommending their own gear, why shouldn't I  ... which is if you're concerned about the 7d being replaced soon (and imho it is the next one in queue), get the newer 60d and put the difference into a new lens like the said 15-85. The 7d has the same sonsor, but adds a better body for large hands, more weather sealing and a superior af over the 60d, while the latter has the adjustable screen - very handy for odd shot angles - and runs magic lantern which is an absolute must for me. So if you're not shooting sports, you could consider saving some money here.



AJ said:


> You've already got the 100/2.8 which you can use for telephoto for now.


I've got the 100/2.8 macro, too, but while it is stellar for macro and short range I have to admit this is not a tele lens - that's why I got the 70-300L which is optimized for crop bodies and the IS does help very much for long range, except for moving objects of course.


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## boateggs (Mar 10, 2012)

ruuneos said:


> Just go ahead and buy 7D  7D Mark II is probably to be announced in Photokina, later this year or early 2013.
> Say in my opinion *Just buy it and enjoy.*



Agreed that the 7d is wicked (thinking about getting one but I am going to wait and see if the 70d gets AFMA) but I just had a thought about the Photokina prediction that everyone has been putting weight in. I think it will be sooner than that: the D300s is off the market in Japan and I am sure that Nikon is hastily working to get a replacement out soon, thus Canon will respond shortly after...or at least I am hoping!

OP: I am in the same boat as you, a lot has improved since the 450d and I want in on the fun


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## Jim K (Mar 10, 2012)

Go for the 7D. I liked my 7D so much that when I found out about the CLP I bought a second one. About $1087 + tax. I kept the small gold sticker on the refurb so I could tell it from the older one I bought new, otherwise could not tell them apart.

I have the 15-85 that spends a lot of time on my old 50D for "snapshot" work and a 7D for casual landscapes. It starts at a nice wide point (24mm FOV) and goes to a 136mm tele FOV. Delivers nice IQ at a less than four figure price. Lenses are not on the CLP so Canon's refurb shop is the only place to get one at a lower price and when you add the sales tax and shipping charges you may find that a new lens with the one year guarentee is worth the slight price increase.


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## nitsujwalker (Mar 10, 2012)

I bought the 7D a little while ago and I must say I am still amazingly pleased by it. As others have said, low light isn't great but I believe it's better than my 50D was. And I also have the 70-200f4l (non-is) and I LOVE it. I couldn't justify the i.s. version and I can always sell it if I want to upgrade later and not lose much money. Truly, if the 7D is in your price range it's a great camera. The successor will surely cost quite a bit more and you can always upgrade later. I do not regret buying mine and love the camera plus 70-200 for wildlife and other things.


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## lecoupdejarnac (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm also upgrading from a 450D - and decided to go with the 5D mk II. You can get one refurbished or used for a little more than the 7D. On amazon the 7D is about $1600 right now, in the Canon refurbished store the 5DII is $1760. Of course you can find a used/refurbished 7D even cheaper though.


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## dbduchene (Mar 10, 2012)

The Canon EOS 7D is an 18.0 effective megapixel APS-C crop CMOS digital single-lens reflex camera made by Canon.[2] It was announced on September 1, 2009 with a suggested retail price of US$1,699 (from wikipedia) so it is less then 3 years still. I have a 7D along with a 5D and a 5D Mk II in my Bag and these days it is the most used camera in my bag. Get the look of a way to get one now and start enjoying it. THen you can wait for the price to drop and any bugs to be worked out on the MK II when it comes out. I got mine on Craigslist for net 14 months old and less than 2000 shutter count with a kit lens for 1400.


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## Jim K (Mar 10, 2012)

lecoupdejarnac said:


> I'm also upgrading from a 450D - and decided to go with the 5D mk II. You can get one refurbished or used for a little more than the 7D. On amazon the 7D is about $1600 right now, in the Canon refurbished store the 5DII is $1760. Of course you can find a used/refurbished 7D even cheaper though.


A Canon refurb 5D2 at the Canon Refurb store is $1760 + tax & shipping and a Canon [7D] refurb on the Canon Loyalty Program is $1087 + tax, no shipping last I looked. That comes out to about $690. That goes a good way to getting a nice lens.

Edit: Canon *7D* is $1087


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## AprilForever (Mar 10, 2012)

Get the 7D. You'll never be sorry.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 10, 2012)

AprilForever said:


> Get the 7D. You'll never be sorry.


... unless you later figure out that you should have bought a 5d2 after all .

As I said earlier, people will always tell you their own gear is fine because each and every camera in this category is good and usable. But the clever way to go is to ask yourself a) what are you going to shoot most, b) in what conditions do you shoot and c) how much money are you going to spend for photo gear during the next couple of years. Then might get more informed answers...


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## crasher7 (Mar 10, 2012)

Jim K said:


> lecoupdejarnac said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also upgrading from a 450D - and decided to go with the 5D mk II. You can get one refurbished or used for a little more than the 7D. On amazon the 7D is about $1600 right now, in the Canon refurbished store the 5DII is $1760. Of course you can find a used/refurbished 7D even cheaper though.
> ...



Sorry but the 7D is $1087 not the 5D2. The 5D2 isn't always on the CLP btw. Sometimes it is and not listed and other times it's off. The 7D stays on pretty regularly and I can vouch it goes for 1087.00 plus sales tax.


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## smirkypants (Mar 10, 2012)

Hate to be the naysayer here, but the 7D is three year old tech and the camera in hand is fine. I would upgrade the glass for now, and in a year or so upgrade to the 7D2. In the near term the better glass will make a bigger difference, and in a year the wait will have been worth it... unless Canon charges 80% more for the 7D2.


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## crasher7 (Mar 11, 2012)

If you know what you're doing you can shoot the worlds greatest photographs with 50 year old equipment. Oh yeah, not many here shoot film, ok, 8 year old digi. 3 years old is too old? You drank the kool aid.


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## smirkypants (Mar 11, 2012)

crasher7 said:


> If you know what you're doing you can shoot the worlds greatest photographs with 50 year old equipment. Oh yeah, not many here shoot film, ok, 8 year old digi. 3 years old is too old? You drank the kool aid.


I think you're missing the point. I'm actually saying that the photographer can take fine pictures with the camera in hand, right? The glass will make a bigger difference. The 7D2 will almost certainly have lower noise and better ISO performance, so why not hold off? Why pay full price for last year's model when what you're driving now is fine?


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## jwong (Mar 11, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> I think you're missing the point. I'm actually saying that the photographer can take fine pictures with the camera in hand, right? The glass will make a bigger difference. The 7D2 will almost certainly have lower noise and better ISO performance, so why not hold off? Why pay full price for last year's model when what you're driving now is fine?



+1. Lenses do make more of a difference than bodies most of the time. I have a 6+ year old 20D, and I tried out a friend's 7D. The 7D had 18MP versus my 8MP, but noisewise, it was a little less than one stop better when processed in LR at ISO 1600. I was shocked. That is one reason why I'm thinking about moving FF -- larger sensor size, larger pixels and hopefully better noise/high ISO performance than APS-C.


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## nitsujwalker (Mar 11, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> Hate to be the naysayer here, but the 7D is three year old tech and the camera in hand is fine. I would upgrade the glass for now, and in a year or so upgrade to the 7D2. In the near term the better glass will make a bigger difference, and in a year the wait will have been worth it... unless Canon charges 80% more for the 7D2.



I have to disagree. If better autofocus is needed then the 7D is the way to go as new glass won't help significantly in this area. 

EDIT:
And I don't mean for this to sound harsh. Only that there may be reasons other than IQ to upgrade.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 11, 2012)

jwong said:


> I have a 6+ year old 20D, and I tried out a friend's 7D. The 7D had 18MP versus my 8MP, but noisewise, it was a little less than one stop better when processed in LR at ISO 1600. I was shocked.


Canon states that higher mp is for cropping - so your observation is in line with this. 8mp would be not enough for me because I often crop, rotate, convert horizontal to vertical or 2:3 to 16:9. And up to iso 800, the current 18mp sensor is ok.

The strange thing about Canon is that they differentiate between their bodies by build quality and af, so the 7D has the same sensor as the 550d. Thus, if you are set on the best iq it is advisable to get a better lens and a body that is still usable for an advanced user (did I mention the 60d lately ). You only need to predict how often you shoot complex moving object scenes or in the rain (with weather sealed lenses, of course!). If yes get the 7d.


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## crasher7 (Mar 11, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> crasher7 said:
> 
> 
> > If you know what you're doing you can shoot the worlds greatest photographs with 50 year old equipment. Oh yeah, not many here shoot film, ok, 8 year old digi. 3 years old is too old? You drank the kool aid.
> ...


When you put it that way sure! But your initial post did not convey that message well.


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## jwong (Mar 11, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Canon states that higher mp is for cropping - so your observation is in line with this. 8mp would be not enough for me because I often crop, rotate, convert horizontal to vertical or 2:3 to 16:9. And up to iso 800, the current 18mp sensor is ok.



I did not know that higher mp was primarily for cropping, thanks. I'd always assumed that high iso performance improved as the max iso increased, but that was not the case. I'm hoping that this new generation of cameras (1D X, 5D3, 7D2, 70D) will improve high ISO performance significantly because it's hard to shoot in dim auditoriums even with f/2.8 lenses. I do like the wide angle lens selection available to FF cameras, although I'll have to figure out what to do because I really like the 35L on the crop body, but Canon's options at 50mm don't seem that great.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 11, 2012)

jwong said:


> I'm hoping that this new generation of cameras (1D X, 5D3, 7D2, 70D) will improve high ISO performance significantly because it's hard to shoot in dim auditoriums even with f/2.8 lenses. I do like the wide angle lens selection available to FF cameras, although I'll have to figure out what to do because I really like the 35L on the crop body, but Canon's options at 50mm don't seem that great.


Good thing you figured out that f2.8 doesn't enable a lens to shoot in the dark - but don't mention it too often, the people with f2.8 lenses will come after you  ... oops, my macro is f2.8, too, but I'm always stating the dof is too thin to be usable. Of course an upcoming ff sensor might help to get lower iso noise, but even 1-2 EV improvement still doesn't eliminate the need for artificial light, esp. since the dynamic range is still the same. We'll have to wait another 10 years for that.

As for the 50mm: the Sigma 1.4 is highly regarded, and this aperture actually does make a difference in low light. I wouldn't get the legacy Canon 50mm lenses, I have the 50/1.8 and it's crappy and the 50/1.4 isn't better either unless stopped down.


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## Gary W. (Mar 11, 2012)

Hey all,

From the title of this thread, I would assume (I know, I know) that you thought the 7D was, at one time, worth buying. I believe it still is. It is, without a doubt, the best crop sensor camera in Canon's lineup. I have been happy with mine for over 2 years, and I realize that most of what disappoints me about shooting with it is lens related or operator error. It is not a perfect camera, but for the price you can get it for, it is very hard to beat!

Gary W.


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## KeithR (Mar 11, 2012)

TehPenguin said:


> I started out with macro, went further to landscapes, then city life, portraits, people, motion... I try to get to know a bit of everything.



Huge fan though I am of my 7D (for bird photography and sports in the main) I have to say that for the stuff you shoot, I think a 60D would be great - the added value the 7D brings to the table really does play to action and wildlife.


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## KeithR (Mar 11, 2012)

crasher7 said:


> If you know what you're doing you can shoot the worlds greatest photographs with 50 year old equipment.


Spoken like someone who has never shot challenging, unpredictable, fast-moving stuff in his life - have you _seen_ how irredeemably crap 50 year old sport and wildlife photographs are by todays standards?


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## crasher7 (Mar 11, 2012)

*You schooled me! I hope you smited me as well. *

Missed my point you did Keith. But I am glad I gave you an opportunity to prove yourself and tell that idiot crasher 7 just how far off the mark he was. 

See here's the deal, I shoot challenging images with a 7D successfully. I also shoot and develop my own film work with gear that is not unlike cameras and lenses from days of old.and this gives me an understanding of the timeless art of photography which lends towards to notion that it's not about the gear but who is behind the camera. Ever heard that adage before? Anyone?


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## smirkypants (Mar 11, 2012)

*Re: You schooled me! I hope you smited me as well. *



crasher7 said:


> it's not about the gear but who is behind the camera. Ever heard that adage before? Anyone?


I'm pretty sure this adage is naive, and deep down we all know it. We all know that better gear opens up different kinds of possibilities and increases the number of keepers. I can't believe some of the crap I used to shoot.

Quality of the shot = quality of the shooter + quality of the gear.


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## bycostello (Mar 11, 2012)

nothing wrong with the 7d, although the mk2 is probably not far away...


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## Marsu42 (Mar 11, 2012)

*Re: You schooled me! I hope you smited me as well. *



smirkypants said:


> Quality of the shot = quality of the shooter + quality of the gear.


True, but "quality" is very unspecific. Do your shots get better with weather sealing if not shooting in the rain? Do they improve with an stellar servo af if shooting macro or portrait? How many custom features and dials are needed, or can you get used even to a simpler body? So the baseline quality is the iq of the gear - I hope nobody with a 7d reads this


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## nitsujwalker (Mar 11, 2012)

*Re: You schooled me! I hope you smited me as well. *



Marsu42 said:


> smirkypants said:
> 
> 
> > Quality of the shot = quality of the shooter + quality of the gear.
> ...



You are spot on. I shoot a 7D and IQ isn't much better than my 50D though I can crop more. But I am so pleased with the autofocus and weather sealing. In my case the autofocus allows for better photos as I enjoy shooting, wildlife, sports and often take it climbing in not-so-great weather. If I weren't doing that then the upgrade wouldn't have made much of a difference at all!


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## crasher7 (Mar 11, 2012)

If you spend enough money you'll naysay all adages in order to justify your credit card bill


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## adamkozlowski (Mar 11, 2012)

Honestly I have yet to see a 7D perform well with any glass faster than 2.8. The AF is all over the place. Get a 60D - at least it has a twist/swivel screen. And if someone tells me that 7D is weather-proof i will laugh in their faces. Mine died from a drizzle. It woke up when it dried out but it was a sore disappointment. I'm glad i sold mine after a year of constant failure. I bought it mostly for video but also as backup to my 5D2 for wedding work. I only worked with L primes. None of them worked OK on the 7D, no matter how long i spent doing AF microadjustments. Oh and the video quality wasn't even close to that of 5D2. A friend of mine, a long time pro & Canon shooter from LA, told me - don't buy the 7D, it's a dressed-up Rebel. I know i should have listened to him.


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## smirkypants (Mar 11, 2012)

crasher7 said:


> If you spend enough money you'll naysay all adages in order to justify your credit card bill


If you can't afford the good stuff, you'll justify your inability to get it by saying it doesn't matter.


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## ruuneos (Mar 11, 2012)

Few good reasons to get 7D:
- One of the best APS-C sized sensor camera ( Or the best )
- It's a great second-hand body ( when you upgrade it )
- Sweet 8 FPS burst
- Well's amazing and surprises you every time
Great HD video DSLR.

Well those are my reasons why I ever bought it, I shoot lots of sports and videos so I came up with 7D.
I'm pretty much All-Round photographer, but this winter have been bit boring just only 2000 pics taken and 7D have surprised me every time still after these 10.000 shots.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 11, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> The 7D2 will almost certainly have lower noise and better ISO performance, so why not hold off? Why pay full price for last year's model when what you're driving now is fine?



I agree that the list price of a new one is too high, $1600 seems a bit pricy, they were about $1800 when first released over 2 years ago. Mine came in the first batch.

A MK II might cost $2100 though, the way Canon has been boosting prices. If a person does not have a need for one now, there will always be the possibility of a newer model. As I noted earlier, $1155 more less for a refurb thru Canon CLP is a good alternative. You have to call to get the current pricing.


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## nitsujwalker (Mar 11, 2012)

adamkozlowski said:


> Honestly I have yet to see a 7D perform well with any glass faster than 2.8. The AF is all over the place. Get a 60D - at least it has a twist/swivel screen. And if someone tells me that 7D is weather-proof i will laugh in their faces. Mine died from a drizzle. It woke up when it dried out but it was a sore disappointment. I'm glad i sold mine after a year of constant failure. I bought it mostly for video but also as backup to my 5D2 for wedding work. I only worked with L primes. None of them worked OK on the 7D, no matter how long i spent doing AF microadjustments. Oh and the video quality wasn't even close to that of 5D2. A friend of mine, a long time pro & Canon shooter from LA, told me - don't buy the 7D, it's a dressed-up Rebel. I know i should have listened to him.



I'm just curious.. You said you tried microadjust for the lenses, were they just not focusing properly on your 7D (simply out of focus)? Seems odd. I haven't shot a ton of fast glass on mine except 50mm 1.2, 1.4, and 1.8 and haven't had any problems. I wonder if your body was a dud. Anyways, I'm sorry for your bad experience with the camera. It sucks to have something that doesn't work as it should!


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## KeithR (Mar 11, 2012)

adamkozlowski said:


> Honestly I have yet to see a 7D perform well with any glass faster than 2.8. The AF is all over the place.



Mine's great - and the AF is just fine - with my little Canon 50mm f/1.8...


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## KeithR (Mar 11, 2012)

ruuneos said:


> 7D have surprised me every time still after these 10.000 shots.



I was going to write the same thing: I've had the 7D since December 2009, and I _still_ routinely come back from a day in the field with images that make me shake my head and think "f*** me, that's good..."


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## KeithR (Mar 11, 2012)

adamkozlowski said:


> A friend of mine, a long time pro & Canon shooter from LA, told me - don't buy the 7D, it's a dressed-up Rebel.


Then your friend is an idiot.


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## dbduchene (Mar 11, 2012)

The 7D is NOT a dressed up Rebel

As to the focusing my 7D has had NO PROBLEMS at all with my EF 85 F1.2 and a Sigma 50 F1.4


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## dmj (Mar 11, 2012)

I bought a 7D as a backup for my 5D mk II. I did love the focus and burst, but wow did I hate the IQ. When looking through my shots with the 5D I am always amazed how well it performs (couple it with a 35L and it's the closest thing to sex a camera can become) when used well. The 7D, to be honest, I never got a great shot. I got great compositions and exposures, but no images really popped. Dull photos, to put it nice, even worse on paper than on the screen.

I sold it prior to the 1DX release, knowing that I'd probably only be able to go with one of those and make my mk II my backup house. I suppose, once you've had a FF you'll never settle for a 7D.


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## ruuneos (Mar 11, 2012)

dmj said:


> I suppose, once you've had a FF you'll never settle for a 7D.


 FF is always FF no turning back once you got it.
I bought 7D and going to shoot photos with this until I see to put new gear in and move to FF DSLR body.


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## pgphillips05 (Mar 11, 2012)

Not sure what the point of mentioning full frame cameras when TehPenguin is asking if he should buy a 7D now or wait for it's replacement. 

I am in the same position and want to buy a camera like the 7D. My budget can extend a little over the 7D but is not enough to extend to a 5D.

I would absolutely wait. You can see the big improvements in technology of the Canon 1DX and 5DmIII over their previous models. Likewise with Nikon and the D4 and D800. You can bet Canon's replacement to the 7D will offer huge improvements. 

You already have a DSLR, so it is not like you cannot take any photos. Why buy an almost 3 year old a camera now, only to have it blown away by it's replacement? While not for sure, I believe the 7D replacement will be available in 2012. If I bought a 7D now, I know in 6 months time when the replacement is announced, my still relatively new and expensive purchase will be feeling old and dated.

As I said, you already have a DSLR to take photos in the mean time


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## scottsdaleriots (Mar 12, 2012)

I've got a 7d (it was gonna be my 2nd body til i found out the asking price for the 5dmkiii), i've had it since 2009. it's pretty good, though i've never used a FF thoroughly before so I cant compare IQ but hey, it's a crop VS a FF. Anyways it's pretty rugged and the AF is better than the 5dmkii's so no complaints there. I've gone to and done at least 14 shoots with it shooting for over 16+ hrs in one day (the longest was about 18hrs, give or take a few mins) for a major sports event - hence why i bought the camera for sports photography.

IMO what you need to ask yourself is do you really _need_ it? There's a differences between 'need' and 'want'. 7d's pretty cheap now compared to when i bought it 3yrs ago. Will there be a 7dmkii? WHo knows? Just look at how long we waited for the 5dmkiii and how disappointing it is in price (for me at least and i wanted a MP monster to compete with nikon's cameras). 

I dunno how helpful my advice is, but if you need/really want it and have the money to spend: then buy it. If you arent 100% committed to buying a 7d now (e.g. you're waiting for the mkii or some other new camera canon might annouce [which is what i'm hoping for but i know wont happen] soon) then dont buy it. If your camera stills works and does what you want it to do and you can wait a bit longer (maybe 12-24months longer) then dont buy it. Its kinda like me waiting for the new 2012 macbook pros (i've been waiting for a few years, darn apple! Im tempted to buy a late 2011 17" MBP with maybe a 27" imac but then i dont want buyers regret when apple do finally announce and release the new 2012 MBPs and updated imac's 6 or so months later).


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## wickidwombat (Mar 12, 2012)

scottsdaleriots said:


> I've got a 7d (it was gonna be my 2nd body til i found out the asking price for the 5dmkiii), i've had it since 2009. it's pretty good, though i've never used a FF thoroughly before so I cant compare IQ but hey, it's a crop VS a FF. Anyways it's pretty rugged and the AF is better than the 5dmkii's so no complaints there. I've gone to and done at least 14 shoots with it shooting for over 16+ hrs in one day (the longest was about 18hrs, give or take a few mins) for a major sports event - hence why i bought the camera for sports photography.
> 
> IMO what you need to ask yourself is do you really _need_ it? There's a differences between 'need' and 'want'. 7d's pretty cheap now compared to when i bought it 3yrs ago. Will there be a 7dmkii? WHo knows? Just look at how long we waited for the 5dmkiii and how disappointing it is in price (for me at least and i wanted a MP monster to compete with nikon's cameras).
> 
> I dunno how helpful my advice is, but if you need/really want it and have the money to spend: then buy it. If you arent 100% committed to buying a 7d now (e.g. you're waiting for the mkii or some other new camera canon might annouce [which is what i'm hoping for but i know wont happen] soon) then dont buy it. If your camera stills works and does what you want it to do and you can wait a bit longer (maybe 12-24months longer) then dont buy it. Its kinda like me waiting for the new 2012 macbook pros (i've been waiting for a few years, darn apple! Im tempted to buy a late 2011 17" MBP with maybe a 27" imac but then i dont want buyers regret when apple do finally announce and release the new 2012 MBPs and updated imac's 6 or so months later).



I think once the 650D gets announced the 7D will get cheaper since it will be a good indication of what the mk 2 will have in it. in the next few months there are going to be some nice 7D bargains to be had thats for sure


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## ruuneos (Mar 12, 2012)

Well 7D Mk II is probably announced later this year or very early 2013


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## awinphoto (Mar 12, 2012)

If you need a camera now to suit your needs, the 7D will deliver... If you can hold off 9-12 months or so, perhaps you may see a new 7d2 or 70D. Of course it's all hypothetical and such so take it all for what it's worth.


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## TehPenguin (Mar 12, 2012)

Whoah!
Thank you for this awesome discussion! So many interesting opinions. Info's. Thanks to you I know what I have to reconsider before buying anything.

I have two few more questions:
What's the refurbished thing all about? They give you an old, cleaned up canon?
What I also forgot to mention is that I am very interested in filming. 
Can you advise me in what I should get at the beginning? 
A good body/lens combo? 
Is any of my current lens any good for filming? 
Do lenses behave different, whether you film or shoot?


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## stinson222 (Mar 12, 2012)

Hi,, I had the same question over that last few months in anticipation of the 5D MIII. Two questions really, was it time for me to make the FF jump, and was the 5D MIII the camera to do that with.

Well,, as much as I would have loved the 5D,,, the price was out of reach. I bought the 7D a few weeks ago, and I LOVE it. I was shooting a Rebel XSi which served me well, but the 7D us a big jump in expanded capability.

I have included two shots,, I did not take these, a friend of mine did with a 7D and a 70-300L.
I think they "Pop" just fine.!!

The third shot of the airplane is mine.

I am still on a learning curve with the camera, but so far I am impressed. The FF jump will have to wait a bit, and I'm sure I will have that feeling of expanded capability again when it comes.. Dont be afraid of the 7D. It will serve you well until the FF market is within reach.


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## photophreek (Mar 12, 2012)

Boy, mention 7d in the thread and all the 7d haters come flocking like birds to a feeder telling everybody how they can't get a sharp shot because the focus system is crap. Well, better bone up on the 7d focus system and master it because the 5d III's focusing system is very similar but a whole lot more complicated. My 7d produces tack sharp pictures everytime and with all the fast glass - 50L, 35L, 85L II and so on. I don't understand the comment about the 7d and fast glass not producing sharp images. 

To answer the OP, get the 7d now. Learn and master the focusing system and when the 7d II arrives in a year, you'll be an expert using the 7d II. Better yet, download the 7d instruction manual and go to the pages describing the focus system and read through it. Once you've read it, if you are confused and don't understand it, get the 60d. If you are excited and can see the possibilities for better photographs, buy the 7d.

Happy shooting


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## jbwise01 (Mar 12, 2012)

Considering your investment in EF lenses... The 7D is a very capable cmaera... i would think for sports (motion) it would be a considerable upgrade. In all other areas you would gain flexibilaity and IQ.

On a related topic: 
I have a 5D II & a 60D. I have seriously considered purchasing the new Fuji X-pro 1 as my thrid digital body. Although it does not really do the same things as an SLR, and i would have to get all new lenses, im extremely impressed by its capability to meet or exceed the 5DII / maybe even 5DIII in low light, DR, and sharpness. Its kinda like a lieca m9 rangefinder and digital SLR had a baby. Its more of a walk around cam than a "work horse" camera, but considering the image quality, affordable quality lens', and lack of a low pass / aliasing filter.. its a worthwhile consideration for landscape, portrait, and walk around photography.


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## briansquibb (Mar 12, 2012)

KeithR said:


> adamkozlowski said:
> 
> 
> > A friend of mine, a long time pro & Canon shooter from LA, told me - don't buy the 7D, it's a dressed-up Rebel.
> ...



I know a pro that rates Sigma lens and shooting at F22. 

He is still stuck in the days of film


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## ruuneos (Mar 12, 2012)

For video some prime lens would be great like Sigma 85mm f1.4, but it's bit high priced lens.
Well all depends what kind of photography / filming you do and look lenses to match it. 

2013 on Jun-Mar 7D Mk II will be announced. *IF* Canon goes crazy it will be announced sooner.
6-12 Months


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## kenraw (Mar 12, 2012)

photophreek said:


> Boy, mention 7d in the thread and all the 7d haters come flocking like birds to a feeder telling everybody how they can't get a sharp shot because the focus system is crap. Well, better bone up on the 7d focus system and master it because the 5d III's focusing system is very similar but a whole lot more complicated. My 7d produces tack sharp pictures everytime and with all the fast glass - 50L, 35L, 85L II and so on. I don't understand the comment about the 7d and fast glass not producing sharp images.
> 
> To answer the OP, get the 7d now. Learn and master the focusing system and when the 7d II arrives in a year, you'll be an expert using the 7d II. Better yet, download the 7d instruction manual and go to the pages describing the focus system and read through it. Once you've read it, if you are confused and don't understand it, get the 60d. If you are excited and can see the possibilities for better photographs, buy the 7d.
> 
> Happy shooting



+1 
I have two 7D's and can advise that the AF is great, the main reason people complain about soft or misfocussed images is that they arn't using fast enough shutter speeds to freeze those 18mp cramed on an aps sensor. You need to use a bit higher than normal shutter speed to capture tack handheld images. But you certainly can get tack sharp images no problem. I agree with buying a 7D and get used to it because lets face it the 5dMK3 is nearly identical layout so when you eventually upgrade you will used to it.


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## photophreek (Mar 12, 2012)

kenraw - 

Couldn't agree more. In addition, let the IS settle on all those mp along with higher shutter speeds. I'm surprised that people who speculate on the features of the 7d II want more mp. That's the last thing I want as noise will be worse. Just improve the DR, better high and sub ISO 160 performance along with DIGIC 5 and I'll be happy. A multi-controller on the grip wouldn't hurt. 

For anyone contemplating upgrading to the 7d, it's also a good idea to shoot exclusively in RAW and process your files in LR or similar software.


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## erwinrm (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm just a hobbyist, but I was all set to upgrade to a FF camera, so I waited for the 5d mk3. However, the price is out of reach for me. I decided to wait a bit for the 5d mk2 prices to go down a bit, and to jump on a good deal if I see one. 

I almost pulled the trigger on a factory refurb, but I got this nasty voice inside my head asking me what the heck I think I was doing. My extended family's into a lot of sports--soccer, track, cycling, skiing, snow boarding, motocross, atv ice racing, uspsa matches...I shoot a lot of these events, plus I like to shoot birds, too. The 5d2's AF isn't suited for these types of events. Plus the FF won't help you if you're already zoomed in all the way, and you're still trying to get some reach.

Then there's this other voice that'll say -- but think about how great it will be in the basement studio. Low light capabilities are amazing, so indoor shooting shouldn't be as problematic.

:-\

I searched the web for 5d2 vs 7d and compared side by side pictures when available. Long story short, the 7d is more suited to most of what I shoot. I also didn't see it's IQ lacking even when compared to the 5d2. The 5d3 would be ideal, but I can't swing that. I still have FF envy, but it doesn't really bug me anymore. In the meantime, I got one of the best cameras available in my hand  

http://flic.kr/p/bGMY4p


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## OldSalt (May 2, 2012)

I own the 7D and it was through much research and shopping I settled on the 7D as an upgrade from my 450D (XSi). 

When I purchased it this past January with the 28-135 kit lens I paid $1052.00 out the door! I bought it at the Navy Exchange (Tax free) and was able to score it on sale then added Canon Rebate which had been ongoing at the time, and added 10% off because I opened the store credit with Zero interest for 12 months and you could not wipe the grin off my face. As a matter of fact the grin is still there! 

If I were to compare my 7D to my 450D there would be so much to say about so many areas that are better, but it boils down to this for me. 
1. Far better photographic quality no matter what situation I find myself in when compared to my 450D (which I still own) and afterall isn't that really the point? 
2. Far more efficient functional access (fewer steps, easier operation).
3. The 100% viewfinder and LED overlay graphics in the viewfinder are great for me. 

I would not even consider myself to be an amatuer yet. I take pictures, I enjoy photography and I am learning, (don't ever want to make a dime from it!) but this camera makes me look good, sometimes really good, and I like that. At least in photography the equipment does matter (at least at my level it seems). 

For me the biggest contender was the 60D but I am not into video, and it seems to me that the 60D went down in scale to more closely pair up to the "Rebel" series rather than going up towards the Pro series camera's and that is what brought me to the 7D ultimately.

I do have several what I consider "entry level" Canon lens that I play with and I am now trying to decide on the model of my first "L" series lens that should take my photography to a new level (hopefully). I have NO regrets with my purchase and I have bought the BG-E7 battery Grip and already owned a 430EX II flash which may also soon find itself in the company of another one  I am also methodically reviewing high quality substantial tripods since the two I own while minimally adequate do seem to be stretched to the limit to properly hold the 7D with BG and Flash with even my 55-250 IS zoom. 

Long and Short If you haven't already bought it, hurry up cuz you're mising out!!


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## Marsu42 (May 2, 2012)

OldSalt said:


> The 100% viewfinder and LED overlay graphics in the viewfinder are great for me.



I'm always puzzled about the 100% viewfinder thing, while being very valid in the analog days, on digital I can simply crop if there is frame I don't want - and I often do anyway to rotate a bit, so there is no additional work involved. Canon uses this as a marketing argument, but I actually like my little-less than 100% viewfinder on my 60d very much because it has saved me many shots very I mindlessly framed too close.



OldSalt said:


> For me the biggest contender was the 60D but I am not into video, and it seems to me that the 60D went down in scale to more closely pair up to the "Rebel" series rather than going up towards the Pro series camera's and that is what brought me to the 7D ultimately. Long and Short If you haven't already bought it, hurry up cuz you're mising out!!



The 60d vs 7d argument is too complex to but it into "video or not", its just very individual if the added features outweigh the increased price & weight and the worse iq (banding) of the 7d in comparison to the newer 18mp models. And the 60d runs magic lantern, which is a killer feature to me. I'd advise anyone too really look into the difference, try how the body feels and then decide on this alone - both are good cameras, so of course users are happy.


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## OldSalt (May 3, 2012)

Everyone will be loyal to the gear they own and I understand that but it seems apparent to me that while the 7D offered very capable video technology it tended to offer better still photography features that set it apart from the 60D for me. The awesome AF system and best in class FPS were all contributors for me in making the choice of the 7D over the 60D. Maybe I should have been more specific but what I meant was that the 7D appeared to me to offer greater capability for still photography which is why I was upgrading (XSi/450D was the last Rebel to not offer video) I felt that the fact that the screen articulates on the 60D seemed gimmicky to me rather than of any real practical use (in my case) since I do most of my reviews off camera on a hi-res computer monitor and don't shoot video where it would likely be of greatest use nor did the screen resolution hamper my choice for the same reason. 

With regards to the viewfinder comment my thinking was that with awareness that your camera employs a 100% viewfinder which can super impose the two-way level there should be no reason to "mindlessly" frame your subject, but that is probably attributable to me being the less than amateur guy I am!

I read many reviews and opinions on the IQ of both bodies and it seemed to depend on which one you read as to which one seemed to have what always amounted to a "negligible" difference either way. Certainly too small to be considered when not employing "L" class lenses for sure and the low-light advantage remains with the 7D, and for me I need all the help I can get!

The weather resistance advantage that the 7D has over the 60D was also important though admittedly not at purchase, it was only afterward when I was caught in a rain shower at our local botanical gardens while shooting with a buddy that it proved invaluable, since my 7D came through the wetting down flawlessly while my friends 50D did not.

Since my interest remains firmly in the still photography realm "Magic Lantern" is of little interest to me at this time though who’s to say that when it becomes available for the 7D I might give it some thought.

Lastly I couldn't ignore the unbelievable low price I paid for the 7D. It was cheaper than what you can purchase a 60D for today on Amazon.com! (When you include a kit lens as I did with my 7D)


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