# Canon officially discontinues a lot more EF lenses



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 8, 2021)

> Canon has officially discontinued more EF lenses. Some of them are already discontinued, others will be discontinued sometime in 2021.
> Below are the additions to the Recently Discontinued EF lens list that I am constantly updating.
> Discontinued EF & EF-S Lenses:
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


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## avoidingconcrete (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


Exactly. I was fairly fortunate to start getting more into photography as the great RF migration began, so nearly all of my lenses were refurbs or gently used for half off. I can't believe the prices people are paying for the RFs new!


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## SteveC (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...



Good point!

Not sure what I'd want to buy, though, even at a (hypothetical) fifty percent discount. I just haven't found myself in situations where a prime is what I want, even though I own a few. (With the prominent exception of my coin photography, for which my 100mm f2/8 (non L) is the Power Tool. From my cold, dead hands...)



avoidingconcrete said:


> Exactly. I was fairly fortunate to start getting more into photography as the great RF migration began, so nearly all of my lenses were refurbs or gently used for half off. I can't believe the prices people are paying for the RFs new!


I did pay full boat for the 15-35, but I got the 24-105 L cheap as a refurb (or alternatively, I got the RP it came with cheap). Those are the only two RF lenses I own. And given that I also have to fit EF-M cameras, I probably won't be buying any more for quite some time. 

EF, on the other hand, would be an option the next time I have lens-type GAS.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Good point!
> 
> Not sure what I'd want to buy, though, even at a (hypothetical) fifty percent discount. I just haven't found myself in situations where a prime is what I want, even though I own a few. (With the prominent exception of my coin photography, for which my 100mm f2/8 (non L) is the Power Tool. From my cold, dead hands...)


Oh I'll be spending my pennies on what I consider to be bargain EF lenses as more and more RF ones roll out. I'll get an EF 35mm f1.4 L, and if some work I am starting this weekend has promise I will be looking to get the EF 200-400 f4. Another photographer I greatly respect is using the 135 f2 a lot and they are cheap as chips anyway.

I do still plan to get an R5 but the lenses I'd want to use on it are my TS-E's and the macro anyway, so I don't plan on getting any dedicated RF lenses.


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## H. Jones (Apr 8, 2021)

The funny thing is, these lenses line up almost perfectly with the expected RF roadmap for the next year or two. Definitely validates that lens roadmap.


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## MartinF. (Apr 8, 2021)

The EOS system was "Dawn of an era" when it was released in 1987 - and is has been celebrated many times since. At 25 years anniversary , when they passed the 100 million and recently 150 million manufactured lenses, and many times before that.
Now we a facing an end of an era for the EF mount. 
I do feel a bit sad, that there no place for the EF mount in the future except for a used market.
Wonder when they kill off EF / EF-S mount camera production? Probably within the next few years. Not many will buy into a dying system, even than that it will be in use many years from now. Glad I have my very first EOS 400D and my 5D still, good memory with those - and my still in use 6D, and quite new 5DmkIV.
I do also have my first SLR a AE-1P and a few FD lenses.
Now I am facing a shift in technology once more....
I will probably jump to RF not sooner, but later...


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## Maximilian (Apr 8, 2021)

A little bit earlier and faster than I expected.




MartinF. said:


> ... I will probably jump to RF not sooner, but later...


Same here.
An RP successor, as compact with IBIS and better Sensor could make me change my mind.


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## John Wilde (Apr 8, 2021)

Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


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## Avenger 2.0 (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


Or you are going to pay more second hand for the discontinued lens than it's new price (like the first gen 24-105mm f4 L).


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## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


What utter ridiculousness. They are going to look after us for at least 7 years from now, after that we have third party support. Canon are moving on, that is fine, you can choose to move on with them or live in the past, at this point I am content to live in the past but don't feel any bitterness or rejection from Canon at all.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> Or you are going to pay more second hand for the discontinued lens than it's new price (like the first gen 24-105mm f4 L).


Why would I want a 24-105 f4? Wait and see what happens to the price of the superb TS-E 24 II when an overpriced TS-R 24 comes out. I can't wait!


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## RMac (Apr 8, 2021)

Notably missing any EF-M lenses...


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## JordanCS13 (Apr 8, 2021)

End of an era with the EF 135mm f/2L finally being retired. April 1996 to April 2021 - a 25 year run as a 'current' lens in the lineup. Still works well on today's cameras, though I went for the Sigma 135mm f/1.8, which is one of the few lenses that can really show the 135L to be an old design. (Sigma 135mm is one of the top lenses I've ever used, out of hundreds).


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## Adrianf (Apr 8, 2021)

Not much scope left for any new 1DX mkiii owners. Does that mean that the R1 is closer than we think?


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## Sporgon (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> but don't feel any bitterness or rejection from Canon at all.


That’s because you were immunised against future rejections from Canon in the FD days  However, I agree with you, bring on the bargains !


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## Sporgon (Apr 8, 2021)

With this latest news Canon have really laid their cards on the table; not only will there never be a 5DV, it looks like there won’t be much of anything dslr. 
I’ll be interested to see what Nikon do now. I’m too heavily invested in Canon to change and with all the EF bargains that will be coming there are too many goodies to look forward too, but even so it will be interesting to watch the market.


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## [email protected] (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


Makes sense in a way to move all attention on to RF mount - hope we see a 24-70 F4 RF L IS Macro in RF and these 3 were my favourite EF Lenses 24-105 F4 L IS, 24-70 F4 Maco L IS and 70-200 F4 L IS.


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## Joules (Apr 8, 2021)

Dare I say it?

EF is *******.

I do wonder if moving forward with this was always the intention or if the pandemic accelerated things. Also curious that it's just EF and EF-S but no EF-M glass as of yet. Given how dark some see the fate of that line, I would have expected to see it on the chopping block too. Perhaps not dead yet?


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## Sporgon (Apr 8, 2021)

Joules said:


> Dare I say it?
> 
> EF is *******.
> 
> I do wonder if moving forward with this was always the intention or if the pandemic accelerated things.


When Canon decided we would all be better off with the EF mount customers had a choice to either go with them or leave. History would probably suggest that Canon made the right choice. Canon clearly think we are now better off with mirrorless, both in photographic terms and rewarding their shareholders, but this time we can at least continue to use our old EF lenses without any penalty. I always thought that the Rebel range would be chopped in favour of mirrorless as Canon made no attempt to improve the slr experience with these cameras, continuing to use the inferior pentamirror to the end. To be honest the slr experience with the higher end pentaprism cameras has become corrupted compered to what it used to be, without built in diopter adjustments, LCD overlays, AF arrays and translucent mirrors the view through my old manual focus film cameras such as the Nikon FM, Pentax ME/MX is so much clearer than anything we have today, and the medium format Pentax 6x7 is in another league again. But even so, after using the EVF cameras it is always refreshing for me to return to a DSLR.

EF-m is an interesting one given rumours of its demise because clearly EF-s is on its way out and I believe that camera manufacturers will struggle to sell the 'FF is best' message to many keen photographers who don't habitually shoot in very low light handheld or want razor thin dof. I was interesting to see that here in the UK in our prestigious 'Landscape Photographer of the Year' competition which attracts about 40,000 entries ( !! how DO you judge that ??), and has a £10,000 first prize, was won by a rather pleasing picture taken on a crop sensor.


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## cayenne (Apr 8, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


I think it is pretty evident that there are to be no more Canon DSLR cameras.
To me, that writing is pretty clearly on the wall.


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## cayenne (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why would I want a 24-105 f4? Wait and see what happens to the price of the superb TS-E 24 II when an overpriced TS-R 24 comes out. I can't wait!


Yup.

I have ALWAYS wanted to play with the Canon TS lenses.

If/When the price starts to fall on the EF version, I plan to grab one. And with that TS lens, from what I have seen on YT videos, it will be dual purpose fo rme, it will work on my %d3, it will adapt to whichever R camera I get in the future....and, it will also cover the larger Digital medium format camera sensor I have.

Hell, I find half the fun with mirrorless is adapting lenses everywhere and manual works for that. I might even try it out adapted to my M10M which is all manual anyway.

The TS lenses in EF mount would be GREAT lenses to hop on and they will be viable for all the foreseeable future I can think of on mirrorless cameras.

cayenne


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## cayenne (Apr 8, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> That’s because you were immunised against future rejections from Canon in the FD days  However, I agree with you, bring on the bargains !


The irony is...the canon FD lenses are well worth looking at again, in this day of adapting vintage lenses to mirrorless cameras.

You can make good use of those old FD lenses now....I'm on the hunt for them while decent bargains can be found. From what I see, some of those, like the 85mm f/1.2 are still extremely optically viable on high MP digital sensors....?


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## David - Sydney (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


I'm not sure that the discontinued lenses will be bargains - either new or second hand. Where there is not a direct RF replacement eg Canon EF 180mm f/3.5L USM Macro, they fill a niche that is not catered for.
Of course, where people upgrade to a RF replacement then there should be more in the second hand market. My experience hunting for a good 2nd hand EF100-400mm for a reasonable price was unsuccessful so I ended up getting a RF100-500mm on special new.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 8, 2021)

2 lenses strike me as being unusual...
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM would suit a R7 as a low cost option for a wide angle crop sensor on EF/R mount adaptor
Canon EF 180mm f/3.5L USM Macro replacement in R mount isn't in the list and fills a niche that other camera manufacturers don't have especially as the *Nikon* AF Micro-*NIKKOR* 200mm F/4D is also discontinued


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## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 8, 2021)

I'm very surprised this is happening so quickly. With the release of the 1DX III so recent, I had assumed Canon would start doing this in 3-4 years from now. (i.e. a full DSLR product cycle after their last DSLR body).

I was thinking of selling my 135 F2L... but now, I may just keep it as a momento of my EF days an for the odd chance I ever use it on the R5. With the 85 1.2L being so good... I haven't used it in a very long time...


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## peters (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


I think size and weight is a very good reason to switch lenses to newer ones. Sharpness is also often better and AF is even faster (though all my EF L lenses work fine with the adapter).
But size and weight is realy a point. My 70-200 f2,8 is quite big and heavy compared to these new lenses. Also you dont need the adapter so overall size of camera+lense gets smaller. These are the true benefits from mirrorless. I hope to travel more after covid, so I would appreciate any smaller lenses. The 100-500mm RF looks stunning - great performance and a small and light design...


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## peters (Apr 8, 2021)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I'm very surprised this is happening so quickly. With the release of the 1DX III so recent, I had assumed Canon would start doing this in 3-4 years from now. (i.e. a full DSLR product cycle after their last DSLR body).
> 
> I was thinking of selling my 135 F2L... but now, I may just keep it as a momento of my EF days an for the odd chance I ever use it on the R5. With the 85 1.2L being so good... I haven't used it in a very long time...


I am also surprised that they discontinue lenses BEFORE they even announced (yet alone actualy deliver) equivalent lenses (with equivalent focal length and aperture)....


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## peters (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why would I want a 24-105 f4? Wait and see what happens to the price of the superb TS-E 24 II when an overpriced TS-R 24 comes out. I can't wait!


Whats your experience with the TS-E 24? 
I have the 11-24 and I wonder if the TS 24 would bring me a notable benefit. The image circle the 11mm cover can be pretty much used to get the same straight lines, if I just point the camera straight...


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## dwarven (Apr 8, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> That’s because you were immunised against future rejections from Canon in the FD days  However, I agree with you, bring on the bargains !



Are we really going to see big bargains? I hope so, but supply for these will probably drop faster than demand. They are cheaper than their RF counterparts already, and they work as well or better on RF bodies with the adapter as they do on EF bodies natively. I'd love some lens bargains as much as anyone else, but they are the slowest aging consumer electronics products you can buy.


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## Skux (Apr 9, 2021)

EF-S lenses being discontinued and yet nothing in the pipeline for entry-level and crop sensor shooters. Is Canon going to offer anything for this price point or are they really banking on the entire vlogger and student/casual photographer market disappearing altogether?


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## jd7 (Apr 9, 2021)

Joules said:


> Dare I say it?
> 
> EF is *******.
> 
> I do wonder if moving forward with this was always the intention or if the pandemic accelerated things. Also curious that it's just EF and EF-S but no EF-M glass as of yet. Given how dark some see the fate of that line, I would have expected to see it on the chopping block too. Perhaps not dead yet?


I've never understood the rumours of the demise of EF-M. I'm just speculating, of course, but I don't see the end of EF/EF-s having any relevance to EF-M. It seems to me that Canon's intention for EF-M was always for it to be first and foremost a small and light system, designed to appeal to consumers who wanted something better than a phone but who didn't want to carry a "big camera" and who probably didn't want to spend a whole lot of money on it, and also perhaps as second camera system for enthusiasts and pros who want something better than a phone as a "carry everywhere" camera when they don't want to lug their bigger and heavier gear. As such, Canon never tried to make EF-M a system which had options to do everything you could possibly think of (eg no long macro lenses, no super telephoto focal length lenses, no tilt-shift lenses, etc) and never marketed EF-M as a replacement for EF-s. I don't see how the replacement of EF/EF-s with RF has much relevance to the niche that EF-M is intended to fill. I also think the people saying the EF-M system needs this or that (more fast primes, etc) or the system is dead are missing the point of the EF-M system. If those are the sorts of lenses someone wants to use, the EF-M system is not the right choice. That doens't mean it's not the right choice for other people though, of course. Further, even though RF and EF-m have different mounts, I assume a lot of technology (eg AF systems) still can be relatively easily shared between the systems. (For that matter, I assume DSLRs and MILCs can also share quite a bit of technology too. Nevertheless, I assume (without knowing) it's a bit easier to share tech between RF and EF-m since both are mirrorless systems.) So, personally, I don't see why Canon would discontinue the EF-M system unless they have decided the size of the market niche that system is intended to cater to has shrunk too much. As long as that is not the case, I expect Canon will continue to develop the EF-M system (albeit not in the way, and not at the speed, some people seem to think Canon should).

I think the more interesting thing is whether Canon will introduce APS-C RF mount cameras to replace the lower priced DSLRs (eg Rebel line), and if so whether Canon develops a line of lenses specifically for those cameras. My guess is that comes down to whether Canon sees a continuing market for cameras at that price point which isn't already sufficiently addressed by EF-M, and if Canon does see a continuing market there whether Canon can make a full-frame sensor cheaply enough now that it can profitably supply that market with full-frame gear. It seems possible to me that is where gear such as the RP and RF 35 f/1.8 IS and RF 50 f/1.8 lenses may be pointing, and I imagine it may be more efficient from Canon's point of view to make more of that sort of gear than to create more product lines for it to manufacture. If that is the way Canon goes, it still leaves a question in my mind whether Canon might introduce an an APS-C RF mount camera specifially for the reach limited crowd who would value a high pixel density APS-C sensor (and be willing to pay for it). However, Canon could do that without creating a whole range of APS-C RF cameras (potentially one model might be sufficient for that market), and without creating any lenses specifically for APS-C on the basis that anyone buying that camera is also the type of buyer who will spend the money on lenses like the RF 100-500 and the RF supertelephotos which Canon is about to release. If I had to take a guess, I think there is a good chance that is the way Canon will go, ie one APS-C sensor RF mount camera for the reach limited crowd, and otherwise the RF system will be full-frame, with Canon supplying the "lower end" of the ILC market (whatever exactly that will be in the future) via EF-m and via relatively small and light RF gear along the lines of the RP and the RF 35 f/1.8 IS and RF 50 f/1.8 lenses.


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## AEWest (Apr 9, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


I disagree. They realize that they have to pick one path (RF) and not two for the same market. They cannot afford to compete with themselves as well as Sony and Nikon.


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## Mr Majestyk (Apr 9, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


I doubt the 500 f/4L II will ever be a bargain LOL, but I won't be selling mine until I see new gen lightweight <2.5kg release from anyone, be it Canon, Sony or Nikon, which will no doubt be at least 50% dearer than the EF price.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 9, 2021)

I think that we can agree that 4 lens mounts is too much for Canon to support. EF-m aren't going away soon. EF-S probably don't have a lot of profit on them (my guess) and using up production line capacity that could be used for RF. 

Discontinuing these lenses doesn't mean end-of-sale. There would still be inventory ready to sell but not necessarily in all resellers so new buyers may need to shop around. End-of-support of 2027 (and then 3rd party support) for L lenses - especially big whites - would be sufficient to cover any migration path for future R mount buyers.

What is missing are:
- replacement lenses where it makes sense (maybe not a replacement 180mm macro) and 
- a low cost R mount body - perhaps with APS-C sensor ie under the RP and perhaps replacing it to cover the current Rebel buyers. 
I don't believe that the R7 will be cheap. 
EF-M/Mxx bodies will remain in the line up for some time to come. New M bodies/lenses may be a different story.


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## SteveC (Apr 9, 2021)

Skux said:


> EF-S lenses being discontinued and yet nothing in the pipeline for entry-level and crop sensor shooters. Is Canon going to offer anything for this price point or are they really banking on the entire vlogger and student/casual photographer market disappearing altogether?



In this price point? You get the EF-M. It's both entry level and crop sensor.

I don't know what they say to someone who ISN'T entry level and still nevertheless shoots crop sensor, at this point. But if you're going to conflate the two, EF-M is their answer.


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## SnowMiku (Apr 9, 2021)

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - The Smartphone market has probably reduced the sales of this and EF-S lenses in general, most smartphones today now come with Ultra-wide lenses which are pretty decent. I own this lens and use it for night photography.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM - I was thinking of selling this one day as I also have the Non-L Nano USM version but never got around to it, I think I'll just hold on to it now.

I wonder if they will discontinue the Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens anytime soon? I think it will be one of the last to go since it's so popular.


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## Bert63 (Apr 9, 2021)

Sign me up for a half-price 500mm f4.


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## Chaitanya (Apr 9, 2021)

EF-S 35mm is a surprise, hopefully Canon will launch equivalent RF lens sooner along with crop camera. EF-M was treated like a stepchild to begin with.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 9, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> I doubt the 500 f/4L II will ever be a bargain LOL, but I won't be selling mine until I see new gen lightweight <2.5kg release from anyone, be it Canon, Sony or Nikon, which will no doubt be at least 50% dearer than the EF price.


That’s because you own one and you think it has more value than it does. Whilst big whites traditionally hold their value well there are realignments in value whenever there is an update or change. You might not think your 500 f4 is comparable to a 100-500 f4.5-7.1, but iso performance is way better now than it was and people have options and most who own R series cameras would buy the RF zoom over the EF prime.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 9, 2021)

peters said:


> Whats your experience with the TS-E 24?
> I have the 11-24 and I wonder if the TS 24 would bring me a notable benefit. The image circle the 11mm cover can be pretty much used to get the same straight lines, if I just point the camera straight...


I have the 11-24, the TS-E 17 and TS-E50 that I use with 1.4 and 2x TC’s. I rarely use the 11-24 except for events and sports. If I use a tripod I use a TS-E, they are much ‘better’ than anything else if you can be bothered with them.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 9, 2021)

peters said:


> I think size and weight is a very good reason to switch lenses to newer ones. Sharpness is also often better and AF is even faster (though all my EF L lenses work fine with the adapter).
> But size and weight is realy a point. My 70-200 f2,8 is quite big and heavy compared to these new lenses. Also you dont need the adapter so overall size of camera+lense gets smaller. These are the true benefits from mirrorless. I hope to travel more after covid, so I would appreciate any smaller lenses. The 100-500mm RF looks stunning - great performance and a small and light design...


Not in my opinion. My gear has to pay for itself, a few ounces at the cost of $1,000’s doesn’t cut it. Sharpness is vastly overrated and none of my current lenses lack it. AF of my current setup is only limited by me.

For some people yes, for me and I suspect quite a few others, the cost of transitioning from EF to RF simply isn’t worth it at this point.


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## pape2 (Apr 9, 2021)

I guess 400mm DO was too cheap ,they want rather sell same weighting 500mm DO for 15k


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## Viggo (Apr 9, 2021)

How long does Canon typically offer repair and support for discontinued lenses?

I too think the prices of used EF lenses will go up. That has always been the case where I live.

with arguments like “here’s what the RF version cost, which doesn’t even fit your camera, THIS is the only option, pay up!” And people know that. “I rather buy a bit overpriced now than very overpriced or not at all, later”.


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## koenkooi (Apr 9, 2021)

Viggo said:


> How long does Canon typically offer repair and support for discontinued lenses?
> [..]


Generally 7 years, provided the replacement parts are available.


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## Avenger 2.0 (Apr 9, 2021)

RMac said:


> Notably missing any EF-M lenses...


Wish there was any update on the EF-M. I'm selling my EF-M lenses at the moment because of the uncertainty. With EF-(S) lenses you can at least use them on other body's with an adapter. Maybe they will release another body like the M50 ii that is just a firmware update. Looks to me like EF-M will die a quite dead.


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## Avenger 2.0 (Apr 9, 2021)

Skux said:


> EF-S lenses being discontinued and yet nothing in the pipeline for entry-level and crop sensor shooters. Is Canon going to offer anything for this price point or are they really banking on the entire vlogger and student/casual photographer market disappearing altogether?


I'm hoping the same. But looking at the prices of RF lenses and R body's, I'm pretty sure the price will be way higher (like double) then before. But we will see crop R body's someday.


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## Exploreshootshare (Apr 9, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


I think Canon was forced to concentrate their capacities on RF lenses due to the COVID related production crises. Therefore, they are now discontinuing EF Lenses and will closely monitor the reaction of consumers. Canon officials have officially stated that "if the market demands they will develop and produce new EF lenses". So they are now testing the market. I imagine that Canon will reply if...
1. Nikon continues to sell DSLR in a profitable way 
2. the prices of second-hand EF lense skyrocket 
3. Pro photographers demand EF lenses...

So, I think it is not about showing contempt, it is more about testing the market and finding out how serious the consumers are about EF and DSLR. Since they were kind a forced to do that anyway it's just making the best out of a bad situation. 

I'm excited to see what will happen.


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## tron (Apr 9, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> I doubt the 500 f/4L II will ever be a bargain LOL, but I won't be selling mine until I see new gen lightweight <2.5kg release from anyone, be it Canon, Sony or Nikon, which will no doubt be at least 50% dearer than the EF price.


I agree. I even secured a new 5DsR to keep it company (and I am not selling my 5D4). Also my 500PF works superby...


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## AlanF (Apr 9, 2021)

I've been debating with myself whether to sell my 400mm DO II. It's a superb lens but as I get older it's relatively light weight has got above my comfortable carrying zone and I am afraid age is a one way process. This discontinuation has tipped the balance so yesterday I decided it's going. It could well go up in price as the RF equivalents will be very expensive but I don't like unused equipment hanging around when others would make good use of it.


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## TMHKR (Apr 9, 2021)

Why is EF-S 55-250 being discontinued? It's quite a popular lens among crop tele-shooters


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## Quarkcharmed (Apr 9, 2021)

Managed to sell my old 5DIV at a decent price before this announcement. With the lenses being phased out, the used EF cameras will go down in price too. Maybe not right now, but sooner than we think.


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## tron (Apr 9, 2021)

TMHKR said:


> Why is EF-S 55-250 being discontinued? It's quite a popular lens among crop tele-shooters


I wonder the same for 15-85. It is one of the best crop lenses for general purpose mid-range shooting.


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## Sporgon (Apr 9, 2021)

If this discontinuation of the EF lenses continues a pace, and the current ones that have been chopped suggests that it will, then it will only be a matter of time before cameras like the 5DIV, 6DII etc are discontinued. Just looking at it from a retail business point of view, these business sell a fair few EF lenses, and there are millions of bodies out there. Many people who can afford it like to buy new, and that avenue to EF ownership is going to be cut off, thus the retailers won't have the ability to sell these lenses anymore, but rather be relying on people switching to the RF mount, and buying RF lenses. So to sell the same amount of new RF lenses as they were EF there are going to have to be a hell of a lot of RF mount cameras sold.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Apr 9, 2021)

The only plus side here is that it'll be much easier to browse your favourite camera shop website.


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## SnowMiku (Apr 9, 2021)

I'm glad I got into DSLR photography back in 2014, I've been able to buy most of my EF lenses used for about half the price of new. If anyone wants a new DSLR I would suggest to buy it sooner rather then later.

It's good that we have the EF-RF and the EF-EF-M adapter, so everyone can use EF lenses in future bodies until they stop making the EF-RF adapter. I wonder if they will discontinue this adapter in a few years to force people on RF? Any thoughts on this?
If you have the adapter you can keep using EF until the RF mount gets replaced which is probably decades away. So EF will still live on in a way for a very long time.


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## Billybob (Apr 9, 2021)

Lol, I think that I've been a bit ahead of the game having gotten rid of several of these lenses (10-22, 70-300L, and 135L) ages ago. I still have the 55-250 primarily because it would be a greater hassle trying to sell it than to just leave this tiny lens in storage. I will keep and continue to use my 100L 2.8 and 24-70L lenses primarily because I see little benefit to upgrading these, for me, limited use lenses.


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## Czardoom (Apr 9, 2021)

Maybe somebody has asked this question - if so, I missed it - but what do you mean by "officially?" Do we have an actual statement from Canon? Do we have actual sellers reporting that Canon has told them these lenses are being discontinued? Or are you just speculating that "Sold out" or "Unavailable" means discontinued? That seems to be the most important question that should be answered.

If these lenses are being discontinued, it seems obvious that the reason is that sales numbers are way down or non-existent, regardless of how popular the lens might have been at one time. My guess is that those buying the latest DSLR's (The 1DX III and the 5D IV) are users that were already in the FF system and not buying new EF lenses in any substantial number. Canon would have that info, and clearly they will use the time and facilities they have to produce what is in demand now - and that is RF lenses. Would you schedule manufacturing time making EF lenses when your R5 and R6 Cameras are selling beyond expectations and lenses are on backorder everywhere?


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## EduPortas (Apr 9, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> When Canon decided we would all be better off with the EF mount customers had a choice to either go with them or leave. History would probably suggest that Canon made the right choice.



Absolutely. But there's a difference.

Canon EF lenses are fully compatible with both DSLRs and their older 35mm EOS film systems, something you can't replicate with their new RF system unless you use an adapter (I prefer not to).

That's a big leap for millions of camera owners that have invested a ton in EF lenses. It's not as smooth as the previous technological change.

I actually expect Canon APS-C cameras and lenses to *gain* value. There's simply nothing to compete with them in Canonland once you factor in their bargain price when buying them used and the HUGE selection of lenses available.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Apr 9, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Maybe somebody has asked this question - if so, I missed it - but what do you mean by "officially?" Do we have an actual statement from Canon? Do we have actual sellers reporting that Canon has told them these lenses are being discontinued? Or are you just speculating that "Sold out" or "Unavailable" means discontinued? That seems to be the most important question that should be answered.
> 
> If these lenses are being discontinued, it seems obvious that the reason is that sales numbers are way down or non-existent, regardless of how popular the lens might have been at one time. My guess is that those buying the latest DSLR's (The 1DX III and the 5D IV) are users that were already in the FF system and not buying new EF lenses in any substantial number. Canon would have that info, and clearly they will use the time and facilities they have to produce what is in demand now - and that is RF lenses. Would you schedule manufacturing time making EF lenses when your R5 and R6 Cameras are selling beyond expectations and lenses are on backorder everywhere?




I don't know how official it is. But one of the discontinued lenses is the 24-70 f/4.0 L which is rather popular for people just getting started as it covers a good range and has a macro mode. Though that market are likely buying the RF 24-105 f/4.0 as part of a kit with their new R/R6 body.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Apr 9, 2021)

pape2 said:


> I guess 400mm DO was too cheap ,they want rather sell same weighting 500mm DO for 15k



I am not 100% sure, but I recall to some level of certainty that the DO and PF lens elements are hard or take a long time to make and that is why at least Nikon build 300s and 500s in alternating batches. Perhaps Canon has to free up the DO glass for new RF lenses?

Come to think of it, is this perhaps a reason for the 600 and 800 being f/11? Or even some attempt to scale up DO glass production for the big whites.


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## pape2 (Apr 9, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I am not 100% sure, but I recall to some level of certainty that the DO and PF lens elements are hard or take a long time to make and that is why at least Nikon build 300s and 500s in alternating batches. Perhaps Canon has to free up the DO glass for new RF lenses?
> 
> Come to think of it, is this perhaps a reason for the 600 and 800 being f/11? Or even some attempt to scale up DO glass production for the big whites.


Yep they could have only one production line for big fresnell lenses , 500mm lense is prolly bit larger so cant produce both same time.
RF 600 and 800mm fresnel lenses are same diameter maybe they can be made on same production line?


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## slclick (Apr 9, 2021)

EF lenses will continue to work and produce fantastic images (in the right hands) no matter what follows. G.A.S. infected shooters may chose to disagree. The used market is a wonderful thing for new and aspiring photographers on a budget and the RF lineup has done an incredible service to businesses such as Keh.com and the like. It's a great time for gear choices and pricepoints.


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## scottkinfw (Apr 9, 2021)

I won't part with my 300 2.8 IS II anytime soon. I love the lens, and for what I paid, I won't sell it at a fireside. I just can't see dumping it just to spend 5 or 6K for an RF version when I can just put on the adapter!


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## AlanF (Apr 9, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I am not 100% sure, but I recall to some level of certainty that the DO and PF lens elements are hard or take a long time to make and that is why at least Nikon build 300s and 500s in alternating batches. Perhaps Canon has to free up the DO glass for new RF lenses?
> 
> Come to think of it, is this perhaps a reason for the 600 and 800 being f/11? Or even some attempt to scale up DO glass production for the big whites.


The f/11 lenses are clearly dirt cheap to make, relatively speaking, and provide a nice entry for long telephotos - they are about a tenth of the initial price of the 400mm DO II. Canon's growth strategy is to open up new markets as the old ones are just treading water at best and mainly declining. The first R series weren't as good as the best Canon DSLRs but the R5 and R6 have leapt ahead and so Canon has the ammunition to make us want to buy RF lenses for them. They don't have unlimited production resources so it's goodbye to EF.


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## Stuart (Apr 9, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


It might seem off that you can't keep buying new lenses for old camera bodies. But lenses seem to outlast camera bodies so its likely reputable second hand and old stock options would be around for a good few years yet. 

Also Canon does want up to follow them up the RF route, in the same way they had people follow them in the last mount change.

Not many manufacturers keep making spares forever for old devices. Especially when 3rd party lenses are also very good options. 

I'm still on EF, but don't want to spend on EF glass before I get a suitably priced/performing RF body - Happyish to save money in the middle ground for now and dream of my possible RF future one day.


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## Sporgon (Apr 9, 2021)

EduPortas said:


> Absolutely. But there's a difference.
> 
> Canon EF lenses are fully compatible with both DSLRs and their older 35mm EOS film systems, something you can't replicate with their new RF system unless you use an adapter (I prefer not to).
> 
> ...


I’m guessing you’re maybe not old enough to remember the FD to EF change in 1987. That time there was no way to adapt to the new system, and although Canon had made a serious stab at the ‘pro’ market with the F-1 it took them two years after the introduction of EF before they offered a ‘pro’ EF body in the form of the EOS 1. 

Yes it’s true that even the latest (and indeed third party) EF lenses work perfectly on the EOS film bodies from the 80s & 90s which is a testament to the original design. 

Given how many higher end EF DSLRs are out there I suppose it is possible that used prices might go up if people still want DSLRs and new lenses are not available. Canon are certainly banking on a sea chance to RF and actually appear to be forcing the issue. Maybe this will breath new life into Pentax sales as that company has stated it will continue with DSLRs. I see Nikon as the influencer here now and it will be interesting to see what they do next regarding a D850 replacement.


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## Dragon (Apr 9, 2021)

OK Canon, you are killing the EF-s 15-85, so let's see an EF-M replacement. That is a fine lens.


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## EduPortas (Apr 9, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> I’m guessing you’re maybe not old enough to remember the FD to EF change in 1987.



Oh I remember well, my friend. But I didn't cite that example because it was not relevant to this situation: we have_ some degree_ _of compatibility_ between EF and RF systems but it's not ideal. Otherwise, Canon wouldn't be forcing this change.

There's some overlap between this two systems and that is where I expect DSLR APS-C users to carve and interesting niche, specially considering Canon have all but given up on the EOS-M experiment.

It's astounding that even after seven years Canon have no real substitute for ye old 7DM2. So there's a niche right there.


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## zim (Apr 9, 2021)

So all my lenses are now officially discontinued

All my FDs
All my EFs

   

Funny thing is they are all still working! Yay


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## Ozarker (Apr 9, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


Jeepers, dude. It is no more a sign of contempt than Ford discontinuing the Model T. I mean, you got what you paid for when you purchased. Which lens, exactly, were you saving for that made the list? So many conspiracy mavens around these days. Canon had contempt for customers, so terminates a product line because Canon hates the customer? Get real.


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## Maximilian (Apr 9, 2021)

Joules said:


> EF is *******.


Skimming too fast through all the posts I almost missed that


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## bergstrom (Apr 9, 2021)

wow, cancel culture and now this.


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## dtaylor (Apr 9, 2021)

peters said:


> I think size and weight is a very good reason to switch lenses to newer ones. Sharpness is also often better and AF is even faster (though all my EF L lenses work fine with the adapter).



Whether or not an RF lens improves on the IQ of an EF version seems to depend on when the last EF update appeared. The super fast primes? Much sharper. The L zooms? IQ is pretty much the same, though Canon is trying to add a new feature where ever they can (100-500 instead of 400; IS; collapsing design).


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## dtaylor (Apr 9, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Not in my opinion. My gear has to pay for itself, a few ounces at the cost of $1,000’s doesn’t cut it. Sharpness is vastly overrated and none of my current lenses lack it. AF of my current setup is only limited by me.
> 
> For some people yes, for me and I suspect quite a few others, the cost of transitioning from EF to RF simply isn’t worth it at this point.



For stills there is nothing lacking in my current kit. There are lenses I would like to add but there's nothing I can't do, they would just be fun to have. What's lacking is opportunity to use my equipment.

Video is another story, but if I were to add an R6 I would not be adding RF lenses. I would be using my EF lenses via adapter, possibly one of the filtered adapters.


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## dtaylor (Apr 9, 2021)

Viggo said:


> I too think the prices of used EF lenses will go up. That has always been the case where I live.



It will depend on the lens in question. But I bet some lenses will spike in price, at least initially.


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## dtaylor (Apr 9, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> I think Canon was forced to concentrate their capacities on RF lenses due to the COVID related production crises.



COVID has had multiple impacts and supply chain issues might be the least important. Camera sales were already in steep decline before the pandemic thanks to cell phones dominating the low end. (The impact on P&S and entry level ILCs is obvious. But there's also the fact that many people who stick to their phones will never get 'the itch' to treat photography as a serious hobby and move up.) Camera sales have now practically collapsed due to the economic impact. I can't imagine lens sales are doing any better.

Now add the people dumping equipment on the used market because they need the money and/or because they're just not using it any more. Vacations are down, weddings are down, wedding budgets are down, and I personally know a good wedding photographer who has transitioned to _baking._ You read that right. The market for good pies and desserts has been better than the market for wedding photography.

And it's not over. The global economy is set to get worse before it gets better. Certain markets may be booming (housing; stocks; crypto) but that's because printed currency tends to find its way into those markets despite government's best efforts. They bubble fast, _but they collapse much faster._

We should probably be grateful at this point that Canon is not in Nikon's position financially.


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## IcyBergs (Apr 9, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...


I guess everyone's mileage varies. I personally haven't seen the dramatic EF bargains of half-off that some are claiming to have saved versus new. Not saying that hasn't happened but where I live the private party second hand market has been good to me as a seller.

I recently decided to sell my least used lenses (100L & 16-35 f/4L) I was able to fetch more combined for these used lenses than I paid for them new years ago.

The recent spike in MSRP for the 100L ($929 to $1299 USD) certainly aided in my cause, as I sold mine for approximately $50 more than I paid new, but was able to sell the ultrawide for only $40 less than I paid new.

So depending on the lenses you are looking to sell, and perhaps more importantly (WHEN you purchased) it could be more a sellers market than a what seems like a ripe buyers market.


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## dtaylor (Apr 9, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Maybe somebody has asked this question - if so, I missed it - but what do you mean by "officially?" Do we have an actual statement from Canon? Do we have actual sellers reporting that Canon has told them these lenses are being discontinued? Or are you just speculating that "Sold out" or "Unavailable" means discontinued? That seems to be the most important question that should be answered.



With all the hand wringing (including by me) I wonder this as well. Not to knock CR or any other rumors site, but "official" means a statement or list from Canon that we can view, or sites like B&H labeling them as such. A few lenses on this list are "official." But some don't make much sense, and the bulk of the list is marked in stock every where you look.

Doesn't mean CR is wrong as the list could be something only dealers are meant to see.


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## Ozarker (Apr 9, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> COVID has had multiple impacts and supply chain issues might be the least important. Camera sales were already in steep decline before the pandemic thanks to cell phones dominating the low end. (The impact on P&S and entry level ILCs is obvious. But there's also the fact that many people who stick to their phones will never get 'the itch' to treat photography as a serious hobby and move up.) Camera sales have now practically collapsed due to the economic impact. I can't imagine lens sales are doing any better.
> 
> Now add the people dumping equipment on the used market because they need the money and/or because they're just not using it any more. Vacations are down, weddings are down, wedding budgets are down, and I personally know a good wedding photographer who has transitioned to _baking._ You read that right. The market for good pies and desserts has been better than the market for wedding photography.
> 
> ...


Cake, pie, biscuits, and potatoes.... My pacifiers during the pandemic, and the cause of 70 extra pounds in the past year.


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## Ozarker (Apr 9, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> With all the hand wringing (including by me) I wonder this as well. Not to knock CR or any other rumors site, but "official" means a statement or list from Canon that we can view, or sites like B&H labeling them as such. A few lenses on this list are "official." But some don't make much sense, and the bulk of the list is marked in stock every where you look.
> 
> Doesn't mean CR is wrong as the list could be something only dealers are meant to see.


Give it a year. It will take a while to deplete stocks in the current economy, especially with the collapse of the ILC market.


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## AlanF (Apr 9, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Cake, pie, biscuits, and potatoes.... My pacifiers during the pandemic, and the cause of 70 extra pounds in the past year.


CanonFatBoy?


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## Ozarker (Apr 9, 2021)

AlanF said:


> CanonFatBoy?


Yup!


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## tron (Apr 9, 2021)

SnowMiku said:


> I'm glad I got into DSLR photography back in 2014, I've been able to buy most of my EF lenses used for about half the price of new. If anyone wants a new DSLR I would suggest to buy it sooner rather then later.
> 
> It's good that we have the EF-RF and the EF-EF-M adapter, so everyone can use EF lenses in future bodies until they stop making the EF-RF adapter. I wonder if they will discontinue this adapter in a few years to force people on RF? Any thoughts on this?
> If you have the adapter you can keep using EF until the RF mount gets replaced which is probably decades away. So EF will still live on in a way for a very long time.


I do not believe they will. Also there are already 3rd party adapters.


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## dominic_siu (Apr 10, 2021)

Using EF lenses on R bodies are “ok” with long focal length lenses but not that good for focal length below 100mm as the lens plus adapter protrude a lot. Moreover EF lenses can’t fully utilize AF capability of R5/6 (listed in the user manual of R5/6)


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## Fletchahh (Apr 10, 2021)

tron said:


> I wonder the same for 15-85. It is one of the best crop lenses for general purpose mid-range shooting.


Eh, I'm guessing not many people would buy one new nowadays when you can get a good used copy off Amazon for only a little more than a quarter of the full MSRP.


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## dtaylor (Apr 10, 2021)

dominic_siu said:


> Moreover EF lenses can’t fully utilize AF capability of R5/6 (listed in the user manual of R5/6)



What limitations? What page of the manual? The only limitation I'm aware of is that some lenses cannot shoot 12 or 20 fps. That can be an issue with some lenses on 1DX models as well.


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## chasingrealness (Apr 10, 2021)

Maximilian said:


> A little bit earlier and faster than I expected.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love my RP, and if they made an RP mark ii I would buy it in a heartbeat. Needs weather sealing on the next one. When I was in Kuala Lumpur I got caught in a deluge and my Peak Design shell was no match for the sheets of rain that poured in. Thankfully after I dried out the battery compartment i was able to bring it back to life and it’s been doing ok since (almost two years later) but the shutter button is still a little mushy.

point of the story: it wasn’t weather sealed and it still works after the equivalent of dropping it in a bathtub.


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## dominic_siu (Apr 10, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> What limitations? What page of the manual? The only limitation I'm aware of is that some lenses cannot shoot 12 or 20 fps. That can be an issue with some lenses on 1DX models as well.


Sorry my bad, should be “not all EF lenses support 12fps shooting”


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## mariosk1gr (Apr 10, 2021)

These two lenses are from a few years back and you cannot call them "OLD" by ane means. Surprised to see that...

Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM Macro
Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM
Canon needs fast to replace lenses for RF mount!


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## ajfotofilmagem (Apr 10, 2021)

I was only surprised by the discontinuation of the "EF-S 55-250 STM".
A lens that sells very well, and has no better replacement for 90D users.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Apr 10, 2021)

What's surprising to me is some of the lenses that _haven't_ been discontinued in the midst of all of this carnage:

- The late 1990's vintage EF 28-135mm IS USM
- The early 2000's era EF-S 17-85mm IS USM (I got one as a kit lens with my 20D in 2004)

My guess is that the last production run of both of these lenses was a decade ago or longer, and they'll remain "active" until Canon either sells down existing stock or decides to unload them at fire sale prices.


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## AlanF (Apr 10, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> What's surprising to me is some of the lenses that _haven't_ been discontinued in the midst of all of this carnage:
> 
> - The late 1990's vintage EF 28-135mm IS USM
> - The early 2000's era EF-S 17-85mm IS USM (I got one as a kit lens with my 20D in 2004)
> ...


I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to buy the 17-85 - the 15-85 was vast improvement. I had the 17-85 with my 300D.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Apr 10, 2021)

The number of popular, high quality EF-S lenses on the list, particularly the 10-22, 15-85, 17-55, and especially the 55-250 STM, convinces me even more that Canon has no further interest in APS-C (outside of the EOS M, if that) and there will be no APS-C R7.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Apr 10, 2021)

AlanF said:


> I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to buy the 17-85 - the 15-85 was vast improvement. I had the 17-85 with my 300D.


Exactly. So why kill the highly regarded 15-85 but leave the 17-85 active? Because they have stockrooms full of them.

EDIT: The 28-135 IS USM was a decent lens in its day, especially as an upgrade for the 28-105 USM I got in 1992 when its AF stopped working. But I went digital a year or so after I got it, when the 20D came out. Since it wasn't a good range for APS-C, I stopped using it.


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## Fletchahh (Apr 10, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> The number of popular, high quality EF-S lenses on the list, particularly the 10-22, 15-85, 17-55, and especially the 55-250 STM, convinces me even more that Canon has no further interest in APS-C (outside of the EOS M, if that) and there will be no APS-C R7.


There’s a confirmed APS-C R camera coming, and even with these lenses discontinued an R7 (or 90D+ equivalent) is the most likely option because more of its users don’t solely use EF-S lenses (and there are no RF-S lenses), and they have nothing built up that would entice a hypothetical RF rebel user to buy into the RF ecosystem.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Apr 10, 2021)

Fletchahh said:


> There’s a confirmed APS-C R camera coming, and even with these lenses discontinued an R7 (or 90D+ equivalent) is the most likely option because more of its users don’t solely use EF-S lenses (and there are no RF-S lenses), and they have nothing built up that would entice a hypothetical RF rebel user to buy into the RF ecosystem.


I hope you’re right but I’ve lost confidence that it’s really coming. There were a lot of “confirmed” 7D Mark III rumors a couple of years ago too.

Most of my 7Dii shooting is with a 100-400, but I still want a decent crop-mode normal lens (please not another plastic 18-55!), and maybe even wide angle like the 10-18 zoom for the once a year or so that I need it.


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## Fletchahh (Apr 10, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> I hope you’re right but I’ve lost confidence that it’s really coming. There were a lot of “confirmed” 7D Mark III rumors a couple of years ago too.
> 
> Most of my 7Dii shooting is with a 100-400, but I still want a decent crop-mode normal lens (please not another plastic 18-55!), and maybe even wide angle like the 10-18 zoom for the once a year or so that I need it.


Yeah, hope they come out with decent crop lenses eventually, but I'm happy for the time being using exclusively EF and EF-S lenses when it comes out, plus it'll be nice to have IBIS stabilization for my Sigma f/1.8 zooms. The only RF lens I would be interested in buying for now is if they make a 200-600mm or DO 500mm f/5.6, a decent quality super telephoto that doesn't cost a fortune. I know they have the 600mm and 800mm f/11, but I'd more often just use my 100-400mm with an extender.


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## StoicalEtcher (Apr 10, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Maybe somebody has asked this question - if so, I missed it - but what do you mean by "officially?" Do we have an actual statement from Canon? Do we have actual sellers reporting that Canon has told them these lenses are being discontinued? Or are you just speculating that "Sold out" or "Unavailable" means discontinued? That seems to be the most important question that should be answered.


Good question. I _think_ I recall CR Guy saying in another thread that this was something coming from some retailers who had been told so (but I may recall incorrectly, so apologies if I'm wrong).

But, I also think if this was "official" then there should be a formal announcement somewhere linked to Canon, to say this. That said, I don't know if this is how they would do it?

My own opinion on this is that the writing is on the wall that EF is in decline, but that some may be jumping the gun and maybe "not currently in production and no known plans to make another run" is being translated as "officially discontinued". Happy to be proved wrong, and find out more about the "official" in all of this.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Apr 10, 2021)

Fletchahh said:


> Yeah, hope they come out with decent crop lenses eventually, but I'm happy for the time being using exclusively EF and EF-S lenses when it comes out, plus it'll be nice to have IBIS stabilization for my Sigma f/1.8 zooms. The only RF lens I would be interested in buying for now is if they make a 200-600mm or DO 500mm f/5.6, a decent quality super telephoto that doesn't cost a fortune. I know they have the 600mm and 800mm f/11, but I'd more often just use my 100-400mm with an extender.


Have you looked at the Sony α6600? 24MP APS-C with fast AF and tracking, IBIS, face/eye and animal eye AF, and there are several EF lens mount adapters available, including one from Sigma that should be well paired (in terms of its electronic command protocol) to their Art lenses (if you have to adapt your EF lenses anyway, why limit yourself to Canon bodies?). Sony also makes a US$2000 200-600 lens that looks amazing. You can see some examples of what people are doing with it here.


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## unfocused (Apr 10, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Where is the press release? No press release. No statement from Canon? Not official.


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## unfocused (Apr 10, 2021)

Fletchahh said:


> There’s a confirmed APS-C R camera coming...


Confirmed by whom? Certainly not Canon.


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## unfocused (Apr 10, 2021)

Given that Canon can’t even meet demand for simple things like batteries and basic adapters, much less lenses and bodies, it should come as no surprise that they are pausing EF production to get their supply chain functioning again. But absent any evidence this is just fake news or more accurately click bait.


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## Fletchahh (Apr 11, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> Have you looked at the Sony α6600? 24MP APS-C with fast AF and tracking, IBIS, face/eye and animal eye AF, and there are several EF lens mount adapters available, including one from Sigma that should be well paired (in terms of its electronic command protocol) to their Art lenses (if you have to adapt your EF lenses anyway, why limit yourself to Canon bodies?). Sony also makes a US$2000 200-600 lens that looks amazing. You can see some examples of what people are doing with it here.



I take a look at it, I'll probably just wait and see what Canon announces and look to it as a backup in the unlikely event whatever Canon releases happens to be terrible.



unfocused said:


> Confirmed by whom? Certainly not Canon.


Maybe I should have said basically confirmed, but there's a [CR3] rated blog post about it (here) near the end of last year.


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## woodman411 (Apr 11, 2021)

peters said:


> I am also surprised that they discontinue lenses BEFORE they even announced (yet alone actualy deliver) equivalent lenses (with equivalent focal length and aperture)....



Ideally, if it didn't cost Canon anything, I think they would love to wait until there is an equivalent RF replacement. But I think it places a burden on the RF system, see below.



Czardoom said:


> If these lenses are being discontinued, it seems obvious that the reason is that sales numbers are way down or non-existent, regardless of how popular the lens might have been at one time. My guess is that those buying the latest DSLR's (The 1DX III and the 5D IV) are users that were already in the FF system and not buying new EF lenses in any substantial number. Canon would have that info, and clearly they will use the time and facilities they have to produce what is in demand now - and that is RF lenses. Would you schedule manufacturing time making EF lenses when your R5 and R6 Cameras are selling beyond expectations and lenses are on backorder everywhere?



Not necessarily, I've seen slow sellers from Canon before (eg. older EF-M bodies and lenses) and they would go on fire-sale, not so with various EF lenses I looked at recently. Just one example, the EF 35 f/1.4L II, which is not a new lens, did not go down in price at all during all of 2020 and 2021, and the same story plays out in other EF lenses I've looked at (EF 85 f/1.2L II and 85 f/1.4L IS), all of which does not indicate slow selling:




I postulate another reason to discontinue. Many have noticed that most EF lenses work flawlessly with RF bodies. I don't think this is an accident. I can see Canon rigorously testing many EF lenses against RF bodies using their adapters, and this no doubt takes a lot of time and effort, not just for autofocus accuracy, but also to get the IBIS working right, with and without lens IS, in addition to extenders and other accessories. By discontinuing an EF lens, it's one less lens to test when a new RF body is developed, and I'm sure they are looking to contain the development time.


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## GoldWing (Apr 11, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


The Canon f/2.8 300mm IS USM II is possibly one of the best lenses Canon has ever made.


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## dilbert (Apr 11, 2021)

If Canon is going to discontinue all of their EF lineup then it would be good to see some leadership from Canon with regards to the e-waste situation that they are now setting up. What does that mean? Offering trade-ins for owners of EF cameras and lenses so that those discontinued models don't just end up in land fill and go back to Canon for Canon to take responsibility for disposing of.


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## Tessar (Apr 11, 2021)

What many people often forget is that Canon is a company, not a charity... 
Companies need to compete in the global marketplace and respond to changes in the market. For example nearly all of the entry market get replaced by smartphones with better quality images and more gimmicks. Also still images are more and more replaced by videos for streaming or publish on platforms like Instagram or Tiktok from younger generations.
What's left is mostly the private enthusiasts and the professionals (which earn their living with photography or videography) 
Now I guess the overwhelming profit for Canon is in the professional market.
So streamlining their production facilities is a big cost saving factor. Retrofitting older production lines with low volume EF lenses for probably higher volume (and higher margin) future RF lenses is the smartest way to go. 

So people say farewell to the old and say welcome the new. Time moves on. Things are changing all the time. Does anyone miss their buttons only (and tiny screen) cellular phones?


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## Ozarker (Apr 11, 2021)

dilbert said:


> If Canon is going to discontinue all of their EF lineup then it would be good to see some leadership from Canon with regards to the e-waste situation that they are now setting up. What does that mean? Offering trade-ins for owners of EF cameras and lenses so that those discontinued models don't just end up in land fill and go back to Canon for Canon to take responsibility for disposing of.


As soon as I read of Canon discontinuing lenses I threw my EF 135mm f/2L in the garbage. Everyone knows that discontinued lenses don't work anymore... so the landfills be damned. I'd imagine people all over the world have been dumping their glass into the landfills for the past week.


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## koenkooi (Apr 11, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> As soon as I read of Canon discontinuing lenses I threw my EF 135mm f/2L in the garbage. Everyone knows that discontinued lenses don't work anymore... so the landfills be damned. I'd imagine people all over the world have been dumping their glass into the landfills for the past week.


So, ehm, asking for a friend: where do you dump your garbage?


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## Fischer (Apr 11, 2021)

peters said:


> I am also surprised that they discontinue lenses BEFORE they even announced (yet alone actualy deliver) equivalent lenses (with equivalent focal length and aperture)....


Canon has huge issues keeping up with the demand for RF lenses. I was lucky getting my RF 100-500mm after only a few weeks. So Canon is probably making space for moving new RF lenses forward faster and maintaining a better production rate. This makes sense as the likelihood of seeing any new EF mount bodies released seems to be zero. Meanwhile every delayed order adds the risk that buyers go elsewhere with their money.


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## petitBogueBogue (Apr 11, 2021)

IMHO, I think this signifies that very soon, existing EF lenses will be totally incompatible with forthcoming RF cameras as Canon eagerly wants to become the big brother in the mirrorless arena and so does not want the compatibility matter in the EF-RF transition hinders her ambition. I hypothesize this because similar thing happened in Canon once during her FD-EF transition some thirty year ago!
What do you think? ^^


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## SnowMiku (Apr 11, 2021)

petitBogueBogue said:


> IMHO, I think this signifies that very soon, existing EF lenses will be totally incompatible with forthcoming RF cameras as Canon eagerly wants to become the big brother in the mirrorless arena and so does not want the compatibility matter in the EF-RF transition hinders her ambition. I hypothesize this because similar thing happened in Canon once during her FD-EF transition some thirty year ago!
> What do you think? ^^


I think that would be a very bad move. Right now EF/EF-S users can easily switch to RF with the adapter and stay with Canon. If they got rid of the compatilbilty in the future it would just make people continue to use the old EF bodies for longer, and when they want to upgrade in the future there would be no incentive to stay with Canon.


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## dilbert (Apr 11, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> As soon as I read of Canon discontinuing lenses I threw my EF 135mm f/2L in the garbage. Everyone knows that discontinued lenses don't work anymore... so the landfills be damned. I'd imagine people all over the world have been dumping their glass into the landfills for the past week.



Sarcasm noted.

But in 6 years time, it will no longer be possible to repair that EF 135 f/2L, so if it develops a fault, it may as well go in the garbage.

Canon have decided to make all of the existing EF product line obsolete. While it may still continue to be of use to you and others, it is no different to people still using 5 or 6 year old mobile phones. However there are recycling plans in place in various parts of the world to take care of the e-waste that the mobile phone upgrade cycle generates. There are similar programs for laptops.

If Canon (and I suppose Nikon too) are going to grauitously decide that their old products are no longer compatible with their new products then Canon should man up and setup a recycling network.

While your EF 135 f/2L may work to some degree with a new camera with an adapter, the looming obsolete DSLR won't work with Canon's new, current, line of lenses.


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## Ozarker (Apr 11, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> *Just a fun poll if you've read this far: what is the most recent purchase you've done of EF glass? Personally, it was getting the 50/1.2 and 8-15 fish in 2011. Anyone buy new EF glass more recently than that? Anyone buy new EF glass since RF came out?*


Well, I have bought a Tamron EF 45mm and a Canon EF 135mm f/2L since getting my R, but I don't care a bit which lenses Canon discontinues. Would I buy another EF lens? Wish I could buy, again, the EF 35mm f/1.4L II. No money, no honey.

EF Lenses I have bought new since 2013:
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II
EF 135mm f/2L (x2)
EF 35mm f/1.4L II
EF 40mm f/2.8
Tamron EF 45mm f/1.8
Tamron EF 15-30 f/2.8

RF 28-70mm f/2L
RF 50mm f/1.2L
RF 85mm f/1.2L


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## Fischer (Apr 11, 2021)

As for the cost of transition to the RF system, I see many are unhappy with the RF sticker price. 

You can make various calculations on this. This is mine: 
Looking at a lens such as the RF 85mm 1.2 I calculate that the cost of ownership for 5 years to 800 USD. For that I get a slightly better lens, some convenience and a little improved functionality. The cost of keeping a 5 year old EF 85mm 1.2 lens instead will depend a lot on whether or not it will need a repair, but giving it a 70% survival rate without repairs past the 10 year mark the average cost of keeping the lens an additional 5 years will be around 450 USD which translates into around 70 USD per year extra for switching to the RF model. If you think the RF model is just 10% better than the EF model - you should switch to the RF model seen from a pure financial point of view. I understand that not everyone will have the money, that you may want to choose other discount rates than mine etc. and also that you may invest the difference in outlay and actually earn some money towards better lenses in the future. But basically it is maybe less expensive over time to switch to the RF mount than it may seem at first glance (if you can finance the outlay with cash). YMMV.


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## Sporgon (Apr 11, 2021)

dilbert said:


> Sarcasm noted.
> 
> But in 6 years time, it will no longer be possible to repair that EF 135 f/2L, so if it develops a fault, it may as well go in the garbage.


Actually that's not true. After the seven year period Canon won't repair or service it, but all available parts are sold on to approved third party outfits, and they may well be able to repair Canonfanboy's 135L twenty years from now. 

I had an old EF 20-35/2.8 that was 1989 vintage and was discontinued in the early '90s, and a few years ago Colchester Camera, an approved Canon repair centre (that has recently closed unfortunately), was able to replace the centre barrel that has the AF/Manual switch in it. So messages of "after six years your EF lenses can't be repaired" are not necessarily correct.


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## Fischer (Apr 11, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> Actually that's not true. After the seven year period Canon won't repair or service it, but all available parts are sold on to approved third party outfits, and they may well be able to repair Canonfanboy's 135L twenty years from now.
> 
> I had an old EF 20-35/2.8 that was 1989 vintage and was discontinued in the early '90s, and a few years ago Colchester Camera, an approved Canon repair centre (that has recently closed unfortunately), was able to replace the centre barrel that has the AF/Manual switch in it. So messages of "after six years your EF lenses can't be repaired" are not necessarily correct.


Worth taking into account. But anyone in the repair business - from cameras to cars - can attest that repairs and repair shops are a dying thing or alternatively very expensive. Just see some of the repair costs people quote here at CR. I fear this trend will accelerate in the coming years. In many countries in Europe a non-Canon repair is practically impossible or very expensive already.


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## StoicalEtcher (Apr 11, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> *Just a fun poll if you've read this far: what is the most recent purchase you've done of EF glass? Personally, it was getting the 50/1.2 and 8-15 fish in 2011. Anyone buy new EF glass more recently than that? Anyone buy new EF glass since RF came out?*


I agree with much of the direction of your comments, but, in the spirit of your query, I've purchased the TS-E 50mm and 180macro in the last 12 months. 

Both were lenses I wanted/had use for. In the case of the 180macro, I'd been looking for almost 1 year any couldn't find any authorised UK Canon dealer with one in stock - so much so I reckoned they had already stopped production some time ago and sold out of the last run, and I was getting close to resigning myself to the second-hand market. 

Then, out of the blue, Canon (UK) themselves had it in stock, so I jumped - I reckon they were clearing out stocks and come across some last items!

I'm not a big fan of zooms generally, but a young family with a penchant for beach holidays (Scotland's islands are still mostly open), persuaded me to purchase the ef70-200 f/4 as personal/beach purchase too last summer (aug 2020) - also backed by a personal view that if you want 'em new, there's likely only a certain window left, even before Craig's stories here.

Cheers.


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## SteveC (Apr 11, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> *Just a fun poll if you've read this far: what is the most recent purchase you've done of EF glass? Personally, it was getting the 50/1.2 and 8-15 fish in 2011. Anyone buy new EF glass more recently than that? Anyone buy new EF glass since RF came out?*


I'm not one of the bemoaners.

But I did buy a 100-400 II L either in late 2019 or early 2020 (but it was before the RF 100-500 came out). Not all that long before that I bought some of the low-rent primes. I'm new enough to this that every single lens I own (other than maybe a rebel kit lens) is after your cutoff date. 

No I did NOT throw a fit when an RF replacement came out shortly afterwards, because I have, and will again in the future, use the lens on my M series cameras, and I can't do that with the RF model. I would probably buy the EF today, in fact, had I not done so in the past. (And as far as I know this one hasn't been discontinued, yet.)


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## dilbert (Apr 11, 2021)

Fischer said:


> Worth taking into account. But anyone in the repair business - from cameras to cars - can attest that repairs and repair shops are a dying thing or alternatively very expensive. Just see some of the repair costs people quote here at CR. I fear this trend will accelerate in the coming years. In many countries in Europe a non-Canon repair is practically impossible or very expensive already.



And that's just repairs.

How do you insure a discontinued item for replacement in case it gets stolen? Lost? Dropped in the ocean? Har, get that check from the insurance company and off to eBay you go - good luck with that!


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 11, 2021)

While Canon are still selling the 1D X MKIV, 5D MKIV, 6D MKII, 90D etc. it seems rather disingenuous to not continue selling lenses like the EF 70-200mm f4L MKII as this is a popular lens and only came out a short while ago. Fact is as well the RF lenses are considerably more expensive than their EF counterparts as indeed is the R5 in comparison to the price of the 5DS / 5DSr when they launched even taking inflation into consideration. 
As a life-long Canon user now recently retired I feel Canon maybe pushing me into the Olympus system completely. Ive long had an Olympus OM-D E-M10 as a simple walk around camera with three zooms and as Im not selling commercially the output from something like the OM-D E-M1 MKIII with Zuiko Pro lenses is way cheaper rather than buying say the R6 with the RF 70-200mm f4L. I bought the EOS R which has many failings and whilst the RF 24-105mm f4L is a good lens that cannot be said for the RF 24-240mm which for the price sucks. 
Canon I feel are at least in the UK pricing themselves out of the market and it will be interesting to see how they fair against the competition especially attracting new users. 

So I shall be holding onto my 5DS with the EF 24-70mm f2.8L USM II, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM II, EF 85 f1.4L IS USM, EF 100mm f2.8L IS USM this is my go to portrait package. I sold my 6D MKII when I bought the EOS R and the EF f4L trinity lenses I had with it, in hind sight that was a mistake. For landscape Im considering the Olympus set-up as the R6 & RF 70-200mm f4L will set me back £ 4,218.00. The Olympus OM-D E-M1 MKIII with the Zuiko 12-40mm f2.8 Pro & the 40-150mm f2.8 Pro is £ 3,098. Similar story if you look at Fuji.


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## dilbert (Apr 11, 2021)

jeffa4444 said:


> While Canon are still selling the 1D X MKIV, 5D MKIV, 6D MKII, 90D etc. it seems rather disingenuous to not continue selling lenses like the EF 70-200mm f4L MKII as this is a popular lens and only came out a short while ago. Fact is as well the RF lenses are considerably more expensive than their EF counterparts...



I think that is part of Canon's plan - to make money from their new RF line of lenses.

I suspect that the "discontinued" notice for a lens simply means that the last production manufacturing run for that lens has been completed and as time moves forward, production runs of more EF lenses will complete and they'll move to "discontinued" status too. Only lenses that have open production runs aren't EOL'd. Or at least that's my theory after seeing the most recent update to that list. Whether it is no more lenses being made or crystals being grown ... don't know but given the inclusions, it is obviously not based on what's selling.

Canon's other problem is that EF lenses don't have to be used on Canon bodies. Fit them with an adapter and they'll work on Olympus, Sony, Nikon ... the RF lenses are back to being lock-in to Canon bodies.


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## koenkooi (Apr 11, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> [..]
> 
> *Just a fun poll if you've read this far: what is the most recent purchase you've done of EF glass? Personally, it was getting the 50/1.2 and 8-15 fish in 2011. Anyone buy new EF glass more recently than that? Anyone buy new EF glass since RF came out? [..]*


2013 - 2020: mostly EF-M
2019: EF 100mm L, after buying an RP
2020: EF 180mm L


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## stevelee (Apr 11, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> *Just a fun poll if you've read this far: what is the most recent purchase you've done of EF glass? Personally, it was getting the 50/1.2 and 8-15 fish in 2011. Anyone buy new EF glass more recently than that? Anyone buy new EF glass since RF came out?*


I bought 4 EF lenses since 2017, spending about $4,000. One was the kit lens with the camera. I bought new the 100-400mm II and the 16-35mm f/4. I bought the 85mm f/1.8 refurb when it was on sale. All are still useful for me, and I have no regrets. Quite the contrary. Last year I rented the 24mm and the 17mm TS-E lenses and enjoyed that experience. I might consider buying the 24mm some day, realizing that I don’t need it and might not use it much after the novelty wears off. Either it or a 5D4 would be more likely to be my my next photo purchase (probably on impulse) of any size than something in the R family.


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## Dragon (Apr 11, 2021)

EduPortas said:


> Oh I remember well, my friend. But I didn't cite that example because it was not relevant to this situation: we have_ some degree_ _of compatibility_ between EF and RF systems but it's not ideal. Otherwise, Canon wouldn't be forcing this change.
> 
> There's some overlap between this two systems and that is where I expect DSLR APS-C users to carve and interesting niche, specially considering Canon have all but given up on the EOS-M experiment.
> 
> It's astounding that even after seven years Canon have no real substitute for ye old 7DM2. So there's a niche right there.


I have a gut feel that the EOS-M is far less dead than it might appear to be. The biggest part of that market has been at the consumer level and the M50 has kept that going. To address the higher end APS-c market, several things are needed and they have needed time. Canon is clearly working on IBIS for the M line and Powershots. To get better video with decent recording time, smaller geometry (i.e. lower power) processors are needed. The technology is almost ready. Last, but far from least is the faster lens issue. It will be interesting to see where that goes with some EF-s lenses going obsolete, there may be capacity available to address some faster M lenses. The 7D2 question may remain open for a while as I doubt Canon is interested in either making a set of M lenses to accommodate that market or in making an APS-c R body that would have a bunch of folks screaming for APS-c R lenses. My sense is that the R5S (for want of a better name) will come to market first to see if that will satisfy the majority of the 7d2 market. Clearly, that camera will be able to extract all the resolution that lenses have to offer, so the "more pixels per bird" wish will be satisfied. The bargain hunters may just be out of luck and Fuji is neither a bargain, nor do they offer the lenses necessary to replace the 7D2. On the surface, Sony has the pieces, but the the ergonomics on their APS-c bodies are not even close. Bottom line, I can see Canon putting some pressure on Fuji with the M series, but I think the 7D2 bargain is a thing of the past.


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## blackcoffee17 (Apr 11, 2021)

jeffa4444 said:


> While Canon are still selling the 1D X MKIV, 5D MKIV, 6D MKII, 90D etc. it seems rather disingenuous to not continue selling lenses like the EF 70-200mm f4L MKII as this is a popular lens and only came out a short while ago. Fact is as well the RF lenses are considerably more expensive than their EF counterparts as indeed is the R5 in comparison to the price of the 5DS / 5DSr when they launched even taking inflation into consideration.
> As a life-long Canon user now recently retired I feel Canon maybe pushing me into the Olympus system completely. Ive long had an Olympus OM-D E-M10 as a simple walk around camera with three zooms and as Im not selling commercially the output from something like the OM-D E-M1 MKIII with Zuiko Pro lenses is way cheaper rather than buying say the R6 with the RF 70-200mm f4L. I bought the EOS R which has many failings and whilst the RF 24-105mm f4L is a good lens that cannot be said for the RF 24-240mm which for the price sucks.
> Canon I feel are at least in the UK pricing themselves out of the market and it will be interesting to see how they fair against the competition especially attracting new users.
> 
> So I shall be holding onto my 5DS with the EF 24-70mm f2.8L USM II, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM II, EF 85 f1.4L IS USM, EF 100mm f2.8L IS USM this is my go to portrait package. I sold my 6D MKII when I bought the EOS R and the EF f4L trinity lenses I had with it, in hind sight that was a mistake. For landscape Im considering the Olympus set-up as the R6 & RF 70-200mm f4L will set me back £ 4,218.00. The Olympus OM-D E-M1 MKIII with the Zuiko 12-40mm f2.8 Pro & the 40-150mm f2.8 Pro is £ 3,098. Similar story if you look at Fuji.



I feel the same. Prices have gone thru the roof and as much as I like Canon, an R5 + 100-500 combo is close to £7000 in UK. A Sony A7R4 with the 200-600 is £4700. 
The R5 might be better but not that much better. 

If you don't have that kind of money, the RF system does not offer good choices. The RP is too slow, basic and with limited video, the R6 is too low resolution. For a small, travel, everyday kit, the Fuji has the best offerings in my opinion.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Apr 12, 2021)

Dragon said:


> I have a gut feel that the EOS-M is far less dead than it might appear to be. The biggest part of that market has been at the consumer level and the M50 has kept that going. To address the higher end APS-c market, several things are needed and they have needed time. Canon is clearly working on IBIS for the M line and Powershots. To get better video with decent recording time, smaller geometry (i.e. lower power) processors are needed. The technology is almost ready. Last, but far from least is the faster lens issue. It will be interesting to see where that goes with some EF-s lenses going obsolete, there may be capacity available to address some faster M lenses. The 7D2 question may remain open for a while as I doubt Canon is interested in either making a set of M lenses to accommodate that market or in making an APS-c R body that would have a bunch of folks screaming for APS-c R lenses. My sense is that the R5S (for want of a better name) will come to market first to see if that will satisfy the majority of the 7d2 market. Clearly, that camera will be able to extract all the resolution that lenses have to offer, so the "more pixels per bird" wish will be satisfied. The bargain hunters may just be out of luck and Fuji is neither a bargain, nor do they offer the lenses necessary to replace the 7D2. On the surface, Sony has the pieces, but the the ergonomics on their APS-c bodies are not even close. Bottom line, I can see Canon putting some pressure on Fuji with the M series, but I think the 7D2 bargain is a thing of the past.


I agree that rumors of the EOS-M's death have been greatly exaggerated. The question is, will Canon invest in it to keep it competitive (IBIS, new lenses), or just let it die a slow death as the market moves on? Either way, I don't think we'll see any new fast primes beyond those which already exist. The EOS-M target market, consumers, isn't necessarily interested in "bokeh". I think a better move for Canon would be to improve cell phone integration to make it easier to post straight to social media.

I also agree that we're unlikely to see an APS-C R body at this point. Maybe they'll try to pass off the R5s for that role as you suggest, but at that price, a lot of 7Dii users (me included) won't go for it. Fuji and (especially) Sony may not be perfect replacements, but they check a lot of boxes.


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## Fletchahh (Apr 12, 2021)

Dragon said:


> I have a gut feel that the EOS-M is far less dead than it might appear to be. The biggest part of that market has been at the consumer level and the M50 has kept that going. To address the higher end APS-c market, several things are needed and they have needed time. Canon is clearly working on IBIS for the M line and Powershots. To get better video with decent recording time, smaller geometry (i.e. lower power) processors are needed. The technology is almost ready. Last, but far from least is the faster lens issue. It will be interesting to see where that goes with some EF-s lenses going obsolete, there may be capacity available to address some faster M lenses. The 7D2 question may remain open for a while as I doubt Canon is interested in either making a set of M lenses to accommodate that market or in making an APS-c R body that would have a bunch of folks screaming for APS-c R lenses. My sense is that the R5S (for want of a better name) will come to market first to see if that will satisfy the majority of the 7d2 market. Clearly, that camera will be able to extract all the resolution that lenses have to offer, so the "more pixels per bird" wish will be satisfied. The bargain hunters may just be out of luck and Fuji is neither a bargain, nor do they offer the lenses necessary to replace the 7D2. On the surface, Sony has the pieces, but the the ergonomics on their APS-c bodies are not even close. Bottom line, I can see Canon putting some pressure on Fuji with the M series, but I think the 7D2 bargain is a thing of the past.


For my own needs, the R5s is not a good replacement for a 7D2. The R5 is already too expensive for my budget, and the R5s would cost even more. I don't necessarily expect an R7 to be priced at the same level as the 7D2, but I'd be willing to pay around the same amount as an R6 for one. Plus, it's unlikely that an R5s would be able to match the speed of an R7. Luckily there is an APS-C R coming according to this [CR3] rumor, so it's more of a waiting game at this point.


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## Chig (Apr 12, 2021)

pape2 said:


> I guess 400mm DO was too cheap ,they want rather sell same weighting 500mm DO for 15k


Hope they do make an RF version preferably with T.Cs built in. Sadly price will be scary.
400 DO only super telephoto light enough to hand hold and almost affordable too


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## Chig (Apr 12, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> The number of popular, high quality EF-S lenses on the list, particularly the 10-22, 15-85, 17-55, and especially the 55-250 STM, convinces me even more that Canon has no further interest in APS-C (outside of the EOS M, if that) and there will be no APS-C R7.


Well no I disagree - the R7 if it comes is to replace the 7D ii and needs no wide angle lenses or any RF-s lenses as it will be used with long FF telephotos to get more reach and higher pixel density.
At least that's what I'd buy it for and probably thousands of fellow 7D ii owners will too.


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## Chig (Apr 12, 2021)

Fletchahh said:


> For my own needs, the R5s is not a good replacement for a 7D2. The R5 is already too expensive for my budget, and the R5s would cost even more. I don't necessarily expect an R7 to be priced at the same level as the 7D2, but I'd be willing to pay around the same amount as an R6 for one. Plus, it's unlikely that an R5s would be able to match the speed of an R7. Luckily there is an APS-C R coming according to this [CR3] rumor, so it's more of a waiting game at this point.


Me too,
The R5 is far too expensive and cropped 1.6x is only 17mp which is less than my 7Dii also the huge files are pretty silly .
An R7 based on the R6 with a sensor of about 32mp such as the 90D one could be be developed easily and cheaply and could be sold at a similar price to the R6 or perhaps a bit less.
The R5 is a great wildlife camera but a much cheaper R7 with nearly twice it's pixel density is very appealing.
Also has the potential to run faster and never overheat.
This could be a big seller as there are large numbers of 7Dii (and Nikon D500) owners who would be interested as the improvement in performance would be huge over the now rather outdated 7Dii .


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## Chig (Apr 12, 2021)

Fischer said:


> As for the cost of transition to the RF system, I see many are unhappy with the RF sticker price.
> 
> You can make various calculations on this. This is mine:
> Looking at a lens such as the RF 85mm 1.2 I calculate that the cost of ownership for 5 years to 800 USD. For that I get a slightly better lens, some convenience and a little improved functionality. The cost of keeping a 5 year old EF 85mm 1.2 lens instead will depend a lot on whether or not it will need a repair, but giving it a 70% survival rate without repairs past the 10 year mark the average cost of keeping the lens an additional 5 years will be around 450 USD which translates into around 70 USD per year extra for switching to the RF model. If you think the RF model is just 10% better than the EF model - you should switch to the RF model seen from a pure financial point of view. I understand that not everyone will have the money, that you may want to choose other discount rates than mine etc. and also that you may invest the difference in outlay and actually earn some money towards better lenses in the future. But basically it is maybe less expensive over time to switch to the RF mount than it may seem at first glance (if you can finance the outlay with cash). YMMV.


My EF300 f2.8 is 27 years old , has had a very hard life but still works flawlessly and I expect it to last many more years to come.


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## AlanF (Apr 12, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I feel the same. Prices have gone thru the roof and as much as I like Canon, an R5 + 100-500 combo is close to £7000 in UK. A Sony A7R4 with the 200-600 is £4700.
> The R5 might be better but not that much better.
> 
> If you don't have that kind of money, the RF system does not offer good choices. The RP is too slow, basic and with limited video, the R6 is too low resolution. For a small, travel, everyday kit, the Fuji has the best offerings in my opinion.


The R5 is that much better. The A7R4 with the 200-600 has AF problems and so the keen bird photographers complain and prefer to use their 600 f/4s for BIF. They are now transitioning to the A1, which is a worthy, far more expensive rival to the R5.


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## AlanF (Apr 12, 2021)

Chig said:


> Hope they do make an RF version preferably with T.Cs built in. Sadly price will be scary.
> 400 DO only super telephoto light enough to hand hold and almost affordable too


 If they bring in a lightweight RF 400/4 DO or 500/5.6, like the Nikon 500PF that weighs only 1.46kg, I'd be very happy. The proposed RF 500/4 is suggested to be very light and, given the weight savings Nikon did on the 500mm f/5.6 PF, might be close in weight to the current 400mm DO II. Canon shaved off 0.76kg from the 400/2.8 II going to the III, and if they did the same with the RF 500/4 relative to the EF 500/4 II, that would give 2.4kg. In either case, my 400mm DO II is packed up ready to be sold as the RF 100-500 is covering my needs and capabilities for the time being.


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## Czardoom (Apr 12, 2021)

jeffa4444 said:


> While Canon are still selling the 1D X MKIV, 5D MKIV, 6D MKII, 90D etc. it seems rather disingenuous to not continue selling lenses like the EF 70-200mm f4L MKII as this is a popular lens and only came out a short while ago. Fact is as well the RF lenses are considerably more expensive than their EF counterparts as indeed is the R5 in comparison to the price of the 5DS / 5DSr when they launched even taking inflation into consideration.
> As a life-long Canon user now recently retired I feel Canon maybe pushing me into the Olympus system completely. Ive long had an Olympus OM-D E-M10 as a simple walk around camera with three zooms and as Im not selling commercially the output from something like the OM-D E-M1 MKIII with Zuiko Pro lenses is way cheaper rather than buying say the R6 with the RF 70-200mm f4L. I bought the EOS R which has many failings and whilst the RF 24-105mm f4L is a good lens that cannot be said for the RF 24-240mm which for the price sucks.
> Canon I feel are at least in the UK pricing themselves out of the market and it will be interesting to see how they fair against the competition especially attracting new users.
> 
> So I shall be holding onto my 5DS with the EF 24-70mm f2.8L USM II, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM II, EF 85 f1.4L IS USM, EF 100mm f2.8L IS USM this is my go to portrait package. I sold my 6D MKII when I bought the EOS R and the EF f4L trinity lenses I had with it, in hind sight that was a mistake. For landscape Im considering the Olympus set-up as the R6 & RF 70-200mm f4L will set me back £ 4,218.00. The Olympus OM-D E-M1 MKIII with the Zuiko 12-40mm f2.8 Pro & the 40-150mm f2.8 Pro is £ 3,098. Similar story if you look at Fuji.



I think it is important to remember that this is just a rumor.

The other thing to remember is that if you are an owner of the cameras you mention, most of these lenses are available and you can buy them. You may be able to buy them for a number of years to come - we have no idea how many are "in stock". And if not available, you will be able to buy them used for many years to come.

As far as Canon pushing you to another system...just think, if you, or anyone else, was not reading CanonRumors, you would be perfectly happy with your camera and lenses. You can still buy what you want, with a few exceptions. You would not have any reason to be worried or unhappy.

I'm sure it is not the intention of the site owner, but CanonRumors probably does more to make Canon users unhappy and to switch to other systems than anyone else. Just based on rumors, we have people selling off their M system equipment and others switching to other brands for other reasons that may or may not actually happen.


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## KrisK (Apr 12, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> *Just a fun poll if you've read this far: what is the most recent purchase you've done of EF glass? Personally, it was getting the 50/1.2 and 8-15 fish in 2011. Anyone buy new EF glass more recently than that? Anyone buy new EF glass since RF came out?*



About six months ago I bought the now extremely rare, hard to find and much sought after EF 40mm f/2.8.

Don't even think of offering me anything less than $1200.


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## cayenne (Apr 12, 2021)

dominic_siu said:


> Using EF lenses on R bodies are “ok” with long focal length lenses but not that good for focal length below 100mm as the lens plus adapter protrude a lot. Moreover EF lenses can’t fully utilize AF capability of R5/6 (listed in the user manual of R5/6)


Can you list some of these AF capabilities EF lenses adapted to RF cameras that won't work...for those of us without any R5/6 manuals?

Thanks in advance,
C


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## Bonich (Apr 12, 2021)

jeffa4444 said:


> While Canon are still selling the 1D X MKIV, 5D MKIV, 6D MKII, 90D etc. it seems rather disingenuous to not continue selling lenses like the EF 70-200mm f4L MKII as this is a popular lens and only came out a short while ago. Fact is as well the RF lenses are considerably more expensive than their EF counterparts as indeed is the R5 in comparison to the price of the 5DS / 5DSr when they launched even taking inflation into consideration.
> As a life-long Canon user now recently retired I feel Canon maybe pushing me into the Olympus system completely. Ive long had an Olympus OM-D E-M10 as a simple walk around camera with three zooms and as Im not selling commercially the output from something like the OM-D E-M1 MKIII with Zuiko Pro lenses is way cheaper rather than buying say the R6 with the RF 70-200mm f4L. I bought the EOS R which has many failings and whilst the RF 24-105mm f4L is a good lens that cannot be said for the RF 24-240mm which for the price sucks.
> Canon I feel are at least in the UK pricing themselves out of the market and it will be interesting to see how they fair against the competition especially attracting new users.
> 
> So I shall be holding onto my 5DS with the EF 24-70mm f2.8L USM II, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM II, EF 85 f1.4L IS USM, EF 100mm f2.8L IS USM this is my go to portrait package. I sold my 6D MKII when I bought the EOS R and the EF f4L trinity lenses I had with it, in hind sight that was a mistake. For landscape Im considering the Olympus set-up as the R6 & RF 70-200mm f4L will set me back £ 4,218.00. The Olympus OM-D E-M1 MKIII with the Zuiko 12-40mm f2.8 Pro & the 40-150mm f2.8 Pro is £ 3,098. Similar story if you look at Fuji.


Yes, the EF 70-200mm f4L II is a great lens and very young of age. But holding/using this side to side to the RF 70-200 F4 the EF version is a dinosaur to be swept away by evolution.
Take care investing in the Olympus system.
But why not just going on using EF? There is a huge market of new ans second hand stuff around.


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## SteveC (Apr 12, 2021)

KrisK said:


> About six months ago I bought the now extremely rare, hard to find and much sought after EF 40mm f/2.8.
> 
> Don't even think of offering me anything less than $1200.



I'll be an underselling scab and accept $1150 for mine, bought within the last two years. It was the first lens I used on my R5 (because it was the widest full frame I had at the time) and I've even posted pictures taken with it here, on CR.


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## Sporgon (Apr 12, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I'll be an underselling scab and accept $1150 for mine, bought within the last two years. It was the first lens I used on my R5 (because it was the widest full frame I had at the time) and I've even posted pictures taken with it here, on CR.


You and KrisK jest, but the little Pentax M series 40mm f/2.8 pancake, very similar to look at as the EF version but a different optical formula, which was introduced in 1976 along with the diminutive M cameras as a budget ‘kit’ lens, is now as hard to find as rocking horse s**t, and when you do find one they are a daft price ! 
(Also optically they are petty bad unlike the EF one which is pretty good - if you don’t mind a bit of field curvature).


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## espressino (Apr 12, 2021)

Spare a thought for the Canon EF-S 35mm f/2.8 IS STM Macro, the last EF-S lens that Canon announced for the EF-S system and probably the most underrated, but one of the best, if not _the_ best EF-S lens they ever made.


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## fox40phil (Apr 12, 2021)

Does that mean we will see a new 135 & 180mm ?! <3


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## LJT (Apr 12, 2021)

I’m excited for the transition however, it seems that canon has roared ahead on the stills front (RP,R,R6,R5) and has left the video side behind (c70). I know it’s rumoured about other professional video cameras coming out for RF but you can only go on what’s actually here- with that I just don’t understand why they haven’t brought the video side of the business with the RF transition as much as the stills side. Especially once you make an RF lens purchase you are locked into that system completely with no option to adapt it to anything else.


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## dominic_siu (Apr 13, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Can you list some of these AF capabilities EF lenses adapted to RF cameras that won't work...for those of us without any R5/6 manuals?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> C


Sorry my bad, should be only listed EF lenses can support 12 fps shooting


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## dominic_siu (Apr 13, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> Half the comments here or more are completely nuts. Canon's discontinued practically every lens they've ever made. So has every other manufacturer. Never has discontinuing a lens been described as an "insult" to the user base, so why take it as such now!??!
> 
> You guys are whining that Canon's not going to continue to sell and support these models forever? How about you guys: if they did would you keep buying it?
> 
> ...


The last one I bought was 85 1.4L in 2018 but when R came out I dumped all EF lenses as I found using EF lenses on R bodies is cumbersome.


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## dominic_siu (Apr 13, 2021)

EF just like FD, same thing happen again


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## SteveC (Apr 13, 2021)

dominic_siu said:


> EF just like FD, same thing happen again



Yes and no. Discontinuing the lenses abruptly--yes. The old lenses being useless on the new cameras? No. Yeah, an adapter can be a pain in the butt, and I'd think twice before buying an EF lens if I didn't have an EF camera, becuase I'd have to either buy an adapter to live on that lens OR deal with swapping, but any EF lens you now have isn't useless, unless the FD lenses.

Actually FD lenses are easier to adapt to RF than to EF, from what I'm told, so they might make a comeback in the aftermarket.


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## SnowMiku (Apr 13, 2021)

I wouldn't be surprised if they start discontinuing all of the current EF bodies earlier then expected, but maybe keep the newest 1D for a few more years.


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 13, 2021)

The premise of my argument is the fact Canon are still selling DSLRs both full frame & cropped but are discontinuing EF & EF-S lenses. If your going to kill so many EF lenses then kill the cameras that use them as well. They also don't seem to have a replacement for the Rebel, 80D, 90D & 7D MKII line of cameras or lenses in the RF system I certainly do not see the M lineup being the 1.6X route for these cameras so what is Canon long term plan they are certainly not sharing anything with their huge customer base. 

From a price point they have concentrated mainly on the higher end in the RF lineup to date (RF35 1.8 Macro, RF 50mm 1.8, RF 85mm f2, RF 24-240mm f4-6.3, RF 24-105mm f4-7.1 being the only cheaper options). Camera systems once your in one are rarely changed out of. It follows the logic of moving up through a car makers base cars to the more expensive cars through your buying lifetime and generates customer loyalty. Canon has profited from this and can only continue to do so by having a product spread at various price points. It also needs to respect its customers and bring them on the journey not offer up a guessing game.


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## dominic_siu (Apr 13, 2021)

jeffa4444 said:


> The premise of my argument is the fact Canon are still selling DSLRs both full frame & cropped but are discontinuing EF & EF-S lenses. If your going to kill so many EF lenses then kill the cameras that use them as well. They also don't seem to have a replacement for the Rebel, 80D, 90D & 7D MKII line of cameras or lenses in the RF system I certainly do not see the M lineup being the 1.6X route for these cameras so what is Canon long term plan they are certainly not sharing anything with their huge customer base.
> 
> From a price point they have concentrated mainly on the higher end in the RF lineup to date (RF35 1.8 Macro, RF 50mm 1.8, RF 85mm f2, RF 24-240mm f4-6.3, RF 24-105mm f4-7.1 being the only cheaper options). Camera systems once your in one are rarely changed out of. It follows the logic of moving up through a car makers base cars to the more expensive cars through your buying lifetime and generates customer loyalty. Canon has profited from this and can only continue to do so by having a product spread at various price points. It also needs to respect its customers and bring them on the journey not offer up a guessing game.


Selling DSLR but won’t be for long. If I were Canon executives and see the success of R5/6 then I would really push hard for EF to RF transition by killing those DSLR and EF lenses sooner than later


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## AEWest (Apr 13, 2021)

dominic_siu said:


> Selling DSLR but won’t be for long. If I were Canon executives and see the success of R5/6 then I would really push hard for EF to RF transition by killing those DSLR and EF lenses sooner than later


Agreed. They need to update RP as their entry level RF camera, and add some consumer grade lenses to push that end of the market into RF mount.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Apr 13, 2021)

Suggestion for the admin:
Make a list of the EF, EF-S, RF, M lenses that are in production, updating each month.


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## MartinF. (Apr 13, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Mass lens discontinuations strike me as being premature. It shows contempt for their DSLR users.


I saw the same in mid 80's with the shift from FD to EF mount. 
It is very sad. And definitely not funny to be caught in such a shift in technology. Now it is the second time for me....
However modern cameras last for 5-10 years. Lenses for decades.
The hard part is investing in a new R5/R6 camera and a RF 24-70 L f/2.8 and RF 70-200 f/2.0 L "to get started".... 
I definitely will aim for that, but do hope that prices will drop just a bit within the next couples of years.
In the meanwhile: my current cameras an lenses as good today as they were yesterday. How knows - someday DSLRs will be as hyped a classic filmcamera are today?


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## MartinF. (Apr 13, 2021)

AEWest said:


> Agreed. They need to update RP as their entry level RF camera, and add some consumer grade lenses to push that end of the market into RF mount.


exactly: the the hit, discontinue old stuff, and move on. 
Canon do know how to do this. They have done it before. And even that I did not liked it back in the 80's and do not like it now, I think it is necessary. Keeping two complete lines lenses in production are way to expensive. 
However: I still miss a final 5D style EF mount camera. - A final salute to the DSLR era.


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## dilbert (Apr 14, 2021)

jeffa4444 said:


> The premise of my argument is the fact Canon are still selling DSLRs both full frame & cropped but are discontinuing EF & EF-S lenses. If your going to kill so many EF lenses then kill the cameras that use them as well. They also don't seem to have a replacement for the Rebel, 80D, 90D & 7D MKII line of cameras or lenses in the RF system I certainly do not see the M lineup being the 1.6X route for these cameras so what is Canon long term plan they are certainly not sharing anything with their huge customer base.



Maybe Canon will let the 1.6x crop DLSRs die? Before the fisrt DSLR, there was no such thing as a 1.3x or 1.5x or 1.6x crop stills camera.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> When Canon decided we would all be better off with the EF mount customers had a choice to either go with them or leave. History would probably suggest that Canon made the right choice. Canon clearly think we are now better off with mirrorless, both in photographic terms and rewarding their shareholders, but this time we can at least continue to use our old EF lenses without any penalty. I always thought that the Rebel range would be chopped in favour of mirrorless as Canon made no attempt to improve the slr experience with these cameras, continuing to use the inferior pentamirror to the end. To be honest the slr experience with the higher end pentaprism cameras has become corrupted compered to what it used to be, without built in diopter adjustments, LCD overlays, AF arrays and translucent mirrors the view through my old manual focus film cameras such as the Nikon FM, Pentax ME/MX is so much clearer than anything we have today, and the medium format Pentax 6x7 is in another league again. But even so, after using the EVF cameras it is always refreshing for me to return to a DSLR.
> 
> EF-m is an interesting one given rumours of its demise because clearly EF-s is on its way out and I believe that camera manufacturers will struggle to sell the 'FF is best' message to many keen photographers who don't habitually shoot in very low light handheld or want razor thin dof. I was interesting to see that here in the UK in our prestigious 'Landscape Photographer of the Year' competition which attracts about 40,000 entries ( !! how DO you judge that ??), and has a £10,000 first prize, was won by a rather pleasing picture taken on a crop sensor.



Every digital EOS camera I've ever owned (7 in all from a Rebel XTi to a 5D Mark IV), plus all the others I've rented/borrowed, have had built-in diopter adjustment. What EOS digital bodies don't have built-in diopter adjustment?


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I'm very surprised this is happening so quickly. With the release of the 1DX III so recent, I had assumed Canon would start doing this in 3-4 years from now. (i.e. a full DSLR product cycle after their last DSLR body).
> 
> I was thinking of selling my 135 F2L... but now, I may just keep it as a momento of my EF days an for the odd chance I ever use it on the R5. With the 85 1.2L being so good... I haven't used it in a very long time...



I will never sell my EF 135/2 L. It's my "from my cold, dead hands" lens.


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## Sporgon (Apr 14, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Every digital EOS camera I've ever owned (7 in all from a Rebel XTi to a 5D Mark IV), plus all the others I've rented/borrowed, have had built-in diopter adjustment. What EOS digital bodies don't have built-in diopter adjustment?


Non. The corruption started early


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

Skux said:


> EF-S lenses being discontinued and yet nothing in the pipeline for entry-level and crop sensor shooters. Is Canon going to offer anything for this price point or are they really banking on the entire vlogger and student/casual photographer market disappearing altogether?



I thinks it's more that they've read the tea leaves that vloggers and student/casual photographers are increasingly abandoning dedicated cameras for smart phones in droves and aren't ever coming back.


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## Ozarker (Apr 14, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> I will never sell my EF 135/2 L. It's my "from my cold, dead hands" lens.


I foolishly sold one in 2019. Bought it back in 2020. Now it’s being discontinued. I’ll never sell again... unless the coming RF 135L turns out to be better.


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## AlanF (Apr 14, 2021)

AlanF said:


> I've been debating with myself whether to sell my 400mm DO II. It's a superb lens but as I get older its relatively light weight has got above my comfortable carrying zone and I am afraid age is a one way process. This discontinuation has tipped the balance so yesterday I decided it's going. It could well go up in price as the RF equivalents will be very expensive but I don't like unused equipment hanging around when others would make good use of it.


It's gone up in price already. I bought it from the best seller of used gear in the UK last November and sold it today to another large dealer for £200 more than I paid for it.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> With all the hand wringing (including by me) I wonder this as well. Not to knock CR or any other rumors site, but "official" means a statement or list from Canon that we can view, or sites like B&H labeling them as such. A few lenses on this list are "official." But some don't make much sense, and the bulk of the list is marked in stock every where you look.
> 
> Doesn't mean CR is wrong as the list could be something only dealers are meant to see.





CanonFanBoy said:


> Give it a year. It will take a while to deplete stocks in the current economy, especially with the collapse of the ILC market.




The list does say that some are scheduled to be discontinued _before the end of 2021_, so not all are discontinued already.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> I hope you’re right but I’ve lost confidence that it’s really coming. There were a lot of “confirmed” 7D Mark III rumors a couple of years ago too.
> 
> Most of my 7Dii shooting is with a 100-400, but I still want a decent crop-mode normal lens (please not another plastic 18-55!), and maybe even wide angle like the 10-18 zoom for the once a year or so that I need it.



Canon made it pretty clear via the rumor mill in 2017 that there would be no 7D Mark III. What rock have you been living under?


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## SteveC (Apr 14, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> I will never sell my EF 135/2 L. It's my "from my cold, dead hands" lens.



Well, that's just lovely. First we have to sell kidneys (either our own or a relative's) to get new gear. 

Now we have to kill someone to get used gear.

(I hasten to add that that is JUST A JOKE.)


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

AlanF said:


> I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to buy the 17-85 - the 15-85 was vast improvement. I had the 17-85 with my 300D.



B&H currently has the EF-S 17-85 for $299 after a $300 instant rebate (MSRP $599).


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> Half the comments here or more are completely nuts. Canon's discontinued practically every lens they've ever made. So has every other manufacturer. Never has discontinuing a lens been described as an "insult" to the user base, so why take it as such now!??!
> 
> You guys are whining that Canon's not going to continue to sell and support these models forever? How about you guys: if they did would you keep buying it?
> 
> ...



I bought an EF 1.4X III last year. A 135/2 from the Canon Refurb Store in 2017. Was planning on picking up an EF 35mm f/2 IS USM in the near future, but they're getting hard to find.

If the gen 2 or gen 3 versions of your gen 1 lenses are still current, that's not quite the same thing as a discontinued lens that has no replacement in a newer generation.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

jeffa4444 said:


> While Canon are still selling the 1D X MKIV, 5D MKIV, 6D MKII, 90D etc. it seems rather disingenuous to not continue selling lenses like the EF 70-200mm f4L MKII as this is a popular lens and only came out a short while ago. Fact is as well the RF lenses are considerably more expensive than their EF counterparts as indeed is the R5 in comparison to the price of the 5DS / 5DSr when they launched even taking inflation into consideration.
> As a life-long Canon user now recently retired I feel Canon maybe pushing me into the Olympus system completely. Ive long had an Olympus OM-D E-M10 as a simple walk around camera with three zooms and as Im not selling commercially the output from something like the OM-D E-M1 MKIII with Zuiko Pro lenses is way cheaper rather than buying say the R6 with the RF 70-200mm f4L. I bought the EOS R which has many failings and whilst the RF 24-105mm f4L is a good lens that cannot be said for the RF 24-240mm which for the price sucks.
> Canon I feel are at least in the UK pricing themselves out of the market and it will be interesting to see how they fair against the competition especially attracting new users.
> 
> So I shall be holding onto my 5DS with the EF 24-70mm f2.8L USM II, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM II, EF 85 f1.4L IS USM, EF 100mm f2.8L IS USM this is my go to portrait package. I sold my 6D MKII when I bought the EOS R and the EF f4L trinity lenses I had with it, in hind sight that was a mistake. For landscape Im considering the Olympus set-up as the R6 & RF 70-200mm f4L will set me back £ 4,218.00. The Olympus OM-D E-M1 MKIII with the Zuiko 12-40mm f2.8 Pro & the 40-150mm f2.8 Pro is £ 3,098. Similar story if you look at Fuji.



I don't know about prices in the UK, but here in the U.S. the 5Ds R debuted in 2015 for the *exact same price* the EOS R5 debuted for last year. If inflation is taken into account, the $3,899 +tax for the 5Ds R in 2015 is worth $4,357.31 today. The 5Ds was $3,699 on introduction, which translates to $4,133.80 today.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> Non. The corruption started early


You make no sense. Are you saying it's bad because they *do* have built-in diopter adjustment? Because they all _*do*_ have it.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Apr 14, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Canon made it pretty clear via the rumor mill in 2017 that there would be no 7D Mark III.



The statements "Canon made it pretty clear" and "via the rumor mill" cannot be simultaneously true. Big companies like Canon rarely issue clear statements that they *won't* do something. It would be unwise for them to limit their future options if market conditions change.

Do a search on canonrumors.com for "7D Mark III". The latest three postings in chronological order are:

"EOS 7D Mark II Coming in March 2018 [CR1]" - November 24, 2017
"Canon EOS 7D Mark III to Have Slight Crop in 4K [CR2]" - January 3, 2018
"We're Not Convinced an EOS 7D Mark III is Coming in 2018" - January 11, 2018

The last article certainly pours cold water on it, but it doesn't state that it's never coming. It talks more about "unfocused chatter" and speculates that "the earliest it would be coming is Q4 of 2018". Reading that in January 2018, it's far from "pretty clear... that there would be no 7D Mark III".

I'm not saying that this site is the be-all and end-all of Canon rumors, but IMO this is the best among the ones I've found.



Michael Clark said:


> What rock have you been living under?



Michael, I deeply regret if you were offended by something in my response to Fletchahh's posting, compelling you to respond in that way. Rereading my original response, I feel I was courteous and respectful to @Fletchahh. I acknowledged that I hoped he was right, but I also simply stated that I've lost faith.

I would love to be proven wrong!

Mike


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## dominic_siu (Apr 15, 2021)

mdcmdcmdc said:


> The statements "Canon made it pretty clear" and "via the rumor mill" cannot be simultaneously true. Big companies like Canon rarely issue clear statements that they *won't* do something. It would be unwise for them to limit their future options if market conditions change.
> 
> Do a search on canonrumors.com for "7D Mark III". The latest three postings in chronological order are:
> 
> ...


There won’t be any DSLR coming from Canon anymore I’m pretty sure as you see how Canon pushes the RF system in this two years especially after R5/6 debut.


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## Sporgon (Apr 15, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> You make no sense. Are you saying it's bad because they *do* have built-in diopter adjustment? Because they all _*do*_ have it.


Yes. I never referred to just digital slrs. The add ons to the optical viewfinders started in the film days. I'll re quote my own post:



Sporgon said:


> To be honest the slr experience with the higher end pentaprism cameras has become corrupted compered to what it used to be, without built in diopter adjustments, LCD overlays, AF arrays and translucent mirrors the* view through my old manual focus film cameras such as the Nikon FM, Pentax ME/MX is so much clearer than anything we have today,* and the *medium format Pentax 6x7 is in another league again. *


I said "higher end" because the lower end used the pentamirror which was inferior before any additional interference. I can see now that saying "pentaprism cameras" was misleading as I meant slrs. The viewfinder on my Nikon FM and F3 is far clearer and sharper than that in my EOS 1n for instance. 

So the 'corruption' of the perfect optical reflex viewfinder started a long time ago. Most recently we have the transmissive lcd display. You probably already know this but take the battery out of your 5DIV and see how dark the viewfinder goes. Obviously though many of these things gave us other benefits which have been appreciated over the years. 

Hope that makes sense now. I'm always dismayed when someone thinks I'm not making sense as it may give away my true character.


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## Skux (Apr 16, 2021)

I was doing some browsing and it appears the EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM is no longer available either.


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## Ruined (Apr 23, 2021)

dilbert said:


> If Canon is going to discontinue all of their EF lineup then it would be good to see some leadership from Canon with regards to the e-waste situation that they are now setting up. What does that mean? Offering trade-ins for owners of EF cameras and lenses so that those discontinued models don't just end up in land fill and go back to Canon for Canon to take responsibility for disposing of.


Excellent points. Especially with the side grade mirrorless is that is going to generate all this e-waste.


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## Ruined (Apr 23, 2021)

Skux said:


> I was doing some browsing and it appears the EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM is no longer available either.


I actually had this a long time ago and it was nice on aps-c , but is kind of in no man's land for FF IMO. The 24mm f/2.8 IS USM is better if you want a super light FF landscape lens (altho worth the extra weight for IQ and sealing of the 16-35 f/4L IMO anyway) and the 35mm f/2 IS USM is faster with a more popular focal length for general wide usage on FF. I am not sure what I would use the 28mm to shoot on FF.


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## tron (Apr 23, 2021)

dilbert said:


> If Canon is going to discontinue all of their EF lineup then it would be good to see some leadership from Canon with regards to the e-waste situation that they are now setting up. What does that mean? Offering trade-ins for owners of EF cameras and lenses so that those discontinued models don't just end up in land fill and go back to Canon for Canon to take responsibility for disposing of.


NO WORRIES! I am willing to recycle for free all big white EF lenses


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## SteveC (Apr 23, 2021)

tron said:


> NO WORRIES! I am willing to recycle for free all big white EF lenses



I imagine you might even pay the shipping!

I'll go further. I will _pay_ $1000 for the 1200mm big white--the one that got discontinued years ago, so surely it's utter trash that needs to be disposed of!

Seriously, there seems to be this notion that the lenses _instantly_ become worthless when they are discontinued. Maybe if you are the sort who _must_ have the latest and greatest (perhaps even basing your sense of self-worth on it), but not, objectively speaking.

In fact the lens I am most likely to buy next is an EF lens, and given what I plan to do with it, an RF version would be next to useless, even if it existed, which it doesn't.


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## tron (Apr 23, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I imagine you might even pay the shipping!
> 
> I'll go further. I will _pay_ $1000 for the 1200mm big white--the one that got discontinued years ago, so surely it's utter trash that needs to be disposed of!
> 
> ...


I will keep my big whites (300II,400DOII,500II) too (and some other EF lenses). I would lose stupidly big amounts of money if I were to replace them with RF versions.


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## becceric (Apr 23, 2021)

tron said:


> I will keep my big whites (300II,400DOII,500II) too (and some other EF lenses). I would lose stupidly big amounts of money if I were to replace them with RF versions.


Since Canon has gone full speed ahead with the EF discontinuation this spring, I‘ve been keeping my eyes open for a new 600mm iii. My fingers are crossed in hopes that B&H’s return to stock notification will land in my email box soon...


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## HeavyPiper (Apr 23, 2021)

tron said:


> NO WORRIES! I am willing to recycle for free all big white EF lenses


I'm willing help


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## Skux (Apr 25, 2021)

Ruined said:


> I actually had this a long time ago and it was nice on aps-c , but is kind of in no man's land for FF IMO. The 24mm f/2.8 IS USM is better if you want a super light FF landscape lens (altho worth the extra weight for IQ and sealing of the 16-35 f/4L IMO anyway) and the 35mm f/2 IS USM is faster with a more popular focal length for general wide usage on FF. I am not sure what I would use the 28mm to shoot on FF.


I shoot film as well and 28mm is a perfect "everyday wide" for me. The Canon FD 28mm f/2.8 is the one I take on walk-around street shoots (paired with a 50mm) and to parties. I find 24mm a little too wide where 28mm looks wide but not unnaturally so.


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## Ruined (Apr 25, 2021)

Skux said:


> I shoot film as well and 28mm is a perfect "everyday wide" for me. The Canon FD 28mm f/2.8 is the one I take on walk-around street shoots (paired with a 50mm) and to parties. I find 24mm a little too wide where 28mm looks wide but not unnaturally so.


When I do "everyday/street" its either the 35mm f/2 IS or the 50mm f/1.2L depending on the location. I agree the 24mm gives too much perspective distortion for everyday, which makes it more suitable for landscape. I also find though even 35mm gives a little more perspective distortion than I'd like sometimes for everyday/street, so 28mm is out of the question for me in the everyday/street category.


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## afolickman (Apr 26, 2021)

Wow, they can't wait to get rid of the EF lenses.


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## cayenne (Apr 26, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I imagine you might even pay the shipping!
> 
> I'll go further. I will _pay_ $1000 for the 1200mm big white--the one that got discontinued years ago, so surely it's utter trash that needs to be disposed of!
> 
> ...



Hell, I may be able to do you one better.
I"m currently hunting about for really good deals on old FD lenses that adapted quite readily to mirrorless cameras!!

Right now, looking for a deal on a minty looking FD 85mm f/1.2.....an old L lens that is still quite highly rated.

Even with my bad eyes, the focus assist on mirrorless cameras lets me use them...AND....you aren't stuck with only using the manual lenses on just one body...they work on almost ALL of them.

Just my $0.02,

cayenne


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## Rocky (Apr 26, 2021)

Skux said:


> I shoot film as well and 28mm is a perfect "everyday wide" for me. The Canon FD 28mm f/2.8 is the one I take on walk-around street shoots (paired with a 50mm) and to parties. I find 24mm a little too wide where 28mm looks wide but not unnaturally so.


Can you tell we why you are shooting film ( in 35mm format)? I was doing a lot of scanning ( 35mm Kodachrome slide, 35mm negatives and 4X6 Photos). I found out that nthe Kodachrome gives me the sharpest ( about 20 Meg pixel) and excellent color. The color negatives (Kodak color) give me about 15 Meg resolution, while the 6X4 photos give me about 10 Meg Pixel , both give me less color defintion. May be I do not have a good lab for the film development and enlargement ??


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## Skux (Apr 26, 2021)

Rocky said:


> Can you tell we why you are shooting film ( in 35mm format)? I was doing a lot of scanning ( 35mm Kodachrome slide, 35mm negatives and 4X6 Photos). I found out that nthe Kodachrome gives me the sharpest ( about 20 Meg pixel) and excellent color. The color negatives give me about 15 Meg resolution, while the 6X6 give me about 10 Meg Pixel , both give me less color defintion. May be I do not have a good lab??


My lab provides 35mm scans at about 3600x2400 (8mp). I don't know much about scanners but they use a "converted Noritsu V30SM C41 Processor".

The photos are high enough resolution for social media, desktop wallpapers and prints, so I'm pretty satisfied.


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## cayenne (Apr 27, 2021)

Rocky said:


> Can you tell we why you are shooting film ( in 35mm format)? I was doing a lot of scanning ( 35mm Kodachrome slide, 35mm negatives and 4X6 Photos). I found out that nthe Kodachrome gives me the sharpest ( about 20 Meg pixel) and excellent color. The color negatives give me about 15 Meg resolution, while the 6X6 give me about 10 Meg Pixel , both give me less color defintion. May be I do not have a good lab??


My film shooting is almost exclusively 120 MF film. I shoot 6x6, 6x9, 6x12(pinhole on this one), and 6x17 on a view camera.

I shoot these mostly due to the unique perspectives...especially the 6x17 panoramic camera. There's not a digital camera in the world right now that I know of that can shoot that per shot.

I can throw filters on there and do long exposures that are simply not possible with multi-shooting and stitching with digital.

I"m about to soon venture into 4x5 which, and I may be wrong on this, still has a bit of an edge over most common digital cameras....certainly it seems to me to have a look that isn't really reproducible on digital.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVEs me some digital, but film is fun too.

I'm working now to try to get an old 35mm film camera custom fixed to open up the film gate so that it shoots panoramic that is actually a bit wider than the old Hassy/Fuji Xpan used to shoot on film....I"m pairing it with a Mamiya Press 50mm lens.

And of late, I'm having fun mixing the two worlds....old vintage lenses are amazingly fun (to me) to adapt to digital mirrorless cameras.

New lenses are great, but sometimes can be described as "clinically" sharp....vintage lenses often are not and can give you some artistic looks many find desirable.

Film gives looks too.....

There's plenty of reasons that plenty of people still like film...it seems to be gaining popularity even.

I'm even looking into YouTube videos showing cyanotypes....platinum paladium printing....very artistic and interestingly enough...the PP printing from what I hear is one of the longest lasting archival methods of creating prints there is.

Those need a negative....either film or maybe printed negative from a digital capture.

Ugh...ok, sorry....rant mode off.


Anyway...lots of interesting areas of photography out there.

cayenne


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## Rocky (Apr 27, 2021)

Cayenne,

Thanks for the explanation. I can fully understand people shot film with 120MF even now, especially B/W. The 120 MF DO give us a distinct look on picture. I shot 120MF and 135 in the good old film days too ( Pre 70's). VIVA Rollieflex.


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## SteveC (Apr 27, 2021)

Platinum-Palladium printing can't be cheap! Platinum is on a fire sale right now at a mere $1200-$1300, much lower than gold, but palladium broke through $3000 an ounce today. (All prices USD.)


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## Ruined (Apr 28, 2021)

afolickman said:


> Wow, they can't wait to get rid of the EF lenses.


It's a win - win for Canon

In doing so they can:

1. Try to snooker people into trading in all their EF stuff and buying all new RF stuff, making great profits with the big margins on RF gear and fact people are buying mostly new instead of used

2. For those who don't want RF, create demand for very old EF lenses and charge a premium for what's left on the market in new condition, making more profit than they usually would as people overpay for old tech to get it before it's gone

3. Leave the door open to releasing brand new EF designs sometime in the future to people who refuse to upgrade to RF, which they can sell to people who bought the old stuff in step #2 and get a double high-margin sale


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## Ozarker (Apr 28, 2021)

cayenne said:


> My film shooting is almost exclusively 120 MF film. I shoot 6x6, 6x9, 6x12(pinhole on this one), and 6x17 on a view camera.
> 
> I shoot these mostly due to the unique perspectives...especially the 6x17 panoramic camera. There's not a digital camera in the world right now that I know of that can shoot that per shot.
> 
> ...


I always try to catch your film posts as I enjoy reading about it, and your enthusiasm for it. I wish I had the wear with all to set up a darkroom and try some of the medium format stuff you do.


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## cayenne (Apr 28, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Platinum-Palladium printing can't be cheap! Platinum is on a fire sale right now at a mere $1200-$1300, much lower than gold, but palladium broke through $3000 an ounce today. (All prices USD.)


Interesting.

I've not looked into the costs of the chemicals, etc.....and it appears to be a little pricey from the videos, but I didn't get the impression that it was cost prohibitive.

Ok I found a starter kit here for $248:

Bostick-Sullivan: Na2 Platinum/Palladium Kit For Digital Negatives

It really looks interesting as a process....and you can even do it to your digital shots, but using your printer to print out a negative onto what appears to be similar to sheets of plastic used on old overhead projectors back in the day.

C


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## SteveC (Apr 28, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I've not looked into the costs of the chemicals, etc.....and it appears to be a little pricey from the videos, but I didn't get the impression that it was cost prohibitive.
> 
> ...



How many can you do with that starter kit?


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## cayenne (Apr 28, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I always try to catch your film posts as I enjoy reading about it, and your enthusiasm for it. I wish I had the wear with all to set up a darkroom and try some of the medium format stuff you do.


OH thank you!!

But just to be clear, so far, I have not done any developing on my own.

I found a great place near me that does my 120 MF film development for I think about $6 a roll or so. And the turnaround is usually 1-2 days, but I've had occasion where they did it same day.

That being said, I do plan to buy some basic Paterson system tanks and all for developing my own film....it looks fun and while there is a bit of a learning curve, doesn't appear to be rocket surgery to learn.


I know a lot of this is GAS, but also just pure interest in new things to me. I'm looking to maybe pick up an cheap 4x5 large format camera, from Intrepid.
I'm actually a bit excited about this, for multiple reason....believe it or no, the prime reason would be to hook up the coming tomography Instax adapter for LF 4x5 cameras!! I've watched videos on this with beta units and it looks like a blast, to get polaroid type prints with LF depth of field, looks.

I also am looking to experiment with adapters I"ve seen that let you hook your Canon and Fuji cameras to the back of the 4x5 and not only do multiple shots to capture the full frame and for panos...but also to be able to use tilt/shift/rise/fall and of course...the interesting look using LF lenses.

I would also like at some point to actually try 4x5 sheet film too...but I found my place near me doesn't do LF film, so, I would be forced to try to develop myself. I'd start with B&W as that it appears to be a simpler process and that's where I'd cut my teeth.

OH well....I just need to win the lottery, just so I could ditch the day job and have time to learn all this fun stuff.

Ok...ramble mode off....haha.

Thanks!!

C


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## cayenne (Apr 28, 2021)

SteveC said:


> How many can you do with that starter kit?


Per the link I set :

"This kit contains everything you need to make 35 8"x10" images. By using a combination of Palladium and Platinum you save up to 35% versus printing pure Platinum."

So, yes, it is a bit pricey....I think that you can save a bit of money if you buy the dry chemicals and mix things yourself, but just to get started this seems to be the way to go.

The interesting thing I'm hearing is that this is one of the most permanent and best archival methods still of printing for long term preservation.

I guess sometimes they get it right the first time....oh so many years ago.


Fun stuff.

C


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## stevelee (Apr 28, 2021)

I decided to check on prices for the TS-E 24mm last night, and discovered that it is apparently backordered. I don't know what if anything that means. It is a good thing, because it was a weak moment for me, and I might have made an impulse purchase.

I can't think of any other lens that would be of any use to me, and I wouldn't use it a lot. The money that I didn't spend on traveling over the last year is just sitting there in my checking account, so I probably wouldn't miss the money for one impulse buy. My iPad is getting long in the tooth and the battery is getting old. It might be the best candidate for an impulse replacement, given the $190 trade-in from my old one, 3% cash back, and extended payments I won't notice. I don't do anything with the iPad that needs an M1 chip, and the battery is not an issue until I start traveling again. Maybe that's an old guy thing, not particularly needing or wanting anything I don't already have.


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## cayenne (Apr 28, 2021)

stevelee said:


> I decided to check on prices for the TS-E 24mm last night, and discovered that it is apparently backordered. I don't know what if anything that means. It is a good thing, because it was a weak moment for me, and I might have made an impulse purchase.
> 
> I can't think of any other lens that would be of any use to me, and I wouldn't use it a lot. The money that I didn't spend on traveling over the last year is just sitting there in my checking account, so I probably wouldn't miss the money for one impulse buy. My iPad is getting long in the tooth and the battery is getting old. It might be the best candidate for an impulse replacement, given the $190 trade-in from my old one, 3% cash back, and extended payments I won't notice. I don't do anything with the iPad that needs an M1 chip, and the battery is not an issue until I start traveling again. Maybe that's an old guy thing, not particularly needing or wanting anything I don't already have.


Interesting on the lens. Let us know what turns out with that one.
I've still be eyeballing that one myself.

My 2017 iPad Pro is starting to show a bit of battery age too....I looked on Apple's site and it's only like $90 for a battery replacement by them, I might do that in the near future.

I'd love the new one, but I rarely buy a 1.0 version of anything and I'll wait likely till they have a M2 iPad Pro (they M2 chips are reportedly coming this summer).....I'm also anxious to see what they do with the tablet M1 plus updated iPadOS, and see if Apple will start to more convene the laptop with the tablet.

I have more camera gear to buy anyway this summer so will save my $'s for that.

I just need to hit the powerball.....to help my GAS problem, and so that I can ditch the pesky day job and have more time to play with my toys.


cayenne


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## stevelee (Apr 28, 2021)

I don’t think the M1 chip is really a version 1, in spite of the name. It is more of a tweak on the chips they have been using in iPad Pros for a while, and it seems to be doing fine in the new Macs. It is way overkill for the things I do with the iPad. The Air has an older chip, and might be a better choice for either of us. But there would be an unnoticeable difference in the monthly payments, and I tend to future proof my purchases and keep things a long time. I’m still happy with my iMac from 2014 that has no problems or delays with Photoshop or editing 4K in FCP X.

So my decision between a new battery or a new iPad is liable to go like my decision in December of 2019 between new tires for my old car or buying a new Audi A4.

The M2 chip I believe is destined for the high end Macs. I doubt we we see them in tablets or even smaller iMacs any time soon. Maybe the prospect of an M2 larger iMac will keep me from buying something else on impulse.


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## MythPlayer (Jan 6, 2022)

Any news about discontinued lens in 2022?

This is my guess :
EF 17-40mm F4L USM,EF-S 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS STM (delist product lineup from some canon asia offical website)
EF 50mm F1.4 USM (source from Local reseller in october)
EF 28-300 F3.5-5.6L IS USM,EF-S 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS STM(empty stock notice from canon japan official webstie)
All versions EF-S 18-55 Lens?(It's weird,canon usa website had only EF-S 18-55 IS II on list;canon japan website only EF-5 18-55 IS STM on list;canon china list 3 versions EF-S 18-55 lens,but all version 18-55 lens price tag are removed)


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## Michael Clark (Jan 6, 2022)

privatebydesign said:


> This is great news. I am very happy to live in the discontinued EF universe. The lenses are going to be bargains as people dump them because? Well no real reason at all...



Have you looked at used EF lens prices lately?


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## Sporgon (Jan 6, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> Have you looked at used EF lens prices lately?


Here in the UK used EF lens prices are certainly very strong. I’ve moved into the R system with a RP and R as a small FF camera, I will only keep one, I’m not sure which one yet. However I’ll only be buying EF lenses as I’m still committed to my 5DS cameras. The 40mm pancake on the RP is sweet.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 6, 2022)

Sporgon said:


> The 40mm pancake on the RP is sweet.


When going to an event with my 1D X where the 70-200/2.8 was the needed lens, it was useful to have along a normal lens that literally fit in a pocket. If needed, I could swap the 40/2.8 on and leave the 70-200 hanging from my BlackRapid strap.

Unfortunately the EF pancake plus adapter is too big for a pocket (at least for me, I don’t wear cargo pants). It would be great if they come out with an RF pancake lens.


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## Sporgon (Jan 6, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Unfortunately the EF pancake plus adapter is too big for a pocket (at least for me, I don’t wear cargo pants). It would be great if they come out with an RF pancake lens.


Hey @neuroanatomist, I thought you had deep pockets ! 
I agree the 40 is really useful being so small but retaining good IQ - apart from the very bad field curvature. The only problem I have with that lens is I keep forgetting where I put it last and losing it….


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## Doormat (Jan 23, 2022)

I read this a year ago before I joined.
Yes, progress is inevitable and of course it ensures products are ‘generally’ better for it. But, and it’s a major BUT for me, I do think it’s easy to lose sight of what or why we came to photography in the first instance - to capture a image.

Now, don’t get me wrong I love kit, my bulging cupboards and depleted bank accounts prove it so. But I must say all this whipped up frenzy and must have latest items…at all costs (or what’s the point??) is leaving me questioning my own personal motives. Do I actually want to take pictures or do I want to play with the latest toys!

I’m not proud to admit my canon branded lens collection is somewhere in the 70 mark, my DSLR collection somewhere in the 20 mark, yet my desire/need to purchase constantly better hasn’t moved me on in my creativity, if anything that area has stagnated (embarrassed to say). 
I’m currently in awe of the recent M system, sharper, lighter than my aps-c DSLR’s specifically when paired with the M primes - WOW!!
And I expect the R and RF to be nothing short of mind blowing. But it’s a far cry from from the simplicity it all was once.
I think the bottom line for me is that progress has actually stalled me, my now discontinued EF lenses and discontinued Full Frame DSLR’s are still capable, but wouldn’t this next generation deliver even better….
And so the cycle continues, not moving on, just trying to keep up with progress.

Yes, I miss the ignorance I had in the early days, of not knowing or even caring what else was out there…I was too busy taking pictures to care!


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## dominic_siu (Jan 23, 2022)

Doormat said:


> I read this a year ago before I joined.
> Yes, progress is inevitable and of course it ensures products are ‘generally’ better for it. But, and it’s a major BUT for me, I do think it’s easy to lose sight of what or why we came to photography in the first instance - to capture a image.
> 
> Now, don’t get me wrong I love kit, my bulging cupboards and depleted bank accounts prove it so. But I must say all this whipped up frenzy and must have latest items…at all costs (or what’s the point??) is leaving me questioning my own personal motives. Do I actually want to take pictures or do I want to play with the latest toys!
> ...


EF and EF-M will eventually gone, this is sad but true


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## AlanF (Jan 23, 2022)

Doormat said:


> I read this a year ago before I joined.
> Yes, progress is inevitable and of course it ensures products are ‘generally’ better for it. But, and it’s a major BUT for me, I do think it’s easy to lose sight of what or why we came to photography in the first instance - to capture a image.
> 
> Now, don’t get me wrong I love kit, my bulging cupboards and depleted bank accounts prove it so. But I must say all this whipped up frenzy and must have latest items…at all costs (or what’s the point??) is leaving me questioning my own personal motives. Do I actually want to take pictures or do I want to play with the latest toys!
> ...


Maybe you should recycle the DSLRs and lenses you rarely use. I sell off my old when I get new so others can enjoy my well looked-after cameras and lenses.


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## Doormat (Jan 23, 2022)

Like most of you chaps I pamper my gear - too expensive to mistreat…right??
My partner by comparison shots the SL1 has the stm triplets (10-18,18-55, 55,250) she doesn’t give a hoot, no strap, no dedicated bag, one hood she shares between the 2 longer zooms. Hers has been dropped, got soaked, got scratched etc etc
Mine is vastly more expensive, pampered to death, always capped, always cleaned

now, mine are obsolete, discontinued, I’d pampered them because they were expensive items. The new kids on the block R and M are in vogue with the newer generation, they don’t much want the dslr dinosaurs, yes they will still sell. 
I suppose I could move up and start over, pay £5k+ and pamper them too or I could just think why bother, just use mine to death and when it dies (given the stubbornness of her SL1) then consider the R, by which time I suspect I won’t care much about anything.
It reminds me of a saying a seasoned fisherman once told me, the expensive coloured fishing tackle is to hook the fisherman not the fish!!


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## Czardoom (Jan 23, 2022)

Doormat said:


> Like most of you chaps I pamper my gear - too expensive to mistreat…right??
> My partner by comparison shots the SL1 has the stm triplets (10-18,18-55, 55,250) she doesn’t give a hoot, no strap, no dedicated bag, one hood she shares between the 2 longer zooms. Hers has been dropped, got soaked, got scratched etc etc
> Mine is vastly more expensive, pampered to death, always capped, always cleaned
> 
> ...


Couple opinions....

First off, it is always good to remind oneself that this is a GEAR forum and most participants are for want of a better phrase, gear-heads. So, in general, they are overly excited about new gear and over-exaggerate the quality and how much better the new gear is. Your older lenses are not obsolete. Those more interested in photography rather than gear would laugh at the thought that an EF lens bought within the last 30 years is obsolete. The biggest difference is that many older lenses do not have IS (image stabilization). If IS is important - and you don't have a camera that has IBIS (in-body image stabilization) - then getting newer lenses with IS may be an important factor.

You will find that there are some photographers (not gear-heads) who in fact prefer the older lenses. While perhaps not quite as sharp, or not quite as good at removing chromatic aberrations, they believe that they create better looking photos. Photographers often refer to many of the newer lenses as being "more clinical" and less good at "rendering." These opinions are debated endlessly on the internet, but, in my opinion, their is no good reason to get rid of or replace Canon's EF lenses. They are not that old and optics has not improved that much (if at all) in the past 20-30 years. I have compared some of the older and newer lenses and if I were to generalize, I would say that the improvements in newer lenses are mainly in shooting wide open and a bit of sharpness improvement in the extreme corners. For many these difference may not matter at all, and may only be noticed when pixel peeping.

Keep in mind that most people on forums are pixel peepers. Yes, if you pixel peep, then you might find that blown up to 100% on your computer screen, a newer lens might appear slightly sharper than an older lens, but if you think about it, you realize that unless you crop significantly, you will never notice this small difference. 

I currently do own an R6. Since I bought it, I have purchased used: an EF 80-200mm f/2.8 L (one of the sharpest lenses I have ever owned, by the way and made in the 1990's), an EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L (mark I), an EF 16-35mm f/4 L, along with two RF lenses. These were all "pro" quailty lenses when they were released and still produce results that are of very high quality today, in my opinion.


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## unfocused (Jan 23, 2022)

Doormat said:


> I read this a year ago before I joined.
> Yes, progress is inevitable and of course it ensures products are ‘generally’ better for it. But, and it’s a major BUT for me, I do think it’s easy to lose sight of what or why we came to photography in the first instance - to capture a image.
> 
> Now, don’t get me wrong I love kit, my bulging cupboards and depleted bank accounts prove it so. But I must say all this whipped up frenzy and must have latest items…at all costs (or what’s the point??) is leaving me questioning my own personal motives. Do I actually want to take pictures or do I want to play with the latest toys!
> ...





Doormat said:


> Like most of you chaps I pamper my gear - too expensive to mistreat…right??
> My partner by comparison shots the SL1 has the stm triplets (10-18,18-55, 55,250) she doesn’t give a hoot, no strap, no dedicated bag, one hood she shares between the 2 longer zooms. Hers has been dropped, got soaked, got scratched etc etc
> Mine is vastly more expensive, pampered to death, always capped, always cleaned
> 
> ...


I'm genuinely confused by your posts.

Your words say you came to photography to capture an image, but your actions say otherwise.

Do you seriously mean you have 70 Canon lenses and 20 Canon DSLRs, or is that the total of what you acquired over the years and then sold or traded-in as new models came out? If you truly have that many sitting around, then I'd say you might want to look at your priorities and honestly ask yourself if you are a collector or a photographer. Nothing wrong with collecting gear, but just suggesting that maybe it's time for some honest reflection.

I don't pamper my gear. I don't intentionally abuse it, but it gets more than a fair share of abuse just through usage.

Honestly, it sounds like your wife has the right idea. Use the gear to get the pictures. If I were her, I'd be upset if my spouse were sitting on 70 lenses and 20 cameras and I was stuck with an SL1 and three lenses, especially since two are cheap kit lenses. Maybe you need to be more generous with that gear. Which do you love more, the gear or her?

Unless your gear is no longer usable for shooting, I wouldn't call it obsolete. If those 70 Canon lenses are EF or EF-S mount they can all be used on the R system with a simple adapter. They are never going to become obsolete, although they will be replaced by newer RF models that may have features or characteristics that represent improvements.

As for the cameras, no digital camera is a long-term investment. They are electronic devices and like all electronic devices they get replaced by newer models. The question is, do the newer models offer anything you want? If not, then keep using what you have and don't worry about it. If the newer models offer something you want, then sell the old stuff and get the new. No sense crying over spilt milk. Cameras are investments only in the sense that they are investment in either your personal satisfaction or your business. In either case, once they quit serving their purpose, just cut your losses and move on.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you've got a case of Fear of Missing Out. You seem afraid that your old gear is going to be worthless and you think you might be missing out on something by not going mirrorless. But, you can't seem to articulate or justify why you should switch. So, the decision is up to you. Will you be happier shooting with the equipment you already have, or with new equipment?

Here's a suggestion. Sell some of that equipment and use it towards an R5, RF 24-105, RF 100-400 and RF 16 for your wife. Give it all to her at the next holiday and let her enjoy taking pictures with gear that she can appreciate and use. Then, maybe find yourself a new hobby that's more rewarding for you.


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## Del Paso (Jan 23, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> Couple opinions....
> 
> First off, it is always good to remind oneself that this is a GEAR forum and most participants are for want of a better phrase, gear-heads. So, in general, they are overly excited about new gear and over-exaggerate the quality and how much better the new gear is. Your older lenses are not obsolete. Those more interested in photography rather than gear would laugh at the thought that an EF lens bought within the last 30 years is obsolete. The biggest difference is that many older lenses do not have IS (image stabilization). If IS is important - and you don't have a camera that has IBIS (in-body image stabilization) - then getting newer lenses with IS may be an important factor.
> 
> ...


You are basically right.
Nevertheless, many old WA lenses which were considered excellent in "film times" can prove disappointing in digital.
So, I had to get rid of 2 lenses I formerly loved: a 1968 Summicron 35mm and a Zuiko 2,8/24mm. They were almost unsusable for landscapes below f11, corners were mushy. But from 50mm upwards, no issues. Of course, it also depends on your style of photography, I could have kept them for street...
On the other hand, I'm still using-quite often- my vintage 50 to 280mm lenses with very good results.


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## stevelee (Jan 23, 2022)

dominic_siu said:


> EF and EF-M will eventually gone, this is sad but true


And so are we all.


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## Doormat (Jan 23, 2022)

unfocused said:


> I'm genuinely confused by your posts.
> 
> Your words say you came to photography to capture an image, but your actions say otherwise.
> 
> ...


Lol
She can have anything she wants, yet she is happy with the SL1 and her 3 STM’s - to be fair she knows the camera inside out and can navigate her way round at lightening speed!!
I have M, EF and EF-S and L’s
I did use to sell on but had a very bad experience selling on eBay (scammers) - hence I no longer do. The trade in value in camera stores is pitiful against full RRP of new gear - I hate (detest) the idea of lining peoples pockets So, I find that I buy, try, compare used items on eBay - hence the large collection. Some of it is duplicated as used bodies came with lenses I already owned. 
But as is often said of canon, they deliberately cripple bodies to ensure no one body has all the features unless it’s their flagship line thus ensure a ready supply of eager buyers for its next release….. The R5 & R3 are ludicrous sums of money for what is essentially new tech and will quickly be obsolete as the technology races ahead. There is already a glutton of RP R6 on eBay as sellers try to sell to fund the R5/3 upgrade
Too eager to buy the latest/greatest they paid through the nose, now expect someone will pay likewise, but many buyers are savvy enough to realise the used prices drop off a cliff the moment the newer model is released and canon is storming ahead doing its damndest to ram the R down our throats. So, like many DSLR users I’ll sit back and bide my time. My 5diii’s and 6d’s are still far more capable than I.


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## dominic_siu (Jan 24, 2022)

Doormat said:


> Lol
> She can have anything she wants, yet she is happy with the SL1 and her 3 STM’s - to be fair she knows the camera inside out and can navigate her way round at lightening speed!!
> I have M, EF and EF-S and L’s
> I did use to sell on but had a very bad experience selling on eBay (scammers) - hence I no longer do. The trade in value in camera stores is pitiful against full RRP of new gear - I hate (detest) the idea of lining peoples pockets So, I find that I buy, try, compare used items on eBay - hence the large collection. Some of it is duplicated as used bodies came with lenses I already owned.
> ...


Longer the time the resell value of those EF stuffs drop even more. Camera equipments are tools only not any investment IMO. For me I have dumbed all EF stuff since the introduction of R system and I’m very please with the results I got. Now I use R5 and I can also shoot some nice video clips of my kids too.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 30, 2022)

dominic_siu said:


> Longer the time the resell value of those EF stuffs drop even more. Camera equipments are tools only not any investment IMO. For me I have dumbed all EF stuff since the introduction of R system and I’m very please with the results I got. Now I use R5 and I can also shoot some nice video clips of my kids too.



Have you tried to buy a nice, clean copy of some of the recently discontinued EF lenses? Used EF 135mm f/2, EF 85mm f/1.8, EF 35mm f/2 IS, etc. lenses are NOT dropping in value.


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## Doormat (Jan 30, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> Have you tried to buy a nice, clean copy of some of the recently discontinued EF lenses? Used EF 135mm f/2, EF 85mm f/1.8, EF 35mm f/2 IS, etc. lenses are NOT dropping in value.


Exactly, seems many were in such a rush to discard their old kit for the newer shinier models they didn’t stop to consider that even tho canon has stopped production, the new R will be out of reach for many. A used dslr and maybe a few used lenses is a great starting point. But now production has ceased many (like myself) will keep their old kit thus pushing prices up on stuff available.

For the record, I will buy a R at some point in the future. But prices are crazy atm, I’ll bide my time and play with my M system to feed my mirrorless urge.


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## Doormat (Jan 30, 2022)

Doormat said:


> Exactly, seems many were in such a rush to discard their old kit for the newer shinier models they didn’t stop to consider that even tho canon has stopped production, the new R will be out of reach for many. A used dslr and maybe a few used lenses is a great starting point. But now production has ceased many (like myself) will keep their old kit thus pushing prices up on stuff available.
> 
> For the record, I will buy a R at some point in the future. But prices are crazy atm, I’ll bide my time and play with my M system to feed my mirrorless urge.


Just to add…
They’ve stopped production on the last generation of fast IS primes
24is, 28is, 35is, 70-300is ii
I have all these plus their older EF versions. Superb glass regardless if it’s now considered obsolete.


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## dominic_siu (Jan 31, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> Have you tried to buy a nice, clean copy of some of the recently discontinued EF lenses? Used EF 135mm f/2, EF 85mm f/1.8, EF 35mm f/2 IS, etc. lenses are NOT dropping in value.


In HK both resell price and 2nd hand price dropping, all of these 3 lenses are not on shelves of camera shops and major electronic shops


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## cayenne (Jan 31, 2022)

Doormat said:


> Exactly, seems many were in such a rush to discard their old kit for the newer shinier models they didn’t stop to consider that even tho canon has stopped production, the new R will be out of reach for many. A used dslr and maybe a few used lenses is a great starting point. But now production has ceased many (like myself) will keep their old kit thus pushing prices up on stuff available.
> 
> For the record, I will buy a R at some point in the future. But prices are crazy atm, I’ll bide my time and play with my M system to feed my mirrorless urge.


I don't get the rush to sell off the EF lenses if you get a RF system.

I mean, one simple adapter away and you can keep using your very good older glass...no?

C


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## unfocused (Jan 31, 2022)

cayenne said:


> I don't get the rush to sell off the EF lenses if you get a RF system...



I can only speak for myself. I've sold off all but two of my EF lenses (100 macro and 8-15 fisheye). I sold several that I simply didn't use enough to justify keeping (70-300 mm L, for example). In other cases the RF lenses have advantages that I appreciate. 70-200 f2.8 RF for example is lighter and more compact. The 100-500 RF has an additional 100mm focal length and is lighter. I currently own five RF lenses. I used to own about a dozen EF lenses. Switching to RF was an incentive to pare things down to lenses I actually use. I didn't object to the adapters, but it's nice to have fewer lenses and not have to worry about switching out the adapters.


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## unfocused (Feb 1, 2022)

cayenne said:


> I don't get the rush to sell off the EF lenses if you get a RF system.


Adding to my earlier comment. Another reason to "rush" is rising prices on RF lenses. My 100-500 RF was delivered in August. As of today's latest price increases, it is now $200 more. It used to be that it paid to wait a few years after a lens release, because the price usually dropped. But in today's upside-down COVID world, it's cheaper to buy now than wait and unless you pre-order, you may not be able to get a lens when you want it.


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## koenkooi (Feb 1, 2022)

unfocused said:


> Adding to my earlier comment. Another reason to "rush" is rising prices on RF lenses. My 100-500 RF was delivered in August. As of today's latest price increases, it is now $200 more. It used to be that it paid to wait a few years after a lens release, because the price usually dropped. But in today's upside-down COVID world, it's cheaper to buy now than wait and unless you pre-order, you may not be able to get a lens when you want it.


For me it was the perceived wait, not the expected price increase that made me jump on the 100-500. Last month I received an email from one of the places where I pre-ordered saying they have an RF100-500 in stock. That's almost a year and a half after it was released!


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## cayenne (Feb 2, 2022)

unfocused said:


> I can only speak for myself. I've sold off all but two of my EF lenses (100 macro and 8-15 fisheye). I sold several that I simply didn't use enough to justify keeping (70-300 mm L, for example). In other cases the RF lenses have advantages that I appreciate. 70-200 f2.8 RF for example is lighter and more compact. The 100-500 RF has an additional 100mm focal length and is lighter. I currently own five RF lenses. I used to own about a dozen EF lenses. Switching to RF was an incentive to pare things down to lenses I actually use. I didn't object to the adapters, but it's nice to have fewer lenses and not have to worry about switching out the adapters.


Don't you just usually leave the adapter on the camera and just swap out the EF lenses off/on the adapter that stays on the camera.

I'm assuming this as that I will likely get a RF body in the somewhat near future....but likely won't be buying any RF glass for quite awhile.

cayenne


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## unfocused (Feb 2, 2022)

cayenne said:


> Don't you just usually leave the adapter on the camera and just swap out the EF lenses off/on the adapter that stays on the camera.
> 
> I'm assuming this as that I will likely get a RF body in the somewhat near future....but likely won't be buying any RF glass for quite awhile.
> 
> cayenne


That works fine as long as you don't have any RF lenses. But, once you start buying RF lenses then it's easier to leave the adapter mounted on an EF lens.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 15, 2022)

dominic_siu said:


> In HK both resell price and 2nd hand price dropping, all of these 3 lenses are not on shelves of camera shops and major electronic shops



Get 'em while they're hot, then. 

Used prices for grade 8 or grade 9 copies of the EF 135mm f/2 L here in the U.S. are only a few dollars less that what I paid for mine new. Ditto for the EF 35mm f/2 IS if you can find one for sale. The EF 85mm f/1.8 is still available new at a few online retailers the last time I looked, but used prices for that lens have also began to creep up, too.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 15, 2022)

unfocused said:


> I can only speak for myself. I've sold off all but two of my EF lenses (100 macro and 8-15 fisheye). I sold several that I simply didn't use enough to justify keeping (70-300 mm L, for example). In other cases the RF lenses have advantages that I appreciate. 70-200 f2.8 RF for example is lighter and more compact. The 100-500 RF has an additional 100mm focal length and is lighter. I currently own five RF lenses. I used to own about a dozen EF lenses. Switching to RF was an incentive to pare things down to lenses I actually use. I didn't object to the adapters, but it's nice to have fewer lenses and not have to worry about switching out the adapters.



It certainly makes sense to sell a lens if you're not using it very often. 

But how many posts have we seen here from people who sold most or even all of their EF stuff as soon as the RF line was announced, then complained months or even years later that they still can't get an equivalent RF lens to replace an EF lens that they were actually using regularly when they sold it?


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