# Where is Canon headed?



## K (May 5, 2015)

Given the latest 1DX, 5D4 and 6D2 rumors ....


There are supposedly 4 new camera bodies we will see no later than Spring/Summer of 2016.

1DX2 at 25MP
5D4 at 28MP
5D4C at 18MP
6D2 at 28MP



The Complete Pro / Semi-Pro Canon Lineup could look like (existing and rumored cameras combined):

1DX2 at 25MP
5D4 at 28MP
5D4C at 18MP
5DS at 50MP
5DSR at 50MP
6D2 at 28MP
7D2 at 20MP


First, it seems like just too many cameras. Now, this might not be an issue for Canon since they would be using the same body and all else except for sensor and AF on the 5D line. But either way, the lineup is vastly expanded. Canon has gone from 4 cameras spanning from the 7D to the 1DX, to potentially 7 cameras.

Secondly, it is top heavy. What is at the low end? Just the 6D2 which will likely be too crippled for even an entry level FF camera. (the 7D2 is added due to build quality, and the way in which Canon markets this as useful for Pro use). It will stand alone in the $2K area where all the 5D series are $3.5K -

If the rumors hold up - this means Canon's strategy is to very much increase choices and expand in the high end arena. Does this mean they will continue keeping up with medium range cameras (70D)? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me. But I'm not a product and marketing specialist. Maybe Canon figures that with their professional lenses, which they have been aggressively updating and innovating in - is the future market place and they are making a move to be a more high end DSLR company. In other words, people buy Canon for their L lenses. People who can afford L lenses are going to buy high end bodies also.

Some say the expansion and updating of pro lenses is for the higher resolution cameras. I'm not so sure they would update that many lenses and that much glass in recent years just for the 5DS. Granted, updates are always needed. However, Canon updated lenses that weren't really out of date or lacking. They made several already great lenses even better. Quite a push from Canon for updates in lenses when they have zero pressure from Nikon in that regard. 

I guess I'm just wondering what from Canon, in FF, will compete feature-wise with Nikon in the $1,300 - $2,000 price bracket? So far, nothing.

And given what features are starting to be offered in the Rebel T6, one has to wonder if the 70D line has run its course. Is there a market for $1,200+ APS-C anymore? I really believe and feel that most people want FF for over $1,300 - given the prices of the 6D and D610. While high FPS, and AF and other specialty things are great (7D2), the all mighty FF sensor is by far the biggest feature of interest. It impacts people's photography the most.

Does 3 lines of APS-C survive in the future market? Rebel -> 70D -> 7D2

I think with the 7D2 falling to the prices it has, and with the features that it offers which is far and above the 70D line, there isn't likely going to be an 80D. Something has to give. Price and feature wise, things are getting squished in the crop world. Where does Canon price an 80D? Where do they put it feature wise? Can they seriously release an 80D at the usual price bracket when the 7D2 sells for what it does? Who would buy it?

The main attraction of the 7D2 is the FPS, AF and build quality. It certainly isn't the sensor or IQ. IQ that can be had in cameras less than 1/2 the price. The opposite could happen - the 7D2 is the last 7D we'll ever see, and the 80D will remain as the last king of high end APS-C maxing out in the $1,200-1,300 range with more MP. If they increase the features of the 80D to cover a little of what the 7D2 did, that's all they need. To get the rest of the 7D2's features, one would need to go to the 5D line. 

And remember, this is all in the context of a shrinking DSLR market and sales. Perhaps Canon thinks that the last bastion for DSLR profit is among the high end where all out quality and features is demanded and where it is paid for?


Canon seems to be avoiding the low-to-midrange FF market by only offering the 6D, while Nikon embraces it. Should be interesting to see how this all plays out.


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## AcutancePhotography (May 5, 2015)

I do believe that both Canon and Nikon offer too many different models. I think that can turn people off when considering buying a camera. Often I fear it devolves to price.

It is a delicate balancing act in trying to select what and how many features to put in what level of camera. 

Sometimes I think I would prefer if there were only five models of camera

Entry level
Enthusiast crop
Enthusiast FF
Pro Crop
Pro FF

It would make my head hurt less. I honestly get confused at all the Canon and Nikon models out there.


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## sanj (May 5, 2015)

If you think it makes your, a seasoned photographer's head hurt, imagine the plight of the normal people.
Too too many models. I agree.


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## neuroanatomist (May 5, 2015)

The overall dSLR market is shrinking, and the bulk of that market comprises entry level (consumer) sales. A few times recently in various settings (analyst calls, quarterly financial results), both Canon and Nikon have made statements to the effect that 'high end' sales have remained strong or increased. I think we are seeing an expansion of the higher end market in attempt to capture more of it.


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## Sporgon (May 5, 2015)

Disagree with the OP on the future 80D. The new Rebel uses a pentamirror and cheaper control interface. Until Rebels start using a good pentaprism ( which I think they will soon to keep up with EVF cameras for the same price) then there will be a slot for a xxD in between. Expect the 80D to be even smaller and lighter than the 70D, and use the 'second tier' control interface that's between Rebel and 7DII.


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## Maiaibing (May 5, 2015)

K said:


> 5D4 at 28MP


I expect the 5D4 will have ~32 MPIX - maybe even 36 MPIX. Canon will feel a need to differentiate 5D series more towards the 6D series to keep up a premium price for the 5D-series. And Canon have said their sales were hurt by having too few MPIX. 5Ds of course is an answer of sorts. But I think this realization will also make Canon careful about potentially hurting their sales with an incremental MPIX upgrade as it did with the 5DIII.



K said:


> First, it seems like just too many cameras.


Canon has said they want to bring more (specialized) models to the market. Using the same body and some core components while changing parts such as sensors etc. seem the smart way to do this.


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## JohanCruyff (May 5, 2015)

In my opinion, 80D wouldnot make sense if 770D had faster FPS, AFMA, better viewfinder etc.
It's not just a matter of price: I can couple the current model (70D) with a surprisingly light wideangle (10-18mm) and get good results (more than acceptable from an amateur point of view). 
An entry-level full frame with the (more or less) comparable 17-40mm weights more (due to the lens).


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## K (May 5, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> Disagree with the OP on the future 80D. The new Rebel uses a pentamirror and cheaper control interface. Until Rebels start using a good pentaprism ( which I think they will soon to keep up with EVF cameras for the same price) then there will be a slot for a xxD in between. Expect the 80D to be even smaller and lighter than the 70D, and use the 'second tier' control interface that's between Rebel and 7DII.



You make a good point about controls. The Rebel controls stink, as do Nikon's entry level DSLR. 60D and 70D is "entry level" for me personally based on controls alone. I just can't fiddle with menus or combinations of buttons to make changes. Others are the same way.

Ok, so if the 80D is coming - what price and what features? Why would I buy an 80D at $1,200 (assuming it releases at that price), when I can buy a gray market 7D2 for $1,200? Or, find a legit retailers on sale for $1,400? 70D released at a premium over the D7100 and if I recall correctly, was around $1,400. That's a bit much.


Two options here -

80D gets a very, very minor evolutionary update that everyone will be angry over since it will offer "no reason to upgrade over the 70D" ..or it gets a nice jump in features which will then bring it closer to the 7D2 and make it (or the 7D2) pointless.


I don't think most people will upgrade or spend more for 1 or 2 fps more shutter speed in the 7D2. For the AF, maybe. Those folks will view both the AF and extra 1-2 FPS as a benefit to action photography.

Speaking of AF, Canon is in need of an intermediate AF system if they are unwilling to use the 61/65 across the board. Something to bridge the gap between the 19pt system and the 61/65. I doubt Canon is just going to roll out with 61/65 points for all cameras going forward. This means the 19pt system keeps getting used. 19pt in the 80D would be a repeat and disappoint a lot of users. Then again, look at the 5D to 5D2....Canon isn't above recycling old stuff.

Nikon has that 39pt system that sits between their entry level and flagship level AF systems. It's not bad.

The offset to this of course, is the very coveted dual pixel AF.


I really believe that Canon feels dual slot is a "pro only feature" which is why they add it to their solid bodies like the 7D2 ...a 2nd slot out to be offered on the 80D even if it is a plastic body, since the D7200 has 2 slots and is price at or below what an 80D would be. Pricewise, Nikon does it. Sizewise, Nikon does it. But hey, I don't want to start another 2-card slot war.


So which consumer opinion will prevail?

1. 80D is 90% of the 7D2, why spend the extra couple hundred.
2. 7D2 is better than the 80D for only a little bit more, why buy the 80D


80D sensor is the big question. If the trend continues, an 80D might get the same MP count as whatever the 6D2 has. If 28MP, then there is more of a difference to choose between. That complicates the choice and overall value is less of a factor, instead which features are most important becomes the factor.

Without an intermediary AF system, and likely no boost in FPS - the most realistic upgrade appeal of the 80D would be a new sensor and that's it. Basically, a 28MP 70D. 

61/65 pt AF and 8fps doesn't sound realistic to me for an 80D. If an 80D happens, more Megapixels is about all Canon will be offering.


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## JohanCruyff (May 5, 2015)

K said:


> 61/65 pt AF and 8fps doesn't sound realistic to me for an 80D. If an 80D happens, more Megapixels is about all Canon will be offering.


Maybe 15 more focus points (all cross type in order to differentiate from Nikon) plus DPAF 2.0? 
When the 70D was announced, many prophets stated that the DPAF 1.0 was just the first step, and in five / ten years the developments of this technology were destined to deliver AF speed comparable or better than traditional DSLRs.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 5, 2015)

Canon has made no secret of their push towards smaller camera bodies. North America and Europe buyers prefer larger bodies, so we will see some, but the bulk of new camera buyers are now in Asia, and they buy smaller cameras. Canon will be competing there with ever more compact bodies. They are also pushing robotic assembly, which lets them churn out cameras at a lower assembly cost. Assembling a camera by hand is time consuming and expensive.


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## PureClassA (May 5, 2015)

I'll take issue with the notion that a 6DII would be "so crippled" as to be summarily waived off by any serious pro. I own a 6D. I own a 5D3. Pre-ordered 5DSR. The 6D is still a great camera and I have no qualms about purchasing one. In fact, if your work comprises mostly portraiture or even weddings, the 6D is an EXCELLENT value. It has sold boatloads and the MkII will also at a similar price point.

Even going to 22MP or 24MP, there will still be plenty enough differentiation between it and the 5D4 at 28MP. FPS, build, weather sealing, AF system, and probably other bells and whistles too.

Canon is specializing and whatever they concoct will likely work out. I do think at some point they will lose the 5DS the same way Nikon did and just keep the R for their High Res body. 

And though it's been distantly rumored, we haven't heard much of a 5DC, although it would be nice. That's a whole other rapidly growing indy film crowd market base, and wouldn't compete with other Canon still models.


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## unfocused (May 5, 2015)

As Neuro said, Canon is focused on where the money is and that is in high end DSLRs.

As far as "too many" models. Read any thread on this site. The same message is repeated over and over again by the whiners: "Canon isn't making the perfect camera for me." The more models, the more they can target features and price to different audiences. 

The Rebel line is differentiated primarily by price, because that drives most entry-level photographers. The XXD and XD lines are driven by features, which is what more advanced photographers look for (or at least convince themselves that's what they are looking for).

With modern manufacturing techniques, I doubt if the incremental costs for different models is that great (especially in the 5D Line, as long as they continue with the same basic body style).



K said:


> What is at the low end? Just the 6D2 which will likely be too crippled for even an entry level FF camera...I guess I'm just wondering what from Canon, in FF, will compete feature-wise with Nikon in the $1,300 - $2,000 price bracket?...Canon seems to be avoiding the low-to-midrange FF market by only offering the 6D, while Nikon embraces it.



Since the 6D is the best selling full frame camera on the market, I guess there are a lot of buyers who don't consider it "too crippled." It isn't competing with Nikon in the same price bracket, it's beating Nikon.



K said:


> Some say the expansion and updating of pro lenses is for the higher resolution cameras.



No. Canon updates their lenses so they can sell people the new version which is oftentimes just marginally better than the old. And, not all improvements are for high resolution cameras either. Improved IS important for anyone, as is corner sharpness, weather sealing, STM, etc.



K said:


> ...one has to wonder if the 70D line has run its course.



Just my opinion, but I believe the 70D is still the best video/stills combination available. The video focusing, flip screen and touch screen are all superb video features in my opinion. I much prefer using it for video over the 5DIII. 




K said:


> While high FPS, and AF and other specialty things are great (7D2), the all mighty FF sensor is by far the biggest feature of interest. It impacts people's photography the most...The main attraction of the 7D2 is the FPS, AF and build quality. It certainly isn't the sensor or IQ



For at least two generations now, APS-C sensors have produced results that are virtually indistinguishable from full frame at ISO 400 and below. The sensor doesn't do you any good if the picture is out of focus, if you've missed the essential moment in sports or wildlife, if you are distance limited or if the camera quits working in bad weather. And while the "main attraction" of the 7DII may be FFS, AF and build quality, the sensor is, by all accounts, pretty amazing.



K said:


> Where does Canon price an 80D? Where do they put it feature wise? Can they seriously release an 80D at the usual price bracket when the 7D2 sells for what it does? Who would buy it?



Add a headphone jack, make the touch-focus speed variable so it makes it smoother to pull focus, improve the autofocus so you can more easily lock in during filming, add some more STM lenses that have the dynamic IS of the 18-125 and I'm in. In short, continue to make it the best hybrid camera available and the market is there. 



K said:


> Perhaps Canon thinks that the last bastion for DSLR profit is among the high end where all out quality and features is demanded and where it is paid for?



I don't believe they "think" that. I believe they know that.


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## LookingThroughMyLens81 (May 5, 2015)

I don't know where Canon is headed, except that they are focusing more on Professional-grade products to sell to the Pro market. In the Consumer market, Canon has pretty much been coasting on the Digital Rebel line, which was once ground-breaking, but now old and stagnant. I'm thinking about selling all my Canon gear and buying into another camera brand that is more innovative, higher-performing, and user-friendly, like Pentax, Samsung, or Sony. Canon is just set in their way of thinking and the way they do things hasn't paid off for them lately.


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## dak723 (May 6, 2015)

LookingThroughMyLens81 said:


> I'm thinking about selling all my Canon gear and buying into another camera brand that is more innovative, higher-performing, and user-friendly, like Pentax, Samsung, or Sony.



Before you sell off the Canon gear, you might want to rent or buy a camera from one of those companies you mention. That innovative, higher performing company that you read all about on forums such as this one (Sony, for example) might not be all that it is claimed to be. Old, dull, un-innovative Canon might just take the better pics. Having recently bought the Sony A7 II to test out there fantastic Exmor sensor, I thought it would put my Canon 6D to shame. Didn't happen. The Sony was returned. The Canon (in my opinion, of course) had the higher IQ. And the Sony kit lens (I tried two examples) was very poor. Sharp only in the center and very soft off center. My Canon 18-55mm STM (used with my SL1) is a noticeably far better lens. Innovative doesn't necessarily mean better.


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## privatebydesign (May 6, 2015)

LookingThroughMyLens81 said:


> I don't know where Canon is headed, except that they are focusing more on Professional-grade products to sell to the Pro market. In the Consumer market, Canon has pretty much been coasting on the Digital Rebel line, which was once ground-breaking, but now old and stagnant. I'm thinking about selling all my Canon gear and buying into another camera brand that is more innovative, higher-performing, and user-friendly, like Pentax, Samsung, or Sony. Canon is just set in their way of thinking and the way they do things hasn't paid off for them lately.



Great, don't talk about it just do it, if another brand will work better for you why should anybody, including Canon, care? Canon are not in the market to make a camera for you, they are in the market to make money for their shareholders, and as far as DSLR manufacturers go they do a pretty good job of it.

Personally I have no problem with Canon focusing on the pro market with $2-3,000 lenses and $3-7,000 bodies, but I well understand if you and many others do. Having said that take a second to look at it from the perspective of Canon, for the second time in a week in just 24 hours Best Digital have sold nearly 200 1DX's at $3,999, that is over $752,000 per sale, how many Rebels do they have to make and sell to get that, 2,000 or more! Compared to the 438 7D MkII's that brought in just $525,000.

And I'd wager that Canon Japan are not getting less ¥ back for those 'discounted' 1DX's than they would if they came via the USA importer and dealer with their inevitable markups, all due to the vagaries of currency fluctuations the purposefully devalued ¥ and the comparatively strong US$.


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## AcutancePhotography (May 6, 2015)

LookingThroughMyLens81 said:


> I'm thinking about selling all my Canon gear and buying into another camera brand that is more innovative, higher-performing, and user-friendly, like Pentax, Samsung, or Sony.



Give a close look at Pentax. The K3 series looks like a sweet system.


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## jcarapet (May 6, 2015)

For the 70d, it is in real danger of going the dinosaur as Grey market prices are already hitting $1200 for the 7D2. I always wanted a 70d, but at that price I can wait a few months extra on a 7D2. 

I don't think xxd line is completely dead. Mostly because they want to have a market differentiation between t6 for Dual Pixel Autofocus. While they can fit everything into one package for a cheap price, they won't.


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## Vivid Color (May 6, 2015)

If you think Canon is headed to having too many DSLR versions in its lineup, have you looked at the PowerShot lineup? OMG, I can't make any sense out of that. Given falling sales in that segment, that is where I would start to pare down. Significantly and quickly.


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## jeffa4444 (May 7, 2015)

Canon pay for very expensive research by companies like GsK they make informed decisions on data and technology as any successful company would. 
The car industry demonstrated the value of niche models based around a common platform with shared parts etc thats exactly what Canon have done with the 5Ds, 5Ds R and the 5D MKIII arcitecture, and with the T6 / T6i. I feel in FF they are missing an opportunity in the current line-up between the 6D and the 5D MKIII the price difference is wide. 
Flexable manufacturing methods mean shared production lines can make more than one model so Canon are now learning to do exactly that its not new to them the AE-1, AT-1, AV-1, A-1 & AE-1 Program shared many parts.


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## Tugela (May 8, 2015)

"Where is Canon headed?"

Simple......


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## moreorless (May 8, 2015)

sanj said:


> If you think it makes your, a seasoned photographer's head hurt, imagine the plight of the normal people.
> Too too many models. I agree.



If you look at the "normal" market though things don't look like they will change much or indeed have changed much in the last couple of years. The only real change has been offering a Rebel with some extra controls and a second cheaper EF-S UWA and a pancake prime.

Its the "Seasoned" or pro market that's being targeted with more specific products, likely because Canon believe there is a better return here as photographers are more likely to have specific needs and also more likely to want extra performance.


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## JohanCruyff (May 9, 2015)

Sometime I use to listen to an English-speaking Photography podcast to improve both my English and my technique.

In an episode, they mentioned a poll about "which camera brand will you buy next?".
The results are interesting:
Nikon & Canon: 25-24%
Sony: 16%
Fuji: 15%
Olympus: 12%
Others: ...

http://photofocus.com/2015/02/07/question-of-the-week-which-brand-camera-will-you-buy-next/

Understanding the results is a bit more complicated.
Are Canon and Nikon ******* as it seems?
I think that the audience of Photofocus is more advanced than most of the "former-point-and-shooters".

The market share related to the first time DSLR/Mirrorless isn't - in my opinion - reflected by the pool, so we can expect that Canon's and Nikon's market share will not tend to reduce in the short - medium term.

But one of the interest thing that I understand is that many *expert* Canon and Nikon shooters will experiment a Fuji body. 
Many of them won't switch completely, they'll probably adopt a "two sistems" approach...


What do you fellow guys of Canonrumors think of this poll?


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## dak723 (May 9, 2015)

JohanCruyff said:


> What do you fellow guys of Canonrumors think of this poll?



I don't care at all. Camera buying is not a sport where I root for a favorite team. If more people buy Sonys or Nikons, why should that matter one bit in my life? What difference does it make if Nikon or Canon or Sony is selling the most cameras? If Canon were in "10th place" would it matter?

As long as the camera I have works well, then I am satisfied. As long as Canon doesn't go out of business when I am ready for my next camera (should I choose a Canon in the future because I have Canon lenses) then I don't care if they are 1st or 10th.


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## ritholtz (May 9, 2015)

It is only confusing for experience users. For simple users, it is just a rebel.


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## rocksubculture (May 9, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Having said that take a second to look at it from the perspective of Canon, for the second time in a week in just 24 hours Best Digital have sold nearly 200 1DX's at $3,999, that is over $752,000 per sale, how many Rebels do they have to make and sell to get that, 2,000 or more! Compared to the 438 7D MkII's that brought in just $525,000.



eBay doesn't make it easy to see this, but they've actually sold around 200 1DX's in about one year, not 24 hours. If you look at the listing revisions, it's been an active listing since May 2014 - they just move the price up and down:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=151303034199

Jason


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## 9VIII (May 10, 2015)

ritholtz said:


> It is only confusing for experience users. For simple users, it is just a rebel.



Except that for an experienced user it's not confusing, unless you're the type of person who buys $3,000 cameras on impulse and without reading the label, but that person will just have one of each anyway.
(I can just imagine a billionare buying all of Canon's new cameras next year and walking away praising the 6D2 as "the best" because it's the lightest and the only one with wi-fi.)


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## RodS57 (May 11, 2015)

JohanCruyff said:


> Sometime I use to listen to an English-speaking Photography podcast to improve both my English and my technique.
> 
> In an episode, they mentioned a poll about "which camera brand will you buy next?".
> The results are interesting:
> ...



The poll is like most other information found on the Internet: don't base your decisions on it.

Where is Canon headed? I can only use my limited personal experience and that of people I know who have bought into Canon gear. The stats are

Person A with T2i - camera functions as expected
Me with T3i - camera functions as expected
Person B with T4i - camera required warranty repairs for defects
Me with 7D2 - camera has focus issues
Person A with 70D - camera has focus issues

This is not a troll post but would I spend 4 grand on a new canon body? NO
As far as I can tell Canon's QA does not live up to the claims in the hardware advertisements. It seems the newer the hardware the more likely you are to have problems.
This is just my opinion. You may or may not have a different opinion.

Rod


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## Hillsilly (May 11, 2015)

unfocused said:


> As far as "too many" models. Read any thread on this site. The same message is repeated over and over again by the whiners: "Canon isn't making the perfect camera for me."


Not only are there a lot of topics saying that, but I wonder if the reducing number of topics on this site are a symptom of that too. When you look at the forum stats, you see: -

Total new topics for 2012 8719 
Total new topics for 2013 6244
Total new topics for 2014 4921 
Total new topics for 2015 YTD 1510 (approx 4240 when extrapolated out to end of year)

To me, that suggests a noticeable number of people might have already moved on to other cameras that are closer to what they want. It also suggests a reduced level of excitement in Canon products. (Of course, it could also just mean that Neuro and co have educated us all and there's nothing new to learn.)


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## RGF (May 11, 2015)

I really don't think that the following is too many pro cameras

1DX2 at 25MP - ultimate Sports/wildlife action
5D4 at 28MP - general purpose camera
5D4C at 18MP - movie only? should this be on the list
5DS/SR at 50MP - for those who need BIG images in good light
6D2 at 28MP - prosumer general purpose camera
7D2 at 20MP - prosumer wildlife action 

Only thing missing is ultra high MP in 1D body. 5Ds/sR serve this purpose but not in the 1D series body.

Not sure if the 6D2 should be on the list, just as 80D is removed, perhaps the 6D2 should be omitted.


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## LOALTD (May 12, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> LookingThroughMyLens81 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know where Canon is headed, except that they are focusing more on Professional-grade products to sell to the Pro market. In the Consumer market, Canon has pretty much been coasting on the Digital Rebel line, which was once ground-breaking, but now old and stagnant. I'm thinking about selling all my Canon gear and buying into another camera brand that is more innovative, higher-performing, and user-friendly, like Pentax, Samsung, or Sony. Canon is just set in their way of thinking and the way they do things hasn't paid off for them lately.
> ...


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## privatebydesign (May 16, 2015)

See the dividend history ratings?

In a shrinking market that has recently ballooned and is now deflating from a tech advancement (digital cameras) maintaining an 'Excellent' dividend record is difficult, do that in one of the strongest recessions in world history while selling non essential luxury consumer goods and it looks like a remarkable performance to me, besides, I did say _"as far as DSLR manufacturers go"_, I wasn't talking out of control and corrupt banks.


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## CanoKnight (May 17, 2015)

Give me 4k and dual pixel focus and I don't care for anything else.


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## sanj (May 17, 2015)

Tugela said:


> "Where is Canon headed?"
> 
> Simple......



Is that the short cut to the bank? ;D


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## Busted Knuckles (May 17, 2015)

P/E Ration of 18.x vs. 13.x the market seems to prefer the future of Canon vs. Nikon by quite a margin. Total market cap of 39.x Billion - that is w/ a "B"

Canon is going just exactly wherever they want to go.


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## lux (May 17, 2015)

I was thinking about the electronics I own now vs when I was younger...
I used to own cutting edge stuff. It was powerful and pretty inexpensive and pre-job and kids I would spend hours getting the most out of it. It took a fair amount of work and tweeking but it was great. Now I have very good equIpment but not cutting edge. I pay a premium for it to just work. I want it to do what I need consistently and work well with all my other electronics. I don't have time for equipment that does one thing one day and something completely differently the next. Of course I'm talking about computers but I think cameras are pretty similar. I could buy a combination of Sony and canon etc to get all the newest tech. Presumably if I had time I could make it do amazing things. However, I need my camera gear to "just work." I want consistency and resilience so I can get the shot I want. Rarely do I have hours to get the perfect shot. 

So I shoot canon. Great equipment though maybe not the absolute cutting edge but it always works. 

I know that I'm going to get responses about how cutting edge canon is...I think they are innovative but not the cutting edge. They wait until the tech works consistently before selling it. Which I appreciate. 

Oh could I please have another couple stops of low noise at high ISO. 12800 would be great. I keep finding myself at poorly lit night soccer games. I've got the 300 2.8 but it's pretty dark. 

So maybe that is where canon is going. It has worked well for Apple over the last decade.


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## rowlandw (May 17, 2015)

As my cameras' (6D and 7D) capabilities exceed my needs and abilities I doubt I'll buy new bodies until these wear out. However, I do spend on good glass which of course holds its value better.

I would, however, buy a modular body that could receive future upgraded elements.


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## unfocused (May 18, 2015)

lux said:


> ...I need my camera gear to "just work." I want consistency and resilience so I can get the shot I want. Rarely do I have hours to get the perfect shot...
> So I shoot canon.



I am in a very similar position. I bought a 5D about a year and a half ago. At the time I was only shooting for myself and for the occasional friend, family member, etc., that needed portraits and couldn't afford to hire someone. (A lot of work for starving young actors and actresses in need of headshots).

Anyway, I loved the 5DIII, but candidly there wasn't much I did with it that I couldn't have done with my 7D.

Then, six months ago, I retired from one job (managing a communications staff, but not doing much photography myself) and began a new job working for a very small public relations firm. I quickly became the sole photographer. The assignments are nothing very exciting -- lots of meetings, often with elected officials and our clients. Invariably, they are in dark rooms. I must blend in, so no flash and always silent shooting. When you are shooting for someone else, the conditions don't matter and you can't control them. But, if your client has been given a meeting with the Governor or a Congressman, you had better bring back the picture anyway. 

Thank God I have the 5DIII. I am living at 6400 or even higher. And...it just works. Maybe some people don't consider that innovation. But, whatever you call it...I hope they just keep doing the same.


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## martti (May 20, 2015)

Canon is heading and well on the way to 2030 and further.
No pampered pixel peeper can stop them...it is a major company wchich is run like a business. Lots of resources there in finances and research. Just stay put.


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## degos (May 21, 2015)

RGF said:


> 1DX2 at 25MP - ultimate Sports/wildlife action
> ...



25MP won't be enough to reclaim that title for the 1DX2.

The current model only puts as many pixels on an APS-H-sized target as a 1D3. Yes, they are lower-noise pixels but when you're focal-length-limited with a 600mm and 2x extender, it's still not enough resolution compared to the old 1D4 or the 7D2.

A 25 MP 1DX2 still won't match pixels-on-duck delivered by those two cameras. Superb autofocus isn't much help if you have to crop like mad afterwards to extract something from the middle of the frame. 

And it won't give enough resolution for former users of 1Ds3 who will be looking at the 5DS.

Frankly I don't know where the 1D series is headed, it just seems to be disappearing up its own lens-mount. My 1D4 replacement is likely to be from the 7D series.


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## LOALTD (May 21, 2015)

martti said:


> Canon is heading and well on the way to 2030 and further.
> No pampered pixel peeper can stop them...it is a major company wchich is run like a business. Lots of resources there in finances and research. Just stay put.




Sony vs Canon over the past 12 months...looks like the times they are a'changin'.


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## pedro (May 21, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > 5D4 at 28MP
> ...


Yes I remember that, then there is room for a 5DIVC 18 MP looking forward to its specs. Would this cam be good for astro single frames as well? More or less a much better equipped counter part to the Sony A7IIs?


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## martti (May 22, 2015)

LOALTD said:


> martti said:
> 
> 
> > Canon is heading and well on the way to 2030 and further.
> ...



Sony is 'restructuring' with a heavy hand. It means laying off people and cutting non-profitable branches. Xperia needs to lose weight, les variation, less models and better quality. Mine is in reparation for the third time in it 11-month career in my service....Mos certainly Sony is doing good now with the camera sensor and selfie camera business selling high-margin products in great volumes. Canon is not competing in that segment.

Canon is taking the slump in DSLR business hard but the office materials are providing a solid inflow of money.
Camera business is about 30% of Canon's sales volumes. 
Nikon is takin a harder hit because camera business corresponds to 60% of their sales volume. Their background business, robotics components for micro technology is not doing well, either.

From the big three, Nikon is deepest in trouble. You do remember the problems they have had launching their 'winner' products. The reflections in the D750 and the oil in the shutter of the D6000. Call backs are costly in more ways than one. 

Sure, times, they are a'changing and a hard rain is gonna fall. We are *******.


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