# 6D+7Dii Vs 5D mkiii



## Sabaki (Aug 7, 2014)

My 500D, noble beast that she is, needs to be retired.

Her AF isn't sufficient when trying to catch quicker birds in flight and when it comes to low light photography, anything over ISO 800 affects image quality.

So I decided, that I wanted two cameras to replace her and set my sights on the 6D for the full frame goodness and 7Dii (yes, I know it's not out yet ) for frames per second, AF system and so on.

But a friend is now messing with my mind. His advise? Get the 5Diii instead.

His contention is that the 5Diii will give me more bells and whistles than the 6D offers and provides sufficient resolution that would allow me to crop an image to equal the 1.6 "zoom" of a crop body.

But I'm not so sure that cropping an image shot at 400mm (FF) would give me the "fill" of a 640mm (APS-C) without negatively affecting image quality. 

What would you guys do? If the 7Dii isn't announced this year, I may go for the 70D instead.

I'm really in need of some convincing that the full frame can replace a crop body.

Thanks in advance


----------



## pablo (Aug 7, 2014)

Okay, if you were going to go full frame you would also need to budget for a replacement for your 10-22, so something like a 16-35 f2.8 or f4, or a 17-40 f4... in order to retain the same coverage. A 1.4 tc would take up the slack elsewhere if you weren't too keen to crop.

Nobody can give you any advice about the 7D2 as it isn't here yet.

I personally find having multiply bodies handy, but then I do 2 & 3 camera video shoots..

Your reasons seem to be AF performance and low light performance... the 5D3 is the most resounding tick and I anticipate would be cheaper than a 6D + 7D2, although nobody can be certain. The 5D3 is also a known quantity. Even if the 7D2 came out tomorrow, I would wait at least 3 months before buying. You'll pay less and get the early bugs ironed out.

My 7D never ran that well until fw2 which was about 2 years into my ownership of it (I actually bought a T2i because I couldn't rely on the 7D with Sandisk Extreme UDMA cards for video, a problem canon denied then quietly fixed)


----------



## Random Orbits (Aug 7, 2014)

There have been several threads in the forum showing that the difference in IQ between a reach limited 5DIII is not that different from the 7D. At the lowest ISOs, the 7D has the advantage, and the 5DIII has the advantage at high ISOs. The wildcard is that we don't know how much better IQ will be in the 7DII.

Perhaps a different but just as important question, is how much total reach do you want/need? 400mm? 600mm? The TDP comparison below shows that the Tamron on a FF at 500mm will beat a 100-400 on a crop at 400mm. At 600mm, the 100-400 on a crop will pull ahead.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=929&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=0&LensComp=113&CameraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=7&APIComp=2

How often will you use 600mm and crop at that focal length? If it's a lot, then it might be worth getting the 6D/7DII combo. But if not, then the 5DIII should be just fine. There is some value in having a single set of gear rather than having to swap lenses/bodies.


----------



## Tugela (Aug 7, 2014)

The bigger question will be what IQ will be like in the 5D mark 4 when it is released in February next year. If you are going to make a big investment (5D3s are not cheap and are going to be obsolete in the near future), it makes more sense to get a cheap Rebel to tide you over for a few months, and then get the latest prosumer flagship when it comes out.


----------



## dgatwood (Aug 7, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> His contention is that the 5Diii will give me more bells and whistles than the 6D offers and provides sufficient resolution that would allow me to crop an image to equal the 1.6 "zoom" of a crop body.



Remember that the megapixel count varies approximately with the square of the magnification, because each dimension is divided by 1.6. A Canon APS-C sensor is about 22.2mm x 14.8mm, or about 328.58 square mm. A Canon APS sensor is about 36mm x 24mm, or about 864 square mm, which is a factor of about 2.63.

The 22.3 MP resolution translates into about 8.5 megapixels, which is way short of your existing crop body's 15 MP resolution. If you were upgrading from a Rebel XT or older, maybe, but....


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 7, 2014)

If you take everything else out of the equation, Purchase Price, IQ, FL etc then you are left with personal choice and habits. Do you like owning photo equipment?

Using a crop sensor for reach is much easier than manually cropping individual images. Having two bodies has its advantages and it also has some disadvantages. You have a backup body and more choices with focal lengths, etc. It's also fun to have a brand new camera, it's twice as fun to have two! (LOL) ;D But when you are walking out the door, sometimes it's a headache comparing the two bodies, lenses, etc to decide which camera is best to take with which lenses if you just want to take a single camera. It's a mental exercise keeping the two bodies straight in your head with regard to best uses, etc. But if you have a FF body to go with the crop body, you can concentrate on higher quality EF lenses and avoid EF-S lenses. Usually, the only reason to buy EF-S lenses (for me anyway) is to get more width on a crop sensor and having a FF body will eliminate that need. If the batteries are the same, you won't have to double up on that. You may have to buy more memory cards though.

IMHO, both camera scenarios are going to work great. Either the 6D + 7D2 or the single 5D3 will be great. If you can afford it, rent the 6D and the 5D3 now and compare them. That will help you decide about the FF body part of the equation. If the 5D3 isn't to your liking for BIF shots, etc then it's pretty clear that the new 7D2 is the body for you along with the 6D for FF use. I have both the 5D3 and 6D and they both are excellent. Don't sell the 6D short based on what some people say. Try it and decide for yourself.


----------



## Clik (Aug 7, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> If you take everything else out of the equation, Purchase Price, IQ, FL etc then you are left with personal choice and habits. Do you like owning photo equipment?
> -----
> I have both the 5D3 and 6D and they both are excellent. Don't sell the 6D short based on what some people say. Try it and decide for yourself.



with your expertise please throw in some light to clear a similar confusion. I have a 6D and I like the camera, but these days my keeper rate is far below 50%. My kid is now 15 months and I am not able to focus quickly to capture her actions or to keep up with the pace. Photos are perfect when I can nail the focus with center point but I am finding it difficult to always work with the center point. 
I wanted to upgrade to 5D3 but have no idea on how much improvement would it be for my scenario (other than kid it would be mostly Portraits n Nature). With Canon refurbished in stock for 5D3, I think I can get the body for $2500 (10% Loyalty) . But reading this forum posts I am confused if I should wait for 5D4 next yr beginning or 7D2 next month (Budget will be another constraint)... thanks for your time


----------



## Frodo (Aug 7, 2014)

An important question is: do you want 2 bodies or 1?
I went to Antarctica a couple of years ago. I went for a 5DII and 7D for less than the price of a 5DIII. I needed to have two bodies as I could not risk one failing. I also needed the extra reach that the 7D provided on my 400 f5.6. By the way that's a good BIF combination, but you have to maintain high shutter speeds for sharpness. In my view, the 400/7D is sharper than 400/cropped 5DII.
Now I'm back home, I hardly use the 7D other than for watersports photography and when I do events when two cameras are handy. There are times when I miss the better focusing of the 7D (especially with lateral AF points when shooting portraits wide open), but the quality of the 7D files are not a touch near those from the 5DII. So now I'd like the 5DIII as a single camera!
But on balance, I prefer the two camera set up. Roll on the next Antarctica trip!


----------



## mackguyver (Aug 7, 2014)

I would recommend going with the 5D Mark IV.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 7, 2014)

Clik said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > If you take everything else out of the equation, Purchase Price, IQ, FL etc then you are left with personal choice and habits. Do you like owning photo equipment?
> ...



Hi *Clik*,

I think there are many variables to consider with your issue. Which lens, how much light, technique, etc. The simple answer to your question would be to rent or borrow another 6D and/or a 5D3 and see if your situation changes for the better using the same lens, etc. If you fail to detect a significant improvement, something else might be going on. I think it's critical to determine where your problem truly lies by ruling out assumptions before you start shopping to spend a lot of money and possibly be disappointed.

In general, my 6D doesn't focus quite as fast as my 5D3 but it's not a huge difference and it doesn't hamper normal use for me. (I use center point focus on all my cameras.) Have you considered using AI Servo to see if it improves your AF performance and keeper rate? I'll help however I can but I just want to assure you that while I find the 5D3 is a better AF performer for moving subjects, sports, etc, I don't think the 6D is total dog either. Chasing kids is tough with any camera!  There's more to AF performance than just the camera. I suspect this could be an lens issue or something else. The 6D is actually a BETTER performer in low light situations and any camera will struggle to focus depending on the available light. Indoors can sometimes seem to be pretty well lit but the camera doesn't always agree. Are you having trouble with your keeper rate indoors?


----------



## Clik (Aug 7, 2014)

Thanks for your advice. I will try to rent a 5D3 to see the difference before I decide to buy it. I was excited to see the refurbished in stock after a long time and get the price down to $2500.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 7, 2014)

Clik said:


> Thanks for your advice. I will try to rent a 5D3 to see the difference before I decide to buy it. I was excited to see the refurbished in stock after a long time and get the price down to $2500.



If you get a chance, share more of the story. Which lens? Indoor or outdoor shooting? AF mode? Are you moving with the child or are you stationary? Panning and chasing a small child is a challenge for any camera to AF. Anytime the camera moves while the subject is moving it makes the challenge much greater than following a moving subject with a still camera. I'm just trying to imagine the situation with a small child.


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 7, 2014)

I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.


----------



## monkey44 (Aug 7, 2014)

QUOTE ... "5D3s are not cheap and are going to be obsolete in the near future"

Obsolete? Why so? That is one fine camera, and just because a new version comes on the market, doesn't obsolete the prior version. I shot with a 30D until I bought a 5DM3 six months ago ... so, count between the 30D up to the 70D and the other opportunities to buy cameras that 'should have made 30D obsolete' didn't ... 

TO - OP, the 6D is a great camera, a 6D and a 7D (7D11) would make a fine package, but if I were thinking only one camera, no question 5DM3 ... if you can afford it. It will be a fine shooter long after other cameras have advanced some technology -- but as photographers, we need to understand cameras will evolve, and once we buy a model that works, use it until it will not do the job for you anymore -- forget about GAS ... The technology is not always as big a deal to anyone except the 'tech geeks' (no offense) -- and what really matters is the image or print that you want to produce -- if you do it successfully with a 30D or a 5DM3, or the 1D family, no one can tell where it came from once that print is sitting there and waiting to gain the "admiring eyes" -- what comes before and after that is just numbers...

I shoot with a 5DM3 and a 7D, but find the 5DM3 much more versatile and it gets most of my workout now, the 7D coming into play for specific shots - when reach or speed helps ...


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 7, 2014)

I have the 5D-III and 6D and they are a good complement to each other, but here are some of the differences between these cameras that spring to mind:

Why someone might consider the 6D:
Slighty better image quality at the pixel level (DR, Color sensitivity, Tonal range)
Lower noise at high ISO 
Centre focus point works better in much-lower-light conditions
A better silent shutter
Interchangeable focus screens (Eg-A II, Eg-D, Eg-S)
Wifi (remote stills shooting via android or IOS device)
Wifi (wireless file transfer/backup)
GPS tagging (I've never used it...)
Ergonomics allow for one handed shooting/image-review
Smaller/lighter
Less expensive

Why someone might consider the 5D-III:
Much more advanced AF sensor with peripheral cross-type AF pts
Far superior tracking with expanded modes (AF-assist pts)
Slightly faster burst rate (6fps)
Compact Flash (Faster RAW writing)
Dual card slots (e.g. RAW to CF, sJpeg to SD)
Slighter higher resolution
Better build quality (EG eyecup, better LCD, stronger Chassis)
Dual function top-plate buttons (e.g. Metering+WB, AF+DRIVE, ISO+FEC)
Joystick (I don't like it but other love it.)
Rate button and Creative function button (compare reviewed images side by side)
Better Video (less moire/aliasing)
Audio monitoring during video (Headphone Jack)

While it's not ideal, if you absolutely have to get one camera now, the 5D-III would probably serve you better.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 7, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.



Dylan - with all due respect, I think all the bodies we are comparing would qualify as 'advanced bodies', would you not agree? With the bodies mentioned, I don't see a lot of missing capabilities. You can't make a crop into a FF or vice versa. I think that's the whole point of the discussion. Go with a single FF sensor camera with one set of features or two different size sensor cameras with complimentary features for their respective designs.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 7, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> 'I have the 5D-III and 6D and they are a good complement to each other, but here are some of the differences between these cameras that spring to mind:'



Great comparison summary *StudentOfLight*!

The lists you provide show a good contrast of why each camera compliments the other and why I still haven't sold my 6D or my 5D3 and I'm often glad I have them both. When trying to pick one over the other, it's important to know its' primary purpose/use. I agree that if money isn't an issue, the 5D3 would be the best single camera but if money is tight and sports isn't a primary use, the 6D would serve most photographers very well, even better in fact. And the 6D is a bit simpler to use than the 5D3.


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.
> ...


Yes, they both have their own unique.

6D(high ISO, slow) + 7D(better AF system, good speed) = 5D III

The point I'm trying to say is 5D III is more capable body and can be used in many situations, where 6D + 7D might be limit to it or harder to get the shots.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 8, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



I understand. We're in the same ball park here but since he's considering the 7D2 - I certainly hope that it will outperform the 5D3 in several key areas where it is designed and marketed to. Don't get the wrong idea, I use my 5D3 for sports and it's great... but not as great for that purpose as the 7D2 _better_ be for what it will probably cost and the amount of time that has passed since the 5D3 and 1DX were released.


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > RustyTheGeek said:
> ...



Understand your points RustyTheGeek  

Kinda difficult for us to discuss and compare to something that is not exist - at least not yet.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 8, 2014)

Yeah, I know what you mean Dylan. Fingers crossed that Canon blows us away. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Chisox2335 (Aug 8, 2014)

I have a 70d and a 6d. I use the almost every day when I go to my local pond. I use a 70-200f2.8 on the 6d which is great for deer and a 100-400 on the 70d which is great for birds. They compliment each other very well. Give me a lot more versatility than if I only had one body. Gives me an extra 30mm on the short end and 240mm on the long end.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Aug 8, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> My 500D, noble beast that she is, needs to be retired.
> 
> Her AF isn't sufficient when trying to catch quicker birds in flight and when it comes to low light photography, anything over ISO 800 affects image quality.
> 
> ...



There really isn't a lot to convince, especially since your original idea was to get two bodies before you got 'influenced', but I'd say consider the scenario when you need fast and accurate AF in less than ideal light. Then both your 6D and 7DII will fall short. 

As some of the members asked, have you considered the logistics of two different format bodies? When will you carry one camera and when will you carry both? Which will you carry when you take only the one? Which lenses go with each camera? If you have a plan on how to carry both cameras then that's a point in favor of the two-camera choice.

Will your 5DIII crops be sufficient to replace a crop sensor camera? It depends- if you enlarge quite a bit, maybe not. If you don't make huge enlargements, then there seems to be very little difference in IQ- Privatebydesign and Neuroanatomist have several posts and examples on the forum. In my case, crops from the 5DIII look better than the 7D images, which look less sharp and sort of smudged in comparison and blown up (by themselves they are fine up to ISO 640).

I was in your position a year ago, and considered whether I should add a 6D or 5DII to my 7D or I should sell the 7D and get the 5DIII. I went for the latter, and was very happy with my decision. My driving factor was that I should have one camera that can do it all, almost. With the 7DII possibly having much more improved specs, it might be a good idea to wait rather than jumping the gun with a 5DIII. Sometimes the added information that comes with time resolves many questions automatically. Who knows, there might even be a 6DII...


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 8, 2014)

As I've already said, cost may determine some of this. There are several price scenarios. The dual camera combo will be the most expensive and a new 7D2 will likely cost close to what the 5D3 costs. The 7D2 will be brand new at the apex of its price curve while the 5D3 has settled into a lower norm. Once the 7D2 arrives, the 5D3 might even be a bit cheaper, esp used.

I would definitely wait until the 7D2 arrives before spending $1000's of dollars. Personally, I'm slightly tempted to get either a 70D or 7D2 for faster fps and low light performance for swimming pictures but it's not urgent. It would just be cool. Maybe the November sales will convince me to buy something. Maybe not.

Keep us posted on your decision!!


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> As I've already said, cost may determine some of this. There are several price scenarios. The dual camera combo will be the most expensive and a new 7D2 will likely cost close to what the 5D3 costs. The 7D2 will be brand new at the apex of its price curve while the 5D3 has settled into a lower norm. Once the 7D2 arrives, the 5D3 might even be a bit cheaper, esp used.
> 
> I would definitely wait until the 7D2 arrives before spending $1000's of dollars. Personally, I'm slightly tempted to get either a 70D or 7D2 for faster fps and low light performance for swimming pictures  but it's not urgent. It would just be cool. Maybe the November sales will convince me to buy something. Maybe not.
> 
> Keep us posted on your decision!!



My 5yrs old does indoor swimming. My shutter speed is usually around 1/800 to 1000. I just don't see how 70d or 7D II can handle that, even 5D III. Next best thing is 1dx shooting at f2.8. 

Photo below was taken with 1dx @ at 1/2000 f5.6, ISO25000. Right before the sun goes down.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Aug 8, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> My 5yrs old does indoor swimming. My shutter speed is usually around 1/800 to 1000. I just don't see how 70d or 7D II can handle that, even 5D III. Next best thing is 1dx shooting at f2.8.
> 
> Photo below was taken with 1dx @ at 1/2000 f5.6, ISO25000. Right before the sun goes down.



I am curious:
1. Why can't the 5DIII take pictures of an indoor swimmer? 
2. Is there any reason you're shooting at 1/800? I have seen images of professional swimmers at 1/250 with good freezing of motion and slight motion of limbs. I suppose even slower speeds can be used for kids.
2. Could you have taken the egret image at f/2.8, giving you two stops more light? At this distance, the DoF with a 400/2.8 would have been sufficient. Or were you limited by maximum aperture (using 2x TC, perhaps)?
Thanks!


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 8, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > My 5yrs old does indoor swimming. My shutter speed is usually around 1/800 to 1000. I just don't see how 70d or 7D II can handle that, even 5D III. Next best thing is 1dx shooting at f2.8.
> ...



I currently do shoot my 5D3 in various configurations with various lenses at various speeds and apertures. I shoot at different natatoriums. Some have better light than others. I usually shoot at around 1/200 - 1/320 to get a bit of motion. I typically shoot Tv and lock in ISO 3200 or 2000 depending on light and the camera goes from 2.8 to 6.3 depending on the lens, the light and the zoom range. I'm usually at the side of the pool and I typically use a 70-200 f/2.8 with a 1.4 TC or a 70-300L, sometimes also with a 1.4 TC (at the brighter locations where I can get away with it). The mercury vapor lights cycle at 60Hz and the light output and color change constantly making the pictures dark and light along with yellow and green. Lots of post work!!

If the 70D or the upcoming 7D2 allowed me more reach and better sensor tech, I might be able to ditch the TC and still be able to get up close without sacrificing IQ. I already have a 60D and of course it's not as good as the 5D3 IQ.

I don't plan to buy an expensive tele-prime.


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > My 5yrs old does indoor swimming. My shutter speed is usually around 1/800 to 1000. I just don't see how 70d or 7D II can handle that, even 5D III. Next best thing is 1dx shooting at f2.8.
> ...



1. Why can't the 5DIII take pictures of an indoor swimmer? ==> some happy at 6400ISO, others not. Even though my 5D III is set at 5000IS, but most shots I took were around 3200.

2. Is there any reason you're shooting at 1/800? I have seen images of professional swimmers at 1/250 with good freezing of motion and slight motion of limbs. I suppose even slower speeds can be used for kids. ==> I believe most sport shooters would shoot min 1/500. If you want to see swimmer eyebrown through the goggles and detail of pool water flashes around the swimmer then try 1/500 or 1/800. I wouldn't reduce that shutter on kids. 

3. Yes, the bird photo was taken with 400mm f2.8 IS II + 1.4x TC. I was there about 1hr before the sun set. With sun still high, I stepped down to f5.6 to gain sharpness. This photo clearly showed how careful I was with auto ISO ;D

Since I set my max ISO at 25000 on 1dx and was so busy tracking birds, I completely forgot about that I was shooting at f5.6 at sun set. Yes, the ISO could be much lower. Still, I'm pleased how the photo turned out. Many bird in flight shooters would set shutter speed around 1/1500 but I like to keep mine around 2000.


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



RustyTheGeek , 
Prior my 400mm f2.8 IS II, I shoot a lot with 70-200 f2.8 IS II with 5D III. Cropping was fun. Now, with 1dx + 400mm f2.8 IS II, shooting indoor swimming is fun 

I'm not a DR guy. I'm more like high ISO shooter. I do wish 1dx II will have good improvement in high ISO.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 8, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > I don't plan to buy an expensive tele-prime.
> ...



*Dylan777*, you've got me beat!! I usually don't sweat the price tags much. But all my shooting is for my own pleasure and volunteer work for the teams and other organizations. As much as I've spent over the years, I'm practically a pro with all the gear I have. But unfortunately, I'm not planning to go as far as you've gone. Wow. 1DX + 400mm f/2.8 IS II. Amazing. Just those two items cost close to what all my gear costs together and I've spent quite a bit over the years! My hat's off to you! 8) (Of course I realize you could be renting but somehow I doubt it!) Have fun dude!!


----------



## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > RustyTheGeek said:
> ...



I think we hijacked this thread from OP. 

The most important - If we happy with our photos, who care what others think. I do hope you soon be an owner one of the BIG WHITES


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 8, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I think we hijacked this thread from OP.



I think you're right *Dylan*! Sorry *Sabaki*! :-X


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 8, 2014)

I have the 6D and the 7D and also use the company 5D MKIII. The 7D is the tool for wildlife, motor racing and fast sports. The 6D I use for landscape & travel and increasingly is my camera of choice. It gives nothing to the 5D MKIII in IQ but the areas the 5D MKIII is supreme are rock concerts with moving band members, with fast lenses and my biggest irritation with the 6D is the removable ground glass that gets dust between the ground glass & prism which doesnt happen with the 5D MKIII. 
The 7D and the 5DMKIII share the same control layout and the toggle is much easier to use than the 6D which uses the same set-up as the 60D / 70D. The 6D however has GPS and Wi-Fi both of which are great for landscape and I use the app. on my iPhone as the romote release whilst effectly having live view detached. The GPS data goes straight into either Lightroom or Aperture and on somewhere like Dartmoor gives precise location.


----------



## RustyTheGeek (Aug 8, 2014)

Great post *jeffa4444*! I think I learned something about my 6D I didn't know! The ground glass prism thing is weird. I'll watch for it.


----------



## Ruined (Aug 10, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> My 500D, noble beast that she is, needs to be retired.
> 
> Her AF isn't sufficient when trying to catch quicker birds in flight and when it comes to low light photography, anything over ISO 800 affects image quality.
> 
> ...



My advice is 6D + 70D + nice lens you would have spent extra for the 7D2.

5DIV will be out soon and will likely bring new sensor technology with it. 6D sensor is better than 5D3's, 5D4's will probably bring something all new to the table.

70D does most of what you need out of a "7D2" and is likely going to be far cheaper for a long time - plus unlikely 7D2 will bring radically new crop sensor technology as the 70D already did just bring new sensor tech to crop recently.

In good light (iso 1600 or below), when reach limited using a crop is better than FF IMO due to both composition (you can actually see what you are trying to frame) and pixel density. It also greatly speeds post processing and as a bonus gives you more FOV options with your prime lens set due to the crop factor.


----------



## Ruined (Aug 10, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Great post *jeffa4444*! I think I learned something about my 6D I didn't know! The ground glass prism thing is weird. I'll watch for it.



I think he is talking about the user removable focus screen of the 6D/1DX, which the 5D3 lacks. I actually consider this a "con" of the 5D3, and a "pro" of the 6D. The 5D3 stock focus screen stinks for manual focus with fast lenses and doesn't show you what you'll actually be getting with fast lenses in the final product even with autofocus. The 6D you can swap in the Eg-S screen for fast lenses, similar as you could on the 5D2 and 1DX. If most of your lenses are f/2.8 or faster, you will want the Eg-S screen and not the stock screen.

Ironically, the 5D3 focus screen is not truly "fixed" in reality, though, remove a couple of screws that hide it and you can take it out just like the 6D screen: http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/5d3en.htm
That plate probably makes it slightly more dust resistant, but I would not think dramatically so.

...however there is no firmware options in 5D3 to correct auto exposure with matte screens (as is case with 6D/1DX) so this is not a good solution and voids warranty. In reality, I believe this is a feature Canon removed to differentiate the 5D3 from the 1DX. Yes, having the focus screen a little more exposed can make it a little more susceptible to dust, but it is also easy to clean and the ability to change screens far surpasses the downside of potentially having to clean it once and a while. I am hoping they bring interchangeable focus screens back to the 5DIV, I am getting tired of Canon removing petty features from cameras in the name of "differentiation." Lack of interchangeable focus screens is one of the things that led me to buy a 6D over a 5D3, I think its a pretty basic feature that is ridiculous for a $2500+ camera not to have.


----------

