# Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 5, 2013)

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<p><strong>Yes, this is a Canon site

</strong>I realize this is a Canon site. However, every so often a camera announcement from another brand is important. This is one of those announcements. Nikon has introduced a small full frame photographers camera. Everything about it is for the photographer, there isn’t even a video feature.</p>
<p>I get a lot of questions from photographers asking why Canon seems to care more about the videographer than the photographer now. I have no good answers, just a hope that Canon will introduce some serious gear just for photographers.</p>
<p><strong>FALL IN LOVE AGAIN: NEW Df D-SLR IS UNDENIABLY A NIKON WITH LEGENDARY PERFORMANCE AND TIMELESS DESIGN</strong>

MELVILLE, NY (November 4, 2013) The new Nikon Df is a modern classic designed for those who have felt a connection to their camera, who revel in the idea of going out to photograph an unfamiliar location, and who know the effort and ultimate satisfaction that is part of getting the shot. Announced today, the Nikon Df is a unique, advanced-level D-SLR that harmonizes Nikon heritage and modern performance in a lightweight and very capable FX-format camera. The new Df pays homage to the enduring style and controls of Nikon’s distinguished “F” series of 35mm film cameras, yet features technology similar to Nikon’s professional flagship D4 D-SLR. Released alongside the similarly styled AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8G Special Edition lens, Nikon’s newest FX-format D-SLR presents a versatile and reliable option to help passionate photographers truly achieve their creative vision.</p>
<p>“Nikon cameras have played an important role in documenting world history for the better part of 50 years, and have earned their position as a reliable tool that pros and enthusiasts can count on. The Nikon Df represents much more than a storied legacy of cameras; it’s more about giving the user a chance to truly enjoy the experience of taking amazing images,” said Masahiro Horie, Director of Marketing and Planning, Nikon Inc. “The design is unwavering, and the features are the latest in Nikon imaging technology. The Df brings together the best of yesterday and today for advanced full frame photographers.”</p>
<p><strong>Nikon Df DSLR Body: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013090-REG/nikon_1525_df_dslr_camera_black.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Black</a> | <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013089-REG/nikon_1526_df_dslr_camera_silver.htmlBI2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Silver</a> | Nikon Df DSLR w/50 f/1.8: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013094-REG/nikon_1527_df_dslr_camera_with.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Black</a> | <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013093-REG/nikon_1528_df_dslr_camera_with.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Silver</a></strong></p>
<p><strong>Nikon 50 f/1.8G Lens: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013096-REG/nikon_2214_af_s_nikkor_50mm_f_1_8g.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Black</a></strong></p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>A Classically Styled, Thoroughly Modern Masterpiece</strong></p>
<p>From a robust feel, to mechanical dials and finely detailed craftsmanship, the Df embodies the very best of Nikon’s photographic legacy. The classically styled camera recalls design cues such as a recognizable pentaprism and top cover, which is now constructed of durable, lightweight magnesium alloy. The top of the camera features elegant yet sophisticated mechanical controls for settings, letting users feel the tactile reassurance of adjustments, such as a familiar click stop for shutter speed adjustment. Additional dedicated dials also control ISO, exposure compensation, release mode and exposure mode, while modern controls are also easily accessible. The intuitive control layout allows for quick and confident setting adjustment, yet retains a solid operational experience that “feels like a Nikon camera.”</p>
<p>The Df has been designed with an emphasis on familiar intricate details made famous from previous generations, including the leather-textured top and grip, along with the body mounted shutter button with a threaded release port. The design also recalls the slenderness of the previous generation’s cameras, making this the smallest and lightest FX-format camera in Nikon’s lineup.</p>
<p>It isn’t all about good looks though, as this enduring design is coupled with legendary performance to create a very capable and extremely appealing FX-format offering for professionals and enthusiasts. The 16.2-megapixel FX-format CMOS sensor of the Df is inherited from Nikon’s professional flagship D-SLR, the D4. The large 36 x 23.9mm CMOS sensor is praised for its ability to produce amazing image quality in a wide variety of lighting conditions. Whether shooting landscapes, wildlife or weddings, the frames captured with the Df exhibit amazing clarity, accurate color and a broad dynamic range. In addition, Nikon’s exclusive EXPEED 3 image processing engine helps propel image quality, yielding images with a natural color and depth, all while enhancing subtle and nuanced tones.</p>
<p>Additionally, like the professional Nikon D4, the Df performs well in a wide variety of challenging lighting conditions with an exceptionally wide ISO range from 100 to 12,800, expandable to a staggering ISO 204,800. The combination of low noise and wide range make this an appealing camera to take on the challenges faced by photojournalists and event photographers, as well as those who enjoy the pursuit of extracting otherwise impossible images using natural light.</p>
<p><strong>A Feature Set for Passionate Photographers</strong></p>
<p>The Nikon Df is engineered to enhance the experience of taking photos and represents a culmination of decades of experience and feedback from photographers in the field, the studio and the sidelines. From its proven AF system to modern connectivity and legacy lens compatibility, the Df contains the century’s best photographic features for an enjoyable all-day shooting experience.</p>
<p>AF System: The convenience and precision of Nikon’s 39-point AF system is proof-positive of the benefits of modern technology. With 39 selectable AF points throughout the frame for precise focus, the Df also features nine cross-type sensors, and seven AF points capable of working down to f/8. Users can also choose from a variety of AF area modes to match their shooting style: 9-point, 21-point, 39-point, 39-point with 3D Tracking and Auto Area AF.</p>
<p>Get the shot with 2016-Pixel 3D Matrix Metering and Scene Recognition System: This Nikon system analyzes each shooting scenario and determines proper camera settings, resulting in even exposures, accurate white balance and precise AF. To capture action sports, wildlife and other fast moving subjects, the Df has a continuous burst shooting rate of up to 5.5 frames-per-second (fps).</p>
<p>Compose with a 3.2-inch LCD Display and Glass Pentaprism Viewfinder: Users can easily compose through the high-resolution LCD screen or the bright optical viewfinder. The LCD screen has 921K-dot resolution, making it easy for users to adjust additional settings, review images or compose using Live View. Using the glass optical viewfinder, users will enjoy 100 percent accuracy and a bright field of view. What’s more, the shooting data presented through the viewfinder has also been updated and digitized.</p>
<p>Connect and Share Instantly: Another modern touch allows users to connect and share their images instantly using the optional WU-1a Wireless Mobile Adapter1. By connecting to a mobile device, users can download and share images or remotely fire the camera.</p>
<p>Features for Creativity: Photographing dramatic monochrome or vivid landscapes is easier with Nikon’s Picture Controls, which allow for the customization of color, saturation and tone. The Df also features built-in High Dynamic Range (HDR) to combine multiple shots with enhanced tonal range, and two to five-frame auto-bracketing. For maximum control, images can also be captured in JPEG, TIFF or RAW file formats.</p>
<p>Support for a Storied NIKKOR Legacy: In addition to being compatible with all current AF, AF-S, DX and AF-D NIKKOR lenses, the Df is also compatible with classic Ai and non-Ai NIKKOR glass. Thanks to a new metering coupling lever located on the bayonet, the user has the ability to once again enjoy their lens collections with renewed functionality. Full-aperture metering is also supported.</p>
<p>Accessory System Support: The Df is compatible with Nikon’s Creative Lighting System (CLS), letting users take advantage of i-TTL exposure or fire multiple units remotely using a Speedlight commander. To remotely trigger the shutter, the camera also supports the new WR remote system, as well as the threaded AR-3 cable release, which screws in to the shutter button in the traditional style.</p>
<p>A Classic FX-Format Special Edition NIKKOR Prime</p>
<p>The new AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8G Special Edition lens is the result of classic NIKKOR styling combined with today’s optics to create the ideal focal length companion lens for the Df. The design honors original NIKKOR Ai lenses, with colors, texture, and an aluminum mounting ring that is mated to the style of the Df. This lens is ideal for everyday portraiture, landscapes and casual photography, but offers a wide aperture and seven-blade diaphragm for natural image blur and a dramatic depth of field. Despite the timeless design, the 50mm f/1.8G is created with modern AF-S design benefits to give photographers rapid response, quiet operation and excellent sharpness and clarity throughout the frame.</p>
<p><strong>Price and Availability

</strong>The Nikon Df will be available in late November 2013, invoking classic Nikon silver and black color schemes. The suggested retail price (SRP) of the Df (body only) will be $2,749.95*, while the Df and 50mm f/1.8 Special Edition lens kit will have a SRP of $2,999.95*. The AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8G lens will be sold separately for a SRP of $279.95*. For an additional flair of nostalgic style, Nikon is also offering black or brown leather carrying cases, the CF-DC6B and CF-DC6S (pricing and availability to be announced).</p>
<p><strong>Nikon Df DSLR Body: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013090-REG/nikon_1525_df_dslr_camera_black.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Black</a> | <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013089-REG/nikon_1526_df_dslr_camera_silver.htmlBI2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Silver</a> | Nikon Df DSLR w/50 f/1.8: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013094-REG/nikon_1527_df_dslr_camera_with.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Black</a> | <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013093-REG/nikon_1528_df_dslr_camera_with.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Silver</a> | Nikon 50 f/1.8G Lens: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013096-REG/nikon_2214_af_s_nikkor_50mm_f_1_8g.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">Black</a></strong></p>
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## paul13walnut5 (Nov 5, 2013)

I think the top half looks great, I think the bottom half looks like any other nikon. I would have loved to have seen a traditional stop down lever.

I would also loved to have seen a 'thumbs up' style rest, where the film winder would have been.

The kit lens doesn't even have an aperture ring.

In the main though, I think it's very cynical, the FMs were uncluttered, restrained almost. Simple. Essential. This looks like an EOS 50e. The lens doesn't have an aperture ring, and the spec is a bit 'old tech' but not in a funky hipster retro fixie bike way.

I'd prefer a D4 or an FM2. I think this is for folk who care more about what they look like taking photos than what their photos look like. I was a bit cynical about the OM-D and the Fuji X's but all of those cameras brought something new to the party, even if it was adorned in flares and a kipper tie.

This DF is just a crazy guy from accounts at a 70s karaoke in comparison.


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## dstppy (Nov 5, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I think the top half looks great, I think the bottom half looks like any other nikon. I would have loved to have seen a traditional stop down lever.
> 
> I would also loved to have seen a 'thumbs up' style rest, where the film winder would have been.
> 
> ...



Custom dictates the first post NOT be productive . . . I for one will be selling all my gear and moving to Nikon ;D


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 5, 2013)

Maybe the picture quality is wonderful (at ISO 100)  but it is a very ugly camera. What is that black jacket below the flash shoe? WTF!  Perhaps the all-black version is less hideous. :-X


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## Eli (Nov 5, 2013)

Anyone else think that thing looks hideous?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 5, 2013)

Outside the issue of ugliness, I liked the specifications. I'm serious. Use a good quality and low resolution sensor is the dream of some (few people) and costs less than D4. Honestly, if canon makes a retro camera (beautiful) with the same 1DX sensor, and sells cheaper, I'd love to.


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## Shane1.4 (Nov 5, 2013)

That camera looks amazing. I love the leather strap. Mostly I am jealous Nikon gets yet another 50mm.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

> FALL IN LOVE AGAIN: NEW Df D-SLR IS UNDENIABLY A NIKON WITH LEGENDARY PERFORMANCE AND TIMELESS DESIGN



Timeless design...like the Studebaker, wide lapels, and mullets. Timeless = dated. What Nikon has done here is analogous to taking a modern, powerful, fuel-efficient engine, handicapping that engine with a three speed transmission...and putting it into a Subaru Brat.


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## J.R. (Nov 5, 2013)

Nikon DF - 5.6 x 4.3 x 2.6" :: 710g for camera body 
Canon 6D - 5.7 x 4.4 x 2.8" :: 770g for camera body 

BTW, I think they've gone overboard on the pricing - the DF is more likely to be a fashion accessory than a primary shooting tool.


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## J.R. (Nov 5, 2013)

DR of only 13.1 Evs ??? The DR fanatics are going to have a field day


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## preppyak (Nov 5, 2013)

J.R. said:


> Nikon DF - 5.6 x 4.3 x 2.6" :: 710g for camera body
> Canon 6D - 5.7 x 4.4 x 2.8" :: 770g for camera body
> 
> BTW, I think they've gone overboard on the pricing - the DF is more likely to be a fashion accessory than a primary shooting tool.


Yeah, selling it as slim and light is an odd choice; it's barely smaller than their D600, the same size as a 6D, and double the size of the Sony offerings.


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## michaeleast (Nov 5, 2013)

I actually quite like the look of it, reminds me a bit of the old Nikon F2. 

Lack of video capability is a deal breaker. Video is an essential feature for me and I just can't see myself lugging around a second camera for video. Would have liked it to have a split-prism focusing screen too.


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## preppyak (Nov 5, 2013)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Use a good quality and low resolution sensor is the dream of some (few people) and costs less than D4. Honestly, if canon makes a retro camera (beautiful) with the same 1DX sensor, and sells cheaper, I'd love to.


Yeah, for Canon it would make sense, as the 1DX sensor does even better in low light than the 5dIII/6D sensors, both by DXO numbers and field tests. The D4 on the other hand is fairly similar to the D600 sensor; by the numbers its identical to it. Not sure you can charge a premium for that.

Its definitely really hard when the A7R comes in with an equally strong sensor at 2/3rd's the price


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## Shendo Photo (Nov 5, 2013)

"Hipsters are gonna hip."

I havent racked up too many posts yet, but I've been lurking here for a while. It seems like a recurring criticism of Canon is their inability or hesitancy to do something new and innovative, and instead just rehash old designs. If one were to believe that, this Df looks an awfully lot like a camera Canon could have made. There is virtually no new technology or features here. Instead, they are rehashing tried-and-true specs of their D4 sensor while hitting on the sensibilities of older film shooters.

All that said, I could see this selling well, as their marketing pitch so far seems to be pretty effective. That price seems a bit high for what the camera is, though. I guess all those knobs and levels raise manufacturing costs.


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## preppyak (Nov 5, 2013)

Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.

No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive


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## Brymills (Nov 5, 2013)

Does it take better photos than an equivalently priced existing Nikon camera, eg a D800 ? It smacks of the "emperors new clothes".


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## paul13walnut5 (Nov 5, 2013)

@preppyak

I wish.

AvTvM will be on complaining. 

He's yet to show me an image that video-enabling destroyed for him. I just want to understand why he is such an angry man about video.


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## distant.star (Nov 5, 2013)

.
This reeks of desperation.

I can see future business school classes talking about this -- in the annals of grasping at straws by desperate, dying companies.

Within a year, I predict we'll see a picture of some eccentric (and wealthy) nut with three of these hanging off his neck, pretending he's Dennis Hopper in "Apocalypse Now." This picture will probably come out of New York City -- and be an instagram taken with a cell phone!

Every day I enjoy my 5D3 more than ever.


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## sanj (Nov 5, 2013)

It looks great to me.
It is priced at what it is priced at because of its appeal. Simple.
And what is is more expensive than? 
Not having video does not make it "more" expensive, its niche appeal does. 

I applaud Nikon for giving its customers choices. 

My negatives to the camera: The design could have been more minimalistic. Yeah!


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## CR00 (Nov 5, 2013)

It looks cool, but not almost 3k cool.


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## RC (Nov 5, 2013)

J.R. said:


> ...the DF is more likely to be a fashion accessory than a primary shooting tool.


Exactly. I'd rather put my money towards my next _practical_ lens.


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## kpk1 (Nov 5, 2013)

Once again Canon seems to look so boring.
At least Nikon is trying to do something even if the Df is not that inovative. But GOD I like it a lot and its specs.
I have a 5D2 and a 5D3. I'll sell the 5D2 for the new to come in my bag, the Df. Maybe it's my ticket to Nikon.
For a while I'll keep both systems.
For the past 2 years the only things they did inovative was the damn radio into 600EX-RT. It's great but not enough for the hall system.
They need a big refresh, bodies and lenses.
Where's the 5D with great DR and ISO ? 
Where is the compact(retro) body with top specs for the pure photographer ?
Where are the 50mm lenses ?
Where are the 85mm lenses ?
Where is the new 35L ? Sigma smacked them with de 35/1.4 Art lens.

So Canon if my opinion counts then you should do:
A body in the Df style but with the 5D3 AF, slimer and lighter. Yes I would pay 2,5k.
Bring them faster into the market: 35/1.4L II, 50/2 IS, 58/1.4, 85/2 IS
5D4 with no more than 18mpx and great DR, good ISO 6400, 12800, a little better than the 1DX.
The mirrorless FF.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm a big fan of retro style((fuji x100s), but this Df doesn't look appealing at all.

I'm going to wait for Fuji FF mirrorless instead...


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## iam2nd (Nov 5, 2013)

preppyak said:


> Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
> 
> No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive



To put the argument to bed, wouldn't we need evidence that [at least part of] the reason that THIS camera is 50% more expensive than the D6X0 is -because- it lacks video? And if they later release a "Dfv" model with video, should it cost more of less than the Df?

I like the Df concept. In a down economy, it makes me wonder what's going on in the marketing and architect's heads. I guess their website says it clearly:
"...SEE HOW THE NIKON Df IS REIGNITING PASSION FOR PHOTOGRAPHY"
"...A REMINDER OF WHAT WAS ONCE SO IMPORTANT TO HER"
"...A WONDERFUL AND IMAGINATIVE BLEND OF OLD AND NEW"
"...A FAMILIAR, COMFORTABLE FEEL THAT STREAMLINES HIS PROCESS"
"HOW WILL Df REIGNITE YOUR PASSION FOR PHOTOGRAPHY?"

How many of us are in this target market?


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## Orangutan (Nov 5, 2013)

preppyak said:


> Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
> 
> No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive



+1

Well, it's a great marketing test: basically they crammed D4 innards into a retro design. This may tell Nikon a few things:

How many stills-purists are out there; i.e. whether they constitute a legit market
How many wealthy amateurs over 60 still pine for their glory days, and want to carry an expensive reminder. It's kinda like seeing a paunchy guy with thin grey hair driving an early-70's Barracuda.

And to all you CR stills-purists, here's your big chance to make your case. But if this doesn't sell well, please accept the results of the experiment and drop the anti-video complaints. (this comes from someone who rarely shoots video)


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## AvTvM (Nov 5, 2013)

preppyak said:


> Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
> No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive



Completely wrong. Nikon s decision to launch this Digital Frankenstein for USD/€ 2750,- has nothing to do with video yes/or no. It's the price point for a pseduo-retro, pseudo hipster fashion accessory. 

A true test would be for CaNikon to sell say the 6D and D610 each in a video-enabled" "v"-version and a "p"- pure photography version with absolutely everything equal, including outer design, except video-capture/video out [not firmware hackable]. "p" version being sold at USD/€ 1500 and the "v" version at 2500. One grand more is still dirt cheap compared to purchase of both a video and a stills camera. THAT way, we would see, whether videographers are just cheapskates piggybacking on stills shooter's DSLRs or whether they are willing to pay at least for a portion of their desired dual-use cameras. 

I KNOW what the market split would be. Less than 10% of those yelling for all sorts of video crap in DSLRs wpould be willing to pay anything for it.


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## Grumbaki (Nov 5, 2013)

J.R. said:


> Nikon DF - 5.6 x 4.3 x 2.6" :: 710g for camera body
> Canon 6D - 5.7 x 4.4 x 2.8" :: 770g for camera body
> 
> BTW, I think they've gone overboard on the pricing - the DF is more likely to be a fashion accessory than a primary shooting tool.



Thanks for pulling out the stats, the nail in the coffin of the mirrorless FF interchangeable lenses system crap on a stick.

Give us a damn mirror less FF 50m 1.2 and be done with it!

PS: apologies for badmouthing the a7r design, nikon manage to achieve worse (by doing a retro a7r, including the awful hump)


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## tiger82 (Nov 5, 2013)

If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?


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## Orangutan (Nov 5, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
> ...



More faulty logic: you are still assuming that video costs extra, whereas it's been well-argued (1) that video is largely a bonus derived from LiveView. Furthermore, the difference in manufacturing costs is negligible, it's all about R&D and sales volume. Mainstream cameras without video will not sell well, which will drive up the per-unit costs.

If you don't believe that video is nearly free, consider that there's half-decent video in $300 P&S cameras. Try to argue your way around that. A truer test would be to offer both models at the same price, and see which sells.



> I KNOW what the market split would be



If you really believe that then you are deficient in your science education. No one "knows" until the test is actually done.

(1) I say "well-argued" because while we don't have direct access to Canon's cost info, the principles have been well developed.


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## Orangutan (Nov 5, 2013)

tiger82 said:


> If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?



Because you already own a D800 and D800E? I think this is marketed to wealthy hobbyists.


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## Expat (Nov 5, 2013)

"*Digital (con)Fusion with the Nikon Df*" is what a genuine Nikon guy has to say about the Nikon Df at:
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/digital-confusion-with-the.html
That would be Thom Hogan who wrote: "when camera makers start making differentials by purely style issues, that means they've hit a wall in terms of technology, performance, innovation, and features".
I bought my first Nikkormat with a 50/2 lens in 1976. I opened my own fashion/editorial/advertising photographic studio in Montreal in the early 80s and whenever I used 35mm format it was all Nikon. I used Nikon all the way up to the F4. And I had a boat load of lenses. So it brings me no pleasure to express that I think the Df is hideous and to sadly wonder if this looking back with deep nostalgia by Nikon isn't an indication of numbered days for the brand.
The return to "real photography" jargon expressed in the article that began "yes, this is a Canon site" could have well been written by Nikon's marketing department. Which is really sad too. In one of the marketing pictures there are two really old lenses pictures. The 43-86 zoom is the absolute worse zoom lens I have ever used and its reputation as garbage is well known. The fast 55 pictured was not that good either. It also may have contained at least one radioactive element to correct aberrations - such as Thorium. In our time - the 21st century - we are looking to be as environmentally and health smart as we can so to see as a marketing ploy by Nikon a garbage zoom beside a lens that could make a Geiger Counter sing is super sad. 
I was under the impression, though I could be totally wrong, that this site was not maintained by anyone who could fit the following description by Thom Hogan: "So what retro design tends to be is a pure nostalgia play. A big part of the DSLR user base is older, and it learned photography on film SLRs that had dials. Suddenly we old-timers get dials back and we go all weak-artificial-kneed and start drooling, apparently." 
For the curious, I have been a Canon user since the EOS 1. My equipment list is long. But when I go out the door these days I grab a 6D with a 40/2.8 STM pancake mounted, and the 24/2.8 IS in my tiny sling bag. All that attached images were made at ISO3200 - just because....


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## mikea (Nov 5, 2013)

Beautiful!
Over the weekend I was looking at 1970s SLRs and my old Canon A1, which I'll never sell, and feeling all nostalgic about those great designs. Unfortunately, whereas you can still use a classic car, a film camera now has little practical use. I wish there was a way to put my 5DII innards into my A1 body. 
If I had the spare cash, I'd definitely buy this DF even if just for fun.


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## wtlloyd (Nov 5, 2013)

There's a place for nostalgia, and tech ain't it. Unless it's Steampunk, that which is but never was.

Where's the brass, Nikon?

Looking at that camera just makes me feel tired.


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## pedro (Nov 5, 2013)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Outside the issue of ugliness, I liked the specifications. I'm serious. Use a good quality and low resolution sensor is the dream of some (few people) and costs less than D4. Honestly, if canon makes a retro camera (beautiful) with the same 1DX sensor, and sells cheaper, I'd love to.



Plus one. Nikon seems to read the fora ;-) I could imagine buying a retro Canon AE1 type designed DSLR, 18 MP ... but as a high ISO freak I would like the 1Dx's high ISO range in it... 8) Looking at Canon's current price tags they might still ask 3K, just for the retro look ;-)


----------



## tolusina (Nov 5, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I think the top half looks great, I think the bottom half looks like any other nikon. I would have loved to have seen a traditional stop down lever.
> 
> I would also loved to have seen a 'thumbs up' style rest, where the film winder would have been.
> 
> The kit lens doesn't even have an aperture ring.......


Yes, stop down lever would have been a nice touch, at least it's got a prominent button, unlike my 6D that makes me wish for Elastic Man superpowers every time I reach for it.

Hadn't thought of the winder lever/thumb rest, good catch, had to go handle the AE-1 to recall the feel, maybe a lever there could be for BBF, er, BLF?

Missing aperture ring indeed, that was one of the first things to catch my eye.
I've worn out two digital Nikons, still breaking in my first digital Canon, EVERY time I've picked up any of those 3 DSLRs, I lament the missing aperture ring, I really, really miss those. 
I was downright giddy when I first handled my daughter's S90, aperture ring on steroids!!



paul13walnut5 said:


> ........ retro fixie bike way.....


 been there, got the bike long before there were Hipsters, got the t-shirt.



paul13walnut5 said:


> ......adorned in flares and a kipper tie........


Um, please Paul, what's a kipper tie??
----
I really like the look of this Nf but I'm ticked enough at Nikon from experience, I've got a few more years (at least) of saying and meaning "I never ever want to own another Nikon" that I just can't consider owning this new beauty.

Does make me continue to wish for a Pentax dLX, LXd, whatever they'd call an LX like, FF digital.


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## paul13walnut5 (Nov 5, 2013)

tolusina said:


> Um, please Paul, what's a kipper tie??


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## tolusina (Nov 5, 2013)

preppyak said:


> Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
> 
> No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive


Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.


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## 7enderbender (Nov 5, 2013)

Orangutan said:


> tiger82 said:
> 
> 
> > If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?
> ...




I know next to nothing about the Nikon system, but I think the appeal here may be that this camera is compatible with all the old Nikkor lenses. Something that Nikon had moved away from for all practical purposes on their more recent pro level cameras? Again, I'm not sure about this.

If this were the case it would make me sad in a way since this will never ever be a reasonable option for Canon. I have a bag full of nice old FD glass. I never liked the EOS/AF approach and only bought into it since with digital there was no other Canon choice available. And I didn't want to go the Nikon route a few years back because there are some Canon lenses for which Nikon doesn't have an equivalent. And a few other reasons at the time.

But had this thing been around and if it really takes old MF lenses without compromises (again, not sure about that) I would have had a very close look at this. I hope it's successful and hits a nerve with people who are sick of the spaceship cameras with touch screens and plastic lenses. I hope it's a trend because I would love to shoot again with a camera like that. Does it "take better pictures"? No. That was never the question. Remember the days when every camera loaded pretty much the same film? So that's not the point. It's how well a camera feels and handles and if you are happy to bring it along often.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 5, 2013)

I skimmed this thread and honestly, my heads hurts a little. I can already see this thread going off into all kinds of rants. Frankly, I love the retro stuff. I'll likely never sell my little AE-1 kit either. And I would love to have my 5D3 or 6D crammed inside of my AE-1. Or maybe a rangefinder. It would be sooo cool.

But that isn't going to happen and some of you may remember my own little rant a year ago about wanting a simple non-video low-res DSLR dedicated to photography. And now, here it is from Nikon for an insane price. And as much as I would love to see this from Canon, I have to admit that the Nikon is pretty silly mostly because of the insane price.

So my revised wish would be to have a 6D or 60D crammed into the old retro AE-1 Program body and priced around the same price or less of a 6D or 60D if it were APS-C. That would be fun. That's all. Fun. For those with disposable income that want a nostalgic fun camera. Don't beat me up about whether adding video costs more or not, recovering R&D budgets, market segments, etc.

It would just be fun to see and I might even buy one if it used my current lenses and flash.


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## AvTvM (Nov 5, 2013)

Orangutan said:


> More faulty logic: you are still assuming that video costs extra,



You got it wrong. I don't care in at all, how much it costs a camera maker to add video capability to a DSLR (it does cost something). ALL I am saying is, that camera makers should CHARGE more for dual purpose gear compared to single purpose gear. 

They should sell all cameras in a video-enabled version and a video disabled version. Video disabled version at significantly lower price. Video-enabled version at much higher price, but still much lower than combined cost of a stills and a video camera. That would be fair. That way, those who clamour for additional usage and functionality in a camera that is NOT required by many (stills photographers) would be made to pay for their part of the ride. 

It's like going on a cruise ... passage in cabin with sea view does not cause (significantly) higher cost to the cruise company than passengers in a "inner" cabin. But the price charged is hugely different. Simply, because users of the outward cabin get extra functionality/pleasure.


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## tolusina (Nov 5, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Um, please Paul, what's a kipper tie??



Oh sheet, thats what I wear when riding my fixed gear. 
Er, "fixie", a newbie, Hipster term I just can't absorb. Maybe, If I ever convert my Mixte to fixed gear, I might call that "fixte".


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## pedro (Nov 5, 2013)

RustyTheGeek said:


> So my revised wish would be to have a 6D or 60D crammed into the old retro AE-1 Program body and priced around the same price or less of a 6D or 60D if it were APS-C. That would be fun. That's all. Fun. For those with disposable income that want a nostalgic fun camera. Don't beat me up about whether adding video costs more or not, recovering R&D budgets, market segments, etc.
> 
> It would just be fun to see and I might even buy one if it used my current lenses and flash.



RustTheGeek: you hit the nail. That was my second thought after pushing post: But it's more expensive than the Canon 6D. So what...;-) Hope they'll come out with a low res AE-1ish retro product. I like these buttons and stuff. So, come on Canon bring it on, but don't cash in on us for the retrolook...Lol... 18MP, very usable ISO 102K. Might be too much of wishful thinking... 8)


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## Hesbehindyou (Nov 5, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> A true test would be for CaNikon to sell say the 6D and D610 each in a video-enabled" "v"-version and a "p"- pure photography version with absolutely everything equal, including outer design, except video-capture/video out [not firmware hackable]. "p" version being sold at USD/€ 1500 and the "v" version at 2500. One grand more is still dirt cheap compared to purchase of both a video and a stills camera. THAT way, we would see, whether videographers are just cheapskates piggybacking on stills shooter's DSLRs or whether they are willing to pay at least for a portion of their desired dual-use cameras.



How can you miss the point? I'll put it simply:

Selling in volume reduces costs per camera. By a lot.

Thus if having video features increases sales a lot then that camera is /cheaper/ than if it didn't include video (and sold a lot less).

When you say the stills version should cost less you are being ignorant; a stills version would cost more than the 'dual use' version we have now simply because it wouldn't take advantage of the economies of scale in both manufacturing, distribution and retail.

The video guys aren't piggybacking on you; you're piggybacking on them!


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## Albi86 (Nov 5, 2013)

tiger82 said:


> If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?



Or would I buy the Sony a7 AND the Zeiss 24-70/4 for the same price?

Nikon went all wrong on two important things: AF and MP.

You can't sell a camera for 3K in (almost) 2014 and have the same AF module of a middle-range consumer camera from the last generation (D5200).

With the performance of the 24MP D600/D610 sensor, it is all to be demonstrated what we're buying at the price of 8 MP, and if it's worth it. Better to buy a D800 and resize the files to 16MP. This camera doesn't offer amazing fps either, so the advantages of lower resolution are...? 

As a final touch, a kit would be welcome with a better lens than the 50mm/1.8 - the 1.4 version, at least? Please?


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## nazdar (Nov 5, 2013)

"...why Canon seems to care more about the videographer than the photographer now."
What?!? Canon gives a Sh*t on videographers! They setup just very medicore and crippled quality for videographers with tons of moiré, aliasing and barlely HD resolution all in beatifully mash-o-rama of horrible codec and low color bit depth. This is not quality Canon picture as we know it from photography. Its a gimmick. Instead of Canon company some enthusiasts from Magic Lantern helped for free to change video quality and finaly open the holly grail of RAW videography for few models. Thats it. I highly doubt you will get better photo camera if there will be no video in Canon cameras.
Even Nikon has better video quality in their cameras. I think you should blame somebody else


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## luckydude (Nov 5, 2013)

I don't get all the hating on this body, is that because it's not Canon or what?

While I've gotten used to Canon's controls on the 7D/5DIII, I've always yearned for the days of manual cameras.
The older manual cameras had the controls you needed as dials, which was nice. Digital added some stuff, like white balance control, that would need another dial. And then there is metering and AI servo and AF points, so maybe it's just not possible to give you all the controls as dials. I'd have to play with the Nikon to see how close they came.

At first glance it appears like Nikon was trying to build something for people like me that didn't want to wander through all menus. Canon's higher end cameras have buttons for all the stuff you want but the low end ones are more awkward. I dunno, at least Nikon is trying. Canon seems to be coasting. Where is the 7DII?


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## unfocused (Nov 5, 2013)

Expat said:


> "*Digital (con)Fusion with the Nikon Df*" is what a genuine Nikon guy has to say about the Nikon Df at:
> http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/digital-confusion-with-the.html
> That would be Thom Hogan who wrote: "when camera makers start making differentials by purely style issues, that means they've hit a wall in terms of technology, performance, innovation, and features"...



Very good article and he makes a lot of valid points. I'd encourage everyone to take the time to read it. Thanks for the link.



AvTvM said:


> It's like going on a cruise ... passage in cabin with sea view does not cause (significantly) higher cost to the cruise company than passengers in a "inner" cabin. But the price charged is hugely different. Simply, because users of the outward cabin get extra functionality/pleasure.



That's a really horrible analogy. Ships charge a premium for a cabin with a sea view because there is a limited supply. Simple case of supply and demand. 

Adding video to a camera increases the demand, but there is no practical limit to the supply, so the cost gets spread over a larger base and goes down. 

If a cruise ship could be built with 10,000 cabins all with sea views, the sea view cabins would be cheaper than a 500 passenger ship with a mixture. Of course, you'd then complain how unfair it was for you to have to "pay" for a sea view when you don't want to look out the window.




RustyTheGeek said:


> ...And as much as I would love to see this from Canon, I have to admit that the Nikon is pretty silly mostly because of the insane price.
> 
> So my revised wish would be to have a 6D or 60D crammed into the old retro AE-1 Program body and priced around the same price or less of a 6D or 60D if it were APS-C. That would be fun. That's all. Fun. For those with disposable income that want a nostalgic fun camera...



Good point (Although I'd prefer an F-1 to an AE-1). If this new Nikon were half the price there would be a lot more swooning. 

Funny thing is, the self-important, pompous advertising campaign seems to suck all the fun right out of this camera. They seem to be saying "this is a serious camera for serious photographers with some serious disposable income to spend so they can show people how serious of a photographer they are as they take serious pictures of campfires in the middle of the night, seriously." 


I sort of think Nikon missed the point that Fuji made with the X-Pro. Yes, the Fuji's are retro-looking but they are certainly not retro-functioning. Fuji got the design right. The only thing I can say about Nikon is that this camera isn't nearly as clueless as the Hasselblad Lunar.


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## dadgummit (Nov 5, 2013)

I am sorry to say but I am a total sucker for retro. I would buy this in a heartbeat if it were canon. 

Though I don't understand why they did not include video, wouldn't make much of a difference to me since I have used it exactly once on my 5d3 just to try it out.


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## Jay Khaos (Nov 5, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > More faulty logic: you are still assuming that video costs extra,
> ...



I see where the motivation to hope for this comes from, but until the photo/video world is monopolized by Comcast, this would be purely idiotic for a company to try. Not to mention, your suggestion benefits no one including yourself (well maybe Canon, assuming all their competition with video DSLRs immediately dies out). The cost to add video is completely insignificant in comparison to the total price of a DSLR, and huge in terms of making it a more valuable product.

My theory is that there is ONE reason why "purists" shun new tech. I work with them every day. It's envy and inadequacy. Back in their day when gear was too expensive for a non "professional" and there were less variables put into what the final product would be, it was easier to stand out and receive compliments. One of my coworkers is 60+ and [was] a photographer. We also have younger designers who do photography. The old guy is constantly preaching, "its not about the camera, its about the photographer" , "its a camera, why do you need video", etc. Everyone is respectful, and everyone (if only out of respect) lets him assume his role as the photography "expert". But even looking down to the basics, everyone is better than him at simply taking well-framed, interesting shots—while old man Wither is reminiscing about the old days and how much better his hometown was than our city, we're working in the entire adobe suite, not just lightroom. Don't get me wrong, I love nice gear, but ALSO appreciate going back to basics. I'll leave my full frame at home and use my iphone if I think I'll be in a situation where it'll more likely get the photos I want and not need the ridiculous IQ of my 5D.

The fact is, you can still accomplish what you could with an old camera. Put that self discipline to work, practice what you preach, put your camera in M and frame some nice photos. Meanwhile, I'll be taking video with the same camera.




AvTvM said:


> It's like going on a cruise ... passage in cabin with sea view does not cause (significantly) higher cost to the cruise company than passengers in a "inner" cabin. But the price charged is hugely different. Simply, because users of the outward cabin get extra functionality/pleasure.



This analogy might be half valid if each camera model were only a released with a predetermined, limited quantity, just like cruise tickets are sold.... in which case exclusivity would justify the price. Thats only touching the surface, but youre so far off here... it's not really worth going into economics 101.


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## JoeyJonaitis (Nov 5, 2013)

As a hybrid shooter, I am a little bias. But WHY would nikon make this camera have no video feature? The fact that it is missing video is what makes nikon, and ANY camera manufacturer lose my business and respect. At that point they are not trying to make the best camera they can, or push the market. They are just creating a gimic-ish product that WILL sell, because most people, don't know any better.


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## Woody (Nov 5, 2013)

J.R. said:


> Nikon DF - 5.6 x 4.3 x 2.6" :: 710g for camera body
> Canon 6D - 5.7 x 4.4 x 2.8" :: 770g for camera body



WRONG.

Nikon DF + battery + memory card = 765g
Canon 6D + battery + memory card = 770g

I've said it before and will say it again. The DF is too expensive, too heavy and too crippled (for its price compared to D610). A sure dud in sales.


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## paul13walnut5 (Nov 5, 2013)

tolusina said:


> Oh sheet, thats what I wear when riding my fixed gear.
> Er, "fixie", a newbie, Hipster term I just can't absorb. Maybe, If I ever convert my Mixte to fixed gear, I might call that "fixte".



Do you also wear slightly to moderately oversized glasses? And buy new releases on vinyl?


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## wsgroves (Nov 5, 2013)

Maybe I am just an idiot...but what is the retro look about and why does everyone want it? I sure do not want to walk around with a camera that looks like its from the 20's......maybe thats just me?


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## Etienne (Nov 5, 2013)

Eli said:


> Anyone else think that thing looks hideous?



Yes, It's definitely not for me.

On the other hand, the new Sony A7 and A7R look awesome


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## Etienne (Nov 5, 2013)

distant.star said:


> .
> This reeks of desperation.
> 
> Every day I enjoy my 5D3 more than ever.



"Every day I enjoy my 5D3 more than ever." I was thinking the exact same thing last weekend.

BTW ... with this Nikon DF, compared to the new Sony A7 and A7R, ... I think we are leaving the Canikon era and entering the era of SonyCan !


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## Albi86 (Nov 5, 2013)

wsgroves said:


> Maybe I am just an idiot...but what is the retro look about and why does everyone want it? I sure do not want to walk around with a camera that looks like its from the 20's......maybe thats just me?



The physical controls are the part that I like. The EV one is the best imho, just because usually changing this setting is the less straightforward operation. Had they one for flash exposure compensation it would be just perfect.


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## J.R. (Nov 5, 2013)

Etienne said:


> distant.star said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



Oops ... the threads at CR full of "Nikon is innovating" when the D800 came out. It took only a few zero events such as the D610 fiasco, the underwater camera and the Df to take the wind out of their innovating sails. 

And then there is Sony, who want to do something new every 6 months ... Those getting the A7/A7r must sure be hoping it is not another new mount


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## Etienne (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeyJonaitis said:


> As a hybrid shooter, I am a little bias. But WHY would nikon make this camera have no video feature? The fact that it is missing video is what makes nikon, and ANY camera manufacturer lose my business and respect. At that point they are not trying to make the best camera they can, or push the market. They are just creating a gimic-ish product that WILL sell, because most people, don't know any better.



They may be responding to that small percentage of buyers who feel put-out, insulted, or diminished by the rise of video and the relative retreat of photography (especially in the pro arena). Some of these photogs resent that their camera has a feature that costs them nothing extra, weighs nothing, and is easily ignored, but that other photogs embrace with success and enthusiasm. 

I would not buy a camera today that lacks video, in fact I have the 5DIII because it is the best overall photo/video camera I could afford. I still love photography, but I am learning video as quickly as I can. But I', not particularly brand loyal. I am watching Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, and even Nikon ... but the sum of all strengths and weaknesses still keeps me in the Canon camp.

I am seriously hoping that Canon has a response to the Sony A7 series, that sony puts the RX10 in a true video body, that Canon makes an XA20 type camera with APS-C, that the C100 gets 60p, h.264, and a price drop, that my 5D3 gets focus peaking by firmware , .... the list goes on, but you get the picture


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## deleteme (Nov 5, 2013)

While the camera really seems to annoy some here, I am sure it will attract a fair amount of interest but the price may put off a few.
The real issue here is Nikon is trying to cash in on the retro craze that is not just limited to cameras. They just may be overplaying their hand and hoping to collect the funds of hobbyists they hear on the internet bemoaning the loss of simplicity and directness of old style SLRs.
Sadly, they were not listening to their comments indicating how cheap they were.


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## J.R. (Nov 5, 2013)

Albi86 said:


> wsgroves said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I am just an idiot...but what is the retro look about and why does everyone want it? I sure do not want to walk around with a camera that looks like its from the 20's......maybe thats just me?
> ...



When shooting a film camera the controls were few so operating the camera was fairly easy. Now, given the plethora of dials, knobs and levers, would operating the camera like the Df at night be easy? 

The current DSLRs provide all the controls (while shooting) with a single hand. With the Df, one will have to use both hands which IMHO will present more problems than solutions.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

tolusina said:


> Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.



You seem to be one of those folks for whom "sensor" is synonymous with "camera." Do you make camera purchase decisions based solely on DxOMark Sensor Scores? FYI, there's more inside a camera than the sensor. Let's look, shall we?

D4 Df D610 Like D4? Like D610?
Sensor 16 MP 16 MP 24 MP ✓
AF points 51 (15 cross) 39 (9 cross) 39 (9 cross) ✓
AF sensitivity -2 EV -1 EV -1 EV ✓
Metering sensor 91,000 pixel 2,016 pixel 2,016 pixel ✓
Max shutter 1/8000 s 1/4000 s 1/4000 s ✓
X-sync 1/250 s 1/200 s 1/200 s ✓
Exposure Comp ±5 EV ±3 EV ±3 EV ✓

Look at that list, and explain how the 'guts' of the Df are more like the D4 than the D600/610...

Allow me to repeat my earlier statement, with a few modifications: What Nikon has done here is analogous to taking a modern, powerful, fuel-efficient engine, (the D4 sensor), handicapping that engine with a three speed transmission (the D600/610 AF sensor, metering sensor, shutter assembly, etc.)...putting it into a Subaru Brat...and slapping on a Mercedes price sticker.


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## GmwDarkroom (Nov 5, 2013)

I love the idea of a camera focused on photography and ditching the video.

However if it means going back to 70's ergonomics, I'll pass. The first time I got my hands on a T90 was my farewell to that miniscule grip on SLRs.

At least it doesn't use those LR44 batteries.


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## iron-t (Nov 5, 2013)

I really like the style and the control layout looks wonderful, but isn't it hard to justify a $2700 price tag on a body with a 16 MP sensor? A few years ago that would have been pro spec, but not so much now. A used 1D4 shooting 10 FPS is pretty close in price, and if you need full frame a 1Ds3 is cheaper and has much higher resolution.

Lack of video is not a feature. I almost never shoot video but I'm not sad my 5D3 can do it. I get the feeling Nikon is positioning the Df to appeal to status seekers looking to prove they're REALLY SERIOUS about photography. To whom I say: SHOW ME THE IMAGES!


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## Radiating (Nov 5, 2013)

This camera is also probably the best street photography camera that exists. The sensor has the lowest noise level of any full frame current DSLR. This is the first compact camera to have a full frame ultra low noise sensor in a compact body. Noise is always my biggest issue in street photography.

The purpose of the Nikon DF is in no way a fashion accessory because a camera is not part of an outfit. If anything it's a tool that is built in a way that is designed to appeal to the photographer, not onlookers.

Creating art is sometimes about the process more than about the result or performance and having a pleasing tool is nice. Besides that the manual controls make you more involved in the general process.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.
> ...



Beautifully composed.


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## sanj (Nov 5, 2013)

Radiating said:


> This camera is also probably the best street photography camera that exists. The sensor has the lowest noise level of any full frame current DSLR. This is the first compact camera to have a full frame ultra low noise sensor in a compact body. Noise is always my biggest issue in street photography.
> 
> The purpose of the Nikon DF is in no way a fashion accessory because a camera is not part of an outfit. If anything it's a tool that is built in a way that is designed to appeal to the photographer, not onlookers.
> 
> Creating art is sometimes about the process more than about the result or performance and having a pleasing tool is nice. Besides that the manual controls make you more involved in the general process.



You mostly right in my opinion. Except for looks of a camera does matter to the photographer.


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## Sporgon (Nov 5, 2013)

Etienne said:


> "Every day I enjoy my 5D3 more than ever." I was thinking the exact same thing last weekend.
> 
> BTW ... with this Nikon DF, compared to the new Sony A7 and A7R, ... I think we are leaving the Canikon era and entering the era of SonyCan !



Certainly the Canon 5 & 6D form have a simple but functional beauty. The DF was Nikons chance to compete with this. I'd have to use one before making a judgement for myself. Pictures can be misleading. However at the moment I'd say if someone wants a small FF slr for 'pure photography' ( the Nikon definition ) then a 6D fitted with manual screen and a cache of Zeiss lenses would fit the bill. 

Oh ! And don't switch the video function on


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## tolusina (Nov 5, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Oh sheet, thats what I wear when riding my fixed gear.
> ...


Nope. Ray Ban Aviators, they are set of nicely by my silver beard.
Nope again, sold off vinyl when it was only just old, not yet ancient. I do miss setting up tone arms though. I miss changing film rolls too, but I don't miss having to change film rolls.


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## sanj (Nov 5, 2013)

Nothing wrong with vinyl.


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## Etienne (Nov 5, 2013)

tolusina said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > tolusina said:
> ...



You're not much older than me. But the only thing I miss from the days of my youth, is my youth.


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## SPL (Nov 5, 2013)

I like it…and I kinda get it….oh well. I have a thing for the X100s and would like Canon to make something similar; retro, FF, no video (I absolutely have no use for it…,that’s just me though), and would accept my L glass. But I also agree with many,..this may be a marketing ploy to scoop up buyers. This will be an interesting thread to watch over the next day or so…but,….I like it


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## poias (Nov 5, 2013)

That is an ugly camera. People will be flocking to Canon, so hold on to your hats folks. I will be putting my gear on craigslist to lure wary Nikon users.


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## J.R. (Nov 5, 2013)

The more I think about it the more it feels like Nikon is having its own "Limited Edition PowerShot" moment on a larger scale. At least, Canon had the sense to keep it a "limited edition". After the first rush of purchases from the old-school club (most probably in their 50s or more) is complete, I don't see a market for the Df - I doubt whether this is a camera the young crowd will aspire to - seems much too clunky.


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## infared (Nov 5, 2013)

I think it is a cool camera (I am old school)..not that I would by it...as it is WAAAAAAAAAY overpriced.
My FM2 was VERY inexpensive compared to my F2AS. 
I have a Canon FF system.. 
But I am eying the Sony A7 & A7r way more than a camera like the Nikon...even if Canon made one...(the price would be HIGHER)...I still would be getting a crick in my neck with the Sonys....(if they just had some decent, fast AF lenses..I'd be outta here).
I do love the fact that there is no video on the new Nikon...love it! WOW...its JUST a camera...to me that is refreshing....(certainly not enough for me to change systems, though....).
I believe my next camera is going to be the Olympus M1. Small is nice.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 5, 2013)

Assuming Leica M9 can sell 1000 units per year, this Nikon DF can sell 5000 units per year.  A success of this Nikon ugly can steal market Leica M9. 8)


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## tolusina (Nov 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.
> ...


Hmm, and are you one of those folks that thinks something other than the sensor is the real heart and soul of a camera?
Think back to film SLR days, one could and did change image characteristics by changing film. We can't do that anymore. You, well maybe not you, I select sensor characteristics, then accept the body that sensor comes in.

Nice chart, hope it wasn't too much work.

AF is only wishfully mature, it's really still an acne faced adolescent. 
Make a guess please, what percentage of threads here on CR are expressions of exasperation with AF performance, 15%, 30%, more? Less? There are a lot, whatever the percentage is.

I have to bite my fingertips every time I see any complaint about AF performance, I really want to type out advice about learning how to quickly and accurately take over from AF P&S, get to manual focus and get the shot. 
Poke around, select individual points? Really??? You've got time for that? You practice that?
Why is AFM now built in? Because AF technology is still immature, it should just work making that DSLR AF function as simple as P&S.
Manual focus, just take over at the first sign of the AF gimmick's failure to perform.

So, all the AF point differences listed in your chart are relatively low weight.

Yup, the metering number differences in your chart look huge, do they mean much to the final exposure? Seems to me that selecting the final exposure variables is one of the things that sets photographers apart and above iPhone shooters.
How's the weight of metering number differences holding up now?

The rest of the chart, nits, no, not nuts, nits.

Automotive analogy, really Neuro, as long as you've been here, you should know better.
Sure, let's take the latest Corvette engine, stuff it in the back of a Brat, but let's just use a two speed PowerGlide, step out of the way please, no MBZ price tag involved. We do want to jack in some good brakes.
A better automotive analogy to what Nikon has done with this Df, would be taking something like say, a '67 Fairlane Convertible to a tuner shop like Roush, Saleen or Hurst, install the mechanical guts from a 2013 Mustang. You'll still have to put the top down by hand, adjust the mirrors by hand, no power locks, no automated climate control, just basic A/C, no computer controlled seat adjusters, no computers at all excepting those needed for engine management.
---
All that said, previous experience wearing out two Nikon DSLRs causes me to (currently, subject to change as absolutes are) never ever want to own another Nikon.

Even with that said as a former Nikon fan, I definitely think the Df is cool stuff, even better if it inspires Pentax to a FF digital LX.

Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......


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## Chosenbydestiny (Nov 5, 2013)

Wow, they took video away and made it more expensive. I guess that takes away the useless assumption that video adds to the price =P


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

tolusina said:


> Think back to film SLR days, one could and did change image characteristics by changing film. We can't do that anymore.



Yes, the Nikon Df harkens back the the days of yore, when photography was pure. Today we have these nifty things called computers. I can make my images look like they were shot with Tmax or Velvia (both of which I used, long ago), all after the fact. Plus, it's kinda nice not to have to burn the rest of the roll, or rewind carefully to leave a tab exposed, when wanting to change ISO speed. 



tolusina said:


> You, well maybe not you, I select sensor characteristics, then accept the body that sensor comes in.



Not me, that's true. I evaluate *camera* characteristics, of which the sensor is an important one, but far from the only one. If you accept a body with AF performance that doesn't get the job done or a frame rate that's too slow for your needs, then the best sensor IQ in the world won't yield sharp images, or images of the peak of action. 

Wait, you said something about AF, right?



tolusina said:


> I have to bite my fingertips every time I see any complaint about AF performance, I really want to type out advice about learning how to quickly and accurately take over from AF P&S, get to manual focus and get the shot.
> Poke around, select individual points? Really??? You've got time for that? You practice that?
> Why is AFM now built in? Because AF technology is still immature, it should just work making that DSLR AF function as simple as P&S.
> Manual focus, just take over at the first sign of the AF gimmick's failure to perform.



Your fingertips must be scarred rather badly by now. In the manual focus days, we had cameras and lenses that were designed for it - stock focusing screens that didn't make fast lenses seem slower, lenses with smooth manual focus rings that had a nice, long throw (even among L lenses, only my 600 II seems to echo that feel). Granted, some cameras can be fitted with appropriate focusing screens (notably, not the Nikon Df, for all it's retromagical 'purity'), and there are some lenses that are good for MF (most of those predate modern lens design and coatings optimized for digital imaging). However, to suggest falling back on manual focus as a routine practice makes about as much sense as recommending that everyone use an abacus to fill out their tax return. 



tolusina said:


> Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......



It's not the quantity, but rather, the quality...or more precisely, the lack thereof, that I find annoying.


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## klickflip (Nov 5, 2013)

As a photographer who grew up on Nikon FM's at college and many other larger format manual film cameras -

I THINK THIS IS AWESOME. 

Funnily enough I always used a Canon A1 hand down from my dad, that was always scoffed at by tutors and staff! 

I think this will be a great manual feeling camera to use and make you smile turning the dials to change shutter speed , iso etc. Shame they missed the aperture ring on the lens and didnt go for the F1.4 version at this price point, but guess you have the option to use older MF lenses to get the full experience back. 

Now for the haters, a hybrid / copy will always have some faults that could of been done nicer. Prob to save cost and keep functionality. 

Everyone discussing to death / slagging the Sensor / AF insides etc is nuts, It will be a very decent camera good that is very capable. Good enough AF for most of circumstances, and a very nice D4like sensor. 

Yes its slightly expensive for (as some will say 'just a 16 MP camera with D600/D4 old tech') but you're missing the point. 

I see this selling in bucket loads to older mainly retired enthusiasts, who loved their F's and probably have 7Ds or D300s/600s now. This will make past Nikon users switch back and feel really satisfied and warm inside. 

Very well done Nikon! I hope to see a few more cameras like this.. not too many tho. but gauranteed some more will copy and release horrible retro versions with a couple of token dials and a silver top just to cash in on retro sales.


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## Promature (Nov 5, 2013)

tolusina said:


> Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......



Because you seem to lack the ability to argue with facts, and so you argue with emotion. This will not get you far, except with the media.

So the F-150 and Mustang both have a 3.7L V6. Heck, the same 2.0T I4 is found in the Focus ST, the Fusion, and the Lincoln MKZ. Would you say they are the same car? Does the package surrounding the engine define the purpose of the car? Just because the sensor (motor) is the same, doesn't mean the package is the same.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

Next up, Sony jumps on the retro bandwagon, with their new line of 4K HDTVs...







Just look at all those buttons and dials!! ;D


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## GuyF (Nov 5, 2013)

Sample images 4 and 5 here: http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/df/sample.htm were taken at the Edinburgh Fringe festival in August.

I was there and saw this photographer with an old Nikon and thought, wow, someone still shooting with film but when I saw him look at the results on the rear screen I realised what was going on and howled, "Die, hipster, die!!". The crowd applauded when I knocked him out with a single punch - most thought we were some sort of street theatre group. Ah, memories....


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## Promature (Nov 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Next up, Sony jumps on the retro bandwagon, with their new line of 4K HDTVs...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Careful watch you wish for. If the PPI of an iPad were scaled to that TV, it probably would be a 4k HDTV.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

Promature said:


> Careful watch you wish for. If the PPI of an iPad were scaled to that TV, it probably would be a 4k HDTV.



But it wouldn't have all that cool retro wood paneling, now, would it?


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## Promature (Nov 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Promature said:
> 
> 
> > Careful watch you wish for. If the PPI of an iPad were scaled to that TV, it probably would be a 4k HDTV.
> ...



I told you to be careful:


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

Promature said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Promature said:
> ...



Fair enough. If only I liked the design of the Df, I might be tempted to get a wooden iPad case (although those cases are far too sleek and curvy to be a good match for the Df). 

Now, _this_ one.......


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## Promature (Nov 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Fair enough. If only I liked the design of the Df, I might be tempted to get a wooden iPad case (although those cases are far too sleek and curvy to be a good match for the Df).
> 
> Now, _this_ one.......



_Yesssssss!_


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## Canon 14-24 (Nov 5, 2013)

A shame the Canon rumors site has to provide off brand posts to compensate for the lackluster year of announcements and releases...!

Where are the announcements for the: 

Canon 14-24 !!!
Canon 17-50 !!!
Canon 35 1.4 II / 1.2 !!!
Canon 50 1.4 II / 1.4 IS !!! 
Canon 135 1.8 IS / 2.0 II !!!
Canon 100-400 II / 70-400 II !!!

Canon 5DX or 3D high megapixel FF version !!!

Oh well probably more new kit STM lens and rebel announcements...


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## skullyspice (Nov 5, 2013)

I like the idea. If Canon made one that looked like the F1N I would be interested but only if the insides were also cutting edge. There is something to be said for style. I just bought my sixth F1N with motor drive. I dont shoot nearly as much film as I used to but you cant beat the look and sound of that camera.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Promature said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Neuro,
Believe it or not, my 5yrs daughter wants to dress-up her new Ipad Air everything in pink. I think these types of accessories will create a lot of money :


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## ishdakuteb (Nov 5, 2013)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > tolusina said:
> ...



aggree and love the last statement of "allow me to reapeat..." about the mercedes price? i am not sure if there was anything to do with "made in japan" that nikon chose to label right on the top of its camera?


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## duydaniel (Nov 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.
> ...



The D610 has ±5 EV
The Df also goes as high as D4 in ISO 200k


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> The D610 has ±5 EV



Thanks for the correction, I was looking at the D600 specs. Good to know they did something besides fix the oil splattering with the D610 "upgrade".


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## V8Beast (Nov 5, 2013)

tiger82 said:


> If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?



Exactly what I was wondering. For $250 more, I'd rather buy a D800. Small, mirrorless bodies still aren't for me, but if I was in the market for one of these gizmos, I can't see any reason to buy a Df over a Sony A7R. With the Sony, you get a far better sensor, and more importantly, you can adapt it to work with Canon glass.


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## scrup (Nov 5, 2013)

Are you listening Canon? Give us something to discuss else we will just feature your competitors on a Canon website. We are desperate for real content to keep visitors returning to this site.


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## Etienne (Nov 5, 2013)

V8Beast said:


> tiger82 said:
> 
> 
> > If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?
> ...



+1 ... Sony A7R ... I'm not a high MP user or landscape specialist, but this camera looks cool! and only 407g. It is begging for good lens options.


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## wockawocka (Nov 5, 2013)

A camera like this is all about the sensor. You can measure IQ based on that. It's Nikons flagship sensor, everything else connected is just fluff compared.

It's for people walking with their dog in the woods and sitting in a Luxembourg cafe. That's what the DF is for. Much akin to the Hasselblad Lunar. Which is for rich Arabs sitting in a Cafe in Luxembourg.


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## distant.star (Nov 5, 2013)

Radiating said:


> This camera is also probably the best street photography camera that exists.



This is *NOT *the best street photography camera that exists. I might concede that it might be the best street photography camera for YOU. First, it doesn't "exist" and will not exist until November 28 when you can buy one and actually test out your theories. 

Second, it is not a camera I would even consider for street photography.

Finally, there are as many styles and tools of street photography as there are street photographers. So, beware of making generalized claims about street photography. Any opinion you hold is not universally shared.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2013)

dilbert said:


> This is the second non-Canon camera product announcement on a "Canon" website in as many months (previous being Sony.)
> 
> That kind of says it all about where Canon's at with its product development, doesn't it?



Indeed. 

It says that Canon isn't announcing any developments in a dying market (mirrorless) or a long-dead market (over-priced film dSLRs, albeit with modified innards). 

It also says Canon's dSLR lineup is selling well, such that they're not forced to bring out niche products due to an inability to outsell the market leader in the mainstream arena (since Canon *is* that leader).


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## ewg963 (Nov 6, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name=\"googleone_share_1\" style=\"position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;\"><glusone size=\"tall\" count=\"1\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/11/off-brand-nikon-announces-the-df/\"></glusone></div><div style=\"float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/share\" class=\"twitter-share-button\" data-count=\"vertical\" data-url=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/11/off-brand-nikon-announces-the-df/\">Tweet</a></div>
> <p><strong>Yes, this is a Canon site
> 
> 
> ...


Yep that would be kinda nice to just have a camera for stills only...we'll see


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## poias (Nov 6, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> (since Canon *is* that leader).



Kodak called and agreed with you.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 6, 2013)

poias said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > (since Canon *is* that leader).
> ...



Yes, the parallels between Kodak and Canon, and the similarities between the market then and the market now, are astounding(ly small). 

Or maybe I misunderstand - is it really your contention that Canon will fail because they are refusing to focus on the coming dominance of mirrorless cameras? (Nikon recently called to disagree with that idea.) Or perhaps because they are missing the boat on the coming retro revolution? (The 70's called and they want all the disco balls back...but they had no interest in the Df.)


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## verysimplejason (Nov 6, 2013)

One thing, a wedding photographer might fall in love with this Nikon... Aside from the gorgeous look (a + from the client), they'll appreciate the "less" MP and high ISO performance (based on D4).


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## Grumbaki (Nov 6, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> One thing, a wedding photographer might fall in love with this Nikon... Aside from the gorgeous look (a + from the client), they'll appreciate the "less" MP and high ISO performance (based on D4).



Baffled by this. Did you forget the irony tag?

Clients want the cameras to look "pro" which isn't really, in mainstream, compatible with retro.


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## J.R. (Nov 6, 2013)

Too many posts here praising Nikon for coming out with a camera that is only "good enough". No new tech, menus replaced by dials and knobs with little or no IQ benefits. I thought pure photography was all about th images, not whether I need to turn a dial or access a menu. 

Had Canon come out with something similar, it would be accused of milking the same old sensor design, which is exactly what ion is doing and we still get posts such as - Canon where are you?


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## paul13walnut5 (Nov 6, 2013)

BREAKING:

Nikon make 'DF Upgrade' kit available to retrofit to any DSLR.

Kit comprises of funky retro qc sticker and rose tinted lens filter, at a very reasonable $799.99.


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## duydaniel (Nov 6, 2013)

J.R. said:


> Too many posts here praising Nikon for coming out with a camera that is only "good enough". No new tech, menus replaced by dials and knobs with little or no IQ benefits. I thought pure photography was all about th images, not whether I need to turn a dial or access a menu.
> 
> Had Canon come out with something similar, it would be accused of milking the same old sensor design, which is exactly what ion is doing and we still get posts such as - Canon where are you?



it's D4 sensor we are talking about. ISO goes upto 200k and it will challenge the 1DX in noise performance


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 6, 2013)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Actually, your premise is based on posts here in CR, a for-profit website that is dependent on hit count. No news is bad news, from a hit count standpoint. You're reading more into the posting of non-Canon news on CR than is warranted. 

FWIW, the current max visitor count for CR was on the day of the 70D announcement.


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## verysimplejason (Nov 6, 2013)

Grumbaki said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > One thing, a wedding photographer might fall in love with this Nikon... Aside from the gorgeous look (a + from the client), they'll appreciate the "less" MP and high ISO performance (based on D4).
> ...



No. I didn't forgot. To qualify, this DF isn't actually smaller than an average DSLR. Just look at the chrome finish and it's really screams "professional".


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## Grumbaki (Nov 6, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> Grumbaki said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



Yeah, screams professionnal just like a ducky ties does. I guess it's personnal tastes but I'd bet that a pannel of non photog would rate a 5d3 (or the nikon equivalent) as looking more professional. Specially with a grip, a white lens on or a mammoth like 85L...


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## Aglet (Nov 6, 2013)

dilbert said:


> ..people are so bored with what Canon are doing that they're looking elsewhere for excitement



+1

Exactly. A camera isn't just a tool to capture images.
Some cameras have a personality, a character, and some of them lend themselves better to certain uses by virtue of their design.

CaNikon bodies are, for the most part, rather bland black plastic looking bricks. I don't find any of them _exciting_ to use. The D800, for me, comes close but that's mostly because it works very well for what I want it for while most others were somehow disappointing.

This new DF actually looks like a camera design I would ENJOY using, although I'd prefer d800 guts to d4 guts in mine. I LIKE those manual knobs and buttons. They're unambiguous, you can adjust them easily by feel, even with gloves on or while the camera is still powered OFF.

The Df looks like an imaging INSTRUMENT, not a black box of wonders with various goodies buried in menus. The Df is very appealing to the photogs I know because it's causing a more emotional response with them. We don't NEED a Df, we WANT a Df. (or something just like it in the lens mount of your choice)


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## Grumbaki (Nov 6, 2013)

But by your measure, Aglet, a 60EUR Lubitel would satisfy your need too...


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## Pi (Nov 6, 2013)

Aglet said:


> We don't NEED a Df, we WANT a Df.



Canon's version will be fD.


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## J.R. (Nov 6, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> J.R. said:
> 
> 
> > Too many posts here praising Nikon for coming out with a camera that is only "good enough". No new tech, menus replaced by dials and knobs with little or no IQ benefits. I thought pure photography was all about th images, not whether I need to turn a dial or access a menu.
> ...



I'm not convinced that the market for the 1DX is of users looking only for the noise performance as the primary reason for buying the 1DX. No challenge in my opinion. 

Additionally, the native ISO is only upto 12,800 while the 1DX is at 51,200 - no challenge again unless you are going to tell me that the digital push and pull of two stops will not lead to poorer IQ - BTW, I've never shot with the D4 so this is purely my guess based on the specs.


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## J.R. (Nov 6, 2013)

Aglet said:


> This new DF actually looks like a camera design I would ENJOY using, although I'd prefer d800 guts to d4 guts in mine. I LIKE those manual knobs and buttons. They're unambiguous, you can adjust them easily by feel, even with gloves on or while the camera is still powered OFF.
> 
> The Df looks like an imaging INSTRUMENT, not a black box of wonders with various goodies buried in menus. The Df is very appealing to the photogs I know because it's causing a more emotional response with them. We don't NEED a Df, we WANT a Df. (or something just like it in the lens mount of your choice)



My discussion with a few friends from the local photo club who are Nikon shooters leads me to only one conclusion. This camera is polarizing opinions one way or the other. Some people love it while some find it infinitely ugly. 

The question is, is there a large enough market for such cameras? After the first wave of nostalgic purchases, who will buy into the overpriced retro look?


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## sanj (Nov 6, 2013)

Grumbaki said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Grumbaki said:
> ...



Disagree. I think it looks absolutely professional. And by all standards IS.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 6, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Oh I think it is a dumb move by Nikon but it is also a desperate move to try and create a segment of the market where they don't have any competition from Canon or Sony. I similarly think that the A7 and A7R are a dumb move that will ultimately go nowhere or be confined to shooting with lenses under 100mm in focal length.



*-1*...A7 series is a wakeup call for Canon & Nikon in term of still and landscape shooting. I can see the market shifts when Sony/Zeiss comes out some UWA, macro and 85mm lenses :


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## vlim (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't like these kind of old school inspiration, i don't understand why going that way beside selling it to people who likes that kind of design... I hope Canon won't go that way, they have enough work on a top 7dII body !!!


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## Sporgon (Nov 6, 2013)

I honestly don't think Canon will feel the need to produce a Df because their dSLR design hasn't gone off the rails like Nikon.


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## J.R. (Nov 6, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> I honestly don't think Canon will feel the need to produce a Df because their dSLR design hasn't gone off the rails like Nikon.



+1 

If Canon were to release a "retro" camera at this point in time, it will truly imply that it has lost the plot and is going to behave like a headless chicken. 

Just an assumption - Canon could be probably be working in a more sensible way in providing updates which will be more useful to its customer base rather than going backward with dials and stuff simply for the nostalgia.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 6, 2013)

J.R. said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > This new DF actually looks like a camera design I would ENJOY using, although I'd prefer d800 guts to d4 guts in mine. I LIKE those manual knobs and buttons. They're unambiguous, you can adjust them easily by feel, even with gloves on or while the camera is still powered OFF.
> ...



I'm not sure how any _real_ Nikon aficionado could be remotely interested in the Df. Of course, I'm basing that statement on the Nikon aficionados here on CR, and the fact that the Df has well over a stop less DR than the cheaper D800 or the much cheaper D610. 



Sporgon said:


> I honestly don't think Canon will feel the need to produce a Df because their dSLR design hasn't gone off the rails like Nikon.



+1 If you can't beat 'em, go play somewhere else. 

Df = desperate futility
Df = ******* to failure


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## J.R. (Nov 6, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> J.R. said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...



True ... a number of people are gushing with praise but I doubt whether they will put money where their mouth is


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## Sporgon (Nov 6, 2013)

Those of us that live in the real world know competition is a good thing for the consumer.

Let's just hope the creation of the DF wasn't suggested by the same market research gurus who suggested replacing the 12mp D700 with a 36mp camera :


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 6, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> Those of us that live in the real world know competition is a good thing for the consumer.
> 
> Let's just hope the creation of the DF wasn't suggested by the same market research gurus who suggested replacing the 12mp D700 with a 36mp camera :



It's like a tired boxer weaving around, trying to avoid that knockout punch. Waterproof MILC. Retro. Try every corner of the ring (niche market) you can reach.


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## Tiosabas (Nov 6, 2013)

If Canon were ever going to release a retro, now would be a great time and undercut the Df by few hundred. No one can deny that there is a market for these retro style cameras. I'm sure the Canon accountants are hearing ching ching sounds looking at all the hype that has been generated recently with smaller/lighter/retro offerings. This camera has made all the headlines in the last week or two. And Fuji are doing great with their line of retro cams. I see them more as a second camera, a smaller lighter option when you dont want to carry around the big black DSLR. Stick one lens on it and you are out for the day. This is were the Df fails miserably. Its as big as any full frame DSLR and as expensive so why bother? It doesnt provide enough differenciation from a modern DSLR. I would buy a Canon retro style or mirrorless only if it was smaller, lighter and took EF lenses without an adapter(adapters just add bulk).


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## Rick (Nov 6, 2013)

*I am confused by CR's implication*

I for one would scream bloody murder if Canon released such a camera while its camera lineup still lacks an answer to the D800 (or A7r). Besides, the absence of video doesn't make the DF a photographer's camera, least not a 21st century photographer.  

I don't begrudge enthusiasts their retro camera. Leica and Hassleblad do vanity stuff all of the time. But, let's get back on message, Canon, with a full complement of 35mm solutions before getting into the vanity market.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 6, 2013)

Tiosabas said:


> I would buy a Canon retro style or mirrorless only if it was smaller, lighter and took EF lenses without an adapter(adapters just add bulk).



Taking EF lenses without an adapter means maintaining a 44mm flange focal distance - so you can kiss one dimension of 'smaller' goodbye, which is why I doub't we'll see such a camera. 

OTOH, you've just descirbed the SL1, except it's neither mirrorless nor retro.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 6, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Has anyone bought the SL1?



It's above the D800E on Amazon's sales ranking. Imagine that...a dinky little dSLR with such poor DR outselling the camera with the best IQ of any camera currently available. People just don't have their priorities straight when it comes to buying cameras, do they? :

FWIW, last time I walked through a 'wholesale club' store, the pallet of SL1 kits was almost empty.


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## lholmes549 (Nov 6, 2013)

I said a while ago I would like canon to do something similar to this. Full frame camera in the old built-like-a-tank design, but with lenses with manual aperture control as well.


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## Tiosabas (Nov 6, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tiosabas said:
> 
> 
> > I would buy a Canon retro style or mirrorless only if it was smaller, lighter and took EF lenses without an adapter(adapters just add bulk).
> ...



Thanks I knew there some constraint like that. Actually I think the RX1/r still still the best size.weight/image quality solution as a second "go anywhere" camera. But who is going to spend 3300Eur on a second camera? Such a pity about the price but it might drop when the A7 is available.


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## Harv (Nov 6, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Um, can't really compare Df to D610, Df doesn't have D610 guts, it's got D4 guts at less than half the price.
> ...



Nicely put.

Unfortunately, there are people in this world who don't want to be confused with facts when their mind is already made up.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Nov 6, 2013)

removing video is this camera's biggest failure, not something to praise!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Nov 6, 2013)

It does seem a bit curious that they it delivers half fps less than the 5D3 despite deliver like 7MP less MP per image this late in the game. And the price seems high enough it could have supported a 7fps at least mirror box, you'd think. Then again, removing video probably doesn't lower the price at all, maybe even raises it, so maybe if they had put in video they could've afforded to bump it to 7-8fps .

The sensor is overall better than the one in the 5D3, better at ISO100 (although not to the degree the D800/D600 etc. are as the DR improvement is maybe only like half, although it's still nice, and this time you end up with less MP at the same time, so in some scenarios it might work out a little worse) and at ISO6400 where it has more DR.

Still it now not merely has worse video than 5D3 native video and radically worse than ML fixed 5D3 video it doesn't even have it all.

I sort of feel like a 7-8fps D800 with improved video would've been more exciting and put more pressure on Canon. (unless you live at the very high ISOs, then this is a little bit better)


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## 7enderbender (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeyJonaitis said:


> As a hybrid shooter, I am a little bias. But WHY would nikon make this camera have no video feature? The fact that it is missing video is what makes nikon, and ANY camera manufacturer lose my business and respect. At that point they are not trying to make the best camera they can, or push the market. They are just creating a gimic-ish product that WILL sell, because most people, don't know any better.




I think they're going after the market segment that wants a Leica but never pulled the trigger because of the even more insane cost. And I can totally relate.

Where they miss it after some more reading is that the viewfinder is not suited for manual focus (just like all modern DSLRs unfortunately - at least not in the way one would expect).

I would be perfectly happy to give up my gear for a pure, manual focus, manual dials full frame camera with good optics and good handling. No video, no gizmos, nothing that gets in the way of just making photographs.

I know this is not for everyone. And it's nothing we can expect from a Japanese company probably. So saving for a Leica it still is.


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## lilmsmaggie (Nov 6, 2013)

I already have a Retro looking camera and lens. It's called a Leica M5 w/ Summicron 50mm ;D


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## lilmsmaggie (Nov 6, 2013)

Ah, ah, ah ... Don't let the folks over at APUG, Large Format Photographers forum or RangeFinder forum hear you say that. 

Them's fighting words ...Lol

Not to mention all those Leica and Holga/lomography film shooters out there. 




mikea said:


> Unfortunately, whereas you can still use a classic car, a film camera now has little practical use.


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## tolusina (Nov 7, 2013)

Promature said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......
> ...


Thanks so much for making my point.
In this automotive example, the 'heart' (I should have posted "heart" rather than "guts" above) is the same even though the vehicle and features differ. The 3.7 has the same combustion efficiency regardless of what vehicle it is installed in, ditto the 2.0T.
To further this Ford automotive analogy, The MKZ can be had with a 2.0T or a 3.7, same package with similar features, different heart.

A similar analogy works when comparing the Df and the D4, same heart, different features.
Comparing the Df with the D610 reveals similar fearures with a far different heart as in the MKZ analogy.
---
Am I arguing with emotion as you state? I think not.
---


neuroanatomist said:


> to suggest falling back on manual focus as a routine practice makes about as much sense as recommending that everyone use an abacus to fill out their tax return.


Gee, sorry for you that falling back to manual focus makes abacus sense to you. To me, and possibly to many others it makes perfect and practical sense.
Any time any machine fails to respond as and when I expect, I appreciate when said machine allows me to take control and achieve the end result I expect and desire.

Are you saying you'd prefer lens manufacturers reduce price by leaving off manual focus rings? If not, pray tell why the hostility regarding practice to the point of expertise of manual focusing skills?
---


neuroanatomist said:


> .......it's kinda nice not to have to burn the rest of the roll, or rewind carefully to leave a tab exposed, when wanting to change ISO speed. ....


I quite miss doing just that, I do not missing having to do that.
---


neuroanatomist said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Um, er, only 50 some posts, I've drawn Neuro's ire already, oh my......
> ...


That ^ comment is unnecessary, un-called for and offensive.
---
Back on topic, I think the Df is absolutely gorgeous, the concept brilliant. Too bad it's a Nikon.




.


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## RGomezPhotos (Nov 7, 2013)

It's an 'okay' looking camera. It might even be better looking than the Sony A7(R) cameras. Maybe. But the Sony's have much better specs, do video AND are less expensive. Am I missing something?

I agree. If it were an APS-C sensor and costing around $1200, it would be a fun and cute camera to have. Even with FF, it's incredibly overpriced. $1800 tops.

Sorry Nikon. Thanks for trying at least. :'(


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## Aglet (Nov 7, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Just wait until your fore finger needs to reach up and press the shutter button...



color me different then, I prefer a top-deck SR button to the forward angled ones near the front of grips of most cameras today.
However, until I wrap my mitts around a real Df I can't say for sure how well this particular model will fit my hand. Various photos I've seen makes me think there's a good chance I will like it.

*What I'm already sure I won't like is apparently (somewhere I read that) the little PASM mode dial needs to be LIFTED to be turned! If true, that's daft!*
The button locks for the other dials should be easy enough to manage with one finger but it's gonna be next to impossible to change mode without taking that camera away from your eye and using both hands with some effort. It should just be a stiffly detented click-stop movement with PASM indicator in the viewfinder. I don't like how this part works, I regularly switch between A and M. This would slow me down a bit too much.


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## Kwanon (Nov 7, 2013)

This is the ugliest camera i have ever seen. it looks like a cheap nikon from every angle and the "classic" parts are really ugly and don't go together with the modern camera parts and doesn't even look classic or retro.

I really hope canon doesn't go with this design trend ever..

If it had a full metal body similar to the old ones this would be what it was meant to be.
It would still be ugly though.

Leica's are supermodels and the nikon df is a 60 year old grandma putting on some makeup and entering a beauty pageant.


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