# Circular filter stuck to Lee 77mm wide angle adapter ring. Help appreciated.



## bitm2007 (May 29, 2018)

I've got a Lee 77mm wide angle adapter ring stuck to my 77mm Breakthrough Photography x4 10 stop filter. I can't get them apart using elastic bands, filter wrenches, rubber mats, string etc because the recess of the wide angle adaptor is deeper than the depth of the filter. Any idea's ?


----------



## ahsanford (May 29, 2018)

bitm2007 said:


> I've got a Lee 77mm wide angle adapter ring stuck to my 77mm Breakthrough Photography x4 10 stop filter. I can't get them apart using elastic bands, filter wrenches, rubber mats, string etc because the recess of the wide angle adaptor is deeper than the depth of the filter. Any idea's ?



One of many reasons I don't stack my Lee WA 77 ring on anything other than the naked lens. If it's on the naked lens, getting the WA ring off is trivial.

Okay... getting helpful now. Give me a moment to almost recreate this problem with my gear, hang on.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (May 29, 2018)

I don't have the Breakthrough filter, but I've got a standard B+W UV 77 that I've threaded into the Lee WA 77 ring. Yeah, filter wrenches and rubber bands will not cut it.

Recommend -- of all things -- silicone tipped BBQ tongs. See pics, this model is from the kitchen store Sur La Table (didn't cost much) and I think Oxo also sells a few. The tips do indeed get in between the B+W and the inside walls of the 77 ring. Squeeze the tongs and give it a twist. This worked on my end, but your Breakthrough might be 'slim' / thin / etc. and you may have less surface area to clamp down on than I do.

Also possibly consider a silicone jar opener -- but instead of using the outside of the ring, simply press with friction down on the _bottom_ of the filter (i.e. 90 degrees to the ring, the leading surface that gets closest to the lens front element) and hope there's enough surface area to turn it. If you can't get it down in there with your fingers, you can possibly lay it over the top of the end of the filter and press it down with (say) a can / cup / etc that is just right diameter to push the silicone down on to the fiilter and not the WA ring, and then you twist the cup while pressing down on it. (Good likelihood you'll contact the inner filter surface by doing this, though.)

Good luck!

- A


----------



## jprusa (May 29, 2018)

I remember reading about tapping around the outside (lightly) a few times and it worked for them> worth a try.


----------



## fentiger (May 29, 2018)

a suction cup, not sure if it would damage the coating on the filter!


----------



## ahsanford (May 29, 2018)

jprusa said:


> I remember reading about tapping around the outside (lightly) a few times and it worked for them> worth a try.



That story is here:
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/26/remove-a-stuck-lens-filter-by-tapping-it-lightly-with-your-finger/

Not sure if that will work with the way that Lee WA ring has been designed, though. Worth a shot I guess.

- A


----------



## jolyonralph (May 29, 2018)

Normally when this kind of thing happens I press the filter into the palm of my hand so that the maximum surface area is in contact with my skin and then turn the other part, which usually releases it.

Then just clean the filter. Better still clean your hands first too


----------



## Mikehit (May 29, 2018)

If the recess on the WA adapter is too deep to allow you to use a rubber mat, then put a sheet of non-slip rubber on the end of a jar (or similar) with suitable diameter to fit within the WA adapter and sit the filter edge flat on that.

Sometimes, after much graunching, twisting and swearing I come to it, apply light pressure and it moves. Lord knows why.


----------



## Valvebounce (May 30, 2018)

Hi bitm2007. 
Differential expansion. 
Apply warmth to the part with the external thread and cold to the internal threaded piece, this may be as simple as hand heat and pressing the cold part on a jar from the fridge to act as a heat sink to keep the cold bit cold or you may have to resort to freezing the whole lot then using a cloth wet with very hot water to quickly raise the temperature of the part that needs to be warm, speed is the key here as you don’t want to raise the temperature of both bits, just the externally threaded component, differential expansion should be enough to loosen the grip so that you can undo it without damage. 

Cheers, Graham.


----------



## bitm2007 (May 30, 2018)

Thanks for your helps guy's. I've tried many of the suggestions on here before eventually getting them apart using heavy duty oil filter wrenches straps designed for automobiles. I thought they were going to be too big but I was able to attached the edge of the straps most of the way around the filters circumference then got them apart with brute force after several failed attempts (slipping off the filters edge). Filter and adapter ring appear to be undamaged.


----------



## bitm2007 (May 30, 2018)

A link to the product I used is below

https://www.drapertools.com/category-products/8437/Oil-Filter-Wrenches


----------



## Valvebounce (May 30, 2018)

Wow, that looks brutal to use on a filter!
Glad you succeeded. 

Cheers, Graham. 



bitm2007 said:


> A link to the product I used is below
> 
> https://www.drapertools.com/category-products/8437/Oil-Filter-Wrenches


----------



## ahsanford (May 30, 2018)

bitm2007 said:


> then got them apart with brute force after several failed attempts (slipping off the filters edge). Filter and adapter ring appear to be undamaged.



Glad to hear.

Now that no glass has been harmed, I turn to everyone here: *how many folks but something between the naked lens front element and the Lee (or other system) holder* like this?

My setup is Lee by the book: Naked lens --> WA 77 ring --> 2-slot holder --> 105 CPL ring attached in front. 

The thought of putting a filter between the lens and the WA ring/holder setup will just create a host of problems, IMHO. A CPL in there will be a major pain to turn without turning your holder as well. An ND in there will be a pain if you want to take the same shot without the long exposure (or if you need to nail everything in LiveView before you add the 10-stop) as you'll have to pull off the holder, unthread the holder ring to then have to unthread the ND. And any filter at all will add height to the stack (i.e. pushes the holder further from the front element), which exacerbate how quickly things vignette with WA lenses. And then there's the whole thing about the OP's 'can't get it off the WA ring' problem.

So how many people do this, and if you don't mind my asking: why? 

It's not wrong per se -- do what you have to do to get the shot -- but other than not wanting to buy holder-specific NDs or CPLs to save a buck, why would you choose this over using the holder as it was designed to be used?

- A


----------



## bitm2007 (May 30, 2018)

Valvebounce said:


> Wow, that looks brutal to use on a filter!
> Glad you succeeded.
> 
> Cheers, Graham.
> ...



It was a last resort, after everything else I tried failed. The filter was useless to me the way to was, so the thinking was that even if it broke I'd still get the use of the adapter ring back !


----------



## bitm2007 (May 30, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> bitm2007 said:
> 
> 
> > then got them apart with brute force after several failed attempts (slipping off the filters edge). Filter and adapter ring appear to be undamaged.
> ...



I agreed with all the points you have made, but as a pro seascape photographer I still view a protection filter on the front of my lenses as an essential piece of kit. I encounter sea spray regularly on my shoots, it's much easier and safer to clean it off a filter than the front element of my expensive L lenses. One grain of sand between your cleaning cloth and the glass surface you are cleaning can ruin the front element of a lens or a protection filter. I know which I'd prefer to replace. You can also hold a filter up towards the light to check it's smear free, I'm never 100% confident that my cleaning has been 100% successful when cleaning the front element of a lens.

I also regularly wear out the front thread of my protection filters due to the use of a Lee adapter rings with almost every shot I take. Again it's much cheaper to replace a worn out filter than a worn out shrew thread on the front of my lens.

The Breakthrough 10 stop filter is the only other shrew in filter I own, as previously mentioned that was a mistake. All my other filters are for the Lee filter system, I reduce the chances of vignetting by carrying two holders (one with one filter slot and the other with two), using the slimest protection filters available and a slim line Lee Landscape Polarizing filter.

For my type of photography i'm convinced that the advantages of using a protection filter out weights the disadvantages. Despite the couple of days lost with the stuck filters this week, i'd never experienced anything near this bad in my previous 19 years of a photographer.


----------



## jprusa (May 30, 2018)

bitm2007 said:


> Valvebounce said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, that looks brutal to use on a filter!
> ...


This is just another reason I went to the lee type filter holder , just seems a lot faster and a lot less screwing and unscrewing.


----------



## ahsanford (May 30, 2018)

bitm2007 said:


> I agreed with all the points you have made, but as a pro seascape photographer...



*Awesome* reply. Really helpful, thank you.

Sea spray, blowing sand, etc. is something I expected someone to say and it's absolutely fair. The default Lee method leaves a 'naked' front element, albeit a fair amount of the time it is in use you have the holder and slot-ins blocking a big frontal splash. But spray/sand don't really care about angle of attack, they just kind of get into things.

But _wearing out the threads from constant Lee holder use_ is a tremendous piece of experience shared -- I've never heard that before! Yes, using a screw-in filter would absolutely be wise in that case.

I learn something new every day. Thank you!

- A


----------



## jprusa (May 30, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> bitm2007 said:
> 
> 
> > I agreed with all the points you have made, but as a pro seascape photographer...
> ...


Living at the Beach and using both systems, the Lee IMHO is the best way for me, since I have never had a adaptor ring stick to my UV filter.


----------



## Hector1970 (May 30, 2018)

Glad you got it apart.
I’ve much experience in this area and all the suggestions are valid depending on the stuckness.
For future readers sometimes even all this doesn’t work.
For a stuck UV filter Last resort is to score the glass of the filter and tap with a hammer to break the glass.
This is scary.
Remove all the glass once broken.
(This is valid for a completely stuck lee adapter - which can happen if wind blows over your tripod)
Get a fret saw and cut the filter in three places (don’t cut into your lens)
Ideally do this with the lens facing down (which is not easy)
Alternatively cover the lens glass with something.
Bend the filter inwards (use a Pliers, by in I mean across parallel to the lens)and it comes out of the joint.
It’s a last resort and not comfortable on an expensive lens.
Personally I stopped using UV filters as I was in the habit of screwing the Lee adapter into it (which is not advised).
I’m not convinced a UV filter gives much protection and is more trouble than it’s worth.
Image quality has to be better without the filter even it’s marginal.


----------



## ahsanford (May 30, 2018)

jprusa said:


> Living at the Beach and using both systems, the Lee IMHO is the best way for me, since I have never had a adaptor ring stick to my UV filter.



Thx. So you UV at the base of the stack. How early does that vignette with a two slot setup for you? 24mm? 20mm? (Also, do you use the 105 CPL ring or do you go another route for that?) Just curious. 

I've built my setup to get the widest output I can out of my 16-35 f/4L IS, but putting UV in the mix (with two slots) would probably turn that lens into a 20-35 without the CPL and a 24-35 with the CPL in place.

- A


----------



## Pookie (May 30, 2018)

Often, issues like this can be resolved with little effort by placing the filters affected in the freezer. Cold will cause the metal to unseize. If it is attached to a camera, judicious use of an ice cube around the filter will often be enough.


----------



## bitm2007 (May 30, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> jprusa said:
> 
> 
> > Living at the Beach and using both systems, the Lee IMHO is the best way for me, since I have never had a adaptor ring stick to my UV filter.
> ...



For the majority of my seascapes I use a Canon 5D mk IV and Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, with a 3mm thick protection filter and Lee 77mm wide angle adapter ring attached to the front of the lens. With this setup the filter holder does not come into the frame when using either my one or two slot holders, which both have Lee Polorasing rings permanently attached to them. However the corners of the framed are obscured with both holder set-ups when the standard Lee 105mm Polarising filter is attached (from around 20mm down with the two slot holder and 18mm with the one slot), using the one slot holder with the newer (and much slimmer) Lee Landscape Polarising filter solves this however, and vignetting is minimal with the two slot holder even at 16mm with that setup.


----------



## bitm2007 (May 30, 2018)

Pookie said:


> Often, issues like this can be resolved with little effort by placing the filters affected in the freezer. Cold will cause the metal to unseize. If it is attached to a camera, judicious use of an ice cube around the filter will often be enough.



I tried the fridge, freezer and hot water but they didn't help on this occasional. Thankfully I'm now sorted after using oil filter wrenches.


----------



## jprusa (May 30, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> jprusa said:
> 
> 
> > Living at the Beach and using both systems, the Lee IMHO is the best way for me, since I have never had a adaptor ring stick to my UV filter.
> ...


I never stack filters and it is a CPL sometimes but the most used is the reversed GND filter , a slight vignette at 20 but I just purchased a new holder a Nisi and have not had a chance to test yet . Lee was getting loose and starting to annoy me.


----------



## bitm2007 (May 30, 2018)

> I've built my setup to get the widest output I can out of my 16-35 f/4L IS, but putting UV in the mix (with two slots) would probably turn that lens into a 20-35 without the CPL and a 24-35 with the CPL in place.




A protection filter and a slot on a Lee filter holder are approximately the same depth, so adding a protection filter into your set up effectively costs you a filter slot when it comes to vignetting (although you can gain slightly in that regard when using altra thin filters)


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 17, 2018)

Filters can be a real pain when they get stuck. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1223685-REG/japan_hobby_tool_jht9520_vacuum_pad_for_camera.html

But CPL filters? Nightmare.


----------



## scottkinfw (Jun 17, 2018)

bitm2007 said:


> I've got a Lee 77mm wide angle adapter ring stuck to my 77mm Breakthrough Photography x4 10 stop filter. I can't get them apart using elastic bands, filter wrenches, rubber mats, string etc because the recess of the wide angle adaptor is deeper than the depth of the filter. Any idea's ?



Try putting it in the freezer for a while?

Scott


----------

