# Sony a9 Mirrorless Camera Now Available for Preorder



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 21, 2017)

```
<p>You can now preorder the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/off-brand-sony-announces-the-a9/">brand new Sony a9</a> mirrorless camera. Shipping is expected to happen closer to the end of May.</p>
<p>Lots of Canon shooters tend to use Sony’s full frame mirrorless cameras as part of their kit and that will probably continue with the a9.</p>
<p><strong><a href="https://bhpho.to/2pLdIJe">Preorder the Sony a9 Mirrorless Camera at B&H Photo</a></strong></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


----------



## sanj (Apr 21, 2017)

Not ordering


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 21, 2017)

sanj said:


> Not ordering



Placed my pre-order 7AM this morning ;D


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 21, 2017)

whatta said:


> Wow, Canon Rumors is hoping to get money from Sony a9 preorders? Even Canon Rumors agree that Canon bodies are far from being exciting? Btw I was Canon shooter for almost 10 years, was hoping for a good rebel/mirrorless since the 550d but it never arrived. Last year I gave up and switched to Fuji (xt2).
> 
> Sorry for trolling, it is not meant to be. I have been here for long time and also learned a lot from you guys..



Crossing my fingers A9 operating is as fast as xt2. I love how fast the xt2 is, off to ready to shoot is instant. Xt2 reacts extremely fast during setting exposure. Current a7 is a bit slower.


----------



## Chaitanya (Apr 21, 2017)

Not for me, certainly would be renting it for a day just to check how well AF performs against Canon 7D mk 2 or 1Dx Mk II.


----------



## Berowne (Apr 21, 2017)

Price in Germany will be 5300€.


----------



## Hflm (Apr 21, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> whatta said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, Canon Rumors is hoping to get money from Sony a9 preorders? Even Canon Rumors agree that Canon bodies are far from being exciting? Btw I was Canon shooter for almost 10 years, was hoping for a good rebel/mirrorless since the 550d but it never arrived. Last year I gave up and switched to Fuji (xt2).
> ...


The A7rii is taking quite a bit longer, often too long. In critical situations I need to make sure it isn't off or fell into sleep mode. This would be a reason to try the A9. But 5300 Euros is too much for features I don't really need, just want. Th 5divs perform flawlessly and the A7rii does the rest with the nice 1.4 primes.


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 21, 2017)

Hflm said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > whatta said:
> ...



Agree, also Fuji has best color and skin tone. Wish I can say that for Sony ;D


----------



## Vishal (Apr 21, 2017)

I wonder what the A9's RAW file size would be ???


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 21, 2017)

Vishal said:


> I wonder what the A9's RAW file size would be ???



Early reviews mentioned it has a7s dynamic range to it, which I think is a good thing. It's back- illuminated sensor @ 24MP, my take on high ISO is will be decent.

My current a7r II is also back - illuminated sensor. It has 42MP and I'm very comfortable @ ISO6400 in low light.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 22, 2017)

JP4DESIGNZ said:


> I don't see myself completely switching brands at the moment however, I'd love to add a possible A7RIII or A9R as a second body IF there is a Metabones update that allows Sony bodies to focus Canon lenses as fast as my 5D4 and 6D.



The Sony A7 cameras focus wide angle lenses which are supported very quickly. Lenses with heavier elements suffer.


----------



## sanj (Apr 22, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Not ordering
> ...




nice! Specs are great. Fine print is not.


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 22, 2017)

sanj said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > sanj said:
> ...



Saw fine print. No cons for my shooting style, especially I'm shooting with native lenses


----------



## Jopa (Apr 22, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Lots of Canon shooters tend to use Sony’s full frame mirrorless cameras as part of their kit and that will probably continue with the a9.



I'll pass this time. I feel somewhat relieving after selling my a7r2 and all E-mount lenses. Since the adapted glass' fps is limited to 10, I feel the ol' good 1dx2 is still a better choice, especially with flash and the 200/2, 300/2.8 and 600/4. Maybe an A9-II in 6 months? We shall see...


----------



## xps (Apr 22, 2017)

This body will be tested very extensively, as it is from sony. DPreview, Mr. Northrup and other testing sites will post a lot videos ans tests to bring this body up. 
And we will see, how this body performs in the wild. It is an worth competitor to the other brands in specs. Ergonomically maybe Sony has still to learn (my opinion), but a lot of their customers praise the smallness of the body.
Mounted on an tripod, handling an 600mm lens works, maybe holding the combo on the cam body will work just once.

Mr. Canonbrumors is criticized for his advertisement of the body. He has to earn money, so why should he not be allowed to place this link? Maybe there is some reason he does it, too. Maybe he shows some Canon managers: "look at this competitor and implement some of these goodies into your next successor"


----------



## xps (Apr 22, 2017)

My question is, how warm will the body get, if you use burst mode frequently and do HD/4k video? My sold 7RII has some severe problems by getting hot in video mode. This caused some moisture damage in winter.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Apr 22, 2017)

The A9 is £ 4,449 in rip-off Britain, the new Sony 100-400mm is £ 2,449 which is £ 500 more than the excellent Canon EF 100-400 f4.5 - 5.6L IS USM II.
I will pass for two reasons a. Price and b. I like to keep my systems pure if I can.


----------



## Berowne (Apr 22, 2017)

I also wonder, how hot the camera will become, reminds me to the "Galaxy-Disaster". So we should wait for real-world testing. And as long as Sony is not able to deliver tidy lenses, I do not see any need to change the System. 

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/02/completing-the-teardown-of-the-sony-fe-70-200-f2-8-gm-oss-part-ii/


----------



## jedy (Apr 22, 2017)

Even if this camera isn't quite the high end DSLR replacement it's claiming to be, it's still extremely impressive and shows just how mirrorless is improving all the time, especially from Sony. You'd think this should be a wake up call for Canon and Nikon (this camera certainly has Nikonrumors worried). What Sony need now are the pro 'sports' lenses. They could also do with some half decent less expensive lenses like Canons non-L range as currently the Sony lenses on offer are very expensive.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 22, 2017)

jedy said:


> Even if this camera isn't quite the high end DSLR replacement it's claiming to be, it's still extremely impressive and shows just how mirrorless is improving all the time, especially from Sony. You'd think this should be a wake up call for Canon and Nikon (this camera certainly has Nikonrumors worried). What Sony need now are the pro 'sports' lenses. They could also do with some half decent less expensive lenses like Canons non-L range as currently the Sony lenses on offer are very expensive.



Don't forget how mature a product an SLR is, the form factor has a well established user base and it has been refined over many years to become what it is in response to customer requirements.

Mirrorless is a different thing doing a similar function, maybe the mirrorless form factor is better suited to changing functional requirements some users put on their cameras, maybe in time as there is a generational change the SLR market will become too small to be viable. But at this point the numbers don't show that, especially in the higher end niche where even Sony's latest efforts fall way short of the kind of thing those SLR owners take for granted and have done for many years, things like lens selections will take Sony years to overcome even if they want and can afford to.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 22, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> things like lens selections will take Sony years to overcome even if they want and can afford to.



they'd be smart to leverage their stake in Tamron to fill out the line.


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 23, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > things like lens selections will take Sony years to overcome even if they want and can afford to.
> ...



16-35 f2.8 GM is right around the corner.

1. 2470GM
2. 70200GM
3. 35f1.4
4. 50f1.4
5. 85f1.4
6. Batis 18, 25, 85
7. 90macro

8. Latest 100-400GM

Those lenses are very much cover majority of event average Joe can handle. I'm sure some large primes 135f1.8, 200f2. 300, 400f2.8 would be nice. But then again, not most of us would be able to purchase and use daily 

I'm no expert with flash stuff, I heard Sony really bad in this area. They might need to improve flash department. Their latest GM lenses are just excellent.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 23, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



We aren't talking about the 'enthusiast' market, we are talking about people who shoot for a living, who sell their images and use those big lenses daily as a major part of their income. How many actual sports shooters are going to be happy with that choice of lenses? Even high school sports shooters rely on 400 f2.8's, those thousands of people we never really hear from, they are the bulk of the 1DX MkII/D5 market. But even if you talk about the parent wannabe's, they primarily get what the 'pro' uses because that's what the 'pro' uses!

As a minimum Sony need a 400 f2.8 a 600 f4 and a 200-400 f4 to even dream of making serious inroads into the actual pro user 1DX MkII and D5 market. Even then the lens prices are going to kill them, they don't have a secondhand market so the people starting out, other than the very well heeled, don't have that as an option. Almost all the sports shooters I know started with 7D's and 300 f2.8's or sigma 120-300 2.8's and went to secondhand 1DX's or 1D MkIV's and secondhand 400 f2.8's. When they made some money they got new1DX MkII's and or 400 f2.8's with IS.


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 23, 2017)

privatebydesign said:
 

> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



Hope to see those lenses soon @ sky high prices Scott. For average Joe, my wish would be 135f1.8 and or 200f2 for Sony.

I have been avoid looking at Viggo's photos lately


----------



## Jopa (Apr 23, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> Hope to see those lenses soon @ sky high prices Scott. For average Joe, my wish would be 135f1.8 and or 200f2 for Sony.
> I have been avoid looking at Viggo's photos lately



The Sigma 135 1.8 is a superb lens, you can mount it via the MC-11 adapter and it's almost "native". The 200/2 works pretty bad via the Metabones mk4 though (and even worse via the MC-11).


----------



## Vishal (Apr 23, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> Vishal said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder what the A9's RAW file size would be ???
> ...



Sounds good. I was wondering about the file sizes. Around 30-40mb per RAW image¿


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 23, 2017)

Vishal said:


> Sounds good. I was wondering about the file sizes. Around 30-40mb per RAW image¿



maybe uncompressed. The A7R2 files with lossy compression are around 41MB with double the pixel count.



privatebydesign said:


> We aren't talking about the 'enthusiast' market, we are talking about people who shoot for a living, who sell their images and use those big lenses daily as a major part of their income. How many actual sports shooters are going to be happy with that choice of lenses? Even high school sports shooters rely on 400 f2.8's, those thousands of people we never really hear from, they are the bulk of the 1DX MkII/D5 market. But even if you talk about the parent wannabe's, they primarily get what the 'pro' uses because that's what the 'pro' uses!
> 
> As a minimum Sony need a 400 f2.8 a 600 f4 and a 200-400 f4 to even dream of making serious inroads into the actual pro user 1DX MkII and D5 market. Even then the lens prices are going to kill them, they don't have a secondhand market so the people starting out, other than the very well heeled, don't have that as an option. Almost all the sports shooters I know started with 7D's and 300 f2.8's or sigma 120-300 2.8's and went to secondhand 1DX's or 1D MkIV's and secondhand 400 f2.8's. When they made some money they got new1DX MkII's and or 400 f2.8's with IS.



Exactly; those lenses. Since Sony owns ~10% of Tamron, it seems like they could partner up. Sony develops the electronics and AF algorithms + software, Tamron develops the optics and manufactures the product.


----------



## infared (Apr 24, 2017)

Content with my 5D III & IV....no need. :-X


----------



## jeffa4444 (Apr 24, 2017)

The Sony GM lenses are very good and stand shoulder to shoulder with Canon L glass. However they are expensive more so that Canon which are expensive enough for most wallets.


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 24, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> The Sony GM lenses are very good and stand shoulder to shoulder with Canon L glass. However they are expensive more so that Canon which are expensive enough for most wallets.



Until they have larger base customers, Sony users will continue to pay higher prices for the lenses.


----------



## Lenscracker (Apr 24, 2017)

The A9 seems to have obsoleted everything in the Canon DSLR lineup. I think Canon better get busy or they could lose everything to this technology. BTW, I believe you CAN use Canon lenses on Sony cameras. I see lots of converters for that purpose.


----------



## jmoya (Apr 24, 2017)

you have no idea how angry I am with canon and their slow reactions to respond to other manufacturers in their tech dept. I've been a canon user since the very first rebel digital dslr. When will they get with the times?
I'm ready to jump ship if their canon 6d II is a disappointment like their 5d mark VI is.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 24, 2017)

jmoya said:


> you have no idea how angry I am with canon and their slow reactions to respond to other manufacturers in their tech dept. I've been a canon user since the very first rebel digital dslr. When will they get with the times?
> I'm ready to jump ship if their canon 6d II is a disappointment like their 5d mark VI is.



So jump, nobody goves a damn. Besides, get what is right for you, you owe that to yourself and no corporation owes you anything.

Canon do what they do at the pace they do it and that results in the business they want, others go about it a different way and if that way suits you better you'd be a fool not to embrace it.

As for the 5D MkIV, I'd guess you don't own one, I don't know a single owner that is disappointed in its actual performance.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 24, 2017)

Lenscracker said:


> The A9 seems to have obsoleted everything in the Canon DSLR lineup. I think Canon better get busy or they could lose everything to this technology. BTW, I believe you CAN use Canon lenses on Sony cameras. I see lots of converters for that purpose.



For the time being, you lose at least half the framerate by adapting. If you put on a sony a-mount lens with their native adapter, you can still use the electronic shutter, but it's at 10FPS. If you put on an off-brand lens (e.g. Canon), you lose electronic shutter and are limited to 5FPS.


----------



## jmoya (Apr 24, 2017)

The 5d VI is only minimally better than the 5d3. No need to upgrade for little difference and the 4k is useless as the file sizes are just unmanageable.


----------



## scrup (Apr 24, 2017)

Canon so quiet, the rumors site has to publish Sony stuff. The A9 has nice tech on paper, but its just a niche product in a nicher category. 
Probably will get more buyers than the a99ii due to compatibility of EF lens via adapter.


----------



## scrup (Apr 24, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> Lenscracker said:
> 
> 
> > The A9 seems to have obsoleted everything in the Canon DSLR lineup. I think Canon better get busy or they could lose everything to this technology. BTW, I believe you CAN use Canon lenses on Sony cameras. I see lots of converters for that purpose.
> ...



When sales don't take off, watch for the firmware update that unlocks the adapted lens features.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 24, 2017)

scrup said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Lenscracker said:
> ...



Perhaps, unless it's due to wonky or just plain unreliable adapted autofocus, and sony not wanting to see blog posts about their uberMILC missing 20 frames per second.


----------



## PeterP (Apr 24, 2017)

I may be daft but why are Sony toys being shilled in a Canon forum.
Come here for Canon occasionally right rumours, zero interest in other brands which have their own dedicated forums.


----------



## brad-man (Apr 25, 2017)

PeterP said:


> I may be daft but why are Sony toys being shilled in a Canon forum.
> Come here for Canon occasionally right rumours, zero interest in other brands which have their own dedicated forums.




Then why are you reading this thread?

But seriously Pete, there are a great many folks here who eagerly await a FF MILC from Canon, and consequently suck up all the newest info on competent brands selling worthwhile mirrorless devices until Canon is ready to enter the fray. And you are correct. You may be daft...


----------



## dash2k8 (Apr 25, 2017)

jmoya said:


> The 5d VI is only minimally better than the 5d3. No need to upgrade for little difference and the 4k is useless as the file sizes are just unmanageable.



There's just so many things wrong with this comment. Minimally better? I know many wedding photographers who upgraded from their 5D3 because it has much better focus in low light, much better noise control, etc etc etc. If you've never owned one or used one extensively, you have no right to comment on it.

"I don't need a Ferrari, it just goes faster than my Camry, big deal." <-- does that sound right to you?


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 25, 2017)

PeterP said:


> I may be daft but why are Sony toys being shilled in a Canon forum.
> Come here for Canon occasionally right rumours, zero interest in other brands which have their own dedicated forums.



Because if you own $25k+ of EF glass, buying another new body to use with that glass isn't that uncommon -- and Sony might be the next body you buy.

- A


----------



## leGreve (Apr 25, 2017)

I used to own quite a lot of Canon gear... so many of you burst out "oh why is there sony announcements here!!11?"

seriously, it's almost as bad reading dogmatised canon fanbois as the battle that once was between pc owners and Apple owners.

I can totally understand why so many of you safeguard canons interests, because you can't contain how hard it would be to sell off all your gear and rebrand because Canon dropped the ball.

But it all comes down to who is offering most for the money, and Canon simply isn't doing that. Canon sucks because idiotic japanese business men try to cover all bases and become affraid of canabalizing their own cameras.
Why the hell you make so many version in the first place?!
Sony is no where near offering as many models to the same segment as Canon is, which means they can offer products that provide much more of what todays modern shooter is requiring. Who gives a ****** about wedding photographers?
I wouldn't hire one if I ever got married... just ask guests to go crazy with their smart phones and you'll have all the photos you need afterwards... for free.

Canon dslr aren't very useful for commercial work, they don't offer what is needed for the majority of shoots.
I either go Epic or FS for 98% of my work. That is having used Canons for 75% of my work up until recently.
They just don't own the game anymore.... but consumers are unable to see that.

Once we are done talking Sony, then we can bring up Panasonic who are equally better than Canon.

Seriously, how can you not see that?

Sure... use Canon for weddings and press, for anything else, I'd look at anything before Canon.


----------



## Uneternal (Apr 25, 2017)

I hope this, as well as the upcoming A7 Mark III will be a wake-up call for Canon.
Since 2013 (release of the A7) they did nothing but rest on their laurels, providing absolutely zero competition in the mirrorless full-frame market, which got Sony on place 2 in the overall full frame camera market.

If there's nothing coming out this year, while Sony probably releases 3 more full-frame models, I will have a hard time staying with Canon.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 25, 2017)

xps said:


> Mr. Canonbrumors is criticized for his advertisement of the body. He has to earn money, so why should he not be allowed to place this link? Maybe there is some reason he does it, too. Maybe he shows some Canon managers: "look at this competitor and implement some of these goodies into your next successor"



Agree that the owner of this website can post whatever he or she wants to post.

However, Canon will likely buy several of these camera's to compare and contrast with Canon products. Canon doesn't need this website to find out what competitors are doing. Canon is already on the job.

This website posts non-Canon items all the time. Nothing new.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 25, 2017)

Lenscracker said:


> The A9 seems to have obsoleted everything in the Canon DSLR lineup. I think Canon better get busy or they could lose everything to this technology. BTW, I believe you CAN use Canon lenses on Sony cameras. I see lots of converters for that purpose.



Obsoleted: You may not know what obsolete means.

The fact that Sony users turn to Canon lenses and that there is such a market for adapters probably bodes well for Canon and means Sony lenses have been "obsoleted". Those adapters aren't inexpensive either. If I were a Sony user that ran Canon lenses, I would "obsoleted" my Sony body and switch to Canon.

Yes, Canon is *******. The A9 is going to kill the beast. :

"Sony only promises 10 frame per second shooting when adapting its own A-mount lenses, and we're told that both subject tracking (Lock-on AF) and Eye-AF will be unavailable when using non-native mount lenses (this has always been the case even with previous a7 bodies)."
https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/1937765842/sony-a9-why-being-better-might-not-be-enough

I wish the guys on this board (not you) who always say they have had it with Canon and are going to switch to Sony, would just do it.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 25, 2017)

jmoya said:


> you have no idea how angry I am with canon and their slow reactions to respond to other manufacturers in their tech dept. I've been a canon user since the very first rebel digital dslr. When will they get with the times?
> I'm ready to jump ship if their canon 6d II is a disappointment like their 5d mark VI is.



JUMP! :

Guys like you are happy masochists. You scream it hurts, but it hurts so good.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 25, 2017)

dash2k8 said:


> jmoya said:
> 
> 
> > The 5d VI is only minimally better than the 5d3. No need to upgrade for little difference and the 4k is useless as the file sizes are just unmanageable.
> ...



He doesn't own the 5D Mark III or the Mark IV, but he knows all about them. He's waiting for a 6D II.


----------



## glness (Apr 25, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Lots of Canon shooters tend to use Sony’s full frame mirrorless cameras as part of their kit and that will probably continue with the a9



This seems like a really strange comment on Canon Rumors. I can only assume it is here purely for economic gain. I know "lots" of Canon photographers and I know only one that has a Sony full frame mirrorless camera in "their kit." Is this based on some survey or other factual information you have, because I think your comment is patently false as it is stated.


----------



## jmoya (Apr 25, 2017)

I totally agree with you. I'm a canon user and have as one said in a earlier post I have "25k" worth of EF glass. But canon bodies performance have been showing their age. They need to get with the 4k and 120fps in recording video capabilities and low light recovery capabilities. Canon wants to stay competitive right?


----------



## jmoya (Apr 25, 2017)

Really? That's not a fair comparison. It's not even in the same category. You obviously don't know how to make a fair distinction. You need to compare apples to apple and oranges to oranges. You put a family sedan up against a super car. The 5d3 is not the family sedan and the 5d4 is not a Ferrari. It's basically the new model of camry. The same with only minimal upgrades. My point is...So many other companies are killing canon with the low light, 4k, shutter fps, flip screens, smaller bodies, more focus points, more pixles... that's a lot of betters don't you think.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 25, 2017)

glness said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of Canon shooters tend to use Sony’s full frame mirrorless cameras as part of their kit and that will probably continue with the a9
> ...



It's no more 'patently false' than someone who denies that it is happening based on the experience of only personally knowing one person who uses Sony like this. :

But let's unpack the CR admin's _outrageous_ claim:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Sony rigs accept Canon lenses due to flange distance and a number of available adaptors that allow AF use. These metabones adaptors are hardly fringe / illicit uses of their cameras -- they won't brick your hardware.


[*]Photographers often own/carry more than one body -- sometimes for specialized applications, sometimes to have a second lens at the ready, and sometimes to address impromptu video needs.


[*]Sony has some nice designs/features (even with EF lenses) that Canon does not: some wonderful sensors, a small FF mirrorless design, IBIS, the EVF allows fairly convenient manual focus lens use, etc.


[*]Photographers are clever, resourceful souls who love to tinker to suit their needs.


[*]A number of videographers who may have come up through the 5D2 revolution rave about the A7S II, and their EF glass will work on that rig.
[/list]

So I happen to agree with the admin. It stands to reason that some percentage of this forum's users would avail themselves of a Sony body for myriad reasons. They still are 'Canon users' in the broad/primary sense, but the Sony scratches some itches the 1D, 5D, 6D, 7D line cannot. "Lots" vs. "some percentage" can be argued, but all circumstantial evidence would imply that primarily Canon shooting photographers are absolutely dabbling with the A7/A9 platform to some extent.

- A


----------



## PeterP (Apr 25, 2017)

I did try a Sony, worst waste of money I made in a while. 
Apart from horrendous battery life I disliked the evf and hated the colours it produced. 
Now just being used as a paperweight. 



ahsanford said:


> PeterP said:
> 
> 
> > I may be daft but why are Sony toys being shilled in a Canon forum.
> ...


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 25, 2017)

PeterP said:


> I did try a Sony, worst waste of money I made in a while.
> Apart from horrendous battery life I disliked the evf and hated the colours it produced.
> Now just being used as a paperweight.



You may be mistaking "Canon shooters tend to use Sony’s full frame mirrorless cameras as part of their kit" as _a ringing endorsement that everything about the Sony is best in class._ It clearly is not.

But some folks don't mind fighting through the controls, battery life, colors, etc. as it...


...buys them a couple stops of DR over their 5D3 for landscapes.
...allows them to shoot (say) a Nikkor 14-24 f/2.8 or 105mm f/1.4 without also having to buy a Nikon body.
...allows them to shoot stabilized stills/video with vintage old lenses from their youth.
...allows them to shoot manual focus lenses that would otherwise be hard to use on their Canon body with a non-interchangeable focusing screen.

Your priorities aren't everyone else's. Some folks don't see the Sony as better so much providing a specific functionality that Canon does not provide today.

- A


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 26, 2017)

Looks like he/she has located the Sony missing truck ... ;D


----------



## Jopa (Apr 26, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> Looks like he/she has located the Sony missing truck ... ;D



Funny  I'm wondering if they can really push those 2 bodies for $5.5k. If yes, then maybe Sony underestimated the new camera value?


----------



## Cthulhu (Apr 26, 2017)

Uneternal said:


> I hope this, as well as the upcoming A7 Mark III will be a wake-up call for Canon.
> Since 2013 (release of the A7) they did nothing but rest on their laurels, providing absolutely zero competition in the mirrorless full-frame market, which got Sony on place 2 in the overall full frame camera market.
> 
> If there's nothing coming out this year, while Sony probably releases 3 more full-frame models, I will have a hard time staying with Canon.



Interesting, so you see the fact that people are buying more Sony full frame cameras than Nikon as Canon's fault?


----------



## Orangutan (Apr 26, 2017)

Uneternal said:


> I hope this, as well as the upcoming A7 Mark III will be a wake-up call for Canon.


Wake up from year after year of nightmarishly consistent profits? I don't think so.

I hope Sony gives Canon some serious competition, but so far they've disappointed.


----------



## ricky_005 (Apr 26, 2017)

The main problem I have with Sony bodies is, you have to have tiny hands like Donald Trump.

Sony bodies need to be larger for us normal Americans.


----------



## deleteme (Apr 26, 2017)

I think what we are seeing vis a vis Canon vs. Sony is a huge effort by a newcomer to steal market share from an established player.

In any mature market, the newcomer has the advantage that every sale comes out of the hide of the established players. IOW every A6xxx or A7x means one less sale of a comparable camera for Nikon or Canon.
What Sony's challenge becomes is presenting a camera that seems dramatically better to entice switchers to absorb the costs of switching or to be a credible alternative to the new photographer getting their first serious camera.
Canon and Nikon's job is to not screw it up.

New photographers are a cautious bunch and many will opt for the Canikon camp for safety's sake. To paraphrase the old saw "Nobody ever got fired for choosing a Canon". Conversely, Sony does have an advantage of a good CE reputation which, these days, means something in the camera world.

IMO the Sony is a very good effort at a serious pro machine. I am sure they have learned enormous lessons since the first A7. This doesn't leave the Canikon world for dead though.
They DO have to show that they are also capable of introducing breathtaking advances to maintain the confidence of their base.
I currently use 5Dmk3s. They do superb work for me in my business. I do covet the mkIV but the current bodies are doing the job so the business argument is not there.
What WOULD be useful for me in some of my event and PJ work would be an M5 type camera with a blend of Sony sensors and EVF and Canon polish.
Oh yeah, a few compact zooms of excellent quality in the M mount.


----------



## ricky_005 (Apr 26, 2017)

Normalnorm said:


> I think what we are seeing vis a vis Canon vs. Sony is a huge effort by a newcomer to steal market share from an established player.
> 
> In any mature market, the newcomer has the advantage that every sale comes out of the hide of the established players. IOW every A6xxx or A7x means one less sale of a comparable camera for Nikon or Canon.
> What Sony's challenge becomes is presenting a camera that seems dramatically better to entice switchers to absorb the costs of switching or to be a credible alternative to the new photographer getting their first serious camera.
> ...



Sony is living proof and evidence that Canon has been, and still giving there loyal followers the shaft for many years now! Soon Sony will be releasing the third gen A7's it should put another nail or two in Canons coffin.

Its time for photographers that don't need extreme long telephoto lenses to abandon Canon! If Canon lost enough sales to Sony, Canon will deliver the goods on there next generation ....if not, they will continue ramming it deeper down your throats.


----------



## Orangutan (Apr 26, 2017)

ricky_005 said:


> Normalnorm said:
> 
> 
> > I think what we are seeing vis a vis Canon vs. Sony is a huge effort by a newcomer to steal market share from an established player.
> ...



This (falsely) presumes that Canon "loyal followers" don't know how to assess their own needs, nor how to evaluate equipment to meet those needs. There have been several posters who have explicitly written that they had tried, even owned, multiple Sony products, but had dumped them because they didn't meet the need.

I seriously hope the new Sony offerings become legitimate challengers to Canon -- vigorous competition is good for us customers. But their previous efforts are not encouraging.


----------



## Dylan777 (Apr 26, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like he/she has located the Sony missing truck ... ;D
> ...



I'm not sure who would pay $5K on a non-release product from unauthorized dealer(seller). But then again, it's crazzzy world we live in


----------



## gregory4000 (Apr 26, 2017)

ricky_005 said:


> The main problem I have with Sony bodies is, you have to have tiny hands like Donald Trump.
> 
> Sony bodies need to be larger for us normal Americans.



Really! Sometimes it takes time to get use to a camera ergonomics, like a cell phone. Their small but we all accept and work within its small, slim design. Sony cameras are small for one major reason that Canon and Nikon are missing. 

Those of us who are older like the larger camera size. However, the 20 something group....these future buyers will feel at home with a small camera body as opposed to a large 5d body.The new generation of photographers are accustomed to small devices. Don't you think?
I think Sony hit a home run with the A9.
Wedding and small event photographers will be hoping Canon releases something similar. 
Just my thoughts, Most of the time i'm wrong.


----------



## tcmatthews (Apr 28, 2017)

gregory4000 said:


> ricky_005 said:
> 
> 
> > The main problem I have with Sony bodies is, you have to have tiny hands like Donald Trump.
> ...



I have not a chance to checkout the A 9 but I can add a little to the argument. For me the Canon 5D bodies are hideously large. I can not even imaging how bad the ergonomics are on a 1D body. Note as much as ergonomics gets thrown around you need to keep in mind they are a function of your own hand size. Even if I was in the market for a camera with their capabilities I would likely never buy a 1D style body unless it was my only option. 

I am not going to say the Ergonomics of my A7 II are perfect. There is limited height on the grip so my ring ringer has a tendency to fall of the bottom of the grip. If the A9 addresses the grip issue it would be a great improvement when handling larger lenses. I would have also like to see the over all camera width slightly increased and a larger screen added. That way the hand spacing is slightly further apart. I notice that when I had a 6D I was slightly steadier holding that camera. Because the grips were effectively the same (apart from the hand height ring finger could fit on 6D) I realized it was how far apart my hands were while taking a shot. With slightly wider being slightly more stable. 

All and all I wish that Canon would come out with compact models for their pro models. Throw all the features of the 1D cameras into a 5D body. All the features of the 5D bodies in 6D bodies. They could even charge a premium for them. I love Canon lenses but they do not make camera I want. Hoping the 6D II hits it out of the park. But I am expecting disappointment. 

It looks like the A9 addresses one of Sony's issues. Sony is addressing the support issue. I guess the only thing left is the Sony flash situation. Maybe the will the emphasis on flash when they release a A9r or A7rIII.


----------



## Mikehit (Apr 28, 2017)

tcmatthews said:


> Throw all the features of the 1D cameras into a 5D body. All the features of the 5D bodies in 6D bodies.



If it were feasible, it begs the question why they have not done it already. 
The 1Dx's are bigger than the 5DIV for very good reasons - landscape/portrait orientation with a built-in grip: put a grip on the 5DIV and the two are the same size. The 1Dx has a bigger battery to power big lenses and give longer time between cycles. The 1Dx has dual processors to split metering/AF and other functions, including managing the buffer to the extent in reality it is not a problem on the 1Dx's.
I think for most shooting the 5DIV is already the 1Dx2 in a 5D body - but for extreme jobs (tracking very fast subjects etc) the 1Dx2 adds another layer rather than being a completely different beast.

In addition, your comment about size explain pretty much why the 5D series are the size they are and justifies Canon's decision. It is also probably part of the reason why pro's are slow to take them up. 

Could they make a 6DII the same size as the 6D? Probably. The 5DIV is smaller and lighter than I expected so maybe the 6DII will follow suit.


----------



## ricky_005 (Apr 28, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > Throw all the features of the 1D cameras into a 5D body. All the features of the 5D bodies in 6D bodies.
> ...



Well said Mike ......Sony camera are to small and anyone that thinks its no problem, must have Tiny Hands like Donald Trump.

I'm sure Donald would say its a Great, Fantastic Terrific camera size .... See look how it fits my tiny hands.


----------



## Hflm (Apr 29, 2017)

Imagine resource: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a9/sony-a9A.HTM#gallery

Very mixed regarding AF, with very good results but also (in my opinion too often) missed shots or front-focussed shots losing them the "money shot". More reviews are necessary.


----------



## Jopa (Apr 30, 2017)

Hflm said:


> Imagine resource: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a9/sony-a9A.HTM#gallery
> 
> Very mixed regarding AF, with very good results but also (in my opinion too often) missed shots or front-focussed shots losing them the "money shot". More reviews are necessary.



Pretty good results imho. I'm really curious to see how it will work with adapted Canon lenses.


----------



## Mikehit (Apr 30, 2017)

That will be interesting - I understand with adapted lenses the frame rate drops significantly so this will include the sort of lenses (f4, f2.8 telephoto primes) that action-shooting pros use regularly


----------



## Jopa (May 1, 2017)

According to the specs it drops to 10fps, which is ok as long as the tracking is good. It's even better than 20fps if 50% is out of focus  I guess we'll have to wait until someone tries it out. Dylan777?


----------



## Hflm (May 1, 2017)

Jopa said:


> According to the specs it drops to 10fps, which is ok as long as the tracking is good. It's even better than 20fps if 50% is out of focus  I guess we'll have to wait until someone tries it out. Dylan777?


https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-alpha-a9-review/
Gordon Laing is someone I usually read regarding camera reviews. This test looks pretty good. I still cannot understand why they don't have cross-type PD detectors build in. The banding is something I don't know, too, whether it is fully resolved in silent shooting. Otherwise a really nice camera.


----------



## Jopa (May 2, 2017)

Gordon says "Note if you’re using adapted A-mount lenses with the LA-EA3 adapter, the fastest burst speed with autofocus on the electronic shutter falls to 10fps, and when using adapted lenses you also *lose* Eye AF and *Lock-on AF* options", so it means the tracking will suffer. Seems like the camera only makes sense if you have all E-mount lenses...



Hflm said:


> I still cannot understand why they don't have cross-type PD detectors build in.



As far as I understand those sensors are not much bigger than regular photo sites. Assuming the sensor is gapless, there is not much space to fit anything bigger? It works in a combination with CDAF and relies mostly on the processing power, so I think it should be quite enough.


----------



## Jopa (May 2, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > Throw all the features of the 1D cameras into a 5D body. All the features of the 5D bodies in 6D bodies.
> ...



I would appreciate if they put a 5dsr-II into a 1dx body, it could be a fine studio camera.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 2, 2017)

Jopa said:


> I would appreciate if they put a 5dsr-II into a 1dx body, it could be a fine studio camera.



I've said for a long time that would be my wish too. A true upgrade to my 1DS MkIII's


----------



## ahsanford (May 2, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > I would appreciate if they put a 5dsr-II into a 1dx body, it could be a fine studio camera.
> ...



+1

I still don't get Canon's reluctance to replace the 1Ds3 here. If someone has $6k burning a hole in their pocket, they shouldn't have to choose between high resolution _*OR*_ the 1D feature set.

- A


----------



## xps (May 19, 2017)

Maybe this body is an well placed system, and it might be better in some specs.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/william-j-claff-claims-a9-two-stops-advantage-nikon-d5-low-iso/
s o n y a l p h a r u m o r s posted an review that it is 1 stop DR advantage over the Nikon D5.


----------



## Dylan777 (May 19, 2017)

xps said:


> Maybe this body is an well placed system, and it might be better in some specs.
> http://www.++++++++rumors.com/william-j-claff-claims-a9-two-stops-advantage-nikon-d5-low-iso/
> s o n y a l p h a r u m o r s posted an review that it is 1 stop DR advantage over the Nikon D5.



Also, early reviews indicated high iso is not greater compared to a7rii (42mp). I thought sports cam should be good at high iso???


----------



## LonelyBoy (May 20, 2017)

scrup said:


> When sales don't take off, watch for the firmware update that unlocks the adapted lens features.



Think that'd make the Sony fans scream about "crippling"? Somehow I doubt it, but it should.


----------



## 3kramd5 (May 24, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe this body is an well placed system, and it might be better in some specs.
> ...



AF looks pretty respectable however:

https://youtu.be/8eQH_praFbk


----------



## Mikehit (May 24, 2017)

That is indeed impressive. The key thing will be how often it nails focus like that - 'pretty respectable' will not cut it with a pro. 
Also, that is with the native Sony lens - performance with f2.8lenses (which will be from other marques and need an adapter) is something else again.


----------



## 3kramd5 (May 24, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Also, that is with the native Sony lens - performance with f2.8lenses (which will be from other marques and need an adapter) is something else again.



That is an f/2.8 lens, right?

I wouldn't judge a sony on its ability to focus lenses from other marques any more than I'd bemoan the responsiveness of third party speedlight systems on my canons. If adapters allow it to focus third party lenses well, that's bonus. 

I'm not feeling moved to sell my 1Dx by any means, but it gives me new hope for mirrorless focusing systems.


----------



## Dylan777 (May 24, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> That is indeed impressive. The key thing will be how often it nails focus like that - 'pretty respectable' will not cut it with a pro.
> Also, that is with the native Sony lens - performance with f2.8lenses (which will be from other marques and need an adapter) is something else again.



Said before, going to say it again. Stay with native lenses to get the BEST out of mirrorless. People keep adapting 3rd party(DSLR lenses) and expect to work as good as native = SAD


----------



## Mikehit (May 24, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Also, that is with the native Sony lens - performance with f2.8lenses (which will be from other marques and need an adapter) is something else again.
> ...



The thing is that this camera is clearly touted as being for the sports and wildlife photographer - and they use a lot of telephoto f2.4 and f4 lenses. These are lenses that Sony lack (yes, they have the 70-2000 f2.8 but that is it) which means that the pro would be using Canon/Nikon lenses with an adapter and performance takes a nosedive if the tortuously long list of Sony footnotes are decyphered correctly. 

From what I read even Sony A mount lenses take a hit with an adapter.


----------



## 3kramd5 (May 24, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> The thing is that this camera is clearly touted as being for the sports and wildlife photographer - and they use a lot of telephoto f2.4 and f4 lenses. These are lenses that Sony lack (yes, they have the 70-2000 f2.8 but that is it) which means that the pro would be using Canon/Nikon lenses with an adapter and performance takes a nosedive if the tortuously long list of Sony footnotes are decyphered correctly.
> 
> From what I read even Sony A mount lenses take a hit with an adapter.



Yes, they have some holes to fill up. There is a rumored 400mm prime coming for E mount (no details), but it's going to take time.

A-mount lenses certainly take a prescribed hit to framerate (50%). It's probably related to expected AF performance since a-mount lenses are designed to focus differently than are e-mount lenses (E-mount focuses stopped down, and the linkages in a-mount lenses can't do it as quickly).


----------



## 3kramd5 (May 26, 2017)

Adapted canon 500mm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=GjPHze8dOCE


----------



## privatebydesign (May 26, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> Adapted canon 500mm
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=GjPHze8dOCE



Interesting, it refocused on the plane really quickly but it failed to reaquire the helicopter for a long time.


----------



## 3kramd5 (May 26, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Adapted canon 500mm
> ...



Yah, it has that "closest subject to the camera" feel to it, at least in whatever mode this was.


----------



## 3kramd5 (May 27, 2017)

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html


Pattern noise at base ISO. Sony is *******.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 27, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html
> 
> 
> Pattern noise at base ISO. Sony is *******.


----------



## Sporgon (May 27, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html
> 
> 
> Pattern noise at base ISO. Sony is *******.



The Sony a9 is a camera aimed at sports and fast action, and in these kinds of situations the photographer doesn't have to create a rapport with the subject, and so has time to concentrate on exposure. An exception to this might be photographing the Russian women's Olympic Curling team, when the photographer may be trying hard to create a rapport with his subjects, but as curling is a pretty slow sport anyway he could use his 1DX. 

This would not be the case with a camera such as the 5Dsr, which is intended for photographing pretty girls half an hour after sun down, and in these situations the photographer must concentrate in creating a rapport with his model, and this leaves little time to consider correct exposure. Thus any reasonable person could conclude that read noise in an A9 is perfectly acceptable whereas in a 5Dsr it is a disaster. 

Also, as a footnote, it seems that in the a9 the red channel is the main culprit so if you stick to photographing Smurfs you'd be fine anyway.


----------



## Ryananthony (May 28, 2017)

The ''1DX killer'' apparently over heated in 20 minutes shooting stills only on a hot day according this photographer. 

Canon is *******. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGl9Tl6Sao


----------



## Jopa (May 28, 2017)

An Mk2 is coming in ~6 months, hopefully they will fix at least some of those issues.


----------



## Jack Douglas (May 28, 2017)

Ryananthony said:


> The ''1DX killer'' apparently over heated in 20 minutes shooting stills only on a hot day according this photographer.
> 
> Canon is *******.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGl9Tl6Sao



He sure gave Sony a piece of his mind over that. It's like, here is a life boat, jump in; it usually works. 

Canon is not presently ******* but I bet they are paying attention.

Jack


----------



## drjlo (May 28, 2017)

Ryananthony said:


> The ''1DX killer'' apparently over heated in 20 minutes shooting stills only on a hot day according this photographer.
> 
> Canon is *******.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGl9Tl6Sao



Kind of reminds me of the Sony HVL-F60M flash overheating fiasco. Sony "fixed" the issue after boatloads of complaints and bad publicity by issuing a new firmware that slows down recycle time and reduce flash power output :-[ 

If Sony fixes the A9 overheating issue by firmware fix to slow down the camera, then I would just spray paint the camera in white color to combat the overheating under the Sun issue


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 5, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html
> 
> Pattern noise at base ISO.



Its users will be able to thank Canon (and specifically some older 7D sensors) for the fact that the likes of Topaz DeNoise comes with a debanding tool!


----------



## Jopa (Jun 12, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html
> ...



Wow... apparently they had to sacrifice a lot to get fast speed.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 12, 2017)

Yep - but the Canon-bashing Sony groupies on here will still find a way to contort this into being "OK", because - y'know - _Sony._

What with this and the "surprising" sensor in the D5 (the Canon 80D has better low ISO DR - which as we're forever being told, is _all_ that matters - than the D5!), it seems like Sony's sensor-fu is getting weaker at just the same time that Canon's is getting stronger...

Wonder if Mikael's head has actually exploded yet...


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 12, 2017)

3kramd5 said:


> https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html
> 
> 
> Pattern noise at base ISO. Sony is *******.



In curious; this became evident when he isolated the Red channel. I don't see it in the complete image. Will this show up in day-to-day normal usage?


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 12, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> it seems like Sony's sensor-fu is getting weaker at just the same time that Canon's is getting stronger...



I don't think it is so much that Sony's follow on sensors are getting weaker, as they made such a huge advance with the A7R series that they hit the technological buffers before Canon has. Tortoise and hare. Which means by the time that mirrorless really catches on, the two will be very similar.

Also, I suspect that Canon has been developing all-purpose sensors with a bent towards their main high-profile lead which is sport and wildlife. Now that Sony is venturing seriously into that market, what we are seeing is Sony having to make the same compromises that Canon and Nikon have been doing for years. And it is a _very_ rude awakening.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 12, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html
> ...



Absolutely yes, given that for years now, Sony aficionados have tried to convince us that underexposing by 6-stops and then pushing images in post constitutes 'day-to-day normal usage'.


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 12, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



Ah yes, of course. Given that kind of 'day-to-day normal usage.' Stupid me. Quick answer is no, but yes to SonyBoys


----------

