# Eos 1DxII comparison with Nikon D5



## xps (Jul 31, 2016)

Found at dpreview.com

Flagships compared: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II versus Nikon D5

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3640026683/flagships-compared-canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-versus-nikon-d5


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 31, 2016)

[quote author='We're not biased' DPR]
While the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II’s autofocus is very good, and leagues ahead of earlier-generation professional Canon cameras, the D5 leaves it in the dust.
[/quote]

Nowhere in the comparison do they happen to mention that with an f/8 lens + TC combo, the 1D X II uses all 61 AF points with 27 cross-type, whereas the D5 is limited to merely 9 selectable AF points of which only one is cross-type. They didn't bother mentioning that in the full D5 review, either. But DPR isn't biased. :


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 31, 2016)

I read the whole thing and it's not toooo bad for bias. The usual subtle bias more in what they don't say than what they do, like dual cross focus points or F8 as mentioned by Neuro. There is of course the usual convenient shifting of emphasis on what features are most important. 16 vs. 14 FPS is not very important for an *action* camera. More telling as one commenter stated is that they tend to use Nikon jargon.

I'll be honestly quite interested to see what future real life shooting shows regarding the vast superiority of Nikon AF. It's fair to say the Nikon is better in some regards but I will happily stick with Canon.

Jack


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## TeT (Jul 31, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> [quote author='We're not biased' DPR]
> While the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II’s autofocus is very good, and leagues ahead of earlier-generation professional Canon cameras, the D5 leaves it in the dust.



Nowhere in the comparison do they happen to mention that with an f/8 lens + TC combo, the 1D X II uses all 61 AF points with 27 cross-type, whereas the D5 is limited to merely 9 selectable AF points of which only one is cross-type. They didn't bother mentioning that in the full D5 review, either. But DPR isn't biased. :
[/quote]

They may not know all of those details... Its not always bias, sometimes its just plain slipshod work..


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## LSXPhotog (Jul 31, 2016)

What no reviewer seems to understand about the 16fps shooting mode is when/how it's used properly. Think A batter connecting with a baseball. Think a profike shot of a motocross rider jumping. Think drag racing engine explosion off the line. The moments where a shooter could use 16fps and not require AF/metering are actually pretty broad.

The 12fps was a big deal when Canon did it and Nikon couldn't. Then Nikon does it and people lose their shit because they didn't know Canon's been doing it for four years. Canon beats them again and the story is "you don't need 14fps". Ha....

Is 3D tracking really this good? I've used it on a D750 and it was horrible. It would obviously be better on a D4 and D5, but when iTR is set up properly, it seems to work extremely well for me in the cases I've needed the camera to make decisions for me. I've concluded that most reviewers, just like DPR, don't take the time to learn and set up the AI Servo settings.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 31, 2016)

LSXPhotog said:


> I've concluded that most reviewers, just like DPR, don't take the time to learn and set up the AI Servo settings.



Well, DPR has learned AI Servo set up so poorly that they routinely refer to it as AF-C when discussing Canon cameras. :


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## IglooEater (Jul 31, 2016)

So canon's autofocus is horrible when set up incorrectly by a Nikon user. Now isn't that surprising. Definitely proof the Nikon's is superior. Also, when they actually manage to get the settings right for a change and the canon gets 100% of the pics in sharp focus, it doesn't matter- it's still not"uncanny" like Nikon's... Hmmm


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## IglooEater (Aug 1, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> LSXPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > I've concluded that most reviewers, just like DPR, don't take the time to learn and set up the AI Servo settings.
> ...



Oooohhhhhh.... Is that why... I seriously could never figure that out.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 1, 2016)

In the DPR motocross comparison article Nikon advertisement, they criticized the 1D X II's automatic AF point selection for doing exactly what it was designed to do. 

[quote author=Canon 1D X II Manual]
*Automatic selection AF*
The Area AF frame (entire AF area) is used to focus. The AF point(s) achieving focus is displayed as <S>.
With One-Shot AF, pressing the shutter button halfway will display the AF point(s) <S> that achieved focus. If multiple AF points are displayed, it means they all have achieved focus. This mode tends to focus on the nearest subject.
[/quote]

[quote author=Clueless about Canon DPR]
*Auto Point Selection* is the tracking mode that utilizes all 61-points and the metering sensor to first identify, then track a subject (iTR). By default, it is set to automatically choose its subject. I found it did this quite poorly, often choosing whatever the nearest point was to the camera instead of the motorcycle cruising by. 
[/quote]

Facepalm, indeed. :


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 1, 2016)

Ah, more good CR humour. ;D 

Jack


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## tpatana (Aug 1, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> In the DPR motocross comparison article Nikon advertisement, they criticized the 1D X II's automatic AF point selection for doing exactly what it was designed to do.
> 
> [quote author=Canon 1D X II Manual]
> *Automatic selection AF*
> ...



[quote author=Clueless about Canon DPR]
*Auto Point Selection* is the tracking mode that utilizes all 61-points and the metering sensor to first identify, then track a subject (iTR). By default, it is set to automatically choose its subject. I found it did this quite poorly, often choosing whatever the nearest point was to the camera instead of the motorcycle cruising by. 
[/quote]

Facepalm, indeed. :
[/quote]

Lol, too funny


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## expatinasia (Aug 1, 2016)

I don't think we should be too harsh on DPR, it is not easy to write quality comedy material so consistently. Few other websites make me laugh so much, and now you can enjoy the fun in dark or light colour scheme! Priceless. I really should visit more often...


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 1, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> I don't think we should be too harsh on DPR, it is not easy to write quality comedy material so consistently. Few other websites make me laugh so much, and now you can enjoy the fun in dark or light colour scheme! Priceless. I really should visit more often...



Yes CR is responsible in one way or tother for lots of laughs! It's great when Rishi visits us and things heat up. Actually, DPR has a good thing going with the controversy.

Jack


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## rishi_sanyal (Aug 4, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> I read the whole thing and it's not toooo bad for bias. The usual subtle bias more in what they don't say than what they do, like dual cross focus points or F8 as mentioned by Neuro. There is of course the usual convenient shifting of emphasis on what features are most important. 16 vs. 14 FPS is not very important for an *action* camera. More telling as one commenter stated is that they tend to use Nikon jargon.



Unfortunately, it appears you missed these passages from our slideshow:



> "Additionally, the 5 central points are dual-cross type, containing a long base-line *x* sensor in addition to the and *+* cross sensor for enhanced AF precision with F2.8 and faster lenses. Indeed, we've found these 5 points to have nearly mirrorless (contrast-detect) levels of precision, important for shallow depth-of-field photography."



... and as for us apparently downplaying the shooting rate differences, I suppose you missed this:



> "Furthermore, the 4K frame grab feature on the EOS-1D X Mark II effectively allows for a 60 fps silent shooting - with AF. Rolling shutter is minimal, so this is actually a usable way of capturing the decisive moment when it comes to very fast action. The D5 can shoot silently at 30 fps for 5s, but you're out of luck if you want autofocus, and you only get 5MP stills out of it in this mode."



We also never said 16 vs 14 fps isn't very important. In fact, quite the contrary: we mentioned that the 16 fps mode on the Canon is more usable than the 14 fps mode on the Nikon when we wrote:



> It's worth noting the Canon can shoot at 16 fps and still display a review image between each shot - allowing you to follow your subject - while the screen on the Nikon stays blacked-out when firing at its 14 fps maximum frame rate.



As for F8 focus, we mentioned it repeatedly in the 1D X II review. You're right, it should've been mentioned in this slideshow, and for that I apologize; it was a simple oversight. I've added that in to the slideshow.

Furthermore, after recent testing of Dual-Pixel AF in 4K/60p mode, I'm simply blown away, and so have updated the performance sections of the slideshow to include this perspective, saying:



> On the numbers alone, the EOS-1D X Mark II has the edge in terms of shooting speed – especially when you consider 4K screen grabs at 60 fps with surprisingly capable AF, and a far more usable high (16) fps mode.



I've also updated the concluding slide to reflect this:



> It's significantly faster if 7MP JPEG stills will suffice, given its 4K/60p frame grab mode with very capable AF.



Finally, as we've stated repeatedly in the comments and I've stated here at CR, we don't use 'Nikon lingo', we use industry standard lingo. We do it intentionally because we have a general readership, not only a Canon-based readership. And the industry has settled on pretty consistent wording for single vs. continuous AF:

- Sony - AF-C / AF-S
- Olympus - C-AF / S-AF
- Nikon - AF-C / AF-S
- Panasonic - AFC / AFS
- Pentax - AF.C / AF.S
- Samsung - CAF / SAF
- Canon - AI Servo / One Shot

Therefore, we use some combination of AF with 'S' or 'C', or spell out 'single AF' or 'continuous AF'. This is the most generally applicable way to talk about this subject for a site that reviews all cameras and expects cross-platform leadership, rather than talking about 'AF-S on the Nikon vs. One Shot on the Canon'. 'One Shot' also has a drive mode connotation to it, which we wish to avoid (drive mode and AF mode are orthogonal). 

That said, before using these terms, we do clarify (you'll see it in the 1D X II review) that 'One Shot' and 'AI Servo' are referred to as 'AF-S' and 'AF-C'.

This is not an indication of bias or incompetency.

I hope that helps clear things up a bit, and thanks for the feedback.
Rishi


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 4, 2016)

Rishi, thanks for that. I thought the 1DX II review was quite good and this D5 comparison was fair so I was not inclined to be overly concerned. Your points are well stated and worth noting. However, when I read your material it won't have the same effect as you reading your own material and so impressions I get you likely would not perceive. It wouldn't be any different if it was my review and you had perceptions about it.

I give you credit for a good job in these recent reviews and appreciate your feedback.

Jack


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## Mikehit (Aug 4, 2016)

Than you for taking the time Rishi. You must have a hide as tough as any pachyderm. 

I wonder sometimes if there are two antagonsitic things going on:
DPR with a historic way of reviewing using Nikon as a benchmark (gradually changing for the better)
Canonistas looking at ways to find an anti-Canon bias in the writing (rather more resistant to change)


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## dslrdummy (Aug 4, 2016)

So it's not top of the pops in all areas. So what. It does just fine thanks.


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## Sporgon (Aug 4, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> Than you for taking the time Rishi. You must have a hide as tough as any pachyderm.
> 
> I wonder sometimes if there are two antagonsitic things going on:
> DPR with a historic way of reviewing using Nikon as a benchmark (gradually changing for the better)
> Canonistas looking at ways to find an anti-Canon bias in the writing (rather more resistant to change)



You'll no doubt note that Rishi doesn't address Neuro's point of the review criticising the D1XII for 'failing' when it was behaving exactly as intended and described as such in the user manual. 

The problem is that these cameras are becoming so sophisticated and complicated they require a decent understanding of their particular system(s) from the user. If that user (or reviewer) is used to say the Nikon system it is inevitable that this kind of faux pas will happen.


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## Mikehit (Aug 4, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Than you for taking the time Rishi. You must have a hide as tough as any pachyderm.
> ...



Sure.
But with the hi-tech nature of these machines, there are very few reviews that keep everyone happy especially with wildlife where cropping is very common and tracking important. Cries of 'but that is not how I shoot' abound. 
My comment was more about perceived rather than actual slights and I think Rishi's last post reveals the risks in that.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 4, 2016)

I have no axe to grind with Rishi and sense that he is doing his best to address whatever may have been less than stellar in the past. Perfection is unattainable.

I believe my past attempt to express what tends to happen is valid. English is one of the most complex languages with many different ways of stating the same thing, with subtle shifts in meaning that change how it will be perceived by various folk. Furthermore, local areas developed nuanced meanings associated with phrases and word order and all these things play into how the message is received. A verbal equivalent is, "it's not what you say but how you say it".

We are beating a dead horse since this will never be resolved and neither does it really matter. Folk who have chosen to exist in an area where there is intense public scrutiny must develop a thick skin, it goes with the territory. Having a thick skin and still being able to respond positively to (often unjust) criticism is a challenge and I give Rishi full credit! I think I'd be inclined to just ignore it. 

Jack


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 4, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> You'll no doubt note that Rishi doesn't address Neuro's point of the review criticising the D1XII for 'failing' when it was behaving exactly as intended and described as such in the user manual.
> 
> The problem is that these cameras are becoming so sophisticated and complicated they require a decent understanding of their particular system(s) from the user. If that user (or reviewer) is used to say the Nikon system it is inevitable that this kind of faux pas will happen.



Exactly, and that's one of the factors that leads to the bias evident on DPR. They drive home their conclusion that the D5's AF system is 'market-leading' and 'the world's best AF system' and that while the 1D X II's AF is good, "_...the D5 leaves it in the dust_." 

Yet they fail to comprehend even very basic characteristics of Canon's AF system, things which could be gleaned simply by RTFM. What does that imply for their ability to learn to properly configure the AF system, if they fail to grasp its basic functionality? Their conclusions regarding AF performance are necessarily flawed.


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## PhotographyFirst (Aug 4, 2016)

Apologies to Rishi and DPR. Apparently several CR members are professional camera reviewers and have produced nothing but flawless reviews with no bias. 

There are some seriously smart people here, which why I am confused as to the "pick a sports team and run with it like an idiot" mentality often shown. Us photographers are one big team. It's us against the normies. Stop the infighting.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 4, 2016)

"Us photographers are one big team. It's us against the normies. Stop the infighting. "

It's just a typical large happy family! Who's fighting? 

Jack


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## GuyF (Aug 4, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Then why hasn't someone filed for divorce?



Oh a few have and they no longer frequent this site. :


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## Valvebounce (Aug 4, 2016)

Hi Folks. 
I think some have filed for divorce, and some of the children have been evicted from the family home! 

Cheers, Graham. 



GuyF said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Then why hasn't someone filed for divorce?
> ...


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 4, 2016)

Better than the funnies.

Jack


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## Sporgon (Aug 4, 2016)

dilbert said:


> One big happy family?
> 
> Then why hasn't someone filed for divorce?



There have been a number of filings for divorce, they just haven't been granted yet - dilbert


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 4, 2016)

rishi_sanyal said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > I read the whole thing and it's not toooo bad for bias. The usual subtle bias more in what they don't say than what they do, like dual cross focus points or F8 as mentioned by Neuro. There is of course the usual convenient shifting of emphasis on what features are most important. 16 vs. 14 FPS is not very important for an *action* camera. More telling as one commenter stated is that they tend to use Nikon jargon.
> ...


Will this mind-blowing frame grab feature have any impact on the score in the 1DX-II review? Come on give the 1DX-II an extra 2 or 3%. You know you want to. ;D


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## GuyF (Aug 5, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > One big happy family?
> ...



Ohh, can you imagine if the divorce were for real? Ahh, the JPEGs were such a nice couple....I hear she got to keep all the megapixels and he was left with just 4 stops of DR.

There's bound to be a greedy lawyer taking notes about this.


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