# EOS 7D mrk. II



## ThomasN (Jun 16, 2011)

I have a very loose rumor about EOS 7D:

Vari-angle monitor 3" OLED 1.1 mil. pixels display (good in the sun)
Video 1080p mode with 30fps (or more) and Autofocus while filming
Live View WITH autofocus
Change able focusing screen (Rules of Thids)
21 mp with ISO 100-25600 (less noice)
Continuous shooting 12fps
Magnisium alloy body
Water resistant (Weathersealing)
19 AF points
Both CF and SD slots
2X Digic V
GPS
Wireless or possibility to use Eye FI SD-card

Can anybody verifi this?

BR
ThomasN


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 16, 2011)

ThomasN said:


> Can anybody verifi this?



I can verify that Canon has never made a 'rule of thirds' focusing screen (they make grid screens, but the grids are more dense than that). Live View WITH autofocus? The current model does that. Bogus. But thanks for playing!


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## ferdi (Jun 16, 2011)

If it is capable of 12 fps then nobody will buy the 1D Mark IV anymore.
Personally I'm hoping for an NTFS-like file system that supports files over 4 GB, and I expect more megapixels.


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## Orangutan (Jun 16, 2011)

ferdi said:


> Personally I'm hoping for an NTFS-like file system that supports files over 4 GB



Not necessary: they could work around the limitation using a series of smaller files that could be merged externally. The big problem now is that the sensor overheats shooting video, and must be shut down until it cools off. Until the cooling problem is completely under control, file size is not the limitation.


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## dstppy (Jun 16, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> ThomasN said:
> 
> 
> > Can anybody verifi this?
> ...



Right, and GPS? Heh. Someone got bored just to yank our chains. I wonder if people think by starting rumors that they'll actually get Canon to MAKE something that they WANT . . . sure hasn't helped with the 5dmk3


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## EYEONE (Jun 16, 2011)

Orangutan said:


> ferdi said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I'm hoping for an NTFS-like file system that supports files over 4 GB
> ...



Well you are right that the sensor can overheat but from my experience shooting video on the 7D and T2i I've always hit the 4gb limit before the heat limit. Actually, I've never hit the heat limit that I know of. When it hits the limit and stops recording I just start again and it continues. I would really like them to address the 4gb limit.


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## gene_can_sing (Jun 16, 2011)

7D2 will probably be a while. Canon can't even do a 1D update, which is 1 year overdue. So, I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## x-vision (Jun 16, 2011)

ThomasN said:


> Can anybody verifi this?



No, this is a wish list. 
The Digic V processor will likely handle very high data throughputs, so the 7DII wonâ€™t need dual Digic Vs, just a single one. 
The other specs seem plausible, although I'm not sure Canon will take the risk of putting a flip-screen on a non-consumer camera.


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## unfocused (Jun 16, 2011)

> Someone got bored just to yank our chains. I wonder if people think by starting rumors that they'll actually get Canon to MAKE something that they WANT





> this is a wish list.



Right and right. Almost anyone who reads this forum could come up with similar specifications. I doubt that Canon has even started to spec out the 7D II in any serious way. It's at least a year and two other models (5D and 1Ds) away from being released. 

At this point their engineers and designers are still working through options and ideas, testing durability and consumer acceptance of features introduced on other models (flip screens). No doubt the 7D team is concentrating on the next generation of APS-C sensors, squeezing a bit more megapixels out while trying to reduce noise, increase ISO and improve dynamic range. 

They will wait until the 1Ds and 5D are released and then allow some of the features in those models to trickle down to the 7D after about a year.


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## Tarrum (Jun 16, 2011)

I say there is no need for these wish lists until we see what the 5D and 1Ds can do. 

I personally want 18MP or a bit more if they decide to, 1 stop better noise performance, dual CF card slot.

You can forget about 12fps unless 1D series will shoot at 15fps+.

And I personally believe they have a few things already sorted out with the 7D, I'm guessing we're going to see it next September or early 2012. For now, the 7D is more than great in my hands.


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## dr croubie (Jun 16, 2011)

ferdi said:


> If it is capable of 12 fps then nobody will buy the 1D Mark IV anymore.
> Personally I'm hoping for an NTFS-like file system that supports files over 4 GB, and I expect more megapixels.



1) possibly true. but some people still buy 1ds3 years after 5d2 came out. (some people > nobody)
2) ReiserFS! it's free and it's open source! (sorry, my inner linux nerd wrote that)


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## UncleFester (Jun 17, 2011)

ferdi said:


> If it is capable of 12 fps then nobody will buy the 1D Mark IV anymore.



They'd be 2 entirely different cameras still, and 12fps wouldn't convince me a 7DII was the better of the 2.


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## Fleetie (Jun 17, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> 2) ReiserFS! it's free and it's open source! (sorry, my inner linux nerd wrote that)



ReiserFS might be free, but its creator isn't! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser (for those who weren't already aware!)


Martin


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## lee_hom (Jun 17, 2011)

I wish your wish comes true


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## skarstein (Jun 20, 2011)

As a cinematographer i would really like to see 1080P 60FPS and maybe 720P 120FPS. Full time auto-focus and ISO-levels with less noise would also be great.


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## autochrome (Jun 21, 2011)

Fleetie said:


> dr croubie said:
> 
> 
> > 2) ReiserFS! it's free and it's open source! (sorry, my inner linux nerd wrote that)
> ...




Reiser3FS is suited towards large quantities of small files, in the KB region. For images, specially RAW, SGI XFS is much more well suited to the task. It was created with the idea of having the fastest access possible to large series of identically (or relatively identical) sized files, in the MB region, such as 35mm motion picture frame scans. Also, after post-production (before the advent of all-digital, RED, digital projectors and so on), after all the post-production and visual effects work you would have to record the frames back to film and you needed a filesystem that would be able to keep up with the required data transfer rates - sustained data rates, not peak/burst data rates.
There are dozens of filesystems around, and just like any other factor, they might or might not be the best solution to the problem, it depends on the problem. If you want the fastest read and write access to large RAW files, then SGI XFS would be one of the top contenders, if not the top contender. If you want to be able to write a large continuous file, perhaps other solutions are more adequate, but this is seriously going off-topic and into a more technical discussion on the virtues and disadvantages of filesystems, so i'll stop here with a good reference for those with a more inquisitive mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

Notice also that the requirements and behaviour of a filesystem depends also on the storage technology, an SSD or another memory technology device is quite different than a HDD.


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## rcha101 (Jun 21, 2011)

Something puzzles me about the Canon line up, all the entry level cameras are APS-C, the enthusiast cameras are APS-C (7D) and 5D MK2 (FF) and the professional is 1D (APS-H) and 1DS (FF). 

With rumors of the 1D going, would it not make sense to make the 7D MK2 APS-H? This way you would have a clear progression from APS-C to APS-H to full frame. 

I think an APS-H would give prosumer users a great camera at a great price point. There seems to be quite a gap between the 7D and the 5D MK2 and not much of a difference between the 60D and the 7D (roughly speaking). 

Also, if Canon are going to bin the APS-H wouldn't it make sense to keep this investment in R&D and use it in another product?


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## Admin US West (Jun 21, 2011)

rcha101 said:


> Something puzzles me about the Canon line up, all the entry level cameras are APS-C, the enthusiast cameras are APS-C (7D) and 5D MK2 (FF) and the professional is 1D (APS-H) and 1DS (FF).
> 
> With rumors of the 1D going, would it not make sense to make the 7D MK2 APS-H? This way you would have a clear progression from APS-C to APS-H to full frame.
> 
> ...


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## ronderick (Jun 21, 2011)

Didn't Canon come up with that unthinkable 120 Megapixel CMOS sensor last year which was in the APS-H format? I guess that's Canon's way of maximizing its asset - by coming up with new prototypes usable for space exploration ;D


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## unfocused (Jun 21, 2011)

> With rumors of the 1D going, would it not make sense to make the 7D MK2 APS-H? This way you would have a clear progression from APS-C to APS-H to full frame.



I don't believe you will ever see Canon change sensor sizes within the same series (7D, 60D, 5D, etc.) The consumer confusion and anger it would create would be a marketing nightmare. 

I personally don't see the APS-H format being around much longer in SLRs (It could be used, however, for specific applications such as security cameras). I believe that technology is overtaking the format. That is, gains in resolution are narrowing the gap between APS-C and Full Frame and the APS-H format occupies a shrinking niche. The marginal gain in quality may soon be insufficient to justify the expense and effort of maintaining the format.

As it stands, Canon's lens lineup does not support the format at the wide end. I think they will drop the APS-H format and shift sports and wildlife shooters to either APS-C or to a 1Ds model that offers sufficient resolution to allow in-camera 1.3 and 1.6 cropping.


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## hlphoto (Jul 2, 2011)

unfocused said:


> I doubt that Canon has even started to spec out the 7D II in any serious way. It's at least a year and two other models (5D and 1Ds) away from being released.


You forgot the 650D, probably 700D, 70D and maybe even 1D Mk5 if they decide not to merge lines (7D was out just before 1D Mk4 was).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 2, 2011)

hlphoto said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I doubt that Canon has even started to spec out the 7D II in any serious way. It's at least a year and two other models (5D and 1Ds) away from being released.
> ...



I expect that they have it pretty well planned out, but I do not think anyone outside a very few at Canon are privy to the plan. Many camera parts are long lead time, so you need to have a model planned a year before you plan to introduce it. That does not mean everything is cast in stone, but, if they do not know what sensor, LCD, processor, etc they plan to use, it will be more than a year off. you do not just decide these things and a week later cameras start rolling down the production line, all the prototyping, tooling, testing, etc take much longer than many think.


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## YoukY63 (Jul 3, 2011)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> hlphoto said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...


Definitely.
The development of a new sensor or a new body start before the release of the previous one! If 1DsIV will be released this summer, expect Canon to already start thinking about 1DsmV, what to change and improve, explore different options, etc... Such high grade camera is specced out maybe 1 year before release. Then start software development and debugging, real life testing, etc...

R&D is a very long process barely understood by many people.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 3, 2011)

YoukY63 said:


> Definitely.
> The development of a new sensor or a new body start before the release of the previous one! If 1DsIV will be released this summer, expect Canon to already start thinking about 1DsmV, what to change and improve, explore different options, etc... Such high grade camera is specced out maybe 1 year before release. Then start software development and debugging, real life testing, etc...
> 
> R&D is a very long process barely understood by many people.



The 1Ds MK IV prototypes have been spotted for three years now. for a one series camera, development is longer than a year.


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## unfocused (Jul 3, 2011)

Just to clarify. 

I was not referring to development, but rather to assigning specific specifications to the 7D Mark II â€“ as in determining what the specific feature set of the new body will be.

The OP listed some very specific specifications, many of which can easily be changed (and probably will be changed) during the year prior to the release of a new body. These are already developed features and the final determination of what goes into the camera will be made based on market research and conditions closer to the time when actual production must begin. 

My point was that it is a bit silly at this stage to believe any rumors about what the specific feature set the 7D Mark II might have.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 3, 2011)

unfocused said:


> Just to clarify.
> 
> These are already developed features



"Vari-angle monitor 3" OLED 1.1 mil. pixels display (good in the sun)
Video 1080p mode with 30fps (or more) and Autofocus while filming
Live View WITH autofocus
Change able focusing screen (Rules of Thids 21 mp with ISO 100-25600 (less noice)
Continuous shooting 12fps Magnisium alloy body
Water resistant (Weathersealing)
19 AF points Both CF and SD slots
2X Digic V
GPS
Wireless or possibility to use Eye FI SD-card"

******************************************************

Which Canon camera has these already Developed features that can be added with no tooling or long lead orders? 

Oled Display? not developed and certainly long lead time

Autofocus while filming? Never seen this in a Canon DSLR. I hope we get it

Changable Screen with rule of thirds? 7D has a lcd screen, adding a rule of thirds will require a new screen, the symbols that display on the lcd screen are designed into the screen, its hardware and software.

21MP APS-C sensor? When and Where was this developed??

Continuous 12 FPS? Haven't seen this in Canon either.

7D already has weather resistent sealing

Digic V - If its developed, we have not yet seen a camera with it.

Putting GPS into a camera requires a lot of development and testing, this is not a already developed item.

Wireless? 7D has wireless flash, and can use eye-Fi cards. Adding a wireless file system is definitely requiring development and tooling. (existing ones use a lot of power and have their own battery.


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## Fleetie (Jul 3, 2011)

Oh come on! If you need a screen with "Rule of Thirds" inscribed onto it, then you probably don't need a 7D! A screen should not prescribe what looks good and what doesn't. 

Just compose the shot already!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 3, 2011)

Fleetie said:


> Oh come on! If you need a screen with "Rule of Thirds" inscribed onto it, then you probably don't need a 7D! A screen should not prescribe what looks good and what doesn't.
> 
> Just compose the shot already!



Just discussing the rumored features, not passing judgement on any of them.


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## Fleetie (Jul 3, 2011)

Wasn't criticising you, Spokane. More the original post, calling for thirds focussing screens. Not aimed at you!


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## surfing_geek (Jul 12, 2011)

i would love 7d mk ii rumours, but i figure it's not going to happen for a while yet. i'm guessing they have to get the big guns refreshed first, meaning we won't see a 7d update before the end of the year. surely they've got to do the 1d(s) and 5d first! i'm probably still not going to have the money for one by then, so will just keep saving and holding out for the replacement, whenever it may come. in the meantime, i'll just make sure i get a computer that can cope with the files......my current one struggles with my 400d files, so no point in upgrading yet!


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## macgregor mathers (Jul 13, 2011)

ferdi said:


> Personally I'm hoping for an NTFS-like file system that supports files over 4 GB, and I expect more megapixels.



Didn't Canon license exFAT, which supports files larger than 4GB, and implement it in existing models, like the EOS 60D ?


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## chuckjr (Jul 14, 2011)

As much as i feel like a 7dMII would be the perfect camera for me if it were FF it seems like the schedule would be completely wrong for Canon's MO. The 1Ds is four years old and they are going to update an 18 month old camera?


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## moreorless (Aug 3, 2011)

With reguards to the 7d mk 2's potential shooting speed one one thing to consider is that the ID may well be FF by the time it comes out so less of a direct competision.

Personally I wouldnt be shocked to see a 7D mk2 released next spring if only to allow it to preview the new processor on crop along with any improvements to the sensor. If the 650D and 70D(if the xxD line carrys on) preview the sensor first its surely going to impact 7D sales heavly.


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## ferdi (Oct 20, 2011)

So now that the 1D X is out, what to expect from the 7D II?
I say:

APS-C 18 MP
45 AF points
9 fps RAW, 10 fps JPG
ISO 100-12800, expandable to 51200
dual DIGIC 5 (not 5+ and no dedicated AE/AF processor)
3.2-inch LCD 1040k, maybe articulated
multiple exposure modes
video recording with file splitting
wave motion cleaning
single CF slot
no built-in GPS or WiFi


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## smirkypants (Oct 20, 2011)

I have a 7D and an 1D Mk IV and I use the 7D more when I shoot sports just because the crop gets me in closer and I don't lose much for what I gain. Honestly, it's nearly perfect and the only things I really want are a little faster processing of RAW to keep it from bogging down (yes, I use a 600x card) and better ISO performance in the 800-3200 range. Everything else would just be cake.


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## surfing_geek (Oct 20, 2011)

Looking at the 7D release cycle (of which there isn't one, obviously  ), I'm guessing if it's a single-digit (higher end) EOS, it'll be on a 3 year release cycle (similar to the 5D, and close to the 1D).


If that's the case, that would make it due for a refresh in September 2012. However, that obviously sits just after the London Olympics and Euro 2012. This makes me wonder whether Canon would consider a release prior to this in order to cash in on sales for those events. Whilst I know it's not THE professional sports camera, as mentioned on here a lot, it is used by a lot of people for such things, with the APS-C giving the extra reach often preferred by sports shooters. I know Canon have just announced the 1DX, however I think that will truly sit outside a lot of peoples budgets (other than the high end pro shooters).


Just my 2p!


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## Forceflow (Oct 20, 2011)

surfing_geek said:


> Looking at the 7D release cycle (of which there isn't one, obviously  ), I'm guessing if it's a single-digit (higher end) EOS, it'll be on a 3 year release cycle (similar to the 5D, and close to the 1D).
> 
> 
> If that's the case, that would make it due for a refresh in September 2012. However, that obviously sits just after the London Olympics and Euro 2012. This makes me wonder whether Canon would consider a release prior to this in order to cash in on sales for those events. Whilst I know it's not THE professional sports camera, as mentioned on here a lot, it is used by a lot of people for such things, with the APS-C giving the extra reach often preferred by sports shooters. I know Canon have just announced the 1DX, however I think that will truly sit outside a lot of peoples budgets (other than the high end pro shooters).
> ...



I would think it just sits inside the budget of professional sports photographers who would shoot at the Olympics though. Just because of this I would actually think Canon will wait until after to get a couple of more sales from folks who would otherwise have gotten the 7D MarkII instead. (That is if the 7D will remain the fast APS-C camera of Canon. Who knows if the 1DX was the only curve ball Canon threw)


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## unfocused (Oct 20, 2011)

> However, that obviously sits just after the London Olympics and Euro 2012.



Don't forget Photokina. Canon will want something to release then.


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## Tarrum (Oct 20, 2011)

I don't think Mark II will have 45AF from (or improved) the previous 1D. More like a highly improved 19AF system, they still need to milk as much money as possible like all other companies.

18MP sounds reasonable, perhaps 21, definitely APS-C. I mean why would they switch the sensor already in the second version.

8 - 10fps is just amazing, I couldn't ask for more in this price range. Its ISO performance is fine at 3200, especially at concerts and sports, though sometimes it's a bit too noisy. One stop improvement would be really nice!

I don't think Canon will announce any speed monster before Olympics, 1DX should have its glory for a long time. 

Photokina would be the best place to announce it, along with a 650D and 5D Mark II some time before that.


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## surfing_geek (Oct 20, 2011)

I'd forgotten about Photokina : !


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## afrank99 (Oct 20, 2011)

ferdi said:


> If it is capable of 12 fps then nobody will buy the 1D Mark IV anymore.
> Personally I'm hoping for an NTFS-like file system that supports files over 4 GB, and I expect more megapixels.



NTFS will never come to cameras (licensing & too complex).

But there is exFAT for this purpose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT


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## Heidrun (Oct 23, 2011)

If it was my dream that came through. 
My wishlist for a 7D or another camera would be this.
APS-C
25-30 MP ( I need something because i want to crop and get a great result for printing large pictures )
Great iso up to 51200.
Don`t need a camera with many pictures in a second
State of the art autofokus system
Weather proofed ( same body as the 1D )
Autofokus up to f.8
Electronic view finder. ( if this is the right name in English )
Built in Battery grip
Build in flash trigger
Build inn GPS

Here it is a picture that i have cropped and used Interpolation to get the best results that i can. But i also wanted it even closer. So you can see for yourself what i mean. Because this was cropped to 2,4 MP from 10,2 MP on 1D mk III. So if i had a bigger megapixel camera i could cropp more. And then i could have the picture big enough for me to have a 60x40 print


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## candyman (Oct 23, 2011)

I think a 7D Mark II will be announced in fall 2012 and available in spring 2013

Probably some specs like:


APS-C 21 MP
19 AF points (maybe more enhanced)
9 fps RAW, 10 fps JPG
carbon fibre shutter
ISO 100-12800, expandable to 51200
dual DIGIC 5 (no dedicated AE/AF processor)
3.0-inch LCD 1040K
wave motion cleaning
usb 3.0
double CF slot

Or it just may be wishful thinking. I am just curious who is able to make the closest prediction 8)


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## Zuuyi (Oct 23, 2011)

I still see the 5D coming out in November (3 year November cycle). The 7D could either come out in the Spring or Fall; I think Photokina 2012. Either one would be a nice addition. 

5D key feature 25-30MP

7D key feature 8 FPS

I plan to get both of the models hopefully they will have some on CLP soon after launch. I hope there is at least a year gap in between them so I can have time to save up.


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## moreorless (Oct 23, 2011)

Tarrum said:


> I don't think Mark II will have 45AF from (or improved) the previous 1D. More like a highly improved 19AF system, they still need to milk as much money as possible like all other companies.
> 
> 18MP sounds reasonable, perhaps 21, definitely APS-C. I mean why would they switch the sensor already in the second version.
> 
> ...



I wouldnt be that supprized to see the 7D inherit the 1D mk4's AF system and generally shift up in the market a bit, seems like it could solve a few problems.

Offer an alternative to the 1DX for 1D users who can't afford it and/or want a crop factor.

Keep it above the 5D mk3/3D/6D in terms fo AF if any of them inherits its old AF system.

Open up more of a market for the 70D which could get its old xxD build quality back if AF became a larger differentiator between it and the 7D.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2011)

I'll bet that the 7DII gets a 21-24 MP sensor...and that's about all except for relatively minor changes (like the updated sensor cleaning system). The 7D already has the best AF system outside of the 1-series, there is no need at all for Canon to update it.


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## photophreek (Oct 23, 2011)

I agree with Neuro. Minor upgrades for the 7d II and that's probably the best we'll see. 

I'll probably get all kinds of reaction to this next comment......but, I think Canon went overboard with the 7d. The camera was probably designed by camera enthusiasts at Canon rather than accountants. Canon could have released the camera with fewer features in 2008 and then released a version II with added features and functions to end up with the current 7d. 

Given that the 1D X won't be available until March 2012, Canon won't announce a 5D III until just before the release date of the 1D X. This timeline will give the market the time to decide which to buy. The actual release date of the 5D III won't happen until at least three to six months after the release date of the 1D X. This timeframe will give the market time to purchase the 1D X and production to catch up with demand. 

As a result, don't expect a 7d replacement to be announced much before spring of 2013 and release to the public in the summer of 2013. My 2 cents and BTW, I certainly don't know any more than anyone else. I'm very happy with my 7d just the way it is.


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## Heidrun (Oct 23, 2011)

The one thing i dont understand if 7D mk II comes along in a year or so. Why then put in old technology like the one in 1D mk IV. They should put in the technology of 1DX . A light 1D X maybe


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## tt (Oct 23, 2011)

If we agree that by Spring 2012, we'll have the 650D updated to a DIGIC V (and it's already 18MP, so will they backtrack and give it the better sensor with lower pixels? PowerShot have DIGIC V, so pretty certain for the 650D) and also the top end 1D and 1D-s lines merged into the 1D-X. 


1D-X Â£5,300

Big gulf of Â£3,500

5D Mark II Â£1,600

7D Â£1,100

60D Â£800

650D Â£600

Seems like the November event will be interesting to give more clarity to the possible rejiggering of line up? Will they announce basically the 5D Mark III as a video sided camera, then use the 7D for the non-video updated models? 

I'm looking to buy a 7D, and agree it's well specced already for the price. But will a lack of the tick box updates happening at the low end and high end not be weird for a consumer - you can buy a 650D with a DIGIC V, but the middle SLRs have to wait a year?


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## ferdi (Oct 23, 2011)

I could live with a few minor upgrades.
Another wish is a battery grip with a joystick.


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## AprilForever (Oct 24, 2011)

Hoping the max ISO climbs... and the mega pixels a bit higher too! 

I will try to keep my gear greed to a minimum when they start to announce it, but, probably I'll fail and jump headlong onto the pre-order bad wagon! (Yes, I love my 7D's that well!)


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## photophreek (Oct 24, 2011)

i agree that a new 7d grip with a joystick would be a really nice addition. I wouldn't wait to buy a 7d thinking that the ver 2 will be out soon. If you wait for the ver 2, you might be waiting quite a while when the current version is pretty darn good.


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## pelebel (Oct 24, 2011)

Why upgrading the 7D? It's an absolute BEAST, far better than the 5D mkII (apart from it's FF sensor)


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## pj1974 (Oct 24, 2011)

The current Canon 7D is indeed a great photographer's tool, and I think Canon raised the bar significantly when it was released as the 'king of the APS-C' cameras. I really like my 7D - and use it for taking photos from a whole range of photographic genres, from wildlife to landscape to 'events' to macro and a bit of everything in between. There is not much that it can't do very well - though of course for a number of dedicated applications full frame has some advantages. 

For sure I would like to take a 'sneak peek' into the future and know what changes will be incorporated into the 7D mk II, and when. If the 7D mk II will be released by April 2012, I do not believe there will be many significant changes with respect to: body layout, AF, Megapixel count, or FPS, though Canon may have decided to make minor tweaks on any of these aspects.

My speculation about possible changes for a Q2 2012 are:
- use of the DIGIC V processor (one for processing) while maintaining 1 processor for AF (maybe a DIGIC IV) 
- a newer sensor with improved noise characteristics / higher dynamic range
- possibly higher ISO range, eg up to 51,200
- some changes to video (perhaps continual AF and higher resolution / frame rate combinations)
- a number of software changes (eg menus, in-camera processing of some image characteristics)
- perhaps more advanced live-view functionality
- some connectivity / peripheral upgrades (wireless / wired and flash control)

I see such a 7D mk II being a modest refinement of an already very 'fine' camera. Perhaps less of an improvement than the 5D Mk II was to the 5D. This is just my opinion, if they aim to release the 7D mk II April 2012, in time for the 2012 London Olympics, it will be the 'non-professionals' choice of a very good camera. 8)

However if a 7D mk II will be released after the Olympics, (eg October 2012, or even in 2013) - I believe we might see more significant changes possibly in the FPS and AF departments. The 7D enjoys very good popularity, and Canon will currently be realising a lot of continuing profits for this as a key prosumer APS-C camera. I do not expect that Canon will change the 7D mk XX sensor size from a APS-C (I hope not... for my purposes I like it as it is, and I have a number of high quality APS-C dedicated lenses!) I certainly don't need a 'new' or better camera... but like I expect a lot of people on these forums, I'm curious about any future DSLRs. ???

That's my 2 cents worth.

Paul


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## unfocused (Oct 24, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'll bet that the 7DII gets a 21-24 MP sensor...and that's about all except for relatively minor changes (like the updated sensor cleaning system). The 7D already has the best AF system outside of the 1-series, there is no need at all for Canon to update it.



Two weeks ago, I would have agreed with that. Now, with the 1D X, I'm not so sure. 

Some thoughts:

Canon learned the dangers of incremental upgrades with the 50D. Great camera, but most 40D users didn't see enough of an improvement to upgrade and the DSLR market had matured sufficiently that there weren't enough new buyers for the 50D. They decided to push the envelope with the 7D and it worked.

Rather than go for incremental upgrades every two years, I see Canon lengthening the refresh cycle and making significant changes in order to convince existing owners to upgrade. For the sake of my checking account, I'd like to skip the 7D Mark II and wait for the Mark III. But that's not in Canon's best interests. I see them making changes in the Mark II to entice current 7D owners to upgrade.

At the same time, with the end of the APS-H format, and with the reduction in megapixels with the 1D X, Canon may be waiting to see what kind of blow back they get from sports and wildlife photographers. They may decide to position the next 7D as a second-body camera for pros who need longer reach in the field. Or, they could even offer a 7D X (one-piece body and grip with full weather-sealing, slightly faster frame-rate, but otherwise functionally the same as the 7D Mark II).

So, I ask myself, what features would entice me to upgrade to the Mark II?

My wish list is short, but similar to others on this forum:


Sensor improvements that emphasize reduced noise, higher ISO and more dynamic range; and 


An even better auto-focus system (Granted the autofocus system on the 7D is the most sophisticated outside of the 1D series, but it could be improved. It is tricky to learn and not always intuitive. As this forum and others have shown, it can be very frustrating for users and simply chalking it up to "user error" doesn't really address the problem. A "baby 1D X" system would be a welcome addition.

Almost everything else is just gravy, including more megapixels. 

Customer satisfaction with the 7D is very high. I think Canon will take their time before releasing a Mark II version and make it a significant upgrade that becomes a "must have" for current 7D owners.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 24, 2011)

unfocused said:


> Rather than go for incremental upgrades every two years, I see Canon lengthening the refresh cycle and making significant changes in order to convince existing owners to upgrade.



I wonder... 

The 7D is somewhat unique in recent years, for Canon - the first introduction of a new line. So, it's hard to base conclusions on that. But, Canon has a very long history of incremental updates to existing lines. If a strong business case could be made for more significant but less frequent updates, I think they'd have changed to that model long ago. For any given model that is an update to an xxD or higher line, I wonder what percent of buyers owned the previous version of the line, vs. what percent owned a different line. I'm sure that Canon has hard data (from product registrations) that address that question, and that may be exactly what underlies the incremental updates we usually see. 

So, does the 7DII need to be made most attractive to 7D owners, or rather, does it need to be most attractive to 50D/60D and T2i/550D/T3i/600D owners? Which would generate more sales dollars/yen for Canon? Given that xxxD owners vastly outnumber 7D owners, I suspect it's the latter. I think we saw that in the specs of the 60D, which was pretty clearly aimed at Rebel/xxxD owners, not as an upgrade for 50D users, who were instead pushed to the 7D.

Canon sells far, far more Rebel/xxxD bodies than any other camera line. For the last 4 years, that line has been on an annual release schedule (and before that, 18 months). Given the current consumer marketplace, and Canon's financial reports projecting increases in revenue from dSLRs, I suspect they'll stick to the annual timetable for the xxxD's. Now, the Rebel line is clearly not intended to induce people to upgrade from one body to the next within that series, so incremental improvements are just fine. But there has to be something that _sounds_ improved, in the name of progress if nothing else. 

The problem is that those annual, incremental updates add up. It simply wouldn't do for those small updates to allow an xxxD camera seem to close the gap to the 7D over time. So, Canon will be constrained to update the 7D fairly soon. For example, I'd assume the T4i/650D will come out in 1Q2012 and will use Digic5. That leaves Canon two choices regarding the sensor. They could reuse the same sensor in the 7D (making three successive xxxD releases with that sensor), which with Digic5 would likely produce less noisy images than the 7D. Or, Canon could release a newer sensor than that found in the 7D, meaning in the eyes of many people (the 1D X's 18 MP notwithstanding), the new xxxD would be 'better' than the 7D. If they choose the former, they might risk a perception problem os going 'stale' by using the same sensor for too many cameras. If they choose the latter, it really forces the 7D hand. Could they even debut a new APS-C sensor in the xxxD, then reuse that 'old' sensor in a 7DII? Or would they use MP as a differentiator, and have a 21 MP APS-C for the new xxxD, followed soon by a 24 MP 7DII?


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## awinphoto (Oct 24, 2011)

You know, after reading this thread, it got me thinking... what else would we really want this camera to do? GPS? WIFI? make coffee? seriously? It makes me wonder if Canon will ever start invoking the old VW model where they pump out a basic shell of a camera for real cheap that has what most people would want to function but offer add ons... Want an 18MP sensor? ok that's an additional $200... Want an 21mp sensor? $250, etc... you want basic AF, comes equiped... You want 19PT AF... an additional $200 unlocked through optional firmware... you want 45 pt... etc... To be honest I cant think of what else I would want my camera to do that's not already included and this could be exactly what could make most people happy... offer options that are either user replaceable or software replaceable... Computers you can change/add memory, if you're savvy enough you can change your own chips, boards, etc... you can customize them to your hearts delights... I could add more jobs at authorized camera stores to do these upgrades for you (like computer store upgrades) and people pay for what they want to use... Just floating the idea.. Red in some fashion employs a similar philosophy... why not evolve the camera industry to do the same...


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## alchera75 (Oct 24, 2011)

I think there will be a 7D MkII in the 2-3 year cycle of that particular product. It will not be a minor update either there will be oodles of goodies within.

Why?

Good question!



The 7D (as it stands) is the flagship APS-C camera for Canon. As far as we all know this is not going to change.


There are quite a few APS-C DSLR's underneath the 7D and these are, with each iteration, getting closer to the 7D in many areas (and may exceed in some too)


As it is a flag ship product ... then by rights it needs to be the one that leads the pack in that segment

So we all know that many of the lower level APS-C DSLR's are on a 2-3 year refresh. Thus the 7D needs to keep up with these or it gets overtaken ... and from a marketing perspective that's just horrible for both Canon and those looking to stay with the 7D line.

What will it have? Who knows, but what the 7D is good for now, will also be true in the future, but with the DIGIC V's and other improvements seen in the 1DX it would be safe to say that a bump in MP's and IQ would be top of the list (whilst keeping wildlife and sports shooters happy with the current FPS offered).

Pretty simple really. You just need to look at where the 7D is aimed ... knowing it the high end camera for that market and it all falls into place quite easily.


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## ianhar (Oct 25, 2011)

I know people are getting excited with all the upgrade they in the 7d mark ii, but if all this update come true, high mp, high fps, better af(which is already is), better build quality(which is already is), weather sealed(which is already is), amazing high iso performance, faster cpu speed, wifi or gps(why do we need this again?) and many other things that are common in the wish list. All of these thing will cost alot. Dont dreaming on to get all of this and just want to pay $1500 for it. You want better iso performance, higher mp this and that but are not willing to pay. That would be ridiculous. So please make some logical analysis before making your wishlist.

Unless 7d will beome the next 1d, i dont think there will be a lot of improvement. If 7d will become the next 7d ie a camera targeted to the professional wildlife and action photography who need extra reach than the ff then i believe a lot of improvement will be done to the 7d but it will cost a lot more than you pay now.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 25, 2011)

Canon and others make incremental updates every couple of years because new buyers want what they see as a recent model, not a 3 or 4 year old model. A incremental upgrade is not expected to draw big numbers of existing owners, but rather compete with new models from the competition.

We see lots of people asking if they should buy now or wait, this validates Canon's practice of incremental updates because first time buyers want a recent model.


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## Woody (Oct 25, 2011)

I only hope for wide dynamic range at low ISO. It's the only thing I want to see in the next APS-C body from Canon. That's just me.


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## moreorless (Oct 25, 2011)

ianhar said:


> I know people are getting excited with all the upgrade they in the 7d mark ii, but if all this update come true, high mp, high fps, better af(which is already is), better build quality(which is already is), weather sealed(which is already is), amazing high iso performance, faster cpu speed, wifi or gps(why do we need this again?) and many other things that are common in the wish list. All of these thing will cost alot. Dont dreaming on to get all of this and just want to pay $1500 for it. You want better iso performance, higher mp this and that but are not willing to pay. That would be ridiculous. So please make some logical analysis before making your wishlist.
> 
> Unless 7d will beome the next 1d, i dont think there will be a lot of improvement. If 7d will become the next 7d ie a camera targeted to the professional wildlife and action photography who need extra reach than the ff then i believe a lot of improvement will be done to the 7d but it will cost a lot more than you pay now.



I wouldnt be that supprized if Canon did indeed shift the 7D up in the market a little to closer to $2000. There is as you say a gap created by the 1DX shifting up in price and losing the crop and also the xxD line has been in no mans land a little. If you shift the 70D up market slightly then perhaps it could get the build quality back that seemed to turn off many prospective users with the 60D.


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## AprilForever (Oct 25, 2011)

Am bracing for the shift. Know it is coming. Mark II will cost more. But, I'm head-over-heals with the 7D, so no longer is my will free to exercise judgment and skip an iteration....


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