# WonderPana FreeArc XL for Canon EF 11-24mm f/4L USM Lens



## mackguyver (Aug 25, 2016)

Has anyone used this yet? I ordered the TS-E 17 f/4L version the other day specifically to use with their ND1000 filter for architectural shots to blur out people & cars and was curious what the XL version is like, other than huge. I have also been using the Breakthrough Filters 10-stopper with great luck on my 24-70 f/2.8II and 70-200 f/2.8 IS II lenses.

I'm honestly trying to decide between the FreeArc XL and the 16-35 f/4 IS as I can live with the 16mm (for exteriors at least). I think I can deal with the size if the quality is decent, but will go with the lens if the adapter and dinner plates don't measure up.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

I have been using the WonderPana Salad Plate system (aka 145) with my TS-E 17L for some time, and it works quite well. My primary use is for the 10-stop ND (although I have the CPL as well, I don't often use it).

My new 11-24L is on a UPS truck 'out for delivery' but given that I'll mainly be using a 10-stop there as well, I am not even considering the WonderPana Dinner Plate system...instead, on that same UPS truck is a 10-stop gelatin filter for the rear slot on the lens. Not an option on the TS-E lenses, but much easier for the 11-24 as long as you don't need a grad ND.


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## mackguyver (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> I have been using the WonderPana Salad Plate system (aka 145) with my TS-E 17L for some time, and it works quite well. My primary use is for the 10-stop ND (although I have the CPL as well, I don't often use it).
> 
> My new 11-24L is on a UPS truck 'out for delivery' but given that I'll mainly be using a 10-stop there as well, I am not even considering the WonderPana Dinner Plate system...instead, on that same UPS truck is a 10-stop gelatin filter for the rear slot on the lens. Not an option on the TS-E lenses, but much easier for the 11-24 as long as you don't need a grad ND.


Thank, Neuro and congrats on the purchase! I have the Wratten 10-stop gel as well, but find it rather tedious to use, although LiveView is a huge help. The biggest issue for me is the delicate nature of it. If you read Kodak's instructions, you'll see it's wildly incompatible with the hot, humid Florida climate I shoot in, and it's not exactly cheap or easily obtained stuff. Of course the huge 186mm filters don't seem very convenient, either.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> Thank, Neuro and congrats on the purchase! I have the Wratten 10-stop gel as well, but find it rather tedious to use, although LiveView is a huge help. The biggest issue for me is the delicate nature of it. If you read Kodak's instructions, you'll see it's wildly incompatible with the hot, humid Florida climate I shoot in, and it's not exactly cheap or easily obtained stuff. Of course the huge 186mm filters don't seem very convenient, either.



Thanks, should be a fun lens! I've handled lots of gelatin filters, but not in Florida... Most of my architecture shooting is while traveling, and even the 145mm filters are a PITA to carry along. Still, the 10-stop is great for blurring out people, bikes, cars, etc.

Here's a blue-hour shot of the Münster in Basel, Switzerland – about a 3.5 minute exposure as you can see from the 100% crop of the clock.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 25, 2016)

I've had the system for the TS-E17 since before the FreeArc version came out, the FreeArc was v2.0. I use it just for the CPL for reflections and it is very well made and works perfectly, I have pontificated the 11-24 version but so far haven't had the need. I have some work coming up later in the year that might just force my hand though, a series of high end bathrooms that could use the reflection control on glass panels and stone surfaces and the 17 might not be wide enough.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 25, 2016)

Of more practical help.

I know you had the pdf for the template for the rear mount gels, if you post it again I'll cut down some ROSCO ND gels I have that work fine here in FL and send you the RAW files with and without the gels in place on the 11-24 at whatever focal length and aperture you like.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

@PBD, how dark do the Rosco swatches go? From what I see, they only go to 0.9 / 3-stop (the eColour+ seem to go to 1.2 / 4-stop). For me, that's not going to be dark enough (short of stacking 2-3 of them).

@mackguyver, that template sounds useful!


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## privatebydesign (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> @PBD, how dark do the Rosco swatches go? From what I see, they only go to 0.9 / 3-stop (the eColour+ seem to go to 1.2 / 4-stop). For me, that's not going to be dark enough (short of stacking 2-3 of them).
> 
> @mackguyver, that template sounds useful!



ROSCO do a 1.2 (4 stop) version. I have the .9 (3 stop) here with me.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/163137-REG/Rosco_102302992124_E_Colour_299_1_2_Neutral.html


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## mackguyver (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks for your responses, guys, and let me dig up the template later tonight. I'll post it on Dropbox or some such this time so it's more of a permanent thing, too. I took some precise measurements and created it in Illustrator, fyi.

I might have to give the Rosco a try for my March-December work. I really like using their gels on my lights, so I'm sure they work well on the lens, too.

UPS just dropped off the Wonderpana for my TS-E 17. I just bought the adapter and ND1000, that's all I see myself needing for now, though I might grab the CPL for interiors at some point.

Speaking of polarizers, I have considered picking up some polarizing film to try in the gel slot. It would be a bit of a pain as you'd have to cut two gels to cover 0- and 90-degree orientations, and you can't rotate it, but it would work.

Also, the Breakthrough ND filter really is as good as you've heard, for standard lenses at least.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 25, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> Thanks for your responses, guys, and let me dig up the template later tonight. I'll post it on Dropbox or some such this time so it's more of a permanent thing, too. I took some precise measurements and created it in Illustrator, fyi.
> 
> I might have to give the Rosco a try for my March-December work. I really like using their gels on my lights, so I'm sure they work well on the lens, too.
> 
> ...



I have worked with polarizing gel, it is awful stuff. Very easy to mark and I tried several and none were satisfactory. I used them on lights too do do some artwork reproduction cross polarization, frikin nightmare.

Did you get the fixed or adjustable Breakthrough ND? I have been doing some outside flash work and want to open my aperture a bit.


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## mackguyver (Aug 26, 2016)

Here's the PDF of the gelatin template:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/51u3uvk4laon8mr/Canon%20Lens%20Gelatin%20Template.pdf?dl=0

I bought the fixed ND filter the ND 4.0 / 10-stop. I think that might be a bit much for outdoor flash, though, unless you're at f/1.2, and you can't use (phase) AF. The 3 or 6 stop is usually what I use.

Also, I have tried the film on lights, too, but it was lab-grade stuff many, many years ago and seemed pretty durable from what I remember.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 26, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> Here's the PDF of the gelatin template:



Awesome - thanks much!!




 mackguyver said:


> Also, I have tried the film on lights, too, but it was lab-grade stuff many, many years ago and seemed pretty durable from what I remember.



Many years ago, I was working with a fluorescent dye that absorbed in the green range and would photobleach very rapidly. I wrapped the lab's fluorescent tubes in Rosco Cinegel #3308 (CC30 Magenta) roll film, did the trick.


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## LordofTackle (Aug 26, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Many years ago, I was working with a fluorescent dye that absorbed in the green range and would photobleach very rapidly. I wrapped the lab's fluorescent tubes in Rosco Cinegel #3308 (CC30 Magenta) roll film, did the trick.



So you didn't have these nice black or brown eppendorf tubes? 
We usually just used aluminium foil for short term..

But back on topic: aren't these big filters reaaaally unwieldy??
I haven't worked with them yet but this is the main reason that keeps me from the Tammy 15-30 (that and a not so good experience with the 150-600).
I don't want to take those with me for a longer trip or vacations. A screw-in CPL or ND I can just put in my pockets..

Sebastian


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 26, 2016)

LordofTackle said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Many years ago, I was working with a fluorescent dye that absorbed in the green range and would photobleach very rapidly. I wrapped the lab's fluorescent tubes in Rosco Cinegel #3308 (CC30 Magenta) roll film, did the trick.
> ...



And black pipette tips? Since the dyes were being used to label tissue sections, we'd have needed black slides and coverslips, too. Oh, wait...


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## LordofTackle (Aug 26, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> LordofTackle said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



;D


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## mackguyver (Aug 26, 2016)

Happy to help with the template. The best way to use is to tape the gelatin to the paper and then cut. It may sound obvious, but I have tried to handhold when cutting down similar things (like SIM cards) and it doesn't work too well .

Also, I got the WonderPana for my TS-E 17 yesterday. It's good quality, but I can't believe the pouch won't hold the adapter and the lens cap or lens cap + ND filter. Not a big deal, but annoying all the same.

I'm still on the fence about getting the XL for the 11-24. I haven't found myself using the 11-24 for exteriors a whole lot as the shift of the TS-E 17 is much more useful and is generally wide enough. 



LordofTackle said:


> But back on topic: aren't these big filters reaaaally unwieldy??
> I haven't worked with them yet but this is the main reason that keeps me from the Tammy 15-30 (that and a not so good experience with the 150-600).
> I don't want to take those with me for a longer trip or vacations. A screw-in CPL or ND I can just put in my pockets..
> 
> Sebastian


Based on the kit I received yesterday, it's not as bad as I thought, but the XL / 186mm model looks huge on their website. I'm just doing commercial work in civilization these days, so it's not a big deal to carry them around in my Pelican case. As for travel, I stick with my baby SL1 and EF-S lenses with teeny filters these days - the big bodies and lenses stay at home...so I can't imagine taking this with me!


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## crazydogrun (Aug 26, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> Here's the PDF of the gelatin template:
> 
> Thanks! This is very helpful.


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## mackguyver (Aug 27, 2016)

Also, for the record, the Wratten packaging says to keep the temperature below 78F and relative humidity under 50%. That combination means I can use it without deteriorating it about 10 days a year here in Florida...or only indoors...  ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 27, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> Also, for the record, the Wratten packaging says to keep the temperature below 78F and relative humidity under 50%. That combination means I can use it without deteriorating it about 10 days a year here in Florida...or only indoors...  ;D



I did notice that, but I'm not too concerned. First, the scientific/optical company from which I used to buy Wratten filters (the original ones, before Wratten 2) cautioned against "prolonged storage at temperatures higher than 50 °C," and while it's hot in Florida I doubt it gets above 122 °F all that often. The Wratten 2 filters are supposed to be tougher and less prone to humidity effects (it fogs the filters). 

But hey, at $19 a pop (I figure I can cut four from the $75 3x3" square), it's not too bad if I burn a couple.


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## mackguyver (Aug 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > Also, for the record, the Wratten packaging says to keep the temperature below 78F and relative humidity under 50%. That combination means I can use it without deteriorating it about 10 days a year here in Florida...or only indoors...  ;D
> ...


It's true and while I haven't used it a lot, it's always been at least 80F and 60% RH each time and after over a year, it looks as clear as when I purchased it. I'm also not too worried about it throwing off my lab results


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## privatebydesign (Aug 29, 2016)

Looks like we have our first forum XL owner.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26607.msg618070#msg618070

mackguyver, thanks for the template, I have printed them out but have lost my Exacto knife! Anyway I ill be testing the 11-24 with the .9 ROSCO ND gel early this coming week. I want to try one and two layers of it.


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## mackguyver (Aug 29, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Looks like we have our first forum XL owner.
> 
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26607.msg618070#msg618070
> 
> mackguyver, thanks for the template, I have printed them out but have lost my Exacto knife! Anyway I ill be testing the 11-24 with the .9 ROSCO ND gel early this coming week. I want to try one and two layers of it.


That should be interesting - obviously the adapter wouldn't be as perfect as the TS-E 17mm model, but that's not what I was hoping to hear as I can't imagine leaving that on the lens all the time.

Also, Exacto knife? I braved it with scissors  Not really precise, but there's enough overlap in the template so you don't have be precise.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 29, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like we have our first forum XL owner.
> ...



Ha, I was going to use the scissors but apparently _'we'_ pruned the oak shoots with them 

I did fold the template along two edges to make a pocket and slipped the gel into it, so if I do ever find anything with a sharp edge left in this house I only need to make two cuts and take those two corners off.

The TS-E17 Wonderpana solution is particularly elegant, much nicer than their other UWA solutions.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

So initial tests with the ROSCO .9 ND gel seem positive.

I created profiles for both images, first is no gel, second is 3 stops longer exposure (done in Manual mode) with one piece of .9 gel in place. 

Third is an alternating GIF as that is the easiest way to see the differences. Not much I am sure you will agree.

I'll do more tests outside if I get the weather tomorrow at different focal lengths and apertures.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 30, 2016)

You know I'm not too swift.... how do you do an alternating GIF posting. It's late and I thought at first I was going crazy when I saw blinking! 

Jack


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

Jack,

In PS I just make an animation from layers then save as GIF.

You need PS first (though I am sure many other programs do it too), then with the 'Timeline' window visible select all the layers you want to use then click 'Create Frame Animation', select your choices from the options, framerate etc, then, as I am an oldtimer, I use 'Export-Save for Web (Legacy)' and choose the size and quality options and click.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 30, 2016)

Thanks for that Scott. Being so overwhelmed by all the stuff I'm having to learn, I've resisted getting PS but I guess the time is soon coming .... ugh. If I could just turn back the clock.

Jack


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## mackguyver (Aug 30, 2016)

Looks good, Private, and certainly a whole lot less than the Wratten film. I'm sorry to hear about the scissors...a lot of my tools/gear end up being used by 'us' like that, too. And yes, the TS-E adapter is excellent - it's too bad Canon went for the push on cap with the 11-24. It seems like they could have created a twist-lock mechanism, too, but I guess it would be a $3500 lens with that


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> Looks good, Private, and certainly a whole lot less than the Wratten film.



Obviously I applied the custom profiles to both images so the differences should be comparatively small. Looks like the contrast takes a bit of a hit with the filter but nothing serious. I made the profiles under full spectrum lights so they should be close to accurate for midday daylight too.

Weather isn't playing ball today lots of clouds and rain with no constant light.


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## mackguyver (Aug 30, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Weather isn't playing ball today lots of clouds and rain with no constant light.


I think it's only going to get worse, too. I hope you stay safe later this week...


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## privatebydesign (Sep 1, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Weather isn't playing ball today lots of clouds and rain with no constant light.
> ...



Looks like it is. We expect some localized flooding and it is already raining in earnest, but it looks like you might get every bit as much so you stay safe too. 

Got gas for the generator and a new chain on the chainsaw!


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## mackguyver (Sep 27, 2016)

We had no power for nearly 4 days...my new camera gear fund purchased a dual fuel generator and a stockpile of propane... I'm not relying on my corrupt moronic local government for power anymore...

As for this adapter, I'm still considering it. The ability to use grads is what I'm interested in for the most part, but for a full set, you're getting into 16-35 f/4 IS territory, especially used/refurb.


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## GMCPhotographics (Sep 28, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> Has anyone used this yet? I ordered the TS-E 17 f/4L version the other day specifically to use with their ND1000 filter for architectural shots to blur out people & cars and was curious what the XL version is like, other than huge. I have also been using the Breakthrough Filters 10-stopper with great luck on my 24-70 f/2.8II and 70-200 f/2.8 IS II lenses.



It's it funny what we now consider a "huge filter". Not long ago we were whining about 82mm threads...I remember cobbling a X pro sized rig for my full frame Sigma 12-24mm mkI. I thought those 100mm filters were big. Then I got a TS-e 17L and a Wonderpanna and those filters are like dinner plates. Like you, I'm after a CPL, 5 stop and a 10 stop. So now there's even bigger options available for the 11-24L...I'm like...What??? All this would be SO much easier if Canon, Sigma and Nikon developed drop in filters for their Uber-Wides. Or it won't be long until we are trying to attach filters the same size as the objective elements on our big wild life lenses.


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