# EOS 4D full frame (6D)



## Ew (May 25, 2012)

All this talk of price / options / positioning of a lower cost FF body distorts the camera line in one way or another. 

I see this as the following possible relationship:

7D 5D3
------ = --------
60D new 4D

For the new FF body: 
We scale down weather sealing
Provide articulating screen
Lower fps (rebel level + fraction)
Video as in 5d3 (& allowing ML)
Price point differential as in 7D/60D (25-30%??)

Hits those wanting FF, not needing higher FPS
Hits vid lovers, willing to compromise on build (eg GH2 crowd)

60D is a nice niche body IMHO - this would be the basis for lower cost FF


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## briansquibb (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

7D AF as well to keep the differentiation?

4D name implies (using Canon numbering) better than 5D - perhaps 6D then??


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## Ew (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

definetly 6D over 4D


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## niccyboy (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

Why would the number be lower than the 5Dx

What you are suggesting is:
1dx -> 5dmk3 -> 4d -> 7d/60d etc

Doesn't make sense


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## briansquibb (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



niccyboy said:


> Why would the number be lower than the 5Dx
> 
> What you are suggesting is:
> 1dx -> 5dmk3 -> 4d -> 7d/60d etc
> ...



I think the OP already agreed 6D would make more sense


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## pdirestajr (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

I believe the number "4" is bad and usually skipped in Japanese culture. Not sure of the validity of that statement, I just think I read that in a few places.

Makes sense, Lumix went from the LX3 to the LX5, and the gf3 to the gf5.

So we should probably take the 4 off the table.

Also, like others have said, a lower number indicates higher end model.


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## funkboy (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

In many Asian languages the number "4" sounds very much like the word for "death", and has superstitious connotations in some cultures as a result. Much worse than the number 13 in English, which is merely bad luck.

Obviously this doesn't apply to numbers like 40 or 400 (see EOS 40D & Nikon D400) as the sound apparently isn't the same.

Not that that stopped Nikon from releasing a "D4" of course. But then Canon always skipped around the number 4 (EOS 3, EOS 5, etc) where as Nikon had the F4 as well...


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## lottetashilama (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

From what I read at the bottom of your posts, you guys own a *lot of gear*, but considering the uselessness and waste of time of the discussion you're having, not that many clients to use it for!!!
;/


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## Kernuak (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



pdirestajr said:


> I believe the number "4" is bad and usually skipped in Japanese culture. Not sure of the validity of that statement, I just think I read that in a few places.
> 
> Makes sense, Lumix went from the LX3 to the LX5, and the gf3 to the gf5.
> 
> ...


The same argument was used to say that Canon wouldn't release a 1D Mk4...


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## pdirestajr (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



lottetashilama said:


> From what I read at the bottom of your posts, you guys own a *lot of gear*, but considering the uselessness and waste of time of the discussion you're having, not that many clients to use it for!!!
> ;/



Smite.

Wouldn't your post be considered even more of a waste of time then? And you know time is money...


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## briansquibb (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



lottetashilama said:


> From what I read at the bottom of your posts, you guys own a *lot of gear*, but considering the uselessness and waste of time of the discussion you're having, not that many clients to use it for!!!
> ;/



Clients?? why would an amateur like me have clients? Anyway from the line at the bottom of my posts you have little idea about what I own apart from the 3 cameras I have disclosed.

Personally I am interested in anything that Canon offer - even the rumoured 650D because it has full time video AF. A cheap, updated full frame might be of interest - and that is for me to decide.


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## KeithR (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



lottetashilama said:


> From what I read at the bottom of your posts, you guys own a *lot of gear*, but considering the uselessness and waste of time of the discussion you're having, not that many clients to use it for!!!
> ;/


 Some of the least talented, most ignorant and uninformed photographers I know have clients - I wouldn't trust their opinion as far as I could throw them.


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## FyreStorm (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

Anyone else think that they are over saturating the market?

Rebel = Beginner 
60D = Advanced Beginner
7D = Enthusiast
5D3 = Pro
1DX = Advanced Pro

I don't think we need to plug any more holes...just my 2 cents...


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## cliffwang (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



FyreStorm said:


> Anyone else think that they are over saturating the market?
> 
> Rebel = Beginner
> 60D = Advanced Beginner
> ...


I think there is still a room for entry level FF. Now 5D2 should be defined for this market. 6D is more making sense for me.


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## Marsu42 (May 25, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



FyreStorm said:


> I don't think we need to plug any more holes...just my 2 cents...



That's too simplistic, 7d aps-c and 5d2 ff have completely different characteristics not only because their af etc. is different but because the 1.6x crop factor makes the same lens behave so differently.



funkboy said:


> Not that that stopped Nikon from releasing a "D4" of course. But then Canon always skipped around the number 4 (EOS 3, EOS 5, etc) where as Nikon had the F4 as well...



Now it would be interesting if Nikon pro photogs are more often hit by lightning or a crashing satellite when at work


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## DavidRiesenberg (May 26, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



Marsu42 said:


> Now it would be interesting if Nikon pro photogs are more often hit by lightning or a crashing satellite when at work



If that happens, I wonder if Nikon will issue a recall to rebadge the cameras.


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## Positron (May 26, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



Kernuak said:


> pdirestajr said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the number "4" is bad and usually skipped in Japanese culture. Not sure of the validity of that statement, I just think I read that in a few places.
> ...



The aversion isn't so strong that the number can't be used at all, but it is really bad, and I agree that they would avoid making the bulk of the name of a product the number 4, for fear of losing potential customers due to superstition. The worst part about it is that it has a multiplicative effect with other superstitions. To illustrate how bad it can be, in most rule sets for Japanese Mahjong, if all four players discard the same wind tile on the same turn, the game is instantly declared a draw, originally implemented _for fear that if the game were to continue, all participants would die_. Sadly, this isn't even that rare statistically; assuming that a player was willing to discard the fourth wind at all, it would occur approximately once every 750 games if all tiles had an equal chance of discard. In reality, once strategy is factored in, the true rate is much higher.

In the case of the 1D Mark IV, there are two things going on. One is that the number 4 is auxiliary to the name, and two is that "Mark IV" is canonically said in transliterated English even in Japan, made very easy to market as such because there's no direct Japanese translation for the word "Mark" used as such, so it no longer sounds anything like "death".


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## Imagination_landB (May 26, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*

By logic it would be a 6d. Lower the series number are, better the camera is (except it's the opposite with 60d and rebels when a newer model is out but the main series stays in the same order.) . 1d =best series after 5d, 7d 60d 600d etc. So if a new consumer ff comes out, without all the big specs of the 5d I wouldn,t call it 4d but 6d.


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## Axilrod (May 26, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



lottetashilama said:


> From what I read at the bottom of your posts, you guys own a *lot of gear*, but considering the uselessness and waste of time of the discussion you're having, not that many clients to use it for!!!
> ;/



Don't let the sigs fool you, a lot of people here are just gear heads. I just like playing with cameras, it's more or less a very, very expensive hobby. Although I do shoot quite a bit of video, but I do more editing than anything. Although I don't have quite as much stuff as Brian or Niccyboy, it's still enough for most to assume I shoot professionally.


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## Ew (May 26, 2012)

We see who's pro from the text - and we are grateful to you pros for sharing your realworld experience and suggestions.
Sigs can ref a body of work, or our equipment to help with a ref as to what we're coming from.

As for myself, I've never sold a print, or worked as photog for income. Sound work is my line.
But I love the photo craft, and most of my subjects are our kids, family/friend events, some landscape, some wildlife.

I see my time spent here as valuable (unfortunately there's not too much of it) - advice and people here are gold. If I don't like a subject in the threads, I don't read it.

Thank you all for sharing and building this community.


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## briansquibb (May 26, 2012)

Ew said:


> As for myself, I've never sold a print, or worked as photog for income.



Nor me


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## Heidrun (May 26, 2012)

Ew said:


> All this talk of price / options / positioning of a lower cost FF body distorts the camera line in one way or another.
> 
> I see this as the following possible relationship:
> 
> ...



If there is a 4D ff coming . I will defeitly have weather sealing as a priority. They can scrap the video


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## crasher8 (May 26, 2012)

I see it differently. I think a lower priced FF body is just a rumor and the two new bodies coming are both 1.6

60D becomes a 70D with full time AF on video and partial weather sealing.
7D becomes 6D with 5D3's AF, lower noise ISO and an articulating screen.

I think FF goes from numbers 1-5 and everything above is crop.


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## AG (May 26, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



FyreStorm said:


> Anyone else think that they are over saturating the market?
> 
> Rebel = Beginner
> 60D = Advanced Beginner
> ...



You forgot

1100D = the My First DLSR

;D


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## Marsu42 (May 26, 2012)

crasher8 said:


> 60D becomes a 70D with full time AF on video and partial weather sealing.



The 60d already has "partial" sealing. Actually, every type of sealing is partial, it just depends on how you use it - the 1d series have the best and better than 5d3, ...



crasher8 said:


> 7D becomes 6D with 5D3's AF, lower noise ISO and an articulating screen.



If they want the 7d customer base to upgrade, they'll call it 7d2 for marketing reasons so that the 7d1 will be "old". And if they put in an articulating screen in a 7d body I'll laugh my ass off because that's one of the things 7d users always laugh at concerning the 60d/600d ("only the rebels have it - it can't be good or pro").


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## Positron (May 26, 2012)

crasher8 said:


> I see it differently. I think a lower priced FF body is just a rumor and the two new bodies coming are both 1.6
> 
> 60D becomes a 70D with full time AF on video and partial weather sealing.
> 7D becomes 6D with 5D3's AF, lower noise ISO and an articulating screen.
> ...



Naming is not that simple when you have so many products. They've backed themselves into a corner a few times (see S100), but also remember that the 1D (non-s) series is not full frame; also that the EOS 500 and 650 by virtue of being film cameras are "full-frame", while the 500D and eventual 650D are and won't be.

In an ideal world, all this stuff would have been thought out ahead of time. However, in the real world, even the best visionaries cannot predict 25 years into the future.


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## Tcapp (May 26, 2012)

Ew said:


> We see who's pro from the text - and we are grateful to you pros for sharing your realworld experience and suggestions.
> Sigs can ref a body of work, or our equipment to help with a ref as to what we're coming from.
> 
> As for myself, I've never sold a print, or worked as photog for income. Sound work is my line.
> ...



We love you too.


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## wickidwombat (May 27, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



pdirestajr said:


> I believe the number "4" is bad and usually skipped in Japanese culture. Not sure of the validity of that statement, I just think I read that in a few places.



hows that working out for Nikon?


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## Positron (May 27, 2012)

*Re: EOS 4D full frame*



wickidwombat said:


> pdirestajr said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the number "4" is bad and usually skipped in Japanese culture. Not sure of the validity of that statement, I just think I read that in a few places.
> ...



Good question. No clue. D4 is definitely harder to pronounce like death than 4D is, though.

I guess it's also worth considering that most of the people who are buying the D4 simply want the best, either because it's how they make their living or because they are serious enthusiasts. In that sense, they already know what they want and no name is going to change that, so maybe it's a moot point. In comparison, the target market for the camera we're talking about here is probably closer to the D800's demographic, and more likely to include people with a bit too much discretionary income who just want it because they heard it's a good camera.

You do bring up a good point though, and I'm curious if it has caused any problems for them.


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## Axilrod (May 29, 2012)

I wouldn't equate the 5DIII to the 7D at all, aside from the still/video switch they are completely different cameras.


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## crasher8 (May 29, 2012)

I sell prints on a weekly basis. Do I call myself a pro? No. Do others? I'll check and get back to you.


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