# Industry News: Leica makes 5 announcements, including a new Leica S series camera



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 25, 2018)

> A first-of-its-kind mount that sets a new industry standard, the next evolution of the Leica S-System, a new mobile application and more take center stage
> *September 25, 2018-* Leica Camera today unveils five major announcements at photokina including a groundbreaking L-mount, a new mobile application – Leica FOTOS, the Leica S3, a new color option for the Leica CL, and firmware updates. Each announcement, on their own and collectively, both raise and challenge the bar for what innovation, craftsmanship and ingenuity mean in the photography industry.
> *The Game-Changing L-Mount*
> The new L-mount sets a new industry standard and marks the start of a new era of creative freedom. A first of its kind, the mount will allow for a nearly limitless array of options by combining different interchangeable lenses with cameras featuring different sensor formats. This user-friendly solution pioneered by Leica in strategic collaboration with Panasonic and SIGMA, three key players in the...



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## sdz (Sep 25, 2018)

Another day, another mount.


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## crazyrunner33 (Sep 25, 2018)

Looks like it'll be the first full frame with 4k60p.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 25, 2018)

L-Mount Alliance seemes to be the most interesting thing to come from Photokina so far. Panasonic, Leica and Sigma with native full frame interchangeabily seems like a good start to a new system. That Lumix SR1 could be a beast. What a great time to be a gear nerd!


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## BurningPlatform (Sep 25, 2018)

Wasn't the mount itself published in 2014, the news today was the consortium with Panasonic and Sigma? There already exists a number of L-mount cameras and lenses by Leica.


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## tmroper (Sep 25, 2018)

I'm a little confused: what's new about this L mount vs the old L mount?


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## fullstop (Sep 25, 2018)

BurningPlatform said:


> Wasn't the mount itself published in 2014, the news today was the consortium with Panasonic and Sigma? There already exists a number of L-mount cameras and lenses by Leica.



yes. It was introduced as Leica T-mount for APS-C. Then in Oct. 2015 Leica launched FF-sensored SL camera system and used the same mount for it. renamed the mount "L-mount" then. There are FF lenses for it and APS-C lenses. "1-mount solution" for both FF and APS-C image circle, like Sony E-mount.

Today's L-mount press release says 20 mm FFD and 51.6 mm "diameter", other/older sources state 48.8 throat width. Needs to be confirmed. 

Unfortunately for me, so far, all L-mount bodies are BEHEMOTH. Leica SL is BIG & FAT and Pana S1/R are also way bigger than Nikon Z and Canon EOS R. similar to GH5: oversize shell relative to sensor surface. So for all with large hands and a preference for CHUNKY cameras, this is for you. Me, I'll pass. 

Oh how I would like to get a compact FF mirrorfree camera without hump on top ... "range-finder-styled" .. a bit similar to new Fuji GFR, but of course not stupid retro looks and retro-UI with monofunctional pseudo-mechanical dials, but fully "digital", late 2018 UI.

Eventually I will get it. I There are enough people who would also like just that.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 25, 2018)

Same L mount as far as I know. The news is that it will now be supported with interchangeable cameras and lenses from both Panasonic and Sigma with more manufactures possibly to follow. Sigma will have a native platform for it's mirrorless lenses. Panasonic gets a headstart in jumping into Full Frame.


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## fullstop (Sep 25, 2018)

tmroper said:


> I'm a little confused: what's new about this L mount vs the old L mount?



nothing as far as mount geometry and parameters are concerned. But now it's no longer Leica-proprietary but supported also by Panasonic and Sigma. "gang-of-3 alliance" .. similar to mFT consortium. 

https://l-mount.com/en/Overview


There will or might be bodies and lenses from all 3 of them. They will or should be "cross-compatible" amongst each other, but likely a good number of small-print footnote caveats and limitations will apply.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 25, 2018)

Has Sigma comented on Canon R or Nikon Z mount support? Makes you wonder if Canon and Nikon are trying to shut them out.


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## BurningPlatform (Sep 25, 2018)

This is very interesting news indeed. I hope Sigma makes an L-mount camera with a Foveon sensor. When you want to impress your friends, you take your Leica. If you want to shoot video, you'll take the Panasonic. And if you want the Foveon look for your photos, you'll take your (so far not announced) Sigma. This may be a game changer.


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## fullstop (Sep 25, 2018)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Has Sigma comented on Canon R or Nikon Z mount support? Makes you wonder if Canon and Nikon are trying to shut them out.



nope. Sigma only said the do native Sony (F)E-mount lenses (FF as well). I also think Canon and Nikon are shutting 3rd party out of R and Z mount using new, extremely proprietary, fully patented and technically protected software/protocol means. Just spoofing a 3-digit "lens-ID" will not give access to system any longer, but rather "error 99: not compatible lens"


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## fullstop (Sep 25, 2018)

BurningPlatform said:


> This is very interesting news indeed. I hope Sigma makes an L-mount camera with a Foveon sensor. When you want to impress your friends, you take your Leica. If you want to shoot video, you'll take the Panasonic. And if you want the Foveon look for your photos, you'll take your (so far not announced) Sigma. This may be a game changer.



oh boy, I hope Sigma is cured from that Foveon-virus. If not, they will suffer the same fate as with all their Foveon cameras so far. Nice at ISO 100, pretty much useless otherwise.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 25, 2018)

Apparently Sigma has announced they intend to release a full frame Foveon camera as well as an EF to L mount adapter sometime next year.


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## BurningPlatform (Sep 25, 2018)

fullstop said:


> I also think Canon and Nikon are shutting 3rd party out of R and Z mount using new, extremely proprietary, fully patented and technically protected software/protocol means. Just spoofing a 3-digit "lens-ID" will not give access to system any longer, but rather "error 99: not compatible lens"


Canon and Nikon may very well try to keep the Z and R mounts closed by using e.g. simple cryptographic protection in the lens to body communications protocol. I personally think that would not be a good idea, it would isolate these systems from possibly very useful extensions and options from third parties. In any case, as they have to provide full EF / F compatibility to the foreseeable future, third party manufacturers could probably still produce (physical) R-mount and Z-mount lenses that use EF or F protocol. Unless the adapter/body protocol also contains logic to prevent an 3rd party lens from talking to the body. In that case they would have to stick with EF and F mount lenses with adapter.


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## fullstop (Sep 25, 2018)

well, if i were on the "proprietary trip" as a company, I would make DEAD SURE i lock out anything and everything as best as i can. 
If not, i would license or go open standard.
As a customer i would prefer legal EU requirement for ONE unified lens mount + protocol.


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## FramerMCB (Sep 25, 2018)

fullstop said:


> nope. Sigma only said the do native Sony (F)E-mount lenses (FF as well). I also think Canon and Nikon are shutting 3rd party out of R and Z mount using new, extremely proprietary, fully patented and technically protected software/protocol means. Just spoofing a 3-digit "lens-ID" will not give access to system any longer, but rather "error 99: not compatible lens"


That may be, but you can still use all of the current (and future) Sigma Art's (etc.) on the R with the new Canon EOS EF/EF-S adapters. I'd like to see someone review Sigma's 14mm f1.8 using the fancier of the adapters (the one with the drop-in and "dial-up" with the ND) for some waterfall and landscape stuff (and/or the CPL adapter too)...


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## fullstop (Sep 25, 2018)

sigma art sh*t will only work on EOS R as long as Canon lets them ... the moment they want to shut them down, they can ... and will.


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## Quirkz (Sep 26, 2018)

fullstop said:


> well, iif i was on the "porprietary trip" as a company, I would make DEAD SURE i lock out anything and everything as best as i can.
> If not, i would license or go open standrad.
> 
> As a customer i would prefer legal EU requirement for ONE unified lens mount + protocol.



Absolutely. Let’s get the government to design it and mandate all cameras conform to this new lens mount. Damn the corporations. They don’t know what they are doing, and I dislike this competition and choice.

While we’re at it, I’m sick of this Mac vs windows. I think the EU should require all computers be Linux from now on.

While we’re at it, what’s with this plethora of color choices in clothing and cars?

Colour puce from now on. Only puce.


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## PGSanta (Sep 26, 2018)

Quirkz said:


> Absolutely. Let’s get the government to design it and mandate all cameras conform to this new lens mount. Damn the corporations. They don’t know what they are doing, and I dislike this competition and choice.
> 
> While we’re at it, I’m sick of this Mac vs windows. I think the EU should require all computers be Linux from now on.
> 
> ...



Seriously. It's like some people don't understand how innovation is usually triggered within markets. Want to kill the camera industry... have the E.U. step in and toss around mandates.


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## fullstop (Sep 26, 2018)

for consumer products i like legally enforced standardization. i still praise the day when EU finally stepped in and legally obliged all (consumer) mobile device makers - including notoriously non standard compliant Apple - to use standardized USB cables/plugs for chargers. good for consumers, good for the environment. it has not lead to the downfall of mobile device makers or stifled innovation. 

whenever an industry cannot decide on and adhere to a non-proprietary, open standard, lawmakers should step in and force them ... for consumer products sold b2c. not for b2b products or "made to measure" goods and services of course. 

i would welcome a world where lens mounts on ILCs adhere to a common, open standard. of course that standard can be adapted and changed, if there is significant enough inn ovation to justify it and companies involved agree on it - see ISO norms. no problem for innovation and competition.


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## PGSanta (Sep 26, 2018)

fullstop said:


> for consumer products i like legally enforced standardization. i still praise the day when EU finally stepped in and legally obliged all (consumer) mobile device makers - including notoriously non standard compliant Apple - to use standardized USB cables/plugs for chargers. good for consumers, good for the environment. it has not lead to the downfall of mobile device makers or stifled innovation.
> 
> whenever an industry cannot decide on and adhere to a non-proprietary, open standard, lawmakers should step in and force them ... for consumer products sold b2c. not for b2b products or "made to measure" goods and services of course.
> 
> i would welcome a world where lens mounts on ILCs adhere to a common, open standard. of course that standard can be adapted and changed, if there is significant enough inn ovation to justify it and companies involved agree on it - see ISO norms. no problem for innovation and competition.




Here's the problem, it has stifled innovation; even within your own example. Magsafe, Apple's incredibly awesome and useful charging port had to be ditched in favor of USBc. Just because it made sorting wires out for a bunch of people doesn't mean it's progress. That's the problem with short sighted market intrusions like you're supporting, sure, it may SEEM like you're getting a lot of convenience out of standardization, but in the long run it absolutely does squash market innovation; there is a boat load of economic research that supports the conclusion.

E.U. regulation is often more about politics than economics, and they are very willing to "regulate" industries where foreign competitors (including U.S. firms) are dominant. Consumer electronics, media, software, communications, internet tech, etc.


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## Quirkz (Sep 26, 2018)

PGSanta said:


> Here's the problem, it has stifled innovation; even within your own example. Magsafe, Apple's incredibly awesome and useful charging port had to be ditched in favor of USBc. Just because it made sorting wires out for a bunch of people doesn't mean it's progress. That's the problem with short sighted market intrusions like you're supporting, sure, it may SEEM like you're getting a lot of convenience out of standardization, but in the long run it absolutely does squash market innovation; there is a boat load of economic research that supports the conclusion.
> 
> E.U. regulation is often more about politics than economics, and they are very willing to "regulate" industries where foreign competitors (including U.S. firms) are dominant. Consumer electronics, media, software, communications, internet tech, etc.



And usb charging is a far cry from camera mounts. What standard? Small micro 4/3’s size mount? Or what about medium format mount?


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## tron (Oct 6, 2018)

fullstop said:


> sigma art sh*t will only work on EOS R as long as Canon lets them ... the moment they want to shut them down, they can ... and will.


The more reasons for someone to not switch to R


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## tron (Oct 6, 2018)

And here we start....

Tamron issues warning about Nikon Z7 compatibility

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0197856033/tamron-issues-warning-about-nikon-z7-compatibility

But it maybe just mean that it is a Tamron specific issue that can be corrected via a Tamron firmware upgrade.

We will see...


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