# Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 28, 2014)

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<p><a href="http://www.eoshd.com/content/12310/canon-4k-refresh-c200-c400-coming-nab" target="_blank">EOSHD</a> has posted about the possibility of an EOS C200 and EOS C400 for NAB 2014 in April.</p>
<p>According to EOSHD’s source, Canon will introduce the Cinema EOS C200 as a new entry level 4K camera, and the semi-pro Cinema EOS C400 sitting under the EOS C500.</p>
<p><strong>CR’s Take

</strong>We have it from pretty good sources that Canon is announcing a few things, but not any cameras. However, there’s always a possibility that Canon has kept the existence of a C200 & C400 to a very small and select group of people and the other goodies are for a broader audience.</p>
<p>We’ve heard absolutely nothing about a C200 and C400, however that doesn’t remove the possibility of their existence, as this site isn’t the first place cinema people go.</p>
<p>The other possibility is these cameras could receive “development announcement” status and wouldn’t be part of the regular product announcement process.</p>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://www.eoshd.com/content/12310/canon-4k-refresh-c200-c400-coming-nab" target="_blank">EOSHD</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## IWLP (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

The biggest problem I have with this is the 200 cited as "a new entry-level 4K camera." The c100 was quite neutered in a number of ways compared to the 300, and I can't imagine Canon taking that big of a step on the lowest end of the line.

I'm really hoping for an upgraded C100, but with the recent dual-pixel AF firmware update, the timing would be odd to me to hard announce a new camera a couple months after that.

Of course, maybe the problem here is that I'm actually _thinking_ about what Canon will do, which generally seems to yield less-than-realistic results.


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## leGreve (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

How peculiar... I had one of those nights where all you dream about is work.... And in yesterdays dream I was working on a C400....
Gotta love syncronicity...


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## schmidtfilme (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

What I am personally hoping for is a camera that does video and pictures better together in one. Therefore it should have an OLED viewfinder of high quality. At the moment my 5DM3 is still the best for this but I really don't like the big Zacuto Z-Finder that I have to use in order to make it useable for video. Maybe one day...


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## transpo1 (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

This rumor sounds too good to be true for us video folks, but let's see what the future holds...

One thing is if the C200 is real and is another AVCHD camera, I'll throw something out the window. --> Pro Res or MXF, please


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## Tugela (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

So, basically, what you guys are saying is that they can't develop a new camera since it might interfere with the sales of their old obsolete camera?

When is it ok to develop a new camera? two thousand years from now?

Surely it makes more sense to produce a new modern camera that replaces the old obsolete camera? And do it right now.


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## Tugela (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



transpo1 said:


> This rumor sounds too good to be true for us video folks, but let's see what the future holds...
> 
> One thing is if the C200 is real and is another AVCHD camera, I'll throw something out the window. --> Pro Res or MXF, please



Why would Canon develop a new camera that is obsolete compared to competitors new cameras? I do not think that would happen.


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## mkabi (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > This rumor sounds too good to be true for us video folks, but let's see what the future holds...
> ...



Because they don't want to create something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2415014,00.asp

Or something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDisc
The Last Laserdisc: Are LaserDisc Players the way of the future? (1992)

The majority has not bought into 4K yet.
Only the minority has bought into it, the Cinema industry and the independent filmmaker crowd does not constitute the majority.

But its the same as how the majority did not buy into the MiniDisc or the LaserDisc, I doubt you even remember those disc formats (thats how minor it was).


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## ajfotofilmagem (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



mkabi said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...


I walked into a time machine, while watching this 1992 report. It gives us a lesson, showing that not just have the best picture possible, but it takes practicality and convenience. I hear people talking about how 4K will revolutionize the market, but one must admit that the BluRay does not actually replaced the DVD, and maybe it will never happen. Why? Simply because the BluRay burner appliance (domestic model) is far from being popular. I have a full HD TV and a BluRay player, but have not bought any BluRay disc yet.

Movie producers should invest in 4K, but nothing changes for the consumer as a domestic media that support 4K does not exist, offering practicality and convenient cost.


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## Tugela (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



mkabi said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



High end cameras are not marketed to your "majority", they are marketed to people who have bought into 4k already. No one is saying that they are going to start selling $300 cameras with 4k. But just because people who buy $300 cameras don't know what 4k is, does NOT mean that people who buy $2000 cameras don't either.


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## Tugela (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

And, for those still living in the stone age who think that 4K is not for the masses, what is this then?

http://www.shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/HX-A500H

A $399 camera that shoots 4K. And who is it directed at? No less than the masses themselves!!

Some of you guys need to catch up with the modern world.


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## Midphase (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

Whatever Canon announces at NAB, it will likely be way more expensive than everyone thinks it should be, and way underpowered compared to the competition....weirdly enough it will sell like hotcakes!


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## syder (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> So, basically, what you guys are saying is that they can't develop a new camera since it might interfere with the sales of their old obsolete camera?
> 
> When is it ok to develop a new camera? two thousand years from now?
> 
> Surely it makes more sense to produce a new modern camera that replaces the old obsolete camera? And do it right now.



Oh right... So the non-4k C300 is obsolete. Perhaps you should tell the oscar nominated camera crews who were using it as a B cam on films nominated for best film and best cinmeatography.

And come to think of it, the Alexa isn't 4k so that must also be obsolete. Despite being the most popular camera for both film and tv.

But hey, I'm sure you make far better films and so need cutting edge gear unlike those clueless noobs.


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## Don Haines (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> So, basically, what you guys are saying is that they can't develop a new camera since it might interfere with the sales of their old obsolete camera?
> 
> When is it ok to develop a new camera? two thousand years from now?
> 
> Surely it makes more sense to produce a new modern camera that replaces the old obsolete camera? And do it right now.


And that's why Canon will not put touch screens on a Rebel, why the 6D does not have built in GPS or WiFi, why the digic6 was not introduced in a P/S camera, and why dual pixel did not debut in the 70D.  if they were to do this it would cut into sales of the 1DX! We will conveniently forget that for every 1DX they sell, thousands of Rebels are sold...

New tech debuts when it is ready. This bit about interfering with sales of a "higher end" camera is garbage. If it were true then it would be only the top end cameras that introduce new technology.... Yet the opposite is true. Top end cameras do not get new tech until it is tried and true.


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## Lawliet (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Don Haines said:


> New tech debuts when it is ready.



Or from a update schedule POV - We get a new entry level every year, but trice that time between top level devices. The competition would love the idea of reliable top down trickle only progression. Even more then the current pace of new releases.


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## Don Haines (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> And, for those still living in the stone age who think that 4K is not for the masses, what is this then?
> 
> http://www.shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/HX-A500H
> 
> ...


I have had a GoPro for over a year... It shoots 4K video..... And now there are cell phones coming out that shoot 4K.


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## mkabi (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



dilbert said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



EDITTED TO ADD: If there is an "affordable DSLR" camera released by Canon tomorrow with 4K & "1080/60-120p", I might be one of the first to buy it. In fact, I'm actually holding out till Photokina before I start buying new gear.

Look, if you're so into 4K video, and you want it cheap... there is BlackMagic 4K for $3000...
The best part is that you dont' have to sell your gear to get into it cause BlackMagic has EF mount so all your Canon lenses will work with it.

Why is it that people that are complaining about Canon needing 4K, can't look beyond Canon?
If you like what Panasonic has to offer, and you are really tempted then go for the switch.
Stop b!tchen and getta buyen!


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## mkabi (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Don Haines said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > And, for those still living in the stone age who think that 4K is not for the masses, what is this then?
> ...



You know what this tells us though, given the example given by Tugela (the panasonic HX-A500H) or the GoPro or that cell phones can record 4K... that 4K video and slow-motion doesn't involve much... it doesn't have to be so bulky and it doesn't take up much space on a DSLR or any camera.

And, I would be disappointed if Canon didn't release something... but not enough to go b!tchen on a forum about it.


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## AndreeOnline (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

[quote author=Canon Rumors]EOSHD has posted about the possibility of an EOS C200 and EOS C400 for NAB 2014 in April.
According to EOSHD’s source, Canon will introduce the Cinema EOS C200 as a new entry level 4K camera, and the semi-pro Cinema EOS C400 sitting under the EOS C500.
[/quote]

You probably don't want to give EOSHD credit enough to warrant this type of article.

If you read is article, it's obvious that he doesn't even believe it himself. It's easy to backtrack the actual Twitter discussion. The user @schweinert offhandedly speculated/wished? for C200/C400 a couple of days ago. Then, over a couple of tweets he firmed up his wording into more of a statement, but it seems completely sourceless. Only his own opinion of what Canon "ought" to do.

Andrew Reid at EOSHD then ran with the idea and posted an "article" as an open question: "could this happen?". The purpose is, of course, strictly to generate traffic to his site. 

Andrew doesn't have the objectivity or integrity to warrant this kind of attention.


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## Policar (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

Canon is promoting 4k everything in their cinema camera literature despite having primarily 1080p cameras. The difficulty is that Canon's audience WANTS 1080p. The reason the Alexa and CX00 are successful in tv is because they integrate into familiar workflows. But there is money to be made by upgrading to 4k. The sensor Canon is using is already a 4k sensor. This kind of an upgrade is not out of the realm of possibility, odd as it seems. The F3 uses a prosumer codec at 1080p... F5 has 4k in some weird proprietary wrapper to stave of "it's not future-proof" claims and make good literature and 1080p prores/dnxhd, which is what networks actually require. That's the step Canon would be smart to make and they don't even need to change the sensor. 



Midphase said:


> Whatever Canon announces at NAB, it will likely be way more expensive than everyone thinks it should be, and way underpowered compared to the competition....weirdly enough it will sell like hotcakes!



Exactly. Canon and Arri are taking cues from Apple... expensive, conservative design with some intermittent real innovation. And very very high prices for the specs. More Arri than Canon. Canon needs to get its menu systems under control! Messy!


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## Tugela (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



mkabi said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Because the BM cameras are not practical (and, in any case, if you follow the boards on their products, their QC leaves a LOT to be desired apparently), while Panasonic's camera is not designed to work with Canon lenses. Yes, I know you can get some adapter to hack it, but the only lenses the new AF works fully with are Panasonic's own lenses.

For those living in the Canon ecosystem, we want a Canon version of the GH4. Make some other camera for the troglodytes who want still functions only, but give the rest of us the functionality of a GH4 (and make it better than the GH4!).


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## Tugela (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



syder said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > So, basically, what you guys are saying is that they can't develop a new camera since it might interfere with the sales of their old obsolete camera?
> ...



We keep on hearing this Oscar nominated bla bla bla. What the people who say this don't point out (or apparently unaware of) is that those movies were made YEARS ago. You know, when their were not a lot of 4K options around, and those that were were relatively untested technology. If they had capable professional and reliable 4K products freely available then, they would have used those. Professional movie producers are not stupid, they know that to future proof their productions they need to be able to capture in the best quality they can.

Silent movies once completely dominated the Oscar nominations (or would have).....does that mean that "professional" movie producers have no interest in sound? That is basically what you are saying.


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## mkabi (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> Because the BM cameras are not practical (and, in any case, if you follow the boards on their products, their QC leaves a LOT to be desired apparently), while Panasonic's camera is not designed to work with Canon lenses. Yes, I know you can get some adapter to hack it, but the only lenses the new AF works fully with are Panasonic's own lenses.
> 
> For those living in the Canon ecosystem, we want a Canon version of the GH4. Make some other camera for the troglodytes who want still functions only, but give the rest of us the functionality of a GH4 (and make it better than the GH4!).



You can (of course) *sell* your Canon gear and buy into Panasonic gear...
And, if you're still being stubborn... you have a few other options...

You can buy C500 or 1DC... too expensive?
Editted to add: You can get a used RED ONE with EF mount for around $7000... if you go for this option, I and most of the cinematography community will actually pat you on your back and say "way to go.." you can even rent it out for $200 per day/weekend.

And lastly, you can always buy the 5D3 and hack it with Magic Lantern?

And, with video... you shouldn't really depend on AF anyway... its all about the MF...

The image quality of the GH4 is going to be severely compressed when recording in 4K...
How does this make sense to you? 4K is recorded at 100Mbps, whereas 1080p is recorded at 200Mbps... lossy compression in my POV. 
http://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-g-compact-system-cameras-dslm/dmc-gh4heb.specs.html



Tugela said:


> We keep on hearing this Oscar nominated bla bla bla. What the people who say this don't point out (or apparently unaware of) is that those movies were made YEARS ago. You know, when their were not a lot of 4K options around, and those that were were relatively untested technology. If they had capable professional and reliable 4K products freely available then, they would have used those. Professional movie producers are not stupid, they know that to future proof their productions they need to be able to capture in the best quality they can.
> 
> Silent movies once completely dominated the Oscar nominations (or would have).....does that mean that "professional" movie producers have no interest in sound? That is basically what you are saying.



You're sleeping at the wheel my friend... not years ago... within the last year --->
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19169.0

You know whats been around for "years."
The RED ONE since 2007
The RED Epic since 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema_Camera_Company
Speaking of which, the Red DSMC is a DSLR killer according to that wiki link... if you care about DXO mark scores it beats out the D800! With a score of 101... wait... what? A video camera company making a stills camera that beats out the D800 with a sensor smaller than the D800... hell no...

Surely, the multi-million dollar production companies can afford those cameras to shoot the 'oscar nominated movies' named in the link above the wiki link... correct me if I'm wrong.
BTW, most movies from back in the day... are recorded at greater formats than 4K... There were and continues to be large format (i.e. 70mm) panavision film cameras. We are all just playing catch up...


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## syder (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> syder said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



Wow... Talk about clueless... Keep digging that hole there ;-)

The 4K Red One was released in 2007. The first feature shot on it was released in January 2009. Red has been tested and working on movie sets for longer than the Canon cinema series has existed.

The Alexa wasn't released until 2010. And doesn't do 4K. And is far more popular than Red Cameras for film and tv. You're absolutely right when you say the pro's aren't stupid. So why then haven't they been shooting everything in 4k for the last 7 years? 

Seeing as the 6K Epic Dragon has been out for almost a year now how could anyone possibly not be using it (shouldn't this mean that your 4K dream camera is already obsolete)?


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## mkabi (Mar 29, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



syder said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > syder said:
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Correction - Red Epic 617 Monstro records at 28K since spring of 2010, so why haven't we propelled to that magnitude since then?


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## Tugela (Mar 30, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



mkabi said:


> You can (of course) *sell* your Canon gear and buy into Panasonic gear...
> And, if you're still being stubborn... you have a few other options...
> 
> You can buy C500 or 1DC... too expensive?
> ...



Buy and selling all your lenses every time a new camera comes out from a different manufacturer is not practical. There is no reason why Canon cannot produce a video/still hybrid like every one else. Because "it might interfere with their high end professional sales" is a ridiculous idea.

I don't want to spend 20K or rent someone else's camera - I'm an amateur, not a professional. I expect that a camera company that claims to provide competitive products for the high end of the market to do just that. Nothing unreasonable about that. In any case, those professional cameras are not suitable as general purpose imaging systems (with the GH4 as an example of the modern imaging system suitable for the advanced amateur). What the troglodytes don't understand is that the average Joe who buys an expensive camera (or even a cheap camera for that matter) expects it to do everything, and do everything reasonably well. They don't want to carry half a dozen different cameras around with them for different purposes. In fact, this is the very reason why so much effort has gone into hacking video modes in SLR cameras, because the users *WANT* that exact general all purpose functionality. There are the "purists" who want a dedicated camera, but they are a minority market that is shrinking. Something that Nikon is going to find out.

Why would I need to buy an old camera and hack it? Far simpler for Canon to provide that functionality since it is obvious it is doable. There is no reason not to. What Panasonic is doing (and Sony as well) is the way of the future for high end amateur cameras. Nikon has condemned themselves into a niche that will slowly destroy them. If Canon do the same thing, they will go the same way as Nikon.

FYI, if you are shooting set pieces in a studio you use manual focus, but dynamic video shot in camcorder mode is done using autofocus. So, it is necessary for a general purpose imaging camera to have fast auto focus that can track objects accurately.

FYI, the Panasonic can deliver uncompressed 10 bit 4K output from it's HDMI port, so compression is not a factor if you have an external recorder.


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## Tugela (Mar 30, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



mkabi said:


> You're sleeping at the wheel my friend... not years ago... within the last year --->
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19169.0
> 
> You know whats been around for "years."
> ...



The movies might have been nominated for Oscars last year, but they were *made* years ago. When you see a movie is not when it was shot. Most of those movies were probably shot around 2011/12, which is about when the Alexa would have been at it's primacy. Moviemakers used that camera because it was the most reliable at the time. What are the using now however, and what will they be using next year? I bet it will not be an Alexa.

The Dragon may score the highest DXO rating so far, but it is not on the market yet, so nothing can be shot with it. But, when stuff is, you will need to wait for the 2017/2018 Oscars to see the results.


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## Policar (Mar 30, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > You're sleeping at the wheel my friend... not years ago... within the last year --->
> ...



Productions move much faster than this... Transformers 4 is using a few Epic Dragons and will be released this summer. I don't think DPs know or care what DXO is... they shoot tests/screen tests. Images are relevant... numbers... not much. 

The Alexa is still gaining traction. Last ASC mag had more Alexa than all other cameras combined. Almost no Epic but Dragon will give it a boost. Some film. Lots of go pro and CX00 as b cams. No FX5, but Sony has a good product and their inclusion of prores might mean more adoption in tv.

You are correct that the Alexa is very reliable and that does contribute to its popularity. I have seen two go down, but overall it is the best there is by far. Post houses (in tv mostly) hate dealing with Red footage. A lot of tv is shot in 422 prores, not even 444 let alone raw. Speed and cost are important once you bypass "good enough" and 1080p/2k still is and will be for a while (for most productions not going to IMAX).


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## Tugela (Mar 30, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

I live in Vancouver, where many movies are shot. Those that I have seen scenes being shot for typically arrive in theaters about 2 years later, and Oscars are the following year. Production decisions are made well before shooting, so we are talking about a three year lead time, perhaps more, before an Oscar nomination. The equipment used on those shoots dates back that long. When you are talking about a 2014 Oscar nomination, you are looking at equipment from 2011 or earlier.


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## Policar (Mar 30, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> I live in Vancouver, where many movies are shot. Those that I have seen scenes being shot for typically arrive in theaters about 2 years later, and Oscars are the following year. Production decisions are made well before shooting, so we are talking about a three year lead time, perhaps more, before an Oscar nomination. The equipment used on those shoots dates back that long. When you are talking about a 2014 Oscar nomination, you are looking at equipment from 2011 or earlier.



The Alexa was released in April 2010. 

In 2011 Hugo (shot on the Alexa) won Best Cinematography.

Sorry, but I'm not sure living in Vancouver alone gives your opinions precedence over fact...


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## mkabi (Mar 31, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*

Sorry, I'm not trying to gang up on you, Tugela....

You can't push what you WANT on others, you want this... you want that... How do you know that everyone wants that? Even if you refer to Magic Lantern and that whole society...
Granted people at ML are amazing, but put their efforts in any camera system and they should pull the same results. They only do the things they do cause thats what they can "afford" to do. Even those people at ML, are using existing technologies to do it, if Canon releases a 5DC at $6000 tomorrow. People will still buy a 5D3 and hack it with ML. Be happy and be lucky that Canon is not suing ML for hacking their gear.




Tugela said:


> I live in Vancouver, where many movies are shot. Those that I have seen scenes being shot for typically arrive in theaters about 2 years later, and Oscars are the following year. Production decisions are made well before shooting, so we are talking about a three year lead time, perhaps more, before an Oscar nomination. The equipment used on those shoots dates back that long. When you are talking about a 2014 Oscar nomination, you are looking at equipment from 2011 or earlier.




But, you're not helping your case... already mentioned. The RED One and Red Epic has been around a lot longer than 2011. See my previous post.


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## Tugela (Mar 31, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Policar said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > I live in Vancouver, where many movies are shot. Those that I have seen scenes being shot for typically arrive in theaters about 2 years later, and Oscars are the following year. Production decisions are made well before shooting, so we are talking about a three year lead time, perhaps more, before an Oscar nomination. The equipment used on those shoots dates back that long. When you are talking about a 2014 Oscar nomination, you are looking at equipment from 2011 or earlier.
> ...



Hugo won an Oscar in 2012, not 2011. It was shot in mid 2010, a few months after the Alexa was released. Presumably they didn't go in blind with new equipment, so either they had experience with beta cameras prior to that, or the sequences shot with the camera were done very late in the production. Take planning phases of the project into account and you get roughly 2 years from start to Oscar.

Let us give another example: Tomorrowland....shot in the summer of 2013 (I know, because I walked around on the set - parts of it were shot a few hundred meters from where I work), will be released in May 2015. In the unlikely event it gets an Oscar nomination, it would be up for the 2016 Oscars. Planning for the production would have started earlier than that.

:


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## Tugela (Mar 31, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



mkabi said:


> But, you're not helping your case... already mentioned. The RED One and Red Epic has been around a lot longer than 2011. See my previous post.



My case is that the high end consumer videographer is ready for 4K, especially once they see what those cameras actually put out.....and yes it is happening right now. It is not just my opinion. When I read some of the comments on this forum I am left wondering if many here really know what is going on in the video side of cameras. The counter case is that no, people who spend $2k or more on their cameras don't want 4K and are content with 1080p. I call BS on that, and to be quite honest, I am shocked that people on this forum would even think that.

The real argument to make, is that professionals who take on paying projects don't see a demand for more than 1080p, and consequently don't feel the need to upgrade to 4K. BUT, that is completely irrelevant to the high end amateur market, who want to produce the highest quality they can display and are not being paid for it. For them, the only client is themselves and their own eyes.

How long the Red cameras have been around is irrelevant to that.


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## mkabi (Mar 31, 2014)

*Re: Cinema EOS C200 & C400 at NAB? [CR1]*



Tugela said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > But, you're not helping your case... already mentioned. The RED One and Red Epic has been around a lot longer than 2011. See my previous post.
> ...



Just say those 2 lines... you don't need to convolute it with so many words. 

In fact, you can say high end consumer/amateur market is ready for 28K... if they can afford it, no?


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