# Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 25, 2018)

```
Canon has released their 2018 Q1 financial results.</p>
<p><strong>Some photo gear related highlights:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Increase market share through sales expansion of new products, including mirrorless models</li>
<li>Improve product mix, and new product composition to raise profitability</li>
<li>As for interchangeable-lens cameras, we expect the market to continue to contract at a modest rate.</li>
<li>In the first quarter, although unit sales in the same period last year were at a high level, resulting from the resolution of shortages that arose following the Kumamoto earthquake in 2016, we posted 1.05 million in unit sales, limiting our decline to 3%.</li>
<li>As the market and our own sales were in line with our plan in the first quarter, we left our projection for the full year unchanged and still expect the market to decline 4% to 11 million units and our own sales to be 5.5 million units, which is in line with last year.</li>
<li>From a profit perspective, by raising the proportion of sales generated by new products and solidly expanding sales of high amateur models, we will improve product mix.</li>
<li>This is part of our full-lineup strategy to further stimulate demand for interchangeable-lens cameras and our aim to capture demand from users looking to move up in class in the future. Under this strategy, we consider the EOS M50 to be a driver of sales. It is the first of our entry-class models to feature 4K video and it incorporate the same AF functionality found in higher end models. This camera also realizes operability that makes it easy to enjoy taking pictures even for beginners. Through these kinds of new products we will stimulate demand and effect improvement in our market share.</li>
</ul>
<p>The full breakdown of Canon’s 2018 Q1 financials is after the break.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>Presentation Material</strong></p>
<a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2018-1QPresentation-Material.pdf" class="pdfemb-viewer" style="" data-width="max" data-height="max"  data-toolbar="bottom" data-toolbar-fixed="off">2018-1QPresentation-Material
</a>
<p><strong>2018 Q1 Results</strong></p>
<a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2018-1QResults.pdf" class="pdfemb-viewer" style="" data-width="max" data-height="max"  data-toolbar="bottom" data-toolbar-fixed="off">2018-1QResults
</a>
<p><strong>Speech Summary</strong></p>
<a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/conf2018q1e-sum.pdf" class="pdfemb-viewer" style="" data-width="max" data-height="max"  data-toolbar="bottom" data-toolbar-fixed="off">conf2018q1e-sum
</a>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
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## unfocused (Apr 25, 2018)

I'll leave it to those who are more capable to do the in-depth analysis, but once again, it seems that the cameras and features that many people on this forum complain about are the cameras and features that are driving profitability.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 25, 2018)

unfocused said:


> I'll leave it to those who are more capable to do the in-depth analysis, but once again, it seems that the cameras and features that many people on this forum complain about are the cameras and features that are driving profitability.



That's always been the case, Even if the markup is high on 1 series cameras, the quantity sold is low. They churn out entry level cameras by the boatload, and now production of the cameras and lenses is mostly totally automated, so profits per unit are very good.

Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.


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## melgross (Apr 25, 2018)

It’s not bad, actually. While first quarter is down, they expect a modest increase for the full year in sales. They seem to be emphasizing growth with new hardware and new models, including mirrorless, which they specifically mentioned.

Nikon seems to be more in hunker down mode. It will be interesting to see what their financials will say.


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## Talys (Apr 25, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I'll leave it to those who are more capable to do the in-depth analysis, but once again, it seems that the cameras and features that many people on this forum complain about are the cameras and features that are driving profitability.
> ...



Pretty much that. My 80D is still my go to camera for a lot of stuff, and I can't really imagine much that they could build to make it massively better. It doesn't mean I won't buy another camera, but that's mostly because I want another body that's similar to 80D, not because I need more tech. 

Interesting that profits are actually _up_, despite the decline in sales.


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## KirkD (Apr 25, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.


They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.


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## Talys (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
> ...



Although there may be a short bump when Canon releases a full frame mirrorless, I think this will have a tiny impact on overall sales numbers, because there are a lot more Rebels and M's sold than there will ever be of $2000-$3000 cameras. Yes, anyone reading this forum will at least be interested in them, but for the vast majority of camera-buyers, unless full frame drops down to $500 bodies, it's not going to happen, because their ILC budget with everything in -- including a couple of lenses -- is in the three digits.

I don't think that Sigma Art lenses have much impact on Canon's sales. There aren't a ton of these sold, and a lot of people rarely consider third-party lenses anyways, for various reasons.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away...



Which break away is that? Meanwhile, back here in the real world or most of us live, Canon FF ILCs are outselling Sony FF ILCs. I welcome you to join us in the real world, but of course you are free to continue living in your fantasy land.


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## KirkD (Apr 25, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Which break away is that? ... I welcome you to join us in the real world, but of course you are free to continue living in your fantasy land.



You may wish to me to a semi-pro full frame mirrorless camera that Canon has right now, then compare that to the Sony A7III if you wish to have a wake-up call.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Which break away is that? ... I welcome you to join us in the real world, but of course you are free to continue living in your fantasy land.
> ...



Sorry, I'm not the one who's dreaming. You stated that Canon's sales will continue drop until they release a FF MILC to catch up to Sony's 'break-away', yet Canon FF ILCs are already outselling Sony's 'break-away FF MILCs'. 

Don't worry, I'm sure that Canon will make exactly the camera you desire...in your dreams. Don't bother waking up, apparently reality is too hard for you to grasp anyway.


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## unfocused (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.



Exhibit A in proving my point that too many forum dwellers are delusional and promote viewpoints and opinions that are completely at odds with reality.


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## KirkD (Apr 25, 2018)

unfocused said:


> Exhibit A in proving my point that too many forum dwellers are delusional and promote viewpoints and opinions that are completely at odds with reality.


Your failure to point to a Canon full frame mirrorless camera is affirmation of how Canon has fallen behind Sony in that category. Furthermore, Canon sales dropped by 2% last year and another 1.2% in this first quarter. In the same time period, Sony sales increased by 11%. Sony is now the #2 Camera manufacturer, pulling ahead of Nikon and topped only by Canon. Analysts are forecasting 2018 as Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game. As far as low end cameras go, Canon is doing well, but at the semi-pro level, the absence of a FF mirrorless that can even begin to match Sony's A7III fairly screams "catch up".


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## zim (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Exhibit A in proving my point that too many forum dwellers are delusional and promote viewpoints and opinions that are completely at odds with reality.
> ...



It's pretty clear that Canon are building their mirrorless market from the bottom up. 

Why are Sony not #1 in the world right now as Canon has no matching FF product and hasn't for quite some time?
11% of what?


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## Talys (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Which break away is that? ... I welcome you to join us in the real world, but of course you are free to continue living in your fantasy land.
> ...



I think that full frame mirrorless is an important segment because there are customers who clearly want one. It is clearly not the only segment that matters, as Canon doesn't make one yet sells more cameras than Sony. 

I also think that it is a phenomenal marketing job by Sony, courting reviewers to convince people to want a full frame camera of any sort. Frankly, I think that many people shopping for a camera are much better served by APSC, as they are far cheaper, have far les expensive high quality lenses, and fit the criteria of 'small and light' without breaking a sweat and are proportionately sized. 

Case in point, a recent review suggesting that the a7-3 is a great camera to recommend people as their first enthusiast camera. Say what? Why on earth would anyone spend $2000 + lens + flash + accessories if they don't know exactly what they are looking for out of a camera? Just go spend $500 on some APSC and figure it out, first. So what if your ISO 3200 photos are grainier?

I also really do not understand people who want a tiny camera and giant lenses, and even less so, people who want an expensive camera and junky but little lenses.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> Furthermore, Canon sales dropped by 2% last year and another 1.2% in this first quarter. In the same time period, Sony sales increased by 11%. Sony is now the #2 Camera manufacturer, pulling ahead of Nikon and topped only by Canon. Analysts are forecasting 2018 as Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game.



You keep using numbers. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 25, 2018)

I updated the post with the correct speech summary, Canon put the wrong one in the zip file.


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## DaviSto (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.



KirkD = King Canute.

Badge of honour for mindless bravery despite the facts


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## Adelino (Apr 25, 2018)

How can someone take a report that shows profits are up and turn it around to mean Canon are *******?


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 25, 2018)

Adelino said:


> How can someone take a report that shows profits are up and turn it around to mean Canon are *******?



"If Canon doesn't immediately make and launch [the camera I want with the features I want], they are *******."
_—Delusional Forum Dweller_


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## woodman411 (Apr 25, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Adelino said:
> 
> 
> > How can someone take a report that shows profits are up and turn it around to mean Canon are *******?
> ...



I blame dpreview. I like Sony products, but they have unreasonably elevated Sony and influenced so many people who really don't know much about cameras.


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## Woody (Apr 25, 2018)

Using Canon's FY (Apr 2017 to Mar 2018) numbers, we have:
- total worldwide DILC shipment from CIPA = 11,407,112
- Canon's worldwide DILC shipment = 5.5 mil
- so Canon's market share in this period = 48%

Pretty amazing.


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## rjbray01 (Apr 25, 2018)

I just got back from a 2 week holiday of tourist destinations in Italy

Saw thousands of Nikon and Canon DSLRs and Mirrorless 

Eventually I managed to find a single person with a Sony A7 - the only one of the when holiday

I chatted to the owner - turned out he was a professional who had been "given the camera by Sony to see how I get on with it". He didn't seem at all convinced and seemed happier with his 1DXmk2

It's only anecdotal evidence but Italy was jammed full of tourists and the totally lack of Sony "in the real world" genuinely shocked me

It seems to me that Canon and Nikon have got plenty of time and momentum on their side at least ...


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## Mikehit (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game.



Canon 50% of the market share, Sony 30-ish%. Canon droppiong 2% per year, Sony increasing 11% per year.
Sony to be #1 by this time next year?
Please show the the analyst's analysis that you refer to.


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## kkamena (Apr 25, 2018)

KirkD said:


> Your failure to point to a Canon full frame mirrorless camera is affirmation of how Canon has fallen behind Sony in that category. Furthermore, Canon sales dropped by 2% last year and another 1.2% in this first quarter. In the same time period, Sony sales increased by 11%. Sony is now the #2 Camera manufacturer, pulling ahead of Nikon and topped only by Canon. Analysts are forecasting 2018 as Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game. As far as low end cameras go, Canon is doing well, but at the semi-pro level, the absence of a FF mirrorless that can even begin to match Sony's A7III fairly screams "catch up".




Do you have the information for the "Analysts are forecasting 2018 as Given the market analysts graphs"? I am curious because the digital camera market is an amazing case study that I like to follow (I am a business nerd that likes taking photos) and what you are saying kind of goes against most of the data out there as just look at the past posts on this site. Even if Sony was #1 in MILC (which they are not Canon is), that market space is about 1/2 the size of DSLR market space (which Canon has an overwhelming majority in. Canon's 2% decrease in sales is less then the contracting of ILC cameras meaning the are gaining market share so.... they are number 1 with more market share now than a year ago. 

What I truly find amazing is how well Canon knows the market. the fact that they made no adjustments to year end projections show that everything is going right in line with their business plan, generally good thing.


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## tmc784 (Apr 25, 2018)

I wish there is a FF ( don't care mirrorless or mirror ) camera with 50MP, IBIS, 4K video come on market 2018.


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## Talys (Apr 25, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> KirkD said:
> 
> 
> > Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game.
> ...



Sentences beginning with "Analysts show" bear as much weight as those qualified by, "Some people say" 8) 

But anyways, comparing the Canon numbers to Sony... Want some numbers? Here, take a look at Sony sales, worldwide, by business segment:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/297533/sony-sales-worldwide-by-business-segment/

Imaging Products & Solutions is the green wedge. In billions of $USD
2012 - 7.16
2013 - 7.77
2014 - 7.20
2015 - 6.00
2016 - 6.29
2017 - 5.18

WAIT. Imaging dropped by 17%? But I thought they were going to take over the world. Surely this is Fake News. What is this BS website anyways. Why don't we go to the source?

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/stock/shareholders_meeting/Meeting100/100_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf

Page 6 from Sony. Imaging (in millions of Yen), excluding intersegment:
2015 - 696.89
2016 - 677.23
2017 - 571.50

No, that's because it's a mix of other stuff. I mean, imaging is printers and all sorts of other things. FAKE NEWS.

So let's go to Page 10, and look at the breakdown of Imaging - Still and Video Cameras (millions of Yen):

2015 - 478,099
2016 - 428,777
2017 - 351,834

So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025. Because, some analysts say, a US$3,000 camera kit (FF body + lens) that needs a body refresh every 18 or so months is where the money is (_and you thought lightroom subscriptions were expensive_).


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## Woody (Apr 25, 2018)

Talys said:


> So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.



Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.


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## Mikehit (Apr 25, 2018)

Woody said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.
> ...


And with the aggressive pricing of the latest A7 models it will be interesting to see what that does to their revenue.


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## woodman411 (Apr 26, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > Talys said:
> ...



Sony has to aggressively price their bodies because their lenses are so expensive - $2200 for the mainstay 24-70 f/2.8, and a whopping $2600 for the 70-200 f/2.8. Maybe that's where the profits are, because that's significantly more than Canon, and Canon's versions are better.


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## fingerstein (Apr 26, 2018)

Probably Canon an Nikon are still the best brands in the minds of regular people. But there are a lot of bad reviews concerning Canon's cameras (between 1500-3000$). For professional photographers/videographers 1DX was there for a long time as a perfect hybrid camera. But a big disappointment where 6D2 and 5D4. Maybe even the last mirrorless M50 might be considered "a fail". I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too... So maybe the start was slow and the competition still need to perform in the field of their brand's power. These YouTube evangelists might just start changing things. I hope they will. Competition is always good.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 26, 2018)

fingerstein said:


> I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too...



Anecdotes aren't data. The data — i.e., market share — render your anecdotes meaningless.


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## scyrene (Apr 26, 2018)

KirkD said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
> ...



This is a joke, right?


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## scyrene (Apr 26, 2018)

fingerstein said:


> Probably Canon an Nikon are still the best brands in the minds of regular people. But there are a lot of bad reviews concerning Canon's cameras (between 1500-3000$). For professional photographers/videographers 1DX was there for a long time as a perfect hybrid camera. But a big disappointment where 6D2 and 5D4. Maybe even the last mirrorless M50 might be considered "a fail". I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too... So maybe the start was slow and the competition still need to perform in the field of their brand's power. These YouTube evangelists might just start changing things. I hope they will. Competition is always good.



: : :


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## BillB (Apr 26, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > Talys said:
> ...



We really don't know whether Sony is making money on their high end cameras when front ends costs are considered. They have generated a big internet presence for their fullframe ILC's, but how is that translating into camera sales and effect on the bottom line? At some point, cost management may become a big issue for Sony's camera business, just as it has for other Sony projects over the years.


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## BillB (Apr 26, 2018)

scyrene said:


> KirkD said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Doubt that it is a joke. More likely another internet buzzard channeling DPR-driven cyber reality.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 26, 2018)

scyrene said:


> KirkD said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



It's the alternate reality that results from one too many punchlines to the head.


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## Random Orbits (Apr 26, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > Talys said:
> ...



Didn't Sony publish their AF protocols? Without it, lens makes (Ziess and others) would not have introduced AF lenses into the ecosystem and Sony early would have had a tough time penetrating the market because of their limited lens ecosystem. But now, Sony has to compete more on the lens side for performance because they don't have a advantage in AF like Canon and Nikon do. It might be one reason why they must release a new body every 2 years.


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## sanj (Apr 26, 2018)

I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??

It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.


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## Adelino (Apr 26, 2018)

sanj said:


> It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.



It's a business not a photography charity. Would you invest in a business where the point of existence was to better any cause? I do contribute to charity but not through investments. Canon, Nikon, Sony would invest in coffee or rockets or beauty products if they had expertise to make money. Remember this article is discussing financial results and whether you like the results or not, Canon are making money in an increasingly difficult and shrinking market.


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## ethanz (Apr 26, 2018)

Adelino said:


> Remember this article is discussing financial results and whether you like the results or not, Canon are making money in an increasingly difficult and shrinking market.



That is the important thing. Canon is making money, at an increasing rate, while others apparently are not doing as well.


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## ethanz (Apr 26, 2018)

rjbray01 said:


> I just got back from a 2 week holiday of tourist destinations in Italy
> 
> Saw thousands of Nikon and Canon DSLRs and Mirrorless
> 
> ...



I was in Israel last week on vacation and saw the same thing. Lots of Canons (mostly lower end), some Nikons (I threw dirt at them), and maybe one Sony. I actually saw another person with a 1dx.


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## Talys (Apr 26, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> fingerstein said:
> 
> 
> > I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too...
> ...



I know a lot of people who voted for Hillary Clinton. Yet POTUS is, embarrassingly, of the male gender.



sanj said:


> I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.
> 
> It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??
> 
> It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.



Sure, they do. Sony absolutely deserves credit for pioneering full frame mirrorless cameras. On the other hand, they deserve criticism for releasing products that are so unfinished that they must release revisions in less than 2 years for flagship cameras.

Canon's 5D, 5D2, 5D3, and 5DIV cameras all seem like pretty substantial leaps from the prior camera and each one feels like a solid, working professional's tool, at it's initial release.

Sony's A7, A7M2, A7M3 all feel like a work in progress. It feels like you're paying to be an early beta tester, with Mark 3 being the first one that is "almost ready for prime time".

If Canon's first professional full-frame mirrorless product works like a professional's tool, I'd rather buy that, than the 3-4 generations of Sony cameras to get there. If it's not, I will criticize the Canon models also. But for people who have extra disposable income and like being a part of the process of "getting there", I'm happy for them. For me, it would be like buying three to four flagship video cards before I could play my video game smoothly -- no thanks, I'll be patient and wait til stuff is ironed out.

I do get the counter-argument for real hobbyists who love their Sony's: "This is so cool, I'll put up with the bugs, limitations, and caveats." But for me, every Sony FF MILC up to A7R2 just got in the way of photography; every camera since A9 has been significantly better, and is the first that I would consider worth buying -- but they still feel unfinished. 

I do not agree that people would be just blindly buying Canon cameras if Sony did not make MILCs. I think Sony is adding to the pie, which is a good thing. I mean, look: I'm happy with my Canon DSLRs. They're mature cameras that do everything I want. I don't _need_ another camera body, and I'm not eager to just spend $2,000 - $3,000 just to have another gadget. 

Canon can keep iterating; it doesn't mean I'll necessarily buy a camera unless one of mine gets damaged or wears out, or unless the new one offers something I really want.


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## unfocused (Apr 26, 2018)

sanj said:


> I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.



Your first statement is true and Sony should and does get credit for that. 

The second statement is something that no one on this forum has access to the information to know. We simply cannot know if the customers are coming from Canon's base of customers, or from somewhere else. What creates arguments here is that too many people assume that all or most of these customers represent lost sales for Canon, and the objective evidence we have (sales figures, market share, etc.) do not indicate that is the case.

It is also a known fact that full-frame cameras as a whole do not represent the bulk of the DSLR market. Too many people overstate the importance of full frame mirrorless simply because that is what they happen to be interested in. 



sanj said:


> It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??



That's a reasonable assumption, although we do not know for sure. 



sanj said:


> It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.



Those who say that have a twisted view of how business works. A company can only make money if it provides goods or services that people want and need. Companies are not charities, but they would be idiots to ignore ignore the demands of the marketplace. 

Your statement would be more accurate if it read: It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders , so that it can stay in business and earn enough profits to pay its employees and suppliers and earn a reasonable return for investors, so that investors choose to buy its stock, rather than choose other companies. and not in Producing technology that will help the cause of photography, is important if there are customers who are willing to pay for that technology at a price that will give the company a reasonable return on its investment, so the company can stay in business and continue to invest in additional technology that will help the cause of photography.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 26, 2018)

sanj said:


> I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.



they may have purchased Olympus, fuji or others. usually if you look on DPR, the mirrorless fans have a TON of mirrorless camera bodies from multiple manufacturers.

Also, Sony didn't start full frame mirrorless btw.


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## sanj (Apr 26, 2018)

All interesting comments. Thank you


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## gmon750 (Apr 26, 2018)

unfocused said:


> I'll leave it to those who are more capable to do the in-depth analysis, but once again, it seems that the cameras and features that many people on this forum complain about are the cameras and features that are driving profitability.



It's like airline tickets. First-class gets all the glory, but it's the low-end coach seats that are the bread & butter of the industry.


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## gmon750 (Apr 26, 2018)

KirkD said:


> They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.



The #1 seller of mirrorless cameras happens to be Canon - right now.


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## Valvebounce (Apr 27, 2018)

Hi Folks. 
I have irrefutable evidence that people are leaving Canon and buying Sony, at the LCE camera show in Southampton today I watched part of a Sony lecture, part of a conversation during the Q&A section, 
S = Sony educator, A = person in audience. 

S “Who shoots Sony?” 
A ”I do.”
S ”What do you have and for how long?”
A “A7III all of today, I switched systems here.”
S “Do you still use some of your old glass?”
A “No I swapped everything!”
S “That was brave! I have had my A7Something for a while now and I still use my older Sony as my main camera, I won’t use the new one for my main camera yet, too many menu options to get used to and I’m not comfortable that I have mastered them to a level where I trust myself not to make a mistake!”   

This is _*not*_ a direct quote, but _*paraphrased for brevity*_ and because I can’t remember the minutia of the discussion. 

Edit. 
Ok, no reaction! 
I can also verify that two people I overheard had tried Sony bodies with adapted lenses and did not like the Sony so had gone back to the native bodies for their lenses!  1 move to Sony, 2 leaving Sony but those body sales still count to Sony, I guess two somebodies got cheap low mileage Sony bodies! 
End edit. 

Cheers, Graham.


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