# Canon Cinema EOS C700 Coming in 2016 [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 31, 2016)

```
<p>We’re told that Canon will announce a new Cinema EOS camera the first week of September for IBC, which runs from September 8, 2016 until September 13, 2016 in Amsterdam.</p>
<p>Internally the camera is called the “C1” we’re told, but that it will not be called that when it is released, and it is not a follow-up to the Cinema EOS C500. If we had to guess again, we’re looking at a Cinema EOS C700.</p>
<p>We started talking about an true ARRI competitor as far back as 2014, and this appears to be that camera. This could be Canon’s version of the Amira.</p>
<p>The camera will employ a new Super35 sensor with a claimed dynamic range of 15 stops, the same sort of claim made of the C300 Mark II. The form factor will be different than the current Cinema EOS cameras. There will be likely be some kind of a shoulder mount.</p>
<p>We’re also told that the resolution will be slightly above 4K, but we don’t know exactly what it will be.</p>
<p>We’re told this camera will support anamorphic lenses, which <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-cinema-eos-37-5-100mm-t3-3-anamorphic-lens/">we’ve seen a patent for recently</a>.</p>
<p>Price wise, we’re probably looking at at least $30,000.</p>
<p>We have no idea what will become of the C500 follow-up, as it appears an 8K camera from Canon won’t be coming anytime soon.</p>
<p>As soon as we get more info, we’ll pass it on.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


----------



## jeffa4444 (May 31, 2016)

*Re: Canon Cinema EOS C700 Coming in 2016 [CR2]*

The Cinema EOS C700 was started as a dummy rumor along with fake literature in 2015. Im at a loss to understand why they would produce a 16x9 sensor and then push Anamorphic lenses you would affectively crop the 16X9 sensor to acheive this. 16.9 is 1.78.1 and anamorphic 2.39.1 hence why anamorphic is normally shot open gate or 4:3 (cinema not stills equivilent to half frame) 
Both Sony and Canon dont seem to understand Cinema whereas Arri and Red both do. If Canon were forward thinking the camera would cover Vistavision i.e. basically 36x24mm that has a diagonal of 43.26 and allowing for safe area is nominally 42mm diagonal this is where Red has gone.


----------



## Etienne (May 31, 2016)

How I wish it was a CR3 on a C100 mk III


----------



## bertzie (May 31, 2016)

Etienne said:


> How I wish it was a CR3 on a C100 mk III



The C100mk1 was out for 2 years. The C100mk2 has only been out a year and a half. We'll likely see a C500 replacement before a C100mk3.


----------



## Chaitanya (May 31, 2016)

with that Canon will have new high end camera to "protect" from onslaught of "cheaper" cameras.


----------



## Etienne (May 31, 2016)

bertzie said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > How I wish it was a CR3 on a C100 mk III
> ...



You're probably right. The C100 mk2 is not quite there. Full sensor DPAF, touchscreen (touch to focus), and a slomo mode and a 4K option would make the C100 really attractive.


----------



## gsealy (May 31, 2016)

Very interesting information. It further legitimizes Canon in the big boy arena. And new technologies they develop will flow down into the other cameras at some point. So this is a good thing.


----------



## gregory4000 (Jun 1, 2016)

Here's the problem. Arri is conservative on there camera specs.
If Arri boasts 14 to 15 stops, you get the 15. However, Canon will boast 15 stops and give you maybe 12.
Shame on you Canon, If you want to compete with the real professionals you can't puff up your product. Just sell to the semi professional who can't put $100K together for a camera system and are just fine with your product or Sony.


----------



## bgoyette (Jun 1, 2016)

gregory4000 said:


> Here's the problem. Arri is conservative on there camera specs.
> If Arri boasts 14 to 15 stops, you get the 15. However, Canon will boast 15 stops and give you maybe 12.
> Shame on you Canon, If you want to compete with the real professionals you can't puff up your product. Just sell to the semi professional who can't put $100K together for a camera system and are just fine with your product or Sony.



Ah Greg...Yes indeed, the 45k Arri Amira and the 75k Arri Alexa both can boast 14-15 stops of dynamic range, with remarkably low noise in the shadows. How it does this seems to have more to do with how it compresses the highlight range than anything. Everyone else in the market, Red, Sony, Canon, Panasonic et al, claim 14+ stops of Dynamic range and deliver it in exactly the same same way: A cineon curve that exposes sensor noise in the last stop of the dynamic range. Numerous testers (includine the EBU, CML and ASC member DP's) have tested the $16k Canon C300 II and found it to deliver approximately 15 stops. Just because you read one article doesn't make it so. 

Of course ask that Arri to shoot above ISO 800 and it starts to show a lot of noise as well. Shoot above ISO 2500 and you might as well go home. Put an EF lens on it and ask it to focus itself, and it might look at you sideways. You'd think a camera that costs 3-4 times as much as the C300 II, would be able to do everything, not just give you noise reduction in the shadows. But that would be me being critical and one sided.

Greg, Arri makes, perhaps the best cameras in the market. I don't think anyone at Canon every suggested that the C300 II competes with anything in the Arri Lineup. In fact...they said quite often that it was most appropriate to consider it as a b-camera on an Alexa shoot. All of the cameras produced by the major manufacturers I've mentioned are phenomenal devices. Real professionals, like myself, use all of them on a daily basis. The original c300 was a runaway hit with DP's and operators for a lot of reasons. The new camera blows it away in features, image quality and dynamic range, and maintains all of the things that made it so popular. When and if Canon Makes a $30k, $40k or $80k camera, I'm quite certain it will compete with the best of them.


----------



## Local Hero (Jun 1, 2016)

The only reason RED has a big sensor in their cameras is because TowerJazz can't make a higher density sensor.
So to offer higher resolution, the only way for them is to make the sensor bigger.

When they say Super 35, they always mean Super 35 width, but 16:9 ratio.
Sure, it's wrong, but that is what they mean.

The dynamic range of all current cinema cameras is about the same (apart from maybe the Sony F65 in RAW).
It depends on how much noise in the shadows you are prepared to accept that constitutes an additional stop of dynamic range.
The C300 MK II is about the same too. There is no additional dynamic range.

The image quality of the Alexa is no better than other cameras.
In fact, it is worse.
If you do back to back tests with other cameras you will find that it has quite a bit more noise in the shadows and mid-tones than other cameras.
However it is a fantastic camera for many, many reasons, so people love to use it.
Pure image quality is just not one of them.
The image quality is fine, but if you pixel peep it is actually not as good, but who cares.


----------



## mistaspeedy (Jun 1, 2016)

No 8K. Canon is *******  (joke)
We'll have to wait and see what the whole industry does during 2016 and see if and when other manufacturers move to 6K and 8K in competing price ranges. It will be interesting to see what the Panasonic GH5 brings and how the rest of the market will react.


----------



## expatinasia (Jun 1, 2016)

Etienne said:


> bertzie said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



The C100 is an attractive tool, but from my own personal perspective I would be more interested in Canon updating the XF300 and XF305.


----------



## gsealy (Jun 1, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > bertzie said:
> ...



Yes. It seems as though they have been left out of the current updates.


----------



## Etienne (Jun 1, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > bertzie said:
> ...



I used to watch for that update as well, but I gave up looking for rumors and eventually forgot about that camera. I wonder if Canon has given up on it? In fact You are right, I'd definitely consider it. Even over the C100, and just use a 5D camera for low light shallow DOF when needed


----------



## cinema-dslr (Jun 1, 2016)

I would like a 21:9 censor with the width of a fullframe censor in a c100 body. 

The c700 probably will have a more square censor 3:4 to make use of the anamorfic lenses.


----------



## SPG (Jun 1, 2016)

I don't know if this is still the case, but a lot of the sensors are square when they are made. The camera then either just uses the 16:9 part or it's masked, but the sensor itself has photosensors on a square chip. One of the reasons that I hate vertical video as the phone makers could switch to match orientation with just software, but I digress...
If the sensor is starting out in a more square format than it makes sense to be able to use anamorphic lenses to get 16:9 out of 4:3, but it also gives you the ability to get that super vista vision ultra wide look on a 16:9 sensor. Either way it's a nice trick if you have access to those pricey anamorphic lenses.


----------



## George D. (Jun 2, 2016)

In addition to this CR3 pre-announcement Intel has announced the new 10-core i7 6900 series this week at Computex targeted to 4K editing and multitasking and VR. So this is not just Canon but a whole industry step-up in which one has to invest in many ways. In DSLR we're most likely seeing a 5D4 with 4K this year, a 1DX2 already with 4K, what is not mentioned is to enter the game you probably need new processors, new computers, new everything...


----------



## Etienne (Jun 2, 2016)

George D. said:


> In addition to this CR3 pre-announcement Intel has announced the new 10-core i7 6900 series this week at Computex targeted to 4K editing and multitasking and VR. So this is not just Canon but a whole industry step-up in which one has to invest in many ways. In DSLR we're most likely seeing a 5D4 with 4K this year, a 1DX2 already with 4K, what is not mentioned is to enter the game you probably need new processors, new computers, new everything...


It's always been that way.
But existing i7 processors work well for 4K.
VR is still in it's infancy, most people won't be doing any of that for some time yet.


----------



## expatinasia (Jun 2, 2016)

Etienne said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > The C100 is an attractive tool, but from my own personal perspective I would be more interested in Canon updating the XF300 and XF305.
> ...



I do not think they have given up on the XF 300/305 (at least I hope not) it is still an amazing camera for the price, but development does seem to have stalled on the higher end Pro Camcorder market

Still, the XF300 is a camera that I am very tempted by, and could well get one soon.

The C100 and C300 are terrific tools, but not what I need due mainly to their limitations and added costs involved. I won't even talk about the C500 or C700 as they are just over my budget.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 5, 2016)

A while back we had 4 x 3 then we got 
(4^2) x (3^2) = 16 x 9

Next I suspect we'll see 
(4^3) x (3^3) = 64 x 27
So my guess is 5120 x 2160


----------



## HarryFilm (Jun 6, 2016)

*Re: Canon Cinema EOS C700 Coming in 2016 [CR2]*



jeffa4444 said:


> The Cinema EOS C700 was started as a dummy rumor along with fake literature in 2015. Im at a loss to understand why they would produce a 16x9 sensor and then push Anamorphic lenses you would affectively crop the 16X9 sensor to acheive this. 16.9 is 1.78.1 and anamorphic 2.39.1 hence why anamorphic is normally shot open gate or 4:3 (cinema not stills equivilent to half frame)
> Both Sony and Canon dont seem to understand Cinema whereas Arri and Red both do. If Canon were forward thinking the camera would cover Vistavision i.e. basically 36x24mm that has a diagonal of 43.26 and allowing for safe area is nominally 42mm diagonal this is where Red has gone.



When I saw this brochure I KNEW it had to be real!
Too many details contained too many engineering-type specs
which requires somebody really smart to show off.

These are the links to the brochure I found:


http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_01_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_02_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_03_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_04_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_05_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_06_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_07_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_08_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_09_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_10_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_11_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_12_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_13_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_14_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_15_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_16_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_17_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_18_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_19_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_20_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_Page_21_of_21.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Brochure_PDF_Properties.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Press_Release_Page_1_of_2.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Press_Release_Page_2_of_2.jpg
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/10/Canon_EOS_700x_Preordering_Press_Release_PDF_Properties.jpg

THIS is the camera I want --- just make it 8k and we'll be REALLY HAPPY CAMPERS!


----------



## C-A430 (Jun 7, 2016)

*Re: Canon Cinema EOS C700 Coming in 2016 [CR2]*



HarryFilm said:


> THIS is the camera I want --- just make it 8k and we'll be REALLY HAPPY CAMPERS!



It does have equivalent resolution. Since it has [email protected] (both RAW and compressed) it has 1/4 of the pixel resolution of 8K 10-bit cLog, but having 16 times more luminance resolution and 16 times the color/chroma "resolution" (precision).

If you would be downscaling for BluRay / HDTV you would have a master with x4 (pixel) x64 (14-bit) = 256 times more luminance data and 256 x 4 (x4 is the difference against the 4:2:0 subsampling) = 1024 times the color information of BluRay. That is if we presume the same framerate.

If it is true that Arri Alexa exceeds the IQ of super-35mm-film than C700 would have x100 the precision of film stock.

If that does not fulfill your needs wait for 8K - 16bit - 4:4:4


----------

