# 6D or 5ds



## Leafz66 (Jul 2, 2015)

Is it worth upgrading to the 5ds from a 6d? I mainly use the 6D for family events, landscape and work events (usually groups, presentations and golf tournament).


----------



## pdirestajr (Jul 2, 2015)

Do you need to print large?


----------



## Rahul (Jul 2, 2015)

pdirestajr said:


> Do you need to print large?



I hear you. I was thinking of getting a 5Ds as well but realised that I'm never going to take advantage of the increased resolution. I purchased the 6D a few days back as a second FF body.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Jul 2, 2015)

What capability of the 6D is holding you back in your individual photography style/environment?

The 6D is a good camera.


----------



## Leafz66 (Jul 2, 2015)

The largest I print is 20x30. Sometimes I get requests for high resolution photos for stuff I have taken at work. 

I agree the 6D is a solid camera and I don't need speed with a 7D Mark II as my second body. The low light capability has come in handy multiple times. There have been times I have taken the 6D and have run into it being too slow for the moment.


----------



## lpwphoto (Jul 2, 2015)

> The largest I print is 20x30. Sometimes I get requests for high resolution photos for stuff I have taken at work.
> 
> I agree the 6D is a solid camera and I don't need speed with a 7D Mark II as my second body. The low light capability has come in handy multiple times. There have been times I have taken the 6D and have run into it being too slow for the moment.



For what it's worth, I made some great prints that were 20x30 with my old 20D. I think you're fine with a 6D even potentially going bigger if you wanted/had to...and if you have money burning a hole in your pocket, get some new high end glass. You could get some nice lenses for the money you'd save from upgrading.


----------



## NancyP (Jul 2, 2015)

Consider also your style of working and your computer set-up. If you tend to take lots of photos, reviewing 50 MP photos at 100% may be a PITA. If you set up carefully and take only a few photos, your workflow oughtn't to change a great deal.


----------



## H. Jones (Jul 2, 2015)

How about the 5D Mark III or 1Dx as a 6D replacement? You can get them pretty cheap now, and that autofocus system is killer; though I'm sure you've had plenty of experience with that from your 7D mark II.

I personally have the 5D mark III for photojournalism work, and I love it. Never felt it being too slow at any sporting event or breaking news scene. Right now I think you can find it for $2000, which is a steal.

And since you're talking about the 5DS: I've seen the 1DX for around $4,000, which isn't too much over the price of a 5Ds. The 1DX is a hell of a camera, and I'd definitely own one if it wasn't for the fact that most newspapers that I shoot for have them on hand already.

That said, I'm probably in the minority opinion when it comes to the 5Ds, since the newspapers I work with all downsize photos to about 2000 pixels on the long end, which is about 2.6 megapixels.


----------



## bholliman (Jul 3, 2015)

If you don't print really large (bigger than 20"x30"), I'm not sure the added resolution is necessary. If you insist on having the latest and greatest, then go for it. 

I have a 5DIII and 6D and think I'll pass on the 5DS and SR. The 5DIII and 6D are terrific for everything I use them for, and way better than my skill as a photographer. My next upgrade is probably the 5D MkIV after the price starts to drop, so we are talking about maybe 2018. I am curious, but will probably satisfy that by renting one for a week at some point.


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 3, 2015)

Sure sounds like you really want one, but I don't hear anything to indicate that you need one at all.

sek


----------



## Act444 (Jul 3, 2015)

> The low light capability has come in handy multiple times. There have been times I have taken the 6D and have run into it being too slow for the moment.



Sounds like the 5DS wouldn't be a good fit then. The 6D has excellent high-ISO performance. The 5DS offers vastly increased resolution, but the tradeoff is one stop worse high ISO ability (similar to the 7D2). You would take a step back in this regard. If you shoot a lot at high ISO, this is NOT the camera for you. (Also factor in the higher shutter speeds needed with the 5DS to get sharp shots at full res - demands more light/higher ISO too.)

6D/5D3 @ 6400 = 5DS @ 2500/3200. (Note: having said that, in some shots enough detail is captured that you can apply enough noise reduction to get it down to 6D level and maintain similar levels of detail....but then again, why bother with the 5DS then?)

For general shooting, I would go for a 5D3 (and that's what I use myself). Maybe wait to see what the 5D4 offers if you must have the latest. 

Also, after playing around with a 5DS at the store, it seems you really *do* need the latest/sharpest lenses to take full advantage of all 50MP. Mostly primes - the 100 Macro and the 50 Art (Sigma) were the only two lenses I tested that I felt really did the camera justice. As far as zooms, the 70-300L was just OK and the 24-105 and 70-200 were awful. And all three of those lenses are decent performers on the 6D!


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jul 3, 2015)

Act444 said:


> > The low light capability has come in handy multiple times. There have been times I have taken the 6D and have run into it being too slow for the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not to be rude, but do you have the 5Ds, or did you just play around with it at the store? Because everything you said about it was pretty much wrong. And I hate to see misinformation given to someone asking for advice.

First, the noise is better than the 7D2 at high ISO. You're forgetting that yes the pixels are the same size, the 5Ds has a larger sensor. I agree the CFA is stronger though because I notice the colors are better so that may reduce some of the QE.

Your comments regarding the lenses are not correct either. We've had tons of discussions on this topic and it still appears people aren't understanding. You will always gain resolution. Crappy lens on 5Ds still produces more detail than same lens on 5D3. Period. No exceptions. And what 70-200 lens are you talking about? Hopefully not the v2 IS lens.

You didn't mention that the AF system is every bit as good as the 5D3's too.

Is high ISO as good as 5D3 or 6D? No, of course not. But at least the OP has all the facts now.


----------



## Act444 (Jul 3, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Act444 said:
> 
> 
> > > The low light capability has come in handy multiple times. There have been times I have taken the 6D and have run into it being too slow for the moment.
> ...



Never said I had the 5DS, thought I was clear when I said I was just testing it out. 

As for comparison of noise levels, I meant at pixel level. But here's where you (the OP) can investigate the difference with your own eyes and be the judge:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/5

You can select camera models and compare. 

_________________
Honestly, it does appear to me that the 5DS has slightly more noise than the 7D2 BUT the pattern is finer (smoother), colors are better and detail is greater, making the 5DS result more pleasing to the eye. 

And in terms of resolution, yes, you can pull out more resolution on the 5DS than the 6D/5D3 regardless of lens. The worse the lens, the smaller the resolution difference will be (Lens Rentals has a good write-up here http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/06/canon-5ds-and-5ds-r-initial-resolution-tests). But the point I'm getting at is this: if you are going to take *full* advantage of the camera's resolution - *if* you blow your images up to 100%, crop heavily and/or print big - then you are going to want high quality lenses...there's really no getting around that TBH. LR showed the increase in resolution with the 50 1.4 (a mediocre copy, apparently) to be 20% on the 5DS over the 5D3...but your image size goes up accordingly by almost 51%...meaning that IF you view your image at 100%, it will appear softer on the 5DS. But if you downsize the 5DS pic to 5D3 resolution, it should be sharper than the native 5D3 shot. Depends on what you want I guess. Also, image processing times will be longer as well (if you shoot RAW). 

The 70-200 was the 2.8 IS, original version. (They didn't have version 2 unfortunately, I'm sure that would have been significantly better)


----------



## 3kramd5 (Jul 3, 2015)

Act444 said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Act444 said:
> ...



Did you have a memory card or were you just reviewing photos on the screen?

The statement (paraphrased) "you need the best lenses to take full advantage of a sensor" is true for all sensors. Likewise the statement "you need the best sensor to take full advantage of a lens" is true. System resolution is a function of both.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jul 3, 2015)

H. Jones said:


> How about the 5D Mark III or 1Dx as a 6D replacement?



I just went through the the suggested options above and got a 6D to replace/complement my aging 5DII's. You're (the OP) there already.

Since you are looking for an upgrade to your existing gear the only real thing Canon has to offer is their high megapix camera for either very large prints or heavy cropping.

2.500$+ for 5D Mark III or 1Dx will bring you nothing noteworthy in terms of speed, high iso or picture quality. Imagine this - what picture will these bodies take that you cannot take already?

Instead, for 2.500$ you can get a lens or maybe even two that can _transform _your ability to take pictures by opening options you do not have today (depending on what lenses you have already) for example if you are missing a fast prime, a marco lens, a super tele or a shift focus lens. Just missing a fast prime can cut 1-2 hours off your daily shooting time compared to standard zooms if you prefer shooting in natural light.

To me there's not even a dilemma here unless you have a very clearly defined need that is not covered - which seems obvious from your question you have not.

You may also wait to see what the 5DIV has to offer. Canon has already said a 5DIV will replace the 5DIII in their line-up. This is the camera to look for. Or take a leap of faith with the new SONY (which I have waiting for myself) in stead of hunting marginal gains you may never be able to see in your results.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jul 3, 2015)

The 5Ds is a huge upgrade over the 6D mainly due to AF. When you have good light and have time to take advantage of the 50MP then they are there for you. For events where you might shoot a lot of content you can have the option of shooting in 28MP MRAW mode if card/HDD space is gonna be an issue. Even in MRAW mode you still have a about a 20% croppability advantage over the 6D so it is a no brainer for me.


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 3, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> The 5Ds is a huge upgrade over the 6D mainly due to AF. When you have good light and have time to take advantage of the 50MP then they are there for you. For events where you might shoot a lot of content you can have the option of shooting in 28MP MRAW mode if card/HDD space is gonna be an issue. Even in MRAW mode you still have a about a 20% croppability advantage over the 6D so it is a no brainer for me.



One thing to bear in mind here if you are going to be frequently using mRaw and sRAw (and I would if I had a 5Ds) is that the files, although smaller, are slow to process in comparison with a normal raw. Also they seem to convert best in DPP, not that is necessarily a problem but it's worth noting.


----------



## PureClassA (Jul 3, 2015)

Seems like everyone here has already hit on the high points, so I'll just toss in to back them up. I have the 5DSR. Also have the 6D (Excellent, amazing camera) the 5D3 (fantastic all-around workhorse) and I rent the 1DX every year for special work. With the recent price drops, the 1DX and 5D3 are total STEALS now. Only reason I'm not buying a 1DX is because I'm waiting to see the 1DX2 and 5D4.

If you regularly print 20x30, you sound like me! The 6D will make fantastic images, but I disagree that at THAT size the 5DS wouldn't make a difference. At 8x10 I'd agree. At 20x30 you should be able to see fine detail differences provided your shooting technique was sound enough to take advantage of the increased resolution (tripod and cable release, mainly). So whatever you're shooting would ideally need to be subjects you can capture in the ideal 5DS setup I just mentioned. I bought mine for studio work. So it's perfect.

The 5DS has a far more sophisticated AF system than the 6D (same as 5D3) and a better metering system taken from the 1DX. However, the 5DS is NOT a general purpose camera just due to the obnoxious file sizes in RAW. mRAW and such don't help because it still shoots normally and needs DPP to manage those special files anyway. High ISO performance is on par and perhaps a bit better than the 6D and certainly better than the 5D3 in my experience. However, even with ISO 12800 on the 6D, I never use it. I just don't care for the results that much anyway. I'd rather be at 6400 and open the aperture up or rely on a steady hand, lens IS, tripod etc... whatever. I know you can't always do that though. But again, that's ME.

If you're happy with the 6D, then wait a few more months and see what the 5D4 brings. It will highly likely be in the same price range as the 5DS at around 24-28MP, 7-8 FPS perhaps, the 1DX metering system, and perhaps a new AF system similar to the 7D2 with the points more spread out across the frame. Also, it will hopefully use the new sensor tech from the C300 MkII and yield 14-15 stops of DR. Fingers crossed. That would be the perfect all-around camera that would produce amazing 20x30 print sizes (NOT that the 6D doesn't).


----------



## Act444 (Jul 3, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Did you have a memory card or were you just reviewing photos on the screen?



Memory card, shot in RAW, took home to review. Can't tell much just by looking at the screen preview...

Actually, an additional thing I'll mention is that I noticed the new metering system in the 5DS (and 7D2 as well, which I have) is a significant improvement over the 5D3. FAR less tendency to underexpose in backlit situations/fluorescent lighting. I hope (and assume) it will make it into the 5D4 as well.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jul 3, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > The 5Ds is a huge upgrade over the 6D mainly due to AF. When you have good light and have time to take advantage of the 50MP then they are there for you. For events where you might shoot a lot of content you can have the option of shooting in 28MP MRAW mode if card/HDD space is gonna be an issue. Even in MRAW mode you still have a about a 20% croppability advantage over the 6D so it is a no brainer for me.
> ...


Noted, it was just a suggestion in terms of managing card/HDD space for the occasions where massive resolution is not necessary. In the field you might not have time for camera buffering or swapping cards but in post you can have more freedom of managing time/expectations.


----------



## SUNDOG04 (Jul 3, 2015)

I finally upgraded from my trusty 40D to a 6D. I did so because of the wider selection of wide angle lenses and the fact that the 40D is getting old and will not last forever. I do landscapes and other nature photography, but do not make huge prints. The 6D was a much more affordable camera for me although I was a little leery of the lack of auto-focus points. a 5D3 is a better camera, but just too much money for me. At any rate, I really, really like the 6D, it is a bit smaller and lighter than the 40D. It may lack focus points but the focusing is fast and accurate. I also like the simplicity. Now if I were to do birds in flight, I would want a more capable body, but I would also need a longer lens as well.

No doubt the 5DS is a fantastic camera, but will require excellent technique to bring out those qualities. You are the best one to decide if you will get better results with an upgrade and whether the upgrade is worth the cost. Unless you need an immediate upgrade to your images, I would say don't rush into it.

I am satisfied with my purchase but will enjoy reading the thoughts of others with the 5DS.


----------



## Cariboucoach (Jul 4, 2015)

Crosswind said:


> Hi there! I cannot understand why some people think that Canon's new 5DSr is worse than the 6D in terms of image noise. In fact, the 5DS, especially the 5DSr is at least equal or even slightly better when it comes to high ISO.
> 
> _More pixels will record more detail, but how much more detail depends on the specifics of the scene (e.g. motion blur) and the sharpness of the lens. If the photo with more pixels has "enough" more detail than the photo with fewer pixels, then the application of NR to normalize the detail between the two photos may tip the noise advantage in favor of the photo with more pixels, even if the initial image file were more noisy._
> 
> ...



I went to Imaging Resource's "Compar0meter" at this link http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM 
and found the 6D was Much better at ISO 12,800 in terms of noise. But the 5Ds still had much more detail.


----------



## mangobutter (Jul 9, 2015)

If you have to ask if you need the 5DS (or anything, really), you don't. The 6D is more than adequate and I'd argue even superior. 

Unless you shoot in a studio FULL TIME or have obscene amounts of money, then skip the 5DS/R.


----------



## super_newbie_pro (Jul 10, 2015)

Bad news for Canon ==> http://thenewcamera.com/canon-5ds-test-at-dxomark-lab/

Nikon and Sony are better


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jul 10, 2015)

super_newbie_pro said:


> Bad news for Canon ==> http://thenewcamera.com/canon-5ds-test-at-dxomark-lab/
> 
> Nikon and Sony are better


I know it is not stills but Ill give a high end video parallel. The Red Dragon has greater resolution than the Arri Alexa, the Arri Alexa natively has greater DR, they are both great cameras. However the success of the Arri Alexa dwarfs the Red Dragon but its not down to DR its down to the fact that colorimagery wise the Alexa looks more like film and its lower resolution actually helps preserve that. 
More resolution is not always favourable particularly in video, sure for landscape photography and some table-top stills of products resolution to increase the almost 3D effect is great. But models dont want every blemish showing up and more resolution means more retouching there has to be a balance between three conflicting elements, resolution, DR and colorimagery. On that basis and given no one camera currently can give you everything it becomes horses for courses and that means Nikon and Sony are not always better.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jul 10, 2015)

Should have added other points:- 

If you want consistantly good sharp shots invest in a high quality, stable tripod and head and buy a cable release. (on the 6D you can use wi-fi and a phone app for remote release with or without live view). I would recommend Gitzo series 2 or 3 tripods or Really Right Stuff Versa series 2 or 3 and either the Arca-Swiss Z1 or the Really Right Stuff BH-55 (I have both heads and both are amazing). 
A tip for landscape in windy conditions, pack a couple of aluminium spikes and tent type guide line tensioned with figure of 9 tighteners works wonders.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Jul 10, 2015)

scottkinfw said:


> Sure sounds like you really want one, but I don't hear anything to indicate that you need one at all.
> 
> sek



To be honest, when has that ever stopped any of us? ;D

If I were restricted to the camera I *need* I would have stayed with my 30D.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jul 20, 2015)

Alex Nail has done a comparison with the 6D especially for landscape on his blog.

www.alexnail.com


----------



## nc0b (Jul 20, 2015)

Sundog04. I am quite happy with my BIF results with my 6D and 400mm f/5.6 lens. None of my older bodies come close to the 6D in that respect. I have never used a 5D3 or 1D anything, so I am not commenting on them, which are likely better. I use the center focus point only and the 8.5 meter limit on the 400mm. If you want to get a start with BIF, and don't want to spend a fortune, you can do well with the old workhorse f/5.6.


----------

