# Focus problems with the Canon 7DII?



## JRPhotos (Nov 6, 2014)

So far I've been pretty dissapointed with this camera. It seems as though the majority of the photos are coming out soft or out of focus. I can't keep chimping at my photos to make sure that they are right when I'm shooting portraits, etc.

This happens when I'm using All focal points, a group or just one and all AI modes as well as One Shot, AI Focus and AI servo.

I've tested this on the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8, Sigma 50 1.4 ART, Canon 24-105 and the Canon 70-300L and all but the 70-300L have this problem.

Anyone else see this? I'll post some examples soon.

Edit: I want to add that I have used a single point as well in many of my photos and the same problem occurs, please see my other posts.

******************
EDIT: Problem resolved with a new copy of the camera
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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 6, 2014)

Cameras can have issues, its pretty simple to determine if there is a problem. 

A controlled test on a tripod with a high contrast subject that is not moving is a first start. If it fails that test, then I'd return the camera rather than have it fixed.

If it passes, then more testing to try and determine just what is happing is in order.

Your photos with the camera settings, shutter speed, iso, aperture will help.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> So far I've been pretty dissapointed with this camera. It seems as though the majority of the photos are coming out soft or out of focus. I can't keep chimping at my photos to make sure that they are right when I'm shooting portraits, etc.
> 
> This happens when I'm using All focal points, a group or just one and all AI modes as well as One Shot, AI Focus and AI servo.



This is now the second post (first post here) reporting serious softness with the 7DII, and it's giving me sweats (and nightmares of my old 7DI, which was a victim of the melted-hay syndrome, even after 4 replacements from Canon Irvine). 

I'm giving my 7D2 a run through this weekend; I'll report back my results.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

Here are two photos, hand held while sitting. 

Manual Mode, F/2.8 @ 1/125, Canon 600RX-RT mounted to camera. Two consecutive shots. I can set it up on a tripod but I barely ever use one and may just ask B&H for an exchange, I don't have time to mess around with tests or micro adjustments, etc.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> Here are two photos, hand held while sitting.
> 
> Manual Mode, F/2.8 @ 1/125, Canon 600RX-RT mounted to camera. Two consecutive shots. I can set it up on a tripod but I barely ever use one and may just ask B&H for an exchange, I don't have time to mess around with tests or micro adjustments, etc.



What's odd is, the fork is incredibly sharp and clearly in focus. Are you using focus/recompose? Local points? Sorry to be a pest, but I've been down this road before with my 7D1 and just want to try and pinpoint any other possible scenarios that may be causing this.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

For this series I had been using all points but it doesn't matter if I was using a single point or a group. I pressed half way down, it looked good in the eye piece so I took the shot and repeated for the next shot.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> For this series I had been using all points but it doesn't matter if I was using a single point or a group. I pressed half way down, it looked good in the eye piece so I took the shot and repeated for the next shot.



Are you using the focus-assist beam on the 600RX; or relying on the lens/sensor alone? Also, what version of DPP are you running?


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## Don Haines (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> Here are two photos, hand held while sitting.
> 
> Manual Mode, F/2.8 @ 1/125, Canon 600RX-RT mounted to camera. Two consecutive shots. I can set it up on a tripod but I barely ever use one and may just ask B&H for an exchange, I don't have time to mess around with tests or micro adjustments, etc.



What lens did you use, what was the focal length, and how far away was the subject? That would help in debugging....


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

I was using the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 and was roughly 3 feet away, sitting. I was using the focus assist on the flash. Using the latest DPP (4x) that was downloaded today.... it looks soft on the camera screen as well.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

FWIW, I just slapped on my 85mm and snapped a JPG of my dog from across the couch to check everything out. This is the first time I've ever used the 7D2, so it's stock out of the box. I turned off the auto-lighting optimizer, but all other in-camera settings are default. My living room is incredibly dark (it's well past sunset here in Colorado), but it did a great job with center focus. Single AF point (center), aimed at the catch-light in her left eye (photo-right eye), focused, and recomposed. 

Canon 85mm lens, f/1.8, 1/80s, ISO 3200

Here's the JPG out of Lightroom - some contrast/WB edits, and no output sharpening... 

*Update:* Added a 2nd version of the same photo with a smidge of sharpening on export; I think it passed the focus test.

I suggest you start simple; use single, center-point focus, and see what it does. Post up your results.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I was using the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 and was roughly 3 feet away, sitting. I was using the focus assist on the flash. Using the latest DPP (4x) that was downloaded today.... it looks soft on the camera screen as well.



Let's start simple; use single, center-point focus, and see what it does. Take the flash off. Remove external factors, and let's focus on the camera/lens combo before adding in other differentials to the mix.

I've been down this road before, and patience is key. Don't throw in the towel yet, let's see what we can figure out first before jumping to get a replacement.

Post up your results.

And FWIW, and not to sound condescending, but don't always trust the camera LCD - a JPG preview is not the same as a RAW file.


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## Lee Jay (Nov 7, 2014)

When all points are selected, it's going to try to focus on the closest object - the fork in her right hand.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> When all points are selected, it's going to try to focus on the closest object - the fork in her right hand.



I noticed that too; you can see the cluster of points at the bottom of the DPP pane. It's focusing, just not on what he wants. Let's hope manual AF point control solves it.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

I'm having the same problem, I even reset the camera back to factory defaults. These examples are with the flash. I'll try some without the flash and with my other 600.


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## Don Haines (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I was using the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 and was roughly 3 feet away, sitting. I was using the focus assist on the flash. Using the latest DPP (4x) that was downloaded today.... it looks soft on the camera screen as well.



looking at the picture, I would guess that your lens was around 35-40mm.... At 35mm, F2.8, 3 feet away, and with a 7D2, your depth of field should be 2.76 inches.... 1.32 inches before the focus point to 1.44 inches behind. I think that is your problem.....

Going to F8 would get you +/- 4 inches from the focus point. Try using a single focus point and on her eyes...

BTW, you can find lots of online DOF calculators.... http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

hope this helps


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I'm having the same problem, I even reset the camera back to factory defaults. These examples are with the flash. I'll try some without the flash and with my other 600.



First off, that second shot looks DANG sharp! no? And look where the AF point is, on an area with good contrast! That catch light probably gave the AF something to hone in on.

Now, here's the general advice: always try focusing on a point of contrast. AF has a difficult time focusing in low-light when everything in the sensor area looks the same. Granted, you have a dark nostril in the AF point, but in that shot it's primarily bland skin tone. Focus on the eye, or center the line between the iris/white of her eye in the middle of the AF point. 

Help the AF out as much as you can in low-light; this can be done by centering AF points on areas of sharp contrast. It's worth a try.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 7, 2014)

All focus points (in One Shot) means letting the camera decide your subject for you. I'd avoid doing that.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

The problem is that I can take these same shots with NO problem on the 7D, same lens, etc. I'm not going to shoot @ f/8 when I have a 2.8 lens and want that shallow depth of field. 

I took photos from 6 feet away @ 2.8 of my wife who was posing and 1 out of 3 shots were blurry, consistently.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> The problem is that I can take these same shots with NO problem on the 7D, same lens, etc. I'm not going to shoot @ f/8 when I have a 2.8 lens and want that shallow depth of field.



Here's the thing, and I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, because I know the toils of being unhappy with AF. When it comes down to it, only you can decide if you're unhappy with your purchase. If, after doing a bunch of tests the AF just isn't what you had hoped for, and the experience is even worse than your 7DI, then I think you have more than justified to yourself that an exchange is warranted.

Lemons happen. Try a new body and see if any improvement is gained.

PS: Just keep in mind, this is a COMPLETELY new AF system with no relation whatsoever to the 7DI. Expecting similar results may not be fair. If you want to stick with the 7D2 you may find that you will need to tailor your shooting style to the new AF system, for better or worse.


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## Don Haines (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> The problem is that I can take these same shots with NO problem on the 7D, same lens, etc. I'm not going to shoot @ f/8 when I have a 2.8 lens and want that shallow depth of field.


OK!

If you want shallow depth of field you can't beat F2.8 when using that lens  I have one too and I love it!

Seriously though, go to a single focus point and use it on the area you want to be in focus... I really think that's your problem.... When you use multiple points it choses the closest one (the fork) and you loose her face


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## Nelu (Nov 7, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> When all points are selected, it's going to try to focus on the closest object - the fork in her right hand.



There you go, here is your answer. The camera did what it was supposed to do: it focused on the nearest point.
I don`t see any problem here.
The problem is you`re using the wrong focusing mode for the subject.

Nelu


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> The problem is that I can take these same shots with NO problem on the 7D, same lens, etc. I'm not going to shoot @ f/8 when I have a 2.8 lens and want that shallow depth of field.



Three issues...

The 7DII has far more AF points, with a wider spread. The fork in the early examples wouldn't have been near a 7D AF point, for example. 

That you have issues with some lenses only suggests AFMA would help. Set up on a tripod, good light, high contrast subject with lots of detail. Take ~5 shots in Live View, then ~5 through the viewfinder. Pick the sharpest of each set, and if the Live View image is noticeably sharper, AFMA is warranted. 

The fact that you're letting the camera pick the AF points has already been mentioned.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

I just want to clarify, I retook some photos using the single AF point, same results, 1-2 out of 3 photos were out of focus.

Same lens, same settings, different flash, problem happened without the flash as well. I realize that the AF system is new but this is not right. I've been shooting for years and have never had this problem before.

I typically shoot with one AF point when it comes to portraits, I use all AF points when I'm shooting a nice wide landscape. 

This isn't the only lens this happens with. I'm going to end up having B&H send me another one in exchange for this one.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> This isn't the only lens this happens with. I'm going to end up having B&H send me another one in exchange for this one.



Please keep us updated.


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 7, 2014)

Why don't you try shooting something "moving" at a nice rate of speed?
Birds maybe or some sporting event? ???


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

Sportsgal501 said:


> Why don't you try shooting something "moving" at a nice rate of speed?
> Birds maybe or some sporting event? ???


I don't shoot sports, only portraits, wildlife and landscapes.


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## Don Haines (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just want to clarify, I retook some photos using the single AF point, same results, 1-2 out of 3 photos were out of focus.
> 
> Same lens, same settings, different flash, problem happened without the flash as well. I realize that the AF system is new but this is not right. I've been shooting for years and have never had this problem before.
> 
> ...



Have you tried to AFMA the lens? I had to adjust my 17-55 by +2 on the wide end and -3 on the long end....


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> Sportsgal501 said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you try shooting something "moving" at a nice rate of speed?
> ...



Maybe the Canon 6D or Canon 5D Mark III (Portraits) would have been better for you, since this camera is aimed towards Wildlife and Sports Photographers.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

GraFax said:


> I've seen where some folks are saying there may be issues with DPP 4 and soft RAW conversions. Try using the version of DPP that came with the camera on CD (3.14?) and see if that sharpens things up.



I tried DPP 3.x as well but it's the same results, I can tell they are blurry on camera as well. I don't want to micro adjust, never had to with the 7DI and the same lenses... why would it matter now? And how would that help when this isn't consistent?


I'm not even going to consider the 5DIII right now, the 7D worked very well for portraits, I upgraded to the 7DII for the better AF, GPS and better noise.


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> GraFax said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen where some folks are saying there may be issues with DPP 4 and soft RAW conversions. Try using the version of DPP that came with the camera on CD (3.14?) and see if that sharpens things up.
> ...



If you end up returning it go with the Full Frame Canon 6D for additional $100.00,the 7D and 7D Mark II are two different creatures. You should also check the Canon USA tutorial site, it might be able to help you out.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just want to clarify, I retook some photos using the single AF point, same results, 1-2 out of 3 photos were out of focus.
> 
> Same lens, same settings, different flash, problem happened without the flash as well. I realize that the AF system is new but this is not right. I've been shooting for years and have never had this problem before.
> 
> ...


 
I'm with you, I'd probably return it.

But, in order to find the issue, take one more stab (No flash). Try using the live AF in a similar setup. Live AF using the phase detect feature of the dual pixels has been extremely accurate, sometimes achieving consistent sharp focus even with problem lenses.

If the use of Live AF produces good results, then the camera is probably front or back focusing, but nothing is obvious in the small online images.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

I just took a bunch of photos in Live View with and without the flash, all are very consistent.... If this is front or back focusing, would another 7DII do this? I've been trying to mess with the MA but it's very confusing to me even after reading the CLC document.


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## Woody (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just want to clarify, I retook some photos using the single AF point, same results, 1-2 out of 3 photos were out of focus.



That is not good. Sigh


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## Woody (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I don't shoot sports, portraits, wildlife and landscapes.



Since you managed to achieve consistent AF using live view and have no need to photograph moving subjects or landscape, I suggest you move to a contrast based AF camera. The A6000 or XT1 or EM1 or GH4 beckons... ;D


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

Woody said:


> JRPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > I don't shoot sports, portraits, wildlife and landscapes.
> ...


That was a typo, I meant that I shoot only portraits, wildlife and landscapes. I'm not switching brands, I have a big investment in Canon gear.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just took a bunch of photos in Live View with and without the flash, all are very consistent.... If this is front or back focusing, would another 7DII do this? I've been trying to mess with the MA but it's very confusing to me even after reading the CLC document.


 
That's good news, many cameras do not match a lens, and the results show up most often in wide aperture closeups.

I use Reikan Focal, but the 7D MK II is not yet supported. There is a method called Dot Tune which can be used in a pinch to adjust the AFMA. Google it, it takes only a few minutes, and might fix the issue.

After reading that you do portraits and landscapes, my thought was that you have the wrong camera. A 6D costs less, and will give noticible better images for portraits and landscape. You might have to sell your ef-s lenses, but you can buy the kit with a 24-105mm L and notice the improvement.

A 7D MK II is optimized for those who need many FPS, and want to track moving subjects.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

I'll try the MA.

I looked at the 6D but don't like the 11 focal points, 19 was nice for certain situations where I didn't want to recompose but put the dot right where I wanted it.

I'd have to sell my EF-S 17-55 and EF-S 10-22 and get their equivalent lenses at a much higher price.


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## LJ3Jim (Nov 7, 2014)

I've tried my 7D2 with a 24-205, 100 Macro, 100-400 (including with 1.4x tc), and a 300 2.8 ii (including 1.4 and 2x tcs). I haven't MFA'd any of the lenses, and I'm getting sharp focusing with all of them. Sounds like your 7D2 has a problem...


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## takesome1 (Nov 7, 2014)

I didn't read all the posts, just passing on my experience so far.
In single shot mode it has been spot on. 
AI Servo and tracking I haven't played with mine enough to say.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

LJ3Jim said:


> I've tried my 7D2 with a 24-205, 100 Macro, 100-400 (including with 1.4x tc), and a 300 2.8 ii (including 1.4 and 2x tcs). I haven't MFA'd any of the lenses, and I'm getting sharp focusing with all of them. Sounds like your 7D2 has a problem...



What about shooting at 2.8 with your macro?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I'll try the MA.
> 
> I looked at the 6D but don't like the 11 focal points, 19 was nice for certain situations where I didn't want to recompose but put the dot right where I wanted it.
> 
> I'd have to sell my EF-S 17-55 and EF-S 10-22 and get their equivalent lenses at a much higher price.


 
That sounds like a issue for you. I went to FF when the 5D MK II came out, but before that, I had bought a few selected FF lenses that could be used either way. I sold my remaining 17-55 after I sold my 7D. Upgrading to "L" lenses was expensive, but I watched Craigslist and sometimes bought a photographers entire inventory at fire sale prices. Then I sold all but the ones I wanted, and basically got free equipment. I did that multiple times. 

I still have a 15-85mm just in case I buy another crop body. That seems unlikely, but possible. I'm still watching 7D reviews and expecting to pay a lot less for either a refurb, or when prices drop. I'm also considering buying the 100-400 MK II or one of the other 150-600mm lenses from Sigma or Tamron.


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## LJ3Jim (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> What about shooting at 2.8 with your macro?



I just took a few handheld shots, and it seems to be perfect.


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I'll try the MA.
> 
> I looked at the 6D but don't like the 11 focal points, 19 was nice for certain situations where I didn't want to recompose but put the dot right where I wanted it.
> 
> I'd have to sell my EF-S 17-55 and EF-S 10-22 and get their equivalent lenses at a much higher price.



IF its any consolation, i have had to AFMA all of my bodies to my lenses. Not one matched up perfectly. I havent had time to afma my 7dii but will be doing it first thing this weekend. Use a tripod and a full sheet of newspaper taped to a wall. shoot 5 shots (one shot AF mode, center point AF) at each major afma index (-20,-15,-10,-5,0,5,10,15,20) then evaluate on a computer, not the lcd screen, which is sharpest. then go back and shoot 5 more at each minor index around that one. You should be able to determine easily which provides the best image for that lens/focal length.

Once you get the hang of it you can do it with less shots but I always recommend 5


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > JRPhotos said:
> ...



One other thing. Many people had simiar issues wwhen the 5diii came out. Most of the AF issues where due to a lack of understanding how the new advaned AF system works. Many assumed settings in the older or consumer models are now manual settings in the new models and require one to visit all of the settings to ensure they are set up properly for the task at hand. Thank god for custom modes on the top dial. On my 5DIII I have one for birds in flight, one mode for static subjects, and one mode for sports action. I will likely set up the same for the 7dii once I can get out to do some shooting.

If the complexity of these models is too much then iit may be too much camera for your needs. I use an EOS-M for shots of my kids as it's quick and easy and does a pretty good job. No one camera will suit every need until you have mastered all of the settings and fully understand the implications of changing them.

Good luck. Based on the image posts it looks like AFMA is required.


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

I hate to stoke the fire, but I think recommending a 6D or 5D3 to the OP, or telling him to photograph a "moving" subject instead, is a terrible idea. Trying to argue that the 7D2 can *only* photograph sports/action, and is not suited for still subjects, is just, well, silly. It's a camera. Granted, it's a camera with a certain design intent, but it's not like we're comparing a Chevy Nova to a track-ready F1 race car. 

The 7D2 is a mid-level pro-sumer body, designed to handle a wide array of subject matter and shooting conditions. It should certainly be able to focus on a child in a kitchen in relatively medium/low lighting conditions. Now, that said, low-light conditions are certainly where AF systems struggle the most.

I will finish this post off by saying this to the OP: After thinking about your posts/story more, the more I think your 7DI (which, based on your accounts, focused more accurately and repeatedly in all lighting conditions) is the likely outlier here than your 7D2. I use a 6D and 5D3 in my event work, and I constantly find myself in demanding situations where there is very little available light. I usually start events at ISO 3,200 and often push to 8,000 as required. Missed focus comes with the territory, and getting those tack sharp results in such conditions is a real chore. So, the fact that you think your 7DI is spot on, time after time in every single scenario, tells me you may have gotten incredibly lucky with that body. All photographers struggle with adapting/modifying their AF techniques as lighting conditions change. To expect repeatable/consistent AF in low-light is simply not realistic, and is not what you should expect with current technology. It's a sensor; it can only do so much.


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## DominoDude (Nov 7, 2014)

To me it sounds like a few hours of doing AFMA on all your lenses could solve your issues. The worst outcome you can have from that is that it will turn out that you need to get a new camera - but at least you can be confident that you know that it's not you, or your lenses, or odd circumstances that created the problem.
I've done AFMA with all lenses on both my bodies, and the amount that I need to nudge them is not the same on those two bodies. And I think there is only one of my lenses that haven't needed any AFMA at all on my 7D.

Good luck, and I hope it will turn out to be an easy fix for you!

Update: In case you haven't read it, here's a short Canon article about AFMA. -> http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/af_microadjustment_article.shtml


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## Maui5150 (Nov 7, 2014)

I think most has been posted, but I would have shot single focus point on this type of shot, especially so close at f/2.8

Your lens may have some AFMA needed which can contribute slightly, but the biggest is your AF mode.

I have shot some fashion where I was using all point on my 5D MK III and one series I was disappointed with the face. I was shooting natural light in so so light so was shooting f/2.8 - F/4 and higher ISO. When looking at the photos and focus points, the dress she was wearing was a little poofy, part of that was closed to the camera and when I zoomed in, those sections were sharp. 

As someone pointed out, in your photo, if you are shooting f/2.8 close up and you have a face and a fork as focus points and the fork is inches forward, face will be soft unless you use a longer lens to get deeper DOF.


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## Don Haines (Nov 7, 2014)

Speaking as someone who works in a research lab and surrounded by lots of very expensive test equipment, the first thing you do when you get in a new piece of gear is to test it. First you check for functionality, and then you calibrate it. The same holds true for a new camera..... First you try it out and get familiar with the basic functionality, then you calibrate it, which means to AFMA your lenses.

When I got my 7D2, the first few pictures were of the cat. I would focus on the eyes and only the tip of the nose was in focus. A quick adjustment on the AFMA and the problem was solved. This weekend I plan to do a more detailed AFMA of all the lenses.

I really suggest yo try to AFMA your body/lens. It will most likely solve your problem, and even if it does not, you will learn how to do it so that even if you do end up exchanging bodies, you will be ready to AFMA the new one.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

I just want to be sure I understand everyone, if a camera takes good and bad photos of a subject with not setting changes it's a AFMA problem? I would think that it would be consistent.


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## DominoDude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just want to be sure I understand everyone, if a camera takes good and bad photos of a subject with not setting changes it's a AFMA problem? I would think that it would be consistent.



In a testing or configuration changing environment, you would have the camera in One Shot mode, and Single Focus Point -> You are in control of where focus lands (or should land).
If you're in any of the Zone modes or full automatic area selection -> You are *not* in control.

Usually it's best to have maximum control when trying to figure out a problem or erratic behaviour.


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## Don Haines (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just want to be sure I understand everyone, if a camera takes good and bad photos of a subject with not setting changes it's a AFMA problem? I would think that it would be consistent.



If the camera is working correctly and you have decent contrast on the subject, the camera should consistently focus +/- one "tick" from the true focus point. 

There are several things that can throw that off. The first is that you are using multiple AF points and the camera is not focusing where you think it should be focusing. This would get you the kind of random focusing problems that you seem to have. The solution would be to go to fewer (best is spot) focus points.

The next think is poor contrast. This would also give you the random focusing performance. If the camera is hunting for focus, this may be the problem.... if it locks on quickly, it isn't.

If the problem is AFMA, then the camera should be consistently off focus by the same (or very close) amount. With your random in-focus pattern, it is probably not the root cause, but it may be a contributing factor.


hope this helps.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just want to be sure I understand everyone, if a camera takes good and bad photos of a subject with not setting changes it's a AFMA problem? I would think that it would be consistent.



Depends on the settings. If you're getting inconsistent results when letting the camera pick your AF point for you, then auto selection is most likely your problem. 

It may be that you have a defective camera, but your tests haven't shown that conclusively.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

I know that there's a lot of posts here, but I am trying to make this clear, I _am_ shooting in one shot mode, one focal point, the example I posted originally was just one example. I could post more of just one focal point but didn't have time. Despite all of that, even shooting with one or small cluster of focal points on the 7DI, I never had this problem, with the 7DII with one focal point or even a cluster 1-2 out of 3 photos are out of focus and I am not new to this as I've said, I don't believe that it's user error.

I am just going to contact B&H and ask for an exchange and if it still happens I'll invest into FoCal or manual MA.


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## Don Haines (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I know that there's a lot of posts here, but I am trying to make this clear, I _am_ shooting in one shot mode, one focal point, the example I posted originally was just one example. I could post more of just one focal point but didn't have time. Despite all of that, even shooting with one or small cluster of focal points on the 7DI, I never had this problem, with the 7DII with one focal point or even a cluster 1-2 out of 3 photos are out of focus and I am not new to this as I've said, I don't believe that it's user error.
> 
> I am just going to contact B&H and ask for an exchange and if it still happens I'll invest into FoCal or manual MA.


You are shooting in one shot mode
you are using one focal point
you have a random number of shots in focus...
it happens with multiple lenses which all worked fine on the old camera....

Given that, I really doubt it is AFMA...

If it were me, I would send it back for exchange....


----------



## DominoDude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I know that there's a lot of posts here, but I am trying to make this clear, I _am_ shooting in one shot mode, one focal point, the example I posted originally was just one example. I could post more of just one focal point but didn't have time. Despite all of that, even shooting with one or small cluster of focal points on the 7DI, I never had this problem, with the 7DII with one focal point or even a cluster 1-2 out of 3 photos are out of focus and I am not new to this as I've said, I don't believe that it's user error.
> 
> I am just going to contact B&H and ask for an exchange and if it still happens I'll invest into FoCal or manual MA.



Ok, I agree now. The lack of consistency in the amount of missed shots points to a lemon best suited for a return.


----------



## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

The camera is going back to B&H on Monday and Adorama is shipping me a new one over night on Monday and if UPS delivers on Tuesday (Veterans day) then I'll have it then and I have that day off as our baby sitter can't watch our daughter that day so hopefully I do get it then!

I'll keep you updated. I'll also mess with the MA this weekend just to learn and see if it really does help but I doubt that it will.


----------



## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> The camera is going back to B&H on Monday and Adorama is shipping me a new one over night on Monday and if UPS delivers on Tuesday (Veterans day) then I'll have it then and I have that day off as our baby sitter can't watch our daughter that day so hopefully I do get it then!
> 
> I'll keep you updated. I'll also mess with the MA this weekend just to learn and see if it really does help but I doubt that it will.



Also - shoot in different conditions... get out and shoot in the day, see what the 7D2 does. It seems like your samples are all shot in low-light which, again, is where AF notoriously struggles.


----------



## Ebrahim Saadawi (Nov 7, 2014)

Draw an X on a wall, select center AF point and put the camera on a tripod, take a shot and post here. It's easy. 

If you find consistent front or back mis-focus then you need MFA. 

Without a simple test to know if the camera is focusing correctly on a chosen subject we can't help.


----------



## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

justsomedude said:


> JRPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > The camera is going back to B&H on Monday and Adorama is shipping me a new one over night on Monday and if UPS delivers on Tuesday (Veterans day) then I'll have it then and I have that day off as our baby sitter can't watch our daughter that day so hopefully I do get it then!
> ...



I agree but in the same setting with the 7DI it worked fine... I did take some photos last weekend outside and the same problem happened, 1 out of 3 were out of focus.

When I do get out and shoot wildlife, depending on the animal I do take rapid bursts of photos and that is critical- I don't want to worry about that with this model that I have so let's hope the new one works better. 

I know that moving to a new camera takes a lot of time, at first I really did not like the 7DI coming from a 40D but once I got to understand the system it worked very well. I didn't have the focal problems that I'm experiencing, it was more of the newer features the 40D did not have and lack of understanding.


----------



## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > JRPhotos said:
> ...



I know you don't want to hear it again, but I don't think you should be using the 7DI as your point of comparison. Cameras are different and vary from system to system - especially models that are removed by 5 years. That said, you may still have an issue with yours, and an exchange will demonstrate whether or not that is the case.

Moving forward, I do not think you should be afraid/concerned with MF adjustments. I've never had a camera body that worked consistently with 100% of my lenses until MFA was performed. It's a painstaking/tedious process, but necessary for those among us who want repeatable/tack-sharp photos. Here is a good cut-out target you can make... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29571216/MicroFocus%20Adjustment.v2.pdf

You need an angled and labeled target so you can determine if your MFA is in front of, or behind, your base condition. It's worth playing with/learning, so you can get better at it in the future. FYI - aim for the zero marker!


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 7, 2014)

justsomedude said:


> Here is a good cut-out target you can make... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29571216/MicroFocus%20Adjustment.v2.pdf
> 
> You need an angled and labeled target so you can determine if your MFA is in front of, or behind, your base condition. It's worth playing with/learning, so you can get better at it in the future. FYI - aim for the zero marker!



Thanks for the link, that's one of the better DIY options available. Most DIY options are flat, and using them at an angle is not optimal for testing the AF system (actual AF points are larger than the little boxes in the VF, and cover many of the 'lines' on the charts - you know you want to focus on a particular one, your camera does not). 

FYI, I'd _not_ recommend focusing on the zero marker after assembling the linked chart, for the reason above (the camera doesn't know which of the horizontal lines under the AF point you mean). Rather, use the focus target built right into the chart, the checkerboard pattern indicated below. After assembly, that will end up as a vertical surface (parallel to the camera's image sensor, the best orientation for a focus target) as the chart designer intended. That's why I like this chart, it recapitulates the good features of the commercial tools like LensAlign. My DIY suggestion (below) using a ruler is another option.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 7, 2014)

justsomedude said:


> JRPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > justsomedude said:
> ...



Will this work on 8.5 x 11 paper?


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## justsomedude (Nov 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> FYI, I'd _not_ recommend focusing on the zero marker after assembling the linked chart, for the reason above (the camera doesn't know which of the horizontal lines under the AF point you mean).



Thanks for the correction!


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## takesome1 (Nov 7, 2014)

Ignore all of the AFMA posts.

Since your still within the 30 day return period send it back and do an AFRA instead. (Auto Focus Return Adjustment).

30 days from now if you are having the problem then do the adjustments.


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## Nethawk (Nov 7, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> The camera is going back to B&H on Monday and Adorama is shipping me a new one over night on Monday and if UPS delivers on Tuesday (Veterans day) then I'll have it then and I have that day off as our baby sitter can't watch our daughter that day so hopefully I do get it then!
> 
> I'll keep you updated. I'll also mess with the MA this weekend just to learn and see if it really does help but I doubt that it will.



Good move. I can't believe the number of responses indicating abject denial. I wouldn't have hesitated, but then your experience is identical to mine with the original 7D. Let's hope your replacement is much better.


----------



## wyldeguy (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks to this thread I decided to go and check all my lenses. Turns out I had one that really needed a lot of adjustment. Hopefully the OP's new one doesn't need any adjustment or very little. Just FYI my Sigma 24-70 was in severe need of adjustment. Needed 17-20 in both. My canon 50 f1.4 didn't need any.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Nov 8, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just took a bunch of photos in Live View with and without the flash, all are very consistent.... If this is front or back focusing, would another 7DII do this? I've been trying to mess with the MA but it's very confusing to me even after reading the CLC document.


i have a solution for u
i was at photo plus expo 2014 here in nyc last week
i as the canon techs bout the 7D 2 specifically bout shooting fashion and portraits
dey told me this NEVER LET THE CAMERA PICK YA FOCUS POINTS
GO THE AF MENU AND THE SLIDERS "DEPENDING ON WHAT U SHOOT DAILY OR WEEKLY SET THEM ALL SEPARATELY
CASE 1: TRACKING SENSITIVITY PUT IT ON 0 OR +1 ACCEL/DECEL ON 1 & AF AUTO PT SWITCHING AT 1

PUT CASES 2-6 ON THE SAME SETTINGS

GO TOO MENU AND SELECT AF AREA SELECT MODE 
AND MAKE SURE THESE OPTIONS "ONLY" ARE SELECTED/CHECKED
THE 1ST 5 OPTIONS MUST BE CHECK AND LEAVE OPTIONS 6-7 UNCHECKED "THOSE ARE AUTO FOCUS POINT SELECTIONS "BASICALLY THE CAMERA GOES HUNTING FOR POINTS DAY OR NIGHT CAUSING BLUR AND OUT OF FOCUS PICS

TRY WHAT I WROTE ^^ WITH DIFFERENT LENS
AND TELL ME HOW IT GOES


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## wickidwombat (Nov 8, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> I just want to be sure I understand everyone, if a camera takes good and bad photos of a subject with not setting changes it's a AFMA problem? I would think that it would be consistent.



try AFMA

but also consider this

My first 5Dmk3 when it very first came out couldnt focus on a barn door it was woefull i swapped it out for a new camera which was perfect out of the box turned out the first one had a faulty AF module.

its the price of being on the bleeding edge.

Try AFMA if its still no good see if swapping bodies helps


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 8, 2014)

As I noted earlier, your idea of replacing it is a good one, The fact that liveview AF is consistent and accurate points directly to a AF system issue, and if AFMA does not help, its a lost cause.

You have tried all the suggestions with no solution.

I returned my original pre-ordered 7D and later bought a refurb for half the price that I felt was much better. Even so, it was still a crop sensor, and paled by comparison to my 5D MK II and my 1D MK III. I'd take a 1D MK IV any day over a 7D MK II, I had to sell mine due to Carpal Tunnel, or I'd still have it.


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## justsomedude (Nov 8, 2014)

Nethawk said:


> I wouldn't have hesitated, but then your experience is identical to mine with the original 7D. Let's hope your replacement is much better.



Don't get me started on the original 7D. You can probably find my 4 year old posts in here somewhere, ranting about how awful my experience was. 

It gives me palpitations just thinking about it.


----------



## Steve (Nov 9, 2014)

takesome1 said:


> Ignore all of the AFMA posts.
> 
> Since your still within the 30 day return period send it back and do an AFRA instead. (Auto Focus Return Adjustment).
> 
> 30 days from now if you are having the problem then do the adjustments.



Yes, definitely don't take an hour or so to do some simple testing and calibration but definitely do pay postage and wait several days for a replacement camera. Excellent advice.


----------



## Sportsgal501 (Nov 9, 2014)

Steve said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ignore all of the AFMA posts.
> ...



And that's IF they have a replacement camera on hand to send right away.


----------



## DominoDude (Nov 9, 2014)

I once had problem eating soup. The spoon just didn't give me what I expected. It was either refuse to eat, or demand a new spoon.

The easy option would have been to turn the spoon 180° in the hand... :


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## justsomedude (Nov 10, 2014)

Sportsgal501 said:


> And that's IF they have a replacement camera on hand to send right away.



They do. He said he's getting one over-nighted from Adorama.


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 10, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> JRPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > I just want to clarify, I retook some photos using the single AF point, same results, 1-2 out of 3 photos were out of focus.
> ...


----------



## MichaelHodges (Nov 10, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> So far I've been pretty dissapointed with this camera. It seems as though the majority of the photos are coming out soft or out of focus. I can't keep chimping at my photos to make sure that they are right when I'm shooting portraits, etc.



This is my experience in general with Canon's high MP crop sensors when using telephoto. But the 7D was the worst. the "hit rate" just seems off.


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## MichaelHodges (Nov 10, 2014)

justsomedude said:


> it's giving me sweats (and nightmares of my old 7DI, which was a victim of the melted-hay syndrome, even after 4 replacements from Canon Irvine).



I'm not seeing the classic melted hay 7D look on my 70D as much. My hope is the 7D2 will be the same.


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## MichaelHodges (Nov 10, 2014)

justsomedude said:


> Nethawk said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't have hesitated, but then your experience is identical to mine with the original 7D. Let's hope your replacement is much better.
> ...




I had to chuckle at this. Understand completely.


----------



## Woody (Nov 10, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > it's giving me sweats (and nightmares of my old 7DI, which was a victim of the melted-hay syndrome, even after 4 replacements from Canon Irvine).
> ...



I don't think the 70D is that much better than 7D. That is why I sold both 7D and 70D.

Hopefully, the 7D2 complaint is a one-off thing. We'll see.


----------



## monkey44 (Nov 10, 2014)

Been shooting with mine for a week -- had a few "deletes' at the beginning, while I figured out the settings and technique for this camera.

After that, smooth sailing -- getting sharp and on target images. Have yet to push the AF system, but it will get that workout probably this week sometime ... So, far, NO complaints here. But then again, I had no complaint about the 7D doing its job either. 

I've always been puzzled by the number of shooters that have trouble with 7D, and can't get it to shoot how they want it to shoot. It's a fine camera for what it's designed for -- sport and wildlife action -- not deep and penetrating landscapes. So, I'm liking my 7D2 just fine at this point, and feel the money is well spent. Definitely a 'big brother' to the 7D ... 

I shoot with the 5DM3 as well, and find 7D2 on par with that and the pair together fill a great bag, and cover pretty much anything out there that deserves pushing that button.


----------



## Northbird (Nov 10, 2014)

monkey44 said:


> Been shooting with mine for a week -- had a few "deletes' at the beginning, while I figured out the settings and technique for this camera.
> 
> After that, smooth sailing -- getting sharp and on target images. Have yet to push the AF system, but it will get that workout probably this week sometime ... So, far, NO complaints here. But then again, I had no complaint about the 7D doing its job either.
> 
> ...



+1 on all counts here. My experience with the Mark II has been very positive. There is a bit of a learning curve with the new AF system that requires a thorough read of the manual. I also found the Canon video tutorials useful. The Mark II is now a permanent part of my kit ..... love it.


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## JRPhotos (Nov 10, 2014)

The replacement came in today, I've only had about an hour to experiment due to the battery not being fully charged. It's going to take me awhile to get my menus and settings back to the way I had it (too bad you can't export the settings).

So far, I feel that the first camera I had was a lemon. The majority of my photos are very sharp and in focus. I have tomorrow off and will test it even more. 

Another odd thing with the other camera, I had the setting set to show me the focal points when reviewing photos, those did not always show but on this camera it is.

The white balance isn't perfect but it looks great @ f1.4, ISO 800, 1/100:






Here's one without the flash, f/2.8, 1/60, ISO 2000, wow, the 7D would have had so much noise:


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 10, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> The replacement came in today, I've only had about an hour to experiment due to the battery not being fully charged. It's going to take me awhile to get my menus and settings back to the way I had it (too bad you can't export the settings).
> 
> So far, I feel that the first camera I had was a lemon. The majority of my photos are very sharp and in focus. I have tomorrow off and will test it even more.
> 
> ...



I hope it works out. Cameras are sometimes defective, and its best to quickly replace a questionable one rather than fighting it. Even if its working properly, if you are not happy with it, don't keep it.


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## Lee Jay (Nov 11, 2014)

You really should activate the little-known but highly-useful "remove food from face" custom function.


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## NancyP (Nov 11, 2014)

In my limited experience, that "remove food from face" function can't keep up with human faces of under 4 years of age.


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## Maui5150 (Nov 11, 2014)

NancyP said:


> In my limited experience, that "remove food from face" function can't keep up with human faces of under 4 years of age.



You have to add the NyQuil filter... That really seems to slow down the action and get everything clean and tack sharp


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## nate7520 (Nov 11, 2014)

I seem to be having similar issues as the OP. I got mine on October 30th along with a brand new canon 50 1.4 and got right to fiddling around with settings and taking pictures of my cats, that night I got quite a few soft/out of focus images, but figured it was being new to the camera and lens or maybe that it needed afma. the next day I shot some photos of people dressed up for Halloween with my canon 17-55 2.8 (which I have had for a while and had no issues with on a T2i body) surprisingly still had lots of soft/out of focus images that mostly seemed to be front focused. I figured afma would be the solution, so I attempted to perform afma on all my lenses with the help of some online articles. after that results with my 50 1.4 and other lenses seemed to improve, but I still was getting a relatively high number of out of focus images for non action shots of people and my cats. (all of this was with one shot mode)

next I got to shoot some action shots at a bike race using AI servo mode and zone af with a canon 70-200 F4L. with this setup I had very few out of focus shots, despite tracking fast moving subjects. I was very pleased with the camera for action.

I continued to shoot non moving subjects in one shot mode and continued to be disappointed with the results, so I figured another attempt at afma might help, this time with the help a commercial afma setup tool. (the datacolor Spyderlenscal) with this tool and my canon 400 5.6L in one shot focus mode I am getting frustrated trying to get it calibrated, if I get it set when coming in to focus from mfd setting then it is significantly back focused when coming into focus from infinity. I have found however that when using ai servo mode I get sharp images either way, it's almost as if the camera thinks (in one shot mode) it has locked on before it has fully focused and stops, leaving a margin of error. but in ai servo mode the camera continues to hunt a tiny bit until it has found perfect focus.

I will be interested to see if the OP's camera was indeed a lemon (looks like that is the case) or if it is just a matter of getting used to the camera and properly performing afma.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 11, 2014)

nate7520 said:


> I seem to be having similar issues as the OP. I got mine on October 30th along with a brand new canon 50 1.4 and got right to fiddling around with settings and taking pictures of my cats, that night I got quite a few soft/out of focus images, but figured it was being new to the camera and lens or maybe that it needed afma. the next day I shot some photos of people dressed up for Halloween with my canon 17-55 2.8 (which I have had for a while and had no issues with on a T2i body) surprisingly still had lots of soft/out of focus images that mostly seemed to be front focused. I figured afma would be the solution, so I attempted to perform afma on all my lenses with the help of some online articles. after that results with my 50 1.4 and other lenses seemed to improve, but I still was getting a relatively high number of out of focus images for non action shots of people and my cats. (all of this was with one shot mode)
> 
> next I got to shoot some action shots at a bike race using AI servo mode and zone af with a canon 70-200 F4L. with this setup I had very few out of focus shots, despite tracking fast moving subjects. I was very pleased with the camera for action.
> 
> ...


 
I always test out new cameras in a simple manner, fixed to a sturdy tripod and single shot. Once I've proven to myself that the photos are sharp, and AF is consistent, then I try hand held shots. If there is a AF issue, its always been me.

On the other hand, if a controlled test results in a AF issue, back it goes.


----------



## JRPhotos (Nov 11, 2014)

nate7520 said:


> I seem to be having similar issues as the OP. I got mine on October 30th along with a brand new canon 50 1.4 and got right to fiddling around with settings and taking pictures of my cats, that night I got quite a few soft/out of focus images, but figured it was being new to the camera and lens or maybe that it needed afma. the next day I shot some photos of people dressed up for Halloween with my canon 17-55 2.8 (which I have had for a while and had no issues with on a T2i body) surprisingly still had lots of soft/out of focus images that mostly seemed to be front focused. I figured afma would be the solution, so I attempted to perform afma on all my lenses with the help of some online articles. after that results with my 50 1.4 and other lenses seemed to improve, but I still was getting a relatively high number of out of focus images for non action shots of people and my cats. (all of this was with one shot mode)
> 
> next I got to shoot some action shots at a bike race using AI servo mode and zone af with a canon 70-200 F4L. with this setup I had very few out of focus shots, despite tracking fast moving subjects. I was very pleased with the camera for action.
> 
> ...



I'd send it back. So far, my photos have been much better with the replacement.


----------



## 2n10 (Nov 11, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> nate7520 said:
> 
> 
> > I seem to be having similar issues as the OP. I got mine on October 30th along with a brand new canon 50 1.4 and got right to fiddling around with settings and taking pictures of my cats, that night I got quite a few soft/out of focus images, but figured it was being new to the camera and lens or maybe that it needed afma. the next day I shot some photos of people dressed up for Halloween with my canon 17-55 2.8 (which I have had for a while and had no issues with on a T2i body) surprisingly still had lots of soft/out of focus images that mostly seemed to be front focused. I figured afma would be the solution, so I attempted to perform afma on all my lenses with the help of some online articles. after that results with my 50 1.4 and other lenses seemed to improve, but I still was getting a relatively high number of out of focus images for non action shots of people and my cats. (all of this was with one shot mode)
> ...



I agree with sending back if you get inconsistent AF. I just got mine and it appears to be very consistent.


----------



## nate7520 (Nov 13, 2014)

I seem to have found one problem with my test setup, I was shooting with my camera on a sturdy tripod pointed at a focus target lit with a 250 watt hotlight, and I was triggering my camera with a canon RC-6 with a 2 second timer and mirror lockup. everything should be good right? It seems that the RC-6 remote doesn't achieve as accurate a focus as a regular half press of the shutter button. I figured this out by getting a canon RS-80N3 remote shutter release and doing my focus testing with that, it seems to be more consistent. I guess the focus priority is different when using the RC-6 kind of like how you can change the focus priority for first shot in AI servo mode. Also note that this focus inaccuracy is very small, you wouldn't notice it unless viewing at 100%

I still have more lenses to do afma on, and hopefully they turn out well, but it is starting to look like the issues I had with real world shooting may have been because I was new to the camera and had not yet properly adjusted my lenses. I am still not sure though so I will still keep a keen eye out for focus inconsistencies when testing the rest of my lenses.


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## Jon_D (Nov 13, 2014)

so quality testing is not much improved at canon factorys as it seems.

i read a lot about AF problems with the new 7D II on forums.

you should expect some people having issues with a new AF system but the troubles seem to be fixed in any case with a replacement camera. :


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## RodS57 (Nov 16, 2014)

After seeing the posts related to focus issues I fabricated a flat target from 5mm thick yellow craft foam and narrow black masking tape so I had a high contrast target. Target was set up about 10 meters from camera; camera on tripod. Using the tamron I took shots at 150 and 600mm with MFA adjustments from -10 to +10. None of the shots with the7D2 where in focus. I put the lens on my T3i and, without adjustments of course, took the same shots. Again, none were in focus. Finally I tried with my 70-300L with similar out of focus results.

Apparently I built a focus target that cameras can't focus on. Will contact USAF to see if they want to use it in their stealth technology. 8)

Rod


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## 2n10 (Nov 17, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> After seeing the posts related to focus issues I fabricated a flat target from 5mm thick yellow craft foam and narrow black masking tape so I had a high contrast target. Target was set up about 10 meters from camera; camera on tripod. Using the tamron I took shots at 150 and 600mm with MFA adjustments from -10 to +10. None of the shots with the7D2 where in focus. I put the lens on my T3i and, without adjustments of course, took the same shots. Again, none were in focus. Finally I tried with my 70-300L with similar out of focus results.
> 
> Apparently I built a focus target that cameras can't focus on. Will contact USAF to see if they want to use it in their stealth technology. 8)
> 
> Rod



Wow Rod, you gave me a nice grin to start the day. Sorry you are having trouble. It seems folks with tamrons and sigmas are unfortunately having problems. Might need the lens reprogrammed to work with the 7D2.

I have decided to return mine for an exchange do to focusing issues after trying all of the suggestions given to others and anything else my twisted mind could come up with. 

Hope you can work your issue out quickly.


----------



## RodS57 (Nov 17, 2014)

2n10 said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > After seeing the posts related to focus issues I fabricated a flat target from 5mm thick yellow craft foam and narrow black masking tape so I had a high contrast target. Target was set up about 10 meters from camera; camera on tripod. Using the tamron I took shots at 150 and 600mm with MFA adjustments from -10 to +10. None of the shots with the7D2 where in focus. I put the lens on my T3i and, without adjustments of course, took the same shots. Again, none were in focus. Finally I tried with my 70-300L with similar out of focus results.
> ...



I am not sure I am having problems. 75% of my pictures so far have been test shots. Just trying different settings. With the focus test target I was curious to see if there would be noticeable difference with the adjustments. As I noted, the test failed but after posting I remembered someone posting similar results last winter. In that scenario he was taking pictures from inside his car through an open window. With the temperature difference inside and outside the car he couldn't get a good shot. I shot from inside my house out through the open patio door. Inside +20C; outside -10C. As a result I think I ended up with a lot of thermal distortion which wasn't apparent to the naked eye.

I am still waiting for a good day to use the camera in a real life situation. Due to my location I don't expect to see above freezing temperatures again until late April. I don't mind that but it does make things more difficult.

Rod


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 18, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> ... I fabricated a flat target from 5mm thick yellow craft foam and narrow black masking tape so I had a high contrast target.
> 
> Apparently I built a focus target that cameras can't focus on. Will contact USAF to see if they want to use it in their stealth technology.



Rod, would you be willing to post a picture of your DIY 'stealth target'? Thanks!


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## Lee Jay (Nov 18, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > ... I fabricated a flat target from 5mm thick yellow craft foam and narrow black masking tape so I had a high contrast target.
> ...



Weren't you paying attention? It can't be photographed. Sort of like a genuine UFO.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 18, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > RodS57 said:
> ...



LOL. I'm sure Live View would work. Perhaps even that archaic technology called manual focusing.


----------



## ashmadux (Nov 18, 2014)

Sportsgal501 said:


> JRPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > Sportsgal501 said:
> ...



I would not introduce him to the 6D Af if he's having this issue with a much better Af system like this.


----------



## rrcphoto (Nov 18, 2014)

Jon_D said:


> so quality testing is not much improved at canon factorys as it seems.
> 
> i read a lot about AF problems with the new 7D II on forums.
> 
> you should expect some people having issues with a new AF system but the troubles seem to be fixed in any case with a replacement camera. :



Have you ever seen what couriers can do to packages?


----------



## Sportsgal501 (Nov 18, 2014)

ashmadux said:


> Sportsgal501 said:
> 
> 
> > JRPhotos said:
> ...



He sent it back and got a replacement a few days later, which focused 100% it apparently was a "faulty camera".


----------



## RodS57 (Nov 19, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



To be quite honest I have no idea how to post a picture here. Never posted picture online anywhere. Not sure if I have any pics left or if I deleted all of them. The target was quite simple: the foam was bright yellow and about 9x8 inches. The lines were made from 1/4 inch wide black masking tape. I just had a couple of vertical lines and a couple of horizontal lines with a dot (more a small rectangle) of tape in the middle. It looked like a cross up in the left hand corner with a long right arm and the same pattern inverted for the lower right hand corner.

It's still in my basement. Haven't sent it to nasa yet. 

Rod


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## RodS57 (Nov 21, 2014)

DominoDude said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > > Cleans up the nested quotes...
> ...



As you posted how to submit a picture I will do so. I've deleted the 'stealth target' shots but I can do the test again no problem. The attached shot isn't great. It was shot with the tamron 150-600; F7.1; ISO 100 @ 1/500 sec. Camera was set to case 1 AI servo with the centre block of focus points active. The camera did focus on the fence a couple of times and then went back to the jet. I had it set to 5 fps. What caused the blur? Don't know: panning technique; stabilization in the on position while moving the lens; focus moving either to or from the fence or maybe a real issue. Don't know. Need some more real world tests. So far nothing has come close in sharpness to the T3i that I have. Especially with the 70-300L attached.

Anyway, not really sure how many people on this forum have seen a rear wheel drive jet taking off 

Rod


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## yaterman98 (Nov 21, 2014)

Had mine for 2 weeks will not focus right using single point.I Know its not right, have both 1dx an 5d3.This is the first time i ever sent a camera back. Hope a replacement will be working right. I even let a friend use it an did not say anything about the focus problem an he noticed the focus problem.


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## jeffa4444 (Nov 21, 2014)

ashmadux said:


> Sportsgal501 said:
> 
> 
> > JRPhotos said:
> ...



Ive the 6d and used it alot for portraits with center point focusing on the eye/s never had a problem.


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## RodS57 (Nov 22, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > ... I fabricated a flat target from 5mm thick yellow craft foam and narrow black masking tape so I had a high contrast target.
> ...



I actually used the target in the basement this evening. I used regular electrical tape to add thicker angled lines. No apparent problems focusing from about 24 feet. I didn't take any pictures. I just set it up to try the dot tune method for adjusting my lenses. The tamron ended up at -3 on the wide end and +2 on the long end (At least at 24 feet). My 70-300L came in at +2 on both ends. If weather permits I will test things out tomorrow. Also try to remember to take a picture of the target.

Rod


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 22, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > RodS57 said:
> ...



When you are checking the accuracy of dot tune (which for me is not 100%) take some shots of a sheet of newspaper on a wall and see how the sharpness is on fine print. You can really only trust what you can see when a shot is taken, not what the electronics are reporting.


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## Sabaki (Nov 22, 2014)

So I had my first real run today with my Canon 7D mark ii and sadly, I have a lemon.

80%+ of my images are showing a focus point on Canon's ZoomBrowser, that were nowhere near where the camera confirmed during the shot being taken.

I'll be asking for a straight swap out, can't keep this body 

Here's the best of an unsharp bunch


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 22, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> So I had my first real run today with my Canon 7D mark ii and sadly, I have a lemon.
> 
> 80%+ of my images are showing a focus point on Canon's ZoomBrowser, that were nowhere near where the camera confirmed during the shot being taken.
> 
> ...



Focuspoints in zoom browser or DPP are not accurate. They only give you a general idea of which point was active and where. I wouldnt consider the camera a lemon because of a software issue. More likely you need to micro focus adjust your camera to your lens.


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## Sabaki (Nov 22, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > So I had my first real run today with my Canon 7D mark ii and sadly, I have a lemon.
> ...



Can I add lenses my camera doesn't recognize?


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## DavidA (Nov 22, 2014)

I had a problem with OOF shots and finally decided to exchange the camera. Here is the note I sent in with the camera for exchange. 

Exchange of Canon EOS 7d MII 

I believe the enclosed camera (7D Mark II) is defective and has a focus issue at extreme telephoto ranges. I was using lenses that were calibrated by CPS and they are sharp on my 5dIII. I tried a variety of focus options including MFA in an attempt to acquire accurate focus at long telephoto ranges. Results were similar with single shot, AI Servo, single point AF, Expanded AF and Area AF. 

Core Problem: At the long end of zoom and prime telephoto, images are at varying degrees of OOF. Very few acceptable images and even those are not “sharp”. 

Experience level: Very experienced. Currently own Canon 5d M III, G15, Sony RX 100 MIII, and shoot with 1dX on big trips. Have previously owned 1Ds, 5d, 5d M II, 7d, 10d, 20d, 30d, 40d and a variety of G series. I typically upgrade when new technology is available or my shooting needs change. I primarily shoot wildlife and nature. 

Test Subject: Wild geese on a pond near my home, just floating and looking for food. Some shots were when they were out of the water feeding on the bank. 

Weather Conditions: Perfect afternoon fall light in mountains (3:00-5:00 pm). I shot for about 30 minutes each day over 3 days, checked results on 27” iMAC to determine if anything could be technique related. Had IS on for a few shots on tripod, but couldn’t spot any other technique or setting issues that could have caused OOF issue. 

ISO, Shutter speed, Aperture - ISO was 400-800, Shutter speed was 1/500 - 1/1000, aperture was f4.0 - f11. Kept these balanced for the optimal shutter speed/DOF based on the focal length of the lens. 

Lenses - Canon EF 300 f4 L IS, Canon EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II, Canon EF 1.4x TC III was used for some shots. No filters and all of the lenses were clean. AF was selected on both lenses. 

Tripod - 80-90% of Shots were on Gitzo Tripod with RRS ball head. IS was OFF for tripod shots. 

AF Method - Case 1 & Case 2, Single Shot & AI Focus, Single point, Expanded, Expanded Area. In reviewing the files in DPP, the active focus point was on the head/neck of the bird or over the body if they are at extreme range. The Geese were mostly at the far end of the range for this lens combination. These were wild geese and I couldn’t get them close enough to fill the frame with the lenses I had available. 

Camera settings - After the first day, I reset the camera to factory defaults with the exception of back button focus, Image quality (RAW + large JPEG), and selecting the different AF settings provided by the camera. After reset, I DID NOT change any of the custom settings like release or focus priority on AF. 

Review of the RAW images in DPP (I also checked the JPEG images). I did apply sharpening to attempt to pull out a sharper image. Images were pretty much perfectly exposed except for a few shots where they were against a darker background. While there were a few passable shots (less than 5%), most of the images appeared to be different levels of OOF. There was no motion blur in the images. 

I think the features of the 7d MII are great. I also believe the camera is capable of better images than I was able to produce with this copy of the body. I have enough experience with APS-C sensors to know what to expect from the sensor and this looks like there are focus issues with this particular camera at longer focal lengths on distant images. I am not perfect, but this was a relatively controlled environment and I took enough shots that I should have had one or two really good images of the subject. I finally had to give up before I put too many shots on the camera. 

Please provide a factory new unit as exchange or take this as a return if a new exchange is not possible. I do not want a refurb or repair since this is a new camera.


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 22, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Sabaki said:
> ...



Not sure I understand your question. Are you asking about AFMA on a 3rd party lens?


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## RodS57 (Nov 23, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> When you are checking the accuracy of dot tune (which for me is not 100%) take some shots of a sheet of newspaper on a wall and see how the sharpness is on fine print. You can really only trust what you can see when a shot is taken, not what the electronics are reporting.



I have never said I had a problem. For me it has always been 'do I have a problem?' There are a lot of people on this forum and elsewhere that have the experience, knowledge and skill to know when they have a piece of hardware with a problem. I am in the other 99%. I am sure there are quite a few people who do have a problem with their camera (not specifically the 7D2) but, like myself, do not have the background to positively say it is the camera. I always blame bad shots on user error. Today was the first sunny day I've seen on a weekend since my camera arrived. As a result I've had little time to practice and get to know the camera in real world situations and even today, it was all about what the camera works like and not trying to get 'the' shot.

With testing in mind. There are 4 pictures attached. In each case there is the resized original followed by a 100% crop. The pictures are SOOC jpgs. All shots at ISO 100 with the 70-300L, only centre focus point and at 300mm (I've set MFA to +2 for this lens). First pair at F5.7, 1/1000 sec, range is about 120 feet. Second pair F6.3, 1/400 sec, range about 25-30 feet. In the first crop the muskrat does look a little soft but judging from the surroundings focus seems to be well placed. The second crop looks like it is suffering from a lack of depth of field and maybe a bit low on the shutter speed to completely freeze the movement but focus looks ok.

Comments anyone?

Rod


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 24, 2014)

No worries Rod. I sometimes reply to comments knowing that others are reading since this is a public forum. One thing I willadd that it's difficult to judge sharpness when shooting over ice. Many times I've thought I've had a problem only to discover that the distortions were my problem.

Really try to set up a controlled environment. I just finished AFMA calibrations on my 600 and once it was locked the images are now tack sharp. Again the newspaper on the wall trick is a great way to test things out and verify all is as expected.


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## candc (Nov 24, 2014)

I am having a hard time not making a wise crack about the "beaver shot". I think rhe comment about shooting over the ice is a good point. It looks to be focused in the right spot but the seeing conditions are bad. Its hard to get a clear shot shooting over melting ice or open water in the winter.


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## RodS57 (Nov 24, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> No worries Rod. I sometimes reply to comments knowing that others are reading since this is a public forum. One thing I willadd that it's difficult to judge sharpness when shooting over ice. Many times I've thought I've had a problem only to discover that the distortions were my problem.
> 
> Really try to set up a controlled environment. I just finished AFMA calibrations on my 600 and once it was locked the images are now tack sharp. Again the newspaper on the wall trick is a great way to test things out and verify all is as expected.



To you and GraFax. Will have to try the newspaper test or actually a slight modification of it: a couple of large pages of small text from a laser printer so I will have clean, sharp edges. As for the pictures I posted I didn't get any nasty surprises. At this point I think my copy of the 7D2 does not exhibit the focus problems others have mentioned. ( consistently OOF images, random front/back focus) At least not with the lens I used today.

Thanks for comments and suggestions. Now I have to wait for another nice day off to shoot some more 

Rod


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## RodS57 (Nov 24, 2014)

candc said:


> I am having a hard time not making a wise crack about the "beaver shot". I think rhe comment about shooting over the ice is a good point. It looks to be focused in the right spot but the seeing conditions are bad. Its hard to get a clear shot shooting over melting ice or open water in the winter.



We are sliding into the deep freeze here. Conditions will push the camera and my skills to the limit. Not a good time of year to get a new camera for outdoor shooting but I didn't want to get caught in a long wait like I did last winter with the tamron 150-600. That being said, winter can yield amazing pictures if you get it right.

I also think the focus range is in the correct area. The focus point was on the not a beaver. Difficult conditions, yes. The ice reflects a lot of heat so it is hard to get clear shots at a low angle. On the up side, as it gets colder the number of sunny days increases as really cold air carries very little moisture.

Rod


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## RodS57 (Nov 27, 2014)

GraFax said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for comments and suggestions. Now I have to wait for another nice day off to shoot some more
> ...



Quick question. Using dot tune method I have the tamron 150-600 set to +3 on the wide end and -2 on the long end. A quick test showed it is definitely front focusing at 250. Are the micro adjustments linear along the zoom range. In other words the adjustment range is 5 over the focal length so is it safe to assume it has moved from +3 at 150 to about +2 at 250. I have it pushed up to +6 on the wide end now and have taken more shots. Trying to figure out which direction to work on regarding the adjustments.

Thanks
Rod


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> Quick question. Using dot tune method I have the tamron 150-600 set to +3 on the wide end and -2 on the long end. A quick test showed it is definitely front focusing at 250. Are the micro adjustments linear along the zoom range. In other words the adjustment range is 5 over the focal length so is it safe to assume it has moved from +3 at 150 to about +2 at 250. I have it pushed up to +6 on the wide end now and have taken more shots. Trying to figure out which direction to work on regarding the adjustments.



It's a simple linear regression between the W and T values. Here are my confirmatory data, tested with 4 different lenses set to W = -10 and T = +10:







FWIW, I've found 'dot tune' to be somewhat unreliable.


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## RodS57 (Nov 28, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > Quick question. Using dot tune method I have the tamron 150-600 set to +3 on the wide end and -2 on the long end. A quick test showed it is definitely front focusing at 250. Are the micro adjustments linear along the zoom range. In other words the adjustment range is 5 over the focal length so is it safe to assume it has moved from +3 at 150 to about +2 at 250. I have it pushed up to +6 on the wide end now and have taken more shots. Trying to figure out which direction to work on regarding the adjustments.
> ...



Thanks. I'm getting in a few shots when I come home for lunch. Not a controlled situation with tripod and measured distances but it gives me good separation between the different MFA settings. Image sharpness is much better now at 250mm so I've started to work on the back focus on the long end. I've found the almost black roof rack on my white Ford explorer to be an excellent test subject for these quickie lunchtime tests. 

Rod


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## digital paradise (Nov 30, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > Quick question. Using dot tune method I have the tamron 150-600 set to +3 on the wide end and -2 on the long end. A quick test showed it is definitely front focusing at 250. Are the micro adjustments linear along the zoom range. In other words the adjustment range is 5 over the focal length so is it safe to assume it has moved from +3 at 150 to about +2 at 250. I have it pushed up to +6 on the wide end now and have taken more shots. Trying to figure out which direction to work on regarding the adjustments.
> ...



I'm trying to understand this graph. It is showing all 4 lenses need to be set from -10 to +10?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 30, 2014)

digital paradise said:


> I'm trying to understand this graph. It is showing all 4 lenses need to be set from -10 to +10?



No, I just arbitrarily set to W = -10 and T = +10, and moved the zoom ring from the wide to the tele end in small increments taking a shot each time. I then looked at the recorded EXIF for each shot, which shows the focal length and the AMFA applied to each image, and plotted those values for each lens (each point is an image). The point was to test how the camera determines the AFMA value to use for focal lengths between the extreme ends of a zoom lens. It seemed logical that it would be a simple linear regression, but I wanted to confirm that empirically (unlikely, but maybe it would use the W value from the wide end to the midpoint of the zoom, then the T value from the midpoint to the long end, for example). I chose four lenses ranging from a 2x zoom (16-35) to an 11x zoom (28-300).

Practically, when I do AFMA on zoom lenses, I do both ends and some intermediate focal lengths. For 2-3x zooms (16-35, 70-200), I test one or two intermediate FL (e.g. 16-24-35 and 70-135-200 for those lenses, or 24-35-50-70 for a 24-70). For 4x zooms, I test two intermediate FLs (e.g. 24-50-85-105 or 100-200-300-400. You have to draw the line somewhere, so for the 28-300L I tested 28-50-100-200-300. Basically, I want to know that when I set W and T values, the intermediate FLs fall on that regression line. For example, my 24-70/2.8L II needs W = 0 and T = +5, and FoCal indicated +1 for 35mm and +3 for 50mm, which fall right on the regression line. If the lens had needed 0 at 35mm and +1 at 50mm, for example, then shots at intermediate FLs would not have the right AFMA and would be out of focus...and in that case, I'd have returned the lens for another copy and tried again.

Hope that makes sense, but let me know if it doesn't!


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## DP the Snapper (Nov 30, 2014)

Hi

I have set my 7DMk11 to BBF, AI Servo with the AF-ON button and One Shot using the * button.

The camera focuses when I press the AF-ON but not when I move across to One Shot with the * button.

Hopefully this just me not understanding how it works but I would be grateful for any advice.

Thanks 

Dave


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 30, 2014)

DP the Snapper said:


> Hi
> 
> I have set my 7DMk11 to BBF, AI Servo with the AF-ON button and One Shot using the * button.
> 
> ...



I would assign one shot to the DOF preview button, AF-OFF to AF-ON, and * to AF-ON AND single point AF. This way you can simultaneously hold the DOF button and either of the back buttons to achieve your goal.


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## digital paradise (Nov 30, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> digital paradise said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to understand this graph. It is showing all 4 lenses need to be set from -10 to +10?
> ...



Nope that makes sense. Thanks


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## DP the Snapper (Dec 2, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> DP the Snapper said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...



Thanks East Wind. But what I am concerned about is that when I go from the AF-ON button to the * button (or as you suggested the Depth of Field button) and try to refocus – say after tracking a flying bird that landed had a peck and then walked a few yards for a better peck (sorry about the technical language!) - it won't focus. It will focus if I hit the AF-ON button again so is the technique to do that and then hit the * for One Shot. Or is the AF not working properly?

Dave


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 3, 2014)

DP the Snapper said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > DP the Snapper said:
> ...



So maybe you misunderstood. The 7D2 has an additional custom control mode (looks like a camera). Instead of assigning a function to AF-ON only, you can select that camera icon and press INFO to check and uncheck different settings so instead of JUST AF-ON you can assign AF Control (AF-ON) AND AF spot focus. It will activate both functions when you press the button.

I have the following set up:

AF-ON set to AF-ON
* set to AF-ON and AF Spot Focus
DOF Preview set to switch between One Shot/Servo AF

I can press the DOF and * buttons to quickly go from BIF mode to one shot spot AF then back quickly to BIF mode by releasing DOF and rolling over to AF-ON....or just leave it spot AF and try to catch the eye as it takes off again.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 3, 2014)

I ran into the focusing problem today with the Canon 7Dii during my Servo Testing. It is consistently focusing behind the subject, nearly all of it's side to side test shots were out of focus. The 5Diii as a control had no issues with the same lens. 

I am looking to send it back for a swap out. Ill update if the replacement is better.


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## meywd (Dec 3, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> I ran into the focusing problem today with the Canon 7Dii during my Servo Testing. It is consistently focusing behind the subject, nearly all of it's side to side test shots were out of focus. The 5Diii as a control had no issues with the same lens.
> 
> I am looking to send it back for a swap out. Ill update if the replacement is better.



AFMA?


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## Sabaki (Dec 3, 2014)

meywd said:


> MichaelTheMaven said:
> 
> 
> > I ran into the focusing problem today with the Canon 7Dii during my Servo Testing. It is consistently focusing behind the subject, nearly all of it's side to side test shots were out of focus. The 5Diii as a control had no issues with the same lens.
> ...


meywd, this is what I did before I returned my 7Dii for a swap out.

I ran my images through Canon's ZoomBrowser to ascertain where the camera was focussing. Why? Well, via the results, I could determine whether it was merely a calibration issue or perhaps there was an issue with the focussing system/mechanism.

It was the focussing mechanism and not calibration.

Secondly, test the camera with shutter focus/release and do not setup for Back Button Focussing. This way, you can eliminate potential user issues/misunderstanding of the focussing set up and see how the images turn out.

For the record, the new copy of the camera I received works 100%, no AFMA required and it's performance is far better than the first.


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## chris1957 (Dec 3, 2014)

Hi All

Yes same issues here in the UK with my 7D MkII spoke with Canon UK they have given me a ref number to return my faulty body and get a new one. Two shoots almost lost loads of time spent fixing images in Lightroom. Not best pleased as all the chat about this camera was so good. Still willing to try a replacement.


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## meywd (Dec 3, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> meywd said:
> 
> 
> > MichaelTheMaven said:
> ...



I am glad your issue is solved, I just wanted to point that if its "consistently focusing behind the subject" it might not be a bad camera, and can be fixed with AFMA, without loosing time while the camera is away.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 3, 2014)

I have an update on my "soft focus" 7Dii. 

Turns out that if you have your AFMA turned on, even if all the settings are at "0", it can mess up your cameras focusing. I had mine turned on, with no settings adjusted and it was missing focus, turned it off, and it appears to have resolved the issue. 

I will do some sports testing tonight to confirm, but in my tests here at the house it appears to be corrected. 

MM


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 3, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> I have an update on my "soft focus" 7Dii.
> 
> Turns out that if you have your AFMA turned on, even if all the settings are at "0", it can mess up your cameras focusing. I had mine turned on, with no settings adjusted and it was missing focus, turned it off, and it appears to have resolved the issue.
> 
> ...



Was that trial and error or was that something canon recommended?


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## dolina (Dec 3, 2014)

I think the focus problems has its roots in unfamiliarity with the body or too much excitement over new gear. In other words user error.

To correct this try downloading and reading the EOS 7D Mark II AF-Setting Guidebook

http://www.brochures.canon-europe.com/getFile.php?productid=9090&languageid=-1

If the body still gives focus problems after thoroughly reading, understanding and practicing what is found in the PDF then try doing microadjustments.

Still a problem? Then send it over to Canon.

Again, I see it as most likely a user error. I myself got a lot of soft images but I put it down to a new lens + new body + not shooting in months than anything else.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> I have an update on my "soft focus" 7Dii.
> 
> Turns out that if you have your AFMA turned on, even if all the settings are at "0", it can mess up your cameras focusing. I had mine turned on, with no settings adjusted and it was missing focus, turned it off, and it appears to have resolved the issue.
> 
> I will do some sports testing tonight to confirm, but in my tests here at the house it appears to be corrected.



If there is a difference between AFMA set to Disable and set to adjust all at zero or adjust by lens with the lens at zero (W and T if a zoom), then there's most likely a firmware issue that Canon needs to address.


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 4, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> MichaelTheMaven said:
> 
> 
> > I have an update on my "soft focus" 7Dii.
> ...



or perhaps canon is doing something with DPAF when AFMA is disabled???


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## DP the Snapper (Dec 4, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> DP the Snapper said:
> 
> 
> > East Wind Photography said:
> ...



Thanks again East Wind. I really appreciate your taking your time to explain this to me and am going to adopt your method.
One last question:
After tracking the bird with AF-ON using AI Servo when it lands I take my finger off the AF-ON and hit the DoF button for One Shot. The thing that is worrying me is that if the bird walks away a short distance and stops and I just press DoF the camera doesn't focus.
Hopefully I am being rather dense and not understanding how the system works but if not then there is something wrong with the camera.

Dave


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 4, 2014)

DP the Snapper said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > DP the Snapper said:
> ...



you can press both buttons at the same time and still shoot with your index finger.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 7, 2014)

Turning off MFA when shooting at a ruler seemed to correct focusing with very wide apertures on a non-moving subject. 

So this morning, I went out to redo my servo sports test, with a different BRAND NEW Canon 7Dii, same lens 24-70 2.8 (which I know is working on my 5Diii).

More soft focusing.

Im upset about this, thats 2 Canon 7Dii Bodies in a row. Ill have access to two more later this week. Ive taken a couple thousand shots with 2 different 7Diis, about 90% or so are no good. 

This is what it looks like:


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> Turning off MFA when shooting at a ruler seemed to correct focusing with very wide apertures on a non-moving subject.
> 
> So this morning, I went out to redo my servo sports test, with a different BRAND NEW Canon 7Dii, same lens 24-70 2.8 (which I know is working on my 5Diii).
> 
> ...



That is definitely front focusing. Was this with the AFMA disabled? 20-70 2.8 mark 1 or 2? If its the mark2 model I ended up returning the lens. The AF was not consistent. If I AFMA at 8-10 ft it would not focus at infinity. If I AFMA'd for infinity then any shots up close like you would take for a small group of people were out of focus. I know you say it worked on the 5D3 but I think the AF is bit more touchy on the crop cameras. The 1.6 magnifies all errors, even focus.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

Wow that does look pretty bad. Was the first one that bad? Are you using back button focus? First thing I'd do is make sure your lens is on auto focus. You could of bumped it to manual focus and not realized it. I always check the stuff like that first. What focus mode is the camera on zone, etc? I would change the focus mode to single point and see if that makes a difference so you know it's just not one focus mode. It's weird it would be like that with 2 cameras in a row.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 7, 2014)

So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.

Yes MFA is disabled. Shooting on AI Servo, Single Square, Full High Speed Burst- 10 FPS, Av mode at 2.8, shutter speeds are usually over 1/1000, sometimes all the way up to 1/8000 depending on light. Like I said, this isn't new to me. 

Results on the 7Dii's looked as per the image posted, almost all of them, unless the subject is very close. I also did a side-to-side test, both cameras missed nearly all of them.

Tonight I thought it might be the v2 lens, so I grabbed mine and my Dads v1 (24-70 2.8 v1), his 70d and my old 7D. For some tests. 

Both 7Dii's consistently missed with all three lenses. 

The v2 and my Dad's v1 works GREAT on my 7D and sufficiently good on the 70D, though there were some misses. 

If the V2 is working on other cameras, and not any of my 7Diis, Im coming to the conclusion there could be some focusing problems with the 7Dii itself. Maybe not all of them, but the 7D whopped both of them tonight in terms of focusing accuracy with the same lenses they were using.

Ill have to return both of them and I am hoping their replacements will be better.

Just my opinion, if someone spends $1800 on a camera, it should be working right out of the box. 

The requirement to have to Micro Adjust a Brand new body, to me, seems crazy. 

Ill keep you guys posted, should have the next body in on Tuesday or Wednesday.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.
> 
> *Yes MFA is disabled.* Shooting on AI Servo, Single Square, Full High Speed Burst- 10 FPS, Av mode at 2.8, shutter speeds are usually over 1/1000, sometimes all the way up to 1/8000 depending on light. Like I said, this isn't new to me.
> 
> ...



I've highlighted the most likely source if the problem. 

Which is more crazy...doing a proper AFMA with the new body, or exchanging a new camera 4 or more times until you happen across one that's a perfect match to your lens? Egad, what if you have more than one lens, and they're off from each other? What if you buy a new lens? Oh, I know...keep exchanging copies until you find one that matches your body. Nothing crazy about that...


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> MichaelTheMaven said:
> 
> 
> > So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.
> ...



Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.



Invalid tests? But...but...he does a lot of testing for his YouTube channel. If that doesn't make him an expert, what does??


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## rpt (Dec 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.
> ...


I guess you could hold it as a P&S and shoot in live view mode...


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## RodS57 (Dec 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.
> ...



Without taking pot shots at Michael
I think it is reasonable to expect a new camera to be calibrated correctly;
I believe there will be copy variation but what does canon need to do to minimize this variation.
I think, based on the posts I've read that there may be a surprisingly high percentage of 7D2's coming off the assembly line with defects.
And yes, I understand that six people with problems usually make a lot more noise than 100 people without problems. In any forum it is virtually impossible to gauge the real extend of the problem but I believe a problem does exist.

For me, this is the only body I have that gives the option to do AFMA. I like having the ability to do these adjustments. So far all these 'can't focus correctly' posts have left me in sort of a state of confusion. Before, if the shot was bad then I screwed up. Now I can blame it on the crappy 7D2 

Rod


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > East Wind Photography said:
> ...



'I do this all the time and post it on the Internet' doesn't make someone an expert, or even necessarily particularly knowledgable. _YouTube for Dummies_ is available on Amazon and in bookstores for less than $20. 

As for it being 'perfect out of the box', for years professional photographers would send their entire SLR+lens collection into Canon for them to be calibrated against each other for best focus, and that calibration service was, in part, how Canon Professional Services came into being. It's worth noting that 35mm film is a lot more forgiving of minor AF errors than current dSLR sensors. 




RodS57 said:


> I think, based on the posts I've read that there may be a surprisingly high percentage of 7D2's coming off the assembly line with defects.
> And yes, I understand that six people with problems usually make a lot more noise than 100 people without problems. In any forum it is virtually impossible to gauge the real extend of the problem but I believe a problem does exist.



The same things were said after the release of the 70D, but evidently not as there was no Product Advisory from Canon. Time will tell but as with the 70D, we're most likely looking at a combination of a few defective units (which is the norm) and user error. Someone who is consistently getting front-focused shots but refuses to do AFMA falls into the user error category. 'The same lens works fine on other cameras' simply suggests a lack of understanding of AFMA and why it's necessary.


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## candc (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.
> 
> Yes MFA is disabled. Shooting on AI Servo, Single Square, Full High Speed Burst- 10 FPS, Av mode at 2.8, shutter speeds are usually over 1/1000, sometimes all the way up to 1/8000 depending on light. Like I said, this isn't new to me.
> 
> ...



this does seem odd. are you customizing the camera before you use it? it is probably something simple that you are overlooking and when you realize what it is then it will seem obvious. i would reset the camera to default and try some one shot tests to see if the camera is focusing where it is supposed to. there was no exif data in the photo you posted. take a look at your photos exif and see what the subject distance is. it looks like your photo is focused at mfd for some reason. the 7dii has a great af system and should have no problem with what you are shooting. the photo below is a gull flying straight at me shot at 420 f/4 normally i stop down to f/8 to get more dof but i was doing this for testing to see how the camera would do and its incredible at keeping up with what you are shooting. you can see that the dof is pretty shallow but the birds beak and face is in focus. the cameras af consistently performs this way.

it just seems unlikely that you would get 2 cameras with some kind of major af malfunction like that.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 7, 2014)

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter? 

As a long-time Canon user, I have never had to MFA any the Nikons Ive tested (nor Canons), nor would ever do so with any brand new camera for testing because that MFA would not be the same experience new camera owners would have out of the box. Probably something you didn't think of. 

So what do you guys do for a living? Just curious.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 7, 2014)

I wasn't actually asking for help, I was trying to offer some information about my personal experience with the 7Dii's focusing issues, in case anyone else was having the same problem and once I find out what is going on, that information might be helpful to them.


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## candc (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?
> 
> As a long-time Canon user, I have never had to MFA any the Nikons Ive tested (nor Canons), nor would ever do so with any brand new camera for testing because that MFA would not be the same experience new camera owners would have out of the box. Probably something you didn't think of.
> 
> So what do you guys do for a living? Just curious.



afma is supposed to correct for minor tolerance mismatches between the camera body and lens. your are not AFMAing the camera, you are matching the camera to the lens and most of the time it only needed for minor errors. there is something else going on with your setup i think. i would do a reset and try some simple test shots to see whats going on.


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 7, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > East Wind Photography said:
> ...



Rod it is true that most of the consumer level cameras do not have AFMA adjustment up to and including the 60D. The 70D replacement included this capability due to consumer pressure. All of the pro and semi pro cameras have this feature. I have friends that have consumer cameras and dont know their equipment is off. They just assume the lens quality is bad or worse just assume it's sharp not knowing any better and proceed to over sharpen on their computer.

The thing about AFMA is that if you use a higher F-stop you can mask the error and some people just assume that their lens works better at F8 and F11.

I dont have one single lens both old and new that have the same AFMA setting. A difference of 2 or 3 points wide open (especially with fast lenses) can make a huge difference in sharpness and more so with a crop sensor since the error is also magnified.

So for anyone to say that it should come sharp from the factory is just not possible unless the factory has AFMA or mechanically adjusted the camera to the EXACT same lens before shipping it. In the old days or with consumer cameras today, you have to send both the camera and lens to Canon and have them match them up, or all of your lenses to the same camera. AFMA lets us do it any time we need to.

Not to say that Canon should not be calibrating to some reference lens on the assembly line, but it's not reasonable to expect a factory camera to be dead on with every lens out there.


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## rpt (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> I wasn't actually asking for help, I was trying to offer some information about my personal experience with the 7Dii's focusing issues, in case anyone else was having the same problem and once I find out what is going on, that information might be helpful to them.


What about focus in Live View? Is that ok?

I just finished doing the AFMA for my lenses. All of them ended up in the +2 to -1 range so that validates Michael's comment about not needing AFMA straight out of the box. However, both the 100-400L and the 70-200L II had soft images when coupled with the 1.4x converter so I need to investigate that in the coming week. I have already posted the image of my cat Leo in the 7D II images thread if you want to take a look. That came out ok.

The one thing I noticed is that the 7D II needs light. When there is less light you may get a soft image. You may want to look at this.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?



So, you're trying to replicate the 'new Canon user experience' for all those people who buy a 7DII for $1800 and a $2100 L-series f/2.8 zoom lens to go with it? Do you believe that is a large demographic?

Let me turn it around...perhaps, as someone trying to provide a service for those interested in purchasing photo gear, you might consider educating them on how to get the most from their gear. Just a thought...


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

candc said:


> MichaelTheMaven said:
> 
> 
> > So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?
> ...




+1.....to have that much of a problem I don't think its the afma. It's crazy to me that you have 2 new bodies that would be focusing that bad. I can see getting 1 but 2?


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## Keith_Reeder (Dec 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> The same things were said after the release of the 70D



And the 7D

And the 40D.

And yet - I must be _such_ a lucky bloke - I bought a 40D; and a 7D; and a 70D; and a 7D Mk II, and they all focus brilliantly.

_What are the odds?_


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## Keith_Reeder (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?


Yes. A 7D Mk II isn't a beginner's camera.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

Keith_Reeder said:


> MichaelTheMaven said:
> 
> 
> > So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?
> ...




+1


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## candc (Dec 7, 2014)

Keith_Reeder said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > The same things were said after the release of the 70D
> ...



there is an issue with at least some 70d's having af problems where using a fast lens and the center point the camera would go way off. maybe this is the same thing? just because his af issue seems unlikely that does not mean its not real.


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 7, 2014)

Keith_Reeder said:


> MichaelTheMaven said:
> 
> 
> > So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?
> ...



Agreed as well. There are more complex systems in the 7D2 than AFMA. Any user of an advanced camera system needs to study the manual a few times to get it adjusted for their equipment and type of shooting.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

At this point if I was you I'd restore the camera to factory defaults. Make sure your lens is on AF. Take some shots in one shot of a still subject. See how your results are. Then switch it to ai servo set and shoot a moving subject again. See how that works. Try different AF zone modes, single point, zone AF etc. see how your results are. Then set up back button focus and repeat those steps and see if that makes a difference. Put it on the green full auto mode see how that does. Then you can see if a certain thing isn't working correctly and start eliminating some things to see what's going on. If your images are slightly out of focus that's when we need to look at afma. That would be my approach for what it's worth.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2014)

Ryan85 said:


> At this point if I was you I'd restore the camera to factory defaults. Make sure your lens is on AF. Take some shots in one shot of a still subject. See how your results are. Then switch it to ai servo set and shoot a moving subject again. See how that works. Try different AF zone modes, single point, zone AF etc. see how your results are. Then set up back button focus and repeat those steps and see if that makes a difference. Put it on the green full auto mode see how that does. Then you can see if a certain thing isn't working correctly and start eliminating some things to see what's going on. If your images are slightly out of focus that's when we need to look at afma. That would be my approach for what it's worth.



There's actually a very simple way to determine if AFMA would be useful to correct a front- or back-focus issue. No doubt a self-proclaimed expert who's done camera testing many, many times is familiar with that simple test.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > At this point if I was you I'd restore the camera to factory defaults. Make sure your lens is on AF. Take some shots in one shot of a still subject. See how your results are. Then switch it to ai servo set and shoot a moving subject again. See how that works. Try different AF zone modes, single point, zone AF etc. see how your results are. Then set up back button focus and repeat those steps and see if that makes a difference. Put it on the green full auto mode see how that does. Then you can see if a certain thing isn't working correctly and start eliminating some things to see what's going on. If your images are slightly out of focus that's when we need to look at afma. That would be my approach for what it's worth.
> ...




Lol. I'm not a expert, I'd like to know.


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## weixing (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> Turning off MFA when shooting at a ruler seemed to correct focusing with very wide apertures on a non-moving subject.
> 
> So this morning, I went out to redo my servo sports test, with a different BRAND NEW Canon 7Dii, same lens 24-70 2.8 (which I know is working on my 5Diii).
> 
> ...


Hi,
Hmm... I'm not sure, but look like it's seem too out of focus to be an AFMA issue... just wonder how big the error require to get this out of focus?? May be you should post the original jpeg with all the info intact (such as AF points) for us to take a look. 

By the way, what's your settings on the "AI Servo 1st image priority" and "AI Servo 2nd image priority"??

Have a nice day.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 7, 2014)

The Canon 7Dii isn't a beginners camera? Thats funny. I hear this a lot, never made any sense. Its like saying that someone who can afford a 7Dii isn't allowed to buy one unless they can prove they are a pro. Beginning photographers will buy the best camera they personally can afford, not necessarily the cheapest one. There is no connection between experience level and what they can afford. 

I admit, I am surprised how many of you believe that MFA is part of the normal Canon experience. I love Canon, but I know when something isn't working right.

MFA is for specific tweaking under certain circumstances, not to get the camera to focus correctly out of the box and it is absolutely not something Canon recommends to all of its camera owners, as many on this thread have advocated.

From Canon about MFA and the expectation of acceptable tolerance: http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/quickguides/CDLC_Accurate_EOS_AF_QuickGuide.pdf


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## meywd (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> The Canon 7Dii isn't a beginners camera? Thats funny. I hear this a lot, never made any sense. Its like saying that someone who can afford a 7Dii isn't allowed to buy one unless they can prove they are a pro. Beginning photographers will buy the best camera they personally can afford, not necessarily the cheapest one. There is no connection between experience level and what they can afford.
> 
> I admit, I am surprised how many of you believe that MFA is part of the normal Canon experience. I love Canon, but I know when something isn't working right.
> 
> ...



Even if they can afford it, they can't expect to use the advance features without reading up ahead on how to use these features, its not about skill level, its about experience with such cameras or features, anyway you can't say that AFMA is the reason or not unless you do a proper testing as been previously mentioned, start with a reset, one shot AF and work your way up


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 7, 2014)

I have done hundreds of test shots. For the record, I have also owned the 40D, 7D and 70D and did not see the same issue. 

Maybe my eyes and brain both need MFA


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

If it's that out of focus like the shot you shared above its not afma it's something else. That's way out of focus.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> MFA is for specific tweaking under certain circumstances, not to get the camera to focus correctly out of the box and it is absolutely not something Canon recommends to all of its camera owners, as many on this thread have advocated.



Then I'm sure you never store a camera with the battery installed, or carry the camera attached to a tripod, because Canon recommends against both. 

Canon also recommends against using Spot AF with moving subjects, but that's just what another 'expert YouTube reviewer' did when testing the 5DIII in a 'sports test' and getting a poor hit rate of not much over 60%.


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## RodS57 (Dec 7, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



No argument here.
Do I expect to take a new camera out of the box and get reasonably sharp shots? Yes I do but with copy variation this becomes pure luck and is pretty much an unrealistic expectation. On my T3i the 75-300 kit lens rivals the 70-300L I purchased in terms of perceived sharpness.
I understand what AFMA does and am glade I have that option.
I think the reference lens would be a good idea for canon. They could check the body against it and determine where the body stands. If the body is +3 they could set the 'apply to all lenses' value to +3. For people who understand AFMA they have a starting point. For people that don't it doesn't matter anyway. IMO.

Rod


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Just to repeat what has been said a few times. Reset the camera to factory defaults and try again. Either, despite the long odds, you have received two defective bodies or you've managed to completely screw up the setting on this one. Nothing in that photo is in focus. You are way out of spec, even for a lens that needs an AFMA of twenty.
> 
> Honestly, this looks like an intentional failure to me but I tend to be a bit cynical at times. I'd say that lens is focused several feet in front of the model.




+1


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## Lee Jay (Dec 7, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Honestly, this looks like an intentional failure to me but I tend to be a bit cynical at times. I'd say that lens is focused several feet in front of the model.
> 
> edit ..... When a camera has trouble tracking focus on an object coming towards the lens it typically back-focuses, it doesn't jump to a point three feet in front of a moving subject.



I had that happen on one combo - 5D + 35/1.4L. The lens focused accurately on my other bodies and all my other lenses focused accurately on the 5D. It wasn't close. In the shot below, the focus point is right on his face. The error here is about 6 depths of field, and that was typical and consistent.

I sent both body and lens in for calibration (both were in warranty) and haven't had a problem since, and none of my other lenses have either. Weird, huh?


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2014)

So no one thinks his current plan of buying more cameras and hoping one gives better results is a good idea?? 

FWIW, I've seen plenty of correctly focused shots of moving subjects taken with the 7DII to believe this is a pervasive defect. My bet is still on user error, though really bad luck can't be ruled out.


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## chimperjake (Dec 7, 2014)

I have been shooting with the 7DM2 for about 2 weeks now. pretty much every frame I have shot with it, I feel is "soft". It should be noted that I have been using the 1dx since 2012 so I am very used to the AF system. I spent the majority of the day today looking at focus charts with my various lenses, and attempting micro adjustments. At the end of the day I contacted CPS support and I will be sending it back for warranty service. From what I see it looks like alot of people have "good copies" of the camera, I hope Canon can fix mine. I was waiting for this camera for a long time :-\


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## jhwsfla (Dec 7, 2014)

Had mine three weeks and almost all were soft. Sometimes it looked like the focus was somewhere else. Multiple lens setup etc. Contacted Canon they had me reset everything and nothing helped. Asked if there was a hard reset and they said no. (If you look were the battery goes in there is a plug there but I didn't explore more.) So option was return it or send to Canon Va. Opted to return it tomorrow. btw serial number started with 02202100XXXX maybe there is a pattern..


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## chimperjake (Dec 7, 2014)

GraFax said:


> I don't want to call BS if the guy has an actual problem, but, I think it's all a bit odd.
> 
> Here is one from this afternoon with the 7D2. A Northern Shoveler. If you haven't seen on of these fly, it sort of resembles a rocket that is missing one of it's tail-fins. In this picture it is flying at 60+ mph against a complex background and I have half a dozen in this sequence that are all in focus. These are at 1/2500th and there is still motion blur to give you an idea of the speed. What more can you ask? The 7D2 isn't perfect by any stretch but it is a focusing monster.



Nice Shot....I have noticed images look extremely clear through the viewfinder, and the focus system seems to be the same, if not better than the 1dx, the issue is every single image regardless of lens seems soft. In DPP the focus points are spot on but the image is soft. I will post back Canon's reply when my camera is returned. Very frustrating.


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## chimperjake (Dec 7, 2014)

jhwsfla said:


> Had mine three weeks and almost all were soft. Sometimes it looked like the focus was somewhere else. Multiple lens setup etc. Contacted Canon they had me reset everything and nothing helped. Asked if there was a hard reset and they said no. (If you look were the battery goes in there is a plug there but I didn't explore more.) So option was return it or send to Canon Va. Opted to return it tomorrow. btw serial number started with 02202100XXXX maybe there is a pattern..



Mine starts with 02202000xxxx.....nice to know I am not crazy


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## chimperjake (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> chimperjake said:
> 
> 
> > jhwsfla said:
> ...



I agree I think it will be a keeper after its sorted out. I love the ergonomics and as I said in a previous post, I own an 1dx and I think the dual digic 6's are a noticeable improvement over even the 1dx AF system. Like you said they just are not crisp. Based on your shoveler shot, mine are definately noticeably worse, however. I also have a 400 5.6, a 600 f4 is usm, a 70-200 2.8 is ii, a 24-70 II and results are about the same with all lenses so I dont think it is a resolution problem.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> chimperjake said:
> 
> 
> > jhwsfla said:
> ...



After editing are they still not very sharp? Are we taking about jpgs or raws?


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## Ryan85 (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > After editing are they still not very sharp? Are we taking about jpgs or raws?
> ...



Got you that makes sense. Thanks for the reply.


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## chimperjake (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> chimperjake said:
> 
> 
> > I also have a 400 5.6, a 600 f4 is usm, a 70-200 2.8 is ii, a 24-70 II and results are about the same with all lenses so I dont think it is a resolution problem.
> ...



I will definately keep you in the loop. Will ship out tomorrow or Tuesday. Canon anticipates a week or so turn around on it. We shall see what the resolution is.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > GraFax said:
> ...



Lol got you. I'm not looking for perfect iq from it. It's much cheaper than the 1dx for a reason. I'm not a pixel peeper I just want nice normal size prints and digital files to look good and it seems Ill be happy


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## sdsr (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> I have to admit I was a bit disappointed in the crop image quality after a decade of full frame. I don't have any trouble telling 5D2/3 files from 7D2 at 100% in lightroom. I suppose I knew that would be the case but the reality is still a bit disappointing. It seems like Canon should be a little further along with the IQ by now. But, I'm getting shots that I just couldn't get with the 5D3 and my lenses so "it is what it is". It is an absolute hoot to shoot with but IQ is not up to full frame specs. Apparently the laws of physics are alive and well.



As you suggest, it's not surprising (you can see the same thing if you do comparisons with the relevant tool at thedigitalpicture.com), and it's not a reflection of Canon's IQ backwardness that it's FF sensors make better images than its APS-C - the same lens tends to make slightly better images on a FF sensor than on a crop sensor, regardless of camera brand; I see it on my Canon FF vs APS-C bodies (I don't have a 7DII, but at most I would expect it to narrow the difference), and also my Sony a7r vs a6000. Pixel peeping is more fun with FF sensors....


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 8, 2014)

sdsr said:


> GraFax said:
> 
> 
> > I have to admit I was a bit disappointed in the crop image quality after a decade of full frame. I don't have any trouble telling 5D2/3 files from 7D2 at 100% in lightroom. I suppose I knew that would be the case but the reality is still a bit disappointing. It seems like Canon should be a little further along with the IQ by now. But, I'm getting shots that I just couldn't get with the 5D3 and my lenses so "it is what it is". It is an absolute hoot to shoot with but IQ is not up to full frame specs. Apparently the laws of physics are alive and well.
> ...



Indeed. As much as those with smaller, errrmmm...sensors...would like to believe differently, size matters.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> sdsr said:
> 
> 
> > As you suggest, it's not surprising (you can see the same thing if you do comparisons with the relevant tool at thedigitalpicture.com), and it's not a reflection of Canon's IQ backwardness that it's FF sensors make better images than its APS-C - the same lens tends to make slightly better images on a FF sensor than on a crop sensor, regardless of camera brand; I see it on my Canon FF vs APS-C bodies (I don't have a 7DII, but at most I would expect it to narrow the difference), and also my Sony a7r vs a6000. Pixel peeping is more fun with FF sensors....
> ...



In your opion what's the highest usable ISO on you 7d2 & 5d3?


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## Ryan85 (Dec 8, 2014)

Thanks!


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## takesome1 (Dec 8, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > GraFax said:
> ...



Many people miss the bird blind part and would rather use a 1.6x crutch for their pictures.


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## Lee Jay (Dec 8, 2014)

takesome1 said:


> GraFax said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan85 said:
> ...



How's a bird blind going to help me when I'm shooting airplanes?


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## takesome1 (Dec 8, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > GraFax said:
> ...



It helps keep you hidden when you sneak up close to the runway before daylight.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 8, 2014)

Lol


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## Sabaki (Dec 8, 2014)

takesome1 said:


> GraFax said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan85 said:
> ...


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## takesome1 (Dec 8, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > GraFax said:
> ...


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## Sabaki (Dec 8, 2014)

takesome1 said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > takesome1 said:
> ...


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## takesome1 (Dec 8, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Sabaki said:
> ...


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 11, 2014)

*UPDATE-* Got my new 7Dii in today. Issue is resolved and I was able to complete my tests this afternoon, Ill let you guys know when the shootout vs the NX-1 is finished. Turns out there are many others who are having this issue: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1406704&page=64, there is a guy in there who also had 2 bad 7Dii bodies, I do believe we will hear more about it in the future, and yes, perhaps a tutorial on how to troubleshoot it, MFA, etc is in order. 

While most of you seem quite knowledgeable and helpful (Jrista is a good example), there are others who use their obvious intellectual gifts to belittle & ridicule others. Sometimes cameras don't work the way they should, and just because they don't it doesn't mean the photographer is always to blame, doesn't know how to use a camera, did it intentionally or you should assume the worst about that person. 

I know many of you do not like what I do with my tests, and that is fine. I am not as smart as many of you, but I will use what I do know and learn about to help and inform those who might sincerely be seeking it.


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## rzuch (Dec 11, 2014)

I received a new 7d Mark II this week and have been very frustrated with this camera. I bought the camera primarily to shoot skiers (moving subject) and have spent the last few days trying to get in focus pictures. I've spent several hours on the phone with Canon tech support and have viewed videos about the AF system and settings. After trying many different settings and 2 lenses this camera severely underperforms my Nikon D300s (5 years old, with a Nikkor 28-300mm lens). The 7D Mark II looses focus on my subject frequently and then refocuses after several frames. Even the "in focus" shots are not as sharp as I'd expect.

I'm using the Canon L series lens 70-300mm, and also borrowed the 55-250 lens (from my SL1). I'm shooting 8 shots/sec in Aperature priority, shutter speed 1/1000 or faster with ISO ranging from 200 to 1600. The loosing focus problem does not seem to be effected by changing my settings or lens. The problem is worse in low light.

I may have to take a big loss on this purchase as the seller will not refund a camera with 2000+ activations.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 11, 2014)

rzuch said:


> I received a new 7d Mark II this week and have been very frustrated with this camera. I bought the camera primarily to shoot skiers (moving subject) and have spent the last few days trying to get in focus pictures. I've spent several hours on the phone with Canon tech support and have viewed videos about the AF system and settings. After trying many different settings and 2 lenses this camera severely underperforms my Nikon D300s (5 years old, with a Nikkor 28-300mm lens). The 7D Mark II looses focus on my subject frequently and then refocuses after several frames. Even the "in focus" shots are not as sharp as I'd expect.
> 
> I'm using the Canon L series lens 70-300mm, and also borrowed the 55-250 lens (from my SL1). I'm shooting 8 shots/sec in Aperature priority, shutter speed 1/1000 or faster with ISO ranging from 200 to 1600. The loosing focus problem does not seem to be effected by changing my settings or lens. The problem is worse in low light.
> 
> I may have to take a big loss on this purchase as the seller will not refund a camera with 2000+ activations.


 
A new camera has a 1 year warranty, send it to Canon for repairs. You should not take a huge loss, except for a few dollars shipping. If it took you 2000 activations to detect a issue, the seller is right, at that point its a warranty issue.


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## Don Haines (Dec 11, 2014)

I took the 7D2 out in a snowstorm.....

The lens was a 17-55F2.8.

The autofocus system would not lock on anything unless I put it into single point mode..... and in that mode I would get it to focus about half of the time. I figure it was because in multiple AF point modes that it was looking at objects (snowflakes) at random distances and got confused. This never happened on the old camera (60D), probably because the AF system was not sensitive enough.

Has anyone else had this happen, and if so, what did you do?


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## Marsu42 (Dec 11, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Has anyone else had this happen, and if so, what did you do?



Interesting, because I would have expected the exact opposite: My single-point 6d/60d completely screw up in falling snow because with just one piece of information, the camera cannot decide if it's a subject or "gras/snow/... in front of subject" lock. I'd guess that with multi-af, the camera should be smarter, at least in theory.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 11, 2014)

> A new camera has a 1 year warranty, send it to Canon for repairs.



+1


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## Don Haines (Dec 11, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone else had this happen, and if so, what did you do?
> ...



The camera did nothing when you pushed the shutter.... no hunting and no shutter release... It took me a minute or two to realize what was happening... If I pointed it at the deer, nothing. If I pointed it at a nearby tree, it worked. It was as if you had a distance switch set to focus on close objects only. (there is no such switch on the 17-55) I swapped lenses out for a 70-200 and it did the exact same thing. I tried manual focus and the shutter would release, but absolutely dead in auto-focus mode when you pointed it at a more distant object....

I am going to have to re-read the AF system manual and see if the various setting have any impact.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 11, 2014)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> *UPDATE-* Got my new 7Dii in today. Issue is resolved and I was able to complete my tests this afternoon, Ill let you guys know when the shootout vs the NX-1 is finished. Turns out there are many others who are having this issue: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1406704&page=64, there is a guy in there who also had 2 bad 7Dii bodies, I do believe we will hear more about it in the future, and yes, perhaps a tutorial on how to troubleshoot it, MFA, etc is in order.
> 
> While most of you seem quite knowledgeable and helpful (Jrista is a good example), there are others who use their obvious intellectual gifts to belittle & ridicule others. Sometimes cameras don't work the way they should, and just because they don't it doesn't mean the photographer is always to blame, doesn't know how to use a camera, did it intentionally or you should assume the worst about that person.
> 
> I know many of you do not like what I do with my tests, and that is fine. I am not as smart as many of you, but I will use what I do know and learn about to help and inform those who might sincerely be seeking it.




I'm glad you got it resolved. It's crazy to me that you received 2 bodies in a row like that. Hopefully it'll be smooth sailing from here with it!


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## Marsu42 (Dec 11, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> I am going to have to re-read the AF system manual and see if the various setting have any impact.



Good idea, the detailed af settings are crucial when the af might be confused, either by objects getting in betweeen the camera and your subject, or when tracking losing sight of the tracked subject for some period. 

I might add: In a two decades from now when we're all happy mirrorless shooters, you just install a software-addon module to your camera "snowflakes v2.3b" and all white points moving downwards are ignored


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## Sabaki (Dec 11, 2014)

I'm wondering if the next firmware update will sort out some of these niggles


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## Ryan85 (Dec 11, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> I'm wondering if the next firmware update will sort out some of these niggles



Hopefully


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## Lee Jay (Dec 12, 2014)

Ryan85 said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > I'm wondering if the next firmware update will sort out some of these niggles
> ...



You guys are assuming the problems with some copies have nothing to do with hardware. Since a replacement seems to fix it, that's unlikely.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 12, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > Sabaki said:
> ...



Well, one reason more to upgrade to the 7d3 once it's there  ... it's not like hardware is flawless, Canon also missed some things on the 5d3 (af pts when tracking, broken write speed with sd).


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## weixing (Dec 12, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


Hi,
My country don't snow, so can't test, but will rain very heavily... hmm... may be I'll test shooting the rain and see what happen (don't ask me to test the weather sealing of 7D2 because I'm not weather sealed... ha ha ha )  Anyway, there are so many possible condition out there that the camera AF will face, not surprise if there are certain condition that the testing procedure miss that will cause the AF system to be confuse.

By the way, this guy 7D2 seem ok shooting in blizzard... http://www.foto-buzz.com/index.php?script=page&id=77&type=fotoskool

Have a nice day.


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 12, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > Sabaki said:
> ...



There are multiple issues being reported. The obvious ones such as AF way front or back focused are likely hardware issues. The others such as phase discrimination issues, lack of obtaining a consistent lock, favoring background, are likely fixable in firmware. Still making some assumptions, however similar issues with other models have been resolved in the past with an update. Such as 5D3 ability to AF with lower light which in effect also improved the AF lock in normal light with low contrast targets.

So based on past history AF capability can be improved with software refinements. People shouldn't wait though to contact Canon about issues. They are eagerly taking in all of the reports to identify issues, prioritize updates and correlate with serial numbers. Let them know ASAP of any issues you all have.


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## henrikolsen (Dec 12, 2014)

*Re: Focus problems with the Canon 7DII? (yes, controlled example tests included)*

Part 1

Found this, and similar, thread after having concluded my own 7D II is so unreliable in focus, I have to return it for a fix / swap. Tried ignoring it to start with, to maintain satisfaction of the new workhorse, but not possible anymore, as it sometimes lets me down big time, both for pro work and leisure. Frustrating to work with, and the chimping gets out of control when not relying on basic AF anymore. 
Luckily I see some have had succes with a new copy of this body, so I cross my fingers, as everything else is nice about it, except that current copy is useless... 
But first I wanted to document it here, and for the shop I return it to. A pain, but hopefully useful for others.

I have done some thousands of shots now, covering events with the newly aquired 7D II now included, and have noticed unacceptable focus inconsistencies unlike other used bodies like 5D III and 50D backup (to include another crop sensor body for tests with same EF-S lenses). Lots of it trivial AF work with one-shot, point focus (surrounding also tried, with no more luck).

Tried it a little locally also with birds (BIF) to stress test the claimed superb AI servo tracking. But focus keeper rates across usage has also here been lower than expected - although focus point tracking seems very responsive and promising! If fixed or new body fixes inconsistency it looks like a 100-400 II needs to be coupled with it too 

More controlled testing has been done for documentation and verification that the body indeed has a temperamental AF. The very basics: Static scene, tripod, one shot, center focus, focus priority, RAW, tests that should of course be no issue to get consistently in sharp focus.

Primary lenses have been 17-55mm f2.8 IS and 70-200 f4 L IS. Both potentially capable of some nice sharp results if AF is accurate. AFMA adjusted as good as the focus inconsistency has allowed. FoCal and own double checks made. Adjustments seem valid enough. 17-55 has +6/+7, 70-200 is at +9 for tested 200mm IIRC.

1)
First example set is with 17-55mm, f2.8 at around 2 meters. Static scene, tripod, repeated "one shot"s, center focus, focus priority, no or infinity defocus after each shot. Head to head against the old and more trusted 50D (same setup, slightly lower exposure though).

7D II:

1/80, f2.8, ISO 640, 55mm

Optimal focus plane (live view / contrast detect):

_M9A0109_reference.jpg

Then phase detect:

7 out of 22 is in focus, example:

_M9A0141_sharp.jpg

15 out of 22 were not in focus(!), examples:

_M9A0140_unsharp.jpg
_M9A0142_unsharp.jpg

Focus plane all over the place. I can sometimes hear the AF readjust, and see the distance scaling jumping a little nervously, sometimes obviously ending in a new position, even though scene and camera are static. No consistency, and impossible to rely on.

50D:

1/125, f2.8, ISO 640, 55mm

Optimal focus plane (live view / contrast detect):

_MG_7401_50D_reference.jpg

Phase detect:

Around 26 of 28 are in focus, example:

_MG_7404_50D_sharp.jpg

The few debatable look like this, worst case:

_MG_7403_50D_less_sharp.jpg
_MG_7418_50D_less_sharp.jpg

That’s how I expect it to be for such a trivial job. Just nailing them (except the two almost there). Not a single one close to how unpredictable my 7D II can be at times. 50D has way less variance and nice accuracy. Not once did I notice a refocus/readjustment attempt as I observed the 7D II sometimes did at same setup.

I will note that the runs above for the 7D II were particularly bad. I have normally not seen _that_ many way out of focus, but often still way too many, and when it’s in a particularly bad mood it can go all crazy like shown here. 

Ironically I bought the 7D II for it's claimed much improved AF, so having it fail that much compared to the old 50D is not good. Is the 50D always perfect? Not at all, that's why I got this newer crop body. But no luck on this one.

Part 2 coming up with FoCal consistency tests and comments (need split to more than 8 files, trying to avoid zips).


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## henrikolsen (Dec 12, 2014)

*Re: Focus problems with the Canon 7DII? (yes, controlled example tests included)*

Part 2

Now for some "Reikan FoCal Focus Consistency Test Report” results illustrating and confirming observed real work impression of the sometimes severe inconsistency of my 7D II. Recommended target setup followed. Notice the scale of the vertical axis on each graph. 

*70-200 f4 IS*

7D II, examples:

FoCal, focus consistency, 70-200, 7D II, take 1.png
FoCal, focus consistency, 70-200, 7D II, take 2.png

Huge variance, and over 100 points between peak and mean.

50D:

FoCal, focus consistency, 70-200, 50D.png

Little variance, all close to peak. Less than 20 points between peak and mean. 

*17-55 IS*

7D II:

FoCal, focus consistency, 17-55, 7D II.png

Huge variance, and over 150 points between peak and mean.

50D:

FoCal, focus consistency, 17-55, 50D.png

Much less variance, all closer to peak. Around 40 points between peak and mean. 

—

With a focus inconsistency of the experienced caliber the new body is unfortunately a no go for any kind of serious work.

Are tests with this same body sometimes better? Yes. It’s not always as crazy as documented here, but often enough that it’s blacklisted for further use now.

I sincerely hope I will get the issue sorted out without any trouble. For a crop body, I love the nice viewfinder. And the speed, point coverage, customizable options etc. How nice, if only it could be used reliably. I want this to work out.

The time consumed for this, and the already missed unsharp moments are not fun at all. The worst part is I have to go through the same tests and uncertainty again when getting it back, or receiving a new copy. Canon, please improve QA, so we can focus on making nice pictures instead of worrying about the gear working or not.

PS. Comment to part 1. See _M9A0142_unsharp_dpp_info.png (attached) for DPP info, in case you doubt the used settings.


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## Lee Jay (Dec 12, 2014)

If there's inconsistency, there could be an issue with secondary mirror bounce on some cameras.


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## AshtonNekolah (Dec 14, 2014)

Just had to swap bodies and the camera focus fine the image tuts out mushy same lens and settings.


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## AshtonNekolah (Dec 14, 2014)

Do you guys think a firmware update will clear these bodies that gets these kind of images up?


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## Lee Jay (Dec 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Long lenses with/without tele-converters typically have maximum apertures of f5.6 to f8. Clearly they did not intend for the 7D2 to be uses with fast primes.



You mean like the two standard sports lenses, the 300/2.8 and 400/2.8?


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## Lee Jay (Dec 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> I didn't design it, I'm just pointing out the spec. The 300/400 2.8 are also used with teleconverters when reach limited and for sports are often used natively on full frame 1DX's which are optimized for fast lenses and have many more f2.8 AF points.



Many more? 5 (of 61) instead of 1. In other words, not many. All the f/5.6 points (of which 41 of 61 are cross type on the 1DX but all 65 are on the 7DII) will AF on f/2.8 lenses.



> As an engineer, I look for the "tells" that other engineers leave behind in order to understand their design intent. In this case I think the intent is pretty clear. Others may see it differently. Canon, as usual, isn't saying much.



As an engineer and scientist, I'm often annoyed at how much stuff people will make up and believe in despite having little or no real information or evidence.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> AshtonNekolah said:
> 
> 
> > Do you guys think a firmware update will clear these bodies that gets these kind of images up?
> ...



I'm a little confused about this. So do lenses like the 70-200 2.8 or 3002.8 not focus aswell or as fast on the outside focus points compared to the center point ? Ive never researched the 2.8 and 5.6 focus point thing.


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## AshtonNekolah (Dec 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > After editing are they still not very sharp? Are we taking about jpgs or raws?
> ...



your right, I was expecting some very tack sharp images, they are good at there normal sizes but you can see the separation vs the 5D line up. I am not happy about this but i am happy of catching moving objects.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a little confused about this. So do lenses like the 70-200 2.8 or 3002.8 not focus aswell or as fast on the outside focus points compared to the center point ? Ive never researched the 2.8 and .6 focus point thing.
> ...



Thank you for the explanation. That makes since to me. I'm going to play with that a little and see what results I get.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for the explanation. That makes since to me. I'm going to play with that a little and see what results I get.
> ...



I understand that. Everyone is entitled to there options but I don't get argument part though. So stoping down on a 2.8 lens to 5.6 or slower would still be accurate on the outside points?


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## Lee Jay (Dec 15, 2014)

GraFax said:


> I mainly bring it up because I see a lot of folks struggling to get good focus with the 7D2 in multi point zone AF modes with fast lenses. Not a great approach IMO for getting good critical focus wide open.



Prove it.

I've used f/5.6 points with f/1.4 lenses and done quite well for years. I used them like that at my last wedding (in horribly dark conditions - f/1.4, ISO 1600, 1/30th or so) and got tons of in-focus shots.

If what you're saying is true, the f/2.8 points on the 1DX and 5DIII are just short of useless on f/1.4 and f/1.2 primes. In reality, they work just fine, and the f/5.6 points of the 7DII should work just fine with f/2.8 lenses and faster as well.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> GraFax said:
> 
> 
> > I mainly bring it up because I see a lot of folks struggling to get good focus with the 7D2 in multi point zone AF modes with fast lenses. Not a great approach IMO for getting good critical focus wide open.
> ...



I think he's saying the 2.8 point is more precise than the 5.6 points not that they won't work. And I believe reading the manual on my 5d3 the center point is more precise for 2.8 and faster lenses. I'm not a expert at this topic but that's how I understand it. Not that it won't work but that it's more precise. How much more precise IDK


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## Lee Jay (Dec 15, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > GraFax said:
> ...



No evidence = no reason to believe you are right.


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## Lee Jay (Dec 15, 2014)

Ryan85 said:


> I think he's saying the 2.8 point is more precise than the 5.6 points not that they won't work. And I believe reading the manual on my 5d3 the center point is more precise for 2.8 and faster lenses. I'm not a expert at this topic but that's how I understand it. Not that it won't work but that it's more precise. How much more precise IDK



There's a spec on the accuracy of a focus point. It used to be 1/3 of the DOF. So, if a point is good to 1/3 of the DOF at f/5.6, it should be good to 1 DOF at f/1.8.

Now, we don't know if that's 1 standard deviation or more, and we don't know if the spec on the 7D2's focus points are 1/3 of the DOF or something else. That's why I wanted evidence. I suspect that the spec is tighter now than it was when 1/3 of the DOF was the standard but I don't know that either.

With 1/3 DOF f/5.6 points I get around 80% in-focus images at f/1.4. If the 7D2 can do that well, I'll be happy. Since that spec is 10 years old, I suspect it will do better and that the reason it only has one f/2.8 point is that it doesn't really need the high precision points to get a good percentage of in-focus images with f/2.8 lenses like the 300/2.8 and 400/2.8. It's also probable that having multiple focus points all working on one subject will further tighten the performance since errors will tend to average out. And with all of the 7D2's focus points being cross points, you have at least two on every subject.

This is why I want to see some testing on faster lenses using other than the center point.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > I think he's saying the 2.8 point is more precise than the 5.6 points not that they won't work. And I believe reading the manual on my 5d3 the center point is more precise for 2.8 and faster lenses. I'm not a expert at this topic but that's how I understand it. Not that it won't work but that it's more precise. How much more precise IDK
> ...



What your saying makes since. I've never heard that and I really don't know. I'm going to try some different lenses and see my results. You may very well be right. I do know GraFax has posted quite a few images and commented on the 7d2 post. He seems to be using the 7d2 quite a bit with the 400 5.6. His comments also make sense to me and I respect his opion too. Thanks for explaining your point of view.


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## RodS57 (Dec 15, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a little confused about this. So do lenses like the 70-200 2.8 or 3002.8 not focus aswell or as fast on the outside focus points compared to the center point ? Ive never researched the 2.8 and .6 focus point thing.
> ...



I am by no means an expert but my interpretation of the AF manual is somewhat different than yours.

The centre point is double cross for lenses with a maximum of f2.8 or faster otherwise it is single cross. The rest are cross type for lenses f5.6 or faster otherwise they are single dimension: horizontal or vertical sensitive. Not both at the same time.

I would expect the end result to be much as you stated. The double cross is more accurate than a single cross and the single cross is more accurate than a single dimension point. Net result a faster lens can, in theory, give more accurate focus than a slower lens.

Rod


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hi Rod I just looked over my manual and that's how interpret it too


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> There's a spec on the accuracy of a focus point. It used to be 1/3 of the DOF. So, if a point is good to 1/3 of the DOF at f/5.6, it should be good to 1 DOF at f/1.8.



Sorry, but that's two wrongs for the price of one. 

In fact, the spec is that the high-precision AF points (generally the f/2.8 ones) are precise within 1/3 the DoF at the lens' max aperture (whatever lens is attached), whereas the standard precision AF points (generally the f/5.6 ones) are precise within 1 DoF of the attached lens at max aperture. 

It's also important to distinguish precision from accuracy. Canon specifies the former (as described above), but apparently not the latter (I've had an email exchange with Chuck Westfall on this). Accuracy is determined by the 'baseline' of the AF point, and the wider baseline of an f/2.8 line (easy to see on an image of an actual AF sensor) makes it more accurate than an f/5.6 line.


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## Lee Jay (Dec 15, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> The centre point is double cross for lenses with a maximum of f2.8 or faster otherwise it is single cross. The rest are cross type for lenses f5.6 or faster otherwise they are single dimension: horizontal or vertical sensitive. Not both at the same time.



I think only the four immediately adjacent to the center point work at all at f/8 - the two side ones are vertical, the top and bottom are horizontal. All the others are unavailable for slower than f/5.6 lenses.

Some of the points farther from the center are not usable for certain lenses. I assume this is a field flatness or perhaps aberration (spherical or CA) limit for those lenses, but it doesn't say.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > There's a spec on the accuracy of a focus point. It used to be 1/3 of the DOF. So, if a point is good to 1/3 of the DOF at f/5.6, it should be good to 1 DOF at f/1.8.
> ...



So what does precise within the 1/3 or 1 off the DoF at the lens max aperture? I'm a little confused with this?


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## Lee Jay (Dec 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > There's a spec on the accuracy of a focus point. It used to be 1/3 of the DOF. So, if a point is good to 1/3 of the DOF at f/5.6, it should be good to 1 DOF at f/1.8.
> ...



I'd be wary of anything Chuck Westfall says technically, since he once claimed that purple fringing was caused by birefringence of the stuff in front of the sensor (I forget if it was the microlenses, the AA filter or the IR filter). Regardless, that isn't the cause of purple fringing, axial CA in the lens is.

Since neither the baseline nor the pixel density of the sensor changes with lens wide open f-stop, I don't understand how a single line sensor could be more accurate on a lens that's faster than its baseline than on one that is equal to its baseline, but that's what it would have to be if what you wrote above is correct. It's seeing f/2.8 even on an f/1.4 lens but the DOF is half on the later so to retain 1/3 DOF performance, it would have to be twice as good on an f/1.4 lens as it is on an f/2.8 lens.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 15, 2014)

Ryan85 said:


> So what does precise within the 1/3 or 1 off the DoF at the lens max aperture? I'm a little confused with this?



First, let me correct my earlier abbreviation - I should not have said DoF, I should have spelled out depth of focus. The spec is in terms of depth of focus, not depth of field. The former is the sensor-side equivalent of the latter, proportional but measured in µm and much less dependent on subject distance than depth of field.

It basically means that the distribution of focusing around the 'true focal plane' will tighter with the high-precision AF points (e.g., if you take many, many shots focusing on the same subject, most of them will not be off by more than 1/3 of the depth of focus with a high precision AF point, and most of them will not be off by more than 1 full depth of focus with a standard precision AF point. The AF system will produce normal (Gaussian) distribution of focusing around the mean value, precision specifies how 'steep' the hill of that distribution looks.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > So what does precise within the 1/3 or 1 off the DoF at the lens max aperture? I'm a little confused with this?
> ...



Thanks for the reply


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



The point regarding Westfall was that I asked him if Canon specified AF accuracy in addition to AF precision, and he was not aware of such a specification (which presumably, he could find if there was one).

In our exchange, Westfall confused precision and accuracy, and it appears you are doing the same. Precision is not the same as accuracy. Precision is repeatability, how tightly a series of repeated measurements cluster together. Accuracy is how close the average of a repeated series of measurements, or even a single measurement for that matter, is to the true value. 







An f/2.8 AF point has a physically wider separation between the halves of the AF line, easy to see (the sets of five diagonal lines are the f/2.8 crosses):






That wider separation requires a faster lens to deliver a wide enough light cone, and that wider baseline makes the line more *accurate* than the narrower baseline of an f/5.6 point. So, an f/2.8 AF point used with an f/2.8 or faster lens will be more accurate than an f/5.6 AF point used with the same lens. That was the point that I believe GraFax was making. In general, those f/2.8 points are also high-precision points, meaning a steeper distribution curve (but while Canon specifies 1/3 of the depth of focus, they don't provide a full description of the precision, e.g. xx% of shots will fall within that depth of focus, because I'm sure it's not 100%). 

Because the precision of the system is specified in terms of depth of focus, whether or not you notice any differences depends a lot on your typical subject distance. As subject distance increases, DoF increases but depth of focus doesn't change significantly. So, you gain apparent precision as your subject distance increases.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

I trying to understand this and starting to. Thank you for your examples. Now what if your using a 2.8 or faster lens stoped down to 5.6 or f8 or whatever. Using it on a 2.8 focus point will it still be high accuracy or Percision or do you do you have to be at 2.8 or faster?


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 15, 2014)

Ryan85 said:


> I trying to understand this and starting to. Thank you for your examples. Now what if your using a 2.8 or faster lens stoped down to 5.6 or f8 or whatever. Using it on a 2.8 focus point will it still be high accuracy or Percision or do you do you have to be at 2.8 or faster?



AF is always done by the camera with the lens wide open, then the lens is stopped down to the selected aperture just before the shutter opens. So, for AF performance only the max aperture of the lens matters, your selected aperture is irrelevant.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Ryan85 said:
> 
> 
> > I trying to understand this and starting to. Thank you for your examples. Now what if your using a 2.8 or faster lens stoped down to 5.6 or f8 or whatever. Using it on a 2.8 focus point will it still be high accuracy or Percision or do you do you have to be at 2.8 or faster?
> ...



Thank you. That part makes sense to me.


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## wyldeguy (Dec 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> RodS57 said:
> 
> 
> > The centre point is double cross for lenses with a maximum of f2.8 or faster otherwise it is single cross. The rest are cross type for lenses f5.6 or faster otherwise they are single dimension: horizontal or vertical sensitive. Not both at the same time.
> ...



I'm pretty sure that any cross type af point is sensitive to both horizontal and vertical. That's why it's called cross type. The f2.8 point in the centre is dual cross type which is horizontal and vertical as well as diagonal in both a left and right angle.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 15, 2014)

wyldeguy said:


> I'm pretty sure that any cross type af point is sensitive to both horizontal and vertical. That's why it's called cross type.



Not with the 5d2 or 6d it ain't :-\ ... on these mediocre af systems, the (only) "cross-point" is hybrid, meaning it's cross af f5.6 and non-cross at f2.8 sensitivity. If the f2.8 fails with fast lenses, it falls back to the actual cross sensor, resulting in a micro-miss I'm often experiencing with my f2.8 lens and low-contrast surfaces.



neuroanatomist said:


>



Thanks for digging this pic out, great explanation, I'll be sure to keep that around for re-posting


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## Lee Jay (Dec 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I know the difference between precision and accuracy. I'm a data acquision engineer. I'm less confident that Canon marketing knows the difference so I don't know what they are actually specifying.

I know the f/2.8 points will be better on f/2.8 or faster lenses. What I'm less clear about is by how much when newer focus points are used and when more focus points are used. Do the f/5.6 points use smaller pixels than the center point? They aren't as sensitive in low light. If they have smaller pixels, are they, say 1/6 DOF points? How many standard deviations? Is that for each point or for both of a cross point? What happens when multiple points have the subject? Do errors average out in the usual way (square root of the number of points) or in some other way?

Since we don't know the answers I'd like to see some actual testing on this camera with fast lenses before I accept the claim that it isn't designed to focus well with fast primes. The AF guide says all 65 points are usable in cross mode with, say, a 35/1.4L. Presumably Canon wouldn't spec that if they didn't work with that lens with an acceptable level of keepers.


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## DominoDude (Dec 15, 2014)

I think that Roger C over at LensRentals has some answers/explanation to the numbers and a quantification of sorts.
In this article from August 2012 (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras) he shows...


> I'll list the SDs of the various cameras with the 28mm f/2.8 IS lens in the table below.
> 
> 
> *Camera**SD*1Ds III295D II38.550D347D411D IV2260D34T3i411Dx175D III17T4i29



These standard deviation numbers would be the "precision" numbers, and the accuracy should correspond to the average offset from the correct focus. It would also be the number we can tweak by doing AFMA. I have no numbers for the accuracy.
Neither do I know how they add or subtract the two signal halves in a comparison from the AF sensor to calculate how much the AF motor in the lens should be driven to minimize the error at a non focused point in time.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 15, 2014)

DominoDude said:


> These standard deviation numbers would be the "precision" numbers, and the accuracy should correspond to the average offset from the correct focus.



Before someone flames you to as crisp, I'll mention it nicely because I've posted these numbers before: Canon enthusiasts and 7d1 owners argue that lensrentals' measurements aren't valid as their sample size is too small (it is 1):



> _We then tested it in our Imatest lab using one copy of each Canon camera we carry._


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## DominoDude (Dec 15, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> DominoDude said:
> 
> 
> > These standard deviation numbers would be the "precision" numbers, and the accuracy should correspond to the average offset from the correct focus.
> ...



*sigh* I wasn't out to try to become misunderstood, and yet it happens. If I get flamed because the purpose is not recognised there is not much I can do about it.
I often attempt to be reasonably concise and keeping the posts short enough to have them read. If possible I add links to source information.
Here I introduced an explanation to what the terms "precision" and "accuracy" would be in another way compared to earlier posts. Also added the information from the table to give a hint about how different models stood in relation to each other, and it was also the best way (in my opinion) of showing the SD measurement, which I believe to be the same as what is referred to as "precision".

I set out assuming that people are smart enough to comprehend my posts without me needing to include a lawyer-ish "fine print".
It's also perfectly possible that I have missed reading an earlier post, giving these numbers or explanations, in this thread because I haven't reread the entire thread from start again. I'm flawed that way.


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## East Wind Photography (Dec 15, 2014)

DominoDude said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > DominoDude said:
> ...



So..what's the difference between accuracy and precision?


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## DominoDude (Dec 15, 2014)

The difference would be that I'm accurate but not precise. :
Sincerely,
/Fluffy in the corners


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 16, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> I know the difference between precision and accuracy. I'm a data acquision engineer. I'm less confident that Canon marketing knows the difference so I don't know what they are actually specifying.
> 
> I know the f/2.8 points will be better on f/2.8 or faster lenses. What I'm less clear about is by how much when newer focus points are used and when more focus points are used. Do the f/5.6 points use smaller pixels than the center point? They aren't as sensitive in low light. If they have smaller pixels, are they, say 1/6 DOF points? How many standard deviations? Is that for each point or for both of a cross point? What happens when multiple points have the subject? Do errors average out in the usual way (square root of the number of points) or in some other way?
> 
> Since we don't know the answers I'd like to see some actual testing on this camera with fast lenses before I accept the claim that it isn't designed to focus well with fast primes. The AF guide says all 65 points are usable in cross mode with, say, a 35/1.4L. Presumably Canon wouldn't spec that if they didn't work with that lens with an acceptable level of keepers.



Apologies – reading back, I jumped into the middle of the discussion instead of beginning at the beginning. 

I'd say that if Westfall is confused about accuracy vs. precision, it's a good bet marketing is more so, and that's not allowing for translation from Japanese technical documentation. 

Looking back at the main point, I'd have to say that while I do notice a very slightly higher hit rate with Group A/B/D lenses using the f/2.8 point(s), the hit rate with f/2.8 and faster lenses using f/5.6 points is really quite good. The difference is pretty subtle, and I haven't tried to quantify it, just anecdotal based on thousands of shots. I think the inter-lens difference (e.g. 40/2.8 vs 24-70/2.8 II) is as great or greater than the intra-lens difference with f/2.8 vs. f/5.6 crosses.


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## Lee Jay (Dec 16, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > I know the difference between precision and accuracy. I'm a data acquision engineer. I'm less confident that Canon marketing knows the difference so I don't know what they are actually specifying.
> ...



This has been my experience too, but that's on my cameras, which are a 20D and a 5D. I'm pretty interested in how a modern focusing sensor like that in the 7DII does in the same sort of testing.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 16, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Looking back at the main point, I'd have to say that while I do notice a very slightly higher hit rate with Group A/B/D lenses using the f/2.8 point(s), the hit rate with f/2.8 and faster lenses using f/5.6 points is really quite good. The difference is pretty subtle, and I haven't tried to quantify it, just anecdotal based on thousands of shots. I think the inter-lens difference (e.g. 40/2.8 vs 24-70/2.8 II) is as great or greater than the intra-lens difference with f/2.8 vs. f/5.6 crosses.
> ...



That's what I'm seeing on the 1D X. Similar on the 7D, although the overall hit rate was lower (the 7D didn't have many near-misses...it usually nailed focus, but when it didn't it was off by the proverbial country mile).


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## aee (Jan 31, 2015)

Just thought I'd share my experience with this. Picked up a 7DII for the holiday. Main focus is wildlife, so thrilled to upgrade from my 50D and exploit the 10fps and focus tracking of this body. A field outing where nearly everything was off focus-wise caused me to conduct some controlled condition tests. I can only conclude the focus is off/soft. Exchanged for 2nd body a few weeks later with the same results. One body was missing the receiving threads for the cable protector, so no question there as to manufacturing quality control issue. I don't see clear/dramatic front or back focusing, just off/soft focusing. Microadjustments didn't help. I wouldn't mind having Canon "fix" a brand new $2k body, but couldn't risk losing the 30 return window from B&H, so returned and just sitting on my hands for now. Unfortunately, I didn't have another long lens to test with, but as you can see, the lens is perfect with my 50D. Another accomplished photographer friend of mine who has most of the Canon line returned his 7DII as well, with focus issues, although his were with birds in flight. Images attached for those who are curious.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 1, 2015)

aee said:


> Just thought I'd share my experience with this.



My condolences :-\. Of course 2 bodies is not such a large sample size and it *could* be the lens or IS, and the 50d has less metapixies so it appears "sharper" (esp. the afma scale doesn't look *that* much different to me). The watch looks outright horrible, *if* every shot is like this and *if* you are 100% sure you had good testing conditions (IS off, body on a tripod against camera shake). I can understand that you are too annoyed to go on trying with further bodies atm.


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## magura (Mar 14, 2015)

Hi There,

i don't have any Problems with the OneShot AF with my new 100-400 IS II...but the AI-Servo mode doesn't work.
I could not get any really sharp (in the 100% view) pictures...with the 5DIII in the same situation an the same lens everything is ok.

Has anyone used this combination without problems at AI-Servo? What's with the maximum aperture if 5,6..colud this be a problem?


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## Tugela (Mar 14, 2015)

If you insist on using a mirrored system you should expect problems of this sort, since the light path to the sensor is different from the light path to the focusing elements. Calibration problems will always be a potential issue.


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## East Wind Photography (Mar 14, 2015)

magura said:


> Hi There,
> 
> i don't have any Problems with the OneShot AF with my new 100-400 IS II...but the AI-Servo mode doesn't work.
> I could not get any really sharp (in the 100% view) pictures...with the 5DIII in the same situation an the same lens everything is ok.
> ...



I had a similar issue. One shot was working more or less but servo was always off. Afma adjustment also would not hold. I sent the camera back to canon for evaluation and they determined the mirror box and AF sensor was bad and was replaced and recalibrated. The unit now works like it should. They even paid for my shipping to Canon.

If you are not happy with it. Either return to the dealer if you can or get it back to canon. There is a solution to the problem.


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## magura (Mar 15, 2015)

ok...i think a Focus-Adjustment at the 7DII deos not make any sense, because in Oneshot Mode it works pretty well. I will sent it back...


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## T_Jamo (Mar 18, 2015)

Hi All,

First of all I would like to thanks everyone in this forum for sharing so much of useful information which was looking over web. I am new to forum and have got my Canon 7D mark ii as an upgrade from my Canon 600D less than two month back and have been noticing this missed Auto Focusing with "7D Mark II". 

Initially I thought it was me with some settings in the camera, Later as check everything by taking some test pictures with "One shot" with "Spot metering" using camera default setting and so on at closest focus range and full zoom range at f/2.8 and mid range above. None of the picture was in proper focus. I have also tried just focusing and not reframing to see the difference, not a difference. Since I am primarily using Tamron 24-70 Di VC USD lens. Then I tried taking some canon lens on rent and checked still the same issues. 

Finally I have visited the dealer from where I get both Tamron lens and 7D mark II. Share my concern and tested with some canon prime lenses on my 7D mark ii body they also notice the same focus issues. At the same time they also tested my Tamron lens using their Canon 70D and it was ok but slightly soft and suggested even the lens required some calibration.

Now on 16th Mar day before yesterday I had sent across 7D mark ii to Canon ( they acknowledge there was something wrong with the focusing as the testing by one of the engineer with canon 24-70f/2.8 L II was also having same issues and prompted will contact back in 5 days - Awaiting update) & I have sent my Lens to TAMRON, ( suggested they will run and check for needful and revert in one week). I am just waiting for any update form both Canon and Tamron.

Hope they will come clean this time!

Thnx
Jamo


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## aee (Mar 18, 2015)

Yeah, it's frustrating. I went through 4 bodies (2 sets of 2). I want that camera and know several folks who are thrilled with it, but do not want to have to send a brand new $2K camera (or 2) in for repair right after getting it. Especially since they would likely be mail order, and then I risk exceeding the return window. Obviously Canon doesn't want to make any official acknowledgement about this issue, but my confidence is shaken and I'm tired of hoping I get a good one (or 2) and having to deal with returns, etc.


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## East Wind Photography (Mar 18, 2015)

aee said:


> Yeah, it's frustrating. I went through 4 bodies (2 sets of 2). I want that camera and know several folks who are thrilled with it, but do not want to have to send a brand new $2K camera (or 2) in for repair right after getting it. Especially since they would likely be mail order, and then I risk exceeding the return window. Obviously Canon doesn't want to make any official acknowledgement about this issue, but my confidence is shaken and I'm tired of hoping I get a good one (or 2) and having to deal with returns, etc.



I feel your pain. However while you are wanting, I got mine repaired and I am pretty excited now with the quality coming out of it. I know a number of professionals who have bought the high end L lenses and immediately shipped them off to Canon for checkup and calibration. There was nothing noticeably wrong, just that they wanted to make sure they were collimated and functioning at or better than factory spec.

You should not hold out just because you could not get one of the early batches that didn't meet to your expectations. If you search for my posts here since the 7D2 release, you will see that I was very critical and very disappointed with performance. Once I was sure it was the camera and not my lens or my bad technique, I sent it in and the mirror box and AF sensor was replaced and they did a full factory calibration and check out. Now the AF performs almost exactly as my 5D3 and I can now to start to make the claim that it is my mini-1dx.

Firmware bugs still exist but they are not stopping me from now using it as my primary sports and wildlife camera.

My recommendation is to buy one, take several days to check out the performance and function, and then send it to Canon (I used Newport News facility, very good customer service and the work there is exceptional) if it's not meeting your expectations. Cameras these days are complex devices that can suffer from any of a million different issues.

I like to think about it in the frame of buying a piano. You can by the worlds most expensive grand piano but before you play, you need to have it checked out and tuned.

For my 7D2, it was fixed and now I could care less that it had an issue out of the box because I know it's now working EXACTLY like Canon originally intended.


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## aee (Mar 18, 2015)

True, you make some good points re. perspective. That is a helpful way to look at it. Thanks.


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## eriseD (Jun 2, 2015)

I have had nothing but problems with this body. At first I thought it was my Tamron 70-200 DI VC as it seemed to happen on that the most (and was my most heavily used lens) But recently discovered it happens on all lenses but it's very sporadic. My AF just decides to back or front focus, now how do you adjust for that? I think there is enough of an issue here for canon to wake up and take accountability. So tired of consumers being taken for a ride.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 4, 2015)

eriseD said:


> I have had nothing but problems with this body. At first I thought it was my Tamron 70-200 DI VC as it seemed to happen on that the most (and was my most heavily used lens) But recently discovered it happens on all lenses but it's very sporadic. My AF just decides to back or front focus, now how do you adjust for that? I think there is enough of an issue here for canon to wake up and take accountability. So tired of consumers being taken for a ride.



Accountability? Canon repaired mine in three days AND paid for shipping both ways. Just call the repair center and they will take care of it.


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## sherlock67 (Jun 5, 2015)

I have just made the jump and purchased a 7D Mk2, after months of deliberation, from my trusty 50D. So far the images I have taken have been good, but I have not tested all Autofocus settings, as it has only had a few outings so far...

Can anybody here tell me the tests (or range of tests) I would need to carry-out, at different settings etc. to fully check that my 7D Mk2's autofocus is 'functioning' correctly?

Cheers


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## digital paradise (Jun 13, 2015)

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26639.msg527153#msg527153


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## Ruined (Jul 27, 2015)

sherlock67 said:


> I have just made the jump and purchased a 7D Mk2, after months of deliberation, from my trusty 50D. So far the images I have taken have been good, but I have not tested all Autofocus settings, as it has only had a few outings so far...
> 
> Can anybody here tell me the tests (or range of tests) I would need to carry-out, at different settings etc. to fully check that my 7D Mk2's autofocus is 'functioning' correctly?
> 
> Cheers



+1 any typical known cases that trip up the faulty bodies?


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## StudentOfLight (Jul 28, 2015)

With the 7D-II, which AF points are cross-type with a lens of maximum aperture f/5.6?


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## tron (Jul 28, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> With the 7D-II, which AF points are cross-type with a lens of maximum aperture f/5.6?


http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/8/0300016618/01/eos7d-mk2-bim-en.pdf

pages 82-86


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## StudentOfLight (Jul 28, 2015)

tron said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > With the 7D-II, which AF points are cross-type with a lens of maximum aperture f/5.6?
> ...


Thanks for the link Tron


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