# 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 10, 2012)

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<p><strong>Interesting thought

</strong>A split in the 5D line has been rumoured for a while now. This rumor was not submitted to me, instead it was sent to [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html">NL</a>]. It’s consistent with some things I have heard, however take this one with a large grain of salt.</p>
<p><strong>5D X</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>45MP (With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X)</li>
<li>61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)</li>
<li>3.4 fps, 100-6400 (50-12800)</li>
<li>1 Digic 5+ Digic 4</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>5D Mark III</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>22MP</li>
<li>61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)</li>
<li>6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)</li>
<li>1 Digic 5+ Digic 4</li>
<li>Best HD video quality of any EOS camera</li>
</ul>
<p>Both over $3k</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html">NL</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## wickidwombat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

hah if thats true I'll take 2 of each

i wonder if that is the case if i can still get $2k each for my 5Dmk2s at 6months old
hmmm


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## CrimsonBlue (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Bring it. If only to stop the constant "I'm switching to Nikon" and "Canon hates its customers" threads.


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## Meh (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Sweet! But I'll still save up and get the 1DX which is just about perfect for my uses.


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## Positron (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

The one thing I've been failing to understand with all the 5D replacement spec rumors is why a high MP camera (be it a single model or one of two) would have anything near pro-grade AF. Normally AF is a huge differentiating factor between lines and would pump the cost up quite a bit, but any camera with high MP is clearly being marketed to a studio/landscape/macro crowd in which AF performance is far less important. Yes, I'd love to see something better than the 5D Mark II's AF system, but I think anything even remotely approaching the 1DX's AF is a recipe for a 1Ds Mark III repeat.

If there are two models, I believe it makes the most sense for one to prioritize resolution and low ISO performance while the other prioritizes speed, AF, and high ISO performance. Generally speaking, photographers want one or the other. If they want both, then they should be willing to pay the massive premium for a flagship 1D-series camera.


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## Picsfor (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

i think these specs sound more like a wish list in part...

Over £3k for these bodies? Th 45mp i could expect as being £3k +, but a 5D3 will cause a riot at over £3k.
Especially as the only main area of improvement is with AF, and yet most improvements seem to come from the usage of the Digic5+ and the 1DX Digic 4 AF system.

Superb Video? I suppose that would get a lot of people happy with this, but would it be as good as what the 1DX is offering?


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## coltsfreak18 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Yet Canon does not plan on either of these being the 4k cinema DSLR? Not going to lie, but this seems like a pretty good solution for a 5D replacement.

Wedding, low-light, movie makers, and even sports photogs can use the 5DIII for their purposes; yet when high iso speeds are unnecessary, such as in a studio or in landscape environments, the 5dX provides great resolution.

Interestingly, the 5DIII sounds more like what the 5dX should be (sports, speed, low-light, and movie hybrid), and the 5Dx sound more like the natural successor to the 5DII (landscape, high-resolution portraiture).

That said, I don't anticipate these specs coming to fruition.


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## shuttersound (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Damn....its so hard to choose between these 2. Most pro i will go with the Mk3 which has higher FPS and ISO...just hoping they announced real soon.


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## lol (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

That "5DX" is what I want! Only trouble is I suspect the used market would be flooded by 5D2s so reselling at a decent price is going to be tough then.


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## fotoray (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



wickidwombat said:


> hah if thats true I'll take 2 of each
> 
> i wonder if that is the case if i can still get $2k each for my 5Dmk2s at 6months old
> hmmm



Is that an offer?

The 5D X approach addresses the MP race with D800. With high FPS, the 5D Mk3 seems like a FF 7D.

Both are pricey!!!


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## wickidwombat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Positron said:


> The one thing I've been failing to understand with all the 5D replacement spec rumors is why a high MP camera (be it a single model or one of two) would have anything near pro-grade AF. Normally AF is a huge differentiating factor between lines and would pump the cost up quite a bit, but any camera with high MP is clearly being marketed to a studio/landscape/macro crowd in which AF performance is far less important. Yes, I'd love to see something better than the 5D Mark II's AF system, but I think anything even remotely approaching the 1DX's AF is a recipe for a 1Ds Mark III repeat.
> 
> If there are two models, I believe it makes the most sense for one to prioritize resolution and low ISO performance while the other prioritizes speed, AF, and high ISO performance. Generally speaking, photographers want one or the other. If they want both, then they should be willing to pay the massive premium for a flagship 1D-series camera.



becasue Nikon AF has been beating the hell out of canon non 1D AF for quite some time now and canon are stepping up to plate with a big bat


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## cpsico (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Never would I waste my money on a 45 megapixel full frame camera, 21 megapixels already exceeds my needs


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## ghosh9691 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I doubt if these will be above $3k!!! With the D800 now out, I can see the 5DX being aroun $3200-3500, but I think the 5DMk III would be below that...probably around $2700. at least that's what I would do if I were a product manager at Canon.


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## Waterdonkey (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Hoping these stats hold. The video upgrade of the 5DIII sounds very good to me. Looks like a fine still cam as well.


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## benperrin (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

The mkIII variant looks like my perfect camera! Please let it be true.


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## Maui5150 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



ghosh9691 said:


> I doubt if these will be above $3k!!! With the D800 now out, I can see the 5DX being aroun $3200-3500, but I think the 5DMk III would be below that...probably around $2700. at least that's what I would do if I were a product manager at Canon.



And why is that.

Looks like the Canon 5D MKIII will have 

Better AF
Much Better ISO (25600 native versus 6400)
Double FPS
Video on par or better perhaps.

The only thing the D800 offers is large MP, which a lot of people don't want.

So compared to the current 5D MK II which sells around $2300 retail... 

Much higher ISO
EXTREMELY Better AF
Faster FPS
and not sure what other bells and whistles are in there, but AF, FPS and ISO are each big improvement areas.


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## JR (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Darn, now this will cost me 2 new cameras instead of one cause I would want them both! Wait, make that 3 since the 1DX is a given for me...     

Canon, you will bleed me dry in 2012! Not to mention a few more lens! I LOVE IT!!!!!!!

Jacques


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## EYEONE (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

That 5D Mark III seems like my dream camera. If that is a true spec list I will absolutely buy one.


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## adamfilip (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I think this is the 3DX and 5DX


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## willhuff.net (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

45mp would be amazing for landscapes. I only hope that it has sRAW at sizes that would be ideal for weddings (15-18mp)


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## adamfilip (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..


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## johnnyblues (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I pee'd on my pants reading the 5dm3 specs.


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## pdirestajr (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

If there was a 22mp/ 61pt AF/ 6.9fps camera cheaper than the 1D-X, who would buy the 1D??

Isn't the 5D line positioned as the $2-3,000.00 FF camera?


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## BDD (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

If there is this "split" I think it would be a smart move for Canon. Getting more of this market segment (since Nikon has chosen to only cater to the high MP crowd with their 2 versions of the D800). Satisfying the 2 types of buyers (high MP and high native ISO/low MP) . Without alienating either group. If those specs are accurate...I'll take 1 "5D3". 

And to think...if you started as a "high ISO/low MP" shooter and later decided to do wedding photography/landscape/studio work...you'd have a choice...the 5DX....no need to buy a new set of lenses (if you were to jump ship and buy a Nikon D800).

Now if only Canon would already make the announcement.


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## marekjoz (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

If these specs would materialize, then probably instead of Canon rather some used Nikon gear would be available on sale.


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## wellfedCanuck (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Positron said:


> The one thing I've been failing to understand with all the 5D replacement spec rumors is why a high MP camera (be it a single model or one of two) would have anything near pro-grade AF. Normally AF is a huge differentiating factor between lines and would pump the cost up quite a bit, but any camera with high MP is clearly being marketed to a studio/landscape/macro crowd in which AF performance is far less important.


The aerial photography crowd needs pro-grade AF along with high MP.


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## willhuff.net (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



adamfilip said:


> why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..



Images would take up more space on memory cards, resulting in more memory card changes during a shoot. Images would take more time to download, then time spent downsampling and converting to a new file and erasing the original. Time is money...


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## marekjoz (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Two cameras with different sensors or same sensors but different firmware?


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## KWSW (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

If the 5D3 specs turns out true, looks like I know what to get as an upgrade to my 7D


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## Danack (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Picsfor said:


> Over £3k for these bodies?



Actually the post say over *$*3k for these bodies.

Putting that into the usual dollar to pound exchange rate used for electronic items gives..... er, ok. I guess over £3k :-\


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## cliffwang (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



marekjoz said:


> Two cameras with different sensors or same sensors but different firmware?



I believe they should be the different sensors.


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## t.linn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Sign me up for the Mark III if this is accurate. Keep the 45MP. I'll take the (finally) decent AF, frame rate, and superior low light abilities of the 22MP model.


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## lbloom (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

How about a 5D X*E* version without an AA filter? eh???? :


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## Grigbar (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

[email protected] CR is sure doing a good job baiting people along. 

ANy way a Canon rep has already said the 1DX will have the best video of all the cameras.


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## ghosh9691 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Maui5150 said:


> ghosh9691 said:
> 
> 
> > I doubt if these will be above $3k!!! With the D800 now out, I can see the 5DX being aroun $3200-3500, but I think the 5DMk III would be below that...probably around $2700. at least that's what I would do if I were a product manager at Canon.
> ...



Because the D800 will be compared to the 5DX, my friend. Its all a matter of perception. The first thing that will capture people's attention is the mega-pixel number - where we like that or not. I think it would make more sense to price the 5DX above the D800 and the 5D3 just below it...

Personally, I would go for the 5D3 instead of the 5DX...but then I am pretty happy with my 5D2 and don't need either one of these


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## DBCdp (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

With wedding season, senior season, and all out spring right around the corner, they need to do something pretty darn quick or it'll be next years business. I for one am looking at getting glass and passing on this years upgrade while they figure it all out.


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## baronng (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Sounds quite reasonable to have a new product line to fight against D800

1D X - super high fps (12-14), high ISO performance, 18M, 61 points AF, 6-7K, vs D4, available in Mar
3D X - low fps (4-5), low ISO performance, 36M+, no AA filter, 1D's 45 points AF, 3-4K, vs D800, perhaps with 4K video), announcement in Sep (photokina)
5D X - mid fps (5-8), high ISO performance, 22M, 7D's 19 points AF, 2-3K, entry level FF/video cam, announcement in end of Feb


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## silversurfer96 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Rumor or not, I like it. Keep it coming!!! That would be awesome to have both options.


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## Woody (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Interesting proposal. Canon combine 1D and 1Ds into 1DX. Then proceed to split 5D into 5D and 5DX. Cooooool. Way cooooool....

We'll see how real this one is... Remember previous murmurings about 1D and 1Ds being combined, and how that turns out into reality?


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## adamfilip (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



willhuff.net said:


> adamfilip said:
> 
> 
> > why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..
> ...


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## Justin (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Positron said:


> If there are two models, I believe it makes the most sense for one to prioritize resolution and low ISO performance while the other prioritizes speed, AF, and high ISO performance. Generally speaking, photographers want one or the other. If they want both, then they should be willing to pay the massive premium for a flagship 1D-series camera.



Ummm... Canon doesn't make this kind of camera with "both" anymore.


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## sheedoe (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Given the specs, I would definitely choose the 5D III over the 5D X. ISO performance is more important to me than megapixels.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I really dont want the 1D bulk so these rumoured specs look pretty much on the money for me and if they get 61pt AF then it really looks like canon have seen the error of their ways. the waitign list for these bad boys is going to be Lonnnnngg!

I wonder if i can place pre-orders based on Cr rumour specs.... hmmm


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## KT (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

The part that doesn't make a whole lot of sense is why would they develop a new FF 22 MP sensor for the 5D Mark III when they just released another FF 18 MP for the 1D x. The difference in resolution between 18 and 22 is so small it's barely worth the cost and effort that must have went into R&D unless one is suited for video while the other for stills, doubt it. On the other hand, if Canon is going to release a FF 45 MP sensor, they must have developed a whole new sensor technology to overcome noise because with the current technology, that thing will be next to useless above ISO 1600.


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## BDD (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Assuming there will be a 5D3 and 5DX I hope they do stick to the rumoured pricing for the 5D3 at $2700 (the version I would buy) with maybe a $500 increase for the 5DX.

Nikon, in Toronto, has priced the D800 at $3149.95 (w/ AA) and $3449.95 (w/o AA). Where is the D800 being sold for under $3000 already? Not that I care since the D800 is a high MP camera. Not for me.


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## Orion (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I'm tired of "interesting thoughts" and doing the splits. . . . just decide on one and announce it already. 

I'm in the market for 2 cameras, and I need them by end of April (fat chance, it seems), so that's why I am getting an little antsy . . . otherwise, it would've been "take your time "


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## RedEye (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Not so sure I'm on board with the split strategy. I don't think a camera at under 3K (and they'll probably be within 100.00 of Nikon's price) is able to fully compete in any one area substantially and sufficiently to be rendered a$3000.00USD specilized tool which only does one thing well. 

if it did shoot hi-res as well as a medium format, they could charge 5K and most rational people would consider it a bargin. If it did shoot video as well as the C300, it would be 5K and we would open our wallets faster than a sorority girl in the AM MCD drive thru. 

The most reasonable proposition is that they will stretch the newest technology as far as possible - probably sensor - and probably similar to the nikon still/video combo set up, and then pile on tons of otherwise last generation technology which was held sacrosanct until well distributed horizontally and vertically in the consumer market. This way they will get the most competitive and paid for technology at the core, and then cover all their bases with the silly stuff such as facial rec and built in levels.. ect.ect. 

It's not going to be 22MP. I'm going to leave bet myself $100.00 that it will be over 30MP. In this regard, we shouldn't care about technology, or DR, or any photo blather, it's just the competitive market place demands it, and the technology is priced and avaivable. 

Now... on to the happy stuff. What's more likely if Canon is to get a leg up (weird phrase eh?). 
1) Entirely New Sensor Tech (more likely in 2013, however posible) - big competitive advantages.
2) New Recording / Transmitting / Processing Chip Tech
3) New Body Form
4) Entirely New Focusing / Optical Technology
5) New Software Technology

So which of these is the most likely tit for tat announcement now that Nikon has made their Chess move? I pick in the order of first to last 5, 2, 1, 4, 3. If Nan, or None of the Above - then the only other option is to expand one of the catagories further or piling on other old goodies already with proven demand. 

Anyhow, this is all fun. Hope you like software and tons of pixels! 

Red


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## cpsico (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



adamfilip said:


> why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..


Lol because no one needs 45 megapixel reception pics, for those 10 megapixels are more than enough


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## Apple Tree Studios (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

As a wedding photographer I would love the split. The high megapixels is no use to me, but give me two stops of extra ISO usable over my trusty 5Dmk2 and better video and I will be a happy camper. The focus too has to be better. I have taken to borrowing a Nikon D3s with the new 70-200 VR on the last few wedding I shot and really noticed then how bad my 5Dmk2 focus is in low light next to the D3s. But i way prefer the Canon skin tones and since I have thousands of $ in L lenses I will stick with Canon. I think my old 20D had the same auto focus as the 5Dmk2, so any upgrade has to have better AF. I will wait and see if the ISO is better. I am on the fence between the 1DX and a 5D. But if I can get two %d bodies with ISO usable to 12500 I will be happy. I found the D3s is usable in churches that will not allow flash at 12500. My 5Dmk2 is good up to 5000.

As for video the 5Dmk2 is already awesome. Fix the rolling shutter a bit more and thats about all I ask for there.

Just my five cents!


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## cpsico (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



KT said:


> The part that doesn't make a whole lot of sense is why would they develop a new FF 22 MP sensor for the 5D Mark III when they just released another FF 18 MP for the 1D x. The difference in resolution between 18 and 22 is so small it's barely worth the cost and effort that must have went into R&D unless one is suited for video while the other for stills, doubt it. On the other hand, if Canon is going to release a FF 45 MP sensor, they must have developed a whole new sensor technology to overcome noise because with the current technology, that thing will be next to useless above ISO 1600.


Next to useless over iso 400


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Grigbar said:


> [email protected] CR is sure doing a good job baiting people along.
> 
> ANy way a Canon rep has already said the 1DX will have the best video of all the cameras.



I thought the rep said it had the best video at the time of the announcement or something more like that. I could be wrong. But why they would keep the best video in an expensive bulky package with stuff video people don't need would seem to be a weird move to me.

That said the fact that the rumors calls the slow, high MP camera the 5DX 5D2+7D cross and the fast speed one the 5D3 doesn't make sense to me which makes me think it's all just some speculation combo wish list.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



baronng said:


> Sounds quite reasonable to have a new product line to fight against D800
> 
> 1D X - super high fps (12-14), high ISO performance, 18M, 61 points AF, 6-7K, vs D4, available in Mar
> 3D X - low fps (4-5), low ISO performance, 36M+, no AA filter, 1D's 45 points AF, 3-4K, vs D800, perhaps with 4K video), announcement in Sep (photokina)
> 5D X - mid fps (5-8), high ISO performance, 22M, 7D's 19 points AF, 2-3K, entry level FF/video cam, announcement in end of Feb



If the 3DX is named after the top AF, high speed EOS 3 when would it be the slow fps, high MP body?
And why would they put 1D 45pt action AF on the low fps 3DX there and the 7D AF on the high speed action 5DX?


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## D_Rochat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I'm without a doubt going to hold off on pulling the trigger on a 5DII now in hopes that they produce a model with the 5DIII specs. I'm in no rush so I can wait. If they stay below the $3000 mark, I will get one. Canon typically is slightly cheaper than the Nikon counterparts, so it's possible. An affordable FF body capable of shooting fast action........ mmmmmm.


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## alexng0302 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

For all of you, I am not sure if this is a correct source or not, but Taiwanese Photographer Kevin Wang, who was lucky enough to have the chance to test the 5Dmk3, just posted a video of the 5dmk3 commercial video on his facebook, it seems that the specs are:

28.1 megapixel, 8.2fps continuious shooting mode, iso range 50-12800 (I assume this is including h1&h2), digic 5 processor, 45 cross typed af points and similar body design with the mk2 but with slight adjustment ergonomically. ~

Anyone got any info on that one?? please correct me if i am wrong~


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## mathino (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



alexng0302 said:


> For all of you, I am not sure if this is a correct source or not, but Taiwanese Photographer Kevin Wang, who was lucky enough to have the chance to test the 5Dmk3, just posted a video of the 5dmk3 commercial video on his facebook, it seems that the specs are:
> 
> 28.1 megapixel, 8.2fps continuious shooting mode, iso range 50-12800 (I assume this is including h1&h2), digic 5 processor, 45 cross typed af points and similar body design with the mk2 but with slight adjustment ergonomically. ~
> 
> Anyone got any info on that one?? please correct me if i am wrong~



Would you mind providing some link or so ? Would be really nice to check.


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## Ricku (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



alexng0302 said:


> For all of you, I am not sure if this is a correct source or not, but Taiwanese Photographer Kevin Wang, who was lucky enough to have the chance to test the 5Dmk3, just posted a video of the 5dmk3 commercial video on his facebook, it seems that the specs are:
> 
> 28.1 megapixel, 8.2fps continuious shooting mode, iso range 50-12800 (I assume this is including h1&h2), digic 5 processor, 45 cross typed af points and similar body design with the mk2 but with slight adjustment ergonomically. ~
> 
> Anyone got any info on that one?? please correct me if i am wrong~



Impossible.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

This "rumor" magically reflects the exact speculations that were thrown left and right here over the past few days. Doesn't seem very credible to me.


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## D_Rochat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kevin-wang/310842802287944

No video of a 5D mark III.


----------



## Musouka (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

5DIII for me, if true. 45MP would just eat up my HDD!

Several prototypes of these cameras must exist so there will be lots of contradicting pieces of information.

A silly reason: 5+III = 8 which makes it a natural upgrade path for my 7D


----------



## daniemare (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



KT said:


> The part that doesn't make a whole lot of sense is why would they develop a new FF 22 MP sensor for the 5D Mark III when they just released another FF 18 MP for the 1D x. The difference in resolution between 18 and 22 is so small it's barely worth the cost and effort that must have went into R&D unless one is suited for video while the other for stills, doubt it. On the other hand, if Canon is going to release a FF 45 MP sensor, they must have developed a whole new sensor technology to overcome noise because with the current technology, that thing will be next to useless above ISO 1600.



I agree - does not make business sense to have 3 FF sensors out there. Look ho they recycled the APS-C sensors and 1Ds / 5D mark II


----------



## Gcon (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

The rumor sounds pretty credible to me. Canon always want to keep up with Nikon and vice versa and I can't imagine they would give the megapixel crown to Nikon after having it for so long (D3x excluded on price 

That 45 megapixel though - if you divide by 1.6^2 you get 17.57MP which is a tad less than 18MP which is what you get on the 7D. Thus the pixel density would be very similar to the 7D - just a bit under. I actually dislike the 7D image quality with a passion as I bought one and shot with plenty of L glass and the noise is horrible even at base ISO100 compared to my 5DMarkII. Other people like the 7D and if you're one of them then I'm happy for you. For me though I'm not touching a camera with that kind of pixel density with a 40-foot pole. If I ever want 40MP I'll buy a Pentax 645D and give those megapixels the space they really need. I don't want to spend my days in Lightroom and Photoshop adjusting the noise reduction sliders (landscape) or using blur tools to soften bokeh areas (portrait).

That 5DMarkIII - wow that is right up my alley! I so so hope it is spec'ed like that and be the cheaper of the two.

61 points AF! I hope they have X-type sensors left and right and they are spread out! please! 5D2 has 9 AF points but I can only rely on one of them - the centre. So it's not the sheer # of AF points - it's the usable ones that count. Give me a grid of say 19 x-type sensors (like the 7D) spread out and I'll be very very happy.

The 6.9 FPS. Wow that will blow me away after being used to 3.9. Sports pros would scoff with their 1Dx's but it's a huge improvement for me.

22MP - ooh yeah I think 18-24MP range is the sweetest range for pixel density in full frame cameras.

I'd happily buy the 1Dx except I don't want to have to lug that portrait grip on my big overnight hikes, so essentially I'm after something smaller and just as rugged.

Things that are missing from this spec sheet is WEATHER SEALING. I'd be p1ssed if the 5Dx gets all the shoot-all-day-in-the-rain weather sealing and the 5DIII doesn't. I hope Canon seal them both right up. I'd happily pay and extra $500 or more for decent weather sealing!


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

The 5Diii would be just fine for me. Make it 2900 then. 

But sensorwise, without too much of knowledge about it I'd keep to Keith's comment over at NL: 
"I'm minded to think that if this were so, then Canon would use a derivative of the 18MP 1DX sensor rather than another new FF one (18/45 is likely less development effort than 18/22/45)"

well, time will tell. 51k ISO surely won't look bad. Dream cam for me.


----------



## wickidwombat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I hope the MP monster has better IQ than the 7D aka 18MP crops, that would be disapointing to say the least
hopefully they have refined the tech in recent years to get better sharpness out of them maybe removing the AA filter like the D800E. fingers crossed.


----------



## RuneL (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

This is excellent, best way to do it, IMO. They'll capture all of the disappointed D800 customers too. Awesome, Canon. Let's do it!


----------



## wickidwombat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

So how many threads will NR see going something like... "dammit nikon wont give me what I want thats it i'm changing to canon!"


----------



## sphax (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Hey everyone, I'm gonna try something new here, no rumors, no guess and no jokes like "18-55 F/3,5-5,6 L IS" 
Instead, just a really down-to-earth question for you pros of Canon items ... I'm a happy owner of 7D who wants to go FullFrame for his GREAT road trip of August month, do you think I have a chance to own the 5DmkIII until then, or shall I go right now with the 5DmkII 'cos mkIII is just a chimera ?? 
Thanks buddies !


----------



## wickidwombat (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



sphax said:


> Hey everyone, I'm gonna try something new here, no rumors, no guess and no jokes like "18-55 F/3,5-5,6 L IS"
> Instead, just a really down-to-earth question for you pros of Canon items ... I'm a happy owner of 7D who wants to go FullFrame for his GREAT road trip of August month, do you think I have a chance to own the 5DmkIII until then, or shall I go right now with the 5DmkII 'cos mkIII is just a chimera ??
> Thanks buddies !



august you might just scrape in if you preorder the minute the official release is out


----------



## sphax (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



wickidwombat said:


> sphax said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everyone, I'm gonna try something new here, no rumors, no guess and no jokes like "18-55 F/3,5-5,6 L IS"
> ...



Sh*** REALLY ? Is it that long to release ?... grrrrrr ! And any idea when it will be out in stores ? Like july/august I guess, right ?... Pffffff


----------



## mememe (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

... Oh oh oh... 

I rate this CR0!

Its bollocks.

if it would be like you say the names would be the other way... X for less MP (like the 1dx) and 5dIII for high Megapixel...

But... Its NOT like the Rumor says...


----------



## Bob_McBob (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

This is hilarious. Insane D800 specs confirmed? Canon fantasy wish list rumours updated to match.


----------



## motorhead (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I do hope its true. The high mp version would be my dream camera.

Its what I hope Canon will eventually do with the 1Dx, because its speciality means it will not suit everyone as it stands.


----------



## Musouka (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



wickidwombat said:


> I hope the MP monster has better IQ than the 7D aka 18MP crops, that would be disapointing to say the least
> hopefully they have refined the tech in recent years to get better sharpness out of them maybe removing the AA filter like the D800E. fingers crossed.



18MP Canon APS-C = 46MP FF (18 x 1.6^2) so we have One (1) entire MP to spare 8)

AND the sensor technology *must* have advanced enough in the past 3 years to make the ISO performance a bit better! ;D

What I find suspicious is the "With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X" comment in the rumor. Shouldn't it be like the 7D in pixel size? ???


----------



## nicku (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

If the rumors are true, than Canon have did the smartest move. launching two 5d cameras ( one with very good ISO performance and one with high MP) will ''reconcile'' all canon users. Everybody will have the opinion to chose what they want: High MP or good ISO performance and speed.

I really hope that the rumors are true.


----------



## Musouka (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Fake 

Hot shoe is black and no dial lock button  ;D

Also, the III in Mark III is clearly photoshoped! I know because I have seen a couple of these in my days!


----------



## stefsan (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Gcon said:


> I'd happily buy the 1Dx except I don't want to have to lug that portrait grip on my big overnight hikes, so essentially I'm after something smaller and just as rugged.
> 
> Things that are missing from this spec sheet is WEATHER SEALING. I'd be p1ssed if the 5Dx gets all the shoot-all-day-in-the-rain weather sealing and the 5DIII doesn't. I hope Canon seal them both right up. I'd happily pay and extra $500 or more for decent weather sealing!



I'm with you on that one! The 5DIII version with decent weather sealing would be my winner!


----------



## kapanak (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Radeusz said:


> Canon EOS 5D Mark III Commercial:
> 
> Canon EOS 5D Mark III Commercial



The video and photos seem rather old. http://blog.dominikwoerner.com/die-canon-5d-mark-iii/

I'd certainly be disappointed with the ISO range if true. Same as the AF (since we were being spoiled with the possibility of 1DX AF showing up in 5DIII). Looks legit though. Like something Canon planned to announce back in October.


----------



## teho (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



nicku said:


> If the rumors are true, than Canon have did the smartest move. launching two 5d cameras ( one with very good ISO performance and one with high MP) will ''reconcile'' all canon users. Everybody will have the opinion to chose what they want: High MP or good ISO performance and speed.
> 
> I really hope that the rumors are true.



Why not both MP and good ISO? Seems D800 has both and it would not be hard to choose then.

And Canon should not put a simpler AF (from 1Dx) in the 5D follower, just use the same.

- teho


----------



## noodles (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

For me: 5D MKIII
And because of 6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)

The 5D X only excels on MP. I personally don't need that. 
But I like higher ISO and the advantage of 6.9fps is great next to my 7D


----------



## vlim (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

If this rumor is true, hopefully it'll end all this crying posts ! And if that's true that's a smart move from Canon


----------



## yunusoglu (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Splitting a line while merging another (1D series) doesn't seem very logical to me.
I'm sure we'll soon see 2 new DSLRs from Canon but I doubt they'll belong to the same line...


----------



## psolberg (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

This is likely fake. A mere reaction to the d800 from fans. I believe the 22 mp 5diii. This 5dx stuff at 40 mp is a pipedream.


----------



## DzPhotography (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Radeusz said:


> Canon EOS 5D Mark III Commercial:


that's as old as the street and fake as hell :


----------



## Jimmy_D (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

when i looked at this post i saw two cameras that look "incomplete". 5dx seems to have insufficient iso range, so noiseless night shots will become even harder to get, and the 5d3 seems to have great video, great af system, great iso range BUT with much less resolution. Therefore my conclusion is that the 5dx MUST get higher iso range if canon wants this model competitive.


----------



## Edwin Herdman (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

What I don't get is, with the 1D X brand being marketed as "highest quality ISO, fast shooting speeds, lower pixel count, best video" the split mentioned here (of course it's a CR1) has the 1D X like camera getting a 5D III moniker, while the slower-shooting, high MP camera gets the X name...it seems inconsistent to me.

Something tells me this might just be an attempt to put names to two prototypes out there in the field, and nothing to do with the names we'll end up seeing in shipping units.


----------



## well_dunno (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

this rumor is taken with a very large grain of salt...


----------



## RuneL (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



teho said:


> nicku said:
> 
> 
> > If the rumors are true, than Canon have did the smartest move. launching two 5d cameras ( one with very good ISO performance and one with high MP) will ''reconcile'' all canon users. Everybody will have the opinion to chose what they want: High MP or good ISO performance and speed.
> ...



POOMA:
If they do that they will be repeating the D700, which I doubt they will. They will also be cannibalizing the 7D, I think.
Making a cheaper almost as good as the 1D X 5D is, well, I dunno, not clever. But then again, if you need the 1D X you'll probably get, on the other hand, with a bad economy many might actually get a 5D instead of forgoing an upgrade all together, because the 1D X is too expensive. Maybe it's really clever... ?!?!


----------



## capertillar (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

if they were to split the 5d line, i actually wouldnt be terribly surprised, but certainly do not expect the naming scheme to be 5dmk3 and 5dx... 

i think it makes more sense to have 1 version of the top of the line pro dslr and >1 versions of semi-pro FF bodies...


----------



## mrmarks (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

What's the point of a 45MP camera when its way above the resolving power of any Canon lens?


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Is it? It wold be about the density of 7d sensor and as far it works in 7d some way...


----------



## kirillica (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



mrmarks said:


> What's the point of a 45MP camera when its way above the resolving power of any Canon lens?


1) Not any. 
2) Canon upgrading their lenses this year very aggressively - sounds like a bell?


----------



## pakosouthpark (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

sounds good apart from the price.. i think the lowest MP should be under 3k


----------



## torger (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Where's the cinema DSLR in this (which canon actually has announced that it is in development)? Both a 5D split *and* a cinema DSLR? Seems strange.


----------



## Joellll (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Radeusz said:


> Canon EOS 5D Mark III Commercial:
> 
> Canon EOS 5D Mark III Commercial


I certainly hope the camera isn't coming *this fall*. ;D


----------



## vuilang (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



mrmarks said:


> What's the point of a 45MP camera when its way above the resolving power of any Canon lens?


Where do you get your infos/sources that current lenses cannot support 45mp Sensor? or is it that you only heard people saying it?


----------



## Picsfor (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

And then of course...

Canon could have deliberately leaked this rumour as a sounding board.

We know they read these forums, what better way to find out the thoughts of potential customers. Then they can say 
"we listened to what our customer base wanted..."

This sort of site is, after all, a 2 way street. Both Canon and CR get a benefit from working together like this.


----------



## frisk (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Considering that a split like this has been discussed here for a while, I am just wondering if this is anything more than a rumour circle - somebody read it here, sent the rumour to NL, and then it found its way back here.

Having said that, I would not object to it being true - I would jump on the "22MP, High-ISO, improved AF" camera in an instant.

I do, however, find it rather unlikely that the two cameras would have the same AF system, but....this is just a CR1 rumour after all, so I am not taking it too seriously.

There seems to be a fairly reliable indication that Canon will be offering a video-oriented EOS camera this year, and quite frankly I find it very unlikely that they will be introducing 3 new ones, so "if" there is a split and we get two different successors to the 5D2, one of them would have to be the "video-oriented" one.

So, shat is more likely - a 40+MP camera with decent video and a 22MP one with top-notch video (as this rumour states) OR a 40+MP camera with top-notch video and a 22MP one with decent video? I'm not 100% certain, but I am certain someone can give a good technical explanation on why one case must be more feasible than the other.


----------



## te4o (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

So, which one of the two was seen in Kenya on the safari with the Canon-guy? :-\


----------



## jeremymerriam (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I think this rumor deserves a CR of 0

The only thing that seems to make sense is the rumor of 2 cameras in the works. A studio higher megapixel (hopefully no more AA filter), and probably the 5DX since the x seems to be the new marketing letter they are using for all the new models coming out around the same time.


----------



## Picsfor (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

People seem to be making much of 'why would they use 1DX AF on lower priced models?

The answer has also been given time and again.

Cost.

No R&D required to improve the 5D2 AF, no R&D to port the 7D AF.

Just put it straight in to the new body. So, manufacturing costs go through the floor, R&D save a huge fortune on development, and the undeciders will now be choosing the stunning Canon AF over the Nikon AF.

7D brigade will get their upgrade in a stroke, 5D2 brigade will get all of their upgrade options in a stroke, and Canon will be able to generate extra revenue by seeing togs own 3 bodies instead of 2.

Why 3 instead of 2? Well, let's suppose you're a wedding tog. You will have two of the 22mp bodies (bread and butter cameras), but would still like the benefits of 45mp for those large group shots or lovely double page panoramic shots you see in the albums/ books. So, instead of just 2 bodies, you now own 3, and you've bought them for not much more than a 1DX - great value.

Canon make extra profit, you get extra value - and those wanting the more robust weather sealed all singing all dancing will still go for the 1DX.

This option, if true, would be a win win for Canon and its customers - new or old.


----------



## stefsan (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



well_dunno said:


> this rumor is taken with a very large grain of salt...



Man, these sure are thirsty times with all this salt… ;D


----------



## torger (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



frisk said:


> So, shat is more likely - a 40+MP camera with decent video and a 22MP one with top-notch video (as this rumour states) OR a 40+MP camera with top-notch video and a 22MP one with decent video? I'm not 100% certain, but I am certain someone can give a good technical explanation on why one case must be more feasible than the other.



4K video pixel binned 4:1 would yield about 40 MP sensor. Aiming a single product at both videographers and high res fashion/studio/landscape shooters might seem a bit odd though from a marketing perspective. But from a technical point of view I guess it makes sense. That would leave space for the 22MP all-arounder (okay in every aspect, not king on any), not mess with the 1DX (best speed, best ISO), and the combo would be competitive with Nikon's offerings. The 22MP all-arounder would be a little bit cheaper than the D800, and the high res 4K camera would be more expensive, but probably cheaper than 1DX, unless its a pro body much similar to 1Ds. I doubt though that high res is going to be as expensive as 1Ds/D3x from now on.

If this is about true, I think most will be happy. Those that want high res (like me) are probably prepared to pay a bit more (lens cost is the major part anyway), as long as it does not feel like D800 is a much better deal. $4K would be ok. The masses want that 22MP all-arounder, and if it is a few bucks cheaper than the D800 and/or has a little bit more speed it will be ok. With good AF it will be an upgrade from the 5D mark 2.

What I'm less sure about is what 4K videographers are prepared to pay. Are they expecting 5D mark 2 pricing?


----------



## Neeneko (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



vuilang said:


> mrmarks said:
> 
> 
> > What's the point of a 45MP camera when its way above the resolving power of any Canon lens?
> ...



That was my question too. I see all sorts of comments about lenses not being able to support various sensors (including a discussion about using MF and LF lenses on DSLRs, with people claiming up and down that it ruins the pictures.. yet professionals are doing it every day...)...

Though personally I am rubbing my hands with glee since I have a 0.9f lens that most certainty can handle such a sensor and a fun use case where 45MP would actually be really useful.


----------



## bdeutsch (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



stefsan said:


> well_dunno said:
> 
> 
> > this rumor is taken with a very large grain of salt...
> ...


I'm with you ... water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink. All these salty 5dmiii (5dx) rumors are getting tiring.


Headshots NYC | NY Wedding Photos | Gotham Family Photos


----------



## Octavian (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Picsfor said:


> And then of course...
> 
> Canon could have deliberately leaked this rumour as a sounding board.
> 
> ...



Well at 3k Im out! 

Besides 5DMkii are available at 1,700 euro in some european countries.
So what price would that make a used one!

Hopefully 'they'll' read this!


----------



## alberto (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Hi there,

think there will be only one 5D X in the future maybe end of Feb. but don't think they will come up with a "good weather" camera like Nikon D-800 with high MP and workable Iso ) from 100-1000 ;-). The next Body after the 5D X maybe in autumn with other Specs.

Personally don't like the blown up Sensor design from the nikon D-800.

This will be the new 5D X, the new name for the MarkIII
specs like this ;-)
22MP maybe some more ????? but not to blown up 
61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
4.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)
1 Digic 5+ and maybe + Digic 4

price range 2500-2900 USD


----------



## mws (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I just want a FF with decent DR and ISO performance for under 3,000. Anything 15-22 MP would be fine with my needs.

I want better ISO performance more then anything, even 100 ISO on my 50D is just crap in my opinion. 

Interestingly absent on all of these rumors is what bodies will be weather sealed and how much weather sealing they will have. While not something I really need, it may be a easy way for Canon to break models into different segments.


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



cliffwang said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > Two cameras with different sensors or same sensors but different firmware?
> ...



+1: Sensors need to be optimized/ fine tuned. If by firmware you mean a crop... then both cannot be true FF sensors from a "framing" perspective. The latter won't be "wide" enough.


----------



## Orion (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Yesterday I went to a popular camera store, and the guy I always deal with said that the 5DmkIII will be out in April. He looked at me with a determined look, after I questioned it, and gave me a tiny smile . . . so I guess I have to believe him. He gave me that tiny smile after I asked him if this is insider stuff, so . . . .


----------



## astrocrab (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

why only 51200 ISO while 1DX has 204800? i can't believe their sensosr has 2 steps difference in sensivity.


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



dilbert said:


> Unfortunately I suspect that the "low price" and widespread popularity are what have driven up the 5D3 price more than anything else.



I second that. Why would Canon not use CR as a source of market intelligence? And if a bunch of us (me included) show enthusiasm at a $2700 price, it's natural that they would want to jack it up and get more for it. Ofcourse there are other factors too, perhaps we should be cognizant of what we say in public ...


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



astrocrab said:


> why only 51200 ISO while 1DX has 204800? i can't believe their sensosr has 2 steps difference in sensivity.



reading your forum name I understand you are doing astrophotography. I would like to have a camera like that, but maybe they just differentiate it by cutting the high ISO down to 51200. If these are very usable I guess that's plenty for me as a low light "amatog". I guess they can do this by firmware, right?


----------



## astrocrab (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



pedro said:


> by cutting the high ISO down to 51200.



how? by adding some noise to sensor output? if not then anyone can get on iso 51200 same results as on 204800 just using RAW.


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

thx astrocrab. now you know well how much I am in tech. so, I understand that sensors aren't the same as in film days. 100 ASA, 400 ASA...is that just a question of sensor tech design then? any link where can do an indepth read on that. would be very welcomed!


----------



## max (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Sign me up for a 5D3


----------



## gabriele (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I would totally go for the "standard" 5D Mark III, we don't need more megapixels, we need even better high ISO handling, better focusing and burst speed.


----------



## awinphoto (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

As for the video, I saw it around 4-5 months ago and posted it on CR just to find out it was some kids school project... Not badly done, but it's fake nevertheless. I wouldn't mind the specs at all, but yeah. Given the choice between the two, i'd hope there was more of a separating factor between the 3 and the x... Perhaps they could add some more features to the x and make it into it's own line all-together and justify a new price bracket of $4000? But for me I'd get the 3... Bring it on


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Musouka said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > I hope the MP monster has better IQ than the 7D aka 18MP crops, that would be disapointing to say the least
> ...


 Seems they are the same pixel width. G1x is more relevant since it is newer perhaps?


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



K-amps said:


> cliffwang said:
> 
> 
> > marekjoz said:
> ...



No, I didn't mean cropped. Rather one sensor 45MP with gapless subpixels producing 22MP raws...


----------



## thatcherk1 (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Maybe it's already been mentioned, but is there a chance that the 22MP camera is the "EOS Movie" DSLR style camera since 22mp would make sense for that. I guess that's more than 4k though. And then a 5Diii is the 46MP rumored camera.

Thoughts?


----------



## Woody (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Just a quick walk through history...

When Canon announced the 5D2 many years back, people claimed (i) they have no need for sensors with more than 12 MP (ii) lenses won't be able to support such a 22 MP sensor (iii) diffraction would kill the usefulness of such a sensor. The 5D2 turned out to be a massive success for Canon.

When there are rumors about Canon releasing a 22 MP FF camera after Nikon's 36 MP D800, people claim Canon is falling behind, and they are going to dump all their Canon stuff for the exciting D800.

When there are rumors about Canon releasing a 45 MP FF camera, people claim lenses won't be able to support the sensor. No more talks about diffraction. No more talks about the uselessness of sensors with more than 12 MP. After all, there's a 36 MP D800 is on the market.

How very interesting.


----------



## kirispupis (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

While it would be great if this rumor is true, there is one glaring mistake I see here.

If Canon continues with their current naming convention, then the 22 MP 5D should be called the 5DX and the 45 MP version the 5D3. In line with the "X" series (1Dx, G1X) all cameras have very good high ISO support.


----------



## DzPhotography (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



kirispupis said:


> While it would be great if this rumor is true, there is one glaring mistake I see here.
> 
> If Canon continues with their current naming convention, then the 22 MP 5D should be called the 5DX and the 45 MP version the 5D3. In line with the "X" series (1Dx, G1X) all cameras have very good high ISO support.


yes that would be a lot more logical


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I guess one of the first 22 MP rumors mentioned a 5Dx


----------



## mathino (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I've been looking around for some info about trade shows/conferences scheduled in 2012. So here is the list.

February
+ 9-12: CP Plus in Tokyo (Japan)
*+ 16-23: WPPI* (full conference) in Las Vegas (USA) - the trade show is February 20-22


March
+ 4-7: Focus on Imaging in Birmingham (UK)
*+ 6-10: CeBIT in Hannover* (Germany)
+ 24-26: Photoshop World in Washington DC (USA) - will IrfanView/MSPaint/GIMP filibuster the event? ;-)

April
*+ 14-19: NAB 2012 in Las Vegas* (USA)
+ 24-29: Photo & Imaging 2012 in Seoul (Korea)

May
*+ 24-27: PMA Australia in Melbourne* (Australia)
+ 25-27: ExpoSure (Henry's) in Mississauga (Canada)

June
+ 1-2: Cine Gear Expo in Los Angeles (USA)
+ 5-7: Computex Taipei in Taipei

August
*+ 31- Sept 5: IFA 2012 in Berlin* (Germany)

September
+ 6-11: IBC 2012 in Amsterdaaam (Holland)
*+ 18-23: Photokina (also in German)* in Cologne/Koln (Germany)
+ 19-21: DV Expo in Southern California (USA)

So I can see there are som more importatnt trade shows here. If you ask me I will bet on some of these to announcement:

1.) 16-23 of February - WPPI (Wedding & Portrait Photography - as far as I know many of wedding photogs are using 5D-s)
2.) 6-10 of March - CeBIT (I think here could be announced new Rebel)
3.) 14-19 of April - NAB (big show so maybe there)
4.) 18-23 of September - Photokina (big show, I expect some new stuff here).


----------



## digishooter (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Given Canon's recent spoon-feeding history, I'm guessing they will sometime this year release a very minor upgrade to the 5d2 as a 5d3, with improved AF and sensor performance and that's about it, selling for about $2500-2600.00.

Then I'm guessing it will be another year before they come out with a high Mpx camera, since that will be two releases of higher-end bodies in one year. They don't seem to be worried about what Nikon or Sony does.


----------



## thepancakeman (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



wellfedCanuck said:


> Positron said:
> 
> 
> > The one thing I've been failing to understand with all the 5D replacement spec rumors is why a high MP camera (be it a single model or one of two) would have anything near pro-grade AF. Normally AF is a huge differentiating factor between lines and would pump the cost up quite a bit, but any camera with high MP is clearly being marketed to a studio/landscape/macro crowd in which AF performance is far less important.
> ...



You and your aerial photography again...just buy a decent spy satelite already! ;D


----------



## awinphoto (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



thepancakeman said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > Positron said:
> ...



Lol.. I'm kind of interested at what point and purpose do you need the high MP for aerial photography? Are you shooting out the window of a flying airplane taking landscapse? Are you at an air show taking pictures of planes flying or taking photos at or near an airport of airliners landing and taking off? Are you trying to print banner ads? Shooting from the ground and trying to get planes in the air i suppose is like bird photography, and cropping could help. I do commercial aviation photography as part of my business target audience, as well as architecture and such, but either shooting glamour shots of the plane on the ground, interior glamour shots (like confined architecture shots) and the occasional air show but the air show, to me, is more for fun and less business.


----------



## DzPhotography (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



mathino said:


> I've been looking around for some info about trade shows/conferences scheduled in 2012. So here is the list.
> 
> February
> + 9-12: CP Plus in Tokyo (Japan)
> ...


Nice list


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

5D whatever wise... I'd put my five cents on one of the Vegas events. And if not, let's book at the hilton and attend the Elvis Presley show, or let's stroll over to the Sand's and see Sinatra do come fly with me... To see them perform again is almost more likely than a new Canon body before Photokina 8) :


----------



## mathino (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



DzPhotography said:


> mathino said:
> 
> 
> > I've been looking around for some info about trade shows/conferences scheduled in 2012. So here is the list.
> ...



Took quiet a while to find it but it gives us at least some clue when we can expect something. Hope for _whatever-it-wil-be-called-22 mpx-good high ISO-good AF-camera_ before summer ! It will also burst Canon sales into very high level. And ofc some lenses would be welcomed (at leaste updated 50 f/1.4 USM).


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I^m in...and I will take a stunning ISO 25600 pic of Presley at full blast !!!


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



astrocrab said:


> why only 51200 ISO while 1DX has 204800? i can't believe their sensosr has 2 steps difference in sensivity.



Why not. ISO limits are set by firmware. Photosamples are jpeg's, which implies Dual Digic magic fairy dust... As long as the RAW noise levels are on par, we should be ecstatic!


----------



## mathino (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



pedro said:


> 5D whatever wise... I'd put my five cents on one of the Vegas events. And if not, let's book at the hilton and attend the Elvis Presley show, or let's stroll over to the Sand's and see Sinatra do come fly with me... To see them perform again is almost more likely than a new Canon body before Photokina 8) :



I think that Vegas shows are quiet possible.
1.) First is for wedding & portrait photogs - 5D Mark III (with specs as mentioned) is camera that will be used buy those photogs
2.) Second is NAB - it is a big show and there could be 5D Mark III announced too. Also RED is there listed ad far as I remeber. So basicly I am thinking of this show due to some new video features on new body.

...and if they announce 5D Mark III (with those specs) before summer then some of photogs of Olympics _may_ buy them as new backup bodies. Just my thoughts.

I bet my 2 cents on 40+ mpx body on Photokina or even later.


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



marekjoz said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > cliffwang said:
> ...



That would be nice, kind of like they do with jpegs... but I fear converting RAW will yield in loss of data since it would need to be converted anyway and rendered, thus.... wont really be RAW anymore... right?


----------



## moreorless (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



yunusoglu said:


> Splitting a line while merging another (1D series) doesn't seem very logical to me.
> I'm sure we'll soon see 2 new DSLRs from Canon but I doubt they'll belong to the same line...



I don't really view the 1DX as "merging" a lineup but rather as the 1D line shifting to FF now that Canon has the tech to do so and keep 10+ fps and the 1Ds line being killed off.

The 1Ds mk3 seemed to me to be a camera that didnt fully know what its market was, alot of studio/landscape users felt they didnt need its double grip, fast AF or reasonable FPS and bought 5D mk2's instead. If this 5DX were to happen then it could be targeted much more specifically at those users giving ultra high resolution, 100% viewfinder, widely spaced AF that was accurate more than fast, single grip body etc.


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*





K-amps said:


> astrocrab said:
> 
> 
> > why only 51200 ISO while 1DX has 204800? i can't believe their sensosr has 2 steps difference in sensivity.
> ...



Then I wasn't that wrong with my guess. 

So, given this fact there are some additional technical questions: 

*Can a sensor get hacked then to yield more ISO range?*
*Let's say if Canon implements a derivate of the 1Dx sensor into the new whatever 5D (as posted at NL today) and lock it to 51200?*
The other question:
*Are sensors "programmed" to a certain ISO range or are they kind of "neutral"?*

Thanks for helping a non-tech.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



pedro said:


> Are sensors "programmed" to a certain ISO range or are they kind of "neutral"?



A sensor has a given senstivity, just one sensitivity, e.g. ISO 100. What is specified as the 'native' ISO range (100-51200 for the 1D X) is achieved by on-sensor amplifiers, meaning it's an analog gain. The expanded ISO range - L, H1, and H2 - are achieved by digital amplification (or reduction for ISO 50) of the analog signal, after analog-to-digital conversion.


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

@neuro: thx a lot!


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



alexng0302 said:


> For all of you, I am not sure if this is a correct source or not, but Taiwanese Photographer Kevin Wang, who was lucky enough to have the chance to test the 5Dmk3, just posted a video of the 5dmk3 commercial video on his facebook, it seems that the specs are:
> 
> 28.1 megapixel, 8.2fps continuious shooting mode, iso range 50-12800 (I assume this is including h1&h2), digic 5 processor, 45 cross typed af points and similar body design with the mk2 but with slight adjustment ergonomically. ~
> 
> Anyone got any info on that one?? please correct me if i am wrong~



Those specs would be pretty much my 100% ideal, sounds awesome, but sadly there is no way he would have and post the 5D3 commercial he'd have been sued to bankruptcy by now. I didn't check the link but there have been lots of fake 5D3 commercials going around.
And I don't see Canon going 8.2fps if they get it up to 28MP, I think they'd stop at 6.3fps of the 50D to as to not threaten the 1DX quite that much and because a 6fps FF mirror/shutter probably would cost them some real degree less money to produce than an 8fps one.

28MP, 6fps, 1D4 AF, something like that would be reasonable IMO, and awesome, they could produce that in their sleep but it's a little hard to have full faith with the way they've been acting the last half decade plus. A large part of me thinks it might be specs very much like 28MP,6fps,better than 7D AF, for certain reasons, and I'd almost be sure but CR/NL keep coming out with rumors anything BUT that so I don't know anymore.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



well_dunno said:


> this rumor is taken with a very large grain of salt...



I think this rumor makes the Dead Sea look fresh.


----------



## mathino (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> well_dunno said:
> 
> 
> > this rumor is taken with a very large grain of salt...
> ...



   that was awsome


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



pedro said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > astrocrab said:
> ...



Pedro let me try :

A) Don't know about sensors being hacked; but certainly the system can be "hacked" for example, I have an older Rebel XT with a nominal max ISO setting of 1600. There are hacks out there that let you set it at 3200. These hacks do not compensate for added noise nor do they increase the NR or Sensor performance, but allow you to shoot at 3200 (which results in more noise), but is possible. 

B) Yes; they can lock allowable ISO settings at any lower level they want. There could be an upper limit to which the analog amplifiers will saturate, but I suspect the image will be very useless before the chip op-amps saturate i.e. the image is overrun with distortion + Noise. Manufacturers do this to differentiate products routinely.

B2) Sensors have the ability to collect light / photons. They collect Chroma based on the Bayer sensor, they are as neutral as the Bayer filter allows. On the other hand, since light is collected over time, the system can use a smaller "time slot" (high ISO) and lock the signal, amplify it based on the small sample of data it has collected. The higher the ISO, the smaller the sample of data collected that can be reconstructed as an image. Digital noise and artifacts are by-products of this reconstruction.

If you look at the sensor Die, there is a lot of surface area taken up by electronics not just photo diodes (light collectors) . The extra electronics reduces the efficiency of collection of light. Since the ratio of surfaces of the photodiodes to "extra electronics" goes up with sensor size, so does it's ability to collect more light cleanly. Hence larger sensors have lesser noise. 

Sony has just patented such a sensor design, it purports a 20% increased surface area for the actual photo diodes. Seems very promising, but yet to be tested in real life.

Hope this helps.


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



K-amps said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...



I think yes and no   Yes - raw is raw and that's all. No - the way each pixel's value is calculated based on subpixels (r,g,b) makes ithe whole process all not so pure from the very beginning.
K-amps, look - if you would have 45MP sensor, you have 8216x5477. If you have 20MP, you have 5477x3651. 8216/5477 = 3/2 and 5477/3651=3/2. It means, that you can have 20MP image by getting each 2 pixels from 3 others (on the edge, more complicated in the middle but also simple). Such an accurate conversion would not seriously influence the image quality, or would it?


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Is anyone else getting somewhat worried that one guy who has seen and held the new 5D3 keeps saying stuff like: "The marketing mistakes Canon makes repeatedly lately is an understimation of the pace of innovation needed to keep a strong position in the market. The 5D mk II successor, still not announced, will be a disappointment to many."

:'(

Honestly I don't see how they could be THAT out of touch, they have to know that D700 successor would solve the missing MP and video issues and that they can't just sit around and give us some minor little increment. And really they should be trying to dominate not merely just barely keep pace. They do have the tech, better than Nikon can come up with in most if not all cases, but they just don't seem to care to put it into production. But maybe they are that out of touch. They just saw high 5D2 sales and didn't get the how and why and how things are changing. They still refuse to even outline the histogram box so you can see it when outdoors under the sun because that would not be the Canon way or some such nonsense. They couldn't even foresee that people would want manual control for video in the 5D2 and it took major Hollywood players leaning on them for months to get them to see the light. Hopefully there really is not some deeper reason behind the President of Canon just having resigned.

Anyway, I still find it hard to believe they would dare be so out of touch as to mess up the 5D3 so I will just assume, until proven otherwise, that it will be cool and fantastic  and that the guy who saw it was just thinking about other sorts of things being lacking that many of us won't care about too much.


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Is anyone else getting somewhat worried that one guy who has seen and held the new 5D3 keeps saying stuff like: "The marketing mistakes Canon makes repeatedly lately is an understimation of the pace of innovation needed to keep a strong position in the market. The 5D mk II successor, still not announced, will be a disappointment to many."
> 
> :'(
> 
> ...



Who is this "guy" you keep referring to Lens?


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



marekjoz said:


> I think yes and no   Yes - raw is raw and that's all. No - the way each pixel's value is calculated based on subpixels (r,g,b) makes ithe whole process all not so pure from the very beginning.
> K-amps, look - if you would have 45MP sensor, you have 8216x5477. If you have 20MP, you have 5477x3651. 8216/5477 = 3/2 and 5477/3651=3/2. It means, that you can have 20MP image by getting each 2 pixels from 3 others (on the edge, more complicated in the middle but also simple). Such an accurate conversion would not seriously influence the image quality, or would it?



I will give you that... kind of like sRAW ...


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



K-amps said:


> Who is this "guy" you keep referring to Lens?



eosfun

Sometimes he does have a different take on things so hopefully what he finds a bit old hat will be cool to us. I hope.
It is a little worrisome though that he seems to be trying to put a bit of a damper on expectations though. I guess we will see soon enough, perhaps.


----------



## DzPhotography (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Who is this "guy" you keep referring to Lens?
> ...


never heard of him ???


----------



## K-amps (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Who is this "guy" you keep referring to Lens?
> ...



No such member on CR... ???


----------



## pedro (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



K-amps said:


> pedro said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...


k-amps: yes it did. getting a better idea now! thx.


----------



## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



pedro said:


> 5D whatever wise... I'd put my five cents on one of the Vegas events. And if not, let's book at the hilton and attend the Elvis Presley show, or let's stroll over to the Sand's and see Sinatra do come fly with me... To see them perform again is almost more likely than a new Canon body before Photokina 8) :



Well said, laddie. That's the spirit!


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



K-amps said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...



I don't know if he posts here, if he does, he posts under something else. He is in the FM forums though.


----------



## kenraw (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Gcon said:


> The rumor sounds pretty credible to me. Canon always want to keep up with Nikon and vice versa and I can't imagine they would give the megapixel crown to Nikon after having it for so long (D3x excluded on price
> 
> That 45 megapixel though - if you divide by 1.6^2 you get 17.57MP which is a tad less than 18MP which is what you get on the 7D. Thus the pixel density would be very similar to the 7D - just a bit under. I actually dislike the 7D image quality with a passion as I bought one and shot with plenty of L glass and the noise is horrible even at base ISO100 compared to my 5DMarkII. Other people like the 7D and if you're one of them then I'm happy for you. For me though I'm not touching a camera with that kind of pixel density with a 40-foot pole. If I ever want 40MP I'll buy a Pentax 645D and give those megapixels the space they really need. I don't want to spend my days in Lightroom and Photoshop adjusting the noise reduction sliders (landscape) or using blur tools to soften bokeh areas (portrait).
> 
> ...



Im with you on this one, if they used a FF sensor with 45mp giving the same pixel density as the 7D it's a disatster waiting to happen if the resulting IQ suffers anything like the 7D's does.

It will be fine for those who like to brag about mp or use a tripod but for handheld events etc it will be shite!


----------



## scokar (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> ...Honestly I don't see how they could be THAT out of touch, they have to know that D700 successor would solve the missing MP and video issues and that they can't just sit around and give us some minor little increment.
> ...



Canon has a history of not producing cameras that will 'eat their lunch'. they let others do that because, so far and until recently, others have only been nibbling.

Which makes it a company culture almost.



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> ...Hopefully there really is not some deeper reason behind the President of Canon just having resigned...



Canon is not a camera company. don't anyone forget. they are a flipping huge conglomerate with many markets to satisfy and a whole lot of internal politics as well.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



> why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..
> 
> Images would take up more space on memory cards, resulting in more memory card changes during a shoot. Images would take more time to download, then time spent downsampling and converting to a new file and erasing the original. Time is money...



Raw versus sRaw - This goes beyond just memory cards. How many harddrives can you afford if only shooting full sized Raw?

SRaw is fine for many purposes. I mean really, how many weddings or portrait shoots result in people wanting larger than a 20x30 print? Generally for non-art shoots, I go with sRaw on my 7D - and sometimes when i do shoot art i forget to switch back to full size RAW. I've done 20x30 prints from sRaw files, and they look pretty damn good!


http://chuckalaimo.com/


----------



## thepancakeman (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Chuck Alaimo said:


> > why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..
> >
> > Images would take up more space on memory cards, resulting in more memory card changes during a shoot. Images would take more time to download, then time spent downsampling and converting to a new file and erasing the original. Time is money...
> 
> ...



I suspect that I take/keep as many pictures as most, and with the RAW file from a 7D, a $100 3TB drive that stores roughly 167,000 images will last me for awhile. And the $100 is pretty insignificant in terms of photography expenses.


----------



## Woody (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Is anyone else getting somewhat worried that one guy who has seen and held the new 5D3 keeps saying stuff like: "The marketing mistakes Canon makes repeatedly lately is an understimation of the pace of innovation needed to keep a strong position in the market. The 5D mk II successor, still not announced, will be a disappointment to many."
> 
> :'(



EOSFun thinks the future lies in integration of various electronic devices, hence, the lack of such integration is a disappointment to him. He also hopes to see a breakthrough product from Canon but a 20 to 45 MP, 6 to 8 fps, 19 to 61 AF pt FF camera is not considered one. Does not matter if that is what the masses want. Does not matter whether the camera sells by boatloads or not. 

Looking at the number of DSLRs sold by Nikon and Canon in 2011 despite the onslaught of competition, I must say their marketing departments clearly know what they are doing.


----------



## Orangutan (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



scokar said:


> Canon has a history of not producing cameras that will 'eat their lunch'...Which makes it a company culture almost.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Canon is not a camera company. don't anyone forget. they are a flipping huge conglomerate with many markets to satisfy and a whole lot of internal politics as well.




A company in the lead will not, in almost any circumstance, put their best tech on the market until the competition forces them to do so. Let's say we're on Generation N technology now; if Canon jumps straight to Generation (N+3) for its next pro camera, there are two problems:

1. They miss out on the opportunity to sell Generations (N+1) and (N+2), and lose the profits therefrom.
2. They lose their R&D incremental investments in those intermediate generations (yes, some of that goes into later generations, but some does not)


In other words, Canon will not sell sensors with 15-stop DR in their SLR's until someone else starts selling a lot of sensors with 14.8 stops of DR. Just ain't gonna happen. It's a business, nothing else. This is why we should all be cheering the D4 and D800: it will force Canon's hand.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



scokar said:


> Canon has a history of not producing cameras that will 'eat their lunch'. they let others do that because, so far and until recently, others have only been nibbling.
> 
> Which makes it a company culture almost.



That can eventually prove dangerous for a company though, seen that many times before.



> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > ...Hopefully there really is not some deeper reason behind the President of Canon just having resigned...
> ...



Yeah I know, it's only a VERRRRRRRRRY small chance that it had anything to do with this at all.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



> Quote from: Chuck Alaimo on Today at 07:17:51 AM
> Quote
> why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..
> 
> ...



Just cause you can do a thing doesn't mean you have to or should! I personally like the sRAW option. I use it quite a bit. Plus, combined cost. I currently have one 16 gig, and two 8 gig CF cards - they ain't cheap (CF cards can be more pricey than a harddrive!) at sRAW, you can fit triple the amount of shots per card. Add in the extra storage cost to shoot everything in full RAW, sorry its just too much! Again, how many people are buying giant sized prints (40x60 and up) from things like events and weddings? sRAW is fine for prints 20x30 and lower...just saying...


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Chuck Alaimo said:


> > Quote from: Chuck Alaimo on Today at 07:17:51 AM
> > Quote
> > why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..
> >
> ...



Image manipulation in postproduction costs quality. The more pixels the better final result. Smaller images maipulated in postproduction may lead to loosing details. Picture manipulation algorithms don't work on separate pixels only but rather also consider it's surrounding.


----------



## Axilrod (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

So if this were the case, they would be releasing 2 new 5D's AND the Cinema DSLR? And supposedly the 7DII and more all in the same year? It sounds like this "tip" was sent by someone that wasn't happy with the supposed 22MP 5DIII specs and is desperately trying to manifest the camera of his dreams. 

It doesn't make sense to cannibalize the Cinema DSLR sales with a 5DX


----------



## adamfilip (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Chuck Alaimo said:


> SRaw is fine for many purposes. I mean really, how many weddings or portrait shoots result in people wanting larger than a 20x30 print? Generally for non-art shoots, I go with sRaw on my 7D - and sometimes when i do shoot art i forget to switch back to full size RAW. I've done 20x30 prints from sRaw files, and they look pretty damn good!



Not many will want a 20x30 but if you shoot sRAW and someone does want it.. or even larger.. you would wish that you had indeed shot RAW instead.. why limit yourself.. storage is cheap. and you only get 1 chance to get it right.


----------



## briansquibb (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Axilrod said:


> So if this were the case, they would be releasing 2 new 5D's AND the Cinema DSLR? And supposedly the 7DII and more all in the same year? It sounds like this "tip" was sent by someone that wasn't happy with the supposed 22MP 5DIII specs and is desperately trying to manifest the camera of his dreams.
> 
> It doesn't make sense to cannibalize the Cinema DSLR sales with a 5DX



I agree - but is the the 7DII which is the extra one? I am happy to wait and see 

A minor update to the current 5DII sensor would give the video user the 2K by moving to 22mp+. It would be nice that when they update the sensor to improve high iso. I find that at iso 3200 it is good and 6400 it is bad, very abrupt, unlike the 1D4 where it is a more gradual tail off


----------



## lol (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



kenraw said:


> Im with you on this one, if they used a FF sensor with 45mp giving the same pixel density as the 7D it's a disatster waiting to happen if the resulting IQ suffers anything like the 7D's does.
> 
> It will be fine for those who like to brag about mp or use a tripod but for handheld events etc it will be S___e!


Be realistic, if the 7D's sensor was so horrific, then pretty much all of Canon's current APS-C bodies using the same sensor would be dead.

I know, different people have a different noise threshold, but unless you're submitting to the extremely noise-phobic stock agencies or are a terminal pixel peeper, it is really insignificant. Personally up to ISO800 on the 7D the noise is insignificant, and I find it usable to 6400 easily. If you ignore DoF equivalence considerations, then like for like settings with a 45/46MP full frame would have over a stop advantage just from sensor size anyway.

Further bear in mind the 7D sensor is I think getting on for some two and a half years old. Any new sensor should have moved on since then.

There will be many people who don't need a high MP model, or even know what to do with one, but they don't need to get it. In the same way, the 1D X may be a great camera, but it isn't suited for my needs. For those that do know why they want a high MP model, this rumoured X model is spot on. The 5D2 would be in the bin* the second I got one.

*Ok, I wouldn't really bin it, but sticking it on ebay is close enough!


----------



## zazamiii (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Hi,

I was on the phone today with Canon India in New Delhi.
They affirmed me that the canon 5D Mark III would be announced in March and in the market in April.

I invite you to call in your respective countries to try confirmed this info.

*no infos abt a split in the line...


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



zazamiii said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was on the phone today with Canon India in New Delhi.
> They affirmed me that the canon 5D Mark III would be announced in March and in the market in April.
> ...



It might be. We read (www.techradar.com) "The company hopes to sell *9.2 million* interchangeable lens cameras and 22 million compact cameras in the next 12 months, up from *7.2 million* and 18.2 million respectively." If they want to sell so many DSLR, then I'm sure they don't hope make these numbers only on entry level, 1dx, 7d and 5d2. If they want achieve it, better them hurry up a bit or the next president will resign and stock price falls again.
What are Canon's production capabilities BTW? The sales plans must be consistent to production plans at least. I assume that if they would announce next cash cow too late, they simply would not be able to produce so many of them. We read somewhere else (bernama.com): 'Nikon Sendai to produce 30,000 D800 and 5,000 D4 cameras per month". It makes Nikon to produce 350k those Nikons to the end of the year. So I'm interested, assuming similar production capabilities - how is Canon to achieve it without very fast announcement? We read also (http://www.netxt.com/canon-plans-to-introduce-micro-single-camera-slr-production-capacity-of-10-million-units/): "Canon Business Department head ago Tian Zhengye (Masaya Maeda) (...) before said the company expanding in Taiwan factory capacity allowing it to DSLR production capacity reaches 10 million it." Ok. if so, then they are able to produce but when do they start to achieve it? In September? Then too late....


----------



## mathino (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



zazamiii said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was on the phone today with Canon India in New Delhi.
> They affirmed me that the canon 5D Mark III would be announced in March and in the market in April.
> ...



As I posted before, there are some shows/exhibitions in March

March
+ 4-7: Focus on Imaging in Birmingham (UK)
+ 6-10: CeBIT in Hannover (Germany)
+ 24-26: Photoshop World in Washington DC (USA) 

*IF* there will be some announcement I would bet on CeBIT. I've checked the first one, takes place in UK and there is only Canon UK as listed. Under CeBIT there is Canon Deutschland and Canon Europe - so show with higher importance.

http://www.cebit.de/en/List-Exhibitors?group=c
http://www.focus-on-imaging.co.uk/exhibitors.htm

But if you ask me, I think it is more plausible to see new FF camera on those Vegas events:
February
+ 16-23: WPPI (Wedding & portrait photography - full conference) in Las Vegas (USA)
April
+ 14-19: NAB 2012 in Las Vegas (USA)


----------



## image2paint (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Shows shows shows... that's just where they would showcase the 5d iii mathino, but nice list ! 

Nikon announced the D800 at locations all over the globe on the same day. I like the idea of the 5d iii just being announced worldwide 28th of February in the same manor as Nikon did and in stores april


----------



## Picsfor (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I've seen the light.

I'm gonna flog all my gear and get an iPhone! :


----------



## goodmane (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

So long as at least one of them has a built in flash


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## mathino (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



image2paint said:


> Shows shows shows... that's just where they would showcase the 5d iii mathino, but nice list !
> 
> Nikon announced the D800 at locations all over the globe on the same day. I like the idea of the 5d iii just being announced worldwide 28th of February in the same manor as Nikon did and in stores april



I know that shows are only to showcase new stuff to public but it gives a little info/clue about possible annoucement times  That's just what I think 

They can put an announcement on 28th of Febrary and show this new body on CeBIT or another show to public. But this date is only a rumor for now. We have to wait till (let's say) 21st of February, maybe there will be some leak or good source of info.

As opposite to Nikon we have _no credible_ info about specs or something - Nikon guys had 90 % of specs out long time before official announcement. We gonna be surprised (time would tell if it will be exicitement or dissapointment) ! I'm betting on excitement, Canon can't afford to release something half-made/half-tested - that's why we are waiting so long 

I'm also eagerly waiting for any possible info about new 5D (or whatever it will be) as I want to upgrade to FF. So keep the news comming !


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 11, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I just hope they up the DR by two to three stops. They need that badly at low ISO.


----------



## DarkKnightNine (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I can say after seeing the D800 in Yokohama (at CP+) yesterday, the rumors of the 45MP 5DX had better be true. Nikon has a clear winner on their hands from what I can tell after playing with the camera. As a mainly studio photographer, the D800 really appealed to me. The images I shot with it were nothing short of amazing! I was blown away by the detail I saw on the camera's LCD, so I can imagine how great they would look once I got them into Aperture or Lightroom. I really hoping Canon answers back with this 45MP beast. 2012 is going to be an interesting year for photographers for sure. I was considering upgrading to a Leica S2, but if Canon and Nikon can produce similar or better image quality in a camera priced at a fourth the cost, Leica just lost their entire S2 market. 


On another note, I also had the opportunity to play with the Canon 1DX, but since it's off topic here, I will post my thoughts about it on another forum.


----------



## simonxu11 (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



DarkKnightNine said:


> I can say after seeing the D800 in Yokohama (at CP+) yesterday, the rumors of the 45MP 5DX had better be true. Nikon has a clear winner on their hands from what I can tell after playing with the camera. As a mainly studio photographer, the D800 really appealed to me. The images I shot with it were nothing short of amazing! I was blown away by the detail I saw on the camera's LCD, so I can imagine how great they would look once I got them into Aperture or Lightroom. I really hoping Canon answers back with this 45MP beast. 2012 is going to be an interesting year for photographers for sure. I was considering upgrading to a Leica S2, but if Canon and Nikon can produce similar or better image quality in a camera priced at a fourth the cost, Leica just lost their entire S2 market.
> 
> 
> On another note, I also had the opportunity to play with the Canon 1DX, but since it's off topic here, I will post my thoughts about it on another forum.



I don't like the idea of a 45MP beast to be honest. The images are from D800 do look superb, but I can see a lot of potential buyers are worry about the file size, the storage, the processing time etc. If Canon put a 45mp on the market, these problems can become more serious. As a result, those buyers will go toward to D800 straight away, because the D800 suddenly becomes a more balanced camera for them. And I don't think the high ISO level of a 45MP camera can match the D800.

If Canon are into high MP beast, I hope they can release a similar MP as the D800, let the IQ decides which one is better.

BTW, Lecica has a totally different market.


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## BDD (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I don't see a problem with Canon putting out a 45MP 5D (5DX)...............as long as they ALSO give us the 5D3 (22MP/high ISO/high DR). That there will be a split. 

Hopefully we'll find out soon what Canon is planning to do. So far they haven't leaked any details like Nikon did prior to the release of their D800. We should know more come the end of this month which is the rumored time frame for the 5DX/5D3 announcement.


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## D_Rochat (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I don't see how file size is an issue here. You can get TB drives relatively cheap now and they will only continue to drop in price.


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## BDD (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

The only "problem", more an inconvenience than anything else, would be the frequent swapping of memory cards when you're in the field. Depending on how many shots you typically take. Whether you're a hobbyist or working photographer.

I think high MP cameras are really suited for studio photographers where big file size and detail is required. As has been mentioned already over and over. The rest of us (hobbyists) should be more than happy with a 5D3. Which isn't to say working photogs won't buy the 5D3 too. The rest of us simply do not need 45MP (or the 36MP from a D800).

I still find it interesting the direction Nikon has taken. From pushing low MP/large pixels to putting out a 36MP D800. 

Will Canon really put out 2 versions of the 5D?


----------



## lol (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.

Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!

As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?


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## briansquibb (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



lol said:


> A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.
> 
> Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!
> 
> As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?



Well stated


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



lol said:


> A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.
> 
> Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!
> 
> As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?



Making backups though still takes forever. Backup up 3GB after 2GB after 2GB drives and so on is a pain, for now. But that said, bring it on, if people want tons of MP, let them have it.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



D_Rochat said:


> I don't see how file size is an issue here. You can get TB drives relatively cheap now and they will only continue to drop in price.



Once they recover from the floods and backlog, for this year they;ve only gone way up, but true enough it's just a temporary bump.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



D_Rochat said:


> I don't see how file size is an issue here. You can get TB drives relatively cheap now and they will only continue to drop in price.



It is unless you are privately wealthy/with deep pockets/or pulling in tons of money. It's like a chain of dominoes, f all of a sudden you triple the file size, its not just about after the shoot storage, you then have to triple the amount of CF cards you have. Then there's workflow, with larger sized files comes the need for greater processor power. I do a lot of HDR and panoramic stitching, and my PC already has some issues stitching panoramic (granted, that's when I'm trying to stitch 20+ shots). Either way, add it all up, ok, so now i need new harddrives, CF cards, and potentially a new computer to process it...$100 here, $300 there, $1500+ there, it adds up. I think one of the biggest flaws that I have heard about the D800 is that there's only 1 Raw option, and it puts out a gigantic file (around 75Mb per image????) - or 7360 x 4912 - how many wedding customers or portrait customers are looking for prints that are literally bigger than the walls of the houses they live in? 

I can see a camera like the D800 being an amazing thing to have if i was privately wealthy. It would be the thing I'd use to shoot stuff for fine art, to print giant and sell for a giant price tag. But, for most use (portraits, events, weddings), the file size of that beast would make it be the secondary cam, the one you pull out for the the ceremony, for the kiss and the formal portraits, then put the beast away and use something with a more manageble file size (i mean really, people will want prints in an album from a reception, but with the exception of the cake and dances, would they really want reception shots printed larger than 8x12? Note, as I say that, to warrent 7360 x 4912 resolution, you have to be working for someone that not only wants prints larger than 40x60, but people that will cut it apart with a microscope to tell the difference. 

I think, the 5dx has the option to create sRaw, mRaw and RAW, then that right there makes it the better camera.

http://chuckalaimo.com/


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



lol said:


> A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.
> 
> Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!
> 
> As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?



It's not a matter of of too cheap to handle it - its more the matter of being able to handle it all the time, every shot, no option to scale it down without shooting to jpeg which means you loose a lot of options in post process. As someone in their second year as a tog, I made very little money the first year, and close to 14k the second, i hope to double that this year and be able to afford full frame but - lets add it up - if 75 MB is the only option, to handle, manage and process that your looking at multiple upgrades

$3000 for body
$2000 + to upgrade computer
$400 on hardrives
$400 on CF cards

No thank you (while saying that ---if i could do that....lol.... I would!!!!). So yeah, give me size options!

Oh, and lets also add to the mix glass. Many are already stating that a 30+ MP body outclasses even the best glass on the market. Canon has already put out their new beast of a 24-70 (given the specs and the price, I do believe that the only way you'll get the most out of that is on a 30+ MP body), so to really get the full benefit of all those MP's, time to buy new glass!


----------



## stefsan (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



lol said:


> A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.
> 
> Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!



If storage were the only concern, you would probably be right. But if you want to post process your 45 MP pics you also need the processing power to get the job done within reasonable time. A lot of people would have to add a new computer to the shopping list… not to mention the new glass you probably would need as well. :-[


----------



## lol (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

In general people moving or already shooting full frame have decent enough lenses already. And again, 45MP full frame is similar in density to the 18MP crop, and there is no major problem feeding that. Still, assuming both rumoured models eventually come out, people can pick and choose whatever suits them. 45MP certainly wont be for everyone, but it is certainly interesting to more than a few.


----------



## briansquibb (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Chuck Alaimo said:


> $3000 for body
> $2000 + to upgrade computer
> $400 on hardrives
> $400 on CF cards



wow! a lot of big assumptions being made here and based on those assumptions some very big dollar upgrades

Just bought two external 2Tb drives (Samsung) for equiv $300. As I rigorously go through and delete the not so good photos I dont want to keep I reckon I could get well over 2 years worth of 45gb files on them (sync'd)

I couldn't reckon on a new computer - mine is a 4 year Core 2 Duo that still does the job, and even if does take longer on each file, as a hobbyist that means I wont have to rush the cup of tea  I did 550 file adjustments in less than 2 minutes in DPP.

If DxO or something simillar is being used it then perhaps a faster workflow would benefit.

Bring on the best IQ and the biggest mp, providing it is an improvement I will upgrade when it is convenient


----------



## AUGS (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



briansquibb said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > $3000 for body
> ...



For me at least, there may be a reduction in processing. As a landscape photographer, the larger MPix _may_ mean less pre-processing, photo-stitching, post processing to get the image size I'd like to print (I print up to 36inches wide at the moment). Also, photo-stitching only really works when there aren't moving elements in the image (I do seascapes, so this can be an issue), so the rumoured 46mpix could be a one-shot solution for me. And coming from a film/transparency perspective, the cost of medium format film ($15-20) and processing ($15-20) for 6x17 images, and their subsequent scanning (anywhere from $50-90 per frame) is become far too restrictive (ignoring the film supply may dry up). These scanned files can easily exceed 500MB.

So for me personally, these 2 new offerings hit the mark. Whatever the final products are, we will get something truly fantastic, and something I can work with either way.


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## moreorless (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Tuggen said:


> The rumor doesn't make sense.
> Why should the ISO range between the III and X be different? *The ISO performace will be the same if the same technology is used since basic physics tells us that the pixle size has neglectable impact at high ISO performance.*Why should the ISO range for the X version be the same as for 7D? The sensor is more than twice as large and will have more than 1 stop better ISO performace than 7D, and be better than 5Dmk2, even with no improvements what so ever. Will Canon release a new DSLR with a sensor that is worse that something they made already several year ago?
> 
> This rumor is obvioiusly not the truth.



Because this is clearly not the case.


----------



## DarkKnightNine (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



lol said:


> A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.
> 
> Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!
> 
> As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?




I agree. Most hobbyist talk about not needing a higher MP 5DIII but in my opinion most hobbits don't really need a 5DIII. I hate the fact that hobbyist feel that professional camera bodies should be dumbed down to fit their needs. If you truly are just a hobbyist or Prosumer, the 7D or 60D is probably where you should be anyways. Most professionals need detail and IQ to crop images as needed. That means more MP and more disk space. As we get paid to provide clients with the best images possible, that's a necessary investment.


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## Maui5150 (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Chuck Alaimo said:


> lol said:
> 
> 
> > A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.
> ...



You must be on a Mac. Only costs me about $200 - $400 every couple of years to more than double the speed of my PC and all depends if I have to upgrade my motherboard as well as the CPU. 

I can build an 8-Core 3.3 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, system with decent Graphics Card, case and Power Supply for under $800.

Now if you are throwing on a 30" monitor that handles 1 Billion colors, then I can see an extra $1200 to $2K, but outside of that, most people in the "PC world" can do seriously major upgrades for under $500


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## sjprg (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I agree with Maui5150. Updateing a PC is relatively inexpensive. I did splurge this year and add an Nvidia 2000D Quadro card to my 3 year old I-920, 12 GB system. This system now batch processes 1DS3 CR2 files in under 2 seconds each. My MBP is now relagated to travel email and skype and my Driod is rapidly replaceing that.

DXO and PS really like using the CPL capability of the Quadro card, probably the best money I've spent on speedup in a long time. 
I'm really looking forward to the Canon 45 MP if it materalizes. If not I'm off to the Nikon D800E.


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## Maui5150 (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



sjprg said:


> I agree with Maui5150. Updateing a PC is relatively inexpensive. I did splurge this year and add an Nvidia 2000D Quadro card to my 3 year old I-920, 12 GB system. This system now batch processes 1DS3 CR2 files in under 2 seconds each. My MBP is now relagated to travel email and skype and my Driod is rapidly replaceing that.
> 
> DXO and PS really like using the CPL capability of the Quadro card, probably the best money I've spent on speedup in a long time.
> I'm really looking forward to the Canon 45 MP if it materalizes. If not I'm off to the Nikon D800E.



Well the Quadro is definitely a powerhouse of a card. I am getting excited for the new PS. I don't have issues with Liquidfy layers as it is, but seeing some of the performance gains they have made, it looks much improved. 

Main reasons I have built my own PCs for close to the last 15 years:
-- Fairly easy to do
-- Pick and chose best equipment
-- Easier upgrading. 
-- Improved access to technology. 

Sort of like why I like MacGururs for external enclosures : They are designed to be upgradeable, so as USB 4.0 or what ever else comes out, they give you the ability to change out the controller and other components and still use hardware, that for the most part does not need discarding.


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## Neeneko (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Maui5150 said:


> You must be on a Mac. Only costs me about $200 - $400 every couple of years to more than double the speed of my PC and all depends if I have to upgrade my motherboard as well as the CPU.
> 
> I can build an 8-Core 3.3 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, system with decent Graphics Card, case and Power Supply for under $800.
> 
> Now if you are throwing on a 30" monitor that handles 1 Billion colors, then I can see an extra $1200 to $2K, but outside of that, most people in the "PC world" can do seriously major upgrades for under $500



Most people in the "Mac World" can do significant upgrades for that much too.

Though I question if you can actually build a 'decent' system with those specs at those prices unless you use really cheap (low MTBF) parts.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

note, for that vast majority of what i said that, it was based on the idea that the 2 new 5d models would follow the path of not having an option for smaller RAW files. 

If the rumors are true for the split, i could see a need for both models. The X would be my art machine, and the III would be for weddings and events. When I was speaking of the need for more processing power, the biggest issue is the load time. If you have a couple hundred shots to go through, waiting 15-30 seconds for the image to load isn't that bad - but if your going through a few thousand then your talking about adding tons of time to each project. 

With that said, I highly doubt that canon would take the sRAW option away, especially on the mk III. It is one of the features people like, and, it is one of the biggest complaints I hear from nikon users about the d800 (the biggest has to be diffraction, and that the sensor really pushes the limits of the current glass - ie need for better glass for higher mp cameras...)

And I didn't even get to filters - if the new glass is any hint, by by 77 mm threading, if we have filters, time to sell and replace!

http://chuckalaimo.com/


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## Maui5150 (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Neeneko said:


> Maui5150 said:
> 
> 
> > You must be on a Mac. Only costs me about $200 - $400 every couple of years to more than double the speed of my PC and all depends if I have to upgrade my motherboard as well as the CPU.
> ...



Go with any number of AMD chips. With a little work you can find some of the 8-Core series for well under $300. The 8150 I have coming in I paid under $250 for. Oh... Forgot to mention.

Motherboard, I was a little on the cheaper side and went Asus M5A88-V-EVO, still has nice number of SATA connections, decent audio, and tolerable video if you want to cut corners. My cost was around $105 on a Microcenter sale

I will round out both and make it sit at $400 for MB/CPU. You do enough hunting and timing (easily can be $350)

I prefer decent amount of Power. Most people make the mistake on going cheap on Power Supplies. I can pick up a Rosewill 630 Continuous Watt from New Egg for $60 (normally $90). My ThermalTake was closer to $100 and is 750 Watts.

So we are up to $500.

Memory, 16GB - I have not been happy with Corsair, and have been going with the G.Skill Ripjaws series, and 16GB can be had for $100 - $110.

Throw in a Video card, like anything from the Radeon 6750 series, and you be easily in the $80 - $90 range (Mine with Rebate was $70 from MicroCenter)

If you re-user your old case and have a decent power supply that does not need things like power for rails on the Video, you can subtract $100 in fact. Same for now need for case.

So with Case and Power Supply (Basically everything new but HD) it is around $800

Without Case and Power Supply you are looking at $600

Use built in Video or reuse your video, especially if you have a beast like the Quadro, and that is then $100 cheaper of $500. 

Already have memory? Might be slower than the latest and greatest, but down to $400. 

Many of the Intel will be faster than the AMD, but for bench mark to price, AMD generally is much more competitive. 

And if you do it right, you can make a lot of great improvements with little effort. 

When I rebuilt my system last year, I wound up going with the AMD X2 1075 because I got it for around $110, and it was more than half of what the 1100T was. Actually I mispoke. AMD was doing a bundle deal, and I got $50 off the combo of ASUS MB and AMD CPU, so I paid about $160 (or the cost of the MB not on sale and the processor for free)

And for being patient and watching, Got the 8150 for $250 with shipping, and am selling my 1075 for around $175, so in the end, my MB / Eight Core Combo will cost me under $250 (and Passmark comparison stepping up from around 5500 to 8200) 

Lots of systems are faster, but I probably average $200 a year on hardware outside of HDs and my PC stays towards the upper end of the curve.


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## moreorless (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Tuggen said:


> moreorless said:
> 
> 
> > Tuggen said:
> ...



The physics that larger pixels will have more light to work with seems pretty obvious and the facts are that sensors of the same generation show superior ISO performance per pixel when those pixels are larger. The recent NEX 7 comparisons I'v seen didnt seem to offer as good performance as the NEX 5 even downscaled so I'v rather sceptical of the idea that this will always even out noise.

ISO performance does seem like it can be targetted towards a specific range aswell with for example many users seeming to preffer the 1D4's higher ISO's and the 5Dmk2's lower ISO's. It would certainly seem to make sense to target the 5D X's performance towards lower ISO settings if its going to be a studio/landscape camera.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



moreorless said:


> Tuggen said:
> 
> 
> > moreorless said:
> ...



OTOH look at the D3x and D3s, now the former has wayyy more MP but guess which has the much greater low ISO DR? Also the D3x that has wayyy more MP. So it's not so simple. If the 5D3 doesn't have a new readout technology then it could end up having 18MP and LESS low ISO DR, by a few stops even, than the D800. Hopefully that won't be the case, although the fact that marketing isn't already bragging about 2 stops better real and 3 stops better usable DR in RAW for low ISO makes you wonder a little. 

Anyway just pointing out that it is not as simple as to say we need it to be low MP so we can get say great low ISO DR. What technology they use matter a lot more than the MP count.


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## Noink Fanb0i (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



> but in my opinion *most hobbits* don't really need a 5DIII.



I agree, since there are no power receptacles in Middle-Earth, those halflings won't be able to recharge the Li-Ion batteries of their DLSRs. Although I suppose they can always ask Gandalf to call down a lightning strike... _"You shall not charge!!!_


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## briansquibb (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



DarkKnightNine said:


> Most hobbyist talk about not needing a higher MP 5DIII but in my opinion most hobbits don't really need a 5DIII. I hate the fact that hobbyist feel that professional camera bodies should be dumbed down to fit their needs.



I guess I am a hobbyist as I dont get money for my photos.

Why should hobbyists get inferior kit? I get a lot of hassle from journeymen pros because I roll up with better kit than them - because it is their living and they need the kit to make money so they dont spend. Hobbyists like me keep the pressure on the manufacturers because we will spend our money - but only on the better kit.

You are right - hobbyists wont be going for the 5DIII - we will be aiming for the 1DX


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## moreorless (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> OTOH look at the D3x and D3s, now the former has wayyy more MP but guess which has the much greater low ISO DR? Also the D3x that has wayyy more MP. So it's not so simple. If the 5D3 doesn't have a new readout technology then it could end up having 18MP and LESS low ISO DR, by a few stops even, than the D800. Hopefully that won't be the case, although the fact that marketing isn't already bragging about 2 stops better real and 3 stops better usable DR in RAW for low ISO makes you wonder a little.
> 
> Anyway just pointing out that it is not as simple as to say we need it to be low MP so we can get say great low ISO DR. What technology they use matter a lot more than the MP count.



I agree its more complex than that which is why I believe as its wrong to dismiss these stats(based on those grounds anyway) or to hold views such as "downsized higher resolution will always equal lower resolution on noise performance".


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## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



Noink Fanb0i said:


> > but in my opinion *most hobbits* don't really need a 5DIII.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, since there are no power receptacles in Middle-Earth, those halflings won't be able to recharge the Li-Ion batteries of their DLSRs. Although I suppose they can always ask Gandalf to call down a lightning strike... _"You shall not charge!!!_



LOL!!!!!

http://chuckalaimo.com/


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



briansquibb said:


> You are right - hobbyists wont be going for the 5DIII - we will be aiming for the 1DX



+1.

Although, I have to say the rumored spec list does give me some pause - enough to wait and see what the 5DIII/X has to offer. I do hope they announce the new body before the 1D X is actually available, it will make for a less risky decision.


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## Axilrod (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

Interesting tidbit from a rumor from June (before 1DX was announced)
*"The 5D Mark III wouldn’t make an appearance on the scene until summer 2012. It will feature a modified version of the upcoming 1Ds Mark IV sensor*."

Does this mean that at least one of the upcoming cameras will share a similar sensor to the 1DX?


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## bigblue1ca (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



neuroanatomist said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > You are right - hobbyists wont be going for the 5DIII - we will be aiming for the 1DX
> ...



+1 

I've mentioned previously I'm in the same boat and waiting to see the 5DIII/X before pulling the trigger on the 1D X. However the more I see pictures, videos, and read all the Canon information on the 1D X, the more I feel this pulling urge to get the 1D X regardless of what the 5DIII/X turns out to be....lol. Plus even if the 5DIII/X is announced at the end of this month, if the 1D X is any example (which hopefully it isn't), it'll be a long while for concrete reviews and we might be lucky to see it commercially available by the fall? 

This is worse than being a kid waiting for Christmas. It will certainly be nice to see some RAW images from the 1D X and more comprehensive reviews than wow that looks good on LCD screen at a trade show. Some real life examples of actions shots in low light at 6400/12800/25600 would be a great place to start along with a detailed account of how great the AF actually is.


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## iaind (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



neuroanatomist said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > You are right - hobbyists wont be going for the 5DIII - we will be aiming for the 1DX
> ...



Same here. Originally thought the 1Dx was out of my budget, so await specs and prices of 5DIII/X to finally decide. If Canon bring bodies in at anything over £3000 the 1DX may begin to look relatively cheap.


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## JR (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



briansquibb said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Most hobbyist talk about not needing a higher MP 5DIII but in my opinion most hobbits don't really need a 5DIII. I hate the fact that hobbyist feel that professional camera bodies should be dumbed down to fit their needs.
> ...



+1 there too, I am a hobbyist, and I will be going for the 1DX for sure...


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## BDD (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

1D-X vs 5D3/X. I would think this would depend on your needs (honestly). Are there features in the 1D-X that will not be available in either the 5D3/X? 

For me, if the specs are accurate, then the 5D3 will be more than suitable for my needs. Being that I'm a hobbyist and not a working photographer. Though, if you can see yourself getting both versions of the upcoming 5D and won't mind lugging around the heft/bulk of the 1D-X...I say go for it!

If I were sticking with Nikon...then I would be spending more money for a D3s or D4. Given the choice I would opt for a FF camera the size of a D800 or 5D3/X. As I do plan on taking this camera on my travels as well as shooting locally.


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## vuilang (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

I think the next camera would be named in different model. Such as 3d or so...


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## briansquibb (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



BDD said:


> 1D-X vs 5D3/X. I would think this would depend on your needs (honestly). Are there features in the 1D-X that will not be available in either the 5D3/X?



Hobbyists have wants rather than needs. Hardest thing is getting the budget together to satisfy those needs


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## max (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*

This seemed to be spot on for the 5D III


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## BDD (Mar 1, 2012)

*Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]*



max said:


> This seemed to be spot on for the 5D III



I'm just glad Canon didn't decide to go with a high MP camera to compete with the Nikon D800 (s). I think the latest specs are confirmed. And Canon will be delivering a 5D3 with better native ISO (100-25,800...expandable to 102,xxx). Better than I expected. Bettering the native ISO spec of the Nikon D3s/D4.

Will be interesting watching the live cast tonight.

One item to add to my "gift to self xmas list"...I think next week Apple will be announcing the iPad 3 (2nd gift to self).  Then, later this year, the iPhone 5 (will they finally give us at least a 4.5" screen & 4G LTE support?). Great year for techies...


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