# Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 31, 2014)

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<p>A patent showing new 85mm & 50mm designs has surfaced. Both an 85mm f/1.2 and an 85mm f/1.8 appear as well as a 50mm f/1.4 and a 100mm f/2.</p>
<p>An updated 85mm f/1.2L II has been mentioned as being under development for quite some time, and we’re all expecting a new 50mm lens, which is an oft rumored product.</p>
<p><strong>Patent Publication No. 2014-52412 </strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Publication date 2014.3.20</li>
<li>Filing date 2012.9.5</li>
</ul>
<table summary="embodiment" frame="box" rules="all">
<thead>
<tr>
<th><span>Example</span></th>
<th><span>Focal length</span></th>
<th><span>Fno.</span></th>
<th><span>Length</span></th>
<th><span>BF</span></th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><span>One</span></td>
<td><span>85.00</span></td>
<td><span>1.24</span></td>
<td><span>125.55</span></td>
<td><span>38.98</span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span>Two</span></td>
<td><span>85.00</span></td>
<td><span>1.80</span></td>
<td><span>113.57</span></td>
<td><span>39.50</span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span>Three</span></td>
<td><span>51.70</span></td>
<td><span>1.41</span></td>
<td><span>88.04</span></td>
<td><span>39.00</span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span>Four</span></td>
<td><span>100.00</span></td>
<td><span>2.00</span></td>
<td><span>120.00</span></td>
<td><span>39.60</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><span>

Image height = 21.64mm</span></p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-03-31" target="_blank">EG</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## romanr74 (Mar 31, 2014)

I would be particularly interested to see what an updated EF 85mm f/1.2L would be like. The II is an awesome piece of glass yet a little clumsy and slow. Optically I love it!!!


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## wockawocka (Mar 31, 2014)

Agreed, sharp as a razor wide open, just slow to focus.

Stick the AF speed of the 1.8 in the 1.2 BOOM!


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 31, 2014)

The 85IIL is bitingly sharp wide open, although the AF is slow it's still very accurate. But I'm not sure I'd be selling my mkII for a mkIII. There's not much to update here, especially if my existing copy is so good. My copy is sharper than my 135L wide open. It's THAT good!

A new 50mm f1.2 II L, well there's not much more to say to that than "bring it on" and lets hope it's better than the last one. The Zeiss Otus and new Siggi are the new benchmarks, where as most of the 50mm lenses from Canon have been sub optimal in the last 20 years. It's been a game of which drawbacks is a photographer prepared to put up with as opposed to which features are most useful.

The other two lenses? Well, not really my bag.


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## Etienne (Mar 31, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> The 85IIL is bitingly sharp wide open, although the AF is slow it's still very accurate. But I'm not sure I'd be selling my mkII for a mkIII. There's not much to update here, especially if my existing copy is so good. My copy is sharper than my 135L wide open. It's THAT good!
> 
> A new 50mm f1.2 II L, well there's not much more to say to that than "bring it on" and lets hope it's better than the last one. The Zeiss Otus and new Siggi are the new benchmarks, where as most of the 50mm lenses from Canon have been sub optimal in the last 20 years. It's been a game of which drawbacks is a photographer prepared to put up with as opposed to which features are most useful.
> 
> The other two lenses? Well, not really my bag.



Looks like 50mm 1.4 ... hope they add IS ... for video


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## Etienne (Mar 31, 2014)

I could go for the 50 1.4 and the 85 1.8 if they have IS. The big issue is that they are probably 2 to 3 years out for me....

... first they have to get announced (months or years from now), many months later they may be available at a very high premium, and then 12 to 18 months until the price becomes reasonable.


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## BL (Mar 31, 2014)

I love, love, love my 85II for all reasons stated above, but seriously, this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post.

If they found a way to reduce the green/magenta bokeh CA, I would upgrade in a heartbeat (assuming that's even possible on 1.2 lenses)


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## ajfotofilmagem (Mar 31, 2014)

I'm waiting for the mythical Canon 50mm F1.4 IS. If it takes too long, I go for the Sigma.


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## Lightmaster (Mar 31, 2014)

we have seen enough patents over the years..... what we need is PRODUCTS.


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## PepeSilvia (Mar 31, 2014)

Etienne said:


> I could go for the 50 1.4 and the 85 1.8 if they have IS. The big issue is that they are probably 2 to 3 years out for me....
> 
> ... first they have to get announced (months or years from now), many months later they may be available at a very high premium, and then 12 to 18 months until the price becomes reasonable.



Yeah, I know what you mean. I have been eyeing the current 85mm 1.8 for a while, but every time I consider ordering one I hesitate knowing in the back of my mind that an updated version with IS is coming. These patents keep popping up, but seriously how long does it take? The 50mm 1.4 replacement in particular has been rumored for a few years now.

I would love a new 85mm with IS, but $500 is about the most I can pay for it. The 24 28 and 35 IS all started pretty high but dropped to around $500, so that's what I'm hoping the new 50 85 and 100 IS will cost (if not from the start, then a few months to a year later).

I know the current 85mm 1.8 is still a nice lens, but I'd really rather not deal with buying and reselling, and if I wait for the new one to at least be announced and I can't afford it, the current 1.8 might go down in price since it will be the "old" model and more people will be selling to upgrade.


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## Sanaraken (Mar 31, 2014)

I would love to have the 85mm IS as long as the price is right.


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## Sabaki (Mar 31, 2014)

If there's one prime 'bokeh beast' I'd love to have in my bag, it would be the 85mm f/1.2 mkiii!!!

A fellow club member who photographs for magazines has one and I think it's an incredible lens, aside from the lethargic AF. 

Would I want a 50mm? I'm not sure anymore. It used to be a future endeavor for me but my 24-70 is pretty awesome at 50mm...

But yeah, I think it's time we see some of these rumours manifest in plastic, metal and glass!!!


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## BLFPhoto (Mar 31, 2014)

BL said:


> I love, love, love my 85II for all reasons stated above, but seriously, this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post.
> 
> If they found a way to reduce the green/magenta bokeh CA, I would upgrade in a heartbeat (assuming that's even possible on 1.2 lenses)



It is correctable to some degree through use of APO lens designs. As always, though, there are varying degrees of effectivity even among respective APO designs, and if we REALLY demand the goods...we're probably in Leica territory for price. 

The third party makers (Sigma!) often designate APO on lenses, but while the design may be APO, their particular realization of the design usually leaves much to be desired. This can be due to any number of design constraints. 

Canon's L-series Flourite coatings are part of their APO equations where used. However, to the best of my knowledge, the 85mm f/1.2L is not an APO design. Maybe someone has more or better information than I have, though.

Leica made a 90mm APO lens that will show you what REAL APO can achieve in shorter lenses in the portrait range. It sold for almost $4k, though. How badly do you want rid of that LOCA on the Canon 85? I'm pretty ok with mine! ;-)


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## tron (Mar 31, 2014)

It's just a patent. So, I will continue enjoying my EF85mm 1.2L II for the years to come ;D


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## Ruined (Mar 31, 2014)

I think these are more likely to come out in 2015-2016. The 50mm f/1.8 IS hasn't been released yet, I think that will come first - and the 85L II is still quite new, though you never know. Unless they are planning to simplify the 50 line to just two prime lenses (1.2/1.4) which could mean dropping the 1.8...


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 31, 2014)

BLFPhoto said:


> BL said:
> 
> 
> > I love, love, love my 85II for all reasons stated above, but seriously, this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post.
> ...



The 85IIL is an expensive lens to design, engineer and build. It uses some pretty high grade design components not seen in other lenses...like automotive grade ball bearings to shunt the internal glass about smotthly and reliably. Canon can easily match zeiss optics if the wanted to and the lens priced wouldn't be anywhere near the level of the Zeiss glass. Canon sells a lot more lenses than Zeiss, so it's R&D can be spread over a larger number of production units and Zeiss ever could. Canon also will need to add a top tier AF system to their lenses...and sometimes this is a logistical problem...which is why the 85IIL uses a purely electronic AF system with no mechanical linkage. Full time Manual focusing is achieved using the AF motor because some of the glass elements which need to be precisely moved have a lot of mass. A mechanical link just isn't possible with this optical formula.


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## CarlTN (Apr 1, 2014)

The 85L ii is not "new", it's at least 6 years old now, I believe. I know it wasn't brand new when I rented it 4 years ago.

I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open. It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma). Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.

For anyone using it on a 1DX, I could better understand why they think it's extremely sharp wide open. Your pixels are fairly large on that camera. If your subjects are all in the center and the rest is defocused, you would never see the lens' faults at or close to wide open aperture.

I don't see anyone calling for weather sealing in a new version...seems like that would be good. Faster autofocus, would likely require a radically different design, would it not? I suppose a version 3 would need to autofocus faster, though. Just not sure how fast it could be.

As for IS...it would be nice, but IS isn't all that necessary at this focal length and aperture, unless you do a lot of landscape shots hand-held...or at least it seems so to me. If you're shooting portraits without strobes in available light...those people are still moving, even if only breathing. You still ideally need 1/160 if they are standing or sitting very still, or else even more shutter speed if you want to stop motion. Panning with IS and such a wide aperture, would be very interesting though, I have to admit. But like for "street photography", IS isn't all that necessary. It would also add weight to an already heavy "canon-ball" lens...

If I could afford (and justify owning) it I would buy the current version and be happy, though. Perhaps other lenses will come along that can really give it a run for its money optically, and be able to autofocus faster and as accurately (or more so). Not sure the Sigma 85 is up to the task from what I've read. As for the f/1.8 Canon...well, it's an f/1.8...but seems like an extreme bargain. But it is a much older still design.


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## Caps18 (Apr 1, 2014)

If it is a 50mm f/1.4 IS, that would be a hard choice over the 50mm f/1.2.


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## Viggo (Apr 1, 2014)

CarlTN said:


> The 85L ii is not "new", it's at least 6 years old now, I believe. I know it wasn't brand new when I rented it 4 years ago.



Well, compared to the 35, 135, TS45, 50 f1.4 etc it is new. It's nearly 5 years since the 7d was announced and the 35 L has been around since 98 or something.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2014)

Caps18 said:


> If it is a 50mm f/1.4 IS, that would be a hard choice over the 50mm f/1.2.



Not for me. I'll take the IS over 1/3 stop any day. 1.4 is already very shallow and bright


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## GMCPhotographics (Apr 2, 2014)

CarlTN said:


> I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open. It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma). Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.



My copy of the 85II L is really sharp wide open. It's sharper than my 135L wide open. My 2nd photographer's copy isn't quite as sharp as mine but it's still very sharp. 

I'm really not that fussed about coma, it's very easily correctable. The point of the 85IIL is that it's a portraiture lens, hence the soft corners, dreamy bokeh and strong vignette wide open...it's an optical photoshop look...and really works wonders with portraits.


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## CarlTN (Apr 2, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open. It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma). Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.
> ...



No doubt there's sample variation, I suspect you have a soft 135 and the 85 I rented was slightly soft. I fully realize it's a portrait lens. But as for coma being "easily correctable", I'm not sure how you do that.


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## tron (Apr 2, 2014)

CarlTN said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > CarlTN said:
> ...



@CarlTN +1 on your coma comment.

@GMCPhotographics Vey interesting on coma correction! Maybe you know something we don't

http://www.lenstip.com/189.7-Lens_review-Canon_EF_85_mm_f_1.2L_II_USM_Coma_and_astigmatism.html


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## CarlTN (Apr 2, 2014)

tron said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > GMCPhotographics said:
> ...



Thanks for the link! I think even the Zeiss Otus 55mm has some coma on full frame borders and corners, at wide aperture, but it's probably better than the 85L. I don't feel like searching for it right now. If it has .000 % coma even in the FF corners at f/1.4, I'd be very surprised.


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## GMCPhotographics (Apr 2, 2014)

Apologies guys, getting my loca and coma confused....but it's not something which is much of an issue with portraiture, I've never pointed this lens at the stary night sky. With all large aperture prime lenses, one has to take the vices with it's benefits. It's not a perfect general lens but it takes some fine portraits. 
I have used it for landscape work, which showed that my copy is very sharp wide open and stopped down. But it's heavy for an 85mm prime and it's max stopped down aperture of f16 is a bit short for star bursts

Not many users of this lens are that fussed by weather sealing. Adding a rubber ring doesn't really add much to it's weather sealing capacity. I've ridden my 85IIL in quite heavy rain and not had any issues:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4494339793/in/photostream/


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## vscd (Apr 2, 2014)

> [...]this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post[...]



Did you try DXO Optics? I have no problem with LOCA/CA after developing it in this Raw-tool. Sometimes, if they're really harsh I also use RawTherapy for manually optimze some pictures... but normally all optical problems are gone after a stock conversion. And..no, this is no advert. But in the beginning I also thought the OOC-JPG is the final picture... but hell, there is so much more to get of your pictures. Especially with the 85LII.


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## CarlTN (Apr 3, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Apologies guys, getting my loca and coma confused....but it's not something which is much of an issue with portraiture, I've never pointed this lens at the stary night sky. With all large aperture prime lenses, one has to take the vices with it's benefits. It's not a perfect general lens but it takes some fine portraits.
> I have used it for landscape work, which showed that my copy is very sharp wide open and stopped down. But it's heavy for an 85mm prime and it's max stopped down aperture of f16 is a bit short for star bursts
> 
> Not many users of this lens are that fussed by weather sealing. Adding a rubber ring doesn't really add much to it's weather sealing capacity. I've ridden my 85IIL in quite heavy rain and not had any issues:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4494339793/in/photostream/



Well they sure are bothered by the Sigma 35 Art not having a rubber ring...I guess if it cost $2000, then they wouldn't have a problem? lol.


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## CarlTN (Apr 3, 2014)

vscd said:


> > [...]this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post[...]
> 
> 
> 
> Did you try DXO Optics? I have no problem with LOCA/CA after developing it in this Raw-tool. Sometimes, if they're really harsh I also use RawTherapy for manually optimze some pictures... but normally all optical problems are gone after a stock conversion. And..no, this is no advert. But in the beginning I also thought the OOC-JPG is the final picture... but hell, there is so much more to get of your pictures. Especially with the 85LII.



I'm surprised how good LR is with LOCA/CA...


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## vscd (Apr 3, 2014)

>I'm surprised how good LR is with LOCA/CA...

Of course, this is another fine tool for those tasks. I also use LR5 for some specific pictures, but I don't like the workflow. I *hate *to import every picture into a tool, just to see a JPG of my RAW.


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## CarlTN (Apr 3, 2014)

vscd said:


> >I'm surprised how good LR is with LOCA/CA...
> 
> Of course, this is another fine tool for those tasks. I also use LR5 for some specific pictures, but I don't like the workflow. I *hate *to import every picture into a tool, just to see a JPG of my RAW.



I'm with you there, agreed! It's kind of like adobe acting like they are the government, deciding where and when your files can be organized!


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## saveyourmoment (May 28, 2016)

Can we expext something new about a 85 1.2/1.8 this year? The 35 1.4 ii is out, so it is time fir a new high quality 85 prime.


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