# 7DII issue: refurbished 7DII or new 80D?



## XL+ (Oct 2, 2016)

My 7DII suffers from (meanwhile 6th maintenance) permanent hardware problems (cam suddenly switches off). I thought after the last repair, this error has stopped. 
But this week it happened again. 3
My dealer offered me to get an refurbished exchange body with about 40.000 releases, or an new 80D.

I´m torn, which solution would be best. 
My question is: Is the AF (and the performance at all) of the 80D visibly slower as the 7DII`s? 
I do shoot most times birds, but honestly with the quiet shutter leaease mode.
I read, the 80D has an better image quality and better noise, than the 7DII when shooting at Iso 1600.

I like the crop mode, as the places where I shoot are far away, so the extra reach is welcome.


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## Mikehit (Oct 2, 2016)

First off, if this is a repeating problem, I should ask where you live because here in UK if the repairs had been done by a Canon workshop you would (probably) long ago have passed the time to demand a new replacement, not a used one or a different model.

I have the 7D2 and my wife has just bought the 80D so my direct comparisons have been limited. But what I can say at the moment is that the differences are minimal on focus speed. The 80D has a slightly lower spec AF system but that is only in respect of the number of AF points and the flexibility in focus modes. But then again to be honest I don't think I use the 7D2 AF system to its full potential anyway and I occasionally find the options on focus areas a distraction so if Iwas buying new I am not 100% sure I would still go 7D2 !! 
I have seen the reports on noise/dynamic range of the 80D and although I can see the differences between that and the 7D2 I don't think they are of a scale that makes me disappointed with my camera. 

Additionally the the 80D is certainly lighter and lacks the heavy weather sealing of the 7D2.
Interestingly, I have read some 7D2 users who shoot wildlife have downsized to the 80D because of its smaller form while retaining many of the functionality. 

So all told I think you could go to the 80D with real confidence but as I said above I am not sure you should have to. I would even consider writing to Canon directly to explain how unhappy you are with their not having resolved a basic issue and they may take matters into their own hands and offer a replacement to keep good PR.


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## XL+ (Oct 2, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> First off, if this is a repeating problem, I should ask where you live because here in UK if the repairs had been done by a Canon workshop you would (probably) long ago have passed the time to demand a new replacement, not a used one or a different model.
> 
> I have the 7D2 and my wife has just bought the 80D so my direct comparisons have been limited. But what I can say at the moment is that the differences are minimal on focus speed. The 80D has a slightly lower spec AF system but that is only in respect of the number of AF points and the flexibility in focus modes. But then again to be honest I don't think I use the 7D2 AF system to its full potential anyway and I occasionally find the options on focus areas a distraction so if Iwas buying new I am not 100% sure I would still go 7D2 !!
> I have seen the reports on noise/dynamic range of the 80D and although I can see the differences between that and the 7D2 I don't think they are of a scale that makes me disappointed with my camera.
> ...



This is the problem I´m suffering from. Canon just offers further repairing. Canon Germany is very restrictive. The exchange option comes from the shop, where I bought the body. And they are not pleased, that this problem is still existing.

The 27 AF points when using the 100-400mm with an 1.4 extender would be an light option to carry. There the 80D is in advantage of the 7DII.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 2, 2016)

I'd get it repaired again, that refurbished one may have the same issues which is why it was traded in. A new 80D might be a reasonable trade if it does not cost you more. The dealer will have Canon repair it and sell it as refurbished.


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## tron (Oct 2, 2016)

XL+ said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > First off, if this is a repeating problem, I should ask where you live because here in UK if the repairs had been done by a Canon workshop you would (probably) long ago have passed the time to demand a new replacement, not a used one or a different model.
> ...


I would get the new 80D and forget about any problems.


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## AlanF (Oct 2, 2016)

A further consideration is that the 80D lacks the centre spot focus of the 7DII. If you try and sort out small birds from a complex background, the centre spot rather than the larger central single square can be crucial.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 2, 2016)

Good thread. A few months ago the same topic was addressed, 7DII vs 80D, but much of the talk was based on specs, not hands-on comparisons.

With the weather getting cooler and birds coming back, I've been asking the same question. 7DII or 80D.

I'd like something good for birds wading, perched, in nests, and, occasionally flying. It would be nice to have more AF points than I get with my 5DIII and 1.4x III.

Thanks, AlanF, for pointing out the lack of spot focus on the 80D. Twigs and other obstructions can be a major pain. My 5DIII does work much better with the spot focus.

I see the 80D as maybe more flexible than the 7DII, especially for family weekends and playing around with the video.

It's a tough choice without some insights from users of both.


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## Steve Balcombe (Oct 2, 2016)

I have both. The 80D does have a better sensor, and for some applications I find the articulated screen very useful. For static subjects it is sometimes the better camera. But for any situation where I have to act quickly, whether it's a moving subject or just one where I have little time to aim-focus-compose-shoot, I much prefer the 7D2. It's not just the raw speed, although that is certainly a factor, it's also the handling which is so much better.

If I had to keep only one it would be the 7D2.


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## itsab1989 (Oct 2, 2016)

XL+ said:


> This is the problem I´m suffering from. Canon just offers further repairing. Canon Germany is very restrictive. The exchange option comes from the shop, where I bought the body. And they are not pleased, that this problem is still existing.



I am also from Germany and I have to agree with you. My 7D II has AF issues and I sent it and all my lenses twice to Canon for adjustments. Everytime it came back everything was supposed to work properly. But it didn't.
So I wrote the online store where I bought the camera (Cyberport) about my problem. At first it seemed that they didn't care that much, but then they agreed to send the camera to canon for a refund. But Canon said that everything works fine so I didn't get my money back. Cyberport told me some things about always sending the camera body and the lenses together to CPS and stuff. I had done that and I proved it to them and I showed them pictures where you could easily see how it missed focus in quite easy situations. The result was that Cyberport offered me a refund of about 2/3 of the price I paid for it - about 1050€. So I could either have a camera of that I know that it doesn't work properly or lose about 500€, have no camera at all and some expensive lenses I cannot use. So I suggested that I would take the camera back if they send it to canon for another check. They agreed and after two weeks I got a message from them in which they told me that Canon now wants me to send them all my lenses, too.
Now my camera has been gone for about two months and my lenses since about two weeks. I am really curious in which condition I get all this stuff back...
Servicewüste Deutschland...

Sorry that I couldn't help you with your question. But after I read your post I wanted to share some of my own experiences.


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## Sharlin (Oct 2, 2016)

itsab1989 said:


> XL+ said:
> 
> 
> > This is the problem I´m suffering from. Canon just offers further repairing. Canon Germany is very restrictive. The exchange option comes from the shop, where I bought the body. And they are not pleased, that this problem is still existing.
> ...



Surely you have some sort of consumer rights agency or ombudsman to contact? I'm sure they wouldn't consider it at all reasonable having to send a camera for repairs six times and could pressure Canon to just provide a mint replacement?


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## Mikehit (Oct 2, 2016)

From this site:

https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/357501-consumer-protection-return-of-goods-refund-from-german-shop-jewellerjuwelier/



> Try the Verbraucherzentralle. They are the proper people to answer this sort of question (German equivalent of Consumer Rights Ombudsperson).
> Their FFM office: http://www.verbraucher.de/frankfurt
> 
> and
> ...



I would contact them and get experienced advice. 
I would find it hard to believe that UK has more consumer protection than in mainland Europe.
If you want a refund that is also very difficult in the UK, but here the shop must be allowed reasonable efforts to correct the problem (ie repair it). But there comes a point the customer has the right to demand a replacement - effectively this is a breach of trust in the contract of purchase so you can say 'this particular camera is fundamentally knackered' and the shop can do virtually nothing to stop it.
Note that each time it is repaired our warranty period effectively restarts all over again. 

As I say, I would very surprised if you do not have the same level of redress in Germany which is why it is worth speaking to the organisation linked.


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## Mikehit (Oct 2, 2016)

PS sorry to divert the thread but I would be hacked off if I had to accept a faulty camera or exchange it for one with 40k shutter or a lower spec camera. You are losing €500+ there.


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## Otara (Oct 3, 2016)

"My question is: Is the AF (and the performance at all) of the 80D visibly slower as the 7DII`s?"

I have both and I far prefer the 7D2 for BIF. The extra AF types, as well as burst rate, buffer clearing rate and joystick for af point changing all help a lot. 

I also dont agree theres any meaningful difference between them at 1600 ISO, if anything I give the 7D2 a slight nod. The lower ISO's are far better on the 80D, but at 1600 no.

The 80D is a great all rounder for video and for people, landscape where I use lower ISO's. I bought it in the hope it would translate into being OK for birds too, but in practise have now ended up keeping both.


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## XL+ (Oct 3, 2016)

Due to criticism of some members, I have this service problem. In Germany, it is not so clear where and how far the companies are liable to repair defective equipment. Especially, if the product is older than some weeks/month. So, misusing could always be mentioned by the manufacturer.Of course, better legally qualified are able to enforce their rights better. But I´m not.

The problem at AF issues are, that most companies are not able to test the performance really properly. Some go out and test it on passing cars and other stuff. But it could be different to BIF or wildlife. So it is sometimes hard to convince the service company from your problem. 
I did so too, sending my 400m and 600mm primes and 100-400mm II to CPS inclusive some Raw shots where you can see the lacking of AF - the problem my old body was suffering from. But they refused, because it is normal that the AF needs time to get sharp. So I should have been accepting, that the first 10-15 shots could always be unsharp.  

Now the problem appeared at the CPS repairing center two times, but they did not find any hardware problems. so there just an software update was applied.


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## XL+ (Oct 3, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> XL+ said:
> 
> 
> > ...because it is normal that the AF needs time to get sharp. So I should have been accepting, that the first 10-15 shots could always be unsharp.
> ...


 :
If you are not willed or allowed to fix problems, the statement of an expert preserves your company from further requirements. But I did not believe ;D and wrote an readers letter for an German magazine. Suddenly, I received mail from Canon and the AF problem was fixed in one week


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## Mikehit (Oct 3, 2016)

You mean it has been fixed or said they will look at it again?


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## XL+ (Oct 3, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> You mean it has been fixed or said they will look at it again?


Sent it to the service company that works for Canon CPS. They did some hardware exchange inside. And it worked properly.


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## Mikehit (Oct 3, 2016)

Timelines don't make sense, or you have explained it badly. It sounded to me like you had only just written to the magazine and Canon had recently replied, and you say it 'worked properly' but have been offered a replacement. All very confusing. 

Anyway, consensus seems to be that the 80D will be great unless you want to do a lot of birds in flight stuff (which I presume also extends to fast action). Whichever route you go down, good luck!


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## XL+ (Oct 3, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> Timelines don't make sense, or you have explained it badly. It sounded to me like you had only just written to the magazine and Canon had recently replied, and you say it 'worked properly' but have been offered a replacement. All very confusing.
> 
> Anyway, consensus seems to be that the 80D will be great unless you want to do a lot of birds in flight stuff (which I presume also extends to fast action). Whichever route you go down, good luck!



Sorry for being confusing. 
1. Problem quite after buying in february 2015: AF inconsitency & inacurracy. Solved after some month (after having written an readers letter). 
Worked well until 6/2016 when blackouts started. I hope it is better now....


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## XL+ (Oct 3, 2016)

Otara said:


> "My question is: Is the AF (and the performance at all) of the 80D visibly slower as the 7DII`s?"
> 
> I have both and I far prefer the 7D2 for BIF. The extra AF types, as well as burst rate, buffer clearing rate and joystick for af point changing all help a lot.
> 
> ...



Thanks.


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## XL+ (Oct 3, 2016)

AlanF said:


> A further consideration is that the 80D lacks the centre spot focus of the 7DII. If you try and sort out small birds from a complex background, the centre spot rather than the larger central single square can be crucial.





YuengLinger said:


> Good thread. A few months ago the same topic was addressed, 7DII vs 80D, but much of the talk was based on specs, not hands-on comparisons.
> 
> With the weather getting cooler and birds coming back, I've been asking the same question. 7DII or 80D.
> 
> ...




Thanks. Spot AF is often used by me. So, the 7DII is now favourite, despite ....

I think, I will rent one to see, how it performs.

The alternative will be to sell it and just keep my 5DIV. But the wide AF area and 1.6 times crop factor is an big plus for shooting small birds.


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## XL+ (Oct 5, 2016)

Maybe, I found the real problem for the shut off: When I disassemble the battery grip, the body works properly. I phoned the service company and did an last send in with the mounbted battery grip. I hope this was the problem


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