# DxO Labs in receivership?



## Mikehit (Apr 21, 2018)

Has anyone come across this news? It is in French but Google Translate is helpful...apparently it relates to the DxO software and while not bankrupt it seems they are having problems

https://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,282652.0.html


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## Hector1970 (Apr 21, 2018)

According to their own metrics they are the best camera testers in the world with the biggest dynamic range.
It's a pity its performance in real life situations isn't so brilliant


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## dpc (Apr 21, 2018)

DxO Photolab is excellent software. I’ve used it for years and have essentially replaced Lightroom with it. I certainly hope the company isn’t in serious trouble.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 21, 2018)

They are in serious trouble, but I don't understand French Bankruptcy Laws and exactly what they mean. It might be a reorginization like US Chapter Eleven, or the Company will be sold or auctioned off.

It seems unlikely that they will go away, someone will buy the photo editing portion.

Legal notices Dxo Labs

Adresse :
3 RUE Nationale
92100 Boulogne Billancourt 
Annonce légale publiée dans le Bodacc n°20170082 du 27/04/2017
20 décembre 2017
Modification de représentant
Enterprise (s) issuer (s) of the advertisement 
Name : DXO LABS 
Code Siren : 444 777 577 
Legal form : Limited Company 
Company officers : Alternate Auditor: BEAS represented by Pierre Victor; Statutory Auditor: DELOITTE & ASSOCIES in office on March 23, 2006; President: MENIERE Jerome on 15 December 2017 
Legal notice published in the Bodacc n ° 20170244 of 20/12/2017
March 16, 2018
Judgment
Activity : design and marketing of image processing software, design, marketing of electronic components. 
Comment : Judgment declaring the opening of a bankruptcy proceeding, date of cessation of payments on January 15, 2018 appointing administrator Selarl Fhb Mission Conducted By Me Hélène Bourbouloux 16 PLACE IRIS TOUR CB21 92040 Paris Defense Cedex with powers : assist, legal representative Selarl C. Low Mission Conducted By Me Christophe Bass 171 AVENUE CHARLES DE GAULLE 92200 Neuilly-sur-Seine. The claims are to be declared, within two months of this publication, to the Judicial Agent or on the electronic portal at www . Creditors-services. com.
Date of effect : 07/03/2018 
Company (s) issuing the listing 
Denomination : DXO LABS 
Siren Code : 444777577 
Legal form : Limited Joint Stock Company 
Address : 
3 rue Nationale 
92100 Boulogne-BillancourtLegalnotice 
published in the Bodacc n ° 20180053 of 16/03/2018


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2018)

DxO split into two in Sept last year, DxO Labs, that covers the testing/evaluation and consulting business and DxO Mark is the second company that resulted from the split. DxO Mark owns the rights to the physical products, software and the camera and testing apparatus. It is a privately owned and separate entity.

Reading between the lines they have jettisoned the costly side of the business that didn't generate income and led to an unending series of contentious measurements and results and let that take the burden of debt with it. The parts of the original company that generate income are safely separated and there will be no change whatsoever to the software or hardware DxO Mark sell, which is everything DxO ever sold.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 21, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> DxO split into two in Sept last year, DxO Labs, that covers the testing/evaluation and consulting business and DxO Mark is the second company that resulted from the split. DxO Mark owns the rights to the physical products, software and the camera and testing apparatus. It is a privately owned and separate entity.
> 
> Reading between the lines they have jettisoned the costly side of the business that didn't generate income and led to an unending series of contentious measurements and results and let that take the burden of debt with it. The parts of the original company that generate income are safely separated and there will be no change whatsoever to the software or hardware DxO Mark sell, which is everything DxO ever sold.



I think you have that backwards. DxOMark Image Labs is the testing/measurement side of the split. DxO Labs produces PhotoLab, FilmPack, bought the Nik suite from Google, etc. 

[quote author=DxO]We’ve had an important internal change as well: In September, DxOMark Image Labs was spun off from DxO Labs. DxOMark Image Labs is now a privately-owned, independent company. As such, we continue to pursue the development and commercialization of image quality solutions and services that support our customers in designing the best-quality camera systems for a range of markets, including smartphones, DSC/DSLRs, drones, action cams, surveillance, and automotive.
[/quote]

So it appears that the potential that the software side will be impacted.


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## unfocused (Apr 21, 2018)

It would be a shame if this short circuits the revival of Nik. I still find Silver Effects pro to be the best b&w conversion software around and also use their noise control program when I need a quick fix while processing a lot of pictures.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > DxO split into two in Sept last year, DxO Labs, that covers the testing/evaluation and consulting business and DxO Mark is the second company that resulted from the split. DxO Mark owns the rights to the physical products, software and the camera and testing apparatus. It is a privately owned and separate entity.
> ...



So it appears that the potential that the software side will be impacted.
[/quote]

Hmm,

I was referencing this article. https://www.thephoblographer.com/2018/01/11/dxomark-and-dxo-labs-split/. _"As far as what the change means, well, basically the DxO testing/evaluation and consulting business is now separate (as DxO Labs) and the products of the company, like their image processing software and the DxO One camera are under the umbrella of a separate and unaffiliated entity."_


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 21, 2018)

That source has it wrong. 

Go to http://www.dxo.com, where you'll find PhotoLab, DxO One, etc., and scroll to the bottom where it states, "Copyright © 2003 - 2018 DxO Labs.".

Go to http://www.dxomark.com, where you'll find their camera and lens testing data, reviews of cell phone cameras, etc., and scroll to the bottom where it states, "Copyright © 2008-2018 DxOMark Image Labs."


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 21, 2018)

The photography shakeups are coming. SmugMug buys Flickr, DXO Labs is in trouble, Which camera company will be next.


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## Bennymiata (Apr 22, 2018)

Nikon.


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## zim (Apr 22, 2018)

Wonder why they didn't run with a subscription model before this happened.
I assume that although the two companies are split DxO labs relies on data from Mark so if labs was bought over I can't see it surviving in it's current form. Concerning as I love prime


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 22, 2018)

There is virtually no news about this, it is apparently due to unpaid bills, but DXO seems to be saying it will be resolved.

I think that they may be selling off part of the company, or finding a financial backer.

"The entire message: 

"Hello sir, 

In fact, the company has recently been placed under a regime of judicial administration, the time to reorganize. 
Although we can not comment on this situation, we can nevertheless assure you that the company is absolutely not in liquidation and that we are confident that our customers will not be affected by this procedure. 

Best regards, ""


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## elephant-19210 (Apr 22, 2018)

That's sort of predictable. The DxO film simulation was ok when released years ago but for the last 2-3 years seems to be losing the market to more beautiful things like RNI for Lightroom and Capture One and VSСО.


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## Don Haines (Apr 22, 2018)

It is also possible that this is a renegotiate-the-debt move. 

Only time will tell.....


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## Chaitanya (Apr 22, 2018)

Not a good sign that Lightroom might be missing another competitor(Apple killed of its Aperture) which might mean Adobe will slack off even more and be more appaling.


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## Talys (Apr 22, 2018)

Chaitanya said:


> Not a good sign that Lightroom might be missing another competitor(Apple killed of its Aperture) which might mean Adobe will slack off even more and be more appaling.



In my opinion, Adobe is like Canon in that it simply moves at its own pace, mindful of the competition, but just doing its own thing both in pricing and featureset.

Personally, I have been happy with Adobe's recent direction and their Lightroom product. The $10/month PS/LR is a deal and a half for me as I have a few PCs that I want to use both on.


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## AlanF (Apr 22, 2018)

DxO PhotoLab is a unique product and quite different from LR or PS. Its PRIME noise reduction beats every other noise reduction software. I use it as my RAW converter and then use PS for advanced processing. It squeezes more detail out of my images than DPP and Adobe can, and in addition enabling me to use my 5DSR at iso6400 and pushing a few more ev.


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## AvTvM (Apr 22, 2018)

hehehehe! i like ... 8)


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 22, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> hehehehe! i like ... 8)



Why? Customers potentially losing their choices. Employees potentially losing their jobs. Sounds good to you, does it?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 22, 2018)

Talys said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Not a good sign that Lightroom might be missing another competitor(Apple killed of its Aperture) which might mean Adobe will slack off even more and be more appaling.
> ...



You can only install on two pc's, unless you purchase more than one subscription. I have 5 pc's that I'd like to install it on, because I occasionally might use it on a different one, but I am limited to two. The mobile version is not limited.


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## AvTvM (Apr 22, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > hehehehe! i like ... 8)
> ...



yes. Stupid company. Phony all the way. From start to end. Deserves to go under. Employees ? Their problem. They decided to work for a whacko company ... I did not force them. Those who are any good will find new jobs, the others ... their problem. lol


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## AlanF (Apr 22, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



What a callous post.


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## AvTvM (Apr 22, 2018)

YES, i am 100% callous vs. companies like flickr. F' them all! I loved my ass off when Kodak went down. When Nokia went down. Will rejoice when Adobe finally swims goes belly-up. And maybe I will even live to see stupid Canon go down. Will love laugh very hard then. 
From the bottom of my heart. 
;D 8)


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## Talys (Apr 22, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



You can actually install it on as many PCs as you want, but only 2 can be activated at once. It asks you which one you want to deactivate in a process that's painless if you have Internet, when you want to run it on the third (or sixth, or whatever). 

It works really well for my home situation, where I don't need InDesign/Illustrator/etc. because mostly, it's 1 desktop I always use, and 5 or so laptops/tablets that very infrequently run Lightroom or PS on. For example, my Pixma is in a different room, and I just take my laptop there to print when I want to do that, but otherwise, I never run LR on my SB. I have LR/PS on 3 different Surface Pro's (SP3, 4, and current), but since they're so similar, I will usually just grab whatever is close and stuff it in my bag without wondering "Does this have Photoshop". Not like I usually use it anyways, but I want it there in case.


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## canon1dxman (Apr 22, 2018)

I expect Nikon will rescue them..........


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## unfocused (Apr 22, 2018)

Talys said:


> You can actually install it on as many PCs as you want, but only 2 can be activated at once. It asks you which one you want to deactivate in a process that's painless if you have Internet, when you want to run it on the third (or sixth, or whatever).
> 
> It works really well for my home situation, where I don't need InDesign/Illustrator/etc. because mostly, it's 1 desktop I always use..



I do wish that you could mix and match the individual programs (Have Photoshop loaded on two PCs and then have InDesign or Dreamweaver on a third PC.) Unfortunately, it's all or nothing on each PC. Not a big deal, but more of a minor quibble.


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## IglooEater (Apr 23, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > hehehehe! i like ... 8)
> ...



Agreed. My dislike for DXO is well enough known, but a company having financial troubles is good for almost no one.


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## IglooEater (Apr 23, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> YES, i am 100% callous vs. companies like flickr. F' them all! I loved my ass off when Kodak went down. When Nokia went down. Will rejoice when Adobe finally swims goes belly-up. And maybe I will even live to see stupid Canon go down. Will love laugh very hard then.
> From the bottom of my heart.
> ;D 8)



That’s not a terribly winsome approach - I hope you realize why your more cogent less offensive arguments are not generally well received... :


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 23, 2018)

Talys said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
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> > Talys said:
> ...



Thanks for the info.

I had tried in the past, but apparently did not go far enough. My computers are in different buildings, so I did not want to go back and forth.

I found this explanation, so I may try it next time I want to use a additional machine like my laptop for travel.

Another key benefit with Creative Cloud is that it does not use serial numbers like CS did – instead, you activate CC _by logging in_ with your Adobe ID, thereby providing the ability to more flexibly manage your usage. So if you install the CC apps onto a third computer, it will ask you if you want to automati­cally deactivate the other two… Just hit “Continue” at the _Maximum Activations Exceeded_ box, and it will handle activation of your new system and deactivation of the others for you. Afterwards, you can reactivate again on one additional machine. This can be useful if you’re moving around between computers, or if one of your earlier systems crashed, or if the software is otherwise inaccessible.


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## JMZawodny (Apr 23, 2018)

I hope they emerge in one piece. DxO PL (formerly DxO Optics Pro) is SW I use on almost every photo I take. I would hate to find a replacement, because I do not think one exists.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 23, 2018)

JMZawodny said:


> I hope they emerge in one piece. DxO PL (formerly DxO Optics Pro) is SW I use on almost every photo I take. I would hate to find a replacement, because I do not think one exists.



You can be pretty sure that you are safe, but updates might not happen or be delayed while they get reorganized or sold.


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## Talys (Apr 23, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> JMZawodny said:
> 
> 
> > I hope they emerge in one piece. DxO PL (formerly DxO Optics Pro) is SW I use on almost every photo I take. I would hate to find a replacement, because I do not think one exists.
> ...



The uncertainty kind of sucks -- support for new equipment, from lenses to camera bodies, and especially new RAW formats. For example, CR3 support.

As AlanF said, DXO has an excellent high ISO algorithm, highly desirable on my 80D (though I don't use it very often enough at high ISO). I hope they make it in one piece.

Not to turn this into a controversial thread about subscription software from an ownership standpoint, but as a developer in the software industry, this is one of the reasons that subscriptions are highly valued, often more so than repeating and higher one-time revenue streams: knowing how much you're going to get each month, having reliable revenue, and not being at the mercy of the success of your next release makes it much easier to forecast revenues and avoid catastrophic problems.


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## dpc (Apr 23, 2018)

Talys said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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> 
> > JMZawodny said:
> ...




A point well taken. I'm constitutionally averse to software subscription services. However, I might be able to force myself into subscribing to PhotoLab should it ever come to that, depending on price. I can't say that about Lightroom which I did use for many years. I find Photolab much better for my purposes. If things really turn turtle, I do have ON1 Photo Raw 2018, Luminar and Affinity Photo to fall back on since I own them all. Still, I use PhotoLab more consistently and generally prefer it. I suppose this really is an exampe of a first world problem.


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## RGF (Apr 23, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> YES, i am 100% callous vs. companies like flickr. F' them all! I loved my ass off when Kodak went down. When Nokia went down. Will rejoice when Adobe finally swims goes belly-up. And maybe I will even live to see stupid Canon go down. Will love laugh very hard then.
> From the bottom of my heart.
> ;D 8)



I guess you have never been part of a company that went belly up. Having been through this once (which is more than enough for a person), it is gut wrenching. Destroys your world, at least for a while.


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## mppix (Apr 23, 2018)

Talys said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Not a good sign that Lightroom might be missing another competitor(Apple killed of its Aperture) which might mean Adobe will slack off even more and be more appaling.
> ...



Like Canon, Adobe pretty much owns their market and play from a position of strength. In the long run, i don't see any paid software as meaningful competition. Lightroom is simply everywhere but open-source solutions such as Darktable or RAWtherapee may improve sufficiently to merit serious consideration.


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## Kyosato (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi everyone,

Being French, and having friends who worked within this company, I felt concerned and touched when I read this news in my magazine "Chasseur d'Images". I am a long time user as well, since the version 5, back in 2008...I hoped for a long time now that they could replace lightroom, as I am completely and definitely allergic to its UI and ergonomics.

As far as Business Decisions go, they wasted a lot of money with the DxO one, in the Intellectual Property of the connector used, and in the licensing from Apple. I never saw this camera in the field, and a basic marketing study would have told them that targeting apple users who were thought of willing to pay a premium to get better pictures was a mistake. The value proposition of Apple is one integrated product (which has always been in Apple DNA, without needing to buy something else), not two or three... The quality of the camera is not in question, it is very good, but so was the samsung NX1, brutally innovative in 2014 and barely equaled now 4 years later. The quality of the embedded camera in the iphones are increasing, and having to bring along another piece of gear is not practical. I am really not a Apple fan, but to be trivial I think that they tried to make a Apple product, with a PC mindset.... 

They should focus on their core business to strengthen their position, and now they might lack resources to do so. IMHO they are halfway of making a completely mature product. DxO PL is a fantastic piece of software, the light and exposition algorithm are top-notch, the Prime noise removal algorithm is great (beware of the tuning though), and no other soft can bring up shadows like DxO. The "clearview" is impressive too. But they lack serious colour management and ICC profile management. I didn't care before, but since I bought a second hand epson 7900 and some ink and paper, I focus on the colour management and keeping as much information as I can until the final data transmission to the printer driver. I found out that DxO use a in-house colour space for their processing, and you can't change it. This colour space is very close, if identical, to AdobeRGB. Good but not satisfactory since latest camera can capture more colours than AdobeRGB, and some large gamut printer (such as the epson 7900) have not tiny portions of their gamut outside Adobe RGB. You can save your work in Tiff16 bits with ProPhotoRGB out of DxO, but it is essentially AdobeRGB work save in the prophoto RGB colour space...useless. No big deal in real life, but intellectually limiting i think.
The print module is promising but not totally a finished product for me. A serious soft proofing approach would be a nice addition (comparing profiles and rendering for web, smartphones, papers...). Lightroom does not offer a satisfactory solution either as far as I know.

I would like to be able to digitally review, analyze, and import files. For me I really lack a serious editing software. I mean a serious review/selection and then catalog tool when you import tons of pictures. I want better analytic with the files : being able to measure the dynamic of the files, the acutance/definition, and select only the best one in a burst sequence for example.

For me they should focus on the software and productivity tools, and leverage their noise, light, exposition, clearview, and details/sharpening algorithm to the video segment. Develop a plugin for premiere or vegas, or a light app that can improve video taken with smartphones.

I don't think the solution will die, the product is too mature to be ditched, and has promising assets. But these assets have a limited lifespan...left alone, they won't be competitive anymore in a few months... They need to invest serious money in algorithms and AI. Simplify algorithms to use them in video and smartphones, expand their coverage outside the bayer matrix sensor family (welcome fuji, and other sensors, such as achromatic sensors like leica monochrom, or IQ3). It is not acceptable let down an entire part of the market. They should expand their market : down with the smartphones photo enhancing (maybe licence some tech with instagram...), and up with studio capabilities (better handling of Medium format raw files, offer tethered shooting capabilities which is no big deal to make). AI is a big subject too. Some friends of mine at Adobe are telling me their Sensei AI engine is really showing tremendous potential and they could let the competition miles behind in the next generation of software. But every software company needs to invest in AI, not only DxO.

If I win the national lottery, I would gladly buy the company (I am dreaming) !!

DxO people : stay strong and keep up the good work !


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## keithcooper (Apr 23, 2018)

*Moving onwards...*

First up, I wish all the DxO people I've had dealings with over the years all the best...

As someone who's written reviews of every single version of DxO Optics Pro (and now PL) - including the very first JPEG only version in March 2004 (yes really, no RAW) I really do hope this works out for them.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/fixing-your-lens-imperfections/

(one of my oldest reviews ;-)

It's still my RAW converter of choice when making large prints and I'm keen to see what they can do with the Nik plugins.

Perhaps the fact that it only ever was my converter of choice points to a basic weakness in the image processing market today? 

I was asked to test the DxO One when it first came out, but my iPhone was (and still is) too old :-(


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## AlanF (Apr 23, 2018)

Canon should buy DxO PhotoLab, incorporate it into DPP and have software that is far superior to any other company's.


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## Don Haines (Apr 23, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Canon should buy DxO PhotoLab, incorporate it into DPP and have software that is far superior to any other company's.



Now there is a good idea!!!!!


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## BillB (Apr 23, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Canon should buy DxO PhotoLab, incorporate it into DPP and have software that is far superior to any other company's.
> ...



As long as Canon doesn't raise the price for DPP.


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## Click (Apr 23, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Canon should buy DxO PhotoLab, incorporate it into DPP and have software that is far superior to any other company's.
> ...



+1


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## Steve Balcombe (Apr 23, 2018)

Click said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > AlanF said:
> ...



+another


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## Orangutan (Apr 23, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Canon should buy DxO PhotoLab, incorporate it into DPP and have software that is far superior to any other company's.


I would like them to do so, but I don't know that the cost-benefit would work out for them.


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## Valvebounce (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi Alan. 
If Canon buy DxO do they limit it to Canon cameras, or do they then support all cameras with DPP? 
Isn’t DPP superior to some if not all of the other camera manufacturer’s offerings already? And it is free! 
What if Nikon or Sony buy DxO and limit it to their cameras, how do we all feel then? 
Are we sure DxO Labs is up for sale, or is this speculation based on them being in whatever this French situation is equivalent to bearing in mind we have had some information that it is not actually ‘receivership’ as such? 

Cheers, Graham. 



AlanF said:


> Canon should buy DxO PhotoLab, incorporate it into DPP and have software that is far superior to any other company's.


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## cayenne (Apr 23, 2018)

mppix said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



So far, I"m finding On1 RAW 2018 to be a VERY viable alternative to LR....without the subscription burden. 
They seem to be offering quite a few upgrades/updates for free so far this year too.

They have a 30 day trial....give it a shot.

I really like the luminosity masks and other masking tools for working in RAW files...neat stuff.

cayenne


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## AlanF (Apr 23, 2018)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Alan.
> If Canon buy DxO do they limit it to Canon cameras, or do they then support all cameras with DPP?
> Isn’t DPP superior to some if not all of the other camera manufacturer’s offerings already? And it is free!
> What if Nikon or Sony buy DxO and limit it to their cameras, how do we all feel then?
> ...



Buy it, restrict it to Canon only and provide for free.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 23, 2018)

RGF said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > YES, i am 100% callous vs. companies like flickr. F' them all! I loved my ass off when Kodak went down. When Nokia went down. Will rejoice when Adobe finally swims goes belly-up. And maybe I will even live to see stupid Canon go down. Will love laugh very hard then.
> ...



Depending on the country and the laws, employees can lose retirement plans, their job, of course, their medical insurance, and all that goes with those losses. Their families suffer as well. Its not a pretty thought.

I suspect that the company will re-emerge, I think that they have something like Chapter 11 where all debts are cancelled and the company is acquired by the banks and resold. It becomes a strong company because they have income and no debts, except likely money owed to maintain pensions. The creditors and owners are the ones who lose. DXO is privately held, so there are no shareholders to lose their investment.


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## Djaaf (Apr 23, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Depending on the country and the laws, employees can lose retirement plans, their job, of course, their medical insurance, and all that goes with those losses. Their families suffer as well. Its not a pretty thought.



Well... They're a french company, so retirement plans and medical insurance are covered by the State. Unemployment benefits is decent when fired because the company failed. It's not ideal, and it's difficult (benefits are set at around 60% of last salary for up to two years or something like that) but it should be survivable for most of the employees (admin staff over 50 may have a rough time ahead though). 

After that,for the moment, they have been put under judicial administration. A judge will look at the company and decide if it's salvageable. If it is, he'll help them restructure their debts,etc... If it's not, he will put the company's asset in an auction to reimburse the creditors. We'll know in a few months.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 24, 2018)

Djaaf said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Depending on the country and the laws, employees can lose retirement plans, their job, of course, their medical insurance, and all that goes with those losses. Their families suffer as well. Its not a pretty thought.
> ...



There is very little information about what is going on, I saw one comment that a offer had been made to reorganize them, presumably someone with money to pay the bills. 

The French do have lots of Social protection for Employees, there have been suggestions to reduce it, but those are extremely unpopular. Of course, the Government does not print money to provide it, it comes from taxes on businesses. That makes it difficult for them to compete, and then they need Government support or they fail. I doubt that DXO was or will get Government support.


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## epsiloneri (Apr 24, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Buy it, restrict it to Canon only and provide for free.


So you don't care for, e.g., sigma lens corrections?


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## DxOMark Image Labs (Apr 24, 2018)

Hi,

I am writing to you on behalf of DxOMark Image Labs. Posting a clarification here about our company in view of recent events. 

DxOMark Image Labs was spun off from DxO Labs in September 2017. It has been ever since a privately-owned, 100% independent company with a new CEO. We have no links with DxO Labs in terms of ownership anymore. Therefore, the current judicial proceedings with DxO Labs have no impact on our activities including the image quality benchmark DxOMark.

Sincerely,
The DxOMark Image Labs  team


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## snoke (Apr 24, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> It becomes a strong company because they have income and no debts, except likely money owed to maintain pensions.



Only USA have pension like this. Europe has government pension.


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## Pure Photo N.I (Apr 24, 2018)

Wonder if this means that Nik will dissapear


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## AlanF (Apr 24, 2018)

snoke said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > It becomes a strong company because they have income and no debts, except likely money owed to maintain pensions.
> ...



Civil servants, school teachers and state employees have government pensions but most in the UK have private pension schemes.


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## LDS (Apr 24, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The French do have lots of Social protection for Employees, there have been suggestions to reduce it, but those are extremely unpopular. Of course, the Government does not print money to provide it, it comes from taxes on businesses. That makes it difficult for them to compete, and then they need Government support or they fail. I doubt that DXO was or will get Government support.



Germany corporate taxes are only slightly below the French one, and German companies are highly competitive, with an outstanding trade surplus.

Most of the money anyway come from income taxes and VAT (it's 20% in France), not corporate ones.

Still in most Western European countries you don't lose healthcare if you lose your job, nor pension funds are usually managed by the companies themselves - still, you have to reach the retirement age, and without a job your pension may not reach a decent monthly sum.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 24, 2018)

DxOMark Image Labs said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am writing to you on behalf of DxOMark Image Labs. Posting a clarification here about our company in view of recent events.
> 
> ...



Thats my understanding, but the owners are likely the same. Apparently, the split was done quitely and not announced right away.

Usually when splits are done like that and then one of the units defaults, it looks very suspicious.

I wonder if the owners will end up in court.

Most of us here are concerned about the image editing software, DXO Photolab. Its seen as a option to Adobe Lightroom and many own it. Obviously, no firm guarantee that it will continue to be updated can be made.

DXOMark is not something that consumers purchase, and is not of great value to most of us.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 24, 2018)

Pure Photo N.I said:


> Wonder if this means that Nik will dissapear



As of now, no one knows for sure what is going to happen, I predict that, since DXO Photolab is a valuable asset, that at worst (or best), it will be purchased and continue to be developed along with Nik.

Obviously, its a concern for purchasers, but the software will not go away.


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## Talys (Apr 24, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> DXOMark is not something that consumers purchase, and is not of great value to most of us.



And here, I thought that DXOMark scores were how everyone here figured out what gear to buy next! :


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## Kyosato (Apr 24, 2018)

Wow a lot of BS and even some trolling going on...

French Gov can help by delaying taxes to the company or suspend loans monthly payment or even provide financial assistance and recapitalization if needed. 

Being "en redressement" doesn't mean bankruptcy, it means that there an administrator nominated to help the company deals with difficulties, paying suppliers, and managing the projects. This admin has the final cut on the decisions. Most of the time there is a reduction of the scope, or the ending of deficit-making products/projects, and a centering on the most profitable business activities.
Again, I strongly suspect the DxO One to be a total fiasco, and the main cause of cash loss. Creating such a new device required to invest massively in the ecosystem. I surely lack information, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see very soon the end of DxO One program.

Currently I manage tech business, product and system engineering projects, and provide consulting to companies. The moment I saw the product, it screamed "Waaaaste" of money/time. Iphone marketshare has been shrinking for years, and the photo quality has increased tremendously (Dxomark was the first to embrace this reality, and began testing smartphones...was it not a hint??) I really love the company, I strongly support the softwares. Again, it's not because I am not a client of a product that it won't have success, but still, never saw a DxO one in real...never.

For now this is the first step for a company that is in bad shape, "redressement", if it fails (meaning can't pay anyone but the employee) it's default, then "liquidation judiciaire" at the very end. The french law is made to protect the employees and the business, AND the capacity of the company to pay tax...off course


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## Talys (Apr 24, 2018)

Kyosato said:


> Being "en redressement" doesn't mean bankruptcy, it means that there an administrator nominated to help the company deals with difficulties, paying suppliers, and managing the projects. This admin has the final cut on the decisions.



In Canada and the United States, this is called receivership. It is common when a company files for protection under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, which allows/requests courts to restructure or eliminate debts. It isn't bankruptcy (because insolvency means you're out of business); but rather, an attempt to avoid it, and almost always means that creditors won't get paid according to the original terms.

Because otherwise, the company wouldn't need the court-appointed trustee/administrator


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## unfocused (Apr 24, 2018)

I'm thinking this is why, when companies split up, it's a good idea to change your name.


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## Talys (Apr 25, 2018)

unfocused said:


> I'm thinking this is why, when companies split up, it's a good idea to change your name.



Since the company with the raw editor got the dxo.com domain... Maybe XDOMark? XODMark? Mabye OxOMark... or X.XMark! 

I know... rngMark!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 25, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The photography shakeups are coming. SmugMug buys Flickr, DXO Labs is in trouble, Which camera company will be next.



Casio is next! https://www.dpreview.com/news/6979454311/report-casio-is-pulling-out-of-digital-compact-camera-market


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## Talys (Apr 25, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > The photography shakeups are coming. SmugMug buys Flickr, DXO Labs is in trouble, Which camera company will be next.
> ...



Huh. I guess I was not alone walking down Best Buy wondering, who bought Casio cameras :-\

It is a pity, because I always liked them as an electronics gadget company as a kid. My first digital watch!


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## stevelee (Apr 25, 2018)

Talys said:


> Huh. I guess I was not alone walking down Best Buy wondering, who bought Casio cameras :-\
> 
> It is a pity, because I always liked them as an electronics gadget company as a kid. My first digital watch!



I've worn their watches and still use their calculators. For a basic calculator with scientific functions, theirs deals with normal algebraic notation and precedence like I expect them to.

My first digital camera was a Casio. They were experimenting with trying to make a little more high-end camera, so they made one with a Canon lens. It got excellent reviews. I bought it before my Alaska cruise in 2002. I saw a review that compared five, I think, cameras of the period. The Casio was rated as good as any, even though the others were much more expensive. It was already sort of in closeout mode by the time I got mine. They threw in an IBM hard drive that fit the card slot, needed since memory was so much more expensive then. It took not quite 4 megapixel photos. I have a picture I took with it of the Grand Pacific Glacier on my wall in a 13" x 19" print. It looks great. In theory, I know that it shouldn't hold up that well enlarged that much, but it does.

I think they found that the Casio name was associated with cheap gadgets and so didn't get the respect they needed to do higher-end stuff. I can understand why their class of cameras would not appeal to much of anybody now that cell phone cameras are so decent. 

I recently decided to make prints of three of my Hawaii pictures to put up in my front room, where they would fit the décor. I went to find the original RAW files of the pictures so I could make good versions for printing. I couldn't find one of them, and discovered the original JPEG in the folder of the few iPhone pictures I made during the trip. So I now have on the wall an enlargement of a picture I made with my iPhone 6S. It looks like you are looking out the window at the beach. I made the other two pictures with my G7X II.


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## Talys (Apr 28, 2018)

DXO has sent me a couple of emails in the last few days with special offers =X

"Give your mom some live wit [sic] DxO!"

Mother's Day Special Offer....

_Really?_ Oddly, it also ends May 2, which is like, a week an half before Mother's Day...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 29, 2018)

Its interesting to see how Canon Rumors is picked up by the photo sites, and how most of them trust what they read. Do a online search for DXO Bankruptcy!

When the OP (Mikehit) originally posted the article, I followed the links he gave and posted some translations of what I found. I also sent a email to CR Guy asking him if he knew what was happening. He was nice enough to reply that he had heard nothing but had read this thread, and then he posted it on the front page.

Now, you can find the news on all the major photo sites, all leading back to this one post by Mikehit. Even DXO posted here to try and clarify the split into companies and that only one was affected.

Just saying ... Your posts are powerful and read everywhere, and often repeated. CR Guy is pretty careful, even about rumors, he has earned his respect.


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## dpc (Apr 29, 2018)

I see DxO has announced a free update to Photolab coming in June, release of the first version of DxO branded NIK in June and have stated their commitment to perpetual licensing. Let’s hope all goes well. Saw it on Photo Rumors this morning.


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