# Advice on 1st flash



## dks14 (May 14, 2013)

Im looking to purchase my first flash unit and looking for help and suggestions. I currently own a canon 60d, 17-85mm ,50mm and the 75-300mm. I mostly do travel and outdoor photography and I'm not 100 percent sure how i want to us the flash yet, I just know I hate the pop up flash. My price point is right about 275, so that would be enough for the 430ex II new. And I was looking for thoughts and opinions on if looking at older used ex flashes would be useful. Want to get the best bang for the buck but also get I flash i will not out grow to fast. Thanks for the imput


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## Wildfire (May 14, 2013)

The 430EX II is an excellent first flash. It has Canon build quality and reliability, TTL, zoom, decent power, and quick recycle. If you become a professional shooter and need a more powerful flash in the future, you can still keep it and use it as a slave to a 580EX, 600EX, or Phottix Mitros.

The 430EX II will last as long (probably longer) than your camera body and you'll find constant use out of it.


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## Menace (May 15, 2013)

Wildfire said:


> The 430EX II is an excellent first flash. It has Canon build quality and reliability, TTL, zoom, decent power, and quick recycle. If you become a professional shooter and need a more powerful flash in the future, you can still keep it and use it as a slave to a 580EX, 600EX, or Phottix Mitros.
> 
> The 430EX II will last as long (probably longer) than your camera body and you'll find constant use out of it.



+1

With travel or street photography / people, the 430 can be used us fill flash as well as opening up shooting options in low light.

Cheers


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## bseitz234 (May 15, 2013)

Another +1 on the 430. For all the already-mentioned reasons. 

It was my first flash, I learned a lot, then got a 580 to act as a master so I could avoid the popup all together, now contemplating another 430 since they're only $203 in the canon refurb store (which is where I got my first one, for all intents an purposes new.)


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## unfocused (May 15, 2013)

If you are in the U.S. you can get the 430 EX II refurbished from the Canon Store right now for $204. Or you can buy it new for $259. It's a great flash and the main practical difference from the 580 EXII is that you can't plug a battery pack into it.

Eventually, if you really get into flash, you will want that option, but when you reach that point, you can probably sell the 430EX II for not much less than you paid for it. 

The other primary drawback is that it uses the optical trigger slave function (like the 580 EXII) instead of being a radio slave (like the 600 EX RT). Again, eventually you may want that function, but initially you won't miss it. The 60D can be used as a flash controller, so you can experiment with off camera flash with the 430 EX II. 

A word of caution though, it is a "gateway drug" to Speedlite dependency. Once you get started down that path, there is very little hope of turning back and one day you will wake up and find yourself in bed with four or five 600 EX RTs.


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## albron00 (May 15, 2013)

I use 430EX II with my 7D.
Satisfied.


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## neuroanatomist (May 15, 2013)

unfocused said:


> A word of caution though, it is a "gateway drug" to Speedlite dependency. Once you get started down that path, there is very little hope of turning back and one day you will wake up and find yourself in bed with four or five 600 EX RTs.



I started with a 430EX II, an excellent flash (my initial kit was the T1i/500D, 17-55/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, and the 430. Used the 430 with my T1i/500D, then my 7D, then my 5DII. I eventually added a second 430, then a 600EX-RT. Then I sold the 430's, bought two more 600's and an ST-E3-RT. Gateway drug, indeed. 

Side note - get yourself a set of eneloops for the flash.


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## STEMI_RN (May 15, 2013)

More love for the 430 EX II. I started with a 430 EX, when it died I considered moving up to a 580 or a 600, but couldn't justify the price (I do very little off camera flash). And with my 60D I can fire it as a off camera slave anyway. For the price, it's got great power, great flexibility, and great quality.


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## thelebaron (May 15, 2013)

Also looking for one soonish. Should I be worried about buying a used flash? Is there a way to check its lifespan like the shuttercount on a camera?


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## tntwit (May 15, 2013)

I have the 430 on my personal camera and we have one I use on our work camera as well (both T3i).

Very satisfied with it. I've played around a bit with using it off camera at home and at work. Definitely trial and error with the results, but it is a really nice option to have. They give you a little plastic base to mount the flash on when using it off camera. Combined with being able to twist the head left or right as well as rotating it upward, it gives you many options.

The only other flash I can compare it to is the Vivitar on my old T70, but nonetheless, I like it very much.

If you've never used an external flash, I think you'll be pleased with the results compared to the pop up flash. The T70 did not have a built in flash and I always thought it would be so nice to have the option of not carrying around the external flash. My 300D had the built in flash and I used it that way for 7 years before I bought the T3i and then used that for another couple of months before buying the 430 because I thought I didn't need it. Now that I have it, I almost never use the built in flash. I now don't see the lack of a built in flash on the bigger bodies as a drawback because I much prefer the external flash regardless of size. It just produces better results and the recycle times is much faster than the built in.

For what it's worth, my co-worker has been around photography along time (not a pro but an active participant in the local photography club which recently hosted a convention in Niagara Falls), and he was the one that picked out the flash after comparing it to the other Canon flashes and considering our needs (our company produces large industrial furnaces that we photograph - up to 60 ft long - mostly for use in manuals and other uses).

I'm sure the 580 and 600 are even nicer, but I don't think you'll be disappointed with the 430.

I for one would rather have that then a used unit unless you could feel really confident in what you were buying.


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## smithy (May 15, 2013)

I'll throw in my 10 cents with the Yongnuo YN-568EX. Its specs are more in line with Canon's 580EX. It has good build quality, supports E-TTL II and HSS, and I haven't had any issues with reliability (I have used it for quite a few shoots now). On ebay you can pick it up for $168 inc shipping.

By all means, if you'd rather stick with Canon then I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the 430EX II.


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## SithTracy (May 15, 2013)

I have a 600EX-RT, 430 EX II, and Yongnuo YN568EX. All good, but I mostly do off camera. If you are going with on camera, and on a budget, the 430 EX II is the best choice to start with. While I like the Yongnuo, I find the AF assist beam to be hit/miss (with more miss) and not even close to the center AF point. My two cents on Yongnuo is they are best for off camera work. But they are workhorses and usable. It is just the 430 EX II is a better choice for the first speedlite. Best of luck.


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## Drum (May 15, 2013)

I was in the same position as yourself up to a couple of weeks ago and seriously considered the 430 as the best flash I could buy, I borrowed one from a friend and found it great and just what I needed, however I bought 2 Yongnuo 565's for the same price and am even happier. the functionality is the same as the 430, the head swivels and tilts exactly the same, it fires and can be controlled from my 60d menu and the ettl works perfectly, the only difference is that I have 2 flashes for the price of the canon 430 ex .I would recommend giving the Yongnuo's serious consideration.


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## Wildfire (May 16, 2013)

SithTracy said:


> I have a 600EX-RT, 430 EX II, and Yongnuo YN568EX. All good, but I mostly do off camera. If you are going with on camera, and on a budget, the 430 EX II is the best choice to start with. While I like the Yongnuo, I find the AF assist beam to be hit/miss (with more miss) and not even close to the center AF point. My two cents on Yongnuo is they are best for off camera work. But they are workhorses and usable. It is just the 430 EX II is a better choice for the first speedlite. Best of luck.



I agree. I have a couple of Yongnuo YN560s and they are great manual flashes. I also wouldn't hesitate to buy one or two YN565/YN568s instead of a second Canon flash, but I would definitely get the Canon as a first flash. It's less likely to have problems with current and future DSLR bodies and the warranty is there if you ever need it fixed. (Yongnuo offers a comparable warranty on their own flashes but there is no service center in the USA -- you'll have to ship it to China for repair/replacement!)


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## AudioGlenn (May 17, 2013)

I have a 430 ex ii, a 600 EX-rt, and a yongnuo, purchased in that order. I'd go with the yongnuos for biggest bang for your buck. I have the manual only one though (yongnuo) since I use flashes in manual mode most of the time. I do like the 600-ex-rt (for the power) if I'm only using one flash and/or if I want to use it in ETTL.


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## dgatwood (May 23, 2013)

Looks like I'm gonna be the one expressing the contrary opinion. Save your money and buy a 580 EX II. I've found that when I need to use the flash, for about 80–90% of shots, I use the built-in bounce card; the softer, less direct light makes for better close photography. I really can't imagine trying to use a flash that lacks that feature.


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## paul13walnut5 (May 23, 2013)

I have lenses by Sigma, Tokina, batteries by energiser, calumet.

I will only ever have a speedlite flash by canon.

Why? Heres why:

Ease of use. A novice can clip it on, switch it on and get decent results.

Integration with camera menu. Including custom functions etc.

Easy Wireless control where supported.

Flash modelling preview.

Works properly wirh e-ttl pre-flash metering.

Works properly in hss mode.

Works properly in 2nd curtain mode.

Zooms with your lens correctly, even taking account of sensor.

Decent Af assist.

Future compatability with your next canon slr.

A cheap flash is like a cheap tripod. Fine for very very occassionnal use with low expectations, a false economy uf you are in anyway harnessing the power of flash.

I have a 430ex and it's a good balance of size weight power features and cost.

I could sell it for around 60% of what I paid for it 6 years ago, my 6 year old body would get around 20% of its original value.

Don't get me wrong, I also have a cheap fully manual ring flash which gives me great results within it's design specifications and intended purpose, but if you want a speedlite you really want canon.


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## M.ST (May 23, 2013)

The 430EX II is an excellent first flash for your camera. The 580EX II or 600EX is too big for your camera.


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## smithy (May 23, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I have lenses by Sigma, Tokina, batteries by energiser, calumet.
> 
> I will only ever have a speedlite flash by canon.
> 
> Why? Heres why:


The odd thing is that my inexpensive Yongnuo flash has all of those things on your list... obviously there's no guarantee it'll work on future bodies, but I doubt Canon would completely change their flash system to deliberately trip up 3rd party manufacturers. They'd have to release firmware upgrades for their entire back catalogue of digital camera bodies to support the new system too, which would be costly.

However, there is no doubt that a 430EX II would make a *superb* first camera flash, and for US$259 (in the USA), why not? In my country the 430EX costs more than US$400, which is why I chose the Yongnuo ($180).


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## axtstern (May 23, 2013)

To confuse you more:

Go for the Nissin DI 866 Mark II 

Power like the Canon 580, price like the 430, 
Again the remote system is optical and not radio but it is a master flash.
Your 60D works as a master but if you ever enlarge your system the pop up flash will overheat very fast.

I use the Nissin as my primary unit if I travel with more than one flash, the 430 if I travel with just one and if size matters, finaly I ad my Yongnuo to the 430 if I need 2 slaves.
They all work very nice together and all three can be configured from your camera menu

Consider to buy a 1m spiral connector cable to be able to use your flash away from the optical axis.

You can cut some money from the Nissin by buying a Mark I but than you have a flash that sounds like a dying escalator whenever it zooms and have to live with a plastic feet instead of metal.


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## paul13walnut5 (May 23, 2013)

smithy said:


> The odd thing is that my inexpensive Yongnuo flash has all of those things on your list... obviously there's no guarantee it'll work on future bodies, but I doubt Canon would completely change their flash system to deliberately trip up 3rd party manufacturers. They'd have to release firmware upgrades for their entire back catalogue of digital camera bodies to support the new system too, which would be costly.



That is really odd. Thats it! I'm going to burn my 430EX!

Good luck with your yongnuo, health to use it mate. It's not like E-TTL-II rendered a lot of third party lenses dead or anything is it? Canon would change the firmware, or activate extra features in a heartbeat without a thought for yongnuo.

Good luck also if you ever come to sell your yongnuo too.

I've never used them, never will, and so cannot recommend them.


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## smithy (May 23, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> smithy said:
> 
> 
> > The odd thing is that my inexpensive Yongnuo flash has all of those things on your list... obviously there's no guarantee it'll work on future bodies, but I doubt Canon would completely change their flash system to deliberately trip up 3rd party manufacturers. They'd have to release firmware upgrades for their entire back catalogue of digital camera bodies to support the new system too, which would be costly.
> ...


Haha don't burn your 430EX! As I said in the rest of my post, my choice was financial. If I bought a 430EX for $400 and sold it for 60% of what I paid for it, I still would have lost $160. My Yongnuo was $180 new, so I think we can consider it disposable...


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## jcollett (May 23, 2013)

Well it would have been a no-brainer on this in the past. I would have sent you to Midwest Photo Exchange to pick up a LumoPro LP-160. Unfortunately, this flash is now discontinued and the next version has yet to be released to the public. You could try to find someone who would part with a working one, but you would be hard pressed to do so as they are extremely versatile.


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## RLPhoto (May 23, 2013)

430II is a good start to learn the basic's about on camera flash.


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## adhocphotographer (May 24, 2013)

430 EX II is a great flash... grab it, enjoy it... once/if you want to go off-camera, you can pick up a 580 or 600...


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## Zv (May 24, 2013)

On camera 430 ex II

Off camera 600 ex rt (recommend as this is where you'll likely end up sooner or later)

Budget - Yongnuo YN 568 ex


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## Old Sarge (May 24, 2013)

smithy said:


> The odd thing is that my inexpensive Yongnuo flash has all of those things on your list... obviously there's no guarantee it'll work on future bodies, but I doubt Canon would completely change their flash system to deliberately trip up 3rd party manufacturers. They'd have to release firmware upgrades for their entire back catalogue of digital camera bodies to support the new system too, which would be costly.
> 
> However, there is no doubt that a 430EX II would make a *superb* first camera flash, and for US$259 (in the USA), why not? In my country the 430EX costs more than US$400, which is why I chose the Yongnuo ($180).


Canon doesn't have to do a complete change to their flash system to "trip up 3rd party manufacturers." With my 40D I was having excellent results with my Sigma 500 flash. Then I bought my 7D and it no longer would work. Some of the Sigma 500 flashes could be rechipped to work but mine was the older model that couldn't. I still use it with my 40D kit and it is an excellent slave flash so it wasn't a total loss. Just a demonstration that change can be incremental and my 580EX II replacement works with my wife's 30D and my 40D.

I actually intend to get a Yongnuo unit for slave purposes so I am not trying to discourage anyone from using them. Read a lot of good reports on them but people should be aware that a simple change from Canon might make them of little use in the future unless you want them as off camera slaves.


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## Northstar (May 24, 2013)

dks14 said:


> Im looking to purchase my first flash unit and looking for help and suggestions. I currently own a canon 60d, 17-85mm ,50mm and the 75-300mm. I mostly do travel and outdoor photography and I'm not 100 percent sure how i want to us the flash yet, I just know I hate the pop up flash. My price point is right about 275, so that would be enough for the 430ex II new. And I was looking for thoughts and opinions on if looking at older used ex flashes would be useful. Want to get the best bang for the buck but also get I flash i will not out grow to fast. Thanks for the imput



Another vote for the 430 exii. Great flash, and as others said, if you upgrade someday you can still use it as a slave.


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## smithy (May 24, 2013)

Old Sarge said:


> smithy said:
> 
> 
> > The odd thing is that my inexpensive Yongnuo flash has all of those things on your list... obviously there's no guarantee it'll work on future bodies, but I doubt Canon would completely change their flash system to deliberately trip up 3rd party manufacturers. They'd have to release firmware upgrades for their entire back catalogue of digital camera bodies to support the new system too, which would be costly.
> ...


You've made a very valid point. I also have the Sigma 500DG Super (purchased in 2004), but it doesn't even work on my 40D, so I've been using it off camera.

Since you're intending to get one, you'll be pleased to know that the Yongnuo is a big step up from the Sigma in terms of build quality and features.


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## paul13walnut5 (May 24, 2013)

The 430ex ii can be used off camera with the 60d wirh no accesories. Contrary to previous posts you don't need a 580 or 600 to use off camera with a 60d

I use my old 430 mk1 off camera with my 7d and 600d


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## Old Sarge (May 24, 2013)

smithy said:


> Old Sarge said:
> 
> 
> > smithy said:
> ...


If I remember correctly, always problematical at my age, I originally bought the 500DG Super for my rebel or my 20D. It worked fine on the 40D. But it failed completely on-camera with the 7D so I bought the 580EX II for a replacement. Some of the 500DG flashes could be rechipped but my didn't qualify for some reason....which escapes me now (see memory=problematical above). 

Glad to hear that the Yongnuo is better in build quality and features since I have always been very please with the build quality and features of the Sigma. You have probably helped me make up my mind to get one. But when my grand-daughter needed a flash a few years back for her "rebel" class camera (again memory fails as to model) I bought her a 430....but I tend to over indulge my kids, grand-kids, and great-grand-kids.


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## anthonyd (May 26, 2013)

I've had the 430 ex II for a few years now and I'm satisfied with its performance but _NOT_ with the buttons. They are tiny and unless you are changing the settings through the camera, it's a major pain in the butt.

I also own an ancient Sunpak flash which I always use in manual mode with Yongnuo remote triggers. It has a slider for 1/32 - 1/1 output power which you can change in a split second and it just works. Here is a picture showing it in action (at 1/32 power) through a little handheld umbrella (although the picture itself was a failure, since the subject moved way too close to the light).



and here is a more successful result with the same setup:




The point I'm trying to make here is that you can't go wrong buying an external flash. After you get used to using more than ambient light even the crappiest flash will be able to give you nice results.


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## Zv (May 26, 2013)

anthonyd said:


> I've had the 430 ex II for a few years now and I'm satisfied with its performance but _NOT_ with the buttons. They are tiny and unless you are changing the settings through the camera, it's a major pain in the butt.
> 
> I also own an ancient Sunpak flash which I always use in manual mode with Yongnuo remote triggers. It has a slider for 1/32 - 1/1 output power which you can change in a split second and it just works. Here is a picture showing it in action (at 1/32 power) through a little handheld umbrella (although the picture itself was a failure, since the subject moved way too close to the light).
> 
> ...



+1 those buttons are just idiotic! One way around it it to use a wireless ettl trigger that allows you to control the flash using the in camera menu, I use pixel kings and together they make a pretty decent and affordable combo. It's my go to flexible lighting setup. 

For portraits I prefer using manual flashes like the Yongnuo 560 II with RF 603 triggers. You can buy about 5 of these plus triggers for the price of one 600ex rt. cheap way to start out and get creative.


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## Harry Muff (Jun 14, 2013)

Another vote for the 430EX here. Good flash. Plenty powerful enough.


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## Tabor Warren Photography (Jun 14, 2013)

430EX ii. It is an great flash. I found that I liked the tilt, swivel, bounce mechanism and use it on most every shot. I also learned later that more power would be nice in many situations so I bought the 600EX-RT. As of now the 600 is way too much flash for me, it's power was useful at my last wedding since we were in an extremely dark barn with an incredibly high domed ceiling. Apart from the last situation, the 430 should work very well for you.

Cheers,
-Tabor


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## Drum (Jun 14, 2013)

I agree the 430 ex is a great flash, but I'd like to clarify a couple of points about the Yongnuo 565ex for those people who don't own one and won't accept anything but a Canon original. I can't comment about the other Yongnuo models as I only own the 565.
Firstly the 565 does have ETTL ii and it works fine both on camera and off camera.

The Flash works off camera for the 60d without any accessories (the op states its for a 60d) it uses the pop up flash and can work in ETTL or manual modes.

It has the same flash power rating of the 580exii 

The 565 reads the camera menu and states the focal length on the menu eg 24mm 50mm 85mm Correctly

The 565 is compatible with all current Canon models including the Rebels and the 5D2 and 3

The Yongnuo will also work off camera with some Nikon models ( I borrowed a friends D600 and was able to fire the flash off camera with both the D600 and the 60D without changing the settings) (I don't think the 430 is able for that)

With all respect to the people who will only ever buy Canon Flashes there are actually serious alternatives out there that may deserve consideration.


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