# Kickstarter: New Startup Launches World’s First Titanium Tripod & Ballhead



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 6, 2018)

> *New York — A new startup – Colorado Tripod Company* – today announced the world’s first titanium tripod and ballhead. “Although the process of extracting titanium from its ore is costly, designers consider it valuable enough for specialty applications such as aerospace, where its combination of strength-to-weight and corrosion resistance is unrivalled.” says mechanical engineer Nikki Gantos.
> *Learn more about the Colorado Tripod Company on Kickstarter*
> The product line features a number of improvements including a titanium hollowball that the tripod company claims will reduce the ball weight by 52%. Other highlights include ballheads with a maximized range of motion and tripods built to streamline parts and materials...



Continue reading...


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## Rockskipper (Dec 6, 2018)

I'm a proud owner of a titanium spork, but it will probably be a long long time before I'll be a proud owner of a titanium tripod, unless I somehow drastically change my work habits.


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## DtEW (Dec 6, 2018)

"*A Unique Approach to Tripod Design.*
Magnesium casting has long been the favorite process for mass production of industry leaders such as Manfrotto, Gitzo, Induro, Vanguard and many others. Compared to CNC machining, cast molding is significantly less expensive and the manufacturing time is greatly reduced."

Far from unique. Every start-up that needs to render structural parts in metal but can't afford the tooling for casting or forging (both have high start-up costs, but low material waste and per-unit costs) resorts to CNC machining (low-to-no start-up costs, i.e. can be easily outsourced, and high material waste and per-unit costs).

https://diecasting.com/blog/2018/06/05/die-casting-vs-machining/

It's like boasting about being "hand-made" when in-reality you simply don't have enough capital to mass-produce.


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## Del Paso (Dec 6, 2018)

DtEW said:


> "*A Unique Approach to Tripod Design.*
> Magnesium casting has long been the favorite process for mass production of industry leaders such as Manfrotto, Gitzo, Induro, Vanguard and many others. Compared to CNC machining, cast molding is significantly less expensive and the manufacturing time is greatly reduced."
> 
> Far from unique. Every start-up that needs to render structural parts in metal but can't afford the tooling for casting or forging (both have high start-up costs, but low material waste and per-unit costs) resorts to CNC machining (low-to-no start-up costs, i.e. can be easily outsourced, and high material waste and per-unit costs).
> ...



It's also true that CNC machining sound "sexier" than vulgar casting, yet pressure die-castings can nowadays attain an incredibly high precision.
As you wrote, tooling costs are much too high for small companies or start-ups, but no reason to discredit castings!


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## JPAZ (Dec 6, 2018)

I like my RRS legs and am accustomed to my Markens ball, but this head looks interesting. Anyone got their hands on one yet?


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## Ozarker (Dec 6, 2018)

Casting Ti is not easy at all. It has to be done in a vacuum or it will just burn up like magnesium would. CNC is much nicer anyway, IMO.


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## robinlee (Dec 6, 2018)

I am counting the days it took them deciding NOT to deliver or abandoning this.


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## RGF (Dec 6, 2018)

Prices look very optimistic.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Dec 6, 2018)

All I want is a ballhead with fluid dampening. Somebody find a way to make it happen. I'll throw money at you.


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## tmroper (Dec 6, 2018)

I own a titanium bike frame, and while it is light and strong, the tubing also dents rather easily. Which isn't a huge problem for a bike if you baby it (and try not to crash too much), but could be for a tripod. Carbon fiber's just better all around.


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## Kit. (Dec 6, 2018)

Is titanium really better at vibration dampening than aluminium? I believe that they both are about the same, vastly inferior to carbon fiber.


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## 3kramd5 (Dec 6, 2018)

Kit. said:


> Is titanium really better at vibration dampening than aluminium? I believe that they both are about the same, vastly inferior to carbon fiber.


In short, no.
You could design a critically damped structure with any of the materials.


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## brad-man (Dec 7, 2018)

I believe I'll stick with my Markins and Acratech heads and Gitzo CF pods. Titanium is for flashlights and knife scales...


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## Ozarker (Dec 7, 2018)

tmroper said:


> I own a titanium bike frame, and while it is light and strong, the tubing also dents rather easily. Which isn't a huge problem for a bike if you baby it (and try not to crash too much), but could be for a tripod. Carbon fiber's just better all around.



Bought my daughter a Dean Scout and Lightspeed gave her a road frame back when she was racing. Gotta love Ti. She did crash the mountain bike a lot, but never had any denting problems. Here it is 20 years later and the Ti frames are incapable of rusting like steel or pitting like aluminum. Fantastic stuff. I think a Ti tripod is more for "status" than anything else. However, carbon fiber can get gouged. I'll be keeping my carbon fiber tripod.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 7, 2018)

I've specified precision diecasting of titanium parts for very exacting aerospace use. They were used in a super hot and exceedingly high vibration area where reduced mass was a benefit over other high temp materials like stainless steel.


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## 3kramd5 (Dec 7, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've specified precision diecasting of titanium parts for very exacting aerospace use. They were used in a super hot and exceedingly high vibration area where reduced mass was a benefit over other high temp materials like stainless steel.


I have used quite a bit of it myself too in spacecraft applications (very small runs, so always machined or EMD, never cast). I’m in a different industry now where its cost doesn’t make sense, but the current additive manufacturing capabilities are really neat.


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## chrysoberyl (Dec 7, 2018)

Kit. said:


> Is titanium really better at vibration dampening than aluminium? I believe that they both are about the same, vastly inferior to carbon fiber.



When I changed to carbon from aluminum, vibration reduced from 6-7 to 2 seconds. Are Gitzo and RRS legs designed for better dampening than Manfrotto, is it the carbon or both?


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## 3kramd5 (Dec 7, 2018)

chrysoberyl said:


> When I changed to carbon from aluminum, vibration reduced from 6-7 to 2 seconds. Are Gitzo and RRS legs designed for better dampening than Manfrotto, is it the carbon or both?



Indeterminate; not enough information is given. 

Chances are the RSS legs are stiffer, and thus have a higher natural frequency, so maybe it’s vibrating but you don’t notice. It would be interesting to instrument various tripods with accelerometers and quantify damping relative to various inputs.


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## slclick (Dec 7, 2018)

I've done quite a bit of sub zero (F) shooting and also a fair amount in desert climes but have yet to think I had a need for aerospace grade gear. Unless Elon Musk hires me to shoot while strapped to the Falcon Heavy, I don't have a need. My Feisol and Kirk setup works fantastically until I get that callup.


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## Maximilian (Dec 7, 2018)

tmroper said:


> I own a titanium bike frame, and while it is light and strong, the tubing also dents rather easily. Which isn't a huge problem for a bike if you baby it (and try not to crash too much), but could be for a tripod. Carbon fiber's just better all around.


AFAI understood the HP, they use carbon tubes for the tripod legs but Ti for the joints, fittings and the tripod head. And this shall give some additional weight saving.
Of course it is up to the customer to decide if that is worth north 1k bucks with tripod and ballhead made out of Ti.


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## MrFotoFool (Dec 8, 2018)

I saw this post yesterday, which means they have released the information to the public. Then today I get an email from them announcing this same tripod head but asking me not to share the information with anyone yet. Just bizarre (unless it's a form of reverse psychology in the hopes that I will forward it to a lot of people because I think I have inside information).


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## timmy_650 (Dec 8, 2018)

Is it bad I was reading the tripod chart and I thought I should look into the Feisol tripod, it looked better in very way and I can get it this week and not have to wait months. I probably won't


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## jvillain (Dec 8, 2018)

I will never back another kickstarter project. There is no accountability there what so ever. If the people taking your money want to spend it on hookers and blow there is nothing stopping them.


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## Hector1970 (Dec 8, 2018)

As a serial backer of Kickstarter projects I would warn anyone thinking of backing their first project to have a long think about it.
The more expensive it is the more risky it will finish.
Kickstarter has no come back. Kickstarter themselves don't give a damn about the projects or who is running them.
They get their cash either way. For me they are a total disappointment. No matter how poor the project they don't intervene on behalf of the mugs who gave them their money. They just wash their hands of it completely. 
The deal is between you and the manufacturer. If they are new to manufacturing / contract manufacturing they are learning at your expense.
Most projects do come through eventually but out of about 40 projects I backed about 10 have been anything like what was promised originally in terms of quality or outcome. You'd be better off buying an in-market product from an established brand.
Only back a project if you can afford to completely lose your money. Other companies don't make Titanium Tripods for a reason. It's probably not the easiest material to work with. 
In fairness to Peak Design they always come through - even if I'm never fully satisfied with the end product.
Lomography and Meyer Optic have made some interesting lens through it and Laowa.
However even for them its an easy risk free way to get venture capital for products they will sell to wider markets. 
They don't have to give away any part of the company to the Kickstarter investors.


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## mpphoto (Dec 8, 2018)

MrFotoFool said:


> I saw this post yesterday, which means they have released the information to the public. Then today I get an email from them announcing this same tripod head but asking me not to share the information with anyone yet. Just bizarre (unless it's a form of reverse psychology in the hopes that I will forward it to a lot of people because I think I have inside information).



I got a similar (or the same) email about Colorado Tripod earlier this week. The secrecy thing is likely marketing. Make people feel like they have inside information and first dibs on a new product. It'll work with early adopters.

Since no one has mentioned it in this topic yet, the founder of Colorado Tripod is Graham Clark from Breakthrough Photography. I know some people think Breakthrough makes great products, while others have had issues with Breakthrough's customer service. Just putting this out there so people can make a more-informed decision about backing this Kickstarter project.


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## MrFotoFool (Dec 9, 2018)

Yes that is how they got my email, because I have ordered Breakthrough Photography UV filters (though I no longer use UV protective filters, but I had no problems with Breakthrough).


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## Hesbehindyou (Dec 9, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> As a serial backer of Kickstarter projects I would warn anyone thinking of backing their first project to have a long think about it.
> [...]
> Most projects do come through eventually but out of about 40 projects I backed about 10 have been anything like what was promised originally in terms of quality or outcome. You'd be better off buying an in-market product from an established brand.



Thanks for the input - nice to have some data to back up my gut feelings about it. Would be interesting to hear about the projects you've backed an how they've turned out (or not).



> Lomography and Meyer Optic have made some interesting lens through it and Laowa.
> [...] for them its an easy risk free way to get venture capital for products they will sell to wider markets.
> They don't have to give away any part of the company to the Kickstarter investors.



It seems great for those niche products that otherwise wouldn't get funding due to the lack of potential returns. Having little spare money it's interesting reading up on the projects... a risky thing to do if there's money burning a hole in my pocket


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## kirispupis (Dec 9, 2018)

My advice to everyone on this is to wait. Here is a company with no track record attempting to release a large number of products for very optimistic prices. This is the same blueprint for countless other Kickstarter projects that have folded without ever releasing a thing.


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## Maximilian (Dec 9, 2018)

Just to put in my experiences with Breakthrough and Graham Clark


mpphoto said:


> Since no one has mentioned it in this topic yet, the founder of Colorado Tripod is Graham Clark from Breakthrough Photography. I know some people think Breakthrough makes great products, while others have had issues with Breakthrough's customer service. Just putting this out there so people can make a more-informed decision about backing this Kickstarter project.


And to give some more information on this, I have already backed a filter project from Breakthrough Photography, that went really fine.
Good information on every project step, just a slight delay of one month and the CPL I have now is doing fine.
I am not backing this Colorado Tripod kickstarter because I simply have no need in those products.

I also had some personal e-mail contact with Graham Clark which I really appreciated, because of straight, direct and open conversation.

But I have one thing to add:
With the mailing PR Graham claimed to be the founder of Colorado Tripod.
If you look at the kickstarter page you'll find a "David Clark" as founder of the kickstarter project.
Brother? Father? Second name? Why?
That left me truly puzzled.


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## danski0224 (Dec 10, 2018)

Meh....

I'm waiting for the transparent aluminum version.


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## Don Haines (Dec 10, 2018)

danski0224 said:


> Meh....
> 
> I'm waiting for the transparent aluminum version.


How do you know he didn't invent it?


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## hollybush (Dec 10, 2018)

Is titanium really a good idea for this? It is strong but not very stiff. In this applicatiom, stiffness matters a lot but strength is not very important.

And the ballhead isn't particularly light.


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## Del Paso (Dec 10, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Casting Ti is not easy at all. It has to be done in a vacuum or it will just burn up like magnesium would. CNC is much nicer anyway, IMO.


Neither is machining.
I can remember a very famous German car company, and the difficulties it encountered machining brake disc hubs made of titanium. Achieving a good precision wasn't easy, even with highest quality tooling and lots of engineering and machining experience. Thus, I'm quite skeptical as to the declarations of less experienced companies. I could be wrong, of course...


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## 4fun (Dec 10, 2018)

why are they making the Titanium version black instead of "natural" Ti-Oxide grey? Why not make Alu version black (elox)? Strange.


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## Jim Saunders (Dec 10, 2018)

It'll definitely save weight out of your wallet but beyond that this just seems ostentatious. I appreciate that the big whites have some titanium in them and that's a more intelligent use of the material, and I might frivolously buy a 1" ARCA-Swiss clamp made of it, but there's a place and time for it and this project doesn't seem like it.

Jim


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## Asher (Dec 13, 2018)

mpphoto said:


> Since no one has mentioned it in this topic yet, the founder of Colorado Tripod is Graham Clark from Breakthrough Photography. I know some people think Breakthrough makes great products, while others have had issues with Breakthrough's customer service. Just putting this out there so people can make a more-informed decision about backing this Kickstarter project.



Good to know. I have a couple Breakthrough Photography arca-swiss plates that are perfectly fine for the price, but after seeing how Graham replies to unhappy customers' Amazon reviews, I decided my money was better spent elsewhere.


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## 3kramd5 (Dec 14, 2018)

4fun said:


> why are they making the Titanium version black



I'll go with "because it's purely cosmetic," Alex.


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## danski0224 (Dec 15, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> How do you know he didn't invent it?



He did, didn't you see the movie?


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