# EOS 5D Mark IV Update [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 18, 2016)

```
We’re not shocked that the latest round of clickbait articles out there were wrong about the EOS 5D Mark III replacement being announced before The Photography Show this weekend. Though we do find the forum celebrities over on other forums to be entertaining.</p>
<p>We’ve been told that the EOS 5D Mark III replacement is slated for announcement after the EOS-1D X Mark II begins shipping in large quantities, which is at the end of April at last check. This information isn’t new. We’re also told that the next camera will get a moderate bump in resolution, but a good leap in dynamic range and ISO performance like the EOS-1D X Mark II. Again, this likely isn’t new information, but at least shows some consistency.</p>
<p>The same source has also told us that the video features of the camera will be the best in the lineup and will easily best the EOS-1D X Mark II for most filmmakers. While the EOS-1D X Mark II is aimed at photojournalists, the EOS 5D Mark IV will be aimed at filmmakers, with enough goodies to get new Canon buyers, retain old ones and get people on the path to getting into the Cinema EOS system. Apparently the plans for the video features of the camera changed about a year ago and became an important part of the development of the camera.</p>
<p>We’re looking forward to hearing more and I expect NAB 2016 will shed some light on the next full frame DSLR from Canon, though we don’t expect an announcement.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 18, 2016)

What is The Photography Show? :


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## Maximilian (Mar 18, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> ... Apparently the plans for the video features of the camera changed about a year ago and became an important part of the development of the camera. ...


I only hope that Canon will not overdo that video part. :
But I am sure they know that it is still a stills camera with video features and not the other way around.


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## Chaitanya (Mar 18, 2016)

Would much rather wait for announcement and then read reviews of this disapointing Canon dump.


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## timcz (Mar 18, 2016)

As you say I do hope they remember that people do use them for stills these days! Either way, jump in DR is very pleasing to hear. 

I wonder what counts as a "moderate" jump in resolution. Up to 30 or so would be nice.


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## Fleetie (Mar 18, 2016)

I hope that what they REALLY MEAN by that very worrying phrase is that they will :

aim videographers at the 5D4 (rather than the 1DX2, because of the 5D4's superior video)

RATHER THAN :

aim the 5D4 at videographers.

I shudder to think of a "video-fied" 5D camera.

I very much doubt that it'll be less than a stellar stills camera, as my 5D3 is, especially if they are going to have improved ISO and DR significantly.


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## tron (Mar 18, 2016)

So now it's again 5DMk IV and not 5DX ? :


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 18, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> Would much rather wait for announcement and then read reviews of this disapointing Canon dump.



Remind us again why you're here? Beyond the obvious need to proclaim your bitterness, that is... :


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## Troll Warlord (Mar 18, 2016)

You got me on this one too. :-\
Hope they will balance video/stills, c'mon with the announcement! ;D


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## davidj (Mar 18, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> While the EOS-1D X Mark II is aimed at photojournalists, the EOS 5D Mark IV will be aimed at filmmakers, with enough goodies to get new Canon buyers, retain old ones and get people on the path to getting into the Cinema EOS system.



For everybody thinking "oh no, they're making a camera for video people", I'm pretty sure what this sentence means is that the video capabilities of it is designed with filmmakers in mind, unlike the video capabilities of the 1D X Mark II that has video capabilities designed with photojournalists in mind (who, I don't know, don't want to shoot RAW video or something).

I'm sure it's still being primarily designed as a still camera. And, it's getting more megapixels, better high ISO performance and better dynamic range. It sounds like it's going to be a winner.


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## tron (Mar 18, 2016)

OK, in the light of so many rumors allow me to state the obvious (CR3).

The 5DMkIV will be better than 5DMkIII ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## CanoKnight (Mar 18, 2016)

Happy to hear this. Sorry Panasonic, you may not get my money after all. Looks like for a change Canon is listening to their customers.


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## Chaitanya (Mar 18, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Would much rather wait for announcement and then read reviews of this disapointing Canon dump.
> ...


Its frustrating to watch canon castrate their cameras just to protect more expensive products. I would really like to see Af linked spot metering(dual card slots will be there on this camera) on 5D mk 3 replacement. Its very useful for macro photography. Even 80D was another boring Canon release, now looking forward to 5D mark 3 replacement for 4K and other features for my field use.


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## Mantadude (Mar 18, 2016)

Any word if this will have the 60 fps, and 4K?


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## DomTomLondon (Mar 18, 2016)

Will Canon actually listen to all the Magic Lantern users out there and add the features into the next version of the 5D body. I sure hope so.
I installed ML on my 5D3 for a while and was very impressed with RAW video coming out of it.
However, there were issues with my batteries going flat within a day (when turned off) so uninstalled it.

I use a Canon C100 for video work most of the time, but the 5D3 is just so versatile when you want a small rig that can do stills and video. Hopefully the 5D4 will give us a reason to upgrade.


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## CanoKnight (Mar 18, 2016)

Mantadude said:


> Any word if this will have the 60 fps, and 4K?



The 1dx2 has 120fps @4k. Since this is going to one up that in video, I would expect nothing less than 180 [email protected]


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## slclick (Mar 18, 2016)

The first thing I think of when I hear the tired 'crippling' remark is how if there was no differentiation then you might as well make one camera. A very expensive camera. More whining, more missing the point of offering a broad range of value and feature sets for a global customer base. NOT a CR base.


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## Nininini (Mar 18, 2016)

DomTomLondon said:


> Will Canon actually listen to all the Magic Lantern users out there and add the features into the next version of the 5D body. I sure hope so.



of course they won't, one of the easiest ways to create price brackets in their system is software limitations, it costs nothing and they can make the same chips for every camera and artificially limit them


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## Nininini (Mar 18, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> The 1dx2 has 120fps @4k



lol


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## CanoKnight (Mar 18, 2016)

whothafunk said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > 1dx2 has 120fps @4k
> ...



You are right. I stand corrected. It's 120fps @2k. Well in that case how about [email protected] from the 5d4.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> The first thing I think of when I hear the tired 'crippling' remark is how if there was no differentiation then you might as well make one camera. A very expensive camera. More whining, more missing the point of offering a broad range of value and feature sets for a global customer base. NOT a CR base.



Oh, they don't have to include all features in all cameras...they just have to include the features _I personally want_ in the camera(s) that _I can personally afford_. 

My 1D X must be crippled because it lacks in-camera HDR. The 1D X II lacks it as well, making that camera a totally crippled joke that I refuse to buy so Canon is *******. ;D


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## JonAustin (Mar 18, 2016)

Since higher resolution and video mean nothing to me, a second 5DIII at closeout / clearance prices is looking better and better. (Or perhaps a 6DII?).

I'm hoping this new body goes a long way towards satisfying the wants and needs of videographers and high(-er) resolution shooters, however. 8)


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## mkabi (Mar 18, 2016)

The only way I see them beating the 1dx2 in terms of video recording is by adding 10 bit 4:2:2 internal.


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## slclick (Mar 18, 2016)

JonAustin said:


> Since higher resolution and video mean nothing to me, a second 5DIII at closeout / clearance prices is looking better and better. (Or perhaps a 6DII?).
> 
> I'm hoping this new body goes a long way towards satisfying the wants and needs of videographers and high(-er) resolution shooters, however. 8)



I'm with you however Canon holds it's resale and used/refurb values very well. All I have ever wished my 5D3 had which it does not is an interchangeable focusing screen.


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## AvTvM (Mar 18, 2016)

It will do 4k, 4k, 4k ... rejoiceth! 
"video-optimized mirrorslapper" ... contradictio in adjecto. 

Not interested. 5D III is the last mirrorslapper in my life. Still hoping Canon finally comes to its senses and builds me a mirrorless EOS M5 plus a few nice and compact pancakes to go along. Of course I would be the only person on the plante to buy it ... according to Neuro.


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## K (Mar 18, 2016)

Interesting rumor...

The word "moderate" tells me that the 5D4 will have 24mp. This makes sense to keep buffer capacity, FPS and speeds decent. Also, helps with low light capability. Moderate is a term used to describe when something isn't so great as you'd think.

The word "leap" for dynamic range tells me that rather than the dismal 11ish stops, this camera will probably hit high 12's or low 13's. Which is a leap. A full stop is that is. That's significant by any measure, and for Canon they'd consider that huge. Still not as good as Sony/Nikon. BUT...looking at the earliest 80D results, it appears that Canon is "tuning" their dynamic range like Sony/Nikon. Very high at ISO 100 - 400, about equal to other sensors at 800-1600, then about 1/2 stop weaker beyond 1600....

Which isn't a bad formula for a sensor. After all, once you get into the ISO 3200 and on...the dynamic range stinks in general and saving it a 1/2 stop doesn't do anything to give the image the same pop that low ISO's have.

Like Sony, the big DR numbers drop really fast. Canon sensors have had a more flatter trajectory for DR across the ISO range. Doing better at higher ISO. The counter argument to my earlier dismissive attitude toward high ISO DR is that at higher ISO's - every little bit helps when you are on the very edge of "usable" photos. You want anything you can get. It is of course, a case of diminishing returns.

Same ISO has 1DX2 doesn't say a whole lot. Just means what you can set will be the same, but the 1DX2 will certainly be cleaner.

Anyway, this camera being geared toward video is a disappointing rumor. But has validity. While I and many others would want a killer stills camera that sacrifices nothing for video - Canon not long ago put out what they believe to be the ultimate stills camera the 5DS. This liberates the 5D4 to be more video centric. Whatever the case may be, at 24MP with new sensor, more DR and higher ISO - this will serve as a great low light events camera for wedding pros and general purpose pro use. 

I also think that the lack of examinable RAW files for the 1DX2 has everything to do with the 5D4 and its rumors. It has been repeatedly rumored that the 5D4 won't be announced until he 1DX2 is shipping well. This is to slow down defections to Nikon at the non-flagship level. Also to help protect pre-order sales. Here's the reasoning. The 1DX2's image quality will be better than the 5D4 with the exception of all-out resolution by a little bit, and only in ideal situations like studio at lower ISO. Much the same as how the 1DX was better than the 5D3, except in pixel peeping studio shots or heavy crops at low ISO. At higher ISO, the megapixel advantage disappears entirely.

When people see and examine the 1DX2's image quality, dynamic range and ISO -- IF they are not satisfied with that - which I am almost certain **some** people will not be, they can easily infer that the 5D4 will be worse, and thus make a decision to move on if they see fit.

The idea here is that they don't want the 5D4 being prejudged by the results of the 1DX2 for as long as possible, and keep it as close to release time as they can. While information on the internet moves quickly - it still isn't instant and months do make a big difference. Sometimes it takes many weeks or months for someone to get around to having the time to dig in some online research and read all the nit-picking, pixel-peeping fanatical blogs that split hairs between sensors and brands. Not everyone makes camera technology their hobby and follows rumor forums. I'd say that type of person is a very tiny minority. Thus, the general buyers will take longer to get that info or results. 

Example, if I was really interested in high dynamic range ...and I took at look at the 1DX2 and found that it doesn't best say, the Nikon D750 or whatever...that would be a big turn off to buying the 5D4, as it is unimaginable that Canon would have the 5D series camera best the 1D in that regard.


Overall though, I do think Canon will make sure the 5D4 is a decent all-around pro DSLR, regardless of what video features it has. For those heavily invested in the Canon system, such as event shooters like wedding pros - this will be their go-to camera. They don't obsess about dynamic range or a few extra megapixels. It is smart move to gear toward video..there's just too many out there who love to use FF as a video platform for the low noise and great IQ. For the wealthy enthusiast, gear lovers and tech junkies, those not too invested in a system -- unless Canon puts up Nikon numbers on DR, there will be a lot more defections to Nikon in this one realm. Just figure, Nikon is due for the D820 not too far from now. The D750, despite the recalls, offers a tremendous amount of features and specs for an extremely reasonable price. That ties into my previous point, if the 5D4's sensor doesn't match or beat the D750's performance -- this will cause Canon to take a lot of abuse online because the D750 is running about $2k from authorized major retailers, an the 5D4 will likely debut at well over $3k....


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Mar 18, 2016)

hopefully with this NEWS 
that means it will have 4k video
just guessing the possible frames per second for video
will be a mystery till we get a legit spec sheet
22-25mp jump
a single or dual digics 6+ processors maybe even digic 7 if we are getting a video heavy camera 
with improves ISO and DR as said in the email
hoping for 7-8 fps so it can hold its on in sports/action shooting
better buffer and maybe a touch screen?
CANON PLEASE DONT DESIGN THE CAMERA AS 60/40 CAMERA IN FAVOR OF VIDEO FOLKS AND STILLS COSTUMERS


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## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

Okay, here's some speculation for you!

Okay, so 4K is 4096x2160, 4096 * 3 us 12288, 1/2 that is 6144, 3/4 that is 4608. So my prediction is going to be a sensor that is *6144x4608, or 28.3 MP* (base 10) or slightly larger.

So use pixel pairing for DPAF, *BUT* us pixel triples for each video pixels. And *BOOM* you have your 1.5X down scaling I mentioned before. 

So you get DPAF and NATIVE 1.5X scaling to 4K with *NO CROPPING*

Bloody brilliant if this is what cannon is doing.

If I am correct, expect a patent in 2 months to pop up!!

Wow, this could be bloody brilliant for stills and video!!


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## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> Okay, here's some speculation for you!
> 
> Okay, so 4K is 4096x2160, 4096 * 3 us 12288, 1/2 that is 6144, 3/4 that is 4608. So my prediction is going to be a sensor that is *6144x4608, or 28.3 MP* (base 10) or slightly larger.
> 
> ...



I lied, there will be some cropping on the top and bottom ;D

And yes, I am a EE and CompSci dude who does deeply embedded work, linux drivers. I love solving problems. I am disappointed in myself that I did not see this solution a couple weeks back.

And yes, to ties all of the threads together, IF, BIG IF, and am correct. This sensor will make a _massively _disruptive product introduction in the MILC and DSLR and Video record markets.

Micro lens density might be too great for APS-C right now, and frankly Cannon might have been pushing this bombshell off to FF cameras and not wasting it on the M series.


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## Hector1970 (Mar 18, 2016)

I've never filmed in 4K.
Is it a great leap forward?
My experience with video in Canon DSLRs is that the quality is good in the image but that it suffers badly from rolling shutter / jello and moving objects can be hard on the eyes to look at.
Does 4K solve any of those issues?

From a photographers perspective its reducing my expectation that they have done much else with the camera.
The 5DIII is a great photographers camera.
Canon would have been struggling to impress me with the Mark IV unless it had amazing ISO performance and 7DII FPS.
I don't know how big file sizes are in a few minutes of 4K. They are already large in HD. With my experiences with the 5DSR memory on PC's and memory cards get quickly filled.
I could be wrong but I'd say only a small portion of the 5DIII sales are for the purpose of (mainly) doing video.


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## JonAustin (Mar 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > Since higher resolution and video mean nothing to me, a second 5DIII at closeout / clearance prices is looking better and better. (Or perhaps a 6DII?).
> ...



Re: resale / used / refurb values, I agree, however, we've recently seen 5D III's from B&H for $2,149 (bundled with a PRO-10 & Adobe CC) and as low as $1,899 (IIRC) from gray market vendors. I expect to be able to pick up a new 5D III from B&H for around $1,750 after the 5D IV / X / whatever is released.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 18, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>The same source has also told us that the video features of the camera will be the best in the lineup and will easily best the EOS-1D X Mark II for most filmmakers.



that sounds incorrect.

canon did alot of engineering and only managed to do mpeg at 60p 4k on the 1DX Mark II.








so wiithin the same development time, they are magically going to create something that much better than the 1DX Mark II?

unless they go h.265, instead of h.264 i doubt it will have as good of specification of 4K as the 1DX.

of course unless the 5D Mark IV is 32MP and 8K video. 

sorry, just another clickbait article it sounds like ..


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## RobPan (Mar 18, 2016)

Most unfortunately, Canon takes far too long to produce the 5D4. After my 5D3 was stolen, I waited for about seven months for the 5D4 and in the end bought a A7RII, a complex camera with too many settings, endless possibilities. still learning, but I like it. (Fortunetely I can still use Canon lenses.) What I would like to see in ANY camera which has video: _longer maximum duration of a video recording_. The 30 mins that the 5D3 had and the A7RII has, are to little. Double that time would be perfect for me. Even 45 mins would be a big improvement. Hope my own body will last longer than the 5D3...
Kind regards, R.


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## TAW (Mar 18, 2016)

All this speculation seems so pointless and premature without a picture of the box :-[


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 18, 2016)

RobPan said:


> What I would like to see in ANY camera which has video: _longer maximum duration of a video recording_. The 30 mins that the 5D3 had and the A7RII has, are to little.



Well, you'd need to take that up with the EU Parliment.


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## gunship01 (Mar 18, 2016)

K said:


> Interesting rumor...
> 
> The word "moderate" tells me that the 5D4 will have 24mp. This makes sense to keep buffer capacity, FPS and speeds decent. Also, helps with low light capability. Moderate is a term used to describe when something isn't so great as you'd think.
> 
> ...



One of the most cogent musings I have read in the forums to date. Thanks for sharing your insight.


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## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > <p>The same source has also told us that the video features of the camera will be the best in the lineup and will easily best the EOS-1D X Mark II for most filmmakers.
> ...



If I am correct, the 4K will be full frame width, no crop on the sides. And that alone would be significantly better than the 1DX-ii.

As well, it is very possible they could sneak a $20 (or less) OMAP type processor in the body and get out H.26[4|5] out of a DSP that is made for producing H.26x.

Or another generation of their core processor that has a better DSP capabilities for H.26x generation. But I doubt that somewhat, as I would expect that to have been in the 1DX-ii. *Unless* they are waiting on firmware to be completed, which would not be ready in time for 1DX-ii release, but will be for 5DX release.

We have mere months to wait .........


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## mrlebeau315 (Mar 18, 2016)

Please release it before wedding season is in full swing. Thank you!


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## bdunbar79 (Mar 18, 2016)

mrlebeau315 said:


> Please release it before wedding season is in full swing. Thank you!



If not, you can always fall back on a 1Dx II.


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## DomTomLondon (Mar 18, 2016)

Can we please have PRO-RES in camera. non of this compressed B.S. ;D


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## rrcphoto (Mar 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> If I am correct, the 4K will be full frame width, no crop on the sides. And that alone would be significantly better than the 1DX-ii.
> 
> As well, it is very possible they could sneak a $20 (or less) OMAP type processor in the body and get out H.26[4|5] out of a DSP that is made for producing H.26x.



except it's not the DSP, it's heat management.

canon's already stated they could not do h.264 without vent ports such as the XC10 in the 1DX Mark II - thus mjpeg which is very low processor consumption.

and it was "as easy" as you think by just adding a $20 part, they would have done it to the 1DX Mark II

again - both are on the same development schedule, expecting something significantly better than the 1DXII video spec doesn't sound plausible IMO.


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## retroreflection (Mar 18, 2016)

For all of those who see the pace of announcements and releases as a grand Machiavellian scheme by the twirling mustache set at Canon, consider looking at this from a development, design, manufacturing, and finance perspective.
Sony's remarkable "new" technology that they constantly introduce is years old when it hits the shelves. Canon's outdated tech is maybe a bit older, but both are technically obsolete before they start. That's life in microelectronics, for the time being. Point being - more e.g. was spent a long time ago.
Design of a complex camera takes a long time, each working day has certain design elements frozen (no change until the next model, unless you want to delay & blow the budget on this one). I don't know the cycle in cameras, but I expect it to be measured in years.
Unless you want to build a new factory for each new model, you have to build an excess inventory for the old model, convert the assembly line to the new one, get the kinks out of the new assembly process, then build an inventory for the initial sales volume. Someplace close to the end of that process you make the announcement.
R&D involves some serious money, but it doesn't interfere with revenue.
Once you start building inventory on the old model, you are boosting costs without a corresponding rise in revenue. Shutting down for conversion, and then starting up the new line is seriously expensive. I don't know camera manufacturing costs, but I would be amazed if you can play this game for less than several hundred million.
Does Canon do this with cash on hand or borrowed funds? Either way, someone is SCREAMING for a payback measured in months.
The technical team promised a release date a year or two before go time. The board of directors has been monitoring their ability to meet that on a regular basis, with consequences for any slip. The finance team has been watching the money just as closely. They know that payback cannot start before cameras ship.
Now, someone suggests a delay to subtly manipulate demand between the various models. They would never be invited to those meetings again.


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## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> LoneRider said:
> 
> 
> > If I am correct, the 4K will be full frame width, no crop on the sides. And that alone would be significantly better than the 1DX-ii.
> ...



I am not going to say heat dissipation is not a part of it. But, what you might be missing is the notion that yeah, an modern day intel processor can easily produce H.265 video right, but I can pretty well guarantee you that an OMAP processor, with designed in proprietary IP with its sole purpose of doing compression/decompression is going to do the same encoding with *significantly* less power.

While the DIGIC processor maybe very well done, they are possibly on the ASICs end of production. Relatively low volume. And frankly we have no idea if they have purchased rights to the TI IP to allow for such efficient coding.

After giving it more thought, it is exceptionally possible the DIGICs in the 1DX-ii do not have the DSP core from a vendor like TI, where as the single DIGIC in the 5DX does. As the focus of the 5DX will likely be different than the 1DX-ii.

I guess, in summary, from what I understand, having worked with OMAP processors, and with people who were on the OMAP software development team in TI, unless Canon has one heck of a core competency we do not know about, they are licensing H.264 (or such) encoding. And that comes at a cost. The 1DX-ii might not be worth putting that in, where the 5DX might be???

We are just speculating.

Maybe this weekend I will see if there are any comprehensive x-rays of the DIGIC processors out there with analysis????


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## brianftpc (Mar 18, 2016)

So they are going to give the 5d 4 better video than the 1dx mk2......and make the c100 mk2 obsolete.....makes sense. 

Doesn't anyone find it odd how the rumor makes the 5d 4 sound better in almost every way other than picture fps than a camera that will cost 40% more.

Dont you think canon cares about actually selling the 1dx mk2 after preorders.....


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## gsealy (Mar 18, 2016)

mkabi said:


> The only way I see them beating the 1dx2 in terms of video recording is by adding 10 bit 4:2:2 internal.



Yes, while the 1DXII does have 4K internal, it is 8 bit. Also, the 1DXII only supports external HD recording, no 4K. The 5DIV could support external 4K recording, which some of the other competing products do. Also the 1DXII does not have C-Log. We will see if the 5DIV has other video style features such as peaking, etc.


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## preppyak (Mar 18, 2016)

gsealy said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > The only way I see them beating the 1dx2 in terms of video recording is by adding 10 bit 4:2:2 internal.
> ...


Wouldnt surprise me if it adds a lot of those video features, and the 1DXII adds them via firmware in a few months. One of those "it was in development, but not quite ready, so push them to the next cam" sort of scenarios.

And still shooters should love the push for video. A Canon cam that can do 4k-10bit internal is also gonna have the power to shoot a pretty high frame rate. Easily push from 6fps to 8 or 9 at least. And they'll really love it when processors get to the point where they can handle 4k, 24fps raw.


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## Schwingi (Mar 18, 2016)

We will see, but sounds promising!


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## mkabi (Mar 18, 2016)

gsealy said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > The only way I see them beating the 1dx2 in terms of video recording is by adding 10 bit 4:2:2 internal.
> ...



Yeah, after I posted that... I started thinking that they can add alot more than just internal 10 bit 4:2:2.
Some other guy said Pro Res, that would be amazing... a lot like the blackmagic pocket cinema camera...

But, yeah... I _feel_ for the photographers that don't want video in their cameras....
I strongly suggest that they do create something like a 5DC (further segment the series) and create a separate one for photographers. Mark down the C100 mark 2 and price it a little over the C100 mark 2, but not be more than $4000.


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## erjlphoto (Mar 18, 2016)

But....WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN?


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## dolina (Mar 18, 2016)

NAB 2016 is from 16-21 April


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## rrcphoto (Mar 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> I am not going to say heat dissipation is not a part of it. But, what you might be missing is the notion that yeah, an modern day intel processor can easily produce H.265 video right, but I can pretty well guarantee you that an OMAP processor, with designed in proprietary IP with its sole purpose of doing compression/decompression is going to do the same encoding with *significantly* less power.


and AGAIN. if it was this easy, canon would have done it already on the 1DX which for the most part would have been designed on the same timeline.

The fact that it's NOT in the 1DX most likely means it's not in the 5D Mark IV. these cameras are developed over a period of 3-5 years.

historically we've seen in the past that even DigiC processors lag about a full year from powershots (quicker timelines) to DSLR's.

What you are also not considering is the heat generated from the sensor / ADC's themselves, versus just the DSP, and also the fact that the 1DX Mark II and the 5D are weather sealed units.

*IF* they decide to make the jump to h.265 from h.264, there's a good chance they can do it - however, it's not likely that would be in the much smaller chassis of a 5D versus a much bigger one of the 1DX Mark II.

So whlie the technology may exist outside, evidence would tend to indicate that canon is "not there yet", unless we are not seeing the 5D Mark IV for another 1 year.

however with the rumored timeline being in months, IMO - I can't see it.


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## SwnSng (Mar 18, 2016)

The Crystal Ball shows:

24MP
10fps
4k - 120fps
1080p- 240fps
C-Log
Reticulating screen


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## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

SwnSng said:


> The Crystal Ball shows:
> 
> 24MP
> 10fps
> ...



I really want to hope you are correct on the 10FPS, gosh darn it I would be happy. But if my math is correct, for full sensor width 4K, assuming 3 native pixels per 4K video pixel, it will be just over 28MP.


----------



## kevl (Mar 18, 2016)

Late to the conversation but what is not to like about this CR2 rumour? Moderate increase in MP, large increase in dynamic range! Gimme lit focus points and you can just shut up and take my money.


----------



## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

I must admit, I am really surprised I have yet to read any ya's or na's on my hypothesis for deducing ~28MP


----------



## mkabi (Mar 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> LoneRider said:
> 
> 
> > I am not going to say heat dissipation is not a part of it. But, what you might be missing is the notion that yeah, an modern day intel processor can easily produce H.265 video right, but I can pretty well guarantee you that an OMAP processor, with designed in proprietary IP with its sole purpose of doing compression/decompression is going to do the same encoding with *significantly* less power.
> ...



The fact that it's NOT in the 1DXII, does not mean its not going to be in the 5D Mark IV.
Those are decisions made by Canon, not by us...

What you should be concerned about is... if it isn't in the 5DIV... which will last another 4 to 5 years...
What will the investers think?


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



Chaitanya,

I'm sure you're a swell guy/gal, but please...do one or both of the following:

1) Tone down the negativity. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...Remember?
2) Take some business courses and learn about product differentiation, market segmentation, development cycles, competition, economics and finance.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## M_S (Mar 18, 2016)

Clickbate. Total useless.


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

retroreflection said:


> For all of those who see the pace of announcements and releases as a grand Machiavellian scheme by the twirling mustache set at Canon, consider looking at this from a development, design, manufacturing, and finance perspective.
> Sony's remarkable "new" technology that they constantly introduce is years old when it hits the shelves. Canon's outdated tech is maybe a bit older, but both are technically obsolete before they start. That's life in microelectronics, for the time being. Point being - more e.g. was spent a long time ago.
> Design of a complex camera takes a long time, each working day has certain design elements frozen (no change until the next model, unless you want to delay & blow the budget on this one). I don't know the cycle in cameras, but I expect it to be measured in years.
> Unless you want to build a new factory for each new model, you have to build an excess inventory for the old model, convert the assembly line to the new one, get the kinks out of the new assembly process, then build an inventory for the initial sales volume. Someplace close to the end of that process you make the announcement.
> ...



+1


----------



## SwnSng (Mar 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> SwnSng said:
> 
> 
> > The Crystal Ball shows:
> ...



hmm so how does the the 1Dxmkii do it at 18MP?


----------



## unfocused (Mar 18, 2016)

My two cents (maybe overpriced)

24 mp sounds about right. The 6DII will have higher mp count (28-30) more in keeping with it's use as a landscape camera. Canon won't make the mistake again of giving the 6D better low light performance than the 5D.

Expect about 8 fps. 10 is too much to expect.

Autofocus unlikely to get a huge improvement. Canon needs to keep some differentiation between the 5D and 1D and that pretty much comes down to autofocus and frame rate.

Don't know enough about video to know what is meant or possible in regards to "better" than 1D X II. Touch screen will be a given. Maybe flip screen as well. To be "better" it probably needs a cfast slot, but I'd be a little surprised by that, as it would mean giving up either cf or sd. Could have the electronic zoom of the 70/80D. Not sure what other features could be added, but Canon probably has more headroom to add video features than still features, since the 1D X market is not really video-oriented.

Only thing guaranteed is that this forum will light up with people complaining once it is announced and yet it will sell very well.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 18, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Only thing guaranteed is that this forum will light up with people complaining once it is announced and yet it will sell very well.



Nonsense. That can't possibly happen because some people on this forum know so much better than Canon how Canon should design/build/market their products. Clearly, if the 5DIV has a reflex mirror and/or less than 14 stops of DR, then it's DoA.


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

My only-slightly-educated-speculation...

<guessing>


*25MP*
LoneRider, I like the deduction on 28MP. I'm just not convinced Canon will go that high. Still, 24-28MP bookend what I'd consider a realistic range.
.

*7-8FPS*
There's a point where frame rates get high enough that it will get the job done for sports/action, regardless of the product tier. I would suspect that 10FPS in a 5D body would cause too many people to opt for it over a 1-series body, just from a cost basis. It seems realistic to me that FPS is increased as an improvement, but only slightly so as not to overreach its positioning.
.

*[email protected], [email protected]*
Having better video than 1DXII seems totally plausible to me. The 1DXII has great video for photojournalists or those that need good quality video occasionally but primarily shoot fast-action stills. It's price is about machine-gun stills, AF accuracy, ruggedness, et cetera. Canon will try to bring back some of the 5DII-style love from the video shooters out there. That said, I think the improvements in the 5DX over the 1DXII will be things like external recording, higher bit depth, better codec, focus peaking, et cetera.
.

*Dual Pixel AF*
Seems like a no-brainer to me. 
.

*Articulating Touch Screen*
I'm not sure I'm convinced Canon will put one in their higher end bodies (hopefully, it will at least be on the 6DII), but it would be a realistic video-centric feature (and one that I would love as a stills shooter). I predict touchscreen for sure, coin-flip on articulating.
.

*1DXII AF System*
My guess is same layout, slightly less capability/speed compared to 1DXII.
.

*$3,299-$3,699*
That's admittedly a fairly wide range, but it reflects two somewhat opposing factors. First, the same economic and currency conditions that brought the 1DXII price down from its predecessor will likely affect the 5DX price. So I clearly can't choose the $3,699 price in front of you! But! The improvements in dynamic range and rumored high-end video capabilities may command a higher intro price, so I clearly can't choose the $3,299 in front of me!  It wouldn't surprise me if it happens to come in at $3,499, just like the 5DIII did.

</guessing>


----------



## J.R. (Mar 18, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> RobPan said:
> 
> 
> > What I would like to see in ANY camera which has video: _longer maximum duration of a video recording_. The 30 mins that the 5D3 had and the A7RII has, are to little.
> ...



Not to mention that many other countries outside the EU impose additional customs duty on anything that records over 29m 59s of video. Even if you are, as an individual willing to pay the cost, the camera companies are unlikely to listen ... It will make no business sense.


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

unfocused said:


> My two cents (maybe overpriced)
> 
> 24 mp sounds about right. The 6DII will have higher mp count (28-30) more in keeping with it's use as a landscape camera. Canon won't make the mistake again of giving the 6D better low light performance than the 5D.
> 
> ...



I probably should have read the warning about others posting while I was writing!  Could have saved myself the time, as you pretty much covered it.

Plus, I forgot about card slots. That's a lose/lose for Canon no matter how they do it. Double CFast? Compact Flash and SD people howl. One CFast and one SD? Compact Flash and perfect redundancy people howl. Double SD? CFast and Compact Flash people howl. You get the idea. 

On the AF system, am I mistaken in thinking that the 1DX and 5DIII share the same AF layout but differing AF speed and AI-Servo capabilities? If so, then I'll make my prediction more generic and say that I think Canon will follow the same differentiation paradigm as the 1DX/5DIII for the 1DXII/5DX.

While a 6DII that is essentially a full frame 70D with current sensor tech would make me do the happy dance, I'm keenly interested in the 5DX release as it might just be too much to resist while waiting for a (perhaps unlikely) 6DII as described.


----------



## J.R. (Mar 18, 2016)

People thinking they'll get something like a mini 1DC with 4K, a bigger sensor (without the 14 fps) are simply deluding themselves. 

If something very important isn't in the 1DX2 it is unlikely to find itself in the 5 series. 

Most of the upgrades in the 1DX 2 are on the video side ... I don't think canon will rain on its own parade here.


----------



## Sporgon (Mar 18, 2016)

I still think we may see an interchangeable viewfinder on the next 5D, especially as the rumours are suggesting it will be more video orientated than the 1 series. When I suggested this about 1 year ago PBD said that this kind of groundbreaking feature has always come in the 1 series first, and I agree in the past it has, but now I see more of a parting of the ways; the 1 series is more of a serious sports, action, wildlife, photojournalists camera than ever; I don't see much video being used but I've come across many using the 5 series for professional filming. 

An interchangeable finder is nothing new on an slr, many pro film models had them. In this modern age it could have a prism for OVF, and an interchangeable focusing screen: you unclip and slide the prism out and lift the screen out of the body. Or an EVF can be fitted. Slide it in, the electrical connections plug in, and the mirror is automatically raised out of the way. Shutter opens aka live view. The camera then focuses using DPAF. You could fit an oversized monitor for serious work, rather than eye-level. 

Since Canon introduced DPAF I was sure they intended to make much greater use of it rather than just have it used for amateur home video.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Mar 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> SwnSng said:
> 
> 
> > The Crystal Ball shows:
> ...





LoneRider said:


> I must admit, I am really surprised I have yet to read any ya's or na's on my hypothesis for deducing ~28MP


What do you mean by 3 pixels into 1? Are you saying an output pixel is made up of an input 3x3 pixel array?

If we assume typical sensor aspect ratio of 3:2

resolution = (4096 x 3) x (4096 x 2)
= 100.7 MP


----------



## rrcphoto (Mar 18, 2016)

mkabi said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > LoneRider said:
> ...



seriously? investors?

they won't give a crap either way.

if canon couldn't fit the technology into the 1DX Mark II, their flagship DSLR - on what planet would it be magically appear on a lesser camera in the exact same development timeline?


----------



## Tugela (Mar 18, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > ... Apparently the plans for the video features of the camera changed about a year ago and became an important part of the development of the camera. ...
> ...



They are cutting back on the stills side of things to funnel buyers into the 1DXII (vast piles of which would otherwise be gathering dust in warehouses). Market research (done by reading this site) shows that stills photographers are not interested in video, but on the other hand market results (from actual sales) demonstrate that MILCs with advanced video features are soaring. This presents a problem for Canon. Therefore, to protect their high end stills cameras, the stills functions on the 5DIV are being dumbed down to Rebel levels, while video functions are being improved in the hopes of catching up to last year's Sony products. The Canon executive team feels that this is the best approach for maximising profits to ensure that their supply of caviar and original art can be sustained.


----------



## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

SwnSng said:


> hmm so how does the the 1Dxmkii do it at 18MP?



To my knowledge right now, the 1DX-ii crops to native pixels. So there are bars on either side and top and bottom. There was a lot of crying about the 4K on the 1DX-ii being cropped.



Famateur said:


> *25MP*
> LoneRider, I like the deduction on 28MP. I'm just not convinced Canon will go that high. Still, 24-28MP bookend what I'd consider a realistic range.
> .



To do anything under 28MP you would either have to crop for 4K or scale to get to 4K resolution (width wise) If they can natively just do 4K within the full sensor width, it would require a lot less processing (no *2D* scaling), and without the scaling you would of course save battery, memory, and of course, less heat to dissipate 



StudentOfLight said:


> What do you mean by 3 pixels into 1? Are you saying an output pixel is made up of an input 3x3 pixel array?
> 
> If we assume typical sensor aspect ratio of 3:2
> 
> ...



So right now with Dual Pixels, 2 half size pixels, that are side by side, are used to create a single pixel.

Even with the computations for Bayer form







Instead of using 2 side by side DP pixels to create a image pixel, we use 3 of them to create a video pixel. So for stills it uses 2x1 array for each resulting pixel. In video it would use 3x1.

Now, one part I forgot, you would still have to scale in the Y. You would need a 0.666 scale in the Y. 

So yeah, 1D scaling, but not 2D scaling for video.


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

Tugela said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



There -- I fixed it for you!


----------



## LoneRider (Mar 18, 2016)

So, for 4K video to be be full width, utilizing the DP pixel doubling, here is a quick table.


DP pixels for each video pixel*Vertical Scale Factor*Actual pixels*3/4 Heidt*hMP's 2 * 1*  4096  * 3072*  12.59  3  *1.5* 6144  * 4608 *  28.31  4 * 2 *  8192 * 6144 *  50.33 


12.59 MP is too is too small for even APS-C cameras
28.31 MP is where I would expect the 5DX to come in at
50.33 MP would be really easy for a 5DS to record 4K. Basically it would be a simple 2X scale in the X and Y.


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> If canon couldn't fit the technology into the 1DX Mark II, their flagship DSLR - on what planet would it be magically appear on a lesser camera in the exact same development timeline?



Perhaps the planet where the 70D has touchscreen with its DPAF, but 7DII doesn't. 
Or the 5DS(R) without DPAF, but 70D, 7DII with DPAF. 
Or a Powershot having Digic 7 when the 1DXII uses Digic 6+ chips (albeit dual). 

Admittedly not exactly the same development timelines, but the 7DII is both higher tier and later release compared to 70D, and the 5DS(R) was newer and higher tier than the 7DII.

The point that was being made is that there will be feature-driven product positioning decisions made by Canon that some might not agree with or understand. That might include "lower" models of the same generation having one or two "better" features. It happens...


----------



## slclick (Mar 18, 2016)

Famateur said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > If canon couldn't fit the technology into the 1DX Mark II, their flagship DSLR - on what planet would it be magically appear on a lesser camera in the exact same development timeline?
> ...



I get the gist of your post but touchscreen being better is very subjective. Most shooters would rather use dials. Intuitive, faster and no need to move your hand positions or eye.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 18, 2016)

Tugela said:


> ...on the other hand market results (from actual sales) demonstrate that MILCs with advanced video features are soaring.



Yeah, they're soaring like



and



. :


----------



## mkabi (Mar 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



That's your train of thought?
So, before last year... they didn't have a 50MP sensor in the 1DX so how would it appear in the 5DS????

They had the heat problem since 2012 with the 1DC... that's 4 years... your telling me that they couldn't find a work around??? And, cause its not in the 1DX mark 2, its not going to be in the 5D4?

All I'm saying is that they withheld it from the 1DX mark 2, is that really that hard to accept?
The year that the original 1DX was announced, 5D Mark 3 was also announced... one had a 18MP sensor and the other had a 22MP sensor. They withheld the 22MP from the 1DX, "their flagship DSLR."


----------



## jeffa4444 (Mar 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> So, for 4K video to be be full width, utilizing the DP pixel doubling, here is a quick table.
> 
> 
> DP pixels for each video pixel*Vertical Scale Factor*Actual pixels*3/4 Heidt*hMP's 2 * 1*  4096  * 3072*  12.59  3  *1.5* 6144  * 4608 *  28.31  4 * 2 *  8192 * 6144 *  50.33
> ...


You may well be correct at 28.31MP (time will tell) but Canon will not be giving a 5DX camera the kind of colorimagery it would reserve for its upcoming super 35 8K system. This means no H.265 for instance, no Rec.2020 and no lossless compression.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Mar 18, 2016)

Tugela said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Once again, not only does the data NOT support what you say, it actually contradicts it. Keep smokin', must be some great stuff!


----------



## SwnSng (Mar 18, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> So, for 4K video to be be full width, utilizing the DP pixel doubling, here is a quick table.
> 
> 
> DP pixels for each video pixel*Vertical Scale Factor*Actual pixels*3/4 Heidt*hMP's 2 * 1*  4096  * 3072*  12.59  3  *1.5* 6144  * 4608 *  28.31  4 * 2 *  8192 * 6144 *  50.33
> ...


----------



## Etienne (Mar 18, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> Mantadude said:
> 
> 
> > Any word if this will have the 60 fps, and 4K?
> ...



Upping the video ante may mean 4:2:2 color instead of 4:2:0


----------



## mkabi (Mar 18, 2016)

Etienne said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > Mantadude said:
> ...



It does 4:2:2 externally, but only 8 bit 4:2:2.
If they up the "video ante", it has to be 10bit 4:2:2 externally at least.


----------



## Etienne (Mar 18, 2016)

mkabi said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > CanoKnight said:
> ...



In-camera 10-bit 4:2:2 would get people's attention for FF 4K DSLR video.
Add DPAF, swivel touchscreen, and I'm pretty much sold


----------



## daniela (Mar 18, 2016)

Famateur said:


> My only-slightly-educated-speculation...
> 
> <guessing>
> 
> ...



My "crystalball"s in Japan rumor: 24,2 MP. 7-8FPS. less noise (about 0.5-1 stop better) , clean pictures on high Iso like 6D. same layout like 5DS. AF area a little bit expanded, much more AF8 points., AF speed and accuracy like 1DX Mark I. DPAF. touchscreen for moviemode. WIFI & GPS. 2 fast Card-slot. price higher than 5DSR.


----------



## Maui5150 (Mar 18, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> RobPan said:
> 
> 
> > What I would like to see in ANY camera which has video: _longer maximum duration of a video recording_. The 30 mins that the 5D3 had and the A7RII has, are to little.
> ...



Shhhh. You make too much sense. 

Heaven forbid that manufacturer's try and save consumers from arbitrary taxes. Not like the Government would create this 30 minute limit and require devices that exceed it to pay more taxes. That is absurd thinking...

Which is why the EU did it


----------



## mkabi (Mar 18, 2016)

Maui5150 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > RobPan said:
> ...



Mmmm... something similar to a sugar tax...
http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/should-canadians-pay-a-sugar-tax-on-food-and-drinks-1.2777182


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Agreed on using dials while shooting through-the-viewfinder. Having the touchscreen doesn't hamper that in any way. Where it really shines for me when shooting stills is studio work with touch-to-focus. It's MUCH faster when poses and focus points are constantly changing (currently doing an extended series for a Kung Fu studio). I'd feel quite hobbled without the touch-to-focus, and our models would have to hold difficult poses longer as I change focus points. In addition, it's much more comfortable to look down at a flipped-out screen than to hunch to the viewfinder's level. Plus, I can interact with the subjects more naturally. I acknowledge that I am a sample N=1, so there might be only a few like me who love the articulating touchscreen for stills.


----------



## slclick (Mar 18, 2016)

Famateur said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Famateur said:
> ...



A 5D series body getting a flipscreen is a longshot. Now normally I abhor these things but for ground level macro work it would be a blessing. Then again, I shoot on very uneven ground and harsh conditions regularly so I can easily see it being damaged.


----------



## rrcphoto (Mar 18, 2016)

Famateur said:


> Admittedly not exactly the same development timelines, but the 7DII is both higher tier and later release compared to 70D, and the 5DS(R) was newer and higher tier than the 7DII.
> 
> The point that was being made is that there will be feature-driven product positioning decisions made by Canon that some might not agree with or understand. That might include "lower" models of the same generation having one or two "better" features. It happens...



on different timelines. some of the those reasons are ergonomics and 5Ds to 70D,etc is full frame to crop? touchscreen was not deemed important on a professional body? and none of those examples deal with canon's flagship 1 series.

1DX Mark II is touted has having high end 4K video.

So name a time where canon has placed something specifically on it's flagship and then outdone it 2-3 months later on another camera?

outside of MP's nothing was higher specced on the 1DX versus the 5D Mark III - so why would anyone expect anything different from the 1DX Mark II versus next 5D series?


----------



## syder (Mar 18, 2016)

DomTomLondon said:


> Can we please have PRO-RES in camera. non of this compressed B.S. ;D



Prores is a lossy compressed codec.

And it's owned by Apple and plays much nicer on Macs than any other OS. So DNxHR please


----------



## scyrene (Mar 18, 2016)

JonAustin said:


> Since higher resolution and video mean nothing to me, a second 5DIII at closeout / clearance prices is looking better and better. (Or perhaps a 6DII?).
> 
> I'm hoping this new body goes a long way towards satisfying the wants and needs of videographers and high(-er) resolution shooters, however. 8)



I'll sell you mine. It's a bit battered though!


----------



## scyrene (Mar 18, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Not interested. 5D III is the last mirrorslapper in my life. Still hoping Canon finally comes to its senses and builds me a mirrorless EOS M5 plus a few nice and compact pancakes to go along.



No way, we had no idea! You've only said this in every thread here for as long as I can remember...


----------



## j-nord (Mar 18, 2016)

I really hope its 7-8fps and 30ish m-pix otherwise I won't be interested. I have no interest in video but it would be nice to see Canon remotely competitive in the DSLR video world.


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> A 5D series body getting a flipscreen is a longshot.



Agreed. :'(



slclick said:


> Then again, I shoot on very uneven ground and harsh conditions regularly so I can easily see it being damaged.



Are you a fellow Utah dweller? Just looking at your forum handle...

If so, rugged conditions, indeed! While it's probable that Canon will not put an articulating screen on its 5D series bodies anytime soon, I've used three different Canon cameras with articulating screens in pretty nasty conditions, and all still work as the day they were new. This includes windy sand dunes, snowboarding*, rain, elk hunting (blood and hair) and everything in between. 

I'd have absolutely no qualms about an articulating screen's durability on a 5D body. But. I agree that Canon likely won't do it. When Nikon put one on the D750, it gave me a glimmer of hope that Canon might consider it -- especially since Canon "officially" considers the 5D series a "prosumer" tier, reserving the "professional" designation for the 1D series only.

Fun stuff...can't wait to see what actually comes to market!

_* Have had some wipe-outs while filming that left the camera buried in snow. No malfunctions. Actually, the cameras fared far better than I did!!! Still have sore ribs from a spill back in February. Camera is fine, though... _


----------



## Famateur (Mar 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Admittedly not exactly the same development timelines, but the 7DII is both higher tier and later release compared to 70D, and the 5DS(R) was newer and higher tier than the 7DII.
> ...



True that none of my examples were from 1D bodies. How about 1DXII doesn't have WiFi (internally).  I know, I know -- that's purportedly a technological barrier.

It is interesting to note that the 1DXII now has a touchscreen. 

I'm content just to wait and see. Who knows -- either one of us (or both) might end up quite surprised at what Canon does with the 5DIII successor...or the 5D family in general, considering Canon management indicated that the split would pursue resolution and sensitivity in different bodies. That change in strategy might reduce the improbability that Canon will have features in the 5DIII successor that are not present in the 1DXII.

It's fun to speculate!


----------



## Maui5150 (Mar 19, 2016)

mkabi said:


> Maui5150 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



If people wanted to solve there government problems, especially financial it is easy.

Any time a politicians is
-- Caught lying
-- Caught omitting relevant facts
-- Deliberately misleading - Statement technically factually true, but presented in a misleading context to make it seem like it says something else

You simply fine them, and take away part of their pensions.

The net result are quiet politicians (never a bad thing)


----------



## HighLowISO (Mar 19, 2016)

So we've gone from "no 4K" to " the video features of the camera will be the best in the lineup". 

Well if the "best" doesn't have 4K that will be the real shocker.

Seems like the rumor mill is having a hard time keeping viewers interested. Seems like this site is posting more click bait everyday.


----------



## gsealy (Mar 19, 2016)

syder said:


> DomTomLondon said:
> 
> 
> > Can we please have PRO-RES in camera. non of this compressed B.S. ;D
> ...



I am thinking we not see either of those internally. Most likely it will be motion JPG because it is faster and easier to write to memory. But hopefully the 5DIV will support external 4K recording to say an Atomos Assassin


----------



## mkabi (Mar 19, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> outside of MP's nothing was higher specced on the 1DX versus the 5D Mark III - so why would anyone expect anything different from the 1DX Mark II versus next 5D series?



Sorry man... not trying to pick on you specifically...
but just to get somethings in perspective...

1080p video (video period) was _first_ introduced in the 5D (specifically the 5D Mark 2) not the 1D...
If MP is resolution for pictures, then 4K is resolution for video...
So if 5D has more picture resolution than the 1D, why shouldn't it have more video resolution too?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 19, 2016)

mkabi said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > outside of MP's nothing was higher specced on the 1DX versus the 5D Mark III - so why would anyone expect anything different from the 1DX Mark II versus next 5D series?
> ...



Ok, where was 4K video resolution _first_ introduced on a dSLR?


----------



## pwp (Mar 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Would much rather wait for announcement and then read reviews of this disapointing Canon dump.
> ...


+1 ???


----------



## pwp (Mar 19, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> Happy to hear this. Sorry Panasonic, you may not get my money after all. Looks like for a change Canon is listening to their customers.


Yeah right! Could be I'll have my Panasonic GH4 and lots of MFT glass up for sale if the 5DIV is a highly viable video option. As good as the GH4 is for video, dual systems are cumbersome and expensive. I'm optimistic!

-pw


----------



## archiea (Mar 19, 2016)

Ah,,. the canon 5D Mark IV

Based on the 1DX 2, there are some heat limits as to what the 5D could do in 4K

How about RAW HD out? 

4K 4:2:2 clean HDMI out?

Possible be the new Flagship of the Dual pixel AF technology?

How about a new 24-105 F 4 kit lens but with IS and Nano AF motors for smooth video?

Wireless transfer. My only issue with this is that the crappy eyefi card let you display the image as you shot!! Like a live wireless tether. Built in Wifi doesn't operate that way. Boo!

Operating the camera via Wifi from a smartphone kinda makes the tilt screen redundant. 

Touchscreen. I hope unlike the 1DX, its available on all modes. Perhaps putting the 5D on button lock means the touch screen is locked too. Makes sense. 

Perhaps a better preamp so that one won't have to use a Black Box to boost the audio for recording. 

Keep those bleeping AF points lit like a college trustfund baby frat boy! 

higher FPS in HD rez. 

dual card slot, just don't know if it will be CFAST for one of them. Can't alienate current CF users and don't know it there is room for two cards fo that size. 

Phased Plasma rifle (Hey buddy, just what you see here!)


----------



## mkabi (Mar 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Okay, I will bite - in the 1DC.

So are you siding with rrcphoto in saying that the 5D4 will not get 4K???
And/or better video features than the 1dx II???


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 19, 2016)

Sounds promising, but they have been so stingy with critical video usability features before and held back so much video stuff and not delivered DR for so long.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 19, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Admittedly not exactly the same development timelines, but the 7DII is both higher tier and later release compared to 70D, and the 5DS(R) was newer and higher tier than the 7DII.
> ...



Because it doesn't make sense to push a big bulky body with an ultra speed and expensive shutter/mirrobox and all that on viode crowd (which they have been badly loosing). Why can't the 5D4 have better video and video features than the 1DX II? The A7R II in many ways has better video and it's been out a while and pretty cool to use. It sounds like the 5D4 won't touch the nice 42MP detail/reach of the A7R II but they may be able to tie or come close for DR and then beat it for AF/speed and maybe at least match video usability and then beat it with say 10bits or somthing, so you give up the MP count, a shame, but make up for it with 10bits for video people (awesome) and AF/speed for stills people (awesome) and then they can go higher MP for 5D5 in the future.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> It will do 4k, 4k, 4k ... rejoiceth!
> "video-optimized mirrorslapper" ... contradictio in adjecto.
> 
> Not interested. 5D III is the last mirrorslapper in my life. Still hoping Canon finally comes to its senses and builds me a mirrorless EOS M5 plus a few nice and compact pancakes to go along. Of course I would be the only person on the plante to buy it ... according to Neuro.



If you continue slapping the slapper sooner or later you'll come to your senses and realize that slapping the slapper and thinking oneself clever means you've already gone blind. I hope your new Sony comes with a can of cream and a razor to shave your palms.   

You haven't sold the technologically soft slapping stuff you have yet and switched? Just wondering what the hold up is.

Sweet dreams my friend. May your sheets be dry in the morning. Don't get too slapper slap happy.


----------



## Alan (Mar 19, 2016)

Don't expect the replacement until 2017.


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## Txema (Mar 19, 2016)

I'll wait and see what the 5DIV has to offer. If the pixel count is not near 36 mpx, I'll either get the 7RII or go the nikon way selling all my gear but the 24T&S and getting the 750D as backup plus the next nikon with the 42 mpx Sony sensor. 
I'll really miss the 5DIII control layout and ergonomics.


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## mml4 (Mar 19, 2016)

I don't get it. Most 5D3 owners when asked say they rarely if ever use the video feature. So Canon REPORTEDLY makes a big video splash with their most important stills camera. I wish they would offer a model without video at a reduced price.
Marc


----------



## koenkooi (Mar 19, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > LoneRider said:
> ...



For the OMAP1/2/3 series the DSP did the decode, OMAP4 and up have a separate hardware block, IVA-HD, for doing video. Unless you go for a different family like Keystone the DSP is more of a vestigial organ than the flagship feature it used to be.
Getting IP blocks for video encode isn't hard nor expensive, have a look at all the *cheap* SoC the china vendors like rockchip, amlogic, action semi and allwinner are producing. The most effort will go into dealing with MPEG-LA and Microsoft and their per-device royalties for h26x and vc1.


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## Nininini (Mar 19, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> I've never filmed in 4K.
> Is it a great leap forward?



yes, megapixels still trumps everything else when it comes to detail, both in still and video



Hector1970 said:


> My experience with video in Canon DSLRs is that the quality is good in the image but that it suffers badly from rolling shutter / jello and moving objects can be hard on the eyes to look at.
> Does 4K solve any of those issues?



No the only thing that fixes rolling shutter is a global shutter, which you will find in pricey video cameras and many industries from banking to retail to hyperspectral imaging, not DSLR. It will one day be in DSLR though.

Some cameras (like the new 4k A6300 ironically), suffer greatly from rolling shutter. 4k does not remedy rolling shutter, at all.

The only thing that solves rolling shutter, is a shutter that captures all the light at once. Thus, a global shutter with complex circuitry where everything happens in an instant, but they're pricey complex sensor, currently only used in fancy camera gear.

ALSO, you find global shutters in many grocery stores. Those things that the cashier runs the item against to read the barcode, that's a global shutter sensor.


These things, are global shutters. They're the type of sensor you find in a grocery store or wallmart. Many of those sensors are far more complex than the sensor in your DSLR since they need to work at an incredibly high capturing rate to identify the barcode at high speed. They need to be global shutters by design, they need to capture the barcode in a split second.

This is the same company that made the Leica Q sensor, they make all sorts of global shutters.


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## monsieurgaudy (Mar 19, 2016)

I remember when Canon cares about photographers... It was a long time ago. Now all the lineup seems to be fit for videographers. Too bad. I don't care about 4k. Just need a f*cking good camera for still.


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

monsieurgaudy said:


> I remember when Canon cares about photographers... It was a long time ago. Now all the lineup seems to be fit for videographers. Too bad. I don't care about 4k. Just need a f*cking good camera for still.



I hear you but we've all been schooled here on CR to understand that the video doesn't add a penny to the cost and to just avoid the menu.


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## nightscape123 (Mar 19, 2016)

If the 5DIV is going to be more film oriented, maybe the 6DII will move upmarket in stills capacity but lack video features, making it cheaper and different than the 5D series but be closer in stills capacity to the 5D line than before.


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## Nininini (Mar 19, 2016)

mml4 said:


> I don't get it. Most 5D3 owners when asked say they rarely if ever use the video feature.



lol 

https://widerimage.reuters.com/photographer

Almost every Reuters photographer uses a 5D Mark II or mark III, click their name to see what they use.

Trust me, they use video.

The 5D is the go-to camera reporters use.


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## Nininini (Mar 19, 2016)

monsieurgaudy said:


> I don't care about 4k. Just need a f*cking good camera for still.



Hi.


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

Nininini said:


> mml4 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get it. Most 5D3 owners when asked say they rarely if ever use the video feature.
> ...



I think '5D3 owners' implies folks who purchased their own cameras. Not journos.


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## Nininini (Mar 19, 2016)

slclick said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > mml4 said:
> ...



Well, those "journos" are a very important market. Canon is not going to just strip the 5D Mark IV of video capabilities.

Anyway, his argument makes no sense. There is a still camera already, the 5DS.


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

Nininini said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Nininini said:
> ...



I don't think there is anyone who actually thinks video capabilities will be removed from the 5D line. It's also a far more widely known fact that the 1D line is the better journo tool. Folks using their bodies for stills just need to ignore the video menus and shoot. End of story. The 5Ds/R lines are too expensive for the average bear.


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## Nininini (Mar 19, 2016)

slclick said:


> It's also a far more widely known fact that the 1D line is the better journo tool.



Not true at all, the majority of the Photographers are shooting with 5D.



slclick said:


> The 5Ds/R lines are too expensive for the average bear.



Ok, then buy a 6D or an APS-C. 

/first.world.problems


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## JJJandak (Mar 19, 2016)

So many people whining about video feetures.. If you don't shoot video, just ignore it! This camera is gonna take exactly same pictures even if it was only still camera.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 19, 2016)

slclick said:


> I don't think there is anyone who actually thinks video capabilities will be removed from the 5D line. It's also a far more widely known fact that the 1D line is the better journo tool. Folks using their bodies for stills just need to ignore the video menus and shoot. End of story. The 5Ds/R lines are too expensive for the average bear.



what makes you think a new 5D mark IV will be any cheaper?


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think there is anyone who actually thinks video capabilities will be removed from the 5D line. It's also a far more widely known fact that the 1D line is the better journo tool. Folks using their bodies for stills just need to ignore the video menus and shoot. End of story. The 5Ds/R lines are too expensive for the average bear.
> ...



I didn't. In fact I gave no allusion to that model. Really? I love my 5D3 and it's more than enough camera for me.

I truly hope the Mk4/X makes most of you happy, yet I know it won't because complaining is an Olympic sport around here.

It all boils down to me wondering how many of you use your tools to their fullest potential and how many just have GAS and love to read spec sheets and argue.


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## tron (Mar 19, 2016)

nightscape123 said:


> If the 5DIV is going to be more film oriented, maybe the 6DII will move upmarket in stills capacity but lack video features, making it cheaper and different than the 5D series but be closer in stills capacity to the 5D line than before.


Still (pun intended), a camera devoted to stills photography should have higher fps than a video oriented camera and better Phase Detetion AF as well. So far this is the 5D series...


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## scyrene (Mar 19, 2016)

monsieurgaudy said:


> I remember when Canon cares about photographers... It was a long time ago. Now all the lineup seems to be fit for videographers. Too bad. I don't care about 4k. Just need a f*cking good camera for still.



And the current lineup offers you nothing for stills? Out of the 5D3, 5Ds(r), 1Dx(2), and the various lower models... If you can't take a good photo with any of those, it's not the camera, it's you.


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

scyrene said:


> monsieurgaudy said:
> 
> 
> > I remember when Canon cares about photographers... It was a long time ago. Now all the lineup seems to be fit for videographers. Too bad. I don't care about 4k. Just need a f*cking good camera for still.
> ...



Doubleplus One


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## Photox (Mar 19, 2016)

As of all the 5D's, it will most likely be introduced in September on Photokina 2016. Canon would not like to make the same mistake again, 
by putting two cameras in the market at the same time (1Dx and 5D3), cuz most of the users wouldnt go for the pricier camera. Period.


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## Besisika (Mar 19, 2016)

slclick said:


> It all boils down to me wondering how many of you use your tools to their fullest potential and how many just have GAS and love to read spec sheets and argue.


I don't want myself to get too deep into this conversation. Your question got me thinking about what is actually the issue, if there is one or two. Good question.
I think, there is nobody who uses the tool to its fullest potential; simply impossible. 
But it is not necessarily a GAS either to call for a better one - not always.
The key is that everybody has specific needs. If the current gear doesn't allow him to do what he wants or the task would be easier or faster with a better result if the gear is improved then he would scream for an improvement. He would not be satisfied if the new gear doesn't help his cause and would call it a crap. In the process, he totally ignores the other improvements.
We look at the overall improvement and find it impressive, but not him.
I don't think that is a GAS.
If a trailer can protect your family from the weather, why buy a house? Would that be a GAS?


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

Besisika said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > It all boils down to me wondering how many of you use your tools to their fullest potential and how many just have GAS and love to read spec sheets and argue.
> ...


Apple to oranges.

Look we all know that tech and gadgetry gets people going around here. GAS is real and the drool really starts flowing around announcement time. All logic is pissed to the wind when GAS sets in. Marketing has brainwashed even the most sensible of us that newer is better and we NEED it. YMMV because you're level headed, right?


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## unfocused (Mar 19, 2016)

Nininini said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > It's also a far more widely known fact that the 1D line is the better journo journalism tool.
> ...



Both simultaneously right and wrong.

While the 1D may be the better photojournalism tool, most photojournalists are underpaid and cannot afford to buy a 1D for themselves. (Most photojournalists do not have their equipment provided by their employers.) Only large and some mid-size newspapers provide a camera and lens pool. Those in smaller markets are usually expected to buy their own equipment.

Almost all freelance and contract photographers must provide their own equipment, although at a certain level (such as National Geographic) they may have access to a pool of equipment, but that's only for a tiny percentage of photographers.

One reason you see so many Reuters (or AP) photographers using 5Ds is that many of them are contract or freelance photographers who have to buy their own equipment. (ever hear of outsourcing?) I'm sure many would love to have a 1D body, but they probably would rather eat.


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



I didn't feel the need to type in 'photo' since on this forum that should be a given, however as things get picked apart here to the Nth degree, I guess you taught me something.


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## dak723 (Mar 19, 2016)

slclick said:


> I truly hope the Mk4/X makes most of you happy, yet I know it won't because complaining is an Olympic sport around here.
> 
> It all boils down to me wondering how many of you use your tools to their fullest potential and how many just have GAS and love to read spec sheets and argue.



When I first came to this forum, I thought, "Oh good, here's a place where I can share my enthusiasm for photography. And maybe learn a few new things along the way."

Alas, it is not what I had hoped for. It has become a place for constant complaints. It has become a place for trolls to make outrageous statements meant only to rile up the people who like their Canon cameras. It has become a place for people suggesting how Canon should run their business (despite the fact that they have NO knowledge whatsoever about running a business). It is all about trashing Canon and promoting Sony and other brands - even though the vast majority of the "trashers" have never tried these other brands and only know what the internet sites say about them and their spec sheets. The negativity sure helps kill any enthusiasm anyone might have for taking photos with their Canon cameras. And worst of all, newbies come to this site hoping to get some actual opinions on cameras and other products. What they get is the endless Sony propaganda and the opinion that Canon is "years behind."

Pretty sad, because the reality (as I see it) is that today's cameras are all excellent and take pics that are virtually indistinguishable from one another. People find Canon "boring" because they don't throw in every bell and whistle and instead care about making durable, reliable, easy to use cameras that take excellent pictures. Techies
aren't interested in that. They care about specs and being able to tell their friends that their camera has the best "ratings". Photographers care about the photos and Canon has always delivered what they need.


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2016)

dak723 said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I truly hope the Mk4/X makes most of you happy, yet I know it won't because complaining is an Olympic sport around here.
> ...



Let's not bring rational thought and common sense into this now, ok?


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## transpo1 (Mar 19, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > ... Apparently the plans for the video features of the camera changed about a year ago and became an important part of the development of the camera. ...
> ...



Come on, it's not a zero-sum game. Just because it has great video features doesn't mean the photos will suck.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 19, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> I've never filmed in 4K.
> Is it a great leap forward?
> My experience with video in Canon DSLRs is that the quality is good in the image but that it suffers badly from rolling shutter / jello and moving objects can be hard on the eyes to look at.
> Does 4K solve any of those issues?



It sells cameras. Its like the high MP chase, its a feature that sells more cameras, so the customer gets what he wants, or at least what he thiink he wants. As far as a rolling shutter, there have been improvements to sensor readout speeds in the several years since the 5D III was developed, so it should be less, but still a issue for some uses. The key is sensor readout speed, they cannot read the entire CMOS sensor at once (Yet), so faster readouts are being developed. 

A very good dual pixel auto focus while in live view will give users both a mirrorless option (NO EVF), or a conventional DSLR. I would probably use both, but would need a external battery pack or a lot of extra batteries for sustained live view use. I would like enough power for 3 hours of continuous live view if the DPAF works out.


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## trulandphoto (Mar 19, 2016)

It may just be that the 5Ds/r will be the studio/portrait/landscape option, the 1DXII and 7DII the action/sports/wildlife option and the 5DIV a video oriented option. And maybe a 6D update that is somewhat like a 5DII with updated sensor, processor, etc.


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## dak723 (Mar 19, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> It sells cameras. Its like the high MP chase, its a feature that sells more cameras, so the customer gets what he wants, or at least what he thinks he wants.



Ah, the high MP chase. How many times do we hear people on this forum ask for more MP and lower noise knowing full well (or they should) that higher MP is the enemy of low noise. I used a 6 MP Rebel (the original 300d) for nine years before upgrading. I did not want the tiny pixels of all the available crop cameras at that time (all 18 MP) so I spent far more than I wanted to get the larger pixels of the 6D. In those 9 plus years, sensor efficiency increased a lot, so a 6 MP crop camera would have been great, with higher IQ than any other crop camera on the market. And able to print 12" x 8" which is as large as I need. Alas, with the higher and higher MP that camera companies feel the need to produce, we'll never get the best IQ possible. Thanks techie-nerds for screwing up the possibility of a really high quality crop camera with your constant demand for more MPs..


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 19, 2016)

J.R. said:


> People thinking they'll get something like a mini 1DC with 4K, a bigger sensor (without the 14 fps) are simply deluding themselves.
> 
> If something very important isn't in the 1DX2 it is unlikely to find itself in the 5 series.
> 
> Most of the upgrades in the 1DX 2 are on the video side ... I don't think canon will rain on its own parade here.



that may be so, but people will continue getting Sony or other stuff then


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 19, 2016)

syder said:


> DomTomLondon said:
> 
> 
> > Can we please have PRO-RES in camera. non of this compressed B.S. ;D
> ...



cineform is better, plus a more or less open standard after the sale


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 19, 2016)

mml4 said:


> I don't get it. Most 5D3 owners when asked say they rarely if ever use the video feature. So Canon REPORTEDLY makes a big video splash with their most important stills camera. I wish they would offer a model without video at a reduced price.
> Marc



I thought Canon themselves recently said it make a model cost more if they took out video since it boosts sales more than any development and parts costs (of which barely any new parts are required).


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 19, 2016)

dak723 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > It sells cameras. Its like the high MP chase, its a feature that sells more cameras, so the customer gets what he wants, or at least what he thinks he wants.
> ...



The impact of higher MP counts in the realm they have hit doesn't impact SNR that much and one of the big reasons people go crop and high MP count is for lots of reach for wildlife (and it can help for sports too). SO believe it or not there are people who find high MP counts useful other than technie-nerds. :


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## Sharlin (Mar 19, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> I thought Canon themselves recently said it make a model cost more if they took out video since it boosts sales more than any development and parts costs (of which barely any new parts are required).



This, a thousand times. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of people who don't have the faintest idea about

a) what the actual market looks like (no, your friends and this forum do not make a representative sample)

b) basic statistics (see above bit about representative samples)

c) basic economics

d) their own ignorance (see Dunning-Kruger effect)


----------



## bdunbar79 (Mar 19, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > I thought Canon themselves recently said it make a model cost more if they took out video since it boosts sales more than any development and parts costs (of which barely any new parts are required).
> ...



Very accurate assessment.


----------



## dak723 (Mar 19, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Never said high MP wasn't useful and that some folks won't benefit. But lot's of folks would be better off with a low MP camera. There's room for both - and probably the average camera user would be better off with a low MP camera.

Your statement that the high MPs in the crop camera sensors doesn't impact SNR that much does not jive with what a lot of folks who know physics have written.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Mar 19, 2016)

dak723 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



Unfortunately for you, his statement is absolutely correct. I'm wondering if you understand the fundamentals of this. Smaller pixels have lower read noise, but higher shot noise agreed. But if you increase the QE of the photodiodes, smaller pixels can in fact improve enough so that they produce just as much or even less noise than their older generation larger pixels. QE being the key here on this point.

But you've ignored the most important factor, and that is sensor size. Sensor size far outweighs pixel size. How do you suppose the 5Ds and 7D2 compare? They have the exact same pixel size but the 5Ds has much better overall S/N because the SENSOR is larger.

Hopefully I've given you a few key considerations to consider that you weren't prior to your statement. Sensors with smaller pixels can certainly outperform sensors with larger pixels, based upon QE and sensor size.


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## ranplett (Mar 20, 2016)

*What does 4K video, electronic viewfinder & articulating screens have in common?*

What does 4K video, electronic viewfinder & articulating screens have in common?

Photographers all love to banter about the importance of having them or not. If it doesn't take much effort to implement good video, why not have it? How would that detract from your shooting experience? I'd rather have more features on my camera than less, provided that they implement it well. And Canon does implement well, albeit conservatively.

I'd love to have 4K video option. Would I use it much? Probably only about 3 or 4% of the time. But the 5D mkII is still treating me quite well in terms of stills. Yeah pattern noise is horrible sometimes, and AF isn't the greatest, but it still fulfills 97% of my shooting needs.


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## Besisika (Mar 20, 2016)

slclick said:


> Besisika said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...


Got it, I see what you mean.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 20, 2016)

Photox said:


> As of all the 5D's, it will most likely be introduced in September on Photokina 2016. Canon would not like to make the same mistake again,
> by putting two cameras in the market at the same time (1Dx and 5D3), cuz most of the users wouldnt go for the pricier camera. Period.



Most users don't go for the pricier camera anyway. Releasing them at the same time or different times makes no difference. They are two different target markets. At any rate, a six month difference in release makes no difference.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 20, 2016)

slclick said:


> The first thing I think of when I hear the tired 'crippling' remark is how if there was no differentiation then you might as well make one camera. A very expensive camera. More whining, more missing the point of offering a broad range of value and feature sets for a global customer base. NOT a CR base.



Yup. And they want it all for $2.98. I love the ones who buy the product and then say they got ripped off on price as though Canon made them buy the product.


----------



## Nininini (Mar 20, 2016)

Megapixels are underrated instead of overrated imo. There is nothing that gives you more detail than higher MP.

4k gives you FAR FAR more detail in your video footage over 1080P, and even 1080P footage sampled down from 4k is far more detailed and sharp than regular 1080P. There is no lens you can put on a camera with 1080P video that will come anywhere close to a 4k camera with a crap lens in terms of information and detail captured.

The "megapixel race" happens because it matters. Megapixels are the single most important metric determining sharpness and detail.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 20, 2016)

Nininini said:


> Megapixels are underrated instead of overrated imo. There is nothing that gives you more detail than higher MP.



So _that's_ how I can get more detail in my bird photography – ditch the low 18 MP of my 1D X + 600/4 with TC, and get a 41 MP Nokia cameraphone. Because nothing gives more detail than higher MP. 

Oh, and don't worry about that whole diffraction thing, physics is overrated. 

:


----------



## Nininini (Mar 20, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > Megapixels are underrated instead of overrated imo. There is nothing that gives you more detail than higher MP.
> ...



For the same focal length, yes, a 41MP Nokia would *easily* beat the crap out of your 1DX in terms of detail.

You could put the most expensive zeiss on your 1DX, it would be nowhere close to the Nokia.

MP EASILY trumps anything else.

Nokia pureview sample:


----------



## Maximilian (Mar 20, 2016)

Nininini said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Nininini said:
> ...


It seems that I need glasses 8) . Because i can only see soft blur where some details should be. :


----------



## Sporgon (Mar 20, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



+1, 

I think Nini is confusing output size with resolution


----------



## bdunbar79 (Mar 20, 2016)

Nininini said:


> Megapixels are underrated instead of overrated imo. There is nothing that gives you more detail than higher MP.
> 
> 4k gives you FAR FAR more detail in your video footage over 1080P, and even 1080P footage sampled down from 4k is far more detailed and sharp than regular 1080P. There is no lens you can put on a camera with 1080P video that will come anywhere close to a 4k camera with a crap lens in terms of information and detail captured.
> 
> The "megapixel race" happens because it matters. Megapixels are the single most important metric determining sharpness and detail.



Another topic poorly understood. Your last statement is false. Consider filling the frame each with a 1Dx (18 MP FF sensor) and a 7D (18 MP crop sensor). If you keep the same lens, and same aperture, same ISO, but simply change perspective to keep the frame full, the 18 MP 1Dx image will be sharper. That's because the smaller sensor undergoes a 1.6 enlargement ratio to get to the same final viewing output size and that decreases sharpness. If you also put LARGER pixels on subject that is better than the same number of SMALLER pixels. 

Your case you presented may well be true, but the underlying fundamentals must be understood and you cannot just make that blanket claim, because it isn't true. I've presented a case where we have EQUAL MP's, and sharpness and detail are different in each. So MP's are not the singal metric.


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## slclick (Mar 20, 2016)

I reached for my readers but alas, it wasn't me. It was Nokia.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Mar 20, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > Megapixels are underrated instead of overrated imo. There is nothing that gives you more detail than higher MP.
> ...



Well yeah, who cares about the Nyquist Theorem? It is so overrated.


----------



## Ph0t0 (Mar 20, 2016)

Nininini said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Nininini said:
> ...


----------



## Maximilian (Mar 20, 2016)

Ph0t0 said:


> ...


Aah! A miracle! I'm healed. 

Thank you Ph0t0, for handing me some glasses... 8) 8) 8)


----------



## Nininini (Mar 20, 2016)

Ph0t0 said:


>



Next time turn automatic white balance off...so you can actually cheat without getting caught.

Removing EXIF data wasn't enough to cover your ass.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 20, 2016)

Nininini said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Nininini said:
> ...



Oh, I see. So first there was _nothing_ that gave more detail than more MP. But suddenly focal length matters. Do you think aperture matters? Output size relative to sensor size – does that matter? 




Sporgon said:


> I think Nini is confusing output size with resolution



I think Nini will find it is he who is confused...about a great many things. 

Ok, I'm sure he won't find that to be the case in his own mind, despite it being true.


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## slclick (Mar 20, 2016)

AWB Anonymous.

"Hi, my name is slclick (Hello slclick) and I have been using AWB intermittently for the past 13 years"


----------



## Ph0t0 (Mar 20, 2016)

Nininini said:


> Ph0t0 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



?


----------



## ranplett (Mar 20, 2016)

Why do you guys keep posting blurry pictures of climbing rope?


----------



## ranplett (Mar 20, 2016)

Ph0t0 said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > Removing EXIF data wasn't enough to cover your ass.
> ...



Glad to see I'm not the only one confused by this statement and accompanying image.


----------



## Sharlin (Mar 20, 2016)

Ph0t0 said:


> ?



Appears Nininini hasn't quite realized that the closeup isn't a 1:1 crop from the _uploaded image_... Or they're just trolling; either way they should be ignored.


----------



## Sharlin (Mar 20, 2016)

ranplett said:


> Why do you guys keep posting blurry pictures of climbing rope?



Because they don't know how to clean up quotes


----------



## Sporgon (Mar 20, 2016)

ranplett said:


> Why do you guys keep posting blurry pictures of climbing rope?



Because Canon's DR has caught up


----------



## Ph0t0 (Mar 20, 2016)

Nininini said:


> Next time turn automatic white balance off...so you can actually cheat without getting caught.
> 
> Removing EXIF data wasn't enough to cover your ass.



Here you have the original Raw, the normal JPEG and edited (sharpened and upsized) JPEG :
http://we.tl/ZhlWfPATGR

You can play with white balance and colors if you wish to...


----------



## jeffa4444 (Mar 20, 2016)

Getting back to the Canon 5D MKIV debate! 

At The Photography Show three camera dealers, Calumet, London Camera Exchage & Camera World had Canon UK stock 5D MKIII bodies at £ 1,600 (including 2x current Canon rebate = £ 500). This was a show only price but surely points to a camera close to replacement. 

The 1D MkII and the 80D were on show pluse the G7X MKII & finally the EF-S 18-135mm f3.5 - 5.6 IS.

The show itself was quieter than last year, Nikon had both the D5 & D500, Olympus the new Pen F and Pentax their new full-frame camera the K1. Tamron in addition to the SP 35mm f1.8 & the SP 45mm f1.8 showed two new SP lenses the SP 85mm f1.8 Di VC USD and the SP 90mm f2.8 Macro VC USD. A new lens company called IRIX Swiss designed & Korean built showed a 15mm f2.4 with manual focusing but electronic iris in Canon mount. This comes in two versions Firely and Blackstone. The cheaper version is Firefly and the Blackstone version uses magnesium & high grade aluminium in a weather sealed body and uses floresent paint markings, the hood is detachable and has a window to access the polarizing filter (like the Canon EF 100-400mm MKII lens) They also had a prototype 11mm and will be in the future making Cine versions.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > Megapixels are underrated instead of overrated imo. There is nothing that gives you more detail than higher MP.
> ...



Yep...we all like blurry and soft 41mp images compared to sharp and detailed 18mp ones...


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## scottkinfw (Mar 21, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> SwnSng said:
> 
> 
> > hmm so how does the the 1Dxmkii do it at 18MP?
> ...



I don't get how you infer this? Rather cynical don't you think? I do.

sek


----------



## scottkinfw (Mar 21, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > It will do 4k, 4k, 4k ... rejoiceth!
> ...



Ha Ha Ha.

I have to agree.

I can hear the slapping from here.

sek


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## scottkinfw (Mar 21, 2016)

dilbert said:


> mml4 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get it. Most 5D3 owners when asked say they rarely if ever use the video feature. So Canon REPORTEDLY makes a big video splash with their most important stills camera. I wish they would offer a model without video at a reduced price.
> ...


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## scottkinfw (Mar 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Must you always introduce facts just to confuse the issue? I mean really. Obviously, the man is absolutely certain of what he speaks.

sek


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## scottkinfw (Mar 21, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> ranplett said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you guys keep posting blurry pictures of climbing rope?
> ...



Because they are artistic?


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## raptor3x (Mar 21, 2016)

Nininini said:


> For the same focal length, yes, a 41MP Nokia would *easily* beat the crap out of your 1DX in terms of detail.
> 
> You could put the most expensive zeiss on your 1DX, it would be nowhere close to the Nokia.
> 
> MP EASILY trumps anything else.



The Nokia will do ok (in ideal lighting conditions), but to say it will "*easily* beat the crap out of your 1DX" is a bit far-fetched.

http://blog.gsmarena.com/nokia-808-pureview-vs-olympus-e-pl2-vs-canon-5d-mark-iii-vs-apple-iphone-4s-38mp-shootout/


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## DomTomLondon (Mar 21, 2016)

syder said:


> DomTomLondon said:
> 
> 
> > Can we please have PRO-RES in camera. non of this compressed B.S. ;D
> ...



Yes but it's still a much easier codec to edit with... and yes, on a Mac.
If you're on AVID then I guess DNxHR is your coded of choice.


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 21, 2016)

raptor3x said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > For the same focal length, yes, a 41MP Nokia would *easily* beat the crap out of your 1DX in terms of detail.
> ...


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## leWrat (Mar 21, 2016)

I have been reading this site for it's rumours, slander and occasionally some great insights.
Like many I am interested in hearing info/rumours about the upcoming 5D (I don't care whether it is called the 5D IV, X, Y or Z)
The reason that I care about the 5D is because a few years ago I turned up at a friend's wedding with my 7D to discover that I was the official photographer, but "not to worry because the bride's brother had borrowed a 5D II and would also be taking some photos"!
I learned several things that day.
1) Try very hard to stay chilled as stress is contagious.
2) It turns out that I can compose decent wedding photos.
3) It was great that I was able to give running tuition to the 5D photog on how to use a different Canon DSLR.
4) That when I looked though the properly composed/exposed images on my monitor I could easily tell which were taken with the 7D and which with the 5D. There was a certain something, maybe silkiness, to the 5D images that made me drool and that has made me want to move to Canon FF ever since.
Why Canon?
I have some decent Canon glass that I want to keep using.
Why the 5D?
Because I have seen the raw images and I liked them. 
Because I can probably push the budget to a 5D and the extra features that it will deliver.
Because the 1D is way too much camera for me and my budget and if I had the spare cash I would spend it on glass.
Why the IV/X?
I will get the III if they are still available when I have the cash as I thought the II was great and the III is even better.
OK, I confess, it will be the IV/X, assuming the car doesn't break down, because I would be a liar if I denied wanting to buy the latest model of whatever I buy as I don't buy that often :

Whatever the specs of the IV/X are, it will be a great stills camera, and if the video is also good I will try to make use of it.

So thanks for the squabbles  and gems of wisdom ;D , they feed my hunger till the main course arrives (and I have the money to pay for it).


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## martti (Mar 21, 2016)

I managed to change the hard disk on my iMac and while doing that, I screened a lot of my old pictures taken with various Canon EOS cameras and lenses. Whatever people might say, the jump from 40D to 5DII is remarkable. While from 5DII (that I broke) to 5D3 the difference is not as much the picture quality but the ability to shoot at full opening as the AF is so much better. My first digital EOS was the 20D that got stolen...then the 40D and the 5DII and finally the 5DIII. Noisy shadows. Yes, this is true. Noisy enough to make me swap to Nikon D810 and change all the glass?
No way.


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## Maximilian (Mar 21, 2016)

leWrat said:


> ...
> Whatever the specs of the IV/X are, it will be a great stills camera, and if the video is also good I will try to make use of it.
> 
> So thanks for the squabbles  and gems of wisdom ;D , they feed my hunger till the main course arrives (and I have the money to pay for it).


Hello leWrat! 
And welcome to CR.

I hope you can fullfill your FF dreams as soon as possible


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## cayenne (Mar 21, 2016)

dilbert said:


> RobPan said:
> 
> 
> > Most unfortunately, Canon takes far too long to produce the 5D4. After my 5D3 was stolen, I waited for about seven months for the 5D4 and in the end bought a A7RII, a complex camera with too many settings, endless possibilities. still learning, but I like it. (Fortunetely I can still use Canon lenses.)
> ...



So...screw it...this is all controlled fully in software.
Make a EU or whatever version of the camera with the artificial video length limitations, and let the rest of us (like in the US which has to be a huge market asking for this), have the full length video option.??

I mean, why cripple the camera for the whole world, when what I"m guessing is a minority will be taxed extra for it...?

cayenne


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## marcodiclemente (Mar 21, 2016)

I really hope that the better video features won't have a huge impact on the price of the camera! :-[
Anyways I'm really excited and can't wait to get my hands on one!


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## pierlux (Mar 21, 2016)

leWrat said:


> I have been reading this site for it's rumours, *slander* and occasionally some great insights.
> ... ...
> So thanks for the *squabbles*  and gems of wisdom ;D , they feed my hunger till the main course arrives (and I have the money to pay for it).



Welcome!

A quick tour of other forums will reveal that Canon Rumors is by far one of the most polite, well organized and wisely moderated photographic communities in the internet. Sarcasm is probably the most "rude and cynical" attitude you'll find here and it's perfectly OK to me, it's funny and entertaining. Offensive posts are generally promptly deleted.

Best wishes for your budget to raise the soonest for a 5D (III, IV, X, Y, Z) purchase, also consider the 6D line, great IQ for the money.
__________

About the 5D4: don't worry too much, before the 7D2 announcement, the rumors were claiming it would have been "video oriented". We all know what it is, a cheap machine gun for the photographer on a thin budget. The 5D4 will be no different: a (relatively) cheap all-rounder with improved specs over the 5D3. Will it be a better video performer than the 1D2? If so, where's the problem? Video won't steal performance for stills and will help enhance the number of units sold, thus contributing in keeping the price a bit lower.


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## slclick (Mar 21, 2016)

pierlux said:


> leWrat said:
> 
> 
> > I have been reading this site for it's rumours, *slander* and occasionally some great insights.
> ...



Using 'relatively cheap' and a purported starting price of at least $3299 (more likely $3499) is absurd. Perspectives on what is cheap and what is not determined on various net worth be damned. The 5D series are expensive cameras albeit worth it.


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 21, 2016)

slclick said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > leWrat said:
> ...



+1 Yup. Sometimes I shudder to think that a 5D3 with any single newer Canon zooms attached hanging around my neck = a pretty good used car ($5k). The gear ain't cheap. Heck, the gear isn't inexpensive either.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 21, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Sometimes I shudder to think that a 5D3 with any single newer Canon zooms attached hanging around my neck = a pretty good used car ($5k). The gear ain't cheap. Heck, the gear isn't inexpensive either.



When I go out to shoot birds, the camera gear in the car is worth more than the car. That's why both are insured.


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## pierlux (Mar 21, 2016)

slclick said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > leWrat said:
> ...



True. But the context in which "(relatively) cheap" was written implied in the first place the fact that full frame cameras were concerned. 6D is cheap, 1D is expensive, 5D should probably best defined mid-price, but since it is approximately $1K above the "cheap" (don't really imagine what the 6D2 launch price is going to be), I think "relatively cheap" can be defined a bit over-the-top, but not absurd as far as FF is concerned.

Anyway, I accept your criticism, as photographers we're all after a really expensive activity, perception of what is to be defined "cheap" is unavoidably altered.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Mar 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes I shudder to think that a 5D3 with any single newer Canon zooms attached hanging around my neck = a pretty good used car ($5k). The gear ain't cheap. Heck, the gear isn't inexpensive either.
> ...



Money doesn't bring happiness... Oh, is that a Canon 5D Mark IV?

My insurance agent was going over the gear list. Her comment: "Seriously?"


----------



## slclick (Mar 21, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



Try explaining custom racing road bicycles to Insurance Agents. "For a bicycle?"


----------



## tron (Mar 21, 2016)

cayenne said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > RobPan said:
> ...


I would like that! I guess they would cripple it either - case 1 - permanently (via hardware) where in that case people would find ways to get a camera from elsewhere or - case 2 - in firmware which I guess would circulate all over the internet (and if a firmware checks for serial numbers then we can label this as case 1 )


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## Insider (Mar 22, 2016)

Now i am really considering about the 5D 4 or other options. 5Drs obviously now my choice


----------



## Ozarker (Mar 22, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



You are 100% correct! That's why I am always on the prowl to trade that nasty money for camera gear.


----------



## Maximilian (Mar 22, 2016)

slclick said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


And after that try to do so with a high end HiFi system and a CD collection filling the other half of the living room


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 22, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> ...a CD collection filling the other half of the living room



What are CDs? ???


----------



## Maximilian (Mar 22, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > ...a CD collection filling the other half of the living room
> ...


Something you need, when your money went to Canon instead to a HighEnd streaming device supplier


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 22, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Maximilian said:
> ...



Oh, I thought you maybe meant a financial instrument, but you mean the round shiny things. Do they have uses beyond the two obvious ones (coasters and hanging in the garden to keep away birds)?


----------



## Maximilian (Mar 22, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


Surely! I have use for them. Others maybe not.


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## midluk (Mar 22, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > ...a CD collection filling the other half of the living room
> ...


These are the things you use when you don't want to pay monthly for a streaming service and you don't want to worry about watermarks in audio files you bought and want to give to someone.


----------



## cayenne (Mar 22, 2016)

marcodiclemente said:


> I really hope that the better video features won't have a huge impact on the price of the camera! :-[
> Anyways I'm really excited and can't wait to get my hands on one!



I'm getting the feeling that the 5D4 will debut in the approx price range that the 5D3 did when it came out brand new.


----------



## cayenne (Mar 22, 2016)

tron said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Why would Canon care?

I mean, once they sell the camera...that's all they care about really. Do it in software, only hamper the record time in markets that tax on it. If the end customer then mods their camera (it is theirs free to use as they wish)...what would Canon care? 

It is only that first new sale that matters, right?


----------



## cayenne (Mar 22, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Well, for the most part, they are still the best way to get your music unencumbered by DRM, in an uncompressed format that you are free to rip to lossy formats if you want for lessor listening environments (iPod for gym, the car, etc).<P>
I like to buy on CD. I rip them to FLAC for lossless use on my good, high end home stereo system, and mp3s for the car, where it doesn't really make a difference. And I store the disk for future needs (hard drive losses, etc.

Yes I believe in backups too..but I like to have hard copies of anything I can.


----------



## scyrene (Mar 22, 2016)

cayenne said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > cayenne said:
> ...



The 29:59 recording limit is arbitrary and the reasoning behind the tax bands escapes me - but do many people shoot for 30 minutes or more continuously? I don't think I've ever seen a film or television programme that had shots even a few minutes long.

CCTV feeds are another matter...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 22, 2016)

scyrene said:


> The 29:59 recording limit is arbitrary and the reasoning behind the tax bands escapes me - but do many people shoot for 30 minutes or more continuously? *I don't think I've ever seen a film or television programme that had shots even a few minutes long*.



The reason you don't see that is called *editing*. Consider speeches, press conferences, sporting events, etc. – footage is continuously recorded, but only short segments are actually used.


----------



## scyrene (Mar 22, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > The 29:59 recording limit is arbitrary and the reasoning behind the tax bands escapes me - but do many people shoot for 30 minutes or more continuously? *I don't think I've ever seen a film or television programme that had shots even a few minutes long*.
> ...



Oh speeches, hmm. That's a good point. Editing was kind of what I was thinking of, you know. But yes, I guess some things like that must be recorded continuously. I suppose they use 'proper' video cameras! Or press record again when there's a pause


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 22, 2016)

scyrene said:


> I suppose they use 'proper' video cameras! Or press record again when there's a pause



"_Excuse me, Mr. President – could you repeat that bit about fear, trust, change, and the future of the country? My dSLR video recording paused right in the middle of it._"


----------



## scyrene (Mar 22, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose they use 'proper' video cameras! Or press record again when there's a pause
> ...



Haha he seems cool, I'm sure he wouldn't mind


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 22, 2016)

scyrene said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Yeah, but the next one might fire the guy. Of course, he'd have already built a wall to keep out those pesky EU regulations, and of course made the EC pay for it. :


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 22, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > The 29:59 recording limit is arbitrary and the reasoning behind the tax bands escapes me - but do many people shoot for 30 minutes or more continuously? *I don't think I've ever seen a film or television programme that had shots even a few minutes long*.
> ...



Even most speeches don't go 30 straight, although that is one of the very few scenarios where trouble might crop up. Even an unusually long press conference has few second pauses where the smart videographer could just hit stop and start again and not missing anything.

For movies and TV it is virtually unheard of to shoot anything 30 minutes non-stop.

Anyway for all but a few the 30 min wouldn't likely ever matter.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 22, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Even most speeches don't go 30 straight, although that is one of the very few scenarios where trouble might crop up.



Pretty much every scientific keynote talk I've given and attended has run >30 minutes, and at major meetings they're always recorded. But the arbitrary limit imposed by the EU is moot because the AV folks always use proper video gear, not dSLRs.


----------



## davidhfe (Mar 22, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Ceremonies, kids' plays and recitals, casual recording of presentations in the office, customer interviews, etc. These are exactly the sorts of events that people often will want to capture informally using the camera they already have. Pro events are going to be covered by dedicated gear.

I know we all like to think we're going to be using our DSLRs to make cinematic shorts and cutting edge music videos, but there's a lot of mundane stuff out there that these cameras capture. And for a lot of those mundane things, it's not to time a start/stop because of a basically arbitrary reason.


----------



## Sharlin (Mar 22, 2016)

dilbert said:



> Correct. Nobody can remember 30 minutes worth of lines.



I wonder if you're familiar with the concept of a "stage play"?


----------



## slclick (Mar 22, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Correct. Nobody can remember 30 minutes worth of lines.
> ...



Unless it's a solo performance, you're not reciting non stop for 30 minutes, but maybe a playwright here on CR will prove us wrong and scribe one. 

Make it about Canon's sinking ship in Thailand, a nautical theme. Talk about how the rope was so full of detail and then not so. Perhaps use all the 5D3's as anchors as soon as the 5DX is announced, since they won't be working any longer. Make the main character named Sony and his quirky trait is how unkempt he is because he doesn't use a mirror.


----------



## extide (Mar 22, 2016)

slclick said:


> Unless it's a solo performance, you're not reciting non stop for 30 minutes, but maybe a playwright here on CR will prove us wrong and scribe one.
> 
> Make it about Canon's sinking ship in Thailand, a nautical theme. Talk about how the rope was so full of detail and then not so. Perhaps use all the 5D3's as anchors as soon as the 5DX is announced, since they won't be working any longer. Make the main character named Sony and his quirky trait is how unkempt he is because he doesn't use a mirror.



bahahahaha, LOL, well done!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 23, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Correct. Nobody can remember 30 minutes worth of lines.
> ...



'Familiar with the concept' (any concept) is really asking too much in this case. :


----------



## scottkinfw (Mar 23, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


----------



## wsmith96 (Mar 23, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


----------



## kaihp (Mar 23, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Only live TV without ads will do a longer than 30 minute "shoot" but that's not a "shoot", it's a "telecast." And you don't use a DSLR for that (too much correction required.)



Oh, Norwegian TV did a 7:14:14 broadcast[url] of the train trip from Oslo to Bergen in 2009. As I recall it was a celebration for the 100years of operation.

They later outdid themselves by broadcasting the full "Hurtigruten" boat trip from Bergen to Kirkenes. That was 134 hours, but was shot on multiple cameras.

So yeah, live coverage easily exceeds the pathetic 30min limit


----------



## midluk (Mar 23, 2016)

scottkinfw said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...


Or perhaps to the concept of nested quotes and "where to put the reply" (btw: I fixed it for you in the quotes in this reply).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 23, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Anyway for all but a few the 30 min wouldn't likely ever matter.



A few??



davidhfe said:


> Ceremonies, kids' plays and recitals, casual recording of presentations in the office, customer interviews, etc. These are exactly the sorts of events that people often will want to capture informally using the camera they already have. Pro events are going to be covered by dedicated gear.



^^ This. 

In a professional setting, those responsible for recording the event will use the best tool for the project, which is often not a dSLR. 

Rebel/xxxD bodies sell in far greater numbers than higher-end gear. It's that user base which would be more likely to benefit from elimination of the arbitrary 30 minute limit.


----------



## mkabi (Mar 23, 2016)

About video on DSLR. Image quality is better than most ENGs, but there is that time limit.
And, in my strong opinion, it is best for filmmaking, where that time limit is a non-factor.
With that said, having the "best tool for the project" depends on the project.
Just to get things in perspective:
This is a RED camera body






And this is a Arri Alexa Mini body





Note that neither have a shoulder mount, neither even have a viewfinder or LCD... 
Everything is an add on, full-on cage/rig and railing system. Google it, if you don't know what I mean by full-on cage/rig and railing system...
The price of the body alone will trounce the 1DX2 that comes with viewfinder and LCD. And, if you are planning to use any of the above for an event... good luck. But it puts things into perspective, you don't use REDs or Arris for events... its overkill... stupid even...
For those that don't know, these are cameras that are used by Hollywood... ones that have a good budget.


----------



## Mr. Milo (Mar 23, 2016)

30 minutes time limit is not an issue for me. I'm a filmmaker and I do not film 30 minutes straight at a time. That's lame and kills the battery quickly. I usually record a few minutes at a time.

DSLR is great for filming events and weddings. I film with a Canon 5D Mark II. Most videographers will not be able to afford Arri, RED, and Canon's 1DX Mark II. I have bills. I have to worry about lens, memory, batteries, cases, insurance, and rigs. DSLRs are here to stay for awhile for filming.

I see short documentaries and weddings filmed with crappier cameras than the 5D Mark II and they manage to look good right now.


----------



## cayenne (Mar 23, 2016)

scyrene said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



When I shoot my cooking show, or for my charity pub crawls around here in New Orleans..I only shoot short spurts.

BUT...I do helps shoot some bands in concert and that longer time would be VERY welcome on cameras...


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## tron (Mar 28, 2016)

I could not find the 29:59 limit in the specifications:

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/1d-x-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-1dx-mkii-specification-chart.pdf

Any thoughts?


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## scyrene (Mar 28, 2016)

tron said:


> I could not find the 29:59 limit in the specifications:
> 
> https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/1d-x-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-1dx-mkii-specification-chart.pdf
> 
> Any thoughts?



From the manual: "When shooting movies other than High Frame Rate movies The maximum recording time of one movie clip is 29 min. 59 sec." (p321).


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## tron (Mar 28, 2016)

scyrene said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > I could not find the 29:59 limit in the specifications:
> ...


OK, then the recorded time that is mentioned in the specifications is total and not continuous. Thanks.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



it's interesting how UK SciFi in the 1960's took it's inspiration from the stage (Dr Who) and most shows were shot in a single live performance with a live edit between 4 cameras. Very few cuts and the sfx shots were engineered in the writing to allow the crew and actors to move to the next set. Where as in America, particularly Star trek, the whole show was a series of individual shots, shot out of order and assembled in the editing room like a jigsaw puzzle...a bit like a film. Every close up / conversation between two people was shot twice, with lighting and the camera set up for one half of the dialogue and then repeated but from the other guys dialogue / reactions...with his own lighting and camera. 
So yes there is a huge difference between TV / film actors and stage actors. A stage actor has to remember all their dialogue and it's essentially one big take, except for scene changes.


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