# New Photographer. Need suggestions :)



## libertyranger (Dec 15, 2011)

Hello CR,

I've been following CR for a couple months now since I bought my T3i and have delved into the world of photography. I've done some wildlife photography recently and some portraits and have discovered I really enjoy portraits and events.

I recently shot my brother's (with my wife's help) engagement photos with my new camera and a 50 1.8 lens I borrowed from a friend. They came out pretty good (Well at least he thought they did) and asked if I would shoot his wedding. While I have no experience shooting weddings (and clearly told him so, I said I would. So...

What lenses do you suggest I use. I know I can borrow the 50 1.8 from a friend and she'll let me borrow her 28-70 2.8L lens. I'll probably borrow her 60D and shot with my wife (She'll use the T3i).

Also, any other suggestions for a budding wedding photographer. Thanks in advance.

Mike


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## branden (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't know any of the details, but since you say it's your brother's wedding, let me give you a bit of advice before anything else: you can either participate and experience the wedding, or you can photograph the wedding and have no memories of the event afterwards. When covering the ceremony, the photographer is literally lost in the moment, concentrating on getting the photo, and I remember no details from the ceremony. As his brother, you may not be comfortable missing out on that.

In any case, weddings basically require a flash, and renting a Canon Speedlite is unavoidable (in my opinion). No matter how fast your glass is, it's never enough light. Even outdoors, you'll want the flash as a fill light for shadows and balancing against the sun. 

In regards to the other equipment you list, the only think you're missing is a wide angle lens, such as the EF-S 10-22mm, which you'll probably want for group photos.

Everyone's method for shooting weddings is different, so you're likely to find as many different answers as people answering, but any more information about what the ceremony and reception will be like will help us guide your answers. Weddings happen in all forms, times of day, and places, and all of that plays into what equipment to bring and what photo styles you can use.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 15, 2011)

Not to put a damper on things, but I'd recommend reading this first:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/07/fwigtew-and-other-first-wedding-acronyms

Also, just to be very clear, your post reads like your brother is the one who liked the engagement pictures and asked you to shoot the wedding. Weddings are (almost) all about the bride - so, in the interst of maintaining some family harmony, what was your brother's fiancÃ©e's input to the request?


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## Orangutan (Dec 15, 2011)

Unless this is a very casual, back-yard type affair with less than 20 people, you should politely say you've reconsidered, and don't think it would work. For a full-size, formal wedding, I agree with the previous post: you can either be the photographer, or be involved; not both.

I've only shot a few weddings, but I can tell you it requires a lot of thinking ahead to get yourself in the right position at the right time for the right shot.

If you want to get a taste of weddings, I suggest you find a local wedding photographer and offer to be a volunteer second-shooter.


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## chriswatters (Dec 15, 2011)

As has been noted in earlier responses:

- If you are going as a photographer you are not going as a guest. It would be the same if your brother asked you to be the caterer. You will be so busy doing the job that you will not be able to enjoy the event.

- The wedding is about the bride. Make sure that she is happy with you being the photographer, and that her expectations are in line with your abilities.

Regardless of the advice you are given here, you will need to make the final decision. Remember that you understand the people and situation much better than any of us. Expectations regarding wedding photos can vary substantially. Some people expect their photographs to appear in magazines, while others are happy with snapshots.

For our wedding, we paid a friend $500 to take some pictures at the ceremony and family dinner. The reception was just snapshots taken by family. For most people, I expect that the results would have been disappointing. However, we were happy with the results because we kept our expectations inline with our investment. Neither of us wanted a fancy wedding, so we did not pay for a fancy wedding. I estimate that we spent less than $2000 for everything.

I expect that my experience was very unusual. Most people spend a lot more on the wedding and reception. I would also expect them to spend a lot more on a photographer. If your brother's fiancÃ© wants professional pictures, then she should hire a professional photograph. Make sure that expectations are reasonable.

Again, you know the situation and expectations. I would recommend against taking on more than you are comfortable with. Weddings are a big deal to most people.


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## libertyranger (Dec 15, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not to put a damper on things, but I'd recommend reading this first:
> 
> http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/07/fwigtew-and-other-first-wedding-acronyms
> 
> Also, just to be very clear, your post reads like your brother is the one who liked the engagement pictures and asked you to shoot the wedding. Weddings are (almost) all about the bride - so, in the interst of maintaining some family harmony, what was your brother's fiancÃ©e's input to the request?



Thanks for the article. I'm going to read it this evening.

Both my brother and his fiancÃ© loved the engagement photos. I thought they came out well to. However, knowing the tI am just getting into photography, I am well aware that others could have done a much better job.

To answer your question. Both of them wanted me to do the photography. When asked, I told them that I suggested they hire a professional. They stated they did not have the money to do so and were very happy with the pictures I took of them. I have no problem focusing on being the photographer. I am grateful, however, for the posts pointing out that I will miss out of the moment of the wedding. Since I am going to be the photographer, I want to study up so I can do a good job. Will I do as good as a job as a professional? I don't expect to and know that I will not!! Both my brother and his fiancÃ© are aware of this as I have told them. However, they are happy to have me to do it and now I just need to take the time to do the best that I can for them.


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## libertyranger (Dec 15, 2011)

chriswatters said:


> As has been noted in earlier responses:
> 
> - If you are going as a photographer you are not going as a guest. It would be the same if your brother asked you to be the caterer. You will be so busy doing the job that you will not be able to enjoy the event.
> 
> ...



Excellent advice!! Thank you!


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## Old Shooter (Dec 15, 2011)

Orangutan said:


> If you want to get a taste of weddings, I suggest you find a local wedding photographer and offer to be a volunteer second-shooter.



This is a great suggestion! It's how I learned the business years ago... It's all about knowing the event and positioning yourself for the next shot. If you work with a pro you will also get some great tips on posing and lighting... See if they have a "shoot sheet" they'll let you look at; a list of all the standard wedding shots that every bride expects and no one ever seems to grow tired of...

I shot 35+ weddings a year and almost never took my 28-70L off the camera; but that was full frame (film)... You can certainly shoot a wedding with a standard lens (50mm) but on a crop body you're talking an 80mm equivalent... Nice for single portraits or tight twosies but not very good for those groups... I think the suggestion to rent/borrow a 10-22mm for those crop bodies is sound...

Amen on the strobes! Natural light is beautiful, but when it goes away a strobe will let you get the shot. I would rent one for each camera...

Oh, a tip... Put the lens shade on that 28-70 and leave it on... Canon engineers have done an amazing job controlling flare and you don't want an otherwise perfect shot ruined by stray light...

Good luck!


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## thepancakeman (Dec 15, 2011)

First, +1 to all the comments about not being able to participate/enjoy the wedding and play photog at the same time--can't be done.

In my limited experience (playing assistant/backup photographer) in 2 weddings, the biggest challenge was almost always lighting. Many churches do not allow flash photography, and even if they do, it can be very distracting in a wedding. So know in advance what your acceptable ISO thresholds are regarding noise (take test shots, print them, and run them by the bride) and get the fastest lenses you can buy/beg/borrow/steal...okay maybe stealing's not the best idea... for the focal lengths you'll need. 

The f/1.8s are a minimum (you mentioned the 50mm; the 85mm is also a great lens). If you can get a f/1.4 or f/1.2, even better. Depending on the layout/logistcs, you very well may need something with reach, so a 70-200 f/2.8 IS is probably in line.


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## steven63 (Dec 15, 2011)

The 24-70 2.8L is the piece of glass that lives on my 5dmii when I shoot weddings. It just works well in most situations. Since you are shooting on a crop sensor, you might want to look into finding a wider lens to use for the group shots. But...I've shot whole weddings with the 24-70 and a 70-200 with no problems.

Flash is also very imporant, as someone else stated. 

Lastly, I would invest in post-software such as lightroom 3. It'll help you fix those photos that didn't come out exactly as you hoped and your keeper rate will increase. Plus, it is a tool that every serious photographer should have, so down the road when you get even more serious you will already have it.


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## thejoyofsobe (Dec 15, 2011)

Everyone has already give out great advice. I just didn't want to take for granted that since you've only had your camera for a couple of months that you are already shooting RAW. If you aren't, take the time now to learn as you only get one shot at a wedding and RAW gives you so much leeway to fix some of the things you didn't get exactly correct in camera.


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## Orangutan (Dec 15, 2011)

More tips from an amateur who's done a few weddings: since this is a family favor, not pro work, don't just go for the glam / portfolio shots.


Try to get at least one decent shot of all of the guests; group shots are fine, need not be (can't be) individual portraits.
If there are elderly folks present, try to get several good shots of them having fun: you never know if this is the last time you see them looking their best, and with big smiles on their faces
As stated previously, it's all about the bride. Since you know the bride you can discuss her expectations. Some want max-glam; others want more community/friends/down-to-earth. Ask her what she wants.
There are books on the topic. None that I've read is perfect, but look through a few to get some ideas.


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## thepancakeman (Dec 15, 2011)

steven63 said:


> Lastly, I would invest in post-software such as lightroom 3. It'll help you fix those photos that didn't come out exactly as you hoped and your keeper rate will increase. Plus, it is a tool that every serious photographer should have, so down the road when you get even more serious you will already have it.



+...umm...a lot! 

My wife just did a shoot the other day, and long story short out of the camera there pretty much wasn't a single usable photo. However, after a few hours in lightroom (and a bit of time in photoshop) we were able to deliver a couple dozen decent photos that the client was very happy with.

On that note, although not necessarily a "best practice", since you're new to it if you have doubts about your ability to frame a shot, take it a little wide and you can always crop. I'm sure I'll catch a lot of flack for suggesting it, but the truth is you can cut out extra but you can not paste in what isn't there.


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## libertyranger (Dec 15, 2011)

steven63 said:


> The 24-70 2.8L is the piece of glass that lives on my 5dmii when I shoot weddings. It just works well in most situations. Since you are shooting on a crop sensor, you might want to look into finding a wider lens to use for the group shots. But...I've shot whole weddings with the 24-70 and a 70-200 with no problems.
> 
> Flash is also very imporant, as someone else stated.
> 
> Lastly, I would invest in post-software such as lightroom 3. It'll help you fix those photos that didn't come out exactly as you hoped and your keeper rate will increase. Plus, it is a tool that every serious photographer should have, so down the road when you get even more serious you will already have it.



I'm glad to hear that the 24-70 has been a great lens of you. I currently own Aperture 3 on my mac. I've been tinkering with it for quite some time and have learned quite a bit about altering photos. I'll try a trial of Lightroom to compare it.


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## libertyranger (Dec 15, 2011)

thejoyofsobe said:


> Everyone has already give out great advice. I just didn't want to take for granted that since you've only had your camera for a couple of months that you are already shooting RAW. If you aren't, take the time now to learn as you only get one shot at a wedding and RAW gives you so much leeway to fix some of the things you didn't get exactly correct in camera.



I've shot with RAW here and there. I know it's great for editing. Thank you for letting me know. I'll make sure we are shooting RAW that day.


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## Mendolera (Dec 15, 2011)

+1 for a real flash like a 430 or 580ex to rent and possible a diffuser.. Lens aside its going to be the most important thing in a dimmly lit room.

If its a indoor reception your going to have to shoot at least 1600-3200 and wide open

Spend a couple of hours watching youtube and get a sense how to use, bouncing it off ceilings, through a softbox, etc..

Dont forget extra batteries with a couple hundred shots the voltage in the battery will take forever to recycle the capacitor


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## willrobb (Dec 15, 2011)

Good for you for agreeing to shoot your brothers wedding despite you advising him to get a professional to do it. It's a big responsibility, you probably won't be able to fully participate in the wedding, but you will be in chars of giving them their memories from the day. Quite a responsibility.

I agree about the 24-70mm f2.8L, I use it 75% of the time at weddings, seeing as how you won't be shooting full frame I would hire a 24-70 EF-S lens (I rbink they exist, someone please point out if I am wrong) that covers the same bases for your camera. It's important to have wide options as well as zooming in for closer shots. This plus the 50mm prime will do, if you aren't used to shooting weddings keep it simple.

Hire a speedlite, it's essential. If possible, get a ETTL chord to allow shooting off camera as well. If you can, try to avoid flashing straight on as it can make the photos look a bit flat. For individual/couple photos try holding the flash to the side, up above, practice first and decide what you like. For group shots you'll probably have to flash straight on. Inside, angle the speedlite head up to the ceiling if it's lightly coloured, the flash will spread the light out. Flashing directly onto the guests inside can make or nasty shadows.

As well as the portraits of the couple together, focus in the bride as someone already said. Do some individual shots of her showing the full dress from the front and the back. Get close ups of the ring, flower details in her hair, bows on the back of the dress etc.


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## thepancakeman (Dec 15, 2011)

Mendolera said:


> ...and possible a diffuser..



My wife uses <name brand> diffuser and it makes a world of difference. There are probably lots of other options out there, but point being a diffuser can make a huge difference with the flash. Otherwise it kinda depends on what your bounce options are (ceiling height for example.)


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## RonQ (Dec 15, 2011)

libertyranger said:


> Hello CR,
> 
> I've been following CR for a couple months now since I bought my T3i and have delved into the world of photography. I've done some wildlife photography recently and some portraits and have discovered I really enjoy portraits and events.
> 
> ...


Mike,
I agree with what everyone has posted here. Let me give you a little background on my very first wedding and what to expect. 

#1 Even if you think you've prepaired something almost always happens that will throw you off.
Full sun and full shade.... Always scope out the area ahead of time.

#2 Weddings are fast pace, I would get a back-up camera. You don't want to miss a shot.
Camera 1 should have a wide angle lens and camera 2 should have a telephoto lens. If I'm shooting people mingeling around and I see mom in tears far away from me, I'll pull out my second to get that shot so I don't miss it. Fast pace - you dont want to miss anything.

#3
You will not have a minute to relax and dont expect it. Bring plenty of cards with you, enough to capture the whole event.

Anyway, my 2cents..... Even after several weddings, I still learn something new every time I shoot one.


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## distant.star (Dec 15, 2011)

Wow, as someone who did wedding years ago I'm overwhelmed by all the great advice. A couple of thoughts I've had.

1. Consider renting the EF-S 15-85. On the crop-sensor it will give you a better wide end. You can rent it for less than $50, and here's what Roger at LensRentals says about it:

"To be honest, when this was first released we had no intention of stocking it. I considered it overpriced for what it is, but weâ€™ve had a number of requests so weâ€™re adding it to the inventory. The good news is itâ€™s very, very sharp, has superb image stabilization, and is very well built. The bad news is it has significant barrel distortion at the wide end and it vignettes rather badly (if you shoot in RAW this is no issue since itâ€™s easily fixed in post-processing)."

2. I can't say enough how important it is to be in touch with people who work weddings professionally. As suggested, they may offer an opportunity for you to shoot and see what a wedding looks like from that side of it -- much different than you can imagine, and only experience will reveal this. And if they're willing to offer advice, listen carefully and take it to heart. The most important things I learned came from listening to pros.

3. Don't forget that you are as much a director as a photojournalist. You're not there merely to document what happened -- you're there to create and preserve memories for the whole family. In that spirit, do not be timid. Go anywhere you need to go to get the shot you want. If you have to stand in front of Aunt Matilda for a minute, she'll get over it. If you have to get up on the altar to get the angle, do it (within reason of what the official and bride are okay with). This is a time for you to be self-important.

4. And finally, the most important thing a pro ever told me before I even did my first wedding -- Don't be afraid to do it over. A wedding is not an execution, it can be done again. If you really screw up a shot or have an equipment failure, stop right there and have the scene, whatever it is, done again so you can image it. That may seem embarrassing, but it's less troublesome than years of having people say the cake eating scene was great, too bad we don't have a picture of it. I assure you, this knowledge will increase your confidence. 

Lastly, congratulation to you on taking on the assignment. I think it will be good for everyone!


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## thejoyofsobe (Dec 15, 2011)

distant.star said:


> 1. Consider renting the EF-S 15-85. On the crop-sensor it will give you a better wide end. You can rent it for less than $50


keep in mind that if it's an indoor wedding the EF-S 15-85mm probably necessitates the use of a flash, which is another piece equipment to master and either rent or buy.

15-17mm = f/3.5
18-26mm = f/4.0
27-37mm = f/4.5
38-60mm = f/5.0
61-85mm = f/5.6


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## distant.star (Dec 15, 2011)

Flash should be available regardless the lens.

The 15-85 has a four-stop IS. I routinely shoot people at 1/30. Unfortunately, like any lens, you have to work with it to understand what it can and can't do. That need may make it untenable on a short-term rental. Something to consider.




thejoyofsobe said:


> distant.star said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Consider renting the EF-S 15-85. On the crop-sensor it will give you a better wide end. You can rent it for less than $50
> ...


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## Freshprince08 (Dec 15, 2011)

Congrats on your first wedding job!

I won't reiterate the warnings that the others have given about shooting a family wedding - as a relatively new wedding photographer myself I can confirm that they are all valid!

My 2c's worth:

have backups of everything - memory cards, batteries, 2nd body (check), backup lens if you can
try and know your gear inside and out - button locations, max ISO you can get away with, what focus points you can rely on in low light...
definitely shoot RAW - can be a lifesaver when you haven't nailed the exposure or have really difficult white balance settings to deal with
make sure you understand the order of events with your brother and sister-in-law, and then try and anticipate where you and your wife will need to be, depending on the focal lengths you are covering. I shoot with my fiancee and this is one area we struggled with initially... try and stay out of each other's shots  
in terms of gear, you may find 24-70 a little wide, the 15-85 is a great lens but a little slow for indoor use, my recommendation would be to buy or hire the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 - plenty of other posts on this lens but it's sharp, has IS, relatively fast and covers wide to moderate telephoto. The 85mm f1.8 would be a good match for this and the 50mm f1.8. The 10-22mm would still be great for room/venue shots, but you could probably do most group shots with the 17-55
agree with all the other comments about needing a strobe - try and bounce/diffuse if you are indoors and the ceiling allows this
if you're shooting AV mode, keep an eye on your shutter speeds - your camera will try and meter for ambient light, and indoors this can mean shutter speeds that are too slow to freeze motion adequately. 
backup everything as soon as you get home. Twice!! 

Good luck.. would love to see some of the photos!


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## Enrico (Dec 15, 2011)

Having done a few weddings as back up shooter, and attended perhaps 15 the past few years and knowing I was very picky with the shots of my own wedding. Here's my advice (next to what's already been said):

- if possible, bring the couple to the church sometime before the wedding. churces are most of the time opened but empty... it will be good for them to practice the walk, standing by the altar etc and you will have all the time in the world looking at positions, trying out ISO and lenses! 

- shoot alot 1! shot hands, rings, shoes, champagne bottles, the set tables (before people sit down) picky details in the church / the dinner place etc. the bride and groom will be so stressed they will have a hard time remembering the event and these shots of details will give them a more "complete" memory of the day

- shoot alot 2! the pros probably don't want to come home with to much photos for post. but for us amateurs that's one way of hedging our mediocre result  

- ask if it is ok for you to follow the bride the whole day. be with her when doing the hair, the nails, putting on the dress etc. it will add up to her memory of the whole experience!

- make a plan of when and where todo the shots of the couple. before or after the cermony? when will there be most time so both you and them can be relaxed? and since it is your brother. take "wedding" shots of them a few weeks before the wedding and all 3 of you will be more prepared for the day!

- bring umbrellas. even if it is raining you can make great shots outdoors and use the umbrellas to enhance the shot (ie not only for rain cover... .

Believe in yourself and everyone else will as well! You're the photographer!

Best of luck!


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## willrobb (Dec 15, 2011)

Lots of great advice, nice to see everyone sharing so much


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## unfocused (Dec 15, 2011)

Lots of good advice here. A few more cent's worth of thoughts.

I've successfully avoided shooting weddings since my film days, so these are either old, long-buried memories, or observations from weddings I've been to.

Definitely rent or secure a 580 EXII, you'll need the output and battery power. If possible, also rent the battery pack, so you have plenty of power throughout. Get a diffuser and practice with it beforehand, so you know where to set the flash exposure compensation. 

At every wedding I've been to, regardless of if the couple is spending thousands on the wedding or just a few hundred, the photographer works the reception with a camera, strobe and diffuser capturing candids, also needed for the cake cutting, first dance, etc. etc.

If some portion of the ceremony or reception has enough light to be shot without strobe, great, but don't count on it. Even a crappy direct flash picture is going to be better than no picture at all. (And, even those crappy shots can often be salvaged with some plug-in and effects -- they won't look great, but they can be made to look okay. Not so with a blurry and out of focus shot)

Do some research and draw up a shot list. Some of these can be done either before or after the actual ceremony (hands with rings, hands lighting candles, and other detail shots) Take the bride to a window (assuming it's a daytime ceremony) and have her stand there with the light hitting one side of her face. Have someone hold a piece of foamcore on the other side to reflect some light back onto the other side of her face. Obviously these are natural light shots. 

Stake out the location beforehand and take your camera to test exposures, bounce flash, etc. 

Play to your strengths. You can take four times as long as a professional photographer prepping for the shoot because you aren't billing for it. You know the couple, so you know what they like, how they interact, etc. etc. Use that insider knowledge. 

Finally, get your head wrapped around the idea that you want to "cover" the event like a photojournalist and not "direct" it like a commercial or fashion photographer. It's "f8 and be there."


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## 92101media (Dec 15, 2011)

Great advice so far. In addition, I have the following suggestions:

If you're comfortable shooting in manual, I suggest doing so. Also, I suggest manually setting the white balance for the conditions, rather than using auto white balance. That way if the white balance doesn't come out quite right, you can batch process all the photos at once, instead of trying to correct the white balance for each one individually. Same reason for shooting full manual. If you shoot in AV or auto white balance, the camera tries to guess the correct shutter speed or white balance for each shot individually, and while most of the time it does a pretty good job of doing so, if it doesn't it can be time consuming to correct each photo individually. To get the best results out of this, you'll need to shoot in max resolution RAW. 

Since memory cards are relatively cheap nowadays, I suggest shooting in max resolution RAW + small JPG (or even medium or large JPG if you have a large memory card, depending on how many shots you plan to take). That way, you have the JPGs for immediately sharing with your brother & his new wife e.g. for emailing to friends & relatives who couldn't attend, posting to facebook etc., and you'll also have the max resolution RAW for getting the best possible results after post processing. If you have a smaller memory card and/or will have the time to convert all the photos from RAW to JPG very soon after the event, you can get away with shooting max RAW only, but sometimes having e.g. small JPGs for emailing / posting to facebook etc. already available can be handy.

*** Make a plan to have a friend or relative, who is hopefully somewhat familiar with cameras take some photos of you & your wife. Worst case, set the camera to full auto, recruit whoever is nearby, and then check the results to make sure they are worthwhile. If the camera is struggling in the conditions, you can frame the shot & set the parameters, and then have the bystander just frame the same shot & press the shutter button. While you are being very selfless & gracious in agreeing to shoot your brother's wedding, you still want to be in at least some of the shots & the standard set pieces yourself e.g. family of the groom etc. ***


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## pwp (Dec 15, 2011)

libertyranger said:


> I recently shot my brother's engagement photos with my new camera and a 50 1.8 lens I borrowed from a friend. They came out pretty good (Well at least he thought they did) and asked if I would shoot his wedding. While I have no experience shooting weddings (and clearly told him so, I said I would.
> Also, any other suggestions for a budding wedding photographer. Thanks in advance.
> Mike



Mike, My advice in the strongest terms is to decline. The potential for life long lingering resentment, whether subtle or overt is high. 

You may well be a terrific photographer but as you have close to zero experience shooting weddings or events, there are traps by the million that you possibly don't even know exist yet.

Give your family relationships the best possible chance and reconsider. If you are doing a good job as a wedding photographer you'll be 100% locked in to that job and you'll miss out on being a great brother at the wedding. 

By all means take your camera, but make it VERY clear that you are not there as primary photographer...you are there as the brother of the groom and want to enjoy the event and a social time with family and guests. Trust me.

If you do go ahead and do the wedding, be VERY VERY clear and honest with your brother and his wife about the reality of your skill level and the high likelihood of missed or botched shots. If you are doing your job properly you'll barely have time to have a conversation with anyone...your attention will need to be on the job. There is no half measure. 

If you want to give your brother and his wife a great wedding gift, offer to pay for a professional.

Paul Wright


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## 92101media (Dec 15, 2011)

pwp said:


> Mike, My advice in the strongest terms is to decline. The potential for life long lingering resentment, whether subtle or overt is high.
> 
> You may well be a terrific photographer but as you have close to zero experience shooting weddings or events, there are traps by the million that you possibly don't even know exist yet.
> 
> ...



The above advice is worth considering strongly. While the temptation is there to use friends and/or family, especially when finances are tight, there is no do over of the day as a whole. You might even consider suggesting to your brother that a number of people chip into a pool together to pay for a professional, in lieu of a wedding present, if necessary. Again, you know your family best, so only you & they can determine what is acceptable.

If you do end up shooting the wedding, as has been mentioned, it is important for you to be very clear in setting expectations. It is far better to under promise & over deliver, than the other way round.


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## underjammer (Dec 15, 2011)

Well, I don't really have any general wedding suggestions, and surely nothing that compares to the others' postings, buttt, here's a fun (albeit renty/equipment-needy) idea..

DISCLAIMER: the practicality of this is highly-dependant on your (your brother's and his wife-to-be's) family and friends, I imagine. : D But if you're shooting their wedding, it sounds like they are more of the casual type, and may enjoy it.

I was at a wedding, once, where the photographers had set up a bit of a mini photo studio/booth where guests could go over and take their own small-group photos during the reception. I believe for part of it, this was actually a manned station (there were at least 3 photographers at the wedding) for the important family photos, where they'd take care of organizing/posing them and taking the shot. However, for the rest of the reception, we could just go over with friends and snap our own pictures. It was actually a whoooole lot of fun (for a few minutes, at least... and that adds up among different groups of guests!).

Though they wouldn't exactly be WEDDING shots, you would have some nice, consistent (very controlled lighting - minimal processing) family/friend portraits that could range from lovely-shots-with-the-grandparents-and-grand-children (for non-wedding use, etc..) to friends-drinking-one-too-many-and-rolling-around-laughing-and-taking-pictures-of-themselves.

It's pretty much a possibly useful or possibly pointless set up, depending on the wedding style.. : D Again it depends on what your brother and his wife-to-be want for memories and/or to share with family and friends.. like "Hey! Here's that picture you guys took of yourselves! It came out great! Enjoy it!" OR "HAH, we're keeping this one for blackmail down the road.."

Anyway, you pretty much would have zero processing on those pictures (maybe a batch lens-correction / barrel distortion), since you'd set up proper exposure before hand, so however many pictures were taken, all you'd really need to do was sort through for the good ones.. (I imagine if you gave them all straight-up to your brother and his wife, then they might get overwhelmed if they have a thousand family/friend portraits to go through, eventually making them quite sick of the things!) But I digress..

Here is what you'd need for the set up (unfortunately it's a bunch of stuff..):

1) a low traffic area at the reception (a corner..) - probably don't want it TOO far out of the way, because you want people to be near it, but you also don't want them to drunkenly (or dancingly) crash into it by accident, either.. Near a (neutral colored) wall will also give you some extra fill-light from the flash bouncing off the wall (see below.. essentially flash from a bounce umbrella will be coming at them from a bit of an angle opposite a wall... that light bouncing off the wall should lighten the shadow side and help even out the lighting).

2) dedicated camera - this could be your backup DSLR (a 3rd one besides your t3i and your wife's 60D), OR it could be a smaller camera like a Canon G12, etc, that has a hot-shoe.. you really shouldn't need anything amazing for the camera.. ** unfortunately you'd need to ponder number 5 below (shutter release cable) **

3) a wide-angle lens - nothing fancy.. the 18-55 kit lens should do just fine at 18mm (you'll want to do a batch barrel-distortion correction in post-processing, though). I think the G12, at its widest, has about the same focal length. The focal length is some what of a compromise.. a longer focal length will give you less distorted family members, but you're going to have a significantly larger "photo booth". (PS someone chime about where to put the thinner/thicker people..? thinner people at the edges in this sort of mid-close range shot...?) However, if it's more of a fun/casual thing, I guess a little distortion isn't the end of the world.

4) a tripod for the camera - perhaps attach a weight to the tripod, to keep it from getting moved too much and/or knocked over.

5) shutter release cable / remote switch would be recommended - this way, you'll keep people away from touching the camera.. unfortunately, I don't know what non-DSLRs accept these..

6) flash - I imagine any flash will do, since this will be used in a very close setting, as long as it works with a hot shoe cord and/or isn't really old with high-voltage that can fry your hot-shoe. It *will* need an adjustable head.

7) flash umbrella - increasing the size of your flash..

8) tripod / flash stand for the umbrella - you'll want that light a bit off camera, to the side, perhaps..

9) hot-shoe flash cord - this isn't really required.. You can mount the flash right to the top of the camera, and point the flash toward the umbrella that's to the side of the camera.

10) a chair or two, and some sort of simple back drop (a plain wall, if in the corner..?)

11) flash card(s) / extra batteries!

I know it's a lot of stuff, but depending what kind of spare camera/flash you have and if you already happen to have a tripod and a flash umbrella, it could be a fun (and easy) thing to set up.. : D

Maybe you'd have to worry about people knocking it over, or manning it at some point.. Technicalities, technicalities.. : D Perhaps find your most-trusted child or niece/nephew and give them 20$ to be a photo-shooting rock star for 30 minutes, etc.. maybe 2 of them, so they keep themselves entertained. You probably know the limitations of your family. : D

Anyway, sorry for the longness factor.. Again....

DISCLAIMER: It was fun to use as a guest, though I seriously have no idea how useful the pictures were to the bride and groom. They thought they were fun, but they were definitely NOT "wedding" pictures.. more of an added-bonus.. So definitely don't spend too much time on it.. I think the whole point is being able to set it up (if you have the gear), and then let it take care of itself.. Then come back later, and you have a whole set of pictures! : D

Also, I know I didn't really explain the exact set up, so if you don't get it, I can easily draw a picture and post how you would set it up. : D


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## 92101media (Dec 16, 2011)

underjammer said:


> I was at a wedding, once, where the photographers had set up a bit of a mini photo studio/booth where guests could go over and take their own small-group photos during the reception. I believe for part of it, this was actually a manned station (there were at least 3 photographers at the wedding) for the important family photos, where they'd take care of organizing/posing them and taking the shot. However, for the rest of the reception, we could just go over with friends and snap our own pictures. It was actually a whoooole lot of fun (for a few minutes, at least... and that adds up among different groups of guests!).
> 
> Though they wouldn't exactly be WEDDING shots, you would have some nice, consistent (very controlled lighting - minimal processing) family/friend portraits that could range from lovely-shots-with-the-grandparents-and-grand-children (for non-wedding use, etc..) to friends-drinking-one-too-many-and-rolling-around-laughing-and-taking-pictures-of-themselves.
> 
> It's pretty much a possibly useful or possibly pointless set up, depending on the wedding style.. : D Again it depends on what your brother and his wife-to-be want for memories and/or to share with family and friends.. like "Hey! Here's that picture you guys took of yourselves! It came out great! Enjoy it!" OR "HAH, we're keeping this one for blackmail down the road.."



Another thing I've seen done in the past, is that the bride & groom have put a cheap disposable camera with flash on each table at the reception, for those sitting at the table to capture some of the more fun & frivolous casual shots of each other themselves. However, that would entail extra cost for processing all of the rolls of film, for questionable results, depending on the conditions & skill of those using them etc. Cheap P&Ss are so prevalent that these days lots of people have them, so perhaps an email to all guests beforehand encouraging them all to bring their own cameras would work just as well or better (though, in fact, this may be unnecessary, since I imagine most people will bring their own cameras, if they remember, anyway). Having a neutral colored wall, or a light colored sheet hung up in a well/better lit area, may work well as an open area where anyone can come & take pics of each other. Sometimes, having a bucket of fun props e.g. crazy hats, oversized luminous-colored glasses etc. that people can use can lead to some fun shots (not as staid or self conscious). One note though: the communal pic taking area has to be close to where everyone else is though; they are *much* less likely to make use of it, if it is at all removed from the action. One of the downsides of the 'people taking casual pics of each other' approach is that you then usually have to chase people to send their pictures to you and/or the bride & groom afterwards. If you setup a communal online account/gallery, where everyone can easily upload their pics afterwards (and maybe even print slips of paper with an already set up upload address on, to hand out or leave on the tables), you may get a much better return rate.

Obviously, the above is just to capture some of the more fun casual shots to supplement the main pics, not in any way a replacement for the main pics.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 16, 2011)

Lots of good tips so far

1 tip i havent seen yet is wear a black shirt not a white or coloured one
the reason is 2 fold. 

1. wearing black will help you to reflect less in their eyes for tight shots

2. when they look at you the black helps ease the eyes and the pupils will dilate a bit more
especially in brighter light.


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## libertyranger (Dec 16, 2011)

Wow, thank everyone so much for replying. I didn't realize I needed so much information aside from lens recommendations.

I've made a list of all these suggestions and now it's time to study and practice. The wedding is 4 months away so I have some time. 

Again, thank you everyone for your information and experiences.


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## niccyboy (Dec 16, 2011)

Good luck with the wedding! 

My advice:
- research and look at other peoples wedding shots, crops, composition, lighting etc
- you need a wider lens, your widest lens is 28mm which is around 45 on a ff... You will need to stand A long way back to get a group shot with that. Someone suggested the 10-22 efs... That is great, the sigma 10-20 and tokina 11-16 would also work.
- definitely get lots of batteries and cards and shoot raw, this will help with post and you can then overshoot
- practice with speed lites before the wedding, don't think they are like a lens that you just pop on... And definitely don't use the on camera flash for this stuff

Have fun! Learn by doing


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## MazV-L (Dec 16, 2011)

Don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but an external Battery pack for your speedlight will help the flash recycle much faster so you don't miss shots due to the flash failing to fire. Make sure batteries are fully charged and you have spares. 

Having a BlackRapid strap cross-shoulder &/or belt holster is alot easier than having to dive into your backpack, and carrying 2 camera bodies, each w/ a different lens much faster than changing lenses.

*ANTICIPATE THE MOMENT sometimes 'THE KISS' can be faster than Prince Williams and Kate's so you may only have time for one shot BE READY!!!!*


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## Rampado (Dec 17, 2011)

Good luck with that! I would never accepted this kind of work


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## XSHINERX (Dec 19, 2011)

libertyranger said:


> Hello CR,
> 
> I've been following CR for a couple months now since I bought my T3i and have delved into the world of photography. I've done some wildlife photography recently and some portraits and have discovered I really enjoy portraits and events.
> 
> ...




Ill be honest, its a huge undertaking.
shoot the heck out of it, and have lots of cards. cant go wrong with the 20-70. shoot raw, make sure everything is in focus, fix exposure and framing in lightroom. If family is hip and young, rent fish eye for some "backstage" shots. With the fisheye, at least you can say exposure or other issues were artistic choice! ha!


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## wickidwombat (Dec 19, 2011)

I just shot a wedding on the weekend and tried out the yongnuo external battery packs on the 2 580ex2's and they were amazing, shooting for about 10 hours and i never ran out of batteries on either flash. definately worth looking into getting one for each flash so you dont have the stress of battery changes, they also boost the recycle time a fair bit too.


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## Old Shooter (Dec 19, 2011)

Wow! I can't believe you got three pages of such great advice! After I read through it all, I thought I would give you a few suggestions about "timing" your shoot that day...

If possible, attend the rehearsal. You can pick your locations and angles for the wedding day. You can also check with the minister to see what his rules are regarding photographer's and flashes...

On the wedding day, I would get to the church three hours early. Let's say it was a 12:00 ceremony; I would get there at 9:00 AM. The first hour was my time to set up equipment and scout shooting locations. Walk around the grounds and evaluate backgrounds and lighting. See what spots will be best for solos, couples, and groups...

The next hour was for the bride and her party. Bride, bridesmaids, Mom & Dad, family shots if she wanted them. You will finish her one hour before the ceremony so she can hide before anyone gets there...

Last hour is for the groom and his party. Everyone has seen a guy in a tux so it is no big deal to shoot him as the guests start arriving. Groom, groomsmen, Mom & Dad, family shots if he wants them. You can shoot these practically up to the start of the ceremony...

If you follow this schedule, then all you have to do is shoot the ceremony and the bride & groom couple shots afterward. Then off to the reception; which is like photographing a party but with a few special twists... Their entrance, first dance, cutting the cake, throwing the bouquet/garter, their departure... Then you're done!


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## Cregg Annarino (Dec 21, 2011)

libertyranger said:


> Hello CR,
> 
> I've been following CR for a couple months now since I bought my T3i and have delved into the world of photography. I've done some wildlife photography recently and some portraits and have discovered I really enjoy portraits and events.
> 
> ...



Hey Mike,

So what month and where is the wedding going to be? Is it a day or night wedding? Exactly what gear do you currently have or will borrow for the wedding day?

Weddings can be tough for sure but you have some time to plan and prepare and get any gear you may need so that's a good thing. I do 30 weddings or so a year, full time and have been doing it for just about 10 years. They most definitely aren't easy and you have to be prepared to do more than just click photos. You will be directing people as well during stuff like the formals and group shots. That is a big part of the day some people don't realize they even have to do.

You will need to make decisions when it comes to formals and the group shots. You can't be indecisive, wedding parties hate that. You can't ask the clients where they want the pics, stuff like that....and since it's your bro and his friends and your family, everyone will be nice to you and these things won't be a big factor like they would be at a clients wedding...lmao....drunk and jerky people can certainly be a huge pain on a wedding day at formals time...lol...Almost every wedding is a rush, things like makeup and hair always run late. 

You will either come out of this wedding thinking, dam I will never do that again...Or you may love it and want to continue.


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## Old Shooter (Dec 21, 2011)

Cregg Annarino said:


> You will be directing people as well during stuff like the formals and group shots. That is a big part of the day some people don't realize they even have to do.



So VERY true!



Cregg Annarino said:


> Almost every wedding is a rush, things like makeup and hair always run late.



LOL! Again, so VERY true!


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## briansquibb (Dec 21, 2011)

underjammer said:


> Also, I know I didn't really explain the exact set up, so if you don't get it, I can easily draw a picture and post how you would set it up. : D



2 speedlites with umbrellas about 90 degrees, reflecting in gold, pw on hotshoe etc - this works well. 

I try to get it reasonably close to the bar for some amusing shots later in the evening.


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## Old Shooter (Dec 22, 2011)

ericlondon said:


> the 24.70mm is an amazing lens, ive used it basically at all my weddings this year



+1 for the 24-70L! My old 28-70mmL almost never left my camera on wedding days... The 20-35mmL was great for interior shots of the church during the service and some edgy WA stuff during the reception. The 70-200mmL was what I shot from a tripod at the back; if the church was "photog unfriendly" and was on my second body for B&W portraiture (if requested by the bride & groom)...


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## libertyranger (Dec 22, 2011)

Cregg Annarino said:


> libertyranger said:
> 
> 
> > Hello CR,
> ...



Thanks for the advice! 

The wedding is in March and it will be an indoor wedding (both ceremony and reception). My current equipment:

T3i w/ Kit Lens 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 (What I own)
60D w/ 24-70 f2.8 (What I will borrow)

Per the advice of several people here and much research I have down on my own, I plan on getting a Speedlite by the time the wedding comes. I know I will need some practice with it before the actual wedding so in February I will probably get one for my B-Day. I'm thinking either the 430EX II or the 580EX II. There's a decent jump in price between the two so I'll have to think about which one. However, I would not want to et the 430 and then regret not paying a little extra for a better flash. Any thoughts?


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## wickidwombat (Dec 22, 2011)

the 580s are great but expensive, you will be using 2 cameras so I would say you are much better off getting 2 430s one on each. just use direct flash in ettl and you lose less power, dont stick domes and stuff on it. 

with that combo you should be good, leave your t3i with 18-55 on F8 use it for groups where there are more than 2. reason is with it stopped down to f8 your image quality will be optimal for that lens body and you dont have to worry about stuffing up the DOF. (I have done this so many times with groups) been in a rush and left the aperture wide or bumped it :-[

have your 60D with 24-70 set at f2.8 and use that for you cropped in shots couple shots and single person shots and get that nice background blur.

Also with the flashes 2 basic rules to get you out of trouble look at the back ground if its brighter than the subject dial in some +EV on the flash using the dial on the back if the background is darker than the subject dial in some -EV on the flash, do some practice with this to get a feel for it before hand. 

also if there is a white ceiling or even a wall near where you are shooting bounce the flash off that.

be prepared for so much stuff happening all at once. also with the flashes as i mentioned get the yongnuo battery packs they are around $40 on ebay and will take away the worry of running out of flash battery you need 12 batteries per flash, 4 in the flash and 8 in the battery pack, take some spares but you probably wont need to change batterys if using the battey packs


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## Flake (Dec 23, 2011)

I'd advise you get an SB E2 flash bracket for weddings, especially if you have an extending lens (they're cheap on Ebay and there's not much to go wrong). Trying to shoot in portrait mode with a flash on the left (normally) side of the camera casts shadows especially if there's a lens in the way, you're likely to take more portraits at times in the wedding than landscape, it will make a difference.

In the days of film & medium format many viewfinders were look down type, and the camera was at waist level, this is more flattering than standing bolt upright and looking down on people, which does not produce such a nice image - shoot from waist height where practical.

Most wedding photographers offer different packages, I would suggest that as a first outing you only shoot the basic one - no bride getting ready, or candids at the reception. Just shoot the ceremony, guys at the venue, bride & dad arriving, entrance etc etc. Then the reception group shots etc and a staged cutting of the cake with just the bride & groom in the shot.

After than you're done, enjoy the meal & the reception and relax! If you feel like it shoot a few of the speeches, but you'll probably be wiped out at this staged - stressed & irritable!

When you offer the proofs to the happy couple don't be too dissapointed when they choose all the worst images, they seem to have an ability to home in on the most boring formulaic images, and that special shot you spent ages creating and you think deserves an award barely gets a first glance never mind a second!


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## handsomerob (Dec 23, 2011)

Flake said:


> When you offer the proofs to the happy couple don't be too dissapointed when they choose all the worst images, they seem to have an ability to home in on the most boring formulaic images, and that special shot you spent ages creating and you think deserves an award barely gets a first glance never mind a second!



+1 hehe, very sad but very true!

It seems to happen every single time, magically


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## UncleFester (Dec 25, 2011)

Orangutan said:


> Unless this is a very casual, back-yard type affair with less than 20 people, you should politely say you've reconsidered, and don't think it would work. For a full-size, formal wedding, I agree with the previous post: you can either be the photographer, or be involved; not both.
> 
> I've only shot a few weddings, but I can tell you it requires a lot of thinking ahead to get yourself in the right position at the right time for the right shot.
> 
> If you want to get a taste of weddings, I suggest you find a local wedding photographer and offer to be a volunteer second-shooter.


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## briansquibb (Dec 27, 2011)

JerPhotos said:


> i dont know if any1 could help me but is a 60d or 7d good enough to shoot weddings? or would i need to look at maybe the 5d?



Definitely a 7D is good enough to get started - providing you have the right lens.


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## thepancakeman (Dec 27, 2011)

JerPhotos said:


> i dont know if any1 could help me but is a 60d or 7d good enough to shoot weddings? or would i need to look at maybe the 5d?



It depends on the expectations, but I know of "successful" wedding shoots (because I was involved as backup photographer) that were done with a 40D.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 27, 2011)

JerPhotos said:


> i dont know if any1 could help me but is a 60d or 7d good enough to shoot weddings? or would i need to look at maybe the 5d?



I use a 5DII and a 1D3 however the 1D is heavy I am thinking about getting a 7D and 17-55 f2.8 to use instead as its much lighter then the 5DII i would use the 70-200 f2.8 or the 85mm 1.4
I think the 7D is a very capable camera especially with good glass.


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## MazV-L (Dec 28, 2011)

JerPhotos said:


> i dont know if any1 could help me but is a 60d or 7d good enough to shoot weddings? or would i need to look at maybe the 5d?


I've used all 3 of my Dslrs (see list below) at weddings and 2 of those are only apsc. I think LENS CHOICE is more important than your choice of camera body.


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## thepancakeman (Dec 28, 2011)

MazV-L said:


> I think LENS CHOICE is more important than your choice of camera body.



+1. Good lens + mediocre body = decent photos. Crappy lens + awesome body = crappy pictures.


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## daveheinzel (Dec 28, 2011)

I have been in your shoes - I shot my brother's wedding several years ago. I had done a few before, and I've done about a dozen since. But man - you really have your work cut out for you.

Here are some practical tips based on your specific situation:

1) Like it has been suggested, strongly consider hiring a professional photographer as a gift to your brother and his wife (and to yourself). I get the sense you're not going to take this advice and will shoot it anyway, which I understand. But yeah, you will not experience the wedding from behind the camera. My memories of my brother's wedding are fuzzy and hectic. It's a shame really.

2) Eat before you arrive and bring snacks. You might get to sit down and have a meal, but do not count on it. You might have all the best equipment in the world, but if you're famished, your work will greatly suffer. Eat and drink (water) at every chance you get, because you won't get many. And honestly, you should use any breaks you have to review your images to make sure you're actually capturing what you think you are. If your lens got switched to manual focus and you didn't realize it, that is one of the most frustrating experiences you can imagine.

3) If you are struggling with low light (which you will, or worse - you won't realize that you are), put the camera on auto, put the flash on your camera and point it straight at your subject and simply focus on putting yourself in the best position possible. Your photos will definitely not look "awesome," but they will be properly exposed and in focus. And because you aren't fiddling with your gear, you can get in places and take photos that none of the guests will, which will set your photos apart from the ones that they'll post on Facebook immediately after (and during) the wedding.

4) Don't plan on switching lenses on camera bodies at any point during the day. Have 2 cameras and 2 lenses (extras in your bag for backup are fine). You'll miss photos when switching lenses, and you'll be rushed, likely dropping things. With your gear, I'd put the 24-70 on the T3i and the 50mm on the 60D. This leaves you without a telephoto lens, so if you can get a 70-200, use that instead of the 50. But don't sweat it if you can't get a 70-200. I love mine and use it a lot, but for weddings, I usually go more wide.

5) Put the priority on capturing the moment vs. making it look pretty. When it comes down to it, just get the photo. And then get lots more.


This is not advice I'd give to anyone who wants to deliver the most professional, aesthetically-pleasing wedding photos, but it is practical advice aimed at simply not screwing up majorly. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!


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