# Canon EF 100 f/2.8L IS Macro autofocus?



## Gino (Dec 26, 2013)

Good Afternoon,

Santa gave me the Canon EF 100 f/2.8L IS Macro for Christmas, and this is my first experience with a macro lens. I took about 100 photos indoors yesterday, and about every 10th photo the autofocus hunts for 5-10 seconds before it acquires focus. The indoor lighting is adequate, but I would not say the lighting is bright. I've been taking a mixture of portrait and macro type photos. 

Most of the photos I've taken appear to be in focus, but I'm still learning the lens. Is it normal for this lens to hunt at times to lock focus, or do I potentially have a bad copy? 

Here are my settings with my 5D MKIII

* lens is on FULL mode
* camera is set to Case 1 with AI SERVO
* selectable AF point is 61 points 
* manual select: spot AF
* The camera is on manual mode with auto ISO, and I've been taking photos with apertures between f/2.8 and f/8 with shutter speeds between 1/60 - 1/200.

Also, I'd appreciate any advice on recommended aperture and shutter speed settings with this lens for both portrait and marco photos.

Thanks!


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## Eldar (Dec 26, 2013)

When you shoot macro you should limit the focus area. If it starts hunting, it has a long way to go and that takes time. IS becomes a bit less effective when you get really close, so you should use a slightly faster shutter speed than you would normally use. Personally I prefer to shoot MF for macro. I also use live view quite a bit.

As a portrait lens you can use it like any other lens. But it might be that you prefer to use the other focus limitation alternative, also to avoid hunting.


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## eli452 (Dec 26, 2013)

Eldar said:


> When you shoot macro you should limit the focus area. If it starts hunting, it has a long way to go and that takes time....



Time and a lot of battery power.


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## lilmsmaggie (Dec 26, 2013)

When shooting macro, did you have IS turned on or off?

Had similar issue with this lens mounted on 5D MKII, camera/lens on a tripod with the IS engaged but not in AI SERVO. The auto focus would hunt. As a result, I had a lot of fuzzy images of completely still subjects.

Someone here suggested that I should have disengaged IS. 

Isn't Case I a default tracking mode? I realize that there are many who use AI Servo all the time, even for still subjects.

But AI SERVO mode is in essence anticipating that the subject could move. Wouldn't this setting pick up vibrations that could be interpreted as movement?

Don't quite understand the rationale for shooting still subjects in AI SERVO mode.


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## Random Orbits (Dec 26, 2013)

One Shot AF should be used for most applications. The lenses focuses to 1:1 at the MFD, but if you're closer than the MFD, the lens cannot focus. It will take a while for it to give up though. To test this, step back a foot and try again. If it locks, get closer and try again. At some point, you'll be closer than the MFD and it won't be able to lock.

For macro subjects, use the aperture to control the DOF. If it shutter speed drops too much, then adding light (i.e. flash) would be the way to go.


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## slclick (Dec 26, 2013)

Macro, best technique is on a tripod and a focusing rail, manual focus and using Live View and 5-10x.


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## pdirestajr (Dec 26, 2013)

Also that giant focus ring is really helpful even in auto focus. Since the lens has "full time" manual focus, if the lens starts hunting, use the focus ring to "rough in" the focus, then the AF will help fine-tune.


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## slclick (Dec 26, 2013)

I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.


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## alexturton (Dec 26, 2013)

slclick said:


> I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.



+1. 

I'm a fan of the: set focus and rock back and forth technique.


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## Don Haines (Dec 26, 2013)

alexturton said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.
> ...



+1


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## Random Orbits (Dec 26, 2013)

slclick said:


> I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.



I use AF for handheld stuff and with lower magnifications. For higher magnifications and for greater DOF, the tripod, rails and flashes come out and AF stays off.


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## Otara (Dec 26, 2013)

Underwater macro often uses AF too, for fairly obvious reasons. Supermacro, tripods etc and/or rock back and forth start getting used more.

Otara


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## 100 (Dec 27, 2013)

It depends on your shooting style and subjects. With a tripod and stationary subjects, live view with 5x or 10x magnification and manual focus gets me the best results. 
When shooting stationary subjects handheld at macro distances I usually focus manually by moving the camera forwards or backwards. 
When shooting moving subjects like flying insects at macro distances autofocus will give me the best results because AF can focus and keep focus (AI servo) a lot faster than I can do manually. 

To get enough DOF at macro distances for a single shot I use apertures between f/8 and f/16 (depending on available light and the shutter speed I need) or focus stack with a macro rail (your subject needs to be stationary for a long time) and use values between f/5.6 and f/8 (the sweet spot for resolution and sharpness) for the individual shots. 

The hybrid IS on the EF 100 f/2.8L will “only” get you something between 1 and 1.5 stops stabilization at macro distances, so if you shoot handheld the lowest you can go is about 1/30 sec (if your subject doesn’t move that is). At normal distances the IS will give you 3 to 4 stops.


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## pdirestajr (Dec 27, 2013)

slclick said:


> I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.



Um, can't the lens be used in many different modes for many different things? If I'm shooting at macro distances or products, I'm on a tripod and manual. If I'm using the lens for other things, I may use that handy modern AF feature that's included for free in my lens. Not sure why you are trying to call people out because they may use their tools differently than you.


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## sdsr (Dec 27, 2013)

When you say it hunts for several seconds every tenth shot or so, has anything changed between shot #9 and shot #10? Does this happen more when you're putting it to macro or non-macro use? I've never used a macro lens for non-macro work which didn't hunt when switching between subjects at significantly different distances from the camera, and this gets worse as the light gets lower (that doesn't stop me from using my 100L that way, though, because it's a fantastic lens in every other way; using the focus limiter and grabbing the focus ring largely solves the problem). I would also note, as others have, that manual focusing tends to work better for macro work. Wonderful though good AF is, and I don't think any dslr systems can beat Canon in this area, it's probably overrated and has its limits; and one such is when you need to make fine, precise focusing choices such as are typically involved in macro work (too bad dslrs are lousy tools for manual focusing unless you use live view).

Remember also that if you're using the lens wide open, when you get really close, as the lens lets you do for macro work, depth of focus is exceptionally thin and the slightest imprecision in focusing, including the slightest movement of the camera, will result in an image in which either the wrong thing or, more likely, nothing at all is in focus. What aperture were you using for your macro shots? (This may not have much to do with the hunting, if any, you experienced doing macro shots.)


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 27, 2013)

Gino said:


> Good Afternoon,
> 
> Santa gave me the Canon EF 100 f/2.8L IS Macro for Christmas, and this is my first experience with a macro lens. I took about 100 photos indoors yesterday, and about every 10th photo the autofocus hunts for 5-10 seconds before it acquires focus. The indoor lighting is adequate, but I would not say the lighting is bright. I've been taking a mixture of portrait and macro type photos.
> 
> ...



macro shooting does reduce the light the AF sensor gets
changing the AF limiter can help it from getting lost in a zone far away from what is needed


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 27, 2013)

slclick said:


> I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.



With the USM macro lenses from Canon macro AF works quite well, especially on 5D3/1DX or 7D (the latter goes in a specific ultra-speed macro AF mode automatically). I know the old macro crowd treats AF like the plague, but honestly, there are times that it simply works better than trying manual and other times where it works equally as well and is more convenient. Of course in some scenarios manual will be better. But don't just toss out AF+macro.
I even successfully use it (AF) on a regular basis even with a full set of extension tubes on, you often nail it even right on a bug's eye.

As for IS, it can nab you some shots you'd have needed flash for otherwise (although it is best done with high speed continuous shooting and then you might get 1 out of 5 utterly crisp; without IS maybe you get 1 out of 200 which is not so good). And for more backed out pseudo macro shooting the IS really helps. And even when using flash it helps since it helps you center a stabilized frame on the subject as desired.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 27, 2013)

slclick said:


> Macro, best technique is on a tripod and a focusing rail, manual focus and using Live View and 5-10x.



unless the bugs are hopping in which case by the time that is set up they are long gone


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 27, 2013)

Lots of good advice already. The 100L isn't the fastest focusing lens out there, using the focus limiter really helps. It does hunt sometimes. Here's a comment I made 2.5 years ago:



neuroanatomist said:


> Also, I've found that my 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS seems to hunt for focus a bit more in low light than other f/2.8 lenses.



Also worth noting is that while it's an f/2.8 lens, it's actually in AF Group C, which is typical f/4 lenses and f/2.8 + 1.4x TC lenses. You get 41 cross type points, but none of the high-precision f/2.8 crosses. 

Spot AF does restrict the area used for AF, so make sure there's a contrasty feature in the box. 

Servo AF is fine - I haven't seen it mentioned in 5DIII/1D X technical documents, but the 7D (and 1DIV?) had a dedicated macro mode in Servo that compensated for the drift back and forth of the photographer, and I suspect the new bodies have it, too. It's activated automatically if you're using a Canon macro lens with a close subject in servo mode (there is no indicator that it's active, though). 

As for recommended aperture/shutter speed for portraits/macro - macro needs as narrow an aperture as you can get for more DoF. Light becomes limiting fast, and the IS benefit is reduced to at best 2 stops at 1:1. For portraits, that's preference and depends on subject distance. I'd use f/2.8-4 usually, but for something like a headshot, you'd need f/8-11 to get the ears/hair in focus along with the eyes.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 27, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lots of good advice already. The 100L isn't the fastest focusing lens out there, using the focus limiter really helps. It does hunt sometimes. Here's a comment I made 2.5 years ago:
> 
> 
> neuroanatomist said:
> ...



neuroanatomist is probably one of the few members being able to quote himself :-> ...

... but what he wrote is also my experience, the hunting seems a bit worse on my 6d vs. my 60d, but it's there on both. The best advice is to focus on some contrast part, that helps the af to lock on ... and if shooting tripod live view with Magic Lantern (focus peaking (and stacking)) is the best option anyway.



100 said:


> The hybrid IS on the EF 100 f/2.8L will “only” get you something between 1 and 1.5 stops stabilization at macro distances, so if you shoot handheld the lowest you can go is about 1/30 sec (if your subject doesn’t move that is). At normal distances the IS will give you 3 to 4 stops.



This has been discussed a lot, and my experience is that at 1:1 macro the effect of IS is about ... zero. It gets better the more you distance the camera from the subject, but the IS is really best starting with your typical "full flower" shot type.


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## Rams_eos (Dec 27, 2013)

First, with this macro, it is unlikely you shoot fast moving objects. So first thing is to limit the AF range with the button on the side of the lens.

I took pictures of Orchids yesterday and I am very pleased with results but: I mounted the camera on tripod, connected it to the computer, used canon software to control it, adjusted focus manually directly on the computer screen, same for DOF (I use a DOF calculator on android to get an idea before start) and exposition.
I use one shot AF on a 600D. You need to have an idea of the DOF you need before starting.
In my case here, F8 to 10 (to get all flowers sharp), speed 1/50, iso 200.

Outdoor, you should really limit the range of AF otherwise it has to go all way long and it take some time.
One key point is very very thin DOF. It is very easy to get fuzzy images because a light front or back focus combined with a narrow DOF will lead to overall blurred pictures.
For non moving bugs without tripod, I tend to use 2s self-delay to be stable, use lower speed and get extra sharpness.

This lens is amazingly sharp as long as you use it properly i.e. adapt to its limitations.


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## Rams_eos (Dec 27, 2013)

Just to add that if you shoot flowers outside with wind even light, they will be moving and be out of focus unless you shoot from several meters and F16 or more. But then, is this still macro?


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## 100 (Dec 27, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> 100 said:
> 
> 
> > The hybrid IS on the EF 100 f/2.8L will “only” get you something between 1 and 1.5 stops stabilization at macro distances, so if you shoot handheld the lowest you can go is about 1/30 sec (if your subject doesn’t move that is). At normal distances the IS will give you 3 to 4 stops.
> ...



Did you compare it to the non IS lens? 
I never owned the old non IS 100mm Canon but I use to have both the old non-OS Sigma 105mm f/2.8 and the EF 100 f/2.8L IS. I couldn’t use the siggie handheld with natural light at macro distances at 1/30 second on full frame. 1/60 or faster was needed. With the canon 1/30 at macro distances is possible for me (not preferable though). 

You only get 1:1 at the minimum focus distance and because of the optical construction it isn’t really a 100 mm lens anymore, but if the effectiveness of the stabilization is close to zero you need close to 1/100 on FF (or 1/160 on APS-C) if you apply the rule of thumb (minimum shutter speed in seconds = 1/ real focal length in mm * crop factor).


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## 100 (Dec 27, 2013)

Rams_eos said:


> Just to add that if you shoot flowers outside with wind even light, they will be moving and be out of focus unless you shoot from several meters and F16 or more. But then, is this still macro?



That depends on the wind direction. If the wind blows form left to right or vice versa they stay in focus. 

There is more than one definition for macro photography. The most used define the reproduction ratio to at least 1:2 (half life size).


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## Marsu42 (Dec 27, 2013)

Rams_eos said:


> But then, is this still macro?



"Macro" is often used as a synonym for "rather small object", but the afaik proper definition is that the macro lens engages its specialized mechanism, raising the magnification while dropping the usable aperture - the latter effect makes handholding so damn difficult except at ridiculously high iso or thin dof.



100 said:


> This has been discussed a lot, and my experience is that at 1:1 macro the effect of IS is about ... zero. It gets better the more you distance the camera from the subject, but the IS is really best starting with your typical "full flower" shot type.


Did you compare it to the non IS lens? 
[/quote]

Yes, I did because I used to shoot a lot with the 100 non-L, and then "upgraded" because it lacks sealing which is bad for outdoor shots... that's why I feel confident to say that the closer the distance is, the less the effect of IS gets until virtually zero, though it makes a soothing IS sound :->

You can check for yourself by handholding the lens @1:1 with and w/o IS and then look at how much the frame shakes, at very closeup you simply need a fast shutter speed to prevent blur when shooting w/o tripod.


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## 100 (Dec 27, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> You can check for yourself by handholding the lens @1:1 with and w/o IS and then look at how much the frame shakes, at very closeup you simply need a fast shutter speed to prevent blur when shooting w/o tripod.



Well, I did and the IS gives me little over 1 stop at 1:1 like I wrote before. 
At 1:1 it’s only a 75mm lens (source: http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/458-canon_100_28is_5d ) so 1/75 second handheld on full frame complies with the rule of thumb. Not everyone shakes the same but for me this rule works pretty well with normal shooting conditions. 1/30 is the lowest workable speed for handheld shots at 1:1 in my case. 

If you read the reviews they all seem to reach similar conclusions (two examples below):

Digital Picture:
_ IS is not as effective at macro distances. Canon rates this IS system for 3 stops of assistance at .5x/2:1 and 2 stops of assistance at 1x/1:1. Testing IS completely handheld at 1x/1:1 is not easy - it is very hard to even keep the subject in focus when shooting completely freehand at this short distance. That said, at 1x with IS on, I get a good keeper rate at a shutter speed of 1/30 second and a few at 1/15. That is close to two stops for me._
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-100mm-f-2.8-L-IS-USM-Macro-Lens-Review.aspx

Depreview:
_Of course the big story with this lens is Canon's new Hybrid IS, and it's important to understand the system's strengths and weaknesses. We found it highly effective at longer subject distances - under ideal conditions it delivers on the four stops benefit promised by Canon - but despite the new dual-sensor design it still doesn't provide so much benefit at close distances. At 1:1 we found it delivered little more than a stop of stabilization - better than nothing for sure, but it's not going to help with the relatively long exposures often required when shooting macros at F11 or F16._
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/canon_100_2p8_is_usm_c16/6

For you the effectiveness of the IS at 1:1 might be close to zero, I have no reason to doubt your words, but you seem to be an exception.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 27, 2013)

100 said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > You can check for yourself by handholding the lens @1:1 with and w/o IS and then look at how much the frame shakes, at very closeup you simply need a fast shutter speed to prevent blur when shooting w/o tripod.
> ...



I get pretty close to two stops, on average, at 1:1. 

@Marsu42 - does ML have an algorithm to fix shaky hands yet?


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## Marsu42 (Dec 27, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> @Marsu42 - does ML have an algorithm to fix shaky hands yet?



You'd be surprised - it does, though you big 1d people wouldn't know about it 

It's called "handheld mlu" and works by adding a little delay after pressing shutter and in addition to that engaging mlu since there's time for it. The result is that you can stabilize the lens better since you don't have the minimal imbalance from the shutter press action anymore, it works great with longer landscape exposures on non-IS lenses like the 17-40L.



100 said:


> For you the effectiveness of the IS at 1:1 might be close to zero, I have no reason to doubt your words, but you seem to be an exception.



In that case I have to doubt my own words  and have to add that I didn't run the statistical tests to really prove my observation, that would require a lot of shots of the same subject with IS on and off to compensate for the always different hand shake.

But I have used the L vs. non L and IS vs no IS quite enough to say that if your 1:1 macro shot is too shaky with IS off, IS won't rescue me, even the 1 stop observed above is only "nice to have" but I can easily get better results by simply taking 2-3 other shots and chose the best. I admit I leave IS on, but for the one reason that I often move out a bit to re-frame and get in the region when it's actually useful.


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## kirispupis (Dec 27, 2013)

Sorry to be blunt, but for macro shots AF doesn't really matter because it should be turned off. For macro when you focus you are actually changing the magnification - which usually is not what you want. The most common technique for macro focus is to turn AF off and move the lens itself backwards and forwards. For this reason many macro lenses do not even have AF (such as the MP-E 65).

I have this lens and only use AF for portrait situations - which are rare (I am photographing some flower and the kids suddenly want a picture). I certainly would not call it stellar - but at least on my copy it does an OK job.

However for your best results I highly recommend you just turn AF off. If you are doing tripod based work with a macro rail, then live view is useful. Otherwise I have found it possible to focus accurately just using the viewfinder.


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## slclick (Dec 29, 2013)

pdirestajr said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.
> ...



Where did you read in my post about other things? I wasn't calling people out either. I wasn't being antagonistic, but I do think you are. I was talking about 1:1 macro


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 29, 2013)

slclick said:


> I'm curious to know just how much Macro folks that are recommending using AF are doing? It's a sizable part of my portfolio and AF isn't ever part of the equation.


I'm a person who likes to walk around and shoot whatever catches my interest, or grab the camera to get a quick shot. Using a tripod or macro rail is something I'm too impatient to do, and its pretty much impractical for quickly moving subjects in any event. 

While not perfect, the 100L allows me to use autofocus most of the time.
I use AI servo, of course, since I can not hold completely still, and moving forward or back just a tiny amount makes a big difference.


Examples of shots using autofocus.


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## danski0224 (Dec 29, 2013)

I also like macro photography.

I much prefer a monopod to a tripod, but that fits in with what I take pictures of most of the time. Tripod and/or rail is really for stationary subjects, or for those that wait for the bugs to come to them- as one example I saw one guy taking pictures of monarchs with what looked like a 600mm lens on a 1D series body on a tripod. I doubt that lens has a macro setting, but he probably filled the frame 

Little bits of wind can be a huge problem. AF can help. AI Servo can help. Multiple frames can help.

Little changes in AF make big magnification changes- just something to be aware of.

Yes, sometimes I turn off the AF, set the lens at 1:1 and move in/out until focus is achieved. Little bits of movement make a big difference.

Probably my most used tool is the monopod followed by the lens collar. Even having the end of the monopod way off to the side in contact with the ground stabilizes the camera enough for me when the same shot purely handheld would have been much more difficult or not possible.

I have also noticed "odd" focus behavior once in a while and I'm not sure what causes it- it isn't repeatable in my case. It could simply be that the AF system is operating near the limitations of the system. The Canon f2.8 macro doesn't use the f2.8 AF points and I'm not sure what AF points the Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro uses. 


Edits: monarchs = monarch butterflies, not royalty  

back button focus is a huge help for macro in general.


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## Gino (Dec 29, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I haven't had a chance to implement your suggestions, but here are a few photos I took prior to getting your feedback.

thanks


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## danski0224 (Dec 29, 2013)

Don't really see anything "wrong" with those images.


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## ejenner (Dec 31, 2013)

It's not the best AFing lens in poor light either. Dim, indoors, it can struggle a bit.

In decent light (even dreary heavily overcast outdoors) I have used it fine with bees and the like - as long as you don't try to go from 20ft to 1ft instantly.


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