# We think it’s almost a sure thing Canon will announce a pro EOS R body in 2020



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 25, 2019)

> Over the last month or so, there has been a lot of little hints sent our way about new Canon EOS R bodies. There won’t be a new EOS R body announced alongside the EOS 90D, EOS M5 Mark II and EOS M6 Mark II, but we should start hearing more soon after.
> We have been told on more than one occasion that the “pro” or “sports” EOS R body will definitely be in photographers hands ahead of next summer’s Olympics in Tokyo. Whether it’s for testing or as an available product is unknown at this time.
> There are some other hints that have come our way that we will share in the near future.



Continue reading...


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## edoorn (Jul 25, 2019)

So where would the high res R be? Release before this camera?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 25, 2019)

edoorn said:


> So where would the high res R be? Release before this camera?



I think so.


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 25, 2019)

Damn that's sad.


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## Architect1776 (Jul 25, 2019)

edoorn said:


> So where would the high res R be? Release before this camera?



Patience.


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## Rivermist (Jul 25, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> Damn that's sad.


A matter of perspective I guess, looking at the 5D series the very high resolution sensor bodies were not the best selling items, and in terms of priorities the R series needs ASAP a 5D mk5 market segment body with the IBIS capability linked to a modern (i.e. more recent than the 5D Mk 4) dual pixel sensor, eventually with a very high resolution fast-reacting EVP. Dual cards is a hot topic ( not for me but it seems to be on many people's "must have" list) and faster continuous shooting (8-10 fps?) also. I associate very high resolution bodies with studio / tripod work using L primes and TS-E lenses, of which there are few in the RF lineup so far. Apart from the brilliant 50 and 85 primes most of the announcements for new lenses are zooms (trinity or not) for which the action camera is better suited.


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## max_sr (Jul 25, 2019)

New rumor: Canon will release a new camera somewhere in the future. Sources told me Canon is working on new gear, that is going to be released within the next couple of years. I rate this CR4, because it's a new source.


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## 12Broncos (Jul 25, 2019)

Ok, wait until 2020 to release, but don't wait until 2020 to announce it. I'd like to compare Sony's a9ii to Canon's pro offering. A 2020 announcement is ridiculous. You wonder why Sony is chomping up Canon's market share.


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## sdz (Jul 25, 2019)

What we may see in FF bodies in 2020:

1D X III and a RX equivalent
R 70 MP
R 30 MP w/10 FPS

These bodies may include:

IBIS
BSI sensor
Quad pixel AF
Uncropped 4K video

Much of this depends on Canon's sensor development efforts. And it's sensor development efforts must confront unfavorable markets for FF sensor cameras.


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## cayenne (Jul 25, 2019)

[rubs hands together] "C'mon 5D5-R" !!!!


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## amorse (Jul 25, 2019)

Saying there are more hints and then not sharing them is cruel!

It'll be interesting to see how these new cameras perform - it has seemed to me that the xxD series bodies have often been a precursor for several features which end up on the next 5 series body. With that said, I'm keen to learn more about the high resolution body - I was waiting on the 5DsR II, so its transition to mirrorless means that it would likely be my entry point to the R system.


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## bellorusso (Jul 25, 2019)

I read exciting Sony news, Fuji news... Hasselblad news and feel like "what the h, Canon, where are your news?"


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 25, 2019)

The clock is ticking for Canon. We rent Canon, Nikon & Sony still / video cameras through one of our business units that has two offices in the UK, one in Paris & one in Cape Town. Our customers are predominately in two areas, fashion and food. 

Canon is still the leader but this leadership is being caught up by Sony who have knocked Nikon into third place. We are merely reacting to demand and the fact Canon will have no new high end camera in 2019 either for the EF mount or RF only serves to profit Sony who have launched the A7R IV. We have pre-ordered a larger number of these than its predecessor due to the level of inquires were receiving. Canon have some good professional RF lenses but the EOS R is not a workhorse tool.


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## unfocused (Jul 25, 2019)

sdz said:


> What we may see in FF bodies in 2020:
> 
> 1D X III and a RX equivalent
> R 70 MP
> R 30 MP w/10 FPS



I doubt it. 

Canon currently offers four full frame DSLRs:
1Dx
5D 
5Ds
6D

They currently offer two full frame R bodies:
R
RP

In a shrinking ILC market, it's unlikely we will see *five* mirrorless full frame bodies.

It is much more realistic to expect an "Rx" and an "Rs"

From a market segment standpoint, Canon has slotted the RP below the 6D in price but targeted it to roughly the same buyers. They have slotted the R just below the 5D but targeted it to the same buyers. 

I would not be surprised to see the Rs slotted in as a direct replacement for the 5Ds (highest resolution sensor on the market).

I expect the Rx to fall somewhere between the 5D and 1Dx, but much closer to the 1Dx, just as the current R is only slightly under the 5D series. This will leave Canon with three full frame DSLRs (once they stop producing the 5Ds) and four R bodies. 

Those looking for an R equivalent to the 5D will need to accept that they must either go up in price and specs to the Rx, buy the high resolution Rs or quit whining about dual card slots and accept the current R, which is a very capable companion to the 5D.


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## edoorn (Jul 25, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I think so.



thanks!

It sounds like it all fits well in my gear write-off/replacement scheme


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## 12Broncos (Jul 25, 2019)

sdz said:


> What we may see in FF bodies in 2020:
> 
> 1D X III and a RX equivalent
> R 70 MP
> ...





sdz said:


> What we may see in FF bodies in 2020:
> 
> 1D X III and a RX equivalent
> R 70 MP
> ...





amorse said:


> Saying there are more hints and then not sharing them is cruel!
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how these new cameras perform - it has seemed to me that the xxD series bodies have often been a precursor for several features which end up on the next 5 series body. With that said, I'm keen to learn more about the high resolution body - I was waiting on the 5DsR II, so its transition to mirrorless means that it would likely be my entry point to the R system.


I sold my Canon 7D in hopes of getting the Mark iv. Then I read an article that stated the industry is moving away from DSLR, this was two years and little did I know I'd still waiting on Canon to get its act together.


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## Andreasb (Jul 25, 2019)

Wouldn't surprise me at all if they did announce it this fall. But when would delivery be?This could just be Canon doing classic delay tactic FUD marketing, And with the A9 MKII coming why wouldn't Canon (and Nikon) do this, I would have as a marketing tool for sure.


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## Yakodzun (Jul 25, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> I read exciting Sony news, Fuji news... Hasselblad news and feel like "what the h, Canon, where are your news?"





bellorusso said:


> I read exciting Sony news, Fuji news... Hasselblad news and feel like "what the h, Canon, where are your news?"


They have a lot of news but no cameras )))


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## 6degrees (Jul 25, 2019)

Release with RF 16-28mm F2, with price drop for RF 85mm F1.2


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## peters (Jul 25, 2019)

Imagine they wont announce a pro EOS R in 2020 :-D


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## criscokkat (Jul 25, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> A matter of perspective I guess, looking at the 5D series the very high resolution sensor bodies were not the best selling items, and in terms of priorities the R series needs ASAP a 5D mk5 market segment body with the IBIS capability linked to a modern (i.e. more recent than the 5D Mk 4) dual pixel sensor, eventually with a very high resolution fast-reacting EVP. Dual cards is a hot topic ( not for me but it seems to be on many people's "must have" list) and faster continuous shooting (8-10 fps?) also. I associate very high resolution bodies with studio / tripod work using L primes and TS-E lenses, of which there are few in the RF lineup so far. Apart from the brilliant 50 and 85 primes most of the announcements for new lenses are zooms (trinity or not) for which the action camera is better suited.


They don't need to worry about readout speed and fast tracking/focusing with an Rs camera. Once they have the sensor that can pump out that much detail they can plug it in to the regular R for the most part. But you can rest assured the Rx will come to market as soon as they possibly can. Canon knows the clock is ticking, even if they didn't seem to care about it 2 years ago. Sony has certainly lit a fire under that, but new sensor designs don't happen overnight.


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## Architect1776 (Jul 25, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> A matter of perspective I guess, looking at the 5D series the very high resolution sensor bodies were not the best selling items, and in terms of priorities the R series needs ASAP a 5D mk5 market segment body with the IBIS capability linked to a modern (i.e. more recent than the 5D Mk 4) dual pixel sensor, eventually with a very high resolution fast-reacting EVP. Dual cards is a hot topic ( not for me but it seems to be on many people's "must have" list) and faster continuous shooting (8-10 fps?) also. I associate very high resolution bodies with studio / tripod work using L primes and TS-E lenses, of which there are few in the RF lineup so far. Apart from the brilliant 50 and 85 primes most of the announcements for new lenses are zooms (trinity or not) for which the action camera is better suited.



I seriously doubt (One never really knows does one) that Canon will be introducing any long primes or TSE lenses in the near future as they were pretty much all upgraded relatively recently. I am sure those updates were done while the RF mount was being developed. Not sure that one would gain a lot if anything using an RF mount in these lenses vs and adapted EF version. Perhaps the 400mm and 600mm for sports with the additional data connections might gain something but what I don't know.


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## Architect1776 (Jul 25, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> Ok, wait until 2020 to release, but don't wait until 2020 to announce it. I'd like to compare Sony's a9ii to Canon's pro offering. A 2020 announcement is ridiculous. You wonder why Sony is chomping up Canon's market share.



I believe Sony is actually chomping up Nikon market share.


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## 12Broncos (Jul 25, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> I believe Sony is actually chomping up Nikon market share.


This is true, shame on Nikon. Once the Sony a9ii is in the hands of photographers, and Canon is still finding itself, Sony will be first in market share.


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## max_sr (Jul 25, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> I believe Sony is actually chomping up Nikon market share.



...and Canon's


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## amorse (Jul 25, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> I sold my Canon 7D in hopes of getting the Mark iv. Then I read an article that stated the industry is moving away from DSLR, this was two years and little did I know I'd still waiting on Canon to get its act together.


Yea, the rumor mill can do that, and i've been tempted to make similar decisions. I bought a 5D iv 2 years ago instead of waiting for a 5Dsr ii and continue to use it today. Nothing wrong with it at all - it's a fantastic camera. My needs aren't completely dependent on the higher resolution body, so the 5D iv does a fine job - I'd just like more cropping power than 30MP offers with the same sensor performance that the 5D iv delivers. I get into the high-iso territory on the 5D iv regularly and the 5Dsr just doesn't go high enough for my needs, so I'm left waiting for a camera that doesn't exist. With no idea of whether or not the next high-resolution body will fill the need for me, I am content to use the 5D iv until a better option exists - I'm not in a rush. I'm a big believer in investing in what works now rather than waiting and not taking photos, especially when you're not 100% sure of what's coming next!


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## 12Broncos (Jul 25, 2019)

amorse said:


> Yea, the rumor mill can do that, and i've been tempted to make similar decisions. I bought a 5D iv 2 years ago instead of waiting for a 5Dsr ii and continue to use it today. Nothing wrong with it at all - it's a fantastic camera. My needs aren't completely dependent on the higher resolution body, so the 5D iv does a fine job - I'd just like more cropping power than 30MP offers with the same sensor performance that the 5D iv delivers. I get into the high-iso territory on the 5D iv regularly and the 5Dsr just doesn't go high enough for my needs, so I'm left waiting for a camera that doesn't exist. With no idea of whether or not the next high-resolution body will fill the need for me, I am content to use the 5D iv until a better option exists - I'm not in a rush. I'm a big believer in investing in what works now rather than waiting and not taking photos, especially when you're not 100% sure of what's coming next!


Oh, I'm taking photos I have a Fujifilm X-T3, which for now is fine.


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## deleteme (Jul 25, 2019)

I am thinking/hoping the 202 date is because they are planning a profoundly dramatic introduction.

The Sony A7IV and the now rumored Nikon Z8 at 60MP imply the incremental approach is poor idea.
I am thinking that 70MP plus some real DR/noise improvements coupled with possibly innovative shutter tech and upgrades to the UX and ergonomics are in order. One can also hope for connectivity upgrades to simplify wireless connection and a proper, full featured app to control it.

And for good measure, some image processing modes that give me jpgs that rival what I get out of my phone.


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## unfocused (Jul 25, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> ...Once the Sony a9ii is in the hands of photographers, and Canon is still finding itself, Sony will be first in market share.





max_sr said:


> ...and Canon's



Proof that some people live in an alternate universe where facts don't exist.


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## genriquez (Jul 25, 2019)

Wouldn't a 1dx III DSLR make more sense for the Olympics? Pros, media, sports journalists still have Canon glass.


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## Grimbald (Jul 25, 2019)

I just hope they bring something to compete against the D850.... Still a near perfect camera in my eyes, even after 2 years. 

They way I know Canon though, I wouldn't be surprised if they released a MP Monster with bad low light capabilites and an extremly expensive 1D version with high frame rates at about 30MP....

At this point, I would already be happy if they'd just come up with something that Nikon shooters have had for the last 2 years... I don't even expect something better anymore.


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## C Tographer (Jul 25, 2019)

I want a 5D equivalent in RF mount. The current R doesn't cut it.

I want full-frame video. I want sophisticated video control. Waveform monitors. Log output, or even raw. The wait is hard.


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## jvillain (Jul 25, 2019)

I'd like the 4K they advertised in the R and didn't deliver.


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## unfocused (Jul 25, 2019)

genriquez said:


> Wouldn't a 1dx III DSLR make more sense for the Olympics? Pros, media, sports journalists still have Canon glass.


I believe the assumption is that Canon will release a 1Dx III in time for the 2020 Olympics *and* release an "Rx" as well. It's likely that professionals will stick with the 1Dx but Canon can promote the Rx as a second body. There are advantages to both form factors, so I imagine Canon will offer both for the foreseeable future. Canon seems to be playing the long game...starting to offer R mount lenses, but knowing full well that so long as their professional users are using both DSLR and mirrorless bodies, sales of R lenses will be limited. They probably want to get a Rx into the hands of professionals so that it can be field tested and refined for future generations.


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## Ozarker (Jul 25, 2019)

amorse said:


> Saying there are more hints and then not sharing them is cruel!
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how these new cameras perform - it has seemed to me that the xxD series bodies have often been a precursor for several features which end up on the next 5 series body. With that said, I'm keen to learn more about the high resolution body - I was waiting on the 5DsR II, so its transition to mirrorless means that it would likely be my entry point to the R system.


I only have the R, but besides the megapixel bump over the 5D Mark III, the R is very good on the focus end of things. My keeper rate has really gone up.


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## Ozarker (Jul 25, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> This is true, shame on Nikon. Once the Sony a9ii is in the hands of photographers, and Canon is still finding itself, Sony will be first in market share.


I've bookmarked this comment.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 25, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> A matter of perspective I guess, looking at the 5D series the very high resolution sensor bodies were not the best selling items, and in terms of priorities the R series needs ASAP a 5D mk5 market segment body with the IBIS capability linked to a modern (i.e. more recent than the 5D Mk 4) dual pixel sensor, eventually with a very high resolution fast-reacting EVP. Dual cards is a hot topic ( not for me but it seems to be on many people's "must have" list) and faster continuous shooting (8-10 fps?) also. I associate very high resolution bodies with studio / tripod work using L primes and TS-E lenses, of which there are few in the RF lineup so far. Apart from the brilliant 50 and 85 primes most of the announcements for new lenses are zooms (trinity or not) for which the action camera is better suited.


Why do you say that and what numbers do you have to back it up? Certainly in my experiences (which are not necessarily representative of the market as a whole) the 5Ds and 5DsR were very well received. Indeed there were reports from retailers that the 5DsR was in very short supply for quite a while after release as sales well outstripped projections. Indeed both cameras have held their retail price well into their life cycles and considering they are based on the older 5D MkIII and not the 5D MkIV it makes the prices even more surprising.

Further, the prices recently have taken a very steep down tick especially from the eBay clearing houses. This is normally a clear and early sign something new is close.

From a financial perspective I can see Canon moving the 5Ds/R to RF to pull those users to the new system, and release a 5D MkV shortly after the 1DX MkIII to keep people buying both systems.


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## amorse (Jul 25, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I only have the R, but besides the megapixel bump over the 5D Mark III, the R is very good on the focus end of things. My keeper rate has really gone up.


I've actually considered the R as a potential backup to my 5D IV - frankly getting the same 5D iv sensor for almost $1k less in a body which uses the same battery is an attractive proposition on its own! I've almost dropped my 5D IV off of a few cliffs and I'm just waiting or the day where it actually goes over and I'm left with no camera on hand when I need it. I think in the end I will wait and see what the high resolution body looks like, and maybe the 5D IV becomes the backup to that. If it isn't what I'm after, then odds are I'll pick up an R and that will be the backup for the foreseeable future.


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## Del Paso (Jul 25, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> They don't need to worry about readout speed and fast tracking/focusing with an Rs camera. Once they have the sensor that can pump out that much detail they can plug it in to the regular R for the most part. But you can rest assured the Rx will come to market as soon as they possibly can. Canon knows the clock is ticking, even if they didn't seem to care about it 2 years ago. Sony has certainly lit a fire under that, but new sensor designs don't happen overnight.


You're right!
And industrialization of a new body can't be achieved in a matter of weeks (development, tooling, testing, training etc...).


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## amorse (Jul 25, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Why do you say that and what numbers do you have to back it up? Certainly in my experiences (which are not necessarily representative of the market as a whole) the 5Ds and 5DsR were very well received. Indeed there were reports from retailers that the 5DsR was in very short supply for quite a while after release as sales well outstripped projections. Indeed both cameras have held their retail price well into their life cycles and considering they are based on the older 5D MkIII and not the 5D MkIV it makes the prices even more surprising.
> 
> Further, the prices recently have taken a very steep down tick especially from the eBay clearing houses. This is normally a clear and early sign something new is close.
> 
> From a financial perspective I can see Canon moving the 5Ds/R to RF to pull those users to the new system, and release a 5D MkV shortly after the 1DX MkIII to keep people buying both systems.


Hard to believe that it's already been 3 years since the 5D IV was released - I guess on the usual 4 year cycle we'd be looking at summer/fall next year for 5DV. Either way, I'm betting the 90D will give us a peek at what's planned. I'm wondering about a hybrid viewfinder - I could see that being an interesting selling feature.


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## edoorn (Jul 25, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> They don't need to worry about readout speed and fast tracking/focusing with an Rs camera. Once they have the sensor that can pump out that much detail they can plug it in to the regular R for the most part. But you can rest assured the Rx will come to market as soon as they possibly can. Canon knows the clock is ticking, even if they didn't seem to care about it 2 years ago. Sony has certainly lit a fire under that, but new sensor designs don't happen overnight.



The competition does have fast/good tracking and very decent read out skill and Nikon will most likely add a good solid body (better than the R) to their possible z8 so they will have to bring something better than just a new sensor in an old body if you ask me. I’d skip it if it has the current R body, thats for sure


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## Kit. (Jul 25, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> This is true, shame on Nikon. Once the Sony a9ii is in the hands of photographers, and Canon is still finding itself, Sony will be first in market share.


Why do you think there is such a huge market for Sony A9ii bodies?

What if Canon is actually not going to deliver a mirrorless equivalent of D1X at all because there is no viable market for it?


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## beegee (Jul 25, 2019)

Canon has had this Goto Market strategy with lenses for a long time now. The move to the EF mount from the old FD was a revolution. This coupled with the Eye-controlled focusing was something that helped them a lot and from it's introduction of EF in 1987, gave them a 5 year heads up on (Also on NIkon) the in-lens USM motor driven focus mechanism. Back in the film days, this strategy worked because at the end of it, the emulsion would factor in tremendously on what we produced. (Not refuting the talent of the photographer). Canon was very well positioned because of this approach in acquiring the market share for the EOS platform.

In today's world, with the sensors in the cameras, the attention has moved to the sensor/chip used to acquire the image. With Canon now among the only one that is doing in-house development for their sensor, it seems they are diverting a lot of their attention to the chip development. Other players like Nikon, Fuji etc. are capitalizing on the development that Sony is doing in their chip. Sony Semiconductors has always been a separate dedicated entity within the behemoth. They do not compete with resources and keep doing their chip development in isolation without impacting their imaging division. Moreover, Sony had the heads-up on MIL like Canon had with the EOS.

The strategy that I see with Canon today is that same old model of leading with the optics first. I am glad only because they have given me a tremendous set of lenses over the years. However, I am not using a film anymore. So I cannot go to my Ektachrome ISO25 and buy it and put it in my camera. I need something that "sees" what my lens will. This means the body or the capability of the body or a sense thereof will be very critical.

Sony now has a viable alternative even with their long primes. the 400 GM and the 600Gm and the 200-600 is all I would need for my wildlife needs. I am not a pro but a serious hobbyist and am sure there a lot of pros that can afford this suite with the a9xxx. I have decided to wait out this tumultuous time for the MIL landscape and see where this all ends. But "just around the corner" is becoming too tedious to take. At least knowing how long and for what we need to wait is very helpful. The old strategy with lens first in the current ecosystem, because the "focus" has moved to the sensor in the body, seems to me will impact Canon's business going forward.

Was really happy to see the EOS-R introduction, albeit with it's deficiencies, but it gives us something. Now with Photokina out of the way and people being as tight-lipped about their products as they are (perhaps for competitive advantages) Canon needs to provide some guidance for some of the folks that are still waiting eagerly for what they have in store. Tech Specs are nice at the MP/fps levels, but even if that is not there it gives us reason to wait until next April to see what they offer, but the silence is becoming deafening now.


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## syder (Jul 25, 2019)

C Tographer said:


> I want a 5D equivalent in RF mount. The current R doesn't cut it.
> 
> I want full-frame video. I want sophisticated video control. Waveform monitors. Log output, or even raw. The wait is hard.



I want I want I want.

Grow up.

And your full frame, RAW shooting pro video camera exists already, go buy an Alexa 65...

Oh wait you probably want it for 2k rather than 125k.

If you could actually use a RAW workflow buy a C200.


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## criscokkat (Jul 25, 2019)

edoorn said:


> The competition does have fast/good tracking and very decent read out skill and Nikon will most likely add a good solid body (better than the R) to their possible z8 so they will have to bring something better than just a new sensor in an old body if you ask me. I’d skip it if it has the current R body, thats for sure


I think the Rs when it comes out will be much larger than the 60mp. I wouldn't be surprised if they were close to 100. Even if the frames per second is only 5-7 this would still sell relatively well in it's niche (a small niche, granted). I think the 5dV replacement in the R will be an R mkII with a 50-60mp sensor and 10fps, and the Rx will be about the same but with the capability of hitting 20+ fps, possibly using a global shutter.

I sincerely think Canon is about to catch up in the sensor department, although it remains to be seen how much better the a9II is.the big question long term is if canon spends all this time and money developing the new sensors if they can recover the associated costs effectively. Sony has hundreds of buyers of their chips currently to spread the development costs around. But Canon definitely had the resources to crash in for at least one generation, which I think we'll see the first results at the end of next month.
**EDIT** - After seeing the rumored specs just posted for the M5/M6II, I think I may have undersold what could happen with their new sensors.


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## FredEOS (Jul 25, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> Canon currently offers four full frame DSLRs:
> 1Dx
> ...


I agree 100% with that. There will be only new mirrorless cameras in the R and M series with RF mounts and adapters for EF. DSLR is over, Sony is driving the market and set the bar with the A7R4, Canon will take the train and good stuff are coming yeah!!! I’m excited the end of the year will be fun.


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## FredEOS (Jul 25, 2019)

genriquez said:


> Wouldn't a 1dx III DSLR make more sense for the Olympics? Pros, media, sports journalists still have Canon glass.


High end will be mirrorless. The EOS Rx will be the flagship, competing with A7R4 / A9ii / Z8...


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## slclick (Jul 25, 2019)

max_sr said:


> ...and Canon's


Tell me more how market share is single handily determined by a high end body?


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## YuengLinger (Jul 25, 2019)

I'm a bit impatient, longing for those rf prime L lenses--but not enough to settle for the "placeholder" R. Fortunately I have enough lenses with my 5D IV to get by a little longer!

And it really is just a little longer. We could hear an announcement by mid to late fall, and then have a body in late winter or early spring.

But I understand the hard choices for somebody ready to make a move to a FF body with pro features, but not enough lenses to remain tied to a particular brand. Buy an R with key compromises now and use it as a second body next year when the pro body is out? Or buy a pro level dSLR now with a few ef lenses that will work on the new mirrorless in the future?

Sure Canon will lose a few sales, but they can't release a body they don't have yet. And with the camera industry in such upheaval, I doubt anybody at Canon believes a few months more for the release of a pro body will be that critical to the overall picture.

Maybe a good time for Canon to be spending extra marketing money promoting its great service, library of current ef lenses that will work fine on rf, and its industry dominance. And maybe some amazing rebate and bundle deals ahead while we wait?


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## Ozarker (Jul 25, 2019)

amorse said:


> I've actually considered the R as a potential backup to my 5D IV - frankly getting the same 5D iv sensor for almost $1k less in a body which uses the same battery is an attractive proposition on its own! I've almost dropped my 5D IV off of a few cliffs and I'm just waiting or the day where it actually goes over and I'm left with no camera on hand when I need it. I think in the end I will wait and see what the high resolution body looks like, and maybe the 5D IV becomes the backup to that. If it isn't what I'm after, then odds are I'll pick up an R and that will be the backup for the foreseeable future.


I know how you feel. I was going to get the 5D Mark IV and decided to get the R because it has the same sensor, costs far less, and for the additional ability to place the focus anywhere I want in my composition. I was skeptical of the ergonomics as compared to the 5D series (including the lack of a joystick), but all that skepticism is now gone. 

Touch and drag took a tiny bit to get used to, but that's just because muscle memory had me sending my thumb out looking for the non-existent joystick when I wanted to change focus point, even though there is no display in the viewfinder of focus points like every DSLR I have ever owned. The R doesn't display them because pretty much the whole screen can be used to place focus. That alone takes away a lot of frustration when composing my photos. Then the focusing is so right on without any need of AFMA. Another frustration removed. The eye AF works great so far.

I thought the R body might feel too small to carry around my 70-200. As it turns out, I don't notice very much difference between the two. In fact, I think the grip on the R feels better in my hand than the 5D Mark III when carrying that heavy lens. It just feels right when carrying in one hand at my side, even without a battery grip... so I won't be getting a battery grip. People, sometimes, can be very resistant to change. I was never against mirrorless. I feared the ergonomics would be like those of Sony. I had high hopes that Canon wouldn't make one of those type of bodies and Canon came through with flying colors, in my opinion.

The EVF works great for me and is leagues ahead of the one on my little Olympus.

The only thing I miss is the second card slot. I miss the peace of mind. I don't need it around the house or around town. I feel I do need it for the model boot camps and fashion shows I volunteer at for a charity non-profit. I asked myself whether or not a second card slot alone would be worth the near $1,000 more a 5D Mark IV would cost. My answer to myself was that were I a paid event or wedding photographer, or if I was a paid photographer at all, it might well be. Otherwise, for me, no. I still would prefer the second card slot, but the trade off is the virtually unlimited focus points and no AFMA.

So for just $150 more than a 5D mark IV, I got the R and also the RF 24-105mm f/4L lens. That package is a great value if one doesn't mind f/4.

It will be interesting to see what the high megapixel model offers users. I'll hope to see what you have to say if you get one. It will probably be out of my price range enough to add a fast RF lens instead. 30 megapixels is enough for me.

I am seriously thinking of selling my 5D Mark III to help finance a second R. Having matching bodies would make things quicker to adjust to when switching between cameras when I want to carry two. I sold a lot of stuff to get the R.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the R to anyone who is looking to go full frame.


----------



## max_sr (Jul 25, 2019)

slclick said:


> Tell me more how market share is single handily determined by a high end body?



This has nothing to do with a single high end body. And if you think Sony is only taking market share from Nikon, but not from Canon, you are fooling yourself.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 25, 2019)

max_sr said:


> This has nothing to do with a single high end body. And if you think Sony is only taking market share from Nikon, but not from Canon, you are fooling yourself.


Sony hasn't taken any marketshare from Canon. So, who is fooling who?   Sony has lost market share, along with Nikon. It looks as though Fuji and Canon are killing Nikon and Sony. The *illusory truth effect* (also known as the *validity effect*, *truth effect* or the *reiteration effect*) is the tendency to believe information to be correct after repeated exposure. Facts vs. forum urban legends..


https://petapixel.com/2019/07/08/canon-increased-market-share-in-2018-but-camera-market-continues-to-bleed/


----------



## 12Broncos (Jul 25, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Why do you think there is such a huge market for Sony A9ii bodies?
> 
> What if Canon is actually not going to deliver a mirrorless equivalent of D1X at all because there is no viable market for it?


Right now Sony is the only market for prosumer/pro mirrorless cameras. Canon has already stated they are coming out with such a camera.


----------



## 12Broncos (Jul 25, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Sony hasn't taken any marketshare from Canon. So, who is fooling who?   Sony has lost market share.
> 
> 
> https://petapixel.com/2019/07/08/canon-increased-market-share-in-2018-but-camera-market-continues-to-bleed/


Not yet.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 25, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> Not yet.


Haven't ever. Amazon is having a sale on crystal balls.  Buy a Sony camera and they send you one for free. Made in Atlantis is stamped on the bottom. Ships free from the Bermuda Triangle. I am starting to think all the Sony fanboys are into cosplay full time. They're always getting steam punked by the propaganda floating around the Sony forums.

*Spec sheet for the crystal ball is awesome.
** Why does it always seem to be a new account at Canon Rumors that does this stuff?
***Rhetorical question. We already know the answer.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 25, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> Right now Sony is the only market for prosumer/pro mirrorless cameras. Canon has already stated they are coming out with such a camera.


Too bad for Sony's camera division. Canon might hire some of them after the big layoffs.


----------



## slclick (Jul 25, 2019)

max_sr said:


> This has nothing to do with a single high end body. And if you think Sony is only taking market share from Nikon, but not from Canon, you are fooling yourself.


The original comment stated that the model would make the change. You did not back up that statement but alluded towards my intelligence which detracts from your post greatly. Balls in your court.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 26, 2019)

C Tographer said:


> I want a 5D equivalent in RF mount. The current R doesn't cut it.
> 
> I want full-frame video. I want sophisticated video control. Waveform monitors. Log output, or even raw. The wait is hard.


It's already here except for the second card slot. It's called "R".


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 26, 2019)

Has there been any rumours about a 5Dv?


----------



## slclick (Jul 26, 2019)

David - Sydney said:


> Has there been any rumours about a 5Dv?


It'll happen, don't listen to Pape. But you might need to give it 10-12 months


----------



## goldenhusky (Jul 26, 2019)

Yep, it is always an eternal wait with Canon, No answer to D750, no contest to D850, A7r3, no 200-600mm, etc. All their innovation ends in patents. For Canon to wake up their rear end should be set on fire. That is not happening at all, Canon keep gaining market share. So they have no reason to deliver a revolutionary product at all. Keep doing the same non sense Canon luck is fully in your favor!!!


----------



## slclick (Jul 26, 2019)

goldenhusky said:


> Yep, it is always an eternal wait with Canon, No answer to D750, no contest to D850, A7r3, no 200-600mm, etc. All their innovation ends in patents. For Canon to wake up their rear end should be set on fire. That is not happening at all, Canon keep gaining market share. So they have no reason to deliver a revolutionary product at all. Keep doing the same non sense Canon luck is fully in your favor!!!


They are in business to make money , not to make our dream camera come true.


----------



## slclick (Jul 26, 2019)

slclick said:


> The original comment stated that the model would make the change. You did not back up that statement but alluded towards my intelligence which detracts from your post greatly. Balls in your court.


*crickets* yeah, that's what I thought


----------



## syder (Jul 26, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> C Tographer said:
> 
> 
> I want a 5D equivalent in RF mount. The current R doesn't cut it.
> ...



Sorry, but no.

The R does not shoot raw video. It shoots 8 bit 4:2:0.

AFAIK it does not have a waveform monitor - which is near essential for properly judging exposure for chromakeying among other things.

And the 4K crop is nothing like Full Frame.

You can get those things in a camera today, but your options are the Arri Alexa 65, Red Monstro, Sony Venice (with external recorder for RAW), or Canon C700FF (with codex recorder for RAW). All of which are high end cinema cameras costing between $40 and 128k, not mirrorless still/hybrid cameras available for $2/3k.

I'd wager that 95% of those who profess to want such things wouldn't be able to cope with the workflow anyway - shooting S35 4K RAW on a C200, a 256GB CFAST card gives you half an hour of footage. Securely storing that kind of volume of data isn't a problem if you have a 120TB video editing server, but if you're not a post production house you dont have one. 

I guess if all you're doing is articulating weird 'i want' filled tech-based wet dreams that kind of practical point doesn't matter though.


----------



## slclick (Jul 26, 2019)

syder said:


> Sorry, but no.
> 
> The R does not shoot raw video. It shoots 8 bit 4:2:0.
> 
> ...


WTF are you guys making? I mean all the video whining here on CR, just what video content are you NYU grads creating? The video crying is soooo old. It's obvious Canon isn't giving you what you want, it's been this way for years so my question is, why are you holding on, begging, wishing, wanting and complaining? Get the Sony you jabber on about incessantly and create this wondrous movie art in glorious 4/8k. The world awaits your masterpiece. Btw, Canon cameras are great for stills.


----------



## Romain (Jul 26, 2019)

I JUST STICK WITH MY 70D AND MY 6D1. OTHERS STICK WITH THEIR 60D AND THEIR 5D3 OR 2... WE WANT A DSLR 90D, A 6D3, AND A 5D5!!!!!! W DNT GV A FCK ABT THE 80D, 6D2, 5D4 AND OTHERS ML APS-C AND ML FF BODIES... I HAVE EF-S, EF AND EF-L LENSES. WE NEED 10 YEARS AT LEAST TO SPEND THE MONEY CANON WANT FROM US TO CHANGE FOR A NEW MOUNT AND NEW ATTRACTIVES BODIES, DESPITE THE ADAPTER ( LENGTH AND WEIGHT ISSUES...) DSLR MARKET IS THE NEAR FUTURE... ARE THEY STUPID? NOW, THEY MASTER THE DSLR GAME BECAUSE THEY ARE LATE!.. I REPEAT, ARE THEY STUPID???..


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jul 26, 2019)

Geez .. at this rate maybe I should buy the 28-70mm and just start saving all over again for a "pro" R body ... 

Honestly, the R is so good to shoot with, and I do have a 2 card 5DS .. I could find the best deal possible and buy another EOS R for a 3rd body. I use 2 bodes and the M5 doesn't really cut it for a 3rd body at weddings.

Had really hoped another RF would become available this fall or winter.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 26, 2019)

syder said:


> Sorry, but no.
> 
> The R does not shoot raw video. It shoots 8 bit 4:2:0.
> 
> ...


True, it doesn't matter. He'll never, ever get that in a 5D series. Sounds like he needs a second mortgage.  For a second there I thought he said he wanted a 5D series equivalent (Where I stopped reading) ... which at this point is the R. Actually better. Had my Los Angeles Rams been able to move the goal posts like that, they'd have won the Super Bowl and I'd be married to... well, can't mention her name (court order).  Sorry. I should have read better. I didn't know 5D Series equivalent meant "Arri Alexa 65, Red Monstro, Sony Venice, Canon C700" specs. Silly me. The 5D series is stills oriented. That's what I get for never shooting video.  Never looked at the R video specs. because they don't matter to me. I use a Sony Handycam for that. Getting hard to find tapes.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 26, 2019)

slclick said:


> They are in business to make money , not to make our dream camera come true.


No, they're in the "nonsense luck" business, and still gaining market share.


----------



## sdz (Jul 26, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> Canon currently offers four full frame DSLRs:
> 1Dx
> ...



The R II might be the 5D replacement. I doubt Canon would neglect that market segment.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 26, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> Right now Sony is the only market for prosumer/pro mirrorless cameras. Canon has already stated they are coming out with such a camera.


Every non-phone camera now is a prosumer camera. So, Canon and other camera manufacturers have plenty of prosumer mirrorless and prosumer DSLRs. What makes you think that it's a mirrorless equivalent of D1X that will somehow change the market?


----------



## edoorn (Jul 26, 2019)

goldenhusky said:


> Yep, it is always an eternal wait with Canon, No answer to D750, no contest to D850, A7r3, no 200-600mm, etc. All their innovation ends in patents. For Canon to wake up their rear end should be set on fire. That is not happening at all, Canon keep gaining market share. So they have no reason to deliver a revolutionary product at all. Keep doing the same non sense Canon luck is fully in your favor!!!



Depends on your needs; I always used the 5D bodies which are a great compromise between small size, pro features and the perfect file size for events. A D750 is positioned below that, a D850 above it (not sure about the mraw capabilities of this thing but I'd rather not shoot an event netting >5000 images on a day with it). When the 5D IV was released, it was IMO the best pro body available that was compact (more compact than 1D or D5 series).

A 200-600 is nice, but the 100-400 is IQ-wise better probably.

The fact that other brands are making certain choices doesn't mean Canon has to follow that same path.

When someone would say Canon in the past couple of years is not leading in tech push is probably right, but I can see them getting back in the game. About 18 months ago or so, we saw some interviews with officials of the company saying Canon would be focussing more on R&D and innovation; it could well be that we'll see the results of that in the coming years. I certainly hope so!


----------



## max_sr (Jul 26, 2019)

slclick said:


> *crickets* yeah, that's what I thought



Sorry I was sleeping. The original comment also metioned Canon's market share and not Nikon's, but whatever. And I'm sure an A9II would have little impact on Sony's marketshare, just like a 1DXIII will have little impact on Canon's. So sure, Canon seems to ship out lots of M50s and rebels, and they probably also sell quite a few of them. 
But what I would really like to know is how many of those f1.2 RF lenses they sold. Or how many 7dIIs they sold over the last 2 years. But you don't get any of those numbers only produced and shipped cameras, if somebody buys them or not. And if Sony will increase it's market share, it will undoubtedly eat away from Canon as well, not just Nikon.

I would really like to see rumours about a 50 1.4 EF or that elusive 200-600mm. Or just something else than only "Canon may release something next year, maybe." But I guess there is not much to report right now and if there would be, the rumors would be so far off, that most people would be disappointed by the real product. Again.



PS: I also don't get the obsession with market share. As if a bigger market share means that the products by that company are better. They are cheaper. That's it mostly. That's why more burgers are sold than lobsters, and more Honda Civics than Mercedes S-Class cars. Is Market share really the only thing Canon fans can be proud about? Oh, and of course: colour science. Anyway, I'm out _using_ my 7DII. Bye.


----------



## max_sr (Jul 26, 2019)

syder said:


> Sorry, but no.
> 
> The R does not shoot raw video. It shoots 8 bit 4:2:0.
> 
> ...



If videos is the only concern the Sigma fp would tick some of those boxes...


----------



## syder (Jul 26, 2019)

max_sr said:


> If videos is the only concern the Sigma fp would tick some of those boxes...



It might, but the camera isn't out and Sigma mention a 1.5x crop in their promotional materials. In which case it would be one of many S35 cameras to shoot raw video rather one of the few FF35 cameras to do so.

There are all manner of cameras that do some of the things listed. And very few that do all of them.


----------



## VOTOXY (Jul 26, 2019)

So guys, do you think the RX will be a baby 1dx II or a baby 1dx III ..?

Ok 1dx II is amazing in every way possible, but do you think Canon will once again kind of "hold back" on the RX series to keep some sort of market shares in the DSLR world ?

I'm really worried that they would do something like that

I want my EOS RX to be at least as good as Sonys, if not groundbreaking.. Is it too much to ask you think ?


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 26, 2019)

> ... I want my EOS RX to be at least as good as Sonys, if not groundbreaking.. Is it too much to ask you think ?...



Sounds like you are better of with Sony. Why holding back if you can delve into the Sony awesomeness already today. 

Seriously though, if you cannot “produce” amazing photos with 1DX II or 5D4 then something is wrong and that isn’t your canon camera. 
If only I can use RF 28-70/2.0 on 1DXIi or 5D4, I would not be thinking of upgrading to Canon R system.


----------



## jolyonralph (Jul 26, 2019)

Romain said:


> I JUST STICK WITH MY 70D AND MY 6D1. OTHERS STICK WITH THEIR 60D AND THEIR 5D3 OR 2... WE WANT A DSLR 90D, A 6D3, AND A 5D5!!!!!! W DNT GV A FCK ABT THE 80D, 6D2, 5D4 AND OTHERS ML APS-C AND ML FF BODIES... I HAVE EF-S, EF AND EF-L LENSES. WE NEED 10 YEARS AT LEAST TO SPEND THE MONEY CANON WANT FROM US TO CHANGE FOR A NEW MOUNT AND NEW ATTRACTIVES BODIES, DESPITE THE ADAPTER ( LENGTH AND WEIGHT ISSUES...) DSLR MARKET IS THE NEAR FUTURE... ARE THEY STUPID? NOW, THEY MASTER THE DSLR GAME BECAUSE THEY ARE LATE!.. I REPEAT, ARE THEY STUPID???..



Really, its 2019 and people are still using capslock on forum posts like it's 1996 again? I couldn't bear trying to read this, I'm sure it was insightful, but I'll never know because it's painful to look at.


----------



## Viggo (Jul 26, 2019)

I like Tool and Slayer, I don’t like Bieber and the likes. That’s why I listen to Tool and Slayer and really enjoy it. I don’t listen to Bieber and then proceed to go online in a Bieber-fan forum and b!tch for all eternity he’s not releasing music like Tool. How is that not common sense anymore?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 26, 2019)

max_sr said:


> And if Sony will increase it's market share, it will undoubtedly eat away from Canon as well, not just Nikon.
> 
> PS: I also don't get the obsession with market share. As if a bigger market share means that the products by that company are better. They are cheaper. That's it mostly. That's why more burgers are sold than lobsters, and more Honda Civics than Mercedes S-Class cars. Is Market share really the only thing Canon fans can be proud about? Oh, and of course: colour science. Anyway, I'm out _using_ my 7DII. Bye.


Except that’s not what the data show. I don’t get why people think that if they repeat false statements over and over on the internet, it somehow makes them true.

PS: I don’t get the people obsessed with claiming that ‘Canon is *******’ or ‘everyone is switching to Sony’. Market share means that people who make such claims have difficulty grasping reality.


----------



## BillB (Jul 26, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Except that’s not what the data show. I don’t get why people think that if they repeat false statements over and over on the internet, it somehow makes them true.
> 
> PS: I don’t get the people obsessed with claiming that ‘Canon is *******’ or ‘everyone is switching to Sony’. Market share means that people who make such claims have difficulty grasping reality.


What does reality have to do with it.


----------



## rgeorge33 (Jul 26, 2019)

Viggo said:


> I like Tool and Slayer, I don’t like Bieber and the likes. That’s why I listen to Tool and Slayer and really enjoy it. I don’t listen to Bieber and then proceed to go online in a Bieber-fan forum and b!tch for all eternity he’s not releasing music like Tool. How is that not common sense anymore?



Yes... Let’s not allow dissenting opinions on a chat forum. Only like minded posts should be here to form a proper echo chamber.

I think it’s entirely possible to appreciate some of Canon’s attributes, such as ergonomics and refinement, while also praising Sony’s ability to innovate and push the market with features like their autofocus. 

Having said this, I’m sure I’ll get flamed by the pro-echo chamber contingent...


----------



## Viggo (Jul 26, 2019)

rgeorge33 said:


> Yes... Let’s not allow dissenting opinions on a chat forum. Only like minded posts should be here to form a proper echo chamber.
> 
> I think it’s entirely possible to appreciate some of Canon’s attributes, such as ergonomics and refinement, while also praising Sony’s ability to innovate and push the market with features like their autofocus.
> 
> Having said this, I’m sure I’ll get flamed by the pro-echo chamber contingent...


I’m sure you felt I wrote that to you, but it’s for those who keeeep ooon praising Sony yet keep their Canon, or don’t even own a Canon that is the issue. It’s one thing to discuss what Canon can do different and perhaps better and another thing this constant bs...


----------



## YuengLinger (Jul 26, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Except that’s not what the data show. I don’t get why people think that if they repeat false statements over and over on the internet, it somehow makes them true.
> 
> PS: I don’t get the people obsessed with claiming that ‘Canon is *******’ or ‘everyone is switching to Sony’. Market share means that people who make such claims have difficulty grasping reality.


The news media here in the USA depends heavily on repeating false statements over and over, and it seems to be working for them with their target audiences. So the people who keep repeating here are simply emulating what they are exposed to, and likely influenced by.

And, besides, the poor souls working for the Russian Troll Farms don't get fed unless they keep trolling.

I'm pretty sure you are only rhetorically scratching your head.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 26, 2019)

rgeorge33 said:


> Yes... Let’s not allow dissenting opinions on a chat forum. Only like minded posts should be here to form a proper echo chamber.
> 
> I think it’s entirely possible to appreciate some of Canon’s attributes, such as ergonomics and refinement, while also praising Sony’s ability to innovate and push the market with features like their autofocus.
> 
> Having said this, I’m sure I’ll get flamed by the pro-echo chamber contingent...



The thing that annoys me is that it's *only* sony people doing this. I haven't encountered people using Nikon, Fuji, Olympus invading forums and social media to respond to everything that isn't their brand to loudly proclaim how much better their brand is. 
So when Roger at lensrentals.com publishes a new MTF article and calls out that behaviour it makes me smile. It also turns me off the Sony brand since I associate it with loudmouthed jerks.


----------



## ToonD (Jul 26, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Why do you think there is such a huge market for Sony A9ii bodies?
> 
> Speaking as a sports photographer: because the Sony A9 camera can do things that a 1DX II can't do. I have no idea of global market figures but in my country a lot of sports photographers are switching to the Sony A9 and lenses.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 26, 2019)

ToonD said:


> I have no idea of global market figures but in my country a lot of sports photographers are switching to the Sony A9 and lenses.


It's nice that you have registered to answer to my comment. What country are you from? How many sports photographers are there? How many of them have bought Sony A9?


----------



## ToonD (Jul 26, 2019)

I am from the Netherlands and I don't no how many sport photographers there are in total. Some 150 are members of the professional national organisation. Yesterday I shot a Euro League match and 3 out of 10 were Sony shooters. As a professional switching brands this is a big thing. Not only the bodies but also lenses, flashes, remote trigger cables, memory cards, etc.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 26, 2019)

ToonD said:


> I am from the Netherlands and I don't no how many sport photographers there are in total. Some 150 are members of the professional national organisation. Yesterday I shot a Euro League match and 3 out of 10 were Sony shooters. As a professional switching brands this is a big thing. Not only the bodies but also lenses, flashes, remote trigger cables, memory cards, etc.


So, the target market is several hundred potential clients per country of 17 million people?

And what sports shooting functionality do you think will be in the "pro R", but not in the next mirrored body of the 1DX series?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 26, 2019)

Kit. said:


> So, the target market is several hundred potential clients per country of 17 million people?
> 
> And what sports shooting functionality do you think will be in the "pro R", but not in the next mirrored body of the 1DX series?


SILENT SHOOTING, no viewfinder blackout at well above possible DSLR speeds.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 26, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> SILENT SHOOTING, no viewfinder blackout at well above possible DSLR speeds.



It _has_ to have these things. The A9 does, and it's years old. I also say "has to" because they're important to me, especially silent shooting with a fast electronic shutter. I will be unambiguously disappointed if the RX doesn't perform well in these respects, since to me, they are the prime advantage of a mirrorless system - I don't care about supposed savings in size and weight, but a great silent mode is among the highest priority features to me, and something Canon's DSLRs have yet to offer (to my knowledge).


----------



## Kit. (Jul 26, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> SILENT SHOOTING, no viewfinder blackout at well above possible DSLR speeds.


What's wrong with using Live View (with or without external HDMI monitor)? It's not like "SILENT SHOOTING" only works with RF lenses or you can scare sports players with your mirror sound but not with your big white lens.


----------



## ToonD (Jul 26, 2019)

Kit. said:


> So, the target market is several hundred potential clients per country of 17 million people?
> 
> And what sports shooting functionality do you think will be in the "pro R", but not in the next mirrored body of the 1DX series?


Maybe, I guess that an A9 camera competes with the 1D cameras. So I don't know how many 1D cameras are sold on a yearly basis. To answer your question: higher frame rate, no blackout, silent shooting, electronic viewfinder functionality, eye autofocus and regular firmware updates that brings new functionality. Hoping for identical memory card slots, in body wifi and same price as the 1DX III. But I think it will be disappointing.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 26, 2019)

Kit. said:


> And what sports shooting functionality do you think will be in the "pro R", but not in the next mirrored body of the 1DX series?



I don't think the next 1Dx will let me select the focus points by moving my thumb on the touch screen. Much faster and more responsive than a joystick. If it could, it would be great, but I don't see that happening. 

It probably won't let the focus points go as far out toward the edge of the scene either. 



Kit. said:


> What's wrong with using Live View (with or without external HDMI monitor)?...


There is no way in hell I could shoot sports in live view. Can't see crap in sunlight, can't follow the action easily, the ergonomics of live view are horrendous. Live view is fine for static subjects and video, but I certainly don't have the skill set to shoot sports in live view, nor would I want to.


----------



## ToonD (Jul 26, 2019)

Kit. said:


> What's wrong with using Live View (with or without external HDMI monitor)? It's not like "SILENT SHOOTING" only works with RF lenses or you can scare sports players with your mirror sound but not with your big white lens.


Shooting for example golf with live view on a sunny day is not going to work very well I guess. It's great looking through the viewfinder seeing all the info you need. Take the shot. Select the best photo and send it via ftp to the client. All without taking your eye from the viewfinder and without needing any add ons on your camera body.


----------



## Pape (Jul 27, 2019)

I would be supriced if 1dx3 doesnt have both focus moving methods ,joystic and touch screen drag


----------



## 12Broncos (Jul 27, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Proof that some people live in an alternate universe where facts don't exist.


"Canon, Nikon and Panasonic are simply getting lapped by Sony in the mirrorless race." Sony a9ii being announced in little more than a month. Canon? The Powershot G7 X. I have to contain my excitement. Not really.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 27, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> "Canon, Nikon and Panasonic are simply getting lapped by Sony in the mirrorless race."


No one but you cares about what excites you. Canon sells more MILCs (in Japan, no global data), global ILCs, and global digital cameras than Sony. Enjoy life in your fantasy world.


----------



## stevelee (Jul 27, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> "Canon, Nikon and Panasonic are simply getting lapped by Sony in the mirrorless race." Sony a9ii being announced in little more than a month. Canon? The Powershot G7 X. I have to contain my excitement. Not really.


I have no interest in the Sony, and I'm likely to buy one of the new Powershots, so I'm not mirroring your personal adrenaline level.


----------



## stevelee (Jul 27, 2019)

max_sr said:


> PS: I also don't get the obsession with market share. As if a bigger market share means that the products by that company are better. They are cheaper. That's it mostly. That's why more burgers are sold than lobsters, and more Honda Civics than Mercedes S-Class cars. Is Market share really the only thing Canon fans can be proud about? Oh, and of course: colour science. Anyway, I'm out _using_ my 7DII. Bye.



Market share gives people something measurable to talk about. Yet people still manage to argue about it on line. I can't see any further reason to be interested in it as a consumer, maybe even not so much as an investor. If a company is faring so poorly that it might go out of business soon, then I probably don't want to buy more of their stock or buy new products that might not get serviced in a few years. Otherwise, it's just a number that is worth maybe a quick nod each year. 

If it is a tribal thing, (like the people who say they are on ships and might jump off them), then there's the bragging rights of my tribe's brand beats yours, then I can't relate. My Sony TV is in the living room. I have a Samsung in my bedroom. I don't change my personal identity when I walk from one room to the other. Both brands may be down in terms of TV market share from when I bought those sets. That hasn't affected the picture on either one.

I recall a few years back when pundits were (yet again) predicting Apple's demise as iPhone market share continued to fall, and Samsung's share was stable at best. Someone pointed out that together Apple and Samsung could account for something like 135% of the profits in that market.


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## slclick (Jul 27, 2019)

rgeorge33 said:


> Yes... Let’s not allow dissenting opinions on a chat forum. Only like minded posts should be here to form a proper echo chamber.
> 
> I think it’s entirely possible to appreciate some of Canon’s attributes, such as ergonomics and refinement, while also praising Sony’s ability to innovate and push the market with features like their autofocus.
> 
> Having said this, I’m sure I’ll get flamed by the pro-echo chamber contingent...


OMG you miss the point by a mile.The website isn't a pat on the back preach to the choir space, it's to discuss potential new Canon and Industry gear. Sure there will be dissent but after a certain amount of complaint saturation it had become clear that MANY just like to whine. We are not talking about healthy debate yet about keyboard courage meanness and negativity.Vast difference.


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## Kit. (Jul 27, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> "Canon, Nikon and Panasonic are simply getting lapped by Sony in the mirrorless race." Sony a9ii being announced in little more than a month. Canon? The Powershot G7 X. I have to contain my excitement. Not really.


Getting excited by something that has not even been announced yet?


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## Kit. (Jul 27, 2019)

max_sr said:


> That's why more burgers are sold than lobsters, and more Honda Civics than Mercedes S-Class cars.


Lobsters used to be a junk food.



max_sr said:


> Is Market share really the only thing Canon fans can be proud about?


Personally, I care about what I will be using, and for how long.


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## canonmike (Jul 27, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


As the Canon flock tries to maintain their patience, it's wearing thin as they continue to take it on the chin from other Mfgs. mirrorless offerings. While we wait for Canon to pull a rabbit out of the hat, their competition has already given the market high res camera bodies with fast frame rates, eye controlled focus, IBIS, dual card slots and more. So, to hear that in a year or so, Canon will probably, almost surely, maybe sometime, perhaps eventually bring life to this long awaited pro body is hardly earth shattering news, nor does it excite the senses. I have yet to see any "real" prolonged enthusiasm in the sports and wildlife camp about any current Canon R offerings. Those that have gambled and bought an R body, make sure they bring along their second card slot, affectionately known as their 5D or 1Dx or even a 7D ii, conspicuously slung over the other shoulder, always at the ready. There are many willing to wait but any pro body offering better wow them with state of the art features in a body that hasn't been dumbed down or crippled with excuses. I, so hope this pro body plays out that way and we hear a collective "Wow!" when it finally makes its way to the marketplace. Knowing that Canon expects a 40% downtown in camera sales over the next yr or so has to make us wonder how they will manage to maintain enough enthusiasm and motivation to produce new offerings for a marketplace hungry for that next body but not necessarily willing to pay for it.


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## Viggo (Jul 27, 2019)

canonmike said:


> As the Canon flock tries to maintain their patience, it's wearing thin as they continue to take it on the chin from other Mfgs. mirrorless offerings. While we wait for Canon to pull a rabbit out of the hat, their competition has already given the market high res camera bodies with fast frame rates, eye controlled focus, IBIS, dual card slots and more. So, to hear that in a year or so, Canon will probably, almost surely, maybe sometime, perhaps eventually bring life to this long awaited pro body is hardly earth shattering news, nor does it excite the senses. I have yet to see any "real" prolonged enthusiasm in the sports and wildlife camp about any current Canon R offerings. Those that have gambled and bought an R body, make sure they bring along their second card slot, affectionately known as their 5D or 1Dx or even a 7D ii, conspicuously slung over the other shoulder, always at the ready. There are many willing to wait but any pro body offering better wow them with state of the art features in a body that hasn't been dumbed down or crippled with excuses. I, so hope this pro body plays out that way and we hear a collective "Wow!" when it finally makes its way to the marketplace. Knowing that Canon expects a 40% downtown in camera sales over the next yr or so has to make us wonder how they will manage to maintain enough enthusiasm and motivation to produce new offerings for a marketplace hungry for that next body but not necessarily willing to pay for it.


Yesh... Canon is the ONLY company that experiences a downperiod in the camera industry... 

What you also fail to understand is that Canon is not even a year in the FF mirrorless market, how far was Sony along within the first year?

The R isn’t a wildlife camera, it isn’t a sports camera or super high res. Stop trying to judge the entire R system based on these two bodies we actually have. It’s useless...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 27, 2019)

canonmike said:


> As the Canon flock tries to maintain their patience, it's wearing thin as they continue to take it on the chin from other Mfgs. mirrorless offerings. While we wait for Canon to pull a rabbit out of the hat, their competition has already given the market high res camera bodies with fast frame rates, eye controlled focus, IBIS, dual card slots and more.


And yet...the market that has been given ‘all these great features’ by other manufacturers is...wait for it...still buying more Canon cameras. 

I wonder, does ‘taking it on the chin’ from facts and reality hurt? Do let us know.


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## stevelee (Jul 27, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Lobsters used to be a junk food.



I've been traveling around in Maine in September, when I'd see signboards outside of restaurants along the way. They offered two whole lobsters for some ridiculously small price, by my perception at the time. That may have been the trip when I had lobster in some form at every meal in Maine, including the McLobster sandwich at McDonald's in Freeport.

I'm used to lobsters being somewhat expensive, largely because of shipping costs. They used to keep a few live ones in tanks at the grocery stores around here, but I haven't noticed them lately.


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## slclick (Jul 27, 2019)

And yet Freshies of Salt Lake City won the 2017 and 2nd place in 2018 National Lobster Roll contest! (damn they are expensive as well)


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## unfocused (Jul 27, 2019)

canonmike said:


> ...Those that have gambled and bought an R body, make sure they bring along their second card slot, affectionately known as their 5D or 1Dx or even a 7D ii, conspicuously slung over the other shoulder, always at the ready...



Not your intention, but you are inadvertently affirming the value of the R body and roughly describing my own experience. I bought the R as an extra body for a specific purpose (silent shooting at events where the noise of the 1Dx II is too distracting). Yet, I enjoy shooting with the R so much that I'm finding that I want to try it in situations where I know it has limitations (sports and birds in flight). Whereas I would ordinarily be using a 1Dx II, 5DIV or 7DII, I'm inclined to try the R first and keep one of those other bodies "conspicuously slung over the other shoulder, always at the ready" not because the R doesn't satisfy, but exactly the opposite: I enjoy using its touch screen focus so much, that I'm inclined to give it a go despite knowing full well it was not designed nor purchased for that purpose. 

Those photographers you are describing came there intending to use one of the other bodies, but they are defaulting to the R and relegating the other bodies to back up status.


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## canonmike (Jul 27, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Yesh... Canon is the ONLY company that experiences a downperiod in the camera industry...
> 
> What you also fail to understand is that Canon is not even a year in the FF mirrorless market, how far was Sony along within the first year?
> 
> The R isn’t a wildlife camera, it isn’t a sports camera or super high res. Stop trying to judge the entire R system based on these two bodies we actually have. It’s useless...


Appreciate your input. First, let me make it clear that I have been a Canon user since 1987 and I don't own any Fujicisony wonderba camera gear. That being said, I do judge the R system based on "these two bodies", as you refer to them, because that's all they have, currently. I'm not saying they are not good cameras but they don't fit my needs and they don't work for me. Also, it is not my fault that Canon, almost completely ignored the mirrorless threat, primarily from Sony, for a long long time. Whether the reason was just hoping mirrorless offerings were just a temporary fad and would go away or they were resting on the success of their DSLR offerings, or some other reason, unknown to me, the fact is, they were caught completely off guard by how successful mirrorless body sales were changing the market. So, if they only finally did something about FF mirrorless offerings a year ago, primarily to stop brand defections, that is their fault. They certainly have had the know how, the resources and the qualified engineers for more than a year but failed to take advantage of them. During those years of debate, I would certainly have been thrilled to sit behind closed doors with any of the product development teams at Canon and just listened to the dialogue of verbal volleyball, justifying why they weren't ready to pursue mirrorless cameras, full frame or otherwise. Apparently, they were content to just read Sony's annual financial report, ignoring the resounding success of mirrorless camera sales and profits shown year after year, until they finally saw they were missing out, as DSLR sales continued to slide. Let me make it clear that I love my Canon gear but am most disappointed that I might have to wait a year or more for that Pro R body. In the meantime, it gives me great pleasure that you and others are most happy with your R's performance. Since I am spending my money on any new eqpt and not yours', I'll just wait, optimistically but with guarded anticipation.


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## Viggo (Jul 27, 2019)

canonmike said:


> Appreciate your input. First, let me make it clear that I have been a Canon user since 1987 and I don't own any Fujicisony wonderba camera gear. That being said, I do judge the R system based on "these two bodies", as you refer to them, because that's all they have, currently. I'm not saying they are not good cameras but they don't fit my needs and they don't work for me. Also, it is not my fault that Canon, almost completely ignored the mirrorless threat, primarily from Sony, for a long long time. Whether the reason was just hoping mirrorless offerings were just a temporary fad and would go away or they were resting on the success of their DSLR offerings, or some other reason, unknown to me, the fact is, they were caught completely off guard by how successful mirrorless body sales were changing the market. So, if they only finally did something about FF mirrorless offerings a year ago, primarily to stop brand defections, that is their fault. They certainly have had the know how, the resources and the qualified engineers for more than a year but failed to take advantage of them. During those years of debate, I would certainly have been thrilled to sit behind closed doors with any of the product development teams at Canon and just listened to the dialogue of verbal volleyball, justifying why they weren't ready to pursue mirrorless cameras, full frame or otherwise. Apparently, they were content to just read Sony's annual financial report, ignoring the resounding success of mirrorless camera sales and profits shown year after year, until they finally saw they were missing out, as DSLR sales continued to slide. Let me make it clear that I love my Canon gear but am most disappointed that I might have to wait a year or more for that Pro R body. In the meantime, it gives me great pleasure that you and others are most happy with your R's performance. Since I am spending my money on any new eqpt and not yours', I'll just wait, optimistically but with guarded anticipation.


But, then either wait or buy Sony or stop complaining. Canon won’t make anything faster and they have very good reason for every single decision they make. I trust that they know wth they are doing. There are MANY things I wish would do or had done, but I accept that they are not really interested in me running the company, and I don’t know anywhere near enough what goes on inside Canon to possibly even make an assumption. 

I believe they have the best glass and the the RF lenses are the best (a lot) of money can buy, so I bought them. I also believe that Canon can’t release everything at once and I understand the strategy they have chosen, which I much prefer over Nikon’s strategy with more pro bodies and seriously boring lenses on release. 

I wish they would’ve released a complete lineup of lenses and bodies on day one 5 years ago, but I also understand why they didn’t.

It’s like Samsung vs Apple for me, Samsung looks to be better on paper, and more and better functions and then Apple “copies” that two years later. But, Apple perfects it and have no issues and just. works, and MUCH better than Samsung and still does five years later.

Canon may seem late, but they perfect it and delivers WAY beyond specs. That’s why I keep using Canon and have zero interest in anything else.


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## BillB (Jul 28, 2019)

canonmike said:


> Appreciate your input. First, let me make it clear that I have been a Canon user since 1987 and I don't own any Fujicisony wonderba camera gear. That being said, I do judge the R system based on "these two bodies", as you refer to them, because that's all they have, currently. I'm not saying they are not good cameras but they don't fit my needs and they don't work for me. Also, it is not my fault that Canon, almost completely ignored the mirrorless threat, primarily from Sony, for a long long time. Whether the reason was just hoping mirrorless offerings were just a temporary fad and would go away or they were resting on the success of their DSLR offerings, or some other reason, unknown to me, the fact is, they were caught completely off guard by how successful mirrorless body sales were changing the market. So, if they only finally did something about FF mirrorless offerings a year ago, primarily to stop brand defections, that is their fault. They certainly have had the know how, the resources and the qualified engineers for more than a year but failed to take advantage of them. During those years of debate, I would certainly have been thrilled to sit behind closed doors with any of the product development teams at Canon and just listened to the dialogue of verbal volleyball, justifying why they weren't ready to pursue mirrorless cameras, full frame or otherwise. Apparently, they were content to just read Sony's annual financial report, ignoring the resounding success of mirrorless camera sales and profits shown year after year, until they finally saw they were missing out, as DSLR sales continued to slide. Let me make it clear that I love my Canon gear but am most disappointed that I might have to wait a year or more for that Pro R body. In the meantime, it gives me great pleasure that you and others are most happy with your R's performance. Since I am spending my money on any new eqpt and not yours', I'll just wait, optimistically but with guarded anticipation.


My reading of Canon's mirrorless strategy is different than yours. I think that since before the first M was introduced, Canon has had a long term mirrorless strategy based on dual pixel technology and the next phase of the strategy will be cameras with new sensors and processing technology. Canon is being characteristically deliberate, but I doubt they have overlooked much of anything since before Sony started rapidly rolling out its string of wonder cameras, each one addressing the inadequacies of the one before. Canon may be the tortoise to Sony's hare, but over the year's Canon has shown itself a pretty clever turtle.


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## Ozarker (Jul 28, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> "Canon, Nikon and Panasonic are simply getting lapped by Sony in the mirrorless race." Sony a9ii being announced in little more than a month. Canon? The Powershot G7 X. I have to contain my excitement. Not really.


I forgot the fact that Canon, Nikon, and the rest are supposed to coordinate their camera releases by price point, features, and swimsuit competition results. Not really. Hmmmm.... when Canon releases the 1DX Mark III and RF equivalent next year, is Sony going to release the A9iii? Silly logic. It wasn't until a month ago that Sony even had anything over 400mm. Canon has had them for years and years and years. Were I a sports or birding guy, the A9 series would have not been much of a consideration until then.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 28, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> It wasn't until a month ago that Sony even had anything over 400mm.


Yeah, but now that they do, Canon is ******* because all the pros are switching to Sony.


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## Ozarker (Jul 28, 2019)

canonmike said:


> As the Canon flock tries to maintain their patience, it's wearing thin as they continue to take it on the chin from other Mfgs. mirrorless offerings. While we wait for Canon to pull a rabbit out of the hat, their competition has already given the market high res camera bodies with fast frame rates, eye controlled focus, IBIS, dual card slots and more. So, to hear that in a year or so, Canon will probably, almost surely, maybe sometime, perhaps eventually bring life to this long awaited pro body is hardly earth shattering news, nor does it excite the senses. I have yet to see any "real" prolonged enthusiasm in the sports and wildlife camp about any current Canon R offerings. Those that have gambled and bought an R body, make sure they bring along their second card slot, affectionately known as their 5D or 1Dx or even a 7D ii, conspicuously slung over the other shoulder, always at the ready. There are many willing to wait but any pro body offering better wow them with state of the art features in a body that hasn't been dumbed down or crippled with excuses. I, so hope this pro body plays out that way and we hear a collective "Wow!" when it finally makes its way to the marketplace. Knowing that Canon expects a 40% downtown in camera sales over the next yr or so has to make us wonder how they will manage to maintain enough enthusiasm and motivation to produce new offerings for a marketplace hungry for that next body but not necessarily willing to pay for it.


Yes. I feel beaten to a pulp by Canon. As a stills shooter, I couldn't care less about fast frame rates or video. Some do. I don't. The R was no gamble for me. The R has great eye EF (in my opinion), IBIS will be nice when it happens (but isn't an essential, for me). Do you really expect to see any "real" prolonged enthusiasm from the sports/wildlife camp for the current R offerings? I wouldn't think the current offerings are much of a consideration except for some of the birding wildlife crowd and many, many of them prefer a fast crop sensored camera. Upgrading a system takes $$$$. Switching takes $$$$. It's a pretty sure bet that those genuflecting before Sony and praying for an equivalent Canon are not stampeding to buy an A9 or A7rIII. How do I know this? Because Sony is losing market share. Sony will lose even more next year. Professional sports photographers are a very small piece of the market pie. Our local newspaper sports guy uses a 70D when he shoots the local high schools at their events. Yes, even at nigh football games. Yes, one card slot. To think that all professionals are participating in the fast camera, high resolution, dual card slot arms race is plain silly. So Canon is correct to appeal more to the realistic form and shape of the market as a whole, not the niche, when bringing a new system to the marketplace. In a contracting market, placing emphasis on volume sales is most important.



canonmike said:


> Knowing that Canon expects a 40% downtown in camera sales over the next yr or so has to make us wonder how they will manage to maintain enough enthusiasm and motivation to produce new offerings for a marketplace hungry for that next body but not necessarily willing to pay for it.



The market isn't as hungry as you think. It is in massive contraction. Why? I think there are several reasons. One of those reasons being that what is already available (and has already been purchased) satisfies most in the ILC owner market. People don't tend to upgrade when they are already happy. Owners are saturated and see little reason to spend thousands of dollars on something new from any company, including Sony. The pool of most consumers on this forum are not typical in any way, shape, or form.

Sony could release a 500 fps, 200 mega pixel camera next year. The market for that? Infinitesimal. Many of the complainers here do not understand that in the disastrous contraction of the ILC market, the surviving companies must appeal to the maximum number of remaining consumers. Neither the 1DX II, the coming 1DX III, or the A9, or A7r III, or high resolution offerings do that. Just like 600mm and 800mm lenses don't. In fact, none of Sony's current offerings or anything from Canon 6D and above do it, hence the M. Sony offers nothing in that category, so they are losing market share. In my opinion, 30MPIX is high resolution anyway. 10 years ago, it was unheard of. Most people don't want, or have, the equipment required to handle or store gigantic files. Buying in to the high end means buying in to more than cameras and lenses, which are already huge financial obstacles or deterents to most, on their own.

I did find a Sony spec sheet once. The pages were stuck together like a 16 year old boy's first Playboy. Like most of us, the girlfriend or wife he got later didn't come close to comparing to what he , in reality, could get. (joke)

* Everyone, please forgive my punctuation. Having trouble remembering sometimes.


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## Del Paso (Jul 28, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Yeah, but now that they do, Canon is ******* because all the pros are switching to Sony.


Wrong!!!!
Everybody, yes, absolutely everybody is switching to Sony.
Except me...


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## tpatana (Jul 28, 2019)

sdz said:


> What we may see in FF bodies in 2020:
> 
> 1D X III and a RX equivalent
> R 70 MP
> ...



Damn, I already have too many expenses in near future, and this is not helping. Will be probably buying at least 1DX3. But if the R-lineup finally catches up to other brand mirrorless FF performance, might need to consider any of the R bodies, RX, R70 or R30. If that happens, then probably also the 28-70F2 and maybe R50/1.2.


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## sdz (Jul 29, 2019)

tpatana said:


> Damn, I already have too many expenses in near future, and this is not helping. Will be probably buying at least 1DX3. But if the R-lineup finally catches up to other brand mirrorless FF performance, might need to consider any of the R bodies, RX, R70 or R30. If that happens, then probably also the 28-70F2 and maybe R50/1.2.



I like the R. I'll save my pennies for thr R high MP camera. I don't need it. But, then again, I didn't need the R.


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## Pape (Jul 29, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Sony could release a 500 fps, 200 mega pixel camera next year. The market for that? Infinitesimal.


if canon makes 300 Euro 200mpixel 500fps R camera i bet there is lot of market for that  millions peoples would buy . but not much market for 4k camera like that yep


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## tpatana (Jul 29, 2019)

sdz said:


> I like the R. I'll save my pennies for thr R high MP camera. I don't need it. But, then again, I didn't need the R.



I'm sure it's good camera, but it's not what it could have been. Some reason Canon didn't make R a desirable camera for my shooting needs, so R was easy skip for me. The RF lens line-up looks great though, although pricey.

I'm hoping RX will be very close the 1DX for the size. I need something I can comfortably hand-hold for all day with 70-200 on it. I'm not convinced on the small bodies yet, for most of my shooting. Although for vacation camera some SL1 or M5 size R-series would be great, add RF 28-70 on it and you don't need to carry too much.


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## 12Broncos (Jul 29, 2019)

canonmike said:


> Appreciate your input. First, let me make it clear that I have been a Canon user since 1987 and I don't own any Fujicisony wonderba camera gear. That being said, I do judge the R system based on "these two bodies", as you refer to them, because that's all they have, currently. I'm not saying they are not good cameras but they don't fit my needs and they don't work for me. Also, it is not my fault that Canon, almost completely ignored the mirrorless threat, primarily from Sony, for a long long time. Whether the reason was just hoping mirrorless offerings were just a temporary fad and would go away or they were resting on the success of their DSLR offerings, or some other reason, unknown to me, the fact is, they were caught completely off guard by how successful mirrorless body sales were changing the market. So, if they only finally did something about FF mirrorless offerings a year ago, primarily to stop brand defections, that is their fault. They certainly have had the know how, the resources and the qualified engineers for more than a year but failed to take advantage of them. During those years of debate, I would certainly have been thrilled to sit behind closed doors with any of the product development teams at Canon and just listened to the dialogue of verbal volleyball, justifying why they weren't ready to pursue mirrorless cameras, full frame or otherwise. Apparently, they were content to just read Sony's annual financial report, ignoring the resounding success of mirrorless camera sales and profits shown year after year, until they finally saw they were missing out, as DSLR sales continued to slide. Let me make it clear that I love my Canon gear but am most disappointed that I might have to wait a year or more for that Pro R body. In the meantime, it gives me great pleasure that you and others are most happy with your R's performance. Since I am spending my money on any new eqpt and not yours', I'll just wait, optimistically but with guarded anticipation.


Wow! This sums it up to a T. Couldn't agree more.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2019)

If a news site were to see this, the news nugget that would make the headline is this: "Primary Rumor Site Regarding Canon Unsure Pro Body Coming Before 2021". Given that the average Canon Rumors rumor gets launch dates wrong by estimating things will happen much too early, this is clearly the notable bit.

It is evidence that either Canon is quite far behind or that at least its communications have been adequately muddy that Canon gear heads will be tempted to run a secondary system. I say this as a happy A9 owner who is contemplating selling my 1DX2 and 500mm II (which doesn't autofocus as well as the Sony, since the A9's 5.0 firmware upgrade) in favor of a FE 600mm, which would push the center of gravity of my gear over to Sony. 

With stories like these, I figure I can always buy back into Canon in 2021 or 2022 when we finally see what's on offer. I suspect that Canon will pull some rabbit out of a hat, but in the meantime will enjoy eye-AF tracking at 20 yards; autofocusing on distant birds below the tree line; and 61 megapixels at 10 frames per second while I wait. Wish instead I could use that new RF glass on something other than a mirrorless 5D4 hobbled to 3 fps with AF-C.


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## unfocused (Jul 29, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> If a news site were to see this, the news nugget that would make the headline is this: "Primary Rumor Site Regarding Canon Unsure Pro Body Coming Before 2021". Given that the average Canon Rumors rumor gets launch dates wrong by estimating things will happen much too early, this is clearly the notable bit.
> 
> It is evidence that either Canon is quite far behind or that at least its communications have been adequately muddy that Canon gear heads will be tempted to run a secondary system. I say this as a happy A9 owner who is contemplating selling my 1DX2 and 500mm II (which doesn't autofocus as well as the Sony, since the A9's 5.0 firmware upgrade) in favor of a FE 600mm, which would push the center of gravity of my gear over to Sony.
> 
> With stories like these, I figure I can always buy back into Canon in 2021 or 2022 when we finally see what's on offer. I suspect that Canon will pull some rabbit out of a hat, but in the meantime will enjoy eye-AF tracking at 20 yards; autofocusing on distant birds below the tree line; and 61 megapixels at 10 frames per second while I wait. Wish instead I could use that new RF glass on something other than a mirrorless 5D4 hobbled to 3 fps with AF-C.


Please, let us know when you list the 500 II as there are many happy Canon users here that might give you a few hundred for such obsolete gear.


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## scyrene (Jul 29, 2019)

max_sr said:


> PS: I also don't get the obsession with market share. As if a bigger market share means that the products by that company are better. They are cheaper. That's it mostly. That's why more burgers are sold than lobsters, and more Honda Civics than Mercedes S-Class cars. Is Market share really the only thing Canon fans can be proud about? Oh, and of course: colour science. Anyway, I'm out _using_ my 7DII. Bye.



You're not the first person to make this mistake but let me spell it out clearly: nobody here (that I've seen) is saying they're _proud_ because of Canon's market share. It's brought up regularly because people - usually new accounts - pop up all the time saying 'if Canon doesn't do X (usually release a direct competitor with their rivals' latest cameras, or the camera that particular person wants), then Sony/Nikon/etc will topple them', and it's like - no, people have been saying this for years and it hasn't happened. Canon's strategy may often perplex, but it clearly works for them. Market figures are a reminder of reality - that for whatever reason, sales don't follow these forum trends (for higher DR/4K/whatever the latest obsession is). And in the end, sales are what keeps them afloat.


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## koenkooi (Jul 30, 2019)

scyrene said:


> You're not the first person to make this mistake but let me spell it out clearly: nobody here (that I've seen) is saying they're _proud_ because of Canon's market share. It's brought up regularly because people - usually new accounts - pop up all the time saying 'if Canon doesn't do X (usually release a direct competitor with their rivals' latest cameras, or the camera that particular person wants), then Sony/Nikon/etc will topple them', and it's like - no, people have been saying this for years and it hasn't happened. Canon's strategy may often perplex, but it clearly works for them. Market figures are a reminder of reality - that for whatever reason, sales don't follow these forum trends (for higher DR/4K/whatever the latest obsession is). And in the end, sales are what keeps them afloat.



While I agree with what you are saying, I must add a "past performance is no guarantee of future results".


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## scyrene (Jul 30, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> While I agree with what you are saying, I must add a "past performance is no guarantee of future results".



That's always true but as a standalone phrase pretty useless and potentially misleading. Past performance is no _guarantee_ of future results but it can be a good indicator of the future nonetheless. Clearly businesses of any size can fail, and naysayers love to bring up Blackberry, Nokia, and Kodak (however flawed it is to even describe them as 'failures') as analogies. But if a company has maintained or even improved its position in a market year on year for a decade and a half - despite numerous shocks and changes to the landscape, competitors bringing out exciting products, etc - then I think it can be said that the approach they have taken is successful. Nothing lasts forever, but people have been claiming Sony (especially) are about to eat Canon's lunch for years and years - and it hasn't happened. What those people need to explain is, why now? Why this new Sony body?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 30, 2019)

scyrene said:


> Nothing lasts forever, but people have been claiming Sony (especially) are about to eat Canon's lunch for years and years - and it hasn't happened. What those people need to explain is, why now? Why this new Sony body?


5 years ago I coined YAPODFC. 

Canon is still here...and still the ILC market leader.


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## 3kramd5 (Jul 30, 2019)

scyrene said:


> What those people need to explain is, why now? Why this new Sony body?



Because it’s the new Sony body. Even better it’s one without any iota of known potential so it’s the perfect boogiecam, but that’s really secondary.


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## Mikehit (Aug 3, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> Because it’s the new Sony body. Even better it’s one without any iota of known potential so it’s the perfect boogiecam, but that’s really secondary.



And don't forget that Sony is the market-leader in performance-clarification footnotes.


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## slclick (Aug 3, 2019)

I'd get a Sony if they would wrap it in shock proof yellow plastic


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## 4olipetit (Aug 7, 2019)

Je pense qu'il est nécessaire d'intégrer la 2ème carte SD dans la poignée afin de ne pas augmenter le prix du futur Eos r et sa dimension alors n'hésitez pas à la possibilité d'ajouter cette option


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## slclick (Aug 8, 2019)

4olipetit said:


> Je pense qu'il est nécessaire d'intégrer la 2ème carte SD dans la poignée afin de ne pas augmenter le prix du futur Eos r et sa dimension alors n'hésitez pas à la possibilité d'ajouter cette option


I think many folks would think the grip would be better suited for a battery hence the size. Both?


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## Jerryrigged (Aug 14, 2019)

syder said:


> Sorry, but no.
> 
> The R does not shoot raw video. It shoots 8 bit 4:2:0.
> 
> ...



For about the same price as a 5D4, you can get an EOS R plus an Atomos Ninja V. That gives you your 10-bit 4:2:2, and waveform monitors. However, the 1080p out of the EOS R and 5D4 look so good, I don't really have to shoot in 4K except for the flexibility in post. Full frame 4K would be nice, but with a range of fast primes, and good zooms, I can get about any field of view I want. Oh, and with a 1TB SSD costing just over $100, I can record for a pretty long time!


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## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Aug 14, 2019)

stevelee said:


> I've been traveling around in Maine in September, when I'd see signboards outside of restaurants along the way. They offered two whole lobsters for some ridiculously small price, by my perception at the time. That may have been the trip when I had lobster in some form at every meal in Maine, including the McLobster sandwich at McDonald's in Freeport.
> 
> I'm used to lobsters being somewhat expensive, largely because of shipping costs. They used to keep a few live ones in tanks at the grocery stores around here, but I haven't noticed them lately.


Lobsters used to be fed to prisoners for multiple meals a day in colonial New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Maine(part of Massachusetts then) because they were so plentiful and relatively easy to harvest. Dunno about butter tho.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 14, 2019)

The


Boyer U. Klum-Cey said:


> Lobsters used to be fed to prisoners for multiple meals a day in colonial New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Maine(part of Massachusetts then) because they were so plentiful and relatively easy to harvest. Dunno about butter tho.


There was a law passed back in the 1800’s where I used to live that you could only feed slaves lobster a maximum of three days a week instead of everyday, because it was so plentiful and cheap to harvest. It wasn’t because of any kind of benevolent thought either, the driving force was uncontrollable unrest amongst the slaves demanding a more varied diet! 

I worry about humankind sometimes so I come here to hear how Canon is ******* and Sony is king of everything.


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## syder (Aug 14, 2019)

Jerryrigged said:


> For about the same price as a 5D4, you can get an EOS R plus an Atomos Ninja V. That gives you your 10-bit 4:2:2, and waveform monitors. However, the 1080p out of the EOS R and 5D4 look so good, I don't really have to shoot in 4K except for the flexibility in post. Full frame 4K would be nice, but with a range of fast primes, and good zooms, I can get about any field of view I want. Oh, and with a 1TB SSD costing just over $100, I can record for a pretty long time!



Sure, but compressed 1080p is not very similar to 4k raw.

Your response to my post about apples is about carrots, which might be what you like, but please don't confuse the two.


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## Phil Indeblanc (Aug 20, 2019)

With all this said for work horse tool use....(Not sure about the A9)
Sony A7RII has been sent to repair of USB port, SD card slot, and sloppy lens mount already. This was about $900 in repair.
The lens mount still often doesn't read the electronics, and when the camera bugs out, I have to shut down and reboot for it to recognize the right settings, which I need to do also with a flash trigger on the hot shoe. Then you have the menu system....
So, maybe this is why a lot of us are just holding out on a new Canon 5D series equal. I sure am, yes with more mpixels, yes with AA OPTIONAL sensor. Without that, I am afraid I am back on a new Sony. In Studio, and where these pixels will count, we simply need the AA off. I would be fine with a 40mpixel and then a proper pixelshift option I can check focus of once captured.

Now I have babied that Sony camera, and I have no idea how those things I mention above managed to not work. On the other hand I have abused my 5DMII(for many years now), and my 5DMIII(for a number of years) with neither of them needing anything(Admit, I hated the Er codes I would get on the 5DM2 at one point, which are gone).... I did manage to drop my 5DM2 in a river. I sent it to Canon, and within days I had a perfectly functioning camera under $500 in repair of a main board, etc.

So if Canon can deliver such on a Eos or R...I would go for it, but those are deal breakers. It maybe that I just stick to the 5DM3 for events, and another Sony for a hybrid studio/Event camera.


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## Kit. (Oct 3, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> Once the Sony a9ii is in the hands of photographers, and Canon is still finding itself, Sony will be first in market share.


...bump?


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## JohnC (Oct 3, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Patience.



exactly


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## Ozarker (Oct 3, 2019)

Kit. said:


> ...bump?


I've snipped it so it can be recycled next year. #savingmotherearth


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