# B&W Process



## distant.star (Aug 6, 2014)

.
Okay, I'll start with a question.

What provides the best results for B&W processing?

Doing it in LR is straightforward and gives adequate results.

I've never been able to get what I wanted out of Silver Efex Pro, and I don't know why. It seems by far the most sophisticated.

Lastly, I've recently tried Color Efex Pro B&W conversion. So, far this is giving me the best results. It seems more straightforward than Silver Efex and the effects are more obvious.

So, that's my experience so far.


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## Canon1 (Aug 6, 2014)

I really like silver efex pro. Admittedly I rarely do custom stuff, the presets are really great and I usually find one that just works perfectly with the image I'm converting. Occasionally i will adjust the sliders a little, but most of the time I "try on" the presets until I find the one that "fits".


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## climber (Aug 6, 2014)

I will give you an example of B&W post processing in the link below. Before B&W conversion, author here first adjusted luminosity contrast and colour contrast. He was using quite complicated approach, so if you are not familiar with photoshop, this could be too complicated. But the point is, to achieve the best luminosity and colour contrast before making B&W image.

Here is the tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKhBPT724No&feature=youtu.be


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## mackguyver (Aug 8, 2014)

I spent years doing B&W conversions using the various incarnations of PhotoShop's tools for this, starting with conversions in the LAB color space before they added the convert to B&W stuff. PS wasn't always so sophisticated  

These days, I have lots of tools including Nik Silver Efex Pro, which I have had limited success with as well. My favorite tool in recent years is DxO Filmpack. I find that many of the profiles get me the look I'm wanting, or do with some minor tweaking. The chemists with Agfa, Fuji, Ilford, and Kodak spent many years coming up with those looks so I think there's something to them.


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## distant.star (Aug 8, 2014)

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Thanks for the good words on DxO Filmpacks. I've had other people say it works well.

Do they ever lower their price for sales or such?

Also, how might you think it compares to Nik Analog Efex? I've played a little bit with this, but not B&W.


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## mackguyver (Aug 8, 2014)

distant.star said:


> .
> Thanks for the good words on DxO Filmpacks. I've had other people say it works well.
> 
> Do they ever lower their price for sales or such?
> ...


Yes, they have sales fairly frequently, but I think the most recent one ended on 7/31. Sorry, but there should be another along soon, probably around Photokina time, if they follow patterns of the past. I think the profiles are quite a bit better than Nik's based on how they create them and the interface is a lot easier to use. You can download a free trial and play around with it.


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## zim (Aug 8, 2014)

you can get filmpack 3 essential for free, not the full package but still good

https://www.dxo.com/intl/sony


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## mackguyver (Aug 8, 2014)

zim said:


> you can get filmpack 3 essential for free, not the full package but still good
> 
> https://www.dxo.com/intl/sony


I didn't realize they were still giving that away - thanks for sharing that for everyone else!


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## anthonyd (Aug 8, 2014)

If you are not afraid to experiment a bit, and/or you have a limited budget, let me recommend "Gimp". It is open source software that aims to provide Photoshop like functionality. Photoshop lovers hate it, but I won't enter that religious war, it does what it does.
Anyway, it offers you a channel mixer option, where you can create a B&W image from a single RGB channel, or any custom combination of channels you want (i.e. 80% R + 15% G + 5% B). You can even use negative values, which in some cases it makes sense (e.g., negative blue if you want to darken that bright purple shirt that your model was wearing without affecting the skin tone).

If you go down this route, you might also want to install the "g'mic" plugin and play with its channel mixer. That one allows you to mix in different colorspaces (CMYK, HSV, Lab, RGB and YCbCr).

Happy hacking.


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## lintoni (Aug 8, 2014)

zim said:


> you can get filmpack 3 essential for free, not the full package but still good
> 
> https://www.dxo.com/intl/sony


Excellent! Thanks for the link!


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## lintoni (Aug 8, 2014)

anthonyd said:


> If you are not afraid to experiment a bit, and/or you have a limited budget, let me recommend "Gimp". It is open source software that aims to provide Photoshop like functionality. Photoshop lovers hate it, but I won't enter that religious war, it does what it does.
> Anyway, it offers you a channel mixer option, where you can create a B&W image from a single RGB channel, or any custom combination of channels you want (i.e. 80% R + 15% G + 5% B). You can even use negative values, which in some cases it makes sense (e.g., negative blue if you want to darken that bright purple shirt that your model was wearing without affecting the skin tone).
> 
> If you go down this route, you might also want to install the "g'mic" plugin and play with its channel mixer. That one allows you to mix in different colorspaces (CMYK, HSV, Lab, RGB and YCbCr).
> ...


G'MIC plugin also includes various film emulation filters, including some b+w.

Some more on that at the link:

http://blog.patdavid.net/2013/08/film-emulation-presets-in-gmic-gimp.html


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## distant.star (Aug 8, 2014)

.
Interesting, I never thought about Gimp. It was the first program I used for photos, and I still use it today for some things. I'll have to explore the B&W possibilities.




anthonyd said:


> If you are not afraid to experiment a bit, and/or you have a limited budget, let me recommend "Gimp". It is open source software that aims to provide Photoshop like functionality. Photoshop lovers hate it, but I won't enter that religious war, it does what it does.
> Anyway, it offers you a channel mixer option, where you can create a B&W image from a single RGB channel, or any custom combination of channels you want (i.e. 80% R + 15% G + 5% B). You can even use negative values, which in some cases it makes sense (e.g., negative blue if you want to darken that bright purple shirt that your model was wearing without affecting the skin tone).
> 
> If you go down this route, you might also want to install the "g'mic" plugin and play with its channel mixer. That one allows you to mix in different colorspaces (CMYK, HSV, Lab, RGB and YCbCr).
> ...


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## DominoDude (Aug 9, 2014)

zim said:


> you can get filmpack 3 essential for free, not the full package but still good
> 
> https://www.dxo.com/intl/sony



Thanks for that tip, zim! Might check that one out.


I don't have that much of a process myself; one day I feel the need to create ultra-contrasty, moody B/W's, other days they end up hazy, with low contrast and overexposed. And I'm never smart enough to write down what I did and how I was thinking (if at all).
For future experiments, not specifically in B/W, I've started to look for other SW - Gimp has been mentioned, but to that I can add DarkTable (www.darktable.org), and Photivo (photivo.org). Perhaps it can give some of you ideas for new or better ways to process B/W.


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## stephan00 (Aug 9, 2014)

According the the site which comes up after getting the free version of FilmPack 3, they do have an ongoing sale of version 4 until August 15th:

essential 49 (instead of 79)
expert 99 (129)

So still a few days to tinker around with version 3 to see whether you like it


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## ray5 (Sep 3, 2014)

I'll probably wait for a sale and pick one up as well. I love B&W but not happy with what I have been able to do. Whenever I do something I compare it to Adam's Yosemite pictures......


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## mackguyver (Sep 3, 2014)

ray5 said:


> I'll probably wait for a sale and pick one up as well. I love B&W but not happy with what I have been able to do. Whenever I do something I compare it to Adam's Yosemite pictures......


Ouch, that's a harsh thing to do to yourself! I love his work, too, and my wife bought me a couple of his books last year for my birthday. I was fooling around with DxO Filmpack over the weekend again and forgot to mention something else and this applies to DxO, PS, & I think Nik (though I haven't used it in a while) - be sure to play with the filters, particularly the yellow and red filters as they have dramatic effects on the sky and vegetation. My process is generally to find a film profile I like and then play with the filters until I get close to the look I want. Then I play with the various color sliders and the contrast tools until I dial in the final look.


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## jwilbern (Sep 3, 2014)

I like both Perfect B+W (part of Perfect Photo suite) and DxO FilmPak. They both have lots of presets, along with color filters and level adjustments to fine tune the image to your taste. This a photo that I edited in Perfect B+W. I used the oxymoronic preset "Modern Vintage."


Corner Stone by jwilbern, on Flickr


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## ray5 (Sep 3, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> ray5 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll probably wait for a sale and pick one up as well. I love B&W but not happy with what I have been able to do. Whenever I do something I compare it to Adam's Yosemite pictures......
> ...


I agree. But growing up with his images have left a permanent impression.Here is a few I took in PAris earlier this year. I like them but don't see the contrast that I like.
Let me know what you think.
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21550.0;attach=52765;image
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21550.0;attach=52766;image


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## ray5 (Sep 3, 2014)

Also,
DXO FilmPack 4 Expert Edition Image Processing Software is $99 in B&H. Worth it or should I wait for a sale?


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## mackguyver (Sep 3, 2014)

ray5 said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > ray5 said:
> ...


Ray, they look great to me! I see you overcame the digital-age fear of going to pure black that Ansel was known for, too! Have you seen his photos of Berkley University and other architecture? That might give you a better idea of his look.

On the other hand, they say that when you copy someone great, you just end up being a poor version of them. Maybe you're better off finding your own style 

Also, that's a good price on the Expert edition of FilmPack, but I'm pretty sure DxO has sales during Photokina as well. Their last sale ended in June, so they are due for another sale, anyways. I can't say if the price will be any better than B&H's though. I went through my emails to check the sale prices, but the last several sales have had special pricing for existing customers so I'm not sure what the normal sale price was (it wasn't in the email).


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## ray5 (Sep 3, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> ray5 said:
> 
> 
> > mackguyver said:
> ...


You are right. I tend to be too harsh on myself. DOn't know what I am looking for. I like them initially and then start finding things that I should have done better. That's one of the reason I never really invested the time in post processing as I feel I have so much to learn and should get it right in camera. But recently I saw what Photoshop can do and am in awe and investing some time to learn. Though I do have a dilemma, I have seen how an average picture is transformed in PS into something amazing. I don't know if I should credit the photographer for the vision or the guy who did the post(usually the photographer) for the skills behind the computer. 

I'll wait till Photokina for any sale. If you come across one please let me know. Thanks again


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## distant.star (Sep 4, 2014)

.
Better. Seems the more I work with the Silver Efex the better I do. This one took many, many control points to change different areas. Never did manage to cover up the blown out part of his forehead. But the B & W is still superior to the color version.


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