# Hello Windows 10



## Joe M (Oct 3, 2014)

Yes, we usually talk about photo manipulation software here but before we can use that, we need the O/S software. Some use ms, some use apple. I happen to be using ms myself. Well, not that it's too relevant to photography right now, but it seems ms may be going straight from "8" to "10". Maybe someone out there knows why. I'm not sure it matters though. What I did find interesting (I'm still resisting and using 7 myself), is that a clip I listened to on the BBC had a hint of "Adobe-like" pricing. The presenter mentioned that there was no talk of pricing (for "10") as yet but that there are hints that they may be providing the O/S as a "service". I guess they're finding that it's working well for "office" and may as well make extra cash renting out the O/S too. All rumours right now but I would like to thank Adobe for opening a nice can of "rent me". The thing I can't figure (if this all turns out to be true which I'm not sure will be the case) is why? It's not like the O/S costs much. It's about the price of Lightroom. "Renting" software that costs $thousands like PS makes more sense than renting software that costs barely over $100.


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## 278204 (Oct 4, 2014)

Yup. I've heard (word of mouth only) that win10 would be "the last windows ever", which basically means subscription service vs 1-off payment (as if it won't change ever ever for the next 100 years).

At home I'm on Linux, which I can only define as " interesting" ;-)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 4, 2014)

I'd doubt the subscription service rumors. Do you really think Dell or HP would go for that? I wouldn't either.


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## wtlloyd (Oct 4, 2014)

I've read the reason is that many 3rd party apps call "if win 9 (5 or 98) then...

Here, now that I'm off my phone - 

http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2hwlrk/new_windows_version_will_be_called_windows_10/ckwq83x

yeah, it's reddit - you got a problem with that, buddy?


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## Valvebounce (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi Joe. 
I can report that I have bought outright the right to use windows OS for each version I have installed, however I will not rent an OS so dabbling with Linux will most likely change to using Linux if I can run what software I need on it!
I can imagine that a good many home users may do the same too, good luck with that business model MS. Renting office to me didn't work, Open Office, now Libre Office, taking Outlook Express away, Firebird, never liked internet exploiter so been using Firefox for years, hey it's almost a Linux box already, does DxO run on Linux? ;D

Cheers, Graham.


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## lintoni (Oct 4, 2014)

This seems like a good opportunity to mention that I _loathe_ Windows 8.1.

I had actually managed to keep away from Windows for years, and it was only with making the leap from film to digital a couple of years ago, that made me buy a Windows laptop - early 5D3 user, and there were no OS tools that could handle the raws from my new toy on my Linux PC. crApple was not option for me. The Linux box actually died a couple of weeks ago, something serious - possibly a PSU problem, possibly not... 

Anyway, I don't know about getting DxO to run on Linux, I could never get Lightroom working with WINE...

I think I'll finish this post by reiterating that I _loathe_ Windows 8.1.


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## DominoDude (Oct 4, 2014)

Just keeping the directly agreeable parts of your post.

I've also managed to stay away from 8.*, and won't even upgrade to a new machine until I find one that I can run Win 7 on and then add VMplayer or something to run a number of virtual Linux-boxes in. I could even go the other way round, and get me a Linux-flavour and run the virtual machines on that to get me any usable version of Windows.
What I've seen about the direction they're taking Windows 10 in, it sure looks like it will be a lot more usable than the 8. But it could be wise to start learning another OS, so that one doesn't have to work with future Windows variants that behave like Vista and 8.*.



lintoni said:


> This seems like a good opportunity to mention that *I loathe Windows 8.1*.
> ...
> I think I'll finish this post by reiterating that *I loathe Windows 8.1*.


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## lintoni (Oct 4, 2014)

To be fair installing Classic Shell means that you can negate most of the worst things about Windows 8*. It's still not perfect, and why you have to install add-ons that basic to make things work... I think the people at Redmond just assumed that everybody loves looking at a screen through a sheen of greasy fingerprints...


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## drjlo (Oct 4, 2014)

lintoni said:


> To be fair installing Classic Shell means that you can negate most of the worst things about Windows 8*.



I detested Win 8 until installing Classic Shell. Now I don't mind buying computers with Win 8 at all.
However, if MS goes to subscription model, I'm outta there 8)


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## benperrin (Oct 4, 2014)

I really don't get the hate for windows 8. Once you understand how to use it it's way faster and better than previous windows systems. Windows 10 looks crap so far to me though. That combined metro/start menu looks horrid. Did a 2 year old design it for them? So far they haven't announced one feature that was interesting. If they decide to go with a subscription model then I'm gone. It's completely different for software worth many thousands of dollars to go that route. It made adobe products accessible to me and I've loved creative cloud so far. I won't touch office 365 either. I can't believe how many people don't realise how bad of a deal they are getting with that software.


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## LJ3Jim (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm a software engineer who has been programming for Microsoft operating systems since DOS 2.11. I never worked for Microsoft, so I don't have that perspective. That said, I don't like Windows 8. I've made my peace with it once I got a 2-in-1 machine (Lenovo Yoga).

I was intrigued by Windows 10, so I downloaded the preview and installed it. The new start menu is pretty good. When you launch a "modern" app (now called Universal apps), it runs in a window on your desktop. I like that very much. When you're running in desktop mode, you don't get kicked into the modern UI anymore.

Windows 10 has added multiple desktops (it's about time!). They are easy to get to via an enhanced taskbar.

I do not know if Microsoft is headed towards a subscription model for Windows 10, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an option. I do have an Office 365 subscription. It's $99/year, and allows me to install on up to 5 computers. It also includes a terabyte of OneDrive space for each computer. That's a bargain, in my opinion.

If Windows 10 were a subscription for $99/year on up to 5 machines, I'd go for that in a minute. However, if it were $99/year per computer, that's definitely too much. We'll see what MS does.

Bottom line - I really don't like Windows 8, but I'm cautiously optimistic about Windows 10 after running it for a couple of days.

Regards, Jim


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## 278204 (Oct 17, 2014)

Surely UFRaw or RawTherapee can handle 5D3 files, no? The big downside in Linux is the lack of 16-bit final stage editing. GIMP is nearly there though.

Win8 may be bad (depends, some people love it, haven't used it myself yet, though I'll have it at work soon) but I definitely was not impressed with Ubuntu's Unity. In the end they are just tools though. All I really ask of my OS is to be a relatively secure, stable, efficient and versatile app container with a useable window interface.



lintoni said:


> early 5D3 user, and there were no OS tools that could handle the raws from my new toy on my Linux PC.
> 
> I think I'll finish this post by reiterating that I _loathe_ Windows 8.1.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 17, 2014)

sposh said:


> Yup. I've heard (word of mouth only) that win10 would be "the last windows ever", which basically means subscription service vs 1-off payment (as if it won't change ever ever for the next 100 years).
> 
> At home I'm on Linux, which I can only define as " interesting" ;-)



Sounds like it's more time than ever to bring back AmigaOS.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 17, 2014)

lintoni said:


> To be fair installing Classic Shell means that you can negate most of the worst things about Windows 8*. It's still not perfect, and why you have to install add-ons that basic to make things work... I think the people at Redmond just assumed that everybody loves looking at a screen through a sheen of greasy fingerprints...



yeah, it was truly absurd. Holding you arm out all day long to a 24" or even 32" screen, high quality photo screening and just smearing it up, or more likely a low quality garbage screen since I don't know that they make consumer level touch screens with good quality.

not to mention that a mouse is simply better for a lot of stuff anyway


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## Marsu42 (Oct 17, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'd doubt the subscription service rumors. Do you really think Dell or HP would go for that? I wouldn't either.



"Last Windows ever" (if they really said that and meant it) would not only relate to the payment method, but to the upgrade policy. Microsoft has went away from releasing big service packs more and more, and with windows 8.1 they started experimenting with a rolling release scheme with frequent feature updates.

And what's so different between a long-term subscription payment (maybe 3 years with your new pc) and buying a Windows version that is phased out in the same timeframe? Answer: No difference, it's just an increase in the version number that doesn't say anything about the content. 

"End of subscription" doesn't necessarily mean the product self-destructs or becomes unusable like with Adobe CC, with a lot of other software products it just means the end of updates and support - you can continue using it anyway.


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## tolusina (Oct 17, 2014)

sposh said:


> Surely UFRaw or RawTherapee can handle 5D3 files, no? The big downside in Linux is the lack of 16-bit final stage editing. GIMP is nearly there though....


Really GIMP, hurry up already, would ya please? I use GIMP on WIN, 16 bit GIMP might finally get me to the Linux camp. 
On WIN, UFRaw has always left me wanting, RawTherapee looks excellent in comparison though I do need to spend more time with it, just found it recently.


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## mjbehnke (Oct 17, 2014)

Atleast they brought the start button back. I've been playing with it for awhile now and it's not as bad as I thought it was gonna be. Have not tried installing any photo software on it yet, as it's on a couple work computers, but I plan to try it this weekend to see if it runs and how well it runs.


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## quod (Oct 18, 2014)

Joe M said:


> The presenter mentioned that there was no talk of pricing (for "10") as yet but that there are hints that they may be providing the O/S as a "service". I guess they're finding that it's working well for "office" and may as well make extra cash renting out the O/S too...


I interviewed for a product manager job with them in the early 2000's and I vividly remember their probing me about "software as a service." It appeared to me that they did not know what the term meant. At the time, Autodesk was the only software company that shifted from big releases to a service model in order to smooth their earnings. I think Microsoft is still trying to figure out how to stay relevant in a new tech world that has largely progressed beyond them.


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## Joe M (Oct 18, 2014)

Well, I hardly think that MS will rent out the O/S though I'm sure that they would love to do so. I don't want to give away my age, but anyone remember the 80's and the gym scandals? Remember those "lifetime memberships" that were popping up at so many gyms and then they all went belly-up because there was no new revenue? They actually passed laws against selling them. 
Well, the thing about the O/S is that I wouldn't think many people buy it today and use it for life like a lifetime gym membership. Either your computer will die and you'll buy a new one (unless you build your own and have a license you'll use for the new build) or you're like me and will have to update the O/S because the programs (sorry, apps is the new term), will not run on the older one. Or the new one significantly improves upon the old (2gig memory, 32 bit) vs. the new 64 bit and all the memory you can afford. So people will upgrade, some skipping a version if convenient (like PS) and some not and some upgrading cause they have to because of new computer purchases. I don't think the rental model is needed to stay profitable but that never stopped anyone from trying. 
In any case, they blew it with Win8. They should have made it look and act like 7 by default, then become all touchy feely pad and phone-like by option. The images I've seen of "10" look worse by actually combining certain elements of the desktop with the phone look. I don't get MS some times. I guess I'm in the minority but I want my O/S to be stable, quick and as non-flashy as possible. It's a host for the programs that I use. It's not the be-all and end-all. Host my programs and file my stuff without the ugly tiles and realize that unless you've got a pad or phone, you're likely to still use a mouse which was predicted to be obsolete my now but isn't. 
I'm not looking forward to the day when programs I use and depend upon will come with the prerequisite "works with win8 and up...". Upgrading I'll have to go whether I like it or not.


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## lintoni (Oct 18, 2014)

tolusina said:


> sposh said:
> 
> 
> > Surely UFRaw or RawTherapee can handle 5D3 files, no? The big downside in Linux is the lack of 16-bit final stage editing. GIMP is nearly there though....
> ...


16 bit GIMP is available, but only in development versions. You can try builds for Windows and Mac OSX from here:

http://partha.com/


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## lintoni (Oct 18, 2014)

sposh said:


> Surely UFRaw or RawTherapee can handle 5D3 files, no? The big downside in Linux is the lack of 16-bit final stage editing. GIMP is nearly there though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, but not when I first got the 5D3.


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## IMG_0001 (Oct 18, 2014)

For the last few Years up until this spring, I've been usign Linux quite a bit for my work and play. I'll be back to a dual boot machine soon but I've just not had the time to set things up since I had to replace my computer. I'm a big fan of open source and absolutely hate the implications of the cloud based solutions for storage and software licensing. The cloud is conceptually interesting, but philosophically has so many pitfalls. But I'm drifting off topic here.

Now, back to our business, although I tried ufraw, rawtherapy and darktable and initially liked them, I still find LR too lead the pack by a fair margin. So I do most of my editing under windows. However, if both windows and the editing software go the cloud way, be assured that I will stay firmly rooted to the ground and happily back to Linux.

By the way, just before my former computer crashed, I was about to try digikam and showfoto on linux. I did not get to try it much but it appeared to be pretty feature rich. I had particularly been impressed with the distortion correction tool. Anybody tried it for real and has any comments to give?

Thanks


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## jrista (Oct 18, 2014)

Personally, I'm a big fan of Windows 8. I have never understood why people complain about it so much. Compared to Vista (which it is often compared), Windows 8 is a whole different class. Several classes different, even. Microsoft may have made a mistake removing the start menu so suddenly, but the start screen is not as bad as people make it out to be. It's actually kind of nice to hit a key, and have a bunch of useful information like weather, sports, news, stocks, latest emails (from multiple accounts) etc. all right in front of you (and then simply hit a key again to make it disappear.) 


I've had a pretty seamless experience using both metro and classic apps on all my Windows 8 systems, including the desktops. Windows 8.1 and the Update 1 both brought great improvements. Windows 10 is amazing, to be honest. It's almost like a Mac OS release...tons of new features, multiple desktops, the way it works on each device, and automatically optimizes it's behavior for each device, is pretty wicked cool if you ask me. I think Microsoft has a real winner with Windows 10. Once it is fully refined for release, it should be a much more solid OS than Windows 8, which was WORLDS better than Vista ever was (and which was what I consider Microsoft's true flub...not necessarily because it was all that bad...Vista's biggest issue was lack of driver support out the gate and it took some 8 months and change to get that fully figured out...bad news. Once the drivers were available, even Vista was pretty nice, if maybe a little too glossy and shiny. ) 


The big thing for me is the reliability and speed of Windows 8. It's blazing fast. Very low resource usage. People complaining about lack of an upgrade path for XP...Windows 8 is less resource intensive than Windows 7. If you upgrade to 7, then upgrade to 8, you should have a pretty optimal system. (I upgrades XP to Vista to 7 to 8, without ever uninstalling. I finally bought a new SSD boot drive and installed 8.1 Update 1 clean on that for the first time in many years.)


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## IMG_0001 (Oct 19, 2014)

My new machine is windows 8.1 laptop with touchscreen. I don't use the touch function much, but Win8 sure is an upgrade once you get used to do it. However, i've tried it on an asus transformer tablet and found that it really did not scale well to the tablet format. Version 10 sure has something to improve in that regard.


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## IMG_0001 (Oct 19, 2014)

One last question in regard to windows going to be subscription based. Am I right by saying that Mac OS is already a bit like that. Although buying the computer provides you with a lifetime subscription...


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## pwp (Oct 19, 2014)

lintoni said:


> This seems like a good opportunity to mention that I _loathe_ Windows 8.1.


I run two workstation-class PC's, identically set up, saving the work out to a server. If one system goes down, I can just swear for a while, roll to my left and keep working with little loss. My top-specced Windows 7 machines were brilliant, lasting over four years. I usually swap over after three years. 

The just-built smoking-hot Premiere Pro-ready PC's are Window 8.1. What an awful OS. Clearly Steve Bulmers parting practical joke to the PC users of this nice blue planet. I'm almost certain to write-off a day or two to go back to Win 7. Win 10 _sounds_ like a hugely improved OS, they need to consign Win 8 to history ASAP, back in the naughty corner with Win ME and Vista. 

I'm platform agnostic with a two Macs as well as the PC's. OSX is very nice, but it's hard to get anything like the bang for your buck in a Mac compared to a custom built PC. In the unlikely event that Windows 10 is another epic-fail, it could be time to build up business and get a couple of top-specced Mac Pros. 

-pw


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 19, 2014)

I have bought two new Windows 8 Dell XPS desktops. I wanted to like Windows 8, but finally gave up trying to run some software had me tearing my hair out. I have a relative working as a manager at MS, he was not happy with it either, but faithfully runs it using start 8 to get the desktop back.

I merely bought two new SSD's for the computers and installed windows 7 on them. Dell supplies windows 7 drivers for their new XPS models, you can have either OS installed on a new one, but they cost less with windows 8, and I have several full copies of windows 7 that I can install.
That new imac with the 27 inch retina display does sound interesting.


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