# Own a 5D3 - need a backup...



## Hydrogen (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

I presently own a 5D3. Have had the 5D3 for three months now and really love the camera. Wish I could own two 5D3's. I would get the 5D2 as a backup, but @ ~$1,200 used, it's just way more than I'm willing to spend after investing in lighting equipment. ~$700 is the absolute limit for me, even lower is better.

I am looking to get a better backup to the 5D3 than my 20D is (no contest) and I am considering a used 5D classic or used 50D. I realize they are completely different options with pros and cons to each, but here is my thought process. Please note that I am a prosumer turning professional and will be taking more and more family and couples portraits with a near-future goal to shoot weddings.

1. 5D will match the full frame of my 5D3 so it makes for a closer 1:1 backup in terms of FOV.

2. 5D appears it would have better high ISO performance. Likely better IQ and shallower DOF because of the FF and higher DLA for those narrow aperture landscapes as the size of the photo sites being larger. The 50D actually has a pretty low DLA of f/7.5 vs. the f/10.1 of the 5D3 and f/10.2 of my 20D.

3. A feature lacking in the 5D classic that I would very much be missing that I have in my 5D3 is AFMA. This is one huge benefit in my view of the 50D and on a tangent, where I believe the 60D falls short and hope to see a 70D with AFMA again. I want to be able to tweak my lenses myself (so long as they aren't way out of spec). I sent lenses in when they exceed +/-5 AFMA.

4. Would down-sizing/sampling a 15MP image out of 50D down to 12MP to match that of those images coming from the 5D overcome any higher ISO noise from the 50D (to a point - i.e. ISO 1600)?

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

-Darius


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## Nishi Drew (Mar 15, 2013)

Hmm, 5Dc and 50D are pretty close in general IQ but at 1600ISO the 5Dc will have a slight edge, while you being used to the 5DIII now would mean the 5Dc would remain as an absolute backup as it'd be far slower in response and it'd possibly be 'uncomfortable' to switch to it.
I'm in a similar situation, don't quite need a backup yet but it would really help in some situations as my current is a 5DII and a backup of a Rebel T1i that I don't even touch, just purely an in case device. I could grab a used 60D for real cheap now, but the lack of AFMA bothers me as well, but for video work that isn't an issue, and I could limit the use of UWAs on that. While considering the 60Ds sensor isn't stellar with it's age and being behind the 5DII, I'm waiting to see what this 7DII/70D will turn out to be, if it's good and not insanely priced then I can go for that, if not then either way the 60D should hopefully drop in value some more and become a real bargain. I know other wedding shooters carrying the 60D or even 50D as second bodies so really either of those are perfectly usable.


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## pedro (Mar 15, 2013)

As I don't know your saving scheme, how about to hold out a bit longer and buy a 6D?


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## Camerajah (Mar 15, 2013)

in terms of price and UI its the 7D with firmware 2xx


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## bdunbar79 (Mar 15, 2013)

If you're going to buy that old of a camera, don't get the 5Dc. Get a used 1Ds Mark II. WAY better.


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## crasher8 (Mar 15, 2013)

In a similar situation myself but really want the batteries to match so that limits my options. Have you considered that as well?


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## Wilmark (Mar 15, 2013)

I have been putting some thought into this same question recently as I need a backup. I think the 6D is a great back up - the IQ is potentially very similar to the 5D and it expands your capabilities by adding the GPS, wireless and even low light ability. It is also a great B video cam. However I feel its too expensive. I'd wait a few months until its more heavily discounted. My second consideration is that I find my self more and more interested in Landscape photog., for which canon and the 5D in general is not the best (as the wide lenses and zooms are supposedly better on the nikon side). Would it make sense to buy a D800, and a high end wide zoom? And maybe a more GP nikon zoom so that it could be a back up for the 5D? Quite often if I am at a scenic area doing long exposures which can take up to ten minutes per shot. I wish i had another camera to walk around with. The settings on both are very different and switching from long exp to say AV require that I change about 7 settings on the camera and I always miss a few, its annoying.


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## Skirball (Mar 15, 2013)

Wilmark said:


> I have been putting some thought into this same question recently as I have been getting jobs where I need a backup. I think the 6D is a great back up - the IQ is potentially very similar to the 5D and it expands your capabilities by adding the GPS, wireless and even low light ability. It is also a great B video cam. However I feel its too expensive. I'd wait a few months until its more heavily discounted.



You really think the 6D is going to drop that much over the next few months?


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## Wilmark (Mar 15, 2013)

Skirball said:


> You really think the 6D is going to drop that much over the next few months?



The 5D M3 dropped periodically about 6 months after it was released by a full $1000, even when there was strong demand. Most reviews clearly put the D600 ahead of the 6D, although there are issues with quality and dust. I think the price will drop for short bursts, but you have to be on the look out.


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## Hydrogen (Mar 15, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your responses and considerations.

@Nishi Drew: It sounds like the 7DII may end up being a 'gripped' body and may be close to, or even exceed the US$2,000 mark. Canon rep has been quoted as stating it will be in a 'different' league than the 7D. At that point, a used 5D2 or 6D would make more sense here. The 70D though, if they place a better sensor into it than the 60D/7D have today and bring AFMA back, it could be very interesting. But at an estimated ~US$1,000+/- that may have me looking to a 5D2 again.

@Camerajah: 7D UI and body being very similar to the 5D3 would make for a good crop body alternative and would give me some more reach for bird/nature photog and that would be nice. I am considering that.

@bdunbar79: I have also been looking at the 1DsII. My concern is the old and more costly batteries, still lack of AFMA, very small LCD - smaller than 5Dc I think? and still a relatively higher ~US$1k price tag for such an old body.

@Wilmark: Do you own a Nikon? I ask because I have very much been lately considering a switch after my EF 35mm f/1.4L has been into service SEVEN times and they still have not been able to get it right and another zoom took FOUR repairs just to fix a small issue. *Canon Factory Service is slipping. * I wouldn't mind being without a lens for 30 days (Nikon) if I have a higher chance of getting it back in perfect working order. That said, are you referring to seven buttons/setting changes between Av and long-exposure as being a problem for you with the Nikon's or Canon's? As I would use a Custom program for the long exposure tweaks on a Canon body.

If I can pick up the 5Dc for ~$500 I may just do it and then look to a 70D or something else in the future.

-Darius


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## Halfrack (Mar 15, 2013)

Love my 1Ds mk2 - batteries aren't that bad if you go non-oem:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817551012

The lcd screen sucks, no 2 ways about it. But, it doubles as a blunt object if ever dealing with rioters. Just keep in mind that moving back and forth between them requires you to be fully awake, or in my case 2 coffee's in.


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## RGF (Mar 15, 2013)

I have a similar situation, 5D M3 with a very heavy 1D as backup. 1D is great for wildlife (10 FPS), rugged, ... but weighs a ton. How long should I wait for the 6D prices to fall? Don't need a backup immediately, but will need one this summer or autumn.


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## Txema (Mar 15, 2013)

I would recommend you the 5Dc. I`ve been using it for pro weddings and travel photography since it's release. It's a great camera though slow in extreme low light situations. I bought the 5D markIII on november, but with good light I still use the 5Dc.


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## Wilmark (Mar 15, 2013)

Hydrogen said:


> Wilmark: Do you own a Nikon? I ask because I have very much been lately considering a switch after my EF 35mm f/1.4L has been into service SEVEN times and they still have not been able to get it right and another zoom took FOUR repairs just to fix a small issue. *Canon Factory Service is slipping. * I wouldn't mind being without a lens for 30 days (Nikon) if I have a higher chance of getting it back in perfect working order. That said, are you referring to seven buttons/setting changes between Av and long-exposure as being a problem for you with the Nikon's or Canon's? As I would use a Custom program for the long exposure tweaks on a Canon body.



I dont own nikon but I monitor the boards. I feel Nikon has more quality and service issues. If you look at the the D800 and D600 they are very good cameras on paper but bogged down by quality and customer issues (even superior to their canon counterparts theoretically). Nikon seems less likely to admit that there are issues. I think that CPS serves pros very well. I wouldn't make a judgement call on one lens issue. However i can see myself being served by a D800 and for that I will have to make a few lens purchases. Long exposure usually means having multiple filters on the camera with autofocus and IS off, unfortunately custom settings dont take care of that! I suspect that bulb exposures may be easier on the D800, as i know that it has a built in intervalometer, still investigating. All the best.


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## stipotle (Mar 15, 2013)

I have had the 5D3 as well (for the last 6 months), upgrading from the 5Dc. 

As a _*second*_ body the 5Dc can be difficult, because it's so different from the mkIII (ergonomics and LCD). Switching back and forth is a bit frustrating. I don't know the ergonomics of the 50D though, so that will probably be a downside either way. I never use anything but center AF point either with the 5Dc - so if that's an important issue for you maybe that's +1 for the 7D and it's supposedly MUCH better AF. (But the 7D is over budget, so -1 right back)

HOWEVER - as a _*backup*_ body I would say go for it. I still LOVE the images from my 5Dc. if I didn't love the mkIII so much I would probably try to find more reasons to use the old body. I still think the IQ is fantastic (overall - color and noise patterns etc), and 1600 ISO is very much acceptable in RAW. If you can get one for $500-$600 I don't think there's a chance in hell you'd regret it. 

Also - I think the full frame is probably a bigger deal than you think, ensuring that the lenses / lengths you are working with don't change. I realize that AMFA is a real need, but honestly it was never an issue with the 5Dc _for me_. 

Good Luck!


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## RLPhoto (Mar 15, 2013)

Get a 5Dc and Put a EG-S focusing screen in it. It will allow you to focus fast primes better. Also, the 5Dc is still has better IQ than any APS-C camera canon currently makes, and for cheap.

5Dc all the way.


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## Hydrogen (Mar 15, 2013)

Thanks everyone again.

@RLPhoto - Good point on the focusing screen. It's one reason I almost returned my 5D3 - because of it's inability to replace focusing screens, I am effectively locked out of using Zeiss lenses ACCURATELY in the future. I know there are going to be people here who disagree and believe they can "accurately" manual-focus a fast prime using 5D3's built-in one-shot focusing notification, but I've read enough to disagree.

I just got outbid on a mint 5Dc on eBay.


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## DCM1024 (Mar 15, 2013)

I have a 5D3 with 7D as backup, last year I was shooting with 5D2 as primary. The biggest frustration I had was that when selecting my keepers, I was finding that less than 1% were from the 7D. It's possible that this was a lens issue (I was using the EF-S 55-250 and have now upgraded to an EF 70-200 F4L IS). I am willing to try the 7D again to determine if it's an issue with the lens I've been using or do I simply prefer the FF IQ? The bf has been put on notice that he may be losing one of his 5D2s, lol.


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## Sporgon (Mar 15, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Get a 5Dc and Put a EG-S focusing screen in it. It will allow you to focus fast primes better. Also, the 5Dc is still has better IQ than any APS-C camera canon currently makes, and for cheap.
> 
> 5Dc all the way.
> [/quote
> ...


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## NYCPHOTO (Mar 15, 2013)

I use a 5D Mark 3 as my primary...was using 5D Classic...and love the new camera.

I have a 6D a back up...and second camera.

As a back up....it's fine...but a keep judging it to me 5D3 and it just isn't the same.

Miss the rocker switch alot.

I need to send the 5D3 in for replacement of the out shell ( see my other post ) and
I keep hesitating...not wanting to only have the 6D

I shoot for a living so it really does make a difference.

If you can wait...I'd see what the 7D Mark II looks like.

Good luck with your decision.


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## Skirball (Mar 15, 2013)

The guy says he has a $700 limit and people are suggesting 6Ds, 7D2s, and jumping ship to a 800D.


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## V8Beast (Mar 15, 2013)

For $700, you can't go wrong with a 5DC. Like RL said, even an OLD full-frame body like the 5DC crushes a 50D and 7D in terms of ISO, color depth, contrast, and overall IQ. 

In fact, Canon has made very little improvement in IQ to its current flagship crop body (7D) versus it's OLD crop bodies (10D/20D). According to DxO:

20D
Overall Score: 62
Color Depth: 21.9
Dynamic Range: 11 EV
ISO: 721

7D
Overall Score: 66
Color Depth: 22
Dynamic Range: 11.7 EV
ISO: 854


Now compare this to the 5DC:

Overall Score 71
Color Depth: 22.9
Dynamic Range: 11.1 EV
ISO: 1368


Having shot with all three bodies before (20D, 7D, 5DC), DxO's ratings translate to field performance rather well. Interestingly, although the 7D has the edge over the 5DC in DR on paper, I find that the 5DC handles fine tonal gradations (especially grays and blacks) soooooo much better than the 7D that I don't care at all about it's .6 EV disadvantage. If you can put up with its horrific AF and antiquated screen, the 5DC still offers exceptional IQ.


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## Hydrogen (Mar 15, 2013)

I realized I posted originally with $700 as my limit, but after losing two 5Dc opportunities on eBay - the good ones slipped away and I don't want a beat up and overly used camera, I saw that 5D2 refurbs were back in stock at Canon and pulled the trigger. Crazy, I know. But at least now I don't have to keep changing lenses on the 5D3 when I want to take a picture and the IQ will be practically the same.

Just wish Canon Direct didn't charge sales tax...


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## RLPhoto (Mar 15, 2013)

Hydrogen said:


> I realized I posted originally with $700 as my limit, but after losing two 5Dc opportunities on eBay - the good ones slipped away and I don't want a beat up and overly used camera, I saw that 5D2 refurbs were back in stock at Canon and pulled the trigger. Crazy, I know. But at least now I don't have to keep changing lenses on the 5D3 when I want to take a picture and the IQ will be practically the same.
> 
> Just wish Canon Direct didn't charge sales tax...



These don't look too bad. Buy at your own discretion.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-12-8-Megapixel-Camera-Body-Great-Camera-11701-/190811715422?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item2c6d43b75e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-12-8-MP-Digital-SLR-Body-w-BG-E4-Grip-/230944590575?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item35c55ecaef

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-12-8-MP-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body-Only-with-Extras-/390557381347?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item5aef08b2e3

The third one looks the best to me.


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## crasher8 (Mar 15, 2013)

Canon Loyalty Program would have saved you some dough as well on a 5D2.


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## bdunbar79 (Mar 16, 2013)

Hydrogen said:


> I realized I posted originally with $700 as my limit, but after losing two 5Dc opportunities on eBay - the good ones slipped away and I don't want a beat up and overly used camera, I saw that 5D2 refurbs were back in stock at Canon and pulled the trigger. Crazy, I know. But at least now I don't have to keep changing lenses on the 5D3 when I want to take a picture and the IQ will be practically the same.
> 
> Just wish Canon Direct didn't charge sales tax...



You'll be very happy with the 5D2. 5D3/5D2 combo makes a lot of sense to me. Just put one lens on the 5D3 and the other on the 5D2 and they are basically the same systems, so then just shoot away.


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## Dim (Mar 17, 2013)

Hydrogen, what lenses will you put on your back up camera? 
You can use 24-70 f2.8 on 5D3 and 85 f1,2 on 5Dc. It will be good and quality of pictures will not differ much I think. 

And what about rent? I take lenses for rent and light sometimes besides fly-cam and scater-dolly. 
It's very expensive to have everything for own.


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## bdunbar79 (Mar 17, 2013)

Dim said:


> Hydrogen, what lenses will you put on your back up camera?
> You can use 24-70 f2.8 on 5D3 and 85 f1,2 on 5Dc. It will be good and quality of pictures will not differ much I think.
> 
> And what about rent? I take lenses for rent and light sometimes besides fly-cam and scater-dolly.
> It's very expensive to have everything for own.



Since he already bought a 5D2, the point is moot.


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## SiliconVoid (Mar 17, 2013)

Skip the 50D, get a 40D if you aren't needing a current body.. Regardless of the spec sheets the 50D cannot match its older sibling. The micro adjustment for different lenses is nice to have in the 50D, but honestly I have not put a lens on my 40D that has needed any adjustment.


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