# Best Flash



## 14thegipper (Feb 12, 2014)

I have: 
7D
24-105 f/4
70/200 2.8 II

Is the Speedlite 600 overkill?

Or is there no such thing as overkill in this hobby?

Thanks!!


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 12, 2014)

Get the 600, there's no such thing as overkill.  

It's also just a damn good flash. You will have radio wireless control, should you ever decide to get the flash off camera. Either way, you want a flash where you can tilt the head to bounce, and preferably rotate the head as well. That means the 430, 580, or 600. The 580 and 600 rotate in a more convenient fashion. The other nice advantage they have over the 430, when bouncing flash, is the built in catchlight panel. Yes, there are third-party alternatives you can install on a 430, but having it built into the flash is much better.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 12, 2014)

14thegipper said:


> Is the Speedlite 600 overkill?



Get the 600rt if you want...
- 200mm zoom setting
- great menu/wheel usability
- the power output of a "large" flash
- 1dx/5d3-compat af assist beam
- radio control (i.e. buy at least *two* 600rt)
- group mode (i.e. buy at least *three* 600rt or want to use a m-ettl mix) ... on 7d, you also need the Yongnuo yn-st-e3 controller as it's a pre-2012 camera body.

Don't get it but cheaper flashes if you use...
- your pop-up flash as an optical master
- max power setting a lot (fries the expensive flash sooner or later)
- or manual mode a lot
- softboxes and other modfiers that require multiple flash units

Do wait for Yongnuo's clone that's bound to arrive soon if
- you're ok with a simpler af assist beam
- want to save money
- want to use 2nd curtain remote


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## m (Feb 12, 2014)

The 7D has built in off camera flash control via line of sight.
If this is not sufficient and you need the radio remote (going the 600 way) keep in mind that you need an additional sender to talk to the remote flash.

I think you should ask yourself:
Do I need to fire the flash remotely? If so, how? (radio, light or cable)
Do I need TTL?

I think a big strobe is way more overkill than a small speedlight could ever be.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 12, 2014)

m said:


> I think a big strobe is way more overkill than a small speedlight could ever be.



Yes...until you discover that off-camera lighting yields much better quality, and putting the light in a modifier is even better, and then you end up selling your 430 flashes and buying the 600 flashes you should have bought at the outset.


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## m (Feb 12, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> m said:
> 
> 
> > I think a big strobe is way more overkill than a small speedlight could ever be.
> ...



Sorry, I don't understand how that relates to my post.
With "big strobe" I was referring to flashes bigger than speedlights which are always off camera and usually used with a modifier.

I tried to point out that if one's afraid that a 600 is overkill, put a Profoto B1 next to it and it doesn't look that overkill anymore.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Feb 12, 2014)

Get the 600 EX-RT end of story..... you have some good gear and need a good flash to compliment it... better than buying cheap and regretting it. The 600ex-rt can be got faairly cheap at the moment!!


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 12, 2014)

m said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > m said:
> ...



Sorry, I didn't understand your point. I assumed 'big strobe' was a 600, and a 'smaller Speedlite' was something like a 270 or 430.

Yes, for a large modifier like a 4 foot Octabox, I'd rather spend $500 on an Einstein than >$2000 on a set of four 600 flashes and a quad bracket.


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## bholliman (Feb 12, 2014)

I agree with those recommending the 600EX-RT's. Well worth the extra money. I struggled with a 90EX master, 430EX II slave combo for about a year before investing in a pair of 600's. The 600's are much, much better. In addition to the advantages pointed out by others, they have a much better menu and control set-up. I wish i had started with the 600' s instead of starting with the smaller flashes.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 13, 2014)

m said:


> The 7D has built in off camera flash control via line of sight.
> If this is not sufficient and you need the radio remote (going the 600 way) keep in mind that you need an additional sender to talk to the remote flash.
> 
> I think you should ask yourself:
> ...



No, the 7D on board flash can act as an optical controller for the 600-EX-RT, obviously it is line of sight or indoor use (where it very much is not limited to line of sight) but it does give you the ability to get the 600 off camera from the word go at no extra cost.

P.S. I am a get the 600 vote too.


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## drjlo (Feb 13, 2014)

I would normally recommend other, less expensive, speedlites, but it looks like 600RT is going for $469 on Amazon (add to cart to see price), so why not? Get two..or three.


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## mrphotographer (Feb 13, 2014)

If price is an issue, and if you don't need ttl, might take a look at the godox v850, they have a ttl version coming out with v860c. Kinda tired dealing with all these AA batteries!

Else, everyone is right, 600 is awesome.


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## Jim Saunders (Feb 13, 2014)

I'd suggest the 600s for the sake of resale value if you want to get out of them later; They've made everything prior to them less attractive with all their new features.

Also all the new features. The wireless functionality is solid in my experience.

The Yongnuo 600 is worth a good look too.

Jim


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## privatebydesign (Feb 13, 2014)

Jim Saunders said:


> I'd suggest the 600s for the sake of resale value if you want to get out of them later; They've made everything prior to them less attractive with all their new features.
> 
> Also all the new features. The wireless functionality is solid in my experience.
> 
> ...



It might be if it existed, but even months after its announcement there is still no sign, or even reliable news, of when it might actually be available.


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## Danielle (Feb 13, 2014)

I personally would rate Metz at the top, they could be worth a look too. Very good flashes. I almost brought the top one but got a 52 af-1 instead. Touch screen, works like a charm as optical slave from the 7D and better than the canon 430. Big bit cheaper than a 600rt or the metz 58 af-1. Touch screen too. I'd look at those before other third party flashes. 

Food for thought I hope.


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## Jim Saunders (Feb 13, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> It might be if it existed, but even months after its announcement there is still no sign, or even reliable news, of when it might actually be available.



Seems Yongnuo has studied Canon in more detail than we realized...


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## m (Feb 13, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> m said:
> 
> 
> > The 7D has built in off camera flash control via line of sight.
> ...



I was talking about the radio remote. If the line of sight control is all 14thegipper needs, a 600 could be a very expensive way to do the same thing a 430/580 could deliver (not looking at output power)



Danielle said:


> I personally would rate Metz at the top, they could be worth a look too. Very good flashes. I almost brought the top one but got a 52 af-1 instead. Touch screen, works like a charm as optical slave from the 7D and better than the canon 430. Big bit cheaper than a 600rt or the metz 58 af-1. Touch screen too. I'd look at those before other third party flashes.



How's the touchscreen of the 52? I own the 50 and would like to add the 52 because it can be used as a master (50 is slave only)

+1 for Metz.

If you need more synch possibilities, a Phottix Mitros might be an alternative.
Again, it all boils down to how you want to use the flash:
on/off camera, radio/light-of-sight/cable synch, ttl?


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## alexturton (Feb 13, 2014)

For the same price by 2x 430's and a set of pixel kings for off camera ettl. I use pixel kings on 5d3 for great ettl wireless control both manual and Ettl ratio. Plus (!) sync up to 1/8000 which 600 can't do over wireless


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## privatebydesign (Feb 13, 2014)

alexturton said:


> For the same price by 2x 430's and a set of pixel kings for off camera ettl. I use pixel kings on 5d3 for great ettl wireless control both manual and Ettl ratio. Plus (!) sync up to 1/8000 which 600 can't do over wireless



Yes it can!


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## privatebydesign (Feb 13, 2014)

m,

Your statement was ambiguous and made two distinct claims which contradicted each other. Yes the 7D won't do radio natively, but "you need an additional sender to talk to the remote flash" is not true, that is the part I was addressing.


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## alben (Feb 13, 2014)

I already had a 430exII, so decided to go down the route of two Phottix Odin radio recievers and an on camera trigger, I have since acquired a Phottix Mitros flash (similar spec to the Canon 580) The receivers and triggers were £300 the flash £200 ( a mint demo unit ) they all work flawlessly.

Alan


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## Danielle (Feb 14, 2014)

Danielle said:


> I personally would rate Metz at the top, they could be worth a look too. Very good flashes. I almost brought the top one but got a 52 af-1 instead. Touch screen, works like a charm as optical slave from the 7D and better than the canon 430. Big bit cheaper than a 600rt or the metz 58 af-1. Touch screen too. I'd look at those before other third party flashes.



How's the touchscreen of the 52? I own the 50 and would like to add the 52 because it can be used as a master (50 is slave only)

+1 for Metz.

If you need more synch possibilities, a Phottix Mitros might be an alternative.
Again, it all boils down to how you want to use the flash:
on/off camera, radio/light-of-sight/cable synch, ttl?
[/quote]

Zero complaints of the touchscreen on the 52, the flash is a gem.


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## m (Feb 14, 2014)

@ Daniell:
as expected, nice.



privatebydesign said:


> but "you need an additional sender to talk to the remote flash" is not true, that is the part I was addressing.



That quote is out of context. I think I made my point pretty clear in the whole sentence:


> The 7D has built in off camera flash control via line of sight.
> If this is not sufficient and you need the *radio remote* (going the 600 way) keep in mind that you need an additional sender to talk to the remote flash.



I see how this is off topic and I apologies for that, but as a non native English speaker I would like to know what makes my post ambiguous.


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## Halfrack (Feb 14, 2014)

14thegipper said:


> Or is there no such thing as overkill in this hobby?


Basically, all of these flashes can be turned down, it's more of a matter of being able it up to max. +1 on the 600's, even setup an alert when they show up refurb on Canon's site.

Overkill may be a Profoto B1, but that depends on how many you have working together


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## ScottyP (Feb 14, 2014)

The Phottix Mitros+ flashes (the "plus" is important) has a well-respected Phottix Odin transmitter and receiver built into it. It does a couple of things the Canon 600 can't do, including second curtain sync off-camera. It is somewhat less money, though not as much less as before the Canons recently started appearing at cut rates.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 14, 2014)

ScottyP said:


> The Phottix Mitros+ flashes (the "plus" is important) has a well-respected Phottix Odin transmitter and receiver built into it. It does a couple of things the Canon 600 can't do, including second curtain sync off-camera. It is somewhat less money, though not as much less as before the Canons recently started appearing at cut rates.



The Canon RT system can do second curtain sync if you trigger it with a Yongnuo YN-E3-RT, but as ScottyP points out, not natively. Though I have yet to see a good example where off camera second curtain sync has been critical.

There is a huge amount of misinformation out there about all the various flash products, including the Canon RT system. Like Alex thinking the RT could not sync at 1/8000, or that you lose one stop of sync speed, or that you can't do remote second curtain sync, that the 600-EX-RT is not backwards compatible, etc etc.

As far as I know the RT system is the only hotshoe flash based radio system that has five independent groups, nobody else does. 

When I was looking to move to a radio based full control flash system the Odin's were the only other decent game in town, Phottix have subsequently greatly strengthened that line with the integrated Mitros+, but at $399 they are not "cheap", a mere $50 or so less than the Canon. 

One of the many reasons I ended up getting the Canon's was the peace of mind in knowing future compatibility, and potential resale value, would never be an issue.

I use flash a lot, and despite the cost I believe, even given the vast array of third party options and the other flashes in the Canon range, the 600-EX-RT would be the most appropriate flash for 14thegipper, though I don't believe it would be the most appropriate for everybody.


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## ScottyP (Feb 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > The Phottix Mitros+ flashes (the "plus" is important) has a well-respected Phottix Odin transmitter and receiver built into it. It does a couple of things the Canon 600 can't do, including second curtain sync off-camera. It is somewhat less money, though not as much less as before the Canons recently started appearing at cut rates.
> ...



Ok, but it is mot misinformation that it can't do 2nd curtain sync. You can't to it using a 600 in the shoe, and you can't use it using its Canon trigger. The fact that Yongnuo recently put out a knockoff that lets it work does not really count, does it? If anything, That would be saying Yongnuo can do it.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> The Canon RT system can do second curtain sync if you trigger it with a Yongnuo YN-E3-RT, but as ScottyP points out, not natively. Though I have yet to see a good example where off camera second curtain sync has been critical.



That's certainly beneficial and I'm looking forward to try it once my Yongnuo arrives, but afaik all flashes have to be set to m mode for it to work?


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## privatebydesign (Feb 14, 2014)

ScottyP said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > ScottyP said:
> ...


You see, another piece of misinformation (or poorly worded correct information), you absolutely can use a 600-EX-RT in the hotshoe in second curtain sync, you cannot control remote flashes with the 600 in the shoe *and* use SCS, but they are two different things. 

As for it being Yongnuo that enabled remote SCS in M mode, well I wasn't picking sides, just pointing out capabilities. If you need SCS I was pointing out a way you could do it, but I'd hardly call that a Yongnuo doing it, lets face it they don't have a flash that works with their own trigger, so it is very much a combined effort, Canon can't do it by itself, neither can Youngnuo. But then I thought I covered that by saying *" not natively"* in my last post.


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## cayenne (Feb 14, 2014)

14thegipper said:


> I have:
> 7D
> 24-105 f/4
> 70/200 2.8 II
> ...



I have 2x of the 600RT's....and love them. I set up email notification from cannonpricewatch.com and I snared a couple of refurb 600's from the canon site for $373....

I just ordered the Yongnuo (sp?) knockoff of the ST-RT-E3 (sp?) controller...so, when it gets in, I'll now have both those 600's off camera and no need of a sync cable to one of them...all radio goodness all the time!!


I'm looking for my 3rd 600 when a deal pops up.

I got this modifer for one speedlight and love it.am using a rogue flash bender set up on the 2nd one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QXZ7OS/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(although I could swear I got it MUCH cheaper when I got mine).

Radio flash is fun....pricey but fun. The Yongnuo controller is said to be just as good or better than the Canon unit.
They are also putting out a 600RT clone, but I've not heard anything about it yet. What's cool is, if they've cracked the Canon radio protocols....other companies can too..and perhaps it might become somewhat of a "standard" and all remotes can work off it?

Ok..just daydreaming here at the end..haha

Cayenne


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## RLPhoto (Mar 8, 2014)

600rt is a bomb of a flashgun. Save for it and you won't regret it. (I only spent 373$ for refurbs. I have 5 of them now.)

As long as you don't need more power or 2nd curtain sync off camera. I'd add a soft lighter to your order. It makes stunning light.


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