# DIGIC V [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 13, 2011)

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<p><strong>The next EOS & PowerShot processor

</strong>It has been a long time since we spoke about or saw an updated DIGIC processor in a Canon Camera. It seems DIGIC IV has been around for a long time, 2008 to be exact.</p>
<p>I was told today that DIGIC V has been in development for at least 4 years. A lot has changed during its development because of the explosive success of the 5D Mark II and HD video.</p>
<p><strong>Features of the next DIGIC Processor</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Still and video noise reduction that will be industry revolutionary (I like that word)</li>
<li>The most throughput on the market</li>
<li>Dynamic range improvements, unknown to what extent</li>
<li>New video codec. RAW video is unknown, but the throughput will attainable</li>
<li>New liveview AF abilities, unknown whether that will affect video AF</li>
<li>New “creative” tools for new DSLR and compact features</li>
</ul>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## renaars (Apr 13, 2011)

Any word if this digic V processor will be in the 5D mkIII ?


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## HughHowey (Apr 13, 2011)

renaars said:


> Any word if this digic V processor will be in the 5D mkIII ?



It will have to be. In development for 4 years? There's no other way for them to increase the MP and FPS unless they keep adding more DIGIC IVs, which is probably more expensive than a more modern, efficient chip.


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## bkj216 (Apr 13, 2011)

Hmm looks like I'll hold off on that 60D/7D then...I can wait til Digic V.


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## renaars (Apr 13, 2011)

HughHowey said:


> It will have to be. In development for 4 years? There's no other way for them to increase the MP and FPS unless they keep adding more DIGIC IVs, which is probably more expensive than a more modern, efficient chip.


True. However, they should be mass producing the chip by now if they plan to use it in the 5D mkIII I guess. Strange that there hasn't been any rumors about the digic V earlier.


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## fernando (Apr 13, 2011)

Yes! I knew waiting was the right choice. Sorry 60D, a new Canon with a Digic V it is! ;D


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## alipaulphotography (Apr 13, 2011)

5D Mk III within a month, new DSLR imminent and now details on the DIGIC V - Anyone else starting to think something is coming soon? Would be nice for wedding season.

These DSLRs are like volcanos at the moment. Long over due but dormant...


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## fernando (Apr 13, 2011)

alipaulphotography said:


> 5D Mk III within a month, new DSLR imminent and now details on the DIGIC V - Anyone else starting to think something is coming soon? Would be nice for wedding season.
> 
> These DSLRs are like volcanos at the moment. Long over due but dormant...



PLUS a New Final Cut was just announced and Adobe bumped Premiere and After Effects to CS5.5 with amazing image stabilization and rolling shutter technology!

Things are looking promising for the future of DSLR's


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## Lawliet (Apr 13, 2011)

renaars said:


> True. However, they should be mass producing the chip by now if they plan to use it in the 5D mkIII I guess. Strange that there hasn't been any rumors about the digic V earlier.



With a new chip its easier to keep things under wrap - the group of people involved is limited and tightly bound to Canon. You don't take prototypes out for a spin and risk someone getting a closer look then intended.


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## HughHowey (Apr 13, 2011)

renaars said:


> HughHowey said:
> 
> 
> > It will have to be. In development for 4 years? There's no other way for them to increase the MP and FPS unless they keep adding more DIGIC IVs, which is probably more expensive than a more modern, efficient chip.
> ...



The iPhone and other gadgets are similar in this regard. The chips are practically invisible until close to release. All Canon would have to do to drastically slow body sales is mention a new processor. Just look at a comment or two in this thread. New proc == wait on that purchase.

Just a few days ago, I was idly speculating in another thread that we'd have to see DIGIC V with the next bodies. Things are really starting to point toward a 5d3 by the end of the year.


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## shorthand (Apr 13, 2011)

When I pause to think where ARM was 4 years ago compared to where it is now, their high-end multicore capabilities are on a different planet - think 3 generations of iPhones and now iPads.

Also given the HDSLR revolution that has occurred along with Sony's lead in dynamic range and its timing, I get the feeling that the DIGIC V design went back to square 1 at least twice.

Most interesting to me, though, as someone who does HDR and landscape stuff is the improvement in dynamic range (almost certainly from an improved, low-noise ADC design).


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## George Mansveld (Apr 13, 2011)

I was wondering (for a long time now)
Introducing Digic V, is Canon considering going away from the jpg file format and introduce a newer, more improved format like png?


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## LFG530 (Apr 13, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> <li>Dynamic range improvements, unknown to what extent</li>



I tought DR was more a sensor thing? What's the link between a new processor and that?


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## torger (Apr 13, 2011)

LFG530 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > <li>Dynamic range improvements, unknown to what extent</li>
> ...



My guess is that it has something to do with the RAW->JPEG conversion, perhaps some tone-mapping feature. That is no real DR improvement, but some more or less refined way to tone-map more range from the RAW data into the JPEG. Even if so it is good news since it probably means that the sensors is expected to have higher dynamic range than the currently available, and thus creating a need for automatic tone-mapping for those photographers that don't shoot RAW.


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## torger (Apr 13, 2011)

George Mansveld said:


> I was wondering (for a long time now)
> Introducing Digic V, is Canon considering going away from the jpg file format and introduce a newer, more improved format like png?



PNG is not designed for photographic images. "Next generation" format would probably be JPEG2000 or something, but it is computationally intensive and there's poor software support etc. I think JPEG is still the least bad alternative to RAW for some years to come. Most professionals use RAW anyway. It is unfortunate that Canon, Nikon etc refuses to make their RAW formats public though. In practice they are thanks to reverse engineering in dcraw, but it would be a nice gesture from the manufacturers to actually publish the specs.


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## Lawliet (Apr 13, 2011)

LFG530 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > <li>Dynamic range improvements, unknown to what extent</li>
> ...



The sensor is one part, but the readout is just as important. With DIGIC being a catch all for everything between the sensor and the memory card it might be something akin to the magic in the 16MPSony-sensors. 8)


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## hutjeflut (Apr 13, 2011)

revolutionairy noise controll sounds good it almost sounds TO good making me wonder if this is just a load of software noise controll or some actualy improvement.
other then that im not really interested in any of the features except maby touch focus for life view noise and shutterspeeds higher iso gives me is my main concern.


ps. the post confirmation question doesnt know about yellow snow i suggest you educate it before you know what happens.


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## gene_can_sing (Apr 13, 2011)

I think the Digic V was leaked to save face at NAB. Canon must be super embarrassed about NAB because they had nothing significant to announce 2 years in a row. This year, Sony dominated NAB since they are releasing 2 great video cameras very soon in May and June I believe. And Sony is also going to release several DSLR that are going to take on Canon. Sony is really stepping it up. The Sony F65, while NOT affordable to any of us, is truly the future of high end video.

Last year, Panasonic had the NAB spot light with the AF 101.

Meanwhile, Canon has just been milking profits and not releasing anything significant since the 5d2, which in tech years has been a LONG time.

But at NAB, something must have clicked in Canon after seeing Sony take all the attention with some serious ground breaking stuff. So at the end of the show, they whimper something about Digic 5 to save face.

I'm glad Canon is being forced into action, because with their lack of productivity, their camera bodies, especially on the video end (which is moving so fast with Panny and Sony), is starting to look a million years old.

When the 5D2 came out, Canon was in a really, really unique position. They were the only manufacture with an interchangeable HD camera that had a bunch of really good, modern high end, affordable lenses to choose from. They accidentally created an entire high quality HD system that people could afford.

They just haven't really followed up on it and now they're playing catchup to Sony and Panny, where as they could just owned and dominated the market if they weren't so conservative.

For me, it's been really frustrating, because I have a number of Canon lenses which I LOVE, and it's hard to jump ship when you're vested like that. But customers can only use dated technology for so long before they switch and the stuff goes on e-bay.

I truly hope Canon pulls it off because I love the Canon aesthetic and colors and lenses, and on the video end, they don't really have that much to address (no moire, a better codec and bit better resolve on the image -- basically the Panny Gh2) and they will be up top again. 

I think that's why the video people have been so frustrated, because it hasn't been that tall of an order for Canon to do, yet they keep dragging their feet and releasing cameras with the same video problems over and over again (7D, t2i, 60d, 600d).


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## DuLt (Apr 13, 2011)

gene_can_sing said:


> I think the Digic V was leaked to save face at NAB. Canon must be super embarrassed about NAB because they had nothing significant to announce 2 years in a row. This year, Sony dominated NAB since they are releasing 2 great video cameras very soon in May and June I believe. And Sony is also going to release several DSLR that are going to take on Canon. Sony is really stepping it up. The Sony F65, while NOT affordable to any of us, is truly the future of high end video.
> 
> Last year, Panasonic had the NAB spot light with the AF 101.
> 
> ...



What bothers me mostly about the video implementation isn't the slow tech improvements, it's the implementation.

With Digic V I hope canon improves on the ergonomical implementation of video mode...


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## engr denz (Apr 14, 2011)

HughHowey said:


> renaars said:
> 
> 
> > Any word if this digic V processor will be in the 5D mkIII ?
> ...



Digic V will be a Dual Core 1ghz proc. making it possible for 8FPS on single chip. and 12FPS on two chips (1D mkV)


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## Stuart (Apr 14, 2011)

So two new chips - the Digic V and the sensor to go with it.
As suggested above a better ADC design to get dynamic range, the DXO marks always knocked Canon down on these so this will be a welcome improvement.
More throughput is great but this may not equate to more fps as the sensor mPixels will increase too.
Industry revolutionary noice reduction - a totally different way of reducing noise, that's exciting, i hope its a pixel level sensitive electronics design and not just software. This will also give better dynamic range.

Nothing about global shutter for video or bent helicopter blades at certain shutter speeds?

â€œcreativeâ€ tools for new DSLR and compact features - will we not need photoshop?
I'm hoping for eye detection and focus selection. Interesting that this core is also aimed at compacts, maybe less memory area in the compact version.

Re: comments about not buying a 60D but one of these instead - This solution for a 5dmk3 will initially be 3 times the cost of a 60D, so whilst i agree its tempting to wait, this next product will be in a different market are to the 60D. 
I hope in mid 2012 it filters down to a 7Dmk2 then maybe i can afford it.


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## WarStreet (Apr 14, 2011)

engr denz said:


> HughHowey said:
> 
> 
> > renaars said:
> ...



At what 5DIII & 1DV MP count did you estimate these ? Any info we don't know ?


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## BennyJ (Apr 14, 2011)

torger said:


> It is unfortunate that Canon, Nikon etc refuses to make their RAW formats public though. In practice they are thanks to reverse engineering in dcraw, but it would be a nice gesture from the manufacturers to actually publish the specs.



I would even go further and would really like to see Canon and other majors switch to DNG as their default RAW format, or at least add support for it. I think the time of proprietary RAW formats is coming to an end. They're unflexible, not future-proof and offer no significant advantages over open standards like DNG.


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## DuLt (Apr 14, 2011)

Stuart said:


> So two new chips - the Digic V and the sensor to go with it.
> As suggested above a better ADC design to get dynamic range, the DXO marks always knocked Canon down on these so this will be a welcome improvement.
> More throughput is great but this may not equate to more fps as the sensor mPixels will increase too.
> Industry revolutionary noice reduction - a totally different way of reducing noise, that's exciting, i hope its a pixel level sensitive electronics design and not just software. This will also give better dynamic range.
> ...



Looking forward for 650d.


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## motorhead (Apr 14, 2011)

For the time being I'd much prefer to keep manufacturer specific processing methods. It keeps the door open for major advances. Locking everyone into a particular RAW "flavour" this early in the development of digital cameras seems like tying designers hands behind their backs.

I don't find it a problem. Canon provide me with DPP, which is designed to work with the RAW formats they use. I don't have to buy it, it's offered completely free and gets updated frequently (v3.9.4 is the latest release).

By the way, "Amateur Photographer" has a short article this week on Bayer pattern sensors which mentions a host of adjustments the processor has to do to the basic data it receives. So it's easy to see how the Digic5 might have taken 4 years of work, and why its essential it works well with whatever sensor it is harnessed to.


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## BennyJ (Apr 14, 2011)

motorhead said:


> For the time being I'd much prefer to keep manufacturer specific processing methods. It keeps the door open for major advances. Locking everyone into a particular RAW "flavour" this early in the development of digital cameras seems like tying designers hands behind their backs.
> 
> I don't find it a problem. Canon provide me with DPP, which is designed to work with the RAW formats they use. I don't have to buy it, it's offered completely free and gets updated frequently (v3.9.4 is the latest release).



That's true but it forces you to actually use DPP which doesn't really fit into the Photoshop-oriented workflow of many photographers anyway. Sure you could also use Camera Raw which currently supports nearly all formats thanks to the enourmous effort Adobe put into it, but the point is: You just don't know how things will be in some years. Will the particular RAW format of some old EOS body still be supported? Will DPP still be around? Will Canon even still exist? OK, you could just try to install the old software, but will it still run and will you be able to get it when you need it? Many questions you can't answer today. 

On the other hand: I don't believe there are so many innovations to be expected in terms of RAW formats. Basically, it's all about image data and meta data. The image data stays the same, there are different ways of encoding it, yes, but that should be easy to handle for an open format. Meta data is more tricky because the vendors put some undocumented stuff into it. But do you really need it if you don't know what it is anyway? Probably not. And if Canon switched to an open standard, they could easily integrate their specific meta data into it as well. So yea, I think it's about time for them to support DNG, at least as an option. Some other camera makers already do.


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## shorthand (Apr 14, 2011)

You can bet that if Canon throws its weight behind a new image format, support for that format will appear VERY quickly.

In terms of image format, the gap isn't in compression, its in dynamic range. JPEG 2000 is only 20% more efficient than JPEG-1.

Therefore, I think we may instead see a new lossy compression format that captures more than 8 bits of dynamic range. (JPEG-HDR or Clarity HDR or ERI or something else similar) The pro community could really use this instead of "shunken" RAW files.


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## motorhead (Apr 14, 2011)

BennyJ,

It's not simply the RAW format, its more complicated than that. I cannot see the digital camera sensor lasting in it's present form, it's simply far too expensive to produce. So assuming a better and cheaper method will arrive at some time, probably out of some eccentric geniuses shed, I believe we will be using very different processing methods. 

Like you I don't trust computer software producers as far as I can throw them, but I'd trust Canon/Nikon etc more than I'd trust third parties like Adobe, who have shown a scant regard for existing customers over the years.


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## BennyJ (Apr 15, 2011)

motorhead said:


> So assuming a better and cheaper method will arrive at some time, probably out of some eccentric geniuses shed, I believe we will be using very different processing methods.



Maybe, maybe not. From today's perspective that's rather unlikely. At the end of the day, it's all about pixels, so processing probably won't change that much. But we don't know. It's also a topic of its own that doesn't really have anything to do with today's RAW/DNG debate.



> but I'd trust Canon/Nikon etc more than I'd trust third parties like Adobe



It's not about trust, its about having an open standard. While Adobe may have invented DNG and may have been pushing it for a while, it's an open standard and easy to understand. Everyone could write programs to handle these files even in 100 years from now. On the other hand, Canons format is a secret only they really know. They even create a new, slightly different format for every Body they release. Although there is software like CR that does a great job interpreting it, I wouldn't rely on it for long-time archiving even though I love Canon


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## Olly (Apr 16, 2011)

I do not believe a single word of it. This is common marketing strategy from Canon. They are good at hyping things up. I have never ever seen a camera from Canon that was revolutionary compared to its predecessor. Never. They always make small incremental steps in IQ. ( If you believe everything Canon is saying you will probably disagree.. )

I hope for some improvements in DR and noise but I do not expect significant jumps, only minor improvements like we have seen before. 

Canon is making a lot of money these days. They will continue to focus on video, that is what the majority of the customers want. Still-imaging is important of course, it will be improved but not to the extent that some of us wish. Video quality, improved focusing, more in-camera processing, 20+ megapixels, that is what we will get. For this Canon need the speed of the coming DIGIC V.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 19, 2011)

renaars said:


> HughHowey said:
> 
> 
> > It will have to be. In development for 4 years? There's no other way for them to increase the MP and FPS unless they keep adding more DIGIC IVs, which is probably more expensive than a more modern, efficient chip.
> ...



There were rumors about it on the long term rumors posting on Northlight a few years ago. Talk of properly sampling over the entire frame for video and so on.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 19, 2011)

hutjeflut said:


> revolutionairy noise controll sounds good it almost sounds TO good making me wonder if this is just a load of software noise controll or some actualy improvement.
> other then that im not really interested in any of the features except maby touch focus for life view noise and shutterspeeds higher iso gives me is my main concern.
> 
> 
> ps. the post confirmation question doesnt know about yellow snow i suggest you educate it before you know what happens.



In terms of stills, yes, it's just marketing talk (unless you rely on in camera jpgs only). For video though, it could allow for much less noise since the current chips have not been fast enough to sample and bin properly at video speeds.


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## DuLt (Apr 19, 2011)

Olly said:


> I do not believe a single word of it. This is common marketing strategy from Canon. They are good at hyping things up. I have never ever seen a camera from Canon that was revolutionary compared to its predecessor. Never. They always make small incremental steps in IQ. ( If you believe everything Canon is saying you will probably disagree.. )
> 
> I hope for some improvements in DR and noise but I do not expect significant jumps, only minor improvements like we have seen before.
> 
> Canon is making a lot of money these days. They will continue to focus on video, that is what the majority of the customers want. Still-imaging is important of course, it will be improved but not to the extent that some of us wish. Video quality, improved focusing, more in-camera processing, 20+ megapixels, that is what we will get. For this Canon need the speed of the coming DIGIC V.



Doesn't digital "stills" reached some sort of peak in IQ?

I mean it's going to get better but it's sortoff the same in consumer cameras. Their flaws aren't limited by technology, they are mostly limited by marketing and design (I'm talking about the compact photographer that must have the 14mp camera but never prints a thing).

Only recently I've printed something that required more than 10mp, but still, the image has enough quality, more would be nice but not needed.


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