# Let’s talk about the Canon EOS R1 development [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 14, 2020)

> It’s no secret that Canon is developing an EOS-1D X Mark III level EOS R camera. We are calling it the EOS R1 until we’re told otherwise.
> I have been told that this camera won’t simply be a mirrorless version of the EOS-1D X Mark III, but will be an “upgrade”.
> Here are a few things I have been told by a good source, keep in mind that this far out from a product announcement, things can change.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## marathonman (Oct 14, 2020)

Canon PowerShot Zoom is *******.


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## carina_r31 (Oct 14, 2020)

"Groundbreaking new AF system?"

I'm already impressed from my R6's AF. 
And then this new ultra high framerate ... 

I will never ever need this camera, but it's fascinating to see technical development, so I'm pretty curious about what's more to come on this camera. But one's for sure, this will be a beast!


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## twoheadedboy (Oct 14, 2020)

Canon is ******* unless this does unlimited 8k 120p RAW with 10 stops IBIS and 16-bit DR


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## marathonman (Oct 14, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Canon is ******* unless this does unlimited 8k 120p RAW with 10 stops IBIS and 16-bit DR


And quad card slots.


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## H. Jones (Oct 14, 2020)

Welp, sure looks like next year all of my EF glass and bodies are getting sold.

I thought this year was bad enough between the R5 and my RF glass, but with the R1 and all the new RF lenses, 2021 is going to be *expensive.*


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## HikeBike (Oct 14, 2020)

Just when you thought DPAF II was fantastic..."groundbreaking" AF is coming. Canon isn't messing around.


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## marathonman (Oct 14, 2020)

DPAF ii is *******!


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## Nemorino (Oct 14, 2020)

HikeBike said:


> ."groundbreaking" AF is coming


Sounds like quad pixel AF.


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## AcaPixus (Oct 14, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Canon is ******* unless this does unlimited 8k 120p RAW with 10 stops IBIS and 16-bit DR


8K - you must be kidding, 8K is so old fashioned! 16K more likely! Or perhaps just 8K with no heating issues ;-)


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## dwarven (Oct 14, 2020)

It'll be faster than the 20fps in the 1DX Mark III. So somewhere between 30-60 probably? Sports shooters will essentially be taking videos and they'll just pull the frames out that they like for still images. No need to worry about a shutter breaking down. You can just hold the shutter button until you run out of memory lol. Also, wouldn't DR be worse with a global shutter than with a mechanical or rolling shutter?


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## SteveC (Oct 14, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Canon PowerShot Zoom is *******.



See, this is what Canon was supposed to pack into the M50-II.

At least, judging from some of the complaining I'm seeing over in those threads.


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## Josh Hawkins (Oct 14, 2020)

H. Jones said:


> I thought this year was bad enough between the R5 and my RF glass, but with the R1 and all the new RF lenses, 2021 is going to be *expensive.*



I believe that would be their objective.


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## dwarven (Oct 14, 2020)

H. Jones said:


> Welp, sure looks like next year all of my EF glass and bodies are getting sold.
> 
> I thought this year was bad enough between the R5 and my RF glass, but with the R1 and all the new RF lenses, 2021 is going to be *expensive.*



Hopefully Sigma will be coming to the rescue at some point.


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## Ruiloba (Oct 14, 2020)

How can focus better than R5 and R6? It will focus even before you push the button? If focus where you point your eye in the evf? Lol


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## john1970 (Oct 14, 2020)

Quad Pixel AF would be a possibility and a global shutter would be amazing.


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## Maximilian (Oct 14, 2020)

Sounds promissing.

If AF is that „groundbreaking“ I think I‘ll wait for it to trickle through to the cheapo R5 II bodies


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## Fletchahh (Oct 14, 2020)

Wild speculation, but I'm curious if an R7 is also in the works that would also have this "groundbreaking autofocus..."

One can hope!


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## Bonich (Oct 14, 2020)

marathonman said:


> And quad card slots.


With dual lens mount to speed up work.


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## NorskHest (Oct 14, 2020)

dwarven said:


> It'll be faster than the 20fps in the 1DX Mark III. So somewhere between 30-60 probably? Sports shooters will essentially be taking videos and they'll just pull the frames out that they like for still images. No need to worry about a shutter breaking down. You can just hold the shutter button until you run out of memory lol. Also, wouldn't DR be worse with a global shutter than with a mechanical or rolling shutter?


DR won’t be worse really but iso usually gets hurt. It will be interesting to see how this works. If they pull off good iso with a global shutter this could replace most low end cinema cameras. It will be interesting to see how they cripple this to protect other cameras. If they do 120fps around 4K with a global shutter you will see a lot of sad cinema camera owners, if they pull a 1dc and have no record limit with a global shutter and stellar iso performance above 12800 iso with 12 stops of DR all I can say is take my money


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## NorskHest (Oct 14, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> Sounds promissing.
> 
> If AF is that „groundbreaking“ I think I‘ll wait for it to trickle through to the cheapo R5 II bodies


If it has a global shutter any autofocus would be “ground breaking”


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## Jim Corbett (Oct 14, 2020)

Reading rumors like this, a whole damn year ahead of the release, is torture and leads to dehydration... 
P.S. Where is the drooling emoticon?


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## BroderLund (Oct 14, 2020)

Global electronic shutter? No need for mechanical shutter.


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## nchoh (Oct 14, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> Sounds promissing.
> 
> If AF is that „groundbreaking“ I think I‘ll wait for it to trickle through to the cheapo R5 II bodies


I'm waiting for it to trickle down to the M50.


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## VivaLasVegas (Oct 14, 2020)

If this “next level” AF can track hummingbirds and dragonflies with 80% hit rate, then I’m sold on their claim “next level” AF. Exciting times ahead for Canon Fans, seems like Canon is doubling down in product output during this pandemic.


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## H. Jones (Oct 14, 2020)

BroderLund said:


> Global electronic shutter? No need for mechanical shutter.



If I was Canon, I would advertise it as "the first MILC in the world to have an infinite shutter life" 

Jokes aside, that on its own would make even more of a perk for the 1-series. No moving parts means nothing could possibly break.

I do wonder--would Canon include a faux shutter to cover the sensor when not in use? That is a feature I've been a big fan of on my EOS R5, but I could see them removing the shutter altogether.


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## KeithBreazeal (Oct 14, 2020)

Needs an artificial shutter sound for those 50 fps bursts. Just stand next to a Sony or Nikon users and watch them drop to their knees. You'll have to spend more for cards than the camera.


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## amorse (Oct 14, 2020)

Sounds interesting! I wonder if there was truth to that 21MP sensor development rumour with a global shutter.

Question for those more knowledgeable in the room - considering that the 5DIV was able to actually produce output for each side of the dual pixel independently (which you could extract with additional software), I'm wondering if a quad-pixel system would be able to output 4 different outputs, or independently report values for 4 points on each pixel. If it was able to do so, I'm wondering if a 21MP sensor _could_ actually have a 4x resolution mode to bring it up to 84MP (i.e. treating each of the 4 quarters of each pixel as an independent pixel)? My thinking was maybe the "R1X" is both the sports camera and the rumoured high resolution body considering that both were rumoured for next year, and 84MP seems in line with past rumours. I'm assuming that would mess with the arrangement of a bayer array though, wouldn't it? Daydreaming to be fair.


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## KeithBreazeal (Oct 14, 2020)




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## dwarven (Oct 14, 2020)

BroderLund said:


> Global electronic shutter? No need for mechanical shutter.



If global shutters are the way of the future, I'll definitely miss the sound a mechanical one makes. I'd probably not buy a camera with global shutter for that reason alone. The sound and very slight vibration of a mechanical shutter are so satisfying to me, and are probably placebos for making me want to shoot more and get better shots.


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## Bahrd (Oct 14, 2020)

Nemorino said:


> Sounds like quad pixel AF.


I still wonder what has prevented Canon from alternating horizontally and vertically oriented Dual Pixels?


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## Traveler (Oct 14, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> I still wonder what has prevented Canon from alternating horizontally and vertically oriented Dual Pixels?


It could be much more difficult to manufacture such pattern. I'm not an expert though


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## BeenThere (Oct 14, 2020)

Ruiloba said:


> How can focus better than R5 and R6? It will focus even before you push the button? If focus where you point your eye in the evf? Lol


You just tell it what you want and send it out to take pictures.


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## bbasiaga (Oct 14, 2020)

As much as the R5 packs in over the 5Div, imagine that much more packed in over the 1DXiii....sheesh. Could really be something. The anticipation is exciting. 

Still, (pun only partially intended) this is the internet and some people's expectations will surely exceed whatever Canon eventually releases. There will be cries of disappointment and people lamenting that they 'have' to sell their perfectly good gear to switch systems because they are disappointed. 

-Brian


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## Mahk43 (Oct 14, 2020)

AcaPixus said:


> 8K - you must be kidding, 8K is so old fashioned! 16K more likely! Or perhaps just 8K with no heating issues ;-)



...and a lot of k $


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## navastronia (Oct 14, 2020)

A global shutter R1 would be *chef's kiss*


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## AJ (Oct 14, 2020)

Second half of 2021 will probably be after the Tokyo Olympic games, then.

I imagine this thing will have a large battery to power everything.


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## canonmike (Oct 14, 2020)

Ruiloba said:


> How can focus better than R5 and R6? It will focus even before you push the button? If focus where you point your eye in the evf? Lol


Always loved the eye focus control in my EOS 3 film bodies but doubt you will see it in R1 body. Never have understood why no bodies since the EOS 3 have had this great feature, employable when wanted.


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## Sibir Lupus (Oct 14, 2020)

nchoh said:


> I'm waiting for it to trickle down to the M50.



You'll be waiting a LONG time......


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## H. Jones (Oct 14, 2020)

AJ said:


> Second half of 2021 will probably be after the Tokyo Olympic games, then.
> 
> I imagine this thing will have a large battery to power everything.



I suspect Canon will pack new tech into the LP-E19 form factor, but I honestly would have no issues if Canon went back to the longer form factor of earlier 1D batteries:



I would much rather have more battery life and a larger battery in a 1-series camera than a smaller battery and less battery life. But I know the LP-E19 form factor is as commonplace on the pro side of things as the LP-E6 is, so that's unlikely to change.


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## slclick (Oct 14, 2020)

marathonman said:


> And quad card slots.


don't forget Print Button


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## geffy (Oct 14, 2020)

This is the one that will win with the R5 and 6 consigned to the bin already squirreling away the funds with the new shift lenses promising a new standard its starting to look like clear-out for the new system if this is not perfect its game over for canon, yes it really will be *******


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## SteveC (Oct 14, 2020)

nchoh said:


> I'm waiting for it to trickle down to the M50.



Clearly, it will be in the M50-III.  Or at least that will be the rumor until it turns out it's actually not that much of an upgrade to the M50-II then you can get ready for dozens of people to shriek in outrage.


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## domo_p1000 (Oct 14, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Canon is ******* unless this does unlimited 8k 120p RAW with 10 stops IBIS and 16-bit DR


Surely it also needs to be pocket-sized and cost under $/£1000

Actually quite excited about the whole thing (and a little irritated... but I do love the 1DX3)


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## jam05 (Oct 14, 2020)

The Olympics is near the end of July. One can expect to see the device being used and or tested at that time.


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## domo_p1000 (Oct 14, 2020)

OK, so my first SLR... the T70 (the first T-Series Canon), followed by the T90 (the most advanced FD-mount camera).
Then... the EOS 620 (the second EOS camera), followed by the EOS 3 (the most advanced EOS film camera).
Then... the D30 (the first DSLR), followed (eventually) by the 1DX3 (the most advanced and EF camera).
I seem to have already missed the boat for the EOS R-Series, but perhaps jumping in on the R1... hmmmmmm!


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## Rivermist (Oct 14, 2020)

jam05 said:


> The Olympics is near the end of July. One can expect to see the device being used and or tested at that time.


That would make sense, together with the big whites announced a few days ago, the Olympics are of course subject to pandemic but if they go ahead July 2021 Canon can't miss the opportunity to show the R system as a full-fledged sport-oriented system, something they could not have done had the games gone ahead in 2020 as scheduled. All hands on deck I guess.


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## navastronia (Oct 14, 2020)

Rivermist said:


> That would make sense, together with the big whites announced a few days ago, the Olympics are of course subject to pandemic but if they go ahead July 2021 Canon can't miss the opportunity to show the R system as a full-fledged sport-oriented system, something they could not have done had the games gone ahead in 2020 as scheduled. All hands on deck I guess.



As I said in the previous thread, no one should forget that the 2022 _winter_ Olympics are coming in only 15 months. Why not have the R1 ready for those instead of scrambling to make the summer 2021 rescheduled pandemic games?


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## Rivermist (Oct 14, 2020)

navastronia said:


> As I said in the previous thread, no one should forget that the 2022 _winter_ Olympics are coming in only 15 months. Why not have the R1 ready for those instead of scrambling to make the summer 2021 rescheduled pandemic games?


Because (I live in South Texas) 70% of the planet has never seen snow or ice, and are pretty clueless about the various sports being showcased at winter olympics (their loss, I agree, I grew up on skis in Switzerland). Summer Olympics are much more popular. I found this online: "The 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver, Canada, were watched by 3.5 million people worldwide. The most recent summer games, held in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, drew in an audience of 3.6 billion viewers."


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## David - Sydney (Oct 14, 2020)

slclick said:


> don't forget Print Button


Frankly, I am annoyed that I can't reassign my "rate" button on my R5! I never rate my shots (YMMV) but it would be very useful in my underwater housing


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## David - Sydney (Oct 14, 2020)

My guess is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
- Global shutter (no mechanical shutter). Rolling shutter artifactys significantly better than current electronic shutter
- 45mp sensor with IBIS (IBIS can be turned off)
- 30fps electronic shutter burst with full tracking - perhaps with buffer ie not unlimited
- ~20mp on-the fly over sampled (no lossy compression/S-RAW) at full 30fps unlimited buffer. Best of both worlds.
- Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
- Unlimited 8k cinema raw lite internal recording
- 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
- No line skipping/pixel binning 4k/6k modes
- 29:59 recording limit 
- Clog3
- minimum 16fps using anti-flicker depending on frequency of the flicker lighting
- AF in very low light (quad pixel makes sense but would be equivalent to a 180mp sensor!)
- pixel shift high res stills
- 9+ megadot EFV with no blackout and fast refresh rates (at lease 120fps). >0.5" in size
- full sized HDMI 2.1 port (48G) or thunderbolt 3 USB-C or both
- Mini XLR audio option
- Ethernet port
- Flippy screen included. Won't be great for portrait recording but still needed I think. Weather sealing will need to be excellent though

This merges the 1D/R5 features with global shutter possibilities. Main differences are electronic processing/firmware and sensor. The 1D has always had excellent video capabilities and I would expect it to be similar for the R1

USD10k

Won't directly compete with cinema line due to form factor but there will be a similar specced cinema form factor with unlimited 8k raw option, heaps of buttons and vented/fan cooled. Cxxx option will be more expensive.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 14, 2020)

Rivermist said:


> Because (I live in South Texas) 70% of the planet has never seen snow or ice, and are pretty clueless about the various sports being showcased at winter olympics (their loss, I agree, I grew up on skis in Switzerland). Summer Olympics are much more popular. I found this online: "The 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver, Canada, were watched by 3.5 million people worldwide. The most recent summer games, held in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, drew in an audience of 3.6 billion viewers."


I can't imagine that only 3.5m people watched the winter olympics... maybe 3.5m within the US?
Won't be ready for the winter olympics as you can't see the big whites against the snow


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## Bert63 (Oct 14, 2020)

dwarven said:


> Hopefully Sigma will be coming to the rescue at some point.




As a wildlife shooter I've always been tempted by the Sigma 150-600 as well as the Tamron 150-600, but the image quality out of those lenses always leaves me wanting and I end up sticking with Canon's 100-400L II.

I know the guys that shoot the shorter glass get great results from the Sigma Art lenses. I wish Sigma would come up wit a 50-600 Art lens for the guys that are will to pay a little more for a really nice quality third party lens.


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## SteveC (Oct 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Frankly, I am annoyed that I can't reassign my "rate" button on my R5! I never rate my shots (YMMV) but it would be very useful in my underwater housing



But you CAN assign other buttons to do rating as well, in case you suddenly decide you need rating, and want to make up for lost time.


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## Etienne (Oct 15, 2020)

Well over a year until delivery. That sounds ground-breaking indeed, but that's a long way out.


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## Bdbtoys (Oct 15, 2020)

Global Shutter has me intrigued.


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## analoggrotto (Oct 15, 2020)

If canon brings global shutter to hand held cameras, there will be no air in the collective gasp to ask "what took you so long". 

Canon is playing chess.


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## analoggrotto (Oct 15, 2020)

Nemorino said:


> Sounds like quad pixel AF.



Simultaneous quad pixel readout for HDR, not unlike the R70?


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## Joules (Oct 15, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I wish Sigma would come up wit a 50-600 Art lens for the guys that are will to pay a little more for a really nice quality third party lens.


Well, there's the Sigma 60-600 mm Sports lens that is a bit better quality than the others you named from what I know. I suspect eventually, they'll do a follow up for mirrorless bodies.


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## navastronia (Oct 15, 2020)

Rivermist said:


> Because (I live in South Texas) 70% of the planet has never seen snow or ice, and are pretty clueless about the various sports being showcased at winter olympics (their loss, I agree, I grew up on skis in Switzerland). Summer Olympics are much more popular. I found this online: "The 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver, Canada, were watched by 3.5 million people worldwide. The most recent summer games, held in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, drew in an audience of 3.6 billion viewers."



According to USA Today and Variety, respectively, US Summer 2016 Olympics viewership, across all platforms, was 27.5 million, and for the Winter 2018 Olympics, 17.8 million. That's a difference of about 35%, which is far less than the factor of 1000 that your numbers claim.

Having now researched Olympics viewership, I'm even more convinced that Canon would do well to showcase the R1 at the Winter 2022 Olympics.


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## HarryFilm (Oct 15, 2020)

navastronia said:


> According to USA Today and Variety, respectively, US Summer 2016 Olympics viewership, across all platforms, was 27.5 million, and for the Winter 2018 Olympics, 17.8 million. That's a difference of about 35%, which is far less than the factor of 1000 that your numbers claim.
> 
> Having now researched Olympics viewership, I'm even more convinced that Canon would do well to showcase the R1 at the Winter 2022 Olympics.



===

Statista.com ( a decent quality and newsworthy statistics site) says that the 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver and Whistler, Canada (I live in Vancouver and Ski in Whistler often!) had a global TV and Online audience of 1.82 Billion People while the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympic games has a global TV and Online audience of 2.1 Billion Viewers.

---

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There! I just blabbed it out for the world to see!

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Apple has a DCI 8K 120 fps 16 bits per channel Global Shutter MF Stills/Video camera (64-bit colour RGBA/YCbCrA with IR-based Kinect-like Alpha channel 3D distance measurement for all pixels and current GPS/3D-XYZ Orientation and Lens Metadata for every video frame and still photo!).

It has a whole set of VERY high-end stabilized Apple-branded prime and zoom and wide/telephoto lenses coming out! AND an Apple A12+ ARM-based super-chip is being PUT INTO The camera and phones for real-time computational imaging that will OUTPERFORM anything on the market and end-users CAN ADD NEW REAL-TIME and DELAYED STILL PHOTO and VIDEO PROCESSING FUNCTIONALITY for both the super-smartphones and the MF GS camera via an easy-to-use SDK!

Apple has one FULLY-ENCLOSED office-ready, small 300mm by 300mm by 300mm 3D-XYZ Plastic Filament and one large fully-enclosed and office-ready 750mm by 750mm by 750mm cubic print area Metal Powder Deposition Printer and REALLY EASY-TO-USE 3D CAD/CAM/FEA software are also coming out soon after the cameras and super-smartphones! What Apple did with its Laserprinter and Desktop publishing systems is NOW coming out for the world of 3D-XYZ plastic filament and metal powder deposition printing!

Apple now has a 32 inch DCI 8K (8192 x 4320 pixel) 240 Hz production reference monitor with 16 bits per RGBA channel enhanced premium OLED output to match the new MF GS cameras and PRO-LEVEL computers coming out. It is nearly HALF the price of the super high end ENKI displays with 16-bits per channel image processing and output. AMD is the partner on a NEW 64-bit RGBA/YCbCrA pixel PRO-LEVEL graphics card to be used on the new OLED displays with proper 64-bit RGBA/YCbCrA 240 Hz drivers!

Apple now has an 83 Inch DCI 16K (16,284 by 8640 pixels) 120 Hz quad-input super-large display at 10 Bit REC.2020 HDR image processing allows four separate DCI 8K 120 fps video inputs OR one 16,284 by 8640 pixel desktop resolution at 120 Hz refresh at 10-bit HDR REC.2020 display using TWO attached GPUs for the new pro-level 64-bit colour workstation-class computers coming out that will BLOW AWAY the HP Z-series pro-level workstations in terms of actual performance and having very reasonable price levels for what you get!

THERE AGAIN !! It's all blabbed out for the world to know!

APPLE IS COMING FOR YA CANON !!!

YOU BETTER UP YOUR GAME cuz this behemoth Apple has SERIOUS MONEY and technical talent behind it and it is coming A LOT SOONER THAN YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE !!!!

V


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## Bert63 (Oct 15, 2020)

Joules said:


> Well, there's the Sigma 60-600 mm Sports lens that is a bit better quality than the others you named from what I know. I suspect eventually, they'll do a follow up for mirrorless bodies.



I’ve heard that too, but my primary set-up now is the R5 with the EOS-R as my secondary - all of my DSLRs are on the shelf as backups to my backup. All of my lenses from here on out will be native RF.

I’ve also heard that the adapted Sigma lenses aren’t as fast on the RF mount as they were on the EF mount.


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## dwarven (Oct 15, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> As a wildlife shooter I've always been tempted by the Sigma 150-600 as well as the Tamron 150-600, but the image quality out of those lenses always leaves me wanting and I end up sticking with Canon's 100-400L II.
> 
> I know the guys that shoot the shorter glass get great results from the Sigma Art lenses. I wish Sigma would come up wit a 50-600 Art lens for the guys that are will to pay a little more for a really nice quality third party lens.



I just rented a 100-400 f/5.6 II on Monday and the IQ difference between it and the Sigma version is negligible on the R6. Of course the Canon version focuses faster (but just barely), but it’s also bigger and heavier and 3x the cost. Maybe I’m the only one who thinks this, but I used them both on the same day in the same conditions. In some cases the Sigma IQ is better, believe it or not. I don’t know if that’s a result of the R6 sensor just being that good, or if I need to get my eyes checked. But I was expecting a lot more out of the Canon version. Sigma offers tremendous bang for your buck.

I also have the latest Sigma EF 70-200 f/2.8 that I bought for $1000 new, which easily matches the Canon 70-200 III at every metric. The only downside is it's a bit heavier than the Canon version. Maybe a few years ago 1st party was your only real option for a high quality lens, but these days it’s not so clear cut.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 15, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ===
> 
> Statista.com ( a decent quality and newsworthy statistics site) says that the 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver and Whistler, Canada (I live in Vancouver and Ski in Whistler often!) had a global TV and Online audience of 1.82 Billion People while the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympic games has a global TV and Online audience of 2.1 Billion Viewers.
> 
> ...


Too many cups of coffee today?
Apple may have all that but won't have the volume to make the pricing low and in general are not price leaders (iPhone SE is a bit different). I have an apple environment at home and it is worthwhile for me but there are limits to what I will spend (even with Canon!)
Disruption in the marketplace is to be expected these days. Let's enjoy the ride. 
Brands don't define everyone and we are free to choose what we buy.


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## esglord (Oct 15, 2020)

Automatically focuses on the hottest person in the room and applies digital defocused smoothing to the uglies?


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## lbeck (Oct 15, 2020)

I’ve been blown away by the R5’s autofocus system, it’s unlike anything I’ve used before and allows you to get a much better hit rate. If the R1 will have an even better autofocus system than the R5, you can count me in. I want one.


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## Mr Majestyk (Oct 15, 2020)

Please god not another lame 20MP sensor, global shutter or not. 30MP+ and then I'm very interested.

Global shutters have not been released until now for FF becuase DR is much worse than rolling shutter. Canon, Sony and Panasonic have patented different solutions for greatly improved DR so looks like Canon has finally got it ready for prime time. Wonder if it based on the previously released patent or they have something else up their sleeve. Or they could be like Nikon with the D6 and not really care about DR in the class of camera.


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## analoggrotto (Oct 15, 2020)

esglord said:


> Automatically focuses on the hottest person in the room and applies digital defocused smoothing to the uglies?


Only with the Instagram Influencer 5G Vibrating IBIS grip option.


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## chasingrealness (Oct 15, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Frankly, I am annoyed that I can't reassign my "rate" button on my R5! I never rate my shots (YMMV) but it would be very useful in my underwater housing


I only rate in editing so I agree with this. Let’s rally for firmware!


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## Rivermist (Oct 15, 2020)

navastronia said:


> According to USA Today and Variety, respectively, US Summer 2016 Olympics viewership, across all platforms, was 27.5 million, and for the Winter 2018 Olympics, 17.8 million. That's a difference of about 35%, which is far less than the factor of 1000 that your numbers claim.
> 
> Having now researched Olympics viewership, I'm even more convinced that Canon would do well to showcase the R1 at the Winter 2022 Olympics.


No contest my friend, I did a quick google and no issue with your numbers. However as a marketing professional, I would go for the differed 2021 summer Olympics if my product people tell me that they can have the right stuff ready for the event, a year is a lifetime on the world of technology. Which does not in any way preclude having a huge presence at the winter Olympics in 2022, with a 200-500 / 1.4x super zoom, an R1-mk2, you name it.


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## HarryFilm (Oct 15, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Too many cups of coffee today?
> Apple may have all that but won't have the volume to make the pricing low and in general are not price leaders (iPhone SE is a bit different). I have an apple environment at home and it is worthwhile for me but there are limits to what I will spend (even with Canon!)
> Disruption in the marketplace is to be expected these days. Let's enjoy the ride.
> Brands don't define everyone and we are free to choose what we buy.



---

Apple can sell 217+ MILLION iPhones in 2018 (stats from Statista.com) so I think they can make and sell a BOATLOAD of new MF cameras, high end lenses (I am GUESSING the prime and zoom lenses are likely to be finally produced by SIGMA in Japan or Samyang Optics in South Korea -- the MF Camera and 16-bits-per-channel OLED Display panels themselves are PROBABLY going to be both made by LG with Apple-modded Sony Global Shutter Sensors -- The large image sensor super-smartphones are probably going to be made by TMSC in Taiwan or India with Sony Exmor GS Sensors!)

Apple's 3D printers LIKELY MAY be made by MarkedForge in the USA itself. The 32 inch and 83 inch displays are probably being assembled by TSMC in USA (Texas or Arizona) or Mexico using 8K and 16k resolution LG panels. The new 64-bit RGBA AMD GPU Super-Workstations will likely be made in USA probably in California or Texas.

Prices will be HIGH for consumers but very reasonable for BUSINESSES which will be the NEXT NEW primary market! Apple is going after the around-15,000,000 small to medium engineering, manufacturing and design houses that are around the world and even IF it gets only 10% of the market, the cost on 1.5 million items at $25,000 PER YEAR is a $37.5 Billion USD initial market share in just the first year! 

And that market share COULD RISE to as much as $150 Billion+ Per Year by 2035! Those New Large Sensor Pro-level Super-Smartphones, MF Global Shutter Cameras+Lenses, the 3D Printers and the Apple-branded Plastic/Metal Powder Media is going to be near 60% of Apples Revenue by 2035! Apple+ Media Production and the lower-cost CONSUMER iPhones will then bulk out the rest of that revenue!

Canon is in FOR A REAL ROUGH RIDE once Apple BULKS UP with its pro-level media production and 3D printing products!

Those Large Sensor Super-Smartphones just themselves will KILL Canon's low-end M50 and Powershot camera market if they don't respond with more camera/lens features and better image quality at a better price. AND Canon NEEDS to get into Medium Format Sized pro-levels sensors at the $3500-to-$6000 price points --- An XC-20 MF style camera with a 65mm 60 fps 8K sensor non-overheating Global Shutter sensor WOULD work for that market! 

To compete with a MONSTER company like Apple though, Canon MUST get into ruggedized pro-level Large Sensor 5G Super-Smartphones that have 64-to-128 Gigabytes of SYSTEM RAM, 1 to 4 terabytes of Flash Storage AND a large 2/3rds inch, 1 inch or APS-C sensors that sell for less than $2000 USD and a cheaper but still rugged 32 gig System RAM and One TB flash storage with 2/3rds inch sensor 5G smartphone for $900 just might save them from Apple's coming onslaught of new gear!

Canon AND Sony are in danger of being WIPED OUT by upcoming Apple and Samsung Super-Mobile Phone and BIG SENSOR Camera Systems and THEY MUST RESPOND by Next Year!

Is Canon DOOOOOOOOOMED ????? 

I do must say that Apple IS coming fast so they BETTER RESPOND SOONER RATHER THAN LATER !!!!!!

V


----------



## PhotoGenerous (Oct 15, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Apple can sell 217+ MILLION iPhones in 2018 (stats from Statista.com) so I think they can make and sell a BOATLOAD of new MF cameras, high end lenses (I am GUESSING the prime and zoom lenses are likely to be finally produced by SIGMA in Japan or Samyang Optics in South Korea -- the MF Camera and 16-bits-per-channel OLED Display panels themselves are PROBABLY going to be both made by LG with Apple-modded Sony Global Shutter Sensors -- The large image sensor super-smartphones are probably going to be made by TMSC in Taiwan or India with Sony Exmor GS Sensors!)
> 
> ...



So was that a yes about the coffee?


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2020)

I guess I'll be the party pooper. The idea that an RF mount 1-series body form (which is a blessing and a curse) might be very attractive because it has a global shutter is to assume that the R5's rolling shutter is significant - and it's not. The R5 has about as much rolling shutter (slightly less in my tests) than the Sony A9 series. That the new camera would be limited in megapixels would be to fail to improve the one complaint that most have about the 1 series - a resolution roughly equivalent to the 1dx introduced in 2012. That'll be 10 years prior to this new release date. 

Personally, I'd much rather up the megapixels and suffer with the current, quite low, levels rolling shutter.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 15, 2020)

These specs are pretty disappointing.
They should come as a free firmware update to my M200 and that includes the full-frame sensor.


----------



## EVH237 (Oct 15, 2020)

If Canon doesn't have it in production for the 2021 Summer Olympics, they will have testing bodies for the Olympic photographers to test, push, give feedback and to generate excitement.


----------



## SecureGSM (Oct 15, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I guess I'll be the party pooper. The idea that an RF mount 1-series body form (which is a blessing and a curse) might be very attractive because it has a global shutter is to assume that the *R5's rolling shutter is significant - and it's not*. The R5 has about as much rolling shutter (slightly less in my tests) than the Sony A9 series. That the new camera would be limited in megapixels would be to fail to improve the one complaint that most have about the 1 series - a resolution roughly equivalent to the 1dx introduced in 2012. That'll be 10 years prior to this new release date.
> 
> Personally, I'd much rather up the megapixels and suffer with the current, quite low, levels rolling shutter.


there are other issues associated with the electronic first curtain and all electronic shutter: a weird bokeh appearance for a larger aperture lenses, limited usability in challenging lighting conditions (flickering light, etc. and my personal favourite: virtually unrestricted global shutter flash X-Sync speed.. Need 1/10000 X-Sync? yup, you got it


----------



## Ziz (Oct 15, 2020)

Maybe they're throwing in a LiDAR sensor to assist that AF


----------



## expatinasia (Oct 15, 2020)

Shouldn't it be called the Canon EOS 1R or even 1RX rather than the R1? I think so. Fits in with Canon's EOS ONE too.

No matter what it is called it is going to be an amazing camera. Will I upgrade? Probably not, depends on whether I need to buy new glass/sell my old stuff. Am hoping EF glass my come down in price as there are still a few I would like.......


----------



## tapanit (Oct 15, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> You just tell it what you want and send it out to take pictures.


And the next model will read your mind and do it without even being told.


----------



## henrus (Oct 15, 2020)

What is a global shutter?


----------



## Darecinema (Oct 15, 2020)

Ummmm. Which Canon camera is this: https://www.dji.com/mobile/rs-2?site=brandsite&from=homepage DJI has launched a new RS2 stabilizer and they show multiple Canon cameras being mounted on it but also a hybrid one that kind of looks like the C70 but also maybe the 1dx 3?


----------



## Darecinema (Oct 15, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> Ummmm. Which Canon camera is this: https://www.dji.com/mobile/rs-2?site=brandsite&from=homepage DJI has launched a new RS2 stabilizer and they show multiple Canon cameras being mounted on it but also a hybrid one that kind of looks like the C70 but also maybe the 1dx 3?


Nmind. Looks like they used R5, 1dxmkiii, c300iii. I thought for a second we may have had a leak on the c50...oh well. Definitely getting that stabilizer though!!!


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 15, 2020)

I am really curious about the 'groundbreaking AF'. Admittedly I have not used the R5 yet but I cant help but wonder how it can be improved upon(from everything I have heard about it).


----------



## Danglin52 (Oct 15, 2020)

After shooting the R5 & R6 in YNP/GNTP for the last 16 days, I want to add a few things to the previous posters list (below)

Much better battery life
"Always ON" EVF and ready to shoot (I know this contradicts item 1)
Faster, smoother, higher resolution EVF for tracking action (should be part of a 1dx comparable MLC)
Assignable audio for each frame capture of the electronic shutter vs flashing frame which I find distracting
Slightly smear AI for the "groundbreaking AF" and better support for eye tracking with long lenses.
AF ability to identify and focus through obstructions on the eye (grease, tree branches, leaves, etc).
Better dynamic range and handling of dark areas for high contrast, bright situations. 
I will add, I really liked shooting with the R5 and have no regrets selling my 1dx II. I am not quite as happy with the 100-500 when used with at the 1.4x TC. Extending the lens to 300 mm before adding the converter and limited to 420-700mm can be an issue with animals on the move and changing distance. I kept my 100-400 II with the intent to sell after testing the 100-500. I am very happy with the performance of the 100-500, but feel I need a second camera with my 100-400 II when I am using the 100-500 with the 1.4x TC. In my view, the ability to use 500-700 mm on the 100-500 is awesome, but it comes with the price of flexibility on the 100-420mm range when shooting with the 1.4x TC. 

"My guess is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
- Global shutter (no mechanical shutter). Rolling shutter artifactys significantly better than current electronic shutter
- 45mp sensor with IBIS (IBIS can be turned off)
- 30fps electronic shutter burst with full tracking - perhaps with buffer ie not unlimited
- ~20mp on-the fly over sampled (no lossy compression/S-RAW) at full 30fps unlimited buffer. Best of both worlds.
- Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
- Unlimited 8k cinema raw lite internal recording
- 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
- No line skipping/pixel binning 4k/6k modes
- 29:59 recording limit 
- Clog3
- minimum 16fps using anti-flicker depending on frequency of the flicker lighting
- AF in very low light (quad pixel makes sense but would be equivalent to a 180mp sensor!)
- pixel shift high res stills
- 9+ megadot EFV with no blackout and fast refresh rates (at lease 120fps). >0.5" in size
- full sized HDMI 2.1 port (48G) or thunderbolt 3 USB-C or both
- Mini XLR audio option
- Ethernet port
- Flippy screen included. Won't be great for portrait recording but still needed I think. Weather sealing will need to be excellent though"


----------



## masterpix (Oct 15, 2020)

Well, higher dynamic range than anything seen before, much reduced noise in the higher ISO, 30FPS stills, about 25-30MP sensor, Eye tracking focus chooser. (IS and IBIS are already there) As for video, I am not sure Canon need to spend much over it, these cameras are made for action stills, not video. If you do want video for video, get a professional video camera. And yes.. under 1000$..


----------



## GoldWing (Oct 15, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



This could prompt the MKIII / MKII shooters to make the jump if


It's at least 45MP's
It's at least 12fps RAW
Better Sealing
If I fill the frame I want distinct hair stands, blackheads, pimples and facial hair vs. wax
Better DR
Dual Same Media - I could give you 100 reasons - I'd prefer CFExpress
Ability to bracket from spot to eval - Sports shooters who shoot outdoors will bow to you
Better color, not saying it has to be Fuji 16bit or Hasselblad but it's time to up the game
Sports Photogs can't shoot tethered to a PC on the field, shooting over the bow of a boat or squatting next to jump for dirt bikes. I'd love a 2TB - External Drive with a sealed connection
Ability to control my Canon flashes and some strobes from my camera with the ability to download the Profoto, Elinchrom or Godox or Broncolor codes
As in #6 - Canon Professional Workflow to include camera profile, color check, PC calibration, post production to a printer.
Auto MA - If I have to buy a new 2.8 300 & 400 & 70-200 & 24-70 & 85 as least have the body mate with the lens.
Since we won't have a mirror box, give CPS Platinum members other incentives as we'll be using the 10 C&C's less frequently
Wi-fi connectivity that does not stink. Better and more intuitive user interface
Collars for our big whites with enough space and better-designed feet to grip for our big hands. To those of us who shoot hand held with 300's and 400's on the sidelines with no mono or tripod, on the back of a boat, it would be a HUGE help 
Last but not least, I'm in love with an OVF and shoot in very bright sun in stadiums or America's Cup - If can't follow and see in all conditions as I can with an OVF, all bets are off.
17. Selfish request. We're getting older need a tiny bit more than +3.... I'm just asking.... The eyes are getting weaker but the heart is still strong! Would hate to have to wear glasses to shoot, need that seal of the eye to the cup in the sun and at sunset  

18.And please don't cripple the camera for Video - You should sell a kit for those coming over from !D


Two Bodies
300mm 400mm 70-200mm 24-70mm 85mm
4 Batteries with extra caps
CFReader
Chargers
I'll bet if you priced this kit competitively as a clear discount to buying everything separately, a lot of us would buy at least one kit to start. 

Best to all.... 

Of 1 to 19... Wonder if I'll get one of them??????


----------



## Del Paso (Oct 15, 2020)

PhotoGenerous said:


> So was that a yes about the coffee?


I guess he rather had a huge, an enormous caffe-corretto (with more "corretto" than caffe)


----------



## masterpix (Oct 15, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> View attachment 193348


I am no fire-investigator or police-detective but that is a VERY criminal look on her face...


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 15, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> After shooting the R5 & R6 in YNP/GNTP for the last 16 days


Yellowstone or Yosemite?


----------



## adigoks (Oct 15, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> After shooting the R5 & R6 in YNP/GNTP for the last 16 days, I want to add a few things to the previous posters list (below)
> 
> Much better battery life
> "Always ON" EVF and ready to shoot (I know this contradicts item 1)
> ...


very optimistic wishes indeed. 
here some of my thought
1. as previous rumors stated "new global shutter FF sensor with 20 MP". it makes 45MP and global shutter wouldn't be put together. 
2. anti flicker is no longer needed when using global shutter
3. mini XLR addon would be nice
4. flippy screen in 1D body is kinda weird. but its pretty welcome improvement if they did.


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 15, 2020)

GoldWing said:


> This could prompt the MKIII / MKII shooters to make the jump if
> 
> It's at least 45MP's



Uh, you know Canon asked pros about the resolution and they deemed 20MP is good enough for the 1DX3? I highly doubt many of them suddenly want more than double that. Something like 30MP, sure.


> Better Sealing



How much better can you can even get while still having a gaping hole in the camera where the lens goes?



> If I fill the frame I want distinct hair stands, blackheads, pimples and facial hair vs. wax



If you mean JPEG output, adjust your Picture Style and NR. If you mean RAW, I don't know what you're talking about.



> Sports Photogs can't shoot tethered to a PC on the field, shooting over the bow of a boat or squatting next to jump for dirt bikes. I'd love a 2TB - External Drive with a sealed connection



2TB CFExpress cards are already a thing.



> Auto MA - If I have to buy a new 2.8 300 & 400 & 70-200 & 24-70 & 85 as least have the body mate with the lens



If you mean AFMA, mirrorless cameras don't need that in the first place.


----------



## TracerHD (Oct 15, 2020)

My first expectations:
R1 - Global Shutter - 21MP Quad Pixel Mode - 42MP Dual Pixel Mode - Screen like R5 with more resolution - more EVF resolution - battery grip built in - battery with more capacity like previous 1-Cameras - larger top OLED Display than R5 - Sensor protected by Mechanical Shutter when changing Lenses - ...


----------



## Kit. (Oct 15, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> I still wonder what has prevented Canon from alternating horizontally and vertically oriented Dual Pixels?


It won't produce pixel-sharp focusing.


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 15, 2020)

Kit. said:


> It won't produce pixel-sharp focusing.


That's what I suspected, but... How Sony manages to have a pixel sharp images then?


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 15, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> I still wonder what has prevented Canon from alternating horizontally and vertically oriented Dual Pixels?



Not an IC engineer, but I presume fabbing such a thing is much trickier, especially the wiring. Also readout and analysis of the phase data gets more complicated.


----------



## Rzrsharp (Oct 15, 2020)

Time to wait for R5 MK II now.

It will be released 3 months after R1.

R5 MK II has a global shutter sensor and suerb AF system borrowed from R1.

R5 MK II will make R5 like a lame duck.


----------



## Rzrsharp (Oct 15, 2020)

Ruiloba said:


> How can focus better than R5 and R6? It will focus even before you push the button? If focus where you point your eye in the evf? Lol


1) less EVF lag. Users will point the lens at subjects tighter but behind. 
Manufacturer will unclose the evf lag data if it is really short enough. 
2) Recognize more subjects, eg, more kind of animal eyes, flowers stigmas.
3) Tracking multiple AF subjects even when one of them is activated.


----------



## Franklyok (Oct 15, 2020)

The reason we are reading those leaks and ruomors is because RED has released global shutter 6k beast. 

Canin users please do not upgrade to RED.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 15, 2020)

henrus said:


> What is a global shutter?


A rolling shutter is when the electronic shutter exposes the sensor one line at a time.
A global shutter is when the sensor is read completely in a single pass.
Rolling shutter can lead to artifacts if the light is changing, there are fast-moving subjects or the camera is moving.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 15, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> 2TB CFExpress cards are already a thing.


4 TB CFExpress cards are a thing


----------



## cayenne (Oct 15, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Apple can sell 217+ MILLION iPhones in 2018 (stats from Statista.com) so I think they can make and sell a BOATLOAD of new MF cameras, high end lenses (I am GUESSING the prime and zoom lenses are likely to be finally produced by SIGMA in Japan or Samyang Optics in South Korea -- the MF Camera and 16-bits-per-channel OLED Display panels themselves are PROBABLY going to be both made by LG with Apple-modded Sony Global Shutter Sensors -- The large image sensor super-smartphones are probably going to be made by TMSC in Taiwan or India with Sony Exmor GS Sensors!)
> 
> ...



Ok I'll bite.

Any ETA (year?) on when such Apple high end camera would make an appearance?

C


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 15, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> Canon AND Sony are in danger of being WIPED OUT by upcoming Apple and Samsung Super-Mobile Phone and BIG SENSOR Camera Systems and THEY MUST RESPOND by Next Year!


Sony makes quite a lot of phone camera sensors.
I am guessing they make a lot more money doing that than they do selling cameras.
Neither Canon nor Sony need to sell cameras to survive.


----------



## degos (Oct 15, 2020)

SwissFrank said:


> It starts and stops "exposing" all pixels at the same time. Without this you get an effect called "rolling shutter." Note it's a little confusing: GLOBAL shutter is a type of or PROPERTY of an electronic sensor, while ROLLING shutter is the EFFECT of not having it.



All curtain-shutter cameras suffer from rolling shutter when panning or recording an object with angular momentum. Film or digital, doesn't matter. Aerial cameras use belted slit shutters instead to avoid this.

All mirrorless cameras suffer from readout smearing under the same circumstances, unless they have a global shutter

They have similar effects but different causes


----------



## degos (Oct 15, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Uh, you know Canon asked pros about the resolution and they deemed 20MP is good enough for the 1DX3?



They didn't ask me and I've been shooting with the series since the 1D3. They also didn't ask my acquaintances at the local newspaper. Do you know anyone they asked?

Canon traditionally define their products with the technology that is mature for that tier, not customer requests.


----------



## usern4cr (Oct 15, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> I still wonder what has prevented Canon from alternating horizontally and vertically oriented Dual Pixels?


I will 2nd this! Their current dual pixels are all arranged in only 1 orientation, and as a result if you have only perfectly horizontal lines hitting the sensor then it can't detect anything to AF with. If every other line was vertically oriented then the camera could sense AF in both directions which would drastically improve AF ability and speed. It seems such an obvious choice to do that I'm surprised that they didn't do this already.

The only practical problem I could see is if the width of the different oriented dual pixel is different from the standard one then they couldn't pack the exact same number of pixels in the same width for the 2 styles of lines. If so, then maybe they could have a herring-bone style where each line has an alternating vertical and horizontal dual pixel, with each line shifting the choice by a pixel so the lines fit together like a puzzle. I'm sure that they've thought of all this, which might explain why it hasn't been done yet.


----------



## BroderLund (Oct 15, 2020)

If not global shutter, then maybe a versjon of the DGO sensor from the C300 III/C70 would be pretty cool. It's tech that Canon already has. Global shutter is not as common in the Canon world.


----------



## usern4cr (Oct 15, 2020)

navastronia said:


> According to USA Today and Variety, respectively, US Summer 2016 Olympics viewership, across all platforms, was 27.5 million, and for the Winter 2018 Olympics, 17.8 million. That's a difference of about 35%, which is far less than the factor of 1000 that your numbers claim.
> 
> Having now researched Olympics viewership, I'm even more convinced that Canon would do well to showcase the R1 at the Winter 2022 Olympics.


Thanks, Navastonia, for this info. I hadn't thought of the Winter Olympics as a time to focus on for R1 introduction, but it certainly means it is possible. If I was Canon, I'd try to have the R1 ready for the experts to use in the summer Olympics so the hype could be used to sell it afterwards, while knowing if there's a delay then you have 6 (or so) months extra to get it out for the Winter Olympics instead. It's perfect! It also gives you 6 more months to deliver more lenses (especially big whites) to hype during the Winter Olympics that couldn't get out in time for the Summer Olympics.


----------



## usern4cr (Oct 15, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ===
> 
> Statista.com ( a decent quality and newsworthy statistics site) says that the 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver and Whistler, Canada (I live in Vancouver and Ski in Whistler often!) had a global TV and Online audience of 1.82 Billion People while the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympic games has a global TV and Online audience of 2.1 Billion Viewers.
> 
> ...


Welcome back Harry! It's always fun to hear what you're able to "come up with" next time.


----------



## usern4cr (Oct 15, 2020)

If the R1 has a global shutter and no mechanical one, then it will start a new day for mirrorless cameras from the leaders, but what effect on IQ and dynamic range will there be? I wouldn't be surprised if the R1 has it with only a 20-ish MP sensor for ideal 4K video footage and professional stills use, but as a primarily (non-professional) landscape user, anything less than 45MP would be a step down for me. If they are able to have a 45MP global shutter then I would be very interested. But I still prefer a smaller camera without an embedded vertical grip, so I'd still be hoping that they have a version of it without the vertical grip (which they probably won't have for quite a while).

I could see them adding their neutral density filter option in front of the global shutter sensor to protect it when not in use as well as having the benefit of neutral density filters. I've always wished they could have an auto-rotatable CPOL filter they could optionally insert like their neutral density filter, but that's probably more of a wishful dream than something they ever do - If they ever did this then they'd probably need the extra room that a taller body with vertical grip affords, and that would be a good enough reason for me to eagerly accept the larger size body.

As far as the flip out screen on a vertically gripped R1, why can't they have a much larger flippy LCD on it, since there's extra room back there? Maybe they could replace buttons with good touch screen ones and so more (or all) of the back width could be part of the back screen. Or maybe use all of the back width for a wider aspect ratio flippy screen and move the buttons above & below the bigger screen, since there's so much more vertical room?


----------



## Joules (Oct 15, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> That's what I suspected, but... How Sony manages to have a pixel sharp images then?


Which Sony sensors use a dual pixel design?


----------



## Joules (Oct 15, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> I still wonder what has prevented Canon from alternating horizontally and vertically oriented Dual Pixels?


Also, good timing to ask that question 









Patent: Quad pixel AF sensor #EOSR1


Canon News has uncovered another Quad Pixel Autofocus (QPAF) sensor patent. Canon News breaks down why QPAF should be coming in the future. Right now with d



www.canonrumors.com


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 15, 2020)

Joules said:


> Which Sony sensors use a dual pixel design?


They use half-masked pixels I suppose. If so, the left- and right-half masked pixels are intertwined?


----------



## usern4cr (Oct 15, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> They use half-masked pixels I suppose. If so, the left- and right-half masked pixels are intertwined?


I believe that most of the previous cameras have used a relatively small number of "phase detect pixels" embedded within their sensors. Those are special circuitry for horizontal detection, or vertical detection, or some are for both. That's why they always hyped how many "AF points" they had. Since those AF points required room (probably larger than a single pixel), those areas might (I've heard sometimes) have no (or less) normal pixel sensing at those points and so their software had to do extra interpolation to get RGB information from neighboring areas to fill the holes.

I assume (but am not sure) that Canon was the first to have dual-pixels in the entire sensor. But by making them all in one orientation only, they had a weakness in unusual (horizontal line/area only images) that older sensors with dual orientation AP points could better handle. Thus their desire to fix the problem with quad-pixels for the entire sensor that sense both directions and thus sense all orientations just fine.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 15, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> That's what I suspected, but... How Sony manages to have a pixel sharp images then?


Sony sensors also detect only horizontal contrast.



EOS 4 Life said:


> A rolling shutter is when the electronic shutter exposes the sensor one line at a time.
> A global shutter is when the sensor is read completely in a single pass.


Not true.


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 15, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Sony sensors also detect only horizontal contrast.


Yes, but to do so, they need alternating left and right half-masked pixels. And we wonder why Canon do not follow this pattern with horizontal and vertical Dual Pixels.


----------



## GoldWing (Oct 15, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Without an OVF... Count me out


----------



## Danglin52 (Oct 16, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> Yellowstone or Yosemite?


Yellowstone National Park. We were there 9/27-10/13. We were supposed to return home on 10/10, but extended to catch snow and a drop in temps the night of 10/10. Great decision, got significant drop in terms with light snow which had wildlife out moving around on 10/11, seeing pretty much everything including Great Gray, Griz + cub, and a black wolf at 70yds to end the day. R5 is great, no regrets moving from 1dx II. I do miss my 200-400 f4, but the 100-500 is a dream to carry. I don't like the way it works with an extender - 700mm is great but tremendous loss of versatility. I am keeping my 100-400 to put on a second body when I have the extender on the 100-500. If you don't have the R5, buy the grip and an 2 extra sets of batteries if you are on a trip with a lot of shooting. The EVF instant on / always available needs to be addressed in the R1 for a true 1dx II/III replacement.


----------



## GoldWing (Oct 16, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Uh, you know Canon asked pros about the resolution and they deemed 20MP is good enough for the 1DX3? I highly doubt many of them suddenly want more than double that. Something like 30MP, sure.
> 
> 
> *I am a pro. *
> ...


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 16, 2020)

Thank you @Danglin52 !
Nice nature pictures - they make me want to go there...

PS
The barn at the landscape 6/80 photo is quite famous, I suppose (first time saw it in a Wikipedia article about the YCbCr color space.


----------



## Danglin52 (Oct 16, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> Thank you @Danglin52 !
> Nice nature pictures - they make me want to go there...
> 
> PS
> The barn at the landscape 6/80 photo is quite famous, I suppose (first time saw it in a Wikipedia article about the YCbCr color space.


Thank you. That barn is probably one of the most photographed structures in the world. I actually used a 600mm f4 L lens to take the shot so that I could get compression of the background. The mountains are probably 6-7 miles behind the barn.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 16, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Yellowstone National Park. We were there 9/27-10/13. We were supposed to return home on 10/10, but extended to catch snow and a drop in temps the night of 10/10. Great decision, got significant drop in terms with light snow which had wildlife out moving around on 10/11, seeing pretty much everything including Great Gray, Griz + cub, and a black wolf at 70yds to end the day. R5 is great, no regrets moving from 1dx II. I do miss my 200-400 f4, but the 100-500 is a dream to carry. I don't like the way it works with an extender - 700mm is great but tremendous loss of versatility. I am keeping my 100-400 to put on a second body when I have the extender on the 100-500. If you don't have the R5, buy the grip and an 2 extra sets of batteries if you are on a trip with a lot of shooting. The EVF instant on / always available needs to be addressed in the R1 for a true 1dx II/III replacement.



I was at Yellowstone on the 26th, so we managed between the two of us to put an R5 there that entire weekend.


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## vangelismm (Oct 16, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> I still wonder what has prevented Canon from alternating horizontally and vertically oriented Dual Pixels?



I think would be more slow and expensive to make the sensor.


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## GoldWing (Oct 16, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Please god not another lame 20MP sensor, global shutter or not. 30MP+ and then I'm very interested.
> 
> Global shutters have not been released until now for FF becuase DR is much worse than rolling shutter. Canon, Sony and Panasonic have patented different solutions for greatly improved DR so looks like Canon has finally got it ready for prime time. Wonder if it based on the previously released patent or they have something else up their sleeve. Or they could be like Nikon with the D6 and not really care about DR in the class of camera.


Dont count on it. Someone at Canon is into releasing cameras before they are ready. Cripple the first release, get the bugs out repeat.


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## canonmike (Oct 16, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Yellowstone National Park. We were there 9/27-10/13. We were supposed to return home on 10/10, but extended to catch snow and a drop in temps the night of 10/10. Great decision, got significant drop in terms with light snow which had wildlife out moving around on 10/11, seeing pretty much everything including Great Gray, Griz + cub, and a black wolf at 70yds to end the day. R5 is great, no regrets moving from 1dx II. I do miss my 200-400 f4, but the 100-500 is a dream to carry. I don't like the way it works with an extender - 700mm is great but tremendous loss of versatility. I am keeping my 100-400 to put on a second body when I have the extender on the 100-500. If you don't have the R5, buy the grip and an 2 extra sets of batteries if you are on a trip with a lot of shooting. The EVF instant on / always available needs to be addressed in the R1 for a true 1dx II/III replacement.


A great collection of photos. Thx for sharing them with us. Can you share your cam and lens data that most of them were shot with, with us?


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## Bahrd (Oct 16, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Not an IC engineer, but I presume fabbing such a thing is much trickier, especially the wiring. Also readout and analysis of the phase data gets more complicated.





vangelismm said:


> I think would be more slow and expensive to make the sensor.


But... Would it be slower/more expensive/trickier than the Quad Pixel?


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## Mikehit (Oct 16, 2020)

I am not sure these specs add up for a flagship camera body.

As I understand it, on Canon's current DP sensors the focus-half of the pixel is not used in image generation but additional software can take the data from that half of the pixel to increase DR by up to a stop. So looking at Quad-Pixel, the technology will probably reduce DR in the same way (half to one stop maybe). And if I understand correctly, global shutter will also reduce DR by up to a stop. 
This means that if the R1 is not to lose image quality or ISO performance, then Canon would have had to have developed a sensor that will have an inherent 1.5-2 stops advantage over their current sensor technology. Or they have improved DR a bit and improved the processing capabilities such that they can actually use the data from the focussing pixely-bits. 
Either would present significant leaps in sensor performance - and IMO would be beyond the sort of leap Canon has done so far. 

And on top of this, people are asking for an increase to 30-45 MP.


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## HarryFilm (Oct 16, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Ok I'll bite.
> 
> Any ETA (year?) on when such Apple high end camera would make an appearance?
> 
> C



===

The MF camera is sitting on my desk at this very moment! (i.e. it's probably A VERY BAD IDEA for me to admit that on a public forum but anyways ....!!! )

but otherwise I am BEGINNING TO BELIEVE the 3D printers and New 64-bit RGBA colour super-workstations are coming first BASED UPON rumours heard within Apple itself.

V


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## HarryFilm (Oct 16, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Sony makes quite a lot of phone camera sensors.
> I am guessing they make a lot more money doing that than they do selling cameras.
> Neither Canon nor Sony need to sell cameras to survive.



---

True! Canon makes a LOT of money on medical optics, copy/printing machines and micro-precision manufacturing systems so they COULD survive without the consumer camera and lens division quite easily. Same with Sony! With them being part of the Mitsui Keiretsu they have ENORMOUS ENGINEERING, INDUSTRIAL and BANKING RESOURCES available to them if anything goes wrong on the sales side. They're biggest moneymaker is Playstation Services and Image Sensors divisions. The NEW Apple super smartphones AND Apple MF camera ALL use low-light capable Sony Exmor-style Global Shutter sensors (i.e. expensive BUT VERY VERY GOOD IMAGE QUALITY!) 

The problem is that Apple IS cannibalizing Sony pro imaging sales and even their consumer goods divisions via iPhone and iPad. Only Sony Sensors is really making any money and ONCE APPLE creates and builds their OWN image sensor (i.e. that internal rumour is RAMPANT around here!) they can cut Sony out completely! Apple did that with Qualcomm and Intel, so THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN take out Sony's sensor division with their OWN IMAGING HARDWARE !!! 

These new large sensor Super-Smartphones using Sony GS sensors is merely buying APPLE ENOUGH TIME to develop their OWN 8K+ CMOS image sensors. I should also note the 32 inch OLED is being modified heavily BY Apple from an LG display and the internal rumour mill has it that Apple may open THEIR OWN DISPLAY MANUFACTURING FACILITY in Texas or Arizona to build customized and VERY HIGH END OLED displays. Do note they have within the last 10 years bought or licenced OLED/LED display power management, colour management and display manufacturing systems patent portfolios from Philips, Nokia, NEC and even Eizo!

Apple has been VERY BUSY these last 18 months! Very Secretive AND VERY BUSY on the imaging, display and 3D printing side of things!

V


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## Joules (Oct 16, 2020)

Mikehit said:


> As I understand it, on Canon's current DP sensors the focus-half of the pixel is not used in image generation


I think your premise there is simply not matching what's actually going on. It would be news to me if the image signal of each pixel wasn't just the sum of the two half-pixels' values.


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## Danglin52 (Oct 16, 2020)

canonmike said:


> A great collection of photos. Thx for sharing them with us. Can you share your cam and lens data that most of them were shot with, with us?


Thank you. They were all shot with Canon gear. I have been shooting Canon since 2003 and went the full route of 10d-20d, 1ds, 5d - 5d IV and 1dx (rented for big trips) through 2016. I purchased the 1dx II & 5d IV when announced and those have been my primary bodies until I purchased the R5 in July. I have always invested in glass with a preference for the flexibility of zooms 24-70 I & II, 70-200 I & II, 100-400 I & II, 1.4x TC II/III, 2x TC II/III (when needed). I had the original 600mm F4, but sold it after 3 years due to the weight (almost 14lbs). The Africa photos are predominately 200-400 f4 L IS w/1.4x TC - rented for the first Africa trip until I purchased a factory refurb at the end of 2016 (great price). I have rented lenses like the 500 & 600 I/II for trips where I knew my owned lenses would not give me enough reach. I would say the quality of the glass has been the most significant contributor to the quality of the images w/ sensor second and the zooms have improved significantly over time. The glass is one of the reasons I have stayed with Canon even when there have been better sensor/body options on the market. I think other vendors have rounded out their glass either natively or 3rd party and Canon doesn't have quite as much edge. I sold my 200-400 because I wanted to reduce weight, but would buy back in for a 200-500(600) f5.6 @ 6lbs (my wish list). I believe the 200-400 w/integrated 1.4x is the most versatile and high quality wildlife/safari lenses on the planet because you are f4 f200-400 and with the flip of switch 280-560 with a max f5.6. I was hoping the 200-400 would get the big white III weight loss program.


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## lawny13 (Oct 17, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> DR won’t be worse really but iso usually gets hurt. It will be interesting to see how this works. If they pull off good iso with a global shutter this could replace most low end cinema cameras. It will be interesting to see how they cripple this to protect other cameras. If they do 120fps around 4K with a global shutter you will see a lot of sad cinema camera owners, if they pull a 1dc and have no record limit with a global shutter and stellar iso performance above 12800 iso with 12 stops of DR all I can say is take my money



But so far with the R5 and R6 canon hasn't been crippling anything. 

Not to mention that from what I remember canon has NEVER crippled the 1DX line. It is literally their"throw everything including the kitchen sink camera" and they price it accordingly. With the C70 it is obvious that they can basically build a cinema oriented camera. Basically expected a non-crippled R1 followed by the a cinema camera build around that tech. Form factor does matter after all.


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## lawny13 (Oct 17, 2020)

Well... global shutter, quad pixel AF, and probably dual CPUs. That would pretty much give you ground braking AF. And of course the battery of the R1 form would allow for more power I would imagine. Expect dual CFE cards though.


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## NorskHest (Oct 17, 2020)

lawny13 said:


> But so far with the R5 and R6 canon hasn't been crippling anything.
> 
> Not to mention that from what I remember canon has NEVER crippled the 1DX line. It is literally their"throw everything including the kitchen sink camera" and they price it accordingly. With the C70 it is obvious that they can basically build a cinema oriented camera. Basically expected a non-crippled R1 followed by the a cinema camera build around that tech. Form factor does matter after all.


No unlimited record time is crippling. The fact if I want to record in 10 bit it’s automatically log when I don’t want log but just more information, 1dxii auto focus was crippled from the start. Mind you I own 2 1dcs a 1dxii and now mkiii. I use these products all the time. Well not the mkii anymore. I’m not a fan boy but I do love the dslr and I like many people are critical of canon for promising and not delivering. The r6 color profile is crippled, and I’m not going to even talk about my experience of the r5 because last time this whole page lost their minds.


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## canonmike (Oct 18, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Thank you. They were all shot with Canon gear. I have been shooting Canon since 2003 and went the full route of 10d-20d, 1ds, 5d - 5d IV and 1dx (rented for big trips) through 2016. I purchased the 1dx II & 5d IV when announced and those have been my primary bodies until I purchased the R5 in July. I have always invested in glass with a preference for the flexibility of zooms 24-70 I & II, 70-200 I & II, 100-400 I & II, 1.4x TC II/III, 2x TC II/III (when needed). I had the original 600mm F4, but sold it after 3 years due to the weight (almost 14lbs). The Africa photos are predominately 200-400 f4 L IS w/1.4x TC - rented for the first Africa trip until I purchased a factory refurb at the end of 2016 (great price). I have rented lenses like the 500 & 600 I/II for trips where I knew my owned lenses would not give me enough reach. I would say the quality of the glass has been the most significant contributor to the quality of the images w/ sensor second and the zooms have improved significantly over time. The glass is one of the reasons I have stayed with Canon even when there have been better sensor/body options on the market. I think other vendors have rounded out their glass either natively or 3rd party and Canon doesn't have quite as much edge. I sold my 200-400 because I wanted to reduce weight, but would buy back in for a 200-500(600) f5.6 @ 6lbs (my wish list). I believe the 200-400 w/integrated 1.4x is the most versatile and high quality wildlife/safari lenses on the planet because you are f4 f200-400 and with the flip of switch 280-560 with a max f5.6. I was hoping the 200-400 would get the big white III weight loss program.


A nice window into your Canon gear adjustments and acquistions over the years. They have served you well. Back in the 80's, I switched from Minolta to Canon, after going into my local camera store and playing with a Canon EF 300mm F4 L lens. I just couldn't believe how quiet and fast this new USM tech was. That day, I was instantly hooked and bought my first Canon bundle, an A2-E body and the impressive 300mm F4L. I have been a Canon user ever since, primarily because of their awsome glass. My first digital camera was the Canon 20D, which I picked up on a trip to the V.I. in 2004. I loved and used that camera for several yrs., before giving it to one of my nieces, who still uses it to this day. Thx for sharing your Canon time line and the photos.


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## Danglin52 (Oct 18, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> True! Canon makes a LOT of money on medical optics, copy/printing machines and micro-precision manufacturing systems so they COULD survive without the consumer camera and lens division quite easily. Same with Sony! With them being part of the Mitsui Keiretsu they have ENORMOUS ENGINEERING, INDUSTRIAL and BANKING RESOURCES available to them if anything goes wrong on the sales side. They're biggest moneymaker is Playstation Services and Image Sensors divisions. The NEW Apple super smartphones AND Apple MF camera ALL use low-light capable Sony Exmor-style Global Shutter sensors (i.e. expensive BUT VERY VERY GOOD IMAGE QUALITY!)
> 
> ...


Hope your dreams come true, I own stock!


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## oppfinnarn (Oct 18, 2020)

Ruiloba said:


> How can focus better than R5 and R6? It will focus even before you push the button? If focus where you point your eye in the evf? Lol



Did you know, this was actually a function in use on the EOS 3.. And that was an analog camera.. I wonder why it hasn’t shown up in digital cameras so far.. I mean, they stopped making the EOS 3 in 2003 or something..


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## oppfinnarn (Oct 18, 2020)

Bonich said:


> With dual lens mount to speed up work.



Yeah, one in each direction so that you just turn the camera around for a different focal length..


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## Michael Clark (Oct 18, 2020)

Rivermist said:


> Because (I live in South Texas) 70% of the planet has never seen snow or ice, and are pretty clueless about the various sports being showcased at winter olympics (their loss, I agree, I grew up on skis in Switzerland). Summer Olympics are much more popular. I found this online: "The 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver, Canada, were watched by 3.5 million people worldwide. The most recent summer games, held in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, drew in an audience of 3.6 billion viewers."



It's not just more interest and more viewers. It's also longer and has more events and venues.


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## SteveC (Oct 18, 2020)

Rivermist said:


> Because (I live in South Texas) 70% of the planet has never seen snow or ice, and are pretty clueless about the various sports being showcased at winter olympics (their loss, I agree, I grew up on skis in Switzerland). Summer Olympics are much more popular. I found this online: "The 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver, Canada, were watched by 3.5 million people worldwide. The most recent summer games, held in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, drew in an audience of 3.6 billion viewers."



3.6 billion (which was the entire population of planet Earth in the early 1970s!) versus 3.5 *million*? A better-than-thousandfold difference? Holy smokes.


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## Mikehit (Oct 19, 2020)

Joules said:


> I think your premise there is simply not matching what's actually going on. It would be news to me if the image signal of each pixel wasn't just the sum of the two half-pixels' values.



On the 5DIV that is certainly not the case - as evidenced by the fact that there is software out there that can use the data from both subframes and improve the dynamic range of the 5DIV by up to a stop. Unless something happened between the 5DIV and the EOS-R that I have not read about.


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## Mikehit (Oct 19, 2020)

oppfinnarn said:


> Did you know, this was actually a function in use on the EOS 3.. And that was an analog camera.. I wonder why it hasn’t shown up in digital cameras so far.. I mean, they stopped making the EOS 3 in 2003 or something..


Of what I remember the technology had very mixed reception - whether it was the use people put it to or variability in performance I don't know but even though many were not particularly impressed it certainly had its advocates .


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## Joules (Oct 20, 2020)

Mikehit said:


> On the 5DIV that is certainly not the case - as evidenced by the fact that there is software out there that can use the data from both subframes and improve the dynamic range of the 5DIV by up to a stop. Unless something happened between the 5DIV and the EOS-R that I have not read about.


Well, I think you are misunderstanding something. Your premise is that Dual Pixel architecture means Canon is throwing away half the light of each pixel, right?

Well, from my understanding of the dual raw format, it is actually using the fact that both the sum (which you would get in a regular CR2) and individual value of one of the halves is given. The halfes only have half the capacity, so they are essentially one stop underexposed compared to the sum. This is used in DPRAW extraction to gain 1 stop of highlight DR, by merging the single half value into the sum, where that is clipped. That's just my understanding.

A better proof that combination of the two halfes occurs is probably Canon themselves. Quote:

"During AF detection, the two halves of each pixel -- the two photodiodes -- send separate signals, which are analyzed for focus information. Then, an instant later when an actual image or video frame is recorded, the two separate signals from each pixel are combined into one single one, for image capturing purposes. This greatly improves AF speed over the majority of the area on which you’re focusing." - Source


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## Mikehit (Oct 20, 2020)

Joules said:


> Well, I think you are misunderstanding something. Your premise is that Dual Pixel architecture means Canon is throwing away half the light of each pixel, right?
> 
> Well, from my understanding of the dual raw format, it is actually using the fact that both the sum (which you would get in a regular CR2) and individual value of one of the halves is given. The halfes only have half the capacity, so they are essentially one stop underexposed compared to the sum. This is used in DPRAW extraction to gain 1 stop of highlight DR, by merging the single half value into the sum, where that is clipped. That's just my understanding.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your explanation - it seems your interpretation is correct. I have found a link that refers to the software I was thinking of (DRSplit). 








Increase Dynamic Range Of Canon 5D Mark IV By 1EV | You Can, Sort of, At A Price...


It's not ideal, but for times you absolutely need it...




www.slrlounge.com





It seems that it is taking advantage not of the dual pixel arrangement as such but the fact that in Dual Pixel mode, CR2 records two images and the software combines these two images. This seems more akin to a technique I have seen to reduce noise by taking two images and combining them in photoshop.


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## AEWest (Oct 21, 2020)

navastronia said:


> As I said in the previous thread, no one should forget that the 2022 _winter_ Olympics are coming in only 15 months. Why not have the R1 ready for those instead of scrambling to make the summer 2021 rescheduled pandemic games?


Or the 2022 World Cup


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## AEWest (Oct 21, 2020)

For what it's worth, I think it will be called the 1R, not R1. This is because there was already an R, so R1 may be a bit confusing. However, starting with the 1 denotes their top level spec'd camera, and then R denoting the RF mount.


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## Joules (Oct 21, 2020)

AEWest said:


> For what it's worth, I think it will be called the 1R, not R1. This is because there was already an R, so R1 may be a bit confusing. However, starting with the 1 denotes their top level spec'd camera, and then R denoting the RF mount.


Starting with the number also would mess up the naming convention established with the R6 and R5. Those aren't confusing either.

Canon seems to prefer going Mark something now for new models, as even the M line has adopted that with the M50 II and M6 II. So if that is a naming scheme they employ all around their lineup, nothing is confusing here.

The only bodies that got incremental numbers are the X0D and X00D (Rebel in US), and those may not see any more models.

Pre digital, Canon even had models without letters in the name at all in the EOS lineup.


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## canonmike (Oct 26, 2020)

I can only hope my CC's don't overheat just contemplating the announcement of this beast of a camera. It seems that the sleeping giant Canon finally tired of the Sony naysayers out there and continue to come out swinging. After watching many current, mostly overwhelming positive R5/R6 YT reviews, especially for photography, I am drooling in anticipation of a proline R body, whatever they end up calling it. I may not need it but I sure do want it. What a great time to be a Canon user.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 26, 2020)

AEWest said:


> For what it's worth, I think it will be called the 1R, not R1. This is because there was already an R, so R1 may be a bit confusing. However, starting with the 1 denotes their top level spec'd camera, and then R denoting the RF mount.


The M was the first model in the M line.
The R line is following the same convention.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 27, 2020)

Well I have an R5 on loan at the moment and whilst it is undoubtedly a fantastic camera coming from 20+ years of 1 series cameras it feels like a toy. Not saying it is a toy because it pretty much bests my 1DX II‘s in every metric apart from the viewfinder and battery life and build so far. Oh and damn all the buttons are in the wrong place and too close together!


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## masterpix (Oct 27, 2020)

slclick said:


> don't forget Print Button


And DVD burner as well


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## IR-Photo-Tours (Oct 29, 2020)

H. Jones said:


> Welp, sure looks like next year all of my EF glass and bodies are getting sold.
> 
> I thought this year was bad enough between the R5 and my RF glass, but with the R1 and all the new RF lenses, 2021 is going to be *expensive.*


EF glass is still stunning I am waiting for people like you to sell there ef glass at silly prices because that is what will happen , ef glass is already hitting a real low in price and I see it coming down much more, so all good for me because for me it is about end image quality and ef lenses have never failed me yet.


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## IR-Photo-Tours (Oct 29, 2020)

I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.


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## zim (Oct 29, 2020)

IR-Photo-Tours said:


> I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.


I hope your not implying that of H.Jones!


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## Nelu (Oct 30, 2020)

SteveC said:


> 3.6 billion (which was the entire population of planet Earth in the early 1970s!) versus 3.5 *million*? A better-than-thousandfold difference? Holy smokes.


He doesn't know what he's talking about!

Check this out:
Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games Global Television and Online Media Overview

_"Vancouver 2010 enjoyed the most extensive coverage ever produced for the Winter Games reaching
a record potential audience of *3.8 billion *people worldwide. 235 broadcasters and television stations
showed coverage of the Games in 220 territories."_


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## koenkooi (Oct 30, 2020)

Nelu said:


> He doesn't know what he's talking about!
> 
> Check this out:
> Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games Global Television and Online Media Overview
> ...



"Potential" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence


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## Joules (Oct 30, 2020)

IR-Photo-Tours said:


> I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.


What would you prefer? If manufacturers stopped offering improved options that make it easier to take sharp, well exposed images images under ever greater range of situations? In that case, there would be no incentive for 'photographers' to buy new products from them, unless they expand their lens collection (only possible to a certain degree for the vast majority) or something they own breaks. It would be an even more saturated market, and most manufacturers would probably collapse.

Also, don't be a gate keeper. Photography is a hobby. Sure, you can also do it professionally, but it's the tech enthusiasts and amateurs that are also driving a good amount of sales in the modern day and age. And they are diverse. Just because they appreciate having the camera ease some aspects of operation, like AF tracking or exposure, doesn't mean they don't enjoy the process of learning to improve their photography. And even if they don't, that should be just fine. Let them take their pictures! Don't use social media if you are allergic to casual photography


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## dolina (Oct 30, 2020)

IR-Photo-Tours said:


> I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.


The 1DX3 replacement is targeted to a different market than of the R5 or R6.

So if there will have a higher fps for still imagery then it has more to do with applications that require better control on the decisive moment.

This body will naturally cost more than $6,500


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## dolina (Oct 31, 2020)

It will cost more than $6,500

Continuous shooting will have an fps greater than 20 and a near inexhaustible buffer.

It may use CFExpress cards to be able to write 1-4GB/s of data.

Hopefully battery life would be equal to a 1D body.

Hopefully battery charging will use USB PD charging.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 1, 2020)

Not for


IR-Photo-Tours said:


> I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.


Not All of us. I am still getting great images with my 7d2, but I am about to compliment that with an R6(unfortunately the nearly 7k price tag for the R5 in Aus is just too much to justify), which will be my first new body for nearly 4 years and it while will be a worthy upgrade it wont make up for any lack of bushcraft when it comes to chasing wildlife


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## Karel (Nov 2, 2020)

Hi guys, I'm new here.
looking forward to R1. Hope it has 6K120fps 24Mpx sensor for movies and great dynamic range for photos and video.


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## cayenne (Nov 2, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> Not for
> 
> Not All of us. I am still getting great images with my 7d2, but I am about to compliment that with an R6(unfortunately the nearly 7k price tag for the R5 in Aus is just too much to justify), which will be my first new body for nearly 4 years and it while will be a worthy upgrade it wont make up for any lack of bushcraft when it comes to chasing wildlife



Hell, I'm still having fun capturing fun images on medium format FILM!!!


C


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## usern4cr (Nov 2, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Hell, I'm still having fun capturing fun images on medium format FILM!!!
> 
> 
> C


FILM? I look back in great fondness, ... but my kids just asked me "What's that?"


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## cayenne (Nov 4, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> FILM? I look back in great fondness, ... but my kids just asked me "What's that?"




Well, with Medium Format, you do have some interesting things...I like shooting on different formats....rather than cropping.

I like the square 6x6 format shots I shoot with my Hasselband V System 501 CM camera. 

Shooting FOR that composition makes a difference in how I shoot., plus its kinda fun the attention I get, I'll admit...when I have that or my Yashica Mat-124G TLR camera and people are curious as to what it is, etc...

I also have a Shen Hao dedicated 6x17 medium format view camera. It shoots wonderful panoramic.

I don't tend to shoot 35mm film as that well, I can regularly do that format with my digital. But with MF film, it is fun to shoot for natively different formats that you can get currently with digital.

And sure I know how to stitch digital for panoramas...but hard to do things on digital like shooting panoramic of water with a ND filter on, or capturing that wide a shot of birds flying, other things in motion in one shutter click.

Plus...well....the main reason is, it is FUN.

And isn't that last reason the most important one?


cayenne


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## GoldWing (Jan 18, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


My primary concerns are IQ, DR, Focus and color.
Could care less about Video.
Convince me an EVF can equal an OVF for pro and Olympic Sports.
Fuji and Hasselblad have superior color Canon needs to step it up.
It has to be at least 45MP's.
Dual same media.
Have bags of batteries and cards, Think of those who own 1DX 1DXII and 1DXIII.
If current kits are EF glass consisting of 35 50 24-70 70-200 300 400 200-400 and 3 Bodies. If Canon can't meet the specs we asked for, then we are not replacing the above mentioned kits.

Happy to spend budget that makes our agency better positioned.


----------

