# Canon Introduces the EOS M5 Digital Camera and its First EF-M High Power Zoom Lens



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 15, 2016)

```
<em>EOS M5 Camera Provides The Fastest Autofocus (AF) speed of EOS M-Series and a built-in Electronic Viewfinder</em></p>
<p><strong>MELVILLE, N.Y., September 15, 2016</strong> – Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced the latest additions to its EOS M series system – the new Canon EOS M5 Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera and compact EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens. The EOS M5 camera features a 24.2 Megapixel APS-C sized CMOS sensor, DIGIC 7 Image Processor and the fastest AF speed in the EOS M-series<sup>i</sup>, enabling photographers to capture clear, sharp, high-resolution images and Full HD videos. It is also the first in the EOS camera line to include the low energy Bluetooth<sup>®</sup> Smart<sup>ii</sup> feature that can maintain a constant connection<sup>iii</sup> with your compatible smartphone or tablet when you use the Canon camera connect application and both applications are active. The versatile EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens is compatible with all Canon EOS M series digital cameras, and is a great option for photographers looking to capture scenic landscapes while traveling to close-up shots from afar.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>“The new capabilities found in the Canon EOS M5 Camera and EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens set a new standard for our EOS M series of cameras and lenses, showing that Canon is constantly incorporating performance enhancements desired by our customers,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO, Canon U.S.A., Inc. “When paired together, the new EOS M5 camera and EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens provide image-makers of all levels with powerful tools that enable them to capture a variety of remarkable images and videos.”</p>
<p>In addition, advanced photographers will appreciate the improved operability of the EOS M5 camera. It has a built-in electronic viewfinder (EVF) and Canon’s Dual Pixel CMOS AF for capturing stills and shooting video with smooth and precise autofocus. This allows for Touch and Drag AF so users can easily switch the subject of their focus by dragging the AF frame directly on the LCD panel, even while looking through the camera’s EVF. Focus peaking allows users to highlight the area of the image that is in focus from within the EVF or LCD monitor. In addition to its touchscreen operability, the EOS M5 camera also has easily accessible dials that allow you to quickly adjust your settings on-the-go.</p>
<p><b>Key Features of the Canon EOS M5 Camera Include:</b></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li>24.2 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) sensor, ISO 100–25600.</li>
<li>Fast and smooth Dual Pixel CMOS AF helps you capture stills and shoot video with quick and precise autofocus.</li>
<li>High-speed continuous shooting at up to 7.0 fps (up to 9.0 fps with AF Lock) and new DIGIC 7 Image Processor with improved AF tracking performance.</li>
<li>Full HD 60p helps capture fast-moving subjects and brilliant results in MP4 format.</li>
<li>Digital IS with 5-axis image stabilization<a name="_Ref461616136"></a><sup>iv</sup>when shooting movies plus increased image stabilization with both lens optical IS and in-camera digital IS when shooting with an IS lens.</li>
<li>Built-in high-resolution EVF (approx. 2,360,000 dots)<b> </b>with new Touch and Drag AF lets you manually move the AF frame displayed for more precise focusing in different shooting situations.</li>
<li>Intuitive touch screen 3.2 tilt-type (85° up/180° down) LCD monitor<b> </b>(approx. 1,620,000 dots) enables flexible positioning and clear viewing.</li>
<li>Easily customize functions while shooting using the Main Dial, Quick Control Dial, Dial Function Button and Exposure Compensation Dial.</li>
<li>Built-in Wi-Fi®<sup>v</sup> and NFC<sup>vi</sup> allows for easy sharing and transferring of images and videos.</li>
<li>Equipped with Bluetooth®iii Smart for smooth pairing with a compatible smartphone by powering on both devices for easy photo sharing and remote control possibilities.</li>
<li>Shorter camera startup time<sup>vii</sup> and interval time between each image capture for a more efficient shooting experience.</li>
<li>Compatible with EF-M lenses as well as the full line of EF<a name="_Ref461616065"></a><sup>viii </sup>and EF-Sviii lenses and Speedlites for expanded creativity.</li>
</ul>
<p>The Canon EOS M5 also features Combination IS with in-camera 5-axis image stabilization, while capturing video, a first in the Canon EOS series. With a compatible lens attached<sup>iv</sup>, Combination IS leverages optical IS and in-camera digital IS to help create tremendously smooth videos. The DIGIC 7 Image Processor makes the 5-axis IS possible even with lenses that do not contain IS, because the in-camera image stabilization functions independently to help reduce camera shake when shooting videos.</p>
<p>Additionally, the EOS M5 camera shoots impressive time-lapse videos. The EOS M5 camera also allows for easy panning by setting the optimal shutter speed after analyzing the camera’s panning speed and how fast the subject is moving.</p>
<p>The new Canon EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens offers a high-zoom ratio, expanding the range of photographic possibilities for EOS M digital cameras. Its image stabilizer helps with reducing image blur and making image and video shooting easier at longer focal lengths. Along with the enhanced performance, the EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens is compact and lightweight, making it a versatile and convenient lens to carry.</p>
<p><b>Key Features of the Canon EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM Lens</b> <b>Include:</b></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li>Canon’s first EF-M high-zoom power lens covering a broad range of shooting scenes with a high-zoom ratio of up to 8.3x (29–240mm equivalent).</li>
<li>Compact and lightweight design allows for easy portability.</li>
<li>Optical design helps provide excellent image quality across a broad zoom range comparable to the EF-S 18–135mm f/3.5–5.6 IS USM lens.</li>
<li>Maximum magnification of 0.31x at focal length 150mm.</li>
<li>Image Stabilizer effect at up to 4<sup>ix</sup>stops of shake correction helps capture sharp images.</li>
</ul>
<p><b>Pricing and Availability</b></p>
<p>The new Canon EOS M5 camera is scheduled to be available through authorized Canon dealers or through the Canon Online store at<a href="http://shop.usa.canon.com/" target="_blank"><b>http://shop.usa.canon.com/</b></a> in November 2016, for an estimated retail price of $979.99 for the body only. It will also be sold as part of body-and-lens kits with EF-M 15-45mm/F3.5-6.3 IS STM zoom kit lens (estimated retail price of $1,099.00, scheduled to be available early November 2016<a name="_Ref461616351"></a><sup>x</sup>), and with the new EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens for an (estimated retail price of $1,479.00x, scheduled to be available early December 2016x)</p>
<p>In addition, the new Canon EF-M 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM lens, available in graphite and silver colors, is scheduled to be available in December 2016 for an estimated retail price of $499.99x.</p>
<p>Additional optional EOS accessories include a Body Jacket (EM-E2) and Neck Strap (EH29-CJ) that come in black or brown.</p>
<p>For more information please visit: <a href="http://mseriescameras.usa.canon.com/" target="_blank">http://mseriescameras.usa.canon.com</a></p>

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## -1 (Sep 15, 2016)

I'm a tad underwhelmed. You first...


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## Tugela (Sep 15, 2016)

1060P60 video is recorded as MP4 files. The consumer cameras from Canon usually record those at 35 mbps, so I expect that is the case with this one as well. So it is not going to be well regarded as a video camera, other than for very casual use.


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## Tangent (Sep 15, 2016)

Flash guide number remains at 5.

No wired remote. But it does support wireless remote RC-6 in case your phone dies.

These are small boxes of mine left unchecked; overall this looks quite good indeed.


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## LesC (Sep 15, 2016)

Announced today in the UK too but as always at somewhat higher prices; £1049 body only or £1399 with the 18-150. On current exchange rates that's about $1389 & $1852 respectively. At those sort of prices I'm not interested; the body only is £150 / $198 more than the 80D!

I know we all have different requirements/preferences but don't know why there's no GPS whereas there is Wifi & NFC. Who needs NFC?

Every time there's a new mirrorless/CSC that comes out I'm interested to see what it's like but none of them are truly pocketable cameras. Also, the lenses may be improving but until they are able to produce L-glass standard optics I'll be sticking to my DSLR - the M5 is nice but I think I'd be carrying it around thinking, "but if only I had my EOS 6D with me ..."


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## Proscribo (Sep 15, 2016)

LesC said:


> I know we all have different requirements/preferences but don't know why there's no GPS whereas there is Wifi & NFC. Who needs NFC?


I'm pretty sure NFC is for easy pairing for wifi... in my experience with 70D and Oly E-M10, that is a must feature if you don't want to end up fiddling with the fu****####### connection instead of actually shooting.

I don't think people care about GPS that much.


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## expatinasia (Sep 15, 2016)

I am a bit confused why the LCD screen can rotate below the camera facing forward (towards the lens). What can this be used for apart from selfies as surely if it is sat on a tripod you would not be able to see it. Thoughts?

Looks nice otherwise.


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## Proscribo (Sep 15, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> I am a bit confused why the LCD screen can rotate below the camera facing forward (towards the lens). What can this be used for apart from selfies as surely if it is sat on a tripod you would not be able to see it. Thoughts?
> 
> Looks nice otherwise.


I think it's just "better than nothing"-solution, when you have the camera on tripod you can use phone as a screen, would be kinda difficult to have a phone and the camera on your hands, if it didn't rotate.


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## lw (Sep 15, 2016)

Tangent said:


> No wired remote.



yes it has.


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## weixing (Sep 15, 2016)

Tangent said:


> Flash guide number remains at 5.
> 
> No wired remote. But it does support wireless remote RC-6 in case your phone dies.
> 
> These are small boxes of mine left unchecked; overall this looks quite good indeed.


Hi,
This M5 does support wire remote which is why I'll be interested... now waiting for the manual to become available, so can check does it meet my other requirement.

Have a nice day.


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## xps (Sep 15, 2016)

Nice mirrorless, but incredibly high pricing in Europe.
980$ in the US (=*872€* in Europe). 1140€ in Germany. 30% higher costs than in US.
Add 110€ for the Adapter....
The 80D is 999€ today....


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## hachu21 (Sep 15, 2016)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> This M5 does support wire remote which is why I'll be interested... now waiting for the manual to become available, so can check does it meet my other requirement.
> 
> Have a nice day.


Why wired remote is important to you? the wireless is not good for your usage?


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## hachu21 (Sep 15, 2016)

LesC said:


> Every time there's a new mirrorless/CSC that comes out I'm interested to see what it's like but none of them are truly pocketable cameras. Also, the lenses may be improving but until they are able to produce L-glass standard optics I'll be sticking to my DSLR - the M5 is nice but I think I'd be carrying it around thinking, "but if only I had my EOS 6D with me ..."


So you expect truly pocketable camera with L quality glass at the same time? You'll wait long...


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## weixing (Sep 15, 2016)

hachu21 said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


Hi,
I want to have the option to do interval shot of more than 30s exposure per shot and that can only be done with an external intervalometer. The M3 don't have a remote cable port.

Have a nice day.


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## Bernard (Sep 15, 2016)

LesC said:


> Who needs NFC?



People who own smartphones. Canon rightfully assumes that anyone who buys a $1000 camera probably owns a smartphone.


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## Act444 (Sep 15, 2016)

LesC said:


> Every time there's a new mirrorless/CSC that comes out I'm interested to see what it's like but none of them are truly pocketable cameras. Also, the lenses may be improving but until they are able to produce L-glass standard optics I'll be sticking to my DSLR - the M5 is nice but I think I'd be carrying it around thinking, "but if only I had my EOS 6D with me ..."



Have a look at the 11-22mm lens (if you're into WA)...dare I say, that one comes VERY close...


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## 1Zach1 (Sep 15, 2016)

Not a big fan of the styling, but I'll be interested to see the size comparison between it and the M3. Looks like I'll be holding onto my M1 for a while longer.


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## Arctic-Winds (Sep 15, 2016)

xps said:


> Nice mirrorless, but incredibly high pricing in Europe.
> 980$ in the US (=*872€* in Europe). 1140€ in Germany. 30% higher costs than in US.
> Add 110€ for the Adapter....
> The 80D is 999€ today....



The US prices don't include sales tax because it's not set at a country wide rate, rather a state by state rate.


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## wockawocka (Sep 15, 2016)

Stabilised L series primes. Ok so on a crop body, but still....


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 15, 2016)

UK pricing:- 

Canon EOS M5 body only £ 1,049 (includes free EF-EOS M adapter)

with 15-45mm kit lens £ 1,149 (includes free EF-EOS M adaptor)

with 18-150mm kit lens £ 1,399 (includes free EF-EOS M adaptor) 

With a 80D costing £ 999 this camera will struggle to find buyers in the UK (with 18-135mm its £ 1,299). 

No doubt the devaluing of £ sterling since Brexit has added to the cost but this is not the time in the UK to be buying photographic equipment and is sure to damage sales for Canon and other companies.


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## Sharlin (Sep 15, 2016)

Arctic-Winds said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Nice mirrorless, but incredibly high pricing in Europe.
> ...



Indeed. You have to add the local VAT to get a price that's at all comparable. Let's see how the M5 price drops after the first couple of months.


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## bbb34 (Sep 15, 2016)

_"smart device GPS function ( Camera Connect should be installed on smart devices with GPS log function turned on)"_

This means that the location is delivered from a smart phone through Bluetooth. Battery drain and GPS startup fix time problems solved. Sounds like a good solution.

Adding NFC should be dirt cheap, and adds convenience.


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## Luds34 (Sep 15, 2016)

bbb34 said:


> _"smart device GPS function ( Camera Connect should be installed on smart devices with GPS log function turned on)"_
> 
> This means that the location is delivered from a smart phone through Bluetooth. Battery drain and GPS startup fix time problems solved. Sounds like a good solution.
> 
> Adding NFC should be dirt cheap, and adds convenience.



That kind of makes sense. I don't need GPS, but I do enjoy it, especially on my trips to the BWCA. It's a nice marker to see what portages we tooks, mark sites we made camp at etc. However, the GPS just kills the battery on the 6D.


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## d (Sep 15, 2016)

bbb34 said:


> _"smart device GPS function ( Camera Connect should be installed on smart devices with GPS log function turned on)"_
> 
> This means that the location is delivered from a smart phone through Bluetooth. Battery drain and GPS startup fix time problems solved. Sounds like a good solution.
> 
> Adding NFC should be dirt cheap, and adds convenience.



Yes, I think I prefer this solution as well, for both those reasons given.


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## infared (Sep 15, 2016)

OK...maybe her personality is winning me over...she gets better and better looking every day..... 8)


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## davidj (Sep 15, 2016)

I'm not sure why you Europeans are complaining about the price. It's $999,999 here in Australia.

http://store.canon.com.au/digital-cameras.html


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## Valvebounce (Sep 15, 2016)

Hi David. 
Wow that is steep, better off getting the super kit as it is the same price as body only. Also I just realised that your lenses are obviously far superior, being ISST. ???
No idea what the I is for, injection? ;D I'm guessing that the SST bit is short for Super Sonic Transport, like the replacement for Concorde. 
Now who is getting value for their million bucks? ;D ;D ;D

Cheers, Graham. 



davidj said:


> I'm not sure why you Europeans are complaining about the price. It's $999,999 here in Australia.
> 
> http://store.canon.com.au/digital-cameras.html


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## Dylan777 (Sep 15, 2016)

One of best features in mirrorless is Eye AF. Did Canon missed this feature? 

On the other hand, touch AF is very nice feature.


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## Australisblue (Sep 15, 2016)

davidj said:


> I'm not sure why you Europeans are complaining about the price. It's $999,999 here in Australia.
> 
> http://store.canon.com.au/digital-cameras.html



Typical, only orders over $1,000,000 qualify for free shipping.


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## Ryan_ (Sep 15, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> Compatible with EF-M lenses as well as the full line of EFviii and EF-Sviii lenses and Speedlites for expanded creativity.


What does compatible with EFviii lenses mean?


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## Sharlin (Sep 15, 2016)

Ryan_ said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Compatible with EF-M lenses as well as the full line of EFviii and EF-Sviii lenses and Speedlites for expanded creativity.
> ...



The viii are (supposed to be) superscript, referring to some footnotes omitted from the copypasted press release.


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## Ryan_ (Sep 15, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> Ryan_ said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...


Ohhh ok I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.

From Canon's website: Compatible Lenses: EF-M lens (when using EF-M Mount Adapter: EF/EF-S lens group)"


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## cayenne (Sep 15, 2016)

So...do the regular EOS L lenses work with this thing?<P>
If not....seems a waste not to be able to use my current good glass on this thing...?

cayenne


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## privatebydesign (Sep 15, 2016)

cayenne said:


> So...do the regular EOS L lenses work with this thing?<P>
> If not....seems a waste not to be able to use my current good glass on this thing...?
> 
> cayenne



Yes they do via the glass free adapter. All EF lenses work with all functionality, so do the TC's.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 15, 2016)

Great set of videos here:

http://mseriescameras.usa.canon.com/6_videos.html


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## M_S (Sep 15, 2016)

Proscribo said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > I am a bit confused why the LCD screen can rotate below the camera facing forward (towards the lens). What can this be used for apart from selfies as surely if it is sat on a tripod you would not be able to see it. Thoughts?
> ...


That was my first odd thing. Why don't they do the tilt screen line in my old G12 camera? You can rotate it, you can flip it. I had it on the beach, while hiking, city tours. Never broke, still working, great concept. Why not doing it like that?


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## privatebydesign (Sep 15, 2016)

M_S said:


> Proscribo said:
> 
> 
> > expatinasia said:
> ...



It's the viewfinder that is preventing it going upwards. The G12 viewfinder is comparatively small and flat. I can imagine the backlash if the viewfinder was less than perfect so the cost is a flip screen that can't go up 180 degrees.


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## knightyboy (Sep 15, 2016)

Well I'm still happy with my 80D (upgrade from 450D) although I would love it if they did a firmware update to add the touchscreen AF point selection, that's a neat trick (although I know they're not the 1st to do it)


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## M_S (Sep 15, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> M_S said:
> 
> 
> > Proscribo said:
> ...



But the flip screen goes sideways on the G12 not up or down. To shoot a selfi you flip it out sideways and rotate it 180 degrees. No viewfinder in the way, not tripod to handle etc. 

Here you go: http://www.chip.de/ii/9/8/3/3/3/0/1/d145ee0ca2818211.jpg


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## Sharlin (Sep 15, 2016)

M_S said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > It's the viewfinder that is preventing it going upwards. The G12 viewfinder is comparatively small and flat. I can imagine the backlash if the viewfinder was less than perfect so the cost is a flip screen that can't go up 180 degrees.
> ...



Yeah, the same vari-angle mechanism as in the x0D series. The problem with a full swivel screen is that the hinge takes a lot of room. It appears Canon decided to go with a bigger screen instead (3.2" like in the 5D4 and 1DX2!)


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## Tangent (Sep 15, 2016)

weixing said:


> Tangent said:
> 
> 
> > Flash guide number remains at 5.
> ...



I hope you are right. I saw that the imaging-resource write-up said yes for wired remote. But every spec sheet I've seen omits it from the interface list. Not to make too big a deal about this but it would be handy to have. 



As you say, it won't be long until we have a manual.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2016)

Tangent said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > Tangent said:
> ...



Why wait? Just zoom in on Canon's promo image of the M5 (link), you can see the icon for a wired remote port on the cover flap.


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## Tangent (Sep 15, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tangent said:
> 
> 
> > weixing said:
> ...



Ah... I hadn't noticed that before. Thanks!


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## kanehi (Sep 15, 2016)

Specs looks good. I wished they did put it a GPS module. I hope it has an option for the external GPS connectivity which I have. I have a Nikon P900 and it has wi-fi, gps and NFC and the GPS is nice to have data recorded with your pictures. When I saw the video the camera reminded me of the Olympus OM-D film camera when it first came out. An articulating screen would've been nice instead of the tilt one. I guess I'll stay with my EOS-M1 for now because the price is a bit much. My 70D should also suffice for now


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## bvukich (Sep 15, 2016)

Timing sucks (for me). This is pretty much exactly what I wanted, a small-ish mirrorless 80D, but since I just got a 5D4 last week, and a 100-400II a couple months ago (before the price drop, of course  ), I'm pretty tapped out right now. 

I'll almost certainly be buying one in a few months though. The M5 + 22/2 will be my always-with-me camera.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Sep 15, 2016)

Canon will probably always be my pick for a dslr. I love my L series glass, little disappointed with the 5DS R so I'm holding off going to a high res full frame for awhile. 
But in the meantime I'm going to put some money into a mirrorless system, that being said I wouldn't be caught dead with a canon mirrorless camera. The fujifilm x series systems are hands down the best mirrorless camera and lens system right now.


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## Bob Howland (Sep 15, 2016)

Would anybody care to guess when Metabones will introduce a Speed Booster for EF lenses on an M camera? It hardly seemed worth it when the M3 and M10 were the top of the M-mount line, but now...


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## Sharlin (Sep 15, 2016)

kanehi said:


> Specs looks good. I wished they did put it a GPS module. I hope it has an option for the external GPS connectivity which I have.



It can use phone GPS via Bluetooth to geotag photos as you shoot. Which sounds pretty great.


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## CincyFlyer (Sep 15, 2016)

-1 said:


> I'm a tad underwhelmed. You first...


I'd be overwhelmed at $499. Maybe just whelmed at $599. Not interested at the listed price, or anything near it.


----------



## Etienne (Sep 15, 2016)

CincyFlyer said:


> -1 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a tad underwhelmed. You first...
> ...



The power built into this camera makes the asking price quite reasonable. Of course I too wanted more, like 4K and a swivel screen, but I still think it's a good buy.


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## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Sep 15, 2016)

Looks good to me as my SL1 will be about 5, when the price of an M5 drops down. As olde age odometer ticks, there are those days that I just don't feel like/want to carry one of my bricks. )


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## stochasticmotions (Sep 15, 2016)

Can't wait to see how this camera performs, I'm assuming pretty much equivalent image quality as the 80D and the usual good interface. I'm really hoping that the focus tracking is close to (or maybe even better than) the latest sony with native lenses. I'm also hopeful on the performance of adapted EF lenses, especially long telephoto that are still not well managed in the sony world.

Definitely has potential to be a great backup canon body (and a great travel one as well).


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 16, 2016)

Looks like a really great camera that answers the call of those wanting a more compact answer to an 80D type. Canon has been #3 in MILC sales without even trying. I'm betting this thing will sell very very well


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## Tugela (Sep 16, 2016)

Tugela said:


> 1060P60 video is recorded as MP4 files. The consumer cameras from Canon usually record those at 35 mbps, so I expect that is the case with this one as well. So it is not going to be well regarded as a video camera, other than for very casual use.



Apparently it is 35 mbps video, so I was correct.


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## Solar Eagle (Sep 16, 2016)

LesC said:


> Every time there's a new mirrorless/CSC that comes out I'm interested to see what it's like but none of them are truly pocketable cameras. Also, the lenses may be improving but until they are able to produce L-glass standard optics I'll be sticking to my DSLR - the M5 is nice but I think I'd be carrying it around thinking, "if only I had my EOS 6D with me ..."



The closest you will get to "pocketable with L-glass" is the M1 w/22mm f/2.... Camera tech is already pushing the limits - if you want better you have to go bigger. If you want pocketable get a GX camera and don't worry about the lens........


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## Solar Eagle (Sep 16, 2016)

dilbert said:


> hachu21 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



The Pro 1 lens only has to fulfill the requirements of an 8 megapixel sensor.... Besides, does that camera actually fit in the pocket of any pair of jean you own? 

Maybe not but Canons new compact lenses might beat that old-ass lens... At least they have the self respect not to slap a red ring on just anything............ lol


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## gluk (Sep 16, 2016)

The Canon 80D has OVF focusing brightness range of EV -3 to 18 and a max of 45 cross-type AF points while the M5's DPAF metering range is EV -1 to 18, can we assume that the AF capability of the latter will be below that of the former?


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## WorkonSunday (Sep 16, 2016)

struggle to pick between this or the XT2. :-[

might end up getting both.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2016)

Tugela said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > 1060P60 video is recorded as MP4 files. The consumer cameras from Canon usually record those at 35 mbps, so I expect that is the case with this one as well. So it is not going to be well regarded as a video camera, other than for very casual use.
> ...



Good for you. But you were completely wrong – again – when you stated that any Canon camera with Digic 7 would shoot 4K video. So I'd be careful about patting your own back, a 50% correct rate is a failing grade.


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## Sharlin (Sep 16, 2016)

gluk said:


> The Canon 80D has OVF focusing brightness range of EV -3 to 18 and a max of 45 cross-type AF points while the M5's DPAF metering range is EV -1 to 18, can we assume that the AF capability of the latter will be below that of the former?



The -1 spec is actually a bit strange. 80D's DPAF actually focuses in _dimmer_ light than the discrete AF sensor (which, according to tests, doesn't quite reach the promised -3EV). Not sure why the M5 would be different, given that it's practically the same sensor. Unless Canon has done some "product differentiation" there.


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## Tugela (Sep 16, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



You are the one who is wrong. The Digic 7 can do 4K, but it is the camera that can't cope with the heat. I have said this repeatedly. This is why the 1DXII and 5DIV use Digic 6+ processors and software encoding as MJPEG.

Digic 7 is a variant of Digic DV5, which as you may (or in your case, may not) know does 4K hardware encoding using H.264 at up to 400 mbps (IIRC). They are both the same generation of processors, with minor differences optimized for different applications.

If they put a fan in the M5 it would have been able to shoot 4K using hardware encoding.


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## merefield (Sep 16, 2016)

Not impressed.

High Pro/Prosumer price yet no 4k, slow lenses (those F-stops cannot be compared to FF directly), poor flip screen that will be obscured by tripod, pointless fixed EVF which could have articulated like the removable optional one on prior models (which is excellent), and no proper image stabilisation (useless for stills)

I mean you'd get an 80D instead, wouldn't you??


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## d (Sep 16, 2016)

merefield said:


> Not impressed.
> 
> High Pro/Prosumer price yet no 4k, slow lenses (those F-stops cannot be compared to FF directly), poor flip screen that will be obscured by tripod, pointless fixed EVF which could have articulated like the removable optional one on prior models (which is excellent), and no proper image stabilisation (useless for stills)
> 
> I mean you'd get an 80D instead, wouldn't you??



???

No proper image stabilisation....apart from that built into all but one EF-M lens! I smell a troll...


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## Etienne (Sep 16, 2016)

merefield said:


> Not impressed.
> 
> High Pro/Prosumer price yet no 4k, slow lenses (those F-stops cannot be compared to FF directly), poor flip screen that will be obscured by tripod, pointless fixed EVF which could have articulated like the removable optional one on prior models (which is excellent), and no proper image stabilisation (useless for stills)
> 
> I mean you'd get an 80D instead, wouldn't you??



The M5 is very portable, the 80D package is basically as bulky as my 5D3.
I use the M3 with 11-22 ... a very handy ultrawide setup, the M5 will be dynamite with this lens.
Put the 22mm f/2 on the M5 and you have a pocket camera for low light.

There are a lot of advantages of the M5 over the 80D ... at the same IQ


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## ritholtz (Sep 16, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> gluk said:
> 
> 
> > The Canon 80D has OVF focusing brightness range of EV -3 to 18 and a max of 45 cross-type AF points while the M5's DPAF metering range is EV -1 to 18, can we assume that the AF capability of the latter will be below that of the former?
> ...


May be continuous focusing is going to struggle with light levels below -1EV. Same 80d sensor with faster processing, I should focus like 80d right? According to IR, M5 is going to have slightly better IQ with faster processor.


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## Luds34 (Sep 16, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> gluk said:
> 
> 
> > The Canon 80D has OVF focusing brightness range of EV -3 to 18 and a max of 45 cross-type AF points while the M5's DPAF metering range is EV -1 to 18, can we assume that the AF capability of the latter will be below that of the former?
> ...



That is odd. At this price I'd be surprised if Canon went with some "product differentiation" as you so elegantly stated. This M5 appears to be the mirrorless that Canon did *not* hold back on so I find the -1 puzzling.


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## arthurbikemad (Sep 16, 2016)

I love the look of this, nice camera for the smalls bag! Will defo be getting on of these on a 15-45 kit and EF adaptor, great for long treks.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2016)

Tugela said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



Yeah, I guess I just misunderstood your statements. : : :



Tugela said:


> All cameras with a Digic 7 processor will have the capability of shooting 4K video. So, if all of these cameras are projected to include a Digic 7, then all of them will shoot 4K.





Tugela said:


> We already know that the Digic 7/DV5 family has the capability to do basic 4K video, so the hardware encoders are present without question.
> 
> If a Canon camera has a Digic 7 processor in it, it will shoot 4K 30p video, provided that a modern storage interface has been included. Higher frame rates in 4K and higher resolutions, however, will not happen without extra hardware in the design.


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## lw (Sep 16, 2016)

Luds34 said:


> That is odd. At this price I'd be surprised if Canon went with some "product differentiation" as you so elegantly stated. This M5 appears to be the mirrorless that Canon did *not* hold back on so I find the -1 puzzling.



I think because the DSLRs and MILCs use totally different metering sensors. The DSLRs have a dedicated metering sensor, whereas the MILC use the imaging sensor.

80D spec says =
7560-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor
Metering with the area divided into 63 segments (9×7)
(1) Evaluative metering (linked to all AF points)
(2) Partial metering (approx. 6.0% of viewfinder)
(3) Spot metering (approx. 3.8% of viewfinder)
(4) Center-weighted average metering

M5 spec says =
Real-time metering from the image sensor
(1) Evaluative metering
(2) Partial metering at center
(3) Center weighted average metering
(4) Spot metering


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## Hjalmarg1 (Sep 16, 2016)

Not really excited. It still lags behind competition in many aspects. Is it an improvement over predecessors? Yes, but still not matching features of competitors. 
And lens line-up is miserable, still offering variable aperture kit-like zoom lenses, nothing serious about for semi-professional or advance users. :-X


----------



## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Sep 16, 2016)

WorkonSunday said:


> struggle to pick between this or the XT2. :-[
> 
> might end up getting both.



Definitely the XT2!! That's the one I'm waiting for, the Fujinon lenses are amazing!! Me and a co-worker are canon shooters and both were looking to the 5DS R for its image quality, sharpness and versatility. From what we've gathered the XT2 might actually be sharper than the 5DS R which makes it an amazing package at that price with that awesome selection of lenses.


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## dak723 (Sep 16, 2016)

I am definitely interested in this. While I normally prefer an OVF to an EVF, the small size and light weight are advantages that may be hard to pass up. Combine that with Canon's always excellent color, contrast and ergonomics - as well as their reliability - and this should be an excellent camera. 

As usual, we have the same sort of comments from folks who must not be paying any attention to what CAnon offers. If you want bells and whistles, Canon is not the camera company for you. If you love spec lists, go to Sony. Why isn't this obvious, or do you folks just love to complain and whine?


----------



## transpo1 (Sep 16, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



I'm sure Digic 7 is capable of shooting 4K, isn't it? They just didn't develop this camera to utilize that capability.


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## ritholtz (Sep 16, 2016)

Hjalmarg1 said:


> Not really excited. It still lags behind competition in many aspects. Is it an improvement over predecessors? Yes, but still not matching features of competitors.
> And lens line-up is miserable, still offering variable aperture kit-like zoom lenses, nothing serious about for semi-professional or advance users. :-X


4K is only big thing it is missing on spec sheet compared to Sony a6300. But M5 has nice touch screen (which also act as touch pad) implementation married to dpaf. In terms of user experience/interface it is going to be completely different than a6300 which doesn't have even touch screen. M5 has nice grip as well. Don't know why Sony doesn't add little bit of pancake lens size of grip at least. Anyway grip and form factor is subjective.

With respect to the lens based on info from M users, electrical contacts are same between ef-m and ef mount. Adapter is just a physical mount adjustment. So in use, EF lens should act like native lens. Unlike Sony hybrid sensor focusing system, PDAF is also more robust in terms of working with Canon mount lens (EF, Sigma) with different focusing mechanisms.


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## d (Sep 16, 2016)

PHOTOPROROCKIES said:


> WorkonSunday said:
> 
> 
> > struggle to pick between this or the XT2. :-[
> ...



Don't believe everything you see on T.N.'s youtube channel...


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## LDS (Sep 16, 2016)

transpo1 said:


> I'm sure Digic 7 is capable of shooting 4K, isn't it? They just didn't develop this camera to utilize that capability.



It doesn't matter, Canon always skips the 4 number in these cameras. It's the M5, after all, not the M4. They would have liked to add 5K, not 4K....


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## merefield (Sep 16, 2016)

Tugela said:


> You are the one who is wrong. The Digic 7 can do 4K, but it is the camera that can't cope with the heat. <SNIP>
> 
> If they put a fan in the M5 it would have been able to shoot 4K using hardware encoding.



What's the point of such a feature on a chip if it runs too hot to deliver 4k? And I hope you were joking about a fan! 

I appreciate Canon not giving us features just to fill out spec sheets which don't work in the wild, like Sony, though.

Seems we'll need to wait for them to shrink the electronics down so they create less heat before minimally cropped 4k becomes a reality.


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## Hector1970 (Sep 16, 2016)

It's seems a reasonably good Mirrorless camera without breaking any new ground compared to it's competitors.
Not that it interests me but I'm surprised it's not 4K.
I think this is of interest for buyers. Not that I think people will really use it but people want it as a feature because it's on other cameras.
Is the sensor Canon in-house or a Sony Sensor?
I think it will sell well. 
What I find a pity is the lack of fast primes for it. 
Canon is good at making small pancakes lens.
An 18mm, 35mm, 50mm combo of prime lens would be a great addition to the M5.

It's hard to tell if Canon are very focussed on building the lens range for the M5.
They probably will if it's successful but won't if its not


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## brad-man (Sep 16, 2016)

I mostly agree with Hector. This is the camera the M3 should have been. There, I said it. This iteration has everything I would reasonably want in a mirrorless (although I would gladly trade the built in EVF for an articulating screen). I will be interested to see if this camera performs as nicely as its specs would indicate. I will not, however, be purchasing any more components in the M system until I see Canon producing some enthusiast class lenses. By this I mean at least three more primes between f/1.8-2.4 and an f/4 standard zoom. I need to be convinced that Canon is going to show more love to the M system than it has to its apsc counterparts.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Sep 17, 2016)

d said:


> PHOTOPROROCKIES said:
> 
> 
> > WorkonSunday said:
> ...



I did say might.. We're waiting till we get one in store and can actually test and compare the two..


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## Tugela (Sep 17, 2016)

merefield said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > You are the one who is wrong. The Digic 7 can do 4K, but it is the camera that can't cope with the heat. <SNIP>
> ...



Because they use the same chip design for a particular family of chips, but with different parts enabled or disabled. The Digic 7 is the same generation as the Digic DV5, so the hardware encoders included in the chips are the same. They likely intended the cameras using this generation to be able to shoot 4K, just like Sony and Panasonic analogs, but when the chip was actually built it turned out to run too hot. There is not a lot that can be done at that point, other than make cameras that simply don't use that feature of the chip. The DV5 variants included in the EOS-C cameras have fans to cool them, but that is not feasible on regular cameras. 

So while the capability to shoot 4K is there, it isn't used because of the thermal envelope constraints.

Their original intent was probably to have Digic 7 chips shooting 4K on all enthusiast cameras in 2015, but after it was made the chip just couldn't handle it. So it stalled their plans to catch up to Sony and Panasonic.

The thermal envelope problem is not going to be resolved for the Digic 7 generation however. They might get a more power efficient version with Digic 8, so until that comes out, hardware encoding probably is not going t happen on Canon stills cameras.

The whole processor thing is what is holding Canon back. I am sure that it is exceedingly frustrating for their managers and engineers, because they would love to take it to Sony/Panasonic, but just can't. There is a gap opening, and until the processor situation is resolved they are hobbled in their efforts to prevent it from continuing to grow.

If I was to make a guess, that is the reason why DPAF is being thrown into everything. They have to do something to give them some sort of competitive edge, and they are banking on PDAF being enough of a stopgap to buy them some more time.


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## Maximilian (Sep 17, 2016)

Finally I found out what was annoing me with this camera:
The release button. 

Canon was almost always delivering a even release button with EOS DSLRs.
That changed with EOS M bodies and they now have that kind of grooved ring around the release button. 
I was expecting this to change back to the even button with that kind of cmera design.

I was always preferring that smooth even button over the ones of Nikon or else.

The rest of the camera seems to be quite interesting and I am interested to get my hands on it soon.
But the pricing will keep me from buying.


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## pappajohn (Sep 17, 2016)

I had a Canon M3 and liked it. Basically has the same sensor as the 80D. Sensor has great dynamic range. 18-55 lens surprisingly good and both camera and lens were well made. Sold the camera because it lacked and EVF and had a somewhat slow autofocus. I am very excited by the new M5 body. It fixed every issue lacking in the M3 and then some. Problem is canon replaced the mostly metal 18-55 5.6 kit lens with a cheaper looking slower f4-6.3 kit lens with a plastic base. What were they thinking? It looks like has finally produced a mirror less camera as good or better than Fuji and Sony but has not given us a first class lens system to optimize the capabilities of the camera. The only really first rate lens offered for the M5 is the 11-22 wide angle lens. To make the M5 system Canon needs to come up with some moderately fast prime lenses and a faster standard zoom than a f6.3.


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## Woody (Sep 17, 2016)

Tugela said:


> If I was to make a guess, that is the reason why DPAF is being thrown into everything. They have to do something to give them some sort of competitive edge, and they are banking on PDAF being enough of a stopgap to buy them some more time.



I will certainly pick DPAF over 4k. ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 17, 2016)

Tugela said:


> The whole processor thing is what is holding Canon back. I am sure that it is exceedingly frustrating for their managers and engineers, because they would love to take it to Sony/Panasonic, but just can't. There is a gap opening...



Holding Canon back from what, exactly? In 2015, Canon's one line of MILCs surpassed the full Panasonic lineup of MILCs to become #3 in Japanese sales, if that's not 'taking it to Panasonic', what is? Sure there's a gap...a widening gap in MILC sales where Canon leads Panasonic, and a narrowing gap where Canon is catching up to Sony (who lost the #1 spot to Olympus last year).


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## nads (Sep 17, 2016)

Tugela said:


> merefield said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



Oh our bad luck. We get stuck with a lowly DPAF feature (A critical path development for a Canon stills camera) but we miss out on 4K which is not critical for a stills camera.

Clearly Canon had no intention of using DPAF after developing it and sticking it in DSLR... it was a throw away one off kind of thing that they are trying to sell us on now because they couldn't get 4K to work. Got it. Makes perfect sense.

This is like complaining that my screwdriver handle can't hammer a nail as well as I want it to... They couldn't get the hammer right so they stuck on a unique metal tip that doesn't wear down. Those idiots couldn't make this screwdriver pound a nail worth a damn so now I'm stuck with a feature that is only good for the purpose the tool is designed for in the first place! Gosh, I can't believe I got this garbage feature from the best selling screwdriver company in the world!

If you want to do good 4K work, get a camera with that as its primary focus. If you're going to make money or an impact with 4K, statistically you will be doing it with that. The rest of us will tolerate a camera that only records at a level at which only 320Billion minutes per day are consumed in the United States. 

Funny thing about that technology gap opening... Sony and Panasonic mirror less video equipment can't touch the purpose built video equipment that Canon is making. Obviously there is a technology gap that is becoming insuperable.

Remember when everybody said "Canon only has 3 mirror less bodies and they're all behind... they are losing out on this market and will never catch up". Conveniently they ignored (or were ignorant of) the fact that Canon and Nikon both intentionally never passed each other in every feature. Not even on their flagship bodies. They've always been willing to let the other lead in a feature or two and take the lead in others.

Canon's total technology package has been far ahead of Fuji/Sony/M43 since the mirror less platforms started. The idea that they couldn't catch up the minute they felt it make sense from a business perspective has always been ridiculous. 

If you think that Canon is technology limited, you don't get it. They sell what they sell because it is a targeted market strategy intended to focus on profit and business growth. Burning through design and production launch of 30 mirror less bodies to Canon's 3 is why some don't make money when Canon does.


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## dak723 (Sep 17, 2016)

pappajohn said:


> I had a Canon M3 and liked it. Basically has the same sensor as the 80D. Sensor has great dynamic range. 18-55 lens surprisingly good and both camera and lens were well made. Sold the camera because it lacked and EVF and had a somewhat slow autofocus. I am very excited by the new M5 body. It fixed every issue lacking in the M3 and then some. Problem is canon replaced the mostly metal 18-55 5.6 kit lens with a cheaper looking slower f4-6.3 kit lens with a plastic base. What were they thinking? It looks like has finally produced a mirror less camera as good or better than Fuji and Sony but has not given us a first class lens system to optimize the capabilities of the camera. The only really first rate lens offered for the M5 is the 11-22 wide angle lens. To make the M5 system Canon needs to come up with some moderately fast prime lenses and a faster standard zoom than a f6.3.



While they are using a different kit lens, the 18-55mm is still available - and if you sold yours with your camera, they can be bought for around $100 on ebay. So no reason to get the kit lens that you don't like.


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## bholliman (Sep 17, 2016)

nads said:


> Oh our bad luck. We get stuck with a lowly DPAF feature (A critical path development for a Canon stills camera) but we miss out on 4K which is not critical for a stills camera.
> 
> Clearly Canon had no intention of using DPAF after developing it and sticking it in DSLR... it was a throw away one off kind of thing that they are trying to sell us on now because they couldn't get 4K to work. Got it. Makes perfect sense.



+1 well stated


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## crashpc (Sep 17, 2016)

1150€ is too much for little brother of 80D I guess. That is another miss Canon. I rather buy next lens for my Nikon, and wait if you don´t miss with FF Mirrorless in next years.


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## AvTvM (Sep 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ... In 2015, Canon's one line of MILCs surpassed the full Panasonic lineup of MILCs to become #3 in Japanese sales, if that's not 'taking it to Panasonic', what is? Sure there's a gap...a widening gap in MILC sales where Canon leads Panasonic, and a narrowing gap where Canon is catching up to Sony (who lost the #1 spot to Olympus last year).



nope. http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/mirrorless-market-shares.html



> Putting actual numbers on that is a bit tougher. We know that *Olympus shipped 550k units* in their last fiscal year (though that *will slip to 460k in the current year* according to their estimates). We had *Sony *at about 12% of the overall ILC market last year, which put their mirrorless number somewhere *around 1.4m*. And from *Canon’s *recently stated numbers, we’d have to guess that they were *somewhere above 300k units for mirrorless last year, and are now growing significantly*.




But the M5 is finally a good step in the right direction. *Once price drops below 80D and into Rebel territory, it will sell very well.* Especially, since the EF-M lens lineup is really good already [ignore the few omni-present fast prime whiners on forums] and even more importantly for the target audience: very affordable. 

M5 really is almost everything I asked for. Personally I would have preferred the same functionality in a more compact, rangefinder-type package with pop-up left-top-corner EVF. Even if it would have come without that rather pointless GN 5 pop-up flash. 

Or other way round: having chosen this rather bulky "Mini-DSLR" form factor, Canon really should have stuck a beefier battery [LP-E6N ?] into it. Plus an RT flash commander into the hump.


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## dak723 (Sep 17, 2016)

Agree that M5 is a step in the right direction. A big step, in my opinion. Currently I own a 6D and an Olympus E-M1. Due to smaller size and weight, the Olympus gets used far more than the 6D. I can go with my dog to scenic spots, and carry the Oly far more easily. To me, that is the main advantage of a mirrorless camera. Now that Canon is offering an even smaller and lighter mirrorless, I may look to replace my 6D and/or my Oly with the M5. It will depend on the EVF - will it be as good as the OLY? Will it be fairly accurate in its WYSIWYG ability to judge exposure? From what I have read, the 11-22mm and the 18-55mm EF-M lenses get pretty high marks. I know many folks are whining about the prime selection, but for most folks this will be their second camera or their walk-around travel camera. For those purposes, you want zooms not primes. I think Canon understands that.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Sep 17, 2016)

dak723 said:


> Agree that M5 is a step in the right direction. A big step, in my opinion. Currently I own a 6D and an Olympus E-M1. Due to smaller size and weight, the Olympus gets used far more than the 6D. I can go with my dog to scenic spots, and carry the Oly far more easily. To me, that is the main advantage of a mirrorless camera. Now that Canon is offering an even smaller and lighter mirrorless, I may look to replace my 6D and/or my Oly with the M5. It will depend on the EVF - will it be as good as the OLY? Will it be fairly accurate in its WYSIWYG ability to judge exposure? From what I have read, the 11-22mm and the 18-55mm EF-M lenses get pretty high marks. I know many folks are whining about the prime selection, but for most folks this will be their second camera or their walk-around travel camera. For those purposes, you want zooms not primes. I think Canon understands that.



Not everyone would agree, some people want to use a canon mirrorless as a street photography camera. 
In my opinion looking watching Fuji and even Olympus and Panasonic, canons mirrorless cameras are laughable at best and their lens selection just isn't where it should be.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Sep 17, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ... In 2015, Canon's one line of MILCs surpassed the full Panasonic lineup of MILCs to become #3 in Japanese sales, if that's not 'taking it to Panasonic', what is? Sure there's a gap...a widening gap in MILC sales where Canon leads Panasonic, and a narrowing gap where Canon is catching up to Sony (who lost the #1 spot to Olympus last year).
> ...



The price won't drop that much for a long while and by that point it won't be very new. I'm not saying there isn't a market for canon mirrorless cameras, they at least didn't shoot themselves in the foot like nikon did with the one series. I'm sure they'll smarten up eventually but it'll take a little while and by that time fuji is going to have a much bigger hold on the mirrorless market than they already do.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 17, 2016)

PHOTOPROROCKIES said:


> The price won't drop that much for a long while and by that point it won't be very new. I'm not saying there isn't a market for canon mirrorless cameras, they at least didn't shoot themselves in the foot like nikon did with the one series. I'm sure they'll smarten up eventually but it'll take a little while and by that time fuji is going to have a much bigger hold on the mirrorless market than they already do.



Don't let facts get in the way of your reality.

MILC market share is close to this list, with occasional switches of a place as a new model comes out, 
1/ Sony
2/ Olympus
3/ Canon
4/ Nikon
5/ Panasonic
6/ Fuji

It is widely expected that Canon will move to 2nd place this year as Olympus have had serious production issues and Canon have come out with a new model.


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## AvTvM (Sep 18, 2016)

PHOTOPROROCKIES said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > ... I know many folks are whining about the prime selection, but for most folks this will be their second camera or their walk-around travel camera. For those purposes, you want zooms not primes. I think Canon understands that.
> ...



Interesting thing is, that all the EF-M lens lineup bitchers and whiners are always bitching totally unspecific! Never ever do they suggest specific lenses they would like to see in EF-M mount ... and lenses, that make sense! No, we do NOT need f/1.2 EF-M clunkers at 1000 a piece, only Fuji needs them, because they have nothiong else but crop lenses. On a Canon you can use any EF prime with a simple adapter, if you really have a situation that calls for a fast lens. 

Only lens really missing from EF-M in my book is a short, compact, high-IQ native tele. Something like an EF-M 85/2.4 STM IS. As excellent optically as the 22/2.0 and affordably priced too. And maybe an EF-M emenation of the 50/1.8 STM. That's it , everything else is either already there or can be better covered using an EF lens.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Sep 18, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> PHOTOPROROCKIES said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



The quality you would get from a fuji camera with one of their primes is much better quality than you get with any canopn mirrorless or apsc with the EF lens. I'm not saying fuji is the greatest/end all be all. They aren't, no camera is, each one has things its best at and a demographic they are best for. As it stands canon isn't doing much for the professional with the mirrorless line. Fuji is a professional mirrorless option with amazing detail, wicked sharpness, and really nice colour tones. BUT canon DSLR's wont be ebat by a mirrorless camera for awhile. 
Sure the Sony A7Rii and A7Sii are amazing cameras and outperform Canon and Nikon in certain aspects EXCEPT size, once you throw the FF lenses from Sony on there you might as well be carrying your CAnon or Nikon FF cameras and lenses.


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## Busted Knuckles (Sep 18, 2016)

This really isn't a pro camera - though I see some pros using 50/60/70D cameras fairly frequently (I have seen a multi camera set up using T3i for video??) 

Take the guts out of this, put a FF sensor on it (same resolution) and drop it into a 6d body... 

(I would love it to have a flippy screen) 

9 fps w/ focus peaking, I would manual focus for the higher fps.

No view finder blackout when burst shooting.

The quite shutter. I think it would be a wedding photogs dream.


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## AvTvM (Sep 18, 2016)

PHOTOPROROCKIES said:


> The quality you would get from a fuji camera with one of their primes is much better quality than you get with any canopn mirrorless or apsc with the EF lens.



urban myth. ;D
Some of those Fuji X-lenses are very good. Not all of them. But all of them are crop lenses and nearly as big, heavy and expensive as good FF lenses.

EF-M 22/2.0 easily matches any Fuji X-lens in sharpness and IQ. 
EF-M 11-22 fully matches Fuji 10-24 - except max. aperture - at a fraction of size, weight and cost. 
EF-M 55-200 beats both Fuji X- telezooms, 50-230 and 50-200. 
even EF-M 18-55 kit zoom fully matches optical performance of Fuji 18-55/2.8-4.0 (except in aperture). 

A decent Canon EF-M lens set costs and weighs not even half of what those Fuji retro clunkers cost. Now with M5 Canon has a reasonable camera body too and will start to shred Fuji as far as mirrorless APS-C goes. 

Only Fuji XF lens I'd like to see an equivalent in the Canon EF-M lineup is that little 35/2.0 (NOT the 35/1.4 clunker). it's a sharp little beast, similar to Canon 22/2.0.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Sep 18, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> PHOTOPROROCKIES said:
> 
> 
> > The quality you would get from a fuji camera with one of their primes is much better quality than you get with any canopn mirrorless or apsc with the EF lens.
> ...



Definitely not as expensive, if more of the canons had no low pass filter I'd slightly agree. 
Canon mirrorless APS-C with those lenses won't Shred fuji, might match it slightly in performance but won't shred them. I play with all other them daily and the Canon Mirrorless can not currently touch fuji. 
If canon Mirrorless had no low pass filter then maybe it would be closer. 
At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what camera you have in your hand as long as you know how to use it.


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## ritholtz (Sep 18, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> PHOTOPROROCKIES said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...


I would like to see EF-M 85mm prime as well. I find it pretty nice FL for using it during indoor kid activities. I can live with it EF 85mm lens which are pretty cheap in used condition. I have to get adapter. Canon stressed a lot about designing top and bottom plate on M5 to match fit and finish on the EF-M lens. So, they are putting importance in aesthetics/look. May be to attract phone crowds who are looking for dedicated camera. We might not see too many of EFM lens. Hopefully one or two primes and Sigma to come up with one of their 17-50/70mm f2.8/f4 zoom. Sigma likes this zoom range.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 18, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ... *In 2015*, Canon's one line of MILCs surpassed the full Panasonic lineup of MILCs to become #3 *in Japanese sales*, if that's not 'taking it to Panasonic', what is? Sure there's a gap...a widening gap in MILC sales where Canon leads Panasonic, and a narrowing gap where Canon is catching up to Sony (who lost the #1 spot to Olympus last year).
> ...



Yep. Check BCN. But thanks for the like to some global data.


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## Quackator (Sep 18, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> But thanks for the like to some global data.



And don't forget, the #2 ranking forecast was before we all have seen 
the audience reaction towards the M5.

I think it will take Canon straight to #1 this year.

Two years ago I entered the M game very late and paid less than 300 Euro 
for body, iShoot grip, mount adapter, 22mm pancake and 5 batteries.
Last year I waited for the M3 (body only) to drop below 500 Euro, and since that
never happened finally bought it with the 18-55mm kit lens at 440 Euro.
This year I preordered the M5 at 1140 Euro. Draw a curve.....

The usual "wait until the childhood illnesses are fixed and we all know what it really can do"
is gone - I want it now and have made sure that I will get one in the first shipment,
even if my dealer receives only one piece.

What I collect from colleagues, family and friends, their view on the 
M5 is pretty similar, and I think this is powerful enough to take Canon
directly to #1 this year. The supply of 1D-X MkII and 5D MkIV proves 
that their yield rates are stellar, and will not slow down their sales at all.

Olympus and Sony on the other hand will certainly struggle to get 
enough chips baked and mounted.

And I have a slight suspicion that I might not want to keep the M3 
and instead will opt for one more M5.....


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## DogpackChris (Sep 18, 2016)

Quackator said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > But thanks for the like to some global data.
> ...


I agree. I bought the SL1 a few years ago and still use it for a lot hiking and mountain biking but the M5 should beat it in almost every way. It should be the perfect carry/travel companion. I never have sold the original M because the 22mm f2 is that good. I just bought the 11-22 and plan on supplementing it with the 55-200 and 15-45. Looking forward to getting out there with this kit.


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## Zv (Sep 19, 2016)

Busted Knuckles said:


> This really isn't a pro camera - though I see some pros using 50/60/70D cameras fairly frequently (I have seen a multi camera set up using T3i for video??)
> 
> Take the guts out of this, put a FF sensor on it (same resolution) and drop it into a 6d body...
> 
> ...



When 6DII comes out you'll pretty much have your wish. With DPAF it will essentially operate as a mirrorless if you want it to. Very high probability of 6DII having DPAF.


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## Arctic-Winds (Sep 19, 2016)

A lot of people have been complaining about the lack of native prime lens for the M5. What's interesting is that here in the UK, all of the pre-orders come with the EF-EOS M adapter bundled with it. Perfect if like me you've already got a selection of EF lenses but it means that anyone who buys this as their first Canon camera will be introduced to and have full access to the Canon ecosystem. It's sort of like the gateway drug of cameras.


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## Sharlin (Sep 19, 2016)

Arctic-Winds said:


> A lot of people have been complaining about the lack of native prime lens for the M5. What's interesting is that here in the UK, all of the pre-orders come with the EF-EOS M adapter bundled with it. Perfect if like me you've already got a selection of EF lenses but it means that anyone who buys this as their first Canon camera will be introduced to and have full access to the Canon ecosystem. It's sort of like the gateway drug of cameras.



Yep - in other European countries as well AFAICS. It might be a special campaign by Canon Europe, not sure if it's just a preorder bonus or something that's going to last.


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## -pekr- (Sep 19, 2016)

Uh oh Canon, here's Panasonic's answer to the M5 - https://www.cinema5d.com/the-much-awaited-panasonic-gh5-has-been-announced/


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## d (Sep 19, 2016)

-pekr- said:


> Uh oh Canon, here's Panasonic's answer to the M5 - https://www.cinema5d.com/the-much-awaited-panasonic-gh5-has-been-announced/



I think you'll find the GH5 targets a different market - it's certainly going to priced a lot higher.


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## Sharlin (Sep 19, 2016)

d said:


> -pekr- said:
> 
> 
> > Uh oh Canon, here's Panasonic's answer to the M5 - https://www.cinema5d.com/the-much-awaited-panasonic-gh5-has-been-announced/
> ...



Yep, Canon is obviously not targeting videographers like Panasonic is.


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## -pekr- (Sep 19, 2016)

d said:


> -pekr- said:
> 
> 
> > Uh oh Canon, here's Panasonic's answer to the M5 - https://www.cinema5d.com/the-much-awaited-panasonic-gh5-has-been-announced/
> ...



Well, I know - I am well invested Canon and Elinchrom user, so it was mostly a sarcastic post for the Canon naysayers  Well, otoh interesting info indeed - I like any innovations on the market, keeps me interested!


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## Woody (Sep 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ... In 2015, Canon's one line of MILCs surpassed the full Panasonic lineup of MILCs to become #3 in Japanese sales, if that's not 'taking it to Panasonic', what is? Sure there's a gap...a widening gap in MILC sales where Canon leads Panasonic, and a narrowing gap where Canon is catching up to Sony (who lost the #1 spot to Olympus last year).
> ...



Nope to what?

From *Japan* http://bcnranking.jp/award/section/hard/hard94.html:


AWARD 2016 Olympus (34.5%) Sony (24.8%) Canon (13.6%)
AWARD 2015 Sony (34.3%) Olympus (22.3%) Panasonic (11.9%)
AWARD 2014 Olympus (28.9%) Sony (26.5 percent) Panasonic (14.2%)
AWARD 2013 Olympus (29.8%) Panasonic (23.3 percent) Sony (20.1 percent)
AWARD 2012 Olympus (36.6%) Panasonic (29.3 percent) Sony (27.3%)
AWARD 2011 Panasonic (38.7%) Sony (32.2%) Olympus (29.1%)

From your Sansmirror link:

"...We had Sony at about 12% of the overall ILC market last year, which put their mirrorless number somewhere around 1.4m. And from Canon’s recently stated numbers, we’d have to guess that they were somewhere above 300k units for mirrorless last year, and are now growing significantly. 

It’s tough to assess the precise positions in mid-year—especially with this year’s quake affecting most makers, but not Canon—but I’d say those three positions are still pretty much a safe bet at the moment, though the order is changing. *Canon will almost certainly pass Olympus this year and move into the number two spot*."

Bear in mind Canon only has a few miserable MILCs and lenses out there...


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## privatebydesign (Sep 19, 2016)

-pekr- said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > -pekr- said:
> ...



Innovations hold little interest to me unless they actually make a difference to my stills output. The Profoto D2 1000's look very interesting, it will make a difference to my images.


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## -pekr- (Sep 19, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> -pekr- said:
> 
> 
> > d said:
> ...


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## privatebydesign (Sep 19, 2016)

Moving subjects!

The D2 1000w version is much more appealing than the B1 for outside shooting, and a Vagabond Lithium gives you the mobility.

But the D2 is more than ETTL, it has 1000w of HSS! It has 20fps in a comparatively light weight and easily transportable package. I see the D2 as being an even better B1.


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## lw (Sep 20, 2016)

-pekr- said:


> Uh oh Canon, here's Panasonic's answer to the M5 - https://www.cinema5d.com/the-much-awaited-panasonic-gh5-has-been-announced/



Perhaps the G80/85 is more Panasonic's answer to the M5

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_G80_G85/

_The G80 / G85 also looks strong compared to the Canon EOS M5 announced a few days earlier.

The Canon has

a larger and higher resolution 24 Megapixel APS-C sensor
Bluetooth to aid Wifi negotiations
and (probably) more confident phase-detect AF thanks to Dual Pixel CMOS AF

but the Lumix G80 / G85 has

built-in stabilisation
weather-proofing
a larger viewfinder image
fully-articulated screen
4k video with all of Panasonic's 4k photo modes

Plus the Lumix is two thirds the price of the Canon._

In the UK the G80 is £699 and the M5 is £1049.
In the UK when you pre-order you get a free battery grip with the G80, a free EF adaptor with the M5

On top of that you can add that the G80/85 also has

No AA filter
focus stacking (only 4k photos)
focus bracketing
Intervalometer
Zebras and other video tools
electromagnetic shutter
Pop-up flash is a wireless commander
optional Battery Grip

Both have touch AF, and ability to move the focus point using touch.
Both have similar IBIS + OIS combined stabilization.
Both have wide choice of lenses - native or adapted.

So choose between bigger sensor or more features - and price...


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## Josh Denver (Oct 11, 2016)

Versus the Panasonic g80, the EOS M5 has a bigger sensor, 24mp, much higher dynamic range (80d vs gh4), much better lowlight performance, better AF system, usable vs non-usable video AF, headphone jack, and most importantly Full compatibility with Canon glass for use as a 100℅ reliable B-cam for Canon glass, 

Of course the g80 has its advantages, mainly high detail video (VERY), zebras and IBIS with manual video lenses, etc. 

The M5 is the first Canon MILC that I can make an argument for against another MILC! 

A home run only lacking a UHD mode of a very highly detailed HD mods.


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