# Sony A77II



## Rienzphotoz (Jun 9, 2014)

Interesting video on Sony's new "Lock-on AF: Expand Flexible Spot"
Sony a77 Mark II 12fps And Lock-On Autofocus


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm not sure WTF Canon and Nikon are doing but Sony is innovating to the point I am becoming VERY tempted to completely jump ship. 

An A77ii and A6000 look really good and I could afford to purchase a new body every year.


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## jrista (Aug 11, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> I'm not sure WTF Canon and Nikon are doing but Sony is innovating to the point I am becoming VERY tempted to completely jump ship.
> 
> An A77ii and A6000 look really good and I could afford to purchase a new body every year.



Don't forget that Sony uses a lossy "raw" file format. Their technology is good, but currently they are gimping it with a crappy image file format (which, given that it is lossy compressed, cannot legitimately be called "raw").


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

Excellent point. The largest part of my work is sports. While I use to shoot all RAW, sports will convert you to jpg real fast for those moments. 

I'm doing nothing at the moment but waiting for announcements from Sony regarding successors to the A6000 and rX10. I may jump in with my big toe.


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## m (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm not sure what I should take out of this video or if I understand it.

In the first half it shows the possibility to automatically change active focusing points according to the movement of the subject.
That's sound interesting indeed.

The second half seems to have the goal of convincing me that any other AF technique is useless in this situation.
The argument is that the focus point fails to "catch" the subject.
However, I don't see him pointing that focus point at a subject.
It's moving around the field and it doesn't come to me as a surprise that it doesn't focus at anything particular if you don't point it at anything particular.

Furthermore, the first demonstration of the tracking AF point is initiated by focusing with exactly that same AF point.
So all the arguments he rises in the video against a single AF point still hold true against the tracking AF, as it needs an initial "catch" to get started.
If the red player was slightly out of the AF point when he half-pressed to focus, it would have locked onto the background as it did later in the video. The tracking AF point would be of no use in this situation as it's purpose is to keep something in focus, not get it there in the first place.

That's at least my impression. Please somebody explain this to me.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 11, 2014)

It seems to me to do exactly what my 5D MK III does, I don't see the point in claiming this is new, except to Sony maybe.

That's how tracking works, it hands off to other focus points as the subject moves, and has a setting to prevent a subject crossing the main subject from grabbing the focus.

What am I missing that other camera makers have not had for a long time?


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

Once you use the Flex point to lock on to a moving subject, you no longer have to keep that focus point on the subject. The flex point passes the focus points off to other focus points across the EVF. You can let the subject move across the FOV and that subject stays in focus. The Flex point locks focus when depressing the shutter button half way. Whatever you pressed the shutter button halfway down on it stays locked on until it exits the screen or it 

This is not the end all be all feature. No, it is not like a 5Diii or 1DX, I have both and can attest to this.

This is far more sophisticated and it is progress by a camera manufacture. Real progress. I really hope Sony pushes Canon and Nikon to up their game, soon.


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## jrista (Aug 11, 2014)

I just watched the video, and *wow, what a load of crap!* This is what Canon's 61pt AF system (and before that, their 45pt and 19pt AF systems) have been doing for years! This is exactly what Canon's AF systems do in all points mode...they LOCK onto a subject, then track that subject. With the 5D III and 1D X, the AF system is also very highly configurable, and comes with several preconfigured AF modes for different kinds of subject motion, as well as full custom configurability. (You can even assign different AF modes to different custom user dial modes for quick and easy access.)

Canon's system allows you to do full subject tracking in all points mode, but also has several zone modes (where instead of using all AF points, it will just use a selected zone of AF points that you can move around the entire grid), as well as expansion modes (where it will let you pick a primary AF point, and then utilize either the four or eight surrounding points to assist). Canon's tracking is also better than what was demonstrated in the video...the reviewer was trying to say that the camera did not lose focus on the guy in red, but it WAS los*ing* focus...because by the end of the sequence, both the red and black guys who were crossing paths were OOF. Canon has a configurable tracking "switch rate"...it will try to keep focus on it's previously tracked subject (using a hysteresis of the previous AF frames) for as long as you configure it, then switch to a closer subject. You can configure this tracking switch rate from very slow through very fast. Canon wouldn't have lost focus on the red player at all, period. 

Another thing about Canon's AF system, especially on the 1D X, it would NEVER lose the subject's face. In the video, the Sony was focused on the guys chest and knees most of the time, but no one want's a knee in focus and the face slightly out of focus. The 1D X ties the meter and AF system together via a dedicated processor that can do face recognition (which, actually, works with birds and dogs as well, possibly other wildlife. ) Once the face is identified, Canon can maintain the AF lock on the same subject, and on his face, the whole entire time. 

So, I'm sorry, but the reviewer in this video is full of crap when he says this kind of AF system has never been done before. MASSIVE LOAD OF BULL SH*T!!


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## jrista (Aug 11, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> Once you use the Flex point to lock on to a moving subject, you no longer have to keep that focus point on the subject. The flex point passes the focus points off to other focus points across the EVF. You can let the subject move across the FOV and that subject stays in focus. The Flex point locks focus when depressing the shutter button half way. Whatever you pressed the shutter button halfway down on it stays locked on until it exits the screen or it
> 
> This is not the end all be all feature. No, it is not like a 5Diii or 1DX, I have both and can attest to this.
> 
> This is far more sophisticated and it is progress by a camera manufacture. Real progress. I really hope Sony pushes Canon and Nikon to up their game, soon.



What your describing is exactly how Canon's 61pt AF system works in all points mode. It does EXACTLY the same thing...it will use whatever focus points, out of the entire grid, to keep the subject it originally locked onto and is now tracking, in focus. 

I also own the 5D III...that's exactly how it works for me. So either you are not using your 1D X and 5D III correctly, or your just not using the right AF mode on them. 

Sony's flex point is no more sophisticated than what Canon introduced several years ago. For that matter, Nikon has been doing this for even longer! And Nikon's AF system, which is also tied into it's high res RGB metering sensor, has a large library of reference images that it uses to identify what kind of subject your tracking (which supposedly gives it cues as to subject behavior...however it still doesn't seem to work as well as Canon's 61pt AF system in practice...both the D800 and D4 these days don't perform quite as well as the 1D X in sports and other high action shooting based on reviews.)


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

Maybe I am misunderstanding the Sony benefit but with one in my hand it works much better and faster than my 1DX. 

I use Case 5 mostly and if someone gets in the way long enough, it switches to the person in-between. This was not the case with the a6000. That also means you have to maintain your focus point on the subject, this is not the case with the Sony. It passes it off from one point to another. It literally moves the focus points as you track from one side of the EVF to the other side if you get behind or lost tracking your subject. If my 1DX does that, I am completely out of the loop.


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## eml58 (Aug 11, 2014)

jrista said:


> So, I'm sorry, but the reviewer in this video is full of crap when he says this kind of AF system has never been done before. MASSIVE LOAD OF BULL SH*T!!



Totally Agree, it's been done.

But jrista, you need to stop holding back, just say what you really mean


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 11, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> Maybe I am misunderstanding the Sony benefit but with one in my hand it works much better and faster than my 1DX.
> 
> I use Case 5 mostly and if someone gets in the way long enough, it switches to the person in-between. This was not the case with the a6000. That also means you have to maintain your focus point on the subject, this is not the case with the Sony. It passes it off from one point to another. It literally moves the focus points as you track from one side of the EVF to the other side if you get behind or lost tracking your subject. If my 1DX does that, I am completely out of the loop.



Case 5 is just a quick pick, you can tweak the timing of all the events. Even my G1X picks and sticks to a subject as it moves around the screen. You are describing old technology, or there is something new that was not clearly described.


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## jrista (Aug 11, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> Maybe I am misunderstanding the Sony benefit but with one in my hand it works much better and faster than my 1DX.
> 
> I use Case 5 mostly and if someone gets in the way long enough, it switches to the person in-between. This was not the case with the a6000. That also means you have to maintain your focus point on the subject, this is not the case with the Sony. It passes it off from one point to another. It literally moves the focus points as you track from one side of the EVF to the other side if you get behind or lost tracking your subject. If my 1DX does that, I am completely out of the loop.



If you shoot sports, Case 5 is probably not the best option. That one uses a medium tracking switch rate (the "Tracking Sensitivity" setting), so it's designed to jump shortly after a closer subject moves into the frame. Case 5 and 6 are what I use for bird photography. Birds can and do erratically change direction on a dime...it isn't quite that way with sports.

You want to be using Case 2 if you don't want the camera to switch subjects once it's tracking, as that uses -1 for the Tracking Sensitivity setting. You can edit it and put it to -2 if you want, then it will really stick to a subject, even if multiple other potential subjects pass in front of or near to your tracked subject.


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

Love the responses. Even the more energetic ones. ;-)

I have a football assignment coming up this Friday or Saturday (I think). I will switch to Case 2 and see what happens. Anything that makes this better for me I am all for it. For high school I carry my 1DX and 300 2.8 and that is it. I tried my M with 22 as a nice second body but it just to slow shooting sideline photos. I swear a GoPro on a stick with remote would be better. 

I will report back. In the mean time, I am going to purchase a Sony camera and use it for sideline wide angle stuff. I know the RX10 won't suffice for action but the a6000 should. Plus, it is light and id definitely easier taking video (I can get 60 fps at 1080 (I am sure someone will correct that statement if I am wrong. ha!)).


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

But we are all clear on my 1DX I have to keep my focus point on the subject I am tracking where the A77ii or A6000 I do not?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 11, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> But we are all clear on my 1DX I have to keep my focus point on the subject I am tracking where the A77ii or A6000 I do not?



No. That's the point of tracking, it follows the subject all over the screen switching focus points as they move, at least my 5D MK III and G1X does.


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

Then maybe Case 2 will solve my problems.


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## jrista (Aug 11, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> But we are all clear on my 1DX I have to keep my focus point on the subject I am tracking where the A77ii or A6000 I do not?



No, you do not. The 1D X will change which focus points are used, because it is tracking for you. You can either use all points mode, or one of the zone modes, and it will use all of the available points in the selected mode. You do not have to do anything as far as keeping any particular point on the subject once tracking has started (and that occurs as soon as the subject is locked for the first frame.) 

If that is NOT working for you, then you have a problem with your 1D X.


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

This is curious because sometimes I have 2 or 3 photos out of focus for no reason then. I assume I lock on to the subject by placing the subject in my focus point and depressing the shutter halfway (or using the back button). 

If this is the indeed the case, I do have a problem with my 1DX because that is exactly how I do it.





jrista said:


> canonvoir said:
> 
> 
> > But we are all clear on my 1DX I have to keep my focus point on the subject I am tracking where the A77ii or A6000 I do not?
> ...


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## jrista (Aug 11, 2014)

canonvoir said:


> This is curious because sometimes I have 2 or 3 photos out of focus for no reason then. I assume I lock on to the subject by placing the subject in my focus point and depressing the shutter halfway (or using the back button).
> 
> If this is the indeed the case, I do have a problem with my 1DX because that is exactly how I do it.
> 
> ...



You keep saying focus point. That makes me think you are using single point AF mode. You don't want to use that mode for sports or any kind of AF that requires tracking. You want to use either AF Point Expansion Mode (which will utilize the 4 or 8 points surrounding the selected point), AF Zone modes (which let you pic a grid of points smaller than every point in the array), or all AF points mode. If you want to have some control over what region of the frame is used for AF, but want to use a lot of AF points for tracking, you should be using zone mode. 

If your using a single point AF mode, then that's your problem. You've then configured the camera to use only one single point, and it will only ever use that point until you change it, or choose a different mode.


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## canonvoir (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for hanging in there with me. 

I believe I don't have one piece of this puzzle setup correctly. 

I use the 4 and 8 expansion points all the time. It is pretty rare in football to use one single point. Do I have to define a zone of points that are available for handoff in addition to the expansion points? 




jrista said:


> canonvoir said:
> 
> 
> > This is curious because sometimes I have 2 or 3 photos out of focus for no reason then. I assume I lock on to the subject by placing the subject in my focus point and depressing the shutter halfway (or using the back button).
> ...


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## Dylan777 (Aug 11, 2014)

I watched 1st half of this video. There is nothing new for for 5D III + 1Dx. 

There are 6 cases in both 5D III + 1DX. Both cameras allow users re-tuning the AF setting, something we all must learn. Know what you are shooting and tailor it to the shooting condition( VERY POWERFUL  )

Shooting with 1dx in the P mode and let the camera to choose the focus point, it doesn't work.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2014)

For those interested in how innovative the "new" Sony AF system is, here is a copy of my Canon 1V manual, it is a film camera that came out in 2000, 14 years ago.

I have been taking auto changing AF tracking points for granted since I got my 1V's in 2003.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2014)

jrista said:


> So, I'm sorry, but the reviewer in this video is full of crap when he says this kind of AF system has never been done before. MASSIVE LOAD OF BULL SH*T!!



The reviewer! It is Mr Gary, I'll say anything to sell my $60 $2 piece of plastic that can be done just as well with a milk carton (Google it), Fong.

Clearly he needs a reality check, so much of what he says is factually wrong it is painful.

Or to put it like jrista, WHAT A LOAD OF BULL SH*T!!


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## Steve (Aug 13, 2014)

Heh, its kind of funny and y'all are gonna jump down my throat but the a77 II is basically what everyone here is saying they want the 7DII to be: a high mp crop camera with ultra fast burst speed and 1DX/5DIII style AF system for <$2k


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