# One other hoped-for feature on the 7D2



## 20Dave (Jul 28, 2014)

In order to keep my shutter speed fast (for my 400mm lens without IS) and an F-stop a little less than wide open for a greater depth of field, I need to set the camera to manual. With those two settings fixed, in order to adjust the exposure, I need to manually adjust the ISO.

With auto-ISO enabled, the Manual camera setting isn't really fully manual. It would be great if the camera allowed exposure compensation for the "not quite manual" setting where shutter and f/stop were fixed but ISO was automatic. [BTW, let me know if this is already a feature and I missed it somehow.]


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## luckydude (Jul 28, 2014)

On my 5DIII this just works. What body are you using?

Edit: nevermind, I misunderstood what you wanted (thought it was just auto iso but you want to over/under expose).


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 28, 2014)

Recent bodies, I believe including the 70D (not certain) have a functional Auto ISO in M mode (although only the 1D X allows EC in that case). I expect the 7DII will have it as well.


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## stefsan (Jul 28, 2014)

20Dave said:


> With auto-ISO enabled, the Manual camera setting isn't really fully manual. It would be great if the camera allowed exposure compensation for the "not quite manual" setting where shutter and f/stop were fixed but ISO was automatic.



+1
I miss this functionality on my 7D as well…


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## IslanderMV (Jul 28, 2014)

Auto ISO works on the 60D and 7D in manual mode.


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## crashpc (Jul 28, 2014)

This is kinda schisophrenic, to put some of settings in manual mode to auto mode, and then still with manual mode wanting other settings to compensate for this mixture. You really don´t know what you want, right? 
You can do what you want in AV or TV modes. With manual, you are in charge, you have nothing to compensate, and if they allowed some glitch or stupid customers request of auto ISO at manual mode, than it will be everything messed up.


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## Orangutan (Jul 28, 2014)

IslanderMV said:


> Auto ISO works on the 60D and 7D in manual mode.



Almost. EC doesn't work for auto-ISO on my 60D.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 28, 2014)

crashpc said:


> This is kinda schisophrenic, to put some of settings in manual mode to auto mode, and then still with manual mode wanting other settings to compensate for this mixture. You really don´t know what you want, right?
> You can do what you want in AV or TV modes. With manual, you are in charge, you have nothing to compensate, and if they allowed some glitch or stupid customers request of auto ISO at manual mode, than it will be everything messed up.



Couldn't disagree more. M mode with Auto ISO is like aperture _and_ shutter priority. I select the DoF I need and the necessary shutter speed to stop (or show) motion, and I get a metered exposure in rapidly changing light. Being able to apply EC to bias the metering is plus.


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## IslanderMV (Jul 29, 2014)

Orangutan said:


> IslanderMV said:
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> > Auto ISO works on the 60D and 7D in manual mode.
> ...



*True*, But I did not say the 60D had EC. Actually, I was corroborating neuro's statement _"Recent bodies, I believe including the 70D (not certain) have a functional Auto ISO in M mode"_.

In my style of shooting there have been rare instances where overriding the metering system for backlighting might have been helpful - otherwise manual with auto ISO and a carefully selected metering mode gets you very close in functionality.


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## Orangutan (Jul 29, 2014)

IslanderMV said:


> Orangutan said:
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Didn't mean to criticize, just putting in my 2 cents. I've been trying to use my 60D for birds; for that, Manual + AutoISO + EC would be very helpful.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 29, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> crashpc said:
> 
> 
> > This is kinda schisophrenic, to put some of settings in manual mode to auto mode, and then still with manual mode wanting other settings to compensate for this mixture. You really don´t know what you want, right?
> ...



+1

Canon is late to the show on this one, as usual. Its a hugely nice feature that you cannot get with TV or AV


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## 20Dave (Jul 29, 2014)

luckydude said:


> On my 5DIII this just works. What body are you using?


I have a 5DIII also. Sorry for my poorly worded initial post as well as going offline for 8 hours after posting (post-and-run...). 

I think that eventually people understood what I was getting at. I know that I can shoot in M mode with a fixed shutter, fixed f/stop, and auto-ISO. However, EC isn't an option in that setting. I double-checked the user manual and it says that "exposure compensation can be set in the P/Tv/Av shooting modes". All that I'm hoping for in upcoming cameras is to add M* to the supported modes for exposure compensation, where M* = M with auto-ISO enabled.

I guess that the thinking is that if you are in M, then the two dials would most often be used to adjust the shutter speed and the f/stop, so you run out of dials to adjust EC.


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## telemaq76 (Jul 29, 2014)

you can do that only on 1dx and maybe other 1d series body but not sure, maybe 1d4

Auto-iso works great on 5d3 but there in no EC and i agree it s a lack. I often needed it for indoor sport photography.


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## scottkinfw (Jul 29, 2014)

I understand what you mean, and it is not schizophrenic. I have wished this feature myself, and I usually shoot manual. It would be really nice to be sure.

sek



20Dave said:


> luckydude said:
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> > On my 5DIII this just works. What body are you using?
> ...


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## alexanderferdinand (Jul 29, 2014)

Auto- ISO WITH EC:
Strange thing: I don`t miss that on my Canons, but on my Fuji X100s....


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## tapanit (Jul 29, 2014)

20Dave said:


> All that I'm hoping for in upcoming cameras is to add M* to the supported modes for exposure compensation, where M* = M with auto-ISO enabled.
> 
> I guess that the thinking is that if you are in M, then the two dials would most often be used to adjust the shutter speed and the f/stop, so you run out of dials to adjust EC.


Some cameras, notably including Ricoh GR which I happen to own, have a separate "TAv" mode, which is basically "M with auto ISO and exposure compensation", whereas in regular M mode you can't set ISO to auto at all. A bit strange perhaps, but works. More important though is that it does have enough dials for shutter speed, aperture and exposure compensation, re-purposing a rocker button that's usually used for ISO setting in other modes (which of course also makes changing ISO harder, requiring at least one extra button press).

Thinking of Canon's ergonomics, I guess EC in M would have to be behind some button-plus-dial combination, or especially if they add a separate TAv mode, either shutter speed or aperture could be done that way and EC directly (ideally customizable any way you like).


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## Vossie (Jul 29, 2014)

I miss this feature too and its a reason why I only rarely shoot in M-auto ISO. With the current design of the Canon bodies it will be difficult to implement as you would need a 3rd control dial to quickly change the 3 parameters (Av, T and EC).


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## FEBS (Jul 29, 2014)

Vossie said:


> I miss this feature too and its a reason why I only rarely shoot in M-auto ISO. With the current design of the Canon bodies it will be difficult to implement as you would need a 3rd control dial to quickly change the 3 parameters (Av, T and EC).



This was one of the reasons I bought a 1dx which has EC on M with auto-ISO. The feature is really simple to implement my opinion, as it is only firmware in the body. This feature was only added in one of the latest firmware updates for the 1dx. It's very easy to access form the display frm the backside. Also with all the possibilities for the button on the 1dx you might always be able to find a solution for direct access this EC. 

By the way: great feature for all those shooting action like sports and wildlife.


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## pknight (Jul 29, 2014)

Auto ISO with EC is one feature that I truly hope is on the new model. I have my 7D set for +2/3 EC wherever possible, as the default exposure is consistently dark. With my new Tamron 150-600 I want to keep the shutter speed high (1/1000 sec max) and the f-stop shut down a bit. Manual with Auto-ISO works fine with this setup, except that I cannot dial in the EC I want.

This is also why I hope that the high ISO IQ of the new model is improved. My setup will select some pretty high ISOs, and EC would push that even further. The 150-600 is a lens for good light, but better high ISO performance would extend its useful range a bit.


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## Old Sarge (Jul 29, 2014)

I have read complaints about not having EC using auto ISO in a manual mode and I usually considered it a silly argument, probably because of my age and being a film user for three fourths (plus) of my life. Reading this discussion has changed my attitude. Although I am primarily a TV man (and have been since my Canon F-1), I can really see using manual mode with auto ISO if EC were available much of the time. But the EC would have to be easy to set, a wheel or rocker arm would seem to be best but there isn't really enough real estate for another wheel on most bodies. Solve that problem and I think it is a good idea I would like to see implemented. How does the 1DX do it?


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## luckydude (Jul 29, 2014)

Old Sarge said:


> I have read complaints about not having EC using auto ISO in a manual mode and I usually considered it a silly argument, probably because of my age and being a film user for three fourths (plus) of my life. Reading this discussion has changed my attitude. Although I am primarily a TV man (and have been since my Canon F-1), I can really see using manual mode with auto ISO if EC were available much of the time. But the EC would have to be easy to set, a wheel or rocker arm would seem to be best but there isn't really enough real estate for another wheel on most bodies. Solve that problem and I think it is a good idea I would like to see implemented. How does the 1DX do it?



Dunno on the 1DX but looking at the buttons on a 5DIII or a 7D could the joystick be pressed into service? Not perfect but seems like it might work or does it have a use already?


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## FEBS (Jul 29, 2014)

Old Sarge said:


> How does the 1DX do it?



In the pdf http://cpn.canon-europe.com/files/education/technical/eos_1d_x_explained/AF%20guide_EOS-1DX_V2_eng.pdf you can find on page 28 a possible solution for assigning EC to a button. 

Be patient: it will take some time to open this pdf.

They assign EC to the set button. Afterwards you can change easily the EC by pushing SET and turning the mail dial.


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## Bob Howland (Jul 29, 2014)

I have both a 7D and 5D3 and, no, EC doesn't work with auto-ISO in M with either one. And you're not the only one who very much wishes it did. 

There is another gotcha with auto-ISO in M, that being how the camera responds when auto ISO hits its max or min, mostly its min. This is mostly an issue on partly cloudy days during hectic days at the race track. When the sun comes out from the clouds, the auto-ISO setting can easily go below 100. The user should be able to tell the camera to use a faster shutter speed or to stop down the lens in that case. Nikon apparently does a much better job with this issue.

Adding these features is just firmware, meaning really easy to fix.


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## FEBS (Jul 29, 2014)

Bob Howland said:


> I have both a 7D and 5D3 and, no, EC doesn't work with auto-ISO in M with either one.



Canon has only one of the current bodys that has the possibility of EC in M, that's the 1Dx


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## scyrene (Jul 29, 2014)

I'd love this! Can it be added with a firmware update, or is there some reason why the 1Dx can do it but not, say, the 5DIII?


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## FEBS (Jul 29, 2014)

scyrene said:


> I'd love this! Can it be added with a firmware update, or is there some reason why the 1Dx can do it but not, say, the 5DIII?



Canon did add this feature in a firmware update for the 1Dx during the last year. They didn't do that for any other body, so 5Diii, 7D, 70D are all missing this feature right now.


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## 20Dave (Jul 29, 2014)

FEBS said:


> Old Sarge said:
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> > How does the 1DX do it?
> ...



I just found that the 5DIII can fairly quickly change ISO as well (p. 327 of the manual), but it is disabled by default. You have to hold down the set button while turning the small dial next to the shutter button. You can't go into auto-ISO with this method, but you can go out of it and adjust the ISO while looking in the viewfinder. Not as straightforward as EC, but I'll give this a try.

Thanks


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## crashpc (Jul 29, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> crashpc said:
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> > This is kinda schisophrenic, to put some of settings in manual mode to auto mode, and then still with manual mode wanting other settings to compensate for this mixture. You really don´t know what you want, right?
> ...



No, I actually understand your needs, would be happy to have this program in machines, but why in the world should this be in Manual mode? Manual is called manual, because it actually IS manual. I´d add your needs to some other program. Messing it all with EC + auto ISO is really wicked to want in manual mode.


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## FEBS (Jul 29, 2014)

crashpc said:


> No, I actually understand your needs, would be happy to have this program in machines, but why in the world should this be in Manual mode? Manual is called manual, because it actually IS manual. I´d add your needs to some other program. Messing it all with EC + auto ISO is really wicked to want in manual mode.



Which program then?

av: aperture is chosen, shutter speed is calculated by metering, you might combine this with auto-ISO
TV: shutter speed is chosen, aperture is calculated by metering, you might combine this with auto-ISO
M: aperture and shutter speed is chosen, if ISO is chosen then you have full manual, if auto-ISO is chosen, then metering will calculate the needed ISO. 

So, the place in the M program seems very logical to me, much better then adding a new program


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## slclick (Jul 29, 2014)

My most hoped for feature? Announcement and release


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## TexPhoto (Jul 30, 2014)

I do get a kick out of my friends who shoot manual, and drone on and on about it. But of course they are just watching the meter in the viewfinder... 

I Use Manual Auto in some sports situations, and Yes, I'd like to have Exposure Compensation in this mode.


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## East Wind Photography (Jul 30, 2014)

on the 5diii and 1dx you can program the set button to activate ISO on one of the wheels. Forget auto ISO since you will ultimately get more noise than you want. Use full manual and adjust ISO with set button and top wheel. I've even learned to fire the shutter with my middle finger when speed is of the essence.


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## Old Sarge (Jul 30, 2014)

FEBS said:


> Old Sarge said:
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> > How does the 1DX do it?
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I'm too old to be patient. I don't even buy green bananas anymore.  Thanks for the information, even though I'm old I love learning things.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 30, 2014)

FEBS said:


> They assign EC to the set button. Afterwards you can change easily the EC by pushing SET and turning the mail dial.



Personally, I have the Set button assigned to magnify the image to 100% at the focus point, which is broadly useful. I just use the Q button to access it.


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## FTb-n (Jul 30, 2014)

I shoot mostly in manual and do have my 5D3 configured with the SET button/top dial controlling ISO. But, it's awkward and I often forget to use it. When I need to change ISO quickly, I still press the ISO button then dial in the desired setting. 

So, for manual mode, there are three ways to change a setting -- top dial, back dial, and SET/top dial. And, there are three exposure settings that one may wish to change with some frequency -- shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. Currently, with the 5D3, you can re-assign either dial to aperture and shutter speed. It would be nice to be able to re-assign any of these three modes to change settings to any of these three exposure settings. Personally, I'd like the top dial set to shutter speed, the back dial to ISO, and the SET/top dial to aperture.


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## asmundma (Jul 30, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> crashpc said:
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> 
> > This is kinda schisophrenic, to put some of settings in manual mode to auto mode, and then still with manual mode wanting other settings to compensate for this mixture. You really don´t know what you want, right?
> ...



Agree with last speaker. This is the nice feature of 1Dx compared to 5d3 (EC). Actually i am using this mode the most.
Missing auto iso on the 5D2, made me dislike the camra at the end.


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## Zv (Jul 30, 2014)

crashpc said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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And why not remove the metering indicator and focus confirmation in M mode while we're at it, eh? Hey why not have it disable ALL electronics while in M mode after all it should be pure manual, right??


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## Luds34 (Jul 30, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> crashpc said:
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> > This is kinda schisophrenic, to put some of settings in manual mode to auto mode, and then still with manual mode wanting other settings to compensate for this mixture. You really don´t know what you want, right?
> ...



Exactly! I don't understand not having EC when one is still relying on the camera to calculate exposure. Especially since Canon tends to underexpose in my experience, this would be quite useful. I'm almost always in one of two modes: Av, or M with auto ISO. It's that latter one I'm in a lot and wish I could often bias the exposure a bit brighter.


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## tron (Jul 30, 2014)

Luds34 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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Exactly, this feature is maybe the only one missing from 5D3. Since it can be done in firmware it is a pity that it is missing


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## crashpc (Jul 30, 2014)

Zv said:


> crashpc said:
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This is very low. You're making it extreme. I just want it to work as manual program. The metering is there to show what camera thinks of the scene. Not what you have to do. With manual mode and even other modes I rely more on histogram than on exposure meter. Automatic is not manual any more. It deserves to fall under program mode.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 30, 2014)

crashpc said:


> Zv said:
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Wicked? 

Simple solution for you – don't set the ISO to Auto. It's not like that's mandatory. Since Auto ISO is available in the other modes, why not M? Or perhaps do away with Auto ISO...like the good old days of interchangeable sensors, a different one for every ISO and WB, and a limited number of exposures per sensor. What was that called again?


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## Old Sarge (Jul 30, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> crashpc said:
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Film??? : My first 35mm camera, about 1956 or so, was manual...to the point that it didn't even have a light meter nor did I, at the age of fifteen, own one. Every picture was made by mentally evaluating the scene. And it is surprising how many keepers I got.


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## Zv (Jul 31, 2014)

crashpc said:


> Zv said:
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No, the metering is there whether you like it or not in all modes, you can't switch it off unlike ..... AUTO ISO so you're argument there doesn't make sense. You can choose to use AUTO ISO or not it's just another tool like the meter or histogram - the camera is advising you of a recommended exposure by showing you an ISO value. (And what this thread was about is that we would then like to over-ride that value and therefore take back control!)

Just like in a car you can choose to use cruise control or not but it's you (hopefully and not one of them google self drive cars) that are calling the shots.


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## justaCanonuser (Jul 31, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> crashpc said:
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> > This is kinda schisophrenic, to put some of settings in manual mode to auto mode, and then still with manual mode wanting other settings to compensate for this mixture. You really don´t know what you want, right?
> ...



+1 
I agree much, EC in M mode would be a really nice feature of a 7D2


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## FEBS (Jul 31, 2014)

Zv said:


> Just like in a car you can choose to use cruise control or not but it's you (hopefully and not one of them google self drive cars) that are calling the shots.



+1
However, also in the car you decide at which speed you want to cruise, so that's manual. And what about the intelligent cruise controls that sees the car in front of you and does reduce speed in case it would be necessary. So, you don't drive on cruise control anymore then? I won't buy a car anymore without this type of cruise control. Just the same as I won't buy a body without the possibility to fix aperture and shutterspeed in combination with auto-iso and if that program is called M, just fine for me. 

M means you decide on aperture AND shutterspeed, perhaps a better name could be AvTv, but it is rather called M in the past as there was no auto-iso at the moment the industry called this M, so we have to live with that. In M you have to choose nowadays for auto-iso of manual iso. In last case you are using fully manual, but how do you decide to get the right exposure? By trial and error or by using an external light exposure meter or by looking at the internal exposure meeting.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 31, 2014)

FEBS said:


> ...perhaps a better name could be AvTv, but it is rather called M in the past as there was no auto-iso at the moment the industry called this M



Pentax has a TAv mode (Av + Tv), as someone else pointed out in this thread or another, in addition to M mode. 

Personally, I don't care what it's called (Nikon uses different symbols for Av and Tv), as long as the mode is available!


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## eninja (Aug 1, 2014)

This feature is the first thing I look on Magic Lantern.
But I didn't find an answer.

Also means, this is also what im missing on 6D. I thought it was a bug at first.

Like they say, a bug is not a bug if it is documented or stated somewhere.


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## Ale (Aug 1, 2014)

Auto-ISO + EC in M mode is something I've wanted Canon to include in their DSLRs for a long time. I like to shoot birds and many times there are situations where I would want to keep shutter and aperture locked while allowing the camera choose ISO, BUT still be able to adjust EC myself. This would be handy in situations like shooting against bright sky for example.

My current "solution" or workaround with 60D and 400mm f5.6L is to use Tv mode with auto-ISO and adjust EC if needed. This works mainly because for the most of the time I'm aperture limited and the aperture stays wide open. If there is a lot of light so that auto-ISO is already at minimum and the camera starts to adjust aperture, I then select faster shutter speed the keep the aperture at desired value (by default I use 1/1600s and adjust it if needed). However, I'm not quite sure about the "logic" that the camera uses between adjusting ISO or aperture as sometimes apeture starts to go smaller even if ISO is around 400 and there would still be some headroom to lower it down.


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