# Help me justify the 17mm TS-E



## Caps18 (Jan 28, 2012)

I have been reading the reviews, and know that this lens can do things my 16-35mm can't. But, what type of pictures besides buildings and cities can I expect to take with this? I will admit that I like the results from this lens that other people have produced. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xavibarca/5275899631/#in/photostream (check out his other pics too). I would like to know about taking long exposure night time shots with a full Moon, but no other lighting. I know that at f/4 and an ISO of 400, it will take a while.

I also like the ability to stitch together panoramic photos. I do need to look into an easy way to do that and HDR photos on my mac and be able to do them quickly.
http://hcam.de/en/canon-tse-collar.htm

Here is a picture that I found that shows what I don't like about the 16-35mm, but I'm not sure the way it was tilted here is perfect:
http://macdanzigphotography.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/ts-e-17mm-lens-review-part-2/
http://macdanzigphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/yg3w5295.jpg
http://macdanzigphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/yg3w5296.jpg
I really like the vertical lines in images and I have been having problems achieving that sometimes with the 16-35mm.

And I know that this lens gets great reviews. But, do you think that it is worth the price and weight when hiking? Maybe this lens, a 1.4x and a 50 f/1.2 wouldn't be a bad combination.


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## frisk (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm not into architecture photography myself, but if I ever were to get this lens, it would be for a totally different purpose - "fake miniatures" See for example.http://visualphotoguide.com/tilt-shift-photoshop-tutorial-how-to-make-fake-miniature-scenes/

Then again, I doubt I could convince my wife I really need yet another expensive lens for a purpose like that.


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## tron (Jan 28, 2012)

Well, I am personally not thrilled with miniatures but except from architectural photos which is its strength I would love landscapes that enjoy unusual (for a canon lens) quality at edges and corners even at open apertures. I mean one can always use the lens not only tilted and/or shifted but with no tilt and shift at all in order to enjoy ultra sharp landscapes.


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## Caps18 (Jan 28, 2012)

Speaking of special effects, the TV show Frontline uses this type of lens to blur the sides of a video/TV show to draw attention to one thing.


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## Cannon Man (Jan 28, 2012)

I own the ts-e 24mm 3.5L II and it came out the same time so i know that the construction and the build quality is the same in the 17mm. The ts-e 24II is the best built lens i have and it has the smoothest zoom ring possible.

I love my ts-e lens! Its not just for miniatures! There are endless applications on where to use the ts-e lenses!
i always have it on on my other camera. Now that i use other lenses it sucks that they dont have ts-e when i would need it. I shoot a lot of architechture and getting the lines straight is important.

I will get the ts-e 45mm and 90 II versions the secondnthey come out someday. The current versions are from 1990!!!

It is easy to justify it! Im sure it will be one of your favorite lenses. I would recommend the ts-e24mm II. If 24mm is wide enough for you.. Its 200-300$ cheaper too..


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## wockawocka (Jan 28, 2012)

It's a great lens although mine is for sale as I don't use it enough and as I'm going medium format the lesser used lenses need to be sold.

Nice thing about the TS-E lenses though is you can use the teleconvertors which gives you about 23mm on 1.4x and 34mm on a 2x (Which rocks).

It is INSANELY sharp, totally mind blowingly sharp.

I shoot weddings and portraits mainly with longer lenses but here's a few that I used it for:


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## RobertG. (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi, I got the TS-E 24L II a few months ago and really love this lens. The TS-E 17 is very similar and the wider angle of view would be amazing. But for proper landscapes I need filters and this is easier done with the TS-E 24L II. To use at least the lee filter holder on the TS-E 17mm you would have to adapt the lens cap by yourself because this lens has no filter threat.

Panorama shots are very easily done with the TS-E 17mm with the shift. Oft course the main application for the shift feature is architecture and it makes really a lot of fun with such a lens.
The tilt is quite useful to get an extended depth of field in landscape shots. The miniature effect is as big as with longer focal lengths.

BTW, do not get the Hcam lens adapter. It's too expensive and less useful than this one: http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Neue-Adapter-von-Zoerk  (you can buy it directly from Zoerk if you drop Mr. Zörkendorf an email (see his website). He will quote 220€ for it and it's available in the EU & USA). I got it myself and use it 90% of the time. This tripod collar is really useful to avoid parallax errors and because the larger hole in its base is directly located in the nodal point of the TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24L II. I put it onto a panorama plate and so I can use the shift *and* take panoramas. This not possible with any other lens + tripod collar combination with a Canon DSLR. Such a shifted panroma is useful for architecture and also for lanscapes.


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## Caps18 (Jan 31, 2012)

The filters are the main reason to go with the 24 TS-E. But I've started doing HDR photos, so some of that can be simulated in post processing. 

That does raise the question if I use my 1.4x on a 17 TS-E, could I use a square ND filter?

Does Canon make a tripod collar for the TS-E like this: http://www.adorama.com/CATMRA2B.html ? Could that or a similar model be modified to fit?


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## 5D Freak (Jan 31, 2012)

Just look at the beauty of the lens itself. Look into it from any angle and you will see almonst concetric circles - the beauty of such a thing - my precious. Here's one from me


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## Viggo (Jan 31, 2012)

RobertG. said:


> Hi, I got the TS-E 24L II a few months ago and really love this lens. The TS-E 17 is very similar and the wider angle of view would be amazing. But for proper landscapes I need filters and this is easier done with the TS-E 24L II. To use at least the lee filter holder on the TS-E 17mm you would have to adapt the lens cap by yourself because this lens has no filter threat.
> 
> Panorama shots are very easily done with the TS-E 17mm with the shift. Oft course the main application for the shift feature is architecture and it makes really a lot of fun with such a lens.
> The tilt is quite useful to get an extended depth of field in landscape shots. The miniature effect is as big as with longer focal lengths.
> ...



Where Can I buy that tripod-collar? And the one that fits the 24, maybe it doesn't fit the larger 17?


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## RobertG. (Jan 31, 2012)

Viggo said:


> RobertG. said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, I got the TS-E 24L II a few months ago and really love this lens. The TS-E 17 is very similar and the wider angle of view would be amazing. But for proper landscapes I need filters and this is easier done with the TS-E 24L II. To use at least the lee filter holder on the TS-E 17mm you would have to adapt the lens cap by yourself because this lens has no filter threat.
> ...



Hi, the Rear-Shift-Adapter is not listed on the Zoerk website. The Zoerk websites in German and English are outdated and will be updated anytime this year. I found out about the adapter through the website mentioned above and gave Mr. Zörkendorfer in Munich a call (I'm German, so it was easy for me). You can write him an email at info(at)zoerk.com to order the rear-shift-adapter. I guess he speaks at least some basic English. 

In November 2011 I paid €180 + €6 shipping + 19% VAT = €221,34 But he told me that he wants to increase the price soon. I don't how much the increase will be. The hand-made brass ring alone costs €90 + VAT. The aluminium chain is sources from a supplier and adapted by hand. The whole RSA looks and feels like a DIY product but it is very solid and does a great job because both tilt and shift can still be used (with the Hcam adapter only shift can be used). BTW, Canon does not offer any compatible adapter for the TS-E lenses.

The Zoerk RSA fits the TS-E 24L II and the TS-E 17mm, so it's the same for both lenses. For both lenses the larger 3/8" hole in its base is in the nodal point of each lens. The smaller 1/4" hole is not the nodal point, so I use an 3/8" to 1/4" adapter to put it onto the quick-release plate. This way there are no parallax errors, even with close objects just a half meter away.

Maybe you need to be a perfectionist to appreciate such an adapter but with a €2000 TS-E lens I'd like to get exceptional results or else I can also use the EF 24L instead.


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## RobertG. (Jan 31, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> The filters are the main reason to go with the 24 TS-E. But I've started doing HDR photos, so some of that can be simulated in post processing.
> 
> That does raise the question if I use my 1.4x on a 17 TS-E, could I use a square ND filter?
> 
> Does Canon make a tripod collar for the TS-E like this: http://www.adorama.com/CATMRA2B.html ? Could that or a similar model be modified to fit?



Hi, if there is no filter threat, how do you want to use the square filter? IMHO the only way (except for hand-held) is to build an filter adapter yourself. Here you can see how to do it: http://www.linsenschuss.de/index.php/blog/79-canon-ts-e-17mm-f4l-filterhalter. BTW, a ND filter can be used but there will be some light leaks between the lens and the lens cap with filter holder, which will lead to adverse effects with strong ND filters (LEE Big Stopper etc.) So you should put some black drape on it to avoid any stray light.


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## Caps18 (Feb 1, 2012)

Ok, that is impressive. I would have liked to have seen a picture of what it would produce. Maybe they used it on this image. http://www.linsenschuss.de/images/verpackungsgeschichte/0015.jpg or some of these http://www.linsenschuss.de/index.php/galerie/category/31-landschaft

I would think that adding in a tele-extender would eliminate the black border/vignetting from the photos...


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## ejenner (Feb 1, 2012)

You can't really do miniatures with the 17mm anyway, too slow, too wide. I see one in that review, but even for miniatures, it's lame.

No filters unless you rig up something is definitely it's downside. It does take x1.4 extenders fairly well (IQ still way better than the 17-40 or 16-35)

So... 

Fed up with tilting buildings and trees? Freaking tilting trees was the #1 reason I got this lens. Landscapes with tilting trees just don't work for me.

Heavy? Not sure how heavy the 16-35 is, but the TS-E 17mm is no heavier than the 24-105. In fact I would say I was pleasantly surprised how small and not-heavy (I won't use 'light') it is. I don't think twice about putting into my bag (same cannot be said for either my 70-200 f4IS or sigma 85mm 1.4). Of course the 17-40 is smaller and lighter. From the photos though I was expecting it to be bigger and heavier than it is. The front element isn't really even that big really. I think somehow those photos of it make it look like a monster (especially knowing the size of the body it is usually seen with).

Maybe I just had it in my mind that it was big when it really isn't that bad, definitely worth the weight when hiking IMO.

(EDIT: well allegedly it is heavier than all those lenses, but maybe becasue it's so good, I don't know, but it doesn't feel that heavy. I'm honestly surprised, although I've never weighed my lenses, so it could well be true.)

Anyway, I think (up/down) shift is the most useful feature, followed closely by sharpness and then tilt for some landscapes. Still tilt can make the corners less than stellar at very close distances (thinking 2-3 ft here). Shifting for panos works and does give you a bit extra, but don't expect to get 180deg panos or anything close. Once you get used to the controls I find it a pleasure to work with (on a tripod).

Is it worth it? Only you can answer that. There are no real alternatives at this FL, you cant even get a medium format or some other MF 3rd party shift lens. I think it is still only $2100 at B&H for a week - you'll probably be able to sell it for that in 6 months when the price is back up to $2400+.

If you have the money and you really think you want this lens, then you HAVE to buy it. That's basically what I did.

Also think about how many of these are there used to buy (OK, one above, but not that many)? Ever hear someone on a forum complain about how they got a TS-E 17mm and didn't like it? Maybe becasue at that price you'd better be sure you want one, but if you do you're not going to be wanting to sell it I can assure you of that.

EDIT #2: one other thing I really like about shift - you get a 17mm (or close, probably more like 18mm) FOV with an image that doesn't look overly wide. Something about it IMO just doesn't look like a 17mm shot. Maybe the lack of distortion in the corners also helps there.


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## Caps18 (Feb 3, 2012)

I can't believe I spent so much money on one lens, but I did it.  We shall see how well it performs next week in training while I learn all of it's abilities. And then next month for real.


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## Alan (Feb 23, 2014)

RobertG. said:


> Hi, I got the TS-E 24L II a few months ago and really love this lens. The TS-E 17 is very similar and the wider angle of view would be amazing. But for proper landscapes I need filters and this is easier done with the TS-E 24L II. To use at least the lee filter holder on the TS-E 17mm you would have to adapt the lens cap by yourself because this lens has no filter threat.
> 
> Panorama shots are very easily done with the TS-E 17mm with the shift. Oft course the main application for the shift feature is architecture and it makes really a lot of fun with such a lens.
> The tilt is quite useful to get an extended depth of field in landscape shots. The miniature effect is as big as with longer focal lengths.
> ...


Sorry, everyone, for resurrecting an old topic.

@RobertG
Robert, could you tell me what kinda head mount the Zörk adapter uses. Is it the Arca-Swiss type or the Manfrotto quick release type? Thank you in advance.


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## Alan (Feb 23, 2014)

Oh boy, looks like I won't be buying Zoerk's collar any time soon. I just called them to find out the price; it's 699 USD! No thanks.


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## Eldar (Feb 23, 2014)

Caps18 said:


> I can't believe I spent so much money on one lens, but I did it.  We shall see how well it performs next week in training while I learn all of it's abilities. And then next month for real.


You will not regret it. It is an amazing lens. I use it for some architecture work, but primarily for nature/landscape. The only problem will be that you will start thinking of the 24mm, which may have even more interesting areas of use, so you better start saving


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## privatebydesign (Feb 23, 2014)

RobertG. said:


> Hi, I got the TS-E 24L II a few months ago and really love this lens. The TS-E 17 is very similar and the wider angle of view would be amazing. But for proper landscapes I need filters and this is easier done with the TS-E 24L II. To use at least the lee filter holder on the TS-E 17mm you would have to adapt the lens cap by yourself because this lens has no filter threat.
> 
> Panorama shots are very easily done with the TS-E 17mm with the shift. Oft course the main application for the shift feature is architecture and it makes really a lot of fun with such a lens.
> The tilt is quite useful to get an extended depth of field in landscape shots. The miniature effect is as big as with longer focal lengths.
> ...



What a ridiculous thing. 

First, it is very easy to shift stitch without parallax, (though the occasions it is an issue are minute) just move the body in the arca swiss style clamp the opposite amount of shift, done. Note, the amount of parallax shown in this illustration is not from this setup, they had to use a field camera setup to create the problem to solve. http://www.outbackphoto.com/workflow/wf_58/essay.html

But more importantly, how in the hell are you supposed to get accurate tilt and swing movements with the lens clamped to the tripod? 

That has to be the stupidest way to spend money on an already expensive lens, ever, Canon go to the trouble of building a tilt shift lens and you spend money converting it to a shift only lens!

As for filter use on the 17 TS-E, I use the Fotodiox Wonderpana system, it is the only system I know that allows unrestricted shift movement. Note this includes a CPL http://www.amazon.com/WonderPana-145-Essentials-Kit-Aspherical/dp/B00AUK945M , they also do a system add on for grads http://www.fotodioxpro.com/wonderpana-66-freearc-kit-rotating-filter-system-holder-only.html .


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## Alan (Feb 24, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> What a ridiculous thing.
> 
> First, it is very easy to shift stitch without parallax, (though the occasions it is an issue are minute) _*just move the body in the arca swiss style clamp the opposite amount of shift, done.*_ Note, the amount of parallax shown in this illustration is not from this setup, they had to use a field camera setup to create the problem to solve. http://www.outbackphoto.com/workflow/wf_58/essay.html


The point of using a tilt-shift lens for panos is its straightforward shift capability. Otherwise, you might as well use a regular lens + pan head and _*just move the body in the arca swiss style clamp the opposite amount of shift*_.





privatebydesign said:


> But more importantly, how in the hell are you supposed to get accurate tilt and swing movements with the lens clamped to the tripod?
> 
> That has to be the stupidest way to spend money on an already expensive lens, ever, Canon go to the trouble of building a tilt shift lens and you spend money converting it to a shift only lens!


How? Easy: just tilt and shift your camera just like Schneider Kreuznach:


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## privatebydesign (Feb 24, 2014)

Alan said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > What a ridiculous thing.
> ...



Alan,

Buy the sounds of your reply you have never actually done any of this. 

First, show me an image taken with the 17 TS-E that was ruined by parallax due to shift stitching the lens and not the body, I have thousands of interiors where there are things close and far from the camera and none do, it can be done, but the vast majority of the time it just isn't an issue.

Second, even when it is an issue using the technique I linked to above 100% works, if you can't see that shifting the camera in a clamp accurately emulates a bigger sensor, in exactly the same way as holding the lens and shifting the camera, then we are on different pages, it is exactly the same technique just done in a different way. Mine costs nothing and does not negatively impact lens functionality, unlike the Zoerk "solution". To be sure, both techniques are totally different to rotating the camera with a regular lens and pano head, the "traditional" way panos are created. 

Third, my serious question was_ "how in the hell are you supposed to get accurate tilt and swing movements with the lens clamped to the tripod?"_ I am asking specifically about tilt and swing, not shift. If you don't know or understand the difference between front tilt/swing and rear tilt/swing I suggest you go read a field camera book, if you want control of your plane of focus without inducing perspective distortions then front tilt/swing is critical. To be able to do that with one of these lens clamps you would need a *very* nicely geared head, something along the Arca Cube line, certainly the Schneider Kreuznach illustration you posted with a ball head is a farce. Lets not forget, one of the biggest issues with the Canon TS-E lenses is the tilt/swing gearing, fractions of a degree make big differences, especially with a 17mm. To clarify, using front tilt/swing has no effect on perspective, using rear tilt/swing does, they are fundamentally different movements and the expensive lens clamps limit your accurate use of the far more useful front tilt/swing. 

Fourth, the 17 TS-E is very unusual in the tilt shift arena (along with the 24 though it is not as extreme) it is a retrofocus tilt shift, this has a huge, and counter intuative, impact on body alignment when using extreme tilt and swing.


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## quod (Feb 24, 2014)

Caps18 said:


> The filters are the main reason to go with the 24 TS-E. But I've started doing HDR photos, so some of that can be simulated in post processing.


There is a DIY ND grad holder that you can make for use with the TS-E 17mm. Here is a link about it:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1081875

I made one. It limits the tilt and shift functionality somewhat (it causes vignetting), but it works.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 25, 2014)

quod said:


> Caps18 said:
> 
> 
> > The filters are the main reason to go with the 24 TS-E. But I've started doing HDR photos, so some of that can be simulated in post processing.
> ...



I already posted a link to the Fotodiox Wonderpana filter holder system that is designed for the 17 TS-E and allows unrestricted shift and at least 4 degrees of tilt at the same time with no vignetteing.

P.S. If you go to page 7 of your Fred Miranda link you will see my posts back to here.


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## quod (Mar 7, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> I already posted a link to the Fotodiox Wonderpana filter holder system that is designed for the 17 TS-E and allows unrestricted shift and at least 4 degrees of tilt at the same time with no vignetteing.
> 
> P.S. If you go to page 7 of your Fred Miranda link you will see my posts back to here.


The Wonderpana system looks great, but the cost is the issue for me. The DIY is about $100.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 7, 2014)

quod said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I already posted a link to the Fotodiox Wonderpana filter holder system that is designed for the 17 TS-E and allows unrestricted shift and at least 4 degrees of tilt at the same time with no vignetteing.
> ...



quod, 

We are talking about a $2,200 specialised lens, filters cost money! Besides the kit I linked to includes a 145mm CPL, most CPL's that size cost more than that alone. Also, the DIY "solution" restricts functionality of your $2,200 lens, after doing this for many years I have realised that sometimes it is much cheaper to spend the extra money.

Learn from my mistakes


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 7, 2014)

quod said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I already posted a link to the Fotodiox Wonderpana filter holder system that is designed for the 17 TS-E and allows unrestricted shift and at least 4 degrees of tilt at the same time with no vignetteing.
> ...



The TS-e 17L is an expensive lens...and you are worrying about the cost of the adaptor?
Why spend money on the DIY adaptor when it inhibits the range of the tilt and shift...come on, why buy a TS-e 17L in the first place? Why not save even more money and get a 16-35IIL instead?


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## quod (Mar 7, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:
 

> The TS-e 17L is an expensive lens...and you are worrying about the cost of the adaptor?
> Why spend money on the DIY adaptor when it inhibits the range of the tilt and shift...come on, why buy a TS-e 17L in the first place? Why not save even more money and get a 16-35IIL instead?


No need for sarcasm. I built the DIY before there was a Wonderpana. I rarely use it. It works. Give it a rest, guys.

EDIT:
One other point worth noting is that the benefits of an ND grad can be derived in software. Before I had my adapter, I bracketed shots and used the ND grad feature in Adobe RAW to replicate the use of an ND grad.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 9, 2014)

quod said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > The TS-e 17L is an expensive lens...and you are worrying about the cost of the adaptor?
> ...



I don't use ND grads either. I haven't used an ND grad for around 5 years and sold my entire Lee collection to fund a 16-35 II L. The reason I use wondapana, is for the CPL and ND filter options. If I want to blend two exposures, often I want the sky or sea to be at a specific shutter speed and aperture setting. Often this can only be achieved with a set of ND filters, a tripod and a bit of careful metering.


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## RobertG. (Mar 11, 2014)

Alan said:


> @RobertG
> Robert, could you tell me what kinda head mount the Zörk adapter uses. Is it the Arca-Swiss type or the Manfrotto quick release type? Thank you in advance.



Alan,
The Zörk adapter has no specific head mount. It offers just a 3/8" mount and a 1/4" mount. See http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=8286.msg151511 I attached a cheap quick release plate to it with the 3/8" mount.

To say the truth I seldom use the Zörk adapter nowadays. A Markins L-bracket is attached to my 5D II for while now and I'm lazy, so I just put the camera onto the panorama plate. For landscape panoramas it works quite well because Kolor Autopano Giga makes really good job.


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## RobertG. (Mar 11, 2014)

quod said:


> ...
> 
> EDIT:
> One other point worth noting is that the benefits of an ND grad can be derived in software. Before I had my adapter, I bracketed shots and used the ND grad feature in Adobe RAW to replicate the use of an ND grad.



I often use the ND grad option offered by Lightroom but still carry a big selection of ND grads and reverse ND grads with me. Post processing has its limits, especially with Canon sensors. ND grads can make it much easier. See the attached picture, which I took recently with the help of the comination of a 3 stop reverse ND grad and a 2 stop reverse ND grad. No HDR technique was used but in post processsing I used the digital grad ND offered by Lightroom as well.


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## RobertG. (Mar 11, 2014)

Hi,

Without the help of reverse grad ND filters the picture shown in my post above would look like the attachment. It was a quick test shot some minutes earlier. The shot is a straight out of cam jpeg, just reduzed in size.
As you can see, the use of a filter adapter and some proper filters can really make a difference. Fortunately the new Lee Adapter Ring for the TS-E 17mm makes it much easier now.


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## EricFiskCGD (Mar 11, 2014)

If you want something long enough, you're going to find a way to get it. If you don't get it soon you'll go a little nuts with regret.


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