# Getting Canon 200-400 f4 L this weekend...advice?



## PureClassA (May 19, 2015)

Dance recital time again this year! I usually rent a a 1DX for the weekend and fire away with my trusty 70-200 IS II, but this year I had the guys at LensRentals.com toss in the 200-400 superbeast. I'll be shooting the stage from 100 feet away (huge recitals) so I can set it to focus from 20feet to infinity as I chase competition dancers back and forth across the stage nestled atop a sturdy manfrotto tripod.

I've never shot this monster before. 

Anyone have any advice on best practices? I'm thinking IS mode 3 considering I'm gonna need as much speed for tracking as possible. My aim is to set up in Manual mode at f4 (5.6 when switched into tele mode) at 1/400th and Auto ISO with maybe +2/3 exposure comp. LED walls and $50k of theatrical lighting changes metering every second.


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## Eldar (May 19, 2015)

I don´t know anything about the lighting, so EC is for you to decide. But the rest of it sounded pretty good to me. I love that lens.


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## johnnycash (May 19, 2015)

Hi, that sounds right, that's how I usually shoot in similar conditions. 

What do you mean by sturdy tripod? With ballhead or a gimbal? I rather shoot handheld if I don't have my gimbal available. For handshots I use IS mode 1 with the exception of panning shots.

Enjoy the Big Boy lens!


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## FEBS (May 19, 2015)

1Dx and 200-400, yes indeed a great combo. 

For your setup, I'm not sure if 1/400th will be sufficient as shutterspeed. 

As already mentioned, EC is up to you, I also use it most of the time, but my most used setting is +1/3. If using auto iso, and light is changing continuously, then look for the strongest light and take care that you don't have blown out highlights. I mostly use 1 point or 1 point with 4 extension points for my AF together with case 4. Be aware that case 5 and 6 are only performing well in combination with zone and all-focuspoints, as the logic behind is build on switching AF points if needed. As metering I would use center weighted. Spot is much to delicate with those dancers. 

A gimbal head is really needed to easily follow your dancers during longer period. 

Be aware that using a lens like this, might give you the GAS disease as many of us suffer on this site


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## FEBS (May 19, 2015)

johnnycash said:


> For handshots I use IS mode 1 with the exception of panning shots.



Me too. IS 1 is more stabilizing the view, so that it is easier to track the object with the focus point.


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## PureClassA (May 19, 2015)

Obviously a great deal of panning will be involved, but from 100 feet, my pans right to left wont be very exaggerated at all. The visible stage width is about 35 feet. Lots of fast erratic movement with the competition teams (ages 13-18) and easy shooting with the little kids. I will probably still shoot a few numbers (the little kids most likely) handheld with my 70-200 up closer as I have before. 

Tripod is a Manfrotto MT055X PRO and the head I think im gonna use is my Manfrotto 502 video head. It's a super smooth fluid pan head, and with the rotating tripod collar I guess don't need my tripod head to go vertical. I also have a Manfrotto MHX Pro3W head, but that seems to small for this thing. Considering my distance and height I don't suspect I'll need very much movement if any up and down. Just right left.

Yes, mostly debating right now (with this lens and my targets) which AF mode to use in camera. Appreciate the feedback guys. The beauty is being so far back, my focusing distances will be clumped up at the infinity end of the lens, which is great.

I'm gonna be so pissed off when I have to send this back Tuesday. It's arrives Thursday this week.


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## PureClassA (May 19, 2015)

Also hand shooting these things with just the 70-200 is a physical chore. They are over 3 hours long and 40 dance routines in each.... and there are FOUR of them in one weekend. I did all handheld last year. right at the stage. It worked great but damn I was sore. I couldn't possibly sling this monster for 12 hours the same way LOL.

Yeah, the lighting is a pain and always impossible to get right. White Balance changes a dozen times in a dance in some instances. Just a load of fun, but I love the end results. It can go from ISO 6400 to ISO 100 in 3 seconds from deep red LEDs on stage only to bright white 5600 kelvin.

I figure if I'm gonna challenge myself every year like this, I'm gonna do it with God's personal telephoto lens.


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## PureClassA (May 22, 2015)

BEAST MODE!


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## Eldar (May 22, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Also hand shooting these things with just the 70-200 is a physical chore. They are over 3 hours long and 40 dance routines in each.... and there are FOUR of them in one weekend. I did all handheld last year. right at the stage. It worked great but damn I was sore. I couldn't possibly sling this monster for 12 hours the same way LOL.


I handhold my 600/4L IS II a lot, even with 1.4xIII extender. But I do not manage to do that with the 200-400. It is not the weight, but the ability to operate the zoom-ring and switch the extender in and out, that is the problem.


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## Jim Saunders (May 22, 2015)

Your camera will up the ISO when you flip the extender in and out, which is one problem solved. I found IS mode 3 effective shooting small birds, take that as a data point. AF with one point expanded and spot metering is what I'd start with. AEB set to three shots 2/3 apart, on high speed drive, is an option if you can afford the noise.

Jim

PS Don't be surprised if you have a hard time sending it back!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 22, 2015)

I thought my 135mm L was better for that sort of show with its wide aperture, I could up my shutter speed to freeze some pretty fast action. I'd think that f/4 might force you to use a higher ISO than you'd like. Take along your 70-200 or a 135mm L just in case.


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## jcarapet (May 22, 2015)

when I saw the title I thought you had bought it, so my first thought was insure it, fast.

No idea what to do with it, but have fun!


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## PureClassA (May 22, 2015)

Agreed. Shot last year with the 70-200 and 1DX. Extra stop was great but it was all hand holding and constantly moving back and forth in front the stage at four recitals, three hours each, one weekend. Wrecked me. It's an enormous hall, so setting up from 90 feet away by the light booth and video guys with a longer lens, tripod mounted is gonna save me some grief. That said, I'm planning on combo shooting since many of the competition team numbers are in two or all four shows. One set with 200-400, another with 70-200 (or my 135 f2L).

The problem every year is that the light cues aren't set until the day of the opening recital, so I'm walking in blind and praying.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I thought my 135mm L was better for that sort of show with its wide aperture, I could up my shutter speed to freeze some pretty fast action. I'd think that f/4 might force you to use a higher ISO than you'd like. Take along your 70-200 or a 135mm L just in case.


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## PureClassA (May 22, 2015)

Actually did some hand holding last night during rehearsal. A prime, yes. This thing? Hell no. I could balance it fine, but there was no way to manipulate the tele switch and zoom while operating. And based on what I was getting last night, I may not even need to flip into 1.4x which would be fantastic not to lose that stop. There's always the Sigma 120-300 2.8, but I think once the lights are in tonight, f4 should be dandy. 



Eldar said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Also hand shooting these things with just the 70-200 is a physical chore. They are over 3 hours long and 40 dance routines in each.... and there are FOUR of them in one weekend. I did all handheld last year. right at the stage. It worked great but damn I was sore. I couldn't possibly sling this monster for 12 hours the same way LOL.
> ...


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## TAW (May 23, 2015)

Congratulations! I have used the 1DX / 200-400 combo a few times to shoot my kids doing school stuff on stage. For me, it probably isn't the best choice but it I enjoy mixing it up and shooting from different spots / angles / locations. Using the same lens every time just gets boring. There is something magical about being in a balcony and being able to get closeups of the kids.

I like using a mono-pod - takes the weight off the lens, helps keep the lens stable and let's me change locations very easily. My best results come when stabilization set to 1 (I know this isn't technically correct but it works best for me - probably because I am doing something else wrong ;D). 

I shoot in Manual, 1/800, F4 (it changes automatically if you engage the extender and most important, it changes back to F4 when you dis-engage it). I set exposure compensation to -1. I can easily fix in post and allows me to keep the shutter speed faster and not have a bunch of blurry images w/o pushing the ISO too much... Exposure is easy to fix by 1, blur is not 

While you have the lens, if you get a chance to shoot any outdoor sport(s) and there is adequate light, *DON'T DO IT* because you will never send the lens back ;D

Have a GREAT time!
tom


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## danski0224 (May 23, 2015)

Wouldn't it be cool if Canon dropped a 400-600 f/4 DO 1.4x IS?

;D


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## AlanF (May 24, 2015)

Not on my foot.


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## meywd (May 24, 2015)

AlanF said:


> Not on my foot.



you made my day ;D


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## Deleted member 91053 (May 24, 2015)

danski0224 said:


> Wouldn't it be cool if Canon dropped a 400-600 f/4 DO 1.4x IS?
> 
> ;D



Ditch the zoom and IS functions and I will be right with you!
A 600 F4 DO including a 1.4 extender would be very interesting - but no zoom and IS please.


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## Deleted member 91053 (May 24, 2015)

AlanF said:


> Not on my foot.



Tee Hee!


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## candc (May 25, 2015)

johnf3f said:


> danski0224 said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be cool if Canon dropped a 400-600 f/4 DO 1.4x IS?
> ...



A 600 f/4do is still going to have a 150mm front, and just as many elements as the regular 600. It would likely cost substantially more as well. It would be shorter but that is the only real benefit.


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## PureClassA (May 25, 2015)

Ok....... it's over.... I'm nearly blind in both eyes from staring through the OVF for 3 hours at a time.... 4 shows. 160 dance number.... 12,000 frames shot. Apart from the lower lighting than a camera would like, we have Fresnels, Leicos, LEDs, and a huge 12 foot tall, 30 foot wide solid LED wall all at different color temps....  yeah.

It's the one of the most challenging things I can image as a photographer, but it's always fun. I haven't even really looked at the RAW files yet closely, but what I have seen looks pretty good.

Auto ISO (much less AUTO anything) was still a no-go this year. There is still waaaaaaay to many lighting schemes on stage (and a fog machine to create the light beam effects) that wrecks hell on a metering system. Full manual with dialing on the fly as needed worked much better.


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## PureClassA (May 26, 2015)

Yeah. Boy this lens sucks.....


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## Jim Saunders (May 26, 2015)

You weren't kidding about the lights! Pink Floyd would be proud of that setup.

Jim


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## PureClassA (May 26, 2015)

Wish I could explain how utterly ridiculous it was to trap dancers moving at Mach 2 with at least 1/500th a second with all that crap going on! ISO 6400 all the way.



Jim Saunders said:


> You weren't kidding about the lights! Pink Floyd would be proud of that setup.
> 
> Jim


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## PureClassA (May 26, 2015)

When I say 12ft x 30ft LED wall... I mean 12ft x 30ft LED wall...... And don't even get me started on the damn smoke machines....


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## PureClassA (May 26, 2015)

Oh, smoke... Did I mention Smoke? Yeah, Smoke. I hate smoke. Constantly. Had to make all those lovely light beams from the LED gatling guns.


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