# More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 9, 2016)

```
More images of the Canon EOS M5 have appeared, along with more detailed specifications. We’ve added a few bits of information above and beyond the specification leak (in italics).</p>
<ul>
<li>Sensor: 24.2 million pixel APS-C CMOS</li>
<li>AF: dual pixel CMOS AF</li>
<li><em>**Touch AF</em></li>
<li><em>More AF points than any other camera (We don’t know the exact number)</em></li>
<li>DIGIC 7</li>
<li>Continuous shooting: 7fps</li>
<li><em>Continuous shooting in live view: 9fps</em></li>
<li>ISO Sensitivity: 100-25600</li>
<li>Video: FullHD 60fps, 5-axis electronic image stabilization</li>
<li>Dynamic NFC, Bluetooth built-in</li>
<li>Media: SD / SDHC / SDXC card</li>
<li>Size: 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6 mm</li>
<li>Weight: 427g</li>
</ul>
<p>**Touch AF: You can select autofocus points with your thumb by touching the rear LCD while looking through the viewfinder. Apparently it’s a very cool feature when using the camera.</p>

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## MaoKhan (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*

if it pans out, this camera if perfect for meeeee, been holding out since the M2 ;D


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## PureClassA (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*

This looks like a serious winner. I am actually interested now. I still have the orginal M. Canon is #3 in MILC sales without even trying right now. This may well be be a real market mover


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## StephenHopkins (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*

Expected it to be a bit less square but the specs look decent. Curious what the number of AF points will be.


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## davidj (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*

Looks great.

Why is live view continuous shooting faster than shooting with the viewfinder? I would have thought that the EVF would essentially be redirecting the signal from the main screen.

Is electronic image stabilization roughly the same as what other manufacturers do with in-body image stabilisation?

Oh, hang on. No 4K!? Canon is *******!


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## keriboi (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*

Seriously interested to replace my 50D. What lens options are there? Anything to rival the L 24-70ii?


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## OMD (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*

Have there been any rumors about a fast prime in the range of around 90mm (equivalent) being released anytime soon? This camera has me very interested. Also, will the 5 axis be good for stills as well as video?


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## pokerz (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



davidj said:


> Looks great.
> 
> Why is live view continuous shooting faster than shooting with the viewfinder? I would have thought that the EVF would essentially be redirecting the signal from the main screen.
> 
> ...


EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM ok?


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## candc (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*

Good looking camera. Much better than the "sketch" images. Seems to be good progress. I would like to see a ff version.


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## kbastomi (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



StephenHopkins said:


> Expected it to be a bit less square but the specs look decent. Curious what the number of AF points will be.



If dual pixel af is true, whole sensor is a af points..... 

Make it under 1200 USD, it will sell like a hotcake...


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## PureClassA (Sep 9, 2016)

I havent really used my original M much. The AF was too frustrating even after the firmware update. I have the EF lens adapter so tossing the 50 and 85 on there is a snap and a darn good lens for cheap with this camera. I do wish we'd get more M prime glass


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## PureClassA (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



kbastomi said:


> StephenHopkins said:
> 
> 
> > Expected it to be a bit less square but the specs look decent. Curious what the number of AF points will be.
> ...



I bet it wont even be $1000 (body only)


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## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



davidj said:


> Looks great.
> 
> Why is live view continuous shooting faster than shooting with the viewfinder? I would have thought that the EVF would essentially be redirecting the signal from the main screen.
> 
> ...



Looks nice. I am going to think about replacing 70d with this one instead of 80d. 1080p itself takes up so much space for my occasional use, I am not bothered about 4k. Touch AF feature sounds like a amazing thing.

**Touch AF: You can select autofocus points with your thumb by touching the rear LCD while looking through the viewfinder. Apparently it’s a very cool feature when using the camera.


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## PureClassA (Sep 9, 2016)

Sorry, was thinking of the T6. 80D is $1199 USD. This shpuld be about the same


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## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Sorry, was thinking of the T6. 80D is $1199 USD. This shpuld be about the same


Right up there with 80d territory and even more stuff (video IS, touch AF). Hopefully we will able to get it for cheaper here over the time. Is it time to get few EF-M lens (11-22mm, 22mm) and then wait for body price to stabilize? What do you guys think?


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## SBP_photo (Sep 9, 2016)

No 4k? The iphone 6, yes, the one that's a year old....and a phone....has 4k. I have been a Canon shooter for 15 years and they have never been so aggressively fearful of cannibalizing their own business. It's sad. I feel like the cinema division called the still division and was like "hey, 5D mkIV, I swear to god I'll kill you if you don't hobble your 4k by only having CF and SD card slots and only allow mJPEG and no log....and M5, you weak little camera, don't even THINK of 4k, did you hear me? did I stutter?" All joking aside, this is a real problem and Canon needs to embrace cannibalism as long as it means people are buying Canon.


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## brad-man (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



keriboi said:


> Seriously interested to replace my 50D. What lens options are there? Anything to rival the L 24-70ii?



No


OMD said:


> *Have there been any rumors about a fast prime in the range of around 90mm (equivalent) being released anytime soon?* This camera has me very interested. Also, will the 5 axis be good for stills as well as video?



No


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## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

SBP_photo said:


> No 4k? The iphone 6, yes, the one that's a year old....and a phone....has 4k. I have been a Canon shooter for 15 years and they have never been so aggressively fearful of cannibalizing their own business. It's sad. I feel like the cinema division called the still division and was like "hey, 5D mkIV, I swear to god I'll kill you if you don't hobble your 4k by only having CF and SD card slots and only allow mJPEG and no log....and M5, you weak little camera, don't even THINK of 4k, did you hear me? did I stutter?" All joking aside, this is a real problem and Canon needs to embrace cannibalism as long as it means people are buying Canon.


Hopefully everyone thinks like this and don't buy it. I want to switch to mirrorless finally.


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## Etienne (Sep 9, 2016)

DPAF ! ...... ;D .... that was my number 1 hope !!!!

Now please let there be no (low) moire and aliasing in video!

This is the most exciting news for me all year! A small camera that can do most things reasonably well, and with DPAF and touch-screen!

If Canon can announce a C100 Mk III done right this year, then I will be all set for the next five years. C100 mk III, 5D mk IV (please release a firmware update with 4K in a codec with smaller file sizes) and EOS-M5 .... covers everything I will need .


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## Etienne (Sep 9, 2016)

PS ... Canon should still fire whoever is responsible for withholding a fully-articulated LCD from this camera.


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## HaroldC3 (Sep 9, 2016)

Etienne said:


> PS ... Canon should still fire whoever is responsible for withholding a fully-articulated LCD from this camera.



+1000!!! Cmon canon!


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## dlee13 (Sep 9, 2016)

I can't wait to for the official announcement and to see pricing, the M3 is already a great body but this looks even better!


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 9, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> More images of the Canon EOS M5 have appeared, along with more detailed specifications. We’ve added a few bits of information above and beyond the specification leak (in italics).</p>
> <ul>
> <li>Sensor: 24.2 million pixel APS-C CMOS</li>
> <li>AF: dual pixel CMOS AF</li>
> ...


DPAF so maybe Canon marketing will be ballsy and say 19.36 Million AF points (assuming 80% frame coverage)


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## Woody (Sep 9, 2016)

I am so getting this!!! WOW!


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## Jopa (Sep 9, 2016)

Seems like an amazing camera, especially considering DPAF. Too bad the native lens selection currently sucks... How do these cameras work with adapted EF lenses?


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## verysimplejason (Sep 9, 2016)

Finally, DPAF!!! The specs seem perfect for me. Time to sell my old 500D.  I care less with 4K. Full HD is more than enough for me. It should bring the price down a little bit due to lack of 4K. Well, hopefully...


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## cellomaster27 (Sep 9, 2016)

WOW. I am genuinely genuinely interested in this. DPAF! decent ISO rating. Large enough with the megapixels for an APS-C. EVF. better body! Yes, no 4K is disappointing but not a major factor considering I hardly ever take video with my camera. Good job canon!!


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## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

Damn, that's actually nice looking


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## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

cellomaster27 said:


> WOW. I am genuinely genuinely interested in this. DPAF! decent ISO rating. Large enough with the megapixels for an APS-C. EVF. better body! Yes, no 4K is disappointing but not a major factor considering I hardly ever take video with my camera. Good job canon!!


Body design feels nice compared to those Sony slabs.


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## Stichus III (Sep 9, 2016)

Is that going to be a customizable dial on the top?

I certainly hope so!


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## sanj (Sep 9, 2016)

Ugly


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## cellomaster27 (Sep 9, 2016)

ritholtz said:


> cellomaster27 said:
> 
> 
> > WOW. I am genuinely genuinely interested in this. DPAF! decent ISO rating. Large enough with the megapixels for an APS-C. EVF. better body! Yes, no 4K is disappointing but not a major factor considering I hardly ever take video with my camera. Good job canon!!
> ...



You've handled one already? I have the original M... got it during the firesale. Worth the money but never ever liked the handling on it. 

If this thing has focus peaking, I'll just get an adapter for my FD lenses. Since it has built in 5 axis stabilization. BOOM. 50mm f1.2 FD lenses are going for ~$250? BOOM. Shoot, I'm excited.


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## Arctic-Winds (Sep 9, 2016)

This ticks all the boxes for me. I'm not fussed about the lack of 4k (means it's a bit cheaper) but the touch DPAF implementation sounds really interesting. Whilst it aint a looker, unless the reviews are poor this will be a perfect back up camera for me. Good thing I picked up a discounted EF to EOSM adapter earlier today


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## pokerz (Sep 9, 2016)

cellomaster27 said:


> ritholtz said:
> 
> 
> > cellomaster27 said:
> ...


5 axis electric stabilization needs image cropping for compensation, its not physical image stablization


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## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

cellomaster27 said:


> ritholtz said:
> 
> 
> > cellomaster27 said:
> ...


I have handled Sony's in bestbuy. My comments are based on pics posted for M5. I am going to keep a eye on this or 80d. I would like to get this if it matches 80d as it saves space and looks nice.


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## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

pokerz said:


> cellomaster27 said:
> 
> 
> > ritholtz said:
> ...



I thought you could only do 3 in software.. maybe they are combining with lens IS for 5.

the specs look far better than I thought canon could pull off I wonder what the battery life is like.

and it actually looks .. nice.

may be a nice hit from the #2 mirrorless company in the world.


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## douglaurent (Sep 9, 2016)

How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?


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## Woody (Sep 9, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?



Errr... how many people have 4K TV at home?


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## Stichus III (Sep 9, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?



I don't! 

I've never used the video function on any of my cameras. I suspect that a lot of people don't care about the video specs on their cameras.


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## ahsanford (Sep 9, 2016)

_That top view_ (knobstorm) + integral EVF + DPAF + beefier grip = this is starting to look like the 'logically tinier but not disgracefully controlled super-tinyness emphasized' rig many enthusiasts have been waiting for.

I still want to see more native and small EF-M lenses (more tiny f/2 primes!), but this is 2/3 of the way of metamorphosizing a lovely tiny commercial rig into a more conventional/flexible/intuitive/powerful tool for enthusiasts.

Eager to see how DPAF + EVF coexist. Touchscreen AF that affects the viewfinder AF selection? Is thumb-controlled-focusing the new eye-controlled-focusing?  #intrigued

- A


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## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?



whaaaaa


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## 9VIII (Sep 9, 2016)

I see TWO Custom Function slots on the mode dial!

You know Canon is taking something seriously when they add those.
Can't wait to see this baby in action.


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## ERHP (Sep 9, 2016)

No 'Food' mode though


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## pokerz (Sep 9, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > cellomaster27 said:
> ...


It wont be cheap as m3 or m10, since it greatly affects kiss series


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## privatebydesign (Sep 9, 2016)

Woody said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?
> ...



I do, a 70" one. But I get very little native 4K input and all 4K tv's currently have to do a good job up scaling 2k because that is what most of them are fed 99% of the time.

There are very few opportunities for 4K streaming or broadcasting yet, having got the tv I feel very ahead of the curve with it, don't know how long it will take the delivery options to catch up.


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## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?


80d produces nice high bitrate 1080p with nice colors without much work. My 70d takes up 32gb space to record around 30min of video in 1080p. How much it is going to be with 4k? Unless you are making money by selling your video work, it is lot of work to manage these video files.


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## ahsanford (Sep 9, 2016)

9VIII said:


> I see TWO Custom Function slots on the mode dial!
> 
> You know Canon is taking something seriously when they add those.
> Can't wait to see this baby in action.



I would dedicate one of the C functions to AI servo 7 fps burst work. I would call it "As fast as a $3499 5D4" mode. :'(

- A


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## Tyroop (Sep 9, 2016)

Dumb question, but what's going on at the top of the camera? I am a little confused. From the top and back I see an EVF with a hotshoe on top. In the second photo (M5_49) I see what looks like a small flash unit on top of the EVF. It's pointing up, but looks as if it could drop down to face forward. I didn't read anything about built-in flash in the spec.

Apologies if this is obvious or has already been raised. Quite excited. I've been an original M user for several years. Almost jumped to the M3, which I like, but it meant having to buy a lens that I already owned. Decided to wait longer and this looks very good.


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## 9VIII (Sep 9, 2016)

Woody said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?
> ...



The problem with 4K recording isn't the number of people who have a compatible TV, it's the number of people who have a compatible internet connection.
Even if I were to start a career on Youtube I wouldn't upload anything past 720p.


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## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...


Is it good idea to get some M lens (22mm and 11-22mm) and then get m5 down the line.


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## Woody (Sep 9, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?



BTW, how many APS-C MILCs can do that... properly? Sony definitely couldn't.

See http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30712.msg621705#msg621705


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## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

pokerz said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > pokerz said:
> ...



no it won't .. the rebels kind of stand on their own.


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## Woody (Sep 9, 2016)

9VIII said:


> The problem with 4K recording isn't the number of people who have a compatible TV, it's the number of people who have a compatible internet connection.
> Even if I were to start a career on Youtube I wouldn't upload anything past 720p.



Agreed. My point is that many people are asking for 4k... just because they have to keep up with the Joneses.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 9, 2016)

From hardware to software, this rumor m5 looks excellent )


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## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> _That top view_ (knobstorm) + integral EVF + DPAF + beefier grip = this is starting to look like the 'logically tinier but not disgracefully controlled super-tinyness emphasized' rig many enthusiasts have been waiting for.
> 
> I still want to see more native and small EF-M lenses (more tiny f/2 primes!), but this is 2/3 of the way of metamorphosizing a lovely tiny commercial rig into a more conventional/flexible/intuitive/powerful tool for enthusiasts.
> 
> ...



I suspect it's like the pany and nikon implementation where the lcd remains active and you can use your finger on the lcd panel to select your af point.


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## eosuser1234 (Sep 9, 2016)

Well if the shutter lag is like a normal DSLR, this could replace my 7Dm2. 9FPS and quick focusing, this is looking good.


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## KeithBreazeal (Sep 9, 2016)

thetechhimself said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > _That top view_ (knobstorm) + integral EVF + DPAF + beefier grip = this is starting to look like the 'logically tinier but not disgracefully controlled super-tinyness emphasized' rig many enthusiasts have been waiting for.
> ...



I remember seeing something a while back about auto switching between the EVF and rear LCD when you have your eye up to the EVF. Don't know if was Canon or not. It would be a nice feature and save time and eliminate another switch.


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## Ditboy (Sep 9, 2016)

thetechhimself said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > _That top view_ (knobstorm) + integral EVF + DPAF + beefier grip = this is starting to look like the 'logically tinier but not disgracefully controlled super-tinyness emphasized' rig many enthusiasts have been waiting for.
> ...


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## 9VIII (Sep 9, 2016)

Woody said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?
> ...



Good post.
I've really been wondering why people make such a fuss about 4K when everything has such a poor implementation.

Chances are we won't get "good" 4K until Canon starts making sensors dedicated exclusively to 4K recording.


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## Ditboy (Sep 9, 2016)

Tyroop said:


> Dumb question, but what's going on at the top of the camera? I am a little confused. From the top and back I see an EVF with a hotshoe on top. In the second photo (M5_49) I see what looks like a small flash unit on top of the EVF. It's pointing up, but looks as if it could drop down to face forward. I didn't read anything about built-in flash in the spec.
> 
> Apologies if this is obvious or has already been raised. Quite excited. I've been an original M user for several years. Almost jumped to the M3, which I like, but it meant having to buy a lens that I already owned. Decided to wait longer and this looks very good.



Partial list of specs. It has a small pop-up flash ala G5, but still has a hot shoe, that hopefully is full TT-L compatible. If so, goodbye 6D...


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## 9VIII (Sep 9, 2016)

eosuser1234 said:


> Well if the shutter lag is like a normal DSLR, this could replace my 7Dm2. 9FPS and quick focusing, this is looking good.



I have a suspicion that the "Live View" shooting does not include Autofocus.

Generally whenever you have two burst specs, the faster one is Manual Focus only.

Unless there really is something weird about the way they have the EVF wired up.


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## Etienne (Sep 9, 2016)

Woody said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with 4K recording isn't the number of people who have a compatible TV, it's the number of people who have a compatible internet connection.
> ...



You've got to be kidding! Are you guys over 90? 
I don't upload anything less than 1080p to youtube, and 4K is more about the ability to crop the video than it is about delivering in 4K.


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## waldi72 (Sep 9, 2016)

About that touch AF. I own Panasonic GX7 which have this function. It works really well. When looking thru viewfinder one can touch blacked-out rear display and move AF point around. It has two modes, one mode is "OFFSET" like computer mouse, second one is "EXACT" like in digitizing tablet.


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## OMD (Sep 9, 2016)

HaroldC3 said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > PS ... Canon should still fire whoever is responsible for withholding a fully-articulated LCD from this camera.
> ...



Yep. Put me down as another vote for a fully articulated touch screen. That's a bit of a disappointment.


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## dcm (Sep 9, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> thetechhimself said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



M3 with EVF already does this.


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## Ditboy (Sep 9, 2016)

I like the Movie Mode chosen with mode dial too. With the smallish size of the M3, I have accidently started video several times. This way, I assume, unless you are set in Movie mode, it won't start video. I hope, I don't like where the video start button is located. Big hands...
Also, is that a depth-of-field preview button?
Glad they kept the wheel around the shutter release, I really like it.
Could the Dual Func button/dial be similar to the ring at the back of the GX? It is multifunction.


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## Tyroop (Sep 9, 2016)

Ditboy said:


> Tyroop said:
> 
> 
> > Dumb question, but what's going on at the top of the camera? I am a little confused. From the top and back I see an EVF with a hotshoe on top. In the second photo (M5_49) I see what looks like a small flash unit on top of the EVF. It's pointing up, but looks as if it could drop down to face forward. I didn't read anything about built-in flash in the spec.
> ...



Thanks. I keep looking at the photos and it seems that the built-in flash is very cleverly located in from of the hot shoe. I am still a little confused because when it is lowered I can't see how it is concealed - compare photos 1 and 2.


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## OMD (Sep 9, 2016)

Just wish there was a fully articulated screen like with the Panasonic GH5 and an EF M portrait lens that is not too expensive- something like a 55mm f2 STM. Other than those two things this is pretty perfect.


----------



## Ditboy (Sep 9, 2016)

OMD said:


> HaroldC3 said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



The only real reason to have an articulated screen is if you do not you the viewfinder. Or use it for video when the camera is tripod mounted and you are shooting yourself. No 4K. No need articulation. I would rather the horsepower under the hood be used for DPAF live view continuous shooting mode. I've had an M3 since it was introduced to the world (not USA) and I use the flip up screen a lot. So fast to get a low angle view, then right back to the DVI-EVF for regular shooting. I've also had the 70D since it first came out and much prefer the flip. more than one Canon rep asked which I preferred. They must have listened. The flip up/down screen is the feature I miss most when using the 6D.


----------



## Luds34 (Sep 9, 2016)

Looks promising. Definitely am a big fan of the FPS numbers, I found those pleasantly surprising... not that I even shoot sports/action/wildlife hardly ever. Great to see a DPAF sensor making it to an M. That in itself officially defines this as the camera/moment that Canon is finally putting real effort into mirrorless.

Of course now, if they could follow up with a few EF-M lens releases and things would start to even look good!


----------



## Eldar (Sep 9, 2016)

Never thought I would consider one of these, but this one looks tempting.


----------



## Bennymiata (Sep 9, 2016)

I'd much rather have good 1080 than poor 4k like you get on phones.

This new camera looks very tempting..........


----------



## pwp (Sep 9, 2016)

This camera is the reason we'll never see an SL2. 

-pw


----------



## siegsAR (Sep 9, 2016)

Now I'm no longer anxious thinking about Sony As and Fuji XTs, hmmm. Only need something other than a DSLR that I can use most of the time with one prime on.


----------



## tomsop (Sep 9, 2016)

I have stuck with and suffered with the original m once they offered it on fire sale at 299. As long as these specs remain I will be ordering as soon as I am able, price will not be holding me back. I am glad my issues are finally being addressed and can't wait to invest in new lenses for the camera as well.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Sep 9, 2016)

I wonder if my L lenses will adapt. Never considered an M series before, but this looks very interesting. My 7D is the only crop body.(not counting the SL-1) Maybe I could retire the 7D with this little gem.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 9, 2016)

thetechhimself said:


> A,
> 
> See my comments on page 2. I think the on/off is for EVF, you tilt the screen 45 while in EVF mode, and look / tap down to use touch AF + EVF. Innovate. I think this sets the standard for future mirrorless AF implementation. Hope Canon has a patent for it, I can see SonyNikon copying it.



Innovate? ??? There is already camera that can do the touchscreen AF viewfinder...


----------



## -pekr- (Sep 9, 2016)

Hmm, 3.5-6.3? That's 6.3 at 45mm? That's slow as hell. What about faster lens options? And/or adapter? We've got some 1.4 Sigma Art, 70-200 2.8 IS II here 

This camera looks so ugly, that I actually started to like it  We will see, how it goes against the 80D chip.


----------



## mclaren777 (Sep 9, 2016)

If they eventually sell a kit with just the 22mm lens, I might be on board.


----------



## siegsAR (Sep 9, 2016)

mclaren777 said:


> If they eventually sell a kit with just the 22mm lens, I might be on board.


I would love that as well. But really its a 25mm I want most.


----------



## d (Sep 9, 2016)

Excellent - assuming the sensor is indeed a modified version of that in the 80D, this is exactly what I've been waiting for!

Hopefully they've tweaked the sensor's microlenses to deal with the heavy vignetting of the M3, and the AF is decently quick and accurate now (you'd think it would have to be to achieve 7 or 9fps).

This should nicely replace both my 100D and M3, and probably means I'll never buy the 80D I've been considering for a few months now.

Can we assume the same battery as the M3?

d.


----------



## AE-1Burnham (Sep 9, 2016)

Regarding styling: They did mention vintage or retro styling a while back, right? (see comparison with AE-1 Program, black). I see several style notes to this old SLR..?

Regarding specs: Cool! But I still want/need a Canon made "speedbooster" or focal reducer for my EF g-L-ass.


----------



## Frage (Sep 9, 2016)

> You can select autofocus points with your thumb by touching the rear LCD while looking through the viewfinder.



That is an awesome feature. I loved that in the Panasonic.
It seems there is no headphone jack.


----------



## R Jaay (Sep 9, 2016)

is there any adapter for EF and EFS lens can be use with this EOS M!!!...


----------



## R Jaay (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



pokerz said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Looks great.
> ...



Is there any adapter for EF and EFS lens to connect with this EOS M camera. If not... can Canon do this for us.


----------



## d (Sep 9, 2016)

R Jaay said:


> is there any adapter for EF and EFS lens can be use with this EOS M!!!...



Yes, it already exists.


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Woody said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > How cool is that. A 2017 camera model with 1080p video. Go Canon! Because who needs more than 2 megapixels?
> ...



Deja vu... Roll back just 10 years to when HD was introduced and the cry was "how many people have a HD TV at home?"

3 or 4 years later and you couldn't buy an SD TV anymore.

The same is happening again. Walk in to any TV retailer and its wall to wall 4K and they are no more expensive than good HD sets were last year.

3 or 4 years from now, 4K will be as ubiquitous as HD was. The same pattern will be followed.

Plenty of 4K content here in the UK including live sport like football and F1 www.sky.com/shop/tv/uhd/


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

thetechhimself said:


> It's been a long time coming.
> 
> Thanks CR and Canon.
> 
> I can see why they didn't release this alongside the 80D, it's effectively both a A6300 killer, but also, an EOS M version of the 80D. 7 frames per second tracking, and 9 for non-tracking with DPAF and DIGIC7? This is a Canon folks.



It all depends on how well it tracks. The 80D's performance is hardly stellar...
The A6300 does a good job because it has a high numer of focus points and a fast processor.
Digic7 will help, but if all the M5 in terms of AF is the same as the 80D then it wont kill the A6300 on AF ability.

But we don't know the full details of the M5's AF system yet, so who knows.


----------



## bholliman (Sep 9, 2016)

These specs and pictures definately have me interested! The M5 has me really excited about the M line for the first time. I can see the M5 and maybe an M11-22 being my next purchase.


----------



## VooDooZG (Sep 9, 2016)

I love it, can wait to have it 

it is good that there is no 4k because price will be normal - hope about 1000€ or less, compare to 80d there is not mirror and prisma so it should cost less


----------



## Meatcurry (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...



Whilst you're not wrong regarding the availability of 4K TVs, I don't think that sales are in the same league as they were when we moved to HD, just because all TVs for sale now are 4K doesn't translate into everyone has a 4K TV. Also the price of subscribing to Sky in general puts 4K content in the luxury bracket. Canon has a good grasp on what the market actually wants and frankly my guess is that 4K video is low on the list right now.


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> thetechhimself said:
> 
> 
> > It's been a long time coming.
> ...



Well, if the M5 really has DPAF you should compare it to the 80D's DPAF which arguably tracks much better than the discrete AF sensor. The A6300 has on the order of 100000 times fewer AF points than a DPAF sensor


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



R Jaay said:


> Is there any adapter for EF and EFS lens to connect with this EOS M camera. If not... can Canon do this for us.



Uh, the fact that there is an adapter for EF/EF-S lenses is pretty much one of the foundations of the whole M system. That's why it's called EOS and the mount EF-M.


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

Tyroop said:


> Ditboy said:
> 
> 
> > Partial list of specs. It has a small pop-up flash ala G5, but still has a hot shoe, that hopefully is full TT-L compatible. If so, goodbye 6D...
> ...



Hm? It seems to be exactly the same solution as every DSLR ever that has a popup flash. A hinge behind the hot shoe, with the flash standing on two legs that straddle the hot shoe.


----------



## asl (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > douglaurent said:
> ...



True, 4K is coming/is here for sure, been in the shops for years, although I don't even have a Tv I still I would like to record in 4k and I have good reason for it. 
But other than that the camera looks really nice I think, hope they continue in this direction also for fullframe and someday add 4K. Then I would get it to replace my old dslr.


----------



## Meatcurry (Sep 9, 2016)

Finally Canon gives us the mirrorless camera we've all been waiting for.....................wait hang on NO 4K and NO fully articulated screen ARRRRAAAAGGGGGGGG Canon are *******!


----------



## Daan Stam (Sep 9, 2016)

That looks really good.
If it had better video capabilities it could rival the gh4.


----------



## freejay (Sep 9, 2016)

The image stabilization is "electronic" (= software) only and therefore not for stills, but if it's as good as in the G5X for example, it will be very handy for video work.


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > thetechhimself said:
> ...



The reviews suggest different
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-80d-review/7

"When tracking subjects at a distance, the 80D's Face+Tracking mode is much more easily confused than when tracking nearer subjects that appear larger in the frame. This is not too surprising, as larger objects are easier to detect. Fast moving subjects also give dual-pixel AF a hard time, as the system isn't particularly fast at tracking a subject around the frame. Performance also drops during bursts. In our example above, focus actually shifted backward as our rider approached, only catching up by shot #13, before losing our rider again."


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Meatcurry said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > Woody said:
> ...



Exactly the same as was said when HD was introduced, and Sky charged an extra £10 for it...
Whereas there is no specific charge for UHD. You just need to upgrade to the latest Q boxes. My subscription didn't change one penny.
Like I said, deja vu


----------



## NorbR (Sep 9, 2016)

Wow. There's nothing I don't like about that spec list, nor about those pictures. This looks like exactly the camera I wanted. 

I see my poor EF-M 11-22mm, left without an M body for 6 months, jump up on my shelf with excitement. It was after all my 2nd most used lens overall (EF and EF-M combined) before I broke my M3 ...

In any case, I'm waiting to see the price, but anything south of a grand and I'm pre-ordering right away. Exciting


----------



## Tugela (Sep 9, 2016)

Meatcurry said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > Woody said:
> ...



The reason for shooting in 4K is that while you may not have a 4K TV now, at some point you will. 4K footage will age better than HD footage for that reason.

Another reason for shooting in 4K is that even if you don't have a 4K display, 4K footage downscaled to HD looks better and has fewer artifacts than native HD.

As for what the market wants, keep in mind that cameras like the a7S/R II and GH4 sold better than expected precisely BECAUSE they had 4K. It is definitely something that most people who shoot casual video in an enthusiast camera want.

The M5 should be capable of 4K if it has a Digic 7 inside, but it is probably disabled because the processor would melt down from the heat if they tried to use it. It is NOT because Canon thinks the market doesn't want it (and logically, why on earth would a customer opt not to have an advanced feature?)

Personally, I will never buy any camera going forward that did not include 4K video as an option. It is a decision I reached back in 2014 already, and it is the reason all my Canon stuff has sat in a box in my closet since last year.

I see nothing in this camera to change my point of view, unless they price it at the $300-400 range like the original EOS-M, since IMO that is all it is worth.


----------



## Tugela (Sep 9, 2016)

daaningrid said:


> That looks really good.
> If it had better video capabilities it could rival the gh4.



Except that the GH4 is a 2 year old camera that is about to be replaced by the GH5


----------



## stefang (Sep 9, 2016)

Looks promising. If only they could put a full frame sensor inside...


----------



## gn100 (Sep 9, 2016)

OMD said:


> HaroldC3 said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



Probably the side hinge for a fully articulated screen added extra bulk / width to the camera .... Canon are keen to keep small, so this is probably a compromise for size


----------



## gn100 (Sep 9, 2016)

ERHP said:


> No 'Food' mode though


What about Direct Print?
.... or Phone Mode? ;D


----------



## Meatcurry (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > lw said:
> ...



Errr....most people don't spend over £100 a month on sky, so for the majority it will be an expensive luxury. the vast majority of consumers aren't interested in 4K, this isn't like the rush to HD, which was more about moving from CRT TVs to flat screen.


----------



## Nado (Sep 9, 2016)

Tugela said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > lw said:
> ...


----------



## champion_gs (Sep 9, 2016)

it will be amazing mirrorless camera, Canon does it right. no 4K? well, I think it's not big deal. We know that even 6D MkII might won't get it either, it's 50:50, if 6D MkII get 4K, it's no more than what 5D Mark IV could offer. and it continues to 7D mark III, 90D and then it will be on rebel and EOS-M series... so don't bother to get it now, except canon will introduce new FF Mirrorless.. if you want 4K, get another brands, don't hope for canon! if it bothers you, just get another systems.


----------



## Woody (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> The reviews suggest different
> https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-80d-review/7
> 
> "When tracking subjects at a distance, the 80D's Face+Tracking mode is much more easily confused than when tracking nearer subjects that appear larger in the frame. This is not too surprising, as larger objects are easier to detect. Fast moving subjects also give dual-pixel AF a hard time, as the system isn't particularly fast at tracking a subject around the frame. Performance also drops during bursts. In our example above, focus actually shifted backward as our rider approached, only catching up by shot #13, before losing our rider again."



Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoNRXWFTFa4

From the 13:03 mark, a comparison between 80D live-view AF and 6300 AF was made. According to the reviewer, both cameras were EQUALLY impressive in terms of functionality, but given the ease of use of the 80D touchscreen, the advantage goes to the 80D. Of course, if single eye AF is desired, then only the A6300 has that capability.

DPReview is the same website that pointed out all the flaws of Canon tracking without uttering a single word about the pathetic low light AF of the flagship D4/D4s. The poor low light AF performance of the D810 only gets mentioned TWO years after its release.

Regarding DPReview:
- http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30176.msg605866#msg605866
- http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=70;area=showposts;start=30


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Meatcurry said:


> Errr....most people don't spend over £100 a month on sky, so for the majority it will be an expensive luxury. the vast majority of consumers aren't interested in 4K, this isn't like the rush to HD, which was more about moving from CRT TVs to flat screen.



My £100+ includes telephone and broadband, and multiroom.
The majority of people in the UK have Sky. The point is if they have Sports and Movies they can get them in 4K for no extra charge.

Most people in the UK would think spending £800 on a camera is a far greater luxury than subscribing to Sky...


----------



## bholliman (Sep 9, 2016)

Woody said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > The reviews suggest different
> ...



+1 DPReview is notorious for its anti-Canon bias, look to truly impartial review sites if you want a fair comparison.


----------



## Zv (Sep 9, 2016)

Can I edit 4K files the way I can edit HD using Windows Movie Maker? Because that's what I use to edit my 5 mins or so of video per year. I'm just an average guy with an average laptop with some very basic knowledge of video editing but do regular people really go around shooting 4K and edit there files on state of the art custom made PCs? Not anyone I know of. But that's just me, maybe I'm not in with the cool kids! 

The specs on this M5 look really good. I like the Dual Pixel, tilt screen, EVF and fps. Everything I ever wanted in an M. Seriously thinking of selling (or just giving away) my M and M2! But of course I'll be sensible and wait!


----------



## LDS (Sep 9, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> More images of the Canon EOS M5 have appeared, along with more detailed specifications.



Strange.... no one complained yet no WiFi, no GPS... ;D


----------



## mustafa (Sep 9, 2016)

Just tell me it has a mic input. Can live without headphone jack.


----------



## midluk (Sep 9, 2016)

mustafa said:


> Just tell me it has a mic input. Can live without headphone jack.


On nokishita (the original linked source) there are images of the sides with flap symbols for USB, remote trigger, mic and HDMI.
It also has an additional button that looks like WiFi on the right side.


----------



## d (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> The reviews suggest different
> https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-80d-review/7
> 
> "When tracking subjects at a distance, the 80D's Face+Tracking mode is much more easily confused than when tracking nearer subjects that appear larger in the frame. This is not too surprising, as larger objects are easier to detect. Fast moving subjects also give dual-pixel AF a hard time, as the system isn't particularly fast at tracking a subject around the frame. Performance also drops during bursts. In our example above, focus actually shifted backward as our rider approached, only catching up by shot #13, before losing our rider again."



Not a cash-for-comment, paid-for-by-Canon DPR review, so no surprise that DPR found some negatives to highlight.


----------



## AE-1Burnham (Sep 9, 2016)

midluk said:


> mustafa said:
> 
> 
> > Just tell me it has a mic input. Can live without headphone jack.
> ...



Thanks midluk!
Does it say "fullframe" anywhere?!? Hehe. 
Wow. If this was fullframe I would pay -- hmmm -- 4K for it..?! 8) 
-J


----------



## d (Sep 9, 2016)

Meatcurry said:


> Errr....most people don't spend over £100 a month on sky, so for the majority it will be an expensive luxury. the vast majority of consumers aren't interested in 4K, this isn't like the rush to HD, which was more about moving from CRT TVs to flat screen.



+1

Don't see the big attraction to 4k for casual/amateur video requirements - shooting in HD is more than enough for my needs - would rather pay a few dollars less a camera without 4k.


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

midluk said:


> mustafa said:
> 
> 
> > Just tell me it has a mic input. Can live without headphone jack.
> ...



It's for enabling/pairing bluetooth I think.


----------



## LDS (Sep 9, 2016)

mustafa said:


> Just tell me it has a mic input. Can live without headphone jack.



Apple has decreed audio jacks are over. And people say Canon is not up to date... ;D


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

LDS said:


> mustafa said:
> 
> 
> > Just tell me it has a mic input. Can live without headphone jack.
> ...



Ohh! Maybe you can use bluetooth headphones with the thing! (Only half joking actually)


----------



## BokehBalls (Sep 9, 2016)

stefang said:


> Looks promising. If only they could put a full frame sensor inside...



Why Mr. Fullframe?


----------



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2016)

I have been following all the discussion of the M5 just for grins, no real interest. Now I have a slight interest. As we age my wife has more trouble handling the weight of her 40D but the weight of the M5 is nearly 1/2 that of the 40D. Equipped with a EF-M lens this camera should feel really good for her. In that case the lack of 4K video is not a matter of concern since I doubt she has ever shot a minutes video on her phone and I know she hasn't on my 7D or 7DII. I shoot less than 30 minutes a year and then only if I need a video for one of the church ministries I'm involved in.

I now need to quit reading for grins and do some real research.


----------



## infared (Sep 9, 2016)

It looks like Canon finally stepped up the performance of their mirrorless camera...still needs prime lenses, etc...but that has to be the butt-ugliest camera I have seen in years. It looks like no design went into it at all...just function.
Camera by commitee?


----------



## njene (Sep 9, 2016)

Really have been anxious to get a mirrorless and canons offerings werent appealing at all.
The sony looked good and the fujis looked real nice - but the thought of getting into a completely new system - well its more stuff to have, more money, etc,etc

This m5 however looks so promising to me - has all the features I need. Hopefully it will come in at a reasonable price point ~ $1000 US 
It looks a tad big in the picture, but if it is close to the size and form factor of the m3 then I will be all over this camera.

Looks like Canon has seriously entered into the milc foray now.


----------



## Fleetie (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> The majority of people in the UK have Sky.


No, they absolutely do not.

And speaking personally, I would rather barbeque my own eyeballs while watching boxsets of "Songs of Praise" than watch football, F1 racing, or any other sport on TV, so for people like me, there is little to no 4k content available, unless I shoot it myself!


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Apart from 4K it still does look promising.

If it can do everything a A6300 can do (apart from 4K) it would still potentially be a better match for my EF lenses.

The key thing is have they have eradicated issues when using EF lenses on the M3. Otherwise its a non-starter if the only choice for best AF is native EF-M, or only STM lenses. Key for me will also be my Sigma EF-mount lenses performing flawlessly. (at least I have the USB hub to update their firmware if necessary)

If its an 80D in mirrorless form, and is at least as capable as an 80D, then it might tempt me if for no reason than it gets rid of MAF issues with my Sigma 150-600. 

I wonder if the body is going to be chunky enough to use it hand-held with my Sigma 150-600 or Canon 70-200F2.8? No problem with 70/80D bodies - but will this be comfortable enough?

The other issue is will it support wireless flash like Canon DSLR bodies? That would be nice. But that requires going back to EOS software I presume, and I am not sure thats going to be the case. 

I really wish it had 4K. But if the performance and price is OK then I might at least replace my 70D body with this.


----------



## Talley (Sep 9, 2016)

Just got the wife an M3. I told her to hold off but the M3 will be good for her until the price on the M5 comes down a bit.

Finally DPAF and built in viewfinder. Now they need to match Fuji in glass selection.


----------



## VooDooZG (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> If its an 80D in mirrorless form, and is at least as capable as an 80D, then it might tempt me if for no reason than it gets rid of MAF issues with my Sigma 150-600.



i also have Sigma 150-600C so does your Sigma work ok/like native with 80d in lv or not ? it will be big diffrence if m5 wont work with 3rd party lens like Sigma 150-600, Sigma 105Macro and Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC 

thx


----------



## pokerz (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> Apart from 4K it still does look promising.
> 
> If it can do everything a A6300 can do (apart from 4K) it would still potentially be a better match for my EF lenses.
> 
> ...



liveview DPAF in 80D= cipa 300
what will you expect from Eosm5 ? 8)


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

pokerz said:


> liveview DPAF in 80D= cipa 300
> what will you expect from Eosm5 ? 8)



M3 is 250. 
I expect the M5 might be about the same. Will it use the same M3 battery?


----------



## stefang (Sep 9, 2016)

BokehBalls said:


> stefang said:
> 
> 
> > Looks promising. If only they could put a full frame sensor inside...
> ...


To take full advantage of EF lenses.


----------



## Luds34 (Sep 9, 2016)

Zv said:


> Can I edit 4K files the way I can edit HD using Windows Movie Maker? Because that's what I use to edit my 5 mins or so of video per year. I'm just an average guy with an average laptop with some very basic knowledge of video editing but do regular people really go around shooting 4K and edit there files on state of the art custom made PCs? Not anyone I know of. But that's just me, maybe I'm not in with the cool kids!
> 
> The specs on this M5 look really good. I like the Dual Pixel, tilt screen, EVF and fps. Everything I ever wanted in an M. Seriously thinking of selling (or just giving away) my M and M2! But of course I'll be sensible and wait!



Trust me, you're not alone! 

I shoot a handful of home videos each year. I took it seriously enough that I put together a dedicated setup with a 2nd M (loaded ML), an external mic, the stabilized 18-55 zoom, and a bracket to help hand hold the camera. 1080p is plenty good enough for home videos as one only needs so much detail to capture baby's first steps, first words, etc. I can assure myself that years from now when we sit down and watch these old, very amateurish, home videos that the emotional responses, smiles to our faces will not be diminished because the quality is "only" 1080p.


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

VooDooZG said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > If its an 80D in mirrorless form, and is at least as capable as an 80D, then it might tempt me if for no reason than it gets rid of MAF issues with my Sigma 150-600.
> ...



Yes - in LV you don't require MAF. That's a key advantage of MILC AFAIC. But it still needs to be precise and accurate of course. 

The problem with the 150-600 is that it offers you 16x maf adjustments. (4x FL each at 4x FD).
That's a right PITA... My 150-600 may not be representative, but it does exhibit a bell curve of MAF adjustments, and different curves at different FL/FD. So you can't have 2 settings as the Canon body allows (wide/tele) . IME, I needed to set all 16 of those points to get accurate focus across the whole range.

I then made the mistake of updating the firmware and deleting all the adjustments which I mislaid my written copy of. So I have to do it all over again. 

It annoying to the point I am seriously considering replacing it with a Canon 100-400 II as that seems to be better optimized from the factory.


----------



## pokerz (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > liveview DPAF in 80D= cipa 300
> ...


DPAF consumes more battery than Hybrid AF, dont think it can maintain 250
200 slots per charge is reasonable.


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: More EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



keriboi said:


> Seriously interested to replace my 50D. What lens options are there? Anything to rival the L 24-70ii?


No company would make a lens that would compete with their own. Considering the M5 would be compatible with EF/EF-S lenses via EF adaptor, thats your solution.


----------



## Luds34 (Sep 9, 2016)

VooDooZG said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > If its an 80D in mirrorless form, and is at least as capable as an 80D, then it might tempt me if for no reason than it gets rid of MAF issues with my Sigma 150-600.
> ...



I think you should be fine. When I owned a 70D I believe my Sigma Art performed correctly. The old EX 50mm may not have. For sure a Tamron 17-50 I once had did not make use of the DPAF and fell back to the painfully slow contrast focusing in live view.

Either way, DPAF has been out for a while now so I'm sure Sigma's current fw supports it on all their current lenses.


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

SBP_photo said:


> No 4k? The iphone 6, yes, the one that's a year old....and a phone....has 4k. I have been a Canon shooter for 15 years and they have never been so aggressively fearful of cannibalizing their own business. It's sad. I feel like the cinema division called the still division and was like "hey, 5D mkIV, I swear to god I'll kill you if you don't hobble your 4k by only having CF and SD card slots and only allow mJPEG and no log....and M5, you weak little camera, don't even THINK of 4k, did you hear me? did I stutter?" All joking aside, this is a real problem and Canon needs to embrace cannibalism as long as it means people are buying Canon.


For what Canon is doing and how they're #1 in the market, I think they're doing just fine. People are still buying Canon. They aren't Nikon where they kill off their own products by releasing a newer version 6 months later (ala Apple). That is also why Canon gear holds its value longer than Nikon.

It's poor business to have one division encroach on another. You're a single company, you don't compete with your own.


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I wonder if my L lenses will adapt. Never considered an M series before, but this looks very interesting. My 7D is the only crop body.(not counting the SL-1) Maybe I could retire the 7D with this little gem.


It will work with EF/EF-S lenses with adapter.


----------



## IglooEater (Sep 9, 2016)

Could someone explain to me the difference between continuous shooting and continuous shooting I live view on a mirrorless camera? No autofocus tracking or metering?


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

LDS said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > More images of the Canon EOS M5 have appeared, along with more detailed specifications.
> ...


Considering that all of Canon's newer cameras are coming with WiFi, I'm sure the M5 will have it as well. Canon wants people to download and use their app.


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > liveview DPAF in 80D= cipa 300
> ...


M3's current price may be $250 but when it was released, it was $650-700. The M5 will probably be 900-1100 based on the specs. It won't compete with 80D pricing though.

As for battery, considering it being more powerful and different body style, I'm sure it will be a new battery.


----------



## rsdofny (Sep 9, 2016)

Is there a M4 that can be comparable to Sony A6300? Something small and compact for light travel and but better than my Sony RX100. The M5 looks like a mirrorless rebel with advanced features. I wonder why Canon does not put together a camera to go against the Sony Alpha 7R line.


----------



## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Sep 9, 2016)

A few things: 

1) Great spec list. On paper it looks great, so, for Canon, that probably means it will be pretty great. They tend to deliver on their spec lists.

2) For those concerned about battery - the M3 VASTLY outperforms its rating in real world use. I usually get 600-700 shots on a charge. My hope is that the bigger grips makes room for a slightly higher capacity battery, as both the IS and the DPAF might suck a little extra juice.

3) Canon desperately needs to update/replace the existing EF adapter. It worked better on the M/M2 than it does on the M3.

Encouraged that this might build on the good things about the M3 while dealing with the many unfortunate quirks of that camera.


----------



## Snzkgb (Sep 9, 2016)

Now this IS looking the thing I want as a backup for my 5d2 and everyday camera.
There are two questions I have:
1) How much it will cost
2) When it will start shipping


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Does this represent an accurate size comparison between M10 and M5?
Tried to line up the lenses


----------



## njene (Sep 9, 2016)

Snzkgb said:


> Now this IS looking the thing I want as a backup for my 5d2 and everyday camera.
> There are two questions I have:
> 1) How much it will cost
> 2) When it will start shipping



We are in the same camp

I love my 5d m2 and plan to keep working with it, but the m5 looks like it moght fit the bill to be an easy, carry around camera as backup or more relaxed shooting when out and about


----------



## Haydn1971 (Sep 9, 2016)

Size has increased considerably in the depth, which is manageable, but worryingly, the weight has piled on compared to the original EOS-M


----------



## crashpc (Sep 9, 2016)

Wonder what´s that IBIS thing. It would really do a lot for me.


----------



## K (Sep 9, 2016)

Why does every single thread on every Canon camera have to be tainted by all the 4K nonsense?

Seriously people, go get a real video rig if 4K is important to you. Who wants to do pro-level 4K videography on a small mirrorless camera anyway? Are these concerns even serious, or is this trolling? I don't get it.


Rant over -


This is looking promising, and if the mirrorless features are reasonably up to par - this will be a great camera. That means the EVF and other mirrorless only capabilities. 

For me personally, being a 1-card slot setup, I truly hope Canon implemented some sort of wireless file transfer function into this camera. At the very least so that I can save RAW to SD, while automatically transferring JPG via Wifi to my cell phone or other device. This would make it an awesome travel camera. No, I do not want use an EyeFi setup. I'd prefer native Canon functionality similar to what they've put out recently. The camera can stay out and capture great images, the cell phone stays in the pocket and collects images for sharing/backup.

Without that, this camera is useless to me. I'm not going on an expensive trip and depend on a single SD card to protect my images. I can't just get up and re-travel to different places around the world and recapture the moments and the sights.

I really believe that capability should be seriously considered and refined by Canon as much as possible, as it's the only thing that can bridge the distance between cell phones and cameras within reason and keep these type of cameras viable. I don't foresee cameras ever being Android or iOS based anytime soon, let alone having GPRS/CDMA comms. Therefore, small cameras MUST have the capability to easily and quickly (and automatically) send at least JPG files to the cell phone.


----------



## Crosswind (Sep 9, 2016)

If the EOS M5 has IBIS, does that mean that I should permanently turn off the optical IS in the lens in favor for the internal stabilizer?

I'd only do so, if IBIS would be more effective and/or draws less energy from the battery. I still don't understand why Canon would put it in there because they have so many IS lenses.


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

rsdofny said:


> Is there a M4 that can be comparable to Sony A6300? Something small and compact for light travel and but better than my Sony RX100. The M5 looks like a mirrorless rebel with advanced features. I wonder why Canon does not put together a camera to go against the Sony Alpha 7R line.


There is no M4 (which doesn't exist) or any compact cameras that is comparable to the A6300 unless its like the G7X or G5X


----------



## jebrady03 (Sep 9, 2016)

K said:


> Without that, this camera is useless to me. I'm not going on an expensive trip and depend on a single SD card to protect my images. I can't just get up and re-travel to different places around the world and recapture the moments and the sights.



Your fervor and exasperation seem as though they are born out of several negative personal experiences. Would you mind sharing with us the details behind the numerous SD card failures you had in the last, let's say, five years?


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

Crosswind said:


> If the EOS M5 has IBIS, does that mean that I should permanently turn off the optical IS in the lens in favor for the internal stabilizer?
> 
> I'd only do so, if IBIS would be more effective and/or draws less energy from the battery. I still don't understand why Canon would put it in there because they have so many IS lenses.



Nowhere does it say it has IBIS, this is again just a game of chinese whispers or something. The rumor talks about electronic (not optical) video stabilization. That is, digitally correct for camera shake by cropping a bit from the edges.


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

BTW, I somehow really like the design language of this thing, it's a bit awkward but in a charming manner. There's a nice "something old, something new" aesthetic there with nostalgia artfully combined with modern ergonomics. Lightyears ahead of the Sony MILCS that are basically boxes with a rounded grip glued on as an afterthought.


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

K said:


> Why does every single thread on every Canon camera have to be tainted by all the 4K nonsense?
> 
> Seriously people, go get a real video rig if 4K is important to you. Who wants to do pro-level 4K videography on a small mirrorless camera anyway? Are these concerns even serious, or is this trolling? I don't get it.
> 
> ...


99% sure it will have WiFi and GPS. All of Canon's newer cameras have it so why omit it? They will want to make the user experience and sharing of photos easier.


----------



## LesC (Sep 9, 2016)

Looks like it has the same sensor as the 80D? With smallish size but serious performance might be good when you want to travel light/use as back-up providing price is sensible.

Not bothered about 4K video either; comparing 1080 with 4K on my 48" 4K TV I find it difficult to notice any difference...

Yep, GPS would be nice - should be standard on all cameras now.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Sep 9, 2016)

Does anyone know how CIPA battery life is calculated for mirrorless?
Because if i use the viewfinder or LCD screen on the back full time and only take 1 picture every 5 minutes, the battery will only
last for 10-15 pictures probably.

It is different from a DSLR where the OVF is using almost no power.


----------



## LesC (Sep 9, 2016)

Body similar size & slightly heavier than the EOS 100D (SL1) lenses obviously smaller/lighter though....


----------



## 1kind (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> Does this represent an accurate size comparison between M10 and M5?
> Tried to line up the lenses


Based on the specs and everyone comparing it to the 80D, this is the size difference:







Rebel SL1 size is 116.8 x 90.7 x 69.4mm
EOS M5 size is 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6mm

So it is close to SL1's size. Just thinner and a hair smaller all around.


----------



## douglaurent (Sep 9, 2016)

Soon we will have the 10 year anniversary of Canon cameras with 1080p video, which is celebrated through Canon by releasing 10 new 1080p models.


----------



## expatinasia (Sep 9, 2016)

privatebydesign did some very nice .gif overlays to compare the size of the M5 with a few different cameras in this thread here:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30753.0


----------



## K (Sep 9, 2016)

Here's why I'm interested in this camera.

I'm in the market for a smaller, lighter weight camera (compared to a FF DSLR) - for travel and casual shooting with maybe the occasional use as a backup for the FF when I'm being lazy, which doesn't break the bank, has excellent IQ (24mp APS-C or better), built in flash, can utilize a multi-purpose super-zoom like an 18-135 or greater, and which has a data redundancy scheme of some type (dual cards or at least a solid wireless transfer solution).

Right now, the best choice for me is the Nikon D7200 with 18-200 VR.

The Nikon suits ALL the above requirements, and does so with perhaps the industry's best APS-C sensor. IQ is stunning from that camera rivaling FF in certain situations. However, it isn't as small as I would like it to be, but significantly more compact and lighter than lugging around a FF Canon. The price is right too. An added bonus, but not a requirement - is the long battery life. The size reduction isn't enough overall to be an easy choice, and it's also a Nikon so I have to hold my nose a bit. 

FUJI is another option, as they have a dual-SD slot camera with a great sensor - but the price is up there for body+ lens. That system is as expensive as FF.

The 80D has a much improved sensor, not on par with Nikon though - but good enough for me. It has superior lens selection at a better price when choosing to use something other than the travel super zoom, but lacks the data protection. Unfortunate, as it adds DPAF which makes it great as a video camera on travel.

Not interested in Sony's cameras as they don't meet the requirements.

That brings in this Canon M5. They are releasing a super zoom. It is small and light. Has the 80D's solid 24mp sensor, but price is unknown as well as what kind of file transfer capability. If it is reasonably priced and has the wireless function - I'm a buyer 100%. C1 & C2 functions is a HUGE win again, bringing that great Canon system goodness. Those are so extremely handy for those that take the time to learn and incorporate into workflow. Being compatible with Canon flash system is also huge. Although, the main use would be travel and the popup flash enough - again, being able to bring that into working space as a backup and having system compatibility is nice perk.


----------



## Crosswind (Sep 9, 2016)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Does anyone know how CIPA battery life is calculated for mirrorless?
> It is different from a DSLR where the OVF is using almost no power.



I'd like to know that too. With a DSLR, you usually have bigger batteries and you can shoot with the OVF which is a big advantage over mirrorless in terms of power efficiency. 

Btw.; which one draws more energy - EVF or 3" display?


----------



## Sator (Sep 9, 2016)

I think the video gravy train is finished, as this article nicely articulates:

http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/08/30/good-while-it-lasted-does-the-canon-5d-mkiv-mark-the-end-of-dslr-video/

I quote:



> The slow death of the 5D for video work began the day Canon announced the Cinema EOS C300. From that point onwards, Canon’s strategy was that if you wanted a video camera that used a Super 35mm sensor, had proper XLR audio inputs and SDI in/out then you shouldn’t be buying their 5D. Still, fans of the 5D mkII waited patiently until 2012 for the release of the 5D mkIII. Most users were disappointed by the specifications and were expecting the camera to be a vast improvement on the Mark II, but sadly it wasn’t. What some people forget is that Canon is a business, and businesses are designed to make money. It would have made no sense for Canon to offer features and functionality in the 5D mkIII that were the same as those found in the much more expensive C300 and C100 Cinema EOS cameras.



This gravy train may continue a little while longer from other firms like Sony, but they aren't going to give away high end video features on their stills camera for much longer than Canon either, simply because it makes absolutely no business sense to do so. You can complain all you like but the party is pretty much over on this one. The real wonder is that people are actually surprised by this!


----------



## d (Sep 9, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> A few things:
> 
> 1) Great spec list. On paper it looks great, so, for Canon, that probably means it will be pretty great. They tend to deliver on their spec lists.
> 
> 2) For those concerned about battery - the M3 VASTLY outperforms its rating in real world use. I usually get 600-700 shots on a charge. My hope is that the bigger grips makes room for a slightly higher capacity battery, as both the IS and the DPAF might suck a little extra juice.



Agree regarding battery life of the M3 - I recently returned from a trip and was easily getting 400 - 500+ shots using a combination of EVF and LCD, with a fair bit of chimping.



> 3) Canon desperately needs to update/replace the existing EF adapter. It worked better on the M/M2 than it does on the M3.



As I have only used the M3 with the EF adaptor, in what respect do you find it's performance inferior to that with the M/M2?



> Encouraged that this might build on the good things about the M3 while dealing with the many unfortunate quirks of that camera.



Likewise.

d.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> Soon we will have the 10 year anniversary of Canon cameras with 1080p video, which is celebrated through Canon by releasing 10 new 1080p models.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

Crosswind said:


> blackcoffee17 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know how CIPA battery life is calculated for mirrorless?
> ...



Sony's been rating CIPA from either EVF or LCD draw. (EVF's draw more power).

canon with the G5X gave both numbers as well.

CIPA is flash 50% of the shots, every 10 shots the camera is turned off and back on again. the kit lens is racked in and out every shot .. I can't remember the rest.

However the tests are the same for mirrorless or not.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 9, 2016)

K said:


> Without that, this camera is useless to me. I'm not going on an expensive trip and depend on a single SD card to protect my images. I can't just get up and re-travel to different places around the world and recapture the moments and the sights.



Respectfully disagree. All I shoot is a single SD on my 5D3 (burst/buffer/video is a low priority for me) and neither it nor any card I has ever let me down. If it's an expensive / once-in-a-lifetime trip, just bring an external HD, iPad, laptop, etc, and backup what you shoot each day when you get back to the hotel. 

Also, is a dual card slot setup a reasonable ask for a (totally guessing) $899-999 camera? In APS-C Mirrorless, Fuji had two slots but those X-Pro 2 and X-T2 rigs cost a great deal more. The Sony a6300 takes two formats but in a single slot if I recall.

- A


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Without that, this camera is useless to me. I'm not going on an expensive trip and depend on a single SD card to protect my images. I can't just get up and re-travel to different places around the world and recapture the moments and the sights.
> ...



to be honest .. people should be numbering their SD cards and rotating them.

just like SSD's .. there's wear leveling built into SD cards, however there is only a finite amount of times you can write to them (like SSD's) before they fail.

a good rotation strategy and more than 1 SD card in your inventory that you use can go a long way to preventing any issues.


----------



## skyshooter (Sep 9, 2016)

I shoot video and stills for skydiving, recreationally. When I bought a Sony AX-33, all the gear heads were drooling. Pretty much all the rest of my friends asked me why I added that much weight to the top of my head. So that's about 5 that were all about the 4k, and 15 that wondered why I wanted it. Those 15 are the consumers that aren't getting a 4k TV until their current FHD TV bites the dust. I still don't have a 4k TV or monitor, and only output in 1080, but I prefer the video - even from the same camera - that is shot at 4k over 1080 I love having 4k. 

I also have a GoPro that I do 1080p120 that turns out really nice slowmo, even if I have to add stabilization in post.

But my SL1? I use that only for stills. That's all I want from it. I'll probably upgrade to this for the extra FPS alone. Everything I choose is graded on performance/weight/cost. This looks to be the best for my needs. I'd already be on an M3 if it had a remote release for my bite switch, so I'm happy to see the last hurdle removed.


----------



## Lenscracker (Sep 9, 2016)

If they had made this in a full frame I may not have bought the Pentax K-1. I still have my 5D3, 5Dsr, and 7D2, but like the M5, the K-1 does what these other cameras won't. The lenses are a different story.


----------



## Snzkgb (Sep 9, 2016)

njene said:


> Snzkgb said:
> 
> 
> > Now this IS looking the thing I want as a backup for my 5d2 and everyday camera.
> ...


Exactly. I want a camera that I can bring with me everyday, and I can't do that with 5d2 + 16-35 L, 24-70L, 70-200L each of them being F/2.8.
If EOS M5 will cost ~1000$, than I'll definately buy it.


----------



## horshack (Sep 9, 2016)

Nikon implemented viewfinder touch AF on the D5500, the feature where you're able to set the AF point while looking through the viewfinder by touching the rear LCD. Here's a video demonstrating it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xssPVyu1wqY#t=30s


----------



## WillT (Sep 9, 2016)

K said:


> Who wants to do pro-level 4K videography on a small mirrorless camera anyway? Are these concerns even serious, or is this trolling? I don't get it.



It is not only what people want, they are expecting 4K. Look at all the other small mirrorless cameras released this year from Sony, Fujifilm, and Panasonic. Just look at the bestsellers at BH in mirrorless.


----------



## K (Sep 9, 2016)

Meatcurry said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > Woody said:
> ...




4K is overrated for the time being. 


Here's why - like you've said, most people don't have 4K TV's and here in the USA, I would guesstimate that 1/3 or more of new TV sales are still 1080. When I walk the stores, there are still many 1080 selections and they still have to mark the 4K TV's with a sign saying they are 4K.

Now, when will everyone get 4K? I think sooner than later. This isn't because of a need, but because the reliability of these electronics is pitiful these days. Very cheap and poor components goes into these, and people are having to replace 3-5 year cycle. That and at least in the US, there's that desire to have the latest and greatest even though it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter because there's almost no 4K content available yet. In fact, when it comes to cable packages - they aren't close to getting full 1080 content, heck, there's a lot of stuff that isn't even 720. 

So, let us assume for a moment that finally - all TV channels are 1080 finally once and for all. Are they really 1080? They are in RESOLUTION, but not in QUALITY. There's a lot of compression and processing going on - and none of the on-air or cable stuff is true 1080 high def quality as you would get with say a Bluray video or PC video mastered at top quality.

That said....

Watching a 1080 video at it's absolute best potential is pretty amazing, many years after this became the "standard" ...and I believe more than satisfies the vast majority of end users. 

Thus, people are really limited to professionally shot and produced content delivered to their TV via Blueray or PC to be able to take any advantage. A 4K GoPro does not count. These lower level video recording devices, including most DSLR and mirrorless are not capturing the quality necessary to take full advantage. They are recording to that resolution, but not to the quality level that resolution is capable of.


That explains my hostility toward all this 4K stuff in these forums. It's pointless to some extent. Unless you buy high end professional video gear, use the best lenses, use professional technique and support equipment - the end result will look like ass. Sorry for the crude expression, but 8K wouldn't help one bit if not shot to the capability of the format. 

Why are people paying top dollar for access to something that doesn't exist?

The TV's in the stores look amazing, because they are looping a promotional video shot in 4K with the best possible production. Then consumers take the TV home to watch highly compressed 1080 cable or netflix, and an occasional Bluray.

By the time enough real 4K comes around, the TV's will have dropped in price - or there will be much newer models with superior LED technology.


In short, to maximize 4K capability requires professional production. Whether people like to hear it or not - that's the facts. It's the same situation with high resolution DSLR. The 5DSR, to really take advantage of it for stills requires proper technique. Running and gunning with it diminishes its max potential quite a bit. Same with medium format. For video, the quality is so high now - that for the first time a threshold has been reached where higher production standards are necessary to take advantage. It's not like the VHS days where perfect technique could be overlooked because the format just couldn't capture the quality and detail.


This is why 4K isn't a big deal in DSLR or Mirrorless cameras. Canon, being a PRACTICAL company - knows this. But marketing hype and consumer craze and drive is not practical thinking. It just wants numbers.

Want great 4K? Canon offers it in the proper place - within their professional line ups, where you could actually make use of it to deliver.


----------



## MrToes (Sep 9, 2016)

Looks very promising! I might have to pick one of the M's finally! Just better be at least the 80d sensor or better! It would be bad if they don't start playing serious with the mirror less cameras at this point!


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

njene said:


> Snzkgb said:
> 
> 
> > Now this IS looking the thing I want as a backup for my 5d2 and everyday camera.
> ...



get a 11-22 EF-M and the 18-150 EF-M and basically you have a 18-250mm lightweight APS-C ILC that is around 1kg in total travel weight.


----------



## Etienne (Sep 9, 2016)

I like the look of it! 
It looks like a shrunk down 5D mk IV


----------



## H. Jones (Sep 9, 2016)

I'm honestly a bit impressed by all this. I'll have to check it out in the stores when it releases and if the price isn't too bad I might have to pick it up with the 15-45mm and 22mm. Daytime wouldn't be bad with the 15-45mm, especially if you follow "f/8 and be there," and the 22mm seems like an excellent option for getting images at night.

Not a bad size at all to have a 24-70mm and 35mm f/2 on me anywhere I go. With wi-fi and NFC, it would also be easy to transmit any photos of breaking news if I wind up somewhere without my 1dx2 and 5D3. I currently keep a 5D3 with my 24-70mm f/2.8 II and cellphone cables in a small bag in my backpack/on my shoulder wherever I go, so this would be a huge decrease in size compared to that, even with two lenses.

Part of me wants to hold out for a full-frame mirrorless camera, but I'm not sure yet since that would also mean size increases. I guess I'll wait and see if they've kept the powershot firmware or if the camera will be used more like a DSLR.


----------



## Roy2001 (Sep 9, 2016)

K said:


> 4K is overrated for the time being.
> 
> 
> Here's why - like you've said, most people don't have 4K TV's and here in the USA, I would guesstimate that 1/3 or more of new TV sales are still 1080. When I walk the stores, there are still many 1080 selections and they still have to mark the 4K TV's with a sign saying they are 4K.
> ...


Thank you for typing so many BS, when we are in a world that most decent smart phones in store can record 4K video. And I remember when we were looking for 1080p recording, people like you talk about miniDV format is good enough. I can't stop laughing.


----------



## crashpc (Sep 9, 2016)

No, he's not. Truly usable camera and PC rig is like $2000+ for weaker setups. How many people have this as ordinary consumer stuff for video making and consumption? We're talking fractions of %.


----------



## josephandrews222 (Sep 9, 2016)

NorbR said:


> Wow. There's nothing I don't like about that spec list, nor about those pictures. This looks like exactly the camera I wanted.
> 
> I see my poor EF-M 11-22mm, left without an M body for 6 months, jump up on my shelf with excitement. It was after all my 2nd most used lens overall (EF and EF-M combined) before I broke my M3 ...
> 
> In any case, I'm waiting to see the price, but anything south of a grand and I'm pre-ordering right away. Exciting



How did your M3 break?


----------



## Etienne (Sep 9, 2016)

H. Jones said:


> I'm honestly a bit impressed by all this. I'll have to check it out in the stores when it releases and if the price isn't too bad I might have to pick it up with the 15-45mm and 22mm. Daytime wouldn't be bad with the 15-45mm, especially if you follow "f/8 and be there," and the 22mm seems like an excellent option for getting images at night.
> 
> Not a bad size at all to have a 24-70mm and 35mm f/2 on me anywhere I go. With wi-fi and NFC, it would also be easy to transmit any photos of breaking news if I wind up somewhere without my 1dx2 and 5D3. I currently keep a 5D3 with my 24-70mm f/2.8 II and cellphone cables in a small bag in my backpack/on my shoulder wherever I go, so this would be a huge decrease in size compared to that, even with two lenses.
> 
> Part of me wants to hold out for a full-frame mirrorless camera, but I'm not sure yet since that would also mean size increases. I guess I'll wait and see if they've kept the powershot firmware or if the camera will be used more like a DSLR.



I use the M3 with 11-22 , and I carry the 22mm f/2 for low light.
I am biased toward wide angle, so this works great for me, although I'd love to see an EF-M 50mm f/1.8 IS with nano-USM!

The EOS-M5 is very likely to be my next buy.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

Roy2001 said:


> Thank you for typing so many BS, when we are in a world that most decent smart phones in store can record 4K video. And I remember when we were looking for 1080p recording, people like you talk about miniDV format is good enough. I can't stop laughing.



you DO realize the difference in size of sensors there .. right?


----------



## scyrene (Sep 9, 2016)

This has to be the most positive response to a new Canon camera I've seen in all my time here. Bodes well! It's of no interest to me personally, but I'm glad lots of people are finding it appealing.


----------



## scyrene (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > Errr....most people don't spend over £100 a month on sky, so for the majority it will be an expensive luxury. the vast majority of consumers aren't interested in 4K, this isn't like the rush to HD, which was more about moving from CRT TVs to flat screen.
> ...



Um, actually no they don't. This article is a year old, but the numbers won't have changed nearly enough to make your statement correct: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jul/29/sky-profits-rise-customers-germany-italy

12 million customers, so <20% of the UK population.


----------



## scyrene (Sep 9, 2016)

infared said:


> It looks like Canon finally stepped up the performance of their mirrorless camera...still needs prime lenses, etc...but that has to be the butt-ugliest camera I have seen in years. It looks like no design went into it at all...just function.
> Camera but commitee?



I'm always a bit confused by statements of camera ugliness. Aside from being subjective of course, most cameras look similar to me... can you give examples of cameras you think are visually attractive, please?


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 9, 2016)

WillT said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Who wants to do pro-level 4K videography on a small mirrorless camera anyway? Are these concerns even serious, or is this trolling? I don't get it.
> ...



It's more than just 4K. The 5D4 got 4K but then the backlash on crop, codecs, etc. _immediately_ followed. Until folks are making JJ Abrams quality wedding movies on product not expressly designed for that purpose, people throw tantrums and threaten to head elsewhere.

Above and beyond video, I see it as a somewhat toxic 'improvement entitlement of the consumer' that some tech-focused folks demonstrate. It's similar to those who say "Sure, I'll pick up the new SLR that just came out provided it's 2-3 stops better at high ISO levels than the last one" or offer the peach of "My GoPro can do that and my SLR can't!" These are unreasonable asks of products that simply do not evolve this quickly.

And for those that say that such tech breakthroughs are just sitting across the street with another companies' product, YMMV. Video is not my wheelhouse at all, but I seem to recall other mirrorless rigs offering 4K have crop factor limitations, limited recording times, heating problems and (in the case of the GH4) need enormous bodies relative to their sensor size to do the job. So, congrats to naysayers, the grass _appears_ greener elsewhere, but go and migrate to that platform and see if you find happiness. My guess is there will still be something missing.

I'm no Canon apologist, but not being bleeding edge on a few specs doesn't wind me up.

Except for only 7 fps in the 5D4 and no spot metering linked to an off-center AF point. ;D

- A


----------



## JMZawodny (Sep 9, 2016)

I too will be very interested to see how this performs and what the pricing will be. It revived my interest in the 28mm EF-M Macro, the tilt display will certainly help in this application. I have the original M and this seems to be the same basic size for the main body with a bit of extra height for the EVF and thickness for the grip. I have other cameras that do 4k video, so I'm not really concerned about lack of it on the M5. I'm glad I did not give in and buy an SL1 with this prices being so low now. Can't wait.


----------



## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Sep 9, 2016)

d said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > A few things:
> ...



More lenses work better on the M1/M2. More third party compatibility. More Canon lenses work normally. Pretty much everything.


----------



## transpo1 (Sep 9, 2016)

*--> Proud 4K Post --> Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



K said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > lw said:
> ...



The desire for 4K is a want, not a need at this point, for most consumers. As one of the 4K harpers and Canon loyalist, my point is that Canon deliberately holds these features back when it could obtain continued customer loyalty and increased sales from prosumers and professionals like us by providing these features unhindered. 

As a prosumer and professional video person, I need to ensure I'm future proofing for 4K because, as the above poster noted, everyone will have 4K TVs someday and I want my content to be state of the art and stand up to future viewing. It's a good feeling, knowing that when you use a product, and it makes you buy more of said product. Not every consumer or prosumer _needs_ 4K in a DSLR or mirrorless, just like no one _needs_ increased AF points or Dual Pixel autofocus. People have been taking great pictures without it for years. 

It's the continued hobbling of video aspects that irks Canon fans like myself. And hey, it's their prerogative. I just think they could gain increasing brand loyalty, sales, and value numbers from a whole host of people if they unleashed the floodgates on their DSLR / mirrorless video features.

Myself and many others have taken some #%& on this site for our stance, but I'm going to continue to fight for Canon to deliver value to hybrid shooters on the video front, because in the end, I love their products. If it means I have to _good-naturedly_ duel with people such as Neuro and yourself, so be it. Our postings come from the same place- a desire for Canon to succeed and to have the best products.


----------



## JMZawodny (Sep 9, 2016)

There are two other images in the series. The one I've added here is a grip-side view. Any ideas what function Canon assigns to the button with the RF-like symbol on it?


----------



## horshack (Sep 9, 2016)

JMZawodny said:


> There are two other images in the series. The one I've added here is a grip-side view. Any ideas what function Canon assigns to the button with the RF-like symbol on it?



Looks like a Wi-Fi toggle.


----------



## Alastair Norcross (Sep 9, 2016)

horshack said:


> JMZawodny said:
> 
> 
> > There are two other images in the series. The one I've added here is a grip-side view. Any ideas what function Canon assigns to the button with the RF-like symbol on it?
> ...


Yes, that's exactly the same symbol as the wi-fi button on my G7XII, and in the same place. It works very well on the G7XII. I presume it will too on the M5.


----------



## Roy2001 (Sep 9, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> you DO realize the difference in size of sensors there .. right?


You DO realize 4K IS the standard of video shooting right? When people shoot video, they not only want to view it now, but also want to save it for future right? When you want to play your precious family video some day, are you happy with VHS or miniDV, or you wish it is 4K or even 8K?

So I can live with the fact that 4K is hard to achieve on a larger sensor camera, but don't try to persuade people that 4K is not useful.


----------



## Roy2001 (Sep 9, 2016)

*Re: --> Proud 4K Post --> Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications*



transpo1 said:


> The desire for 4K is a want, not a need at this point, for most consumers. As one of the 4K harpers and Canon loyalist, my point is that Canon deliberately holds these features back when it could obtain continued customer loyalty and increased sales from prosumers and professionals like us by providing these features unhindered.


Canon simply cannot make Digic7 to take FF 4k video without overheating.


----------



## hubie (Sep 9, 2016)

Why no IS for stills? I mean, this is really a feature I am waiting for on Canon DSLRs. I guess they restrict it to not ,ake all IS lenses obsolete... but hey, it's no longer cutting edge technology but state of the art. Times change. Such a feature on the Canon 6D mk II would be a dream (yeye, let me dream )


----------



## Roy2001 (Sep 9, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> <li>Video: FullHD 60fps, 5-axis electronic image stabilization</li>


I am really disappointed that there is no IS in body.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Sep 9, 2016)

1kind said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if my L lenses will adapt. Never considered an M series before, but this looks very interesting. My 7D is the only crop body.(not counting the SL-1) Maybe I could retire the 7D with this little gem.
> ...



Excellent!
Am I correct in thinking that when the full frame lenses' light is condensed to the APS-C you gain a stop or two?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 9, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Am I correct in thinking that when the full frame lenses' light is condensed to the APS-C you gain a stop or two?



Not with the Canon adapter, which just adapts the mount (no optics in the adapter) – only the central portion of the image circle is used, just like mounting any EF lens on an APS-C dSLR.

You're talking about using a speedbooster (focal reducer) adapter, which has optics.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Sep 9, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > Am I correct in thinking that when the full frame lenses' light is condensed to the APS-C you gain a stop or two?
> ...



Thanks. I need to come up to speed on M series. I'm really liking this new one's specs. At 67, weight is becoming an issue.


----------



## LDS (Sep 9, 2016)

Roy2001 said:


> When you want to play your precious family video some day, are you happy with VHS or miniDV, or you wish it is 4K or even 8K?



Actually, when I play my 'precious' family videos I play 8mm and Super8 films....


----------



## scyrene (Sep 9, 2016)

hubie said:


> Why no IS for stills? I mean, this is really a feature I am waiting for on Canon DSLRs. I guess they restrict it to not ,ake all IS lenses obsolete... but hey, it's no longer cutting edge technology but state of the art. Times change. Such a feature on the Canon 6D mk II would be a dream (yeye, let me dream )



Canon does in-lens IS, not IBIS. That's just how it is, and I'd be amazed if it changed any time soon. It's not a matter of 'restricting'. Do they even have patents for it? Even if they do, they must think in-lens IS is better, either for their bottom line, or for their customers' needs, or both. You want IBIS, look elsewhere, sorry.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

Roy2001 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > you DO realize the difference in size of sensors there .. right?
> ...


there is no "standard" of video shooting.. lol.

in actuality most broadcast standards are still 1080p24/30


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 9, 2016)

hubie said:


> Why no IS for stills? I mean, this is really a feature I am waiting for on Canon DSLRs. I guess they restrict it to not ,ake all IS lenses obsolete... but hey, it's no longer cutting edge technology but state of the art. Times change. Such a feature on the Canon 6D mk II would be a dream (yeye, let me dream )



If you mean _body _IS (IBIS), don't hold your breath. Canon has hitched its future to lens IS for a host of reasons.

- A


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 9, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



Nikon's bluetooth connection actually makes a lot of sense here.
Rotating cards still doesn't save that "once in a lifetime" shot if the card it's on fails.
With a convenient wireless solution you can just tag any important pictures and have them backed up to your phone instantly (hopefully, if the software interface is bad then it's still useless).

I bought a few 64GB SD cards this summer. I will never fill one to capacity, but the larger capacity cards have better write speeds and wear better, so they'll probably last the rest of my life for my purposes.


----------



## Ebrahim Saadawi (Sep 9, 2016)

Some people seem to be confused about the ''electronic stabilization''. 

It's not for shooting stills. it's not IBIS. The sensor doesn't move. 

It's an algorithm moves the video image (not sensor) to corrent for shake. So to get a place to move the image in, you need to use a smaller portion of the sensor, hence crop. 

It's IS for video mode that crops the image a little. 

Note** Canon history for this feature implementation shows pretty much just as good as IBIS performance for video. It's pretty amazing what they achieve with just electronic IS. with Optical IS lens + Electronic (mode 3 on M3) it's ridiculous. It really is a fantastic IS for video. 

Note2** 1080p on the M3 is one of the best around. Better than A6000/6300, Fuji, Olympus, NX1, it's very detailed with very little aliasing/moire. I can see using this as a professional video rig. I always utilise shallow DOF for my audience. This love it. And the fight with that has always been stability (fast lenses have to IS, long lenses are jittery as hell) and Focusing. 

For the first, I use a shoulder rig. A large and heavy piece of equipment and always cursing why canon don't just f+--ing give me a fast lens with IS like a 50mm/135mm IS, so that I could just handhold the camera and shoot FREELY focusing on focusing and framing. 

With DPAF, it even takea focusing off the focus list. So I can just shoot with the camera using any lens and get stable in-focus video. What a life saver for weddings for example. 

The IS will allow me to use my absolutely amazing Russian M42 glass that has zeiss optics for video, so far I cannot use the 135mm f/3.5 aside from select tripod shots (a shame because it looks amazing) and helios 58, anf of course the non IS Canon 50mm 1.8 STM and 135mm f2 (my two go-to-lenses). It breads live into these lenses while I've been restricted to a shoulder rig for all of them. If the performance is as good as the powershot electronic IS or M3 , I'll be ditching my rig and shooting handheld from now on. Liberating. 

Sonys offered this for a little while (Is not Focusing) but I am a colour freak, and find that Canon's picture styles give unparalelled colour science compared to the anemic Sony colours so I never made the switch.

For films/docs dialed down Neutral gives Superb colours with very little tweaking to get an awesome image, and for weddings and people Portrait PS gives a skin tone rendition unlike anything else, just ALIVE. Try to get these from S-Log and your image will fall apart before reaching it simply because they are weak 8bit 4:2:0 h.264 images made for delivery. So getting internal good colour science is vital for video shooting. 

My 150$ Eos M takes better colours than the 3000$ A7s. side by side, no comparison. (although the later is sharper and has IS)


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 9, 2016)

9VIII said:


> I bought a few 64GB SD cards this summer. I will never fill one to capacity, but the larger capacity cards have better write speeds and wear better, so they'll probably last the rest of my life for my purposes.



I bought a 128 GB SD for my 5D3 and (over time) grew to regret a few realities of it:


More sunk cost into that card than a smaller one, so its equally frail outer shell cracking/failing has a pricier impact when it goes. On that note, when my casing slightly cracked I opted for a questionable 'tape surgery' fix rather than replacing that card. I am more likely to break that card outright than if I just pitched it (or 'retired it' to less demanding use than my SLR) and got another.


Applications that warehouse your shots (I still use ancient old iPhoto for a host of reasons I won't get into) will slow down considerably to audit a 128 GB card to look for and display thumbnails of what's new. I can't really use iPhoto for the first 15-30 seconds of opening it because it's drowning in read work.


One massive card gets you in the habit of thinking you don't need to pack another card on a day of shooting (non-pro; I defend my right to be an idiot like this ). If I was working with multiple 32 GB cards, I'd be better prepared if one died in the field, if one was left in the reader on the PC at home, etc.

One huge pro of a big card (provided you aren't a burst/wildlife/sports shooter): you never think twice about 'shooting rich' with RAW + JPG _all the time_. I generally 100% keep my JPGs but retain my best 3-5% shots in RAW for processing, print, etc. That way I never lose the chance to save a great shot, but I'm also not burdened to maniacally keep all RAW files or burn the time necessary to process them all. That's a win-win in my book for how I shoot.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 9, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Roy2001 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Yeah, better not tell those folks shooting movies on —gasp— film that '4K IS the standard'. It's ok, though...those using film are just little niche productions like _Star Wars: The Force Awakens_ and _Jurassic World_. :


----------



## scyrene (Sep 9, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a few 64GB SD cards this summer. I will never fill one to capacity, but the larger capacity cards have better write speeds and wear better, so they'll probably last the rest of my life for my purposes.
> ...



Fascinating to have an insight into other people's way of working. I'm pretty much the opposite - one big card in the camera, never removed (I upload via USB), and I shoot raw only, only processing a small percentage of shots into jpegs as and when I need to. So different!

PS although this may not suit you, to minimise the time it takes programs to access bigger cards, it helps to delete previously uploaded shots (I've found this with Lr anyhow), although that won't help if you've filled the card in a single session


----------



## Bob Howland (Sep 9, 2016)

There are a couple things I find annoying about the M5 pictures. First, nowhere is there a picture of the new 18-150 lens. which is the lens I would buy with the M5. Second, the only picture of the camera back obscures most of the buttons with the touchscreen.

The M5 is pretty much the camera that I have been asking Canon to make, even if it doesn't have 4K video, which I wouldn't use anyway.


----------



## Ebrahim Saadawi (Sep 9, 2016)

For video we all use 4-5 16gig cards instead of 1-2 128 gig ones. Reason, minimize risk of amount of lost footage. 

About using 1 large card and uploading via USB, USB 2 uploading is PAINFULLY slower than a fast card and reader, if you're shooting Raw or video it's just an immense amount of of difference in speed. If you have one of Canon's new USB 3 cameras like the 7DII, 5DIV, 80D, 1DXII, it's probably just as fast as a card + reader. So with these camera it might not be a bad idea to tape-in a 265 card and leave it forever.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 9, 2016)

9VIII said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



you mean like the EOS-M5's automatic backup to smartphone?

- クラウドサービスやPC、スマートフォンに画像の自動バックアップが可能

-Allows automatic backup images of cloud services, PC, Smartphone


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> For video we all use 4-5 16gig cards instead of 1-2 128 gig ones. Reason, minimize risk of amount of lost footage.
> 
> About using 1 large card and uploading via USB, USB 2 uploading is PAINFULLY slower than a fast card and reader, if you're shooting Raw or video it's just an immense amount of of difference in speed. If you have one of Canon's new USB 3 cameras like the 7DII, 5DIV, 80D, 1DXII, it's probably just as fast as a card + reader. So with these camera it might not be a bad idea to tape-in a 265 card and leave it forever.



And try uploading gbs of 4K over USB2....


----------



## scyrene (Sep 9, 2016)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> For video we all use 4-5 16gig cards instead of 1-2 128 gig ones. Reason, minimize risk of amount of lost footage.
> 
> About using 1 large card and uploading via USB, USB 2 uploading is PAINFULLY slower than a fast card and reader, if you're shooting Raw or video it's just an immense amount of of difference in speed. If you have one of Canon's new USB 3 cameras like the 7DII, 5DIV, 80D, 1DXII, it's probably just as fast as a card + reader. So with these camera it might not be a bad idea to tape-in a 265 card and leave it forever.



I don't doubt it; I upload essentially no video however, it's all stills. I use the 5Ds, not sure which USB type that is, but it's fast enough for my purposes. A card reader might help but it's just another thing to buy/keep. I'm not compelled to get one. Maybe if I started doing video work, or we leapfrog to even bigger filesizes.


----------



## hachu21 (Sep 9, 2016)

Roy2001 said:


> Thank you for typing so many BS, when we are in a world that most decent smart phones in store can record 4K video. And I remember when we were looking for 1080p recording, people like you talk about miniDV format is good enough. I can't stop laughing.


So you just didn't understood his point. You know that the latest iphone 4K is just mushy if you compare it with a good 1080P coming from the 80D?
Your argument is like saying "my 20mp pictures coming from my smartphone must be much better than this poor Nikon D4S wich is only 16MP!"
4K yes, but only if, in the end, you get the real thing. a 4K label is not enough.

Last point : I agree with other that the 4K won't do the same splash as Full HD at the time.
For the average end viewer, the perceived resolution/quality gain is NOT linear!
Coming from low res 720x576 DVD to Full HD bluray was (IMHO) the last VISUALY huge gap!
Now with a big scrren going from FHD bluray to 4K bluray is still impressive but only if you look at close distance.
the next jump to 8k will be even less useful (again, to the end viewer).

Once what you see on screen seems as defined as the real world, what's the point to go further?


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

hachu21 said:


> good 1080P coming from the 80D?



If the 108p coming from an 80D is your benchmark for good 1080P then it's little wonder you don't appreciate 4K

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/03/short-note-canon-80d-has-no-improvement-in-video-quality/

_" In what appears to be a running joke in Canon’s non-Cinema EOS series of cameras now, their latest stills camera (on paper so promising for video with the latest generation Dual Pixel AF and a completely new sensor) produces a dismal performance and is far behind even some 5 year old cameras from 2011.

The Canon 80D’s video performance is so bad I won’t even be reviewing it. The clips I shot with it aren’t even worth uploading.

Already the camera has gone back to the store and I don’t want anything more to do with it.

It’s pretty amazing that here we are in 2016, 5 years after the Panasonic GH2 gave us such crisp, detailed full HD and Canon still haven’t even caught up with that on their APS-C cameras. 5 years is a long time. "_


----------



## NorbR (Sep 9, 2016)

josephandrews222 said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > I see my poor EF-M 11-22mm, left without an M body for 6 months, jump up on my shelf with excitement. It was after all my 2nd most used lens overall (EF and EF-M combined) before I broke my M3
> ...


By me slipping on some ice and falling on my butt, with the camera in my hand. 
(Hey, I did say *I* broke it.)

The camera still worked fine actually, but the screen was chipped. At first it was also still fine except for a small area, but it got progressively worse, to the point where half the screen became unreadable. For a camera without a viewfinder, that's a problem ...


----------



## ggweci (Sep 9, 2016)

Bob Howland said:


> There are a couple things I find annoying about the M5 pictures. First, nowhere is there a picture of the new 18-150 lens. which is the lens I would buy with the M5. Second, the only picture of the camera back obscures most of the buttons with the touchscreen.
> 
> The M5 is pretty much the camera that I have been asking Canon to make, even if it doesn't have 4K video, which I wouldn't use anyway.



This could have been written by me, as it's what I'm feeling. Would like to see the new lens and a clean pic of the back controls. But the "sketch" gives us a good idea of the latter.

Also feel that this is the exact camera I have been waiting for Canon to make. To this point, no body has been able to pull me to the "M" even though I'm tempted by the 22mm and 11-22mm lenses. This will likely push me over the edge - as long as the AF is "there".


----------



## hachu21 (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> hachu21 said:
> 
> 
> > good 1080P coming from the 80D?
> ...


That a bit fun because I chose the 80D because of this very reviewer!
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20594-canon-80d-first-impressions-and-3x-crop-mode/

It seems that he has changed his mind recently! ;D

Edit : back to the real subject, what could be the function of the button that take the previous place of the mount release?
That's a lot of customizable buttons and rings (x3)! I like it!


----------



## Rocky (Sep 9, 2016)

A few poster mention about taking video ( 4K, 1080P etc) for vacation and family etc. How many of you have watch them more than 3 times after the trip or family gathering??


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 9, 2016)

lw said:


> hachu21 said:
> 
> 
> > good 1080P coming from the 80D?
> ...



That blog post was always just knee-jerk hyperbole and clickbaiting.

[quote author=Andrew Reid]
In what appears to be a running joke in Canon’s non-Cinema EOS series of cameras now, their latest stills camera (on paper so promising for video with the latest generation Dual Pixel AF and a completely new sensor) produces a dismal performance and is far behind even some 5 year old cameras from 2011.

The Canon 80D’s video performance is so bad I won’t even be reviewing it. The clips I shot with it aren’t even worth uploading.[/quote]

[quote author=the very same Andrew Reid]
Now to image quality. The 1080p of course could be better, this is Canon after all. But the skintones, colour science, codec, rolling shutter performance and low light are all very nice indeed - much better than most of the 4K cameras out there in fact and much better than Sony. The image upscales well to 4K on my LG DCI 4096 x 2160 display.

In fact overall detail appears much higher than any Canon DSLR before it, way better than the 60D and 70D. It looks like the GH2 on many shots especially those at closer focus distances. Check out the 1080p frame grab below. It is much better than when I first tried the camera, maybe Canon did a tweak.

The 60p seems as highly detailed as the 24p. Just a shame about the aliasing and the moire can still rear up and bite you, but overall the image is very satisfying when the conditions are right to use it. And if it means getting the shot vs not, then this justifies the 80D's existence. 
*
Now a surprise*

The 3x crop mode with 1:1 sensor output (full pixel output of a cropped region) delivers absolutely superb image quality with no moire or aliasing. 
[/quote]

:

(To be clear, I highly approve of people who can publicly admit to having had a change of heart. But had the initial reaction not been so knee-jerk, maybe that wouldn't have been necessary in the first place.)


----------



## Frage (Sep 9, 2016)

Where is the China focal reducer for EF>EF-M?


----------



## ritholtz (Sep 9, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > hachu21 said:
> ...



[quote author=the very same Andrew Reid]
Now to image quality. The 1080p of course could be better, this is Canon after all. But the skintones, colour science, codec, rolling shutter performance and low light are all very nice indeed - much better than most of the 4K cameras out there in fact and much better than Sony. The image upscales well to 4K on my LG DCI 4096 x 2160 display.

In fact overall detail appears much higher than any Canon DSLR before it, way better than the 60D and 70D. It looks like the GH2 on many shots especially those at closer focus distances. Check out the 1080p frame grab below. It is much better than when I first tried the camera, maybe Canon did a tweak.

The 60p seems as highly detailed as the 24p. Just a shame about the aliasing and the moire can still rear up and bite you, but overall the image is very satisfying when the conditions are right to use it. And if it means getting the shot vs not, then this justifies the 80D's existence. 
*
Now a surprise*

The 3x crop mode with 1:1 sensor output (full pixel output of a cropped region) delivers absolutely superb image quality with no moire or aliasing. 
[/quote]

:

(To be clear, I highly approve of people who can publicly admit to having had a change of heart. But had the initial reaction not been so knee-jerk, maybe that wouldn't have been necessary in the first place.)
[/quote]
It happened with xc10 also. Then he compared with Sony one and changed his mind completely. He claims, he purchases all his gear and doesn't accept free loaners which is not bad.

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/06/canon-xc10-versus-sony-rx10-iii-the-canon-is-underrated/


----------



## lw (Sep 9, 2016)

Well I agree with eoshd's original reaction. My 70D and the 80D I tried are disappointingly soft at 1080p. My RX10 III, which eoshd's thought second best to the XC10, is so much better for 1080P video.
But the RX10 III AF is poor for action shots. great IQ though.


----------



## mustafa (Sep 9, 2016)

Do we know yet if the screen hinges high enough to face forward, for video blogging?


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 10, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a few 64GB SD cards this summer. I will never fill one to capacity, but the larger capacity cards have better write speeds and wear better, so they'll probably last the rest of my life for my purposes.
> ...



I've considered using memory cards as actual long term storage, but so far I still clear my cards after moving everything to the PC.
The likelihood of taking 64GB worth of pictures in one day is pretty slim until they come out with a 50MP DPRAW crop body.


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Yes, though Nikon seems to have communicated the functionality a little more clearly. Using a low power, always-on Bluetooth connection, as opposed to something where you might have to cycle wi-fi on and off every time you want to backup a picture. That adds a lot of steps to something that should be seamless.
Canon might have the same sort of idea, but Nikon seems to be specifically advertising something more along the lines of what I was thinking of.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 10, 2016)

9VIII said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > - クラウドサービスやPC、スマートフォンに画像の自動バックアップが可能
> ...



it's a one liner in a rumor .. just what would you expect it to say??


----------



## Woody (Sep 10, 2016)

lw said:


> If the 108p coming from an 80D is your benchmark for good 1080P then it's little wonder you don't appreciate 4K
> 
> http://www.eoshd.com/2016/03/short-note-canon-80d-has-no-improvement-in-video-quality/



You seem to enjoy bashing anything by Canon... but others will point out how unreliable your sources of info are. :


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 10, 2016)

looks as ugly to me as G5X. Don't need a EV +/- wheel on top. Would have greatly preferred Pop-up EVF in left top corner. Center hump makes it very bulky for my outdoor/mountaineering use. 

Well, let's see, how good it is and how much it costs.


----------



## Thumpa33 (Sep 10, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> I havent really used my original M much. The AF was too frustrating even after the firmware update. I have the EF lens adapter so tossing the 50 and 85 on there is a snap and a darn good lens for cheap with this camera. I do wish we'd get more M prime glass



I hated the original M so much, I repacked it in the Amazon box less than 2 hrs after getting it, usless camera unless you shoot landscapes or other static objects... IMHO


----------



## Thumpa33 (Sep 10, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> I havent really used my original M much. The AF was too frustrating even after the firmware update. I have the EF lens adapter so tossing the 50 and 85 on there is a snap and a darn good lens for cheap with this camera. I do wish we'd get more M prime glass




I hated the original M so much, I repacked it in the Amazon box less than 2 hrs after getting it, usless camera unless you shoot landscapes or other static objects... IMHO


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 10, 2016)

Thumpa33 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > I havent really used my original M much. The AF was too frustrating even after the firmware update. I have the EF lens adapter so tossing the 50 and 85 on there is a snap and a darn good lens for cheap with this camera. I do wish we'd get more M prime glass
> ...



And there in lies the issue most people had with the M, they never gave it a chance and never took time to optimize the settings. Out of the box the M sucked, I love mine and don't have any issues with the AF but then I took a bit of time to optimize it. And didn't listen to the online reviews that also didn't take the time to optimize it.


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



I wasn't aware it wasn't an existing feature yet.
That being the case Nikon would definitely be ahead of the curve on that particular point.


----------



## lw (Sep 10, 2016)

Woody said:


> You seem to enjoy bashing anything by Canon...



Not at all. There's no enjoyment in it.
As a almost life long Canon user since the first EOS 650 film DSLR, I am disappointed that their offerings don't always meet my expectation. Particularly on the video front.

Perhaps you should read http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30754.msg622233#msg622233 or perhaps you could view my EOS M Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/lozwilkes/albums/72157634770186305 or other Canon specific albums first before making such comments. 

Have you seen me on here bashing Canon's FF cameras, or lenses, or flash system - which I think are all great?
No, I have specifically bashed the M series because it failed to progress in line with the competition. And I have bashed the 80D because I thought it was such a disappointing improvement over my 70D. I was expecting more. 

So, in the meantime, I will continue to "bash" Canon wherever I see fit if I think they are underperforming. What a poor world it would be if the only thing allowed in forums was fanboyism, as unfortunately exhibited by some here...


----------



## gpp (Sep 10, 2016)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> Some people seem to be confused about the ''electronic stabilization''.
> 
> It's not for shooting stills. it's not IBIS. The sensor doesn't move.
> 
> ...



You never owned 135mm f/2, EOS M... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30531.msg619510#msg619510
Ebrahim (http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20260-how-i-got-scammed-through-one-of-this-sites-highest-rated-accounts/?do=findComment&comment=154344), please stop lying.


----------



## gordonbb (Sep 10, 2016)

Thank-you Canon.

This ticks all but one of my boxes and makes me glad I held on to the M I bought on the fire sale and the adapters and native m lenses and resisted the M2 and 3

I'm getting older and having a couple of bodies slung or attached to a harness for a few hours is getting painfull but then so was trying to use the m for event work even in bright light.

I want something smaller but I didn't want to lose my investment in L glass and spend the $10 to $15K moving to Fugi would entail. Most of my shooting now is just for myself and the family.

I shoot about 10 minutes of video a year and 1080p is just fine by me.

As an ex broadcast engineer who sat in some of the original 422 SMTPE sessions I will say that 1080p even on Netflix with their aggressive compression looks pretty damned good to these old tired eyes on my 55" display heck I have content on my media server from 20 odd years ago shot on VHS and yes it would be better in 1080p but something about the best camera being the one in hand comes to mind. In our family most of the video is shot on the wife's iPhone and edited on her iPad Air and not on my Xeon workstation.

The one feature I want that seems to be missing is GPS. What I still shoot are monuments at cemeteries and the 6D with a 17-40L is the cats meow for this. But spend a day roasting in the sun crouching (perspective warp will only fix so much) shooting 1000+ memorials and these old bones hurt. Yes, I know you can use an external GPS and import into LR but that's just adding pain to the workflow.

WRT reliability of SD cards ... I learned the hard way that good CF cards were a sound investment and always have a collection of Lexar or SanDisk Pro cards on hand that I rotate through. I've carried this practice forward with newer bodies with SD cards and I've recently had my first card failure. It was at the end of the day, the last card available and the light was going. The dam card wouldn't work and it was Sunday and I was at a rural location an hour and 1/2 from the nearest city. As luck would have it I remembered the local town had a big box drugstore that usually stocks mid range cards.

So thank-you Canon. Waiting to pre order. I think some of the Serenar lenses I inherited from my dad will look nice on this body.


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 10, 2016)

gpp said:


> Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> 
> 
> > Some people seem to be confused about the ''electronic stabilization''.
> ...



That's pretty disgusting behavior for a human being, thanks for the heads up.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 10, 2016)

gordonbb said:


> Thank-you Canon.
> 
> This ticks all but one of my boxes and makes me glad I held on to the M I bought on the fire sale and the adapters and native m lenses and resisted the M2 and 3
> 
> ...



what you may want to do is get a EF-M to FD,etc shift lens .. and get some cheap FD primes.

that would help with the perspective shifting and may let you stand for most of that with same a 35 or 50mm prime on a shift lens.


----------



## LesC (Sep 10, 2016)

gordonbb said:


> The one feature I want that seems to be missing is GPS. What I still shoot are monuments at cemeteries and the 6D with a 17-40L is the cats meow for this. But spend a day roasting in the sun crouching (perspective warp will only fix so much) shooting 1000+ memorials and these old bones hurt. Yes, I know you can use an external GPS and import into LR but that's just adding pain to the workflow.



Hopefully the GP-E2 GPS unit will be compatible if GPS isn't included - not ideal but it's not too large.


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 10, 2016)

LesC said:


> gordonbb said:
> 
> 
> > The one feature I want that seems to be missing is GPS. What I still shoot are monuments at cemeteries and the 6D with a 17-40L is the cats meow for this. But spend a day roasting in the sun crouching (perspective warp will only fix so much) shooting 1000+ memorials and these old bones hurt. Yes, I know you can use an external GPS and import into LR but that's just adding pain to the workflow.
> ...



Or use your smartphone as the gps, since it has an always on Bluetooth connection.


----------



## asl (Sep 10, 2016)

lw said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > You seem to enjoy bashing anything by Canon...
> ...



+1.


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 10, 2016)

hmm, comparing size/weight from rumored specs. As feared, it really is as bulky as an SL-1 and much higher than Sony A6300 due to that whale hump on top ... 

Canon EOS M5 .............. 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6 mm, 427g, crop 1.6x 
Canon EOS 100D/SL-1 ... 117 x 91 x 69 mm, 407g, crop 1.6x 
Canon EOS M3 .............. 111 x 68 x 44 mm, 366g, crop 1.6x
Canon EOS M ................ 109 x 67 x 32 mm, 298g, crop 1.6x 
Sony A6300 .................. 120 x 66.9 x 48.8 mm, 361g, crop 1.5x 
Sony A7R II .................. 126.9 x 95.7 x 60.3 mm, 582g, FULL FRAME

While not really big, I still find it rather big for a crop sensor cam. Sony manages to fit a FF sensor into this body size. For my use - travel, always on, mpounatainmeering cam ... I was hoping for a more compact package, ideally with pop-up EVF (like e.g. Sony RX1R II).

Now let's see if Canon finally put a regular LP-E6N into the larger grip for decent juice, or whether it will again be just another model-specific, not-backwards compatible, puny, weak, dwarf, toy battery ... NB-xxL.


----------



## Etienne (Sep 10, 2016)

9VIII said:


> gpp said:
> 
> 
> > Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> ...



+1000 .... Thanks for the heads up. 

His scam on EOSHD was unconscionable, and his follow up responses demonstrate clearly that this guy is a sociopath (no joke, read the EOSHD exchange). We should spread awareness of this sociopath on every camera, video and photography forum.


----------



## Stu_bert (Sep 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Roy2001 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



I think his point is fair in terms of shooting vs broadcast. Many commercial organisations have been recording in 4K and building up content. 

In the UK for instance, BBC has been building up a large mass of 4K content, admittedly in nature etc

http://advanced-television.com/2016/06/27/bbc-readies-for-uhdhdr-transmissions/


----------



## Stu_bert (Sep 10, 2016)

scyrene said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > Meatcurry said:
> ...



Except you miss the crucial element that in terms of households that number is a lot higher therefore. Sky will only hold details of the primary subscriber, not the size of the household. Your children & wife have sky, but probably you pay for it ;D

If you take the average household as being 2.2 children + 2 adults then the actual % population which has access to Sky is significant. More than 50% and therefore a majority? I wouldnt guess, but I wouldnt be surprised if it were close to half...


----------



## lw (Sep 10, 2016)

Stu_bert said:


> Except you miss the crucial element that in terms of households that number is a lot higher therefore. Sky will only hold details of the primary subscriber, not the size of the household. Your children & wife have sky, but probably you pay for it ;D
> 
> If you take the average household as being 2.2 children + 2 adults then the actual % population which has access to Sky is significant. More than 50% and therefore a majority? I wouldnt guess, but I wouldnt be surprised if it were close to half...



Yes. It's 12.5m households (as at June 2016) not 12m people. And that doesn't include another 4m households who are subscribers to Sky via Virgin and BT who have their own 4K services.

There are 26m households in the UK. So less then half are direct customers of Sky, but more than half have access to Sky channels. In total 18m households have pay TV from Sky, BT and Virgin. I don't know whether Sky make their 4K broadcasts available via BT or Virgin though. Once you factor in things like Netflix (another 4K provider) , over 70% of UK households now have Pay TV in one form or another. So it is the norm now, not a luxury.

Anyway, we digress. So I will say no more on this topic.


----------



## ggweci (Sep 10, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> hmm, comparing size/weight from rumored specs. As feared, it really is as bulky as an SL-1 and much higher than Sony A6300 due to that whale hump on top ...
> 
> Canon EOS M5 .............. 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6 mm, 427g, crop 1.6x
> Canon EOS 100D/SL-1 ... 117 x 91 x 69 mm, 407g, crop 1.6x
> ...



I expect that the M5 will "feel" much smaller that the SL1 even though the measurements seem similar. I thickness of the M5 includes the substantial grip and protruding EVF, whereas the SL1 is mainly due to the requirement of the mirror box. The actually volume of the SL1 would be a fair bit greater.

I think the M5 body is slightly thicker than the M3, based on what I can decipher from the size of hot hotshot, but overall pretty close. Also, the added depth of the grip (which looks to help ergonomics tremendously vs the original Ms), will not be a concern once you at a lens, even the pancake.

As the Sony's current A7 models, yes they are very compact given the sensor, but once you throw a lens on there, they get big fast (unless you stick to their 35mm f2.8 pancake). 

I know this is not apples to apples, as the Sony is FF f4 constant, but check out this comparison with the UW zooms - Canon M vs SL1 vs A7Rii

http://camerasize.com/compact/#599.386,448.424,624.440,ha,t

The M definitely offers size advantages vs even the Canon crops.

If you can stick with just the pancakes for your travel camera, the the A7's are mighty tempting. 

http://camerasize.com/compact/#599.349,448.439,624.394,ha,t


----------



## Etienne (Sep 10, 2016)

ggweci said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > hmm, comparing size/weight from rumored specs. As feared, it really is as bulky as an SL-1 and much higher than Sony A6300 due to that whale hump on top ...
> ...



Agreed. The size and weight look great to me. Too small quickly becomes impossible-to-use except in full automatic.


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 10, 2016)

I made gif's in the thread that beat this one to the punch.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30753.msg622025#msg622025


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 10, 2016)

ggweci said:


> I expect that the M5 will "feel" much smaller that the SL1 even though the measurements seem similar. I thickness of the M5 includes the substantial grip and protruding EVF, whereas the SL1 is mainly due to the requirement of the mirror box. The actually volume of the SL1 would be a fair bit greater.
> 
> I think the M5 body is slightly thicker than the M3, based on what I can decipher from the size of hot hotshot, but overall pretty close. Also, the added depth of the grip (which looks to help ergonomics tremendously vs the original Ms), will not be a concern once you at a lens, even the pancake.



I don't take issue so much with the grip - IF (!) Canon made it bigger to accomodate a real battery [LP-E6N, 11+ Whrs] instead of a yet another whimpy toy battery. I am more bothered with the hump on top. 

My "dream form factor" definitely is the Sony RX1R II ... would have relly loved to get a Canon M5 in that type of form factor with corner pop-up EVF, even with a crop sensor inside, not FF ... I am fully aware of FF lens size, weight and cost. Unfortunately that Sony costs an arm and a leg and more importantly, it's lens is bolted on. If Sony would make the RX1R II with an FE mount up front, I would likely get it. 

My EOS M with 18-55 or 22/2 comes with me in a small LoePro Dashpoint 30 bag mounted on the left side strap of my backpack, so I have immediate access to it all the time, even when climbing. If deired, I put another, smaller LowePro Dashpoint 20 on the other side backpack strap - it holds 55-200 perfectly. Or 11-22, so I got fully access to camera and 2 or 3 lenses. Also on city trips / vacations etc. 

With M5 this will not be possible - too bulky and on the heavy side too. Which means, it will go into the backpack, I will carry it along all the time, but hardly take any pictures ... might as well take my 5D3 + 24-70 II along ... which I don't .. too bulky and too heavy. See the dilemma? All I want is a very compact M with built-in EVF and good performance, including AF and fully competitive IQ.


----------



## Crosswind (Sep 10, 2016)

I cannot open the EOS 80D RAW files with LR5, so I guess the same would apply for EOS M5 RAW files. Do I have to pay for LR6?


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 10, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> ggweci said:
> 
> 
> > I expect that the M5 will "feel" much smaller that the SL1 even though the measurements seem similar. I thickness of the M5 includes the substantial grip and protruding EVF, whereas the SL1 is mainly due to the requirement of the mirror box. The actually volume of the SL1 would be a fair bit greater.
> ...



I can agree that I wish this was a rangefinder style, but sales figures across the ILC market disagree with my preference.
We're just going to have to hope that Canon tries making a Rangefinder equivalent.


----------



## Haydn1971 (Sep 10, 2016)

9VIII said:


> I can agree that I wish this was a rangefinder style, but sales figures across the ILC market disagree with my preference.
> We're just going to have to hope that Canon tries making a Rangefinder equivalent.



To be fair, the M and M10 are this... We just need more pancake primes ! #stuckrecord


----------



## Steve_FR (Sep 10, 2016)

Crosswind said:


> I cannot open the EOS 80D RAW files with LR5, so I guess the same would apply for EOS M5 RAW files. Do I have to pay for LR6?



You could download Adobe DNG Converter, and convert your raw files to .DNG. It is an extra step, but helps you get your files open, and it's free.


----------



## ggweci (Sep 10, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> My "dream form factor" definitely is the Sony RX1R II ... would have relly loved to get a Canon M5 in that type of form factor with corner pop-up EVF, even with a crop sensor inside, not FF ... I am fully aware of FF lens size, weight and cost. Unfortunately that Sony costs an arm and a leg and more importantly, it's lens is bolted on. If Sony would make the RX1R II with an FE mount up front, I would likely get it.



I definitely agree that the RX1R II form factor is ideal. That pop-up EVF design is excellent, allowing for the very compact design. Would love one, but like you, price is a way out of my range.

If the made an FE mount version, I don't think you'd be happy with that, however. The lenses would be too large for the compact body. The 35mm on the RX1s is recessed deep into the body, keeping the overall pkg small.

I've read some rumours of an "RX200" which could be an APS-C version of the RX1. If they could throw in a 24-50mm equiv short soom, with large aperture, while keeping it in the same size housing as the RX1R II, that would be a perfect walk around camera - usable range, great IQ, compact, EVF. Drool.


----------



## svenski (Sep 10, 2016)

*any idea on the EVF resolution*

I might have missed this but has anyone got an idea what resolution and refresh rate the EVF has?


----------



## asl (Sep 10, 2016)

Etienne said:


> ggweci said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



yes, form factor/size and ergonomics/buttons is the aspect were you really can´t get it all. I think it looks great, but it is not small. But I see it more as it in some sense sum up the all canon crop line (dsls) in to one small camera and replace/rule them all


----------



## Crosswind (Sep 10, 2016)

Steve_FR said:


> Crosswind said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot open the EOS 80D RAW files with LR5, so I guess the same would apply for EOS M5 RAW files. Do I have to pay for LR6?
> ...



Thanks for your advice sir! I thought that I open the RAW files in Canon DPP first, make some minor adjustments (like +/- shadows and lights), then save as .TIFF and import into LR5 to further tweak them to my likings.

Btw. is there any quality difference between .cr2 and .dng files? Is it better to work with TIF or DNG files?

_Edit: After some research, I found that .cr2 and .dng files both have "sidecar files", so I can always change them non-destructively. That would not be possible with .tif or .jpg because I loose that information._

_(I know it all sounds a bit offtopic, but since there will be a lot of people (I guess) buying the new EOS M5, some of them might also encounter this kind of problem, so I thought it is worth asking over here.)_


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 10, 2016)

maybe i missed it in all the threads and postings: is anything known regarding M5 firmware/UI/layout ... powershot (like M3, M10) or "real EOS" (M, M2)?


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 10, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> maybe i missed it in all the threads and postings: is anything known regarding M5 firmware/UI/layout ... powershot (like M3, M10) or "real EOS" (M, M2)?



the model # is a powershot not a digital stills camera.


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > maybe i missed it in all the threads and postings: is anything known regarding M5 firmware/UI/layout ... powershot (like M3, M10) or "real EOS" (M, M2)?
> ...



thanks for the info! and SIGH for the content! ;-)

so in essence we are looking at a G5X "on steroids" with 80D DPAF sensor and EF-M lens mount. all the way consumer ... from ugly outer humpback-whale appearance to inner workings/firmware ...


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 10, 2016)

Haydn1971 said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > I can agree that I wish this was a rangefinder style, but sales figures across the ILC market disagree with my preference.
> ...



Ironically, if the M5 doesn't have DPRAW and the M10 drops in price a bunch I might go for the M10.

The only problem is it doesn't have an EVF, and rear LCD's generally aren't great in daylight.
7fps does sound great and I reeeally want those dials, but if the M5 is 3x more money, that's still a big deal (in Canada the M10 can almost be had for $500 and if the M5 is $1,000 USD that's going to be a lot more in CAD).
Technically just adding wi-fi (or touchscreen controls) would solve most of the issues I have with a regular old Rebel (usually shooting Macro from a Tripod), but M5 looks like the complete package (and might do BIF, which ironically my 1100D is quite competent at).
Hopefully the M5 comes in under $1,000 (which it should if they're competing with the A6300).


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 10, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Ironically, if the M5 doesn't have DPRAW and the M10 drops in price a bunch I might go for the M10.
> The only problem is it doesn't have an EVF, so it's probably hard to use the rear LCD in daylight.
> 7fps does sound great though. Hopefully the M5 it comes in under $1,000 (which it should if they're competing with the A6300).



Don't think so, Canon MSRP was very high recently. My guess is 
M5 kit with 15-45 kit USD 1.499 / USD 1699 
Body only might be USD 1299 / € 1499 ... and in very short supply for a number of months


----------



## Snzkgb (Sep 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> njene said:
> 
> 
> > Snzkgb said:
> ...


Isn't 18-150 not announced yet?


----------



## rs (Sep 10, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Ironically, if the M5 doesn't have DPRAW and the M10 drops in price a bunch I might go for the M10.



Do you mean DPAF?


----------



## rrcphoto (Sep 11, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Ironically, if the M5 doesn't have DPRAW and the M10 drops in price a bunch I might go for the M10.
> ...



a first even for you .. calling canon stupid for your own imaginary MSRP...


----------



## njene (Sep 11, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...



Can ya smell the birn?


----------



## pokerz (Sep 11, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> hmm, comparing size/weight from rumored specs. As feared, it really is as bulky as an SL-1 and much higher than Sony A6300 due to that whale hump on top ...
> 
> Canon EOS M5 .............. 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6 mm, 427g, crop 1.6x
> Canon EOS 100D/SL-1 ... 117 x 91 x 69 mm, 407g, crop 1.6x
> ...


Without Mirrorbox, weather sealing, how come m5 is so heavy and bulky ?


----------



## crashpc (Sep 11, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...



No way it would sit right next to 6D price wise....


----------



## Rocky (Sep 11, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > maybe i missed it in all the threads and postings: is anything known regarding M5 firmware/UI/layout ... powershot (like M3, M10) or "real EOS" (M, M2)?
> ...


The model # is EOS M5, Where is the Powershot coming from???


----------



## lw (Sep 11, 2016)

Rocky said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



The model number - PC2258.
It may have an EOS "brand", but under the skin, its a PowerShot.
Think of EOS M5 as the product _name_, whilst PC2258 is the_ model number_.

The M3 and M10 were produced by the PowerShot 'division' and responsibility given to them. Hence the change in OS/UI from the EOS-based M/M2 to the PowerShot OS/UI.
And the model numbers became PowerShot ones, not EOS.

The M5 has a PowerShot model number, not an EOS one.
All PowerShots are PCnnnn, whilst all EOS are DSnnnnnn.

See this list of Product Names alongside Model Numbers
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://nokiS___a-camera.blogspot.be/p/blog-page_3.html&usg=ALkJrhhKX1Q5YQYIDq9TtzOD__2lsg-wRA#canon 

(substitute the missing 'hit' that the swear filter removed from nokis...a)


----------



## crashpc (Sep 11, 2016)

lw: arrrrggh not happy to see that one. Hope the powershot gets serious upgrade in its SW.


----------



## justmy2cents (Sep 11, 2016)

crashpc said:


> lw: arrrrggh not happy to see that one. Hope the powershot gets serious upgrade in its SW.



I hope so to. It's time to overhaul the UI to make better use of the touchscreen and get rid of all those dials and buttons the DSLRs have.


----------



## rs (Sep 11, 2016)

justmy2cents said:


> crashpc said:
> 
> 
> > lw: arrrrggh not happy to see that one. Hope the powershot gets serious upgrade in its SW.
> ...



It depends upon who the camera is aimed at.

Aim it at the enthusiast market, you'll find people want real dials and buttons that they can use intuitively, allowing them to change most major settings even with the camera up to their eye.

Aim it at typical smartphone users, and the touchscreen alone is almost all that's wanted. Canon have already done that with the M and M2, and the M10 is now catering for that market (albeit with Powershot firmware).


----------



## ashmadux (Sep 11, 2016)

thetechhimself said:


> HaroldC3 said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



There is *not a single way this is better than a tilty screen*, but ill have whatever you are smoking buddy : ??? 8)

Seriously...not even close


----------



## ashmadux (Sep 11, 2016)

lw said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > liveview DPAF in 80D= cipa 300
> ...



None of the M batteries are that good at all. I have 3 opteka's for me M1 that runs circles around the pathetic canon battery.

I bet you they keep the charges small so that you can buy 2-3 of them, betting them 100 + profit. 200 shots...thats a POS.


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## tcmatthews (Sep 11, 2016)

As a former EOS M and Sony Nex6 owner I am trying to find some reason to like this camera. First it looks like they have finally added everything I wanted in the original EOS M. I wish is was smaller and more of a Sony Nex6 rangefinder styled body with EVF. I do not think I would get it over a Sony A6300. If it was released when the EOS M was I would have been very excited not now. 

I just do not see anything to be excited about. I think it will be a good camera but I have moved on. I have been finding it hard to get excited by APSC at all. My Sony A7II is great. When I want small I just use my OMD EM1.

I might pick one up in fire sale. But I do not know if that will happen this time.


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## Josh Denver (Sep 11, 2016)

ashmadux said:


> thetechhimself said:
> 
> 
> > HaroldC3 said:
> ...



Nothing's ever just ''better''! 

Designers choose the ''only-tilt'' screen design instead of the side hinge swivle screen for a reason. 

*1- Size*

Flip out the swivle screen and look at how big of a monster camera you're holding in terms of physical space.

A7 designers commented that the tilt design on the A7 series was to decrease the size of the camera usability. 

*2 -Robustness. *

The side hinge is FAR weaker than the two or large connector arm of the Tilt screen. 

These are the benefits of the the Tilt only. 

*Benefits of swivle is *

3 -Seeing the image ANY angle including side and selfie.


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## Crosswind (Sep 11, 2016)

Any guess what shutter life expectancy the EOS M5 might have?

Somewhere I read: "Canon EOS M3 Mirrorless shutter life ~ 100,000 (probably will go over 150k because of the vibration compensation mechanism)."

That's the same statistical number as the Canon EOS 6D and 70D (rated ~ 100,000). So the M5 might live (statistically seen) much longer due to less moving parts and the vibration compensation mechanism.

But there's the fact that mirrorless will always have a Live View active and a DSLR does not, so it is constantly heating up the sensor. Is this a reason to believe that mirrorless might still be less durable than DSLRs in the long run?


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## Rocky (Sep 11, 2016)

Crosswind said:


> Any guess what shutter life expectancy the EOS M5 might have?
> 
> Somewhere I read: "Canon EOS M3 Mirrorless shutter life ~ 100,000 (probably will go over 150k because of the vibration compensation mechanism)."
> 
> ...


Based on my own experience with the 40D and the 20D, Shutter and mirror mechanism is my least concern. The shutter release button, the AF accuracy and repeatabilty are the first to fail.


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## hubie (Sep 11, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> hmm, comparing size/weight from rumored specs. As feared, it really is as bulky as an SL-1 and much higher than Sony A6300 due to that whale hump on top ...
> 
> Canon EOS M5 .............. 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6 mm, 427g, crop 1.6x
> Canon EOS 100D/SL-1 ... 117 x 91 x 69 mm, 407g, crop 1.6x
> ...



Well, 60g between the a6300 and the canon is not a world. Let's see how they compare side by side, also featurewise. Else, a 550g full frame camera also has it's downside. E.g. the weight distribution and the grip when equipped with large professional lenses.


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## rrcphoto (Sep 11, 2016)

hubie said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > hmm, comparing size/weight from rumored specs. As feared, it really is as bulky as an SL-1 and much higher than Sony A6300 due to that whale hump on top ...
> ...



well i'll trade 60g for a real grip and less cramped ergonomics.


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## Quackator (Sep 11, 2016)

Canon seriously missed their objectives.

They announced that they wanted to reach sales rank #2 in MILC 
during Q3/Q4 2016. Looks like they miserably failed and missed by 
landing on #1.....

Preordered!


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## HaroldC3 (Sep 12, 2016)

Quackator said:


> Canon seriously missed their objectives.
> 
> They announced that they wanted to reach sales rank #2 in MILC
> during Q3/Q4 2016. Looks like they miserably failed and missed by
> ...



How can you pre-order something when it hasn't been announced and you have no idea what the price is? You writing Canon a blank check?


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## whatta (Sep 12, 2016)

tomsop said:


> I have stuck with and suffered with the original m once they offered it on fire sale at 299. As long as these specs remain I will be ordering as soon as I am able, price will not be holding me back. I am glad my issues are finally being addressed and can't wait to invest in new lenses for the camera as well.



a bit similar here. I have been very disappointed with canon for many years (550d was probably the last relatively good rebel and 80d seems to be the first catch up in sensor tech). I hated that if I wanted to step up from rebel, I needed to buy something bigger and heavier. Therefore also never wanted full frame.

I was considering the sony a6300, but then realized sony focuses on full frame since there is no competition there, so does not develop apsc lenses anymore. Then I moved my interest on fuji which has super apsc lens lineup and xt2 looks great BUT it would cost me thousands of euros to jump.

therefore this looks interesting because I can keep using my lenses and wait for (good/better) native ef-m lenses (hopefully cannon will not assume that mirrorless users don't want good glass, or they should buy ff glass).

btw does it have gps?


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## whatta (Sep 12, 2016)

scyrene said:


> This has to be the most positive response to a new Canon camera I've seen in all my time here.


true 8)


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## Hector1970 (Sep 12, 2016)

Just before this announcement I unfortunately (or maybe fortunately we'll see) went for an Olympus mirror less camera. I wanted something compact for travel and to have with me in the car at all times.
I wasn't convinced of Canons commitment to mirror less. The didn't show ambition in this area. 
I considered cancelling my order when this news broke but Ice stuck with my decision.
Why - Funny reasoning maybe but Olympus and Panasonic gave a number of very good small and fast prime lens for the 4/3 system. 
Maybe Canon will some day achieve the same but it will take some time (if they are really committed). Yes you can buy an adapter but I'm looking for a smallish and lightish kit.
Time will tell if I've made a mistake but I don't think I have.
I'm not expecting brilliant quality. Good quality will do me. It's more about the flexibility to take good photographs and not be so concerned about ultimate image quality/ pixel peeping. I think some of the functions being added to cameras are bordering on superfluous.


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## Crosswind (Sep 12, 2016)

This is one important question for me: I do have ~ *-3,5 diopters*, so looking through the EVF on the M5 would require me to adjust the diopter setting wheel nearby the EVF, but *I have a fear that it wont fully compensate for my bad vision* so I either have to always wear glasses to make use of the EVF, or use something like a dioptric lens to put in front of the EVF. Is there anything like that to buy, or do I have to come up with a DIY solution?

(The native diopter correction of the 6D does not fully compensate for my bad vision, so I do have a -4 dioptric lens for its OVF, which works great. I hope that there will be something for the M5 too.)

_Edit: I thought about somehow glueing a smaller dioptric lens in front of or inside the EVF of the M5, if I had to. But I'm not sure if that'd work and how it'd look._


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## Josh Denver (Sep 12, 2016)

Rocky said:


> Crosswind said:
> 
> 
> > Any guess what shutter life expectancy the EOS M5 might have?
> ...




True. I have 110.000+ shutter accuations on my Canon 2011 1100D/T3 (Canon's weakest and most plastic DSLR ever made). And it's working like a charm both AF and Shutter. Cannot tell it apart from a new one. 

Don't worry about shutters. When they fail on cheap cameras it's time to upgrade anyway, and when they fail on high end cameras they sre easily replaced.


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## whatta (Sep 12, 2016)

Josh Denver said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Crosswind said:
> ...



I donno where I am in terms of total pictures taken, but my 400d works without issue after so many years, including some trips to deserts where sand and dust are serious issue..


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## whatta (Sep 12, 2016)

in any case, Photokina will be a good occasion to play around with Sony A6300, Fuji XT2 and Canon M5 (which I am interested in currently).


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## nads (Sep 12, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> Just before this announcement I unfortunately (or maybe fortunately we'll see) went for an Olympus mirror less camera. I wanted something compact for travel and to have with me in the car at all times.
> I wasn't convinced of Canons commitment to mirror less. The didn't show ambition in this area.
> I considered cancelling my order when this news broke but Ice stuck with my decision.
> Why - Funny reasoning maybe but Olympus and Panasonic gave a number of very good small and fast prime lens for the 4/3 system.
> ...



I tried that twice. First with an early PEN and 2nd with the E-M10. Hated them both. Image quality didn't blow me away and AF Accuracy SUCKED! Say what you will about the original EOS-M's slow AF... sure it was slow as heck. But when that thing locked in focus in face detect mode it nailed it reliably. The E-M10 was lightning quick and responsive as heck... super efficient at catching images that weren't quite in focus. Took a bath twice selling those things!

The smallish, lightweight kit is another gripe for me. The 11-22 is a favorite for me, especially when traveling. With micro four thirds I had to go bigger to get the 7-14 and spend a lot more.


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## nads (Sep 12, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> ggweci said:
> 
> 
> > I expect that the M5 will "feel" much smaller that the SL1 even though the measurements seem similar. I thickness of the M5 includes the substantial grip and protruding EVF, whereas the SL1 is mainly due to the requirement of the mirror box. The actually volume of the SL1 would be a fair bit greater.
> ...


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## rrcphoto (Sep 13, 2016)

Images of the 18-150mm












appears shorter than the 55-200 (edit nope, same size)

I actually liked the size of the 55-200 EF-M on the M3 .. so I'm thinking this just may be a great walkaround. combine this and the 11-22 and you have a pretty mighty little travel package.


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## pokerz (Sep 13, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Images of the 18-150mm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any Zoom lock?
Is it weather sealed?


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## rrcphoto (Sep 13, 2016)

pokerz said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Images of the 18-150mm
> ...



a) no EF-M lens has needed it .. so doubtful
b) no EF-M lens is over 260g and $399 .. draw your own conclusions


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## ritholtz (Sep 13, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Images of the 18-150mm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks nice. They have their own design theme. 11-22mm, 18-150mm and 22mm will cover lot of situations. Size wise, carrying them all is doable.


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## ahsanford (Sep 13, 2016)

pokerz said:


> Any Zoom lock?
> Is it weather sealed?



Zoom lock: on a plastic lens with low mass? Not seeing the need.

Weather sealing... again, on a plastic lens for $300? This lens doesn't even have USM focusing and possibly not FTM mechanical focusing, which is usually the 'middle' trimline in a budget/premium/L trio of lenses. So this, like every lens in the EF-M mount that Canon offers, is a budget lens for (what is presently) a budget system. 

Put another way: this economy car has a 4 gear transmission... and you're effectively asking where the paddle shifters are to get to 7th gear. 

- A


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## Hector1970 (Sep 13, 2016)

nads said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > Just before this announcement I unfortunately (or maybe fortunately we'll see) went for an Olympus mirror less camera. I wanted something compact for travel and to have with me in the car at all times.
> ...



I might update when I get the camera and lens and see what the Olympus system is like. 24mm equivalent is generally wide enough for when travelling. I do like the 16-35mm F4 IS myself. It's one of the issues with micro 4/3 which I am prepared to live with for the compact size (ie the lack of extreme wide angle lens).
It will be interesting how big the M5 system will be. It looks big in the pictures but that may be just it's styling. If there were rumors of some great fast primes lens in the pipeline I might have reversed my Olympus decision. They may come in time.
Not sure if micro 4/3 will stand the test of time. I guess it depends on what they can compact into a small sensor.


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## d (Sep 13, 2016)

Another of the M5 - this time with the 18-150 mounted:


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## 1mk (Sep 13, 2016)

Camera looks great with the 18-150. I can't wait to see the official release and pricing.


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## dak723 (Sep 13, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> nads said:
> 
> 
> > Hector1970 said:
> ...



Along with my Canon, I own an Olympus E-M1. If that's what you got, you won't be disappointed. I use it far more than my 6D due to its smaller size and compactness. The higher end Olympus lenses are very high quality. Yes, it's a smaller sensor, but the only time I notice any difference between that and my Canon is in low light situations.


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## pokerz (Sep 14, 2016)

LP-E17 Battery
Dual Pixel AF and EVF but with Eosm3 battery :-[
Can M5 survive after 200 shots?


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## d (Sep 14, 2016)

pokerz said:


> LP-E17 Battery
> Dual Pixel AF and EVF but with Eosm3 battery :-[
> Can M5 survive after 200 shots?



3.2" screen as well (M3 is 3"), and more pixels.


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## Sportsgal501 (Sep 14, 2016)

Going to keep my eye on this one still need to add a mirror-less to pack.


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## lw (Sep 14, 2016)

Rumours seems to be confirmed now

EOS M5
- Sensor: Effective pixels 24.2 million pixels (the total number of pixels 25.8 million pixels) APS-C CMOS
- Dual Pixel CMOS AF
- The video engine: DIGIC 7
- ISO Sensitivity: 100-25600
- Shutter speed: 1 / 4000-30 seconds
- The maximum flash synchro shutter speed 1/200 sec
- Continuous shooting: up to about 9 frames / sec., About 7 frames / sec (at the time of AF follow-up?)
- Video: Full HD 60p, 5-axis electronic image stabilization
- EVF: 236 Man dot
- Monitor: 3.2 inches 1.62 million dot touch panel movable LCD
- Wireless: Wi-Fi (IEEE 802.11b / g / n), Bluetooth (4.1)
- Battery: LP-E17
- Media: SD / SDHC / SDXC card (UHS-I compatible)
- Size (width x height x depth): 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6 mm
- Weight: about 380g (body only), 427g (including battery · SD card)

(source Digicame )


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## Sharlin (Sep 14, 2016)

Plus a new clear picture of the backside. Shame that there's no room for Menu and Info on the left shoulder like (finally) in all the DSLR models.

Interesting that they brought the 1D/5D 1.6MP back LCD to the M5. I'm a bit jelly now with my 80D.

Same LP-17 battery as the M3, that's too bad.

Remains to be seen what's the difference between the 7fps and 9fps modes - AF tracking and/or electronic shutter?


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## njene (Sep 14, 2016)

I like what i see
If the price is competitive, canon will sell many of these, including one for me.


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## NorbR (Sep 14, 2016)

Can't remember the last time a camera rumor fit my own expectations so well ...
It even takes LP-E17 batteries, which I'm not too unhappy about, I still have a spare lying around. 

I'm still waiting to hear something I don't like about this camera (hopefully it won't be the price ...)


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## lw (Sep 14, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> Plus a new clear picture of the backside. Shame that there's no room for Menu and Info on the left shoulder like (finally) in all the DSLR models.
> 
> Interesting that they brought the 1D/5D 1.6MP back LCD to the M5. I'm a bit jelly now with my 80D.
> 
> Same LP-17 battery as the M3, that's too bad.



Yes, the bigger, higher res screen looks good. I want to know what the magnification is on the EVF though. Hope its not tiny... 
Agreed, the same battery looks bad... At least they are small and you can carry a bunch with you


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## pokerz (Sep 14, 2016)

lw said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Plus a new clear picture of the backside. Shame that there's no room for Menu and Info on the left shoulder like (finally) in all the DSLR models.
> ...


will it compete with XT1 huge EVF or A6300 high res EVF?


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## lw (Sep 14, 2016)

pokerz said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



I have the same as the A6300 in my RX10 - 0.7x magnification. 
0.77x of the XT1/2 would be fantastic, but 0.7x is fine.
Anything less though, gets the thumbs down...


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## ritholtz (Sep 14, 2016)

lw said:


> Rumours seems to be confirmed now
> 
> EOS M5
> - Sensor: Effective pixels 24.2 million pixels (the total number of pixels 25.8 million pixels) APS-C CMOS
> ...


No 1/8000 sec shutter speed. is flash commander included ?


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## Sharlin (Sep 14, 2016)

ritholtz said:


> No 1/8000 sec shutter speed. is flash commander included ?



Fortunately the native EF-M lenses are so slow that you never need such a fast shutter speed 

(* yes, I know, the 22mm _f_/2 is an exception.)


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## brightside (Sep 14, 2016)

Hmmmm. These specs are making me feel this camera is going to be pricier that we think...


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## vau (Sep 14, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> ritholtz said:
> 
> 
> > No 1/8000 sec shutter speed. is flash commander included ?
> ...



There might be some additional native exceptions around, like the Mitakon Speedmaster 35mm f/0.95 Mark II, which happens to be the fastest of them all.


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## rrcphoto (Sep 14, 2016)

lw said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > lw said:
> ...



probably not specified.
the G5x .. everyone though the magnification was good, but no specs on it.


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## elcpu (Sep 14, 2016)

I own an M3 with four M lenses and this is great news to me. If the price is reasonable Canon will have another buyer. I hope there is one left for me to buy... LOL. I am a newbie on this forum, thanks to all who have provided great information.


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## drjlo (Sep 14, 2016)

lw said:


> EOS M5
> 
> - Size (width x height x depth): *115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6 mm*
> - Weight: about 380g (body only), *427g (including battery* · SD card)



VS. 

EOS M3 
-Size* 111 x 68 x 44 mm*
- Weight: *(366 g) includes batteries*

Personally, I view the M series as a great portable camera option when I do not/cannot carry big camera/lenses. 
Thus, the increased size and weight is not particularly welcome, and since the 22 f/2 lens pretty much lives on my M, I would have loved to see other small yet fast EF-M prime lenses announced. 

If Canon had kept the size and weight similar and implemented a pop-up EVF (a la Sony RX100 III) instead of the middle hump like Olympus, I would have considered buying it..


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## rrcphoto (Sep 14, 2016)

drjlo said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > EOS M5
> ...



sure .. if they took away the ILC lens mount off the M3 they just may have fit all that in too.


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## tan oak (Sep 15, 2016)

Sharlin said:


>



The new M5 power switch provides visual feedback regarding on/off status. When the M3 LCD shuts off I have occasionally assumed my M3 is powered down when it is actually in sleep mode which eventually drains the battery.


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## d (Sep 15, 2016)

Here's a first look by Digidirect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrYFeBjZN_4

d.


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## Empyrean (Sep 15, 2016)

Looks like the body's it peeked its head out on Canon's site (attached)...


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## tan oak (Sep 15, 2016)

Canon's own youtube video describing M5 features

https://youtu.be/z0If-yw2AOI


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## d (Sep 15, 2016)

FINALLY!!! The single AF point gives you two sizes!!!


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## Sharlin (Sep 15, 2016)

tan oak said:


> Canon's own youtube video describing M5 features
> 
> https://youtu.be/z0If-yw2AOI



So it does have EOS menus. Nice.


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## elcpu (Sep 16, 2016)

I went ahead a pre-ordered an M5 from B&H today with the 15-45, a lens I did not have. The kit was $1,100, basically an extra $120 for the lens. Delivery after Nov 30. I also pre-ordered the 18-150 lens separately, delivery after Dec 30. I feel a little iffy about this lens, if the reviews are poor I will cancel the order.


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## Refurb7 (Sep 16, 2016)

lw said:


> pokerz said:
> 
> 
> > lw said:
> ...



I don't like EVF's in principle, but could likely tolerate a larger one. A small EVF would probably ruin this camera for me.


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## KeithBreazeal (Dec 9, 2016)

Ordered today from B&H. Looks like December 18th is a target date. I also ordered the EF/EFS adapter. If it works as planned, I'll find a new home for the 7D. It will make a good third body(and lighter) when packing the other beasts.


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## photogdan (Dec 9, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Ordered today from B&H. Looks like December 18th is a target date. I also ordered the EF/EFS adapter. If it works as planned, I'll find a new home for the 7D. It will make a good third body(and lighter) when packing the other beasts.



Adorama has them in stock. Ordered mine yesterday, received it today.
http://www.adorama.com/icam5.html


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## wockawocka (Dec 9, 2016)

What's the lag like between the EVF and the shutter.

I liked the A7ii but still, the lag between the shot and the screen refresh rate was a problem for me. You could easily miss continuity.


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## bholliman (Dec 9, 2016)

wockawocka said:


> What's the lag like between the EVF and the shutter.
> 
> I liked the A7ii but still, the lag between the shot and the screen refresh rate was a problem for me. You could easily miss continuity.



There is a little lag, but not enough to get in the way of taking pictures - I haven't found it to be a problem. This is coming from a guy with only OVF experience, I've never tried an EVF until I received my M5. 

Overall I'm pleased with the M5. I really like the ability to adjust the focus point using the LCD screen, I just need to remember to keep my nose out of the way or it will touch the LCD and I'll re-focus in the wrong place.

I took it out yesterday for some tripod mounted sunrise shots and it performed well and I appreciated the tilting LCD. There are sufficient control dials for me to operate the camera similar to how I use my 5DsR, but I do occasionally hit the wrong button since the body is small and everything is close together. When shooting on a tripod for landscape photography, my normal set-up is to use live view and adjust the shutter speed using the back dial for manual exposure bracketing. Doing that with the M5 caused me to accidentally push the top of the back dial (default to ISO) and change the ISO from 100 to 25,600 a few times inadvertently. Chill factor was in the low teens F, so cold fingers contributed to my problems as well. I plan to reconfigure the controls so that doesn't happen again. Overall, the minor issues I'm having are mostly due to my inexperience with the camera, its already getting better. 

When I took the M5 with the 22/2 mounted to a recent school event with the kids (4,5,7), it performed well and my wife commented that she appreciated me not lugging around a conspicious "pro" camera. So, that is certainly a positive point as well!


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## elcpu (Dec 23, 2016)

I received the M5 15-45 kit and the 18-150 lens from B&H earlier this week and my preliminary impressions are very favorable. The M5 is a big improvement over my M3, particularly the faster focussing and the continuous shooting capabilities. The build quality seems higher as well. However I have also accidentally changed the back dial (ISO), have to get used to the compact design. I need to use it so more before I can comment on the lenses but so far so good.


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