# New Type of Camera Coming from Canon Ahead of Photokina [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 7, 2018)

```
We continue to hear murmurs about a new style of camera coming from Canon ahead of Photokina.</p>
<p>We have touched on this in the past and continue to see mentions of it in our inbox. The problem is we’re not hearing about it from known sources, but what we’re being told doesn’t seem to be wishlist type of stuff that we get from time to time.</p>
<p>A couple of people have said the new camera is video oriented, but will also be a “capable stills shooter” and come with an EF mount. The camera will technically be a “mirrorless” camera, but it won’t be part of the EOS M lineup.</p>
<p>This could just be the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/a-new-style-of-camera-from-canon-currently-being-tested-cr2/">XC style camera with an EF mount</a>, or it could be something else.</p>
<p>2018 has been a difficult year so far when it comes to confirming information, but a lot of what we’re being told from unknown people all seems to be pointing in the same direction.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## sanj (May 7, 2018)

Mirrorless.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 7, 2018)

I'm wondering about that patent we saw for a light field camera last week. It was called out as being a quad pixel patent, but it was actually a light field camera.

That would certainly qualify as something totally new, no one has made a light field camera using dual or quad pixels.


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## unfocused (May 7, 2018)

It's a large sensor interchangeable lens cell phone, Harry Film Edition. Comes packaged with Fairy Dust and delivered by your own personal flying unicorn.


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## canonnews (May 7, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'm wondering about that patent we saw for a light field camera last week. It was called out as being a quad pixel patent, but it was actually a light field camera.
> 
> That would certainly qualify as something totally new, no one has made a light field camera using dual or quad pixels.



you're reading too much into it. Most of canon's patent applications dealing with phase difference at the sub pixel (dual or quad) refer to it as light field data.


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## unfocused (May 7, 2018)

canonnews said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I'm wondering about that patent we saw for a light field camera last week. It was called out as being a quad pixel patent, but it was actually a light field camera.
> ...



I'm guessing we are years away from a Canon branded light field camera. For something that significant, I would expect there would be a series of development announcements, stockholder presentations, promotional videos, etc., before anything ever hits the shelves. It's also likely that we will see a gradual, incremental incorporation of the technology into the existing lineup rather than a completely new camera.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 7, 2018)

canonnews said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I'm wondering about that patent we saw for a light field camera last week. It was called out as being a quad pixel patent, but it was actually a light field camera.
> ...



Perhaps, I am not saying this is it, but putting it out for discussion. I can certainly be wrong. There are multiple references in the patent to refocus processing. Of course, that can be done now with a 5D MK IV to a very limited extent, so it could just be a extension of that capability to a quad pixel sensor.

Certainly, the primary virtue of the patent is stated as a supressed file size, but, thats also what is needed to make a light field camera practical.

Usually, they do not just toss stuff in a patent unless it serves a purpose. Refocus techniques are definitely discussed.

* I think this is a broad hint that it could be applied to a light field camera:

"[0003] Ren Ng et al, "Light Field Photography with a
Hand-Held Plenoptic Camera", Stanford Tech Report CTSR
2005 February , 2005 Apr. 20) discloses a refocus technique
in which the in-focus position of the captured image is
changed after shooting by using LF data to combine images
in an imaging plane (virtual imaging plane) different from
that at the time of shooting."

* The patent describes the formation of multiple images with different focus points by combining the 
images captured from various combinations of pixels. This is how a light field camera could work.

"0150 The embodiments above described a case in which
the present invention was applied to the generation of an
image file containing parallax images. However, the present
invention can also be applied to the generation of an image
file containing other images having a relationship between a
portion and the whole, as with parallax images and a normal
image, or a relationship in which one image is generated
from another."


* The Patent discusses another aspect of a light field camera.

"14. The electronic device according to claim 11, wherein
the image processing includes at least one of refocus processing,
viewpoint changing processing, defocus map generation
processing, and three-dimensional image generation
processing."

(Claim 11 referenced above should be read with claim 14 above in mind) I read it as the possibility of creating interpolated images as needed to construct a refocused image.

"[0011] According to a further aspect of the present invention,
there is provided a method for controlling an image
processing apparatus, comprising: obtaining data of one or
more of a plurality of first images; obtaining data of a second
image corresponding to a combined image of the plurality of
first images; and generating an image file containing the data
of the second image and data of a portion of the plurality of
first images, wherein the image file is generated such that the
image file does not contain data of, among the plurality of
first images, a first image that can be generated from a first
image and the second image stored in the image file."


The big question is how you could get adequate refocus processing over more than a tiny distance, which is a problem for me with my 5D MK IV.

Although it is not mentioned, a quad pixel processor allows for autofocus in both landscape and portrait orientations, a potential benefit.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 7, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > canonnews said:
> ...



You may recall the story that Canon told about development of the dual pixel sensor where they formed a team with experts from across the company. Canon is a large company with some extremely talented people.


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## transpo1 (May 7, 2018)

This looks promising- finally, Canon may again deliver a capable hybrid video/stills camera with competitive video specs. To compete, it has to have no-crop 4K 60p and a useable codec with DPAF (in 4K, which goes without saying).


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## sanj (May 7, 2018)

unfocused said:


> canonnews said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Never heard of any such event. But what do I know...


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## MiJax (May 7, 2018)

I've often thought Canon should have tried something new with their first big sensor mirrorless. Anyone else consider they might be releasing a crop Medium Format sensor? It solves the issues with forcing a customer base to buy a new set of lenses, as no one would expect to shoot medium format on 35mm lenses. Also, the mirrorless MF camera just makes sense. If you are going to throw away the mirror box you'll get the most benefits from the losing the larger mirrors. That said those shooting MF will likely be more resistant to losing their OVF than those shooting 35mm, but as Canon has no foothold in the market maybe it's a good time to define it. Also I can't imagine this would be a huge market, but odder things have happened. Full disclosure I don't honestly think this is Canon's direction (mostly due to the Hybrid O-EVF rumored), just another thought to get people's minds spinning.


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## Talys (May 7, 2018)

unfocused said:


> It's a large sensor interchangeable lens cell phone, Harry Film Edition. Comes packaged with Fairy Dust and delivered by your own personal flying unicorn.



Let's not exaggerate. We all know that the flying unicorns remain corporate property and you can only ace them through a monthly subscription.


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## unfocused (May 7, 2018)

sanj said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > ..For something that significant, I would expect there would be a series of development announcements, stockholder presentations, promotional videos, etc., before anything ever hits the shelves...
> ...


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## unfocused (May 7, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing we are years away from a Canon branded light field camera. For something that significant, I would expect there would be a series of development announcements, stockholder presentations, promotional videos, etc., before anything ever hits the shelves. It's also likely that we will see a gradual, incremental incorporation of the technology into the existing lineup rather than a completely new camera.
> ...



Ahh yes...I forgot about him. Perhaps this is the special surprise he promised to reveal a couple of weeks ago. Let me guess, his overlords found out he was going to give it away and started throwing furniture, so now he's under a non-disclosure agreement.


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## canonnews (May 7, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> canonnews said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



You missed my point. Canon has basically called any dual pixel sensor data to quad pixel data lightfield data, because it all contains spacial information. it's their patent-ty word for basically a depth map.


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## HarryFilm (May 7, 2018)

unfocused said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



---

Overlord was not just throwing chairs...broke his hand on said chair AFTER punching it! ... Like I said, the NEXT announcement is going to be a DOOOOOZIE!!!!

Hmmm....do I want the ALL-GREY leather flight seats for the 429, or should I go for the tan and black trim triple stitched leather??? Do I spent extra for the Nightvision IFR system? What to choose....what to choose.......


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 7, 2018)

canonnews said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > canonnews said:
> ...



I did not miss your point, the terms light field and refocus are commonly used in dozens, if not hundreds of recent patents, often with respect to microlenses and autofocus technology. 


I doubt if we will ever see a product, I have no use for a lightfield camera, but then, I've said things like that before and had to eat my words.


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## jolyonralph (May 7, 2018)

MiJax said:


> I've often thought Canon should have tried something new with their first big sensor mirrorless.



How about a circular sensor?

http://www.everyothershot.com/whats-better-full-frame-sensor-circular-sensor-course/


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## HarryFilm (May 7, 2018)

unfocused said:


> It's a large sensor interchangeable lens cell phone, Harry Film Edition. Comes packaged with Fairy Dust and delivered by your own personal flying unicorn.



===

COMING SOON FROM CANON:

1) Canon APS-C sensor DCI 4K 60 fps Smartphone. Yes.

2) Canon APS-C sensor DCI 4K 60 fps Smartphone. Yup and YES!

3) Canon APS-C sensor DCI 4K 60 fps Smartphone. Oh Yeaaaahhhh Babeee!!!!

4) Canon VERY LARGE SENSOR Medium Format 
16-bits per channel 8192 x 6144 pixel (50 mpxl) 
25 fps burst mode JPEG-2000/RAW stills camera 
in oversize 1DxMk2 body with full-sensor 
downsample to DCI 4k 10-bit 4:2:2 60 fps video !!! 

--- KA-POOOOOWWWW !!!! 

--- Phase-One, Hasselblad, Leica downed in Triple KO !!!!


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## tmroper (May 7, 2018)

I read "new style" to mean a new form factor. And while I can't think of specific model names, it seems to me radically new camera form factors don't have a history of doing very well. Maybe that's why, for all it's tech innovations, Sony went with what's basically a 1970s SLR form factor for the Alphas. Just because you re-do the insides, doesn't mean you need a completely new and "futuristic" body design.


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## Talys (May 7, 2018)

tmroper said:


> I read "new style" to mean a new form factor. And while I can't think of specific model names, it seems to me radically new camera form factors don't have a history of doing very well. Maybe that's why, for all it's tech innovations, Sony went with what's basically a 1970s SLR form factor for the Alphas. Just because you re-do the insides, doesn't mean you need a completely new and "futuristic" body design.



The 1970's want their hard edges back. All it does is make all those edges and corners wear faster if you actually use your camera =\

The 70's want back their jingling chrome eyelet camera strap loops too. Hey guys, my camera compensates for its shutter being silent by the camera being noisy


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## RGF (May 8, 2018)

unfocused said:


> It's a large sensor interchangeable lens cell phone, Harry Film Edition. Comes packaged with Fairy Dust and delivered by your own personal flying unicorn.



Do you mean a joint venture w Apple to produce a Canon iPhone? Perhaps Apple purchased Canon which is why Warren Buffet invested in Appple?


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## HarryFilm (May 8, 2018)

RGF said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > It's a large sensor interchangeable lens cell phone, Harry Film Edition. Comes packaged with Fairy Dust and delivered by your own personal flying unicorn.
> ...



---

Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea. 

From a technical point of view, I understand why they passed on the digital printing technology (a correct decision I might add!) as I had heard in a rather roundabout way that Jon Ives (i.e. chief of Apple product design) state that hardcopy PAPER printing was a dead end and that small high pixel count cameras on portable products were going to be the "Next Big Thing!"

Apple then passed on the chance to buy Canon outright for a few years ...BUT... I have heard on the grapevine of product engineering sources that Apple is AGAIN taking a hard look at Canon for it's precision optics used in CPU production, Motherboard fabrication and quality control AND for it's now SUPERIOR super-low-light capable sensors. Apple has been using Sony sensors for a while now and recent restrictions caused by Sony Sensor production issues has hit Apple hard from a product backlog point of view and they are thinking about taking ALL forms of CPU production AND camera sensor AND lens production FULLY IN-HOUSE !!! 

Buying Canon OUTRIGHT would let them do that AND by rebranding DSLR/Mirrorless Canon cameras and lenses with Apple logos, it would let them serve the imaging pros to a new level. Apple APS-C and Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras mated to FULLY IN-HOUSE high end CPU production using Canon precision optics would DEFINITELY MAKE SENSE from a technology point of view and since Apple can EASILY BUY ALL OF Canon for about $47 Billion US with a 15-to-20 percent share price premium, I think it makes product technology sense for Apple to do that! 

I have ALSO HEARD on the grapevine that Apple is looking to BUY OUTRIGHT a company called "MarkForged" aka www.markforged.com and using POSSIBLY newly-purchased Canon optics and QA-control married with MarkForged-sourced high-precision 3D carbon fibre, ceramic and metal printing to make a Fast and "Relatively Inexpensive Price Point" APPLE-branded Metal/Plastic/Ceramic 3D Printer for the worldwide 3,500,000 engineers who could afford to buy Apple-branded desktop and professional versions for between $1500 to $25,000+ US! One thing that I have heard that Jon Ives (Apple design chief) wants in 3D printing, is the addition of multi-colour 3D printed interiors, surfacing and finishing and with Canon's multi-colour inkjet and colour laser print technology mated to MarkForged 3D printers such corporate purchases WOULD DEFINITELY FACILITATE such desires! 

In my estimate, total market value for such products is about $5.5 Billion per year to as much as $35 Billion US per year for the 3D printers themselves and LIKELY about a SUSTAINED $60 to $80 Billion per year for the plastic, metal and ceramic powder consumables sales PLUS an Apple Store-sourced 3D printable design templates purchases income of likely a SUSTAINED $35 Billion US per year, so it's maybe as much as $140 Billion U.S. PER YEAR of GROSS INCOME coming from 3D printed products for Apple which is NOTHING TO SNEEZE AT !!!! 

Top-notch EASY-TO-USE Apple design and production software married with FAST AND PRECISE MarkForged 3D printing hardware mated to Canon inkjet/colour laser print and precision optics technology would be the NEXT KILLER PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT from Apple !!!! 

SO THERE! AGAIN, YOU HAVE HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!!


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## fullstop (May 8, 2018)

all i expect from "innovative canon" is a slightly updated xc-10 type body with EF mount. which of course should already have been on the original xc-10. "exciting new gear" from canon is usually exactly 1 generation/level behind expectations. 

smartphone with aps-c sensor will not happen for physical size reasons. 
canon "medium format" is very unlikely for economical reasons. very limited market niche and strongly established competitors owning it.


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## Quarkcharmed (May 8, 2018)

Medium mirrorless format with totally incompatible lens lineup, yay. EF becomes FAIL, Focusing Anamorphic Interchangeable Lens.


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## jolyonralph (May 8, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> I have ALSO HEARD on the grapevine that Apple is looking to BUY OUTRIGHT a company called ...



Aha, so now your motivations here are clear.


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## ewg963 (May 8, 2018)

Hmmmmmm very interesting and exciting... Time will tell. 8)


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## jolyonralph (May 8, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'm wondering about that patent we saw for a light field camera last week. It was called out as being a quad pixel patent, but it was actually a light field camera.
> 
> That would certainly qualify as something totally new, no one has made a light field camera using dual or quad pixels.



Not entirely true, processing the 5D IV images with DPP gives *some* kind of focus adjust using dual pixel.

Remember the Lytro had to use 100 pixels (approx) on the sensor to get a single 'light ray' corresponding to a pixel on the finished image. 4 sub-pixels isn't going to give the ability to do more than very slight focus adjustment.


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## scyrene (May 8, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.



I know everything you post here is nonsense, but did Apple have the resources to buy Canon back then? It's the richest company in the world (more or less) NOW, but 2005 was long before even the iPhone - does anyone have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was as big as or bigger than Apple in those days.


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## unfocused (May 8, 2018)

scyrene said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.
> ...



Oh that's just the tip of the nonsense iceberg.



HarryFilm said:


> ... hardcopy PAPER printing was a dead end...



That would be the same "hardcopy paper printing" that allowed Canon's office products division to offset losses in its imaging division during the meltdown of the point and shoot market. There were several years when Canon's office products division was profitable while the imaging division was suffering losses. One reason why diversification is a smart move for a company like Canon. 



HarryFilm said:


> ...by rebranding DSLR/Mirrorless Canon cameras and lenses with Apple logos...



More nonsense



HarryFilm said:


> ...make a Fast and "Relatively Inexpensive Price Point" APPLE-branded Metal/Plastic/Ceramic 3D Printer for the worldwide 3,500,000 engineers who could afford to buy Apple-branded desktop and professional versions for between $1500 to $25,000+ US!...multi-colour 3D printed interiors, surfacing and finishing and with Canon's multi-colour inkjet and colour laser print technology mated to MarkForged 3D printers...Top-notch EASY-TO-USE Apple design and production software married with FAST AND PRECISE MarkForged 3D printing hardware mated to Canon inkjet/colour laser print and precision optics technology would be the NEXT KILLER PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT from Apple !!!!



A jumble of mixed-up nonsense from someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Or, even what 3D printers do.



HarryFilm said:


> SO THERE! AGAIN, YOU HAVE HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!!



Yes, we have heard another stinking pile of nonsense.


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## criscokkat (May 9, 2018)

fullstop said:


> all i expect from "innovative canon" is a slightly updated xc-10 type body with EF mount. which of course should already have been on the original xc-10. "exciting new gear" from canon is usually exactly 1 generation/level behind expectations.
> 
> smartphone with aps-c sensor will not happen for physical size reasons.
> canon "medium format" is very unlikely for economical reasons. very limited market niche and strongly established competitors owning it.



I actually think something between 35mm and medium format could happen. If Canon more or less keeps the EF mount (by either using the EF mount or creating a new mount with an adapter that keeps a very wide throat) you could create an upsized sensor for your high end range.

It does *not* need to be something that sells very many units to have a very large impact of the entire line. 90% of the full frame L lenses would cover something up to 42mm. This type of sensor could also have a big impact with stabilization as you can capture something at 35mm full frame but have extra play to apply stabilization techniques using all of the bigger than 35mm sensor areas. The impact of Canon being able to say "We can go larger than 35 mm with the lenses you already own, and by the way we have lenses that are even better than that now" cannot be overstated. Even if you have no need for a sensor that large or want to pay the premium to get it, the thought that one day it will be cheaper or even standard will convince people to invest in the Canon ecosystem over competitors. 

With the current Sony emount they have reached that limit by locking themselves in with the throat size they have set. The advantage of the company going first is the ability to get out ahead of everyone and capture market share with the new product. The advantage of the company going last is the opportunity to create a more nuanced product that appeals to a wider audience, or offers some features that make the new product even more compelling than the product that went first. I think Canon is going to add something this time that is out of the box to cement their place on top in the mirrorless world very quickly. 

Going bigger than 35mm is one option that would fit that bill nicely.


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## neuroanatomist (May 9, 2018)

scyrene said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > Coincidentally, Steve Jobs sometime around 2005 was having ACTUAL TALKS in the boardroom of Apple asking board members as whether or not BUYING Canon outright for their colour laser printing technology AND for their precision optical systems technology was a good idea.
> ...



In 2005, Apple's market cap was in the high 20's (billions of $), Canon's was in the low 30's. 

But since when have facts or reality concerned Harry in the slightest?


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## nchoh (May 9, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> fullstop said:
> 
> 
> > all i expect from "innovative canon" is a slightly updated xc-10 type body with EF mount. which of course should already have been on the original xc-10. "exciting new gear" from canon is usually exactly 1 generation/level behind expectations.
> ...



That would actually make sense if Canon were to create a new mount.


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## Mikehit (May 9, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



To be fair, small companies dong leveraged buyouts of much bigger companies was _de rigeur _in the 1980s/1990s. 
Not saying Harry knows what he is talking about, just that knocking him based on company market value is dodgy ground.


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## criscokkat (May 9, 2018)

https://www.cultofmac.com/477553/apple-history-canon-apple-acquisition/

With all the apple/canon talk, don't forget this almost happened.


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## HarryFilm (May 10, 2018)

unfocused said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



===

"....A jumble of mixed-up nonsense from someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Or, even what 3D printers do...."

That is a comment going to a guy who has access to THREE HAAS 5-axis CNC machines AND about TWENTY of the Stratasys 3D fused deposition printers AND a few German-made electron-beam titanium metal powder fusion 3D print machines used to make turbojet, scramjet and rocket motor parts.....AND.... to a guy who has a fully-functional 70,000 lbs of thrust custom 3D metal-printed Turbojet sitting in the company warehouse!

--- I do however agree with you that Canon's diversification was correct and YES the printing division DEFINITELY subsidized parts of Canon but it was the INDUSTRIAL precision optics that REALLY saved Canon's tush during those years. People don't realize how much Canon has in terms of market share for micro-electronics. At one point at the time it was as much as 7% to 12% global marketshare which is TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars.

As of 2017 Canon is now #2 after Largen Precision Optics AND in terms of semiconductor-specific manufacturing optics MAY rise to the top-5 within less than 5 years which is another 30 to 40 billion dollars. Apple's recent look at Canon (I have some VERY GOOD SOURCES for THAT information!) is a good sign that Apple wants to take CPU production TOTALLY IN-HOUSE! 

In 2005 Apple was in enough of a good financial position to actually BE ABLE to engineer a take over and not just merge with Canon! They had enough clout that the financiers of the deal (probably Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley) would DEFINITELY have agreed to do a highly leveraged buyout of Canon since Apple and Canon were roughly similar in size in 2005 ($48 Billion US for Canon July 3, 2005 and 49.8 Billion November 2005 for Apple) 

Canon was the stronger company in terms of physical employee and infrastructure size BUT financially Apple was the more able company to get financing from a Mergers and Acquisitions firm. AND YES! I KNOW on an ABSOLUTE BASIS that the boardroom comment by Steve Jobs was not just made in jest, he was INDEED seriously looking at buying Canon in 2005! -- I'll leave it at that! -- 

The POSSIBLE www.MarkForged.com acquisition by Apple is for 3D composite printing technology which Apple wants to be able to sell to workstation-oriented engineering-specific users (is that WHY the Mac Pro is delayed until 2019? - To get 3D metal/composite printers ready?) AND MAY ALSO BE related to it's current and STILL SECRET in-house Apple Autonomous Vehicle Development being used for production-ready parts manufacturing in a US facility.

Apple wants to do something BIG in 3D composite materials and 3D metal printing
and acquiring Canon AND MarkForged would be a WOW event! Those things look so good, that I'm taking a look at the MarkForged 3D composite printers NOW...AND....I might be getting TWO of them for my own specialty-aerospace works and not just keep using my friend's CNC/3D printing gear all the time!

---

In terms of a takeover of Canon BY Apple, I think it makes FINANCIAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL SENSE !!! Apple gets Canon Semiconductor precision optics to take CPU production and maybe even RAM memory production FULLY IN-HOUSE ....AND....gets access to some of the the best low-light and global shutter sensors in the business...AND...putting a global shutter 2/3rds inch, APS-C or Full Frame 8k sensor on an iPhone or iPad would be AN ABSOLUTELY INSANELY GREAT way to steal smartphone market share from Samsung and China's up-and-coming Huawei, Lenovo and Xiaomi!

There really IS NO DOWNSIDE to Apple Buying Canon Outright...even WITH a 15% share price premium, it's ONLY gonna be somewhere between 47 to 53 Billion Dollars US in terms of a total take-over price! Apple has $160 Billion in the bank! They can DEFINITELY AFFORD IT AND APPLE NEEDS Canon's precision optics, semiconductor manufacturing expertise and the proprietary sensor and lens production technology!

---

P.S. Canon IS STILL coming out with a super large sensor smartphone AND a VERY LARGE SENSOR Medium Format 25 fps burst rate 50 megapixel stills camera!


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## stevelee (May 10, 2018)

Remember when AOL bought out Time/Warner/Turner? Remember all the rumors that Sun would buy Apple? Remember Sun? Neither the rumors or the reality always made a lot of sense, looking back, and may have seemed surreal enough at the time.

And just as Visicalc was the killer app that convinced business that personal computers could be useful, desktop publishing was the killer process (hardware meets software) that made GUI the standard for personal computers eventually. Without the LaserWriter and Quark/Pagemaker, the Mac might never have caught on nor Apple survived to inspire rumors of what to do with hundreds of billions of dollars of spare change lying around.

And bizarre as it seems to probably most of us, one the main reasons some people upgrade their phones these days is to get a better camera. 

So to say that Canon posses technology that could be at the core of Apple's continued success is not a stretch. And the vice versa someone has already suggested is that Apple's custom chip technology for producing powerful, small, efficient microprocessors could get us to leap to Digic 19 all of a sudden, maybe.

So while I think that Apple's swallowing Canon whole seems out of character, crazier things have happened, and there do seem to be some dots there to connect in one's imagination.


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## HarryFilm (May 10, 2018)

stevelee said:


> Remember when AOL bought out Time/Warner/Turner? Remember all the rumors that Sun would buy Apple? Remember Sun? Neither the rumors or the reality always made a lot of sense, looking back, and may have seemed surreal enough at the time.
> 
> And just as Visicalc was the killer app that convinced business that personal computers could be useful, desktop publishing was the killer process (hardware meets software) that made GUI the standard for personal computers eventually. Without the LaserWriter and Quark/Pagemaker, the Mac might never have caught on nor Apple survived to inspire rumors of what to do with hundreds of billions of dollars of spare change lying around.
> 
> ...



---

Canon is NOT THE ONLY COMPANY that Apple is looking at!

Right now Canon is in their TOP-5 of possible Apple acquisitions and that the AMD offshoot Global Foundries MAY ALSO be on the Purchase List. Apple wants semiconductor manufacturing prowess for CPU chips, RAM memory AND CMOS Sensors!

I think a takeover of Canon is Apple's BEST BET but a gobble-up of Global Foundries would ALSO be a GREAT purchase! Whatever happens, I can tell you that Canon, Sony, Samsung, Apple, etc. are ALL going GUNG-HO for HUGE sensors on smartphones and right now only Apple, Sony and Canon have the requisite abilities to pull that off on a PURELY PROPRIETARY BASIS !!! Every other manufacturer (even Samsung!) has to buy multiple parts from elsewhere! Apple has their proprietary CPU-chips since they are trying to ditch the ARM cores for their own internal designs (they have been hiring CPU/GPU/RAM chip designers left-right-and-centre!) and a takeover of Canon would further that goal even more so!

For us here on CanonRumors, it does mean that some VERY POWERFUL camera gear, be it smartphone-based or DSLR-like mirrorless-based, is coming down the pipeline VERY SOON NOW and I believe that a FULL ARM-like 64-bit combined RISC CPU and GPU-processor stacked onto the back of a CMOS sensor is going to be way to bring 50 megapixel (8k) 16-bits per channel HDR Stills and 60 fps 4:4:4/4:2:2 H.265/HVEC/HDR Video imagery to compact photo systems INCLUDING higher end smartphones!

Apple is in on the prowl and Canon is in the Top-5 of it's internal takeover list!

REMEMBER --- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!


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## neuroanatomist (May 10, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> REMEMBER --- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!



You're wrong. I've been hearing bullshit for far longer than CanonRumors has existed.


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## HarryFilm (May 10, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > REMEMBER --- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!
> ...



===

Let me just say that a DOOOOOOOOOOZIE of an announcement is coming very soon.....and my speculations (backed up by some decent sources!) says that certain events are taking place as we speak...and that Canon has something VERY VERY VERY INTERESTING up their sleeve! 

It's not bullshit if it's revealed to be all true...........  ;-)  ;-)


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## Orangutan (May 10, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



Are you familiar with the "Texas sharpshooter fallacy?" Simply put, it's when the sharpshooter draws a bullseye around the bullet hole. This is used frequently by so-called psychics who spin their vague sludge as accurate predictions. 

You've been making vague predictions for quite a while, and you've badly missed on all of them. If you want to salvage any credibility at all, you need to provide accurate predictions of the product and the timeline. Otherwise...it's just some banal rantings that amount to nothing.

It's time to be specific: exactly what is the product you predict, and when will it be announced? Don't want to answer the question directly? Well, then it's no fun anymore, and you will have become boring, which is the worst possible thing for a story-teller.


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## unfocused (May 10, 2018)

Orangutan said:


> Are you familiar with the "Texas sharpshooter fallacy?" Simply put, it's when the sharpshooter draws a bullseye around the bullet hole. This is used frequently by so-called psychics who spin their vague sludge as accurate predictions.
> 
> You've been making vague predictions for quite a while, and you've badly missed on all of them. If you want to salvage any credibility at all, you need to provide accurate predictions of the product and the timeline. Otherwise...it's just some banal rantings that amount to nothing.
> 
> It's time to be specific: exactly what is the product you predict, and when will it be announced? Don't want to answer the question directly? Well, then it's no fun anymore, and you will have become boring, which is the worst possible thing for a story-teller.



I hadn’t heard of the sharpshooter fallacy before, but that’s a pretty good analogy. Although in Harry’s case even his vague predictions and promises don’t seem to ever materialize. Remember his big product announcement he promised would be announced a week ago. We are still waiting. 

But I do think you miss a key point. Salvaging any credibility is unimportant to Harry. He is like the Nigerian prince, he knows 99.9999% of us can see through his complete crap, but he gets some bizarre sense of satisfaction from knowing that .0001%want to believe his garbage.

He will never be specific because that would prove he’s a lying liar.


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## Orangutan (May 10, 2018)

unfocused said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Are you familiar with the "Texas sharpshooter fallacy?" Simply put, it's when the sharpshooter draws a bullseye around the bullet hole. This is used frequently by so-called psychics who spin their vague sludge as accurate predictions.
> ...


That assumes he's being nefarious. My current hypothesis is that he's a social psych professor at some prestigious university, and he's conducting research on the relative gullibility of online communities. He has aliases here, and on several other interest-oriented and politics-oriented sites. He's probably got an alias on a "second amendment" site where he's promoting insider knowledge of upcoming legislation. Hint: it's a *DOOOOOOOOOOZIE!* ;D


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## HarryFilm (May 10, 2018)

Orangutan said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



===

I SUCCESSFULY predicted the Canon EOS C700 cinema camera ITSELF since I was the one who discovered the original "C700x brochure" photos on the "Northlight Images UK" website (looks like they get a lot of Canon leaks!) where I then brought it over to the attention of North America AND I made Canon Canada/Canon USA aware of it by sending a copy of the brochure to our local Canon Corporate Representative (which THEY were shocked to see!) AND I correctly predicted that the C700/C700x would contain a GLOBAL SHUTTER which WAS IN FACT BROUGHT OUT when the C700 was introduced !!! 

This IS WHAT MY SOURCES SAY:

1) Canon is working on and TESTING a large sensor screen Android-based smartphone that has 6+ inch display with an INTERCHANGEABLE lens camera mount designed for APS-C sensors. There HAVE been sub-sets of those rumours that there is a cheaper 2/3rds inch sensor phone ALSO being developed!

2) My sources say the price point will be between $1400 to $2000 U.S. for this large camera sensor interchangeable lens smartphone! Another set of sources say a second phone that is around 5.5 to 5.7 inches is being tested with a a price point between $700 to $900 U.S. which will NOT HAVE an interchangeable lens mount BUT may be either a 2/3rds inch sensor or an APS-C sensor with a FIXED lens! The Canon smartphones have NO SPECIFIED announcement date other than an ESTIMATED timeline of sometime within 2nd to 4th quarter 2019

3) My MULTIPLE sources say that Canon is currently working on a Medium Format Camera that has 50 megapixels shooting at 25 fps BURST RATE with a 16-bits per colour channel file output at 4:4:4/4:2:2 using a JPEG-2000 file container. The camera is to have a MUCH LARGER sensor than the 1Dx Mk2 and will require much larger lenses BUT will be based on an upsized EF mount! The camera WILL ALSO HAVE DCI 4K (4096x2160 pixel) 60 fps video at 4:2:2 10 bits per colour channel INTERFAME codec downsampled from the ENTIRE sensor. The camera is said to look like an upsized Canon 1Dx Mk2! Some sort of announcement is to be made around February 2019 for this camera.

4) Canon is ONE of FIVE companies ACTIVELY BEING LOOKED AT by Apple for a complete takeover! Apple wishes to take its CPU/GPU/RAM production IN-HOUSE and MAY ALSO be looking at Global Foundries to fit the bill of obtaining semiconductor and optical systems production technology. My sources say Apple is ready to pounce ANYTIME THIS YEAR !!!

5) Apple is ALSO looking for 3D printing technology for plastics, carbon-composites, ceramics and metal printing systems which MAY be introduced as part of the workstation-level MAC-PRO refresh to take place in 2019/2020. Another source has said that MarkForged is ONE intended takeover target by Apple for such technology which MAY ALSO BE USED in the Apple Autonomous Vehicle development and production systems! I have no specific date for such an acquisition by Apple!
MY PERSONAL GUESS is sometime 3rd to 4th quarter 2018 or 1st Quarter 2019!

6) Another company possibly being looked at by APPLE in addition to Canon is GatesAir which was formerly part of the Harris Broadcast Technology Group as they provide broadcast gear for over-the-air TV signal transmission, video streaming codecs and broadcast news technology! This would be a SMART MOVE since they ALSO HAVE technology for VERY WIDE AREA INTERNET wireless communications electronics and antennae systems WHICH MEANS I THINK APPLE wants to BYPASS the Big Telcos and Cable Companies by BUILDING AND OPERATING ITS OWN FULLY WIRELESS Cable TV and 4G/5G Cell Phone System in North America and Around the World that is to be EXCLUSIVELY accessed ONLY by Apple hardware!

At $30 per month for 10 to 20 gigs WIRELESS iPhone/iPad internet access, Apple would be making on order of about $4.5 Billion U.S. in the USA ALONE! Add another $50/month for unlimited Apple TV channels and that would BE ANOTHER $7.5 Billion per month for a GROSS INCOME of $144 BILLION PER YEAR just in the USA alone -- NO WONDER Apple is said to be looking at GatesAir for their TV/Internet transmission technologies! At about $400 million to about $800 million based upon current estimates, it's a VERY CHEAP PURCHASE for Apple!


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## neuroanatomist (May 10, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> I SUCCESSFULY predicted the Canon EOS C700 cinema camera ITSELF since I was the one who discovered the original "C700x brochure" photos on the "Northlight Images UK" website



You read something on another Canon-related rumors website and posted it here, and that constitutes a 'successful prediction'? 

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.


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## HarryFilm (May 10, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > I SUCCESSFULY predicted the Canon EOS C700 cinema camera ITSELF since I was the one who discovered the original "C700x brochure" photos on the "Northlight Images UK" website
> ...



===

The "C700x Brochure" was something found quite by accident and the Northlight Images UK website was perplexed and didn't KNOW what to make of it and after reading through the document, I was quite sure it was the REAL THING from a technical point of view and I then extrapolated some KEY features (i.e. sensor size and type) which I then disclosed on various forums in North America which YES INDEED it DOES mean a successful prediction since:

a) I let North America and probably a wider Europe know about it.

b) I extrapolated based upon technical specifications I found in teh document itself that IN FACT it would eventually be a DCI 4K GLOBAL SHUTTER sensor. And when Canon DID announce the C700 camera itself...lo and behold it had a 4K DCI sensor with GLOBAL SHUTTER! I even predicted it would come with an INTERCHANGEABLE PL and EF mount.

Northlight Images UK is NOT REALLY a rumours site! I personally think the sysop (System Operator) really did not quite know how to interpret or do anything with the information that was posted on his site. 

ME! Having some quite long history with Cinema Camera systems DEFINITELY HAVE THE BACKGROUND to interpret and evaluate the technical data mentioned in the specifications portion of the "brochure". I then found information that would be of interest to the general Canon Rumours community and then decided to espouse some personal opinions and extrapolate some technical specifications which were LATER FOUND TO BE CORRECT !!!

Ergo...I have some SUCCESSFUL PREDICTIONS !!!

---

AS OF NOW! The rumour mill IS HOT AS MOLTEN LAVA !!!!

My multiple European engineering sources all seem to have THE SAME STORIES!

a) A Canon high burst rate (25 fps) Medium Format JPEG-2000 50 megapixel very large sensor stills camera is on the way to be announced around February 2019!

b) A Canon Android Smartphone with LARGE APS-C sensor with INTERCHANGEABLE LENS and a smaller Android smartphone with a 2/3rds inch or APS-C sensor and fixed lens is on the way! No HARD timeline for that though but estimated at late 2019!

c) Apple is taking a HARD LOOK at Canon for an outright purchase! Maybe even within the next 90 to 180 days!

d) Apple wants to take CPU/GPU/RAM/Sensor production FULLY IN-HOUSE and may want to operate their own Cable TV and 4G/5G cell phone system for Apple Hardware ONLY and create/sell 3D printing systems for their upcoming workstation-class products! MarkForged, GatesAir, Global Foundries and Canon SEEM to be the corporate takeover targets for Apple to fulfill those goals!

THOSE ARE MY PREDICTIONS !!!!!

Am I Right? We Shall See...........

REMEMBER !!! --- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## scyrene (May 10, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



Thanks for the info!


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## fullstop (May 10, 2018)

1.) MOLTEN LAVA HOT prediction for "sometime 2019":
a MONSTER LARGE SENSOR smartphone with 41 MEGA-Pixels, Carl ZEISS all-aspherical f/2.2 lens, Xenon flash, AMOLED display and mobile phone OS! Nothing else comes close!

July 11, 2013: Stephen Elop presents the Nokia Lumia 1020. 1/1.5" sensor (= very similar size to 2/3"). In store since September 2013. https://dpreview.com/articles/6384275680/nokia-lumia-1020-preview

Harry, YOU READ IT HERE FIRST! Now let's do the TIME WARP again! ;D


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## scyrene (May 10, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> "....A jumble of mixed-up nonsense from someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Or, even what 3D printers do...."
> 
> That is a comment going to a guy who has access to THREE HAAS 5-axis CNC machines AND about TWENTY of the Stratasys 3D fused deposition printers AND a few German-made electron-beam titanium metal powder fusion 3D print machines used to make turbojet, scramjet and rocket motor parts.....AND.... to a guy who has a fully-functional 70,000 lbs of thrust custom 3D metal-printed Turbojet sitting in the company warehouse!



You do understand that an assertion does not count as evidence? Your claim to have these things does not carry any weight, especially given how unreliable your previous claims have been.


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## fullstop (May 10, 2018)

2.) My SECRET OCTAGENARIAN SOURCES in the Canon BOARD ROOM are telling me, Canon might launch an APS-C sensored "Smartphone-cam" with mount for interchangeable lenses soon! This INNOVATIVE FEAST would be accomplished simply by sticking a chinese 4G mobile comm module running under Android into any small Canon EOS body. It may well be called EOS M50 Mk II. But my engineering sources say "innovative Canon" will only be able to launch it "sometime in 2019"! 

Harry, YOU HEAR IT HERE FIRST!!!!! fresh from the horses' mouth!


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## criscokkat (May 10, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> (snipped this all out)



The preceding post really needs a "#4 WILL SHOCK YOU" header above it.


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## HarryFilm (May 10, 2018)

scyrene said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > "....A jumble of mixed-up nonsense from someone who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Or, even what 3D printers do...."
> ...



---

My claims CANNOT be deemed reliable because timewise they have simply NOT been borne out yet! In February 2019, we shall see what Canon brings out! At Photokina, we shall see what Canon Announces (if anything!). Anytime within the next 180 days Apple is buying one or more companies...WHICH SMALL OR LARGE ONE WILL IT BE?
When is the Canon Smartphone coming out? I don't know! ...BUT...I am guessing it's PROBABLY within 18 months! 

---

The ONLY Claim that has been borne out is the data I presented here about the Canon Global Shutter on a 4K Cinema Camera with an Interchangeable EF/PL mount (i.e. C700) THAT'S IT! ( I should note though, that ANY person with experience in Cinema Camera systems SHOULD HAVE been able to predict that!) The DOOOOOZIE announcement coming soon is something on a different subject matter which is rather substantial for the Canon Rumours community and it will be presented here enough..........

---

I will say one thing....in that Canon is going to make a play into large sensor professional photo systems and smartphones very soon now! At Photokina, I highly DOUBT they will actually introduce anything other than mere camera software updates ...BUT... I do suspect that Canon execs will make a discreet Plans-for-Next-Year announcement for the MF and Smartphone systems to stave off and/or reduce the effects of any direct Sony announcements on that market.


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## HarryFilm (May 10, 2018)

scyrene said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Here are the FACTUAL NUMBERS for 2005 in terms of Market Capitalization for Canon and Apple:

$48 Billion US for Canon July 3, 2005 and 49.8 Billion November 2005 for Apple

Apple was the LARGER Company market-wise in 2005 by small amount!

so YES Apple COULD HAVE TAKEN OVER all of Canon by using Goldman Sachs as the Mergers and Acquisitions financiers and YES Steve Jobs DID IN FACT mention buying Canon in 2005 !!!

I suspect today that Morgan Stanley would be the preferred M&A firm that Apple would use for taking over Canon with Goldman Sachs the 2nd choice. Again, rumours are that Apple has FIVE companies it is looking at for outright purchase/takeover...I SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW YET which one they will choose other than that 90 days to 180 days is one time period being bandied about in my engineering forum circles!


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## Mikehit (May 10, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Anytime within the next 180 days Apple is buying one or more companies...WHICH SMALL OR LARGE ONE WILL IT BE?



I would say that is an absolute certainty.
You really are the Oracle of Delphi aren't you.


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## scyrene (May 11, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



I meant specifically your claims to own all those 3D printers. Obviously all your predictions and pronouncements are just silly - I don't even read them thoroughly, because your writing style gives me a headache.


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## Hector1970 (May 11, 2018)

Hi Harryfilm
Would you perhaps predict the Euromillions Lotto ticket numbers for 8pm tonight?
You seem to have a great insight into the future.
I could do with the money to buy more Canon gear.


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## HarryFilm (May 11, 2018)

scyrene said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



===

I don't own the CNC gear! My friend's company (which he owns in its entirety) does!
I merely have off-the-clock access to almost all of it due to me doing computer and high end cinema related "consulting work" in exchange for Steak and Beer dinners and access to some TOTALLY SWEEEEEET CNC/3D printing gear which is WHY there is a 70,000 lbs of thrust 3D printed Titanium and Cobalt-Steel TurboJet sitting in his warehouse! I have to pay for the materials, but the printing is done by me off-hours! Ya Can't beat that price. (i.e. almost free!) The company I work for ALSO has sweet gear which I have to sign out and pay for insurance for...BUT...I still have lots of off-hours access to it!

Again, ya can't beat the price! The current company who saw what I was doing with the Canon 444/422 codec was INFURIATED at my actions which ticked them off to no end (aka thrown chairs, broken coffee mugs, etc), so we went underground after a VERY heated discussion and will soon introduce something -B-I-G- and hopefully in the next few weeks, I will go from 12 year old beater sedan to Bell 429 as my daily driver!

And in terms of your headaches, may I suggest good swill or three of German Brandy (Asbach Uralt specifically) so that you may recover from swoooning at my Cultural Learnings of CanonRumors for make benefit Beatific and Bestest Nation EVER of HarryFilm!


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## HarryFilm (May 11, 2018)

Anyways, to the most glorious nation of CanonRumors, it looks like my European engineering sources SEEM to have paid off again in that a 2018 Photokina announcement seems to on the agenda for Canon for an XC-15 look-a-like with an INTERCHANGEABLE LENS and an enhanced ONE INCH 5.9K sensor (i.e. with almost the same resolution as new iteration of C700 camera) that IS basically an electronic shutter (aka mirrorless!) video camera and stills system WITH an end-user-purchaseable adapter for Full Frame EF lenses. The video will be cropped-from-middle-of-sensor 4K DCI (4096x2160)...BUT... the stills will be VERY NICE 5.9k quality!

I am still confused by what MOUNT is being put on the camera as it SEEMS it is an EF-S mount but with a 1 inch sensor. WTF? Price will be "Competitive" and WILL feature 4:2:2 10 bit interframe 60 fps video codec AND EITHER the 4:4:4/4:2:2 JPEG-2000 OR the New High Efficiency Still Image codec being bandied about by the MPEG-LA group. My sources still have some confusion as to which Still Image codec is being put on the camera!

This product was told to me as being a combination of 7D mk2 and XF-405 camcorder
BUT with interchangeable lens!

AGAIN, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!


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## privatebydesign (May 11, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Anyways, to the most glorious nation of CanonRumors, it looks like my European engineering sources SEEM to have paid off again in that a 2018 Photokina announcement seems to on the agenda for Canon for a XC-15 look-a-like with an INTERCHANGEABLE LENS and an enhanced ONE INCH 5.9K sensor (i.e. with almost the same resolution as new iteration of C700 camera) that IS basically an electronic shutter (aka mirrorless!) video camera and stills system WITH an end-user-purchaseable adapter for Full Frame EF lenses. The video will be cropped-from-middle-of-sensor 4K DCI (4096x2160)...BUT... the stills will be VERY NICE 5.9k quality!
> 
> I am still confused by what MOUNT is being put on the camera as it SEEMS it is an EF-S mount but with a 1 inch sensor. WTF? Price will be "Competitive" and WILL feature 4:2:2 10 bit interframe 60 fps video codec AND EITHER the 4:4:4/4:2:2 JPEG-2000 OR the New High Efficiency Still Image codec being bandied about by the MPEG-LA group. My sources still have some confusion as to which Still Image codec is being put on the camera!
> 
> ...



Or, we read it here ( https://www.eoshd.com/2018/04/canons-rival-to-the-gh5-leaks/ ) 3 weeks ago...


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## HarryFilm (May 11, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> Hi Harryfilm
> Would you perhaps predict the Euromillions Lotto ticket numbers for 8pm tonight?
> You seem to have a great insight into the future.
> I could do with the money to buy more Canon gear.



The winning Euromillion numbers in my delirious mind are:

06 07 09 23 48 and the Lucky Stars are 01 08

Good Luck AND May The Force be With You -- ALWAYS!


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## HarryFilm (May 12, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > Anyways, to the most glorious nation of CanonRumors, it looks like my European engineering sources SEEM to have paid off again in that a 2018 Photokina announcement seems to on the agenda for Canon for a XC-15 look-a-like with an INTERCHANGEABLE LENS and an enhanced ONE INCH 5.9K sensor (i.e. with almost the same resolution as new iteration of C700 camera) that IS basically an electronic shutter (aka mirrorless!) video camera and stills system WITH an end-user-purchaseable adapter for Full Frame EF lenses. The video will be cropped-from-middle-of-sensor 4K DCI (4096x2160)...BUT... the stills will be VERY NICE 5.9k quality!
> ...



---

NOPE! I haven't seen that leak BUT it DOES SEEM from my sources that it will STAY as a ONE INCH SENSOR (i.e. Super-16 size) ....BUT...with 5.9K (6062 x 3432 pixel) 20.8 megapixels STILL PHOTO resolution and DCI 4K 4096x2160 pixel cropped 60 fps 4:2:2 10 bits per colour channel VIDEO resolution.

I don't mind that it is to be a one inch sensor since It is STILL better than most smartphones in resolution AND has a mount for an interchangeable lens. Most of my sources say an EF-S mount which is designed for APS-C sensors which means it WILL take Full Frame lenses very nicely with a decent FULL FUNCTION adapter!

In my opinion this is an upgraded Canon version of the Panasonic G5 series BUT with better ergonomics! That will sway A LOT OF ENTHUSIASTS over to that form factor since 18.6 megapixels is nothing to laugh at especially since I heard the burst rate mode at full stills resolution will be 10+ fps and maybe even 12 fps!

Price point wise it will PROBABLY be around $2200 to $2400 US which is Cheaper than the current XC-15 and intrudes upon 7D/6D/M5 capabilities and price points! Finally Canon is going to start bring out the Big Guns competitor to the G5 via an ergonomic form factor for the enthusiast and student filmmaker and semi-pro stills market!


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## neuroanatomist (May 12, 2018)

I'm reminded of the adage stating that if you throw enough crap onto the wall, some is bound to stick.


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## Ozarker (May 12, 2018)

Harryfilm aka fullstop aka AVTVM... His real name is Chaz and when he's not crashing weddings and funerals he trolls this website.


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## HarryFilm (May 12, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Harrflim aka fullstop aka AVTVM... His real name is Chaz and when he's not crashing weddings and funerals he trolls this website.



---

NOPE! I'm in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada and many people know me by another name but it AIN'T FULLSTOP, AVTVM OR CHAZ!!!! I have an advanced degree from the University of Southwest British Columbia (Honours) in the specialty "Faeces Tauri Vomito"

And I am DAMN GOOD AT THAT SPECIALTY --- Everything else is real and true!


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## Ozarker (May 12, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Harrflim aka fullstop aka AVTVM... His real name is Chaz and when he's not crashing weddings and funerals he trolls this website.
> ...



Greenland denied him unemployment compensation. Something about trolling from his momma's basement keeping him from seeking gainful employment.


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## fentiger (May 12, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Harrflim aka fullstop aka AVTVM... His real name is Chaz and when he's not crashing weddings and funerals he trolls this website.
> ...




Always wanted to know if there was a real Expert on the subject of Bull Shit. Thank you Harry Film.
take it was a upper first class honours?


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## neuroanatomist (May 12, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> fentiger said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



USBC. Uber Smelly Bull Crap.


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## Orangutan (May 12, 2018)

Would you open a comic book and expect to find peer-reviewed scientific literature?


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## ethanz (May 12, 2018)

You guys love feeding him don't you? Does that make you just as bad? lol

I actually do think he lives or has lived near or in BC.


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## HarryFilm (May 13, 2018)

ethanz said:


> You guys love feeding him don't you? Does that make you just as bad? lol
> 
> I actually do think he lives or has lived near or in BC.



===

SERIOUSLY! I actual DO LIVE in Vancouver! Today, at Belcarra Regional Park it was like 18 Celcius in the Afternoon and NOT A CLOUD in the sky. The parking lots were full and the picnic area packed with families AND it was warm enough that I had a dip in the ocean! Afterwards, I took some time to craft some beefy retorts to the question of my ability to disgorge Faeces Tauri Vomito -- which LITERALLY means Crap of Bull being Vomited ...or... colloquially Bull_Sh_t.

Actually, THERE IS a University of Southwestern British Columbia --- AND it's motto is

"Sit Qui Perulae Inter Faeces Petit Benedicta"

I just happen to OWN that institution in its entirety....

AND one of it's graduates (i.e. ME!) says that certain Canon personnel from certain departments have CONFIRMED that Photokina is where an XC-15-look-alike video-centric camera with a mount allowing for interchangeable lenses WILL be announced but not necessarily introduced publicly for viewing! These parties I have access to have CONFIRMED it will be a one inch sensor (Super-16 size) and WILL HAVE a still image resolution of about 6k by 3.5k pixels and WILL HAVE 4:2:2 10-bit 60 fps DCI 4096x2160 interframe video.Those three features (one inch sensor, 6k x 3.5k resolution and 10-bit 422 60 fps video) ARE NOW CONFIRMED by those VERY WELL PLACED sources!

AND AGAIN, the price is said to be around $2200 to $2400 US !!!


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## Talys (May 13, 2018)

ethanz said:


> You guys love feeding him don't you? Does that make you just as bad? lol
> 
> I actually do think he lives or has lived near or in BC.



It's actually why I stopped responding to Harry's bizarre posts. The ridiculous smartphone with the EFS mount was the final straw for me, lol. 

I hope that he's not a British Columbian, because he'd be single-handedly spiking the loon factor for the province.


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## ethanz (May 13, 2018)

Talys said:


> spiking the loon factor for the province.



Canadians already have a loon factor to them... 

;D


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## HarryFilm (May 14, 2018)

Talys said:


> ethanz said:
> 
> 
> > You guys love feeding him don't you? Does that make you just as bad? lol
> ...




====


The loon factor starts coming out when one gets to spend a day on the beach, SCUBA diving, sailing, swimming etc. AND STILL think about what to write on Canon Rumors.

AND to PROVE ya don't need a $10,000 Camera to take decent photos, take a gander at this JPEG format panoramic view taken by a simple SMARTPHONE (of Belcarra Park near Vancouver taken May 12, 2018) which is WHY Canon is sooooooo WORRRIED about it's point-and-shoot business and is NOW CONFIRMED by my European electrical ENGINEERING sources to be testing a real-world prototype of an Android Smartphone with a LARGE SIZE CANON SENSOR and interchangeable lens capability!

If an Asus Zenfone-2 or Sony Experia-2, which are MID-RANGE phones, can do these types of wide panoramic or normal still imagery on their own with only mild contrast enhancement editing using their own apps....then CANON RIGHTFULLY NEEDS TO BE WORRIED SICK TO ITS STOMACH!


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## cellomaster27 (May 14, 2018)

Ahhh... I really really don't want to take my 5D3 all over Asia in September/October. I would much rather take a capable mirrorless camera that works with my lenses that isn't Sony but full frame. Too much to wish for?  Please hurry up!


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## fullstop (May 14, 2018)

putting an Android-based mobile comm chip into an EOS-M body is certainly not impossible. however, for all practical purposes (size!) it would not qualify as "APS-C sensored smartphone with interchangable lenses" but rather as "Canon EOS MILC with mobile comm capabilities". Not very innovative and not really needed any longer now, as bluetooth/NFC are viable now to transfer images from camera to smartphone -> to social media platforms.

Samsung Galaxy camera (compact cam with mobile comm, Android, but small sensor and no lens mount) has pioneered the concept with inbuilt android/comm module in 2013 already, without success in market.


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## Ozarker (May 14, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Would you open a comic book and expect to find peer-reviewed scientific literature?
> ...



Time to run to my safe place. You've opened an old wound. Sea Monkeys were the biggest disappointment of my childhood. No castles, no tridents, and no smiles. Spent some hard earned newspaper delivery money on that con. Somebody ought to have been arrested. Just green water and learning what brine shrimp is. :'(

I won't admit to the perversion of ordering x-ray glasses, but they were a con too. Even bigger disappointment. #metoo


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## Ozarker (May 14, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > ethanz said:
> ...



Sorry, Harry. Nothing about those photos should have Canon worried. Nothing. Run along now. Your momma is calling you.


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## HarryFilm (May 14, 2018)

fullstop said:


> putting an Android-based mobile comm chip into an EOS-M body is certainly not impossible. however, for all practical purposes (size!) it would not qualify as "APS-C sensored smartphone with interchangable lenses" but rather as "Canon EOS MILC with mobile comm capabilities". Not very innovative and not really needed any longer now, as bluetooth/NFC are viable now to transfer images from camera to smartphone -> to social media platforms.
> 
> Samsung Galaxy camera (compact cam with mobile comm, Android, but small sensor and no lens mount) has pioneered the concept with inbuilt android/comm module in 2013 already, without success in market.



===

When the photos NOTED BELOW came to my attention, I KNEW the first one with the front sensor WAS REAL because of MY OTHER sources who had described it in exactly the manner shown below multiple times on multiple online groups.

the SECOND photo is "purported" to be a 3D PRINTED DESIGN MOCKUP intended to research physical placement and size of controls. It "Kinda Looks Fake To Me" but for now I will assume it is a "Design Mockup"

I will stress this over and over....the rumour mill IS BOILING HOT in the engineering circles I look into. These are people IN DESIGN and MANUFACTURING who have knowledge on parts and purchases. I don't know them or their real names BUT MANY seem to be saying nearly the same stories.

At least ONE of those stories is said that an Android OS Canon Smartphone with a BIG Sensor and a lens mount that is in real-world TESTING!


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## HarryFilm (May 14, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > Talys said:
> ...



===

Take those smartphone photos and COMPARE them against your 5D Mark 3 photos and I would say from a CONSUMER point of view they are WAAAAAAAAY GOOD ENOUGH FOR PERSONAL USE, especially when you tell a consumer the ORIGINAL PRICE of your 5D mk3!

Blackberry died on the vine due to corporate arrogance. Canon has been getting DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to that same level of corporate arrogance as Blackberry BUT it seems that may have caught a bit of religion and seen the light! Getting a large Canon sensor sensor on a smartphone out to market is a GOOD PLAN in my view. The Sony Experia and Asus ZenFone are MID-range phones and what you can get out of them today with some BASIC ON-PHONE contrast enhancement and simple cropping boggles the mind! Imagine what an APS-C sensor can do on a high powered smartphone with a Qualcomm Dragon 845 on it can do to Camera IQ !!!! Can you say WINNER by a Mile?!


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## fullstop (May 14, 2018)

sorry to disappoint you Harry, but first image is [also] clearly fake. Just one quick glance reveals your ENGINEERING FRIENDS are playing PRANKS on you. ;D

Explanation: a SQUARE white dot as lens mount mark is used by Canon on cameras with EF-S lens mount. EF-S like EF has a flange focal distance of 44.0 mm = way thicker than any "camera smartphone", including the fake one in the posted image. 

If it were Canon EF-M mount, it would be marked with a ROUND white dot ... even then it would still be 18mm FFD, which would make for a MIGHTY FAT "camera smartphone"-body. Smallest form factor we have seen so far for EF-M so far was EOS M2 [back in 2013; HxWxD 104.9 × 65.2 × 31.6 mm] ... which is about the smallest form factor Canon [or anyone else] could possibly use for an "APS-C sensored camera-phone" with interchangeable lens mount ... ;-)

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0304760491/canon-announces-eos-m2-in-japan


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## zim (May 14, 2018)

fullstop said:


> sorry to disappoint you Harry, but first image is [also] clearly fake. Just one quick glance reveals your ENGINEERING FRIENDS are playing PRANKS on you. ;D
> 
> Explanation: a SQUARE white dot as lens mount mark is used by Canon on cameras with EF-S lens mount. EF-S like EF has a flange focal distance of 44.0 mm = way thicker than any "camera smartphone", including the fake one in the posted image.
> 
> ...



You do understand that there is a hole in the carpet and that sensor is deep in it


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## fullstop (May 14, 2018)

zim said:


> You do understand that there is a hole in the carpet and that sensor is deep in it



;D ;D ;D


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## fullstop (May 14, 2018)

SENSATION! Just managed to hack into Canon product development server and found some BOILING HOT secret product images! "P5", oh YES! Harry got it spot on! *Canon P5-D* !!!! 100% NO FAKE!!!! 







... innovative Canon! 1973 8) ;D


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## scyrene (May 14, 2018)

fullstop said:


> sorry to disappoint you Harry, but first image is [also] clearly fake. Just one quick glance reveals your ENGINEERING FRIENDS are playing PRANKS on you. ;D
> 
> Explanation: a SQUARE white dot as lens mount mark is used by Canon on cameras with EF-S lens mount. EF-S like EF has a flange focal distance of 44.0 mm = way thicker than any "camera smartphone", including the fake one in the posted image.
> 
> ...



Also, as was touched on in the thread where he posted these photos a while back, the mount is clearly pasted on from a different image - the sharpness and lighting/shadows don't match the rest of the image, for one thing.


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## Talys (May 14, 2018)

zim said:


> fullstop said:
> 
> 
> > sorry to disappoint you Harry, but first image is [also] clearly fake. Just one quick glance reveals your ENGINEERING FRIENDS are playing PRANKS on you. ;D
> ...



Your camera can be as thin as you want as long as it's permanently fixed to a recessed... floor!

At least it will not have any stability issues, earthquakes and Godzilla aside.


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## HarryFilm (May 14, 2018)

fullstop said:


> sorry to disappoint you Harry, but first image is [also] clearly fake. Just one quick glance reveals your ENGINEERING FRIENDS are playing PRANKS on you. ;D
> 
> Explanation: a SQUARE white dot as lens mount mark is used by Canon on cameras with EF-S lens mount. EF-S like EF has a flange focal distance of 44.0 mm = way thicker than any "camera smartphone", including the fake one in the posted image.
> 
> ...



===

I am not familiar with how Canon marks its mounts BUT i did note at one point that the Canon smartphone was purported to be about 26 mm thick which on a technical basis would be what an EF-M mount needs for focus plane needs rather than the EF-S mount which you have CORRECTLY stated being 44mm as to what would be needed WITHOUT any extender tubes.

I suggest to you however, that I think due to recent Canon patents SOME SORT of interchangeable lens/extension tube technology is being contemplated. I do say that the SECOND PHOTO to me looks "Rather Fake" .... BUT .... the first photo DOES SEEM rather more real than the other, So I am going to give it more "weight". I did a Google and Baidu search engine check on the body itself and I have found NOTHING with that shape or look! Light meters, audio recorders, portable game systems, Chinese/Asian/Euro smartphones, kitchen gadgets, electrical and tradesmen measuring tools, etc.

I have found NOTHING that fits the profile of the first photo. I think it's a real object sitting on a very real carpet and the IMAGE NOISE does match on BOTH the lens mount and body so it was TAKEN with a camera. I disagree with others about the lighting and sharpness not matching the lens mount as it actually does when a lighting source from the camera flash AND a second source is taken into account. It is the MATCHING Image Noise across the entire photo that helps me in my opinion as to its authenticity.

---

Canon DEFINITELY NEEDS to be wary of phones that can do the below photos!

I PERSONALLY recommend the newest Sony xPeria 4K Premium phones AND the Asus ZenFone-2 and above which have FANTASTIC cameras! Again, smartphones are WINNING the camera war and Canon better introduce what they have in terms of large sensor smartphone PRETTY QUICKLY!

It wasn't a perfect auto-stitch for the photos but it SURE WAS GOOD ENOUGH for family members to send to at various times! Smartphones with BIG SENSORS and High IQ CPU processors (i.e. Qualcomm SnapDragon 845) is where it is NOW AT for still photos!


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## HarryFilm (May 15, 2018)

As an additional PHOTO EXAMPLE-based comment, CAN YOU SAY that a smartphone CANNOT make decent photos that are good enough for web or even print?

These old mid-range Sony xPeria Z2 and older Sony xPeria phones took the photos below. Even WITH it's middle-of-road IQ, the Sony phones took DECENT photos! I say that Canon has a LOT to worry about and if they want to compete, so that LARGE SENSOR CANON SMARTPHONE had better be coming soon! -- Preferably at this year's Photokina!


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## fullstop (May 15, 2018)

image #1 is definitely FAKE and a SLOPPY piece of work at that.

Aside from visual appearance of "shopped in lens mount" and in addition to WRONG white lens mount mark - SQUARE instead of round (EF-S instead of EF-M) - there is at least one more TELLTALE SIGN giving away a not very talented or diligent photoshop faker: LENS RELEASE BUTTON is MISSING. ;D

So, while one might be able to mount a Canon [EF-S] lens on that FAKE carpet-crawling EOS device depicted in FAKE image #1, one would never ever be able to REMOVE the lens again ... Faker simply FORGOT to shop in the little release button. Oh well, SH*T HAPPENS. ;D

As far as "UNIQUE SHAPE" of the FAKE "EOS smartphone body" goes, it seems to be photoshopped using one of many existing Canon Powershot Ixus models. 

Sorry Harry but pulling off credible PRANKS in this forum takes quite a bit more effort, thought and skill.


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## neuroanatomist (May 15, 2018)

fullstop said:


> image #1 is definitely FAKE and a SLOPPY piece of work at that.
> 
> Aside from visual appearance of "shopped in lens mount" and in addition to WRONG white lens mount mark - SQUARE instead of round (EF-S instead of EF-M) - there is at least one more TELLTALE SIGN giving away a not very talented or diligent photoshop faker: LENS RELEASE BUTTON is MISSING. ;D
> 
> So, while one might be able to mount a Canon [EF-S] lens on that FAKE carpet-crawling EOS device depicted in FAKE image #1, one would never ever be able to REMOVE the lens again ... Faker simply FORGOT to shop in the little release button. Oh well, SH*T HAPPENS. ;D



Nice try at a debunk, but clearly the lens release function is electronic and voice-activated. That's why he has the pic of the prototype and how he knows it's REAL. It was Stupid Canon that forgot to build in a lens release button, so they were forced to contact Harry – the electronic lens release code was so complex to write that Canon had to have him do it, no one else in the world has enough coding skill.


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## 3kramd5 (May 15, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> My claims CANNOT be deemed reliable because timewise they have simply NOT been borne out yet!



Reliability prediction is based in statistics. Statistically, your predictions are unreliable. Your purported ability to look at a brochure does not qualify as prediction.



HarryFilm said:


> I don't own the CNC gear! My friend's company (which he owns in its entirety) does!
> I merely have off-the-clock access to almost all of it due to me doing computer and high end cinema related "consulting work"



This is in addition to your jobs designing engines for greater than light speed travel, and building dataservers for the purposes of DNA editing? Man, I must be lazy.

Seriously, though, do you have a blog or an actual/legitimate/real gig as a writer? The volume of words you generate is impressive, even if they signify nothing.


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## HarryFilm (May 15, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > My claims CANNOT be deemed reliable because timewise they have simply NOT been borne out yet!
> ...




===

Signifying Nothing? I strut and fret about soooo many multiple hours upon MY stage!

And its entertainment value most definitely makes you look again and again like the train wreck you ALL are so eager to see....BUT I SHALL BE VINDICATED by Canon's very soon introduction of its Medium Format Very Large Sensor stills/video camera AND a new Canon big sensor smartphone....


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## HarryFilm (May 15, 2018)

fullstop said:


> image #1 is definitely FAKE and a SLOPPY piece of work at that.
> 
> Aside from visual appearance of "shopped in lens mount" and in addition to WRONG white lens mount mark - SQUARE instead of round (EF-S instead of EF-M) - there is at least one more TELLTALE SIGN giving away a not very talented or diligent photoshop faker: LENS RELEASE BUTTON is MISSING. ;D
> 
> ...



==

Don't blame ME for the missing lens release button you don't see...I should note that I did say the first photo LOOKS MORE REAL to me! The second photo has ALWAYS looked more "Fake" to me. I can't explain it but something is "BADLY OFF" about that second image. It's hard to tell on that first photo BUT if it IS as fake as you say it is, I am very curious as to WHY someone is taking the time (i.e. it actually takes some SIGNIFICANT TIME to fake photos!) to even BOTHER send images to me like that?

a) What is the end game OTHER than simple LOLs?

b) Is this actually CANON originated material (are they trying to do a deliberate diversionary tactic?)

c) If it IS Canon, are they trying to cover up and/or FIND internal leakers?

d) If THEY ARE DOING THIS, does that mean something BIG is coming down the pipeline that Canon is going to such lengths to cover up that they even BOTHER making such fake photos?


===

Anyways, getting BACK to the original subject matter, if this is NOT just done for LOLs and they (i.e. Canon!) IS doing all this on purpose, what are they TRYING to hide? 

Is this a deliberate sort of underground marketing to give a scare to Sony and make current Canon customers hold off on Sony purchases so that they have enough time to finish whatever they are finishing in the Smartphone sphere of products?

My predictions TEND to be NEAR the mark but that is based upon EDUCATED GUESSES after looking intensely at product brochures, current marketing materials and patent applications. Ergo, this means in my opinion that a current effort at making a COMBINED smartphone and Mirrorless large sensor camera is LIKELY already in the testing phase and I personally believe that Canon will make a definitive statement about a Smartphone AT this year's Photokina!

===

So again, if I can take photos like the above using a SIMPLE mid-range smartphone, don't you think it would be a good idea for Canon to come out with a better performing product with a BIGGER sensor? I would if I was the Canon CEO! 

I would bring out a HUGE 4K screen (6 inches+) with Lots of System RAM (16 gigabytes) and Lots of on Flash Storage (i.e. 256 gigabytes), powerful CPU (i.e. Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 at least!) and a BIG sensor (i.e. at least 2/3rd inch or even better an APS-C) sensor with a mount that allows INTERCHANGE of Lenses that takes an adapter/extender tube for the Canon L-series FF lenses! And it BETETR have 422 10 bits-per-channel 60 fps DCI 4k (4096x2160) interframe HVEC/H.265 video going at a user-selectable 75 to 300 megabits per second! AND I want my GPS coordinates, elevation and heading data being updated and saved into the output file either every frame or at least every GROUP OF FRAMES (GOP)!


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## 3kramd5 (May 15, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Signifying Nothing? I strut and fret about soooo many multiple hours upon MY stage!
> 
> And its entertainment value most definitely makes you look again and again like the train wreck you ALL are so eager to see.



Indeed, I do come here for entertainment, so I will look for your posts tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow.



HarryFilm said:


> Is this a deliberate sort of underground marketing to give a scare to Sony and make current Canon customers hold off on Sony purchases



I certainly believe canon has more regard for its customers than to think a sensor composited onto a blob of bondo will in any way inform purchasing decisions.


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## jolyonralph (Jul 25, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'm wondering about that patent we saw for a light field camera last week. It was called out as being a quad pixel patent, but it was actually a light field camera.
> 
> That would certainly qualify as something totally new, no one has made a light field camera using dual or quad pixels.



That's because you need a lot more than 4 pixels per 'ray' to get any meaningful light field effect. The Lytro system had a ratio of around 100 pixel elements per ray. So a 40megapixel sensor gave an 0.4 megapixel 'light ray' image.


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## Phil Indeblanc (Aug 9, 2018)

If Sigma is going to sit around on the Fovion, they may as well sell it to Canon so they can expand its tech and give it a true 40+ mpixel, and shove that in the 5DmV.
Get rid of the AA limits and color. R&D the DR and bam! you have a new flagship....Oh...You will need a removable wireless EVF that converts to a eye piece like a monocle. When that is in place, we can add the revolver style lens barrel mount for 3 lenses that work like a microscope.....Then you have a REAL camera that all citizens of earth would have. Then the phrase " If you buy a camera, you are a photographer..." would be in full saturation.


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