# Latest in the Grey Market Wars



## unfocused (Oct 18, 2016)

Several sites are reporting the latest news regarding the ongoing anti-grey market efforts. Fuji has apparently joined the fight and Canon has reached a settlement with one grey market seller that sounds like it could mean an end to their selling grey market bodies.

I've noticed lately that sites like Canon Price Watch have been offering products with USA/Canada warranties as "street price" specials for less than grey market and have also noticed that authorized dealers have been using "open box" sales to get around MAP pricing, to match or undercut grey market prices. 

I've thought all along that the real strategy here was to force the grey market retailers to settle. It will be interesting to see if some of the larger grey market dealers end up joining the authorized dealer network. Alternatively, they may buy from authorized dealers at a discount and sell US/Canada warranty products as an unauthorized dealer. (CPW has a good explanation http://www.canonpricewatch.com/blog/authorized-unauthorized-dealers-and-grey-market-explained/#usmodel .)

Read some of the recent stories.

http://photorumors.com/2016/10/14/fuji-files-a-lawsuit-against-grey-market-sellers-at-the-same-time-canon-dismissed-their-case-against-grey-market-seller-get-it-digital/

http://www.worldipreview.com/news/fujifilm-takes-aim-at-importers-in-grey-goods-action-12394

http://www.photographybay.com/2016/10/10/canon-usa-v-get-it-digital-case-dismissed/ (This headline is deceptive. Read the full story. It was "dismissed" because they reached a settlement and Canon withdrew the suit.

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2016/10/13/fujifilm-goes-grey-market-importers-retailers/#.WAWQMclj14-


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## MrFotoFool (Oct 20, 2016)

I am very curious what Adorama's "open box" means. It says it comes with a one year Canon USA warranty, but that could not be true for a direct import (gray market) item, right?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 20, 2016)

MrFotoFool said:


> I am very curious what Adorama's "open box" means. It says it comes with a one year Canon USA warranty, but that could not be true for a direct import (gray market) item, right?



It's a way for Adorama to get around MAP. as stated by the OP.

As for grey market warranties, you're generally covered by Canon as their warranty is pretty much global. I've never seen or heard of anyone being denied warranty service for a Canon "grey market" camera or lens. The same can't be said for other manufacturers.


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## tchen4 (Oct 20, 2016)

MrFotoFool said:


> I am very curious what Adorama's "open box" means. It says it comes with a one year Canon USA warranty, but that could not be true for a direct import (gray market) item, right?



Adorama's relation to Canon is quite different from other Grey sellers'. As one of the major authorized dealer, Canon won't do anything about the "open box" sales. I believe Canon also know some other authorized dealers get around the MAP via some "broker" but decides to live with it, or maybe just communicates privately.


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## mitchel2002 (Oct 20, 2016)

wah no more cheap stuff on ebay


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## unfocused (Oct 20, 2016)

mitchel2002 said:


> wah no more cheap stuff on ebay



Too early to know that.

The market will always set the price.

Authorized dealers will continue to find ways around MAP (such as "open box" sales) as long as the MAP price is higher than the market believes it should be.

Authorized dealers will continue to sell in bulk to unauthorized dealers, who will then offer the items at a discount. (Honestly, I've never understood why dealers do this, but they do.)

Sellers will continue to break kits apart and offer "white box" deals if the combination price is cheaper than the separate price.

Overseas dealers will continue to sell products directly to the U.S. and European markets. 

Dealers will continue to "bundle" products, offering package deals that are eligible for special rebates and have a combination price that is below the MAP price for individual products.

Finally, we don't know what the terms of agreements between manufacturers and grey market sellers are, so we can't be certain how it will affect grey market sellers.

My view, which I know many others do not share, is that grey market prices are not that much lower (in the U.S.) than authorized dealer prices, if you watch the sales and shop shrewdly. To me, the slight premium for U.S. warranty products is well worth the small extra cost. (But then, again, most of my lenses have been bought from the Canon refurbished store).


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## Luds34 (Oct 20, 2016)

unfocused said:


> My view, which I know many others do not share, is that grey market prices are not that much lower (in the U.S.) than authorized dealer prices, if you watch the sales and shop shrewdly. To me, the slight premium for U.S. warranty products is well worth the small extra cost. (But then, again, most of my lenses have been bought from the Canon refurbished store).



Respectively disagree. I picked up my "grey market" 6D nearly two years ago for $1150. I can't recall what retail/MAP pricing was at the time, but it was pushing $2k I believe. Even today, Amazon has the 6D listed for $1500. Fuji X-E2 picked up nearly a year ago for $500 brand new, grey market. A 2nd Canon M body a couple years ago, similar story.

With that all said, I'm encouraged by the "open box" and other work arounds that help bring a more competitive, market price to the consumer.


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## tr573 (Oct 20, 2016)

Luds34 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > My view, which I know many others do not share, is that grey market prices are not that much lower (in the U.S.) than authorized dealer prices, if you watch the sales and shop shrewdly. To me, the slight premium for U.S. warranty products is well worth the small extra cost. (But then, again, most of my lenses have been bought from the Canon refurbished store).
> ...



last fall up into christmas gray 5DS/5DSR's were some 6-800$ off retail also. You could get a 5DS for 2900$ on ebay for most of the shopping season. (And it appears they are 2600$ now for this shopping season)


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## AlmostDecent (Oct 20, 2016)

These guys they are pursuing are all listed in their eBay accounts as being US based. There has been no mention of the tons of others. For example, I picked up my grey copy of the Sigma 24-105 f/4 ART for $580 (+FS) from a seller located in Hong Kong (over 50 thousand sales and 99% rep) and got it in 36h in Florida (they sent it FedEx).


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## cbphoto (Oct 20, 2016)

Back in the early 80s, B & H had thousands of gray market goodies, even Kodak film. It's how they got a foothold on the market. And look where they are now.


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## CincyFlyer (Oct 20, 2016)

*About MAP ...*

Note that generally an authorized dealer can sell the product for ANY price; the MAP is only the "Minimum Advertised Price", to prevent one dealer (with perhaps lower overhead, in a smaller town) from poaching sales from a dealer in the opposite situation. 
The workarounds that have been used so far are labeling the product as "open box" or "demo" or "display model". In some cases, the dealer can have you put the item into the shopping cart to see the lower price (though I'm told that some new dealer agreements discourage this). 
The bottom line is that on a one-to-one basis, the dealer _can _give you a number lower than MAP - I have purchased products directly from dealers and made face-to-face deals under MAP (in both the photo and music industries!)


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## preppyak (Oct 20, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> As for grey market warranties, you're generally covered by Canon as their warranty is pretty much global. I've never seen or heard of anyone being denied warranty service for a Canon "grey market" camera or lens. The same can't be said for other manufacturers.


And this is why it makes sense for Canon to crack down on this somewhat. If they are going to honor warranties, they then have to do their authorized dealers a favor and at least provide token resistance to being undercut.

Kind of a win-win overall. Dealers can still find creative ways around MAP, and companies like GetItDigital can as well, while not allowing grey market free reign. As others have mentioned, there are pletny of grey market deals from Korea/Japan/Hong Kong among others


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## dp3294 (Oct 21, 2016)

So basically, Canon is unhappy that one company is buying stock of cameras, rather than another company buying stock of cameras. The grey market cameras didn't magically appear out of thin air. They were manufactured by Canon, and someone purchased them from Canon. Either way, they make money selling their products.


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## Tony5787 (Oct 21, 2016)

Glad this is finally happening, I bought a 7D Mark II from them last year around this time right before the suit was filed and sure enough my camera had a fake serial number attached to it. I have no clue why they would counterfeit the serial number but I feel like that absolutely would have disallowed me from Canon ever doing repairs to the camera should the need have arisen.


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## tr573 (Oct 21, 2016)

Tony5787 said:


> Glad this is finally happening, I bought a 7D Mark II from them last year around this time right before the suit was filed and sure enough my camera had a fake serial number attached to it. I have no clue why they would counterfeit the serial number but I feel like that absolutely would have disallowed me from Canon ever doing repairs to the camera should the need have arisen.



It's a sticker, you just peel it off. The real serial number is in the software, and that's what you register it with. "Yeah my sticker got rubbed off by my tripod plate, sorry."


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## nc0b (Oct 21, 2016)

I purchased a 5DsR and 100-400mm II from Get it Digital, and both registered on line with Canon with no issues. The body was about 9 months ago and the lens 6 months ago. I saved $900 and couldn't be happier with my purchases. I am currently on a month long trip using both items. I did sign up with CPS just in case anything in my kit needed service while out of the country. It was worth the $100 for piece of mind.


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## mycanonphotos (Oct 21, 2016)

I generally could not be any happier with all of my GET IT DIGITAL purchases or gray market purchases. After I received my items I registered them on line with Canon the same day without any issues. Saved me hundreds of dollars going this route. But then again like most everyone else I’m not loaded with cash either and can’t afford to spend $3,500-$7,000 for a new body every three years. They depreciate in value too fast especially depending on how much wear and tear they attain over time… 

I just think it’s a DAMN shame that many individuals will pay full asking price for a camera, lens or other but to each there own. If he or she is comfortable with that then so be it.

I do understand the issues of GRAY products. More counterfeit items can be snuck into a large purchase order by other means of shipping and distribution from different sources… It’s also a way Canon can fight the smaller unauthorized sellers… I love the fact that companies are willing to sell “open box” items when they are only new ones you receive… Broken kit sales etc…


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## Diko (Oct 21, 2016)

mycanonphotos said:


> I generally could not be any happier with all of my GET IT DIGITAL purchases or gray market purchases.


 Any European Union based reseller like GetItDigital. I think after all to save a do$$ar or two on all my next purchases especially with Black Friday and Christmas season almost here...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 21, 2016)

Canon has treated Gray Market purchasers very well, 

BUT -----

BEWARE. Nikon does not treat Gray market buyers well at all. They flat out refuse to repair Gray market items, even if you are willing to pay. This means you must go to 3rd party repair shops, and they may not be able to repair some of the Nikon Lenses.

Even worse, is the used Nikon market. There is absolutely no way for a buyer to determine if a item is Gray Market or not, so ask to see the original bill of sale when buying Nikon.


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## nc0b (Oct 22, 2016)

I think I read that Nikon will no longer sell parts to third party service centers. While I was a happy Nikon owner between 1970 and 1990, I am so pleased I switched to Canon when I went digital about 15 years ago.


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