# Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price



## Kliphten (Mar 2, 2012)

So it's out. Seems like a great camera, but I'm incredibly disappointed in the price. After about 4 years after the II, the III comes out at a much higher price tag. Now, if you look at Apple, they release products every year that are better spec'ed yet they don't increase the price with each release just because it was better than the last iteration.

It's expected that technology improves, right? I understand the dollar has weakened over the last few years but this just seems like a ridiculous price increase. Looks like I won't be getting one, not because I can't but because I feel it isn't worth it.

How's everyone else feel about it?


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## lseamer (Mar 2, 2012)

That sucking sound you hear is market-share going to Nikon and Sony. I can not believe the MkIII has only 
22 Mega pixels, 2 different memory card formats (ugh), very little (if any) new technology and a hefty price increase. The EF 24 -70 II has no IS. Both at a significantly increased price. The only upside is that my MkII and 24 - 70 are still the best values in the market. I CAN believe that the Canon CEO recently resigned.


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## randplaty (Mar 2, 2012)

lseamer said:


> That sucking sound you hear is market-share going to Nikon and Sony. I can not believe the MkIII has only
> 22 Mega pixels, 2 different memory card formats (ugh), very little (if any) new technology and a hefty price increase. The EF 24 -70 II has no IS. Both at a significantly increased price. The only upside is that my MkII and 24 - 70 are still the best values in the market. I CAN believe that the Canon CEO recently resigned.



Who cares about megapixels. Seriously. 22 megapixels can make HUGE prints. I'm glad the price has increased so that people who care about megapixels (non pros) won't buy this camera.


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## Kliphten (Mar 2, 2012)

randplaty said:


> lseamer said:
> 
> 
> > That sucking sound you hear is market-share going to Nikon and Sony. I can not believe the MkIII has only
> ...



That's not really the best reason to increase the price. I think this is a great camera but after 4 years of R&D, to come out with this price seems unreasonable, to me.


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## StevenBrianSamuels (Mar 2, 2012)

randplaty said:


> Who cares about megapixels. Seriously. 22 megapixels can make HUGE prints. I'm glad the price has increased so that people who care about megapixels (non pros) won't buy this camera.



You Sir, have no idea what you are spewing. 

MPs a extremely important to the studio and landscape crowd. Landscape folks what better detail in big prints. Studio folks want to satisfy clients needs for higher MPs so clients can crop as much as they want and still have enough MPs for a variety of uses. 

In your mind MF folks using huge MP digital backs arent pros?


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## Kingw (Mar 2, 2012)

Well what do you expect the price will be, below 3k? It won't happen because it is Canon. 

If you're unhappy about the price, just wait until next year and maybe the price will drop.


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## jaduffy007 (Mar 2, 2012)

It's a 5d2n for $3,500. No thank you.


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## Bob_McBob (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm wondering who would pay $300 extra for the privilege of buying their 5D3 from a Canadian vendor when the dollar is above par.


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## Bonnau_Photo (Mar 2, 2012)

I am hugely disappointed too. But not for the same reasons you are.. 
2 stops better ISO, Almost the same AF as the big dog. 22MP full frame. Better weather sealing. Now I can see not much of a reason to justify the purchase of the 1D X.. Faster frame rate, better body and slightly better AF.. Hard to justify the double price tag.. 
I seriously wish the 1Dx was $5K.

EDIT: for clarity.. I wish the 1D X was $5K


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## BlueMixWhite (Mar 2, 2012)

Overall, seem like a FF sensor living in 7D. Currently in my country, the price for Mk2 is MYR6,700 and converting latest mk3 USD3,500 to MYR....it would be MYR10,500. That like paying extra MYR3,800 for it.


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## SwanSong (Mar 2, 2012)

At 3500 I would rather just pick up a used 5d2 with a 70-200 2.8l mkii and call it a spring! I'm pretty sure the 3500 sticker price will scare many non-pros away.


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## kdsand (Mar 2, 2012)

Is this inflation? Canon has always charged top dollar but.....


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## capertillar (Mar 2, 2012)

yeah, it's a shame... 

question is *why* they set that price point...

my random guess is they already know that there will be severe shortage of the product, given that they need to produce sufficient supply of both the 1DX and 5Dmk3... so during this low supply, high demand period, they figured they may as well boost the price, pocket the extra dollars, and when they're able to produce the 5Dmk3 in larger supply, they can cut the price and market to the "rest" of us

could be awhile before the price cuts happen though... but i cant justify dropping 3500 on this... specs are awesome, but no matter how i see it, it's just a boosted 5dmk2, which as many others have outlined, is expected for the next iteration of the 5dmk3...

imagine what wouldve happened if they released the 5dmk3 with 4 fps, 45 pt AF, same MP (which happened), similar video capabilities, etc etc... wouldve been a major flop (i.e. beaten in most every category by the D800), so all they did was keep the darn thing competitive, while overcharging by a solid 500 USD


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## buster84 (Mar 2, 2012)

The price should have been 3k to at least compete with Nikon. I'm betting that the CEO of Nikon is laughing at canon for sending them lots of new customers.


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## takoman46 (Mar 2, 2012)

I didn't want the 5DmkIII to be priced at $3500 but I pre ordered one anyway because I feel it is still worth it based on the specs and the sample images from the canon japan website. But then again I do not fall into the "non-pro" category as the many of you have described. I think it is a great value compared to the 1Dx, especially for shooting portraits and weddings.  Much more of what I want compared to the Nikon D800. It just depends on what your purposes are and what you expect out of your tools.


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## nicku (Mar 2, 2012)

Many of us have complained about poor AF , slow fps, and others in the 5Dmk2.... NOW canon have solved almost all those problems, AF FPS etc. is not normal to keep the price at $2700 ( don't mention the inflation and other raw materials price increase).

In my opinion $3500 is a fair price for what this camera offers.


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## wockawocka (Mar 2, 2012)

StevenBrianSamuels said:


> randplaty said:
> 
> 
> > Who cares about megapixels. Seriously. 22 megapixels can make HUGE prints. I'm glad the price has increased so that people who care about megapixels (non pros) won't buy this camera.
> ...



MF Folks, myself being one use a sensor 3 times the size of a 35mm DSLR. For certain portrait work I use a Leaf Aptus 22mp back from 2004, the pixel pitch is 9 microns and at ISO 50 it noticeably beats the 5D2, 1Ds3 and 1D4 for IQ.

I would never really consider a 40mp 35mm sensor. Not until a second generation version at least. Image quality is king and even with my 1Ds3 I've taken landscapes that print a meter wide. 

High MP = Small pixels = not good for IQ


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## Kliphten (Mar 2, 2012)

Bonnau_Photo said:


> I am hugely disappointed too. But not for the same reasons you are..
> 2 stops better ISO, Almost the same AF as the big dog. 22MP full frame. Better weather sealing. Now I can see not much of a reason to justify the purchase of the 1D X.. Faster frame rate, better body and slightly better AF.. Hard to justify the double price tag..
> I seriously wish the 1Dx was $5K.
> 
> EDIT: for clarity.. I wish the 1D X was $5K



Well, that is definitely one way to think of it. After seeing the price of the Mark III and the similar specs to the 1DX, I feel that Canon overpriced the 1DX because they know only the pros are going to buy it (not for the masses) and then set the price of the 5DIII where it is at so that everyone would think that it is such a great deal (because you're almost getting a 1DX). I now feel both are over priced.


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## h4ldol (Mar 2, 2012)

Of course I would have been thrilled if the 5DIII was being released for $3000, or even $3200, but since I'll be upgrading from a 40D (that has served me well for the past four years) I feel that it'll be worth the full $3500. If I had a MKII I might feel differently, but this sounds exactly like the FF DSLR I've been waiting for (which is why I just preordered it!).


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## Kliphten (Mar 2, 2012)

Bonnau_Photo said:


> I am hugely disappointed too. But not for the same reasons you are..
> 2 stops better ISO, Almost the same AF as the big dog. 22MP full frame. Better weather sealing. Now I can see not much of a reason to justify the purchase of the 1D X.. Faster frame rate, better body and slightly better AF.. Hard to justify the double price tag..
> I seriously wish the 1Dx was $5K.
> 
> EDIT: for clarity.. I wish the 1D X was $5K



Ah, okay, just saw your edit. Thought you trying to say what a great deal the 5D III was.


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## vuilang (Mar 2, 2012)

a pristine used 5d2 can be buy at around $1750 and it will be lower at the new price will reduce. i really want the 5d3. but at $3000 is convinceable.. NOT $3500..


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## Kliphten (Mar 2, 2012)

nicku said:


> Many of us have complained about poor AF , slow fps, and others in the 5Dmk2.... NOW canon have solved almost all those problems, AF FPS etc. is not normal to keep the price at $2700 ( don't mention the inflation and other raw materials price increase).
> 
> In my opinion $3500 is a fair price for what this camera offers.



Other industries constantly come out with new technology at the same, or even lower, prices. Why not the same for the camera industry?


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## nicku (Mar 2, 2012)

I understand what are you saying.... but if 5D3 was with 19 AF points (same as 7D) 4.9 fps, one card slot and others $3500 have been a high price.


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## Bennymiata (Mar 2, 2012)

As DP Review says, this is not so much a replacement for the 5D2 (as it will remain in production for a reduced price), but halfway model between the 5D2 and 1Dx.
If you look at it this way, and seeing it has the 1Dx focussing, weather sealing, faster FPS etc etc, it doesn't look so expensive anymore.
We'll see in the near future how the Nikon D800 and the 5D3 compare when all the reviewers do their comparisons, but I think the 5D3 will hold its own.
Megapixels aren't everything, that's for sure.

Perhaps Canon should have called it the 3 or 4D just to say hey! This is a new camera, instead of calling it the 5D3, and then we would probably be happier about paying $3500 for it.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 2, 2012)

While I don't think $3500 is a great deal, I don't think it's unreasonable either. This is looking like a do it all work horse and I can't wait to see the reviews. If this thing is everything I think and hope it is, I'll hopefully have one by September. $3500 is just the MSRP and I'm sure you'll see the price drop a little once it hits the streets.... I hope.


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## capertillar (Mar 2, 2012)

quite true... changing the label to 3D would likely have justified the price tag in most peoples eyes...

at the end of the day, we can only compare it to whats available in the market, and since nikon has released a competitive product for 500 USD cheaper than what canon is marketing, then its natural to feel that the 5d3 price tag is a bit on the high side

its arguable whether or not the 5d3 and D800 are comparable, but i think in the most general sense of the term, regarding technology and simply put, capabilities, they both have desirable features... i love the fact the D800 can crop and that it can still accept crop lenses, the 36MP actually isnt a feature im in love with, but no matter, it DOES have features I would have liked to see in my vision of an "ultimate" compact FF dslr body 

so from that perspective, competitive, yes.


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## ronderick (Mar 2, 2012)

mmm... just wandering if this means that the 5D2 is going to stay current?

So 5d2 and 5d3 will remain in the market, offering FF-newcomers another option
for a lower-price FF model...


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## pedro (Mar 2, 2012)

h4ldol said:


> Of course I would have been thrilled if the 5DIII was being released for $3000, or even $3200, but since I'll be upgrading from a 40D (that has served me well for the past four years) I feel that it'll be worth the full $3500. If I had a MKII I might feel differently, but this sounds exactly like the FF DSLR I've been waiting for (which is why I just preordered it!).



So am I. The new cam is the one I was looking for. One year from now or maybe better fall 2013 I'll be upgrading from a 30D. As I am not a pro, and not even in wedding photography, time doesn't matter, and if time is money, there's even a possibility to get it a lower price tag by then.


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## buster84 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

I was hoping for a Mark III at 3k, but that didn't happen. So now I'm looking for a price dropped Mark II or getting a 60d for now and waiting for the Mark IV. I wanted a full frame, but my budget is now 2k. I also want new and not refurbished. I'd rather buy used than refurbished.


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## SRHelicity (Mar 2, 2012)

Kliphten said:


> nicku said:
> 
> 
> > Many of us have complained about poor AF , slow fps, and others in the 5Dmk2.... NOW canon have solved almost all those problems, AF FPS etc. is not normal to keep the price at $2700 ( don't mention the inflation and other raw materials price increase).
> ...



The price of technology almost always go down with time. It's why I can buy a new, very nice laptop now for less than the new, very nice laptop I bought back in 2008 (much better specs for a lower price). We *expect* that the latest models will bring more for less (or at least more for the same), within obvious reason. Typically, for product differentiation purposes, the classes stay similarly-priced, but new models just pack in new or upgraded features. It's quite clear that the 5D3 is not designed to "compete" against the D800. By itself, the 5D3 looks pretty good, though it's out of my price range. In comparison to the latest Nikon offerings, though, it falls quite short. 

If I had no Canon-mount glass, I'd be hard pressed to choose the 5D3 over the D800 right now. However, I do have EF-mount lenses, and my desired camera is a low-end FF. I'd be nice of Canon could come out with a 5D3 "light" -- something with only 3-4 fps, less sophisticated AF, worse weather sealing, similar sensor, etc., for ~$1800-$1900. I'd think that the 5D2 will drop in price to fill that role, but I've read quite mixed reviews about the 5D2 in regards to high ISO noise and AF reliability. 

I assume Canon will eventually put out a very high MP beast to rival the D800, but I'd also think that such a camera would be priced between the 5D3 and the 1D X. Obviously, that's likely a non-starter considering the $2999 price tag for the D800. 

Honestly, as someone who has some money in Canon products but who has little allegiance to the company, I think the D800 was a game changer. Of course, Canon knows that people get invested in the Canon ecosystem (lenses, accessories, etc.), and thus have relatively high inertia when it comes to brands. Most people who own a bunch of Canon products are not going to up and leave the brand since the cost of switching into the Nikon ecosystem can be expensive (replace all lenses, etc.). As such, they probably realize that they can charge a premium. Of course, this does little to attract new users, but it's apparent to me, based upon the 5D3's price, that Canon isn't focusing on that right now.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Mar 2, 2012)

When comparing the price to the D800, we need to keep in mind that the D700, while a wonderful camera in itself was deep in the shadow of the 5DII it terms of media attention and market share in that segment. So it can be argued that Nikon is in a position that they are forced to wow the media and general population based on both dry spec lists and price.
Canon is in a much more confident position and they feel that they can charge more for their product. That sucks for us Canon users that do not want or cannot jump ship but that's simply the nature of the free market. And the market will ultimately dictate the price.


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## caMARYnon (Mar 2, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> I would never really consider a 40mp 35mm sensor. Not until a second generation version at least. Image quality is king and even with my 1Ds3 I've taken landscapes that print a meter wide.
> 
> High MP = Small pixels = not good for IQ


When Canon offered 21Mp senzor the Nikon's users said the same because they had only 12Mp at that moment. And Nikon was leader in high ISO ...
Let's wait for proff reviews and comparisons 

The 3500US and maybe 3500 EUR here is huge in my opinion. For the moment 5D2 is great.


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## tasteofjace (Mar 2, 2012)

The 5D3 is better in almost every single way when compared to the 5D2.

Are people even educating themselves on the information??

Lots of people whining about the Megapixel count. I'm guessing they didn't read into how they have used new pixel technology this time around which leads to better quality images and process of colors and light. 

But people are lazy I suppose. They see an arbitrary number and immediately take a dump in their pants.


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## StevenBrianSamuels (Mar 2, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> StevenBrianSamuels said:
> 
> 
> > randplaty said:
> ...



I rent when I need MF (H1 w/ a p30+ back) but it cuts into my budget significantly. A high MP canon would help me a lot until I can work (and I mean work) up to my own MF gear. I very much doubt, after skillful sharpening is applied that most of _my_ clients would see any difference but they would love the cropping room. Some "higher end" clients ...possibly and I would still rent for them till I can get my MF gear.


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## evenfy (Mar 2, 2012)

Haha, in Norway, the asking price is NOK 29 990, which equals about $5400. It's almost twice the price of the Mark II


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## capertillar (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

i will wait until the 5d3 can be had for around 3k

i dont really want to invest ~2k in a 5d2 that i know doesnt have all the features i want... i.e. AF and fps
but at the same time, 3500 is also too high

just got to wait it out a bit longer... ^^


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## dunkers (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

I'm actually looking to sell of my 60D to fund the 5dmk3. It has everything I want minus the fps. But seeing as I've shot a variety of collegiate sports with my 60D, I welcome the increase with open arms. 

I had the opportunity to purchase the 5dmk2 when it came out, but was disappointed by its lackluster AF and low light performance.


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## briansquibb (Mar 2, 2012)

randplaty said:


> lseamer said:
> 
> 
> > That sucking sound you hear is market-share going to Nikon and Sony. I can not believe the MkIII has only
> ...



Well I am an amateur and $3500 wont stop me - amateurs are more likely to buy top gear because they are passionate about photography and dont have to justify every dollar spent like a pro. The cost of the cameras are overshadowed by the cost of the lens - my 3 white lens cost twice as much as the 3 pro bodies ..... 

We may get to the point where an amateur turns up to weddings with better gear than a journeyman pro - oh hang on - that already happens.

Brian


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## jrista (Mar 2, 2012)

lseamer said:


> That sucking sound you hear is market-share going to Nikon and Sony. I can not believe the MkIII has only
> 22 Mega pixels, 2 different memory card formats (ugh), very little (if any) new technology and a hefty price increase. The EF 24 -70 II has no IS. Both at a significantly increased price. The only upside is that my MkII and 24 - 70 are still the best values in the market. I CAN believe that the Canon CEO recently resigned.



WOW!! WTF?? 61 point reticular AF with 14 cross type points...up from a whoppping NINE points, with a SINGLE center cross type!! The 7D's color metering system, vs. the monochromatic one from the 5D II. A bump up in FPS from screamin' 3.9 to 6, moving it into the realm of actual viability for higher speed AF and action photography (you need at least 4.5fps to really do continuous action shooting well, and 6fps, while not as good as the 7D's 8fps, is great for 22.3mp, and better than the D800's 4fps). It does 18 continuous frames (vs. 15 for the 7D with only 18mp and 8fps), which is a huge boon for action shooters. A TWO FULL STOP native ISO improvement from 6400 to 25600, and the ISO 6400 images look STUNNING!! Thats AWESOME for low-light shooters who can't drop $6800 for the 1D X. A 100% viewfinder, up from 98%...owning a 7D, that is unbelievably handy from a composition standpoint. Its even got a sensor resolution TUNED to HD video pulldown, so for those of us who WANT the ability to shoot video as well as stills for our $3500, thats definitely an improvement!

Seriously, this kind of S___ ticks me off. You whiners have SO MUCH CAPABILITY in a camera *1/10th* as good as this. And your literally bitching about the 5D III? GET OVER YOURSELVES! *Its definitely an improvement.*


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## briansquibb (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



dunkers said:


> I'm actually looking to sell of my 60D to fund the 5dmk3. It has everything I want minus the fps. But seeing as I've shot a variety of collegiate sports with my 60D, I welcome the increase with open arms.
> 
> I had the opportunity to purchase the 5dmk2 when it came out, but was disappointed by its lackluster AF and low light performance.



Did you rent a 5DII for long enough to test these out? Maybe the AF performance takes some getting used to - but the low light performance is amongst the best.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 2, 2012)

Kliphten said:


> So it's out. Seems like a great camera, but I'm incredibly disappointed in the price. After about 4 years after the II, the III comes out at a much higher price tag. Now, if you look at Apple, they release products every year that are better spec'ed yet they don't increase the price with each release just because it was better than the last iteration.
> 
> It's expected that technology improves, right? I understand the dollar has weakened over the last few years but this just seems like a ridiculous price increase. Looks like I won't be getting one, not because I can't but because I feel it isn't worth it.
> 
> How's everyone else feel about it?



Yeah they didn't give it a pricey 7-8fps mirror/shutter box so why the $800 more?
Sure AF is way better for once, but that is the only improvement and for 4 years well that should be why you pay the same price again, not $800 more. At least match the D800 price.


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## LuckyRosco (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

I will buy the 5D mkIII no matter how much it costs, that's IF there isn't another camera body coming out at the end of the year (3D). I will only have a few months out of this year to actually travel and take pictures. So I would hate to buy a new camera and not be able to shoot with it for 6 months. For now I will buy the 24-70 L II and use it on my 5DmkII. Who knows what the prices and availablity will be at the end of December. It should be in stock everywhere and there might be a discount on the body by then. Or the 3D High MP monster might be announced by then. I will cross that bridge when I get there.


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## SRHelicity (Mar 2, 2012)

tasteofjace said:


> The 5D3 is better in almost every single way when compared to the 5D2.
> 
> Are people even educating themselves on the information??
> 
> ...



Of course it is! Is anyone arguing that the 5D3 isn't an upgrade from the 5D2? It better darn well be, considering it's a brand new model being compared to a camera that's several years ago, and it's now priced at a considerable premium to the 5D2 (like comparing the T2i to the 7D). Honestly, if we assume DSLRs are technology products like many other tech products (point-n-shoots, cell phones, televisions, computers, etc.), then, over the course of several years, we should EXPECT better technology for the same price (or expect significantly lower prices for the same technology). I'm not giving Canon a pass because they improved on a several-year-old camera. There aren't many consumer products that don't see relatively significant price reductions over the course of several years, or at least that don't see significant upgrades for similar prices. 

We, as consumers, should demand more. I still maintain that the 5D3 should be <= $3k. I'm not a professional, nor do I make big $$, so $3500 is a significant chunk of change for me. If I had a 5D2, I couldn't see myself justifying spending $3500 (+ tax) for the 5D3. I currently have a 60D, and I've been looking to jump up to FF, but I'd rather get a budget FF (<$2k) with 3-4 fps, less sophisticated AF and AE, etc.; I may end up with a 5D2 assuming the price drops.


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## Michael7 (Mar 2, 2012)

The specs aren't enough of a "jump" IMHO to garner the $3500 price. I'll probably keep my 7D for wildlife/action and pick up a 5D II for landscape.


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## Hillsilly (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm more annoyed at US$850 for the WFT-E7A wireless file transmitter. And am reading this right - you need the ST-E3-RT transmitter (US$470) to wirelessly trigger the new flash? Plus another US$390 for the GP-E2 GPS receiver if you want GPS data?

Seriously people, it's 2012. We're in the age of connectivity and the cloud. You'd expect all of the above to be built into a new, $3,500 camera.


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## Michael7 (Mar 2, 2012)

You expect a company that doesn't include lens hoods with lenses in 2012 to include that?


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## Flake (Mar 2, 2012)

Hillsilly said:


> I'm more annoyed at US$850 for the WFT-E7A wireless file transmitter. And am reading this right - you need the ST-E3-RT transmitter (US$470) to wirelessly trigger the new flash? Plus another US$390 for the GP-E2 GPS receiver if you want GPS data?
> 
> Seriously people, it's 2012. We're in the age of connectivity and the cloud. You'd expect all of the above to be built into a new, $3,500 camera.



And the transmitter doesn't have AF assist!


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## Rank_90 (Mar 2, 2012)

Hillsilly said:


> And am reading this right - you need the ST-E3-RT transmitter (US$470) to wirelessly trigger the new flash?



The way I read it, the transmiter is built in to the Mark III. Very impressed with the Camera. Love it! Liver and lung are on ebay to cover cost. Happy Bidding!


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## Global Express (Mar 2, 2012)

You guys in the USA should consider yourselves lucky!!! Here in the UK, the 5DmkIII is retailing for £2999.95 - that's $4780 USD!!!!!!! 

I would happily pay $3,500 USD for the 5DmkIII. The US price tag translates into around 2,100 GBP, which is roughly the same as the 5DmkII when first released in the UK.

As usual, the prices over here are ridiculous. For 3,000, I'd rather get a refurbished 1Dmk4.


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## nighstar (Mar 2, 2012)

i too am saddened by the high price of the camera (particularly the ridiculous premium Australia is made to pay), but do i think the price is completely unwarranted? well, i think it's too early to really tell.

this camera with its specs is my dream digital camera.... i just wish it were more affordable.

...

damn Australia and its high prices. i miss America!


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## randplaty (Mar 2, 2012)

StevenBrianSamuels said:


> randplaty said:
> 
> 
> > Who cares about megapixels. Seriously. 22 megapixels can make HUGE prints. I'm glad the price has increased so that people who care about megapixels (non pros) won't buy this camera.
> ...



MF folks will not buy this camera even if it had 40 mpix. MF is not all about Mpix. 

It's fine to speculate on what other people want, but do you actually know professionals who want more megapixels? I know hundreds of professionals and the vast majority do not care about megapixels. Speculate on the landscape crowd or the studio crowd or whatever crowd. Canon knows who the professionals are and Canon is talking to them. I am a wedding photographer and everyone on our pro forum is singing praises literally. Canon FINALLY listened. Canon is actively engaging with professionals and they have seriously listened. They have designed this camera for professionals and not for the hobbyist bird shooter. Professionals will not blink at spending an extra $1000 to get pretty much the perfect camera.


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## Flake (Mar 2, 2012)

A major mistake on the price. Is this camera so good it warrants a launch price double the high street price of the previous model, and 25% more expensive than the D800? Somehow I doubt it, the improvements seem very incremental over the MkII, and while that camera sold in massive numbers I'll stick my neck out and say that this one won't.

I'm going to hold off buying one, I'm convinced Canon are going to get a shock when customer demand isn't any where close to what they expect, and that the price will fall quite dramatically within 6 months of launch. I bought the 5D MkII soon after launch with a battery grip and spent Â£1900 I'd now have to spend close to twice that for a camera which isn't going to give me twice the image quality.

For me it's a big thumbs down I'll keep my cash until Canon get some sense, I remember the outcry of Nikon shooters over the D3x price, and a lot of them boycotted the camera, it didn't sell well at all, this is how I see the MkIII, it's just not enough of a step change to justify the price.


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## Drama79 (Mar 2, 2012)

Well, I'm getting one (Pre-order is in). Like I've said before, I use my 7D for 50/50 photo and video, and this will move everything along nicely. I'd been looking to jump to the 5D2 six months ago, and this actually makes the translation easier, as I think it will operate very similar to the 7, at first use. It IS expensive, but it is also a big jump forward, and will make the 5D2 seem very slow.


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## CJRodgers (Mar 2, 2012)

Im just annoyed that somehow $3500 equals £3000. Had it had been at the correct exchange rate i would have had some confidence that by december i would have bought it (historically new cameras are usually 15% off ish in december). 

They have done an excellent job at protecting the 5d mkii price at £1500. This also makes me doubnt how much the 5d mkii will be discounted from now (as rumored for the 4th march), as nothing else is that close to its price. 

I cant justify double the cost for the 5d mkiii. Also ill wait for the reviews but an extra 25% above the d800 seems alot. Maybe ill take a trip to new york for xmas and it get then  (keep the missus happy too)

Im sure its worth it, but i just cant afford it. Id rather have a lesser camera and an extra l lens. Gutted.


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## noncho (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

I'm staying with 60D - too expensive new cameras for hobby and more expensive high quality EF lens...


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## crunchy (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm still baffled by the people who are constantly prattling on about how the low-MP sensor means better DR and high ISO compared to the (less expensive) D800.

Have those people even seen the D800 sample images?

I so want the 5DIII to have amazing DR and high ISO (in raw, not some jpeg noise reduction hell) but I wouldn't call it just yet.

Bring on the reviews, comparisons etc.

And a RAW file or two wouldn't hurt.


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## candyman (Mar 2, 2012)

In Europe the price of $3500 shall be converted 1:1 so it will be €3500
That is twice the price of the new price of the 5DMKII, which is €1750. 
I find the new price of the 5DMK3 way *too* much.

They should open at €2500 that is *still* €750 (approx. $1000) above the new price of the 5D MKII !!!


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## briansquibb (Mar 2, 2012)

How many times does it have to be said that the MSRP is not the street price and therefore shouldn't be compared with a heavily discounted street price


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## Edwin Herdman (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

If I didn't feel I needed the higher resolution (and "lens reach" through the crop factor) of a 7D I would be very pleased with this. As it is, it doesn't seem like a good solution for a cheap bird photographer. If I had 800mm and 200mm f/2 lenses, I would consider it, though, because what it will do for wide angle and standard shots is not inconsiderable. I'd expect the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II and a 5D III to be a better (though not lighter) combination overall than my 7D and 135mm f/2L, for example, at the 200mm end. But the cost is high enough that I'd rather just stick with the 7D format for now.


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## candyman (Mar 2, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> How many times does it have to be said that the MSRP is not the street price and therefore shouldn't be compared with a heavily discounted street price




Brian, you are right. 
Though the shops copy the MSRP. The 24-70 MK II is currently for sale at around €2500. Yes, they may drop the price in competition but that will be between €250 and max. €500. So it will still be very very expensive


Ah well, good that we have an economy crisis. May they are forced to drop the price more in order to meet the 2012 sales target. Don't know :-\


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## randplaty (Mar 2, 2012)

crunchy said:


> I'm still baffled by the people who are constantly prattling on about how the low-MP sensor means better DR and high ISO compared to the (less expensive) D800.
> 
> Have those people even seen the D800 sample images?
> 
> ...



http://blog.jeffascough.com/photographers/2012/03/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-review.html

He says its 2 stops better than the mk2 and he shoots RAW. There are a couple images up too. He says the DR is better. People are saying it's better, it's just whether or not you trust them. 

The D800 is supposed to be on par with the D700 but not better.


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## ruuneos (Mar 2, 2012)

Just went check local store price 3799€ = $5100 bit too overpriced ???


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## ewg963 (Mar 2, 2012)

Canon???!!!! Canon???!!!! You got to be kidding???!!!!! 3499??!!!! Repeat 3499??!!!! I'll keep the Mark II and save up for the IDX or switch over to Nikon!!! Wow!!! Disappointing very disappointing!!!  I may reconsider if the price drops!!!! :-\

I've calmed down now but I'll wait to see how the market will dictate the movement of the 5D III 8) The Mark II still takes great pics most can agree on that!!!


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## epiem (Mar 2, 2012)

I too am disappointed with the price.

With the specs given I would be fine paying $3000, but an extra $500, plus another $490 for Grip (that at least uses the same batteries) - Too much money to upgrade from several 5DmII's.

Now, if the Video was 1080 @ 60, I would have GLADLY paid $3500. No questions asked.

Too bad for Canon; they won't be seeing my money for a new body until that price goes down.

I'm just curious how many people will move over to Nikon. Especially those who were looking for a FF upgrade with not many lenses in tow.

I think Canon may have dropped the ball on this one.


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## mathino (Mar 2, 2012)

ruuneos said:


> Just went check local store price 3799€ = $5100 bit too overpriced ???



We don't have prices as for now. But I've noticed that 5D Mk II price has come up to 1919 €. A week ago the price was around 1800 €. I really don't think that there will be price drop on 5D Mk II - as seen in our country (Slovakia).


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## ruuneos (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

5D Mark III price will drop soon after it have been released for sale. Few months and there will be first sales on it for $4099 kit and body only $3099.


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## Grum (Mar 2, 2012)

As above, if it was $3500 in the uk I'd be happy, but translating that to £2999 is a joke. Will see what happens once prices settle down.


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## 00Q (Mar 2, 2012)

*IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

I'm fed up of reading this forum today and hearing people complaining about the 5DIII pricing. Did you ever think it was going to sell for less than $2500? The prices will be lower when it hits the high street stores when it first comes out. But most importantly,

1) Do you NEED a 5DIII?

if not, shut up.

2) Can you afford a 5DIII now?

if not, shut up. 

3) Can you ever afford a 5DIII?

if not, shut up.

4) If you can afford it but are not considering buying it

shut up

5) If you want to buy a 5DIII but will wait for a year when the price drops, then why are you complaining about the prices NOW? It is irrelevant.

shut up

6) If you actually need a 5DIII and really wanted to buy it now for pro use. Well done. You fall into the 5% of population here on this forum. Your opinion and rant is valid.

Everyone else, stop jumping on the bandwagon and stop complaining.


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## jrista (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

DITTO. 

Not a pro, but I can't wait to get my hands on my own personal 5D III. I'm rather pleased with its specs.


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## Raddy (Mar 2, 2012)

For all those of you complaining about the price tag in the US, shoulda check prices here in Ger_Money_. 
It's *3300 Euros* for the body only which would be $4400.
Even if its about 3000 Euros when it hits the streets, that would be ~$4000.
What do they think? Germans/Europeans grow Euros on trees??


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## caMARYnon (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



00Q said:


> I'm fed up of reading this forum today and hearing people complaining about the 5DIII pricing. Did you ever think it was going to sell for less than $2500? The prices will be lower when it hits the high street stores when it first comes out. But most importantly,
> 
> 1) Do you NEED a 5DIII?
> 
> ...


Too many shut ups from one people ;D 
I think you are a teacher in real life (or a little dictator) and you take theese things too personal


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## candyman (Mar 2, 2012)

Raddy said:


> For all those of you complaining about the price tag in the US, shoulda check prices here in Ger_Money_.
> It's *3300 Euros* for the body only which would be $4400.
> Even if its about 3000 Euros when it hits the streets, that would be ~$4000.
> What do they think? Germans/Europeans grow Euros on trees??




$3500 should be €2640 (todays rate) Now that is a total different streetprice. I would consider that price. But in Europe they are greedy and just convert 1:1


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## TAR (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

if you have the rights to tell others to shut up then other have rights to complain..hey are discussing their opinions..if you want you read ..or shut up..dont make a useless post


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## dkingentertainment (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

From a videography standpoint I'm not seeing enough to make me pay 3,500 and get rid of my 5d mark II. I need to see more especially with the magic lantern features on the mark II. Come ON Canon!!! I'm disappointed!!!


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## epiem (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



00Q said:


> 6) If you actually need a 5DIII and really wanted to buy it now for pro use. Well done. You fall into the 5% of population here on this forum. Your opinion and rant is valid.



5% of the Population is pretty *bad* for Canon's bottom line.

If the price was just slightly lower, I'm sure that number would raise significantly.

JustSayin


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## DogoftheMoon (Mar 2, 2012)

I agree with Takoman46. Price is relative to your needs. When I heard the price for the Mark iii was going to be $3500, I though I'd pass and wait for it to drop. But when I read what the improvements actually were, I pre-ordered one right away. A year and a half ago I did a comparison between the image quality of the Sony XDCAM ($6400) and 5D mark ii ($3200--body and 24-70 2.8L zoom). The mark ii blew it away, so I sold the XDCAM and got the 5D m2, a couple of L lenses, and viewing accessories, and started getting cinematography jobs precisely because clients where looking for experienced 5D m2 operators who came with the camera, and they were in short supply. And business the last year has been great. And while I still think the Mark ii is an awesome camera, the mark iii has addressed some of the short comings of the mark ii shooting video, especially in low light. Just the improved 2-stop lower video noise is worth the price increase, let alone the audio metering. The more I shoot in low, natural light, spend less on lights and lighting crew, but keep a rich, clean professional looking image, the cheaper the budgets and happier the clients.


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## dkingentertainment (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Is it 4yrs of technology better than my 5D mark II. NO!! So shut up!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Joellll (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

I suspect canon is doing this because they want to boost the 5d3 sales even more, since it will still be in production.

Well played canon.


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## starstreak (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Too bad, I'll complain. I have the mkII. I would love to get the mkIII but $3500? That hurts. Granted it's no 1DX price, but still...
Who does Canon think they are? Apple?


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## wockawocka (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Canon did us a favour. I had 2 x 1Dx's on onrder, now I have a 1Dx, 5D3 and a 24-70 II instead.


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## capertillar (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

so ur sick of reading other ppl rant about the price, so you go and rant about... nothing? 

forums are meant for discussing individual thoughts and concerns

people are entitled to offering their opinions about how various companies are producing and marketing their products

likewise, many of these forums are visited by corporations to gain a better understanding of what their ideal customers are seeking and expecting

it's through these "discussions" that we are able to at least passively inform canon about our views. 

im a firm believer that they do "hear" us, and whether or not they take action, they at least are listening. 

you choose to participate in these forums, so just accept what it is. many feel the price is high, many feel the price is reasonable. there is no right answer, let the forums be what they are meant to be.


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## CJRodgers (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

There are lots of people who have been waiting over a year for this camera, hoping it would improve on the 5d mkii, and come in at a similar price to what the 5d mkii started at £2200ish. Even a modest increase would have been perfectly fine. The extra 35% cost puts it out of reach of lots of enthusiasts who would have otherwise bought this camera. Please allow people to express their frustrations. It might even reach the right ears. Just dont read the threads titled 'dissapointed at price' etc then you wont be annoyed.


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## epiem (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

As far as being a Producer: 
I agree with DKing, we have several 5DmII's and were looking at the 5DmIII as a video upgrade. 
Sad to see there is no 1080 @ 60. We would have bought 3 right off the bat at the listed price for 1080 @ 60. But alas...not part of the specs.

As far as Photography goes: 
Nice camera, good specs, but let's be honest...is this *really* an upgrade for almost double the price of a 5DmII?

If you can take a good photo, -to an extent- the equipment doesn't really matter. People have been doing just fine with a lot less for a long time.

Bottom line:
-At this price- I would rather buy two 5DmII's or a 5DmII and another 70-200 2.8L II

We could and DO take great photos with the equipment we already have.


I believe Canon is pulling some BS here and will probably see a bad drop in their bottom line for this one.


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## Rush-G (Mar 2, 2012)

Jessops in the UK have posted pre order prices of £2999 for 5D MK III Body only. Thats a steep price when its $3500 in the states, I'd rather fly to US buy a 5D MKIII and back to blighty with a couple o 100 pounds left over...ok so I may loose out on the warranty front...but the warrantees really aren't that great anyway.


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## smartysmart34 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Never read such an arrogant statement before. Maybe I just didn't read too many of your posts...
Now, where's that bloody "ignore" button again?!?

This is about the DSLR market, it is about competitors and it is about ones oppinion on whether that price is justified or not. And seeing the D800 and comparing it to the 5dIII one gets the impression the MkIII is slightly overprised. And I think it is fully acceptable for people to actually write what they think.

I'm not too heavily invested in Canon lenses. Therefor I was actually starting to calculate how much it would cost to sell the canon equipment and get similar lenses plus D800 from Nikon. Did you see the price for that grip? I get the feeling Canon wants to rip us off. And to my oppinion it is fully acceptable to draw conclusions and act accordingly.

And if Canon thinks that only Pros should buy their 5series, I guess they will lose a significant market share. I know approx. 10 MkII owners and they're all enthusiasts. Non-Pro.

I was willing to buy a MkIII, the grip and get a new lens with it (17-40) and I even put aside some 4.000 € for that package. Ain't gonna happen...

Martin


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## bornshooter (Mar 2, 2012)

Rush-G said:


> Jessops in the UK have posted pre order prices of £2999 for 5D MK III Body only. Thats a steep price when its $3500 in the states, I'd rather fly to US buy a 5D MKIII and back to blighty with a couple o 100 pounds left over...ok so I may loose out on the warranty front...but the warrantees really aren't that great anyway.


we in the uk have been well and truly shafted yet again but our shite government is to blame also i wish the price would come down to at least 2500 which it will but when...
i had a good laugh at the price of the new flash lol nearly 700 uk haha


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## T3Heavyshop (Mar 2, 2012)

This may have been a strategic move. It opens up a huge price gap in the canon line that should be filled.

7D: $1700
next body 
5DIII: $3500

Seems odd that canon would have a camera 20+ cameras priced up to $1700, then suddenly double the price before different body is offered. Something is going to fill that gap.


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## Drama79 (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm in the UK, and have pre-ordered from B&H. I'm over there April2nd-12th, so here's hoping. Otherwise friends will ship it to me, and I still "save" compared to the crippling UK markup. Not as bad as some Eurozone countries, mind you....


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## Steamy (Mar 2, 2012)

I agree, that markup to 3K puts the price up there with the 1D now, I have seen the 1D MkIV for less than 3K. Very disappointing, I am not paying 50% more for something for the sake of geography, especially at this price point . Would have stretched to £2500-£2600, but £500 is the log that broke the camels back. Might as well go for the Nikon D800 as I don't have a huge collection of lenses.


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## Rexepic (Mar 2, 2012)

Global Express said:


> You guys in the USA should consider yourselves lucky!!! Here in the UK, the 5DmkIII is retailing for £2999.95 - that's $4780 USD!!!!!!!
> 
> I would happily pay $3,500 USD for the 5DmkIII. The US price tag translates into around 2,100 GBP, which is roughly the same as the 5DmkII when first released in the UK.
> 
> As usual, the prices over here are ridiculous. For 3,000, I'd rather get a refurbished 1Dmk4.



I get it. I live in GerMONEY (as someone else on the threads here put it). Hell, if you have to spend the money, buy a ticket to NYC for a weekend (cheaper than the price difference) and buy it at BH's store. You'll get a camera and a weekend getaway (with ample shooting opportunities) for the same price!


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## Raddy (Mar 2, 2012)

candyman said:


> Raddy said:
> 
> 
> > For all those of you complaining about the price tag in the US, shoulda check prices here in Ger_Money_.
> ...



I would say 2640 Euros would be somewhat fair as a starting price, compared to the announced price right now in Germany. Actually I'm quite curious what the street price will be as, not considering to pre-order that body to get one from the first batch. Guess I will be waiting a little and see what happens. I do want to upgrade to FF but not neccissarily now. So I will check prices at christmas and get myself a nice present if charge less then. ;-)


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## infamous619 (Mar 2, 2012)

Why complain about the price, I mean just ask yourselves do you need the mkiii right now? if so well be prepared to pay the price, and besides its just the 1st day of release, and someone mention on another topic its a supply and demand thing, YES we are demanding the camera, but there is not much of a supply, so canon spikes the prices just give it months you'll probably see deals left and right, and why would you buy it right away? wouldn't you want to get all the bugs cleared out first, that is why i'm going to wait couple months after release, to purchase it, LETS BE SMART people,


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## leGreve (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

720p at 60.... sry Canon, I know you gotta protect your large cams, but you just made the decission easy.... I WONT replace my mk II with a III. There's absolutely no point and definately not at that price point.

I'm thankful I bought the FS100, which is a MUCH BETTER camera at just a little more money, and can use my Canon lenses. You could probably even buy a used FS100 now for something like 4.5k or so.

Canon canon canon... fail, you are losing this game, and the C300 is not better.


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## candyman (Mar 2, 2012)

T3Heavyshop said:


> This may have been a strategic move. It opens up a huge price gap in the canon line that should be filled.
> 
> 7D: $1700
> next body
> ...




Actually, with the features and the price the 5D MK3 should have been named: 3D


Then you introduce a 5D MK3 with 19AF points etc etc for about $2500
That would have made sense sort of...


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## hoousi (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

I think the mark3 is awesome in its specs and will prove to be a very nice camera, really a 1dx in a cheaper package, and the pics will be far from bad. As I just got the markII, which seems to be a horrible camera unable to take a decent picture according to many forum members, I don't yet feel the urge to upgrade and rather learn my way around this beauty of a cam and towards end of the year I'll probably be able to choose between the 1dx, 5dIII and probably even a high mp (3?)d if until then all the reviews are out and some bugs corrected and the gadget bug bites me.
But lets face it, we are at the point of diminishing returns, it makes more sense to jump one generation (unless of course you need a new feature, here the AF comes to mind, which I find to be awesome according to specs) if you want to see substantial improvement or upgrade 1 step.


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## gecko (Mar 2, 2012)

Want one......but don't need one, so the price settles it. Could buy 2x MkII's for this.

No MkIII for me. :'(

Let's see where the price is in 12-18 months (and how the 2nd price for a MkII is holding up - which, given the MkIII price, might be quite well!) and I might reconsider.


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## marekjoz (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

00Q: Yes, I am also fed up with all these complaints. 

But it is really rude to shut peoples' mouths. I think this forum is ran on base of democratic rules and it REQUIRES to ALLOW people to speak, no matter what they think. This is the reason YOU also COULD write what you think, although it is somehow arrogant, at least.

Everybody wants it cheap, people had their dreams, now came some dissapointment to some of them. I think we have here some kind of community of people excited with canon gears, technology and photography on the first place. Community has its goals, its hierarchy (formal and informal) and its members. I can't talk for everyone here but I am sure that the goal of this community IS NOT to offend anyone here or make anyone here feel worse, sad or undervaluated. I am here because of members' personal culture and readiness to help quite disinterestly, no matter what the problem is, and what skills represents a person who asks.

I am convinced, people would rather like to read what to do afford 5d3 AND NOT how meaningless they are.

I've read what you wrote. You are fed up with peoples' complaints. Ok. So you are complaining as well...

You were heard and read. Will you listen and read as well?


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## smirkypants (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

It seems rather obvious to me that Canon is deliberately trying to adjust upwards the prices of its higher grade equipment. Everything new that's being produced seems to have a price tag that's around 25-35% higher than in the past.

We as consumers have three choices:
1. Pay the higher prices.
2. Sit tight with the equipment that we have.
3. Look at what other companies are offering.

To me it looks like Canon is relying on the fact that people are brand loyal and feel trapped by their investment in Canon lenses. To me it seems like the other guy is being a little more aggressive in their pricing. I don't see a lot of people complaining about the price of the D800; quite the opposite, in fact. I read lots of "how can they offer this much at this price." The 5D3 on the other hand just seems evolutionary rather than revolutionary. They could have combined the best features of the 7D along with the best features of the 5D and been 90% of the way there a couple of years ago.

So yeah, it costs too much. Their lenses cost too much. I think the pricing is arrogant and I hope people choose options 2 & 3 from above to smack Canon around a little.


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## traveller (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



smartysmart34 said:


> Never read such an arrogant statement before. Maybe I just didn't read too many of your posts...
> Now, where's that bloody "ignore" button again?!?
> 
> This is about the DSLR market, it is about competitors and it is about ones oppinion on whether that price is justified or not. And seeing the D800 and comparing it to the 5dIII one gets the impression the MkIII is slightly overprised. And I think it is fully acceptable for people to actually write what they think.
> ...



Well said. 

Whilst I think that the 5D MkIII is a great camera, I think that Canon is going to have enough of a challenge convincing people that 22MP is enough resolution for them without having to explain why they want £600 more than the D800.


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## baloudim (Mar 2, 2012)

Price in europe is 3999euro http://www.fotokonijnenberg.be/product/1631461/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-body.html
It's 5299$ !!!!
are they crazy!


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## biggles_no1 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

The, body only, pre-order price in the UK is £2,999 and although the price will drop a bit I just can't afford it. The, body only, mkII price is now £1,500 on amazon.co.uk so it looks like I will be going for the mkII and I will still be able to comfortably afford to get the battery grip too.

Still, in a years time I'll think about it again


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## te4o (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

The sad sad thing is that for a large majority of enthusiasts who want to jump up to FF and have an array of EF lenses there is NO CHOICE !! I can't buy 4 year technology with all the issues (c'mon guys, you can't call this a 'low-light camera' - this is exaggerated loyalty- go and push). But as you say 3500! Well, I'll have to wait again several months after the market release, who knows how this thing performs in real life. 
I am not considering a different model. The 5D3 is the camera I've been waiting for. The price is probably not the issue, our salaries and income are the issue...
I said the 5D3 is about three quarters of the 1DX but at half the price. Someone remarked very wisely that BOTH are overpriced ! I'll wait and see what the Asian retailers have to offer in 3-4 months. I can accept 3500 USD but I can't accept 4200 AUD!! Especially when the AUD:USD=1:1.08 ! Sick retailers!
Anyway, I'll get it some day, but have to swallow the bitter pill and be convinced that there'll be no price change.


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## Astro (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

if your username is 00Q.... shut the fuk up and troll another forum.


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## te4o (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

That said, I hope that when the D800 and the 5D3 hit the market Canon will lower the price at least to the D800 level.


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## candyman (Mar 2, 2012)

KIT price 5D MKIII


http://www.cameratools.nl/default.asp?pageid=34&webgroupfilter=440&artdetail=CAEOS5DMKIII2470II 


EDIT: that is US $7928 (todays rate)


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## MazV-L (Mar 2, 2012)

Au$4,399.00 for body only at Digidirect, compare that too the 1D4: Au$4,999.00


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## BlueMixWhite (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Base on the recent unfortunate events that happen in both Thailand and Japan, Nikon suffered more losses than canon. I was expecting Nikon to boost up its prices, but instead we have canon here pricing every new release way way high.


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## Bennymiata (Mar 2, 2012)

You guys in Europe should realise that your wonderful socialist governments are charging you around 20 -25% in taxes (VAT or GST or whatever they call it over there), so there's a chunk of the difference, + you also have heavy import duties on anything not made in Europe.

Here in Australia, our tax is 10%, which is reasonable, while in the US if you buy something from another state, you pay no sales tax, but if you live in New York and buy from B&H, you have to pay around 8-9% state sales tax on top of the price?

American has the cheapest prices, except for Hong Kong perhaps, but the US buys such huge quantities compared to other countries that the factory gives the US distributors the best deals too.

The distributors in the US pay relatively low wages to their staff too, especially with the minimum wage requirements in Europe or Australia (where the minimum wage is around US$20/hour compared to around US$7.50/hour in the US), so their overheads are less, and hence, they can sell it cheaper to the stores.

There's lots of things to consider when you compare retail prices from one country to another.


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## vadim_b (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

Some days before actual 5Dmk3 announcement, i went to store and bought my first FF camera - 5D Mark II, without any doubts. I have to take better pictures now, and for 2300$ it is a perfect camera to me. I don't care if it's almost 4 years old and has AF problems. My 7D has worse and less accurate AF system than on 5Dmk2 (Strange, but it is, actually. 2 years of use and I still can't get it to work properly. 5Dmk2 focus is spot on with my every prime lens).

So, I'm happy with Mark II and going out to take beautiful pictures, right now. Those, who want to wait for 5D3 price drop or something else, maybe 5Dmk4 release, good luck! You will have to wait forever. Life's too short.


----------



## thatcherk1 (Mar 2, 2012)

Bennymiata said:


> You guys in Europe should realise that your wonderful socialist governments are charging you around 20 -25% in taxes (VAT or GST or whatever they call it over there), so there's a chunk of the difference, + you also have heavy import duties on anything not made in Europe.
> 
> Here in Australia, our tax is 10%, which is reasonable, while in the US if you buy something from another state, you pay no sales tax, but if you live in New York and buy from B&H, you have to pay around 8-9% state sales tax on top of the price?
> 
> ...



This is why I love America and our capitalistic ways.

On another note, about price of the 5D, The Yen is strong right now. Someone yesterday pointed out that the price in yen of the 5Dii at launch when converted from the $2,699 US price is the same as the current yen conversion of the $3,499 US price. So we can thank our lousy economies for the price going up. I don't think Canon is trying to gouge us all. I think they are sticking to their normal Japanese price for this line of cameras, and have forgotten how weak the rest of the world's currency has become. And time will tell whether they are able to keep the price this high for long, especially with Canon's competition offering their camera for less.

Did the Japanese even have an economic crash like everyone else? I don't get the feeling that Japan had any kind of inflated housing industry like the US did.


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## thure1982 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

I'm gonna buy one either way......

I can afford the 5D3 many times over but I'm a cheapskate and I don't pay more for something that I can pay less for.
So you guys in USA think your ridiculously low price is to complain about?

This is just crap!

I called a Swedish reseller that is one of the big once.
We chitchatted for a while about the 5D3 and then I asked about preorder price.

31 000 Swedish kronor

translated

4 654.805 U.S. dollars


----------



## JonS (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

Just (in the UK) had a chat with Wex Photo, a big online dealer here. I asked about the 5D II price drop, and the comment came back: 'Dont know about that, they only put it up last week'


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## bigblue1ca (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Canon thinks people will pay the price for the 5D III otherwise they wouldn't have priced it the way they did. If the 5D III doesn't immediately sell like hotcakes the price will come down sooner than later. But, given the amount of people putting in pre-orders for one or two, I don't think Canon will have a problem with present sale price for a while. Especially keeping in mind, a number of people who were looking at buying the 1DX are now looking at the 5D III instead, and the 5D III at $3500 is cheap compared to the 1D X.


----------



## CJRodgers (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



bigblue1ca said:


> Canon thinks people will pay the price for the 5D III otherwise they wouldn't have priced it the way they did. If the 5D III doesn't immediately sell like hotcakes the price will come down sooner than later. But, given the amount of people putting in pre-orders for one or two, I don't think Canon will have a problem with present sale price for a while. Especially keeping in mind, a number of people who were looking at buying the 1DX are now looking at the 5D III instead, and the 5D III at $3500 is cheap compared to the 1D X.



Unfortunately i think your right.


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## Steamy (Mar 2, 2012)

Did the Japanese even have an economic crash like everyone else? I don't get the feeling that Japan had any kind of inflated housing industry like the US did.
[/quote]

Yes they had theirs long before ours and their economy has been stagnant or even in deflation for two decades. Bank interest rates have been at zero for most of that time...


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## traveller (Mar 2, 2012)

£2999 in the UK, but then pre-order prices tend to be high over here compared to the USA. I was trying to get the money together in anticipation of £2399, perhaps I was being a touch optimistic (but that's the pre-order price for the D800)! I guess I'll have wait for a few months to save up a little more, prices will probably come down a tad in the meantime. On the other hand, Canon kit seems to be getting more and more expensive (£2299 for the 24-70 f/2.8 LII?!!! ), perhaps it would be cheaper in the long run to switch to Nikon... I would also be able to use a decent wide angle zoom for my landscape work (come on Canon!). 

Perhaps Canon's strategy is to follow up the marketing success of the "X" designation by copying Sigma. Release the 5D MkIII at a much higher than expected price for a year and then re-release it at a much lower price as the "5D MkIII Merrill" .


----------



## BlueMixWhite (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



bigblue1ca said:


> Canon thinks people will pay the price for the 5D III otherwise they wouldn't have priced it the way they did. If the 5D III doesn't immediately sell like hotcakes the price will come down sooner than later. But, given the amount of people putting in pre-orders for one or two, I don't think Canon will have a problem with present sale price for a while. Especially keeping in mind, a number of people who were looking at buying the 1DX are now looking at the 5D III instead, and the 5D III at $3500 is cheap compared to the 1D X.



Maybe in the state, it still consider reachable assuming for someone with a monthly salary of usd5k. But some other country, it is price double of a person earning 5k.


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## fred_jb (Mar 2, 2012)

Actually import duty is zero on camera bodies in the UK. In the UK purchase tax (VAT) is 20% compared to the 8-9% which US buyers are supposed to pay (even when buying out of state), and that extra UK purchase tax does fund some useful stuff like a universal high quality health service so I'm not complaining about that. 

In my experience most prices come to US dollar price x exchange rate (approx 1.5 to 1) then plus 20%. This works out fairly accurately for a lot of photography kit and if applied to the 5D III at $3500 should result in a UK price of £2800. 

Unfortunately Canon have seen fit to sting us for an extra £200 on top of a fair exchange rate by setting the price at £3000. While I was prepared to find about £1000 plus the proceeds of selling my 5D II - finding nearly 60% more than that (£1700) is not going to happen. 

I am sure this is true for many non-pro users in the UK. I and am sure many others bought the 5DII when the body price went below £2000 and I think this is a price point which it is very difficult to justify going above. The current 5D III is a class above the 5D II in terms of price though I'm not sure that the camera itself is.

Fred


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## biggles_no1 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

The really annoying thing about it all . . . 

The US price is $3,500 and the UK price is £3,000 

but if you do the currency conversion currently $3,500 = £2210

Is the government really taking almost a third of the price in tax?
It's not fair because I could just about justify £2210.


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## erakepio (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

not shocked at the price, $3500 was about what I was expecting...however UK retailers are asking for £3000...pretty much £1000 more than the conversion and only £500 short of the US $3500.

bit much for me to be honest. I'll wait and see what happens in the summer.


----------



## MazV-L (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



00Q said:


> 6) If you actually need a 5DIII and really wanted to buy it now for pro use. Well done. You fall into the 5% of population here on this forum. Your opinion and rant is valid.



Somebody's had a bad day or they're just plain rude! Are you implying that this camera is solely for pros and only their opinion matters  
I'm glad that the majority of pros appear not to be so narrow-minded!


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## alberto (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

The Price in Euro for the new Mark III is way up to high. Think Canon screw up us with a Body Price 3299.00€

exp. 3500USD is today ca. 2700 Euro but they ask for 3299.00 this is to high: I keep my Mark II and wait for a price drop.

Thanks Canon


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## Jamesy (Mar 2, 2012)

3.5K is a little steep for this rig - I would have like to see integrated wireless flash control to justify the extra $$$.


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## traveller (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



biggles_no1 said:


> The really annoying thing about it all . . .
> 
> The US price is $3,500 and the UK price is £3,000
> 
> ...



Some of the price differential is tax, but pre-order prices are generally high in the UK, unlike the USA. Give it a few months from first availability and UK prices will drop to closer to US + VAT (tax) rates: 

£2210 + 20% = £2652 (I'm working on your exchange rate calculation here). 

Of course, the D800 preorder price is currently £2399, which is still quite a bit cheaper and we might expect that to shed a couple of hundred by the end of the year as well...


----------



## MarkB (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

I am happy 60D owner and have just not been able to justify the $2k for the 5D knowing new hotness is around the corner. I am more than a little frustrated by the financial plunder that Canon is doing. I have pre-ordered the 5d mark iii but... I am going to watch the pre-order like a hawk and watch for image quality reviews like an eagle as they are going to have to be out of this world to justify the cost imo.

Here are my thoughts....

the Nikon 800 is a better camera for my needs at a better price. The only thing stopping my from switching is the $5k in L glass that I have purchased over the last year in anticipation of a COMPETITIVE mark iii. I know the iii has much better low light (2 stops from the ii in JPEG...which probably means 1.1 ish in RAW) capability, but it does lose out big time for studio/landscape work imo. Its the PRICE that drives me nuts. So many little feature tell me this should be $500 cheaper to be truly competitive. I mean it doesn't even have a built in flash(i know the ii doesn't either) I never use it on my 60D for images...but for remote trigger of my 580 ex ii its insanely useful.

That means I have to buy another off camera flash...was thinking of the 430 ex ii before the announcement to serve as the off camera flash with my 580 ex ii as on camera / trigger. Now they want you to buy the 600 and I would love to IF the 5d mark ii had built in radio trigger so instead. I just can't see $630 (YOUCH) for built in radio trigger that I need another $470 transmitter. $1100 dollars to have a wireless flash with very little other gains? no thanks $250 for the 430 exii makes a LOT more sense imo, but effectively makes the 5d mark iii $3750 imo. Sounds like something for 1dx users on unlimited budgets.

DONT get me started on the $490 they want for the grip. That is double what it should cost?

As soon reviews with image Q ship I might have to rethink. Can get the 800 AND a good lens for about the same price. might cancel my pre-order now. Arg. on the fence. dilemma.


----------



## Jamesy (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

We are faced with similar pricing practices here in Canada (most of the time). The %d3 has launched here at $3799 when our dollar is equal to a U$D.


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## meli (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

Yes & Yes. 

Mk3 seems like a great camera for 2700. Seems like an ok camera for 3k. But asking 3500 is just too much. Coupling it with a grip and a new 24-70 it borders to ridiculous.

I've been with Canon since the 650 came out, now that was a revolution. I wont be selling any equipment in the near future but i will have a look at d800 as soon as it comes out. I wont touch the mk3. 
Its not only the jacked up price, its mainly the stance of Canon as a company. Too few of ideas/innovation , too slow on implementation, too obvious on nerfing down products (5d series), too self assured of their userbase loyalty.

ps. Canon should consider themselves lucky that Nikon went the stupid way with d800. Cant imagine what would happen with a 3k$ 28/5 or 24/6 d800 instead of 36/4 vs the $3.5k 5Dmk3...


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## Harry Muff (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

5D2 it is then. Especially with the rumoured price drop coming. I just can't justify that much of a jump for not that much more.


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## ruuneos (Mar 2, 2012)

baloudim said:


> Price in europe is 3999euro http://www.fotokonijnenberg.be/product/1631461/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-body.html
> It's 5299$ !!!!
> are they crazy!


In (Finland) Rajala Proshop it's only 3799€  http://tinyurl.com/83cbsem For some reason they got 5D2 image for it :/ probably they going to change it soon.


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## JBV (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



biggles_no1 said:


> The really annoying thing about it all . . .
> 
> The US price is $3,500 and the UK price is £3,000
> 
> ...



In Scandinavia is the Norwegian price NOK 29.995,- = $5.342 = £3.367 = €4.045

And yes, it is just the body


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## albron00 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Shut up!.
Point.


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## Angryoak (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?

Yes & Yes


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## jbwise01 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



thure1982 said:


> I'm gonna buy one either way......
> 
> I can afford the 5D3 many times over but I'm a cheapskate and I don't pay more for something that I can pay less for.
> So you guys in USA think your ridiculously low price is to complain about?
> ...



While it seems simple to compare the pricing " injustice" by simply using an exchange rate, that is would be so far from how pricing is actually determined in different countries and markets. The USD price of the camera is based on US consumer purchasing power, the exchange rate and fair market value. 

It's not fair but hey, if you think that US consumers are getting a great deal, go ahead and exchange your money, buy the camera from a US seller , and see what price you end up paying. After you do this and pay about an extra $1000 USD you'll understand the price and exchange rates don't work out that way. It's all based on relative purchasing power... Not the actual exchange rates. 

For those interested in market pricing strategy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity


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## K-amps (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

Such a nice offering; Why did they have to ruin it with that pricing... Why give Nikon more Market share? Why Canon Why?


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## CJRodgers (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



Harry Muff said:


> 5D2 it is then. Especially with the rumoured price drop coming. I just can't justify that much of a jump for not that much more.



I feel the rumored price drops will be dissaspointing, probably not even reaching xmas sale prices. With so many people saving to go FF, but waiting for this annoucment and now realising its just too much money, I think the 5d mkii will be in demand again. The 5d mkiii has protected the price of the 5d mkii so well that it doesnt really need to drop its price at all.


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## Angryoak (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



erakepio said:


> not shocked at the price, $3500 was about what I was expecting...however UK retailers are asking for £3000...pretty much £1000 more than the conversion and only £500 short of the US $3500.
> 
> bit much for me to be honest. I'll wait and see what happens in the summer.



Well in Australia they want $4399 for a pre-order. Remember that every $1AUD= $1.08US. This company is obviously either ripping us off, or can't implement a basic currency hedging strategy. 

Very unhappy & very pissed off!!!!


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## noisejammer (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

To be fair, this is about $200 above the introductory price of the 5D2 and probably doesn't take into account the depreciation of the USD against the Yen. Nevertheless, I'll be using my 5D2 for the next while and if Canon Canada doesn't get its pricing and availability in line with the US, my order for a 1DX will be cancelled too.

Re the price in Norway.... that's simply absurd. Fly over to the US and get one from a low-sales-tax place. You will save money


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## alipaulphotography (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

I could fly to the US, have a mini holiday in New York and pick up the 5DMKIII for the same price as buying it in the UK.

Question - Has anyone ever done this and how did they avoid customs?

Seems like a pretty tempting idea!

EDIT - just to clarify I dont have a massive problem with the price and I can pay it off with a few weddings this summer. But a free trip to the US does sound tempting!


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## studio1972 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



alipaulphotography said:


> I could fly to the US, have a mini holiday in New York and pick up the 5DMKIII for the same price as buying it in the UK.
> 
> Question - Has anyone ever done this and how did they avoid customs?
> 
> Seems like a pretty tempting idea!



As long as it's just 1 camera, surely there would be no problem (practically speaking rather than legally), tourists do tend to carry cameras around with them after all.


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## CJRodgers (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



alipaulphotography said:


> I could fly to the US, have a mini holiday in New York and pick up the 5DMKIII for the same price as buying it in the UK.
> 
> Question - Has anyone ever done this and how did they avoid customs?
> 
> ...



I would like to do this aswell but then it would be pain to get it fixed under warrenty if something went wrong.


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## darrengreer (Mar 2, 2012)

*Any Rumors on 5D Mk II Price Drop $ Figures?*

There is no way in heck as an amateur I'll be able to justify the mark III, but I'm probably going to buy the mark II, but not sure when it will be safe to do that. I've found a good price here:

http://bestpricephoto.com/h/product_info.php/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-211-megapixel-digital-camera-body-p-17452?csv=gg&osCsid=bf0b926da9798ef2fae7a536460da34e

But, do we expect it to drop further than that?


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## nighstar (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*

i will probably end up buying the Mark III for $4,200 AUD, but i won't be the least bit happy about the price! the only reason i even can is because my S.O. is an awesome person who's ok with me paying him/us back. :-[

to be honest, i would be completely happy with "just" a Mark II if it weren't for the AF. i need fast AF (and low light performance) for animal photography and nothing else i own can do it right. my miss rate is utterly frustrating. so that, and pretty much that alone, is my reason for forking out $$$$. everything else is gravy.


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## nex-s (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Why wouldn't we complain? 5D mk II costs ~1500 pounds, 5D mk III will cost around ~2500 pounds. Ridiculous.

Even more so when you consider the evolution. If Continues like this then you'll pay 4500$ for your next 5D or whatever only because it will have an even more improved sensor or smth. SO WHAT? SO WHAT THAT IT IS IMPROVED? You don't charge people for something that is improved over a several year old camera or anything else for that matter. If everyone would make the prices like Canon do now with these new releases, then your VW Golf 10 will cost you 5 times more in the future than it does now. (considering the value of money doesn't change). So where is the logic? If I buy a laptop with an i7 processor now for 1500$ ir whatever and in 4yrs the same laptop with the new generation processor will cost me 2500$?!?!?! Just because it's evolving?! That's just absurd! And that is exactly what everyone is complaining about. If you are happy with the price now, don't be surprised the next 5D will cost you the same 30% more than this mk III one when it comes out. In the end we'll pay more than twice as much for cameras than we do now just because they have evolved... Basically, we shouldn't pay the same price for old gear after it's been out there for several years...


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## necator (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



jbwise01 said:


> It's not fair but hey, if you think that US consumers are getting a great deal, go ahead and exchange your money, buy the camera from a US seller , and see what price you end up paying. After you do this and pay about an extra $1000 USD you'll understand the price and exchange rates don't work out that way. It's all based on relative purchasing power... Not the actual exchange rates.



The problem is: Canon refuses to repair foreign cameras (and lenses and so on) which are not from the same country. (Well, and if laws forbid that, they'll send it over the big pond for repair ... have some happy moths waiting). Not to mention warranty. They do this, since (at least for Europeans) you people in the US really get the GREAT DEAL. Really.


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## nighstar (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

sorry, but this made me laugh...


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## fifthblade (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

I have no problem with the $3499 rrp, I do have an issue with the UK retail of £2999 though.
Which at today's exchange rate would make it $4755US.

I just don't see how its justified for UK residents to be expected to pay an extra $1256US for the exact same product. But its hard to blame Canon for something that happens with every manufacturer on every electrical item, in nearly every store in this country.
We pay through the nose on pretty much everything, our wages are considerably lower than most of the rest of Europe and our costs of living considerably higher.

So consider this more of a general 'Rip-off' Britain moan than a 'angry at the 5dmk3 price' one.

I'm still hopefull for Amazon.co.uk really, 
They routinely sell Apple products in the UK at far less than the Apple Discounted Education or pro account rate.
I'll wait until they list the body and see if the situation improves.


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## caMARYnon (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



thure1982 said:


> 31 000 Swedish kronor
> 
> translated
> 
> 4 654.805 U.S. dollars






jbwise01 said:


> While it seems simple to compare the pricing " injustice" by simply using an exchange rate, that is would be so far from how pricing is actually determined in different countries and markets. The USD price of the camera is based on US consumer purchasing power, the exchange rate and fair market value.
> 
> It's not fair but hey, if you think that US consumers are getting a great deal, go ahead and exchange your money, buy the camera from a US seller , and see what price you end up paying. After you do this and pay about an extra $1000 USD you'll understand the price and exchange rates don't work out that way. It's all based on relative purchasing power... Not the actual exchange rates.
> 
> ...


In Romania 16 000 RON means 3.680 EURO or 4.878 US$ ... so, jbwise01, just empty words


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## Axilrod (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

Yeah I'm kinda fed up with people complaining about prices too, but I'm not going to tell them to shut up. I've spent the last month trying to tell people that $3500 was accurate and what I noticed was, people didn't really use reason. It boiled down to this:
1) Anyone that couldn't/wouldn't pay $3500 didn't want it to be $3500 
2) Anyone that could/would pay $3500 didn't care

It sucks when you really want something and it's released and not in your price range, but come on it's not like no one saw this coming! The price has been up for a month, and it's interesting that people welcomed and accepted every single spec except the price. "Oh well the rest of the list looks good but the guy must have misheard/misread the price." or "that's gotta be the kit price"--- even though that would put the body within a couple hundred bucks of the 5DII, which would be foolish. I even saw someone suggest $3500 was the price with the 24-70 II, which seriously made me laugh so hard I was almost crying.


----------



## scubasteve03 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Any Rumors on 5D Mk II Price Drop $ Figures?*



darrengreer said:


> There is no way in heck as an amateur I'll be able to justify the mark III, but I'm probably going to buy the mark II, but not sure when it will be safe to do that. I've found a good price here:
> 
> http://bestpricephoto.com/h/product_info.php/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-211-megapixel-digital-camera-body-p-17452?csv=gg&osCsid=bf0b926da9798ef2fae7a536460da34e
> 
> But, do we expect it to drop further than that?




STAY AWAY from that website. Look at it on resellerratings.com. You will never get your camera from them at the agreed to price. It's well known scam. 
I think the 5d mk ii will get down to $2k new, so hopefully we can find them used for around $1700 when people start selling off theirs to upgrade.


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## caMARYnon (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



Axilrod said:


> Yeah I'm kinda fed up with people complaining about prices too, but I'm not going to tell them to shut up. I've spent the last month trying to tell people that $3500 was accurate and what I noticed was, people didn't really use reason. It boiled down to this:
> 1) Anyone that couldn't/wouldn't pay $3500 didn't want it to be $3500
> 2) Anyone that could/would pay $3500 didn't care
> 
> It sucks when you really want something and it's released and not in your price range, but come on it's not like no one saw this coming! The price has been up for a month, and it's interesting that people welcomed and accepted every single spec except the price. "Oh well the rest of the list looks good but the guy must have misheard/misread the price." or "that's gotta be the kit price"--- even though that would put the body within a couple hundred bucks of the 5DII, which would be foolish. I even saw someone suggest $3500 was the price with the 24-70 II, which seriously made me laugh so hard I was almost crying.


Agree 100%. But what you say about almost 5k US$ for 5D3 ?


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## almograve (Mar 2, 2012)

ruuneos said:


> baloudim said:
> 
> 
> > Price in europe is 3999euro http://www.fotokonijnenberg.be/product/1631461/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-body.html
> ...



Get yourself a nice airplan ticket to NYC with your girlfriend and a couple hotel nights. You'll enjoy NYC, a game at the Madison square garden and then you go to B&H and you buy everything you need. Overall you have spent the same amount of money and you are HAPPY.
That's what I do.


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## GoldenEagle (Mar 2, 2012)

[quote author=SRHelicity]
We, as consumers, should demand more. I still maintain that the 5D3 should be <= $3k. I'm not a professional, nor do I make big $$, so $3500 is a significant chunk of change for me. If I had a 5D2, I couldn't see myself justifying spending $3500 (+ tax) for the 5D3. I currently have a 60D, and I've been looking to jump up to FF, but I'd rather get a budget FF (<$2k) with 3-4 fps, less sophisticated AF and AE, etc.; I may end up with a 5D2 assuming the price drops.
[/quote]

Sorry, while a nice sentiment, and perhaps even a popular sentiment, that's not how business works. Consumers don't get to set pricing based on what an item "should be". Pricing of a sole-source product is set by the seller based on what the market (as a whole) will bear. If all preorders are filled in days, the camera is out of stock, and then people are waiting until April/May for a 5DM3 body, Canon might learn that the $3500USD price was too low (from their perspective)!

As a consumer, all you can do is buy or not buy. Begging or wishing might get you some thumbs up on a forum, but will be largely ineffective with the seller.

For a lot of people, a used 5DM2 + a great lens (or 2!) is a far better use of funds.


----------



## SwanSong (Mar 2, 2012)

huge corporations often hedge currency rates so not to disrupt pricing. I'm not sure if that is something practiced by Canon or Nikon but Car companies have been doing it for a long long time. That is how BMWs released in the mid 2000's did not see a relative price increase in the US even though the Euro had rallied more than 50% on the dollar during that time.

older article but i'm sure most of the principles still apply:

http://www.gocurrency.com/international-foreign.htm


I pre-ordered it this morning at Amazon, just in case Canon makes a price decrease or I decide to just bite the bullet. But I am leaning heavily to just buying a 5D2 with a 70-200 2.8: MKII and calling it a day.


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## GoldenEagle (Mar 2, 2012)

T3Heavyshop said:


> This may have been a strategic move. It opens up a huge price gap in the canon line that should be filled.
> 
> 7D: $1700
> next body
> ...



The 5DM2 will stay in the product line, with a current street price of $2300 - $2500. So for the time being it will be "previous body" instead of "next body"...


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## mjp (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *

It always amazes me the ignorance of some people. If you (OP and others who feel it is their right to tell people to 'shut up') don't care about the price, then hurry up to BH Photo or wherever, and pre-order. You just come across as an arrogant fool with a post like that. 

I think the price is perfectly acceptable. The original 5D Mark II sold for around $2700 at launch (please confirm as I don't exactly remember), so an increase is not all that surprising seeing as it has been 3 years. The price will go down so I would try and be patient if the price bothers you. 

Canon will sell truckloads at this price, so I'm sure they are not too concerned about a few who are upset at the current price.


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## Wahoowa (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Any Rumors on 5D Mk II Price Drop $ Figures?*

I thought the retail price of the old 5D Mark II would drop to $1999 as I thought the new 5D Mark III would be $2899. After seeing the price of the new 5D Mark III, I don't think the Mark II will be at $1999. I truly believe it'd be either $2299 or $2399.


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## Axilrod (Mar 2, 2012)

SRHelicity said:


> We, as consumers, should demand more. I still maintain that the 5D3 should be <= $3k. I'm not a professional, nor do I make big $$, so $3500 is a significant chunk of change for me. If I had a 5D2, I couldn't see myself justifying spending $3500 (+ tax) for the 5D3. I currently have a 60D, and I've been looking to jump up to FF, but I'd rather get a budget FF (<$2k) with 3-4 fps, less sophisticated AF and AE, etc.; I may end up with a 5D2 assuming the price drops.



Are you serious?! This ISNT A CONSUMER CAMERA! You "maintain that the 5D3 should be $3k" because that's the price limit you had set in your head and now you're disappointed that it's not. I don't get it, there will always be stuff that people want but can't afford, but usually they just get the next cheapest alternative that fits their budget...but with this everyone is complaining and screaming about how it's not worth it. 

If you don't have the money, they make other cameras that do not cost $3500, I suggest you get one of those. And you can say it's not worth $3500 all you want, but if the thing sells out obviously there are enough people that DO think it's worth it.


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## meli (Mar 2, 2012)

GoldenEagle said:


> [quote author=SRHelicity]
> We, as consumers, should demand more. I still maintain that the 5D3 should be <= $3k. I'm not a professional, nor do I make big $$, so $3500 is a significant chunk of change for me. If I had a 5D2, I couldn't see myself justifying spending $3500 (+ tax) for the 5D3. I currently have a 60D, and I've been looking to jump up to FF, but I'd rather get a budget FF (<$2k) with 3-4 fps, less sophisticated AF and AE, etc.; I may end up with a 5D2 assuming the price drops.



Sorry, while a nice sentiment, and perhaps even a popular sentiment, that's not how business works. Consumers don't get to set pricing based on what an item "should be". Pricing of a sole-source product is set by the seller based on what the market (as a whole) will bear. If all preorders are filled in days, and then people are waiting until April/May for a 5DM3 body, we might learn that the $3500USD price was too low!

As a consumer, all you can do is buy or not buy. Begging or wishing might get you some thumbs up on a forum, but will be largely ineffective with the seller.

For a lot of people, a used 5DM2 + a great lens (or 2!) is a far better use of funds.
[/quote]

I doubt if its really "largely ineffective with the seller"; being the market how it is in both sides of the pond, the competition, and the premium for first time FFers (24-105 pack price, not even mentioning 24-70+grip+flash) i really cant foresee some great Q3-Q4 results for Canon with the current pricing policy


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## jbwise01 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



caMARYnon said:


> thure1982 said:
> 
> 
> > 31 000 Swedish kronor
> ...



No... I am trying to explain that prices cannot be converted using the nominal exchange rate. Economics unfortunately is not that simple. If you want to know why prices have been higher in non US markets than the exchange rate would suggest.

Read this:
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2007/09/pdf/basics.pdf

The simple fact is this.. If non US consumers began purchasing a product priced under their local equivilant exchange rate conversion, the demand in the US would soar, Canon would then raise the US price to discourage arbitrage, or they would lower the prices in local markets until demand was more equal in all markets. Like all products, prices are based on supply and demand. The seller has some things on their side that would let the price stay at a high level longer than the demand vs. supply would suggest, but over tiem, the consumer has the leverage. If you want the price to drop, don't buy ituntil it is a price you think is fair.


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## darrengreer (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Any Rumors on 5D Mk II Price Drop $ Figures?*

Thanks for the feedback on those guys, I'll stay away from them. I agree that the new price of the mark III is probably going to allow Canon to keep the mark II price up :/


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## stu_cj (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Any Rumors on 5D Mk II Price Drop $ Figures?*

It seems that the biggest talking-point about this new camera is the price and how many people will not pay it (along with how we get shafted in the UK )
I really can't see (unfortunately) any price-drop on the Mk2 as it will impact sales of those who were holding off to buy a Mk3 but who are now having second thoughts about it.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a price increase on the Mk2 actually to make people then think that they may as well splash the extra cash on the 3.


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## iFugl (Mar 2, 2012)

I would be happy to pay $3500 for it, heck, even $4000.

Here in Norway, the price is 29.990,- which is exactly $5340

That just makes me sick!


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## Studio B (Mar 2, 2012)

Everyone's so quick to express how displeased they are about the price. Do remember, among other things, that the sensor has been completely redesigned from the ground up.

Once we see images from actual users I believe opinions will change. 

About the new sensor....

"The EOS 5D Mark III features a newly developed Canon full-frame 22.3 Megapixel CMOS sensor that?s designed from the ground up to create high resolution, perfectly detailed images with unprecedented speed and clarity. A full 24 x 36mm, the sensor captures 5784 x 3861 large individual 6.25 µm pixels and has a much-improved S/N ratio resulting in better images from the start. A new photodiode structure with an increased photoelectric conversion rate increases the sensor's sensitivity by approximately 2 stops over previous models, meaning higher ISOs with the lowest noise of any EOS digital camera. And a 2-line 8-channel simultaneous signal readout means speeds of up to 6.0 fps (RAW + JPEG) are possible!"


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## AprilForever (Mar 2, 2012)

Here in the USA:

5Dmk III + 300 2.8 (my main lens) + 2x TC

THAT"S OVER 9000!!!!


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## HurtinMinorKey (Mar 2, 2012)

The price relative to the d800 makes sense. Canon won a lot of market share with the 5d mkII, so they figure they can price a camera which is the same overall quality(with different strengths) above the competition because of switching costs. Canon must feel that 700 is less than the switching cost, and they are probably right.


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## cliffwang (Mar 2, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> SRHelicity said:
> 
> 
> > We, as consumers, should demand more. I still maintain that the 5D3 should be <= $3k. I'm not a professional, nor do I make big $$, so $3500 is a significant chunk of change for me. If I had a 5D2, I couldn't see myself justifying spending $3500 (+ tax) for the 5D3. I currently have a 60D, and I've been looking to jump up to FF, but I'd rather get a budget FF (<$2k) with 3-4 fps, less sophisticated AF and AE, etc.; I may end up with a 5D2 assuming the price drops.
> ...



Agreed! That's why I decide not buying 5D3 for now. I am sad, but no complain. Hopefully the retail price will be around 3K later.


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## Daniel Flather (Mar 2, 2012)

$3799 here in Canada, and I get a 16gb card with it; a Lexar 16 GB PRO 400X CF Memory Card. So Canada has one of the lowest price around (me thinks). 

From the main page here:


From Camera Canada

Canon 5D Mark III Body $3799 (CAD)



Sure I'd like to pay $2999, but no dice. If you want it —pay.


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## AprilForever (Mar 2, 2012)

OVER 9000!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist! So, yes, I am looking forward to the much cheaper 7d MK II, which will retail at a cheap-as-free 2500, probably...


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## CowGummy (Mar 2, 2012)

Although I can't justify paying the money myself at this point in time, I do feel the price is totally fair. You get what you pay for and let's face it, this isn't a Rebel or a Powershot... This is is a pretty pro piece of kit and any professional photographer will recoup the cost for a 5DIII in a couple of months or so (I'm thinking wedding pros here). In which other industry is that possible? I work in the publishing and printing business and when printers have to upgrade their presses it will take a couple of years before they recoup costs, often longer. I also have a friend who runs his own chauffeur driving business. He will only buy Mercedes S-Class cars because that's what the clients expect, but it will take him over a year to recoup on his investment with a new vehicle. 
So pro photographers would not have any issues with paying $3500, it's those of us that don't earn big bucks with our photography (myself included) that will be upset about the high price. I mean how many of us here drive a new S-class Mercedes?... So by all means bring on the smiting, but I think Canon could have priced it at $4000 and it would still sell by the truck load.


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## K-amps (Mar 2, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> AprilForever said:
> 
> 
> > OVER 9000!!!!
> ...



Before the 5d3 release there was all this talk of Crop guys upgrading to FF's... with Canon's new pricing, FF'ers are now looking at Crop sensors...


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## awinphoto (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Any Rumors on 5D Mk II Price Drop $ Figures?*



scubasteve03 said:


> darrengreer said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way in heck as an amateur I'll be able to justify the mark III, but I'm probably going to buy the mark II, but not sure when it will be safe to do that. I've found a good price here:
> ...



bait and switch, stay away


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## awinphoto (Mar 2, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> The price relative to the d800 makes sense. Canon won a lot of market share with the 5d mkII, so they figure they can price a camera which is the same overall quality(with different strengths) above the competition because of switching costs. Canon must feel that 700 is less than the switching cost, and they are probably right.



If you make it, they will come, i mean buy


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## awinphoto (Mar 2, 2012)

Now since it appears the 5d2 is staying, at least for the time being, on canon's roster in the lineup, I do wonder if they will jack the prices back up to reflect the tiers of cameras... 7d 1600, 5d2 2600, 5d3 3500, 1dx 6000... Hope so so I can get more on my 5d2 sell to offset my 5d3 purchase.


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## tivoboy (Mar 2, 2012)

some of this, is of course currency related as the Yen is pretty much still at an annual and long term high (much to their industrial disappointment) Some of this, is just retail pricing and there will be a bit of a drop over short term. And some of it IS merited, the camera is a much stronger camera than the MkII.


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## caMARYnon (Mar 2, 2012)

CowGummy said:


> Although I can't justify paying the money myself at this point in time, I do feel the price is totally fair. You get what you pay for and let's face it, this isn't a Rebel or a Powershot... This is is a pretty pro piece of kit and any professional photographer will recoup the cost for a 5DIII in a couple of months or so (I'm thinking wedding pros here). In which other industry is that possible? I work in the publishing and printing business and when printers have to upgrade their presses it will take a couple of years before they recoup costs, often longer. I also have a friend who runs his own chauffeur driving business. He will only buy Mercedes S-Class cars because that's what the clients expect, but it will take him over a year to recoup on his investment with a new vehicle.
> So pro photographers would not have any issues with paying $3500, it's those of us that don't earn big bucks with our photography (myself included) that will be upset about the high price. I mean how many of us here drive a new S-class Mercedes?... So by all means bring on the smiting, but I think Canon could have priced it at $4000 and it would still sell by the truck load.


I think you don't want to understand ... 3500 maybe 4000 US$ for 5d3 is ok but you could pay 5000 ?


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## Axilrod (Mar 2, 2012)

The price shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, as the price was posted on CR several weeks ago, and it was suggested that it would be over $3k a month ago. Everyone believed the specs but chose to ignore the price. I could understand the disappointment if CR had said it was going to be $2500, but that wasn't the case. The price wasn't any higher or lower than predicted, so it shouldn't really be a shock to anyone..


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## Kliphten (Mar 2, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> The price shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, as the price was posted on CR several weeks ago, and it was suggested that it would be over $3k a month ago. Everyone believed the specs but chose to ignore the price. I could understand the disappointment if CR had said it was going to be $2500, but that wasn't the case. The price wasn't any higher or lower than predicted, so it shouldn't really be a shock to anyone..



The price was a rumor, just like the rest of the specs were. Now that it is official, we are voicing our opinions. If we did earlier, everyone would just tell us to chill as the price was not official.


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## birdman (Mar 2, 2012)

I am extremely happy with its $3,500 price point. Now I can get top dollar for my used 5d2 and either get this or the "other" DSLR in this "general" price range. 

I am disappointed with MP count, no USB 3.0, no AF on video, and a few other quips. I think they could have done a little better for $3,500, but who am I to judge this?

I am a landscape/street photographer and cannot see a reason to upgrade, really. I will wait on reviews and see how much I still love my 5d2. It's been phenomenal. 

Its funny how high are standards have gotten, relatively speaking. I am not immune to it, that's for sure.


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## Quasimodo (Mar 2, 2012)

I have not had the chance to read all the post in this thread, so sorry if I repeat anything you have heard before. 

The price might be shocking, but I just saw the price in Norway (29995 NOK) and did a exchange search to the current dollar; 5.342,5... It is stiff; but the specs are so close to the 1DX that one could be tempted to see it as cheap 1DX


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## biggles_no1 (Mar 2, 2012)

I have seen quite a few comments suggesting that Pro photographers have no problem paying the high prices and its only the amateurs and dreamers who have issues with it. 

Personally I have a hard time understanding that. Isn't Pro photography a business? And isn't it the function of a business to make as much profit as possible, i.e. make as much money for as little outlay as can be managed? Maybe some people think paying more for your kit makes you more of a "Pro" than others? I dont know. 

Some justify the price by saying things like "yeah but look the technology is improving and all that costs big bucks, look at what they did with the sensor and what about R&D for the 5D Mark IV? etc . . ." It's my observation that in practically every other area technology is getting more and more sophisticated while also getting cheaper and cheaper.

And I am not just talking about mainstream high volume items where shear numbers enables pricing to be very low. I have other niche hobbies like music recording and amateur radio. In amateur radio the hot thing right now is Software Defined Radio. Incredible and previously unheard of power possible through hugely more powerful A/D chips while being comparably cheaper than the tech it replaces. And that is all done in a niche market that is much smaller than the intended customer base for the 5D. R&D for this tech is currently progressing at a very rapid pace.

I dont think that the problem is just the price being £3000 its also about the perceived value for money in a world where more sophisticated tech is getting increasingly cheaper.

Just my 2 cents 

Jason


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## dswatson83 (Mar 2, 2012)

The problem Canon has with pricing and sales will not be the Mark III. Most willing to pay $3000 will figure out a way of getting $3500. But for $700 more than the Mark II, the Nikon D800 is tempting. Personally I prefer the Mark III to the D800 (I prefer to have low light abilities and speed than MP), but the D800 is a more modest upgrade from current 5D mark II owners and offers improvements everywhere if you don't mind switching.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 2, 2012)

Will they at least kit it with the 24-70 II instead of just the somewhat ill-performing 24-105L? If they kit it with the 24-70 II for a big discount it would make up a bit for somewhat shocking $3500 body price tag. If not, then that combo becomes pretty out of this world.


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## Studio B (Mar 2, 2012)

biggles_no1 said:


> I have seen quite a few comments suggesting that Pro photographers have no problem paying the high prices and its only the amateurs and dreamers who have issues with it.
> 
> Personally I have a hard time understanding that. Isn't Pro photography a business? And isn't it the function of a business to make as much profit as possible, i.e. make as much money for as little outlay as can be managed? Maybe some people think paying more for your kit makes you more of a "Pro" than others? I dont know.



Jason, for a Professional Photographer it's not so much about "as little outlay as can be managed" as it is ROI or Return on Investment and how long that will take. In some markets a ROI for this body is a day, in other markets one can expect a ROI for a digital back in a day.

See attachment


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## Maui5150 (Mar 2, 2012)

dswatson83 said:


> The problem Canon has with pricing and sales will not be the Mark III. Most willing to pay $3000 will figure out a way of getting $3500. But for $700 more than the Mark II, the Nikon D800 is tempting. Personally I prefer the Mark III to the D800 (I prefer to have low light abilities and speed than MP), but the D800 is a more modest upgrade from current 5D mark II owners and offers improvements everywhere if you don't mind switching.



Depends on what you are considering upgrade... 

In terms of cost, Nikon is a smaller jump, and yeah, you get a bunch more pixels. In terms up upgrade, IQ and ISO on the Canon look very very good from the early shots, and ISO 25,600 versus 6400??? 

I think the Nikon might have a little bit better metering, but in terms of AF and ISO, these look stellar for Canon, especially if low light is necessary... like a wedding photog needing to shoot in a church. 

I think in the end, the Nikon is an easier "step" for some to make, but the Canon is the "bigger" step in terms of quality. Canon also appears to be faster FPS as well. Not surprising given the MP difference, but I think side by side, Nikon gets Metering, MP, and maybe some small video, but Canon kills it in ISO, IQ and AF seems like it may be a win as well


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## XanuFoto (Mar 2, 2012)

People who come in here an say they are moving to D800 fall in these categories. 

1) They own a entry level Canon with a kit lense and can move over because they do not have an investment in L Lense.
2) Just get carried away with mega pixels the same way they got swayed when the MKII came out with 21 MP
3) Are generally not Top pros because most good photographers do not get swayed one way or the other every six months. 

It all depends what you want. I you want a solid all round camera that will be above avarage in various deciplines like Sport, Events (weddings), Fashion, Landscape then this camera is good bang for the buck. If you are focused just on Landscape/Fashion then the D800 makes sense. If you are strictly sports then get the 1DX or D4. I my slef want to dabble in everything and for me the 5D MKIII makes sense.


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## unfocused (Mar 2, 2012)

Fascinating to me: One thread of people "hugely disappointed" by the price, another thread of people discussing the best source for pre-orders. Only time will tell, but it doesn't feel like Canon made a major error in pricing.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Mar 2, 2012)

biggles_no1 said:


> I have seen quite a few comments suggesting that Pro photographers have no problem paying the high prices and its only the amateurs and dreamers who have issues with it.
> 
> Personally I have a hard time understanding that. Isn't Pro photography a business? And isn't it the function of a business to make as much profit as possible, i.e. make as much money for as little outlay as can be managed? Maybe some people think paying more for your kit makes you more of a "Pro" than others? I dont know.
> 
> ...



Pro photography is a business, and its a competitive one. Not all pro's are at the same level of experience - some have been pros for years and easily justify and afford and preorder immediately. Others like myself, are just starting out, and money is tighter, but we still have to make the most prudent decisions on where to place it. And on that level, this year for me is turning out to be both very exciting and depressing because theres so much new stuff, but what can my budget maintain? I really need to evaluate my needs vs my wants vs the potential ROI with what ever moves i make. I'm staring my second year as a pro, and working on a 7d. I know I need to move to full frame, but I'm also intent on the goal of doubling my 2011 income (from 14K to 28K. And while the mkiii might grant an immediate gain in image quality, will it lead to more paying jobs than investing in speedlights, pocket wizards and modifiers? Which comes first? My art photography would get a huge boost from either the mkiii or the d800, but the ROI on art would never justify the purchase. For events/portraits/weddings though, it will be very hard indeed to compete with other togs using systems that provide both higher ISO than I can attain, and cleaner shots at that high ISO than I can attain. Even with a bunch of speedlights, if you can shoot at 25600 ISO, and have it be cleanerr and less noisy than what I can do at 3200 ISO, then I'm kind of stuck only taking jobs in well lit places, or lowering my prices, or offering more perks and service - all of which eats away at my bottom line. 

In short, the decision to spend $3500 on a body is not an easy one, pro or not. With that said, it is on my list of goals to have one of these by fall!


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## MikeHunt (Mar 2, 2012)

Canon Inc. obviously read this blog on a daily basis, because the online CR Polls had $3500 in at the top price with the consensus firmly centred on $3000

Can you blame Canon for giving customers what they asked for??


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## APBPhoto (Mar 2, 2012)

I understand the $3500 price for the camera and I am willing to drop down the cash this spring.
But I really don't get $500 price for the battery grip, it is about twice as much as the current grips for a extra buttons.
My fingers can reach the controls on my camera fine with my current grip, so was someone out there asking for more stuff on the grip?


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## DavidRiesenberg (Mar 2, 2012)

That doesn't work that way. For low end models, sure, but at the 5Ds place in the market, the actual manufacturing and parts cost is only a very broad, general starting point and not at all an indication of the final price. 3.5K is what Canon's research indicated is the ideal starting point in terms of price/volume. It could just as easily been 2.5K or 4.5K without any change to hardware. Heck, if they are selling the 5DIII for 3.5K, I have no doubt they could sell the 1DX for 4K and still turn a profit.

As for the "discounts" you mentioned, even then it doesn't add up.
Rate Button - 0. The button itself might cost as much as a penny but now they'll have to make a new set of molds.
FPS - Perhaps, but the lower quality mirror box parts do not amount to 150$ savings. Maybe 50$. Maybe.
Video - 0. The R&D is already done and removing software does not give you any savings.
AF Points - Perhaps a negligible discount as the cost of manufacturing the chips is pretty much identical.

And then you have to take into account that we'll be talking about a second production line and extra costs in logistics for both Canon and the vendors. The bottom line is that from a hardware point of view, there is very little justification to produce a baby 5DIII. I'm not saying it won't happen, but if it will it will be _*marketing driven*_ and not technology driven. And that doesn't take into account that they are keeping the 5D2 in production for a while at least which at 2K is one hell of bargain for what you get.


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## XanuFoto (Mar 2, 2012)

I look at this way.

Due to the improved AF if I am able to get 20% more keepers then I am willing to pay more. Due to the high ISO I am able to get more business because now I am allowed in places where flash is not allowed, I am willing to pay the higher price. If I am to get some better sealing which helps me take risks in bad weather to get "That shot" then I am willing to pay more. If I am able to nail that extra great sporting shot due to the better AF and fast FPS then I am willing to pay a liitle etc.


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## RC (Mar 2, 2012)

One more option needed: "Wait a while for the 5D III to drop"

I figure I'm at least a year away until I have the funds for a new body anyway and I do want the 3 over the 2. Hopefully the price will drop below 3K.


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## JPL_1020 (Mar 2, 2012)

This an introductory price and it was anticipated to be high just like any new products introduced. If you're complaining about the high price, then wait for a price drop in a year or so. In the meantime, go and take pictures out there. Yes, new features are convenient and nice, BUT it's NOT going to change how you shoot. 

If you're able to wait this long, then you should be fine for another year until you can afford it.


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## awinphoto (Mar 2, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> biggles_no1 said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen quite a few comments suggesting that Pro photographers have no problem paying the high prices and its only the amateurs and dreamers who have issues with it.
> ...



I couldn't agree more... I've been a pro for the last 7 years and just recently I got a second body. Like you I used the 7D professionally for almost 2 full years exclusively and recently got a 5d2 which I plan on liquidating to get the 5d3. Unless you are one of the top 5% of pro photographers, things aren't always glamourous... the more gear you get, the more overhead you occur, the more overhead you get, the more ROI really becomes important... Then you got fierce competition, you got clients in a down economy slashing budgets let alone advertising budgets, or struggling families deciding if they can afford you to do their pictures... Heck I have a client who is having a wedding in lake tahoe trying to negotiate lower wedding photos... Really? If you are having a wedding in tahoe, you can afford photos. We got to do what we got to do in order to put food on the table, a roof over our families heads, and keep our book keepers and IRS happy and off our backs... It is what it is. As for me I plan on picking one up as soon as possible (and a few clients checks come in).


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## awinphoto (Mar 2, 2012)

JPL_1020 said:


> This an introductory price and it was anticipated to be high just like any new products introduced. If you're complaining about the high price, then wait for a price drop in a year or so. In the meantime, go and take pictures out there. Yes, new features are convenient and nice, BUT it's NOT going to change how you shoot.
> 
> If you're able to wait this long, then you should be fine for another year until you can afford it.



If you're expecting the price to drop within a year, you're probably sadly mistaken... 18 months, maybe you'll start seeing rebates, maybe...


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## hhelmbold (Mar 2, 2012)

The only thing that I am disappointed with is that the 5D MkIII get's announced and released in the same month and we have been drooling in anticipation for the 1D X for over 4 months now ;D


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## KHAWACHEN (Mar 2, 2012)

Me too. I just couldn't justify the price  so I cancelled my pre-order on Amazon. 



Kliphten said:


> So it's out. Seems like a great camera, but I'm incredibly disappointed in the price. After about 4 years after the II, the III comes out at a much higher price tag. Now, if you look at Apple, they release products every year that are better spec'ed yet they don't increase the price with each release just because it was better than the last iteration.
> 
> It's expected that technology improves, right? I understand the dollar has weakened over the last few years but this just seems like a ridiculous price increase. Looks like I won't be getting one, not because I can't but because I feel it isn't worth it.
> 
> How's everyone else feel about it?


----------



## kdsand (Mar 2, 2012)

DavidRiesenberg said:


> That doesn't work that way. For low end models, sure, but at the 5Ds place in the market, the actual manufacturing and parts cost is only a very broad, general starting point and not at all an indication of the final price. 3.5K is what Canon's research indicated is the ideal starting point in terms of price/volume. It could just as easily been 2.5K or 4.5K without any change to hardware. Heck, if they are selling the 5DIII for 3.5K, I have no doubt they could sell the 1DX for 4K and still turn a profit.
> 
> As for the "discounts" you mentioned, even then it doesn't add up.
> Rate Button - 0. The button itself might cost as much as a penny but now they'll have to make a new set of molds.
> ...



Yes exactly!
I have worked on assembly line's I've been a fabricator and then management.
I find it quite irritating to hear people state Canon must charge a certain price.

The price for parts & to produce the hardware is much the same from 1 body make to the next. The cost of assembly will be nearly the same. Even the sensor and chips are similar in cost. Having variations if anything cost canon more money. That nice metal body well that probably only cost 10 or 20 dollars. 

The 7 d sensor has been a humongous money maker. Lenses they have also been a great return investment for canon. How many electronic companies can sell the same exact product for 5,10 or even 20 years?
The research and development is yes a high expense. The longer a company can go without retooling well that's all gravy.

So yes the only thing that dictates the price is what the market will bear. Ridiculous the hear people say canon has to defray cost or you get what you pay for.

They can charge a high price now but in the long term it may prove a mistake.


----------



## Axilrod (Mar 2, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> well this is what i call a mass suicide, and i thought that the tech on the D800 was old, lmao look at the metering system on this beauty, no AF on video, black spots(a la 5dmk2), omfg no clean uncompressed hdmi out, wasn't this thing suppose to be a cinema minded kind of HDSLR king, so why the ___ this options aren't there? omg the video from the D800 is crap compared to Canon's but c'mon, at least a proper face lift to justify the price hype madness that is going on at Canon, Jesus this is not Olympus with it's bloated company, this is Canon men i use to have them since i was 15 yo.



Sure I'm a little disappointed about no clean HDMI, but it's better than a 480p signal. I don't think AF for video is realistic with interchangeable lenses, it would be a costly feature that would increase the price even more and considering some people will never use the video feature it would just be a waste. And no, it wasn't supposed to be the HDSLR king of cinema or whatever, the Cinema DSLR is.


----------



## Axilrod (Mar 2, 2012)

Woah ok now I was cool with the price of the 5DIII, but $490 for a friggin battery grip? Have they lost their minds?!


----------



## Bonnau_Photo (Mar 2, 2012)

Kliphten said:


> Bonnau_Photo said:
> 
> 
> > I am hugely disappointed too. But not for the same reasons you are..
> ...



Yes actually I think it is reasonable for the price offered.. The gap is narrowed between it and the 1Dx by a long ways and now it is highly unlikely I will be buying the 1Dx when I can get 2 of these for the same price. 

After I thought about my original post for a minute I realized that I feel the 5D 3 is reasonable and the 1Dx is overpriced for the small gap between them. I am not crazy and want to throw away money and that is what I thought the original post was saying..


----------



## MikeHunt (Mar 2, 2012)

Otter said:


> 00Q said:
> 
> 
> > I'm fed up of reading this forum today and hearing people complaining about the 5DIII pricing. Did you ever think it was going to sell for less than $2500? The prices will be lower when it hits the high street stores when it first comes out. But most importantly,
> ...



Ditto.

So many elites on this site acting as if they really are Pro's.

Today's price announcement was at the TOP-end of the expected range. Members have a right to complain that Canon is seeking to clean-up (prfoitwise) from the early-adopters who have more money than sense 



awinphoto said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > biggles_no1 said:
> ...



Wedding photographers in W.Europe are charging as little as 250/day whilst the lucky ones can make 700-750. That means the have to do 5 or 6 Weddings just to cover the cost on 1 x body, nevermind the rest of their accessories. The marketplace has become too competitive and neuveau riche amatuers are pushing up the price of all Canon products e.g. 24-70 MkII, 5D3 and how about a 600EX + ST-E3 = $1,0000!!


----------



## cliffwang (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Any Rumors on 5D Mk II Price Drop $ Figures?*



scubasteve03 said:


> darrengreer said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way in heck as an amateur I'll be able to justify the mark III, but I'm probably going to buy the mark II, but not sure when it will be safe to do that. I've found a good price here:
> ...



Many people are selling their 5D2 for 1500 on craigslist already. I am very curious what are going to happen in the 5D2 market.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 2, 2012)

MikeHunt said:


> Wedding photographers in W.Europe are charging as little as 250/day whilst the lucky ones can make 700-750. That means the have to do 5 or 6 Weddings just to cover the cost on 1 x body, nevermind the rest of their accessories. The marketplace has become too competitive and neuveau riche amatuers are pushing up the price of all Canon products e.g. 24-70 MkII, 5D3 and how about a 600EX + ST-E3 = $1,0000!!



Why do us amateurs get it in the neck then?? More like the people that nip off to Jessops and buy a base level DSLR and start charging stupidy low prices that destabilise the quality end of the pro marketplace.


----------



## Peerke (Mar 2, 2012)

Perhaps mentioned before, but if US $ 3500,- is too much, how about € 3570,- for us lucky folks in Europe ?

I just hoped the price will be more reasonable in Europe, like with the 5dII, which in the US is $ 2400,- and in Europe (Netherlands) € 1750,-. The same ratio would mean a 5dIII for € 2550,-. 
Why do I have to pay € 1000,- extra or even, why would I pay € 1800,- more than the price of a 5dII? 

I know, the marketing boys did well and the Canon sponsored Pro's talk about at least 2 stops better ISO performance, great AF and more, but for the price of one 5dIII I could buy 2 5dII's or a 5dII and some great glass.

From what I read, the 5dIII looks like a dream camera to me, but for the time being, I will stick to my 2 crop camera's and practice a bit more. Not even the 5dIII will make my skills better :'(.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 2, 2012)

How many times do we have to explain the difference between the current discounted street price of the 5DII and the msrp from Canon??

Why not compare with the current msrp of the 5DII and you will find it a lot closer


----------



## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Mar 2, 2012)

As a semi-amateur, I am still working on mastering my sub $2000 5dII. 5dIII does look good though.


----------



## djw (Mar 2, 2012)

Yes, very disappointed with the release price. I was planning the FF jump and was OK with the 3K price. However at 3.5 I cannot buy one without the feel Canon are just trying to capitalise on the market share the Mark II gave them. 

The Mark3 looks amazing just too rich for my blood ATM-guess Canon will also miss out on the three lenses I was planning to buy. 

Cheers,

David


----------



## kdsand (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



00Q said:


> I'm fed up of reading this forum today and hearing people complaining about the 5DIII pricing. Did you ever think it was going to sell for less than $2500? The prices will be lower when it hits the high street stores when it first comes out. But most importantly,
> 
> 1) Do you NEED a 5DIII?
> 
> ...


*

Pin head*


----------



## D_Rochat (Mar 2, 2012)

MSRP at the time of release,

5D - $3299 usd
5D mark II - $2699 usd (now $2499)
5D mark III - $3499


----------



## djw (Mar 2, 2012)

*Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?*



Angryoak said:


> Well in Australia they want $4399 for a pre-order. Remember that every $1AUD= $1.08US. This company is obviously either ripping us off, or can't implement a basic currency hedging strategy.
> 
> Very unhappy & very pissed off!!!!



The cheapest AU price I have seen is $3865 at Camerapro. Only AU$865 left to drop before the price is OK for me ;-)


----------



## XanuFoto (Mar 2, 2012)

I did think the price was high at first and 

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.


----------



## Kliphten (Mar 3, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> I did think the price was high at first and
> 
> Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
> And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
> ...



This, to me, would make sense if they were both (II and III) introduced at the same time. But they weren't. The II was released about 4 years ago.


----------



## cliffwang (Mar 3, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> I did think the price was high at first and
> 
> Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
> And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
> ...



Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop. Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight. Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?
Supply and demand determine the market price. 3500 might be a right price for the market. However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device. You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.


----------



## randplaty (Mar 3, 2012)

cliffwang said:


> XanuFoto said:
> 
> 
> > I did think the price was high at first and
> ...



Not everything works this way. Certain things improve faster for less money, like RAM and HD space. Certain things improve slower, like monitors or cars. Look at lenses, the lenses are improving but they're also costing a lot more money. You can't expect everything to behave like computers.


----------



## elflord (Mar 3, 2012)

cliffwang said:


> Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop. Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight. Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?



The chances are, you'd pay at least twice as much for the new laptop as you would for the old laptop. 

If you're suggesting that you'd expect _nominal_ prices to stay constant or decrease -- that may have happened with computers, but there is no reason to believe that this is the way it must be for all products. As pointed out in another thread, adjusting for inflation and exchange rate moves, the price has actually dropped slightly (that is, the inflation adjusted price in JPY)



> Supply and demand determine the market price. 3500 might be a right price for the market. However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device. You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.



The fact that they were originally released at different times isn't really relevant, as long as the comparison is between current prices. 

[keeping my Mark II, because I still like my Mark II]


----------



## tivoboy (Mar 3, 2012)

Since the 5d MkII was launched, the yen has appreciated about 30%.. in that period of time, we now have the 5d MkIII but with much better and many more features with the same nominal price, and yet for canon they are getting 30% less in yen. Seems to be a pretty good deal IMHO.

The price of cars continue to go up. 
The price of health care TECHNOLOGY continues to go up
The price of higher education REALLY continues to go up
The price of technology manufacturing continues to go up
The price of movies, continues to go up
The price of high tech devices like binoculars, telescopes, microscopes, continues to go up.

While we might like to think that things like Moores Law as it applies to the development of integrated processors and the commoditization of the chip and derivative computers industry can apply to all things, it simply doesn't. 

Companies take new product launches as an opportunity to RESET market retail pricing relative to medium to long term exchange rate differences thinking that it might get lost in the analysis of the new product buyer.


----------



## cliffwang (Mar 3, 2012)

randplaty said:


> cliffwang said:
> 
> 
> > XanuFoto said:
> ...



I agree some industry improves very slow. However, camera industry have improved a lot, right? I mean camera body, not lenses. I do believe 5D3's cost is lower than 5D2's cost when 5D2 just released. I don't want to argue the $3500 list price. I believe Canon did its homework for the market and think that's the right price. What's the part I don't agree is people comparing the new device and 3 year old device and say it is worth for the extra $1000. I think that not logical.

Some people say the price of many stuff goes up. Think about what kind stuff are them. Please think about inflation and manufacturing cost.

Again, I don't want to argue the $3500 list price. However, I just cannot agree the way people compare the prices of two products from different time.


----------



## capertillar (Mar 3, 2012)

in terms of computer equipment, it simply has to do with economies of scale

the production level of computer components allow massive leaps forward in technology with a very quick reduction in price, like memory cards

however, given that we can only count a handful of companies producing the products at the level we want them to, it's certainly their privilege to charge a premium for their product

just wish that premium was 500 USD less... LOL!


----------



## rmhowie (Mar 3, 2012)

It's simple; if you don't want to pay the price, don't buy it. Why complain about it?


----------



## XanuFoto (Mar 3, 2012)

Kliphten said:


> XanuFoto said:
> 
> 
> > I did think the price was high at first and
> ...


But the MkII is still MRSP'ed at 2499.


----------



## XanuFoto (Mar 3, 2012)

cliffwang said:


> XanuFoto said:
> 
> 
> > I did think the price was high at first and
> ...


Not exactly a great analogy as you cannot template the PC/Laptop industry to specialised Camera companies. The volume of scales are not the same and the CMOS sensor RD is very restricted between Canon and Sony.


----------



## jrista (Mar 3, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> Not exactly a great analogy as you cannot template the PC/Laptop industry to specialised Camera companies. The volume of scales are not the same and the CMOS sensor RD is very restricted between Canon and Sony.



Sensor fabrication defects also affect yield on CMOS sensors much more than they do on IC's. With an integrated circuit like a multi-core CPU, if a defect kills off a core or two, or even part of L2 or L3 cache, manufacturers can usually disable the unusable parts. That greatly reduces the loss due to imperfections in wafers, salvaging "damaged" parts for use as slower or less capable versions. This would apply to CPU's with large on-board caches, multi-core CPU's, GPU's, etc.

When it comes to CMOS sensors, a single defect tends to kill the whole sensor. When it comes to larger full-frame sensors, they start right out making FAR less efficient use of wafer area than smaller sensors, cpu's, gpu's, etc. You can't salvage a sensor etched onto defective wafer area, so they are pure loss. That greatly increases the price of FF sensors over smaller ones. Thats also a significant factor to why medium format cameras are so expensive (the least expensive of which are Pentax's 645D.) MF sensors use wafer space even less effectively, and defect loss is even higher (the greater the sensor area, the greater the chances of losing entire sensors to a single wafer defect.)

Comparing the larger format digital camera market to the laptop or even larger PC market in general is indeed a rather poor analogy. The circumstances and behavior of the two markets differ radically, on many more levels than just CMOS fabrication.


----------



## kdsand (Mar 3, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> Before Nikon or Canon releases a camera they go to Ken Rockwell and they ask him to test them, the best cameras get a Nikon sticker and the less good get a Canon sticker




Ouch
I assume that's sarcastic


----------



## elflord (Mar 3, 2012)

cliffwang said:


> I agree some industry improves very slow. However, camera industry have improved a lot, right? I mean camera body, not lenses. I do believe 5D3's cost is lower than 5D2's cost when 5D2 just released. I don't want to argue the $3500 list price. I believe Canon did its homework for the market and think that's the right price. What's the part I don't agree is people comparing the new device and 3 year old device and say it is worth for the extra $1000. I think that not logical.



What isn't logical about it ? If the other item really isn't worth what it costs, then that's one thing, but judging by 5D Mark II sales, it does seem to be reasonably well priced. If the new one really isn't worth $1000 more, people really will buy the old one instead. 



> Some people say the price of many stuff goes up. Think about what kind stuff are them. Please think about inflation and manufacturing cost.



The JPY went up.



> Again, I don't want to argue the $3500 list price. However, I just cannot agree the way people compare the prices of two products from different time.



The 5D Mark II isn't "from a different time" -- you're talking about it like it's the Canon F1 but this isn't the case at all. We are not comparing the price of the 5D Mk II from 10 years ago. The 5D Mark II is still sold today (it still really is the current model, at least until someone gets a fill on a preorder), and sells in large numbers at a price of $2500. It is true that the announce date is some time back, but it is still a competitor in _todays_ camera market.


----------



## BaconBets (Mar 3, 2012)

At $3500...
Half the people say they are torn because the 5d3 is $1200 more than the 5d2
Half the people say they are torn because the 5d3 performs close to the 1dx for $3000 less
So Canon got it right, the camera is priced perfectly

They took a revolutionary camera, and not only fixed the weaknesses, but brought some of them to flagship level.
This is the best all around camera ever produced, and that's not just specs talking, but the pros who have tested it.

There are 2 groups of people:
1. The fantasy whiners who wade through a sea of contradictions
2. The rest who already have a body (or 2) on order


----------



## tt (Mar 3, 2012)

But the MkII is still MRSP'ed at 2499.
[/quote]

Worth pointing out also - the 5D Mk II might have gone down in retail price you buy it at but the 
MRSP is the same. And that's the price you should insure it at too (for new for old from what I read looking into insuring a 5D). 

For those wanting a discount - you only have to wait 1-3 months based on historic price fluctuations of the 5D MkII I've looked at before you get $100-300 off. 

And those buying them now will be testing it for you whilst Canon smooths out the firmware glitches hehe


----------



## Axilrod (Mar 3, 2012)

There are little, subtle changes in the camera that I think will make $3500 seem even more reasonable. The click wheel on the back is actually fixed, and touch sensitive, which I thought was really cool. Not super high-tech or anything, but definitely cool. Vibration/silent mode is very useful for me, I can't wait to shoot some Astro time lapses with it, can't wait to see what this sensor is capable of "seeing."


----------



## MikeHunt (Mar 3, 2012)

I can appreciate that most potential 5D MkIII candidates find the new price of $3,500 (or £2,999 = $4,700 in the UK) a major setback and of course a huge disappointment. Another thread on CR illustrates that the new 5D3 price is similar to that of the 5D2 when it was announced back on 17 September 2008, in terms of Japanese Yen - which is the 100% consideration for Canon Inc.

Notwithstanding this comparatively high price in USD, AUD, GBP, EUR etc., I truly believe that the new prices by the end of this summer will have fallen back below $3k (or £2.5k), the logic being very simple: the gap between the new 5D is just too big between it and the old 5D which it replaces, as well as the gap between the 5D3 and 7D.

By way of illustration, I bought my new 7D last September for £939 online. I shoot a lot of video and I'd love to do so with a FF body, but here's the acid test: I could buy 3 x 7D's or 2 x 5D MkII's for the price of 1 x 5D MkIII :'( 

Shooting HD video with multiple cameras for a videographer is as important as ISO, DR, NR are for a stills photographer. Now before the purists go off on one, just look at the 22.3MP sensor -> HD video driven resolution on the new 5D Mk III, headphone socket?? separate/manual audio controls in Live View??

A lot of videographers made the 5D Mk II the go-to HD DSLR, plus where would T2i/T3i sales be without 1080p HD recording at selectable rates. The question is will they all want to trade up to the newer more expensive model? Canon is keeping the 5D Mk II for now, presumably at a new soon-to-be reduced RRP of probably $1,999 or less, that is they'll have to discount the current recommended price by about 500 bucks. That will likely entice a lot of current 7D users (who shoot both stills + video) to want to buy an entry-level FF body.

I think Canon are constrained, firstly, by the Yen 300,000 domestic selling price, but secondly, they really don't know where the effective demand is from a price point, so they go high, keep the old model and see what happens. After all, they're not going to be able to satisfy all new demand for the first 3 months anyway (pre-orders, early-adopters etc.), so they can afford to be a bit pricey-now.

Bottom line: unless you really need a new 5D Mk III, wait 6 months and prices may be a lot cheaper (say $2,999)


----------



## richard_mitchell (Mar 3, 2012)

cliffwang said:


> Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop. Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight. Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?
> Supply and demand determine the market price. 3500 might be a right price for the market. However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device. You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.



Interesting analogy, but you are comparing a commodity (computer hardware) vs. a specific hardware brand. It would be better to have compared Canon to Apple.

I would have been happy to see the price at $2999 for the 5D mkIII, but over a three year period, the extra $14/month isn't going to keep me up at night. If nothing else, it simply makes me want to buy it earlier so I might ekk out a few more years with the camera.


----------



## XanuFoto (Mar 3, 2012)

"I'm selling my Mark II and buying a Nikon D800 for $2999"


Out of curiosity I was wondering what sort of lens these 20 respondents had. You are moving to another ecosystem to save on the Nikon camera body. You will take a haircut on your lenses along with the MKII. And will have to spend more money new Nikon lenses and a new computer. Obviously this decision is not because the MKIII is 500 dollars more expensive. Am I missing somethings here?


----------



## Toveri (Mar 3, 2012)

I just recently switched from Nikon to Canon. 

The reason i switched to Canon was for the glass. In my opinion that will give you the best image quality boost for your buck. I too was waiting for the Mark3 but I am still happy with a Mark2 for $2000.

I dont understand all the complaining on the $3500 price tag. If you don't want to spend it... don't. But don't think that $500 will be left in your pocket after your switch to Nikon. Nikon glass is more expensive so it will cost ya more.


----------



## Martin (Mar 4, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> "I'm selling my Mark II and buying a Nikon D800 for $2999"
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity I was wondering what sort of lens these 20 respondents had. You are moving to another ecosystem to save on the Nikon camera body. You will take a haircut on your lenses along with the MKII. And will have to spend more money new Nikon lenses and a new computer. Obviously this decision is not because the MKIII is 500 dollars more expensive. Am I missing somethings here?



24-70 2.8
50 1.4
85 1.8
135 2.0
70-200 2.8 IS II

Yep. I just want to be happy with my system and camera. I just want to be sure that if i am be loyal to one brand it will not disappoint me in future. Nikon never did. I really like their system. Once upon a time I just needed more mpix and iso 100 when d700 was hot in the market, so I decided to switch to Canon and THIS was mistake for me, a serious one. I even stopped taking photos due to 5d2, which i really don't like. And now, canon made a good (standard) AF system and probably nothing more important, selling camera for 3500$? Joke? Campetition has probably better AF, better build quality, more MP (not soooo important for me but...), far better ergonomics, is more customizable, has great flash system, better and more precise exposure mattering has better in-camera mechanics, can take more photos (200K), so far can register more DR, has much higher "real" x-sync, has no banding and visible noise @iso100, me NEFs are better for PP (maybe i am just used to nefs but i dont think this is the reason), is cheaper, more reliable. Hmm am I missing something? I just find Nikon more customer orientated and Canon leaded by accountants and financial managers (how to earn money, giving them almost same thing but let push them to pay more and more). Nikon invents, Canon follows. It's strange that u have to pay for 1series to achieve focus properly. I had a perfect and reliable AF in D300. Why I had to wait for years to have 3500$ good AF (probably). I wait for reviews for final decison bur so far I cant convince myself to stay with Canon.


----------



## jwong (Mar 4, 2012)

Toveri said:


> I just recently switched from Nikon to Canon.
> 
> The reason i switched to Canon was for the glass. In my opinion that will give you the best image quality boost for your buck. I too was waiting for the Mark3 but I am still happy with a Mark2 for $2000.
> 
> I dont understand all the complaining on the $3500 price tag. If you don't want to spend it... don't. But don't think that $500 will be left in your pocket after your switch to Nikon. Nikon glass is more expensive so it will cost ya more.



That might have been true in the past, but recent Canon prices on new hardware is going the opposite way. The 5DIII and 24-70 come to mind. The Canon 200-400 and 100-400 are both expected to cost significantly more than existing versions or their Nikon counterparts. I think most of the frustration that people that view photography as a hobby is that they will be priced out of it if current trends continue.


----------



## EchoLocation (Mar 4, 2012)

Toveri said:


> I just recently switched from Nikon to Canon.
> 
> The reason i switched to Canon was for the glass. In my opinion that will give you the best image quality boost for your buck. I too was waiting for the Mark3 but I am still happy with a Mark2 for $2000.
> 
> I dont understand all the complaining on the $3500 price tag. If you don't want to spend it... don't. But don't think that $500 will be left in your pocket after your switch to Nikon. Nikon glass is more expensive so it will cost ya more.


I absolutely would have agreed with you..... until I saw the 24-70 2.8 II
2300 dollars! 
After that, I thought for sure the 5DIII would be a reasonable price so as to tempt people with the camera then get them to buy expensive glass later... but no.
Now i'm looking at an extra 1000 dollars to have a Canon 5DIII and a 24-70 instead of an 800 with the same.
The recent trend at Canon is really high priced glass(and now camera bodies too,) and I don't see any sign that this will be changing.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 4, 2012)

Martin said:


> 24-70 2.8
> 50 1.4
> 85 1.8
> 135 2.0
> ...



I dont where you are getting your information from but I would start reading/listening elsewhere.

Only series 1 focus properly? Oh dear me you have been lead up the garden path - I suppose you are going to tell us next that the 7D is a lousy camera for sports and the 5DII is useless at weddings.

If that is how you feel I suggest you go back to Nikon before you smell the coffee


----------



## bdeutsch (Mar 4, 2012)

Count me in the undecided category. I'm ready for a new camera and new glass (all my gear is 5-10 years old and VERY well used), so it's either the 5dm3 or the d800. I'm waiting for the reviews and then I'll have to price the glass and camera together. 


Actor Headshots NYC | Gotham Family Photos  | NY Wedding Photos


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## briansquibb (Mar 4, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> Toveri said:
> 
> 
> > I just recently switched from Nikon to Canon.
> ...



Oh please dont make me explain yet again the difference between msrp and street prices. Wait 3 months and you will find the difference disappear like ice in the Grand Canyon in the summer


----------



## unkbob (Mar 4, 2012)

> I even stopped taking photos due to 5d2, which i really don't like.



The 5D2 is such a bad camera it made you quit photography?! LOL that's hilarious, and stupid.


----------



## bornshooter (Mar 4, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> EchoLocation said:
> 
> 
> > Toveri said:
> ...


+1 a couple of months maybe by xmas price will drop and settle then i will pounce lol


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## shuttersound (Mar 4, 2012)

Im new to the photography so i might be wrong but isnt replacement models are supposed to be priced around the older model? For example Apple or even Nikon : They dont mark up THAT much of a replacement model when they added new technology, like better camera and retina display becos its supposed to be replacement model. So if thts the way how Canon wants to price 5D4 or future models, are we expecting the price to go up even higher as the series goes up? :'(


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## Martin (Mar 4, 2012)

> I dont where you are getting your information from but I would start reading/listening elsewhere.
> 
> Only series 1 focus properly? Oh dear me you have been lead up the garden path - I suppose you are going to tell us next that the 7D is a lousy camera for sports and the 5DII is useless at weddings.
> 
> If that is how you feel I suggest you go back to Nikon before you smell the coffee



My information is 100% true, and I got it from my own experience as well as other resources, but mostly based on my exp as said earlier. Hey,I worked with both system and I think that you have only worked with 5d2. The AF there is a mistake, of course it you used almost any Nikon before. Please take even a D300 and go for sports, weddings etc..check it...a new world order will be presented for you (of course i don't compare image quality)



unkbob said:


> > I even stopped taking photos due to 5d2, which i really don't like.
> 
> 
> 
> The 5D2 is such a bad camera it made you quit photography?! LOL that's hilarious, and stupid.



I did not. But taking photos with gear that u hate is a problem. I bought new gear and within 6 months 2 lenses and a body was serviced for 5 times. 5d2 was calibrated 3 times for AF, has problems with light mattering (very underexposed images-for sure it was not my fault, trust me) , 50mm couldn't focus properly (was broken from the begining), 5d2 could not sync @ 1/200-my highest x sync was 1/125. WB in 5d2 was drama, I felt like having a camera which is 10 years old. And that plastic feeling in hand...just did not like the camera. Imagine ur a pro driver and u have a car u hate for many reasons. Would you like to drive? Isn't it all about passion and liking what you do?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 4, 2012)

It might also help if they say offered it in a kit with the 24-70 II instead of just the 24-105 (which I do not want ever again) for a nice big discount, say $500 for the combo. $3500+$2300 for the pairing is a bit nuts. A kit with a big discount would start making the pricing look a bit more sensible.

It would also help if they held off slashing the 5D2 price a bit longer since this will cut resale value of the 5D2 and make the 5D3 seem yet even expensive.


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## briansquibb (Mar 4, 2012)

Martin said:


> My information is 100% true, and I got it from my own experience as well as other resources, but mostly based on my exp as said earlier. Hey,I worked with both system and I think that you have only worked with 5d2. The AF there is a mistake, of course it you used almost any Nikon before. Please take even a D300 and go for sports, weddings etc..check it...a new world order will be presented for you (of course i don't compare image quality)



You are hopelessly wrong in your assumptions about the cameras I have used and the cameras I have. 

A whole new world order from using a D300??? I think not


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## jwong (Mar 4, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> It might also help if they say offered it in a kit with the 24-70 II instead of just the 24-105 (which I do not want ever again) for a nice big discount, say $500 for the combo. $3500+$2300 for the pairing is a bit nuts. A kit with a big discount would start making the pricing look a bit more sensible.
> 
> It would also help if they held off slashing the 5D2 price a bit longer since this will cut resale value of the 5D2 and make the 5D3 seem yet even expensive.



Prices might already be dropping. CanonPriceWatch cites new 5D2 for 2100 from PMI Digital (Profeel) via Ebay. Moving up from APS-C, so I'll be interested to see where the prices go.


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## Radiating (Mar 4, 2012)

Kliphten said:


> So it's out. Seems like a great camera, but I'm incredibly disappointed in the price. After about 4 years after the II, the III comes out at a much higher price tag. Now, if you look at Apple, they release products every year that are better spec'ed yet they don't increase the price with each release just because it was better than the last iteration.
> 
> It's expected that technology improves, right? I understand the dollar has weakened over the last few years but this just seems like a ridiculous price increase. Looks like I won't be getting one, not because I can't but because I feel it isn't worth it.
> 
> How's everyone else feel about it?



Actually Canon has the exact same pricing strategy as Apple. The thing is they are a Japenese company so they opperate in Yen. The 5D Mark II was released at 300,000 Yen, the 5D Mark III was released at 270,000 Yen, which is the first time they've actually introduced a product at a different price than the past version. Intro prices have never varried since the 1990s for a next generation product. So not only are they doing exactaly what you want, but they are offering their first discount in history on this camera. 

Blame a weak US economy and the devaluing of the dollar.


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## erfon (Mar 4, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> There are little, subtle changes in the camera that I think will make $3500 seem even more reasonable. The click wheel on the back is actually fixed, and touch sensitive, which I thought was really cool. Not super high-tech or anything, but definitely cool. Vibration/silent mode is very useful for me, I can't wait to shoot some Astro time lapses with it, can't wait to see what this sensor is capable of "seeing."



That's actually not quite correct. The wheel still physically moves as it does on the Mark II, but now also includes the touch controls for video. And Thank God for that, I hate touch sensitive scrolling. It always makes it hard to select things and would be tough to impossible to use with gloves.


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## kdsand (Mar 4, 2012)

Radiating said:


> Kliphten said:
> 
> 
> > So it's out. Seems like a great camera, but I'm incredibly disappointed in the price. After about 4 years after the II, the III comes out at a much higher price tag. Now, if you look at Apple, they release products every year that are better spec'ed yet they don't increase the price with each release just because it was better than the last iteration.
> ...



You have a point there.

So then the question ishow long unit the economy improves & I can afford any new equipment?
:'(
"Sigh"


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## AprilForever (Mar 4, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Martin said:
> 
> 
> > 24-70 2.8
> ...



The 5D mk II was so bad you stopped taking pictures? A good friend of mine used the 5d MK I (yes, one) for YEARS. He made many large wall-sized prints from it, which look great. He shoots mostly weddings, events, and family stuff, though shoots outdoors. He is wild about the 5d MK II. He absolutely loves it. Yet, it made you stop taking pictures? I find this amusing...

My 7D makes me pretty happy. I remain enthralled with its quality. And, many say that the 5d MK II is much beyond the 7D for IQ for these sort of things (I'm more into birds...). So... anyway...


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## randplaty (Mar 4, 2012)

Martin said:


> XanuFoto said:
> 
> 
> > "I'm selling my Mark II and buying a Nikon D800 for $2999"
> ...



You must not have been shooting for very long. Remember that the 5D original was the only full frame on the market for a long time? People were shooting with D200s and D2xs at that time. Remember than until this past year Nikon didn't even have a 35mm 1.4 prime? And a couple years ago they didn't have a 24mm 1.4 prime? Remember that Nikon still doesn't have 1.2 primes at all? 

Once the D700 came out, the market shifted decidedly toward Nikon. I'll be the first to admit it, from 2008 until now, Nikon has had better bodies than Canon period. But the 5D3 has evened things out. It's going to shift back and forth, but don't give me bull about Nikon just being plain old more customer oriented. That has a really short memory and these companies are much older than that.


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## randplaty (Mar 4, 2012)

richard_mitchell said:


> cliffwang said:
> 
> 
> > Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop. Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight. Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?
> ...



You might get what you want. Historially Canon has always priced itself higher than the Nikon competition but they always drop their prices faster too.


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## bornshooter (Mar 4, 2012)

randplaty said:


> Martin said:
> 
> 
> > XanuFoto said:
> ...


this guys a troll lol stopped taking photos what a dickhead lol he has the 70-200 2.8 mk2 so what body did he use it on?he is full of shite


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## Martin (Mar 4, 2012)

> You must not have been shooting for very long. Remember that the 5D original was the only full frame on the market for a long time? People were shooting with D200s and D2xs at that time. Remember than until this past year Nikon didn't even have a 35mm 1.4 prime? And a couple years ago they didn't have a 24mm 1.4 prime? Remember that Nikon still doesn't have 1.2 primes at all?
> 
> Once the D700 came out, the market shifted decidedly toward Nikon. I'll be the first to admit it, from 2008 until now, Nikon has had better bodies than Canon period. But the 5D3 has evened things out. It's going to shift back and forth, but don't give me bull about Nikon just being plain old more customer oriented. That has a really short memory and these companies are much older than that.



I know exactly what you writing about, however at present Nikon has it's 35 and 24 there's unfortunately no 135. I shoot since Canon G3, Nikon D70 than, Nikon D300 and finally C 5d2. You writing about the past, and I have to admit then the past looked different, but competition never sleeps, and the result can bee seen now. The only thing than Nikon missed a while ago was a MP at affordable price. Tell me who will chose a 5d3 if one has no canon lens? Do you really need ISO beyond 6400? Let's see what reviews and tests bring, but imho D800 is better in almost every aspect. It would be really strange if someone makes a decison based only on producer's past achievements. Take a look at present and the future.


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## Martin (Mar 4, 2012)

> this guys a troll lol stopped taking photos what a dickhead lol he has the 70-200 2.8 mk2 so what body did he use it on?he is full of S___e



Yeah, thx...I see that u cannot accept a different point of view. Probably You prefer when people say about their love to Canon etc. I just tried to be honest and present my point of view. I have experienced both systems and I am frustrated using one of them. I know each system, their raws, ups and downs. For me it was hard to admit to myself that I made a bad decision switching from old system. it is even harder, due to the fact that switching back will be even more expensive. it's nothing to do with trolling and i really don't understand you. I also know a lot of people who are very happy with 5d2, however most of them did not use Nikon before. Most studio photographers use 5d2 for studio work, due to the fact that it's affordable with it's 21 mpix. Me too, but I never liked it. Now the game changes. Canon made a lot of financial based decisons.


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## EchoLocation (Mar 4, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> EchoLocation said:
> 
> 
> > Toveri said:
> ...


I know you know a lot about cameras, gear and whatnot, but I really don't need your help in understanding the difference between MSRP and the actual street price. 
I was hoping(and expecting) that this body would fall in at or below the Nikon offering of 3000 dollars. I was looking forward to waiting a few months and buying this at XMas or early next year hopefully for around 2500-2700 or less. At this point I'm thinking at best this camera will be 3100 for XMas, which is just too much for me to consider spending on a camera.
While this camera will obviously be a step up from the 5DII, it is basically exactly what I expected(with maybe a few more AF points), if I would have been absolutely blown away by some specs or something maybe I'd accept the price a little easier. But nothing in this camera is earthshatteringly impressive or unexpected.

Brian, I know you have a truckload of Canon gear and were obviously going to buy this camera whether it was 2200 or 4000 dollars, so why are you in the "hugely disappointed in the price" thread?
Not everyone who is disappointed in the price is clueless or lacks understanding of pricing, exchange rates, or inflation.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 4, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > EchoLocation said:
> ...



The thing is... considering all the information about the inflation... Is it not right to say some peoples' expectations of the price were pretty much unreasonable?

I'm not saying this thing is cheap by any means but I wasn't really surprised at all about the prices after seeing lenses and bodies of both Nikon and Canon "increase" due to the fluctuation in the Yen. Japan has been trying to prop up the dollars for a few years due to this exact issue. All of the Japanese companies that count on exporting have been hurting big time because of it.


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## Fleetie (Mar 4, 2012)

And again: Why is *this* thread pinned, too?

Unnecessary and inappropriate.


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## Axilrod (Mar 4, 2012)

erfon said:


> That's actually not quite correct. The wheel still physically moves as it does on the Mark II, but now also includes the touch controls for video. And Thank God for that, I hate touch sensitive scrolling. It always makes it hard to select things and would be tough to impossible to use with gloves.



Look at 1:18, doesn't look like the wheel is moving to me. I know it has that lock switch below it, but it doesn't appear to be engaged. 
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Preview by dpreview.com

Then at 1:31 in this video it refers to the wheel as "touch pad"
EOS 5D Mark III Walkaround COOL!


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## amarelux (Mar 4, 2012)

Amazon Japan lists the body-only for ¥322,201, so at the current exchange rate this is $3,940, which makes the US price significantly lower than what it sells for in Japan.


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## XanuFoto (Mar 4, 2012)

Martin said:


> > You must not have been shooting for very long. Remember that the 5D original was the only full frame on the market for a long time? People were shooting with D200s and D2xs at that time. Remember than until this past year Nikon didn't even have a 35mm 1.4 prime? And a couple years ago they didn't have a 24mm 1.4 prime? Remember that Nikon still doesn't have 1.2 primes at all?
> >
> > Once the D700 came out, the market shifted decidedly toward Nikon. I'll be the first to admit it, from 2008 until now, Nikon has had better bodies than Canon period. But the 5D3 has evened things out. It's going to shift back and forth, but don't give me bull about Nikon just being plain old more customer oriented. That has a really short memory and these companies are much older than that.
> 
> ...


Do you really need ISO 6400?? I guess we need it because the D4 has it. See Nikon made a high MP decision. Good for them. I guess they will drive the middle market towards the D4. Maybe tactically its a good move. But i know well known wedding photogs like Lee Morris have publicly stately they woud have love Nikon to come out with a 22-24 MP camera becuase of the nightmare of dealsing with 36MP files. I am pretty sure lots of this technology is in both R&D labs. It the marketing and business divisions decide when and how to release it.


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## tivoboy (Mar 4, 2012)

amarelux said:


> Amazon Japan lists the body-only for ¥322,201, so at the current exchange rate this is $3,940, which makes the US price significantly lower than what it sells for in Japan.



various country pricing isn't really all about one country pricing and then exchange rate conversion. Companies will set an exchange rate level for the YEAR or even SEVERAL YEARS and stick with that. Current retail pricing and competition are actually much better gauges of what future pricing is going to be than simply Country A pricing and then conversion to other countries based on exchange rate. 

Take a look at things like apple. International pricing is WAY higher than even the exchange rate would predict and even though USD$ and apple pricing power might get stronger/weaker, pricing doesn't change, it simply stays same or GOES up regardless.

Take a look at european import car pricing in the USA. Pricing has remained in the same lock-step up over time even though the strength of the dollar over the last 10-12 years has gone down 50%, then UP 100%, and now back down 25% and yet, a mercedes/bmw/audi/ferrari pricing has been simply steadily climbing over that time period.


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## erfon (Mar 4, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> erfon said:
> 
> 
> > That's actually not quite correct. The wheel still physically moves as it does on the Mark II, but now also includes the touch controls for video. And Thank God for that, I hate touch sensitive scrolling. It always makes it hard to select things and would be tough to impossible to use with gloves.
> ...



i've read other reviews though that specifically say the wheel now does _both_. plus he was controlling video volume levels, exactly what the touch sensitiviy was added for.

but think about this: if the wheel is purely touch sensitive, why does it have those grippy teeth on it still? if it was touch only wouldn't you think they'd take those off? teeth don't make sense when you're using a touch wheel that's supposed to be easy to slide your finger around. 



> While the rear command wheel turns as normal, making a clicking sound as it does, it also functions as a touch-sensitive d-pad for silent use when shooting video.


 - hardware zone's review http://www.hardwarezone.com/tech-news-canon-5d-mark-iii-announced-brand-new-22mp-sensor-and-digic-5-processor


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## tt (Mar 4, 2012)

erfon said:


> Axilrod said:
> 
> 
> > erfon said:
> ...



http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/5d3_hd_video_features.htmlp



> Silent control with Quick Control Dial – during actual recording:
> Both new high-end EOS models have a newly-engineered rear Quick Control Dial. In addition to its conventional rotational operation, a new touch-sensitive technology has been developed. This allows the video shooter to make selections of what he or she would like to adjust – ± exposure compensation, shutter speed or aperture adjustment, manual audio recording level, or ISO setting. And, by just lightly tapping on the left or right side of the inner surface of the Quick Control Dial, its new touch-sensitive capability lets users silently make these adjustments, without the audible "click" of normal dial rotation. Two steps are required: make sure Quick Control Dial/silent operation is active in the video shooting menu, and then during recording, press the "Q" button to call-up the on-screen displays. Tap up or down to select the option to be changed, tap left or right to actually change the setting.


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## Mendolera (Mar 4, 2012)

Yeah I was a little disappointed in the Mark III price though I think its worth it price and feature wise. Coming from 4 year old XSI, I planned on going full frame for awhile now most like grabbing the Mark II after the price drop. Since its a hobby for me, I still couldn't quite convince myself to spend the 1750+ or so yet. Especially with upgrades to my house and other expenses.

However I really needed the upgrade and while I think the T4i is right around the corner (anyone notice the price drop straight from Canon on the T3i just like the 5D II) I ordered the 60D for only $630 through the CLP program today.. i know it lacks some prosumer features namely the AFMA but it is still a huge upgrade from where I was at.

I figure in a year from now the Mark II might be quite a bit less maybe even the III around Christmas so thats a possibility. I figure I could still get 450-500 for then for the 60D and im only down a couple hundred.

Plus Ive been really interested in doing some video with a 9 month old son ready to crawl/walk.. Otherwise may even considered a 5D classic

Ive heard people on this forum say it best or along these lines: you can always wait for the next best thing but then you miss capturing memories of your best thing


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## Mendolera (Mar 4, 2012)

Plus who knows with Canons new pricing even the new rebel may come in at $1599 or so :


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## Jamesy (Mar 5, 2012)

Mendolera said:


> Plus who knows with Canons new pricing even the new rebel may come in at $1599 or so :


 ;D Would that include a kit lens???


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## Drama79 (Mar 5, 2012)

> Silent control with Quick Control Dial – during actual recording:
> Both new high-end EOS models have a newly-engineered rear Quick Control Dial. In addition to its conventional rotational operation, a new touch-sensitive technology has been developed. This allows the video shooter to make selections of what he or she would like to adjust – ± exposure compensation, shutter speed or aperture adjustment, manual audio recording level, or ISO setting. And, by just lightly tapping on the left or right side of the inner surface of the Quick Control Dial, its new touch-sensitive capability lets users silently make these adjustments, without the audible "click" of normal dial rotation. Two steps are required: make sure Quick Control Dial/silent operation is active in the video shooting menu, and then during recording, press the "Q" button to call-up the on-screen displays. Tap up or down to select the option to be changed, tap left or right to actually change the setting.


[/quote]

I didn't realise this was how it was going to work when I ordered. This is excellent, excellent news. I can map ISO or audio volume to it. Hooray! Thanks for the share.


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## Martin (Mar 5, 2012)

Say what you want but firstly I was disappointed with the priced bur after I saw a sample pics from both 5d3 and d800 I think I made my decision. Being honest, samples from canon looks like from kind of high mpix good compact camera. All look like after in camera pp, but even with ISO 200??? Where is sharpness, it looks like crap for me in 100%. After seeing those photos from Canon site i thought maybe it's only due to jpg, but i realize that some photos presented there where taken from RAWs and developed (animal). For me it looks very very bad. Then I took a look on d800 samples. Have a close look on hair, eyebrows, lashes. It's not only due to resolution guys. Take a honest look and judge. Unfortunately for me the 1 year with canon adventure probably finishes. I ll wait till some professional and unbiased reviews but from what I see know I think my decision has been already made. Please take a close look on all samples, and then enter a discussion. That's a huge disappointed for me, not even the price. I would be happy to hear some professional voices.


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## rj79in (Mar 5, 2012)

Martin said:


> Say what you want but firstly I was disappointed with the priced bur after I saw a sample pics from both 5d3 and d800 I think I made my decision. Being honest, samples from canon looks like from kind of high mpix good compact camera. All look like after in camera pp, but even with ISO 200??? Where is sharpness, it looks like crap for me in 100%. After seeing those photos from Canon site i thought maybe it's only due to jpg, but i realize that some photos presented there where taken from RAWs and developed (animal). For me it looks very very bad. Then I took a look on d800 samples. Have a close look on hair, eyebrows, lashes. It's not only due to resolution guys. Take a honest look and judge. Unfortunately for me the 1 year with canon adventure probably finishes. I ll wait till some professional and unbiased reviews but from what I see know I think my decision has been already made. Please take a close look on all samples, and then enter a discussion. That's a huge disappointed for me, not even the price. I would be happy to hear some professional voices.



You see what you want to see. 

I've seen this "alleged ISO200" picture on a 50" screen and it appears fine ... unless you are talking of the Bengal Tiger pic shot at ISO3200 with EF400mm f/2.8L IS II USM + Extender EF2x III!

Maybe Canon and I have got a faulty pair of eyes ... couldn't say, I get mine tested ASAP! ;-)


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## rj79in (Mar 5, 2012)

An Indian Perspective ... 

* INR price not announced at product launch
* Pre-ordering not available
* 5D3 expected to hit stores by end of March

5D2 sells around for INR 130K (equivalent to USD 2,680) - the taxes don't help either, so I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. Have been saving for some time for this and the 24-70L II lens ... Indian prices don't change all that frequently, so it is a BUY ASAP - minus the lens though.


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## rj79in (Mar 5, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> Mendolera said:
> 
> 
> > Plus who knows with Canons new pricing even the new rebel may come in at $1599 or so :
> ...



If so ... which one ;-) ... now don't get any ridiculous ideas ppl


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## Martin (Mar 5, 2012)

OK. I've got 27" NEC Spectraview, do u think that a person with faulty eyes uses that kind of stuff? Doesn't really matter.

I judge only photos up to ISO 200. Take a closer look @ 100%.

Image 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 13-is it sharp for you? That's a quality? Please don't be funny. Take a look on skin, clothes, eyes, lashes, hair. Than go for Nikon samples and have a comparison. It's not my eyes. Probably u see what u want, even having your eyes checked. I am not talking about small differences, I am talking about huge image quality gap.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 5, 2012)

Martin said:


> OK. I've got 27" NEC Spectraview, do u think that a person with faulty eyes uses that kind of stuff? Doesn't really matter.
> 
> I judge only photos up to ISO 200. Take a closer look @ 100%.
> 
> Image 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 13-is it sharp for you? That's a quality? Please don't be funny. Take a look on skin, clothes, eyes, lashes, hair. Than go for Nikon samples and have a comparison. It's not my eyes. Probably u see what u want, even having your eyes checked. I am not talking about small differences, I am talking about huge image quality gap.



Not saying just you but for people who are that worried about it, wouldn't you want to see real raws with the latest version / firmware of the camera yourself before saying something that definitive?


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## BillyBean (Mar 5, 2012)

Guys, take a look at this data courtesy of www.camelcamelcamel.com. This shows the price tracking of the EOS 7D after initial announcement in early September 2009 through to today. It shows price maintenance up until a certain point, then a dramatic re-adjustment. Sadly, the EOS 5dII doesn't show the same rapid decline, but what this says to me is that Canon does sometimes get initial prices totally wrong, and is forced to adjust them once initial demand subsides, in this case just a few months after announcement. So my option isn't in the above list, it is "I want an EOS 5D Mark III, and I'm willing to wait...but not forever!"


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## rj79in (Mar 5, 2012)

Martin said:


> OK. I've got 27" NEC Spectraview, do u think that a person with faulty eyes uses that kind of stuff? Doesn't really matter.
> 
> I judge only photos up to ISO 200. Take a closer look @ 100%.
> 
> Image 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 13-is it sharp for you? That's a quality? Please don't be funny. Take a look on skin, clothes, eyes, lashes, hair. Than go for Nikon samples and have a comparison. It's not my eyes. Probably u see what u want, even having your eyes checked. I am not talking about small differences, I am talking about huge image quality gap.



A couple of quick points:

* Wait for real life pics to appear before passing judgement;
* IQ depends largely on the person behind the camera;
* Nikon samples ... no wildlife pics, no landscape pics bar one where the focus is on the flowers and not the background so I can't really compare ... ;
* Trees will be surely be softer than books stacked in a library;
* CANON Images do not mention whether shot in RAW or JPEG (notice the file size?) - though you may have a valid point why CANON would post basic JPEG as samples;
* The most valid comparison would come from shooting the same scene with both cameras otherwise it is comparing apples to oranges considering the variables involved;
* Bad marketing doesn't mean bad product - Hell Nikon's commercial in Bangkok was shot in part by a 5DMII http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3976.0.html;
* CANON may not be as stupid as you would like us to believe;

Being an ex-lawyer I could argue this to death but choose not to. I'm not one to slag off a product / person on the basis of 'samples' which are dependent on variables such as human beings behind the camera, choice of lens, choice of focal length, choice of focus point and what not. 

Who am I to claim that 5DMIII is the best thing since sliced bread, but I can bet that it won't be as bad as you say. I notice you've slagged off the 5DMII to the extent of claiming that you stopped taking pics with it ... CMON ... with this prejudice, as I said, you are bound to see what you want to see ...


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## Axilrod (Mar 5, 2012)

erfon said:


> i've read other reviews though that specifically say the wheel now does _both_. plus he was controlling video volume levels, exactly what the touch sensitiviy was added for.
> 
> but think about this: if the wheel is purely touch sensitive, why does it have those grippy teeth on it still? if it was touch only wouldn't you think they'd take those off? teeth don't make sense when you're using a touch wheel that's supposed to be easy to slide your finger around.



Ok cool, I just couldn't find anything saying that it would spin and I didn't see anyone spinning them in the videos. It's nice to know that you can go either way, and aside from that quote you found everything was kind of unclear.


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## Martin (Mar 5, 2012)

> A couple of quick points:
> 
> * Wait for real life pics to appear before passing judgement;
> * IQ depends largely on the person behind the camera;
> ...



Please don't judge me wrong. I did not like my ex 5d2 due to some things: terrible AF, 1/125 real x sync, no lamp supporting AF in dim light, terrible mattering (all images was underexposed, even checked it with my light meeter, but canon service stated it was ok) I just did not have such a problems with Nikon. 
My judgment now is only based on samples provided by Canon. For me it is obvious that a company which brings such awaited product to market makes everything they can to show possibly best images. If this is it, they just did not convince me to stay with them. Of course i will probably wait to see the real tests and reviews, but from what I have seen so far, it's not worth even half of the money. All i need is a 5d2 with some tweeks and it seemed that that 5d3 was that kind of a stuff, however a close look (even just a look) on samples completely change my thinking. Samples look like a step back in quality. Samples are described with lens used, parameters, etc so u have this information. In my opinion it's not the person behind the camera, we don't judge the photos itself, but the quality, sharpness-which are connected only to to camera.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 5, 2012)

Martin said:


> > A couple of quick points:
> >
> > * Wait for real life pics to appear before passing judgement;
> > * IQ depends largely on the person behind the camera;
> ...



Do you always judge cameras by the sample pics put on their marketing sites? There are a few 20+~ megapixel cameras that have been out in the market for awhile. Can you show me some pictures that directly compare to these samples that all is judged by in your book to illustrate the problems you find in the 5d III?

And in the end..

Honestly like the poster mentioned above. Do you think Canon would be as dumb to release a camera with IQ that is that much worse? I'm mind blown by some of these comments out there. And why does everyone throw away the fact that a 36mp sensor can possibly resolve detail better. Isn't that the reason why you have higher mp? 

Also your problems with the 5d II....Most of those were obvious as soon as the specs were laid out (except your statement about metering). Never did canon say it had vastly improved AF from the 5d, or an AF assist lamp? If those type of things were so important that you would stop using an 5d II because of it why did you buy it in the first place?


----------



## Cannon Man (Mar 5, 2012)

There is no way to make something better and still make it cheaper to the public.

I say better because this new camera is a"better class camera" not just an improvement.
Improved built quality, better weather sealing and improved AF makes it a better camera worh every penny!

You can still get the 5D II and get bang for your buck so dont cry when they make better product and give it the right price that it should have.


----------



## rj79in (Mar 5, 2012)

Martin said:


> > A couple of quick points:
> >
> > * Wait for real life pics to appear before passing judgement;
> > * IQ depends largely on the person behind the camera;
> ...



Ok ... so we can agree to disagree. 

Given the fact that you seem to have purchased the 5DII without any recce (I note that the problems mentioned by you were largely out in the open, so to speak), your apprehension towards the 5DIII seems understandable. 

However, I am struggling to understand how can one judge the capability of the camera only by looking at 8-10 shots? I guess you are making the same mistake you did with the II, forming an opinion without actually testing the equipment yourself. 

I've tried the Nikons myself in the field and can say that these are also very capable cameras. However, having shot with Canon for a considerable length of time, migrating to a new breed is just a step too far from me. As on date, using a Canon camera for me is as familiar as walking / driving and migrating to a whole new system for me is as improbable as is for Paul Scholes to play for Man City ... but this doesn't make Nikons to be bad cameras simply because I cannot adapt. 

I remember the II getting all sorts of flak when it was announced but it went on to be one of the best cameras used worldwide. Can't wait to get my hands on the III.


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## BillyBean (Mar 5, 2012)

Cannon Man said:


> There is no way to make something better and still make it cheaper to the public.



You're kidding, right? Have you been on another planet the last 50 years? Sorry, make that 250 years...

I started work on an IBM XT with a 5mb (yes, MEGABYTE) hard drive, and 512k of RAM which cost around £5000....

Go figure.

I want more, I want better, I want cheaper. Guess whose going to be proven correct... If Canon cannot get this, they will go the way of Kodak.


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## gn100 (Mar 5, 2012)

BillyBean said:


> Guys, take a look at this data courtesy of www.camelcamelcamel.com. This shows the price tracking of the EOS 7D after initial announcement in early September 2009 through to today. It shows price maintenance up until a certain point, then a dramatic re-adjustment. Sadly, the EOS 5dII doesn't show the same rapid decline, but what this says to me is that Canon does sometimes get initial prices totally wrong, and is forced to adjust them once initial demand subsides, in this case just a few months after announcement. So my option isn't in the above list, it is "I want an EOS 5D Mark III, and I'm willing to wait...but not forever!"



Another thing to consider is exchange rates - the USD is weaker now than when the 5DII came out. Where I live the 5DII cost NZ $5400 when it came out (that's $4400 US in today's terms). I'm hoping the weaker USD will mean I can buy the 5DIII for a cheaper price than the original 5DII price


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## rj79in (Mar 5, 2012)

BillyBean said:


> Cannon Man said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way to make something better and still make it cheaper to the public.
> ...



Comparing apples to oranges won't work. What worked for computer hardware may not work universally especially when the market competition is limited to a select few corporate houses - in this case mostly Canon and Nikon.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 5, 2012)

BillyBean said:


> Cannon Man said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way to make something better and still make it cheaper to the public.
> ...



As a consumer, it's your right to want more for less. However, you have to be realistic with your expectations. There are countless posts of "I want my 7D to do the same as the 1D X for $1500". 

The computer industry is sort of a thing of it's own. 99% of electronics go up in price rather than down and I hardly doubt that Canon is run by a bunch of mouth breathers that will run it into the ground. Do some Googling and see what the top selling camera is right now and and then tell me that they don't know what they are doing.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 5, 2012)

BillyBean said:


> Cannon Man said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way to make something better and still make it cheaper to the public.
> ...



There is a limit to it at any given time. Otherwise while you might get "better" features.. you end up getting less quality.


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## briansquibb (Mar 5, 2012)

BillyBean said:


> You're kidding, right? Have you been on another planet the last 50 years? Sorry, make that 250 years...
> 
> I started work on an IBM XT with a 5mb (yes, MEGABYTE) hard drive, and 512k of RAM which cost around £5000....



You were lucky - my first PC only had 1 floppy disk - the XT was a latecomer


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## BillyBean (Mar 5, 2012)

Sure there are limits, and don't misunderstand me - I'm not complaining about the 5D3 price. But anyone who thinks that equipment is not getting cheaper and better over time is sadly deluded. And I'm sorry, but this isn't just computers. It is cars, cameras, hifi just about anything. Maybe someone under 20 wouldn't realise this yet, but to anyone else it should be obvious.


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## cliffwang (Mar 5, 2012)

rj79in said:


> BillyBean said:
> 
> 
> > Cannon Man said:
> ...



Actually Canon / Nikon DSLR market is called oligopoly. There is not thing reflex to the cost/price. They can make higher profit from their new product even thought the cost of new product is same with old product. If 5D3 demand drop very quick in the coming three months, Canon will lower 5D3's price. Everything is simple: supply and demand.


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## RuneL (Mar 5, 2012)

This poll sucks. You lack a bunch of response options, like "don't know" or "not buying anything"


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## tt (Mar 5, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> BillyBean said:
> 
> 
> > You're kidding, right? Have you been on another planet the last 50 years? Sorry, make that 250 years...
> ...


Luxury! Eee, in my day we would dream of a floppy disk! Each day after working at mill we would have to bite out holes in't punchcards with our teeth. 

And a digital camera? Eee, by eck, we used to have to etch out paper with sharpened measuring rod. Hugely dissapointed I tell you, hugely dissapointed. 
It's like they're a monopsony to the EF lens cameras or something.


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## cliffwang (Mar 5, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> BillyBean said:
> 
> 
> > You're kidding, right? Have you been on another planet the last 50 years? Sorry, make that 250 years...
> ...



I was lucky enough. I got a tape drive for my first Apple. My brother even had no tape drive for his.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 5, 2012)

BillyBean said:


> Sure there are limits, and don't misunderstand me - I'm not complaining about the 5D3 price. But anyone who thinks that equipment is not getting cheaper and better over time is sadly deluded. And I'm sorry, but this isn't just computers. It is cars, cameras, hifi just about anything. Maybe someone under 20 wouldn't realise this yet, but to anyone else it should be obvious.



I just checked the MSRP of my truck from 2000-2012 and, wait for it............. the cost went up! To be fair, I included inflation and guess what happened next? It went up! Next time you want to be condisending, at least give proof.


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## tivoboy (Mar 5, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> BillyBean said:
> 
> 
> > You're kidding, right? Have you been on another planet the last 50 years? Sorry, make that 250 years...
> ...



My first computer had 4kb of memory.


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## AJ (Mar 5, 2012)

tivoboy said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > BillyBean said:
> ...



The VIC-20?

My first computer was a Commodore 64. And for the first month I didn't have a tape drive. I programmed the game Mastermind, but at the end of the day I had to turn off the computer.

Prior to that I managed to borrow my cousin's Apple II computer. It came with Pong. My brother and I spent many hours playing it. Good memories!

I did program a computer at school with punchcards - probably an early PDP.


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## tivoboy (Mar 5, 2012)

original apple II


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## cpsico (Mar 5, 2012)

Its a great deal with the improved auto focus and improved sensor. It will be the go to wedding camera for canon pros with the specs it has


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## kdsand (Mar 5, 2012)

RuneL said:


> This poll sucks. You lack a bunch of response options, like "don't know" or "not buying anything"




I thought I was the only.
Perhaps a 7DII will tickle my fancy.


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## Curmudgeon (Mar 6, 2012)

As an old English teacher, I wouldn't say that I am "hugely disappointed" by the price of the 5D3--that would be assigning physical dimensions to an emotional state. How about "moderately disappointed" and a little surprised that Canon didn't follow Nikon's lead in pricing?

My vote in the poll was to keep my 5D2. Nevertheless, on paper at least the 5D3 seems like a sensible upgrade to the 5D2, and if the real-world performance matches the specs, I'll upgrade--but not until the price drops.

Still, I can't help but shake my head in admiration of those clever folks in Canon's marketing department. Nikon introduces a well-featured camera at an aggressive price, and rather than meet the competition, Canon neatly bookends the D800 by keeping the 5D2 in production at a a significantly lowered price. Here I thought I was the owner of a mid-level full-frame camera with aging-but-still-serviceable technology. Turns out the 5D2 is actually a state-of-the--art 2012 entry level full-frame camera. Who knew?

What's really nice about this strategy is that Nikon has no way of responding. Not only does the D700 lack the now-obligatory video, but Nikon can no longer legally sell the camera in its home market of Japan. (Wouldn't you know, Sony's A900 also lacks video.) And you thought those boys in Canon marketing were overpaid parasites.

I expect Canon to keep selling the 5D2 for as long as its aging technology can divert first-time or modestly bankrolled buyers from Nikon or Sony. When that's no longer possible, I imagine the model will be retired and the 5D3 will be repriced in line with the D800. In the meantime I might buy some glass or the new flash.

The question for me then is how long will it take for the 5D3 price to soften? And for a couple of reasons I'm actually optimistic that I'll have a new camera within 12 to15 months. For all the hype, hoopla and hysteria, the hallelujahs and the gnashing of teeth surrounding the recent introductions of the 5D3 and the D800, we still know almost nothing about the comparative performance of the production cameras either in testing or in everyday use. I expect both to be good, but if it proves difficult to pinpoint $500 worth of value for Canon's premium, I suspect the price difference will erode pretty quickly. Go Nikon.

The other factor which will I believe affect pricing will be how current owners of higher-end Canon DSLRS perceive the usefulness of the 5D3's upgrades in relation to their present cameras. And here I think the clever boys in marketing have made at least one serious mis-step. I'm not a videographer and I don't pretend to know their priorities, but I do know that video was the _sine qua non_ feature which gave the 5D2 its enormous market advantage. And it can't be good news for Canon that several prominent DSLR videographers are already on record as saying that the 5D3 is a much larger step forward for still photography than it is for video. Vincent LaForet, the Godfather of DSLR video, is aghast at the lack of clean HDMI output from the new camera. "Why? Why? Why?" he asks in exasperation on his blog. (Nikon has it.)

Likewise, several videographers and commentators simply assumed that the 5D3 would take the next step to 1080p output at 60 fps, and expressed shock when it didn't. It's a capability now found on several mirrorless cameras, which also feature video autofocus superior to anything Canon has yet demonstrated. More people might feel Canon's $500 premium is justifed if it included a second processor (a Digic 4 or perhaps a 5 with or without the +) to provide the processing horsepower to handle 60 fps.

All in all it seems like a golden lead squandered. "Explorer of Light" and loyal Canon champion Laforet is so disenchanted with the specs of the new camera that he goes out of his way on his blog to tell his patron company and the world that he will _not_ be making a video with the 5D3. And just in case Canon executives are oblivious to the fact that this a howl of protest, LaForet remounts a page-one link to his seminal video, _Reverie_--shot with the 5D2. Could there be a clearer slap in the face from a videographer?

If the 5D3 can't maintain the 5D2's enormous sales advantage among videographers, I'll have my new camera about as soon as I can afford it.


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## VirtualRain (Mar 6, 2012)

*Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

A lot of people are extremely disappointed, like I am, that the price on the 5DIII increased 30% from the $2700 that was the 5DII's price for much of the first few years.

To better understand why this has happened, it's important to note that... 
1. Canon is a Japanese based company that operates on the Yen. 
2. The USD has weakened compared to the Yen over the last few years - perhaps not surprisingly... 30%. A graph of the USD's decline against the Yen is attached.

So back when the 5DII was announced, it was priced at 270,000 Yen ($2700 USD). Incidentally, the 5DIII is priced the same, except that 270,000 Yen now translates to $3500 USD.

As much as it sucks, it's the global economy and the weak USD that's the primary culprit here.


----------



## meli (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

And pray tell us what kinda of wizardry has Nikon implemented with D800's price, since the d700 launched @ 300k Yen?


----------



## dho81 (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Thats cool. Now please explain why Nikon's (also a Japanese company) price only went to $2999.95 given your theory and the fact that the d700 was also released in 2008 months before the 5DII. Thanks.

I'm just tired of seeing this justification for Canon to charge so much more than its predecessor. In the end, it's still worth it for me to buy this camera for what I shoot, but to say that it's simply the global economy is a cop-out excuse to a price hike. Seems to me they priced it far higher to make the 5D2 seem like a great deal and continue selling high volumes of those at a moderately reduced price.


----------



## Takuma (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Hm assuming that the price on amazon.jp (322.201 yen)

http://www.amazon.co.jp/CANON-%E3%83%87%E3%82%B8%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E4%B8%80%E7%9C%BC%E3%83%AC%E3%83%95%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A1%E3%83%A9-%E7%B4%842230%E4%B8%87%E7%94%BB%E7%B4%A0%E3%83%95%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B5%E3%82%A4%E3%82%BA-3-2%E5%9E%8B%E3%83%AF%E3%82%A4%E3%83%89%E6%B6%B2%E6%99%B6%E3%83%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-EOS5DMK3/dp/B007G3SSP8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330997047&sr=8-1

is the asking price from canon, then that's a 20% increase there as well. That would translate to 3955 USD or 3000 EUR (according to the web).

just saying


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## pdirestajr (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Perhaps Nikon is pricing their camera at 3,000 to be more competitive and trying to get some users to switch? I notice their lenses are a bit more expensive than Canon's. Also one of the D800's is priced at 3,500 isn't it?


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

It costs money to switch over to Nikon. Canon won over a lot of market share with the mkii, so this is one justification (economic) for the price premium over Nikon. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switching_barriers


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## Dave T (Mar 6, 2012)

I have to admit I didn't read every post of the 21 pages for this thread. A lot of them got off subject and I sped right by them until the camera in question, the 5D3, came up again. One contributor mentioned that the poll wasn't very good as it left a lot of responses out. I would agree as I was considering up grading to the 5D3 from my 5Dc. My problem is, I have never taken a video, don't want to take any video and don't foresee a time when I will want to take videos. Now I'm not lamenting the video features included in the 5D3, but rather if it could possibly be worth $3500 to someone like me who just doesn't need video capability. If it had come out with a price in the upper 2K range I would have seriously considered it...but once it passes 3K I just can't justify the outlay of money. And, I can't help but wonder how many others there are out there in the same position?

Dave


----------



## CrimsonBlue (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Lest we not forget that $2700 years ago is not the same as $2700 today. Inflation at 3% makes it...

$2700 Sept 2008
$2781 Sept 2009
$2864 Sept 2010
$2950 Sept 2011
$2995 March 2012 (1.5% because of 1/2 year)

The SAME camera would cost $3000 in today's dollars. Canon chose to up the price for plenty of other reasons. Debate those all you like, but the big fact that most people are missing is that time (inflation) takes its toll too.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*



VirtualRain said:


> A lot of people are extremely disappointed, like I am, that the price on the 5DIII increased 30% from the $2700 that was the 5DII's price for much of the first few years.
> 
> To better understand why this has happened, it's important to note that...
> 1. Canon is a Japanese based company that operates on the Yen.
> ...



OTOH D700=D800

60d<50D=40D


----------



## nitelife2 (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

From my experience I'd say Canon could sell the 5D3 for $1500 and still would make profit. But as many are willing to pay more Canon takes more... It is that easy...


----------



## x-vision (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*



VirtualRain said:


> As much as it sucks, it's the global economy and the weak USD that's the primary culprit here.



As others have said, please explain why other Japanese companies have not increased their prices with 30%.
Also, did German car makers (BMW, Audi, Mercedes) jack up their prices with 30% when the euro was super-strong before the 2008 crisis?

Attributing the 5DIII price increase to the strong yen is simplistic and naive. 

Canon simply repositioned the 5DIII a bit higher - the same way they repositioned the 7D compared to the xxD series. 
If they used a different name (say 5DX or 3D), the repositioning would have been more clear.
For some reason they chose to stay with the 5D name, causing a sticker shock . 

Right now the 5DIII is priced higher than the competition (D800) but the price will come down eventually.


----------



## shannon76 (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

My suggestion... If $3500 is a drop in the bucket for you go out and get the 5D Mark III. That's probably less than 10% of us. For the other 90+% of us who don't have that kind of cash lying around just keep on using your current equipment for the next 6 months or so. The price will come down in no time when Canon sees that the majority isn't falling for their new over priced baby. Besides, it isn't going to make the majority of your pictures look that much better anyway.


----------



## Meh (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*



meli said:


> And pray tell us what kinda of wizardry has Nikon implemented with D800's price, since the d700 launched @ 300k Yen?



Wizardry? Well, they might have chosen to accept lower profit margins in order to reduce prices and try to gain back market share against the 5D3. Just sayin'.


----------



## Meh (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*



nitelife2 said:


> From my experience I'd say Canon could sell the 5D3 for $1500 and still would make profit. But as many are willing to pay more Canon takes more... It is that easy...



Really? And what experience is that? Unless you are/were a very senior executive at Canon I'm inclined to think you really don't know what Canon's unit cost (manufacturing cost + allocation of marketing, R&D, etc.) is on any particular product. I'm not saying you're wrong... just that you don't know, just as I don't know.


----------



## x-vision (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*



nitelife2 said:


> From my experience I'd say Canon could sell the 5D3 for $1500 and still would make profit. But as many are willing to pay more Canon takes more... It is that easy...



Exactly. 

There's pent up demand in the market for an "affordable" (ahem) Canon FF camera with an advanced AF system.
The 5DIII delivers just that and many will pay the initial high price. 

But the 5DIII is also meant to be a high volume product (relatively speaking), so the price will inevitably drop.

This is called "price skimming" and seems to have become Canon's standard pricing strategy for all of their photo products.


----------



## Meh (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*



x-vision said:


> VirtualRain said:
> 
> 
> > As much as it sucks, it's the global economy and the weak USD that's the primary culprit here.
> ...



I agree that it's overly simplistic to attribute the price increase solely to changes in exchange rate but it is not naive. It is definitely a factor but only one of many. Other Japanese or German companies may have different cost models, may incur more costs outside of Japan (say in China where the RMB is pegged to USD) which is a natural currency hedge, or may simply be absorbing the FX change and accepting a lower gross margin because their market analysis has caused them to believe they don't have sufficient pricing power to raise their prices and still maintain market share.


----------



## Terry Rogers (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Any economics 101 class will tell you the cost of manufacturing a product has relatively little bearing on the price a consumer pays (other than selling for below manufacturing cost).
Please read 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Canon is a corporation. A corporation produces products to make a profit. In fact, they produce products to make as much profit as possible. If they feel they could make the most profit by selling the 5D iii for $2500 to many buyers, they would sell it at $2500. If they feel they could make even more profit by selling it for $5000 to fewer buyers, they would sell it for $5000. As such, their economists feel selling it for $3500 will yeild them the greatest overall profit. If their economists are wrong (which they can be), we will see a reduction in price. If they are right, we won't. Competition (from Nikon or any other camera manufacturer) puts pressure on the price by producing more supply of competing products. However, the d800 may not be in direct competition against the 5D3 as each camera seems to be targeted to different consumers.

Ultimately, while general inflation and a weak yen may affect the cost of manufacturing, Canon is more likely to set their price structure based on making the greatest total profit possible. Profit being purchase price minus all associated costs of getting the product to the retailer and boosting demand (manfacturing, shipping, exchange rate, advertising etc).

Going on about exchange rate and inflation while part of the picture, plays a lesser roll in pricing than maximizing profit in my oppinion.

I am not an economist or business owner, so if I am wrong, please feel free to correct me. This is how I understand the economics of pricing.


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## eeek (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Also, not sure if you know this or not, the was a small earthquake and a little flood in Japan last year. A lot of Canon's raw sources, production faclities, parts and other supilles suffered just a tiny bit. Add that with a weak dollar, a product that required research and development and demand, and the prices goes up.


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## eeek (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Wonderful post, Terry Rogers.


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## Meh (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

@TerryRogers.... yep, that's about right. The key is that Canon thinks a sufficiently large number of potential customers will pay $3500 at the time of announcement. The price will come down as all the early adopters get their units in their hands and enjoy firing off thousands of glorious shots. Sales will then slow down a bit and then discounts/rebates/sales will be offered that will allow the next group to get some satisfaction.

On the other hand, while Canon can, and does, set prices differently in different countries they won't allow too much price difference otherwise customers would be disgruntled for that reason. Therefore, the argument that Canon in reality has merely set the price the same as the 5D2 introduction price in Yen and the weakening of the US dollar is a large contributor to the apparent increase in the US pricing is, in fact, quite valid.


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

This is too simpleminded as others have pointed out. Global companies such as Canon have complex finances that aren't subject to simple rules like you showed. For starters, money if fungible, which means that a local dollar (a buck collected in the US) doesn't necessarily have to be repatriated, thereby going through the horrific currency exchange you mention. Canon employs people across the world including the US - maybe that buck is 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' US Canon employees. Or maybe it's 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' for US goods that are shipped to Japan for Canon's manufacturing, or it is spent on US advertising, or a web presence in the US. Or maybe Japan has lenient tax laws and that buck doesn't need to be converted at all. 

Who knows? These are all stupid examples, because the answer you gave is nonsensical. The answer to the price increase is because Canon marketing decided this is the price the market will bear.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 6, 2012)

Curmudgeon said:


> The other factor which will I believe affect pricing will be how current owners of higher-end Canon DSLRS perceive the usefulness of the 5D3's upgrades in relation to their present cameras. And here I think the clever boys in marketing have made at least one serious mis-step. I'm not a videographer and I don't pretend to know their priorities, but I do know that video was the _sine qua non_ feature which gave the 5D2 its enormous market advantage. And it can't be good news for Canon that several prominent DSLR videographers are already on record as saying that the 5D3 is a much larger step forward for still photography than it is for video. Vincent LaForet, the Godfather of DSLR video, is aghast at the lack of clean HDMI output from the new camera. "Why? Why? Why?" he asks in exasperation on his blog. (Nikon has it.)
> 
> Likewise, several videographers and commentators simply assumed that the 5D3 would take the next step to 1080p output at 60 fps, and expressed shock when it didn't. It's a capability now found on several mirrorless cameras, which also feature video autofocus superior to anything Canon has yet demonstrated. More people might feel Canon's $500 premium is justifed if it included a second processor (a Digic 4 or perhaps a 5 with or without the +) to provide the processing horsepower to handle 60 fps.
> 
> ...



In Laforet's post... How does everyone miss the fact that he basically states his needs are not on the stills side anymore and the $15,000 C300 purely video camera is what he is benchmarking the 5d III? Of course for a pure video guy that can afford 15k C300 how is the 5d III really going to impress him? Seems like a super case of reading what you want into it.

When the 5d2 came out Laforet was still know as a Pulitzer Prize winning photographer and he was really just getting into cinema productions.


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## Plathora (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*

Canon can charge me as much as it wants; that is until the day my lenses start saying 'made in China' on the bottom. I doubt I am alone.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 6, 2012)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/31/us-toyota-prices-idUSTRE72U75420110331
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2011/08/12/strong-yen-puts-brakes-on-honda-profits/
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-05/japan-inc-suppliers-cut-jobs-as-yen-batters-tv-chip-profit.html
http://www.tokyotimes.co.jp/2012/canons-yearly-profit-reduced-by-strong-yen/

To say it didn't factor in at all is probably wrong too.


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## Meh (Mar 6, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII*



FunPhotons said:


> This is too simpleminded as others have pointed out. Global companies such as Canon have complex finances that aren't subject to simple rules like you showed. For starters, money if fungible, which means that a local dollar (a buck collected in the US) doesn't necessarily have to be repatriated, thereby going through the horrific currency exchange you mention. Canon employs people across the world including the US - maybe that buck is 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' US Canon employees. Or maybe it's 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' for US goods that are shipped to Japan for Canon's manufacturing, or it is spent on US advertising, or a web presence in the US. Or maybe Japan has lenient tax laws and that buck doesn't need to be converted at all.
> 
> Who knows? These are all stupid examples, because the answer you gave is nonsensical. The answer to the price increase is because Canon marketing decided this is the price the market will bear.



I've always like the word "fungible" so +1 for that. You are correct about the complex financial structures of multi-national corporations and the fact that dollars generated in the US do not have to be actually converted back to Yen. However, Canon USA's financial statements are, every quarter, converted to Yen and consolidated with the parent corporation. You are also correct in stating that Canon has set the price based on what they think they can sell it for but unfortunately, you're incorrectly dismissing the exchange rate. While I have agreed with others that is is overly simplistic to attribute the USD price increase solely on the exchange, I firmly believe that Canon set the price in Yen first and then set the price in other currencies possibly deviating from the straight FX conversion to account for market conditions but not by much. They would not have decided to set the price at 283,000 yen and then "set" US price at say $2700 causing an $800 price disparity.


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## Terry Rogers (Mar 6, 2012)

ippikiokami said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/31/us-toyota-prices-idUSTRE72U75420110331
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2011/08/12/strong-yen-puts-brakes-on-honda-profits/
> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-05/japan-inc-suppliers-cut-jobs-as-yen-batters-tv-chip-profit.html
> http://www.tokyotimes.co.jp/2012/canons-yearly-profit-reduced-by-strong-yen/
> ...



I never said it doesn't play a factor at all. It plays a factor into *how much * profit Canon can make. They price it to maximize whatever profit they do make.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 6, 2012)

Terry Rogers said:


> ippikiokami said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/31/us-toyota-prices-idUSTRE72U75420110331
> ...



My post wasn't aimed at you Terry, but to go along with your example since it plays a factor in how much profit then it is a notable factor especially when the worldwide economy isn't in it's best place right?


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## Terry Rogers (Mar 6, 2012)

ippikiokami said:


> Terry Rogers said:
> 
> 
> > ippikiokami said:
> ...



Yes, I agree. Though my grasp on worldwide economics is very limited.


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## x-vision (Mar 6, 2012)

Curmudgeon said:


> If the 5D3 can't maintain the 5D2's enormous sales advantage among videographers, I'll have my new camera about as soon as I can afford it.



Hehe, agree. 
Very good analysis overall. 

I also think that the 5DIII price will erode because of videographers. 
In addition to Canon omitting some key video specs from the 5DIII ('clean' HDMI, 60fps 1080p), there are strong indications that Sony will be announcing their A99 model this fall - an SLT camera with 24mp FF sensor. 

Sony's A900 and A850 were not very popular for still photography. 
However, if Sony plays their cars well, the A99 might become very popular with videographers. 

If the A99 has 'clean' HDMI, 60fps 1080p, and is priced around the $2000 mark, it can easily become the video DSLR of choice for many of those who are now buying the 5DII and (potentially) the 5DIII. 

The possibility that a large group of buyers might migrate to the competition will surely prompt Canon to lower the 5DIII price. 
My prediction is that the 5DIII price will drop to $2600-2400 next summer and stay at that level for a while.


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Mar 6, 2012)

I just checked Amazon and the $3500 5D3 is the #2 best-selling digital camera on their list, the only DSLR in the Top 10 . The other DSLRs in the #11-20 range are the Rebels. So $3500 doesn't seem to be an issue for those buying in this category of cameras.


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## Drama79 (Mar 6, 2012)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> I just checked Amazon and the $3500 5D3 is the #2 best-selling digital camera on their list, the only DSLR in the Top 10 . The other DSLRs in the #11-20 range are the Rebels. So $3500 doesn't seem to be an issue for those buying in this category of cameras.



This.

I've just read 4 pages of amateur economics, rants and screeds, and it all boils down to this: the price is $3500. Because Canon say so, and it isn't shifting at the moment. Given the cameras presales are backed out the yaya at every camera shop, it's the no.1 electrical item on amazon.co.uk (or was last night) and no.2 camera on amazon.com, demand is clearly high, and staying there for the forseeable.

it's _almost_ as if Canon put some research and thought into pricing their products....


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## noodles (Mar 6, 2012)

At this moment: March 06, 2012, 04:10:37 PM
it is a *win for the Canon 5D MK II*

Canon 5D MK III = 118 votes (39,9%)

Keepers 5D MK II + upgraders to 5D MK II = 127 votes (42,9%)

at some point - when the price of the 5D MKIII will go down (next 6 to 9 months) it will be a win for the 5D MK III
New always wins from old


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## sphax (Mar 6, 2012)

Sorry to ask, I don't know if it has been answered before, but : is there any clear and sure price in euros yet ? Is it really 3499€ jusqt as it is in US $ ? Thanks for the answers.


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## murdock07 (Mar 6, 2012)

sphax said:


> Sorry to ask, I don't know if it has been answered before, but : is there any clear and sure price in euros yet ? Is it really 3499€ jusqt as it is in US $ ? Thanks for the answers.



Here in Austria its € 3299.- = ~$ 4320.-. 

I decided to wait a few month till prices start to drop.


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## FAU4U (Mar 6, 2012)

*[size=10pt]My fast read for the Canon 5D Mark III camera... A very big improvement "under the hood" for the Canon 5D brand segment... At $3500 it's a bargain. Several years ago, I bought two Canon's 1Ds3 for $7900 a copy, however this 5D3 is better in every regard... So think of this as a 1/2 price sale, with a smaller foot-print... AND, forget buying the 5D2 for $2200. It would be insane IMHO for someone to spend good Money for a device that is 3 years old, although new in box... Years ago, before digital it may have not made a big difference, as we were then buying Mechanical Devices, shutters, optical viewfinder, film-transport systems, into which we could load the NEW Films... Today we are buying an IMAGER and the Digital Imaging Engines and Post image processing in-camera mini-Computers ... Because of the fast moving technology enhancements, we highly recommend buying only the Latest, Newly Released digital gear... OK, you cannot afford $3500 for the 5D2, fine... Then get the Canon 7D... As its is a higher advanced camera than the 5D2, albeit sub-Full Frame imager design... It too is a wonderful camera.... BTW, we sold all of our Canon gear last year, 2011, some $25k in lenses and cameras... In preparation for 2012 year's new offerings... We do this every 2 to 3 years, to keep up wth the best imaging equipment for our clients. Go to  [url=http://www.416-1100.com]http://www.416-1100.com[/url].[/size]*


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## kdsand (Mar 6, 2012)

As wisely stated before they will charge what the market will bear and definitely not a penny less. Canon is a business not a fairy godmother.


I know that I am the consumer.
Many people here would hate to see that I negotiate when buying a car or house.

So if I state "The price is wrong Dick!" Will Bob launch through the air & beat the snot out of me?

Perhaps there should also be the topic - Hugely satisfied with the price Canon is charging.


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## ippikiokami (Mar 6, 2012)

kdsand said:


> As wisely stated before they will charge what the market will bear and definitely not a penny less. Canon is a business not a fairy godmother.
> 
> 
> I know that I am the consumer.
> ...



I think most people's argument against the initial statement is that... it should be made with some context of what the real life situation is. If you make a statement like that as the main subject line of your post. You should also be ready to back it up no?


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## kdsand (Mar 6, 2012)

ippikiokami said:


> kdsand said:
> 
> 
> > As wisely stated before they will charge what the market will bear and definitely not a penny less. Canon is a business not a fairy godmother.
> ...



Back it up?
Likely it is relative to a persons situation, temperament and even education.

Seeing the statement "I will gladly pay" seems a bit odd.


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## sphax (Mar 6, 2012)

murdock07 said:


> sphax said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to ask, I don't know if it has been answered before, but : is there any clear and sure price in euros yet ? Is it really 3499€ jusqt as it is in US $ ? Thanks for the answers.
> ...



It's really insane … I don't care about people who keep telling me that technology moves ahead so fast that I'm forced to invest in the latest shit out here … What I see here is that for the price of the 5D mkIII body I AM GONNA buy a new 5DmkII, a new 24-105F/4L IS and a new 70-200F/2,8 … unbelievable !!


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## briansquibb (Mar 6, 2012)

FAU4U said:


> *[size=10pt]My fast read for the Canon 5D Mark III camera... A very big improvement "under the hood" for the Canon 5D brand segment... At $3500 it's a bargain. Several years ago, I bought two Canon's 1Ds3 for $7900 a copy, however this 5D3 is better in every regard... So think of this as a 1/2 price sale, with a smaller foot-print... AND, forget buying the 5D2 for $2200. It would be insane IMHO for someone to spend good Money for a device that is 3 years old, although new in box... Years ago, before digital it may have not made a big difference, as we were then buying Mechanical Devices, shutters, optical viewfinder, film-transport systems, into which we could load the NEW Films... Today we are buying an IMAGER and the Digital Imaging Engines and Post image processing in-camera mini-Computers ... Because of the fast moving technology enhancements, we highly recommend buying only the Latest, Newly Released digital gear... OK, you cannot afford $3500 for the 5D2, fine... Then get the Canon 7D... As its is a higher advanced camera than the 5D2, albeit sub-Full Frame imager design... It too is a wonderful camera.... BTW, we sold all of our Canon gear last year, 2011, some $25k in lenses and cameras... In preparation for 2012 year's new offerings... We do this every 2 to 3 years, to keep up wth the best imaging equipment for our clients. Go to  [url=http://www.416-1100.com]http://www.416-1100.com[/url].[/size]*



Had a play with one today - looks like a replacement for the 1Ds3, seems to have all the functions plus a bit more. The only thing missing is the weatherproofing - looks like good value to me!!

Also had a play with the 200-400 lens. Rather on the large size!


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## smirkypants (Mar 6, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Had a play with one today - looks like a replacement for the 1Ds3, seems to have all the functions plus a bit more. The only thing missing is the weatherproofing - looks like good value to me!!
> 
> Also had a play with the 200-400 lens. Rather on the large size!


Grand theft. Think about it. Sometimes you just gotta go for the five-finger discount.


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## briansquibb (Mar 6, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Had a play with one today - looks like a replacement for the 1Ds3, seems to have all the functions plus a bit more. The only thing missing is the weatherproofing - looks like good value to me!!
> ...



I suppose you have just jumped to Nikon then??


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## smirkypants (Mar 6, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I suppose you have just jumped to Nikon then??


Get me that lens and I'm back! Hell, I'd even give you, say, $8000 for it? That's what I figure it's worth.


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## briansquibb (Mar 6, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose you have just jumped to Nikon then??
> ...



Thanks but I didn't like it - to big, too cumbersome - it is the size of the 400 F/2.8 and on a 5DIII felt all wrong.

I have the 70-300L and the 400 f/2.8 which will do the business better than the 200-400.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 6, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Had a play with one today - looks like a replacement for the 1Ds3, seems to have all the functions plus a bit more. The only thing missing is the weatherproofing - looks like good value to me!!
> 
> Also had a play with the 200-400 lens. Rather on the large size!



what amazes me most about this post is the complete lack of pics! you are off your game.


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## briansquibb (Mar 6, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Had a play with one today - looks like a replacement for the 1Ds3, seems to have all the functions plus a bit more. The only thing missing is the weatherproofing - looks like good value to me!!
> ...



Sorry about that ;D ;D ;D


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## jhop (Mar 6, 2012)

Perhaps this was mentioned earlier in one of the 24 pages of this thread but it seems to me that Canon is creating some space in their product line by upping the 5Dmk3 price by $1k to $3499 (USD). They now have room to bump up the 7Dmk2 to a full frame and come in the $2300 range and effectively reduce the entry cost into the full frame world with a current camera while giving a better AF system than the outgoing 5Dmk2. Canon could do this at minimal development cost by carrying the new 22mp sensor and shutter assembly, down grade the processor to a Digic 5 thus reducing the FPS and possibly ISO slightly to create a "justifiable" difference from a marketing perspective. Currently the Canon line up is pretty crowded below $1500 point with the 7D/60D/T3i and other Rebels and you can only take a cropped sensor so far. This scenario seems to be to be right out of Canons recent marketing playbook if you look at this from a business perspective. I would not be "Hugely Disappointed" in the 5Dmk3 price unless Canon fails to deliver a lower priced full frame camera later this year.


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## briansquibb (Mar 6, 2012)

jhop said:


> Perhaps this was mentioned earlier in one of the 24 pages of this thread but it seems to me that Canon is creating some space in their product line by upping the 5Dmk3 price by $1k to $3499 (USD). They now have room to bump up the 7Dmk2 to a full frame and come in the $2300 range and effectively reduce the entry cost into the full frame world with a current camera while giving a better AF system than the outgoing 5Dmk2. Canon could do this at minimal development cost by carrying the new 22mp sensor and shutter assembly, down grade the processor to a Digic 5 thus reducing the FPS and possibly ISO slightly to create a "justifiable" difference from a marketing perspective. Currently the Canon line up is pretty crowded below $1500 point with the 7D/60D/T3i and other Rebels and you can only take a cropped sensor so far. This scenario seems to be to be right out of Canons recent marketing playbook if you look at this from a business perspective. I would not be "Hugely Disappointed" in the 5Dmk3 price unless Canon fails to deliver a lower priced full frame camera later this year.



Get rid of the 7D and 60D and replace with a 70D will create that gap


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## wickidwombat (Mar 6, 2012)

the 5Dmk2 IS the low priced full frame its here right now

the 7D mk2 will be king of the crops with high FPS dusl digics to satisfy all the sports wildlife shooters that want the reach I really dont think canon will ignore this market, It will have the same AF as the 5dmk3 too and it will cost more and everyone will be sad and unhappy at the price 

I do think 1 crop body will disappear i'm guessing the xxxxD line and rebels will be the new entry level DSLR with 70D mid way


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## ippikiokami (Mar 6, 2012)

kdsand said:


> ippikiokami said:
> 
> 
> > kdsand said:
> ...



What does that have anything to do with the fact you should be able to back up your statement?


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## NaturaLight (Mar 7, 2012)

CR writes "It’s also rumored Canon will regulate the price of this camera starting in May."

That used to be called price fixing, and was illegal...


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## nicku (Mar 7, 2012)

Now that the high ISO samples are available do you think that the price is to high??? i personally don't think so.


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## evenfy (Mar 7, 2012)

NaturaLight said:


> CR writes "It’s also rumored Canon will regulate the price of this camera starting in May."
> 
> That used to be called price fixing, and was illegal...



According to Wikipedia, this is resale price maintenance, and as such not directly price fixing. 

In the US, it is not directly unlawful, and essentially allowed in most commercial situations.

In the EU, resale price maintenance seems to be "generally prohibited".


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## Drama79 (Mar 7, 2012)

evenfy said:


> NaturaLight said:
> 
> 
> > CR writes "It’s also rumored Canon will regulate the price of this camera starting in May."
> ...



Which is fine, given the astronomic markup EU vendors are charging. Picking up my camera in the US is saving me £800. That's with NY sales tax. VAT in the UK is 20%, but that's still a healthy bit of extra profit UK vendors will be seeing, and could play with.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 7, 2012)

Drama79 said:


> evenfy said:
> 
> 
> > NaturaLight said:
> ...


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## bdeutsch (Mar 7, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> the 5Dmk2 IS the low priced full frame its here right now
> 
> the 7D mk2 will be king of the crops with high FPS dusl digics to satisfy all the sports wildlife shooters that want the reach I really dont think canon will ignore this market, It will have the same AF as the 5dmk3 too and it will cost more and everyone will be sad and unhappy at the price
> 
> I do think 1 crop body will disappear i'm guessing the xxxxD line and rebels will be the new entry level DSLR with 70D mid way


I agree. I can't imagine them upgrading the 7d to FF. It's just going to be top of the line crop camera.


Actor Headshots NYC | Gotham Family Photos  | NY Wedding Photos


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## smirkypants (Mar 7, 2012)

bdeutsch said:


> I agree. I can't imagine them upgrading the 7d to FF. It's just going to be top of the line crop camera.


Upgrade. Ugh. Can we stop saying this? To me full frame is almost always a downgrade. There are fewer pixels on target when shooting something at a distance so the image quality is much lower.


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## hallwal (Mar 7, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> bdeutsch said:
> 
> 
> > I can't imagine them upgrading the 7d to FF.
> ...


So by your logic, telephoto lenses are amazing quality, normal lenses are average quality, and wide angle lenses must be downright worst quality imaginable.


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## smirkypants (Mar 7, 2012)

hallwal said:


> So by your logic, telephoto lenses are amazing quality, normal lenses are average quality, and wide angle lenses must be downright worst quality imaginable.


No. The new 22MP only has 8.5MP in the same area as the 18MP found on the 7D. Using the same lens, you'll probably get better IQ with a 7D than a 5D3.


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## briansquibb (Mar 7, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> hallwal said:
> 
> 
> > So by your logic, telephoto lenses are amazing quality, normal lenses are average quality, and wide angle lenses must be downright worst quality imaginable.
> ...



Not so - with the same framing the 22mp will always look better than 18mp. 

FF shooters are clever enough to have the extra reach lens. So 250mm on a 1.6 would be matched against a 400 on a ff. I know which image will have the best IQ.


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## smirkypants (Mar 7, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Not so - with the same framing the 22mp will always look better than 18mp.
> 
> FF shooters are clever enough to have the extra reach lens. So 250mm on a 1.6 would be matched against a 400 on a ff. I know which image will have the best IQ.


Squibby, please. It's unfair to say "well my FF with a lens that costs $7000 more than your lens does better than your crop." 

Put that same 400 on the crop and shoot a subject 100 yards away and we'll see who wins.

I'm curious to see how the 5D3 with a 1.4 extender compares to a 7D without. The extender loses you a stop of light, but that's made up for by the much better ISO performance. The main problem is that you can't put that extender on an f/5.6 lens (or the 100-400mm). 

Of course the 5D3 + 1.4 = almost $4000, which is about what I paid for my refurbished 1D4.


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## ImageZone (Mar 7, 2012)

Hugely disappointed in the price? No, hugely disappointed in the price _AND_ the 5D III. You are definitely not getting your monies worth. I have been a Canon user since before the F-1 35mm. I currently use the 5D and was waiting for the 5D III. I was terribly disappointed in the specs. Canon has definitely shot themselves in the foot. If you want to be emotional about Canon go ahead but, make yourself a Ben Franklin spec comparison list with the 5D III and the Nikon D800. I'm sad, but I'm thinking of switching my gear to Nikon as Canon has gotten to be a big ProMo with a lot of hype and no meat in the sandwich. Another thing why is Canon going to control the price? What happened to free trade? If I were a dealer, sell me the camera at $XX, suggest a MSRP but don't tell me what I HAVE to sell it at. Isn't that a violation of free trade? There goes the competition! Seems Canon is trying to protect the smaller dealers so that the bigger houses don't beat them on price. Well, are they or are they just afraid of losing a lot of dealers because there is a lot of competition. Instead of controlling the price point just sell to ALL dealers at the same price instead of giving quanity discounts. That would level the playing field.
My two cent worth!
Image Zone Photography


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## briansquibb (Mar 7, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Not so - with the same framing the 22mp will always look better than 18mp.
> ...



Fairness doesn't come into this - if you buy a ff then you have to accept the associated costs. So if the budget is not there then you buy the best posiible within the budget. I am not saying the 7D is poor, just that with the right budget the 1DX will be better.

If you really want quality then 80mp MF bodies are available for $40,000 with schneider lens costing as much again. I would love one of these - but I dont have the budget.

You may have noticed I haven't rushed into buying a 1DX nor a 5D3 - just have a used 1D4 and a used 1Ds3. I am not into ultra long reach stuff but with my kit I can get 16mp with the equivalent of 1560mm reach using my used lens - this reach is currently not possible with ff.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 7, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Not so - with the same framing the 22mp will always look better than 18mp.
> ...


well i am really impressed with my 1.4Tc on the 300f4L at 420mm 5.6 on the 5Dmk2 its quite good
i'll get some pics i took with it (note i am not a bird shooting fanatic so the pictures i post may be rubbish by everyone elses standards


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## D_Rochat (Mar 7, 2012)

ImageZone said:


> Hugely disappointed in the price? No, hugely disappointed in the price _AND_ the 5D III. You are definitely not getting your monies worth. I have been a Canon user since before the F-1 35mm. I currently use the 5D and was waiting for the 5D III. I was terribly disappointed in the specs. Canon has definitely shot themselves in the foot.  If you want to be emotional about Canon go ahead but, make yourself a Ben Franklin spec comparison list with the 5D III and the Nikon D800. I'm sad, but I'm thinking of switching my gear to Nikon as Canon has gotten to be a big ProMo with a lot of hype and no meat in the sandwich. Another thing why is Canon going to control the price? What happened to free trade? If I were a dealer, sell me the camera at $XX, suggest a MSRP but don't tell me what I HAVE to sell it at. Isn't that a violation of free trade? There goes the competition! Seems Canon is trying to protect the smaller dealers so that the bigger houses don't beat them on price. Well, are they or are they just afraid of losing a lot of dealers because there is a lot of competition. Instead of controlling the price point just sell to ALL dealers at the same price instead of giving quanity discounts. That would level the playing field.
> My two cent worth!
> Image Zone Photography



Canon may not have designed the camea you were waiting for, but they hardly shot themselves in the foot. The 5D mkIII is currently the top selling body right now, even compared to P&S that are a fraction of the price. Is the price high? Maybe a little, but I think it's worth it.


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## digicV (Mar 7, 2012)

Not disappointed at all. Get used to it.


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## Sinsear (Mar 8, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> ImageZone said:
> 
> 
> > Hugely disappointed in the price? No, hugely disappointed in the price _AND_ the 5D III. You are definitely not getting your monies worth. I have been a Canon user since before the F-1 35mm. I currently use the 5D and was waiting for the 5D III. I was terribly disappointed in the specs. Canon has definitely shot themselves in the foot.  If you want to be emotional about Canon go ahead but, make yourself a Ben Franklin spec comparison list with the 5D III and the Nikon D800. I'm sad, but I'm thinking of switching my gear to Nikon as Canon has gotten to be a big ProMo with a lot of hype and no meat in the sandwich. Another thing why is Canon going to control the price? What happened to free trade? If I were a dealer, sell me the camera at $XX, suggest a MSRP but don't tell me what I HAVE to sell it at. Isn't that a violation of free trade? There goes the competition! Seems Canon is trying to protect the smaller dealers so that the bigger houses don't beat them on price. Well, are they or are they just afraid of losing a lot of dealers because there is a lot of competition. Instead of controlling the price point just sell to ALL dealers at the same price instead of giving quanity discounts. That would level the playing field.
> ...



Stop feeding the trolls. >.<


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## chrysek (Mar 8, 2012)

I am disapointed with the mark 3, why canon included usb 2.0? Looks like wft and gps using usb, will there be a way to connect both at the same time? How about wft, it has gig nic, which is 1000mbit connection, if it connects via usb 2.0 which is less than 500mbit why the hell did they do that? Whats the point? Shape if wft??? Ugly, who will buy this? How about the flash with radio transmiter/receiver, most photographers using already pw or other device, if u have studio you will have both? Canon and other transmiters? What were they thinking


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## [email protected] (Mar 8, 2012)

*Understanding the 5D III Pricing!*

This is my first time on writing on the forums! I have been a fan of the site for several years now and read others post. For a minute now I keep reading how people are disappointed over the mark III's price point. I bought my mark II almost 2 years ago for 2500, which is a grand less than the new one. Maybe someone else can confirm this but when the mark II first came out was it the same price ? Or was it a couple hundred more? That's really irrelevant to my point! People need to look at the worlds economies to really understand this. My opinion is that the dollar is the global currency and when our own government does things like Q.E. 2. That weakens the dollar because they just want to print money, that causes inflation and the price of all goods go up! How much was a gallon of milk when the 5D II first arrived? So maybe if our fiscal house was in order and these stupid politicians balanced the budget and didn't spend OUR money like a drunken sailor (No offense to sailors!) maybe the price wouldn't be as steep as we think it is! Maybe it would only be a 500 jump, and only be a 3000 dollar camera! The cost of everything has gone up! That is my opinion and we all know what opinions are like! Just thought I would give a different perspective on it. Also I am perfectly happy with the mark III specs. A 2stop improvement with a way better focusing system!.... He'll yes! Let's all be honest people are just mad because they want bragging rights over Nikon! In my opinion I really don't want or need a 36 mp body. Way to big of files for me with what I do. That would really slooooow down some machines when processing! .... I will def. be purchasing a mark III!


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## dbduchene (Mar 8, 2012)

Canon has there marketing group as does Sony and Nikon. I can say that at least one of the latter's marketing and engineering teams are VERY happy with the mark 3 and feel that it has truly left a door open for them to gain some market share. They also feel that it was a short term choice that will cost Canon over the long run. Time will tell whos marketing group is right.


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## kdsand (Mar 8, 2012)

Astro said:


> unkbob said:
> 
> 
> > Um, no. In terms of company value, Canon is 3 x as big as Sony and still twice as big as Sony + Nikon combined. Canon also has more employees than Sony
> ...



Interesting?
point brought up in the writing on the wall topic.
I feel sorry for my wallet.
:'(


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## x-vision (Mar 9, 2012)

dbduchene said:


> They also feel that it was a short term choice that will cost Canon over the long run.



My thoughts exactly.


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## gecko (Mar 9, 2012)

What have they been doing for 4 years is an interesting question.

5DIII is an enticing proposition, but the body is heavily 7D and the new AF system is from the 1DX.

Is there much 5DIII specific development?


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## briansquibb (Mar 9, 2012)

gecko said:


> What have they been doing for 4 years is an interesting question.
> 
> 5DIII is an enticing proposition, but the body is heavily 7D and the new AF system is from the 1DX.
> 
> Is there much 5DIII specific development?



The sensor...


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## Sallivres (Mar 9, 2012)

I just pre-ordersd mine, just 2 weeks more to go....


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## well_dunno (Mar 9, 2012)

kdsand said:


> Astro said:
> 
> 
> > unkbob said:
> ...



Conclusion from those figures are drawn a bit too soon I would say: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2011/index.html

Annual profit and number of employees are not the whole story, revenues of Sony are twice of what Canon made in 2011:


Rank Company Revenues Profits
($ millions)	($ millions)
73 Sony	83,845	-3,031

204	Canon	42,246	2,81

2010 shows some similar results:http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2010/index.html
69	Sony 77,696	-439
216	Canon	34,292	1,407

Canon seems more profitable yes, that is known - but Sony has seriously higher business volume...


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## smirkypants (Mar 9, 2012)

well_dunno said:


> Canon seems more profitable yes, that is known - but Sony has seriously higher business volume...


Sony is huge and has its fingers in a million pies (electronics, video games, cell phones, computers, movie studios...). Canon is an imaging company.

I'd imagine what Canon spends imaging dwarfs that of Sony.


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## blackwolf9 (Mar 9, 2012)

So.... what makes everyone think that using the latest camera will greatly affect your photographic quality output?

Shiit it in = shiit out.


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## meli (Mar 9, 2012)

blackwolf9 said:


> So.... what makes everyone think that using the latest camera will greatly affect your photographic quality output?
> 
> Shiit it in = shiit out.



Ah, such an extraordinary wittiness sir i applause you; perhaps you would be so kind as to enrich this mundane forum from time to time with more of these 5th grade gems of yours


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## briansquibb (Mar 9, 2012)

blackwolf9 said:


> So.... what makes everyone think that using the latest camera will greatly affect your photographic quality output?
> 
> Shiit it in = shiit out.



Everyone = a presumption not supported by fact

Quality equipment gives an opportunity to get better quality and IQ. For example better AF means more in focus, better metering means better IQ

Perhaps you have a box Brownie you are acredited to use to cover the Olympics?

If people decide to spend money on expensive equipment - what has it got to do with you?


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## gecko (Mar 10, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gecko said:
> 
> 
> > What have they been doing for 4 years is an interesting question.
> ...



Yep.

Let's hope the comprehensive reviews of production models show 4 yrs R&D in the IQ.

Fingers crossed!


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## Fandongo (Mar 10, 2012)

digicV said:


> Not disappointed at all. Get used to it.



So the 5D IV body will be $4999
5D5, $7500?

Actually, that sounds about right.

$7500 won't even be bad in 2020.
We'll be back to trading chickens and goats.

At least it will be well documented... Though it still won't have full HDMI out.


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## traveller (Mar 10, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> I need some money to buy my 5d MK3 system, will probably buy the 50mm 1.2 and the new 28-70 mm, but i really need some help would you guys be kind enough and donate whatever you can for me to accomplish my dream?



Hello Ken Rockwell, I didn't recognise you at first because of the pseudonym, but the begging for money to support your hobby gives your identity away! Were you planning on making up your mind which camera you prefer this time, or just changing your opinion on a weekly basis like usual?


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## briansquibb (Mar 10, 2012)

traveller said:


> the over the fence guy said:
> 
> 
> > I need some money to buy my 5d MK3 system, will probably buy the 50mm 1.2 and the new 28-70 mm, but i really need some help would you guys be kind enough and donate whatever you can for me to accomplish my dream?
> ...



I know how he feels - just bought a new lens and the family are going hungry


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## canartist (Mar 10, 2012)

*Re: Understanding the 5D III Pricing!*



[email protected] said:


> How much was a gallon of milk when the 5D II first arrived? So maybe if our fiscal house was in order and these stupid politicians balanced the budget and didn't spend OUR money like a drunken sailor (No offense to sailors!) maybe the price wouldn't be as steep as we think it is! Maybe it would only be a 500 jump, and only be a 3000 dollar camera! The cost of everything has gone up!



Really?? what was the cost of your plasma tv, when 5dII first arrived ? How much did your computer/laptop/GPS/any consumer electronics costed when 5DII arrived ? 

Very strange Nikons were immune to your so-called inflation


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## XanuFoto (Mar 10, 2012)

Judging by the poll on this thread, Canon has hit a home run. 42% upgrading thier gear is a very good percentage. And ofcourse once this camera is reviewed well there will be many more that will follow.

For everybody else they have kept the MKII in production.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 11, 2012)

traveller said:


> the over the fence guy said:
> 
> 
> > I need some money to buy my 5d MK3 system, will probably buy the 50mm 1.2 and the new 28-70 mm, but i really need some help would you guys be kind enough and donate whatever you can for me to accomplish my dream?
> ...



ROFL +1 thanks that gave me a good laugh


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## gabriele (Mar 11, 2012)

Well considering that adding a battery grip makes this camera way better than the way more pricey 1Ds Mk III probably that's the reason for the high price.
Still I'd exchange it anytime for my 5D Mk II if I could, but yes it's quite pricey at the moment...who knows maybe in the future.


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## briansquibb (Mar 11, 2012)

gabriele said:


> Well considering that adding a battery grip makes this camera way better than the way more pricey 1Ds Mk III probably that's the reason for the high price.
> Still I'd exchange it anytime for my 5D Mk II if I could, but yes it's quite pricey at the moment...who knows maybe in the future.



Way better? Not so sure about that - particularly up to iso400


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## Abraxx (Mar 11, 2012)

Ohoh
Pre Order Prices for D800 dropping already in Germany.
Lowest I saw between 2490 - 2574 EUR !

5D Mark III still at 3299 EUR.

Both Body only of course. That is quite a difference.

:'(


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## D_Rochat (Mar 11, 2012)

Abraxx said:


> Ohoh
> Pre Order Prices for D800 dropping already in Germany.
> Lowest I saw between 2490 - 2574 EUR !
> 
> ...



This is a good thing. Maybe this sort of competition will force Canon to lower their price a little.


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## Abraxx (Mar 11, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> Abraxx said:
> 
> 
> > Ohoh
> ...



Yes I hope so.


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## gabriele (Mar 11, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gabriele said:
> 
> 
> > Well considering that adding a battery grip makes this camera way better than the way more pricey 1Ds Mk III probably that's the reason for the high price.
> ...



Well actually the 5D Mark II has already a slightly better sensor compared to the 1Ds Mark III (quite subtle in most of the cases but still a little bit better).
Talking about functions of course the 1Ds Mk III is waaaay better than the 5D Mark II, maybe it has something more also compared to the 5D Mark III speaking of functions, but there are also lot of other functions available solely on the 5D Mark III and not on the 1Ds Mark III.
So since the new camera is about 2 stops better than the new one, it would be obviously better than the 1Ds Mark III for noise performance and picture quality, plus you get a better AF and faster burst mode.


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## capertillar (Mar 11, 2012)

i actually got a gold box deal from amazon today to pre-order the D800 for 2850 USD... 5% off the 3000 price... if i were aiming for the d800, i probably would have put in the order

wonder if it'll come around again on the 5d3, i might accept a price of 3325 for the 5d3...


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## briansquibb (Mar 11, 2012)

gabriele said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > gabriele said:
> ...



Well comparing the 5DII and the 1Ds3 upto iso400 the 1Ds3 is clearly better than the 5D2, not by much - but definitely not way worse (DxO measurements)

Better AF for the 5D3 - well more points and the AF point - 1Ds3 is essentially the same as the 1D4. The 5D3 doesn't have the grip nor the weatherproofing. 1Ds3 has AF for f/8 ....

I would be surrpised if in real life you would see any difference in prints between the 5D2/3 and 1Ds3 using iso of 400 or less. It is all too easy to dismiss old technology when shiny new stuff comes out - and easy to overlook the features lost on the way


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## EchoLocation (Mar 12, 2012)

Anyone see that the D800 is at the #22 spot on the Amazon top sellers while the 5DIII has fallen to #83? Seeing the price in the dead center between 3-4k looks a lot less appetizing than seeing a $2xxx to start things off.
I think Canon really missed the boat with their initial price and I don't understand what caused them to think their camera was worth 500 dollars more than the Nikon System(when for the last few years they were firmly lower than Nikon in pricing.)

please, please, please save me the lectures on inflation, exchange rates, etc.... I am simply COMPARING the prices of one camera brand to another which happen to be from the same country.


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## XanuFoto (Mar 12, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> Anyone see that the D800 is at the #22 spot on the Amazon top sellers while the 5DIII has fallen to #83? Seeing the price in the dead center between 3-4k looks a lot less appetizing than seeing a $2xxx to start things off.
> I think Canon really missed the boat with their initial price and I don't understand what caused them to think their camera was worth 500 dollars more than the Nikon System(when for the last few years they were firmly lower than Nikon in pricing.)
> 
> please, please, please save me the lectures on inflation, exchange rates, etc.... I am simply COMPARING the prices of one camera brand to another which happen to be from the same country.


those numbers are all over the place and its only one vendor. Most pros would buy from B&H or Adorama. Its too early to say who will come ahead. All I know is that many D700 guys are not upgrading and not many Canon guys with any serious array of lenses are not panicking and moving over.


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## EchoLocation (Mar 12, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> EchoLocation said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone see that the D800 is at the #22 spot on the Amazon top sellers while the 5DIII has fallen to #83? Seeing the price in the dead center between 3-4k looks a lot less appetizing than seeing a $2xxx to start things off.
> ...


Very true. I doubt there is too much movement either way from one brand to another at this point. 
Compared on the release dates though, I am surprised that the 5DIII is so far behind the D800 in the sales rankings. 
If either brand comes up with a new FF camera between 2000 and 2500 dollars, I think that is what would cause massive sales. I'm still a little shocked that Canon didn't come up with a FF camera for the masses at a more reasonable price point. At 2300 dollars I personally know about 5-10 people who would consider it. All of these people currently use 5D's/60D's/7D or D7000's and don't want to pay 3000 dollars for a camera. It's a huge jump from 1200-1500(computer range of pricing) dollars to 3000 dollars(cheap car pricing.)


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## Musouka (Mar 12, 2012)

Where is the option for I'll wait for the 5DIII's price to drop?

If the market thinks the competition provides the better value, Canon would have a hard time selling these and will have to lower down their prices... remember how the 50D's price dropped quickly after introduction because of the competition from the D300?


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## dwischnewski (Mar 12, 2012)

For all those, who think that the price got higher, here is an interesting article: http://www.eos-network.com/2012/03/cameras-banks-and-the-financial-crisis-or-why-cameras-prices-seem-so-high-these-days/

Confirms my gut feelings. Thankfully someone did the math. Yet, I do not like the "new price" so much myself.


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## BillyBean (Mar 12, 2012)

dwischnewski said:


> For all those, who think that the price got higher, here is an interesting article: http://www.eos-network.com/2012/03/cameras-banks-and-the-financial-crisis-or-why-cameras-prices-seem-so-high-these-days/
> 
> Confirms my gut feelings. Thankfully someone did the math. Yet, I do not like the "new price" so much myself.



Interesting article - except for one thing: its almost completely irrelevent! Customers determine price, dependent on what they wish to pay, alongside the available supply. This is why DVDs and Bluerays are region coded, so that vendors can charge more in countries where people are willing to pay more.

Of course, cameras are not region coded, though Canon try hard with stuff like warranties to pretend they are. So they have choices: reduce volumes to ensure price maintenance, or charge less, or sell harder (promote value). Or a combination of these.

Otherwise, they risk losing money on each sale. It's not unheard of. But to be clear: exchange rates, taxes and suchlike impact Canon's margin, not the price, which is determined by supply and demand. Low demand, high supply -> lower price.

Give it 3 months and we'll see where things stand. The 7D had a huge price drop following launch.


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## gabriele (Mar 12, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Well comparing the 5DII and the 1Ds3 upto iso400 the 1Ds3 is clearly better than the 5D2, not by much - but definitely not way worse (DxO measurements)
> 
> Better AF for the 5D3 - well more points and the AF point - 1Ds3 is essentially the same as the 1D4. The 5D3 doesn't have the grip nor the weatherproofing. 1Ds3 has AF for f/8 ....
> 
> I would be surrpised if in real life you would see any difference in prints between the 5D2/3 and 1Ds3 using iso of 400 or less. It is all too easy to dismiss old technology when shiny new stuff comes out - and easy to overlook the features lost on the way



Personally I stopped looking at DxO measurements and I firmly believe they're quite biased (usually they tend to give more to Nikon than Canon). Beside this, still looking at DxO, the 5D Mk II seems to perform better than the 1Ds3, especially in dynamic range. For low ISO they're pretty much the same, but then the 5D2 becomes better at high ISO.

I found several tests about the 5D2 sensor being better than the one on the 1Ds3, here's one:
http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/canon-1ds-mark-iii-v-s-5d-mark-ii-is-there-is-any-difference-in-image-quality-in-studio-test-run/

Note I'm talking only about picture quality, not functions, AF and so on which are better on the 1Ds3 of course.

In any case this makes the 5D3 better than the 1Ds3 since it is already better than the 5D2 by about 2 stops.


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## Tijn (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm quite eager to see production models popping up and some thorough comparisons being done between the 5D III and the Nikon D800.

As it looks from here, the 5D mk3 is a great camera that combines increased full-frame ISO performance with very decent AF and better build quality. As such it's a clear upgrade from the 5D mk2 on the areas where improvement was most needed.

However, it's priced higher than expected (at $3500) and higher than the Nikon D800 ($3000) as well. Now these are two different cameras, but as they're major competitors it'll be worthwhile comparing them.

As it looks now, most likely Canon has the edge on high ISO performance and burst speed, while Nikon has the edge on low ISO performance and dynamic range. AF might be similarly decent in both bodies. But then, Nikon has a special edition (D800E) without an in-body AA filter, uncompressed video shooting, a lot higher resolution (downsampling will again reduce noise)...

If this turns out to be correct, then the Canon is more specialised for action photography whereas the Nikon has much better landscape photography potential, while still being able to do action (in good light). It's doubtful that this difference explains the $500 price difference, though.
Another thing to note is that Nikon does also have a body for professional action photography (the D4), but Canon now _has no_ body for specialized landscape photography.

I think Canon pushed the price too high in the context of the D800. Not that it'll matter for me, I won't upgrade for at least a year or two anyhow. At the same time however, it does become interesting to see some functionality on both the Nikon and Canon sides. The Nikon D4 has backlit buttons and a function to automatically select a minimum shutter speed based on the focal length you're working at, during automatic exposure. Adding auto ISO to that could a lot of magic tricks. I'd love to see such functionality in the more affordable bodies, also the Canon ones. Can't be too difficult, but it'd be so nice to work with!


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## simonxu11 (Mar 12, 2012)

dwischnewski said:


> For all those, who think that the price got higher, here is an interesting article: http://www.eos-network.com/2012/03/cameras-banks-and-the-financial-crisis-or-why-cameras-prices-seem-so-high-these-days/
> 
> Confirms my gut feelings. Thankfully someone did the math. Yet, I do not like the "new price" so much myself.


The article uses inflation and exchange rate into the calculation and says Canon is a Japanese company. Nothing wrong with that. 
But the D700 was $2999 when it was announced in 2008, *D800 is still $2999 today*, so inflation, banks and the financial crisis have nothing to do with Nikon or Nikon is not a Japanese company??


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## Musouka (Mar 12, 2012)

Here is the thing.... Nikon might not actually be sacrificing their margins with the $2999 price for D800. The cost of technology usually goes down with time. The cost of producing an FF sensor might be much lower than it was 4 years ago. I'm not saying that this is strictly the case but it's a possibility.

Another point: it's correct that the Yen is high. However, other currencies are cheaper for Japanese companies as a result. So it will actually be cheaper for Canon to buy materials from overseas for their products.


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## XanuFoto (Mar 12, 2012)

Musouka said:


> Here is the thing.... Nikon might not actually be sacrificing their margins with the $2999 price for D800. The cost of technology usually goes down with time. The cost of producing an FF sensor might be much lower than it was 4 years ago. I'm not saying that this is strictly the case but it's a possibility.
> 
> Another point: it's correct that the Yen is high. However, other currencies are cheaper for Japanese companies as a result. So it will actually be cheaper for Canon to buy materials from overseas for their products.


Nikon does not make their own sensors. They buy them from Sony. Canon makes their own and I assume their prices would be lower then what Nikon pays. I don't know whats the reason for the Canons pricing. Maybe they really do not want to sell that many units at a loss.


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## Cali_PH (Mar 12, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> Nikon does not make their own sensors. They buy them from Sony. Canon makes their own and I assume their prices would be lower then what Nikon pays. I don't know whats the reason for the Canons pricing. Maybe they really do not want to sell that many units at a loss.



I was thinking this could be the reason for the $500 cost difference, actually, or at least part of it. Sony may have spent less $ than Canon on R&D for their sensor. Plus I'm guessing they're using it themselves in their own cameras (or a variation of it?) and can recover costs from consumers that way, as well as selling to Nikon. So to me it's possible what they're charging Nikon is less than Canon is trying to recover for both the R&D & manufacturing prices. Just guessing, haven't seen anyone post any numbers.


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## briansquibb (Mar 12, 2012)

gabriele said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Well comparing the 5DII and the 1Ds3 upto iso400 the 1Ds3 is clearly better than the 5D2, not by much - but definitely not way worse (DxO measurements)
> ...



I just dont see the numbers that support your conclusion - up to iso 400 the 1Ds3 is better than the 5D2 - from the DxO tests.

The native iso on the 1Ds3 is 1600.

I dont see that having 2 stops more improves the IQ as DR starts dropping of at about iso 800, regardless of sensor.

Having both bodies to compare against each other I have found, to me, that the 1Ds3 gives much smoother graduations of skin tones at iso 400 and less than the 5D2. You would expect that as the 1Ds3 was aimed at studio use.

As I said initially, I doubt if there would be obvious differences on prints with the iso up to 400.


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## WarStreet (Mar 12, 2012)

In the last 3 or 4 days, the D800 took the 1st place on amazon.com again, while 5DIII was second. I just checked again now, and the D800 is still no.1, the expensive D4 @ no.3 and 5DIII @ no.4

Considering that Canon has more users than Nikon, and that very few actually switch brands (usually), and that the Nikon cameras were available on Amazon for more days (Although there was a pause in sales for some days), these numbers are not that positive for Canon. Amazon is just one seller, but I think they are big enough to get an idea of what is going on. 

If this trend proves to be true, and if it is long term sustained after the cameras are available and tested, might be possible that after the initial big demand diminish compared to their supply, Canon might decrease their price.

Don't get me wrong, I love Canon, and the 5DIII is great and I am going to get it, but we can't consider this camera overall better than the D800. They are nearly on the same level with differences which might prove better for some or others. I shoot sports, and the extra 50% odds to get a better shot with the 6fps is a preference for me, but certainly not better overall, and not worth the extra $500. 

Although there are users which are willing to pay more than $3500 for the 5DIII due to personal value, overall this camera can't reach this value and the market (at least Amazon) is showing it. Again, this is good for us for a possible price decrease earlier than thought. Or is just wishful thinking ?


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## Axilrod (Mar 12, 2012)

It's possible that Nikon is pricing the D800 very aggressively in an effort to take Canon's users. You have to look at camera bodies like video game systems, they sell you the body, but we all know you can't do jack with just a body. You have to buy lenses, flashes, batteries, and other accessories. Maybe in Nikon's eyes they're simply giving up $500 initially because they know they'll get thousands more out of it in the future. Just a thought.


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## unfocused (Mar 12, 2012)

> Considering that Canon has more users than Nikon, and that very few actually switch brands (usually), and that the Nikon cameras were available on Amazon for more days (Although there was a pause in sales for some days), these numbers are not that positive for Canon. Amazon is just one seller, but I think they are big enough to get an idea of what is going on.



I would be careful about drawing overly broad conclusions, especially given this early in the sales cycle. The 5DIII was at the top of the list for several days during the initial rush for pre-orders. During some of that same time the Nikon D800 wasn't even available for orders on Amazon, so at that time, it looked to some as though the 5D was doing far better than the D800. 

Now, the rush for the 5D has died down a bit and the Nikon is again available for order, so the pent-up demand is a bit reversed. Absent some solid and specific numbers, about the only conclusion that can legitimately be drawn is that both cameras seem to be selling quite well. Once the initial demand is satisfied, if one were to monitor the rankings over six months or so, it might give a bit more accurate picture of the relative popularity of each model. But, at this stage of the game, it's really a case of garbage-in garbage-out as far as this data is concerned.


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## gabriele (Mar 12, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I just dont see the numbers that support your conclusion - up to iso 400 the 1Ds3 is better than the 5D2 - from the DxO tests.
> 
> The native iso on the 1Ds3 is 1600.
> 
> ...



Well looking on the graphs on DxO you see the dots are perfectly aligned between 1Ds3 and 5D2 on ISO tests, but then the 5D2 gains quite a good margin after 400ISO, which is something to notice.
You have also to consider different custom styles between cameras with different settings (as it is also noted in my previous post with the link the 1Ds3 tends to oversaturate the reds).
As I was saying before since there's apparently no difference in ISO performance below 400ISO between 5D2 and 1Ds3, the new one is going to be better especially at high ISO.
If you can shot at 1600 ISO with the same quality of 640 and you need it, wouldn't you say it's a better sensor (and also with slightly better resolution)?


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## Stvx (Mar 12, 2012)

3500 USD is cheap.

In Norway it is on pre-order everywhere at 4900 USD !!!  Insane...

Even if you add 25% VAT on the US price, the Norwegian price is still 525 USD more expensive.
Shame on you, Canon Norway and/ or retailers.


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## briansquibb (Mar 12, 2012)

gabriele said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I just dont see the numbers that support your conclusion - up to iso 400 the 1Ds3 is better than the 5D2 - from the DxO tests.
> ...



I dont know what figures you are reading the DxO site but when I do the comparison up to iso 400 then the 1Ds3 is ahead of the 5D2

Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Overall Score 79
Portrait (Color Depth) 23.7 bits
Landscape (Dynamic Range) 11.9 Evs

Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III
Overall Score 80
Portrait (Color Depth) 24 bits
Landscape (Dynamic Range)12 Evs

The area which 5D2 is ahead is the high iso. I am not concerned about taking pictures of 1600 and above - 2 stops better only relates to noise - there is no DR benefit.

I am not concerned about this - I have both the 1Ds3 and the 5D2 and I know from experience which is best for me - the 1Ds3.


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## gabriele (Mar 12, 2012)

Look at the graphs not just the final numbers.
11.9 vs 12 is no big deal.

By the way you're missing the point: I'm saying the 5D3 will be better than the 1Ds3 and at a lower price, don't you agree with this?


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## XanuFoto (Mar 12, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> It's possible that Nikon is pricing the D800 very aggressively in an effort to take Canon's users. You have to look at camera bodies like video game systems, they sell you the body, but we all know you can't do jack with just a body. You have to buy lenses, flashes, batteries, and other accessories. Maybe in Nikon's eyes they're simply giving up $500 initially because they know they'll get thousands more out of it in the future. Just a thought.


Pros who run a business do not operate that way. i.e. spend 1000's on changing systems to save 500 dollars. That would be "Penny wise, pound foolish".


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## briansquibb (Mar 12, 2012)

gabriele said:


> Look at the graphs not just the final numbers.
> 11.9 vs 12 is no big deal.
> 
> By the way you're missing the point: I'm saying the 5D3 will be better than the 1Ds3 and at a lower price, don't you agree with this?



Lower price - no, because the 1Ds3 is only available used now and is not much more in the UK than the new 5D2. The indications so far is that at low ISO the 5d3 is not better than the 1Ds3.

If you need high ISO then clearly the 5D3 will be better - unless you also need AF at f/8 (as I do)

Bottom line is that all 3 bodies are very good - perhaps when the 5D3 is delivered and tested we might get a better idea of the 5D3's performance - I very much doubt that your assertion that it is 'way ahead of the more pricey 1Ds3' will prove true


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## gabriele (Mar 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gabriele said:
> 
> 
> > Look at the graphs not just the final numbers.
> ...



You have to be fair and compare the price of a new body to the price of a new body, when the 1Ds3 came out was way more expensive than the actual price of the 5d3, which I suspect, will be lowered to 3200.
The f/8 thing is not final yet, beside you will only need it using lenses less bright than f/4 used with a 2xTC, 5D3 looks better than the 1Ds3 under so many aspects:
Focusing system
ISO performance for sure and probably dyanamic range
Burst mode
Video mode and connections
HDR
Ev bracketing
Flash control
Screen (probably irrelevant matter though).

So if you just put a battery grip on a 5D3 you'll get an overall better camera than a 1Ds3 at a better price.


----------



## meli (Mar 13, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> blablablabla, the only thing i know atm is that the XPro1 might produce images better than the 5DMarkus the 3rd.
> even have a better focus( this kidding Canon whores), well D800 wasn't really what a wanted but hey i don't to pay the £2399 on a 24-70mm so i think ill pass this time for Canon, thanks for the 550d btw. PS: say f/8 bye bye.



back to your cave troll (get a 5dmk3, that 102.800 iso might be handy in there)


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## EchoLocation (Mar 13, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> It's possible that Nikon is pricing the D800 very aggressively in an effort to take Canon's users. You have to look at camera bodies like video game systems, they sell you the body, but we all know you can't do jack with just a body. You have to buy lenses, flashes, batteries, and other accessories. Maybe in Nikon's eyes they're simply giving up $500 initially because they know they'll get thousands more out of it in the future. Just a thought.


This. If the 5DIII was the same price as the 5DII, I would have bought the 24-70 II and the 5DIII in the next 9 months.
However, after sticker shock with the 24-70, the sticker shock of the 5DIII was really just disconcerting for me. I am not spending over 5k on camera gear anytime soon.
I will probably wait for a few months and see about the possibilities of a 2k-2500 dollar FF camera being released by either company, or simply buy a D700 and the Nikon 24-70 in the summer.
If Canon wants to put premium pricing on their lenses i'd expect very competitive pricing for their cameras.
What I don't understand is how they can go from being priced below Nikon across the board to being priced above Nikon across the board in one wave of product releases.


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## briansquibb (Mar 13, 2012)

gabriele said:


> You have to be fair and compare the price of a new body to the price of a new body, when the 1Ds3 came out was way more expensive than the actual price of the 5d3, which I suspect, will be lowered to 3200.
> The f/8 thing is not final yet, beside you will only need it using lenses less bright than f/4 used with a 2xTC, 5D3 looks better than the 1Ds3 under so many aspects:
> Focusing system
> ISO performance for sure and probably dyanamic range
> ...



You have it your way - I am sticking to my 5D2 priced series 1.

F/8 is the real bonus to me - yes I do use the 2x on a F/4 lens or is it a 1.4 x on a 5.6? That was a dealmaker for me

All the other things you mention are not relevant to me - as I said I use this at iso400 or less for studio type work. I dont do video either.

I feel you have no experience of a 1Ds3 and certainly none of a 5D3 so your 'way better than a 1Ds3' is not based on fact or experience just hearsay and a spec sheet.


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## Seamus (Mar 13, 2012)

I pre-ordered on the 2nd and I have no regrets. Sure it would be better if was cheaper, but (for me) I think it is worth it. Love reading all the post, lots of differing opinions and ideas. Keep it up, the 22nd is getting closer! ;D


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## gabriele (Mar 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> You have it your way - I am sticking to my 5D2 priced series 1.
> 
> F/8 is the real bonus to me - yes I do use the 2x on a F/4 lens or is it a 1.4 x on a 5.6? That was a dealmaker for me
> 
> ...



I have quite a good experience with 5D2 and not such a long experience with 1Ds3 but I used it for some time.
I didn't notice picture quality difference (and I've been using it at low ISO).

The weird thing is that you say you don't use ISO more than 400 but then you say you need focus at f/8, this somewhat doesn't make sense beside maybe you shoot always under direct sunlight or in a studio where I doubt you'll ever need a TC, also why on your signature it says EOS 40D + 18-55 + 55-250?
I don't get how you say you use a 1Ds3 and a 5D2 but not nice lenses, I mean the only very good lens that won't work used together with a 1.4xTC is the 800 f/5.6L.
Notice also how the new AF is still better than the old one as the review on CR homepage today is noticing, so maybe f/8 is not everything and in any case you don't know if things will change with a firmware update, as Canon said they're considering it.
Other thing is that I checked the prices of the old 1Ds3 on eBay...welll they range from $4,450 to $4,750 and those are mainly used bodies so tell me how is that less expensive than a 5D3 which new comes at $3500.
No one told you to change your camera, I would be happier too if the 5D3 was less expensive and this is why I'm not switching yet, but I was only mentioning facts.


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## caMARYnon (Mar 13, 2012)

Here, pre-order price already dropped to 3300 euros (from 3,680 euros). At this rate, in two weeks will cost the same as D800


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## briansquibb (Mar 13, 2012)

gabriele said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > You have it your way - I am sticking to my 5D2 priced series 1.
> ...



My sig shows the 40D because I have one

I also have a couple of long white lens and flash. Put the two together and you end up shooting outdoors at F/8 @ 1/2000 @1200mm without a problem. Try 100-400 + 1.4 for a f/8 - perhaps ypu dont consider the 100-400 good?

I have never said that I have poor lens - in fact the only non L lens I have are the 50 f/1.4 and the 85 f/1.8 apart from my 2 old ef-s that came with my old 40d.

I am not suggesting the 5DIII is poor - just disagreeing with your statement that the 5DIII is 'way better' than the 1Ds3. If I was to replace the 1Ds3 it probably would be with a 1DX and keep my 1D4 as a backup.


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## briansquibb (Mar 13, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> Thats because the real price of the 5dMarkus the 3rd. should lower than the D800 because it is a inferior camera in many aspects like build quality, AF system, F/8 support, hdmi free feed, atm seems that even the lenses will cost less even thou they are better, we all know that the video will be better on the 5d, but hey, we have dx support so we can shoot at 16mp if we want, and also have the crop power which is a plus for landscapes and PP, 5d will be more like a workhorse, but the d800 will be more like a specific public type, it would't be a biggy if all Canon lovers knew that the 5d Markus the 3rd. was better than the D800, but they don't know, that's why they complaint about the price, otherwise they would just have said: It is ok at least we have the better product. ATM i see more Canon fans upset with Canon than Nikon fans upset with Nikon, hell it is even more than Xpro1 fans, at least they know what they are getting. Just look at this thread it has 32590 Views so far, this is just as much as the thead that shows the 5d specs.



Do I detect a Nikon troll?


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## briansquibb (Mar 13, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> you do thats why i have a 550d and a 7D, because im a Nikon troll



Your post reads as if you are unhappy with Canon and you would like to be with Nikon - so that would not be unreasonable.


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## xROELOFx (Mar 13, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > the over the fence guy said:
> ...


dude, you know the video you have posted is a comparison between the 5D mark II (<-- look closely, that's 2) and the D800. not the 5D mark III right?


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## iso79 (Mar 13, 2012)




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## gabriele (Mar 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gabriele said:
> 
> 
> > briansquibb said:
> ...



So let me recap: you say you own a 1D4, a 1Ds3, a 5D2 and a 40D and since you say you reach 1200mm at f/8 this makes me think you use a 600 f/4 which is a uber expensive lens, and then you comment about 3500 bucks being a lot? And also why you put in your signature your worst camera with worst lenses?
But also, I would like to know how you get 1/2000 at f/8 at 400ISO if not only under strong sunlight. Also I would like to know what do you do with a 1200mm lens and a flash, what kind of pictures do you take?
I never said 400ISO is bad, what I said is that the old 5D2 behaves practically the same as the 1Ds3 at low ISO (so 1Ds3 is no better than 5D2 in picture quality at low ISO), but behaves better at high ISO and that the 5D3 is 2 stops better than the 5D2 so even way better than the 1Ds at high ISO, also I underlined the new features of the 5D3 which makes it better than the 1Ds3:

WAY better performance in low light
Better AF (as said already f/8 could be not that important and it's not final since Canon said they're considering this matter).
1 fps faster
Slightly better resolution
Way more functions also including multiple exposures, HDR, more options for braketing, better screen and so on.
Better overall price even considering the used market the new 5D3 is at least 1000 dollars less expensive than an used 1Ds3.

You can say whatever you want but you know that a 5D3 (without considering the apparently so important for you f/8 focus) with a battery grip is a better overall camera compared to a 1Ds3.


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## briansquibb (Mar 13, 2012)

gabriele said:


> And also why you put in your signature your worst camera with worst lenses?



Because I want to. When I put the full list I got flamed and accused of being a rich kid




gabriele said:


> But also, I would like to know how you get 1/2000 at f/8 at 400ISO if not only under strong sunlight.



As I said before - I use flash



gabriele said:


> WAY better performance in low light



I dont use low light which is why thoughout I qualified myself with the shooting at 400iso or less



gabriele said:


> You can say whatever you want but you know that a 5D3 (without considering the apparently so important for you f/8 focus) with a battery grip is a better overall camera compared to a 1Ds3.



I dont know this at all and neither do you at this point - you are guessing. You stated that the 5D2 gave better performance than the 1Ds3 and that has been proven erroneous.

I suggest this debate is terminated now

As I said I have nothing against the 5D3, it looks like a nice camera but at this point for me there are few if any benefits to be gained without losing some of the series 1 functionality.


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## takoman46 (Mar 14, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> Im because i was expecting a bit more from the 5d, especially if im using a 7d, it would be a small improvement.



I don't understand this. You currently use a 7D and you don't think the 5DmkIII is a big improvement from your 7D? ???

Have you used a 5DmkII before? If you have, you would know that the 5DmkII is a beast of a camera in terms of ISO performance and IQ. It lacks the speed of the 7D and 19pt AF. I have a 7D and 5DmkII and am now selling my 7D because the 5DmkIII is here. At least to me, the 2 fps more I get out the 7D doesn't justify keeping it around.

So how can the 5DmkIII be a small improvement over the 7D? It is a significant improvement over the 5DmkII IMO; which was a already a lot better than the 7D... Try out a 5DmkII and compare the IQ and ISO performance to your 7D. It's night and day ;D


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

takoman46 said:


> the over the fence guy said:
> 
> 
> > Im because i was expecting a bit more from the 5d, especially if im using a 7d, it would be a small improvement.
> ...



Totally agree, sold my 7Ds because of the poor IQ compared to my 5D2


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

Ardea said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Totally agree, sold my 7Ds because of the poor IQ compared to my 5D2
> ...



I dont think it is an appropriate response to be rude to someone just because they have done something that you dont approve of.

If you have been following the threads on this forum you would have spotted that I am into low iso images, flash and printing - so your comments are doubly out of order.


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

Ardea said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Ardea said:
> ...



Wrong again


----------



## takoman46 (Mar 14, 2012)

Ardea said:


> Dude, take pictures of something other than toenails in the dark and your will see that their really isn't that much IQ difference. Especially if you actually ever print the pictures, you will see that the gains are to a significant part imaginary.



You don't need to take low light photos to see the difference between the 5DmkII and the 7D. Even in well exposed shots where I'm blowing flash, the 5DmkII kills the 7D in IQ. The amount of detail dwarfs what the 7D produces. The 5DmkII FF sensor is just that much better even though it is older tech. You may not think so, but the difference was apparent enough for me to immediately recognize that I was not particularly impressed with the 7D IQ in comparison to my 5DmkII. I bought the 7D for the 8fps and because I was curious about the 19pt AF. The gains are not imaginary. If you have a 5DmkII and a 7D then I can agree to disagree that our standards are clearly different and that's fine. But I wouldn't be so bold as to claim that the 7D can hang with the 5DmkII or 1DSmkIII for that matter (being that the latter 2 FF bodies have comparable IQ) in terms of IQ in any given light. That's laughable.


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

Ardea said:


> takoman46 said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need to take low light photos to see the difference between the 5DmkII and the 7D. Even in well exposed shots where I'm blowing flash, the 5DmkII kills the 7D in IQ. The amount of detail dwarfs what the 7D produces. The 5DmkII FF sensor is just that much better even though it is older tech. You may not think so, but the difference was apparent enough for me to immediately recognize that I was not particularly impressed with the 7D IQ in comparison to my 5DmkII. I bought the 7D for the 8fps and because I was curious about the 19pt AF. The gains are not imaginary. If you have a 5DmkII and a 7D then I can agree to disagree that our standards are clearly different and that's fine. But I wouldn't be so bold as to claim that the 7D can hang with the 5DmkII or 1DSmkIII for that matter (being that the latter 2 FF bodies have comparable IQ) in terms of IQ in any given light. That's laughable.
> ...



Use a longer lens ie for a 250 on a 1.6 will give the same framing as a 400 on a full frame.

21mp of the 5D2 gives a higher resolution than the 7D so a 5D2 with a 400 will always be better than a 7D with a 250.


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

Ardea said:


> Which would you rahter carry up a mountian? A 300 3=2.8 or a 400 2.8? A little waith makes a hug =e deal!!!!



Up a mountain I would take a wide angle


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## takoman46 (Mar 14, 2012)

Ardea said:


> takoman46 said:
> 
> 
> > Ardea said:
> ...



Define real world shooting please? Also, I'm not going off of charts and stats... I stated earlier that I have a 7D and a 5DmkII. So based on my experience shooting with both bodies, the 7D is getting sold because it is really not needed now that the 5DmkIII is coming out. You're living in some kind of fairy tale land where the 7D "kills" the 5DmkII. I dunno if you heard the saying... but "once you go full frame, you can't go back" is true lmao.If you're a nature shooter then maybe you would like a crop sensor for the extra reach. But nature photography is only a small fraction of what is considered real world shooting (i.e. weddings, portraits, landscapes... basically every type of photography that is not shot in controlled studio settings). You can believe whatever you want to believe, I'm not stopping you... but don't make blasphemous claims that are logically and reasonable untrue. That's crazy talk lol


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## takoman46 (Mar 14, 2012)

Is the 7D your god?  

Believe what you want in your narrow minded and twisted version of reality. BTW, I pray to my 5DmkII on a little shrine in my living room every night before I go to sleep.


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## xROELOFx (Mar 14, 2012)

@Ardea
wtf is wrong with you?! stop bitching and go outside, take some pictures!


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## takoman46 (Mar 14, 2012)

xROELOFx said:


> @Ardea
> wtf is wrong with you?! stop bitching and go outside, take some pictures!



+1


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## gabriele (Mar 14, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Because I want to. When I put the full list I got flamed and accused of being a rich kid
> unctionality.



Well you skipped all the other questions and answered in a manner that also you tainted the questions you tried to answer to me.

You didn't tell me what kind of pictures you take when shooting with a 1200mm lens with a flash at f/8 ISO 400, this makes me quite curious.

You don't consider the 52D better in picture quality than the 1Ds3 because you don't want to consider better performance in low light as a pro, ok do as you wish but still you can't say the 1Ds3 performs better because as you can also see in DxO graphs they're EXACTLY the same at low ISO.

And it hasn't been proven erroneous that the 5D2 gives better performance than the 1Ds3, this because you don't want to consider high ISO. If you don't want to consider something as a pro is your own thing, but it's not objective. If I let you notice the pros of a camera and you don't want to see them is another matter.
If you use long lenses and you don't need high ISO performance I really don't see the point for you to own a FF camera, even worse you say you own 2 FF cameras. The point of FF cameras is mainly using wide angle lenses and have better picture quality especially at high ISO and possibly a better bokeh.
You'd better use just a 7D or a 1D4 and end this since FF seems not suited for your uses.

The only functionality you're supposed to lose (and it's not for sure since as I already said Canon said it's not final) compared to a 1D series with the 5D3 is the f/8 focus, all the other things are gains.
But since you say own more cameras than a camera store I don't think getting another one just to have fun will be a problem for your big fat wallet (of course if what you say is true).


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## gabriele (Mar 14, 2012)

Ardea said:


> It's funny that hwne you washx clithes what really comes out imn the dryer.



What about writing in english so everybody could understand you?


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## te4o (Mar 14, 2012)

gabriele said:


> Ardea said:
> 
> 
> > It's funny that hwne you washx clithes what really comes out imn the dryer.
> ...



He is using his smartphone and that's what the automatic correction does to it: just like the clothes from the dryer ;D


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## gabriele (Mar 14, 2012)

And what is that supposed to mean and who is it for?
I just noticed that briansquibb even said that he had a 7D and exchanged it for a 5D2 for picture quality.
While I agree with this it doesn't still make sense if he says he owns all the other pro bodies (1Ds3 1D4) and he says that for him 5D2 picture quality is inferior to the 1Ds3 (even though we know it's not true and also graphs on DxO show this).

By the way, I'll end up here, there's a saying: "there's no worse deaf than who doesn't want to listen".


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## dbduchene (Mar 14, 2012)

I have only shoot my 7D in low light once and it was VERY LOW light trying to shoot a night water polo match at a HS that did not have many lights. Shooting full day light with nothing but L series lenses I have been very happy with my 7D. In the very first playing with it when I got it I found that it did not look good with anything but my L series lenses. I kind of expected that do to the pixel density. The lower cost lenses just do not resolve well with the many Pixels in the little size. 

Anyways here comes the smites I guess as I am again saying that I am happy with both camera as long as I use good glass


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## briansquibb (Mar 14, 2012)

gabriele said:


> I just noticed that briansquibb even said that he had a 7D and exchanged it for a 5D2 for picture quality.



You need to read it again - I already had the 5D2 and bought two 7D because everyone was recommending it. The IQ was poor incomparison to the 5D2 so I sold them and bought a 1D4 - this was in september 2011. It is so irritating when people misquote me.

@Ardea You are wrong in everything you say. DxO say that the 1Ds3 is better than the 5D2 up to iso400 which is the maximum I use the 1Ds3 for. Why would I use the 1Ds3 in low light when I have a 1D4? 

Why should I tell you what I am [email protected] with flash? If I choose to use ff that is my choice - it is the way that Canon is going - hence the 5D3 and the 1DX

You say I should use ff for wide angle - well I have been shooting with wide angle all afternoon as I will be on Friday. On Saturday and Wednesday the long lens will be out.

@Ardea + @Gabriele I may do things which you disapprove or disagree with - but that doesn't make me wrong or you right to flame me because I choose to exercise my right of free choice in how I spend my money


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## AprilForever (Mar 15, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> Ardea said:
> 
> 
> > takoman46 said:
> ...



Mr. Fence, how do you have as many smites as posts?


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## gabriele (Mar 15, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gabriele said:
> 
> 
> > I just noticed that briansquibb even said that he had a 7D and exchanged it for a 5D2 for picture quality.
> ...



Haven't read you saying you sold one 5D2 for 2 7D (you could have tried just one before getting 2 logic says)...by the way today I've been to the Canon official event where they presented 5D3, 1DX and C300.
The Canon representative himself told me that 5D3 is better compared to a 1Ds3.

Why I want to know what do you shoot at 1200mm f/8 ISO 400 with flash? Well because I'm really curious about this combination and really what kind of pictures would you ever want to take with such a setup.
Still today Canon guys told me about the f/8 focus and the way focus works, they preferred to do it this way because an f/8 sensor is bigger than an f/5.6 thus they wouldn't have been able with the actual technology to stuff so many focus points on the sensor.
What kind of pictures would you take with AF at f/8 1200mm BTW? A 600mm is quite a heavy lens so you'd probably use it on a gimbal head, to subject that don't move too much, so there's the chance you could still use manual focus.
In any case they told me that there's still the chance that the central AF point might still work with some selected lenses even if f/8 (but they didn't tell me which ones).
You seem also not clear about what do you want: do you want speed? Do you want quality? Do you want full frame or crop? What kind of pictures do you take mainly?

Also final thing since you seem blind at the graphs on DxO I'll post them here so you can see how 5D2 has better IQ than Ds3 (as also the canon representative said and like lot of people and tests can confirm).

Why would you use the 1Ds3 in low light when you have a 1D4?
This underlines that you haven't understood that FF cameras perform better in low light: a 1Ds3, a 5D2 or 5D3 are surely better than a 1D4 in low light-high ISO situation.

Here your tests where you can see how 1Ds3 is not better than 5D2: as you can see the 1Ds3 has more dynamic range than the 5D2 only at 100ISO, after that the 5D2 beats the 1Ds...beside the fact the difference at 100ISO is really marginal. This is why you shouldn't look only at the final numbers but at the whole graph.


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## agierke (Mar 15, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > the over the fence guy said:
> ...



thats a test of a 5D mrk2 vs the D800. but whatever....you seem generally confused about alot of things.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 15, 2012)

gabriele said:


> Haven't read you saying you sold one 5D2 for 2 7D



That is because I didn't say that



gabriele said:


> Why I want to know what do you shoot at 1200mm f/8 ISO 400 with flash? Well because I'm really curious about this combination and really what kind of pictures would you ever want to take with such a setup.



Wild life



gabriele said:


> Still today Canon guys told me about the f/8 focus and the way focus works, they preferred to do it this way because an f/8 sensor is bigger than an f/5.6 thus they wouldn't have been able with the actual technology to stuff so many focus points on the sensor.
> What kind of pictures would you take with AF at f/8 1200mm BTW? A 600mm is quite a heavy lens so you'd probably use it on a gimbal head, to subject that don't move too much, so there's the chance you could still use manual focus



Birds in flight, no chance for manual focus




gabriele said:


> You seem also not clear about what do you want: do you want speed? Do you want quality? Do you want full frame or crop? What kind of pictures do you take mainly?
> 
> Also final thing since you seem blind at the graphs on DxO I'll post them here so you can see how 5D2 has better IQ than Ds3 (as also the canon representative said and like lot of people and tests can confirm).



Well the 1ds3 scores higher than the 5D2 in everything except the high iso. The 1ds3 is a far better camera than the 5D2 in more than IQ



gabriele said:


> Why would you use the 1Ds3 in low light when you have a 1D4?



I take pictures in low light - but with iso no higher than 400

I also take pictures with the 1D4 in low light with the iso up to 1600 - although sometimes higher if needed for the shot 



gabriele said:


> This underlines that you haven't understood that FF cameras perform better in low light: a 1Ds3, a 5D2 or 5D3 are surely better than a 1D4 in low light-high ISO situation.
> 
> Here your tests where you can see how 1Ds3 is not better than 5D2: as you can see the 1Ds3 has more dynamic range than the 5D2 only at 100ISO, after that the 5D2 beats the 1Ds...beside the fact the difference at 100ISO is really marginal. This is why you shouldn't look only at the final numbers but at the whole graph.



I think you are talking rubbish - you clearly dont understand my comments and constantly misquote/ misunderstand/misread what I am saying


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## zhap03 (Mar 15, 2012)

Nikon just reduced the price of the D800 in Canada. Retailers originally had it listed at $3149 CAD, now it's only $2999 CAD. Maybe Canon will follow suit?


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 15, 2012)

gabriele said:


> Still today Canon guys told me about the f/8 focus and the way focus works, they preferred to do it this way because an f/8 sensor is bigger than an f/5.6 thus they wouldn't have been able with the actual technology to stuff so many focus points on the sensor.



Sorry, but you either misheard, or more likely, the Canon rep was talking BS and doesn't understand such things, either. An f/8 sensor has a narrower baseline than an f/5.6 sensor, so it actually takes up less space on the sensor. Doesn't mean they could fit them in, but that's reality - the narrower the aperture, the more tightly spaced the lines. 

To see what I mean, compare an f/2.8 sensor with an f/5.6 sensor - see the diagram below, look how far apart the f/2.8 lines are compared to the f/5.6 lines.


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## gabriele (Mar 15, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> gabriele said:
> 
> 
> > Still today Canon guys told me about the f/8 focus and the way focus works, they preferred to do it this way because an f/8 sensor is bigger than an f/5.6 thus they wouldn't have been able with the actual technology to stuff so many focus points on the sensor.
> ...



Well sensors aren't just about their sensitivity, but also the type of sensors, points, cross type, diagonal and so on. Apparently they couldn't fit it with this kind of configuration to keep the focusing system as good as the new one.
If an f/8 sensor was always smaller, don't you think they could just put all f/8 sensors accross the whole frame? It would have been awesome, but probably they don't work as well as f/2.8 or f/5.6 sensors.

@briansquibb: wow so you take pictures to birds at 1200...using a flash?
I totally understand taking pictures at birds with 1200...but really quite difficult if handheld...but I don't get the use of a flash for wildlife at 1200mm.

So you prefer taking pictures at high ISO up to 1600 with the 1D4 instead of using the 1Ds that you say you use only up to 400ISO ??

I don't talk rubbish, tell me where I misquoted you, I can't read your mind I just read what you write.
What is that you don't like about the graphs beside denoting how the 5D2 is better than the 1Ds3?
In SNR 5D2 is better than 1Ds3 at every ISO settings.
In dynamic range 1Ds3 is slightly better than 5D2 at ISO 100, then becomes equal at ISO 160 and then 5D2 wins on all the other ISO settings.
Tonal range they're pretty much the same with the 5D2 slightly better.
This is what the graphs say.

By the way as matter of a fact I tried the 5D3 today and is an AWESOME camera. It totally beats 1Ds3 and 5D2, it is soooooooooooo AWESOME! You should really try it. I tried also the 1DX, but due to the price is not for me. Maybe one day I'll get the 5D3, but I see the 1DX far away at the moment.


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## briansquibb (Mar 15, 2012)

gabriele said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > gabriele said:
> ...



To honest Gabriele I dont care at for what you say. 
I dont care if you think the 5D2 is better than the 1Ds3
I dont care that you dont know how to take flash at 1200mm

You know nothing about me, my kit, my experience or the types of photos I take

Just back off please


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## gabriele (Mar 15, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> To honest Gabriele I dont care at for what you say.
> I dont care if you think the 5D2 is better than the 1Ds3
> I dont care that you dont know how to take flash at 1200mm
> 
> ...



Think as you wish, I was relying on numeric data and graphs to be objective.
I don't care either, you can use whatever you want, have fun, just next time don't believe in people suggesting you a crop camera like a 7D over a 5D2 for best IQ.
If I don't know what kind of pictures you take is because you didn't want to tell before nor to answer my questions.

Bye, have fun and please stop clicking on smite at each of my post. if that is you as I suspect.
I didn't do it to you but I suspect it's you.


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## briansquibb (Mar 15, 2012)

gabriele said:


> If I don't know what kind of pictures you take is because you didn't want to tell before nor to answer my questions.



That just proves you dont read my posts correctly


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## briansquibb (Mar 15, 2012)

the over the fence guy said:


> If I don't know what kind of pictures you take is because you didn't want to tell before nor to answer my questions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





gabriele said:


> @briansquibb: wow so you take pictures to birds at 1200...using a flash?
> I totally understand taking pictures at birds with 1200...but really quite difficult if handheld...but I don't get the use of a flash for wildlife at 1200mm.



Gabriele told me what I took then complained I didn't tell him. I suppose you didn't read it either


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## Orion (Mar 16, 2012)

Another perspective on the price increase:


http://blog.planet5d.com/2012/03/why-is-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-more-expensive-than-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-ii/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Planet5dBlog+%28Planet5D+Blog%29


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 16, 2012)

The D800 looks way better there, but it doesn't seem fair that they seem to have shot the D800 from much closer in. Maybe if they had shot the D800 from farther out it would have had bad moire too?




the over the fence guy said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > the over the fence guy said:
> ...


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## gibbygoo (Mar 16, 2012)

As a professional, $500-$700 is a huge price difference----for whom, I don't know. Maybe for professionals who actually aren't professionals. By that I mean talented or not talented photographers who don't pay their rent with their camera work. Fact is, if you are a professional, the price difference is negligible. I'm a full time pro. I'm far from rich. I'm reasonably talented, but not that great. And the last thing I care about as part of my business is the price of a single capture device. If you can't shoot professional studio work with a 5DII, you should look for a new line of work. Now we have the 5D3 with lots of nice improvements. Done. End of story. When you complain about a 4-year, $700 price swing, you are actually making a statement about yourself. The statement is that you are a penny pinching hobbyist who likes to spend inordinate amounts of time on blogs to complain about the minutia of gadget specs. If you're not a professional, that's fine, maybe a 7D or 60D would be a better choice for you. Or just switch to Nikon. Doesn't sound like you have much invested in Canon, anyway. I'd love to see a survey of posters on this thread who even qualify for CPS.


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## briansquibb (Mar 16, 2012)

gibbygoo said:


> I'd love to see a survey of posters on this thread who even qualify for CPS.



Yep - I am platinum CPS


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## pyzon (Mar 16, 2012)

FYI Amazon have reduced the price of the D800 from 2399 to 2099.....Canon will have to strike back dont' you think?


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## gabriele (Mar 16, 2012)

pyzon said:


> FYI Amazon have reduced the price of the D800 from 2399 to 2099.....Canon will have to strike back dont' you think?



I just checked Amazon.com where what I can see is: $2,999.00 instead of $2,999.95...wow nearly 1 dollar discount, are they crazy? They will become poor this way lol!


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## pyzon (Mar 16, 2012)

Dude there's life outside the USA....this is Amazon.co.uk - sorry I should have pointed that out...2399 downt to 2099 Sterling...! the MKIII is what 2999.....(Sterling)

Turns out to have been an error on Amazon's part, they have corrected the price back to 2399Sterling, those that ordered it for 2099, got a nice 300Sterling discount.....!!


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## iaind (Mar 16, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gibbygoo said:
> 
> 
> > I'd love to see a survey of posters on this thread who even qualify for CPS.
> ...



UK CPS Silver but would qualify Platinum in US.


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## thure1982 (Mar 16, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gibbygoo said:
> 
> 
> > I'd love to see a survey of posters on this thread who even qualify for CPS.
> ...



And I'm Silver. No biggie after a couple of years shooting and gathering gear. I will never be platinum because I keep selling my old body's and you need to own 3 to become platinum.

EDIT:
Also... Is this thread still going? Buy one or don't... 
Min is ordered and I'm eagerly awaiting its arrival. I bought it in Sweden from a friend who owns a camera-shop. He gave me the same price he would have to give plus handling-fees.

30 500 Swedish kronor = 4 528.3 U.S. dollars
That is the cheapest you can get it in my country.

SO STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT F*****G $3500


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## kdsand (Mar 18, 2012)

thure1982 said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > gibbygoo said:
> ...



Its Ironic How some people say the money doesn't matter because the product is worth it..... Yet at the same time they take measures to find the best price.
Should not these so called pros or individuals with money to burn purchase directly from canon so that canon will make the maximum profit? 

This logic is actually confusing me.


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## piotr.c (Mar 18, 2012)

thure1982 said:


> 30 500 Swedish kronor = 4 528.3 U.S. dollars
> That is the cheapest you can get it in my country.
> 
> SO STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT F*****G $3500



Please visit Poland - it will costs about 13.000 PLN (1 EUR = 4PLN, 23% VAT) where average monthly income is about 2.500PLN (600 EUR) .. so please everybody stop complaining about prices    In Poland you need to work for almost 6 months without eating, drinking & paying for rent if you want to buy 5D3 ...


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## briansquibb (Mar 18, 2012)

kdsand said:


> Its Ironic How some people say the money doesn't matter because the product is worth it..... Yet at the same time they take measures to find the best price.
> Should not these so called pros or individuals with money to burn purchase directly from canon so that canon will make the maximum profit?
> 
> This logic is actually confusing me.



I aim for the best kit but make sure that I get the best deal when buying it - my pension only goes so far ....

I have only bought 2 new cameras new, a 50D and 5D2. Have only bought two new lens as well - 70-300L and the 8-15 . The lens and bodies were for specific projects. 

The first 5DIII will start turning up on the used market by the end of 2012 at a price that is cheper than a new D800 at which time I will consider replacing the 1Ds3 - which I bought used to carry me over the time till the 1DX/5DIII became available. The 1Ds3 has proved to be such a good camera that the replacement may be delayed further until the high mps body becomes available.

Here is a picture from yesterday taken with used 1Ds3 and used 600/f4 IS. This was taken on the straight with servo tracking - so the AF is up to it as the kart was coming at me at about 40mph. Why do I mention this? Well the 5DIII AF is going to be at least as good as this as is the IQ - so I could see the 5DIII slotting in instead of the 1Ds3 but in these circumstances I am not so sure what benefits I would gain.

1/500, iso 100, f/4, ec -1


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## Cali_PH (Mar 18, 2012)

It's a bit misleading; the guy said it was "5dMarkus the 3rd," but the name of the video specifies the 5dmark2, as well as the captions in the video itself. Of course, I suppose the mark3 may have the same moire issues, but from what I've read it's supposed to be improved.



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The D800 looks way better there, but it doesn't seem fair that they seem to have shot the D800 from much closer in. Maybe if they had shot the D800 from farther out it would have had bad moire too?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Enthusiast (Mar 21, 2012)

We should be aware how currency ratios developed in the last 4 years before we are discussing prices:

Since 2008 Euro and Dollar lost 40% against the Yen, that´s a fact and not made by Canon! It´s caused by the financial crisis caused by the western countries and we should say thank you to our own polititions and bankers and not blaming the Japanese companies. For them it´s a burden! It´s hard to sell for a higher price to compensate currency related losses and you never get a full compensation normally. 
Nikon is in a bit different position here, because they get their main components from Japan but do the D800 assembly in Thailand. Euro and Dollar only lost 20% against the Bath in the last 4 years. 

All the cheap bodies are made in China. Chinas currency is bounded to the Dollar by the Chinese government to keep Chinas competition advantage against the States and Europe. This costs our jobs here and is something should end as early as possible. 
I´m working in a globalized business and have to deal with these things all day. I say thank you to Canon that they keep the 5D production in Japan due to quality and innovation reasons and will pay they price they are asking for. 
Last Friday I had the chance to take my hands on on and it´s a fantastic gear. Esspecially the silent mode will make photos possible, you needed a Leica before. You will not bother anybody anymore. My one is preordered and I´m waiting everyday all day long.


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## Mike Miami (Mar 21, 2012)

I think the reason for the $3499 price tag is because if Canon had the msrp to match or beat the D800, people who are deciding to get or not to get the 5D III or the 5D MK II might be more tempted to get the 5D III, if it were priced lower. That would slow down alot of the sales of the remaining 5D MK II's. Yes it is still not officially discontinued yet, but will be. How many people would buy a discontinued product for $2000 with the fear of no new firmware updates, decreasing replacement part supply, probably no new accessories announced?

When the stock of 5D MK II's starts to dwindle then we might see a small decrease in the 5D MK III price, to better compete with the D800.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 23, 2012)

agreed, it seems the AF may be radically better, but the video mode is apparently still only half fixed, the low iso not improved one itty bit and even the high iso might not be as improved as first thought, so why again is it not the old $2700 price if it is mostly just a big AF fix?

for $2700 i might jump now, i woul dhave for $3500 without a thought if they had improved low iso dr, even just a stop, and fully fixed video mode, but since it seems they did not, man $3500 does seem over priced.


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## kdsand (Mar 23, 2012)

gibbygoo said:


> As a professional, $500-$700 is a huge price difference----for whom, I don't know. Maybe for professionals who actually aren't professionals. By that I mean talented or not talented photographers who don't pay their rent with their camera work. Fact is, if you are a professional, the price difference is negligible. I'm a full time pro. I'm far from rich. I'm reasonably talented, but not that great. And the last thing I care about as part of my business is the price of a single capture device. If you can't shoot professional studio work with a 5DII, you should look for a new line of work. Now we have the 5D3 with lots of nice improvements. Done. End of story. When you complain about a 4-year, $700 price swing, you are actually making a statement about yourself. The statement is that you are a penny pinching hobbyist who likes to spend inordinate amounts of time on blogs to complain about the minutia of gadget specs. If you're not a professional, that's fine, maybe a 7D or 60D would be a better choice for you. Or just switch to Nikon. Doesn't sound like you have much invested in Canon, anyway. I'd love to see a survey of posters on this thread who even qualify for CPS.



Dear Goo

Your insults are received likely by substantial number of people here. This camera is designed for new professionals and enthusiast or as you eloquently say *"penny pinching hobbyist"*. I am forced to admit your post is the first 1 that has literally turned my stomach - I feel utterly disgusted.

Since you claim to be a working professional (regardless of whether you're "not very good" as you yourself state) I fail to see why someone of your caliber(?) is taking issue regarding a camera geared for the very people you so disdain and insult.


Mister or misses Goo I certainly hope you read this.

Canon's words not mine.

The EOS 5D Mark III is Canon's answer to hundreds of thousands of advanced amateurs and emerging professionals looking for a compact, high-quality camera system to help them achieve their artistic vision, whether it be through still or video imagery. The EOS 5D Mark III introduction coincides with Canon's 25 th anniversary celebration of the EOS camera system.


Now my opinion

Goo
You talk out of your butt and thus you are full of crap.


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## wockawocka (Mar 23, 2012)

Well whatever, these things aren't selling as well as to be expected.

I've been watching ebay prices all week and here in the UK, retailers are £2999, UK based importers are around £2650-£2850 and I bought one from Hong Kong yesterday for £2400.

It makes me want to cancel my 1Dx pre order if prices are fluctuating that much.

Even the cheaper uk based ones from Digital Rev are £2699 and not one has sold. In the UK you still can't get the bodies on their own either so demand for them should be higher.


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## briansquibb (Mar 23, 2012)

gibbygoo said:


> As a professional, $500-$700 is a huge price difference----for whom, I don't know. Maybe for professionals who actually aren't professionals. By that I mean talented or not talented photographers who don't pay their rent with their camera work. Fact is, if you are a professional, the price difference is negligible. I'm a full time pro. I'm far from rich. I'm reasonably talented, but not that great. And the last thing I care about as part of my business is the price of a single capture device. If you can't shoot professional studio work with a 5DII, you should look for a new line of work. Now we have the 5D3 with lots of nice improvements. Done. End of story. When you complain about a 4-year, $700 price swing, you are actually making a statement about yourself. The statement is that you are a penny pinching hobbyist who likes to spend inordinate amounts of time on blogs to complain about the minutia of gadget specs. If you're not a professional, that's fine, maybe a 7D or 60D would be a better choice for you. Or just switch to Nikon. Doesn't sound like you have much invested in Canon, anyway. I'd love to see a survey of posters on this thread who even qualify for CPS.



-10

I worked for 40years to earn my money, years when I worked day and night and my photography hobby was kept on low heat. Now I am retired I will spend my savings the way I want - how dare you suggest that I should stick to a 7D or a 60D. 

A penny pinching hobbyist I might be but I would hazard a guess that I have more kit than the average pro - and I am a platinum CPS.


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## BillyBean (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm amazed at how heated this discussion has got! It is obvious that there are two quite distinct communities out there - those professionals who use their cameras hard, rely on excellent results, and can justify a few hundred dollars or pounds on top of the price for the savings in time and quality they will get - that's fine, it makes sense. And then there are folks like me, who save their pennies, and enjoy their photography, and are somewhat annoyed by the price, when we had expected it to be lower. That's fine too. Room for both opinions.

But don't you think Canon *know* this split? And take advantage of it? What's the best way, apart from having multiple camera lines (which they do to excess at times)? Well, easy - introduce a new camera at a price much higher than you think the larger market will stand. All the 'price is no issue' crew pile in with pre-orders, and when the demand drops off, you drop the price to soak up the remainder and keep the factories busy, based on initial demand levels and unsold stock. Easy. And ruthless. But did you really expect anything different from a large company? Banks don't have a monopoly on greed, you know.

Have a look at this graph, showing 7D introduction price trends, from CamelCamelCamel:


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## MazV-L (Mar 24, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> gibbygoo said:
> 
> 
> > As a professional, $500-$700 is a huge price difference----for whom, I don't know. Maybe for professionals who actually aren't professionals. By that I mean talented or not talented photographers who don't pay their rent with their camera work. Fact is, if you are a professional, the price difference is negligible. I'm a full time pro. I'm far from rich. I'm reasonably talented, but not that great. And the last thing I care about as part of my business is the price of a single capture device. If you can't shoot professional studio work with a 5DII, you should look for a new line of work. Now we have the 5D3 with lots of nice improvements. Done. End of story. When you complain about a 4-year, $700 price swing, you are actually making a statement about yourself. The statement is that you are a penny pinching hobbyist who likes to spend inordinate amounts of time on blogs to complain about the minutia of gadget specs. If you're not a professional, that's fine, maybe a 7D or 60D would be a better choice for you. Or just switch to Nikon. Doesn't sound like you have much invested in Canon, anyway. I'd love to see a survey of posters on this thread who even qualify for CPS.
> ...



There's appears to be a small percentage of pros that resent hobbyists or those just starting up as pros, resent them their gear, their talent.
Fortunately most are not like that, actually go out of their way to be helpful, I've found.


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## briansquibb (Mar 24, 2012)

MazV-L said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > gibbygoo said:
> ...



I have more problem than most as I do a lot of pro bono work which the pros translate as me taking away their jobs. It isn't because if I didn't do the photos the pictures would be Uncle Bob phone specials.


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## MazV-L (Mar 24, 2012)

Lol, I've replaced Uncle Bob on quite a few occasions ;D

If a Pro is known for their style, and are very good at what they do, have good people skills are confident and have happy clients who keep coming back and recommend the pro to their friends why should they feel threatened ???

How do the local portrait photographers feel when the travelling photographers drop-in to their local shopping centre with all their props and start taking lots of cute cliche kids/ baby photos for relatively cheap. I'm sure the good ones aren't worried, competition can be good, means one has to do better.


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## ewg963 (May 10, 2012)

*Re: IM FED UP OF PEOPLE COMPLANING ABOUT THE 5DIII PRICES. *



00Q said:


> I'm fed up of reading this forum today and hearing people complaining about the 5DIII pricing. Did you ever think it was going to sell for less than $2500? The prices will be lower when it hits the high street stores when it first comes out. But most importantly,
> 
> 1) Do you NEED a 5DIII?
> 
> ...


You shut up!!!


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## briansquibb (May 10, 2012)

To much whining - lets have some good news ;D


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