# Tripod Advice



## pharmaphotog (Dec 28, 2013)

I'm looking to invest in a tripod and I'm seeking some input. I have done a fair amount of reading on various sites, including this forum, about tripod selection. Generally speaking, I know that tripods have only two out of the three properties: cheap, light, sturdy. After consideration, I've found the Manfrotto MK294C3 to be an intriguing option. However, there are few reviews on Amazon and B&H that tell me much.

It is a carbon fiber, three-section tripod with a quick release ball head. It has a 11 pound capacity and weighs 4 pounds.

Most of my interest is landscape and I travel quite extensively. I use a 5D3 and my heaviest lens is the 70-200 f/2.8 mk2. I do anticipate eventually getting a longer lens, but not likely anything longer than 400mm. 

This seems to be a cost effective option; however, if it won't do the job, then I'm not interested. I'm curious if anyone has any insight based on either experience with the product or ability to evaluate the specifications.

Thanks for your time.


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## Don Haines (Dec 28, 2013)

pharmaphotog said:


> I'm looking to invest in a tripod and I'm seeking some input. I have done a fair amount of reading on various sites, including this forum, about tripod selection. Generally speaking, I know that tripods have only two out of the three properties: cheap, light, sturdy. After consideration, I've found the Manfrotto MK294C3 to be an intriguing option. However, there are few reviews on Amazon and B&H that tell me much.
> 
> It is a carbon fiber, three-section tripod with a quick release ball head. It has a 11 pound capacity and weighs 4 pounds.
> 
> ...


I think the 11 pound limit is for the ball head, not the tripod legs......


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 29, 2013)

I'll state up front that while I haven't used this set, I started with a Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 and 488RC2. The legs in the set you mention seem equivalent to the 190CXPRO3 (Don, the specs of the CF legs alone say 11 lbs, at least on B&H). Manfrotto legs are generally a good value - decent quality, good price. 

For the head, I'd really recommend going with an Arca Swiss type head - Really Right Stuff (RRS), Kirk, Markins, Acratech, or Arca Swiss (not Manfrotto or Gitzo) are the way to go, IMO. It's the closest to a 'universal' mounting system out there. 

I had a couple of Manfrotto ballheads. The 'standard' ones (498RC2, etc) have a bit of both 'settle' and 'drift'. Settle is when the head droops a bit immediately after you lock it down. The 488/498 can settle by up to ~5°, depending on load. It makes precise positioning a challenge. Drift is when the head droops over time, and the 488/498 do that a bit, as well. I had the Manfrotto 468MG hydrostatic head for a while - that's a much better head. It still settled, but much less - only 1-2° at most, and no drift. By comparison, my small RRS head (BH-30) has <0.5° of settle with a moderate unbalanced load (70-200/2.8 with 2x or extended 28-300L, for example) and no drift, and my full size RRS BH-55 simply doesn't move after locking it down, even with a 1D X + 600 II. 

As for plates, there are issues with both some Manfrotto plates themselves, and with compatibility. I find with the common RC2 there is that there is some play in the clamp/plate junction. It has a secondary locking pin, so there's no risk of it coming out, but 'locked down' isn't - the plate can be shifted in the clamp when it's locked. That further complicates precise positioning, and is likely a source of vibration. Manfrotto does have better plates/clamps - both the hexagonal RC0 and the large, rectangular RC4 clamp much more firmly. But both of those designs are larger than the bottom of even a large dSLR and thus they stick out, and putting them on a tripod collar is even worse. The Arca Swiss-type clamp locks onto the plates like a vice. Also, none of the Manfrotto plates have dedicated anti-rotation features (other than friction, meaning you've got to really crank the plates tight, and sometimes they still twist under the camera). Most AS-type body and lens plates have engineered anti-twist. 

Why a 'universal' mounting plate? Say you get into macro photography and want a macro rail - you can use the built-in Arca dovetail that almost all of them have directly with your AS-type clamp...or screw in another Manfrotto plate (and Manfrotto's rail is kludgy, plus you'd have to screw in a plate anyway). Say you want to do proper panoramic shots (not just pan your ballhead, but actually rotate around the nodal point to avoid parallax) - Manfrotto's pano heads are decent...and they use the RC0 hexagonal plates. If you're using RC2 or RC4, they don't fit. Same story for other accessories (flash brackets, etc.), where the good ones directly mount to an AS clamp/plate.

Probably the biggest reason to choose Arca Swiss type heads over Manfrotto is to use an L-bracket. If you shoot in portrait orientation, having the load balanced over the head is much more stable than using the drop-notch. Manfrotto's relatively recent attempt at designing an L-bracket was pretty much a failure, the functional ones are all AS-type. I do a lot of landscape pano shooting with the camera in portrait orientation. 

Personally, I got fed up with the RC2 plates and lack of L-bracket first, swapped a Wimberley C-12 clamp onto my 468MGRC2, and replaced the 234RC on my monopod with a 234 + Wimberley C-12. The combo of Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 legs, 468MG head with the Wimberley clamp was pretty good, the only downside was it was a little too long for carryon luggage - I had to remove the head. I subsequently went all RRS, and couldn't be happier. My travel tripod is the RRS TQC-14 + BH-30 LR, in its dedicated quiver bag fits perfectly in my Storm im2500 carryon hard case. It's light, stable, and easy to use (but not cheap - as you said, you have to pick two of the three).


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## Kiboko (Dec 29, 2013)

My own observation of tripod reviews is that there's one aspect of their operation that's rarely if ever commented on, - I even went so far as to complain to one particular photographic mag. after a tripod review about their lack of information regarding this particular aspect, not that they've since taken any notice of me. That's the manner in which the bracket on which the camera is mounted is hinged, - in which direction the hinge drops for portrait orientation of the camera. I take my photo's looking through the viewfinder with my left eye. Finding it difficult to close my right eye for a prolonged period I generally hold my eyelid down with my thumb to close it. I raise my right arm up above the camera to operate the shutter. I'm comfortable doing this, it seems (to me) to be the natural way. To do that requires the hinge to drop down to the left, so that the camera in the vertical (portrait) orientation is located to the left of the tripod. When I replaced my aging Velbon tripod a couple of years ago I found that all the new models, from virtually every manufacturer, hinged to the right, thus the shutter button was located at the base of the camera and I had to stoop in a very uncomfortable manner with my right arm lowered in order to take a picture. It also had an adverse effect on the visual aspect of taking a picture in so much as I found it was my right eye that fell naturally to the viewfinder, without stopping even lower down. I hope that makes sense and I've explained that clearly. So ensure you're happy with the side to which the camera hinges in the portrait orientation when selecting your tripod, - I purchased an Opticron birders' tripod which satisfied my needs.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 29, 2013)

Kiboko said:


> My own observation of tripod reviews is that there's one aspect of their operation that's rarely if ever commented on, - I even went so far as to complain to one particular photographic mag. after a tripod review about their lack of information regarding this particular aspect, not that they've since taken any notice of me. That's the manner in which the bracket on which the camera is mounted is hinged, - in which direction the hinge drops for portrait orientation of the camera....
> 
> I hope that makes sense...



Sorry, no - it makes no sense. The reason no one comments on it is that it's a non-issue. The ballhead has a drop notch (some have two, at 90° relative), if the notch is placed on the left, the shutter button is up, if the notch is placed to the right, the shutter button is down. But *you* choose the notch placement when you set up the tripod, so if you want it on the left, just put it there! You can either turn the whole tripod, or if the head has a pan lock, loosen that and rotate the head. The tripod, the pan lock, and the ballhead all have 360° of rotational freedom - there's no 'side' for the drop notch. The only 'sidedness' is where the manufacturer's logo is placed - but who cares which way that faces when shooting?

Maybe I'm completely missing your point, but I think your explanation was clear, and you're creating a problem where none exists.


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## brad-man (Dec 29, 2013)

If you pick up an L bracket for your camera, you'll never have to deal with the dreaded "southpaw notch syndrome". There are many a fine photographer convalescing in their dotage with humped backs and twisted outlooks because they didn't think an L bracket was needed.


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## Jamesy (Dec 29, 2013)

I have two tripods, both of which have Arca-Swiss clamps. When I bought my first setup, I wanted to buy once for life but I ended up buying a second tripod for travelling and love them both.

First tripod:
Gitzo 2531EX CF legs, Markins M10 rated at 40Kg and a RRS quick release clamp.
-- This rig is awesome and depending who you talk to - would be rated up to a 70-200. Your 400mm may need 3 or 5 series legs but I will let others chime in on that. When I clamp the head down it does not budge, AT ALL, no droop or over compensation requiired.

Second (travel) tripod:
Benro C1681 Travel Angel - comes in under 3Lbs and holds my 5D3/70-200/F4/IS just fine. Great quality and if I had it all to do agaiun I may have saved my money on the first tripod and gone with a Benro 2-Series instead.

Whatever you decide, Arca-Swiss is the way to go, IMHO.


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## Kiboko (Dec 29, 2013)

Sorry but it's not a non-issue. I haven't got a ball head, I've not used one, the tripods I see in my local camera stores are usually basic Velbons and the like. They come with a mounting bracket for the camera already attached, it hinges one way. Turning the tripod round does not make any difference whatsoever. The old Velbon was a left-handed hinge, the new ones are right-hinged. The new Opticron birding tripod hinges to the left. It makes all the difference in the world.


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## Kiboko (Dec 29, 2013)

Old Velbon, left-handed hinge, camera drops to the left, shutter button of camera will be at top . New ones opposite way round, (illustrated). You can't make it go the other way from the way it's designed! And it makes a HUGE difference to the user if it's the wrong way for them. I guess those who buy a separate ball and socket jobbie don't face this problem, but we're not all singing and dancing high-spec photographers, some of us just buy the best we can afford and at times that might mean a basic consumer-grade product, a complete entity in itself, doesn't come with or need add-on bits.


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## Don Haines (Dec 29, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'll state up front that while I haven't used this set, I started with a Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 and 488RC2. The legs in the set you mention seem equivalent to the 190CXPRO3 (Don, the specs of the CF legs alone say 11 lbs, at least on B&H). Manfrotto legs are generally a good value - decent quality, good price.


I am surprised it is that low, but good to know.... Thanks!



neuroanatomist said:


> I had a couple of Manfrotto ballheads. The 'standard' ones (498RC2, etc) have a bit of both 'settle' and 'drift'. Settle is when the head droops a bit immediately after you lock it down. The 488/498 can settle by up to ~5°, depending on load. It makes precise positioning a challenge. Drift is when the head droops over time, and the 488/498 do that a bit, as well. I had the Manfrotto 468MG hydrostatic head for a while - that's a much better head. It still settled, but much less - only 1-2° at most, and no drift.


That matches my experience with their ball heads.... I found that using a 400mm lens, the camera would settle by almost the height of the frame after you tightened it in place. I have a gear-head that works much better than the Manfrotto ball heads... In fact, I have a pair of Manfrotto ball heads that have not been used in several years... I really do not recommend them....


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 29, 2013)

Kiboko said:


> Sorry but it's not a non-issue. I haven't got a ball head, I've not used one, the tripods I see in my local camera stores are usually basic Velbons and the like.



Got it. Your issue is a non-issue for a ballhead. Since the OP indicated a ballhead kit, your problem would not be one the OP would need to consider - it would have helped if you'd indicated you were talking about a pan-tilt head. 

I'd never recommend a pan-tilt head like that for a dSLR, they're intended for use with a camcorder, primarily. FWIW, there are Manfrotto tripod+ballhead kits with a quick release clamp for under $100.


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## Kiboko (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm not technically minded, to me a tripod's a tripod, it holds the camera steady when I take a shot. What more could anyone want? Go into any photographic shop in the UK and you'll see these. My advice holds good for anyone buying a simple normal tripod and whilst it might be of little or no consequence to the original posters query it will probably be of use to anyone thinking of buying an ordinary tripod, especially here in the UK. Other people read these forums because the subject matter under discussion appears to be relevant to them, not just the OP looking for an answer to something specific. In most discussions people will give an account of something that they see as material, when it may not be entirely. It makes for interesting discussion. In my case I was trying to point out something that may catch the unwary out, it's not something most people give a thought to but they will find out when they come to use it. Not everyone wants to (or can afford to) spend a large amount of money on a specialist piece of equipment that in many cases is used solely on the odd occasion. To my mind, ball & socket tripods are somewhat specialised. I don't know anyone who uses one, whatever they might cost in the States you can assume they're a lot more here in the UK! Most tripods sold by UK dealers are of the sort I've depicted, the simple Velbon, Manfrotto, - they're the bread & butter sales products.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 29, 2013)

Kiboko said:


> I'm not technically minded, to me a tripod's a tripod, it holds the camera steady when I take a shot. What more could anyone want?



How about a tripod where you don't have to worry about 'handedness'? 



Kiboko said:


> Go into any photographic shop in the UK and you'll see these. My advice holds good for anyone buying a simple normal tripod and whilst it might be of little or no consequence to the original posters query it will probably be of use to anyone thinking of buying an ordinary tripod, especially here in the UK.



They're common in discount department stores here in the states (e.g., Target, Walmart - like your Tesco and Asda). Mall photo stores (Ritz) generally have some, too, along with other 'brandless' gear. 'Real' photo stores (if you see a 5DIII and a few L lenses in the cases, you're in the right place - Calumet is one example that's on both sides of the Atlantic), will have a selection of ballheads. 

Here's what Adorama has to say about heads, excerpted from their article on choosing a tripod:

[quote author=Adorama]
Heads generally come in three different configurations: 

a ball head, which allows smooth movement at any angle with one adjustment
a still camera head, which has three distinct controls for panning the camera left/right, up/down and orienting the camera in portrait or landscape configurations.
If your tripod head has only one arm that allows the camera to be panned up and down, you have a video tripod head.
[/quote]

If we're going to treat this thread as the title implies - general advice for someone buying a tripod - I'd start by advising against getting a video head for still photography. 

I'm sure lots of people have a cheap Velbon/Vanguard/Targus tripod with a pan head that they bought when starting out - and I'm sure that the majority of those are gathering dust in a closet after they were found to be inconvenient and/or provide inadequate support. 

A good read on how _not_ to choose a tripod is here:

http://bythom.com/support.htm


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## zim (Dec 29, 2013)

Haha. I guess they didn't make video cameras with tiltly flippy swivilly screens back then, can't see any reason for them to have changed other wise?

This one's best part of 30 years old and still going strong.

Sorry a 'bit' off topic but I thought I was just about the only person left with one of these


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## rs (Dec 30, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Kiboko said:
> 
> 
> > Go into any photographic shop in the UK and you'll see these. My advice holds good for anyone buying a simple normal tripod and whilst it might be of little or no consequence to the original posters query it will probably be of use to anyone thinking of buying an ordinary tripod, especially here in the UK.
> ...


Kiboko - all the big internet camera retailers with showrooms have tripods with ballheads on display. If you're not near one of them, all Jessops stores have them. Calumet and LCE are other chains to consider. If none of those are local to you, even medium sized Currys/PC World stores have tripods with ballheads for you to play about with.

If you happen to live in a rare part of the UK where you're nowhere near any of the above, just read reviews before you order what you need online. If you shop around for a good deal, prices here aren't as bad as you make out once you take into account our sales tax is included in the purchase price.

Here's a good place to start for prices: http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Tripods

There are some known brand tripods with ballheads for as little as about £50 listed there, with free delivery. If weight capacity and height aren't an issue for you, £30 or so is possible. I wouldn't use such wobbly tripods myself, but if you're on a tight budget, there's no reason to not have a ballhead, even in the UK.

ps - what about mounting your camera on the head backwards? Then the right lean becomes a left lean. The pan/tilt bar will poke out of the front, but if you're not using an ultra wide lens, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.


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## sagittariansrock (Dec 30, 2013)

pharmaphotog said:


> I'm looking to invest in a tripod and I'm seeking some input. I have done a fair amount of reading on various sites, including this forum, about tripod selection. Generally speaking, I know that tripods have only two out of the three properties: cheap, light, sturdy. After consideration, I've found the Manfrotto MK294C3 to be an intriguing option. However, there are few reviews on Amazon and B&H that tell me much.
> 
> It is a carbon fiber, three-section tripod with a quick release ball head. It has a 11 pound capacity and weighs 4 pounds.
> 
> ...



The Manfrotto's specifications are closest to the Gitzo 0-series, which is recommended for up to 135mm lenses. 
[Of course, I understand Gitzo specifications are very conservative]

I'd say, if you are planning to get up to 400mm lenses, maybe you should think of Gitzo 3-series or equivalent? For Manfrotto, that would be at least a 055 (ideally 057) series. And those Manfrotto legs are heavy (and heavier, respectively)!


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## brad-man (Dec 30, 2013)

If the OP is still out there, you have received much good advice and some good suggestions. Keep in mind that when determining whether the tripod is tall enough for you to use comfortably, you should not include the height of the center column as it introduces too much instability. Get a ballhead that uses Arca Swiss compatible camera/lens plates. If you would like some actual product suggestions that will be helpful, you need to say what your budget will allow.


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## alexanderferdinand (Dec 30, 2013)

@ zim: I own one very similar. But its worn out, everything is loose.
And it was too small AND heavy.

Me and tripods: had a Manfrotto 055XProb. Heavy.
Now I have a Sirui 3204 (yes, chinese). Same height. Carbon.
This I carry now with me.


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## mackguyver (Dec 30, 2013)

alexanderferdinand said:


> Me and tripods: had a Manfrotto 055XProb. Heavy.


This is what I carry after shattering more than one carbon fiber tripod :'(. It's beat to crap, dented and scratched, has sand in the legs (even after dis-assembly and cleaning) but refuses to die. It's a heavy beast, though.

+1,000 on the Arca Swiss advice. Better to buy decent legs and a great head. I spent a ton on RC2 heads and plates and lost my shirt selling them when I realized I needed A/S gear. RRS makes great stuff 

Also, one of my Manfrotto heads had a 100 or 110 degree portrait drop which was irritating as all get out when trying to get level horizons. WHY OH WHY would anyone want that???


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## pharmaphotog (Dec 31, 2013)

Many thanks to all of the responses. It sounds like the legs may adequately address my needs. Most of my shooting is <50mm in focal length since my scope of photography is mainly landscapes. I'm quite grateful for the information regarding the AS ballhead. 

Neuro, I'm always astounded about how much knowledge you have about gear. Thanks for sharing your opinions and your reasoning behind them.

Most of my travel is by air, so this is one limitation that I must deal with. I'm 5'8", so height is not necessarily a big concern. 

My purchases typically come from Adorama, B&H, and Amazon. I'm unsure if these are the best retailers to be looking at when looking for the ballhead and plate. I'm open to suggestions.

Again, thank you to all for your input and happy new year.


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## sagittariansrock (Dec 31, 2013)

B&H and Adorama will have Gitzos on sale for one more day (Dec 31). Something to consider. I got a $ 190 discount on my GT2541.


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