# AF problem at BIF 7DII



## xps (Apr 17, 2016)

I am using the 7DII, 1.4 extender and the 600mm II 4 combination for some weeks now. When shooting BIF, only each 3rd or 4th picture is sharp. First I thought, it is my fault, but colleagues have the same problem with my body. Stationary birds are crispy sharp, but if the subject is moving, the AF gets in trouble. I sent it to Canon, but Canon refused an fixing, because the AF works and the pictures are sharp. So i phoned again, and I was told, they test the AF function on stationary objects. 

I am really dissatisfied,as the 7DII seems to be the problem (working with 7DII´s from friends causes no problem - exept one 7DII that has AF troubles too). (By the way, I received a newsletter from canon where the 7DII&600mm combo is 800€s off - on the day, when I ordered both things Canon Germany refused to make such an rebate in the whole year 2016    )

Has someone an idea, how I can convince Canon to have an better look on my cam?


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## BeenThere (Apr 17, 2016)

My experience shooting BIF (handheld),using the 7Dii and 400mm DO ii : with 1.4 III am getting about 1/3 of images sharp; w/o 1.4, getting about 1/2 of images sharp. Not great, but not terrible either. This was over many different lighting situations and many different aspects of bird flight. How are others doing with AF on 7Dii?


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## hendrik-sg (Apr 17, 2016)

if y think tis Problem is only on your camera, maybe try to find better one and sell your one

BUT:This camera has many different AF Settings, maybe y try other Settings wich are better suitable for tracking


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## sparkie (Apr 17, 2016)

Are you using identical AF settings to the camera bodies on which your lens focuses better? It could be that their AF is better optimised?
I've only had my 7D mkii for a couple of weeks (also purchased from Germany) but by using the settings suggested in the link below I found the AF to work well for BIF using a Sigma 150-600 Sport.
Do you have the same issues when using the 600mm without the converter?

http://johncrabbwildlifeimages.blogspot.nl/2015/05/birds-in-flight-with-canon-7d-mkii.html


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## Corydoras (Apr 17, 2016)

First take the extender out and try the bare lens for flying birds. The extender slows down the AF speed by 50% (this is a software based thing - it should help the camera to get the focus right with reduced light, contrast and details). 

This is the first birding season with the 7D MII for me, so I have just been able to try the tracking to some seagulls and the keeper rate was about 85% with bare lens. The AF speed / responsiveness can be the limiting factor wit tcs.


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## xps (Apr 17, 2016)

Yes, the problem exists with and without the extender. I have choosen all cases, and I tried to optimize the AF (Canon AF guide). But the problem is, 1. shot semi-sharp, 2.&3.(& sometimes 4. shot) unsharp, 5. shot sharp, 6. shot unsharp and so on.
Selling the cam with an AF problem is no option, as no one will buy such a cam or I get just a small amout of money for it.


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## RGF (Apr 17, 2016)

I had a similar problem with moving animals and finally brought it to Canon Service. They found a problem and fixed it - though I have not tested it extensively yet.


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## xps (Apr 17, 2016)

Attendum: Today it was very windy, so some gulls were flying around an near lake and I did test my combo extensively. Yes, without the extender the AF is visibly faster, but the AF focusses on the bird ans the 1. shot is always nearly sharp, as I wrote. But looking on the AF behavior, I recogniced that the cam moves the AF to something far away, even if the AF point still fixes the gull. So in a rapid sequence shot, it takes 2-3 shots that the AF switches to the real distance. I do not know why the AF system switches to a farer point, as I really tried to keep the gull in the choosen AF point or area. iTr makes it a little bit better, but not always.


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## quod (Apr 17, 2016)

I have this problem with both my 7D2 and 5D3 regardless of conditions or lens. On my 5D3, the first shot is very sharp and the second shot is soft, and this sequence occurs every time I shoot BIF. I have no clue why.


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## geonix (Apr 17, 2016)

If your AF is working that way despite Micro AF adjustment of the lens I would send the camera in. My 7D II has no such issues. But it took me some time to find the right AF settings fitting my style. Since I found them 90% (or more) of my BIF shots (medium to large birds flying more or less straight) are pin sharp. Haven't really tried song-birds or any other smaller more eratically flying subjects yet.


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## rfdesigner (Apr 17, 2016)

xps said:


> Yes, the problem exists with and without the extender. I have choosen all cases, and I tried to optimize the AF (Canon AF guide). But the problem is, 1. shot semi-sharp, 2.&3.(& sometimes 4. shot) unsharp, 5. shot sharp, 6. shot unsharp and so on.
> Selling the cam with an AF problem is no option, as no one will buy such a cam or I get just a small amout of money for it.



It sounds like the AF is unstable.. for which I would turn DOWN the gain & speed, slow it right down, make sure it's ok then slowly wind up the speed until I start to see things dropping off from best position.


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## Luckshot (Apr 17, 2016)

Have you tried adjusting the AF servo 1st/2nd shot focus/release priority?

It’s AF submenu 2.


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## Deleted member 91053 (Apr 17, 2016)

xps said:


> Yes, the problem exists with and without the extender. I have choosen all cases, and I tried to optimize the AF (Canon AF guide). But the problem is, 1. shot semi-sharp, 2.&3.(& sometimes 4. shot) unsharp, 5. shot sharp, 6. shot unsharp and so on.
> Selling the cam with an AF problem is no option, as no one will buy such a cam or I get just a small amout of money for it.



I am not too surprised that you have some issues with your 600 and an extender - though you should be getting a higher proportion in focus. With the bare 600 Mk2 I would expect much better results than you seem to be getting.

If it's any help I have set my 7D2 to focus priority for both first and second image. AF menu page 2. Also which focus points are you using? For distant subjects I use single point or spot AF and if they get closer then I use the 4 point Expand AF area. If you use higher numbers of AF points then there is a high/very high chance that the AF will lock on to another part of the bird such as a wingtip. I have had little success using more AF points with either my 7D2 or 1DX.

Photographing BIF is mainly about technique but the performance of the camera and lens is also important. Your 600 Mk2 certainly out performs my Canon 800 F5.6 L IS in the AF department so (all things being equal) I would expect your setup to give a higher "Hit Rate" than mine. If I do my part (that's the hard bit!) then on slow to medium speed birds I expect about 90% to be in focus with a fairly high proportion having that extra sharpness that makes a "Keeper". The "Keeper" rate with my 1DX is higher, as you would expect, but the 7D2 is no slouch by any standards. These two bodies have the best AF of any cameras that I have tried (regardless of brand) except for the 1DX2.
Please note that when I quote a hit rate this is only after I have done my part - I can't blame the camera for not focusing properly if I don't put the AF point on the the bird! For what it's worth I have been using AF case 1 and 5 and they seem roughly equal (so far) for BIF.

Just a final thought, have you turned your IS off? If it is on then you are unlikely to get worthwhile results with BIF. For example a while back I was photographing Red Kites with a 300 F4 L IS using IS, 300+ shots = not a single keeper! The following week I tried again with the IS off and had a hit rate of about 60/70% both times I was using a 5D Mk1 hardly the last word in AF performance! I haven't used IS on any of my lenses (except the 100-400 Mk2) for a long time for any type of photography and have been getting much better results. Turn IS off and save it for the odd occasion when there is no alternative.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2016)

xps said:


> Has someone an idea, how I can convince Canon to have an better look on my cam?



The only advice I have is to ask to speak to a Canon manager about the issue. Ask them to give you a loaner camera to try. If it works, then your camera has a issue. As far as being able to force Canon to do something, I'm not aware of the laws covering equipment that the manufacturer can't fix.


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## jmphoto (Apr 18, 2016)

*Re: AF problem at BIF 7DII *

Look at your photos in DDP (Canon Digital Photo Professional) and see where camera, at least theoretically, focused. Do the results make sense? Rent another body for a day. Set AF2:AI Servo both to Focus priority (as per Luckshot). Set the other mini-tweeks to their default setting unless you are sure exactly what they do. They won't correct a malfunctioning focus system. Easier to convince Canon you have problem if you could repeat it with shorter lens and easier subjects.


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## Mikehit (Apr 18, 2016)

This was a known behaviour with the original 7D so is not a surprise - I have found my 7DII to be better than the original but still not perfect. The problem may had was that the first one or two would be sharp, then one or two out of focus then the camera would hit again and so on. But yours is different in that it is the third or 4th images that are sharp which suggests the shutter is firing before focus is achieved. Have you tried the 'pumping' technique - follow the bird in flight and after 2 or 3 shots release the button, follow the OOF bird for a second or so then fire the button again. Some find this works better with back-button-focus. 

One quite sensible comment I have heard about this is not the camera itself but the battery - the 600mm lens is a lot of glass to move around and the battery cannot provide enough oomph to respond as quickly as it needs to. The batteries in the 1Dx models are much meatier and designed for the task. 
The fact that it focuses fine on stationary subjects suggest this may be the case.


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## Larsskv (Apr 18, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> This was a known behaviour with the original 7D so is not a surprise - I have found my 7DII to be better than the original but still not perfect. The problem may had was that the first one or two would be sharp, then one or two out of focus then the camera would hit again and so on. But yours is different in that it is the third or 4th images that are sharp which suggests the shutter is firing before focus is achieved. Have you tried the 'pumping' technique - follow the bird in flight and after 2 or 3 shots release the button, follow the OOF bird for a second or so then fire the button again. Some find this works better with back-button-focus.
> 
> One quite sensible comment I have heard about this is not the camera itself but the battery - the 600mm lens is a lot of glass to move around and the battery cannot provide enough oomph to respond as quickly as it needs to. The batteries in the 1Dx models are much meatier and designed for the task.
> The fact that it focuses fine on stationary subjects suggest this may be the case.



This battery theory could very well correspond with the tip of turning of IS, that Johnf3f gave earlier..


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## Pancho (Apr 18, 2016)

I had similar problem with my 7DII.
Only few images in a burst sequence of a moving subject were sharp in focus (using 70-200F4LIS).
I sent the body with a memory card showing photo samples. They kept it about 2 weeks and sent it back to me.
I don't know what they have done, no way to have the information even by phone...
But I have not seen this problem anymore...


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## Deleted member 91053 (Apr 18, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> One quite sensible comment I have heard about this is not the camera itself but the battery - the 600mm lens is a lot of glass to move around and the battery cannot provide enough oomph to respond as quickly as it needs to. The batteries in the 1Dx models are much meatier and designed for the task.
> The fact that it focuses fine on stationary subjects suggest this may be the case.



I hadn't heard that one, however the AF on my 1DX is certainly better than my 7D2 - not a lot but there is a difference.
I cannot comment on the 600 F4 as I no longer have one! I do have the Canon 800mm F5.6 and the 7D2 performs very well with it.


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## xps (Apr 18, 2016)

Thanks for your writings.
I use an battery grip with 2 batteries inside. I willtry on Wednesday, if there is a difference in using 3rd party batteries, or my original batteries. I will change all settings and try them out.
I phoned with Canon service today, but they just told me, that BIF are hard to be taken pictures of them and that this problem is typically for rookie knowledge....


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## NancyP (Apr 19, 2016)

The batteries in the pro cameras are ~11 v batteries, whereas the batteries in the prosumer cameras such as XXD, 7D, 6D, 5D are ~7.5 v.


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## pwp (Apr 19, 2016)

NancyP said:


> The batteries in the pro cameras are ~11 v batteries, whereas the batteries in the prosumer cameras such as XXD, 7D, 6D, 5D are ~7.5 v.


I got a pair of spare Wasabi LP-E6 batteries for my gripped 7DII. While I have not experienced AF difficulties shooting swimming, diving, track & field & football, I did have a negative experience with the Wasabi batteries. They are claimed to be chipped for the 7DII but did trigger a weird side effect. With the Wasabi's on board, the 7DII could take up to five seconds to "wake-up" instead of the customary instant response. At first I blamed the camera but there's a thread on CR somewhere where a few posters suggested to me that it might be the batteries. And they were right. No issues with Canon genuine batteries. So quite aside from voltage issues, steer clear of aftermarket LP-E6 batteries if you're after performance and quick response.

-pw


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## Sabaki (Apr 19, 2016)

I have this problem and in the first month Canon launched the 7Dii, I went through 3 different bodies, each posing their own problems.

As mentioned above, keeper rate isn't great, as it's normally only 1 or 2 shots of about 10 that are sharp. The problem to me was the pitch Canon used when promoting the camera, effectively calling it a 1DX mini. It is not

That dedicated processor that tracks colours and shapes in the 1DX is a large part of why one gets nearly 100% sharp images, neither the 5Diii nor 7Dii have it.


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