# How Soon We Forget!



## Steve Todd (Sep 30, 2014)

With all the chatter today about needing more MP or DR, let's not forget where we were just 10-years ago. For those of you under 30-years-old, 10-years ago seems like a lifetime. For those of us over 60-years-old, 10-years ago seems like yesterday!

Here's a look back to 2004:

Canon EOS-10D, 6.3 MP 1.6x crop sensor, 3 FPS, $1,499

Nikon D100, 6.1 MP 1.5x crop sensor, 3 FPS, $1,499

Canon EOS-1D II, 8.2 MP 1.3x crop sensor, 8.5 FPS, $4,495

Nikon D2H, 4.1 MP 1.5x crop sensor, 8 FPS, $3,199

Nikon D1X, 5.3 MP 1.5x crop sensor, 3 FPS, $3,899

Canon EOS-1DS, 11.1 MP full frame sensor, 3 FPS, $7,999

Kodak DCS-14N, 13.8 MP full frame sensor, 8 FPS, $9,000+

So, what's my point! Just this, what we thought was fantastic back then, is "not so much" today. However, there are millions of great images from back then! And in 10-years from now, we'll probably still be arguing about needing more MP and DR, yet we'll still have tons of great images from right now! Life is short my friends, get out and enjoy what you have right now! The future will be here starting tomorrow, and with it, undoubtably more of everything you could ever wish for or imagine!


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## Sabaki (Sep 30, 2014)

I think there's photographers and there's people who talk photography.

For photographers, it's important to take pictures, for the others, it's all about chat-chat-chat!


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## sanj (Sep 30, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> I think there's photographers and there's people who talk photography.
> 
> For photographers, it's important to take pictures, for the others, it's all about chat-chat-chat!



Like you? Come on! I visit this forum and take pictures. It is possible to be a photographer and also read up on technology/techniques.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 30, 2014)

Steve Todd said:


> With all the chatter today about needing more MP or DR, let's not forget where we were just 10-years ago. For those of you under 30-years-old, 10-years ago seems like a lifetime. For those of us over 60-years-old, 10-years ago seems like yesterday!



I'm in between, but I skipped the first generations of dslr cameras because the evolution was so fast and the (precious) money seemed wasted to me. I only re-entered with the "good enough" 60d and 18mp sensor, so my memories only include the film area:

* EOS 620 (1/4000s shutter, 1/250 x-sync) and Canon technical date back ... great camera. You could simply exchange the grip for a bigger one for bigger hands, nowadays you have to buy a semi-pro camera for that  ... http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/eoscamera/620/

* EOS RT: _nearly zero shutter lag_ and *you can see the moment the picture is taken* which all other dslrs don't manage because of the mirror blackout. Loved it ... http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/eoscamera/EOS-RT/



Sabaki said:


> I think there's photographers and there's people who talk photography. For photographers, it's important to take pictures, for the others, it's all about chat-chat-chat!



I don't see this distinction at all, you can very well like chatting about THE next great lens or body that will rule them all, and still be able to have a serious, quality and matter-of-fact photog side. But for me, the strangest user category bordering on schizophrenic are those _posting in an internet forum that people should get a life and participating is a waste of time_ :->


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Sep 30, 2014)

Add one thing to what you say and I'd agree completely: Camera equipment can be used as status symbols to impress strangers.

So there's this "swagger factor" that can be applied, too. But only if you own the "right" stuff.   




Sabaki said:


> I think there's photographers and there's people who talk photography.
> 
> For photographers, it's important to take pictures, for the others, it's all about chat-chat-chat!


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## Marsu42 (Sep 30, 2014)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> So there's this "swagger factor" that can be applied, too. But only if you own the "right" stuff.



Having a big white lens really helps. I vividly imagine the crowd in the local zoo parting in recognition of "here come's the pro" even with my mediocre 60d . So my ego has to thank Canon for painting the 70-300L white, as there's absolutely no technical reason to do so - there are no fluorite elements, and the lens isn't really large.


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## Hillsilly (Sep 30, 2014)

I appreciate the premise of this topic. For what its worth, my 1Ds Mkii is ten years old and I'm yet to be convinced that newer cameras have noticeably better image quality. So the good news is I don't need to worry about gear - I can just get out there and shoot. So why do I feel the urge to buy a new camera or lens every few months?


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## ecka (Sep 30, 2014)

Well, after playing with some A7S 12mp RAW files, I've concluded that it's lacking resolution, just a bit. For today's highres displays (like 4K) 16mp would have been much better .


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## Bennymiata (Sep 30, 2014)

Not only did I get my first Canon SLR ( an FT- QL) in 1968, but I remember my first digital camera, around the early 90s, that cost over $3500 and didn't even have ONE megapixel resolution, and the noise was more prominent than the picture!


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## Aichbus (Sep 30, 2014)

Bennymiata said:


> ... I remember my first digital camera, around the early 90s, that cost over $3500 and didn't even have ONE megapixel resolution, and the noise was more prominent than the picture!


Could you post a sample image from this camera to complement this thread's history lesson?


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## dash2k8 (Sep 30, 2014)

I crossed over from film to digital fairly early, going from the 1V to the (yikes) 10D. It was quite a change of era. The original post brought back lots of memories, both good and bad and hilarious. ;D


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## Besisika (Sep 30, 2014)

sanj said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > I think there's photographers and there's people who talk photography.
> ...


I think both of you are right. For me, it is about getting a balance between the two.
Let me explain;
The student asked the master: "Master, I have been practicing for years, and yet I haven't achieved anything much". And the master replied: "The idiots learn from their mistakes, the wisemen learn from someone else's".

Some people believe too much in what they have experienced and take that as the sole proof of truth. 
It is crucial for me to take pictures. It helps me learning from my own mistakes, it keeps me enthusiastic about it, it helps keeping my self estime up. Practices make masters, right?
On the other hand, It is nice sometimes to listen to others; their experience, their theory and even their "idiotism" for lack of a better word. It, not only, helps in getting new techniques but some inspiration as well, it helps in understanding the need of others, it helps explaining some of my failures, but most of all, it helps in understanding the trend.
I agree, that we can take already great pictures with what we have and it would be wastefull not to take advantage of it, however haven't you ever wonder what if ..
What if we have the technology of after year today? 

Today only 5-10% of panning are keepers, still too less hit punches are printed, too many endangered species are not archived. Just to name a few.

Yes, we need the technology to advance and I am keen to know about the trend. I don't consider chating about that as a waste of time at all. Just don't do it too much. 
Yes, I am proud when I capture one of those rare moments, and yet I cannot remain in the technology of yester year and just close my eyes in front of lost opportunities. 
Simply, I cannot live only with today and not to care about what to come next. It just feels nice when you see the light at the end of the tunnel.


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## Eldar (Sep 30, 2014)

I think the OP has an interesting point. I remember Kodak released their 14MP monster and most of us said that resolution no longer is an issue. Now, for some, the world will come to an end if we don´t get +40MP.

CR is my first online forum and I really enjoy reading many of the threads. There are two things I have learned. First is that I have become a Lot more critical to my own equipment. Second is that I have become a Lot more critical to my images.

I don´t believe I would have bought the Zeiss lenses if I had not been on this forum and I probably would not have bought the 200-400 f4L IS 1.4x. I think I have to blame eml58 for that one.

But I also believe I have become a better photographer (note! I have been an enthusiast for +40 yrs.). Some of my images have been constructively criticized and I have seen and learned from some spectacular images from some of the others who post here. 

I have no problem with any post, where the ambition is to pinpoint something we currently can´t get with Canon. After all, this is a technology forum and we should all be interested in anything that would push the envelope. But I do have a problem with those who jump in, with a rather patronizing language, to defend the status quo (and justify their procurement decisions??). I just don´t understand their motivation. These must not be mixed with those who, in a constructive and educational manner, explain how we can overcome a shortcoming by being smart in how we use what we have. I have learned a lot from some of you.

To me this is easy. If a new Canon camera with more pixels, improved DR and better high/low ISO performance came along tomorrow, I´d go after it. On the other hand, if all DSLR produces stopped developing new products today, I would continue to shoot with what I have until they carry me out, feet first.


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## Sabaki (Sep 30, 2014)

sanj said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > I think there's photographers and there's people who talk photography.
> ...



Slow down and read what I said. For photographers it's important to take pics. We all read up on technique and so on and that's definitely not what I said.

I was relating to the OPs opening statement of "With all the chatter today about needing more MP or DR..." I do make the assumption that some are way more interested in chatting than shooting.


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## sanj (Sep 30, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Sabaki said:
> ...



Understood.  Peace!


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## chauncey (Sep 30, 2014)

I haven't forgotten...the Rebel, the 5D, the series of 1Ds's (including the obscene 8 grand for the last one).
I would do it all over again and, being a gear junkie, I still pine for the one just around the corner...
Because, with each one, I get all little better with this stupid hobby. :


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## Besisika (Sep 30, 2014)

Eldar said:


> I have no problem with any post, where the ambition is to pinpoint something we currently can´t get with Canon. After all, this is a technology forum and we should all be interested in anything that would push the envelope. But I do have a problem with those who jump in, with a rather patronizing language, to defend the status quo (and justify their procurement decisions??). I just don´t understand their motivation. These must not be mixed with those who, in a constructive and educational manner, explain how we can overcome a shortcoming by being smart in how we use what we have. I have learned a lot from some of you.


+1
Well said!


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## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 30, 2014)

I know when we finally have something better in our hands, we want something else up. Today I hear people saying that ISO1600 clean is just insufficient. How these people were photographing at the time of film? : 

Some people want to photograph a black cat inside the cave without using flash, then lift the shadows in PP... ??? Have we forgotten that photographing means "writing with light"? :-\ But they want to shoot with no light, and create a lighting using the computer. :-[

I could do any photography using film, since there was enough light. Today we can use several TTL wireless flash, enjoying the wonder of ISO1600 and keep complaining that you can not achieve a good result.  :-X


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## Sabaki (Sep 30, 2014)

sanj said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > sanj said:
> ...



Thanks sanj, very much appreciated  Peace ;D


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## Old Sarge (Sep 30, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I know when we finally have something better in our hands, we want something else up. Today I hear people saying that ISO1600 clean is just insufficient. How these people were photographing at the time of film? :


I have always like available light photography. I remember the first time I used Agfa Isopan Record. If I remember correctly is was about ISO 1000 or 1200 (B&W of course). It was originally designed for a microfilm application I believe. And you could push it in the darkroom to about ISO 2000. And you could measure the grain with a ruler.  But is was the fastest thing around so we used it.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 30, 2014)

ecka said:


> Well, after playing with some A7S 12mp RAW files, I've concluded that it's lacking resolution, just a bit. For today's highres displays (like 4K) 16mp would have been much better .



I'm about to jump on a7s wagon because of low, 12MP


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## madmailman (Sep 30, 2014)

I'm pretty sure I paid about $1000 for my first digital camera. A whopping 2mp (CCD) Kodac DC280. Took some pretty good pictures with it too, as long as my subject was no faster than a limping snail.


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## nc0b (Sep 30, 2014)

My first digital was a Kodak 0.8 MP point and shoot that ran on AA cells. 25 shots and the batteries were pretty well dead. The image wasn't even good enough to use in an annual radio review book I wrote for. Later the origin DSLR Rebel came along at $900 for the body only. At that point digital images were good enough for publication, and the Nikon F2 went back on the shelf.


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## AcutancePhotography (Sep 30, 2014)

I was a late comer. I stuck with film (Canon A2E) up until I got seduced by the dark side (Digital) when I got my 30D. 8 massive megapickles!!!


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Sep 30, 2014)

I recently read a letter to the editor of a Paris-published photo-magazine. The writer related that his Canon 20D had recently died and that he missed it terribly. It made great images for him for all those years.

Then there's the story about a motorcycle race photographer who used an old 1Ds 4mpixel and could print _incredible_ B+ size images. Here's a link to his story - 
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2008/12/i-think-its-imp.html
_[Scroll down to the image of the racer]_

Both these stories reminded me it's not about how much DR or how many pixels something might have. It's how you use whatever you have that counts... and to think that Canon has for many years enabled this kind of creativity... it's amazing...


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## the blackfox (Sep 30, 2014)

yo ,i progressed from a 0.8mp digicam think it might have been a fuji? but lost to memory now ,processed using a windows freebie p/p program from a magazine .if my memory is correct it didn't even have a review screen,soon replaced with a 2-0mp ricoh i think with built in memory ,then a ricoh i500 that was long and thin and 3.0mp but took c/f cards with an incredible 1 cm close focus lens ..
next came a mega leap with a sony can't remember the model number but it was dslr size ,non detachable zoom lens and at 8mp had the printing shop asking what the hell it was .it had a body that was multi angle to .super camera that put me on track for a legion of both nikon and canon DSLR bodies and lenses in the following years .

during the intervening years as i progressed i went from problem laden windows computers and j-pegs to my first i-mac and then through various p/p programs till now shooting entirely in RAW and processing on CS6 on a huge desktop i-mac with more power than the ones used for the moon landings ,wonder what the next 20 years will bring


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## ecka (Sep 30, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > Well, after playing with some A7S 12mp RAW files, I've concluded that it's lacking resolution, just a bit. For today's highres displays (like 4K) 16mp would have been much better .
> ...



Good for you


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## Valvebounce (Oct 1, 2014)

Hi blackfox. 
I really hope you have more computing power than than used for the moon landings, all you need for that is a toaster with computer controlled timer if you mean the computer that landed on the moon! 
I remember my uncle arriving in England from the USA with the first model of Texas Instruments calculator and proudly proclaiming it was more powerful than the computer that took man to the moon! ;D

Quote from Computer Weekly. 
http://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Apollo-11-The-computers-that-put-man-on-the-moon
Quote
The so-called Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC) used a real time operating system, which enabled astronauts to enter simple commands by typing in pairs of nouns and verbs, to control the spacecraft. It was more basic than the electronics in modern toasters that have computer controlled stop/start/defrost buttons. It had approximately 64Kbyte of memory and operated at 0.043MHz.
End quote. 

To clarify, it had 2kbytes ram 64kbytes rom
As for the ground based main frames used I lost interest in working out how many of those would equal your Mac! ;D

Cheers, Graham. 



the blackfox said:


> and processing on CS6 on a huge desktop i-mac with more power than the ones used for the moon landings ,wonder what the next 20 years will bring


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## dash2k8 (Oct 10, 2014)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> I recently read a letter to the editor of a Paris-published photo-magazine. The writer related that his Canon 20D had recently died and that he missed it terribly. It made great images for him for all those years.
> 
> Then there's the story about a motorcycle race photographer who used an old 1Ds 4mpixel and could print _incredible_ B+ size images. Here's a link to his story -
> http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2008/12/i-think-its-imp.html
> ...



I totally approve your point, but at the same time we have to be realistic. Most people couldn't make a living with 2MP-cameras. The wonderful stories are the exception, as it were. I do believe, though, that these things help put things in perspective: it's not about the gear, it's about what goes on between the ears. The gear just helps us bridge that creative gap more easily.

I like to remind myself that Ansel Adams didn't have a single megapixel and didn't do too poorly.


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## Joe M (Oct 10, 2014)

I haven't forgotten. The cameras are simply tools and the better the tool, the easier it is for me to get my job done. For those who think it's all about the person behind the camera, well, that's partly true. The thing is, you'd likely rather use a 5D3 to do the job as opposed to a 10D (or at least I sure do for what I shoot). Yes, you can get the shot but it will likely look nicer and will be immensely easier to get it with some tools rather than others. So no, when I'm in places and circumstances wherein it is now easier for me to get my shot (and it looks better too), I don't at the time think "wow, this is much less work and a little more fun" but there have been times afterwards that I have.


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## benperrin (Oct 10, 2014)

Joe M said:


> I haven't forgotten. The cameras are simply tools and the better the tool, the easier it is for me to get my job done. For those who think it's all about the person behind the camera, well, that's partly true. The thing is, you'd likely rather use a 5D3 to do the job as opposed to a 10D (or at least I sure do for what I shoot). Yes, you can get the shot but it will likely look nicer and will be immensely easier to get it with some tools rather than others. So no, when I'm in places and circumstances wherein it is now easier for me to get my shot (and it looks better too), I don't at the time think "wow, this is much less work and a little more fun" but there have been times afterwards that I have.


+1

Great response!


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## FTb-n (Oct 10, 2014)

Photography is a great hobby (or profession) for those of us who not only enjoy the art of capturing that moment in time, but also marvel at the technological advances and fine craftsmanship that went into the development of our tools.

For decades, the film-based Leica M-series was a marvel in design and craftsmanship. So was the Hasselblad. I still appreciate the craftsmanship that went into the Canon F1, FTb-n, and the Canonet GIII's -- and the little Rollie 35's with the collapsible lens. I still think that old Argus C3 is unique marvel in its simplicity and tank-meets-Brownie design. The big thing in my early career was to push-process ASA 400 Tri-X film to ASA 1,200. Shooting at 1,200 was FAST and way cool.

But, now, with a 7D or a 5D3, I routinely shoot up to ISO 64,000. Last week, I played with 12,800 at a high-school football game. The results at these speeds still amaze me. I remember when Ektachrome ASA 160 was "high speed film." It is incredible that one can get a recognizable image at ISO 12,800, let alone a clean one. Looking back a few decades, it is fascinating to review the evolution of the camera. The progress in the past ten years absolutely amazes me.

Photography is the art of capturing a moment that can be studied, discussed, and enjoyed for a lifetime. The photograph lives to reveal the details of an instant in time. For the photographer, it's not only the image and the story within that sparks great interest, but also the tale of getting the shot -- the hunt itself. 

It is fascinating to discuss the techniques we use to get that shot. I find it equally fascinating to discuss the tools that we use. We are witnessing an incredible evolution of the camera, there is much to share as we watch it evolve. It is this variety that fascinates me about photography for it offers so many different fields of study that can shared in spirited discussion -- from the image, to the hunt, to the technology that drives the evolution of our tools -- it offers the spice that keeps the pages of this forum alive and kicking.


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## tron (Oct 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> [* EOS 620 (1/4000s shutter, 1/250 x-sync) and Canon technical date back ... great camera. You could simply exchange the grip for a bigger one for bigger hands, nowadays you have to buy a semi-pro camera for that  ... http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/eoscamera/620/
> 
> * EOS RT: _nearly zero shutter lag_ and *you can see the moment the picture is taken* which all other dslrs don't manage because of the mirror blackout. Loved it ... http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/eoscamera/EOS-RT/
> 
> [


WOW! EOS 620 was my first Canon camera and RT my second one (without selling the first one)


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