# A couple of EOS R cameras that can be considered “pro” are in the pipeline [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 7, 2019)

> Since the announcement of the Canon EOS R last year, there have been unrelenting questions about what a true next-generation professional mirrorless camera from Canon was coming.
> We’re told that there are two bodies planned that will be marketed as “professional” bodies when they hit the market in 2020. However, neither one of them will be considered equals or a replacement for the EOS-1D series of DSLRs. We’re going to see an EOS-1D X Mark III next year and that will be the flagship camera from Canon through 2020.
> The obvious first EOS R series camera will be the high-resolution body we’ve been talking about for months.
> The other will be a “sports” oriented camera, with higher frame rates, lower resolution and some advancements in sensor performance. This camera will be designed for prosumer shooters as well as an ideal 2nd body to “professional” photographers that may be using the EOS-1D series of DSLRs. So it almost sounds like a mirrorless full-frame EOS 7D body.
> We’re told...



Continue reading...


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## ethanz (May 7, 2019)

Sounds like a good strategy.


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## -pekr- (May 7, 2019)

Interested in a prosumer body. If it would happen to be the 7DII replacement, is it going to be full frame? Or APS-C in a R body? What I am looking forward in a 2 years period is a 5DIV replacement, not a companion camera the R itself is.


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## Del Paso (May 7, 2019)

Who will be the first to whine about I don't know what?


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## Jester74 (May 7, 2019)

No 4K. Canon is *******



Del Paso said:


> Who will be the first to whine about I don't know what?


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## Adelino (May 7, 2019)

FF 7D sounds AWESOME!


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## Marius Schamschula (May 7, 2019)

A 7D frame rate capable R Pro body. That's what I'm waiting for!


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## Tom W (May 7, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Interested in a prosumer body. If it would happen to be the 7DII replacement, is it going to be full frame? Or APS-C in a R body? What I am looking forward in a 2 years period is a 5DIV replacement, not a companion camera the R itself is.



I would suspect that it will be full frame, though I could be wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 5D4 will be replaced with another DSLR and that the mirrorless "sports" version will share the sensor. It will be a hit. Canon is learning quickly from its first couple of generations of mirrorless (M and RF series) as well as the successes and failures of its competitors.


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## Kit. (May 7, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Who will be the first to whine about I don't know what?


G7X III, obviously.

Will we see it in 2020?


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## YuengLinger (May 7, 2019)

Tom W said:


> I would suspect that it will be full frame, though I could be wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 5D4 will be replaced with another DSLR and that the mirrorless "sports" version will share the sensor. It will be a hit. Canon is learning quickly from its first couple of generations of mirrorless (M and RF series) as well as the successes and failures of its competitors.


I'm a 5D IV shooter who wants a FF mirrorless with the same or better capabilities. I'd love to start using Rf glass, but I don't want to step down or buy a high-MP count sensor. Doubt I'm the only such customer. In the meantime, I can take great pics with the dSLR and legacy Ef lenses.


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## deleteme (May 7, 2019)

"We’re told that there is a general feeling professional sports shooters (and other professional EOS-1D shooters) will be the last to embrace mirrorless cameras across the board"
Pro sports shooters? Both of them switched to the Sony A9 last I heard.

Seriously, an R with a joystick, two cards and an ISO button would be all I need.


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## unfocused (May 7, 2019)

First, let's keep in mind that this is a CR1.

That said, it sounds reasonable.

A high resolution R "replacement" for the 5Ds has always made sense. The use case of the 5Ds series is well-suited to the advantages of mirrorless.

Having a "pro" level R that is sports oriented, but not a replacement for the 1Dx will allow Canon to test the waters and get a sense as to whether or not sports shooters want to try mirrorless. Low risk and cautious move for Canon with a base that doesn't react kindly to having its cheese moved.

_Modifying this portion of my comments, because I re-read CR Guy's post. He's not saying it's a *replacement* for the 7D, but rather a *companion* body to the 1Dx III, just as the 7DII has served some as a companion or second body to the 1Dx II.

Laying out my reasoning below as to why I don't see this as a substitute for the 7DIII. _

(However, it's not logical to term this a replacement for the 7D. The appeal of the 7D is the crop sensor and additional perceived reach it offers in situations where the user is distance limited. A full frame mirrorless with *less* resolution than the EOS R loses that advantage. It's bound to disappoint the 7D base.

Plus, the price point of a full frame EOS R with *more* features than the current R will be higher than the 7D. A camera that's likely to come it at $1,000 more than the 7D can't be targeted to 7D buyers.

So, I consider that conjecture dead wrong.

Canon has a real dilemma with the 7D series. They've spoiled us. We won't be satisfied with a downgrade to an upgraded 90D. An APS-C sensor R mount camera seems unlikely, but the M mount is ill-suited to the 7D user base. Best choice is to simply release a 7DIII with a few slight improvements (latest sensor technology, touch screen, wifi, etc.) and call it good for another 5 years or so until the market shakes out.


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## Maximilian (May 7, 2019)

Sounds like a reasonable strategy, but noting really surprising.

Gimme some rumored specs and new gimmicks, so we have something more to talk about.


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## Camerajah (May 7, 2019)

I have a feeling we will get one late this year


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## AlanWill (May 7, 2019)

Jester74 said:


> No 4K. Canon is *******


If I were so anxious to have 4k I'd buy a dedicated 4k video camera.


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## Adelino (May 7, 2019)

Kit. said:


> G7X III, obviously.
> 
> Will we see it in 2020?


Yeah didn't we already see images? Or certification notices or some such?


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## mpb001 (May 7, 2019)

I hope that these anticipated mirrorless bodies have IBIS. I use a 5DIV and it is a great DSLR. That said, I really have no interest in a Canon FF mirrorless body without an upgraded sensor and IBIS. 

If I decide to go mirrorless and theses two criteria are not available from Canon in a couple of years, sadly, I would probably look at switching to another mirrorless brand.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 7, 2019)

I see this as a progression, moving from lower end bodies to higher end ones as technology allows. New sensors, new processors that are incrementally better and work better with mirrorless bodies.


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## jeffa4444 (May 7, 2019)

I would imagine an obvious target is the 5DS/r replacement not the 5D MKIV for the high resolution camera. I use my 5DS almost exclusively for portraiture, Ive not found it easy using the EOS R as a portrait camera with the lag in the viewfinder being an annoyance when taking a sequence of shots so they will need to overcome this. 
The layout of controls needs to mimic the 5D line as well not the present EOS R layout or lack of toggle switch. 
The EOS R has its merits, its certainly a good landscape camera, its certainly lighter yet feels good in larger hands. The pictures are perfectly fine (identical to the 5D MKIV) but the Touch Bar is tech for tech sake (a bit like Apple Touch Bar). 

Im sure it will have 4K at least as good as if not better than the 5D MKIV (lost on me I dont shoot video). Time will tell!


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## Treyarnon (May 7, 2019)

How does a 'Full frame 7D' differ from a 5D series camera??

If Canon are taking the EOS R, and 'pro-ing it up a bit' - then putting it to market with a 'high resolution' sensor and a 'low/medium resolution' sensor - that is your 5Ds and 5D equilivent cameras right there.


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## jeanluc (May 7, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> I'm a 5D IV shooter who wants a FF mirrorless with the same or better capabilities. I'd love to start using Rf glass, but I don't want to step down or buy a high-MP count sensor. Doubt I'm the only such customer. In the meantime, I can take great pics with the dSLR and legacy Ef lenses.


I have both. The current EOS R does exactly that. In fact, it's better than the 5D4 in lots of ways for landscape shooting, which is what I do. Only potential concerns I have/had are:


weather sealing is good, but not as good as the 5D4
second card slot for some users

So if it's really wet I use the 5D4, otherwise I'll take the R anytime. The files are no different than the 5D4 in terms of post processing latitude. The latest firmware solved the banding I read about but never noticed.

Despite what you read, I would have NO hesitation to getting an R, especially now that's it under 2K. (This is as a stills shooter; I shoot video on my phone so I cannot comment there)

The R/5D4 makes a great body combo right now, and I plan to slowly get a few RF lenses as they come out. No rush, as all EF glass works great with adapter. When the hi-res R is released, I'll switch over to RF totally and my R becomes second body.


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## RayValdez360 (May 7, 2019)

jeffa4444 said:


> I would imagine an obvious target is the 5DS/r replacement not the 5D MKIV for the high resolution camera. I use my 5DS almost exclusively for portraiture, Ive not found it easy using the EOS R as a portrait camera with the lag in the viewfinder being an annoyance when taking a sequence of shots so they will need to overcome this.
> The layout of controls needs to mimic the 5D line as well not the present EOS R layout or lack of toggle switch.
> The EOS R has its merits, its certainly a good landscape camera, its certainly lighter yet feels good in larger hands. The pictures are perfectly fine (identical to the 5D MKIV) but the Touch Bar is tech for tech sake (a bit like Apple Touch Bar).
> 
> Im sure it will have 4K at least as good as if not better than the 5D MKIV (lost on me I dont shoot video). Time will tell!


they say the evf works better with native rf lenses.


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## masterpix (May 7, 2019)

I still would like to see a 7D-mark3.


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## allanP (May 7, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Sounds like a good strategy.


Good strategy?
Too late Canon. The train left


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## allanP (May 7, 2019)

masterpix said:


> I still would like to see a 7D-mark3.


This would be nice, but I do not believe it anymore


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## unfocused (May 7, 2019)

Treyarnon said:


> How does a 'Full frame 7D' differ from a 5D series camera??



Traditionally, the 7D has had faster frame rate, better weathersealing and improved autofocus over whatever the current generation of 5D happens to have. However, with the current generation of 5D, there isn't a lot of room for improvement, other than the frame rate, so your point is valid.



> If Canon are taking the EOS R, and 'pro-ing it up a bit' - then putting it to market with a 'high resolution' sensor and a 'low/medium resolution' sensor - that is your 5Ds and 5D equilivent cameras right there.



Yes.


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## GMCPhotographics (May 7, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Interested in a prosumer body. If it would happen to be the 7DII replacement, is it going to be full frame? Or APS-C in a R body? What I am looking forward in a 2 years period is a 5DIV replacement, not a companion camera the R itself is.



I'm guessing a full frame 28mp sensor with around 10 fps mirror lenss camera. It would occupy the same retail space / price point that a DSLR 7DIII would have but effectively be a new line of camera. It's a cheaper camera for Canon to make due to the lack of prism manufacturing / engineering so Canon could easily pocket the money or pass the reduce pricing on to the customer very easily too. A camera like that with 5Dmk4 quality sensor might well cause me to pull the trigger on one my self! In fact having a high resolution model (aka 5Dsr) and a sports model (aka 1Dx lite) then it negates the need for a 5D series camera on the RF mount at all.


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## unfocused (May 7, 2019)

masterpix said:


> I still would like to see a 7D-mark3.





allkar said:


> This would be nice, but I do not believe it anymore



I'm still hoping. Until a full frame (either DSLR or Mirrorless) hits about 40-45 mp with 10-12 fps, there will be a need for the 7D series. I think we are still a generation or two away from that.


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## GMCPhotographics (May 7, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Traditionally, the 7D has had faster frame rate, better weathersealing and improved autofocus over whatever the current generation of 5D happens to have. However, with the current generation of 5D, there isn't a lot of room for improvement, other than the frame rate, so your point is valid.
> Yes.


The 7D brought the newer User Interface and Ergonomics that the 5DIII had. Although it only had 19 AF points...It paved the way for the later 61 point AF system. It's only weakness was the very poor sensor. Other than that the 7D was truly a revolution for Canon. It allowed the 5DIII and 1Dx (which were developed in tandem) to trail blaze the mk4, 7DII and 1DxII. 
I'm guessing flipping the 7Dx' line over to the RF system, Canon will use (what every they decided to call it) it to add development $$$ to the RF range. A continuous AF system that actually works and can cope with a high frame rate...and improved ergos....we all know the RF line REALLY needs some decent ergonomics!


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## Gillettecavalcad3 (May 7, 2019)

AlanWill said:


> If I were so anxious to have 4k I'd buy a dedicated 4k video camera.



I used to say things like this before I switched over to Sony. It is pure denial. 

Canon's strategy is mind boggling as lots of sports shooters have moved to Sony Mirrorless.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 7, 2019)

Treyarnon said:


> How does a 'Full frame 7D' differ from a 5D series camera??
> 
> If Canon are taking the EOS R, and 'pro-ing it up a bit' - then putting it to market with a 'high resolution' sensor and a 'low/medium resolution' sensor - that is your 5Ds and 5D equilivent cameras right there.


The 7D is a sports camera who 's main feature is high FPS. To achieve high fps with dual pixel sensors is apparently a difficult issue, that needs lots of processing horsepower along with a fast readout sensor. That usually means lower resolution, the same reasons a 1DX camera has lower resolution. 

The 5D series was originally evolved as a "Wedding" camera but has come to be accepted as a all around tool for high end photographers. It does not have fast FPS, but is setup to work for many situations and has higher resolution.

I expect one new version to be a 60-100mp version of the R perhaps with a larger body and more features as well as a big price. A replacement for the 5DS R?

Those are cameras aimed at entirely different purposes.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 7, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I used to say things like this before I switched over to Sony. It is pure denial.
> 
> Canon's strategy is mind boggling as lots of sports shooters have moved to Sony Mirrorless.


I suppose they use Sony's 600mm and 800mm lenses too?


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## sdz (May 7, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I used to say things like this before I switched over to Sony. It is pure denial.
> 
> Canon's _strategy_ is mind boggling as lots of sports shooters have moved to Sony Mirrorless. [emphasis added]



Canon's 'strategy' issued from the technology it had at hand. That technology was a constraint it had to face in order to develop the sensor and processing technology able to compete with Sony. It's 'strategy,' therefore, was to develop the sensors needed to compete. When they are ready, Canon can be expected to put them in their cameras.


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## djack41 (May 7, 2019)

Darn. Canon moves so slow. Forever playing catchup.


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## gmon750 (May 7, 2019)

I'm patiently waiting for a 5D-equivalent R-body. I absolutely love my 5DM3 and while I am quite excited with what Canon is doing (particularly with the R-lenses) I want a 5D-equivalent R-body that doesn't sacrifice what my 5D dSLR is so good at. Battery life, joystick, dials, and instant-on/click performance.

I'm happy with the current resolution of the 5DM4. I'm not interested in massive pixels.


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## Rixy (May 7, 2019)

2020


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## Del Paso (May 7, 2019)

allkar said:


> Good strategy?
> Too late Canon. The train left


The train is *******.


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## The Fat Fish (May 7, 2019)

"Pro" for Canon is an excuse to put the price even higher. The EOS R is grossly overpriced for what it is and these cameras will no doubt continue the trend. For 2 or 3 other manufacturers you can get great dynamic range, IBIS, excellent video features, dual card slots (in 2), fast FPS and more for £1600-£2000. The EOS R gives you none of that for £2350. It's not a bad camera but it's a very overpriced camera. If they reduced it to around £1400-£1500 it would make way for a £2000ish camera that can actually compete in specs vs price.


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## HarryFilm (May 7, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Who will be the first to whine about I don't know what?



===

If it ain't a 50 megapixel medium format sensor combined stills and video camera with at least 60 fps DCI 8K and 120 fps DCI 4K video at 16 bits per colour channel THEN it is TRULY DEAD in the water and YES --- CANON is DOOOOOOOOOOOMED !!!!!!!

--

I should note however that a sub-$100 smartphone took THESE PHOTOS BELOW which means you really DO NOT have to spend $6000+ on a pro-level stills/video camera at all !!!

AND YES that was SNOW on May 5 and May 6, 2019 just a few days ago in and near Calgary, Alberta, Canada where 2019 will be remembered as the year where Winter Never Went Away!
.


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## mk0x55 (May 7, 2019)

Jester74 said:


> No 4K. Canon is *******


No. 4K is *******.


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## scyrene (May 7, 2019)

The Fat Fish said:


> "Pro" for Canon is an excuse to put the price even higher. The EOS R is grossly overpriced for what it is and these cameras will no doubt continue the trend. For 2 or 3 other manufacturers you can get great dynamic range, IBIS, excellent video features, dual card slots (in 2), fast FPS and more for £1600-£2000. The EOS R gives you none of that for £2350. It's not a bad camera but it's a very overpriced camera. If they reduced it to around £1400-£1500 it would make way for a £2000ish camera that can actually compete in specs vs price.



If they're able to sell enough (by their standards, presumably to make a healthy profit), why would they charge less? If competitors offer "better value" yet customers don't select those products, then they are de facto competing. They're a business, not a charity.


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## flip314 (May 7, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> Calgary, Alberta, Canada



Are you from Calgary? That actually explains a lot.


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## scyrene (May 7, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> I should note however that a sub-$100 smartphone took THESE PHOTOS BELOW which means you really DO NOT have to spend $6000+ on a pro-level stills/video camera at all !!!



If these shots satisfy you, then that's great. Smartphones can take great photos, and are more capable with every passing year. That being said, to my eye it's clear these were taken with a tiny sensor (whether phone or compact camera), and they don't in my opinion approach the image quality possible with more expensive equipment.


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## slclick (May 7, 2019)

flip314 said:


> Are you from Calgary? That actually explains a lot.


Cowtown!


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## slclick (May 7, 2019)

The Fat Fish said:


> "Pro" for Canon is an excuse to put the price even higher. The EOS R is grossly overpriced for what it is and these cameras will no doubt continue the trend. For 2 or 3 other manufacturers you can get great dynamic range, IBIS, excellent video features, dual card slots (in 2), fast FPS and more for £1600-£2000. The EOS R gives you none of that for £2350. It's not a bad camera but it's a very overpriced camera. If they reduced it to around £1400-£1500 it would make way for a £2000ish camera that can actually compete in specs vs price.


USD $1899 R, $1199 RP, hardly grossly overpriced, some would say an incredible bargain. I think it's somewhere in the middle. A good value. Still, I'm waiting for the 5D version and if not, the 5D5, mirror or no mirror, that's not what gets my attention (although I prefer OVF based upon my experience with an Olympus Pen and the M5)


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## sanj (May 7, 2019)

I do not get the point of this post. We all know pro R is in the making....


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## CanoKnight (May 8, 2019)

https://ymcinema.com/2019/05/06/canon-cinema-business-shows-17-drop-in-sales/

After ALL that Canon have done to protect their precious little cinema eos system -- this happens ?? LMAO.


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## Ozarker (May 8, 2019)

scyrene said:


> If they're able to sell enough (by their standards, presumably to make a healthy profit), why would they charge less? If competitors offer "better value" yet customers don't select those products, then they are de facto competing. They're a business, not a charity.


Pay no attention. People like that are constantly complaining about being ripped off and see any profit at all as evil... even as they freely spend their money.


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## Ozarker (May 8, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ===
> I should note however that a sub-$100 smartphone took THESE PHOTOS BELOW which means you really DO NOT have to spend $6000+ on a pro-level stills/video camera at all !!!


*Nobody* HAS TO spend $6,000 on a PROFESSIONAL rig to take photos. However, THOSE PHOTOS ABOVE, taken with the $100 smart phone, ain't..........


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## HarryFilm (May 8, 2019)

flip314 said:


> Are you from Calgary? That actually explains a lot.



---

Naaahhh! I was born in and live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada where it's a balmy, shorts and t-shirt wearing 20 Celcius while Calgary was -2 Celcius this morning at 6:00 am in the Southeast portion of the city where I stayed. I just got back yesterday from Snowmageddon Territory (Calgary!) and took those photos during the weekend and on the drive out back towards Vancouver!

--

AND....that reaaaaalllly teeny tiny sensor on my sub-$100 smartphone took relatively DECENT photos which won't match any APS-C or Full-Frame sensor ....BUT.... it WAS less than $100 !!!! Plus it was much more convenient to carry than the Canon 1Dx Mk2 I usually use.


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## Trey T (May 8, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Interested in a prosumer body. If it would happen to be the 7DII replacement, is it going to be full frame? Or APS-C in a R body? What I am looking forward in a 2 years period is a 5DIV replacement, not a companion camera the R itself is.


Canon have keyed in their path forward to “consolidate”. I suspect they will move all of their R line to FF sensors and utilize the lower res 1D FF sensor. If that’s the case, the 7D replacement will be *******.


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## unfocused (May 8, 2019)

sanj said:


> I do not get the point of this post. We all know pro R is in the making....


Lots of people like the technology as much as they like the photography. Reading about, speculating about and arguing about what is coming down the pike is the driving force behind this site. Posting each bit of new information or even repackaging old information drives users to read and post on this site. Advertisers pay money to serve up ads to the people who take part in these threads. Canon Rumors Guy makes money off those advertisers. He gets to buy Leicas and take trips to Africa from those ad revenues and we get to argue endlessly about triva. What's not to understand?


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## HarryFilm (May 8, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> *Nobody* HAS TO spend $6,000 on a PROFESSIONAL rig to take photos. However, THOSE PHOTOS ABOVE, taken with the $100 smart phone, ain't..........




From a qualitative point of view ... NO they are NOT professional photos but ARE THESE professional photos?

What specifically makes a photo UNPROFESSIONAL in YOUR opinion?
.
Please do tell us the specific attributes which contribute to the term "Unprofessional Photos"!
.
P.S. Do remember to goto FULL SCREEN so you see the ENTIRE photo because the initial CanonRumors photo display page CUTS OFF the bottom and top part of the photos.
.


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## Ozarker (May 8, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> From a qualitative point of view ... NO they are NOT professional photos but ARE THESE professional photos?
> 
> What specifically makes a photo UNPROFESSIONAL in YOUR opinion?
> .
> ...


THESE ain't the same photos. BTW: I NEVER said the others were NOT PROFESSIONAL. That is the INFERENCE you've drawn FROM AN INCOMPLETE SENTENCE. However, your comparing the results from a $100 phone to a $6K pro rig IS SILLY AS ALL HECK... when you imply they are anywhere near each other in quality. Or is that not what you were doing? BUT SINCE YOU ASKED: No. A pro would have got the horizon straight at least in post.


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## ColinJR (May 8, 2019)

unfocused said:


> First, let's keep in mind that this is a CR1.
> 
> That said, it sounds reasonable.
> 
> ...



What if a 7D R (full frame) body really embraced using crop modes? Or, maybe Canon will release a 1.6x teleconverter adapter along side a mirrorless 7D? Given the embrace of a variety of cool adapters when the R was released, I wouldn't be surprised...


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## HarryFilm (May 8, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> THESE ain't the same photos. BTW: I NEVER said the others were NOT PROFESSIONAL. That is the INFERENCE you've drawn FROM AN INCOMPLETE SENTENCE. However, your comparing the results from a $100 phone to a $6K pro rig IS SILLY AS ALL HECK... when you imply they are anywhere near each other in quality. Or is that not what you were doing? BUT SINCE YOU ASKED: No. A pro would have got the horizon straight at least in post.



===

My floor is tilted 


CanonFanBoy said:


> THESE ain't the same photos. BTW: I NEVER said the others were NOT PROFESSIONAL. That is the INFERENCE you've drawn FROM AN INCOMPLETE SENTENCE. However, your comparing the results from a $100 phone to a $6K pro rig IS SILLY AS ALL HECK... when you imply they are anywhere near each other in quality. Or is that not what you were doing? BUT SINCE YOU ASKED: No. A pro would have got the horizon straight at least in post.



---

My photo edit room floor is tilted ...  ;-) ...

and for MORE tilted photos ... try these!



.


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## Ozarker (May 8, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ===
> 
> My floor is tilted
> 
> ...


 Professionals make money with their photographic work. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a photo to, itself, be a professional.


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## Baron_Karza (May 8, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> From a qualitative point of view ... NO they are NOT professional photos but ARE THESE professional photos?
> 
> What specifically makes a photo UNPROFESSIONAL in YOUR opinion?
> .
> ...




I do not get the point of this post. 

(sorry, couldn't resist!  )


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## jeanluc (May 8, 2019)

gmon750 said:


> I'm patiently waiting for a 5D-equivalent R-body. I absolutely love my 5DM3 and while I am quite excited with what Canon is doing (particularly with the R-lenses) I want a 5D-equivalent R-body that doesn't sacrifice what my 5D dSLR is so good at. Battery life, joystick, dials, and instant-on/click performance.
> 
> I'm happy with the current resolution of the 5DM4. I'm not interested in massive pixels.


You should think about a now less expensive 5D4 then. If you like your 5D3, you'll love the 5D4. It is a big step up from the 5D3 in every way....resolution, dual pixel AF, touch screen and much better files with respect to DR, low light, and none of the 5D3 banding. I'm switching to RF not because the EF lenses or the 5D4 are inadequate, but because there is little doubt the next hi-res body will be RF.

Having said that, coming from 5D bodies, the R body takes about an hour to get used to. The layout is a little different, but just as fast once you spend some time with it. I now even like the Touch Bar (I use it to zoom in/out for very accurate focus.


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## unfocused (May 8, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> ...A pro would have got the horizon straight at least in post.



Now that was rude.


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## HarryFilm (May 8, 2019)

Baron_Karza said:


> I do not get the point of this post.
> 
> (sorry, couldn't resist!  )



---

Actually, there IS NO POINT to my posts other than to show MORE of the ULTIMATE Vancouver Hamburger (See above photo!) ..... AND .... YES I ate that !!!
.
AND ... to show that smart phones and other low end gear CAN take decent photos if you know what you're looking for!
.
Like OTHERS have said on this website, the BEST CAMERA is the one you HAVE with you at this very moment!
.
That said, SOMEONE very soon is coming out with a COMBINED medium format sensor, 50 megapixel Stills and DCI 8K 60 fps/DCI 4K 120 fps video at 16 bits per colour channel Monster-of-a-Camera ...AND... that SOMEONE is gonna surprise a WHOLE LOTTA PEOPLE!
.


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## Ozarker (May 8, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Now that was rude.


Yeah, yeah, yeah.


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## masterpix (May 8, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> The 7D brought the newer User Interface and Ergonomics that the 5DIII had. Although it only had 19 AF points...It paved the way for the later 61 point AF system. It's only weakness was the very poor sensor. Other than that the 7D was truly a revolution for Canon. It allowed the 5DIII and 1Dx (which were developed in tandem) to trail blaze the mk4, 7DII and 1DxII.
> I'm guessing flipping the 7Dx' line over to the RF system, Canon will use (what every they decided to call it) it to add development $$$ to the RF range. A continuous AF system that actually works and can cope with a high frame rate...and improved ergos....we all know the RF line REALLY needs some decent ergonomics!


I agree, however, a full frame 7D is... 1Dx. And making an APC-S R camera? Isn't it a step toward the M's?

Crazy idea, but worth thinking about, Take the 7D body (for the ergonomics) place a mirrorless system (to replace the mirror, pentaprism etc) and you have a nice room for IBIS (5 axis if you like), and you get the best of all worlds, ergonomics already made (perfect as far as I can see it) and mirrorless. The only problem is that you can't call it 7R for obvious seasons. 7D-R?


----------



## amorse (May 8, 2019)

Interesting to hear about the rumoured lower resolution action-oriented camera which is not a 1Dxii replacement. Maybe that is being aimed at the market much like the EOS R was to the 5D IV - a reasonable, lower priced camera which can aptly serve as a backup without the higher investment expected of the DLSR cousin. I've always felt that the R was targeted as a second body for someone with a 5D IV - same sensor, close to same performance, 2/3rds price - something to create a foot hold to start transitions to R series cameras.


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## Jasonmc89 (May 8, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I used to say things like this before I switched over to Sony. It is pure denial.
> 
> Canon's strategy is mind boggling as lots of sports shooters have moved to Sony Mirrorless.


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## transpo1 (May 8, 2019)

Well, this makes sense- two models, one high res. They have to have a few pros to sell that $2700 85mm lens to


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## degos (May 8, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> P.S. Do remember to goto FULL SCREEN so you see the ENTIRE photo because the initial CanonRumors photo display page CUTS OFF the bottom and top part of the photos.



I picked the one with the white ferry, I went full-screen. I went to 100% and saw how the trees smoshed into a green oil-painting mess with no detail. I closed the tab.

I did the same with the one of the Harbour Air Turbo-Otter landing. The aircraft itself is blurred due to motion. A sellable shot would be a shutter speed of around 1/60 to 1/80 and pan with the aircraft to give a nice blurred background for dramatic speed. Try that on the smartphone.

Generally they are nice compositions and well-exposed. But shooting on a tiny sensor with a 2mm plastic lens is throwing away your artistic skill. You deserve better outputs than that.


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## GMCPhotographics (May 8, 2019)

amorse said:


> Interesting to hear about the rumoured lower resolution action-oriented camera which is not a 1Dxii replacement. Maybe that is being aimed at the market much like the EOS R was to the 5D IV - a reasonable, lower priced camera which can aptly serve as a backup without the higher investment expected of the DLSR cousin. I've always felt that the R was targeted as a second body for someone with a 5D IV - same sensor, close to same performance, 2/3rds price - something to create a foot hold to start transitions to R series cameras.


I don't know about calling it a lower resolution. The current 7DII is 10 fps @ 20.3 mp. Giving a data throughput of 203mp/sec. The jump between generations / Digic processors is usually a 1.4x bump in performance, although Canon don't always pass this on to it's consumers. So a 7DIII could easily yield 285 mp/sec. At 10 fps...that's a 28mp sensor. 
That's not far off the 5D4 resolution...and at 10 fps. The 7D and 1D of the same generation usually get the same mp...so we could see a 28mp sports sensor resolution coming. A mirrorless 10 fps 28mp and a 1DxIII 16fps with the same resolution.


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## BurningPlatform (May 8, 2019)

I hope Canon does no repeat what they did with their sensors with EOS R and RP.
R ---> 5D mkIV sensor
RP --> 6D mk II sensor
RX --> 1D X mk II sensor?
RS --> 5DS sensor?

As there are these rumors about new sensors, this does not seem to be probable, however logical it may seem.


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## koenkooi (May 8, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> I don't know about calling it a lower resolution. The current 7DII is 10 fps @ 20.3 mp. Giving a data throughput of 203mp/sec. The jump between generations / Digic processors is usually a 1.4x bump in performance, although Canon don't always pass this on to it's consumers. So a 7DIII could easily yield 285 mp/sec. At 10 fps...that's a 28mp sensor.
> That's not far off the 5D4 resolution...and at 10 fps. The 7D and 1D of the same generation usually get the same mp...so we could see a 28mp sports sensor resolution coming. A mirrorless 10 fps 28mp and a 1DxIII 16fps with the same resolution.



The R does 8fps @ 30mp, so a single digic 8 can do 240mp/s. Canon tends to use 2 or 3 of them when high throughput is needed (7D2, 1DX2, 5Dsr) or run it faster as a '+' version (5D4).
I think a dual digic 8 or a single 8+ could hit the 285mp/s you mention. I wonder what the digic 9 will bring, I'm hoping for DPAF in all video modes and better eye tracking.


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## koenkooi (May 8, 2019)

BurningPlatform said:


> I hope Canon does no repeat what they did with their sensors with EOS R and RP.
> R ---> 5D mkIV sensor
> RP --> 6D mk II sensor
> RX --> 1D X mk II sensor?
> ...



For the RS they'd need a new sensor, the 5Ds doesn't have the dual pixel architecture, the 5D4, 6D2 and 1DX2 do have that already.


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## BurningPlatform (May 8, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> For the RS they'd need a new sensor, the 5Ds doesn't have the dual pixel architecture, the 5D4, 6D2 and 1DX2 do have that already.


That's right, of course, a momentary lapse of reason on my part.


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## GMCPhotographics (May 8, 2019)

Really? Not here in the UK. Most sports photogs are using Canon or Nikon Pro DSLR bodies. It must be a tiny slice of the number of pros who are migrating. I'd guess a few freelancers who buy their own kit. Sony doesn't have the pro dealer support and the press agencies (who usually buy the kit) are all tied up in Canon or Nikon supply contracts.


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## Joules (May 8, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> The R does 8fps @ 30mp, so a single digic 8 can do 240mp/s. Canon tends to use 2 or 3 of them when high throughput is needed (7D2, 1DX2, 5Dsr) or run it faster as a '+' version (5D4).
> I think a dual digic 8 or a single 8+ could hit the 285mp/s you mention. I wonder what the digic 9 will bring, I'm hoping for DPAF in all video modes and better eye tracking.


I belive Canon must have found a way to improve their throughput based on the rumors about the new sensors we've heard rumors about recently.

If 285 is the best they could manage, a 70 MP high res R would be capped at 4 FPS! And all rumors we've seen of that sensor indicated that the resolution would be above 70 MP.

The most recent new sensor design we've seen from Canon is in the 6D II from 2017 right? And before that it was the 5D IV in 2016? Since the 6D II eveidently didn't use all the same technology already, is it that unreasonable to assume Canon might have actually focussed on getting the production capaibilities for a newer generation of sensors ready in the more than 2 years since the 5D IV release?


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## Mr Majestyk (May 8, 2019)

Sounds like a long wait for a decent mirrorless offering. Too long for many.


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## deletemyaccount (May 8, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Sounds like a long wait for a decent mirrorless offering. Too long for many.



Sadly after 10 years with Canon I'm now exploring other options. I'm stalling because of a major investment with EF glass. If I do make a switch, I will miss Canon ergonomics. Their bodies fit my hand perfectly.


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## Kit. (May 8, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Now that was rude.


Isn't there a phone camera app that has a "straighten the horizon" checkbox?


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## Deleted member 68328 (May 8, 2019)

As long as they release a 5D Mark V, they can do whatever they want as regards mirrorless.


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## tron (May 8, 2019)

yoms said:


> As long as they release a 5D Mark V, they can do whatever they want as regards mirrorless.


+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


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## tron (May 8, 2019)

And a 7D Mark III and a 5DsR II


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## 3kramd5 (May 8, 2019)

yoms said:


> As long as they release a 5D Mark V, they can do whatever they want as regards mirrorless.



The second half is true.


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## Hector1970 (May 8, 2019)

A full frame 7DR full frame 24mp 12 FPS with a great focusing system and good ISO performance would be most welcome. Crop in viewfinder would be nice so that you could zoom in to focus would be great. The file could be full frame, I’d crop myself afterwards


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## CanoKnight (May 8, 2019)

camerabug said:


> Sadly after 10 years with Canon I'm now exploring other options. I'm stalling because of a major investment with EF glass. If I do make a switch, I will miss Canon ergonomics. Their bodies fit my hand perfectly.


After 13 years I made my first non Canon purchase, the Panasonic S1. I am blown away by the quality of its straight out of the camera jpgs. Video quality is outstanding of course; it's what Panasonic is known for. And it always made me wonder how Panasonic managed to retain so much detail in their videos compared to the dull videos out my Canons. Now it's clear. It's not just video. Panasonic's image processing/image compression technology is on another level and outstanding video is a result of that.

I am not getting rid of my Canon gear though, at least not the 7d2. There will just be no more Canon purchases.


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## slclick (May 8, 2019)

All this chatter of mirrorless and FF 7D series.... the 7D is neither and the 5D is at least closer being FF. Basically you want a higher fps R series with files usable far over 6400 iso. Sounds like that and a higher rez for lanscape/studio work is coming. I think with time, we will all get what we want except those who never get what they want.


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## unfocused (May 8, 2019)

slclick said:


> All this chatter of mirrorless and FF 7D series.... the 7D is neither and the 5D is at least closer being FF.



This is exactly right. Plus, if it is *less* resolution than the R, then it is also not a 7D equivalent (once you consider crop factor).


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## dtaylor (May 8, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> The 7D brought the newer User Interface and Ergonomics that the 5DIII had. Although it only had 19 AF points...It paved the way for the later 61 point AF system. It's only weakness was the very poor sensor.



"Very poor"...it was better than the competition when it was released. People bang on it in retrospect because soon after its release Nikon released new APS-C cameras that legitimately did do better at high ISO and of course had better DR(oning). But for the time and sensor size the 7D wasn't bad at either. And low ISO detail was very, very good.

On the day of its release though it was better than Nikon's offerings in all respects.


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## dtaylor (May 8, 2019)

The Fat Fish said:


> The EOS R is grossly overpriced for what it is and these cameras will no doubt continue the trend. For 2 or 3 other manufacturers you can get great dynamic range, IBIS, excellent video features, dual card slots (in 2), fast FPS and more for £1600-£2000. The EOS R gives you none of that for £2350.



It gives you great dynamic range and excellent video features. Claiming otherwise is living in denial.


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## Jester74 (May 8, 2019)

AlanWill said:


> If I were so anxious to have 4k I'd buy a dedicated 4k video camera.



Just kiddin'... I'd buy a video camera too.


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## dtaylor (May 8, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> After 13 years I made my first non Canon purchase, the Panasonic S1. I am blown away by the quality of its straight out of the camera jpgs.



It's better than the 5D3 in this respect (ooc JPEG) but not better than the 5D4 or R.



> Video quality is outstanding of course; it's what Panasonic is known for.



Can't argue with that.


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## navastronia (May 8, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> After 13 years I made my first non Canon purchase, the Panasonic S1. I am blown away by the quality of its straight out of the camera jpgs. Video quality is outstanding of course; it's what Panasonic is known for. And it always made me wonder how Panasonic managed to retain so much detail in their videos compared to the dull videos out my Canons. Now it's clear. It's not just video. Panasonic's image processing/image compression technology is on another level and outstanding video is a result of that.
> 
> I am not getting rid of my Canon gear though, at least not the 7d2. There will just be no more Canon purchases.


But how’s the autofocus?


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## c.d.embrey (May 8, 2019)

An 18MP sensor in a small, RP sized body with NO IBIS is all I need.


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## HarryFilm (May 8, 2019)

degos said:


> I picked the one with the white ferry, I went full-screen. I went to 100% and saw how the trees smoshed into a green oil-painting mess with no detail. I closed the tab.
> 
> I did the same with the one of the Harbour Air Turbo-Otter landing. The aircraft itself is blurred due to motion. A sellable shot would be a shutter speed of around 1/60 to 1/80 and pan with the aircraft to give a nice blurred background for dramatic speed. Try that on the smartphone.
> 
> Generally they are nice compositions and well-exposed. But shooting on a tiny sensor with a 2mm plastic lens is throwing away your artistic skill. You deserve better outputs than that.



===

THANK YOU! You're the FIRST PERSON to ever give an actual critique of the photos which are ALL TAKEN WITH A SMARTPHONE from a Sony xPeria-2, an Asus Zenfone-2, a Nokia Windows-8 1520, a Samsung Note from 5+ years ago, a sub-$100 smartphone, a 1987-era Betacam SP 720 x 480 pixel Analog Video Frame Grab, and even a child's V-tech 1280 x 720 pixel toy camera!

So the point of this missive is to FORGET about actual gear the you may or may not yet have when you have a camera ALREADY in your hands....sooooooooo....start taking pictures! AS MANY as your system can handle!

Some will be GREAT! Many will not....BUT who cares....KEEP TAKING PHOTOS be it with a sub-$100 camera or a Canon1Dx Mk2 or a 100 megapixel Leica --- JUST KEEP TAKING PICTURES !!!! One of them just might win you an award or a figure in a national or global new story!
.
I usually use either the Canon 1Dc's and C700's for video or a 1Dx Mk2 for stills --- it depends of the industrial imaging assignments I usually get to support our corporate parent which is a much larger aerospace-oriented firm.
.
AND FINALLY, the piece of gear that will EVENTUALLY take over modern imaging will be the APS-C sensor smartphone because that sensor type CAN be put on a smartphone with a lens barrel extender that would actually be able to fit inside of a typical 7 to 12 mm thick smartphone to allow for proper focusing on the sensor-plane.
I still think a 2/3rds inch sensor will be the most common size on upcoming large-sensor smartphone, but APS-C is STILL DOABLE !!!

A full frame sensor would require a minimum 15 mm thick smartphone with an up-to 45 mm extending lens barrel depending upon the spherical or aspherical shape of the sensor's onboard photosite-sized micro-lenses! (i.e. when using Sony's now patent-expired Hyper-HAD technology!)
.
When larger sensors get into smartphones, THEN the world of imaging will change and there WILL NOT BE a Sony AR3 or A6500 or Canon 6D/7D/M-50 since those lower-end interchangeable lens cameras will simply NOT be needed! Canon, Sony, Nikon will have to go high end into medium format OR go into super-rugged big-sensor smartphones and right now SONY has the edge in that it can simply increase the thickness of its pro-level xPeria 4K smartphones (i.e. by putting in a BIGGER BATTERY!) to allow for an interior cutout which can fit a 2/3rds inch or APS-C sensor!

The Euro-centric rumour mill has bandied about that Canon IS doing tests on Android-powered smartphones with at least 2/3rds inch sensors BUT will they be crippled from the outside? If they cripple the camera features or locks-down the phone, Sony ABSOLUTELY WILL introduce a full-feature-set xPeria with a 4K/8K sensor 2/3rds inch smartphone since it ALREADY has the sensors which are now used in it's shoulder mount and camcorder 4K+ video cameras! It just needs to repurpose those chips!
.


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## The Fat Fish (May 8, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> It gives you great dynamic range and excellent video features. Claiming otherwise is living in denial.


The dynamic range is okay. The video features are abysmal.


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## shawn (May 8, 2019)

Canon is obviously trying to move upmarket with their recent pricing direction. The problem is, they may think rich people are mindless followers who will throw money at them simply for being the more expensive option, but the truth is wealthy people tend to make informed decisions. This is why if you look at almost every marketplace out there, be it cars, trucks, computers, etc. the only brands and models that drive innovation and introduce new features are the brands and models that cater to wealthy people.

Canon wants to play in a higher price bracket, but they also want to play games with their camera features. While Sony is offering cameras with video that beats anything from Canon, Canon still chooses to play games with their video feature set in the R.

While Nikon has been offering Camera's with 14-15 stops of DR Canon is acting like the R is good enough with the sensor from the old 5D IV. They want you to go spend 3 grand on the 85 f/1.2 and put it on an R camera that has an obsolete sensor even by Canon's behind the curve standards.

So if they're trying to sell to WEALTHY people, who tend to make informed purchases, why would they buy a camera with objectively worse performance/features?


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## shawn (May 8, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> It gives you great dynamic range and excellent video features. Claiming otherwise is living in denial.



The problem with your statement is that it's not an absolute world. The guy who finished second to Usain Bolt is still excellent, he's also objectively the worse option if you're a betting man.


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## dba101 (May 8, 2019)

The Fat Fish said:


> The dynamic range is okay. The video features are abysmal.


Have you seriously got nothing better to do in Exeter than sit there at 11pm and make negative comments?


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## dtaylor (May 8, 2019)

The Fat Fish said:


> The dynamic range is okay.



You would not be able to find the difference in DR if you shot an R and an A73 side by side and tried to find it.



> The video features are abysmal.



I can link to two professional cinematographers who say otherwise.


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## dtaylor (May 9, 2019)

shawn said:


> Canon wants to play in a higher price bracket, but they also want to play games with their camera features. While Sony is offering cameras with video that beats anything from Canon, Canon still chooses to play games with their video feature set in the R.



The R does 4k @ 480 Mbps while the A73 does 4k @ 100 Mbps. For some people that 100 figure in the Sony specs is playing a game. I've seen comparison footage where the low light capability of 4k FF was evident, but also graded footage where the higher bitrates from the R and the X-T3 was clearly superior to the A73 despite the sensor size difference. Ironically this was most evident in the shadows so you would think the DRoners would be all over Sony for low video bitrates leading to reduced DR.

In all honesty either camera is more capable at video than most people could exploit. But if we're going to discuss the bleeding edge, let's discuss EVERY metric and issue before declaring Canon dead. Because paid professionals who do work at the bleeding edge seem to like the R.



> While Nikon has been offering Camera's with 14-15 stops of DR Canon is acting like the R is good enough with the sensor from the old 5D IV.



I'm dying to know what you think 1ev of difference in a DxO score equates to in the real world. Seriously. Show me your real world high DR shot that you believe just couldn't have been made on an R. If you do you'll be the first person to ever answer that challenge from me. Typically I can't get anyone to match a *7D shot* I like to post in DR discussions.

For all the talk about the importance of DR there is a surprising lack of high DR images.



> They want you to go spend 3 grand on the 85 f/1.2 and put it on an R camera that has an obsolete sensor even by Canon's behind the curve standards.



The R is sharper and more detailed ooc than any of the 24mp cameras on the market, and that's with a relatively strong AA filter. It's amazing to me that people will hammer Canon on a DR "shortfall", which is only visible and exploitable in the most extreme and narrow of circumstances, then declare that more MPs are worthless *when that impacts every shot taken. *

And it's not a simple matter of printing big or cropping heavily. Improving the sensor sampling rate improves IQ across the board. In any optical system the final resolution is less than the weakest component, but improving any component improves the performance. That leads to counterintuitive things like a Coke bottle consumer zoom looking much better on a 5Ds than a 6D (Bob Atkins review) or the corners of a 17-40 f/4L @ f/4 looking better on a FF 5Ds than a crop 7D (my personal observation). So again, let's hammer Canon for improving a metic that improves every image taken while worshipping a metric no one seems able to exploit to the level I was exploiting an original 7D.

It's like I'm not dealing with people who actually look at sample images, but only DxO scores.



shawn said:


> The problem with your statement is that it's not an absolute world. The guy who finished second to Usain Bolt is still excellent, he's also objectively the worse option if you're a betting man.



The problem with your statement is that the race was so close the judges were arguing into the night as to who finished first. But the audience didn't care because it wasn't Usain Bolt and #2, it was two Victoria's Secret models. And nobody in the entire world actually watched the race to see who would finish first.


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## GMCPhotographics (May 9, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> "Very poor"...it was better than the competition when it was released. People bang on it in retrospect because soon after its release Nikon released new APS-C cameras that legitimately did do better at high ISO and of course had better DR(oning). But for the time and sensor size the 7D wasn't bad at either. And low ISO detail was very, very good.
> 
> On the day of its release though it was better than Nikon's offerings in all respects.


Er....no it was a very poor sensor period. Regardless of what Nikon brought out. It was my impressios of my 7D the moment I got it out of the box and took it on a wild life photo shoot. I loved the new AF system, the live view integration was the best so far and the new ergonomics and menu system was way better than anything previous. But I could see iso noise in blue skies at 200 iso. The raw files (once adobe released it's converter for Lightroom) had less lattidude or push ability compared to my full frame 5DII (at the time) and certainly compared to my previous 1.6x crop cameras. The Aliasing filter seemed stronger and files were generally soft at 100%. They needed a higher degree of sharpening than any Canon DSLR I'd owned up to that point. I figured that Canon were trying to hide an inherently noisy sensor by reducing the default sharpening amount. 
Like I said....a great camera that was let down by a poor sensor.


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## Han (May 9, 2019)

As a portrait photographer I am _not_ interested in video-capability. I hoped for a basic professional grade mirrorless camera with a good high-dynamic range sensor, two card-slots, and eventually eye-tracking autofocus. That's it. I need to upgrade my two 5d3 bodies now, and I find myself reading reviews of metabones- or sigma-adapters!! (the bottom line is that next week I will test a Pentax K1 with the 77 mm because of its sensor. pffffff). Sell all my canon-lenses... One bird in hand is better than ten birds on the tree/canon pipeline? Can somebody give me good advice please?


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## edoorn (May 9, 2019)

Han, why would an R not be a good option? It's lacking a second card slot, that's the only thing, but otherwise it has plenty DR for portraits if you ask me (I shoot portraits too and since I control the situation completely, I hardly need to reach into extreem pushes anyway; in particular in the studio that's not an issue at all). Eye AF seems to be quite good since firmware 1.2


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## dtaylor (May 9, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Er....no it was a very poor sensor period. Regardless of what Nikon brought out. It was my impressios of my 7D the moment I got it out of the box and took it on a wild life photo shoot. I loved the new AF system, the live view integration was the best so far and the new ergonomics and menu system was way better than anything previous. But I could see iso noise in blue skies at 200 iso.



Translation: you could pixel peep to a higher magnification than your previous camera.

Really, people should have to take a class and pass a test before being able to unlock 100% viewing in image editors.



> The raw files (once adobe released it's converter for Lightroom) had less lattidude or push ability compared to my full frame 5DII (at the time) and certainly compared to my previous 1.6x crop cameras.



Funny I didn't have that problem.


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## GMCPhotographics (May 9, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> Translation: you could pixel peep to a higher magnification than your previous camera.
> 
> Really, people should have to take a class and pass a test before being able to unlock 100% viewing in image editors.
> 
> ...



Actually I ran both concurrently...full frame and 1.6 crop...and on many workshops. Geeze...you really have an un-personable and condescending forum manner. I stated my experience with the 7D and you instantly dismiss me as some kind of forum troll or newbie. Go look me up.

So who are you and where are your photos?
Maybe you should take a class in how to carry weight on Canon rumors?
Lets see....no avatar...and no personal details or any about details either...and no portfolio images or postings to anything with any photographic content.


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## The Fat Fish (May 9, 2019)

dba101 said:


> Have you seriously got nothing better to do in Exeter than sit there at 11pm and make negative comments?


It's all part of the debate. I have a point of view based on my usage of a camera. Other have theirs. If it was one big circle jerk like the Canon DPReview forum it wouldn't be interesting would it? Also I comment late because I work late.


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## SaP34US (May 9, 2019)

Will one of them will have 70+ mp and the other will an 45- 50ish mp? 
EOS 1R 
70+mp
5-8 fps photos
1080p 120 fps
4k 24 30 & 60fps

EOS 5Ds/sr or 5D
45 or 50 mp
10-12 fps photos
1080 p 120fps
4K up to either 30 or 60fps


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## StoicalEtcher (May 9, 2019)

SaP34US said:


> Will one of them will have 70+ mp and the other will an 45- 50ish mp?
> EOS 1R
> 70+mp
> 5-8 fps photos
> ...


I know it's just chat about opinions, but don't you have those two the wrong way around: the 70+mp more likely to be 5D R version and lower mpix, higher frame-rate to be the EoS 1R ?


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## Lukas Haupt (May 9, 2019)

Han said:


> As a portrait photographer I am _not_ interested in video-capability. I hoped for a basic professional grade mirrorless camera with a good high-dynamic range sensor, two card-slots, and eventually eye-tracking autofocus. That's it. I need to upgrade my two 5d3 bodies now, and I find myself reading reviews of metabones- or sigma-adapters!! (the bottom line is that next week I will test a Pentax K1 with the 77 mm because of its sensor. pffffff). Sell all my canon-lenses... One bird in hand is better than ten birds on the tree/canon pipeline? Can somebody give me good advice please?


My advice is go and try the R. I had 1DX (mk I) and 6D (mk I), which was replaced by R. After 2-3 weeks using I sold also 1DX and bought second R. Reasons? *IQ* - I don t have nay problems with - actualy it is really good since I see my exposure in EVF (I m shooting mostly wedding, proms, etc.); *weigth and ergonomics*; *AF* - simply far better than DX (for my purpose) - I have like 7 L lenses and finally I don t have to do microadjustments and all of them are now tack sharp. *Eye AF* works perfectly since last FW. 

Only bad thing could be one card slot, but be honest I never had card failure. When I ll experience one, I ll change my mind. 

I think, that it is really better than on the paper. But as usually it really depens on user. I can say, that I finally able to make pictures, that I wasn t able to do with previous combo. Like this:


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## slclick (May 9, 2019)

Lukas Haupt said:


> My advice is go and try the R. I had 1DX (mk I) and 6D (mk I), which was replaced by R. After 2-3 weeks using I sold also 1DX and bought second R. Reasons? *IQ* - I don t have nay problems with - actualy it is really good since I see my exposure in EVF (I m shooting mostly wedding, proms, etc.); *weigth and ergonomics*; *AF* - simply far better than DX (for my purpose) - I have like 7 L lenses and finally I don t have to do microadjustments and all of them are now tack sharp. *Eye AF* works perfectly since last FW.
> 
> Only bad thing could be one card slot, but be honest I never had card failure. When I ll experience one, I ll change my mind.
> 
> ...


Beautiful image!


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## amorse (May 9, 2019)

Han said:


> As a portrait photographer I am _not_ interested in video-capability. I hoped for a basic professional grade mirrorless camera with a good high-dynamic range sensor, two card-slots, and eventually eye-tracking autofocus. That's it. I need to upgrade my two 5d3 bodies now, and I find myself reading reviews of metabones- or sigma-adapters!! (the bottom line is that next week I will test a Pentax K1 with the 77 mm because of its sensor. pffffff). Sell all my canon-lenses... One bird in hand is better than ten birds on the tree/canon pipeline? Can somebody give me good advice please?


Honestly, my best advice is just buy what you believe need and don't look back. If you feel that you're better served by the Pentax K1 then buy the Pentax K1. I'd just be sure that it solves your need - it certainly isn't going to have eye detect in the same format as the current mirrorless iterations, and I'd question the level of support it will continue to receive as I don't think they've been extremely active in releasing new lenses (though I could be wrong). I'd also verify how well the lenses perform via an adapter first, but if it's all good then go for it. 

Everyone's needs are different, and no-one here is going to be able give solid advice without intimately knowing your needs. Most of those conversations seem to go like this:
Statement: "I need a camera with high DR, eye detect, and two card slots"
Response: "No you don't"

My best advice is to just honestly ask yourself which features will advance your photography hobby/business the most, identify which system best suits that need, then buy into that system. You won't need to second guess your decision if you select a system which has everything you actually need now.

For me, I use a 5D IV and it has yet to let me down. I can find just about any lens I could need without adapting, the image quality is great, and the thing has the reliability of a tank. Sure, a bit more DR might help occasionally, but honestly I can't think of even one photo that I missed because the DR was insufficient, and I shoot a lot of high DR scenes. But again, my needs are my needs and not everyone has the same needs.


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## CanoKnight (May 9, 2019)

navastronia said:


> But how’s the autofocus?



With my Sigma MC-21 adapter it's ok. Not great but ok. It does the job. For fast shooting though, when I have to take a lot of pictures in a short amount of time with no fuss, the 7d mark II is still king. It's also the king for focus tracking and frame rate while producing decent image quality which is why I won't part with it. But for everything else the S1 reigns supreme. It's my "Art camera".

There is something I discovered about the S1's focus that I haven't seen discussed in any of the reviews. Everyone knows, or at least those in the know know, that the Sigma adapter doesn't do continuous AF. It's a bit of a setback for video shooting. However -- the single AF is still active during video recording and if the subject moves all you have to do is gently tap on the shutter release and it will refocus - and surprisingly I didn't see any hunting during the refocus. It moves straight to the new focus point. But what really impressed me is the way it refocuses. The focus transition is _ gentle_, not a sudden jump, like in the movies where focus transitions gently between people having a conversation. No doubt this camera was designed with film makers in mind.


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## melgross (May 10, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> I'm a 5D IV shooter who wants a FF mirrorless with the same or better capabilities. I'd love to start using Rf glass, but I don't want to step down or buy a high-MP count sensor. Doubt I'm the only such customer. In the meantime, I can take great pics with the dSLR and legacy Ef lenses.



I’m sort of in the same situation as you. When the 5Dr series came out, I really wanted the high resolution, but not at the expense of why I bought the first 5D, or the second. So I waited until the IV came out, and bought that.

But I’m not a sports shooter, and my daughter is grown up, so I no longer need to shoot the somewhat unpredictable antics of a younger child.

Now, most of my shooting (when I’m not using my iPhone, that is), is more contemplative, so my previous needs have changed somewhat.


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## navastronia (May 10, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> With my Sigma MC-21 adapter it's ok. Not great but ok. It does the job. For fast shooting though, when I have to take a lot of pictures in a short amount of time with no fuss, the 7d mark II is still king. It's also the king for focus tracking and frame rate while producing decent image quality which is why I won't part with it. But for everything else the S1 reigns supreme. It's my "Art camera".
> 
> There is something I discovered about the S1's focus that I haven't seen discussed in any of the reviews. Everyone knows, or at least those in the know know, that the Sigma adapter doesn't do continuous AF. It's a bit of a setback for video shooting. However -- the single AF is still active during video recording and if the subject moves all you have to do is gently tap on the shutter release and it will refocus - and surprisingly I didn't see any hunting during the refocus. It moves straight to the new focus point. But what really impressed me is the way it refocuses. The focus transition is _ gentle_, not a sudden jump, like in the movies where focus transitions gently between people having a conversation. No doubt this camera was designed with film makers in mind.



That's pretty lovely about the focus ability for video!


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## privatebydesign (May 10, 2019)

Lukas Haupt said:


> My advice is go and try the R. I had 1DX (mk I) and 6D (mk I), which was replaced by R. After 2-3 weeks using I sold also 1DX and bought second R. Reasons? *IQ* - I don t have nay problems with - actualy it is really good since I see my exposure in EVF (I m shooting mostly wedding, proms, etc.); *weigth and ergonomics*; *AF* - simply far better than DX (for my purpose) - I have like 7 L lenses and finally I don t have to do microadjustments and all of them are now tack sharp. *Eye AF* works perfectly since last FW.
> 
> Only bad thing could be one card slot, but be honest I never had card failure. When I ll experience one, I ll change my mind.
> 
> ...


Whilst i agree it is a nice picture i can’t for the life of me understand why you don’t believe you could have taken that with a 1DX or a 6D, or in fact pretty much any camera made in the last 15 years.


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## Lukas Haupt (May 10, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Whilst i agree it is a nice picture i can’t for the life of me understand why you don’t believe you could have taken that with a 1DX or a 6D, or in fact pretty much any camera made in the last 15 years.


Because of AF and angle of view. It was shot like 5-10 cm above the puddle. Ok composing could be done due to live view on any old camera, but MY 1DX or 6D had really ba AF, when comes to live view performance. So ok, there is possibility, that I could do that with previous set up, but it would be really difficult for me. For me, personally, is tilt screen and DPAF game changer (it makes my life more easier with more consistent results).


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## dtaylor (May 10, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Geeze...you really have an un-personable and condescending forum manner.



Why? Because I challenged statements you made?



> I stated my experience with the 7D and you instantly dismiss me as some kind of forum troll or newbie.



I did neither. To be clear: misinterpreting pixel peeping is a general problem regardless of experience level. You complained about "noise in blue skies at ISO 200". Well, magnify any crop sensor image _from the time period_ to the same size as a pixel peeped 18mp image and you will get noise in blue skies.



> So who are you and where are your photos?



You accuse me of making it personal which I did not, then try to make it personal. _Maybe you should take a class in how to carry weight on Canon rumors?_


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## privatebydesign (May 10, 2019)

Lukas Haupt said:


> Because of AF and angle of view. It was shot like 5-10 cm above the puddle. Ok composing could be done due to live view on any old camera, but MY 1DX or 6D had really ba AF, when comes to live view performance. So ok, there is possibility, that I could do that with previous set up, but it would be really difficult for me. For me, personally, is tilt screen and DPAF game changer (it makes my life more easier with more consistent results).


Thanks for replying. Yes DPAF is a very nice addition in all cameras, MILC and DSLR, post your 1DX and 6D generation, tilt screens aren’t exclusive to MILC’s either, so an 80D or 6D MkII would have been just as effective.

I suppose I was hoping you would have a compelling reason why an MILC camera could take the shot better than a DSLR, but it seems the features that facilitated it for you are readily available in DSLR’s too.


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## Lukas Haupt (May 10, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Thanks for replying. Yes DPAF is a very nice addition in all cameras, MILC and DSLR, post your 1DX and 6D generation, tilt screens aren’t exclusive to MILC’s either, so an 80D or 6D MkII would have been just as effective.
> 
> I suppose I was hoping you would have a compelling reason why an MILC camera could take the shot better than a DSLR, but it seems the features that facilitated it for you are readily available in DSLR’s too.


Yes, defiitelly could be possible with 6D mk II (80D would have different, not so pleasing DOF), but I was comparing only my previous setup. So i went from DX (OLD, but still pro body) to R (NOT pro), but still I m benefiting from that change. That is also reason why I bought second R, and 28-70 and 50 are on the way


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## YuengLinger (May 10, 2019)

Lukas Haupt said:


> Yes, defiitelly could be possible with 6D mk II (80D would have different, not so pleasing DOF), but I was comparing only my previous setup. So i went from DX (OLD, but still pro body) to R (NOT pro), but still I m benefiting from that change. That is also reason why I bought second R, and 28-70 and 50 are on the way


In any event, you've shared a great shot, from capture to post. Thanks!


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## canonnews (May 11, 2019)

SaP34US said:


> Will one of them will have 70+ mp and the other will an 45- 50ish mp?
> EOS 1R
> 70+mp
> 5-8 fps photos
> ...



it's actually hard to say IMO, it depends on what that second body really is. a sports shooter or a general purpose camera.

I doubt we'd see one around 70 and the other at 40-50 though.

I would assume that it would be around 70, and around 24. That's just based upon really a guess. but it's a lot easier to make seriously good grade video with a 20-30mp sensor than it ever would be with a 40-50. there's a reason all the very good hybrid stills/video cameras are around 24.

and forget any notion of the 70mp one having good 4k video, IMO. nor should it even be a focus of that camera.

I doubt any one of them is a 1 series camera either.


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## TAF (May 11, 2019)

SaP34US said:


> Will one of them will have 70+ mp and the other will an 45- 50ish mp?
> EOS 1R
> 70+mp
> 5-8 fps photos
> ...




I still hope for Canon to add 640x480 (yes, that's quite a crop) at 480fps or better to the menu. The used price for a Casio F1 continues to climb.

I am quite pleased with my 5D3, but I would appreciate something a bit smaller and lighter. The only reason I'm waiting/debating the original R is the prospect of IBIS. I think I would find that very helpful...actually, I am certain I would.

Not sure I need 70+mp. But then again, I'd have to try it and see if it provides me with enhanced capability, or if it proved a hindrance.

Until then, my 5D3 continues to perform completely satisfactorily.


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## slclick (May 11, 2019)

Is it too early to start wishing for 5D5 rumors? I'm ok with mirrors.


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## David the street guy (May 12, 2019)

slclick said:


> I'm ok with mirrors.



"Mirrors and copulation are abominable, for they they both multiply the number of men."
Jorge Luis Borges


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## Michael Clark (May 13, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> "We’re told that there is a general feeling professional sports shooters (and other professional EOS-1D shooters) will be the last to embrace mirrorless cameras across the board"
> Pro sports shooters? Both of them switched to the Sony A9 last I heard.
> 
> Seriously, an R with a joystick, two cards and an ISO button would be all I need.



They're certainly not as large of a piece of the marketplace as they used to be. There are too many wealthy "semi-pro" enthusiasts willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on gear and then shoot for peanuts, if not for nothing, just to have access to games. It's worse now than it was back in 2015 when this was written:

What Killed Editorial Sports Photography?: You’ve Got To Hustle As A Sports Shooter These Days


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## AlanF (May 13, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> They're certainly not as large of a piece of the marketplace as they used to be. There are too many wealthy "semi-pro" enthusiasts willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on gear and then shoot for peanuts, if not for nothing, just to have access to games. It's worse now than it was back in 2015 when this was written:
> 
> What Killed Editorial Sports Photography?: You’ve Got To Hustle As A Sports Shooter These Days


That was a depressing article by pros. So, the market is being driven by wealthy and not so wealthy amateurs.


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## Michael Clark (May 13, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> https://ymcinema.com/2019/05/06/canon-cinema-business-shows-17-drop-in-sales/
> 
> After ALL that Canon have done to protect their precious little cinema eos system -- this happens ?? LMAO.



Right in the middle of the graphic at your link:

Note: Businesses such as broadcast equipment and cinema use video cameras that were included in Imaging System were reclassified to industry and Other.

These numbers do not even include cinema cameras any more.



masterpix said:


> I agree, however, a full frame 7D is... 1Dx. And making an APC-S R camera? Isn't it a step toward the M's?
> 
> Crazy idea, but worth thinking about, Take the 7D body (for the ergonomics) place a mirrorless system (to replace the mirror, pentaprism etc) and you have a nice room for IBIS (5 axis if you like), and you get the best of all worlds, ergonomics already made (perfect as far as I can see it) and mirrorless. The only problem is that you can't call it 7R for obvious seasons. 7D-R?



R7. Canon had no qualms about putting the EOS 1D up against Nikon's D1 back in the day.




dtaylor said:


> "Very poor"...it was better than the competition when it was released. People bang on it in retrospect because soon after its release Nikon released new APS-C cameras that legitimately did do better at high ISO and of course had better DR(oning). But for the time and sensor size the 7D wasn't bad at either. And low ISO detail was very, very good.
> 
> On the day of its release though it was better than Nikon's offerings in all respects.



On the day of its release the 7D sensor wasn't even as good as the one in the 50D I replaced with the 7D.




dtaylor said:


> Translation: you could pixel peep to a higher magnification than your previous camera.
> 
> Really, people should have to take a class and pass a test before being able to unlock 100% viewing in image editors.
> 
> Funny I didn't have that problem.



Forget pixel peeping. You can see the low ISO noise in the sky when viewing the entire image downsized to fit a 24" monitor. Viewing images from the 7D next to images from the 50D, much less the 5D Mark II, when both were displayed at the same size was very telling.


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## StoicalEtcher (May 13, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> .....It's worse now than it was back in 2015 when this was written:
> 
> What Killed Editorial Sports Photography?: You’ve Got To Hustle As A Sports Shooter These Days


Many thanks for sharing that link - interesting take (as well as somewhat depressing for sports photogs!).


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## deleteme (May 14, 2019)

AlanF said:


> That was a depressing article by pros. So, the market is being driven by wealthy and not so wealthy amateurs.


Once the world transitioned to digital, imaging was accessible to a much larger cohort. In addition, the demands of digital R&D meant that greater volumes of product needed to be moved to get the costs to a manageable level. The two curves met at what seemed to be very high prices initially but well heeled amateurs and news organizations paid for the early gear. As costs declined, more enthusiasts got into the game and news orgs were going broke. This has left the industry dependent on hobbyists and semi-pros that churn gear. 
The latest drops in sales by the camera manufacturers represent the saturation of the market. The gear sold in the last few years have reached sufficiency and many owners of new gear are realizing their last purchases did not transport them to the promised land and feel (rightfully) that the newest intros will unlikely do it either.


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## privatebydesign (May 14, 2019)

AlanF said:


> That was a depressing article by pros. So, the market is being driven by wealthy and not so wealthy amateurs.


Oh yes, I have said many times the non pro posters here have more valuable and modern equipment than most of the actual working pros I know.

My best pro friend shoots competitive college level sports, he is regularly displaced, teams are very limited in their pass allocations, by another friend who tunes the piano for the band but has all the latest gear and shoots for free for access. Only a fool believes there is a business model as a traditional pro sports shooter now, or has been for quite some time.


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## TAF (May 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Oh yes, I have said many times the non pro posters here have more valuable and modern equipment than most of the actual working pros I know.
> 
> My best pro friend shoots competitive college level sports, he is regularly displaced, teams are very limited in their pass allocations, by another friend who tunes the piano for the band but has all the latest gear and shoots for free for access. Only a fool believes their is a business model as a traditional pro sports shooter now, or has been for quite some time.



With all due respect to the pro, if the team is satisfied with the results from the free piano tuner guy such that they use him instead of the pro, then either the team has low expectations and is more concerned with cost, or said pro needs to up his game.

Because we know that the equipment doesn’t matter that much, right?


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## Michael Clark (May 21, 2019)

TAF said:


> With all due respect to the pro, if the team is satisfied with the results from the free piano tuner guy such that they use him instead of the pro, then either the team has low expectations and is more concerned with cost, or said pro needs to up his game.
> 
> Because we know that the equipment doesn’t matter that much, right?



It's all about cost to the people who make those decisions. If it's for free, it's for me!

Most of those shooters are at least competent. Many are pretty good and some are great. There's never been a dividing line where all "pros" are at one level above all "semi-pros" who are better than all "amateurs." It's just a shame that now one needs to be pretty much independently wealthy to even get access to show what one is capable of producing.


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## proutprout (May 28, 2019)

Sony is killing all sales in mirrorless sector, and its crazy to me how canon is shooting themselves in the foot with bad products. Eos R is a sales disaster because of it’s limitations, but it doesnt seem to occur to anyone at canon that they need to stop doing what they are doing currently and change. Nope, let’s continue with products no one wants, we’ll be fine ! A mirrorless 1d was needed 6 month ago for a low price to make everyone believe the company can still actually deliver something. But apparently not. Let’s put 3k lenses on amateur bodies that makes a lot of sense ! Marvelous !


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## Ozarker (May 28, 2019)

TAF said:


> With all due respect to the pro, if the team is satisfied with the results from the free piano tuner guy such that they use him instead of the pro, then either the team has low expectations and is more concerned with cost, or said pro needs to up his game.
> 
> Because we know that the equipment doesn’t matter that much, right?


What makes one think an amateur/enthusiast can't shoot better photos than a professional (simply means he gets paid)? I think the idea that a professional is automatically better than a non-professional is silly.


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## Ozarker (May 28, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Sony is killing all sales in mirrorless sector, and its crazy to me how canon is shooting themselves in the foot with bad products. Eos R is a sales disaster because of it’s limitations, but it doesnt seem to occur to anyone at canon that they need to stop doing what they are doing currently and change. Nope, let’s continue with products no one wants, we’ll be fine ! A mirrorless 1d was needed 6 month ago for a low price to make everyone believe the company can still actually deliver something. But apparently not. Let’s put 3k lenses on amateur bodies that makes a lot of sense ! Marvelous !


 And yet, Sony is quickly losing market share to Canon and Nikon in the FF MILC sector and really doesn't compete at all in the crop sensor area. You say nobody wants what Canon is putting out... yet many here on the forum have bought in. People do want the products. Now, if Sony could possibly figure out how to make a 200mm, 300mm, 500mm, 600mm, or 800mm lens or something in tilt/shift... Sony might survive. Otherwise, Sony's MILC camera division is *******. BTW: Nothing wrong with $3k lenses on a FF budget body (RP) or the mid-range R. Sony has plenty of that. However, you and I both know that $3k lenses aren't all that is offered or all that will be offered. Right now, there is only 1 $3k lens, the 28-70. RF lens prices run from $449 and up. You say the 1D grade mirrorless was needed 6 months ago. Canon thinks differently. However, you wouldn't buy one if it were available anyway, so what are you complaining about? It will be a real pity what happens to Sony when Canon releases the next two FF MILC bodies. Nowhere to go but down.

https://www.techradar.com/news/sony...mera-share-to-nikon-in-japanese-market-report

When will you be changing your nick again AvTvM, Mirage, fullstop, etc?


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## bokehmon22 (Jun 4, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> After 13 years I made my first non Canon purchase, the Panasonic S1. I am blown away by the quality of its straight out of the camera jpgs. Video quality is outstanding of course; it's what Panasonic is known for. And it always made me wonder how Panasonic managed to retain so much detail in their videos compared to the dull videos out my Canons. Now it's clear. It's not just video. Panasonic's image processing/image compression technology is on another level and outstanding video is a result of that.
> 
> I am not getting rid of my Canon gear though, at least not the 7d2. There will just be no more Canon purchases.



I didn't know there are other people like me who was a Canon user for a long time and purchase S1. I'm definitely very happy with my S1.

I got free battery and grip ($430), free 3 years extended battery, free vlog upgrade. Sold my grip and sold my 5D IV for the same price I got my S1 for. It's definitely cheaper than I thought transitioning FF mirrorless.

I can't believe how much value I get from buying Panasonic S1 camera vs my Canon 5D IV and EOS R. Better EVF, great IBIS (hand held 2 seconds!), dual card slot, better sensor, and much better 4K.

I hope after the Panasonic S1H, 2.8 trinity lenses release, VLOG upgrade, they can turn their attention to updating the AF FW and MC-21 with AF-C support.

One of the best value camera I've bought for a long time. I think if Canon were to deliver comparable features, it would be around $3500-4000.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 6, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> I hope after the Panasonic S1H, 2.8 trinity lenses release, VLOG upgrade, they can turn their attention to updating the AF FW



What are you looking for in a brand new camera in terms of AF firmware? Panasonic already has arguably the best CDAF. Can it be improved? Of course. Will it overall outperform PDAF (from canon, nikon, sony, etc) which their camera hardware isn’t set up for? ... probably not.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 6, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Let’s put 3k lenses on amateur bodies that makes a lot of sense ! Marvelous !



If one were to datamine all photography gear discussions and affinitize sentiments, I bet in the top three would be “spend the biggest portion of your budget on glass, not bodies.”

While personally I’d put lighting equipment ahead of both glass and bodies, I wonder: has that sentiment changed with the current generation of mirrorless ILCs?


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## bokehmon22 (Jun 6, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> What are you looking for in a brand new camera in terms of AF firmware? Panasonic already has arguably the best CDAF. Can it be improved? Of course. Will it overall outperform PDAF (from canon, nikon, sony, etc) which their camera hardware isn’t set up for? ... probably not.



Just some UI adjustment for simplication 

Instead of box with cross hair on the eyes, I prefer how Sony and Canon has it with small box around the eye. 

Boxes around the face with joystick to quickly change to the next person left or right instead of multiple big boxes around the entire person. 

C-AF for MC-21 adapter for EF-L adapter. 

Stick to eyeAF more. 

Option to select left and right eye. 

I don't expect it to be better than Canon for video but for stills, I think it's better than my Canon 5DIV for my style of shoot. EyeAF, more sensitive - 6EV, and no micro adjustment.


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## BillB (Jun 6, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> Once the world transitioned to digital, imaging was accessible to a much larger cohort. In addition, the demands of digital R&D meant that greater volumes of product needed to be moved to get the costs to a manageable level. The two curves met at what seemed to be very high prices initially but well heeled amateurs and news organizations paid for the early gear. As costs declined, more enthusiasts got into the game and news orgs were going broke. This has left the industry dependent on hobbyists and semi-pros that churn gear.
> The latest drops in sales by the camera manufacturers represent the saturation of the market. The gear sold in the last few years have reached sufficiency and many owners of new gear are realizing their last purchases did not transport them to the promised land and feel (rightfully) that the newest intros will unlikely do it either.


Some of us have been lucky enough to find that our last purchase was a pretty good camera, and that we won't need to buy another one for quite a while, if ever. Not being obsessed with spray and pray techniques for getting better pictures of flying birds or fast moving athletes in low light may help.


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## deleteme (Jun 7, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Sony is killing all sales in mirrorless sector, and its crazy to me how canon is shooting themselves in the foot with bad products. Eos R is a sales disaster because of it’s limitations, but it doesnt seem to occur to anyone at canon that they need to stop doing what they are doing currently and change. Nope, let’s continue with products no one wants, we’ll be fine ! A mirrorless 1d was needed 6 month ago for a low price to make everyone believe the company can still actually deliver something. But apparently not. Let’s put 3k lenses on amateur bodies that makes a lot of sense ! Marvelous !


The bulk of the market is exactly where Canon is aiming with the R and RP. Carping about the absence of an Uber -pro body is a hobbyist's luxury. Look where the numbers are and you will see that Canon is actually a lot more aware of the market than many give them credit for. 
I do not really believe that Canon is ******* despite those Sony fans who repeat that prayer.


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## Ozarker (Jun 7, 2019)

David the street guy said:


> "Mirrors and copulation are abominable, for they they both multiply the number of men."
> Jorge Luis Borges


Sounds like a miserable guy to me. I find copulation to be a wonderful thing.


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