# Problems with AF on birds @ R5



## XL+ (Oct 15, 2020)

Beautiful evening!

I need the help of experienced R5 users, please! My R5`s AF fails, when I want to shoot birds that are not format-filling. The AF always focusses on infinity and stays there, even if the selected AF field (spot AF, extended spot AF) is pointing sufficiently on the bird. The subject meets all needs on contrast and size to cover the whole AF-points. To solve this problem, I´ve to rearrange and point the AF field on much nearer object, then it focusses correctly in most cases. 
But this is not satisfacting. These days I lost a lot of shots, when an kingfisher fetched fishes mnultiple times out of the water.

Any advide to solve this background fixation?
Thank you!


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## Nemorino (Oct 15, 2020)

How did you hold the camera? Upright or horizontal?


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## XL+ (Oct 15, 2020)

Nemorino said:


> How did you hold the camera? Upright or horizontal?


horizontal.

But the bird had a lot of horizontal, vertical and diagonal structures. The 5D Makr IV did not have any problems with Single AF and spot AF. I tried it too.
Maybe there is an Af setting, I did not change... I´ve also tried a lot changes at AF and resetted it at the end


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## AlanF (Oct 15, 2020)

It's a problem with Nikon, Sony and now Canon mirrorless that they don't give closest subject priority so often they will focus on background. I have found that sometimes annoying with the R5, but not to the extent you seem to have but I generally use eyeAF, which seem to recognise eyes quickly.


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## Act444 (Oct 15, 2020)

Yes, I had a similar issue with the RP a few months earlier...very frustrating to be honest as my 5D bodies don't do this. it's a mirrorless issue I think. Still maturing...

DSLRs aren't dead just yet


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## Nemorino (Oct 15, 2020)

XL+ said:


> horizontal


I thought it could be a problem of the DPAF. Maybe confused by the QPAF rumours.
Sorry, i cannot help you!


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## YuengLinger (Oct 16, 2020)

Could you share your current AF settings? And what different things you've tried with the settings? How is it doing with stationary subjects at various distances? Is it happening with more than one lens? How does it work with subjects on the ground but moving somewhat quickly?

Hope it's just a familiarity issue for you!


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## docsmith (Oct 16, 2020)

I have reprogramed the "*" button to be a single point AF. Whenever I am having issues with AF, I switch to the "*" button, aim at target, and then I switch back to AF-On which is set to eye-AF. By getting the subject is good initial focus, the Eye-AF can then take over.


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## AlanF (Oct 16, 2020)

docsmith said:


> I have reprogramed the "*" button to be a single point AF. Whenever I am having issues with AF, I switch to the "*" button, aim at target, and then I switch back to AF-On which is set to eye-AF. By getting the subject is good initial focus, the Eye-AF can then take over.


Similarly here. For my C1 mode for static or slow moving subjects the shutter button activates single point AF and the AF-On button overrides that to animal eyeAF. I would like to have it the other way round as well but you can't do it so clearly. You can set the shutter button to activate eyeAF but I couldn't find out how to asssign another button to single point AF, only to set it to start at the centre.


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## Canonite (Oct 17, 2020)

Myself I have setup the R5 with back button focus, one button for autofocus (af-on)z, and the other (*) button for eye detection.
I have not had many issues with birds inflight or statics, but there are times that my lens will lose the subject and won't refocus without manually turning the focusing ring on the 600 IS II lens. I also think autofocus was a bit better before the 1.1.1 firmware at least for the 600mm.


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## XL+ (Oct 21, 2020)

Thank you all!
Sorry for late answering, I had some hardware issues with my computer
I am trying a lot to customize the settings and find the best solution. But the AF still struggles.
Next, the AF single, switched to automatic AF with all fields will be tested.


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## XL+ (Oct 21, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> Could you share your current AF settings? And what different things you've tried with the settings? How is it doing with stationary subjects at various distances? Is it happening with more than one lens? How does it work with subjects on the ground but moving somewhat quickly?
> 
> Hope it's just a familiarity issue for you!


AF method: []
Motives: animals
Eyedetection activated
AF case 4
kontinuos AF

As an example, the approaching redkite was never detected by the AF in this setting, even when it was filling half of the screen. Pressing the AF button several times did not change the AF-point and the body did not refocus.


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## XL+ (Oct 21, 2020)

The same in single spot AF:
Focussing on the kingfisher was not possible. Always the AF went back to the background. Only, when I manually refocussed on an near bush, the AF point found the bird.


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## PunkRawkJay (Oct 21, 2020)

I've you tried changing your case setting to 2?


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## XL+ (Oct 22, 2020)

PunkRawkJay said:


> I've you tried changing your case setting to 2?


Yes, I tried each case. Also with varying each parameter.
Bu I do not find an solution for this problem


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## VegasCameraGuy (Oct 22, 2020)

I don't know if it would help but Michael the Maven has a YouTube video on using the R5 for Birds in Flight that might be helpful.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 22, 2020)

We've gotten a lot of info from you, XL+. I hope you are resolving the issue! These questions and discussions help all involved learn more about their cameras, for sure.

I'm stuck home today waiting for my R6. Of course what I will try FIRST is AF!

If others were having AF problems as bad as you, XL+, the Web would be aflame. And all the great reviews we've been reading are fake.

My point? I hope you are within your return window. This terrible performance you are sharing seems to point to some failure within your camera, not trouble learning how to use it.

Please keep us up to date!


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## PunkRawkJay (Oct 22, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> I don't know if it would help but Michael the Maven has a YouTube video on using the R5 for Birds in Flight that might be helpful.


Thanks! I couldn't figure out how to use that manual focus feature before seeing this... too easy!


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## VegasCameraGuy (Oct 23, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> If others were having AF problems as bad as you, XL+, the Web would be aflame. And all the great reviews we've been reading are fake.


As a new R5 owner, having moved up from a Canon EOS 80D, I've struggled to try to learn how to use the AF system. The Canon advanced user's manual, all 900+ pages, doesn't help at all. It is basically screenshots of the menus with little explanation of how to use the features of autofocus. Luckily there are a number of YouTube bloggers that have helped to explain how the system works. I think that we are lucky in that the camera works well even when you don't fully understand how it works. A lot of R5 owners came from a 5D4 and the transition wasn't as bad for them as many of the features came over from the 5D4. For those of us who jumped into the R5, I think a lot of people felt that when you pay $4000 for a camera body you would get a decent manual.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 23, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> ...For those of us who jumped into the R5, I think a lot of people felt that when you pay $4000 for a camera body you would get a decent manual.



Surely the included hard-copy quick start guide has enough information to explain how to take a shot of a bird sitting still. Just to get the camera up and running and ready for some fun to try it out?

The Advanced User Guide is available for free, and can be viewed on PC, tablet, or phone. It's massive! I've read some criticism of it here, but it's already a textbook at 919 pages. You do bring up a good point: If this is your first Canon camera, it's a whole lot of new material! But there is a cottage industry of youtubers, and hard-copy writers selling books on Amazon. And there are even people selling a printed version of the AUG.

And then there is good old Google for learning features that don't seem intuitive, or learning new features better.

The 80D's manual was the same Canon style I've seen for 15 years now. Should they reboot their approach? Perhaps, but Canon does put out some good online guides, both text and video. Rudy Winston spent years educating Canon customers.

People pay $50,000 and plenty more for high-end vehicles and get briefer owners' manuals. It takes time to learn all the new features, to get to that point where the machine becomes an extension of ourselves, something we hardly think about while using.

Having just finished setting up the R6 for the first time, I simply accept that I've got to try many of the new features and customizations for some time before I get it just right for me. And that was over 90 minutes of going tab by tab, trying to understand the sometimes cryptic "Help" included with many of the functions.

But the point with the OP's AF problems is not that he can't get things set correctly--he has shown us he knows more than enough to be getting things in focus! Unless he is just overlooking something obvious, and will slap himself in the forehead very soon, his particular camera body seems to have a serious AF failing.

By the way, have we learned what shutter speed the samples were shot at?

EDIT: I should have added that CR is a great place to share tips and tricks too! After a morning using my new R6, I'm seeing some little customization speed bumps that are surprising.


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## AlanF (Oct 23, 2020)

The new mirrorless of all makes are complex pieces of machinery with a large number of customization features. Videos like Michael the Maven's are a useful entree.


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## docsmith (Oct 23, 2020)

Yep. The R5 is definitely worth diving in and learning the tricks. 

just having watched the video, I like what he did, but I am not sure I am going to adapt it as I may like what I have done more (loosely based on Jan Wegener’s videos). But AF-on is set to AF, then while setting that up you press the info button and this is designated to Eye-AF, the * button is the same, but assigned to expanded single point, but then, my trigger button is still AF, but has whatever mode is selected. I have it set as the small single point, but this can be adjusted quickly.

So, three different AF methods on three different buttons.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 23, 2020)

It would be nice if one button could be assigned to toggle between Eye-AF and single point, rather than having to devote two buttons to the job. Or have I missed something?


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## SteveC (Oct 23, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> It would be nice if one button could be assigned to toggle between Eye-AF and single point, rather than having to devote two buttons to the job. Or have I missed something?



I don't toggle. One button (the one labeled AF-on) IS single point AF (another, I think the tic-tac-toe one, will step you though the differing zones in case you want to switch away from single point to one of the other modes), and the other (*) IS Eye AF, and so long as I hold one or the other of them down the autofocus operates in that mode. Exposure lock happens by pushing the shutter button halfway, freeing up the (*) button. [On my M50 I assigned the tic-tac-toe looking button to be back button autofocus.]

I guess my thumb is the toggle. Which button it pushes dictates which mode the camera is in.


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## zim (Oct 23, 2020)

Can I ask, entirely out of curiosity as I don't have the camera, is it possible to have the shutter button assigned to spot af and meter and the af-on button assigned to say animal eye af. Such that while the shutter button is half pressed pressing the af-on button overrides spot and switches to animal eye af, releasing the back button returning to spot?


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## docsmith (Oct 24, 2020)

zim said:


> Can I ask, entirely out of curiosity as I don't have the camera, is it possible to have the shutter button assigned to spot af and meter and the af-on button assigned to say animal eye af. Such that while the shutter button is half pressed pressing the af-on button overrides spot and switches to animal eye af, releasing the back button returning to spot?


Yes


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## zim (Oct 24, 2020)

docsmith said:


> Yes


Cheers, my current camera doesn't maybe all newer cameras cater for my simple needs! one day I'm really going to treat myself, one day!


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## YuengLinger (Oct 24, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I don't toggle. One button (the one labeled AF-on) IS single point AF (another, I think the tic-tac-toe one, will step you though the differing zones in case you want to switch away from single point to one of the other modes), and the other (*) IS Eye AF, and so long as I hold one or the other of them down the autofocus operates in that mode. Exposure lock happens by pushing the shutter button halfway, freeing up the (*) button. [On my M50 I assigned the tic-tac-toe looking button to be back button autofocus.]
> 
> I guess my thumb is the toggle. Which button it pushes dictates which mode the camera is in.


Ok, I see, but I don't want to have to keep my thumb pressing down to have EyeAF active. I want that thumb free to make adjustments.


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## docsmith (Oct 24, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> It would be nice if one button could be assigned to toggle between Eye-AF and single point, rather than having to devote two buttons to the job. Or have I missed something?


Maybe I am mistaken about what you are trying to do, but you can designate one button to AF mode selection, and then turn off all the modes that you do not want, in this case, eye-AF and single point.
Michael Mavens video talked about this toward the end.


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## XL+ (Oct 24, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> We've gotten a lot of info from you, XL+. I hope you are resolving the issue! These questions and discussions help all involved learn more about their cameras, for sure.
> 
> I'm stuck home today waiting for my R6. Of course what I will try FIRST is AF!
> 
> ...


I hope this is an hardware issue, but I do not be sure. I have contacted CPS, but they see the problem in my lenses - all whites are non RF. I will have to send it to Canon repair center. But in the call, I did not have the feeling the technican sees it as an hardware failure. As the camera is brand new, they do not have much experience in such behaviors.
I am now fetching and "de-camouflaging" all my three big whites to get it fitted for the cases.
Some of the photographers think, this is not an issue. Just not correct using the equipment, or to much expectations on what this body is able to do. Yes, maybe. My other bodies do have some issues too (like 5D MK 4 with approaching birds, and the Sony 7R MK 4 with grain).

I hope ( hope dies last ) Canon is willed to improve such bugs by firmware updates. Not only getting improvements for the 8K recording time, but for these situations too.


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## AlanF (Oct 24, 2020)

docsmith said:


> Maybe I am mistaken about what you are trying to do, but you can designate one button to AF mode selection, and then turn off all the modes that you do not want, in this case, eye-AF and single point.
> Michael Mavens video talked about this toward the end.


I've missed something. I haven't been able to find a way to assign point AF to a button, and I can assign only eyeAF. So, the way of doing the switch is that described earlier of having the shutter button as doing point focus and assigning eyeAF to another button.


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## XL+ (Oct 24, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> Surely the included hard-copy quick start guide has enough information to explain how to take a shot of a bird sitting still. Just to get the camera up and running and ready for some fun to try it out?
> 
> The Advanced User Guide is available for free, and can be viewed on PC, tablet, or phone. It's massive! I've read some criticism of it here, but it's already a textbook at 919 pages. You do bring up a good point: If this is your first Canon camera, it's a whole lot of new material! But there is a cottage industry of youtubers, and hard-copy writers selling books on Amazon. And there are even people selling a printed version of the AUG.
> 
> ...


The redkite was shot 1/1600, Iso 640, f5.6
The unsharp redkite was 1/1600, Iso 100, f5.6
The kingfisher was 1/3200, iso 800, F 5.6

Canon could do a lot in familarization to these new bodies, to get satisfied customers.
The videos of Mr. Winston are very good. But could be expanded.
My whish would be something like Mr. Mark Galer from Sony. This is great, which tipps and hints he gives in his presentations and videos. THAT would be great. Also, I am missing some workshops by Canon Academy where they offer profound level courses on these topics to get the best out of their products.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 24, 2020)

XL+ said:


> I hope this is an hardware issue, but I do not be sure. I have contacted CPS, but they see the problem in my lenses - all whites are non RF. I will have to send it to Canon repair center. But in the call, I did not have the feeling the technican sees it as an hardware failure. As the camera is brand new, they do not have much experience in such behaviors.
> I am now fetching and "de-camouflaging" all my three big whites to get it fitted for the cases.
> Some of the photographers think, this is not an issue. Just not correct using the equipment, or to much expectations on what this body is able to do. Yes, maybe. My other bodies do have some issues too (like 5D MK 4 with approaching birds, and the Sony 7R MK 4 with grain).
> 
> I hope ( hope dies last ) Canon is willed to improve such bugs by firmware updates. Not only getting improvements for the 8K recording time, but for these situations too.


You clearly know too much about photography for this to be consistently your fault, and if it is happening consistently, my bet is the body has a problem.

I used my R6 this morning with little kids running around very fast. Seems to be perfectly focusing with Eye AF Tracking. My problem is definitely familiarity, as I barely used my R for action, so disappointing was it for more than modest and expected motion. But from just putting the AF square on a kid's face or head, the camera AF keeps right up with it--and whole series of running shots are right in focus when viewed in DPP.

Now I do know that on my R, sometimes my EF 3fmm f/1.4L II seemed to have some surprising trouble with motion, but my RF lenses never. Still, it didn't happen consistently with the R + 35mm, just now and then, as if the processor had gotten confused. And, again, I never went for very fast motion with it.

Are you having some percentage of perfect AF? Or is it unpredictable? Never working as expected? I would definitely not let forum or photographer friends make you doubt your abilities and what these cameras are capable of!


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## docsmith (Oct 25, 2020)

AlanF said:


> I've missed something. I haven't been able to find a way to assign point AF to a button, and I can assign only eyeAF. So, the way of doing the switch is that described earlier of having the shutter button as doing point focus and assigning eyeAF to another button.


When customizing buttons. Select “metering and AF Start” then press the Info button, which allows you to set “AF method” including single point AF.


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## AlanF (Oct 25, 2020)

docsmith said:


> When customizing buttons. Select “metering and AF Start” then press the Info button, which allows you to set “AF method” including single point AF.


Thanks so much! I hadn't figured out how to do it and so now problem solved. It's a pity Canon had to use a sub-menu to do this when they could have added more boxes to the higher menu. But, once you know, it is fine. Reading other forums for tips, it's clear that I was not alone in missing this and you are the first I had come across to know.


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## docsmith (Oct 25, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Thanks so much! I hadn't figured out how to do it and so now problem solved. It's a pity Canon had to use a sub-menu to do this when they could have added more boxes to the higher menu. But, once you know, it is fine. Reading other forums for tips, it's clear that I was not alone in missing this and you are the first I had come across to know.


Great. Glad it worked for you. I forget where I saw it, likely either Jan Wegener or Whistling wings photography on YouTube. Both have nice set up videos in the R5.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Oct 25, 2020)

Also, keep in mind that you can create custom menus with the actions that you regularly perform such as flash settings or AF settings in one place. The R5 is a complex machine and when you're on a shoot, I find it easier to go to the custom menus I've created for actions that I used to have to search for. For example, "Battery Info," is one of the custom actions I have because I can never remember where it's at.


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## btango05 (Oct 25, 2020)

docsmith said:


> Great. Glad it worked for you. I forget where I saw it, likely either Jan Wegener or Whistling wings photography on YouTube. Both have nice set up videos in the R5.


 Is this the video?


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## docsmith (Oct 26, 2020)

btango05 said:


> Is this the video?


Yes, that is the Whistling Wings video. The Jan Wegener video is here:





I just checked out each video and they do not set it up in the way I mentioned above. But, the Whistling Wings video may have just showed me something new, at 46 min, he talks about an AF switch option assigned to the DOF button. That is another interesting option that I'll play with.

Overall, there are a lot of options in customizing our buttons. I'll probably be adjusting and learning for awhile.


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## XL+ (Oct 26, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> You clearly know too much about photography for this to be consistently your fault, and if it is happening consistently, my bet is the body has a problem.
> 
> I used my R6 this morning with little kids running around very fast. Seems to be perfectly focusing with Eye AF Tracking. My problem is definitely familiarity, as I barely used my R for action, so disappointing was it for more than modest and expected motion. But from just putting the AF square on a kid's face or head, the camera AF keeps right up with it--and whole series of running shots are right in focus when viewed in DPP.
> 
> ...


The percentage of subjects in focus is about half of the shots , if the background is plain colured. If there is some "troubled background" like trees, grass, e.g., it drops to one quarter or less. This is just feeled, not counted.
Today, the service center wrote, they will check my R5 and the lenses. Canon recommends for good AF performance using Rf lenses - or with the long telephoto lenses Mark III versions. (600 III and 400 III).


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## YuengLinger (Oct 26, 2020)

XL+ said:


> The percentage of subjects in focus is about half of the shots , if the background is plain colured. If there is some "troubled background" like trees, grass, e.g., it drops to one quarter or less. This is just feeled, not counted.
> Today, the service center wrote, they will check my R5 and the lenses. Canon recommends for good AF performance using Rf lenses - or with the long telephoto lenses Mark III versions. (600 III and 400 III).


I hope it works out so you don't feel as if your older lenses aren't reliable. A lot of photographers with expensive, legacy glass would hold off moving to mirrorless. 

I wonder how the older lenses are working on the ef 1DXIII? What would it be specifically about the mirrorless AF system that doesn't work as well with the older glass? 

Have you tried using a slower burst rate just to see if the lens needs time to keep up with the R5's focus system? That's just a brainstorm idea.


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## XL+ (Oct 26, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> I hope it works out so you don't feel as if your older lenses aren't reliable. A lot of photographers with expensive, legacy glass would hold off moving to mirrorless.
> 
> I wonder how the older lenses are working on the ef 1DXIII? What would it be specifically about the mirrorless AF system that doesn't work as well with the older glass?
> 
> Have you tried using a slower burst rate just to see if the lens needs time to keep up with the R5's focus system? That's just a brainstorm idea.


Yes, I tried almost every setting. One thing, I could not change is the adapter (I use the one with the turnable ring). This will be checked by Canon


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2020)

The focusing works great with my EF 600mm iii on the R5 it is more accurate and faster then on the 5DMK IV check out this Goose coming in for a landing. i was using animal eye focus.


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## XL+ (Oct 26, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> The focusing works great with my EF 600mm iii on the R5 it is more accurate and faster then on the 5DMK IV check out this Goose coming in for a landing. i was using animal eye focus.
> View attachment 193628


Wonderful bird (in real also so golden?). You are using MK III. Mine is MK II. So, I am in fear, the Canon support could be right and MK II works not so well on the R5. But I am waiting for the RF version to get an genuine system.


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2020)

XL+ said:


> Wonderful bird (in real also so golden?). You are using MK III. Mine is MK II. So, I am in fear, the Canon support could be right and MK II works not so well on the R5. But I am waiting for the RF version to get an genuine system.


This was with the EF 600mm ser 3 and the adapter. I also have the 100-500 RF lens it is not as sharp as the 600 but it focuses faster


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## XL+ (Oct 26, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> This was with the EF 600mm ser 3 and the adapter. I also have the 100-500 RF lens it is not as sharp as the 600 but it focuses faster


Thanks. After I´ve got back my equipment, I´ll lean one to see, if my MK II version is the reason for my AF problem. If so, I would be very unhappy. Buying the MK III version - and knowing that in 2021 or 22 an again improved and GENIUNE RF version of this lens will appear on market - would make me rethink if this is´nt too much money for an hobby.
But I am in hope, Canon can improve the AF performance of my body/lens combo


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2020)

XL+ said:


> Thanks. After I´ve got back my equipment, I´ll lean one to see, if my MK II version is the reason for my AF problem. If so, I would be very unhappy. Buying the MK III version - and knowing that in 2021 or 22 an again improved and GENIUNE RF version of this lens will appear on market - would make me rethink if this is´nt too much money for an hobby.
> But I am in hope, Canon can improve the AF performance of my body/lens combo


Photography is my retirement hobby it gets me outdoors for some long walks and I meet some really nice people. The big glass gets a lot of comments and questions.


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## XL+ (Oct 26, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Photography is my retirement hobby it gets me outdoors for some long walks and I meet some really nice people. The big glass gets a lot of comments and questions.


Indeed . But my retirement ist still 20 years off and there are some familymembers that are not amused if their Daddy spends all his money for photographc equipment


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2020)

XL+ said:


> Indeed . But my retirement ist still 20 years off and there are some familymembers that are not amused if their Daddy spends all his money for photographc equipment


Better to spend money on photo equipment then going to the bars or many other things. Besides it is more fun, take your kids out for a walk with you just leave there phones at home they will learn some things without the internet. :}


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## XL+ (Oct 27, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Better to spend money on photo equipment then going to the bars or many other things. Besides it is more fun, take your kids out for a walk with you just leave there phones at home they will learn some things without the internet. :}


. Yess, Sir. It was hard work, but now, they do so often. All three are very active in their sports clubs. So, a big percentage of my wage goes in this in my opinion important spare time management and school fees.......


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## PunkRawkJay (Oct 30, 2020)

XL+ said:


> Wonderful bird (in real also so golden?). You are using MK III. Mine is MK II. So, I am in fear, the Canon support could be right and MK II works not so well on the R5. But I am waiting for the RF version to get an genuine system.



I took my ancient 500mm IS out with my R5 and even with a 2x and the focus worked well. Animal eye everything worked even w/ a TC.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 30, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Better to spend money on photo equipment then going to the bars or many other things. Besides it is more fun, take your kids out for a walk with you just leave there phones at home they will learn some things without the internet. :}



One day, after ten years of marriage, my wife brought up a blast from the past. (And by this time we had two kids.) 

"Can you believe," she said, "that you used to take me with you when you played poker, and I sat in the casino lounge to study organic chemistry? Can you believe we used to do that?"

Poker was such a cheap pastime compared to photography, but she never complains about new gear. But I fear for my life if I ever go near another cardroom!


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## Jenzzel (Nov 2, 2020)

XL+ said:


> Beautiful evening!
> 
> I need the help of experienced R5 users, please! My R5`s AF fails, when I want to shoot birds that are not format-filling. The AF always focusses on infinity and stays there, even if the selected AF field (spot AF, extended spot AF) is pointing sufficiently on the bird. The subject meets all needs on contrast and size to cover the whole AF-points. To solve this problem, I´ve to rearrange and point the AF field on much nearer object, then it focusses correctly in most cases.
> But this is not satisfacting. These days I lost a lot of shots, when an kingfisher fetched fishes mnultiple times out of the water.
> ...



Hi, i have the same problem, if the AF miss and hits the background or is set on something like 3 meters further away it won't focus on a bird closer to me, not with the eye AF and not with the "normal" AF, even its like 15 cm at 5 meter with 600 4.0, I never had this with any camera. In my opinion this camera is not useble for this type of photography , my camera is at Canon repair atm, if this is "normal" I'm gonna sell it, I'm realy disappointed.. Waited for months..

Eos R5
600mm 4.0 IS II or 300mm F2.8 (same issue) 
Newest firmware
Spot AF op af on button(tried all, and front button too) 
Animal af on star button
All af cases

Gr Jens


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## [email protected] (Nov 4, 2020)

Here is another shot of the R5 with my Canon 600mm iii on a Wood Duck coming at me. I was using animal eye focus.


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## AlanF (Nov 4, 2020)

Jenzzel said:


> Hi, i have the same problem, if the AF miss and hits the background or is set on something like 3 meters further away it won't focus on a bird closer to me, not with the eye AF and not with the "normal" AF, even its like 15 cm at 5 meter with 600 4.0, I never had this with any camera. In my opinion this camera is not useble for this type of photography , my camera is at Canon repair atm, if this is "normal" I'm gonna sell it, I'm realy disappointed.. Waited for months..
> 
> Eos R5
> 600mm 4.0 IS II or 300mm F2.8 (same issue)
> ...


I have Animal eyeAF on AF-ON button and Spot AF on * button and am not experiencing your problems to any extent that it makes the camera not usable, and I spend all my time taking these type of shots. Maybe your camera is faulty.


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## Jenzzel (Nov 5, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Here is another shot of the R5 with my Canon 600mm iii on a Wood Duck coming at me. I was using animal eye focus.
> View attachment 193830


This is not the problem, this are the easy ones. , i had Buzzard flew behind trees, AF stayed on for seconds, when I came back it glued on the eye and most of them where (almost) sharp. Bu when I use a hide, or blind and make a setup, with just a stick/perch, then we have a (big) problem. If the AF hits the background, it won't come of, even when the bird is like 20% of the screen, it stay just a blur, i can refocus, switch focus(normal/aeaf) it's just won't auto focus, I can prcocus on the ground(mf is not een option, my af ring is outside the hide/blind) I don't have the time to refocus, it's not a landscape of building. So unusable for this kind of photography in my eyes.. I really wished I never bought this camera, I just had too stay at the 1 serie... Maybe the 1R is going to be better...


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## Jenzzel (Nov 5, 2020)

AlanF said:


> I have Animal eyeAF on AF-ON button and Spot AF on * button and am not experiencing your problems to any extent that it makes the camera not usable, and I spend all my time taking these type of shots. Maybe your camera is faulty.


The camera was at the Canon Repair center, got it back yesterday, this was "normal " and they said it was a known problem and Canon have to fix this with a firmware update, only according to, Canon, they don't have a problem with the R5 autofocus..... Asked my retailer, he had already 3 complainers and canon just told hem, he was the only retailer.... I have it just when I photograph at this specific way.. Thanks for your answer..


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## AlanF (Nov 5, 2020)

Jenzzel said:


> The camera was at the Canon Repair center, got it back yesterday, this was "normal " and they said it was a known problem and Canon have to fix this with a firmware update, only according to, Canon, they don't have a problem with the R5 autofocus..... Asked my retailer, he had already 3 complainers and canon just told hem, he was the only retailer.... I have it just when I photograph at this specific way.. Thanks for your answer..


There is a problem with all the top mirrorless cameras, Sony, Nikon etc, in that they don't have close subject priority - that is, they don't automatically focus on what is closest and can get stuck on the background. DSLRs often do have close subject priority, and especially the Nikon series, and focus on what is closest. But, I am not finding this much of a problem with my R5. If the animal eyeAF doesn't lock on, then I press the * button programmed to use centre spot, and that has always worked for me. I also find the R5 picks up a flying birds easily against a background.


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## Jenzzel (Nov 5, 2020)

Yes, i just read it, it's a pitty you don't see that in any reviews, I had tried the 1dx mk3 and that was awesome, just no animal eye af, so without trying, I ordered the R5, sometimes it does an amazing job, especially flight shots, but i do 90-95% hide/blind work, and it isn't working that wel for me.. If I switch between one spot and animal eye AF and back it does noting if its already on the BG. I have to pre-focus on te ground or screen filling tree orso.

Thanks for your reply


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## [email protected] (Nov 5, 2020)

Jenzzel said:


> This is not the problem, this are the easy ones. , i had Buzzard flew behind trees, AF stayed on for seconds, when I came back it glued on the eye and most of them where (almost) sharp. Bu when I use a hide, or blind and make a setup, with just a stick/perch, then we have a (big) problem. If the AF hits the background, it won't come of, even when the bird is like 20% of the screen, it stay just a blur, i can refocus, switch focus(normal/aeaf) it's just won't auto focus, I can prcocus on the ground(mf is not een option, my af ring is outside the hide/blind) I don't have the time to refocus, it's not a landscape of building. So unusable for this kind of photography in my eyes.. I really wished I never bought this camera, I just had too stay at the 1 serie... Maybe the 1R is going to be better...


on stationary birds i use center spot focus then go to animal eye it normally locks on the bire then the eye. buttons set AF on as center spot, * as eye. if it does not lock on i switch from spot to eye. sometimes when there is lots of other high contrast or berries this takes a few times. The AF can be tricked and is not perfect but there is nothing else that comes close. you can use manual but most of the time the AF locks on faster then i can and is more accurate. I have just learned to work with the quarks of the system. There is nothing else out there that is better or faster.


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## SteveC (Nov 5, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> on stationary birds i use center spot focus then go to animal eye it normally locks on the bire then the eye. buttons set AF on as center spot, * as eye. if it does not lock on i switch from spot to eye. sometimes when there is lots of other high contrast or berries this takes a few times. The AF can be tricked and is not perfect but there is nothing else that comes close. you can use manual but most of the time the AF locks on faster then i can and is more accurate. I have just learned to work with the quarks of the system. There is nothing else out there that is better or faster.



OT I know, but I set up my R5 this way, and liked it enough that I then tried setting up my RP the same way (well, it doesn't do ANIMAL eye focus, but it does do people). Basically, the * doesn't do anything at all on the RP. On the R5 it will enable eye focus while held down; you effectively switch modes depending on which button you are pressing. But the RP just ignores the * press.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Nov 7, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> I hope it works out so you don't feel as if your older lenses aren't reliable. A lot of photographers with expensive, legacy glass would hold off moving to mirrorless.
> 
> I wonder how the older lenses are working on the ef 1DXIII? What would it be specifically about the mirrorless AF system that doesn't work as well with the older glass?
> 
> Have you tried using a slower burst rate just to see if the lens needs time to keep up with the R5's focus system? That's just a brainstorm idea.


Did you try watching Michael the Maven't YouTube video on Birds in Flight to see if it might help.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 7, 2020)

I very carefully rewatched the Whistling Wings video, and then saw this one too: 




It starts out briefly a bit rough, but then he explains better than anybody else the "Setting the initial Servo AF position" options. For me, setting to option *1* along with using AF Case optioin *2* modified to have Tracking Sensitivity down to *0*, and also setting "Switching tracked subjects" to *0 *results in the best lock and fastest tracking response I've seen yet. On any camera ever! Amazing! Like some secret military weapon tech!

Summary: When Eye AF is engaged, for fast action involving people, I have AF Case 2 modified so that tracking is zero, and, on the next page of options, "Switching tracked subjects" also set to zero. Works great for me!

But when subject is really running and stopping and jumping, dodging, etc., I go with the "Expand AF area" and do my best using touch and drag to keep the subject framed properly. Otherwise, more consistent, predictable fast movement seems to be handled fine by tracking.


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## XL+ (Nov 7, 2020)

As someone wrote before, my problem had not be solved.
The CPS repair center told me, they had a few bodies with the same claim. But Caonon actually neglects this complaint. For them everything is correct. They adjusted a few thing. But again, CPS recommends using MK III version of the 600mm lens. There the AF is improved and the electronics work better together.

Tried it today... same problem. I´ll do sommodification like the videos adviced. I will see, if this makes it better.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 7, 2020)

Another personal note about the AF Case options. I tried Case A (Auto) for a week, based on a wedding photographer's youtube video. (His name is Roberto Valenzuela.) I thought he knew enough about photographing people, but Case A (Auto) has been the least consistent, worst keeper rate for me. Not as good as the 5DIV, maybe a little better than the 5DIII. Just my own results.


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## Methodical (Nov 24, 2020)

docsmith said:


> I have reprogramed the "*" button to be a single point AF. Whenever I am having issues with AF, I switch to the "*" button, aim at target, and then I switch back to AF-On which is set to eye-AF. By getting the subject is good initial focus, the Eye-AF can then take over.



A lot of us R5 shooters have figured out the multiple AF button customization trick real quick. It's a different animal than the DSLRs.


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## Methodical (Nov 24, 2020)

XL+ said:


> The percentage of subjects in focus is about half of the shots , if the background is plain colured. If there is some "troubled background" like trees, grass, e.g., it drops to one quarter or less. This is just feeled, not counted.
> Today, the service center wrote, they will check my R5 and the lenses. Canon recommends for good AF performance using Rf lenses - or with the long telephoto lenses Mark III versions. (600 III and 400 III).



Ask Canon are they going to supply those lenses?


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 24, 2020)

Methodical said:


> A lot of us R5 shooters have figured out the multiple AF button customization trick real quick. It's a different animal than the DSLRs.


Its not entirely different to a dslr. I actually use double back button focus on my 7d2 with single point on the star button and zone on the AF-on button. Hoping the eye tracking on my r6 will improve things even further (when I get it)


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## AlanF (Nov 24, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> Its not entirely different to a dslr. I actually use double back button focus on my 7d2 with single point on the star button and zone on the AF-on button. Hoping the eye tracking on my r6 will improve things even further (when I get it)


If I remember correctly, Glenn Bartley in his review of the 90D complained that he couldn't do the double back button focus on it unlike with his 7DII. I would prefer the old fashioned mode dial you will be getting on the R6 as a I can switch modes in milliseconds using muscle memory, faster than I can on the more sophisticated R5 with its electronic system.


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## Methodical (Nov 24, 2020)

AlanF said:


> If I remember correctly, Glenn Bartley in his review of the 90D complained that he couldn't do the double back button focus on it unlike with his 7DII. I would prefer the old fashioned mode dial you will be getting on the R6 as a I can switch modes in milliseconds using muscle memory, faster than I can on the more sophisticated R5 with its electronic system.



I use the M-fn button to switch modes, but first I limit the modes C1-C3 and M, so I am not scrolling through stuff I don't use and it's right there near the shutter button.


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## Methodical (Nov 24, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> Its not entirely different to a dslr. I actually use double back button focus on my 7d2 with single point on the star button and zone on the AF-on button. Hoping the eye tracking on my r6 will improve things even further (when I get it)



True, but it's a must have settings with the mirrorless R5 camera because the AF gets fooled a lot easier or doesn't always do what you want it too in certain settings than with the DSLRs, at least in my experience and based on others comments around the internet, and you have to have these alternate custom AF settings on the ready to compensate and adjust on the fly. Take note of all those these are my custom AF button settings for when AF does this or does. I don't recall ever seeing those comments with DSLRs (i.e. making this a different animal). This could be because most of us are using EF lenses adapted to the R5, but there are no RF option for the 600, in my case. Unlike these mirrorless cameras, the multiple AF customs settings was not a must have option on the 7D2 or any of my other DSLRs (1DX, 1D4, 1D3, 5D3, 5D2 and 50D), it was an option.


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## AlanF (Nov 24, 2020)

Methodical said:


> I use the M-fn button to switch modes, but first I limit the modes C1-C3 and M, so I am not scrolling through stuff I don't use and it's right there near the shutter button.


That's a useful trick. The new mirrorless do have lots of customization possibilities. It actually makes them more difficult to use for the average person though for us photo geeks, more fun.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 24, 2020)

AlanF said:


> If I remember correctly, Glenn Bartley in his review of the 90D complained that he couldn't do the double back button focus on it unlike with his 7DII. I would prefer the old fashioned mode dial you will be getting on the R6 as a I can switch modes in milliseconds using muscle memory, faster than I can on the more sophisticated R5 with its electronic system.


Agreed. The extra dial on the R6 is one of the things that make it easier to accept the lack of megapickles. Having three dials on the body will also make it easier if I dont get the control ring adapter as i will still have a dedicated dial for exposure compensation when using auto-ISO


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## wyotex43n (Dec 27, 2020)

There is some really great info on this thread. I would like to step back a bit and make sure I understand something about the R5 autofocus and ask a few questions. 

I assume when you have it set to Tracking and animal eye detection that you are dependent on the camera finding the subject and autofocusing on it. Is there a way to help the camera acquire the subject focus earlier . Using my thumb on the back screen seems to be great for still subjects but not for something moving. Can you designate an specific area for it to start the hunt for a subject? 

Also is the joystick always turned off when tracking is turned on? Is there a way to use it to select the object you want to track?


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 27, 2020)

wyotex43n said:


> There is some really great info on this thread. I would like to step back a bit and make sure I understand something about the R5 autofocus and ask a few questions.
> 
> I assume when you have it set to Tracking and animal eye detection that you are dependent on the camera finding the subject and autofocusing on it. Is there a way to help the camera acquire the subject focus earlier . Using my thumb on the back screen seems to be great for still subjects but not for something moving. Can you designate an specific area for it to start the hunt for a subject?
> 
> Also is the joystick always turned off when tracking is turned on? Is there a way to use it to select the object you want to track?


Most of us seem to be using the dual Back button focus method. The AF-on button for eye AF with tracking and the star button as single point to aquire a subject the camera is having difficulty with after which you can switch buttons to the tracking if you need


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## Jenzzel (Dec 27, 2020)

wyotex43n said:


> There is some really great info on this thread. I would like to step back a bit and make sure I understand something about the R5 autofocus and ask a few questions.
> 
> I assume when you have it set to Tracking and animal eye detection that you are dependent on the camera finding the subject and autofocusing on it. Is there a way to help the camera acquire the subject focus earlier . Using my thumb on the back screen seems to be great for still subjects but not for something moving. Can you designate an specific area for it to start the hunt for a subject?
> 
> Also is the joystick always turned off when tracking is turned on? Is there a way to use it to select the object you want to track?


I don't know what kind photography you do, but my friend Jan Wegener has some great info videos 




Gr Jens


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## wyotex43n (Dec 28, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> Most of us seem to be using the dual Back button focus method. The AF-on button for eye AF with tracking and the star button as single point to aquire a subject the camera is having difficulty with after which you can switch buttons to the tracking if you need


I will give you a scenario. 
I was on a creek shooting birds. Some swans were far upstream to my right. I noticed them begin to take off in my direction. I wanted to lock focus on them quickly as they came my way. I had the camera set in animal eye af. The swans were against a reed background to begin with. The R5 did not lock focus until they were almost parallel with me. Maybe the background was to complex or they were to far off. I am looking for a way to quickly tell the camera here is where I want it to begin focus. Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 28, 2020)

wyotex43n said:


> I will give you a scenario.
> I was on a creek shooting birds. Some swans were far upstream to my right. I noticed them begin to take off in my direction. I wanted to lock focus on them quickly as they came my way. I had the camera set in animal eye af. The swans were against a reed background to begin with. The R5 did not lock focus until they were almost parallel with me. Maybe the background was to complex or they were to far off. I am looking for a way to quickly tell the camera here is where I want it to begin focus. Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?


Yes. There are two ways you can do it to improve things. One is by having the dual back button focus set up and the other is to go to the AF menu. Sub menu 5. And set the initial servo AF point for tracking to the centre and NOT on auto. It is not fool proof but it means the camera is only looking in the very centre of the frame for something to lock onto after which it will track it all around the frame. You just have to put the bird in the centre portion and then start the AF


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## Jenzzel (Dec 28, 2020)

wyotex43n said:


> I will give you a scenario.
> I was on a creek shooting birds. Some swans were far upstream to my right. I noticed them begin to take off in my direction. I wanted to lock focus on them quickly as they came my way. I had the camera set in animal eye af. The swans were against a reed background to begin with. The R5 did not lock focus until they were almost parallel with me. Maybe the background was to complex or they were to far off. I am looking for a way to quickly tell the camera here is where I want it to begin focus. Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?


Yes thats is the method I use, I have the AF-on set as single point and star button as animal eye AF. If ae-af is not needed I use the single point, and switch to ae-af if needed. 
I


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## docsmith (Dec 28, 2020)

wyotex43n said:


> Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?


Agreed with Jenzzel and Aussie. Set the initial servo point to something other than auto and have a second button program to something other than animal eye AF. 

In my experience, the Animal Eye AF is very very good, but not magical. First, it needs the subject (eye) to be large enough for it to truly distinguish. With COVID, I am mostly shooting small birds and I am finding with the R5 and 500 f/4 II that within 30 ft (~10 m) it is very consistent and accurate, out to about 50 ft (~15 m) it is very hit and miss and even when it "hits" in terms of the blue box on eye, but the actual accuracy is inconsistent. Beyond 50 ft/15 m. It really is not useful and I switch to a different AF mode.

Larger animals are likely a different story. But, based on my experience, I wonder if size of the target in the frame is part of the issue that people are having. Even within 30 ft, I do find that it occasionally grabs the background, but then I use the single point AF to get it back on target and once back on target the eye AF is very good once again.


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## wyotex43n (Dec 29, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> Yes. There are two ways you can do it to improve things. One is by having the dual back button focus set up and the other is to go to the AF menu. Sub menu 5. And set the initial servo AF point for tracking to the centre and NOT on auto. It is not fool proof but it means the camera is only looking in the very centre of the frame for something to lock onto after which it will track it all around the frame. You just have to put the bird in the centre portion and then start the AF


Thanks, I gave it a try yesterday but most of the birds I was shooting were to far for conclusive results. But I do think this will help.


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## wyotex43n (Dec 29, 2020)

docsmith said:


> Agreed with Jenzzel and Aussie. Set the initial servo point to something other than auto and have a second button program to something other than animal eye AF.
> 
> In my experience, the Animal Eye AF is very very good, but not magical. First, it needs the subject (eye) to be large enough for it to truly distinguish. With COVID, I am mostly shooting small birds and I am finding with the R5 and 500 f/4 II that within 30 ft (~10 m) it is very consistent and accurate, out to about 50 ft (~15 m) it is very hit and miss and even when it "hits" in terms of the blue box on eye, but the actual accuracy is inconsistent. Beyond 50 ft/15 m. It really is not useful and I switch to a different AF mode.
> 
> Larger animals are likely a different story. But, based on my experience, I wonder if size of the target in the frame is part of the issue that people are having. Even within 30 ft, I do find that it occasionally grabs the background, but then I use the single point AF to get it back on target and once back on target the eye AF is very good once again.


I agree with size of the subject in the frame. Also the contrast with any background.


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## AlanF (Dec 29, 2020)

Today, I was comparing photoing small birds on my feeder with the 400mm DO II with and without the 1.4xTC on the R5. At 560mm and f/5.6, the lens did have some problems being stuck on the background. But at f/4 and 400mm, there were no problems. I'll do some more tests tomorrow to check whether it was the aperture or field of view using the 100-500mm at 400 vs 500mm.


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 29, 2020)

wyotex43n said:


> Thanks, I gave it a try yesterday but most of the birds I was shooting were to far for conclusive results. But I do think this will help.


I hope it helps


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## YuengLinger (Dec 30, 2020)

Thanks to all who have posted from experience here! Today I finally got to go out alone--without the kids--to start learning how to use the R5 + 100-500mm, and, as the only birds were tiny ones (mostly prairie warblers) hopping on bare branches with lots of twigs, I immediately started running into the problem of needing to fine tune AF with the focus ring. Because of the posts here, I did NOT have to figure out why I didn't have full time MF while in Servo AF! That would have been frustrating while burning through my precious amount of time without distractions.

My solution, as I've never been able to get the hang of back-button-focus, was to just briefly switch from Servo to One-shot. But in fact, sometimes I was doing better with just One-shot because the birds were stationary long enough to fire off a few bursts.


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## AlanF (Dec 30, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> Thanks to all who have posted from experience here! Today I finally got to go out alone--without the kids--to start learning how to use the R5 + 100-500mm, and, as the only birds were tiny ones (mostly prairie warblers) hopping on bare branches with lots of twigs, I immediately started running into the problem of needing to fine tune AF with the focus ring. Because of the posts here, I did NOT have to figure out why I didn't have full time MF while in Servo AF! That would have been frustrating while burning through my precious amount of time without distractions.
> 
> My solution, as I've never been able to get the hang of back-button-focus, was to just briefly switch from Servo to One-shot. But in fact, sometimes I was doing better with just One-shot because the birds were stationary long enough to fire off a few bursts.


Practice BBF, it's a skill worth having. I have two back buttons set up, one does eyeAF the other centre point AF, and I find it very useful.


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## jdavis37 (Jan 8, 2021)

This thread has aged a bit, but today I experienced what i THINK the original poster was talking about. And, I saw it with both the 500F4 IS MkII lens and the 70-200 F4L IS Mk II lens.

I got an R5 for Christmas and have been shooting with a 1DX2 since 2016. The R5 was bought to replace the 5DMark III I have had as a backup/second body, with landscapes in mind as well as birds and other critters. My early impressions were the R5 might well replace my 1DX2 as my primary body. I took the time to set up the AF as others had suggested, using the dual back focus methods. Most of my shooting had been done indoors and I did not see any issues until today.

Focus at longer distances up to infinity. Camera focuses quickly. No issues.

Once focused to a significant distance and then aimed at a near object ( say 12 feet), the camera often will not attempt to focus. When I had the 500F4 mounted, I would have to manually focus the lens until I was close to being in focus. At that point, the camera's single AF point focus would work. But once the camera focused to something behind the target, it would just sit.

I connected my 1DX2 to the 500F4 and focus was instant.

This is somewhat concerning. I like the camera overall, but am finding this issue to be significant. as I approach infinity distance for focus there are no issues. Returning from infinity to say 13 to 15 feet, the camera often struggles, resulting in missed photos. Thx


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## XL+ (Jan 13, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Practice BBF, it's a skill worth having. *I have two back buttons set up, one does eyeAF the other centre point AF, and I find it very useful*.


Mr. Alan, please could you post your settings?
I am still having severe problems with the AF like posted on page one. No troubleshooting procedure or software update is on the way. Service companies do actually acctept no repair orders as of Covid-19-company-closure. I actually depend on tips, to solve the frustrating AF performance drop.
Thank you a lot.


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## AlanF (Jan 13, 2021)

XL+ said:


> Mr. Alan, please could you post your settings?
> I am still having severe problems with the AF like posted on page one. No troubleshooting procedure or software update is on the way. Service companies do actually acctept no repair orders as of Covid-19-company-closure. I actually depend on tips, to solve the frustrating AF performance drop.
> Thank you a lot.


The problem you have of the camera not focussing on a bird in front of a background but focussing on the background is real and affects all mirrorless cameras from Sony and the other makes as well. What you are doing of focussing on the ground in front and then on the bird is what I sometimes have to do. For much of the time, I can get it to work by switching between single point and all-points focussing. DSLRs do not have this problem as they are programmed to focus on the nearest object. Unfortunately, because of covid I haven't been able to shoot kingfishers etc. My R5 does find miraculously well small birds far away on the grass etc and often a small bird in a tree and focus on its head or eye. It also is brilliant at finding birds in flight. All in all, I get more keepers than I do with my DSLRs. But, I am retaining a Canon 5DSR and Nikon D850 if I find I can't photo kingfishers etc.


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## Grant Atkinson (Feb 3, 2021)

Hi XL+ and Alan , I am a bit late to this thread and I am using the R6, not the R5, but I am experiencing the same challenges you are with certain scenes and autofocus. I have only EF telephoto lenses. I used the Canon adaptor on them with the R6. To make it easier for other users to visualize, I can say that my adapted R6 will struggle or fail to take several seconds to focus on any small to medium-small subject if that subject is positioned in a tree with or without leaves, or on a rock, if there is a dark or vegetated background behind the subject. If I remain in the same position but lower myself and this causes the background to become sky, the camera will focus on that same subject. It is not an intermittent thing. I can make it happen anytime I recreate those parameters. It occurs with my EF 500 L f4 IS ii the most. It also occurs with my adapted EF 100-400 IS ii but not as strongly. It happens most at 400mm and doesn't happen at all at 100mm even if I move closer to the subject. So users who are using shorter focal lengths might not experience it at all. I can get it to focus by aiming at a bright part of the scene nearby or turning the focus ring manually until it comes into focus, and at that point I can switch to eye focus or just keep my single point on the eye, but it has already caused me to miss many shots because many small subjects don't pose for long. Using the R6 with adaptor and 1.4xiii and EF 500f4 L IS ii in a closed canopy forest was so frustrating that I gave up on it for that location. The 5DMk4 and even the 90D Single AF point in the centre where much more reliable and faster to lock onto a bird amongst the leaves. With birds in the sky, the R6 does very well better than my Canon dslr bodies, and the subject tracking is very good for birds in flight.

Seems if I use the R6 in open situations with not much vegetation or other background behind my subject, then this failure or very slow focus doesn't really happen. When I photograph large subjects it also doesnt happen. Seems it doesn't happen if people are your subjects either. It doesn't happen to me when using my RF 24-105f4 or my adapted EF 16-35 L f4 IS, only my longer focal length lenses.
Once I get to use an RF telephoto lens on my R6 I might then get an idea if it handles the scenes that challenge my EF IS ii lenses with adaptors any better. Alan F thanks for your feedback in this post too.
Cheers
Grant


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## AlanF (Feb 3, 2021)

Grant Atkinson said:


> Hi XL+ and Alan , I am a bit late to this thread and I am using the R6, not the R5, but I am experiencing the same challenges you are with certain scenes and autofocus. I have only EF telephoto lenses. I used the Canon adaptor on them with the R6. To make it easier for other users to visualize, I can say that my adapted R6 will struggle or fail to take several seconds to focus on any small to medium-small subject if that subject is positioned in a tree with or without leaves, or on a rock, if there is a dark or vegetated background behind the subject. If I remain in the same position but lower myself and this causes the background to become sky, the camera will focus on that same subject. It is not an intermittent thing. I can make it happen anytime I recreate those parameters. It occurs with my EF 500 L f4 IS ii the most. It also occurs with my adapted EF 100-400 IS ii but not as strongly. It happens most at 400mm and doesn't happen at all at 100mm even if I move closer to the subject. So users who are using shorter focal lengths might not experience it at all. I can get it to focus by aiming at a bright part of the scene nearby or turning the focus ring manually until it comes into focus, and at that point I can switch to eye focus or just keep my single point on the eye, but it has already caused me to miss many shots because many small subjects don't pose for long. Using the R6 with adaptor and 1.4xiii and EF 500f4 L IS ii in a closed canopy forest was so frustrating that I gave up on it for that location. The 5DMk4 and even the 90D Single AF point in the centre where much more reliable and faster to lock onto a bird amongst the leaves. With birds in the sky, the R6 does very well better than my Canon dslr bodies, and the subject tracking is very good for birds in flight.
> 
> Seems if I use the R6 in open situations with not much vegetation or other background behind my subject, then this failure or very slow focus doesn't really happen. When I photograph large subjects it also doesnt happen. Seems it doesn't happen if people are your subjects either. It doesn't happen to me when using my RF 24-105f4 or my adapted EF 16-35 L f4 IS, only my longer focal length lenses.
> Once I get to use an RF telephoto lens on my R6 I might then get an idea if it handles the scenes that challenge my EF IS ii lenses with adaptors any better. Alan F thanks for your feedback in this post too.
> ...


Good to see you back Grant
In actuality, I am not finding it much of a problem with the R5 and the two lenses I use the most, the adapted 400mm DO II and the 100-500mm, including with extenders.


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## shire_guy (Feb 5, 2021)

Grant Atkinson said:


> Using the R6 with adaptor and 1.4xiii and EF 500f4 L IS ii in a closed canopy forest was so frustrating that I gave up on it for that location. The 5DMk4 and even the 90D Single AF point in the centre where much more reliable and faster to lock onto a bird amongst the leaves. With birds in the sky, the R6 does very well better than my Canon dslr bodies, and the subject tracking is very good for birds in flight.
> 
> Seems if I use the R6 in open situations with not much vegetation or other background behind my subject, then this failure or very slow focus doesn't really happen.



Grant's post really rang a bell for me. Earlier this week I experienced focus issues pretty much described in his post. I was using a R5 with an adapted EF 300mm 2.8 II with 2 x TC in a dark area, with an enclosed canopy and leaf litter, chasing a small bird. I found I could not focus at all quite a few times while a friend with a Nikon ZII with an adapted 500mm f5.6 Nikon lens was getting shots. At one stage the AF just seemed to go into a slow loop. I ended up removing the TC and I thought the AF was a little better. In the same environment my 5D4 would get focus albeit with some manual assistance. In lighter areas, even slightly backlit, or out in the open the AF on the R5 is amazing so I found the above very puzzling.


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## Deleted member 389378 (Feb 7, 2021)

I've had the same problem with the r5. Simply put, when I point the camera directly at a motionless small bird with a busy--but distant--background (e.g., leaves) using a single focus point, the r5 often focuses on the background instead of the bird. I have considerable experience photographing birds, mostly with a 500mm lens and a 1.4X teleconverter. I have tried every possible setting/configuration on the r5 and the problem still occurs when the bird is small relative to the background. This occurs sufficiently often under conditions where the 7d2 has NO problem focusing on the bird, that the r5 is not usable for small birds unless the background is featureless (e.g., sky). The r5 is great for bigger birds--especially those in flight, for which it truly excels.

Today I did a very simple test with a tree limb that diminishes in diameter but has other limbs and leaves behind it. With the 7d I can move progressively down the limb focusing over and over as the limb gets smaller and smaller, and the 7d2 never loses focus. In contrast, the limb becomes too small for the r5 and the r5 jumps to focusing on the background--even though the single focus point is still centered on the limb. 

Here are the specific r5 settings I have found that work best for small birds, but still fail:

AF operation: SERVO AF
AF method: AF[o]
Subject to detect: Animals
Eye detection: Disable (I assigned this to the "AF-on" button and press when appropriate)
Tracking sensitivity: -2
Accel/decel: -2
Initial Servo AF pt for (face, box): [o]

Sad that I spent so much $ on a camera that does not work for my main application.


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## SteveC (Feb 7, 2021)

bhacker said:


> I've had the same problem with the r5. Simply put, when I point the camera directly at a motionless small bird with a busy--but distant--background (e.g., leaves) using a single focus point, the r5 often focuses on the background instead of the bird. I have considerable experience photographing birds, mostly with a 500mm lens and a 1.4X teleconverter. I have tried every possible setting/configuration on the r5 and the problem still occurs when the bird is small relative to the background. This occurs sufficiently often under conditions where the 7d2 has NO problem focusing on the bird, that the r5 is not usable for small birds unless the background is featureless (e.g., sky). The r5 is great for bigger birds--especially those in flight, for which it truly excels.
> 
> Today I did a very simple test with a tree limb that diminishes in diameter but has other limbs and leaves behind it. With the 7d I can move progressively down the limb focusing over and over as the limb gets smaller and smaller, and the 7d2 never loses focus. In contrast, the limb becomes too small for the r5 and the r5 jumps to focusing on the background--even though the single focus point is still centered on the limb.
> 
> ...



The good news is, that should be firmware fixable.

The bad news is, you gotta convince Canon it's broken.


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## BadBird (Feb 7, 2021)

I have to concur with bhacker's comparison of the R5 to the 7D2 for small birds in trees or shrubbery. The 7D2 with 100-400 II + 1.4 TC remains the most effective system I have found for snagging shots of warblers (or parts of a warbler) high in trees, especially after the leaves come out. I was never able to get any of the 5D4s I had to do the same - they would focus on the bird in the viewfinder, but then take a picture of the leaves behind the bird instead (and yes, I had fought through hours of AF microadjustment with the 5D4s - the main reason I decided to switch to mirrorless). 

Clearly the AF software in the R5 is directly descended from that of the 5D4, with similar shortcomings. I am using the R5 almost exclusively with either the RF 100-500 or the RF 800 f/11. The best settings for the R5 that I have found so far (and far from perfect) are:

AF operation: Servo AF
AF method: Spot AF
Subject to detect: Animals
Eye detection: Disable
Case: 1
Tracking sensitivity: -1
Accel/decel: -1
Initial Servo AF pt for (face, box): Spot AF
AF-ON button: Metering and AF Start (I can finally use back button focus since they moved the AF-ON button to the left; it sits above a nasty hump on the 7D/5D, that was moved to the right on the R5 body). On the R5, that hump actually helps you find the AE Lock button by touch. Arthritic thumb joints are the worst!

Face + Tracking is ONLY active when I press the AE Lock <*> button, programmed to Eye Detection AF
...and I only select this when I have bird in focus with Spot AF, and it is on a bird feeder or the ground or on a stationary perch (and NOT a dark eyed Junco)
...OR a flying bird suddenly presents itself (think Marsh Hawk), because Face + Tracking Eye Detection AF is terrific unless there is a cluttered background

AF Point selection is used to quickly switch from Servo AF to One-Shot AF (and back) to enable manual focusing with Focus Guide, Peaking, and Magnification

If someone has found a setting or combination of settings that work better for bird photography, PLEASE contribute them to the discussion. I for one am still missing too many shots with the R5, compared to the 7D2, except for birds in flight. Picture quality (when focused) is dramatically better from the R5, which reliably gets usable shots at ISO 12800 in the shadows of trees.

I have to add that reading this forum, even before my R5 was delivered to me, has been extremely helpful. Thank you to all of the participants!


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## Grant Atkinson (Feb 8, 2021)

Further to the posts here by Badbird, Bhacker and some others above, and relating to my own use of long focal length EF (in my case IS ii models- the EF 500L f4 IS ii with and without EF 1.4xiii extender and EF 100-400 IS ii ) with the Canon adaptor and the challenges I am having when trying to get focus of a bird or similar subject against a background, I added some screenshots for illustration.







Anytime I used the R6 with adaptor on my long lens to try take pictures of sunbirds on flowering aloe plants, I would struggle with getting focus on the bird. I even tried to then aim the focus point or points, at the aloe flower just to get ballpark focus happening but the camera in my hands failed or else took several seconds to get focused on the flower. I tried with all the focus point options, including Spot. I tried turning the camera vertically but it did not make a difference. The bottom image above shows where I managed to get focus on the flower ends using a cluster of AF points, but even this took what felt like a second or two. I posted the images above just to illustrate that in my hands, I am finding it difficult to get focus on these subjects in what I consider very usable light, and with the kind of backgrounds that I like. So it is very puzzling. It is the first time that I have owned a Canon camera that could do some things very well, like photographing birds in the sky and yet, in my hands, is flawed for taking pictures like this. I struggled equally with bright birds or dark ones. For camera settings I made sure that "Lens Drive When AF Impossible" was switched ON in AF menu AF4. I also tried switching to One shot instead of Servo but found no improvement. I do wonder if it is something that might be improved by firmware or perhaps it is just what happens when using IS ii super telephotos with an adaptor.

I also referred to the user guide (for the R6) and found this information regarding AF



Seems the difficulties I am having might be listed fourth from the end of the list: "Performing AF when the subject is very far out of focus."
I also checked the Canon owners manuals for the 5D Mk4 and 7D Mk 2, and in their lists of possible AF problems, they do not have this one about a 'very far out of focus subject.' So it is new in the R5/R6 manual.
Maybe Canon already do know about it?
On a personal level, it does make me a bit less excited about using my R6, especially as I frequently take wildlife pictures of subjects on the ground, in the sky and amongst vegetation, on the same outing. In so many other ways I do really like the camera and what it can do.
Sorry I was not able to come up with any helpful information for other users in this thread who have the difficulty.
Cheers
Grant


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## BadBird (Feb 11, 2021)

Today my R5 was firing while supposedly locked on small birds (busy birds - Kinglet and Pine Warbler), but the bird was actually out of focus underneath the locked focus point (as indicated by Lightroom plugin) while the background was in focus. This is the typical problem I am seeing with the R5 and 100-500 using spot AF primary and animal eye AF only intermittently. In the first example, the camera thinks it was locked on the Kinglet, but all three shots taken were out of focus.


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## BadBird (Feb 11, 2021)

The next two show the initial spot AF locked but out of focus versus background, and four shots later the bird is finally in focus under the locked focal point. The exposure and AF point position changed slightly from the first three shots to the fourth, so there is a good chance I tripped the shutter a second time. I was using back button spot AF. So you can lock the AF point on the bird and fire away, but it hasn't always achieved a correct focus on that point.


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## knoxone (Feb 17, 2021)

I'm having issues as well. I am using the R5 with the 600 f4 vII. It can be great at times, but it often seems to be lagging in focus. Subjects, birds flying towards me always seem to be out of focus, usually focusing a bit behind the subject. The focus system seems to want to jump off the subject and latch onto something else. I have had the focus hunting issue as well. The camera seems awesome at times but supper frustrating at others!!! I will post examples once i get to my computer this evening.


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## SteveC (Feb 17, 2021)

knoxone said:


> I'm having issues as well. I am using the R5 with the 600 f4 vII. It can be great at times, but it often seems to be lagging in focus. Subjects, birds flying towards me always seem to be out of focus, usually focusing a bit behind the subject. The focus system seems to want to jump off the subject and latch onto something else. I have had the focus hunting issue as well. The camera seems awesome at times but supper frustrating at others!!! I will post examples once i get to my computer this evening.



Come to think of it, I was having trouble, with animal eye focus set, taking a picture of a kitten resting on someone's shoulder. I wanted both the face and the kitten, with focus on the kitten. It kept focusing on the person. I finally just had to go to point AF mode.

Not an option with birds in flight, I know, but it does indicate to me something's not quite "there" yet with the animal eye focus.


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## Jonathan Thill (Feb 17, 2021)

BadBird said:


> The next two show the initial spot AF locked but out of focus versus background, and four shots later the bird is finally in focus under the locked focal point. The exposure and AF point position changed slightly from the first three shots to the fourth, so there is a good chance I tripped the shutter a second time. I was using back button spot AF. So you can lock the AF point on the bird and fire away, but it hasn't always achieved a correct focus on that point.
> View attachment 195745
> View attachment 195746


I was not aware that the Lightroom plugin for focus points was supported on the R5(or any R Camera), I have not seen any updates since ver 1.03 and that was released in Dec 2019

Works well with the R5?


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## YuengLinger (Feb 18, 2021)

Sometimes it seems the spot AF square is bigger than it appears through the EVF. Or maybe it doesn't accurately represent exact placement of the active AF points--as if it is slightly off.


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## knoxone (Feb 18, 2021)

So it was somewhat focused on the ruddy duck then as soon as the ruddy duck starts moving it doesn't keep up. I have tons of shots of birds in flight where it doesn't seem to be able to keep up. Anyone else seeing this? These were shot with the R5 and the 600 f4 v2 at f4 1/1600 ISO2500


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## koenkooi (Feb 19, 2021)

Ramage said:


> I was not aware that the Lightroom plugin for focus points was supported on the R5(or any R Camera), I have not seen any updates since ver 1.03 and that was released in Dec 2019
> 
> Works well with the R5?



Canon cameras put the size and coordinates of the rectangles in the EXIF, so the plugin has no need to get updated for each new camera. Having said that, I like DPP4 better for showing focus points, it's one of the few things that it's faster at, compared to Lightroom.


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## JPAZ (Feb 19, 2021)

Ramage said:


> I was not aware that the Lightroom plugin for focus points was supported on the R5(or any R Camera), I have not seen any updates since ver 1.03 and that was released in Dec 2019
> 
> Works well with the R5?


It does work except for the occasional image where the plugin says it cannot analyze the photo. I use with both the RP and R5.


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## AlanF (Feb 19, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> Canon cameras put the size and coordinates of the rectangles in the EXIF, so the plugin has no need to get updated for each new camera. Having said that, I like DPP4 better for showing focus points, it's one of the few things that it's faster at, compared to Lightroom.


It's the only thing I use DPP4 for.


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## Jonathan Thill (Feb 19, 2021)

JPAZ said:


> It does work except for the occasional image where the plugin says it cannot analyze the photo. I use with both the RP and R5.


Nice thanks I looked at the supported Cameras and was like oh well I guess DPP4 gets to live for another day on my system  Now its days are numbered.


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## Peterdarcy (Feb 20, 2021)

BadBird said:


> The next two show the initial spot AF locked but out of focus versus background, and four shots later the bird is finally in focus under the locked focal point. The exposure and AF point position changed slightly from the first three shots to the fourth, so there is a good chance I tripped the shutter a second time. I was using back button spot AF. So you can lock the AF point on the bird and fire away, but it hasn't always achieved a correct focus on that point.
> View attachment 195745
> View attachment 195746


I am very late to this, however your R5 pics are similar to mine. I also have a 5D 4 and 3, also used to have 1Dx. Never ever had this issue. Set up on BB focus one button for spot and one foe eye tracking animal. There is a similar post on Canon USA forums particularly around the 100 to 400 II , Which I was using with adaptor and 1.4. Link here https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/loss-of-sharpness-100-400-using-R5-and-adapter/td-p/323253 Never had this with the other 3 cameras 2 of which I still have. I have not tested my 500mF4 IS original version. New youtube out about 10 days ago. Link here https://edit.photography/canon-r5-sensor-misalignment-issue-confirmed-no-sharp-images-with-any-lens/

For me this not a user error, or getting use to a Mirrorless camera. I have no issues grabbing focus on small birds, but on a burst of 10 , 9 are soft. I tested my friends 100 -500 RF, and it went away. Sadly it was return the camera or invest more money to support my habit. So now i have the new RF lens of mine and going to test in the field today.




BadBird said:


> Today my R5 was firing while supposedly locked on small birds (busy birds - Kinglet and Pine Warbler), but the bird was actually out of focus underneath the locked focus point (as indicated by Lightroom plugin) while the background was in focus. This is the typical problem I am seeing with the R5 and 100-500 using spot AF primary and animal eye AF only intermittently. In the first example, the camera thinks it was locked on the Kinglet, but all three shots taken were out of focus.
> View attachment 195744


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## Jonathan Thill (Feb 20, 2021)

@Peterdarcy Not buying the misaligned sensor BS. 

Unlike the DSLR's you listed the EOS R, RP, R6 and R5 does not have a separate focus sensor, the focusing is done on the photo sensor so if the sensor was misaligned the user can still expect the spot that was reported in focus will be. There maybe additional issues with the senor but the alignment of the sensor would not affect the ability of a functional senor from obtaining focus at the point selected.


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## Peterdarcy (Feb 20, 2021)

BadBird said:


> The next two show the initial spot AF locked but out of focus versus background, and four shots later the bird is finally in focus under the locked focal point. The exposure and AF point position changed slightly from the first three shots to the fourth, so there is a good chance I tripped the shutter a second time. I was using back button spot AF. So you can lock the AF point on the bird and fire away, but it hasn't always achieved a correct focus on that point.
> View attachment 195745
> View attachment 195746





Ramage said:


> @Peterdarcy Not buying the misaligned sensor BS.
> 
> Unlike the DSLR's you listed the EOS R, RP, R6 and R5 does not have a separate focus sensor, the focusing is done on the photo sensor so if the sensor was misaligned the user can still expect the spot that was reported in focus will be. There maybe additional issues with the senor but the alignment of the sensor would not affect the ability of a functional senor from obtaining focus at the point selected.


Noted, and appreciate some clarity.


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## rico.29 (Feb 28, 2021)

Jenzzel said:


> Hi, i have the same problem, if the AF miss and hits the background or is set on something like 3 meters further away it won't focus on a bird closer to me, not with the eye AF and not with the "normal" AF, even its like 15 cm at 5 meter with 600 4.0, I never had this with any camera. In my opinion this camera is not useble for this type of photography , my camera is at Canon repair atm, if this is "normal" I'm gonna sell it, I'm realy disappointed.. Waited for months..
> 
> Eos R5
> 600mm 4.0 IS II or 300mm F2.8 (same issue)
> ...


did you get your camera back and fixed? i just get my R5 and have same issue, it just won't focus on "obvious" subjects, still or not, servo or one shot, no matter the settings, 80% of shot miss, with 500mm IS v1 and 100-500mm RF... by the same time my A7R3 with 500mm IS v1 (canon lens, yes!!!) and 200-600mm G nailed it. Or my camera has a problem, or R5 is not the camera to use for such photo, i wonder if it's possible according all the videos on youtube saying R5 is "the best camera ever"...


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## BadBird (Mar 1, 2021)

Replying to MrPid in another, now locked thread, related to this one.

I have seen this sort of focusing on the background with regularity shooting small birds in trees, on feeders, and on the ground with the RF 100-500. It gets worse if I use the 100-400/1.4 lens off my 7DMk2, or a third-party zoom. My impression from comments seen here about Canon Support interactions is that only the newest level iii Canon EF lenses work well with the R5 AF.

I get the best results with back focus defaulting to Spot AF, and only triggering Eye Detection AF from * button when getting good focus lock with spot. When Eye Detection AF jitters a cloud of focal points all around the bird, forget it - it will almost invariably focus behind it - so I go back to Spot. I use Servo by default, but if the bird is lazy and the background busy enough to give Spot AF issues, I can switch quickly to One Shot so that I can use all of the manual focusing tools - which work great when you need them. Of course, manual focus is still iffy when hand-held compared to tripod mounted.

Also, if you inspect the focus point or points in DPP or with the Lightroom Show Focus Points plugin (yes, v1.03 on Mac matches DPP in focus point display), and some of them are off the subject (or even if part of the single spot AF square is off the subject - small bird at 500mm) then the actual focus will usually be behind the subject. Shooting high speed continuous from a tripod, the sharpness of the focus will actually change between shots - I usually get one really sharp shot out of 3 or 4 in a row. Of course, the birds are moving, even if only slightly, but even in Servo the camera doesn't hold a sharp focus very well. I shoot mainly for documentation, but that one really sharp shot I get out of a string is dramatically better than I can get with the 7DMk2/100-400/1.4. I actually had WORSE results with several 5DMk4s with Tamron or Sigma zoom-600s, even after much AF micro-adjustment. Here's hoping the next firmware release helps, but I am not holding my breath.

Out of curiosity, are R6 users (especially with RF 100-500 or RF 800) seeing better AF performance than R5 users are?


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## mkamelg (Mar 17, 2021)

This post only represents my point of view, which I will not ask anyone to agree with. I hope it will not be treated as some kind of heresy.

This thread could easily be renamed to „Problems with AF on birds in cameras from the R family”.

I just sold my little used EOS 5DS R. I used the money from the sale to subsidize the purchase of the RF 70-200mm F4L IS USM lens and attach it to my EOS R.

From the minimum focusing distance (MFD) up to 5 meters it works as it should, but when it comes to distance equal to or greater than 5 meters especially when the smaller AF point frame size (Spot AF in EOS R5/R6 models) protrudes with its edges beyond the target that's another story.

Camera: EOS R with firmware in version 1.8.0

Lens: RF 70-200mm F4L IS USM with firmware in version 1.0.8

Accessories: Hoya Fusion Antistatic Protector circular filter installed. 

Conditions: When taking pictures outside, strong gusts of wind with a speed of 23 km/h blowing to the side of the lens. I did not have a lens hood fitted.

Camera settings: RAW, Fv, Av, Tv, ONE SHOT, Silent shutter, 1-point AF EOS R (normal AF point frame size), 1-point AF EOS R (smaller AF point frame size)

Lens settings: FULL, AF, STABILIZER ON, STABILIZER MODE 1

In all comparison photos on the left there is a photo taken when selecting normal AF point frame size, and on the right there is a photo taken when selecting smaller AF point frame size.

The dimensions of this rectangle with a checkerboard with the inscription „SpyderLENSCAL” (excluding the ruler and these two feet from the base) are 11.7cm high and 10cm wide. According to https://www.whatbird.com/browse/attribute/birds_na_147/51/Size/ very small birds have a size in the range 3-5in (8-13cm).

All photos are handheld with the lens stabilization turned on.

Click on a single screenshot and it will open in a new browser tab, click on it again in a new browser tab and it will enlarge.

70mm at MFD




200mm at MFD




70mm at 2.5m on the distance scale




200mm at 2.5m on the distance scale




70mm at 5m on the distance scale




200mm at 5m on the distance scale




70mm at infinity (closer to the left end of the infinity symbol) on the distance scale; the test board was in close proximity to the tree




200mm at infinity (closer to the left end of the infinity symbol) on the distance scale; the test board was in close proximity to the tree




70mm at infinity (closer to the left end of the infinity symbol) on the distance scale; here I moved the test board away from the tree




200mm at infinity (closer to the left end of the infinity symbol) on the distance scale; here I moved the test board away from the tree




Two days ago I managed to get a few sparrows in front of the lens at a focal length of 200 mm. I had the smaller AF point frame size selected. The photo on the left was taken from a distance 2.5 m (this value showed up on the distance scale), the photo on the right was taken from a distance 5 m (this value showed up on the distance scale). In the first case, the AF system broke through the fence mesh, branches and landed on the sparrow. In the second case, the AF system landed on the sparrow's tail (at least i think so).





Do I have any ideas to solve this problem (Is this a problem at all or am I creating one myself)?

1. See advice from AlanF https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/problems-with-af-on-birds-r5.39490/page-5#post-878983

2. After focusing with AF, turn on the instant image magnification (one finger swipe on the EOS R touch bar) and apply the correction manually using the MF ring. This is probably a bad idea when it comes to photographing very lively birds or anything else that moves very lively.

3. Wait for the camera firmware update as it was in the case of EOS R cooperation with lenses RF 70-200mm F2.8L IS USM and RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1L IS USM.

4. Buy yourself an EOS R5 or EOS R6 because of Animal Eye AF?


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## Deleted member 389378 (Mar 23, 2021)

In my experience with the r5 + EF 500mm, the Animal Eye AF does not solve the problem outlined in this thread and documented clearly in the post above by mkalemg. If the conditions are "right" (i.e., the camera focus "sees" the background instead of the bird), regardless of whether you are using single-spot AF or animal eye AF, the camera will focus on the background--like it or not. The only solution is to focus on the tree--or whatever else is near the bird and recompose. Distances between camera and subject and background, size of bird, and characteristics of the background dictate whether the r5 misbehaves. Waiting for a firmware update to render the r5 as reliable for bird photography as the 7d2.


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## Dockland (Apr 13, 2021)

bhacker said:


> In my experience with the r5 + EF 500mm, the Animal Eye AF does not solve the problem outlined in this thread and documented clearly in the post above by mkalemg. If the conditions are "right" (i.e., the camera focus "sees" the background instead of the bird), regardless of whether you are using single-spot AF or animal eye AF, the camera will focus on the background--like it or not. The only solution is to focus on the tree--or whatever else is near the bird and recompose. Distances between camera and subject and background, size of bird, and characteristics of the background dictate whether the r5 misbehaves. Waiting for a firmware update to render the r5 as reliable for bird photography as the 7d2.



I was trying out following some birds in flight this last weekend and I*m not a "bird shooter" but I think it worked decently. The AF followed my subject as long as it was in the frame. 

Example with RF 100-500 and R5 (nothing fancy about this shot, I know, but just trying the following AF out a bit. 
Subject distance approx. ~70m/~230ft @500mm


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## Deleted member 389378 (Apr 13, 2021)

Dockland said:


> I was trying out following some birds in flight this last weekend and I*m not a "bird shooter" but I think it worked decently. The AF followed my subject as long as it was in the frame.
> 
> Example with RF 100-500 and R5 (nothing fancy about this shot, I know, but just trying the following AF out a bit.
> Subject distance approx. ~70m/~230ft @500mm


As documented above in this thread, the focus failings are for *small, (nearly) stationary birds against a busy background*; in my case for an EF 500 mm. Yes, the r5 is *extremely *good at birds in flight.


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## Dockland (Apr 13, 2021)

bhacker said:


> As documented above in this thread, the focus failings are for *small, (nearly) stationary birds against a busy background*; in my case for an EF 500 mm. Yes, the r5 is *extremely *good at birds in flight.



Ah, might be the same issue on the R6?


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## Deleted member 389378 (May 7, 2021)

The above Dockland video is an excellent documentation of the problem of r5/r6 inability to focus on small subjects against a busy background. The solutions given in the video to the problem work with a "bird on a stick" in front of distant background, but are not workable in a more-challenging (and typical) situation where the bird is moving around in a tree with leaves. The r5/r6 is simply not capable of focusing reliably in such circumstances. Recently when I was photographing migrating warblers, the bird would sometimes be briefly visible in the part of the tree closest to me. With a 7d2 this is cause for joy/relief because this is the best possible situation: a close bird in front of the foliage. With the r5, by contrast, this turns to disappointment because the camera focuses on the foliage and not on the bird. The only solution I have found in these (again typical) situations is to abandon the r5 and use the 7d2.


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## AlanF (May 7, 2021)

The same is reported to occur even with the the Sony A1 https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1699402 
It is indeed true that DSLRs are programmed to focus on the nearest object whereas mirrorless can get stuck on backgrounds, and there are many complaints about it. So, in these situations, use a DSLR if it troubles you. I have what is probably the best medium weight DSLR gear for AF - Nikon D850 and D500 with the 500mm PF - but I'll take out my R5/100-500mm on just about every occasion because overall I'll get more keepers. I don't have many problems using the R5 to shoot small birds against busy backgrounds, and that is what I do most.


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