# New Canon Cine Zoom Lens?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 30, 2014)

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<p>Below is an image showing the new Canon cinema lens with servo that will be announced shortly. It’s the lens in the front with the red ring and will cost 5 figures, so it’s definitely aimed at the professional market.</p>
<p>NAB in Las Vegas starts April 5, 2014 and runs until April 10, 2014.</p>
<p>We’re currently not expecting any new announcements for Cinema EOS bodies, beyond the possibility of a development announcement.</p>
<p>More to come….</p>
<div id="attachment_16204" style="width: 585px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cinezoom1.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-16204 " alt="Click for Larger" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cinezoom1-575x431.jpg" width="575" height="431" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Click for Larger</p></div>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## Don Haines (Mar 30, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><glusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/03/new-canon-cine-zoom-lens/"></glusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/03/new-canon-cine-zoom-lens/">Tweet</a></div>
> <p>Below is an image showing the new Canon cinema lens with servo that will be announced shortly. It’s the lens in the front with the red ring.</p>
> <p>NAB in Las Vegas starts April 5, 2014 and runs until April 10, 2014.</p>
> <p>We’re currently not expecting any new announcements for Cinema EOS bodies, beyond the possibility of a development announcement.</p>
> ...


At last! A lens which will not roll off of the table!


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## scottkinfw (Mar 30, 2014)

I admit it, I'm a buzzkill.

meh.



Don Haines said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > <div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><glusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/03/new-canon-cine-zoom-lens/"></glusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/03/new-canon-cine-zoom-lens/">Tweet</a></div>
> ...


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## Etienne (Mar 30, 2014)

I hope they release something for non-billionaires


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## vscd (Mar 30, 2014)

Is the *optical* quality of a Canon CN-E50mm T1.3 L F better than the IQ of a 50mm 1.2L? If yes, it would be interesting to get compared to the Zeiss Otus 55 f1.4...

(http://www.canon.de/For_Home/Product_Finder/Digital_Cinema/Cine_Lenses/CN-E50mm_T1.3_L_F/index.aspx)


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## RunAndGun (Mar 30, 2014)

Etienne said:


> I hope they release something for non-billionaires



These aren't consumer products intended for consumers(or even rich enthusiasts).


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## ajfotofilmagem (Mar 30, 2014)

Seems to me a false picture. Cine lens does not have a lens hood itself, since it is assumed that it will use a matte box. If it was really a lens hood for a specific Cine lens, the format would be a longer rectangle to match the format of the Super-35mm sensor.


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## RunAndGun (Mar 30, 2014)

That pic may very well be a fake, it's obviously a picture of someone's screen. But there is a 'Cabrio' type servo cine lens coming to NAB.


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## transpo1 (Mar 30, 2014)

This makes sense if Canon is trying to enhance the usability of the C100-300-500 as documentary-style ENG cameras to compete with the new Arri Amira. 

For the price of an Amira ($40,000 starting price), users could buy a C300 or 500 and this lens, which is sure to be in the $20,000 range at least. And it would also compete in the rental market.

Smart, if this is true. But it doesn't address the pressing need for a 7DC or 5DC 4K DSLR or Cinema EOS equivalent for under $10K, does it Canon?


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## Policar (Mar 30, 2014)

vscd said:


> Is the *optical* quality of a Canon CN-E50mm T1.3 L F better than the IQ of a 50mm 1.2L? If yes, it would be interesting to get compared to the Zeiss Otus 55 f1.4...
> 
> (http://www.canon.de/For_Home/Product_Finder/Digital_Cinema/Cine_Lenses/CN-E50mm_T1.3_L_F/index.aspx)



Should be the same or virtually identical, different coatings maybe so maybe better contrast, more aperture blades I think, better mechanics.



transpo1 said:


> Smart, if this is true. But it doesn't address the pressing need for a 7DC or 5DC 4K DSLR or Cinema EOS equivalent for under $10K, does it Canon?



What need?


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## Etienne (Mar 30, 2014)

RunAndGun said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > I hope they release something for non-billionaires
> ...



An ENG lens (powered zoom, 24 - 200 (or 300, 400) FF equiv) to pair with C100 at $5000 would make an excellent package for independent doc makers. Cam+lens for $10K ... Is that asking too much?


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## Tugela (Mar 30, 2014)

Policar said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > Is the *optical* quality of a Canon CN-E50mm T1.3 L F better than the IQ of a 50mm 1.2L? If yes, it would be interesting to get compared to the Zeiss Otus 55 f1.4...
> ...



You personally not having a need for it does not mean there is not a need for it. The fact that there is so much interest in ML and Black Magic cameras clearly proves the point that there very much *IS* a need for it.


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## mkabi (Mar 30, 2014)

What is that camcorder? Is that a C50?


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## Policar (Mar 30, 2014)

Tugela said:


> Policar said:
> 
> 
> > vscd said:
> ...



There's interest, but relative to the CX00 line.... there aren't sales. The BMCC and ML products are "alternative" products that cater to niche audiences (primarily high end hobbyists) that Canon does not need to cater to because this market is much smaller (with significant competition) than the market (low end tv/indie cinema/high end event and wedding) they are doing exceptionally well in. C300s rent very well and are ubiquitous on reality shows as A cams and dramatic tv as B cams.

Besides, since the Black Magic cameras and 5D hack already cater to this market... there are already products here to choose if you are not interested in what the CX00 line has to offer. Hence what need is there for the same product but Canon-branded (and inevitably much more expensive)? Were Canon to add raw and 4k to its dSLRs it would cannibalize 1DC and C500 sales, which are already workflow nightmares, and force immature workflows onto consumers who are likely not as ready for them as those willing to drop huge price premiums are, compromising the company's reputation for easy-to-use production-ready hardware. Black Magic caters to an enthusiast crowd (similar to Red) that is willing to put up with workflow issues and immature hardware for what they perceive to be significant image quality gains... Canon is interested in the "good enough for your client and really easy to use" market.

When 4k tvs, monitors, and post-production workflows are mainstream Canon dSLRs will shoot 4k. (Maybe a few years after even, Canon dawdles a bit with such tech it seems.)


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## Tugela (Mar 31, 2014)

4K is already here, in the form of the GH4 for DSLR type cameras, and the AX100 for camcorders. If products like that are going to "cannibalize 1DC and C500 sales" (not going to happen btw), then by not having competitive products Canon will be surrendering that market share to Panasonic and Canon.

Odd thing is, both Sony and Panasonic have high end professional products as well, why are they not concerned with going to "cannibalize bla and bla sales"? Answer, because it is a different market. There will be no cannibalization going on, only ceding of market share.


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## mkabi (Mar 31, 2014)

Tugela said:


> 4K is already here, in the form of the GH4 for DSLR type cameras, and the AX100 for camcorders. If products like that are going to "cannibalize 1DC and C500 sales" (not going to happen btw), then by not having competitive products Canon will be surrendering that market share to Panasonic and Canon.
> 
> Odd thing is, both Sony and Panasonic have high end professional products as well, why are they not concerned with going to "cannibalize bla and bla sales"? Answer, because it is a different market. There will be no cannibalization going on, only ceding of market share.



You see... I believe and don't quote me on this... that Canon is looking for proof in numbers that they are losing customers to their competition. 

I mean look at you... you're not willing to jump ship, waiting for what Canon is going to put out. I'm sure many are waiting to see what Canon is going to put out. Nobody or rather very few people are willing to trade in their current Canon gear to go over to Canon's competition. What if Canon is never going to put out anything that you are looking for... then what? 

You know what... Sony and Panasonic needs customers... so they are willing to create 4K cameras, and you know what the beauty is... for them.... the camera leads to their 4K displays. Which at current are priced at what?

$2500 for the 55" sony brought down from $4500 (sale going on, I guess)
-https://store.sony.com/xbr-4k-ultra-hd-tvs/cat-27-catid-XBR-4K-Ultra-HD-TVs

$3800 for the 58" panasonic
]-http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/viera-televisions-all-tvs?selectedTopNavId=nav1&includeSubSwatches=true&price=[3200 TO 6399.99]

Editted to add: Stop saying "4K is already here." Its been around longer than you are apparently aware of... In my previous posts, I've said that the RED epic 617 monstro is able to shoot 28K, which was released back in 2008, so your pathetic 4K is really nothing special.


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## transpo1 (Mar 31, 2014)

Policar said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > Policar said:
> ...



This may be true, and yes, Canon is responsible to its shareholders and needs to maintain profitability by choosing carefully what markets and niches to enter, but --

What some of us are trying to say about this mentality is that, from a product standpoint, it's not forward-looking. Yes, an introduction of a 4K camera under $10K will cannibalize **some** of its higher end products. But Apple has proved that you can pinpoint where a market is headed and leap forward to cannibalize yourself before others do it for you. You put out a product that is ahead of the curve and sell on volume.

Any prosumer or high-end enthusiast who buys into a $6K-10K priced 4K DSLR or Cinema EOS body will be prepared for any workflow issues. And the amount of these bodies Canon would sell would make up for any cannibalization of the higher end. Pros want the higher end bodies anyway- reality shows are not going to give up their C300s for a DSLR form factor or crippled, lower end Cinema EOS body just because it does 4K. 

Canon can really have their cake and eat it, too, here- we just don't want them to be too afraid to try


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## RunAndGun (Mar 31, 2014)

mkabi, to my knowledge, those RED sensors have never been released. I remember seeing them talked about years ago, but I never heard anymore than that. 

Back to the lens, it's probably going to be over $20k. Likely in the $30k's, at least, but we'll see in a week or less. Spec wise, I haven't heard exact numbers(more correctly, I've heard two or three different, but similar zoom ranges) and I don't want to say the exact numbers that I have heard, but it's supposed to be wider than 20mm and longer than 105mm. Aperture, I haven't heard either, but hopefully a constant T2.9. And regarding the picture, I was told this morning by someone that officially they have to say it might be fake, but it's not- unofficially...

But, until Canon releases an announcement it's all rumor. By this time next week, we should know for sure. NAB really gets cranking Monday.


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## mkabi (Mar 31, 2014)

RunAndGun said:


> mkabi, to my knowledge, those RED sensors have never been released. I remember seeing them talked about years ago, but I never heard anymore than that.



Sorry for going off topic and off-brand so much...
Possibly they thought that 28K is over-kill? Not to mention the storage and work-flow issues...
IMAX is apparently 9K? Thats enough???
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?43033-If-your-shooting-28K-resolution-then-your-might-as-well-be-shooting-in-IMAX!


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## transpo1 (Mar 31, 2014)

RunAndGun said:


> mkabi, to my knowledge, those RED sensors have never been released. I remember seeing them talked about years ago, but I never heard anymore than that.
> 
> Back to the lens, it's probably going to be over $20k. Likely in the $30k's, at least, but we'll see in a week or less. Spec wise, I haven't heard exact numbers(more correctly, I've heard two or three different, but similar zoom ranges) and I don't want to say the exact numbers that I have heard, but it's supposed to be wider than 20mm and longer than 105mm. Aperture, I haven't heard either, but hopefully a constant T2.9. And regarding the picture, I was told this morning by someone that officially they have to say it might be fake, but it's not- unofficially...
> 
> But, until Canon releases an announcement it's all rumor. By this time next week, we should know for sure. NAB really gets cranking Monday.



Despite the price, this sounds like it really would be a great addition to the Cinema EOS pro body toolkit, as it would help those cameras compete with the documentary ENG-style Amira. The cost of a Cinema EOS body plus the new lens would be less than the Amira's base price of $40K. 

And many people, including myself, love the 24-105L, so a powered zoom of that length would be incredibly useful...


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## RunAndGun (Mar 31, 2014)

If the new lens does come in at the range I've heard(wider and longer than the Fuji Cabrio 19-90 and Canon 24-105), it will be very useful. It's still not in the range of our higher end 2/3" ENG lenses(I own two Fujinon 13x4.5's which are 4.5mm to 59mm and a Fujinon 22x7.8 which is 7.8mm to 172mm. And they have built-in 2x extenders and macro capabilities), but nothing really exists in that range for s35 cine anyway.

BTW, NHK is supposed to be demonstrating OTA 8K for the first time outside of Japan next week at NAB. I definitely will be planning on checking that out.


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## Etienne (Apr 1, 2014)

I'd be happy with a moderately-decent, powered 24-105 f/2.8 (FF equiv) cinema lens, made to match the C100. Get both for $5000 each, and that would be a great indie doc base kit at $10,000.

Is that really too much to ask?


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## Policar (Apr 2, 2014)

Etienne said:


> I'd be happy with a moderately-decent, powered 24-105 f/2.8 (FF equiv) cinema lens, made to match the C100. Get both for $5000 each, and that would be a great indie doc base kit at $10,000.
> 
> Is that really too much to ask?



Unfortunately, probably. The closest thing (26-120mm f2.8 equivalent) weighs 15lbs and costs $90,000.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/840523-REG/Fujinon_hk4_7x18_f_18_85mm_T2_0_Premier_PL.html


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2014)

Policar said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be happy with a moderately-decent, powered 24-105 f/2.8 (FF equiv) cinema lens, made to match the C100. Get both for $5000 each, and that would be a great indie doc base kit at $10,000.
> ...



I'm ok with f/2.8 instead of T/2.0 and I can accept some focus breathing, and a lower grade glass. Whatever they could do for $5000, it doesn't have to be perfect. Make it parfocal though!


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## vscd (Apr 2, 2014)

Policar said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be happy with a moderately-decent, powered 24-105 f/2.8 (FF equiv) cinema lens, made to match the C100. Get both for $5000 each, and that would be a great indie doc base kit at $10,000.
> ...



Remember, "Super 35mm" is APS-C, only... it just sounds like fullframe. So this isn't even something close to compare. 8)


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## Policar (Apr 2, 2014)

vscd said:


> Policar said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



What are you talking about? He said "FF equivalent" of a 24-105mm f2.8, which this would be (approximately) once factoring in crop factor for Super35.


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## RunAndGun (Apr 2, 2014)

My rep said it was probably going to be either 17-110 or 20-120, BUT it's 17-120 T2.95. And list is $33K. Not bad… Less expensive and wider range than the Fuji Cabrio 19-90. Now we'll just have to see how it stacks up optically. The Fuji's are excellent.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2014)

RunAndGun said:


> My rep said it was probably going to be either 17-110 or 20-120, BUT it's 17-120 T2.95. And list is $33K. Not bad… Less expensive and wider range than the Fuji Cabrio 19-90. Now we'll just have to see how it stacks up optically. The Fuji's are excellent.



I'm sure it will be a fantastic lens, but I'd like something smaller, lighter and cheaper, even if it is only 17-70, and the glass is not quite as good. An ENG / Doc lens that indies can afford, and use with no help from a crew ... $5000. A lens that would transform the C100 into a light weight ENG cam. If I get the C100 I may go for the soon-to-be-released tamron 16-300 3.5 - 6.3 for a GP lens. I'm sure canon could do a better version of the Tamron and add a power zoom. 16-135 f/4 or 16-60 f/2.8 would be awesome.

The 17-120 t/2.95 is US$32,000 and weighs 3 kg ! Put that on a C100 with rig, mic and batteries, and you're heading to 15-20 lbs. And you'll intimidate a lot of subjects too. All said, I'd love one, ... and someone to carry it too.

I'm leaning to the XF200 paired with my 5D3 .
I am still considering C100 to pair with 5D3, but I want an all-in-one fast-response package.
The C100 would be great paired to the XF200, but I don't want to give up my 5D3, and can't justify both a C100 and a XF200 right now.


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## RunAndGun (Apr 3, 2014)

It's not always just about weight. My ENG camera(lens, battery, VF) is 25-30 lbs and I can shoot a lot longer(and better) than I can with my C300 that clocks in around 10lbs(grip, batt, LCD, and a lens).

That being said, at this point in time, I don't see this lens becoming a part of my arsenal. Even as ideal as it would be for one of the shows I occasionally work on with the C300(and their rate really doesn't justify it).


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## Etienne (Apr 3, 2014)

RunAndGun said:


> It's not always just about weight. My ENG camera(lens, battery, VF) is 25-30 lbs and I can shoot a lot longer(and better) than I can with my C300 that clocks in around 10lbs(grip, batt, LCD, and a lens).
> 
> That being said, at this point in time, I don't see this lens becoming a part of my arsenal. Even as ideal as it would be for one of the shows I occasionally work on with the C300(and their rate really doesn't justify it).



What are you using for ENG now? What would you get out of the new stuff?
Right now I have a 5D3 and EF lenses (16-35, 24-105, 70-200 2.8, 2x teleconverter, 28 2.8 IS, 35 f/2.0 IS, 50 1.4, 100 2.8 macro), EOS-M with adapter, and 60D, Tokina 50-135 2.8, Tokina 11-16) and a bunch of other gear (audio, tripods , etc).

I do some event coverage, and documentaries. I want to do more of this. I have been thinking of the C100, at least my lenses would be useful. But I'd also like to have something all-in-one, quick to grab, with a GP all around lens. Thinking of the XA20 or XF200, or maybe even just a little Panasonic camcorder. Not sure what to do. C300 is too much $. Don't know much about the new Panasonic GH4 (with the audio add-on) but I suspect this cam is over-hyped.

What do you think?


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## RunAndGun (Apr 3, 2014)

Etienne said:


> What are you using for ENG now? What would you get out of the new stuff?
> Right now I have a 5D3 and EF lenses (16-35, 24-105, 70-200 2.8, 2x teleconverter, 28 2.8 IS, 35 f/2.0 IS, 50 1.4, 100 2.8 macro), EOS-M with adapter, and 60D, Tokina 50-135 2.8, Tokina 11-16) and a bunch of other gear (audio, tripods , etc).
> 
> I do some event coverage, and documentaries. I want to do more of this. I have been thinking of the C100, at least my lenses would be useful. But I'd also like to have something all-in-one, quick to grab, with a GP all around lens. Thinking of the XA20 or XF200, or maybe even just a little Panasonic camcorder. Not sure what to do. C300 is too much $. Don't know much about the new Panasonic GH4 (with the audio add-on) but I suspect this cam is over-hyped.
> ...



My 'bread and butter' camera is a Panasonic 2700(P2 VariCam) w/Fuji HA13x4.5. I bought the C300 mainly just for sit-down interviews and 'artsy b-roll' for feature pieces, but I do work on one show that specifies the C300 as THE camera(The bulk of that show should really be shot with a "real ENG" camera, but a lens like the 17-120 would help).

I've never shot extensively with a 5 for *video*. I have two mkII's and a mkIII, but I bought them for stills. But I have used my mkIII a few times for a third or fourth angle/lock-off. We've all seen the beautiful images that can be made with it, but I couldn't imagine trying to cover an event with one. I look at them primarily as a still cam, but if I look at it in the video sense, it should be more of a specialty camera (interviews, specialty shots/b-roll) not a general ENG camera substitute. You would be much better served with a true camcorder, like the XF200 you mentioned. The ergonomics would be MUCH better and the smaller sensor would help, too. A large sensor when trying to cover an event ENG style can be a hinderance. Wide aperture lenses wide open with a large sensor equals SHALLOW depth of field which can also equal frustration and missed/blown focus when you really need it.


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## Etienne (Apr 3, 2014)

RunAndGun said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > What are you using for ENG now? What would you get out of the new stuff?
> ...



I'm worried about low light performance. I've got some of my favorite stuff when there's been almost no light. What do you think of a C100 ? No power zoom, but most everything else is there.


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## RunAndGun (Apr 3, 2014)

I've never used the C100, but most that have them seem to love them and there's no doubt that the image it makes is very good. Personally, the ergonomics of the Cx00 series don't fit my shooting style, but others LOVE them and if you're one of those that do like it, you can probably do great things with it.


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## Etienne (Apr 3, 2014)

RunAndGun said:


> I've never used the C100, but most that have them seem to love them and there's no doubt that the image it makes is very good. Personally, the ergonomics of the Cx00 series don't fit my shooting style, but others LOVE them and if you're one of those that do like it, you can probably do great things with it.



If low light performance is really good, I'll probably go with the XF200. The C100 low light is supposedly incredibly good, better than my 5DIII, so that is really tempting for me. 

Ultimately, I think the best filming package for me would be both the XF200 and the C100, but I really want to keep my 5DIII, not just for stills, but I like the video from it as well and many times I am glad to have both in one package. Don't think I can swing keeping all three right now.


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