# 2nd flash vs transmitter



## rfdesigner (Jul 9, 2016)

Hi

So I recently got my mits on a Yongnuo YN600EX-RT, and having invested in Eneloop Pros it's firing away brilliantly.

Next step is to get it off camera. Now it occurs to me that the cost difference between a transmitter (£57) and a second flash (£85) is small enough that I'm wondering if I even bother with a transmitter at all. The biggest advantage of the transmitter I can see is it shrinks the bag contents. If I'd never actually use the on camera gun as a flash when using multiple slaves then I'd get a transmitter.

So:

Those of you that use multiple flash guns.. how often do you shoot with on & off camera flash in the same setup?.. do you ever do this?


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## sunnyVan (Jul 9, 2016)

It's nice to have two flash guns eventually. But in my personal experience 90% of the time having one flash and one remote serves my need. A remote is significantly smaller and lighter than a flash. I think it's a good idea to get the remote first and in the future get a second flash.


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## Random Orbits (Jul 9, 2016)

I'd rather have a second flash than the remote transmitter. In the worst case, you have a weight penalty as a remote trigger. In the best case, you're using it as a second light and it gives you more creative control over your shot.

Having said this, having a remote is nice, and I prefer shooting with the remote as the commander than a flash unit. It gives me more freedom to put flashes where I want them and it keeps the camera lighter and less unwieldy. Whether or not that luxury is worth £57 is up to individual judgement.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2016)

I use both, a second flash and a transmitter, if I could only have one option it would be the flash. 

First, it is another light source so gives some depth to equipment failure, but most importantly, ISO performance and flash power are good enough to make on camera bounce flash a very real and creative tool.


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## rfdesigner (Jul 9, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> It's nice to have two flash guns eventually. But in my personal experience 90% of the time having one flash and one remote serves my need. A remote is significantly smaller and lighter than a flash. I think it's a good idea to get the remote first and in the future get a second flash.



thanks, so that's a +1 for the remote.



Random Orbits said:


> I'd rather have a second flash than the remote transmitter. In the worst case, you have a weight penalty as a remote trigger. In the best case, you're using it as a second light and it gives you more creative control over your shot.
> 
> Having said this, having a remote is nice, and I prefer shooting with the remote as the commander than a flash unit. It gives me more freedom to put flashes where I want them and it keeps the camera lighter and less unwieldy. Whether or not that luxury is worth £57 is up to individual judgement.





privatebydesign said:


> I use both, a second flash and a transmitter, if I could only have one option it would be the flash.
> 
> First, it is another light source so gives some depth to equipment failure, but most importantly, ISO performance and flash power are good enough to make on camera bounce flash a very real and creative tool.



I see having 2 (and probably 3) flashes in due course is an inevitabilty for me, I don't mind spending for kit I really will use, I just don't want to end up with a transmitter that's going to end up staying in the bag.

That you both have the transmitter and multiple flashes and clearly still use the transmitter suggests it's probably worth getting one next, thanks.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 9, 2016)

I have the ST-E3-RT and four 600EX-RT flashes. Mostly, I use the transmitter but I do occasionally use an on-camera flash for bounced light and to trigger off-camera flashes.


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## JonAustin (Jul 9, 2016)

I have four 600EX-RT flashes. I considered the (Canon) transmitter when I purchased my 600's 4 years ago, but the lack of AF assist put me off it. I also like the additional fill / bounce flash flexibility of the on-camera flash, although I use it infrequently. Plus, there's the redundancy mentioned in an earlier response.

The smaller / lighter / less expensive arguments for the transmitter are undeniable, but the additional capabilities of the flash win out IMHO. When I consider all the gear I have to tote for my portable studio -- bodies, lenses, flashes, tripods, light stands, backdrops, etc. -- the incremental size and weight of the master flash over a transmitter seems very small, indeed.


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## StudentOfLight (Jul 9, 2016)

I would opt for a second flash.

I think the armed forces have a saying on the lines of: "Two is one, and one is none." It's good to have an immediately available backup in case one fails for whatever reason.

I also like having the additional light/source. e.g. You could use the on-camera flash to bounce light off a wall or ceiling for ambience. While your off-camera flash is a key light or a background light. Having more light under your control is never a bad thing.


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## benique (Jul 9, 2016)

I have several YN-600EX-RT and one YN-E3-RT. Before that I used two Canon flashes without RT which was a pain to use. Nevertheless it allowed me to take pretty nice portraits with two light sources.

Once you use more than one flash you will see that it has a lot of advantages and you'll learn more than by only using an additional transmitter. So I would definitely get the 2nd flash in your position.


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## FTb-n (Jul 9, 2016)

I rarely shoot with a flash on camera. If I do, it's only if I can bounce the light off a wall or ceiling. This is generally a backup scenario.

My goto flash kit includes two Yongnuo 565s, two Yongnuo "Stofen" diffusers, four Yongnuo 622c transceivers, and two 5x5" bases cut from a heavy cutting board with a cheap plastic shoe foot mounted to each. Occasionally, I add wrap-around foam reflectors. (I don't often need the fourth transceiver, but it sometimes comes in handy when I shoot with two bodies.)

This is a kit that I use when light stands and soft boxes are too much for a given shoot and I need to adapt quickly to a situation. Placing one or two flashes on a table of a floor and bouncing the light around has given me great light and lots of flexibility. An added benefit of 565/622 combo is that I can assign each flash to a different "group" and control both the output and the zoom head for each flash from the Canon menu.

You can get very creative with something this simple. I recently photographed a motorhome and tucked a flash inside different compartments to get more even lighting to show off the storage. Once in position, it was helpful to adjust both the output and the spread of the tucked flash from the camera.

Add a stand, an umbrella swivel adapter, and a white 45" umbrella, and you can add more flexibility to this kit.

When shooting more formal portraits with studio strobes, softboxes, and/or umbrellas, the above kit comes in handy as kicker lights on the backdrop or part of of my subject. 

I don't know whether the 622c is compatible with the YN600EX-RT's radio, but I do find the external transceivers to be quite flexible. I also use them with my studio strobes.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 9, 2016)

Whereas the ST-E3 Canon has no AF assist beam, I would choose the clone YongNuo, or a smaller flash as the "430EXiii RT".
However, be aware that the 430EXiii RT has an AF assist beam that only works with the central focal point. To illuminate other points of focus, outside the center, the 430EXiii RT emits a light flash lamp, as does the built-in flash in the cameras.


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## Ozarker (Jul 9, 2016)

2nd Flash.


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## Jim Saunders (Jul 10, 2016)

If nothing else having a flash instead of the transmitter puts the display and the buttons in the same plane as all the other buttons so you don't have to keep looking at the top of your camera to see what your flashes are up to.

Jim


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## pwp (Jul 10, 2016)

I used to work with just three 600 EX-RT's, using one as an on-camera master. Later I bought the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT and now wonder why I left it so long. Functionally it's identical, but from practical, lighter, tidier, more compact and perceptual viewpoints it's just so much nicer to work with. 

I chose the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT over the Canon entirely because of the AF assist. The fact that Canon left AF assist off their ST-E3-RT has gifted huge YN-E3-RT sales to Yongnuo. Who's arguing?

-pw


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## pwp (Jul 10, 2016)

Jim Saunders said:


> If nothing else having a flash instead of the transmitter puts the display and the buttons in the same plane as all the other buttons so you don't have to keep looking at the top of your camera to see what your flashes are up to.



That's true, and it's easier to see because it's on a more useful visual plane. But whether I'm using a 600 EX-RT or Yongnuo YN-E3-RT as on-camera master, I use the in-camera External Speedlight Control menu. Just seems easier & quicker to navigate.

-pw


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## JonAustin (Jul 10, 2016)

pwp said:


> ... But whether I'm using a 600 EX-RT or Yongnuo YN-E3-RT as on-camera master, I use the in-camera External Speedlight Control menu. Just seems easier & quicker to navigate.
> 
> -pw


Good tip. When I'm shooting in a multi-flash environment, my camera is always tethered to a laptop running Canon EOS Utility, which is a great tool for adjusting flash settings on the fly (and saving them for later use), but I will have to check out the in-camera Speedlight menu.


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## Jim Saunders (Jul 12, 2016)

pwp said:


> Jim Saunders said:
> 
> 
> > If nothing else having a flash instead of the transmitter puts the display and the buttons in the same plane as all the other buttons so you don't have to keep looking at the top of your camera to see what your flashes are up to.
> ...



Personally I prefer the menu on the transmitter/flash, but perhaps I should invest some time in the in-camera menu. Neither are ideal, but they're not bad for what the hardware they run on.

Jim


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## PerBuch (Jul 12, 2016)

430ex III rt


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## pwp (Jul 12, 2016)

JonAustin said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > ... But whether I'm using a 600 EX-RT or Yongnuo YN-E3-RT as on-camera master, I use the in-camera External Speedlight Control menu. Just seems easier & quicker to navigate.
> ...



If in-camera External Speedlight Control is something you use, then make sure to add it as a My Menu item. It surprises me to find out how many Canon photographers are not using the My Menu function. It is the one I use most often, rarely straying into the main menus. In the camera menu settings if you move all the way over to the right you will find a green star with the title "My Menu." My contact at CPS woke me up to My Menu when the 1D MkIV first shipped.

What this allows you to do is set up that page so that you can put your most accessed menu settings on one page so that when you press the menu button it will take you right to a page of those menu options. That way you can access them quickly without having to try and page through your menu system. 

What I'd prefer would be that the Q menu was customizable. I'd put External Speedlight Control there. 

-pw


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## JonAustin (Jul 12, 2016)

pwp said:


> If in-camera External Speedlight Control is something you use, then make sure to add it as a My Menu item. It surprises me to find out how many Canon photographers are not using the My Menu function. It is the one I use most often, rarely straying into the main menus. In the camera menu settings if you move all the way over to the right you will find a green star with the title "My Menu." My contact at CPS woke me up to My Menu when the 1D MkIV first shipped.
> 
> What this allows you to do is set up that page so that you can put your most accessed menu settings on one page so that when you press the menu button it will take you right to a page of those menu options. That way you can access them quickly without having to try and page through your menu system.
> -pw



Another good tip! I've been using the My Menu function in my 5DIII since I got it. Great timesaver.


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## rfdesigner (Jul 12, 2016)

pwp said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



Good call... 

but already in "my menu", the flash controls went in the same day it arrived!. saves SO many button presses
And now I'm waiting a couple more weeks for my photo fund to get fat enough for the 2nd flash.. so thanks to everyone for your input. (damn, hate having to be patient)

RE the 430EXIII, I did stop and look at that, it's close, but it's almost a stop less powerful for twice the cost (58m vs 43m @105mm)

Having a single flash on camera right now did force me to try something that worked enough to use: I discovered if I point the flash up 45 and rotate one side, about 90~135, zoomed to 200mm I can semi create the classic off camera flash portrait look, but not as good as the background gets too much light, but still for on camera flash without a brolly it isn't bad.


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## Mikehit (Jul 12, 2016)

It depends on how you intend to use the flashes. An optical trigger (using one flash to fire another) is line-of-sight between the two units. With a radio trigger you can hide the flash behind a tree or have it behind you or you can use the same remote to trigger the camera and flash from a distance.
It is because of this versatility that I got the trigger first then added second flash later


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## kphoto99 (Jul 12, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > JonAustin said:
> ...



There are two modifiers for the on camera flash that I use when I have only one flash with me.
1. A ring flash: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/121446394163
2. A flash bender: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Foldable-Speedlight-Reflector-Snoot-Sealed-Flash-Softbox-Diffuser-Bender-Beam-L-/191726399529?hash=item2ca3c8b029:g:4xkAAOSw5ZBWMb4Q

Both are portable and I like them for portraits on the go.


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## rfdesigner (Aug 26, 2016)

Well today my 2nd flash turned up while I was out buying a flash stand, mount thingy and modifier.

after working out how to get a basic single off camera flash going my daughter came indoors asking for more water for the paddling pool.. she got her water but not until she'd paid my randsom of a spot of modelling.

WOW!!! this is a HUGE leg up on my photography. Stuff L glass, off camera flash rocks!

I'm going to have a wonderful bank holiday weekend mucking about with my new gear.

thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 26, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> Well today my 2nd flash turned up while I was out buying a flash stand, mount thingy and modifier.
> 
> after working out how to get a basic single off camera flash going my daughter came indoors asking for more water for the paddling pool.. she got her water but not until she'd paid my randsom of a spot of modelling.
> 
> ...



Haha, ever read my signature


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## rfdesigner (Aug 26, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > Well today my 2nd flash turned up while I was out buying a flash stand, mount thingy and modifier.
> ...



I don't think there's much arguing with that!

EDIT:

Just completed session 1.. classic angles with the softbox, without the softbox, close, far, dual flash, rear lit.. lots of fun. Just as well the subject was placid... 







My next camera gear will be drop-cloths relectors and gels.


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