# Still need a fast lens?



## Dennis Ernst (Mar 7, 2012)

With the new 5D mark III and the high ISO speeds it will bring, do you still need or want a fast lens? Will a f/4 work just as well as a f/2.8 with a 5D mark II? Will it change the lens you might buy for it in the future?


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## Leopard Lupus (Mar 7, 2012)

Considering what I shoot, i will keep my fast primes and continue to invest in them. Personally, regardless if a f/4 functions as well as an f/2.8, I will always still go after the 1.2s and 1.4s 8)


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## Terry Rogers (Mar 7, 2012)

While an f/4 lens will probably work in more situations than before given high iso's, it won't achieve as diffuse a backround as a faster lens. If you want the most blurred backround, get a fast prime, medium blurred backround, 2.8 zoom, and lastly, moderately blurred backround (dependent on focal length) f/4 zoom. You generall save a bunch of money and weight with the slower lenses.


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## pwp (Mar 7, 2012)

Depending on your shooting style the answer could be that f/2.8 & f/4 glass is fine. For me this is already the case with the f/4 24-105is and f/4 17-40 when hooked up to the 1D4 body in particular. 

I hankered for very fast glass more back in the film days when my default film stock was 100 iso. Later it was still important with cameras like the 1Ds which got noisy after 200 iso. It was often a job saving decision to pack the 50 f/1.4 and the 24 f/1.4. 

But really since the original 5D I'm happy to have f/2.8 glass in the bag from the "need for speed" viewpoint. The situation has done nothing but improve with each subsequent release. Photographers more skilled than me can deliver great results in dynamic shooting situations with f/1.2 - f/2 apertures. I need that touch more DOF to guarantee an acceptable percentage of keepers.

Paul Wright


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## wickidwombat (Mar 7, 2012)

sometimes you just want that wide aperture bokeh and blur that only fast glass can give


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## koolman (Mar 7, 2012)

You will find that in many cases, the faster lenses, are more expensive, and hence have better overall quality IQ and glass as they appeal to a more demanding professional audience.

True, that as ridiculously high ISO's are usable in the advanced DSLR world, the necessity of a fast lens for decent images in low light situations - as we used to have in the film days and older digital days - is less.

Coupled with the new IS feature found in the lenses, allowing slower TV exposures, large AV's are not as important as far as exposure.

However - large AV's also have a creative affect on images as they allow much more shallow DOF - an affect you will often see in pro photography. This unique feature is not possible with slower lenses.


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## WJM (Mar 7, 2012)

Here are some situations when you might need high ISO speeds _and_ a fast lens:

1. Indoor action sports. Now some sportshalls are too dark to shoot decent pictures.
2. Fast moving animals in the woods while the dusk sets in.

With the newer cameras with higher ISO speeds it is posible to shoot in these situations (while it was not possible before) but you still need fast lens (else the gain in shutter speed is gone).


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## Kit. (Mar 7, 2012)

Dennis Ernst said:


> With the new 5D mark III and the high ISO speeds it will bring, do you still need or want a fast lens? Will a f/4 work just as well as a f/2.8 with a 5D mark II? Will it change the lens you might buy for it in the future?


Those 5 diagonal cross-type autofocus sensors on mark III will work only with f/2.8 and faster lenses. So, if you _need_ extra AF speed, precision and reliability, f/2.8 lenses will still be better than f/4 ones.


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## briansquibb (Mar 7, 2012)

Take the scenario of:

5D2, 1/125, iso 3200, f/2.8

The the best option from an IQ point of view is

5D3, 1/125, is3200, f/2.8

as it will give a much better picture

Rule is not to squander the technology improvements on the body just to get cheaper glass.


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## 00Q (Mar 7, 2012)

The f2.8 will give you a nice bokeh that the f4 cant achieve even if you can shoot now with a faster shutter speed on the 5DIII. So it corrects for half the problem of a slow lens, but not all.


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## Admin US West (Mar 7, 2012)

To me, it seems like there is never as much light as I'd like. 1 or 2 more stops will let me use faster shutter speeds and reduce motion blur. I often am using my 5D MK II at ISO 6400 and f/1.4 with too slow of a shutter speed.

In good light, of course, no need for a upgrade.


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## kferguson (Mar 7, 2012)

One thing that appears to have been mostly overlooked is the different look/feel/color intepretation and bokeh of the faster primes. To me, there is much more of an advantage than just "speed." Combine them with the 5D Mark III and I am hoping to really be able to unleash the beast with my primes thanks to the new focusing system.


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## birdman (Mar 7, 2012)

Wooohhh, slow down cowboys. The 5d3 will be better in low-light, but if you are expecting a 2-3 generation jump, then you may be in for a huge surprise. One full stop in lSO raw is what I'd honestly expect. 

All this does for you is make a cleaner image in low-light. Such as astrophotography, or poorly lit events. Best of luck to you all. I just cannot pull the trigger on the new 5d3 until i see reviews.


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## 7enderbender (Mar 7, 2012)

Dennis Ernst said:


> With the new 5D mark III and the high ISO speeds it will bring, do you still need or want a fast lens? Will a f/4 work just as well as a f/2.8 with a 5D mark II? Will it change the lens you might buy for it in the future?



To me that is a question that is only marginally impacted by ISO speed, IS or shutter speeds. I'll most certainly buy a few more fast primes before I'll upgrade to a 5DIII (or whatever is available by the time my Mark II breaks). I consider the very usable 3200 ISO in my current camera a bonus but I was also perfectly happy with 400 ISO film; so that's that. Same with the Mark III. Nice bonus but the new AF is actually more exciting (since there will obviously never be a full time manual DSLR ever again which would be even more exciting). So is the new flash system

Fast primes I prefer for the image quality and control over depth of field. As useful as my 24-105 is for a lot of things, but there is stuff it just can't do.


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## Fandongo (Mar 7, 2012)

WJM said:


> Here are some situations when you might need high ISO speeds _and_ a fast lens:
> 
> 1. Indoor action sports. Now some sportshalls are too dark to shoot decent pictures.
> 2. Fast moving animals in the woods while the dusk sets in.
> ...



Damn right, I'd also like to add

3. Wandering around at twilight, picking up incredibly clean pics/video using street lights.

The possibilities are endless with a fast lens + 5diii, go where no man has gone before (and stop down in those places).
That being said, the kit lens would be great for daytime/most photography needs, particularly if you're just beginning.

The 50 1.8 is a great place to start (you can shove it in your pocket, juggle it, etc.)
...and a 24 1.4 is a great place to end.


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## Edwin Herdman (Mar 10, 2012)

koolman said:


> True, that as ridiculously high ISO's are usable in the advanced DSLR world, the necessity of a fast lens for decent images in low light situations - as we used to have in the film days and older digital days - is less.


With the exception of the 50mm f/1.4 prime, the actual supply of fast lenses seems better than in the film era. And if you go back to the 1970s and earlier the zoom lenses tended to be slow by today's standards.

It is interesting though that "noisy" ISO settings, that everybody complains about on forums, are probably still better than using many films (although I have seen pretty good results from some newer color films being pushed in processing), certainly better than many of the classic cheaper films.

I think that, indoors, a f/2.8 or even f/2 lens is the minimum for shooting fast action (interestingly, f/2 might be the current "limit" for usefulness of a lens, though we'll have to see how the 5D III and the 1D X, as well as the T4i and other APS-C cameras, treat wider apertures).


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## katwil (Mar 11, 2012)

Five years ago I needed a fast lens to get a decent shot with available light in some situations on my 20D. Now with my 5D II, f/2.8 or lower gives me more room for creativity with DOF. That won’t change with the 5D III. No matter how good the body is, there are simply some things that can’t be done with a slow lens.


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## heheapa (Mar 12, 2012)

Yes. I just experienced last Saturday that required ISO6400, F1.4, 1/40s with my 5D markii + 35L for candle blowing moment in a birthday event. If I have a usable ISO25600, it will give me 1/160s and more steady shots.


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## heheapa (Mar 12, 2012)

Professionals goes to fast lens are usually for the DOF and the Faster AF at low light, not just purely for faster shutter speed.


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## briansquibb (Mar 12, 2012)

heheapa said:


> Professionals goes to fast lens are usually for the DOF and the Faster AF at low light, not just purely for faster shutter speed.



... and lower iso for better IQ


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## MaGiL (Mar 12, 2012)

Leopard Lupus said:


> Considering what I shoot, i will keep my fast primes and continue to invest in them. Personally, regardless if a f/4 functions as well as an f/2.8, I will always still go after the 1.2s and 1.4s 8)



+1

1.2/1.4 is not only about the correct exposure...it's also about creativity 8)


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## Dylan777 (Mar 12, 2012)

Leopard Lupus said:


> Considering what I shoot, i will keep my fast primes and continue to invest in them. Personally, regardless if a f/4 functions as well as an f/2.8, I will always still go after the 1.2s and 1.4s 8)



Yeap...same here. I'm thinking upgrade my 50mm f1.4 to f1.2. Can't wait to see how my 5D III will work with my f1.4 LOVE THE RED RING


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## pz-photography (Mar 12, 2012)

Even with the great ISO performance of the 5D III, you can't get decent bokeh out of somthing like a 24-105 f4. Since I'm in love with the bokeh of the fast Canon L lenses I'll definitely keep all of them (which would be the 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 85 1.2 II and 100 2.8, which also has a greeeeeeat bokeh  ) The nice thing with this fast lenses is that you can isolate your subject even if its a little bit further away.


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## thepancakeman (Mar 12, 2012)

pz-photography said:


> Even with the great ISO performance of the 5D III, you can't get decent bokeh out of somthing like a 24-105 f4.



I agree--my wife loves her 24-105 f/4, but I almost never use it because I'm addicted to that dreamy background blur that comes from faster lenses.


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## briansquibb (Mar 12, 2012)

thepancakeman said:


> pz-photography said:
> 
> 
> > Even with the great ISO performance of the 5D III, you can't get decent bokeh out of somthing like a 24-105 f4.
> ...



The bg blur improves the closer you get to the subject in fact there are a lot of occasions when faster than f/4 for a head shot would result in the far eye being oof


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## Daniel Flather (Mar 13, 2012)

F2.8 is fast?


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## briansquibb (Mar 13, 2012)

Daniel Flather said:


> F2.8 is fast?



About as fast as you can go without really having to worry about how the shallow DOF will impact the image. Also the point where the AF starts to work for you at its best.

I suspect that is why the recent wa were f/2.8.


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## Seamus (Mar 13, 2012)

kferguson said:


> One thing that appears to have been mostly overlooked is the different look/feel/color intepretation and bokeh of the faster primes. To me, there is much more of an advantage than just "speed." Combine them with the 5D Mark III and I am hoping to really be able to unleash the beast with my primes thanks to the new focusing system.



+1

I agree, I'm looking forward to the new focusing system and my 50 f1.2L. The fastest primes have much more to offer than just "speed", the look/feel/color and bokeh are most important to me. Of course the low light capabilities are great too...


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## Enthusiast (Mar 14, 2012)

Before we discuss how fast the lenses needs to be, we need to discuss what you want to do?
My kids are to fast for a slow 2.8 lens! My wife is joking about my "mans handbag" but she likes the pics from my 50mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.4 Sigmas on my old 40D. The 5d M3 is preordered the crop is even not blury enough and I want FF just for that. If you shoot dinosaurs in the museum than f=8 is enough!You will get the bones in the back razor sharp. 8)


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