# Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 15, 2014)

```
<p>The Canon EOS 7D Mark II digital SLR camera is designed to meet the demands of photographers and videographers who want a camera that can provide a wide range of artistic opportunities. With a winning combination of cutting-edge operations and a robust, ergonomic design, it is optimized to make even the most challenging photography simple and easy. The EOS 7D Mark II features a refined APS-C sized 20.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor with Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors for gorgeous imagery. It shoots up to 10 frames per second at ISOs ranging from 100–16000 (expandable to H1: 25600, H2: 51200), has a 65-point* all cross-type AF system and features Canon’s amazing Dual Pixel CMOS AF for brilliant Live-View AF. It has dual card slots for both CF and SD cards, USB 3.0 connectivity and even has built-in GPS** for easy location tagging, automatically. Compatible with an ever-expanding collection of EF and EF-S lenses plus a host of EOS accessories, the EOS 7D Mark II is an ideal tool for creative and ambitious photography.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d21.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-17287" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d21.jpg" alt="7d21" width="500" height="397" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 7D Mark II Features</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>20.2 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) sensor and ISO 100–16000 (expandable to H1: 25600, H2: 51200) for reduced noise at high ISOs and high performance Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors for outstanding image quality and processing speed.</li>
<li>High speed continuous shooting up to 10.0 fps allows you to capture fast action.</li>
<li>65-point* all cross-type AF system for high-performance, accurate subject tracking with EV -3 sensitivity (center point) for focusing in extreme low-light conditions.</li>
<li>Canon’s innovative Dual Pixel CMOS AF enables you to shoot video like a camcorder with smooth, fast, and accurate autofocus and lets you enjoy instant and precise autofocus even when shooting stills.</li>
<li>Stunning Full HD video with Custom Movie Servo AF (speed and sensitivity) for continuous focus tracking of moving subjects, multiple frame rates including Full HD recording at 60p in MOV and MP4 formats and uncompressed HDMI out.</li>
<li>Intelligent Viewfinder II provides approximately 100% field of view for shooting ease.</li>
<li>Improved custom controls and built-in intervalometer and bulb timer for expanded creativity.</li>
<li>Magnesium alloy body with shutter durability up to 200,000 cycles and enhanced dust and weather resistance.</li>
<li>EOS Scene Detection System features a new 150,000-pixel/RGB+IR metering sensor for improved precision.</li>
<li>Built-in GPS** Receiver provides a digital compass, records location information (longitude, latitude, elevation and universal coordinated time (UTC)) as EXIF information for geotagging images when shooting.</li>
<li>3.0-inch Clear View II LCD monitor (approximately 1,040,000 dots) for bright and clear viewing.</li>
<li>Additional Features</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>20.2 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) sensor and ISO 100–16000</strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II has a newly designed 20.2 Megapixel sensor that delivers high-resolution image files with stunning detail and impressive clarity. Optimized for low-light shooting, the EOS 7D Mark II’s sensor captures images at up to ISO 16000 (expandable to H1: 25600, H2: 51200) with remarkably low noise, thanks to its improved, higher sensitivity design. Phenomenal for stills, the EOS 7D Mark II’s sensor is equally up to the task for movies, delivering Full HD capture even at rates of up to 60p.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors</strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II’s sensor works seamlessly with its Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors for advanced image processing across the board. These image processors help the EOS 7D Mark II capture up to 1090 JPEG, 31 RAW, and 19 RAW + JPEG shots in a single burst for amazing action photography. Further, they enable the camera’s powerful image processing on-the-fly: lens aberration, variances in peripheral illumination and image distortion can all be corrected in real time thanks to the EOS 7D Mark II’s Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d23.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-17289" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d23.jpg" alt="7d23" width="500" height="402" /></a></p>
<p><strong>High speed continuous shooting up to 10.0 fps allows you to capture fast action</strong>

With a new, rugged shutter designed for 200,000 cycles, the EOS 7D Mark II can shoot up to 10 frames per second to capture all the action. With super quick AF and exposure systems complementing the shutter’s 55 msec shutter release time lag, the EOS 7D Mark II is tailored to meet and even exceed the speed of the action. Refined mechanics like a newly designed, more efficient shutter-drive motor and a vibration dampened mirror drive mean impressive performance for high caliber image quality, fast.</p>
<p><strong>Sophisticated Mirror Control System</strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II camera employs an advanced mirror vibration control technology that enables the camera to support its speedy, continuous shooting capabilities while ensuring great image quality. The system uses a motor to help reduce the vibrations caused by high-speed shooting. By reducing the vibrations, the camera can achieve accurate and precise autofocus to provide steady and clear action shots at up to 10.0 frames per second.</p>
<p><strong>65-point* all cross-type AF system for high-performance, accurate subject tracking with EV -3 sensitivity (center point) for </strong><strong>focusing in extreme low-light conditions</strong>

An EOS first, the EOS 7D Mark II features 65 all cross-type AF points* for high precision AF at remarkable speed. Cross-type AF points ensure stable AF that is not influenced by the subject’s shape or color. On the EOS 7D Mark II, the AF points are spread over a wide area of the frame, enabling faster AF, wherever the subject lies. With a central dual cross-type AF point of f/2.8, AF is enhanced with lenses faster than f/2.8. And thanks to this new system, AF is possible even in dim lighting as low as EV-3.</p>
<p><strong>Canon’s innovative Dual Pixel CMOS AF enables you to shoot video like a camcorder with smooth, fast, and accurate autofocus </strong><strong>and lets you enjoy instant and precise autofocus even when shooting stills </strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II features Canon’s revolutionary Dual Pixel CMOS AF, a milestone in AF speed and accuracy that unlocks the potential of Live View shooting. This advanced technology has truly changed what is possible with a DSLR camera. Dual Pixel CMOS AF involves a sophisticated rethinking of the CMOS sensor. Traditionally, image sensors have one photodiode per pixel for recording, but the CMOS sensor on the EOS 7D Mark II has two photodiodes per pixel, 40 million in total, enabling each pixel on the sensor to both perform phase-difference detection autofocus and capture light. With phase-difference detection AF, autofocus is achieved quickly and easily on the camera. This unique AF system enables autofocus on approximately 80% of the image plane, vertically and horizontally, and helps ensure virtually no loss in image quality.</p>
<p><strong>Stunning Full HD video with custom Movie Servo AF (speed and sensitivity) for continuous focus tracking of moving subjects, </strong>

<strong>multiple frame rates including Full HD recording at 60p in MOV and MP4 formats and uncompressed HDMI out</strong>

While offering performance improvements across the board for still photography, the EOS 7D Mark II is also an incredibly capable HD movie camera. Taking advantage of its Dual Pixel CMOS AF capabilities, the EOS 7D Mark II has customizable Movie Servo AF options: not only can AF location be defined, AF speed and tracking intervals can be specified too, for fluid, smooth focus transitions. The EOS 7D Mark II delivers refined and detailed image quality with Full HD 60P recording at ISO values up to 16000, has an HDMI output and records to both SD and CF cards for versatility and security during important shoots.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d22.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-17288" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d22.jpg" alt="7d22" width="500" height="334" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Intelligent Viewfinder II provides approximately 100% field of view for shooting ease</strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II’s Intelligent Viewfinder II makes it easy to both shoot, change and confirm camera settings and shooting modes all without looking away from the viewfinder. Displaying approximately 100% of the composition, the viewfinder can show settings like shooting mode, exposure level, white balance, drive mode, AF operation, metering mode, recording format, even an electronic level and more. All of this information can be displayed by or superimposed easily over the image for review while shooting, and multiple views are customizable through the EOS 7D Mark II’s simple user interface.</p>
<p><strong>Improved custom controls and built-in intervalometer and bulb timer for expanded creativity</strong>

An EOS first, the EOS 7D Mark II offers time-lapse fixed-point shooting and long exposures without the need for a remote control. The EOS 7D Mark II’s interval timer takes from 1 to 99 shots at preselected intervals, ideal for shooting flowers as they bloom or clouds drifting through the sky. Its built-in bulb timer keeps the shutter open for a designated amount of time, perfect for night photography, or to capture the flow of traffic on a street corner.</p>
<p><strong>Magnesium alloy body with shutter durability up to 200,000 cycles and enhanced dust and weather resistance</strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II is constructed of the highest quality materials, and to exacting standards that ensure unfettered performance at all times. For example, the shutter can shoot at speeds up to 1/8000 sec. for up to 200,000 cycles, the chassis is built of lightweight and rigid magnesium, and the camera’s seals are built to resist water and dust. This combination makes the EOS 7D Mark II ready for almost anything.</p>
<p><strong>EOS Scene Detection System features a new 150,000-pixel RGB+IR Metering Sensor for improved precision</strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II has an amazing iSA Intelligent Subject Analysis system that employs an independent RGB light sensor with approximately 150,000-pixel resolution. This sensor enables Canon’s intelligent Tracking and Recognition system (iTR AF) that detects and tracks subjects, automatically switching the AF point to optimize tracking. With new tracking algorithms tailored to recognize faces and colors, this system serves as a brilliant foundation to the EOS 7D Mark II’s AF system.</p>
<p><strong>Anti-flicker shooting</strong>

The EOS 7D Mark II features a new flicker detection system that not only alerts the user in the viewfinder, but with the camera’s Anti-Flicker Shooting function can compensate for flickering light sources, taking shots only at peak light volume. This feature is useful for minimizing disparities in color and exposure, especially during continuous shooting in sub-optimal lighting situations.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
```


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 15, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> *Anti-flicker shooting*
> 
> The EOS 7D Mark II features a new flicker detection system that not only alerts the user in the viewfinder, but with the camera’s Anti-Flicker Shooting function can compensate for flickering light sources, taking shots only at peak light volume. This feature is useful for minimizing disparities in color and exposure, especially during continuous shooting in sub-optimal lighting situations.</p>



I find this super interesting as this is a huge problem for me when shooting indoor sports in really awful lighting. I hope to see this feature on the next 5D model.

[quote author=DPReview]
v The EOS 7D Mark II is compatible with the optional WFT-E7A *Version 2* Wireless File Transmitter.
[/quote]

So maybe Canon will release a new wireless transmitter that doesn't suck so much.


----------



## Harry Muff (Sep 15, 2014)

So, umm... what's special about this upgrade?


Seriously, I'm not excited about this camera.


----------



## dufflover (Sep 15, 2014)

Well in this release they say it's a new 20.2MP sensor. So I suppose it can't be _exactly_ the same lol.


----------



## Northstar (Sep 15, 2014)

This camera is going to be a big hit...I might sell my 5d3 to buy this.


----------



## lo lite (Sep 15, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>The Canon EOS 7D Mark II digital SLR camera is designed to meet the demands of photographers and videographers who want a camera that can provide a wide range of artistic opportunities. With a winning combination of cutting-edge operations and a robust, ergonomic design, it is optimized to make even the most challenging photography simple and easy. The EOS 7D Mark II features a refined APS-C sized 20.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor with Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors for gorgeous imagery. It shoots up to 10 frames per second at ISOs ranging from 100–16000 (expandable to H1: 25600, H2: 51200), has a 65-point* all cross-type AF system and features Canon’s amazing Dual Pixel CMOS AF for brilliant Live-View AF. It has dual card slots for both CF and SD cards, USB 3.0 connectivity and even has built-in GPS** for easy location tagging, automatically. Compatible with an ever-expanding collection of EF and EF-S lenses plus a host of EOS accessories, the EOS 7D Mark II is an ideal tool for creative and ambitious photography.</p>



I started this page at wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_7D_Mark_II

Feel free to extend and improve it but please don't copy copyrighted material into it!


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 15, 2014)

Sounds like a great camera.  Aside from the "new" sensor that can be the same as 70D. :


----------



## Tom W (Sep 15, 2014)

I'm anxious to see what the new sensor has to offer. Hopefully, it's got more latitude than the 18 mpx it replaces.


----------



## zim (Sep 15, 2014)

Intelligent Viewfinder II


Maybe I'm reading too much into this part but that sounds like a digital overlay ie the start of a hybrid VF ?


----------



## sanj (Sep 15, 2014)

Congratulation CR guy. Your forecast came true!


----------



## Vossie (Sep 15, 2014)

Although the specs may not appeal to all of us, I think the price point is not bad. This may become a nice 2nd body to my 5D3; the button lay-out appears to be identical, so 5D3 shooters can rely on their muscle memory.


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

That camera is exactly what the the 7D was 5 years ago. A solid action camera, standing above all other APS-C DSLR cameras!  I believe this will truly be a worthy successor to the legendary 7D. And for 1800$ that is absolutely great!!! This will find its way into the bags of many serious amateurs and pros as well! I'm really tempted to buy one for myself, especially because of the AF...


----------



## Tom W (Sep 15, 2014)

And this from Canon USA:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/eos_7dmkii_feature


----------



## sanj (Sep 15, 2014)

Sorry, I missed seeing any adjective like 'new' regarding the sensor. Can anyone point that out to me pls?

The EOS 7D Mark II has a newly designed 20.2 Megapixel sensor that delivers high-resolution image files with stunning detail and impressive clarity. Optimized for low-light shooting, the EOS 7D Mark II’s sensor captures images at up to ISO 16000 (expandable to H1: 25600, H2: 51200) with remarkably low noise, thanks to its improved, higher sensitivity design. Phenomenal for stills, the EOS 7D Mark II’s sensor is equally up to the task for movies, delivering Full HD capture even at rates of up to 60p.

That could mean anything designed earlier. It does not mention that this camera has a new sensor. Would I be correct in my assumption?


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

The complainig will soon commence on this thread. But I am looking forward to this. I dont think there will be another action DSLR that comes close... And that is exactly what this is built for


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

From Australia:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152698112494763


----------



## Orangutan (Sep 15, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Sounds like a great camera.  Aside from the "new" sensor that can be the same as 70D. :



"_EOS 7D Mark II features a refined APS-C sized 20.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor with Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors_"

Presumably it's the same basic design, with minor revisions. It's likely to be slightly better than the 70D, if at all. There may have been significant re-engineering needed to allow higher-speed readout.

Remember, folks, this is an optimized sports/bird camera. It's not optimized for studio or landscape.


----------



## dufflover (Sep 15, 2014)

Some of the random snippets I'm seeing is that the sensor is "new" in that it might have tweaked microlenses, probably the AA filter again, etc. I don't think the basic design of the electronics would have changed much though, which is what a lot of us were talking about with read noise and so on. Sounds like it'll improve on the "crispness" of the 70D pics which I find are slightly improved on the older 7D/18MP sensor (I'd say my experience follows Brian's testing at TDP with 7D vs EOS-M vs 70D). That said, I already find my 70D compared quite well in that particular area of image quality.


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 15, 2014)

Tom W said:


> And this from Canon USA:
> 
> http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/eos_7dmkii_feature



Oh man, that demonstration of the anti-flicker is awesome. That feature alone will put Canon head and shoulders above everyone else for indoor sports.


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

Wow, image buffer is improved over the already excellent 7D. 1090 JPEG/Large, *31 RAW*, 19 RAW+JPEG/L.




> 20.2 Megapixel CMOS Sensor
> Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors
> The EOS 7D Mark II’s 20.2 Megapixel sensor works seamlessly with a pair of
> DIGIC 6 Image Processors for supercharged processing across the board. These
> ...


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 15, 2014)

Just had a quick read through the DPR of the camera; it looks like one hell of a beast for the money. So it has come in under the RRP of the 6D as I thought it would, and this suggests to me that Canon are pretty confident in their FF premium on price. 

Also interesting that DPR refer to the Dual pixel technology as effectively 40 mp........I seem to recall someone here on CR vehemently disputing this.


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

I just read the best thing about this camera over at DPreview!!! It's got spot metering linked to the AF point!!! I've been hoping for that and thought they would never build this into a non-1-series camera!!! I love it!!


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

so now this incremental updated 7D MK2 is out can we talk about the 5D MK IV please...


----------



## TeenTog (Sep 15, 2014)

wow. I was gonna buy the 70D, but I might drop $700 more and get this....... the price for what you get is ridiculous. Kind of surprising actually considering that this is Canon we're talking about.


----------



## Orangutan (Sep 15, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> so now this incremental updated 7D MK2 is out can we talk about the 5D MK IV please...



Except for the sensor, it doesn't look incremental to me: it looks a lot like an APS-C version of the 1DX.


----------



## wheatie (Sep 15, 2014)

I have a Canon 5D Mark III and I'm wondering besides the "full frame" sensor, just why would anyone spend more money on the 5dm3 and not buy the 7dm2? the 7DM2 seems like a great camera in every way...


----------



## zim (Sep 15, 2014)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> Wow, image buffer is improved over the already excellent 7D. 1090 JPEG/Large, *31 RAW*, 19 RAW+JPEG/L.



+1 thought the same then remembered... for 3 seconds! a well swings and roundabouts

EV -3 (for center point only) looks like standard issue now.
The spread of points looks huge to me covering thirds in both orientations?


----------



## Drum (Sep 15, 2014)

so who's going to be first with the should I buy the 7d2 vs the 6d vs the 5d3 now that there is a camera to actually talk about?


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

You have to watch that "Cello" short film they shot with the 7D and several L lenses... if THAT is what ISO 3200 on this camera is going to look like... holy shit!!


----------



## Vgramatikov (Sep 15, 2014)

As wildlife photographer there is a lot of important key features.

-Optimized for low-light shooting sensor
-High speed continuous shooting up to 10.0 fps allows you to capture fast action.
-31 raw buffer
-shutter designed for 200,000 cycles
-65-point* all cross-type AF system for high-performance, accurate subject tracking with EV -3 sensitivity (center -point) for focusing in extreme low-light conditions.
-EV-3 AF
-This sensor enables Canon’s intelligent Tracking and Recognition system (iTR AF) that detects and tracks -subjects, automatically switching the AF point to optimize tracking

This think is as 1dx with smaller sensor.....


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

The 6D had an introductory MSRP of US$2000, but now retails for around $1500 (and is selling well at this price), I expect this model would sell extremely well when it finally settles at around ~$1300, considering the competition in its price bracket like the Sammy NX1 and even the D750.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

Drum said:


> so who's going to be first with the should I buy the 7d2 vs the 6d vs the 5d3 now that there is a camera to actually talk about?



I don't know why anyone would have this debate honestly. It's an $1800 action camera.. and a badass one at that from what it seems. The 6D is for art and portraiture. The 5D is $3300. Love my 7 and 6. Two completely different cameras.


----------



## Khalai (Sep 15, 2014)

zim said:


> Mark D5 TEAM II said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, image buffer is improved over the already excellent 7D. 1090 JPEG/Large, *31 RAW*, 19 RAW+JPEG/L.
> ...



Or 1090 JPEGs, that's quite insane actually


----------



## dufflover (Sep 15, 2014)

wheatie said:


> I have a Canon 5D Mark III and I'm wondering besides the "full frame" sensor, just why would anyone spend more money on the 5dm3 and not buy the 7dm2? the 7DM2 seems like a great camera in every way...



Well think about it how people buy the 6D despite how obviously gimped it was so that it was almost just a Rebel with an FF sensor.

i.e. can't really say "besides the Full Frame sensor" hehe. Though I agree with the prev comment; this is like the opposite; 1D-X features but without the sensor benefits.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 15, 2014)

wheatie said:


> I have a Canon 5D Mark III and I'm wondering besides the "full frame" sensor, just why would anyone spend more money on the 5dm3 and not buy the 7dm2? the 7DM2 seems like a great camera in every way...


Welcome to the forum.  Yes, 7D Mark ii does everything equal or better than 5D Mark III, with the exception of the full frame sensor at high ISO. :


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> You have to watch that "Cello" short film they shot with the 7D and several L lenses... if THAT is what ISO 3200 on this camera is going to look like... holy S___!!



Could you post the link please?


----------



## Waka (Sep 15, 2014)

My camera bag was stolen last week with my 7D in it :'(
I'd be more than happy if my insurance company lets me buy the 7D mk II.


----------



## docsmith (Sep 15, 2014)

Also, video with Scott Kelby they do call it a "Brand New 20.2 MP sensor..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M03hu1diCqE&feature=youtu.be

Plus...digital level...in the view finder....love that.


----------



## ericski (Sep 15, 2014)

Is "EV -3 AF" another way of saying lenses can auto focus at f/8? E.g. will I be able to use auto focus with my 100-400 and 1.4x extender?


----------



## zim (Sep 15, 2014)

Cello
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/eos_7dmkii_feature_hd


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Sep 15, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Aside from the "new" sensor that can be the same as 70D. :



Good - it's an excellent sensor!


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

Where is the AF capability at f/8, all the specs and preview pages I have read so far have not mentioned this.


----------



## bseitz234 (Sep 15, 2014)

tayassu said:


> I just read the best thing about this camera over at DPreview!!! It's got spot metering linked to the AF point!!! I've been hoping for that and thought they would never build this into a non-1-series camera!!! I love it!!



I'm so glad someone else is this excited about this. I never thought it would happen either, but that is AWESOME. 

Was going to sell my backup 7d, move primary to backup, and add a 7d2 as primary. 

Now might have to sell both and buy two...


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 15, 2014)

tayassu said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > You have to watch that "Cello" short film they shot with the 7D and several L lenses... if THAT is what ISO 3200 on this camera is going to look like... holy S___!!
> ...


http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/eos_7dmkii_feature 

In HD VIDEO section.


----------



## lol (Sep 15, 2014)

I don't see the f/8 AF anywhere, but it has the rest of the rumoured AF bits, including the metering system. Really want to play with this!


----------



## sanj (Sep 15, 2014)

Yes, the spread of AF points is great.


----------



## bbasiaga (Sep 15, 2014)

I am shocked and pleasantly surprised at the feature set and price point of this camera. Wow!

-Brian


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Sep 15, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> wheatie said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Canon 5D Mark III and I'm wondering besides the "full frame" sensor, just why would anyone spend more money on the 5dm3 and not buy the 7dm2? the 7DM2 seems like a great camera in every way...
> ...



The original 7D was an amazing camera with a mediocre sensor...the 5DII was a mediocre camera with an amazing sensor...I'm wondering how much has changed with the 7DII. 
The 5DIII's IQ is far better than just being a better chip. It's iso abilities and per pixel sharpness are in a different league to any of Canon's 1.6x cameras. Hopefully the 7DII can close some of that gap.


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 15, 2014)

I have to say that it looks far more like a sure thing now that it's real, and not just something speculated upon by us rumourmonglers.
Neuro was right in his ideas about the "jogging" lever around the base of the joystick.
USB 3.0 is about time.
But that battery - looks like this beast will need more juice if the battery "only" lasts for 670 shots. More grips sold shortly...
I was not too far off on my guess on the pricing. And I think it will sell in pretty good numbers.

My personal complaints about the 7D Mark II will continue to be the SD slot, and I will, probably, add the battery to that. On the upside: I don't see me owning it in the near future, so I won't have to complain and whine about it.

Edit: Tossed a question out to someone that have had the chance to test it slightly. Lets see if I can get some answers...


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> You have to watch that "Cello" short film they shot with the 7D and several L lenses... if THAT is what ISO 3200 on this camera is going to look like... holy S___!!



+1
That ISO 3200 looks amazing!


----------



## bseitz234 (Sep 15, 2014)

DominoDude said:


> Neuro was right in his ideas about the "jogging" lever around the base of the joystick.



I missed what Neuro said, and haven't seen anything else in this release material. Anyone care to link / explain it? Thanks in advance!


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 15, 2014)

[quote author=Imaging Resource]
Also new for the 7D-series are interchangeable focusing screens. The default screen is calibrated to display approximately a f/5.6 depth of field, however for precise manual focusing with f/2.8 lenses or faster, a Super Precision Matte screen is available as an optional accessory that will show the true super-thin depths of field through the viewfinder.
[/quote]

Looks like Canon is bringing back interchangeable focusing screens, nice.


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

Woohoo! Just confirmed, AF at f/8 at the center point and interchangeable focusing screens even with the transparent LCD overlay!!! Infinite JPEG frames with UDMA7 CF cards!



> AF System/ Points
> 
> 65 cross-type AF points (Centre point is an extra sensitive dual-cross-type point at f/2.8,* cross-type at f/8* and sensitive to -3EV) (11)





> Focusing Screen
> 
> Interchangeable (2 types, optional).
> 
> ...





> Continuous Shooting
> 
> "Max. Approx. 10fps. (speed maintained for up to an infinite number of JPEGs or 31 RAW images (1) (2) (10) with UDMA7 card.




Sauce: http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_7d_mark_ii/specifications.html


----------



## bseitz234 (Sep 15, 2014)

DominoDude said:


> But that battery - looks like this beast will need more juice if the battery "only" lasts for 670 shots. More grips sold shortly...



I thought I saw 800 somewhere- might've been B&H's spec comparison to the 7d. Regardless, I got about 2000 on Saturday and only went through half an LP-E6 before swapping it out- that's about 4x as many shots as Canon claims for that battery in the 7d. If that holds true, I won't worry too much about the new battery...


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> DominoDude said:
> 
> 
> > Neuro was right in his ideas about the "jogging" lever around the base of the joystick.
> ...



That switch at the joystick is made to toggle through different AF area modes. I asked about this in two other threads and he was presuming this.


----------



## l_d_allan (Sep 15, 2014)

*Reaction of still 'tog non-sports-shooter to official 7d2 announcement: Yawn *

Maybe videographers aren't underwhelmed? 

Maybe BIF or outdoor sport 'togs aren't underwhelmed?

I'm speculating that the 7d2 has a "mild refresh" of the sensor in the 70d ... and I hope I'm mistaken when actual in-depth reviews are available.

According to SensorGen.info, the DR of the 70d is 10.9 EV. That's actually LESS than the 7d or T3i with 18 mpix sensors and 2009 technology.

"Best of breed" APS-C sensors from Sony range from 13+ to 14 EV (for older D7000 which may be a misprint?)

I will admit that the AF system of the 7d2 looks very impressive for outdoor sports, but I'm not that much of a "sports shooter". The sports I do take tend to be indoor basketball.

I wouldn't consider the 7d2 to be all that suitable for indoor sports action ... based on it not having good enough high ISO. I again hope I'm proven wrong when in-depth reviews are available.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes 7d2 video technology and AF to "filter down" to the Rebel line.

My 2¢:
• If I owned a Rebel with one or two EF-S lenses, and
• was seriously thinking of upgrading to full-frame,
• I'd give very serious though to abandoning Canon and going to Nikon or Sony full-frames

YMMV


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Sep 15, 2014)

docsmith said:


> Plus...digital level...in the view finder....love that.



70D has that.


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

sanj said:


> Yes, the spread of AF points is great.


+1000
Saw it over at Scott Kelby, could not believe it!


----------



## bseitz234 (Sep 15, 2014)

tayassu said:


> bseitz234 said:
> 
> 
> > DominoDude said:
> ...



Thanks! I guess I never really had a problem with AF-point button, then MFn to cycle through area modes... but at least there's an answer!


----------



## l_d_allan (Sep 15, 2014)

Tom W said:


> I'm anxious to see what the new sensor has to offer. Hopefully, it's got more latitude than the 18 mpx it replaces.



Same here. My speculation is that the sensor will turn out to be a mildly refreshed 70d. 

According to SensorGen.info, the  70d at 10.9 ER actually has LESS DR than the 18 mpix sensor in the 7d and T2i (with 2009 technology)


----------



## gregorywood (Sep 15, 2014)

My strategy remains unchanged...I bought my 7D in 2011 and it has, and continues to serve me well. There is nothing (for me) earth shattering about the Mk II. I picked up a 6D earlier this year as a companion and backup to the 7D as the two cameras are good at different things.

When the 5D Mk IV comes out, I may re-evaluate my bodies, but for now, I'm set. I feel like I have what I need at this point in my lifecycle as a photographer. 

Now, back to strategizing my next lens purchase...


----------



## Khnnielsen (Sep 15, 2014)

Many of the video guys will properly complain that they didn't get the 4k beast they hoped for.
As a videographer I am actually excited about this camera. It doesn't matter much to me, that I can shoot video in a pitch black room at 200000 iso. If this can deliver good video at 3200 iso, then they have my attention.
It is also nice to see that they have done something with the file formats and frame rates.


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 15, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> DominoDude said:
> 
> 
> > But that battery - looks like this beast will need more juice if the battery "only" lasts for 670 shots. More grips sold shortly...
> ...



Yeah, Canon's battery life estimates are extremely conservative. I shot an event yesterday with a gripped 5D3 and after 6,000 shots both batteries still had 70% in the tank.


----------



## bardamu (Sep 15, 2014)

Very pleased to read on DPreview that the camera takes interchangeable focus screens. Makes it more appealing to me for use in macro work. Can see myself getting this camera.

Looks like all the mini-1DX hype was not far off the mark actually. That shutter at 10fps sounds great.


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 15, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> DominoDude said:
> 
> 
> > Neuro was right in his ideas about the "jogging" lever around the base of the joystick.
> ...



It's used for changing the focus area/method. Instead of using the button combination (Magnify btn + M-Fn) to go through the various options, now you use this lever.


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

Very nice product page here with many sample photos (all at reduced sizes though):

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_7d_mark_ii/index.html


Nice that the BG-E16 has the joystick as well, but what is that lever/switch below it?


----------



## mdmphoto (Sep 15, 2014)

Damn. Having talked myself into eschewing crop-sensors since being seduced by the 6D I'm now overwhelmed by the af and fps specs in particular; but just most of what Canon's packed into the 7d II at the same old price. My only salvation is if the IQ/low noise IQ is significantly less than what I can do with the 6D. On the other hand, that will also lead me to the 5D III-IV, probably. I'm sure I'll NEVER be able to behave myself enough for the wife to go for a 1D - anything. There's always something...


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

Keith_Reeder said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > Aside from the "new" sensor that can be the same as 70D. :
> ...



You keep repeating that but it´s still wrong.

As you where told already it´s a sensor that can keep up with the competition but that´s it. 

It´s far from excellent.


----------



## simongking (Sep 15, 2014)

Pre-ordered can't wait!


----------



## l_d_allan (Sep 15, 2014)

Vgramatikov said:


> As wildlife photographer there is a lot of important key features.


Agree, as long as the wildlife weren't moving around much in dim light.


> think is as 1dx with smaller sensor.....



If the 1Dx had so-so high ISO from 2009 technology, and lower DR than the 7d's 18 mpix sensor (according to SensorGen.info)


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 15, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> DominoDude said:
> 
> 
> > But that battery - looks like this beast will need more juice if the battery "only" lasts for 670 shots. More grips sold shortly...
> ...



The 800 is the number for the old 7D, 670 is the number for the Mark II.
*nods* I've turned the review time to "Off", and I get 1200+ shots out of mine on a regular shooting session. But still that rating suggests that you will get roughly 16% less shots out of your battery before needing to change or recharge.


----------



## cerealito (Sep 15, 2014)

Man I wish I was rich 8)


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Sep 15, 2014)

I wonder if the uncompressed HDMI out for video is really uncompressed.


----------



## archiea (Sep 15, 2014)

tayassu said:


> I just read the best thing about this camera over at DPreview!!! It's got spot metering linked to the AF point!!! I've been hoping for that and thought they would never build this into a non-1-series camera!!! I love it!!



Doesn't the 5D do something similar? Page 171 in the manual, where when metering is set to evaluative, during exposure lock, the metering is linked to the AF point.


----------



## photomojo (Sep 15, 2014)

*Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*

This camera looks nice but I'm still in disbelief that there isn't an "L" series lens that is comparable to the ever-useful 24-70 or 24-105 focal lengths that I use on my full sensor bodies. Am I missing something or is this camera only for those who want to shoot with long lenses (sports and wildlife)?


----------



## Orangutan (Sep 15, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> Keith_Reeder said:
> 
> 
> > ajfotofilmagem said:
> ...



Please explain, and be specific. We already know the Sonikon sensors are better at low ISO. For sports this is not an issue, and this is a sports camera. Now please explain.


----------



## zenja27 (Sep 15, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stY7CC2GOE4

"...that is not the same sensor found in 70D"


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



photomojo said:


> This camera looks nice but I'm still in disbelief that there isn't an "L" series lens that is comparable to the ever-useful 24-70 or 24-105 focal lengths that I use on my full sensor bodies. Am I missing something or is this camera only for those who want to shoot with long lenses (sports and wildlife)?



it´s sure not for me.

i don´t need the better AF.. all other stuff are nice but i can live without it and save my money.

let´s wait for the 5D MK IV.


----------



## Woody (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*

So, the same old same old 70D sensor?


----------



## l_d_allan (Sep 15, 2014)

*Didn't see "Cello video" having front-to-back follow focus.*



zim said:


> Cello
> http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/eos_7dmkii_feature_hd



Thanks for the link.

I'm mostly ignorant about video, but in that sample video, I didn't see what I consider to be a real challenge to follow focus ... a person running diagonally through the scene towards the camera, from upper left in the viewfinder to directly in front of the camera, and then running away from the camera to the upper right.

The movement of the dancers seemed mostly side to side, rather than front to back.

That challenge would be like a baseball video from a seat just behind first base, and the batter running to beat out a bunt from home plate to first base. 

I wonder how the 70d does on such a challenge, and how the 7d2 will do. 

Perhaps even more challenging ... tracking a single runner among multiple runners, like at an outdoor soccer game?

And more challenging? Indoor sports with multiple players running around, like basketball action?


----------



## M-dash (Sep 15, 2014)

As a sports shooter I was hoping the 7D2 was going to be an APS-C equivalent of the 1Dx which it appears to be (would love 1Dx but can't justify the cost or weight). It would reduce the weight of my sports outfit.

The one thing I need to know is how good the noise is. I am not satisfied with my 1Ds3 even for sport use above ISO800, my Fuji X-T1 (my travel camera, no good for sport) is much cleaner and usable at all ISO (at least up to 3200). If 7D2 is the same as the 70D I will have doubts until I can borrow one and run my own tests. Unfortunately the DPReview tests do not include any 1D noise samples for comparison


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

Orangutan said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Keith_Reeder said:
> ...



sonys sensor are better as you say yourself.
it "excels" canon sensors... therefor the sony sensor is "excellent".



> For sports this is not an issue, and this is a sports camera.



a better sensor does not care what you shoot. 
you may only shoot 500pixel images for facebook then all sensors are good enough.


----------



## Orangutan (Sep 15, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > We already know the Sonikon sensors are better *at low ISO*.
> ...



Yes, actually it does matter. The measurable advantages of Sonikon sensors disappear around ISO800-1600, and Canon sensors take a slight lead after that. Sports are typically shot at higher ISOs.


----------



## eLroberto (Sep 15, 2014)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> Where is the AF capability at f/8, all the specs and preview pages I have read so far have not mentioned this.





lol said:


> I don't see the f/8 AF anywhere, but it has the rest of the rumoured AF bits, including the metering system. Really want to play with this!




The Canon 7D Mark II introduces a brand new autofocus (AF) module inspired by the professional level AF system in the Canon 1 DX. It features 65 AF points spread across a significant portion of the frame, with especially wide horizontal coverage. All of these AF points are cross-type (when using lenses with a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or faster), with the center AF point capable of high-precision, dual cross-type focusing with wider aperture (f/2.8 and faster) lenses. Additionally, the center point is capable of focusing with lenses (or lens/teleconverter combinations) as slow as f/8, as well as down to EV -3. This gives that center point a 1 EV advantage in low light compared to the 1D X and 5D Mark III.

Source: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-7d-mark-ii/6


----------



## Ruined (Sep 15, 2014)

Woohoo interchangeable focusing screens, Canon is listening!


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

Orangutan said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



from what i have read the sony or nikon aps-c sensors are better at high iso too.



> This is a good result for the D7100. With four extra Megapixels packed into essentially the same sensor area you'd think it would fall behind a little in high ISO noise, but in my tests here the opposite is true. That said, we are talking about pixel peeping at 100% here, and under pretty extreme circumstances too - after all, there's few people who'd turn off all noise reduction before applying a high level of sharpening to their RAW files. If you processed the files from both cameras with more normal settings, the results would actually be pretty similar. But it is interesting none-the-less to see what's happening under the hood.
> 
> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_70D/RAW_noise.shtml



and it´s still better when it´s better at low iso and equal at high iso.
you deny that?


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 15, 2014)

M-dash said:


> my Fuji X-T1 (my travel camera, no good for sport) is much cleaner and usable at all ISO (at least up to 3200).



I thought the same thing until I noticed some strange differences with the X-T1 during my DualISO test. Basically, the ISO number Fuji shows are complete BS. Try taking a shot of a grey card or something similar at ISO 3200 for the X-T1 and a Canon or Nikon camera and try to match the histograms. See how the shutter speeds compare. I've found that the Fuji pretty consistently requires 2/3-1 stop more shutter speed to get the same exposure. Also, I'm pretty sure Fuji's doing some pretty heavy handed chroma noise reduction in camera on the RAW files.


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 15, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> tayassu said:
> 
> 
> > bseitz234 said:
> ...



It has been quite ok for me as well, but I always needed to change my gripping a little before I could engage my thumb followed by the index finger. This could be a more smooth and instinctive way at least for those using BBF - thumb only.


----------



## Bob Howland (Sep 15, 2014)

wheatie said:


> I have a Canon 5D Mark III and I'm wondering besides the "full frame" sensor, just why would anyone spend more money on the 5dm3 and not buy the 7dm2? the 7DM2 seems like a great camera in every way...


I have a 5D3 and 7D and find them a great pairing. The 5D3 is the indoor/winter camera and the 7D is the outdoor/summer camera. As good as the 7D2 is, I can't imagine it being as good as the 5D3 at ISO 6400 or even ISO 1600. I just hope the 7D2 has a proper auto ISO implementation in Manual mode.

I'm actually more excited about the new Sigma 150-600 S lens.


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Didn't see "Cello video" having front-to-back follow focus.*



l_d_allan said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Cello
> ...


Then you can have a look at this: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152698112494763


----------



## l_d_allan (Sep 15, 2014)

GMCPhotographics said:


> The original 7D was an amazing camera with a mediocre sensor


Mediocre by 2014 standards?

IIRC, the 2009 18 mpix 7d sensor was considered excellent, and exceeded expectations. I recall the DPR article about the 50d being underwhelming because the per-pixel IQ was less than the 10 mpx of the 40d. DPR declared the "end of the DSLR megapixel war" since the 15 mpix of the 50d wasn't really that much better, if any, from the 40d.

And then the 7d was released, with better per-pixel IQ than the 40d or 50d ... I really don't think people in 2009 considered the 7d's sensor to be "mediocre", except compared to the full frame 5d.

And then the Sony Exmor sensor started showing up in Nikons, like their excellent D7000.



> ...the 5DII was a mediocre camera with an amazing sensor


I'll agree that the AF of the 5d2 was underwhelming.

However, I haven't noticed the kind of "feeding frenzy" to pre-order a 5d2 on any other camera announcement. People were paying significantly over MSRP to get a NIB 5d2 on eBay.


----------



## Orangutan (Sep 15, 2014)

Orangutan said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



Correction: I just took a quick look at DxO, and what I said is true for FF, but Sonikon crops do maintain an advantage at higher ISOs. The basic point holds, though: for a sports camera, the 70D sensor will not be a hindrance. I'd rather have well-focused shots from a 70D sensor than miss the moment with a D7100 sensor.


----------



## Besisika (Sep 15, 2014)

Khnnielsen said:


> Many of the video guys will properly complain that they didn't get the 4k beast they hoped for.
> As a videographer I am actually excited about this camera. It doesn't matter much to me, that I can shoot video in a pitch black room at 200000 iso. If this can deliver good video at 3200 iso, then they have my attention.
> It is also nice to see that they have done something with the file formats and frame rates.


That is right, I am one of them. I need 4K. It simply depends on your need.
In general though, I am not complaining about this camera at all. Looking at what it can do and the price, it is hard to complain.
Winter is coming in Canada, and my outdoor activities are limited. I can wait for further news about full frame with similar capabilities + 4K. The waiting allows to save.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

Harry Muff said:


> So, umm... what's special about this upgrade?



This is *exactly* the baby 1DX people have been asking for - fast, great focusing, but at a low price, in a small size, and with a high pixel density. Call it a 1DX with built-in non-removable optically-perfect 1.6x teleconverter for 1/4 the price of a 1DX.


----------



## aj1575 (Sep 15, 2014)

The thread is already exploding!

The camera looks great. Not much that has been left out by Canon; there is only one question, how "new" is the sensor? But anyway, for those who don't care about dxomark scores, the sensor will be good enough.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

dilbert said:


> In the text there are bits like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Me, either. But I suspect it's a footnote that you don't get 65 points with all lenses. Similarly, with the 1D X/5DIII's 61 AF points, you get only 47 points with the 800/5.6L and only 33 points with the 180L Macro.


----------



## icassell (Sep 15, 2014)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> Woohoo! Just confirmed, AF at f/8 at the center point and interchangeable focusing screens even with the transparent LCD overlay!!! Infinite JPEG frames with UDMA7 CF cards!
> 
> 
> 
> > That clinched it! Pre-ordered!


----------



## Renzokuken (Sep 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > In the text there are bits like this:
> ...


"

May I ask? What's the science and logic behind this??

If the DSLR have 65 points hardware wise, what physical limitations contributed to the reduction of working AF points?


----------



## Dylan777 (Sep 15, 2014)

Solid body


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

The asterisk/¹ is: Number of available AF points, cross-type points and Dual Cross-type AF points vary depending on the lens.

Another thing I noticed is the digital compass:



> Built-in GPS and digital compass
> The camera incorporates a range of GPS functions, similar to Canon’s external GPS Receiver GP-E2. Images and movie clips can be geotagged with the exact global position of capture, and thanks to a new time setting, also logged with co-ordinated universal time.
> *The EOS 7D Mark II is also the first EOS camera to feature a built-in digital compass which features a triple-axes geomagnetic and acceleration sensor, enabling photographers to record longitude, latitude, elevation and compass direction.*


----------



## l_d_allan (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Didn't see "Cello video" having front-to-back follow focus.*



Eldar said:


> Then you can have a look at this: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152698112494763


 Thanks. Impressive, although I'm not informed enough to really know what to look for.


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 15, 2014)

Renzokuken said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



The cross-type sensors need at least an aperture of f/4 to get an accurate measurement. Not sure why the 180L is so limited though.


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 15, 2014)

Got feedback on how noise is perceived. "No apparent banding." That's a quick testing in an office environment. Test shots also at ISO 51200. Someone who has taken an abundance of shots on 1D X (and with a number of other professional level cameras) thinks it is close to the AF-performance of 1D X.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

Renzokuken said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I expect it's due to the apparent aperture of those lenses being a bit smaller. Macro lenses suffer from that at close focus distances, which is why they're generally 'bumped down' in AF group (e.g. the 100/2.8 macros aren't grouped with other f/2.8 lenses, but with slower lenses). I suspect Canon empirically tests lenses (or simulates such tests), and if the outer columns of AF points aren't reliable enough, they disable them in firmware. 




raptor3x said:


> The cross-type sensors need at least an aperture of f/4 to get an accurate measurement. Not sure why the 180L is so limited though.



The f/4 crosses are an f/4 line plus an f/5.6 line; with most f/5.6 lenses you have all 61 points, but just the central 21 act as crosses.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 15, 2014)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> > *The EOS 7D Mark II is also the first EOS camera to feature a built-in digital compass which features a triple-axes geomagnetic and acceleration sensor, enabling photographers to record longitude, latitude, elevation and compass direction.*



What will an acceleration sensor give a photographer? Is it something more handy for a videographer?

I am also wondering how a internal passive non-gps type sensor can enable photographers to record geocoords with any accuracy?


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Woody said:


> So, the same old same old 70D sensor?



No, it is not - stated clearly in multiple places. New, more sensitive photo diodes, more transmissive Bayer dyes, and the possibility of better A-to-D and processing. Scott Kelby said in his video that it produces the cleanest high ISO images he's ever seen from a crop sensor dSLR. Now, given his past, that might be hyperbole, but since he's unquestionably used the 70D, that means this one should be better.


----------



## Woody (Sep 15, 2014)

Come on, where are the pitch black lens cap shots at ISO 100 and 16000? ;D


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

Another 1-series feature that gets to be included:



> Back to the action at hand, and Alessandro’s thoughts on the viewfinder. A 100% field-of-view ensures critical accuracy for tricky compositions and an electronic overlay – new for the EOS 7D Mark II – allowed him to see the focus points selected. There are 65 cross-type focus points on the EOS 7D Mark II, compared to 19 found on the EOS 7D it replaces. “But you know, because I am old-fashioned, I like to shoot Manual and with just single-point AF,” he laughs. “However, I can see exactly what is happening in the viewfinder, which is clear and bright just like my [EOS] 5D Mark III and which *shows in red the active focus points as I am tracking the subject*. I can tell you one thing: this camera is more advanced than me!”


----------



## whothafunk (Sep 15, 2014)

I reckon release date hasn't been announced? How many months will we have to wait?


----------



## soccerkingpilot (Sep 15, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> What will an acceleration sensor give a photographer? Is it something more handy for a videographer?
> 
> I am also wondering how a internal passive non-gps type sensor can enable photographers to record geocoords with any accuracy?



The acceleration sensor is often used for the electronic level I think.


----------



## Northbird (Sep 15, 2014)

Very nice feature set for use as action sports and birding camera body. The initial price is lower than I anticipated. And it looks like it will autofocus at F8. Regardless of the naysayers, the original 7D is a GREAT camera and still cranks out wonderful images. 

This camera will sell well and I will likely buy one to replace my current 7D. Looking forward to detailed reviews.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Sep 15, 2014)

Any news on the camera's IQ performance yet?


----------



## lo lite (Sep 15, 2014)

Vgramatikov said:


> As wildlife photographer there is a lot of important key features.
> 
> -Optimized for low-light shooting sensor
> -High speed continuous shooting up to 10.0 fps allows you to capture fast action.



now you finally can machinegun wildlife!

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22565.msg434314;topicseen#msg434314

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22582.msg434391


----------



## Powder Portraits (Sep 15, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> I reckon release date hasn't been announced? How many months will we have to wait?



Amazon states a release date of 11/17


----------



## pedro (Sep 15, 2014)

Given the time left, if should be ready for Christmas sales...they won't deprive themselves from high sale rates due to the seasonal rush for presents...this time, it requires differently sized stockings for daddy...;-)


----------



## Krob78 (Sep 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > In the text there are bits like this:
> ...





> Me, either. But I suspect it's a footnote that you don't get 65 points with all lenses. Similarly, with the 1D X/5DIII's 61 AF points, you get only 47 points with the 800/5.6L and only 33 points with the 180L Macro.


Exactly, it does mention it on Canon's website...


----------



## lo lite (Sep 15, 2014)

Vgramatikov said:


> -This sensor enables Canon’s intelligent Tracking and Recognition system (iTR AF) that detects and tracks -subjects, automatically switching the AF point to optimize tracking



To me that feature is the best thing about the whole camera. I usually use the center AF point to focus and then recompose. I know this is a sloppy habit which is not completely accurate but changing AF points with the joystick is not fast enough for me. So I already fell in love with this feature when I heard that the 1D X has it. Will I buy a 7DII? No. But I am looking forward to the 5DIV to have it!


----------



## RickWagoner (Sep 15, 2014)

C-net plays with the joystick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQmNsLxtkMk


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Lee Jay said:


> Scott Kelby said in his video that it produces the cleanest high ISO images he's ever seen from a crop sensor dSLR.






scott kelby said:


> 10-frames-per-second! (Drops the mic. Walks off stage). ;-)



someone show him the NX1. 

now when it´s about tracking the 7D MK2 will be better i guess but from the FPS alone.. 15 are better than 10.


----------



## whothafunk (Sep 15, 2014)

And motherf*ckers, $1800 in US and 2000EURO ($2587) in Europe.


----------



## RickWagoner (Sep 15, 2014)

This video probably took them 5 years to make...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oia7Oj2lgGY


----------



## Krob78 (Sep 15, 2014)

Be nice if it has the "silent" mode HSS of the 5d3.. didn't notice that mentioned anywhere, it's a great benefit when shooting wildlife a bit closer... ;D


----------



## lucasjld (Sep 15, 2014)

Please don't throw stones at me...

But should I "upgrade" from my 1D Mk3 to the 7D II for sports? My sensor is 7 years old already, and 1.6x gives me more reach.


----------



## RickWagoner (Sep 15, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGDKBcXnVps

digital camera world got it


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 15, 2014)

lucasjld said:


> But should I "upgrade" from my 1D Mk3 to the 7D II for sports? My sensor is 7 years old already, and 1.6x gives me more reach.


Although 1D Mark iii is a wonderful camera for studio and landscape, 7D Mark ii will probably do better in photos of sports and wildlife.


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> And motherf*ckers, $1800 in US and 2000EURO ($2587) in Europe.



In Germany, it is 1699€!!!  that is incredibly low! Normally it is $=€ with cameras over here!


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

tayassu said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > And motherf*ckers, $1800 in US and 2000EURO ($2587) in Europe.
> ...



LINK?


----------



## tayassu (Sep 15, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> tayassu said:
> 
> 
> > whothafunk said:
> ...



Here it is:
http://www.canon.de/About_Us/Press_Centre/Press_Releases/Consumer_News/Cameras_Accessories/The_new_EOS_7D_Mark_II.aspx


----------



## RickWagoner (Sep 15, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g4j5w-SxaU

calumet photo...ummm


----------



## canon1dxman (Sep 15, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> I reckon release date hasn't been announced? How many months will we have to wait?



Earlier today, US dealers were quoting mid November. UK dealer Park Cameras were suggesting 5-7 days but that soon vanished from their website!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Quest for Light said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Scott Kelby said in his video that it produces the cleanest high ISO images he's ever seen from a crop sensor dSLR.
> ...



LOL. In your experience, do many *static* subjects require 10-15 fps bursts? For moving subjects, I bet the 10 fps of the 7DII yields a higher keeper rate than the 15 fps of the NX1. The 7DII's hit rate will also be higher than the NX1 with native lenses longer than 200mm...it's not hard to be higher than zero.


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

tayassu said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > tayassu said:
> ...



thanks.... i read 1899 euro at my reseller. must be a typo then.


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



neuroanatomist said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



that´s not the question.

15 FPS are more than 10 FPS. it´s a fact. 

and that the canon will be better for tracking.. well i wrote that.


----------



## lucasjld (Sep 15, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> lucasjld said:
> 
> 
> > But should I "upgrade" from my 1D Mk3 to the 7D II for sports? My sensor is 7 years old already, and 1.6x gives me more reach.
> ...



I see. Isnt the 1Ds MkIII the one for studio and landscape?
Anyway, I'll have to see if the body is tiny. The 6D is way to small for my hands, the 1D fits perfectly.


----------



## stefsan (Sep 15, 2014)

On paper this looks like a real winner and I can sense that curious urge to hit the pre-order button in my fingertips. But I will resist at least until there are reliable tests of sensor performance and IQ. 

By the way: I could not find any info wether the radio flash trigger is still on board. I hope I just missed that…


----------



## sanj (Sep 15, 2014)

Jrista where are you? Still sleep? wake up!


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 15, 2014)

Powder Portraits said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > I reckon release date hasn't been announced? How many months will we have to wait?
> ...



November, 2017?

Seems about right. ;D


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Quest for Light said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Quest for Light said:
> ...



Yeah but let me know how many of those Samsungs you see on the sidelines of NFL, NCAA, NBA, NHL, MLB, Soccer, and Tiddlywinks games compared to this 7D2 a year from now. Samsung looks like it will be a good camera but Pros will stay with Canon. Again, it's all about who this rig was built for. No offense to Samsung.


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 15, 2014)

Wow, AP and PentaPhoto's Alessandro Trovati's 7D2 report is fulsome in praise, 10/10 frames in focus with no AF configuration needed:



> He continues: “I wanted to use the EOS 7D Mark II in a very different way to how I would normally work with my usual cameras (Alessandro shoots with an EOS-1D X and an EOS 5D Mark III), and instead of going through the Custom Functions to set it up I used the camera like an amateur would shoot, just to see how well it would take care of focusing and speed right out-of-the-box. I have to tell you, I was so incredibly surprised. This camera shoots at 10fps and it holds focus perfectly, even when shooting subjects that are moving fast in front of you from left to right, or right to left. The sport of ‘Calcio fiorentino’ is like a gladiator match between the players and the action happens so fast you need a very special camera to capture all the atmosphere.”






http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/alessandro_trovati_on_the_eos_7d_mark_ii.do


----------



## cosmopotter (Sep 15, 2014)

*70D Firmware Update?*

I'm hoping that some of the new features on the 7DII will trickle down to the 70D as a firmware update in the not-to-distant future. Movie-Servo and a few other features make sense.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: 70D Firmware Update?*



cosmopotter said:


> I'm hoping that some of the new features on the 7DII will trickle down to the 70D as a firmware update in the not-to-distant future. Movie-Servo and a few other features make sense.



That will depend largely on whether or not the processing power of the 70D can handle certain functions. Remember you're talking about capabilities being handled by twin digic 6, not a single 5. I also think Canon is going to keep those features locked up in the 7 for a while anyway, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

That said.... wait to see what Magic Lantern will come up with as a hack if video is your thing


----------



## weixing (Sep 15, 2014)

Hi,
Dpreview indictae that "It features 65 AF points spread across a significant portion of the frame, with especially wide horizontal coverage. All of these AF points are cross-type (when using lenses with a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or faster), with the center AF point capable of high-precision, dual cross-type focusing with wider aperture (f/2.8 and faster) lenses.". So all 65AF point is cross type when using a F5.6 or faster lens... that's sound good.

Look like I'm getting one...

Have a nice day.


----------



## Zv (Sep 15, 2014)

RickWagoner said:


> C-net plays with the joystick
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQmNsLxtkMk



Nice!


----------



## fragilesi (Sep 15, 2014)

This will be my next camera .

But only when I can afford it .

It will be interesting to see how the reviews go! Think some people are going to have to eat some humble pie by the sounds of it though.


----------



## Zv (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



neuroanatomist said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



Wonder what the buffer is like on the NX-1? Can't seem to find those specs. I mean for all we know it could freeze up and choke before it even reaches 15 frames. Any sports photographer will tell you that's nae use at all!


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Zv said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Quest for Light said:
> ...



it´s on dpreview. i have seen the specs.

when i remember correct it´s 31 frames for RAW and unlimited (well limited by card speed) for JPG.


----------



## Zv (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Quest for Light said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



And?? What is the buffer limit? Spit it out man if you know it. I can't find it.


----------



## slclick (Sep 15, 2014)

A very nice 2nd body to a 5D3.


----------



## fragilesi (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Zv said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



If what was quoted on another thread is true it was about 40 shots RAW. 77 JPEG I think. Pretty impressive.


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



Zv said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



"The extra power also gives the Samsung NX1 a maximum continuous shooting rate of 15fps for up to 77 Fine Quality JPEGs or 40 raw files, the company says."

http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2014/09/15/samsung-nx1-price-specs-release-date-confirmed/
A lot less for JPG than 7D II, but 40 [email protected]~~that's impressive


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

Has anyone seen any full size image examples? Links?


----------



## notsosem (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Didn't see "Cello video" having front-to-back follow focus.*



l_d_allan said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Cello
> ...




It's actually much better to look at the "Making of the Cello" video.. found near the bottom of this link under Advanced film-making features

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_7d_mark_ii/index.html


----------



## Khalai (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



simonxu11 said:


> "The extra power also gives the Samsung NX1 a maximum continuous shooting rate of 15fps for up to 77 Fine Quality JPEGs or 40 raw files, the company says."
> 
> http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2014/09/15/samsung-nx1-price-specs-release-date-confirmed/
> A lot less for JPG than 7D II, but 40 [email protected]~~that's impressive



Another factor is, how fast will the buffer clear for more photos. This could be another bottleneck. But the point is, Samsung is clearly looking better on paper, no doubt about that. But since Samsung doesn't have any sport oriented lenses and their AF tracking and speed is also yet to be determined, my guess is, that it will not affect any serious sport/wildlife Canon shooters at all.


----------



## wsheldon (Sep 15, 2014)

slclick said:


> A very nice 2nd body to a 5D3.



True, or a great complementary body to a 6D, filling in the functionality gaps for high FPS, AF tracking and ruggedness at close to the price of a single 5D mark III body.


----------



## Nazareth (Sep 15, 2014)

Harry Muff said:


> So, umm... what's special about this upgrade?
> 
> 
> Seriously, I'm not excited about this camera.



Supposed to be better low noise at high iso than previous version, plus another 2 megapixels (for improved image quality I assume)- A little better weather sealing, 200,000 shutter ife as compared to 150,000 of previous version I believe- Better video- better autofocus, GPS - 65 point all cross focvus- Better mirror control- 10 frames a second compared to 8 of 7D- Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors instead of digic 4 of 7D-

There's actuially quite a lot of improvements over previous model


----------



## Zv (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Why is there not an L-series 24-70 equivalent for cropped sensors?!!*



simonxu11 said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Quest for Light said:
> ...



Hmmm impressive if they are indeed 40 full size RAW files and not some compressed version like sRAW or something. The NX-1 certainly looks good on paper, I'll give ye that! But what good is all that awesomeness when you can't pair it to a decent super-tele? 15fps of a static subject 10 feet in front of you isn't all that useful.


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

it´s a refined body that´s for sure. 

i was never going to buy a 7D MK2 anyway.
that the 7D MK2 is so focused on action shooter helps me to not get tempted.

im waiting for the 5D MK 4.. my spouse would flogg me when i spend 1700 euro on this camera and another 3000 euro on a 5D MK4.

now i only hope the 5D MK4 will be out in spring 2015. :


----------



## 2n10 (Sep 15, 2014)

I will scratching the itch when I have enough scratch to do it. ;D


----------



## Steve (Sep 15, 2014)

Well, I was saying a while ago that if they deliver the spec list for under $2k this is going to be a great camera so at $1799 this looks pretty awesome. I'll probably rent one in a few months once the hype has died down and some sober reviews have come in and try it next to my 1DIV to see if its an upgrade. 

That AF toggle looks brilliant and from that CNET video it looks like it still has the precision center point from the 7D. That was the one thing about the original 7D AF system I really liked. I wonder how customizeable the button layout and AF selection is, though. Would be nice to have the ability to toggle between two favorite AF settings by pushing in the joystick rather than having to cycle through all available modes. One thing I am very curious about as an improvement over my 1D is how well it handles f5.6 lenses. I'm at 5.6 min aperture 99% of the time and if the AF points are restricted it may not be worth it. On the other hand, -3EV might boost performance on those lenses so I guess I'll just have to see once its available.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> I still don't expect it to fix Canon's noise issues...



As for base ISO DR, how about this. It can do +/- 5 stops of bracketing for up to 7 exposures, and it can do 7 exposures in 6 tenths of a second. That's a pretty fast HDR which would probably work for all but fast moving subjects, and it would give you up to around 22 stops of DR.


----------



## Steve (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> That last bit about automatically switching the AF point...that sounds like the new tracking feature from Sony's AF system. If it does the same thing, then I'm impressed. You would then be able to manually choose a single AF point for getting the initial lock...but the sensor will still use all the AF points to track the subject. THAT is pretty kick-ass...and it's a key feature I would really like to have.



This is how it works on the 1DIV so its not really new, just new to the 7D line. Which is pretty awesome.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> That last bit about automatically switching the AF point...that sounds like the new tracking feature from Sony's AF system. If it does the same thing, then I'm impressed. You would then be able to *manually choose a single AF point for getting the initial lock...but the sensor will still use all the AF points to track the subject*. THAT is pretty kick-ass...



How is that not what the 5DIII can do now, albeit without tracking data input from the metering sensor? The way the feature is described is exactly how it works on my 1D X.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > That last bit about automatically switching the AF point...that sounds like the new tracking feature from Sony's AF system. If it does the same thing, then I'm impressed. You would then be able to *manually choose a single AF point for getting the initial lock...but the sensor will still use all the AF points to track the subject*. THAT is pretty kick-ass...
> ...



From what I understand, that's a fairly key difference between the 5DIII and the 1DX.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



The input from the metering sensor is a key difference for the 1D X and 7DII...but not the manual selection of starting point with automatic switching of AF points to follow the subject that jrista describes as impressive and kick-ass, and which a camera he owns can already do.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



In that case, I think you're making an incorrect assumption about the 7DII. The 7DII will behave just like the 1D X (and 5DIII minus metering input). Can you give a Sony model that has the feature you're talking about? 

But TBH, I'm still not sure what you're really talking about here. On the 1D X (and 5DIII is the same), in 61-pt auto select and AI Servo mode (both must be set), you can *manually select any single AF* point you want (I actually have different ones preset for landscape vs. portrait orientation), and that's the point that will lock onto the subject. If the subject moves off that point, the *AF system will track the subject across the array of AF points, switching points* as the subject moves. No, you're not in single point selection mode, but it works like you describe: "_manually choose a single AF point for getting the initial lock...but the sensor will still use all the AF points to track the subject_."

Other than what mode you start in (auto vs. single), how does the Sony system differ? Both let you select the starting point, both automatically switch AF points to track the moving subject.


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

I think you´re referring to the same thing. On the 1DX/5DIII you use a single point to lock focus, which can be any available point, then the camera will use those focus points, single or multiple, required to keep the subject locked thereafter. With fast moving objects, BIF etc. it works very well. Only downside is with the 5DIII, where exposure metering does not follow the focus point.

See description here: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-7d-mark-ii/6


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 15, 2014)

oh boy...i think i am going to skip the reading of all these pages and just jump out on a limb and say a few things. 

This camera does look to be badass, that is if your shooting action. If your not shooting action, or are reach limited then FF sensors are just better for the obvious reasons. So I won't be buying this - but - I do like what I see for specs. 

As to the constant DR drumbeat I hear...I am sick of that and sick of all the claims that this isn't an upgrade and canon doesn't innovate. I mean, tell me seriously what other than using someone else's sensor has nikon done? Take that sensor out and what have they done? Not much, other than release 7 FF bodies over the past 3 years (more if you count the DF, and the d4 and the d4s) in order to end up with 2 decent ones....

Anyway you hack it though...all this talk of innovation and really, how can nikon take any of the credit for it...or...how can camera users give nikon credit for that? Especially when apparently they couldn't even get that right without releasing 7 bodies to get 2 that may stick....


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> If your not shooting action, or are reach limited then FF sensors are just better for the obvious reasons.



Better, but costlier. But, yeah, if you don't need all this power, a 6D is probably better at just flat producing images.


----------



## paumm2006 (Sep 15, 2014)

Just letting you guys know, the B&H preview video explicitly says that the sensor is not the same as the one in the 70D.

Here is the video in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stY7CC2GOE4


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



Here's what Sony has to say about their Lock-on flexible spot mode: "_Lock-on AF mode lets users select one of four AF area modes (Wide, Zone, Flexible Spot or Expanded Flexible Spot), and can recognize and track a subject’s form based on its color and its position within the frame, automatically selecting the appropriate AF point from the 79 available._:

So, you enable the Lock-on mode, manually select an AF point, and it will track a subject through the frame, automatically selecting the appropriate AF point as the subject moves.

With the 5DIII, 1D X, and 7DII, you enable AI Servo mode and 61-pt auto selection, manually select an AF point, and it will track a subject through the frame, automatically selecting the appropriate AF point as the subject moves.

Other than the difference I already mentioned (the 1D X, 7DII, and Sony a77-II use color information, the 5DIII does not because it doesn't get input from the metering system), how do those two differ?

Sorry, I just really don't get it.




jrista said:


> I honestly do not believe any Canon or Nikon system currently has anything like flexible spot. I know there are the zone and all points modes, but when you pick a single AF point, as far as I know (and maybe the 1D X is different), only that one point will be used, regardless.



I think you are mistaken. Just to make sure we're on the same page here regarding the 5DIII (that page is p.77 from the 5DIII manual), with 61-pt auto selection in AI Servo, you *manually select any single AF* (*1*), and the *AF system will track the subject across the array of AF points, switching points* (*2*).

So again, can you please explain what is different about the Sony system?


----------



## Camerakik (Sep 15, 2014)

Does anyone know if the 7D mark II has the silent shutter mode like the 5D mark III? My apologies if this has already been covered. Thanks.


----------



## fragilesi (Sep 15, 2014)

paumm2006 said:


> Just letting you guys know, the B&H preview video explicitly says that the sensor is not the same as the one in the 70D.
> 
> Here is the video in question:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stY7CC2GOE4



Yes but some people are still disappointed with it ;D


----------



## zlatko (Sep 15, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> oh boy...i think i am going to skip the reading of all these pages and just jump out on a limb and say a few things.
> 
> This camera does look to be badass, that is if your shooting action. If your not shooting action, or are reach limited then FF sensors are just better for the obvious reasons. So I won't be buying this - but - I do like what I see for specs.
> 
> ...



I agree. DR is not even on my list of things to check before buying a new camera. Canon have met my DR requirements for a very long time now. (Improving DR is good, but I'm not missing any in current cameras.) I'm much more interested in other camera details like high ISO, AF speed & accuracy, size & weight, ergonomics, durability, dual cards, etc., etc.


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 15, 2014)

fragilesi said:


> paumm2006 said:
> 
> 
> > Just letting you guys know, the B&H preview video explicitly says that the sensor is not the same as the one in the 70D.
> ...



"It is a new sensor"

"cleanest images yet from a crop camera"

and somehow people can not accept that it is NOT the same sensor as the 70D....

not worth the trouble to argue about.....


----------



## Khalai (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



Manual, p. 74:

_With 61-point automatic selection AF, you can set the starting AF point for AI Servo AF_


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...


A tip worth trying is to toggle through the AF modes and try again when you get to the all-points mode. A couple of times and don´t ask me how it happens, I have seen what you describe. But for me it has been sufficient to toggle through the modes and try again.


----------



## paumm2006 (Sep 15, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> fragilesi said:
> 
> 
> > paumm2006 said:
> ...



Totally agree. I understand being disappointed about the rumors, as it seemed as if were the same, but now that the information is out there... ??? I guess some people like to ignore the facts and continue arguing their case.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

paumm2006 said:


> Totally agree. I understand being disappointed about the rumors, as it seemed as if were the same, but now that the information is out there... ??? I guess some people like to ignore the facts and continue arguing their case.



People are complaining that it probably isn't different enough. They want on-sensor A-to-D and dramatically (factor of 4-8 or so) reduced low-ISO read noise which would provide up to 2-3 stops more base ISO dynamic range.

Personally, I don't care that much about low ISO DR, but reduced noise from any source is always a good thing.

It's likely that this sensor has similar base ISO DR to all previous Canon sensors. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think that's unlikely.


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> I reset the camera, and tried that, and it still did not work. Then, I just hit the AF mode button (the one on the back, which you press first, before pressing M-Fn to actually switch modes), and moved the joystick. That worked. So, in most AF modes, you can just move the joystick, and the selected AF point moves. But in all points mode, you have to first hit mode, then use the joystick to move the AF point? Seems very tedious...
> 
> But, it does seem to work...mostly. It does initially lock onto the subject under my selected point...but it jumps a lot. As I track, it doesn't seem to really STICK to the originally selected subject...which is kind of annoying. I am not using my 600mm lens, though, so maybe it will work better on that.



What are your tracking sensitivity and AF point switch values?


----------



## Twostones (Sep 15, 2014)

It would be nice if Canon would make the manual for the 7D2 available for download so we can examine its functions.


----------



## Khalai (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> Then, I just hit the AF mode button (the one on the back, which you press first, before pressing M-Fn to actually switch modes)



Just as is written in the manual, so nothing faulty with your 5D3


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...


You should play with the AF customization. This may be of interest: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9174241280/configuring-your-5d-mark-iii-af-for-fast-action


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



I have to say, AI Servo with 61-pt auto is one of my most frequently used modes, it's C3 on my 'everyday' shooting setup. Great to be able to start at a lateral point, pick up a subject moving across the frame, and have the camera track that subject through the frame. The active AF points literally dance across the viewfinder.

When I look through the VF in AI Servo with 61-pt auto, I see a single point showing within the brackets (as I said, I have a different one set for each orientation). As is expected, you need to either tap the AF point select button or the tap the shutter button to move the AF point around with the joystick (that's true in One Shot or AI Servo - the AF system has to be active, and it times out with the metering timeout - although that is selectable on the 1-series).

At least you now know that something you've described as "pretty amazing" and also as "impressive" and "kick-ass" as a Sony 'innovation' is something your 5DIII has been able to do all along (although having the metering tied in as it is on the 1D X and 7DII is even better).


----------



## paumm2006 (Sep 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> paumm2006 said:
> 
> 
> > Totally agree. I understand being disappointed about the rumors, as it seemed as if were the same, but now that the information is out there... ??? I guess some people like to ignore the facts and continue arguing their case.
> ...



While some people are complaining as you describe, other continue saying "How could they put the same sensor?  ", which is kind of pathetic. However, lets forget those people and focus on the possibilities of the *all-new* 7D MKII sensor!! ;D


----------



## Larry (Sep 15, 2014)

*AFMA?*


Does the 7DII have Autofocus micro-adjust capabilities?

I've seen no mention ???


----------



## daniela (Sep 15, 2014)

Do you know, how much does it cost in Europe / Germany?

I could not find an price for European countries. I do not think that the >2000€ mentioned on British pages are the price for the rest of Europe.

G
Daniela


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> I'm glad the feature does work...but it's annoying that it doesn't work like the other modes. In all the other modes I just have to use the joystick and it moves the AF point. In this mode, I first have to hit the AF mode button, then choose the point. I'm so deeply ingrained in the patterns I used with the 7D and the other AF modes on the 5D III...just tapping the joystick to move the point (which is probably why I didn't think you could select a point in all points mode...it works differently!! GRRR.) I can normally change my selected point in the middle of tracking a bird in flight...but this extra button push...really messes things up.


But that is how it works. Half press the shutter button, the focus point appears, use the joystick to move it where you want it. Next time you hit the shutter button, the point will reappear on the new spot you moved it to.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

The AF and metering specs sound pretty awesome, very good speed at 10fps too.
It should be quite the beast so long as you only shoot stills and stick to DR-limited scenes.
It does sound quite awesome in all those regards and those are all key points for 7D series.

It is a bit worrisome that the long delay was not due to waiting on a new sensor process though. Not critical maybe for the 7D2, but a clear shame it has the old 2007 low ISO sensor tech once again and it makes one start to get nervous now about the 5D4. And for those who can only afford one body and/or only want to carry one body, it is a shame, one body users will use this as their landscape camera too don't forget and now it is locked into old sensor tech for another 3-5 years it seems.

They totally punted on video though. It has the super video AF, but they remove the touch screen to control it! 

“With more processing power than any other EOS camera available today.... ....And, recognizing that for some, creative expression may expand beyond still photography, we continue to support these creative passions by offering new and innovative Full HD video capabilities.”

And yet they cripple 4k out of it.

"Stunning Movie Capability"

And yet no 4k and no 1080P RAW so it's worse movie quality than 5D3+ML. And everybody and there brother is suddenly starting to release 4k cams, even Lumix P&S announced today has 4k. I guess they still feel Nikon is the only threat and since Nikon doesn't have 4k Canon won't bother, so much for being a leader and not a follower.

This also brings much worry about the 5D4. Will it also lack 4k and 1080pRAW (and thus actually be WORSE for video than the old 5D3?) or will it have a crippled 4k now? If they don't give it 4k and 1080pRAW why would anyone buy it for video over a 5D3?


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 15, 2014)

daniela said:


> Do you know, how much does it cost in Europe / Germany?
> 
> I could not find an price for European countries. I do not think that the >2000€ mentioned on British pages are the price for the rest of Europe.



1699 Euro.


----------



## Larry (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: AFMA?*



Larry said:


> Does the 7DII have Autofocus micro-adjust capabilities?
> 
> I've seen no mention ???



Yes!, ...found it on DPR review of camera.


----------



## peederj (Sep 15, 2014)

Anyone still wanting to use a DSLR for video can struggle with the GH4 and the A7S/Shogun. I don't care about DSLR video much anymore, it's handy, but any serious work (where quality matters) should be done on a proper cam at this point...the total costs of ownership aren't much higher once you've jury-rigged something together that can make a DSLR vaguely functional.

The worse problem is the 7D2 is as a stills camera not enough for Canon at this point. They still haven't leapt ahead of Nikon and Sony in this generation. The 7D2 is sort of a crop 5D3 with higher frame rate and a couple more modern touches. Canon still don't have a D800-competing big megapixel cam nor do they have another generation in low-light advantage they used to enjoy.

Maybe Canon are transitioning to medium format to gain a generational advantage and force us all to buy new glass. The FF135 and APS-C cams will be for sports/wildlife people and emphasize AF and HFR like this 7D2 does. Portrait and landscape will move to larger sensors. I'm not against that in principle, though repurchasing glass will hurt. But getting us to do that is the best way for Canon to make money and I don't deny them the right to make money.


----------



## MichaelHodges (Sep 15, 2014)

ericski said:


> Is "EV -3 AF" another way of saying lenses can auto focus at f/8? E.g. will I be able to use auto focus with my 100-400 and 1.4x extender?



-3 AF on a crop sensor is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 15, 2014)

peederj said:


> Maybe Canon are transitioning to medium format to gain a generational advantage and force us all to buy new glass. The FF135 and APS-C cams will be for sports/wildlife people and emphasize AF and HFR like this 7D2 does. Portrait and landscape will move to larger sensors. I'm not against that in principle, though repurchasing glass will hurt. But getting us to do that is the best way for Canon to make money and I don't deny them the right to make money.



looking at the MF market situation i doubt canon will make money that way.
there is well established competition already and canon had to invest a lot in R&D.

and if you want MF today you don´t need canon.
you have to buy new glass anyway.

MF will become a choice for canon when it´s cheap enough to produce for the mass market. maybe in 10 years.


ps:

and no, the cinema line is something different. there is much higher demand for cinema stuff then MF.


----------



## Dylan777 (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



*Are you sure you on 61AF points + Ai servo*? 

Mine works just like others mentioned. I used 61AF points in BIF.


----------



## MichaelHodges (Sep 15, 2014)

Orangutan said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



If you're shooting at high ISO's then you shouldn't be shooting crop.


----------



## ehouli (Sep 15, 2014)

Until I see with my own eyes that Canon did a good job in Dynamic Range and noise handling, I keep my thoughts to myself, other than that I don't see anything groundbreaking


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

paumm2006 said:


> While some people are complaining as you describe, other continue saying "How could they put the same sensor?  ", which is kind of pathetic. However, lets forget those people and focus on the possibilities of the *all-new* 7D MKII sensor!! ;D



Indeed. But let us not forget the *all new* 18 MP APS-C sensor in the T4i/650D (all new because of Hybrid CMOS AF) or the *all new* 18 MP APS-C sensor in the SL1/100D (all new because of Hybrid CMOS AF II). 

:-X


----------



## keriboi (Sep 15, 2014)

Quick calculations and at 10 frames per second this camera is only going to last around 6hours. Im switiching to Nikconsonypanisonic


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> The selected point appears when I activate AF (I use rear-button AF). However, I cannot move it until I first hit the AF mode selection button...then that frees the AF point to be moved somewhere else with the joystick. In other modes, I just have to activate AF, then I can move the selected point with the joystick without the intermediate requirement of pressing AF mode first.


Check how you have set it up. On the last of the AF menus you have numerous options on what you would like to see. With Camera powered on, I can see the position of the chosen focus point in the viewfinder, but I can´t move it until I have hit the shutter button or the AF or AF mode buttons at the back, which is the same with all the other modes.


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 15, 2014)

keriboi said:


> Quick calculations and at 10 frames per second this camera is only going to last around 6hours. Im switiching to Nikconsonypanisonic



well that´s in the warranty time i guess...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> The selected point appears when I activate AF (I use rear-button AF). However, I cannot move it until I first hit the AF mode selection button...then that frees the AF point to be moved somewhere else with the joystick. In other modes, I just have to activate AF, then I can move the selected point with the joystick without the intermediate requirement of pressing AF mode first.



I use back-button AF, I just tap the AF-ON button then I can move the joystick to move the AF point (even after I've released the AF-ON button, although as I stated above, moving the AF point 'times out' just like the metering). That's in all modes, including AI Servo + 61-pt auto.


----------



## AmselAdans (Sep 15, 2014)

10 FPS and the shutter is rated for 200.000 shots... so I buy this camera and already after 5,5 hours of continuous shooting, the camera will break down at the very first day of its use! What a crap!!
And then this awful sensor, which we all may already judge accordingly, non-biased and objective based on our infinite wisedom about A/D converters, NR, and 5DIII manuals without having seen a single sample picture....


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 15, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> ericski said:
> 
> 
> > Is "EV -3 AF" another way of saying lenses can auto focus at f/8? E.g. will I be able to use auto focus with my 100-400 and 1.4x extender?
> ...



Like on the new Canadian subs..... The deepest diving submarines in the world! They can go all the way to the bottom


----------



## AmselAdans (Sep 15, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> MichaelHodges said:
> 
> 
> > ericski said:
> ...



awful dynamic range in this picture. Must be shot with one of those crappy sensors a company named "Canon" produces.
 sorry for the trolling, guys, couldn't resist.

I think the specs of the 7D MkII are fine. It hoped for something surprising on top of these specs. I think in this case, its the price tag - around 1600-1800 € is nothing for this feature list.
And for Canon we know that the included features indeed work very well. Features on paper is a whole other story.


----------



## Aglet (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II is not exciting enough*

7d2 is pretty much as expected, AF and metering is skookum but no mention of any improvement in low ISO performance or any new tech to alleviate FPN issues which, more so with dual processors, can risk generating striped deep shadows as many 7d bodies did.
I'm not compelled to buy one at the intro price only to get some AF abilities my Nikon's already have an equivalent to and I seriously doubt it would satisfy my landscape requirements for the few shots I'd throw its way if I had it. I don't do enough BiF or fast action shots for this to be a worthwhile buy.

Nope, sorry Canon, 7d2 isn't exciting me unless I see NO FPN when I test it.
I'll have to shoot some dark frames with it to see how noisy the output is but, for now, any cash I have is more likely to go to a new 44" Epson or HP printer (their inks seem to stick better) to help cash flow in.

Panasonic & Olympus have some exciting goodies coming out though, even Samsung's new mirrorless catches my attention. Canon didn't innovate this year.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Sep 15, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> -3 AF on a crop sensor is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.



I wouldn't mind being able to achieve AF lock in -3EV for flash photography without using an assist beam.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> MichaelHodges said:
> 
> 
> > ericski said:
> ...



Canadian Sub? Who the hell is the Captain? The Cat in The Hat?! ;D


----------



## Click (Sep 15, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> Like on the new Canadian subs..... The deepest diving submarines in the world! They can go all the way to the bottom



Ha Ha Ha ;D


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II is not exciting enough*



Aglet said:


> 7d2 is pretty much as expected, AF and metering is skookum but no mention of any improvement in low ISO performance ...


Then I think you should read some of the issued statements again. Low ISO is clearly addressed.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II is not exciting enough*



Aglet said:


> Nope, sorry Canon, 7d2 isn't exciting me unless I see NO FPN when I test it.
> I'll have to shoot some dark frames with it to see how noisy the output is but, for now, any cash I have is more likely to go to a new 44" Epson or HP printer (their inks seem to stick better) to help cash flow in.



Just shoot with the lens cap on and push it 5 stops...... :


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II is not exciting enough*



Eldar said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > 7d2 is pretty much as expected, AF and metering is skookum but no mention of any improvement in low ISO performance ...
> ...



Which statements?

I saw some talk about High ISO, but none about low so far.


----------



## Eldar (Sep 15, 2014)

*Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II is not exciting enough*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...


He he, good point. Maybe I should read before I type


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

Quick impression from the press releases:

Anyway the speed and AF and all sounds like out of the park, awesome.

The sensor is what it is. It would be DOA for a 5D4, but it's probably OK for a 7D2 (although not ideal and I certainly feel for the one body shooters who'd use this as their main landscape cam too, it'll still do 100% fine for many of those shots, but will struggle for any higher DR scenes and the colro filter array has been made even yet more color-blind).

The video looks pretty punted though in terms of quality. The video AF might be useful though.

If you don't hit DR-limited scenes much and never shoot video it's a total home run. Grand slam even (assuming it lives up to the words).

If you were looking to it for video it's a D+ if you care about all things plus video quality. If you don't care about the video quality so much at all, it's maybe B to A- depending upon unknown UI factors. No 1080pRAW, no 4k, apparently the same old smeary, squishy 1080 Canon DSLR-style 1080p. Vstly better video AF though and hopefully 2 stops better video SNR over the 7D (unless a few vague, hard to believe rumors about it still line skipping are true, not sure how that could be, it has so much power).

If you wanted an action cam plus great all around aps-c sensor it's mixed, probably truly great on the one hand and stuck in 2007 and not quite so hot on the other (although the not so hot part only affecting a sub-set of possible images, I'm sure it will be more than fine for all the rest).


----------



## 3kramd5 (Sep 15, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The sensor is what it is. It would be DOA for a 5D4



I agree, APS-C in a 5D4 would be DOA 

But if they maintained pixel density in a full frame format, I'd be early in line.


----------



## AmselAdans (Sep 15, 2014)

Just compared comments here and on dpreview.
Dpreview's comments are just like the ones on youtube. You just don't want to read them or you lose your faith in humanity.
CR is more like some weird fetish forum...
Both are fine when you want to have a good laugh.


----------



## AmselAdans (Sep 15, 2014)

from dpreview's comments section: (pure comedy gold)
User Photato writes:
"I was expecting:

-Much better image quality [...] has anyone seen a picture out of the camera yet?
[...]
-Touch Screen. It has interesting professional uses. I would love to hear about the professional uses for touch screens. I for myself -being a pure amateur- keep pushing touch screens with my fingers. There must be something I don't know about.
-Many other creative solutions that are expected from a "leading" camera company. I love how specific "many other creative solutions" is  I want this and this and that aaaand above all, many other cool things I don't know about exactly. Because I know, what I want if I would see it."


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Anyway the speed and AF and all sounds like out of the park, awesome.
> 
> The sensor is what it is. It would be DOA for a 5D4, but it's probably OK for a 7D2 (although not ideal and I certainly feel for the one body shooters who'd use this as their main landscape cam too).
> 
> ...



I'll preface this by saying I don't really shoot video but that said, I think it will hold it's own pretty well considering the smooth AF it appears to have from the Canon promo "Cello" and the "Making of Cello" I think will be a hit with the entry level video guys especially when coupled with the lens system Canon has. Granted, it's not a nice as the 5d3 video, but that wasn't to be expected. Physics. However, that short they made at 3200 ISO looked pretty darn good and the focus racking looked darn good to me. Put that little camera with a Ninja and it's a good little set up I'm betting.


----------



## stinson001 (Sep 15, 2014)

Greetings,,, Sorry if I have missed this in this long thread, but has there been any mention of a time frame for availablity? I see Adorama and B&H offering pre-orders, just wondering how much longer we will hae to wait?


----------



## AmselAdans (Sep 15, 2014)

stinson001 said:


> Greetings,,, Sorry if I have missed this in this long thread, but has there been any mention of a time frame for availablity? I see Adorama and B&H offering pre-orders, just wondering how much longer we will hae to wait?



17th of November it says somewhere.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

stinson001 said:


> Greetings,,, Sorry if I have missed this in this long thread, but has there been any mention of a time frame for availablity? I see Adorama and B&H offering pre-orders, just wondering how much longer we will hae to wait?



Stated arrival is November 17th


----------



## paumm2006 (Sep 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> paumm2006 said:
> 
> 
> > While some people are complaining as you describe, other continue saying "How could they put the same sensor?  ", which is kind of pathetic. However, lets forget those people and focus on the possibilities of the *all-new* 7D MKII sensor!! ;D
> ...



Good point. But given that there is no new technology advertised (that I can see, that is), is it fair to assume the "newness" will come from the actual sensor? I sure hope so. :-\


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

paumm2006 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > paumm2006 said:
> ...



Perhaps. Canon had a patent publish recently on improved DPAF for use in AI Servo AF, and now the 7DII has DPAF in AI Servo AF. I'm not sure if that required a hardware tweak to the sensor, but if so, that could be what's 'all new'.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway the speed and AF and all sounds like out of the park, awesome.
> ...



Yeah I updated my comment so the video part now says:
Quick impression from the press releases:

If you were looking to it for video it's a D+ if you care about all things plus video quality. If you don't care about the video quality so much at all, it's maybe B to A- depending upon unknown UI factors.

No 1080pRAW, no 4k, apparently the same old smeary, squishy 1080 Canon DSLR-style 1080p.

Vastly better video AF though and hopefully 2-2.5 stops better video SNR over the 7D (unless a few vague, hard to believe rumors about it still line skipping are true, not sure how that could be, it has so much power).


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

Thought I read/saw somewhere today that it was a newly designed microlens, photodiode, bayer... pretty much everything apart from the fact that it uses the same pixel count as the 70D. But with newly design pixels which have aided it's low light/high ISO performance. I think that was the whole point of showing so much 3200 ISO in that promo video short "Cello"


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 15, 2014)

are there any sample images yet.

from canon or a review website?


----------



## that1guyy (Sep 15, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway the speed and AF and all sounds like out of the park, awesome.
> ...



I haven't really seen the video quality of the 7d mark ii because the cello video on Canon's site doesn't allow me to change the resolution or even full screen it but if you're saying the video is worse than the 5D3 then that is pretty sad. The 5D3 is pretty shit now for video. So if this new cam is worse, then oh wow am I laughing now.


----------



## nebugeater (Sep 15, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> stinson001 said:
> 
> 
> > Greetings,,, Sorry if I have missed this in this long thread, but has there been any mention of a time frame for availablity? I see Adorama and B&H offering pre-orders, just wondering how much longer we will hae to wait?
> ...



Now Amazon says Nov 28. IT had said the 17th Maybe it changed or maybe they have had enough pre-orders to push it to a later date based on delivery schedule.


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

that1guyy said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



looking at your flickr images i say what you need more than better video is a electronic level in your camera. 

sorry could not resist.

but i agree the 7D MK2 should have 4K video.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



On the custom controls screen (C.Fn Menu 2 or via Q menu), select the multicontroller (bottom right icon) and select 'AF point direct selection'. That's off by default, so it got switched back when you did the reset.


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> paumm2006 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



According to Dave Perry of Canon UK in the YouTube video link posted in this thread, the 'all new sensor, different to the 70D ' is............micro lenses.

Here's the link again for anyone interested. 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey7FzU7OqH4


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> Thought I read/saw somewhere today that it was a newly designed microlens, photodiode, bayer... pretty much everything apart from the fact that it uses the same pixel count as the 70D. But with newly design pixels which have aided it's low light/high ISO performance. I think that was the whole point of showing so much 3200 ISO in that promo video short "Cello"



It would gain a lot more SNR in video simply by not line-skipping and reading the entire sensor, if it does that, even if the sensor had the same tech as the 7D, it would automatically pick up around 2 stops I think (I forget exactly how much of the sensor the 7D skips). Just as with the 5D3 vs the 5D2, it's only modestly better in SNR for stills, but far, far better for SNR in video.


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 15, 2014)

jrista said:


> :'( I think something is up with my 5D III.



Seems everyone is aware of that, you have so much trouble with noise an all.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 15, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yes. I am a little uncertain what Jon is talking about, but I was going to suggest he check his custom functions.

I changed my auto focus area selection method to the click wheel and then forgot about it. Kept trying to push the M-FN button and nothing happened until I remembered I'd changed it.


----------



## AccipiterQ (Sep 15, 2014)

If I only user center-point for photographing birds, is this really worth the upgrade over the T2i I've been lugging around for several years? I'm thinking of just getting a 6D or 5Diii, as I can get pretty close to my subjects, and I'm using a 400mm lens. From the specs of the 7Dii it looks more like a 'side-grade' to the T2i than an actual upgrade, for the type of photography I do. My main limiting factor right now is iso performance; anything above 400 on the T2i is pretty much useless, and I'm not getting the sense the 7Dii will be any better. Anyone that shoots similar subject matter have any thoughts on this?


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

that1guyy said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



Clearly worse than 5D3 WITH Magic Lantern RAW. With ML RAW the 5D3 produces very good 1080p video, the best of any regular line DSLR by anyone (well, maybe, I haven't seen the 4k A7S footage yet).

Not sure about how it will compared to native, SOOC 5D3 video. SOOC 5D3 video is kinda waxy and squishy. The one clip with the skiers from the 7D2 made it look maybe a bit worse than 5D3 but probably better than the 7D (it's hard to tell from that, not even sure what mode it was in, maybe 720p for all I know, etc. who knows maybe it's even better (other than the impossibility of beating FF SNR) than 5D3 SOOC. But no way it could ever beat 5D3 with Magic Lantern RAW.


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

how can the stupid canon battery grip for the 7D MK2 cost as much as an entry level DSLR? :-X

i mean what´s in it?

the chinese can kock them out for 50$ and make a profit.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2014)

unfocused said:


> I changed my auto focus area selection method to the click wheel and then forgot about it. Kept trying to push the M-FN button and nothing happened until I remembered I'd changed it.



I have it on the click wheel, too. That little lever around the 7DII's multicontroller is a pretty slick ergonomic addition! I have my M-Fn1 button (the one by the shutter release, the 1D X has an M-Fn2 next to the DoF Preview buttons) assigned to switch modes. That's pretty cool as it 'remembers' the last mode you used and cycles through that and the C# settings, and witht he display in the VF I can cycle through modes without taking my eye from the VF.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

AccipiterQ said:


> If I only user center-point for photographing birds, is this really worth the upgrade over the T2i I've been lugging around for several years? I'm thinking of just getting a 6D or 5Diii, as I can get pretty close to my subjects, and I'm using a 400mm lens. From the specs of the 7Dii it looks more like a 'side-grade' to the T2i than an actual upgrade, for the type of photography I do. My main limiting factor right now is iso performance; anything above 400 on the T2i is pretty much useless, and I'm not getting the sense the 7Dii will be any better. Anyone that shoots similar subject matter have any thoughts on this?



I'd imagine the focus accuracy for one shot or AI Servo tracking will be much better than on the T2i. The trigger delay should be much shorter. The fps are much higher. To many that could be a considerable upgrade for such shooting. Surely for sports. How much the high ISO will improved, remains to be seen. The t2i isn't bad at high iso to begin with though so don't expect miracles.


----------



## ritholtz (Sep 15, 2014)

When can we expect IQ comparisons to appear on net? Do we need to wait until Canon starts shipping them?
Hoping to see very good ISO 6400 pics from this new sensor. With iso 6400, I can use F2.8 
max aperture lens to take pics under low light. Next rebel with this sensor, swivel screen, wifi
and some more consumer grade updates/downgrades, will be great.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

AccipiterQ said:


> If I only user center-point for photographing birds, is this really worth the upgrade over the T2i I've been lugging around for several years? I'm thinking of just getting a 6D or 5Diii, as I can get pretty close to my subjects, and I'm using a 400mm lens. From the specs of the 7Dii it looks more like a 'side-grade' to the T2i than an actual upgrade, for the type of photography I do. My main limiting factor right now is iso performance; anything above 400 on the T2i is pretty much useless, and I'm not getting the sense the 7Dii will be any better. Anyone that shoots similar subject matter have any thoughts on this?



I had a t2i and a 7D. The 7D was a clear winner for fast targets. The 7DII will have exponentially better AF capability and the sensor is better as well. Short of the birds being dead and/or stuffed you'll get far more clean shots with an AF system like this and more than double the FPS of a t2i. Plus you can take it in adverse conditions like rain (assuming your lens is also weather sealed). Again, it's not just another 2MP. You're adding in DPAF as well plus new pixels themselves as ahve been recently discussed in this same thread. And you may not always get to be close, so why not keep the reach of a crop. You're going to have to get a lot closer if you go FF. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey7FzU7OqH4&app=desktop


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

I'm concerned that they have dropped the 70D's highly-useful 3x "digital zoom" mode for video. It doesn't appear in the menu shown on the B&H preview. That feature needs not only to be included, but improved.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 15, 2014)

AccipiterQ said:


> If I only user center-point for photographing birds, is this really worth the upgrade over the T2i I've been lugging around for several years? I'm thinking of just getting a 6D or 5Diii, as I can get pretty close to my subjects, and I'm using a 400mm lens. From the specs of the 7Dii it looks more like a 'side-grade' to the T2i than an actual upgrade, for the type of photography I do. My main limiting factor right now is iso performance; anything above 400 on the T2i is pretty much useless, and I'm not getting the sense the 7Dii will be any better. Anyone that shoots similar subject matter have any thoughts on this?


Each person has different levels of tolerance to image noise. If you consider the pictures of T2i above ISO400 as useless, 7D Mark ii probably should do the same above ISO800. If someone has the habit of looking at your photos on the computer, viewing at 100% magnification, will always find noise in images from any camera.

I think you should reconsider your method of image processing, for more efficient noise reduction.


----------



## Khnnielsen (Sep 15, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> that1guyy said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Coming from a profesional broadcast television background I don't care about 4k or raw video.
If Canon made a DSLR that used the same MPEG2( 1080i 50Mbps 4:2:2)codec that you find in the C300 then it would make huge impact. Why? Because some broadcasters won't accept material shoot with a DSLR because of the codec. That is the sole reason why I have to use a rental camera this week.


----------



## BLFPhoto (Sep 15, 2014)

AccipiterQ said:


> If I only user center-point for photographing birds, is this really worth the upgrade over the T2i I've been lugging around for several years? I'm thinking of just getting a 6D or 5Diii, as I can get pretty close to my subjects, and I'm using a 400mm lens. From the specs of the 7Dii it looks more like a 'side-grade' to the T2i than an actual upgrade, for the type of photography I do. My main limiting factor right now is iso performance; anything above 400 on the T2i is pretty much useless, and I'm not getting the sense the 7Dii will be any better. Anyone that shoots similar subject matter have any thoughts on this?



Oh my! Even the current 7D would be better for your purposes. This new one, with the 65 f/2.8 focus points will be miles better. You will be able to actually compose a proper picture instead of shooting dead center and cropping. AI Servo will be miles better than with your T4i. And 10fps frame rate will shoot circles around what you currently do, giving you the ability to track and shoot, choosing the peak action in post. You'll get images you can't imagine getting on a regular basis.

It's seriously not even a reasonable question unless you simply don't have the $. In fact, for your purposes, I'll bet I'd almost rather have this 7D Mk II than a 5D Mk III.


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

Khnnielsen said:


> Coming from a profesional broadcast television background I don't care about 4k or raw video.
> If Canon made a DSLR that used the same MPEG2( 1080i 50Mbps 4:2:2)codec that you find in the C300 then it would make huge impact. Why? Because some broadcasters won't accept material shoot with a DSLR because of the codec. That is the sole reason why I have to use a rental camera this week.



but as one man videographer you edit your footage anyway and you can convert it.
4K downsampled gives better quality then native 1080.
i guess it depends on what you do.

but the more formats the cameras offer the better.


----------



## RichM (Sep 15, 2014)

BLFPhoto said:


> It's seriously not even a reasonable question unless you simply don't have the $. In fact, for your purposes, I'll bet I'd almost rather have this 7D Mk II than a 5D Mk III.



I've been waiting for a while for the 7d2. I have a 7d and 5d3, and prefer the 7d for outdoor, well lit sports. I like the extra reach, and "feel" it tracks slightly better. I have pre-ordered a 7d2, but won't sell my 7d until it arrives. I'm very excited about the features, and hope low light performance is improved. The "anti-flicker" feature will be great for indoor sports (thinking hockey and basketball) and if it is even slightly better in low light it will be a winner. Most of all I'm excited that the price is somewhat reasonable and lower than many had anticipated!!


----------



## Khnnielsen (Sep 15, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> Khnnielsen said:
> 
> 
> > Coming from a profesional broadcast television background I don't care about 4k or raw video.
> ...



I shoot the footage as a one man band and deliver the files but with big productions there isn't always time or money to convert the files. When you have 250+ hours of footage and a short time frame to complete post production, then the production company don't want to see your 4k files and fancy picture profiles.


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 15, 2014)

I want to know why the 7D2 does not have a little laser light that shines where the camera is aimed? Everyone knows that the only use of APS-C cameras is to take pictures and videos of cats to put on the internet.... and the videos would be so much better if the cats were chasing that little red dot....

Come on Canon! This is a make or break feature! Why don't you have it!


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 15, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> I want to know why the 7D2 does not have a little laser light that shines where the camera is aimed? Everyone knows that the only use of APS-C cameras is to take pictures and videos of cats to put on the internet.... and the videos would be so much better if the cats were chasing that little red dot....
> 
> Come on Canon! This is a make or break feature! Why don't you have it!



you can add an accessory to the hotshoe.
like the battery grip it comes for a mere 300$


----------



## kphoto99 (Sep 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> I'm concerned that they have dropped the 70D's highly-useful 3x "digital zoom" mode for video. It doesn't appear in the menu shown on the B&H preview. That feature needs not only to be included, but improved.



Don't count on it. The t3i has digital zoom in video, but it is not in t4i and t5i. So Canon does remove features instead of adding them.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 15, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> I want to know why the 7D2 does not have a little laser light that shines where the camera is aimed? Everyone knows that the only use of APS-C cameras is to take pictures and videos of cats to put on the internet.... and the videos would be so much better if the cats were chasing that little red dot....
> Come on Canon! This is a make or break feature! Why don't you have it!


Yes. but the red laser need to have 14 points of DR.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

Khnnielsen said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > that1guyy said:
> ...



If RAW was too unwieldy you could shoot 5D3 RAW and then put it into whatever format you desired, MPEG2 1080i 50Mbs 4:2:2 or whatever.

Anyway yeah if it simply output in cam video of C300 quality that would help a lot, since you'd get decent quality when you didn't want to mess with RAW.

It's not the codec that is crippling the in-cam Canon video though (5D3 got clean HDMI out and it was the same waxy mush) so the damage is done in an earlier stage.

Anyway if you don;t mind the mush (assuming they didn't fix that), the 7D2 has clean HDMI 1080 4:2:2 out so you could send that into a NINJA or whatnot.

If it had 4k you could simple downsample and re-compress to 1080i 4:2:2 MPEG2 and use that without even needing a NINJA (and get better quality too).


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

BLFPhoto said:


> AccipiterQ said:
> 
> 
> > If I only user center-point for photographing birds, is this really worth the upgrade over the T2i I've been lugging around for several years? I'm thinking of just getting a 6D or 5Diii, as I can get pretty close to my subjects, and I'm using a 400mm lens. From the specs of the 7Dii it looks more like a 'side-grade' to the T2i than an actual upgrade, for the type of photography I do. My main limiting factor right now is iso performance; anything above 400 on the T2i is pretty much useless, and I'm not getting the sense the 7Dii will be any better. Anyone that shoots similar subject matter have any thoughts on this?
> ...



If wildlife stills were the only goal I'd definitely rather have the 7D2 over the 5D3.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

kphoto99 said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > I'm concerned that they have dropped the 70D's highly-useful 3x "digital zoom" mode for video. It doesn't appear in the menu shown on the B&H preview. That feature needs not only to be included, but improved.
> ...



So bizarre, no 4k and no zoom either for video, when the 7D series is supposed to be the reach/wildlife cam and that;s when zoom modes would matter most of all.


----------



## peederj (Sep 15, 2014)

Those digital zoom things on the rebels had simply dreadful false color artifacting/moire. Do it optically, why are we shooting Canon if not the big whites?


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 15, 2014)

Sneak peak at the 7D3. Complete with articulating iPhone 8 and Don's cat laser pointer hotshoe attachment


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 15, 2014)

peederj said:


> Those digital zoom things on the rebels had simply dreadful false color artifacting/moire.



Baloney. It's just a 1:1 pixel crop - almost no moire at all, and in fact much less than in regular video modes.

The 70D has it, and no moire is one advantage often sited.

One thing I'd really love is the ability to smoothly zoom from 1x to 3x "digital zoom" which would greatly increase the zoom range of a zoom lens, or add a usable zoom range to a prime. The 18-135STM, for example, would go from 29-216 to 29-621.


----------



## peederj (Sep 15, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> peederj said:
> 
> 
> > Those digital zoom things on the rebels had simply dreadful false color artifacting/moire.
> ...



The false color artifacting comes from debayering, not downsampling. And it's very hard to suppress in the absence of downsampling. This (along with dynamic range extension) is why 1:1 pixel video cameras are rare. It was awful on the Rebels, I imagine it's also awful on the 70D, but everyone studiously avoids running chart tests on video cameras because the news is usually so grim.


----------



## V8Beast (Sep 15, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> And motherf*ckers, $1800 in US and 2000EURO ($2587) in Europe.



Yeah, but your history is so much more diverse and interesting than it is here in America ;D We don't even have any real castles


----------



## cnardo (Sep 15, 2014)

when/where should l look for a link to a Users Manual for the 7Dii ???????


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2014)

peederj said:


> Those digital zoom things on the rebels had simply dreadful false color artifacting/moire. Do it optically, why are we shooting Canon if not the big whites?



The 7D should be able to do it without line-skipping though. And it isn't fake digital zoom either. The sensors captures 20MP but 1080p is only 2MP so they are simply cropping and then downscaling less. It's all true extra reach gain. Also, I though the zoomed video on some of those actually had less aliasing and moire than their regular modes anyway.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2014)

peederj said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > peederj said:
> ...



I guess stills images are all filled with useless garbage then? Because those are 1:1.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 16, 2014)

https://comeandsee.canon-europe.com/en-GB/products/eos7d-mark-2


----------



## Robnormanphoto (Sep 16, 2014)

Ok..something has to be wrong...on the DPReview in section 4.Body and Design...it states 

"The 7D Mark II uses a new battery, the LP-E6N, that has a higher capacity than the previous LP-E6 batteries found in the 5D Mark III and its predecessor. Importantly, though, the form factor remains the same, which means you should still be able to use the older LP-E6 batteries in it.

The battery gives a battery life of 670 shots in viewfinder shooting and 250 shots in live view mode."

670 shots on one battery that can't be true....with my 60d, with the grip installed with two batteries I can easily get around 9000 shots. I have 4 batteries and can shoot an entire day without recharging...most I have done in a day is about 16,000 photos.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 16, 2014)

peederj said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > peederj said:
> ...



Well, I've used it on my Rebel many times, and it's always been quite solid. I've also looked at many samples of it from the 70D, and the same is true.


----------



## scyrene (Sep 16, 2014)

The dpreview run down of features makes this a much more competent-sounding device than all the rumours made it sound - I suppose it's easy to get bogged down by the negatives. But the biggest pleasant surprise has been the price - starting RRP of £1599 isn't bad at all. I might save up!


----------



## peederj (Sep 16, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> I guess stills images are all filled with useless garbage then? Because those are 1:1.



Try doing debayering that good 24 times a second for half an hour. And then crop 2MP out of your 20MP still and see what you think of the quality. They have OLPF's for this problem, but they are a tradeoff.

Did Canon solve this problem in the 70D? I wasn't able to find chart tests. Too many morons trying to review video cameras using brick walls and the like, having no idea how moire forms (moire can also form from poor downsampling, but false color is a debayering problem) much less how to test it. Anyway it's of passing interest; I'm trying to cut Canon some slack here which is unduly generous.


----------



## AccipiterQ (Sep 16, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> Sneak peak at the 7D3. Complete with articulating iPhone 8 and Don's cat laser pointer hotshoe attachment




absolutely amazing.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

Robnormanphoto said:


> Ok..something has to be wrong...on the DPReview in section 4.Body and Design...it states
> 
> "The 7D Mark II uses a new battery, the LP-E6N, that has a higher capacity than the previous LP-E6 batteries found in the 5D Mark III and its predecessor. Importantly, though, the form factor remains the same, which means you should still be able to use the older LP-E6 batteries in it.



The DPR review could be wrong. The same review says the 7DII has spot metering linked to any AF point. Canon USA's website disagrees.


----------



## lo lite (Sep 16, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> I want to know why the 7D2 does not have a little laser light that shines where the camera is aimed? Everyone knows that the only use of APS-C cameras is to take pictures and videos of cats to put on the internet.... and the videos would be so much better if the cats were chasing that little red dot....
> 
> Come on Canon! This is a make or break feature! Why don't you have it!



It might sound funny but I actually wished for a feature like this, not for cat shots but for shots I take from my hip when doing street photography. Then it would be nice to know at which spot the AF is currently aiming. Of course the laser should be off during the shot itself.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 16, 2014)

Jackson_Bill said:


> I'm not so sure about that. A friend of mine with a 70D took some test shots and I don't think the 70D performance at 1600 is all that much better than my 7D. If so, Canon needs some magic in that "low light sensitivity" improvement to the 20.2 Mpixel sensor to make the 7Dii worthwhile, IMO. Without a usable 1600 (or higher) ISO, I'm thinking I wasted all this time waiting for the 7Dii and maybe the 5Diii is the answer.
> I'm definitely NOT pre-ordering.



That's only the answer if you can either get closer, or use a bigger lens (500/4 versus 300/4, 300/2.8 versus 200/2.8, etc.). If neither is the case, most likely the camera with the smaller pixels will win.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 16, 2014)

Jackson_Bill said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Jackson_Bill said:
> ...



There is no 800/4. If you compare the 800/5.6 on full-frame versus the 500/4 on crop, there won't be that much of a difference in noise in the final images. The full-frame camera will be a stop or so better, but shooting at a stop slower shutter speed.


----------



## ts636 (Sep 16, 2014)

I think the new camera sounds ace and I want one but I'm a bit miffed at the price here in the UK. at current exchange rates the US price of 1800$ works out at about £1100 and the European price of 1700 euros at about £1350. Yet we are to be charged £1600. Rip off Britain strikes again.


----------



## rslhc (Sep 16, 2014)

Sample images here: http://www.cameraegg.org/canon-eos-7d-mark-ii-sample-images-movies/

ISO 3200 looks great. 6400 looks pretty good too, but would like to see more samples.


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 16, 2014)

lo lite said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I want to know why the 7D2 does not have a little laser light that shines where the camera is aimed? Everyone knows that the only use of APS-C cameras is to take pictures and videos of cats to put on the internet.... and the videos would be so much better if the cats were chasing that little red dot....
> ...



So everyone on the street can run from the sniper target that just struck them in the chest....


----------



## weixing (Sep 16, 2014)

Hi,
Not sure anyone posted already, but here is the some 7D2 sample images (JPEG only) and video.
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7dmk2/

Have a nice day.


----------



## rpt (Sep 16, 2014)

AccipiterQ said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Sneak peak at the 7D3. Complete with articulating iPhone 8 and Don's cat laser pointer hotshoe attachment
> ...


About time man! Let's start on the 7D3 rumours now!


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 16, 2014)

lo lite said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I want to know why the 7D2 does not have a little laser light that shines where the camera is aimed? Everyone knows that the only use of APS-C cameras is to take pictures and videos of cats to put on the internet.... and the videos would be so much better if the cats were chasing that little red dot....
> ...


and what's really sad is that I had to try this out.....

BTW, the 60D does not have adequate high ISO performance to take good "laser pictures".... I KNEW there was a good reason why I need to upgrade to a 7D2


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

Nice, Don...but kludgy. You need a Firefield Weaver Camera Adapter (Amazon, $17) and a Weaver-mount laser sight (Amazon, $13); the laser sight is adjustable so you can put it at the desired spot in the frame. That'll give you a nice, slick-looking cat photo rig.


----------



## greger (Sep 16, 2014)

Kitties love to chase Lasers and String! 7Dll is released, YEAH!!! I look forward to the reviews. I won't buy unless my 7D gets damaged. I guess if I wan't WiFi and swivel LCD I'll have to borrow my wife's 70D. I've been reading about the 7Dll since I got up. ( not counting the posts in the months before it's release) Now I can do something productive like go take pics of my cat. ;D


----------



## ScubaX (Sep 16, 2014)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



My 5D3 did the same exact thing right after I got it back from CPS. I thought it might be a setting, but it turned out the lock button was on. Hope it's that simple for you, I never use mine so it took me a while to look at it - that was big "duh" moment.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2014)

Jackson_Bill said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > If wildlife stills were the only goal I'd definitely rather have the 7D2 over the 5D3.
> ...



Most of the time I end up totally reach limited when shooting wildlife. In that scenario the FF noise advantage goes away. If you can get close enough to frame as you with the FF, then sure, that is better (so long as you also get enough DOF shooting wide open).

But this would probably do at least as well for noise when reach limited as the 5D3 would and, when the light is a bit better, get you more detail as well. The AF also should be better than the 5D3 and it has more fps.

So for wildlife and nothing else, I'd lean this over the 5D3 for sure. Unless you tend to be able to shoot very close most of the time and the fps and potential AF difference doesn't matter.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2014)

Robnormanphoto said:


> Ok..something has to be wrong...on the DPReview in section 4.Body and Design...it states
> 
> "The 7D Mark II uses a new battery, the LP-E6N, that has a higher capacity than the previous LP-E6 batteries found in the 5D Mark III and its predecessor. Importantly, though, the form factor remains the same, which means you should still be able to use the older LP-E6 batteries in it.
> 
> ...



That does sound too low. I just shot about 3000 shots yesterday with my 5D3 on one battery. The 7D2 does have more chips in it though. OTOH it has a smaller mirror to move. OTOH it moves it faster. But yeah 670 sounds too low. I'd think it should it should manage at least 3000 on one battery and probably even more even despite the extra chips.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2014)

Jackson_Bill said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Jackson_Bill said:
> ...



Exmor doesn't really help at high ISO much. It's more at ISO100-800 where it helps.


----------



## vjlex (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm happy to admit and glad I was wrong about the price point. I thought for sure it was gonna be over $2000. Even though I'm not in the market for a new camera at the moment, I admit this 7D Mark II looks pretty good; the excelling point being the very reasonable price. I still don't understand the $3500 introductory price tag for the Mark III. I hope this 7D II sells well! And I hope when the 5D Mark IV does come that they don't make that mistake again. It's still unbelievable to me to think that the 5D Mark III started out at basically twice the price of the 7D Mark II...


----------



## Eldar (Sep 16, 2014)

I have played with some of the files at:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7dmk2/
And they look very promising to me. I will wait for more objective reviews, but it seems likely that I will get the 7DII as a supplement to my 1DX for birds and wildlife and keep on waiting for the high MP/high DR (at lower ISO) alternative ...


----------



## Deleted member 372972 (Sep 16, 2014)

Are there some japan speaking (reading) people there?
On web.canon.jp site is lot of information about the 7D Mark II
http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/7dmk2/feature-highquality.html

or this






There is a japan AF guide for the 7D Mark II
http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/7dmk2/img/pdf/af-guide.pdf


The google translation isn't great, but if right the sensor is made in a new process


> The new process introduced in the CMOS semiconductor process
> Order to ensure aperture ratio of the photodiode (photoelectric conversion efficiency) up and introduce low-profile and a new technical refinement process in CMOS semiconductor process. I was able by optimizing the device structure, to increase the light collection efficiency of the photodiode further. As a result, in spite of the pixel size reduced by the number of pixels, we have achieved high ISO sensitivity, low noise and a wide dynamic range.


----------



## Northstar (Sep 16, 2014)

I can't wait to read the DXO review of this sensor!! 8) :


----------



## Roo (Sep 16, 2014)

ts636 said:


> I think the new camera sounds ace and I want one but I'm a bit miffed at the price here in the UK. at current exchange rates the US price of 1800$ works out at about £1100 and the European price of 1700 euros at about £1350. Yet we are to be charged £1600. Rip off Britain strikes again.



It's the same here in Oz. I was hoping for a price of au$2000 based on the us$1799 price but it's being priced at au$2499. Maybe we'll get the US pricing if we get rid of the Union Jack from our flag ;D


----------



## whothafunk (Sep 16, 2014)

ts636 said:


> I think the new camera sounds ace and I want one but I'm a bit miffed at the price here in the UK. at current exchange rates the US price of 1800$ works out at about £1100 and the European price of 1700 euros at about £1350. Yet we are to be charged £1600. Rip off Britain strikes again.


European price in Slovenia means 2000 euros (2587$) and not 1700, as you stated.


----------



## lintoni (Sep 16, 2014)

Roo said:


> ts636 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the new camera sounds ace and I want one but I'm a bit miffed at the price here in the UK. at current exchange rates the US price of 1800$ works out at about £1100 and the European price of 1700 euros at about £1350. Yet we are to be charged £1600. Rip off Britain strikes again.
> ...


Ftfy


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 16, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> ts636 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the new camera sounds ace and I want one but I'm a bit miffed at the price here in the UK. at current exchange rates the US price of 1800$ works out at about £1100 and the European price of 1700 euros at about £1350. Yet we are to be charged £1600. Rip off Britain strikes again.
> ...



it´s 1699 euro in germany and that´s the official price from canon.


----------



## whothafunk (Sep 16, 2014)

order 1 for me and ill even add 20eur for your trouble


----------



## Datfish (Sep 16, 2014)

Roo said:


> It's the same here in Oz. I was hoping for a price of au$2000 based on the us$1799 price but it's being priced at au$2499. Maybe we'll get the US pricing if we get rid of the Union Jack from our flag ;D



F#@&^%$ Typical Of Canon Australia and Aussie Retailers....and they wonder why people shop on line offshore despite Canons "no Grey Import " Warranty conditions. That said the dollar has fallen to low 0.90 but not to 0.72!!!!!!

I bought my 5d3 in December 2012 online and paid $AUD 2900 for it then, not the $4000+ Australian sellers were wanting. I also paid and extra $200 for a Mack Diamond 3 Yr Warranty which I have not needed .....suggest those looking at the 7D2 in the near term look around and do the same......... and save heaps!


----------



## KacperP (Sep 16, 2014)

Noise performance is noticeably better than 7D.
Maybe I'm wrong but 60D/7D noise @ ISO 3200 is similar to 7D2 noise @ ISO 12800


----------



## marinien (Sep 16, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...



Wait ... sorry to come back to this: this feature was already implemented in the 7D (yes, the one which was out in 2009, page 90 user's manual). If I am not wrong, the 7D is the first Canon dSLR which has this feature. And just like Neuro, this was one of my most frequently used mode


----------



## Synkka (Sep 16, 2014)

$2499 is $2250 without tax convert it to USD based on 0.90 exchange rate is $2025, so it's still up but not too terrible. Canon Australia has actually been pricing better in recent times, but new products are over priced and there will always be an early adopter fee.
Anyway it will be interesting to see how it goes I suspect a lot of my birding friends will pick it up.


----------



## Justhandguns (Sep 16, 2014)

Just a quick question. Nobody has mentioned anything about micro adjustment on the MkII, any idea?


----------



## Khalai (Sep 16, 2014)

Justhandguns said:


> Just a quick question. Nobody has mentioned anything about micro adjustment on the MkII, any idea?



AFMA is a given, no need to think otherwise. That would be a shot in the foot with bazooka no less.


----------



## dufflover (Sep 16, 2014)

I eyeballed the ISO3200 and ISO800 samples against my 70D shots (unfortunately most unprocessed so it's a bit of a tricky RAW to JPG comparison), and the level of grain looks pretty much the same to me. Perhaps a tad sharper due to further improvements in the JPEG engine. I dunno to be lenient maybe 1/3 stop better than the 70D, which is ~1/3 more than the 7D. And I say these numbers as a rough guide of overall practical looks rather than specifically in grain or DR (e.g. reduced shadow banding and AA filter improvements).

Definitely not more than 1 stop. Heck FF is only about 2 stops lol bit over excited Kacper


----------



## Eldar (Sep 16, 2014)

Too tempting to pass, so I pushed the order button. Looking forward to verify its high(er) ISO performance and how it works on the 200-400 f4L IS 1.4x and 600 f4L IS II lenses. Looks very promising to me, especially the AF system.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

marinien said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



Indeed. I think many people just ignore the auto AF point selection modes entirely, not knowing about this capability even if they've used a camera for years. 

Bodies that have weaker tracking ability (xxxD, 5DII, 6D) can only initiate Servo from the center AF point when in auto AF point selection mode, but even those will 'hand off' to an outer point (or try to). But certainly Canon AF systems have had automatic point switching during tracking for many years, with the addition of metering data being a recent addition (2 years ago). Sony's 'innovation' that jrista was touting is merely coming up with a specific name ('Lock-on AF' for auto point switching, 'flexible spot' is Sony's name for what Canon calls AF point expansion) for a feature new to him, even though it's something Canon (and Nikon) cameras have done for years.


----------



## KacperP (Sep 16, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> KacperP said:
> 
> 
> > Noise performance is noticeably better than 7D.
> ...


3x NO
I checked samples from other sources. I'm not sure if they want to be mentioned here.
As I said "noise will tell", and now it does... at least for me


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 16, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> private message me those sources, please.
> 
> minus matt granger or whats his name.



how about PMing him then.. or is this of any interest for the rest of us? 8)

next time he?


----------



## puercaeli (Sep 16, 2014)

*Re: Japanese website 7D sensor description vs 70D*

I google translated 7D and 70D product page on Canon Japan.

And found that description for both sensors are very similar 
Similarities are: photo diode efficiency due to new semiconductor process, better SN ratio and gapless lens structure.
Difference: Penetrability of colour filter increased. SN ratio improvement is more implicitly mentioned.

My conclusion is: 
'Improved' 70D sensor coupled with Digic 6 -> higher ISO.

Sample picture on Canon Japan only goes upto 6400. Quick glance: It does not seem that much better than 70D..


----------



## Deleted member 372972 (Sep 16, 2014)

jrista said:


> in_04 said:
> 
> 
> > Are there some japan speaking (reading) people there?
> ...


Hi jrista,
try to google translate the description
デジタル 
フロントエンド
処理回路

But it didn't give a useful hint:
Digital 
Front-end 
Processing circuit 

On the A/D units the text is:
A/D 変換用 
フロントエンド
処理回路
which gives:
A/D conversion 
Front-end Processing circuit


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 16, 2014)

Matt Granger Reviews the Mark II

http://www.mattgranger.com/7d2


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 16, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> Matt Granger Reviews the Mark II
> 
> http://www.mattgranger.com/7d2



http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22790.0

more a joke than a review.


----------



## acorigli (Sep 16, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>The Canon EOS 7D Mark II digital SLR camera is designed to meet the demands of photographers and videographers who want a camera that can provide a wide range of artistic opportunities. With a winning combination of cutting-edge operations and a robust, ergonomic design, it is optimized to make even the most challenging photography simple and easy. The EOS 7D Mark II features a refined APS-C sized 20.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor with Dual DIGIC 6 Image Processors for gorgeous imagery. It shoots up to 10 frames per second at ISOs ranging from 100–16000 (expandable to H1: 25600, H2: 51200), has a 65-point* all cross-type AF system and features Canon’s amazing Dual Pixel CMOS AF for brilliant Live-View AF. It has dual card slots for both CF and SD cards, USB 3.0 connectivity and even has built-in GPS** for easy location tagging, automatically. Compatible with an ever-expanding collection of EF and EF-S lenses plus a host of EOS accessories, the EOS 7D Mark II is an ideal tool for creative and ambitious photography.</p>
> <p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d21.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-17287" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/7d21.jpg" alt="7d21" width="500" height="397" /></a></p>
> <p><strong>Canon EOS 7D Mark II Features</strong></p>
> <ul>
> ...




Four years... for this?

And I still not see improvements like that: YOU SHOULD ASK FOR MORE DYNAMIC RANGE, LESS NOISE, BETTER IMAGE QUALITY, AND FREE THE MEMORY, REMOVING THIS USELESS MOVIE SW.

Others ask for BLINKING problems... GLOWING BUTTONS... THAT´S WHY NOBODY TAKES YOU SERIOUSLY... GLOWING BUTTONS... shshsh


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 16, 2014)

An interview with Richard Walch on the 7D Mark II. Made by Swedish "Fotosidan" ->
http://vimeo.com/106236109


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

acorigli said:


> Four years... for this?
> 
> And I still not see improvements like that: YOU SHOULD ASK FOR MORE DYNAMIC RANGE, LESS NOISE, BETTER IMAGE QUALITY, AND FREE THE MEMORY, REMOVING THIS USELESS MOVIE SW.
> 
> Others ask for BLINKING problems... GLOWING BUTTONS... THAT´S WHY NOBODY TAKES YOU SERIOUSLY... GLOWING BUTTONS... shshsh



Actually, nobody takes _you_ seriously. Thanks for playing. Run along now, your temper tantrums indicate that it's past your bedtime.


----------



## Hillsilly (Sep 16, 2014)

acorigli said:


> Four years... for this?


Perhaps you can show us your D300s update and we'll compare them side by side. Oh...sorry, I forgot. Nikon don't make DX cameras for sports and wildlife photographers anymore.


----------



## Dylan777 (Sep 16, 2014)

Eldar said:


> Too tempting to pass, so I pushed the order button. Looking forward to verify its high(er) ISO performance and how it works on the 200-400 f4L IS 1.4x and 600 f4L IS II lenses. Looks very promising to me, especially the AF system.



Good to know your G.A.S still there Eldar 

I'm working on my 200mm f2 IS


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 16, 2014)

Hillsilly said:


> acorigli said:
> 
> 
> > Four years... for this?
> ...



While true... that has hardly anything to do with the 7D MK2.

I won´t say look at the specs of the NX1 because then i will only hear "but the Canon lens collection".

Fact is Canon could have included better features into the cam.
Give it more than a great AF.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

123Photog said:


> Fact is Canon could have included better features into the cam.
> Give it more than a great AF.



Such as a 150,000-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor, perhaps? :


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 16, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> 123Photog said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is Canon could have included better features into the cam.
> ...



well that´s again great help for tracking AF i guess.

as far as metering goes, i never had metering problems with my canons.
so it´s a solution for a problem i don´t have.

canon is perfecting features that are in the cameras already and that´s ok.
but there are things that could have made it into the camera.
focus peaking, zebras, 4k, wifi, RT controller etc.

that´s mostly stuff cheaper cameras offfer. :-\


----------



## rdc (Sep 16, 2014)

I read on Canon's website that the dual pixel AF doesn't work in 1080 60p, can someone confirm that?


----------



## lintoni (Sep 16, 2014)

rdc said:


> I read on Canon's website that the dual pixel AF doesn't work in 1080 60p, can someone confirm that?


If you've read it on Canon's website, what more confirmation do you need?


----------



## rdc (Sep 16, 2014)

lol, thanks for your input.

"The EOS 7D Mark II delivers refined and detailed EOS movie image quality with 
Full HD 60p (59.94 fps NTSC), and even 50.00 fps (PAL), recording at ISO values up to 
16000 (Dual Pixel CMOS AF is not available when shooting at 60p). At these frame 
rates, even a fast-moving subject looks looks smooth in HD."

It's mentioned along with 16,000 ISO. Is it only non-functional while using high iso? Or not at all in 1080 60p?

I should have clarified more, I should have known you'd be sitting on here all day waiting for it!


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 16, 2014)

rdc said:


> lol, thanks for your input.
> 
> "The EOS 7D Mark II delivers refined and detailed EOS movie image quality with
> Full HD 60p (59.94 fps NTSC), and even 50.00 fps (PAL), recording at ISO values up to
> ...



mhm.... no DPAF at 60p would sure suck.


----------



## Khalai (Sep 16, 2014)

123Photog said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > 123Photog said:
> ...



I'm just wondering at what occasion would a sport/wildlife photographer needed focus peaking, zebras or 4K video. I get that it should be included "just because the other ones do", but in reality, would those features mean anything to the main target group this camera is intended for?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

123Photog said:


> canon is perfecting features that are in the cameras already and that´s ok.
> but there are things that could have made it into the camera.
> focus peaking, zebras, 4k, wifi, RT controller etc.
> 
> that´s mostly stuff cheaper cameras offfer. :-\



There are lots of things cheaper cameras offer...most importantly, though...they're cheap.

Focus peaking and zebras? I've never had any trouble achiving proper manual focus in Live View, so those are solutions to problems I don't have. I have no need for 4K video, either... A built-in RT controller would be nice, but as I'd use a FF camera for studio work regardless, not too much help there, either. WiFi, I could take or leave.

I guess things that are important to you aren't important to everyone, and the same goes for things that are important to me. Canon could choose to put everything and the kitchen sink into their cameras, and maybe have menus as byzantine as some of those cheap cameras. 

Canon knows their target market well...


----------



## 123Photog (Sep 16, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> I guess things that are important to you aren't important to everyone,



no doubt about that.

but when cheap cameras offer these features and it would make MORE people happy.... what keeps canon from including them?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

123Photog said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I guess things that are important to you aren't important to everyone,
> ...



Unnecessary feature clutter. Additional development costs and time. Increased complexity of writing and maintaining firmware. 

One trivial example...orientation linked AF point, nice feature. Present on several cameras before the 1D X. Somehow on the 1D X initial firmware, enabling that setting 'broke' AFMA (caused it to fail to recognize previously AFMA'd lenses), a relatively unrelated function.

The more stuff you put in, the more stuff you have to test. Or...should test. Canon does a good job of supporting their cameras after release, including some major feature upgrades via free firmware, something not all manufacturers do.


----------



## hawkigrad (Sep 16, 2014)

Long time lurker here:

Any particular reason why nobody considers this camera for wedding photography as opposed to sports? I have used the 7D along side my 5D for years. It typically has my 70-200 F2.8 attached and I grab it for shots from the back such as ring exchange or if I'm relegated to the back of a church. Rarely do I ever have to exceed 1/60 F2.8 ISO 1600 which provides decent enough quality for those types of shots. Certainly I could use the 5D Mark III for this but the reach would not be long enough for the 200MM F2.8 I need for low light and cropping those shots would give around 10mp which might be pushing it for a 12 x 12 album spread. 

For me the better low noise shots compared to the 7D as well as dual memory card slots alone is enough reason to upgrade but I'll certainly benefit from the better AF in low light and for moving subjects as well. Anyone else planning on using the Mk II for weddings?


----------



## rdc (Sep 16, 2014)

123Photog said:


> rdc said:
> 
> 
> > lol, thanks for your input.
> ...



Forgive me as I continue to rant, this isn't directed at our discussion but more-so just a public rant.


Seemingly another feature that they have all the capability in the world to add, but won't because it creates a conflict with the cinema eos line. I asked Canon on their FB page with no detailed response yet, I can't believe more people aren't up in arms about this. Fine, leave out 4k - I don't need it but a big attraction to this camera for me (as a photographer and cinematographer equally) was the 1080 @ 60 AND Dual Pixel AF, can't find that type of camera anywhere near this price. I would have never imagined they would leave out the functionality of the two together. Glad I read the details before pre-ordering. 

IKIK, it's not made for video, it's made to shoot f*in birds. Why? My original 7d was probably made for the same thing, but I've used it successfully for video work for 3 1/2 years now. 

-The C100 AF is only in the center, and it only shoots 24. I really like using the 7d Mark I in 720 @ 60 for wedding dance stuff and just about everything actually. Slow-mo is dramatic and my customers like it, whether it be wedding or sports. Not to mention c100 is a bit out of my budget. 
-The 5d iii has no AF and no 1080 at 60. Going to have same issues with 6d (although my photos will be drastically better)
-The 70d was amazing, but just not enough low light performance for the dance floor stuff.

Time for a dedicated video camera I guess, maybe I'll scoop a 5dii for photo specific purposes and If I sell my car I can buy the new Sony fs7!


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 16, 2014)

rdc... canon has researched the market and your are irrelevant. a minority.

same as landscape shooter or people who like wifi.
every 120$ P&S has wifi now but canon flagship APS-C... no.

canon is for birders and pros on the sidelanes with 200-400mm or 600 f4 lenses. 

that is why i bought a nikon for landscapes. 
could not be more happy.


----------



## fragilesi (Sep 16, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> rdc... canon has researched the market and your are irrelevant. a minority.
> 
> same as landscape shooter or people who like wifi.
> every 120$ P&S has wifi now but canon flagship APS-C... no.
> ...



Not sure how to break it to you . . . but Canon do make other cameras.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Sep 16, 2014)

What do you guys think of the quoted battery life - 670 shots... you could theoretically run a battery dry in well under 2 minutes. When you take into account that you have a jpeg buffer of 1090, you'll run out of battery/CF-memory before the camera slows down. For some reason I predict a spike in Canon battery grip sales come November.


----------



## rdc (Sep 16, 2014)

I just don't understand that. If my assumption is correct, this feature is purposely left out. How much more would it cost to produce the 7dii with AF in [email protected] It's there in [email protected]

Making a camera for a specific purpose is great, but if you can sell more cameras with more features - for little or no extra cost .... why not?

I'm not talking about 4k, or 5d DR. They've clearly added some serious video features to this camera, why not leave it out completely if it's for shooting birds?

Apologize if this is all redundant in this thread, I just need to vent somewhere. May follow you to Nikon btw....

Edit: and who said some birders wouldn't need 1080 @ 60 with af?


----------



## Quest for Light (Sep 16, 2014)

fragilesi said:


> Quest for Light said:
> 
> 
> > rdc... canon has researched the market and your are irrelevant. a minority.
> ...



oh yes..?

like the 5D MK3 that offers me as much as a 5D MK2 as landscape shooter?

there was no UPGRADE path for me, that´s why i choose Nikons D800E.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 16, 2014)

rdc said:


> Time for a dedicated video camera I guess,....



An interesting question.

Has the technology for both evolved to a point where it is becoming impractical for one body to be able to offer both photographers and videographers all the capability they want?

Could a business case be made to Canon to make a camera that focuses (pun) on giving the customer the best technology for photographs and make a recorder that does the same thing for videographers?

Each product optimized for its specific customer base. 

I think there will always be a desire for a single system that does both. But for those customers who want optimized performance, would two systems be a viable solution?

In my case, I have no interest in video. I don't mind my camera having video capability as long as the photographic capability (image, body design, controls) are not compromised. 

My fear is that camera manufacturers, in their desire to be all things to all customers, may start making cameras that do both, but neither as well as it could be done.


----------



## rdc (Sep 16, 2014)

I can't disagree with you there.

I just feel like a enormous number of 7d users were using it for video. Not a clue what ratio we have there(7d video users/7d wildlife&sports users), but I'm also a very passionate surf photographer. The 7d was an incredible tool for both. They've continued to develop video features for the 7dii yet leave out some important ones. Again, I'm not talking about 4k or C100 Dynamic Range. We have new AF tech in video with the mark ii, new to the Canon DSLR line all together. Is this tech just a natural progression for Canon or a piece they spent serious time and effort developing?

On a positive note, I'm very excited to try/rent it for sports photo, it's going to be pretty cool to have 10fps.

I'm just sayin' - instead of pushing me out of the back of the truck, they could have sent me an e-mail or something. jk.


----------



## fragilesi (Sep 16, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> fragilesi said:
> 
> 
> > Quest for Light said:
> ...



As long as you're happy . . .


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 16, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> What do you guys think of the quoted battery life - 670 shots... you could theoretically run a battery dry in well under 2 minutes. When you take into account that you have a jpeg buffer of 1090, you'll run out of battery/CF-memory before the camera slows down. For some reason I predict a spike in Canon battery grip sales come November.



Battery life is according to CIPA standards. I don't know about the specific parameters, but they're conservative. That's particularly true if you shoot bursts. My 1D X is rated for ~1100 shots, when shooting bursts I have taken >2000 shots and had 65-70% remaining battery capacity.


----------



## Khalai (Sep 16, 2014)

Quest for Light said:


> there was no UPGRADE path for me, that´s why i choose Nikons D800E.



Good for you. Are you happy with it? What's the problem then?


----------



## sanj (Sep 16, 2014)

Northstar said:


> This camera is going to be a big hit...I might sell my 5d3 to buy this.



I doubt if that would be wise.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 16, 2014)

hawkigrad said:


> For me the better low noise shots compared to the 7D as well as dual memory card slots alone is enough reason to upgrade but I'll certainly benefit from the better AF in low light and for moving subjects as well. Anyone else planning on using the Mk II for weddings?


Welcome to the forum. 
I consider 7D Mark ii possibly a good camera for wedding photos. However, if someone want to shoot weddings at night without flash, 6D seems more appropriate.


----------



## slclick (Sep 16, 2014)

This is a niche product. It's only for shooting an Animal Wedding at a Motorsports event in Moab.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2014)

Khalai said:


> 123Photog said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



When shooting wildlife videos.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> rdc said:
> 
> 
> > Time for a dedicated video camera I guess,....
> ...



Plenty of the stuff could be done fully well in DSLRs, Canon just wants to reserve it for the ultra-premium Cxx lines.


----------



## NancyP (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey! I shoot a lot of these! ;D (slclick says "This is a niche product. It's only for shooting an Animal Wedding at a Motorsports event in Moab.")


----------



## StudentOfLight (Sep 16, 2014)

Khalai said:


> 123Photog said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


Come on wildlife photographer... zebras ... isn't it obvious?


----------



## Khalai (Sep 16, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> Come on wildlife photographer... zebras ... isn't it obvious?


In that case, I despise Canon for not including also elephants, giraffes and most importantly all the feline beasts


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2014)

Taking a hurried peak at a 7D2 RAW file, it seems like the gain vertical banding issue of the 7D may be entirely gone. Only took a very harried look though. It's hard to tell because the 7D2 has such a small black outer frame area in the RAW and I didn't have the program to check for the gain type in the mids and brights but it seems like it might be gone, none of the shots are close to lens cap shots, but there is a chance they got rid of all or nearly all of the offset banding at low ISO all together. So that is the very good and impressive news with possible both the 7D's weird vertical gain banding and the typical Canon offset dark shadow banding very low or gone, maybe.

The bad is that the random read noise still shows no improvements since 2007 whatsoever, as far as I can tell. It seems like it will be extremely close to the exact same DR as the 7D. The read noise might even be a touch higher than on the 7D. Not quite sure yet, didn't locate quite the proper 7D file or my old numbers. Without the banding, the effective usable DR should be higher though even though it seems like the engineering measured DR might be anywhere from a bit worse than the 7D to a trace better.


----------



## geonix (Sep 16, 2014)

I was at photokina today and could play around with the 7d2 a bit. I have to say I'm impressd. The IQ I could not really test, but the sample images of Matt Granger and Canon look very good to me concerning high ISO performance. 
What I liked very much, are the 10fps and the silent shutter mode. In normal shutter mode the 7D2 is already less loud than the 7D and in silent mode it was quite impressive. Although one should test this again under not-photokina conditions with less then hundreds of people around. The framrate in silent mode was still around 4-5 fps, the canon staff there couldn't make any specific statements on that. 

For the IQ, I'm sure we will not have to wait long for some detailed testing and an DXOMark score of around 69


----------



## gcookie (Sep 16, 2014)

I pre-ordered one today, on paper this doesn't seem like a big improvement. I hope I won't be disappointed. LCD size and no wifi are a poor start. The high ISO shots seem impressive. I hope it controls noise better than the 7D....Shutter noise is better; yea! My 7D sounds like a 1950 washing machine next to a Nikon.


----------



## dufflover (Sep 17, 2014)

geonix said:


> For the IQ, I'm sure we will not have to wait long for some detailed testing and an DXOMark score of around 69



I reckon it'll only score marginally better than the current 70D and lack behind the usual Sonikon comparisons on DXO. My 2c wager is a score of 70, and "Sports ISO" or whatever they call it, of ~950.
That's not me trying to be a smartass knocking the camera (considering I like my 70D lol) but my honest prediction. Happy if it shows improvements more than that.


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 17, 2014)

ZOMG, I see very obvious horizontal banding on the Image #5 [Portrait], look at the pretty model's sleeveless shirt!  Ankortwatt was right, Canon suX0rs canal water!!11 Teh Lulz.

http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos7dmk2/downloads/05.jpg


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 17, 2014)

BTW, there is a slight limitation with the 10FPS shooting rate and iTR AF tracking:



> 10 Figures quoted are when used with UDMA7 class cards and with iTR AF feature disabled. When iTR AF is enabled, continuous shooting has a maximum rate of approx. *9.5fps*


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 17, 2014)

in_04 said:


> Are there some japan speaking (reading) people there?
> 
> There is a japan AF guide for the 7D Mark II
> http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/7dmk2/img/pdf/af-guide.pdf




The English version of that AF configuration guide is here:

http://www.brochures.canon-europe.com/getFile.php?productid=9090&languageid=-1

Judging from that AF guide, the 7D2 AF configuration options are as numerous and flexible as the ones on the 1DX, maybe even a bit more so.


----------



## Steve (Sep 17, 2014)

Cool, it has Spot AF. I loved Spot AF on my 7D and miss it dearly on my 1DIV.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 17, 2014)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> ZOMG, I see very obvious horizontal banding on the Image #5 [Portrait], look at the pretty model's sleeveless shirt!  Ankortwatt was right, Canon suX0rs canal water!!11 Teh Lulz.
> http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos7dmk2/downloads/05.jpg


I see beautiful breasts. ;D Oops! 
I see horizontal stripes of fabric, but perhaps "one who can not say the name" could see bands of noise.
Each sees what they want to see. :


----------



## 2n10 (Sep 17, 2014)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> ZOMG, I see very obvious horizontal banding on the Image #5 [Portrait], look at the pretty model's sleeveless shirt!  Ankortwatt was right, Canon suX0rs canal water!!11 Teh Lulz.
> 
> http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos7dmk2/downloads/05.jpg



Very pronounced and so sharp. Unbelievable. :


----------



## jrista (Sep 17, 2014)

2n10 said:


> Mark D5 TEAM II said:
> 
> 
> > ZOMG, I see very obvious horizontal banding on the Image #5 [Portrait], look at the pretty model's sleeveless shirt!  Ankortwatt was right, Canon suX0rs canal water!!11 Teh Lulz.
> ...



They seem to have improved color fidelity. I don't see much of the classic "Canon Waxworks" muddy base colors in that shot.


----------



## Aglet (Sep 17, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Taking a hurried peak at a 7D2 RAW file, it seems like the gain vertical banding issue of the 7D may be entirely gone. Only took a very harried look though. It's hard to tell because the 7D2 has such a small black outer frame area in the RAW and I didn't have the program to check for the gain type in the mids and brights but it seems like it might be gone, none of the shots are close to lens cap shots, but there is a chance they got rid of all or nearly all of the offset banding at low ISO all together. So that is the very good and impressive news with possible both the 7D's weird vertical gain banding and the typical Canon offset dark shadow banding very low or gone, maybe.
> 
> The bad is that the random read noise still shows no improvements since 2007 whatsoever, as far as I can tell. It seems like it will be extremely close to the exact same DR as the 7D. The read noise might even be a touch higher than on the 7D. Not quite sure yet, didn't locate quite the proper 7D file or my old numbers. Without the banding, the effective usable DR should be higher though even though it seems like the engineering measured DR might be anywhere from a bit worse than the 7D to a trace better.



Holy cow, we're hoping!
at least we can deal with random-ish noise

This might be the first Canon crop body to break 70 on DxOmark score.

_EDIT: tho as a counterpoint, I've just been somewhat impressed with the tiny pixels in my Oly EM10 at iso 25600... score 72_


----------



## 2n10 (Sep 17, 2014)

jrista said:


> 2n10 said:
> 
> 
> > Mark D5 TEAM II said:
> ...



I agree, it did look quite nice and clean.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 17, 2014)

Currently #1 on Amazon's best sellers list.


----------



## daniela (Sep 17, 2014)

We have been on the photokina yesterday. Maybe not the best idea to go there on the first day. But I got some interesting impressions about what to come and how big you can advertise products with small improvements.
The evening was much more impressive, I was able to talk to product specialists.

They think that the 7DII will be the same big seller like the 7D was: Because the product got better, and there are no competitors on the market. Nikon will not bring out an D400 or an better D7100 in the near future. And the mirrorless cameras are getting better too, but the whole concept has still some weaknesses. To fix this, it will still take 2-3 years. Then the first mirrorless cameras will be able to beat current SLRs. Sony is hurrying to invent 24MP chips with the same low light features as their current 12MPs. And they will have enough money to do so, as some companies are interested in their sensors. They rumores that Canon is not hurrying to create an ground-breaking new mirrorless cam, there are exact plans existing when Canon will repond to the threat. 
I asked if the sensor is really so much better, but I just got some meaningless marketing statements, as they do not know it either. It is improved, but how much, just e few persons know. But they told me that there were a few different bodies in practical testing and the 20MP sensor had the best over all results. 
Information about the 5DIV and 1DX successors are under NDA, no comments on those products. "Canon is improving their products periodically". 

The shows are well organisated, but overall it is not as impressive as it was some years ago, when each brand was advertising much more new products. But it is clear that there will be an end on the product inflation.

Who will be on the show today?


----------



## alistairm1 (Sep 17, 2014)

Not sure what impact this will have on EXMOOR availability in the future.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29233644


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 17, 2014)

alistairm1 said:


> Not sure what impact this will have on EXMOOR availability in the future.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29233644



Exmoor is where they have lots of deer and heather 

In your link I didn't see any analysts saying " Exmor will save Sony stock !" 

Or even Exmor anything.........


----------



## Larry (Sep 17, 2014)

Justhandguns said:


> Just a quick question. Nobody has mentioned anything about micro adjustment on the MkII, any idea?



Mentioned it in my previous (last 2) posts.

DPR references AFMA in their preview, ...yes, the 7DII has it.


----------



## 2n10 (Sep 17, 2014)

Larry said:


> Justhandguns said:
> 
> 
> > Just a quick question. Nobody has mentioned anything about micro adjustment on the MkII, any idea?
> ...



I can not find the review I saw it on but supposedly it will be on the long *and* short ends for zooms.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 17, 2014)

2n10 said:


> Larry said:
> 
> 
> > Justhandguns said:
> ...



Correct.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 17, 2014)

jrista said:


> alistairm1 said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure what impact this will have on EXMOOR availability in the future.
> ...



Fat lot of good that's going to do anyone who has bought into the Sony camera and lens system though. 

Just one more reason I would not buy into any system except Canon or Nikon.



Sporgon said:


> Exmoor is where they have lots of deer and heather



Had to look it up. The name sounded Scottish and I was afraid they might be taking it with them, but looking at the map, it appears it's safe from those Highlanders for now...oh wait...I might be Scottish...not sure though...I think we got thrown out a couple of centuries ago...but I used to have a Gordon Black Watch tie.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 17, 2014)

jrista said:


> True...however, one doesn't need to buy into the whole Sony system. You can just buy their bodies (which are ephemeral anyway, from every manufacturer, unlike lenses), and use an adapter to attach your Canon lenses. Stick with the Canon "system", but gain the benefit of Exmor with the rest of that system.



Do you still get the same fast focusing?



> If Sony somehow did end up belly up...eh, no real harm done...most people would have replaced an old A7whatever body in a couple years anyway.



Well, maybe if it is a Sony. I just finished a huge shoot using nothing but my over 10 year old 20D, and I got more glowing comments on this shoot than on any shoot ever. I plan to buy two new (Canon) cameras in the next 6 months, and I plan to keep them for at least 10 years.


----------



## nvsravank (Sep 19, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> tayassu said:
> 
> 
> > I just read the best thing about this camera over at DPreview!!! It's got spot metering linked to the AF point!!! I've been hoping for that and thought they would never build this into a non-1-series camera!!! I love it!!
> ...



This has made the decision for me easier. Now I got two cameras for the price of 1dx and that serves me better - a 5d mark III and a higher reach 7d mark II both with great focussing.


----------



## DiSnapper (Sep 19, 2014)

Any clue on when these will be on sale in India?


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 19, 2014)

jrista said:


> I don't think that most enthisiasts, semi-pros, or pros are going to sit on a camera body for ten years. I think your average consumer tends to churn through cameras at a pretty fast rate as well, although there are certainly some who stick with what they've got as long as they can to get the most for their money.



The vast majority of dSLR purchasers never buy another one. Only pros and genuine enthusiasts do. Of all the people I know that have dSLRs, almost all of them still use the first one they ever bought. I'll provide a list of people I know, aside from me - 10D, D70, 5DII, Rebel XT, 300D, T2i, T4i. In fact, of everyone I know, only one person aside from me has ever "upgraded" and that was to move from Canon (40D) to Nikon (D200 - still using that one). And my upgrade was from 10D to 5D when the 5D first came out.

This next path (looking like 20D+5D to 7D2+6D) will be my first body upgrade since 2005. I've cycled through a great many lens changes since my first DSLR purchase (17-40L, 28-135IS, 75-300IS, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 35/2, 35/1.4L, Sigma 20/1.8, Sigma 15mm fisheye, 100/2, 85/1.8, 24-105L, 70-200/2.8L IS, 70-200/2.8L IS II, Tamron 1.4x, Tamron 2x, Kenko Pro 1.4x, Canon 1.4x II Canon 2x III, Meade ETX-125PE, Celestron Edge HD 11).


----------



## spinola (Sep 19, 2014)

7D2 sensor = 70D sensor


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 19, 2014)

spinola said:


> 7D2 sensor = 70D sensor



The performance is similar (I'd call it a 1/3 stop advantage or so), the sensors are different.


----------



## Zv (Sep 20, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that most enthisiasts, semi-pros, or pros are going to sit on a camera body for ten years. I think your average consumer tends to churn through cameras at a pretty fast rate as well, although there are certainly some who stick with what they've got as long as they can to get the most for their money.
> ...



I'm with Jrista on this one based on my experience and living in Japan where buying a new camera every 6 months seems to be the norm. My 5D2 feels very outdated amongst the multitude of 6D and 5D3's out there (some of them are definitely not pro). Perhaps in the past people held on to their gear for longer but (mainly thanks to Sony) things are changing rapidly so naturally folk want to keep up. I can't imagine keeping my 5D2 (which I bought 2 years ago) for any longer than another year, simply because by then it will be really hard to sell. 

Also camera's have come down in price considerably so it's easier to justify a new purchase. I went through 3 bodies in 4 years, not even including my EOS M. And I consider that conservative. It's like PCs and laptops now. Who keeps a laptop for 10 years? Yeah it works but why burden yourself with slow ass gear when you can buy the latest for a few hundred bucks? 

My longest kept electronic device is a hi-fi that my dad bought me about 20 years ago. Still works (but the speakers gave way ages ago). I only kept it for sentimental reasons. The thing is giant and a first generation iPod could easily outperform it! So in that respect I get why someone might keep a camera for ages.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 20, 2014)

Zv said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



I generally keep computers for 7 years, and I don't buy low end junk for a few hundred bucks. I bought my stereo in 1989 and have replaced a component here and there over time. It will still blow the doors off 99% of the sound systems in modern theaters. I just bought a set of binoculars I intend to keep for the rest of my life (Canon 10x42L IS - highly recommended). I've had my model airplane fleet for 28 years basically in all original condition until last year when I finally upgraded to state of the art propultion and radio systems. I generally keep cell phones for 5-7 years. Until a few weeks ago, my three cars were an 88, 01 and 04.

Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is painful and expensive. I only upgrade to gain a major new capability that I didn'thave before and that I will use all the time.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 20, 2014)

I work in a national laboratory with a bunch of engineers like myself. Few people I know are upgraders. Most drive older cars, few have DSLRs, most keep computers longer than I do.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 20, 2014)

Maybe it's less about demographic and more about personality. I'm on my fourth dSLR in five years. A friend with the office next to mine (a peer on the 'corporate ladder') is just starting to consider getting a new dSLR as an upgrade to his 20D and 2*8*-70/2.8L.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 20, 2014)

jrista said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



interesting, I guess it all depends on who you see in your circles. In my circles of friends and family (not including those who are photographers), only a few own dslr's. The parents and their contemporaries have P&S camera's. The vast majority rest use their phones. 

Of those who do own dslr's, vast majority will use that camera until they break it or lose it. Features that we desire won't sell to that crowd ....DR???  yeah right, unless the camera has more computer in it to do on the spot PP, or more advanced presets that offer more image manipulation control DR won't sell. DR will only make a difference in post process and most common users don't do any post process. Seriously though, the average user is going to be in Auto everything mode, shooting to jepg. Most will never read their manual!!!! So yeah, what sells to the average user, advanced sensor's for pixel peepers or instagram-like presets???


----------



## Zv (Sep 20, 2014)

jrista said:


> I'm sure there are multiple factors that go into it.
> 
> Location, for example. I live in Colorado...big landscape state. I think people also generally look to DSLRs to give them better landscape photos than their phones. Once mirrorless quality kicks up, I suspect most will go for the smaller, more portable and easier to use mirrorless options instead of DSLRs. We also have plenty of wildlife here, and two large migration seasons for birds. I see a LOT of average people at the local state parks photographing birds and wildlife with DSLRs and moderately long telephoto lenses.
> 
> ...



Yeah, that last point about connectivity is a good one and something smartphones do exceptionally well. A lot of times I find myself grabbing my iPhone and snapping a pic of a product I want to sell (like on a used items forum) or a document (such as an ID card for work) I want to quickly email as it eliminates that extra step of transferring it to a computer. Combine that ability with something like a G7 X and hell yeah I'll take some of that! Getting your media to the masses as soon as things happen seems to be the trend nowadays rather than three weeks later when no one really cares. 

Lee Jay I can't imagine having a cellphone for 7 years!  so curious, what kind is it??


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 20, 2014)

Zv said:


> Lee Jay I can't imagine having a cellphone for 7 years!  so curious, what kind is it??



All of them I've ever had, several brands. I'm only 2 years into my Galaxy S3 at the moment. Haven't considered upgrading.

I live in Colorado too, the "big landscape state". I think I've taken about 5 landscapes in my life, and only one of them in Colorado. That was a big panorama taken with a state of the art camera, a Nikon Coolpix 950!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 20, 2014)

jrista said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



If "the norm" for dSLR owners in Colorado is landscape photography and obsession about DR, then you're right on target. 

I suspect that once again, you're assuming your needs/wants/habits are those of the majority. They're not.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 20, 2014)

Oh, I know John Fielder's work, I just don't find landscapes to be interesting, from anyone. They're worth a 1 second glance and that's it for me.

I don't go hiking anywhere because I'm allergic to all grasses, all flowers and most trees.


----------



## RodS57 (Sep 20, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay I can't imagine having a cellphone for 7 years!  so curious, what kind is it??
> ...



Although this is obviously not related to the subject of this thread I find it more interesting then the constant 'It has / It doesn't have.' posts related to the 7D2. 

I think upgrading is more personal inclination than anything else. My cell is 2006 vintage as is my main computer. I still have a record player that I bought in 1974. Sort of the old adage: if it's not broke don't fix it. I used my 4meg P&S for 8 years and only picked up the T3i two years ago. I do have the 7D2 on pre-order as my renewed interest in photography has highlighted some of the deficiencies of the T3i.

I also think the purchase / upgrade cycle is affected by association as well. A year and a half ago a guy at work used to bring in new pictures to show people almost every day. All of a sudden there were people, who had shown no interest in photography, coming to work showing of the cameras they had just bought. Maybe it is the 'keep up with the neighbours' syndrome.

Rod


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 20, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



You seriously don't think that landscape photography is a big thing, in of all places, Colorado?


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 20, 2014)

jrista said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



You do realise that John Fielder uses Canon I presume ?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 20, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



I'm sure landscape photography is popular in Colorado. There's a difference between 'popular' and 'the norm'. What fraction of dSLRs sold in Colorado are bought for landscape photography compared to, for example, Devner parents wanting to take pictures of their kids? 

Also, note what I stated..."landscape photography _*and*_ obsession about DR." I think the number of people who frequent Internet forums writing post upon post lamenting Canon's supposed lack of DR and extolling the virtues of Exmor (despite not having actually used one), who download pictures someone else took of Diet Coke boxes and re-process them to prove a point, etc., is an insignificant fraction of dSLR owners, in Colorado or anywhere else. 

As Sporgon points out, the 'exceptionally well known' landscape photographer John Fielder mentioned by jrista shoots Canon. He has this to say: "_I recommend Canon over any other brand._"

John Fielder is pretty well known, and creates very impressive images. Gotta feel bad for him though, since according to jrista he's wasting an inordinate amount of time struggling to overcome the severe limitations and liabilities of Canon sensors. I wonder...is Fielder a glutton for punishment and too stubborn to move to a much better system? Is he too ignorant to be cognizant of and comprehend how he's suffering and how easy it would be to change his life and photography for the better if only he'd switch to Exmor? Or perhaps, just perhaps, is jrista's opinion about how poor Canon sensors are for landscape photography not such 'the norm' as he apparently believes?


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 20, 2014)

The daily dictionary offers these two words for the day:

*Forward* - a direction, a movement that leads somewhere
*Iterate* - _see_ Iterate


----------



## Eldar (Sep 21, 2014)

jrista said:


> You guys are so vehemently against anyone saying anything negative about Canon that you readily stoop to twisting peoples words, or handily assuming they said something other than they did, then repeating those assumptions as though they are fact. I'm a Canon fan myself, I'm just sick and tired of their nasty crappy read noise. I literally cannot wait for Canon to produce a better sensor (something I believe they are more than capable of doing)...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.


jrista, for what it´s worth, I totally agree! Canon is behind and they should take us more seriously. I have never understood the enormous urge some have to defend Canon for their sensor quality. We should stand shoulder to shoulder and make sure Canon is aware of what we think.

It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon, because it is flat where I live and fuel is cheap and I don´t want to be caught speeding and the roads are pretty straight and it never gets really hot ... 

IF Canon had delivered the D800 sensor performance and not Nikon. I am confident that we would have seen loads of posts here, praising Canon for the sensor performance and ridiculing the poor sods in the Nikon camp.

I was inches away from getting the Pentax 645z this summer. I didn´t, for three reasons. I was (unrealistically) hoping for a d810 basher at Photokina, I am a bit skeptical to the Pentax lens lineup and I don´t want to carry more equipment on a trip. But my patience is running thin.

I have been a very good Canon customer. Edward (eml58) is an even better Canon customer, whom I understand is even more impatient than me. I give advice to lots of people about camera systems, which I am sure lots of you others are doing also. In the past I have faithfully recommended Canon. In some cases I still do, depending on what they need, but very often I now recommend other brands. 

Yes, I know I am only one and yes I know some will say that I am not typical. But I shoot people, landscape, wildlife, macro, events, sports and pretty much anything I come across. So I am not in an obscure corner of the photographic world. I want my portfolio to cover everything. If we all were offered a Canon camera with 40MP, with 14 stop DR and fps and ISO performance in line with what we have, Where you could do 20MP MRAW when you didn´t need the full resolution, or have an APS-C mode with full resolution, I don´t believe a single soul on this forum would say no and continue to defend the current Canon sensor performance.

This is very simple; If you want something in life, make your position heard. So instead of bashing jrista for his views and his sometimes not 100% thought through points (how could they be at that writing speed ), you should agree on the substance and help push Canon to deliver what we want.


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 21, 2014)

jrista said:


> ...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.



I know everyone uses hyperbole sometimes, but after that speech, your next post had better show a receipt for a D810.


----------



## Eldar (Sep 21, 2014)

9VIII said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > ...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.
> ...


Impressive! You really got the point ... :


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 21, 2014)

Eldar said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are so vehemently against anyone saying anything negative about Canon that you readily stoop to twisting peoples words, or handily assuming they said something other than they did, then repeating those assumptions as though they are fact. I'm a Canon fan myself, I'm just sick and tired of their nasty crappy read noise. I literally cannot wait for Canon to produce a better sensor (something I believe they are more than capable of doing)...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.
> ...



That is not an appropriate analogy. The 'defence' of the current Canon sensors only begins when someone claims that the Exmor has basically made the Canon redundant overnight, and that the Canon is 'only suitable for landscapes up to 10x8', or 'posting on Facebook', or 'noise / banding is so bad I can't use the camera'. 

In normal use, at low ISO, there is simply no difference. In the scheme of things very few people want to lift shadows by three stops. In fact I would go so far as the say the tonal graduation on the 1Dx is probably better. Certainly within the professional business of photography in which I deal the general concessus was that in the days of the D3x Nikon had the edge on pure 'IQ'. Opinion has generally changed since the arrival of the 1Dx. 

If you are looking to realise more image quality than can be produced by your 1Dx I would strongly advise looking at the Pentax 645z rather than a D810. I wouldn't worry too much on the lenses because once you own the camera you will establish when and where you use it and I think you will find the lenses are OK. Also you could adapt the many Pentax 67 lenses, though don't expect ultra sharp images.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Sep 21, 2014)

[CR-0] 
I can't wait for Nikon to announce their D810-C, . i.e Nikon D810 with Canon EF mount.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 21, 2014)

Eldar said:


> It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon...



Interesting that your analogy includes not just the engine, but the transmission, handling, drive train, and ergonomics. It almost sounds like you're talking about _system_ performance... ???

If you believe another brand offers better overall system performance, and you can afford to switch, you should switch. It's that simple. 

Now...if you prefer the overall system performance of your system, but prefer one particular aspect of another brand's system, then you're in something of a pickle. Now, instead of being able to take independent action, you are asking a major corporation to make a particular change – and the spend associated with that change – for _you_. If you happen to be one of a majority of their customers clamoring for that change, you'll likely get it (much like the 5DIII getting a massive AF improvement over the 5DII). But if you're part of a small minority asking for that change, be prepared for disappointment. 

I'm not saying more MP or more DR are bad things. I'm not saying they're not useful. I'm saying if you want something, and the majority of a company of a company's customers/market don't see that as a need, you're probably not going to get what you want. That's reality, and shooting the messenger won't change it.


----------



## zim (Sep 21, 2014)

Wouldn't this whole sensor read noise debate not be better served over at http://forums.usa.canon.com
They do actually have Canon people participating in those forums, ineffective? Certainly no less so than here!


----------



## Eldar (Sep 21, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon...
> ...


The only thing Nikon/Sony (and a few other) have that I want is the sensor. The car analogy was poor, because I should have made a less broad metaphor. I don't want a D810. i don't want a 645z either. I want a 1DX body with a 40MP (or thereabout) sensor, with significant DR improvement. If I could get a MRAW around 20MP and an APS-C mode with full resolution and +8 fps I promis to be a good boy for a very long time. 

Yes, for 95% of my shooting, a 1DX is perfect and for those 95% I love that camera. But I want the remaining 5% also.

The majority of Canon's SLR customers, pros and enthusiasts excluded, buys into a brand and does not have a clue about these issues. Canon is well aware of that.

Having read some of these threads, I wonder which messenger you refer to.


----------



## East Wind Photography (Sep 21, 2014)

I kind of agree with you. If people are ready to jump ship to someone other than Canon due to read noise they are blindly ignoring the other aspects of Canon cameras that makes them far better than the competition.

I for one wont invest in Nikon due to their consistent unreliability. They are fine for consumers who use them for fun but when your livelihood and reputation are on the line you want equipment that will not break down in the harshest of conditions.

If the shots you are taking as so specialized that read noise is deal breaker then maybe you should be looking at some other technology that involves chip cooling and other technologies specifically designed for low light, high gain, photography.

No one likes noise in their images but don't ignore the other aspects that make Canon a better choice.

Those that speak for others on this forum are completely out of line. Some of the images that are posted are better than top of the class and to say they are "impatient" with Canons noise progress is pretty ridiculous and invalidates most of their points and consideration here.






zim said:


> Wouldn't this whole sensor read noise debate not be better served over at http://forums.usa.canon.com
> They do actually have Canon people participating in those forums, ineffective? Certainly no less so than here!


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 21, 2014)

Eldar said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



8) I've got my blinders on and I don't believe anything you say. 
I'm just not done waiting.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Canon never makes another sensor it'll still be a long time before Nikon has a system that I want to switch to.
Maybe when they have a 64MP sensor, or come out with a good budget 400mm lens (their latest 80-400 is still a hunk of junk at the long end).
I don't want Jrista to go away, I want him to get that camera and enjoy it.


----------



## Eldar (Sep 21, 2014)

9VIII said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...


He he, if we skip the "don't believe" bit, we seem to agree 
(i'll stay a long time also, but I'll stop buying new Canon gear)


----------



## marinien (Sep 21, 2014)

Jackson_Bill said:


> marinien said:
> 
> 
> > And just like Neuro, this was one of my most frequently used mode
> ...



No no, not Zone AF  . Zone AF doesn't let you choose the initial AF point. The mode that Neuro and I were talking about is Automatic AF Point Selection (yes, the one for people who don't really care about what should be in focus). And when you are in Automatic AF Point Selection *AND* AI Servo, you can select the initial AF point for tracking  (I know, it is not really intuitive, and may be that's why the feature's been there for 5 years and still is ignored by some). The advantage of this mode is that all the AF points are used for tracking, so when the subject quits the initial AF point, the other points will take care of it.

YMMV, but I'd avoid using Spot AF combined with AI Servo. Spot AF uses a narrower area for acquiring focus, so it is slower to acquire focus, and it is more difficult to keep the subject within that (narrower) area. 

Here are some photos I took with my 7D and my 100mm L Macro, I wish I had the 1D X/5D III and the 70-200mm f/2.8 II L IS for these situations, but that was all I could afford


----------



## unfocused (Sep 22, 2014)

jrista said:


> I also do believe it is a fact that Canon sensors are at the back of the pack these days. I believe their noise quality sucks, and that they should do something about it...
> 
> You guys are so vehemently against anyone saying anything negative about Canon that you readily stoop to twisting peoples words, or handily assuming they said something other than they did, then repeating those assumptions as though they are fact...
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, but this just begs for a response.

No one has tried to stop you from posting your opinion. In fact if someone were to do a word count of all posts on this forum, I'd bet you would come in at number one.

But posting your opinion doesn't make you right and others have every right to disagree and point out where you are wrong.

The problem I see is that you cannot accept the validity of anyone else's opinion and insist that the problems you think exist with Canon sensors are critical and real, when many others feel strongly that the issues you raise are grossly exaggerated, insignificant, rely on faulty data, imaginary or simply not that important.

That doesn't make you smarter or more discerning than others and it certainly doesn't make you right and others wrong.

Lately as more and more people have disagreed with your rants (and many can only be described as rants) you've taken to playing the martyr. Which is amply demonstrated by the quotes above. 

Frankly Neuro, Sporgon, DTaylor, Private and many others have been remarkably patient in responding and refuting your claims, as well as in presenting alternative views. 

Yet your post shows that you can't seem to handle the criticism and lash out at those who disagree. 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to think your opinion is a bunch of crap and to say so, because after all, no matter how much pseudo science you wrap it in, it is nothing more than your opinion.


----------



## zlatko (Sep 22, 2014)

Eldar said:


> jrista, for what it´s worth, I totally agree! Canon is behind and they should take us more seriously. I have never understood the enormous urge some have to defend Canon for their sensor quality. We should stand shoulder to shoulder and make sure Canon is aware of what we think.
> 
> ....
> 
> IF Canon had delivered the D800 sensor performance and not Nikon. I am confident that we would have seen loads of posts here, praising Canon for the sensor performance and ridiculing the poor sods in the Nikon camp.



Whenever I read "Canon has fallen behind" I start to wonder if there is something to that claim, but then I go and look at the latest photos I've made with Canon and all is good again. In fact, better than good. And when I look at raw files shot with Nikon sensors, I have to scratch my head and ask what the heck the fuss is about. The files aren't the slightest bit more appealing to me, and the color is often worse. 

I don't have any "enormous urge" to defend Canon, but I do have a real self-interest in having cameras that do what I need from them. I tried Nikon in 2011 and was not impressed. If their sensors offered some special magic for me, I would switch and would not be reading Canon Rumors. Within 2 weeks, everything Canon would be sold on eBay and shipped to new owners, and a load of new Nikon gear would be at my door.

If Canon made a camera with the D800 / D810 sensor, I would be very happy for the photographers for whom it met a need, but I would not buy it myself. I simply don't need what it offers, and Canon is already delivering what I want. I don't shoot all of the subjects that you shoot, and I understand that different photographers have different needs. I don't understand someone sticking with Canon if it doesn't meet their needs.


----------



## wickidwombat (Sep 22, 2014)

jrista said:


> It's not _that _people disagree...it's _how _they disagree...well, how a few specific people disagree. I've been compared to Mikael a few times, in thinly veiled contempt...a guy who came here for no other reason than to spew anti-Canon hate about everything Canon. Yeah, that's a bit insulting, and I took offense to it. I've never spewed anti-Canon hate...just a distaste for their sensor IQ.
> 
> Whatever. You guys are sick and tired of hearing it, I'm sick and tired of debating it. I won't be bothering anyone anymore with my opinions. That should make a few of you ecstatic. :-X



You are nothing like that nutjob...

Also I don't think there is anyone here that believes canons sensor is better than sonikon in low iso DR either. 

But I am one of many who are TOTALLY over seeing EVERY SINGLE thread get sidetracked and railroaded into these discussions / debates.

Personally I still prefer the canon system overall. Yeah the sensor could be better, but hey i'll keep bracketing while i wait for a 24 stop DR sensor to come out.

I have personally compared the EOS-M and the sony a6000 side by side since and overall i still prefer the EOS-M about the only aspect I saw the a6000 better the EOS-M was iso 100 shadow recovery, high iso was a wash, AF was not much different the a6000 seems to lock nice and quick but most shots were out of focus and i find with the right lens the EOS-M performs pretty well in servo mode. certainly better than the a6000 did anyway as far as sharp keepers go.

Anyway i certainly am one who is looking forward to less constant debating this as it is really boring.


----------



## Woody (Sep 22, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> I have personally compared the EOS-M and the sony a6000 side by side since and overall i still prefer the EOS-M about the only aspect I saw the a6000 better the EOS-M was iso 100 shadow recovery, high iso was a wash, AF was not much different the a6000 seems to lock nice and quick but most shots were out of focus and i find with the right lens the EOS-M performs pretty well in servo mode. certainly better than the a6000 did anyway as far as sharp keepers go.



Thanks for this highly important info. 

I find it highly disturbing the A6000 AF is this poor. I actually have similar encounter with the OMD EM-5 but dare not bring it up 'cos folks will think I am crazy. ;D I attributed it to the slow EVF response when the subject moved.

Good to know the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side. ;D

I am still waiting for EOS-M3 with DPAF and EVF. Guess M3 with 22 f/2 lens will be better than the best compact camera (incl. G7X, LX100 and RX100M3) out there.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 22, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Frankly Neuro, Sporgon, DTaylor, Private and many others have been remarkably patient in responding and refuting your claims, as well as in presenting alternative views.



Frankly, at least one of the 'remarkably patient' and 'fair' bunch tried, seemingly behind the scenes in league with a moderator, on another website to silence anyone who dared to bring up any aspect that Canon was not best at while spouting out and out lie after lie and tried to get it arranged that anyone who said Canon wasn't the best at everything would get banned for two weeks.

And, frankly, some of the 'remarkably patient' bunch here toss around veiled or otherwise insults all the time and at least one posts stuff that he is too smart to know is true and more often posts stuff that is knowingly misleading and then turns around and mocks others all while acting like they are taking the high road.

Maybe some of us have become monsters here, but most of us were pushed and tweaked and mocked for a long while first. Granted it's better to resist, but I guess it's easy to become a monster yourself after having dealt with monsters for along time.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 22, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> lamenting Canon's supposed lack of DR and extolling the virtues of Exmor



See there you go again. Here you try to bring up doubt that Canon is behind in DR or that even if they are that it could ever mean anything. And yet when you finally get called out and backed into a corner as in your post later on, you are like "who me? fanboy? nobody here ever tries to admit that Exmor doesn't have more DR"

So which is it??? You try to have it both ways for everything. Mock and snipe and make fun of people, but always the guy who takes the high road. Play down, hide, deny differences in anything Canon is behind in, aside from here or there when you post some high and mighty post about how nobody ever does such things and of course nobody claims that Canon is best at every last single thing and then you are right back to it again.

Maybe I've become a little bit of a jerk poster here and there at times more and more and go on about things and maybe some other too, but after years of BS and mocking and sniping, sorry for becoming a monster too and sorry for getting sick of some trying to purposefully astro-turf forums and mislead at times.


----------



## AmselAdans (Sep 22, 2014)

...better than any soap opera...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 22, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > lamenting Canon's supposed lack of DR and extolling the virtues of Exmor
> ...



There is a difference between 'Exmor has more DR than Canon' and 'Canon doesn't deliver enough DR'. There's a difference between 'Exmor allows better low ISO shadow pushing than Canon' and 'Canon sensors deliver poor IQ'. In each case, the former is a statement of fact that is generally accepted here, the latter is a judgement based on an individual's _personal_ needs and values. Some people just can't understand or accept that _their own_ needs and values aren't statements of fact with which everyone must agree. 

That's not 'having it both ways', that's the ability to distinguish between fact and opinion.


----------



## Eldar (Sep 22, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Some people just can't understand or accept that _their own_ needs and values aren't statements of fact with which everyone must agree.


Interesting statement. So, turning the argument against yourself, are your needs and values statements of fact, or are they merely your opinion? Do you have a problem accepting that your needs and values, and how you express them, are not shared by Everyone else? Do you represent a majority or a minority?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 22, 2014)

Eldar said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Some people just can't understand or accept that _their own_ needs and values aren't statements of fact with which everyone must agree.
> ...



My opinions are just that - opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own, obviously. I tend to value mine above those of others (after all, they're mine for a reason!), although I certainly listen to the latter. Everyone is also open to having their opinions criticized. I have no expectation that anyone else _must_ share or accept my opinions...they're opinions. I do expect people to at least acknowledge facts...I provide supporting evidence in many cases. 

I use Canon...so in that sense I'm part of the majority of dSLR buyers. In many other ways, I'm in the minority...and that's fine by me.


----------



## pierlux (Sep 22, 2014)

AmselAdans said:


> ...better than any soap opera...


...which, after the 1000th episode, becomes queasy.

I normally stay out of this kind of debates which usually ends up leaving each quarreler even more deep-rooted in his own opinion. But it somehow hurts me seeing those who I, by now, consider teachers and friends, having read literally thousands of their posts for years (I know the opposite is obviously not true - considering me a friend I mean - since I post so rarely, although having been "here" since the very beginning of Canon Rumors back in 2008), endlessly bickering over the same argument thread after thread. What I fear is that someone of the contenders could feel offended in the long run and cancel his membership. Well, as I said, I'd be really sorry about that, my dear teachers and friends (let me steal Surapon's adage for once  ).

I love this forum, nobody at present is anything near to what Mikael or Canon F1 before him were, please let's not make anybody become looking like they were. Just stop arguing unpleasantly. Please!!!

We could have tons of stuff to talk about, yet I see no threads or discussion, other than transient mention, about what I think are really amazing features of the 7D2, i.e. its auto-ISO capability which even beats that of the 1DX. Or the most sophisticated intelligent viewfinder ever. Or the 150kpixel RGB + IR metering sensor which also beats that of the 1DX. Now these are the features I'd like to read about, being discussed in this forum, not sensor tech or DR. Of course I could start a thread myself on these features instead of waiting for someone else to do it, but there's a reason I write so few posts: I'm terribly slow in writing, plus I'm so busy reading all of yours that I've got too little time left .

Now we have THIS sensor inside the 7D2, it's an amazing sensor, could it become better if we talk about it? Of course no. Could it have been better? Maybe yes, but it's no use complaining now. Will Canon sensors evolve in the future? Sure they will, we don't know when, maybe when the pixel density will necessarily increase due to pressing competition, and it will come at a cost. The 7D2 is cheap when accounting for the features it offers, I really expected a higher price point, so I'm pleasantly surprised, actually. 

We still don't know for sure if and how the 7D2's sensor is somehow different than that of the 70D. Apparently, IQ is only very very slightly, almost unnoticeably, better (at least to my eyes, but I may be biased because I'd really like things to be this way) at top ISO. We need a real head to head 7D2 vs. 70D comparison to objectively see any difference, i.e. RAW files taken at the same time with identical lighting and all the other possible variables being absolutely equal, which are not yet available.

I have a few months before deciding whether to purchase the 70D or the 7D2 and I'd like all of you guys influence my decision with your debates in a positive, constructive way, as it has always been.

Peace!


----------



## Eldar (Sep 22, 2014)

pierlux said:


> AmselAdans said:
> 
> 
> > ...better than any soap opera...
> ...


A rare (don´t see you much), but excellent speech!


----------



## Sella174 (Sep 22, 2014)

Finally Canon releases the camera we should have had years ago. Now for the (weather-sealed) EF-S *L* lenses to match ...


----------



## zim (Sep 22, 2014)

marinien said:


> Jackson_Bill said:
> 
> 
> > marinien said:
> ...




I just learned a bunch of stuff there marinien thank you

Regards


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 22, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



suuuure

and don't forget your buddy Keith today was posting all over here today in other threads about how the extra DR is a joke and is only needed by incompetent photographers who always miss the exposure and who have no post-processing skills and that the only point and use for more DR is to overcome poor photography skills of incompetent users.


----------



## East Wind Photography (Sep 22, 2014)

jrista said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



One thing we can assume is that our chances are better at taking a once in a lifetime photograph if we weren't here reading and posting on these forums.


----------



## icassell (Sep 22, 2014)

When do you suppose Canon will put the manual for the camera up on their website? Will they wait until actual release or will we be able to read it (for those of us who actually read the manual  ) while we wait? What have they done with this in the past; I can't recall?


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 23, 2014)

The information that, so far, is found on CDLC --> http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/dlc/tags/eos_7d_markii_tag/tagItemsListing.spr

I believe the URL will continue to fit as they post more articles. (As long as they tag properly.)


----------



## DominoDude (Sep 23, 2014)

Oh, and the manuals that are available are here --> http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_7D_Mark_II.aspx?type=manuals


----------



## sfunglee (Sep 23, 2014)

Seeing the 7DMii have many upgrades, as the highest specs of APS-C class DSLR of Canon family...

The new / upgraded sensor 20.2Mp from 70D to 7DMii is much cleaner... 

I'm doubt when will the new / upgrade sensor will be replace into 80D or 90D???

Those days when 7D is launched, it is pairing with 40D / 50D... The 60D inhibit the 7D sensor while 70D have most 7D system indeed better in terms of cleaner & sharper images

Should i buy 7DMii or wait for 80D to upgrade my old 7D???


----------



## East Wind Photography (Sep 23, 2014)

jrista said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



Sounds like you are ready for a high iso, weather sealed, high frame rate camera so you can go out in that weather and take photos!  I would be more inclined to take a 1700.00 camera out in it than a 6000.00 one.


----------



## icassell (Sep 23, 2014)

Geeesh. This focus guide alone is going to keep me busy for ages. Lots to learn before November!
http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_7d_mark_ii/index.html


----------



## dufflover (Sep 23, 2014)

sfunglee said:


> The new / upgraded sensor 20.2Mp from 70D to 7DMii is much cleaner...


umm wut?



> I'm doubt when will the new / upgrade sensor will be replace into 80D or 90D???


oh please god don't drag out this sensor for another 5 years (as much as I like some of the practical features like DPAF)


----------



## slclick (Sep 25, 2014)

Are the 7DMk3 threads starting anytime soon? I have a bunch of popcorn kernels just waiting.......


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 25, 2014)

slclick said:


> Are the 7DMk3 threads starting anytime soon? I have a bunch of popcorn kernels just waiting.......



No, but it's already being stated that 5DIV sales could be a non-starter. Hope you've got some artificial butter flavor!


----------



## Marauder (Sep 25, 2014)

pierlux said:


> AmselAdans said:
> 
> 
> > ...better than any soap opera...
> ...



Well put! There are tons of things to talk about regarding this camera. The new AF system, combined with ITR gives the promise of tremendous tracking potential for difficult subjects in AI Servo combined with the deep buffer and high frame rate ought to give a large number of spectacular "keepers." I'm also a fan of the OVF design.  Being able to see modes, WB etc in the viewfinder without having to take my eye off the subject looks to be a great update and very useful. And the spring loaded, programmable AF mode switch at the base of the joystick is an awesome idea. The amount of care and thought put into ergonomics is quite encouraging!


----------



## 2n10 (Sep 25, 2014)

icassell said:


> Geeesh. This focus guide alone is going to keep me busy for ages. Lots to learn before November!
> http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_7d_mark_ii/index.html



My thoughts, too. At least we have 10 weeks to study.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Sep 25, 2014)

For me, I do a lot of video for my local church (in addition to my professional stills work). What the 7DII offers me is native mp4 video. Every time I compile a DVD using Window's movie maker, I loose hours of my life trans coding from the native camera format to mp4...this camera will halve my weekly post production work...as well as giving me 10 fps and a high iso ability 1.6x crop camera with a state of the art AF system.


----------



## weixing (Sep 25, 2014)

Hi,
Take a look at the 7D2 manual and realized that the intervalometer implementation of 7D2 is not that good... you cannot set the exposure time in the intervalometer and the function cannot work in bulb mode which mean that you cannot use the intervalometer for exposure longer than 30s. May be the programmer should take a look at their TC-80N3... or may be they did look at the TC-80N3, that's why they remove it (although I think they might just overlook it)... : Hopefully (double finger cross), they'll fix this by moving the bulb timer (which is under the bulb mode) function into the intervalometer in the next firmware update.

Have a nice day.


----------



## weixing (Sep 25, 2014)

Hi,
I was browsing at YouTube and saw this interesting video on 7D2... the interesting part is not the 7D2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAJBbrGs6JY

Have a nice day.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 25, 2014)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> I was browsing at YouTube and saw this interesting video on 7D2... the interesting part is not the 7D2:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAJBbrGs6JY
> 
> Have a nice day.



Wow.


----------



## Sella174 (Sep 26, 2014)

weixing said:


> I was browsing at YouTube and saw this interesting video on 7D2... the interesting part is not the 7D2:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAJBbrGs6JY



What tickled me was when the photographer was switching the primary AF point ... he was actually missing some the action. Why still no eye-control?


----------



## chitownjeff (Sep 26, 2014)

Does the 7d mark 2 have auto lens calibration or do you still need a program like FoCal Plus for that?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 26, 2014)

chitownjeff said:


> Does the 7d mark 2 have auto lens calibration or do you still need a program like FoCal Plus for that?



You need to perform AFMA yourself, manually or via other software (e.g. FoCal).


----------



## East Wind Photography (Sep 27, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> chitownjeff said:
> 
> 
> > Does the 7d mark 2 have auto lens calibration or do you still need a program like FoCal Plus for that?
> ...



IF the 7DII is/will be supported by FoCal. So for now its a manual effort.


----------



## racebit (Sep 27, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> chitownjeff said:
> 
> 
> > Does the 7d mark 2 have auto lens calibration or do you still need a program like FoCal Plus for that?
> ...



It also seems there is still no AF support for manual lenses. The camera could/should tell us the direction to move focus so that we can act as a virtual lens motor.
Very sad that no camera does this, as the best lenses in the world are MF (Zeiss, telescopes, etc).
I was hoping that at least with second generation of DPAF we could have it, not from the PDAF but from the sensor (DPAF). It seems not.


----------



## Marauder (Sep 27, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > chitownjeff said:
> ...



That's a pity. I was hoping they'd add auto AFMA to it. It'd be such an awesome feature! One would think DPAF would allow it to be implemented without a great deal of effort. Still, I'm quite excited for this camera--it looks to be an amazing tool for wildlife!


----------



## racebit (Sep 28, 2014)

Marauder said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I am still hoping that after 7D3 is released in 5 years, Canon will begin thinking about it, to release with 7D4 in 10 years. Counting the hours, time goes fast...

EDIT: Oh. wait, in 10 years PDAF is dead, DPAF reigns supreme, no need for AFMA any more.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 28, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> IF the 7DII is/will be supported by FoCal. So for now its a manual effort.



It likely will be, eventually. I started using FoCal's manual mode on my 1D X before that was supported, I've just kept doing it that way.


----------



## monkey44 (Sep 29, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon...
> ...



I'm kinda agreeing with this one (and a couple others that have the same take) -- The whole package makes me stay with Canon all these years. It does exactly what I need consistently and if a situation should arise where this "combinations of components and actions in this brand" will not create the image I want, well, it's unlikely Nikon or Sony or any other brand will either.

We need to look at a bigger picture here -- if we successfully create 95% of the images we attempt and miss a few due to 'available tech in a Canon' ... well, we miss shots for other reasons too. It goes with the profession, and goes with any other profession as well - we strive for perfection but most often don't achieve it, but it's the journey that matters. 

Technology has limitations as it develops - and Canon has chosen to build a "composite of technology" that as a whole creates some pretty outstanding images - and it's unlikely switching to another brand of equal caliber /price range will pick up that other five percent -- it will just miss a different five percent for different reasons, but you'll still get 95% success (more or less  )


----------



## KClarke (Sep 29, 2014)

Looks like DPP version 3 is updated for the 7D Mark II

http://www.canon.de/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_5D_Mark_III.aspx?type=download&softwaredetailid=tcm:83-1203491&os=&language=


----------



## Viggo (Sep 29, 2014)

Sample from DPreview at 100 iso. It is a bit noisy though, isn't it? I'm not in the "Canon sensors suck, moe DR, moreDR!!"- crowd, but this doesn't look that good at 100 iso.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/masters.galleries.dpreview.com/3034855.jpg?X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWXD4UV3FXMIDQLQ/20140929/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20140929T184231Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=3bbbe014326c5d53e570083f0e6063b9befecec471136c1336821235c49cb0a2


----------



## raptor3x (Sep 29, 2014)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> I was browsing at YouTube and saw this interesting video on 7D2... the interesting part is not the 7D2:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAJBbrGs6JY
> 
> Have a nice day.



Oh man, that portrait at 2:02.


----------



## tomscott (Oct 6, 2014)

Kelby one got their hands on the camera with photographer Peter Reed Miller. Clearly a good Canon plug but still rated pretty highly!

http://youtu.be/dW9-8kBcx1I


----------



## unfocused (Oct 6, 2014)

As it gets closer and closer to release date, this camera seems to just get better and better. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this picked as the "Camera of the Year."


----------



## Sabaki (Oct 6, 2014)

Hey all

So I'm curious, does a maximum flash sync speed of 1/250th make much difference over 1/200?

I shoot macro with my MR-14EX at 1/200.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Oct 6, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> Hey all
> 
> So I'm curious, does a maximum flash sync speed of 1/250th make much difference over 1/200?
> 
> I shoot macro with my MR-14EX at 1/200.



Depends on how fast your subjects move...


----------



## StudentOfLight (Oct 6, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> Hey all
> 
> So I'm curious, does a maximum flash sync speed of 1/250th make much difference over 1/200?
> 
> I shoot macro with my MR-14EX at 1/200.


Total exposure = (Ambient Component) + (Flash component). 
Faster sync speed allows you to pull down your ambient exposure component down. If your goal is to shoot at wider apertures and to drag down the ambient component then you'll want as fast sync speed as possible. If you are shooting at narrower apertures (e.g. macro with plenty of depth of field) then ambient contribution is most likely low in any case so I don't see a practical benefit.


----------

