# Canon EOS-1D X Mark III rumoured specifications [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 7, 2019)

> We have received our first rumoured specifications for the upcoming Canon EOS-1D X Mark III. Please keep in mind a specification list with a [CR1] rating is coming from an unknown source.
> *Canon EOS-1D X Mark III specifications* (rumoured):
> 
> 28.1mp full-frame CMOS
> ...



Continue reading...


----------



## SecureGSM (Oct 7, 2019)

30 fps still shooting.. how?


----------



## amorse (Oct 7, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> 30 fps still shooting.. how?


Yea, that one smells funny. Electronic shutter?


----------



## mb66energy (Oct 7, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> 30 fps still shooting.. how?


With the EVF mode of the OVF or a 2nd EVF "hole" left from the OVF. This might be a good companion to the IBIS function if this ist true!
Maybe IBIS is the reason for the new CPU (maybe with accelerometer and gyro on chip?) and the 28MPix resolution makes sense for a fast camera for professionals who want to transmit their files for newspapers where 12MPix would be enough by far (after cropping ...).


----------



## andrei1989 (Oct 7, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> 30 fps still shooting.. how?


like the tiny M6 mk2 but maybe at full res


----------



## SecureGSM (Oct 7, 2019)

amorse said:


> Yea, that one smells funny. Electronic shutter?


silent electronic shutter +30 fps + 28Mpx DPAF/ DPRAW sensor in rugged body - $6,000 ?? who needs a mirrorless then


----------



## Mark3794 (Oct 7, 2019)

andrei1989 said:


> like the tiny M6 mk2 but maybe at full res


 Yes, probably a raw burst mode with a small 1.2/1.4x crop


----------



## xps (Oct 7, 2019)

"_28.1mp full-frame CMOS
Up to 30fps still shooting
Dual DIGIC 9 (This would be the first time the 1D series would introduce a new processor)
IBIS
New and larger rear LCD, the source said it looked brighter too. "_

If the AF will get enhanced (my former mkII lacked when something was directly heading toward me), it will be an "no-Brainer".

The only problem will be the decision which wing/feather position the photographed birds will be favourite - if you get 300 shots in 10 seconds...


----------



## peters (Oct 7, 2019)

My guess is that the 6k video feature (with 30fps) is true. This would mean, they can get 24mpixel jpg stills at 30fps, explaining the 30fps "burst mode" that was mentioned. I dont think they can get 30fps with RAW at that resolution. It would be an incredible jump in sensor readout speed. Remember, the 1DX I had 14 and the 1DX II had 16fps - a jump by 100% sounds unrealistic for me.
I also think that the sensor is going to have 24mpixel so they can get a full-frame 4k raw image with 1 to 1 pixel readout. Thats the same "trick" they use on the 1DX II and 5D IV. They just dont have the processing power to sample a 4k (or even 6k) image from a higher resolution sensor. Thats whay the FHD image of the 5D and 1D (which both use the full sensor in FHD) are so INCREDIBLE bad, while the 4k image is fine.

However, if they provide a decent 6k image in this camera and a better codec than the 1DX II MJPG, than I am sold anyway. And a electronic silent shutter is a must for me. Otherwise its a bad camera for wedding. The 1DX II is incredible loud, even in silent mode in live-view...


----------



## criscokkat (Oct 7, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> With the EVF mode of the OVF or a 2nd EVF "hole" left from the OVF. This might be a good companion to the IBIS function if this ist true!
> Maybe IBIS is the reason for the new CPU (maybe with accelerometer and gyro on chip?) and the 28MPix resolution makes sense for a fast camera for professionals who want to transmit their files for newspapers where 12MPix would be enough by far (after cropping ...).


They do have several different patents for a combined optical and digital viewfinder that switches modes as needed.

I'm not sure if a mechanical shutter could ever do 30fps, but an electronic one certainly could. If that happened, it would certainly be a game changer. To be honest, if the specs are true, I'm not sure how they would do 30fps in a 1dxiii without it, simply because without a movable screen using the lcd display in live view is just that much more difficult.


----------



## Stuart (Oct 7, 2019)

30 fps - isn't that video at full camera resolution.


----------



## Del Paso (Oct 7, 2019)

WOW!!!!!


----------



## RickWagoner (Oct 7, 2019)

there is no reason for Canon not to go 7d3 with 1dx3 specs besides the sensor!


----------



## amorse (Oct 7, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> silent electronic shutter +30 fps + 28Mpx DPAF/ DPRAW sensor in rugged body - $6,000 ?? who needs a mirrorless then


They did have a patent for a hybrid viewfinder a while back - maybe that isn't so far from the truth


----------



## caffetin (Oct 7, 2019)

ENDE


----------



## amorse (Oct 7, 2019)

RickWagoner said:


> there is no reason for Canon not to go 7d3 with 1dx3 specs besides the sensor!


I don't know, but I suspect money could be a reason why they wouldn't do that. The last 1Dx series was 3.5x more expensive on launch that the last 7D series at launch, and I really don't think all that cost is in the sensor. I wonder if Canon thought there wasn't enough daylight between the 7D series and the 1D for the price difference...


----------



## serhatakbal (Oct 7, 2019)

does not look attractive to competitors. I do not like...


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 7, 2019)

peters said:


> My guess is that the 6k video feature (with 30fps) is true. This would mean, they can get 24mpixel jpg stills at 30fps, explaining the 30fps "burst mode" that was mentioned. I dont think they can get 30fps with RAW at that resolution. It would be an incredible jump in sensor readout speed. Remember, the 1DX I had 14 and the 1DX II had 16fps - a jump by 100% sounds unrealistic for me.



The M6 Mark II can do a 30 fps RAW burst with servo AF at 18 MP/12-bit—a throughput almost 50% greater than that of the 1D X II! It would be very surprising if the 1D X III won't at least manage to do the same or better.



> I also think that the sensor is going to have 24mpixel so they can get a full-frame 4k raw image with 1 to 1 pixel readout. Thats the same "trick" they use on the 1DX II and 5D IV. They just dont have the processing power to sample a 4k (or even 6k) image from a higher resolution sensor.



"DCI 6K" (6144px horizontal resolution) requires at least a 25 MP sensor. 26 MP and 28 MP (with a slight crop) are both reasonable guesses right now. The 90D can do both 6.9K-to-4K and 6K-to-4K downsampling so it would again be very surprising if the 1D X III won't be able to do the same.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 7, 2019)

peters said:


> My guess is that the 6k video feature (with 30fps) is true. This would mean, they can get 24mpixel jpg stills at 30fps, explaining the 30fps "burst mode" that was mentioned. I dont think they can get 30fps with RAW at that resolution. It would be an incredible jump in sensor readout speed.


Do you think a camera can read JPEG directly from the sensor?


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 7, 2019)

xps said:


> If the AF will get enhanced (my former mkII lacked when something was directly heading toward me), it will be an "no-Brainer".



You mean even the mighty 1D X Mark II struggles with the infamous DPReview "bicycle test"?


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 7, 2019)

xps said:


> The only problem will be the decision which wing/feather position the photographed birds will be favourite - if you get 300 shots in 10 seconds...



I think the Apple's *HEIF* standard addresses this issue. The onus is there on a user to pick the favorite.


----------



## ritholtz (Oct 7, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> You mean even the mighty 1D X Mark II struggles with the infamous DPReview "bicycle test"?


All Canons struggled with these DPR AF tests. Mighty 1D X mark 2 even rated behind D5 based on AF tests even with better sensor and 4k60p. I remembered there was a big discussion when they did this test with 80 with the settings. With all points auto AF, there is a setting to choose starting AF point. Otherwise, it is set to center AF point. It doesn't pick up face and start tracking as DPR was expecting.


----------



## Architect1776 (Oct 7, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> silent electronic shutter +30 fps + 28Mpx DPAF/ DPRAW sensor in rugged body - $6,000 ?? who needs a mirrorless then



Sony fan boys chugging along at 20 fps with the new a9II.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 7, 2019)

Hopefully, Canon will improve the AF. I like my 1DX2 but the D5 has had a real advantage in maintaining focus lock for BIF. Also, matching Sony's AF tracking and eye AF performance would be super features.


----------



## richperson (Oct 7, 2019)

Put me on the wait list. 28mp is a very meaningful improvement. I assume high ISO noise will be at least equal, if not better. IBIS will be handy at times, but my subjects require fast shutter speed, so may not make a big difference to me. I will be interested to see the restrictions on 30fps. Honestly, I would likely take the slower option of 15-20fps with full function if possible.


----------



## malarcky (Oct 7, 2019)

"Canon is gearing up for a big _"2010_" I got this email, and I'm _still scratching my head._


----------



## 6degrees (Oct 7, 2019)

IBIS? So Canon RF pro body, equivalent to a7rIV, is coming.


----------



## Del Paso (Oct 7, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Sony fan boys chugging along at 20 fps with the new a9II.


NO!
For Sony trolls, 20 fps are much better than 30 fps.
Less can be more (if Sony has less...)


----------



## Architect1776 (Oct 7, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> NO!
> For Sony trolls, 20 fps are much better than 30 fps.
> Less can be more (if Sony has less...)



You are absolutely right.
When Canon came out with the 5DSR they all said high MP was not needed and that it was overkill.
So yes you are correct and they will make all kinds of excuses.
PS the Canon sensor also has more MP than the recycled Sony a9II sensor (They call this old worn out sensor "Proven") from the old a9.


----------



## Franklyok (Oct 7, 2019)

What? No 24 fps? *******!


----------



## Chaitanya (Oct 7, 2019)

30fps in live-view with Af would be good sign for future R cameras.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart said:


> 30 fps - isn't that video at full camera resolution.


but then it has to buffer eventually unlike video.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Oct 7, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Sony fan boys chugging along at 20 fps with the new a9II.


this is a rumor of the lowest level....


----------



## richperson (Oct 7, 2019)

I would hope the have FPS step backs from 30fps, and not just one. I don't want to drop from 30fps to 5. Something like 30, 20, 12, 5 would be nice. I'm assuming there is still a mechanical shutter option that is around 14-15fps.


----------



## xps (Oct 7, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> You mean even the mighty 1D X Mark II struggles with the infamous DPReview "bicycle test"?


Yes, mine had problems with objects that were directly flying/running/driving toward me. Moving in another direction or directly away from me was no problem.

The same with my 5DIV that was my exchange for de 1DXII after its damage.

So, until the 1DXIII appears, the 7R MK IV with the 200-600 from another brand is used for directly approaching birds... (by the way: I like the new BIG "AF-ON" button for the 7R IV. A pleasure to use with back-button-AF. I hope Canon will do so too)


----------



## unfocused (Oct 7, 2019)

While I would prefer 30-32 mp, 28 is a significant improvement and not a deal breaker for me. I'm skeptical of the 30 fps, unless that is a live-view number. A few extra fps would be welcome. A bit surprised by IBIS. If it is included, that means Canon has satisfied themselves that it is rugged and reliable or they would not put it into a 1 series body. 

I will be mostly watching to see what autofocus improvements they have made. In my ideal world, I could use a single point to quickly lock on a player and stay locked on that player regardless of what comes between and regardless of where that player moves in the viewfinder. I don't expect that to happen, but getting closer would be nice. 

Sounds like Canon will retain the fixed screen. Okay with me. We will see if they can improve the "silent" shutter and dust magnet sensor.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 7, 2019)

amorse said:


> I don't know, but I suspect money could be a reason why they wouldn't do that. The last 1Dx series was 3.5x more expensive on launch that the last 7D series at launch, and I really don't think all that cost is in the sensor. I wonder if Canon thought there wasn't enough daylight between the 7D series and the 1D for the price difference...


Two different kinds of buyers. There are people who want nothing but full frame. There are people who want nothing but crop or can only afford crop. The 1D line is far and away above the 7D series. Plenty of daylight between them.


----------



## Dantana (Oct 7, 2019)

Sounds awesome. It's not a camera for me (at least in the near future), but it's great they are pushing further.


----------



## neurorx (Oct 7, 2019)

With these specs and if they can significantly improve the focus and ISO, this will be a very competitive camera vs other flagships. This would make me very happy and sign me up for a pre-order! Santa can bring me B H gift cards!!!!


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 7, 2019)

neurorx said:


> With these specs and if they can significantly improve the focus and ISO, this will be a very competitive camera vs other flagships. This would make me very happy and sign me up for a pre-order! Santa can bring me B H gift cards!!!!


What ridiculous hyperbole. 

The 1DX MkII already has better iso performance than the D5 and A9/MkII, the AF is also comparable to both, what flagship is the 1DX MkII currently not competitive with? 

How, without breaking the laws of physics, do you expect to “significantly improve” either?


----------



## amorse (Oct 7, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Two different kinds of buyers. There are people who want nothing but full frame. There are people who want nothing but crop or can only afford crop. The 1D line is far and away above the 7D series. Plenty of daylight between them.


Agreed that both bodies are very different, made for different buyers, and have plenty of daylight between them right now, but I might not have been clear in what I was saying. 

I was referring to a previous comment that suggested that there was no good reason for Canon not to give the 7D III the 1DxIII's specs minus the sensor. Giving the 7D III the 1DxIII specs minus the sensor would indeed eliminate a lot of daylight and wouldn't make sense for camera lines which have such a significant pice differential. That is if Canon were to not discontinue to 7D series as previously reported, obviously.


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 7, 2019)

unfocused said:


> While I would prefer 30-32 mp, 28 is a significant improvement and not a deal breaker for me. I'm skeptical of the 30 fps, unless that is a live-view number.



Certainly it's going to be a live view number. But unlike the 1DX2, this time there will be full servo AF in live view! Given that Canon now has the tech to do 30fps × 18Mpix × 12bit RAW burst shooting with full AF, I'm certain they're going to put it in their flagship product as well.



> A bit surprised by IBIS. If it is included, that means Canon has satisfied themselves that it is rugged and reliable or they would not put it into a 1 series body.



Indeed. Definitely something you'd want to introduce on a less demanding body first.


----------



## GuyF (Oct 7, 2019)

It might manage 30fps in live view mode otherwise that mirror is gonna be thrashing oil all over the sensor!


----------



## Don Haines (Oct 7, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> 30 fps still shooting.. how?


mirrorless


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 7, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> mirrorless


I was thinking the same. Or a hybrid. Nothing says they are required to name it Rx. Wait... RX... the cure for Sony Derangement Syndrom.  Anyway, they could still call it 1Dx Mark III because that moniker is so iconic.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 7, 2019)

The AF is inferior to the A9
Sorry man That’s just misinformation 




privatebydesign said:


> What ridiculous hyperbole.
> 
> The 1DX MkII already has better iso performance than the D5 and A9/MkII, the AF is also comparable to both, what flagship is the 1DX MkII currently not competitive with?
> 
> How, without breaking the laws of physics, do you expect to “significantly improve” either?


F


----------



## richperson (Oct 7, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I was thinking the same. Or a hybrid. Nothing says they are required to name it Rx. Wait... RX... the cure for Sony Derangement Syndrom.  Anyway, they could still call it 1Dx Mark III because that moniker is so iconic.



If it had those specs with no blackout and took RF lenses, I would be totally fine with that.


----------



## LensFungus (Oct 7, 2019)

Sounds rubbish. I'll stick with my Rebel T6!


----------



## sfeinsmith (Oct 7, 2019)

That was not enough! 

Canon did not do their preparation on the EOS 1D X Mark III camera body because it has very little development with tiny new features. Canon spent a lot of their money and produced JUNK mirrorless camera and JUNK RF lenses. They are trouble-prone engineered. 

Now, where Canon promised to release EOD 5D R Mark II, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L IS USM, EF 200-600mm, new 50mm f/1.2 with improved features plus other items. We are NOT interested in R camera and RF lenses. 

I discovered Canon changed its policy to provide replacement parts for both camera bodies and lenses. So many skilled 3rd party camera repair stations were not able to fix the problem as they cannot receive the replacement parts.

If you have Canon EOS 1DS Mark I, you will be out of luck because they will turn you down because the parts were out of stock and obsoleted. 

I have Canon EOS 1D Mark II. It needs new material for the body due to worn out. The condition of this camera is excellent. Canon told me they were no longer parts available and also told me to get a new mirrorless camera. I discovered as they will provide replacement parts up to 3-5 years old. After that, you will be out of luck.

They copied Nikon's new policy on replacement parts as well as Sony too. Because they want to be a monopoly and hurt the 3rd party service vendors included me. I surprise to learn from eBay for used digital cameras to show tremendous increase prices.

We need your voice against Canon and Nikon to stop crazy policies and provide better support for old cameras that need parts.


----------



## slclick (Oct 7, 2019)

CR1 + prototype = crazy wild hunches thread. Patience, we'll get there...even still, how many here are eventual buyers, not me for one (I have 2 college bound kids next year)


----------



## slclick (Oct 7, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> That was not enough!
> 
> Canon did not do their preparation on the EOS 1D X Mark III camera body because it has very little development with tiny new features. Canon spent a lot of their money and produced JUNK mirrorless camera and JUNK RF lenses. They are trouble-prone engineered.
> 
> ...


Junk RF lenses. CanonFanBoy, you want to take this one?


----------



## masterpix (Oct 7, 2019)

I am not sure 30fps in stills will be the actual number, but 28.1MP with 20FPS would do just wondrfully. now I have a big problem, a 6000 little problems that goes to ONE 6000 problem.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 7, 2019)

Re read what I said, I said they have comparable AF, and they do. The iso performance is comparable between the two as well, the lines of DR to iso cross several times and are never a significant distance apart, even the A9 II has the same sensor so will have very comparable DR performance.



Drcampbellicu said:


> The AF is inferior to the A9
> Sorry man That’s just misinformation


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 7, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> That was not enough!
> 
> Canon did not do their preparation on the EOS 1D X Mark III camera body because it has very little development with tiny new features. Canon spent a lot of their money and produced JUNK mirrorless camera and JUNK RF lenses. They are trouble-prone engineered.
> 
> ...


Says the guy who's never tried the R or RF lenses. Sony.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 7, 2019)

slclick said:


> CR1 + prototype = crazy wild hunches thread. Patience, we'll get there...even still, how many here are eventual buyers, not me for one (I have 2 college bound kids next year)


Not me. Fixed income.


----------



## whothafunk (Oct 7, 2019)

It's a CR1 and honestly, with some common sense, such jump in specs in 1D series from previous generation is highly unlikable yet people are stoked as if it is done deal.  The wonders of how some people react to such threads never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 7, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Says the guy who's never tried the R or RF lenses. Sony.


I think his eire was directed more at the fact that they are focus by wire, which has been criticized in the past for potential reliability issues but more importantly if you do have an issue the lens becomes a paperweight as manual focus isn't possible due to the manual focus ring not being connected to the AF elements, rather the ring controls the AF motor.

I have tried the R and didn't get on with it.

Whatever the points were, there is no sense in replaying King Canute and pretending this is just going to keep going the way sales and profits dictate. DSLR's are mature products in a mature market, convincing people they need a 'new' system to take the same pictures is easier than convincing them they need a new version of what they have to do the same.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 7, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> Canon told me they were no longer parts available and also told me to get a new mirrorless camera. I discovered as they will provide replacement parts up to 3-5 years old. After that, you will be out of luck.


Canon changed a broken mainboard on my 10 years old 5D2 in August, so I could take it on my Kruger trip. What did I do wrong?


----------



## rbielefeld (Oct 7, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> What ridiculous hyperbole.
> 
> The 1DX MkII already has better iso performance than the D5 and A9/MkII, the AF is also comparable to both, what flagship is the 1DX MkII currently not competitive with?
> 
> How, without breaking the laws of physics, do you expect to “significantly improve” either?


I agree the 1DxII has very good ISO and AF performance; I have been using one almost daily since it was introduced. However, I disagree a bit on the AF of the 1DxII being directly comparable to the Sony a9's. I have now been shooting the 1DxII and Sony a9 side by side for months on birds in flight and other wildlife subjects. For me the Sony a9 AF bests the 1DxII, especially on small birds and anything flying quickly towards the camera. I used to think the Canon 1DxII had the best AF period; until I started shooting the a9 along side it. The a9's ISO performance at 24MP also is not bad. My base ISO is 800 and the IQ is pretty comparable between the cameras at that level and you get an extra 4MP.

They are both very good cameras and I enjoy shooting them both. For the first time since the 1DIII came out I will not be upgrading to Canon's new flagship. Instead, I will be waiting to see what Canon brings out in a Pro, high fps mirrorless body. I believe it will be great when it arrives.

Attached image is a ruddy turnstone landing directly at the camera, almost full frame,

taken with Sony a9 with 200-600mm at 600mm. A shot that is much harder to get with the 1DxII then with the a9. At least for me.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 7, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Canon changed a broken mainboard on my 10 years old 5D2 in August, so I could take it on my Kruger trip. What did I do wrong?


Canon has also extended the service to their last film camera to 2025.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Oct 7, 2019)

whothafunk said:


> It's a CR1 and honestly, with some common sense, such jump in specs in 1D series from previous generation is highly unlikable yet people are stoked as if it is done deal.  The wonders of how some people react to such threads never ceases to amaze me.


Yeha peopel here acting liek it is real. CR1 is a step above pure BS which is CR0. Show me a CR3 and then we can have a conversation.


----------



## peters (Oct 7, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> The M6 Mark II can do a 30 fps RAW burst with servo AF at 18 MP/12-bit—a throughput almost 50% greater than that of the 1D X II! It would be very surprising if the 1D X III won't at least manage to do the same or better.


Oh, I didnt remember that feature from the M6. I didnt thought these burst feature was actualy raw. Then you are totaly right - the 1D is likely to be just as capable as this.



> "DCI 6K" (6144px horizontal resolution) requires at least a 25 MP sensor. 26 MP and 28 MP (with a slight crop) are both reasonable guesses right now. The 90D can do both 6.9K-to-4K and 6K-to-4K downsampling so it would again be very surprising if the 1D X III won't be able to do the same.


Thats true  
I hope for the best =)


----------



## Architect1776 (Oct 7, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> That was not enough!
> 
> Canon did not do their preparation on the EOS 1D X Mark III camera body because it has very little development with tiny new features. Canon spent a lot of their money and produced JUNK mirrorless camera and JUNK RF lenses. They are trouble-prone engineered.
> 
> ...



Now how does one spell troll?


----------



## SteveC (Oct 7, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Now how does one spell troll?



I like how he said "We are NOT interested in R camera and RF lenses." I'm glad he was there to tell me what I was thinking, otherwise I would never have figured it out, because I was too busy waiting to see what the next R series camera would be.


----------



## Mikehit (Oct 7, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> That was not enough!
> 
> Canon did not do their preparation on the EOS 1D X Mark III camera body because it has very little development with tiny new features. Canon spent a lot of their money and produced JUNK mirrorless camera and JUNK RF lenses. They are trouble-prone engineered.
> 
> ...




So why exactly are you on this forum? After 24 posts of vitriol we realise you hate Canon.


----------



## Xavitxaung (Oct 7, 2019)

I'm thinking about a 36 mp sensor for the new EOS 1Dx III, with a crop factor APS-H at 28 mp to get 30 images per second, many sport photographers would like this feature. 

It could be nice to get two different viewfinders (electronic and optical), like a Nikon F5 (interchangeable) and the body built as a EOS 1v (with different boosters) and not as a block.

Digic 9... (Sony Alpha 9?)


----------



## slclick (Oct 8, 2019)

Xavitxaung said:


> I'm thinking about a 36 mp sensor for the new EOS 1Dx III, with a crop factor APS-H at 28 mp to get 30 images per second, many sport photographers would like this feature.
> 
> It could be nice to get two different viewfinders (electronic and optical), like a Nikon F5 (interchangeable) and the body built as a EOS 1v (with different boosters) and not as a block.
> 
> Digic 9... (Sony Alpha 9?)


F5, Nikon sure knew their film bodies, drool. If digital never came to pass I'd be on Nikon for certain.


----------



## LSXPhotog (Oct 8, 2019)

The Canon M6 Mark II is already shooting 30fps with autofocus using electronic shutter, a small crop, and does so in RAW - I think only at 12-bit not full 14-bit. It also does this in some new file format that requires Canon DPP until Adobe supports it. So it's very clunky.


----------



## JohnC (Oct 8, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> That was not enough!
> 
> Canon did not do their preparation on the EOS 1D X Mark III camera body because it has very little development with tiny new features. Canon spent a lot of their money and produced JUNK mirrorless camera and JUNK RF lenses. They are trouble-prone engineered.
> 
> ...



Seems to me you are connecting two issues that are in two different ball fields:

1. If you are upset that Canon isn't supplying replacement parts for bodies only 3-5 years old, that would seem to be a valid concern. Frankly a surprising one to me.

2. Your other point, regarding Canon and Nikon (I suppose they are included) bringing out "junk" for new equipment. Well, you are entitled to your opinion even if it is without basis.

Unfortunately your delivery of point #2 hurts your credibility in buying what you are selling in #1. Take it as you will, I'm entitled to my opinion as well.


----------



## bellorusso (Oct 8, 2019)

30fps is good news but also would be great if that massive new CPUs did produce more bits of colour and sensor would record wider dynamic range. I don't think that PhaseOne has more money and tech power than Canon. But somehow Canon always lags behind medium format in those numbers. Would be so cool if dynamic range revolution finally happened.


----------



## JohnC (Oct 8, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> 30fps is good news but also would be great if that massive new CPUs did produce more bits of colour and sensor would record wider dynamic range. I don't think that PhaseOne has more money and tech power than Canon. But somehow Canon always lags behind medium format in those numbers. Would be so cool if dynamic range revolution finally happened.



That is why it seems to me there is room for two top end product lines, unless they can pull off those two "modes" in one body (higher FPS, higher bit-depth). I would be on board for the latter for sure, if the former comes with it all the better. My suspicion is however, they would be better to separate them to prevent compromise in accomplishing both. I suppose that is sort of what the 5D series has been, but the build quality hasn't been up there with the 1 series I don't think.

We need a 1DF (fast) and a 1DR (high resolution and high bit depth)


----------



## HarryFilm (Oct 8, 2019)

There is NOTHING WRONG with the Canon EOS 1Dx Mk2 !!! It is an EXCELLENT camera! I've shot lots of F1, skiing and Football (Soccer!) with it. With decent prime lenses and good lighting, there is nothing you cannot get with this camera!

What IS missing from it however is SHUTTER NOISE REDUCTION and YES I have been asked to LEAVE a meeting room/conference because the parties found the noise of my shutter rather objectionable! I then told them I could shoot VIDEO at 24 fps and get my still photo frames that way!

That is the ONLY THING that is problematic for that camera which is why our parent company bought a few of the Sony A9's for the head office meetings and "Quiet Area" still photo imaging. Canon WILL have to address shutter noise in the next 1Dx Mk3 iteration OR go full Mirrorless on it! They MAY do so yet! There is NO REASON why the 1Dx3 cannot be an R-series mount mirrorless ! They've got the GREAT lenses now!

---

NOW, I do wish to give a heads-up that whatever you HAVE AVAILABLE ON YOU RIGHT NOW is "Your Camera" !!!

If it's an iWatch, a Gopro Hero, a 720p resolution child's tablet computer, a smartphone, a Canon G-series or yes that venerable old 7D2!

If that is all what you have with you, then TAKE THE SHOT ANYWAYS !!! It's a visual record and even an old half-dead $100 smartphone from 10 years ago can turn out a half-decent shot (maybe even that MILLION DOLLAR shot if the right subject matter is there!).

The below are cheap phone photos but that's all I had on me! I would have LOVED to bring along the 1dx2 BUT since this was unplanned I only had the smartphone .....SOOOOO the MORAL of the story is TAKE THE SHOT with whatever you have on you! Sometimes your photo BECOMES that world-famous million-dollar story!

.


----------



## ethanz (Oct 8, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Not me. Fixed income.



CFB, let's go rob a bank together. That will fix your income.


----------



## Profit007 (Oct 8, 2019)

*** NO EVF NEEDED for 30fps & electronic shutter. 
You see the live action through the OVF, not what's being recorded via an EVF. This way there's a 0 m/s delay between the action and what you see in the viewfinder.
Some of us are old enough to have owned a canon film camera that had no shutter blackout, just a gloriously uninterrupted view of the action.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 8, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> What ridiculous hyperbole.
> 
> The 1DX MkII already has better iso performance than the D5 and A9/MkII, the AF is also comparable to both, what flagship is the 1DX MkII currently not competitive with?
> 
> How, without breaking the laws of physics, do you expect to “significantly improve” either?


I shoot BIF. The AF lock on the 1DX2 is nervous. It obtains initial focus quickly but jumps to complex, contrasty backgrounds. The D5 is slightly slower to obtains initial focus but holds focus lock much better. I shoot a 1DX2 but have to concede AF performance to my friends who the shoot D5.


----------



## analoggrotto (Oct 8, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> It needs new material for the body due to *worn out*. The condition of this camera is *excellent*.



With evidence like this..... credibility is all yours.


----------



## Profit007 (Oct 8, 2019)

Can we get back on track..?

Options for both 25fps & 24fps would be a BIG deal to those wanting to shoot bursts of stills that will be later added to video.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Oct 8, 2019)

Well of course this won't be with mechancial shutter, physically impossible unless mirror is locked up, so live-view with pre-buffering.

Sounds good as long as AF gets a big overhaul. Needs to fix stability in bursts and against busy backgrounds, latch on to lower contrast objects better and have greater AF coverage. All points x-type at f/5.6, big central chunk at f/8. Higher resolution colour meter sensor, and greatly improved tracking. If They do that then I'll be back after skipping 1DXII and selling my 1DX for D500 and A9. Neither of which is going anywhere, but I still have my Canon 500 f/4 and 300 f/2.8 which would be nice to use natively again.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 8, 2019)

djack41 said:


> I shoot BIF. The AF lock on the 1DX2 is nervous. It obtains initial focus quickly but jumps to complex, contrasty backgrounds. The D5 is slightly slower to obtains initial focus but holds focus lock much better. I shoot a 1DX2 but have to concede AF performance to my friends who the shoot D5.



I shoot BIF with my A9, especially when I know I'll be at a long range, where the target will be a small portion of the frame. When a bird dips down where there's a background, I usually lose it with the 1dx2. With the Canon I do lots of pre-focusing and tricks like choosing a stand of marsh grass that I think is in the same focal plane as the bird. I'll sometimes have my focus point on the bottom of the viewfinder, with me manually choosing an object that is closes to what I perceive as the focus plane. 

The A9 two years ago wasn't as good in many things AF versus the 1dx2. Three major (and some minor) firmware upgrades later, and we have pretty amazing tracking. The great news is I see this new R series firmware upgrade Canon did, and it looks like they're keeping up. It's just not in the 1 series yet. With the A92 coming out with only a fairly lame upgrade, Canon has the opportunity to come to parity or exceed Sony. However, I'm not sure a 1dx3 is going to cut it, as I suspect one of the key elements to this sort of modern tracking involves persistent mirrorless/live view. It might be that we see it in the mirrorless equivalent that comes some months/years/eons after the 1dx3.


----------



## Joules (Oct 8, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> Yeha peopel here acting liek it is real. CR1 is a step above pure BS which is CR0. Show me a CR3 and then we can have a conversation.


CR1 can be a great deal above pure BS. Remember this rumor for the M6 II specs that was rated CR1. It got most specs correct and the ones that are off can be explained by different prototype designs. For example, the FPS being only 14 instead of 16 FPS.









Rumored Canon EOS M6 Mark II specifications [CR1]


New rumored specifications for the upcoming Canon EOS M6 Mark II have appeared in our inbox. It looks like the new EOS M bodies are being shown to select dealer



www.canonrumors.com





It really doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 8, 2019)

whothafunk said:


> It's a CR1 and honestly, with some common sense, such jump in specs in 1D series from previous generation is highly unlikable yet people are stoked as if it is done deal.  The wonders of how some people react to such threads never ceases to amaze me.



A few months ago I would have agreed. But now, in the context of the 90D and the M6II, these specs seem perfectly reasonable. Canon really made a huge jump in throughput.


----------



## sid.safari (Oct 8, 2019)

Sounds promising. Canon has a chance to close the gap with Sony's incremental update of the A9 II. I hope they pack the 1DX III with enough features to make the choice between switching to mirrorless a really tough one (for now at least).


----------



## SecureGSM (Oct 8, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> A few months ago I would have agreed. But now, in the context of the 90D and the M6II, these specs seem perfectly reasonable. Canon really made a huge jump in throughput.


There is a small issue there: a mirror assembly. That little physical flapping piece of mirror that have to travel up and down 30 times a second. Slim chances. Electronic shutter is a possibility. Theoretically and with limitations.


----------



## jolyonralph (Oct 8, 2019)

Not much to believe here. 

I don't expect it to be more than 24mpx in resolution. 28mpx isn't a huge difference but it does seem more like some fanboy has taken the A9II specs, increased the numbers, and just submitted it.


----------



## SecureGSM (Oct 8, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> Sounds promising. Canon has a chance to close the gap with Sony's incremental update of the A9 II. I hope they pack the 1DX III with enough features to make the choice between switching to mirrorless a really tough one (for now at least).


Nuh, that makes a very little sense commercially. Sorry. money is on the SLR to MILC transition. Hence all these amazing new Canon RF lenses are popping up like mushrooms after the good rain.
Anything that does not take RF glass is a Sunset strategy for Canon at this stage.


----------



## GoldWing (Oct 8, 2019)

Using the 1DXMKII since it's inception, I find it to be an excellent camera. Honestly, as a sports shooter I don't need more than 15fps. I would prefer to* stay at 15fps *and *up the MP's* so I can use the camera more for *fashion work too.* Then give me *more cross-points* then the center 64 I so love and *two CFast card slots.* Now let's up the AF capabilities and give me a *bit more DR*. Color rendition could also be improved even though I only shoot in RAW, I do find *a magenta / purple bias* when shooting outdoor sports over ocean/seas. I would LOVE *auto MA* of my lenses. *Built-in WI-FI *to transit my shots when I can't be wired. *Wireless control of Canon flashes*. OVF that goes to +4 vs. +3. *Auto Color Profile generator* that works with photoshop or DPP to make colors foolproof. Just plug your camera into your MAC or PC and your colors are "Perfect" each time and every time. For those of use who shoot with multiple 1DXMKII's now you understand. Just my 2 cents..... Ability to bracket exposure from Eval to Spot etc would be great in difficult sports lighting situations like back-lit and bright sun.


----------



## peters (Oct 8, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> Using the 1DXMKII since it's inception, I find it to be an excellent camera. Honestly, as a sports shooter I don't need more than 15fps. I would prefer to* stay at 15fps *and *up the MP's* so I can use the camera more for *fashion work too.* Then give me *more cross-points* then the center 64 I so love and *two CFast card slots.* Now let's up the AF capabilities and give me a *bit more DR*. Color rendition could also be improved even though I only shoot in RAW, I do find *a magenta / purple bias* when shooting outdoor sports over ocean/seas. I would LOVE *auto MA* of my lenses. *Built-in WI-FI *to transit my shots when I can't be wired. *Wireless control of Canon flashes*. OVF that goes to +4 vs. +3. *Auto Color Profile generator* that works with photoshop or DPP to make colors foolproof. Just plug your camera into your MAC or PC and your colors are "Perfect" each time and every time. For those of use who shoot with multiple 1DXMKII's now you understand. Just my 2 cents..... Ability to bracket exposure from Eval to Spot etc would be great in difficult sports lighting situations like back-lit and bright sun.


I am totaly on board with the resolution. I think it would make the 1D way more versatile.
Also people keep saying, that "real pros" dont want resoltuion, they want good low-light performance. But thats just no reason at all - the 5D IV got a much higher resolution and the low light performance is totaly similar. I use both for weddings and I cant tell which is which (only that I can crop much better on the 5D)


----------



## RayValdez360 (Oct 8, 2019)

Joules said:


> CR1 can be a great deal above pure BS. Remember this rumor for the M6 II specs that was rated CR1. It got most specs correct and the ones that are off can be explained by different prototype designs. For example, the FPS being only 14 instead of 16 FPS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some things could be good guesses or obvious though.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Oct 8, 2019)

I think the 30 FPS will almost certainly be a live view burst mode and without focus tracking.
The biggest surprise and excitement for future models for me is the inclusion on IBIS! If Canon are comfortable with putting it in a 1 Series body then it must be very capable, and as others have stated, durable!

oh how I long for a 7D3 with IBIS!


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 8, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> There is a small issue there: a mirror assembly. That little physical flapping piece of mirror that have to travel up and down 30 times a second. Slim chances. Electronic shutter is a possibility. Theoretically and with limitations.



I don't think anybody here thinks that the 30 fps figure, if true, is with the mirror flapping. That would be just silly. It's within the realms of possibility that it's doable with the mechanical shutter, but more likely with e-shutter à la M6 II. But what seems all but certain is that Canon is not going to introduce a revolutionary feature like 30fps RAW burst (with full AF and pre-buffering) and then _not_ put it in their flagship sports&action body.




Jasonmc89 said:


> I think the 30 FPS will almost certainly be a live view burst mode and *without focus tracking*.



That wouldn't make much sense seeing how the M6 II 30fps burst mode does have focus tracking.


----------



## koenkooi (Oct 8, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I don't think anybody here thinks that the 30 fps figure, if true, is with the mirror flapping. That would be just silly. It's within the realms of possibility that it's doable with the mechanical shutter, but more likely with e-shutter à la M6 II. But what seems all but certain is that Canon is not going to introduce a revolutionary feature like 30fps RAW burst (with full AF and pre-buffering) and then _not_ put it in their flagship sports&action body.
> 
> [..]
> 
> That wouldn't make much sense seeing how the M6 II 30fps burst mode does have focus tracking.



The M6II does the raw burst with a single digic 8, I would image it could do a lot more with a digic 9 or a dual digic 9 as the CR1 states.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Oct 8, 2019)

GuyF said:


> It might manage 30fps in live view mode otherwise that mirror is gonna be thrashing oil all over the sensor!
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Maybe it could double up as a vibrator..?


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 8, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> The M6II does the raw burst with a single digic 8, I would image it could do a lot more with a digic 9 or a dual digic 9 as the CR1 states.



Yes, although sensor readout is likely a bottleneck.


----------



## Bob Howland (Oct 8, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Two different kinds of buyers. There are people who want nothing but full frame. There are people who want nothing but crop or can only afford crop. The 1D line is far and away above the 7D series. Plenty of daylight between them.


And there are those of us who have both FF and APS-C bodies and use them for different purposes. 28MP FF is about 10MP in Canon APS-C and about 12.5MP on Nikon APS-C.


----------



## Bob Howland (Oct 8, 2019)

JohnC said:


> Seems to me you are connecting two issues that are in two different ball fields:
> 
> 1. If you are upset that Canon isn't supplying replacement parts for bodies only 3-5 years old, that would seem to be a valid concern. Frankly a surprising one to me.
> 
> ...


My guess is that Canon does a lifetime buy of spare parts for models that have been replaced and when those parts run out, the body becomes irreparable. I've run into the same issue with 20-year old Canon lenses, as well as lawn mowers.


----------



## scyrene (Oct 8, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> Sounds promising. Canon has a chance to close the gap with Sony's incremental update of the A9 II. I hope they pack the 1DX III with enough features to make the choice between switching to mirrorless a really tough one (for now at least).



I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've observed and read over the past few years on these forums and elsewhere, I see it like this: the 1-series is aimed at/largely the preserve of professionals who value reliability and ruggedness above most other things, and who are the last group who will transition to mirorless (if they ever do). In that regard, the 1Dx3 doesn't need to prevent people being lured to ML - it just needs to do what the 1Dx2 does, only a bit better. Besides, it seems the expectation is a mirrorless equivalent will be released at some point in the next year or two, in which case people will be able to chooe what suits them best (a bit like the 90D/M6II position now).


----------



## fentiger (Oct 8, 2019)

i find it hard to believe a camera lens would be able to refocus at 30 times a second, so maybe only work with say the new 400 2.8 and 600 f4


----------



## Kit. (Oct 8, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> My guess is that Canon does a lifetime buy of spare parts for models that have been replaced and when those parts run out, the body becomes irreparable. I've run into the same issue with 20-year old Canon lenses, as well as lawn mowers.


My guess that even if there were spare parts, for the cost of fixing any nontrivial problem with 1D Mark II you could buy two of those at KEH.


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 8, 2019)

fentiger said:


> i find it hard to believe a camera lens would be able to refocus at 30 times a second, so maybe only work with say the new 400 2.8 and 600 f4



Well, in theory the 1D X Mark II can already refocus 120 times per second, with any EF lens. Of course not all lenses can keep up with rapid changes in subject distance though. Hopefully we'll get some reports soon on how well the M6II AF fares in the 30fps burst mode.


----------



## Warrenl (Oct 8, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> What IS missing from it however is SHUTTER NOISE REDUCTION and YES I have been asked to LEAVE a meeting room/conference because the parties found the noise of my shutter rather objectionable! I then told them I could shoot VIDEO at 24 fps and get my still photo frames that way!



I agree totally on this. I want a quiet IDX3. I currently have 2 well used 1DX2's (1.5 and 1.6 million actuations) and would love them to be quite. I can hear them shooting across the room!


----------



## Daan Stam (Oct 8, 2019)

canon is dooooooomed


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 8, 2019)

Warrenl said:


> I agree totally on this. I want a quiet IDX3. I currently have 2 well used 1DX2's (1.5 and 1.6 million actuations) and would love them to be quite. I can hear them shooting across the room!



Frame grabs from 6K footage should be enough for everybody!


----------



## slclick (Oct 8, 2019)

daaningrid said:


> canon is dooooooomed


The dslr is not quite dead so therefore Canon is Domed. (Hump on top of camera)


----------



## gdanmitchell (Oct 8, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> 30 fps still shooting.. how?



Perhaps the same way that other cameras with super high speed burst do it — options to either use the mechanical shutter at slower speeds or electronic shutter at much higher speeds.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 8, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Re read what I said, I said they have comparable AF, and they do. The iso performance is comparable between the two as well, the lines of DR to iso cross several times and are never a significant distance apart, even the A9 II has the same sensor so will have very comparable DR performance.



I read what you said and think its silly
canons AF is inferior
no objective reviewer would agree with your assessment
the 1D is overdue for a refresh


----------



## unfocused (Oct 8, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> Frame grabs from 6K footage should be enough for everybody!


Not if you need a viewfinder.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 8, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> I read what you said and think its silly
> canons AF is inferior
> no objective reviewer would agree with your assessment
> the 1D is overdue for a refresh


So your positions is the A9 AF is incomparably better than the 1DX MkII? That is a farcical position. 

The A9 might be ‘better’, especially for some users, it might have more focus points and a wider spread etc etc. but it isn’t incomparably better, my point was they are comparable.

Personally I haven’t used an EVF I can pan with for hours that doesn’t make me seasick because of the viewfinder lag, small though it may be, but thats me personally. I can’t see me adopting an ‘action camera‘ with EVF for that simple reason, it doiesnt matter how much better the AF is if I am on the sideline barfing my brains out I’m not taking pictures, and the truth is with current gear I miss very few opportunities. Diminishing returns were hit a long time ago...


----------



## sid.safari (Oct 8, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> Nuh, that makes a very little sense commercially. Sorry. money is on the SLR to MILC transition. Hence all these amazing new Canon RF lenses are popping up like mushrooms after the good rain.
> Anything that does not take RF glass is a Sunset strategy for Canon at this stage.



I agree...for most types of photography. But for wildlife I think the DSLR is still king. That is of course changing slowly now that Sony has some long primes out. But in terms of ergonomics and durability I still see most people with Nikons and Canons in the wild. I am intrigued by the eye focus for animals that Sony has developed. I have seen it work well on pets, but how does it do in the wild when a Cheetah is running full pelt? How does the Sony overall function after it's been in hot and dusty conditions for 30 days straight...and than taken into the jungles? I think Canon knows there is still a bunch of photographers who will stick with DSLR which have a long track record of successful use in the wild.


----------



## richperson (Oct 8, 2019)

How would people feel if the 1DXiii was a mirrorless R body, that had no blackout and Canon had solved all issues important to sports/bird photographers? I would actually like this as it would unify my kit, but I wonder if hard core DSLR 1DXii owners would welcome the new mirrorless arrival or would some be upset?

I would think the biggest complaint by pros would be the need for an adapter to all those big white lenses until the R versions came out.


----------



## sid.safari (Oct 8, 2019)

scyrene said:


> I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've observed and read over the past few years on these forums and elsewhere, I see it like this: the 1-series is aimed at/largely the preserve of professionals who value reliability and ruggedness above most other things, and who are the last group who will transition to mirorless (if they ever do). In that regard, the 1Dx3 doesn't need to prevent people being lured to ML - it just needs to do what the 1Dx2 does, only a bit better. Besides, it seems the expectation is a mirrorless equivalent will be released at some point in the next year or two, in which case people will be able to chooe what suits them best (a bit like the 90D/M6II position now).



I agree for the most part. But I do feel if the 1DxIII isn't a substantial upgrade over the 1dxII (which I have used extensively) than most people will simply not bother updating.The 1dx II is still one of the best wildlife cameras I have ever used. So switching will only make sense if the new version has something that will tangibly make photography a better experience. The AF and IQ for me are the two most important factors in this regard and that is where I hope to see the 1dxIII make the biggest leap. IBIS is also a welcome update


----------



## sid.safari (Oct 8, 2019)

richperson said:


> How would people feel if the 1DXiii was a mirrorless R body, that had no blackout and Canon had solved all issues important to sports/bird photographers? I would actually like this as it would unify my kit, but I wonder if hard core DSLR 1DXii owners would welcome the new mirrorless arrival or would some be upset?
> 
> I would think the biggest complaint by pros would be the need for an adapter to all those big white lenses until the R versions came out.



Um...it would be awesome! I don't know if most wildlife photographers care if a camera is mirrorless or mirrorslappers. We just need the system to be durable and not let us down when we have that once in a lifetime shot. I need the camera to have a good battery life. I want the AF to be fast and responsive. If it's got some AI which keeps track of an eye that's awesome - otherwise give me a joystick so i can track it myself. And finally give me nice clean files upto 6400 iso...and i'm sold. The biggest key of course is the lens and they already have adapters for that so the body just needs to be better than the one they made 4 years ago for me to switch.

The biggest plus of mirrorless for me is that EVF and the truly silent shooting. Neither of which I imagine will be in the next update. But frankly those are luxuries as far as I'm concerned, not requirements.


----------



## sid.safari (Oct 8, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> I read what you said and think its silly
> canons AF is inferior
> no objective reviewer would agree with your assessment
> the 1D is overdue for a refresh



Please tell us what you're shooting that leads you to believe a 1dxII has inferior AF...I'd love to know (honestly).


----------



## caffetin (Oct 8, 2019)

daaningrid said:


> canon is dooooooomed


and there is one more fly horse.....


----------



## djack41 (Oct 8, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> Please tell us what you're shooting that leads you to believe a 1dxII has inferior AF...I'd love to know (honestly).


For BIF, the 1Dx2 struggles to maintain focus on fast moving subjects against a complex background. The A9 and D5 both perform better in such situations.


----------



## scyrene (Oct 8, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> I agree for the most part. But I do feel if the 1DxIII isn't a substantial upgrade over the 1dxII (which I have used extensively) than most people will simply not bother updating.The 1dx II is still one of the best wildlife cameras I have ever used. So switching will only make sense if the new version has something that will tangibly make photography a better experience. The AF and IQ for me are the two most important factors in this regard and that is where I hope to see the 1dxIII make the biggest leap. IBIS is also a welcome update



I thought it was the enthusiasts/monied amateurs that go for the latest and greatest every time, whereas professionals hold onto existing gear until it dies, or something game changing comes along? Indeed the idea often repeated that a new version of a camera must entice owners of the preceding one generally seems a bit far fetched to me. It's much more complex/haphazard than that, and I suspect more realistic that people leapfrog models more than this supposes.

AF will doubtless improve - Canon has made some big strides recently, by all accounts. IQ... well I don't see much change there. The resolution will go up a bit, but not hugely, high ISO is almost as good as it physically can be, low ISO DR might be boosted, but probably not by much (and one may have to be traded for the other, as with the Nikon D5). IBIS - who knows! It'll come sometime, but which model gets it first it anyone's guess.


----------



## Architect1776 (Oct 8, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> I read what you said and think its silly
> canons AF is inferior
> no objective reviewer would agree with your assessment
> the 1D is overdue for a refresh



Canon sensor inferior?
What DR 1/2 stop at most at lowest ISO then Sony sensor DR drops below Canon as ISO goes up.
Or perhaps inferior by Sony having clown Disney colors SOC and to get anything usable need to do a bunch of PS where canon (And Fuji) SOC is near perfect.
Or what else?


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 8, 2019)

djack41 said:


> For BIF, the 1Dx2 struggles to maintain focus on fast moving subjects against a complex background. The A9 and D5 both perform better in such situations.



It’s so weird that Canon PDAF continues to have problems with busy backgrounds. Should be obvious that the camera should not suddenly focus far away if a moment ago it was locked on to a much closer subject.


----------



## flip314 (Oct 8, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> My guess is that Canon does a lifetime buy of spare parts for models that have been replaced and when those parts run out, the body becomes irreparable. I've run into the same issue with 20-year old Canon lenses, as well as lawn mowers.



I'm hoping my lawnmower can be repaired a few times until I can buy one that supports 24p


----------



## sid.safari (Oct 8, 2019)

djack41 said:


> For BIF, the 1Dx2 struggles to maintain focus on fast moving subjects against a complex background. The A9 and D5 both perform better in such situations.



heh...Ari Hazeghi is that you? (for those that don't know Ari and Art Morris mentioned this when they made the public switch from Canon to Nikon)

I think it's important to remember that this use case is extremely rare, subjective and only occurs in about 5% of BIF shots (according to Ari anyway).

In reality if you are missing shots because the 1dxII AF is not good enough I would first look at your long lens technique and system calibration and stability. Most of the time that is where the problem lies.


----------



## Arno (Oct 8, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> [url=https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-iii-rumoured-specifications-cr1/]Continue reading...


28 MP is too much und completely unnecessary. The same i think of 30 fps. Really important factors are autofocus and dynamic range. Anyway I´m waiting for a 14 to 20 fps mirrorless model with a body in good, namely bigger size, ibis and two memory cards. Besides that I think, that a mirrorless model isn`t at all important for shooting many sorts of sports. A noiseless camera is important for solemn moments.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 8, 2019)

I am not sure why you’re talking about a sensor when I’m discussing canons autofocus

QUOTE="Architect1776, post: 797328, member: 379741"]
Canon sensor inferior?
What DR 1/2 stop at most at lowest ISO then Sony sensor DR drops below Canon as ISO goes up.
Or perhaps inferior by Sony having clown Disney colors SOC and to get anything usable need to do a bunch of PS where canon (And Fuji) SOC is near perfect.
Or what else?
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 8, 2019)

Like I said before
It’s widely known that the A9 has superior AF
I’m hoping that canon spends the money they need so that they can catch up with better bodies. They got caught napping by Sony.
Then I’ll finally have a great body to pair with Canon's superior glass 



privatebydesign said:


> So your positions is the A9 AF is incomparably better than the 1DX MkII? That is a farcical position.
> 
> The A9 might be ‘better’, especially for some users, it might have more focus points and a wider spread etc etc. but it isn’t incomparably better, my point was they are comparable.
> 
> Personally I haven’t used an EVF I can pan with for hours that doesn’t make me seasick because of the viewfinder lag, small though it may be, but thats me personally. I can’t see me adopting an ‘action camera‘ with EVF for that simple reason, it doiesnt matter how much better the AF is if I am on the sideline barfing my brains out I’m not taking pictures, and the truth is with current gear I miss very few opportunities. Diminishing returns were hit a long time ago...


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 8, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> Please tell us what you're shooting that leads you to believe a 1dxII has inferior AF...I'd love to know (honestly).



Read the objective reviews
the 1dx has been surpassed in AF and a few other areas. this isn’t controversial at all. If you want a rugged professional body then the 1dx may still be the best choice but it’s not a spec or tech powerhouse at all

it’s old


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 8, 2019)

richperson said:


> How would people feel if the 1DXiii was a mirrorless R body, that had no blackout and Canon had solved all issues important to sports/bird photographers? I would actually like this as it would unify my kit, but I wonder if hard core DSLR 1DXii owners would welcome the new mirrorless arrival or would some be upset?
> 
> I would think the biggest complaint by pros would be the need for an adapter to all those big white lenses until the R versions came out.



I would wet my pants and purchase one
but it’s unlikely 
Canon is conservative and I suspect that they have had some tech limitations that force some of this conservatism. also many of their fans will resist a mirrorless body


----------



## Kit. (Oct 8, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Not if you need a viewfinder.


Do 6k video cameras have no external viewfinder?


----------



## richperson (Oct 8, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> I would wet my pants and purchase one
> but it’s unlikely
> Canon is conservative and I suspect that they have had some tech limitations that force some of this conservatism. also many of their fans will resist a mirrorless body



They did make some controversial moves with the ergonomics on the R? I agree it is unlikely, but not impossible.


----------



## richperson (Oct 8, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> Like I said before
> It’s widely known that the A9 has superior AF
> I’m hoping that canon spends the money they need so that they can catch up with better bodies. They got caught napping by Sony.
> Then I’ll finally have a great body to pair with Canon's superior glass



You might be right in a very limited set of conditions, but until I see >50% A9s at a pro sporting event, I'm going to believe the difference in AF is not as big as you are making out. Maybe if you described a practical example it would help, because a running back or receiver in front of a bunch of rabid fans does not seem to be a problem for the 1DXII. 

In an honest attempt to understand your argument, are you suggesting setting the AF to full screen/all points and let the camera control where it wants to focus? Do pros shoot that way? I don't.


----------



## reef58 (Oct 8, 2019)

richperson said:


> You might be right in a very limited set of conditions, but until I see >50% A9s at a pro sporting event, I'm going to believe the difference in AF is not as big as you are making out. Maybe if you described a practical example it would help, because a running back or receiver in front of a bunch of rabid fans does not seem to be a problem for the 1DXII.
> 
> In an honest attempt to understand your argument, are you suggesting setting the AF to full screen/all points and let the camera control where it wants to focus? Do pros shoot that way? I don't.



You are probably having a conversation with someone who doesn't use the 1dx2. People read the 1dxii is old and doesn't work and they start to believe. I was at I think DXO a few years ago and they had a list of the best wildlife cameras. They had several Sony cameras rated as better wildlife cameras than the 1dx2, and this was before the introduction of the a9. I think the 1dx2 was in the top ten but barely. People actually believe this nonsense especially when they don't use the cameras.


----------



## slclick (Oct 8, 2019)

reef58 said:


> You are probably having a conversation with someone who doesn't use the 1dx2. People read the 1dxii is old and doesn't work and they start to believe. I was at I think DXO a few years ago and they had a list of the best wildlife cameras. They had several Sony cameras rated as better wildlife cameras than the 1dx2, and this was before the introduction of the a9. I think the 1dx2 was in the top ten but barely. People actually believe this nonsense especially when they don't use the cameras.


Like RP said, until he sees it in the hands of__________. The latest and greatest is great for forum pundits and impatient GenZ's. However real paid shooters in the field are wiser than that. No other brand has the staying power of a 1 Series body.


----------



## unfocused (Oct 8, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Do 6k video cameras have no external viewfinder?


This is a discussion of the 1Dx. It only shoots video in live view.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 8, 2019)

The number of pros who shoot with X is legacy related and not relevant to a comparison of camera x to y
Pros don’t suddenly switch their gear
I have a lot to L glass and I don’t feel like switching from canon because of it
But the 5D and 1D are old. The A9 has superior AF
It’s really simple


richperson said:


> You might be right in a very limited set of conditions, but until I see >50% A9s at a pro sporting event, I'm going to believe the difference in AF is not as big as you are making out. Maybe if you described a practical example it would help, because a running back or receiver in front of a bunch of rabid fans does not seem to be a problem for the 1DXII.
> 
> In an honest attempt to understand your argument, are you suggesting setting the AF to full screen/all points and let the camera control where it wants to focus? Do pros shoot that way? I don't.


----------



## slclick (Oct 8, 2019)

The 5D4 is old? Your Earth spins at a different speed than the rest of ours buddy.


----------



## richperson (Oct 8, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> The number of pros who shoot with X is legacy related and not relevant to a comparison of camera x to y
> Pros don’t suddenly switch their gear
> I have a lot to L glass and I don’t feel like switching from canon because of it
> But the 5D and 1D are old. The A9 has superior AF
> It’s really simple



Oh, ok. 

Anyone want to buy my 1DXii that I have been using for fast moving sports (volleyball) for years now without any significant AF issues? I have decided to move let my camera do all my focusing and thinking for me, which means I need an A9--evidently.

Oh yeah, and Doc, where can I get that Sony 200mm f/2 that I like for volleyball? I couldn't find it on B&H.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 8, 2019)

slclick said:


> The 5D4 is old? Your Earth spins at a different speed than the rest of ours buddy.



Some kind of funky reverse time dilation. He's not on earth yet he's aging faster (not slower) than those of us he left behind.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 9, 2019)

That’s not the argument 

you are a skilled photographer and can get great shots with even a camera 10 years old.

my statement is that when you compare the Af of camera x vs y there is a significant Difference. Technology isn’t everything but yes the A9 i has better AF


----------



## richperson (Oct 9, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> That’s not the argument
> 
> you are a skilled photographer and can get great shots with even a camera 10 years old.
> 
> my statement is that when you compare the Af of camera x vs y there is a significant Difference. Technology isn’t everything but yes the A9 i has better AF



How many types of AF does the A9 have? How many does the 1DXii have? Are you testing all these with actual lenses on the cameras? I shoot almost exclusively with a fixed point. Are you arguing the A9 with a 400mm f/2.8 lens is significantly faster in single point AF than a 1DXii, or are you only talking automatic tracking of birds using eye detection or whatever (which I don't care about, sorry).


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 9, 2019)

slclick said:


> The 5D4 is old? Your Earth spins at a different speed than the rest of ours buddy.



its a venerable camera but long in tooth. I can’t figure out how canon will slot it’s replacement but look forward to it.

I still shoot with my 7dii. I have fond memories of the 7d series. Love them
I love it and get great shots 
But it’s old and technologically inferior
I don’t understand the irrational and emotional arguement if anyone who would say anything different.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 9, 2019)

richperson said:


> How many types of AF does the A9 have? How many does the 1DXii have? Are you testing all these with actual lenses on the cameras? I shoot almost exclusively with a fixed point. Are you arguing the A9 with a 400mm f/2.8 lens is significantly faster in single point AF than a 1DXii, or are you only talking automatic tracking of birds using eye detection or whatever (which I don't care about, sorry).



single point Af is just one aspect if AF and I don’t know if there’s a big difference in that specific usage situation. Overall mirrorless has some AF advantages and the A9 has the best combinational of attributes in regards to AF. Speed, coverage, tracking etc
Don’t take my work for it
Rent one or just read some unbiased reviews

I eagerly await canons response
I’m hoping that their newest bodies show significant improvements because I’m already invested in their lenses and the adapters for canon lenses to other bodies don’t work well enough IMO


----------



## slclick (Oct 9, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> its a venerable camera but long in tooth. I can’t figure out how canon will slot it’s replacement but look forward to it.
> 
> I still shoot with my 7dii. I have fond memories of the 7d series. Love them
> I love it and get great shots
> ...


Perhaps peoples saying different will not be irrational and emotional yet you saying beforehand is setting the scene for something akin to a political spin ala fake news. Or we could just say BS. Plus how about your contradictions with the 7D line testimonial you just gave and the calling the latest iteration of the 5D long in tooth? Long according to whom? One person?

If you have ideas and expertise on how to shorten high end camera body R&D and tooling cycles, I bet Canon is chomping at the bit to have you on the engineering team. My point is, your desires and wants are selfish and unrealistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that on a rumors forum, in fact it's a daily occurrence. But once again just because something happens time and time again doesn't make it correct.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 9, 2019)

slclick said:


> Perhaps peoples saying different will not be irrational and emotional yet you saying beforehand is setting the scene for something akin to a political spin ala fake news. Or we could just say BS. Plus how about your contradictions with the 7D line testimonial you just gave and the calling the latest iteration of the 5D long in tooth? Long according to whom? One person?
> 
> If you have ideas and expertise on how to shorten high end camera body R&D and tooling cycles, I bet Canon is chomping at the bit to have you on the engineering team. My point is, your desires and wants are selfish and unrealistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that on a rumors forum, in fact it's a daily occurrence. But once again just because something happens time and time again doesn't make it correct.



As long as we're on it, if Canon doesn't produce an 18-600 mm f/1.0 zoom that can fit in my pocket, they're *******.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 9, 2019)

Thank you canon troll



slclick said:


> Perhaps peoples saying different will not be irrational and emotional yet you saying beforehand is setting the scene for something akin to a political spin ala fake news. Or we could just say BS. Plus how about your contradictions with the 7D line testimonial you just gave and the calling the latest iteration of the 5D long in tooth? Long according to whom? One person?
> 
> If you have ideas and expertise on how to shorten high end camera body R&D and tooling cycles, I bet Canon is chomping at the bit to have you on the engineering team. My point is, your desires and wants are selfish and unrealistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that on a rumors forum, in fact it's a daily occurrence. But once again just because something happens time and time again doesn't make it correct.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 9, 2019)

unfocused said:


> This is a discussion of the 1Dx. It only shoots video in live view.


Can't it send Live View to HDMI? My 5D2 can.

I mean, if Canon _wants_ to be able to attach an external EVF to a 1DXIII, it's not like they lack the technology to do it.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 9, 2019)

sid.safari said:


> heh...Ari Hazeghi is that you? (for those that don't know Ari and Art Morris mentioned this when they made the public switch from Canon to Nikon)
> 
> I think it's important to remember that this use case is extremely rare, subjective and only occurs in about 5% of BIF shots (according to Ari anyway).
> 
> In reality if you are missing shots because the 1dxII AF is not good enough I would first look at your long lens technique and system calibration and stability. Most of the time that is where the problem lies.


I like my 1DX2 but the AF is a step behind it's competition from Nikon. Thumb pumping the AF to regain focus is my routine. It is not rare but common when shooting birds against a contrasty background. I don't think Ari was saying that losing focus occurs in only 5% of the BIF shots. Art was particularly frustrated with the 1DX2 for BIF.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Oct 9, 2019)

djack41 said:


> I like my 1DX2 but the AF is a step behind it's competition from Nikon. Thumb pumping the AF to regain focus is my routine. It is not rare but common when shooting birds against a contrasty background. I don't think Ari was saying that losing focus occurs in only 5% of the BIF shots. Art was particularly frustrated with the 1DX2 for BIF.



My experience too. Would often miss shots that were dead easy and get shots that were tough. The easy ones p!ssed me off no end. I know a guy that takes bird tours to Iceland to shoot puffins amongst other things and as a die hard Canon guy said he rarely got many keepers. I know I struggled with the 1DX. He's since switched to D5 and now gets 80% keep[ers. All the Canon users this year still using 1DXII had very poor hit rates. Even my D500 could do better than the 1DX in certain circumstances. 1DXIII needs to fix this behaviour to be taken seriously by a lot of birders again.


----------



## Memdroid (Oct 9, 2019)

I have a feeling that the “complainers “of the 1dxII AF have not really understood the AF system. It is a very complex system, with different preset cases that is highly customisable based on your needs. Once you get a hang of this everything is much controllable and easier with a tremendous hit rate. Most reviewers and users that I have found, did not study this extensively and probably are basing their reports on the basic servo mode, which is indeed subpar but not a show stopper at all.


----------



## waldi72 (Oct 9, 2019)

I anyone have problem with 1 DX II AF when photographing birds against busy background he should switch AF mode to "Case 2" - "continue to track subject, ignoring possible obstacles" That mode is under AF settings. Tracking sensitivity should be: -1, Accel./decel. tracking should be: 1, AF pt auto switching should be: 1. That's how I have AF set up. This is not default setup and many testers does not bother set up proper "AF case" in 1 DX II and use default "case 1" setting for casual multi purpose photography. If anyone has problem with proper AF setting he/she should download "Canon EOS-1D X Mark II AF Setting Guidebook" from Canon website. It is 148 pages book which says how complex and programmable AF system of 1 DX II is.


----------



## hugebob (Oct 9, 2019)

My hopes:

- Viewfinder is covered with focusing points to near or at 100%
- Spot meeting can follow focusing point
- Flip up LCD for low vantage point shooting (Don't judge me )

If these aren't available in the other Canon models, here's my money in advance! 


Quick off topic question: is there a camera out there that can expose its entire sensor at high shutter speeds (i.e., 1/4000, 1/8000, etc.)


----------



## scyrene (Oct 9, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> My experience too. Would often miss shots that were dead easy and get shots that were tough. The easy ones p!ssed me off no end. I know a guy that takes bird tours to Iceland to shoot puffins amongst other things and as a die hard Canon guy said he rarely got many keepers. I know I struggled with the 1DX. He's since switched to D5 and now gets 80% keep[ers. All the Canon users this year still using 1DXII had very poor hit rates. Even my D500 could do better than the 1DX in certain circumstances. 1DXIII needs to fix this behaviour to be taken seriously by a lot of birders again.



I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am surprised and puzzled by some of these comments. I don't doubt the 1Dx2's AF system has been surpassed in some ways by newer rival bodies (although people saying a lot of the difference is in the minutiae of use cases etc doesn't surprise me either), but the idea that one "rarely gets keepers" even in that hardest of shooting scenarios, BIF, is surely an exaggeration. I don't recall people saying this a few years ago when the camera was new - it was about the best there was. And before then, when it was the 1Dx - people used that to great effect. I've managed to shoot swifts in flight with a lowly 5D3/5Ds, and the 1Dx(2) have better AF systems than those bodies. That newer, better systems have come along since doesn't suddenly mean these older bodies can't do the job any more; the newer ones may be easier to use, and the keeper rate may be higher, but let's not overstate things.


----------



## scyrene (Oct 9, 2019)

hugebob said:


> My hopes:
> - Viewfinder is covered with focusing points to near or at 100%
> - Flip up LCD for low vantage point shooting (Don't judge me )



I don't think the 1-series is going to give you what you want, maybe best look elsewhere for these features (I'm not sure the physical AF point spread *can* be much wider - but of course in Live View you'll have nearly 100% coverage as in other bodies).


----------



## koch1948 (Oct 9, 2019)

I didn't see any mention of a full featured touch screen on the EOS-1D X Mark III.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 9, 2019)

hugebob said:


> Quick off topic question: is there a camera out there that can expose its entire sensor at high shutter speeds (i.e., 1/4000, 1/8000, etc.)


Yes, there are, but they are very specialized ones. This one, for example (up to 1/32000).


----------



## richperson (Oct 9, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> single point Af is just one aspect if AF and I don’t know if there’s a big difference in that specific usage situation. Overall mirrorless has some AF advantages and the A9 has the best combinational of attributes in regards to AF. Speed, coverage, tracking etc
> Don’t take my work for it
> Rent one or just read some unbiased reviews
> 
> ...



I think you are missing my point. For sports photography (my area of interest) there are no issues with the AF on the 1DXii, as testified by the thousands of them you see at almost every big sporting event. Photography is more than metrics. 

I won't disagree with you that Sony has been in the lead on eye AF and the modes that let the camera do the tracking for you. I believe the recent R AF upgrade helped the EOS R a lot in that regard. My point is I never use that mode for sports and for someone to imply that the A9 is a better sports camera because it has better AF is like telling a sports car enthusiast that a Lexus is better than a Corvette because the Lexus has a better stereo system and cushier suspension.


----------



## sid.safari (Oct 9, 2019)

scyrene said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am surprised and puzzled by some of these comments. I don't doubt the 1Dx2's AF system has been surpassed in some ways by newer rival bodies (although people saying a lot of the difference is in the minutiae of use cases etc doesn't surprise me either), but the idea that one "rarely gets keepers" even in that hardest of shooting scenarios, BIF, is surely an exaggeration. I don't recall people saying this a few years ago when the camera was new - it was about the best there was. And before then, when it was the 1Dx - people used that to great effect. I've managed to shoot swifts in flight with a lowly 5D3/5Ds, and the 1Dx(2) have better AF systems than those bodies. That newer, better systems have come along since doesn't suddenly mean these older bodies can't do the job any more; the newer ones may be easier to use, and the keeper rate may be higher, but let's not overstate things.



Correct. This idea being floated around that the D5 which was released within 12 months of the 1dxII or the A9 is somehow massively better is ludicrous. The 1dx is a flagship camera. If you can't get BIF in focus using it -- the problem isn't the camera. It's the photographer. (I say this as someone who has used the 1dxII and got more than a fair share of BIF shots).

I don't doubt the A9 and the D5 (which i have also used) are excellent bodies. But to claim they are vastly superior is either disingenuous or trollish imho.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 10, 2019)

My quote is that the A9 has better Af
that remains correct
The A9 simply has a better af system 
I don’t know or care about your usage. I’m talking about technology and the camera not you

The A9 is just better with af 
Period 

QUOTE="richperson, post: 797490, member: 383784"]
I think you are missing my point. For sports photography (my area of interest) there are no issues with the AF on the 1DXii, as testified by the thousands of them you see at almost every big sporting event. Photography is more than metrics.

I won't disagree with you that Sony has been in the lead on eye AF and the modes that let the camera do the tracking for you. I believe the recent R AF upgrade helped the EOS R a lot in that regard. My point is I never use that mode for sports and for someone to imply that the A9 is a better sports camera because it has better AF is like telling a sports car enthusiast that a Lexus is better than a Corvette because the Lexus has a better stereo system and cushier suspension.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## GoldWing (Oct 10, 2019)

Memdroid said:


> I have a feeling that the “complainers “of the 1dxII AF have not really understood the AF system. It is a very complex system, with different preset cases that is highly customisable based on your needs. Once you get a hang of this everything is much controllable and easier with a tremendous hit rate. Most reviewers and users that I have found, did not study this extensively and probably are basing their reports on the basic servo mode, which is indeed subpar but not a show stopper at all.



The 1DXII platform is *outstanding *for focus. Guess I'm a Case 4 junkie  I do think we need more cross-points and better full frontal. I have athletes coming straight at me and then over me I have to shoot. Not many other cameras can accomplish this with a 40 to 50 mph object and the 1DXMKII does a GREAT job in every respect except when I have athletes coming straight at me. Most of us who shoot sports professionally are tied to our big whites. I can say from experience that the 2.8/300mm IS USMM II and the same 400mm as well at the 800 and 200-400 with 1.4TC all get stupid at certain focal points and distances as they are reaching their limits. AI Servo is the best thing that ever happened for me with the 1DX and 1DXII. The 2.8 300MM II on the IDXMKII IMHO is the fastest combo that Canon offers. Even with this combo, with IS on or off and shooting in bright sun at any Case 1-6 the 1DX and 1DXII cameras have particular issues even when using just the 64 center cross-pionts with objects coming straight at you.

I think 2 DIGIC 9 processors is an indication that the MKIII is going to be a beast! I would, however, like to state that I don't need more than 15fps shooting RAW. What I need is more DR. Greater MP's would be so valuable to me and allow me to use the IDXIII for portraits and fashion work too and my sports shots would benefit too. 85% of what I shoot is sports but when I need the extra MP's it would be nice if the new MKIII could rise to the occasion. Looking at new buffers, CFast Card speeds, I think 48MP's is out of the question because of Mirror Box issues. However, if Canon wanted to I think 32+ MPs is a reality. I'd rather concentrate on stills and know that capping at 30MP's has some video advantages but I'm a photographer... not a videographer. So I hope Canon will push the limits for this old dog... as it will probably be the last PRO OVF Based body this old sports photog will see,.... So let me go out with a tool that I can take in the box with me   A lot of us in heaven!  Chuck Westfall, I'll be bringing a MKIII with me! Best to all!!!!


----------



## Cyborx (Oct 10, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> 30 fps still shooting.. how?





amorse said:


> Yea, that one smells funny. Electronic shutter?


That's why it's called RUMORS!


----------



## Cyborx (Oct 10, 2019)

YEAH! Let's continue building antique mirror camera's .. that will win the battle for Canon. 
It's like buying a brand new SUV Diesel in 2025. No one will buy it, selling it will be impossible because electric is the norm.
Mirrorless camera's (Sony ie) are so much better, faster, silent, accurate, eye-focus, extreme fps, what not? 

But Canon will keep pro's waiting for a mirrorless camera until the last Canon user has made the switch to Sony too, I guess that is good strategy.
Hope they bought some Sony shares on the stock market. Because Canon is way way behind. 

Nobody wants another AF-inaccurate Canon guys, except some vintage fans on this forum, or Canon marketeers posting here...


----------



## Sharlin (Oct 10, 2019)

It's worrying how often I find myself using the  reaction to mean "laughing AT you" instead of "laughing WITH you".


----------



## Joules (Oct 10, 2019)

Cyborx said:


> But Canon will keep pro's waiting for a mirrorless camera until the last Canon user has made the switch to Sony too, I guess that is good strategy.


It is expected that we'll see a high resolution EOS R camera in 2020 and a 1D X equivalent EOS R in 2020 or 2021. Seeing that Canon seems to have managed to make major improvements in AF software (new EOS R firmware) and sensor read out speed (M6 II) at the same time that Sony is slowing down their spec war game (A9 II, A6600), I would be a bit more optimistic in your place.

Canon are simply large enough to afford serving the DSLR and mirrorless market simultaneously, where Sony and Nikon are more focused on mirrorless now.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 10, 2019)

Cyborx said:


> YEAH! Let's continue building antique mirror camera's .. that will win the battle for Canon.
> It's like buying a brand new SUV Diesel in 2025.


No, it's like buying a brand new diesel tractor unit in 2020.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Oct 10, 2019)

It makes a lot of sense for Canon to develop the 1DxIII alongside the Rf variant. Cross feeding the tech and needs, spanning the dev across two cameras. It bodes well for the Rf mount in general but it's a snub to the 5D5 hopes. The 5D3 and 4 were co-developed with the 1 Series cameras. I dare say that the 5D5 will be co-developed with the Eos RII which will probably improve the R series substantially, but devalue the 5D5 somewhat. Canon have never really understood the market needs for a 5 Series. It took Jeff Ascough's inspired input to get the 5DIII spec from the weird spec of the 5DII. Canon likewise didn't understand what the market wanted with the Eos R....not even close. A great little camera, but shameful compared to a 5D4. Baring in mind that there are more 5D's in the hands of pros around the world than all the other camera brands and models combined.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 10, 2019)

Joules said:


> I would be a bit more optimistic in your place.



He's rooting for Canon to fail, so he should actually be a bit more _pessimistic_.


----------



## richperson (Oct 10, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> My quote is that the A9 has better Af
> that remains correct
> The A9 simply has a better af system
> I don’t know or care about your usage. I’m talking about technology and the camera not you
> ...



This is the difference between an MD and a PhD. PhD's look at all the facts and make accurate conclusions. MDs just know they are right . . . because . . . reasons. I know that was a bit mean, but restating the same thing over and over without adding any evidence or detail . . .


----------



## SteveC (Oct 10, 2019)

richperson said:


> This is the difference between an MD and a PhD. PhD's look at all the facts and make accurate conclusions. MDs just know they are right . . . because . . . reasons. I know that was a bit mean, but restating the same thing over and over without adding any evidence or detail . . .



Yes, precisely that.

I tend to assume if someone can't explain his assertion he doesn't actually _know _it to be true in any meaningful sense of the word "know."

(And secondarily, if they _refuse_ to do so but continue talking...they probably _can't_.)


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Oct 10, 2019)

richperson said:


> This is the difference between an MD and a PhD. PhD's look at all the facts and make accurate conclusions. MDs just know they are right . . . because . . . reasons. I know that was a bit mean, but restating the same thing over and over without adding any evidence or detail . . .



My statement is concise and accurate
The 1dx2 is no longer class leading in terms of autofocus. The A9 took that mantle. 
most reviewers have come to this conclusion.

it’s not worth repeating anymore
The new 1D will be our soon and I hope that canon pours some innovations into it
cameras are about technology now. Things have to move forward


----------



## bestpractices (Oct 11, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> 30 fps still shooting.. how?


Probably in live view only. The dual axis motor drive for the mirror can be engineered for speeds well into 20+ FPS, but 30 may be pushing it.


----------



## bestpractices (Oct 11, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> My statement is concise and accurate
> The 1dx2 is no longer class leading in terms of autofocus. The A9 took that mantle.
> most reviewers have come to this conclusion.
> 
> ...



The 1DX series is a showcase for what can be done mechanically. Canon engineers have said recently there is still much room to innovate.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 11, 2019)

bestpractices said:


> Probably in live view only. The dual axis motor drive for the mirror can be engineered for speeds well into 20+ FPS, but 30 may be pushing it.


A pellicle mirror and a rotary disc shutter


----------



## djack41 (Oct 12, 2019)

Memdroid said:


> I have a feeling that the “complainers “of the 1dxII AF have not really understood the AF system. It is a very complex system, with different preset cases that is highly customisable based on your needs. Once you get a hang of this everything is much controllable and easier with a tremendous hit rate. Most reviewers and users that I have found, did not study this extensively and probably are basing their reports on the basic servo mode, which is indeed subpar but not a show stopper at all.


Sorry but the 1DX2 AF problem exists regardless of settings and technique. Canon needs to address it in the 1DX3.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 12, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Sorry but the 1DX2 AF problem exists regardless of settings and technique. Canon needs to address it in the 1DX3.


So now it has a problem? Has this been documented? What *specific* situations can you not get your 1DX MkII to get you the shots you need?


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 12, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> It makes a lot of sense for Canon to develop the 1DxIII alongside the Rf variant. Cross feeding the tech and needs, spanning the dev across two cameras. It bodes well for the Rf mount in general but it's a snub to the 5D5 hopes. The 5D3 and 4 were co-developed with the 1 Series cameras. I dare say that the 5D5 will be co-developed with the Eos RII which will probably improve the R series substantially, but devalue the 5D5 somewhat. Canon have never really understood the market needs for a 5 Series. It took Jeff Ascough's inspired input to get the 5DIII spec from the weird spec of the 5DII. Canon likewise didn't understand what the market wanted with the Eos R....not even close. A great little camera, but shameful compared to a 5D4. Baring in mind that there are more 5D's in the hands of pros around the world than all the other camera brands and models combined.


Canon never understood? The 5d3 is possibly the greatest selling FF camera in history. I am pretty sure understanding was required to be produce something that popular. And I would also say they knew exactly what the market wanted with the eos r. But if they gave it to them they would compete too directly with the 5d4. The true mirrorless 5d4 equivalent will appear when canon chooses to discontinue the dslr 5d camera. I am guessing a 5d5 will never exist but will be replaced with a quick upgrade to the eos r.


----------



## unfocused (Oct 12, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> So now it has a problem? Has this been documented? What *specific* situations can you not get your 1DX MkII to get you the shots you need?


I find the 1Dx II has problems in a number of sports situations. Nailing the face of a volleyball player when shooting through the net. Staying focused on a soccer player when another player enters the frame. Tracking a basketball player going in for a layup when there are defenders in the frame. Like many sports photographers I limit myself to single point or expanded single point in most sports situations. I don’t know if Nikon or Sony are better as I have never used them and never will, but there is plenty of room for improvement by Canon. What is so wrong with just acknowledging that Canon can improve on its product?


----------



## AlanF (Oct 13, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> My experience too. Would often miss shots that were dead easy and get shots that were tough. The easy ones p!ssed me off no end. I know a guy that takes bird tours to Iceland to shoot puffins amongst other things and as a die hard Canon guy said he rarely got many keepers. I know I struggled with the 1DX. He's since switched to D5 and now gets 80% keep[ers. All the Canon users this year still using 1DXII had very poor hit rates. Even my D500 could do better than the 1DX in certain circumstances. 1DXIII needs to fix this behaviour to be taken seriously by a lot of birders again.


You _know_ a guy who only rarely gets keepers shooting puffins with Canon. Well, I _am_ a guy who goes out shooting them with a Canon 5DIV and believe me I get at least 80% keepers - see https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/puffins-guillemots-and-razorbills.37217/


----------



## richperson (Oct 13, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I find the 1Dx II has problems in a number of sports situations. Nailing the face of a volleyball player when shooting through the net. Staying focused on a soccer player when another player enters the frame. Tracking a basketball player going in for a layup when there are defenders in the frame. Like many sports photographers I limit myself to single point or expanded single point in most sports situations. I don’t know if Nikon or Sony are better as I have never used them and never will, but there is plenty of room for improvement by Canon. What is so wrong with just acknowledging that Canon can improve on its product?



Likely depends on the conditions (net and background). For this game I didn't get one net focus using single point. I have shot a lot of tournaments, and at times hit the net, but it's less than 5% of the time. Not sure I would call that a problem.





From a tournament last year. Maybe the combination of the 1DXii with the 200mm f/2 helps.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 14, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> So now it has a problem? Has this been documented? What *specific* situations can you not get your 1DX MkII to get you the shots you need?


When the keeper rate for BIF is significantly lower than a competitors' camera, it as a problem.


----------



## unfocused (Oct 14, 2019)

richperson said:


> Likely depends on the conditions (net and background). For this game I didn't get one net focus using single point. I have shot a lot of tournaments, and at times hit the net, but it's less than 5% of the time. Not sure I would call that a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent shots. And, they prove my point. Single-point or expanded single-point for sports shooting with Canon. I hope that someday, Canon's autofocus is good enough to allow it to track the subject. I'd also like to be able to afford a 200 f2.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 14, 2019)

djack41 said:


> When the keeper rate for BIF is significantly lower than a competitors' camera, it as a problem.


Apart from the fact that is just more hyperbole. 

1st, by problem I meant actual issue like in the 1D MkIII. 2nd, even the very best avian raptor in flight specialists say there is no more than a 5% difference in keeper rate between the best AF currently available for that speciality and the 1DX MkII, and even that difference is predicated on a specific shooting style with both systems having different advantages.

I would have said (indeed I have been) a 5% difference makes the various systems comparable, not one 'a problem'. Now I can understand the very best of the best deciding that a 5% difference for their particular specialty is a significant enough benefit for them to change system. However I have no time or inclination for the vast majority of sheep who bleat endlessly when they don't have 1/10 the skill of those at the very top hiding behind idiot comments like 'the AF has a problem' because a rarified few have found the limits of the various AF algorithms, especially when there are instances of high profile high speed nature shooters who have gone the other way.

So now we have proven the A9/II, 1DX MkII and D5 have comparable iso performance LINK, and that the best of the best who are also genuinely analytical about their AF rate the differences in keepers at around 5% for any of the top three I'd say the AF was also comparable.

To be sure I can understand why any individual might find one of the top three advantageous for their specific subjects and personal use, however I find the suggestion that any one of the three has 'a problem' or lags seriously behind any of the others as proof of only one issue and that issue is 6" behind the viewfinder.

I am no Canon apologist I am a photographer, give me a 1DX MKII, a D5 or an A9 and I'll take the same images, if I don't get the image the problem is me and you won't find me blaming any of the gear.


----------



## stevelee (Oct 14, 2019)

flip314 said:


> I'm hoping my lawnmower can be repaired a few times until I can buy one that supports 24p


I have given up and hired a lawn guy. Before I left on my travels, he killed everything. I think they just had some rain at home, so maybe he is ready to reseed.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Oct 14, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> Canon never understood? The 5d3 is possibly the greatest selling FF camera in history. I am pretty sure understanding was required to be produce something that popular. And I would also say they knew exactly what the market wanted with the eos r. But if they gave it to them they would compete too directly with the 5d4. The true mirrorless 5d4 equivalent will appear when canon chooses to discontinue the dslr 5d camera. I am guessing a 5d5 will never exist but will be replaced with a quick upgrade to the eos r.


I don't think you understood my post. Canon only understood the 5D3 because of Jeff's input. The 5D2 was a very poor camera in terms of functionality until Jeff gave Canon a list of things needed to take it to a more professional level. Jeff openly admitted that he never though Canon would put all of his suggestions in the 5D3...but Canon did. It's a great camera and I've been running a pair of 5D3's for a long time now. Canon haven't understood the Eos R because Canon internally developed it and quite frankly...that shows. I just hope Canon is wise and gets some smart Photo journalistic input for the Eos RII and 5D5.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 15, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Apart from the fact that is just more hyperbole.
> 
> 1st, by problem I meant actual issue like in the 1D MkIII. 2nd, even the very best avian raptor in flight specialists say there is no more than a 5% difference in keeper rate between the best AF currently available for that speciality and the 1DX MkII, and even that difference is predicated on a specific shooting style with both systems having different advantages.
> 
> ...


Blaa, blab, blaa. Save the stale "gear doesn't matter" argument. It is an unfortunate reality that the AF 1DX2 falls short of the D5 for BIF. Hopefully, Canon will address the problem with the 1DX3.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 15, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Blaa, blab, blaa. Save the stale "gear doesn't matter" argument. It is an unfortunate reality that the AF 1DX2 falls short of the D5 for BIF. Hopefully, Canon will address the problem with the 1DX3.


I don't think anyone is questioning that the D5 or even the a92 is slightly ahead of the 1dx2. The argument is over the classification of that difference as the 1dx2 having a 'problem with its autofocus.


----------



## richperson (Oct 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Excellent shots. And, they prove my point. Single-point or expanded single-point for sports shooting with Canon. I hope that someday, Canon's autofocus is good enough to allow it to track the subject. I'd also like to be able to afford a 200 f2.



Help me understand what you are wanting. If you have three players behind the net, you want to start with one and have the AF follow that person's eyes, no matter what? Or do you want the AF to understand which one you want and do it all internally? 

I have mixed feelings about either. Seems like it takes away all the challenges of sports photography. I think I understand what you are wanting, but I will feel much less accomplished if I used it.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 16, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> I don't think anyone is questioning that the D5 or even the a92 is slightly ahead of the 1dx2. The argument is over the classification of that difference as the 1dx2 having a 'problem with its autofocus.


First, my post addresses the AF of the 1DX2 for BIF. For that application, the 1DX2 AF struggles to hold focus in certain circumstances. The AF of the Nikon is measurably more stable. The schizophrenic behavior of the Canon AF is a problem which I hope will be improved in the 1DX3. It is a design issue which is not resolved with camera settings or shooter technique. Here is a link to a thoughtful comparison of the D5 and 1DX2 by one of the most knowledgeable BIF photographers. He succinctly describes the problem of the 1DX2 AF. Worth the read: http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/nikon-d5-review/


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 16, 2019)

djack41 said:


> First, my post addresses the AF of the 1DX2 for BIF. For that application, the 1DX2 AF struggles to hold focus in certain circumstances. The AF of the Nikon is measurably more stable. The schizophrenic behavior of the Canon AF is a problem which I hope will be improved in the 1DX3. It is a design issue which is not resolved with camera settings or shooter technique. Here is a link to a thoughtful comparison of the D5 and 1DX2 by one of the most knowledgeable BIF photographers. He succinctly describes the problem of the 1DX2 AF. Worth the read: http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/nikon-d5-review/


Well. I run a 7d2 which has the same basic focusing system as the original 1dx but with less processing power. And yes. There are situations where it struggles. Very contrasty backgrounds(especially situations where a bird is close to a choppy ocean). But it can be overcome most of the time if you know what you are doing. Not always however. But I wouldn't qualify that as a 'problem' I guarantee the d5 does not get a 100% hit rate either. Does that mean it has a 'problem'? Fact is the 1dx2 and even my lowly pathetic 7d2 have incredible AF systems that allow us as photographers to get photos that those is the past could only dream of. It may not b perfect but is far from 'problematic'. And interestingly enough I have found that if I do nail the focus in those situations where the AF has its difficulties I will tend too ditch the shots anyway(for BIF that is). Reason being that even if they are in focus, the background that is making focusing harder also tends to make the images messy and unpleasant to look at. Here is an example. Nailed focus on this Osprey as it came in to land in the very situations that canons can struggle with. Great position. Great subject. I will never use this shot as it is just messy.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 16, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> Well. I run a 7d2 which has the same basic focusing system as the original 1dx but with less processing power. And yes. There are situations where it struggles. Very contrasty backgrounds(especially situations where a bird is close to a choppy ocean). But it can be overcome most of the time if you know what you are doing. Not always however. But I wouldn't qualify that as a 'problem' I guarantee the d5 does not get a 100% hit rate either. Does that mean it has a 'problem'? Fact is the 1dx2 and even my lowly pathetic 7d2 have incredible AF systems that allow us as photographers to get photos that those is the past could only dream of. It may not b perfect but is far from 'problematic'. And interestingly enough I have found that if I do nail the focus in those situations where the AF has its difficulties I will tend too ditch the shots anyway(for BIF that is). Reason being that even if they are in focus, the background that is making focusing harder also tends to make the images messy and unpleasant to look at. Here is an example. Nailed focus on this Osprey as it came in to land in the very situations that canons can struggle with. Great position. Great subject. I will never use this shot as it is just messy.
> View attachment 187121


A nice image but what is your point? No one is claiming the 1DX2 never achieves subject focus but Canon's AF produces a much lower keeper rate than the Nikon. It is a problem that hopefully Canon will address in the 1DX3.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 16, 2019)

djack41 said:


> A nice image but what is your point? No one is claiming the 1DX2 never achieves subject focus but Canon's AF produces a much lower keeper rate than the Nikon. It is a problem that hopefully Canon will address in the 1DX3.


We really need a roll your eyes emoji for those that refuse to read posts.


----------



## TAF (Oct 16, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> They do have several different patents for a combined optical and digital viewfinder that switches modes as needed.
> 
> I'm not sure if a mechanical shutter could ever do 30fps, but an electronic one certainly could. If that happened, it would certainly be a game changer. To be honest, if the specs are true, I'm not sure how they would do 30fps in a 1dxiii without it, simply because without a movable screen using the lcd display in live view is just that much more difficult.




Pellicle mirror, anyone?


----------



## AlanF (Oct 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Apart from the fact that is just more hyperbole.
> 
> 1st, by problem I meant actual issue like in the 1D MkIII. 2nd, even the very best avian raptor in flight specialists say there is no more than a 5% difference in keeper rate between the best AF currently available for that speciality and the 1DX MkII, and even that difference is predicated on a specific shooting style with both systems having different advantages.
> 
> ...


This review of the D5 and comparison with the 1DXII has just been posted by one of the best BIF photographers out there. You might be interested in his views. http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/nikon-d5-review/


----------



## criscokkat (Oct 16, 2019)

TAF said:


> Pellicle mirror, anyone?


I don't think that will work because of image quality. You are still losing some amount of light with that setup.


----------



## AlanF (Oct 16, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> Well. I run a 7d2 which has the same basic focusing system as the original 1dx but with less processing power. And yes. There are situations where it struggles. Very contrasty backgrounds(especially situations where a bird is close to a choppy ocean). But it can be overcome most of the time if you know what you are doing. Not always however. But I wouldn't qualify that as a 'problem' I guarantee the d5 does not get a 100% hit rate either. Does that mean it has a 'problem'? Fact is the 1dx2 and even my lowly pathetic 7d2 have incredible AF systems that allow us as photographers to get photos that those is the past could only dream of. It may not b perfect but is far from 'problematic'. And interestingly enough I have found that if I do nail the focus in those situations where the AF has its difficulties I will tend too ditch the shots anyway(for BIF that is). Reason being that even if they are in focus, the background that is making focusing harder also tends to make the images messy and unpleasant to look at. Here is an example. Nailed focus on this Osprey as it came in to land in the very situations that canons can struggle with. Great position. Great subject. I will never use this shot as it is just messy.
> View attachment 187121


An hour with PS and it will be a great shot!


----------



## AccipiterQ (Oct 17, 2019)

Those specs almost sound like a joke....Unless this is really the FINAL (for real this time) DSLR they make before going to all mirrorless. Which would make sense, you want something that could still drive sales of new EF mount gear.


----------



## unfocused (Oct 17, 2019)

AccipiterQ said:


> Those specs almost sound like a joke....Unless this is really the FINAL (for real this time) DSLR they make before going to all mirrorless. Which would make sense, you want something that could still drive sales of new EF mount gear.


I don't understand your post. In what way do these *CR1* specs sound like a joke?


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 18, 2019)

AlanF said:


> An hour with PS and it will be a great shot!



Yeah. But for me there is a point where it becomes something other than the image I captured And if it takes an hour in PS to get the result then it isn't what I captured(trying not to sound like a snobby purist while saying that)


----------



## AlanF (Oct 18, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> Yeah. But for me there is a point where it becomes something other than the image I captured And if it takes an hour in PS to get the result then it isn't what I captured(trying not to sound like a snobby purist while saying that)


It was meant as a joke and also a sideswipe at a certain famous bird site where the backgrounds in images are manipulated in the pursuit of art.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Oct 18, 2019)

AlanF said:


> It was meant as a joke and also a sideswipe at a certain famous bird site where the backgrounds in images are manipulated in the pursuit of art.


Fair enough. Way over my head. I am just not on it today. Bit slow


----------



## AccipiterQ (Oct 19, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I don't understand your post. In what way do these *CR1* specs sound like a joke?



I don't mean it in a negative way, it's almost verbatim what I've heard people here asking for, for years.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 19, 2019)

djack41 said:


> I shoot BIF. The AF lock on the 1DX2 is nervous. It obtains initial focus quickly but jumps to complex, contrasty backgrounds. The D5 is slightly slower to obtains initial focus but holds focus lock much better. I shoot a 1DX2 but have to concede AF performance to my friends who the shoot D5.


Even with AF point auto switching set to 0? If you aren't making custom 'Case Modes' then you are not getting the best out of it. Personally since making a 'My Menu' page with all the AF variables I have found the AF to be vastly more responsive. However I do believe that people that have one single speciality do have the ability to out learn the AF algorithms.


----------



## djack41 (Oct 20, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Even with AF point auto switching set to 0? If you aren't making custom 'Case Modes' then you are not getting the best out of it. Personally since making a 'My Menu' page with all the AF variables I have found the AF to be vastly more responsive. However I do believe that people that have one single speciality do have the ability to out learn the AF algorithms.


I use custom use modes but settings do not resolve the problem with Canon's nervous AF for BIF. The camera's predictive focusing loses focus lock too easily in challenging situations.
.


----------



## Jim Corbett (Oct 20, 2019)

Hopefully, it won't be as noisy as castanets, and with an oilless sensor. 
Not sure if they can ever beat Nikon's AF. Good thing is my animals of interest are not as hard to focus as BIF.
And, "almost" forgot - remove the low pass filter already!!! From 5D5 as well!!!


----------



## Kit. (Oct 20, 2019)

Jim Corbett said:


> And, "almost" forgot - remove the low pass filter already!!! From 5D5 as well!!!


I don't think it's a good idea for a sports/weddings camera.


----------



## Michael Clark (Oct 24, 2019)

Kit. said:


> My guess that even if there were spare parts, for the cost of fixing any nontrivial problem with 1D Mark II you could buy two of those at KEH.



Not everyone lives in the U.S. or in a locale that has a resource as well stocked and ethical as KEH.


----------



## Michael Clark (Oct 24, 2019)

richperson said:


> How would people feel if the 1DXiii was a mirrorless R body, that had no blackout and Canon had solved all issues important to sports/bird photographers? I would actually like this as it would unify my kit, but I wonder if hard core DSLR 1DXii owners would welcome the new mirrorless arrival or would some be upset?
> 
> I would think the biggest complaint by pros would be the need for an adapter to all those big white lenses until the R versions came out.



The kind of pros we're talking about here use 1.4X and 2X extenders all of the time. "Adapter" is only a dirty word when it affects the usability/speed of the camera, such as when adapting lenses across brands.


----------



## Mikehit (Oct 24, 2019)

djack41 said:


> First, my post addresses the AF of the 1DX2 for BIF. For that application, the 1DX2 AF struggles to hold focus in certain circumstances. The AF of the Nikon is measurably more stable. The schizophrenic behavior of the Canon AF is a problem which I hope will be improved in the 1DX3. It is a design issue which is not resolved with camera settings or shooter technique. Here is a link to a thoughtful comparison of the D5 and 1DX2 by one of the most knowledgeable BIF photographers. He succinctly describes the problem of the 1DX2 AF. Worth the read: http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/nikon-d5-review/



And he says up front



> Cross comparing results for such subject as BIF is very difficult since the skill and the experience of the photographer is the most important factor in the output.



No-one doubts the Nikon is better, but everything Arash says refers to extreme situations and he has been quite open about that, and specific to BIF ( he even describes the differences in how they work and how that impacts BIF). And he has repeatedly says that for a vast majority of shooters (even a vast majority of BIF), the difference in the systems is not the important factor.
Yes, the Nikon is superior, but that is massive difference to saying Canon has 'a problem'. I can almost guarantee that if you managed to use both systems side by side to you would not notice any difference in keeper rate.

But hye, you continue on your path of confirmation bias....


----------



## djack41 (Nov 3, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> And he says up front
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Confirmation bias??? lol. I own and shoot a 1DX2 with the EF 600mm F4 lll. I like my equipment but I am not brand blind. I have used both the D5 and the 1Dx2. Side by side. I shoot with buddies who own the D5. Today, we shot waterfowl on a nearby refuge. Fast flying birds against busy backgrounds. The AF of the D5 holds focus and produces far more keepers. Don't take my word for it, or Ari. Get off the couch and give both a try. BTW It is interesting and encouraging that Canon has recently stated the 1DX3 will feature increased density of AF points (like the D5) and improved AF tracking stability. Hopefully, Canon will fix the nervous AF problem for us BIF shooters.


----------



## Mikehit (Nov 4, 2019)

I am not doubting that the D5 is better for bird in flight. Not at all - please show me where I have said otherwise.
If you bothered to read what I wrote, I was questioning your view that the 1Dx2 had 'a problem'. Fast flying BIF is a very specific issue where the differences between the cameras is discovered by a very small proportion of photographers in a very specific and high-stress (camera-wise!) situation where even Ari and Artie talk about increased keeper rate rather than doing something the Canon is unable to do. Yes, there is always room for improvement but the camera as it is has not stopped a gazillion high quality images from all branches of action photography and I feel you have misrepresented Ari's article to justify your undeserved comments. I am sure even Nikon can improve their AF - does that mean it has 'a problem'?


----------



## tron (Dec 10, 2019)

Ari is a fantastic bird photographer.

His reviews





__





Nikon D5 Review – Ari Hazeghi Photography






arihazeghiphotography.com





vs



Canon 1D X Mark II field review – Ari Hazeghi Photography



however prove just that and the fact that both Nikon and Canon cameras are fantastic too.

And actually Canon's review contained more interesting (and possibly more difficult to take) BIF pictures.


----------



## stevelee (Dec 16, 2019)

Nice photos, except that I can't tell which birds if any are actually flying and which birds are just soaring on air currents. They are all so sharp that they all look like the latter. Nothing to me suggests flight. Maybe "birds up in the air" would be a more accurate description.


----------



## tron (Dec 16, 2019)

All photos taken with Nikon cameras are of birds that fly straight keeping the distance to the photographer more or less the same. So NO Big deal. All cameras would manage to take these pictures successffully especially if used by a competent photographer like Ari.


----------



## tron (Dec 16, 2019)

In contrast, photographs taken with 1DxII show movement towards photographer (like "Juvenile falcon changing direction at high speed" and "Juvenile peregrine falcon screaming") and many show bird interactions on air.

Coincidence of course but all these prove that statements like Canon's AF is worse than Nikon's is tottally BS so the switch to Nikon seems to be made for totally different reasons.


----------

