# Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 7, 2012)

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<p><strong>The Key Quick Specs (thanks neuro)

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>18 MP APS-C</li>
<li>DIGIC 5+</li>
<li>SDHC slot, USH-1 complaint</li>
<li>Current xxD’s AF system (9 cross-type points, found in 40D, 50D, 60D)</li>
<li>T3i metering system (63 zones like 7D and 5DIII)</li>
<li>5 fps</li>
<li>Pentamirror Viewfinder</li>
<li>ISO 100-12,800 expandable to 25,600</li>
<li>Articulated touchscreen LCD</li>
<li>Hybrid AF during video shooting</li>
</ul>
<div>
<div id="attachment_10192" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 510px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4ifront.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-10192" title="t4ifront" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4ifront.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon Rebel T4i Front</p></div>
</div>
<div id="attachment_10168" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 510px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4iback.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-10168" title="t4iback" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4iback.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon Rebel T4i Back</p></div>
<div id="attachment_10169" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 510px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4itop.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-10169" title="t4itop" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4itop.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon Rebel T4i Top</p></div>
<div id="attachment_10193" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 510px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4iside.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-10193" title="t4iside" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4iside.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon Rebel T4i Side</p></div>
<p> </p>
<div id="attachment_10196" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 510px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4iside22.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-10196" title="t4iside2" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4iside22.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon Rebel T4i Side</p></div>
<p> </p>
<div id="attachment_10200" class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 510px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4ibottom2.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-10200" title="t4ibottom" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/t4ibottom2.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon Rebel T4i Bottom</p></div>
<p>To read the full spec list, click below.</p>
<p><strong><!--more--></strong></p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS Rebel T4i Specs</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>The form of digital single-lens reflex, AF / AE camera (flash included)</li>
<li>Recording media SD Memory Card, SDHC Memory Card, SDXC memory card</li>
<li>* UHS-I compliant</li>
<li>Image sensor size 22.3 x 14.9 mm approx.</li>
<li>Canon EF lenses, the lens (EF-S Lens)</li>
</ul>
<p>(35mm equivalent focal length marked on the lens focal length of approximately 1.6-fold).</p>
<ul>
<li>Lens Mount Canon EF mount</li>
<li>Image Sensor</li>
<li>Type CMOS sensors</li>
<li>Approximately 18 million pixels Effective Pixels</li>
<li>Aspect Ratio 3:02</li>
<li>Dust features: automatic, manual, dust delete data attached</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Recording System</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Recording Format Design rule for Camera File system (DCF) 2.0</li>
<li>Image format JPEG, RAW (14bit Canon proprietary method)</li>
<li>Can simultaneously record RAW + JPEG Large</li>
<li>Number of recorded pixels L (Large): Approximately 17.90 megapixels (5184 x 3456)</li>
<li>M (Medium): approx. 8.00-megapixel (3456 x 2304)</li>
<li>S1 (Small 1): Approx 4.50 megapixels (2592 x 1728)</li>
<li>S2 (Small 2): ​​Approx 2.50 megapixels (1920 x 1280)</li>
<li>S3 (Small 3): Approximately 350,000 pixels (720 x 480)</li>
<li>RAW: Approximately 17.90 megapixels (5184 x 3456)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Shooting image processing</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Picture Style Auto, Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful, Monochrome, User Def. 1-3</li>
<li>Select expression functions: shooting environment by choosing, depending on lighting and shooting scene</li>
<li>White Balance Auto, Preset (Daylight, Shade, Cloudy, Tungsten light, White fluorescent light, Flash), Custom</li>
<li>White balance correction and white balance bracketing features</li>
<li>* Flash color temperature information for communication</li>
<li>Prolonged exposure and ISO noise reduction can be applied to shooting with high sensitivity</li>
<li>Auto Lighting Optimizer automatically calibrate the brightness of the image</li>
<li>Highlight tone Priority</li>
<li>Ambient light correction lens aberration correction, chromatic aberration correction</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Viewfinder</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Type Eye-level pentaprism</li>
<li>Coverage Vertical / Horizontal approx 95% (approximately eyepoint 19mm)</li>
<li>Magnification approximately 0.85x (with 50mm lens at infinity -1 m-1)</li>
<li>Eyepoint approximately 19 mm (-1 m-1 from eyepiece lens center at)</li>
<li>Built-in diopter adjustment of about -3.0 – +1.0 m-1 (dpt)</li>
<li>Focusing Screen Fixed, Precision Matte</li>
<li>Mirror Quick-return type</li>
<li>Provide depth of field preview</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Autofocus

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Type of image-registration, phase detection TTL 2</li>
<li>Nine cross-type AF points AF points (f/2.8 at the center AF point detects cross-type AF)</li>
<li>Focusing brightness range EV-0.5-18 (23 ° C in, ISO 100)</li>
<li>AF operates One-Shot AF, AI Servo AF, AI Focus AF</li>
<li>Continuous built-in flash AF assist lamp flashes by</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Exposure Control</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Metering modes 63-zone TTL full aperture metering</li>
<li>Evaluative metering (linkable to any AF point)</li>
<li>Partial metering (approx. 9% of viewfinder at center)</li>
<li>Spot metering (approximately 4% of viewfinder at center)</li>
<li>Center-weighted average metering</li>
<li>Metering range EV 1 – 20 (23 ℃, ISO 100)</li>
<li>Exposure Control Program AE (Auto Intelligent Scene, Flash Off, Creative Auto, Portrait, Landscape, Close-up, Sports, Night Portrait,</li>
<li>Night shooting without a tripod, HDR backlight compensation, Program), shutter-priority AE, Aperture Priority AE, Manual Exposure</li>
<li>ISO sensitivity (Recommended Exposure Index) Basic Zone modes: ISO 100 – 3200 range is assigned automatically by</li>
<li>* Portrait: ISO 100, shooting without a tripod at night: ISO 100 – 12800 automatically sets the</li>
<li>Creative Zone modes: ISO 100 – 12800 in the range specified in the manual (1 stop increments), ISO 100 – 6400 range, automatically assigned,</li>
<li>ISO sensitivity up to ISO can be set automatically or ‘H’ (ISO 25600 equivalent) to the ISO extension</li>
<li>Manual Exposure Compensation 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments ± 5 stops</li>
<li>AEB: 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments ± 2 stops (in conjunction with manual exposure compensation possible)</li>
<li>AE Lock Automatic: When focus is achieved with evaluative metering applies in One-Shot AF mode</li>
<li>Manual: AE lock button and use the</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Shutter</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Format electronically controlled focal-plane shutter</li>
<li>Shutter Speed ​​1/4000 seconds to 1/60 sec (Scene Intelligent Auto mode), 1/200 sec X – Sync.</li>
<li>* If you use wide-angle lens, a shutter speed of 1/60 sec or less can be. 1/4000 to 30 seconds, bulb</li>
<li>(Total shutter speed range. Shutter speed range varies by shooting mode.)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Flash</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Built-in Flash Auto pop-up flash</li>
<li>Guide No.: About 13/43 (ISO 100, m / ft)</li>
<li>Flash Range: 17mm lens angle of about</li>
<li>Charging time about 3 seconds.</li>
<li>Provides wireless master unit</li>
<li>EX-series Speedlite external flash (the camera flash functions can be set in).</li>
<li>Flash metering E-TTL II auto flash</li>
<li>Flash Exposure 1.3 or 1.2 stop increments ± 2 stops in</li>
<li>FE lock available</li>
<li>No PC terminal</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Drive System</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Drive mode, every shot, continuous shooting, 10 seconds or 2-second delay self-timer, continuous shooting 10-second delay</li>
<li>Continuous shooting speed up to about 5 frames / sec.</li>
<li>Continuous shooting JPEG Large / Fine: Approx 22 (30) each</li>
<li>RAW: approximately six (6) every</li>
<li>RAW + JPEG Large / Fine: Approx 3 (3) every</li>
<li>* Figures with 8GB card Canon testing standards (ISO 100, ‘Standard’ Picture Style) is based.</li>
<li>* The figures in parentheses UHS-I compatible with the 8GB card is based on Canon testing standards.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>LCD Monitor</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Type TFT color LCD monitor</li>
<li>Monitor size and dots wide, 7.7cm (3.0 inch) (3:02), approximately 1.04 million dots</li>
<li>Angle can be adjusted</li>
<li>Adjust the brightness manually (step 7)</li>
<li>25 language interface languages</li>
<li>Capacitive sensing touch screen technology</li>
<li>Feature can be displayed</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Playback</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Image Display Format Single, Single image + information (basic information, the shooting information, histogram), four each index, every index of 9, the image can be rotated</li>
<li>Approximately zoom 1.5x – 10x</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Live View shooting</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Set Aspect Ratio 3:2, 4:3, 16:9, 1:1</li>
<li>Hybrid CMOS AF focusing system * (+ tracking, FlexiZone-Multi, FlexiZone-Single), phase difference detection method (quick mode)</li>
<li>Manual focus (approximately 5x / 10x magnification possible)</li>
<li>* Focusing brightness range: EV 1-18 (23 ℃ in, ISO 100)</li>
<li>Continuous AF can</li>
<li>Can touch the shutter</li>
<li>Real-time image sensor Metering mode Metering</li>
<li>Evaluative metering (315 segments), partial metering (approximately 8.8% of the Live View screen), spot metering (approximately 2.8% of the Live View screen), Center-weighted average</li>
<li>Metering range EV 0 – 20 (23 ℃, ISO 100)</li>
<li>Display two kinds of lattice</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Video recording</strong></p>
<ul>
<li></li>
<li>MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 video compression</li>
<li>Variable (average) bitrate</li>
<li>Linear PCM audio recording format</li>
<li>MOV video recording format</li>
<li>Record the size and</li>
<li>Frame Rate 1920×1080 (Full HD): 30p/25p/24p</li>
<li>1280×720 (HD): 60p/50p</li>
<li>640×480 (SD): 30p/25p</li>
<li>* 30p: 29.97 fps, 25p: 25.00 fps, 24p: 23.976 fps, 60p: 59.94 fps, 50p: 50.00 fps</li>
<li>File size 1920×1080 (30p/25p/24p): approximately 330 MB / minute</li>
<li>1280×720 (60p/50p): approximately 330 MB / minute</li>
<li>640×480 (30p/25p): Approximately 82.5 MB / minute</li>
<li>Hybrid CMOS AF focusing system * (+ tracking, FlexiZone-Multi, FlexiZone-Single)</li>
<li>Manual focus (approximately 5x / 10x magnification possible)</li>
<li>* Focusing brightness range: EV 1-18 (23 ℃ in, ISO 100)</li>
<li>Evaluative metering with image sensor Metering mode and center-weighted pyeonggyuncheukgwang</li>
<li>* Set the focusing mode automatically, depending on</li>
<li>Is Servo AF</li>
<li>Metering range EV 0 – 20 (23 ℃, ISO 100)</li>
<li>Exposure Control Program AE and Manual Exposure for Video</li>
<li>Exposure Compensation 1.3 stop increments ± 3 stops (stop pictures: ± 5 stops).</li>
<li>ISO sensitivity</li>
<li>(Recommended Exposure Index) Auto exposure shot: ISO 100 – 6400 within the scope of the automatic setting manual exposure, ISO 100 – 6400 within the auto / manual settings,</li>
<li>H (ISO 12800 equivalent), expandable to</li>
<li>Video Snapshot 2 seconds / 4 seconds / 8 seconds can be set</li>
<li>Built-in Stereo Microphone Recording</li>
<li>Provides an external stereo microphone jack</li>
<li>Adjustable recording level, wind filter, providing</li>
<li>Attenuator provides</li>
<li>Display two kinds of lattice</li>
<li>Flashing warning highlights overexposed highlight areas</li>
<li>How a single image, image display, image 100 sheets of 10 hawk jump, jump a CAT scan, folder, jump, jump video, still images, jump, jump grade</li>
<li>Images can be rotated</li>
<li>Provided ratings</li>
<li>Videos can be played (LCD monitors, video / audio output, HDMI OUT)</li>
<li>Built-in Speaker</li>
<li>Images can be protected</li>
<li>All images slide show, date, folder-, video, still images or five kinds of transitions can be selected rating</li>
<li>Background music for slideshows and video playback can be selected</li>
<li>Image processing</li>
<li>Coarse filter effects, monochrome, soft focus, fisheye lens effect, painting effects, color effects, and toy camera effects and miniature effects</li>
<li>Can be resized</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Direct Printing</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Compatible with PictBridge-compatible printer, the printer</li>
<li>Printable images JPEG and RAW images</li>
<li>Compatible with DPOF version 1.1 of the print command</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>User Settings</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>8 kinds of user-defined functions</li>
<li>My menu can be registered</li>
<li>Copyright information can be entered and stored</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Interface</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Audio / Video output /</li>
<li>Digital terminal analog video (NTSC / PAL selectable) / stereo audio output</li>
<li>PC communication and direct printing (Hi-Speed ​​USB), GPS Receiver GP-E2 connection</li>
<li>HDMI mini OUT terminal C-type (resolution, auto-switching), CEC-compatible</li>
<li>The external microphone input terminal</li>
<li>3.5mm diameter stereo mini-jack</li>
<li>Remote Switch RS-60E3 Remote Control for Terminals</li>
<li>Remote Controller RC-6 Wireless Remote Control compatible</li>
<li>Eye-Fi card can be used</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Power</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Battery Battery Pack LP-E8 (1 reviews)</li>
<li>* AC power via AC Adapter Kit ACK-E8 can be used.</li>
<li>* With Battery Grip BG-E8 AA-size when attaching / LR6 batteries can be used.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Battery Life</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>(CIPA test standards basis)</li>
<li>Viewfinder when shooting: 23 ℃ approximately 440 sheets, 0 ℃ approximately 400 sheets</li>
<li>Live View shooting: 23 ℃ approximately 180 shots, 0 ℃ approximately 150 sheets</li>
<li>Video recording time approximately 1 hour and 40 minutes at 23 ℃</li>
<li>About 1 hour and 20 minutes at 0 ℃</li>
<li>(Fully charged Battery Pack LP-E8 is used)</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Size and Weight</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<ul>
<li>Dimensions (W x H x D) 133.1 x 99.8 x 78.8 mm approx.</li>
<li>Weighs about 575 g (CIPA guidelines), approximately 520 g (body only)</li>
<li>Operating Environment</li>
<li>Operating temperature range 0 ℃ ~ 40 ℃</li>
<li>Operating Humidity 85% or less</li>
<li>Battery Pack LP-E8</li>
<li>Type of rechargeable lithium-ion battery</li>
<li>Rated voltage 7.2 V DC</li>
<li>1120 mAh battery capacity</li>
<li>Operating temperature range when charging: 6 ℃ ~ 40 ℃</li>
<li>Shooting: 0 ℃ ~ 40 ℃</li>
<li>Operating Humidity 85% or less</li>
<li>Dimensions (W x H x D) Approx 37.1 x 15.4 x 55.2mm</li>
<li>Weight about 52g</li>
<li>Battery Charger LC-E8</li>
<li>Compatible Battery Battery Pack LP-E8</li>
<li>Charging time Approximately 2 hours (23 ° C in a)</li>
<li>Rated input / output rated input: 100 – 240 V AC (50/60 Hz)</li>
<li>Rated output: 8.4 V DC / 720mA</li>
<li>Operating temperature range 6 ° C ~ 40 ° C</li>
<li>Operating Humidity 85% or less</li>
<li>Dimensions (W x H x D) Approx 69 x 28 x 87.5mm</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<ul>
<li>Weight about 82</li>
<li>Battery Charger LC-E8E</li>
<li>Compatible Battery Battery Pack LP-E8</li>
<li>Charging time Approximately 2 hours (23 ℃ in a)</li>
<li>Rated input / output rated input: 100 – 240 V AC (50/60 Hz)</li>
<li>Rated output: 8.4 V DC / 720mA</li>
<li>Operating Temperature Range 6 ℃ – 40 ℃</li>
<li>Operating Humidity 85% or less</li>
<li>Dimensions (W x H x D) Approx 69 x 28 x 87.5mm</li>
<li>Weight about 82g</li>
</ul>
<p>* All data above Canon’s testing standards and CIPA (Camera Imaging Products Association) testing standards and guidelines is based on.</p>
<p>* Size listed above, the maximum diameter, length and weight guidelines is based on the CIPA (Camera Body Weight excluded).</p>
<p>* Product specifications and appearance are subject to change without notice.</p>
<p>* From the lens of the camera attached to a third party if a problem occurs, please contact the appropriate lens manufacturer.</p>
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## Tymo93 (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*

As expected


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## lexonio (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*

UHS-1! We, the 5DIII'ers, are envious.

Is the sensor new by the way?

UPD: Yeah, according to now-increased auto ISO (12800), it's new. Stereo mic is the nice addition as well.


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## dswatson83 (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*

So does this autofocus in live view? I saw tracking in the live view focus modes...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*

Yikes that's a long list.

Key points:


18 MP APS-C
SDHC slot, UHS-1 compliant
Current xxD's AF system (9 cross-type points, found in 40D, 50D, 60D)
T3i metering system (63 zones like 7D and 5DIII)
~5 fps
standard Rebel viewfinder coverage and mag, but a prism vs. mirrors
ISO 100-12,800 expandable to 25,600
articulated touchscreen LCD
hybrid AF during video shooting


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## traveller (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*

"Viewfinder

■Type Eye-level _pentaprism_" 

If true, a pretty radical departure from 'Rebel' traditions... 

"■Canon EF lenses, the lens (EF-S Lens)
(35mm equivalent focal length marked on the lens focal length of approximately 1.6-fold)."

What on earth does this mean ???. Wouldn't this be extremely confusing, as all other EF and EF-S lenses have their _actual_ focal length marked upon the barrel?


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## lexonio (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> Yikes that's a long list.
> 
> Key points:
> 
> ...


Thank you for putting the list up, but I'd add stereo mic in the basket. It's pretty convenient imo.


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## jpchavez (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*

really important things are always missing for example flash sync speed WE WANT CANON TO GIVE US 1/500 to say the least, 1/160 - 1/200 is a joke, this "new" camera doesnt worth the stretch.


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## preppyak (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*



lexonio said:


> UPD: Yeah, according to now-increased auto ISO (12800), it's new. Stereo mic is the nice addition as well.


That might be the effect of Digic V on the current sensor, or the result of a few tweaks. Until they say its a new sensor, I'd assume its the old one.



dswatson83 said:


> So does this autofocus in live view? I saw tracking in the live view focus modes...


That's the theory, that it can AF in video mode


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## dunkers (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*



jpchavez said:


> really important things are always missing for example flash sync speed WE WANT CANON TO GIVE US 1/500 to say the least, 1/160 - 1/200 is a joke, this "new" camera doesnt worth the stretch.



I don't think they will give us that in a Rebel body, especially for a built-in flash. They probably want you to buy their external flashes to use the high-speed sync to shoot at above 1/200.



traveller said:


> "Viewfinder
> 
> ■Type Eye-level _pentaprism_"
> 
> ...



It looks more like they're making future rebels with similar specs to the 60D, which is often considered a "super rebel". This is evidenced by the increased frame rate and the 9 AF point cross type instead of just center cross like the older rebels.

It looks like they Canon is revamping their lineup. The rumored specs for the 70D appear to be a merger between the 7D and XXD line to restore the XXD lineup's position as a semi-pro camera instead of a pro-sumer.

"35mm equivalent focal length marked on the lens focal length of approximately 1.6-fold"

Probably just their way of confusing customers to say that a cropped sensor has a 1.6 multiplier factor.

EDIT:
After seeing the pictures of an aerial view, I now see that they changed the On/Off switch to include Video mode. Might warrant some complaints about accidentally switching to video mode when meant to turn it on to take pictures in a rush. But that's only if you're clumsy I guess.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*



> Evaluative metering with image sensor Metering mode and center-weighted pyeonggyuncheukgwang



I don't know what_ 'pyeonggyuncheukgwang'_, but if the D800 has it, I want it.

Good video improvements (zebra style warning, variable bit rate: excellent)

Not much for the stills shooter.

With the pentaprism (if correct) and new AF then bang goes two of the big arguments for the 60D.


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## preppyak (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*



paul13walnut5 said:


> Not much for the stills shooter.


The AF being improved is pretty big for still shooters. And the 5fps in shooting. It's basically a 60D now, in a T3i body. 

Considering what little there was from the T2i to T3i transition, this is a much nicer upgrade for camera users.


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## Etienne (Jun 7, 2012)

Spec show a penta-prism, not a penta-mirror ...

... that's not a standard rebel viewfinder, it's an upgrade.


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## whatta (Jun 7, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specifications*



traveller said:


> "Viewfinder
> 
> ■Type Eye-level _pentaprism_"
> 
> If true, a pretty radical departure from 'Rebel' traditions...


indeed, the only thing which caught my eye.. argument for the 60d (vs 600d)


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## iTasneem (Jun 7, 2012)

Is it offical?

What about the diffrents between T3i and T4i?


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## hmmm (Jun 7, 2012)

The emphasis is on video this time for sure. For stills shooters the improvement highlight list is short:

-improved 9 pt AF
-5 fps (jpeg)

--
-improved liveview focusing will help stills shot in that mode as well; digic 5 (not mentioned in list at this point).

What stills photography really want is a NEW sensor with improved dynamic range. We'll have to wait for the T5i for that on a Rebel. The previous rumor is for a 22mp sensor to come out with the 70D. My half-baked plan at this point is to buy a t4i for summer shooting; sell it when the 70D comes out. 

It does look like a pretty decent upgrade, especially for video -- the only real disappointment for me is stretching out that 18mp sensor for one more generation. :


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## catstevens (Jun 7, 2012)

Price guess?


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## Rockets95 (Jun 7, 2012)

catstevens said:


> Price guess?



I'll say $100USD more than T3i


----------



## paul13walnut5 (Jun 7, 2012)

> really important things are always missing for example flash sync speed WE WANT CANON TO GIVE US 1/500 to say the least, 1/160 - 1/200 is a joke, this "new" camera doesnt worth the stretch.



This would mean a radically improved shutter, never ever seen on rebels. If such a thing were to be devised it's exactly the kind of practical improvement that would be pioneered in the 1 series. Not an easy thing to market to the non-technical, who are the majority of the rebels intended user.

I don't know if I'd really be all that bothered in anycase. In a controlled environment the actual exposure duration is the duration of the flash tube burst, much much faster than 1/200th of a second, or even 1/500th of a second.

High speed synch pretty much fixes any problems I've had with daylight fill. I know it requires an external gun, but if you are serious enough about flash then, you'll have one anyway. The HSS power drop won't be any worse than the power of the built in flash anyway.


----------



## hmmm (Jun 7, 2012)

traveller said:


> hmmm said:
> 
> 
> > The emphasis is on video this time for sure. For stills shooters the improvement highlight list is short:
> ...



I have an older Canon dRebel that still works OK, and I could just wait for the 70D, but... I figure if I get a T4i and sell it by the end of the year it should hold its value fairly well, freeing up money for a new camera. 

Almost as good as having your cake now and eating it too.

(I tried responding to this earlier and it appears the post was lost, sorry if this is a dupe.)


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## Rodknee (Jun 7, 2012)

Looks like a good spec if upgrading to a DSLR but not enough of an improvement on the 550/600D to warrant changing. Hopefully this is a good sign for the spec for the 70D which could be a worthwhile step up for 550/600D owners looking to progress. I guess price will be a deciding factor for many purchasers if the 600D is still retained in the Canon range.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 7, 2012)

This re-assures me that canon Will have something special for the 7D mark II.

The Rebel will get the 60D AF

The 70D will recieve the 7D's AF and become the top-tier APS-C body for Canon.

The 7DII will recieve a New AF System and Possibly... Just maybe... APS-H. <---- Ace in the Hole vs D600 Nikon.


----------



## c3hammer (Jun 7, 2012)

No mention of the 3x digital zoom in movie mode. That would be a huge dissappointment if they took that feature out. It's the main reason I purchased the a T3i for wildlife video. I was getting stunning results with a 600mm lens for an equivalent 2880mm focal length at f/5.6

I was looking forward to the new T4i to have reduced moire and alieasing in video mode and the significantly better auto focus for stills.

Here's hoping they didn't remove the 3x feature, but just failed to mention it here on this spec list.

Cheers,
Pete
http://vimeo.com/petecarney/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/c3hammer


----------



## bp (Jun 7, 2012)

it can "jump a CAT scan"?!?!

been waiting for that forever.


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## preppyak (Jun 7, 2012)

catstevens said:


> Price guess?


$949 or $999 with the 18-55 kit would be my guess. Take $100 for body-only. T4i with the new 18-135 would probably be $1199, it's usually a $200-250 price premium over the kit lens combo


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## preppyak (Jun 7, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> The 7DII will recieve a New AF System and Possibly... Just maybe... APS-H. <---- Ace in the Hole vs D600 Nikon.


The D600 is, by rumors, a full-frame camera that is a lower MP, crippled version of the D800. Kind of like a better 5dII if you would. And the 7dII would be an improvement over the 7D. So how is an awesome APS-C camera an ace in the hole against a cheap full-frame camera? Completely different set of users.

I do agree it bodes well for the 70D getting some useful upgrades, seeing as the T4i is currently on par with the 60D on everything but build quality.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 7, 2012)

preppyak said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > The 7DII will recieve a New AF System and Possibly... Just maybe... APS-H. <---- Ace in the Hole vs D600 Nikon.
> ...



APS-H with 10FPS and Great ISO performance for sub 2000$ would make me reconsider the d600 vs the 7DII.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 7, 2012)

preppyak said:


> I do agree it bodes well for the 70D getting some useful upgrades, seeing as the T4i is currently on par with the 60D on everything but build quality.



70D will get the 7D's AF and the same 18 MP sensor. 7DII will keep the same AF and get a new sensor. 

"_APS-H with 10FPS and Great ISO performance for sub 2000$..._" what are you high on and where can I get some?!?


----------



## seymour110 (Jun 7, 2012)

Digiv IV or V?


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## Rodknee (Jun 7, 2012)

Another rumour site is quoting a Digic V - but these are rumours. We should know tomorrow for sure


----------



## BRNexus6 (Jun 7, 2012)

No headphone jack, no All-I compression, no mention of recording limit.

It also doesn't list manual white balance in kelvin. Why does Canon treat this like a premium feature?

Also, has the processor and sensor been updated?

Doesn't seem like a worthy upgrade if you already own a T3i.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 7, 2012)

It's DIGIC 5+


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## tHarten (Jun 7, 2012)

Okay, well I'm about to buy my first DSLR and i've been waiting for a month or 3 _(been tracking this site on and off for 3 months aswel) _for this one to arrive, which wasn't too bad since i wasn't in a hurry anyway. I have used a few Canon rebels before and hence the reason i wanted to buy one, the experience and the opportunity to swap lenses between one another. 


from here on out i'll explain my choices based on my (perhaps wrongly) attained knowledge gained from browsing and reading up on camera gear.

So from the information i've gathered it would be wise to go for prime lenses since they "teach" you to become a better photographer, besides i'll use this camera for video shooting aswel and since I use a glidecam HD1000 zooming with lenses completely throws it off balance again. Also i was under the impression that the "kit" lens hardly delivers the quality that the t4i body has to offer, thus i thought investing in primes is a great way to get all the quality out of the body.

I wanted to buy a Sigma 10-20mm F/4 - 5.6 Mainly for action shots combined with the glidecam (Didn't want to go for a fisheye due to it being way overused in the parkour scene)
A Canon 35mm F/2.0, mainly for portraits. The reason for this is my friend complaining about his Canon 50mm F/1.8, it's great but just not so practical in small rooms due to the crop sensor on his T2i.
To cover some more range i thought investing in either a Canon 85mm / 100mm (prime). 

The reason for posting it in this specific topic is, well mainly for the next question. The sensor seems the same but the ISO has been upped to 25600. From my (little) experience using the camera at 1200 or higher gets you real grainy pictures right? So what's the use from upping it from 12800 to 25600 that's shitloads of grain we're talking about right?

Or is the ISO performance improved on this body by using DIGIC V+?

Hope you can help me out here !


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## Midphase (Jun 7, 2012)

Any idea if there is an improvement with video moire and aliasing over the older sensor? (i.e. like we've seen in the new 5d).


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## K-amps (Jun 7, 2012)

Same old sensor? :

In that case I would be interested in knowing how much can I get a used T2i for after this is announced...


----------



## BRNexus6 (Jun 7, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Same old sensor? :
> 
> In that case I would be interested in knowing how much can I get a used T2i for after this is announced...



Hopefully, it's a new 18MP sensor built from the ground up, but knowing Canon I doubt it. Probably just the same sensor with some slight tweaks and Digic V processor.


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## Marine03 (Jun 7, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Same old sensor? :



I don't see how they could keep the same sensor for the 70D or 7D2, question is, with the 7D2 being rumored at 10-11 FPS and T4i being 5FPS will the 70D be in the middle at 7 or 8? 

Maybe I'm a feature snob but I want as high FPS and a new sensor when I upgrade from my 450D for $1500


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## whatta (Jun 7, 2012)

let's see the dpreview hands on tomorrow 

btw where is the 640*480 @ 120 fps from s100?


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## tomsop (Jun 7, 2012)

i posted before but could not find it or any replies.


I have the Rebel XSI - I want video. This will be a substantial improvement but I do not understand the critiques. Seems majore one is the use of an old sensor. I want to have new technology in my components especially as you can see it has been 4 years since my last purchase. Should I wait for the 7DII since it appears it will have new components though more costly with additional features - I do not want to wait much longer beyond this late summer - other comments interpreting this spec list as a good deal or should I wait more? - Tom


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## K-amps (Jun 7, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Same old sensor? :
> ...



They reused that sensor in several models across the line over a few years... so don't be surprised. If you are willing to spend $1500, perhaps a 7D is under consideration?

I do not understand Canon... why are they taking a back seat to the Exmor boys.... regardless of what the purists say, The ground reality is that MP & ISO performance sells, why would they let Sonikon take away market share like this?


----------



## K-amps (Jun 7, 2012)

tomsop said:


> i posted before but could not find it or any replies.
> 
> 
> I have the Rebel XSI - I want video. This will be a substantial improvement but I do not understand the critiques. Seems majore one is the use of an old sensor. I want to have new technology in my components especially as you can see it has been 4 years since my last purchase. Should I wait for the 7DII since it appears it will have new components though more costly with additional features - I do not want to wait much longer beyond this late summer - other comments interpreting this spec list as a good deal or should I wait more? - Tom



No one knows exactly what the 7Dii will have thus you have not had replies.... I'd be willing to bet $10 it has the same sensor, will not surprise me. However if you can wait for a nice surprise, then do so. Good things come to those who wait.


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## Marine03 (Jun 7, 2012)

K-amps said:


> They reused that sensor in several models across the line... so don't be surprised. If you are willing to spend $1500, perhaps a 7D is under consideration?



I'd love a 7D, but have a hard time spending money on lets say an Iphone 4 knowing a 5 is a few months out with new tech. With that being said Even though the 70D or current 7D are capable camera's when I make the move from my 450D I'd like it to be the newest tech not 3 or 4 year old tech.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 7, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> ...but have a hard time spending money on lets say an Iphone 4 knowing a 5 is a few months out with new tech...



That's pretty much every iPhone generation. At least the xD series has a longer life cycle.


----------



## adroid28 (Jun 7, 2012)

Hi all 

Complete beginner here. Well even less than beginner since I haven't even got a camera yet!
I have the same question as tHarten. Will the Digic-V increase ISO performance (less noise at high ISO's) or is it completely irrelevant?

Thanks 

Dionysis


----------



## recemonster (Jun 7, 2012)

Some body uploaded 2 video's about the touchscreen:
Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Touchscreen Example Videos Playing with the playback features.
Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Touchscreen Example Videos Playing with the functions

It looks prety real to me but dont blame me if its fake!


----------



## K-amps (Jun 7, 2012)

adroid28 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Complete beginner here. Well even less than beginner since I haven't even got a camera yet!
> I have the same question as tHarten. Will the Digic-V increase ISO performance (less noise at high ISO's) or is it completely irrelevant?
> ...



Assuming it has the same sensor, yes the Digic 5 can produce less noise in *jpegs* due to better faster processing & Algorithms. However if sensor is same, then perhaps the *RAW's* will be the same too.


----------



## Rodknee (Jun 7, 2012)

Can Magic Lantern work on the Digic V+ ?


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## BRNexus6 (Jun 7, 2012)

I really hope something comes out in the APS-C range that offers cleaner high ISO performance than the current rebel line. The T2i starts to break apart at ISO 1600, so it would be really great if Canon has improved the sensor/noise performance.


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## K-amps (Jun 7, 2012)

Rodknee said:


> Can Magic Lantern work on the Digic V+ ?


Yes they made some part of it work in the 5diii, but be prepared for wait for a usable version.


----------



## adroid28 (Jun 7, 2012)

K-amps said:


> adroid28 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all
> ...



Thank you for your answer 

So that is quite useless since in any case to get the best quality/flexibility I will shoot in RAW. I can then use Denoise software that will be the same or better than the internal processing..

So if there is no new sensor in terms of quality I am going to get the same as the t2i... 
But the most important thing is the image quality!! Surely that should improve in an upgrade..


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 7, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marine03 said:
> 
> 
> > ...but have a hard time spending money on lets say an Iphone 4 knowing a 5 is a few months out with new tech...
> ...



Exactly I'd rather come in on the front end of a new sensor that will remain current for 3 years than one that is basically 1 gen behind.


----------



## preppyak (Jun 7, 2012)

tHarten said:


> Or is the ISO performance improved on this body by using DIGIC V+?


It's possible it will help the video out some, simply by being able to process faster and allowing for higher-res recording. I wouldn't expect any big difference in noise performance for video though.

Based on your needs, the video AF could be nice if it actually works. While the 10-20 won't really need it, other lenses can use it. And even with the 10-20, while you're running along with a glidecam, it'd be nice not to have to worry about focusing. Biggest feature for you, if you also take pictures, would be the AF and FPS. Makes it more likely you lock focus and get a cool shot in action.


adroid28 said:


> So if there is no new sensor in terms of quality I am going to get the same as the t2i...
> But the most important thing is the image quality!! Surely that should improve in an upgrade..


Would have been nice to see an upgrade sensor, but IQ doesn't mean anything if your shot is out of focus, or you missed the moment. The AF will be a noticeable upgrade from the T3i, and the burst rate will also be a noticeable upgrade. Since many rebel users are people shooting their families and people running around, those are important. And most of them wouldn't notice the difference between an 18mp sensor or a 22mp sensor, except that maybe they'd need a slightly larger hard-drive with the larger sensor


----------



## telephonic (Jun 7, 2012)

As many others, the departure from mirror to prism caught my eyes in the first place.

I'm impressed with the layout of the buttons just beside the articulated LCD, it looks quite ergonomic. But from the front, I can't see clearly where the DoF preview button is. Any ideas?

And the top view, right in front of the hot-shoe, is that stereo mic? I wish it will perform well, but maybe I shouldn't hope too much.  By the way, the prominent ISO button... I think this is a bit too much for most rebel buyer, isn't it? And the video switch, let's hope it won't be tripped too easily.

All in all, I think this is a beautiful camera. For those who is looking for their first SLR, they won't be disappointed (some days of confusion at most, I think ). For those who understand how SLR works, this might not be our cup of tea, so bring either 70D or 7DII on!


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## Silverstream (Jun 7, 2012)

I want to ask just for clarity. Is this for sure the old sensor or a new one? I'm not asking for speculation or deductive reasoning. Does anyone truly know?


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 7, 2012)

Silverstream said:


> I want to ask just for clarity. Is this for sure the old sensor or a new one? I'm not asking for speculation or deductive reasoning. Does anyone truly know?



Is there supposed to be a press conference? If so I'm guessing that's when they would say something?


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## preppyak (Jun 7, 2012)

telephonic said:


> By the way, the prominent ISO button... I think this is a bit too much for most rebel buyer, isn't it? And the video switch, let's hope it won't be tripped too easily.


The button layout on the back is the exact same as the T3i, and the only change on top is that the ISO button moves left as they got rid of the Display on/off button. 



Marine03 said:


> Is there supposed to be a press conference? If so I'm guessing that's when they would say something?


Believe its tomorrow, so we'd know for sure then. Im not sure anyone can know for sure until then, since a spec list won't clarify new sensor or not


----------



## K-amps (Jun 7, 2012)

adroid28 said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > adroid28 said:
> ...



I wanted an APS-C for birding myself but was waiting for a T4i announcement and people to dump their T2i's once the sensor was not a whole lot different... so yes I agree with you. The only thing the T4i does for me is depreciate the T2i .


However if it is a new / improved sensor, I'd need to rethink this...


----------



## koolman (Jun 7, 2012)

I have a t2i and was "itching" to upgrade. I shoot stills only, as a hobby.

Is this t4i a real step up ? For me it would be if:

- The live view manual focus was usable in daylight ?

- The AF was actually more accurate and reliable then a t2i ?

- The digic 5+ and improved sensor ? actually made real life difference ?

Thoughts ?


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## pete vella (Jun 7, 2012)

3x-10x crop mode?


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## Balthazar (Jun 7, 2012)

Pentaprism really ? Or rather pentamirror viewfinder ?


----------



## darrenra (Jun 7, 2012)

Typical Canon. I guessing this is the same 18mp sensor as the 7D, t2i, t3i, and 60D which they have not updated for 3 years. Just a new body and processor with new functions, which will equal no RAW improvement in sensor performance. But we get a new touch screen. Woopty doo.


----------



## hmmm (Jun 7, 2012)

recemonster said:


> Some body uploaded 2 video's about the touchscreen:
> It looks prety real to me but dont blame me if its fake!



Good stuff - thanks for posting. It does look like a better touchscreen implementation than I would've expected.


----------



## qska (Jun 7, 2012)

> *Drive System*
> 
> Continuous shooting JPEG Large / Fine: Approx 22 (30) each
> *RAW: approximately six (6) every
> RAW + JPEG Large / Fine: Approx 3 (3) every*



That's baaaaaaaaad. My 400D can shoot a series of 9 RAW+JPEG images to fill the buffer. This has gradually become worse in every edition of a Rebel. But 3? Come on....

Unless my daughter suddenty stops running around I'll have to get a 60D just for the burst buffer.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 7, 2012)

preppyak said:


> I do agree it bodes well for the 70D getting some useful upgrades, seeing as the T4i is currently on par with the 60D on everything but build quality.



Don't forget the better ergonomics of the 60d - buttons, back dial, top lcd. I got the 60d because of these, and I wouldn't want any other body without them, no matter what the specs are, and I'm not just saying this because I happen to have a 60d. Many people who get excited about the 650d are 7d/5d amateurs that wouldn't touch a Rebel with a 10 feet pole.



K-amps said:


> Rodknee said:
> 
> 
> > Can Magic Lantern work on the Digic V+ ?
> ...



It seems indeed promising, but don't be so quick to announce ml on the digic5 - just now they can only print "Hello, World", no one can say if all features will work on the new processor. And I estimate it'll take about a year to get a stable port - ml is basically developed by a single person (Alex).


----------



## Halocastle (Jun 7, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree it bodes well for the 70D getting some useful upgrades, seeing as the T4i is currently on par with the 60D on everything but build quality.
> ...



Less time than that I would imagine. Having a Digic 5+ processor in a "cheaper" body makes "bricking" more tolerable. Few wish to subject a $3,500 camera to testing.

Oh, and the "oil painting effect," let us not forget that!


----------



## nentraC (Jun 7, 2012)

Halocastle said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > preppyak said:
> ...



Did i miss something or is the 650 processor Digic 5 not 5+ ?! So mutch talk about ml but i could be wrong the 7d has Digic 5 and no ml. I realy could be wrong cous i think i read thos things on the nets.

edit: oh i googlet it the 7d has 2xdigic 4


----------



## DB (Jun 7, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree it bodes well for the 70D getting some useful upgrades, seeing as the T4i is currently on par with the 60D on everything but build quality.
> ...



I think 10 fps is now a given for a 7D2 with dual Digic5+ chips, but I fear that the old sensor may remain, after all, how could they introduce a new higher MP APS-H sensor than the current 1D4 that still sells for a grand more than the new 5D3. I fear that we'll see the same 18MP sensor & same 19-point AF, but with slightly better noise performance, dual memory cards, some video tweaks etc. 

You posted a graphic before of the AF overlay on crop vs FF, do you have the same for what current 7D AF would look like on an APS-H sensor through the viewfinder? Would 19 AF points on APS-H be too far from the edges or could they change AF point layout without incurring significant additional production cost?


----------



## skrettis (Jun 7, 2012)

NO GPS option enabled - IS NO new REBEL for me! Bloody


----------



## c3hammer (Jun 7, 2012)

Specs show a USB GPS link if I'm not mistaken

edit: here it is
- •PC communication and direct printing (Hi-Speed ​​USB), GPS Receiver GP-E2 connection


----------



## zim (Jun 7, 2012)

Hi-Speed USB, that will be 2 then :


----------



## D_Rochat (Jun 8, 2012)

Flippy swively touch screen, but no direct facebook uploading or Instagram! WTF Canon!?!


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 8, 2012)

It is 8:46AM in Japan right now... do they get the announcements first or are we waiting for New York tomorrow?


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## brickhouse (Jun 8, 2012)

Metering modes 63-zone TTL full aperture metering

Evaluative metering (linkable to any AF point)

Partial metering (approx. 9% of viewfinder at center)



Isn't the evaluative metering linkable to any AF point a significant upgrade?

It is my understanding that feature is currently only on the 1D series


----------



## simonxu11 (Jun 8, 2012)

brickhouse said:


> Metering modes 63-zone TTL full aperture metering
> 
> Evaluative metering (linkable to any AF point)
> 
> ...



Evaluative metering linkable to any AF point is on all Canon's DSLRs
Spot metering linkable to certain AF points is only on 1D series


----------



## drjlo (Jun 8, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> It is 8:46AM in Japan right now... do they get the announcements first or are we waiting for New York tomorrow?



T4i is now on pre-order at B&H with full specs. $849. 
Unless somebody says otherwise, looks like the tired old 18 MP sensor with "hybrid AF" thrown in 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/870175-REG/Canon_EOS_Rebel_T4i_Digital.html


----------



## akiskev (Jun 8, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> It's DIGIC 5+


No no, it's Digic5.


----------



## ssrdd (Jun 8, 2012)

Canon fu---ing lost around 18MP, saying this is a brand new technology. sick of u.

didn't they know about 3200???


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 8, 2012)

drjlo said:


> T4i is now on pre-order at B&H with full specs. $849.
> Unless somebody says otherwise, looks like the tired old 18 MP sensor with "hybrid AF" thrown in



 Yea same old Sensor.......I probably wasn't going to upgrade to this body anyway but had hoped a new sensor here would mean a new sensor for the 70D for sure... now just have to keep my fingers crossed. However the Digic 5 really allows for much greater ISO in JPEG that's for sure.

I'm starting to hope that for only $1100 I'll be able to get a 70D Body.


----------



## nentraC (Jun 8, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> drjlo said:
> 
> 
> > T4i is now on pre-order at B&H with full specs. $849.
> ...



dpreview says its a updated sensor. So i dont know any moor.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i/3


----------



## moreorless (Jun 8, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> Canon fu---ing lost around 18MP, saying this is a brand new technology. sick of u.
> 
> didn't they know about 3200???



For most entry level users I think they've taken the correct route, FF DSLR's like the D800/5D mk3 are one thing as most buyers there are going to be willing to invest in quality lenses but 90% of entry level users stick with either kit zooms or superzooms. Those lenses(and indeed many more expensive ones) simpley arent going to make the most of 24 MP while the extras on the 650D(better AF, higher FPS, better viewfinder) are going to be a bonus to pretty much any users even if they don't shoot video or care about the touch screen.

Personally the impression I'm getting from the 650D is that its partly a response to the mirrorless market looking to emphasize the advantages of DSLR's with the better AF and VF.

If Canon introduce there own mirrorless as rumoured I'd guess its going to be positioned below the 650D as the entry level to large sensor cameras.


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 8, 2012)

That DP review was useless. I need to see RAW samples compared to a 60d


----------



## ozzy666 (Jun 8, 2012)

Sure you have to see RAW to compare,but even looking at those jpegs blurred by Digic5 there are clear signs that ISO performance\noise treshold remains the same like old 18mp.


----------



## psolberg (Jun 8, 2012)

articulated screen is a big plus and the touch screen should keep the entry level buyer impressed. very well place IMO. sensor appears unchagned? if so, it will be nothing to write home about IQ wise but more of a refinement of the body and certainly appeal to the consumer looking for cool factor. the touch screen will no doubt be the one selling point.


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 8, 2012)

after searching 650D review, every article I've found says NEW Sensor, but they must be considering it new since it includes the phase detection AF.


----------



## ozzy666 (Jun 8, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> after searching 650D review, every article I've found says NEW Sensor, but they must be considering it new since it includes the phase detection AF.


You absolutely right.


----------



## dlleno (Jun 8, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> after searching 650D review, every article I've found says NEW Sensor, but they must be considering it new since it includes the phase detection AF.



I'm no physicist, but why does the inclusion of phase detection AF mean that the sensor technology cycle itself has been updated to a newer, higher-ISO performance cycle? Would it not be possible to tweek the tired old 18MP sensor with this new AF capability?


----------



## K-amps (Jun 8, 2012)

nentraC said:


> Marine03 said:
> 
> 
> > drjlo said:
> ...



Surprise Surprise! Same old sensor...

One can see a hate group developing against dpreview just as we hate DxO.... wink wink, nudge, nudge !


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 8, 2012)

Ran across this graphic, which shows the area of the phase detection sensitivity on the CMOS image sensor, relative to the area of the 9-point standard phase detect AF system.


----------



## nentraC (Jun 8, 2012)

K-amps said:


> nentraC said:
> 
> 
> > Marine03 said:
> ...



im in the market for my first dslr and so i try to be as objektiv as possible. I allso can understand the "hate" against dpreview and DxO caus the best scoring dslrs are Nikons and we ar on a Canon site.

I found a video preview of the 650d and on guy is obwiously from Canon and is saying the sensor is new deweloped.

Canon EOS 650D


----------



## K-amps (Jun 8, 2012)

Based on the video it does seem to be a new sensor, but is it merely a hybrid over the old sensor or a completely re-build form ground up sensor... I just got a little interested in the 650 if thats the case...


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## dlleno (Jun 8, 2012)

as far as "newly developed" that is certainly true from the standpoint of phase detection AF. what is astonishingly missing from these communication is any notion of a new technology cycle bringing new advances in ISO performance.

this "new" sensor to me sounds like the same, tired old 18MP sensor re-fabbed to accomodate the new AF capabilities without any real new technology cycle in terms of ISO performance.


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## K-amps (Jun 8, 2012)

dlleno said:


> as far as "newly developed" that is certainly true from the standpoint of phase detection AF. what is astonishingly missing from these communication is any notion of a new technology cycle bringing new advances in ISO performance.
> 
> this "new" sensor to me sounds like the same, tired old 18MP sensor re-fabbed to accomodate the new AF capabilities without any real new technology cycle in terms of ISO performance.



I fear the same...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 8, 2012)

nentraC said:


> I found a video preview of the 650d and on guy is obwiously from Canon and is saying the sensor is new deweloped.



Yes, but what extactly does that mean? The 18-55mm MkII kit lens was billed as new solely because of new IS algorithms (and some coemetic changes), but the optics are identical to the original. 

If I had to guess, I'd say that Canon in effect 'bolted on' the phase detection components onto the existing 18 MP sensor. There was a suggestion in one review that, "_Although Canon UK was unable to tell us how many pixels are used for phase detection AF, or how they are arranged, we're told that these pixels aren't on exactly the same plane as the imaging pixels._" 

If true, that suggests that from an image capture standpoint, the 'new' sensor is no different from the one found in the T2i/550D, T3i/600D, 60D, and 7D.


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## Halocastle (Jun 8, 2012)

It IS a NEW sensor. Canon reports it consumes less power than the old 18MP sensor (not to mention the hybrid AF). It is NEW.

"The same number of pixels in the EOS Kiss X5, has developed a new image quality and also to enhance performance. Support high-speed readout of 5 fps / up to about, and has realized the imaging plane phase difference AF (hybrid CMOS AF), and further power saving."

By NEW do you all mistakenly mean DIFFERENT?

Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.

As an aside, am I the only one who knows Canon is a Japanese company and Google has a translation service?


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## K-amps (Jun 8, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> nentraC said:
> 
> 
> > I found a video preview of the 650d and on guy is obwiously from Canon and is saying the sensor is new deweloped.
> ...



I am curious, how can they build (layer) a phase detection sensor over an existing image sensor without causing filtering effects on the actual image (unless they use some algorithm to actively fill in those empty/ light blocked spots) .... the other method would be the Sony way of adding a transluscent layer, but again this would cause light loss... anyone of physical picture so of the new sensor itself?


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## nentraC (Jun 8, 2012)

K-amps said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > nentraC said:
> ...



I dont know if this is the real deal http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i/3
The sensor picture could be just simbolik


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## dlleno (Jun 8, 2012)

Halocastle said:


> It IS a NEW sensor. Canon reports it consumes less power than the old 18MP sensor (not to mention the hybrid AF). It is NEW.
> 
> "The same number of pixels in the EOS Kiss X5, has developed a new image quality and also to enhance performance. Support high-speed readout of 5 fps / up to about, and has realized the imaging plane phase difference AF (hybrid CMOS AF), and further power saving."



Well, the above could be describing the camera itself as having new image quality and further power saving, both of which can be acheived with Digic 5. imho, without a pre-concieved conclusion here, the English gramatical structure produced by google translate cannot be trusted to provide direct evidence that we have a new technology cycle of the sensor itself, bringing new levels of ISO performance. Lets hope for the best, but lets not start doing the hokey pokey until we have real performance data


> By NEW do you all mistakenly mean DIFFERENT?
> 
> Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.



no one will argue that. Digic 5 on top of the old, tired 18mp sensor currently used in the 7D will provide better IQ. Again, what is conspicuously missing from these communications is a direct statement indicating a new technology life cycle with regards to the ISO performance of the sensor itself. Most of us want what you have concluded has already happened -- no increase in MP with a improvment in ISO and IQ of the sensor itself. I'm just withholding judgement until I see better evidence.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 8, 2012)

Halocastle said:


> It IS a NEW sensor. Canon reports it consumes less power than the old 18MP sensor (not to mention the hybrid AF). It is NEW.
> 
> "The same number of pixels in the EOS Kiss X5, has developed a new image quality and also to enhance performance. Support high-speed readout of 5 fps / up to about, and has realized the imaging plane phase difference AF (hybrid CMOS AF), and further power saving."



I don't think there's doubt that it's 'new' but rather whether there is any actual difference in the aspects of the sensor which record the captured image. Similar to my reference above, the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II is clearly a new lens relative to the original, but it's optically identical, meaning from an image forming standpoint, new ≠ different/better.

You have to be careful reading Canon's marketing materials when they use words like 'new image quality' (especially when it's a Google translation - recall that the original translation of the spec list had the 650D with a pentaprism, when it's a pentamirror like all the other Rebels). Canon throws out terms like 'two full stops better' without specifying that it's almost all in the RAW conversion.

The changes you describe could easily have nothing to do with RAW image IQ.



Halocastle said:


> Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.



Vastly important IF you shoot in jpg, yes. If you shoot in RAW, then Digic 5 is relatively unimportant as it relates to image quality.



K-amps said:


> I am curious, how can they build (layer) a phase detection sensor over an existing image sensor without causing filtering effects on the actual image (unless they use some algorithm to actively fill in those empty/ light blocked spots)



Even with 'gapless microlenses' there are spaces between photosites, which are at the back of the sensor in any case. PDAF sensors are line sensors that can be made pretty thin.






Also, as you state, they could easily interpolate around those small areas - consider the semi-automatic remapping of dead/hot pixels when you manually clean the sensor.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 8, 2012)

Halocastle said:


> Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.



In additions to the good replies above, I have to say I'm at a complete loss how people can think the cpu is the most important part of a dslr when it's mainly shoving pixel data from a (sensor) to b (card). Sure it can do in-camera jpeg what you could only do in postprocessing before (nr, ca correction), it might save some power and for video noise reduction it's certainly important, but that's about it.

If someone offered you two computers, one with windows 8, 256mb of ram, on-board gpu and a core i7, the other with windows 7 (magic lantern!), 4gb ram, dedicated gpu card and w/ a core i5 - which would you take?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 8, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> If someone offered you two computers, one with windows 8, 256mb of ram, on-board gpu and a core i7, the other with windows 7 (magic lantern!), 4gb ram, dedicated gpu card and w/ a core i5 - which would you take?



I'd take the Mac. Wait, did I just suggest that I'd switch to Nikon?!?


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## x-vision (Jun 8, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> after searching 650D review, every article I've found says NEW Sensor, but they must be considering it new since it includes the phase detection AF.



I just looked at the ISO-series of samples on DPreview. 

The 650D definitely has a brand new sensor ... with the exact same performance as the one on the 600D, 60D, and 7D.


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## aznable (Jun 8, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > If someone offered you two computers, one with windows 8, 256mb of ram, on-board gpu and a core i7, the other with windows 7 (magic lantern!), 4gb ram, dedicated gpu card and w/ a core i5 - which would you take?
> ...



mac...lol...btw both 256mb and 4gb have insufficient ram for running ligthroom.

having a very good autofocus on camera for videos would turn out to be a big plus...just wait a little more


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## Marsu42 (Jun 8, 2012)

aznable said:


> mac...lol...btw both 256mb and 4gb have insufficient ram for running ligthroom.



Not my experience, it runs on my 4gb laptop just fine - but as a single application, so it can use almost all of the ram.



x-vision said:


> The 650D definitely has a brand new sensor ... with the exact same performance as the one on the 600D, 60D, and 7D.



 ... and 550d, which is now really a bargain because it runs magic lantern, too!


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## aznable (Jun 8, 2012)

1) yap...some days ago i saw lightroom taking 2.9gb on my Windows 8 laptop...so i upgraded to 8gb...as the people shooting videos would upgrade to 650D if the new autofocus in live view mode would turn out a useful features even without ml


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## cliffwang (Jun 8, 2012)

aznable said:


> 1) yap...some days ago i saw lightroom taking 2.9gb on my Windows 8 laptop...so i upgraded to 8gb...as the people shooting videos would upgrade to 650D if the new autofocus in live view mode would turn out a useful features even without ml


You should upgrade your memory to 8GB years ago. Memory is a small investment and bring huge benefit if you use PS and LR. None of my computers is running under 8GB of memory.


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## Midphase (Jun 8, 2012)

So...I don't suppose anyone knows if rolling shutter has been improved or not on this camera?


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## Halocastle (Jun 9, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Halocastle said:
> 
> 
> > Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.
> ...



Pixel count over processing, really? Good luck with that one. Besides, I never wrote that "the cpu was the most important part" of a DSLR--it's A/F accuacy followed by A/F speed.


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## ssrdd (Jun 9, 2012)

moreorless said:


> ssrdd said:
> 
> 
> > Canon lost around 18MP, saying this is a brand new technology. sick of u.
> ...



1200usd [including lens] is a cheap alternative for entry level user???? great as long as u have money.


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## briansquibb (Jun 9, 2012)

> really important things are always missing for example flash sync speed WE WANT CANON TO GIVE US 1/500 to say the least, 1/160 - 1/200 is a joke, this "new" camera doesnt worth the stretch.



That was why Canon invented HSS so that sync speed didn't matter.


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## Herero (Jun 9, 2012)

so now that they are essentially the same price and based on the info we have now, would you buy a 60d or a 650d? Ive been waiting ages to upgrade from my XS


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## Marsu42 (Jun 9, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> That was why Canon invented HSS so that sync speed didn't matter.



This certainly fixes it for the most part, but as you know it's no real replacement: higher battery drain, lower flash output & no 2nd curtain sync.



ssrdd said:


> 1200usd [including lens] is a cheap alternative for entry level user???? great as long as u have money.



For enthusiast's standards of this forum, this is extremely cheap relative to other Canon gear people are getting for their recreation - "entry level" means "anything below the 7d" and L lenses, get used to it or buy a Nikon, you cheapo  ...


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## briansquibb (Jun 9, 2012)

aznable said:


> 1) yap...some days ago i saw lightroom taking 2.9gb on my Windows 8 laptop...so i upgraded to 8gb...as the people shooting videos would upgrade to 650D if the new autofocus in live view mode would turn out a useful features even without ml



How are you finding Win8? - I am not keen on the new interface

The kernal is of course almost pure Win 7 so there shouldn't be problems there


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## aznable (Jun 10, 2012)

cliffwang said:


> You should upgrade your memory to 8GB years ago. Memory is a small investment and bring huge benefit if you use PS and LR. None of my computers is running under 8GB of memory.



my laptop is used mainly for work, so it's used more as a terminal than a workstation and i dont used PS at all, but for lightroom i have a server at work with 64gb, 8 xeon cores and 1.4GB/sec bandwidth to a EMC2 VMAX; of course it's not a dedicated machine, i do different kida games with them.

a nice upgrade you should do is to get a good ssd for you workstations… i saw SSD Sandisk extreme getting cheap enough lately...leass than 200€ for 240GB

but we are going OT

10x for the good advice anyway


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## dlleno (Jun 10, 2012)

Back to the camera... its looking to me like the new 18MP sensor itself is not making any real contributions to IQ/DR/ISO. the marketing thrust of this camera is about the AF and in-camera jpg processing, such as the four-image noise reduction capability. I'm just not seeing anyone suggest that ISO and noise were addressed in this sensor technology cycle.


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## ssrdd (Jun 11, 2012)

no ALL-i codec? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


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## cliffwang (Jun 11, 2012)

aznable said:


> my laptop is used mainly for work, so it's used more as a terminal than a workstation and i dont used PS at all, but for lightroom i have a server at work with 64gb, 8 xeon cores and 1.4GB/sec bandwidth to a EMC2 VMAX; of course it's not a dedicated machine, i do different kida games with them.
> 
> a nice upgrade you should do is to get a good ssd for you workstations… i saw SSD Sandisk extreme getting cheap enough lately...leass than 200€ for 240GB
> 
> ...



4 SSDs in my 6 systems. I put 128GB SSDs for my laptops and 64GB SSDs for desktops + HDD RAID. All systems and applications are on SSDs. HDDs are only for data storage. Actually when you have HDD RAID, the HDD's performance are also great. My 5 2TB RAID(total 8TB storage) can reach about 200MB/sec.


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## cliffwang (Jun 11, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> 1200usd [including lens] is a cheap alternative for entry level user???? great as long as u have money.


I think the value is depends on how much you care about photos. One of my friend makes more money than me. Last weekend he asked me which DSLR is good to buy. Since he hasn't used DSLR, I believe T4i might be a good one for a beginner. When he heard the T4i + 40mm is about 1K, he asked me for other suggestion. Thus, when he asked me how much I spent for my gears, my answers is that you have better not to know.


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## whatta (Jun 27, 2012)

it really looks like the same 3 years old sensor from the 7d..

basically what does the digic5 do which digic4 could not?

from wiki

"_DIGIC 5 is now featured on Canon compact cameras like PowerShot SX40 HS to achieve a capture rate of 10.3 frames per second at full resolution in High-Speed Burst HQ, Full HD 1080p Videos and Intelligent Image Stabilization. The new DIGIC 5 processor is 6 times faster and creates 75 percent less noise than the DIGIC 4 processor.[7]Designed to achieve new and advanced levels of image quality, DIGIC 5 analyses four times more image information to create each pixel, recording more detail and colour from a scene than ever before. Processing speed is also six times faster compared to the previous processor, efficiently managing the increase in scene information and simultaneously reducing the appearance of image noise by up to 75%.

DIGIC 5 Is used in the Canon EOS 650D/Rebel T4i/Kiss X6 (announced June 8, 2012 and available later that month)_."


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## briansquibb (Jun 27, 2012)

whatta said:


> it really looks like the same 3 years old sensor from the 7d..
> 
> basically what does the digic5 do which digic4 could not?
> 
> ...



If I read that correctly it is saying that it used the Digic 5 for NR?

If true then surely that NR could be achieved in pp??


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## dlleno (Jun 27, 2012)

briansquibb said:



> whatta said:
> 
> 
> > it really looks like the same 3 years old sensor from the 7d..
> ...



yea I'd say the weight of evidence points to Digic5 being used for in-camera jpg

Its hard to parse through the marketing language to divine the technical capabilities of the sensor itself. 
On the optimistic side, the sensor is "new" in the sense that the MP count is different (lower) and brings phase detection AF capability not present in the 7D sensor. 

On the other hand, the "new" sensor could be heavily leveraged, "essentially" the same as the 7D sensor in terms of inherent noise, or even the same exact sensor technology only modified for phase detection capability. until we get some real-world test analysis of the RAW files, we won't know for sure, but it appears (to me anyway) that the weight of evidence favors this (latter) explanation. I note that if Canon had made some incremental improvement in sensor noise performance, for example, the marketing language would have been different. 

It would be quite a stretch, imho, for Canon to have developed a low-noise sensor technology here and just not expose it or tell us about it, to avoid stealing thunder from the 7D2, for example. More likely, imho, Canon is advancing their phase detection AF capability here in the APS-C world, not noise/ISO/IQ capability. perhaps we will see a higher IQ APS-C sensor with phase detection combined in the 7D2.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 6, 2012)

It's not a new idea, that the most expensive DSLRs have the best image quality...

A lot of rebel users wanting 1D sensor performance...


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## briansquibb (Jul 6, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> It's not a new idea, that the most expensive DSLRs have the best image quality...
> 
> A lot of rebel users wanting 1D sensor performance...



... 1D mk1 it is then .... ;D ;D ;D


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 6, 2012)

> ... 1D mk1 it is then .... ;D ;D ;D



My sides. I was talking in terms of series, as well you know.

So a 1DX or a 650D, they've both got 18MP?....


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## briansquibb (Jul 6, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> > ... 1D mk1 it is then .... ;D ;D ;D
> 
> 
> 
> ...



8) 8) 8)


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