# Crystal Ball Gazing on Prices



## rjbray01 (Dec 22, 2021)

I have been waiting and hoping for a full frame camera from Canon with an electronic view finder whose refresh rate and resolution/size compete with my 5D mark 4.

At present, based on the reviews I've read it seems that the only cameras in the frame are the R5 and R3.

However, those are simply out of my price range.

For me, an R6/R is out of the question as it is a retrograde step as far as what I see through the viewfinder is concerned.

Does anyone have a view on how long its likely to be until we see such a body which can match the current 5D4 price ? 

In truth I don't really care about any of the latest fancy features like eye-detect. 

Any full frame mirrorless which can match my 5Div specs but allows me to view and review images through the viewfinder with equal clarify would be a great upgrade for me.

Somehow I feel its going to be many years from now ... 

Any thoughts ?


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## Czardoom (Dec 22, 2021)

Perhaps you can clarify exactly what you need in your EVF. You seem to be asking the EVF to be the same as the OVF of your 5D4, which, of course, can't happen. I have an R6 which has a very fine EVF, so not sure what you mean when you say it is a retrograde step as far as the viewfinder is concerned.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 22, 2021)

rjbray01 said:


> For me, an R6/R is out of the question as it is a retrograde step as far as what I see through the viewfinder is concerned
> 
> Any full frame mirrorless which can match my 5Div specs but allows me to view *and review images through the viewfinder with equal clarify would be a great upgrade for me.*


The R6 is a step back from your 5DIV. A viewfinder in which you can review images would be a great upgrade.

I’m confused. Or possibly you’re confused.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 23, 2021)

Have you seen the price of ground beef lately? Chicken? Seafood? 

I see inflation for many months in my crystal ball.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 23, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Have you seen the price of ground beef lately? Chicken? Seafood?
> 
> I see inflation for many months in my crystal ball.


And yet most people’s mortgages are the lowest they have ever been and the price of gas is falling as fast as it went up.


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## Antono Refa (Dec 23, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> And yet most people’s mortgages are the lowest they have ever been and the price of gas is falling as fast as it went up.


Short term, the media reports of shortages in electronics, graphics adapters seem to suffer the most, and transportations problems. Lenses being electronic products that need to be transported from Japan, seems reasonable to me prices would stay high.

Long term, camera market is shrinking, which means costs of R&D and manufacturing facilities will be split among fewer items. Seems this will support prices remaining high.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 23, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> Short term, the media reports of shortages in electronics, graphics adapters seem to suffer the most, and transportations problems. Lenses being electronic products that need to be transported from Japan, seems reasonable to me prices would stay high.
> 
> Long term, camera market is shrinking, which means costs of R&D and manufacturing facilities will be split among fewer items. Seems this will support prices remaining high.


I was replying to a comment about inflation in general that mentioned “Chicken, seafood and ground beef” specifically, not camera lenses.

I don’t see inflation being as big a factor as a shrinking market and supply issues when talking specifically about camera lenses.


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## Joules (Dec 23, 2021)

If the R5's viewfinder is already satisfactory for you, I don't think you'll have to wait all that long.

As VR use cases become more widespread and more smartphones embrace high refresh rate display technology, I can see costs for sourcing related components such as EVF displays dropping.

Also, Canon seems to have pushed their video processing pipeline quite far, allowing full sensor read out and downsampling parallel to AF and exposure control routines. I could see some of that initial investment that went into getting so far in order to beat the competition to 8K video resulting in some savings for lower end models further down the line.

Eventually Canon will probably arrive at a few components they can recycle between models like they loved to do with sensors and AF systems in the past. Right now all the RF bodies have slightly different EVF configurations, but once they have one that they lile enough to share between multiple models, that should also bring down the cost.

On another node, have you actually used an R6 EVF or just read that it is inferior to the R5 and decided it isn't up to your standards based on that alone?


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## rjbray01 (Dec 23, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> The R6 is a step back from your 5DIV. A viewfinder in which you can review images would be a great upgrade.
> 
> I’m confused. Or possibly you’re confused.


You seem to be confused as to what is the subject and what is the object of what I am saying - perhaps it's my poor command of English grammar rules 

I was intending to say that by changing my camera to a better camera - i.e. upgrading my equipment - the ability to review pictures in the viewfinder would be a great upgrade. 

Since the R6 has an inferior viewfinder that however would not be a good upgrade to my equipment

But replacement of my 5Div with an R5 would be a good upgrade because the viewfinder is on par with my 5Div


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## rjbray01 (Dec 23, 2021)

Joules said:


> If the R5's viewfinder is already satisfactory for you, I don't think you'll have to wait all that long.
> 
> As VR use cases become more widespread and more smartphones embrace high refresh rate display technology, I can see costs for sourcing related components such as EVF displays dropping.
> 
> ...


Thank you - that's helpful

I have used the viewfinder on the old M5 which, compared to the R6 is 80% resolution in the horizontal and 80% the resolution in the vertical directions.

I sold the M5 because I couldn't live with the viewfinder ... So I'm very reluctant to spend a large sum on an R6 where the viewfinder isn't a whole lot better.

I've read numerous reviews suggesting that with the R5 canon have finally produced a viewfinder which is no longer a retrograde step and I'm taking it on faith that these are true

What you say about standardized components makes good sense though - the sooner we have a "standard" viewfinder which is as good as optical the better !


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## koenkooi (Dec 23, 2021)

rjbray01 said:


> [..]I sold the M5 because I couldn't live with the viewfinder ... So I'm very reluctant to spend a large sum on an R6 where the viewfinder isn't a whole lot better.[..]


I had both the M50 and the RP, which have the same exact display in the viewfinder. I couldn't stand the one in the M50, but I loved the one in the RP. What made the difference were the optics in front of it. The M50 EVF seemed small and when viewing it just *slightly* off-axis it would turn into a distorted mess. The RP EVF felt *a lot* larger and wasn't affected by off-axis viewing.
So take optics in consideration before going all spec-geeking on the resolution.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 23, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> I had both the M50 and the RP, which have the same exact display in the viewfinder. I couldn't stand the one in the M50, but I loved the one in the RP. What made the difference were the optics in front of it. The M50 EVF seemed small and when viewing it just *slightly* off-axis it would turn into a distorted mess. The RP EVF felt *a lot* larger and wasn't affected by off-axis viewing.
> So that optics in consideration before going all spec-geeking on the resolution.


I saw exactly the same comment about the FujiFilm GFX 100S last night, it ‘only’ has a 3.6 million dot viewfinder but the viewing experience easily outstrips higher resolutions in other bodies. The reviewer suggested the same thing, the glass between the LCD and the eye is a critical element (see what I did there) that doesn’t come across in spec sheets.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 23, 2021)

Perhaps rent an R6 and see for yourself?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 23, 2021)

If I recall right, the R6 came out with a lower resolution viewfinder than my EOS R. The issue about EVF's, however, is not so much resolution as it is the quality of the image and the refresh rate. Being able to see the viewfinder when outside in bright light, color, contrast, and refresh rate are more important than a slight difference in resolution. 

I've never used a R6 but EVF image on my R5 is much better than my EOS R. Neither can match the OVF of the 5D MK IV but the R5 is very usable. 

I'd try one and see. It does not look like prices of a EOS R5 will be dropping soon. The Pandemic has increased the cost of most components in a camera so just holding the price is probably cutting margins.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 24, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> And yet most people’s mortgages are the lowest they have ever been and the price of gas is falling as fast as it went up.


Whistling in the dark?






U.S. Inflation-Adjusted Spending Stagnates as Prices Surge


(Bloomberg) — U.S. consumer spending, adjusted for inflation, stagnated in November as the fastest price gains in nearly four decades eroded purchasing power.




financialpost.com













Texas refinery blast could help push gas prices above $4 a gallon


The blast at a Texas oil refinery early Thursday will probably push already high gasoline prices even higher — although not immediately.




www.cnn.com


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## privatebydesign (Dec 24, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> Whistling in the dark?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe, but my gas bill has come down, my phone bill has halved (through competition), my medical insurance has gone up a few percent (less than normal), anybody with a variable rate mortgage has lower mortgage payments...

I am just a single data point I understand that and maybe my spending is atypical, but I am not feeling the swings of profitability and loss that is being promulgated.


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## Del Paso (Dec 24, 2021)

My major EOS R criticism is about the EVF. I just dislike it, even though I really enjoy the camera. But its EVF is far inferior to the 5 DIV's OVF.
But what other forum members just have said: the R5's EVF is a game changer, it can easily stand a comparison with OVFs, plus the EVF's related advantages like sensor-focusing.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 24, 2021)

Del Paso said:


> My major EOS R criticism is about the EVF. I just dislike it, even though I really enjoy the camera. But its EVF is far inferior to the 5 DIV's OVF.
> But what other forum members just have said: the R5's EVF is a game changer, it can easily stand a comparison with OVFs, plus the EVF's related advantages like sensor-focusing.


I definitely like the R5 and R6's EVFs better than an OVF. I didn't like the R's overall performance, but to me its EVF made me see how much easier consistently correct exposures are with mirrorless. 

EVF's are great! Just this morning, 30 minutes after sunrise, I could take pictures of shore-birds without worrying about being blinded by the glare on the wet sand. 

And it lets me decide between Exposure Simulation and what seems like night vision in lowlight. It allows me to instantly review a shot through the EVF in the harshest of light. And it shows with a very close approximation to true WYSIWYG my exposure, both for fine tuning AND for not blasting away with the wrong settings, as I used to occasionally (ok, sometimes more than occasionally) forget to change settings when light changed dramatically. It gives me a great histogram, fairly unobtrusive in most framing.

And as another member on another forum demonstrated, the EVF can be tweaked to show very close to HDR shadow recovery, and, more importantly to be fine-tuned for various vision-needs and exposure scenarios. Takes a little work, but this can be accomplished readily with Canon's Picture Style Editor. 

Yes, there are the inevitable compromises of photography, such as battery life. Maybe a few people are sensitive to electronic screens, and that's hard.

Suggesting how to improve the EVF is important, and they will get better. Lamenting its replacement of the OVF is, in my opinion, misunderstanding the advantages of mirrorless cameras.


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