# Canon Announces the EOS 77D



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 15, 2017)

```
<p><em>New DSLR Additions are Joined by New Compact EF-S Lens and Canon’s First-Ever Remote Utilizing Bluetooth® Technology<span class="green"><sup>3</sup></span></em></p>
<p><strong>MELVILLE, N.Y., February 14, 2017 –</strong> Developed and designed to meet the varying needs of entry-level and advanced amateur photographers, Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced two new additions to the celebrated EOS system – the EOS Rebel T7i DSLR camera, which adds to the popular Rebel series of entry-level DSLR cameras, and the EOS 77D DLSR camera, which represents a new category of cameras for advanced amateur photographers. Canon also introduced today the new EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens and Wireless Remote Control BR-E1, as well as added functionality for the Canon Connect Station CS100. “In what marks the 30th year since the introduction of the Canon EOS System, the announcement today of these two new DSLR cameras exhibits Canon’s commitment to providing our customers with the tools they need to grow their passion for capturing the best possible pictures of the moments in time that mean the most to them, or inspire them to one day shoot professionally,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO, Canon U.S.A.</p>

		<style type='text/css'>
			#gallery-1 {
				margin: auto;
			}
			#gallery-1 .gallery-item {
				float: left;
				margin-top: 10px;
				text-align: center;
				width: 25%;
			}
			#gallery-1 img {
				border: 2px solid #cfcfcf;
			}
			#gallery-1 .gallery-caption {
				margin-left: 0;
			}
			/* see gallery_shortcode() in wp-includes/media.php */
		</style>
		<div id='gallery-1' class='gallery galleryid-28347 gallery-columns-4 gallery-size-thumbnail'><dl class='gallery-item'>
			<dt class='gallery-icon landscape'>
				<a href='http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/3635103391.jpg'><img width="168" height="168" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/3635103391-168x168.jpg" class="attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail" alt="" /></a>
			</dt></dl><dl class='gallery-item'>
			<dt class='gallery-icon landscape'>
				<a href='http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/5896807167.jpg'><img width="168" height="168" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/5896807167-168x168.jpg" class="attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail" alt="" /></a>
			</dt></dl><dl class='gallery-item'>
			<dt class='gallery-icon landscape'>
				<a href='http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/7225377023.jpg'><img width="168" height="168" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/7225377023-168x168.jpg" class="attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail" alt="" /></a>
			</dt></dl><dl class='gallery-item'>
			<dt class='gallery-icon landscape'>
				<a href='http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/7397258417.jpg'><img width="168" height="168" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/7397258417-168x168.jpg" class="attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail" alt="" /></a>
			</dt></dl><br style="clear: both" />
		</div>

<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>Focused on Innovation</strong></p>
<p>The EOS Rebel T7i and EOS 77D both feature an optical viewfinder with a 45-point All Cross-type AF system<sup class="green">*</sup> to help enable more precise focusing. In live view mode, both cameras utilize Canon’s Dual Pixel CMOS AF to deliver the world’s fastest AF focusing speed of 0.03 seconds.<sup class="green">1</sup> This technical achievement allows users to find their subject, focus accurately, and capture the shot more quickly than ever before. Both models also have built-in Wi-Fi®<sup class="green">2</sup>, NFC<sup class="green">3</sup> and Bluetooth®<sup class="green">4</sup> technology for easy transfer of images.</p>
<p>In addition to the focusing enhancements, common features of the EOS Rebel T7i and EOS 77D cameras include:</p>
<ul>
<li>Optical Viewfinder with a 45-point All Cross-type AF System<span class="green">*</span></li>
<li>Fast and accurate Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Phase-detection</li>
<li>24.2 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) Sensor</li>
<li>DIGIC 7 Image Processor, ISO 100–25600</li>
<li>Built-in Wi-Fi®<span class="green"><sup>2</sup></span>, NFC<span class="green"><sup>3</sup></span> and Bluetooth®<span class="green"><sup>4</sup></span> technology</li>
<li>Vari-angle Touch Screen, 3.0-inch LCD</li>
<li>Movie Electronic IS</li>
<li>HDR Movie & Time-Lapse Movie</li>
<li>High-speed Continuous Shooting at up to 6.0 frames per second (fps)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EOS Rebel T7i Camera</strong></p>
<p>The EOS Rebel T7i is the first camera in the EOS Rebel series with a 45-point, all cross-type AF system<span class="green">*</span> within the Optical Viewfinder. It is also the first in the series with Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Phase-detection and the first with a DIGIC 7 Image Processor. Creative filters for both still images and video will allow users to customize the look and feel of their content in new and imaginative ways.</p>
<p>When designing the new EOS Rebel T7i, Canon took into consideration feedback from entry-level photographers who expressed interest in learning to go beyond the program mode of a DSLR camera. Users will now be able to see on-screen how switching modes on the mode dial or tweaking settings can alter the image they are about to capture, guiding photographers on their way to capturing more compelling images, such as ones with a shallower depth-of-field or being able to give moving-subjects a frozen or flowing look.</p>
<p>The Canon EOS Rebel T7i is scheduled to be available in April 2017 for an estimated retail price $749.99<span class="green">**</span> for the body only, $899.99<span class="green">**</span> with the new EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens and $1,299.00<span class="green">**</span> with the EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens respectively. For more information please visit, usa.canon.com/eosrebelt7i.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 77D Camera</strong></p>
<p>For advanced amateur photographers looking to expand their knowledge and experience with DSLR cameras, Canon’s new EOS 77D is the ideal next step camera for them. The EOS 77D represents a new category of advanced amateur EOS cameras, a step above the Rebel series. Users of the EOS 77D DSLR camera will benefit from features like the 7650-pixel RBG+IR Metering Sensor, similar to the one found in the EOS 80D camera and Anti-Flicker shooting mode to help combat the on-and-off repetitive flickering from artificial lights found in high-school gyms or auditoriums. The EOS 77D also features a top LCD panel and quick control dial for photographers who desire quicker and easier access to changing and controlling settings on the camera.</p>
<p>The Canon EOS 77D is scheduled to be available in April 2017 for an estimated retail price $899.99<span class="green">**</span> for the body only, $1,049.00<span class="green">**</span> with the new EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens and $1,499.00<span class="green">**</span> with the EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens respectively. For more information please visit, <a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/eos77d" target="_blank">usa.canon.com/eos77d</a>.</p>
<p><strong>EF-S Lens and Remote Accessory Utilizing Bluetooth® Technology</strong></p>
<p>The new Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens is nearly 20 percent smaller than the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens, without sacrificing image quality. Features of the lens include:</p>
<ul>
<li>Compact-size, Standard Zoom Lens with High Image Quality</li>
<li>Lead Screw-type STM</li>
<li>Image Stabilization at up to 4<span class="green"><sup>5</sup></span> Stops of Shake Correction</li>
<li>Stylish Design</li>
</ul>
<p>The Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens is scheduled to be available in early April 2017 for an estimated retail price of $249.99<span class="green">**</span>. For more information please visit, <a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/efs1855stm" target="_blank">usa.canon.com/efs1855stm</a>.</p>
<p>In addition, Canon is introducing it’s first-ever remote utilizing Bluetooth® technology3, the Wireless Remote Control BR-E1. This new remote allows photographers to capture images from within a 16-foot radius of the camera. This camera accessory is useful for photographers who are looking to capture images remotely in situations where there could be issues with signal reception or line-of-sight to the camera. The Canon Wireless Remote Control BR-E1 will be compatible with both the EOS Rebel T7i and EOS 77D cameras. The Canon BR-E1 is schedule to be available in April 2017 for an estimated retail price of $50.00<span class="green">**</span>.</p>
<p><strong>CS100 Firmware Update</strong>

Both the EOS Rebel T7i and EOS 77D cameras are compatible with the Canon Connect Station CS100 device, a go-to-photo and video hub that allows family and friends a way to quickly and easily store, manage view and share unforgettable memorable moment’s wirelessly<span class="green"><sup>6</sup></span>. Canon is also announcing today a firmware update to the Canon Connect Station CS100 device and mobile application. The firmware update includes the following improvements:</p>
<ul>
<li>Compatibility for select Canon and non-Canon cameras, with a wider range of supported file formats<span class="green"><sup>7</sup></span></li>
<li>Support for video playback of computer-edited movies<span class="green"><sup>8</sup></span></li>
<li>Improved smartphone connectivity and compatibility</li>
</ul>
<p>For more information about the Canon Connect Station firmware update, please visit <a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/cs100mobile" target="_blank">usa.canon.com/cs100mobile</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Preorder the Canon EOS 77D</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EOS 77D Body: <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1318281-REG/canon_eos_77d_dslr_camera.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="https://mpex.com/canon-eos-77d-dslr-camera-body-only.html?acc=3">MPEX</a> | <strong><a href="http://adorama.evyy.net/c/60085/51926/1036?u=https://www.adorama.com/ICA77D.html?kbid=64393">Adorama</a></strong> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2kIo1eg">Amazon</a></li>
<li>Canon EOS 77D w/18-55 IS STM: <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1318765-REG/canon_1892c016_eos_77d_dslr_camera.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="https://mpex.com/canon-eos-77d-dslr-camera-with-18-55mm-lens.html?acc=3">MPEX</a> | <a href="http://adorama.evyy.net/c/60085/51926/1036?u=https://www.adorama.com/ICA77DK.html?kbid=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2kIaWBw">Amazon</a></li>
<li>Canon EOS 77D w/18-135 IS STM: <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1318767-REG/canon_1892c002_eos_77d_dslr_camera.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="https://mpex.com/canon-eos-77d-dslr-camera-with-18-135mm-lens.html?acc=3">MPEX</a> | <a href="http://adorama.evyy.net/c/60085/51926/1036?u=https://www.adorama.com/ICA77DK1.html?kbid=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2kIo1eg">Amazon</a></li>
</ul>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


----------



## Chaitanya (Feb 15, 2017)

So atleast on this camera Canon has kept the naming scheme same across the globe. 
Also this camera still uses that tiny tunnelly pentamirror viewfinder, no USB type-C, crappy 1080p video with no 4k, still ancient UHS-I spec SD Slot, tiny ass battery.


----------



## Mancubus (Feb 15, 2017)

From the specs, it looks like to me an 80D that is 1fps slower.


----------



## Tangent (Feb 15, 2017)

afma? Not expecting it but would like to be pleasantly surprised. If anyone know for sure please let us know!


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 15, 2017)

This statement caught my eye, I need to find note 1 to see what the gotcha is.

both cameras utilize Canon’s Dual Pixel CMOS AF to deliver the world’s fastest AF focusing speed of 0.03 seconds.1 

Is this true for the 80D? I did not follow the hype for it closely and would have missed it. Speeds this fast make the Live View mode into a very practical everyday mode for those who want large sensor mirrorless. Go to live mode and you essentially have mirrorless that works with all ef-s and EF lenses, or use it as a DSLR where you have a optical viewfinder, even though its not pentaprism.


Revised:

I found it:

1 Among all the interchangeable lens digital cameras incorporating the APS-C size image sensors with phase-difference detection AF on the image plane As of February 14th, 2017 (Researched by Canon). Calculated based on the resulting AF speed measured according to the CIPA guidelines. (Varies depending on the shooting conditions and the lenses used.) Internal measurement method. [Measurement conditions] Focusing brightness: EV 12 (room temperature, ISO 100) Shooting mode: M Lens used: EF-S18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM (at focal length of 55mm) Live View shooting AF method: Live 1-point AF (with Center AF point) AF operation: One-Shot AF


----------



## Chaitanya (Feb 15, 2017)

Tangent said:


> afma? Not expecting it but would like to be pleasantly surprised. If anyone know for sure please let us know!


no afma(wasnt expecting this feature) but wierdly cheaper Eos m6 has got user customisable c1,c2 modes while this camera(in order to protect 80d) doesnt have custom mode memory.


----------



## hubie (Feb 15, 2017)

Strangely enough I have never found the need to use a custom mode, and I don't consider myself an amazeur anymore. To be honest, as Av just matches all my needs, I never even tried to fiddle about custom modes either....


----------



## dufflover (Feb 15, 2017)

Mancubus said:


> From the specs, it looks like to me an 80D that is 1fps slower.



These announcement notice type specs never tell enough of the story. Has to end up in reviewer's hands to confirm things which I've never seen mentioned:
- pentamirror vs prism (esp given this form factor)
- buffer depth (60D is a perfect example of fps being jack all if it's slow flush)
- AFMA
- Focus modes (e.g. AF point expansion?)
probably much more ...


----------



## whothafunk (Feb 15, 2017)

is this a typo or am I not understanding something?


----------



## traveller (Feb 15, 2017)

From the specifications this looks like a great camera, let down by a poor viewfinder (I don't do video, therefore I reserve judgment). Nevertheless it should achieve its desired goal, namely to tempt those considering a "Rebel" to up-buy and to allow a salesman1 to up-sell anyone considering a 77D to an 80D simply by allowing the purchaser to look through the viewfinder. Actually, I'm not 100% convinced that the 80D viewfinder is good enough to be _immediately_ noticeable as better to the _uninitiated_; 7D series: maybe, fullframe: definitely... Viewfinders are one of the least appreciated specifications for the first time camera buyer and yet are your primary photographic interface. 

[1Assuming anyone still goes to look at a camera before they purchase, or should If there are any high street shops left to get a demo at, before purchasing online ]


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 15, 2017)

whothafunk said:


> is this a typo or am I not understanding something?


Its 4 stops, the five was a reference to a foot note, and managed to get changed to the same sized font as the rest. That happened to me when I copied some text with the footnote in it as well.

Here is is:

"The new Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens is nearly 20 percent smaller than the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens, without sacrificing image quality. Features of the lens include: 
Compact-size, Standard Zoom Lens with High Image Quality
Lead Screw-type STM
Image Stabilization at up to 45 Stops of Shake Correction
Stylish Design"
Here is footnote 5
"5 Based on CIPA (Camera & Imaging Products Association) standards. Testing performed using the EOS 7D Mark II digital SLR camera at a focal length of 55mm, 35mm-equivalent 88mm. The number of stops may vary based on the camera model used."


----------



## lw (Feb 15, 2017)

Tangent said:


> afma? Not expecting it but would like to be pleasantly surprised. If anyone know for sure please let us know!



The 80D/70D specs are explicit in listing AF Microadjustment as a feature.

The 77D spec make no mention of AFMA


----------



## Alex_M (Feb 15, 2017)

sounds like a strong use case for USB dock compatible lenses (Tamron, Sigma). AFMA adjustment in lens firmware compensate for the absence of in camera AFMA option.



lw said:


> The 77D spec make no mention of AFMA


----------



## IglooEater (Feb 15, 2017)

whothafunk said:


> is this a typo or am I not understanding something?



It means that if you can typically handhold for a 1/50 of a second, then with this IS on you'll be able to handhold for an exposure as long as 17.8 million years.

Actually, it got me too, as it was displayed as the number 45 on my phone until I clicked to see comments.


----------



## goldenhusky (Feb 15, 2017)

Anyone know if the Canon EVF-DC2 tilt up like its predecessor?


----------



## kphoto99 (Feb 15, 2017)

By not including AFMA Canon has simply placed this camera as a Rebel without calling it a Rebel.

I like how Canon is calling USB 2.0 high speed ;D


----------



## PeterT (Feb 15, 2017)

kphoto99 said:


> By not including AFMA Canon has simply placed this camera as a Rebel without calling it a Rebel.



Yes, I totally agree.
I am very disappointed. I hoped that one of the reasons why they promoted its name from Rebel to xxD was the the inclusion of AFMA. All other features are just right for me, but no AFMA is a show stopper. While the size and weight (and partly the price) of 80D is another show stopper.
So I found no reason to upgrade and I a keep taking pictures with my old 450D and considering jumping into the m43 system.


----------



## kphoto99 (Feb 15, 2017)

One more thing that screams Rebel is the 1/4000 max shutter speed.


----------



## Sharlin (Feb 15, 2017)

kphoto99 said:


> I like how Canon is calling USB 2.0 high speed ;D



Well, they are technically correct (the best kind of correct). "High speed" is the official brand designation of USB 2.0; USB 3.0 is called "Super speed".


----------



## ritholtz (Feb 15, 2017)

PeterT said:


> kphoto99 said:
> 
> 
> > By not including AFMA Canon has simply placed this camera as a Rebel without calling it a Rebel.
> ...


xxd line is bulky compared to rebels. 77d looks good except for view finder and no MFA. If it has all these features, i will prefer rebel to using M with adapters. Canon never going to include these features into rebel unless they discontinue xxd series.


----------



## C-A430 (Feb 15, 2017)

ritholtz said:


> PeterT said:
> 
> 
> > kphoto99 said:
> ...



If you replace 77Ds pentamirror with pentaprism, add bigger and better sealed body, bigger battery and AFMA you get camera that is nearly identical to 80D.

So I understand your statement as "Canon will never call successor to 80D - a Rebel". Whether it will be called Canon EOS 90D or Canon EOS Rebel 90D is not relevant. What is relevant is when will price of 80D drop from 1099€ body-only to 1099€ with a 18-135 STM? Since 77D is priced so close to 80D probably not soon.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Feb 15, 2017)

So the 760D becomes the 77D with the addition of Digic 7, 45 point AF, 5 axis in body stabilization, 6fps, 0.03 fastest focusing (1AF point), 7,560 RGB-IR metering, dual pixel AF & HDR movie. 

In the UK the body only 760D is 579.00 UK pound, the 77D is 829.00 and the 80D 999.00. That's a big just for the 77D to get the camera to where Nikon have been on spec. for some time. 

I can see why Canon have moved the 760D up to the 77D but it also makes the 6D at 1,449.00 now poor value for money 20.2 MP, 11AF points, 4.5fps, 97% viewfinder, Digic 5+, 63 zone dual layer spc, 180 sync speed and only one cross type AF point it really is the granddad of the line-up.


----------



## hubie (Feb 15, 2017)

C-A430 said:


> ritholtz said:
> 
> 
> > PeterT said:
> ...



Lol. No 1/8000 shutter, no 1/3 steps in Shutterspeed and ISO, may be differences in AF points, even if number is euqal, 6 fps vs 7 fps, buffer size, back interface (wheel etc), jpg/raw quality/options... you just want to put it the way you would like to see it. ^^


----------



## Tugela (Feb 15, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Tangent said:
> 
> 
> > afma? Not expecting it but would like to be pleasantly surprised. If anyone know for sure please let us know!
> ...



The most recent Sony focussing systems do it in 0.05s. That is not significantly different from 0.03s at a practical level, so the DPAF is not that much of an advantage as people make out.


----------



## dufflover (Feb 16, 2017)

They managed to have many "Rebel-like" qualities in the 6D and got away with it pretty well ... same thing here (I don't agree with it).

"Luckily" for us as CR people we check actual specs and reviews rather than just go off name, although it does increase that cynicism meter.

Guess just have to wait for hands-on reviews for the rest of it. I like Imaging Resources performance tests when it comes to the buffer testing.


----------



## MintChocs (Feb 16, 2017)

What are the main differences between the 80D and 77D?


----------



## stochasticmotions (Feb 16, 2017)

MintChocs said:


> What are the main differences between the 80D and 77D?



Good question! I would like to see a side by side spec comparison, it seems like virtually the same camera.


----------



## Sharlin (Feb 16, 2017)

stochasticmotions said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > What are the main differences between the 80D and 77D?
> ...



The 80D...


is bigger and heavier
has a larger and brighter OVF with 100% coverage
has a larger, longer-lasting battery
has weather sealing and probably a sturdier construction
has a rated shutter durability
has 1/8000s shutter speed
has 1/250s flash sync speed
has C1 and C2 modes
has a separate B mode in the mode dial
has a Kelvin white balance setting
has more top buttons
has more customisable buttons
has a higher bitrate ALL-I 1080p30 video format
has a 1fps faster burst speed
has OVF silent shutter modes
has AF manual adjustment
has a headphone jack

I might update my 70D-80D-7D2 comparison matrix to include the 77D when I get some spare time.


----------



## C-A430 (Feb 16, 2017)

hubie said:


> C-A430 said:
> 
> 
> > ritholtz said:
> ...



That my point - they would be nearly identical. If they replace pentamirror with pentaprism they will increase size, weight and price. Will they leave such camera without 80D sealing? No.

No camera maker ever offered so much choice in such a narrow price range as Canon is now with 750D/800D/77D/80D, yet there are people looking for something better that 77D, but smaller than 80D. If they JUST made THAT one, I buy 10, but like this, I wont buy at all. Bollocks!


----------



## PeterT (Feb 16, 2017)

C-A430 said:


> ... yet there are people looking for something better that 77D, but smaller than 80D. If they JUST made THAT one, I buy 10, but like this, I wont buy at all. Bollocks!



I am not sure (after too many embedded quotes) what exactly is THAT one.

For me (as I already wrote), THAT one would be the 77D plus AFMA. I do not need anything else from 80D (and they could even strip the wireless gimmicks like WiFi and NFC).

I agree that smaller body means smaller OVF and smaller battery which means less power for quicker shutter and it means lower maximum shutter speed and lower maximum FPS. 

But in current situation I will not buy 77D because it has no AFMA and I will not buy 80D because it is too big and heavy.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 16, 2017)

PeterT said:


> C-A430 said:
> 
> 
> > ... yet there are people looking for something better that 77D, but smaller than 80D. If they JUST made THAT one, I buy 10, but like this, I wont buy at all. Bollocks!
> ...



Its not the smaller OVF so much as its construction. The 77D uses a pentamirror, the 80D uses a more expensive, brighter, and all around better pentaprism.


Here is the info you have been looking for. The 80D is the best deal by far right now.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=20042


----------



## Talys (Feb 16, 2017)

I really like the 77D, but at the moment the pricing doesn't make sense. MSRP, they are very close in price because of the current Instant Rebate on the 80D. But that doesn't even tell the whole picture, because street price, body only, 80D is sub-$900 USD (for example, Amazon with fulfillment via Prime, which gives you free shipping and hassle-free 30 day return). And throw in a little bit more, and you can get a nice bundle with surprisingly useful extras.

There is almost nothing on it that's better than the 80D -- the Bluetooth is kind of cool, and I guess there's the DSLR-newb Guide UI, which some people have said is touch-friendly and cool, but I don't think either is a compelling reason to choose the camera. On the other hand the 80D is superior in a lot of things that often matter to people who buy midrange DSLR or semi-pro APS-C, like weather seal, pentaprism, battery life, and convenience features like more/better buttons, C1/C2. 

The battery I think is a massively understated advantage of the 80D -- 80D uses LP-E6, which is a well-loved battery that's shared by many Canon cameras AND that you can get cheap third party copies of for the price of lunch at Starbucks. The 77D uses the same battery as the t6i/t6s, the LP-E17, which only has non-decoded batteries. That means either not knowing how much juice is left in spares, or paying $60 a battery for Canon originals.

So, just 2 spare batteries, and you're looking at an extra $100. If you have a grip plus 4 batteries (2 sets), that's a whopping $200 difference. And 3rd party LP-E6 batteries have gotten really good, as good as the original Canon ones.

The real winner in this round, I think, is the T7i. It's a massive improvement and an awesome hobbyist camera, a market where most of the 80D features are just not that important.

Keep in mind that I'd have a different opinion if it weren't for the current pricing strata. at MSRP $1200 versus MSRP $900, the 77D is a great choice. But at street price $880 vs $900 for the brand-new 70D, it's just a no brainer, IMHO.

I suppose the other argument would be for the new lens kit, but personally, I have zero interest in another 18-55 range lens, even if it's cheap and a little smaller. I'm not really sure there are that many people who want a $1000-range camera who don't have a kit 18-55 from a previous camera, or who have invested in a far superior alternative already (for me, that's the 17-55 2.8) . 

I guess there could be unmentioned extras that would change the calculus too, for instance, really awesome wifi to desktop speeds for RAW shooting, but you'd think they'd advertise that if it were so.


----------



## Sharlin (Feb 16, 2017)

Talys said:


> I really like the 77D, but at the moment the pricing doesn't make sense. MSRP, they are very close in price because of the current Instant Rebate on the 80D. But that doesn't even tell the whole picture, because street price, body only, 80D is sub-$900 USD (for example, Amazon with fulfillment via Prime, which gives you free shipping and hassle-free 30 day return). And throw in a little bit more, and you can get a nice bundle with surprisingly useful extras.



Those figures (and the instant rebate) are of course only in the US. The street prices around here are around €900, €1000, and €1200 for the 800D, the 77D, and the 80D respectively (body only). The 80D price is probably not going to drop significantly very soon either.


----------



## PeterT (Feb 17, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its not the smaller OVF so much as its construction. The 77D uses a pentamirror, the 80D uses a more expensive, brighter, and all around better pentaprism.



I know that. But I prefer small size over the pentaprism. I only want the AF micro adjustments in a smaller body.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The 80D is the best deal by far right now.



Not for me. 80D is too big and heavy.


----------



## slclick (Feb 17, 2017)

PeterT said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Its not the smaller OVF so much as its construction. The 77D uses a pentamirror, the 80D uses a more expensive, brighter, and all around better pentaprism.
> ...



Funny, I've been considering one and I just gave one the looksie at the local shop and the one thing I came away with was..."It's too small and feels light/cheap" BUT, I do like the feature set. All in all, I'm happy cropping from my 5D3 instead of getting that extra bit of 'noisier' reach.


----------



## Talys (Feb 17, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > I really like the 77D, but at the moment the pricing doesn't make sense. MSRP, they are very close in price because of the current Instant Rebate on the 80D. But that doesn't even tell the whole picture, because street price, body only, 80D is sub-$900 USD (for example, Amazon with fulfillment via Prime, which gives you free shipping and hassle-free 30 day return). And throw in a little bit more, and you can get a nice bundle with surprisingly useful extras.
> ...



Amazon.de has 80D at €1064 -- 

https://www.amazon.de/Canon-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-AF-Kreuzsensoren-Bildprozessor/dp/B01C2XJVPC/ref=sr_1_1?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1487301559&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+80d

I'm actually in Canada, where the 77D is $1150, and the 80D is less than that (or comes with lots of bundled stuff). 


I don't think the 80D will drop either... I mean, the 77D surely will not, and there just isn't enough space between the 80d and 77d for much of a drop (on MSRP).


----------



## Sharlin (Feb 17, 2017)

Talys said:


> Amazon.de has 80D at €1064 --



Oh, that's certainly a nice price.


----------



## PeterT (Feb 17, 2017)

slclick said:


> PeterT said:
> 
> 
> > 80D is too big and heavy.
> ...



It's ok, we are different with different preferences.

The problem for me is that Canon just ignores preferences of people wanting a good camera in smaller body.
And even features that are purely software (which AF micro adjustments are, I believe), i.e. not dependent on the body size, are stripped from smaller bodies even if they paint "77D" on it. That's sad for me...


----------



## Sharlin (Feb 17, 2017)

PeterT said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > PeterT said:
> ...



They simply can't cater to every preference so they concentrate on the biggest target segments. Every single camera body is a compromise, and every single camera purchase is also a compromise.

Except that they did just release a model that definitely caters to the "small but advanced" crowd: the M5. It doesn't have AFMA though


----------



## C-A430 (Feb 17, 2017)

PeterT said:


> C-A430 said:
> 
> 
> > ... yet there are people looking for something better that 77D, but smaller than 80D. If they JUST made THAT one, I buy 10, but like this, I wont buy at all. Bollocks!
> ...



I wasn't talking about your case. I was saying that asking for 77D with pentaprism and AFMA from 80D and price, size and weight from 800D is trolling. Yes, Canon should have included AFMA at least in 77D, if not even in 800D, but it's not like neither of these camera suit his needs, and that one would perfectly.

As for your case, hundreds of improvements that 77D brings compared to 450D for you are not worth the upgrade, but AFMA would be? Strange.

If you wanted something smaller you would be thinking about M5 or M6. And if 450D is perfect size for you, 80D is good compromise - slightly larger than what you consider optimum (that should not be too big), while giving you better grip, bigger battery, larger and brighter viewfinder, weather sealing etc. + a LOT of upgrades 77D would bring over 450D. Besides its not like you chose light lenses. From your signature I would say you have a lot of lenses that would benefit from 80Ds' body weight. 

Do lenses you already own need auto-focus micro-adjustment? If they did I presume you would have switched to 70D years ago. If not why insist on smaller version of 80D? If 1 rarely used lenses needs it, just use the liveview when using that lens wide open.


----------



## -1 (Feb 18, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> So atleast on this camera Canon has kept the naming scheme same across the globe.


So the next one will be called 87D?


Chaitanya said:


> Also this camera still uses that tiny tunnelly pentamirror viewfinder


So the reason for me not getting the 300D is still there!


Chaitanya said:


> , no USB type-C, crappy 1080p video with no 4k, still ancient UHS-I spec SD Slot, tiny ass battery.


And no MFA, apparently!


----------



## Talys (Feb 18, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> They simply can't cater to every preference so they concentrate on the biggest target segments. Every single camera body is a compromise, and every single camera purchase is also a compromise.
> 
> Except that they did just release a model that definitely caters to the "small but advanced" crowd: the M5. It doesn't have AFMA though



Yeah, right? Plus, it's unrealistic to ask vendors or Canon to stock 6 DSLRs that are all around the same price just so that someone can have exactly the features they want in a matrix. Picking a body and brand of camera is usually about finding the compromise that suits a particular need or preference.

And anyways, the 80D isn't heavier because Canon thinks people who want more advanced models won't buy lighter cameras... it's heavier because there's a motorized mirror instead of springs, a big hunk of glass instead of a VF mirror, a bigger battery, and dirt/moisture seals. I get that people would like all that in a tiny form factor; I'm sure Canon would like to be able to fit all the goodies of a 1D in a M5 form factor too


----------



## aximrocks (Feb 19, 2017)

Talys said:


> I'm actually in Canada, where the 77D is $1150, and the 80D is less than that (or comes with lots of bundled stuff).



where? 

$1399 + tax everywhere

http://www.photoprice.ca/product/06044/Canon-EOS-80D-price.html


----------



## unfocused (Feb 19, 2017)

For all those who are comparing the price of the 77D to the 80D, keep this in mind: If the 77D causes customers to instead choose the 80D because the price/value of the 80D is better, is that poor marketing or marketing genius on Canon's part?

Does Canon care if anyone buys a 77D? No, what they care about is that someone is buying a Canon DSLR and if it's the slightly more expensive 80D, well that's all the better.


----------



## slclick (Feb 19, 2017)

What really amazes me is that there are a lot of people complaining about having more choices. 

SMH

Now, of course, they insist they are not the 'correct' choices but we all know that the mindset that Canon should make something with your unique personal spec list is bordering on narcissistic personality disorder.


----------



## goldenhusky (Feb 20, 2017)

The New UI on the 77D seems to be interesting. I guess it will be very helpful for beginners. I got a glimpse of the new UI on the "Canon 77D - Hands-On First Look (and comparisons to 80D)" video by digiDirect on youtube. Per that video the new UI can be disabled to go back to the traditional version we all are used to.


----------



## PeterT (Feb 20, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> They simply can't cater to every preference so they concentrate on the biggest target segments. Every single camera body is a compromise, and every single camera purchase is also a compromise.



Why "every preference"?
There is the Rebel line and there is the X0D line. The main characteristics of Rebels vs X0D is smaller and lighter body with all the consequences of that (no weather sealing, no prism, no more buttons and dials, smaller battery, slower speed,...). All this alone distinguishes the two lines well enough.
Now (already with the 760D) they created something in-between these two lines. And I see strong arguments that the only good solution for the in-between body is to opt for the Rebel body, but include everything from X0D that is not dependent (i.e. does not contribute) to the size and weight of X0D. Omitting any other feature (like the purely software based AFMA) for purely "marketing" reasons can trigger bad feeling (they want to swindle!) and move some current Canon customers towards other brands.



Sharlin said:


> Except that they did just release a model that definitely caters to the "small but advanced" crowd: the M5. It doesn't have AFMA though


Unfortunately it has much worse set of dedicated primes (any reasonably fast EF prime looks ridiculously long with that adapter). I will not consider it till they have a 15mm, 32mm IS and 55mm IS and 85mm IS all of them not darker than f/2.0.



Talys said:


> And anyways, the 80D isn't heavier because Canon thinks people who want more advanced models won't buy lighter cameras... it's heavier because there's a motorized mirror instead of springs, a big hunk of glass instead of a VF mirror, a bigger battery, and dirt/moisture seals. I get that people would like all that in a tiny form factor.


No, you do not get what do I want. I can live without all the things that you listed because I know that with them the camera would need to be bigger or heavier than I want it. From me the small size and weight is a priority over the listed goodies. But I want all the features of 80D that are not contributing to size and weight (especially AFMA).



unfocused said:


> If the 77D causes customers to instead choose the 80D because the price/value of the 80D is better, is that poor marketing or marketing genius on Canon's part?
> Does Canon care if anyone buys a 77D? No, what they care about is that someone is buying a Canon DSLR and if it's the slightly more expensive 80D, well that's all the better.


This marketing trick just does not work with me. 80D is too big, too heavy and quite expensive for me. So it is out my consideration (at least for next year or two while my current camera still works and there are not enough used ones on the market). Full stop.
I hoped for a Rebel sized camera with AFMA because AFMA does not depend on size. They did not do such a camera. So I will not buy it... and I will go on shooting with the gear I have and considering other brands.
So did they spend on R&D just to finally expel me (and people like me) from the Canon brand?


----------



## slclick (Feb 20, 2017)

PeterT said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > They simply can't cater to every preference so they concentrate on the biggest target segments. Every single camera body is a compromise, and every single camera purchase is also a compromise.
> ...



Wow. Just Wow. You speak as if this is a personal attack. I'm sorry you have been attacked. Oh and fallen for a marketing trick (called choices and options) Just wow.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Feb 20, 2017)

PeterT said:


> So did they spend on R&D just to finally expel me (and people like me) from the Canon brand?



Yes. Not 'people like you'. Just you. For Canon, this is personal. Some sort of corporate vendetta thing. I feel sorry for you that Canon is targeting you like this.


----------

