# Two full frame bodies or full frame and crop sensor?



## Ryan85 (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi, 
I currently shoot a 5diii. This year I started shooting my first paid shoots. I did 4 weddings, senior pictures and family portriats. I'll be doing the same over the next several years plus some sports, stock, wildlife and landscapes/fine art trying to make a career from photography. I enjoy doing weddings, portriats and really all types of photography. However my favorite is travel, wildlife and landscapes. So my question is I'm going to get a second body to shoot in case the 5diii fails or I want to use 2 bodies so I'm not switching lenses as much and I'm not sure if I should go with the 7dii or save for a second 5diii or possibly a high mp body hopefully released in the future. I love the 5diii it's just extremely spendy for a second one while I'm starting out and on a budget. I thought about the 6d but I really like having 2 card slots in case of a memory card failure and I prefer the layout of the 5diii more. I thought the 7dii would be nice for some extra reach but I'm not sure how it'd do shooting weddings and portriats compared to the 5diii. Also having a 24-70 on the ff and the 70-200 on the crop sensor might not be great for weddings in low light and loosing depth of field. So any advice and thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks you.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 24, 2014)

Since you can find a 5D MK III for about $2400, I'd go for it. The 7D is a good camera, but I'd go for a identical camera to what you have.


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## Ryan85 (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards that. 2400.00? Are we talking for a used, refurb, ebay, canon price watch or? I haven't seen them that low. I've always purchased my gear through b&h or the local best buy or camera shop in town. Do you feel confertable buying through the options I mentioned above buying gear?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 24, 2014)

Ryan85 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards that. 2400.00? Are we talking for a used, refurb, ebay, canon price watch or? I haven't seen them that low. I've always purchased my gear through b&h or the local best buy or camera shop in town. Do you feel confertable buying through the options I mentioned above buying gear?


 
I always buy from a reputable seller. B&H, Adorama, Hometown Dealers, etc. There are good dealers selling on ebay as well as bad ones. The Canon price watch deal is a referral to a authorized Canon Dealer, often one you would buy from in any event, so yes, I'd do that.

I bought my 5D MK III over two years ago on ebay from Adorama, I paid $2750 and got $50 ebay bucks that bought a spare battery, also from Adorama.

If you want a deal, signup at CPW, set your price, and they will send you a e-mail if or when the price drops. There will be a lot of very short special deals as the holidays approach, and dealers panic about getting caught with too much stock, or meeting their bills. I see it every year. 

Know what you want, and jump. There has already been a $200 off sale on the 7D MK II, for example.


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## Freddie (Nov 24, 2014)

*Canon Direct Online Store Refurbished Cameras and Lenses*

The price watch site for Canon Direct is here: http://www.canonpricewatch.com/canon-refurb-stock-tracker/

The Canon Direct Site for refurbished cameras is here: http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/cameras/refurbished-eos-digital-slr-cameras

The 5D Mark III is currently $2,719.20 but they have sales all the time with discounts up to 20% at times. That's how I bought my 5D Mark III many months ago for under $2400.

Use the price watch site for in-stock situations and sales summaries.
Fred


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## Don Haines (Nov 24, 2014)

Ryan85 said:


> Hi,
> I currently shoot a 5diii. This year I started shooting my first paid shoots. I did 4 weddings, senior pictures and family portriats. I'll be doing the same over the next several years plus some sports, stock, wildlife and landscapes/fine art trying to make a career from photography. I enjoy doing weddings, portriats and really all types of photography. However my favorite is travel, wildlife and landscapes. So my question is I'm going to get a second body to shoot in case the 5diii fails or I want to use 2 bodies so I'm not switching lenses as much and I'm not sure if I should go with the 7dii or save for a second 5diii or possibly a high mp body hopefully released in the future. I love the 5diii it's just extremely spendy for a second one while I'm starting out and on a budget. I thought about the 6d but I really like having 2 card slots in case of a memory card failure and I prefer the layout of the 5diii more. I thought the 7dii would be nice for some extra reach but I'm not sure how it'd do shooting weddings and portriats compared to the 5diii. Also having a 24-70 on the ff and the 70-200 on the crop sensor might not be great for weddings in low light and loosing depth of field. So any advice and thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks you.



I have a 7D2 and love it. It is a great camera and I do not regret getting it for a second.

That said, If I were shooting weddings I would get a 5D3.


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## Ryan85 (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks good suggestion I'll look into signing up for CPW


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## Dylan777 (Nov 24, 2014)

Go for another 5D III. Making money is the priority #1. Having a second 5D III is extremely helpful in any events.

Here is 5D III current price on CPW-street price. Nothing better than buying brand new Canon products through Canon authourized dealer(with Canon 1yr standard warranty) at Ebay or below ebay price: http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03868/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-price.html

I used CPW=street price twice. I would use it again in heart beat.


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## klickflip (Nov 24, 2014)

Why the need or want for a second body? Personally I've survived 15 years of not having a second body and none either film 35 or MF or digi FF have let me down. - I have and several lenses let me down tho, in which case id just adapt and use another one. 

I get changing lenses can be awkward sometimes but unless you're shooting national press then you should always be able to get a few decent shots in a live environment especially with either the 24-70 or 70-200 depending on where you are placed in relation to the subject / action, and to be honest this should be you biggest decision beforehand. 

IF you're thinking 24-70 on FF and 70-200 on crop then that at big difference in distance to the subject you'd have to be placed. As much as it get dissed the 24-105 is a great all rounder on FF for events and not half as bad as people make out. Basically i'll use this in varying situations if I know client will want a bit of everything otherwise i'll swap between 35, 50, 85 and 135Ls and get a more considered stylish take on the situation than trying to cover everything all at once. 

Moral here could be.. take your time a bit more and think about shots more than trying to capture everything, and caring looking pro or ready for the worst with more cameras round your neck  

5DIII rocks- nothing apart from 1DX comes close to the ease and reliability it shoots. All I'd add to my kit is a 5Dc or 5DII as a last measure backup which hopefully would never be needed.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 24, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I used CPW=street price twice. I would use it again in heart beat.



+1 for CPW Street Price.


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## Joe M (Nov 25, 2014)

I used to shoot with one FF and one crop. Once I picked up a 5D3, I decided to say good-bye to crop for good and now use a pair of 5D3s. Technically, one is supposed to be a backup but it gets used during the day. I find it immensely helpful to have one lens on one body with a different lens on the other. A FF and crop can be done, even 5D3 and 6D can be done but I've just found it quite easier to shoot single-minded with FF and more so with the same body. If it's in the budget, my vote it for another 5D3.


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## steven kessel (Nov 25, 2014)

My go-to camera used to be a 7D. Then, I purchased a 5Diii and I've never looked back. Currently, I own two 5Diiis. One of them is more or less permanently affixed to a 400 DO, which I use for birds and animal photography. The other body divides time between a 70-200 f4L IS, a 180 Macro, and a 16-35 f4 L zoom. 

The image quality that I get from my 5D iii is immeasurably superior to what I get from the 7D, even with extensive cropping. That's convinced me that there's no circumstance where I would substitute a crop body for a full frame. In the past couple of weeks a few of my friends have lobbied me to try a 7D2, assuring me that the image quality of the newer body is enormously upgraded over its predecessor. Maybe so -- and I assume that Canon would have figured out a way to vastly upgrade its product after nearly a decade -- but I'm really happy with my full frames and intend to stick with them.


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## Ryan85 (Nov 25, 2014)

Thank you everybody for sharing your experience, advice and opinions!


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## TexPhoto (Nov 25, 2014)

My first Canon DSLR was a 5D Mark II. I loved it for it strengths, but was frustrated by it's weaknesses. I wanted to shoot sports and it was slow and did not focus quickly, etc. I purchased a 7D as a second body and broke my own one body rule. And I freakin loved it. I loved having 2 bodies each with their own strengths. They complimented each other so well. 

Today I have 3. A 5D3, a 7D, and a 1D Mark IV. It is rare that I take all three bodies anywhere, but I usually take 2. For the same reasons. Admittedly, the control differences of each can be a pain at times. But the advantages... Sitting at a pro surf contest on Sat, the 1D4 is pointed seaward, attached to a 400mm f2.8 with a 2X extender. The 7d is by my side ready to snap the odd looking observer, or not so odd bikini. A few hours later, the 5d3 and 1D4 are swapping back and forth as I photograph a college basketball tournament. The 7D is 88 feet up pointing straight down at the other basket, snapping off pics with the remote in my pocket.

Anyway, to each his own. Good Luck.


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## RichM (Nov 25, 2014)

TexPhoto said:


> My first Canon DSLR was a 5D Mark II. I loved it for it strengths, but was frustrated by it's weaknesses. I wanted to shoot sports and it was slow and did not focus quickly, etc. I purchased a 7D as a second body and broke my own one body rule. And I freakin loved it. I loved having 2 bodies each with their own strengths. They complimented each other so well.
> 
> Today I have 3. A 5D3, a 7D, and a 1D Mark IV. It is rare that I take all three bodies anywhere, but I usually take 2. For the same reasons. Admittedly, the control differences of each can be a pain at times. But the advantages... Sitting at a pro surf contest on Sat, the 1D4 is pointed seaward, attached to a 400mm f2.8 with a 2X extender. The 7d is by my side ready to snap the odd looking observer, or not so odd bikini. A few hours later, the 5d3 and 1D4 are swapping back and forth as I photograph a college basketball tournament. The 7D is 88 feet up pointing straight down at the other basket, snapping off pics with the remote in my pocket.
> 
> Anyway, to each his own. Good Luck.



I have long had a crop and a ff body, and agree with you that the flexibility (and security) this combination provides is fantastic. Now the combination is a 5d3/7d2, and I'm very happy with both. I'd been waiting for a while for the 7d2, and am extremely please with it so far. Switching between these two bodies is virtually seamless.


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## Hjalmarg1 (Nov 25, 2014)

If you plan to continue shooting weedings just get another 5D3.
I bought mine during some weekly deals at eBay about a year ago and I am very satisfied.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 25, 2014)

klickflip said:


> Why the need or want for a second body? Personally I've survived 15 years of not having a second body and none either film 35 or MF or digi FF have let me down. - I have and several lenses let me down tho, in which case id just adapt and use another one.


 
Here is my take on the question.

When contracting for a wedding shoot, and if his camera fails, drops, or breaks, or more likely is damaged by a drunken wedding party member, and he does not have a backup camera, word will spread like wildfire, and he can kiss his fledgling business goodbye and hope that he can avoid a lawsuit for not having a backup to cover the obviously foreseeable event of a camera failure. Same with lenses, but he already has multiple lenses. 

Its cheap insurance and a write off from taxes. Brides that do not get their wedding photographs can be very vindictive, even if the contract covers illness, broken equipment or automobile failures, acts of god, etc. I have no desire to photograph weddings, the level of stress is too high for me. I do it for friends on a informal basis, but never as a contracted shooter.

He should also consider a second shooter using that second camera. Cars break down, people get ill, its a foreseeable event and should be covered. There are lots of students or less experienced photographers who can help out, and cover you in a emergency.


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## agierke (Nov 25, 2014)

> Why the need or want for a second body? Personally I've survived 15 years of not having a second body and none either film 35 or MF or digi FF have let me down. - I have and several lenses let me down tho, in which case id just adapt and use another one.



anyone who gets paid to shoot a wedding should absolutely have a 2nd body on them. even if its a rebel. you would be crazy not to and certainly tempting fate.

i had a shutter explode on me while i was shooting getting ready shots. it was my only camera. thank god i was the 2nd shooter and the main shooter was able to toss me her spare 3rd body. could you imagine if i was on my own! after that i immediately got a 2nd camera.

now i carry 3 bodies with me. 2 for shooting and the 3rd for end of the world nightmare scenario backup. and i always have a 2nd shooter with me.

ive been shooting professionally for 15 years now on my own and with about a dozen other photographers over the years. every single one of them carried 2 and sometimes 3 bodies with them on shoots. regardless of what kind of job it was. during that time i have seen cameras die in a variety of ways...more than i care to recall.

part of being a professional means you can get the job done no matter what. not having a back up camera is inexcusable under paid circumstances.

oh...and to the OP, get another 5d3 if you can. why not?


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## Tyroop (Nov 25, 2014)

> Why the need or want for a second body? Personally I've survived 15 years of not having a second body and none either film 35 or MF or digi FF have let me down. - I have and several lenses let me down tho, in which case id just adapt and use another one.



Interesting comment.

I've survived 32+ years with a variety of film and digital bodies having never let me down. However, if I was doing a wedding I would want lots of backup and no single point of failure - including at least one backup body. Wasn't there a guy called Murphy who devised a law about this? And besides, if you are in the States and doing this professionally, aren't Americans rather keen on law suits?


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## Sporgon (Nov 25, 2014)

Good advice given on this page above. A wedding is a one off event ( or at least it is supposed to be ). I too have only had an slr fail once in thirty five years of photography; the mirror fell out of a 5D. As the camera had no live view it rendered it useless until I had glued it back in- whereupon it fell off again shortly afterwards, and I had to get it modified properly, free, by Canon. So to be paid for services in producing wedding pictures without a back up body is a 'no-no', even if, as has been stated earlier, that back up is a rebel. 

The only reason not to get exactly the same camera body as a 'back up' is budget constraints. Two exactly the same is by far the most efficient option form a work point of view.


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## nc0b (Nov 27, 2014)

For weddings, or any once in a lifetime event, you obviously need a second body. Two 5D Mk IIIs would make total since because any different model will have some controls in different places. In a more generic setting, I mostly shoot FF, but it is handy having a crop for the extra reach. Even if one takes the position that cropping a FF is better than the image quality of a crop body, I don't think that is the entire picture. If I am shooting at a long distance, I can see my subject better with the crop. 

I just got back from a once in a lifetime trip to Easter Island and Machu Picchu. There was no way I was going to travel that far away with one body and one lens! I am not a pro, so I don't own a 5D3 or a 1DX. I took my 6D with 24-105mm and a 60D with 70-200mm f/4 IS. This combination covered all my needs. I could have taken my 5Dc but then I would have had two kinds of batteries and two kinds of memory cards. 

Aside from what I consider a special case - weddings - you need to look at the whole picture. I couldn't carry everything I own to Easter Island, but I do take four bodies on vacations in the car. I keep at least three bodies with a wide range of lenses ready to go at a moment's notice. An elk or an eagle isn't going to wait around all day for you to get your gear setup! In the 70s and 80s I always had two bodies, one loaded with Plus X and one with some kind of color film. One body didn't cut it back then, nor does it today.


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## Alefoto (Nov 27, 2014)

If you plan to continue doing weddings a second 5D III would be your better option. Even if I have never done a wedding, I have a couple of friends doing them and they always state they need to go with 2 cameras and backup of almost every piece of gear, if something breaks down. Otherwise they would have to deal with a very pissed off bride after having ruined her day... A second 5D III would be better than a 6D to simplify your handling and not having to dig around menus.

For nature and wildlife instead a 5D III plus a crop body it's way better. You can skip on teleconverters and have reach with better quality at the same time.

Maybe you need 3 cameras


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## tayassu (Nov 27, 2014)

The 5DIII is the better wedding camera and I would hate to shoot simultaneously with two bodies that have a different AF system (e.g. at a wedding). If you have long enough lenses, go for the 5DIII.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 1, 2014)

Alefoto said:


> If you plan to continue doing weddings a second 5D III would be your better option. Even if I have never done a wedding, I have a couple of friends doing them and they always state they need to go with 2 cameras and backup of almost every piece of gear, if something breaks down. Otherwise they would have to deal with a very pissed off bride after having ruined her day... A second 5D III would be better than a 6D to simplify your handling and not having to dig around menus.
> 
> For nature and wildlife instead a 5D III plus a crop body it's way better. You can skip on teleconverters and have reach with better quality at the same time.
> 
> Maybe you need 3 cameras



Lol maybe!


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## Phil Lowe (Dec 1, 2014)

I own the 5D3. When I wanted a second body as a backup or for wildlife, I went with the 7D, and just recently bought the 7D2.

If you're planning on shooting wildlife, a crop-sensor camera is going to give you more reach (more pixels on your subject) than your 5D3. I use the 5D3 for portraits and landscapes. I use my 7D for wildlife.

Having noted that, the shutter on the new 7D2 is so quiet, I wouldn't hesitate using it for weddings in a heartbeat. It would perform very well as a portrait/wedding/event camera, too.


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## adhocphotographer (Dec 4, 2014)

I have a 5DIII, which i love... eventually i would love a second camera (I use my wifes 100D as a back-up/second body when she lets me). Initially I thought i would wait for the 5DIV, but the 7DII is appealing as it would add length to my wildlife shooting... 5D for low-light situations and the 7DII for nice lighting and length! hmmmm... Tough call!

It's a tough call to make. If i where you, i would just take a minute to revel in the fact that our problems revolve around which DSLR should we get as a 2nd body! : 

FYI... this pic might be out of context, but it low-light capabilities are important... this was shot after sun-set at iso 12800 5DMKIII + 500mmLII... this is where having FF shines... some slight noise-reduction but not too much! I would never ditch my 5D, but the addition of a 7DII could be beneficial!


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## Thorix (Dec 4, 2014)

I don't run photography as a business, though I am using 2 bodies, 5D3 for FF, and just traded 7D against 7D2.
From the backup point of view (both FF) a 6D or another 5D3 would have been consequent. But as non-pro the additional features (video, GPS etc.) and reach of Crop and 7D2 were desirable. I didn't want to spend same money for a 6D which would only sit in my trolley waiting for the 5D3 to fail. That's why 7D2. Though, lens selection for parallel use of 2 bodies gets trickier. Due to the crop-factor, with the typical lens combos, you'll either have an overlap or a gap, when using FF and Crop bodies in parallel. But as regards handling, 5D3 and 7DII are perfect siblings!


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## Cosmicbug (Dec 4, 2014)

Thorix said:


> I don't run photography as a business, though I am using 2 bodies, 5D3 for FF, and just traded 7D against 7D2.
> From the backup point of view (both FF) a 6D or another 5D3 would have been consequent. But as non-pro the additional features (video, GPS etc.) and reach of Crop and 7D2 were desirable. I didn't want to spend same money for a 6D which would only sit in my trolley waiting for the 5D3 to fail. That's why 7D2. Though, lens selection for parallel use of 2 bodies gets trickier. Due to the crop-factor, with the typical lens combos, you'll either have an overlap or a gap, when using FF and Crop bodies in parallel. But as regards handling, 5D3 and 7DII are perfect siblings!


+1
A backup camera is just that, a backup and would rarely see the light of day. A 7Dmk2 crop sensor would give you more shooting versatility, with more reach and FPS.


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## FEBS (Dec 4, 2014)

If wedding and events is your main area, then for sure take the 5D3. Once I started FF I did no longer use my 7D (which will be sold now). Afterwards I added a 1Dx, as action is my primary area. For sports that's great. Even the 5D3 is good for sport (better AF compared to 7D). Wildlife asks for longer lenses. I even mentioned that the 200-400 1.4x lens is several times to short. For that reason I recently bought a 7D2. But the last one will never being used for a wedding. There I would use only FF. 

So as a backup camera in your case, I would go for a second 5D3.


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## Etienne (Dec 4, 2014)

Since you have the money for a second 5D3, I'd say sell your existing 5D3 and buy a 1Dx.


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## FTb-n (Dec 4, 2014)

Get the second 5D3. I did and am thrilled with it. One with a 24-70 f2.8 and second with a 70-200 f2.8 II is a killer combination.

If you get a crop for a second body, you will often be switching lenses between the bodies. There was a time when my 7D was my backup to the 5D3 and I spent a lot of time moving the 70-200 between the two based on whether I wanted the reach, versus the pop and sharp detail on the 5D3. Ultimately the pop and IQ on the 5D3 outweighed any reach advantage of the 7D.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

Phil Lowe said:


> I own the 5D3. When I wanted a second body as a backup or for wildlife, I went with the 7D, and just recently bought the 7D2.
> 
> If you're planning on shooting wildlife, a crop-sensor camera is going to give you more reach (more pixels on your subject) than your 5D3. I use the 5D3 for portraits and landscapes. I use my 7D for wildlife.
> 
> Having noted that, the shutter on the new 7D2 is so quiet, I wouldn't hesitate using it for weddings in a heartbeat. It would perform very well as a portrait/wedding/event camera, too.



Thanks for the advice


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## Ryan85 (Dec 7, 2014)

adhocphotographer said:


> I have a 5DIII, which i love... eventually i would love a second camera (I use my wifes 100D as a back-up/second body when she lets me). Initially I thought i would wait for the 5DIV, but the 7DII is appealing as it would add length to my wildlife shooting... 5D for low-light situations and the 7DII for nice lighting and length! hmmmm... Tough call!
> 
> It's a tough call to make. If i where you, i would just take a minute to revel in the fact that our problems revolve around which DSLR should we get as a 2nd body! :
> 
> FYI... this pic might be out of context, but it low-light capabilities are important... this was shot after sun-set at iso 12800 5DMKIII + 500mmLII... this is where having FF shines... some slight noise-reduction but not too much! I would never ditch my 5D, but the addition of a 7DII could be beneficial!




Great shot. Amazing at that ISO. I've never shot with that lens but with the 400 5.6 I get similar results shooting wildlife while there not moving much in low light. It's amazing being able to use ISO that high with the results. And your right it's a good problem to have deciding which second body we need!


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