# 60D owners...help, i need reassurance before i pull the trigger



## kriptikracing (Jun 13, 2012)

Please, post your opinion and/or pictures with your 60D. Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro. I'm gonna buy a 60D with the 18-200 lens before the end of June since that's when the rebates stop. My newborn son is growing fast and I'm missing a lot of memories from a slow p&s. I really just need reassurance that even if the 60D is 2 years old its still capable of awesome shots! I really can't afford to wait for a 70D nor afford the price. I'm just assuming a 70D is coming out and based on the rise in price of the new rebel. Please help me out!


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## Marsu42 (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro



Everything is fine with the 60d, except for action shots - the autofocus system isn't up to it if you use af tracking, get a 7d for a more current af system for not so much money more than it used to be. I'd get the 60d because it runs magic lantern, any for you coming from a p&s the 60d body is adequate for the not-so-stellar lens and since you'll have some learning to do using a dslr.


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## rpt (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Please, post your opinion and/or pictures with your 60D. Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro. I'm gonna buy a 60D with the 18-200 lens before the end of June since that's when the rebates stop. My newborn son is growing fast and I'm missing a lot of memories from a slow p&s. I really just need reassurance that even if the 60D is 2 years old its still capable of awesome shots! I really can't afford to wait for a 70D nor afford the price. I'm just assuming a 70D is coming out and based on the rise in price of the new rebel. Please help me out!



I had asked for advise earlier and the 18-200 was one of my chosen lenses. I got some good advice. The thread is at
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=4594.msg92804#msg92804

Eventually I ended up getting the 5D3 with the kit lens and I am happy as the 7Dii is nowhere in sight.


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## Stuart (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm a 60 owner for just over a year now and love it. I don't do much action shooting with the subject running towards me, but i do do some dance and people shots see here: http://www.ephotozine.com/user/jackalltog-97593

Personally i think its great and will be big step up from where you are, but you will have to learn how to use a SLR to get the best out of it.
Also note that a big bulky SLR can really get in the way on family outings and may mean you actually get less shots. Recent point and shoot camera's are also very good options for discrete or family shots.

Stuart


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## able 1039 (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Please, post your opinion and/or pictures with your 60D. Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro. I'm gonna buy a 60D with the 18-200 lens before the end of June since that's when the rebates stop. My newborn son is growing fast and I'm missing a lot of memories from a slow p&s. I really just need reassurance that even if the 60D is 2 years old its still capable of awesome shots! I really can't afford to wait for a 70D nor afford the price. I'm just assuming a 70D is coming out and based on the rise in price of the new rebel. Please help me out!



I love my 60D! If you get it, I highly recommend also getting a 50mm canon F1.8 lens ($99). I heard of it being referred to as a "portrait lens" and that sounds about right. 

Here's a portrait I did with the lens and 60D (hope my links work)






Here's a video with the lens and 60D
Lazy Sunday

If you are concerned about the burst performance (5.3 shots per second) for sports, here's a sequence that may give you an idea how fast it shoots. (shot with rokinon 8mm lens)





and finally, here's a video so you can actually hear the 5.3 shots a second speed of the 60D
Burst Mode Test Canon EOS 60D 5.3 FPS


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## kriptikracing (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks for the help everyone! I used to own an xsi but had to sell it. I still consider myself a newbie to dslr's though. Was contemplating the t4i but after a bit of research on the net and then playing with the 60d at best buy...the 60d just felt better compared to the rebels. That 50mm f1.8 lens is nice...I like it and will order it also. What other lens should I pick up? Was gonna get the kit with the 18-200mm lens but not anymore. Seems like the 18-135mm is a better choice so I might go with that. Or I'll just pick up the body only and get whatever lens you all recommend. I have about $1500 to start off with.


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## bkorcel (Jun 13, 2012)

I own a 60D. Used it extensively for shooting soccer games and wildlife such as eagles and herons. I would still be using it but had a need for full frame and some advancement on the AF front. Now my 5DIII is the primary and 60D is a backup.

Nothing wrong with the 60D for it's price point. Unless you have a need for advanced features it should be fine. If you dont know if you need the advanced features then you dont need them yet. 

I eventually did trade in my 18-200 for a 70-200 F2.8L which was 1000X sharper than the kit lens but also more expensive. After your 60D you should consider a lens upgrade. A good lens will make any camera look like it's a pro model.


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## Jotho (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Please, post your opinion and/or pictures with your 60D. Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro. I'm gonna buy a 60D with the 18-200 lens before the end of June since that's when the rebates stop. My newborn son is growing fast and I'm missing a lot of memories from a slow p&s. I really just need reassurance that even if the 60D is 2 years old its still capable of awesome shots! I really can't afford to wait for a 70D nor afford the price. I'm just assuming a 70D is coming out and based on the rise in price of the new rebel. Please help me out!



Hi, I can't post any pics as I'm currently traveling, but I would like to encourage you to go for the 60D. I've had mine for almost two years, upgraded from 400D. I am about to sell the 60D as I have now upgraded to 5D3. I guess that's what the 60D does to you, it makes photography fun and exiting and makes you want to learn more. I have used it with several lenses, 18-200 Sigma, 15-85 and since a year L-lenses. It's a perfect match with the 15-85. Shoots great video also so you can catch your son. I've shot some golf stuff with it for youtube fun.

Go for it, you will be very happy.


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## able 1039 (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Thanks for the help everyone! I used to own an xsi but had to sell it. I still consider myself a newbie to dslr's though. Was contemplating the t4i but after a bit of research on the net and then playing with the 60d at best buy...the 60d just felt better compared to the rebels. That 50mm f1.8 lens is nice...I like it and will order it also. What other lens should I pick up? Was gonna get the kit with the 18-200mm lens but not anymore. Seems like the 18-135mm is a better choice so I might go with that. Or I'll just pick up the body only and get whatever lens you all recommend. I have about $1500 to start off with.


Right on! I'm glad you are considering my recommendation! The Canon 50mm f1.8 is a beautiful and cheap lens but FYI: you need a lot of room to back up and get the shot. That's why I've still got my 18-135mm kit. It's nice to be able zoom back to 18mm for when you are shooting in small rooms or crowded areas. However, I must say the 50mm F1.8 makes people at ease when you are shooting portraits. People won't realize how close up the shot is even though you are standing 10-15 feet away! It tends to make people more comfortable when you're not shooting up close.

If you are looking for a long zoom lens the 70mm-200mm and the 70-300mm zoom lenses are great for shooting sporting events. Be sure to get one with at LEAST an auto focus and at BEST an Image Stabilizer too. (However, most people on here will probably say that an Image Stabilizer is absolutely necessary.) Keep in mind that if the 50mm f 1.8 means you gotta stand 10 feet away to take a portrait, a 70-300mm means you gotta stand at least 15-25 feet. 

Here's the site I check first before I make any major purchases...
www.dealnews.com 

Type in whatever you are looking for into the search box. If you don't see anything listed, check mark the "show expired deals" box and it will show you how often the thing you are looking for goes on sale, and how much you can save if you wait for the next deal. Happy shopping!


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## Bruce Photography (Jun 13, 2012)

This spring I spent three days in San Francisco in GG Park and I love my 60D with the 18-200. I do have the 18-135 lens and the lens creep is so bad that I won't use it. The don't like my copy of the 135 as far as IQ either. My copy of the 18-200 is just great. It is my favorite combination. I think the 60D Kit with the 18-200 is really the best value in the entire Canon line. I recomend this combination to anyone who just want a fun combination. The articulated screen if a wonderful feature with the sunken in base in the camera. A real screen protector when you face the lcd toward the camera. I use a Sun Sniper strap to complete this outfit and even find that Auto ISO works with the 18-200 in the dark of the de Young museum using IS handheld (no flash of course).

I hope you enjoy it.
Bruce


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## LSV (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm an absolute DSLR beginner and I highly recommend the 60D. I'd bought the 60D a month ago from Adorama at a great price thanks to the link provided by CanonRumors. I also got the Canon zoom lens 100-400mm for birds shots...some samples here: https://picasaweb.google.com/102416362590573303444/2012_06_12?authkey=Gv1sRgCMXopv2sho-EPA


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## preppyak (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Thanks for the help everyone! I used to own an xsi but had to sell it. I still consider myself a newbie to dslr's though. Was contemplating the t4i but after a bit of research on the net and then playing with the 60d at best buy...the 60d just felt better compared to the rebels. That 50mm f1.8 lens is nice...I like it and will order it also. What other lens should I pick up? Was gonna get the kit with the 18-200mm lens but not anymore. Seems like the 18-135mm is a better choice so I might go with that. Or I'll just pick up the body only and get whatever lens you all recommend. I have about $1500 to start off with.


My suggestion, go to the Canon Loyalty program. A refurbished 60D body is $640+tax...and they also let you take 20% off one of their refurb lenses (except L glass). You could use that on one of the 50mm lenses (f/1.8 or f/1.4), or the 100mm Macro if you'd want that. The 18-135 can be had for $250ish on Ebay or Craigslist, usually a decent amount of people selling them out of their kit. You could probably get the 60D, 18-135, 50 f/1,8 and the macro all for your $1500 price point.


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## dstppy (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Please, post your opinion and/or pictures with your 60D. Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro. I'm gonna buy a 60D with the 18-200 lens before the end of June since that's when the rebates stop. My newborn son is growing fast and I'm missing a lot of memories from a slow p&s. I really just need reassurance that even if the 60D is 2 years old its still capable of awesome shots! I really can't afford to wait for a 70D nor afford the price. I'm just assuming a 70D is coming out and based on the rise in price of the new rebel. Please help me out!



The 60D is fast enough AF and FPS and it has a lot of really nice features. No hesitation on recommending it.

The 15-85mm is nice and sharp and fast to focus . . . if I had only one lens to choose on that body, that would be it (my first setup actually), for the second, I'd recommend the 50mm 1.4

50mm is my favorite focal length on a crop body for children that you're around (close enough to supervise them)


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## Orion (Jun 13, 2012)

Why not just get the new T4i????


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## preppyak (Jun 13, 2012)

Orion said:


> Why not just get the new T4i????


Cause you can get the 60D cheaper, and because part of taking pictures is holding the camera. If you've held a Rebel and the 60D, you'll feel a huge difference.


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## picturesbyme (Jun 13, 2012)

...some will tell you that you need the newest of the newest but I think the 60D is pretty capable... of course the body is only a part of the final image... I would pay attention on the lens and the technique too...

...watch this, it's a cool video 

http://youtu.be/eQLwdD9BstY


Regards,
http://atlanticpicture.com/


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## kubsztal (Jun 13, 2012)

Orion said:


> Why not just get the new T4i????



- smaller buffer,
- shorter battery life,
- smaller grip,
- no back wheel,
- pentamirror,
- slower max shutter,
- no top lcd,
- no kelvin white balance,
- smaller range of exposure bracketing,
- no custom mode on selector knob,
- wider center/spot metering points,
- slower flash sync speed,
- no magic lantern,
- and so on...


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## 1DSLR (Jun 13, 2012)

Lots of good advice by the posters.

The EF-S 15-85 is quite a nice lens with the only limitation being it is not particularly fast for photographing rapid movement in low light.

The tilt-swivel LCD is very helpful for macro work (or self/all-the-family portraits). Between the two photographers in the family, we have both the EF-S 60mm macro and a 100mm macro. If you intend to do macro of small moving things such as insects, I suggest the 100mm non-L as it's image quality is very close to the 100mm L-version and the extra distance makes it less likely you will frighten off the small critter you are macro photographing. Plus, it gives you a slightly longer and much faster telephoto than the 15-85mm zoom.

Magic Lantern is wonderful; worth it for the focus peaking alone. Do make a contribution to the Magic Lantern web site when you get it; I did.

The Canon Loyalty program mentioned is a very good idea also as long as you are not the sort who seems to have very bad luck with electronics/cameras since the warranty is 90 days, not 1 year. I keep a $5 nonworking Canon I got on the local CraigsList just in case something comes up I really need on the Loyalty Program.

Finally, the poster who noted you should consider if you will really take this much larger a camera with you all the time is correct. There are a number of relatively high-end non-DSLR cameras that are quite good including Canon's newer models, Sony NEX (espescially the NEX 7, but with some of the good lenses for it such as the Sigma 30mm or the Zeiss 24mm it will be out of your price range), Olympus, etc. My Panasonic LX-5 still gets lots of good photographs and high quality video, particularly of family activities, because that is the camera I can always take with me without "the camera" becoming the main "focus" of what would be a family activity.

Save some of your money for a good circular polarizing filter (pick one for the larger diameter lens and get a step-up ring for the smaller diameter lens(s)) and consider a reasonable quality tripod. Also a few dollars for the quite reasonable quality 3rd-party aftermarket lens hoods. I picked mine based on Amazon reviews and they work well, only lacking the inner flocking that the Canon hoods have at literally 5X or more the price. Other items in the budget might include a brighter flash than the 60D's so you can bounce flash, etc. (Canon's are pricey but well-integrated with their system), a camera bag with some room for at least one more lens/flash than you start out with, and one of the under $10 aftermarket infrared remote trigger releases for the all-the-family portraits and macro work.

I do not shoot sports, so I can not comment on focus speed or tracking.


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## kriptikracing (Jun 13, 2012)

nice...awesome pictures and info everyone! 60D is my camera to buy. I'm usually a "buy new" person, but I'm willing to checkout that canon loyalty program since it's so cheap. Anyone ever receive a lemon going that route? For example, the camera died within a year. LOL, it's funny how I go from one bind to another...now I'm having a hard time deciding which lens(s). Anyone have a picture with a non-L 100mm f2.8 macro lens? If possible, I might squeeze that lens into my price...along with a zoom lens and for sure the 50mm f1.8. That macro lens might be a stretch though. Don't I need a macro ring light to take macro shots? I might be wrong so please correct me.


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## bkorcel (Jun 13, 2012)

To be honest you wont paymuch more for a new one with a warranty. The non L 100 macro is a fine lens. I chose the L version because I want consistent color and contrast across all of my lenses. The non-L is almost as sharp as the L model...some even claim its sharper but it's obviously so close that most wont notice.

The macro ring light is nice but not necessary. You can use one of the other speedlights and a hotshoe extension cable to locate the light where you want it. I use the ring light as it makes it all one unit. My particular style of insect and wildlife macro work doesnt afford me time to get another light in place. The ring light also has a bulb light for low light focusing.



kriptikracing said:


> nice...awesome pictures and info everyone! 60D is my camera to buy. I'm usually a "buy new" person, but I'm willing to checkout that canon loyalty program since it's so cheap. Anyone ever receive a lemon going that route? For example, the camera died within a year. LOL, it's funny how I go from one bind to another...now I'm having a hard time deciding which lens(s). Anyone have a picture with a non-L 100mm f2.8 macro lens? If possible, I might squeeze that lens into my price...along with a zoom lens and for sure the 50mm f1.8. That macro lens might be a stretch though. Don't I need a macro ring light to take macro shots? I might be wrong so please correct me.


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## picturesbyme (Jun 13, 2012)

Pbase is a good source for photos... http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_100_28_macro_u 

you can search for photos with a certain cam or lens at: http://www.pbase.com/cameras


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## Marsu42 (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Anyone have a picture with a non-L 100mm f2.8 macro lens? If possible, I might squeeze that lens into my price...



If you want to shoot macro (actual macro when your lens nearly hits the object, not "macro" in the sense of shooting a not-so-large flower) then the 100mm non-L is great, I used it a lot. I'd advise you to get the non-L used, there are lots floating around because it's older and some people upgrade to other macro lenses (100L, 180mm). The lens is at f5.6-f8 as sharp as the 100L, and this is a good aperture with a reasonable depth of field if you want to have background blur and are not at 1:1.

The advantage of the L is that it's sharper wide open, has a little better bokeh & flares and you can dual-use it for portraits and such (it has a limiter switch *not* to go to macro in addition to the non-L "macro only" - that tells all). But the biggest advantage of the L is sealing for water, dust & sand - if you use the non-L outdoors and near the ground, be on your toes it doesn't get dirty or the wind blows sand in your direction, I killed my lens twice and then switched.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:



> Please, post your opinion and/or pictures with your 60D. Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro. I'm gonna buy a 60D with the 18-200 lens before the end of June since that's when the rebates stop. My newborn son is growing fast and I'm missing a lot of memories from a slow p&s. I really just need reassurance that even if the 60D is 2 years old its still capable of awesome shots! I really can't afford to wait for a 70D nor afford the price. I'm just assuming a 70D is coming out and based on the rise in price of the new rebel. Please help me out!


 
If I were going to buy a new camera today, I'd pick a T4i or a refurb 7D over the 60D. The T4i actually autofocuses during video, has 6 fps, and has improved to the point of being better and cheaper than the 60D. I'd also stay far away from a 18-200mm zoom. I had one, its just OK, but superzooms are always a compromise.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 13, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I had one, its just OK, but superzooms are always a compromise.



Like the 28-300L  ? ... well, ok, this might be a compromise due to the price tag.


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## kubsztal (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Anyone have a picture with a non-L 100mm f2.8 macro lens?


http://www.motleypixel.com/reviews/index.htm?openfolder=Canon%20Primes/Canon%20EF%20100mm%20f2.8/
with macro bellows:
http://www.stopa.cso.pl/index.php?st=galeria/owady/wazki&nr=01


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## PictoPete (Jun 13, 2012)

This is not the first time I've heard people saying the T4i gets 6fps. It does NOT. It gets 5fps. BIIIIG difference. I just needed to clarify that since it can be an important deal-maker/breaker for some people! 

Hey, maybe the 70D will take the x0D line back up to 6.3fps or maybe 6.7 or 7.0??


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## elflord (Jun 13, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Please, post your opinion and/or pictures with your 60D. Especially if its portraits, action shots, or macro. I'm gonna buy a 60D with the 18-200 lens before the end of June since that's when the rebates stop. My newborn son is growing fast and I'm missing a lot of memories from a slow p&s. I really just need reassurance that even if the 60D is 2 years old its still capable of awesome shots! I really can't afford to wait for a 70D nor afford the price. I'm just assuming a 70D is coming out and based on the rise in price of the new rebel. Please help me out!



While I don't own one of these, my nephew has one. I'd take an XXd over a newer XXXd for the better viewfinder and ergonomics (the rebel doesn't have the back wheel and doesn't have an easy way to select AF points). I'd even take a 50D over a T4i. 

I own a 5D Mk II -- the model is 4 years old and just a year ago, it was the latest model. I've also owned a rebel. The 60D body feels closer to the 5DMkII than it does to the Rebel. 

Changes in sensor technology are incremental, the older body won't set you back there. The difference in image quality between the 60D and 7D is negligible (the 7D has some nice stills features but sensor performance shouldn't be a whole lot different)

As far as image quality is concerned, glass is much more important. This is where I'd recommend against your current choice -- a super zoom will not give you optimal image quality. For taking pictures of a 2 year old, I'd recommend fast lenses -- the 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8, and an f/2.8 zoom (Tamron's 17-50 if you can't afford the Canon).


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## elflord (Jun 13, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I had one, its just OK, but superzooms are always a compromise.
> ...


That and the weight. BTW, according to photozone's review, the 300mm f/4 and the 70-300L both leave it in the dust at 300mm.


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## elflord (Jun 13, 2012)

able 1039 said:


> Right on! I'm glad you are considering my recommendation! The Canon 50mm f1.8 is a beautiful and cheap lens but FYI: you need a lot of room to back up and get the shot. That's why I've still got my 18-135mm kit. It's nice to be able zoom back to 18mm for when you are shooting in small rooms or crowded areas. However, I must say the 50mm F1.8 makes people at ease when you are shooting portraits. People won't realize how close up the shot is even though you are standing 10-15 feet away! It tends to make people more comfortable when you're not shooting up close.
> 
> If you are looking for a long zoom lens the 70mm-200mm and the 70-300mm zoom lenses are great for shooting sporting events. Be sure to get one with at LEAST an auto focus and at BEST an Image Stabilizer too. (However, most people on here will probably say that an Image Stabilizer is absolutely necessary.) Keep in mind that if the 50mm f 1.8 means you gotta stand 10 feet away to take a portrait, a 70-300mm means you gotta stand at least 15-25 feet.



I suppose it depends on what you call a portrait, but I took some pictures of my baby girl at close to minimum focus distance (about 1.5 feet) with a 50mm lens on a crop. That will give you a very tight (slightly cropped) head shot on an APS-C camera. About 4 feet or so is far enough for a head and shoulders portrait. 

You do need to stand back quite a bit to get a group shot, but it is also good for that if you have room. Using the wide end of your zoom to "zoom back to 18mm" is risky business if you're taking pictures of people -- the perspective distortion from the wide angle has an impact on proportions (it makes whatever is closer to the camera look bigger) which can produce very unflattering pictures if used indiscriminately. Used carefully on the other hand, you can get some really interesting shots, especially with a small child.

IS is only important on longer lenses (e.g. 70-200mm).


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## wickidwombat (Jun 13, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I had one, its just OK, but superzooms are always a compromise.
> ...



yeah they compromised on the weight too 

but I think from what I've seen of EF-S lenses the 15-85 would be my choice with your budget constraints especially if you go the CLP route then also as others have said the 100 f2.8 Macro (which can also be used for stunning portraits) its pretty long on a crop and the 50 f1.8
I dont think i've heard many people say bad things about the 15-85 and that 3 mm extra at the wide end will be quite noticeable


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## alan_k (Jun 14, 2012)

I have a 60D and love it. I moved up from a T2i for the ergonomics. Some of that can be overcome with a grip (and I ended up getting a 3rd party grip for my 60D). That helps with balance and overall handling, although the mode wheel lock, back wheel, etc make a big difference if you fiddle with the controls. If you shoot on auto-everything mode, then they probably won't be that much of an advantage, and I'd go for the t4i for the newer sensor and hybrid AF. 

For my "kit" lens, I have a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 non-VC. Very good image quality, but it is not a USM AF, so don't get if you want full time MF and/or a quiet autofocus. Also no IS, but that is not usually too big of a deal unless you plan to shoot a lot of video.

I also have the 100mm nonL Macro. AWESOME lens- but I've used it mainly for critters. Can not speak to it as a portrait lens. I have a ring flash, but now shoot more with a diffused 430EX on an adjustable flash bracket.

I'm in love with the 70-300L- if you don't shoot wildlife, probably one of the 70-200L might be a good purchase. 

I've only run into AF problems in extreme situations (e.g. shooting flying birds). I could see an argument for a better AF camera if you were shooting a ton of fast sports, but in most cases the center point is good enough (I keep my AF on center point, use back-button focus, and recompose or crop for composition).

I have the nifty fifty, which is hard to turn down given the price, but to be honest I don't use it very much.

I also recently got the Sigma 8-16, but that's really not a lens you want to use with people for the most part (in my experience).

If you want more examples-
here's a BBQ I took photos at last weekend
Most of these albums were with the 60D


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## Act444 (Jun 14, 2012)

I, too, moved up to the 60D from a T2i a year ago. My T2i's AF was all over the place; the 60D's, while not perfect, is better. 

Unless you're a heavy-duty sports shooter (in which case a 7D or 5D3 may be better) it will do what you want it to do and more. The lens you put on it can make all the difference in the world, however. 

I have used the 60D for some action photography- I'm really not a sports shooter but I've gotten a decent hit rate. I do find myself sometimes wanting something a bit more than the 9 focus points but it's MUCH better than what I was using before (P&S).


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## Big E (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm enjoying my 60d
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericfdavis/7206971252/#


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## kriptikracing (Jun 14, 2012)

Ok so if I went with the clp...it'll be $640 for the 60D body. I forgot to ask the guy about a discount on a refurb lens. But canons website has a refurb 15-85mm for $640. Those two would put me at $1280. Plus I like the 50mm f1.8 so that's another $100. At $1380...well just say $1400...is that a good start? Should I look at another combination? Maybe the 60d with the 18-135 for $840, the 50mm for $100, and non-L 100mm macro for $560...that's exactly $1500. Decisions decisions AAAHHH!!!!!! Might be over complicating things though.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 14, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> and non-L 100mm macro for $560...that's exactly $1500



As I wrote before, there is really no need to get this new, I'd even say it's overpriced new in comparison to the versatility of the L. And the L even includes a FREE lens hood . And note that there a Canon cash-back rebates that'll chop some $$$ of your purchases.


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## noncho (Jun 14, 2012)

I've got 60D from about a year and I'm pleased with the performance. It's a great camera that can be used in so many situations. You should get fast prime(like cheap canon 50 1.8) and a good zoom and check what are your need further.

Good luck!


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## Dylan777 (Jun 14, 2012)

I have 60D about a year ago. I do miss the swivel screen for video shooting. I have two kids, 3.5yrs and 1.5yrs. Been there done that 

*DO NOT* buy kit lens and use it 60D. With newborn - you will be shooting alot indoor first couple years - this is where you need fast lens, f2.8 or bigger. With 60D, try to keep your ISO below 800, otherwise your pics will look very noisy. 

*With the budget of $1500, try one of these lenses:*
1. 28mm f1.8
2. 50 f1.4 or f1.8 (might not be wide enough for indoor)
3. 17-55 f2.8 IS (little pricy, but this is the BEST lens for crop sensor) 

Here are some pix I took last year with 60D + 28mm and 50mm prime. JPEG without PP. straight from camera.
http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa384/fifo_warehouse/60D%20Pix/?albumview=slideshow


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## Beautor (Jun 14, 2012)

Personally, for someone on a budget I'd seriously recommend (or second alan_k's recommendation) that you consider the 17-50 f/2.8 non-VC for a basic/fast kit zoom lens. The Canon 17-55 F2.8 is a bit nicer lens with IS, but it costs at least 3 times as much. The images we get from our Tamron are much sharper than when we had the Canon 18-135, although you lose the long zoom end. For indoor shots the faster aperture of the Tamron made it MUCH more useable than the 18-135 or 18-200 without having to break out the flash for active kids. I got mine used for less than $300. For the difference I saved over the Canon 17-55 F2.8 I bought a Canon 70-200 F4L to cover the long end. The only thing I don't like about the Tamron lens is that the AF is a little noisy; but then when I'm comparing it to L series lenses its a little unfair. 

I love prime lenses, and wish I had the money to get another one, but for a casual photographer looking to capture those unforgettable family moments, it's really hard to beat the versatility of a zoom lens.


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## DianeK (Jun 14, 2012)

I am surprised no one here has pointed out that the 60D lacks the AF micro-adjustment feature. I have a 60D and really like it but was unaware it lacked that feature when I bought it. At the time I chose it over the 7D because ergonomically it just felt better in my hand. I had the 60D + 18-200 when I went to Africa last year and was very happy with that combo (perhaps I lucked out and got a very good copy of that lens). But as I started to accumulate lenses, not all of them played nice with the 60D and I had no way to adjust for that. I got so frustrated that I bought a used 7D, calibrated my lenses and now my 60D stays at home unless my husband takes it out. So just be aware of this. I will say that the 60D is a great camera to learn on because it is less complicated than the 7D, but for me the 7D wins.


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## AJ (Jun 14, 2012)

I think the 60D plus 18-135 might be a good move. The 60D is an awesome camera. The 18-135 isn't exactly optically perfect, but it's a very user-friendly lens capable of nice photos. The incremental cost makes it great value. You can always upgrade in the future, if you wish.

With the money freed up, I suggest buying a hotshoe flash. Hotshoe flash is so much nicer than pop-up flash or ghoulish tungsten and fluorescent "natural" lighting. There's a bit of a learning curve, but it's something that I do recommend. Good lighting trumps minor flaws in lens optics IMO.

50/1.8 might be a good move too. I've shot some real keepers of my nephews with this lens. This'll be your lens for more "serious" photography - i.e. stuff you're gonna print and frame, rather than on-screen display or 4"x6" prints.

As for a macro lens, I suggest holding off just a little bit until you're really sure what focal length you like. 100/2.8 non-L is a wonderful lens but there's other great choices out there: e.g. Canon 60/2.8, Sigma 70/2.8, Tamron 90/2.8 Each of these is insanely sharp and produces wonderful bokeh. I own the Tamron and it's a superb lens - cheaper too than Canon 100/2.8 and it often has good rebates.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 14, 2012)

DianeK said:


> I am surprised no one here has pointed out that the 60D lacks the AF micro-adjustment feature. I have a 60D and really like it but was unaware it lacked that feature when I bought it.



Same for me - but you can around the missing afma (Canon obviously cut it to make the 7d look better, thanks, Canon!) if you buy only new lenses, try if the af is ok and if not exchange it. Imho the missing afma is really an issue for lenses faster than f2.8 and 3rd party manufacturers whose manufacturing tolerances are not specifically calibrated for eos bodies.


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## aznable (Jun 14, 2012)

DianeK said:


> I am surprised no one here has pointed out that the 60D lacks the AF micro-adjustment feature. I have a 60D and really like it but was unaware it lacked that feature when I bought it. At the time I chose it over the 7D because ergonomically it just felt better in my hand. I had the 60D + 18-200 when I went to Africa last year and was very happy with that combo (perhaps I lucked out and got a very good copy of that lens). But as I started to accumulate lenses, not all of them played nice with the 60D and I had no way to adjust for that. I got so frustrated that I bought a used 7D, calibrated my lenses and now my 60D stays at home unless my husband takes it out. So just be aware of this. I will say that the 60D is a great camera to learn on because it is less complicated than the 7D, but for me the 7D wins.



the 60D is a joke...plain and simple. policarbonate body, limited lcd on the top, lack of MFA, and a sensor that perform worsta than a 600d.

if i would buy a new camera in that price range i would buy a pentax k5 if interested on photos and a 650d if interested on videos.

btw i guess the 60D performed quite good in a marketing ways, so kudos to canon's marketing guys


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## RLPhoto (Jun 14, 2012)

aznable said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > I am surprised no one here has pointed out that the 60D lacks the AF micro-adjustment feature. I have a 60D and really like it but was unaware it lacked that feature when I bought it. At the time I chose it over the 7D because ergonomically it just felt better in my hand. I had the 60D + 18-200 when I went to Africa last year and was very happy with that combo (perhaps I lucked out and got a very good copy of that lens). But as I started to accumulate lenses, not all of them played nice with the 60D and I had no way to adjust for that. I got so frustrated that I bought a used 7D, calibrated my lenses and now my 60D stays at home unless my husband takes it out. So just be aware of this. I will say that the 60D is a great camera to learn on because it is less complicated than the 7D, but for me the 7D wins.
> ...



Lol yep, the 60D is a joke. A Super-rebel really, the 7D is the way to go for the extra $$$.


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## elflord (Jun 14, 2012)

DianeK said:


> But as I started to accumulate lenses, not all of them played nice with the 60D and I had no way to adjust for that. I got so frustrated that I bought a used 7D, calibrated my lenses and now my 60D stays at home unless my husband takes it out. So just be aware of this. I will say that the 60D is a great camera to learn on because it is less complicated than the 7D, but for me the 7D wins.


I believe the 50D also has AFMA, so could be an option if you're on a budget and really want this.


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## EchoLocation (Jun 15, 2012)

just buy the t4i, or the t2i. the 60D is getting real old and has an old sensor. If you need something now, buy a refurbished T2i(or from the CLP,) for about 450 bucks. Then if you really want the new thing, sell it and buy the 70d or 7DII when it comes out.
The 60D is a waste of money at this point.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 15, 2012)

scrappydog said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > aznable said:
> ...



Technically, the 550D also has the same sensor as the 7D. There is much to be desired in the 60D, especially it's funny ergonomics with the thumb dial and thumb pad in one.


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## Jotho (Jun 15, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> scrappydog said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



Guys, you're completely wrong and I will explain why. You're judging it from a pro perspective. The 60D was my second DSLR after he 400D. Those bodies taught much about photography and made me want to learn more. Comments about the cheap body is way out, it's not positioned as a pro camera therefore they won't charge that money. About the dials, well I guess it comes down to what you're used to. Someone mentioned buying. Pentax instead, well I don't know how it stands up, but I do know that if you're spending that amount of money it's not a bad idea to go with the market leader. Image quality is important, but there are other things that count too. Range of lenses, warranty, second/third hand value etc. I repeat my recommendation, go with the 60D! You're certain to be happy with it, then when you have learned more and want more out of your camera, sell it off without losing too much money and then move up the ladder.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 15, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> There is much to be desired in the 60D



Of course there is - that's why it's priced at it is! But as a compromise - any camera or lens is - it served me well. It just feels strange to 40d/50d shooters, because Canon split the xxd line and the 60d isn't a clear successor. 

Looking "below": much better ergonomics and specs (except afma, but you can work around this) than any xxxd which make it good for a stepping stone into dslrs, because you can learn a lot with the 60d.

Looking "above": A lot cheaper than 7d, and while the price difference might look tiny to red ring customers, it is a lot if buying first dlsr equipment and deciding if to get a kit lens or at least a efs15-85 or the like. And 60d runs full magic lantern, which is a killer feature for me.

Calling any camera body a "joke" is rather trollish, because it just depends on the budget, experience and usage scenario for each individual person. You could as well calling getting an 1dx to shoot your grandchildren a joke, but this isn't helpful either. Not because I would feel bad because some doesn't like my 60d camera baby, but because it ignores that camera equipment is about making compromise choices.


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## aznable (Jun 15, 2012)

we call a joke because we were very disappointed when it come out, really a step back from 50D

buying 2day it's really foolish for someone that is staring with photography, infact
all advantage except ergonomics over the rebel line are gone, and at the same price you can buy a nikon D7000 (slightly more expensive) or a pentax K5 (less expensive)


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## Marsu42 (Jun 15, 2012)

aznable said:


> buying 2day it's really foolish for someone that is staring with photography, infact all advantage except ergonomics over the rebel line are gone, and at the same price you can buy a nikon D7000 (slightly more expensive) or a pentax K5 (less expensive)



I agree the 60d is overpriced in comparison to the d7000, this wasn't like that on 60d release, but so is the 5d3 to the d800 - Canon nowadays is just more expensive, like it or not. Pentax is no alternative due to limited lens selection.

But you're saying all advantages over the rebel line are gone except - very important - ergonomics (back dial, top lcd, pentarprism, better sealing)? Well, except higher shutter rating, 1/8000s speed, 1/250s x-sync, faster fps, much larger buffer that is. For still shooting, the 60d is still a good option, but it's due to replacement next - at a much higher price again, talking about compromise.


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## aznable (Jun 15, 2012)

well the co9mparison between 5dmk3 and d800 is a non-sense. the 5d is better in several areas than d800, the 60D is worst than k5/d7000 in everything (except lens selection, but this is not a feature of the camera)


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## Marsu42 (Jun 15, 2012)

aznable said:


> well the co9mparison between 5dmk3 and d800 is a non-sense. the 5d is better in several areas than d800, the 60D is worst than k5/d7000 in everything (except lens selection, but this is not a feature of the camera)



... I don't think a 5d3/d800 discussion refresh is necessary, but to stay on topic while outclassed by the d7000 the 60d runs magic lantern while Nikon doesn't have any 3rd party firmware add-ons - this was the decisive reason back when I decided to go the Canon path.


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## aznable (Jun 15, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> aznable said:
> 
> 
> > well the co9mparison between 5dmk3 and d800 is a non-sense. the 5d is better in several areas than d800, the 60D is worst than k5/d7000 in everything (except lens selection, but this is not a feature of the camera)
> ...



magic lanter runs in my 50D also, but i never installed; it's not a canon product, it's something that you use at your own risk


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## Marsu42 (Jun 15, 2012)

aznable said:


> magic lanter runs in my 50D also, but i never installed; it's not a canon product, it's something that you use at your own risk



I was concerned at first about this, too. But at least the unified port nowadays is very stable, and it just sets a flag in camera to enable it to boot from the card - you can reverse this at any time. Given the features ml adds to still shooing, live view and video, I'd say it's worth the extremely tiny risk anytime.


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## DianeK (Jun 15, 2012)

Although I prefer my 7D to my 60D, I too take exception to it being called a "joke". If the OP is a first-time dslr user, this camera is great to learn on. It was 20 years since I had last held an SLR in my hands when I got the 60D and quite frankly, if I had got the 7D first I think I would have been overwhelmed with all I had to learn. But this is just my personal experience being a techno-weenie at heart. 

But I don't think I would advise buying brand new at this point. So my humble advice to the OP is:

1. if you want to get up and running quickly with a dslr, pick up a used 60D. Learn all you can about exposure/aperture/metering etc. then upgrade down the road. The only caveat to this approach is that if your primary targets are fast-moving children you may find the Servo mode of the 60D less than stellar.

2. if you are not easily scared off by the thought of a more complicated camera at the outset, then pick up a used 7D. It's better Servo will certainly come in handy with kinetic young children. I advise used because this camera is due for a refresh in the not too distant future and I think there will be a model with a better sensor that would then be worth buying new. The one thing I have noticed over the last several days is that the number of used 7D's being advertised on forums is declining probably because more people are hanging on to them since the rumour of a firmware upgrade on the horizon.

Phew, this is a bit long-winded...I apologize for perhaps writing a dissertation here


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## RLPhoto (Jun 15, 2012)

aznable said:


> we call a joke because we were very disappointed when it come out, really a step back from 50D
> 
> buying 2day it's really foolish for someone that is staring with photography, infact
> all advantage except ergonomics over the rebel line are gone, and at the same price you can buy a nikon D7000 (slightly more expensive) or a pentax K5 (less expensive)



+1


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## ThuiQuaDayNe (Jun 15, 2012)

When in doubt, SPRAY and PRAY.
7D better for sports but it is twice as much as 60D.


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## able 1039 (Jun 15, 2012)

aznable said:


> well the co9mparison between 5dmk3 and d800 is a non-sense. the 5d is better in several areas than d800, the *60D is worst than k5/d7000 in everything* (except lens selection, but this is not a feature of the camera)


The D7000 only does video at 1080p at 24 frames per second while the 60D does 1080p at 30/24 fps and 720p at 60/30/24fps. That's a big importance for someone who shoots video of sports. 

Also, the D7000 is edged out because of the swivel screen too. I shoot mainly skateboarding which means I'm usually shooting with a fisheye lens at a low perspective. I can't stress how helpful the swivel screen has been.

If Canon makes the new 7D Mark II with a swivel screen I'm making the switch, but until that happens, the 60D remains the most pro (swively screened) DSLR that Canon offers.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 15, 2012)

aznable said:


> we call a joke because we were very disappointed when it come out, really a step back from 50D
> 
> buying 2day it's really foolish for someone that is staring with photography, infact
> all advantage except ergonomics over the rebel line are gone, and at the same price you can buy a nikon D7000 (slightly more expensive) or a pentax K5 (less expensive)



LOL...*you gotta be kidding right? pentax???  * What are you going to do with lenses??? Let me guess, Tamron and Sigma ;D ;D ;D


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## DianeK (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm suspicious the original poster has abandoned this thread as we all here have wandered off on various tangents. But if they haven't I'd be curious to find out what their final purchase was.


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## kriptikracing (Jun 15, 2012)

DianeK said:


> I'm suspicious the original poster has abandoned this thread as we all here have wandered off on various tangents. But if they haven't I'd be curious to find out what their final purchase was.



I'm the OP. yeah this thread has gone a little off but I still appreciated the opinions. In my research, I've found the one thing everyone is consistent with is...lenses. With me wanting to buy a camera now and at my price range, I felt the 60D gave me the best option for a decent body and great lenses. So, I'm going with the 60D, 15-85mm, and 50mm f1.8 just to start off. I was hoping to get the non-L 100mm macro too but I took a step back so I don't forget that im getting this camera mostly to capture my son growing up. Down the road I'll buy one along with a bigger zoom lens. However, I haven't purchased yet because canon is currently doing their annual inventory check. That's why on the canon website you don't see a link for the refurbished bodies. When I called to do the canon loyalty program, that's what the sales guy told me. Blah, I hate this feeling that I'm ready to buy but now I have to wait until possibly Monday. Oh well...It gives me more time to confuse myself by researching which lens to get.


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## DianeK (Jun 15, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > I'm suspicious the original poster has abandoned this thread as we all here have wandered off on various tangents. But if they haven't I'd be curious to find out what their final purchase was.
> ...



Thanks for updating us. So just to confuse you even more: I have the 15-85 and I love it as my general walk about lens if I'm not out to shoot birds or wildlife. BUT, I find it is pretty much useless for indoor shooting without flash and am now looking at getting a used 17-55 to get that focal length range for indoors. Are you thinking the 50 1.8 is going to be your indoor lens? On a crop body, 50mm is sometimes too tight for group shots. And a 50 1.8 is one of those lenses that will really reveal if AFMA is needed. Just saying...
Diane


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## Dylan777 (Jun 15, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > I'm suspicious the original poster has abandoned this thread as we all here have wandered off on various tangents. But if they haven't I'd be curious to find out what their final purchase was.
> ...



Don't do it , 15-85mm will be very noisy for indoor shooting, unless, you plan to mount exnternal flash.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2012)

DianeK said:


> I have the 15-85 and I love it as my general walk about lens if I'm not out to shoot birds or wildlife. BUT, I find it is pretty much useless for indoor shooting without flash and am now looking at getting a used 17-55 to get that focal length range for indoors.



While f2.8 has some advantages for pro-level af systems on the 1dx/5d3, it certainly isn't shoot-in-the dark quality, especially on current crop sensors - or you'll get in ridiculously high iso regions in no time. You'll be better off with a Sigma or Canon f1.4 (on 60d, if you get one that doesn't need afma) that has some reach with the 1.6x crop, too.


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## DianeK (Jun 16, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > I have the 15-85 and I love it as my general walk about lens if I'm not out to shoot birds or wildlife. BUT, I find it is pretty much useless for indoor shooting without flash and am now looking at getting a used 17-55 to get that focal length range for indoors.
> ...



Well the problem is I also want IS for indoor stills and video (I just don't have a steady hand) and I will be the first to admit that I am _very lazy_ when it comes to trotting out the tripod. And my family just seem to act unnatural as soon as they see the camera sitting there on a tripod.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2012)

DianeK said:


> Well the problem is I also want IS for indoor stills and video (I just don't have a steady hand) and I will be the first to admit that I am _very lazy_ when it comes to trotting out the tripod.



Be sure to try out if IS really is a substitute for a tripod or other stabilization gear when you buy a lens. While IS is nice for non-motion still scenes or handy for steady composure of shots, video can still suffer with IS because the lens is only stabilized in a certain amount of shake radius, but once you move it there are still tiny jerks. You can see this effect on lens reviews videos like Tamron 24-70 Vibration Control - video test


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## DianeK (Jun 16, 2012)

Thank you for that link. For me, I saw enough of a difference in that review to confirm for me that for casual family videos I want a lens with IS or VC. I was considering the Tamron but have been reading quite a few complaints about the quality of its bokeh. I was also waiting for the new 24 2.8 with IS but it seems to have CA issues. Alas, no lens is "the one".


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## aznable (Jun 16, 2012)

Dylan777 said:


> aznable said:
> 
> 
> > we call a joke because we were very disappointed when it come out, really a step back from 50D
> ...



and pentax for sure...tokina lenses pratically...so?


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## kriptikracing (Jun 16, 2012)

Apparently even lenses are subjective. Earlier in the thread people said the 15-85 is great...now others are saying don't do it. Interesting!


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## Marsu42 (Jun 16, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Apparently even lenses are subjective. Earlier in the thread people said the 15-85 is great...now others are saying don't do it. Interesting!



Lenses are subjective, because all lenses and camera bodies are compromises, the top ones compromise weight, size and price. This is why asking what's "best" or "great" is not a good idea, only what's suitable for what purpose.

The efs15-85 is a very good standard zoom for aps-c (like 24-105 for full frame) because it isn't as expensive as the 17-55 and has longer zoom range. It isn't suitable for low light non-still shooting, because it goes from f3.5 to f4 and smaller nearly instantly and the current 18mp aps-c sensor lacks in low light capability. If you want shoot-in-the-dark moving objects for an aps-c, get a f1.4 lens.


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## kriptikracing (Jun 16, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Lenses are subjective, because all lenses and camera bodies are compromises, the top ones compromise weight, size and price. This is why asking what's "best" or "great" is not a good idea, only what's suitable for what purpose.
> 
> The efs15-85 is a very good standard zoom for aps-c (like 24-105 for full frame) because it isn't as expensive as the 17-55 and has longer zoom range. It isn't suitable for low light non-still shooting, because it goes from f3.5 to f4 and smaller nearly instantly and the current 18mp aps-c sensor lacks in low light capability. If you want shoot-in-the-dark moving objects for an aps-c, get a f1.4 lens.



What is considered low light? Also, what do u mean by shoot in the dark? Sorry just need a reference point so I can determine myself if the 15-85 is ok for me.

Bottom line, I'm getting the 60D through the loyalty program. I have $1500 to spend and the body alone is $640. If u were me where 75% of your pictures will be your child, what would you buy with the rest of the money?


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## elflord (Jun 16, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> What is considered low light?


Any condition that is likely to push the camera/lens combo to its limits. 

Most indoor daylight conditions would be considered "low light" even night time with "normal" electric lights can be somewhat low.



> Also, what do u mean by shoot in the dark? Sorry just need a reference point so I can determine myself if the 15-85 is ok for me.



If you are shooting indoors with the 15-85mm, you will want a flash. I wouldn't recommend this lens for photographing your growing son -- it's just not the best fit for this. Having a fixed f/2.8 aperture is more useful (higher shutter speeds indoors, more background blur) 



> Bottom line, I'm getting the 60D through the loyalty program. I have $1500 to spend and the body alone is $640. If u were me where 75% of your pictures will be your child, what would you buy with the rest of the money?



A flash and fast lenses. I bought my first SLR under similar circumstances to you (it was a Rebel XS for $400) and then got the Canon 50mm f/1.4, a flash and the 15-85mm. I ended up selling the 15-85mm, but the 50mm f/1.4 became my favorite lens. 

Given what you wrote above, I'd recommend something like the Tamron non-VC (get this used), the 50mm f/1.4, and a decent flash (e.g. 430EX). That would get you close to 1500.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 17, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Lenses are subjective, because all lenses and camera bodies are compromises, the top ones compromise weight, size and price. This is why asking what's "best" or "great" is not a good idea, only what's suitable for what purpose.
> ...



The pix below shows the baby is sleeping in the afternoon with window blind closed. Yes...there is still decent light around. Can you see the noise? 

Keep in mind: this is 60D shot with 28mm prime at f1.8 - 1/50sec. Baby is sleeping = zero moment.

If money is an issue - Go with 60D + 28mm f1.8 prime and/or 50mm 1.8 prime

And if you still going for 15-85.....I suggest you buy ext flash and bounce it off from ceiling.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 17, 2012)

aznable said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > aznable said:
> ...



All junks


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## aznable (Jun 17, 2012)

Dylan777 said:


> All junks



lol… oh gosh, and someone said i am a canon troll 
i hope you are kidding

@kriptikracing

get an all-around zoom to start; better to get a fast one like a 17-5x f/2.8 stabilized


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## Dylan777 (Jun 17, 2012)

aznable said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > All junks
> ...



+1....see my 1st post:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
I have 60D about a year ago. I do miss the swivel screen for video shooting. I have two kids, 3.5yrs and 1.5yrs. Been there done that 

DO NOT buy kit lens and use it 60D. With newborn - you will be shooting alot indoor first couple years - this is where you need fast lens, f2.8 or bigger. With 60D, try to keep your ISO below 800, otherwise your pics will look very noisy. 

With the budget of $1500, try one of these lenses:
1. 28mm f1.8
2. 50 f1.4 or f1.8 (might not be wide enough for indoor)
3. 17-55 f2.8 IS (little pricy, but this is the BEST lens for crop sensor) 

Here are some pix I took last year with 60D + 28mm and 50mm prime. JPEG without PP. straight from camera.
http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa384/fifo_warehouse/60D%20Pix/?albumview=slideshow


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## DianeK (Jun 17, 2012)

Used Canon 17-55's go for around $850-900. that could fit in the budget.
Diane


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## aznable (Jun 17, 2012)

Dylan777 said:


> @kriptikracing
> 
> get an all-around zoom to start; better to get a fast one like a 17-5x f/2.8 stabilized



+1....but budget is an issue here
[/quote]

i would buy a sigma 17-50 os because i like the brand (and also a risky life in AF), but he can get also a used 17-55 canon if he is patient. 

maybe for him is better 17-85 is that's very cheap (i know 15-85 is a better lens but the price is quite high ) and a fast prime for indoor shooting, thern he could resell them a buy somthign that will feed better his style of sthooting.

lenses are not like a smartphone or other consumer electronic products that loose their value in very short time


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## EchoLocation (Jun 18, 2012)

kriptikracing said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Lenses are subjective, because all lenses and camera bodies are compromises, the top ones compromise weight, size and price. This is why asking what's "best" or "great" is not a good idea, only what's suitable for what purpose.
> ...


while i personally think the 60D is a little long in the tooth, if you're buying it from the CLP then it isn't too bad of an idea. I might choose the 7D instead but that one is even older and definitely wayyy more complicated. Personally, I might just buy the 550D(T2i,) which is basically very similar to the 60D, just a little more rebelly feeling and without the top LCD. I'm not sure the price difference at the moment. Both cameras use the same sensor, have the safe AF basically and similar features(swivel screen seems the biggest difference to me.)
My cousin has a 60D and 15-85 and he is pretty happy. I have a 5D Classic and a 24-105(which, with the 50mm 1.8, and a used body, could be had for just around 1600 or 1700 dollars) and I think that this is a much more pro setup which kills the 60D in terms of photos of people. If you just want to take pictures of family that are better than a Point and Shoot then i'd go T2i and the kit lens(which was my first DSLR setup)..... Then I might wait and decide which direction you want to go in a year or two when most of the new lineup will be out and Photokina will be over(new 7D, 70D, low price FF, mirrorless.)
Personally, I don't think the 15-85 is that much better than the kit lens(although it is better,) I also don't think the 60D is that much better than the 550D. So personally I would go full frame, or rebel.
One thing I know(from experience,) is that it is very difficult to understand and know what you want/need/will use until after you spend a year or so using these cameras and lenses. I made some mistakes setting up my kit because I just wasn't aware of all the endless possibilities and repurcussions.


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