# Canon EOS R6 IBIS in action



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

> I have now seen the video of the Canon EOS R6 IBIS in action, and it looks really smooth. The EOS R6 also appears to use the same type of grip as the Canon EOS RP.
> Other things that I noticed from the video, the EOS R5 will be magnesium alloy, but the EOS R6 will not be. There is also no top-down LCD on the EOS R6, but there are multiple scroll wheels and I’m not sure what that’s about. The camera also has a much more rounded shape than the current EOS R cameras.
> For the record, the source that sent us the image and video of the Canon EOS R6 has requested that it not be published, and we will always respect those requests. I usually see cameras well before they appear elsewhere and I want to have that continue, so I will not burn any bridges for some extra clicks.
> The EOS R6 is real and has glorious IBIS, that’s really all we needed to know!



Continue reading...


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## jvillain (Feb 7, 2020)

If there is video that has to be a good sign. Are we expecting it to be anounced at CP+ or Photokina?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

jvillain said:


> If there is video that has to be a good sign. Are we expecting it to be anounced at CP+ or Photokina?



I expect the EOS R6 in May. The photo I received is legit, you can tell it's equipped with IBIS.


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## ronno (Feb 7, 2020)

Post the photo or it didn’t happen...


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## RayValdez360 (Feb 7, 2020)

Lol what? What kind of tom foolery is going on here?


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## slclick (Feb 7, 2020)

ronno said:


> Post the photo or it didn’t happen...


I'd rather Craig keep his word and the integrity of the site


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## PureClassA (Feb 7, 2020)

Damn! Come on mystery man!! Load that file!!


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## Gazwas (Feb 7, 2020)

Understand not wanting to post the image without permission but can you at least share how it looks. Does it look like the R or RP or is there a design change?


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## ronno (Feb 7, 2020)

So someone sent a pic and then said not to publish it?
Why even mention it then? Just for traffic I guess.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Feb 7, 2020)

ronno said:


> Post the photo or it didn’t happen...


We can snicker at others' impatience. Some of us are patient until the product is available. Meanwhile, take a lesson from nature and relax. This tree existed 4000 years before a photo or video was shown. Did it happen? Of course. For any curious > About the Big Kahuna redwood


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

ronno said:


> So someone sent a pic and then said not to publish it?
> Why even mention it then? Just for traffic I guess.



I wanted to get the video, that's why I posted it.

Also, I've been doing this for 12 years, I don't need to play games for traffic. I'm content where things are. I had no other way to contact the source. I have now seen the EOS R6 and IBIS in action. It's glorious.


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## jam05 (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I wanted to get the video, that's why I posted it.
> 
> Also, I've been doing this for 12 years, I don't need to play games for traffic. I'm content where things are. I had no other way to contact the source. I have now seen the EOS R6 and IBIS in action. It's glorious.


Question is, have you seen the R5?


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## jam05 (Feb 7, 2020)

R5 IBIS in action?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Question is, have you seen the R5?



Yes


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## Mark3794 (Feb 7, 2020)

We can expect some kind of developement announcement for the R5/R6 around CP+ ?


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## IcyBergs (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I expect the EOS R6 in May. The photo I received is legit, you can tell it's equipped with IBIS.


Was there a horn protruding from directly in front of the hotshoe?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> We can expect some kind of developement announcement for the R5/R6 around CP+ ?



EOS R5 announcement of some kind for sure, I think the EOS R6 will be in May ahead of Photokina.


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## Nelu (Feb 7, 2020)

ronno said:


> Post the photo or it didn’t happen...


I guess even a drawing will do


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 7, 2020)

I really want to see if there has been any significant improvement in EVF performance. It is the one thing now that really makes me hesitant about mirrorless. Looking forward to having a look through one when I get the chance


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> I really want to see if there has been any significant improvement in EVF performance. It is the one thing now that really makes me hesitant about mirrorless. Looking forward to having a look through one when I get the chance



I hope they're as good as the Leica EVF's


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I hope they're as good as the Leica EVF's


Best I have tried are the EOSR and Sony A9. Both not good enough for me for a dedicated action camera although both quite sufficient for a general purpose camera.


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## PureClassA (Feb 7, 2020)

So just based on the body type variance alone, magnesium alloy vs not. RP Grip (smaller frame) then perhaps we are looking at a $1500-$1800 camera, and the magnesium R5 in the $3500-3800 range... Your opinions folks?


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## Trey T (Feb 7, 2020)

This information could've been in the R6 rumor page because it's not substantial enough to have its own page.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

Trey T said:


> This information could've been in the R6 rumor page because it's not substantial enough to have its own page.



It was substantial enough for you to comment.


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## ronno (Feb 7, 2020)

What I am most concerned about is an increase in D.R. - hopefully they have worked that out.
And the slideshow (e.g. I don’t know where my subject is headed ) issue when shooting fast with the R.


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## Walt De Bosscher (Feb 7, 2020)

What was meant with 'same grip as the RP'?


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## Chavim (Feb 7, 2020)

Does it have a flippy screen?


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## PureClassA (Feb 7, 2020)

The more I re-read this post, the more I lose hope that this IS actually the “A7s” type competitor. Smaller body. No top down LCD.... 

... and ROUNDER??? Like, Less boxy? More curvature? Really obese? Im confused on that one a bit


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## LensFungus (Feb 7, 2020)

There were rumors about a camera below the Canon EOS RP and rumors about a video oriented camera like the Sony A7S series. What direction do you think the R6 will take after seeing the video?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

Walt De Bosscher said:


> What was meant with 'same grip as the RP'?



The EG-E1: https://adorama.rfvk.net/96PA4


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

Chavim said:


> Does it have a flippy screen?



That I couldn't tell, I'd be shocked if it didn't. It's a consistent Canon thing now.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 7, 2020)

LensFungus said:


> There were rumors about a camera below the Canon EOS RP and rumors about a video oriented camera like the Sony A7S series. What direction do you think the R6 will take after seeing the video?



I'm actually not sure where this camera fits in at the moment.


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 7, 2020)

Walt De Bosscher said:


> What was meant with 'same grip as the RP'?



What's not clear exactly there? There's a grip on the RP. So this camera has the same grip. 
I hope it doesn't mean Canon re-uses the grips from disassembled RPs. It's just the grip has the same form.


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## Bob Howland (Feb 7, 2020)

The 5Ds can be set for FF, 1.3x crop and 1.6x crop. Is there any word about whether the R5 has the same capability? Also, is the R5 actually capable of 20FPS at 45MP? That's a lot of pixels/second, more than double the 1Dx3 rate!!


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm actually not sure where this camera fits in at the moment.



If it really is called R6, it's probably a continuation of 6D line?


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## Jethro (Feb 7, 2020)

So, moving past the whingeing about CR Guy not breaking confidence with his sources (which of course he shouldn't do), the biggest news I read was that IBIS works great! I think that's well worth a thread, and keep that sort of news coming! And it sounds more and more like the R6 will be the go-forward entry-level FFM, taking over from the RP (ie hard to see a RP ii coming).


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## PureClassA (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm actually not sure where this camera fits in at the moment.



You and me both...


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## Jim Corbett (Feb 7, 2020)

> The camera also has a much more rounded shape


Take my money! NOW! I hate edgy bodies.
I'm missing those curves already


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## slclick (Feb 7, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> Take my money! NOW! I hate edgy bodies.
> I'm missing those curves already
> View attachment 188570


I know exactly what you mean, I use handstraps on all my bodies and those edges just cut.


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 7, 2020)

ronno said:


> What I am most concerned about is an increase in D.R. - hopefully they have worked that out.
> And the slideshow (e.g. I don’t know where my subject is headed ) issue when shooting fast with the R.



They already have the best sensors in APS-c cameras(M6mk2 and 90d) and from the sounds of things the idx3 is as good as anything in the FF market. So it is quite clear that DR is not an issue(it never was really, not for anyone other than spec warriors). But yes on the EVF issue. Having said that there is not an EVF on the market that has satisfied me yet


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## davo (Feb 7, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> Take my money! NOW! I hate edgy bodies.
> I'm missing those curves already



Me too. I am hoping the R5 is more 5Dish in body style. Sonys are edgy and look like toys.


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## Jonathan Thill (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Yes


Could you tell the size compared to the R? More like the R or more like the 5D?


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## slclick (Feb 7, 2020)

43 posts...you really want an explosion? Start this type of a topic on the R5 side. That body will sell 80/20 over the R6 (well, at least in the CR forumite demographic)


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## Bob Howland (Feb 7, 2020)

slclick said:


> 43 posts...you really want an explosion? Start this type of a topic on the R5 side. That body will sell 80/20 over the R6 (well, at least in the CR forumite demographic)


Do you really believe that if the R5 body costs $3500 and the R6 body costs $1500?


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## slclick (Feb 7, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> Do you really believe that if the R5 body costs $3500 and the R6 body costs $1500?


Yes. (See part about who)


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## Del Paso (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I hope they're as good as the Leica EVF's


This would indeed be great!
The Leica SL 2's EVF is the best I've seen to date.


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## slclick (Feb 7, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> This would indeed be great!


I only have experience for a total of 10 minutes with a Leica and an R in a shop but the Leica is by FAR the best EVF I have looked through. It made the M5 seem like a toy. It made the Pen F seem like a steaming pile of


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## jd7 (Feb 7, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm actually not sure where this camera fits in at the moment.


Are the R5 and R6 names confirmed? From what you have described, I could see the R6 being a MILC Rebel (albeit with some pretty good specs), either replacing the RP or being a bit larger with RP line continuing separately along he lines of the 100D series. The R5 seems to be 5D level camera. The problem with all that though is you would expect the R6 to have a higher number, as you’d expect at least one model, perhaps more, between it and the R5 in due course.


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## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

jd7 said:


> Are the R5 and R6 names confirmed? From what you have described, I could see the R6 being a MILC Rebel (albeit with some pretty good specs), either replacing the RP or being a bit larger with RP line continuing separately along he lines of the 100D series. The R5 seems to be 5D level camera. The problem with all that though is you would expect the R6 to have a higher number, as you’d expect at least one model, perhaps more, between it and the R5 in due course.


Why do you not choose to associate this with the 6D since full frame to full frame is apples to apples and Rebel to FF is a very far cry with the XXD line a much more tangible step closer if any crop is.


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## vuonganhquyen (Feb 8, 2020)

Is R5 R mark ii or another new line? any info about 5Dm5? thanks!


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## Drcampbellicu (Feb 8, 2020)

excellent news 



Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Canon Rumors Guy said:
> 
> 
> > Continue reading...


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## arbitrage (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> EOS R5 announcement of some kind for sure, I think the EOS R6 will be in May ahead of Photokina.


Thanks for posting the information and I totally respect staying true to the source and not posting the video/photos.

Is the R5 still a rumoured July release? Are Canon just going to do a teaser development announcement next week?


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## sanj (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> I'd rather Craig keep his word and the integrity of the site


Learn to spot a joke when you see it.


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## Alex784 (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Yes


Once you’ve seen R5, did you want to cancel your 1DX3 pre-order ?


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> They already have the best sensors in APS-c cameras(M6mk2 and 90d)


Yay, another dynamic range war!
In terms of the DR - no, not the best, although good enough. Still lagging behind Nikon D7200 from 2015 and behind Fuji X-T3.




__





Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting






www.photonstophotos.net





But I'm more interested in the FF offerings, especially R5 and RS/R5s. R6 - probably not so much. But it's very good they put IBIS in it.


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## Famateur (Feb 8, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> So just based on the body type variance alone, magnesium alloy vs not. RP Grip (smaller frame) then perhaps we are looking at a $1500-$1800 camera, and the magnesium R5 in the $3500-3800 range... Your opinions folks?



I think this new info makes an extremely strong case for the R6 filling the equivalent slot that the 6D filled for EF mount. I'd expect pricing (or at least positioning) to be similar.


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## Famateur (Feb 8, 2020)

Trey T said:


> This information could've been in the R6 rumor page because it's not substantial enough to have its own page.



I disagree. I think this new information is particularly meaningful in that it likely puts to bed the theory that the R6 will be a $3K+ video-centric stablemate of the R5.


No magnesium body
No top LCD
RP-style body

All points to an affordable 6D-like body. Right where it should be, in my opinion.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it had some stellar features that belie it's entry-level positioning...


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Yay, another dynamic range war!
> In terms of the DR - no, not the best, although good enough. Still lagging behind Nikon D7200 from 2015 and behind Fuji X-T3.
> 
> 
> ...


But with the extra resolution to compensate. So in reality equal DR if you sacrifice a bit in NR software.


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

arbitrage said:


> Is the R5 still a rumoured July release? Are Canon just going to do a teaser development announcement next week?



There's a little snag in this R5 rumour. Feb announcement and July release seem to be too far apart. Also July is low season isn't it? And seems to be a bit too late for Olympics.
They can do a development announcement on R5 in Feb, but it's unusual for Canon to do development announcements and 1DXIII announcement was an exception I think.


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## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

sanj said:


> Learn to spot a joke when you see it.


It seems you kind sir are the one missing the point.


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## ronno (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> They already have the best sensors in APS-c cameras(M6mk2 and 90d) and from the sounds of things the idx3 is as good as anything in the FF market. So it is quite clear that DR is not an issue(it never was really, not for anyone other than spec warriors). But yes on the EVF issue. Having said that there is not an EVF on the market that has satisfied me yet



So anyone shooting a scene with more dynamic range than Canon sensors can capture is a “spec warrior.”
Ok.


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## Nelu (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Yes


Well then, would you give up a 5D Mark IV for an EOS R5? Have you seen enough of it to take that decision?


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

So magnesium body on the r5 but not the R6. I would then assume only one card slot on the R6 and that it will indeed fill the 6d niche. RP(and decendants) may well remain as a gateway drug to FF as the r6 is actually impressively specced it seems and will not be a super cheap body.


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> But with the extra resolution to compensate. So in reality equal DR if you sacrifice a bit in NR software.



That was the very point of the recent DR wars  photonstophotos do normalisation, so the resolution in their graphs already contributed to the DR value.
Noise reduction doesn't equate anything as you can apply the same NR to the D7200 files and 'improve' the DR of competitor.

But if you need 32Mp resolution, yes, the graphs from Photostophotos become irrelevant. Interestingly, I was criticised for a point similar to yours in this thread when I tried compare the noises at native resolutions.


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## ronno (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> I'd rather Craig keep his word and the integrity of the site



This comment was Definitely tongue in cheek. Guess I should’ve put some emoji’s at the end so you all wouldn’t get upset.


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

ronno said:


> So anyone shooting a scene with more dynamic range than Canon sensors can capture is a “spec warrior.”
> Ok.


No. Anyone shooting a scene with more DR than a canon camera can capture should be bracketing or using filters to reduce the DR at capture or they will be pushing the shadows so much that it will produce a crap image regardless of brand. One stop of DR performance is such a negligible benefit as to be irrelevant. So while canon may(tbh already has)catch up to Sony it won't make anyones images better


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## JBSF (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> 43 posts...you really want an explosion? Start this type of a topic on the R5 side. That body will sell 80/20 over the R6 (well, at least in the CR forumite demographic)



Is that a Campagnolo crankset or one of those later copycat brands?


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## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

ronno said:


> This comment was Definitely tongue in cheek. Guess I should’ve put some emoji’s at the end so you all wouldn’t get upset.


It wasn't upsetting and Mr. Gupta didn't need to get his panties in a bunch either. I was just taking the high road and declaring the right thing to do. Yeah, once again, typing does not convey meaning very well without facial expressions, gesticulation and the like. Thanks Ronno.


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## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

JBSF said:


> Is that a Campagnolo crankset or one of those later copycat brands?


Campag since 1987 baby. I'm just happy to see you're the 2nd fellow roadie here on CR!


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> Anyone shooting a scene with more DR than a canon camera can capture should be bracketing or using filters to reduce the DR at capture or they will be pushing the shadows so much that it will produce a crap image regardless of brand.



And anyone who wants IBIS should also learn how to shoot properly with steady hands!


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> And anyone who wants IBIS should also learn how to shoot properly with steady hands!


Slightly different scenario really as IBIS(especially with what Canon is touting) can actually make a substantial difference in some(often limited to static subjects) cases whereas one stop of DR cannot. But it certainly should not be a be all and end all function


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## JBSF (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Campag since 1987 baby. I'm just happy to see you're the 2nd fellow roadie here on CR!



1971 Schwinn Paramount, 1975 Masi Gran Criterium--one of the earliest California Masis, built by or under the direction of Mario Confente. I bought the latter new and had to save for a long time to get it. Also had a few other frames with all Campy parts. I quit riding years ago. In the "olden days," I used to see some amazing frames. Hetchins was my favorite. I miss those rides on quiet, winding mountain roads.


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## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

JBSF said:


> 1971 Schwinn Paramount, 1975 Masi Gran Criterium--one of the earliest California Masis, built by or under the direction of Mario Confente. I bought the latter new and had to save for a long time to get it. Also had a few other frames with all Campy parts. I quit riding years ago. In the "olden days," I used to see some amazing frames. Hetchins was my favorite. I miss those rides on quiet, winding mountain roads.


Wonderful! LOVE those early Masi's. My current ride is a Ritchey Logic and I have a long history with steel framesets, notably some amazing 80s- 90s Pinarellos. I had a Paramount from 1987 as well. It was a bit steep of geometry for me after being on those slack PIns. (going crazy riding indoors right now with a couple feet of snow on the ground) Cheers!


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## JBSF (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Wonderful! LOVE those early Masi's. My current ride is a Ritchey Logic and I have a long history with steel framesets, notably some amazing 80s- 90s Pinarellos. I had a Paramount from 1987 as well. It was a bit steep of geometry for me after being on those slack PIns. (going crazy riding indoors right now with a couple feet of snow on the ground) Cheers!



Paramount definitely steep; sold it after a year, but it was my first serious frame. Indoors--can't imagine how many hours I put in riding on rollers. Cheers back.


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## Brown (Feb 8, 2020)

Are both bodies going to be less angular or just the R6?


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## navastronia (Feb 8, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> This would indeed be great!
> The Leica SL 2's EVF is the best I've seen to date.



It’s the same as the EVF in the S1R, no?


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## analoggrotto (Feb 8, 2020)

The King is coming home from a long war to get new weapons for the next extended engagement!


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## BillB (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> And anyone who wants IBIS should also learn how to shoot properly with steady hands!


Or a tripod.


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## Jonoes02 (Feb 8, 2020)

Does this mean you’ve seen video of the R5? If so did you see IBIS?


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## djkraq (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> It was substantial enough for you to comment.


Best comeback lol


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## jd7 (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Why do you not choose to associate this with the 6D since full frame to full frame is apples to apples and Rebel to FF is a very far cry with the XXD line a much more tangible step closer if any crop is.


I know the 6D series sometimes gets called the full frame Rebel series, but by any reasonable assessment the 6D series cameras are actually quite high end cameras, and a substantial step up from a Rebel class camera. For instance, 6D had a largely magnesium alloy body and 6D II still has a good quality body (aluminium alloy impregnated with glass fibire I believe I read), a body jsut a bit smaller and lgiher than the 5D series, pretty good ergonomics (yeah, the lack of joystick is not great!), a top plate for camera information and a level of weather sealing, etc.

So, assuming the R6 will have similar sorts of differences from the R5 that the 6D series has had from the 5D series, presumably the R6 will have things like slower X-sync, longer minimum shutter time, and slower FPS (at least with tracking - I know rumour has the top line FPS being the same), one card slot and perhaps even an inferior EVF(?). The rumours peg the R6 at "just" 20 MP, and the latest information from CR Guy suggests the R6 will also have a plastic body (or am I reading too much into the statement that it won't be magnesium alloy?), will go without a top plate showing camera info and may be so small it works with the same add on grip the RP uses. To me, that sounds like a camera which sits below the 6D level, rather than at the 6D level. Also, it seems to leave a very large gap between the R6 and R5.

Perhaps I'm looking at it too much from my own perspective, but as a 6D and now 6D II owner, the thought of a camera with no top plate display, a small and plastic body, and 20 MP, doesn't sound exciting, even if it has some other features such as IBIS. And assuming the R5 has a 5D series price (if not more), I don't see myself buying it, and the existing R will be looking a bit "old" without IBIS and perhaps inferior sensor and EVF tech. A camera sitting in that gap between the R5 and R6 is probably what I'd be looking for if I was buying an R system camera, and about what I would expect for a 6D series price. (That said, whatever the specs of the R6, I could end up being surprised. When I read the specs for the 6D I thought I'd never be interested in one, and the same for the 24-70/4 IS and the 40 pancake ... and yet I bought and enjoyed all of them  )


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## Jethro (Feb 8, 2020)

jd7 said:


> Perhaps I'm looking at it too much from my own perspective, but as a 6D and now 6D II owner, the thought of a camera with no top plate display, a small and plastic body, and 20 MP, doesn't sound exciting, even if it has some other features such as IBIS.


The lack of a top plate struck me too - and may be about cost and size. I wonder, though, whether there could be an intention that people simply use the different display options in the EVF for a lot of what they used to use the top plate for? I find myself doing more and more with the EOS R, and a new generation EVF (which I assume this will be) is likely to be even better. I admit though that the lack of a top plate display would likely stop me buying one.


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> Slightly different scenario really as IBIS(especially with what Canon is touting) can actually make a substantial difference in some(often limited to static subjects) cases whereas one stop of DR cannot. But it certainly should not be a be all and end all function



1 stop of DR within a certain range of exposure triangle means you can, for example, underexpose, shoot faster and then increase the exposure in post. That'll compensate the lack of IBIS and even with the IBIS, it gives you more freedom with moving subjects. +1 stop means 2 times faster shutter speed, in certain cases it's a difference between a keeper and a throwaway. 

In landscape photography, +1 stop of DR means cleaner shadows and more room for postprocessing. But depending on your style and genre of photography. +1 stop may mean very little to you.


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## sanj (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> No. Anyone shooting a scene with more DR than a canon camera can capture should be bracketing or using filters to reduce the DR at capture or they will be pushing the shadows so much that it will produce a crap image regardless of brand. One stop of DR performance is such a negligible benefit as to be irrelevant. So while canon may(tbh already has)catch up to Sony it won't make anyones images better


Noooo. 1 stop DR improvement will be great!!!!


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> 1 stop of DR within a certain range of exposure triangle means you can, for example, underexpose, shoot faster and then increase the exposure in post. That'll compensate the lack of IBIS and even with the IBIS, it gives you more freedom with moving subjects. +1 stop means 2 times faster shutter speed, in certain cases it's a difference between a keeper and a throwaway.
> 
> In landscape photography, +1 stop of DR means cleaner shadows and more room for postprocessing. But depending on your style and genre of photography. +1 stop may mean very little to you.


Yes. It means all of those things but it is ONE stop. I can not see any situation where it would be the difference between a keeper and a throw away. It is the difference between a keeper and a slightly grainier keeper. Or the difference between a throw away and a slightly less grainy throw away. it is not the be all and end all that so many try to claim it is. If an image is so dependant on that small a difference in grain then it isn't the strongest image is it?. IBIS however can give several stops of improvement(canon now claiming up to 8!!!!!!!!) which can be the difference between a throw away and a keeper. Although it also means in most cases sacrificing a sharp subject if there is any movement whatsoever. So for static subjects and video(neither of which a relevant to me) IBIS is a pretty big thing. The difference between my 7d2 and a 5d4 in DR(3 stops or more?) is a pretty big thing. But the difference between a 5d4 and aA7r4 is not a big thing. The biggest thing about it is a false sense of confidence it may give a photographer. Now. If that confidence makes one get out and shoot more often then fine. It may mean more photos taken which by default will mean more better photos but on a photo for photo basis it won't objectively improve images any significant amount.


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## Optics Patent (Feb 8, 2020)

Thank goodness there is a block feature. The DR disrupters are tap dancing on thin ice. Start your own topic. Stop ruining the rest. You seem intelligent and I might miss some occasional ON TOPIC comments you make but it’s worth it to ignore you for life.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

sanj said:


> Noooo. 1 stop DR improvement will be great!!!!



If they really use the sensor from 1DXIII in this R6, there's a chance there will be even more than one stop, compared to 6DII.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

Jethro said:


> The lack of a top plate struck me too - and may be about cost and size. I wonder, though, whether there could be an intention that people simply use the different display options in the EVF for a lot of what they used to use the top plate for? I find myself doing more and more with the EOS R, and a new generation EVF (which I assume this will be) is likely to be even better. I admit though that the lack of a top plate display would likely stop me buying one.


I was thinking the same thing. Maybe canon are thinking that as the EVF can display as much info as one would need then the rear display is more than sufficient if you want to check your settings while your eye is removed from the viewfinder. It would be a good way to keep the price down while retaining other features.


----------



## Gloads (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Maybe canon are thinking that as the EVF can display as much info as one would need then the rear display is more than sufficient if you want to check your settings while your eye is removed from the viewfinder. It would be a good way to keep the price down while retaining other features.


If it is video focused, a large camera sized display (like a recent patent) might make sense, especially if also articulated.


----------



## SmellyArmpits (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...Any chance that the BG-22 grip will be compatible with the R5?


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> That was the very point of the recent DR wars  photonstophotos do normalisation, so the resolution in their graphs already contributed to the DR value.
> Noise reduction doesn't equate anything as you can apply the same NR to the D7200 files and 'improve' the DR of competitor.
> 
> But if you need 32Mp resolution, yes, the graphs from Photostophotos become irrelevant. Interestingly, I was criticised for a point similar to yours in this thread when I tried compare the noises at native resolutions.


Here we go again.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Wonderful! LOVE those early Masi's. My current ride is a Ritchey Logic and I have a long history with steel framesets, notably some amazing 80s- 90s Pinarellos. I had a Paramount from 1987 as well. It was a bit steep of geometry for me after being on those slack PIns. (going crazy riding indoors right now with a couple feet of snow on the ground) Cheers!


Please tell me you guys don't shave your legs.  Litespeed Ti. Not me. I got it for my daughter when she raced.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Here we go again.


Fair point all. No more DR chat from me.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Please tell me you guys don't shave your legs.  Litespeed Ti. Not me. I got it for my daughter when she raced.


Please, you wouldn't want a hairy boudoir shoot, that's just uncivilized!


----------



## JohnC (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Campag since 1987 baby. I'm just happy to see you're the 2nd fellow roadie here on CR!



Third,
But a Shimano guy...albeit on a Colnago.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

JohnC said:


> Third,
> But a Shimano guy...albeit on a Colnago.


Then you shoot Canon so, you're only a 3rd Italian! (Loves me some 'Nagos...I'd die for an 1984 Arabesque)


----------



## AEWest (Feb 8, 2020)

jd7 said:


> Are the R5 and R6 names confirmed? From what you have described, I could see the R6 being a MILC Rebel (albeit with some pretty good specs), either replacing the RP or being a bit larger with RP line continuing separately along he lines of the 100D series. The R5 seems to be 5D level camera. The problem with all that though is you would expect the R6 to have a higher number, as you’d expect at least one model, perhaps more, between it and the R5 in due course.


Seriously doubt that R6 is an RP replacement (i.e. introductory R camera). A low priced R camera would definitely not have IBIS, that is too expensive a component for that price range. I think it is more likely the high ISO champion of the intermediate range of the R line.


----------



## joestopper (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Yes



Was this a commercial video from Canon for the market intro or a video that someone made who tests the prototype?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I think it is more likely the high ISO champion of the intermediate range of the R line.



Assuming they reuse the sensor from 1DXIII *and* that sensor is a high ISO champion, then yes. 
Otherwise Canon won't be developing a high ISO goodness specially for this lower end camera.


----------



## Proscribo (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Still lagging behind Nikon D7200 from 2015


This isn't fair: *every *APS-C equipped camera is lagging behind D7200! (According to photonstophotos and not significantly, but still)


----------



## JohnC (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Then you shoot Canon so, you're only a 3rd Italian! (Loves me some 'Nagos...I'd die for an 1984 Arabesque)
> View attachment 188573


That’s a beauty! I’ve always wanted to get a master and maybe I will some day. I have a c60 and vr1.


----------



## Sidepod (Feb 8, 2020)

Ibis ...finally!


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## Jethro (Feb 8, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Seriously doubt that R6 is an RP replacement (i.e. introductory R camera). *A low priced R camera would definitely not have IBIS*, that is too expensive a component for that price range. I think it is more likely the high ISO champion of the intermediate range of the R line.


Except I think IBIS is about to become a standard feature, at least in new R series bodies.


----------



## -pekr- (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



What does it mean - much more rounded. Like a ball?  I just hope it is visually pleasing


----------



## -pekr- (Feb 8, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Seriously doubt that R6 is an RP replacement (i.e. introductory R camera). A low priced R camera would definitely not have IBIS, that is too expensive a component for that price range. I think it is more likely the high ISO champion of the intermediate range of the R line.



How do you know, how much expensive it is? It should be regarded being a commodity, so since now on - IBIS + tilty-flippy on each R camera ....


----------



## -pekr- (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> If it really is called R6, it's probably a continuation of 6D line?



I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?

OK, just for an amusement, I will continue with my typical Canon rant - Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for


----------



## koenkooi (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> How do you know, how much expensive it is? It should be regarded being a commodity, so since now on - IBIS + tilty-flippy on each R camera ....



I wonder how the price of IBIS compares to e.g. a mirrorbox. The materials Canon released with the 5Ds shows that a mirrorbox is both complex in design as in production.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?
> 
> OK, just for an amusement, I will continue with my typical Canon rant - Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for



But it will have IBIS. Maybe they'll stuff it with some video goodness. But that's right for me: I haven't asked for such a camera, IBIS is exciting because shows Canon is going in the right direction, but 20Mp, no dual card slot and no weather sealing make it a no deal for me.

I believe though it'll be selling pretty well. But as a consumer I don't care much about that.


----------



## mb66energy (Feb 8, 2020)

ronno said:


> So someone sent a pic and then said not to publish it?
> Why even mention it then? Just for traffic I guess.


@ronno 
Please try to understand: Some people give away information but want protect the sources (honest journalism works that way). Others read these news and make their decisions.
In my situation I have some non-stabilized wonderful EF lenses like EF 5.6 400, 2.0 100 or 2.8 100 USM macro and I would like to use them a further 10 or 20 years. IBIS helps to extent their "usability cycle" and may revitalize my FD 4.0 17mm.
For me Craigs information is important to make my buying decisions. The money is there but not the mood to buy, and buy, and buy and to have lots of things in drawers ...


----------



## Dexter75 (Feb 8, 2020)

Any pricing info? I’m guessing $2500-$3k, too expensive as usual from Canon


----------



## Deleted member 68328 (Feb 8, 2020)

Craig,
Thanks for sharing this. 
Could you tell us if the overall size of the R5 is bigger than the current R? Thanks.


----------



## mariosk1gr (Feb 8, 2020)

I can't understnad based on the new rumors and the R6. This camera has to be between R5 and R and continues the legend from dlsr 6d series. For sure it has better specs from R and RP except the lower resolution which as it seems to be 20mp. Strange strategy for sure from Canon. If its going to be potisioned lower than R with better still/video specs then R II must be on the way also. But 3 ff cameras for 2020 and still many expect also a high res body which makes it the 4th? This is not a good strategy from Canon and they won't proceed that way. Something BiG we miss here...


----------



## YuengLinger (Feb 8, 2020)

Seems like just a few threads ago we were seeing post after post from favorite know-it-alls who 1) were sure Canon would never offer something as frivolous as IBIS in a FF camera (and they had quotes and diagrams to "prove" why!), and who 2) were sure IBIS would break any camera it was used in, and who 3) knew it would never appeal to real men pros.

Ok, in fact, the jury might still be out on points 2) and 3) above, but I kind of think we were reading a trifecta of incorrecta.

Livin' the vida loca, baby!


----------



## SteB1 (Feb 8, 2020)

Those criticising CR for not publishing the video or photos, or claiming it's all done for clicks are off base. We're all going to know pretty soon as to the reality of these rumours and it would be reputational suicide to make something like this up. It's pretty normal for a source to not want pictures videos published in case it gave away the origin of these leaks. This would as I suspected mean that the R6 is 6D type level camera. Tony Northrop was speculating that it was some super video centric camera, but this seemed unlikely from the leaked specs as it had lower specs than the R5.

Overall, I don't think we can rely on the previous DSLR strategy to predict how Canon will handle the full R release. I suspected all along that the R and RP were simply place holders to justify the release of lenses, and Canon's hand was forced by Nikon releasing their FF mirrorless system. Without that Canon would have probably delayed the release until now. I think the strategy was to show how good the lenses were to prove Canon's commitment to the R system and so there was something to test them on. Canon know they have their work cut out to reverse Sony's head start in FF mirrorless and this is the main reason I think they may use a different strategy i.e. instead of holding back features for later cameras, they might chose to go all in and to produce the most revolutionary features to claw back market share.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 8, 2020)

jvillain said:


> If there is video that has to be a good sign. Are we expecting it to be anounced at CP+ or Photokina?


Looking good Canon bringing out improved RF FF bodies along with their excellent RF glass, bringing more choice and features to their uses and giving Sony food for thought.

My only wish is that Nikon up its game also.


----------



## SteB1 (Feb 8, 2020)

mariosk1gr said:


> I can't understnad based on the new rumors and the R6. This camera has to be between R5 and R and continues the legend from dlsr 6d series. For sure it has better specs from R and RP except the lower resolution which as it seems to be 20mp. Strange strategy for sure from Canon. If its going to be potisioned lower than R with better still/video specs then R II must be on the way also. But 3 ff cameras for 2020 and still many expect also a high res body which makes it the 4th? This is not a good strategy from Canon and they won't proceed that way. Something BiG we miss here...


It maybe that the R and RP were never envisaged as long lasting models and were just place holders until the fully developed R models were released. If the R5 is effectively a 5D line replacement and the R6 a 6D line replacement there wouldn't really be a niche for either the R or RP lines. If Canon had gone for incremental upgrades to avoid making the R and RP obsolete, they'd have been lagging behind Sony and Nikon for some time. I suspect Canon aims to go all in and completely overshadow Sony. If the R5 is a 5D type line, the R6 type line and there will be a line to replace the 5Ds, the line up would be pretty much as it is now.


----------



## SecureGSM (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Validated (for me personally) the point that the R6 is going to be a replacement for RP product line and R5 being a replacement for the R.


----------



## SecureGSM (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?
> 
> OK, just for an amusement, I will continue with my typical Canon rant - Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for



6D Body was made out of plastic in case you were Wondering. therefor a plastic body in R6 and a single card slot is a reasonable expectation. Just wait until R5 and R6 pricing was announced. A plastic body limitation in R6 will make more sense to you and your wallet then.


----------



## dlee13 (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> No. Anyone shooting a scene with more DR than a canon camera can capture should be bracketing or using filters to reduce the DR at capture or they will be pushing the shadows so much that it will produce a crap image regardless of brand. One stop of DR performance is such a negligible benefit as to be irrelevant. So while canon may(tbh already has)catch up to Sony it won't make anyones images better



My primary body is a Sony A7III but I also own and use a Canon M5. The whole DR thing is very overblown and I agree that bracketing is best as that’s what I tend to do with my images. I’ve had images from the Sony that I’ve pushed only 2 stops and where full of color noise. No sensor is perfect and it’s more about technique.

To me the most important part of a system is the lenses, which Canon makes amazing ones! I’m really excited to see what the R5/6 has to offer. I also think in terms of stills shooting they’ll definitely blow people away. Most complaints are usually video-centric anyways.


----------



## Andy Westwood (Feb 8, 2020)

I’m really liking the sound of the R6 with its low mega pixel count which presumably means higher ISO and more FPS. IBIS must come to all decent cameras sooner or later as Sony has now set the precedence.

I think the top LCD plate will soon be a thing of the past on all but the high end full pro cameras as it isn’t as necessary given it being so easy to view and adjust settings on the back screen of Canon cameras those days.

What I do hope Canon carry forward from the R is the housing protecting the senor when changing lenses, I think this is a great idea.

I hope the camera is light in the hand, somewhere between the weight of the R and RP would be welcome.

As I web shooter, I’m looking forward to a high spec but low mega pixel camera with all the benefit that come with a low pixel count and I like the sound of the rounder body too.

Exciting times ahead for us dedicated Canon shooters.


----------



## koenkooi (Feb 8, 2020)

Andy Westwood said:


> [..]
> I think the top LCD plate will soon be a thing of the past on all but the high end full pro cameras as it isn’t as necessary given it being so easy to view and adjust settings on the back screen of Canon cameras those days.
> [..]


Or in the EVF while shooting. On that subject, I hope Canon finally figured out how to add a smaller electronic level widget, not the subject obscuring monstrosity it has now.


----------



## trulandphoto (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The EG-E1: https://adorama.rfvk.net/96PA4



OK, so same grip as the RP means it's the same basic form factor as the RP. Obviously the R6 will basically be an RP with IBIS and 6 fewer MP. I can look forward to that as part of a stable of R series bodies.


----------



## SecureGSM (Feb 8, 2020)

Andy Westwood said:


> I’m really liking the sound of the R6 with its low mega pixel count which presumably means higher ISO and more FPS. IBIS must come to all decent cameras sooner or later as Sony has now set the precedence.
> 
> I think the top LCD plate will soon be a thing of the past on all but the high end full pro cameras as it isn’t as necessary given it being so easy to view and adjust settings on the back screen of Canon cameras those days.
> 
> ...



++++ I’m really liking the sound of the R6 with its low mega pixel count which presumably means higher ISO and more FPS. IBIS must come to all decent cameras sooner or later as Sony has now set the precedence.

A.M.: a higher fps in R6 is out of scope  lower res, lower fps, single card slot, a non-magnesium body, etc comparing to R5 are just a product line differentiators. the R6 RRP will reflect upon these limitations.


----------



## Tom W (Feb 8, 2020)

I would not be surprised if the R6 and the new 24-105 kit were announced very, very soon...


----------



## MEAllred (Feb 8, 2020)

How can you discuss that you saw a video and describe its contents, but you can't actually post it??? At that point, the cat is out of the bag and it makes no sense to not post... Post the video!!!


----------



## riker (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> I really want to see if there has been any significant improvement in EVF performance. It is the one thing now that really makes me hesitant about mirrorless. Looking forward to having a look through one when I get the chance


+
Same here. I just checked the EVF of the R. In still a situation it has reached the level of OK for me (which is a big thing). But when moving the camera...meh...nah...bad. Lacking CPU? Lacking EVF refresh rate? Both? I don't know but it's not OK.


----------



## Dj 7th (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I wanted to get the video, that's why I posted it.
> 
> Also, I've been doing this for 12 years, I don't need to play games for traffic. I'm content where things are. I had no other way to contact the source. I have now seen the EOS R6 and IBIS in action. It's glorious.





Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...




Thank you very much for sharing this information, it sure is enough for me. I currently have two EOS Rs and six RF lenses and all I am waiting for is the next RF camera. I shoot stills and do not care much about video for now and the R5 is looking really promising, looks like most of what I need is being addressed. I just need to pay off some debt.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Feb 8, 2020)

The 20MP sensor seems a bit of an odd choice considering it will be the lowest resolution full frame on the market, except the 1D type bodies.
Which can be great if the quality is similar to the 1DX and will be a super camera for almost anything.


----------



## CvH (Feb 8, 2020)

Aussie shooter said:


> No. Anyone shooting a scene with more DR than a canon camera can capture should be bracketing or using filters to reduce the DR at capture or they will be pushing the shadows so much that it will produce a crap image regardless of brand. One stop of DR performance is such a negligible benefit as to be irrelevant. So while canon may(tbh already has)catch up to Sony it won't make anyones images better


So how do you use filter or bracketing on fast moving subjects??

What's wrong with wanting more DR?


----------



## jam05 (Feb 8, 2020)

jvillain said:


> If there is video that has to be a good sign. Are we expecting it to be anounced at CP+ or Photokina?


Photokina would be a waste of money for manufacturers. The Olympics is July 7. Inventory should be shipping well before that date and in the hands of the consumer. CP+ is positioned correctly.


----------



## unfocused (Feb 8, 2020)

MEAllred said:


> How can you discuss that you saw a video and describe its contents, but you can't actually post it??? At that point, the cat is out of the bag and it makes no sense to not post... Post the video!!!


Because the content of the video could enable Canon to identify the source?


----------



## unfocused (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?
> 
> OK, just for an amusement, I will continue with my typical Canon rant - Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for


And yet many of those noones will buy it.


----------



## Adelino (Feb 8, 2020)

MEAllred said:


> How can you discuss that you saw a video and describe its contents, but you can't actually post it??? At that point, the cat is out of the bag and it makes no sense to not post... Post the video!!!


There could be identifying information in the video. Or other reasons. I trust Craig knows how to manage source ID and confidentiality. We don't want sources to clam up.


----------



## Terry Danks (Feb 8, 2020)

"_Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked fo_r"

Who decides that?

If the rumoured R5 has IBIS, 45MP and 1080/60, it is very much a camera I asked for. All the other rumoured specs are mere folderal AFAIAC. Now I need to know the price. Will I keep my R? Dunn'o. Likely it won't be worth enough on the used market to bother selling, so I probably will keep it.


----------



## katysei (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?
> 
> OK, just for an amusement, I will continue with my typical Canon rant - Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for


Canon cripple hammer?


----------



## Dexter75 (Feb 8, 2020)

trulandphoto said:


> OK, so same grip as the RP means it's the same basic form factor as the RP. Obviously the R6 will basically be an RP with IBIS and 6 fewer MP. I can look forward to that as part of a stable of R series bodies.



yes. Basically an RP with IBIS and 6 less megapixels that’s probably going to cost about $1500 more than the RP. Great market strategy. Only way this thing sells is if it’s priced around $1k, which it won’t be.


----------



## RunAndGun (Feb 8, 2020)

ronno said:


> So someone sent a pic and then said not to publish it?
> Why even mention it then? Just for traffic I guess.



Is this your first visit to a rumor site?


----------



## Del Paso (Feb 8, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> We can snicker at others' impatience. Some of us are patient until the product is available. Meanwhile, take a lesson from nature and relax. This tree existed 4000 years before a photo or video was shown. Did it happen? Of course. For any curious > About the Big Kahuna redwood
> 
> View attachment 188569


We are interested!
Thanks for the link!


----------



## unfocused (Feb 8, 2020)

I admit this probably won't be the camera for me. That doesn't mean it won't sell well, just not what I was hoping for.

I was hoping it would be an R companion to the 1DX III -- slightly slower frame rate, two SDII slots, better autofocus and a few other comprises that would keep the price and positioning down but be a low light monster that would still be useful as a second body at times. Unfortunately, for me at least, this looks more like the 6D companion most people have predicted.

My latest guess about positioning:

RP stays in the lineup, but may drop in price.
R stays in the lineup, but may drop in price.
R6 is priced about where the R started, but possibly slightly lower.
R5 could be anywhere from $2,500 - $4,000, depending on final specs.

R5 and 5D V share the same sensor and have comparable specs. Not sure which one will be priced lower, or if they will essentially be the same price.

Regardless, it is going to be fun to see what Canon has in store for us and then read all the whining on Canon Rumors.


----------



## Pape (Feb 8, 2020)

If new sensor gives 1 stop more high iso performance ,would be like canon shooting himself leg when not to use that 20mpixel one ,even 5div sensor would be inferior and old


----------



## amorse (Feb 8, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> yes. Basically an RP with IBIS and 6 less megapixels that’s probably going to cost about $1500 more than the RP. Great market strategy. Only way this thing sells is if it’s priced around $1k, which it won’t be.


I'm going to disagree with that one. If the earlier specs are correct, i.e. 20fps electronic shutter, 12fps mechanical, 4k60, IBIS, this thing will likely sell just fine. That's a far cry from an RP with 6 fewer mp and IBIS.


----------



## BeenThere (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I hope they're as good as the Leica EVF's





Aussie shooter said:


> So magnesium body on the r5 but not the R6. I would then assume only one card slot on the R6 and that it will indeed fill the 6d niche. RP(and decendants) may well remain as a gateway drug to FF as the r6 is actually impressively specced it seems and will not be a super cheap body.


How can one tell from a video if a camera body is magnesium or something else? There must have been some audio giving some specs, so is Craig holding back additional information?


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?
> 
> OK, just for an amusement, I will continue with my typical Canon rant - Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for


I do not see the R6 line as being some sort of continuation of the 6D line. Rather the naming scheme parallels the D lines in tiers, not function.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon's new aggressive strategy has people twisting their underwear into wads. This is getting really funny to read. Reading things like "6D replacement" or "6D equivalent" is getting comical. Guys, this is a whole new product line that doesn't and will not follow the old "rules". Treat it like that. These cameras don't have to replace a got dang thing. Get off trying to squeeze these machines into a position they aren't necessarily supposed to fit into.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Canon's new aggressive strategy has people twisting their underwear into wads. This is getting really funny to read. Reading things like "6D replacement" or "6D equivalent" is getting comical. Guys, this is a whole new product line that doesn't and will not follow the old "rules". Treat it like that. These cameras don't have to replace a got dang thing. Get off trying to squeeze these machines into a position they aren't necessarily supposed to fit into.


You took my above post and added some flair.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> You took my above post and added some flair.


I always knew I liked the way you think.


----------



## joestopper (Feb 8, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> So just based on the body type variance alone, magnesium alloy vs not. RP Grip (smaller frame) then perhaps we are looking at a $1500-$1800 camera, and the magnesium R5 in the $3500-3800 range... Your opinions folks?



yes.
But: why does this camera only have 20MP? Because of light capabilities? Then it has the sensor of the


slclick said:


> Campag since 1987 baby. I'm just happy to see you're the 2nd fellow roadie here on CR!



Here is the 3rd: Campagnolo for 20+ years ...


----------



## Southstorm (Feb 8, 2020)

Perhaps someone could educate me regarding the lack of TOP LCD panel...how many other brands of camera have the top panel?


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

joestopper said:


> yes.
> But: why does this camera only have 20MP? Because of light capabilities? Then it has the sensor of the
> 
> 
> Here is the 3rd: Campagnolo for 20+ years ...


It is tough to see where this body falls. On one hand it's an R5 little sibling on the other it's a Sony A7s killer with a 1DXiii sensor (possibly) So is it a video heavy hybrid or a less featured R5....or both?
Whichever, it will have it's own domain and nothing to do with the 6D lineup.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

Southstorm said:


> Perhaps someone could educate me regarding the lack of TOP LCD panel...how many other brands of camera have the top panel?


Not that many yet with Canon the entire top section, panel/dials and all have been a way to differentiate tiers.


----------



## Dexter75 (Feb 8, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> So just based on the body type variance alone, magnesium alloy vs not. RP Grip (smaller frame) then perhaps we are looking at a $1500-$1800 camera, and the magnesium R5 in the $3500-3800 range... Your opinions folks?



You actually think Canon is going to pack all that into the R6 and sell it only a few hundred more than the RP? Lol. R6 is going to be close to $3k and the R5 close to $5k. This is Canon we are talking about here...


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

sanj said:


> Learn to spot a joke when you see it.



Like spot a  
there were none

anyway, it was a lame joke


----------



## Gazwas (Feb 8, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> You actually think Canon is going to pack all that into the R6 and sell it only a few hundred more than the RP? Lol. R6 is going to be close to $3k and the R5 close to $5k. This is Canon we are talking about here...


No matter where they position it, considering the Nikon Z6 just got an upgrade to shoot ProRes RAW making it one of the best mirrorless cameras for video, the R6 better be good.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Campag since 1987 baby. I'm just happy to see you're the 2nd fellow roadie here on CR!


Dura Ace


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> And anyone who wants IBIS should also learn how to shoot properly with steady hands!


You forgot to end it with a:


----------



## AlanF (Feb 8, 2020)

This a real IBIS in action, and it is glossy.


----------



## dwarven (Feb 8, 2020)

ronno said:


> Post the photo or it didn’t happen...



Did you not read the OP? If they out their sources we don't get any more rumors.


----------



## Eersel (Feb 8, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I hope they're as good as the Leica EVF's



Is there Rolling shutter improvements on the R6.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

Anyone shooting the Snow Moon tonight? Maybe with an Ra? (Gotta stay sort of on topic) Last night the clouds parted for a few minutes and I got a couple but not with my usual moon settings as I was rushed + from a deck in the backyard of the the suburbs with light pollution.


----------



## miketcool (Feb 8, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Dura Ace



Dura Ace and Hollowtech I 105’s


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Anyone shooting the Snow Moon tonight? Maybe with an Ra? (Gotta stay sort of on topic) Last night the clouds parted for a few minutes and I got a couple but not with my usual moon settings as I was rushed + from a deck in the backyard of the the suburbs with light pollution.


Yeah, I may give it a go. I tried the blood moon last year (February, I think) and was really pleased with the results I got.
May have a wander out tonight and see if I can find some good foreground / silhouette to try. Only slight concern is the UK is supposedly about to get battered by Storm Ciara, so may be a bit too windy!
Not with an Ra though.
You going to try again tonight? (Saturday night meant to be the peak).


----------



## YuengLinger (Feb 8, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> You actually think Canon is going to pack all that into the R6 and sell it only a few hundred more than the RP? Lol. R6 is going to be close to $3k and the R5 close to $5k. This is Canon we are talking about here...



We may not be able to correctly guess what features are going to be in which bodies...BUT, we all see how rapidly the market for FF ILC's has been shrinking. Perhaps FINALLY Canon has realized this is a fight for existence, not just market share, and that aggressive tactics are going to be needed to knock either Sony or Nikon effectively out of the race (at least for a time).

As a consumer, I look forward to more and better; however, I'm not happy about the health of this industry, nor what lower sales volumes mean to prices. But right now, we might be entering bonanza time--if we are getting ready to see an all out features war.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

miketcool said:


> Dura Ace and Hollowtech I 105’s


Last time I rode DA was in 1987 on my GF's bike, one of mine had 105 and they were virtually indistinguishable. Now there's quite the gulf.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Yeah, I may give it a go. I tried the blood moon last year (February, I think) and was really pleased with the results I got.
> May have a wander out tonight and see if I can find some good foreground / silhouette to try. Only slight concern is the UK is supposedly about to get battered by Storm Ciara, so may be a bit too windy!
> Not with an Ra though.
> You going to try again tonight? (Saturday night meant to be the peak).


We have a snow storm tonight so what I got last night might be it. I'll just sit ready in case the heavens open up for a bit. It wasn't bad at 560mm (I'm used to 400 max in the past)


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 8, 2020)

What will canon do with the remaining stock of R and RP bodies after the R5 and R6 are released? Take them to Goodwill?


----------



## Uneternal (Feb 8, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> What will canon do with the remaining stock of R and RP bodies after the R5 and R6 are released? Take them to Goodwill?


Sell them for even cheaper. I think it might be a good and aggressive tactic against Sony, cause their A7II is down to $900, probably $800 soon.
I think Canon is gonna attack that with an RP for $700 around christmas.


----------



## YuengLinger (Feb 8, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> What will canon do with the remaining stock of R and RP bodies after the R5 and R6 are released? Take them to Goodwill?


The R will still be the great camera it is today. For portraits, real-estate, still-lifes, events that don't involve much action, travel... Sold more cheaply maybe, discontinued sooner than originally planned...Good question!


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 8, 2020)

joestopper said:


> yes.
> But: why does this camera only have 20MP? Because of light capabilities? Then it has the sensor of the
> 
> 
> Here is the 3rd: Campagnolo for 20+ years ...



Because using an excellent sensor they already produce for another camera makes perfect business sense. 20MP is plenty perfect for regular use.


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?
> 
> OK, just for an amusement, I will continue with my typical Canon rant - Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for



You assume EVERYONE cares about some stupid MP race. Most people do not. Especially most full time pro level users. Cuz that is the sensor from the $6500 Professional 1DX3 going into theR6.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 8, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> What will canon do with the remaining stock of R and RP bodies after the R5 and R6 are released? Take them to Goodwill?


Who has any evidence at all that they will disappear from the lineup? Nobody.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 8, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am really not sure, what is coming with R6. Name suggests continuation of 6D line. But really? Going down from 26 to 20 mpx? Who would want that? Plastic body? No nice top OLED LCD? Does not seem to be a video centric monster (A7S competition) either?



The name suggests nothing of the sort. What do you want? R13?



-pekr- said:


> Canon is yet again going to release a camera, noone has asked for



How would you know nobody has a need or desire for this? Because you don't? ok.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> How can one tell from a video if a camera body is magnesium or something else? There must have been some audio giving some specs, so is Craig holding back additional information?


Um. I never mentioned video but I would guess that assumption is being made due to the 20mp sensor


----------



## Aussie shooter (Feb 8, 2020)

Chz said:


> So how do you use filter or bracketing on fast moving subjects??
> 
> What's wrong with wanting more DR?


Can't answer sorry. I stated a few ppages back that I would make no more DR posts


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> We have a snow storm tonight so what I got last night might be it. I'll just sit ready in case the heavens open up for a bit. It wasn't bad at 560mm (I'm used to 400 max in the past)
> 
> View attachment 188585


Actually, I quite like that - much more atmospheric with the cloud. Nice shot.
No go here - been out and there is 100% cloud cover - should have expected it with the Storm coming in, I suppose


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Actually, I quite like that - much more atmospheric with the cloud. Nice shot.
> No go here - been out and there is 100% cloud cover - should have expected it with the Storm coming in, I suppose


Thanks, the clouds were really moving quickly so everything came out very amorphous plus it being Level 8 Bortle Scale light pollution.


----------



## beachcolonist (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> I'd rather Craig keep his word and the integrity of the site


What integrity? You think this site has integrity? I don't what to know who you look to for news.


----------



## beachcolonist (Feb 8, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> We can snicker at others' impatience. Some of us are patient until the product is available. Meanwhile, take a lesson from nature and relax. This tree existed 4000 years before a photo or video was shown. Did it happen? Of course. For any curious > About the Big Kahuna redwood
> 
> View attachment 188569


A little expert sharpening and you'd have something.


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

beachcolonist said:


> What integrity? You think this site has integrity? I don't what to know who you look to for news.


I do not come here for news. That settled, I did go to Google to research countless posts by beachcolonist on various forums and sites spewing vitriol, stirring chaos and generally being disagreeable. I pity you.


----------



## unfocused (Feb 8, 2020)

beachcolonist said:


> A little expert sharpening and you'd have something.


I hope you are joking, because otherwise that's incredibly rude.


----------



## Tremotino (Feb 8, 2020)

joestopper said:


> Here is the 3rd: Campagnolo for 20+ years ...


+1 for campagnolo and colnago


----------



## snappy604 (Feb 8, 2020)

Would be neat to play with IBIS and my 180 macro. Dont always use a tripod


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Anyone shooting the Snow Moon tonight? Maybe with an Ra? (Gotta stay sort of on topic) Last night the clouds parted for a few minutes and I got a couple but not with my usual moon settings as I was rushed + from a deck in the backyard of the the suburbs with light pollution.



I have a Meade ETX 125 I did some shots 2 days ago, plus with my 70-200 2.8 on my M50. Did some video a few days before that.

Snow moon (and blue moon) is really no big event to photograph. With the naked eye it may look a little noticeably bigger. But when you photograph, it makes no difference because you can always enlarge it or use a longer focal length.

Besides, full moons are not fun to look at. They look so flat. It's more fun to look at shadows of craters during the moon phases. Or watching/photographing an eclipse. 

I'm sure most of you guys already know this.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

Tremotino said:


> +1 for campagnolo and colnago



That looks almost like my color scheme. I have a Pinarello.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Last time I rode DA was in 1987 on my GF's bike, one of mine had 105 and they were virtually indistinguishable. Now there's quite the gulf.



Probably still nothing to notice. Just the weight, looks (the finish).


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 8, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> You actually think Canon is going to pack all that into the R6 and sell it only a few hundred more than the RP? Lol. R6 is going to be close to $3k and the R5 close to $5k. This is Canon we are talking about here...



The RP is getting phased out. And yes. You will have a $1500-$1800 Canon MILC with IBIS because of this: 









Sony Alpha a7 III


Alpha a7 III 24MP UHD 4K Mirrorless Digital Camera (Body Only)




www.adorama.com





And that certainly is not the R5. The R5 is a 5D body line equivalent. It will be be priced like a 5D body. That's about $3500-$3800. The HIGH MP model might be $5000ish, but I still see that one under $4000 as well. Just like the 5DS and 5DSR

You need to go and read more up on what Canon has been hinting at for the last couple years.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Actually, I quite like that - much more atmospheric with the cloud. Nice shot.
> No go here - been out and there is 100% cloud cover - should have expected it with the Storm coming in, I suppose



Yeah, I was going to add in my last post that having some clouds in there is much better than just looking at a plain boring shot of a full moon with a totally black background.

A couple of days ago the moon was just coming over the houses across the street just before the sun set. I got shots with the houses and the change in sky color (red to blue to kinda gray) with the moon. And while taking the shots, I thought: "the moon will be in this same spot 110 mins later on Snow moon day, and it'll just be a boring black sky".


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

beachcolonist said:


> What integrity? You think this site has integrity? I don't what to know who you look to for news.



why are you here?


----------



## scyrene (Feb 8, 2020)

Jethro said:


> Except I think IBIS is about to become a standard feature, at least in new R series bodies.



We'll see. There was a rumour a way back about an ultra-budget R body, even cheaper than the RP. I can't see that getting IBIS. Canon is very good at making stripped-down budget models for the most price-sensitive segment of the market. Even if the bottom is falling out of camera sales in general, they could still take that approach.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Please, you wouldn't want a hairy boudoir shoot, that's just uncivilized!


Well, since I am a boomer....


----------



## scyrene (Feb 8, 2020)

Pape said:


> If new sensor gives 1 stop more high iso performance



Not physically possible by all accounts?


----------



## scyrene (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Anyone shooting the Snow Moon tonight? Maybe with an Ra? (Gotta stay sort of on topic) Last night the clouds parted for a few minutes and I got a couple but not with my usual moon settings as I was rushed + from a deck in the backyard of the the suburbs with light pollution.



What's special about the moon tonight? Light pollution shouldn't make a difference, unless you're shooting wide/landscape shots with the moon. And the Ra wouldn't produce a better result fwiw (if I'm missing some humour, forgive me).


----------



## scyrene (Feb 8, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> Would be neat to play with IBIS and my 180 macro. Dont always use a tripod



I'm sure IBIS will help, but it's worth remembering that it's less effective with longer focal lengths. Ideally Canon would release an IS 180 (or 200) macro lens, but I won't hold my breath...


----------



## dwarven (Feb 8, 2020)

beachcolonist said:


> A little expert sharpening and you'd have something.



If you're going to be an idiot on the internet you should think about making your username less conspicuous so people don't have a mountain of evidence to pull from.


----------



## Optics Patent (Feb 8, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I have a Meade ETX 125 I did some shots 2 days ago, plus with my 70-200 2.8 on my M50. Did some video a few days before that.
> 
> Snow moon (and blue moon) is really no big event to photograph. With the naked eye it may look a little noticeably bigger. But when you photograph, it makes no difference because you can always enlarge it or use a longer focal length.
> 
> ...



Amen. These moon nicknames have been invented in the last 10 years as Internet Clickbait. Ultra super mega blood Moon


----------



## slclick (Feb 8, 2020)

scyrene said:


> What's special about the moon tonight? Light pollution shouldn't make a difference, unless you're shooting wide/landscape shots with the moon. And the Ra wouldn't produce a better result fwiw (if I'm missing some humour, forgive me).


I don't know, I'm very new at this moon thing, being a CR member doesn't mean I'm a lunar shooter. I just looked up a list of Super Moons and this was listed as an also ran. I also have a 1.4 tc now so trying my luck with 560mm. It's a good target for that sort of thing. I enjoy it, despite the ridicule by 'better and more informed' photographers you'll read about on certain photo forums.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> I don't know, I'm very new at this moon thing, being a CR member doesn't mean I'm a lunar shooter. I just looked up a list of Super Moons and this was listed as an also ran. I also have a 1.4 tc now so trying my luck with 560mm. It's a good target for that sort of thing. I enjoy it, despite the ridicule by 'better and more informed' photographers you'll read about on certain photo forums.



Nobody is ridiculing you. If I came off that way, I wasn't trying to. If anything, I thought you knew something I didn't (since you mentioned possibly using the Ra). Sorry.


----------



## snappy604 (Feb 8, 2020)

scyrene said:


> I'm sure IBIS will help, but it's worth remembering that it's less effective with longer focal lengths. Ideally Canon would release an IS 180 (or 200) macro lens, but I won't hold my breath...



Fair, but every bit helps 

Surprised how many new rf lenses already, never know..


----------



## AlanF (Feb 8, 2020)

slclick said:


> Anyone shooting the Snow Moon tonight? Maybe with an Ra? (Gotta stay sort of on topic) Last night the clouds parted for a few minutes and I got a couple but not with my usual moon settings as I was rushed + from a deck in the backyard of the the suburbs with light pollution.


Thanks for the heads up. Rushed outside and did a qucik snap. Actually about 20 and I must learn how to stack them.


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 8, 2020)

unfocused said:


> I hope you are joking, because otherwise that's incredibly rude.



Dont engage him. Every comment he has posted that I've seen has either been utterly absurd or pure trolling.


----------



## vjlex (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Rushed outside and did a qucik snap. Actually about 20 and I must learn how to stack them.
> View attachment 188589


Nice shot!
I randomly decided to take some shots of the full moon last night too. I used the telescope I have and an EF adapter. Not completely sure why, but I couldn't get a completely steady shot. Not sure if it was because of my tripod, or that my balcony isn't sturdy, or because it was close to a whirring outside AC unit, but the image would hardly quit shaking.

It just reminded me how much of a pain it is to use the 5D4 for certain shots because there is no flip screen. Really looking forward to finally having a flip screen and IBIS for these kind of shots.


----------



## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Rushed outside and did a qucik snap. Actually about 20 and I must learn how to stack them.
> View attachment 188589


That doesn't look flat at all to me! Good shot


----------



## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Dont engage him. Every comment he has posted that I've seen has either been utterly absurd or pure trolling.


He's PNG


----------



## Go Wild (Feb 9, 2020)

Damn, no more news about the R5? Getting pretty anxious!!!!


----------



## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Nice shot!
> I randomly decided to take some shots of the full moon last night too. I used the telescope I have and an EF adapter. Not completely sure why, but I couldn't get a completely steady shot. Not sure if it was because of my tripod, or that my balcony isn't sturdy, or because it was close to a whirring outside AC unit, but the image would hardly quit shaking.
> 
> It just reminded me how much of a pain it is to use the 5D4 for certain shots because there is no flip screen. Really looking forward to finally having a flip screen and IBIS for these kind of shots.


I was dressed up in my DJ and on the way to a reception so I just grabbed the nearest camera and telephoto and pointed it hand held at the moon with a shutter speed of about 1/1250, iso 640 and f/8. It always seems to give reasonable images with any of my various bodies and lenses.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 9, 2020)

slclick said:


> That doesn't look flat at all to me! Good shot



Look at the very bottom edge of his photo. See the shadow in the craters? The lack of those shadow is what I mean by flat.

Now look at the ones below, where it's not a full moon. These are more interesting to look at. The shadows along the edge of day/night makes it more interesting to look at:


----------



## Juangrande (Feb 9, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Understand not wanting to post the image without permission but can you at least share how it looks. Does it look like the R or RP or is there a design change?


Did you not read his description? He mentioned how it was different materials from the R5 and more round than the R/RP


----------



## Juangrande (Feb 9, 2020)

ronno said:


> So someone sent a pic and then said not to publish it?
> Why even mention it then? Just for traffic I guess.


He did mention for you how it was different and to let you know it is for real, just wasn’t allowed to show pictures yet.


----------



## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Look at the very bottom edge of his photo. See the shadow in the craters? The lack of those shadow is what I mean by flat.
> 
> Now look at the ones below, where it's not a full moon. These are more interesting to look at. The shadows along the edge of day/night makes it more interesting to look at:


Thanks, every little bit of experience helps.


----------



## NorskHest (Feb 9, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> It was substantial enough for you to comment.


Ziiiiiing


----------



## unfocused (Feb 9, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Dont engage him. Every comment he has posted that I've seen has either been utterly absurd or pure trolling.


Yeah, I know. But, I can't resist calling out people who act like jerks about other peoples' images.


----------



## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

slclick said:


> Anyone shooting the Snow Moon tonight? Maybe with an Ra? (Gotta stay sort of on topic) Last night the clouds parted for a few minutes and I got a couple but not with my usual moon settings as I was rushed + from a deck in the backyard of the the suburbs with light pollution.



I don't know if I feel like braving the cold to try tonight or not. Attached image is from August 2018 using the 5Ds on a Celestron EdgeHD 8" SCT telescope which is 2032mm f/10. Not quite as sharp as I would like because of atmospheric disturbance, which may or may not be less tonight due to the cold. It's surprising just how turbulent the atmosphere usually is. Though I have had one viewing session early in the morning when the stars barely twinkled in the scope and Orion Nebula was like glass, like viewing a monitor.

Any way in JPEG this looks a bit noisy even with 'max quality' 10 compression, but the TIFF is clean. Thought I would mention that lest this start a high ISO or DR argument


----------



## Pape (Feb 9, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Not physically possible by all accounts?


I dont have idea ,new kind of tech maybe? just what rumours say about 1dx3 sensor.
Maybe no more DR penalty from dpaf ,wouldnt it improve high isos too?


----------



## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Nice shot!
> I randomly decided to take some shots of the full moon last night too. I used the telescope I have and an EF adapter. Not completely sure why, but I couldn't get a completely steady shot. Not sure if it was because of my tripod, or that my balcony isn't sturdy, or because it was close to a whirring outside AC unit, but the image would hardly quit shaking.



Almost certainly the atmosphere. You don't mention what telescope but telescopes tend to be slow relative to fast EF primes leading to longer shutter times. The exposure may have seemed fine for a camera on a tripod but atmospheric disturbance can soften shots with sub-1000/sec times, depending on magnification.

I've tried shooting video of the moon through a telescope and it's nothing but waves across the image, like looking at a mirage in the desert.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 9, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I don't know if I feel like braving the cold to try tonight or not. Attached image is from August 2018 using the 5Ds on a Celestron EdgeHD 8" SCT telescope which is 2032mm f/10. Not quite as sharp as I would like because of atmospheric disturbance, which may or may not be less tonight due to the cold. It's surprising just how turbulent the atmosphere usually is. Though I have had one viewing session early in the morning when the stars barely twinkled in the scope and Orion Nebula was like glass, like viewing a monitor.
> 
> Any way in JPEG this looks a bit noisy even with 'max quality' 10 compression, but the TIFF is clean. Thought I would mention that lest this start a high ISO or DR argument
> 
> View attachment 188590



That looks real sharp! 
A much better example than the 2 I posted from wikipedia in my last post!


----------



## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> That looks real sharp!
> A much better example than the 2 I posted from wikipedia in my last post!



Thank you! They're sharp for the challenges of shooting through the atmosphere at 2032mm. But looking at the full resolution RAW or TIFF, compared to a regular Earth bound shot, it's apparent that the atmosphere was a limiting factor.

Haven't tried stacking the moon to compensate yet.


----------



## Max TT (Feb 9, 2020)

Where do you see the R6 fitting in the line up. Is it going to be between the RP and the R. Or between the R and R5? Or worst case beneath the RP? 

The reduced megapixels and body material has me a little worried about what kind of camera this is going to be. I need a Sony A7III but a Canon version with its specs and capabilities. Which is what I am hoping the R6 is. 

I am not sure how I feel about the R6 rumors. What does lack of Magnesium Alloy body say about the Camera? Is this going to affect the weather sealing?

Is it that Canon are trying to reduce hardware cost so that they can add other great features and yet maintain reasonable price. Or are they just giving IBIS but crippling other features so that we will have to wait for R7 and R8 etc etc 

Honestly, I just want an updated version of the current EOS R with IBIS, no crop 4K and Dual Slots at price that’s competitive with the A7III and Z6.


----------



## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

Max C said:


> Is this going to affect the weather sealing?



It couldn't be worse than Sony's


----------



## reef58 (Feb 9, 2020)

By all accounts the RF mount will consist of serveral models among varying price points. I am not sure why people use they term crippled to describe a camera at a lower price point? I don't know quite what to expect other than the rumors I have read on this site. I am willing to wager the $1000 camera will not have all of the features the $5000 camera has. That is not crippling the camera, That is giving someone a reason to buy the $5000 camera, otherwise they would only make one model. 



Max C said:


> Where do you see the R6 fitting in the line up. Is it going to be between the RP and the R. Or between the R and R5? Or worst case beneath the RP?
> 
> The reduced megapixels and body material has me a little worried about what kind of camera this is going to be. I need a Sony A7III but a Canon version with its specs and capabilities. Which is what I am hoping the R6 is.
> 
> ...


----------



## -pekr- (Feb 9, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> You assume EVERYONE cares about some stupid MP race. Most people do not. Especially most full time pro level users. Cuz that is the sensor from the $6500 Professional 1DX3 going into theR6.



Then go and buy two, one instead of me. Canon simply thinks it is a good idea to refurbish already used sensor again. But this time, from a very specialised camera, which 1DXIII is. For general user (as you suggest "most ppl do not"), going down from 26mpx to 20mpx, is not a good message, whatever you might think.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 9, 2020)

Very good quality moon, and probably because it was shot through the telescope.
But in terms of the DR and settings, I've shot the moon at ISO 100 many times, the moon is bright enough so you only need ISO 100 and still quite fast shutter speed around 1/500 or so, f2.8-3.5. That is, with the moon alone, you don't need high ISO and you don't struggle with the DR. So no, there's no point in starting a high ISO or DR argument...



dtaylor said:


> Any way in JPEG this looks a bit noisy even with 'max quality' 10 compression, but the TIFF is clean. Thought I would mention that lest this start a high ISO or DR argument
> 
> View attachment 188590


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## Joules (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Rushed outside and did a qucik snap. Actually about 20 and I must learn how to stack them.


Autostakkert 3 is great for stacking images of the moon. Many people use it for Lucky Imaging stacks, but I use it for simple stills stacks like yours and have been pretty Happy. The default settings work well. It can fail though, if the position of the moon within the frame differs a lot between images. 

The result will look slightly blurry initially, but some deconvolution with PS SmartSharpen or a more dedicated tool helps clean that up nicely.



shunsai said:


> Not sure if it was because of my tripod, or that my balcony isn't sturdy, or because it was close to a whirring outside AC unit, but the image would hardly quit shaking.


What looks like movement in images of the moon can also be caused by the turbulence in the atmosphere or air around you. Shooting the moon when it's near the horizon or shooting through an open window for example will result in much worse 'shake'.


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## scyrene (Feb 9, 2020)

slclick said:


> I don't know, I'm very new at this moon thing, being a CR member doesn't mean I'm a lunar shooter. I just looked up a list of Super Moons and this was listed as an also ran. I also have a 1.4 tc now so trying my luck with 560mm. It's a good target for that sort of thing. I enjoy it, despite the ridicule by 'better and more informed' photographers you'll read about on certain photo forums.



Fair enough! I always enjoy(ed) testing a new long lens/higher res sensor on the moon as I progressed, it's a good touchstone target


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## scyrene (Feb 9, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Thank you! They're sharp for the challenges of shooting through the atmosphere at 2032mm. But looking at the full resolution RAW or TIFF, compared to a regular Earth bound shot, it's apparent that the atmosphere was a limiting factor.
> 
> Haven't tried stacking the moon to compensate yet.



Stacking can make a huge difference, although that shot was great anyhow. I always found the software fiddly though.


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## scyrene (Feb 9, 2020)

Pape said:


> I dont have idea ,new kind of tech maybe? just what rumours say about 1dx3 sensor.
> Maybe no more DR penalty from dpaf ,wouldnt it improve high isos too?



I'm no expert, but what people (who seem to know what they're talking about) say is, high ISO image quality is not limited by the technology, but by physics.


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## Tremotino (Feb 9, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Then go and buy two, one instead of me. Canon simply thinks it is a good idea to refurbish already used sensor again. But this time, from a very specialised camera, which 1DXIII is. For general user (as you suggest "most ppl do not"), going down from 26mpx to 20mpx, is not a good message, whatever you might think.


For me (a general user) it is a good thing.
I'm going to buy his year a R camera. Not sure which one but if I have to choose between 45mpx and 20mpx I would always prefer 20mpx.


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## Optics Patent (Feb 9, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Very good quality moon, and probably because it was shot through the telescope.
> But in terms of the DR and settings, I've shot the moon at ISO 100 many times, the moon is bright enough so you only need ISO 100 and still quite fast shutter speed around 1/500 or so, f2.8-3.5. That is, with the moon alone, you don't need high ISO and you don't struggle with the DR. So no, there's no point in starting a high ISO or DR argument...



Bear in mind that the full moon is the same brightness as any dark rocky surface in equatorial noonday sunlight.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 9, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> Amen. These moon nicknames have been invented in the last 10 years as Internet Clickbait. Ultra super mega blood Moon



Many of them are. But many other nicknames for the full moon in certain months have ancient origins.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 9, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Nice shot!
> I randomly decided to take some shots of the full moon last night too. I used the telescope I have and an EF adapter. Not completely sure why, but I couldn't get a completely steady shot. Not sure if it was because of my tripod, or that my balcony isn't sturdy, or because it was close to a whirring outside AC unit, but the image would hardly quit shaking.
> 
> It just reminded me how much of a pain it is to use the 5D4 for certain shots because there is no flip screen. Really looking forward to finally having a flip screen and IBIS for these kind of shots.



If you are shooting through the "propwash" and thermal distortion of a heating/cooling unit you'll never get a steady shot.


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## 1Zach1 (Feb 9, 2020)

Love my RP, but I’m already having gear envy.


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## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> But in terms of the DR and settings, I've shot the moon at ISO 100 many times, the moon is bright enough so you only need ISO 100 and still quite fast shutter speed around 1/500 or so, f2.8-3.5.



If your lens or scope is that fast. The telescope I used is a 2,032mm f/10. Starting from your suggested settings (1/500 f/2.8 ISO 100) that means ISO 1600 to hold 1/500th of a second. That night I started at lower ISOs and shutter speeds but they were strongly blurred by atmospheric turbulence. 1/1000 at ISO 3200 turned out to be the best compromise.

I could have put a 300 f/4 or a 400 f/5.6 on the moon, but the magnification loss is much greater than the ISO (SNR) gain. That might not be the case for someone with, say, a 600mm f/4 and a TC.


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## Kit. (Feb 9, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Look at the very bottom edge of his photo. See the shadow in the craters? The lack of those shadow is what I mean by flat.
> 
> Now look at the ones below, where it's not a full moon. These are more interesting to look at. The shadows along the edge of day/night makes it more interesting to look at:


OK, given that photography is an art... how do we manage to get a second light source?


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## Michael Clark (Feb 9, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> Bear in mind that the full moon is the same brightness as any dark rocky surface in equatorial noonday sunlight.




Assuming the moon is directly overhead it is. If the moon is closer to the horizon then, as observed from the earth's surface, it dims in the same way that your terran rocky surface does when the sun is closer to the horizon and passing through the atmosphere at an angle.

The absolute brightness of the full moon varies due to its eccentric orbit around the earth, by the relative angle of the earth and sun to the moon, and the absolute distance from the sun to the moon (which of course also varies due to the eccentricity of the earth's orbit around the sun). It's quite measurable and more significant than many realize. When the moon is near perigee and the sun is almost directly behind the earth (full moon) as the earth is near perihelion it is almost 30% brighter (in terms of the field strength of its light falling on the earth's surface) than when the moon is at apogee when it is full and the earth is at aphelion. At farthest apogee the moon is 14% further from the earth than at closest perigee. At perihelion the earth is 3.4% closer to the sun than at aphelion. Combine all of that and when a full moon occurs at perigee when the earth is at perihelion the distance light travels from the sun to moon to earth is 147,812,750 km. When a full moon occurs at apogee when the earth is at aphelion, that total distance is 152,506,720 km.


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## tron (Feb 9, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> Any pricing info? I’m guessing $2500-$3k, too expensive as usual from Canon


Nobody will buy an RP like camera for that price. I would guess 2K tops and soon much less. Because
if someone has already lenses with IS IBIS will not offer much to so as someone will sacrifice 6Mp and much money.
They would rather get a R5... Just my opinion of course.


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## Max TT (Feb 9, 2020)

reef58 said:


> By all accounts the RF mount will consist of serveral models among varying price points. I am not sure why people use they term crippled to describe a camera at a lower price point? I don't know quite what to expect other than the rumors I have read on this site. I am willing to wager the $1000 camera will not have all of the features the $5000 camera has. That is not crippling the camera, That is giving someone a reason to buy the $5000 camera, otherwise they would only make one model.



Hey yes agreed, if it’s a $1000 entry level camera that represents an upgrade from the RP, then I can’t complain much about missing specs. And I won’t.

But if the R6 is intended to be an upgrade from the current EOS R with pricing in line with or just above the Sony A7III and it then falls short of meeting those specs on the A7III then that’s disappointing. I mean the A7III is a two year old system, if they can’t meet its minimum standards then it’s crippled.

A7III has IBIS, has Dual Slot, 4K no crop, Magnesium Alloy, 24mp etc and it’s selling for sub $2000. That should be Canons starting point. I mean if you can’t even make a camera that at least rivals a two year old Sony body, then don’t waste my time. Hence crippled.


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## Quarkcharmed (Feb 9, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> If your lens or scope is that fast. The telescope I used is a 2,032mm f/10. Starting from your suggested settings (1/500 f/2.8 ISO 100) that means ISO 1600 to hold 1/500th of a second.



Right, that's very specialised equipment. 1/500s is probably too fast, 1/250 or 1/125 will probably do as well so ISO 400 should probably work with f/10. At some point you'll see the blur in the moon but at the same time noise reduction at ISO 3200 also means some loss of detail, and there I can't tell which setting is optimal, it'll probably depend on the focal length.

I'm not into pure astrophotography as it takes specialised equipment to get cool nebula and celestial bodies shots. I'm simply shooting the moon with 70-200 f2.8.
At some point I lost interest to shoot the moon alone as it looks the same from any point on Earth with clear sky. That is you take one or two moon shots, maybe at different phases, and then what? - it'll always be the same. This was as far as I went with the moon, it was taken during a lunar eclipse and obviously totally unscientific (the eclipsed moon is in the proper position though).




Things get more interesting when you want to have some detail in the moon *and* in the foreground. With the nightscapes with the moon you're almost forced to combine 2 or more images with different exposures.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 9, 2020)

Kit. said:


> OK, given that photography is an art... how do we manage to get a second light source?



Well, you could always do what Arthur C. Clarke suggested in his novel 2010: astro-engineer the mass of Jupiter into a smaller volume until it reaches critical mass and ignites with nuclear fission at its core...


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## Optics Patent (Feb 9, 2020)

Since this site makes no effort to avoid off-topic moderation, I'll bite.

Post moderated for being off topic


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## Michael Clark (Feb 9, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> Since this site makes no effort to avoid off-topic moderation, I'll bite.
> 
> Aside from low elevations when the moon or sun will be evidently reddened, yellowed and dimmed, this effect is photographically inconsequential for most elevations in all seasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_mass_(astronomy) If the moon look white, it's as bright as I pointed out: rocky soil under blinding equatorial noontime sun.
> 
> I share the notion that the only observationally or photographically interesting differences are the size due to orbital eccentricity. Don't forget libration giving a peek around the limb and an opportunity for 3D images.



If the moon is 14% farther from the earth's surface it is not as bright, due to the area square rule.


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## Gazwas (Feb 9, 2020)

Juangrande said:


> Did you not read his description? He mentioned how it was different materials from the R5 and more round than the R/RP


Why the aggressive tone?

My comment was posted before the updated version now showing without any description.


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## PureClassA (Feb 9, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Then go and buy two, one instead of me. Canon simply thinks it is a good idea to refurbish already used sensor again. But this time, from a very specialised camera, which 1DXIII is. For general user (as you suggest "most ppl do not"), going down from 26mpx to 20mpx, is not a good message, whatever you might think.



Actually it's a fantastic idea if it's a fantastic sensor, which it absolutely is. There is far more to the 1DX3 than just its sensor. And how are we "going down from 26MP to 20MP" if this is the FIRST EVER R6? And 26-20 frankly isn't that big a difference in real world terms. And there isn't really all that huge a difference from my 30MP Eos R to my 20MP 1DX2 unless we really pixel peep a lot.

Maybe 20MP is exactly where Canon always intends to keep the R6? Nothing wrong with that. Perhaps going forward the R6 bodies will always share whatever sensor is in the 1DX (or the 1RX going forward) bodies? The EOS R and RP were temporary place holders before the grand lineup of the RF system was unveiled. Both very good and capable cameras. I only do photography work very part time, but last year I shot about $25k worth of stills jobs on sensors of 20-22MP. Everything looked amazing.

Now we've moved on from the EOS R and RP. The R line will be made of cameras specialized for different needs. Buy the EOS R5 if the R6 is "too low" for you. I just think you're erroneously trying to compare the R6 to the RP which are two different lines. One doesn't replace the other.


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## analoggrotto (Feb 9, 2020)

Canon's dedication to strong anti aliasing filters will continue, I'm sure.


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## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Canon's dedication to strong anti aliasing filters will continue, I'm sure.


Who has info on the 1DX3's AA?


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## analoggrotto (Feb 9, 2020)

slclick said:


> Who has info on the 1DX3's AA?


Not I but its pretty strong on the now-old 5D4.


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## Joules (Feb 9, 2020)

slclick said:


> Who has info on the 1DX3's AA?


Canon has some info on it. Quote from the white paper:

"A Canon first — the High Detail Low-Pass Filter does what its name suggests — breaking a single incoming light ray into 16 separate, precisely controlled rays at the sensor. In concert with the powerful DIGIC X processor, the result is enhanced subject detail and sharpness, and even less risk of moiré patterns and false colors, vs. conventional low-pass filters (which typically break a single ray into four separate rays at the sensor)"

Page 43, if you want to read the rest. Certainly a new type of filter.


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## Gazwas (Feb 9, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Canon's dedication to strong anti aliasing filters will continue, I'm sure.


Not necessarily a bad thing if done well.

I shoot with the Sony A7RIII while I wait for the Canon mirrorless cameras and I find the absence of an AA filter gives the impression of sharpness but the images easly look over sharpened due to aliasing and false colour. If you're into the super real look for something like product photography then fair enough but for people, subjects with lots of fine detail like feathers/fur and even landscape I'm not a massive fan.


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## Fast351 (Feb 9, 2020)

The pricing of the R6 is really the interesting thing to me. Obviously the R6 advances from the current R series bodies with IBIS, and a much improved frame rate, and hopefully a much improved EVF, but sacrifices MP (not sure this matters if the DR is better on the new sensor for most people) and the body appears to take a step backwards, probably to keep the pricing down. If they position the pricing somewhere between the R and the RP I think it will sell like hotcakes to prosumers like myself who don't mind spending SOME money on a cool new camera. But if they price it at $2200+, I think they're going to have a tough time getting the 80D/90D/6D users to jump to the mirrorless platform. I'm sure a marketing guru at Canon has probably already researched the crap out of this and they will position it properly in the market. 

Unless they intend to continue the R/RP lines, maybe with a better processor and EVF, and keep those as the gateway drug to the R line. 

In either case, I have been holding off my buying decision for 6 months to see what the new cameras come in at. I can wait a couple more months for this to flesh itself out.


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## VICYASA (Feb 9, 2020)

^ Pricing? 

Ok, what are some of your estimated prices for these new releases that are potentially coming that have been rumored?

The r6 based on speculated features is how much? That r5? Anyone? Anyone want to play that game?

Interested because, quite frankly, the regular consumer who is always looking for a cool new advancement camera is going to be highly interested. And with the higher fps, ibis, card slots etc., if it's a significant upgrade to the EOSR, I'll be shooting for that. Also, I'm not a video guy, are those advancements really worth it for me or people who are just still photo person? Heck, the EOS r may drop in price and we can jump on one of those or a 2nd body.

Because at its current price point, the EOS R is a helluva camera. At a lower price... even greater. And I'm not keen on spending almost 5k for a mirrorless camera, and that RF glass, for a "newer" camera that may not fit all my needs and have bells whistles I don't need.


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## reef58 (Feb 9, 2020)

Max C said:


> Hey yes agreed, if it’s a $1000 entry level camera that represents an upgrade from the RP, then I can’t complain much about missing specs. And I won’t.
> 
> But if the R6 is intended to be an upgrade from the current EOS R with pricing in line with or just above the Sony A7III and it then falls short of meeting those specs on the A7III then that’s disappointing. I mean the A7III is a two year old system, if they can’t meet its minimum standards then it’s crippled.
> 
> A7III has IBIS, has Dual Slot, 4K no crop, Magnesium Alloy, 24mp etc and it’s selling for sub $2000. That should be Canons starting point. I mean if you can’t even make a camera that at least rivals a two year old Sony body, then don’t waste my time. Hence crippled.



If you take the releases in context with Canon's statements about taking the lead and marketshare, unless they are lying then I expect the camera will be very well priced compared to the competition. That is taking Canon's words at face value though.

The Sony only shoots 10fps and 4k at 30p. Does that mean it is crippled or is it just different?


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## Joules (Feb 9, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> The r6 based on speculated features is how much? That r5? Anyone? Anyone want to play that game?


At this point you'll only be getting guesses. With the R5, Canon would offer the highest throughput and the highest video resolution available on any FF ILC stills camera. How much they charge for that depends on the impact they are aiming at.


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## VICYASA (Feb 9, 2020)

Max C said:


> Hey yes agreed, if it’s a $1000 entry level camera that represents an upgrade from the RP, then I can’t complain much about missing specs. And I won’t.
> 
> But if the R6 is intended to be an upgrade from the current EOS R with pricing in line with or just above the Sony A7III and it then falls short of meeting those specs on the A7III then that’s disappointing. I mean the A7III is a two year old system, if they can’t meet its minimum standards then it’s crippled.
> 
> A7III has IBIS, has Dual Slot, 4K no crop, Magnesium Alloy, 24mp etc and it’s selling for sub $2000. That should be Canons starting point. I mean if you can’t even make a camera that at least rivals a two year old Sony body, then don’t waste my time. Hence crippled.


Well said!!!!


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## analoggrotto (Feb 9, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Not necessarily a bad thing if done well.
> 
> I shoot with the Sony A7RIII while I wait for the Canon mirrorless cameras and I find the absence of an AA filter gives the impression of sharpness but the images easly look over sharpened due to aliasing and false colour. If you're into the super real look for something like product photography then fair enough but for people, subjects with lots of fine detail like feathers/fur and even landscape I'm not a massive fan.



Good point, maybe a weaker AA filter then. I really think thats whats robbing the 5D4 of a small degree of potential.


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## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

Getting back to off-topic, this is real moon photography by jrista whose absence I for one regret.





Moon photos


I don't know if a new or dedicated topic is warranted, but I wanted to share a very clear image of the moon I shot tonight using the Canon 6D and pre-IS 400mm f/2.8 L II w/ Canon Extender 2X II and Kenko extender 1.4x (1120mm f/8, 1/350s, ISO 800)




www.canonrumors.com


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## Optics Patent (Feb 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If the moon is 14% farther from the earth's surface it is not as bright, due to the area square rule.



That’s a common error. The point for photographic exposure is the brightness of the surface, not the apparent size of the subject. Larger is more light but not a brighter surface.


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## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> That’s a common error. The point for photographic exposure is the brightness of the surface, not the apparent size of the subject. Larger is more light but not a brighter surface.


Michael is presumably quite correctly referring to the inverse square law whereby as the moon moves further away the observed brightness will fall fall off as 1/(distance^2) because the radiated light is spread out as hits us over a larger area here.


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## Fast351 (Feb 9, 2020)

As far as pricing goes, I think if the R6 truly does come out with subpar ergonomics to the current R body (no top display, no magnesium body, smaller grip) I can only imagine that Canon is positioning it between the R and RP. Granted all the other improvements make up for it, but still, if your market for the R6 is intended to be a buyer that's going to spend more than the $$$ for the R, why not use the existing R body to create the R6? Couple that with the less MP sensor, and an as of now unknown quantity on the EVF, I think Canon is shooting for that $1500-$1800 MSRP, with a $1200 street price. 

If that's the case, that leaves a pretty big hole between it and the R5, which I fully anticipate being at least $3K based on the feature set. An upgrade to the existing R with a similar MP sensor and a faster throughput would make for an enticing choice. 

Like everyone else here though, this is purely speculation on my part. If the R6 truly comes out as a model between the current R and RP I will be kind of disappointed. I was really looking for an R type camera with improved throughput and a better EVF. Doesn't look like that's coming. Maybe I will jump on an R for a couple years and live with it's shortcomings while the RF field works itself out.


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## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Many of them are. But many other nicknames for the full moon in certain months have ancient origins.


Apparently, “The tribes of what is now the northeastern United States called this the Snow Moon or the Storm Moon because of the heavy snows that fall in this season."


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## Dexter75 (Feb 9, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> We may not be able to correctly guess what features are going to be in which bodies...BUT, we all see how rapidly the market for FF ILC's has been shrinking. Perhaps FINALLY Canon has realized this is a fight for existence, not just market share, and that aggressive tactics are going to be needed to knock either Sony or Nikon effectively out of the race (at least for a time).
> 
> As a consumer, I look forward to more and better; however, I'm not happy about the health of this industry, nor what lower sales volumes mean to prices. But right now, we might be entering bonanza time--if we are getting ready to see an all out features war.



canon doesn’t need to dominate FF MILC sales to remain on top, it’s a tiny segment of the market. The vast majority of consumers are buying APS-C cameras and canons M50 is killing it in sales in Japan. APS-C sales with the M and Rebel line is what keeps them on top, not $3k FF bodies and $3k RF lenses,


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## researcher (Feb 9, 2020)

Any info or opinions if an APSC-sensor model makes any sense for the R-series cameras?

Full frame is the big money & market-share objective in mirrorless, but I thought that APSC bodies were Canon's volume sellers, so there are probably many people out there who aren't advance or pro-shooters but have already invested in a Rebel or x0D-body and EF-S lenses.

If I'm happy enough with my T2i or 80D, and still rely heavily on my EF-S 24mm pancake, 17-55mm, and 18-200mm, do I need to give those up when I want to upgrade?

I believe the R-series cameras have a crop mode, but they are still full frame and full priced bodies aimed at a the upper-end buyers. An APSC specific body might enable Canon to address a lower budget segment, and offer a path for non-pro but frequent-enough shooters who have invested in enough EF-S lenses to want to stay in that lens ecosystem.

Thoughts?


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## Dexter75 (Feb 9, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> The RP is getting phased out. And yes. You will have a $1500-$1800 Canon MILC with IBIS because of this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Canon doesn’t care about Sony. If they did, the RP would have been $800 and the R would have been $1500


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## PureClassA (Feb 9, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> Canon doesn’t care about Sony. If they did, the RP would have been $800 and the R would have been $1500


You are mistaken. Go back and read what Canon JUST said last week on their public financial reporting


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## davo (Feb 9, 2020)

Welcome to CR Moon Talk.


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## Ozarker (Feb 9, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> Canon doesn’t care about Sony. If they did, the RP would have been $800 and the R would have been $1500


Because you know what the profit margins are.


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## Optics Patent (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Michael is presumably quite correctly referring to the inverse square law whereby as the moon moves further away the observed brightness will fall fall off as 1/(distance^2) because the radiated light is spread out as hits us over a larger area here.



To be clear, the amount of light the moon casts will follow that law, but the observed or photographed surface brightness doesn't change. Only the size changes. So the exposure doesn't change, only the size of the moon in the image.

If in doubt, imagine traveling to the moon. You'll see the disc get larger and larger, but the surface won't get brighter.


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## Optics Patent (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Apparently, “The tribes of what is now the northeastern United States called this the Snow Moon or the Storm Moon because of the heavy snows that fall in this season."



That's what the clickbait media seems to have agreed upon. You can tell when everyone is quoting each other. Not a science degree in those newsrooms. 

Once or twice every year, like clockwork, the full moon is at perigee. Not too many years ago, the media hypesters made up the term "supermoon" to sell advertisements. For a couple months before and after it's visually virtually identical in appearance.









Eclipse Review







xkcd.com


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## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> To be clear, the amount of light the moon casts will follow that law, but the observed or photographed surface brightness doesn't change. Only the size changes. So the exposure doesn't change, only the size of the moon in the image.
> 
> If in doubt, imagine traveling to the moon. You'll see the disc get larger and larger, but the surface won't get brighter.


To put what you are saying into more quantitative terms, the further away the moon is, the less the light that hits the aperture of your lens, and the number of photons falls off proportional 1/d^2. But the size of the image on your sensor also decreases proportionately to 1/d^2 so the brightness remains constant since the less light is concentrated on a smaller area.


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## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Right, that's very specialised equipment. 1/500s is probably too fast, 1/250 or 1/125 will probably do as well so ISO 400 should probably work with f/10. At some point you'll see the blur in the moon...



You would have to have an unbelievably still night for those shutter speeds to work _(edit) at 2,032mm._ In two years of owning the scope I've had one viewing session where the sky might have been that still 2-3am. No moon that night/time though. The moon's blur from motion isn't the issue even if you don't have a tracking mount.

I should try photographing the moon again on a night when it will be up around 2-3am and the weather will be clear, while it's still winter time and cold.

Was the 2nd moonscape photo yours? It was quite good.

*Note:* Some of my older 300mm and 400mm shots were made at 1/125 and 1/250 and are sharp at 1:1.


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## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Canon's dedication to strong anti aliasing filters will continue, I'm sure.



Maybe not given their announcement about the 1DX3. I'm one of the vocal minority who still wants AA filters, just very weak ones. Ideally, with IBIS and sensor dust cleaning (i.e. moving sensor), we would have the choice of AA via vibration being on or off. But I don't know if someone else (Pentax?) has a patent on that.


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## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

Dexter75 said:


> canon doesn’t need to dominate FF MILC sales to remain on top, it’s a tiny segment of the market. The vast majority of consumers are buying APS-C cameras and canons M50 is killing it in sales in Japan. APS-C sales with the M and Rebel line is what keeps them on top, not $3k FF bodies and $3k RF lenses,



No, but it would be nice to see them get back on top of FF sales. Then we could lurk Sony forums and hear how Sony is *******.


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## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> That's what the clickbait media seems to have agreed upon. You can tell when everyone is quoting each other. Not a science degree in those newsrooms.
> 
> Once or twice every year, like clockwork, the full moon is at perigee. Not too many years ago, the media hypesters made up the term "supermoon" to sell advertisements. For a couple months before and after it's visually virtually identical in appearance.
> 
> ...


As a scientist, I do regret the paucity of scientists in newsrooms, parliaments etc. However, I am not sure that a science degree is essential for the study of history. The ability to use Ngram viewer does help though. Here is the frequency of occurrence of "snow moon" in books. It appears to go back for a couple of centuries. I am not going to read all the books to look at the context.


----------



## dtaylor (Feb 9, 2020)

davo said:


> Welcome to CR Moon Talk.



Apparently the #1 feature we need in the R5 is not megapixels or dynamic range or IBIS or even sweet 4k video specs. It's automatic stacking of moon exposures.


----------



## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

I think every conjecture about the R5/6 has been made (and some asked multiple times even though it's been answered or only patience will tell) So a segue is a fine thing, especially photographically related. If it's cycling related, be sure to add a picture of your whip.

fwiw, I changed my icon to my other and more personally important to me passion. Another *ART*


----------



## BillB (Feb 9, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> ^ Pricing?
> 
> Ok, what are some of your estimated prices for these new releases that are potentially coming that have been rumored?
> 
> ...


There has been considerable discussion/guesstimates/speculation about possible R5 and R6 pricepoint earlier in this thread as well as in the huge and ongoing R5 thread.gp


----------



## Joules (Feb 9, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Apparently the #1 feature we need in the R5 is not megapixels or dynamic range or IBIS or even sweet 4k video specs. It's automatic stacking of moon exposures.


Of course you are joking. But I personally would love to see some more computational photography features build into the cameras.

Stacking increases the Signal to Noise ratio of an image and reduces the effects of a Bayer filter sensor. It also can be used to get resolution beyond what your sensor resolves in a single shot. Smartphones like my Google Pixel 3a take great advantage of that, allowing them to get results far better than what the hardware would suggest.

Especially with the high speeds rumored for the new R bodies it could be pulled off pretty seamlessly.


----------



## AaronT (Feb 9, 2020)

davo said:


> Welcome to CR Moon Talk.


Yo davo, CR is a rumours site. We also talk about our gear, and what works best in certain situations. Some of us are afflicted with GAS, and not the hot air you are spewing. You joined on Jan 11, with your trollish negativity you are welcome to leave at any time. You've probably already been banned at different sites under different names. Get a life. All this is just my humble opinion.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 9, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Apparently the #1 feature we need in the R5 is not megapixels or dynamic range or IBIS or even sweet 4k video specs. It's automatic stacking of moon exposures.



Imagine all the FlatEarthers that would buy the R5 if Canon added this to their dial like Nikon did!


----------



## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

AaronT said:


> Yo davo, CR is a rumours site. We also talk about our gear, and what works best in certain situations. Some of us are afflicted with GAS, and not the hot air you are spewing. You joined on Jan 11, with your trollish negativity you are welcome to leave at any time. You've probably already been banned at different sites under different names. Get a life. All this is just my humble opinion.
> View attachment 188597


 Ok, mine isn't quite that luminous or sharp but I've only taken a couple whacks at this. I totally get the point about full images being less interesting than phased of pleasing foreground shots.


----------



## AaronT (Feb 9, 2020)

slclick said:


> Ok, mine isn't quite that luminous or sharp but I've only taken a couple whacks at this. I totally get the point about full images being less interesting than phased of pleasing foreground shots.
> View attachment 188598


I took this on Dec 3/17 with my old 5D MKII and 100-400Land 2xTC. I took over 200 photos and stacked the best 150 or so of them. It is my best moon photo so far. I hope to do better with my 5DsR some day.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

AaronT said:


> I took this on Dec 3/17 with my old 5D MKII and 100-400Land 2xTC. I took over 200 photos and stacked the best 150 or so of them. It is my best moon photo so far. I hope to do better with my 5DsR some day.


How did you stack them?


----------



## Adelino (Feb 9, 2020)

1Zach1 said:


> Love my RP, but I’m already having gear envy.


Ditto


----------



## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

AaronT said:


> I took this on Dec 3/17 with my old 5D MKII and 100-400Land 2xTC. I took over 200 photos and stacked the best 150 or so of them. It is my best moon photo so far. I hope to do better with my 5DsR some day.


Oh, stacking


----------



## AaronT (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> How did you stack them?


I used 2 programs, PIPP and RegiStax 6. I will try over the next day to find the YouTube video that showed how to use them. I need a refresher course. The stacking does add incredible detail.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> the number of photons falls off proportional 1/d^2. But the size of the image on your sensor also decreases proportionately to 1/d^2



Correction. The angular size decreases proportionally to 1/d (approximately). The area will follow 1/d^2 though.


----------



## slclick (Feb 9, 2020)

AaronT said:


> I used 2 programs, PIPP and RegiStax 6. I will try over the next day to find the YouTube video that showed how to use them. I need a refresher course. The stacking does add incredible detail.


It does, why didn't I think of that?

I just made one click.  Live and learn.


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## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

This is one I took nearly 5 years ago with a 7DII + 300mm f/2.8 II + 2xTC III + Kenco 3xTC to give 1800mm f/17. It's one of the best phases for casting shadows.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Correction. The angular size decreases proportionally to 1/d (approximately). The area will follow 1/d^2 though.


It was correct. The number of photons going through the lens aperture falls off as 1/d^2 because the photon flux depends on a solid angle, not a 2D angle..


----------



## Optics Patent (Feb 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> As a scientist, I do regret the paucity of scientists in newsrooms, parliaments etc. However, I am not sure that a science degree is essential for the study of history. The ability to use Ngram viewer does help though. Here is the frequency of occurrence of "snow moon" in books. It appears to go back for a couple of centuries. I am not going to read all the books to look at the context.
> View attachment 188594



One wonders whether many or any were in the context of describing a particular wintertime full moon. Could be poetry and not science. Or random juxtaposition


----------



## AlanF (Feb 9, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> One wonders whether many or any were in the context of describing a particular wintertime full moon. Could be poetry and not science. Or random juxtaposition


Random juxtaposition is unlikely because the Ngram is case sensitive and Snow Moon is far more frequent than snow moon. Similarly for poetry. Two words together beginning with capital letters is usually a compound structure.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 9, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Was the 2nd moonscape photo yours? It was quite good.



Yes it's mine, thanks!



dtaylor said:


> *Note:* Some of my older 300mm and 400mm shots were made at 1/125 and 1/250 and are sharp at 1:1.



For artistic/nightscape purposes 200mm is enough, I understood the atmospheric aberrations start playing at longer focal lengths, you telescope is >2000mm.
For my purposes nything longer than 200mm will probably be an overkill unless I wanted to reproduce something like this (in)famous Peter Lik's moon shot


----------



## wanderer23 (Feb 9, 2020)

When i look at the r5 price guessing on here and on dpreview, it makes me feel most people frequenting these sites are stills shooters (which makes sense). the r5's stills specs totally make it the ~$3.5k camera that seems to be the most commonly guessed. I'd guess that as well if only looking at the photo specs. BUT the video specs.... if its 4k120p full readout, or 8k30p properly (not burst, time lapse, etc) - hard to see it being even below $6k. So something has to give on the video specs, else the price will be alot higher than $3.5k unless canon is willing to undersell the value of the specs simply to regain the mirrorless FF market (which i feel it will do anyway).

The cheapest FF 8k camera is the Z cam e2f8 which is $6k USD, and doesn't include anything - no monitor/evf, no handle/grip, no battery, etc. It's $7-8k+ just to hit the record button. The next cheapest FF 8k camera is red's monstro which cost $54.5k USD just for the brain - it's anohter $10k+ just to hit the record button. Granted, the red is very expensive for alot of other reasons than these type of specs, but just saying as a frame of reference how groundbrekaing the r5 would be if true. As far as I know, the Canon R5 will be the third FF 8k camera in the world under $75k USD?

Even if 8k is just a burst mode, and the highest resolution codec is 6k, there's a huge group of people that would think $5k+ is perfectly fair (cheap even) for 6k30p w/ DPAF. Video specs cost money. And plenty pay a huge premium for video specs - it's still a rapidly developing market whereas stills has matured. 

My guess is 8k is a burst or timelapse mode, and we end up with 6k or 4k full sensor width readout as the max video resolution. and the 60p is super35, and the 120p is 2-3x crop factor. Canon must feel it needs to hit a price that caters to the stills shooters that have been waiting for a better R. I always believe CR is correct, so guessing the video specs will have a bunch of catches to them.


----------



## Czardoom (Feb 9, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Not necessarily a bad thing if done well.
> 
> I shoot with the Sony A7RIII while I wait for the Canon mirrorless cameras and I find the absence of an AA filter gives the impression of sharpness but the images easly look over sharpened due to aliasing and false colour. If you're into the super real look for something like product photography then fair enough but for people, subjects with lots of fine detail like feathers/fur and even landscape I'm not a massive fan.


I too have had cameras with and without the AA filter and agree completely. No AA filter gives very fake, outlined detail in many cases - even with sharpness dialed down. Far more realistic looking pics when you have a filter, in my opinion.


----------



## wanderer23 (Feb 10, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> No, but it would be nice to see them get back on top of FF sales. Then we could lurk Sony forums and hear how Sony is *******.



They'll come back on top soon....I think so for two reasons:
1. 5dM4->R5 migration alone will do it....
2. Sony ignoring video shooters. They forget how important this segment is....


----------



## wanderer23 (Feb 10, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Canon's dedication to strong anti aliasing filters will continue, I'm sure.





Gazwas said:


> Not necessarily a bad thing if done well.
> 
> I shoot with the Sony A7RIII while I wait for the Canon mirrorless cameras and I find the absence of an AA filter gives the impression of sharpness but the images easly look over sharpened due to aliasing and false colour. If you're into the super real look for something like product photography then fair enough but for people, subjects with lots of fine detail like feathers/fur and even landscape I'm not a massive fan.



I'm on a a7riv waiitng for an EOS R update with good video so I can have a real hybrid camera and not need 3 bodies (go down to 2). I really dislike Sony ergonomics and color (eyeAF and DR holding me out), and I've owned quite a few models. So have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting, for something like the R5 to show up. Very excited. Not fussy whether it has a AA fliter or not. Prefer it for video, prefer not having it for stills. Can't be fussed.


----------



## Czardoom (Feb 10, 2020)

Max C said:


> Hey yes agreed, if it’s a $1000 entry level camera that represents an upgrade from the RP, then I can’t complain much about missing specs. And I won’t.
> 
> But if the R6 is intended to be an upgrade from the current EOS R with pricing in line with or just above the Sony A7III and it then falls short of meeting those specs on the A7III then that’s disappointing. I mean the A7III is a two year old system, if they can’t meet its minimum standards then it’s crippled.
> 
> A7III has IBIS, has Dual Slot, 4K no crop, Magnesium Alloy, 24mp etc and it’s selling for sub $2000. That should be Canons starting point. I mean if you can’t even make a camera that at least rivals a two year old Sony body, then don’t waste my time. Hence crippled.


Crippled is popular word among those that don't understand the first thing about business or are just Sony trolls. Sony does indeed offer a very affordable FF camera. But it comes at a cost. Weather sealing is an industry worst based on testing. Dust removal system is very poor based on many reviews. Ergonomics are awful and apparently - despite user complaints for years - is not worth spending money on improving. Exposure metering is poor based on my own experience. I have read numerous comments from photographers that they have to buy multiple copoes of their lenses until they get one that isn't very decentered. 
Having specs does not mean that they are well done specs. The only thing Sony does well is sensors and eye focus AF. They may have all the specs, but those specs are far more "crippled" than Canon's, based on my experience.


----------



## slclick (Feb 10, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> I too have had cameras with and without the AA filter and agree completely. No AA filter gives very fake, outlined detail in many cases - even with sharpness dialed down. Far more realistic looking pics when you have a filter, in my opinion.


I like the idea of a weak or moderate AA filter. Sounds like the new 1Dxiii has just that. What that means for the R5/6 is anyone's guess. Days away from knowing I hope!


----------



## Optics Patent (Feb 10, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Random juxtaposition is unlikely because the Ngram is case sensitive and Snow Moon is far more frequent than snow moon. Similarly for poetry. Two words together beginning with capital letters is usually a compound structure.



Good arguments, but until I see evidence this is all dumbing down astrology nonsense. Used by no one except clickbaiters that I have ever seen. 

Science is as beautiful as an ordinary full moon.


----------



## davo (Feb 10, 2020)

AaronT said:


> Yo davo, CR is a rumours site. We also talk about our gear, and what works best in certain situations. Some of us are afflicted with GAS, and not the hot air you are spewing. You joined on Jan 11, with your trollish negativity you are welcome to leave at any time. You've probably already been banned at different sites under different names. Get a life. All this is just my humble opinion.



Holy Crapamoly Aaron..... Just having a bit of fun. Chill dude.


----------



## AaronT (Feb 10, 2020)

davo said:


> Holy Crapamoly Aaron..... Just having a bit of fun. Chill dude.


Okay, might have over reacted. Sorry.


----------



## Pape (Feb 10, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Apparently the #1 feature we need in the R5 is not megapixels or dynamic range or IBIS or even sweet 4k video specs. It's automatic stacking of moon exposures.


RP got auto stacking for lowering noise.
Btw would be cool if you could connect many camera together to shoot same sky view same time,their ibises could fine align shots.
Home made dragonfly array


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## PureClassA (Feb 10, 2020)

We’re still doing the moon sh!t huh guys?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 10, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> We’re still doing the moon sh!t huh guys?


There's no sh!t. The moon doesn't poo.


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 10, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> There's no sh!t. The moon doesn't poo.


I smell a new thread about to happen.


----------



## Adelino (Feb 10, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> There's no sh!t. The moon doesn't poo.


No, but I've heard Uranus does.


----------



## SteveC (Feb 10, 2020)

Thread thoroughly hijacked.

Well, I'm sure that the first person who posted a moon picture didn't planet that way.


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## Joules (Feb 10, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> if its 4k120p full readout, or 8k30p properly (not burst, time lapse, etc) - hard to see it being even below $6k. So something has to give on the video specs, else the price will be alot higher than $3.5k


Neither mode will feature AF and the 120p option certainly will have a crop factor above 2. The 8K also certainly will be RAW again, with the same huge data rates we see from the 1DX III in 5.5K. Not really a problem if you got enough storage though. 



SteveC said:


> Thread thoroughly hijacked.
> 
> Well, I'm sure that the first person who posted a moon picture didn't planet that way.


At least the R5 makes for a great Moon camera  The high resolution is absolutely worth it here, as you are not going to get closer to the thing under any regular circumstances, so the only alternative for getting more detail is spending significant cash. IBIS does technically allow canceling the rotation of the earth for short intervals, eliminating that factor of blur from the images. And the high speed electronic shutter could, depending on the buffer depth, and the 8K (probably RAW) video make it possible to do high quality lucky imaging on a regular camera, without having to bother with Magic Lantern.

What? This thread isn't about the R5 either, you say? Shhhh...


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 10, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Thread thoroughly hijacked.



Has anybody expected a constructive polite on-topic discussion about IBIS in R6 for 3 days? Anybody?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Feb 10, 2020)

Joules said:


> without having to bother with Magic Lantern.



Is Magic Lantern a thing? They don't even have 5DIV from 2016, there's no any recent Canon releases. Their latest builds are from 2018. I think the project is dead


----------



## Southstorm (Feb 10, 2020)

We're still doing the moon thing right...?


----------



## jd7 (Feb 10, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Well, I'm sure that the first person who posted a moon picture didn't planet that way.


I think you're probably right. My guess is the first moon pic was just a post by some lunartic


----------



## AlanF (Feb 10, 2020)

jd7 said:


> I think you're probably right. My guess is the first moon pic was just a post by some lunartic


But at least I can spell the word.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Feb 10, 2020)

Southstorm said:


> We're still doing the moon thing right...?
> View attachment 188602


After 16 pages of discussions and we are starting to pull moonies at each other


----------



## geffy (Feb 10, 2020)

its the kind of integrity you expect from a girlfriend with that picture, its for personal use only


----------



## SecureGSM (Feb 10, 2020)

GMCPhotographics said:


> After 16 pages of discussions and we are starting to pull moonies at each other


better than pulling 10 page long pixel well capacity to photons per brain cells ratio conversations. at least moonies are pics


----------



## slclick (Feb 10, 2020)

*To those who are strict in staying on topic, I wish to apologize, as I started the moon segue. Yet in the context of CR forum history, it has been one of the more informing and polite off ramps and at least it remained within photographic boundaries. In the many years I have been here, I have seen much worse. Thanks for keeping it civil and interesting people. 

Now back to cycling and drums!*


----------



## jd7 (Feb 10, 2020)

AlanF said:


> But at least I can spell the word.


It seems my dad joke in response to SteveC may have fallen a little flat - and perhaps deservedly so!


----------



## AlanF (Feb 10, 2020)

slclick said:


> *To those who are strict in staying on topic, I wish to apologize, as I started the moon segue. Yet in the context of CR forum history, it has been one of the more informing and polite off ramps and at least it remained within photographic boundaries. In the many years I have been here, I have seen much worse. Thanks for keeping it civil and interesting people.
> 
> Now back to cycling and drums!*


Ah, they are drumsticks! I wondered whether they were special toothpicks . Actually it's been a useful thread as it has got me testing my Kenco 3xTC on the 90D's liveview. It will useful on the R6, and I am not being a lunatic. The Kenco 3x is actually better than its 2x but is reported not to AF https://www.ephotozine.com/article/kenko-teleplus-teleconverters-2x-and-3x--review-14047 However, the previous lack of AF was due to the limits of the then bodies. With the R series (and the M), these old TCs focus well and will be good with the larger pixels of the R6.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 10, 2020)

jd7 said:


> It seems my dad joke in response to SteveC may have fallen a little flat - and perhaps deservedly so!


I am not your dad either.


----------



## Uebermensch (Feb 10, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



I wonder, if "magnesium body" stands for "timeless modern classic beautiful metal exterior design" like most Fujis and Sony A7 -series - or "ugly, plastic, but tough, owing to its magnesium shell, like Canon / Nikon DSLRs"? That's an important question I'd like to know the answer to. Thank you.


----------



## slclick (Feb 10, 2020)

Uebermensch said:


> I wonder, if "magnesium body" stands for "timeless modern classic beautiful metal exterior design" like most Fujis and Sony A7 -series - or "ugly, plastic, but tough, owing to its magnesium shell, like Canon / Nikon DSLRs"? That's an important question I'd like to know the answer to. Thank you.


My bet is that it refers to the classic, tough, 5D styling, rounded edge magnesium inner skeleton bodies which are very rugged and in some peoples opinions, very handsome. Ask around, do many people think the R series is going to go the route of silver and sharp edges?


----------



## Adelino (Feb 10, 2020)

Uebermensch said:


> I wonder, if "magnesium body" stands for "timeless modern classic beautiful metal exterior design" like most Fujis and Sony A7 -series - or "ugly, plastic, but tough, owing to its magnesium shell, like Canon / Nikon DSLRs"? That's an important question I'd like to know the answer to. Thank you.


Pretty sure the second option. Canon loves their current long standing body configuration. For good reason.


----------



## djkraq (Feb 10, 2020)

Now that I sit here thinking about this about the R6 not having a top down screen and having extra dials on top makes sense. If it is going to be a video centric camera it will need more controls on it for exposure control and frame rate options. None of the "C" series cinema cameras have a top down LCD as it would be useless to video people and honestly I don't even use mine, I just look of the rear screen to confirm my settings.


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 10, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Is Magic Lantern a thing? They don't even have 5DIV from 2016, there's no any recent Canon releases. Their latest builds are from 2018. I think the project is dead



I think if I recall, ML stopped after the 5D3 (so far as 5 bodies at least). Canon never really cared for the firmware meddling but seemed to turn a blind eye to it because it was getting them positive attention in the filmmaker world. I think I read somewhere that with the new firmware on the 5d4, ML couldn't get their magic to work. Now that we have RAW capability in Canon natively, it's a moot point. What ML did do is show Canon that there was a niche desire for that RAW capacity even in Hollywood productions as small form factor and crash cams to marry into ARRI RAW in post. Canon responded by giving Hollywood a native in camera capacity with the 1DX3 and I'd bet in MILCs to come (as we are still unsure on the R5 at this moment)


----------



## Kit. (Feb 10, 2020)

Uebermensch said:


> I wonder, if "magnesium body" stands for "timeless modern classic beautiful metal exterior design" like most Fujis and Sony A7 -series


I don't see why "magnesium body" should mean "obsolete approach to camera ergonomics".


----------



## SteveC (Feb 10, 2020)

jd7 said:


> It seems my dad joke in response to SteveC may have fallen a little flat - and perhaps deservedly so!



The word "lunatic" (without the "r") actually does derive, ultimately, from "luna" for moon; it was believed at one time in the past that some forms of insanity were tied to the moon.

So--depending on how you look at it--it either wasn't a pun at all, or it was one with a great deal of irony built in. (I chose to look at it in the latter way.)


----------



## Pape (Feb 10, 2020)

There could be dog sized lunar ticks cause they never went back there


----------



## jeffa4444 (Feb 10, 2020)

Hopefully Canon has learnt from the EOS R. Some things on this camera just plain annoy, the touch screen that moves your focus point if your nose touches it, the badly positioned Touch Bar (bring back the joy stick) or the back button focus not falling properly where it should be. No problems with size or weight but the ergonomics were a step backwards for Canon. Yes you can disable the Touch Bar or the screen but what's the point of them disabled. 

I will need a lot of convincing if the EOS R5 is a replacement for the 5DS. In typical 5D layout its pretty hard to beat in terms of layout.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 10, 2020)

SteveC said:


> The word "lunatic" (without the "r") actually does derive, ultimately, from "luna" for moon; it was believed at one time in the past that some forms of insanity were tied to the moon.
> 
> So--depending on how you look at it--it either wasn't a pun at all, or it was one with a great deal of irony built in. (I chose to look at it in the latter way.)


I do think that everyone knows it was a pun derived from luna, and it was without any irony.


----------



## AEWest (Feb 10, 2020)

jeffa4444 said:


> Hopefully Canon has learnt from the EOS R. Some things on this camera just plain annoy, the touch screen that moves your focus point if your nose touches it, the badly positioned Touch Bar (bring back the joy stick) or the back button focus not falling properly where it should be. No problems with size or weight but the ergonomics were a step backwards for Canon. Yes you can disable the Touch Bar or the screen but what's the point of them disabled.
> 
> I will need a lot of convincing if the EOS R5 is a replacement for the 5DS. In typical 5D layout its pretty hard to beat in terms of layout.



That is why I never buy version 1.0 of any tech item! There are almost always bugs and compromises that tend to get sorted out by version 2.0. I don't need to be on the bleeding edge.


----------



## BurningPlatform (Feb 10, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I think if I recall, ML stopped after the 5D3 (so far as 5 bodies at least). Canon never really cared for the firmware meddling but seemed to turn a blind eye to it because it was getting them positive attention in the filmmaker world. I think I read somewhere that with the new firmware on the 5d4, ML couldn't get their magic to work. Now that we have RAW capability in Canon natively, it's a moot point. What ML did do is show Canon that there was a niche desire for that RAW capacity even in Hollywood productions as small form factor and crash cams to marry into ARRI RAW in post. Canon responded by giving Hollywood a native in camera capacity with the 1DX3 and I'd bet in MILCs to come (as we are still unsure on the R5 at this moment)


ML is still alive although they have not produced "official builds" lately. There seem to be a bunch of experimental projects still going on and experimental builds popping up every now and then. For stills, I used to enjoy their alternate line HDR feature on my late 5 D mark II.


----------



## navastronia (Feb 10, 2020)

jeffa4444 said:


> Hopefully Canon has learnt from the EOS R. Some things on this camera just plain annoy, *the touch screen that moves your focus point if your nose touches it*, the badly positioned Touch Bar (bring back the joy stick) or the back button focus not falling properly where it should be. No problems with size or weight but the ergonomics were a step backwards for Canon. Yes you can disable the Touch Bar or the screen but what's the point of them disabled.
> 
> I will need a lot of convincing if the EOS R5 is a replacement for the 5DS. In typical 5D layout its pretty hard to beat in terms of layout.



Since you claim that you don't want to solve the problem by disabling the touchscreen, I think what you're instead suggesting is that Canon develop a touchscreen that can tell a finger from a nose.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Feb 10, 2020)

Uebermensch said:


> I wonder, if "magnesium body" stands for "timeless modern classic beautiful metal exterior design" like most Fujis and Sony A7 -series - or "ugly, plastic, but tough, owing to its magnesium shell, like Canon / Nikon DSLRs"? That's an important question I'd like to know the answer to. Thank you.


I think standard canon styling is what we would be expecting. I also think most would agree with you that Fuji cameras look pretty shmick. Not so sure many would agree that Sony fit that description though.


----------



## jamesfrmphilyy (Feb 10, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> We can snicker at others' impatience. Some of us are patient until the product is available. Meanwhile, take a lesson from nature and relax. This tree existed 4000 years before a photo or video was shown. Did it happen? Of course. For any curious > About the Big Kahuna redwood
> 
> View attachment 188569


does the tree have IBIS ??????


----------



## Joules (Feb 10, 2020)

Kit. said:


> I don't see why "magnesium body" should mean "obsolete approach to camera ergonomics".


Seriously. I like the look of my Pentax ME Super, which is a tiny film camera. But picking that thing up makes me appreciate the 80D a lot, and even the 600D (T3i) feels nice in comparison. There's nothing wrong with some curves. And especially on modern cameras, the classic look just feels like some silly statement to me.

I can see why people like the retro style, and I do think the look of a camera matters. The look of Nikons DSLR for example runs me the wrong way. But the ergonomics Canon has going on their DSLR are not worth being compromised for some aesthetics that make the camera seem like something it isn't in my opinion. If they are going to change what the RF lineup looks like, I hope making it more ancient and silver is far down the priority list.


----------



## TMACIOSZEK (Feb 10, 2020)

So are we saying the R5 will not have IBIS but the R6 will?


----------



## scyrene (Feb 10, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Ah, they are drumsticks! I wondered whether they were special toothpicks . Actually it's been a useful thread as it has got me testing my Kenco 3xTC on the 90D's liveview. It will useful on the R6, and I am not being a lunatic. The Kenco 3x is actually better than its 2x but is reported not to AF https://www.ephotozine.com/article/kenko-teleplus-teleconverters-2x-and-3x--review-14047 However, the previous lack of AF was due to the limits of the then bodies. With the R series (and the M), these old TCs focus well and will be good with the larger pixels of the R6.



Thanks for bringing this to my attention!


----------



## slclick (Feb 10, 2020)

TMACIOSZEK said:


> So are we saying the R5 will not have IBIS but the R6 will?


How did you come up with this?


----------



## TMACIOSZEK (Feb 10, 2020)

slclick said:


> How did you come up with this?


I didn't come up with anything. I'm asking a question. The video in reference talks only of the R6, no mention of the R5. And it sounds like you have zero information to offer to the conversation, so why did you bother to chime in?


----------



## slclick (Feb 10, 2020)

TMACIOSZEK said:


> I didn't come up with anything. I'm asking a question. The video in reference talks only of the R6, no mention of the R5. And it sounds like you have zero information to offer to the conversation, so why did you bother to chime in?



OK, let's start over with a kinder more gentler approach. First off my post to you was not combatative, ok? It was a simple question wondering what information you based your question upon. 

This being the R6 IBIS thread is probably why there isn't talk of the R5, which does not preclude it not NOT having that feature, it's just at this point not all the facts are known. Your post suggested you had something. Sorry you took it the completely wrong way. Plus, are there rules about chiming in? No, my friend, there are not.


----------



## jd7 (Feb 10, 2020)

SteveC said:


> The word "lunatic" (without the "r") actually does derive, ultimately, from "luna" for moon; it was believed at one time in the past that some forms of insanity were tied to the moon.
> 
> So--depending on how you look at it--it either wasn't a pun at all, or it was one with a great deal of irony built in. (I chose to look at it in the latter way.)


Yep, “lunatic” does derive from “luna”. For the record, since a few people reacted to my earlier post, I added the “r” to give a made up word (lunartic) because my intention was to not convey the first person to post a moon shot in the thread was mentally unstable, but to convey the person was mad (in the sense of enthusiastic) about the moon - in the context of SteveC’s use of the word “planet”. OK, I’m letting this go now


----------



## Baron_Karza (Feb 10, 2020)

People get so easily triggered. Was there a full moon out recently?


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## slclick (Feb 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> People get so easily triggered. Was there a full moon out recently?


If you are referring to my recent interaction with tmacioszek, by asking "How did you come up with this?" perhaps he was having a bad day and I got the brunt of it, who knows. I am positive my question to him was not phrased in any negative manner. However, context and keyboards, they just don't go hand in hand.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 10, 2020)

jd7 said:


> Yep, “lunatic” does derive from “luna”. For the record, since a few people reacted to my earlier post, I added the “r” to give a made up word (lunartic) because my intention was to not convey the first person to post a moon shot in the thread was mentally unstable, but to convey the person was mad (in the sense of enthusiastic) about the moon - in the context of SteveC’s use of the word “planet”. OK, I’m letting this go now


You could have used lunaphile - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lunaphile to describe the first poster (me).


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## Optics Patent (Feb 10, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Since you claim that you don't want to solve the problem by disabling the touchscreen, I think what you're instead suggesting is that Canon develop a touchscreen that can tell a finger from a nose.



I’d welcome a reverse version for left eyed shooters (I cant see much from my right). I disabled the touch to focus feature when using the viewfinder. I had to learn to shoot a rifle from my left shoulder. I’d be willing to zoom with right hand and trigger shutter with left. I suppose I could shoot upside down and use the left thumb underneath?


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## slclick (Feb 10, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> I’d welcome a reverse version for left eyed shooters (I cant see much from my right). I disabled the touch to focus feature when using the viewfinder. I had to learn to shoot a rifle from my left shoulder. I’d be willing to zoom with right hand and trigger shutter with left. I suppose I could shoot upside down and use the left thumb underneath?


I wonder if people with this situation could set the touchscreen for 1/3 of the area such as the right or left only this would be helpful. I know it helped me on the M5 and until then I would be throwing my shots off right and left. Pun intended?


----------



## navastronia (Feb 10, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> I’d welcome a reverse version for left eyed shooters (I cant see much from my right). I disabled the touch to focus feature when using the viewfinder. I had to learn to shoot a rifle from my left shoulder. I’d be willing to zoom with right hand and trigger shutter with left. I suppose I could shoot upside down and use the left thumb underneath?



By "reverse version," do you mean a camera that's, like . . . flipped? Like the grip and trigger are on your left hand? Whether you're serious or joking, as a fellow left-eyed shooter, I have gotten used to it over time, although it definitely inhibits me from taking the classic "mirror selfie" while looking through the viewfinder with half my face visible


----------



## Jethro (Feb 11, 2020)

jeffa4444 said:


> Hopefully Canon has learnt from the EOS R. Some things on this camera just plain annoy, the touch screen that moves your focus point if your nose touches it, the badly positioned Touch Bar (bring back the joy stick) or the back button focus not falling properly where it should be. No problems with size or weight but the ergonomics were a step backwards for Canon. *Yes you can disable the Touch Bar or the screen but what's the point of them disabled*.
> 
> I will need a lot of convincing if the EOS R5 is a replacement for the 5DS. In typical 5D layout its pretty hard to beat in terms of layout.


You can also just use the right hand side of the touch-screen, which I do and have no problems with nose-clicking at all. They significantly improved the touchscreen AF selection in one of the firmware updates last year, and if you haven't tried it since then, I'd recommend giving it another go. The touch bar isn't great, but after you get used to engaging it (which took me a while), it's fine for simple things like magnification.


----------



## Optics Patent (Feb 11, 2020)

slclick said:


> I wonder if people with this situation could set the touchscreen for 1/3 of the area such as the right or left only this would be helpful. I know it helped me on the M5 and until then I would be throwing my shots off right and left. Pun intended?



We can, but the reality is that our nose is on the screen and right eye shooters nose is to the side.


----------



## slclick (Feb 11, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> We can, but the reality is that our nose is on the screen and right eye shooters nose is to the side.


Sounds like a candidate for a Quattro! But seriously though, you set the touchscreen for only the left third active and hit your AF spots with your left thumb.Your nose activates nothing. But as always, I am wrong and in 3...2..1... someone will point out how.


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 11, 2020)

Just as a follow up


----------



## Rule556 (Feb 11, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> I’d welcome a reverse version for left eyed shooters (I cant see much from my right). I disabled the touch to focus feature when using the viewfinder. I had to learn to shoot a rifle from my left shoulder. I’d be willing to zoom with right hand and trigger shutter with left. I suppose I could shoot upside down and use the left thumb underneath?



I‘m in the same boat, left eye is way too dominant to switch. I just turned off the touch screen and use the dpad. It’s not ideal, but I’m no pro, so it works for me. All of the other features make up for it for me, although a joystick would sure be nice.


----------



## Rule556 (Feb 11, 2020)

slclick said:


> I wonder if people with this situation could set the touchscreen for 1/3 of the area such as the right or left only this would be helpful. I know it helped me on the M5 and until then I would be throwing my shots off right and left. Pun intended?



For me it works okay in landscape, but my nose changes the focus point in vertical way to easily. It’s super frustrating. Turning the screen off and using the dpad is my move.


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> That’s a common error. The point for photographic exposure is the brightness of the surface, not the apparent size of the subject. Larger is more light but not a brighter surface.



In terms of the field strength of the light falling on a square meter of the earth, it is brighter because the light source is larger. My previous comment clearly indicated that was the measure I was using.


----------



## Optics Patent (Feb 11, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> In terms of the field strength of the light falling on a square meter of the earth, it is brighter because the light source is larger. My previous comment clearly indicated that was the measure I was using.



I missed that and was replying on the assumption that we were discussing photographic exposures and not how brightly lit the ground was.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Feb 11, 2020)

Jethro said:


> You can also just use the right hand side of the touch-screen, which I do and have no problems with nose-clicking at all. They significantly improved the touchscreen AF selection in one of the firmware updates last year, and if you haven't tried it since then, I'd recommend giving it another go. The touch bar isn't great, but after you get used to engaging it (which took me a while), it's fine for simple things like magnification.


I still feel like the EOS R was a rushed, compromised camera and Im hoping Canon fix the issues in the EOS R5 & R6. I spent two hours with a Canon Japan engineer last October going through the pros & cons of the C700 and at the back end of this we discussed the EOS R / 5D MKIV. He made loads of notes and we ran through the two camera with them in front of us. Im not expecting the current Touch Bar to survive.


----------



## Joe Subolefsky (Feb 11, 2020)

I have a huge nose with a contact smudge always visible on the screen but after the last update have had zero issues with the touch focus point. I cannot imagine what you guys must look like.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 11, 2020)

Joe Subolefsky said:


> I have a huge nose with a contact smudge always visible on the screen but after the last update have had zero issues with the touch focus point. I cannot imagine what you guys must look like.


Post your selfies here.


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Getting back to off-topic, this is real moon photography by jrista whose absence I for one regret.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think he abandoned using ILCs for his astro work, instead using purpose built astronomical cameras.


----------



## BeenThere (Feb 11, 2020)

jeffa4444 said:


> I still feel like the EOS R was a rushed, compromised camera and Im hoping Canon fix the issues in the EOS R5 & R6. I spent two hours with a Canon Japan engineer last October going through the pros & cons of the C700 and at the back end of this we discussed the EOS R / 5D MKIV. He made loads of notes and we ran through the two camera with them in front of us. Im not expecting the current Touch Bar to survive.


Can agree that all cameras are compromised to one degree or another. Each generation gets better (usually) and compromised based on its price point, intended purpose, and state of the art.


----------



## Kit Lens Jockey (Feb 11, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Can agree that all cameras are compromised to one degree or another. Each generation gets better (usually) and compromised based on its price point, intended purpose, and state of the art.


Ok but the EOS R was *really* compromised.  

Not a bad camera, I've used mine almost exclusively since it came out. The things it does, it does great. But I just can't help but feel I'm using kind of a third rate piece of equipment when I use it.


----------



## Nelu (Feb 11, 2020)

Joe Subolefsky said:


> I have a huge nose with a contact smudge always visible on the screen but after the last update have had zero issues with the touch focus point. I cannot imagine what you guys must look like.


I don’t believe you; let’s see the pictures of your nose!


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

researcher said:


> Any info or opinions if an APSC-sensor model makes any sense for the R-series cameras?
> 
> Full frame is the big money & market-share objective in mirrorless, but I thought that APSC bodies were Canon's volume sellers, so there are probably many people out there who aren't advance or pro-shooters but have already invested in a Rebel or x0D-body and EF-S lenses.
> 
> ...



It's called the "M" series, which is the best selling mirrorless camera system on the planet.


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

AaronT said:


> Yo davo, CR is a rumours site. We also talk about our gear, and what works best in certain situations. Some of us are afflicted with GAS, and not the hot air you are spewing. You joined on Jan 11, with your trollish negativity you are welcome to leave at any time. You've probably already been banned at different sites under different names. Get a life. All this is just my humble opinion.
> View attachment 188597



Is that the moon? Or a really badly made pepperoni pizza?


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> One wonders whether many or any were in the context of describing a particular wintertime full moon. Could be poetry and not science. Or random juxtaposition



One wonders how often some folks throw out the (ancient) baby with the (recently drawn) bathwater...


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Ah, they are drumsticks! I wondered whether they were special toothpicks . Actually it's been a useful thread as it has got me testing my Kenco 3xTC on the 90D's liveview. It will useful on the R6, and I am not being a lunatic. The Kenco 3x is actually better than its 2x but is reported not to AF https://www.ephotozine.com/article/kenko-teleplus-teleconverters-2x-and-3x--review-14047 However, the previous lack of AF was due to the limits of the then bodies. With the R series (and the M), these old TCs focus well and will be good with the larger pixels of the R6.



Assuming firmware issues don't lock up the camera. My older Kenko 2X locks up the 7DII and 5DIII/5DIV unless AFMA is totally disabled.


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I think if I recall, ML stopped after the 5D3 (so far as 5 bodies at least). Canon never really cared for the firmware meddling but seemed to turn a blind eye to it because it was getting them positive attention in the filmmaker world. I think I read somewhere that with the new firmware on the 5d4, ML couldn't get their magic to work. Now that we have RAW capability in Canon natively, it's a moot point. What ML did do is show Canon that there was a niche desire for that RAW capacity even in Hollywood productions as small form factor and crash cams to marry into ARRI RAW in post. Canon responded by giving Hollywood a native in camera capacity with the 1DX3 and I'd bet in MILCs to come (as we are still unsure on the R5 at this moment)



Being the preferred maker of crash cams can do wonders for sales numbers...


----------



## Joe Subolefsky (Feb 11, 2020)

Nelu said:


> I don’t believe you; let’s see the pictures of your nose!


My big nose jammed right against it lol


----------



## AlanF (Feb 11, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Assuming firmware issues don't lock up the camera. My older Kenko 2X locks up the 7DII and 5DIII/5DIV unless AFMA is totally disabled.


The 3x has never locked my 7DII, 5D3, 5DIV and 90D when attempting to use it unsuccessfully in mirror mode. Fortunately, mirrorless doesn't suffer from AFMA.


----------



## iamjhil (Feb 11, 2020)

So as a primary video shooter, am i supposed to be more excited for the R6 or R5?


----------



## AlanF (Feb 11, 2020)

Joe Subolefsky said:


> My big nose jammed right against it lol


You are using your right eye and it's the left-dominant-eyed who are complaining. Must be a very bright evf to need you to wear shades.


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 11, 2020)

iamjhil said:


> So as a primary video shooter, am i supposed to be more excited for the R6 or R5?



Depends on what you're shooting primarily. But we know a lot more about the R5 than the R6 right now and it may be another few months before we know more on the R6. The R5 rumored to have 4k120... R6 we dont know. Wait a few months and see what each of these cameras actually are going to be able to do, but a 45MP sensor in itself is not one I'd instantly think of for video centric needs


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

AlanF said:


> The 3x has never locked my 7DII, 5D3, 5DIV and 90D when attempting to use it unsuccessfully in mirror mode. Fortunately, mirrorless doesn't suffer from AFMA.



Yeah, newer versions of the "same" Kenko product made since around 2015 do not have the issue. Mine was purchased in 2011. Thus, it is what I consider to be an "old" Kenko TC.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 11, 2020)

iamjhil said:


> So as a primary video shooter, am i supposed to be more excited for the R6 or R5?


You have to answer that for yourself.


----------



## Joe Subolefsky (Feb 11, 2020)

AlanF said:


> You are using your right eye and it's the left-dominant-eyed who are complaining. Must be a very bright evf to need you to wear shades.



I am left eye dominant and left handed notice what side my Wimberley is set for but I learned to shoot both eyes open so I could watch the subject and surroundings. Yes it's very bright shooting snow goose blastoffs into the setting sun


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## AlanF (Feb 11, 2020)

Joe Subolefsky said:


> I am left eye dominant and left handed notice what side my Wimberley is set for but I learned to shoot both eyes open so I could watch the subject and surroundings. Yes it's very bright shooting snow goose blastoffs into the setting sun


I am right handed and left-eye dominant so noticing what side your Wimberley is set for doesn't come into it. (Handedness and eye dominance are not necessarily the same - see the meta survey https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15513026


----------



## navastronia (Feb 11, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> You have to answer that for yourself.



I disagree.

I think the other poster is asking the same thing we are all curious about, which is who and what exactly the R6 is meant for. We don't know at this time if the R6 is supposed to be a video powerhouse, but we _do_ have reason to believe that the R5 will have 8K video capture (though just what that implies about its expected use and other features remains to be seen).

It's a reasonable question, just one we don't have the answer to, yet.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 11, 2020)

I honestly don't understand why left or right eye dominance even makes a difference in photography. It does when aiming a hand gun. I am left eye dominant, but hell, I close my left eye when peeping through the viewfinder hole with my right. Some of the stuff talked about here just seems weird sometimes. Yes, if you are using a camera as a "right eyed" person you could theoretically keep the left eye open. Why, I have no idea. However, if you are using it as a "left eyed" person, the right side of the camera blocks the right eye view anyway. BTW: Did you guys know photography isn't art and that DR is more important than any thread discussion?


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 11, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I think the other poster is asking the same thing we are all curious about, which is who and what exactly the R6 is meant for. We don't know at this time if the R6 is supposed to be a video powerhouse, but we _do_ have reason to believe that the R5 will have 8K video capture (though just what that implies about its expected use and other features remains to be seen).
> 
> It's a reasonable question, just one we don't have the answer to, yet.


He asked which camera "he" should be more excited about. Only he can answer that for himself and only one that can be answered once full specs come out. It's like asking what his favorite color should be.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 11, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I honestly don't understand why left or right eye dominance even makes a difference in photography. It does when aiming a hand gun. I am left eye dominant, but hell, I close my left eye when peeping through the viewfinder hole with my right. Some of the stuff talked about here just seems weird sometimes. Yes, if you are using a camera as a "right eyed" person you could theoretically keep the left eye open. Why, I have no idea. However, if you are using it as a "left eyed" person, the right side of the camera blocks the right eye view anyway. BTW: Did you guys know photography isn't art and that DR is more important than any thread discussion?


You might not believe it, but those of us not in the USA are not accustomed to using hand guns. Anyway, there is a lot of shooting from the hip here.


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 11, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I honestly don't understand why left or right eye dominance even makes a difference in photography. It does when aiming a hand gun. I am left eye dominant, but hell, I close my left eye when peeping through the viewfinder hole with my right. Some of the stuff talked about here just seems weird sometimes. Yes, if you are using a camera as a "right eyed" person you could theoretically keep the left eye open. Why, I have no idea. However, if you are using it as a "left eyed" person, the right side of the camera blocks the right eye view anyway. BTW: Did you guys know photography isn't art and that DR is more important than any thread discussion?



If you've ever been clobbered on the sideline of an athletic field or baseline at a gym, you'll understand at least one of the purposes of shooting with both eyes open - self preservation via better situational awareness.


----------



## PureClassA (Feb 11, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I think the other poster is asking the same thing we are all curious about, which is who and what exactly the R6 is meant for. We don't know at this time if the R6 is supposed to be a video powerhouse, but we _do_ have reason to believe that the R5 will have 8K video capture (though just what that implies about its expected use and other features remains to be seen).
> 
> It's a reasonable question, just one we don't have the answer to, yet.



Which camera will likely have "more" video specs? The R5, if for no other reasonthan higher resolution mathematically affords it capabilities of 8K, which has been rumored to some extent.

Which camera seems more natively attuned to producing video? The R6 as it shares the same sensor as the 1DX3 (so far as we can tell) but we are NOT yet sure about what CPU it will employ. If we assume the Digic X also like the 1DX3, then this camera should be able to produce the same video specs as the 1DX3 including RAW 4k and RAW 5.5K sans DPAF when in RAW and/or FF mode. That said, the CROP mode for 4k on this camera would also be at 1.3x like the DX2 and DX3, which is a very negligible crop.

This would further beg the question, what sort of 4K or 1080p modes will/can we get from the 45MP sensor of the R5? That's a LOT of data to sling around, so yeah maybe 4K120 but it will come with a major crop north of 2x.

So if you are mostly shooting at 24 or 30 fps for video, then an R6 will do a splendid job, particularly if you outboard it to an Atomos Ninja V with 10 Bit 422 CLog gamma and record directly to ProRes 422 or ProResHQ.

The 1DX3 tops out at 4K60 on that 20MP sensor with a FF readout with the Digic X CPU. Can the 45MP R5 do a true FF readout with all those same modes? I wouldn't think so. Maybe some cropping. Maybe some line skipping. We dont really know yet. If it can read out the whole sensor at 4k60, then that Digic X is far more capable than the 1DX3 is letting on... which MAY be the case if it can do the same 20fps stills via electronic shutter that the 1DX3 can with less than half the pixel count.

I can say for ME that as of this moment with what limited info we have, I'm in the R6 camp as I don't need another stills centric camera. I'm much more interested in maximizing FF readout for video across the widest framerates and settings possible and that is much more likely with a 20MP sensor than a 45MP sensor. 

If massive oversampling was truly yielding significantly better results, then you'd see high MP cinema cameras. The new C500Mk2 is a 20MP very similar in size to the DX3/R6 that shoots 6K. Only time you'll see 40MP in a cinema camera is if they are building a full blown 8K model


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 11, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If you've ever been clobbered on the sideline of an athletic field or baseline at a gym, you'll understand at least one of the purposes of shooting with both eyes open - self preservation via better situational awareness.


1. So what does that have to do with left/right eye dominance?
2. What does one do when one is zoomed more in one eye or the other?
3. Did you know photography isn't art? 
4. What does any of this have to do with the R6?


----------



## Kit. (Feb 11, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I honestly don't understand why left or right eye dominance even makes a difference in photography. It does when aiming a hand gun. I am left eye dominant, but hell, I close my left eye when peeping through the viewfinder hole with my right.


I'm right eye dominant when using a handgun and "left eye dominant" when using a camera viewfinder. That's because I shoot a handgun with glasses and a camera without (and my right eye has a stronger astigmatism).


----------



## navastronia (Feb 11, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> He asked which camera "he" should be more excited about. Only he can answer that for himself and only one that can be answered once full specs come out. It's like asking what his favorite color should be.



He did literally ask that, and I'm sure you and I agree it's not a very good question. I'd like to not get hung up on his grammar.
I think what he's really asking is "which camera will offer the best video capture performance for my purposes?" and so I hope said poster enjoyed this reply by PureClassA:



PureClassA said:


> Which camera will likely have "more" video specs? The R5, if for no other reasonthan higher resolution mathematically affords it capabilities of 8K, which has been rumored to some extent.
> 
> Which camera seems more natively attuned to producing video? The R6 as it shares the same sensor as the 1DX3 (so far as we can tell) but we are NOT yet sure about what CPU it will employ. If we assume the Digic X also like the 1DX3, then this camera should be able to produce the same video specs as the 1DX3 including RAW 4k and RAW 5.5K sans DPAF when in RAW and/or FF mode. That said, the CROP mode for 4k on this camera would also be at 1.3x like the DX2 and DX3, which is a very negligible crop.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rule556 (Feb 11, 2020)

AlanF said:


> I am right handed and left-eye dominant so noticing what side your Wimberley is set for doesn't come into it. (Handedness and eye dominance are not necessarily the same - see the meta survey https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15513026



Yeah, I'm a righty with left eye dominance. I shoot rifles left handed, pistols righty with my left eye, and the same with cameras. I'm also left footed for whatever that is worth.

I'm just a very confusing human.


----------



## Rule556 (Feb 12, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I honestly don't understand why left or right eye dominance even makes a difference in photography. It does when aiming a hand gun. I am left eye dominant, but hell, I close my left eye when peeping through the viewfinder hole with my right. Some of the stuff talked about here just seems weird sometimes. Yes, if you are using a camera as a "right eyed" person you could theoretically keep the left eye open. Why, I have no idea. However, if you are using it as a "left eyed" person, the right side of the camera blocks the right eye view anyway. BTW: Did you guys know photography isn't art and that DR is more important than any thread discussion?



Well, for me it's extremely fatiguing to shoot with my right eye because my brain doesn't like to work that way. If I shut my left eye, the muscles in both eyes strain and my vision starts to suffer. If I leave my left eye open and look through the camera with my right, my brain has a hard time not mixing the images. The EVF actually helps vs an OVF because I can keep my right eye open when using the camera with my left causing much less eye fatigue. I was never able to do that with an OVF and had to close my right eye affecting my peripheral vision and causing fatigue.

It's really not a huge deal, but you do need to make it work when most things are designed for right handed and eyed people. I don't get bent about it though, I just look for cameras that work better for me in that regard. I moved to the R from a 6D, so it's not like I'm really losing anything not being able to set my focus on the display. Even using the D-pad for moving the focus point, I'm ahead of where I was.


----------



## Rule556 (Feb 12, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> 3. Did you know photography isn't art?



He's being funny, don't over-react. He's being funny, don't over-react. He's being funny, don't...


----------



## AlanF (Feb 12, 2020)

Rule556 said:


> Yeah, I'm a righty with left eye dominance. I shoot rifles left handed, pistols righty with my left eye, and the same with cameras. I'm also left footed for whatever that is worth.
> 
> I'm just a very confusing human.


Nothing that amputation can’t cure.


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## Optics Patent (Feb 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> One wonders how often some folks throw out the (ancient) baby with the (recently drawn) bathwater...



One wonders no longer what it takes to justify dumbed down non scientific clickbait.


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## AaronT (Feb 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Is that the moon? Or a really badly made pepperoni pizza?


It's a really bad, just like my over zealous statement!


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## SteveC (Feb 12, 2020)

Rule556 said:


> He's being funny, don't over-react. He's being funny, don't over-react. He's being funny, don't...



He's _trying_ to be funny.

Fixed it for you.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 12, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> 1. So what does that have to do with left/right eye dominance?
> 2. What does one do when one is zoomed more in one eye or the other?
> 3. Did you know photography isn't art?
> 4. What does any of this have to do with the R6?




You said: "Yes, if you are using a camera as a "right eyed" person you could theoretically keep the left eye open. Why, I have no idea."

I gave you one reason why. To use the peripheral vision of the left eye to maintain situational awareness of what is going on outside the normally narrow field of view one is seeing through the viewfinder when shooting sports.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 12, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> One wonders no longer what it takes to justify dumbed down non scientific clickbait.



So the one who claims to be most dedicated to scientific inquiry refuses to acknowledge empirical evidence that some (perhaps many) ancient cultures had nicknames for the full moon at various times of the celestial year? Purely because he dislikes the way they have been sensationalized and embellished in more recent times? Yet has the gall to talk about the blind leading the stupid while smugly placing himself outside of that circle...

Which is worse? Someone who is born blind or someone who refuses to see?

If science is supposed to be the _unbiased_ examination of empirical evidence and observations, what does it say about someone who appeals to science and yet refuses to see evidence placed directly in front of them because it doesn't mesh with their personal biases?


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## joestopper (Feb 12, 2020)

jeffa4444 said:


> Hopefully Canon has learnt from the EOS R. Some things on this camera just plain annoy, the touch screen that moves your focus point if your nose touches it, the badly positioned Touch Bar (bring back the joy stick) or the back button focus not falling properly where it should be. No problems with size or weight but the ergonomics were a step backwards for Canon. Yes you can disable the Touch Bar or the screen but what's the point of them disabled.
> 
> I will need a lot of convincing if the EOS R5 is a replacement for the 5DS. In typical 5D layout its pretty hard to beat in terms of layout.



If the R5 has 45MP why would it be a replacement for 5DS? A 5DS successor should have far higher MP (the rumored 75MP or 83MP).


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## Rule556 (Feb 12, 2020)

SteveC said:


> He's _trying_ to be funny.
> 
> Fixed it for you.



I tend to be a charitable sort.


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## bbb34 (Feb 12, 2020)

joestopper said:


> A 5DS successor should have far higher MP (the rumored 75MP or 83MP).



The pixel race is over. A camera successor could and should improve in other ways than increasing resolution.


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## Optics Patent (Feb 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> So the one who claims to be most dedicated to scientific inquiry refuses to acknowledge empirical evidence that some (perhaps many) ancient cultures had nicknames for the full moon at various times of the celestial year? Purely because he dislikes the way they have been sensationalized and embellished in more recent times? Yet has the gall to talk about the blind leading the stupid while smugly placing himself outside of that circle...
> 
> Which is worse? Someone who is born blind or someone who refuses to see?
> 
> If science is supposed to be the _unbiased_ examination of empirical evidence and observations, what does it say about someone who appeals to science and yet refuses to see evidence placed directly in front of them because it doesn't mesh with their personal biases?



You’re a piece of work. Must be fun at parties.


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## joestopper (Feb 12, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> The pixel race is over. A camera successor could and should improve in other ways than increasing resolution.



Disagree. There will always be sensors with higher pixel count. And there are many ways how to use such pixels either for sheer resilution for special scenarios, for high cropping power, for image stabilization etc. This race is by far not over given the current pixel pitch ...


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## AlanF (Feb 12, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> You’re a piece of work. Must be fun at parties.


Ancient cultures, like the Babylonian, which is still used as the Jewish religious one today, had lunar-based calendars with each lunar month having a name based on events associated with that month - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar Some names do go back millennia and are not just based on astrology.


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## bbb34 (Feb 12, 2020)

@joestopper No, we don't disagree. Sure there is still sensor development ongoing. Sure there are scenarios where more pixels are valuable.

The point is, that the majority of photographers do not benefit from routinely increasing the resolution any more. That's why the 1DX3 goes with 20 MP. That's why a 5D successor doesn't necessarily have to come with a significant increase in resolution. 

No, that doesn't mean there is no demand for higher resolution models. Of course there is.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 12, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> You’re a piece of work. Must be fun at parties.






Yeah, ad hominem arguments are real scientific, too.


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## Optics Patent (Feb 12, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Ancient cultures, like the Babylonian, which is still used as the Jewish religious one today, had lunar-based calendars with each lunar month having a name based on events associated with that month - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar Some names do go back millennia and are not just based on astrology.



Indeed. And unrelated to my criticism of clickbait media using silly lunar nicknames not found in any science book.

I wonder when the term Supermoon was coined. Note that I’m not criticizing history reports or fiction reports. I’m criticizing news (weather/science/fact) reports.

Enjoy the magnificent Baloneymoon. Next month is the Malarkeymoon!


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 12, 2020)

joestopper said:


> If the R5 has 45MP why would it be a replacement for 5DS? A 5DS successor should have far higher MP (the rumored 75MP or 83MP).


Its not as simple as increasing MP. Lenses have to keep pace to realise the potential of high MP cameras as it was Canon listed ideal lenses for the 5DS / 5DSr as not all canon optics had the ability to provide the right resolving power. As EF development has been suspended that task falls to the RF mount but not all high end photographers want mirrorless cameras so the sensor development needs to be transferable between both DSLRs & Mirrorless. 
Having used the 5DS since it launched for my type of photography (which is not birding) 50MP is more than enough and in portraits I find if I remain at 50MP I use low contrast filters to blow highlights to break the harshness of such clinically sharp shots. 45MP is to me a "sweet spot" providing details most lenses can deal with whilst not producing file sizes that after post-processing quickly eat-up storage space.


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## Ralph Conway (Feb 14, 2020)

CR: "The EOS R6 is real and has glorious IBIS, that’s really all we needed to know!"

Something new about this body? I am pretty sure the coming R5 will break my wallets capabilities. And I doen´t want and need 4K, 8K or more than 20MP. I wish myself just wish usable ISO 25K and the old ergonomics back anhanced by the AF touch solution. And a battery grip with functions of course.

Ralph


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## Ralph Conway (Feb 14, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> What's not clear exactly there? There's a grip on the RP. So this camera has the same grip.
> I hope it doesn't mean Canon re-uses the grips from disassembled RPs. It's just the grip has the same form.



The grip extension was meant.


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## analoggrotto (Feb 15, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Maybe not given their announcement about the 1DX3. I'm one of the vocal minority who still wants AA filters, just very weak ones. Ideally, with IBIS and sensor dust cleaning (i.e. moving sensor), we would have the choice of AA via vibration being on or off. But I don't know if someone else (Pentax?) has a patent on that.


Sony uses vibration for variable ND. Not sure if its the sensor or a layer in front of it. Brilliant idea.


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## Aaron Lozano (Feb 15, 2020)

Ralph Conway said:


> CR: "The EOS R6 is real and has glorious IBIS, that’s really all we needed to know!"
> 
> Something new about this body? I am pretty sure the coming R5 will break my wallets capabilities. And I doen´t want and need 4K, 8K or more than 20MP. I wish myself just wish usable ISO 25K and the old ergonomics back anhanced by the AF touch solution. And a battery grip with functions of course.
> 
> Ralph


In my case, I would like the R5s version, not the R6. ISO 6400 as good as 1DXII is already more than enough for me. Just looking for extreme resolution at low ISO, clean file and over 14 stops DR, also, no AA filter.


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## researcher (Feb 15, 2020)

Point taken. I thought the R-series was fundamentally different from the M-series, and there might be a market for an APSC-version for those dedicated crop-format shooters with a EF-S lens collection looking to upgrade to a newer and feature-rich mirrorless system. The M-series strikes me more as a lateral product line rather than upgrade path. Regardless, we'll see what Canon comes up with.



Michael Clark said:


> It's called the "M" series, which is the best selling mirrorless camera system on the planet.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 15, 2020)

researcher said:


> Point taken. I thought the R-series was fundamentally different from the M-series, and there might be a market for an APSC-version for those dedicated crop-format shooters with a EF-S lens collection looking to upgrade to a newer and feature-rich mirrorless system. The M-series strikes me more as a lateral product line rather than upgrade path. Regardless, we'll see what Canon comes up with.




I think Canon sees the R-series as more fundamentally different from the M-series than most folks here on CR do. I think Canon sees them as two totally separate markets with very little overlap or desire for APS-C M-series owners to migrate upwards to the FF RF system.

Keep in mind that the M-series in North America has not made much headway replacing Rebels. In Asia, it's the opposite. The entry level DSLRs have pretty much been replaced with APS-C MILCs by most "one camera" consumers. So while in North America most M-series buyers also have larger DSLRs or MILCs and use their M as a "travel" or "pocket" camera, in Asia almost all M-series buyers only have one camera body and one or two lenses with few aspirations to spend a lot more on multiple cameras and lenses. That's pretty close to most Rebel buyers in North America (just not the former Rebel owners here at CR). Most Rebel buyers never go beyond the Rebels. Europe seems to be somewhere in between, with M-series buyers in both categories.

I think Canon has also always seen the Rebel/xx0D/xx00D series as fundamentally different from the 1/5/6/7 series. The big question is where does the x0D series fit in that divide? Based on the simultaneous release of the 90D and M6 Mark II with much of the same hardware and specs/features, I think Canon has placed the x0D series in the M-series mirrorless camp. Where is the R-series camera with that same 32MP APS-C sensor that is Canon's best APS-C sensor to date?

Compare the list of EF-S lenses to EF-M lenses. They're very similar. The higher end EF-S lenses that have no EF-M counterpart have been around for more than a few years. Your EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS has been around since 2006 with no update in sight. The EF-S 60mm macro is a 2005 model. The EF-S 18-200 is from 2008. The 17-85 and 15-85 were rolled out in 2004 and 2009 respectively. When you consolidate the updates within the EF-S list, they're aren't many more EF-S lenses than EF-M lenses. EF-M has an 18-55mm kit lens. EF-S has had 9 different 18-55mm versions. That's nearly half of the 24 total EF-S lenses that have ever been sold! There are also three 18-135 and three 55-250 lenses. EF-M has an 18-150 and a 55-200 as their counterparts. So fifteen of the 24 different EF-S lenses are covered with three EF-M lenses. Of the remaining 9 the EF-S 10-22 and EF-S 10-18 are mirrored by the EF-M 11-22, the EF-M 15-45mm is kind of a compact 18-55mm, the EF-M 22mm and EF-M 35mm are answers to the EF-S 24mm and EF-S 35mm. The EF-M 28mm Macro is the most unique EF-M lens compared to the EF-S lineup, but it resembles the RF 35mm Macro.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 15, 2020)

While IBIS seems like a nice feature, when I look at the majority of my photos, subject movement is involved, and its fast movement, so it would be of little practical use, since I'd still need to use fast shutter speeds in relatively low light, and thats always a challenge for me. The improvements in low light autofocus do help me out.

So, IBIS may help some, but not all by any means. I'd pick a camera that has it over one that doesn't because it increases my resale value three years down the road when I upgrade again. The same for 4K or 8K video, it sells cameras, useful or not!


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## AaronT (Feb 18, 2020)

AlanF said:


> How did you stack them?


Hi Alan. I'm a bit late but better than never! It took me forever to find the "good" tutorial again. You need PiPP and Registax, both free Astro type stuff. You can get PiPP here - https://sites.google.com/site/astropipp/downloads . You can get Registax here - http://astrophotography-telescope.c...-free-stacking-software-and-image-processing/ . You have to download and install Registax 6.1 and then download and install the 6.1.0.8 update over it. And finally, the tutorial - 



 . There are a lot of tutorials out there, I found this one the best. BTW, his method for bringing out the colours of the moon work best on a full moon photo, not so much on a half or quarter. You can get a good result with 20-50 photos of the moon but the more, the better. You also get the best results from using a tripod but it can work handheld if careful.


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## Jaysheldon (Feb 24, 2020)

I want to know how many focus points the R6 will have (although it will be replacing my 6D, so anything above 11 will be a bonus.... ) and how fast/accurate the AF will be I hope it will be better than the 80/90D bicycle tests done by DPReview. ( https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-90d-review/6). Also interested in the resolution and frame rate of the viewfinder


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## Michael Clark (Feb 27, 2020)

Jaysheldon said:


> I want to know how many focus points the R6 will have (although it will be replacing my 6D, so anything above 11 will be a bonus.... ) and how fast/accurate the AF will be I hope it will be better than the 80/90D bicycle tests done by DPReview. ( https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-90d-review/6). Also interested in the resolution and frame rate of the viewfinder



The 90D bicycle test was set up to fail in the light in that location when they did the test. There's no contrast anywhere on the cyclist's face. DPR's bicycle test scene is subject to wide variations in natural lighting and different hair color/helmet colors-contrast/skin tones of different riders. It is inherently flawed. The *same* camera tested with the different conditions and test subjects would likely show as much difference as two different models tested under different conditions do. If their 90D test had a rider with the same black cap and the bright white "H" in the middle of it providing high contrast (the one the rider was wearing in the α7rIII test) and the AF point had actually been centered on the head of the rider, I'm fairly confident their 90D results would have been much different than they were. In the 90D LV test the face was getting more light and was brighter and had more contrast. Of course it did better! If the OVF test had been shot under the same condition, it would have done more than "slightly" better.


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