# Moving back to FF - 6D or 5D3 or wait for 6D2/5d4 ???



## hmatthes (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm an old EOS Film camera guy with a few older L 2.8 lenses -- and a 70D with many STM lenses.

I could hand hold my A2e/2.8L combos and get stellar results. Now the 70D/STM combos likewise give me stellar results. Hmmmmm... FF at 2.8 w/o IS seems to be just as good as 1.6x/STM in end results.

I want a FF body for landscape work that will give me slightly better image quality (shadow detail etc. w/o HDR)

5D3 and 6D prices are dropping very quickly. My 70D will do all the videos my family insists upon and it is great for sports (damned near everything else too!)

Making 24x36 canvas prints should not require a 5Ds/r -- it requires more than 16 meg but not 50...

Being on a budget, knowing that my FF purpose is landscapes, often low light, difficult manual focus...

What do I buy?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 10, 2015)

If money is tight, for sure 6D it is a good choice for landscape photos.


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## gsealy (Dec 10, 2015)

There is a $1K difference in price between the 5DIII and the 6D. Given your requirements I would say the question is:Is the IQ/ISO performance difference of the 5DIII compared to the 6D worth it? I don't have a 6D to be able to tell you. I do have the 5DIII. My suggestion is to go on YouTube and read reviews comparing the two cameras. I will say that I have heard really glowing remarks about the 6D. Good luck.


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## kaswindell (Dec 10, 2015)

I would agree with ajfotofilmagem, based on your criteria the 6D is the best fit. I have a 5D mk3, but would have probably gone with a 6D if Canon had put an autofocus system as good as the original 7D into it.


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## jd7 (Dec 10, 2015)

kaswindell said:


> I would agree with ajfotofilmagem, based on your criteria the 6D is the best fit.



+1

Doesn't sound like you will make use of the features where the 5DIII has advantages over the 6D, such as AF and flash sync speed. If that's correct, it seems to me the only reason for you to think about spending the extra money on a 5DIII is if you personally have a strong preference for its ergonomics.


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## rfdesigner (Dec 10, 2015)

hmatthes said:


> I'm an old EOS Film camera guy with a few older L 2.8 lenses -- and a 70D with many STM lenses.
> 
> I could hand hold my A2e/2.8L combos and get stellar results. Now the 70D/STM combos likewise give me stellar results. Hmmmmm... FF at 2.8 w/o IS seems to be just as good as 1.6x/STM in end results.
> 
> ...



I'm putting my pennies by for the 6D, I've done a fair bit of reading around.

in your case I'd go with the 6D.

The 6DII will cost more.
The 6D has stella low light AF on it's single cross point.
The 6D has possibly the best ~20Mpix sensor in any canon at this time.

Alternative: the Sony A7R can beat the dynamic range at low ISO but you don't get a full RAW.. you can get a metabones adapter to put your canon lenses on it. Some seem to like it some are less convinced. There is the A7RII with full RAW, but it costs more of course.


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## NancyP (Dec 10, 2015)

6D, and add the superfine focusing screen if you like to use old manual focus lenses on adapters. Otherwise, "live view" on tripod is unbeatable for precision manual focus with evaluation of depth of field. 6D also has outstanding low light function, probably a better sensor than on the 5D3, though the autofocus of the 6D is primitive.

I love my 6D, and I shoot landscapes and macro. Plus, it's lightweight, nice if you are hiking.


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## bholliman (Dec 10, 2015)

The 6D is an outstanding landscape camera and terrific value now. I had a 5D3 that I recently sold when I bought a 5DsR. The 5D3 is an excellent all around camera but for landscape I think the 6D is preferable. In live view the 6D and 5D3 perform the same, and as somebody else pointed out, the 6D sensor handles noise somewhat better.


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## FTb-n (Dec 10, 2015)

It could be a long wait and you would be paying top dollar for a newly released 6D2 or D4. It will be a longer wait if you want give it some time for the first tier of price drops.

If money is tight or you want the option of trading up to a newer model sometime in 2017, the 6D would be the logical choice. It does seem to meet your current needs.

However, the AF features of the 6D is a step backwards from your 70D and may leave you with a bit of buyer's remorse. I'd recommend the 5D3. You may not think you need the extra features of the 5D3, but I bet you will find a use for them. I also bet that your 70D will be relegated to video duty only (ok, maybe a second body if you shoot with two).


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## hmatthes (Dec 11, 2015)

FTb-n said:


> However, the* AF features of the 6D is a step backwards from your 70D* and may leave you with a bit of buyer's remorse. I'd recommend the 5D3. You may not think you need the extra features of the 5D3, but I bet you will find a use for them. I also bet that your 70D will be relegated to video duty only (ok, maybe a second body if you shoot with two).



I think that the 5D3 is winning since I am spoiled by AF. While lots of my landscapes are on tripod with manual focus touchup, most are handheld and I utilize the collection of AF points on the 70D. The 70D would be the field camera, the 70D for family (i.e. Flash with external Speedlight) and video.

Thank you everyone, it's time for FF again!


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## MickDK (Dec 11, 2015)

rfdesigner said:


> Alternative: the Sony A7R can beat the dynamic range at low ISO but you don't get a full RAW.. you can get a metabones adapter to put your canon lenses on it. Some seem to like it some are less convinced. There is the A7RII with full RAW, but it costs more of course.


And then there's the A7 II with 24 mpix and (now) full raw with firmware 2.0


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Dec 11, 2015)

get a 5d3 dont get a dinosaur slow 6D


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## candc (Dec 11, 2015)

If you are looking for a good mf ff camera I would recommend the a7 or a7ii. I picked up an a7rii and am using Fd lenses. It is a smashing combination. The evf is great in low light where an ovf would be difficult.


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## bholliman (Dec 11, 2015)

hmatthes said:


> FTb-n said:
> 
> 
> > However, the* AF features of the 6D is a step backwards from your 70D* and may leave you with a bit of buyer's remorse. I'd recommend the 5D3. You may not think you need the extra features of the 5D3, but I bet you will find a use for them. I also bet that your 70D will be relegated to video duty only (ok, maybe a second body if you shoot with two).
> ...



For landscape, the 6D's AF is not a problem, handheld or on a tripod using liveview. The 6D's AF is very accurate and repeatable for still or slowly moving subjects.

The 5D3 is definately a better all around camera and if you plan to shoot a lot of action or moving subjects, its worth the extra $1k.


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## Jopa (Dec 11, 2015)

The cheapest way that would cover everything you need is a Sony A7 ($1000) + Metabones Mk4 adapter ($400). You'll get the EVF + zoom right in the EVF for precise focusing (works quite well in the dark) and 24Mpx with a good DR. The AF will be terrible and mostly unusable with the EF glass. The lossy RAW is not as bad as people say about it. The A7m2 will be around of $1700, better, usable AF due to OSPDAF support by the adapter (in a good light, still unusable in low light) and lossless (but uncompressed - huge files) RAW. You can buy a used A7r for a little over $1k as well, but you'll have to avoid certain shutter speeds (1/60-1/160) that may cause image degradation due to the camera vibrations if you shoot from a tripod (hand held it's ok, especially with a vertical grip attached). The A7r2 will give you an ultimate quality but it's hard to call it "budget" ($3200). You may get a gray-imported 5dsr for a little less.

If you go with any A7-series camera, you'll get 2 problems. The most important for a landscape shooter is the significant quality degradation at the corners while shooting wide (and especially ultra wide) angle lenses: loss of sharpness, CA, vignetting are MUCH worse (please google it to see some samples) compared to a DSLR. The reason is the short flange distance and the sensor microlens design. I shot the 11-24 f/4 on the A7r and the A7r2 and now on the 5dsr - the difference is tremendous. You won't need all the DR if the corners look like garbage 

And the second problem is the whole Sony system is quite "RAW"  I'm a Sony shooter converted to Canon (due to a lack of the native lenses at first, and then slow AF with Canon glass). One day I just realized that the 5dsr is the best adapter (not Metabones!) for the Sony A7r2 to shoot Canon lenses  I was impressed on how everything is polished and "just works" in the Canon world. Sony doesn't even offer an RF triggered flash system, their F60M is a piece of junk that overheats after 20 shots.

So maybe just don't buy anything now, save the money and wait for the 5dmk4 that should be released the next year and supposedly have a better DR. I personally find DR of the 5dsr completely acceptable for my needs after switching from LR to C1. C1 works with Canon's CR2 way better than LR, the difference is very noticeable in everything - the shadows, noise, colors, etc... Not sure how they manage to achieve this kind of difference, but it is what it is  Good luck with your choice!!!


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## hmatthes (Dec 11, 2015)

Jopa said:


> I personally find DR of the 5dsr completely acceptable for my needs after switching from LR to C1. C1 works with Canon's CR2 way better than LR, the difference is very noticeable in everything - the shadows, noise, colors, etc... Not sure how they manage to achieve this kind of difference, but it is what it is  Good luck with your choice!!!


I'm fairly new to the forum. I use LR exclusively but I am open to anything that expands my image success.
*C1 -- what is that? * I assume that it is not Canon's DPP under a different name!


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## privatebydesign (Dec 11, 2015)

hmatthes said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > I personally find DR of the 5dsr completely acceptable for my needs after switching from LR to C1. C1 works with Canon's CR2 way better than LR, the difference is very noticeable in everything - the shadows, noise, colors, etc... Not sure how they manage to achieve this kind of difference, but it is what it is  Good luck with your choice!!!
> ...



Capture One https://www.phaseone.com/Products/Software/Capture-One-Pro/Highlights.aspx


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## hmatthes (Dec 12, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> hmatthes said:
> 
> 
> > I'm fairly new to the forum. I use LR exclusively but I am open to anything that expands my image success.
> ...



Wow... I will do the 30 day trial to see if (1) I create better images and (2) my workflow improves.
Looks like I could still use LR to import & organize (I sync with iPad etc.) then export collections for full post-process.

*Staying on topic... Maybe I can delay my FF purchase* if C1 helps exploit the utilizing of details hidden in my 70D raw files...
Thank you!


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## Luds34 (Dec 12, 2015)

A 6D is half the price or $1k cheaper then a 5D3, however you want to look at it. If the 70D is meeting your needs for action, then you don't need the 5D3. As others have eluded to, the 6D actually has a newer, ever so slightly better sensor. The 6D and 70D compliment each other very well. Also they have essentially identical ergonomics, button layout.

A $1k isn't too much of an investment. Get the 6D now and don't wait for the 5D4 or 6D2. Could easily be a year before you see them and I'm guessing you'll be spending a minimum of $2k.


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## Rupp1 (Dec 12, 2015)

Jopa said:


> And the second problem is the whole Sony system is quite "RAW"  I'm a Sony shooter converted to Canon (due to a lack of the native lenses at first, and then slow AF with Canon glass). One day I just realized that the 5dsr is the best adapter (not Metabones!) for the Sony A7r2 to shoot Canon lenses  I was impressed on how everything is polished and "just works" in the Canon world. Sony doesn't even offer an RF triggered flash system, their F60M is a piece of junk that overheats after 20 shots.



Very well said. Even with the availability of more lenses, the Sony system and Sony support are no where near as good as Conon's. I use both, but not shooting flash.

I had Capture One for a while but felt it never kept up with Adobe, especially if I needed support. Interesting that you disagree.


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## scottkinfw (Dec 12, 2015)

My disclaimer- I have a 5DII and 5DIII. I love ff, and both of my cameras have produced excellent pics- made me look better than I am at photography.

That said, and understanding the money constraints, I would recommend the 6D to you. I understand that the 6D is supposed to produce a better iq, but not sure about low light performance. You don't need the better/faster focusing that the 5D line offers so for landscape the 6D should serve you very well.

Of course, if you think that you will want something for action, consider a 5DIII.

Best to you.

sek


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## Jopa (Dec 12, 2015)

*C1 -- what is that?* Guilty for using too many abbreviations  Yes, Capture One. The images look different from the moment you open them, and while it's not as easy as LR for the local adjustments, overall it's a great alternative.

Forgot to mention - for the manual focusing outdoors you may try a Zacuto Z-finder (2.5 or 3x magnification). Basically you just mount a frame (holder) on your LV screen and attach the Zacuto eye-piece whenever you want to go manual. Found it on Ming Thein's blog: http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/06/24/understanding-af-manual-focus-aids-tested/ and love the z-finder. The camera looks clunkier but manual focusing is a breeze, even easier compared to the A7's EVF due to the initial magnification.


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## SUNDOG04 (Dec 12, 2015)

You said the camera will be used for landscape. In that case, the 6D is great. I bought one in spring primarily for landscape and could not be more pleased.

While the 5DIII is better in most ways, the 6D is excellent for landscapes. It is lighter and more compact than the 5DIII, focusing with the center point excellent and image quality is, for all practical purposes, equal of the 5DIII. The 5DIII is more rugged, better weather sealing, better focusing, more complicated, and considerably more expensive. Why pay the extra for a great sports camera when you do not intend on using it for that purpose. That money difference, in your case, would be better spent on a high quality lens or tripod.

It will be interesting seeing the changes to the 6D and 5DIII, but I did not want to wait for a newer model. The current 6D has everything I wanted in a landscape camera including affordability. I was a bit leery at first because so many people said the camera is dumbed-down. That is true, but still an excellent camera and does what I wanted. There is room for improvement, but, put so many more features into it and you have a 5DIII.


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## Sporgon (Dec 13, 2015)

If you like manual focus perhaps another point to consider is that the next generation of 6D / 5D may well reverse the interchangeable screen option. 

The 7DII has the facility, the 70D doesn't. This was a change from the 7D / 60D. 

My bet is that in the next generation cameras, if you want a proper manual focusing screen you're going to have to stump up the cash for a 5DIV, as the function won't be there in the 6DII.


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## Ruined (Dec 13, 2015)

hmatthes said:


> I'm an old EOS Film camera guy with a few older L 2.8 lenses -- and a 70D with many STM lenses.
> 
> I could hand hold my A2e/2.8L combos and get stellar results. Now the 70D/STM combos likewise give me stellar results. Hmmmmm... FF at 2.8 w/o IS seems to be just as good as 1.6x/STM in end results.
> 
> ...



6D no contest. Less pattern noise from sensor when pulling up shadows and ability to swap focus screens (such as for Eg-S high precision).


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