# Tips on shooting hockey?



## ahsanford (Oct 30, 2012)

Hello Canon folks,

I thought I'd dabble at some sports work. My friend plays hockey in a local rec league, so I thought I'd give that a go.

It's a small local rink, and I have free access to about 80% of the glass' periphery and can walk right up to the glass. Also, being a new rink, the glass is nearly perfectly clear (though it does reflect lights).

Here's what I am doing...

Gear:

5D3
24-70 Mk I, 70-200 F/2.8 IS II
UV filters only (for front element protection), not using polarizers as I want as much light as possible
Not using hoods as the slightly elevated standing space behind the boards is really small and the hood would lean to a risky balancing act as it would push me back three inches from the glass.

Method:

Most of the shots are standing behind the glass in the corners of the ice, I can comfortably pan with the 70-200 or zoom out with the 24-70 to see from the entry of the zone to the net without hitting a glass seam.
Not using a monopod -- just handholding
Using IS mode 1 on the 70-200. I'm not _just_ panning at guys skating by. Some guys are coming right at me.
I'm generally trying to freeze motion, so I've been in the ISO 1600-3200 range, and F/3.5 or so as both lenses sharpen up when slightly stopped down. I'm happy to net 1/500s exposures, but would love to shoot more quickly if it didn't generate much noise or drive a softer large aperture.
Using level one out of three of high ISO noise reduction.
Shooting JPEG only to keep the buffer manageable -- more consecutive shots.
AI Servo used, chose mode 4 in the menu system. Generally using the center point only, but I also use single point off-set right or left to track the puck handler with space in front of them, rule of thirds-style.... sort of.
As I am shooting JPEG, I'm using the florescent white balance as that's the lighting in this rink.
Pushing EV +1 to get the ice truly white (it's gray at normal exposure) -- this is like shooting snow, right?

Results:

I'm seeing a lot of slightly cloudy looking shots. Levels work can manage some of this, but I'd like to get it right in camera if possible.
Much like shooting portraits of someone in front of the ocean, I often mess up and shoot out-of-level with the boards & dasher. Any tips on this? Monopod, maybe?
Sharpness is good, not great. Nothing, not even still shots of guys at a faceoff, resembles the razor sharpness I see on a sports website. Short of stopping down further, what can I do here?

Samples -- see attached / below.

*...Now, please tell me what might put me in a better position to succeed!* 

Thanks, team. It's awesome to learn from you all.

- A


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## PackLight (Oct 30, 2012)

Looks fun;

I think your pics are a bit cool though, to blue. I took one of them in LR and adjusted the temp up +20 or so and it made a world of difference.


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## tbadowski (Oct 30, 2012)

I've been shooting hockey for several years with a 30D, and now, most recently with a 70-200 2.8 IS II.
(which would be better with a FF, cause it's sometimes too much zoom for the 1.6 crop factor.)

Shooting thru the glass is like shooting thru a big stack of cheap filters- even if the glass is clean, it's going to
dull the image- so I try to get in the penalty box and shoot from there, but I have to duck a lot.

I'm always fighting the metering on the 30D; while the 5DmkIII should be better, the biggest problem I found was when I was shooting the home jerseys, which were navy. So, the meter would be trying to make the ice an 18% gray, or the jerseys an 18% gray; I finally gave up and went to Manual, and set the exposure that way. Also, you might consider a custom white balance- different rinks have different - but always low cost- lights, that have there own color cast.

I'm saving my pennies for the 5D, and hope to see how much better it is, but, maybe there's a couple things to try.


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## Shawn L (Oct 30, 2012)

Maybe of some help: http://scottkelby.com/2012/the-challenge-of-shooting-hockey-and-a-progress-report/


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## TexasBadger (Oct 30, 2012)

I have shot a lot of have hockey and I would recommend the following. Shoot straight raw, not jpeg. Shoot manually. Take a meter reading off of a player and go with that. Use a monopod. It will help a lot. Try to get a SS of 1000/sec. Shoot from the penalty box if possible and shoot over the glass, not through it. Use your lens shade, it will protect your lens from a flying puck. Use servo on your autofocus so that you can track a moving player. Most important, shoot raw and clean up in pp. You will get plenty of shots in your buffer. Only use your cf card (no sd) and your buffer will write and clear faster. Have fun!


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## ahsanford (Oct 30, 2012)

Great feedback, all. Will try to get above the glass, but it will be a challenge in this small arena.

As for using the penalty box, it's at center ice, which is great for looking at goalies and defenders, but poor for looking at offensive players. What do you do to capture shots of shooters and guys attacking the crease?


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## eli72 (Oct 30, 2012)

It's much easier if you can shoot from over the top of the glass, but they may have nets in that rink. Shooting through the glass, as someone pointed out, is like shooting through a hazy window, and it's going to keep you from getting sharp shots (the pros at the NHL rinks shoot through holes in the glass, so they don't have that problem). I found that using an Expodisc to set a custom white balance was by far the best way to go (although I also shot RAW+JPEG just in case). Shoot manually, because the brightness of the white floor of the rink will tend to cause your meter to underexpose. Biggest thing to remember is to anticipate when something is going to happen so that you can start tracking the player before you're ready to shoot - that gives the focusing a chance to settle down on the player you're following.


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## eli72 (Oct 30, 2012)

One other thing that you might try is to get a rubber lens hood so that you can put your lens right up next to the glass - that will cut down on some of the reflections from the glass. Just remember that the boards and the glass give, and if a couple of players run into the glass right in front of you, your camera is going to get shoved back into your face, so it's good to shoot with both eyes open so that you can try to see them coming.


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## krjc (Oct 30, 2012)

Not 100% of the time but mostly shoot at 2.8, 1/800, +1 EV and let the ISO be what it may (These shots between 4,000 and 12,800). Of course I have a 5D3 so it is not a problem. Most of the time I shoot RAW to adjust the WB, but these shots were taken JPEG and they came out fine I believe. I don't see the need for IS or a tripod if you are shooting at 1/800. Hockey is a fast sport so you need to shoot fast. Of course it helps if the arena is well lit, which is often not the case for minor league rinks.I like to get low and an angle where there is no glass. Personally I don't like to shoot downwards.

I just wish I could of had a camera like this 10 years ago when my kids were just starting to play hockey. :-[


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## ahsanford (Oct 31, 2012)

Awesome tips, gang. Keep 'em coming. 

Thoughts:

@KRJC: I have a 5D3 but try to keep the ISO 6400 or under. But I'll give your higher ISO recommendation (would be needed for 1/800s) a go. I'd AUTO ISO that to key to a minimum shutter speed if it would let me -- right now 1/250s is the fastest it will Auto ISO to on my 5D3. That seems to be something they could easily rev in firmware...

@Eli72: Indeed, they have nets above the glass. But at such a small DOF, provided the focus doesn't re-track on the net (something tune-able in the menus), shouldn't I be able to shoot through the nets? Or will it give me a light cast on the subject?

Also, to everyone -- no commentary on *type* of Servo AF to use? The 7D and 5D3 (I believe) have similar 'cases' for different sports. I was using type 4, defined as "Subjects accelerate or decelerate quickly", intended for soccer, motorsports or basketball (according to hitting info for added detail on that mode). Good / bad call?

Also, for 5D3 users, let's talk about AF point selection -- go with the single point, 5 pt (cross) cluster, 9 pt (3x3) cluster, the huge 9 zone selection, or the auto select? I have been using the single point with good success, but I am choosing fairly bunny targets like a man in the clear with no one around him. My hit rate is okay in crowds but could be better. Ideas?


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## krjc (Oct 31, 2012)

For hockey I feel comfortable all the way up to 12,800. I rarely get good photos under 1/800 when the puck is in play. Try M with aperture and shutter set and ISO on ISO with a max of 12,800 ISO set. Focus point I set in middle with 8 surrounding points. Also good to put on high speed continuous. I have never tried any of the special modes for focusing. I guess I should give it a try.


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## scotthillphoto (Oct 31, 2012)

When I used to work for a university I shot hockey all the time the normal for us was 6400 iso, 1/800th and 2.8 a custom WB but every rink is lit differently and when shooting through the glass you need to be right on it almost touching it with your lens... I have a few shots attatched below shot with a 1D3 and 7D with 70-200L 2.8 and the 300L 2.8


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## ahsanford (Oct 31, 2012)

krjc said:


> For hockey I feel comfortable all the way up to 12,800. I rarely get good photos under 1/800 when the puck is in play. Try M with aperture and shutter set and ISO on ISO with a max of 12,800 ISO set. Focus point I set in middle with 8 surrounding points. Also good to put on high speed continuous. I have never tried any of the special modes for focusing. I guess I should give it a try.



You can go Auto ISO in full manual? Didn't know you could do that. Will try, thx.


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## FTb-n (Oct 31, 2012)

I shoot a lot of figure skating in hockey rinks with a 7D and a 70-200 f2.8L II. Several random tips:

1. Shoot RAW or JPG, but not RAW+JPG. The latter will burn your buffer.

2. If shooting JPG (I often do), use custom white balance. Try taking your WB shot off the white boards. In some rinks, setting WB to white fluorescent will also work. Don't rely on AWB.

3. Set ISO from 3200 to 6400. Your 5DIII can handle this with greater ease than my 7D. Go for shutter speeds above 1/500, closer 1/1000. A little noise is better than motion blur.

4. If you have noise to deal with, use NoiseNinja to clean it up.

5. Set your 70-200 IS to pan mode 2 and use a mono-pod with the lens' collar mount. I once believed I didn't need the IS or added support with fast shutter speeds, but every little bit helps. Plus, the 5DII/70-200 2.8L is heavy. Fatigue will set in when hand-holding for a while. The mono-pod takes the weight for you and makes it far easier change focus points or other camera settings on the fly. I shoot a lot of sports without a mono-pod, but with figure skating, I find it invaluable particularly for the fatigue factor.

6. I assume that the 5DIII has focus point expansion, use it. With the 7D, it helps with tracking. Use AI Servo mode.

7. Don't be afraid of f2.8 with your 70-200 II. It's very sharp. But, you may want to move the focus point around so it's at face level. Just keep it on something with contrast (and not solid color jerseys). Be aware that 2.8 isn't very forgiving on out-of-focus shots.

8. Shoot in manual and find an ISO/shutter speed/f-stop combination that works. Lighting is likely to be somewhat consistent throughout the rink. You may end up bumping the shutter speed up and down a bit as players move in and out of dark spots. Trust your eye and periodically check the preview. But, don't rely on an auto exposure mode.

9. Avoid shooting through the Plexiglas. Since shooting from the players box means the players are skating away from you, this likely means shooting from the top of the stands.

10. Practice. Practice. Practice.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 31, 2012)

ahsanford said:


> krjc said:
> 
> 
> > For hockey I feel comfortable all the way up to 12,800. I rarely get good photos under 1/800 when the puck is in play. Try M with aperture and shutter set and ISO on ISO with a max of 12,800 ISO set. Focus point I set in middle with 8 surrounding points. Also good to put on high speed continuous. I have never tried any of the special modes for focusing. I guess I should give it a try.
> ...



With a 5D3 yes, but then I'm not sure you can EC +1. I know you can on 1D bodies, but not sure about 5D3. For 1D body I set max aperture f/2.0, min f/4.0, Tv mode at 1/1000s, ISO=auto, ISO safety shift ON, and EC +2/3 or +1. Volleyball usually +2/3 is about right, with custom WB about 3200-3500. Hockey I agree +1. I keep my colors cooler when shooting because the warmer colors seem to generate more noise than cooler channels with regards to WB.


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## ahsanford (Oct 31, 2012)

Awesome. Great guidance all.

@FTb-n: Super detailed, thanks. The 'lens collar mount' you refer to is just the native 70-200 tripod ring, right? You aren't referring to a special swivel mount for a monopod, right?

@bdunbar79: Oh crap, I never thought of that. If Auto ISO _for Av_ doesn't have the fast shutter speed I want, I can use Auto ISO on Tv and frame the aperture limits instead. Clever!

Everyone, any comments on shooting over glass but through the nets above the glass? Do-able or not?

Can't wait to shoot again. The next game I can make is in two weeks.

- A


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## FTb-n (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, I was refering to the tripod ring that comes with the 70-200L.

I do use a Bogen (now Manfrotto) quick release tilt head on my mono-pod so I can tilt down and up. The tilt and the quick release work well for me. This is a personal preference thing. Some prefer mounting the lens tripod ring directly to the mono-pod without a head. You'll have to figure out which works best for you. (But, be wary of the ball mount. It never stays put when shooting action.)

http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-234RC-Monopod-Quick-Release/dp/B000JLM50I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1351732295&sr=8-3&keywords=manfrotto+qr+tilt+head


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## krjc (Nov 1, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > krjc said:
> ...



Yes you got me on that one. When I did EC+1, I was in shutter priority. :-[ . Another reason to want a 1DX :-\


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## MRLinVA (Nov 1, 2012)

Typical setup has been 7D with 70-200 MkII sometime with 2x ext, sometimes 300mm 2.8 MkII. Have not had a chance to try out the 1Dx due to the lockout. :-[


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## MRLinVA (Nov 1, 2012)

Fight on


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## MRLinVA (Nov 1, 2012)

I typically shoot over the glass.


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## Northstar (Dec 16, 2012)

One thing I would say is to find your settings while players are warming up before the game, and then stick with them.

No auto iso, set fixed iso somewhere between 1600 to 6400 at 2.8 with shutter speed at 1/640 to 1/1000. (All depending on the light)

I like center focus point with 8 surrounding....servo case number 1 or 4 seem to work.....center weighted average meter.

It looks like you need to do some custom white balance because your shots are too blue, as others have mentioned.

Shooting over the glass will net you best IQ, but there is nothing better than a nice shot from on the ice, behind and slightly to the side of the goal or in the corners...the downside is that you have to live with slightly less IQ as the plexiglass dulls the image...always trade offs in photography.

Have you gone back for more hockey yet?


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 18, 2012)

Something I haven't quite seen yet with regard to Exposure and White Balance - you'll never get it consistently spot on in the arena. You'll get close but that's all you can hope for. Arenas use lights that pulse at 60Hz. Since you aren't going to be shooting at 1/60 or below, you are going to catch the lights at different points in their phasing. This will cause your sequential shots to vary both in exposure and color (white balance) as the lights change intensity and color. Set you camera as others have said using manual settings and choose a manual white balance that you like and don't change it. Avoid AWB at all costs.

The trick is to at least try to keep things as consistent as possible so when you clean things up in post, the variation will be more predictable and easier to deal with. As you can imagine, AWB would wreak havoc on the WB consistency. And I totally agree, RAW is the way to go. Avoid JPG because you will likely want to adjust more than JPG will allow.

Here's a great write up on this issue...
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=20873

FWIW, your pictures already look great. I can't wait to see the next set!! Have FUN!!! 8)


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## dlleno (Dec 18, 2012)

FTb-n said:


> Yes, I was refering to the tripod ring that comes with the 70-200L.
> 
> I do use a Bogen (now Manfrotto) quick release tilt head on my mono-pod so I can tilt down and up. The tilt and the quick release work well for me. This is a personal preference thing. Some prefer mounting the lens tripod ring directly to the mono-pod without a head. You'll have to figure out which works best for you. (But, be wary of the ball mount. It never stays put when shooting action.)
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-234RC-Monopod-Quick-Release/dp/B000JLM50I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1351732295&sr=8-3&keywords=manfrotto+qr+tilt+head



personal preferences to be sure; here's mine: I brought in the 234C and sent it right back because I wanted something beefier atop my Gitzo. I also wanted a head that could rotate 180 to accomodate the difference between my camera body plate and my 70-200 lens plate. The RRS monopod head is expensive, but for me its perfect. 2-axes of rotation is all you really need for a monopod -- I didn't want a ballhead for the same reasons you mentioned, but this RRS head is a real wahoo I have to say. 

http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=MH-02-Pro&type=0&eq=MH-02-Pro-001&desc=MH-02-Pro%3a-Head-with-Indexing-Pro-Clamp&key=ait

Its available in the lever mount too...


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## Northstar (Dec 19, 2012)

MRLinVA said:


> Typical setup has been 7D with 70-200 MkII sometime with 2x ext, sometimes 300mm 2.8 MkII. Have not had a chance to try out the 1Dx due to the lockout. :-[



I love the ref that is just standing with hands on hips....I can read his mind, "I wonder if I have any beer in the fridge at home"


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 19, 2012)

Picture a thought bubble over his head of Homer Simpson thinking, Ummmm! Beeer!


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## Northstar (Dec 19, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Picture a thought bubble over his head of Homer Simpson thinking, Ummmm! Beeer!



you r funny rusty! lol


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## tomx (Apr 1, 2013)

Anybody used t2i/3i/4i and the 70-200mm IS II lens to shot hockey? I just bought the lens but need a body and don't want to spend too much (already spent on the lens ).

BTW, I bought the lens to shoot pics for my son's pee wee hockey games. I have an old Canon 300D (6 MP) and I did try it with the 70-200mm IS II lens. The result is not very good - the highest ISO I can set is 1600 and this only give ma about 1/250 SS with 'correct' exposure which is still a little bit dark to me. I shoot with Av and already set the aperture to f/2.8 which is the widest.

Thanks in advance!

Tom


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## FTb-n (Apr 3, 2013)

I've used a T2i and a 60D for figure skating. Both can handle the higher ISO, but both will have theire fair share of OOF shots do to relatively slow focus tracking. The T2i has a very slow burst mode and buffer. The buffer on the 60D is better for JPEGs, but RAW will fill up if you're not careful.

Consider Canon's refurb store. I saved a bunch last year with my 7D from there.

Of the crop bodies currently available, I think your choice will narrow down to two options.

1. T4i -- With Digic 5, has the best high ISO noise reduction for JPEGs. RAW images should be very similar. Also offers auto-focus for video. However, this is NOT a high action body. Only 5fps and a RAW buffer of only 6 shots. You can get excited about the action on the ice, fire lots of shots in a hurry (not all in burst), only to have a full buffer when the puck enters the net. But, the price is good. (The new T5i is essentually the same camera with minor updates.)

http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_320718_-1

2. 7D -- The best sports crop Canon makes. Compared to the T-series and the xxD, it's focus system is amazing and a great match for the 70-200. I bought my 70-200 when I had a 60D and was frustrated with roughly 20% OOF of figure skating shots. 20% doesn't sound bad, but if your key moments are among the 20%, it's terrible. For me, the 60D held me back from the full potentual of the 70-200. As for the buffer -- nothing to worry about (I use use Transcend 600x cards). 8fps is a nice bonus. Slower burst rates are often useless after the second shot. For figure skating, I prefer shutter speeds between 1/500 and 1/800 at f2.8. I routinely shoot at ISO 1600- 3200. You will get noise, but Lightroom 4 does a great job at cleaning it up.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_260463_-1


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## tomx (Apr 3, 2013)

Thanks for the reply! 

I just bought a refurbished t2i yesterday from Canon Store (can't help buying it due to the attractive price at $336  ). Will try it out to see how it goes.

Regarding to the IS lens, should I turn it off or set it to mode 2 when shooting hockey? Thanks again!

Tom


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## Northstar (Apr 4, 2013)

tomx said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I just bought a refurbished t2i yesterday from Canon Store (can't help buying it due to the attractive price at $336  ). Will try it out to see how it goes.
> 
> ...



Turn IS off and don't shoot slower than 1/500. At 1/500 or faster, the IS wont help you...and I've read that some pro sport shooters believe it slows down AF speed so they leave it off.


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## FTb-n (Apr 4, 2013)

$336 is a good price for the T2i, congrats.

Regarding IS, leave it on and in mode 2. According to Chuck Westfall, IS provides a steady image that helps the camera lock on to focus.

Also, remember the reciprocal rule of thumb for film/FF bodies. On average, the minimum safe hand-held shutter speed is the reciprocal of the focal length. This general assumes a stationary subject and a stationary photographer who is bracing the camera in some fashion (typically with how they hold the camera). For sports, the photographer is moving the camera to shoot. I would suggest a shutter speed 2-4 times faster would be necessary to eliminate camera movement from the equation.

A 200mm lens on a crop body is effectively a 320 (when compared to FF). The minimum safe shutter speed for stationary subjects would be 1/320. For sports, 2-4 times faster would be 1/640-1/1280. But, it is still possible that a moving camera (as with tracking the action) could impart some blur even at 1/1000 of a second.

I shoot in similar situations and lighting with the same lens and similar body. Shooting at 1/1000 indoor could be challenge. Don't be afraid to shoot above ISO 3200. Also, leave the IS on, it may help and won't hurt.

Regarding the T2i (or any non-7D crop) and hockey. Use AI SERVO and center point focusing. But, understand what AI SERVO does. It does NOT read the exact focus at the time that the shutter fires. Instead, it tracks the speed and direction of movement and predicts what the focus will be when it fires. This means that it might take a second to get accurate focus and it can be fooled when the subject changes direction. The 7D has a processor dedicated for focusing to keep up. The other crop bodies do not.

When shooting hockey, get in the habit of letting up on the shutter when the subject changes direction. When you again press half way, the camera will start over with the tracking and won't be fooled by the previous direction of the subject. I've had lots of OOF shots with my 60D because of this.

Last note regarding ISO. This sounds counterintuitive, but it's better to overexpose at 6400 than underexpose at 3200. Noise happens when pixels are starved for light. Overexposing (1/3 to 2/3 stops) helps prevent this and the exposure can be fixed in post. Experiment with ISO. If you doubt shooting this high, experiment with some, then go back to comfort ISO. 1600 was my comfort zone max until I started experimenting, now I routinely shoot between 2000 and 4000.

Good luck.


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## Northstar (Apr 4, 2013)

> Regarding IS, leave it on and in mode 2. According to Chuck Westfall, IS provides a steady image that helps the camera lock on to focus.



I'll repeat...leave IS off when shooting faster than 1/500...IS is great when shooting at slower shutter speeds, but does nothing at fast shutter speeds other than potentially slow you down

Here's a blog post from Scott Kelby where he discusses this issue...(Nikon VR is the same as Canon IS)

"Well, if you’re shooting with a VR (Vibration Reduction) lens, once your shutter speed gets above 1/500 of a second, you should turn VR off to avoid any shutter lag or slower frame advance rates caused by the VR trying to stabilize the lens. (At high shutter speeds, you don’t really need to VR—after all, Vibration Reduction was designed to let you hand hold in low light, slow shutter speed situations. If you’re shooting with shutter speeds above 1/500 of a second, you really don’t need the VR"

http://scottkelby.com/2008/quick-tip-for-nikon-sports-shooters/



> Last note regarding ISO. This sounds counterintuitive, but it's better to overexpose at 6400 than underexpose at 3200. Noise happens when pixels are starved for light. Overexposing (1/3 to 2/3 stops) helps prevent this and the exposure can be fixed in post. Experiment with ISO. If you doubt shooting this high, experiment with some, then go back to comfort ISO. 1600 was my comfort zone max until I started experimenting, now I routinely shoot between 2000 and 4000



This is very good advice...I learned this by mistake when I shot an entire period overexposed by 2/3 stop...once I got the images into post processing I realized that many of my "mistake" shots looked fantastic, the overexposed images allowed me to see faces under helmets much better....now I regularly shoot 1/2 stop overexposed in hockey.


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## Northstar (Apr 4, 2013)

A couple shots from the Minnesota HS state hockey tournament....both through the glass...70-200ii

I posted these because both shots are slightly overexposed to see faces better under those helmets


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## FTb-n (Apr 5, 2013)

Great shots, Northstar! Having spent countless hours trying capture figure skating, I can appreciate everything that went into these shots, particularly the timing. Was this with your 1Dx or 5D3? 

Back to the IS question. When to use IS is still a hotly debated topic. I suspect the real answer is “it depends.” It may depend on the focal length, the body (FF or crop), the subject matter, and/or the manufacturer.

In this thread, we are considering a T2i with the EF 70-200 f2.8L USM IS II. 

First, I still contend that 1/500 isn't fast enough to eliminate camera blur while shooting hand held action shots with a 200 mm lens on a crop body, which magnifies image movement over that of a FF body.

Second, *Nikon's VR and Canon's IS are different systems with different algorithms*. Canon pioneered lens-based image stabilization in 1995. Nikon played catch-up in 2000. Canon starts stabilizing the image when the shutter is pressed half-way, before focus is locked. Nikon initiates when the shutter button is pressed half-way, but does a “recenter” action just before the shutter is tripped. Nikon uses a sampling rate of 1000Hz (1/1000 sec) which means it's only accurate to half that speed, or 1/500 sec. This supports Scott Kelby's advice to turn off VR when shooting at or above 1/500. It also supports the notion that VR can get in the way of rapid burst sports bodies.

However, *Kelby was talking about Nikon's VR, not Canon's IS*. 

[Here's more detail on Nikon's VR system http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm]

Canon hasn't published it's sampling frequency and Canon officially states that it's IS system is designed to aid the focus system even at high speeds. When asked about using IS for photographing skiing with high shutter speeds, Canon's Chuck Westfall, says leave it on http://digitaljournalist.org/issue1002/tech-tips.html (see 8th question).

The Digital Picture's forum includes a more detailed response from Canon on this subject [from 
http://community.the-digital-picture.com/showthread.php?t=5279]:

_Canon does not quote the sampling frequency for its Image Stabilizer mechanisms. Also, Canon does not recommend users to avoid using IS at fast shutter speeds. The visual effects of IS in captured images diminish as the shutter speed increases over 1/focal length, but the use of IS for moving subjects in these conditions can be beneficial because it presents a steadier image to the camera's AF detection mechanism.

We can can confirm that it takes about a half second for Image Stabilization to become operational with most IS-equipped EF and EF-S lenses. Even so, Image Stabilization is a useful tool for many photographic applications including bird photography at high shutter speeds. However, like any other tool, it requires good technique on the part of the user for best results. Additionally, some photographers may prefer to shut it off at least occasionally depending on their shooting style. Bottom line, it makes no sense to declare that IS is either "all good" or "all bad" when it comes to bird photography. Use it when you need it, and for best results, let it come up to speed before you release the shutter.

Incidentally, it is not necessarily true that IS must be shut off and re-engaged when AF is shut off and re-engaged. IS can operate independently from AF through Custom Function control. On current EOS models, for instance, Custom Function IV-1-2 allows IS to be operated by the shutter release and AF to be operated by the AF-ON button. Using this method, IS remains active for several seconds after pressing the shutter button halfway while disengaging and then reengaging AF.

Canon IS and Nikon VR do not share the same operational principles, so this question cannot be answered as written. The IS specifications mentioned in "EF Lens Work III" refer to the degree of lens movement, not the sampling frequency of the gyro sensors. _

Back to the question of IS on for hockey with a T2i. The T2i FPS rate is 3.7 and likely too slow for image stabilization to impede it's rate (if Canon's IS would do so). This leaves us with two questions. Is there a shutter speed limit with Canon's IS such that faster speeds do nothing to further steady the image? Is there a shutter speed and/or frame rate that will “fight” with Canon's IS system and impede focus lock?

Sadly, Canon's official documentation and lens user manuals do not answer either of these questions. I have found nothing definitive from Canon or specifically about Canon's IS system that supports the notion that it's IS is not effective beyond 1/500 second or will degrade focus lock at higher speeds.

While I still think it's best to leave IS on with high shutter speeds – that it won't hurt and may help – I'd still like a more definitive answer from Canon. With a 70-200 on a T2i at 1/500, I still say leave it on (in Mode 2). At 1/1000, it may not matter. In between, good question.


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## Northstar (Apr 5, 2013)

FTb-n said:


> Great shots, Northstar! Having spent countless hours trying capture figure skating, I can appreciate everything that went into these shots, particularly the timing. Was this with your 1Dx or 5D3?
> 
> Back to the IS question. When to use IS is still a hotly debated topic. I suspect the real answer is “it depends.” It may depend on the focal length, the body (FF or crop), the subject matter, and/or the manufacturer.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Used my 1dx and 70-200

Interesting to read...I agree that there is no definitive answer on IS on or off over 1/500....thanks for sharing your views.

This is an Adorama interview of the Arizona Diamondbacks team photographer discussing his Canon Equipment and how he uses it to shoot professional baseball....at the 6:20 mark, he discusses IS and why he turns it off most of the time.

I share his experience/view on IS....but I understand that we're just stating an opinion, not a fact.

http://youtu.be/0q_5dB9T-i8


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## FTb-n (Apr 5, 2013)

I think we offer more than our opinions. We share our experiences, our understanding of the technologies, and our resources that form these opinions. This is why I like this forum.

I've heard the IS/VR has no affect at speeds above 1/500 argument before. But, this never made sense to me.

My experience has been heavily influenced decades ago by trying to get sharp images with an FTb-n and an FD 80-210 f4.0. 1/500 just wasn't fast enough to reliably eliminate camera shake. Consequently, I equated the "turn VR/IS off after 1/500" as "1/500 is fast enough to eliminate shake" debate.

More recently, I've taken photos of still subjects (people posing) with small primes including the 40 f2.8. According to the reciprocal rule, 1/80 of a second should be more than fast enough to eliminate camera shake. But, group photos of my kid's volleyball team at 1/80 just aren't nearly as sharp as ones taken at 1/800. Similare phots taken with IS lenses at 1/80 were tack sharp. 

Thanks to Northstar's link to Scott Kelby's comments on VR, I did more digging on the technical limitations of VR and IS. I can see where 1/500 does represent the upper limit of VR lenses, but I'm still in search of that limit for Canon's IS lenses. (Sure wish Canon would address how best to use IS on it's lenses, which I suspect may vary with the lens.)

Most of my action experience with the 70-200 f2.8 has been with a 7D in poorly lit ice rinks and gyms. (Sadly, the rinks don't often use all the lights for figure skating, but they turn them all on for hockey.) I've rarely been able to shoot above 1/640 and most often shoot at 1/500, not fast enough to feel I didn't need IS. So, I've been eager to learn of the experience of professional Canon shooters.

The post of Jon Willey was most informative, just the kind of first-hand experience that I was seeking. Thanks for posting it. What was missing in the interview was typical shutter speed range. What's the slowest Willey feels comfortable with? I can't say that I've ever experienced the IS "jump" to which he referred. This does make me wonder if this is more an issue with the big lenses and not so much with the 70-200.

I've recently purchased a 5D3 and can now shoot closer to 1/1000 at the rink. Thanks to this discussion, I'm compelled to experiment more with IS on and off. At the rink, I do shoot with a monopod (and IS on) and believe it has helped sharpen my images. But, I don't have concrete evidence (haven't really tried side by side comparisons).

Northstar, about those hockey shots, do you recall the shutter speed? Were you hand-held or monopod (or something else)?


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## Northstar (Apr 5, 2013)

FTb-n said:


> I think we offer more than our opinions. We share our experiences, our understanding of the technologies, and our resources that form these opinions. This is why I like this forum.
> 
> I've heard the IS/VR has no affect at speeds above 1/500 argument before. But, this never made sense to me.
> 
> ...



FTb...those particular hockey shots were at the Xcel center, home to the MN Wild, so the lighting is much better than a local rink. So I had the luxury of shooting at f4, 3200 ISO, and 1/1000...If I was shooting at a typical local ice arena, the settings would usually be 1/800, 3200 iso, f2.8.... Bad light arena, 1/640, 3200 or 4000 iso, f2.8.

Re Monopod -it's not needed at 1/640 and faster for my 70-200, so it doesn't matter for sharpness....imo. Similar discussion as IS. If you're shooting at 300mm or 400mm, then a monopod would probably help. 

Also, I find IQ better when you keep the lens hood pressed up against the plex glass...tough to do with monopod. 

Good discussion FTb.


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## FTb-n (Apr 5, 2013)

Northstar, thanks for sharing the details and for the discussion. I found it quite valuable.

I like using the monopod for shooting 90 minute figure skating exhibitions where I can shoot from one of the hockey player boxes. I can't say that it really helps sharpen the image vs. hand-held. But, after about a half hour of constant tracking of skaters, some fatigue sets in and the monopod makes it easier for me to track skaters while constantly following with the zoom ring. For other indoor school sports, like basketball and volleyball, I free hand it. A monopod would get in the way.

FYI, small world. That local rink that I shoot at isn't far from the Xcel Center.


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## Northstar (Apr 6, 2013)

FTb-n said:


> Northstar, thanks for sharing the details and for the discussion. I found it quite valuable.
> 
> I like using the monopod for shooting 90 minute figure skating exhibitions where I can shoot from one of the hockey player boxes. I can't say that it really helps sharpen the image vs. hand-held. But, after about a half hour of constant tracking of skaters, some fatigue sets in and the monopod makes it easier for me to track skaters while constantly following with the zoom ring. For other indoor school sports, like basketball and volleyball, I free hand it. A monopod would get in the way.
> 
> FYI, small world. That local rink that I shoot at isn't far from the Xcel Center.



Small world indeed...funny.

Did you notice the team names on the jerseys or was it the Xcel post that you first noticed the MN connection?

How about this jersey?

1dx and 70-200
3200 iso
3.2
1/800


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## FTb-n (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't follow hockey, but would recognize the Wild, the Gophers, and the old North Stars. I grew up here in the 60's and "north star" means hockey, not a light in the sky. Your nickname made me suspect Minnesota, but it was this from your April 4 post that gave it away.



Northstar said:


> A couple shots from the Minnesota HS state hockey tournament....both through the glass...70-200ii



You have a knack for capturing the moment. I particularly like the shot with the player in the black jersey seemingly levitating above the ice. How much of this do you credit to timing vs. a capture from a 12 fps burst.

Most of my sports action has been with a 7D. 8 fps is nice, but I can't rely on it in figure skating. When you start photographing skaters in jumps, you realize that 80-90% of their air time is less than flattering when frozen in time. 8 fps isn't fast enough to reliable capture that prize moment.


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## Northstar (Apr 6, 2013)

FTb-n said:


> I don't follow hockey, but would recognize the Wild, the Gophers, and the old North Stars. I grew up here in the 60's and "north star" means hockey, not a light in the sky. Your nickname made me suspect Minnesota, but it was this from your April 4 post that gave it away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I thought you might have noticed the Edina or Hill-Murray jerseys.

The 12fps absolutely gets me stuff that my 5d3's 6fps can't get....as you know, a lot can happen in 1-2 seconds if people are moving. Luck plays a huge role, I shot a game once where the final score was 4-1, and I was on the wrong end of the ice for 4 of the 5 goals, and the one goal I was close to I was blocked by the referee...0-5.


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## Pakneh (Feb 26, 2014)

I am trying to improve my sports photography and I am hoping that the expert opinions which abound on this sight can provide me some pointers. I am shooting with a canon 7D, Tamron 70-200 2.8vc, Settings SERVO and AF POINT EXPANSION, custom white balance.

The Arena lighting is.....terrible and my shots are not as sharp as I would hope as I frequently have to adjust to ISO 2000. I also posses a 6D which is able to handle those higher ISO levels but trades off the frame rate. 
Recommends?


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## tolusina (Feb 26, 2014)

Video presentation of Jeff Cable at B&H..........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLnJotyT6o
That video is over a year old, says he's a three time Olympic Photographer, he's just back from Sochi, makes him a four timer. 
He also a hockey player.
http://www.jeffcable.com/
I like his style and methods a lot, he tends to keep things a lot simpler than many other top pros yet still gets amazing results.

edit....... Jeff's presentations often have at least one somewhat glaring flaw, he repeatedly mentions "Back Focusing" which is an auto focus anomalous error, I'm about 100% certain that he means "Back Button Focus", yes, do do that. 







.


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## Northstar (Feb 27, 2014)

Pakneh said:


> I am trying to improve my sports photography and I am hoping that the expert opinions which abound on this sight can provide me some pointers. I am shooting with a canon 7D, Tamron 70-200 2.8vc, Settings SERVO and AF POINT EXPANSION, custom white balance.
> 
> The Arena lighting is.....terrible and my shots are not as sharp as I would hope as I frequently have to adjust to ISO 2000. I also posses a 6D which is able to handle those higher ISO levels but trades off the frame rate.
> Recommends?



ISO 2000 is the max(imo) for the 7D so if you're shooting with a 70-200 at ISO 2000, f2.8, and 1/500 and it's still too dark, then you have no choice but to switch to the 6D and shoot at ISO 3200 or 4000. (with hockey you should ideally expose to the right anyway 1/4 to 1/2 stop to see under their helmets a little bit better)

"shooting to the right" is important in hockey, check your histogram.

for hockey, 1/500 is a bare minimum when lighting is terrible. 1/640 is ok/fine, 1/800 or above is ideal.


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## FTb-n (Feb 28, 2014)

Pakneh, sharp and noisy is better than clean and blurry. I've shot thousands of images of figure skaters with a 7D and the Canon 70-200 f2.8. Early on, I regretted not going higher with both ISO and shutter speed. Don't be afraid of 3200-4000 (even 6400) with the 7D. If you don't already have Lightroom, get it. It's noise reduction is quite good.

Like Northstar said, expose to the right. Overexpose 1/3 to 2/3 stops. This will actually reduce some of the noise since more pixels will be exposed to more information. Correcting for exposure and noise in Lightroom will give you some good results.

I would most often shoot JPGs to maximize the 7D's burst rates (and, admittedly save some disk space). But, now it's all RAW. RAW cleans up better and I don't rely on the burst rate as often as I anticipated.

Best advice -- experiment. Next time you shoot, try shooting higher ISO than you're used to, or shoot RAW if you don't, and play with shutter speeds. I prefer 1/640-1/1000 for figure skating and would presume similar speeds for hockey, at least for the players. The puck may still be blurred.

Absolutely give the 6D a try. I now use a 5D3 and went from 8 fps from the 7D to 6 fps of the 5D3. For figure skating, I can't fully rely on either frame rate to make up for poorly timed shots. (This is where the 12 fps of the 1Dx may shine.) 

So, with the 6D, you will need to work on your timing and your tracking with that single focus point. I'm guessing that the 6D doesn't have expansion points. This will be a challenge, but it will certainly sharpen your skills. Again, the key here is to experiment. Give the 6D a try.

FWIW, at the rink that I shoot, I typically shoot at f2.8, 1/800-1/1000, and ISO 3200-4000.


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## Pakneh (Mar 7, 2014)

I just want to say thanks to FTB-n, tolusina and NorthStar for all the advice. The forum community here is very helpful and the primary reason I frequent this site. I just wanted post an update, I am currently shooting at a Hockey Tourney fundraiser for the LNHL in Ontario and have swapped my 7D for my wife's 6D. I am applying the advice you all provided and am having much improved results in acquiring more "keeper" photos. 

Once again, thanks for the advice and I have two more days hockey photography to put to practice!

-Pakneh


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## Northstar (Mar 7, 2014)

Pakneh said:


> I just want to say thanks to FTB-n, tolusina and NorthStar for all the advice. The forum community here is very helpful and the primary reason I frequent this site. I just wanted post an update, I am currently shooting at a Hockey Tourney fundraiser for the LNHL in Ontario and have swapped my 7D for my wife's 6D. I am applying the advice you all provided and am having much improved results in acquiring more "keeper" photos.
> 
> Once again, thanks for the advice and I have two more days hockey photography to put to practice!
> 
> -Pakneh



good improvements Pakneh....make sure you look at the image in post editing for ways to improve the image...boosting exposure usually helps with hockey to see their faces a bit better. 

it looks like you're really in a dark ice arena if you're shooting at iso8000....tough conditions.

i took the liberty (i hope you don't take offense) to show you what I would do with the last image...

straighten..cropped...add exp...a little contrast..sharpening...added some light to the players face...and noise reduction.

obviously i'm just working with a small jpeg file and would be better with RAW.

unless you're planning to print it out in a larger size(rare now days) don't be afraid to crop it tighter to bring us closer to the action. with sports, there's a reason why people pay more for the front row. 

looking forward to seeing more!


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## Pakneh (Mar 10, 2014)

Well the Sagamok Family Hockey Tournament has come to an end this year, and all fundraising goals were met, I am proud to say my photography booth contributed $250, half the days work to our LNHL teams. Once again I have to thank you all for the advice and guidance. I'd like to contribute to the forum discussion on hockey with regard to my experience over the weekend. 

*The abundant technical advice here is awesome, so I do not think I need to add anything else to that but in terms of tips here is what I have to say!

1. Fans are an integral part of the hockey experience, I regret not taking the time to mingle amongst the audience and capture all the drama and emotion they exude with every puck pass and goal!

2. Depending on how much access you have, try and get shots of the players on bench. For this tourney I had unrestricted access all around the arena. Side portraits of players on bench is great because you witness the exhaustion, will power and mettle these players have. You can lower you shutter speed because they are not moving at 20km/h It is also a great way to break up a couple hundred photos of people wearing helmets and skating real fast. 

3. Take the time to get comfortable with "Register Camera settings" which designates the settings for "C1" C2" and "C3" on your mode dial. I had my camera settings prepped for three different lighting conditions, those being "on ice" bench/audience bleachers and inner hall/cafeteria. You be far more productive this way, instead of constantly switching up lighting, aperture, speed and iso as you move about the arena. 

4. This pointer maybe specific to my case of total unrestricted access, switch sides of the arena half way through each period to provide both sides the opportunity to be photographed "in action" 

5. Did not do this shot this year, but I like to do one behind the goalie and behind the protective glass, where it is a long exposure where the goalie is motionless and the players are a blur either in the distance or coming his/her way.

6. Make use of any opportunity for a new angle or perspective. A goalie was injured during one of the games(nothing serious), so I went on ice and got photos of the two teams mingling with their friends, family, team mates and fellow players.

7. Some of the best photos occurred during warm ups. Such as father providing his daughter a crash course in hockey scrapping. Just to note fighting is banned at the tourney but this mock scrap with a daughter trying to tune her dad up was fun to catch on camera.

8. When players exhale their breath turns to mist and can either add some atmosphere to your photo or.....add this layer of grey that kinda kills your portrait. Get your timing down! 

Things to note, I did not shot raw for this tourney as I had my wife manning the print station and she was feeling intimidated by the software. She got over it by day 2 but for expediency sake I stayed with JPEG for action shots and shot RAW for team photos. The first day was in regards to selling prints a flop. No one wanted action shots, they wanted team photos and players themselves did not stay when their game ended. This is a fundraiser tourney and many of them had work in morning, so I can't blame them. All our sales came on the last day when everyone was at the tourney for the finals and we had lots of team photos. A great inefficiency to profit was actually "action shots" where we would have a customer search for over 5- 10 minutes for a good photo of themselves or a relative on ice, thinking a separate PC and printer for those photos in the future.

One of the best take aways for this event for me was that it killed my lingering case of Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I shot the entire thing with a 6d/70-200mm and a flash without a fancy diffuser. I am way more interested in refining my technique with what I have and not thinking about how a new piece of equipment will make me a better photographer. That is where this forum came in, so once again thank you! Chi-Meegwetch


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## Northstar (Mar 11, 2014)

Pakneh said:


> Well the Sagamok Family Hockey Tournament has come to an end this year, and all fundraising goals were met, I am proud to say my photography booth contributed $250, half the days work to our LNHL teams. Once again I have to thank you all for the advice and guidance. I'd like to contribute to the forum discussion on hockey with regard to my experience over the weekend.
> 
> *The abundant technical advice here is awesome, so I do not think I need to add anything else to that but in terms of tips here is what I have to say!
> 
> ...




some good shots Pakneh....question, are those two people fighting in the first image? 

anyway, it sounds like you learned a lot, that's the most important thing.

look at image 1 and 4....remember to STRAIGHTEN ....very easy and quick fix. 

good luck


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## Pakneh (Mar 11, 2014)

The first picture is the father daughter sparring match I mentioned, for this particular tourney any fight on ice results in both teams being banned from next years fundraiser.


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## FTb-n (Apr 8, 2014)

Pakneh said:


> 3. Take the time to get comfortable with "Register Camera settings" which designates the settings for "C1" C2" and "C3" on your mode dial. I had my camera settings prepped for three different lighting conditions, those being "on ice" bench/audience bleachers and inner hall/cafeteria. You be far more productive this way, instead of constantly switching up lighting, aperture, speed and iso as you move about the arena.



I have also found this quite useful for the same reasons.

Glad to have helped and I, too, love this site for sharing and learning from others.

Action shots for a fundraiser is difficult. To get "the shot" you end up shooting lots of images. If you need to turn this around for print-ready images before skaters or family leave the arena, there's no time to filter and post process anything. And, you don't want to filter too much because you want family to find at least one shot of their skater.

At figure skating competitions, we hire a photography group who uses one photographer at rink side getting action shots and a second in a meeting room getting solo and group shots of medalists. The photos are downloaded to a server and they use several laptops for participants to view and select their photos. The vast majority of their sales occur during the competition. It's rare that anyone buys online. A benefit from the competition is that many skaters enter different events which are often scattered throughout the three day event. So, they have time between events to view their photos.

If you find a solution to make action shots profitable for a fundraiser, please share.


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## Northstar (Apr 8, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> Pakneh said:
> 
> 
> > 3. Take the time to get comfortable with "Register Camera settings" which designates the settings for "C1" C2" and "C3" on your mode dial. I had my camera settings prepped for three different lighting conditions, those being "on ice" bench/audience bleachers and inner hall/cafeteria. You be far more productive this way, instead of constantly switching up lighting, aperture, speed and iso as you move about the arena.
> ...



good advice FTb!

how about that winter we just had? :'(

earlier you asked about the 12fps and how much it contributes to getting "the shot". i think it contributes greatly! for serious sports photography, the 1dx can't be beat. in a few years when the next 1 series comes out and the current 1dx is being sold in the used market for $3500, it might be worth consideration.

here's an example....this capture was from a burst of about 20 images....i wouldn't have got this shot with my 5d3 because the window of time where the puck is viewable(between the goalie's glove and the net) as she shoots is maybe 1/15th of a second? 

1/640
iso4000
f2.8

ps...are you still shooting figure skating?


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## FTb-n (Apr 9, 2014)

Great shot, Northstar. I'll definitely have to watch 1Dx prices when it's successor comes out.

Regarding winter, I hope it's really over. Summer is supposed to arrive tomorrow for a brief visit. I'm hoping it likes it here well enough to return after spring -- if we get one this year.

I'm entering the busy season. Right now warming up with 7-8 grade volleyball -- timing the shots have to be a lot easier than timing puck action. The big ice show is in a few weeks and a competition in May.


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## jdramirez (Apr 11, 2014)

Here's my Hockey Rink.

/------------------------\
/ \
l l
\ /
\ /
--- - -------------------

I would try and use the natural foreground and background. I'd place myself right next to the glass, and shoot with in portrait mode with the goalie and the net at the bottom right of the frame and maybe someone doing a one timer in the rest of the frame. 

That's all I got... I don't know hockey very well... but I guess maybe being close to where players get checked into the glass... because that might be cool... so a 16-35 might be a good option. Having a 2nd with off camera flash might be good and you can position them at 4p.m. in relation to you... but even that... that might have a horrible reflection off the glass. Damn glass.


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## Roo (Jun 28, 2014)

I've been looking at this thread since it started and been looking forward to trying out some of the invaluable tips you guys have provided. I will finally get to try them out when I shoot my first game here tomorrow night I've got the 5D3 and 70-200 2.8 set up and ready to go and got a rubber lens hood for the occasional shot when I can put the camera against the glass. One shot I would like to try is a slow shutter panning shot with a skater/s going past a blurred team bench. Not sure I'll get a chance but do you think that's a do-able shot?


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## Roo (Jun 29, 2014)

Well I did my first hockey shoot. Apart from a couple of dodgy bulbs, the light was reasonably good in the middle of the rink but it dropped off a bit at the edges. I learned not to chase the puck - shoot ahead or behind because that's where the action usually is. A few times I focused on the goalie when the puck was in the area and listened for the shot and then hit the shutter for a burst. Other times I would look behind the puck for the body checks. Overall it was fast and fun


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## Northstar (Jun 29, 2014)

Roo said:


> Well I did my first hockey shoot. Apart from a couple of dodgy bulbs, the light was reasonably good in the middle of the rink but it dropped off a bit at the edges. I learned not to chase the puck - shoot ahead or behind because that's where the action usually is. A few times I focused on the goalie when the puck was in the area and listened for the shot and then hit the shutter for a burst. Other times I would look behind the puck for the body checks. Overall it was fast and fun



Nice shots Roo! You caught some good action and you nailed your exposure!


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## Roo (Jul 10, 2014)

Northstar said:


> Roo said:
> 
> 
> > Well I did my first hockey shoot. Apart from a couple of dodgy bulbs, the light was reasonably good in the middle of the rink but it dropped off a bit at the edges. I learned not to chase the puck - shoot ahead or behind because that's where the action usually is. A few times I focused on the goalie when the puck was in the area and listened for the shot and then hit the shutter for a burst. Other times I would look behind the puck for the body checks. Overall it was fast and fun
> ...



Thanks Northstar! I really appreciated being able to take advantage of the advice offered freely by yourself and others in this thread. I also had a 7d shooting friend at the rink who was able to provide local advice. I normally shoot 9 point expansion mode and this was the first time I took full advantage of the 61 point af and it was stellar - hardly an oof shot in amongst 500+. Most of my misses were caused by some obstruction (usually a ref) getting between me and the action. It looks like I may be given a few more opportunities next season


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## Northstar (Jul 10, 2014)

glad you're having fun shooting hockey!!

as i said, your shots are very good...could easily be used for professional coverage!

if posting for online and small print use only, you could crop a couple a little bit more like this example i provided....it brings the viewer in closer to the action like being in the front row.

it's all subjective though...your composition looks great too!

original and then one that i cropped a bit more.


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## Roo (Jul 25, 2014)

Thanks for the advice and compliments Northstar! Nicely pointed out about the extra crop - removing the extra bit of stick that added nothing to the photo certainly refocused it.

I did my second shoot last weekend and the game was a bit more willing - I lost count of the penalty minutes lol. I decided to try some slow shutter panning during the warm up. I got a couple of just ok shots but definitely wouldn't try it in game until I improved a lot more.


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## FTb-n (Jul 25, 2014)

Roo, I like the controlled motion blur of your slow shutter speed shot and would rank it much better than "ok".
Panning with slow shutter speeds was a necessity before high ISO digital cameras, but it's easy to forget about this technique when you don't need it for proper exposure. Definitely keep working it. You've reminded me to do the same when I shoot figure skating.


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## jdramirez (Jul 25, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> Roo, I like the controlled motion blur of your slow shutter speed shot and would rank it much better than "ok".
> Panning with slow shutter speeds was a necessity before high ISO digital cameras, but it's easy to forget about this technique when you don't need it for proper exposure. Definitely keep working it. You've reminded me to do the same when I shoot figure skating.



I was at a minor league baseball game yesterday and they had photos of stars from today and yesterday blown up to around 24x30... and I could hardly believe what passed for action shots back in the 70's and 80's. They were grainy and looked out of focus... not to mention the slow shutter speeds really didn't help. 

I know it isn't a fair comparison, but I'm still blown away.


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## jdramirez (Jul 25, 2014)

And slow exposures can be timeless. Who doesn't think of the one national geographic shot any time you hear about a whirling dirbish...


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## jdramirez (Nov 7, 2014)

I'm going to take a stab at shooting hockey tonight... I'll let y'all know how bad of a job I do.


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## Roo (Nov 7, 2014)

Good luck jd Looking forward to seeing the results.


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## jdramirez (Nov 7, 2014)

Roo said:


> Good luck jd Looking forward to seeing the results.



Are there cheerleaders @ hockey games... I would not guess, because their HIGH BEAMS would be on all night long...


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## jdramirez (Nov 8, 2014)

I haven't watched hockey for the joy of it since 1996... whenever the Carolina Panthers fans were throwing rats onto the ice. So I have no instincts for the sport... not the way I do for basketball and football. 

And can I say... the game is a lot faster than I was expecting... sure I'd like the puck in the frame, but I was thinking I would be able to take some long (.5 second) shots and pan across the ice... and that really didn't happen... and the plastic glass they use... wow... that is so scuffed... and I was shooting close to the glass to blur the scuffs into the foreground, but when the light reflects off of it... geesh. I don't envy the task of doing this often.

I shot at f/2.8 on my 70-200 and I was happy enough with the shots... I could have zoomed in more... but I understand I didn't want to cut off heads.. and then f/1.2 with my 85L mkii... and the AF was faster than I was expecting... but even with the distance to the subject, the DOF wasn't that great... and everyone was wearing a mask... so EVEN if I focused on their face... it wouldn't have helped that much because I would have still be 3 inches away from their face/eyes... so I like the f/1.2 shots... enough that I don't mind the faces being blah...

Then I shot some long exposures using a monopod and they were ok... I was trying to get the speed of the game, but @ a 1/4 of a second, I still wasn't getting the look of exactly what I wanted... so I'm thinking of trying again at an faster speeds, but until I get it just right... just enough blur... that it looks like what I envision.

I saved the shots @ 58% of .jpg via lightroom... so they aren't the best in image quality, but I didn't feel like uploading overnight. And excuse the GIANT copyright... I'm sending them to a team manager for the team in white... 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157648769889669/

OH... and for some reason, stupid windows photo viewer is showing the images a good 1 or 2 stops darker than what they are... so that is annoying... and I had to fight with LR5 to get the copyright even on the images... so it was a rough night... 

and as a quick side note before I go to bed... I didn't notice the CA until I was halfway through... so the purple glow should be gone after all is said and done. and I think the WB is off... so... yeah... it is a very rough draft... but it is something to get better @


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## Roo (Nov 8, 2014)

I understand what you are saying. It's fast, the screens are dirty and scuffed, most times the rink lighting sucks but after all that your shots still came out good and will look better with some work in lightroom  The shot with the goalie in focus but the players blurred is something I was thinking of trying. It gives a surreal sense to the goalie's position - calm and focused while everything around is chaos.


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## jdramirez (Nov 8, 2014)

Roo said:


> I understand what you are saying. It's fast, the screens are dirty and scuffed, most times the rink lighting sucks but after all that your shots still came out good and will look better with some work in lightroom  The shot with the goalie in focus but the players blurred is something I was thinking of trying. It gives a surreal sense to the goalie's position - calm and focused while everything around is chaos.



I'm fighting with Lightroom, my screen, and my photo viewer... I can't get the shot to look like it should... and I used xrite... So it is a work in progress.


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## Roo (Dec 15, 2014)

Currently shooting a junior ice hockey international series. These were from the first game ever to be played here with a pink puck.


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## jdramirez (Dec 15, 2014)

Good angle on the goalie shot. At my arena, it is curved and it just is blurry and bends the light in an awful way... Out at least that's my perception of what is going on.


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## Raptors (Dec 16, 2014)

Great pictures everyone!!

I shoot a lot of hockey, mainly tournaments. We shoot with a 300mm 2.8 II and we have the advance of shooting from the bench, so we don't have to shoot through the glass.


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## jdramirez (Dec 16, 2014)

Raptors said:


> Great pictures everyone!!
> 
> I shoot a lot of hockey, mainly tournaments. We shoot with a 300mm 2.8 II and we have the advance of shooting from the bench, so we don't have to shoot through the glass.



The guy in the 2nd shot looks like Mitt Romney.


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## Yoyomalu8 (Dec 18, 2014)

Roo said:


> Thanks for the advice and compliments Northstar! Nicely pointed out about the extra crop - removing the extra bit of stick that added nothing to the photo certainly refocused it.
> 
> I did my second shoot last weekend and the game was a bit more willing - I lost count of the penalty minutes lol. I decided to try some slow shutter panning during the warm up. I got a couple of just ok shots but definitely wouldn't try it in game until I improved a lot more.


Good tips,nice photos! 






---------------------------------------------
étui galaxy alpha
housse samsung galaxy alpha


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## cellomaster27 (Mar 5, 2015)

I was asked to shoot a hockey game just last weekend at the SAP center, home for SJ Sharks! I read plenty before going especially since I've never been to a hockey game. I only hear that its challenging and yes, I can attest to that! But it was so much fun, though my gear was lacking in ways. Also didn't get access to the "holes" so I had to shoot through the plexiglass. meh. Shot with SL1 and 85mm 1.8. Advice/tips are greatly appreciated!


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## cellomaster27 (Mar 5, 2015)

one more.


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## Northstar (Mar 5, 2015)

cellomaster27 said:


> one more.



Nice shots cello...sounds like fun!

Editing can help hockey photos quite a bit...it seems like i almost always have to bump the exposure and shadows in PP when shooting hockey because there usually isn't enough light to begin with. Also, with shots through the glass, the image sometimes is a little cloudy, but adding some contrast will usually diminish the cloudiness.

I edited your second photo by raising the exposure and shadows, and cropping a bit more. What do you think?


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## Yeayea (Mar 5, 2015)

Looks good Northstar. I'll be shooting my first hockey game next weekend and read through your posts, which have some really great tips. Thanks


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## cellomaster27 (Mar 5, 2015)

Northstar said:


> cellomaster27 said:
> 
> 
> > one more.
> ...



Ah yes! That looks so much better!! Thank you!

I'm always looking for better glass.. not that the 85mm isn't great but I realized how useful a zoom could be. Maybe I need to plan for a sigma 120-300 2.8? or even tamron 70-200 2.8. f4 is not going to work! Ideally, I'm thinking the 7D II with a fast zoom lens.


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## Pakneh (Mar 5, 2015)

I would say the arena lighting has the biggest impact on your photos, second being aperture of your lens. I used the Tamron 70-200 VC on the 7D, 6D and 7D Mark 2. To each their own advantages, but the 7d Mark2's Flicker setting is a game changer for crappy arena lighting. I could not comment on the Sigma 120-300 or Canon 70-200 but the Tamron certainly is the speediest of my lenses and depending where you set up can cover the net to middle of the arena. Good Luck!


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## Northstar (Mar 5, 2015)

cellomaster27 said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > cellomaster27 said:
> ...



Cello...For sports like hockey, the speed and accuracy of the AF is also critical...in this regard, canon lenses are best as far as I know...not sure on the others. 

I've shot hockey with the canon 85 1.8 at f2.2 and it works pretty well in poor light for short range shots in the corners. The canon 70-200 2.8ii is sooooo good though.


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## Northstar (Mar 5, 2015)

Yeayea said:


> Looks good Northstar. I'll be shooting my first hockey game next weekend and read through your posts, which have some really great tips. Thanks



Yeayea... good luck next weekend!

Thanks for your kind words.


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## Roo (Apr 28, 2015)

Ok I've taken a voluntary role with one of the teams in the national league here this season and the first game was last weekend. 

We've all submitted our images for the game and I really can't believe some of the rubbish put forward especially by one that classes himself as a pro. He is one of the league's paid guys using a 1Dx and, while his exposure is mostly ok, his white balance is inconsistent and he uses far too much contrast losing the detail in the uniforms with the blacks are really just blobs. Of the rest, 2 are really good although one of those needs to use noise reduction more often and the others just underexpose everything and crop poorly. As for myself I was feeling a bit rusty with my timing being a bit off but still got some passable shots. All round it was interesting introduction to pro sports ;D


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## jdramirez (Apr 28, 2015)

I get to contrast someone... Who am I kidding, all the time. The last team I shot had deep navy blue team colors... And I find it hard to distinguish that from being black when a moderate amount of contrast was used. 

Also... You know that we take 100's of photos at any event, but normally we only show the top 5% because they will take your breathe away... So maybe his contact is 100% submission regardless if it is mediocre or not. 



Roo said:


> Ok I've taken a voluntary role with one of the teams in the national league here this season and the first game was last weekend.
> 
> We've all submitted our images for the game and I really can't believe some of the rubbish put forward especially by one that classes himself as a pro. He is one of the league's paid guys using a 1Dx and, while his exposure is mostly ok, his white balance is inconsistent and he uses far too much contrast losing the detail in the uniforms with the blacks are really just blobs. Of the rest, 2 are really good although one of those needs to use noise reduction more often and the others just underexpose everything and crop poorly. As for myself I was feeling a bit rusty with my timing being a bit off but still got some passable shots. All round it was interesting introduction to pro sports ;D


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## Northstar (Apr 28, 2015)

Roo said:


> Ok I've taken a voluntary role with one of the teams in the national league here this season and the first game was last weekend.
> 
> We've all submitted our images for the game and I really can't believe some of the rubbish put forward especially by one that classes himself as a pro. He is one of the league's paid guys using a 1Dx and, while his exposure is mostly ok, his white balance is inconsistent and he uses far too much contrast losing the detail in the uniforms with the blacks are really just blobs. Of the rest, 2 are really good although one of those needs to use noise reduction more often and the others just underexpose everything and crop poorly. As for myself I was feeling a bit rusty with my timing being a bit off but still got some passable shots. All round it was interesting introduction to pro sports ;D



sounds like fun Roo... would love to see some of the photos!


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## FTb-n (Apr 28, 2015)

Northstar said:


> earlier you asked about the 12fps and how much it contributes to getting "the shot". i think it contributes greatly! for serious sports photography, the 1dx can't be beat. in a few years when the next 1 series comes out and the current 1dx is being sold in the used market for $3500, it might be worth consideration.


Northstar, I dove into 1Dx-land with the recent falling prices and shot our local ice show this past weekend. The 1Dx is a dream to work with, and the 12 fps did up my keeper rate for shots of skaters in mid-jump. 

For both single and double rotation jumps, I was able to get a bunch of sharp images with the skater facing the camera. But, I learned something. Every skater has a different facial expression during a jump and and many would not want these images posted. It's a lot easier for them to smile during a splits jump.

I'm amazed at the high ISO image quality with the 1Dx. Most shots were at ISO 8,000 f2.8 (70-200), and 1/800.

While not an action shot, here's a favorite:


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## dolina (Apr 29, 2015)

Know your camera in and out
Know the game in and out
Know the players in and out
Bring enough memory cards and batteries
Keep a cool disposition
Follow the rules of the venue


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## Northstar (Apr 29, 2015)

FTb-n said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > earlier you asked about the 12fps and how much it contributes to getting "the shot". i think it contributes greatly! for serious sports photography, the 1dx can't be beat. in a few years when the next 1 series comes out and the current 1dx is being sold in the used market for $3500, it might be worth consideration.
> ...



FTb-n...Glad to hear you're enjoying the 1dx! It truly is an amazing camera.
Love the photo you posted...beautiful!


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## Roo (May 1, 2015)

jd - I get what you mean about shooting hundreds of photos but only showing a 5%. However, I got to shoot next to him last night and it's really off putting when someone has their finger mashed to the shutter button of a 1Dx all game ;D During the course of the game I took about 500 shots but I'd guess that he took closer to 2000 or so. At times I'd was wondering what the hell he was shooting because there was zero happening. I get that you might want to get a shot of the lonely goalie when the action is up the other end of the rink but he shot a 2 second burst. I think I'd put him in the category that believes better gear makes you a better photog. Anyway it doesn't really matter what he does in the end because I'm doing something I enjoy and it's appreciated by the club. The reason I brought it up was because it was my first time shooting a sport with a supposed pro tog lol. 

FTb-n - spectacular shot in those conditions. You're certainly putting the 1Dx to good use 

Northstar - it is fun. I've attached a few shots so far. I hope you like the 3 legged skater haha


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## Roo (May 3, 2015)

Some from the latest game


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## FTb-n (May 3, 2015)

Roo, you are certainly nailing the hockey shots. I particularly like the flying players two posts ago and I love the controlled motion blur in your most recent post. The motion blur was something that I tried to do during the ice show, but found it tough to put all the pieces together -- a skater moving in a straight line (and not jumping), a background to blur, no other skaters in the foreground, and a spotlight on your subject. I can imagine hockey has its own challenges in getting this shot with other players on the ice and with your subject moving erratically to avoid them.


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## Roo (May 4, 2015)

Thanks FTb-n! You have actually picked my 2 favourites as well  When I did the under 18's international series in December, they had a a couple of ice show demos in the breaks. I tried to do some slow shutter with them but I found it difficult and got nothing worth keeping, so I know what you mean.


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## Roo (Jul 5, 2015)

Thanks to Fox Sports I tried a couple of things I wouldn't normally do at the latest game. When they televise a game here they insist on having the top netting pulled aside so I rode on their coattails and went high in the stands for a different perspective. I used the Samyang 14mm to shoot the national anthems (US anthem was played for the 4th of July) and puck drop. I then switched to the Tamron 150-600 for the rest of the first period. I had to switch iso up to 5000 and my keeper rate was lower but I did get some shots I wouldn't normally get.


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## Northstar (Nov 28, 2015)

A couple shots from last weekend. 
One of the local rinks installed new LED lighting that allowed me to shoot at ISO 1600...last year it would’ve been ISO3200 or higher.
I’ve shot at two indoor ice arenas since the hockey season has started that have had their lighting upgraded to LED, and it’s been a big improvement....roughly 1 to 1.5 full stops better at each.


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## Northstar (Nov 29, 2015)

after a little more thought...here’s a shot taken at 1/1250th, f3.5, ISO 3200. I have no fears of shooting the 1dx at ISO 3200, so I gave the light to my aperture and shutter speed...but as you can see, i could’ve shot this at f 4.0, ISO 1600 and 1/500th (if my math is right) (i’m drinking beer on a Sat night so it might not be..ha ha) 

my point is that lower quality gear will be able to take great photos of indoor sports more and more now and in the near future as LED light prices continue to fall and lighting systems are upgraded for cost saving reasons.


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## zCanadia (Nov 30, 2015)

I've always struggled with hockey photos-- not sure if that's a gear related drawback or myself lol.


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## Jaysheldon (Dec 28, 2015)

Hi
Finally got to test my new 6D with a 70-200 f4 IS at an arena in Toronto and am pleased with the high ISO performance compared to my cropped 60D (miss the faster fps, though) at least on a computer screen-- I have no trouble trusting the 6D at 6400. I've attached one image, reduced without any edit (which may be too small). Shot at 1/400 sec at f5. 
(One thing, though: I shot though the glass. If you look at the guy on the right the colour of his pants change -- I'm pretty sure that's the reflection of a window behind and to the right of me.)
As for focus, I pre-focused with AF (often in One Shot) on the goalie or the goal post and waited for action. Haven't figured out BB Focus and AI Servo for sports. Should I focus on a player, then keep BB pressed?


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## Roo (Dec 28, 2015)

Northstar said:


> A couple shots from last weekend.
> One of the local rinks installed new LED lighting that allowed me to shoot at ISO 1600...last year it would’ve been ISO3200 or higher.
> I’ve shot at two indoor ice arenas since the hockey season has started that have had their lighting upgraded to LED, and it’s been a big improvement....roughly 1 to 1.5 full stops better at each.



That lighting looks really good Northstar and I hope it's part of the stadium upgrade they're planning here.


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## Roo (Dec 28, 2015)

Jaysheldon said:


> Hi
> Finally got to test my new 6D with a 70-200 f4 IS at an arena in Toronto and am pleased with the high ISO performance compared to my cropped 60D (miss the faster fps, though) at least on a computer screen-- I have no trouble trusting the 6D at 6400. I've attached one image, reduced without any edit (which may be too small). Shot at 1/400 sec at f5.
> (One thing, though: I shot though the glass. If you look at the guy on the right the colour of his pants change -- I'm pretty sure that's the reflection of a window behind and to the right of me.)
> As for focus, I pre-focused with AF (often in One Shot) on the goalie or the goal post and waited for action. Haven't figured out BB Focus and AI Servo for sports. Should I focus on a player, then keep BB pressed?



Welcome Jay. Nice first up shot. 

Shooting through glass at ice hockey will always be a problem with reflections but you can minimise them - wear solid dark clothing so you don't reflect in the shot, minimise your angles and shoot as close to the glass as possible.

In most sports you're better off with AI servo and bb focus. Servo will continue to track the subject while it moves. Using your case of pre-focusing on the goalie, when you do go to take the shot you may miss focus as the goalie is moving across the other side of the goal - with AI servo it will continue to track the goalie as they move. Using bb focus you can start and stop focus when you choose which gives you more flexibility and you can either follow a player or switch to another player. 

Shoot wide open @ f4 and you can either have a slightly faster shutter speed or reduce your iso. Happy shooting!


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## Jaysheldon (Dec 28, 2015)

Hi Roo
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and the compliment. My rule for shooting from the side or a slight angle to the net is not to shoot if the goalie moves past the mid way point of the net. That way I'm not shooting his back.

I thought about shooting wide open, but I want the comfort of a few inches of DoF. (That makes me a coward.....)


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