# Adobe Photoshop CC + LR5 for $10/month now available for everyone!



## hgraf (Nov 21, 2013)

I know some people hate the software subscription model, and I'm normally one of them when asked to pay huge sums of money.

But for someone who doesn't have CS3 and didn't have access to the old deal, this one changes my opinion.

$10/month for LR5 and Photoshop CC is something I couldn't pass up. Hopefully at the year interval they keep the price, I guess we'll see.

Best part is they let you install and use the apps on 2 computers at the same time, irregardless of OS, so my MAC home and my PC laptop both get to play!

https://creative.adobe.com/plans/offer/photoshop+lightroom?sdid=KIHZM

Enjoy!

TTYL


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## distant.star (Nov 21, 2013)

.
Yep, I just noticed this. I'm in!


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## cayenne (Nov 21, 2013)

CS6 Production Pro Suite, and LR5 stand alone still doing just fine with me.

I'm not yet at the point where I could bring myself to *rent *my software, and have my files held ransom by some corporation if I were for any reason to stop paying them.


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## hgraf (Nov 21, 2013)

cayenne said:


> CS6 Production Pro Suite, and LR5 stand alone still doing just fine with me.
> 
> I'm not yet at the point where I could bring myself to *rent *my software, and have my files held ransom by some corporation if I were for any reason to stop paying them.



To counter:

CS6 is EXPENSIVE (about $600+). It's way out of the range of most hobbiest/amatuer type photographers. Add LR5 to that as well (about $100).

The CS6 Production Suite you refer to is even more expensive (I didn't even have a clue how much it cost, BH show about $1600), but obviously includes way more stuff.

That said, for someone interested in JUST photography as a hobby, even $700 is ALOT of money.

For $10/month, assuming Adobe keeps it going, it'll take over 5 YEARS for the "rental" cost to reach the initial acquisition cost of Photoshop+LR. Add to that by "renting" you are getting "free" updates, no "upgrade" costs (including upgrade costs means the 5 year horizon becomes even longer).

Yes, after those 5 years you'll still be able to use your 5 year old software and I won't. Frankly I'm OK with that, historically (and this might just be me) 5 year old software of this sort just isn't that useful to me (some software is). 

That said, the point is moot: Adobe is eliminating boxed software and moving everything to rental. Whether they will be successful with this model is still to be determined. I view this $10/month for everything a good indication that they overpriced their initial offering.

As for the "my files are hostage" argument that is plain rubbish IMHO. Are you seriously concerned about tweaking 5 year old edits? I know when it comes to my editing what I did 5 years ago was RUBBISH. I'm always learning new and better ways to edit, and aside from that my style changes. Edits from 5 years ago just don't look "good" to me anymore. You've always got your original files, so you can edit your 5 year old files as much as you want.

Again, to each his own. For what Adobe was charging initially ($20/month for Photoshop + you still have to buy Lightroom) it wasn't of interest to me. For $120/year OTOH (which is basically the cost of LR itself, which I have to keep relatively up to date due to new camera support) I'm kinda getting PS free, and I'm pretty happy with that!

TTYL


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## danski0224 (Nov 21, 2013)

Anyone know what the current "regular retail" price of this package would be?

The current $10/month pricing is valid for only 12 months, then it reverts to "regular price".

For $10 a month, I'd do it, but if the price goes to much more than that, it isn't attractive to me because I have done most of my messing around in Lightroom even though I have CS5.


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## GmwDarkroom (Nov 21, 2013)

cayenne said:


> I'm not yet at the point where I could bring myself to *rent *my software, and have my files held ransom by some corporation if I were for any reason to stop paying them.


In what way could Adobe hold your files for ransom? You still have the files, originals and worked.


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## GmwDarkroom (Nov 21, 2013)

danski0224 said:


> Anyone know what the current "regular retail" price of this package would be?
> 
> The current $10/month pricing is valid for only 12 months, then it reverts to "regular price".
> 
> For $10 a month, I'd do it, but if the price goes to much more than that, it isn't attractive to me because I have done most of my messing around in Lightroom even though I have CS5.


Bryan and Sean over at The Digital Picture say their contact at Adobe indicated that $10 was the ongoing price so long as you don't fail to pay or cancel.


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## hgraf (Nov 21, 2013)

GmwDarkroom said:


> Bryan and Sean over at The Digital Picture say their contact at Adobe indicated that $10 was the ongoing price so long as you don't fail to pay or cancel.



FWIW I won't rely on statements either way. I think Adobe is still trying to "figure out" the market. By creating this offer it shows that their first stab wasn't hitting the targets they had.

Many Adobe reps have said this price will remain. Many others have said it will change. The agreement I read said they can change it if they want, they'll tell you before they do.

I personally think it's very likely they'll keep the price. I don't see it serving them well to hike it. What would most customers do? Would they take the hike? Probably not since those people would have bit with the initial offering.

I guess we'll see in a years time! 

For now I finally get to play with PS!

TTYL


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## pedroesteban (Nov 21, 2013)

Here's what the Adobe CC Terms and Conditions say:

"Renewal
After the first 12 months, we will automatically renew your contract *based on the current price of the offering*."

Source: http://www.adobe.com/store/en_us/popup/offer/ccm_photoshop_app_offer.html


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## danski0224 (Nov 21, 2013)

pedroesteban said:


> Here's what the Adobe CC Terms and Conditions say:
> 
> "Renewal
> After the first 12 months, we will automatically renew your contract *based on the current price of the offering*."
> ...



Exactly.

$10 a month is $120 a year- not too bad.

At $20 a month, still a reasonable price, but now you are approaching or over the cost of buying the software outright every 3 years- closer to 2 years if you keep up with the upgrade options.

Adobe offers some pretty steep educational discounts, so there is some latitude in the pricing structure for their stand alone software.

I think they will have a winner at $10 a month, sold as $120 upfront.


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## Ruined (Nov 21, 2013)

I gave it a shot, if they up the price in a year I will cancel then. $10/mo is definitely reasonable for photoshop IMO. $20/mo was simply too expensive.

Let's just hope they do a better job with security in the future! 


I totally understand not wanting to rent software. But in reality, you need to upgrade software anyway to stay up to date with latest RAW compatibility, new effects, etc. So its really just a matter of whether the rental price gives enough value for the cost compared to the purchased price.

I believe $10/mo does give that value, while $20/mo does not. 

Another example is Microsoft Office 365. Good value proposition for the price IMO.


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## unfocused (Nov 21, 2013)

As an aside: there is a new feature in Photoshop CC that makes the upgrade more than worth it in my opinion (If they up the price and I have to go back to CS 6 I will be very sad).

Under the filter's menu is a new "Raw" filter that allows you to return to Raw (or some type of virtual-Raw) at any point in your workflow. It is terrific. I don't know how many times I've gotten to a point where I'm almost finished or even finished with all my other adjustments in Photoshop and I look at the image and think: "hmm, I wish I had given it an extra 1/2 stop of exposure or I wish the blacks were a little more deep or I wish the contrast was cranked up just a hair or I wish the color temp were just slightly warmer, etc. etc." 

Yes, you can often fix these with a adjustment layer, but they just don't have the same flexibility and finesse that Raw does. 

Now, I can go back into the Raw dialogue and make these adjustments at any point I choose.


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## Rienzphotoz (Nov 21, 2013)

hgraf said:


> I know some people hate the software subscription model, and I'm normally one of them when asked to pay huge sums of money.
> 
> But for someone who doesn't have CS3 and didn't have access to the old deal, this one changes my opinion.
> 
> ...


WOW! ... that's a really good deal ... thanks for sharing.


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## JPAZ (Nov 21, 2013)

FWIW, I had a "chat" with a sales rep at Adobe, just now. Here's the pertinent part of the transcript:

"info: One moment please while we route your chat to a representative.
info: Thank you for contacting Adobe Sales. My name is Alice. How may I help you today?
Alice: Hi, may I have your first name please?
you: XXXX
Alice: Hi XXXX
Alice: I'll be glad to help you with your purchase today.
you: I am intrigued by the new PS Photography offer. I own CS6, LR 4 and CS4 now.
you: My question is, and I cannot find this out anywhere, is what happens to the monthly price after 1 year?
Alice: The pricing will definitely not change for the current subscribed year. We don’t have that information at the moment.
you: So, in theory, the price might increase after the first year?
Alice: XXXX, I do understand your concern, however, we do not have more information regarding that.
Alice: But you will get an email from Adobe regarding that.
you: If, after the first year, I stop my "cloud" subscription, will LR or CC fucntion as "stand-alone" or will they stop working?
you: ?
Alice: Once you stop the subscription you can not use the software any more.
Alice: However, you can open the files or access the files you have created using the software.
you: OK.Thanks and Bye
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to [email protected] at the end of your chat"

So, I can stick with my standalone software or subscribe not knowing what will happen to the price but knowing that the cloud-based subscription software only works as long as I pay the monthly fee.


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## iam2nd (Nov 21, 2013)

hgraf said:


> ...
> Best part is they let you install and use the apps on 2 computers at the same time, irregardless of OS, so my MAC home and my PC laptop both get to play
> ...



Can you point me to this statement on Adobe's site? I read the FAQ and terms but couldn't find it. That would influence my decision, assuming my current LR3/CS5.5 cannot be installed on two computers (I've never tried - can they?).


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## pedroesteban (Nov 21, 2013)

iam2nd said:


> Can you point me to this statement on Adobe's site? I read the FAQ and terms but couldn't find it. That would influence my decision, assuming my current LR3/CS5.5 cannot be installed on two computers (I've never tried - can they?).



If you bought your LR3 / CS 5.5 new, you should be able to install them on up to 3 computers.


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## hgraf (Nov 21, 2013)

iam2nd said:


> Can you point me to this statement on Adobe's site? I read the FAQ and terms but couldn't find it. That would influence my decision, assuming my current LR3/CS5.5 cannot be installed on two computers (I've never tried - can they?).



On the FAQ page:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html#pslr-bundle

Look in the Getting Started section:

Can I use the software I download from Creative Cloud on multiple computers? 

Yes, you can install and activate Creative Cloud desktop applications on two computers, regardless of operating system, for the individual associated with the Creative Cloud membership. See the product license agreements page for more information.


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## eml58 (Nov 22, 2013)

iam2nd said:


> Can you point me to this statement on Adobe's site? I read the FAQ and terms but couldn't find it. That would influence my decision, assuming my current LR3/CS5.5 cannot be installed on two computers (I've never tried - can they?).



Not sure where it is on the site, but I have CC Suite installed now on my MacPro & my MacBook Pro.

I resisted for some time getting into the "Monthly" business, not in favour of adobe having my Credit Card details, I finally found a reseller in Singapore (Innercom), that gave me an excellent deal for the CC full Suite with a 3 year Lock, cancel anytime, I paid the first year with a Bank Transfer.

I believe the current deal for Photographers @ $10/month represents excellent value, seems to be a 2 year lock on price, so at least for 2 years you really can't go wrong if all you want/need is PS & LR, which most of us get by on just fine. I would cancel my current deal at the end of the first year & flip to this deal, as long as I can use Pay Pal or some form of payment other than Credit Card on line, Adobes recent screw up in allowing customer details to be hacked doesn't fill me with confidence in the security measures at Adobe.

And I've got over the whole "rent software" issue, it's quite honestly where all software companies will be in 5 years.

And with the Adobe system, if you cancel out of the programme and go back to stand alone CS6/LR5, you don't loose anything, you still have your files, your RAW files, your adapted files you will need PS/LR to access, but I save everything in .TIF and to date that works for me.


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## LarryC (Nov 22, 2013)

I signed up for this deal 2 months or so ago when they offered it to anyone who had CS3 or later. I have CS5 and LR4 and upgrade LR every time a new version comes out, which is about every year, so it seemed to me $120/yr for PS and LR vs. $100/yr for Lr only made sense. If they don't increase the price, I'm very happy paying the subscription fee. If they do, I'll revert to CS5 and buy LR on a yearly basis again.


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## jhanken (Nov 22, 2013)

I am the one to blame for authoring the original post on CR Forums about Adobe getting out of the package sales market, and it became like a 30 page rant by everyone. That was never my intent. 

I actually think $10 a month is a pretty great deal for Light Room and Photoshop. Will stay with the versions I own for now, will probably make the jump at the next version if the pricing stays where it is.


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## GaryJ (Nov 22, 2013)

Interesting to note,here in Aus the deal is AUS$9.99 p/m for once we get the same as US,been a long time coming.


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## bitm2007 (Nov 22, 2013)

Hi Guys

Just got the following response from Adobe regarding future pricing 

Hi bitm07

The important thing to note is that the $9.99 price is not an introductory price for a year. This is the regular price for this plan.

We cannot guarantee that the price will stay exactly the same year after year - it may go up, it may go down. We don't have plans to change the price, but just like all of our other prices for our services and products, the prices may change in the future.

Hope this helps.

Thanks

Bev

The full post is at 

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5865031#5865031

The interesting bit for me is that $9.99 (£8.78 for me) is now the regular price for this plan (not $19.99 (£17.58).


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

I don't trust adobe anymore. At some point they will switch there PSD format to make it incompatible with CS6. Then once everyone makes files in that version, wham, they raise the prices. And now you have nowhere to Run except to pay more. It's not about now but it's about the future and to me there is no way I'll pay into that. I'll find alternates instead of funding a bottomless pit.


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## hgraf (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> I don't trust adobe anymore. At some point they will switch there PSD format to make it incompatible with CS6. Then once everyone makes files in that version, wham, they raise the prices. And now you have nowhere to Run except to pay more. It's not about now but it's about the future and to me there is no way I'll pay into that. I'll find alternates instead of funding a bottomless pit.



I'm not the biggest Adobe apologist out there, but come on now? Do we really have to take the conspiracy angle here?

First off, say they DO change PSD in a way that older versions won't open it. So what? MS has done that a bunch of times and the world hasn't ended. Are you saying you want to use the new versions, but once a while switch to the old version? Why? 

And even if you DID want to do that, and even if Adobe DID do that: at WORST you'd loose your ability to modify old edits. SO WHAT?? You'd still have the output of your edits in TIFF (to continue editing in another app if really necessary), and you'd still have the original files to edit again. How often are you going to a file many years old and tweaking an existing edit?

On top of this, the competition has been very successful with opening proprietary formats, there are a few options today that open and convert PSD, if Adobe did what you'd describe it would ignite the competitors to support the "new" PSD so that you'd convert to their product.

Personally, $10/month vs. $700 (+ future upgrades) upfront for the same software is a no brainer. If Adobe will screw around with the conspiracy type methods you describe let them, the market will deal with them appropriately. The world will continue to turn, and the sun will continue to shine.

TTYL


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## 2n10 (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> I don't trust adobe anymore. At some point they will switch there PSD format to make it incompatible with CS6. Then once everyone makes files in that version, wham, they raise the prices. And now you have nowhere to Run except to pay more. It's not about now but it's about the future and to me there is no way I'll pay into that. I'll find alternates instead of funding a bottomless pit.



Why not save your finished work in another format? I don't use Photoshop enough to know exactly what the PSD format does. If it saves your work so you can go back later and make further adjustment to your layers I see your issue.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

hgraf said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I don't trust adobe anymore. At some point they will switch there PSD format to make it incompatible with CS6. Then once everyone makes files in that version, wham, they raise the prices. And now you have nowhere to Run except to pay more. It's not about now but it's about the future and to me there is no way I'll pay into that. I'll find alternates instead of funding a bottomless pit.
> ...



Haha. Try telling that to companies who have thousands of PSDs which need the feature set of the format. IE: A record label I work with. 

They won't be adopting CC solely because that possibility and won't waste a enormous amount of time converting PSDs. Price hikes are a certainty.

If you want to drink the Kool aid, good for you. I will be using my CS6 for along time.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> If you want to drink the Kool aid, good for you. I will be using my CS6 for along time.



What will you do when CS7 comes along with features that would be really beneficial to you and/or your work?


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to drink the Kool aid, good for you. I will be using my CS6 for along time.
> ...



I jumped from cs3 to CS6. I'd probably jump from CS6 to CS8 or 9.

But if it was really good, I'd feel completely comfortable paying the premium knowing that my files are secure with myself at the helm. In short, the user has the power and not so much the company.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> I jumped from cs3 to CS6. I'd probably jump from CS6 to CS8 or 9.
> 
> But if it was really good, I'd feel completely comfortable paying the premium knowing that my files are secure with myself at the helm. In short, the user has the power and not so much the company.



Paying what premium? Unless Adobe changes their strategy (again), if you want CS7, CS8, etc., your only option will be to subscribe to CC at that point. They said no more perpetual licenses...


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I jumped from cs3 to CS6. I'd probably jump from CS6 to CS8 or 9.
> ...


I figured you were speaking hypothetically. Of course adobe ditched CS.  that's why my CS6 will be used a long time.

I also appreciate how you cut my original statement out. Good work.


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## Jim O (Nov 22, 2013)

cayenne said:


> CS6 Production Pro Suite, and LR5 stand alone still doing just fine with me.
> 
> I'm not yet at the point where I could bring myself to *rent *my software, and have my files held ransom by some corporation if I were for any reason to stop paying them.



Still playing that one stringed banjo I see. DNG and TIFF are open standards and any PSD can be converted to either by your current "owned" (permanently leased) software.

I'll say it again. Maybe this time you'll pay attention. Your indignation would seem a lot more righteous if it weren't covered in crap.


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## hgraf (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Haha. Try telling that to companies who have thousands of PSDs which need the feature set of the format. IE: A record label I work with.
> 
> They won't be adopting CC solely because that possibility and won't waste a enormous amount of time converting PSDs. Price hikes are a certainty.
> 
> If you want to drink the Kool aid, good for you. I will be using my CS6 for along time.



So, a company that decided to adopt a proprietary format is balking at the possibility, in the future, that the company they rely on might adopt a DIFFERENT proprietary format?

For a business to be making a decision based on emotion vs. facts is a little disturbing. If this company were REALLY worried they should move to an open format.

That said, are you seriously trying to tell me this business is baulking at $10/month? Even if Adobe raised their price to double, this business can't deal with $20/month for PS?

Anyways, I'm done. Obviously you are locked into this "hold my files ransom" train of thought and nothing I say will sway you. So be it. I'll be enjoying excellent software for much less then I've ever had to pay in the past. 

TTYL


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## Jim O (Nov 22, 2013)

pedroesteban said:


> iam2nd said:
> 
> 
> > Can you point me to this statement on Adobe's site? I read the FAQ and terms but couldn't find it. That would influence my decision, assuming my current LR3/CS5.5 cannot be installed on two computers (I've never tried - can they?).
> ...



I don't know if this is fact but I'll take your word for it. In the past Adobe only allowed installation on one OS. They now allow installation on two computers: two Macs, two Windoze machines, or one of each. Adobe did not in past allow you to use the same license on two OS's. Of course Microsoft still doesn't, neither does Intuit.

In the past Adobe allowed you to switch a current version (or a version just prior to the current one) from one OS to another for free. You needed to deactivate your license and so on, but it did work for people who changed systems. Name me another software vendor who has done this on a $1000+ piece of software.


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## Rienzphotoz (Nov 22, 2013)

Went to sign up but still not available in Qatar


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

hgraf said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Haha. Try telling that to companies who have thousands of PSDs which need the feature set of the format. IE: A record label I work with.
> ...



Obviously you don't recall company's like macromedia and the many others that fell over time. Adobe could hike prices to whatever suits them how would 200 or 300$ a month sound? Not completely unreasonable if they were the only player in town and afterall, it's a professional product? Don't cry when adobe makes those price hikes which will happen, and you decided to stop using PS. You'll be paying every month for eternity and the month you don't. You don't open your files. Have fun with that, I'll be seeking alternatives.


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## hgraf (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Obviously you don't recall company's like macromedia and the many others that fell over time. Adobe could hike prices to whatever suits them how would 200 or 300$ a month sound? Not completely unreasonable if they were the only player in town and afterall, it's a professional product? Don't cry when adobe makes those price hikes which will happen, and you decided to stop using PS. You'll be paying every month for eternity and the month you don't. You don't open your files. Have fun with that, I'll be seeking alternatives.



Of course I remember other companies that went belly up, I don't see what point you are making.

What's with the FUD you are spreading? $300/month? Seriously? You SERIOUSLY think that's where Adobe is headed?

FWIW they AREN'T the only player in town. They don't control the market. They can TRY and charge $300/month, I'm willing to bet few would pay it.

In fact, MY belief is they overpriced their original offer, which is why they now have this $10/month offer. They were testing the market and aimed a little on the high side. The market will determine where they end up. Considering the enthusiasm I've seen over this $10/month plan I think they've figured out the sweet spot. We shall see.

At this point I believe you to be a troll. To state "what happens if it's $300/month" is my evidence. I will not respond to your posts anymore. Have a good day sir.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 22, 2013)

This pricing is apparently a limited time offer, but apparently will be stable pricing for subscribers as long as the subscription doesn't lapse (of course, that policy could be changed at any time). Drop it for a month, you have to resubscribe at then-current rates.

Many people are accumulating more and more recurring monthly bills that are automatically paid electronically. At the same time, credit card fraud and corporate data breaches are increasing dramatically. Several times in the past few years, banks have issued me new credit cards with different numbers due to data breaches at large merchants (TJX, etc.). If I fail to go online and update all the recurring bills, the charges are declined. I wonder how militant Adobe will be about declined charges? In theory, they could treat them as a cancelled subscription...


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## hgraf (Nov 22, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Went to sign up but still not available in Qatar



Yes, their terms seem very arbitrary in some ways.

When I first tried to sign up the first question they asked was my DOB. Mistakingly (it was late at night) I entered my year of birth as 2013! They said I wasn't eligible, and there didn't seem to be a way to correct my error.

Called in, was on hold for about 45 minutes (granted it was very late) and the only resolution was to delete my account and recreate it. I was OK with that. Still, funny that was the only way to resolve it.

The CSR was very friendly and helpful, I'll give Adobe credit for that.

Hoping that they expand the offer to other locals!

TTYL


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

hgraf said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously you don't recall company's like macromedia and the many others that fell over time. Adobe could hike prices to whatever suits them how would 200 or 300$ a month sound? Not completely unreasonable if they were the only player in town and afterall, it's a professional product? Don't cry when adobe makes those price hikes which will happen, and you decided to stop using PS. You'll be paying every month for eternity and the month you don't. You don't open your files. Have fun with that, I'll be seeking alternatives.
> ...



Your nativity is quite amusing. Adobe can do no wrong in your eyes. (Especially with a massive giant adobe CC ad on your website)


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## hgraf (Nov 22, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Many people are accumulating more and more recurring monthly bills that are automatically paid electronically. At the same time, credit card fraud and corporate data breaches are increasing dramatically. Several times in the past few years, banks have issued me new credit cards with different numbers due to data breaches at large merchants (TJX, etc.). If I fail to go online and update all the recurring bills, the charges are declined. I wonder how militant Adobe will be about declined charges? In theory, they could treat them as a cancelled subscription...



I didn't think about that, that's a very good point!

I'd hope that they'd be "OK" with a missed charge as long as you paid up soon after, I can't see their reputation holding up very well if they didn't considering the massive data breach THEY had.

That said, it's a valid point. Pretty much everybody I've worked with has received a call in the past year stating their card was being replaced with a new number due to some fraudulent activity.

TTYL


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## JPAZ (Nov 22, 2013)

Everyone has (for the most part) valid points. I have just changed ALL my passwords again. Let's just say that Adobe's little security issue was nasty.

But, between LR and PS, I tend to upgrade every couple of years. I still use CS4 on occasion (I like or am accustomed to the way it handles some tasks), CS6 when I need it, and LR 4 for the most part. Was looking to go to LR 5 anyway. So, at least for the first year, it is almost a financial wash.

I think I am going to bite the bullet. I will, however, convert my CR2's to TIFF or DNG when I am done with the initial edits to make them more "perpetual" just in case they jump to an unreasonable price down the road. I am the eternal cynic and don't believe this is a forever price. Furthermore, if at some point I want to revert to standalone products, I don't think that will be feasible once I am in to the monthly cloud.

Oh, and Neuro makes a very good point about the credit card issue. I've been a victim of identity theft. I've had cards changed or canceled more than once. Maybe using Paypal will be "safer" but if they consider me "in default" because I don't update my payment information immediatley, that would really stink.

But, I still think I am going to do it.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 22, 2013)

I think that some people here just have a philosophical/emotional problem being considered 'renters' instead of 'owners'.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I think that some people here just have a philosophical/emotional problem being considered 'renters' instead of 'owners'.



Sure if you enjoy leasing you cars and paying rent, by all means. Just don't expect everyone who owned there cars previously now have a lease only option for a newer model.


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## Rienzphotoz (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Adobe could hike prices to whatever suits them how would 200 or 300$ a month sound? Not completely unreasonable if they were the only player in town and afterall, it's a professional product?


I get it that you don't like paying "rent", fine I respect that ... but how did you derive at "$300 a month" figure? surely you don't believe that Adobe is going to be the "only player in town", do you?


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## cayenne (Nov 22, 2013)

hgraf said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > CS6 Production Pro Suite, and LR5 stand alone still doing just fine with me.
> ...



I got the suite for about $550 or so off Amazon.com with install CDs.

I found a local college in town, that for price of only applying, and sending in some transcripts would give me a student picture ID, and a .edu email address. I didn't even have to apply for classes.

I used this to get the education priced edition of the suite. I got LR5 for $79 the same way.

All you have to do,is be a bit creative...and yes, I checked with Adobe FAQ it is perfectly legal and ok to use the educational versions for commercial uses.

I'm working both with photography and videography, so I wanted the full thing, but PS could have been had on its own for much less.

I figure this will keep me for a number of years to come, very seldom has Adobe come out with features that you absolutely can't live without between versions, so I'll wait it out and see if they change their business model, or maybe competitors come out to fill the void. 

It is just a principal as much as anything else. I seriously doubt that that $10/month is going to last more than a year. At some point, if Adobe succeeds and gets everyone hooked into the rental agreement...they can start raising their prices and there's nothing you can do about it if you want to continue to work on your own files.

Not to mention, I'm not that anxious to have Adobe hold my CC informations...their track record for security hasn't been the greatest in the past...

C


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## cayenne (Nov 22, 2013)

unfocused said:


> As an aside: there is a new feature in Photoshop CC that makes the upgrade more than worth it in my opinion (If they up the price and I have to go back to CS 6 I will be very sad).
> 
> Under the filter's menu is a new "Raw" filter that allows you to return to Raw (or some type of virtual-Raw) at any point in your workflow. It is terrific. I don't know how many times I've gotten to a point where I'm almost finished or even finished with all my other adjustments in Photoshop and I look at the image and think: "hmm, I wish I had given it an extra 1/2 stop of exposure or I wish the blacks were a little more deep or I wish the contrast was cranked up just a hair or I wish the color temp were just slightly warmer, etc. etc."
> 
> ...



If you start out making your RAW image into a smart object to bring into PS..you can go back at any time to keep adjusting it, no problem.

This isn't that new, I can do it in CS6.

C


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Adobe could hike prices to whatever suits them how would 200 or 300$ a month sound? Not completely unreasonable if they were the only player in town and afterall, it's a professional product?
> ...



The question is what's to stop adobe from raising it? You the user?You have your eggs in one basket and adobe owns the basket. You'll have to pay the toll to get to said eggs but how much are you willing to pay? 

What if they decide, yeah CC is for pros only. Pros make money so we'll charge a pro price. How about 300$? Not that they have much of a say because remember those PSDS you built over the years, uh yeah now they don't work with CS6. 

The number of 300$ a month isn't unreasonable with people making thousands right? Do you see how adobe could use this in there advantage? Subscription models don't empower the user but empowers the company. 

That's how I feel about it and why I'll be using CS6 until corel or even gimp(16 bit support) matures as a replacement.


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## CTJohn (Nov 22, 2013)

After PURCHASING the Lightroom 5 update from Lightroom 4 a few months ago, I have no idea what to do now. In some way, this makes me trust Adobe even less.

I really don't feel like now renting what I've already bought, since it's 80-90% of the work I do (between Lightroom and Photoshop.) I have Photoshop CS5 on my computer. If they weren't floundering so much trying to retrofit a strategy, I'd feel more comfortable committing to this.


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## 2n10 (Nov 22, 2013)

For $10 a month I decided to give it a shot. I don't save in Adobe proprietary formats so hopefully I will be pleased.


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## Rienzphotoz (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...


*FIRST:*
The day Adobe makes such a stupid move to charge $300 per month, 99% of their software will be pirated in a matter of few hours ... even at $30 a month, it was cracked within a day. http://fstoppers.com/adobe-photoshop-cc-has-already-been-pirated-in-just-one-day.

*SECOND:*
It is in Adobe's best interest to charge less and make paying customers out of those people who are using pirated Adobe software (FYI, people who use pirated Adobe products out number those who legally purchase it).

I will bet my entire camera gear that Adobe is NOT going to charge $300 per month, for their Photoshop CC + LR 5 software.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Nov 22, 2013)

no


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## RLPhoto (Nov 22, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...



Once again the point flew past you. The amount is irrelevant, I said 300$ to make a point that Adobe could charge that or even more. Not at the moment but perhaps once everyone is dependent on there system. 

Pirates will pirate, adobe can't stop that. It's the actual purchasers that matter and adobe took a lot of the power away from the user.


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## Rienzphotoz (Nov 22, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...


The "point has not flew past" ... you are overly concerned about something that is clearly not going to happen. First you say "_Adobe could hike prices to whatever suits them how would 200 or 300$ a month sound? Not completely unreasonable if they were the only player in town_", now you say "the amount is irrelevant" ... Price is a very relevant issue, if the price is low, many who normally would use pirated software will subscribe ... but if the cost is ridiculously prohibitive many of the paying customers will end up using pirated software. FYI, majority of Adobe's paying customers are those who upgrade their software whenever a newer version is released, for them it makes absolutely perfect sense to subscribe by paying less ... but for those minority customers, who do not upgrade for several years, yes "adobe took a lot of the power away from the user".


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## eml58 (Nov 22, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to drink the Kool aid, good for you. I will be using my CS6 for along time.
> ...



At some point Canon will release the 1DxS (or what ever) which you will want to own, CS8 will receive the upgrades to allow you to handle Image files from your New Camera, CS6 at some point will not get the Upgrades, this is not new.

Save your Image Files with all your side Car Files etc in TIF, I do, I've never saved my Images in Adobes File Format.

At some point all software will be a similar Business Model to Adobes "Rental" system, I'de say within 5 years there won't be any Software Company offering Stand Alone Products versus "Rental", Adobe are a PIA, but they currently offer the best Software to handle Image files plus a load of other software, On One are about the only Company moving up with a stand alone alternative, and you can bet in 5 years they will be offering their software along similar lines to Adobe.

It's a Business Model that given some Pain at inception will offer a much better more manageable cash flow scenario, for Adobe (and that is the number one priority for any Company), and adobe have a very large Cash Surplus so they can weather initial issues and Play the Long Term Game.

It was only 6 months ago on a different thread on CR, but same Topic when I suggested that given time Adobe would offer a "special" deal on PS+LR and some chap that was an Adobe reseller shot me down harshly stating Adobe would "never" offer anything like that, well, we are 6 months down the track, Adobe have as many of the Pro Photographers and Companies onboard with the "Suite" subscription Model as they feel initially that need, now it's time to extend the Model to get the amateur photographers into the system, it works, and although i dislike admitting it where Adobe is concerned, they have actually approached this from a Business perspective quite well.

PS+LR at 120 bucks a year is a good deal, those that are concerned about a price increase, get over it, the price will go up,what doesn't, any stand alone non subscription model software will also see price increases over time.

If your concerned about file format, save your Files in something other than PSD and that allows you to use other software.

I see the way Adobe approaching this is somewhat similar to the way Apple (plus the rights holders) are approaching Music, you pay a yearly subscription, all your music is available online that you own on your computer, any "Non Original" 9read Pirated) Music is also available in the original Format as long as you Pay the Yearly Subscription, the endeavour is to win over as many of the "Pirates" as they can, it won't work 100%, I'm sure Apple and the rights holders don't expect it to, but if they win over 50% of the Target group that's an enormous amount of Cash Flow in very real terms, it's smart business.

I wasn't convinced 6 months ago re Adobes subscription Model, I've changed my mind, it happens from time to time, and I'm quite Ok with that.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 22, 2013)

Most online subscription sellers do a test of the subscribers credit card about a month before the renewal date and send a warning e-mail if the credit card bounces. They realize that cards expire or are cancelled, its a normal happening in business.

If you receive the notice, just give them the new information.

I'm wondering if I can use a prepaid card with a account that has just the exact amount that is due to Adobe for a year. Then I don't have to worry about Adobe getting hacked, and I can deposit the proper amount when a renewal is due. My card number was stolen shortly before the Adobe announcement and I had to get a new one. Its happening more and more often.


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## eml58 (Nov 22, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Most online subscription sellers do a test of the subscribers credit card about a month before the renewal date and send a warning e-mail if the credit card bounces. They realize that cards expire or are cancelled, its a normal happening in business.
> 
> If you receive the notice, just give them the new information.
> 
> I'm wondering if I can use a prepaid card with a account that has just the exact amount that is due to Adobe for a year. Then I don't have to worry about Adobe getting hacked, and I can deposit the proper amount when a renewal is due. My card number was stolen shortly before the Adobe announcement and I had to get a new one. Its happening more and more often.



Yes, my one real; outstanding concern regards the Subscription Model.

I've taken the Suite Model @SGD500/Year, locked price for 3 years, through Innercom in Singapore who are a Adobe Reseller, this way I can have my Office Pay the yearly subscription via Bank Transfer.

The new $120/year (SGD170) is clearly a better deal, but it currently requires Credit Card online payment, with Adobe I'm extremely wary, if there was a way to Pay with PayPal etc, I'm off the current Model and onto the New Model in a New York Second.


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## kphoto99 (Nov 23, 2013)

I wanted to add two points to this discussion.

If Adobe raises the price to (for example) $300/month people will pirate it. This is a false statements. Current software runs on your own computer so it can be pirated. Future versions will have key functionality performed in the cloud, so there is not going to be a way of pirating it.

Originally the price was $20/month and people were saying it was to expensive, now they cut the price to $10/month and lots of people are saying that is a good price. If they introduced it at $10/month originally then they would not have had the same response from the people who say it is a good price. This is the same tactic that stores use with price tags that have a high price that is crossed out and a lower price below. Simple psychology. 

Last point, the more people buy into the software rental business model the more companies will be using the model. Nothing is set in stone, the market will adapt.

I personally don't care what Adobe does since they don't provide PS on Linux.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 23, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...



The point is your giving power to adobe and taking it from the end user. The sliver of possible savings from CC will evaporate the moment adobe decides to hike the prices, which will happen, once they have most everyone on CC after a few years. It's a brilliant move by adobe because most no one see the back stab before it's too late. 

Go ahead but I'll continue to not buy any CC products. If LR ends up CC only, I'll be using another programs.


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## jimenezphoto (Nov 23, 2013)

For $10 a month I am willing to give it a try. I currently use CS4 on Windows Vista. Does anyone know is CC works with Vista?????


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## Flemming (Nov 23, 2013)

Would like to give it at try for $10/month as well. However, us in Europe gets the short end of the deal as Adope seems to charge 16.5 USD/month. Adjusted for VAT its still more that 25% compared to US prices and that is Denmark where we have Europes highest VAT. 

Reading a FAQ by Adobe explaining why the prices differ so much they say a market analysis shows their products is more valuable in Europe. Rewritten I think it means they say we are stupid...err willing enough to pay more so thay charge more because they can.

For a physical product I might understand because of distribution costs might be different but for a cloud based solution.... 

Think I will stick with LR4 and forget about trying PS.

/Flemming


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## jimenezphoto (Nov 23, 2013)

jimenezphoto said:


> For $10 a month I am willing to give it a try. I currently use CS4 on Windows Vista. Does anyone know is CC works with Vista?????



Got answer from Adobe. Windows 7 and newer. no Vista. I guess no CC for me. Thanks for nothing Adobe.


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## eml58 (Nov 24, 2013)

jimenezphoto said:


> jimenezphoto said:
> 
> 
> > For $10 a month I am willing to give it a try. I currently use CS4 on Windows Vista. Does anyone know is CC works with Vista?????
> ...



Works just fine on OSX Mavericks ;D


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## CTJohn (Nov 24, 2013)

Another knock on subscription models is how the seller can slow the upgrade schedule over time. How many think Sports Illustrated is a shadow of it's past? Updates to software can start coming just a little bit slower each time, enhancements just a little bit slower, and revenues don't decline. What do you think Canon's new product rollout schedule would look like if we just rented cameras from them on a perpetual basis?


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## Rienzphotoz (Nov 24, 2013)

CTJohn said:


> Another knock on subscription models is how the seller can slow the upgrade schedule over time. How many think Sports Illustrated is a shadow of it's past? Updates to software can start coming just a little bit slower each time, enhancements just a little bit slower, and revenues don't decline.


That kind of strategy will not work in this day and age ... coz people will jump ship, remember Nokia/Symbian? ... there are a lot of "small players" waiting for "bigger/popular" companies to slip up, so the "small players" can take the market share ... I would not worry about any "slow upgrade schedule over time". 


CTJohn said:


> What do you think Canon's new product rollout schedule would look like if we just rented cameras from them on a perpetual basis?


If what you are implying does take place, people will simply jump ship and get Nikon, Sony or some other brand.


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## WPJ (Nov 24, 2013)

Its funny, all of these people that think because the bought the box product that they own it. You don't adobe owns it, you only bought the right to use it, not own it read the agreement,

CC is it, no more boxed so stop complaining and ho find something else and be done with it. You each have your own decision to make so make it and move in. 

the 300/month is crap, yes it could go there but if there was a boxed,product released at the same time to would be in similar,pricing at the 300/month,or,7-8 k, there not stupid, but a lot of people have there head up there back side.

make your decision and move on.


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## jointdoc (Nov 25, 2013)

I have been waiting for this. Finally I can upgrade from my educational version of CS5. I already have Lightroom but I still think it is a good deal.


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## cayenne (Nov 25, 2013)

WPJ said:


> Its funny, all of these people that think because the bought the box product that they own it. You don't adobe owns it, you only bought the right to use it, not own it read the agreement,
> 
> CC is it, no more boxed so stop complaining and ho find something else and be done with it. You each have your own decision to make so make it and move in.
> 
> ...



Well, other companies have tried the rental software route, and so far, consumers have fought against it mostly successfully (like with MS) with their wallets.

If enough people don't join CC, at some point, perhaps Adobe will get the message and change. No reason at this point in the game to give up the fight and just accept things. 

Companies listen to one and one thing only....profits. If that gets squeezed, they will do what is needed to get that money. 

If they don't then competitors will catch up and start taking that business. 

C


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## dgatwood (Nov 25, 2013)

Jim O said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > CS6 Production Pro Suite, and LR5 stand alone still doing just fine with me.
> ...



No, it can't. Not without massive loss. You're still thinking in the mindset of everything being a photo. Many of us use Photoshop for incredibly complex graphic design works involving dozens of layers, some of which are text. You can't go back and edit text that is burned into a DNG file.




kphoto99 said:


> If Adobe raises the price to (for example) $300/month people will pirate it. This is a false statements. Current software runs on your own computer so it can be pirated. Future versions will have key functionality performed in the cloud, so there is not going to be a way of pirating it.



What you describe is never going to happen, realistically, for three reasons:

1. The average American has something like 256 kbps upload speed. That means that those 300 megabyte Photoshop files would take 17 minutes just to push it up to the cloud once.

2. Lots of Photoshop users use Photoshop when they have no Internet access. There's a reason it doesn't require you to be online more than once a month.

3. A sizable percentage of businesses cannot make their content available to third parties. Handling any of the functionality "in the cloud" would mean that any company with a DOD contract, any ad agency doing work for any major corporation, etc. would no longer be allowed (legally) to use Adobe's software.


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