# Canon EOS-1D X AF at f/8 with the Kenko 1.4TC



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 4, 2012)

```
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<strong>From Arthur Morris


</strong>Arthur has written a great article about getting f/8 autofocus with the new Canon EOS-1D X. A lot of birders used the EF 800 f/5.6L IS with the Canon 1.4x TC & EOS-1D Mark IV for example. The biggest complaint with the EOS-1D X has been the inability to get f/8 autofocus.</p>
<p>However, with the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674565-REG/Kenko_PRO3001_4XDGXC_Teleplus_PRO_300_DG.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4</a> teleconverter you can give the EOS-1D X the ability to autofocus at f/8 with the EF 800 f/5.6L IS. Another plus of using the Kenko teleconverter is you’re able to move the AF point at f/8. With the Canon teleconverter on say, the 1D Mark IV, you only had the center AF point active.</p>
<p>Arthur has posted lots of images to show the image quality that is possible with the Kenko 1.4x TC.</p>
<p><strong>From Arthur Morris</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>Once I got down in the mud I discovered that AF with the the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter was fast and sure and accurate. I have been out every morning and afternoon since then and have totally fallen in love with the 1DX. That first afternoon I managed to get a huge gob of black, sticky, gooey much all over my brand new camera. It was a proper baptism.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2012/08/30/mega-amazing-discovery-800-f5-6-1-4x-tc-canon-eos-1dx/" target="_blank">Read the entire article</a></strong></p>
<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674565-REG/Kenko_PRO3001_4XDGXC_Teleplus_PRO_300_DG.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">Kenko 1.4 TC at B&H $259</a> | <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/827036-REG/Canon_5253B002_EOS_1D_X_EOS_Digital.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">Canon EOS-1D X at B&H $6799</a></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Vinniej (Sep 4, 2012)

Wonder if it would also work for the 5DIII.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 4, 2012)

Vinniej said:


> Wonder if it would also work for the 5DIII.



If you read Art Morris' article, you'll find the answer. Hint - if you're a 5DIII owner, you won't _like_ the answer. But it's there.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 4, 2012)

My question is if the Kenko 1.4x TC allows AF with an f/5.6 supertele on a 1D X, does the equivalent Kenko 2x TC allow AF with an f/4 supertele on a 1D X?


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## cliffwang (Sep 4, 2012)

I don't get it. Does that mean AF doesn't works on Canon 1.4 TC + F/5.6? Anything special for Kenko TC?


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## zrz2005101 (Sep 4, 2012)

Gives me some confidence to challenge the price of that 1Dx


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## littlebob (Sep 4, 2012)

I guess I am the only one who decided the loss of one stop, reduced AF performance and reduced resolution is not worth 1.4x with today's high MP cameras because I can easily crop that much. I have not used my Canon 1.4x in a couple years.


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## Viggo (Sep 4, 2012)

So I guess someone read my statement, LOL

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=8705.0


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## Vinniej (Sep 4, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Vinniej said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder if it would also work for the 5DIII.
> ...



Thanks. Someone in the comments of the article says the Kenko 2x MC4 works with it.


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## Portrait_Moments_Photogra (Sep 4, 2012)

I tried it with the follow;

1DX with EF400L 5.6 plus Kenko 1.4x Pro DGX - f/8 - OK - all AF points works - AF is somewhat front focused.

1DX with EF400L 5.6 plus Kenko 2.0x Pro DGX - f/11- NO GO - Hang-Up - Had to Remove Battery.

1DX with EF400L 5.6 plus EF 1.4X II - f/8 - NO AF but Camera WORKS

1DX with EF400L 5.6 plus EF 2.0X II - f/11 - NO AF but Camera WORKS


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## Rick Massie (Sep 4, 2012)

Portrait_Moments_Photogra said:


> I tried it with the follow;
> 
> 1DX with EF400L 5.6 plus Kenko 1.4x Pro DGX - f/8 - OK - all AF points works - AF is somewhat front focused.
> 
> ...



If you have time, would you mind testing the 400 f5.6 and the Kenko 2x on the 1dMKIIN? (I'd say 1dmkIV, but looks like you don't have one handy according to your signature). I'd really appreciate it. I have a 1dMKIV and am wondering (hoping) that the 2x and 400mm will work together on the pre-1dX series. Thanks!


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## Portrait_Moments_Photogra (Sep 4, 2012)

5.6 plus 2x = f/11 - there's no camera that AF at f/11.... 

you can manual focus though on bright daylight

My 1D Mark IIN and your 1D Mark IV will work on f/8 but not f/11 - none does 

hope this helps your inquiry.


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## Rick Massie (Sep 5, 2012)

Portrait_Moments_Photogra said:


> 5.6 plus 2x = f/11 - there's no camera that AF at f/11....
> 
> you can manual focus though on bright daylight
> 
> ...



Thanks. I only ask since I saw this quote in the thread Birdsasart.com:

"I did not test the Kenko Pro since Artie had already confirmed that the Pro DGX did not work with 5DIII. The Kenko 1.4X MC4 would cause the same error as the Pro DGX with the 5DIII/800 combo. *However, the 2X would work and would even autofocus at f11 with the 5DIII.* "


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## danski0224 (Sep 5, 2012)

How long 'til a firmware update fixes this...


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## AJ (Sep 5, 2012)

I don't understand the need to dial in -1 stop compensation? Doesn't the light loss caused by the TC automatically result in a lower metered exposure? I'm confused


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## TexPhoto (Sep 5, 2012)

OK, to understand why this works, you need to understand the camera refuses to AF with the Canon extender because it's being told there is an f8 (or f11 for the 2X) lens on the front. The software of the camera then declares "hell no".

The Kenko converter is passing the f stop of the lens without the change in aperture. So the camera thinks there is an f5.6 lens on it. Now you still need decent light and a contrasty subject, more than without the telecenter, but it still works. 

Why the -1? Because he camera is metering at f8 while being told it has f5.6. So before the photo is taken, it is metering wrong.


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## Portrait_Moments_Photogra (Sep 5, 2012)

Rick Massie said:


> Portrait_Moments_Photogra said:
> 
> 
> > 5.6 plus 2x = f/11 - there's no camera that AF at f/11....
> ...



Hhhmmmmm, HOLY COW Rick!!!!! my 1D Mark IIN with 400L 5.6 plus 2x Kenko f/11 - DOES AF and LOCKS!!!!
and I'm inside the house - night time - on daytime - bright sunlight - THIS WILL ROCK!!!

What a shame for Canon....


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## Portrait_Moments_Photogra (Sep 5, 2012)

now with my 1DX, im starting to feel really cheated by Canon - i really do.

my 7 year old 1D Mark IIN and 8 yr old 1D Mark II paired with a third party TC works at f/11 just fine
~ while my 1DX wont.

also - tested it on the Canon T3 - it worked - a bit slower than the 1D Mark II's but very acceptable.

- tested on the 5D Mark II - it will AF and Lock only if you pre-focus it manually.
- 5D Mark II without pre-focus will AF and Lock 1 out of 10 or even more - so not acceptable in any standard.

but they will work - while the 1DX wont - WTH Canon!!!!


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## stochasticmotions (Sep 5, 2012)

I have been using the kenko 1.4 DGX for quite some time with my 5d Mark II and the 100-400. At 400 it focuses quite quickly except in the lowest of light (using the centre focus point mostly). It also metres correctly and shows f8 both on the camera and in the exif. With the Canon 1.4 I had to tape up some of the connectors and then although it would focus it was very slow and would not correctly show the aperture.

As a side note the kenko is much sharper that the canon (I have the version 2 of the 1.4 canon teleconverter) at least at f8-f11. I have tried it on an old 500 f4.5 and it also worked like a charm. These teleconverters do not focus quickly with my 7D (or at all but in the brightest light)


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## Rick Massie (Sep 5, 2012)

Portrait_Moments_Photogra said:


> now with my 1DX, im starting to feel really cheated by Canon - i really do.
> 
> my 7 year old 1D Mark IIN and 8 yr old 1D Mark II paired with a third party TC works at f/11 just fine
> ~ while my 1DX wont.
> ...



Awesome! Glad you checked it out. Even though it doesn't fully confirm it will work with an MKIV, I may have to pick up a kenko on the chance that it might work!


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 5, 2012)

Portrait_Moments_Photogra said:


> my 7 year old 1D Mark IIN and 8 yr old 1D Mark II paired with a third party TC works at f/11 just fine
> ~ while my 1DX wont.



I don't suppose you have a constant f/4 lens you can try with the Kenko 2x on the 1D X, to see if it works at f/8?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 5, 2012)

Portrait_Moments_Photogra said:


> 5.6 plus 2x = f/11 - there's no camera that AF at f/11....
> 
> 
> My 1D Mark IIN and your 1D Mark IV will work on f/8 but not f/11 - none does
> ...


My 1D MK III would AF at F11 with my 70-200mm f/4L and 2X TC. My 40D also worked at F/11 with some lenses. Obviously, you needed a non reporting TC, but it did Autofocus.


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## AJ (Sep 5, 2012)

TexPhoto said:


> OK, to understand why this works, you need to understand the camera refuses to AF with the Canon extender because it's being told there is an f8 (or f11 for the 2X) lens on the front. The software of the camera then declares "hell no".
> 
> The Kenko converter is passing the f stop of the lens without the change in aperture. So the camera thinks there is an f5.6 lens on it. Now you still need decent light and a contrasty subject, more than without the telecenter, but it still works.
> 
> Why the -1? Because he camera is metering at f8 while being told it has f5.6. So before the photo is taken, it is metering wrong.


Yes, but:

The camera thinks it's metering at f/5.6 and shooting at f/5.6, while the actual metering is at f/8 and the exposure is a f/8. So - it doesn't try to control light by manipulating aperture. So why the need to dial in compensation?


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## heheapa (Sep 5, 2012)

This sounds the f/8 AF can be enabled by a firmware release.
Just curious what's the reason that Canon not to enable that originally?
To clear the stock for 1D Mark IV before 1DX in stock? 
If the AF works well on 3rd party teleconverter, there should be an easy workaround code for a firmware fix.
If canon can send me the firmware code then I can advise the changes for them


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## TexPhoto (Sep 5, 2012)

Why? To sell more big aperture lenses? To cut down on complaints and returns of lenses not focusing perfectly at f8 in questionable light? Just to tick off people used to the f8 shooting? Who knows?

My guess is some very smart engineer said: listen we can focus really really good at f5.6, or just good at f8... Which do I want to be known for?


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## spinworkxroy (Sep 5, 2012)

Does putting a 1.4x converter on a 400 f5.6 lens mean exactly the same thing as putting a 1.4x on a 70-300 f3.5-5.6 at 300mm?

Both will be at f8 right? Unless it's not the same thing with a variable aperture zoom lens. Or maybe it's just lens specific.
Reading the article, many people have errors connectiong the Kenko 1.4 to a 5D3 with a f5.6 lens

However, my 5D3 works fine with the Kenko with a 70-300 zoom lens at 300mm f5.6 (which is f8 with the TC)….
So maybe it doesn't affect everyone and every f5.6 lens..so it depends on your luck maybe?


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## xps (Sep 5, 2012)

Does this teleconverter work with other bodies too? 60D with 100-400mm?

My personal opinion is, that the camera producers calculate what is profitable for them. So, some features will be restricted. Many of the electronic products we use each day are capable to be more powerful than we are allowed to use by the producers.


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## MartinM (Sep 5, 2012)

Vinniej said:


> Wonder if it would also work for the 5DIII.



I have used the folowing combo

5D Mark III + TC1.4x III + TC2x II + 70-200 L IS II USM and AF works -> 560mm 

But, I tried it at an airshow and AF was not fast enough to capture the fast passing aircrafts. For static birds or so, it worked fine.

Cheers
Martin


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## spinworkxroy (Sep 5, 2012)

MartinM said:


> Vinniej said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder if it would also work for the 5DIII.
> ...



That's because your 70-200 is f2.8..even with 2x TC it's only F5.6 which is supposed to work.
The question people are asking is does the tC1.4 work when the aperture becomes f8.

For me, i don't own any prime f5.6 lens so i don't know but i've only ever tried it on a 70-300 f5.6 variable aperture zoom lens and at 300mm with the TC it works fine at f8…maybe it's because it's not a Canon lens?


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## SambalOelek (Sep 5, 2012)

I've used Kenko 2x with the lovely Sigma 100-300 f/4 on 5D III, and it worked like a charm. Very sharp and snappy AI Servo AF with both manual and automatic. 

Sigma 100-300 f/4 + Kenko 2x (effectively @ f/8) = Works 100%
Sigma 100-300 f/4 + Kenko 2x + Canon 1.4x (effectively @ f/11) = Only automatic AF point selection, fast lock
Canon EF 70-300 f/4-5.6 L + Kenko 2x (effectively @ f/8-11) = Slow/difficult to lock focus


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## Marsu42 (Sep 5, 2012)

SambalOelek said:


> Canon EF 70-300 f/4-5.6 L + Kenko 2x (effectively @ f/8-11) = Slow/difficult to lock focus



... a 1.4x tc is the absolute max for the 70-300L unless you mf, but imho the iq with the 1.4x Kenko is "just" ok so I wouldn't want to try a 2x.


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## Childeric (Sep 5, 2012)

What a surprise !

I mentioned exactly that almost two months ago ;-)

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7980.msg145491#msg145491

By the way, it seems to me that overexposure is more than one IL, and the correct aperture is reported by the 1dX, strangely.


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## Peerke (Sep 5, 2012)

Maybe known, but anyway.

A Kenko 1.4 PRO 300 DG won't do the trick on my 7D with 400 5.6. I guess you need a DG*X* :'(.

Just had a look on the Kenko site. It should not be possible according to them. They state that:

"Most Canon EOS camera bodies are programmed to shut down auto focus if the calculated effective aperture for the lens and teleconverter is smaller than f/5.6, the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 converters work the same way"


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## SambalOelek (Sep 6, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> SambalOelek said:
> 
> 
> > Canon EF 70-300 f/4-5.6 L + Kenko 2x (effectively @ f/8-11) = Slow/difficult to lock focus
> ...



In fact, I found that the bare lens performance at 300mm is only okayish, which is somewhat disappointing considering the max aperture. I have two of these so I may run a quick check to see if there's any discernable difference.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 6, 2012)

SambalOelek said:


> In fact, I found that the bare lens performance at 300mm is only okayish, which is somewhat disappointing considering the max aperture. I have two of these so I may run a quick check to see if there's any discernable difference.



The 70-300L is not the sharpest lens on the block, but it is a is good tradeoff between short length, reasonable weight (!), L build quality, nice bokeh, very good af performance and moderate price - don't forget the price difference to the 70-200/2.8 and tele primes. But you are correct, the 1.4tc solution definitely doesn't produce professional grade shots @100% crop, it's just "nice to have" for the low cost of the Kenko.

But since you mention it: there are qc issues, for the iso crops they had to get another sample (see link below). But at least my sample is very sharp @300mm on crop, i.e. using the lens' center. If it isn't it's simply a shutter speed issue because with low shutter speed + IS I can get good pictures, but for max. sharpness it's still 1/500 or faster.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=738&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=738&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=1&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

It seems that firmwares later than 1.02 disable to ability of the 1DX to AF at f/8 with the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter with all the accompanying benefits.... 

Does anyone know if it possible to save the firmware that is on the camera? 

Arthur Morris www.BIRDSASART-Blog.com


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

AJ said:


> I don't understand the need to dial in -1 stop compensation? Doesn't the light loss caused by the TC automatically result in a lower metered exposure? I'm confused



It looks as if you nailed this one....


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

Peerke said:


> Maybe known, but anyway.
> 
> A Kenko 1.4 PRO 300 DG won't do the trick on my 7D with 400 5.6. I guess you need a DG*X* :'(.
> 
> ...



Childeric,  Not to be a pain but that is not exactly what you wrote. In fact, what you wrote is not at all what I wrote .


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## Marsu42 (Sep 9, 2012)

Arthur Morris said:


> It seems that firmwares later than 1.02 disable to ability of the 1DX to AF at f/8 with the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter with all the accompanying benefits....



Holy crap, so it's like "We own you and all your camera bodies" because if af @f8 doesn't work w/ the Canon tc, it shouldn't work at all? Argh - I read this is the same with the latest 5d3 firmware, can anyone confirm this?


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

Agree. Not very nice at all. I have written some folks at Canon for confirmation.... Will advise. 

Arthur Morris/www.BIRDSASART-Blog.com


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## danski0224 (Sep 9, 2012)

Might be time to scratch off the 1DX from my wishlist too... cheaper that way anyways.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 9, 2012)

Arthur Morris said:


> It seems that firmwares later than 1.02 disable to ability of the 1DX to AF at f/8 with the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter with all the accompanying benefits....
> 
> Does anyone know if it possible to save the firmware that is on the camera?



AFAIK, it is not possie to save the currently-installed firmware. It is possible to downgrade/roll back to an earlier firmware, but doing so requires the updater for that version, and the first downloadable 1D X firmware is 1.0.6. 

I expect that Canon Service _could_ roll a 1.0.6-updated 1D X back to 1.0.2, whether they _would_ is another question...

Artie, I read the comment about 1.0.6 apparently breaking the f/8 AF with the Kenko 1.4x TC - has that been confirmed by others? If so, that's very unfortunate...


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

What I know is based on the comments of several others both on my blog and on the BPN post here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/102647-1DX-Canon-800mm-f-5-6L-IS-Kenko-Teleplus-PRO-300-DGX-1-4x-AF-Teleconverter (I believe...)


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 9, 2012)

Arthur Morris said:


> What I know is based on the comments of several others both on my blog and on the BPN post here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/102647-1DX-Canon-800mm-f-5-6L-IS-Kenko-Teleplus-PRO-300-DGX-1-4x-AF-Teleconverter (I believe...)



Should point out that Phil on BPN stated, "_I have a Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 sitting in my dry box for years._" It's been mentioned in a couple of places that the f/8 AF on the 1D X seems to work only with the newest DGX version of the Kenko 1.4x, not with the older DG version (therefore possibly not with the even older vanilla Pro 300 version). 

So, perhaps there's some hope...


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## Childeric (Sep 9, 2012)

Arthur Morris said:


> Peerke said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe known, but anyway.
> ...



Well i didn't say what you quote, Peerke did.

What I wrote here back in July was that my 1dX did AF at f/8 with this kenko pro300 adapter, that's all.


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## Childeric (Sep 9, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Arthur Morris said:
> 
> 
> > What I know is based on the comments of several others both on my blog and on the BPN post here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/102647-1DX-Canon-800mm-f-5-6L-IS-Kenko-Teleplus-PRO-300-DGX-1-4x-AF-Teleconverter (I believe...)
> ...



I have just tried again with the Kenko and 70-300 DO on my 1dX, and it still works, with firmware 1.06.


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

Well, I am confused about who said what .

But when I went to the link it talked about the TC focusing with a Canon 2X or something like that.


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## Childeric (Sep 9, 2012)

Yes. In order to get f/8, I tried two options.
a) 70-200 2,8 + Canon x2 + Kenko 1,4 pro 300
b) 70-300 DO 5,6 + Kenko 1,4 pro 300

Both did AF well, and not only whith the center point.

And the good news is that it still works with firmware 1.06

Unfortunately, I don't have an adequate lens to check whether it would also work at f/11


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

Should point out that Phil on BPN stated, "_I have a Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 sitting in my dry box for years._" It's been mentioned in a couple of places that the f/8 AF on the 1D X seems to work only with the newest DGX version of the Kenko 1.4x, not with the older DG version (therefore possibly not with the even older vanilla Pro 300 version). 

So, perhaps there's some hope...
[/quote]

Not really. Folks with a 1DX with 1.06 who have just purchased the Kenko 1.4 are reporting a no-go--at least that is my best current understanding. Also, on BPN, Martin Lord tested the Kenko 2X Teleplus Pro 300 with the 600 II; the results were dire--nowhere near sharp....


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## Marsu42 (Sep 9, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Arthur Morris said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know if it possible to save the firmware that is on the camera?
> ...



Indeed - that's why the Magic Lantern devs always have to wait for the first firmware upgrade to get access to the code, they found no way to dump the current firmware out of the camera.


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## Arthur Morris (Sep 9, 2012)

Indeed - that's why the Magic Lantern devs always have to wait for the first firmware upgrade to get access to the code, they found no way to dump the current firmware out of the camera.


Guess that I will not be sending my 1DX to Canon for repair....


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## sparda79 (Sep 14, 2012)

Result of test done by The Digital Picture.com
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3022



> Autofocus Performance
> Canon EOS 1D X: AF worked and was fast with almost no hunting. However, metering was consistently off by +1 stop.
> *Canon EOS 5D Mark III: AF worked and was fast with almost no hunting. Metering worked as expected.*
> Canon EOS 5D Mark II: AF worked and was reasonably fast with a little hunting. Metering worked as expected.
> ...



So it does work with 5D3?
I'm a bit confused...


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2012)

sparda79 said:


> Result of test done by The Digital Picture.com
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3022
> 
> 
> ...



His tests were with a 400/5.6L and the camera firmware versions weren't stated - both lens and firmware could affect results.


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