# The Canon EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM confirmed again



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 28, 2018)

> We have been talking about the EF-M 32mm f/1.4 STM coming to the EOS M lineup for most of 2018, and it looks like the announcement is right around the corner. We expect to see it announced on September 5, 2018 alongside a slew of other new Canon products
> Nokishita has further confirmed the lens via Twitter.



Continue reading...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 28, 2018)

I’ll be preordering this lens, likely writing a review as well.


----------



## vangelismm (Aug 28, 2018)

Price is expected to be lower than the EF 1.4?


----------



## jolyonralph (Aug 28, 2018)

vangelismm said:


> Price is expected to be lower than the EF 1.4?



Seeing as this is a consumer-grade APS-C lens I think we'd all be astonished if it's more than $500. I'm thinking $350-$400 range max.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 28, 2018)

Hopefully a bit better built and not like the latest plastic mount M lenses.


----------



## Woody (Aug 28, 2018)

Yippie ya yeah


----------



## brad-man (Aug 28, 2018)

I'm hoping its a "Made In Japan" lens, though I'm not holding my breath...


----------



## fullstop (Aug 28, 2018)

so, no IS ? looking at rumored product name

ah yes ... and why should a f/1.4 APS-C crop "normal FOV" lens cost more than 199 bucks?


----------



## andrei1989 (Aug 28, 2018)

fullstop said:


> so, no IS ? looking at rumored product name
> 
> ah yes ... and why should a f/1.4 APS-C crop "normal FOV" lens cost more than 199 bucks?



because there's no competition


----------



## Maximilian (Aug 28, 2018)

andrei1989 said:


> fullstop said:
> 
> 
> > so, no IS ? looking at rumored product name
> ...


And because Canon can estimate the "market price" better than you, meaning the average price consumers are willing to pay for such a lens.


----------



## Josh Leavitt (Aug 29, 2018)

Anyone here think we'll get a Canon EF-M 50mm F/1.4 IS STM sometime soon? Personally I think that would be a killer portrait lens.


----------



## Woody (Aug 29, 2018)

Josh Leavitt said:


> Anyone here think we'll get a Canon EF-M 50mm F/1.4 IS STM sometime soon? Personally I think that would be a killer portrait lens.



One can easily adapt the classic EF 50 f/1.4 USM lens onto a Canon MILC.


----------



## slclick (Aug 29, 2018)

It'll be Malaysia but if it's as optically good or better than the 22 then it will be a winner.


----------



## slclick (Aug 29, 2018)

Woody said:


> One can easily adapt the classic EF 50 f/1.4 USM lens onto a Canon MILC.


And then have an equivalent focal length of 80mm. Not apples to apples.


----------



## HaroldC3 (Aug 29, 2018)

They should be announcing a trio of m primes not just one.


----------



## brianboru (Aug 29, 2018)

I updated my original M to an M50 a month and a half ago to get ready for my first trip to Europe (London, then Catelonia, Aragon, Euskal Harria, Cantebaria and Galicia Spain!) I now have 5 EF-M lenses and will likely bring therm all as they are the best thing I can find for a relatively compact kit. I've been contemplating using the EF/EF-M adapter to bring something else from my EF lenses but; every time I think about that, I've ended up buying a new EF-M lens. 

Too bad this lens will miss the trip. 

(I'm not going to whine about missing lenses but wish there was a 1.4x extender for EF-M to give a few more permutations to the existing ones.)


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 29, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Seeing as this is a consumer-grade APS-C lens I think we'd all be astonished if it's more than $500. I'm thinking $350-$400 range max.




Good guess. It could climb in value depending on build, if it has the fancy multi-purpose distance scale, possibly weather sealing for a fancier M5 II (or new 7D-level class of mirrorless) yet to come.

For sanity on the high end: priciest thing currently offered with STM = $599, and that's a FF 24-105. 

For sanity on the low end: the cheapest f/1.4 Canon made lens is of course the EF 50mm f/1.4 USM at $329. It's of course the only f/1.4 lens Canon sells that isn't an L and doesn't cost more than $1500. (However an EF-M could conceivably come in under that $329 figure as it doesn't need to cover an FF image circle.)

So if it's [STM] + [no IS], $300-500 seems about right.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 29, 2018)

fullstop said:


> so, no IS ? looking at rumored product name
> 
> ah yes ... and why should a f/1.4 APS-C crop "normal FOV" lens cost more than 199 bucks?



Maybe it's not a simple double gauss, which should get some folks very excited. I'm not saying it'll be some crop Art pickle jar, but perhaps Canon gets brave here. 

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 29, 2018)

Josh Leavitt said:


> Anyone here think we'll get a Canon EF-M 50mm F/1.4 IS STM sometime soon? Personally I think that would be a killer portrait lens.




(Someone will correct me on the statements below, but I blame Keith's wife's great chart as a reference)

In 14 years of EF-S lenses, there have been precisely zero EF-S primes that were not either macro or pancake lenses (which take lovely shots but sometimes aren't the quickest focusing or largest aperture).

EF-S has had zero lenses faster than f/2.8 in it's entire history I believe, and EF-M only has the f/2 pancake on that front.

So this lens is a massive first for Canon, and I'd peg it as a careful experiment. If it takes off (and I think it might), we could see a _small_ Fujification of the brand -- perhaps a 53mm f/1.8 STM for an 85mm FF equivalent might follow.  Maybe a 15 f/2 STM for the astro crowd. Who knows?

So what does that mean for your question? This lens will not get updated or one-upped by an IS version for very very very long time, IMHO. Think a decade -- if at all. If you need a first party 50 prime equivalent for EF-M, surely this is your bus and you need to get on it.

Wait for Neuro's review, if there's any doubt. Or consider popping into a store to try it out on your EOS M body. But were I shooting an EF-M body, I'd be button mashing to pre-order this on day one.

- A


----------



## brianboru (Aug 29, 2018)

brianboru said:


> I now have 5 EF-M lenses and will likely bring therm all...


Make that 6 EF-M lenses. I just saw TDP's post about the 15% off on eBay (*PREGAME15)* and ordered the 28mm Macro from Adora**. I'm "only" missing the 18-150mm now. 

The total setup is just under $2k, given well timed purchases, which I think that is a steal for so much capability.


----------



## ahsanford (Aug 29, 2018)

Woody said:


> One can easily adapt the classic EF 50 f/1.4 USM lens onto a Canon MILC.





Josh Leavitt said:


> Anyone here think we'll get a Canon EF-M 50mm F/1.4 IS STM sometime soon? Personally I think that would be a killer portrait lens.




Annnnd I misread your post, Josh, apologies. You actually want an EF-M 50 prime to make an 80mm FF equivalent. My fault. (With IS.)

Yeah, they might do something like it someday (see my prior post), but:

f/1.4 is a different kettle of fish for an 80-85ish FF equivalent lens. The physics gods seem to have dictated that you can make tiny (FF) 50mm f/1.4 prime but not the same is true for 35 1.4 or 85 1.4 on either side of it:
​​(35L II - 50 1.4 USM - 85L IS)​
Part of this below is of course much more complicated L lens optical designs, but in general it's a really uncanny thing: 50s can be uniquely small and fast. So if Canon were to do this for EOS-M, I'd bet it would be a 53 f/1.8 STM or something like that.​
It may not be soon. As I mentioned in the post above, this is new territory for Canon, and they very well may play wait and see. As some EF folks can attest, sometimes Canon starts an experiment that looks like a sexy new line of glass and then they just stop making more. 
- A


----------



## fullstop (Aug 29, 2018)

possible minimum size for lenses is at focal length equal or close to flange focal distance. 

EF-M has 18mm FFD. EF-M 22 can be tiny. 

EF has 44mm FFD, so EF 40/2.8 can be tiny and EF 50/1.8 as well.

size of longer focal length lenses is dependent on size of entry pupil needed for desired max. aperture, which determines minimum diameter of front element. 

so all other things equal a 85/1.4 will be a lot bigger than a f/1.8 and even more so than a 85/2 or f/2.8. 

that's why i would like to see an EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM, because it "should be possible" in a compact lens body, sized similar to EF-M 18-55 kit lens. especially since there is no other way to get that FOV and aperture (with AF) on EOS M system. EF 85/1.8 plus adapter is a lot bulkier (and without STM and IS).


----------



## jolyonralph (Aug 29, 2018)

I think we won't see a new low-cost 50mm f/1.4 lens in a while for either EF-M or EF mount for the simple reason that the 50mm f/1.8 STM is too good!


----------



## Josh Leavitt (Aug 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Annnnd I misread your post, Josh, apologies. You actually want an EF-M 50 prime to make an 80mm FF equivalent. My fault. (With IS.)
> 
> 
> It may not be soon. As I mentioned in the post above, this is new territory for Canon, and they very well may play wait and see. As some EF folks can attest, sometimes Canon starts an experiment that looks like a sexy new line of glass and then they just stop making more.
> - A



I'm hopeful Canon will recognize the potential of fast EF-M glass. Of course, much of Canon's design philosophy will be greatly influenced by the decision of the mount for their new mirrorless full-frame systems. If they keep the EF mount for FF mirrorless, I'd be inclined to think that Canon may become more daring with EF-M lenses and really push for delivering Fuji competitors in the world of fast primes. The EOS M cameras would be the only compact mirrorless system from Canon in that case, so they would have a huge opportunity to appeal to the enthusiast and pro market segments interested in compact systems. But... If Canon goes the way of Nikon and creates a whole new mount for FF mirrorless, I see my dreams of fast EF-M glass going up in smoke. I can't imagine Canon would run the risk of cannibalizing a compact FF mirrorless lens sales by creating a Fuji rival lens system in APS-C.

I guess we'll know more when Canon announces their plans next month (if the September 5th announcement is the real deal).


----------



## amorse (Aug 29, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> I think we won't see a new low-cost 50mm f/1.4 lens in a while for either EF-M or EF mount for the simple reason that the 50mm f/1.8 STM is too good!


Wasn't there a rumour just the other day that two new 50mm lenses are coming? I think those were for full frame mirrorless, so maybe not EF and maybe not low-cost I guess?


----------



## Etienne (Aug 29, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> I think we won't see a new low-cost 50mm f/1.4 lens in a while for either EF-M or EF mount for the simple reason that the 50mm f/1.8 STM is too good!



The 50mm f/1.8 STM is ok, definitely not "too good." 
There's plenty of room for a new FF 50 f/1.4


----------



## Stuart (Aug 29, 2018)

Would this look good and work on a FF mirrorless new model camera?


----------



## brad-man (Aug 29, 2018)

Stuart said:


> Would this look good and work on a FF mirrorless new model camera?


This lens is an EF-M mount for M cameras. While it is "possible" that the new FF mirrorless camera will have the same mount, I think it is highly unlikely.


----------



## herion (Aug 30, 2018)

Stuart said:


> Would this look good and work on a FF mirrorless new model camera?



"Does this lens make my camera look fat?"


----------



## mb66energy (Aug 30, 2018)

fullstop said:


> so, no IS ? looking at rumored product name
> 
> ah yes ... and why should a f/1.4 APS-C crop "normal FOV" lens cost more than 199 bucks?



*EDIT: all scaling data is meant for the glass elements, not the lens system! Lens mount size obviously must not be scaled!*

If you scale the EF-M 22 linearily by a factor of 1.4 you will see

an increase in diameter by a factor of 1.4,
the lens surfaces to polish and coat grows by a factor of 2 and
the volume increases by a factor of 1.4**3 = 2.8
If you scale the focal length by a factor of 1.4 (from 22 to 32), the total increase of the data between 22 2.0 and 32 1.4 is ...

diameter by a factor of 2
lens surfaces by factor of 4 and
volume by a factor of 8
The rest of the lens (mount, diaphragm, electronics, housing) will scale by a factor of 2 or so. Handling of lenses and parts will be the same if the number of elements stays the same.

While the f/2.0 22mm costs roughly 200 EUR/$ I think 350 EUR/$ is a very reasonable pricing if the lens has very good IQ @f/1.4 and exceptional IQ beyond!

The only sad thing for me is: I like 40mm or 50mm much much more on APS-C ... so still waiting.


----------



## fullstop (Aug 30, 2018)

hehe, i do not pay for "volume of lens tube".  
While your considerations look mathematically fine, I still don't believe the sum of it justifies 3x price for a crop 32/1.4 vs. a crop 22/2. ;-)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2018)

herion said:


> "Does this lens make my camera look fat?"


The 85/1.2L II made my 1D X look fat. I put the lens on a diet and it slimmed down by half a stop.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2018)

mb66energy said:


> If you scale the focal length by a factor of 1.4 (from 22 to 32), the total increase of the data between 22 2.0 and 32 1.4 is ...
> 
> diameter by a factor of 2


All EF-M lenses to date, from 11mm to 200mm, have had the exact same diameter.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 30, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> All EF-M lenses to date, from 11mm to 200mm, have had the exact same diameter.


yeah, that really looks like a canon design decision with the EF-M mount, which probably limits what lenses they can develop for it.

my wish of a F/4 holy trinity is probably not going to happen with a 60.9 / 61mm lens diameter and a max of a 55mm filter thread


----------



## mb66energy (Aug 31, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> All EF-M lenses to date, from 11mm to 200mm, have had the exact same diameter.


That's problem with non-unique names for things:
I meant lens element diameter (German: Lens) and not lens with enclosure diameter (German: Objektiv including lens elements) - thought, it was obvious from my writing in terms of scalings for the lens elements alone - but it was not, thanks for the hint!


----------

