# Mobile flash system



## daniela (Oct 17, 2016)

Hi Guys!

I visited an portrait shooting course an I would like to do more of this. 
The trainer showed us some lightning systems, which were all outstanding. 
But in my house, I do not have an separate big room to built up such a system.

Now I am looking to buy an mobile one, as for beginning, it will be enough for me.
What I own: Eos 6D for better image quality as my 7D Mark II and some flashes: EX 550 and Nissin D688 II. And an ring flash from canon.

So I was adviced to get an three head system. Two with soft boxes and one for spot or background lighting.

My questions to you experienced users:
Should I buy an third flash? Which one to get? An cheaper one?
And how to control them? My old Yongnuo RF-602/C set (transmitter/receiver that is mounted under the flash) or an new Cactus set? Or another set from Yongnuo?

And which softboxes to buy? One, where an tripod holds the flash and the softbox, or one where the softbox is mounted on the flash itself?

Maybe someone finds time to answer my rookie questions.
Thank you a lot
Daniela


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## Viggo (Oct 17, 2016)

A three light system for beginners? No way... perhaps in studio you can use two to get white or colored background, but three heads are way too much unless you know quite a few things.

I use one light and have for years. I shoot almost only outside with the occasional indoors snap. I utilize the sun as edge light and control only my one light.

Learn how to use one and all of the technique and theory behind what type of light does what and distance to subject, relative size and all this before anything.

Also when shooting locations outdoors; Set your camera and get ALL the settings sorted before turning on the lamp. That makes controlling the ambient and flash and balancing MUCH easier.

One or two speedlites in one 60 cm x 60 cm soft box and a trigger is all you need to create stunning results.


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## Random Orbits (Oct 17, 2016)

I started down that path about three years ago and went with the Canon RT system the whole way with Lastolite soft boxes. There are less expensive alternatives, but I don't have any experience with them. The Lastolites I have mount to light stands, which can take up a lot less space than tripods. The flash and the softbox are mounted to different points on the bracket, which is then mounted to the stand. With the softboxes being about 24 in x 24 in, it's much better mounting it to the bracket than putting all that weight on the flash head. Smaller ones can go on the flash head, but they don't produce as nice light. Neuro's gear list (light stands/backdrops) is actually a good start for looking into what types of stands, clamps, etc. would be useful.

Viggo gives good advice in adding light as you need it. It makes setting up a shot more logical and troubleshooting a lot easier.

If you're doing traditional portraits with a backdrop, then you'll end up with a minimum of 3 flashes: one for the left, one for the right and one for the background.

Syl Arena's Speedliter's Handbook is a good place to start. Take a look through it and see what you're trying to accomplish. That will determine how much gear you need.


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## Halfrack (Oct 17, 2016)

There's all types of learning available - +1 to Sly and his books

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5byuHJ9uBns
http://pixsylated.com/blog/

Also check out Strobist (David Hobby)
http://strobist.blogspot.com/

First thing you need to decide is if you want TTL/HSS or not. If you do, you need more intelligent (expensive) triggers.

With your two existing lights, you can do TTL & HSS remotely using a ST-E2 IR trigger on your camera.

Make sure you get good rechargeable batteries - Eneloop will save you lots of money.

There's a lot of things that could be added, but really, the first step is getting the flash off your camera, and practice practice practice.


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## rfdesigner (Oct 17, 2016)

I've recently gone down the off camera flash route.

I'm doing it slowly so I have two yongnuo 600 flashes (one on camera as a radio master & one off camera), a stand and a softbox.

Once I've got out as much as I can from what I have I'll add another piece, I was thinking that would probably just be a trigger, so then I'd have one soft and one hard light, both off camera. However I am now thinking I may end up spending at the local fabric shop instead, for backdrops, and I'm thinking I want gels and so on.

So, find out what you need by making images, and finding your kits limits.

Oh yes, I got Eneloops to power it all and a Technoline BL-700 charger (LeCross in the US) .


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## daniela (Oct 18, 2016)

Hi!


I will stay first with my two flashes 
I have bought four sets of recharable batteries (Sanyo eneloop).
I will order one softbox about 60x60cm, an white/reflective umbrella and one more expensive firefly softbox. So, the amount of money will be not so high and I can switch to better products, if I see which kind of box works best for me. My children will be "abused" for portrait shootings ;D 

_I see, that I should switch my trigger system. I would like to use the TTL-system and HSS. Is there another trigger than the Canon IR trigger? Which one would you buy, if you want to get the best out of my flashes?_

Thank you, for your posts and for your Emails. 
Daniela

p.s. One question just for understanding: Why do I have to use an flashlight or an on the flash-shoe mounted trigger to control the flashes? What is the biult in wireless funtion in my 6D for?


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## Alex_M (Oct 18, 2016)

Daniela,

seeing that you are still confused about your options and the subject I __highly__ recommend reading this book first:

*Speedliter's Handbook: Learning to Craft Light with Canon Speedlites, 2nd Edition*

https://www.amazon.com/Speedliters-Handbook-Learning-Craft-Speedlites/dp/0134007913

this book is right what you need at the moment. you are after second edition of the book that talks about Canon RT system as well.


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## Besisika (Oct 18, 2016)

Viggo said:


> A three light system for beginners? No way... perhaps in studio you can use two to get white or colored background, but three heads are way too much unless you know quite a few things.


I am with Viggo on this one.
Please (please) don't take it the wrong way but you are toooo new to go with 3 lighting system (no offense intended at all). The only time I use 3 lights is at night and that is very, very rarely. 
My suggestion; indeed read a book, however read just few pages then begin shooting. Don't waste time to understand all the tralala. Start practicing right away as soon as you understand a bit.
Start with one light, even in your tight room with your kids. Just turn off the lights, use window light first and once you see what it is doing then add your existing flash on camera bouncing to the ceiling or wall (which is now a two lighting system). Once you see the result then grab a cheap transmitter (you can start with a manual but if you are sure that you are going the TTL way - grab two Yongnuo 622C transceivers and put your flash on a light stand and practice that again. By this time, you should be in the middle of your books in order to understand that lighting a background is a quite advanced technique and many don't go that route unless you specialize in in-studio portraiture, but for many (as Viggo stated) one portable light + sun is the way to go (indoor and out). I, from time to time, add a fill light but rarely, unless I shoot indoor without window light.
Three lighting system is mainly for in-studio portraiture. That is because you don't want to drag along too much stuff (strength and time to set up) unless you are with a whole team behind your project.
Softbox; if you shoot indoor: definitely yes unless your wall/ceiling is white then bounce (a very good option - no setup needed and a very big light reflector). Outdoor: your portable flash is not powerful enough; you would want something stronger for that.


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## rfdesigner (Oct 18, 2016)

daniela said:


> p.s. One question just for understanding: Why do I have to use an flashlight or an on the flash-shoe mounted trigger to control the flashes? What is the biult in wireless funtion in my 6D for?



The 6D WiFi is for transferring images and remote control, it doesn't do RF-flash control... I had this exact question when I was looking. It's why I ended with the YN600EX-RT guns (they do master RF trigger amongst many other things)

PS, this is about as far as I've got so far.


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## SteveM (Oct 18, 2016)

The world's great portrait artists started with one light. Master window light first. With flash, the 430's are inexpensive and only half a stop or so less power than the big 600's. Get a couple of different sized softboxes (lastolite) and try to recreate the window light shots. Experiment with snoots and grids. Buy a 5 in 1 reflector - fill light, a very inexpensive second flash. I find pocket wizard's reliable as triggers, there are others.
Read, watch videos....Damian Lovegrove; Joe McNally; Strobist.com is very good. All offer instructional videos as well.
Watch how the light falls on faces lit by window light, watch what a small movement to the face does to the light and shade. 
Spend a lot of time with one light source before complicating issues.


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## Viggo (Oct 18, 2016)

This is were I learned everything , from where the light comes out of the flash to very advanced stuff:

http://strobist.blogspot.no/2006/03/lighting-101.html?m=1

I also read through the book recommended there; "Light; Science and magic"

Wonderful stuff and SO worth it! It has transformed my shots from hundreds of snapshots from an outing with the kids to one or four-five really nice keepers. Shoot less, shoot better.

My daughter on the couch watching tv. She had finally convinced mom to paint her nails and me to give her a lollipop on a Tuesday, and her new loomband made by her big brother. Just a simple snap, but with a beauty dish turned into a very nice memory for me.


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## lion rock (Oct 18, 2016)

Great photos, RFdesigner and Viggo.
-r


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## Bernd FMC (Oct 18, 2016)

daniela said:


> p.s. One question just for understanding: Why do I have to use an flashlight or an on the flash-shoe mounted trigger to control the flashes? What is the biult in wireless funtion in my 6D for?



I ( also ) recommend an Radiobased ( RT ) Triggering System, because of it´s Funktionality inside Softboxes etc.
There are cheap System´s - doing the Job you need.

For installed Light full manual Control of the Powersettings isn´t any Problem, (E)TTL is useful for changing Environment.

I am using some Kind of Softboxes and Umbrellas for my Shoots, in the last Weeks i found Adapter/Flashholder useful to use normal Speedlites with Standardsoftboxbajonett :

http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_S_type_Speedlite_Bracket.html

It does not cost that much ( 15-30€/$ ) - and supports also usage of Umbrellas and so on.

I also recomment to concentrate yourself to one Light first - an Umrella ( for reflection or shoot-through ).
Softboxes for non Studiospeedlites are often overpriced, with the Speedlite Bracket you could use cheap One´s.
( Don´t try to use big Softboxes with small Speedlites - this will not work best )
Firefly and SMDV mostly support only one Flash in the Box -> often not enough Power Outdoor.
( Good Mechanics - but poor Power )


I am using 4-5 Canon RT Speedlites depending on the Requirement of the planned Shot, sometimes 4 600RT´s combined to fill a larger Softbox - or to get enough Power for Outside against the Sun.

Im am also find a Possibility to use a Grid on the Softbox very useful - try to get a Version with installable Grid.

And try - and practice - build Reflektors with your Kids - have Fun !

Greetings Bernd


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## Bernd FMC (Oct 18, 2016)

lion rock said:


> Great photos, RFdesigner and Viggo.
> -r



+1 - and you can see how the shape of the Lightsource create the Kind of Highlight in the Eyes - so think about getting an round One if you don´t like rectangular Highlights in the Eye.


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## Viggo (Oct 18, 2016)

Bernd FMC said:


> lion rock said:
> 
> 
> > Great photos, RFdesigner and Viggo.
> ...



Thanks! And yes, I have a Octa, Stripbox, hardlight reflector and the Beauty Dish. The BD is my favorite but it's highly
Unforgiving, requires four stops more light than the hardlight reflector, but when you start to figure it out it's so different from the Octa. You don't get any round white hotspots that makes people look shiny, it spreads and lays the highlights so flattering, mattening the skin and enhances the features. It comes out already "edited" for skin. Feather it a bit and it becomes a hard light, wonderful!


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## rfdesigner (Oct 18, 2016)

Bernd FMC said:


> lion rock said:
> 
> 
> > Great photos, RFdesigner and Viggo.
> ...



Thanks, and yes shape matters, I like the square/rectangular as I always feel it looks more like a window, I must try adding some strips to make pretend mullions.


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## Alex_M (Oct 18, 2016)

Viggo, 
Great photos! Thanks. 

I have a question: Are you sure about your BD is responsible for the loss of 4 stops of light??? Typical loss of light from the silver BD is 1 stop and from the white one is 2 stops of light? Just making sure... thanks




Viggo said:


> Bernd FMC said:
> 
> 
> > lion rock said:
> ...


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## privatebydesign (Oct 19, 2016)

Alex_M said:


> Viggo,
> Great photos! Thanks.
> 
> I have a question: Are you sure about your BD is responsible for the loss of 4 stops of light??? Typical loss of light from the silver BD is 1 stop and from the white one is 2 stops of light? Just making sure... thanks
> ...



That's not what he said, he said _"the BD takes four stops more than the hard light reflector"_. In my experience the BD costs just over two and the 32º Narrow Beam Reflector adds just under two.

P.S. I actually find the PCB 11" Long Throw Reflector at $29.95 to be every bit as effective as the Profoto Narrow Beam Reflector for $334.


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## Viggo (Oct 19, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Alex_M said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo,
> ...



Indeed it does take four more stops, I have the Profoto Softlighter White. And my hardlight reflector is the epic Profoto Magnun which actually adds a full stop of light compared to Profoto's own standard hardlight reflector.

But let's flip and say you would put the B1 at full power in the Magnum, *minimum firing distance to avoid blindness and burnt eyebrows; 200 ft 8)


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## Bernd FMC (Oct 19, 2016)

Sometimes the Visibility of the Light Modifiers is disturbing me :

( 150 silver Relex Umbrella to the left und 80cm Shotthrough Umbrella to the Right


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## Valvebounce (Oct 19, 2016)

And the prize for this mornings quote to make me laugh goes to Viggo for this line. 

"But let's flip and say you would put the B1 at full power in the Magnum, **minimum firing distance to avoid blindness and burnt eyebrows; 200 ft* 8) "

Cheers, Graham.


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## Viggo (Oct 19, 2016)

Bernd FMC said:


> Sometimes the Visibility of the Light Modifiers is disturbing me :
> 
> ( 150 silver Relex Umbrella to the left und 80cm Shotthrough Umbrella to the Right



That's one of the biggest reasons I don't shoot portraits with umbrellas, that "spider-catchlight". That and wind


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## Viggo (Oct 19, 2016)

Valvebounce said:


> And the prize for this mornings quote to make me laugh goes to Viggo for this line.
> 
> "But let's flip and say you would put the B1 at full power in the Magnum, **minimum firing distance to avoid blindness and burnt eyebrows; 200 ft* 8) "
> 
> Cheers, Graham.



Glad I could help! ;D


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