# New 1D series blew out my arm!



## MrFotoFool (Jan 23, 2017)

I picked up a used 1D mkIV, my first 1D series camera with built in grip. My main camera is 5D series (first mkII and now mkIII), so I am used to a fairly heavy body. I have never had an issue (though I often use a tripod).

I used the 1D mkIV with my 70-200 f2.8 handheld for a couple hours at a private photo shoot at a wild cat center. (I had my tripod but ended up not using it). Ever since that trip almost three weeks ago my right elbow has been hurting when I use it for anything (even brushing teeth). Went to urgent care today and I have tendonitis (aka tennis elbow), presumably as a result of the shoot with the heavy gear.

So if anyone is considering a 1D series, make sure you are careful and use a strap or tripod whenever possible. (I stupidly did not get a strap so I carried it by hand the entire time).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 23, 2017)

Sorry for your health issues! 

I sometimes use a shoulder strap with my 1D X, but often I'm just holding it in one hand. I do find that using the E1hand strap takes much of the strain, and I have not had any joint issues whatsoever.


----------



## GammyKnee (Jan 23, 2017)

As someone who has had both varieties of elbow epicondylitis (tennis & golfers) I can strongly advise the following:

- Get yourself a "Theraband flexbar" of the approriate grade (it was blue for me, but I lift heavy weights)
- Google the "Tyler Twist" exercise and get to it.
- Avoid the temptation to use anti-inflammatories and don't waste money on elbow compression straps.

That will fix your problem, and let you get back to enjoying your new camera.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 23, 2017)

I had to sell my 1D MK IV a few years back after suffering carpal tunnel in my hands, and pinching nerves in my arm and shoulder. I've regained some use since then, but just saw my surgeon about possible arm surgery due to the pinched nerves, so I'm going to avoid anything heavier than my 5D MK III.

I don't know if the camera caused the issue, or using my computer mouse to edit images by the 1000's, but it has been painful.


----------



## MrFotoFool (Jan 24, 2017)

@GammyKnee - thanks for the tip! This video seems to confirm your endorsement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we4UoiKG3Co


----------



## dslrdummy (Jan 24, 2017)

If I'm going to be shooting at a location for any extended period (i.e. like your wild cat centre), I always have it on a shoulder strap and use a monopod whenever possible. I'm slightly built and have never had any arm/elbow issues.


----------



## AlanF (Jan 25, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I had to sell my 1D MK IV a few years back after suffering carpal tunnel in my hands, and pinching nerves in my arm and shoulder. I've regained some use since then, but just saw my surgeon about possible arm surgery due to the pinched nerves, so I'm going to avoid anything heavier than my 5D MK III.
> 
> I don't know if the camera caused the issue, or using my computer mouse to edit images by the 1000's, but it has been painful.



I got "mouse finger" a couple of years ago and went over to a touchpad, which cured the problem.


----------



## sanj (Jan 26, 2017)

Are you absolutely sure the camera caused it? These elbow pains can manifest from just about anything - a jerk while opening the car door, twist while sleeping etc. etc.

The camera is not that heavy to necessarily cause this. IMHO.


----------



## MrFotoFool (Sep 18, 2017)

Giving an update to an old thread. My arm did heal (took a few months) and I did use the 1D4 with a tripod mostly (and with a strap when not). However I just never got used to it being so heavy. Since I have always used the 5D series which are robust, I thought the small increase in weight would not be an issue. But it was.

So today I sent off both bodies (1D4 and 5D3) plus one lens to KEH and will get enough for a 5D4 to replace both previous bodies. I ordered a refurbished 5D4 last night from Canon. Based on my experience I would encourage those wishing to upgrade to a 1D series to try one out before you buy it to see if it will be comfortable for you.


----------



## NancyP (Sep 19, 2017)

The problem isn't in the gear, it is in the user's lack of conditioning. I had the same issue a while back, following the first time in a long time hand-holding a Big (well, Medium - 400 f/5.6L) White during a birding day, found the next day that my ulnar (funny-bone) side elbow hurt a lot when I tried to pick up things. I have recovered due to rest and re-conditioning. The disorder you describe is likely medial epicondylitis, AKA golfer's elbow. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golfer%27s_elbow
You can do various stretching exercises involving the wrist and elbow movements, as seen in a good many YouTube physiotherapy videos and pdf patient handouts. In addition to these, I used a flexible rubber bar for resistance: http://info.thera-bandacademy.com/flexbarelbowmedial


----------



## MrFotoFool (Sep 19, 2017)

I did (and still do) use the rubber bar as part of recovery. Someone early on this thread suggested it, for which I am grateful.


----------



## NancyP (Sep 19, 2017)

It might have been me. I swear by it. It stays out in my exercise nook along with the teensie (1#, 2#, 5#) dumbbells, as a reminder to work the wrists once in a while. Squats and lunges may be great, but they aren't everything.


----------



## scottkinfw (Sep 19, 2017)

Ouch.

I agree with Neuro. A hand strap and good neck strap are helpful. I like Peak Design.

It is heavy and with the big whites, it may not be for you.

sek



MrFotoFool said:


> I picked up a used 1D mkIV, my first 1D series camera with built in grip. My main camera is 5D series (first mkII and now mkIII), so I am used to a fairly heavy body. I have never had an issue (though I often use a tripod).
> 
> I used the 1D mkIV with my 70-200 f2.8 handheld for a couple hours at a private photo shoot at a wild cat center. (I had my tripod but ended up not using it). Ever since that trip almost three weeks ago my right elbow has been hurting when I use it for anything (even brushing teeth). Went to urgent care today and I have tendonitis (aka tennis elbow), presumably as a result of the shoot with the heavy gear.
> 
> So if anyone is considering a 1D series, make sure you are careful and use a strap or tripod whenever possible. (I stupidly did not get a strap so I carried it by hand the entire time).


----------



## aceflibble (Sep 20, 2017)

Funnily enough, I miss the weight of the 1D cameras. I ditched them as the 1DX (and X2) obviously moved more toward speed, and I had been using the 1Ds line for the sake of resolution/image quality. (Remember, when the 1Ds2 came out it was the only SLR which could match medium format for resolution at the time.) As the 5D line took up the resolution/image quality race, I started using those with grips. Still didn't feel right so I went back to the 1Ds3 and took to just stacking files to get higher resolutions and cleaner images. Now since the 5DS R I've not been able to justify sticking with the 1Ds3, and I got a Phase as well for when image stacking isn't an option and I need high quality in a single shot... but I miss that 1D feel. I miss the dimensions. I miss the grip. I miss _not_ having a mode dial. I miss slamming those big batteries in. I miss the shutter sounds (especially the 1Ds2, which sounds like something from a sci-fi film). I miss the cushion shutter. Most of all, I miss the weight. Yeah, the Phase is just as heavy, but it's heavy in a different way, the balance is all off, and the very nature of it means it lives on a tripod, not in my hand. It's not the same as having a 1D in your hand all day.

... And I can barely walk, most mornings. Too much carrying heavy camera equipment and heavy music equipment. No one incident, just built up over a period of about three years. Two spine surgeries, some permanent loss of feeling in both legs, often have to rely on a walking stick in the mornings. I'm 30 and my back is more broken down than my father's, who's in his 60s. 

I can still hold a 600mm shot steady at 1/100th without IS, but boy, I can't carry that lens to and from its destination. I can lift a 1D but I can't use it for a shoot. About 2 minutes of shooting is my maximum with gear like that now, handheld. Obviously a tripod negates that but there's not much advantage to a 1D when it's on a tripod; those things are meant to be in the thick of action.

Moral is, even if you don't have one big incident where your body suffers, carrying around heavy gear _will_ build up if you're not a professional weight lifter. For OP it was one afternoon. A friend of mine developed severe muscle and joint problems in their left arm and shoulder six months after they happened to purchase a particularly heavy guitar, and was playing it nearly every day. For me it was three years. For someone else it might be ten years. But it'll be there, however sudden or slow it may be.

I _love_ those heavy 1D bodies. My dream camera is still basically a 5DS R but in a 1D body. But yeah, it's not worth it. Never ignore your body telling you to stop. Doesn't matter if it's a heavy body or a heavy lens, a heavy bag full of gear, or whatever. Cut out what you don't _need_, and look for lighter alternatives for the things you do need. No piece of equipment, no matter how objectively great it may be or how much you like it, is worth damaging your body for.


----------



## Perio (Sep 20, 2017)

I love 1d series cameras, as they have amazingly comfortable grip. So, even though it's heavier than 5d series, the handling is very comfortable and easy.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Sep 20, 2017)

Funny, when I pick up the 1DX2 and 400 DO II in its pack bag I can't believe how heavy it is. 

When I walk around with it cross slung over my shoulder with its large Jobu mount to grasp, it doesn't phase me, even on 4-5 hour hikes. My strap is short and I tension against it shooting and I balance the weight when walking about 50-50, that is, holding the unit by the Jobu vs. letting it hang from my shoulder with hand on the Jobu, that faces up. It tucks into the crotch of my arm when pulling into the Jobu mount. Without the Jobu I wouldn't be nearly as happy. 

Of course I would prefer less weight but the camera grip is substantial and that's a big plus with big lenses. The 6D felt pretty awkward after shooting with the 1DX2 . Now, for tourist type shots with a wider lens I can't really say I'd prefer the 1DX2, it's just too bulky and heavy.

So far, as a lighter build, 140 lb. 68 year old, no complaints handling the gear but don't get me wrong ... I know the day will come. 

Jack


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 20, 2017)

This thread feels like one big confirmation that I did the right thing deciding to use the 1100D instead of the 5D2 for birding.

The 400f5.6 plus a small Rebel are a perfect match.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Sep 20, 2017)

Everyone has different desires and expectations that come with a cost. I fully understand those who don't want the extra hassle/cost. The cost will be dollars in pretty much all situations and weight if we're talking longer lenses. 

Some are shooting with 600 F4, which I have no interest in doing, but having decent 800mm F8 for birding/wildlife has certainly pushed the fun factor upward for me in spite of the weight, which I consider hand-holdable manageable. When a photo I couldn't get before becomes a reality all the negatives just evaporate and I'm thrilled and that's happening a lot. It's all about fun for me and if it isn't fun then of course I'll abandon it.

Jack


----------



## NancyP (Sep 20, 2017)

My well-loved 400 f/5.6L and an APS-C body (60D formerly, now 7D2) fits reasonably well on a Cotton Carrier vest, allowing me to use hiking poles or an extended monopod as single hiking pole on steeper or muddier sections of a hike. Any longer than 10" lens, I would be having trouble walking due to lens hitting legs (I am short-waisted). It is a fun lens to use, particularly if you like to hand-hold and shoot birds in flight. It did a commendable job for the eclipse, too. The lens/body balance is good when using a consumer body as I do. I imagine that the Big Whites probably handle better on the 1D series bodies, both for balance and for speed of focus (more grams of glass to push around, needing more voltage from battery than provided by LP-E6).


----------



## old-pr-pix (Sep 20, 2017)

Olympus marketing ploy... DSLR Arm: https://youtu.be/xNo5H1cK_gQ


----------



## Jack Douglas (Sep 20, 2017)

NancyP said:


> My well-loved 400 f/5.6L and an APS-C body (60D formerly, now 7D2) fits reasonably well on a Cotton Carrier vest, allowing me to use hiking poles or an extended monopod as single hiking pole on steeper or muddier sections of a hike. Any longer than 10" lens, I would be having trouble walking due to lens hitting legs (I am short-waisted). It is a fun lens to use, particularly if you like to hand-hold and shoot birds in flight. It did a commendable job for the eclipse, too. The lens/body balance is good when using a consumer body as I do. I imagine that the Big Whites probably handle better on the 1D series bodies, both for balance and for speed of focus (more grams of glass to push around, needing more voltage from battery than provided by LP-E6).



Everything I've ever read/heard about that 400 is positive and it's not a new lens either. It is true that there is a balance factor that matters, not just weight but a big lens and big camera certainly is (too) heavy.

Funny, it just registered; I'm about 5'9 before shrinking, with 29 inch pant leg so that means my upper body is longer and obviously that's helping me since I don't have the issue you raise. However, I keep my strap as short as possible for tension when I'm shooting. I never hang a camera "around" my neck.

Jack


----------



## Jack Douglas (Sep 20, 2017)

A sad reality for those of us getting up in years or those who have had injuries. Giving up is not nice so work arounds such as lighter gear is very important assuming technique can't be modified. I have my fingers crossed for now.

I like to hike, while my shooting buddy, now deceased, couldn't walk 100 yards. It made me ever so thankful I still have my legs. For those with issues, my sympathies and encouragement to keep trying.

Jack


----------



## canon1dxman (Sep 20, 2017)

Perio said:


> I love 1d series cameras, as they have amazingly comfortable grip. So, even though it's heavier than 5d series, the handling is very comfortable and easy.


Me too. Just come back from a CPS landscape event in the New Forest (UK) and had my 1DX2 plus a loaner 5DIV to use. No complaints about the 5 series but the 1D just balances perfectly on the grip.


----------



## ethanz (Sep 20, 2017)

old-pr-pix said:


> Olympus marketing ploy... DSLR Arm: https://youtu.be/xNo5H1cK_gQ



That is great! ;D


----------



## Jack Douglas (Sep 21, 2017)

ethanz said:


> old-pr-pix said:
> 
> 
> > Olympus marketing ploy... DSLR Arm: https://youtu.be/xNo5H1cK_gQ
> ...



Looks like I'd barely be able to hang onto it with a 600 lens or are the lenses that small too? 

Jack


----------



## Valvebounce (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi canon1dxman. 
I was there too, evening (what sunset?) shoot, borrowed the 17mm TS-E, had great fun trying to get my head around that beast, started to get the hang of it towards the end of the day. 
Met some interesting people there too. 
I have never done an event like this before and I thought it was excellent, lectures, transport to and from shooting locations, food and loan gear all laid on for free. 

Cheers, Graham. 



canon1dxman said:


> Just come back from a CPS landscape event in the New Forest (UK) and had my 1DX2 plus a loaner 5DIV to use. No complaints about the 5 series but the 1D just balances perfectly on the grip.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Sep 22, 2017)

Wow, how do I sign up? 

Jack


----------



## Valvebounce (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi Jack. 
Accrue enough gear points (European route in to CPS) be amongst the first to respond yes to the mass email campaign asking if you would like to attend! 

Cheers, Graham. 



Jack Douglas said:


> Wow, how do I sign up?
> 
> Jack


----------



## Jack Douglas (Sep 22, 2017)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Jack.
> Accrue enough gear points (European route in to CPS) be amongst the first to respond yes to the mass email campaign asking if you would like to attend!
> 
> Cheers, Graham.
> ...



And then I have to fly to England?  

However, my son is now studying in London, so .... dream on.

Jack


----------



## ethanz (Sep 22, 2017)

England is a bit smaller than USA or Canada. CPS America would have a hard time putting on an event where you could attend. Probably makes it nicer for CPS England people.


----------



## RGF (Sep 22, 2017)

dslrdummy said:


> If I'm going to be shooting at a location for any extended period (i.e. like your wild cat centre), I always have it on a shoulder strap and use a monopod whenever possible. I'm slightly built and have never had any arm/elbow issues.



I think the monopod is a good idea but I don't like neck straps. If you mean something like a blackrapid, that is a good idea.


----------



## Valvebounce (Sep 23, 2017)

Hi Ethanz. 
Yes Britain is smaller than the USA, but we think nothing of bitching and moaning about driving a couple of hundred miles! 
CPS do scatter the events around the country so that we don't have to bitch and moan too much. ;D

Cheers, Graham. 



ethanz said:


> England is a bit smaller than USA or Canada. CPS America would have a hard time putting on an event where you could attend. Probably makes it nicer for CPS England people.


----------



## tron (Sep 25, 2017)

When I had to hand hold a 7D2 with a 500 f/4 IS II on a boat for one to two hours (but of course not continuously) I felt slight fatigue when moving it for a couple of months. After this I started using much more my 400 DO II and took the 500 only when a car was available. But even so I used again on a boat but I had also taken a tripod with gimbal. Although it proved to be a rather big set and not so practical it saved my hand. Some of the rest of the shots were made by resting the lens on the boat side (when it was not moving) and only a few shots were shot handheld.

But the trick is to always use the lens strap for the big (or not so big) white lenses. For a 70-200 2.8 or a 100-400 I believe the camera strap would be enough.


----------



## MrFotoFool (Nov 1, 2017)

To follow up, I finally got to try out the 5D4 last week on a short trip to San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. (The camera arrived a month ago but it sat unused for three weeks due to time constraints). It is perfect and a great upgrade - much thanks to those who pointed me in that direction. It has the focus tracking speed of my old 1D4 and the form factor and resolution (plus more) of my old 5D3. I used it most of the time in AI Servo and it tracked subjects effortlessly. Here's a baby hippo to add some color to this thread.


----------



## brianftpc (Nov 3, 2017)

Ive used the 1Dx and 1Dx mk2 since 2012...ive used it 12 hours in a day before. I used it 12 hours in a day for 5 straight days. The only thing that hurt was my finger pushing the shutter button so many times. I am 5ft 9 and weigh 145 pounds. Its not the cameras...you have something wrong with your body. I dont use a strap or monopod.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Nov 3, 2017)

brianftpc said:


> Ive used the 1Dx and 1Dx mk2 since 2012...ive used it 12 hours in a day before. I used it 12 hours in a day for 5 straight days. The only thing that hurt was my finger pushing the shutter button so many times. I am 5ft 9 and weigh 145 pounds. Its not the cameras...you have something wrong with your body. I dont use a strap or monopod.



Sounds vaguely similar to me describing the things I lifted and carried and now at 68 ... oh, my poor aching back!  Actually, I'm not joking. These things have a way of coming back to haunt you.

BTW, I am now packing the 1DX2 with the 400 DO but with a strap over my shoulder and gimbal tripod mount I can lift with to assist my shoulder. It's not yet a problem but ...

Jack


----------



## Mikehit (Nov 3, 2017)

brianftpc said:


> ...you have something wrong with your body. I dont use a strap or monopod.



If the increased weight of the camera resulted in a musculoskeletal damage, the underlying physiological reason is irrelevant. The fact is getting a heavier camera may have strained something and the answer is the same - downgrade the gear or do physiotherapy/stengthening exercises. 

And their doesn't need to be 'something wrong' with his body just because he cannot manage the same weight a you - it may just be that his body has not got used to the particular physical requirements.


----------



## Hector1970 (Nov 18, 2017)

I shot a concert two nights in a row with a 5D IV and 70-200mm lens and ended up with a rotator cuff problem in my shoulder that took months to overcome.
I've used a monopod more often since and am conscious not to keep my arm extended for too long.
Its certainly something to be wary of.
Heavy gear can cause issues over time.


----------

