# Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Preorders Start June 22, 2017



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 12, 2017)

```
It looks like we’re finally going to see pricing and preorders for the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG HSM OS Art series lens this week, and maybe as soon as today.</p>
<p>Sigma <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/sigma-announces-the-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm/">announced the 24-70mm f/2.8 DG HSM OS Art lens back in February</a> alongside the 135mm f/1.8 Art and 100-400mm f/5-6.3 OS C which have started shipping and the highly anticipated 14mm f/1.8 Art series lens, which has yet to have a ship date.</p>
<p>We will notify you as soon as preorders become live.</p>
<p><strong>*UPDATE*</strong></p>
<p><em><a href="https://bhpho.to/2swJrCl">Preorders for the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG HSM OS Art</a> will begin at 1:00AM, Thursday, June 22. Pricing is not currently known.</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
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## Cory (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

Are Sigma Art lenses often good-to-go on something like a 6D without any adjustment?
Thanks.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.



Cory said:


> Are Sigma Art lenses often good-to-go on something like a 6D without any adjustment?
> Thanks.


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## CanonGuy (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



SecureGSM said:


> Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is no possibility that you own 20 art lenses and none worked out of the box! I have 24, 35 and 50 art. All.kf them work without any afma on both my 6d and 5d3. I had issues with my first copy of 35 art. Returned that and 2nd copy works fine.

Please stop spreading false claims.


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## RGF (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



CanonGuy said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> ...



CanonGuy

I believe you misunderstood SecureGSM comments. Here is how I read his comment.

He is saying that passed upon his experience of 20 Sigma lenses, there is no guarantee than any one lens will not require some AFMA adjustment. Some may be spot on, others may require a bit of adjustment.


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## Cory (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

It's all good. I take from that that it may be OK and it might not. 
With that, I may order this potentially remarkable lens and then immediately return it if not.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

. here we go. Firstly, I know what I am talking about. I have seen quite a few that were spot on out of the box at x50 focal length but never spot on at MFD, Infinity, x50 and in between. does not exist. period... The largest deviation from the norm with Sigma Art and Sports lenses I have ecountered so far are at MFD and at Infinity. I presently own the following Sigma Art and Sports Lenses:

24 Art, 35 Art, 50 Art, 85 Art, 135 Art, 120-300 Sports lenses
There is nothing that good AFMA can't fix though.



CanonGuy said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> ...


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## deorum (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



SecureGSM said:


> Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How would you compare the sigma usb-dock, vs the usual AFMF from the camera? 
Is it better more reliable?


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## SecureGSM (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

great question. thank you. traditional in camera calibration of a prime lens conducted at around x50 focal length of the lens. Your Canon or Tamron lenses usually can be calibrated in camera. With Sigma Art and Sports lenses I found that a single point, in camera calibration at x50 focal length of the lens is not enough to ensure that you are going to get the best AF performance at MFD and at infinity.
I found that Sigma Art and Sport prime lenses need to be calibrated at 4 distances to the target otherwise you going to get a substantial deviation from best AF results if you shoot at MFD or infinity unless you shoot with UWA prime where DoF is quite forgiving. Sigma USB dock provides 4 caibration points for primes and 16 calibration points for zoom lenses. It can be very time consuming with longer zooms but worth it.




deorum said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> ...


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## NancyP (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

A percentage of all manufacturers' lenses and all manufacturers' cameras when combined can have unsatifactory autofocus "out of the box". Cameras (lens mounts) and lenses are made to very tight tolerances, but there is still a small range of "acceptable" dimensions achieved in mass manufacturing. If your specific camera is right in the middle of size variance and your specific lens is right in the middle of intended size variance for that camera system mount, then things will work "out of the box". If you have a camera and lens pair that are at the same end of the allowable range (both short or both long), you will need to make a microadjustment to your AF system. 

My 6D gets on just fine with the AF on my Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4.


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## MrFotoFool (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

AFMA is an interesting topic. Personally I have never tried to do it and have never found a need for it. I do have some large aperture lenses where I would think I would notice if autofocus was off (Canon 70-200 f2.8 and Sigma 85 f1.4). As I said I have never tried it so perhaps if I knew how and I put them on a test chart I might find that I needed some adjustment on at least some lenses. However in real life use all of my lenses appear to focus fine with no adjustment. So either I am not that picky or those who do AFMA are paranoid. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.


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## LesC (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



MrFotoFool said:


> AFMA is an interesting topic. Personally I have never tried to do it and have never found a need for it. I do have some large aperture lenses where I would think I would notice if autofocus was off (Canon 70-200 f2.8 and Sigma 85 f1.4). As I said I have never tried it so perhaps if I knew how and I put them on a test chart I might find that I needed some adjustment on at least some lenses. However in real life use all of my lenses appear to focus fine with no adjustment. So either I am not that picky or those who do AFMA are paranoid. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.



Same here - I've never used it either. When i get a new lens I tend to test it by focussing on something really close at the widest aperture & if it seems sharp at 100% I consider it to be OK. But perhaps I'm missing out?

For those who do use AFMA, do you test each new lens routinely or only if you suspect the focus is out?

It's always seemed a bit too long winded a process too but perhaps i should invest in Reikan FoCal although their site seemed to suggest there were some issues using it with the EOS 6D.

However with regard to SecureGSM's comments, is it because Sigma has poor QC or that they need AFMA more for some other reason?


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## cellomaster27 (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



LesC said:


> MrFotoFool said:
> 
> 
> > AFMA is an interesting topic. Personally I have never tried to do it and have never found a need for it. I do have some large aperture lenses where I would think I would notice if autofocus was off (Canon 70-200 f2.8 and Sigma 85 f1.4). As I said I have never tried it so perhaps if I knew how and I put them on a test chart I might find that I needed some adjustment on at least some lenses. However in real life use all of my lenses appear to focus fine with no adjustment. So either I am not that picky or those who do AFMA are paranoid. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
> ...



First off, I'm really really excited to see this lens come out!! I have no doubt that sigma will compete with canon's offerings without much problem. 

talking about AFMA though, I've had to AFMA a few of my lenses - they were the canon ones too. Especially the ones that I use primarily for portraits. When you need the sharpest of the sharpest focus at the eyes, man, AFMA can make or break your shoot. It's just a pain that you have to AFMA it at the close and long end. I'm still a novice at it but it is a very very useful tool that I appreciate.


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## michi (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

I'm also pretty excited about this lens. Have the EF 24-70L 2.8 and was hoping the II would have IS, then I would have spent my money on it. Without, I couldn't justify spending that much. My hope is that the Sigma is better than the one I have and also around or below $1,400. We shall see.

As to AFMA, I have used it on prior cameras and agree that with the single adjustment, it didn't seem to make much sense on most lenses. I did dial it in for my EF 85mm 1.8 at the typical portrait distance I shoot at. However, when I got the 5DIV, I don't seem to need any adjustment (at least noticeable to me) for any of my lenses.


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## Luds34 (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



NancyP said:


> My 6D gets on just fine with the AF on my Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4.



Ditto. And I spend most my time at f/1.4. Maybe we're just lucky. 

Among my current lenses, I had to AFMA my 100mm f/2.8L macro and the tele end of my 70-200 f/2.8L. But many of my lenses have been pretty spot on right out of the box. Most my lenses are newer (manufactured in the past few years) and I have this working theory that the tolerances have gotten better and better.


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## Diko (Jun 12, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

Finally!


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## IglooEater (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

Sigma's latest releases have all been stellar, so I'm especially interested in the price point of this one.


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## ricky_005 (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

Why a Sigma with no IS when Canon is about to release one with IS


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## SecureGSM (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

OS in the name of the lens stands for Optical Stabiliser. 



ricky_005 said:


> Why a Sigma with no IS when Canon is about to release one with IS


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## ozwineguy (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



SecureGSM said:


> Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have two issues that have held me back from the Sigma Arts, so I'm keen to hear your take on them.

1. I had a 35mm ART on my Canon 6D. I did find the occasional complete AF miss (i.e., not just a small miss, in that AFMA would fix this, and not a miss because the AF point accidentally fell on something other than the intended subject). Have you experienced much of this with the lenses that you have and, if so, have you experienced it more with the "older" ones (i.e., 50mm and 35mm)? That is, should I be less concerned about this with the more recent 85mm and 135mm?

2. I shoot RAW + JPEG (for a few reasons, but often because I want to get images out of the camera on the spot and send them to the person in the image, e.g., shots of my extended families when we get together). I know this annoys some people, but it's what works for me. When I changed from a 6D to a 5Ds, there was an incompatibility with the Sigma 35mm Art, in that the JPEGs showed "rings" in the images. Turned out that this was because I had certain corrections turned on, although when I sent the images to the Sigma reps here in Australia, they had no idea what the cause was. I'd prefer to leave this setting on for when I shoot with Canon glass, and I don't want to think about diving into menus to change settings like this each time I change lenses. Do you know if this has been resolved with a firmware update for the older Art lenses? Obviously this is a limitation of buying third party glass.

Essentially, I want to get a fast 50mm lens, and none of the Canon offerings seem worthwhile. I'm waiting just like everyone else for a new release! In the meantime, I'm considering the Sigma 50mm, but given my issues with the 35mm, I'm hesitant. Your thoughts would be appreciated - thanks in advance.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

1. Sigma 35 Art, 50 Art AF misbehavior: unfortunately, the issue is due to the lens AF module design shortcomings, less evident in good light situation, with centre AF point selected and AF priority set to accuracy rather than speed. Far from being perfect though.
Sigma 85 Art and 135 Art are completely different animals in that regard. AF of these lenses is rock solid or as good as it gets.
2. rings issue: caused by the in camera Peripheral illumination correction enabled. AFAIK, this is more camera firmware than lens related. has not been fixed to date.I have heard of Tamron primes being also problematic in that regard.

3. depending on your shoting style and if you can afford an odd missed shot or two out of 10 , I would argue that Sigma 50 Art is a very good glass. Shooting in Live View mode takes care of the issue nicely of course. 
There are other options: Tamron 45 VC is one of those. Not a bad lens, at all. Many people swear by their Tamron 45 VC glass, I have seen some good reviews. Personally I saw no value in Tamron VC primes being a bit of a uninspiring, ordinary glass for my personal taste ( I am going to get flamed for this heresy pretty badly).
There is some nice Zeiss options but those are all manual focusing glass. kind of defeat the purpose for me. 
you can source virtualy unused and still under warranty Sigma 50 Art these days at around A$650 on Gumtree in 
Australia. I see them poping up quite regularly.



ozwineguy said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> ...


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## unfocused (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

As for AFMA, some people meticulously micro adjust every lens. Others take a much more casual approach, living within the manufacturerers' tolerances. There isn't a right or wrong answer, just different styles and approaches.


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## ozwineguy (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. Yes I do have a Zeiss 50mm (f2 Macro) which I LOVE, but as you note, MF does have its limitations.

Yes, the rings are firmware related, although the issue doesn't happen with the Zeiss, so it is at least somewhat related to the lens too.

Also curious as to whether the AF misses have improved. That is, if I got a more recently manufactured 50mm Art, if it would be better in this respect than the first few batches of 50mm Arts.

I've seen the Arts on Gumtree too and often come very close to buying one. With any luck, Canon will release a top notch 50mm soon. Again, thanks for your time.



SecureGSM said:


> 1. Sigma 35 Art, 50 Art AF misbehavior: unfortunately, the issue is due to the lens AF module design shortcomings, less evident in good light situation, with centre AF point selected and AF priority set to accuracy rather than speed. Far from being perfect though.
> Sigma 85 Art and 135 Art are completely different animals in that regard. AF of these lenses is rock solid or as good as it gets.
> 2. rings issue: caused by the in camera Peripheral illumination correction enabled. AFAIK, this is more camera firmware than lens related. has not been fixed to date.I have heard of Tamron primes being also problematic in that regard.
> 
> ...


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## SecureGSM (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

AF misses have not been improved with more recently manufactured Sigma 35 and 50 Art lenses unfortunately. My understanding is that Sigma would have to redesign the lens and include new higher torque AF motor instead of the old one to address the issue. 
Canon will release an awsome 50 mm 1.4 L lens, no doubt. My reservation is, if the earlier released Canon 35 F1.4 L II Australian street price for an authorised lens being A$2,500.00 is something to go by, then I can pretty much forget about it and resort to something more realistic at this stage  I am happy to miss one or two shots once in a while. I Cannot afford the richness and awsomeness of the A$3,000.00 50mm prime lens  



ozwineguy said:


> Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. Yes I do have a Zeiss 50mm (f2 Macro) which I LOVE, but as you note, MF does have its limitations.
> 
> Yes, the rings are firmware related, although the issue doesn't happen with the Zeiss, so it is at least somewhat related to the lens too.
> 
> ...


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## SecureGSM (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*

to demonstarate what exactly I was talking about I attached my Sigma 120 300 F2.8 Sports calibration table. it is quite self-explanatory though. as you can note there is no a single universal AFMA value that is good for all calibration points (distances to target) and focal lengths. On contrary AFMA correction amount required (variation) from MFD to infinity are quite extreme. from extreme front focusing at MFD (1.5-2.5m) to extrme back focusing at Infinity (50m).
As you can see, if in camera AFMA settings set to correct lens at MFD, then at infinity lens will be out of tune by -25 AFMA point. this is very substantial back focusing. I mean massive one.
I spoke with Sigma service on numerous ocasions and all they can offer is in lens AFMA calibration at x50 and not at entire lens range.

and no, my camera is not faulty or out of tune. all my Canon and Tamron lenses are almost perfect AFMA wise out of the box and across entire range from MFD to infinity. I own 2 Canon 6D bodies and get similar AFMA numbers for the Cam1 and Cam 2.
and no, this lens is not a bad copy, it is insanely sharp when properly calibrated. my other Sigma Art lenses behave in a similar manner. not to that extreme levels like my longest telephoto but AFMA variations from -10 to +10 MFD to Infinity seems to be a norm for the modern Sigma glass.



NancyP said:


> A percentage of all manufacturers' lenses and all manufacturers' cameras when combined can have unsatifactory autofocus "out of the box". Cameras (lens mounts) and lenses are made to very tight tolerances, but there is still a small range of "acceptable" dimensions achieved in mass manufacturing. If your specific camera is right in the middle of size variance and your specific lens is right in the middle of intended size variance for that camera system mount, then things will work "out of the box". If you have a camera and lens pair that are at the same end of the allowable range (both short or both long), you will need to make a microadjustment to your AF system.
> 
> My 6D gets on just fine with the AF on my Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4.


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## canonrumorsbug (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*







SecureGSM said:


> Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you please make a youtube video. I got the dock and the 35mm ART was still not fixed. I kept missing focus and I just couldnt find it consistent. And so I finally got the Canon 35mm and my hit rate it way way up and I feel confident. I am a big fan of the ART lenses but somehow they need to figure a way to improve their autofocus. I like the dock idea. I think it should be free. Also once someone uses it it should work.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 13, 2017)

I've just launched the first episode of a three part series on AFMA. What it is, how to do it, how to use software like Reikan FoCal, Sigma USB dock, and Tamron Tap In, and how to do manual calibration.

The playlist is here: http://bit.ly/AFMAPlay

The second episode in the current series goes live tomorrow.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



canonrumorsbug said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> ...



The 35 ART, 50 ART (and, worse still - the 18-35 ART) may have problems that cannot be fixed with calibration in some cases. The problem is in autofocus inconsistency, where you don't get either a consistent front focus or backfocus. Some people report great results with the 35 ART, but that was not my experience. In controlled tests I found focus inconsistencies when I reviewed it. The 18-35 was even worse for me. The USB dock unfortunately did not fix this problem, as it was related to focus inconsistency. 

I'm currently testing the 100-400 C, and there my experience is just as SecureGSM is describing. Yes, there are quite different values for different focus distances, but, once calibrated, the lens is giving me consistent focus results.


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## bereninga (Jun 13, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> I've just launched the first episode of a three part series on AFMA. What it is, how to do it, how to use software like Reikan FoCal, Sigma USB dock, and Tamron Tap In, and how to do manual calibration.
> 
> The playlist is here: http://bit.ly/AFMAPlay
> 
> The second episode in the current series goes live tomorrow.



Thank you, Dustin, for all of the work that you do. Your reviews are so helpful, informative and thorough.

As for AF issues w/ the Sigma 50mm Art and 6D, I've had no focusing problems and I've had mine for two years. Maybe I just happened to get a good copy or there is a focusing issue that I just haven't experienced yet. I haven't thoroughly tested it or done any AF adjustment, but just from everyday use I haven't experienced any AF problems.

Anyone who does experience an issue though, I would try the Sigma dock or contact Sigma for some sort of resolution.


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## albron00 (Jun 13, 2017)

If any chance Canon is going to produce f2.8 with IS ?


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## ashmadux (Jun 13, 2017)

*Re: Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Pricing & Availability to be Announced Shortly*



SecureGSM said:


> Cory, I have own(ed) more than 20 Sigma Art and Sport lenses in total, and helped many other photographers in getting their Sigma Art and Sport lenses AFMAed right, I can attest that there is not a single chance in the world that any given Sigma Art or Sport lens may be absolutely "spot on" out of the box on Canon 6D unless you shoot in live View mode exclusively, be prepared to invest some time in AFMA calibration. You do need the Sigma USB dock to achieve a solid result though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This, this and more this.

My 6D has never been as good with AF even on my canon lenses, I cant imagine what sigma's lenses would have to go through. This camera has the worst Af system of most any camera of the last 10 years. That's for in the field/outdoors...For studio, it generally works great with those big packheads because theres can be so much light, its hard to fail. 


My 2c


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## ashmadux (Jun 13, 2017)

Instead of harping on what needs AMFA :  :-\ and what doesn't ("mine works, your should too :'( "), why don't EVERYONE here that thinks they know something, *barrage canon with requests to add auto AFMA to their cameras already*.

AFMA is the single biggest time waster with new lens. It's sucks to have to be able to do it at all. Don't just yap about it...*send in those requests to canon. * Demand better.

Nikon has it now, why cant we for the thousands we spend on canon gear?


Forest/Trees


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## Mistral75 (Jun 13, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> (...)
> **UPDATE**
> Preorders for the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG HSM OS Art will begin at 1:00AM, Thursday, June 22. Pricing is not currently known.



Same for the Sigma 14mm f/1.8 DG HSM Art:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1321306-REG/sigma_14mm_f_1_8_dg_hsm.html


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## BeenThere (Jun 13, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> I've just launched the first episode of a three part series on AFMA. What it is, how to do it, how to use software like Reikan FoCal, Sigma USB dock, and Tamron Tap In, and how to do manual calibration.
> 
> The playlist is here: http://bit.ly/AFMAPlay
> 
> The second episode in the current series goes live tomorrow.


I watched your first video. Very thorough.
A question:
If you perform a full sigma dock cal on a particular Sigma lens and Canon body, will the lens cal still work on a different Canon body by just doing one off-set with the in body AFMA?


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 13, 2017)

BeenThere said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > I've just launched the first episode of a three part series on AFMA. What it is, how to do it, how to use software like Reikan FoCal, Sigma USB dock, and Tamron Tap In, and how to do manual calibration.
> ...



That's my experience, yes. The USB dock/Tap In can compensate for LENS focus biases at certain distances. A subsequent AFMA on a different body will compensate for that CAMERA'S focus bias. My 5D Mark IV, for example, has a front focus bias, so almost all lenses need + values for AFMA.


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## Hector1970 (Jun 13, 2017)

Talking of Sigma, has there been any update on the 14mm 1.8?


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## SecureGSM (Jun 13, 2017)

Yes, please note the link just a couple of posts above:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1321306-REG/sigma_14mm_f_1_8_dg_hsm.html





Hector1970 said:


> Talking of Sigma, has there been any update on the 14mm 1.8?


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## Jopa (Jun 14, 2017)

They need to make a blind pre-order. Do not announce the price at all. The customers will see their bank statement later and they will be surprised!


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## SecureGSM (Jun 14, 2017)

Here, my friend. As you wish  @$9,999.00 surely is a pure bargain. 

https://www.camerasdirect.com.au/sigma-24-70mm-f-2-8-art-lens-for-nikon




Jopa said:


> They need to make a blind pre-order. Do not announce the price at all. The customers will see their bank statement later and they will be surprised!


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 14, 2017)

The next episode in my series on how to do focus calibration is now live. This one deals with using Reikan FoCal to automate the process and also how to use this in conjunction with the Sigma USB dock or the Tamron Tap In Console.

http://bit.ly/Calibrate2


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## LesC (Jun 14, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> The next episode in my series on how to do focus calibration is now live. This one deals with using Reikan FoCal to automate the process and also how to use this in conjunction with the Sigma USB dock or the Tamron Tap In Console.
> 
> http://bit.ly/Calibrate2



Excellent video. A bit concerning that on the body/lens tested, the suggested AFMA settings made focus worse. Surely the point of Reikan Focal is to take the guesswork out of testing focus ?


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## SecureGSM (Jun 14, 2017)

LesC said:


> easiy explained, as Dustin mentioned not being able to calibrate at infinity due to limited room/space available.
> therefore some infitiny values may be not quite correct. in Dustin terms, the "focal bias" being evaluated at one distance but in lens adjustment being done for a completely different distance. therefore, instead of proper adjustment of the "AF curve", we get a distorted one at infinity. makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jun 14, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> BeenThere said:
> 
> 
> > TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> ...



Yes, for this reason, I do my Sigma dock adjustments with my SL1, which doesn't have AFMA, and then I use AFMA on my other bodies to enable all bodies to be adjusted to the same lens. This has worked well for me. With four Sigma lenses and four bodies, I don't have any combinations where there seems to be AF error at a particular focal length. 

It is unfortunate that Sigma, Tamron and Canon have been very opaque in their guidance on AFMA. For instance, the above had to be learned by trial and error. We still don't know what the non-linear relationship is between focal distances and dock adjustment values with Sigma lenses, or whether adjusting one set of values may affect the need to adjust others. The docks are great advantages, but instead of acting as marketing assets, they have been branded as a negative - something that these lenses need that first party lenses do not. I think the third party lens vendors need to become very transparent about what is going on technically - which would then show what you are able to adjust that you cannot do with first party lenses. 

And, finally, I'd like to see Sigma and Tamron save values for adjustments with different bodies within the lens memory. 

-tig


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 14, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > BeenThere said:
> ...



Definitely agree with that last point. That would be a great feature.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 14, 2017)

LesC said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > The next episode in my series on how to do focus calibration is now live. This one deals with using Reikan FoCal to automate the process and also how to use this in conjunction with the Sigma USB dock or the Tamron Tap In Console.
> ...



True, and it typically does very well. On occasion, however, my field results don't match the values that Reikan comes up with. The 35L II was just such a lens. I had almost given up on it, but then did a manual calibration, got a figure I liked, and it has worked great. A +3 vs a +1 value would have been close, but not as accurate as the +1 value.

But I've got years of experience calibrating dozens of lenses. I know what I'm doing. For those less experience FoCal is going to make the experience much easier and in most cases will give the best value.


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## LesC (Jun 14, 2017)

Thanks Dustin


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## Jopa (Jun 15, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> Here, my friend. As you wish  @$9,999.00 surely is a pure bargain.
> 
> https://www.camerasdirect.com.au/sigma-24-70mm-f-2-8-art-lens-for-nikon
> 
> ...



LOL! But that's not blind, since you still can see the price. It's just a crazy price. A blind preorder would mean you commit to buy for whatever it takes. Not necessary expensive and overpriced though. Just like a blind trust in the Sigma brand. That's a joke of course  Or maybe not, lots Sony fans would probably do it


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## SecureGSM (Jun 15, 2017)

Would this qualify for an absolute blind purchase? You pay $300 as deposit for the lens and price still to be advised. It could be anything in the end. only in Australia 

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod15453.htm





Jopa said:


> LOL! But that's not blind, since you still can see the price. It's just a crazy price. A blind preorder would mean you commit to buy for whatever it takes. Not necessary expensive and overpriced though. Just like a blind trust in the Sigma brand. That's a joke of course  Or maybe not, lots Sony fans would probably do it


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## LesC (Jul 12, 2017)

WEX in the UK have it in stock now at £1399. DP Review have some sample images too: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art?ref_=pe_1822230_245957160_dpr_nl_268_12


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## Jopa (Jul 13, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> Would this qualify for an absolute blind purchase? You pay $300 as deposit for the lens and price still to be advised. It could be anything in the end. only in Australia
> 
> http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod15453.htm
> 
> ...



Well, it seems like my joke is not a joke anymore...


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## SecureGSM (Jul 13, 2017)

https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art

after close examination of these images, I am not worried about this lens anymore. lots of chromatic aberations all the way up to F11. mediocre sharpness. not my cup of tea...


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## Jopa (Jul 13, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art
> 
> after close examination of these images, I am not worried about this lens anymore. lots of chromatic aberations all the way up to F11. mediocre sharpness. not my cup of tea...





I'm not exactly a 24-70 shooter, but I would like to have a "standard zoom" lens for travelling. Like you know - one lens suits all: portraits & landscapes, nothing outstanding, but usable. I like the Canon 24-70 lens, but no IS is a bummer for me. For portraits it's probably irrelevant, especially in 24-70 focal range, but for everything else I think IS a big plus. I really had high expectations for this Sigma... The new Tamron is the same old one with better coatings (?) and better IS, so I'm not sure if it's a good deal either  What should I do?


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## aceflibble (Jul 14, 2017)

Jopa said:


> What should I do?


Take a look at the Sigma 24-105 f/4 OS. It's a fraction smaller than the Canon 24-105 mkII (though it does take a larger filter) and it's optically a little better than the Canon. (Though it's so close that nine times out of ten you wouldn't notice the difference.) The OS and AF are identical. You mentioned portraits — that 105mm end will do you much better for portraits than the 70mm of the 24-70s would. f/2.8 to f/4 is of little consequence with a 35mm sensor body; if you use an APS-C body then it's a more significant difference, though I still wouldn't worry about it too much. (And for that I'd go for the Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4 which for Canon APS-C is 28-112mm.) People go nuts about aperture with portraiture but given the choice I'd always go for longer focal length over a stop, and the difference between 70mm and 105mm will give you roughly the same subject separation anyway but with a nicer perspective and compression. 

Then for landscape you've still got the 24mm end for your common landscape wide shot, and the extra reach can also be nice for isolating a particular detail.

To me, 24-70mm f/2.8 makes total sense as a studio or professional event coverage kit where you'll likely have a 70-200mm alongside on another body, giving you a full 24-200 range. But for an all-round/travel lens, those 24-70 f/2.8s are a chunky piece of kit and by themselves don't cover enough range, I find. The extra reach of a 24-105 (and the _slightly_ lower weight) really makes them far better for your all-in-one solution. 

Though for the record, when it comes to _travelling_ with any of them, I'd ditch them all entirely and pick up a mirrorless camera with a compact zoom. The EOS M line has a couple of all-rounder zooms, and any of the Fuji bodies with their 'kit' 18-55 (which is as sharp as the canon 24-70 and has IS, albeit a stop slower at the longest end) is kind of the most perfect travel camera you can buy. Or for SLR there's the Canon SL1 (soon SL2) which you could pair with the aforementioned Sigma 17-70 to get effectively 28-112mm at a weight the same as _just_ one of the 24-70 or 24-105 lenses. It's much, much nicer to travel with a small APS-C body and a more compact zoom made for APS-C cameras than it is to do the same with a full-size SLR and 'standard' 24-70 or 24-105 zoom. Plus depending on the kinds of places you travel to, it can make a lot of financial sense to take a smaller APS-C kit than a 35mm one; if it gets lost, damaged, or stolen, it's nowhere near as big a problem.


There's no real one answer for an all-in-one lens because everybody is willing to put up with a little more/a little less bulk or range than others will accept, but for what it's worth if you look around you'll find way more people using 24-105s or mirrorless systems for travel/all-rounders, and the 24-70s are more typically reserved for actual work. Not _always_, but commonly.


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## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2017)

Oleg,
I will send you a message later on and let's see what we can come up with. 24-105 would not be the lens of my choice as knowing fully well your shooting style and your attention to details ( read: second rate solution is not an option), I am ready to bet my house that you won't be satisfied with the outcomes in 70-105mm range, thats x4.5 zoom factor of the lens for you. F4 is also could be potentially limiting for you at times. 

p.s. I cannot resist the urge  the following photos are taken at ISO 6400 and F2.8. should I use F4 lens at the time, My ISO will be in 12800 territory which is way too much for the resulting image for me to be satisfactory.
But once again, we wil figure it out.






Jopa said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art
> ...


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## Jopa (Jul 14, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> Take a look at the Sigma 24-105 f/4 OS.



Thank you for the reply. I have the Canon's 24-105 3.5-5.6. Got it primarily for video because of STM + IS. I think that's the only FF Canon lens that offers both in one package. I don't use it for stills since it doesn't provide much DoF control at all, and I'm afraid any 24-105 F4 lens won't do it neither. While traveling, the lighting conditions are not always ideal, and I would prefer to keep my ISO as low as I can, and one stop quite often makes a difference, like for example 6400 vs 12800. I'm fine with large and heavy, as long as the lens is under 2 kg / 4.5 lbs - I can live with it  I do understand that's 105 is better than 70 for portraits, but I won't be taking head shots with it. It's more for like a person/environment photo, where some compression/tighter persective is welcome, but it doesn't require to be a dedicated portrait lens like a 85 1.4 or 70-200 2.8.



SecureGSM said:


> Oleg,
> I will send you a message later on and let's see what we can come up with. 24-105 would not be the lens of my choice as knowing fully well your shooting style and your attention to details ( read: second rate solution is not an option), I am ready to bet my house that you won't be satisfied with the outcomes in 70-105mm range, thats x4.5 zoom factor of the lens for you. F4 is also could be potentially limiting for you at times.
> 
> p.s. I cannot resist the urge  the following photos are taken at ISO 6400 and F2.8. should I use F4 lens at the time, My ISO will be in 12800 territory which is way too much for the resulting image for me to be satisfactory.
> But once again, we wil figure it out.



Thank you Alex  Great pictures as usually! I think I'm completely with you here. My 5DsR's native ISO is 6400, 12800 would be something programmatically boosted and require very heavy noise reduction, so yes - 1 stop makes a big difference. For now my "to-go" lens is the 35/1.4, and while it's very versatile in terms of optical speed / DoF, it's quite limited in terms of perspective. Going F4 means 3 stops above 1.4. F2.8 is just 2 which I think I can survive. Too bad Sigma doesn't want to make an F2 "standard" zoom which could be just what the doctor ordered 

Are you thinking about trying/renting the new Sigma or the new Tamron? I'm still concerned about AF. I know Tamron offers a decent one, plus I've heard their new version is supposed to have even more AF improvements.

This pic was taken @ F/1.4 ISO 2000 1/80s, so it'll be ISO 8000 F/2.8 1/80 or ISO 6400 F/2.8 1/60 (which is on the edge already). F4 @ 1/80s makes it ISO 16000 which my poor camera can't even handle


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## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2017)

Jopa, sent you a message. yes, I believe that new Tamron 24 70 F2.8 VC G2 may end up being a very strong offering. I explained in details why I see this being a real possibility.


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 14, 2017)

LesC said:


> WEX in the UK have it in stock now at £1399. DP Review have some sample images too: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art?ref_=pe_1822230_245957160_dpr_nl_268_12



Whilst the EF 24-70mm f2.8L II USM doesn't have IS its only £ 100 more on Amazon UK and having used it many times one of Canon best zooms optically. The EF 24-70mm f4L IS USM is weak at 50mm but fine at 24mm and 70mm ends. 
If I was spending £ 1399 for the Sigma I would seriously consider the EF 24-70mm f2.8L II USM.


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## Jopa (Jul 14, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> LesC said:
> 
> 
> > WEX in the UK have it in stock now at £1399. DP Review have some sample images too: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art?ref_=pe_1822230_245957160_dpr_nl_268_12
> ...



Interesting... $1750 vs $1300 in the US. $450 difference. I'm cool if they add IS to the Canon and charge $250 more 

While I was looking at the current price @ B&H, someone posted a negative review complaining about AF:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1321309-REG/sigma_24_70mm_f_2_8_dg_os.html (see reviews)


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