# Are you really serious about 6D?



## poias (Dec 13, 2012)

Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras.



I'm sure they'll be crying all the way to the bank, as 60D and Rebel shooters, attracted by the allure of FF and by the 'affordable' price, coupled with consumer-oriented features like GPS, WiFi, and an SD card slot, buy up 6D's left and right.


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## poias (Dec 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> poias said:
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> > Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras.
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Bravo, Canon stockholder! As for those Canon shooters who are stuck with inferior sensors.... good luck, buddy.


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## jfretless (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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## Hobby Shooter (Dec 13, 2012)

jfretless said:


> poias said:
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Well said! In the case of the sensor, I haven't even held the 6D in my hands, but from reading here I understand that the sensor will be slightly better than the one in the 5D2 + other cool features that Neuro describes and the better AF. Not bad if you ask me.


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## x-vision (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D?



People are finally able to afford the Holy Grail - a full frame DSLR. 
They are in awe and even 6D's single-point AF system (effectively) is holy.
It's a blasphemy to speak against it.
8)


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## Artifex (Dec 13, 2012)

I have some difficulty understanding your point with this. If you are satisfy with the 5D Mk II, I don't see why you would buy a new camera anyway; lenses seem like a best investment in my opinion. It seems the 6D is aimed mostly for people who wants to move from crop sensor to FF but are on a budget, just like myself. I personally shoot in manual focus about 99,9999% of the time, so the number of cross type focus point for the AF passes well above my head. The fact is that in term of image quality, both 5D Mk II, Mk III and 6D are pretty similar because it is the lens that matters most. I can see much how the 6D is so pathetic; yes it is less robust, as a less effective AF, etc. The 5D Mk III is there for a reason. However, I rather save the few hundreds bucks and get myself lenses (or food). Also, the 6D as a 97% VF, the 5D Mk II as a 98% VF... I am not sure how the 1% lost is going to affect you, but for myself, I guess I could live with it, especially since the 6D as better ISO performance. The Wifi and GPS don't interest me all that much; however, the great thing is that they can be turn off if you don't want them (although the Wifi can be really nice for studio work and maybe with future update, be used as intervalometer). Lastly, I most say I am disappointed to see so much people bashing and fighting about sensor and camera, I feel like I am in high school again, with people insulting each other because they don't like the same things. In a forum about photography, I though people would speak more about the actual art, and not about what piece of gear sucks. The tools we use are not that important; I should say barely important. If the camera becomes more important that person holding it, we are not photograph anymore, but just image takers.


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## ChilledXpress (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.



You mad bro?

I'm sure they are quaking in their boots. Whaaa whaaa whaaaaaa !!! Wait for it... Shimomaruko 3-Chome just went black from Poias's 2 cent withdrawl. Like fanatic sports fans beating up each other... I will never understand how an inatimate objects or the likes, causes peoples brain cells to atrophy. 

*Megalomania* - a psychopathological disorder characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, or omnipotence. Its characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs'.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> As for those Canon shooters who are stuck with inferior sensors.... good luck, buddy.



Yep, most of Reuters, the official White House photographer, and the general public in numbers far greater than any other dSLR manufacturer. Poor bastards. 



Artifex said:


> I have some difficulty understanding your point with this.



It's pretty clear this is your basic trolling post, and a rather unimaginative one, at that.


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## bdunbar79 (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.



Nothing better to do, eh?


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## HawkeyeOC (Dec 13, 2012)

x-vision said:


> poias said:
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> > Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D?
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Describes me perfectly. Every day since I have had the 6D, I have been in awe ;D


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## verysimplejason (Dec 13, 2012)

If you're using 5D2, I can't see you upgrading to 6D. However for a rebel user, a 6D is very appealing. WTH, some of these shots were taken with Nikon D200. For me, brand doesn't matter. Even your camera body doesn't matter that much. Lens does matter more than the camera body. But in the end, the one who takes matters most. Enough of gear whining. 

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/pipoujid/popular-interesting/


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## candyman (Dec 13, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


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> http://www.flickriver.com/photos/pipoujid/popular-interesting/




Great portfolio with stunning photos. I like them


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## azezal (Dec 13, 2012)

As far as I get it,the 6d may be good in one area

It might replace the 60d 'a' as the lightpainters' ultimate camera

:-\


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## robbinzo (Dec 13, 2012)

The 6D is an upgade for the 60D. The 5D mark III is an upgrade for the 5D mark II. If you want to upgrade your mark II buy a mark III.

The 6D is not aimed at Pros. It is an upgrade for Rebel owners, although the autofocus system for the 6D is puzzling because the 650D has 9 cross type AF points. The one cross type point in the centre is good and probably simplifies focusing for amateurs anyway. You pays your money you makes your choice.

Personally I would have liked a pop up flash on the 6D like the 60D with it's integrated speedlite transmitter. The 6D would have won out over the 5D III with a few tweaks but I'm now waiting for 5D III prices to come down next year before I go for it.


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## nicku (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.



+1

But i will switch to Nikon. Where i live the difference between Nikon D800 and 6D is around $500, the Nikon D600 is cheaper than 6D.


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## Harv (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.




I suspect the troll filter has malfunctioned. We should really get that thing repaired before more trolls slip through.


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## Gothmoth (Dec 13, 2012)

it´s simple.. maybe not so simple because some don´t get it.

the 6D is not meant as a primary upgrade path for 5D MK2 owners.

it´s for people who want to step into FF territory.

as a 5D MK2 owner you upgrade would be.. suprise suprise.. the 5D MK3.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 13, 2012)

nicku said:


> poias said:
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> > Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.
> ...



All the best with your switch. In some countries, 6D is more expensive while in others just like ours, it's cheaper. Just remember that you also need to switch lenses. It should also be expensive to switch unless you're still not yet invested in Canon lenses.


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## Gothmoth (Dec 13, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> nicku said:
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as long as he is gone from this forum.... im fine with that.

the 5D MK3 is chosen camera of the year by so many magazines and tech institutions... and for a good reason.
and no hyper sensor would help that kid to make better pictures... :


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## Marine03 (Dec 13, 2012)

The OP sounded like a big cry baby like many one these forms. Sure we all want super camera's that are better than anything else out there. But as an enthusiast stuck with a 450 D for the past 4 years upgrading is finely insight and even if its based on 4 year old technology I can't tell you how many times when I see a great photo taken online part of the data given was that a 5D2 took the picture, so if I can afford maybe early next year to get on something that is an upgrade even if small is HUGE. 

Call me a fool for liking the wifi shooting, it totally beats having to run back and forth to a tripod when setting up family pictures because someone might have gotten cut off, when I can see the results before I press the button. 

Plus these camera's still can capture images out of the box pre PP that no one probably even considered 10 years ago.


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## nicku (Dec 13, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


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Why so many people are indoctrinated (including you).... and under no reason can't admit that Canon is no longer No.1 in DSLR industry ( with the exception of flagship 1DX that is still unbeatable) ???

look at Nikon (Sony origin) sensors.... better resolution, way better DR and colors... yes beyond ISO 6400 -12800 Canon is better at High ISO. 


D600 vs 6D... Nikon is wiping the floor with Canon ( with only one exception ISO performance beyond 12800)...but how many of us are shooting beyond that value ...10% and that occasionally ???

I an a professional photographer and is more easy to admit and buy/use what is best for my business, than other that are not thinking outside the box.

.....and yes the resolution of the image and quality is essential for my business; today only Nikon and MF cameras ( witch in don't afford yet ) can meet my demands.

That does not mean giving up totally on Canon, selling everything and delete my account from this forum; I still have many EF lenses and I will use in the future canon cameras ... but for my main business photography i will start to use Nikon.

Who knows... if Canon is delivering a better low noise sensor with the 7Dmk2 i will buy one as a fast walk around/sports camera.

Of course this situation can be reversed with the introduction of the rumored 46MP monster as a affordable 5D type body(3-4 k$ ), not a 1D style and many thousands of $$$

Nik.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

nicku said:


> Why so many people are indoctrinated (including you).... and under no reason can't admit that Canon is no longer No.1 in DSLR industry...???
> 
> look at Nikon (Sony origin) sensors.... better resolution, way better DR and colors... yes beyond ISO 6400 -12800 Canon is better at High ISO.



Why do so many people fail to understand that the sensor isn't the only part of the camera? It's an important part, but no one buys a naked sensor to take pictures, they buy a camera. Despite your opinion of who is 'No.1 in the dSLR industry' the absolute fact is that Canon sells more dSLRs than Nikon, Sony, or anyone else. That's what #1 means, in the real world. Someone may think Ferrari makes the best cars, but saying they're #1 in the auto industry makes that person sound foolish.


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## nicku (Dec 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> nicku said:
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> > Why so many people are indoctrinated (including you).... and under no reason can't admit that Canon is no longer No.1 in DSLR industry...???
> ...



And than the Marketing and Publicity was invented 

yes, you are right Canon ''still'' sells more, but that doesn't mean is better.

I give you an example :

Take 2 different bottled water brands .... no. 1 is tasty and more qualitative than no. 2. Make 5 times more advertisement to no. 2 and in one year the sales/revenue will be way over no. 1 . In two years the price of the worst one will be higher than the more qualitative one.......


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## Dylan777 (Dec 13, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.



I'm not a big fan of 6D yet, but I do think this is a good entry level FF for people want to jump from crop to FF at lower budget. There is nothing wrong to have better ISO and cleaner images in photography. WiFi, GPS and other additional features are extra benefits. You can always shut it off if you have no need for it. I would take 6D over 5D II for one reason, true AUTO ISO in "M" mode  5D II has fixed AUTO ISO @ 400 in "M" mode


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## sanj (Dec 13, 2012)

candyman said:


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Me too..!


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## leolol (Dec 13, 2012)

You gotta understand, everybody who hates on the 6d here is automatically a troll. Especially if you say that the d800 is only 200€ more expenisve.


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## zim (Dec 13, 2012)

nicku said:


> Take 2 different bottled water brands .... no. 1 is tasty and more qualitative than no. 2. Make 5 times more advertisement to no. 2 and in one year the sales/revenue will be way over no. 1 . In two years the price of the worst one will be higher than the more qualitative one.......



;D ;D ;D
Can we have a funniest analogy of the year competition please?


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 13, 2012)

candyman said:


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I agree, very neat shots, cool, fun. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you own a macro lens and somehow got attached to it! ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

nicku said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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You didn't say, "Canon no longer makes the best dSLRs in the industry." Even if you had, You have no evidence to support that claim. If you had said, "Canon dSLRs do not use the best _CMOS sensors_ in the industry, I'd accept that as truth. But your claim that Canon is 'no longer No.1 in the dSLR industry' is simply untrue.


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## tomscott (Dec 13, 2012)

Hate to admit it, but I agree.

The 6D could have been so much better and appealed to a much larger audience without the cost being too much more and without compromising on the 5D, with a real hybrid between a XXXD, XXD & 7D with a full frame sensor

If you are looking for a longer term investment a 6D just isnt one to get in my mind.

I didnt expect the 6D to have poor IQ, and it has proven itself, it appears to be fantastic. But if you are an amateur used to the 9 point system the 11 point isnt a massive upgrade apart from one point, even the 650Ds are all cross point, but it will feel similar... not sure i like the idea of that price and the camera AF feeling similar. But I wouldn't buy a 2k camera that really doesn't improve much apart from IQ it needs to be across the board, a camera consists of more than just a good sensor. IQ means nothing if only one point is worth using. 

What happens if you want some nice primes like a 50mm 1.2? taking full advantage of that IQ? focusing with the single point and recomposing at this fine DOF will return poor focus and as the other 10 are pretty much useless.... makes the IQ worthless, unless you plan on manual focusing most of the time. How often is your subject bang in the centre?

It has a few cool quirks with the Wi-fi & GPS. But really if everyone were to be honest it could have been better, it has clearly been detuned so not so step on the toes of the 5D MKIII but people who buy that camera are in a different market in my opinion. The D600 although also having its quirks, is a better option if your an amateur without too much invested.

I make money with my camera and buy what i need. If i was an amateur then I would feel even worse! It is an improvement over the 5D MKII but not 4 years worth of improvement. With the 5D MKIII not much more it doesn't make any sense in my mind to buy a 6D. £2k for a 5D MKIII or £1600 for the 6D? I bought a 5D.


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## Trovador (Dec 13, 2012)

I like the 6D. I'm keeping my 7D for anything that requires telephoto or fast moving subjects so that's covered.

Sure, the Nikons have better specs on paper but I doubt it will translate to better pictures for most of us, and that's what matters most. To me the current Nikons and Canons are the best cameras ever made, so putting one down because the other has this or that is trivial, even more so considering that the camera is only part of a system.


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## tomscott (Dec 13, 2012)

You would be better off keeping the money for the 6D and selling the 7D and buying a 5DMKIII best of both worlds


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## pdirestajr (Dec 13, 2012)

Wait, so Canon makes different cameras and products at different price-points for different markets?!

What are they thinking????


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 13, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Hate to admit it, but I agree.
> 
> The 6D could have been so much better and appealed to a much larger audience without the cost being too much more and without compromising on the 5D, with a real hybrid between a XXXD, XXD & 7D with a full frame sensor
> 
> ...



I disagree on a few levels. Looking at al lthe bells and whistles on the mk3, and seeing the reaction to the price (many saying it should be $2500), where does that leave any room for improving the 6d? 

Center point only, yeah it seems like a step back, but, looking at all the amazing images the 5d2 has cranked out over the lifetime of the cam center point may do just fine! Many claimed the 5d2 was only really usable to ISO 3200, and would push it to 6400 in a pinch if it was the only way to get the shot. It seems that the 6d is following the 5d3 in ISO, so ISO 6400 -12800 being usable is a huge upgrade!

Different strokes I guess, also, everyone looking at these bodies has their own needs to fill. For me, I have a mk3 so this would be a backup body. Yeah, the price difference isn't that huge (in the sticker at least, it's closer to $1200 difference after tax though). To me, that is the cost of a 135 f2L. If your on a mk2 looking to upgrade though, then yeah the 6d may not be as big of a leap as you want. But if your on a 60D, then just the FF sensor alone is reason to buy! Different strokes!


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## EdB (Dec 13, 2012)

My first Canon camera was an AE-1 back in the 70s and I moved to an F1 after that. Back then I would say Canon and Nikon were on equal ground even though the vast majority of pros shot Nikon. Then EOS came and the pros bailed on Nikon because of the AF and IS in the glass. 

Today no one can deny that the sensors Nikon uses are far better in terms of detail and DR. If Canon continues to put out sub par sensors the pros will go back to Nikon. Canon is lagging behind and they need to get back in the game on sensor tech.
I was considering a 6D but the difference in the sensors between the 6D and D600 are just so far apart its hard to justify getting a 6D.

Having the best glass in the world doesnt make much difference if the sensor can't record the capability of the lens. Back in the film days you had a choice of what film to use with your glass. Now you don't have a choice in the sensor you can put in your camera and that sensor is just as important as the glass in front of it.

I won't bail on Canon but I am disappointed in Canon's sensors right now and I just may have to wait longer for better sensors.


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## pdirestajr (Dec 13, 2012)

The grass is always greener.

Go take a look at the Nikon forums... Um, how's that superior sensor with dust and oil splatters? Or the laundry list of other issues like green color shifts, left-side focus point issues, blah, blah, blah...

I'm not a Canon "fanboy", I just happen to like how Canon cameras feel and function in my hand. I picked up a D800 the other day to see how it felt. I didn't like anything about it. It's sensor may be able to capture angels with it's magical powers, but that isn't the whole story.

I really don't understand how there are so many threads that are just all about spec sheets and test charts. There is so much more.

These are cameras, not a religion.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 13, 2012)

sanj said:


> candyman said:
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It's not mine but I truly like it and aspire to get my photo's level to that level.


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## skitron (Dec 13, 2012)

tomscott said:


> What happens if you want some nice primes like a 50mm 1.2? taking full advantage of that IQ? focusing with the single point and recomposing at this fine DOF will return poor focus and as the other 10 are pretty much useless.... makes the IQ worthless, unless you plan on manual focusing most of the time. How often is your subject bang in the centre?



Coming from someone who sent a 6D back and bought a 5D3 instead, I found the AF on the 6D to be decent. The center point is very good, the outer points quite usable in decent light. I tested the outers quite a bit before I sent it back due to IQ issues. Apparently mine was a dud because I'm net seeing similar IQ issues in other 6D shots. But the AF was fine...even in servo...big step forward from 5D2 imo. Sure it looks like poo on paper, but in practice the AF worked pretty good imo.


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## tomscott (Dec 13, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> tomscott said:
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Granted the 5D MKIII at release was insane at £3500 but you can get body only for £1990 now, with the 6D at £1600. 

Most pros hated the AF of the 5D MKII, but you have to remember it was revolutionary and it will be forever held in that sense, the AF was flawed then, but it was a great camera so most put up with it. The difference is that was 4 years ago!!!! 4 Years later and we have 2 points more and ONE cross type thats sensitive! Right in the middle! So what about composition? Or do you put everything in the middle? and when using fast glass youll be fine to see your focus and recompose is now not in focus? Because thats all you can do the rest arent worth talking about.

Then you have the 5D MKIII with 61 AF points 50 more... huge gap! or the 7D AF system in the middle with 19. If they had remade the 7D AF system for the FF 6D and spread them out, unlike the D600. This would have flown off the shelves, would have made the camera from a meh camera to a wow camera. Really worth it for up graders, just because people are amateurs does that mean they have to have the worst AF? Especially when there are other AF systems in the parts bin. Its just lazy, but im sure Canon wont loose anything but my money didnt go to one.

Whether all those pictures you quote actually came from the AF system or were manual focused you cant tell.

Like I said IQ isn't the problem. But its a flawed combination of great IQ and awful AF especially when you need the best L glass to resolve the sensor. Completely baffling! Suppose its just a shame really! 

Not sure what Canon are doing they are too bothered about protecting their markets than embracing new ones... like the EOS M, could have been much better but they are protecting the XXXD market.


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## RLPhoto (Dec 13, 2012)

Not Remotely interested in a repackaged 5D2, which was a repackaged 20D with a FF sensor.


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## sandymandy (Dec 13, 2012)

6D is good if its the best you can afford. Not everybody can spend the cash for 5d mk3 or 1dX. Plus its also hard to tell people "then just save another year for the mk3" or such...Heck im still using my 1100D (using all focus points :O ) and my only concern is to get better lenses.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

tomscott said:


> If they had remade the 7D AF system for the FF 6D and spread them out, unlike the D600. *This would have flown off the shelves*, would have made the camera from a meh camera to a wow camera.



Ahhh, so it's _not_ flying off the shelves? And you know this how? Because you haven't bought one, yourself? :


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## x-vision (Dec 13, 2012)

tomscott said:


> But I wouldn't buy a 2k camera that really doesn't improve much apart from IQ it needs to be across the board, a camera consists of more than just a good sensor.



+1000

Some might consider the 6D to be an entry-level _FF_ camera but it's not an entry-level camera overall. 
As you said, when upgrading to the 6D, one would expect upgrades across the board, not just the sensor. 

The 650D, which sells for $599 in the US right now, has an AF system with 9 cross points with a double-cross point in the center. 
The 6D cannot even match that - let alone provide an upgrade.
And that's despite the 4x price difference.


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## tomscott (Dec 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> tomscott said:
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> > If they had remade the 7D AF system for the FF 6D and spread them out, unlike the D600. *This would have flown off the shelves*, would have made the camera from a meh camera to a wow camera.
> ...



I didn't say that Neuro I was speculating that it would have sold better. As I said early in the post it wont affect Canon, and even you will admit it could have been better.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

x-vision said:


> Some might consider the 6D to be an entry-level _FF_ camera but it's not an entry-level camera overall.
> As you said, when upgrading to the 6D, one would expect upgrades across the board, not just the sensor.



I think that Canon considers the 6D to be an _entry level FF camera_, and the target 'upgrader' market are 60D and Rebel/xxxD users.


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## eyeland (Dec 13, 2012)

skitron said:


> tomscott said:
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> > What happens if you want some nice primes like a 50mm 1.2? taking full advantage of that IQ? focusing with the single point and recomposing at this fine DOF will return poor focus and as the other 10 are pretty much useless.... makes the IQ worthless, unless you plan on manual focusing most of the time. How often is your subject bang in the centre?
> ...


I am very interested in hearing more about peoples real world experiences with the AF system on 6D.
I used to develop b/w film from my nikon F50 myself and I was very happy with my 350D for years.
I lost my 60D due to unfortunate circumstances, and now, as I am facing the option of actually getting paid for my work, I need much more than I get from the Olympus e520 (got it for free JUST as my 60D was lost - karma is wierd (I am sorry about the long rant but what can you do, it's my internet as well )

I was very happy with the 60D in general, but using it alot with 50 1.4, I realized a few things I need for my work which consists of video as well as stills (events, concerts, artistic music videos, timelapse, stopmotion etc.)
(i) Better high ISO performance (especially for video)
(ii) Image stabilized zoom lens (for video) (best options seem to be 17-55 on crop, 24-105 on ff)
(iii) Better low light focus (ok if this is only on center point as it is for critical use only)
(iv) Durability (peace of mind really)

For a while I almost ahd myself convinced that a switch back to Nikon would be the thing for me - first with the release of the D800 and then again with the D600... until I held them in my hand and realized how much I like having Magic Lantern for video use (and alot of other minor differences) I am sure that for some people Nikon is the best but alas, I REALLY prefer almost every aspect of the Canons that I have tried. I am not a canon fanboy and I was really dissapointed by this as I have been looking for somethign cheaper than 5Dmk3 that still fulfills my needs but I digress.. now back to the specs 

To get better high ISO performance (i), I am assuming that the 6D would be a huge upgrade over the 60D (and 7D), and on par with the 5Dmk3? (I would love the improoved video on the mk3 like clean HDMI, but I have to start at a lower price point). Also, I am wondering about moire and jello on the 6D vs 60D;5D2;5D3.

For IS (ii), it would seem that the AF-S 17-55 is really nice, but once one enters that price level, it surely would be nice with the durability and safer re-sale value of an "L" (not to mention bragging rights
The only Zoomrange with IS that suits me atm in L-glass seems to entail F4 which again points to FF for DoF and light gathering (F4 on crop is too big of a limitation for me)

The first 2 points easily points to canons FF line-up, and for me, the choice would have been alot more simple if I didn't have the nagging fear, that the 6D would be a downgrade in terms of AF (on some areas)
The Lowlight AF on the center (iii) sounds VERY nice as well as the tracking experience mentioned above, but I am still to find any solid information regarding general AF performance of non-center points as well as AF performance in general.
Come to think of it, I should have saved my time on this rant and started out by asking if anyone can point me towards an indepth review/user experience of the 6D?
Surely, there must be something?


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## dpollitt (Dec 13, 2012)

Lots of speculation from people here who don't own the camera, have not used it, and think they have it all figured out. I've owned it for a bit over a week now. Not a huge amount of experience on it, but a week and a half more then most people here it sounds like. 

I am very happy with the 6D. I come from a Canon 40D which I was also very happy with. I greatly enjoy the high ISO performance, additional creative DoF options, larger viewfinder, higher resolution screen, iOS app, GPS, video capabilities, and even the fantastic 24-105mm kit lens. I wasn't crying before about the 9 cross type AF points on my 40D, and moving to a single cross type with 11 total points on the 6D hasn't caused me any issues. I don't shoot birds in flight. I shoot landscape, travel, family indoor, portraits, etc. I'm not making money off of my equipment, I am making memories and capturing my life.

I am not coming from a 5D mkII, 1D X, etc. I also am not coming from a crippled Rebel T123xyz, but rather what I consider to be the precursor to the 7D line(40D and prior). I do think that this original post is simply trolling, but I also wanted to at least provide my opinion that the 6D is not a "joke" of a camera. It is very competent and especially for the asking price it is capable of producing great images in many conditions. I personally do not need the level of AF provided in the 5D MkIII, I also do not need dual memory card slots. If I was shooting weddings professionally, it would be an easy decision. This camera is not aimed at the professional that is using the camera every day to make a living. I could have bought a 5D MkIII, I have the money but simply do not need the additional features. I am very happy with the upgrade path from a 40D to a 6D, it offers me much more flexible ISO performance, among other key items which I find very useful.

Too many people are quick to think that integrated GPS and Wi-Fi are "fluff" features or gimmicks. They simply are not. For landscape photography having integrated GPS is a fantastic and welcomed feature. Wi-Fi and the available app for smartphones really opens up the possibilities of remote shooting, allowing comfortable macro work without an articulating screen, family photos without the need for an additional remote accessory, and easy access to photos when on the go. I personally enjoy sharing my photos while traveling with family and not having to carry around an additional dongle for my tablet to download images is a great benefit.

So now you have some thoughts from someone who actually owns this camera, and is in what I would consider one of the many target markets for this unit. If you want to troll some more, I would suggest either buying the 5D MkIII, or going to a Nikon forum to find some willing shoulders to cry on.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2012)

dpollitt said:


> So now you have some thoughts from someone *who actually owns this camera*



And why would that matter? (to a troll, that is : )

Thanks for an _informed_ opinion!


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## Beautor (Dec 13, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> dpollitt said:
> 
> 
> > So now you have some thoughts from someone *who actually owns this camera*
> ...



+1 on thanks for an informed opinion. My wife and I currently use a 60D and a 40D, and for us the 6D seems to be the most reasonable upgrade path. I have not used it yet (going to the camera shop today!) but as casual photographers the 6D seems a much more reasonable option than the 5Diii. If I had a wallet full of big bills I most definitely would go with a 5Diii, but since I don't the 6D looks like a great upgrade for the landscape and portrait type photography we do. The slightly smaller size is also appealing to my wife, who is 5'2" and has very small hands.


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## tomscott (Dec 13, 2012)

My upgrade path was 350D - 40D - 7D - 5D MKIII

Now I was happy with the 9 point AF 5-6 years ago I managed to really get it working well for me, but I hit its limitation really quite quickly, but then I got the 7D and at first was blown away by the amount of points and to start with it was a challenge because it was so different. Then I really got used to it! I still have my 40D and going back to that is really painful in comparison. Now I bought the 5D MKIII after nearly a year of umming and arring and waiting for a good price point it is even better the level of precision and general functionality of the AF its brilliant. 

I suppose what I am saying is that Canon has moved on in AF but not implementing it as much as it could. This is an entry FF camera but for someone upgrading from an XXD or an XXXD between £500-800 to £1600 I would expect a better system. Twice the price for better IQ? The rest of the camera has to follow suit, not to the point of the pro cameras somewhere in-between.

Once you use the better systems it really does feel like a massive backward step with the others. I have used a 6D and found it quite snappy, but its the points there spread out and there arent many... so makes composition more difficult.

I dont think the 6D is a bad camera by any margin... It just think it could and should have been better, with a better AF it would have had awesome reviews and I think more people would be willing to suck up the extra £1000 for it.


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## Dylan777 (Dec 13, 2012)

Beautor said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dpollitt said:
> ...



It will be a perfect match  IQ is great under low light. 

Something to look for at store:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11583.0


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## Chosenbydestiny (Dec 13, 2012)

I wish I could shut off Nikon's ergonomics, button layout, green cast on the screen, etc etc. Nikon might just be #1 in the world for people with 4 fingers, shoot without the screen, and don't care about losing a shot in a high pressure situation because switching modes and going through menus on a Nikon is horrendous compared to a Canon. No offense to them, of course. By all means, do what you need to do. When you're a pro you do what it takes to get the job done whether your specialty and style of work needs a superior sensor, better af, or a better button layout that helps you get your job done faster. That's all that really matters. A client hires you because you're supposed to know better and deliver to best their standards, not yours. If you really love Nikon that much, it's just plain common sense to get the hell out of this Canon forum.


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## JamesARidley (Dec 13, 2012)

I personally do not understand all the hate against the 6D. I was skeptical of it when it was first announced, I am not a big fan of the set up of the 60D. We have the 6D in the store I work at, and it functions great. Sample images look very very good, and while it is slower than the 5D III (duh) the camera itself is plenty fast enough. The build feels great, and while the sacrifice of the joystick is annoying, the function is still present in the slightly less ergonomic set button location. In the joysticks place are several buttons that used to be on the left side, I am ok with that. It is a very good camera for a decent price.


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## skitron (Dec 13, 2012)

eyeland said:


> To get better high ISO performance (i), I am assuming that the 6D would be a huge upgrade over the 60D (and 7D), and on par with the 5Dmk3? (I would love the improoved video on the mk3 like clean HDMI, but I have to start at a lower price point). Also, I am wondering about moire and jello on the 6D vs 60D;5D2;5D3.



ISO on 6D is second only to 1DX and 5D3 right behind 6D. And again, the AF on 6D is a big step forward from 5D2 (I had one for a year) imo and sorry to the 6D AF nay-sayers, I'd take the 6D system over the 50D system (had a 50D two years) any day. The 6D center point smokes, the outers are quite a bit better then 5D2 and the overall system much faster than either 5D2 or 50D. Accuracy is noticiably improved over 50D for both inner and outer imo. And 6D AI Servo kept up with my kid on a scooter no problem, something the 5D2 and 50D couldn't do.

The biggest downside to the outer points (other than less sensitive to light) is that they are not cross type. In practice I found them to work well as long as the subject had some detail to it. It struggled with focusing on a sheetrock wall with the outers, but fabrics were no problem at all. Reasonably fast in adequate light and pretty accurate imo.

Video is virtually identical to 5D2 except a tiny bit *more* moire. But unless you're planning on doing video that will get peer reviewed from a technical perspective it's fine imo, and you'll get virtually the same as 5D2 except ISO is improved and 6D will do all i-frame, and despite its known problems, is pretty darn good if all your doing is preserving your own memories. Jello is same on all Canon DSLRs for all practical purposes.

JMO, YMMV, only tested one copy, yadda, yadda...

My "path" is 50D (sold) to 5D2 (sold) to 6D (returned) to 5D3


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## zim (Dec 13, 2012)

dpollitt said:


> Lots of speculation from people here who don't own the camera, have not used it, and think they have it all figured out. I've owned it for a bit over a week now. Not a huge amount of experience on it, but a week and a half more then most people here it sounds like.
> 
> I am very happy with the 6D. I come from a Canon 40D which I was also very happy with. I greatly enjoy the high ISO performance, additional creative DoF options, larger viewfinder, higher resolution screen, iOS app, GPS, video capabilities, and even the fantastic 24-105mm kit lens. I wasn't crying before about the 9 cross type AF points on my 40D, and moving to a single cross type with 11 total points on the 6D hasn't caused me any issues. I don't shoot birds in flight. I shoot landscape, travel, family indoor, portraits, etc. I'm not making money off of my equipment, I am making memories and capturing my life.
> 
> ...




Wouldn't have said _'informed'_ would have said *informed*
+1 well said sir


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## sandymandy (Dec 13, 2012)

6D is targeted to people with older rebel models or lower. If you just bought a 650D or 600D i dont think ur suddenly gonna buy a 6D. I think people who still use like...450D and were already aware of the "FF magic" are now finally going to get a camera they like. People with 7D are likely informed advanced users anyway and probably lurking to get a 5D long time already. 

I assume most people who come to these forums are quite educated and experienced about photography so i dont understand all this 6D bashing since the camera is not intended for such users. 6D is for beginners, people who probably never had an L lens before and perhaps never used an external flash with triggers. People who "know what they want" are going for 5D or higher anyway...EXCEPT they cant afford it. Thats also a large group of ppl targeted  
If i gotta save my ass off to buy the 6D im also likely more appreciating my purchase and just feeling lucky i could go FF at all. At least i would be like that. And the 6D is not bad anyway. It performs worse than the 5Dmk3, yes but so does the 5Dmk3 performe worse than the 1DX same way. It doesnt make 5dmk3 a bad camera.



Chosenbydestiny said:


> I wish I could shut off Nikon's ergonomics, button layout, green cast on the screen, etc etc. Nikon might just be #1 in the world for people with 4 fingers, shoot without the screen, and don't care about losing a shot in a high pressure situation because switching modes and going through menus on a Nikon is horrendous compared to a Canon



Lol i always have heard people telling nikon ergonomics and menu functionality is waaay better.


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## sdsr (Dec 13, 2012)

tomscott said:


> The 6D could have been so much better and appealed to a much larger audience without the cost being too much more and without compromising on the 5D, with a real hybrid between a XXXD, XXD & 7D with a full frame sensor
> 
> [....]
> 
> I didnt expect the 6D to have poor IQ, and it has proven itself, it appears to be fantastic. But if you are an amateur used to the 9 point system the 11 point isnt a massive upgrade apart from one point, even the 650Ds are all cross point, but it will feel similar... not sure i like the idea of that price and the camera AF feeling similar. But I wouldn't buy a 2k camera that really doesn't improve much apart from IQ it needs to be across the board, a camera consists of more than just a good sensor. IQ means nothing if only one point is worth using.



If the 6D were "so much better" than it really is, and still significantly cheaper than the 5DIII, why would anyone buy the 5DIII? (Or, put differently, why would Canon have released the 6D at all?) 

As for the comment on IQ, I wouldn't buy another camera unless it did improve IQ; and if the improvement were significant enough, I would buy it for that reason alone. (And as for focus points, I'm one of those odd people who have little interest in anything other than the central focus point, so I don't care how many others there are, but those who have actually used the 6D report that the others work just fine.) 

Low light/high ISO performance matters a good deal to me, so as far as I'm concerned the 6D would be a move up from my 5DII if it's noticeably better in that regard (I'm currently renting a 5DIII to make such a comparison). Whether the 6D is a move up, down, or sideways depends on what you have, what you want and how it actually performs in practice; we're all different.... And if the Nikon equivalents really are better in anyone's experience, well, buy them. As I recently found out, the cost of moving from one system to another is less than a lot of people seem to think.


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## x-vision (Dec 13, 2012)

sdsr said:


> If the 6D were "so much better" than it really is, and still significantly cheaper than the 5DIII, why would anyone buy the 5DIII? (Or, put differently, why would Canon have released the 6D at all?)



Well, that's something for Canon to figure out, as they are in the business of selling cameras, not me.
But the 6D should have been better. 

I feel that in their efforts to differentiate it from the 5DIII, Canon ended up compromising the 6D.
That's not smart. 

Instead, Canon should have put extra efforts in proper differentiation _without_ compromising the 6D.


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## leolol (Dec 13, 2012)

@Neuro From where do you have the information that 6ds are flying from the shelfs? I dont think they do, as they arent even out everywhere in the world.


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## tomscott (Dec 13, 2012)

Think your missing my point.

Im comparing in use, once you have sampled a better camera AF even the 7D its hard to go back to having so few, and for 5D MKII users most of which I would say are advanced amateurs or prosumers the 6D offers a slight upgrade in IQ and ISO whether it is worth while ditching it for I cant say, but where it counts as IQ will be similar AF body construction sealing the 6D isnt better etc

A camera is more than IQ, single point in the middle? You saying all of your pics are composed with the subject bang in the middle? Have you used fast L primes and tried to focus and recompose? The plane of focus shifts. That is my argument, if you are shooting with a 20mp FF camera you need good glass to resolve it so £700+ lenses if you were frustrated as a 5D MKII user then the 6D wont appeal, because the AF hasn't improved significantly where it counts. And I think an extra £1000 over a XXXD is even more difficult to swallow as an amateur!

I doubt highly that people who are used to buying an XXXD around £400-800 would upgrade to a camera that is £1600 body only without a lens seen as tho non of thier lenses would work! its a big money upgrade. XXXD users buy the cams caus they are the cheapest way to get into the DSLR market.

Im not saying the 6D is bad. Just saying its compromised for a lot of users. ISO and IQ count more so if your printing, for internet work the res is low so counts less. The majority of XXXD users buying a full frame camera wouldn't make sense regardless of spending £2200 on one with one lens, most use photos and put them on facebook...

Of corse I am generalising but I think these markets are different and this wont become the popular majestic entry FF camera eveyone has been waiting for over night. I still think £2000 is a lot of money for a camera for people who aren't making money from photography. There will always be gear heads that need the latest and greatest but that market is small I just think the target market has been missed slightly and the more keen photographers will give this a miss because of its shortcomings and makes it a hard decision and I would always think I wish id spent the extra.. and if you can afford £2200 for the 6D and 24-105 then a 5D MKIII with the 24-105 at £2500 is not a big jump.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 14, 2012)

leolol said:


> @Neuro From where do you have the information that 6ds are flying from the shelfs? I dont think they do, as they arent even out everywhere in the world.



I have no such information. AFAIK, no one has such information, one way or the other, which made the claim in the post to which I was replying baseless. That was my point.


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## Zlatko (Dec 14, 2012)

This thread tracks the usual dissatisfactions:
1) Why would anyone be interested in a camera that I'm not interested in?
2) If a camera doesn't meet my personal needs, then it is a "crippled" camera.
3) Whatever features a camera has, it should have had some feature(s) of the next more expensive model, but without the added cost.
4) If a camera has features I don't need, but can easily be turned off or ignored, I must still complain as if they can't possibly be useful to anyone.
5) If they don't offer the specific camera that I want at this moment, within my present budget, then the company is headed in the wrong direction.
6) If DxO thinks my brand's sensor is inferior, then it must be inferior and I must complain about it and/or switch brands.


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## Zlatko (Dec 14, 2012)

nicku said:


> look at Nikon (Sony origin) sensors.... better resolution, way better DR and colors... yes beyond ISO 6400 -12800 Canon is better at High ISO.


Canon color is still better IMO.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> leolol said:
> 
> 
> > @Neuro From where do you have the information that 6ds are flying from the shelfs? I dont think they do, as they arent even out everywhere in the world.
> ...



FYI. Currently, I'm staying in Malaysia and 6D is already available here. The first day the 6D is available in one online store (Shashinki), stocks were immediately gone the next day. They are now waiting for new shipments. There's also one store offering 6D bodies for RM 5799. Some of my friends already bought their 6D. From this local site: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/ftz/index.php, second-hand 5D2s are becoming cheaper everyday. From as high as RM 5800, down to RM 4600 now (as of December 2012). ($1 = RM1). It seems they are signs that those users are moving to another camera body. I am guessing it's either a 5D3 or a 6D.


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## Chosenbydestiny (Dec 14, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> This thread tracks the usual dissatisfactions:
> 1) Why would anyone be interested in a camera that I'm not interested in?
> 2) If a camera doesn't meet my personal needs, then it is a "crippled" camera.
> 3) Whatever features a camera has, it should have had some feature(s) of the next more expensive model, but without the added cost.
> ...



+1 and most of those who complain about it haven't even used it or have gone as far as owning the product. What I'm also seeing is self proclaimed "pros" that have no work to show or crappy portfolios complaining about it. Now, why should we care about those opinions?


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## Hobby Shooter (Dec 14, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> This thread tracks the usual dissatisfactions:
> 1) Why would anyone be interested in a camera that I'm not interested in?
> 2) If a camera doesn't meet my personal needs, then it is a "crippled" camera.
> 3) Whatever features a camera has, it should have had some feature(s) of the next more expensive model, but without the added cost.
> ...


 ;D M y only complaint is that I currently can't afford the lenses I want to get to my 5D3. But that's not really Canon's fault. Maybe if I cut down on beer I could afford them faster, but that's a really difficult choice to make.


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## Area256 (Dec 14, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> This thread tracks the usual dissatisfactions:
> 1) Why would anyone be interested in a camera that I'm not interested in?
> 2) If a camera doesn't meet my personal needs, then it is a "crippled" camera.
> 3) Whatever features a camera has, it should have had some feature(s) of the next more expensive model, but without the added cost.
> ...



+1 You see these things happen in politics and news paper comments as well. Usually in the form of: "I don't use health care/public transit/public schools/social service xyz, so why should my tax $ pay for them? but social service abc was awful last time I used it, it should be funded better!" Classic, "the world should be build for me, and me only" syndrome 

I like my 6D, it does everything I need in a camera, and saves me some money for more good glass. If it's not good enough for some, that's fine, there is the 5D3/1Dx and cameras from Nikon/Sony/ect that may work better for them.


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## Hobby Shooter (Dec 14, 2012)

nicku said:


> Gothmoth said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



Nicku, you have been quite loud on this forum for some time now about how bad Canon is doing. It seems almost that you're not sure what to do and won't leave Canon until you are convinced that you will have followers from here. I don't think you will get many though as your case doesn't seem very strong and I think you have successfully managed to alienate a few people.. I am sure you are a very good photographer, so if you honestly feel that Canon's technology is holding you back, then go ahead. You come out as quite trollish in your comments sometimes, maybe it's because you, like myself, are not a native english speaker. Fact remains though that if anybody is considering chaning brands I do believe it is of very little interest to people in general.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 16, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > tomscott said:
> ...




i have not laid hands on the 6d yet, nor have i seen a d600 in the hands of any of my nikon using friends, but, from what i have seen in images and reviews, the AF points on the d600 are all in the center of the frame anyways. 

One thing i am noticing as i watch all the prices, sales, and that amazon top sellers list ---it does really seem that both nikon and canon have shot themselves in the foot with both the d600 and the 6d, and odd sales on 5d3 and d800. the 6d has yet to make the top 20, and for a while the d600 was in the top 20 but now nikon is tossing in a rebate on d800's. It seems that the rush to add an entry level FF has hurt the better offerings from both. the d800 had dropped in sales as the mk3 got discounted and the d600 sold. Now the prices of both are cut, and yeah if your looking for a primary body - if on nikon why buy a d600 if the cost of a d800 is down to $2800? Same for the 6d, with all the mk3 discounts why not just foot the extra $$$...

back to the point, the 6d. the field is so odd now. The 6d and the d600 are way more comparable than the d800 and the mk3. IE for a wedding shooter at least, if you are on canon, no reason to switch. And if you are nikon and using a d700, the d800 isn't for you - i hear it all the time when my nikon friends are asking for upgrade advice - for wedding work, stay on the d700, or look for a used d3, d3s, or a d4. None of them recommend the d800 (for wedding work). I say stop worrying so much about spec sheets and go shoot!!!!


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## Rienzphotoz (Dec 16, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.


I am sure Canon is very concerned with your threats, they are going to crawl and beg for you to send your money on their products, especially now that you are "diversified" :


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## elflord (Dec 16, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Think your missing my point.
> 
> Im comparing in use, once you have sampled a better camera AF even the 7D its hard to go back to having so few, and for 5D MKII users most of which I would say are advanced amateurs or prosumers the 6D offers a slight upgrade in IQ and ISO whether it is worth while ditching it for I cant say, but where it counts as IQ will be similar AF body construction sealing the 6D isnt better etc
> 
> A camera is more than IQ, single point in the middle? You saying all of your pics are composed with the subject bang in the middle? Have you used fast L primes and tried to focus and recompose?



I've done this quite frequently with the 5DII, and I don't think I'm the only one -- the 5DII was very popular among users of fast primes when it was a current model. 

With the 50mm f/1.4, you have about an inch of dof when shooting at 3 feet. 

If the lens had substantial field curvature (and the focal plane were a perfect sphere) you could rotate the camera as far as 10 degrees (so you're focusing on midway between the center and the edge of the frame). 

This is a pretty extreme dof example and pretty extreme assumptions about field curvature. Field curvature is less pronounced with tele lenses. So while this seems to be a big deal on internet forums I haven't seen much evidence for it. 



> I doubt highly that people who are used to buying an XXXD around £400-800 would upgrade to a camera that is £1600 body only without a lens seen as tho non of thier lenses would work!



Not sure what you mean about none of the lenses working, unless they only own EF-S zooms in which case they probably aren't too concerned about whether or not fast primes will work well.

The 5DII, which like the 6D has a tight group of AF points in the center and was the pro camera of choice until recently. Hardly unusable for a pro, let alone an amateur.


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## Badger (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes I am serious about 6D, and I love it!
I'm not a professional even though I have had friends ask me to shoot their weddings, homecoming, family portraits etc. All this I have done with the 20D and an equally old Tamron lens! Remember that camera? So, it was time to upgrade my body. Question was, do I buy a discounted 5DIII, or for about the same price, or get the 6D PLUS the 24-105L with IS? I went with the upgrade to the body AND lens. Sure I wish it did a bunch of other things, (I actually love the wi fi and GPS feature), but bottom line, I'm getting better pictures out of this thing than I did with my 20D. It has also breathed new life into my 70-200 f4 which I use to shoot my daughter's basketball games. Being able to increase the ISO has allowed me to increase the shutter speed and the auto focus is fast enough to keep up with the 7th grade girls basketball team


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## helpful (Dec 17, 2012)

Badger said:


> Yes I am serious about 6D, and I love it!
> I'm not a professional even though I have had friends ask me to shoot their weddings, homecoming, family portraits etc. All this I have done with the 20D and an equally old Tamron lens! Remember that camera? So, it was time to upgrade my body. Question was, do I buy a discounted 5DIII, or for about the same price, or get the 6D PLUS the 24-105L with IS? I went with the upgrade to the body AND lens. Sure I wish it did a bunch of other things, (I actually love the wi fi and GPS feature), but bottom line, I'm getting better pictures out of this thing than I did with my 20D. It has also breathed new life into my 70-200 f4 which I use to shoot my daughter's basketball games. Being able to increase the ISO has allowed me to increase the shutter speed and the auto focus is fast enough to keep up with the 7th grade girls basketball team



You said it. The 6D is awesome. Really, really awesome. It's what a dream version of the 5DII would be. In every case that I didn't need the advanced tracking features of the 5D3 autofocus, the 6D is as good or better. I've experimented a bit to see whether it can sometimes track action with just the center point, for example, but I've not had many opportunities where I could take the risk of possibly missing shots for customers. I've also been using the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 art lens for a while, and it goes with the 6D just like love and marriage, or a horse and carriage. I just came back from a Christmas program, and I really had no need for anything but these two cameras: 1DX with Sigma 85mm f/1.4 and 6D with Sigma 35mm f/1.4. It feels so good not to need 100 pounds of equipment anymore.


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## Bearcat1 (Dec 17, 2012)

For me, it's all about the ability to quickly share photos with friend and family either via email or Facebook. My current workflow includes a dreadfully slow upload process on my Mac. I like the idea of previewing my photos on my IPhone or IPad and emailing a scaled down version to a friend or family members email.


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## prjkt (Dec 17, 2012)

Bearcat1 said:


> For me, it's all about the ability to quickly share photos with friend and family either via email or Facebook. My current workflow includes a dreadfully slow upload process on my Mac. I like the idea of previewing my photos on my IPhone or IPad and emailing a scaled down version to a friend or family members email.


that, and the "how are you doing that?!" Reaction that goes along with it  - sometimes with more expletives


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## Axilrod (Dec 18, 2012)

zim said:


> Can we have a funniest analogy of the year competition please?



You misspelled "dumbest."


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## Axilrod (Dec 18, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> This thread tracks the usual dissatisfactions:
> 1) Why would anyone be interested in a camera that I'm not interested in?
> 2) If a camera doesn't meet my personal needs, then it is a "crippled" camera.
> 3) Whatever features a camera has, it should have had some feature(s) of the next more expensive model, but without the added cost.
> ...



+1000000000, /thread


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## Bearcat1 (Dec 19, 2012)

Coming from a Rebel, all I can say is WOW I Love This Camera! FF is the way to go, completely changes the dynamics of your lenses. The Wifi is incredible and function able. Very pleased with my purchase, I'm excited to try my new 24-70 II with it. Loving Canon right now!


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## Nitoruu (Dec 19, 2012)

The new 6D is NOT a bad camera. yes there is only 1 cross type, 97% view finder, and a burst rate of 4.5. BUT there are good things to it too. It has a better ISO performance than the mk3, better focusing than the mk2, it's lighter, etc. I don't have a problem with the one cross type because I mostly use the center focus point anyways. As I continued to shoot, I believe that burst rate doesn't mean a lot. To me it just means more useless shots that you have. Some may disagree and I'm fine with that, it's just my opinion. Many people also don't mind the 1 cross type because they also just shoot with the center AF.

I do agree what other people say. About how others might want to upgrade to a full-frame body. I personally want to and I was deciding on the mk2 or 6D. I want a 6D because it has a better focusing system and better ISO. If you don't like the 6D, okay that's fine. But it is no reason to bash on Canon for their new camera. Just move on and continue to do what you would like to do or what almost EVERYONE on this forum likes to do, take photos.

Looking on the bright sides, the 6D is a good camera. It's a full frame, it takes good photos, and it's affordable for people on a budget.


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## panicboy (Dec 19, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Different strokes I guess, also, everyone looking at these bodies has their own needs to fill. For me, I have a mk3 so this would be a backup body. Yeah, the price difference isn't that huge (in the sticker at least, it's closer to $1200 difference after tax though). To me, that is the cost of a 135 f2L. If your on a mk2 looking to upgrade though, then yeah the 6d may not be as big of a leap as you want. But if your on a 60D, then just the FF sensor alone is reason to buy! Different strokes!



And if you're an a 50d? That's what I am and I feel that the 6d would be a downgrade in several ways:

Maximum shutter speed
Flash sync speed
AF-Point distribution across the viewfinder
Ergonomics (the joystick is missing, so I cannot switch AF points easily)
Burst rate
SD instead of CF cards

That's why I am still not sure how my "way to FF" should look like. If the 6d specs were similiar to those of the Nikon d600 I think my decision would be clear. But now I think I will go 5dMk2 (which is still much cheaper than 6d when bought used), so Canon won't be seeing any of my money.
In fact, IMO already the 60d was a downgrade from the great 50d in several ways (worse ergonomics + missing AFMA coming into my mind).


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 19, 2012)

panicboy said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > Different strokes I guess, also, everyone looking at these bodies has their own needs to fill. For me, I have a mk3 so this would be a backup body. Yeah, the price difference isn't that huge (in the sticker at least, it's closer to $1200 difference after tax though). To me, that is the cost of a 135 f2L. If your on a mk2 looking to upgrade though, then yeah the 6d may not be as big of a leap as you want. But if your on a 60D, then just the FF sensor alone is reason to buy! Different strokes!
> ...



the d600isn't really that much better, at least according to the list you give --


Maximum shutter speed - 1/4000 on both d600 and 6d
Flash sync speed - 1/180 on 6d, 1/200 on d600, not a huge difference
AF-Point distribution across the viewfinder---- see links

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dojoklo/8001132878/#sizes/m/in/photostream/ - 6d
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dojoklo/8000274878/#sizes/m/in/photostream/ - d600

more points but they cover the same area - the d600 does have more cross points though

Ergonomics (the joystick is missing, so I cannot switch AF points easily)

I can't make any statements to how the 6d feels. But, if you are used to canon nikon will feel foreign and backwards to you. And at least for me, on both my 7d and the mk3, i usel the wheel and dial as opposed tothe joystick anyway...
Burst rate the 6d is a little slower, but unless your shooting fast moving stuff like sports its not an issue. I am guessing this is the case because you worry about the flash sync speed, and if your using off cam flash then you don't want to be on high speed anyways
SD instead of CF cards I'll give you that, i'd rather have CF cards, but, SD is cheap so there is that!

From the sound of your list, your upgrade path seems to be a step up from either of these bodies. The mk3 would cover your list of worries and then some! And so would the d800 if your not too invested in glass. And if money is the issue either of those bodies won't fit the budget, then its a matter of compromise. I still contend that anyone on a XXD (sorry, i only said 60d because its the latest XXD series body) body would be blown away by the capabilities of any FF sensor (I would bet a 5d2 would would blow your mind too!)

I agree with you on the downgrade re: 50d to 60d. Remember though, when the 50D came out there was no 7d. Many of the goodies from the 50d went to the 7d, leaving the 60d to be more of a consumer body.

Last thing to say - "But now I think I will go 5dMk2 (which is still much cheaper than 6d when bought used), so Canon won't be seeing any of my money." Part of me says go for it, the 5d2 is a great camera! Then I see that other part, the Canon won't be seeing any of my money" - get real man! Used or new, if you hate canon that much then go switch - I am so sure nikon is so much more benevolent. Remember, even used you ae supporting them (hell, thats one of the reasons they make high quality bodies, even a used sale gets you into the family as it were, now come see our lenses and flashes!). Yeah, sigma and tamron make a couple good things, but there will always be a few you end up coming back home for. Used, yup, someone down the line bought it new. and that someone is most likely upgrading. Lets say you snag that mk2, but the person selling it was waiting for that to sell to buy a 1dx. You just helped them give money to canon. And then theres the viral effect, whenever you shoot people will see that your using a canon. If your images rock they will say, wow, i want what he has, a canon! 

So if you really have that much of a bug up your but against canon, then buying one even used is still supporting them! Good luck making your decision!


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## verysimplejason (Dec 19, 2012)

panicboy said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > Different strokes I guess, also, everyone looking at these bodies has their own needs to fill. For me, I have a mk3 so this would be a backup body. Yeah, the price difference isn't that huge (in the sticker at least, it's closer to $1200 difference after tax though). To me, that is the cost of a 135 f2L. If your on a mk2 looking to upgrade though, then yeah the 6d may not be as big of a leap as you want. But if your on a 60D, then just the FF sensor alone is reason to buy! Different strokes!
> ...



I guess it all depends on the user if he deemed it's not an upgrade or not. 5D mark III is always there for you. It's a lot better than 6D or D600 or 5D2. For me, the controls and specs afforded by 6D is enough. What matters to more is the IQ and low-light performance. I know I want the 5D3 but I can't afford it. I think you'll find 5D2 a very good upgrade from your 50D IQ wise. Have fun shooting.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 19, 2012)

Nitoruu said:


> The new 6D is NOT a bad camera. yes there is only 1 cross type, 97% view finder, and a burst rate of 4.5. BUT there are good things to it too. It has a better ISO performance than the mk3, better focusing than the mk2, it's lighter, etc. I don't have a problem with the one cross type because I mostly use the center focus point anyways. As I continued to shoot, I believe that burst rate doesn't mean a lot. To me it just means more useless shots that you have. Some may disagree and I'm fine with that, it's just my opinion. Many people also don't mind the 1 cross type because they also just shoot with the center AF.
> 
> I do agree what other people say. About how others might want to upgrade to a full-frame body. I personally want to and I was deciding on the mk2 or 6D. I want a 6D because it has a better focusing system and better ISO. If you don't like the 6D, okay that's fine. But it is no reason to bash on Canon for their new camera. Just move on and continue to do what you would like to do or what almost EVERYONE on this forum likes to do, take photos.
> 
> Looking on the bright sides, the 6D is a good camera. It's a full frame, it takes good photos, and it's affordable for people on a budget.



Well said!


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## tomscott (Dec 19, 2012)

The 6D or the 5DMKII will be a massive upgrade IQ wise over the 50D. The 50D was made for the megapixel race it was the same technology as the 40D but with a third more pixels. Therefore its noise performance was worse than the 40D it replaced. 

If you are serious the 5DMKIII is the way to go. Mine arrived the other day and it is brilliant.


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## darkhound (Dec 19, 2012)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.



I'm upgrading from an XTi to a 6D. Pretty excited about the upgrade in image quality. As an enthusiast, I'll use it mostly for travel. The image quality is better than the 5D Mark II. I use the center AF only, keyed to a button, and think a billion AF points is the dumbest thing ever. It's not like I am going to be shooting birds in flight or sports. I sometimes go to pretty remote places while traveling (e.g. safari), so GPS is going to be really nice.

Oh, and at $1700 (in a few months), it's a lot cheaper than anything else out there! I do wish for a better VF, but you can't get everything...


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## AudioGlenn (Dec 23, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Hate to admit it, but I agree.
> ...



+1


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## AudioGlenn (Dec 23, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> This thread tracks the usual dissatisfactions:
> 1) Why would anyone be interested in a camera that I'm not interested in?
> 2) If a camera doesn't meet my personal needs, then it is a "crippled" camera.
> 3) Whatever features a camera has, it should have had some feature(s) of the next more expensive model, but without the added cost.
> ...



LOL


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## AudioGlenn (Dec 23, 2012)

If you can't take a good picture with a 6D (or any other DSLR) because of the limitations of your "sensor" or the "lack of cross-type AF points", you're seriously kidding yourself. My wife takes great pictures with her iPhone. 

If you see no value in the product, then it's not for you. That doesn't mean it's not the right product for others. I seriously considered the 6D before I purchased my 5D markIII. After some research, I decided I wanted the 5D instead and that I would probably get a 6D for a backup body eventually. Or maybe a 6D mark II in a few years

Side Note: So what if the D600 is cheaper. I'm sure it has it's own issues. I bought into the Canon system MAINLY because I could share glass with my photo buddies. If I bought the D600 and all the Nikon equivalents to all my Canon glass, that would be WAAAAAAAAY more expensive.


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## keithinmelbourne (Dec 27, 2012)

The big advantage that the 6D has for me is size and weight. I have a 1Ds3 and an OMD currently. The 1Ds is very heavy as a walkaround, travel camera, and the OMD doesn't have the range of lenses. The 6D will allow me to take a few primes, including the 17TSE on my travels. In fact, I'm toying with the idea of just taking a 6D and the 17TSE along with the OMD and the 25 f1.4 and 45. This would cover most of my travel needs. So, I plan on getting a 6D in the next 2 or so months.


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## hemidesign (Dec 29, 2012)

My 6D arrived few days ago.. and I can say.. WOW!
comparing my 6D with my old 40D and 1DS mk3:

6D focuses with more accuracy than my 1Dsmk3 body and 40D, I did many test shots.. using 2 lenses: 35mm f1.4L and 135mm f2L at day and night, no external flash, just using one shot mode and center point focus, only!
here we go..

day

6D 93%
40D 68%
1DS mk3 90%

night 

6D 94% + accurate focus, dead on! 
40D 2% + focus hunting
1Ds mk3 12% + focus hunting

Chuck Westfall from Canon USA says:
The 6D is 95% improved over the 5D II, specially in the center point AF down to -3EV, and, it refreshingly gets the shortest Canon DSLR name we've seen in many years - one confirming a new model line. He emphasized that Canon's goal for the EOS 6D was cleaner pixel-level image quality. "From what I'm seeing, they were quite successful. The 6D advantage builds as the ISO setting increases. The difference becomes rather easy to see at ISO 3200 and the 6D's lead continues building until it leaves the 5D II in the dust at ISO 51200."

Bryan from the-digital-picture says:
I can focus the 6D's center point on a subject with reasonable contrast down until auto exposure gives me a setting of 160 at 10 seconds and f/2.8 (really dark) with the Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II USM Lens mounted (note that the 6D's metering range spec is listed at EV 1-20). The Canon EOS 1D X's center point could not focus on the same subject with the same lens mounted. Note that the 6D focuses very slowly under these dismal lighting conditions - but locking slowly is far better than failing to lock.

My conclusion is.. the Canon 6D is one of the best cameras ever made by Canon.. why?

1- phenomenal center point AF system, down to -3EV, just awesome!
2- very low noise in high ISO, best from any Canon camera to date
3- full frame in a lightweight body
4- low power consumption from a SDHC (and affordable) card
5- silent shooting mode
6- white balance is outstanding.. the color tone BLOWS AWAY from my 1Ds mk3 and 40D
7- first camera with wi-fi and gps built in.. 
8- made with plastic?.. oh yeah! (but don't forget, just the top of the camera uses plastic, for the gps and wi-fi reception signal).. The Canon 6D uses a ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene) and polycarbonate mixed.. "Polycarbonate / ABS is a durable material. Although it has high impact-resistance, it has low scratch-resistance and so a hard coating" by Wikipedia
9- ouch!!


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## webphoto (Dec 29, 2012)

hemidesign said:


> My 6D arrived few days ago.. and I can say.. WOW!
> comparing my 6D with my old 40D and 1DS mk3:
> 
> 6D focuses with more accuracy than my 1Dsmk3 body and 40D, I did many test shots.. using 2 lenses: 35mm f1.4L and 135mm f2L at day and night, no external flash, just using one shot mode and center point focus, only!
> ...




I couldn't agree more with you. I also bought a 6D and it is amazing. The IQ is very impressive.

This is a link to a picture of the 6D body. It was built solid.

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/canon-eos-6d-hands-on/5290674/


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## poias (Dec 30, 2012)

hemidesign said:


> My 6D arrived few days ago.. and I can say.. WOW!
> comparing my 6D with my old 40D and 1DS mk3



You cannot be serious about comparing to 10 year old cameras! That was precisely my point -- Canon fans (voluntary or those stuck) are getting hosed by the company , thus they are ecstatic about improvements like 1-point improved focus... hence my OT: are you really serious about 6D?

The only people who logically can get 6D are those Canon Crop users who have tons of pro/FF L glasses but cannot afford a 5D3. If you are upgrading to FF from Canon and are not beaming with L glasses already, the logical route is to jump to a BETTER brand anyway.


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## bdunbar79 (Dec 30, 2012)

poias said:


> hemidesign said:
> 
> 
> > My 6D arrived few days ago.. and I can say.. WOW!
> ...



I have a number you can call to present your thread topic over the phone. Got a pen and paper? Ok, here goes:

1-800-SOMEONE-WHO-GIVES-A-CRAP


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## webphoto (Dec 30, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> poias said:
> 
> 
> > hemidesign said:
> ...



I am not sure what do you mean by "BETTER brand". I hope you are not saying Nikon because I had to return my D600 due to dust/oil on the sensor. I bought a 6D and it is amazing. I am not sure what is your point.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 30, 2012)

webphoto said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The point is to be a troll, which *poias* clearly is. It's fun to feed them for a while, but soon becomes boring.


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## tpatana (Dec 30, 2012)

There's many reasons why I shouldn't buy 6D.

I'm sure there's many reason why some other people should buy 6D.

Telling people they shouldn't buy 6D, is like telling BicMac sucks because QB has better meat/price -ratio. Someone might have reasons to choose different than other people, and that's fine.

That said, I think anyone planning to buy 6D should do detailed comparison between 7D, 6D, 5D2 and 5D3. Any of those is a great camera for someone, depending on their needs. If 6D comes out winner, buy one. For me 6D is not a good choice.


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## aalbert (Dec 30, 2012)

Received my 6D this week, and I am quite happy with it... Major upgrade from my 550D... Took it to a pro-photographer friends house - he shoots a 5DII, and after putting 150 shots on my camera, he was pretty impressed at the IQ and ISO performance.... he had mixed feeling on the autofocus speed, but that could have been a result of using the 24-105 in the evening hours.

Anyway, with a battery grip, it feels quite natural in the hands, and the rest of the features work pretty well for me..... Am I serious about it - yup, I paid the money to get it.


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## Hobby Shooter (Dec 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> webphoto said:
> 
> 
> > bdunbar79 said:
> ...


You could be right here. But it could also be a cry for help.


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## hemidesign (Dec 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> webphoto said:
> 
> 
> > bdunbar79 said:
> ...



I agree.. will become boring and might be kicked one day... just saying....


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## salsaguy (Jan 1, 2013)

Heres a good hands on review of the 6D stating its pros and cons:

http://froknowsphoto.com/canon-6d-review/
He agrees the lack of more cross type focus points is the big downer for this camera.

I myself upgraded from a Rebel T2i to the 60D due to the more/better cross type focus points and the built in off camera flash control on the 60D, which is great. Its a great camera

I would love to have a 6D as a 2nd body and have a FF body to compliment my crop sensor 60D, but going down in # of cross type sensors on such an expensive FF camera to me is a downgrade. They could have still kept the 6D lower on the totem pole compared to the 5DMk3 if they kept the 60D specs and just made it with a FF sensor. Lots of the Rebels now have better specs and features than the 6D.

Yes Canon is targeting the Rebel and XXD users who want to get into the FF arena but I think they left out some key high priority specs and instead added Wifi/GPS and some modern things to make it desireable to "some" but I think they left out many of those pro-sumer/advanced amateures who are in the know and wish the 6D had more, so they could have no reason NOT to go FF and get the 6D instead of giving us some concerns to add/upgrade to the 6D, like me.

The lack of a built in flash on a FF camera makes sense as most getting into FF know off off camera flash or external flash is the way to go.

So Im torn and may wait to see if the upgrade the 6D to some better specs down the road.

My 4 lenses are EF 50mm 1.8, EF 85mm 1.8, EF-S 15-85 zoom, EF-S 10-22mm zoom.


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## skitron (Jan 1, 2013)

salsaguy said:


> He agrees the lack of more cross type focus points is the big downer for this camera...Lots of the Rebels now have better specs and features than the 6D...So Im torn and may wait to see if the upgrade the 6D to some better specs down the road.



FWIW, I went 60D (1 week) > 50D (2yrs) > 5D2 (1yr) > 6D (1 week) > 5D3 (1 month so far) and yes the lack of cross outers is a bit of a bummer on the 6D. But to try to help put it in perspective, I'd take the 6D AF over the 60D AF system any day, even if 60D had AFMA (the lack of which was a deal killer for me). The "give-away" on the outers is not much in actual practice IMO (as opposed to spec sheet) between these two bodies, while the 6D center is the best of the entire Canon lineup in both practice and spec, 6D has AFMA where 60D does not, 6D also has a simplified version of the "AF ballistics" found in 5D3 and 1DX where 60D has none. Plus 6D locks way faster than 60D.

I sent my 6D back due to a strong magenta shift in the RAWs and odd dynamic rendering. I have not seen that in other posted shots, so conclude mine was just a dud. I went 5D3 for the color rendering, moire-less video, and wanted to try the expanded AF. I'll never go back to a lesser AF on my primary body now that I'm spoiled rotten with it. But again, to help put it in perspective, I would have been more than happy with the 6D AF system compared to what I had used in the past, and it spoiled me rotten too, just in a different way. LOL, I had to take a chill pill when it tried the 5D3 in very low light after experiencing the 6D.


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## skitron (Jan 1, 2013)

poias said:


> The only people who logically can get 6D are those Canon Crop users who have tons of pro/FF L glasses but cannot afford a 5D3. If you are upgrading to FF from Canon and are not beaming with L glasses already, the logical route is to jump to a BETTER brand anyway.



LOL, despite the obvious trolling... 

The D600 high ISO noise and bad color rendering are pretty nasty warts imo.

So maybe the better "logic" is if you want a nice general purpose camera that becomes a monster in bright light and you have good color correction in post and don't care about being able to shoot in low light, the D600 is a great choice. And the 6D is a great choice if you want a nice general purpose camera with good color rendering that becomes a total beast in low light, and maximum possible perfomance at ISO 100 is not as important to you.

Plus remember, neither a 6D nor D600 will melt, explode, crumble to dust, or otherwise self destruct if the other brand is sitting next to it in the closet or camera bag...nor will using both brands cause the photog to go insane, blind, commence projectile vomitting, or otherwise end up in the hospital or psych ward. 

IMO, one could actually make a pretty good gear bag with one each of these bodies and a couple of lenses for each that exploits their strengths. JMO.


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## eyeland (Jan 1, 2013)

I for one am waiting for more tests of the non-center points AF on the 6D.
The outer points on my old rebel were rather useless and I surely did enjoy the AF of the 60D. I don't need many AF points, tracking or other fancy AF stuff for the work I do, but it surely is nice to have the option of off-center focus without having to recompose or crop.
Like so many others, I am well aware that the 5D3 is what I really want, and like so many others, the 5D3 is out of my price-range for the time being, and so, half time I manage to convince myself that the outer points on the 6D MUST perform better that the rebel AF. Surely, it could be that these non-cross type AF points are better that similarly labelled points in earlier cameras?
I am sure that the 6D center point is great, but I what I really need to know before pulling the trigger, is just HOW "bad" those outer points are.
Anyone with access to 6D and earlier AF systems up for doing a few simple tests of the peripheral AF points?


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## BL (Jan 2, 2013)

eyeland said:


> I for one am waiting for more tests of the non-center points AF on the 6D.
> The outer points on my old rebel were rather useless and I surely did enjoy the AF of the 60D. I don't need many AF points, tracking or other fancy AF stuff for the work I do, but it surely is nice to have the option of off-center focus without having to recompose or crop.
> Like so many others, I am well aware that the 5D3 is what I really want, and like so many others, the 5D3 is out of my price-range for the time being, and so, half time I manage to convince myself that the outer points on the 6D MUST perform better that the rebel AF. Surely, it could be that these non-cross type AF points are better that similarly labelled points in earlier cameras?
> I am sure that the 6D center point is great, but I what I really need to know before pulling the trigger, is just HOW "bad" those outer points are.
> Anyone with access to 6D and earlier AF systems up for doing a few simple tests of the peripheral AF points?



not sure what your experience is with the 5Dc or 5DII outer AF points, but here's what a user told me when I asked specifically about the 5Dc & 85L II combo (with outer AF points)



Chosenbydestiny said:


> On my 6D it behaves very much similar to the way it did on my old 5D classic.... I wouldn't say it was impossible to get the shot, but it's just very very difficult to get a shot in focus if the subject is moving or is in a more challenging lighting situation. My 85L still works best on my 1D mark III and 5D mark III bodies. However, 85L with 6D's center point is so awesome, even indoors. I know it's been debated against many times, but I have a lot of success with center focus and recompose at f1.2. At times I notice the 5D mark III has difficulty indoors, even with the center point. But the 6D will lock better with center point at night when the 5D mark III can't or has much difficulty doing so, with just my 13 inch macbook pro lighting the entire room.


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## Wildfire (Jan 2, 2013)

eyeland said:


> Anyone with access to 6D and earlier AF systems up for doing a few simple tests of the peripheral AF points?


I no longer have access to my 5D2 and T3i (just sold both) but I can tell you that the 6D outer AF points definitely feel better than the rebel, and probably better than the 5D2.

However, for me they are still not good enough to want to use them -- I still use the center AF point exclusively, as I did with the previous cameras.


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## kbmelb (Jan 2, 2013)

Why I am not excited about 6D even though IQ seems to be quite good;

Times used Center Focus point in the last 2 year: 0x

In fact I just picked a used 1DsIII to be a back up to my 5DIII. A lot of what I shoot is in very low light environments with moving subjects. These shoots even give my 5DIII fits so I decided to sell my 5DII and 1DsII and get the 1DsIII. If the III's AF is at least as good as the II's I'll be very happy.


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## eyeland (Jan 3, 2013)

mm Tuff choice for us lovers of the peripheral points...
Guess it's time to find a shop to play around with the 6D and give the outer points one last chance before picking up another crop body while saving for a 5Dmk3.


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## Radiating (Jan 3, 2013)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.



You're missing the point of the 6D

Lenses are generally limited to around 22 megapixels of resolution, and no zoom has ever been made for 35mm that can exceed 21.3 megapixels over more than 15% of it's center frame.

The point therefore of the 6D is that it has less than HALF the noise of the 5D Mark II and 60% better shadow recovery while having enough megapixels for any lens or just under.

The 6D really shines at super high ISO though, at ISO 16,600, the 5D Mark II has the same ISO performance as the 6D at 51,200. Thats 3 times better high ISO, in addition to the 2 times less noise at low and medium ISO.

One might be mistaken to assume that the 6D has the same or equal resolution to the 5D Mark II, because it has 99% the linear resolution. This would be a mistake, the 6D has 13% MORE resolution due to an improved AA filter using the latest technology. 

It's also lighter, smaller and has much better AF, the price will hit $1700 in 6 months too. Guaranteed.


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## sdsr (Jan 8, 2013)

skitron said:


> IMO, one could actually make a pretty good gear bag with one each of these bodies [6D & D600] and a couple of lenses for each that exploits their strengths. JMO.



That sounds eminently sensible, and with something like that in mind I rented both for several days over the New Year weekend, thinking that one or other would make a good companion for my 5DII. For reasons explained in another thread I preferred the Canon in every respect that matters to me and actively disliked a few aspects of the Nikon (esp. the controls and relatively murky viewfinder), so I'll not be adding a Nikon. But it's not hard to imagine that someone with different taste/priorities might conclude otherwise.


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## ashmadux (Jan 8, 2013)

RustyTheGeek said:


> candyman said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



+3

these pics rock. Gotta love macro!


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2013)

Radiating said:


> You're missing the point of the 6D



Many people are missing the point - unlike the 5d2, the 6d is build to be able to be produced much cheaper - right now it's nearly 10% below the release price (€200 less than €1999) , and that after only about 2 weeks of general availability in Germany! 

So it seems the 6d will stay well below the 5d3, maybe even more than the current €1000 - and might even reach the Nikon d600 level. And @€1600 the weaknesses may be seen in a more forgiving light, at least the 6d is able to focus with af assist in under 2-3 seconds :->


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## dswatson83 (Jan 11, 2013)

Here is a video review of the 6D...it's a bit of a mixed bag. The picture quality is on par or better than the 5D3 but everything else for the most part is limited...except for the additional wifi which I love and GPS which I could care less about. :
http://learningcameras.com/reviews/4-dslrs/91-canon-6d-review


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## Aglet (Jan 12, 2013)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors...



The 6D has a few IQ improvements over the 5D2 that ARE worthwhile.
100 and 200 ISO banding noise are almost completely eliminated compared to 5d2, my biggest complaint almost fixed.
6D's interface is better, center AF is better, quiet shutter is REALLY nice, hi ISO blows 5d2 away.




Radiating said:


> Lenses are generally limited to around 22 megapixels of resolution, and no zoom has ever been made for 35mm that can exceed 21.3 megapixels over more than 15% of it's center frame.


nope, plenty of good glass will outresolve even higher res sensors
my low cost Tamron 70-200/2.8 easily produces moire problems on my D800e, backing up what MR sez below. The lens is cheap cuz it's not well-featured but it IS sharp, end to end and right to the corners.


Mikael Risedal said:


> I have seen moire in pictures with a regular lens and a crop sensor 24Mp, equal to 54 Mp at a 24x36mm sensor
> area, this means that the lens resolution are greater/ out resolves the sensor resolution.
> The best lenses today handle more than 54Mp .
> More pixels gives also better tonal transitions, less jaggies, easier to correct CA, crop etc etc





Radiating said:


> The point therefore of the 6D is that it has less than HALF the noise of the 5D Mark III and 60% better shadow recovery while having enough megapixels for any lens or just under.
> 
> The 6D really shines at super high ISO though, at ISO 16,600, the 5D Mark II has the same ISO performance as the 6D at 51,200. Thats 3 times better high ISO, in addition to the 2 times less noise at low and medium ISO.
> 
> ...



+1
all good things over the 5d2 and even 5d3, depending on your requirements


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## verysimplejason (Jan 12, 2013)

kbmelb said:


> Why I am not excited about 6D even though IQ seems to be quite good;
> 
> Times used Center Focus point in the last 2 year: 0x
> 
> In fact I just picked a used 1DsIII to be a back up to my 5DIII. A lot of what I shoot is in very low light environments with moving subjects. These shoots even give my 5DIII fits so I decided to sell my 5DII and 1DsII and get the 1DsIII. If the III's AF is at least as good as the II's I'll be very happy.



You don't need 6D. It's 5D3.


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## hemidesign (Jan 12, 2013)

I got 3.. LOL


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## x-vision (Jan 12, 2013)

hemidesign said:


> I got 3.. LOL



You _*ARE*_ serious about the 6D 8).


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## J.R. (Jan 14, 2013)

I've been using the 7D as a 2nd body but am seriously considering selling it and buying a 6D instead simply for the IQ. Love the FF and because I don't make very large prints, I can forego the 1.6 magnification of the 7D. 

At least I am excited about the 6D


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## Pitbullo (Jan 14, 2013)

poias said:


> Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.



I am not excited about the 6D, even though I might end up buying one in a year or so. Depending on what´s avaliable. How come I´m not excited? Well, I dont think they built the camera to be as good as it could be. As a tool, reviews on its own it is probably very ver capable. Looking at it compared to other cameras, not much so. It cost a shedload of money, and still my Rebel has a faster flash sync speed. Also, the VF is not 100%. Outside the 5D2 (discontinued) is it the only dSLR without 100%? And the shutter, with maximum speed of 1/4000. Why? They already have the shutter in 5D3, why not use this? It has a silent mode, like 6D, and can do 1/8000. Using this in another camera model would only make it cheaper (bigger production numbers).
Inferior autofocus, poor weather sealing, all is OK. If we need better here we got the 5D3. The VF and sync speed is to me clearly made to make it worse, to make it fit in a gap in the market, instead of making the camera as good as it can be. 
I dont know... because from what I see, the 6D performs great, with IQ second to none. And that quite annoys me, because if I bought it now it would be a great companion, but back in my head I´d always hear the voice saying it could have, and should have, been a little bit better specced. 
The top models should distance themselves from the cheap models by way way better specs, not by making the cheaper models deliberately worse. (does that make sense?) 
Anyway, as a hobbyist, I might end up with the 6D some day, due to not wanting to spend endless amount of money on a camera body. Walking straight in to Canons trap 
Oh, BTW, I do love my Rebel!


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## eyeland (Jan 14, 2013)

I am still trying to find a shop that will let me play with 60D/7D/6D head to head (or body to body) without much luck 
Some optimistic part of my brain is still entertaining the belief that the non-X-type outer point AF points on the 6D are as good as the X-type points on the 60D or better.
The fear of inferior AF is the only thing that keeps me from being very serious about the 6D


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## Marsu42 (Jan 14, 2013)

eyeland said:


> Some optimistic part of my brain is still entertaining the belief that the non-X-type outer point AF points on the 6D are as good as the X-type points on the 60D or better.



Hope dies last  ... non-x sensors are prone to hunting if they cannot detect a pattern, and on the 6d they are only rated up to +0.5lv. But that really only matters if you have big aperture lenses like f2.8 and larger.

But how often did you really use the outer af points? If you use Lightroom, find out for yourself: Install the ExifMeta plugin, read the "selected af points" field from the files and have a look at the metadata panel!


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## Hobby Shooter (Jan 15, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> eyeland said:
> 
> 
> > Some optimistic part of my brain is still entertaining the belief that the non-X-type outer point AF points on the 6D are as good as the X-type points on the 60D or better.
> ...


That sounds great, I've been thinking about how to be able to see the focus points in LR. Where can I download that plugin? Is it Adobe themselves that provide it?

thanks
J


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## JerryBruck (Jan 15, 2013)

@Marsu42 & Hobby Shooter -- You don't need Adobe for this, Canon's free "ZoomBrowser" which comes with DPP and the rest, will show these points and the selected one in red: while viewing full screen in "zoom mode," click the View tab on top and select "Show Auto Focus Points". Remember that the selected point will often appear in an odd place if you re-composed after locking focus.


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## eyeland (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up on checking AF point usage! 
I for one actually do use a few of the outer points alot..


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## Marsu42 (Jan 15, 2013)

JerryBruck said:


> You don't need Adobe for this, Canon's free "ZoomBrowser" which comes with DPP and the rest, will show these points and the selected one in red



... but does it give you the stats like LR+ExifMeta, like the number of centerpoint-only shots over your whole collection?


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## Hobby Shooter (Jan 16, 2013)

JerryBruck said:


> @Marsu42 & Hobby Shooter -- You don't need Adobe for this, Canon's free "ZoomBrowser" which comes with DPP and the rest, will show these points and the selected one in red: while viewing full screen in "zoom mode," click the View tab on top and select "Show Auto Focus Points". Remember that the selected point will often appear in an odd place if you re-composed after locking focus.


Ah, thanks for the info, but as my workflow isn't the most effective or professional I still would like to sort of have it all in one place. Guess also because I'm lazy


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## Hobby Shooter (Jan 16, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> JerryBruck said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need Adobe for this, Canon's free "ZoomBrowser" which comes with DPP and the rest, will show these points and the selected one in red
> ...


Marsu, is it the Rob Cole plugin you are talking about? If so I will download and check it out. Thanks in advance.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 16, 2013)

Hobby Shooter said:


> Marsu, is it the Rob Cole plugin you are talking about? If so I will download and check it out. Thanks in advance.



Yup, that's it - but don't select too many metadata fields to add because the plugin writes the data as plain text into the LR db and and thus the db size can go up a lot (there is no option to remove the fields afterwards).


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## Hobby Shooter (Jan 16, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Hobby Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu, is it the Rob Cole plugin you are talking about? If so I will download and check it out. Thanks in advance.
> ...


Ah thanks, will have a look.


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## J.R. (Jan 17, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Hobby Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu, is it the Rob Cole plugin you are talking about? If so I will download and check it out. Thanks in advance.
> ...



Thanks for the heads up! I installed it today. Pretty interesting


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## eyeland (Jan 17, 2013)

Very usable information, could someone point me towards a list or repository of LR plugs?


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm loving the 6D's ability to be controlled wirelessly as it allows me to explore creative options and setups when I only have myself available as a model.

I did the following yesterday, 135L at f/2 (which at this distance the depth of field is truly tiny), but focus is nailed plus I could adjust lighting while staying in position with my iPad. Very, very cool!




I Believe I Can Fly by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott, on Flickr


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## iP337 (Feb 7, 2013)

Pitbullo said:


> poias said:
> 
> 
> > Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.
> ...



You make good points. I agree more or less, though I am a bit excited about the 6D and plan to get one. I think it has great potential (with magic lantern) and has great value for it's price. I hated the 5D2 because it was overpriced, and I prefer to think of this as Canon trying to make good on that; the 5D2 was always worth $1500 and this is just the 5D2 with some of today's advances (noise ratios and video codecs mostly) for the price it should have been the whole time. 

The real reason for the 6D of course is that Nikon made the D600 and Canon knew that the 5D2 wouldn't stand a chance against it and it would grab that huge chunk of the market share the 5D2 was entitled to. So they made an updated 5D2 with just enough upgrades to keep Nikon from taking all the sales but at the same time not take 5D3 sales. But like I said, I prefer to see it as Canon making up for selling essentially the same thing a few months ago for an outrageously inflated price


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## xps (Feb 8, 2013)

I just returned from an meeting of our local photoclub and I am a little bit dissatisfied.
Three members bought an 6D and we compared the pics. And they are really different. They took the same lens to shoot equal macro photos. The IQ is visible different. One cam had obiously more noise >400, the other one´s IQ was visibly more flat (color and contrast).
The owners of the 6D will tra to send it to Canon to optimize the IQ.

In my eyes it ist dissatisfying, if you spend 2000€ and a lot of time in choosing the "right" camera. And then it is just fortune if you get an goog model or not. 
Sorry, but I had to say this.


p.s.: There is one person owning an brand new Nikon 5200. There is an really good idea in showing the aperture and speed by making it graphically visible on the display.


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## PoulStaugaard (Feb 9, 2013)

xps said:


> I just returned from an meeting of our local photoclub and I am a little bit dissatisfied.
> Three members bought an 6D and we compared the pics. And they are really different. They took the same lens to shoot equal macro photos. The IQ is visible different. One cam had obiously more noise >400, the other one´s IQ was visibly more flat (color and contrast).
> The owners of the 6D will tra to send it to Canon to optimize the IQ.
> 
> ...


It is very unlikely that the cameras are at fault for the difference. I'm quite happy with mine.

As to whether Canon deliberately made it a lesser camera than they could have, yes and no: They naturally made it to a specific cost, that would allow them to manufacture and sell it with a healthy margin, in a way that doesn't hurt the sale of the 5D III too much. Shaving a third off the cost of the 5D III means a lot of cost cutting. The only compromise I disagree with is the smaller screen, it looks like they could have fitted the 3.2" unit. If dropping the GPS could have paid for that, they should have. But they clearly see it as the enthusiast traveller's camera, and as such it does make perfect sense.


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