# 7D + 50mm 1.8



## FunkyJam (Oct 4, 2011)

Hey,

I just bought a 7D + 50mm 1.8 and I immediately started shooting with it but I've encountered a problem. So, I've read that if I want to create the cinematic effect I always have to set the shutter speed the double of the frames I'm using (eg if I use 30 frames I should set shutter speed at 1/60). That's what I did. Since I want to create that beautiful bokeh effect I have the aperture at 1.8 but the thing is, there's just too much light and the image is all white. I'm doing anything wrong or is it like that?

Help me out please!


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## akiskev (Oct 4, 2011)

I suppose you shoot with iso 100. 
You're not doing anything wrong. Just buy an ND filter!! SOmething between ND2-ND8 should do the trick but you should experiment with them yourself!


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## Hesbehindyou (Oct 4, 2011)

akiskev said:


> I suppose you shoot with iso 100.
> You're not doing anything wrong. Just buy an ND filter!! Something between ND2-ND8 should do the trick but you should experiment with them yourself!



It's worth pointing out that variable ND filters are available, so one doesn't have to keep swapping different strengths.

Also, there are good technical reasons why cameras are unable to offer very low ISO values - it's not the camera makers being stupid!


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## pelebel (Oct 4, 2011)

Maybe you're just shooting in a too well lit spot too!!!

You might wanna try a faster shutter speed too, images with just be cleaner...


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## awinphoto (Oct 4, 2011)

pelebel said:


> Maybe you're just shooting in a too well lit spot too!!!
> 
> You might wanna try a faster shutter speed too, images with just be cleaner...



Faster shutters will lead to a choppy look on video... try neutral density filters... If you dont have any, try a simple polarizing filter... It knocks down 2 stops of light right there... It also can make for a more interesting scene. Also shoot ISO 100.


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## quququ1 (Oct 4, 2011)

Also, I suggest shooting at f2.8 for 50 f1.8, it's sharpest at f2.8 and will allow less light to pass through.


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## rowanlamb (Oct 5, 2011)

quququ1 said:


> Also, I suggest shooting at f2.8 for 50 f1.8, it's sharpest at f2.8 and will allow less light to pass through.



Sound advice - your out-of-focus areas look even better when the area _in_ focus is super-sharp, which it won't be at f/1.8. A good start, that ^


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## Jedifarce (Oct 5, 2011)

FunkyJam said:


> Hey,
> 
> I just bought a 7D + 50mm 1.8 and I immediately started shooting with it but I've encountered a problem. So, I've read that if I want to create the cinematic effect I always have to set the shutter speed the double of the frames I'm using (eg if I use 30 frames I should set shutter speed at 1/60).



Shane Hurlbut recommends shooting at 1/50 for 30fps to take the sharpness off video. 



> That's what I did. Since I want to create that beautiful bokeh effect I have the aperture at 1.8 but the thing is,



Filming at 1.8 is really difficult and kind of unnecessary unless you're doing portraits, most directors will film at 2.8 or F/4. Any small movement of you or your subject will throw your focus off completely. However, if you're desperate for light and filiming at night then a 1.8 could be your best friend. It all depends on your ISO and shutter speeds, if you can't get the light you need from lower shutter speeds and higher ISO setting then you need a lens with a low F/stop. 



> there's just too much light and the image is all white. I'm doing anything wrong or is it like that?



You need to provide more information here, what time of the day were you filming - day or night, where were you fiiming - inside or outside, under what lighting conditions, what ISO were you using, what was your AWB setting. 

Just to let you know, with a 1.8 it lets in a lot of light, if you're filming under bright lights or the sun unless you increase the f/stop on your 1.8, you need to bring down your ISO or increase the shutter speed to compensate. Of course ND filters and polarizers work to keep your ISO and shutter speeds and f/stop where you'd like it to be.

Whenever I shoot photography of landscape with a 28mm 2.8 under the glare of the sun, I will usually have an x4 ND filter, increase the f/stop to f8 or f11 with the ISO set around 100.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 5, 2011)

Jedifarce said:


> > That's what I did. Since I want to create that beautiful bokeh effect I have the aperture at 1.8 but the thing is,
> 
> 
> Filming at 1.8 is really difficult and kind of unnecessary unless you're doing portraits, most directors will film at 2.8 or F/4.



Are those 'most directors' shooting with 7D's or with 5DII's? If the latter, keep in mind that in terms of DoF for the same subject framing, f/1.8 on a 7D is the same as f/2.8 on a 5DII.


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## Jedifarce (Oct 5, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Are those 'most directors' shooting with 7D's or with 5DII's? If the latter, keep in mind that in terms of DoF for the same subject framing, f/1.8 on a 7D is the same as f/2.8 on a 5DII.



I'd say directors Shane Hurlbut and Philip Bloom pretty much know what they are talking about when it comes to filming with their canon DSLR's.

As for depth of field, it's meaningless if you can't keep your subject in focus.


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## jawsborne (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm new here and really excited to find this cool and very active forum! 

I've been shooting photos for some time and now want to jump into the realm of DSLR video. I've yet to buy a body capable of shooting video. I'm having trouble deciding on the 7D or 5D2. I've wanted a FF for a while for photos but not sure if I should spend the extra money. But maybe I'll just wait to see if Canon comes out with something new.

(didn't mean to hijack your thread FunkyJam) 

Thanks.



neuroanatomist said:


> Are those 'most directors' shooting with 7D's or with 5DII's? If the latter, keep in mind that in terms of DoF for the same subject framing, f/1.8 on a 7D is the same as f/2.8 on a 5DII.



This statement totally blew me away! really?? I was fully aware of the difference in what the focal length looks like when comparing a FF to a crop. But the aperature??


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## AGMedia (Oct 7, 2011)

jawsborne said:


> This statement totally blew me away! really?? I was fully aware of the difference in what the focal length looks like when comparing a FF to a crop. But the aperature??



I don't know that his numbers are precisely correct, but in general, the concept he's conveying is correct.


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## AGMedia (Oct 7, 2011)

FunkyJam said:


> Hey,
> 
> I just bought a 7D + 50mm 1.8 and I immediately started shooting with it but I've encountered a problem. So, I've read that if I want to create the cinematic effect I always have to set the shutter speed the double of the frames I'm using (eg if I use 30 frames I should set shutter speed at 1/60). That's what I did. Since I want to create that beautiful bokeh effect I have the aperture at 1.8 but the thing is, there's just too much light and the image is all white. I'm doing anything wrong or is it like that?
> 
> Help me out please!



Your combination ( 7D & 1.8 ) is capable of producing some powerful video results. Just treat that 1.8 very gently -- it's not know for its durability.

The neutral density filter advice is correct. If you want to save money, buy simple ND filters -- from memory I think, think, the one to start out with for daylight shots is the 4 stop filter. I use a variable ND, and it cost much more. It's the difference between thirty bucks and two hundred.

Stopping your nifty-fifty down to 2.8 is also good advice. After you get your ND filter and shoot something outside, the difference in sharpness between 1.8 and 2.8 will be shockingly apparent.

The "cinema" look on your 7D is shutter at 1/50th at 1080/24p. But, don't get too chained down by the "shutter rules." Experiment, be free, be bold. The shutter speed isn't what's creating a "cinematic" look -- it's your frame rate (60p, 30p, 24p) that has the most obvious effect. 24p is the "movie" frame rate, 30p is the TV frame rate, and 60p (at 720) is the HD cable news network look frame rate.

I think someone in this thread asked if the 5D or 7D is being used more for productions. The honest answer is they're both being used -- and everyone who's using them both is waiting for the 5Dm3. Currently, either is a good option relative to HDSLR video. For example, Philip Bloom, the guru-extraordinaire of HDSLR video, his favorite camera is the 5D. However, according to him, almost everything he shot for George Lucas on "Red Tails" was done on a 7D because you can mount a PL lens on a 7D -- but can't on a 5D.

So -- can you use your nifty-fifty and 7D to make a feature film? Absolutely yes. Your issue isn't lack of equipment, it's lack of experience. Learn, learn, learn, practice, practice, practice, test, test, test...... Your only barriers are your skills and imagination.


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## Jedifarce (Oct 8, 2011)

AGMedia said:


> The "cinema" look on your 7D is shutter at 1/50th at 1080/24p. But, don't get too chained down by the "shutter rules." Experiment, be free, be bold. The shutter speed isn't what's creating a "cinematic" look -- it's your frame rate (60p, 30p, 24p) that has the most obvious effect. 24p is the "movie" frame rate, 30p is the TV frame rate, and 60p (at 720) is the HD cable news network look frame rate.



I would like to add that recording in 24p is really a bad option for any quick movement, it creates motion blur because you're simply not taking in enough information. I generally film at 30p for those times, and with 30p you can slow down the footage in post about 15% without ruining the overall look. 60p would be great if it were 1920x1080, which I suppose can be cropped in post.


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## AGMedia (Oct 8, 2011)

Jedifarce said:


> I would like to add that recording in 24p is really a bad option for any quick movement, it creates motion blur because you're simply not taking in enough information. I generally film at 30p for those times, and with 30p you can slow down the footage in post about 15% without ruining the overall look. 60p would be great if it were 1920x1080, which I suppose can be cropped in post.



Yes. And this must be the reason that all Hollywood films of the past one hundred years (all delivered at 24p) have avoided "any quick movement."

Understanding how to use 24p relates to basic cinematography.

If your point is that 30p is more dummy-proof than 24p, well, to a very limited extent, yes. 60p is by far the most dummy-proof frame rate. 

Also, when I came in here to respond I noticed in an earlier post you indicated that Shane Hurlbut recommends 1/50th shutter for 30p. This is incorrect. His point relates to simulating film camera shutter, and you vaguely accomplish this with a video camera by doubling the frame rate. So, for 24 frames per second your shutter would be 1/48. However, Canon DSLRs don't do 1/48 -- so you set them to the closest -- 1/50.

This doesn't apply to 30p, as it has no relationship to over a hundred years of film cameras -- that have been filming at 24p since Thomas Edison. 30p is American television -- the soap opera look. Set your shutter to whatever you want at 30p -- because simulating a film camera shutter at 30p is pure fantasy.

For slow motion -- shoot at 60p. 30p doesn't give you enough room for anything meaningful.


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## Jedifarce (Oct 9, 2011)

AGMedia said:


> Also, when I came in here to respond I noticed in an earlier post you indicated that Shane Hurlbut recommends 1/50th shutter for 30p. This is incorrect. His point relates to simulating film camera shutter, and you vaguely accomplish this with a video camera by doubling the frame rate. So, for 24 frames per second your shutter would be 1/48. However, Canon DSLRs don't do 1/48 -- so you set them to the closest -- 1/50.



Wrong. I'd love to know where you receive your information, perhaps you can provide a reference for us to check the validity of your statement here. It's very common knowledge that Shane Hurlbut recommends the 30fps over 24. All one needs to do is go over to the Red Centre Podcast, titled 'Red Day & Shane Hurlbut' and hear his words for yourself. To save you the trouble I'll quote directly some of the statements made on that Podcast - 

- When asked about 24p, "*24p is dead to me...The cocktail is shooting at 30p and then twixtoring to 24p."* Shane Hurlbut

- When asked what shutter speed he uses, *"I use a 40th or a 50th of a shutter, you never go above that. Anytime you go above that you start looking like video."* Shane Hurlbut

- When asked if he used a 1/60th shutter speed when filming at 30p, *"No, oh boy, no, 60th is a recipe for disaster. That's instantly taking your beautiful 5D that gives you filmic images and turning into a panasonic 3700."* Shane Hurlbut

Perhaps, a bit less arrogance and a bit more research on your part AGMedia, you might learn something.



> This doesn't apply to 30p, as it has no relationship to over a hundred years of film cameras -- that have been filming at 24p since Thomas Edison. 30p is American television -- the soap opera look. Set your shutter to whatever you want at 30p -- because simulating a film camera shutter at 30p is pure fantasy.



You'll have to let the members here know when you've garnered the credentials equal to that of Shane Hurlbut or when you've put out a major motion picture or two as he has. 

By the way, have you heard of the upcoming motion picture titled, 'Act of Valor' filmed by Shane Hurlbut on a Canon 5D shot at 30p? It helps to stop living in a bubble. 



> For slow motion -- shoot at 60p. 30p doesn't give you enough room for anything meaningful.



I never mentioned anything about slow motion, I specifically cited slowing down the video, there's a difference. You'd know that if you've ever edited videos. If I really wanted slow motion footage I'd buy a RED camera which is capable of 100fps or greater.


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## AGMedia (Oct 9, 2011)

Jedifarce said:


> It helps to stop living in a bubble.



Kid, you have no idea to whom you're speaking, and if you're arguing against 24p -- you're the one in a bubble. "Twixtoring to 24p" may have made sense prior to the 24p patch on the 5D, but it makes no sense for general purposes (only for very specific situations), and certainly doesn't significantly increase motion capabilities.

If you need references for the 1/48th shutter concept -- I can only conclude that you work at Burger King.

"Act of Valor" was filmed with film, 5D, and 7D cameras. There wasn't one single camera nor one single frame rate. 30p was the highest frame rate available on the 5Dm2.

And, if this is the level of discussion on this forum -- I'm outta here.


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## Jedifarce (Oct 10, 2011)

AGMedia said:


> Kid, you have no idea to whom you're speaking,



An individual not terribly bright as it would seem. 



> and if you're arguing against 24p -- you're the one in a bubble. "Twixtoring to 24p" may have made sense prior to the 24p patch on the 5D, but it makes no sense for general purposes (only for very specific situations), and certainly doesn't significantly increase motion capabilities.



Goodness, is this how you're attempting to spin the arguement? Let us not forget that you were under the misunderstanding that I did not have any comprehension with doubling the shutter speed in regards to frame rate. My statement still stands which is that Shane Hurlbut films at 30p with 1/50 shutter, the fact you were ignorant of this is your fault not mine. 



> If you need references for the 1/48th shutter concept -- I can only conclude that you work at Burger King.



Oh dear, is this truly the best you can do to sway the masses to your side? How sad. 



> "Act of Valor" was filmed with film, 5D, and 7D cameras. There wasn't one single camera nor one single frame rate. 30p was the highest frame rate available on the 5Dm2.



Once again, please cite your information instead of spouting nonsense. I gave you a website with a podcast proving my points, while you are reduced to sticking your empty head in the ground in a lame attempt to hide from the facts. 



> And, if this is the level of discussion on this forum -- I'm outta here.



If you don't come armed with the facts and your views are simply a mountain of lies, don't get upset when people call you on them.


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## KBX500 (Oct 10, 2011)

Jedifarce, 

Do you work in this field ? 
Fulltime ? 
Is it a paid position ?
What is it that you do ?
How many years of experience do you have ?
And dare I ask, how old you are ?


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## Jedifarce (Oct 10, 2011)

KBX500 said:


> Jedifarce,
> 
> Do you work in this field ?
> Fulltime ?
> ...



Hmmm, have I made any errorenous points you wish to dispute? Otherwise none of that information is pertinent to the discussion. 

The sad fact you feel the need to resort to these obvious desperate measures demonstrates your inability to debate effectively in the arena of ideas.


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## KBX500 (Oct 11, 2011)

They are just simple questions.
We all want to know more about the 
person we should be worshipping.
Surely one of such omnipotence can't
be afraid of simple questions.


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## pdirestajr (Oct 11, 2011)

This thread has gone down an absurd path.


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## J Live (Oct 25, 2011)

Since you're looking for a cinematic look, my advice would be to shoot 1080p24 at 1/50 with variable ND filters. I think 'twixtering' to 24 will just cause you frustration, watching progress bars and filling Hard drives - just start shooting (and editing) and making mistakes and learning about DOF & camera movement, sequences etc. If you want to get that extra 5% quality bump later on then start seeking more advanced advice about work flow. Shane Hurlbut's work is being blown up to be shown in theatres, even 1% improvement in quality means a lot to him because of that fact, which is also why he uses >$10K lenses. Don't try and aim for anything near that level right out of the gate.

The Prolost forum article (someone mentioned here) on 'flattening your 5D' about adjusting your picture profile from the default settings is very important to do before you shoot anything really important. 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with 'not' shooting wide open as some advise here. You sort of have decide for each shot what you want as far as depth of field and go from there - in some cases you may want less than an inch of focus to draw the eye to a certain object on screen - so 1.8 may be the best choice for that particular shot, whereas f11 (deep focus shots) may be better for another shot/scene from a storytelling POV. Decide on your DOF then set your other parameters for proper exposure around that - which generally means (since your shutter speed is locked) either ND filters if you're outside in bright daylight or adjusting ISO inside.

As a small aside, slagging 30p as being 'American TV soap opera.' is simply incorrect - the P stands for progressive and TV has, until quite recently, always been interlaced - so that was 60 fields per second, not 30p - big visual difference. When pro cameras started being able to shoot 30p it was a big deal in the industry - I was almost as happy about the death of interlace as the death of the 4x3 aspect ratio. I shoot almost everything in 1080p30 (29.97) because I work in TV and that's the delivery format required by networks and I often have to incorporate existing footage and motion graphics so conforming from 24p to 29.97 is not a 'good time had by all' - But if I were to work on shorts, features or music videos i'd shoot those projects in 24p.

Good luck


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## tnelson42345 (Nov 16, 2011)

So help me out on this please. A slower shutter will equal more of a film look? Or is it just that the sweet spot is around 1/50? Can the shutter be to slow for a film look?


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## FunkyJam (Nov 16, 2011)

J live, thanks a lot for your answer. There's just one thing that is bothering me. Why must I (Yeah I know it's not a must, I can try whatever I want  ) shoot at 1/50 when shooting with 24p.

What's does it exactly do? Thanks in advance


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## Jettatore (Nov 17, 2011)

Because that is the standard look for a 24 fps without moving into special effects of a high shutter speed saving private ryan hellzone or a low shutter speed, cars racing around with light trails falling off the back tokyo drift.


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## rmblack (Nov 17, 2011)

also keep in mind if you are shooting with indoor lighting at 1/50th in North America there will be flickering in your footage due to the electricity cylcing at 60hz. (fluorescent or mercury vapor lights) this is because your shutter is out of sync with the electricity 50vs60. so yes, solve it by shooting at 1/60th in these conditions, or 120 etc. if you're going for a specific look. As background, I film freerunning/parkour with my 5DmkII and personally, prefer shooting at 1/125th vs. 1/50th for the action. Shooting at a higher shutter speed is also necessary for "twixtoring," although I don't recommend twixtoring any of the footage from the 5d as, discussed earlier, it's limited to 30p. But shutter speed affects video the same way as photos, if you think about it its just creating 24/30/60/x stills and putting them together in a 1 second time window. good luck with the filming, and if you do try to twixtor with your 60p footage, make sure you are shooting over 1/500th shutter speed and have a plain background (sky, out of focus, etc), and don't allow your subject to move their arm across their body. difference would be - a decent usable twixtor - guy walking towards the camera with arms at sides, no overlap of body. bad twixtor - guy walking past the camera left to right, a lot of overlap of swinging arms. If you visualize your scene in 2D, it is a lot easier to determine how your footage will turn out. I always try to focus on the end goal when I film, and especially with high action shots like freerunning its hard to get things right consistently. good luck!


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## rmblack (Nov 17, 2011)

Jedifarce said:


> AGMedia said:
> 
> 
> > > If you need references for the 1/48th shutter concept -- I can only conclude that you work at Burger King.
> ...



haha I've gotta say, I was almost swayed. It did make my laugh out loud and get me some funny looks in the cafe though  A rough night on CR it seems lol


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## tnelson42345 (Nov 17, 2011)

Should you keep your shutter the same for the entire film? Or should it change from scene to scene?


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## rmblack (Nov 17, 2011)

It should change if you are planning on a different look. Keeping things consistent is good, but sometimes you want to give more impact to a shot, like slow motion. HDSLRs don't shoot over 60fps, so it requires a high shutter speed if you plan on twixtoring your footage in post (which would be required for anything slower than half speed or whatever percent of 100 24/60 is  ) hope that helps? maybe someone with more experience shooting will comment


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## pakosouthpark (Nov 24, 2011)

Jedifarce said:


> 60p would be great if it were 1920x1080, which I suppose can be cropped in post.



that would be soooo good for a 5d mk3!


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