# Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin



## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Feb 20, 2018)

Hi everyone,

I've just spent a lot six+ weeks deeply reviewing (and comparing) the Sony a7R3. 

Text Review: http://bit.ly/a7R3review
Video Review: http://bit.ly/a7R3Sony 
Video Playlist: http://bit.ly/SonyA7r3da 
Image Gallery: http://bit.ly/Sonya7R3ig 

Bottom line: I'm adding one alongside my 5D Mark IV for both personal use and reviews. Moving ahead I'm shooting/reviewing with a 5D Mark IV/80D and a7R3/a6500 kit.


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## Sarpedon (Feb 20, 2018)

Excellent review that jives with my own experience (though I switched, rather than supplemented, my kit). It was the removal of the interchangeable focus screen on the 6D Mark II (not its pedestrian dynamic range) that prompted me to look elsewhere and I now find that all of my EF mount lenses, which are either manual focus (like my favorite, the Zeiss 28 f/2) or wide-aperture primes (like the 85L II) actually work better on the Sony. And I'm continually surprised at how _fun_ this camera is to use, which I couldn't say of my time, albeit limited, with the A7R II.

I made this comment elsewhere but I think the best way to look at the size question with the full frame Sonys is that they are 'modular': significantly smaller and a somewhat lighter if you're using something like the FE 35 f/2.8, but the advantage disappears if you're using conventional big glass like an 85 1.4 or 70-200 2.8. Indeed, you pay an ergonomic penalty if you don't use a grip. (And personally, I like the RRS plate instead of the grip unless I'm using an extremely large lens or I'm on a shoot.)


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## bwud (Feb 20, 2018)

Sarpedon said:


> And I'm continually surprised at how _fun_ this camera is to use, which I couldn't say of my time, albeit limited, with the A7R II.



Agreed. I describe the A7Rii based on ~2.5 years of use as beta hardware. The third iteration is ready for prime time, it’s a night and day difference.



Sarpedon said:


> (And personally, I like the RRS plate instead of the grip unless I'm using an extremely large lens or I'm on a shoot.)



I used an L-bracket with my rII to get another finger on, but picked up the vertical grip for the riii and haven’t taken it off, even with using something light and compact like my 25mm. It’s substantially more comfortable.


My A7Rii foray was experimental, neither intended as a supplement or a replacement to my Canon kit. With a7riii it is feeling more like a replacement, especially now that I finally have a longer lens option (100-400).


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## BeenThere (Feb 20, 2018)

Dustin,
Which EF lens adapter did you like best. I didn’t see the Metabones mentioned.


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## YellowJersey (Feb 21, 2018)

Hi Dustin, 

Thanks for the review. Have you encountered any issues with the so-called "star eater" phenomenon due spacial filtering noise reduction for exposures longer than 3.2 seconds? It removes stars mistaking them for noise Much was made about this issue on previous A7 models and it seems like the spacial filtering is still there but the "star eater" effect has drastically improved on the A7rIII. I've noticed that none of the reviewers I follow have mentioned it and was curious what you thought about the A7rIII for shooting the night sky. As one of the few reviewers that looks at coma for lenses, I thought you might be the right man to ask.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Feb 21, 2018)

YellowJersey said:


> Hi Dustin,
> 
> Thanks for the review. Have you encountered any issues with the so-called "star eater" phenomenon due spacial filtering noise reduction for exposures longer than 3.2 seconds? It removes stars mistaking them for noise Much was made about this issue on previous A7 models and it seems like the spacial filtering is still there but the "star eater" effect has drastically improved on the A7rIII. I've noticed that none of the reviewers I follow have mentioned it and was curious what you thought about the A7rIII for shooting the night sky. As one of the few reviewers that looks at coma for lenses, I thought you might be the right man to ask.



I looked hard for it, but it seems like that might have been a little overstated. Here's a 25 second comparison with the Tamron 15-30 VC (too long for real astro, as there is some movement, but I wanted to really try and make it happen).


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Feb 21, 2018)

Sarpedon said:


> Excellent review that jives with my own experience (though I switched, rather than supplemented, my kit). It was the removal of the interchangeable focus screen on the 6D Mark II (not its pedestrian dynamic range) that prompted me to look elsewhere and I now find that all of my EF mount lenses, which are either manual focus (like my favorite, the Zeiss 28 f/2) or wide-aperture primes (like the 85L II) actually work better on the Sony. And I'm continually surprised at how _fun_ this camera is to use, which I couldn't say of my time, albeit limited, with the A7R II.
> 
> I made this comment elsewhere but I think the best way to look at the size question with the full frame Sonys is that they are 'modular': significantly smaller and a somewhat lighter if you're using something like the FE 35 f/2.8, but the advantage disappears if you're using conventional big glass like an 85 1.4 or 70-200 2.8. Indeed, you pay an ergonomic penalty if you don't use a grip. (And personally, I like the RRS plate instead of the grip unless I'm using an extremely large lens or I'm on a shoot.)



It sounds like you felt the same way about the a7R2 as I did. It just didn't do a lot for me. The a7R3 is so much more fun to use.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Feb 21, 2018)

BeenThere said:


> Dustin,
> Which EF lens adapter did you like best. I didn’t see the Metabones mentioned.



I haven't used the Metabones 5th yet, but I do have a comparo planned with the Sigma MC-11. I used the IV with the a7R2, but it's focus system was downright primitive by comparison, so I kind of threw that experience out of consideration.


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## YellowJersey (Feb 21, 2018)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> YellowJersey said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Dustin,
> ...



Thanks! I don't see any difference between the two, either, other than the exposures seem a bit different, despite the fact that the settings were the same. This bodes well, as I recently switched from the 5DmkIII to the A7rIII, and am itching to get down to Writing On Stone Provincial Park in May to shoot the stars. Here's hoping my six year old laptop can handle stacking 10 42mp images without bursting into flames or, at the very least, without microwaving my keyboard hand. Thanks, mate!


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## Michael Clark (Feb 28, 2018)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> YellowJersey said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Dustin,
> ...



Could the movement of the star field due to the long exposure spread the light of dimmer stars over adjacent pixel wells which may prevent it being misinterpreted as noise like it might if it is only captured by a single pixel well?


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## Ian_of_glos (Mar 2, 2018)

Thank you for another set of excellent reviews. As always, your reviews are well presented and carefully constructed.
As a Canon 5D mk 4 owner I would be interested to hear why you have kept your Canon and why you still use it in addition to your Sony A7Riii. Do you use the Sony for some applications and the Canon for others, and if so which are the most significant factors in determining which system you are going to choose for any particular shoot?
I accept that the Sony A7Riii is an excellent camera, but overall I am very happy with my 5D mk4. So what I am really trying to decide is whether the Sony is so much better than the Canon that it worth going through all the pain and expense of changing my camera system.


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## padam (Mar 2, 2018)

Check out Tyler Stalman's videos A7RII versus 5D IV 
and A9 review, most the problems fixed in the A9 applies to the A7RIII as well.


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## AlanF (Mar 2, 2018)

padam said:


> Check out Tyler Stalman's videos A7RII versus 5D IV
> and A9 review, most the problems fixed in the A9 applies to the A7RIII as well.



Thanks for the links to those interesting reviews. There is a big killer for me at the end of the A9 - dust on the sensor. The mirrorless sensors are not protected by the mirror so Tyler is scared of changing lenses during a shoot because of the amount of dust picked up which has spoilt many of his shoots, which he doesn't find with his 5DIV. And I have never had to have a sensor cleaned on mine or any of my other Canon bodies despite my frequent changing of TCs in the wild. Also, what surprised was that it was more difficult to lift shadows and easier to blow highlights with the A9 than with the 5DIV - the DR is worse in practice despite all the hype that Canon is bad.


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## ecqns (Mar 2, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Thanks for the links to those interesting reviews. There is a big killer for me at the end of the A9 - dust on the sensor. The mirrorless sensors are not protected by the mirror so Tyler is scared of changing lenses during a shoot because of the amount of dust picked up which has spoilt many of his shoots, which he doesn't find with his 5DIV.



I think being that worried about sensor dust is a little unnecessary, all you have to do is keep a little rocket blower in your bag if you need it. Since the sensor is so close to the mount you can get a good look at it if you need to. As opposed to a DSLR sensor deep in the mirror box which is harder to reach and check for dust. And anyone saying dust can spoil a shoot is being a little dramatic.


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## BillB (Mar 2, 2018)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Thank you for another set of excellent reviews. As always, your reviews are well presented and carefully constructed.
> As a Canon 5D mk 4 owner I would be interested to hear why you have kept your Canon and why you still use it in addition to your Sony A7Riii. Do you use the Sony for some applications and the Canon for others, and if so which are the most significant factors in determining which system you are going to choose for any particular shoot?
> I accept that the Sony A7Riii is an excellent camera, but overall I am very happy with my 5D mk4. So what I am really trying to decide is whether the Sony is so much better than the Canon that it worth going through all the pain and expense of changing my camera system.



How is the 5DIV holding you back?


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## tron (Mar 2, 2018)

I bought a 40D Nov 2007. It was my only DSLR until June 2009 when it was stolen.
Then, I bought my 5DII (Jun 2009) and sold it Feb 2014.
It was my only DSLR until Nov 2012 when I bought a 5DIII (and I continued using it in parallel afterwards).
So for many years I was exchanging lenses at the outside without having any dust issues.
The same with the rest of my DSLRs. No dust issues. True I was not a pro but still I shot around 20K with my 5DII and the lens exchange was very frequent (16-35, 24-105, 70-200, 300, TS-E17 for example)

By the way right now my mostly used camera is a 7D2 with about 3 times this number of 5DII shots and I do not need to have the sensor cleaned.

I like it this way


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## Ian_of_glos (Mar 2, 2018)

BillB said:


> Ian_of_glos said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for another set of excellent reviews. As always, your reviews are well presented and carefully constructed.
> ...


It is not. I am delighted with my 5D Mk4 in every way and in many ways it exceeds my expectations. The problem is that I read review after review saying how much better the A7Riii is and how Canon is lagging behind the competition. I am not sure whether to take these reviews seriously, or even if the differences are that significant - hence my original question to Dustin.


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## bwud (Mar 2, 2018)

For another anecdote, excluding film cameras I’ve owned (all purchased near market entry): Olympus E-1, Canon 350D, Canon 40D, Canon 5Dii, Canon 7D,and Canon 5Diii. I still own the 5Diii. I’ve also owned Sony A7Rii (my first mirrorless interchangeable lens camera) and currently own a Sony A7Riii.

Of them, aside from blowing air and the ultrasonic function, I’ve only cleaned the 40D and 5Diii, using sensor swabs from photographic solutions. The 5Dii was serviced, and I believe canon cleaned its sensor then.

I used the first Sony for more than two years using only prime lenses. Suffice it to say I changed them a lot. Occasionally I’d get dust, but it was nothing a combination of the vibration feature and an air rocket couldn’t manage. I started using zoom lenses with the A7Riii, and while I do change them in the field I’ve yet to experience unmanageable dust.

In my experience, the lack of a mirror as protection of the sensor is a non-issue. YMMV.



Ian_of_glos said:


> BillB said:
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> > Ian_of_glos said:
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i wouldn’t put much concern on reviews suggesting any one modern camera is leaps and bounds behind another, especially in class competitors. 

If you were to get an a7riii, you’d gain some things (zoom in the viewfinder, IS in the body, maybe some video perks, etc), and you’d lose some things (optical viewfinder, arguably more comfortable body, DPAF for video, etc). A reasonable person probably won’t trade them based on overall performance at the camera level. It will come to things like personal preference (comfort holding, comfort with backlit screens), the overall ecosystem (available native lenses, lights), etc.


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## BillB (Mar 2, 2018)

Ian_of_glos said:


> BillB said:
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## AlanF (Mar 2, 2018)

ecqns said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the links to those interesting reviews. There is a big killer for me at the end of the A9 - dust on the sensor. The mirrorless sensors are not protected by the mirror so Tyler is scared of changing lenses during a shoot because of the amount of dust picked up which has spoilt many of his shoots, which he doesn't find with his 5DIV.
> ...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPP-2c7sDYA

Play the video from 8:50 to 10:35. Starts with: "A huge thing that that nobody talks about that much is sensor dust .....
My inclination is to take seriously a reviewer who sees an actual phenomenon and describes it in depth.


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## ecqns (Mar 2, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Play the video from 8:50 to 10:35. Starts with: "A huge thing that that nobody talks about that much is sensor dust .....
> My inclination is to take seriously a reviewer who sees an actual phenomenon and describes it in depth.



Yeah dust can be a problem if you don't know what you are doing or don't take proper precautions. This is an image from my 5D in 2006 (the original) my 2nd DSLR, first day of a 2 week trip got a ton of dust from changing lenses in windy conditions by the water. The 5D wasn't a mirrorless camera, I didn't bring a rocket blower so I had to do a ton of spotting. Dust can get in any camera. I've used all sorts of Canon DSLRs and now 3 different Sonys and dust isn't any more or any less of an issue for me. I like that I can see the sensor now.


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## AlanF (Mar 2, 2018)

ecqns said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Play the video from 8:50 to 10:35. Starts with: "A huge thing that that nobody talks about that much is sensor dust .....
> ...



The Canon Integrated Cleaning System was introduced in 2006 - http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos_integrated_cleaning_system.do
Your original 5D, introduced in 2005, predated ICS. Further, the fluorine coating to repel dust wasn't introduced until the 5DII, and there have been subsequent modifications to prevent dust sticking. You original 5D is not a good example to cite for dust on a sensor since there have been tons of improvements in the last 13 years.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 2, 2018)

AlanF said:


> ecqns said:
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Perhaps, but it is certainly appropriate when discussing how much influence the presence of a mirror has on protecting a sensor, or the inset of a sensor within the body for that matter.

Those later improvements, which made a significant difference, are not unique to SLR.


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## ecqns (Mar 2, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> AlanF said:
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> > ecqns said:
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Right just like every other DSLR and Mirrorless has had sensor shake or something like it since then. Point is a mirror isn't going to protect your sensor all of the time. Seems like some are just reaching to find faults with non-Canon cameras.


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## AlanF (Mar 2, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> AlanF said:
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> > ecqns said:
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Of course they are not unique to SLR. It is pretty pointless, however, comparing the dust resistance of a state-of-the-art modern sensor with an ancient one to evaluate the modern mirrorless vs the modern mirror box, as is being done in the review. The mirror is protective against dust for the 5DIV vs A9, and that is the main point of Tyler.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 2, 2018)

AlanF said:


> 3kramd5 said:
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I’m willing to stipulate that it might be, since the mirror provides additional surfaces where dust can settle. However I’m also well aware that the mirror doesn’t prevent dust ingress into the compartment (it’s hardly a “tortuous path,” which is the terminology often used in the design of electronics where sand and dust are of concern), and that any dust in the compartment has a propensity to move, no matter the material lining the compartment, when the mirror actuates.

If a mirror offers protection, it’s unquantifiable without lab testing, but I’m betting marginal relative to other methods. Anecdotally, I found my mirrorless camera (sold my A7Rii when I bought a 1Dx) no more prone to dust than any SLR I’ve ever owned.


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## AlanF (Mar 3, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> AlanF said:
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A highly experienced professional who shoots both Sony and Canon states at length and with examples how his 5DIV has so much better dust resistance that it is the one factor that stops him going over completely to Sony as he needs to change lenses frequently in the field. I use a mirrorless for some of my shooting, an M5 following on from an M, and fortunately it would seem rarely change lenses out of doors and I have no problems with dust. I find his experience extremely useful as I have been thinking of having another system for nature photography and it's made me consider options and types of lenses for use outdoors. Anecdotal evidence evidence should remain what it is, anecdotal. Quantitative measurements are what I do for my living as a scientist, but I don't need means and standard deviations to choose between what I can see or don't see and doesn't need quantifying.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 3, 2018)

That’s fine, just so long as we’re clear that a professional’s experiences are no less anecdotal than anyone else’s. He asserts that the dust was there *because* of the lack of the mirror, but that’s merely conjecture on his part. He didn’t state that he changed lenses on his SLR at the same time as or under the same conditions as his A9.


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## AlanF (Mar 3, 2018)

He's not writing a scientific paper, he's offering advice based on his experience, and I shall take that advice into consideration in my choice of gear suitable for my purposes.


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## Talys (Mar 3, 2018)

Dustin,

Thanks for such a thorough and well-written review. I'm curious: what do you find as the autofocus speed difference between adapted and native lens on A7R3 using the MC-11?

Thanks!


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## dak723 (Mar 4, 2018)

AlanF said:


> He's not writing a scientific paper, he's offering advice based on his experience, and I shall take that advice into consideration in my choice of gear suitable for my purposes.



I had a mirrorless and DSLR at the same time from about 2014 thru 2016 and while I did not do any scientific testing on the matter, I believe the mirrorless had significantly bigger dust issues, although none of the issues were serious enough so that the next time I turned the camera on or off, the dust was removed with the dust removal shake. 

Having just returned from taking pics outside in the bright sunshine (and snow), the scenes were quite difficult to see thru the EVF. While I enjoy my mirrorless cameras, there are shortcomings in certain conditions.


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## tron (Mar 4, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> AlanF said:
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> > ecqns said:
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Back then I avoided 5D because it had the nickname dust magnet. This has changed completely with 40D, 5DII, etc


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## bod (Mar 4, 2018)

Dustin thanks for another one of your excellent reviews which are always informative and accessible to the reader. Like you I have owned the EOS M for some time for the same reason as you and like many on the forum I am awaiting a good FF mirrorless from Canon. As you have noted in several reviews a key feature is a really good EVF, in my case because a high percentage of my lenses are MF and I like the process of MF. I also like using tilt/shift lenses and again an EVF would seem to be a potentially very helpful tool. Your review of the a7R3 is interesting not only because of the EVF but the AF performance. I was interested to learn more of its eye AF feature performance and the improved frame rate and buffer capacity because if I buy a FF mirrorless I want it to be widely useable in different photographic scenarios. Whilst my first choice has been and remains to wait for a Canon FF mirrorless if one does not materialise soon, getting the a7R3 when there is a good $ deal on offer will be an option.

Can I ask for more explanation as to how the zoom feature works in the EVF? Such as:
1) How do you activate the zoom/what controls do you use?
2) What settings are there to control the zoom feature (e.g. zoom extent)?
3) After you take a shot, what happens next time? Does the EVF retain the zoom or must it be reactivated again using the same sequence?
4) What point/region does the EVF zoom about?
5) Can you move the zoom region by touch dragging on the viewfinder?
6) Is there any "auto zoom" type feature like the EOS M5 has with native EFM lenses. For example can you set the body up to zoom automatically when you half press the shutter button?

I appreciate any info that you can provide on this. Thanks again. Phil


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## Refurb7 (Mar 5, 2018)

That is an excellent review. So much info!


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Mar 5, 2018)

Talys said:


> Dustin,
> 
> Thanks for such a thorough and well-written review. I'm curious: what do you find as the autofocus speed difference between adapted and native lens on A7R3 using the MC-11?
> 
> Thanks!



The a7R3's focus system provides a much better experience than I've previously seen with the MC-11, but ultimately quality of focus is still lens-specific. Newer lenses tend to do better. The new Tamron SP primes focus great. The Canon 35L II is very good, and the 100-400L II is okay, the Canon 100L is meh.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Mar 5, 2018)

bod said:


> Dustin thanks for another one of your excellent reviews which are always informative and accessible to the reader. Like you I have owned the EOS M for some time for the same reason as you and like many on the forum I am awaiting a good FF mirrorless from Canon. As you have noted in several reviews a key feature is a really good EVF, in my case because a high percentage of my lenses are MF and I like the process of MF. I also like using tilt/shift lenses and again an EVF would seem to be a potentially very helpful tool. Your review of the a7R3 is interesting not only because of the EVF but the AF performance. I was interested to learn more of its eye AF feature performance and the improved frame rate and buffer capacity because if I buy a FF mirrorless I want it to be widely useable in different photographic scenarios. Whilst my first choice has been and remains to wait for a Canon FF mirrorless if one does not materialise soon, getting the a7R3 when there is a good $ deal on offer will be an option.
> 
> Can I ask for more explanation as to how the zoom feature works in the EVF? Such as:
> 1) How do you activate the zoom/what controls do you use?
> ...



The nice thing about Sony is that you map most features (including focus zoom) to a number of buttons. I personally have it mapped to the AEL button. You do have choices about magnification level and what area of the image is magnified, and even choices on whether you want a color overlay added (I mostly don't use Focus Peaking as I feel it makes the shooting process less organic). Native mount manual focus lenses (with electronics) will trigger an automatic zoom when you move the MF ring, but not third party lenses. It's about as good as it gets right now for MF, particularly when you consider you also get true image stabilization on those lenses to boot.


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## bwud (Mar 5, 2018)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> bod said:
> 
> 
> > Dustin thanks for another one of your excellent reviews which are always informative and accessible to the reader. Like you I have owned the EOS M for some time for the same reason as you and like many on the forum I am awaiting a good FF mirrorless from Canon. As you have noted in several reviews a key feature is a really good EVF, in my case because a high percentage of my lenses are MF and I like the process of MF. I also like using tilt/shift lenses and again an EVF would seem to be a potentially very helpful tool. Your review of the a7R3 is interesting not only because of the EVF but the AF performance. I was interested to learn more of its eye AF feature performance and the improved frame rate and buffer capacity because if I buy a FF mirrorless I want it to be widely useable in different photographic scenarios. Whilst my first choice has been and remains to wait for a Canon FF mirrorless if one does not materialise soon, getting the a7R3 when there is a good $ deal on offer will be an option.
> ...



Adding to Dustin’s response to Bod’s questions:

Regarding (1) and (6): AF lenses won’t let you manually initiate EVF zoom unless they’ve been switched to manual focus (silly programmatic decision IMO). Therefore I have the C2 button set to toggle AF/MF, and the C1 button to focus magnify.

Regarding (2): I’ve only used it with manual triggering, during which progressively zooms in 3 times. I don’t believe you have any control over it. Once you have reached the largest magnification, the next tap returns to the full image.

Regarding (3): magnify disables after you take a photo

Regarding (4): in MF, it defaults to the center, but you can move around with the thumbstick. In DMF, I believe it magnifies in the area of the last AF acquisition, but I could be mistaken.

Regarding (5): good question. Never tried. My touch screen is disabled.


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## bod (Mar 5, 2018)

Thanks Dustin and bwud for the helpful feedback.



bwud said:


> Regarding (5): good question. Never tried. My touch screen is disabled.



Interested that you disable the touch screen. I noted Dustin's comments on the screen in his review. Why do you disable your screen?


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## Talys (Mar 6, 2018)

bod said:


> Thanks Dustin and bwud for the helpful feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've used the A7R2 touchscreen for a couple of full days, and I hated it. If it's like that, I would probably disable the A7R3 touchscreen and not bother with it too 

We take for granted in the Canon world touchscreens that more or less work the way you expect them to; I think, not so much on the A7R2.


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## bwud (Mar 6, 2018)

bod said:


> Thanks Dustin and bwud for the helpful feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If I shot with the rear display things may be different, but mainly, the location of the screen doesn’t work with my hand placement. Also I shoot with my left eye, so there isn’t a clean place to shoehorn in my finger. 

Additionally, I don’t like the lack of sensory feedback. I’m not against touch panels for camera controls, but so far it doesn’t work well for me.



Talys said:


> I've used the A7R2 touchscreen for a couple of full days, and I hated it. If it's like that, I would probably disable the A7R3 touchscreen and not bother with it too



A7rii doesn’t have a touch screen, so yes that would be frustrating...


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## Talys (Mar 6, 2018)

bwud said:


> A7rii doesn’t have a touch screen, so yes that would be frustrating...



I must be misremembering with another Sony body I had borrowed. I just recall that the touchscreen experience was awful :X

It was many months ago, last year, so apologies for mixing it up. I suspect it must have been the a6500, as this is the only other Sony camera I've spent a significant amount of time with (outside of a camera shop).


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## bwud (Mar 6, 2018)

Talys said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > A7rii doesn’t have a touch screen, so yes that would be frustrating...
> ...



;D

I’m not surprised, the Riii’s feels pretty laggy (versus smart phones, which are my primary baseline).


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## Talys (Mar 6, 2018)

bwud said:


> Talys said:
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Yes, "the smartphone experience" should be where we're at for cameras, which, after all, have very powerful processors and expensive touchscreens. _Like Sony's smartphones_, would be ok, lol.

Wracking my brain, I am guessing it was an a6500 that I had a poor touchscreen impression of -- though I generally thought well of the camera.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 27, 2018)

AlanF said:


> padam said:
> 
> 
> > Check out Tyler Stalman's videos A7RII versus 5D IV
> ...



The mirror isn't the primary barrier that keeps dust away from the sensor for a DSLR, the mechanical shutter is.

Do the Sony A7 series of cameras still have mechanical shutter curtains?


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## Talys (Mar 27, 2018)

Michael Clark said:


> AlanF said:
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Yes, however, they're unhelpful to prevent dust on the sensor, because when the lens is off the mount, the shutter is open, not closed.

The reason for this is because the shutter is extremely fragile and easy to damage, while the sensor is very tough, and you're unlikely to damage it -- for example, by putting in a teleconverter the wrong way. The Sony teleconverter protrudes outwards significantly, and putting the wrong end into the camera would destroy the mechanical shutter.

You can fool the camera into making the shutter close, for example, by setting it to a long exposure, pressing the shutter, and then taking the lens off.

Think of sensor dust like this: as often as you see spots on your OVF due to dust, this is how frequently you will see dust on your A7 sensor. The difference is that on the OVF, the actual image rarely gets dust on it (the SENSOR is rarely dirty; it's usually the mirror or the prism).

When I was birding with an A7R3, I actually had to take the lens off one time and blow on it to get rid of a fleck of dust right smack in the middle of the frame. If I owned one of these, there is no way I would do field lens changes anywhere close to particulates, not because I'm afraid of damage, but because if it's a moist particle, I'll never get it off cleanly in the field.

This is how close the sensor is to the mount (note the depth of the contact pins -- that's actually how far back the lens goes):


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 28, 2018)

Interesting, thanks for the shot.

Jack


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## Ian_of_glos (Mar 28, 2018)

bod said:


> Thanks Dustin and bwud for the helpful feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have also disabled the touch screen on my 5D mk4. It is something I never used, and I find the battery lasts longer between charges if the touch screen is disabled.
The only time I enable it is when my wife or one of her friends wants to look at my pictures. They like to be able to flick between pictures by swiping their finger across the screen and zoom in using their fingers like they do on their phones.


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## Talys (Mar 28, 2018)

Ian_of_glos said:


> I have also disabled the touch screen on my 5D mk4. It is something I never used, and I find the battery lasts longer between charges if the touch screen is disabled.



Wow, really? I didn't know that. I'll have to try it on my 6DII, although I'm not sure how I'd measure the difference in battery life. Maybe I'll notice... I'll give it a whirl 



Ian_of_glos said:


> The only time I enable it is when my wife or one of her friends wants to look at my pictures. They like to be able to flick between pictures by swiping their finger across the screen and zoom in using their fingers like they do on their phones.



I am actually _shocked_ that you can't do this in the A7R3. There is very limited support to zoom (tap, not pinch) and pan, but it's so god-awful laggy that I use the buttons on A7R3.


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## Ian_of_glos (Mar 29, 2018)

Talys said:


> Ian_of_glos said:
> 
> 
> > I have also disabled the touch screen on my 5D mk4. It is something I never used, and I find the battery lasts longer between charges if the touch screen is disabled.
> ...


When I first bought my 5D mk4, I noticed that the battery life was not as good as it is on my 5D mk3 and I think Dustin also commented on this in his excellent review.
I had already disabled GPS and Wifi as I have no need for them, so the only thing left that could be draining my battery was the touch screen and sure enough, when I disabled the touch screen the battery life improved. The difference is not dramatic - maybe an extra 200 shots between charges, but that can often mean the difference between having to change the battery mid afternoon and not having to change the battery at all.
Anyway, I hardly ever use the touch screen as I prefer to use the buttons and dials to change settings, scroll through images or zoom in on a particular image. However, the younger generation seem to expect the camera to behave like their phones so I enable it if anyone asks to see my pictures.
The touch screen is also very useful for video as it makes it much easier to control focussing. In fact this works beautifully and it is where the touch screen really excels.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 29, 2018)

Ian_of_glos, I think you are 100% in your comments. A newcomer will not want to fiddle with buttons, rather they'll do what they are familiar with. Some operations are definitely better with the buttons especially when they are programmed efficiently. 

Who doesn't love the touch focus for video - in that case you have to be looking at the screen anyway so why not touch and we're not talking about a small spot focus area.  I continue to believe that Canon isn't stupid.  The Zhiyun Crane 2 gimbal works great with Canon, while other users get to complain about AF - it really made me chuckle.  

Not perfect but not stupid except maybe for not enabling the touch screen fully on my 1DX2. However I have a button under the shutter programmed to "magnify" while the shutter wheel enlarges and that's probably faster anyway except for needing to zero in with the joystick.

Jack


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## Ian_of_glos (Mar 29, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Ian_of_glos, I think you are 100% in your comments. A newcomer will not want to fiddle with buttons, rather they'll do what they are familiar with. Some operations are definitely better with the buttons especially when they are programmed efficiently.
> 
> Who doesn't love the touch focus for video - in that case you have to be looking at the screen anyway so why not touch and we're not talking about a small spot focus area. I continue to believe that Canon isn't stupid.  The Zhiyun Crane 2 gimbal works great with Canon, while other users get to complain about AF - it really made me chuckle.
> 
> ...


Pleased to see we are in agreement.

The buttons on my 5D mk4 are so similar to my 5D mk 3 that I now know instinctively what to do. To me turning the dial to zoom in on a picture or scroll to the next one is much easier than using my 10 thumbs to try and swipe or pinch. You can't teach an old dog new tricks I'm afraid. The bonus is that it seems to extend the battery life.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 29, 2018)

Sure, I think I qualify as an "old dog". 

Jack


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## Talys (Mar 29, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Sure, I think I qualify as an "old dog".
> 
> Jack



But you're using the Zhiyun Crane and making videos now, so you can still learn new tricks 

Glad AF on it works well. I chuckle when I see home videos made with Sony cameras using autofocus; you can always tell, because the occasional autofocus hunting jitter is very noticeable (and amateurish-looking) if it isn't edited out.

It always baffles me when people complain about things like crop factor on video -- how wide do you want to go?! -- when the alternatives are missing basics like autofocus.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 29, 2018)

Couldn't agree more. We humans exhibit some pretty strange characteristics! 

I am learning but it's painful. 

Jack


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## yungfat (Mar 31, 2018)

Talys said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, I think I qualify as an "old dog".
> ...



Totally agreed with you. 

I found a lots people like to complaint something that Sony offered while Canon didn’t offered and disregard those good features from Canon. 

Thanks.


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## dak723 (Apr 1, 2018)

Talys said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, I think I qualify as an "old dog".
> ...



It is only baffling when you forget that most folks commenting on internet forums have little interest in the truth. They have their agendas and little else matters. If you are techno-cool, then apparently you love Sony and they can do no wrong. If you are techno-cool then Canon sucks. Most folks see no reason to go beyond that almost moronic narrow-mindedness. For anyone interested in buying a camera, a forum such as this one may be the absolute worse place to go for information. 

Personally, I think you have done a great job on the recent threads giving us a real-life review of the Sony camera you have been trying out. While Sony undoubtedly does many things well, the specs are so often better sounding than how they work in real life. 

One review I read totally bashed Canon on the crop factor of the new M50. They based all their calculations on Canon's 22mm prime. They must have intentionally forgotten that Canon makes an 11-22mm zoom, or that even the kit lens is 15mm on the wide end.


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## Devil007cz (Apr 11, 2018)

bwud said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > bod said:
> ...



Regarding (1)
That`s not correct if you are in DMF mode where the lens still AF, but you can choose focus peaking or magnification during that as well as additional help.

Regarding (4)
in MF you can pre-select any AF point and then press magnification to zoom so it does not have to be center always.


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## Talys (Apr 11, 2018)

Devil007cz said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> ...





To clarify, since there are so many caveats, like everything else with the A7R3...


*Zoom*: you have a few configurations, none of which is perfect, though the feature itself is awesome. 

a) There is a Zoom Magnify which you can program to a custom button. However, the button generates the most hideous error message that blacks out 95% of your viewfinder if you press it in Continuous Autofocus mode. This is a real pain, because Continuous Autofocus mode is the only mode that uses PDAF; which leaves you with AF-S and DMF (which are Contrast Detect) or MF.

The Zoom Magnify button is configured by default to NOT zooming (it can show an orange box around the area to zoom), but you can reprogram it to default zoom at 6.3x. From there, pressing it a the next two times takes it to more zoom, then back to 1x.

b) So realistically, people program another button to put them into MF mode. There are TWO ways to do this. One version is, it's in MF mode while you hold down a button; the second is a toggle (press once to be in MF; press again to be back in AF).

c) You can also set the camera to automatically go into zoom magnify if you adjust manual focus, or "MF Assist". Annoyingly, you can't set it to zoom automatically if it GOES into manual focus; you actually need to ADJUST manual focus to trigger it.

d) You can pick DMF, or "Direct Manual Focus", which sounds like the camera will let you just grab the ring and just focus. Sounds great, because in this mode, when it goes to manual focus, zoom magnify kicks in. But in fact, it isn't great at all, because DMF doesn't do what it sounds like. It only lets you grab the ring after successful autofocus (wtf?). The idea is that it is for tiny adjustments to the AF. Worse, it only works in single autofocus, and worse yet, both AF-S and DMF are only contrast detect autofocus.

e) There is zoom magnified autofocus too. Set the camera to AF-S or DMF, and hit zoom magnify. Crosshairs come up and you can autofocus on that. It's super useful. Tee only problem is... it doesn't work in continuous autofocus, meaning you'll be in contrast detect AF. Which is fine for the magnified autofocus, but when you're _not_ magnified, it will still be in slow-as-a-pig CDAF.

- There is no way to regulate the magnification of he zoom other than initial zoom of 1x or 6.3x
- Once you take a shot EVF returns to normal (not zoomed)
- You cannot move the zoom region by touch dragging the VF, but you can use the joystick, which works great.
- You cannot make it auto zoom when you acquire autofocus.

This is a feature that Canon on its full frame mirrorless could make better than Sony, not by having better technology, but simply by a better implementation. Plus, DPAF will be dramatically better than CDAF, or the confusing PDAF/CDAF switching.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 11, 2018)

Talys, personally I absolutely hate it when there is a function and it has weird restrictions. Now, if you use a feature regularly, you tend to remember such things. Otherwise, especially for an older person, it stinks.

Is Sony prone to this because of a tendency to want to be first to have the bragging rights and thus willing to go with the caveats or are their engineers/designers afflicted with some strange ailment? 

Jack


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## Talys (Apr 11, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Talys, personally I absolutely hate it when there is a function and it has weird restrictions. Now, if you use a feature regularly, you tend to remember such things. Otherwise, especially for an older person, it stinks.
> 
> Is Sony prone to this because of a tendency to want to be first to have the bragging rights and thus willing to go with the caveats or are their engineers/designers afflicted with some strange ailment?
> 
> Jack



I think it is the former -- Sony is in such a rush to get tech out that most of the tech is still quasi beta. But I mean, they come out with a new flagship, what, every TWO years or so? It sure feels like it. They gotta do SOMETHING to get your next $3,000 

I am 100% with you in terms of functions with weird restrictions. As I've mentioned before, the 2 most glaring are that in 10fps EVF is not refreshed in real time; and that silent shooting is super-distorted if things move.

The whole "You can do this except there as long as that" is just such a pain. Since I shot with the Sony A7R3 for nearly a full month and about 7,000 pictures (though admittedly at 8fps a lot of themwere the same...) , I "got used to it", but realistically, even so, there is a LOT of button fidgeting. Want this feature, switch to that mode. Want that one, switch press A then B the C, but remember to turn it back off afterwards. Using a flash? Do that. 

Another thing that isn't Sony's fault is that because of the EVF WYSIWYG, I'm obsessive about micromanaging the +/- EV, and screw around with the exposure dial way more than I really have to. I mean, honestly, if I'm off by half EV, it really doesn't matter, but because I see it in the EVF, I want to fix it before I take the shot. I am also not really happy with Sony's exposure modes, in that you need to change them depending on what you're shooting quite a bit, if you want propery AE; Canon's evaluative metering seems much better.

On my Canon 6DII, 95% of the time I have the camera set on evaluative metering, AI Servo, Spot AF and switch between C1 and C2 (also: chanign C modes on the Sony causes a super annoying 1 second blackout) -- and those are just exposure settings for bird/action photography versus studio strobe photography.
I am pretty sure it is the former 

At the end of the day, I simply find the Canon easier and faster to pick up and shoot photos with; there's less technical thinking required to just take a picture. But, the Sony sensor does take very lovely photos if you have everything lined up right.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 11, 2018)

Talys, well stated.

Jack


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## martti (Aug 31, 2018)

For pictures like yours, an old Samsung is just fine. Please put some more effort in your review. This is not even funny.


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## SOD (Sep 1, 2018)

martti said:


> For pictures like yours, an old Samsung is just fine. Please put some more effort in your review. This is not even funny.


An old Samsung... or even a Rebel?


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## Alejandro (Jan 30, 2019)

If you match the 32000 iso images to be at the same exposure, will they tie or is it still a win for sony?


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