# Need some tech advice on backup storage please.



## Northstar (Jun 30, 2014)

Hello!

I have a 1TB iMac that is backed up using time machine and a WD portable 1TB hard drive. The problem is that the portable HD is nearly full, so I'm looking for suggestions on how to proceed and what to buy.

I mainly use the WD backup for photos and videos. I have all my favorite photos stored both on my iMac, and on the WD portable. I also use flickr for more important photos for additional redundancy.

Long term, what's your advice on how to proceed with backing up and storing my photos/videos going forward. 

Suggestions and advice appreciated!


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## Chaitanya (Jun 30, 2014)

Most important thing to consider is what is your budget? 
another factor would be do you want a cloud based or network based or an external drive based solution(usb/firewire/thunderbolt)? 

depending on these two there are a lot of solutions available in market. you can get network and external solutions with single and multiple (redundant storage) drives. personally if the photos and video that you are shooting are very important to you I would recomend any external/network based storage device that supports raid1 and has 2 or more drive bays. 

biggest benifit of a network based device would be you can access it using any device inside your home. 

currently I am using a Synology Ds214 with a pair of western digital 3tb red hard drives in raid1. check synology/asustor/qnap for excellent network storage devices.


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## Forceflow (Jun 30, 2014)

I second Chaitanya's advice. If budget allows it a NAS solution (I use a Synology DS-413j with 4 1TB drives in a RAID) is really the most flexible one. Depending on your tech savvy it can easily be expanded and modded to even do off-host backups of specific data into 'the cloud'. I have a script running that backs up the most essential data every night onto my own private server in the internet for example.


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## Orangutan (Jun 30, 2014)

There are three major reasons to make backups, and you need to cover all of them: (1)accidental deletion;(2) hardware failure of your primary storage;(3)major damage (e.g. house fire). For the first two a Time Machine backup is probably your best bet, and a rotation of two if you can afford it. For the third you need to keep an off-site backup, e.g. in a Safe Deposit box at a local bank, or in your desk drawer at work if your work situation allows it. Your off-site backup should be encrypted with a decent password. How often to rotate your off-site backup depends on how much data you're willing to lose.

Long-term storage is a different question: technology keeps changing, so there's no substitute for simply re-copying files to current media on a regular basis. DVDs or BR discs will last you a few years, but you can't really rely on media stability or the availability of readers.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 30, 2014)

The easiest solution would be a Drobo or an NAS with a RAID solution. Then have a system for backing up that Drobo or NAS.

I use an internal 10TB RAID system on my machine, which then syncs my files to a 4TB external HDD. This works out because by the time I fill up 4tb of data, larger capacity HDDs will be available and the backup drive can be upgraded to a 6-8TB drive then.

But that's how I keep it simple.


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## scottkinfw (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm going to even the score and go with RLPhoto on the Drobo.

They have a number of solutions available. I use one at home and one for my small non- photo related business, and they have worked flawlessly. At home I use Macs exclusively, and at work it is a mixed environment with Windows. 

Depending on the type you buy, you can get a network device or a single computer backup system. They come with multiple bays for adding more storage (mine has 5 bays), and a RAID "5" configuration for safety.

The systems are easy to set up, and work well. Never had a problem. Not only do I use them for backup, I just store all my photos on them too, and work with them from LR, so it is fast.

If you are really paranoid, you can also use a cloud solution. With an at home solution, you never need an internet connection, and you don't need to worry about their server or yearly fees. If you need more storage, simply add a HDD as you go, or replace one with a larger capacity. I would start with at least two drives of the highest capacity, and fastest access possible if money is a consideration. Add as you need it. There is also a slot for an add on SD chip for added speed, which I have not added as yet.

Hope this helps.

sek


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## JPAZ (Jun 30, 2014)

First, I can't say this is a flawless system because so far, I've not had to depend on the cloud backup I use. But, I have a two disk "mirror RAID" set up in my PC. I have had to replace a drive more than once but the mirrored drive is still unharmed. Because I could have a catastrophic computer failure or something could happen to my house, I also use Crashplan. The cost of an unlimited cloud backup for my entire household is cheap considering that constitutes 2 PC's, and 3 laptops. That way, in a worse case scenario, I won't lose much. Now, I keep meaning to also do periodic backups on an external HDD (belt and suspenders) but I honestly am not as reliable on doing this as I should be. I thought about an NAS (Drobo or another) but worry that this, too, would be lost in a catastrophe like a house fire unless it is off site.


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## Northstar (Jul 1, 2014)

lots of great ideas...i've spent some time reading about drobo, and a couple of the other suggestions...thank you everyone.

i like simplicity, here's what i had been thinking about...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1024612-REG/g_technology_0g03124_g_drive_3tb_7200_thunderbolt_usb3_sata3.html?gclid=CMa24JDgor8CFcdFMgodAVUA3w

i've got a 2011 iMac with no USB 3, just a couple thunderbolts. So that's why this model appeals to me. lot's of storage and decent speed with the Thunderbolt. It took me over two years to for my 1TB backup to fill...so I think this 3TB would satisfy me for awhile.

CRashplan, for $50/year sounds pretty good, i'll explore that further. I'm curious though...as an alternative to crashplan, why wouldn't i just use smugmug or zenfolio to store/backup my photos/videos?


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## Grumbaki (Jul 1, 2014)

Forceflow said:


> I second Chaitanya's advice. If budget allows it a NAS solution (I use a Synology DS-413j with 4 1TB drives in a RAID) is really the most flexible one. Depending on your tech savvy it can easily be expanded and modded to even do off-host backups of specific data into 'the cloud'. I have a script running that backs up the most essential data every night onto my own private server in the internet for example.



That. A thousand time. My 410j Just saved 4tb data. I took the opportunity to expand.

Synology is very user friendly.

But remember to have an off site back up (cloud or grandma).


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## JPAZ (Jul 1, 2014)

Northstar said:


> CRashplan, for $50/year sounds pretty good, i'll explore that further. I'm curious though...as an alternative to crashplan, why wouldn't i just use smugmug or zenfolio to store/backup my photos/videos?



FWIW, I use Smugmug to share my photos but I use Crashplan to back everything up.


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## Dylan777 (Jul 1, 2014)

I have three 5TB USB3 ext. HDs, mainly for photos. I keep two at home and both always up to date. One at grandma house with monthly backup.


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## Northstar (Jul 1, 2014)

Just an FYI for anyone interested.

Regarding online backup solutions, I found this recently updated article on about.com that has some really good information and discussion on the subject. 

The more I think about it, between natural disasters, weather, technology failure, fire, or most likely THEFT, it really makes sense to have an off site backup plan.

Crashplan and backblaze look best to me....I'm impressed with the security and privacy for $4 month.

Thanks JPaz for the suggestion...I'm going with one of these services and a thunderbolt connected external HD....crashplan will backup my iMac and the external connected HD.

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/backup/a/online-backup-comparison.htm

Ps...I love the fact that two members use grandma's house. Lol. ;D


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## Grumbaki (Jul 1, 2014)

Northstar said:


> Ps...I love the fact that two members use grandma's house. Lol. ;D



Make some sense. 

Siblings and parents can screw up with the HD. Grandma just need to remember not to throw it out.

But anyway, I was using that as a joke/stereotype. My offsite HD is in my office where I enjoy high security including a safe.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 1, 2014)

I use a 6 drive NAS with six 2TB drives to backup each of my computers, and, I try to keep another NAS backup for it in another building (My 2nd NAS just had a power supply failure). Online storage is great, but, so far, it has not been reliable, the new small startups go out of business and take your backups with them, and even Amazon's S3 system has failed and lost data, If you have a GB internet access, its fine, but mine is so slow that its almost worthless.
If you are on a limited budget, get 3 external hard drives, and store 2 of them off site, or at least in a fireproof box. 

This requires that you manually rotate them.


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## LDS (Jul 1, 2014)

Orangutan said:


> There are three major reasons to make backups, and you need to cover all of them: (1)accidental deletion;(2) hardware failure of your primary storage;(3)major damage (e.g. house fire).



There is a fourth, and it is data corruption. It may be hardware related, but also software related. The latter may go unnoticed in many RAID setups, because it's the software writing the bad data.
To protect from HW data corruption, beside using good HW, also ensuring clean power helps (it means a good UPS).
Software corruptions requires that both the file system and software used to make copies stores enough reduntant data to check for and repair - whenever possibile - corrupted data. File systems like ZFS does, and also good backup software. Just copying data out to a NAS or extenal drive may not.


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## Pieces Of E (Jul 1, 2014)

Thunderbolt was available on 2011 Macs? Man, time is flying by.


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## KKCFamilyman (Jul 1, 2014)

The thing about Time machine is that you will need to just get a bigger drive whether it be a 4tb external with plenty of room or a NAS which is overkill.A solution is the following:

a: Backup to a NAS that supports time machine
b: use a reliable cloud backup like either SOS online Backup or upload per shoot to smug mug/zenfolio
c: swap the nas with an identical NAS once a month and reconfigure time machine.
d: only if you really want to be safe. (install the nas in a safe that supports an ethernet cable and keep it in another room in the home/office.

Really to keep it simple just buy a 3-4tb external for now and start looking at cloud backup solutions. You can expand from there. It is hard to recommend something when I do not know how long it took you to fill up the 1tb drive and your budget.


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## jhanken (Jul 1, 2014)

Can't stress enough how important having a Carbonite or similar offsite backup is, because it just happens, there is no need to remember to swap offsite disks for hard failures such as fire or storm damage.


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## Northstar (Jul 1, 2014)

LDS said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > There are three major reasons to make backups, and you need to cover all of them: (1)accidental deletion;(2) hardware failure of your primary storage;(3)major damage (e.g. house fire).
> ...



interesting...didn't know this. thanks


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## Northstar (Jul 14, 2014)

update....I ordered and received from bhphoto this external drive for my iMac:

G-Technology 3TB G-Drive with Thunderbolt

this was so easy to set up and use....about 30 minutes after unboxing i had already backed up nearly 1/2 a TB of photos/videos on it with a simple drag and drop. 

for a non tech savvy guy, this was nice.

sleek and solid feeling too.


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## TexPhoto (Jul 15, 2014)

Northstar said:


> update....I ordered and received from bhphoto this external drive for my iMac:
> 
> G-Technology 3TB G-Drive with Thunderbolt
> 
> ...



OK, maybe I am a little late to the party, but your back-up drive being full is not a problem with time machine. If you have 500GB on your main drive, and your 1TB back-up is almost full, it means your back-up drive has 500GB of current stuff, and almost 500GB of old deleted stuff, and old versions of current files. The old deleted stuff can be stuff that you deleted like documents, tax recored etc. (but you have to have deleted them). It can be stuff that you updated, like old copies of a resume, photo etc. (but not the current copy no matter how old) And it also includes stuff like cashed web pages, system preferences, and old versions of files that you have updated. 

My recommendation is to have more than one back-up drive, Western Digital or otherwise, and keep one at work/grandma's house. Swap them 1 eek or so. That way if robbed, or the house burns down, all is not lost.

Alternative to swapping, You might also consider an online off-site storage system like carbonate. Does not need to be the whole 500GB, just the OMG can't loose that stuff.


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## Northstar (Jul 15, 2014)

TexPhoto said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > update....I ordered and received from bhphoto this external drive for my iMac:
> ...



Tex...yes, I'm going to sign up for crashplan for my off site...good suggestion.

So how do I delete some of the "extra stuff" that time machine has saved?


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## alexanderferdinand (Jul 15, 2014)

I use 3 external Drives, alternating in a circle. Same size; when full, 2 stay at home, one at a friends house.


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## TexPhoto (Jul 15, 2014)

Northstar said:


> Tex...yes, I'm going to sign up for crashplan for my off site...good suggestion.
> 
> So how do I delete some of the "extra stuff" that time machine has saved?



That is one of the great things about Time Machine. You don't have to (and shouldn't). Time machine will do this all by itself. It will get rid of the oldest stuff first. It will let you know "hey will be deleting some stuff…" Really not a big deal, it's supposed to do that.

One thing I do recommend, is practice recovery with it a little. (This goes for any back-up system/hardware/service) Find a document you don't need and delete it. Now use time machine to recover it. It's not hard, but not really easy either. This is not the thing you want to be figuring out how to do when you realize you tossed your term paper, or 100 year old family recipe for beer. Or do what my mom always does. Highlight everything, hit delete, then in a panic, hit save…! Time machine can pull the version of that document from an hour ago, a week ago, and a year ago, all of which can be different.


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## Northstar (Jul 16, 2014)

TexPhoto said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > Tex...yes, I'm going to sign up for crashplan for my off site...good suggestion.
> ...



good info tex...thanks!


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 19, 2014)

Late to the party, been off the grid.

To summarize...

1. RAID configurations are nice but they are NOT backups, they just provide drive fault tolerance.
(Note: If you don't fully understand RAID and have to recover, you may be in trouble.)
(Note 2: Cheap RAID might bite you in the ass. If it's not a battery backed up caching controller, it's cheap RAID. A good quality controller is a must for all RAID above RAID 1. Never use RAID 5, it's an old idea and unreliable.)
(Note 3: If the last two notes scared you, stick with RAID 1, it's the simplest design and requires little effort by the controller to work.)
2. Local backups are faster and better than online for system recovery.
3. Online backups are easier, offsite and automatic so better for redundant file backup/recovery. (Insurance backup.)
4. Time Machine is better than nothing but Carbon Copy and Super Duper are MUCH BETTER BACKUP PRODUCTS for Mac.
5. Do whatever makes you sleep well but more than one backup method is a good idea.
6. I also do the network drive stored in a fire safe thing. Just make sure the fire safe isn't a cheapo drywall lined thin metal box.
7. Absolutely practice recovery! I see backups all the time that were worthless without knowing.
8. Try to have a email or other notification that tells you results when the backup runs and notifies you of errors.
9. Don't use enormous volumes. They are virtually impossible to restore if they fail. 2TB is big enough and even that will take a looong time to restore while you sweat bullets.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 19, 2014)

Northstar said:


> update....I ordered and received from bhphoto this external drive for my iMac:
> 
> G-Technology 3TB G-Drive with Thunderbolt
> 
> ...



Drag and drop is a plan for disaster. Use good backup software that checks files and checks the backup for errors. Do not overwrite files, but do keep multiple backups. Backup software can compress your data, and extend the storage capacity of your drive. Don't just copy files.


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## winglet (Jul 21, 2014)

Some good info on backups. There is a lot more to consider than most people realize. Besides redundancy and offsite considerations you also have to consider data security. So I wanted to add the tip that you may wish to encrypt your external drives as well. At least that way if someone steals a drive you're only out the cost of the hardware. Encrypting an external drive is super-easy with later versions of OS X, and it's transparent if you store the passphrase in your keychain. The drive mounts immediately if plugged into your computer, but will prompt for a password anywhere else. Very slick. Also some may not be aware that Time Machine will handle multiple external drives with ease, versioning them each separately. (Apologies to Windows users as I'm not familiar with the counterpart apps to these.)

My own setup is:

1. Wiebetech 2-bay RAID 1 enclosure with 2x 1.5TB, encrypted. Time Machine backups. This is my main daily backup for the "oops" recovery or retrieval of an older version of a file.

2. Synology DS1511+ 5-bay NAS. 5x 3TB in RAID 6. Why RAID 6? The drives are so large that if one fails, it could take a couple days to rebuild the replacement. During that time if you used RAID 5 you would lose all data if another failed. Since most drives are manufactured and purchased at roughly the same time, the chance of a second drive failing close behind the first is not statistically insignificant. Now you've just lost potentially 12TB of data. (!!) RAID 6 will sustain the loss of two drives simultaneously. Obviously with a larger amount of overhead for the redundancy - my 15TB becomes about 8TB. This is where all of my large but less critical files are stored - movie downloads, tutorials, etc. Basically, the mass of things I've accumulated that I would like to be protected from loss due to hardware failure but could live with if they were stolen since many copies exist elsewhere. (Hardware failure being by far the mostly likely way to lose the data.) The NAS makes the whole repository available to the network for streaming.

3. 2x 1TB WD portable drives, encrypted. Time Machine backups. These are designated A & B and rotated offsite. These do not need to be as large, as their purpose is solely to have a copy of my hard drive offsite, any incremental backups are incidental.

4. Backblaze online backup. I did a bunch of research on the main players in online backup and this seemed the most "Mac-like" and is slightly less expensive than Crashplan and Carbonite for a single user (which I'm sure are both fine as well). So far I'm impressed. 

The online backup is a newer addition, I have relied on the offsite drives until now. I intend to continue to use them as in the event of a catastrophic loss, they would be readily at hand while it would take some time for Backblaze to mail me the entire backup on a hard drive. But the ability to just let Backblaze do it's thing in the background without intervention is wonderful.

I only wish/hope that Apple will hurry up and implement ZFS into their OS soon as data corruption is now the biggest threat to my files. 

i realize that backup schemes like this may sound daunting, but do realize that it wasn't set up overnight, it has evolved and grown over the years as needs have changed. Even starting small is at least a start - most people can't really appreciate just how disastrous and disruptive a total data loss can be until it happens to them.


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## Northstar (Jul 21, 2014)

thanks rusty and winglet...a lot to digest for a non-tech guy!!

appreciate the time taken to offer your opinions / experience!

i haven't signed up for crash plan yet so i might have to check out back blaze


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## winglet (Jul 21, 2014)

My pleasure Northstar, no point in my hours of geekdom going to waste!  I salute anyone being proactive with data backup.

I think all of the major online backup plans allow you a free trial to see how they work for you, I wasn't trying to diss other providers, I've just been pleased so far with Backblaze. My concerns were: would it tie up computer resources, and would it negatively impact my bandwidth? Particularly as I live in Dubai, a long way from their servers.

But so far it has been completely invisible, consuming unnoticeable amounts of processor power and doesn't seem to impact my network connection at all. FWIW.

Meanwhile my poor colleague has a dead hard drive in his drawer with irreplaceable family photos on it while he builds his nerve to drop the several thousand dollars he's been quoted to forensically recover the files. Ouch. 

Cheers, winglet.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 21, 2014)

I think *winglet* has good advice but I would take it easy on file level encryption. In most cases, encryption only ends up making it harder or impossible to recover data in the event of a drive failure or accidental deletion. It will also impact performance a bit. I encourage folks to encrypt only sensitive data, not ALL their data. I can't imagine the need to encrypt 1000's of photos, movies or music. Save encryption for smaller data files that contain information you never want seen and contains sensitive information.


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## Lyle Krannichfeld (Jul 22, 2014)

For me (professional photographer, most likely higher file volume than average) I want simplicity, redundancy, reliability and low cost. I found and still use a Lacie thunderbolt 2big drive. It writes in RAID to 2 different drives. As the drives fill up (I buy whatever size is the cheapest per gig at the time), I keep one offsite just in case of some catastrophe like a fire or theft. I've had zero problems, glitches or anything. I guess ideally I'd have cloud storage too but at this point I'm satisfied.

Lyle


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## winglet (Jul 24, 2014)

Rusty,

You are correct that encryption does add a level of complexity and users should have at least a basic idea of what they are doing before casually applying heavy encryption to anything. But respectfully, I think the idea of selectively encrypting files is a bit of a throwback to a past when CPU power was much less than it is. Much like we were once very selective with which files we would choose to backup to expensive, small external hard drives! My entire backup regime is based on the philosophy that if a single drive fails anywhere, I won't be attempting to recover data off it with a forensic block-by-block type service - my whole goal is to avoid the necessity of that! So the encryption is a moot point in that regards. As far as a performance hit, I've noticed absolutely none for all intents and purposes, not even during CPU-intensive tasks. 

However I do think that data security is paramount, and the chances of people fiddling with picking and choosing which data to encrypt means it probably won't happen at all. Yes, there are utilities that simplify it a bit, but they are still cumbersome to set up. Most people won't bother. I myself used to only encrypt selectively with encrypted DMG images I would FTP to a web server, but that is way beyond Aunt Edna's technical ability so she just won't encrypt a thing! 

The beauty of Apple's built-in backup (Time Machine) and encryption (Filevault) functions is that they are dead simple and work transparently to the user - which means they actually have a chance of getting used.

As well, many businesses and organizations require full-disk encryption with company equipment or files. The idea being that it's better to have something encrypted that doesn't need to be, than something that really should be private being exposed. 

I should note that I did not start using full-disk encryption on the Mac until the introduction of Filevault 2. The original version only encrypted a users Home directory, was buggy, a resource hog, and had some design flaws that corrupted a few people's drives and scared me off. But my experience with the current iteration - which encrypts the entire drive and external drives if desired - has been flawless and transparent.

As with the backups, everyone must find a system that will protect them to a level they are comfortable with.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 25, 2014)

No problem *winglet*. I think I understand your point, you're keeping it simple.

Here is an example of my point...

Encrypted _Drive_ X - (~100 GB) - Private files, documents, etc. No media, photos, etc. In my setup, this drive is on my server and it's not even physically in the same computer as my photography and media stuff. This stuff is encrypted before it goes anywhere, backups, online, etc.

Non-Encrypted _Drives_ M, N, O, P Q, etc... - (~ 2TB x 5 = 10TB) - Photography for over 5+ years,. Lightroom Catalogs, Music, Video, non-sensitive stuff, etc. These are all RAID 1 drives and are backed up on external drives, online, etc.

As you can see, I have very little need to encrypt all the photography and media files. It's a needless step and honestly, puts encryption on stuff I really don't want it. It makes good sense to encrypt the other private stuff because it is important and possibly sensitive. I'm not talking about picking and choosing _files_, I simply have one _drive_ that is encrypted and all the other drives that are not. Even though it is called file level encryption, it can be managed on a drive by drive basis, at least in the Windows world.


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