# Gordon Laing explains the updates in firmware v1.1.0 for the Canon EOS R5



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 27, 2020)

> Canon has released a firmware update for the Canon EOS R5, this version will be 1.1.0.
> *Firmware Version 1.1.0 incorporates the following fixes and enhancements:*
> 
> Useful messaging is now displayed when [HDMI display: Camera+External monitor] and [Overheat control: on] settings are enabled.
> ...



Continue reading...


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

Let's go again.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 27, 2020)

CRG it is up at the Canon Singapore


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

I'm cancelling my R6 order.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Aug 27, 2020)

Canon with the ole one finger salute .


----------



## Dragon (Aug 27, 2020)

That is enough improvement that I can't see heating ever getting in my way. An aside to those who would whine about having to shut the camera off - if it isn't cooling as fast turned on, it is also eating your battery, so turning it off makes sense on at least 2 counts.


----------



## Dragon (Aug 27, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I'm cancelling my R6 order.


Maybe you should order a Red .


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

Good first firmware fix.


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Maybe you should order a Red .


And wear a kimono while using it.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Canon with the ole one finger salute .


Whiner with the ole irrational perpetual victim mentality.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 27, 2020)

B&H Photo Recommended Accessories: Mini Freezer


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I'm cancelling my R6 order.



I changed my mind after finishing Gordon's video.

I was wrong!!


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 27, 2020)

That's really great news for shooting short clips of 4k 120. 

96 clips of 30 second length would be more than enough to get me through a full day of shooting. Awesome!


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 27, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> That's really great news for shooting short clips of 4k 120.
> 
> 96 clips of 30 second length would be more than enough to get me through a full day of shooting. Awesome!


The key really is turning it off and letting it cool a bit between shots


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

Out of all the reviewers, Gordon is one of the only ones worth anything. Constructive, intelligent, and not a sensationalist. Adult enough to be nuanced and careful even when criticism is warranted, and able to realize when it is not.

His conclusions make a ton of physical sense. The amount of capability in this camera generates real, problematic heat, just like any decent test shows where people aren't forcing it or disabling safeties. Canon is using 3 sensors to protect internal components for long life of the components, just like any other modern high speed circuit that throttles or shuts down (hard drives, CPU, tons of things have thermal limits). Overheating ASIC and sensors repeatedly can and will degrade them. 

Very sensible that ambient temperature is measured in order to predict record time as a function of starting temp plus expected temp rise over time in that mode. That isn't actually a bad way to do it if you want to keep a conservative safe limit for the dies of the chips and sensor. Sure, if the product didn't have the huge sensor and processor activity and strong IBIS and weather sealing, it would cool better and run longer or indefinitely, but we are back to square one where any intelligent testing shows real thermal issues and the product does what Canon says without any conspiracy. People can hack all they want or complain that Canon should sample the temperature constantly and raise the limit, but without the whole engineering picture it is irresponsible to say we know better.

In my own thermal tests in hot sun, the camera was quite predictable and did overheat, and disabling IBIS and the EVF made things cool much faster and last longer. It makes perfect sense to me that even idle, just running the processor and EVF and IBIS, produces enough heat inside the sealed body that must flow away from the sensitive components where temp sensors will be placed. So no conspiracy after all, just a sub optimal algorithm that has now been improved. Can it be improved more without compromising safety and long term reliability of the camera? Can lighter codecs help? How many people actually need this and cannot just use an external recorder vs all the whining and negativity?

Sadly the comments on Gordon's video are the same confirmation bias trash we knew they would be be already: proof of the cripple hammer, fake timer, blah blah blah. I'd say these people are all paid shills for another brand, but the truth is sadder than that- average video crowd is just that dense and spoiled.


----------



## hunck (Aug 27, 2020)

Update went well although it was stuck on 0% for what seemed minutes  In hindsight I did the upgrade with a rather empty battery so that's a thing to check. Anyway, I did some shots, made some movies. All is well but I did not check heating issues yet.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

hunck said:


> Update went well although it was stuck on 0% for what seemed minutes  In hindsight I did the upgrade with a rather empty battery so that's a thing to check. Anyway, I did some shots, made some movies. All is well but I did not check heating issues yet.



does it still let ya stick rice in it?


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Canon with the ole one finger salute .



How do you figure? Because they somehow didn’t do the impossible?


----------



## 1D4 (Aug 27, 2020)

hunck said:


> Update went well although it was stuck on 0% for what seemed minutes  In hindsight I did the upgrade with a rather empty battery so that's a thing to check. Anyway, I did some shots, made some movies. All is well but I did not check heating issues yet.



I was stuck at 0% for a while, too...and the whole time I was thinking "I SHOULD'VE SWITCHED TO P MODE LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS STATED!!". (I have pretty much every mode except for M and Av disabled, so I was too lazy to go in and enable P)


----------



## marathonman (Aug 27, 2020)

Well this is embarrassing..... 

I took a sledgehammer to my brand new R5 after Chelsea Northrup's husband and full-time viagra salesman told me that the 4K was unusable.
But now Gordon says that, providing I carry around a small British refrigerator, that I should be able to shoot the biopic that I have been planning, at 120 fps, called "Andrew slays the Giant. The story of one man, armed with only a giant chip on his shoulder, defeating the nemesis of all aspiring Hollywood DoPs". 

Lights, camera.... oh wait..... what's that flashing red symbol mean?


----------



## rdickert (Aug 27, 2020)

1D4 said:


> I was stuck at 0% for a while, too...and the whole time I was thinking "I SHOULD'VE SWITCHED TO P MODE LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS STATED!!". (I have pretty much every mode except for M and Av disabled, so I was too lazy to go in and enable P)



same here, sat at 0% for a bit.  Don’t fret though, it doesn’t take that long overall - maybe 3-5 min max


----------



## geffy (Aug 27, 2020)

Its not a video camera and not a substitute for the 5d iv, the fan boys continue to laud and shout but they do not do it for a living where the main requirement is reliability, after such a long wait it looks as though the m7 might be canons last hope


----------



## amorse (Aug 27, 2020)

Honestly this makes complete sense to me. A bit better sampling of temperature, a bit better cool down time, a bit better utilization of active cooling. I have a hard time seeing much better improvement without a hardware change.

With that said, people are still going to express frustration in not having the camera do everything they want. But I'm an optimist - maybe with people saying they're going to send it back or sell it I'll be able to find one on a discount some day


----------



## DBounce (Aug 27, 2020)

I’ll give it a try over the weekend. If it doesn’t work out the R5 goes back.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 27, 2020)

I installed it on one, so I could test things out. My beef: the intervalometer wasn't fixed


----------



## canonnews (Aug 27, 2020)

geffy said:


> Its not a video camera and not a substitute for the 5d iv, the fan boys continue to laud and shout but they do not do it for a living where the main requirement is reliability, after such a long wait it looks as though the m7 might be canons last hope


ah yes.. Canon is *******


----------



## geffy (Aug 27, 2020)

canonnews said:


> ah yes.. Canon is *******


we all are


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 27, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I installed it on one, so I could test things out. My beef: the intervalometer wasn't fixed


What's wrong with the intervalometer?


----------



## tiltshift (Aug 27, 2020)

I did one photoshoot with my R5 and 5dIV side by side. I sold my iv the next day. if you are just a youtuber or video guy then I get you want a video camera with no limitations but for everyone else the r5 is so nice to shoot with... Going to try and get an r6 for backup.


----------



## davo (Aug 27, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I installed it on one, so I could test things out. My beef: the intervalometer wasn't fixed


What wrong with it????


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Out of all the reviewers, Gordon is one of the only ones worth anything. Constructive, intelligent, and not a sensationalist. Adult enough to be nuanced and careful even when criticism is warranted, and able to realize when it is not.
> 
> His conclusions make a ton of physical sense. The amount of capability in this camera generates real, problematic heat, just like any decent test shows where people aren't forcing it or disabling safeties. Canon is using 3 sensors to protect internal components for long life of the components, just like any other modern high speed circuit that throttles or shuts down (hard drives, CPU, tons of things have thermal limits). Overheating ASIC and sensors repeatedly can and will degrade them.
> 
> ...


Yeah I bought him a coffee - as you say another well thought out review when he only had a day to prepare.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Aug 27, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Whiner with the ole irrational perpetual victim mentality.



Very rational actually. 

But your Predictable response was predictable. You want it to be a whiner mentality so you can feel better about yourself. You’re a “photographer” so you don’t care about the video stuff, go buy a cinema camera, blah blah.

Canon knows the issues. Clearest point is the 29:59 record limit. There’s no tax , no hardware limitation, just a Canon limitation. This is an easy change. I have an Atomos and planned to use it anyway, it’s not really a factor for me it’s just clear the message they wanted to send.

On that note Canon decided to wait till the day before R6 ships to ....give more 30 second 4k120 bursts. They knew people would pay attention, and also what fixes there was interest in.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

geffy said:


> Its not a video camera and not a substitute for the 5d iv, the fan boys continue to laud and shout but they do not do it for a living where the main requirement is reliability, after such a long wait it looks as though the m7 might be canons last hope



Have you considered that anyone who disagrees with you is not automatically a fan boy? Have you tried to imagine that some people might actually make a living with video and not still be whining about the R5? No one said it was a video camera yet you are still reacting like it is and something is wrong with it, even while you say it is not a video camera. How rational is that?! There are plenty of dedicated video tools on the market but predictably here you are griping again, while real pros seem to be out using tools that work for them.

Some of us simply make an informed decision, and then BUY THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. Some of us own several brands of cameras and all the major brands are very good. Who is being unreasonable here, people accepting gear for what it is and moving on with life, or you, who has some strong anti Canon agenda and cannot get yourself over this reality of what the R5 is? Where is your Sony already? With the amount of complaining you do I wonder if they will give you a discount, if you are already not on their cult payroll. If your comments reflect how you run your video business, obsessing over problems instead of finding solutions and moving on, I think it may be your customers who are *******, not Canon. 

Also you are quite right, R5 is no replacement for the 5D4, it is way better.

'Canon's last hope' just listen to yourself. So much ego and so little thought put into your posts.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Very rational actually.
> 
> But your Predictable response was predictable. You want it to be a whiner mentality so you can feel better about yourself. You’re a “photographer” so you don’t care about the video stuff, go buy a cinema camera, blah blah.
> 
> ...



I want it to be a whiner mentality so I can feel better about myself? That is really the conclusion you draw?

I own dedicated video equipment and I work with reality. That is professional and rational. Whining endlessly about a product you don't own is in no way rational. I'll just ignore you from here out.


----------



## StevenA (Aug 27, 2020)

I'm a bit underwhelmed by this update. I mean how hard would it have been to throw in some of the obvious fixes? 1080p 120 anyone?


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Very rational actually.
> 
> But your Predictable response was predictable. You want it to be a whiner mentality so you can feel better about yourself. You’re a “photographer” so you don’t care about the video stuff, go buy a cinema camera, blah blah.
> 
> ...


Is there a 29:59 time limit when recording externally?


----------



## Able (Aug 27, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Maybe you should order a Red .


 Not going that far but I’m selling all my canon shit and moving to Sony


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Aug 27, 2020)

By February-March next year the camera should be pretty well sorted with fw updates, will probably be discounted and will be readily available. So glad I don't rush to be a beta tester for new gear. Looks like a great camera and my 500 f/4L IS II is itching to get a work out on a Canon body after 2 years absence.


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

StevenA said:


> I'm a bit underwhelmed by this update. I mean how hard would it have been to throw in some of the obvious fixes? 1080p 120 anyone?


Added features will probably come in one update later. Got to make sure this firmware goes smoothly first.


----------



## PhotoGenerous (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Very rational actually.
> 
> But your Predictable response was predictable. You want it to be a whiner mentality so you can feel better about yourself. You’re a “photographer” so you don’t care about the video stuff, go buy a cinema camera, blah blah.
> 
> ...



But that's a contradiction right there. Canon has always had that clear dividing line that you're pointing to. So why add a magical random shut off limiting line that no one can predict with any accuracy in random conditions? They didn't do it just for funsies. They didn't need to, because they've always had that clear dividing line which is still included in this camera.


----------



## adigoks (Aug 27, 2020)

"The phenomenon in which the movie recording time available is not correctly displayed when the Date/Time/Zone is not set has been corrected. "

seems internal battery hack wouldnt work anymore . but battery door hack may still work.
slowly but surely canon will take down any possible hack for the camera.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

I just did a test with 8k25 with clog, to UHS II, no IS, rf 35mm, rear screen closed inwards.

1st test, 19mins 56s. Roughly the same as I got before (20m 10s)

Then I sat it on my tripod, next to the air con unit (which is near the ceiling - lucky my tripod will extend to over 2m). Based on Gordon's video where Canon said ok for the freezer, I thought air con would be ok - but I am not sure I would do this for extended recording / cooling.

Removed battery but kept everything closed bar the screen. Left the lens on as I figured it was slightly warm and thus provide some cooling. Also had an L bracket on, but slightly extended - also to perhaps provide some cooling. Air con on about 15mins, 18 deg. Body felt suitably chilled 

The temp in my appt is not 18 deg atm, but for the 2nd test it is fair to say it was cooler than the first. When I tried previously with a desk fan and not using the air con on max, it still took me the 2 hrs to cool it down before I got the max record back.

Display shows 15 mins recording time, same as before ie fully restored. Hit the record button. 26mins before it ran out of space . The overheat warning icon was on and didnt allow further recording. I guess I overdid it a little on the air con.

There's a review over at DPR, including a simulation of stills and video which are improved. That's the one I want to test next as that's my personal use case.

It's currently cooling now with my 5" fan - same setup as aircon (lens, l plate, closed battery/cards, no card, no battery), except it is sitting on the same table near the window. I will leave that for 20 mins and see.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

StevenA said:


> I'm a bit underwhelmed by this update. I mean how hard would it have been to throw in some of the obvious fixes? 1080p 120 anyone?


A lot more testing is required for those I would guess.

If you look at the R6 now released, the firmware changes for the 100-500mm, new cameras having certification, new Cine cameras coming. Canon is full on doing lots of things, so I think doing this now is a great first step, and those other are forthcoming. At the end of Gordon's video he said the same...


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> I just did a test with 8k25 with clog, to UHS II, no IS, rf 35mm, rear screen closed inwards.
> 
> 1st test, 19mins 56s. Roughly the same as I got before (20m 10s)
> 
> ...



After 10 mins with the fan, it's of course not as cold as the air con, but it is cool to the touch. I did quickly take it away to plonk in a battery and the record times are back to 10 mins. Didnt do a record. Leaving it for a further 10 mins.

A the further 10 mins takes it up to 11mins 52, and then I realised the 64GB card was in, doh! Put the 128GB in and I get 15 mins I get at the start. So a significant improvement over what I got with fw 1.0 using the same fan (2hrs). Changing the algorithm has certainly made some welcome changes.

These are of course ideal temps. Controlled env, indoors. This USB or battery powered fan costs about 100HKD, about 10 GBP, 12USD.

Next test, I put the table and camera outside on the balcony. This probably took around 5 mins to find another extension cable, but the camera was still cooler from the 5" fan cooling it. I would guess the temp is around 30 degrees C (86 F) / 76 percent humidity according to the iphone temp app (which does it based on location). Not in direct sunlight, it is in the shade, and that's just giving an idea. I havent done this test with FW 1.0, so I have no comparison other than the indoor times. Although the picture shows the 5" fan, it isn't switched on during recording, I am only using it for cooldown. I get 18mins 31s. of recording (test 3 MC)

After 20mins with the 5" fan, I get 5mins recording displayed. I then rotated to portrait in case that is better cooling for a further 10 mins. Still says 5 mins. Hit the record button so I can get it to overheat and then see what the cooldown is without the fan.

Actual recording on the balcony is 12mins 1s before it shuts down (test 4 MC)

After 20 mins, with no fan, and no picture to show  - the internal recording tells me 4mins. I leave it a further 10 mins. It tells me 5mins. Recording on the balcony gives me 8mins 4s

Oh and correction, sorry, it is 8k25 with clog, IPB, no IBIS, no AF. Have corrected that in the prev post.

I uploaded these pics from the iphone (FW Test 3-1, 3-2 and 3-3) with no editing, no cropping, no downsizing just in case someone would feel that I might somehow cheat...

*Summary:*
1st Test from power up (off all night) 19mins 56s 
Next to air con unit for 15 mins.

2nd Test (indoors) 26m (ran out of storage, and then would not record further)
Cool down with 5" Fan for 15mins

3rd Test Outside on Balcony 18mins 31secs.
Cool down with 5" fan on Balcony. After 20mins it stated 5 mins. After a futher 10 mins still 5 mins.

4th Test Outside on Balcony 12mins 1s
Cool down by itself. After 20 mins it says 4 mins available and it feels midly warm. After a further 10 it tells me 5 mins.

5th Test (final) outside on Balcony 8mins 4s

*Conclusions (mine!)*

Indoors, with a 5" USB fan and some form of env temp control, then I think the recovery time has decreased a lot. For me, 2hrs down to 20 mins.

Outdoors, same fan, it gave me around 50% more recording time for the same cooldown period.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

amorse said:


> Honestly this makes complete sense to me. A bit better sampling of temperature, a bit better cool down time, a bit better utilization of active cooling. I have a hard time seeing much better improvement without a hardware change.
> 
> With that said, people are still going to express frustration in not having the camera do everything they want. But I'm an optimist - maybe with people saying they're going to send it back or sell it I'll be able to find one on a discount some day



Only a tiny bit better.

I'm cancelling my order...again...maybe not...


----------



## Rocksthaman (Aug 27, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I want it to be a whiner mentality so I can feel better about myself? That is really the conclusion you draw?
> 
> I own dedicated video equipment and I work with reality. That is professional and rational. Whining endlessly about a product you don't own is in no way rational. I'll just ignore you from here out.



Exactly. The photographers and videographers have been buying separate tools for so long that it turns out a great video camera can also be a great photo camera and vice versa. Talk about whining , it’s Crazy how territorial people are , talking about how it’s a photography camera, it’s a camera that captures what ever we can get in front of the sensor. Look at the comments in the photography review G Lang did, finally a review for photography it was like this side of the fence wanted some attention.

Some how the art has gotten so caught up in the gear that it’s professional to have a dedicated this and a dedicated that. When the people that were paying are doing their own videos and taking pictures with their phones.

You want to know what’s really professional ....being profitable and staying in business. Having a bunch of cameras or even buying a cinema camera when your camera is hardware capable But software limited, it should drive you up a wall if unlimited record times or log profiles are important to you. I have two Sony’s because they have been cost effective and have affordable third party lenses. They are not inspiring to use but Very functional. I’ve been holding on to my canon glass and I have a shelf of it. But the features that Sony puts in their $900 cameras you would think Canon would put in their $4K one.

At some point the photographers who don’t care about video should because it’s a value game at this point because the real competition in this space is the cell phone.

Just look at the flip screen That are for “vloggers”, but the angles at which you can shoot now vs my old 5D’s are so much better. I got a cheap R and it is a blast to shoot with(AF is terribly inconsistent), but it is inspiring to use. Inspiration is growing in importance for me.


David - Sydney said:


> Is there a 29:59 time limit when recording externally?


No but there’s no real reason for there to be one internally. See any camera made in the past two years. The tax is gone.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Have you considered that anyone who disagrees with you is not automatically a fan boy? Have you tried to imagine that some people might actually make a living with video and not still be whining about the R5? No one said it was a video camera yet you are still reacting like it is and something is wrong with it, even while you say it is not a video camera. How rational is that?! There are plenty of dedicated video tools on the market but predictably here you are griping again, while real pros seem to be out using tools that work for them.
> 
> Some of us simply make an informed decision, and then BUY THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. Some of us own several brands of cameras and all the major brands are very good. *Who is being unreasonable here, people accepting gear for what it is and moving on with life*, or you, who has some strong anti Canon agenda and cannot get yourself over this reality of what the R5 is? Where is your Sony already? With the amount of complaining you do I wonder if they will give you a discount, if you are already not on their cult payroll. If your comments reflect how you run your video business, obsessing over problems instead of finding solutions and moving on, I think it may be your customers who are *******, not Canon.
> 
> ...




have you ever considered that when someone has a negative opinion on certain aspects of a camera, that doesn't mean they are out to bash the brand or that they are the competition fanboys.


please move on with your life. you're not going to change people's mind about their option on canon's overheating problem


----------



## tapanit (Aug 27, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> By February-March next year the camera should be pretty well sorted with fw updates, will probably be discounted and will be readily available.



Sometime Feb-Mar next year I plan to take an R5 out to Lapland and shoot auroras, guess I'll have to try 8k and/or 4kHQ modes. It will be interesting to see if and how soon it overheats (typical night temperature then will be around -20°C, but even -40°C is fairly common).


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Only a tiny bit better.
> 
> I'm cancelling my order...again...maybe not...



I watched DPR's new video on the firmware. 
I was wrong! R6 is back in my B&H cart! HA HA!!


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

Able said:


> Not going that far but I’m selling all my canon shit and moving to Sony



what do you want for the EF/RF adapter and the 85mm?


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 27, 2020)

tapanit said:


> Sometime Feb-Mar next year I plan to take an R5 out to Lapland and shoot auroras, guess I'll have to try 8k and/or 4kHQ modes. It will be interesting to see if and how soon it overheats (typical night temperature then will be around -20°C, but even -40°C is fairly common).


I reckon your batteries will run out first before the camera overheats (or cards are full)


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> No but there’s no real reason for there to be one internally. See any camera made in the past two years. The tax is gone.


I agree that the European tax is gone but seeing that you are using an Atomos anyway, I am not seeing where your issue is? It doesn't seem to impede your use-case.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

I'm gonna drill some holes in the body to let the heat escape. 

I'm not worried about weather sealing. And if I ever change my mind, I can always temporarily plug them up with silicone ear plugs swimmers use.


----------



## Famateur (Aug 27, 2020)

So...I've mostly watched from the sidelines as all the drama has unfolded about overheating with the R5. I've seen people go from total disbelief that 8K was even real (or _possible _in this form factor) when rumored to acting cheated that it has any constraints. I see people say things like, "Canon hid the overheating truth at launch." Or, "They buried it in the manual." Or, "Great camera, terrible marketing." Was I the only one that saw footnote #2 in the video that said that 8K recording time depended on temperature and that recording time would be 20 minutes or less? That was even before they released the table of anticipated record times and cool-down times.

The R5 was marketed like everything else: Advertised highlights with asterisks and footnotes of the real-world caveats. I would have thought that for all the incredulity regarding the mere possibility of 8K RAW before the R5 launched that everyone would have looked for and seen the asterisks and footnotes. If they had just read those on launch day, there would be nothing to whinge about. People went from, "It's impossible," to "I've been cheated" nearly overnight and don't realize that their outrage is a product of their own ignorance (including on matters of engineering, I might add).

If there's one place Canon really missed the mark, it's in anticipating that people would be amazed and excited that a 5-series camera would be capable of shooting 8K _at all_, let alone 4K 120, 4K60, 4KHQ -- all at under $4K!. Not only did Canon give what everyone demanded, they threw in 8K RAW clips up to 20 minutes! Talk about a cherry on top! But no, they totally underestimated the toxic entitlement-oriented I-want-it-all-for-cheaper-than-ever mentality that has infected our culture. I see Canon engineers and decision makers, from one of the more honorable and respectful cultures in the world, producing an incredible piece of advanced technology, then essentially being shouted down as liars, cheaters and cripple-hammering lowlifes by a herd of self-absorbed, focus-on-the-negative, click-baiting lowlifes.

Could it be...that Canon brought to market an incredible stills camera, with market-leading features that also had powerful video capabilities for occasional video shooting, all for a relatively low price, and that serious film makers can either use cinema gear or plunk down a few hundred dollars for an external recorder for their all-day 4KHQ enjoyment?

Perish the thought...

Okay. That's out of my system, I think. 

Can't wait until R5s are back in stock. I've just about got enough saved up!


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

Famateur said:


> So...I've mostly watched from the sidelines as all the drama has unfolded about overheating with the R5. I've seen people go from total disbelief that 8K was even real (or _possible _in this form factor) when rumored to acting cheated that it has any constraints. I see people say things like, "Canon hid the overheating truth at launch." Or, "They buried it in the manual." Or, "Great camera, terrible marketing." Was I the only one that saw footnote #2 in the video that said that 8K recording time depended on temperature and that recording time would be 20 minutes or less? That was even before they released the table of anticipated record times and cool-down times.
> 
> The R5 was marketed like everything else: Advertised highlights with asterisks and footnotes of the real-world caveats. I would have thought that for all the incredulity regarding the mere possibility of 8K RAW before the R5 launched that everyone would have looked for and seen the asterisks and footnotes. If they had just read those on launch day, there would be nothing to whinge about. People went from, "It's impossible," to "I've been cheated" nearly overnight and don't realize that their outrage is a product of their own ignorance (including on matters of engineering, I might add).
> 
> ...




That's what *cornieleous has been saying every 10 minutes since the official R5 camera release announcement.*


----------



## Max TT (Aug 27, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> does it still let ya stick rice in it?


LOL I die


----------



## -pekr- (Aug 27, 2020)

Late to the party. What am I missing? Please just a bad news, so that I could start whinning right away. Feeling strong and fresh in the morning!


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

The early September firmware for the RF 100-500. 
Do you think Canon will sneak in some R5 features in there?


----------



## pmjm (Aug 27, 2020)

Does anyone know if I install the update and somehow get less 4KHQ time on an external recorder with the memory card removed, can I revert back to the original firmware?


----------



## Viggo (Aug 27, 2020)

1D4 said:


> I was stuck at 0% for a while, too...and the whole time I was thinking "I SHOULD'VE SWITCHED TO P MODE LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS STATED!!". (I have pretty much every mode except for M and Av disabled, so I was too lazy to go in and enable P)


Omg! So you can remove modes like on 1-series?! I’ve been searching for that info since release. Excellent


----------



## Famateur (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> ...hardware capable But software limited...




This assumption is what has so many video/hybrid shooters up in arms. I'm not so sure it's an accurate assumption.

It's one thing to be able to shoot for hours once you override the safety restrictions. It's another to operate it like that day after day, year after year...and have it work as well four years down the road as it did on Day 1. 

Canon may very well have put more conservative limitations in place than needed, erring on the side of longevity. Remember, Canon also plans to support the products, not just sell them. It's in everyone's best interest to find the right balance of capability and long-term reliability. After all, if running it hot cuts the life of the camera in half, it's no better than having to buy two cameras with current limits.

As Gordon Laing passed along from Canon reps, the R5 has THREE temperature sensors (two internal near the AF and sensor area, and one for ambient temperature). It uses all three, in combination with timers, to govern time recording limits. I think it's quite a leap to assume that any limitation on recording time is strictly an unnecessary software limitation. Why even engineer the multiple temp sensors if you're just doing some cinema-line-protecting-cripple-hammer-funny-business via the firmware?

PS: Anyone else notice that the firmware update allows you to enable the heat warning when recording externally? Why would someone want that? Oh...perhaps there's the real possibility of causing heat damage to the camera when recording externally because heat is still an issue...just one that was not managed when recording externally (until now).

Okay...going to bed because it seems it's not out of my system yet. Eh, Baron_Karza?


----------



## Viggo (Aug 27, 2020)

Does anyone know where the ambient temp measure is on the camera?


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 27, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> That's what *cornieleous has been saying every 10 minutes since the officially R5 camera release announcement.*


To be fair we have all had to deal with a lot of new faces around here and I know reading the same "Cripple Hammer" comments all the time makes me want to pull my hair out and I am old and I want to keep my hair...


----------



## -pekr- (Aug 27, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Does anyone know where the ambient temp measure is on the camera?



Yeah, yeah - we will tell you, and you're gonna hack it, right kid?


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Does anyone know where the ambient temp measure is on the camera?


Near the ports.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Does anyone know where the ambient temp measure is on the camera?


On Gordon's video around 55s, the external one is near to the ports. The two internal ones are near the AF & Imaging sensor. That's what Canon UK told him.


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Does anyone know if I install the update and somehow get less 4KHQ time on an external recorder with the memory card removed, can I revert back to the original firmware?


I think you should be safe with external recording time.


----------



## Joules (Aug 27, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Not only did Canon give what everyone demanded, they threw in 8K RAW clips up to 20 minutes! Talk about a cherry on top!


Honestly, the thing I am watching forward to the most now is when Nikon or Sony come out with their next 45+ MP offerings and either overheat as well or simply not offer the combination of downsampled 4K / 8K with full AF  Witnessing the reaction to the realization that heat is a concern for small portable devices when they perform extremely intense computations will be quite something.

Of course those guys may overcome the issue by simply adding a fan in the camera for active cooling. That will have it's downsides as well. Or just allowing the camera to cook itself. Better to face complaints about reliability a few years down the road than right at purchase I guess


----------



## nolifedigital (Aug 27, 2020)

First test - 4KHQ 30fps - external with OG E6 battery inside, no cards in slots - camera ran until battery died which was around 2 hours. No OH warning. If you're worried about firmware messing up external recording, don't fret. Seems to be good so far. Doing further tests to see if anything is improved - but good to know nothing has diminished.


----------



## bytebuster (Aug 27, 2020)

I wonder if the R6 base firmware already includes some of these fixes (especially the one related to better thermal handling). Because I don't see any firmware update listed for it on the Canon website


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

nolifedigital said:


> First test - 4KHQ 30fps - external with OG E6 battery inside, no cards in slots - camera ran until battery died which was around 2 hours. No OH warning. If you're worried about firmware messing up external recording, don't fret. Seems to be good so far. Doing further tests to see if anything is improved - but good to know nothing has diminished.




That's great!

Did you have this setting enabled or disabled:


Useful messaging is now displayed when [HDMI display: Camera+External monitor] and [Overheat control: on] settings are enabled.


----------



## Quackator (Aug 27, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Maybe you should order a Red .



Blackmagic Design Ursa 4.6 G2 for me.
FullHD in up to 300fps, BRAW, global shutter. And EF mount.

While I'd love the R5 as a stills camera, everything I would use
it for isn't happening at the moment. No concerts, no high end
corporate events, no congresses, no restaurants advertising
new stuff, no general nightlife. That was 70% of my business 
before.

On the other hand everbody is scrambling to be seen on the 
internet. Board meetings and general assemblies are going 
virtual, Workshops go webinar instead of personal presence,
and all this asks more video time than the R5 can deliver.

My business has evolved into being more or less a video 
company. Streaming high quality from up to ten video sources
to several platforms parallel is now generating 80% of my
turnover. 5D Mk2 / 5D Mk3 / 5D Mk4 / 1D-X are still being 
used for that, along with dedicated video cameras. They don't
overheat, they can do what the R5 can't. And 1080p is enough.

With a sober view, unfortunately Canon isn't offering what 
I need in the R5. Maybe the next camera is an unpdated R 
without IBIS (no IBIS -> no overheating), offering 1080p120
with a global shutter and modest 30 MP sensor with the 
ergonomics of the R5?


----------



## pmjm (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> I think you should be safe with external recording time.



I hope so, but my livelihood is going to depend on this so I won't update until I know for sure, or if I can confirm that the firmware update is reversable.


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 27, 2020)

I skip read the whole 4 pages, what's going on again?


My bloody R5 still ain't here  looks like I'll be into the next firmware before it arrives :S


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

bytebuster said:


> I wonder if the R6 base firmware already includes some of these fixes (especially the one related to better thermal handling). Because I don't see any firmware update listed for it on the Canon website


I would guess Canon is indeed applying those fixes and testing them, while waiting for real-world feedback on the R5 fixes. It won't be long.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

arthurbikemad said:


> I skip read the whole 4 pages, what's going on again?


New firmware, slightly better recording times, better recovery times indoors and outdoors (though the latter requires perhaps a bit more effort given what you are trying to do)...


----------



## pmjm (Aug 27, 2020)

Quackator said:


> With a sober view, unfortunately Canon isn't offering what
> I need in the R5. Maybe the next camera is an unpdated R
> without IBIS (no IBIS -> no overheating), offering 1080p120
> with a global shutter and modest 30 MP sensor with the
> ergonomics of the R5?



That's a very fair assessment. I do a lot of self-filming without any help so if the BlackMagic offered continuous eye-AF that'd be an instant-buy for me. I'm sticking with the R5 due to being heavily invested in EF glass, but with an external recorder. The whole rig is a little unwieldy, but with AC power it films for 4 hours at 4KHQ, with just 5-10 minutes downtime for cooldown to get another hour of use. This yields easily editable ProRes footage too so it's beneficial from several angles. Might want to consider it, even though it's a kludgy workaround.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 27, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Omg! So you can remove modes like on 1-series?! I’ve been searching for that info since release. Excellent



Page 811 in the manual, it's in the orange menus. "Restrict Shooting Modes"


----------



## janmaly (Aug 27, 2020)

Let's say, this is a good start! Extremely quick FW update for Canon. BUT this must not be the final "fix". 

FW 1.0.0 showed me overheating warning on a hot day (28C) just about after 10min of camera turned on in standby (after +12hours turned off overnight). No videos/photos taken. Basically unusable for videomakers.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 27, 2020)

janmaly said:


> Let's say, this is a good start! Extremely quick FW update for Canon. BUT this must not be the final "fix".
> 
> FW 1.0.0 showed me overheating warning on a hot day (28C) just about after 10min of camera turned on in standby (after +12hours turned off overnight). No videos/photos taken. Basically unusable for videomakers.


I don’t believe you. If that is true, you turned your camera on did nothing with it no photos or video and it gave you an overheat warning after ten minutes it is broken as that is not what other users are reporting.


----------



## Kam (Aug 27, 2020)

My only concern is the R6. It is hit the hardest since it has no full sensor 4K modes that don't overheat.

I don't personally know many videographers besides event videographers who record more than 2 minutes at a time. I personally don't when making commercials etc.

If they apply this same fix to the R6, so I can record lots of short clips, I will be ordering two. If not, looks like I will be going Sony A7S3 or A7IV when it comes out. 

Anyone preordered the R6 here?


----------



## Avenger 2.0 (Aug 27, 2020)

Kam said:


> My only concern is the R6. It is hit the hardest since it has no full sensor 4K modes that don't overheat.


But there is unlimited line skipping 1080p from 2008


----------



## CvH (Aug 27, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> In my own thermal tests in hot sun, the camera was quite predictable and did overheat, and disabling IBIS and the EVF made things cool much faster and last longer. It makes perfect sense to me that even idle, just running the processor and EVF and IBIS, produces enough heat inside the sealed body that must flow away from the sensitive components where temp sensors will be placed. So no conspiracy after all, just a sub optimal algorithm that has now been improved. Can it be improved more without compromising safety and long term reliability of the camera? Can lighter codecs help? How many people actually need this and cannot just use an external recorder vs all the whining and negativity?



I am a still shooter mainly landscape and travel photography. I rarely use the video features. 

Do you think it’s unreasonable to expect the R5 costs AUD$7000 to able to shoot stills all day and then occasionally shoot up to 5 minutes of HQ K4 and/or 4K 120fps video reliably when I want/need?

Getting an external recorder isn’t economic and practical as I hardly shoot video. The cost and extra space/weight when travelling and hiking just for occasional <5 minutes of high resolution 4K video.


----------



## canonnews (Aug 27, 2020)

Chz said:


> I am a still shooter mainly landscape and travel photography. I rarely use the video features.
> 
> Do you think it’s unreasonable to expect the R5 costs AUD$7000 to able to shoot stills all day and then occasionally shoot up to 5 minutes of HQ K4 and/or 4K 120fps video reliably when I want/need?
> 
> Getting an external recorder isn’t economic and practical as I hardly shoot video. The cost and extra space/weight when travelling and hiking just for occasional <5 minutes of high resolution 4K video.


but if you rarely use video features then this is the camera for you. it's people that use this as a true hyrbrid that have a problem with it, when their work is more 50/50. then it has issues.

also if you rarely shoot video I would have to wonder if you even really need 4k oversampled versus 4K30p normally, as nolifedigital has shown, there's little difference between the two - especially for those cases you need to run for much longer.


----------



## Jim Corbett (Aug 27, 2020)

I have a better firmware update: don't buy it for video! It's still a better - and cheaper - camera for wildlife, landscapes and portraits than the Sony's "flagship" in variety of aspects.
Forget the marketing blunder and ignore the whole online stupidity of click bait drama queens.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 27, 2020)

It's sad how places like DPReview are completely taken over by trolls. While before there were some of them, now almost every single comment is total trolling or subjective opinions. They should do like IMDB and switch them off completely, there is no value added.


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 27, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> It's sad how places like DPReview are completely taken over by trolls. While before there were some of them, now almost every single comment is total trolling or subjective opinions. They should do like IMDB and switch them off completely, there is no value added.



And it mostly seems to come from a single brand, a filter option based on the 'gear owned' would hide 95% of the trolls.


----------



## Kam (Aug 27, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> I have a better firmware update: don't buy it for video! It's still a better - and cheaper - camera for wildlife, landscapes and portraits then the Sony's "flagship" in variety of aspects.
> Forget the marketing blunder and ignore the whole online stupidity of click bait drama queens.


I really can't agree with that statement, and it makes me highly doubt your qualifications in marketing.
The demand for video content has been higher than ever, with youtube growing at astounding speeds, along with social media platforms such as Instagram and TikTok pushing more and more video oriented features. 

There is a reason that Sony, Panasonic, and Canon are all pushing their hybrids, or video oriented cameras as much as possible.

There is a reason Canon marketed this as the ultimate Video Hybrid.

If you market something, and it doesn't do what you marketed it as, it isn't a marketing blunder, it is false advertising. This firmware is not optional. It is necessary.


----------



## canonnews (Aug 27, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> It's sad how places like DPReview are completely taken over by trolls. While before there were some of them, now almost every single comment is total trolling or subjective opinions. They should do like IMDB and switch them off completely, there is no value added.


what i find interesting about dpreview is how many sub 200 message accounts are flooding the R forums. All of them morally offended by the R5 and obviously had on and returned it (well that's perhaps an exaggeration). 

you know .. like how many new accounts popped up here


----------



## Kit. (Aug 27, 2020)

Kam said:


> I really can't agree with that statement, and it makes me highly doubt your qualifications in marketing.
> The demand for video content has been higher than ever, with youtube growing at astounding speeds, along with social media platforms such as Instagram and TikTok pushing more and more video oriented features.


Do they actually need a $4k 8K-capable camera with bird eye in flight autofocus, though? Would they _pay that amount of money_ just for their TikTok camera?

Or is this a camera for a slightly different user?


----------



## janmaly (Aug 27, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I don’t believe you. If that is true, you turned your camera on did nothing with it no photos or video and it gave you an overheat warning after ten minutes it is broken as that is not what other users are reporting.


Beleive in what you want. Take your R5 out of bag on a sunny day, turn it on, hang it on your nack, for about 10min randomly look into a EVF/display and after that time check you video mode - 8K/4K HQ. Pretty sure your camera will look exctly the same as mine. No neet to take any videos/photos. 

Unfortunately have no other proof than this. As soon at this happens again I will capture more evidence. ))


----------



## Kam (Aug 27, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Do they actually need a $4k 8K-capable camera with bird eye in flight autofocus, though? Would they _pay that amount of money_ just for their TikTok camera?
> 
> Or is this a camera for a slightly different user?


Oh no, I am not implying you need an R5 for social media videos. I am saying that if you purchase an R5, it needs to have the video features it claims. It was marketed as a hybrid camera breakthrough. It needs to be usable in equal capacity.


----------



## Del Paso (Aug 27, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Out of all the reviewers, Gordon is one of the only ones worth anything. Constructive, intelligent, and not a sensationalist. Adult enough to be nuanced and careful even when criticism is warranted, and able to realize when it is not.
> 
> His conclusions make a ton of physical sense. The amount of capability in this camera generates real, problematic heat, just like any decent test shows where people aren't forcing it or disabling safeties. Canon is using 3 sensors to protect internal components for long life of the components, just like any other modern high speed circuit that throttles or shuts down (hard drives, CPU, tons of things have thermal limits). Overheating ASIC and sensors repeatedly can and will degrade them.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more !


----------



## mppix (Aug 27, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> On Gordon's video around 55s, the external one is near to the ports. The two internal ones are near the AF & Imaging sensor. That's what Canon UK told him.


From a technical perspective, this is getting more confusing with every new bit of information.

Two temperature sensors on imaging sensor assembly (and none in the Digic X) suggests that the microprocessor does not overheat at all. However if true, internal vs external recording should have approximately the same limitations.

I doubt this is information is accurate. Any microprocessor design should have on-chip thermal sensors (it's "free"). Furthermore, I'd expect that CFexpress cards also have internal thermal sensing (not sure but any NVMe disk should have that). Finally, a thermal management system based on 3 temperature sensors seems overly simple (read amateur hour) for a product like this.
This may just be the "dumbed down" information for the public..


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

mppix said:


> From a technical perspective, this is getting more confusing with every new bit of information.
> 
> Two temperature sensors on imaging sensor assembly (and none in the Digic X) suggests that the microprocessor does not overheat at all. However if true, internal vs external recording should have approximately the same limitations.
> 
> ...


Delkin do have a temp sensor on their CFE, I would assume others do also.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

janmaly said:


> Beleive in what you want. Take your R5 out of bag on a sunny day, turn it on, hang it on your nack, for about 10min randomly look into a EVF/display and after that time check you video mode - 8K/4K HQ. Pretty sure your camera will look exctly the same as mine. No neet to take any videos/photos.
> 
> Unfortunately have no other proof than this. As soon at this happens again I will capture more evidence. ))



Have you contacted Canon? I've certainly not experienced that. I've shot for multiple hours with the camera, and if I am sensible then I can still get a few mins of high bitrate in the first part. Its rubbish weather here today, so I can't try out anything with the new firmware.

In the video, Gordon says Canon confirms if you are using sleep or eco modes, it will start the cooldown, just not as well as complete power off. I've been using both to maximise my video clip side.

But 10 mins in the menu - I would contact Canon as it is possible there is a small fault on yours.


----------



## Laytonp (Aug 27, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Out of all the reviewers, Gordon is one of the only ones worth anything. Constructive, intelligent, and not a sensationalist. Adult enough to be nuanced and careful even when criticism is warranted, and able to realize when it is not.
> 
> His conclusions make a ton of physical sense. The amount of capability in this camera generates real, problematic heat, just like any decent test shows where people aren't forcing it or disabling safeties. Canon is using 3 sensors to protect internal components for long life of the components, just like any other modern high speed circuit that throttles or shuts down (hard drives, CPU, tons of things have thermal limits). Overheating ASIC and sensors repeatedly can and will degrade them.
> 
> ...


Well Said!


----------



## canonnews (Aug 27, 2020)

mppix said:


> From a technical perspective, this is getting more confusing with every new bit of information.
> 
> Two temperature sensors on imaging sensor assembly (and none in the Digic X) suggests that the microprocessor does not overheat at all. However if true, internal vs external recording should have approximately the same limitations.




not really. increased CPU temperature will increase ambient. what it probably means is that Canon is more concerned about a temperature lower than the threshold temperature of the CPU.



mppix said:


> I doubt this is information is accurate. Any microprocessor design should have on-chip thermal sensors (it's "free"). Furthermore, I'd expect that CFexpress cards also have internal thermal sensing (not sure but any NVMe disk should have that). Finally, a thermal management system based on 3 temperature sensors seems overly simple (read amateur hour) for a product like this.


they could be simply referring to the actual descrete thermal sensors.


----------



## docsmith (Aug 27, 2020)

While all this has been going on, I played with a 1DX III. Amazing camera. But, on the last day I had it, I transferred 1,000 images, then immediately took out my CFExpress card. I was actually shocked at its temperature...I would call it very warm. 

These things do get hot. And I would prefer a camera that will stand the test of time.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Have you contacted Canon? I've certainly not experienced that. I've shot for multiple hours with the camera, and if I am sensible then I can still get a few mins of high bitrate in the first part. Its rubbish weather here today, so I can't try out anything with the new firmware.
> 
> In the video, Gordon says Canon confirms if you are using sleep or eco modes, it will start the cooldown, just not as well as complete power off. I've been using both to maximise my video clip side.
> 
> But 10 mins in the menu - I would contact Canon as it is possible there is a small fault on yours.


I just sat on my balcony. It's nearly 7pm, I would guess the air temp is around 25 deg, humidity the same as where I did a test earlier. I sat and went through every menu, took pictures of the menus, and then left it on liveview.

before starting, 15mins on 8k25 - which is the same as my tests with the new firmware which I posted on page 3 of this thread.

10 minutes after, I still have 15 mins video. If yours doesnt show this after the firmware, I would contact Canon.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

docsmith said:


> While all this has been going on, I played with a 1DX III. Amazing camera. But, on the last day I had it, I transferred 1,000 images, then immediately took out my CFExpress card. I was actually shocked at its temperature...I would call it very warm.
> 
> These things do get hot. And I would prefer a camera that will stand the test of time.



Yep they do. But they also cool quite quickly if not being used. I think even ejecting but leaving in the camera will cool it down rapidly. Given the buffer in the 1DX, albeit with smaller images, you may find mild throttling if it gets too hot. Certainly the Delkin do this once the card reaches 86 degrees iirc (might be 88).

As for the heat trapped inside the camera, well that's a different story....


----------



## CvH (Aug 27, 2020)

canonnews said:


> but if you rarely use video features then this is the camera for you. it's people that use this as a true hyrbrid that have a problem with it, when their work is more 50/50. then it has issues.
> 
> also if you rarely shoot video I would have to wonder if you even really need 4k oversampled versus 4K30p normally, as nolifedigital has shown, there's little difference between the two - especially for those cases you need to run for much longer.



Yes, I will get the R5 regardless. That's the still camera I have been waiting for since I have the 5d3 and R. Just wish that I can use the the 4k 120fps for a few minutes on rare occasions. Agree that 4k30p probably more than I need and I don't care the 8k at all.

I get a little annoyed that anyone said that they want to shoot some high frame rates were told to look for an external recording solution as not everyone needs to shoot the 4k hq/60p/120p for extended time.


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 27, 2020)

mppix said:


> [..]I doubt this is information is accurate. Any microprocessor design should have on-chip thermal sensors (it's "free") [..]



It is indeed basically free to add one into the silicon, but you have to know what you're doing and actually talk to the software people. During my time at a silicon vendor we had multiple SoCs that had sensors on silicon. But all mention of that was scrubbed from datasheets and software, since a lot of mistakes were made:

putting it in the 'wrong' place on the die, next to a coprocessor that consumes a lot of power
playing with the sensor design so readings between different revisions don't match
forgetting to document the gates that disable it by default
And more. This was because at design time there was no requirement for a temperature sensor. These SoCs were considered 'low power', so thermal management wasn't strictly needed.

Also, there's a big difference between these 2 sentences:

"There are 3 sensors, which we use in the algorithm"
"There are 3 sensors which we use in the algorithm"
I don't think we can be certain that there are *only* 3 sensors in the camera, just that Canon UK told Gordon that 3 are being used. And I suspect a lot of details are getting lost in the chain from Canon.jp engineer → Canon.jp marketing → Canon.uk marketing → Gordon.


----------



## festr (Aug 27, 2020)




----------



## adigoks (Aug 27, 2020)

Kam said:


> My only concern is the R6. It is hit the hardest since it has no full sensor 4K modes that don't overheat.
> 
> I don't personally know many videographers besides event videographers who record more than 2 minutes at a time. I personally don't when making commercials etc.
> 
> ...






screenshot taken from nolife youtube channel


----------



## Besisika (Aug 27, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> After 10 mins with the fan, it's of course not as cold as the air con, but it is cool to the touch. I did quickly take it away to plonk in a battery and the record times are back to 10 mins. Didnt do a record. Leaving it for a further 10 mins.
> 
> A the further 10 mins takes it up to 11mins 52, and then I realised the 64GB card was in, doh! Put the 128GB in and I get 15 mins I get at the start. So a significant improvement over what I got with fw 1.0 using the same fan (2hrs). Changing the algorithm has certainly made some welcome changes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, I am ordering the fan. Sounds like a great solution for my work flow.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 27, 2020)

So I’ve now had my r5 for almost a month. 
i took it travelling through hot weather all of august. I shoot with the 35m rf, autofocus and ibis always on, screen at the highest brightness, evf as well...
I’m a 40% photo / 60% video shooter. Run and gun style. For video, I only shoot at 24pHQ4K, burst of 30sec/1min. 
I shot a lot with it already, sometimes out shooting for the entire day, shooting over 250gb of footage. I was very worried about OH, but as of today, I report that I still have NEVER SEEN the red overheating icon show up on my screen. That’s my experience with it, but I’m not trying to push it to force it to overheat like most trolls on the internet. I’m just using it in real life. The limit decreases 5 mins by 5 mins. So when I start it shows me 25 mins. Then later it goes to 20 mins. The worst I got was 15 mins. So I still had a lot of margin left to shoot.
I think that for most hybrid shooters, wedding, etc... the camera will be fine. People just can’t handle that they were given a limitation. Like a kid to whom you tel he can eat only 5 candies. We would get sick by the 4th and stop on his on if you hadn’t said anything, but because you limited him, all of a sudden he wants 10 of them.

Now the over heating is not a problème to me anymore, I do have another issue that doesn’t let me sleep at night though: the A7Siii!! The images I’m seeing on YouTube are so sexy! I love the image of my r5, but I personally have a preference for the Sony look. So I’m hesitating to switch to Sony and go all in on the fe mount.

I would give you guys my Instagram handle to check out all the r5 footage I got so far but not sure I’m im allowed to “advertise” myself here ....

Ps. I think that most people complaining about the r5 limits are the people who never actually tried it. So stupid to judge without knowing. Humans ...
It was the same with the R. Everyone bashed it at first, and about a year ago, every YouTuber started posting videos “I was wrong about the eos R” and all of a sudden it was the worlds best camera.


----------



## vangelismm (Aug 27, 2020)

Actual temp and shutdown temp should be visible on the screen.

I am ok if overheats within 5 minutes or 30 minutes, does not matter.

What i am no buying is this recovery timer, it is not real.


----------



## Kit. (Aug 27, 2020)

Kam said:


> Oh no, I am not implying you need an R5 for social media videos. I am saying that if you purchase an R5, it needs to have the video features it claims.


If _I_ purchase an R5, it needs to have stills, ergonomics, ruggedness, and durability performance it claims. That's what I'm willing to pay $4k for. The ability to record short video clips is just a bonus.

Now, this camera is not getting any significantly improved video performance _without reducing its value to me_. And me is the target market for this camera. Not TikTokers, not forum trolls.



Kam said:


> It was marketed as a hybrid camera breakthrough. It needs to be usable in equal capacity.


It doesn't. It might have needed a more honest marketing, though.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Actual temp and shutdown temp should be visible on the screen.
> 
> I am ok if overheats within 5 minutes or 30 minutes, does not matter.
> 
> What i am no buying is this recovery timer, it is not real.


I've submitted that request to Canon already about providing some warning to when it will overheat. Rather than the overheat, although many have found you still have extra time. Still I agree, some sort of temp on the screen would allow you to adjust your shooting a little to perhaps maximise.

More people who log it with Canon, more chance we have (not saying it's great, but right now I think they are more responsive).

The recovery time has improved, no doubt about it that external cooling improved times for me in my tests today. Sure I want to do more but previously I got no where with a USB fan - took 2 hours. Today, I cooled it down after it hit max temp after 15 mins. That was indoors in a well air-conned appt. Outside it is clearly more tricky. If the sunshine comes back out tomorrow I will do some more tests. Over at DPR, one of the guys in the forums has asked me to repeat the tests with the screen open, and I should also do them with AF and IBIS.

It depends on your use-case(s) as to whether the R5 would work for you or not.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

Kit. said:


> It doesn't. It might have needed a more honest marketing, though.


Ha ha. I agree, but soooooo many companies push that boundary, and every news outlet certainly seems to (if only cause they are forced to in order to draw people away from Social Media outlets). I think most rational people will sift through the various sites and people they trust, perhaps wait and then decide.

I broke my habit and bought the R5 immediately, but that was purely cause I don't know how long I will be still living in HK and here we pay no sales tax. In the UK the R5 would cost me £1000 more (20% sales tax). True I take a gamble on warranty, but worst case I have to courier it back to HK. Still won't cost me anywhere near £1000.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> So I’ve now had my r5 for almost a month.
> i took it travelling through hot weather all of august. I shoot with the 35m rf, autofocus and ibis always on, screen at the highest brightness, evf as well...
> I’m a 40% photo / 60% video shooter. Run and gun style. For video, I only shoot at 24pHQ4K, burst of 30sec/1min.
> I shot a lot with it already, sometimes out shooting for the entire day, shooting over 250gb of footage. I was very worried about OH, but as of today, I report that I still have NEVER SEEN the red overheating icon show up on my screen. That’s my experience with it, but I’m not trying to push it to force it to overheat like most trolls on the internet. I’m just using it in real life. The limit decreases 5 mins by 5 mins. So when I start it shows me 25 mins. Then later it goes to 20 mins. The worst I got was 15 mins. So I still had a lot of margin left to shoot.
> ...



You got to travel. Lucky Man. Thanks for sharing your experience

Re Sony - is that video and thus just the way it has been graded perhaps? Or are you talking stills (which I don't think you are).


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 27, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> You got to travel. Lucky Man. Thanks for sharing your experience
> 
> Re Sony - is that video and thus just the way it has been graded perhaps? Or are you talking stills (which I don't think you are).



yes, I travelled all around Europe by car. It’s been amazing cause it’s American free this year. I love Americans, but it’s nice to have less people for once 

about the Sony, it’s all the footage Ive seen so far. Particularly Philip blooms footage, and also Brandon Li. Can’t ignore either Gerald who decided to cancel the c300 to get the a7siii instead. But in general, I have always preferred Sony’s image quality. Last year, I shot with an eos r and a7riv. I still preferred the internal 8 bit image much more than the ninja v 10 but eos r. It’s my personal preference. 
when I got my r5, it was obviously far superior for video than the a7riv so I swithced, but now that the a7siii, I can sleep at night anymore.


----------



## vangelismm (Aug 27, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> I've submitted that request to Canon already about providing some warning to when it will overheat. Rather than the overheat, although many have found you still have extra time. Still I agree, some sort of temp on the screen would allow you to adjust your shooting a little to perhaps maximise.
> 
> More people who log it with Canon, more chance we have (not saying it's great, but right now I think they are more responsive).
> 
> ...



Did you cooled it in 15 minutes to full recording time?
That is a great news.


----------



## Kam (Aug 27, 2020)

adigoks said:


> View attachment 192455
> 
> 
> screenshot taken from nolife youtube channel


You are awesome.


----------



## Famateur (Aug 27, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I love Americans, but it’s nice to have less people for once...



Agreed!

I'm an American, and even I get tired of the average American tourist.* My visit to the Grand Canyon with my family this summer was orders of magnitude more enjoyable because there was almost no one there. No need to go early to claim a tripod space for sunrise or sunset at the famous viewpoints! Just peaceful silence and stunning views...

*Tips for American tourists: 

#1 Be polite and respectful of people, places and culture.
#2 Learn a little of the language -- especially words that help with #1.
#3 Wear a pin of the Canadian flag.


----------



## mppix (Aug 27, 2020)

canonnews said:


> not really. increased CPU temperature will increase ambient. what it probably means is that Canon is more concerned about a temperature lower than the threshold temperature of the CPU.


No, a microchip runs tens or more degrees hotter than its ambient, especially when doing something like transcoding 8K. 
Also, you cannot protect the silicon by by measuring ambient; you need the thermal sensor on the die (where exactly is a nontrivial question).



canonnews said:


> they could be simply referring to the actual descrete thermal sensors.


Maybe..


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 27, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I'm an American, and even I get tired of the average American tourist.* My visit to the Grand Canyon with my family this summer was orders of magnitude more enjoyable because there was almost no one there. No need to go early to claim a tripod space for sunrise or sunset at the famous viewpoints! Just peaceful silence and stunning views...
> 
> ...



Hilarious. Advice for Americans?

Read number 1, then read number 3.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Did you cooled it in 15 minutes to full recording time?
> That is a great news.



Yes but that was in a air con appt, with temp probably below the Canon rating of 23 degrees. So the fan would have been blowing cool air, and the Aircon unit when I used that, was at 18 deg and on turbo mode  

We need to see if others find similar values, in case somehow I messed up, but I did try and keep everything consisent

I'm gonna do some more tests tomorrow to see if it holds true.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I'm an American, and even I get tired of the average American tourist.* My visit to the Grand Canyon with my family this summer was orders of magnitude more enjoyable because there was almost no one there. No need to go early to claim a tripod space for sunrise or sunset at the famous viewpoints! Just peaceful silence and stunning views...
> 
> ...



Great advice! eH? 

Haha!


----------



## mppix (Aug 27, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> It is indeed basically free to add one into the silicon, but you have to know what you're doing and actually talk to the software people. During my time at a silicon vendor we had multiple SoCs that had sensors on silicon. But all mention of that was scrubbed from datasheets and software, since a lot of mistakes were made:
> 
> putting it in the 'wrong' place on the die, next to a coprocessor that consumes a lot of power
> playing with the sensor design so readings between different revisions don't match
> ...


I can totally see this happening but 'low power' is also relative. When Canon designed the Digic X with its design power (I'd estimate it somewhere around 5W based on power consumption), they must have realized very early on that thermals will be challenging. In this case, engineers tend to put more sensors in the package and make sure that software engineers can implement their thermal models to track temperature as well as possible.



koenkooi said:


> Also, there's a big difference between these 2 sentences:
> 
> "There are 3 sensors, which we use in the algorithm"
> "There are 3 sensors which we use in the algorithm"
> I don't think we can be certain that there are *only* 3 sensors in the camera, just that Canon UK told Gordon that 3 are being used. And I suspect a lot of details are getting lost in the chain from Canon.jp engineer → Canon.jp marketing → Canon.uk marketing → Gordon.


Someone else suggested that "3" may refer to the discrete sensors. I could believe that they have 3 discrete sensors in addition to anywhere between 2-10+ integrated ones...


----------



## Dragon (Aug 27, 2020)

Able said:


> Not going that far but I’m selling all my canon shit and moving to Sony


Enjoy the customer service (not).


----------



## Jethro (Aug 28, 2020)

Really excellent review! Comprehensive and honest (I liked his separate review of the photography mode as well). Interesting about the enhanced ability to do 30 second clips with the firmware upgrade.


----------



## canonnews (Aug 28, 2020)

mppix said:


> No, a microchip runs tens or more degrees hotter than its ambient, especially when doing something like transcoding 8K.


the CPU isn't encoding. they would have a descreet h.265 encoder DSP built into DIGIC X for that. h.265 is actually easier to encode than it is to decode. and RAW of course is even easier.

we have no idea what temperatures canon is worried about but with three or more sensors, it's more than just core temp.


----------



## canonnews (Aug 28, 2020)

Able said:


> Not going that far but I’m selling all my canon shit and moving to Sony


yeah because they never had overheating issues.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 28, 2020)

canonnews said:


> yeah because they never had overheating issues.



Don't argue with him, just let him go. We'll be better off.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 28, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Yes but that was in a air con appt, with temp probably below the Canon rating of 23 degrees. So the fan would have been blowing cool air, and the Aircon unit when I used that, was at 18 deg and on turbo mode
> 
> We need to see if others find similar values, in case somehow I messed up, but I did try and keep everything consisent
> 
> I'm gonna do some more tests tomorrow to see if it holds true.



I did another quick test today (same settings video & camera - 8K25 etc)

Test 1 - 25m 43s - baseline

15mins on USB fan - restored to 15 mins of shooting according to the screen

Test 2 - 25m 37s - screen flipped out 180 degrees to the side of the camera (DPR member wanted the comparison).

The USB fan in an aircon appt definitely works well, and the screen didnt appear to make any difference to the recording.

I will try a test with IBIS and Auto Focus to see how much that impacts but the sun is out and is beckoning...


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 28, 2020)

Since the sensors actually work now, couldnt a person do a hardware mod to keep it cool now? Like thermal paste, pads, or a little ventilation


----------



## mppix (Aug 28, 2020)

canonnews said:


> the CPU isn't encoding. they would have a descreet h.265 encoder DSP built into DIGIC X for that. h.265 is actually easier to encode than it is to decode. and RAW of course is even easier.


Cameras dont have cpus, they have microprocessors. Of course they transcode in hardware; that hw generates heat...



canonnews said:


> we have no idea what temperatures canon is worried about but with three or more sensors, it's more than just core temp.


What I said last post, paraphrased.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 28, 2020)

mppix said:


> Cameras dont have cpus, they have microprocessors. Of course they transcode in hardware; that hw generates heat...



I am splitting hairs here, but the microprocessor (Digic) on Canons contains at least 1 ARM core do they not and that ARM core is the CPU? Other parts of the silicon handle I/O and video or Image processing functions, AF functions, and presumably the touch screen....


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 28, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> I did another quick test today (same settings video & camera - 8K25 etc)
> 
> Test 1 - 25m 43s - baseline
> 
> ...



I know I am an edge case (or nut case, or both  ), but for anyone else who may fit the category. I spent a couple of hours in the Aviary this afternoon.

I shot about 1000 pics, and 20 clips at 8k25 totally 16 mins - no overheating. I did flip to using a 5DsR from time to time, and left the fan pointing at the R5 body. We had just had a thunderstorm, so no doubt that helped - probably around 24 deg C and 70 percent humidity. But for my use cases, mainly stills and some video, firmware 1.1 makes that quite possible now.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 28, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> Since the sensors actually work now, couldnt a person do a hardware mod to keep it cool now? Like thermal paste, pads, or a little ventilation



When did the sensors not work?


----------



## mppix (Aug 29, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> I am splitting hairs here, but the microprocessor (Digic) on Canons contains at least 1 ARM core do they not and that ARM core is the CPU? Other parts of the silicon handle I/O and video or Image processing functions, AF functions, and presumably the touch screen....



AFAIK, Digic is an application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC). You are right, it almost certainly has a general purpose processor of the "embedded kind," capable of running ARM instruction sets. Not sure how fully-fledged it is; do you know what core they use?

In my work, we tend to distinguish CPU that are capable of running some form of general purpose OS (e.g. RaspberryPI) and microcontroller units (MCU) that are often real-time oriented but run at most some rudimentary "OS" (e.g. Arduino).
This may not be the generally accepted definition so apologies if that comment is easy to misunderstand.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 29, 2020)

mppix said:


> AFAIK, Digic is an application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC). You are right, it almost certainly has a general purpose processor of the "embedded kind," capable of running ARM instruction sets. Not sure how fully-fledged it is; do you know what core they use?
> 
> In my work, we tend to distinguish CPU that are capable of running some form of general purpose OS (e.g. RaspberryPI) and microcontroller units (MCU) that are often real-time oriented but run at most some rudimentary "OS" (e.g. Arduino).
> This may not be the generally accepted definition so apologies if that comment is easy to misunderstand.



Gotcha, thanks

The only info I could find on Arm cores unsurprisingly, came from CHDK around the Digic 6 / 7









Digic 6-7 Porting


Cameras based on the Digic 6 and later processor differ significantly from previous generation cameras. CHDK support is for Digic 6 cameras is a generally functional as of 2019, and preliminary support for Digic 7 exists as of 2020. The page collects information relevant to creating CHDK ports...




chdk.fandom.com





What I didnt realise is they possibly have a separate "gpu" managing the screen, also licensed, and perhaps also on Digic or a discreet chip? I'm thinking that for IP reasons, Canon would probably prefer not to have other manufacturers chips visible, therefore integration onto Digic keeps it all hidden unless you go poking around inside programmatically.

And the white paper on the IDX III from Canon
_
•Improved noise-reduction processing.
•Sharpness-based image processing.
•Dedicated sections (“blocks”) of the processor for specific Dual PixelCMOS AF tasks, and for subject detection (including the new Head Detection AF, and AF tracking capabilities for both viewfinder and Live View shooting).

•Image processing performance up to approximately 3.1x fasterthan two DIGIC 6+ processors.
•Continuous processing speeds up to approximately 380x fasterthan two DIGIC 6+ processors.
•A significant reduction in power consumption vs. previous Dual DIGIC 6+ processors. _

Of course which of those improvements are due to reduction in fab size, improved algorithms in hw or where I don't know. So extrapolation between the Digic 6 / 7 and the X will have to wait until someone can "hack" a lower end model ie not in a mirrorless or dslr.


----------



## TheSalvatore (Sep 7, 2020)

NEW TRICK FOUND ON YOUTUBE FROM FILM POET TO BYPASS OVERHEATING INSTANTLY!!! 



 LOOKS PROMISING


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> NEW TRICK FOUND ON YOUTUBE FROM FILM POET TO BYPASS OVERHEATING INSTANTLY!!!
> 
> 
> 
> LOOKS PROMISING


How is bypassing a measure put in to maintain reliability ‘PROMISING’? It looks moronic to me. One thing I do know, I will never buy a secondhand R5, god only knows what moronic bypasses might have been used on it to mistreat it.


----------



## TheSalvatore (Sep 7, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> How is bypassing a measure put in to maintain reliability ‘PROMISING’? It looks moronic to me. One thing I do know, I will never buy a secondhand R5, god only knows what moronic bypasses might have been used on it to mistreat it.



Then don't. It's for those that already purchased the R5.


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> Then don't. It's for those that already purchased the R5.


You miss the point, for many people the reliability of Canon cameras is not only a purchasing positive but also it is good when it becomes time to sell. If no end of idiots are deliberately working around features designed to maintain reliability just so they can use their cameras outside the design specs it is going to have an impact on everybody including me, and that pisses me off.

i suspect a combination of several things will happen, the purchase price of the camera will stay high, the secondhand value will be lower than other Canon cameras, warranty claims normally covered will be refused for any and every possible technicality, the R5 will get a reputation as unreliable (which will be unfair because many failures will be because people are working around the design limits).

i truthfully don’t understand all this bullshit. I get the tool for the job, in many cases the tools I use are overkill but that is what I invest in for reliability and customer service. If I am asked to do an 8k production, however casual, there is no way on earth I am using an R5 as an A camera, it is not what it is designed for so I am not doing my customer, or myself, any favors.


----------



## TheSalvatore (Sep 7, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> You miss the point, for many people the reliability of Canon cameras is not only a purchasing positive but also it is good when it becomes time to sell. If no end of idiots are deliberately working around features designed to maintain reliability just so they can use their cameras outside the design specs it is going to have an impact on everybody including me, and that pisses me off.
> 
> i suspect a combination of several things will happen, the purchase price of the camera will stay high, the secondhand value will be lower than other Canon cameras, warranty claims normally covered will be refused for any and every possible technicality, the R5 will get a reputation as unreliable (which will be unfair because many failures will be because people are working around the design limits).
> 
> i truthfully don’t understand all this bullshit. I get the tool for the job, in many cases the tools I use are overkill but that is what I invest in for reliability and customer service. If I am asked to do an 8k production, however casual, there is no way on earth I am using an R5 as an A camera, it is not what it is designed for so I am not doing my customer, or myself, any favors.



Yes I do get what you meant. But what I'm trying to say is for those that already have the R5 and doesn't mind having this to work around with, "if ever" Canon releases any firmware to eliminate the overheating issue. Because it's really a pain in the ass for this current issue.  Yes I also agreed with you that the 8K is overkilling.


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> Yes I do get what you meant. But what I'm trying to say is for those that already have the R5 and doesn't mind having this to work around with, "if ever" Canon releases any firmware to eliminate the overheating issue. Because it's really a pain in the ass for this current issue.  Yes I also agreed with you that the 8K is overkilling.


You are still missing the point, IT IS NOT AN OVERHEATING ISSUE, IT IS A DESIGN LIMITATION. If the design limits your use then get something else that doesn’t.


----------



## TheSalvatore (Sep 7, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> You are still missing the point, IT IS NOT AN OVERHEATING ISSUE, IT IS A DESIGN LIMITATION. If the design limits your use then get something else that doesn’t.



Neither are you getting the point. It's just a work around for current R5 users that are affected at the moment. Of course at their own risk. And of course, choose something else if people that don't like its (R5,R6) design and limitation. Simple. And posting the video is just to share with current R5 users to at least help them out if they ever want to risk it in desperate moments (As some countries like mine, temp can be 30-36C). I'm just sharing what I've found. That's all. Don't get why you have to be so worked up. Don't like, don't buy. Move on, life is simple.


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> Neither are you getting the point. It's just a work around for current R5 users that are affected at the moment. Of course at their own risk. And of course, choose something else if people that don't like its (R5,R6) design and limitation. Simple. And posting the video is just to share with current R5 users to at least help them out if they ever want to risk it in desperate moments (As some countries like mine, temp can be 30-36C). I'm just sharing what I've found. That's all. Don't get why you have to be so worked up. Don't like, don't buy. Move on, life is simple.


Because people that do buy and persist the conflation of ‘issue’ and ‘design’ will impact everybody, me included. Personally I don’t want to be impacted by others stupidity, everybody that got an R5 knew the design limitations, even the people in the first batch because word was out immediately.

Canon even posted the limits which DPR tested and said were 100% correct. Anybody that felt those design limitations made the camera unusable for them could have returned the camera or sold it for a $1,000 profit. Not one single person in the world is stuck with an R5. If it isn’t what you need don’t buy it, if it isn’t what you need but you already have it sell it for a profit. But please stop calling design limitations ‘issues’ and stop buying it if those design limitations don’t work for you. 

Even the design limitations allow for effectively unlimited 4kHQ via an external monitor that allows vastly greater capacity than the biggest current cards for less money with more functionality anyway, why even bother with these stupid ‘work arounds’? Now the vide crowd refuse to use external monitors? It’s pathetic.


----------



## TheSalvatore (Sep 7, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Because people that do buy and persist the conflation of ‘issue’ and ‘design’ will impact everybody, me included. Personally I don’t want to be impacted by others stupidity, everybody that got an R5 knew the design limitations, even the people in the first batch because word was out immediately.
> 
> Canon even posted the limits which DPR tested and said were 100% correct. Anybody that felt those design limitations made the camera unusable for them could have returned the camera or sold it for a $1,000 profit. Not one single person in the world is stuck with an R5. If it isn’t what you need don’t buy it, if it isn’t what you need but you already have it sell it for a profit. But please stop calling design limitations ‘issues’ and stop buying it if those design limitations don’t work for you.
> 
> Even the design limitations allow for effectively unlimited 4kHQ via an external monitor that allows vastly greater capacity than the biggest current cards for less money with more functionality anyway, why even bother with these stupid ‘work arounds’? Now the vide crowd refuse to use external monitors? It’s pathetic.



I'm one of the first batch user. " If it isn’t what you need don’t buy it, if it isn’t what you need". Precisely that was my point dude. Also I'm a full time wedding photographer but I do occasionally film for my travel videos. I believe there are people like me and having the R5. So if you don't like, don't get it. Why are you so easily impacted by others? You do you. 

To me I don't think sharing is wrong. Sharing is caring, At least people out there know about this. Alright let's just stop debating. You don't like it, like i said, don't buy and simply just ignore all the overheating article. Peace out.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> NEW TRICK FOUND ON YOUTUBE FROM FILM POET TO BYPASS OVERHEATING INSTANTLY!!!
> 
> 
> 
> LOOKS PROMISING


Oh look more stupid ways to potentially damage a perfectly working Camera. 

Any links to videos about cleaning loaded firearms or jumping off bridges because your friends did it?


----------



## TheSalvatore (Sep 7, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Oh look more stupid ways to potentially damage a perfectly working Camera.
> 
> Any links to videos about cleaning loaded firearms or jumping off bridges because your friends did it?



Then you don't risk and don't do it? Lol It's for people that wanna risk. 
*Fyi not my friend.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> Then you don't risk and don't do it? Lol It's for people that wanna risk.
> *Fyi not my friend.


Read the room, buddy...


----------



## TheSalvatore (Sep 7, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Read the room, buddy...



If you don't like it then don't do haha. It's for people that don't mind trying. Oh well. Why so serious.


----------



## SteveC (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> I'm one of the first batch user. " If it isn’t what you need don’t buy it, if it isn’t what you need". Precisely that was my point dude. Also I'm a full time wedding photographer but I do occasionally film for my travel videos. I believe there are people like me and having the R5. So if you don't like, don't get it. Why are you so easily impacted by others? You do you.
> 
> To me I don't think sharing is wrong. Sharing is caring, At least people out there know about this. Alright let's just stop debating. You don't like it, like i said, don't buy and simply just ignore all the overheating article. Peace out.



What he is concerned about is that the after market will never trust a used R5, for fear that some chimpanzee in human form defeated the safeties and damaged the camera sometime in the past.

You can't seem to understand that because you are unable to even entertain the thought that the limits might be there to protect the hardware. You'd rather believe that Canon just put them there to aggravate you. Try entertaining the thought that the limits might be there for a valid _engineering_ reason! If they are safeties against hardware damage AND you go around them, you've damaged the hardware. The aftermarket will figure this out and R5 used prices will drop accordingly because the buyer of a used camera will never know if the seller is one of those assholes (yes, I just went there) who fucked up his camera.


----------



## Bdbtoys (Sep 7, 2020)

Not taking sides here... because I see both.

At an academic level...
It is interesting that the time-out can be reset by forwarding a day (won't get into how silly it is to have dates wrong on your videos). This is basically a different take on battery pull trick... Except instead of not writing the timeout, it tricks to think the timeout is over. It's actually closer to getting around video game timeouts.

The user level...
By all rights do it to your camera if you want (it's your camera). Don't do it to a camera you have no intention of keeping. Be honest when selling your camera. If when you sell your camera you say 'yeah, I bypassed the overheat control on a regular basis' more power to you. But let's be honest here... almost no one would do that... so you get the next situation.

The resale market...
There is a general concern what the people do with these cameras that they ran hard and get rid of, and the negative experience the unknowing end user will have. Which might trickle down to the general statement of 'all used r5's are garbage', which will then hurt peoples ability to upgrade, which then has an effect on new model sales.

I almost cringe for every fly by night YT'r that does the old 'reason I'm getting rid of the R5'... I mean seriously... we all know why. Most got the camera for a quick click generator and have no intention of keeping it when the credit card bill comes due... so no skin off their back to abuse it as they see fit. The problem is how many of these camera's get repackaged and resold to the general public again (that they think is new or a lightly used return). This is not limited to the R5's... I think it happens a lot w/ any new first-batch tech (think of those that overclock video cards, and return them).

IMO...
Canon screwed up here... they should have done a power-on sensor thermal check to check the actual temp of components, shell, etc. and adjust cool down times based on that. Yes that would have added more temp sensors to the build... but it would have been better than the 'hmm it should be cooled off enough after 3 hours, I mean 1hr, or w/e we guess in the new firmware'. But the point is Canon is trying to prevent you from damaging your gear (heck if nothing else but for reliability (for reputation) and ultimately service reasons(for warranty repairs)).


----------



## SteveC (Sep 7, 2020)

Bdbtoys said:


> I almost cringe for every fly by night YT'r that does the old 'reason I'm getting rid of the R5'... I mean seriously... we all know why. Most got the camera for a quick click generator and have no intention of keeping it when the credit card bill comes due... so no skin off their back to abuse it as they see fit. The problem is how many of these camera's get repackaged and resold to the general public again (that they think is new or a lightly used return). This is not limited to the R5's... I think it happens a lot w/ any new first-batch tech (think of those that overclock video cards, and return them).



There were at least three users here who, a couple of weeks ago, threw an "I'm boxing it up and sending it back" tantrum (one who is simply reselling because, apparently where he lives he can't return it). Given they were all mad about the video limits...well, I wouldn't want to buy a used camera from any of them. I DON'T know what they did with it. They all assumed it was just Canon Cripplehammer in action.



Bdbtoys said:


> IMO...
> Canon screwed up here... they should have done a power-on sensor thermal check to check the actual temp of components, shell, etc. and adjust cool down times based on that. Yes that would have added more temp sensors to the build... but it would have been better than the 'hmm it should be cooled off enough after 3 hours, I mean 1hr, or w/e we guess in the new firmware'. But the point is Canon is trying to prevent you from damaging your gear (heck if nothing else but for reliability (for reputation) and ultimately service reasons(for warranty repairs)).



If Canon had done this, it wouldn't have mattered. Some people would still have assumed it was the "cripple hammer" at work and hacked it.


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 7, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> If you don't like it then don't do haha. It's for people that don't mind trying. Oh well. Why so serious.


Hi Baron....


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Sep 7, 2020)

I think we will see this addressed in the next firmware and that will help as long as there are other incentives to updating the firmware. 

If there is no reason to update then there is a high chance some users will stick with the firmware that allows the hacks and only update if/when they go to sell their crispy Camera.


----------



## SteveC (Sep 7, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I think we will see this addressed in the next firmware and that will help as long as there are other incentives to updating the firmware.
> 
> If there is no reason to update then there is a high chance some users will stick with the firmware that allows the hacks and only update if/when they go to sell their crispy Camera.



Of course new cameras will be updated already...so a camera with a _high_ serial number will be more trustworthy--it will never have had the version of firmware that allowed the X, Y, or Z hack, on it.

My serial number is in the upper 900s, but fortunately I doubt I'll ever feel the need to "upgrade" with this one.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Sep 7, 2020)

I can't wait to see all the new flood of Canon Youtube videos at the end of the year:

"Dead Pixels in R5"

"R5 No Longer Turns On - It's Garbage"

"R5 Overheating Indicator Stays On - Even after turning off for 24 Hrs!"

"How to remove Stuck Rice in R5"

"Replacing Melted Heat Sensor in R5"

"SD Card Melted and Stuck in R6!!"

"R5 - WAS I WRONG to By Pass Timer? Camera Won't Turn On!!" 














"My Canon is Dead???"


----------



## Bdbtoys (Sep 7, 2020)

SteveC said:


> If Canon had done this, it wouldn't have mattered. Some people would still have assumed it was the "cripple hammer" at work and hacked it.



I disagree to an extent. Yes there would be a few that would circumvent... but it would be much harder to do so by the general masses if it was reading real temps. It would take a "real" hardware/software hack... vs a battery pull or date change.

Personally, I have much more faith in overheat protection based on real time data vs projections... as the latter can be disputed.


----------



## SteveC (Sep 7, 2020)

Bdbtoys said:


> I disagree to an extent. Yes there would be a few that would circumvent... but it would be much harder to do so by the general masses if it was reading real temps. It would take a "real" hardware/software hack... vs a battery pull or date change.
> 
> Personally, I have much more faith in overheat protection based on real time data vs projections... as the latter can be disputed.



True enough. I'm sure they had that conversation at Canon beforehand, and the decision was made to reduce costs in exchange for (what was perceived to be) a slight loss of usability. It wouldn't be the first time the beancounters f*cked something up.


----------

