# 7D sensor poll



## D_Rochat (Jan 2, 2012)

Not trying to stir the pot even further here, but I'm genuinely curious as to what the people of CR would prefer in the new 7D mkII as far as the sensor is concerned. 

If you HAD to buy this new 7D, which one would it be? For the sake of argument, lets just pretend that all features and specs are identical with the exception of the sensor. Since no one knows what the new APS-C will be, we'll say it's 18mp and the H will remain at 16mp.


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## dr croubie (Jan 2, 2012)

Between those 2 options with specs and price otherwise identical to my current 7D, the APS-H, probably.

(But i'd still rather an APS-C with better AF and sealing  )


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 2, 2012)

I think it's a non-starter, the 7D line will remain APS-C. They could release a new APS-H camera someday, but it won't be a 7-series. APS-H means incompatible with EF-S lenses, which is why we won't see a 7D with APS-H. 

Personally, I'm hoping for an APS-C body with 1-series build and AF. If I'm limited by focal length (which, IMO, is the main reason to use any crop sensor, 1.3x or 1.6x), the 1.6x will put more pixels on target. So, an APS-C sensor with IQ improvements would be better than APS-H.


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## smirkypants (Jan 2, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'm hoping for an APS-C body with 1-series build and AF.


A C-sensor and a 1-series build: 3D would be an excellent name for such a beast.

I'm with you, neuro. The H-sensor is dead. It's an anachronism. It existed because there wasn't enough horsepower under the hood to drive a full-frame sports camera.

Many are assuming that it isn't possible to put H quality in a C sensor, but several years have passed and I'm sure it's easily done now. The 7D sensor is 3 years old. Three years. That's a really long time.


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## KeithR (Jan 2, 2012)

Neither.

_If_ it was an H, I'd want a helluva lot more than 16 mp; and if it was a C, I'd want more than I have now.


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## AprilForever (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed. I would live ASP-C, AND more than 18MP.


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## jimmy156 (Jan 2, 2012)

I voted for APS-C

I am a 50d user, and my natural upgrade would be to the 7d or whatever replaces it, although i'm not looking to upgrade for a little while yet.

As a wildlife/bird photographer i wouldn't want to loose the 1.6x crop factor, my sigma 120-400 doesn't feel long enough for birds a lot of the time anyway, and i cant afford to move up to a 500mm to compensate for a loss in crop factor. Of course if they made it APS H with the ability to crop either in camera or in post to an equivelent of APS C at 15-18mp then i would be happy bunny.

The other reason i would like it to stay APS C is because i would hate to loose the use of my favourite lens, Canon 60mm 2.8 MACRO. I love that lens!


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## justsomedude (Jan 2, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I think it's a non-starter, the 7D line will remain APS-C. They could release a new APS-H camera someday, but it won't be a 7-series. APS-H means incompatible with EF-S lenses, which is why we won't see a 7D with APS-H.
> 
> Personally, I'm hoping for an APS-C body with 1-series build and AF. If I'm limited by focal length (which, IMO, is the main reason to use any crop sensor, 1.3x or 1.6x), the 1.6x will put more pixels on target. So, an APS-C sensor with IQ improvements would be better than APS-H.



+1

The 7D will always remain a crossover body from the pro-sumer to the pro line. Also, as neuroanatomist so eloquently stated, the crop factor of a 7D body gives your lenses extra reach. This makes the 7D body dual purpose, and a great supplement to a full frame body like the 5D; it expands your creative possibilities.

That said, I'd like the 7D to stay APS-C crop.


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## briansquibb (Jan 2, 2012)

justsomedude said:


> +1
> 
> The 7D will always remain a crossover body from the pro-sumer to the pro line. Also, as neuroanatomist so eloquently stated, the crop factor of a 7D body gives your lenses extra reach. This makes the 7D body dual purpose, and a great supplement to a full frame body like the 5D; it expands your creative possibilities.
> 
> That said, I'd like the 7D to stay APS-C crop.



So what is the upgrade path from the 7D then? Previously the 1.3 crop 1D4 which meant you didn't lose all the 'crop reach' which all the 7D fans seem to love. Is it the ff 1DX which means you lose all the 'crop reach'. Wont you be upset with nowhere to go from the noisy prosumer body?


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## D_Rochat (Jan 2, 2012)

KeithR said:


> Neither.
> 
> _If_ it was an H, I'd want a helluva lot more than 16 mp; and if it was a C, I'd want more than I have now.





D_Rochat said:


> Since no one knows what the new APS-C will be, we'll say it's 18mp and the H will remain at 16mp.



If they go APS-C, and they likely will, we have no idea how many mp it would be. The poll is about sensors and not mp anyways. -2 Karma for this post! Some people take this stuff too seriously. : Oh well. Either way it goes, I'm sure it will be a great camera and I look forward to getting one, but I won't lose sleep if it goes the other why I'd like it to.


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## AJ (Jan 2, 2012)

APS-C, because it'll accept EF-S lenses like 17-55/2.8


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## briansquibb (Jan 2, 2012)

AJ said:


> APS-C, because it'll accept EF-S lenses like 17-55/2.8



.... and how many good EF-S lens are there? 2 maybe 3? 

If you want to upgrade your 7D you will want the best glass which are are L glass - all the large whites, 70-200 f/2.8, 85 f/1.2, 50 f/1.2, all the good primes etc etc


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## distant.star (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm 100% with this. I don't think there's anything else worth saying on the subject.




neuroanatomist said:


> I think it's a non-starter, the 7D line will remain APS-C. They could release a new APS-H camera someday, but it won't be a 7-series. APS-H means incompatible with EF-S lenses, which is why we won't see a 7D with APS-H.
> 
> Personally, I'm hoping for an APS-C body with 1-series build and AF. If I'm limited by focal length (which, IMO, is the main reason to use any crop sensor, 1.3x or 1.6x), the 1.6x will put more pixels on target. So, an APS-C sensor with IQ improvements would be better than APS-H.


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## D_Rochat (Jan 2, 2012)

lol at the karma! ;D 

I agree with briansquibb on the EF-S lenses. There's no doubt that the EF-S 10-22 and 17-55 are great lenses and even have the L series pricing to them, but if you ever do decide to move up to a FF, you've put yourself in a situation where you have to replace them. It's just not worth the investment to me to buy something that may limit you in the future. But, that's just my opinion and maybe you never plan on moving up.


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## D_Rochat (Jan 2, 2012)

And to dr croubie, I think I have you beat! And I still have the rest of the day.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 2, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> ...if you ever do decide to move up to a FF, you've put yourself in a situation where you have to replace them. It's just not worth the investment to me to buy something that may limit you in the future.



I 'moved up' but I didn't give up my 7D, either. I did sell my 10-22mm, for a 'whopping' loss of $50, and bought the 16-35L to use on my 5DII. I kept the 17-55mm.


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## unfocused (Jan 2, 2012)

> The H-sensor is dead. It's an anachronism. It existed because there wasn't enough horsepower under the hood to drive a full-frame sports camera.



Well said, Smirkypants. Although I would add, it also existed because at the time the quality gap between APS-C and Full Frame was greater than it is today. That gap is narrowing with each new generation and will continue to narrow in the future. 

It's logical and reasonable to expect that each new generation of APS-C sensor will be equivalent to the previous generation of full frame sensor. 

What I want and expect from next generation of 7D is very simple:

18-21 mp sensor with image quality equivalent to the *current* generation 5D MkII sensor (noise, ISO, dynamic range, etc)
Improved auto-focus (something a little better than current 7D but don't expect it to be 1D-X quality)

Fixing the overheating issue with the on-camera flash when used as a IR trigger.
A few other little tweaks to make it interesting.

I just don't get why people can't accept what Canon has said and done and just move on. 

If Canon had any intention of keeping the APS-H sensor alive, they would not have announced the 1D-X as a replacement for both the full frame and APS-H sensor cameras. The 1D MkIV is barely two years old. There was no need for Canon to announce they were ending the series if they had any thoughts of keeping it alive. 

Actually, I'm pretty excited about the prospect that Canon may be planning the next 7D announcement for Photokina. That says to me they want to make a big splash with the new 7D, so I suspect they may have some good stuff up their sleeve.

A gripped, bomb-proof 7D-X perhaps for professional sports and wildlife shooters? (Keeping the non-gripped version as a 7DII)

On the other hand, I fully expect the 5D MkIII, if announced sometime this Spring, will be an incremental upgrade. The MkII is a great camera and I expect Canon will figure they don't need to mess too much with success. They can up the megapixels a little and upgrade the sensor's noise and dynamic range slightly, fix some of the issues that videographers have with the camera and call it good. 



> ...if you ever do decide to move up to a FF



I'm kind of tired and bored with the "move up" stuff. APS-C and Full Frame are two different formats. Each has advantages and disadvantages. It's like suggesting that Cartier-Bresson needed to "move up" to an 8x10 view camera.


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## ssrdd (Jan 2, 2012)

both are half baked for video. i say no for 7D


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## smirkypants (Jan 2, 2012)

unfocused said:


> I'm kind of tired and bored with the "move up" stuff. APS-C and Full Frame are two different formats. Each has advantages and disadvantages.


Indeed. For 80% the kind of shooting I do, a 5D2 is a downgrade from even a 60D. Except for weather sealing, it's easy to argue that a 24-70L 2.8 is a downgrade from a 17-55 2.8.


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## AprilForever (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed, they have said the ASP-H is dead... Long Live the APS-C!!!


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## AprilForever (Jan 2, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> both are half baked for video. i say no for 7D



I've shot an Indie film with a 7D... looked great, but, the script was horrible, so, no, I won't tell you what it is, but it did look great...


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## briansquibb (Jan 2, 2012)

AprilForever said:


> Indeed, they have said the ASP-H is dead... Long Live the APS-C!!!



Have you a reference for this?


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## distant.star (Jan 3, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> AprilForever said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, they have said the ASP-H is dead... Long Live the APS-C!!!
> ...



"They," man, THEY.

True Heavensent Ethereal Yammerers

Never, ever wrong.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 3, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> AprilForever said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, they have said the ASP-H is dead... Long Live the APS-C!!!
> ...



FWIW, I have a reference...for the exact opposite. 

From Doug Brown's interview with Chuck Westfall about the 1D X announcement:

_DB: Moving forward, has Canon dropped the APS-H sensor from its future plans?
CW: The 1.3 crop sensor is not being killed off. Canon is keeping all options open for future products._


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## briansquibb (Jan 3, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > AprilForever said:
> ...



Thank you - that lines up nicely with other references I have seen for the future of APS-H. Canon have put a lot of money into APS-H - they wont drop it in preference to APS-C which has limited headroom for further development and will cost a fortune to develop it to the current level of APS-H


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## justsomedude (Jan 3, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > +1
> ...



I think it would remain the same... the upgrade path from the 7D would be the 5D or 1D. I almost see the xxD line being eliminated. The T3i and 60D are very close in price, with no huge difference in feature set. The two lines are almost identical. Also, Canon took a lot of crap for the changes they made from the 50D to the 60D bodies, such as going from magnesium-alloy to a plastic body and adding that tilt-swivel LCD. Many saw the 60D as a downgrade from the 40D and 50D models, at least with respect to being "semi-pro" versus "enthusiast" type camera bodies. 

That said, if the xxD line is eliminated, the T3i, T4i, etc. may become Canon's new baseline standard for the "enthusiast" market. The plastic bodies, tilt-swivel LCDs, and marketing focus towards video will remain. Then, the 7D, 6D (if it ever comes to fruition), etc. series will bridge the "semi-pro" gap to the 5D and 1D "pro" series. The words in quotes are my own definitions for the sake of breaking down Canon's markets. 

And, for what it's worth, this is all based on assumption from my own personal "vibe" of the Canon's development progress, and tidbits I get from place like CanonRumors and other sources on the internet.


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## EYEONE (Jan 3, 2012)

unfocused said:


> The H-sensor is dead. It's an anachronism. It existed because there wasn't enough horsepower under the hood to drive a full-frame sports camera.



That's just not really true at all is it? People keep saying this like FF vs. APS-H has anything to do with "horsepower" as in computing power. Canon had 35mm SLRs that shot 10 fps so it wasn't a mechanics were fine. So, they didn't have the computing power to throw 11.6mp around at 10fps when the 1Ds first came out. But that has nothing to do with the FF sensor. And the APS-H sensor of the 1D line wasn't the reason it could shoot 8.5 and 10fps.

APS-H has it's place and I would love to see it used again in a figure camera. It's a good balance of crop, IQ, and getting to use lenses closer to their intended focal length.


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## liberace (Jan 3, 2012)

EYEONE said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > The H-sensor is dead. It's an anachronism. It existed because there wasn't enough horsepower under the hood to drive a full-frame sports camera.
> ...



Are you certain this is 100% true? I have the faintest of memories that the actual physical size of the sensor played a part in data through-put - at least at one stage of digital camera history, if not now. Which would have the truth sitting somewhere in the middle. Of course my memory could be failing me, it's never been that good


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## scarbo (Jan 3, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm hoping for an APS-C body with 1-series build and AF.
> ...



Yes, I chose the APS-H sensor on the assumption the image quality would be significantly better than in the current model, but I didn't factor in improvements in technology. 

Looking at the Sony NEX-5N, which has outstanding image quality, we can see what is possible with an APS-C sensor today. If that sensor was even in the current 7D, I would be happy with the APS-C sensor over the APS-H and would buy one instantly.


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## smirkypants (Jan 3, 2012)

liberace said:


> Are you certain this is 100% true? I have the faintest of memories that the actual physical size of the sensor played a part in data through-put - at least at one stage of digital camera history, if not now. Which would have the truth sitting somewhere in the middle. Of course my memory could be failing me, it's never been that good


Yes, of course size matters. The bigger you make the sensor, the more sensitive you can make it, all other things being equal. Of course all other things are not equal. Technology improves things as well, so they are constantly able to put better and better onto smaller and smaller. Every time somebody claims a theoretical limit to Moore's Law, a new way of doing things is figured out and computer speed marches forward and I'm sure that Moore's Law more or less applies to digital camera sensors. The next generation of C will get us to where the H was.

As for the H sensor not being dead, corporate spokespersons are programmed to equivocate. "Keeping all options open" is hardly "we are behind the development and implementation of the H sensor 100%, and you'll be seeing new products soon." It gives hope to the people who see it as the best of both worlds, even though it's also the worst of both worlds. I originally bought my 7D+10-22 because I wanted a backup camera and I couldn't do ultra wide on my 1D4. The 14mm was way pricey and only got me to 18mm, and the 5D2+16-35, but... I kinda hate the AF on the 5D2. The more I used the 7D, the more I fell in love with it and now I only bust out the 1D4 when I'm shooting sports outside in poor light.

If there's a new H sensor camera announced in the next 12 months, I'll file down my old digital rebel and eat the dust.


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## danski0224 (Jan 3, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> If there's a new H sensor camera announced in the next 12 months, I'll file down my old digital rebel and eat the dust.



Duly noted.

I assume there will be a video of this event, if it happens?


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## AprilForever (Jan 3, 2012)

Indeed. As he mentioned above.

I, however, don't really think we'll see asp-h soon, perhaps ne'er again...


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 3, 2012)

EYEONE said:


> someone other than unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > The H-sensor is dead. It's an anachronism. It existed because there wasn't enough horsepower under the hood to drive a full-frame sports camera.
> ...



It's not really 'horsepower' in the sense of data throughput. From that standpoint, 18 MP is 18 MP, whether it's from APS-C or -H or FF, it's the same amount of data. However, where size matters is in clearing the data from the CMOS sensor itself, which must be 'flushed' after each capture (I recall a firmware update for a camera that fixed 'ghost images' which resulted from incompletely flushing the sensor). That may have been a limiting factor in achieving high frame rates with FF that technology has solved.

APS-H was a compromise sensor - for some, the best compromise of some crop factor for extra reach with better IQ, for others, a poor compromise between not enough reach and not good enough IQ, with the added problem of a lack of ultrawide capability with available lenses.

Fundamentally, though, I think the real reason we had an APS-H sensor was rooted in the sensor production process. Why that size, and not some other size? Because at the time, the APS-H size was the largest dimension that could be imaged onto a silicon wafer in a single pass - FF sensors required 3 passes, which substantially increased production costs (not so much the cost of the passes, but rather the increased QC failure rate resulting from multiple passes). Today, I believe that FF sensors no longer require 3 passes (perhaps 2 or even 1), and that factor is contributing to the deprioritizing of the APS-H format.


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## unfocused (Jan 3, 2012)

I really wish people would quit mindlessly hitting the "quote" button without even checking to see if they are quoting the right person.

Attributing a statement from Smirkypants to me is unfair to both of us. If you bothered to read our full posts, you'd see that I was quoting his/her statement and offering agreement and additional observation. 

Okay, I'm going to be a bit snarky here, but honestly: if you people know so much about sensor technology, dynamic range, ISO noise, etc. etc., how come you can't figure out how to use a simple forum? It's really not that hard. Hit the preview button to see what your post looks like, proofread it and, if necessary, add a little bit of html code to fix things up.


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## EYEONE (Jan 3, 2012)

unfocused said:


> I really wish people would quit mindlessly hitting the "quote" button without even checking to see if they are quoting the right person.
> 
> Attributing a statement from Smirkypants to me is unfair to both of us. If you bothered to read our full posts, you'd see that I was quoting his/her statement and offering agreement and additional observation.
> 
> Okay, I'm going to be a bit snarky here, but honestly: if you people know so much about sensor technology, dynamic range, ISO noise, etc. etc., how come you can't figure out how to use a simple forum? It's really not that hard. Hit the preview button to see what your post looks like, proofread it and, if necessary, add a little bit of html code to fix things up.



Calm down pal, it was an accident. Thee is no need to get bend out of shape and insult people's (my) intelligence.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 3, 2012)

"Elementary, my dear Watson."

Now, who said that? Sherlock Holmes, as penned by Aurther Conan Doyle, right? Wrong. Those words do not appear as a quotation by any Conan Doyle character. The phrase was first written by P. G. Wodehouse in _Psmith Journalist_, published in the early 1900s. 



unfocused said:


> I really wish people would quit mindlessly hitting the "quote" button without even checking to see if they are quoting the right person.



Perhaps it was associated with you because _you_ neglected to attribute the quote to anyone? Just sayin'...


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## briansquibb (Jan 3, 2012)

You can quote me instead "APS-H is not dead, it is just resting in a compromising position" 

;D ;D ;D


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## AprilForever (Jan 3, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > someone other than unfocused said:
> ...



Interesting technical note! I really like the ASP-C because of the reach it gives me... if they would put asp-c in a 1D body...


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 3, 2012)

Or, how about: "Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that APS-H is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive." (Miracle Max in _The Princess Bride_, sort of...)



AprilForever said:


> I really like the ASP-C because of the reach it gives me... if they would put asp-c in a 1D body...



Exactly what I'm hoping for...but they can wait a year or so, until my gear fund recovers from the 1D X, and I'm looking to replace the 7D after experiencing 1-series AF for a while...


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## awinphoto (Jan 3, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Or, how about: "Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that APS-H is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive." (Miracle Max in _The Princess Bride_, sort of...)



Cant say I've ever seen princess bride [/crickets chirping]... anyways I understand the aps-c vs aps-h in terms of slightly bigger sensor, better IQ, but one of the tradeoff's for APS-C is the ability to use APS-C lenses and line up and reach... Especially since Canon has obviously shown a desire to develop this clientele and sensor size with lenses, I cant see canon abandoning that unless they make it so the lenses work on that style camera...


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## AprilForever (Jan 3, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Or, how about: "Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that APS-H is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive." (Miracle Max in _The Princess Bride_, sort of...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Me too!



awinphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Or, how about: "Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that APS-H is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive." (Miracle Max in _The Princess Bride_, sort of...)
> ...



Go watch it!!! What would be hilarious is if Nikon came out with a 1.3/1.25 crop sensor (Although DX is 1.5)... 

"Hey Inigo, are there rocks ahead?"


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## K-amps (Jan 3, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> I'm with you, neuro. The H-sensor is dead. It's an anachronism. It existed because there wasn't enough horsepower under the hood to drive a full-frame sports camera.



I am not sure the only reason for it's existence was horsepower or lack thereof but because the Yields were much better. 

To illustrate (we are not even going into the *30 vs 112 sensor per 8"* wafer or the *contaminents* per die argument): but also APS-C sensors need 1 pass-through/exposure during the photolithography, and FF sensors need *3 passes*. the APS-H was the largest size that needed "only" one pass. This is why that size was chosen. We often forget, it is sometimes the production costs that drive Business decisions and not only what suits a small niche of hard-core cool guys like us. 

Keeping that in Mind, one has to entertain the possibility of it's second birth... as they say, the second birth is easier than the first


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## briansquibb (Jan 3, 2012)

I am looking forward to a Canon medium format sensor with serious mps, serious iso capability, serious dr improvement, serious AF system (90 point?).


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## K-amps (Jan 3, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I am looking forward to a Canon medium format sensor with serious mps, serious iso capability, serious dr improvement, serious AF system (90 point?).



Haha, dont forget to buy a whole new set of *serious* lenses to go with that...


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## briansquibb (Jan 3, 2012)

K-amps said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I am looking forward to a Canon medium format sensor with serious mps, serious iso capability, serious dr improvement, serious AF system (90 point?).
> ...



Perhaps they will do like Nikon with DX and FX and allow EF lens on the medium format to give ff sized images in compatibility mode

With 80+ mps you wont need bigger native lens than a 300mm


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## wickidwombat (Jan 3, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> it's easy to argue that a 24-70L 2.8 is a downgrade from a 17-55 2.8.


I'd agree with that I'm very keen to see what the new 7D comes out with purely from an interest in using this lens, that and the extra reach it will give my 300f4L in a relatively light and easy to use long range combo. then my 70-200 would basically live on my 5D2.
but I also really love the 16-35 on an APS-H sensor too so a lighter smaller body than a 1D that can hold that lens would be very nice.
As someone suggested a small camera with APS-H sensor that you can change to APS-C at say 16MP and excellent weather sealing with good AF would be a fun proposition indead and of course it would need to be able to use EF-S lenses too. ( Ah wishfull thinking)


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## AprilForever (Jan 3, 2012)

Here's a serious lens...

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=250


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## dr croubie (Jan 4, 2012)

AprilForever said:


> Here's a serious lens...
> 
> http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=250



For a 20x24" large format film, in 35mm Full Frame terms, it frames like a 65mm f/1.3 (or 40mm f/0.8 on a 7D), and that's only the f/22 version, me wanty the f/14...


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## JonJT (Jan 4, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> AprilForever said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a serious lens...
> ...



Negative DOF.


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## AprilForever (Jan 4, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> AprilForever said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a serious lens...
> ...



Boy would I love a 40 f 0.8!!!


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## smirkypants (Jan 4, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I'd agree with that I'm very keen to see what the new 7D comes out with purely from an interest in using this lens, that and the extra reach it will give my 300f4L in a relatively light and easy to use long range combo. then my 70-200 would basically live on my 5D2.


I will be getting a 5D3 or 1Dx when they come out, mostly to use with my 70-200 and events and I'm at about 250K shutter actuations on my 1D4. The short end on any crop (70mm=112mm) just feels too cramped.

But.... The MTF charts are strikingly nicer on the 17-55 than on the 24-70, plus you have 4 stops of image stabilization. Also, the 7D will give you greater reach than adding a 1.4 teleconverter to your 300/f4, without the image degradation and the loss of light. Also, the long end of you 70-200 112-320) will be longer than your 300/f4. It's a no-brainer.

It's not either/or... it's BOTH.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 4, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> It's not either/or... it's BOTH.



yep thats the plan  then my trusty 1Dmk3 will get a permanent IR conversion which should be fun


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## JonJT (Jan 4, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > I'd agree with that I'm very keen to see what the new 7D comes out with purely from an interest in using this lens, that and the extra reach it will give my 300f4L in a relatively light and easy to use long range combo. then my 70-200 would basically live on my 5D2.
> ...



It's actually 3 stops on the 17-55


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