# What are you the most *excited* about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?



## ahsanford (Aug 17, 2016)

What's got you fired up in a good way?

COMPANION POLL -- what did you hate about the leaked specs?


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## Act444 (Aug 17, 2016)

Hard to truly know until I have a chance to learn about and test the camera...BUT from the choices you posted, and out of first impressions it's a toss-up between Wifi and incremental/evolving updates (e.g., exposure comp in manual mode). The 2 biggest drawbacks of the 5D3 for me are its tendency to underexpose and the slowness of the SD card drive, two issues addressed in the 7D2 (and I assume will be addressed in 5D4). A close 2nd is lack of wifi in the 5D3 - but those reasons alone are not convincing enough to upgrade. 

We'll see, I'll reserve full judgment until it's out.


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

Come on people, the 'upset' thread has nearly twice the responses! Surely there's something about the 5D4 you are excited about.

- A


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

Because to many folks on here, it's more cathartic apparently to bitch about everything that (THEY THINK) doesn't meet their own personal needs based on a list of yet unconfirmed/unofficial/massively incomplete specs


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

Personally I'm more excited that (so far based on rumor) the specs of the 5D4 are making my long wrestled with decision on what model to purchase much clearer.


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Because to many folks on here, it's more cathartic apparently to bitch about everything that (THEY THINK) doesn't meet their own personal needs based on a list of yet unconfirmed/unofficial/massively incomplete specs



But there's no focus peaking or zebras! We KNOW this because it's not on the spec list. 

And I heard it's 1/125s flash sync speed. Because I made that up and posted it.

#ignoranceisrealpeople

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Personally I'm more excited that (so far based on rumor) the specs of the 5D4 are making my long wrestled with decision on what model to purchase much clearer.



...so either the FPS is too low for you and you should get a 2nd hand 1DX, or you really want a tilty-flippy and should wait for the 6D2? Or was it a video framerate option that only the 1DX2 has?

- A


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## Refurb7 (Aug 18, 2016)

As I mentioned in the "upset" thread, the 5D3 has been a great camera, so I'll be thrilled if the 5D4 is as good or better. The only improvement that could potentially make a real difference for me is even better high ISO performance. That would be sweet. Everything else I pretty much don't care about.


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ...so either the FPS is too low for you and you should get a 2nd hand 1DX, or you really want a tilty-flippy and should wait for the 6D2? Or was it a video framerate option that only the 1DX2 has?
> - A



Several factors. 

Frame Rate: Not really an issue for me either way. I didn't expect some wild number like 10+. I expected 7-8. That said, it's perfectly fine for general use, but I need 1DX speeds for dance competitions and recitals. I rent one each year to do this. So the 1DX2 (which I rented this year) was always more attractive an option to fill my frame rate gap at the top end above my 5D3.

Resolution: The drastically higher MP count vs the 5D3 is actually a drawback for me. the 22MP of the 5D3 for what I use it for is about perfect. General use. It's plenty enough resolve for the majority of almost any need without being overly obnoxious for such general use (file sizes). Apart from my personal use, the 5D3 files are more than ample to produce excellent medium-large prints or digital use images. The files are able to be quickly culled and edited. If I need more resolve for a custom portrait shoot, I'll grab my 5DSR. I've already got the high MP gap filled better with that. When I shoot 400+ dance students each year with stobes in front a white screen and sell print packages with 8x10s, 22MP is MORE than ample. 30MP give's me nothing additional except larger files sizes I don't need for that.

LCD Screen: Tilty Flippy is nice, but I couldn't care less either way. Would it make things easier in live view on occasion? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? No way.

Video: This is a biggy since I'm venturing more into that side albeit, not heavily. But the 120fps in HD is very important to me if I do video, because once again, dancers.

So neededing to fill a gap at higher frame rates for dance competitions and recitals (instead of renting one out) plus the lack of need for a 30MP sensor, in tandem with a preference for low-mid 20s, plus the video issue, I don't have much compelling reason to warrant a 5D4. I would get more benefit out of keeping my 5D3 and 5DSR and buying a 1DX2 which would give me the new sensor tech I want without the higher MP I don't need for my purposes and with all the extras I'm lacking now that i DO need.


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

I'm in Refurb7's camp. The improvement in DR and ISO would be great resaons to upgrade if needed, but I can get that (and probably better) in the DX2 along with everything else I need that no 5 body is designed to do


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> I'm in Refurb7's camp. The improvement in DR and ISO would be great resaons to upgrade if needed, but I can get that (and probably better) in the DX2 along with everything else I need that no 5 body is designed to do



Normally, I'd say anything the 5D# can do, the 1DX# can do better (the big exception being silent shutter). But if this dual-pixel thing gives a legimitate IQ boost and (for hardware reasons) that functionality cannot be made available on the 1DX2 with firmware, the 5D4 might eclipse the 1DX2 in some use-cases. We shall see!

- A


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

Sure but Im not sure what hardware it would take additionally given that these two cameras both have the sensor fabrication process. Both on chip ADC with the column parallel readout on DPAF chips. I cant imagine Canon re-re-built the sensor design exclusively for this. Gut feeling says the firmware wasnt ready in time for the DX2 and they held it for the more widely used 5body as a major feature announcement. Could be wrong, and Im no scientist on this stuff, but I can think of what else would be needed besides whats already in there


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## suburbia (Aug 18, 2016)

I'm particularly tempted by the resolution increase as I have been getting into landscapes recently but that new fangled dual pixel thing is surely the exciting thing as it is an unknown quantity but that dual ISO theory would definitely make me buy one if it turns out true.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Sure but Im not sure what hardware it would take additionally given that these two cameras both have the sensor fabrication process. Both on chip ADC with the column parallel readout on DPAF chips. I cant imagine Canon re-re-built the sensor design exclusively for this. Gut feeling says the firmware wasnt ready in time for the DX2 and they held it for the more widely used 5body as a major feature announcement. Could be wrong, and Im no scientist on this stuff, but I can think of what else would be needed besides whats already in there



i wouldn't be so sure that canon didn't redesign the sensor.. 

canon's been redesigning their APS-C sensors every release.
60D,70D,7DII, Rebel, 80D all have different sensors.

whatever the hold up was.. ended a while ago.


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## mclaren777 (Aug 18, 2016)

If it had been part of the leaked specs and part of this poll, I would have voted for -3 EV AF sensitivity.

Poor low-light focusing is my biggest complaint with the 5D3.


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

suburbia said:


> I'm particularly tempted by the resolution increase as I have been getting into landscapes recently but that new fangled dual pixel thing is surely the exciting thing as it is an unknown quantity but that dual ISO theory would definitely make me buy one if it turns out true.



Not sure where the paydirt will be on this new dual-pixel technology. 

If it's like ML's dual-ISO, one would expect it wouldn't help much for tripod-based ISO 100 landscape work. If that's what you need, I'd just go for detail, get a 5DS R and be done with it. But DR goes to hell as you climb up the ISO dial, and if it _does_ work like dual-ISO, there could be a significant reward there.

But this is all speculation of course. We'll know more when they announce or if marketing collaterals leak early (some overzealous country manager gets his dates/time zones wrong and posts too soon).

- A


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> i wouldn't be so sure that canon didn't redesign the sensor..
> 
> canon's been redesigning their APS-C sensors every release.
> 60D,70D,7DII, Rebel, 80D all have different sensors.
> ...



Not exactly. They all have different sensors in terms of MP count. But the 7D2 introduced DPAF. However it still used the older off-sensor ADC fabrication process. The 80D (following the 1DX2) used the new on-sensor ADC fabrication process. In that regard the 80D has more in common with the 1DX2 than does the 7D2. The 5D4 will also have DPAF with the on-sensor ADC fabrication process. While all three of those cameras (1DX2, 80D, 5D4 - in order of release) have different sensors in terms of size and MP count, they ALL share the same fabrication process of putting the ADC ON the sensor. I highly doubt Canon would have re-engineered that process again to something new with the the 5D4's base chip design. That's an extremely expensive process to re-tool and it's why we had to wait so long for Canon to make the change they just did last year to give us those 3 cameras we have now.


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> But the 7D2 70D introduced DPAF.



Fixed that for you. 

- A


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > But the 7D2 70D introduced DPAF.
> ...



Doh! But yes. And like the 7D2, the 80D predecessor also used the same older fab process. Again I think this is probabaly going to be more a function of the new ADC (the more I think about it) because the multiple channels could (I suppose) be segregated via a firmware switch to read out each sub-pixel independently, whereas the older ADC designs (even with the DPAF) perhaps can not.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > i wouldn't be so sure that canon didn't redesign the sensor..
> ...



the 60D was older fab / process .. last one of it's kind.
the 70D was the first DPAF sensor.
the 7DII was a different sensor than the 70D even though both at 20Mp - the QE's were remarkably different.
the rebel 24mp is a different sensor, with entirely different pinout structure from the 60/70D sensors.
the 80D was ADC on chip.

so from July 2013 to Feb 2016, 2.5 years, canon released just on APS-C .. 4 different sensors.

all of them where different, so it's nothing to suggest that canon will not create another specific sensor for the 5D Mark IV.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> ahsanford said:
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> > PureClassA said:
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that's not entirely known for sure .. as an example the 70D and 7D Mark II QE jumped significantly, and dual pixel itself requires the splitting of the PD in half, which means that it probably required a tighter geometry.

keep in mind that canon didn't get it's ADC sensor patents approved until 2014-15 that really is independent of the fab process.


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> PureClassA said:
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> > ahsanford said:
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To make the optical wafer itself. perhaps, yes. But the fabrication of that wafer onto the completed sensor as a whole which now includes (since after the 7D2 and 70D) having the ADC manufactured in the same component as the wafer... perhaps that is what makes the change that allowed for greater latitude with the DPAF wafer. Just guessing. It used to be the sensor itself plus the amplification on that same body. Now it includes a third component on board as well


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



your comment was "I cant imagine Canon re-re-built the sensor design exclusively for this. "

Canon has been doing exclusive designs for the last 2.5 years on every APS-C camera.

it's not out of the ordinary to assume that canon could and would do something different with the 5D IV.

also another case in point.. from empirical evidence.. the sensors from the 5D Mark III and the 6D are totally different. the noise / banding,etc structures completely change from those two cameras .. 5 months apart.

*IF* getting the new fab up and running was canon's 3-4 year hold up (prior to the 70D) then all bets are off on new sensors for each camera that are "tweaked" and modified for each camera system.

that is the tactical advantage of running your own fab and not relying on "stock" sensors.

Canon's also big enough to absorb the few millions in lithography,etc to do it.

Also .. I just thought.. with dual processors, the ADC output lanes will be different than with a single lane 5D Mark IV.. potentially meaning that it has to be different anyways.


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## kaihp (Aug 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Come on people, the 'upset' thread has nearly twice the responses! Surely there's something about the 5D4 you are excited about.


Actually, at this point in time with no concrete info on IQ, I'm not excited about the 5D4.

To my mind, I don't need 30MP (heck, 22MP is usually more than enough for me) so I would have prefered a lower-MP/higher-FPS body than the 30MP/7fps we're supposed to get. Yes, I'm in the minority group and Canon doesn't make a product for me alone (if they did, I couldn't afford it anyway).

The final unknown is IQ, banding and noise levels at the high-ISO/low-light end. I won't mention _that_ word in order to avoid waking up the DRones.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

kaihp said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Come on people, the 'upset' thread has nearly twice the responses! Surely there's something about the 5D4 you are excited about.
> ...



I'm not sure it's that much unknown







the 20mp 1dx mark II with new sensor design trashs the 5D Mark III with nearly the same pixel size.


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

kaihp said:


> To my mind, I don't need 30MP (heck, 22MP is usually more than enough for me) so I would have prefered a lower-MP/higher-FPS body than the 30MP/7fps we're supposed to get. Yes, I'm in the minority group and Canon doesn't make a product for me alone (if they did, I couldn't afford it anyway).



The '1DX2-lite' you seek may have died off with the 1D4. I don't ever see Canon making a high fps / low MP rig other than the flagship itself. Perhaps now's a good time to pick up a used 1DX on the cheap?

- A


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > To my mind, I don't need 30MP (heck, 22MP is usually more than enough for me) so I would have prefered a lower-MP/higher-FPS body than the 30MP/7fps we're supposed to get. Yes, I'm in the minority group and Canon doesn't make a product for me alone (if they did, I couldn't afford it anyway).
> ...



Well it all depends what you want to shoot. If portraits and landscapes are your thing, the 5D4 is going to win that argument over the DX2 for most folks. 

If the DP RAW is real and what everyone seems to believe it is, then suddenly Live View shooting for landscape stills may become much more popular than now (unless this feature can used even without LiveView whereby the DPAF pixels dont AF, but just use the dual pixel readout.... who knows... we can go bonkers speculating about this damn thing for the next week) Fun huh?


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## kaihp (Aug 18, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Perhaps now's a good time to pick up a used 1DX on the cheap?


I did  Posted up some shots in the 300/2.8 and 300mm+2xTC threads.
Here's a shot I took the day after I got it and the very first day I tried to use in on roadracing:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=2662.msg607148#msg607148

The 1Dx is a freakn' awesome camera!


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## ahsanford (Aug 18, 2016)

RickSpringfield said:


> Also .. no AA filter on this one.



I have read that in precisely zero places. What's your source? Are you just hoping for this? 

I would think a video-heavy rig would need an AA filter.

- A


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## JonAustin (Aug 19, 2016)

I'm excited that the resolution of the 5D Mark IV is so much higher than I need, that I'll have no trouble passing on it, and getting a 2nd 5D Mark III at closeout, instead. 

After that, I'll sell (or give away) my 20D and 5D, and wait for someone local to put the new 24-105L II out of their 5D IV kit up for sale.


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## docsmith (Aug 19, 2016)

The 5DIII is already an excellent camera. This seems to be an improvement AF owe the board.

That is pretty exciting to me.


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## PureClassA (Aug 19, 2016)

JonAustin said:


> I'm excited that the resolution of the 5D Mark IV is so much higher than I need, that I'll have no trouble passing on it, and getting a 2nd 5D Mark III at closeout, instead.
> 
> After that, I'll sell (or give away) my 20D and 5D, and wait for someone local to put the new 24-105L II out of their 5D IV kit up for sale.



Not sure what sort of "closeout" pricing you expect. It's already about $2250 brand new. With the new model clocking in at $3300 and the 6D lingering around $1400 and no successor coming for another 6-12 months, those remaining 5D3 bodies are gonna stay right about where they are in a perfect price range


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## ahsanford (Aug 19, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > I'm excited that the resolution of the 5D Mark IV is so much higher than I need, that I'll have no trouble passing on it, and getting a 2nd 5D Mark III at closeout, instead.
> ...



+1. Canon will monkey around with the 5D3 price (post-5D4-launch) just enough so that no 5D3s remain by the time the 6D2 is launched. 

I don't think Canon wants a formidable professional grade FF rig with the 1DX AF system drop under $2k while they try to launch the 6D2 around that same price. They want people torn between a 6D2 and 5D4, and not have a middle option for a low price.

- A


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## Hector1970 (Aug 19, 2016)

I'm afraid I'm unexcited by the upgrade.
Maybe the reviews will give a better outcome.
On specs alone it's just an incremental upgrade.
Video seems to have improved.
I'd have been tempted if it were a flippy screen. This would be a great addition.
I'm not sure why Canon don't make it professional grade 
The design where it flips back so the screen side can be completely protected is great.
If the price is €3799 I think it's too much.
I'm probably no longer their target audience as I've too much gear and gear is no longer the limiting factor.
If you were upgrading from APS-C you would be rightfully excited.
It will be a great camera for you.


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## rcarca (Aug 19, 2016)

I am really interested in all the stuff that has come out today (Friday) about the DPAF raw capabilities. Also, I think this "AF 61 points. Corresponding to F8 in all of the distance measuring point. -3EV Corresponding (at the time of live view -4EV)" means that we get a LOT better f8 focussing than just the centre point. Having needed that only last night, that is big news to me, especially if combined with better, usable high ISO.

PS: I couldn't vote on the "what disappoints me" because there wasn't a "nothing" button. Why should I be disappointed, especially since I am not a video guy!


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## ahsanford (Aug 19, 2016)

Not shockingly, the news about the dual-pixel feature coming out has cause a late spike in votes for it.

#dontcallitacomeback

- A


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## PureClassA (Aug 19, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Not shockingly, the news about the dual-pixel feature coming out has cause a late spike in votes for it.
> 
> #dontcallitacomeback
> 
> - A



Funny, I was like, the second person to vote for that LOL. Always ahead of the curve :


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## PureClassA (Aug 19, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> +1. Canon will monkey around with the 5D3 price (post-5D4-launch) just enough so that no 5D3s remain by the time the 6D2 is launched.
> 
> - A



Exactly. They are going to bleed whatever outstanding dealer stock dry first (or as dry as possible) before sending out the 6D2. I imagine it will have a $1799USD launch price (based on the Yen, right NOW). Would be interesting to know how many are left out there. If not mistaken, I believe the 5D3 has been completely out of production now for a couple months, yes? Didn't Craig post something about that not too long ago?


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 21, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Not shockingly, the news about the dual-pixel feature coming out has cause a late spike in votes for it.
> 
> #dontcallitacomeback
> 
> - A


I love your hashtags ;D


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