# Who is waiting for Canon Mirrorless?



## Sith Zombie (May 26, 2012)

Hi All!
I'v been a long time fan of this site but I don't usually participate in forums much, hence just signed up.

Anyway, I'm a canon user [currently use a 40D] who's just stumbled upon mirrorless cameras. At first I dismissed them as being inferior to DSLR's but after a bit of research I began to see useful they could be, and began to see them as 'another weapon in the arsenal'. See, I'm quite protective of my gear [can't afford to replace it :'(] so unless it's for work or a specific project that I'm working on, my 40D isn't always by my side. Which as a photographer, is a fairly stupid situation to be in 

So I thought about waiting for a canon mirrorless so that I can have a 'weapon' by my side at all times.
Now here comes my question: Why wait for Canon?

Well I already own Canon equipment so I guess it is natural to stick to a 'tried and tested', but on more consideration I thought "the lens mount will probably be new, so I'll have to buy new lenses and buy into a system again". I then saw no advantage of waiting for a Canon mirrorless. 

I'm leaning heavily towards a Nex 5n or Lumix G3 [midrange/ mid price]
Just interested in knowing what other users are doing really and why.
Thanks


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## pdirestajr (May 26, 2012)

I would be interested in playing around with a mirrorless body only if it were EF compatible. I don't want to add a whole new system of lenses.


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## darrellrhodesmiller (May 26, 2012)

i dont think there will ever be a perfect solution out there. i am totally waiting on a canon mirrorless. i'm really curious to see what route they take with it. i hope they take a very different route than the competition. There are a lot of consumer/pro-sumer 4/3 mirrorless options.. all are good.. but from the reviews all seem to have some big flaw.. the Sony Nex system gets great reviews but lenses are limited.. i had high hopes for the Olympus OM-D .. but its getting really mixed reviews. 

i'm hoping Canon goes high end with their mirrorless. Yes, they'll get a lot of nay-sayers for the price of it.. but a high end mirrorless solution that sets the bar on quality and low light would be really nice. 

Everyone wants EF mount for this full frame.. if they do that.. what will be the benefit of mirrorless? the camera will be roughly the same size and the mirrored DSLRs.. do i really want to put a canon 70-200 mk II on a "small" mirrorless solution? is it really small at that point? even the primes are big lens comparatively to a mirrorless camera. my 85mm f1.8 is a fairly small lens on my 7D.. but on a mirrorless solution it wont fit in my pocket.. 

i know making cameras is all about tradeoffs.. i'm definitely waiting to see what comes out of canon.. they could take this in so many different directions. 

i'd like 1 of two solutions. 
1) in a perfect world i'd really like something about the size of the Canon gx1.. and i hate to say it.. but something with a new lens mount allowing much smaller lenses.. (something i could sneak into a concert that doesnt allow "professional cameras"

2) an all out professional quality mirrorless solution with EF mount and APC or FF sensor. if they do this i hope they work hard on the user interface of the camera. they dont just tack on the user interface from the 5dmkIII or 7D. i dont want a frankenstein of a camera just cobbled together from other design teams. i hope they really use this as a complete new form of camera.. and get edgy and experimental. touch screen? app on iphone to control it? who knows.. but really turn the camera world upside down with it. Nikon really threw down the gauntlet with the D800.. i'd really love to see canon throw a completely solid curveball back. 

D


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## 7enderbender (May 26, 2012)

I may be interested if this becomes a system where I could use my old FD lenses in a meaningful way - just like this can be done with other mirrorless cameras already. A friend of mine uses a Samsung with some nice old FD glass and loves it.


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## moreorless (May 26, 2012)

Personally I'm not that interested in anything smaller than my 550D, I might be intersted in a larger sensor(ASPH< FF or maybe even MF) system if it keeps the weight/size down a bit though.

If mirrorless does go in a high end direction then aiming for the "budget Leica" market seems the best move to me, quality relatively compact wide/normal primes(and maybe a compact UWA zoom?) that balance on a smaller body well aimed at the street/landscape market where extreme AF performance is less of an issue.

My guess is that Canon will stick to ASPC mirrorless to start with though and only go larger if the market in general follows that direction.


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## Sith Zombie (May 26, 2012)

I guess as canon fans, we're all waiting to see what they bring to the table. As the 5D mkiii proved, they are going to have a tough time pleasing everybody.
Personally if they bought out something like the nex system with a new mount for smaller lenses and an EF mount adapter, i'd be very happy because I could use my existing lenses whilst I slowly purchase the smaller lenses and take advantage of the size difference. Use the DSLR for work and more demanding situations.

I'v noticed a lot of people are enjoying using old lenses on mirrorless systems, its great to see people adapt systems to their needs.


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## paul13walnut5 (May 26, 2012)

I love the small form of cameras like the NEX 7 and really was quite besotted with the GF1, but I never bought...

Already have canon lenses, and a rebel body is quite a nice size for me for a carry around camera.

But I am interested in seeing what Canon bring to the party, particularly regarding optics, I really hope they are EF-s or EF compatable, and would like and APS-C sensor.

My reason is pretty silly.. I just like the aesthetics of pancake lenses, I just think they look very very cool.

Chide me. Just an opinion.


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## Ricku (May 26, 2012)

I am waiting for Canon, or Nikon, or Sony or whoever to release an affordable full frame mirrorless. I'd like it to be similar to the Leica M9, but with a pricetag that doesn't kill your economy!

Tho I'm afraid that Canons first mirrorless camera will be a crapster with a compact sensor.


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## Sith Zombie (May 26, 2012)

Yeah, I'm thinking Sony will possibly get there first as they seem to be doing things a bit different with their slt cameras and aps sized mirrorless. Nikon played it pretty cautiously with the nikon, Canon might play a similar game to test the waters, then hopefully bring out FF mirrorless.


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## Dylan777 (May 26, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> I would be interested in playing around with a mirrorless body only if it were EF compatible. I don't want to add a whole new system of lenses.



With EF lens attachs to mirrorless body, can you put it in your pocket? If yes, I take one.

About s100 when you don't want to carry DSLR.


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## moreorless (May 26, 2012)

One possibility that was mentioned on the lens forum was a more extreme version of Ef-S in a mirrorless system. No idea if its even possible but an EF mount camera that can also mount lenses with a much smaller backfocus distance does seem somewhat interesting. The body might not me much smaller but with up to 40mm of the lens inside it the overall package wouldnt be too much different to the likes of the NEX with a zoom lens.


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## NormanBates (May 26, 2012)

For me, the perfect solution would be an EF-M mount: same shape and electrical conections of EF, but flange distance greatly reduced (less than 20mm, vs 44mm for EF). That way, you could use all EF lenses on an EF-M body by using a trivial adapter (just add distance and connect the electrical contacts). And you'd have more flexibility to design EF-M specific lenses with the back element much closer to the sensor, and also pancakes, etc. And it would support full frame and APS-C sensors.


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## dickgrafixstop (May 27, 2012)

I need a Canon mirrorless system like a fish needs a bicycle. Whatever it is, it probably won't be much smaller
than the current Rebel, will require a new lens system, and won't get significantly better images. A G1X with
interchangeable lenses? A Rebel without a prism? Who cares?


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## krjc (May 27, 2012)

For me not at all interested. After i digest the purchase of my 5D3 I will be getting a G1X.


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## J (May 27, 2012)

Since we're wishing, I'd basically like a Fuji X-like system, but with sensor phase detect.


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## sandymandy (May 27, 2012)

I always wonder how a tiny mirrorless camera and telezoom lenses will balance out. New lens mount would suck too. Please include an adapter.


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## Bennymiata (May 27, 2012)

I was in the same quandry, and just bought a G1X, mainly for my wife to use.

I found the mirrorless cameras with a decent sized sensor that were really good were just too expensive for what they offer, and then the lenses are so big and having to carry around a group of lenses just defeats the whole purpose IMHO.

90% of my shots are with my 24-105, so the G1X fills the bill perfectly without having to buy a whole slew of new lenses, and putting on EF-s or EF lenses on a tiny body just seems ridiculous to me.
I tried a NEX-7, and found the big lens on the end of it was very unbalanced to hold comfortably.


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## mws (May 27, 2012)

I can't wait to see what Canon does in this area. More then anything I want it to be somewhat pocketable (coat/cargo shorts etc) Right now I'm using a 50D w/grip and plan on upgrading to a 5Diii, and just want something smaller to take places, a big SLR is just intimidating in some settings. 

I would love it to be full frame, but have a feeling that it will be a C size sensor. If it's anything less then C size, I will be disappointed, I really want the shallow DOF. Sony has done nice things with in C size with the Nex line up, I'm always surprised they don't get more press. 

There will almost have to to be a new lens mount, which I don't mind, as long as there are adapters that allow full use of EF and EF-S lenses. If Canon doesn't make them, someone else will. Canon would be dumb not to.

Ideally I would love something similar to the M9, that doesn't cost a fortune. (Even if that doesn't fit in a pocket)

I actually got sick of waiting and just recently picked up a Lumix GF2 with 14mm pancake of ebay for only 300 to play with in the mean time. I've heard a lot of really good things on the Lumix series. Actually I wonder if Canon would ever release anything in the 4/3s format? That would be interesting.........


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## EvilTed (May 27, 2012)

"Since we're wishing, I'd basically like a Fuji X-like system, but with sensor phase detect."

If they manage to get decent AF and not lock the camera up every day, then yes.
The X-Pro 1 is buggy as all hell and very frustrating for a body and lens that cost $2300 

ET


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## elflord (May 27, 2012)

Sith Zombie said:


> I'm leaning heavily towards a Nex 5n or Lumix G3 [midrange/ mid price]
> Just interested in knowing what other users are doing really and why.
> Thanks



Yes, if/when Canon ships a new system, it will be with a new lens mount. There will be maybe 3 native lenses, including a slow kit zoom, a slow superzoom and maybe a 17mm f/2.8 lens. If they shipped an adapted that provided aperture control and AF, that might be a point in favor of them, though the adapted lenses will only work well if the adapter includes phase detect AF (like Sonys)
Both Micro 4/3 and Sony will adapt just about any lens (manual focus only), some lenses (like Canon FD) are available used for cheap. Sony enthusiasts tend to use adapted lenses a lot (because the native AF lenses are rubbish for the most part)

I went with micro 4/3 (Panasonic GF2) because I wanted micro 4/3 (they have the most mature mirrorless system -- plenty of good native AF lenses -- Olympus 12mm f/2, Panasonic 25mm f/1.4, Panasonic 20mm f/1.7, Olympus 45mm f/1.8, and the up coming panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8, Oly 75mm f/1.8) and also picked up the 20mm f/1.7. The Sony NEX cameras have better sensors but a weaker system of lenses. 

The Panasonic G3 you are considering is a good pick if you want something at a good price with a viewfinder.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 27, 2012)

I've read all the hype about mirrorless, so I went to my local Camera store, they have a fair selection. I was generally disappointed in them. No wide lenses (wider than 24mm equiv) Most had no viewfinder, or a add-on klunky thing.

The best of the bunch seemed to me to be the Sony Nex 7, but it still lacked wide, and the evf turning the rear lcd display on asnd off continuously was disconcerting. The camera seemed fragile as well.

I'd be more incliined to go for a FF mirrorless camera that used EF lenses and had full time phase detect AF. The size is not a big deal, but dumping the clacking mirror would be welcome. Pellicle mirrors are not on my wish list, they lose too much light.


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## elflord (May 27, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've read all the hype about mirrorless, so I went to my local Camera store, they have a fair selection. I was generally disappointed in them. No wide lenses (wider than 24mm equiv) Most had no viewfinder, or a add-on klunky thing.



Your impressions based on your trip to the camera store do not accurately reflect the current state of the art. 

There are several models with built in viewfinders. Among micro 4/3 cameras alone, Panasonic G series and GH series have built in viewfinders, as does the Olympus OM-D.

Panasonic makes a 7-14mm lens, and Olympus makes a 9-18mm lens. Samyang has a 7.5mm fish eye and Panasonic has an 8mm fisheye. Of these lenses, the Panasonic is probably 7-14mm has the best reputation. 

I'm not as familiar with the other systems, but Sony and Fuji definitely have cameras available with built in viewfinders. Most of the other systems do not have as good a range of lenses as micro 4/3.


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## briansquibb (May 27, 2012)

The technology is not important - it is the image that is


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## wickidwombat (May 27, 2012)

there are a few things to consider really, the m4/3 systems etc that have interchangeable lenses still mean carrying a nit of gear and they are not really that cheap, also the lenses are pretty ordinary maybe the ziess stuff is good but now we are talking more expensive.
really you may as well just get some insurance cover and use the 40D in this case

I chose a fuji x10 for a small portable cam when i am too lazy to carry the big gear around
yeah its a smallish sensor but its sensor is really quite good and word is that fuji has a replacement sensor to fix the white orb issue.
also while no interchangable lens (a good thing on a small camera thats supposed to stop you carrying too much gear) the 28-112 f2-2.8 lens on the x10 is really really good and enables you to shoto in low light especially if you are shooting in the low signal noise mode

a complaint here is it is extremely vague on how these modes work and when they work
at fisrt i didnt think it worked in raw but after some research as long as you set M for image size it will shoot 6MP raws and use the EXR tech

the new firmware is nice and has allowed customisation of the raw button, i have this set to adjust DR
then have C1 and C2 settings configured to M images size and Full size so when in C1 i can just change the DR settign to go from signal noise function 100% DR or over to dynamic range function 400% and then over to C2 if i want to shoot a 12MP normal image

Auto iso works really quite well. AF is not too bad, not fast by say 1D standards but not bad, you can select focus point as spot focus and the focus points are spread all over the frame.

the strap that comes with it is too short unless youa re only 4 foot tall, i got a longer one so i can wear it accross my body and have it hang at my waste

definately worth looking at

overall the fuji is pretty good as a little carry all the time beast


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## rumorzmonger (May 27, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> The technology is not important - it is the image that is



Which I precisely why I've sold all of my m4/3 gear and gone back to a full-frame Canon system.


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## Radiating (May 28, 2012)

I currently shoot with a T2i and 5D3 and want something even smaller than the T2i as a "mini DSLR". The sony NEX would be perfect if it were compatible with my EF lenses.

Canon needs to release a sony nex clone which is EF compatible, with an APS-C sensor.


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## elflord (May 28, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> there are a few things to consider really, the m4/3 systems etc that have interchangeable lenses still mean carrying a nit of gear and they are not really that cheap, also the lenses are pretty ordinary



The older bodies are pretty cheap these days. The better lenses are relatively at a bit of a premium because they are all 2008 or later.

You can choose how much gear you want to use. I have the GF2 with a panasonic 20mm f/1.7. It already has a built-in flash which can be tilted upward (so it can be bounced in horizontal orientation) -- not quite up there with the 430EX but good enough that I don't feel the need to rush out and buy a flash. I have some adapters so that I can mount my Canon glass -- so I have the 50mm f/1.4 and 35mm f/1.4 as portrait lenses. If I want a portrait lens with AF there's always the Olympus 45mm -- I could add this to my kit and still be under $1k for the whole setup.


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## Sith Zombie (May 28, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> really you may as well just get some insurance cover and use the 40D in this case


Not a bad point actually! Although I was looking forward to getting video functions and I'm guessing IQ would be a slight step up if I went for a nex [and a decent affordable lens came out] but still a good idea, I wouldn't be so worried about breaking/losing it with insurance.


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## dtameling (May 28, 2012)

I was eagerly waiting for a Canon mirrorless. I'm not in as big a hurry any more because Sony beat them to the punch with what I was looking for. I've been using the NEX-7 for a little while now and the only thing it's missing is EF lens compatibility. With the (hard to get) Metabones adapter, that's less an issue now than it used to be.

I've been doing street shooting, events, wedding video and all sorts of stuff with it and it's easily the equal of my 7D...if not better. If it weren't for a strong stock of EF lenses, I'd consider walking away from Canon.

If Canon does it right, I'll buy...but it's going to be tough given the head start other companies have.


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## RLPhoto (May 28, 2012)

Give me a camera and ill get something good out of it. 

I like the idea of mirrorless but with a canon system it would be nice to have the mirrorless compatible with my current SLR system. I've been waiting for canon to release its system and hopefully an EF adapter to mount my current lenses.

If a mirrorless system is released, Id probably just buy a Fast 50mm and the body only at release. I dont like the current offerings from other systems because of the reason above.

Impatience is an expensive commodity, and i'm willing to wait for canon. 8)


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## drjlo (May 28, 2012)

Whatever Canon does, they'd better make sure their mirrorless body sports a regular Canon hotshoe, i.e. all the Canon and third party speedlites, triggers, and accessories. If they put a dinky pop-up flash and skip the regular hotshoe, end of consideration.


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## dtameling (May 28, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> Give me a camera and ill get something good out of it.
> 
> I like the idea of mirrorless but with a canon system it would be nice to have the mirrorless compatible with my current SLR system. I've been waiting for canon to release its system and hopefully an EF adapter to mount my current lenses.
> 
> ...



The small body combined with a fast prime is gold even without autofocus. Some of the best shots I've taken is gold. If Canon makes a mirrorless and doesn't include focus peaking, they lose...all cameras need an EVF or hybrid EVF and must have focus peaking in the future or I won't buy. Who cares how many AF points there are when I can see everything including DOF at a glance.


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## tnargs (May 29, 2012)

darrellrhodesmiller said:


> ....i hope they really use this as a complete new form of camera.. and get edgy and experimental....



You must know a company called Canon that I dont! ;D (P.S. Nikon did that, I think, with the '1'. And people are so harsh...)

Canon have always been proud of their full systems. I think they would be reluctant to release an all new system and be choked by a weak link like poor range of lenses.

It is POSSIBLE that their delay in entry has been to prepare a decent full system. They have the resources and the reputation .... but they would have to be sure that this is the future of the consumer camera.

I think micro 43 is the right-size package, combining body size, sensor size and lens size. In my dream Canon would release a m43 compatible series, because they think it is so important to have a full range of lenses available. Then they could start releasing Canon m43 lenses that only work on the Canon bodies.


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## briansquibb (May 29, 2012)

tnargs said:


> I think micro 43 is the right-size package, combining body size, sensor size and lens size.



Micro43 :

- too big for the pocket
- too small for my hand


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## wickidwombat (May 29, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> - too small for my hand



[in voice of gimli] AND MY NOSE!


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## briansquibb (May 29, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > - too small for my hand
> ...



;D ;D ;D


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## Daniel Flather (May 29, 2012)

I just left crop sensors in the past, so it has to be full frame. I doubt Canon will release a full frame camera on the first time out, maybe, just maybe, Canon will prove me to be incorrect.


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## moreorless (May 30, 2012)

Daniel Flather said:


> I just left crop sensors in the past, so it has to be full frame. I doubt Canon will release a full frame camera on the first time out, maybe, just maybe, Canon will prove me to be incorrect.



I'd guess the only hope in that reguard maybe that Canon look to counter the D600 with a budget mirrorless FF option.


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## VASH1291 (May 30, 2012)

Got a 7D with L glass atm and would love a smaller camera to use in places where they don't allow DSLR's or when weight is a big concern :


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## briansquibb (May 30, 2012)

VASH1291 said:


> Got a 7D with L glass atm and would love a smaller camera to use in places where they don't allow DSLR's or when weight is a big concern :



Like the Leica M8 with its APS-H sensor


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## VASH1291 (May 31, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> VASH1291 said:
> 
> 
> > Got a 7D with L glass atm and would love a smaller camera to use in places where they don't allow DSLR's or when weight is a big concern :
> ...



M9 lover myself 8)


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## dok (May 31, 2012)

I actually have an APS-C Canon EOS. My next step will be full frame for sure and I think I'll go for a 5DII pretty soon. Unless this mirorless is FF too. I see one HUGE advantage on mirrorless cameras : short register allowing to put approximately every existing old lenses (MF especially) like M42 or Canon FD for example.

If Canon were to release a FF mirrorless, damn, this camera would be very, very popular on forums dedicated to MF lenses like http://www.mflenses.com/

I don't really care about the size, more about what a short register can allow. That means of course for me that is as to be fully compatible with EF mount.

I guess mirrorless FF is highly unlikely like many already said here


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## jd (Jun 1, 2012)

Here's my wish list: Full frame (or larger!) sensor with at least 36 megapixels. 3.5 x 3.5 ultra high resolution display for live view. Direct EOS lens support for my L and ZE glass. Make in the form factor of a Leica M9 or even better, a Ricoh GXR. I shoot a 5D2 and an M9 and love each for what they do best. 5D2 for sports and macro and the M9 for everything else. Of course, I'd love to see an M10 with 36+ megapixels, high resolution live view and M mount support. But I'm probably not in the Canon target audience - I have an M Monochrom on order and will travel from SoCal to Cologne for Photokina in September just for fun! Oh yes, I have a Ricoh GXR with the A11 M mount adapter. Pretty cool deal with my M glass. I use it all time.


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