# Whortwhile to go for 5D Mark II?



## Marco (Dec 15, 2011)

I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before. I was quite interested in 5DMII when i tcame but when it was revealed that the video functions were not the best I put everything on hold hoping that a new camera would come later on.

As I'm still heading for a full framer I wonder if the newer DMII's have been uppgrade with better firmware/functions making it worth while buying? My goal is to get rid of my old heavy video camera and have a modern SLR instead. Would appreciate if some one with experience could tell me what the difference with old and new 5DMII is today? The price is definetly very appealing.

Marco


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## fabio.adurno (Dec 15, 2011)

Marco said:


> I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before. I was quite interested in 5DMII when i tcame but when it was revealed that the video functions were not the best I put everything on hold hoping that a new camera would come later on.
> 
> As I'm still heading for a full framer I wonder if the newer DMII's have been uppgrade with better firmware/functions making it worth while buying? My goal is to get rid of my old heavy video camera and have a modern SLR instead. Would appreciate if some one with experience could tell me what the difference with old and new 5DMII is today? The price is definetly very appealing.
> 
> Marco



I bought the 5DMKII in November 2011 and I've never been so happy. The price was really convenient considering that it is a full frame camera. I think that we still have to wait 1 year to see a possible 5DMKIII available, however even if you are willing to wait one year, you should look at the price history of the 5DMKII. It has been sold at 3.000 EUR / USD for a while. To be honest I'm not willing to spend so much, this is one of the main reasons why I decided to go for the MKII instead of wait for the MKIII...


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 15, 2011)

Marco said:


> I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before.



Presumably you had a film SLR? If so, was it an EOS model? If you have EF lenses, great. But, if you have FD lenses an adapter is required, which usually leads to decreased image quality (assuming you want to maintain infinity focus).



Marco said:


> My goal is to get rid of my old heavy video camera and have a modern SLR instead.



What is your intended use in terms of video? Be aware that the 5DII is nothing like a video camera. For example, it does not autofocus during video shooting, usually requires a tripod with fluid head or a rig for handholding, etc. If you're aiming to produce films or willing to put in a lot of work and some additional expense, great, but if your goal is just to shoot simple videos, a new camcorder might serve you better (I have two video-capable dSLRs, but for family videos it's much, much easier to just grab my Vixia HF M41 camcorder).


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## Maui5150 (Dec 15, 2011)

I spent 7 months or so in the 7D vs 5DMKII camp and flipped back and forth more than a politician... Pretty much almost an acrobat or gymnast at that point. 

I just pulled the shutter on the 5DMKII end of last month and am happy. 

Will it be "outdated" in a year. Yup... but then again, the 5DMKIII will be outdated by the middle of 2013 as well.

I stepped up from my T2i and the biggest factor to me was going FF and getting better IQ. That being said, the 5D MKII AF I wish had more points, especially when I am shooting fashion in lower light, but the end result over the next 6 months or how ever long until the 5DMKIII is available, I am MUCH happier with my images, my models love them, and I really like the step up. The net result come next year, I will be a better photographer than if I had just shot the T2i.


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## skitron (Dec 15, 2011)

For me it was price driven. I just bought a 5D2 from Adorama for $2K bundled with nice bag and 3 Red Giant plugins (all current versions, all that I will find useful even though one is actually a video only plugin). Not grey market, came with full Canon USA warranty. I figure at this price I can sell it for a small loss later down the road if the 5D3 ever does materialize and I just have to have it, and I'll still have the plugins. Plus for me it is a business expense I can apply to this tax year.


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## motorhead (Dec 15, 2011)

I've only very recently bought a new (body only) 5D2. This was based on advise from someone I trust in my local photo shop while we were both watching a presentation of the new 1Dx by a Canon rep.

I told him I was very interested in a 1Ds3 if he ever had one come in used. I happened to know of one that was heading his way. His answer surprised me.

While happy to turn the 1Ds3 around for a quick and painless profit, he advised me that in his opinion the 5D2 was a better bet, given what he knew of my photographic interests. With grip and part ex on my 30D (& grip) it has come to around Â£1600.

I have to admit that I'm still slowly recovering from a long (and undiagnosed!) illness that has beaten the medical profession, so have yet to use the camera seriously, but I'm very happy with what I have seen from the test shots I've taken.


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## 7enderbender (Dec 15, 2011)

Marco said:


> I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before. I was quite interested in 5DMII when i tcame but when it was revealed that the video functions were not the best I put everything on hold hoping that a new camera would come later on.
> 
> As I'm still heading for a full framer I wonder if the newer DMII's have been uppgrade with better firmware/functions making it worth while buying? My goal is to get rid of my old heavy video camera and have a modern SLR instead. Would appreciate if some one with experience could tell me what the difference with old and new 5DMII is today? The price is definetly very appealing.
> 
> Marco



Marco, welcome.

Hard to say what is right for you. I came in from a similar angle last year. I had been postponing going digital (with my SLR) for several years because things just didn't seem to be quite there yet or were too expensive (given that I had to start from scratch since my old Canon FD system is not really compatible with anything serious). A fat bonus last year and the availability of the 5DII at a more reasonable price point made me take the plunge. Haven't regretted it for one second. Is everything 100% perfect and the way I would want things? No. But what really is? It's pretty close to perfect even.

As far as video capability goes: I have no idea and have never used it. For video I prefer designated video cameras and based on what I've read from other people would caution anyone to think of a DSLR as a replacement for that. Yes, these cameras can deliver stunning results that due to the sensor size and high ISO capabilities look very film like under certain conditions. And I see why video pros with a larger budget are drawn to these options (likely in addition to other cameras). For good results it appears you need a lot of expensive additional gear (viewfinders/screens, steady-cam frames, a well thought out selection of specialized lenses, audio gear, etc). Not sure if that makes it really cheaper or lighter in the end compared to what you may be using now.

For photography the 5DII is one of a few available alternatives that will be as good or better (depending how you look at various aspects) as your current 35mm film cameras (guessing that you have an EOS film body plus EF lenses right now). In fact, I find it so good that I've been tossing around the idea of getting a second body given the current discounts putting it at around $2000. I don't expect to see anything new coming out any time soon that would be more interesting for me.


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## TexPhoto (Dec 15, 2011)

If you need a camera right now, it's a great camera and will shoot great photos. If you have a good camera and can wait, I'd wait, but 6 and 12 months ago, people were airing for the immanent release of the 5DIII.

I had a friend who sold his 5DIII in July so as not to loose out on the drop in value. He has been shooting with a 20D since then (and cussing a lot).


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## Maui5150 (Dec 15, 2011)

I am also not sure what that price point drop may be.

I expect the 5DMK3 to be closer to the $3K range or at least mid to high $2Ks and just because a new one is out, especially if it is close to $1000 more does not mean a price plummet. I do expect once the 5DMK3 is out the MK2 will drop, but I still see extremely good condition 5Ds selling for 1200+, with highly used ones being more in the $900 plus range, and that camera is now 6 years old and about to be 2 generations old.

will the 5DMKII drop when the 3 comes out. Yup?, but ANY CAMERA will. Especially if you are using it. 

I cherry picked my 5D MKII with less than 500 actuations and while it will be worth less than the $1850 I paid, I figure by the time I am ready to upgrade to the 5DMKIII it might turn out to cost me $1/day, maybe a little more. That is not too bad of a price to pay to shoot on a 5DMKII versus a T2i.


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## justsomedude (Dec 15, 2011)

Maui5150 said:


> Will it be "outdated" in a year. Yup... but then again, the 5DMKIII will be outdated by the middle of 2013 as well.



+1

Maui5150 nailed it. There will _always_ be something newer, better, faster, lighter, more MPs, less noise, more dollars, faster write, bigger memory card, etc. If you always wanted to wait for the "next best thing", you'd never ever buy anything.

The 5D is a superb camera and will serve you well for a long to come - if it raises the quality of your product *NOW*, improves the level of the service you can provide *NOW*... why wait? $1,999 is a steal.


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## Caps18 (Dec 15, 2011)

I purchased my 5Dm2 28 months ago, and it is still a great camera. Even when a new camera comes out, it will still be a great camera. 

I will have mine for the next 8-10 years or longer. It doesn't take worse photos over time. HDR and 30-40 Megapixels with a backlit sensor and low noise would tempt me.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 15, 2011)

Marco said:


> I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before. I was quite interested in 5DMII when i tcame but when it was revealed that the video functions were not the best I put everything on hold hoping that a new camera would come later on.
> 
> As I'm still heading for a full framer I wonder if the newer DMII's have been uppgrade with better firmware/functions making it worth while buying? My goal is to get rid of my old heavy video camera and have a modern SLR instead. .
> 
> Marco



Marco, a DSLR is not yet a replacement for a camcorder. The 5D MK II FF image made it very popular with cinematographers on a budget who were willing to work around its shortcomings to get video with low light sensitivity and depth of fieds that, in 2008, that was only available on $200K cameras.

However, be aware - No autofocus means that your camera will not automatically keep a moving subject in focus, and focusing manually on a moving subject is not something easily done. It really is different from a camcorder.

Editing the video can also be difficult, its not a easy format to edit, but at least, there is now low cost software that can handle editing on a fairly powerful computer with good video card. In 2008-2009, this was a big issue.


Movie makers get by with what is basically APS-C format (Super 35), and there are a few APS-C digital Cameras that do autofocus while shooting video, so for replacing a camcorder, give those a look. The Sony Nex 7, is brand new and very popular among enthusiasts. It too has limitations shooting video, so read the reviews very carefully and understand its limitations.


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## elflord (Dec 16, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marco said:
> 
> 
> > I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before.
> ...



Marco, if you have FD lenses, it is easier to use them with a mirrorless camera (Sony NEX or Micro 4/3) than it is with a Canon EF mount camera. The NEX and Micro 4/3 mounts can adapt EF mount lenses without corrective optics. 



Marco said:


> If you're aiming to produce films or willing to put in a lot of work and some additional expense, great, but if your goal is just to shoot simple videos, a new camcorder might serve you better (I have two video-capable dSLRs, but for family videos it's much, much easier to just grab my Vixia HF M41 camcorder).



Completely agree with this and similar comments from others. I have a 5D Mark II, but I still kept my cheap camcorder.


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## elflord (Dec 16, 2011)

elflord said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Marco said:
> ...


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## Isaac (Dec 19, 2011)

Wait for the 5D mark III - you'll be happy you did.


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## Maui5150 (Dec 19, 2011)

[sarcasm on]

I would wait for the 5D MK IV. Yes it is 3 years off, but with 45MP, 10 FPS burst, and extremely high ISO, and dual DIGIC-6 processors and 75 AF points, it is hard to beat. You get the 5D MKIII and you will be disappointed when this super-body is released and you have the MKIII... Not to mention the price drop once the 5D MKIV is announced. 

[sarcasm off]

If you need to shoot, it is hard to go wrong with the 5D MK II, especially if their are delays in production, availability, as well as the price may be up there as well for the first few months.


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

I got the 5d2 because I was sick and tired of waiting for the 5d3... going from a 7d to the 5d2 has been very humbling with the autofocus... Quality of file, when in focus, is great, but my lord, the AF in the 5d2 is like putting an Hyundai engine inside a Ferrari... It's truely a shame and I will be liquidating mine once the 5d3 comes out assuming it has better AF...


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## skitron (Dec 19, 2011)

Even though I got a "good deal" on mine ($2K bundled with Red Giant software and bag), IMO it is still overpriced. If you think about it from a pure manufacturing point of view we get about the same amount of "stuff" as a 7D assuming a tradeoff between sensor size and extra digic processors and the like, but then it doesn't even have a flash so 5D2 is actually *less* "stuff" than 7D. 

If you think about it from a pure R$D amortization perspective the 5D2 is just a repackaging of existing technologies whereas 7D had new sensor and new autofocus...clearly more with the 7D.

So 5D2 pricing is similar to that of gemstones where parameter grading determines the price. I'm pretty confident it costs more to manufacture a 7D and clearly its R$D costs amortized later. 

As far as marketing strategies, I suspect the 5D3 is both imminent in the very near future and it will completely obsolete the 5D2 in every respect. Otherwise why would Canon take a bunch "finally got tired of waiting for 5D3" customers out of the market by selling them a "cheap" 5D2? That is, unless Canon is betting that many recent buyers of 5D2 will dump for a $600 loss to immediately buy the 5D3? Or... 5D3 will be much more expensive and Canon figures those who've been waiting and then bit on the $2K bundle wouldn't pay $3200 for a body? (they'd be right in my case)


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## scottkinfw (Dec 19, 2011)

I just ordered mine at 2K USD, and it should be here tomorrow. It came bundled with memory, additional software (?if I will use it), and a shoulder bag. I don't analyze if it it over priced regarding r&d costs vs. time it has been in production. The price point is excellent for this camera imho, so I pulled the trigger. 

I got tired of waiting for the mk3 to appear.

When the mk3 does appear, and if I like it, and if it does what I need, I will trade in my 50D ( which doesn't seem to put out great pics for some reason, despite being sent in several times to Canon), and use get it then. A second/backup camera is a good idea anyway.

So, if you can and want to wait, do so. When the next version will arrive??? Price??? Actual features???

sek


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## Jedifarce (Dec 19, 2011)

Marco said:


> I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before. I was quite interested in 5DMII when i tcame but when it was revealed that the video functions were not the best I put everything on hold hoping that a new camera would come later on.
> 
> As I'm still heading for a full framer I wonder if the newer DMII's have been uppgrade with better firmware/functions making it worth while buying? My goal is to get rid of my old heavy video camera and have a modern SLR instead. Would appreciate if some one with experience could tell me what the difference with old and new 5DMII is today? The price is definetly very appealing.
> 
> Marco



Just understand that the while the price of the 5D appears appealing, the accessories necessary to make it a "movie platform" is not. 

You'll want a good fluid video head that might run anywhere from $300-$1000 or more, and a heavy tripod = expensive or go cheap as you want (even a monopod), video rig that might go around another $1000 or more, external monitor - $500-$1000 or more - because the LCD is impossible to rely upon to pull focus or a Z-finder (you'll have to look online for that price), and to pull focus smoothly of course you'll need a follow focus w/gears (my follow focus cost around $900 with the various sized gears), The lenses range anywhere from a $200-to as high as you want to go. Extra batteries, extra compact flash cards, ND filters, UV filters, which could come to another $500-$1000. 

Even after investing all that money you'll find you can't pan very fast due to rolling shutter, the equipment becomes very heavy, and you have to film everything in manual. Even filming at f/4 if people are moving into and out of range quickly you'll constantly lose focus. I have all these things and I still went out and bought a Canon HF G10 just to film a ice skating Christmas show a few weeks ago. That should tell you something about the limitations of owning a 5D Mark II.


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## Jedifarce (Dec 19, 2011)

scottkinfw said:


> I just ordered mine at 2K USD, and it should be here tomorrow. It came bundled with memory, additional software (?if I will use it),



Yah, don't just toss the EOS utility disk to the side and make sure you download it to your computer right away otherwise you'll be screwed if ever want to get the Cinestyle picture style developed by Technicolor for Canon. You have to have the EOS utiility program on your computer to download the Cinestyle picture style to your camera. The Cinestyle picture style is a 'Flat' style that retains detail in your footage but it has to be color graded in post.


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## skitron (Dec 19, 2011)

Jedifarce said:


> Just understand that the while the price of the 5D appears appealing, the accessories necessary to make it "movie platform" is not...
> 
> ...That should tell you something about the limitations of owning a 5D Mark II.



In my case 5D2 limitations are well known. I need the video for business purposes and that footage will be interviews in controlled conditions so 5D2 is a good choice for it (given I also want what it does for stills). I use a CX550 for chasing the kids and such, the Sony hybrid IS is impossible to beat, hopefully 5D3 implements something like it... 

That said, it appears I'll need to test 5D2 autofocus carefully in low light. If it's worse than the 50D center point, it goes back where it came from...


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## Maui5150 (Dec 19, 2011)

Not sure I can agree with the 7D being more expensive to make than the 5DMK II. 

Yeah, a larger FF sensor with better ISO has to be cheaper? 

How does that 7D do shooting above 6400 vs the 5D MK II? Care to step above 12800? 

Hmmmm... Are the EF-S lenses weather-sealed? So if you want to shoot wide-angle on a 7D and be weather sealed, how do you plan to do that? The 10-22 is a great lens. I have enjoyed it on my 550D, sealed lens like the 17-40 or 16-35 aren't exactly wide on the 7D.

Depth of Field?

Will the 5D MK III be a better camera. Yup. Will it be more expensive. You bet. It is funny. I can go back and sell discussion of the 5D MK III pretty much 6 months ago plus... and yet... still no announcement. I do expect one on 2012, but thinking more later than earlier.


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## skitron (Dec 19, 2011)

Maui5150 said:


> Not sure I can agree with the 7D being more expensive to make than the 5DMK II.



Oh I don't disagree that the IQ and ISO performance are better in 5D2. I did buy one for a reason.  But I seriously doubt it costs more to manufacture a 5D2 than it does to manufacture a 7D. The point of my comments were not directed to the relative merits in the field of 5D2 vs 7D but rather to the economics of cranking them out.


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## crjiro (Dec 19, 2011)

Marco said:


> I have waited for too long time to finally be able to buy my first digital SLR-camera, which has to be a Canon due to all the lenses I have since before. I was quite interested in 5DMII when i tcame but when it was revealed that the video functions were not the best I put everything on hold hoping that a new camera would come later on.
> 
> As I'm still heading for a full framer I wonder if the newer DMII's have been uppgrade with better firmware/functions making it worth while buying? My goal is to get rid of my old heavy video camera and have a modern SLR instead. Would appreciate if some one with experience could tell me what the difference with old and new 5DMII is today? The price is definetly very appealing.
> 
> Marco



Based on what you said about getting rid of your video cam..(since your focus is Video), i would say wait for MkIII. If it were stills, then i think there is some justification to buying MkII now based on and depending on the type of stills-work you do and output you use. The bang4buck factor is really good now. That is another consideration if budget is an issue. MkIII will be around 3.2-3.5K my guess...initially.


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## K-amps (Dec 19, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> I got the 5d2 because I was sick and tired of waiting for the 5d3... going from a 7d to the 5d2 has been very humbling with the autofocus... Quality of file, when in focus, is great, but my lord, the AF in the 5d2 is like putting an Hyundai engine inside a Ferrari... It's truely a shame and I will be liquidating mine once the 5d3 comes out assuming it has better AF...



I am relatively new to the game and photography is a hobby for me... so new that I usually center spot AF my shots (unless I macro, then I MF) . When I hear many people not liking the AF of the 5D2, I cannot understand why (not because I offer a competing perspective, but simply because I do not know better): I am learning yes... but ; can anyone dumb this down for me... how exactly is the AF on the 5D2 not up to what you guys want? Is it just plain accuracy, or slow AF, or the processor's inability to set a multi point focus by increasing DoF or what? 

The answer to this might help me make a decision on the 5d2 or 5d3 or even 7d just like the OP.


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## briansquibb (Dec 19, 2011)

If you centre spot the AF on the 5DII then you will get accurate AF. It is the focus points outside the center which are not good in low light and also the area the the A points cover is less than the 7D

In hindsight buying the 7D was a mistake as the IQ of the image is nowhere as good as the 7D, plus the bokeh is very poor. The 7D will get more in forcus pictures but none of them will be as good as the in focus 5DII picture


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## K-amps (Dec 19, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> If you centre spot the AF on the 5DII then you will get accurate AF. It is the focus points outside the center which are not good in low light and also the area the the A points cover is less than the 7D
> 
> In hindsight buying the 7D was a mistake as the IQ of the image is nowhere as good as the 7D, plus the bokeh is very poor. The 7D will get more in forcus pictures but none of them will be as good as the in focus 5DII picture



Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).


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## briansquibb (Dec 19, 2011)

K-amps said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > If you centre spot the AF on the 5DII then you will get accurate AF. It is the focus points outside the center which are not good in low light and also the area the the A points cover is less than the 7D
> ...



I think it is faster, but that is just my impression, not measured. The AF on the 5DII is about the same as the 50D for speed.


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

K-amps said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I got the 5d2 because I was sick and tired of waiting for the 5d3... going from a 7d to the 5d2 has been very humbling with the autofocus... Quality of file, when in focus, is great, but my lord, the AF in the 5d2 is like putting an Hyundai engine inside a Ferrari... It's truely a shame and I will be liquidating mine once the 5d3 comes out assuming it has better AF...
> ...



As brian mentioned, the outside points are few and not that accurate... The 7d for instance has 19 (18 outside points) to the 5d2's 9 (8 outside points) and all the 7d's points are more spread out and cross type points where the 5d's are single line points so the 7d's outter points are a lot more accurate... Plus the focus tracking where the AF can follow a subject is more advanced on the 7d vs the 5d2... For those jumping from the XXD or even the rebels may find the 5d2 AF very nice and good, but for those going from the 7d, the AF isn't anything to write home about, unless you're writing home to gripe about missed shots that were focused on the subjects nose and not their eyes. Short answer the 7d allows you to compose more before you shoot rather than shoot and crop in post...


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 19, 2011)

K-amps said:


> Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).



The AF sensor is identical - Canon reused the same sensor from the 5D in the 5DII. But the 5DII uses Digic 4, whereas the 5D used Digic 2 - the newer and faster processor in the 5DII means the AF is slightly faster.


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > briansquibb said:
> ...



From my experience with the 50d, the 5d is as FAST as the 50D, but not nearly as accurate... at least the 50D has all cross sensors... i never really had a problem with the 50D's focus... i just hated it's noise compared to the 7D, IMO


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## RonQ (Dec 19, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).
> ...


So then with that said, how can you take a group portrait using the center point only for focusing on the 5D11? If that's the case, then everone off center will be out of focus...


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

RonQ said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...



Well everything not on the same focal plane as what was focused upon from the center point... But then again that's where you use a smaller f-stop and try to get everyone in focus assuming that's what you want...


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## K-amps (Dec 19, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> RonQ said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Thanks for your responses: Awin/John & Brian 

Interesting.. never ran into this issue ;D... now I will look out for it... but in this scenario, by focal plane, do you mean a straight line horizonal (along which the group is standing; gets all in focus, or is the plane sort of semi-circular so that all points are equi-distant to the lens?


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

K-amps said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > RonQ said:
> ...



Focal plane is usually the horizontal distance from the lens/sensor... So in a group, everyone side by side by side should all be in focus... but for instance if you have them kind of cascading away from the camera, whatever you focus on will have the focal plane and as they leave the focal plane they will gradually fall out of focus... In some lenses/cameras such as tilt shifts and large formats you can manipulate the focal plane to go vertically rather than horizontal or every which way, but that's another topic for another day.


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## briansquibb (Dec 19, 2011)

RonQ said:


> So then with that said, how can you take a group portrait using the center point only for focusing on the 5D11? If that's the case, then everone off center will be out of focus...



Try focusing at f/8 or more which is what I do for weddings ....

You will need good DOF for groups as they never stand in a single plane for you


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## K-amps (Dec 19, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> ..... manipulate the focal plane to go vertically rather than horizontal or every which way, but that's another topic for another day.




Haha Rhyming man. 

I guess I never took group shots with people in multiple rows, mine are usually in 1 line with my 24-105F4 and with that I never have such problems at the distance I shoot them from.


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

K-amps said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ..... manipulate the focal plane to go vertically rather than horizontal or every which way, but that's another topic for another day.
> ...



Your depth of field of your focal plane depends on a lot of factors including aperture, distance of your subjects to your camera, angle of view, sensor size, etc... typically in groups you should be fine unless for instance bigger groups or if you have people in front or below other people or such... but typically you're back far enough not to be a problem for the most part unless your inside, crappy light, and using a fast lens in which the DOF is very tiny... For the heck of it, if you crimp your shots (view them after you just taken them) and notice someone out of focus that you want in focus... drop your aperture down a stop or two, compensate for the shutter (if shooting in M) and you should be good. =)


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## Arkarch (Dec 19, 2011)

Here are my thoughts on getting a 5DMarkII now....

I am using a 7D primarily for Adventure/Sport/Event photography. The lightning fast AF is just demanded in this work - plus crop gets me that longer effective lens length. I cant see slow AF working. Yet in the past year I have gotten much more interested in landscapes - and my work there is almost always in Manual Focus. A full-frame body is next on my shopping list for this work and a 5DMII would definitely complement the 7D. Really, I dont think I even care about AF for landscape work.

So for those reasons, I really should just go for 5DMarkII now. But I can probably wait a bit - at least to the summer - to get a 5DMIII with likely better IQ and maybe higher MP for landscape. The working plan is to acquire FF-type lenses (get a 17-40 or 16-35 to replace the EF-S 10-22 for example) and then see where we are in March after the release of the "London" 1DX.

Without the 7D, I dunno, $1999 for a 5DMII + goodies (at least the CF Card) would be mighty tempting to jump on now.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 19, 2011)

Maui5150 said:


> I spent 7 months or so in the 7D vs 5DMKII camp and flipped back and forth more than a politician... Pretty much almost an acrobat or gymnast at that point.
> 
> I just pulled the shutter on the 5DMKII end of last month and am happy.
> 
> ...



9 AF points are fine the problem is 8 of them are nearly as usefull as bull tits


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## briansquibb (Dec 19, 2011)

wickidwombat said:


> 9 AF points are fine the problem is 8 of them are nearly as usefull as bull tits



I guess you haven't done much work with a 5DII then ..... in good light with a fast lens they are fine.


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

wickidwombat said:


> Maui5150 said:
> 
> 
> > I spent 7 months or so in the 7D vs 5DMKII camp and flipped back and forth more than a politician... Pretty much almost an acrobat or gymnast at that point.
> ...



Hahaha... Kinda leave framing your shots for post production unless your model is still enough to lock focus in the center and reposition and hope they didn't sway forward or back... After going from a 7d to a 5d2, I guess i kinda hoped for more from a camera $1000 more than a 7d, but then again i knew what i was sorta getting into when i bought so i cant be too bummed... 

Brian... the outter points are not cross type, so they can focus, but are typically not as critically focused... like focusing on the cheek and not the eye and such... It'll get you in the ballpark but with shallow dof, it could be enough to royally screw you up...


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## wickidwombat (Dec 19, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > 9 AF points are fine the problem is 8 of them are nearly as usefull as bull tits
> ...



sorry i should have specified in low light 

and i have only had the 5DII for a few months, after getting frustrated with the outer points i have just stopped using them. At least focus recompose with the center has more chance of nailing it IMO than the outer ones and in low light the outer ones just dont achieve lock period


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## briansquibb (Dec 19, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> Brian... the outter points are not cross type, so they can focus, but are typically not as critically focused... like focusing on the cheek and not the eye and such... It'll get you in the ballpark but with shallow dof, it could be enough to royally screw you up...



I dont use the 5DII for shallow DOF - typically nowadays for weddings and landscapes for anything much less than f/8 is rare.

I find it irritating to have something totally dismissed as rubbish when in fact they are just limited. There is a very big difference because when one is aware of the limitations they can be worked around. So to say that there is effectively only 1, central, AF point is clearly nonsense.

That central point by the way is the most effective on the market for AF in low light - another forgotten fact.


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Brian... the outter points are not cross type, so they can focus, but are typically not as critically focused... like focusing on the cheek and not the eye and such... It'll get you in the ballpark but with shallow dof, it could be enough to royally screw you up...
> ...



Just to clarify, you are calling me limited an not the camera? I understand the limitations of the 5d2... I know now not to use it in situations it can royally screw with the focus system... As neuro mentioned many of times, you can always fix noise, you cannot fix missed shots due to the AF... Also the central point, from my understanding, is best used on lenses 2.8 and faster... that does not mean you have to be in low light for it to be at it's best... I have been shooting professionally now for many years and have worked at my craft for many years so i would think twice about calling me limited...


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 19, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> Try focusing at f/8 or more which is what I do for weddings ....



Which certainly is one viable solution workaround for the weak performance of the 5DII's AF system in certain shooting situations. 



briansquibb said:


> I dont use the 5DII for shallow DOF - typically nowadays for weddings and landscapes for anything much less than f/8 is rare.



Thanks for the explanation - I now completely understand your 'defense' of the 5DII's AF system. As has been stated frequently, know the limitations of your equipment. At f/8, any errors in focusing are quite effectively masked by the deep DoF.

The problem is that most people expect a $2K+ camera to focus accurately even with a shallow DoF. Speaking for myself, I certainly didn't buy a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 135mm f/2L, or 85mm f/1.2L II to 'f/8 and be there.'


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## handsomerob (Dec 19, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> The problem is that most people expect a $2K+ camera to focus accurately even with a shallow DoF. Speaking for myself, I certainly didn't buy a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 135mm f/2L, or 85mm f/1.2L II to 'f/8 and be there.'



Copy that!


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## awinphoto (Dec 19, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> The problem is that most people expect a $2K+ camera to focus accurately even with a shallow DoF. Speaking for myself, I certainly didn't buy a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 135mm f/2L, or 85mm f/1.2L II to 'f/8 and be there.'



yep....


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## wickidwombat (Dec 20, 2011)

The center point is pretty good as far as accuracy goes. On the weekend, the new 85mm f1.4 sigma spent 90% of the time on my 5DII and using the focus recompose method i would say i nailed probably 85% of shots at f1.4 to f2.8 most of the utter failures were when they moved, walking etc. So I just used the 1D3 with 70-200 on for those shots.

I really hope the 5D3 gets an older 1D 45Point AF such as that of the fixed system from the 1D3 where you can choose to have 19 or even only 9 selectable, I actually prefer having less selectable points as its quicker to change points on the fly rather than cycling through millions, a 5 selectable option would be nice too ie 1 center and 4 at each intersection of the golden lines. In fact give me an AF that just has 5 2.8 cross type selectable points at those locations and it will be the perfect camera for shooting portraits.


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## briansquibb (Dec 20, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Try focusing at f/8 or more which is what I do for weddings ....
> ...



If you read this correctly I say that nowadays for weddings and landscapes I use f/8. The karting examples were all at f/2.8 which I dont consider paricularly shallow. I certainly did not suggest all pictures should be taken at f/8 or more - you have misread my comment

The people that shoot with shallow DOF are the portrait shooters. Portrait shooters are a significant population of 5DII owners - so I make a reasonable a guess the 5DII manages the AF for that OK else it wouldn't sell.

It is clear that you are biased against the 5DII as you have continued to take comments out of context to try and prove that the AF of the 5DII is very poor . You have been shown sufficient photos by me to prove that the 5DII can take good pictures. 

Let me say for one last time:

The AF on the 5DII is adequate, when locked on it is accurate. The centre AF point is very good, especially in low light (locking on when even the 1D4 fails)

I am not defending the 5DII AF - I am merely spelling out the truth and dispelling some of the untruths that are circulating - and backing it up with real life images to show what it can do.

You seem to be continually trying to find fault in an extreme situation - and presenting it as a weakness. This attack could be made on any camera out there - they all have weaknesses. It would be far more constructive to give a balanced view of the equipment, based on real, hands on experience with samples that would show the less experienced what they can achieve.

You are attacking one of the most sucesful cameras of our time - had it not occured to you that it is very good to get this reputation over the last 3 years - and part of the camera is the AF system which must be OK else it wouldn't continue to be in demand.

Why do people think the difference between this and the 7D is that the 7D has a wonderfull AF system and that a quick run of denoise makes the 7D a better camera? The big difference is that the 5DII is full frame and the 7D is crop and all the disadvantages that the crop brings to the IQ.

@awinphoto - no I wasn't calling you limited that was the camera I was refering to with the outside AF points. Not nice to start threatening when you have misread a comment

Seems everyone is misreading my comments tonight.


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## awinphoto (Dec 20, 2011)

Brians, sorry if I misread your comments however that's what it came across as. We aren't saying with denoise the 7d is better perse, but can be as useful in some situations as a tool compared to the 5d2 with a better feature set. To me as a camera tool goes, I appreciate what the 7d offers. Brilliant af, programmable buttons and multifunction button, electronic level, speed light control, 3 stop light meter +&- , Weathersealing, feel... Those alone makes the 7d a notch above. To me, as a tool, the 5d is a 50d with a full frame sensor and movie mode. Oh yeah, the 50d has all cross type sensors. The 5d2 sensor is quite nice, but that's the only real benefit over the 7d and that's not worth the extra premium in price for a lower feature set. You say you are defending the 5d2 where you think it needs defended and we are doing the same with the 7d you are dismissing.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 20, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> I am merely spelling out the truth...



"Truth" is a relative term. I prefer fact. The 5DII uses the AF sensor designed for the original 5D, which is similar in many respects to the system in the 20D that is still in use in the current incarnation of the xxxD line. Most of the AF systems to which it is being compared are newer, despite being used in cameras which cost much less. That's the progresion of technology, and while it would have been nice if Canon had redisgned the AF system for the 5DII instead of recycling old technology, they did not choose to do that, and despite that, the camera sell quite well. It's no accident that the majority of complaints about very popular camera are about the AF system, but now I'm straying into the realm of truth rather than fact.

Whichever. I'm going to agree to disagree with you, whether you agree to disagree or disagree to disagree with me. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle. The 5DII's AF system is not as bad as I make it out to be, nor as good as you make it out to be, but somethere in the middle.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 20, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> We aren't saying with denoise the 7d is better perse, but can be as useful in some situations as a tool compared to the 5d2 with a better feature set. To me as a camera tool goes, I appreciate what the 7d offers. Brilliant af, programmable buttons and multifunction button, electronic level, speed light control, 3 stop light meter +&- , Weathersealing, feel... Those alone makes the 7d a notch above. To me, as a tool, the 5d is a 50d with a full frame sensor and movie mode. Oh yeah, the 50d has all cross type sensors. The 5d2 sensor is quite nice, but that's the only real benefit over the 7d and that's not worth the extra premium in price for a lower feature set. You say you are defending the 5d2 where you think it needs defended and we are doing the same with the 7d you are dismissing.



+1. The 5DII delivers wonderful images, thanks to the excellent and FF sensor. The AF is it's weakest link, but where that can be successfully managed or worked around, it's a great camera.

Still...I'm definitely looking forward to the 1D X as better than the combination of 7D + 5DII.


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## briansquibb (Dec 20, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> You say you are defending the 5d2 where you think it needs defended and we are doing the same with the 7d you are dismissing.



I am not dismissing the 7D, just saying that the IQ is not up to that of the 5DII - and posted a 7D photo to show the point about the terrible (to my eyes) bokeh

Somewhere down the line here it has been lost that I have moved to a 1D4 so that I could get a better than 7D AF and fps at the same time as getting a similar IQ of the 5DII (better a low light in IMO). I have no vested personal interest in promoting the 7D (now both redundant) or the 5DII which is retired to essentially only landscapes and as a backup.

If anything I should be banging the drum about the 1D4 which is, to me, far better than the 5DII and the 7D.


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## awinphoto (Dec 20, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > You say you are defending the 5d2 where you think it needs defended and we are doing the same with the 7d you are dismissing.
> ...



The 1d4 is a great camera and we wish you well with your ventures. We are a forum to help each other become better photographers and use our tools better. The 1d series is the natural destination canon would like people to evolve to hence they make it really nice. I for one would rather discuss new techniques and tips to become better photographers rather than arguing and dissing cameras.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 20, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> I for one would rather discuss new techniques and tips to become better photographers rather than arguing and dissing cameras.



+1. And congrats on 500 helpful posts!


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## awinphoto (Dec 20, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I for one would rather discuss new techniques and tips to become better photographers rather than arguing and dissing cameras.
> ...



Why thank you. Just thinking its like 3 in the morning for Brian in the uk. Hope he has the day off tomorrow.


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## briansquibb (Dec 20, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> Why thank you. Just thinking its like 3 in the morning for Brian in the uk. Hope he has the day off tomorrow.



The good weather is not expected until mid morning when I am going on the hunt for the winter migrant birds


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## Richard8971 (Dec 20, 2011)

Don't look at the 5D2 from a "time-line" point of view. Look at it from a "what can it do" point of view. Even though the 5D2 came out in '09 doesn't mean it lacks in anyway from being a "state-of-the-art" DSLR! It is an awesome camera. Who knows what the 5D3 will bring. Yes, I am sure it may be "better" in terms of ISO performance and such, but it is for _you_? Truth is, ALL of Canon's DSLR's, from the Rebels to the 1Ds series, they are all great cameras and they are all capable of taking superior photographs. Simply choose which one is right for you!

D


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## Isaac (Dec 22, 2011)

Richard8971 said:


> Don't look at the 5D2 from a "time-line" point of view. Look at it from a "what can it do" point of view. Even though the 5D2 came out in '09 doesn't mean it lacks in anyway from being a "state-of-the-art" DSLR! It is an awesome camera. Who knows what the 5D3 will bring. Yes, I am sure it may be "better" in terms of ISO performance and such, but it is for _you_? Truth is, ALL of Canon's DSLR's, from the Rebels to the 1Ds series, they are all great cameras and they are all capable of taking superior photographs. Simply choose which one is right for you!
> 
> D



The 5D2 came out in 2008 not 2009. I don't agree with what you just wrote, yes you should look at what a camera can do however the bottom line is that the 5D2 is 2008 technology and the 5D3 will be 2012 technology - in these times that's massive.


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## briansquibb (Dec 22, 2011)

Isaac said:


> The 5D2 came out in 2008 not 2009. I don't agree with what you just wrote, yes you should look at what a camera can do however the bottom line is that the 5D2 is 2008 technology and the 5D3 will be 2012 technology - in these times that's massive.



A metal lathe is 1800s technology - does that make it obsolete?

I understand where you are coming from - but the 5D2 (and the 1D4 for that matter) are still awesome cameras regardless of the technology they use.

The only importance is the IQ of the images they produce.


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## Maui5150 (Dec 22, 2011)

There are really too camps... Those that preach the latest and greatest, and those who take a more balanced approach. 

For most people, money comes into.

Part of the equation is timing. 

Is the 5D MK III going to be better than the 5D MK II... Pretty safe bet.

Will the 5D MK III be MORE EXPENSIVE than the 5D MK II... Even safer bet.

Will the 5D MK III be $1000 more than the 5D MK II... I think that is pretty safe. 

I am expecting the the MK III to be somewhere around $3200.... Could be as low as $2900 as well as could be as high as $3500... but for anyone expecting $2500... dream on. Not in 2012, probably not in 2013, buts seems reasonable for 2014 perhaps.

The question then becomes not if you should go for the MK III, but when do you go or the MK III.

That camera right now is vaporware. It does not exist (in a consumer purchasable product) yet, the feature set is not known, as well as the supply is unknown.

I do lust after the MK III, but went with the MK II for now... because... well I can actually shoot with it. 

Will that cost me some money? Of course. Any product you use for a period of time devalues. 

I probably will not go for the MKIII IF IT IS AVAILABLE until this same time next year because of the sales... So even if it costs me $500 by the time I turn around and sell my MK II, that is about $10 a week. I actually expect the 5D MK II to hold its value more and really only lose about $300 in the end, so about $6/Week. 

Show me where you can rent a 5D MK II for $6/week. 

It is a HUGE step up of a body for me, and well as I am getting better results NOW rather than a year from now


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## K-amps (Dec 22, 2011)

Sometimes, Things like Magic lantern actually help the 5D2 retain it's value as well. With all the features it has, in some ways it could be more useful for some people than the 5d3 would be (given that Canon will cripple it to save the 1Dx).


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## handsomerob (Dec 23, 2011)

Maui5150 said:


> There are really too camps... Those that preach the latest and greatest, and those who take a more balanced approach.
> 
> For most people, money comes into.
> 
> ...



Good point. Buy now and start shooting


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## briansquibb (Dec 23, 2011)

handsomerob said:


> Good point. Buy now and start shooting



+1


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## CowGummy (Dec 23, 2011)

I too have been waiting for too long... and now feel like my 400D is limiting me too much, so will be pulling the trigger on a 5Dii in January. God only knows when the mkiii will be announced, let alone when available at a reasonable price point.


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## xROELOFx (Dec 23, 2011)

CowGummy said:


> I too have been waiting for too long... and now feel like my 400D is limiting me too much, so will be pulling the trigger on a 5Dii in January. God only knows when the mkiii will be announced, let alone when available at a reasonable price point.


i know what you mean.. i've bought my 5D2 about 1.5 months ago. as i figured, the 1DX will be available in march 2012, so the 5D3 will be available later plus is not even announced yet. who knows, perhaps it will be launched in october 2012? so getting a 5D2 now and enjoying it, seems like a really good idea to me


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## CowGummy (Dec 23, 2011)

xROELOFx said:


> CowGummy said:
> 
> 
> > I too have been waiting for too long... and now feel like my 400D is limiting me too much, so will be pulling the trigger on a 5Dii in January. God only knows when the mkiii will be announced, let alone when available at a reasonable price point.
> ...



Exactly! Plus at the current price point I'm too tempted not to upgrade... I don't even care if it still come down further in price. I want to be able to get on with my photography NOW. Out of interest, what (if any?) previous body were shooting with? Was a 1.6 crop body and if yes, how did you find the step up to FF?


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## CowGummy (Dec 23, 2011)

sorry... I appear to be missing a few words in my replies... that's what happens when you start too early on the mulled wine, hahaha. Merry Christmas to all! hohoho. ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 23, 2011)

CowGummy said:


> Out of interest, what (if any?) previous body were shooting with? Was a 1.6 crop body and if yes, how did you find the step up to FF?



It's like getting a whole new set of lenses, and learning what shallow DoF _really_ means. I went from a T1i/500D to a 7D, then added the 5DII. My 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II suddenly had a very useful range (I found it awkward on 1.6x), and the DoF on my 85L...wow. The only downside was the AF performance of the 5DII - it's not even close to the 7D (but coming from an xxxD body, it will be very similar for you). 

Enjoy!


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## CowGummy (Dec 23, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> CowGummy said:
> 
> 
> > Out of interest, what (if any?) previous body were shooting with? Was a 1.6 crop body and if yes, how did you find the step up to FF?
> ...



This is what I'm starting to get my head around. I was planning on purchasing 2 lenses along with the 5Dii in January. But as I've always kept an eye on a future FF upgrade all my current lenses are EF, so will fit the 5Dii. I think I need to get the body first and like you said: Actually get used to difference (in focal lengths) my lenses will have on the FF body.


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## briansquibb (Dec 24, 2011)

I added a 5D to the 50D then replaced the 5D with a 5DII and then the 50D with a 7D, so I never had an issue with the AF. The 7D are now replaced by the 1D4 as I couldn't stand the poor ISO and bokeh of the 7D


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## Harley (Dec 27, 2011)

Looks like the B&H sale on the 5D MkII just jumped up a hundred bucks to $2095. I would imagine that, plus the new info about the MkIII is going to slow down sales...


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## tron (Dec 28, 2011)

Right now the B&H price is 2175$ for body only!

Basic accessory kit now costs 2275$ (beware however that the offered spare battery is not genuine CANON and probably the battery grip too).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 28, 2011)

Adorama and B&H have $2099 sale prices, but you need a link or a code, just searching their site does not get you the best deal.

Right now, Adorama is ahead, since they includes a 50mm lens as well as case, spare battery, and memory card. You will need to use coupon code S1234567
to get the $2099 price. 

http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2E.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=cj_4137899


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## RonQ (Dec 28, 2011)

B&H is $2199 body only

Price went up today...


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 7, 2012)

With the launch of the Nikon D4, such improvement like high ISO capabilities and advance video technology. Does the current 5Dmk2 still sufficient in today market? I'm seriously looking into getting one 5dmk2.


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## chito (Jan 7, 2012)

The D800 just leaked on an official Nikon site... as a Jan-Feb release... the 5DIII must be close as well


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## Maui5150 (Jan 7, 2012)

BlueMixWhite said:


> With the launch of the Nikon D4, such improvement like high ISO capabilities and advance video technology. Does the current 5Dmk2 still sufficient in today market? I'm seriously looking into getting one 5dmk2.



When the Lamborghini Reventon was announced, did it make the BMW 7 series irrelevant?

How much does the Nikon D4 cost? $6000? You could also look at the 1Dx which in many ways seems to offer more than the D4, but that is $6800?

The 5D MK II is pretty much 1/3rd the cost of either of those. 

Also unlike the D4 or the 1Dx, you can actually SHOOT the 5D MK II today... D4 and 1Dx... not so much. 

Is the 5D MKII a little dated? Perhaps. Still takes excellent shots, you may have to work a little harder for them, but for the price of a D4, you can get a 5D MKII and a heck of a lot of nice L-Glass too


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 7, 2012)

chito said:


> The D800 just leaked on an official Nikon site... as a Jan-Feb release... the 5DIII must be close as well



That's the problem, it's so close yet so far with the 1DX coming.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 7, 2012)

i got sick of waiting and grabbed a couple of 5D2 a few months ago for me and my wife I paid a bit more than the current bargains for them but hey we are using them and shooting funnily enough i was waiting to see what the D800 specs were to decide whether to sell off all our canon gear and switch to only nikon or to sell the nikon gear and go canon
I chose canon for a variety of reasons f8 AF on the 1D was one hahahaha I also prefered the general interface and layout of the canons over nikon probably the main driver to change that and consolidate our gear and stop buying 2 of every type of lens. 

Overall the more i use the 5D2 the more i like it and the more i accept it's shortcomings, it really is a good camera for what it costs


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## miked588 (Jan 7, 2012)

This is the problem Im having as well, I've been trying to decide to pull the trigger and get the 5DMKII now but I feel like as soon as I buy it canon will "announce" the MKIII. I know the camera is "dated" as someone posted earlier and I know it doesn't exclude the fact that it's still an amazing camera. Not sure if I should buy now or keep saving. :-\


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## elflord (Jan 7, 2012)

miked588 said:


> This is the problem Im having as well, I've been trying to decide to pull the trigger and get the 5DMKII now but I feel like as soon as I buy it canon will "announce" the MKIII. I know the camera is "dated" as someone posted earlier and I know it doesn't exclude the fact that it's still an amazing camera. Not sure if I should buy now or keep saving. :-\



Prices are low on the 5D Mk II, probably because of speculation of an upcoming 5D Mark III.

Everyone gets excited about technology (and those who read rumors sites obviously have some interest in new developments and tech), but for all the buzz surrounding new releases, gains in tech are incremental. 

Take ISO (for example since it was mentioned here). On the ISO component of the DxO Mark test, the Canon 5D classic (not the Mark II) is the 9th best of the cameras in that database. It's within half a stop of the 5D Mark II, and within 1.25 stops of the top ranked camera, the nikon D3S. The 8 cameras in front of it are all full frame -- no APS-C.

Even the old 5D classic not only is still an excellent performer, it has the full frame advantages -- as neuro points out, it's like an instant upgrade for all your lenses. After all, why drop a bundle on f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms and then mount them on a body that makes them f/2.2 and f/4.5 ?

So the calculation at least for me was, from the crop to full frame was a substantial upgrade, but the reality is that from one version of a camera to another, the newer one will have some nice new features but the bump in performance will be incremental (even if the reviewers rave as if it were revolutionary, a closer examination will typically reveal otherwise)


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## Richard8971 (Jan 13, 2012)

elflord said:


> Prices are low on the 5D Mk II, probably because of speculation of an upcoming 5D Mark III.



Mmmm, perhaps. Prices are low right now for the 7D as well. I paid $1550.00 for mine about 2-3 months ago and now I can get it for almost 200 bucks less than that! (At B&H) I would imagine it is just the normal cost "droppage" of technology that has been around for a bit. Kind of like how cars get cheaper as the selling year comes to a close. Nothing wrong with the car, they just know that they need to make room for future models. Not the same thing, of course, but in principle it is. The 5D2 and 7D are the oldest cameras in the EOS lineup at this time. (3.5 years for the 5D2 and 2.5 for the 7D)

D


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## jasonsim (Jan 13, 2012)

Sorry to burst everyones hopes, but I'm doubtful Canon will announce a 5d III until Oct. at Photokina. And even then...it won't be available until well into 2013. It will cost a hella lot more than the 1999.99 I paid for my 5D II last month with free 16GB Extreme III CF card and Lowepro bag. 

Canon announced the Pixma Pro 1 back in Oct. 2011. They said they were on the ship heading for our shores...BS. There is still no sign on when they will be available. Same for the new 300mm, 400mm, 500mm and 600. 

If you all can wait until 2013 for a 5d III, you might as well wait for the 5d IV in 2016. It will have dual digic VI processors ISO 819,200 and will have 10FPS and 105 zone metering.


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## Richard8971 (Jan 13, 2012)

jasonsim said:


> Sorry to burst everyones hopes, but I'm doubtful Canon will announce a 5d III until Oct. at Photokina. And even then...it won't be available until well into 2013. It will cost a hella lot more than the 1999.99 I paid for my 5D II last month with free 16GB Extreme III CF card and Lowepro bag.
> 
> Canon announced the Pixma Pro 1 back in Oct. 2011. They said they were on the ship heading for our shores...BS. There is still no sign on when they will be available. Same for the new 300mm, 400mm, 500mm and 600.
> 
> If you all can wait until 2013 for a 5d III, you might as well wait for the 5d IV in 2016. It will have dual digic VI processors ISO 819,200 and will have 10FPS and 105 zone metering.



Well said. I have always said to buy NOW what you can afford and learn it well and equip it with the best lenses you can. The 5D3 and 7D2 are great to dream about, but unless you can go buy one, they might as well be made of gold and given away for free!

D


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## crjiro (Jan 13, 2012)

i'm glad i pulled the trigger as well at under $2K. The cam is amazing (from 550D). The AF is not an issue for me but had to get used to the adjustment. I don't really need the extra mps and i'm very satisfied with the ISO performance (stills). I use GH2 for most video and like to use the MkII for people/portrait video shots.


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