# Is the Canon EOS RP the next camera up?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 26, 2019)

> *Update:* Canon also uses “EG” for camera bags.
> Nokishita has found some information about a new Canon accessory called the “EG-E1”. this item appears to come in 3 different colors. Nokishita wonders if this is a new battery grip? This doesn’t seem likely, as current “EG” models from Canon are for focusing screens like the “EG-S”. The current Canon EOS R battery grip is called the BG-E22.
> Also mentioned is a new camera, the Canon EOS RP. It’s unsure if this is what Canon’s next EOS R camera is going to be called, or if it’s just an internal name.
> All signs point to the next EOS R series camera to slot below the EOS R in pricing.
> I’d expect to see the EOS R lineup addressed with a couple of...



Continue reading...


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## Quarkcharmed (Jan 26, 2019)

Exciting news! Interesting, what signs exactly point to a sub- EOS R camera? Apart from the previous rumours.


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## JonSnow (Jan 26, 2019)

> This doesn’t seem likely, as current “EG” models from Canon are for focusing screens like the “EG-S”.



focusing screen in 3 colors?


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## LetsStewIt (Jan 26, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> This doesn’t seem likely, as current “EG” models from Canon are for focusing screens like the “EG-S”.



Meh, Probably a camera bag. 

I Just ordered the RF 28-70 f/2, so I wouldn't mind if they came out with a cheaper R and cheaper RFblenses that I wouldn't care for. Give me some time to set money aside for the "pro" R body that's rumored.


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## vjlex (Jan 26, 2019)

EOS-RP. 'P' as in 'Pro'? or 'P' as in 'Plastic'?


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## privatebydesign (Jan 26, 2019)

Smart power zoom optical viewfinder to go on the hotshoe, has electronic contacts so all current viewfinder info, and more, can be overlaid. Comes in three colors to match the $1,499 price of the 'lower end' body. Costs $1499...


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## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2019)

I wonder what features can they drop. The frame rate is pretty low already, the body is not that special either - what is that cheap rebel-like directional pad?
They probably put a 6D sensor and lower quality EVF.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2019)

shunsai said:


> EOS-RP. 'P' as in 'Pro'? or 'P' as in 'Plastic'?



Grip in three color suggests plastic.


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## JonSnow (Jan 26, 2019)

EG is used for camera bags too.

100 EG.... Camera bag
10 EG.... Camera bag.
1EG... Camera bag.


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## Treyarnon (Jan 26, 2019)

Canon is *******.
Literally
RIP


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## Treyarnon (Jan 26, 2019)

> I wonder what features can they drop. The frame rate is pretty low already, the body is not that special either - what is that cheap rebel-like directional pad?
> They probably put a 6D sensor and lower quality EVF.



My guess will be:
plastic body.
Simplify the controls (no touchbar - possibly omit the rear dial)
Maybe remove the articulating screen (Canon might choose to keep this if it helps differentiate it from Sony's and Nikon's equivalent cameras) 
Lower resolution EVF
Maybe drop the top LCD
Use an existing sensor - either from the 6D2 or 5D4/R, whichever is cheepest to produce. I can see Canon using the same sensor as the R here unless the cost to manufacture is prohibitive at this price point.


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## Viggo (Jan 26, 2019)

Nokishita seems to think it’s a “sport” camera?


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## Dreamwalker Photography (Jan 26, 2019)

Where is the 1D X equivalent? Pros are never going to give up the 1D X bodies for the R body unless and until there is a pro body in the lineup. Canon might be ******* indeed.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 26, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Nokishita seems to think it’s a “sport” camera?



I have a hard time seeing that happen without native lenses to support "sports". They need to move volumes of cameras to get the system going, not niche market products.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 26, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> Where is the 1D X equivalent? Pros are never going to give up the 1D X bodies for the R body unless and until there is a pro body in the lineup. Canon might be ******* indeed.



The revenue share of a "pro" body like the EOS-1D X Mark II vs something like the EOS 6D Mark II is night and day. One retailer told me that they sold the EOS 6D at a rate of 1000 to 1 vs the EOS-1D X/EOS-1D X Mark II (it could be even higher globally). I also don't see pros dumping their EOS-1D X bodies and needing to adapt EF lenses. More RF mount lenses have to come first.


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## Pape (Jan 26, 2019)

engine grip like old motor drive battery grips for filmcameras
you get camera as 1500E but brains come on grip 1000e more 
it would be actually handy when you dont need sport speed you can leave grip home and shoot just low fps with light weight camera
so P could mean Power or perfomance or Party
or it could be P like phone,maybe they got enough smart phones stealing their sales and added phone to R
Eg could be entry grip too ,external turbo unit meaned for entry level camera


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 26, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I wonder what features can they drop. The frame rate is pretty low already, the body is not that special either - what is that cheap rebel-like directional pad?
> They probably put a 6D sensor and lower quality EVF.



They can drop some minor things easily in the firmware, eliminate the metal body, top LCD, and put in a LP-17 battery. The cost to make the camera won't be a lot less, but they want to sell a lot of cameras and a low price does that. They could cut the price of the R, but thats not the way pricing levels used throughout the world for virtually every product work. They want to target buyers who are not pros or enthusiasts, but want to take excellent quality images. That audience will not use the extra features, they leave the camera on automatic. 

Canon has a very long and very good track record of pricing and configuring cameras for specific markets. High production rates are the key to cutting cost, that has a really big impact on costs to produce, advertise, distribute and service since costs for all those things are spread over a much larger quantity of cameras.


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## brad-man (Jan 26, 2019)

Since processing speed seems to be Canon's current limitation, the new camera could not possibly be a FF "sports" camera unless they have made a quantum leap forward in Digic tech. An APS-C camera however...


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## Etienne (Jan 26, 2019)

No EVF, only the rear LCD screen. Just like the M5 / M6 pair.
Optional separate top EVF


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## MintChocs (Jan 26, 2019)

Less specs than the R, r they having a laugh! It’s probably designed to sell in the 3rd world. They should name it RIP (rest in peace) instead of RP.


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## knight427 (Jan 26, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I wonder what features can they drop. The frame rate is pretty low already, the body is not that special either - what is that cheap rebel-like directional pad?
> They probably put a 6D sensor and lower quality EVF.



I agree with your perspective that the R doesn't have a lot of fat to trim (relative to the competition) to make this lean offering. I don't see how they can NOT reuse the 6d2 sensor unless they are going to buy someone else's sensor. But that seems highly unlikely as this is the camera where Canon is going to reap in the majority of their FF dollars, and margin would suffer if they don't use their own sensor. 

If someone had an afternoon to burn, they could do a detailed comparisin of a 5d4 to a 6d2 and probably predict with good accuracy which features from the R will be gimped to make the RP. Fewer focus points and fewer AF modes would be an obvoius place to start.


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## degos (Jan 26, 2019)

shunsai said:


> EOS-RP. 'P' as in 'Pro'? or 'P' as in 'Plastic'?



P for 'Poverty Model'. I wish...


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 26, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Grip in three color suggests plastic.


Why?


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## Pape (Jan 26, 2019)

pink for girls, blue for boys and rainbow coloured for neuters?


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## Quackator (Jan 26, 2019)

Canon Europe just polled the feedback of CPS platinum members. 
They are looking for feedback, and it was a pretty detailed questionnaire
that for the first time in many years didn't make the impression to be totally
off topic at all.

That said, I am not too anxious about new RF lenses, as I see the
mount adapter with filter slot to be one of the most welcome asset
of the last few years. I'd lose that option with all RF glass.


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## shutterfreek (Jan 26, 2019)

I have to stick up for Canon and R. I FREEKING LOVE IT!!! Been shooting for over 15 years. All Canon. Currently shoot with 2 - 1DX markII's, 1 5DmarkIV, and 1 R. MY ALL TIME FAVORITE RUN AND GUN SET UP is having a 1DX markII + 16-35MM LIII on a Ronin S, and then the R strapped on my Holdfast money maker with a 24-105mmLII. Handheld with the R in unbelievable! The image stabilization and autofocus is SUPERB! I don't mind the crop at all! The 4K footage is gorgeous. The sensor is INCREDIBLE reliable with auto whitebalance and just color in general! I've fallen in love with using the LCD screen to move the focus point, so much that I don't miss the joystick at all on that camera. If the RP is a downgrade from the R, I won't be purchasing. But the second Canon releases a full frame mirrorless with 120fps video I will probably let go of my 1DX's. This video was shot with a go pro 7 on a gorilla pod and the R handheld.


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## dak723 (Jan 26, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> Where is the 1D X equivalent? Pros are never going to give up the 1D X bodies for the R body unless and until there is a pro body in the lineup. Canon might be ******* indeed.



I see you are new here. Here's how it works. It would be pretty much impossible for a camera company to produce 3 or 4 brand new cameras simultaneously. So, over the next year or two, they will have at least 3 or 4 R versions.

I bet you knew that.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 26, 2019)

MintChocs said:


> Less specs than the R, r they having a laugh! It’s probably designed to sell in the 3rd world. They should name it RIP (rest in peace) instead of RP.


Yes, I’m sure you’re right because of course in the developed world cameras costing more than $2000 wildly outsell less expensive models. I think we will have a laugh at you, and Canon will laugh all the way to the bank.


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## knight427 (Jan 26, 2019)

Anyone want to make a price pool for the RP? I know $1,499 is the current group think price, but I’m guessing it will be $1799. Within a month of first ship, there will be a rebate on it for $100 off. Within 3 months of first ship, CPW street price with warranty will be $1,499.

Canon plays pricing games and within a year the msrp is just a fantasy. Just look at the 6D (current msrp is $1,699) and 6D2 (current msrp is $1,799). Both numbers are irrelevant at this point, even the Canon store is actually selling the 6D2 at $1,299. Anyway, my point is that Canon knows $1,499 is the price this camera is going to actually sell at shortly after launch, so they are going to charge $1,799 for those who want it nearly on day one before the pricing games begin.


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 26, 2019)

shutterfreek said:


> I have to stick up for Canon and R. I FREEKING LOVE IT!!! Been shooting for over 15 years. All Canon. Currently shoot with 2 - 1DX markII's, 1 5DmarkIV, and 1 R. MY ALL TIME FAVORITE RUN AND GUN SET UP is having a 1DX markII + 16-35MM LIII on a Ronin S, and then the R strapped on my Holdfast money maker with a 24-105mmLII. Handheld with the R in unbelievable! The image stabilization and autofocus is SUPERB! I don't mind the crop at all! The 4K footage is gorgeous. The sensor is INCREDIBLE reliable with auto whitebalance and just color in general! I've fallen in love with using the LCD screen to move the focus point, so much that I don't miss the joystick at all on that camera. If the RP is a downgrade from the R, I won't be purchasing. But the second Canon releases a full frame mirrorless with 120fps video I will probably let go of my 1DX's. This video was shot with a go pro 7 on a gorilla pod and the R handheld.



Nice video. I really like go pro 7 for vacation and family footage. The file are very stabilize.

As for the lower tier FF mirrorless, I think it's pretty much confirm the previous interview to "follow the money". Lower price camera will generate alot of sales but it won't the camera most pro enthuasist and pro are looking for.

I also have to consider what kind of pro Canon FF mirroless they will release. It seems from previous release, it's most likely to have features we all expect (dual card slot, IBIS, decent 4K) but it won't anything revolutionary and most likely expensive compare to competitions. I don't think I can wait for Canon to take professional FF segment seriously anymore.


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## Mikehit (Jan 26, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> As for the lower tier FF mirrorless, I think it's pretty much confirm the previous interview to "follow the money".



But what does 'follow the monehy' actually mean? I agree with the logic that this means a lower end model first, but the higher ends models have a higher profit margin which is why nearly all announcements on MFTs are now at the $1,500 - $2,000 bracket with lenses to match (admittedly they have already built a stable of good models at the lower end) and reflect Sony's targeted markets. 
Knowing how Canon is very thorough about its market research then it depends what this research tells them. If there is more expectation at the 
If research shows that there is a higher level of expectation at the $3,000 level (5DSR) then surely that will be a potentially better return? Maybe expectation is lower at the $1,200- $1,500 level and given the much-lauded size benefits of mirrorless, it may also be impacted by the M series?


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## Hornet (Jan 26, 2019)

If true, this means the EOS R, with an obsolete sensor, will be follow up with an even less capable camera with another recycled sensor. Why produce such great new lenses and then release cameras like these? Canon must have something much more exciting in development.


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## Viggo (Jan 26, 2019)

Hornet said:


> If true, this means the EOS R, with an obsolete sensor, will be follow up with an even less capable camera with another recycled sensor. Why produce such great new lenses and then release cameras like these? Canon must have something much more exciting in development.


Why?

Because they sell for a better profit margin, by far, and a lot more units.


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## gzroxas (Jan 26, 2019)

Would it be possible that the new Camera although being less expensive might have some more advanced features or controls (and not a revamped 6D II sensor please)? 2000usd would be okay as well
The R might have been the “I absolutely want Mirrorless Canon” choice, while this could be a more well thought out product?
I hope so at least ahah


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## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> Where is the 1D X equivalent? Pros are never going to give up the 1D X bodies for the R body unless and until there is a pro body in the lineup. Canon might be ******* indeed.


Canon needs 10+ FPS with close to perfect AF and at least double the current EOS-R battery life before can even think about an 1DX-like mirrorless. 
At the moment they can't even manage 8 FPS with autofocus. And sport photographers are not going to mess with adapters when they have 1DX and native lenses. So i would say a sports camera is at least 2-3 years away.


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## Pape (Jan 26, 2019)

yep R was just quickly putted together to answer nikon opening to mirrorless. Or they would lost peoples who long waited canon mirrorless to nikon.
maybe it was half finished R5 they quicky adjusted to saleable .
they make better soon and R vanishes from market


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## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> Where is the 1D X equivalent? Pros are never going to give up the 1D X bodies for the R body unless and until there is a pro body in the lineup. Canon might be ******* indeed.



They could already make a PRO body, like an 5DS/R replacement. That does not need high FPS or super autofocus, altough the Sony A7R can already do 10 FPS at 42MP.


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## ykn123 (Jan 26, 2019)

MintChocs said:


> Less specs than the R, r they having a laugh! It’s probably designed to sell in the 3rd world. They should name it RIP (rest in peace) instead of RP.


Your comment, especially the part with 3rd world . tells me a lot - about you.


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## knight427 (Jan 26, 2019)

gzroxas said:


> Would it be possible that the new Camera although being less expensive might have some more advanced features or controls (and not a revamped 6D II sensor please)? 2000usd would be okay as well
> The R might have been the “I absolutely want Mirrorless Canon” choice, while this could be a more well thought out product?
> I hope so at least ahah



I've pondered that too. The idea that the R would be an oddball camera that didn't fit into the lineup long term. But I feel like they waited so long to enter the FF milc market, it seems unlikely that the R was that much of a knee-jerk product. Prepare yourself for the 6d2 sensor reuse too, no way around that one (I'd love be wrong about that though).


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## JonSnow (Jan 26, 2019)

RP "Revolution Postponed"


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## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> Why?



Someone above asked if P stands for Pro or plastic. Never before Canon had a pro camera in other color than black. So a multicolor grip would suggest a "plastic" = cheap camera. Not plastic as material.


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 26, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> But what does 'follow the monehy' actually mean? I agree with the logic that this means a lower end model first, but the higher ends models have a higher profit margin which is why nearly all announcements on MFTs are now at the $1,500 - $2,000 bracket with lenses to match (admittedly they have already built a stable of good models at the lower end) and reflect Sony's targeted markets.
> Knowing how Canon is very thorough about its market research then it depends what this research tells them. If there is more expectation at the
> If research shows that there is a higher level of expectation at the $3,000 level (5DSR) then surely that will be a potentially better return? Maybe expectation is lower at the $1,200- $1,500 level and given the much-lauded size benefits of mirrorless, it may also be impacted by the M series?



The high end model may or may not have a higher margin, but probably less sale volume than entry model. They have to pour A LOT of R&D money into higher end model EOS R Pro (IBIS, better processor for high FPS and eyeAF tracking, better weather sealing, 4K, heat management, etc) where as it's much cheaper to make a lower tier EOS R (cutting cost).

Lower entry model doesn't require much R&D and may have higher margin. They also move alot of volume vs higher end model. I'm speculating that's where the money is. That probably make the most business sense but not for hard core enthusiasts or professionals.

I think it's time for me to consider switching camp, and revisit Canon in 2-3 years if they have a viable professional product. The rumor Panasonic S1 for $2000 has pique my interest.
I doubt Canon will ever provide something like this for this price. I have already converted a lot of my EF L lens to Sigma Art lens so the L lens appeal isn't enough to draw me to stay with Canon as it once was when Canon and Nikon were the only two players in the game.

If you think about it, it's pretty much a loss leader like the Sony A7III just so Panasonic can get a share of the market. With Panasonic and Sigma making lens, I'm confident they will be able to provide quality and affordable lens. I hope Tamron join the L-mount Alliance too.

*Panasonic S1*
24MP
L-mount
4k60p
Dual IS (in body stabilization and in lens stabilization)
Contrast AF (DFD technology)
Industry highest resolution EVF (Rumor: Could be 5.6 milion dot)
Deep learning AI
1 XQD and 1 SD slot
3-axis tiltable LCD
100% weather sealing
High Resolution mode (eight consecutive images are captured while shifting the sensor)
HLG Photo
Ships in March
Rumor: Price around $2,000
L-rumors.com


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 26, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Not plastic as material.



Ah


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## preppyak (Jan 26, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Lower entry model doesn't require much R&D and may have higher margin. They also move alot of volume vs higher end model. I'm speculating that's where the money is. That probably make the most business sense but not for hard core enthusiasts or professionals.


It also pulls people into your ecosystem. Even if the margin on the camera is low, the margin on lenses, batteries, adapters, etc is much higher. And once people pick a side, they'll tend to stay there. It's why Sigma has been so smart...make all your lenses adaptable and people will buy into Sigma lenses and care less about what body they ultimately have.



> I think it's time for me to consider switching camp, and revisit Canon in 2-3 years if they have a viable professional product. The rumor Panasonic S1 for $2000 has pique my interest.


And Im with you on this. Hoping the S1 delivers, and the Sony A7 series has evolved nicely too. After the 6dII flopped, and with no solid rumors of a 90D coming, I dont see my pathway forward with Canon as someone who needs solid video for professional work and a versatile photo camera for my personal work. My 80D/GH4 combo needs an update...and for travel it'd be nice if it was 80D/90D/6D sharing batteries in some form. But right now it's looking far more like I'm moving all Sony or all Panasonic within the year.


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## DVaNu (Jan 26, 2019)

Hornet said:


> If true, this means the EOS R, with an obsolete sensor, will be follow up with an even less capable camera with another recycled sensor. Why produce such great new lenses and then release cameras like these? Canon must have something much more exciting in development.


I"m certain that there is something much more exciting in development and I totally agree that it doesn't make any sense to release the RF letnses if it were not for some higher-end camera model planned along the line. Personally I don't really see the point in releasing a lower specs R camera but let's say for now that the whole "follow the money"-aspect makes sense from a business point of view. Maybe we're all getting it wrong and all future planned R models, shouldn't be approached form a budget point of view but more towards functionality and "purpose" of the cameras. One more for action and sports, another one more for portrait and studio photography, and yet another one more for something else.....but that's just a wild speculation. We'll find out soon enough I suppose


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## ajm (Jan 26, 2019)

Probably will leave out 120fps at 720p on a lesser model. Other features left out like peaking, less auto-focus functions, display shutting off when using HDMI. (stays on now, like when using an external Atomos recorder).


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 26, 2019)

preppyak said:


> It also pulls people into your ecosystem. Even if the margin on the camera is low, the margin on lenses, batteries, adapters, etc is much higher. And once people pick a side, they'll tend to stay there. It's why Sigma has been so smart...make all your lenses adaptable and people will buy into Sigma lenses and care less about what body they ultimately have.
> 
> And Im with you on this. Hoping the S1 delivers, and the Sony A7 series has evolved nicely too. After the 6dII flopped, and with no solid rumors of a 90D coming, I dont see my pathway forward with Canon as someone who needs solid video for professional work and a versatile photo camera for my personal work. My 80D/GH4 combo needs an update...and for travel it'd be nice if it was 80D/90D/6D sharing batteries in some form. But right now it's looking far more like I'm moving all Sony or all Panasonic within the year.



I would say I'm a die hard Canon user. I hold out for Canon 6D II, 5D IV, and EOS R, but they all disappoint me. I expect EOS R Pro to be similar expectation. Good enough but nothing that will wow me and will expensive relative to the competition.

I bought 5D IV and EOS R. I return EOS R. It's a fine camera, but still disappointing to me just like 6D II, 5D IV.

I knew 2019 will be exciting year for mirrorless with Panasonic/Leica/Sigma vs Sony vs Canon vs Nikon. It seems like my hunch is correct. If the rumor price of Panasonic S1 is $2000, I will be able to get 10% off through EDU channel and get it for $1800. It's a no brainer vs constantly waiting for Canon to get release a FF mirorless with professional features even I have the money to pay for it. I bought Sigma EF lens knowing I will ultimately be able to use on Sony, Canon or Panasonic camera. Sigma 105 1.4 Art work great on Sony system and EOS R.

Regarding the batteries: Third party batteries like Wasabi is good enough for my needs. That's what I used for EOS R and Canon 5D IV. Panasonic S1 will allow USB charging so I just need to buy a couple.

The only thing I'm not a fan Panasonic S1 is the QXD. It's expensive since I prefer using dual 256GB memory card. I have 6 256GB SD card, 10 128GB. I shoot weddings/portraits

If you shoot video, wouldn't the video centric Panasonic be your choice too? 4K 60P and probably 10 bit external/internal. I'm sure they will offer 120 1080p too and maybe raw option.

Sony A7SIII must blow Pansonic out the water for me to consider it with price and feature to make me deal with its ergonomic issue. 16 bit sensor and 5.6 million dot EVF would do it.


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## 6degrees (Jan 26, 2019)

JonSnow said:


> RP "Revolution Postponed"



Sounds like Canon is slowing down. What a waste for RF50F1.2 and RF2870F2.


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 26, 2019)

6degrees said:


> Sounds like Canon is slowing down. What a waste for RF50F1.2 and RF2870F2.



It's a halo product designed to dangle the carrot for professionals to buy into the system with the hope of getting pro EOS R. 

28-70 F2 would be awesome lens to add to my collection but at $3000, it's too expensive for me.


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## criscokkat (Jan 26, 2019)

There is still another R series camera coming this year I thought. Why is everyone freaking out? The low end is where the money for canon is, and pros will more than likely get their high megapixel camera with new sensor then.


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## peters (Jan 26, 2019)

My guess: they will release a cheap EOS R around may at around 1500$. Its hard to imagine what they could do to make the EOS R even worse, but my guess will be: lower resolution, even slower, less AF features and 4k features will be absolutely not better. Maybe remove the top display and the touch bar to have some weird disadvantegs over the EOS R. Maybe add 3 colors (red and white) to the body to give it an even more consumer feel. 

At the end of 2019 they may come around with 4 additional lenses and finaly a professional EOS R. If we are lucky they will include a 30mp+ sensor, dual cards and a 4k mode with "only" 1,3x crop factor and still a crippled codec and no ibis. By this time Sony may have released their a7r iv with 4k raw or even 6k and 50mp or something....


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## criscokkat (Jan 26, 2019)

I hadn’t seen anybody mention this: what if canon RP was for an actual historic camera? https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/film39.html


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## Ozarker (Jan 26, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> Where is the 1D X equivalent? Pros are never going to give up the 1D X bodies for the R body unless and until there is a pro body in the lineup. Canon might be ******* indeed.


Pfttt. Who says pros are in a rush for it right now? What is ******* are the "Canon is *******" comments.


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## slclick (Jan 26, 2019)

If you have been paying attention, the lower than current R body to come next has been widely known as to be the next release. Y'all are acting like the next R body will have a T2i sensor. I'm not sure but getting on a forum and spewing how Canon is ******* (what's the acronym again?) while they continue to $$$$$ year after year seems to be a mental masturbation conundrum for you.


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## Ozarker (Jan 26, 2019)

slclick said:


> If you have been paying attention, the lower than current R body to come next has been widely known as to be the next release. Y'all are acting like the next R body will have a T2i sensor. I'm not sure but getting on a forum and spewing how Canon is ******* (what's the acronym again?) while they continue to $$$$$ year after year seems to be a mental masturbation conundrum for you.


Amazing, isn't it? They come out of the woodwork every time. I especially enjoy the ones who say things like, "Canon quickly threw this together to answer xyz company" as though they got up last week, saw XYZ company's upcoming release spec sheet, and said, "Oh crap! Get Billy Bob over there in the corner to throw something together for next month. They've got air between their ears. Can't say what I really think. I'd get banned. My suspicions are that these folks won't ever purchase what they say they wish for when it is released anyway. Why? Because, according to them, XYZ company is already selling what they say they want and they aren't buying it either.


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## Mikehit (Jan 26, 2019)

peters said:


> Its hard to imagine what they could do to make the EOS R even worse,


Have you used the EOS-R?


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## Ozarker (Jan 26, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> Have you used the EOS-R?


Of course he hasn't. He's never even seen one in a store, held one, and wouldn't know the difference anyway.


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## slclick (Jan 26, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Amazing, isn't it? They come out of the woodwork every time. I especially enjoy the ones who say things like, "Canon quickly threw this together to answer xyz company" as though they got up last week, saw XYZ company's upcoming release spec sheet, and said, "Oh crap! Get Billy Bob over there in the corner to throw something together for next month. They've got air between their ears. Can't say what I really think. I'd get banned. My suspicions are that these folks won't ever purchase what they say they wish for when it is released anyway. Why? Because, according to them, XYZ company is already selling what they say they want and they aren't buying it either.


I don't expect everyone to have experience in tech production and to understand production timelines but still, these things are not knee jerk reactions and if I had a nickel for every time someone said how Canon should react to a release by Nikon or Sony.....


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## Jethro (Jan 26, 2019)

to me the more interesting question is what this says about native RF lens development and release. If this is going to be a more consumer (ie sub-EOS R) release, then there will have to be more affordable non-L lenses released at the same time. Certainly 1 or 2 kit zooms (because there may be kits with 2 lenses), but also some more non-L primes. Probably an affordable 50mm, and also a wide angle. I'm personally hoping for a f2.8 100mm (or similar) macro - which is one lens an upgrading 'enthusiast' buyer would look for on heading up to a cheaper FF for the first time. There were patents unearthed recently for what looked like non-L RF lenses, so maybe there is a pattern emerging?


----------



## Chuckmet (Jan 26, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Nokishita seems to think it’s a “sport” camera?



I would think a Sport camera would cost more not less.


----------



## slclick (Jan 26, 2019)

Jethro said:


> to me the more interesting question is what this says about native RF lens development and release. If this is going to be a more consumer (ie sub-EOS R) release, then there will have to be more affordable non-L lenses released at the same time. Certainly 1 or 2 kit zooms (because there may be kits with 2 lenses), but also some more non-L primes. Probably an affordable 50mm, and also a wide angle. I'm personally hoping for a f2.8 100mm (or similar) macro - which is one lens an upgrading 'enthusiast' buyer would look for on heading up to a cheaper FF for the first time. There were patents unearthed recently for what looked like non-L RF lenses, so maybe there is a pattern emerging?



An affordable 50? Yes, buy all means, let's bring Mr Sanford into this conversation.


----------



## Jethro (Jan 26, 2019)

slclick said:


> An affordable 50? Yes, buy all means, let's bring Mr Sanford into this conversation.


I'd be happy with a f1.8 by the way ...


----------



## Adelino (Jan 27, 2019)

shutterfreek said:


> I have to stick up for Canon and R. I FREEKING LOVE IT!!! Been shooting for over 15 years. All Canon. Currently shoot with 2 - 1DX markII's, 1 5DmarkIV, and 1 R. MY ALL TIME FAVORITE RUN AND GUN SET UP is having a 1DX markII + 16-35MM LIII on a Ronin S, and then the R strapped on my Holdfast money maker with a 24-105mmLII. Handheld with the R in unbelievable! The image stabilization and autofocus is SUPERB! I don't mind the crop at all! The 4K footage is gorgeous. The sensor is INCREDIBLE reliable with auto whitebalance and just color in general! I've fallen in love with using the LCD screen to move the focus point, so much that I don't miss the joystick at all on that camera. If the RP is a downgrade from the R, I won't be purchasing. But the second Canon releases a full frame mirrorless with 120fps video I will probably let go of my 1DX's. This video was shot with a go pro 7 on a gorilla pod and the R handheld.


Are you from NM or CO?


----------



## Adelino (Jan 27, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Canon needs 10+ FPS with close to perfect AF and at least double the current EOS-R battery life before can even think about an 1DX-like mirrorless.
> At the moment they can't even manage 8 FPS with autofocus. And sport photographers are not going to mess with adapters when they have 1DX and native lenses. So i would say a sports camera is at least 2-3 years away.


The sports camera will happen in a year or maybe 15 months , in time for the Tokyo Olympics.


----------



## Adelino (Jan 27, 2019)

gzroxas said:


> Would it be possible that the new Camera although being less expensive might have some more advanced features or controls (and not a revamped 6D II sensor please)? 2000usd would be okay as well
> The R might have been the “I absolutely want Mirrorless Canon” choice, while this could be a more well thought out product?
> I hope so at least ahah


The R is very well thought out, not every camera is designed exactly for you.


----------



## Adelino (Jan 27, 2019)

Hornet said:


> If true, this means the EOS R, with an obsolete sensor, will be follow up with an even less capable camera with another recycled sensor. Why produce such great new lenses and then release cameras like these? Canon must have something much more exciting in development.


The 5DIV sensor, obsolete, ha your sense of humor or your trolling is obsolete. Maybe you just d know what words mean.


----------



## Adelino (Jan 27, 2019)

knight427 said:


> Anyone want to make a price pool for the RP? I know $1,499 is the current group think price, but I’m guessing it will be $1799. Within a month of first ship, there will be a rebate on it for $100 off. Within 3 months of first ship, CPW street price with warranty will be $1,499.
> 
> Canon plays pricing games and within a year the msrp is just a fantasy. Just look at the 6D (current msrp is $1,699) and 6D2 (current msrp is $1,799). Both numbers are irrelevant at this point, even the Canon store is actually selling the 6D2 at $1,299. Anyway, my point is that Canon knows $1,499 is the price this camera is going to actually sell at shortly after launch, so they are going to charge $1,799 for those who want it nearly on day one before the pricing games begin.


They need more of a gap to the R which will also drop in price. I say 1499 at launch with holiday deals in November/December at 1299, maybe even 1199 for the best price of the year/ Black Friday deal.


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## Ozarker (Jan 27, 2019)

If and when Canon releases a budget FF ILC R with a sensor at least as good as my 5D mark III (That's a given for sure. That's a 7 year old sensor), and it has shutter speed, iso, and aperture adjustments (Also a given), then I am probably a buyer. That's really all I need to take good photos. To be honest, those are the only controls (besides focus points) that I use anyway (manual shooter). Any other feature is just gravy, for me. The only thing stopping me getting a $999 6D is the focus points. And no, I would not have any qualms about eventually buying high end RF lenses to mount on it. I mostly shoot fashion and almost always single shot.

Yup, I could wait around for the high end R, but I don't "need" all that it would provide.


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## Nelu (Jan 27, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


You guys don’t get it:”EOS RP” = “Reduced Price”


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## knight427 (Jan 27, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Pfttt. Who says pros are in a rush for it right now? What is ******* are the "Canon is *******" comments.



Don’t be silly, “Canon is *******” comments will be around as long as Canon is around. They therefore have a long life ahead of them.


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## TAF (Jan 27, 2019)

Hummm...sports camera?

Maybe a camera for sport use, ie highly water resistant with greatly reduced controls.

P = Protected


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## Pape (Jan 27, 2019)

hmm you dont have much trust to biggest camera maker of these days. 
i think entry camera got big enough sensor to make k8 videos .
It will be game changer like d300.
There will be enhance battery grip what gives extra prosessor power and battery to shoot sport speed and uncropped k8.
EG-E1 later E is always on canon accessories what are related to electric so enhance grip is logical explanation


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 27, 2019)

TAF said:


> Hummm...sports camera?
> 
> Maybe a camera for sport use, ie highly water resistant with greatly reduced controls.
> 
> P = Protected



Protected
sPort
suPurb
stuPendous
I’m more inclined to believe P doesn’t stand for a word related to the camera, if there is one, but rather an arbitrary letter they think sounds good.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Jan 27, 2019)

MintChocs said:


> Less specs than the R, r they having a laugh! It’s probably designed to sell in the 3rd world. They should name it RIP (rest in peace) instead of RP.



Hard to see how they could make the EOS R more down market: 1fps, 10EV DR, 2.36MP EVF, 921K rear LCD, single UHS-1 slot, no eye AF, only [email protected] video. Drop the price of the EOS R to where it should be, $1600 and you already have the entry-level mirrorless. Surely they can't rehash that crap 6DII sensor.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Jan 27, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Hard to see how they could make the EOS R more down market



Two words:
Smaller
Sensor


----------



## mb66energy (Jan 27, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Hard to see how they could make the EOS R more down market: 1fps, 10EV DR, 2.36MP EVF, 921K rear LCD, single UHS-1 slot, no eye AF, only [email protected] video. Drop the price of the EOS R to where it should be, $1600 and you already have the entry-level mirrorless. Surely they can't rehash that crap 6DII sensor.



Just think about M5 to M50 downgrading. Official prices are roughly a factor 2 after start. The funny thing is, that the M50 just outspecs the M5 in some areas while having a plastic body shell and less direct controls.

If we think about the EOS R as equivalent of the M5 and the EOS RP as equivalent to M50 the 1500$ list price at the beginning is reasonable without crippling its "inner values" to much.

About direct controls: I do not see myself using RF lenses from the start. I will use my EF glass with the control ring adapter (f-stop e.g.). And I will reuse some FD lenses e.g. the 4.0 17mm, 1.4 50mm and 2.5 135mm.


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## qudek77 (Jan 27, 2019)

If the roadmap based on leaks goes like: 

EOS R --> EOS RP (cheaper model) --> EOR Rs (high resolution model) --> EOS Rx (1dxII equivalent) --> EOS Rd (5D series equivalent)

I'm going to switch to Sony, I cannot wait for canon to release a mirrorless 5D series body for 2-3 years. Bad decision as far as release schedule is concerned.


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## wockawocka (Jan 27, 2019)

Hey, you know P could really mean professional. It could well be a development announcement - although I hate the name and as a wedding tog 'P for professional' isn't the kind of cheesy comment I wish to be reminded of.

I actually disagree there's going to be a lower entry point body at this stage, there can't be with such a small number of lenses available. Who's going to buy it? Soccer moms with two kit lenses? The current R model is pro enough to act as a test bed for semi pro's and pro's alike who already have a good few lenses.

Trying to smash the budget market seems silly. But that's just my 2c's, happy to be wrong.

We should see a pro body this year, even if it's something like a high mp R replacement rather than a 5D+ level camera. I really can't see Canon holding off for 12 months.


----------



## 100 (Jan 27, 2019)

peters said:


> I was pretty in love with the mirrorless System of canon and the lenses look incredible. I was hoping for a replacement for my 1dx ii or 5d iv, which are either very unhandy (1d) or incredible bad at 4k (5d)
> When the video Features of the eos r where announced I was very disapointed - in my opinion video is where mirrorless realy plays out it advantages - and they just released a 1,8 (! Thats nearly mft, imagine that!) crop camera - what the hell?
> Then thr missing second card slot - which makes the camera not a suitable option for any professional work in my opinion. May be nice for your nephews birthday party, but certainly not for paid commercial, wedding or video work.
> Then I thought, maybe its nice for travel pr something and I tried it at photokina. It was an incredible disaster. The touchbar is the most idiotic Feature I ever saw on a camera. The new main dial is difficult to reach. And the biggest disapointment was the eye af - at first I thought it was turned off - but no, it is just so incredible bad...... Especialy after testing the sony a7r iii
> ...


So, you used it a couple of minutes at a tradeshow and knew it was crap.
Yet you own an “unhandy” 1DX II and a “incredible bad” 4k 5D. Didn’t try those before you bought them?
The 5D must be the mark IV with the same 4K video crop, so why did you buy that?

I don’t have the illusion I can teach you stuff though, without some form of common sense the learning curve would be too steep.


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## kapitaen (Jan 27, 2019)

The "P" stands for "Playground"

(duck and cover)

Greetings from germany
Chris


...and yes, i am eagerly waiting for the professional version


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## yungfat (Jan 27, 2019)

It make sense if Canon come out a camera with a simple function such as:

- removed top LCD
- no “Touch Bar”
- 6D2 sensor
- lighter weigh
- smaller body

This will be ideal camera for street photographers indeed packed with a smaller, lighter weight body. If there is such camera out to the market, it might probably competing against Fuji X series camera.

Cheers~


----------



## SecureGSM (Jan 27, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> Hey, you know P could really mean professional. It could well be a development announcement - although I hate the name and as a wedding tog 'P for professional' isn't the kind of cheesy comment I wish to be reminded of.
> 
> I actually disagree there's going to be a lower entry point body at this stage, there can't be with such a small number of lenses available. Who's going to buy it? Soccer moms with two kit lenses? The current R model is pro enough to act as a test bed for semi pro's and pro's alike who already have a good few lenses.
> 
> ...



it will be available in three colours, apparently. unlikely a Pro level camera then.


----------



## Joules (Jan 27, 2019)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Surely they can't rehash that crap 6DII sensor.


Well, keeping in mind that we already know the next Mirrorless Full Frame camera will have a 26 MP sensor:

https://www.canonrumors.com/breaking-down-the-latest-canon-gear-to-appear-for-certification/

It seems highly likely (And pretty insane to me) that they will do just that.


----------



## wockawocka (Jan 27, 2019)

Joules said:


> Well, keeping in mind that we already know the next Mirrorless Full Frame camera will have a 26 MP sensor:
> 
> https://www.canonrumors.com/breaking-down-the-latest-canon-gear-to-appear-for-certification/
> 
> It seems highly likely (And pretty insane to me) that they will do just that.



I heard that the 6d mki is better than the ii?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 27, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> it will be available in three colours, apparently. unlikely a Pro level camera then.


What, pros can’t have a fashion sense?


----------



## Del Paso (Jan 27, 2019)

peters said:


> My guess: they will release a cheap EOS R around may at around 1500$. Its hard to imagine what they could do to make the EOS R even worse, but my guess will be: lower resolution, even slower, less AF features and 4k features will be absolutely not better. Maybe remove the top display and the touch bar to have some weird disadvantegs over the EOS R. Maybe add 3 colors (red and white) to the body to give it an even more consumer feel.
> 
> At the end of 2019 they may come around with 4 additional lenses and finaly a professional EOS R. If we are lucky they will include a 30mp+ sensor, dual cards and a 4k mode with "only" 1,3x crop factor and still a crippled codec and no ibis. By this time Sony may have released their a7r iv with 4k raw or even 6k and 50mp or something....



Please do us a favour: spend your leisure time on the Wonderful Sony forum and stop preaching stupidities!


----------



## Mistral75 (Jan 27, 2019)

> Nokishita has found some information about a new Canon accessory called the “EG-E1”. this item appears to come in 3 different colors. Nokishita wonders if this is a new battery grip?



EG = Extension Grip?


----------



## bokehmon22 (Jan 27, 2019)

qudek77 said:


> If the roadmap based on leaks goes like:
> 
> EOS R --> EOS RP (cheaper model) --> EOR Rs (high resolution model) --> EOS Rx (1dxII equivalent) --> EOS Rd (5D series equivalent)
> 
> I'm going to switch to Sony, I cannot wait for canon to release a mirrorless 5D series body for 2-3 years. Bad decision as far as release schedule is concerned.



I'm considering Panasonic more. Sony has all the latest tech but usability is a mess - ergonomic and EVF is horrible. I tried their best A7RIII/A9 and it wasn't as great as the EOS R. The A7III is worst. Maybe that will change in the 7ASIII.

Here is the rumor Panasonic specs and Sigma is making EF-L adapter. I doubt Canon will make a camera like this for $2000. I'll wait until June to see if Canon can deliver a professional camera by then and if not, I'm changing camera but adapting my EF lens. Same goes for Sony.

*Panasonic Lumix S1:*

24MP full frame Sensor (Could be Same Sensor on Nikon Z6& Sony a7 III)
4K 60p/50p video recording
Dual I.S. image stabilization
Contrast AF (DFD technology)
Newly-developed image processing engine
Highest resolution EVF in the industry
Dual memory card slots: XQD memory card and UHS-II SD memory card
Rugged triaxial tilt LCD
L mount
Top LCD screen
3-axis tiltable LCD screen.
Weather sealing
The AF also includes deep learning Ai
High-precision, high-speed shutter
RAW output video rumors
High Resolution mode & HLG Photo
Specially designed grip
Shipping is in late March, 2019
Price: Around $2,000 for Body only
I'm not sure why Canon and Sony fan boy are so protective of their camera choice. It's just a tool and just use whatever it's best for you.

If Intel isn't providing great performance/value, I'll switch AMD.
If iPhone doesn't provide great features, I switched to Android etc.
Same goes for MAC & PC debate etc. 
I will stop making it an emotional decision to stay with Canon and making a logical one that give me the best features and value that I want.


----------



## Chines (Jan 27, 2019)

Would it be possible that P stands for 'Portable'?
If they start naming without numbers now the P will have to have a meaning in future versions -> P = Portable = No built in EVF, but a hot shoe adapter available separate.

Make the Canon EOS RP exactly the same as the eos R without the EVF and maybe drop one control element (touch bar). Make the MSRP 1799 (vs 2299 for the normal R) and sell a EVF adapter for 499. The 'street price' of the normal R will be about 2k, the street price of the RP 1500. It's cheap in R&D, could get a lot of users and would not be upsetting to any existing users. The high volume of 5D IV sensor can easily make this work even with cheaper prices in about a year. And at that point it is actually a decent offering: 1500 for a 5D IV sensor?

Going to future EOS R cameras (with number naming like EOS R 5, EOS R 6, ...) we could see a P version of nearly every of these cameras. Would make them super attractive for causula shooters or Vloggers.

Edit: It also fit's perfectly with the new accessory. Low level cameras are usually super cheap and in multiple colors => 3 colors of EVF adpaters matching the camera bodies


----------



## Dreamwalker Photography (Jan 27, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Pfttt. Who says pros are in a rush for it right now? What is ******* are the "Canon is *******" comments.


Never said "...pros were in a rush for it...", you inferred that without reading the entire sentence and not knowing the facts. In fact, pros, such as Geoff Ross, Colby Brown, Suzy Pratt, Francisco Hernandez, and myself, have been shifting to Sonys' pro (read: a9) mirrorless bodies. So too have many others; do a google search and you'll see the facts. The prosumer crowd might follow suit, and then Canon will feel the pinch. I hope not, as I have been a dedicated Canon user since 1983 and still use my Canon pro bodies on a regular basis, whilst hoping for a pro version of the R.


----------



## BurningPlatform (Jan 27, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> I hadn’t seen anybody mention this: what if canon RP was for an actual historic camera? https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/film39.html



Thanks for the link. As for "Canonflex RP" the "P" stood for "Populair" (economy), probably this is the meaning of "P" here as well.


----------



## peters (Jan 27, 2019)

100 said:


> So, you used it a couple of minutes at a tradeshow and knew it was crap.
> Yet you own an “unhandy” 1DX II and a “incredible bad” 4k 5D. Didn’t try those before you bought them?
> The 5D must be the mark IV with the same 4K video crop, so why did you buy that?
> 
> I don’t have the illusion I can teach you stuff though, without some form of common sense the learning curve would be too steep.


Bought the 1DX II for video (where it is fine, but only if you dont plan to shoot a lot, since the data rate is insane).
Bought the 5d IV for photography, (where it is fine, unless you need more resolution or speed) 

Right now we do a lot of video production where we need to shoot a lot of footage in a studio. Right now we stick to full-hd, but (as you probably now) the quality of the 1d and 5d in fullhd is pretty bad (when compared 1:1 to Lumix gh4 or gh5 or sony a7 whatever in full-hd mode). We would love to change to 4k, but that would leave us with about 1,5tb of data per day (so about 5tb if you consider 2 workstations and one backup). This is not okay for us. 
So this leaves me this option, if I want to stick to canon:
I buy 2 Canon C200 for 20.000$ in total and keeep my 1dx II and 5d iv (and 5d iii backup) (4.000 and 2000$). 
Or I sell my 3 cameras for 7.000$, spend 6.000$ on 2 sony a7r III and got 2 photo cameras that are way more capabable and also way better on the video front (since I dont realy need the 60fps4k of the 1dx II).

But please, feel free to explain to me, what exactly canon offers, If you need to produce 4k footage. Maybe I am missing an option. Or maybe, canon just totaly neglected this market (and we need at least a little bit of depth of field, so camcorders are not an option). At least I cant see anything that is remotely affordable to run 4k productions. I would even be fine with full-hd, if the compression wasnt THAT bad on the 5d iv and 1dx ii...


----------



## unfocused (Jan 27, 2019)

peters said:


> ...But please, feel free to explain to me, what exactly canon offers, If you need to produce 4k footage. Maybe I am missing an option. Or maybe, canon just totaly neglected this market (and we need at least a little bit of depth of field, so camcorders are not an option). At least I cant see anything that is remotely affordable to run 4k productions. I would even be fine with full-hd, if the compression wasnt THAT bad on the 5d iv and 1dx ii...



It sounds to me like you need something that Canon doesn't offer. The obvious answer is buy the brand that offers what you need. Complaining on a Canon forum isn't going to change anything. Not every product or brand is perfect for everyone.


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 27, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> Never said "...pros were in a rush for it...", you inferred that without reading the entire sentence and not knowing the facts. In fact, pros, such as Geoff Ross, Colby Brown, Suzy Pratt, Francisco Hernandez, and myself, have been shifting to Sonys' pro (read: a9) mirrorless bodies. So too have many others; do a google search and you'll see the facts. The prosumer crowd might follow suit, and then Canon will feel the pinch. I hope not, as I have been a dedicated Canon user since 1983 and still use my Canon pro bodies on a regular basis, whilst hoping for a pro version of the R.


Okay, that's a half dozen of you. Never heard of any of you, so I don't understand the name dropping. Influencers? Probably not. Hmmmm... wonder if I could find a half dozen Sony users who've switched to Canon. Harder to do because there are far fewer Sony users. That's a fact. The biggest fact is that "Pros" are not nearly as large a market as amateurs and enthusiasts (Who buy the lion's share of "pro" gear). As such, Canon would feel the pinch, or lack of pinch from there, in a more significant way. Since Sony is not making any significant market gains, I can safely assume that it is more tickle than pinch.

"Canon might be ******* indeed." If you meant that, then that seems to infer to me that you think Canon had better hurry because Canon is losing ground in a hurry with the Pro market. Your anecdotal list proves nothing, really. That's a fact.


----------



## peters (Jan 27, 2019)

unfocused said:


> It sounds to me like you need something that Canon doesn't offer. The obvious answer is buy the brand that offers what you need. Complaining on a Canon forum isn't going to change anything. Not every product or brand is perfect for everyone.


I personaly have the hope that exactly that will help. Many brands (canon included) does listen to the needs of their customers, especialy of their professional users. 

But maybe I fall into a niche - but I think the niche "photographer that also do 4k video production with under 30k budget" may be niche big enough for canon to fill. 

Anyway, if Canon wont announce ANYTHING that may fill that gap, I will switch to 2 Sony a7r III - which is even cheaper than getting one c200 and may also benefit my photography related work with silent shutter, a smaller body and a higher resolution.


----------



## Dreamwalker Photography (Jan 27, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The revenue share of a "pro" body like the EOS-1D X Mark II vs something like the EOS 6D Mark II is night and day. One retailer told me that they sold the EOS 6D at a rate of 1000 to 1 vs the EOS-1D X/EOS-1D X Mark II (it could be even higher globally). I also don't see pros dumping their EOS-1D X bodies and needing to adapt EF lenses. More RF mount lenses have to come first.


Agreed. The suite of RF lenses needs to be on par with the EF line or there be signs of that coming in short time (<1 yr).

Sales numbers aside, I never said that 5D bodies weren't pro bodies; I have a 5D Mk III and 5DSR which I use frequently. (The 5DSR rivals my a7RIII for portraiture, glamour, and nudes—but does not beat it—and excels in landscapes, so I do not see my dropping them anytime soon.)


----------



## Dreamwalker Photography (Jan 27, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Okay, that's a half dozen of you. Never heard of any of you, so I don't understand the name dropping. Influencers? Probably not. Hmmmm... wonder if I could find a half dozen Sony users who've switched to Canon. Harder to do because there are far fewer Sony users. That's a fact. The biggest fact is that "Pros" are not nearly as large a market as amateurs and enthusiasts (Who buy the lion's share of "pro" gear). As such, Canon would feel the pinch, or lack of pinch from there, in a more significant way. Since Sony is not making any significant market gains, I can safely assume that it is more tickle than pinch.
> 
> "Canon might be ******* indeed." If you meant that, then that seems to infer to me that you think Canon had better hurry because Canon is losing ground in a hurry with the Pro market. Your anecdotal list proves nothing, really. That's a fact.



Do you understand what the meaning of the word "might" is? It's a chance, not a certainty. On the other hand, look at the market share Sony now has—they've outsold Nikon in all areas and trumped Canon in all categories save for pro-bodies. Check Gartner Group research and then back to us with "facts."


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 27, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> Do you understand what the meaning of the word "might" is? It's a chance, not a certainty. On the other hand, look at the market share Sony now has—they've outsold Nikon in all areas and trumped Canon in all categories save for pro-bodies. Check Gartner Group research and then back to us with "facts."


By categories, do you mean sales? Because that is what decides whether Canon is ******* or not. Sony holds about a 14% market share. Fact. How about a link to the research to which you refer? Here are some facts for you below:
https://photorumors.com/2018/07/22/bcn-ranking-japan-canon-is-1-in-the-mirrorless-market-for-2018/

If you are talking strictly mirrorless, Sony is quickly losing market share. https://www.videomaker.com/canon-and-nikon-are-taking-the-mirrorless-market-share-from-sony-in-japan


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 27, 2019)

peters said:


> I personaly have the hope that exactly that will help. Many brands (canon included) does listen to the needs of their customers, especialy of their professional users.


Sure they do. They send surveys to consumers. They gather data from product registrations. For professional feedback, they survey CPS members, gather informal feedback at events they sponsor, etc. But any yokel can post on a forum claiming to be a pro Canon shooter in desperate need of this, that or the other...and while I doubt Canon even bothers considering feedback on their own forum much less this one, if they do they likely give it the credence it deserves – none. If you want to share your opinion with Canon, this isn’t the place.


----------



## Pape (Jan 27, 2019)

Chines said:


> Would it be possible that P stands for 'Portable'?
> If they start naming without numbers now the P will have to have a meaning in future versions -> P = Portable = No built in EVF, but a hot shoe adapter available separate.
> 
> Make the Canon EOS RP exactly the same as the eos R without the EVF and maybe drop one control element (touch bar). Make the MSRP 1799 (vs 2299 for the normal R) and sell a EVF adapter for 499. The 'street price' of the normal R will be about 2k, the street price of the RP 1500. It's cheap in R&D, could get a lot of users and would not be upsetting to any existing users. The high volume of 5D IV sensor can easily make this work even with cheaper prices in about a year. And at that point it is actually a decent offering: 1500 for a 5D IV sensor?
> ...


It sounds likely EG-1E is really optional electric viewfinder for new R camera.
removing viewfinder makes it lot flatter so P could be Pancake or Pocket too


----------



## TAF (Jan 27, 2019)

qudek77 said:


> If the roadmap based on leaks goes like:
> 
> EOS R --> EOS RP (cheaper model) --> EOR Rs (high resolution model) --> EOS Rx (1dxII equivalent) --> EOS Rd (5D series equivalent)



That schedule makes a reasonable amount of sense if they step lively. RP in spring of 2019 (summer vacation sales), Rs in the fall (in time for Christmas), then Rx the following spring (2020) in time for the Tokyo Olympics, then Rd in the fall of 2020 to catch the Christmas 2020 sales opportunity plus the halo of the success from the Olympics.

Since the Rs sounds like what I want for my next upgrade, that would be just enough time to finish saving for it.

Have they ever done consecutive 6 month drops before?


----------



## bokehmon22 (Jan 27, 2019)

slclick said:


> If you have been paying attention, the lower than current R body to come next has been widely known as to be the next release. Y'all are acting like the next R body will have a T2i sensor. I'm not sure but getting on a forum and spewing how Canon is ******* (what's the acronym again?) while they continue to $$$$$ year after year seems to be a mental masturbation conundrum for you.



When the EOS R was release, it's rumored the next FF mirrorless would be a pro model after a lot of people disappointed in the EOS R.

It wasn't until the last couple months we got more info that a lower entry would come. We don't know what Canon sensor they will have but my guess is Canon 6D II sensor. It isn't bad, but it's trailing behind Sony, Nikon and most likely Panasonic (rumored to have the same 24 & 47 mpx sensor).

Canon won't be doom. It isn't doom after 5D IV, 6D II, EOS R release. It won't be doom anytime soon.

I think some of us are disappointed waiting for Canon to join FF mirrorless. They were rumored to release a FF in 2015/2016. EOS R is disappointing for some who were expecting more like dual card slot, faster FPS, better 4K, better eyeAF. The EOS RP isn't reassuring to some of us who have hope for EOS R Pro and Canon isn't providing it to us even after all this time. Nikon is coming out with Z9 later this year with pro features and the compeitions are heating up.

I guess I'll wait until EOS RP along with Panasonic S1 and A7SIII and see what's best for me.


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 27, 2019)

Adelino said:


> The R is very well thought out, not every camera is designed exactly for you.



It's good that it has better ergonomic and EVF than Sony. The aperture control adapter along with close shutter is very nice.

I'm not a fan of touch bar. I set it as ISO 100 to my max ISO. I wish they have a couple extra custom button like Sony and joystick like my 5D IV.


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 27, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> I heard that the 6d mki is better than the ii?



Based on dynamic range chart, yes it is. EOS R modified 5D IV sensor has slightly worst performance compared to 5D IV. I expect the same if they used a tweak 6D II sensor for FF mirrorless. I'm not sure if banding will be an issue for shadow recovery either.


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## bhf3737 (Jan 27, 2019)

peters said:


> Bought the 1DX II for video (where it is fine, but only if you dont plan to shoot a lot, since the data rate is insane).
> Bought the 5d IV for photography, (where it is fine, unless you need more resolution or speed)
> 
> Right now we do a lot of video production where we need to shoot a lot of footage in a studio. Right now we stick to full-hd, but (as you probably now) the quality of the 1d and 5d in fullhd is pretty bad (when compared 1:1 to Lumix gh4 or gh5 or sony a7 whatever in full-hd mode). We would love to change to 4k, but that would leave us with about 1,5tb of data per day (so about 5tb if you consider 2 workstations and one backup). This is not okay for us.
> ...



I read these words as if your stated needs are either superficial or coming from GAS rather than real business needs. If you are actually running a professional photo/video business, you should know the moment you start re-thinking of new tools and re-investing in equipment, you lose your income. A real business minded pro gets the job done with whatever tool he/she has rather than complaining on forums. Switching to a different brand/system because of record data rate is laughable at best. Get a few more dirt cheap HDDs or SSDs and get over it. If your customers are not satisfied with the quality of your work, perhaps tools play a minor role in that. If you yourself are not satisfied with the quality of your work, there are other avenues to investigate and re-investing in tools may not be the only or the best decision.
Anyway, back to the question of what cannon offers for 4K production: 
For 4K production, C200 up. It meets the production needs without any gimmicks. And for FHD, as you mentioned you are comfortable with, again C100 gets the job done without any flaws. Moreover, both systems are scalable as the needs and business grow. 
If these do not satisfy your needs (both quality and budget), better look elsewhere. wasting time on forums will not help.


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## slclick (Jan 27, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> When the EOS R was release, it's rumored the next FF mirrorless would be a pro model after a lot of people disappointed in the EOS R.
> 
> It wasn't until the last couple months we got more info that a lower entry would come. We don't know what Canon sensor they will have but my guess is Canon 6D II sensor. It isn't bad, but it's trailing behind Sony, Nikon and most likely Panasonic (rumored to have the same 24 & 47 mpx sensor).
> 
> ...


iirc the thought that the next body would be pro was forum members conjecture and hopes...not CR information.


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 27, 2019)

slclick said:


> iirc the thought that the next body would be pro was forum members conjecture and hopes...not CR information.



https://www.canonwatch.com/canon-ex...-ef-lenses-in-2019-and-a-pro-model-is-coming/

LensVid had a long interview at Photokina 2018 with Mike Burnhill from Canon Europe. https://lensvid.com/gear/canon-interview-eos-r-and-more-photokina-2018/

"Burnhill made it clear that a pro mirrorless camera will most likely include a dual card slot." This is back in Photokina.

https://www.canonrumors.com/two-canon-eos-r-series-bodies-coming-in-2019-cr2/
_The second body will be a “professional” series camera coming later in 2019 _

We all assumed they released EOS R first and EOS R Pro later. This is CR2 dated back 10/2018.

Hopefully the EOS RP is the professional model. It would be an exciting time to be a photographer to have an option to choose Sony A7SIII, Canon EOS R Pro, Panasonic S1/R.

I have no problem with Canon releasing Pro camera first in Feb and entry later in mid-late 2019.


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## qudek77 (Jan 27, 2019)

TAF said:


> That schedule makes a reasonable amount of sense if they step lively. RP in spring of 2019 (summer vacation sales), Rs in the fall (in time for Christmas), then Rx the following spring (2020) in time for the Tokyo Olympics, then Rd in the fall of 2020 to catch the Christmas 2020 sales opportunity plus the halo of the success from the Olympics.
> 
> Since the Rs sounds like what I want for my next upgrade, that would be just enough time to finish saving for it.
> 
> Have they ever done consecutive 6 month drops before?



Makes sense for them sure, but for the customers who need something little more serious right now? Not really. The only choice is the dated 5D IV which is just to expensive for what it offers. I really like the video autofocus and lenses, but why don't they step up their body game?

It's really frustrating for me because I need a "jack of all trades" camera mainly for video that also has good enough stills, and there is no product matching that description right now...


----------



## peters (Jan 27, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> I read these words as if your stated needs are either superficial or coming from GAS rather than real business needs. If you are actually running a professional photo/video business, you should know the moment you start re-thinking of new tools and re-investing in equipment, you lose your income. A real business minded pro gets the job done with whatever tool he/she has rather than complaining on forums. Switching to a different brand/system because of record data rate is laughable at best. Get a few more dirt cheap HDDs or SSDs and get over it. If your customers are not satisfied with the quality of your work, perhaps tools play a minor role in that. If you yourself are not satisfied with the quality of your work, there are other avenues to investigate and re-investing in tools may not be the only or the best decision.
> Anyway, back to the question of what cannon offers for 4K production:
> For 4K production, C200 up. It meets the production needs without any gimmicks. And for FHD, as you mentioned you are comfortable with, again C100 gets the job done without any flaws. Moreover, both systems are scalable as the needs and business grow.
> If these do not satisfy your needs (both quality and budget), better look elsewhere. wasting time on forums will not help.



Ok, first of all: why the hell would changing to new tools mean a loss in income??? Belive it or not, we can afford to by a second set of cameras and sell the old ones on a later date, once we established a working an reliable workflow.

Now to the "GAS" and your "a working pro gets the job done with whatever tool he has": okay, please tell me exactly how we can produce a better image in our studio with the 5d iv and 1dx ii without switching to 4k? I compared other "tools" 1:1 side by side with the 1dx ii in fullhd and guess what, the sony a7r iii and the sony gh5 both produced a MUCH better fullhd image at the same setup. Its just a disgusting compression on the canons fullhd image, that cant be removed with any smart professional skills you may offer. And its not that the client is realy unhappy, but its 2019 and I think more and more, that this image quality is not up to date and would raise an eyebrow, If we didnt improved it by 2020.
As I said, "a few more" HDDs wont handle that. Currently we film up to 4 days per week, 8 hours straight - if we would switch to 4k (the ONLY better setting the canons offer) we would result thanks to the idiotic MJPG Codec at over 6tb of files per day that we need to copy on a server, upload and distribute on different workstations. This is an insane amount of time and a total unecessary amount of money we would waste. I would pay 800$ per week just to get new harddrives.

The situation is this: I am a photographer but right now we happen to produce more videos. I do NOT want to buy 2 new ADDITIONAL cameras (actualy better 3, as we should have one backup). I just want a decent all around workhorse.
If Canon just put a usefull 4k in their flagship DSLRs, then everything would be fine.

I REALY doubt that my niche is very small or special: "*Photographer that also make 4k videos and want a decent all in one tool*". It wouldnt even matter if it was 6000$ like the 1dx II (which is a overprized and VERY specific tool), since one would need only 2, not 4 cameras. They could have just released ONE workhorse for EVERYTHING, by just implement a decent 4k mode in the 5d IV. That would have made A LOT of people happy. But they choose not to, and they did so again with the (clearly consumer focused) EOS R. 

But you are right with one thing though, I am wasting my time here.


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 27, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> If you are talking strictly mirrorless, Sony is quickly losing market share. https://www.videomaker.com/canon-and-nikon-are-taking-the-mirrorless-market-share-from-sony-in-japan



Wait, what? 

I have a hard time believing that last spring Sony had 99.5 percent of the mirrorless market. Maybe if they really mean full frame mirrorless (should have been 100% of the market), in which case they quite naturally will lose market share given the introduction of competing products (unless those fail to secure any sales).


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## Hector1970 (Jan 27, 2019)

They might release a 6D and 5DSR equivalent simultaneously. One a little cheaper than the EOS R and one about 1000$ more expensive to drive EOS R sales in the middle.


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## Kit. (Jan 27, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> https://www.canonrumors.com/two-canon-eos-r-series-bodies-coming-in-2019-cr2/
> _The second body will be a “professional” series camera coming later in 2019 _
> 
> We all assumed they released EOS R first and EOS R Pro later. This is CR2 dated back 10/2018.


"We’re told that two EOS R series bodies will be coming in 2019. One will be slotted below the Canon EOS R itself and _will come first._ The second body will be a “professional” series camera _coming later_ in 2019. What “professional” means is unknown at this time."

Are you reading something different?


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## unfocused (Jan 27, 2019)

peters said:


> ...But you are right with one thing though, I am wasting my time here.



Well, of course you are. This is a discussion forum. Threads like this are for entertainment purposes only. If you want to participate by venting about how Canon doesn't meet needs that you have, that's perfectly fine, but don't get upset when others disagree and make counter arguments. That's what a discussion forum is all about. No one is saying that your needs aren't legitimate for you. But, that doesn't mean others have to share your point of view. 

Now, if you think Canon will take note of your points, as Neuro said, that's not going to happen by you venting on a forum. In this era of big data, Canon has a lot more efficient, effective and accurate ways to obtain feedback.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 27, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> I have a hard time believing that last spring Sony had 99.5 percent of the mirrorless market. Maybe if they really mean full frame mirrorless (should have been 100% of the market), in which case they quite naturally will lose market share given the introduction of competing products (unless those fail to secure any sales).


Bad reporting, clearly they meant FF mirrorless. As for the other 0.5%...Leica?


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## Don Haines (Jan 27, 2019)

Kit. said:


> "We’re told that two EOS R series bodies will be coming in 2019. One will be slotted below the Canon EOS R itself and _will come first._ The second body will be a “professional” series camera _coming later_ in 2019. What “professional” means is unknown at this time."
> 
> Are you reading something different?


I think about the safe thing to say about a “professional “ canon camera is that it will have 2 card slots, but I wouldn’t bet on even that..... for all we know it might be a single slot plus wireless (of some form). Cellular backup could be a great feature for sports shooting, as you take the shot, it gets sent back to the news room fo editing/usage


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## dba101 (Jan 27, 2019)

qudek77 said:


> Makes sense for them sure, but for the customers who need something little more serious right now? Not really. The only choice is the dated 5D IV which is just to expensive for what it offers. I really like the video autofocus and lenses, but why don't they step up their body game?
> It's really frustrating for me because I need a "jack of all trades" camera mainly for video that also has good enough stills, and there is no product matching that description right now...



So you 'NEED' something a little more serious right now. A jack of all trades camera, mainly for video, but also with 'good enough' stills, 
Oh dear me..
You wont get far on here mate I would go while you can.


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## 100 (Jan 27, 2019)

peters said:


> Bought the 1DX II for video (where it is fine, but only if you dont plan to shoot a lot, since the data rate is insane).
> Bought the 5d IV for photography, (where it is fine, unless you need more resolution or speed)
> 
> Right now we do a lot of video production where we need to shoot a lot of footage in a studio. Right now we stick to full-hd, but (as you probably now) the quality of the 1d and 5d in fullhd is pretty bad (when compared 1:1 to Lumix gh4 or gh5 or sony a7 whatever in full-hd mode). We would love to change to 4k, but that would leave us with about 1,5tb of data per day (so about 5tb if you consider 2 workstations and one backup). This is not okay for us.
> ...


You say you bought the 1DX II for video followed by the reasons it’s not ok for you.
People needing 4k FF video with an acceptable data rate shouldn’t buy a 6k$ sport/action DSLR recording Motion JPEG with a 1.3 crop at 800Mbps (or 500Mbps if you don’t need 60fps 4K). You could have bought 2 A7S II instead of one 1DX II.

I’m not arguing Canon is offering you what you want/need in your price range.
Just that the cameras Canon offers aren’t crap because they don’t have the specific functionality you want/need. EF lenses will do just fine on Sony cameras and there are other video options out there with EF mount, so just buy what you need.


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 28, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I think about the safe thing to say about a “professional “ canon camera is that it will have 2 card slots, but I wouldn’t bet on even that..... for all we know it might be a single slot plus wireless (of some form). Cellular backup could be a great feature for sports shooting, as you take the shot, it gets sent back to the news room fo editing/usage


Not so great for wildlife in the field though, where cell towers may be nonexistent.


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## TAF (Jan 28, 2019)

qudek77 said:


> Makes sense for them sure, but for the customers who need something little more serious right now? Not really. The only choice is the dated 5D IV which is just to expensive for what it offers. I really like the video autofocus and lenses, but why don't they step up their body game?
> 
> It's really frustrating for me because I need a "jack of all trades" camera mainly for video that also has good enough stills, and there is no product matching that description right now...




At least we are agreed that it makes sense for Canon. I hope this proves to be a correct analysis, as it works for me .

Sadly, there are always going to be those customers whose needs are immediate; Canon will simply have to get them 'the next time around'.


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## SecureGSM (Jan 28, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> What, pros can’t have a fashion sense?



Yes, they can! aren't they good looking cameras?


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 28, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Bad reporting, clearly they meant FF mirrorless. As for the other 0.5%...Leica?


Bad, and silly. 

I’d expect Leica sales to amount to a rounding error, but maybe so!


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## deleteme (Jan 28, 2019)

Most pros will not be abandoning Canon anytime soon for the same reasons that pros who use Nikon will not abandon that platform. As business people they see the cost is high and coupled with acclimating to a new system adds huge stress to the business.
Canon knows they will have switchers but they have always had them. They may leave, but new ones come over and the perennial switchers will be back.
I do like my R. It won’t save my life but it fills gaps that my mk IV can’t do.


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## Jamie8848 (Jan 28, 2019)

shunsai said:


> EOS-RP. 'P' as in 'Pro'? or 'P' as in 'Plastic'?



Or as in RiP, haters will have a field day


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## Pape (Jan 28, 2019)

P camera i think it doesnt mean just one p its many p . Platform,Pocket,Popular,Pro.
They shave viewfinder and grip away and reduce thickness to 3cm ,4cm with pancake objective.
So it fits to pocket as smartphone.Now comes most important P Phone,its smartphone too.
Yep not smarthone with camera , Camera with smartphone.
Thats why popular ,they dont want just back old market share before camera phones ,they want also smartphones market share.
It turns Pro sport camera when you buy Grip module with extra processor punch and electric viewfinder module.
You can aslo buy cheap consumer grip with disco lights ,then its P like Party.
Last P is Pneumatic shutter ,it shoots curtains off with air rifle and back with other pipe.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jan 28, 2019)

Looks like Canonwatch is leaning towards a high-res pro camera while Canonrumours to a lower-end model. Time will tell. 

I'd like it to be a high-res dual slot thing, and preferably before September due to my schedule, but who cares...


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## Del Paso (Jan 28, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> Yes, they can! aren't they good looking cameras?


I want them all for "stealth" photography!
Gimme gimme!!!


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## qudek77 (Jan 28, 2019)

dba101 said:


> So you 'NEED' something a little more serious right now. A jack of all trades camera, mainly for video, but also with 'good enough' stills,
> Oh dear me..
> You wont get far on here mate I would go while you can.


Hmm, go where , Sony is not that perfect either, the a7RIII and a7III still lack a good video AF and ergonomics. Such a hard decision to make.


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## wockawocka (Jan 28, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Looks like Canonwatch is leaning towards a high-res pro camera while Canonrumours to a lower-end model. Time will tell.
> 
> I'd like it to be a high-res dual slot thing, and preferably before September due to my schedule, but who cares...



I agree with the higher end body.

There's a need for a replacement of the 5Dsr and it doesn't have to be particularly high powered or fast either. It would address two products in one launch and also, if it's 100mp, it will be another world first / class leading product that also uses the RF lenses to their potential.


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## asl (Jan 28, 2019)

Treyarnon said:


> My guess will be:
> plastic body.
> Simplify the controls (no touchbar - possibly omit the rear dial)
> Maybe remove the articulating screen (Canon might choose to keep this if it helps differentiate it from Sony's and Nikon's equivalent cameras)
> ...



No touch bar, no top LCD not necessarily cons IMO, that 6d2 sensor however got to go.


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## Dreamwalker Photography (Jan 28, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> By categories, do you mean sales? Because that is what decides whether Canon is ******* or not. Sony holds about a 14% market share. Fact. How about a link to the research to which you refer? Here are some facts for you below:
> https://photorumors.com/2018/07/22/bcn-ranking-japan-canon-is-1-in-the-mirrorless-market-for-2018/
> 
> If you are talking strictly mirrorless, Sony is quickly losing market share. https://www.videomaker.com/canon-and-nikon-are-taking-the-mirrorless-market-share-from-sony-in-japan


A remedial reading course might be in the offering for you. Your first link collected NO DATA whatsoever on Sony or Fuji. Your second link starts off with "Now Sony holds just 67% percent of the market." Just 67%? Sounds like the majority of the market to me, unless you're operating on a different base numbering system.


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## Ozarker (Jan 28, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> A remedial reading course might be in the offering for you. Your first link collected NO DATA whatsoever on Sony or Fuji. Your second link starts off with "Now Sony holds just 67% percent of the market." Just 67%? Sounds like the majority of the market to me, unless you're operating on a different base numbering system.


Um, yeah. 67% of a market that 3 months before was 99.9% (FF mirrorless). It isn't really that hard to understand. Trying to go slow for you. Sony only led where there was zero competition. Fuji has no FF mirrorless camera, so why compare that to Sony, Nikon, and Canon in the FF mirrorless market? You were talking about professionals like yourself (FF pros) leaving Canon for Sony, right? Lets not muddy the water. If you'd like to compare overall world wide market share for all mirrorless... Canon stomps both. In fact, Canon stomps everyone.

Maybe this helps: Canon has captured 0% of the M4/3 market. Feel better?

Sony: Abysmal market share, in a shrinking market, losing market share.

Here, this includes Sony on Sony's home turf: https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-1-in-japanese-market-share-for-both-dslr-and-mirrorless-in-2018/

Then there's this ranking of world wide market share way back in August before Canon ever enters the FF mirrorless market: https://photorumors.com/2018/08/01/...ket-share-latest-nikkei-bcn-and-cipa-reports/


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 28, 2019)

Dreamwalker Photography said:


> A remedial reading course might be in the offering for you. Your first link collected NO DATA whatsoever on Sony or Fuji.


BCN collects data in all sales for 2/3 of the Japanese retail market. They only _report_ the top 3 sellers in their rankings. So they fact that you don’t see Sony/Fuji listed does not mean data weren’t collected, it means the data show that neither Sony nor Fuji managed to make it into the top 3. 

I don’t know if remedial thinking courses are offered anywhere, but that may be something for you to look into.


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## SaP34US (Jan 28, 2019)

Is the EOS RP going to be a lower end FF camera or a pro one? I would guess that it is going to be the lower end FF. I think they will announce two comamera bodies one to be released in late Q1 or early Q2 and another body for release in Q3 or Q4 and seven lenses (2) 24-70mm lenses w/maybe f2.8 and f4 one L lens one non L, 85 mm f2.8 L, 100mm f2.8 non L, 70-200mm f2.8-3.5, 50mm f1.8, and 24mm f2 at various release dates throughout the year.


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## scyrene (Jan 29, 2019)

qudek77 said:


> Hmm, go where , Sony is not that perfect either, the a7RIII and a7III still lack a good video AF and ergonomics. Such a hard decision to make.



It must be an outlook thing - opimist versus pessimist, perhaps. I look at all the camera gear on the market and think how amazing it is, if only I had the money to buy it all. Any camera will do most things pretty well. All have deficiencies. But to feel oneself uncatered for... what a shame. (If you are seeking perfection, I can tell you now: you will never find it).


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## slclick (Jan 29, 2019)

scyrene said:


> It must be an outlook thing - opimist versus pessimist, perhaps. I look at all the camera gear on the market and think how amazing it is, if only I had the money to buy it all. Any camera will do most things pretty well. All have deficiencies. But to feel oneself uncatered for... what a shame. (If you are seeking perfection, I can tell you now: you will never find it).


You have to pick your priorities. For me it's color, menus and ergonomics (lens choices goes without saying) You can't have everything so....


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 30, 2019)

shutterfreek said:


> Handheld with the R in unbelievable! The image stabilization and autofocus is SUPERB! I don't mind the crop at all! The 4K footage is gorgeous.


Great video, I had much fun to watch it. Interestingly your post is a sort of minority report about those not complaining about the 4K crop and lack of IBIS. But obviously you are a skilled photographer/videographer and not a spec list slave. Thanks for your nice post bringing a bit of real photog life in here.


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## FairlyKors (Jan 30, 2019)

I understand identifying with the brand you shoot with and cheering it on or whatever, but dang things just get nasty when reality is ignored at the expense of justifying “your” brand. This is nasty, fugly thread.

I don’t care what Canon’s rumored to be doing, but if they’re up to _anything_ other than creating a far more impressive FF mirrorless camera than the EOS R, they’re in big trouble. We can pretend hat the EOS R is anything we want to—but to Canon, it has got to be an internal embarrassment. The result of not taking FF mirrorless seriously, decades of hubris, and finally getting run over by every other manufacturer selling the same kind of product (including one that hasn’t even released their first FF MILC yet).

To make excuses or come up with alternative facts to support the EOS R as a misunderstood success is the worst thing you can do if you’re a _true_ Canon fan. This, right now, should be the moment you stop making excuses for Canon and demand that they release something that is unquestionably better than the competition. A camera that needs exactly zero excuses, explanations, or extended handholding sessions in order to be seen as “good enough” or “superior.” I try to remain brand agnostic—but looking at all the cameras I’ve owned over the last 25 years you might think I was a Canon loyalist. However, I don’t see corporations as worthy places to park too much sentiment, nor vessels worthy of heavily emotionally investing in. Because they’re, uh, filthy _corporations_. 

Still, it’s fair to have both preference and hopes/expectations for a brand. And it (can) make the gear side of things more fun. But! If any of you give half a rat’s ažž about Canon, you better be hoping that they are in full-out panic mode right now, developing the EOS Round Two. Aside from the EOS R not being competitive in any single category but ergonomics and AF, sorta (it is undeniably behind—if not significantly—in categories like all-around sensor performance, all-around video performance, now-essential features like IBIS, in high MP capability, burst rate, um...2.2 fps max for AE/AF in C-RAW?... battery life, and the important bread and butter—_not trophy-_- lens options) they are also charging more for a camera that is *comparatively* severely lacking. I’m not saying the EOS R is lacking, in a different time and place it could’ve been the greatest camera ever released, and for some of you it is... I’m saying *COMPARATIVELY* it is lacking. (If you can’t hold this concept in you’re head then just stop reading.)

IMO, the best way to judge how a camera is doing is to look at gray market values. They cut through all the marketing BS, fluffed up “sales” numbers, past and future expectations (and even perceived availability or supply). Almost a year after its release, you still cannot find a new a7III for even 10% off its MRP. And, just over three months since the EOS R’s release date, it’s selling for a full 20% off its MRP ray market. The Nikon Z6 is around the 10% mark.

Okay, so Canon didn’t take the EOS R seriously. Fine. Who cares. Life goes on. What matters is what they do next. If it’s a watered down EOS R (which pains me to even think about) that’s more than a bad sign, and quite frankly not even believable.

If, however, it’s the camera everyone here knows Canon *CAN* make, at an un-Canon-like competitive price, then all the silly “doom and gloom” talk can be shelved. Making excuses for Canon and weaving tales to justify shortcomings is exactly the same behavior that enabled American car manufacturers to produce some of the worst cars on the planet—ultimately resulting in losing ownership of these American companies to foreign investment and takeovers. Just hold Canon responsible if you truly care about them and want to see better products.


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## Kit. (Jan 30, 2019)

FairlyKors said:


> I understand identifying with the brand you shoot with and cheering it on or whatever, but dang things just get nasty when reality is ignored at the expense of justifying “your” brand. This is nasty, fugly thread.
> 
> I don’t care what Canon’s rumored to be doing, but if they’re up to _anything_ other than creating a far more impressive FF mirrorless camera than the EOS R, they’re in big trouble.


Why are you so obsessed with this mirrorless fad anyway?

What I would like to see is cheaper FF cameras, and I don't care if they are mirrorless or not, except that the mirrorless can be made _cheaper_.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2019)

FairlyKors said:


> I understand identifying with the brand you shoot with and cheering it on or whatever, but dang things just get nasty when reality is ignored at the expense of justifying “your” brand. This is nasty, fugly thread.
> 
> I don’t care what Canon’s rumored to be doing, but if they’re up to _anything_ other than creating a far more impressive FF mirrorless camera than the EOS R, they’re in big trouble. We can pretend hat the EOS R is anything we want to—but to Canon, it has got to be an internal embarrassment. The result of not taking FF mirrorless seriously, decades of hubris, and finally getting run over by every other manufacturer selling the same kind of product (including one that hasn’t even released their first FF MILC yet).
> 
> ...


Yes, things can get fugly when people ignore reality. For example, you’ve ignored the reality that price is influenced by both demand and supply, and manufacturers control one of those two. More importantly, you’ve ignored the reality that in Japan, the only market for which we have data, the EOS R has sold well, and Canon is the top seller of MILCs. You’re also ignoring the reality that FF MILCs really don’t matter much – smaller sensor cameras wildly outsell FF models, so suggesting that Canon will be ‘in big trouble’ for not focusing on outspec-ing other FF MILCs is ridiculous.

Most importantly, you’re completely ignoring the reality of history. Many of the comments on this forum (yours included) and elsewhere regarding the EOS R differ only from the comments about the EOS M at launch by that one letter – R instead of M. The M was underspec’d. The M had few native lenses. Canon wasn’t serious about the EOS M. The M was a fail and if Canon didn’t come out with an uber-spec Sony-killer they would be ‘in big trouble’. A few years later, Canon became #1 in MILC sales, they remain the top seller today, and that is entirely due to the bashed-at-launch EOS M line. 

Do you know who seems to have correctly predicted the forthcoming dominance of the EOS M line at launch? Sony. When Canon entered the MILC market with an APS-C camera, Sony dropped NEX and cut back on their APS-C offerings, shifting their focus to FF MILCs. The question now —and it’s a serious question Sony users should be asking given that company’s history of exiting market segments where they lost competitiveness— is what will Sony do if Canon FF MILC line gains the same level of market dominance which their APS-C line has achieved.

TL;DR: threads can get fugly when people ignore reality...as you’ve done here.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jan 30, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Why are you so obsessed with this mirrorless fad anyway?
> 
> What I would like to see is cheaper FF cameras, and I don't care if they are mirrorless or not, except that the mirrorless can be made _cheaper_.


That is pretty much what I think about it too and I have never felt handicapped by a mechanism that is only there to allow me to look through the lens. For me it does not matter whether the camera is mirrorless or not, as long as it is enjoyable to use and is capable of achieving the results I expect. However, I accept that other people feel differently and some photographers are really hopeful that Canon will soon release a range of attractive and advanced mirrorless products.


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## dak723 (Feb 1, 2019)

FairlyKors said:


> I understand identifying with the brand you shoot with and cheering it on or whatever, but dang things just get nasty when reality is ignored at the expense of justifying “your” brand. This is nasty, fugly thread.
> 
> I don’t care what Canon’s rumored to be doing, but if they’re up to _anything_ other than creating a far more impressive FF mirrorless camera than the EOS R, they’re in big trouble. We can pretend hat the EOS R is anything we want to—but to Canon, it has got to be an internal embarrassment. The result of not taking FF mirrorless seriously, decades of hubris, and finally getting run over by every other manufacturer selling the same kind of product (including one that hasn’t even released their first FF MILC yet).
> 
> To make excuses or come up with alternative facts to support the EOS R as a misunderstood success is the worst thing you can do if you’re a _true_ Canon fan. This, right now, should be the moment you stop making excuses for Canon and demand that they release something that is unquestionably better than the competition.. ..



Thanks for the sermon. Regardless of what cameras one like or doesn't, one shouldn't make up complete bullcrap...such as:

"We can pretend that the EOS R is anything we want to—but to Canon, it has got to be an internal embarrassment."
or,
"The result of not taking FF mirrorless seriously, decades of hubris, and finally getting run over by every other manufacturer selling the same kind of product."
or,
"stop making excuses for Canon and demand that they release something that is unquestionably better than the competition."

Having used the R - and having read some reviews from reliable reviewers such as Dustin Abbott, Steve Huff and others, there is no reason for Canon to be "internally embarassed." All signs point to the fact that they are quite proud of the new system they are creating (and rightfully so, in my opinion). Most photographers understand that the lenses are the key to any photo system, and Canon seems poised to create an RF line that will be as fine or finer than their already excellent EF lenses. Many reviewers agree that Canon color is industry leading, and the ergonomics, menus, EVF, touch screen (and the fact that is it fully articulating) are also better than most of the mirrorless FF offerings. So, "getting run over" can probably be re-interpreted as " I didn''t get what *I want* or what *I think is important*."

The fact that they are the only mirrorless brand that came up with a sensor protection screen tells me that they have taken the design of their new mirrorless line VERY seriously. The fact that they have come up with a new control ring, and, perhaps even more importantly, adapters that give additional functionality to EF lens users, tells me they have taken FF mirrorless VERY seriously. 

And "demanding" that Canon release something that is unquestionably better than the competition," is so obviously unrealistic, that is needs llittle comment. I suppose if Canon had far more R&D money than the other brands - and the other brands didn't have patents - that it might be possible. But neither of those things are true, so it seems far more reasonable to assume that each brand will have some things they do better and some not as well as their competition. 

If those particular aspects of a camera and photo system that Canon does really well or better aren't important to you, then you should choose a brand that does meet your needs. It's that simple.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 1, 2019)

dak723 said:


> Most photographers understand that the lenses are the key to any photo system,



I wouldn’t say they’re “the key.” They represent a key part no doubt. Light is often neglected in that equation. I’m surprised more camera makers haven’t developed lighting beyond a few speedlights, or partnered with specialists likes Hasselblad has with Broncolor.

If I could wirelessly drive my profotos from the camera rather than with a $450 trigger, I’d be very happy.


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## Pape (Feb 1, 2019)

i like rather see canon be somewhat where all other, than being superior and verge of bankrupt


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 1, 2019)

Pape said:


> i like rather see canon be somewhat where all other, than being superior and verge of bankrupt



Sony and Panasonic isn't going to bankrupt. Imaging is a small segment in what they do. Sony sensor division is big. They make sensor for Nikon, Panasonic, EVF, and smart phones.

I'm pretty sure they can be superior without verge of bankrupt.


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Sony and Panasonic isn't going to bankrupt. Imaging is a small segment in what they do. Sony sensor division is big. They make sensor for Nikon, Panasonic, EVF, and smart phones.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they can be superior without verge of bankrupt.


Actually, Panasonic's camera division is in big trouble. It isn't profitable at all. Don't confuse the overall profitability of a diverse manufacturing conglomerate with a division of that company. Panasonic isn't going to keep throwing money down a bottomless hole forever. Panasonic's overall financial woes are well known.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/4882489366/panasonic-likely-to-scale-back-camera-division

Sony's camera division is suffering too.

Olympus and Pentax are in a race to see who closes the doors first.


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## xps (Feb 2, 2019)

I´d be interested, in which downgrades Canon does on the Eos RP. An Eos R with the P in the name for 1600... Entry level.
Which of the features are the price loss worth. My function bar? 4 fps? 20MP? 
What do yu think?


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## Pape (Feb 2, 2019)

nope its sport camera ,5div type camera is worst competitor of sport type expensive one.
Thats why R got only one card slot so it wont degrease RP sales.
consumer camera maybe M camera?
fun to see ,i hope i am wrong 
26mpixel just doesnt sound anything else than sport camera if full frame


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 2, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Actually, Panasonic's camera division is in big trouble. It isn't profitable at all. Don't confuse the overall profitability of a diverse manufacturing conglomerate with a division of that company. Panasonic isn't going to keep throwing money down a bottomless hole forever. Panasonic's overall financial woes are well known.
> 
> https://www.dpreview.com/news/4882489366/panasonic-likely-to-scale-back-camera-division
> 
> ...



You didn't post the follow up to that. Also from DPreview. They are doing internal organization structure.

*Update:*
_In response to the Nikkei story, Panasonic has put out the following statement:
'The recent article featured on the Nikkei regarding Panasonic’s Imaging business was not announced by Panasonic and refers to a change in our internal organizational structure.
Integrating all consumer electronics divisions, our consumer Digital Imaging business will move under Panasonic Appliances Company and is not being dismantled.
The aim of this change is to further deepen our relationships with customers, strengthen our product capabilities, and continue to firmly develop and promote our business.'
While the company says the division is not being dismantled, it's interesting to note that the statement does not contest the characterization that it will be scaled back. The statement also appears to confirm that some of the recommendations of the report are being implemented._

Panasonic's camera business is under the appliances segment. The appliances segment has a profitable operating profit. It does not break down to camera division

Read more: https://photorumors.com/2018/05/13/...-olympus-nikon-kodak-and-canon/#ixzz5eOqPRK2A 

Here is Canon report: "For interchangeable-lens cameras, the market in 2018 was down 10% to 10.3 million units. Our sales were down 9% to 5.04 million units..." "Additionally, we will also promote change in the distribution of internal resources, *from development* to production as well as sales & marketing."

Sony actually do well. Here is Q3 report. https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/son...nt-in-newly-released-q3-financial-statements/


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 2, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Looks like Canonwatch is leaning towards a high-res pro camera while Canonrumours to a lower-end model. Time will tell.
> 
> I'd like it to be a high-res dual slot thing, and preferably before September due to my schedule, but who cares...



CanonWatch just said it will be a lower EOS R

*CANON’S NEXT EOS R MODEL IS ENTRY LEVEL, COSTS $1600, AND HAS ONE CARD SLOT, ANNOUNCEMENT FEB 14*


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> You didn't post the follow up to that. Also from DPreview. They are doing internal organization structure.
> 
> *Update:*
> _In response to the Nikkei story, Panasonic has put out the following statement:
> ...



Yes, Canon sales down (like everyone else), but still very profitable. Still far ahead of Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Pentax/Ricoh, Olympus, etc.

Didn't forget, read the rest of it. That's a statement from Panasonic trying to quell nervousness of investors. Panasonic is in deep trouble and is scaling back the camera division in a big way. "..._it's interesting to note that the statement does not contest the characterization that it will be scaled back. The statement also appears to confirm that some of the recommendations of the report are being implemented._ "

Sales and Revenue does not = profit. Profit = Revenue - costs. A company can have a trillion $ in revenue and still no profit.

Panasonic made about $3,000,000 profit from it's camera division last year. Not good. With the market contracting, it will only get worse for them. Panasonic's minuscule market share...


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 2, 2019)

dak723 said:


> Thanks for the sermon. Regardless of what cameras one like or doesn't, one shouldn't make up complete bullcrap...such as:
> 
> "We can pretend that the EOS R is anything we want to—but to Canon, it has got to be an internal embarrassment."
> or,
> ...



Canon do get credit for some innovative features such as the control ring, ND filter adapter, control ring adapter, and close shutter, but they should also be criticize for other things that make them not taking it seriously in late 2018.

For $2300 camera, they are the only one still using recycle 5D IV sensor, no IBIS, no uncropped 4K, no continuous eyeAF, and single slot.

For $200 more, Panasonic S1 offers 5.6 million EVF, dual card slot, 4K 60, unlimited recording, dual IS, modern sensor (A7III sensor), continuous eyeAF with animal tracking

Sony A7III just got a price drop to $1800 with IBIS, eyeAF, and dual card slot. Sure they lack ergonomic and lower resolution EVF, but that's a very tempting price with alot things Sony bringing to the table.

Canon is the last manufacture who do NOT have IBIS, and continuous eyeAF. They also don't have uncropped 4K, dual card slot, and using recycle sensor. Some can argue they aren't taking FF mirrorless seriously because they need to protect their high end DSLR and cinema line.


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## dba101 (Feb 2, 2019)

Like a cracked record..


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 2, 2019)

FairlyKors said:


> I understand identifying with the brand you shoot with and cheering it on or whatever, but dang things just get nasty when reality is ignored at the expense of justifying “your” brand. This is nasty, fugly thread.
> 
> I don’t care what Canon’s rumored to be doing, but if they’re up to _anything_ other than creating a far more impressive FF mirrorless camera than the EOS R, they’re in big trouble. We can pretend hat the EOS R is anything we want to—but to Canon, it has got to be an internal embarrassment. The result of not taking FF mirrorless seriously, decades of hubris, and finally getting run over by every other manufacturer selling the same kind of product (including one that hasn’t even released their first FF MILC yet).
> 
> ...



I think the problem is people pick a few 'specs' they think are important and asume their opinion is the right one. All the while ignoring the fact that other factors matter to other people. For many people ergonomics is by far and away THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. Ibis is cool but hardly the most important thing if you are a stills shooter. Canon have produced a brilliant adapter selection which has made EF lenses 'native' for all i tents and purposes and in many cases more effective on an RF body than an EF body.from what i hear it shoots at 5fps with perfectly acceptable AF rather than the 2.2 fps you quote from the specs. Not surprising as canon does not beat their own drum re specs the way sony does . Sony specs never pan out in real life whereas canon specs are as good in real life and often better. And finally lets talk about the lens mount. Sony ridiculous choice mean they will NEVER match canons lens selection in the future. It is not possible. It is a crippled system from the get go, so for those actually looking toward the future it is better to stick with or buy into Canon because you know it has more potential in optics. And of course the price. Sony bodies are underpriced. Everyone knows that. Canon are in this game for the long haul so will price their bodies correctly. And their lenses are better value than equivalent sony glass. Total net price is about the same.


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## Jethro (Feb 2, 2019)

If the (very confident sounding) rumour on The Other Site is correct, then we are heading for a much cheaper FF mirrorless as the EOS RP announced mid-Feb. This is consistent with the earlier rumours, but not (by the way) inconsistent with another high MP EOS R also coming out later in the year. To me the interesting aspects of this are:

(i) the lens announcements accompanying the lower price version - because many of us are champing at the bit for more consumer-friendly pricing on RF lenses. I really want some non-L primes, including a 100mm macro, not so worried about holy trinity-style zooms, as I'm happy with the EF versions I have.

(ii) the sensor to be included in the EOS RP. I'm really struggling to think they would put the 6Dii version in there. On the other hand, putting the 5Div sensor in the EOS R was (to my mind) a way of upgrading the package to place it mid-way between the 6Dii body and the 5Div body (in price and performance). Could using the 6Dii sensor in the RP be a similar tactic of pitching the EOS RP body midway between a top level consumer APS-C (not necessarily the 7dii) and the 6D? But, the idea that they would put a new sensor in a camera priced at the level that is being discussed is also hard to believe.


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## Pape (Feb 3, 2019)

I hope they make consumer camera ,i am planning buy it 
It could be tactically nasty thing release very good performing cheap camera.
Sony ,nikon and panasonic are barely head over water ,canon can afford to not make much profit.


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## Jethro (Feb 3, 2019)

Pape said:


> Sony ,nikon and panasonic are barely head over water ,canon can afford to not make much profit.


None of this is about loss-leaders or opposition squeezing - Canon will release what they think maximises their profit. In this case, that will come with a combination of different EOS R series bodies and RF lenses (L and non-L). And an increasing emphasis on mirrorless over time, while supporting the DSLR and EF series until enough people transition over to mirrorless to make it profitable to wind the older series back. And that's a long ways away.


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## Ozarker (Feb 3, 2019)

Jethro said:


> None of this is about loss-leaders or opposition squeezing - Canon will release what they think maximises their profit. In this case, that will come with a combination of different EOS R series bodies and RF lenses (L and non-L). And an increasing emphasis on mirrorless over time, while supporting the DSLR and EF series until enough people transition over to mirrorless to make it profitable to wind the older series back. And that's a long ways away.


Unless DSLR remain profitable. No guarantee that mirrorless is going to take it all over.


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## dak723 (Feb 3, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Canon do get credit for some innovative features such as the control ring, ND filter adapter, control ring adapter, and close shutter, but they should also be criticize for other things that make them not taking it seriously in late 2018.
> 
> For $2300 camera, they are the only one still using recycle 5D IV sensor, no IBIS, no uncropped 4K, no continuous eyeAF, and single slot.
> 
> ...



If all you do is compare specs, then that is fine. If that is how you choose a camera, fine. But not everyone is like you. I tried both the Sony A7 and A7 II. Perhaps the third generation is better, but after trying the first two generations, I would not consider Sony, no matter what the price. All cameras have exposure metering, but a BASIC things like exposure in the Sonys - was awful. (1 1/2 stop underexposed in the A7 II). All mirrorless cameras have EVFs, and yes, I heard the 3rd generation Sony is better, but the first two were bad - very dark. Since WYSIWYG is one reason to get a mirrorless, if the EVF is not really giving you anything close, then it is a BAD spec. There are many photographers who report major dust issues, so even though every camera has a dust removel spec, I would rather have a spec that works really well, compared to one that doesn't.

Panasonic has impressive specs, too. But none of us has any idea if the new FF cameras cameras work well or not. Panaosnic users have complained on their forums for years about Panasonics AF being sub-par. It might be good enough, but since Panasonic is known for their great video, I would be skeptical that they have also figured out a way to be great at stills. As primarily a stills shooter, I have no interest. But, of course, if reports are good over the next few years, then I may look at Panasonic. But it does take years to know if a camera company delivers reliability. And reliability may be the most important spec for some folks - and worth a few hundred dollars, as well. So, comparing the price based on specs is really not a good measuring stick, in my opinion. A camera can load up on specs and cut back in other areas that make it not worth the price.

I'm sure you get my point. If the particular specs that Canon does not have are ones you need. then, of course, you might look elsewhere. But that does not mean Canon doesn't take mirrorless seriously. Sony's inability to make a camera that is comfortable to hold might tell someone that they don't take actual photo-taking seriously and all they are interested in is impressive specs. That sort of company does not interest me.


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## dak723 (Feb 3, 2019)

Aussie shooter said:


> ...Sony bodies are underpriced. Everyone knows that. Canon are in this game for the long haul so will price their bodies correctly. And their lenses are better value than equivalent sony glass. Total net price is about the same.



While it is just a guess, it has always seemed to me that Sony does underprice their cameras, which looks great to consumers and forum dwellers - and then they totally overprice their lenses to make up the difference. That's one strategy - and not the one that Canon or Nikon take. And thuse, as usual, Sony is admired on the forums and by reveiwers and the others trashed.


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 3, 2019)

dak723 said:


> If all you do is compare specs, then that is fine. If that is how you choose a camera, fine. But not everyone is like you. I tried both the Sony A7 and A7 II. Perhaps the third generation is better, but after trying the first two generations, I would not consider Sony, no matter what the price. All cameras have exposure metering, but a BASIC things like exposure in the Sonys - was awful. (1 1/2 stop underexposed in the A7 II). All mirrorless cameras have EVFs, and yes, I heard the 3rd generation Sony is better, but the first two were bad - very dark. Since WYSIWYG is one reason to get a mirrorless, if the EVF is not really giving you anything close, then it is a BAD spec. There are many photographers who report major dust issues, so even though every camera has a dust removel spec, I would rather have a spec that works really well, compared to one that doesn't.
> 
> Panasonic has impressive specs, too. But none of us has any idea if the new FF cameras cameras work well or not. Panaosnic users have complained on their forums for years about Panasonics AF being sub-par. It might be good enough, but since Panasonic is known for their great video, I would be skeptical that they have also figured out a way to be great at stills. As primarily a stills shooter, I have no interest. But, of course, if reports are good over the next few years, then I may look at Panasonic. But it does take years to know if a camera company delivers reliability. And reliability may be the most important spec for some folks - and worth a few hundred dollars, as well. So, comparing the price based on specs is really not a good measuring stick, in my opinion. A camera can load up on specs and cut back in other areas that make it not worth the price.
> 
> I'm sure you get my point. If the particular specs that Canon does not have are ones you need. then, of course, you might look elsewhere. But that does not mean Canon doesn't take mirrorless seriously. Sony's inability to make a camera that is comfortable to hold might tell someone that they don't take actual photo-taking seriously and all they are interested in is impressive specs. That sort of company does not interest me.



Canon camera is always greater than the sum of its part and I consider the handling, ergonomic, usability such as high resolution EVF and control ring adapter. But this isn't the only metric I consider when buying a camera or consider a system. Sony 7AIII is going to be $1800 while Canon EOS R is $2300.

Panasonic has the ergonomic, better build quality than Canon, better EVF, IBIS, dual card slot, high resolution mode. I'm primarily a still only photographer. The AF has been improved. If you are primarily a still shooter, the AF isn't a huge issue for you. They recently update version to version 0.6 FW and the AF has been improved for a pre production model 2 months out. If you only shoot still like I do, I would consider Panasonic for its still features - eyeAF, animal tracking, Dual IS, DFD for no banding and striping issues, 1/320 flash sync speed, high resolution EVF and ergonomic, fully touch screen LCD, dual card slot, 30 fps 6k photomode, in camera focus stacking and high resolution mode. They look like to have a better sensor than 5D IV too and have good color science. Jury is still out for dynamic range.

Some of the high ISO shot look better than Sony and Nikon too.

Panasonic build quality is very good and provide weather sealing. I don't hold Canon to be the gold standard when it come to build quality. My 24-70 II ring rubber fall out, my friend 85 1.2 rubber started peeling off and so is his 5D III rubber. He doesn't even shoot professionally.

I have come to a sad realization that Canon may not be a camera for me. As a Canon only shooter for a very long time who has never switch, I think it's time for me to look elsewhere. They will always hold back specs to protect their DSLR lines or Cinema EOS line. I'm not consider Sony A7III but A7SIII/A9II. They will surely include their 5.8 million EVF. I can deal with ergonomic issue by adding an L bracket.


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## Kit. (Feb 3, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Canon camera is always greater than the sum of its part and I consider the handling, ergonomic, usability such as high resolution EVF and control ring adapter. But this isn't the only metric I consider when buying a camera or consider a system. Sony 7AIII is going to be $1800 while Canon EOS R is $2300.


Now add 24-105 and 100-400... or do you consider systems without lenses?


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 3, 2019)

dak723 said:


> While it is just a guess, it has always seemed to me that Sony does underprice their cameras, which looks great to consumers and forum dwellers - and then they totally overprice their lenses to make up the difference. That's one strategy - and not the one that Canon or Nikon take. And thuse, as usual, Sony is admired on the forums and by reveiwers and the others trashed.



Sony do underprice their camera but they also take shortcut to achieve that price like 2.6 million EVF and 900K LCD. Their price is expensive but Canon new lens (50 1.2RF and 28-70 F2) is pretty expensive as well.


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 3, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Now add 24-105 and 100-400... or do you consider systems without lenses?



I am a wedding and portrait photographer. I don't want a 24-105 (had the first version one and sold it) or 100-400 lens.

Most of my lens system is Sigma Art with the exception of 24-70 II and 70-200 II, but I'll be happy with any 24-70 70-200 from any manufacture really. I think Sony has most of the Art lens in E mount and adapter that work well with the recent Art lens. 28-75 2.8 for $800 seems really affordable. I'm fine selling one or two non native lens if I get improve performance and gain IS.

Panasonic S1 will have 14 of their Art lens in L mount along with EF-L adapter. We will see how well it works with the system. I only need a few lens for wedding works and Sigma provided me with it.


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## Del Paso (Feb 4, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Canon camera is always greater than the sum of its part and I consider the handling, ergonomic, usability such as high resolution EVF and control ring adapter. But this isn't the only metric I consider when buying a camera or consider a system. Sony 7AIII is going to be $1800 while Canon EOS R is $2300.
> 
> Panasonic has the ergonomic, better build quality than Canon, better EVF, IBIS, dual card slot, high resolution mode. I'm primarily a still only photographer. The AF has been improved. If you are primarily a still shooter, the AF isn't a huge issue for you. They recently update version to version 0.6 FW and the AF has been improved for a pre production model 2 months out. If you only shoot still like I do, I would consider Panasonic for its still features - eyeAF, animal tracking, Dual IS, DFD for no banding and striping issues, 1/320 flash sync speed, high resolution EVF and ergonomic, fully touch screen LCD, dual card slot, 30 fps 6k photomode, in camera focus stacking and high resolution mode. They look like to have a better sensor than 5D IV too and have good color science. Jury is still out for dynamic range.
> 
> ...



Should you buy the Sony with a 70/200 F 2,8, don't forget to buy some superglue, since they have a tendency to break in two...


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 4, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Should you buy the Sony with a 70/200 F 2,8, don't forget to buy some superglue, since they have a tendency to break in two...



Damn are Sony lens that bad? They aren't cheap either


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