# BUY 5d MkII now or WAIT for 5d MkIII????



## haponat (Jun 11, 2011)

hey guys, could you please help me decide whether I should buy the 5d mark II now or wait for the 5d mark III? I am so confused about what to do.... 

Here is my situation,
If i am going to buy the 5d mark II now, i still have to wait for a month at least because all stocks are out currently.... and the price went up compared to the price before the earthquake hit Japan... Also, I really love the AF system of the 7D and I am hoping that there will be a lot more improvements for the mark III.... On the other hand, if I get the 5d mark III, still have to wait for at least 1 year...... 

Should I wait for the coming announcement before I buy? When will the announcement be?

What do you guys think?

Thank you all!


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## awinphoto (Jun 11, 2011)

Man I know how you feel. I'm 1-2 months away from being ready to pull the trigger on the 5d... If rumors are to be believed, the Mark III should be announced or pretty darn near, however rumors are rumors so don't base your entire livelihood on a rumor if you need the camera now. I myself can keep using my 7d until the 5d mIII is announced/released. If you don't have any other camera get the Mark II but if can wait, thatd be my advise


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## haponat (Jun 11, 2011)

thanks man for the advise.... i think i will wait for a couple of months more before making any moves... because i don't want to regret of getting the mark ii when a new one comes out... and it's not cheap that i could just replace it immediately....


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## Orangutan (Jun 11, 2011)

*Re: "Buy Now or Wait"*

This question comes up all the time, and the answer is pretty much the same. It would be great if CR Guy would post a short article addressing the standard considerations, like:


Is it for paying work or fun?
Are you planning to use "it" for a specific event that sets your timeline?
If it's for a specific event, can you rent something now, and buy later?
Do you already have something to use in the interim?
Have you thought about buying something used now, and the new model later?
Even after "it" is officially announced, it could be months before your copy gets to you.
What have I missed here?


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## awinphoto (Jun 11, 2011)

*Re: "Buy Now or Wait"*

All good points. I myself use my cameras for both professional work and personal. I've got my 7d to tide me over so I'm in no critical rush. I'd love to have it by the fall for a few weddings however I've got access to cps gear if needed. As I said to him prior, if he has other means and this is more of a non critical "splurge" or want to "upgrade", then wait but if he needs it now then do what he needs to do




Orangutan said:


> This question comes up all the time, and the answer is pretty much the same. It would be great if CR Guy would post a short article addressing the standard considerations, like:
> 
> 
> Is it for paying work or fun?
> ...


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## awinphoto (Jun 11, 2011)

Now do keep in mind... As I posted in another thread, the 1ds has been delayed past it's anticipated announcement/release date, so there's always that chance the 5d may be delayed as well. However since the 5d is a cashcow for canon, they may have more incentive to pump this out quicker than the 1ds. Or not... Good ol supply and demand


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## seven10 (Jun 11, 2011)

I have also been asking myself the same thing for a couple months. I had a 50D originally and I wanted to upgrade right to the 5D in April, but then I started following the rumors more and trying to hold out. The other thing was that the company I work for purchased a 7D to supplement our arsenal of 5D's and after hands on time with that, I really couldn't see myself buying an MkII. At this point I'd be happy if the MkIII is essentially a 7D with a full frame sensor.. since field of view is what I miss most from the 5D. Until then, I'll keep shooting primarily on the 7D.


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## aldvan (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm ecstatic about my 5DII. Since I'm quite deluded by my backup 7D, I've decided to sell it and buy a second 5D. The expected 5DIII is spoiling my decision too, but in my situation, I think that waiting should be the right choice...


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## DavidRiesenberg (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm pretty much in the same boat, only with a 5D MK1 and while I am not making a living out of photography per se, I'm using it to supplement my work in 3D. So while I don't really NEED an upgrade, some of the quirks in the 5D are starting to bother me, especially compared to rentals 5D MK2s and 7Ds that I found myself using when I needed to shoot some videos. 

Anyway, finally I decided to buy a 7D now and probably get the 5D MK3 sometime next year. My reasoning was that while I could wait a couple of months for the new 5D to come out, it 1) Might not really come so quickly and B) I'll probably won't lay money down to preorder it as I'll want to read some full reviews first. That obviously means I will have to wait for a regular or semi-regular stock and that probably means sometime well into 2012.


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## kirillica (Jun 11, 2011)

I was waiting for 5dmIII for half a year and enjoy 5dmII for another half a hear


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## DJL329 (Jun 11, 2011)

Haponat,

Just wait for the *5D Mark III* to come out ... and then buy my *5D Mark II*. ;D

DJL


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## Heidrun (Jun 11, 2011)

DJL329 said:


> Haponat,
> 
> Just wait for the *5D Mark III* to come out ... and then buy my *5D Mark II*. ;D
> 
> DJL



Thats right. But i also want a 5D . but im gonna wait until i see what mk III can do on high iso and MP. If its smashing good at iso 12800 and have about 30 mp. Then im gonna buy the mk III


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## spaceheat (Jun 11, 2011)

I vote for getting the Mark 2 when the Mark 3 comes out as well. You will have to wait another year or two to insure that you don't get a lemon for a camera anyways. Canon is notorious for releasing cameras that don't focus right or have other QC issues that need time for them to sort out. The end of a product cycle is the best time to buy a camera IMO.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 11, 2011)

Heidrun said:


> but im gonna wait until i see what mk III can do on high iso and MP. If its smashing good at iso 12800 and have about 30 mp. Then im gonna buy the mk III



If you want that, you'll be waiting for the 5D Mark IV, at least.


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## epsiloneri (Jun 11, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Heidrun said:
> 
> 
> > but im gonna wait until i see what mk III can do on high iso and MP. If its smashing good at iso 12800 and have about 30 mp. Then im gonna buy the mk III
> ...



And more strongly stated, forever.


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## awinphoto (Jun 12, 2011)

I guess that's how you define smashing good. . With technology these days and the rumoured digic 5 processor perhaps it could be quite useable.


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## nlrela (Jun 12, 2011)

Well overhere (Switzerland) there seems nothing to choice at the moment ...... MKIII not yet released, MKII completely sold out and not to get anymore (at least for the moment).


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## arioch82 (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm in about the same situation but I'm thinking of buying the 7d just for the focus system... 
I don't have any urgent need, I own a 500d (my first srl bought about an year and half ago) and I would love to go fullframe so I'm waiting for the 5d Mk3...

what do you think it will be it's price when it'll be out? over 2k? 
do they usually keep the price of the previous model?


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## sb (Jun 14, 2011)

Just as a side-note, I'm not sure if price is a factor for any of you guys who are debating Mk2 or Mk3, but there is no way that Mk3 will be anywhere near the current price of the Mk2. I think the price differential will be at least $1000 (think back to the original price of Mk2). 

I think a good, price conscious interim solution is a used 7D (that is, if you're itching to buy something now). Then sell it when you're ready to buy the Mk3, you'll lose $300-$400 on it, but it's not the end of the world considering you'll have something to keep you busy for a year.


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## arioch82 (Jun 14, 2011)

sb said:


> Just as a side-note, I'm not sure if price is a factor for any of you guys who are debating Mk2 or Mk3, but there is no way that Mk3 will be anywhere near the current price of the Mk2. I think the price differential will be at least $1000 (think back to the original price of Mk2).
> 
> I think a good, price conscious interim solution is a used 7D (that is, if you're itching to buy something now). Then sell it when you're ready to buy the Mk3, you'll lose $300-$400 on it, but it's not the end of the world considering you'll have something to keep you busy for a year.



what was the original price of the Mk2?
what kind of range are we talking about?

sorry for the stupid question... it's been only an year since i've started this expensive hobby


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## sb (Jun 14, 2011)

arioch82, I bought the Mk2 in Toronto, Canada a month after it came out, and I paid $3300 + tax (13%) - so about $3700 all in. It was worth every penny though. That camera paid itself off many, many times over the years and I plan to continue to use it as a backup body when Mk3 comes out.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2011)

arioch82 said:


> sb said:
> 
> 
> > Just as a side-note, I'm not sure if price is a factor for any of you guys who are debating Mk2 or Mk3, but there is no way that Mk3 will be anywhere near the current price of the Mk2. I think the price differential will be at least $1000 (think back to the original price of Mk2).
> ...



It's a very good question, and honestly I have no idea what sb means... The 5D launched with an MSRP of $3299, and the 5DII launched with an MSRP of $2699, $600 cheaper than the original. Since I somehow doubt sb is suggesting that a 5DIII will be $1000 _cheaper_ than the 5DII, I admit - I'm confused...



sb said:


> arioch82, I bought the Mk2 in Toronto, Canada a month after it came out, and I paid $3300 + tax (13%) - so about $3700 all in.



Maybe you paid too much?  Actually, the US/CAN$ exchange rate at the time of the 5DII launch was averaging around 1:1.25, meaning if you paid CAN$3300, that was pretty much the list price in US$, i.e. $2700.


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## WarStreet (Jun 14, 2011)

arioch82 said:


> what do you think it will be it's price when it'll be out? over 2k?
> do they usually keep the price of the previous model?



If there will be no change in the cameras category, the 5DIII launch price should be similar to the 5DII launch price. Exchange rate may have a role on the price too. For cameras, there is more chance they decrease rather increase in price.


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## sb (Jun 14, 2011)

Neuroanatomist, I think it depends on where you live and when you bought it exactly. The MSRP had no relation to reality when the camera was released here in Canada. Also I think that the CDN $ was crapshoot back then. In fact I didnt see Mk2 anywhere near the MSRP for at least a year and a half after the release. 

Even today the best Mk2 price I can find in Toronto right now is this which is slightly less than the "MSRP":
http://www.adencamera.com/product-overviewer.asp?ProdID=2451&Category=6


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## awinphoto (Jun 14, 2011)

If you wanted to buy from adorama and bhphotovideo, they were at MSRP but you had backorders galore and or people buying them and posting them on ebay at a higher price... At local stores they tend to raise prices to cover costs and add state tax so that could be quite accurate pricing depending on your store. At my local store they sold them relatively at MSRP for the initial rush (because the MSRP was widely known) but after the initial craze passed and they got enough to actually keep some in stock, they raised their prices accordingly. I'd expect the MkIII to be roughly $2699-2899. Hopefully they'll still have the 24-105L kit because that's what I will be saving for.


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## sb (Jun 14, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> arioch82 said:
> 
> 
> > sb said:
> ...



... Oh yeah, did I mention that we get pwned on taxes over here?  When MK3 comes out, I'm off to Buffalo to load up


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2011)

WarStreet said:


> Exchange rate may have a role on the price too. For cameras, there is more chance they decrease rather increase in price.



Honestly, I think 5DIII pricing is a crapshoot at this point. Historically, the 1Ds series price at launch has been identical ($8K) for all three of the cameras. For the 1D series, prices went down $500 from the II to the IIN, then up for the III ($500 more than the II, so $1000 more than the IIN), then up yet again for the IV (another $500 increase over the III). 

So, based on that, I'd expect the launch price of a 5DIII to be somewhere between the original and the MkII, likely around $3K, maybe $2900. But you're also correct that the exchange rate for the yen is a factor when they set the MSRP.


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## Martin (Jun 14, 2011)

I just had the same problem as probably a lot of us now,buy now or wait ? I have decided to buy now a 5dii, and other canon stuff, cause I switched from Nikon. In worst case scenario i will have a second body when a new 5D III is released, hawever I honestly dont belive it will happen before 2012. 

Guys, I really dont understand the problem with avilabilty of current model, I live and buy in Poland and have no problems to get the camera in 2 days. Anyway, now i become a canon shooter, so let me say Hi to all of you. Hope i can live with AF, and the image quality will compensate that lack.


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## nocturne (Jun 14, 2011)

Same thing here in Iceland... no problem to get your hands on a 5DMKII...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2011)

nocturne said:


> Same thing here in Iceland... no problem to get your hands on a 5DMKII...



Here in the US, availability of the 5DII is spotty - the three major online retailers (B&H, Adorama, and Amazon) are all sold out (although there are 3rd party vendors with stock selling on Amazon at outrageous prices). All of them get periodic shipments, fill backorders, and usually have some left to sell...but then they sell out again.

Still, for anyone considering the 'buy 5DII now or wait for 5DIII' question, I'd give my usual advice - if you need/want it now and can afford it now, buy it now. Despite rumors to the contrary, I don't believe Canon will release a 5DIII before they release a 1DsIV, and the latter has not even been announced yet.


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## mreco99 (Jun 14, 2011)

ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.


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## bikersbeard (Jun 14, 2011)

your not the only one, the D800 may be here by october..


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2011)

mreco99 said:


> ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.



Is that because Nikon has released a new prosumer FF camera more recently than Canon has? Oh, wait, the D700 is actually a little older than the 5DII. Or is it because canonrumors.com says 2012 for the 5DIII, while nikonrumors.com says late 2011 for the D800, and nikonrumors.com is _sooooo_ much more accurate?


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## EYEONE (Jun 14, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> mreco99 said:
> 
> 
> > ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.
> ...



+1

I get so annoyed when people talk about switching. As if Nikon has made any announcements...


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## awinphoto (Jun 14, 2011)

EYEONE said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > mreco99 said:
> ...



What people dont understand is that Canon realizes people are more or less, lazy and love to gripe. The camera could have 1 feature missing it will be posted all over the internet as the worst camera ever as sales soar. People love the idea of jumping over but in reality very few does, and in this day in age, most manufacturers have closed the gaps so there is more parody in camera manufacturers and quality. So unless they swapped over, took the hit in the initial investment, and upgraded cameras at the same time, they really wouldn't be shooting with a much better camera than they would be using now. Just relax, be patient, and miracles do come true, right?


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## ystasino (Jun 17, 2011)

mreco99 said:


> ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.



The advice I got when digital photography was starting, and seems even truer now than it did then, was to skip at least one generation of electronics, before investing in a new system.

If you're not invested in Nikon or Canon then do yourself a favor and buy the lenses which are being updated. Cameras come and go, lenses are improving only marginally if at all. If you have enough money not to care about this then buy both.

In your case I would wait for the 5DIII.


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## UncleFester (Jun 18, 2011)

mreco99 said:


> ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.



Go for it. ;D I've thought about going Nikon many times but keeping my Canon gear. But, I've also considered Leica.


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## zerotiu (Jun 18, 2011)

ystasino said:


> mreco99 said:
> 
> 
> > ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.
> ...



it seems i will follow your opinion. Buying L lenses and wait for 5d3 . When it shows up, my gears are complete 8).


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2011)

zerotiu said:


> it seems i will follow your opinion. Buying L lenses and wait for 5d3 . When it shows up, my gears are complete 8).



Until the 5DIV, that is.....


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## Admin US West (Jun 19, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> zerotiu said:
> 
> 
> > it seems i will follow your opinion. Buying L lenses and wait for 5d3 . When it shows up, my gears are complete 8).
> ...



Yup, I'm making a list of features rumored to be in the 5D MK IV now. I'll be able to use most of the ones now rumored for the 5d MK III as well as add a few more like digic VI and 60 mp.

We can post them the day the 5D MK III is announced, I'll just strike out the one or two that actually made it into the 5D MK III.


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## chrismartinez.co.uk (Jun 21, 2011)

i would like to go full frame ASAP too, and i dont really know why im holding out for the mkIII...but i am

i have a 7D at the moment and the only real advantage of the 5DII over the 7D seems to be that it's full frame (i apprecaite that's a pretty big advantage  )

im sure im missing some others things too but the 5DII seems like a small step backwards in some areas vs the 7D (for my requirements), which i probably why im holding out, plus im not sure i really need to go full frame yet, but would just like to.

i guess that's what it comes down to, if you need a great (FF) camera now then the mkII is a great camera, if you can wait then wait (and wait...and wait)


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## jeremymerriam (Jun 21, 2011)

mreco99 said:


> ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.



A good photographer isn't the guy in line always waiting for the newest, greatest technology. A good photographer is someone who can shoot with any old camera and still make great pictures.

Maybe you should stop worrying about camera updates and the company to go with and start focusing on just shooting to become a better and better photographer?


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## Ghostdive (Jun 21, 2011)

Thats correct. Last time I get better pictures with my old 400D as another with his 7D. It has also a lot todo how you know you camera.
And on top I forgott my 24-105 and had only the 70-300 
But think also about an replacement to do the noise(you see it at iso200 starting) and focus-speed in low-light.
But the most time, it works as expected. So I can wait.


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## steven63 (Jun 21, 2011)

> A good photographer isn't the guy in line always waiting for the newest, greatest technology. A good photographer is someone who can shoot with any old camera and still make great pictures.



True enough. But I don't know many that would pass up the opportunity if given the chance to shoot with the latest technology for something 3 -4 years old.

I just bought the Mii yesterday - because it was in town (only one I saw) and the price was back to 'normal'.

Playing with it last night made me wonder why I waited. I have a 7d and thought it was good enough until I looked at the files from the Mii.


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## gene_can_sing (Jun 21, 2011)

All I know is, keep buying 5D2, and it's a safe bet that the 5D3 will take longer and longer to come out. Simple laws of corporate economics. No reason to update if the current product (which is about 3 to 4 years old depending on the camera) still sells well.


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## steven63 (Jun 21, 2011)

> All I know is, keep buying 5D2, and it's a safe bet that the 5D3 will take longer and longer to come out. Simple laws of corporate economics. No reason to update if the current product (which is about 3 to 4 years old depending on the camera) still sells well.



While I would agree with that IF the company in question had a monopoly over the market, I can't agree with it here. In order for this to be true both Nikon and Sony would have to be in the same boat. But even then would any one of them be willing to take the chance that the other two are content relying on old technology? I'm convinced that all top end camera manufacturers are committed to providing the best, latest, and greatest they have to offer (at price points) in order to continue to be relevant. 

THAT is a simple law of corporate economics.


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## aldvan (Jun 22, 2011)

steven63 said:


> > Playing with it last night made me wonder why I waited. I have a 7d and thought it was good enough until I looked at the files from the Mii.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the point. You can speak about AF system, DR, S/N etc... but try to compare, visually on a big monitor, 7D and 5DMkII files and any doubt will disappear. I have a 5DMkII and a 7D, but my strong decision is to sell the second and go FF with both my bodies. The only reason tha holds me to buy a second 5DMkII is not to put money on a second body that is going to be replaced, so just a psycocommercial reason. But to have to 5DMkII perfectly identical should be a great kit...


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## UncleFester (Jun 22, 2011)

chrismartinez.co.uk said:


> i have a 7D at the moment and the only real advantage of the 5DII over the 7D seems to be that it's full frame (i apprecaite that's a pretty big advantage  )



Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance (simply amazing) .


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## dr croubie (Jun 22, 2011)

UncleFester said:


> Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance (simply amazing) .



Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance + FF - 8fps - â‚¬700 - AF - 60fps video - pixel density (i think it's been proven a 7d takes a better long shot than the same lens on a 5d, cropped and up-ressed).

all depends on where your priorities lie. the extra â‚¬700 in that equation swung it for me, or i'd have gone a 5d2...


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## UncleFester (Jun 22, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> UncleFester said:
> 
> 
> > Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance (simply amazing) .
> ...



I'll agree that the 5D is missing the 60fps, which I could actually use. But, what do you mean by a "better long shot"? More reach for the 1.6x with 18 megapixels? That's understandable. 

I'd get a 7d in a heartbeat if I thought the IQ was at least as good as (in all situations) the 5D II. But I've seen nothing that proves that in real shooting (wildlife for me). 

I'm not knocking the 7D as I'm sure it's a great cam. I went through thousands of images weighing whether I should get a the 7D over the 5D II. And I knew I was giving up some hi-tech features by choosing the 5D. But Image quality was the biggest deciding factor. Esp in low light.


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## dr croubie (Jun 22, 2011)

UncleFester said:


> But, what do you mean by a "better long shot"? More reach for the 1.6x with 18 megapixels? That's understandable.



Basically, take any lens (although it makes more sense with a long/telephoto). put it on the 7D, take a shot.
put the same lens on a 5d2, take the same shot at the same iso/f/shutter.
crop the edges off the 5d2 shot so that they have the same framing.
increase the resolution of the 5d2 shot to the 18MP of the 7d shot, and compare.
the 7D has better IQ (i'm sure i've seen this tested, but can't find it right now).


note: *not* the same test as this one, that's testing a lens+body combination to get the exact same shot. my test above is a "you already own a lens, what body is better?" question...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> note: *not* the same test as this one, that's testing a lens+body combination to get the exact same shot. my test above is a "you already own a lens, what body is better?" question...



Actually, I did that flavor of the comparison in this other one - same scene, same distance, 7D vs. 5DII, using both the 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS and the the 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS @ 400mm. Some reprocessing of the RAW files by others confirms that the 7D is the winner in that scenario. 

Sure, if you can get closer to the subject or use a longer lens, instead of having to crop, the 5DII will produce better IQ. But that's from a reductionist standpoint - the IQ will be better assuming the 5DII can accurately focus and track the subject if motion is involved, and that the frame rate is adequate to capture 'the moment'. Here's a shot with my 7D that would have been a real challenge for a 5DII, perhaps too much of a challenge: 




EOS 7D, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM @ 400mm, 1/1600 s, f/6.3, ISO 1600


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## steven63 (Jun 22, 2011)

Both the 7d and 5dMii are excellent cameras that serve different purposes. If you are lucky enough to own both, you've pretty well covered any situation where you wouldn't otherwise get the shot and you'll be happy for years.

Alternatively, you could buy the 1dsMiii and the 1dMiv to cover your bases and spend 3 times as much. Personally, I'd rather spend the savings on lenses.

1dsMiii = 1dmii sensor (some would argue the mii sensor is a bit better).

1dMiv > 7d with two more fps and a little bit better AF system but NOT $US3500.00 more.

I know both of these flagships offer other benefits but unless you really, really, REALLY need them the 5dMii and 7d are more than up to the challenge.

With all of that said if the 5dMiii (when released) has anything close to the abilities of the 7d with FF I'd consider getting rid of my 5dMii and 7d for it.

Just my 2c.


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## dwward (Jun 22, 2011)

haponat said:


> Here is my situation,
> If i am going to buy the 5d mark II now, i still have to wait for a month at least because all stocks are out currently....



A quick check at Amazon indicates they have both the body only and the kit in stock and can deliver tomorrow if you want to pay the extra shipping.


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## aldvan (Jun 22, 2011)

steven63 said:


> Both the 7d and 5dMii are excellent cameras that serve different purposes. If you are lucky enough to own both, you've pretty well covered any situation where you wouldn't otherwise get the shot and you'll be happy for years.


Unfortunately, until now, in MY real world, always I had to regret to have the right lens on the 7D instead of the 5DMkII...


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## gene_can_sing (Jun 22, 2011)

steven63 said:


> > All I know is, keep buying 5D2, and it's a safe bet that the 5D3 will take longer and longer to come out. Simple laws of corporate economics. No reason to update if the current product (which is about 3 to 4 years old depending on the camera) still sells well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Honestly, do you really think Canon, Nikon and Sony are just going to release their best technology the moment it surfaces? "Committed to providing the best, latest, and greatest they have to offer (at price points) in order to continue to be relevant." That is so completely naive. The corporate game is called making money - and that is the bottom line, not providing the consumer with the best technology the moment it comes out. If that were the case, the current crop of cameras would be far more advanced.

For computers that might be true, but in the camera world there are only a handful of manufactures, and even fewer major players (basically Canon and Nikon, and sort-of Sony). They can afford to sit on tech for a lot longer than say... Apple or Microsoft who have numerous competitors.

Also, Canon knows that once you've invested heavily into their system, you are at their mercy and they do use that to their advantage. It's not like Dell, where if you don't like the computer, you can basically just toss it and there are 100 different identical computers out there. With Canon, you're stuck with their lenses, so you have to keep buying their bodies. And that also allows them to sit on their products and milk you for a lot longer.

So yes, keep buying 5d2, and the 5d3 will take a lot longer to surface. Canon is not stupid in the money making game and no, they are not here to give you the best for your buck. That is why the models are tiered.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2011)

gene_can_sing said:


> Honestly, do you really think Canon, Nikon and Sony are just going to release their best technology the moment it surfaces? "Committed to providing the best, latest, and greatest they have to offer (at price points) in order to continue to be relevant." That is so completely naive. The corporate game is called making money - and that is the bottom line, not providing the consumer with the best technology the moment it comes out. If that were the case, the current crop of cameras would be far more advanced....They can afford to sit on tech for a lot longer...



Does that explain why Canon has released a new Rebel/xxxD camera every year, like clockwork, for the past several years? With the exception of the most recent release, each has featured a new sensor. Each has received the latest advancements (e.g. wireless flash control in the T3i/600D).


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## dr croubie (Jun 22, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Does that explain why Canon has released a new Rebel/xxxD camera every year, like clockwork, for the past several years? With the exception of the most recent release, each has featured a new sensor. Each has received the latest advancements (e.g. wireless flash control in the T3i/600D).



maybe it's the shops i look at, but they seem to keep lots of old models in stock a lot longer. my local shop has the 500/550/600 all in stock, it even marks the 500 and 550 bodies as "popular", the 600 as "new".
(but it only has the 1100, not 1000, 60 not 50, and no 1ds3 anymore.)

anyway, releasing new models every year in the xxxD line makes much better marketing sense, noone's really going to upgrade with less than a 150-difference i reckon (ie, 400D or 450D-600D makes upgrade sense, 500d-600d makes less sense), so it really doesn't matter if they repeat the sensor or whatever in a few models.

and throwing the latest sensor into the xxxD lines doesn't cannibalise much from the higher lines, even from the xxD (except those who bought the 550d before the 60d came out, like my sister). i'd be guessing that people going the 60d want a bit better quality, and the 550/600d are generally beginners not wanting to invest too much (or those who don't have the cash for 60d anyway).
the manufacturing benefits of just throwing in the latest sensor are huge, one piece for a lot of products, with no extra r&d costs, the marketing benefits of a low-cost 18mp camera far outweigh the tiny loss they'll make from potential 60d-buyers...


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## steven63 (Jun 22, 2011)

> So yes, keep buying 5d2, and the 5d3 will take a lot longer to surface. Canon is not stupid in the money making game and no, they are not here to give you the best for your buck. That is why the models are tiered.



Models are tiered to provide customers with options and to help a company diversify so that if one segment tanks the other will hopefully keep your company afloat. The genious in this strategy is that your upper segment feeds your lower segment. So research dollars are spent to 'keep feeding the monster' which is the corporation.

Developing technology at the high end only to withhold it because sales are strong in that segment while hoping your competitors do the same thing results in a company that soon goes out of business.

Holding back technology slows down the cascading affect to your lower product lines. Holding back technology that you've spent millions (billions?) developing and hoping that your competitors are going to use the same business model is suicide. 

The only companies that develop technology so that they can lock it in a dark room and not make it available are the companies that never see the light of day: the model is poor and not economically viable.

I am confident that had there been no earthquake or tsunami in Japan you would have seen an announcement for the 5dMiii by now. Or does anyone think that's just a coincidence, and what they are really doing is holding back technology because of strong sales on a product they can't fill the shelves with BECAUSE of the production delays due to the earthquake?

I mean really think about that for a minute.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2011)

steven63 said:


> Holding back technology slows down the cascading affect to your lower product lines. Holding back technology that you've spent millions (billions?) developing and hoping that your competitors are going to use the same business model is suicide.



The idea is return on investment, and if there's too long a lag between investment and return, that's bad. Very bad. Speaking from personal experience, that's one big reason the pharmaceutical industry is under pressure - invest $1B in R&D, wait 10 years, and hope your drug gets approved and achieves blockbuster status. It's not really a viable business model, which is why there's so much M&A (aka cannibalism) occurring across the industry.



gene_can_sing said:


> The corporate game is called making money - and that is the bottom line



Exactly - the 5DII is still selling well (or so we think, but that's an assumption based on a complete lack of data, AFAIK). But, let's assume it's true. If Canon starts producing 5DIII's instead of 5DII's, they're not using additional resources for production, merely shifting resoures. If they have a 5DIII ready for release, then the R&D money is already spent, and they're not realizing any increase in net present value from it. If they sit on a 5DIII and continue producing the 5DII, then:


people considering buying a 5DII would buy a 5DII

If they release a 5DIII and discontinue the 5DII:


people considering buying a 5DII would buy a 5DIII instead
people waiting for a 5DIII would buy a 5DIII
people with a 5DII would upgrade to a 5DIII

Logic would indicate that since the former is a subset of the latter, the latter must be a larger population. That means more sales, and more money...and as you correctly stated, that's the whole point of the 'corporate game'.


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## steven63 (Jun 22, 2011)

> If they sit on a 5DIII and continue producing the 5DII, then:
> 
> 
> â€¢people considering buying a 5DII would buy a 5DII



Exactly. Canon will also consider the ramifications of sitting on technology that Nikon would release. Certainly, Canon photographers who have tons of cash invested in lenses wouldn't switch BUT...potentially NEW photographers coming onto the scene would look at who offers the best products...and if all Canon offers up is a camera with 4-5 year old technology while Nikon just released something far better by not playing the game Canon was playing....

If Nikon were to jump way out in front because Canon sat back on 5dMii sales the results of that decision could be potentially devistating simply because they would likely miss out on the bulk of those new photographers. Remember, Canon can't ignore the new photographers and assume that recycling their current customer base will sustain them.

It really isn't a game Canon wants to play. They'll release their best stuff when their best stuff is ready to be released and not a minute later.


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## chuckjr (Jun 23, 2011)

*WAIT for 5d MkIII*

My vote is to wait for the mark III. 

I sold my Mark II last week because after a few months of using my 7D I became increasingly frustrated with the mark II for stills (I don't shoot video). 
The focus points on the 5D are a joke compared to the 7D and I tended to waste a lot of frame real estate out of fear of using the waker focus points. This was my biggest grip with the mark I too. 

My goal is to buy a second 7D (I need a backup as this is what I do for work) and sell it when the mark III comes out. I know the 7D will hold it's value compared to a Mark II once the new version comes out. 

I really miss the full frame but if I need full frame for a job I'll suck it up and rent a mark II. My fingers are crossed that we get an announcement in the next couple months.


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## UncleFester (Jun 23, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sure, if you can get closer to the subject or use a longer lens, instead of having to crop, the 5DII will produce better IQ. But that's from a reductionist standpoint - the IQ will be better assuming the 5DII can accurately focus and track the subject if motion is involved, and that the frame rate is adequate to capture 'the moment'. Here's a shot with my 7D that would have been a real challenge for a 5DII, perhaps too much of a challenge:



That's just it. I've had to learn the art of sneaking up on wildlife this past year and praying they hold still. But,for me, it's been more to do with how to make the most out of a full-frame (scene) rather than just chopping out what looks good.


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## aldvan (Jun 23, 2011)

*Re: WAIT for 5d MkIII*



chuckjr said:


> I sold my Mark II last week because after a few months of using my 7D I became increasingly frustrated with the mark II for stills (I don't shoot video).
> The focus points on the 5D are a joke compared to the 7D and I tended to waste a lot of frame real estate out of fear of using the waker focus points. This was my biggest grip with the mark I too.
> 
> My goal is to buy a second 7D (I need a backup as this is what I do for work) and sell it when the mark III comes out. I know the 7D will hold it's value compared to a Mark II once the new version comes out.



what a pity! we could exchange our cameras! I'm quite disappointed by the fact that my 5D MkII is incomparably better than my 7D and if a MkIII wasn't on the final approach, I will trade my 7D for a seconfd 5D MkII body!


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2011)

*Re: WAIT for 5d MkIII*



aldvan said:


> I'm quite disappointed by the fact that my 5D MkII is incomparably better than my 7D



"Incomparably better?" Ever tried to shoot a bird in flight or a toddler running towards you with AI Servo on your 5DII? Tried shooting small birds from a substantial distance, without the benefit of a 600mm lens? Tried capturing 'the moment' in a quick action series with less than 4 fps? I have, and I've been disappointed with the 5DII in those situations. Yes, from a pure IQ standpoint the 5DII's sensor is better - but that's only true if the rest of the system allows you to get the shot, and there are situations where the 5DII just doesn't make that easy. IMO, it's about using the right tool for the job - I suspect Canon feels that way, too, and that's why even at the top end they offer two flavors of the 1-series, geared toward different primary applications.


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## meinthai (Jun 24, 2011)

I've been waiting for 6 months to upgrade my (antique) 350D to a full frame sensor. I've got a trip to Mongolia coming up and desperately wanted a better camera. I just brought a 5D Mk1 on eBay to see me through. So happy with the improved IQ over the 350D, and the full size sensor .

Got it in USA for $1,000 + postage, but I live in Thailand where they're going for $1,350 2nd hand. So I think that when the Mkiii comes out the price in Thailand will drop to what I paid in the USA and I should make my money back, or at least come close  

Got a good deal on 16-35 Mk2 also


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## aldvan (Jun 24, 2011)

*Re: WAIT for 5d MkIII*



neuroanatomist said:


> aldvan said:
> 
> 
> > I'm quite disappointed by the fact that my 5D MkII is incomparably better than my 7D
> ...



neuroanatomist, you are right and I'm sorry... Whenever I posted my disappointment about 7D vs 5DMkII, I always wrote 'in MY range', and this time I forgot to do so... The situations you presented are not my situations, at least not my usual situations. As I reported many times, for my typical situations (architecture, landscape and macros), I focus with just the central point, to be able to choose the exact point to be sharp. I'm not saying, for that reason, that the 7D is not a beautiful and better camera, in its range, but that in a lot of situations the quality of 5DMkII overperforms the 7D's...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 24, 2011)

*Re: WAIT for 5d MkIII*



aldvan said:


> for my typical situations (architecture, landscape and macros), I focus with just the central point, to be able to choose the exact point to be sharp. I'm not saying, for that reason, that the 7D is not a beautiful and better camera, in its range, but that in a lot of situations the quality of 5DMkII overperforms the 7D's...



Absolutely - and that's why I use my 5DII for portraits, landscapes, architecture, and macro work.


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## docrender (Jun 24, 2011)

I think Canon somehow decide to completely move to mass-product market instead of PRO. Basically it means they will shrink down most of the innovation in PRO area. Models we have now could be most advanced DSLR - cameras they ever made. We definitely wont see anything significantly new from Canon this year related to High End products.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 25, 2011)

docrender said:


> I think Canon somehow decide to completely move to mass-product market instead of PRO. Basically it means they will shrink down most of the innovation in PRO area. Models we have now could be most advanced DSLR - cameras they ever made. We definitely wont see anything significantly new from Canon this year related to High End products.



Lots of people complain that Canon is ignoring the consumer lenses and concentrating on the high end pro lenses. The new 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/2.8, 500mm f/4, 600mm f/4, 70-300mm L, and the 8mm-15mm L are all PRO lenses and recently released or announced. There is allso a 200-400mmL zoom in development.

While all this happened, Canon changed the paint job on the 18-55mm IS and the 55-250mm IS consumer lenses.


As far as new bodies, lots of people have spotted test models of new high end cameras being tested in the field. I do not think that all of this means they are abandoning the PRO market, just the opposite.


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## docrender (Jun 25, 2011)

Well, they definitely NOT abandoning PRO market  They just don't care much about it! 

Where is my damn 5D mark III or NEX FS - 100 competitor !? 
No matter what it will be released next day after I buy 5D mark II ha - ha - ha!


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## chuckjr (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: WAIT for 5d MkIII*

I wouldn't call them (5DMII and 7D) equals. plus I'll have $500 in my pocket after buying a 7D. 

don't get me wrong there are a lot of features the 5D is better than the 7D - for me the color and ISO isn't on the same level as the 7D. But the focusing issues on the 5D are what prompted the sale of the 7D. 




aldvan said:


> chuckjr said:
> 
> 
> > I sold my Mark II last week because after a few months of using my 7D I became increasingly frustrated with the mark II for stills (I don't shoot video).
> ...


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## chuckjr (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: WAIT for 5d MkIII*

Before i bought the 5DMII my previous bodies were a 30D and 5DMI, so up until i used the 7D and it opened up my eyes to what focusing should be like i didn't know better. I was beginning to think i needed a 1D series body but it looks like canon finally listened to all of us that don't need a 1D series camera. Fingers crossed for the 5DMIII. 

color and clarity wise (not too mention the loss of frame "real estate") the 5dMII produced a better quality photo. But for me when i miss a shot because of focus, none of that matters. 



neuroanatomist said:


> aldvan said:
> 
> 
> > for my typical situations (architecture, landscape and macros), I focus with just the central point, to be able to choose the exact point to be sharp. I'm not saying, for that reason, that the 7D is not a beautiful and better camera, in its range, but that in a lot of situations the quality of 5DMkII overperforms the 7D's...
> ...


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## IllegalFun (Jul 25, 2011)

I am sitting here waiting...
I could buy a 5dMk2 but I need to sell my 17-55 f/2.8 IS, as it is an EF-S lens...

my problem is that I can't afford to actually replace that lens!
I am now stuck, as I have started reading rumours.... uh-oh the slippery slope is waiting!
my problem is that my head is telling me, wait until you can afford a complete replacement 
(5DMk2 + 17-40L + 50 f/1.4) 
but... my head then tells me you know a 5DMk3 could be announced tomorrow and you could end up kicking yourself!

I am now tempted to switch my 17-55 for a 17-40L in preparation and swap my 50 f/1.8 for the f/1.4 USM
but again my head tells me... they might release a lens with the 5D3

Arrrgh, this is killing me! I am turning schizophrenic, next I will be hopping around and talking about "My Preciousssss!"


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## dstppy (Jul 25, 2011)

IllegalFun said:


> I am sitting here waiting...
> I could buy a 5dMk2 but I need to sell my 17-55 f/2.8 IS, as it is an EF-S lens...
> 
> my problem is that I can't afford to actually replace that lens!
> ...


Like everyone says: buy it if you need it. Money-wise unless something crazy happens that causes tings to skyrocket, the more mileage you can get out of an existing body, the better off you are.

Right now does happen to be a good time to sell the 50mm f1.8; if you were careful about catching a deal/watching the price, you could probably pick up the f1.4 ~$375 -- watch Amazon/Newegg for promos etc.

The only thing you can really do wrong at this point (since you're determined to go FF) is to buy any more EF-S lenses . . .


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## -zero- (Jul 25, 2011)

IllegalFun said:


> I am sitting here waiting...
> I could buy a 5dMk2 but I need to sell my 17-55 f/2.8 IS, as it is an EF-S lens...
> 
> my problem is that I can't afford to actually replace that lens!
> ...



Hi,

I might not entirely understand your situation but the 17-40L on a FF will be a poor substitute for your 17-55 (unless of course you shoot landscapes)

the 5DII can be sold with a 24-105L that will replace your 17-55 more adequately (17-55 on APS-C is equivalent to 27.5-88 on FF)

The 17-40 is an amazing lense but its going to be much wider and have a lot less reach than your 17-55 on aps-c (10.6-25mm)

I hope this helps


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2011)

-zero- said:


> The 17-40 is an amazing lense but its going to be much wider and have a lot less reach than your 17-55 on aps-c (10.6-25mm)





That's not the way it works. You're saying the 17-40mm on APS-C is equivalent to 10.6-25mm (i.e. 17-40 / 1.6)?!? No. Focal length is a property of a lens, independent of the camera, and the numbers printed on the lens are the focal length(s). So a 17-40mm overlaps the 17-55mm for the entire range up to 40mm, i.e. on APS-C the 17-55mm delivers a FoV comparable to 27-88mm on FF, and the 17-40mm delivers a FoV comparable to 27-64mm. 

Personally, I wouldn't call the 17-40mm an amazing lens on FF. It's a landscape lens...decent when stopped down to f/8 - f/11 or so, but wide open it's pretty mushy. I would not recommend the 17-40mm for a crop body.


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## IllegalFun (Jul 25, 2011)

My thinking was that I could get a wide-angle zoom for landscapes, a 50mm prime for low light and wider apertures (f/1.4-f/4) and keep the 70-200 f/4 IS for portraits and longer landscapes...

I am still tempted to get the 24-105 kit though, as it would save me money in the long run...
I am going to have to check out the serious reviews regarding the 17-40L and the 24-105...

does 17-40, 50, 70-200 sound crazy? to me it sounds like it pretty much covers the focal length range for landscapes and architecture...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2011)

IllegalFun said:


> My thinking was that I could get a wide-angle zoom for landscapes, a 50mm prime for low light and wider apertures (f/1.4-f/4) and keep the 70-200 f/4 IS for portraits and longer landscapes...
> 
> I am still tempted to get the 24-105 kit though, as it would save me money in the long run...
> I am going to have to check out the serious reviews regarding the 17-40L and the 24-105...
> ...



17-40 + 50/1.4 + 70-200/4 IS is a great combination if you need the ultrawide angle of the 17-40mm. But the 24-105mm on FF is an excellent lens, and very versatile. 

24mm on FF is wider than 17mm on APS-C, so unless you find yourself wanting to go a lot wider on your APS-C body (e.g. you have/want the EF-S 10-22mm), you might try the 24-105mm. Optically, it's better than the 17-40mm, and the IS is very helpful. Also, if you're buying a new 5DII (and presumably the MkIII as well), the 24-105mm as a kit lens is a great value - $800 for the lens as part of the kit, which is 30% less than the lens alone.


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## IllegalFun (Jul 25, 2011)

Interesting...
I looked into the 17-40, and for landscapes and architecture it is ok (at f/8 to f/16) but for normal use it would be limiting...
and I think the difference between 24mm and 28mm(equiv) is big enough for me!
I am now going to save up for the 5DMk2 with 24-105... 
if I sell my 17-55 + hood for about Â£600 then the 24-105 kit will be the same price as body only...
about Â£1750 which will take a month or two to organise... :'(

Thanks to those who helped, especially_ neuroanatomist_


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## -zero- (Jul 25, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> -zero- said:
> 
> 
> > The 17-40 is an amazing lense but its going to be much wider and have a lot less reach than your 17-55 on aps-c (10.6-25mm)
> ...



I meant that you would need a 10.6-25mm on an aps-c to get the equivalent Field of View of a 17-40 on a FF
thank you for the clarification

the point I was trying to make is that if he buys a 17-40 with a 5DII he will not have the same FoV as his 17-55 on his aps-c camera


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2011)

-zero- said:


> the point I was trying to make is that if he buys a 17-40 with a 5DII he will not have the same FoV as his 17-55 on his aps-c camera



Makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I missed that point becuase I'm used to thinking in terms FF-equivalent, not 'APS-C-equivalent.'

I think anyone who's happy with a 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens on APS-C will be even happier with the 24-105mm f/4L IS on FF - the latter is longer, wider, and faster (in terms of DoF for equivalent subject framing), since the FF equivalent of the 17-55mm f/2.8 is actually 27-88mm f/4.5.


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## Haydn1971 (Jul 25, 2011)

Neuro, could you be kind enough to explain the science behind the loss of aperture on APS-C - I understand the size difference, but generally assumed that a f2.8 would be the same on FF or crop - I've seen you mention this a few times now, but not noticed it said anywhere else.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2011)

Haydn1971 said:


> Neuro, could you be kind enough to explain the science behind the loss of aperture on APS-C - I understand the size difference, but generally assumed that a f2.8 would be the same on FF or crop - I've seen you mention this a few times now, but not noticed it said anywhere else.



Happy to explain. It's not a _real_ loss of aperture - f/2.8 is still f/2.8. The effect on _apparent_ DoF is secondary to the effect on angle of view. For a given focal length, you need to further from the subject with an APS-C camera, compared to getting the same subject framing on a FF camera. DoF increases with increasing distance to subject. Thus, to get a similarly-framed shot on APS-C vs. FF, you'll have a DoF at f/2.8 on the APS-C camera that's equivalent to what you'd get at f/4.5 on a FF camera.

Alternatively, you could compensate for the different sensor size by using a different lens, i.e. a shorter focal length on APS-C, to get the equivalent framing without changing distance. But since focal length also affects DoF (which increases with decreasing focal length), the end result is the same, i.e. 1.3-stops deeper DoF on APS-C for the same subject framing.

There's a nice explanation with some illustrations here. 

Note that there's no effect on exposure - the meter will give you the same reading on FF and APS-C, so you're losing a stop of light with the f/4 lens vs. f/2.8. However, since the FF sensor gathers more total light (same light per unit area, but a larger area), the ISO noise on FF is 1.6x lower (= 1.3 stops), meaning if you need f/2.8 for the shutter speed, on FF you can bump up the ISO to compensate with no penalty. The only thing you lose with the f/4 lens is the activation of the high-precision center AF point.

Hope that helps...


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## Haydn1971 (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes it does, not quite as onerous as I thought I might be, just down to simple maths really !

Thanks !


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## Edwin Herdman (Jul 27, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> The only thing you lose with the f/4 lens is the activation of the high-precision center AF point.


The only thing I have to quibble with in your post is this - of course, the center AF point will still be active, it just won't be "additionally sensitive at f/2.8" as you say. Whether some elements of the unit called an "AF point" don't register the additional light until f/2.8, or whether the whole unit is still in play below f/2.8, is not something I can speak to (the phrase Canon uses here is a bit ambiguous).


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 27, 2011)

Edwin Herdman said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing you lose with the f/4 lens is the activation of the high-precision center AF point.
> ...



Thanks for the clarification - yes, you have a center AF point no matter what lens you use, provided the max aperture is f/5.6 or wider (or even f/6.3, if your 3rd party lens is 'tricking' the camera). Also, the apertures above do not apply to 1-series bodies, where the center AF point is high-precision at f/4 or wider, and requires at least f/8 for standard precision.

It's the 'high-precision' part of the AF point that's not activated, i.e. there are elements of the high-precision center AF point that are f/2.8-sensitive, and other elements that are f/5.6-sensitive. _Which_ elements depends on the camera model. In some older models, the high-precision cross points are a + shape, where one bar (usually the horizontal one, meaning the one sensitive to vertical lines) is f/2.8-sensitive and the other bar is f/5.6-sensitive. The 5DII falls into this category for it's single cross-type AF point (the remaining 8 selectable points are f/5.6-sensitive single-orientation sensors, and 2 of the 6 supplemental non-selectable AF points are also f/2.8-sensitive single orientation points). The 1-series cross-type AF points (e.g. 39 of the 1DIV's 45 AF points) are similar to the center AF point of non-1-series bodies described above. In most newer models (40D up, 7D), the high-precision center AF point is actually an f/2.8-sensitive X-shaped cross-type sensor superimposed onto the f/5.6-sensitive +-shaped cross-type sensor.

Probably more than you wanted to know...


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## Edwin Herdman (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for confirming that - it's pretty much what I had remembered, but not accurately enough to say so precisely. It seems to me that what you said initially is probably as essentially helpful as simply saying what Canon does, that a point becomes "additionally sensitive" - there is still AF over the specific point, but the difference in accuracy and speed can be pretty remarkable when moving from f/2.8 to f/5.6 (for instance).

I'm somewhat curious as to what the design of f/4 sensitive points is. I thought those were only on older camera models, but from DPR's 1D Mark IV review:

"[...] 39 cross-type AF points (up from 19 on the previous model). However, they only behave as cross-type AF points when using a lens with a faster maximum aperture than f/2.8 and when selected manually. [...] With f/4 lenses, only the center point acts as a cross-type point, will all points reduced to horizontal sensitivity when using f/5.6 lenses or slower."

This seems to point to Canon having more than just two different grades of autofocus point, but I expect the cost and complexity of the AF sensor prevents them from making many more gradations possible, especially on cheaper cameras (in which they're still sticking with relatively old AF sensors anyway).


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 27, 2011)

Edwin Herdman said:


> I'm somewhat curious as to what the design of f/4 sensitive points is. I thought those were only on older camera models, but from DPR's 1D Mark IV review:
> 
> "[...] 39 cross-type AF points (up from 19 on the previous model). However, they only behave as cross-type AF points when using a lens with a faster maximum aperture than f/2.8 and when selected manually. [...] With f/4 lenses, only the center point acts as a cross-type point, will all points reduced to horizontal sensitivity when using f/5.6 lenses or slower."



In the 1-series AF sensors, the center point is high-precision cross-type with f/4 lenses, and retains horizontal line sensitivity up to f/8 (meaning you can AF with an f/5.6 lens + 1.4x TC, for example, and that's specific to 1-series bodies).

The rest of the situation with the 1-series AF is a little more complex, and DPR's language doesn't provide much clarity. On the 1DIV, all 39 cross-type points act as cross-type during manual AF point selection; when using automatic AF point selection, only 19 of the 39 cross-type points act as cross-type, the others act as horizontal line-sensitive only. The 38 other (excluding the center point) cross-type AF points are f/2.8-sensitive for vertical lines, and f/5.6-sensitive for horizontal lines. So, with f/2.8 lenses you have cross-type points and with f/5.6 lenses and variable aperture zoom lenses, you have horizontal-line sensitive sensors. With f/4 lenses, there's another layer of complexity (which DPR ignores) - the center AF point functions as a cross-type with all f/4 lenses; with _some_ f/4 lenses, but not all of them, the other 38 points (or 18 points in auto AF selection) do act as cross-type. Those lenses are the 17-40mm, the 24-105mm, the 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS (I and II) + 1.4x II/III, 200mm f/2 L IS + 2x II/III, 300mm f/2.8 L IS USM (I and II) + EF 1.4x II/III, and 400mm f/2.8 L IS (I and II) + 1.4x II/III. With other f/4 lenses (e.g. 70-200mm f/4L Â± IS, etc.), the off-center points function as horizontal line-sensitive f/5.6 points.


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## Michael7 (Jan 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> dr croubie said:
> 
> 
> > note: *not* the same test as this one, that's testing a lens+body combination to get the exact same shot. my test above is a "you already own a lens, what body is better?" question...
> ...



That image has the soft, out of focus look that my 7d has.


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 31, 2012)

With the 5DmkIII rumors ongoing, will anyone willing to pull the trigger on the mkII now?


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## Michael_pfh (Jan 31, 2012)

BlueMixWhite said:


> With the 5DmkIII rumors ongoing, will anyone willing to pull the trigger on the mkII now?



I was fed up with the wait for the 5D3 and spontaneously bought a 1D4 last weekend - love it!


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## Astro (Jan 31, 2012)

i will definately wait a bit longer now.
im happy with my 550D and 7D.

have sold most of my EF-S glass already and when the 5D MK3 appears i make the jump to FF.
will sell the 7D but not the 550D. it´s nice to have the 1.6 crop for my 300mm f4.


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm going to wait out till end of feb. if still no news, I might go for mkII.


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## aaronh (Jan 31, 2012)

BlueMixWhite said:


> I'm going to wait out till end of feb. if still no news, I might go for mkII.



That's my plan too.


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## Dylan777 (Jan 31, 2012)

If you NEED a full frame NOW, then buy it - as I did. 

If you feel current the AF on 5D II is not for you, then save your money for III.

Otherwise....buy a used 5D II now, and sell it once 5D III in stock. You might loose $1 hundred or so, but still cheaper than renting it.


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## kidnaper (Jan 31, 2012)

I see part of my answer addressed on page 7, but I'm not going to read all 7 pages just to be sure I don't repeat... 
I'm in the same boat so here's my rationale...
I don't need a 5DII tomorrow. I'd like one yesterday but I can't justify buying 3 year old tech knowing that the new one should be dropping any day. I already missed out on the best price the camera has ever been at so I have little incentive to jump at it right now. I'd like better AF and FPS out of the Mk3, and would prefer a shared sensor with the 1Dx but will let the real announcement decide which camera I will plan for. 
I guess to surmise, since I don't NEED a 5D at this moment, I'm not going to make any purchase until we know what the new camera will have, and for how much.


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## K-amps (Jan 31, 2012)

My vote goes to... Wait for 5D3. 

Purchases are about being happy with them. While current 5d2 owners are happy with their purchases, how happy will you be if by March there's a 5D3 with a good number of improvements over the 5d2?

The exception is; if you are losing money (or a gig) then go for the 5d2 now, you can always trade up later.


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## aaronh (Jan 31, 2012)

I've been working as a second shooter for a wedding photographer for about a year now. I have my first solo wedding coming up in June and I need a second body for it (I've been using a single 60D as a 2nd shooter). I would like to buy something before June so I can get a good amount of practice with full frame before the wedding. Therefore, unless something crazy happens it seems pointless to wait around for a 5dIII for too long. Especially since my budget is a lot more conducive to a 5dII...


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## K-amps (Jan 31, 2012)

aaronh said:


> I've been working as a second shooter for a wedding photographer for about a year now. I have my first solo wedding coming up in June and I need a second body for it (I've been using a single 60D as a 2nd shooter). I would like to buy something before June so I can get a good amount of practice with full frame before the wedding. Therefore, unless something crazy happens it seems pointless to wait around for a 5dIII for too long. Especially since my budget is a lot more conducive to a 5dII...



Why not get a 5Dc? many wedding pros prefer the 5Dc citing more natural Flesh tones. It's FF, and at a very reasonable price point right now.


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## outsider (Jan 31, 2012)

What does everyone think about the prices. The 5DMK2 can be had (here in canada) for $1999 brand new, and about $1600 used right now. That's an amazing price.
The cost of the 5DMK3 is likely going to be around $3k (just like what the 5Dmk2 was when it came out), and when that happens I expect the value of the used MK2 out there to increase.
Just a feeling.

Of course the Mk3 is going to be better. But currently I think the value you get for the MK2 is awesome, especially for a used one.

What do you guys think?


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## Dianoda (Jan 31, 2012)

Hey Kids,
Just wanted to chime in and note that this thread was started way back in July 2011 and some hoser drudged it up to note that an image looked soft (thanks hoser). But don't mind me, feel free to beat this dead horse for all it's worth.


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## Vamp898 (Jan 31, 2012)

The DIGIC5, thats what canon says, would blow your mind.

Also the 5D Mark II is quite old and so the DIGIC4 is... its still a very very good camera but if you dont own any camera i would defently wait at least 1-2 months

damm just read that this post is quite old and dead xD

nvmd


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## skitron (Jan 31, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Purchases are about being happy with them. While current 5d2 owners are happy with their purchases, how happy will you be if by March there's a 5D3 with a good number of improvements over the 5d2?



I will probably still be happy since the 5D3 is not going to cost me $1990 bundled with $650 of software I actually wanted and use. And it will still be the best performance for that price for a good while I suspect. I'm guessing the 5D3 body comes out for north of $3K.



Vamp898 said:


> damm just read that this post is quite old and dead xD



LOL, yes, but the fact it's old kinda makes a point about waiting for something to materialize for all this time.


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## K-amps (Jan 31, 2012)

skitron said:


> I will probably still be happy since the 5D3 is not going to cost me $1990 bundled with $650 of software I actually wanted and use. And it will still be the best performance for that price for a good while I suspect. I'm guessing the 5D3 body comes out for north of $3K.



What are you waiting for then? 

PS: 5D came in at $3199. 5D2 was released at around $2500. I am not sure there are enough points to form a correlation, but here it is for whatever it is worth.


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## Vamp898 (Jan 31, 2012)

K-amps said:


> skitron said:
> 
> 
> > I will probably still be happy since the 5D3 is not going to cost me $1990 bundled with $650 of software I actually wanted and use. And it will still be the best performance for that price for a good while I suspect. I'm guessing the 5D3 body comes out for north of $3K.
> ...



Than its easy, the 5D Mark III will cost 1800 xD and the 5D Mark IV will cost 1100


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