# Canon EOS 7D Mark II AF Issues



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 8, 2015)

```
<p>We’re told by a couple of people that Canon has internally acknowledged an autofocus issue with the EOS 7D Mark II. No official announcement will be made by Canon until they determine whether or not the issue can be resolved with a firmware update or if it will require the camera to visit a service center. All signs point to the former, but the issue has yet to be fully resolved.</p>
<p>There was no mention whether or not the AF issue affects all cameras, and we don’t want to speculate on this either.</p>
<p>More to come…</p>
```


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## Chaitanya (May 8, 2015)

Waiting to see this issue resolved soon. Couple of my friends have purchased one and they didn't seem to have any issues so far shooting wildlife.


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## AccipiterQ (May 8, 2015)

I just got mine last week....the AF is worse than on the T2i it replaced. It either misses focus by a mile, to the point that the whole frame is a blur (about 15% of the time) or gets it vaguely close (about 70% of the time) and I have to manually sharpen it up. The other 15% of the time it nails it. Really not impressed with the camera's AF so far, especially for shooting wildlife purposes. Tried fiddling around with the different AF modes / focus point options, so far nothing really makes a difference.


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## sanj (May 8, 2015)

And they took 5 years to release the camera. Af was supposed to be the main highlight.


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## nutcaser (May 8, 2015)

I have been exclusively using Canon DSLR gear since the first Rebel was released and have had the 40D and now have the 7D. I could not be happier with the 7D. I am a photo hobbiest and enthusiast and I follow photo gear quite closely. Previous to digital I owned the Minolta Maxxum auto focus SLR system, and had a couple of Canon SLR bodies, including the AE-1. You can call me a Canon 'faithful', and I would have recommended Canon over other brands in a heartbeat. 

Not so now.... Since my 40D shutter failed some years ago I have been keeping a close eye on Canon quality issues. There seem to have been many.... too many. I seems like a thing that Toyota went through as well. Great company, but slipped a bit for some years there around the 'stuck accelerator', wandering steering in the Corolla etc. 

I hope Canon can get back on track. Their reputation is sliding to the level the "third party" companies used to occupy - "great product if you get a good copy". Canon's competition is improving. They need to get off the pity pot, of decreased DSLR sales, and get their act together or they will see folks like me jumping ship (Sony comes to mind). :'(


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## bereninga (May 8, 2015)

sanj said:


> And they took 5 years to release the camera. Af was supposed to be the main highlight.



Hahah Yeah, this is a huge embarrassment for Canon.


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## surapon (May 8, 2015)

Dear Friends.
I got my 7D MK II, since 11/4/2014 and take the photos 6,000+ photos, And Never have any problem about All Auto Focus type issue. Yes, All of us who own 7D MK II must know how to use the difference types/ difference groups of AF( Group A to Group G). and set the speed/ Case of AL Servo/ Tracking Sensitivity.
If you do not set up the right function of AF, and AF do not work when you use----You have to blame your self, Not Blame Canon Company.
Sorry, I do not have Stock of Canon Company, But I buy Canon Photography equipment since 1965, But I have a lot of stocks at APPLE, But I do not use Product of Apple.
Have a great day, Sir/ Madame.
Surapon


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## nutcaser (May 8, 2015)

As far as being an embarrassment for Canon I doubt it will be.....

The "suites" made the decision to cut the quality control and send it out without checking the product, etc. Canon is the 800lb gorilla. Unlike companies like Sigma. They would probably just as soon get out of the entry level and enthusiast level of DSLR gear all together. Its about the bucks.


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## zim (May 8, 2015)

sanj said:


> And they took 5 years to release the camera. Af was supposed to be the main highlight.



sanj, so what, shit happens! point is sounds like they are taking a pretty honest customer caring approach to this no?

Surapon, that last photo is just wrong ;D ;D


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## machx0r (May 8, 2015)

surapon said:


> Dear Friends.
> I got my 7D MK II, since 11/4/2014 and take the photos 6,000+ photos, And Never have any problem about All Auto Focus type issue. Yes, All of us who own 7D MK II must know how to use the difference types/ difference groups of AF( Group A to Group G). and set the speed/ Case of AL Servo/ Tracking Sensitivity.
> If you do not set up the right function of AF, and AF do not work when you use----You have to blame your self, Not Blame Canon Company.
> Sorry, I do not have Stock of Canon Company, But I buy Canon Photography equipment since 1965, But I have a lot of stocks at APPLE, But I do not use Product of Apple.
> ...



My focus issues where mostly in one shot mode on static objects. Sending the camera in to Canon for repair seems to have resolved these issues. :shrug:


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## LSXPhotog (May 8, 2015)

After I sent mine into Canon Service back in January, I was surprised how much better the loaner model seemed to behave when I recieved it. When I got my camera back, the AF issue certainly seemed to improve over it being extremly hit/miss to the ocasional miss. Still, I shot a track event last week and I came home with shots that shouldn't have been out of focus and I really scratch my head. I think there is some sort of algorithm issue with the camera's AF sensor. Something is certainly wrong with the camera. My 6D is flawless, 5D3 is flawless, 7D flawless, 7D2? Not flawless.

One thing that was really shocking to me was how terrible the Sigma Art 50mm works with the 7D2. It's dreadful. At least it works perfectly on my other cameras, but it's a shame that I've expereineced some issues with the 7D2.

Oh, and the comment above about 15% of the shots just being a blur, you're right. Not that 15% of mine turn out like that, but when the camera doesn't nail focus, the whole image just seems cloudy. Looking for the focal plane along the ground and I can't find it at all on a subject several feet away from me. Where is the focal plane? It seems like the whole image is just slightly out somehow?

Canon will hopefully have an answer for this as soon as possible. If I have to send the Camera back in, I won't mind too much, but I would probably consider selling it after it got back for another body I know works perfectly....such as the 5D3 at $2500 now!


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## DamnRedhead (May 8, 2015)

I bought a 7D2 when it first came out but something just wasn't right with it. I returned it to Adorama and got a replacement about 2 weeks after shooting with it, and my new one has never had a problem. I never could figure out what was wrong.


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## rfdesigner (May 8, 2015)

nutcaser said:


> As far as being an embarrassment for Canon I doubt it will be.....
> 
> The "suites" made the decision to cut the quality control and send it out without checking the product, etc. Canon is the 800lb gorilla. Unlike companies like Sigma. They would probably just as soon get out of the entry level and enthusiast level of DSLR gear all together. Its about the bucks.



It will be a yield issue. 

i.e. If lens type X has optics at one end of production limits and AF at the other coupled with a 7D with AF optics at another extreme and electronics with lowest tolerance bandwidth, then you get unstable operation or something. 

Remember every part has a tolerance, just taking the two end limits means you have 2^n possible variations of just the body where n = number of parts, add in all the variation of all the lenses and it's a suprise issues like this don't happen more often.

Additionally the 5DIII 1DX and now 7DII have new precision AF compared to other bodies (not just more cross points)

Finding every last possible defective interaction before going to production is extremely difficult, normally most are found, but it looks like one's sneaked through, and the way forward for all their customers is a software patch if possible so Canon are doing the right thing.


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## TeT (May 8, 2015)

zim said:


> Surapon, that last photo is just wrong ;D ;D



He does like to mix in the odd selfie.... I would bet that a fair chunk of the 6000+ taken on his 7DII are of the selfie variety...

Keep on rocking the selfie Surapon... nothing wrong about it...


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## NancyP (May 8, 2015)

Elegant, Surapon. :
I think that there are panicky user problems (OMG this doesn't work....wait....RTFM....there are settings???) and there are real AF problems out there with individual copies of the 7D2.


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## Scooter (May 8, 2015)

I've been following this site for a few years now, but I've never posted. I've had the 7DmkII since it came out, shoot cyclocross and mountain bike racing, and my son's baseball games for his high school. I shoot through fences and nets, and even shot a couple poorly lit basketball games in gymnasiums. I might not have the trained eye of most of you, as I'm an amateur photographer at best, but I don't seem to have any issues with the camera that I can't attribute to my lack of skill. If you care to review some of my images, please see flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sinakul/sets/). I'd really like to know if I'm settling for "good enough" images (outside of my ability level) or if I am truly not experiencing the issues others are reporting with the mkII. Thanks!


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## wallstreetoneil (May 8, 2015)

*my guess is that it is a hardware issue*

when you start to add it all up, some cameras good with no issues, a few terrible, some mostly good with anoccasional completely no plane of focus just blurry image that shouldn't be blurry - what is left?

my guess is that it is a hardware / manufacturing tolerance issue and if I had to further guess it is somehow related to the new better dampened shutter mechanism 

if it was a software issue then all cameras would be affected similarly

what is the major new thing with this camera? the shutter


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## aceflibble (May 8, 2015)

I've seen enough people writing up about how their 7D2's AF seemed poor and Canon asked them to send it in and replaced the sensor and mirror, that I'm confident there _is_ some kind of actual hardware fault with the 7D2 that, while it may not be present in every unit, has turned up in enough for it to be a more noticable problem than the usual quality control failures. If the 7D2 actually was mechanically sound and all the faults were simply down to either user error or a software or firmware error, Canon wouldn't be replacing all those sensors and mirror boxes.

That said, there are obviously a lot of 7D2 owners who have had no such problems and I don't recall any notable publications mentioning AF problems in their reviews. Seems to me like it's probably the kind of thing which affected one specific production run and Canon will say "if your camera's serial number is between [###] and [###], send it in."


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## Eldar (May 8, 2015)

I have done my best to be sceptical and find something to complain about, unsuccessfully. I have primarily used it on long whites though. But having looked through my wife´s capture with the Tamron 16-300, I cannot see that AF is an issue there either. It took some time for me to get my copy, so maybe it has something to do with an early production batch.


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## SlydeR (May 8, 2015)

Scooter said:


> I've been following this site for a few years now, but I've never posted. I've had the 7DmkII since it came out, shoot cyclocross and mountain bike racing, and my son's baseball games for his high school. I shoot through fences and nets, and even shot a couple poorly lit basketball games in gymnasiums. I might not have the trained eye of most of you, as I'm an amateur photographer at best, but I don't seem to have any issues with the camera that I can't attribute to my lack of skill. If you care to review some of my images, please see flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sinakul/sets/). I'd really like to know if I'm settling for "good enough" images (outside of my ability level) or if I am truly not experiencing the issues others are reporting with the mkII. Thanks!



Great photos Scooter...are you using the original 100-400mm?


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## JoFT (May 8, 2015)

I do have my 7D2 since nov 1st. It is a great camera. I never faced any autofocus problems with one exception: my Sigma 1.4 85mm. But these kind of problems I do have on my 5D3 as well....


The 7D2 has the best autofocus I have ever seen!!! I shot in a hockey match 53 photos in a row from the first part until the goal @ 10 frames per second... All in focus. I have never ever seen a better autofocus performance!!!


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## Sabaki (May 8, 2015)

surapon said:


> Dear Friends.
> I got my 7D MK II, since 11/4/2014 and take the photos 6,000+ photos, And Never have any problem about All Auto Focus type issue. Yes, All of us who own 7D MK II must know how to use the difference types/ difference groups of AF( Group A to Group G). and set the speed/ Case of AL Servo/ Tracking Sensitivity.
> If you do not set up the right function of AF, and AF do not work when you use----You have to blame your self, Not Blame Canon Company.
> Sorry, I do not have Stock of Canon Company, But I buy Canon Photography equipment since 1965, But I have a lot of stocks at APPLE, But I do not use Product of Apple.
> ...



Good day sir Mr Surapon sir 

I received my first 7Dii on the 19/11/2014. 

As I moved from the 9pt AF system of the 500D to the 65pt AF system, I expected a lot of learning from my side. In fact, I told myself that I will still be learning after a full year with the 7Dii. 

Thing is that I'm not a totally inadequate photographer and was able to see performance issues with my 1st & 2nd 7Dii bodies, issues that Canon acknowledged. 

My third body works better than the first two but it still does not deliver as expected. Certainly, the AF system should easily outperform that of a Rebel body, no?

I do suspect that perhaps only a 10% (thumb suck number) minority of 7Dii owners are having AF issues but I do suspect that if we were to look at birding photographers, that number may double. 

Why do I say birding? Well, birds are generally smaller than cars, people, motorbikes etc. and let's not forget that the target area for any animal is the eye, which is small!

A question that can be taken from the above is, does the focus system handle large subjects better than it does for a target the size of a bird's eye?

Trust me, Canon can be wrong too

But I'm holding out major hope that the pending firmware update allows everyone access to the 7Dii's Magic


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## East Wind Photography (May 8, 2015)

aceflibble said:


> I've seen enough people writing up about how their 7D2's AF seemed poor and Canon asked them to send it in and replaced the sensor and mirror, that I'm confident there _is_ some kind of actual hardware fault with the 7D2 that, while it may not be present in every unit, has turned up in enough for it to be a more noticable problem than the usual quality control failures. If the 7D2 actually was mechanically sound and all the faults were simply down to either user error or a software or firmware error, Canon wouldn't be replacing all those sensors and mirror boxes.
> 
> That said, there are obviously a lot of 7D2 owners who have had no such problems and I don't recall any notable publications mentioning AF problems in their reviews. Seems to me like it's probably the kind of thing which affected one specific production run and Canon will say "if your camera's serial number is between [###] and [###], send it in."



The majority of successful repairs that I have seen here in forum posts, including mine, involved replacing the mirror box assembly which includes the Af sensor due to improper assembly. Somewhere along the way the improper mounting often damages it enough that it cannot be salvaged and must be replaced. The entire system must then be recalibrated.

I'm certain they are diligently working on the root cause and will issue some sort of official statement once it's figured out.

In the mean time if anyone suspects it's not working like it should, dont wait for the warranty to expire. Call them or email them and arrange for it to be looked at.


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## aceflibble (May 8, 2015)

Yeah, that's what I thought. Sounds like QC tolerances haven't been quite tight enough or a defect in one specific production run.


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## Andrewccm (May 8, 2015)

For the most part my 7d2 nails the focus...but there are conditions where I can be shooting a runner in the face coming straight at me with single Point AF and it'll focus all the way down on the bottom right corner of the frame on the track itself (or a blade of grass) and probably 5 ft in front of the subject. It's like the predictive AF freaks out and it focuses on nearest subject (regardless of AF Point). There are also times were nothing is in focus at all like mentioned above. I also notice the sensor is very sensitive to blooming when overexposing. 

Weird. 

My 5D3 and 1D do not suffer any of these issues. If had the 7D2 since the day it was released. 

I should mention that I returned my first 7D2 due to these types of issues within the first 2 weeks and got a replacement. The replacement seems to be much better, but the occasional unexplainable still happens. 

Andrew
Crystal Clear Media


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## East Wind Photography (May 8, 2015)

It's been unclear from the responses if the problem is with the mounting of the mirror box or if the AF assembly was improperly mounted to it. I would think the latter as it would have the most impact to AF issues. A loose or improperly mounted mirror box could potentially just self destruct at some point.


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## machx0r (May 9, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> The majority of successful repairs that I have seen here in forum posts, including mine, involved replacing the mirror box assembly which includes the Af sensor due to improper assembly. Somewhere along the way the improper mounting often damages it enough that it cannot be salvaged and must be replaced. The entire system must then be recalibrated.
> 
> I'm certain they are diligently working on the root cause and will issue some sort of official statement once it's figured out.
> 
> In the mean time if anyone suspects it's not working like it should, dont wait for the warranty to expire. Call them or email them and arrange for it to be looked at.



I was actually surprised when I got my camera back and no hardware had been replaced. The "check and adjust focus" has definitely improved my situation though.

Certainly would recommend anyone that thinks they have an issue send it in for repair. I had originally planned to wait for the rumored firmware release but am glad I didn't as my camera works a million times better now.


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## East Wind Photography (May 9, 2015)

machx0r said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > The majority of successful repairs that I have seen here in forum posts, including mine, involved replacing the mirror box assembly which includes the Af sensor due to improper assembly. Somewhere along the way the improper mounting often damages it enough that it cannot be salvaged and must be replaced. The entire system must then be recalibrated.
> ...



As I've mentioned in other forums, a lot of pros who buy those $10K super whites immediately send them back to canon for calibration and alignment check often before even using it for the first time. There are a lot of factors that could cause a lens or camera to get out of kilter either at the factory or on the slow boat from Japan. Generally a 2nd look over and test to verify it's calibrated and working like it should is not out of the question.


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## nutcaser (May 9, 2015)

rfdesigner said:


> nutcaser said:
> 
> 
> > As far as being an embarrassment for Canon I doubt it will be.....
> ...




Sorry, but this is smoke and mirrors stuff.

The camera is only required to do several things correctly. Auto focus is a huge one. To not get that right a very high percentage of the time is unacceptable. I have a Sigma 1.4, 50mm that is a bit challenging for my 7D to get right everytime. In general super fast lenses are challenging for the auto focus. When it doesnt get it right its still very close. Thats not the same thing as the camera completely malfunctioning in the regard to auto focus.

Automobiles have many complex computations and hand shaking that must occur between various processors and mechanical components. If a drive by wire engine control system would fail from time to time and the engine would stall this would be unacceptable. Sure, a camera malfunction will not kill someone, but does that make it acceptable?


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## AccipiterQ (May 9, 2015)

LSXPhotog said:


> Oh, and the comment above about 15% of the shots just being a blur, you're right. Not that 15% of mine turn out like that, but when the camera doesn't nail focus, the whole image just seems cloudy. Looking for the focal plane along the ground and I can't find it at all on a subject several feet away from me. Where is the focal plane? It seems like the whole image is just slightly out somehow?



YES! Cloudy is the word I was looking for. I have the same issue where there is apparently no focal plane on about 15% of the shots. 

I had heard the AF was the big improvement with this camera, and I'm going to keep tinkering and see if I can figure it out, but right now the AF has been a downgrade from even the T2i I was using.


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## Bghead8che (May 9, 2015)

Since the yet to be released Canon 5DS/R uses a similar autofocus system you wonder if it will be affected as well.

-Brian


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## MichaelHodges (May 9, 2015)

The 7D was plagued with this as well. Ever since I've completely steered clear of Canon's crop cameras. My ff's do not have these issues.


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## Andrewccm (May 9, 2015)

Another related thing to consider is 3rd party lenses and firmware compatibly. I know my Tamron 150-600 does not like my 5D3 much at all. REquires a firmware upgrade at the factory to make it work consistently with that body. Without it, it pauses on occasion and will not Even focus search. I haven't had a chance to send it in. Oddly enough, it works great on my 7D2 (albeit, with a bit of AF Microfocus adjustment).


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## Andrewccm (May 9, 2015)

MichaelHodges said:


> The 7D was plagued with this as well. Ever since I've completely steered clear of Canon's crop cameras. My ff's do not have these issues.



Yep. Sold off my 2 7Ds due to that.


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## Luds34 (May 9, 2015)

MichaelHodges said:


> The 7D was plagued with this as well. Ever since I've completely steered clear of Canon's crop cameras. My ff's do not have these issues.



My own anecdotal personal experience with a 70D (crop) has been awesome. Focus tracking is top notch as it just hits frame after frame after frame. A few months with a 6D and while I can say I love the low light sensitivity of the center point and in one shot it is accurate and consistent, ai servo leaves very much to be desired. So I'm not sure I'd make the generalized statement that all crops are bad because you had a bad experience with one model. Wouldn't you agree?


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## Lee Jay (May 9, 2015)

On my 7D Mark II, the center 25 points in any position, and all points in landscape seem to work well. The one issue I'm having is when using the side 20 points on either side while the camera is in portrait. This is in AI servo with focus priority and all Canon lenses. In that configuration I'm getting about 20-30% out of focus.


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## pvalpha (May 9, 2015)

I'll share my experience. I got the 7DMII about three weeks ago. I took my body back for exchange this past Wednesday. 

For the two weeks that I had the first body, the photos shot on one-shot, indoors, ISO < 800, or on a tripod were "fairly" sharp. I was a bit annoyed that I didn't get the usual clarity in my cat and dog pictures (normally I can see sharp light reflection in the eyes when I hit the correct DoF and focus) , and I wasn't seeing that and didn't find the images very impressive. I didn't buy this camera for portraiture though so I didn't really inspect the images pixel-level. 

I bought it to shoot outdoors with my dogs and to get nature shots (birds, flowers, wildlife...) as my old camera just couldn't keep up with the running pups and it took a *lot* of setup and frustration to get even two or three BIF photos. When I tested this thing on my pups at 10fps... I didn't get a single one in focus. Case 1... Case 2... didn't matter. Every one of them looked like someone had smeared petroleum jelly on my lenses. On _all_ my lenses. I tried every single setting in the book. I tried various MFA techniques. I was practically ready to start ritual sacrifice of oats and grains to any god that might listen to my plight. 

After looking deeply and carefully at every image I took, I realized *none* of them were in focus. At all. Even the ones I thought were sharp when I first took the images had signs of vibration. Even images shot at 1/2000+ with F5.6-F11 on bright days with low ISO were out of focus. It was most notable in specular reflections. The only thing that I could think of was that the sensor was physically moving while the shutter was being triggered, or I was just _that_ bad with this camera. 

I took the body back to the store on Tuesday and asked if I could get a replacement. I showed them my outdoor shots, and they looked skeptical, claiming not to see a problem. But they said that they'd reserve one for me. There was this nagging voice inside my head that said: "its just your ignorance, not the camera." and I felt like a heel for complaining about something that was likely my own fault. I came back on Wednesday and talked to the guy that originally sold me the camera (he wasn't there the previous day). I took the new body and put my old lens on it (just to keep things scientific) and went outside for some shots. I had to prove to myself that it wasn't just *me* and that I wasn't wasting the dealer's time. 

I took the photos, came back in, and pulled up the images on my MBP in Adobe Camera Raw... and they were razor freaking sharp. I started giggling hysterically in relief, practically crying and thanking the guy profusely. 

Since the exchange I've successfully caught birds in flight at the kind of shutter speeds I'm used to from my old camera (10D), but now with 10fps I can actually get a series instead of just one or two before the bird's out of range. This weekend I plan on photographing the pups as they run around. 

I'm glad Canon is admitting the problem. If they can come up with a firmware that really does improve the quality of focus, that would be awesome. I've not tested it on the new body, but some of the AF points really don't lock well enough for my taste in AF servo. I'm used to reacquiring though, so its not *that* big a deal, especially considering how fast reacquisition is on this thing. I tend to start center point and move from there. As for the other points, the locks don't always select the subject that I like. That's probably where canon can make the most improvement in their firmware and software. 

I am hoping that things stay working well. This camera is an amazing camera.


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## kristianlund (May 9, 2015)

My story with the 7d mkii sounds like pvalpha experience. But i cant send my camera in because im a photography student and need my camera every day. I mostly use one shoot AF. Really hope that a firmware can help with this problem, otherwise im gonna be bald from pulling my hair of in frustrations.


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## dslrdummy (May 9, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> On my 7D Mark II, the center 25 points in any position, and all points in landscape seem to work well. The one issue I'm having is when using the side 20 points on either side while the camera is in portrait. This is in AI servo with focus priority and all Canon lenses. In that configuration I'm getting about 20-30% out of focus.


AI servo in focus priority is my main area of concern too, shooting sports. Have sent the camera in to Canon and waiting for the response.
For those who say their 7Dii is performing perfectly, that's great, but don't assume the rest of us are imagening things or have no idea how to properly utilise the camera's AF system. I have had many years experience with film cameras, the 5D classic and the 5Diii in the sorts of conditions I am using the 7Dii without any problems. I don't use third party lenses. In summary, the results we are reporting really just emphasise that some copies are fine, others are not. Canon have essentially admitted there is a problem, so lets see what it is and then see how they will resolve it.


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## Keith_Reeder (May 9, 2015)

MichaelHodges said:


> The 7D was plagued with this as well. Ever since I've completely steered clear of Canon's crop cameras. My ff's do not have these issues.



That's because - as I've explained to you _many, many_ times - you don't know how to use the 7D properly.


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## Keith_Reeder (May 9, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> My own anecdotal personal experience with a 70D (crop) has been awesome.



My 7D was/is fantastic.

My 70D was/is probably even better.

My 7D Mk II us unquestionably better again the the other two.

And all this, with supposedly poorly-focusing Sigma lenses. Shooting birds, birds in flight, fast motor sport, aircraft, field sport. With the supposedly flaky AI Servo...

_And_ I have very high standards.

This "admission" by Canon is right up there with the firmware we were supposed to be seeing...

_Everything_ we're reading about the 7D Mk II's AF is far more easily explained by user error than by anything else.


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## Keith_Reeder (May 9, 2015)

dslrdummy said:


> but don't assume the rest of us are imagining things or have no idea how to properly utilise the camera's AF system. I have had many years experience with film cameras, the 5D classic and the 5Diii in the sorts of conditions I am u



You might have a faulty camera: but that's a world away from the assertion that starts this thread, that the 7D Mk II's AF is inherently flawed in some way.

Take it from me: _it is not_. 

Either that - or I'm just _incredibly, repeatedly_ lucky in that every Canon body I've ever bought has "miraculously" bucked the trend and focused like a hero...


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## lol (May 9, 2015)

If there is a real problem, I'm sure we'll get a "phenomenon" statement from Canon in due course.

I'm not inexperienced but don't claim to be the best, but I just gave my 7D2 a BIF workout earlier this week. I hate to admit I haven't used it much since I got it last year so I'm a bit rusty. I did notice, but not done a detailed test, that my 100-400L mk1 seems to look worse on the 7D2 than 7D1. This is relative to the 70-300L which looks similar on both. I haven't AFMA as historically I haven't needed to on f/5.6 lenses.

As for the BIF hit rate, initially it was horrific. I was using all AF points in servo, and it was tracking pretty much anything in the scene other than the bird. Note the conditions I was shooting in were pretty much worst case. It had a relatively near background so that is always confusing for any camera. Also the birds flying distances were very close, at times coming into MFD and I was in danger of having a vulture in my face if I didn't dodge. After playing about a bit, I switched to AF tracking mode 6 and reduced the AF area to the middle block only. Much better! Now it was tracking the subject, most of the time. I still had some difficulty getting initial lock though. As likely operator error, on review when back at home a lot of shots were ruined with more motion blur than I like, and maybe I should have used even faster shutter speeds (depending on lighting I was around 1/400-1/800).

Discounting the motion blur, the sideways tracking shots had a reasonable accuracy, although it may drift a bit. I was also running out of depth of field. At times the camera was focusing on the nearest wing, the body would not be in focus. The approaching bird shots were much more challenging. Here there was often a bit of lag so the head would not be in focus, whereas the feet would be. With hindsight, maybe I could have stopped down more as again more depth of field would help here compared to shooting wide open.

tldr: there may be some real problems out there, but I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of reports are down to the user.


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## Sabaki (May 9, 2015)

Keith_Reeder said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > My own anecdotal personal experience with a 70D (crop) has been awesome.
> ...



My 1st 7Dii was NOT fantastic

My 2nd 7Dii was NOT fantastic

My 3rd 7Dii is STILL NOT fantastic

I'm really happy for you that you've enjoyed such luck to have never had problems with any of your Canon kit YOU have bought but there are enough of us out there who were not so lucky. 

I do concede though that not everybody who blames the camera has a faulty unit but certainly enough people here have posted about shutter boxes and whatnot being replaced to at least suggest there may be problems with some units?

Or can you further qualify your assertion that it's probably user error and has nothing to do with anything else?


----------



## dslrdummy (May 9, 2015)

Keith_Reeder said:


> dslrdummy said:
> 
> 
> > but don't assume the rest of us are imagining things or have no idea how to properly utilise the camera's AF system. I have had many years experience with film cameras, the 5D classic and the 5Diii in the sorts of conditions I am u
> ...


Not sure what thread you are referring to. The start of this thread reads as follows:
_We’re told by a couple of people that Canon has internally acknowledged an autofocus issue with the EOS 7D Mark II. No official announcement will be made by Canon until they determine whether or not the issue can be resolved with a firmware update or if it will require the camera to visit a service center. All signs point to the former, but the issue has yet to be fully resolved.


There was no mention whether or not the AF issue affects all cameras, and we don’t want to speculate on this either.


More to come…_
Seems like Canon might recognise a problem, even if you have been lucky enough not to experience it. The indication is that there is a recurring problem, not that every unit sold has the problem.


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## Nathalex (May 9, 2015)

Hello everyone,
I am not sure this topic exactly deals with my issue but still...
My problem with 7D2 is that I am not able to trust the AF even for very simple images. Look at the example I just shot : same settings, same (very still) model and yet, one is sharp enough for me and the other is not.
20 shots : 3 or 4 definitely out of focus for a still subject !

I never felt I lacked confidence with my previous cameras (4 Canon DSLRs between the 350D and the 7Dm2)


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## neuroanatomist (May 9, 2015)

dslrdummy said:


> Seems like Canon might recognise a problem...



Yes, based on what 'a couple of people' told a _rumors_ site. 

Certainly there are defective units in any mass produced product line, but much of this may be user error. 

Firmware issues affecting some users but not others is another possibility, based on a seemingly unrelated setting. For example, the 1D X AFMA bug occurred only if you had the orientation linked AF point setting active.


----------



## Lee Jay (May 9, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Firmware issues affecting some users but not others is another possibility, based on a seemingly unrelated setting. For example, the 1D X AFMA bug occurred only if you had the orientation linked AF point setting active.



I don't remember that one. What was it?


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## neuroanatomist (May 9, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Firmware issues affecting some users but not others is another possibility, based on a seemingly unrelated setting. For example, the 1D X AFMA bug occurred only if you had the orientation linked AF point setting active.
> ...



https://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_brain/7600237574/in/album-72157624587295692/


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## CanonOregon (May 9, 2015)

My issue is not like any I see posted here- my 7d MkII was simply freezing or giving me the 'Error 01 Lens Error' way too much, with a Canon 300mm f4 L, but it also did it with the 24-105mm f4 L. On the second trip they got it to repeat and felt it was something wrong with the lens and replaced the diaphragm assembly, free, under the CPS program. It repeated, even worse, after a week or two. This time they replaced the entire lens mount on the camera after being unable to duplicate the problem there. As I understand it, error messages are stored somewhere so they could see it really was happening. Next week I travel to Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in eastern Oregon so that will be the real test for the camera- also rented the 100-400mm to see if I want to go that way and if there's something else with the lens or...who knows what but sure frustrating to be tracking bird, getting great shots and ....FREEZE- nothing happening or I see the error message- I'm standing right next to a marsh, removing the lens (don't drop it!), powering the camera off and on...and of course the bird is LONG gone!
Hey, I can't complain about the crew at CPS- they're working hard on this but...
My 7d MkII was one of the first released, by the way.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2015)

Thanks SlydeR! Yes, it's the original 100-400L. My favorite lens has to be the 70-200 f2.8 II. It's magical for shooting through the nets and fences.


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## entoman (May 9, 2015)

As a pro wildlife photographer with 10 years experience of Canon cameras (40D, 50D, 7D, 6D, 5DMkiii, 7DMkii with L lenses), I can assure the doubters that there are definitely some AF issues with the 7DMkii.

*My* body, (8000 shots since purchased in January), works fine in some situations but terribly in others, despite lots of experimenting with multiple variations of AF settings. My 5DMkiii, on the other hand, which uses exactly the same system of "cases" does NOT suffer from any these issues.

The first issue:

*My* 7DMkii focuses extremely rapidly when set to one-shot or AI focus, with any focus "case", and any focus area selection. However while the end result is razor sharp, the image in the viewfinder is slightly out of focus, which is rather disconcerting. When manually focusing via live view, the live view focus and sensor focus are obviously in sync. The problem cannot be compensated for by AFMA - it lies with a slight misalignment between the viewfinder focus screen and the sensor plane.

Some other 7DMkii bodies apparently don't have this issue, so it is unlikely to be a design fault, more likely an *assembly and quality control issue*.

The second issue:

When set to SERVO focus (and focus priority for first and subsequent frames) *my* camera is slightly less reliable when shooting single shots, and *absolutely useless when attempting to shoot in continuous mode*. Even at 3 fps silent continuous drive, it can't keep up with even a large slowly moving subject! Setting the camera back to AI FOCUS immediately improves the hit rate, but is still nowhere as good as the 5DMkiii, and is more on par with the 6D.

The third issue:

*My* camera, when set to 65pt wide area focus, and set to AI FOCUS or ONE SHOT mode, always focuses on the closest object, regardless of its position in the frame. However with the same 65pt wide area focus, and no other changes, apart from setting SERVO focus, it acts totally differently, always focusing on an object in the centre of the frame, regardless of whether there is a closer object to the left or right.

Issues 2 and 3 seem to indicate a *firmware problem*.


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## Lee Jay (May 9, 2015)

dslrdummy said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > On my 7D Mark II, the center 25 points in any position, and all points in landscape seem to work well. The one issue I'm having is when using the side 20 points on either side while the camera is in portrait. This is in AI servo with focus priority and all Canon lenses. In that configuration I'm getting about 20-30% out of focus.
> ...



What I don't get is why portrait versus landscape would matter unless there's something loose in the AF optics or in the lens. It's somewhat lens-dependent, but not a lot. I'm getting about 95% in-focus in one particular test with the camera in landscape and about 75% in portrait with those side points using the same lens. With the center points, it basically doesn't miss in either orientation. I don't get that.


----------



## Lee Jay (May 9, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Certainly there are defective units in any mass produced product line, but much of this may be user error.
> 
> Firmware issues affecting some users but not others is another possibility, based on a seemingly unrelated setting. For example, the 1D X AFMA bug occurred only if you had the orientation linked AF point setting active.



I recently shot a model airplane float fly with my 7D II. 743 shots, 32 out of focus. I was able to positively verify that 30 of those were user error of one sort or another (some were intentional based on playing with settings). All of those used the central 15 AF points.

On the other hand, using the right edge points, I'm only getting 75% in focus in portrait mode, on a far, far slower subject. Again, on the same subject, I'm getting essentially 100% in focus from the center block of focus points.

I've tried various settings and adjustments, and can't seem to figure this out. All of my lenses do it to one degree or another, and supporting the lens barrel on the thinking that gravity is causing a lens barrel slop problem doesn't seem to eliminate it.

Based on what you said above, I removed orientation lined AF point selection, and it didn't seem to help. I also have tried 12 points, 1 points with expansion, and single point, all with about the same results.

Weird.


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## East Wind Photography (May 9, 2015)

entoman said:


> As a pro wildlife photographer with 10 years experience of Canon cameras (40D, 50D, 7D, 6D, 5DMkiii, 7DMkii with L lenses), I can assure the doubters that there are definitely some AF issues with the 7DMkii.
> 
> *My* body, (8000 shots since purchased in January), works fine in some situations but terribly in others, despite lots of experimenting with multiple variations of AF settings. My 5DMkiii, on the other hand, which uses exactly the same system of "cases" does NOT suffer from any these issues.
> 
> ...



Maybe. However mine suffered from the same issues. Had the mirror box and AF assembly replaced and everything Recalibrated. The camera now works fine without a firmware update.

Carefully document all of your concerns, sample shots if you can supply them, and open a ticket with canon support. They will instruct you to send it in for eval and testing. They are turning them around fairly quickly. I got mine back in a week.


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## neuroanatomist (May 9, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> What I don't get is why portrait versus landscape would matter unless there's something loose in the AF optics or in the lens. It's somewhat lens-dependent, but not a lot. I'm getting about 95% in-focus in one particular test with the camera in landscape and about 75% in portrait with those side points using the same lens. With the center points, it basically doesn't miss in either orientation. I don't get that.



Firmware is plausible. On my 1D X, and I think also on the 7DII, it can set AF mode based in just orientation, e.g., it's in One Shot for landscape, rotating to portrait switches to AI Servo. 

My point isn't that the orientation linking setting is the problem, but rather that the camera can treat the different orientations differently in terms of AF, and that may be part of the problem.


----------



## sanj (May 10, 2015)

zim said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > And they took 5 years to release the camera. Af was supposed to be the main highlight.
> ...



Haahahaha. Yes S__ happens. I sympathize. But when it happens after 5 years it st__ks bad. Although I feel it is not a design issue, I feel it is a production issue. But what do I know.


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## ashmadux (May 10, 2015)

Good to know im not crazy. After YEARS of Af issues on the 7d, 6d, a rented 7d2, AND a disastrous 70d refurb (canon direct) with nonfunctional AF so bad, i almost chewed off the canon rep's ear.

(Ps- that same 70 was posted on this site several weeks ago as a 70d deal. Hope you didnt buy it.)

Too many photogs get on these forums act like they know so much (many do, but..) - the lack of critical thinking is puzzling and sad, and hurts the entire community. I posted about Af issues on the 7d2 rental, and the feedback was incredibly dismissive - even with a wealth of shooting experience. It wouldn't focus a damn. Good luck on anyone believing you. Ridiculous.

Ultimately, its not that hard to use a camera. Point it, shoot it (with correct settings) and AF should just 'work'. Thats the whole point of AF.


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## andrewfusekpeters (May 10, 2015)

I am a pro wildlife photographer - shot with 7d and Tamron 150-600 and was shortlisted for British Wildlife Photagrapher of the Year - got 1dx and big white {wonderful life-changing tools} but was then keen for the reach of 7d2 to give my 500 more reach...- found what a lot of people are saying - for still and portrait, quite good, but moment anything moved ie BIF or even the easiest shot in the world - ie a hovering kestrel - right settings - all OOF. Finally it is now with Canon and we shall wait and say - bought a grey import so they are telling me despite it being a real 7d2 made by Canon, they will charge me for what is a faulty product. Even my sharpest shots with this camera do not touch what i have done with 1dx and I am aware they are different bodies at diff price points, but my keeper rate is crazy low for even the easiest tracking shots - ie Marsh Harrier flying right past me, Gannets cruising past etc - I love this body for the reach but I hope they sort it out as summer is passing by and there were Merlins zipping past me today and I need the reach to get them.


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## East Wind Photography (May 11, 2015)

andrewfusekpeters said:


> I am a pro wildlife photographer - shot with 7d and Tamron 150-600 and was shortlisted for British Wildlife Photagrapher of the Year - got 1dx and big white {wonderful life-changing tools} but was then keen for the reach of 7d2 to give my 500 more reach...- found what a lot of people are saying - for still and portrait, quite good, but moment anything moved ie BIF or even the easiest shot in the world - ie a hovering kestrel - right settings - all OOF. Finally it is now with Canon and we shall wait and say - bought a grey import so they are telling me despite it being a real 7d2 made by Canon, they will charge me for what is a faulty product. Even my sharpest shots with this camera do not touch what i have done with 1dx and I am aware they are different bodies at diff price points, but my keeper rate is crazy low for even the easiest tracking shots - ie Marsh Harrier flying right past me, Gannets cruising past etc - I love this body for the reach but I hope they sort it out as summer is passing by and there were Merlins zipping past me today and I need the reach to get them.



What I don't understand, as a pro wildlife photographer with 1dx and 500mm, why you opted to buy a grey market item to save a few hundred bucks?


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## hufc59 (May 11, 2015)

I Got My 7D ii 4 Weeks Ago, Went To Yorkshire Wildlife Safari Park With Tripod & Sigma 50-500 Using One Shot Auto Focus, Out Of About 400 Shots, Only 2 Were Any Good And Took A Lot Of Sharpening, They All Looked Great On The LCD On The Back Of The Camera, Got Home And After A Week I Deleted Them All.
I Sent My Camera Back, Got My Money Back, No Questions Asked, Which Makes Me Think Some Suppliers Are Aware Their Is A Problem. I Tried Calibration On My 17-40, 24-70, 70-200 L Series Lens Are They Were Just As Bad. I Would Also Like To Add That Most Pictures Taken Were Of Lions & Tigers Lazing About Some Of Which Were Asleep


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## Pancho (May 11, 2015)

entoman said:


> The third issue:
> 
> *My* camera, when set to 65pt wide area focus, and set to AI FOCUS or ONE SHOT mode, always focuses on the closest object, regardless of its position in the frame. However with the same 65pt wide area focus, and no other changes, apart from setting SERVO focus, it acts totally differently, always focusing on an object in the centre of the frame, regardless of whether there is a closer object to the left or right.
> 
> Issues 2 and 3 seem to indicate a *firmware problem*.



Concerning the third issue, if you have the iTR activated in SERVO mode, this is a normal behaviour. The auto-focus works first on the selected collimator (generally the center one) and then follows the subject using the 65 collimators.


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## Pancho (May 11, 2015)

My experienced problem with my 7DII is in AI SERVO (iTR activated) and continuous (10fps, focus priority for first and second shoot) mode.
When I shoot a serie of 7-10 frames, the 2-3 first shots are clear in focus, the following ones (2-3 also) can be totally out of focus and the last ones come back in focus. I have seen that in several cases: ski jump, horse jump,... with the 70-200F:4LIS.
Otherwise, I have not seen any problem in AI one-shot or in image per image drive.


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## neuroanatomist (May 11, 2015)

Pancho said:


> entoman said:
> 
> 
> > The third issue:
> ...



*THIS* is a perfect example of why it's difficult to take many claims of so-called problems as genuine. When the solution to the "problem" is to RTFM, it's not really a problem now, is it?


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## rshachar (May 11, 2015)

Pancho said:


> My experienced problem with my 7DII is in AI SERVO (iTR activated) and continuous (10fps, focus priority for first and second shoot) mode.
> When I shoot a serie of 7-10 frames, the 2-3 first shots are clear in focus, the following ones (2-3 also) can be totally out of focus and the last ones come back in focus. I have seen that in several cases: ski jump, horse jump,... with the 70-200F:4LIS.
> Otherwise, I have not seen any problem in AI one-shot or in image per image drive.



Maybe try to reduce unnecessary "noise" buy turning it off. Other than that I have the same phenomenon


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## Jane (May 11, 2015)

I have had a 7DII since it was released. I have 37K shutter activations. I had some AF issues. I sent it to Canon who acknowledged that "It was found that the internal component was out of position causing the focus to operate improperly. Electrical adjustments were carried out on the internal component." Things have improved.

I use the 7D Mk II with 1.4x III and 100-400 MK II for local birding where I am usually walking with my equipment. The camera is in continuous mode, AI Servo AF. 

I have a 1DX for larger or closer subject and have used it with the same lens with no problems. I have also used a friend's 400mm DO Mk II on my 7D II with similar AF issues. I have used a 1DX for a couple of years without AF issues. Yes, we all have OOF shots at times.

On the 7D II, occasionally, one or 2 shots in a burst would be out of focus for no good reason - nothing in the situation changed. It wasn't awful until I shot a burst of an egret. In one frame the egret's mouth was open catching a dragonfly. There was only one of this in the burst. Happily it was sharp. I realized if that was the one that was OOF I would have been furious. The camera went to Canon that afternoon. I could shoot 10 frames and say number 4 and 7 (but randomly) would be OOF. With identical subjects not moving I could have a sharp image, then an OOF one, then the next sharp. There clearly was an AF issue on my copy.


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## neuroanatomist (May 11, 2015)

Jane said:


> The camera is in continuous mode, AI Servo AF.
> 
> With identical subjects not moving I could have a sharp image, then an OOF one, then the next sharp. There clearly was an AF issue on my copy.



Clearly. You're using a mode designed to track a moving subject, predict where it will be when the next image is captured, then focus on that new location before the moving subject gets there. You're using that mode on a static subject. So clearly, that means there's an AF issue. Clearly.


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## Lee Jay (May 11, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Jane said:
> 
> 
> > The camera is in continuous mode, AI Servo AF.
> ...



I've used nothing but AI-servo on still or moving objects on my Canon cameras for 10 years, and had no problems. I'm doing the same on my 7D Mark II and also having no problems on stationary subjects.


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## neuroanatomist (May 11, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> I've used nothing but AI-servo on still or moving objects on my Canon cameras for 10 years, and had no problems. I'm doing the same on my 7D Mark II and also having no problems on stationary subjects.



Interesting. 

[quote author=Canon]
One Shot: Suited for still subjects. 
AI Servo: Suited for moving subjects when the focusing distance keeps changing. 
[/quote]

In fact, I also use AI Servo for still subjects – but with back button AF the camera isn't attempting to continually focus.


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## Lee Jay (May 11, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > I've used nothing but AI-servo on still or moving objects on my Canon cameras for 10 years, and had no problems. I'm doing the same on my 7D Mark II and also having no problems on stationary subjects.
> ...



In fact, I also use AI Servo for still subjects – but with back button AF the camera isn't attempting to continually focus.
[/quote]

So, when you let go of the button, it stops focusing. If it's continually moving in and out of focus while you are holding the button down, it should be stopping in or out of focus randomly. In reality, if it's working properly, it shouldn't be jittering around at all on a stationary subject, and if it is, it should be such a small amount that the subject is always still well within the DOF so that the precise moment you let go of the AF ON button doesn't matter.


----------



## LSXPhotog (May 11, 2015)

In reading some of the responses in this thread I think it's very clear those of us having the AF issue are experiencing the problem in almost the exact same circumstances. There is certainly something buggy about the camera.

The "I'll shoot 10 frames and frame 4 and 6 will randomly be OOF" is pretty much spot on. I will shoot a series of shots of a vehicle coming toward me at the track and 2 or 3 in a quick burst will be OOF for no reason at all. The shots in between are just fine. I've used almost every setting imaginable to adjust this camera's AF as well...nothing seems to prevent it from just getting all confused here and there. However, this thing can stay GLUED on almost anything, but then it will randomly show a shot in a sequence where it commanded the lenses to change focus incorrectly then corrects for it immediately after.


----------



## Luds34 (May 12, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



So, when you let go of the button, it stops focusing. If it's continually moving in and out of focus while you are holding the button down, it should be stopping in or out of focus randomly. In reality, if it's working properly, it shouldn't be jittering around at all on a stationary subject, and if it is, it should be such a small amount that the subject is always still well within the DOF so that the precise moment you let go of the AF ON button doesn't matter.
[/quote]

Yes and No. My experience has been that if you sit there and hold BBF down on a stationary subject and you fire enough shots, it will miss. Granted this has been at f/2 and faster in my experience. Of course I learned long ago (if shooting full time ai servo) to tap (briefly hold) BBF to focus on a stationary subject and it works great. In fact I read or saw a video years ago where a Canon rep/tech/trainer covered all of this and you were basically fine to use ai servo in this manner. Where one really needs to drop back to one shot mode, is in very low light, low contrast subjects where the camera/lens may have to hunt a bit to lock focus... being in ai servo will just be problematic at this point.

General rules apply here. Get to know your gear and use it correctly. Continuing tracking a still subject is just tempting fate.


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## neuroanatomist (May 12, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yes and No. My experience has been that if you sit there and hold BBF down on a stationary subject and you fire enough shots, it will miss. Granted this has been at f/2 and faster in my experience. Of course I learned long ago (if shooting full time ai servo) to tap (briefly hold) BBF to focus on a stationary subject and it works great. In fact I read or saw a video years ago where a Canon rep/tech/trainer covered all of this and you were basically fine to use ai servo in this manner. Where one really needs to drop back to one shot mode, is in very low light, low contrast subjects where the camera/lens may have to hunt a bit to lock focus... being in ai servo will just be problematic at this point.

General rules apply here. Get to know your gear and use it correctly. Continuing tracking a still subject is just tempting fate.
[/quote]

+1

Find a quiet room. Put your camera on a tripod pointed at a high-contrast static subject, single point selection, AI Servo, IS off if the lens has it. Activate focusing and keep it active...do you hear something? If it's quiet enough, you will – that's the focusing element group moving. When it moves, the focus distance changes. Maybe not enough to matter, but sometimes it can, especially with wide apertures and close subjects. A firmware bug? Canon's fault? Nope, RTFM. 

Same reason you need to turn off IS with the first-gen IS lenses when mounted on a tripod – the system is attempting to compensate for motion that isn't there.


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## neuroanatomist (May 12, 2015)

New firmware tomorrow. According to a post in another thread with a Spanish version of the supposed notes on the update, it addresses an AF issue.



fserrajana said:


> 1. Ha solucionado el fenómeno por el cual la función AF de la cámara no siempre funcionaba correctamente a distancias focales de aproximadamente 100 mm al usarse con el objetivo EF 70-200 mm f/2.8L IS II USM.



I wonder – is everyone reporting buggy AF seeing it specifically with the 70-200/2.8L IS II at ~100mm?? Somehow, I doubt it.....


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## Lee Jay (May 12, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Find a quiet room. Put your camera on a tripod pointed at a high-contrast static subject, single point selection, AI Servo, IS off if the lens has it. Activate focusing and keep it active...do you hear something?



No...dead silent, no movement at all.


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## neuroanatomist (May 13, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Find a quiet room. Put your camera on a tripod pointed at a high-contrast static subject, single point selection, AI Servo, IS off if the lens has it. Activate focusing and keep it active...do you hear something?
> ...



Interesting. Different from the four cameras with which I've tried it.


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## East Wind Photography (May 13, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Find a quiet room. Put your camera on a tripod pointed at a high-contrast static subject, single point selection, AI Servo, IS off if the lens has it. Activate focusing and keep it active...do you hear something?
> ...



Mine after the mirror box replacement and calibration also has no movement of the AF on a static high contrast subject. It locks in ai servo and stays locked. Prior to the repair it was jumping all over the place. I have no issues with leaving it in ai servo except in low light conditions where one shot gives a quicker lock.


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## Mancubus (May 14, 2015)

My 7D Mark II has AF issues or something worse (such as sensor shake) that will make almost every image soft.

I'd say that 90% of the people who bought a 7dm2 know what they're doing, and if the pictures aren't sharp, something is wrong. My 7d2's image sharpness is way below my former 70D and even worse than a compact G1X.

I'm sending mine to warranty after 6 months of extensive shooting and blaming myself for shots being out of focus or just too soft. Since I can't afford to stay without a camera body for several days/weeks I bought myself a 5dm3 and the difference is night and day (i'm talking about daylight ISO100 shots at high shutter speed, the 7dm2 should nail those).

Basically all my shots now (using the 5dm3) are sharp and in focus, and I'm using the exactly same techniques I did with the 7d2. I really hope Canon recognizes the issues and takes the necessary measures to fix whatever is wrong. The firmware does nothing related to this, downloading it will not solve the issues.

I really believe there are many 7dm2 bodies out there with this issue. Check out this portfolio of a friend, her shots are amazing but for most of them it looks like they were took using mobile phone. This is NOT how it should be, there is no excuse for this softness except for a bad focusing or something worse. http://www.viewbug.com/member/lisalawrence

Whoever is blaming the users' technique for poor image quality probably never had a faulty body in their lives. I believe in user error for some shots, but when every damn shot is soft it's definitely something else.

Canon f***ed up badly on this one, this is supposed to be a top notch equipment and this rate of failure is not acceptable. I'm never buying any new cameras like that, from now on I'm waiting at least 6 months for the issues to show up and from there I'll decide if it's worth the purchase or not (7dm2 would be a no-no after some reading).

If I had to guess, I would say there is a major project mistake that causes the sensor to shake and this will cause a minor movement blur in every shot. In addition to that, the AF might have an issue as well caused by a different project mistake.


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## East Wind Photography (May 14, 2015)

Mancubus said:


> My 7D Mark II has AF issues or something worse (such as sensor shake) that will make almost every image soft.
> 
> I'd say that 90% of the people who bought a 7dm2 know what they're doing, and if the pictures aren't sharp, something is wrong. My 7d2's image sharpness is way below my former 70D and even worse than a compact G1X.
> 
> ...



Well I can say if I had waited 6 months I would have missed out on a great eagle and soccer season and would have had to make due with 5 or 6 fps. Despite having to send it back for repair, I am glad I made the pre-order purchase. I knew what I was potentially getting into by doing that. Canon was quick to resolve the problem and get it back to me at their expense.

There a lot of reasons why images could be soft and there is no doubt that many of them have some kind of factory assembly and/or calibration issue. Did you check the AFMA setting to make sure the camera is matched to the lens? After that if the images are soft, then there could be some problem and a good idea to send it in. 

My 7D2 works all as good now as my 5d3 and have actually been using my 5d3 as a backup since I'm well into sports season now.


----------



## Mancubus (May 15, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> Well I can say if I had waited 6 months I would have missed out on a great eagle and soccer season and would have had to make due with 5 or 6 fps. Despite having to send it back for repair, I am glad I made the pre-order purchase. I knew what I was potentially getting into by doing that. Canon was quick to resolve the problem and get it back to me at their expense.
> 
> There a lot of reasons why images could be soft and there is no doubt that many of them have some kind of factory assembly and/or calibration issue. Did you check the AFMA setting to make sure the camera is matched to the lens? After that if the images are soft, then there could be some problem and a good idea to send it in.
> 
> My 7D2 works all as good now as my 5d3 and have actually been using my 5d3 as a backup since I'm well into sports season now.



Definitely yes, I can say I'm a master at AFMA. Spent so much time trying to calibrate an 85mm to my old 70D that I know everything about it by heart (turned out that the 85mm had an inconsistent AF that would front/back focus randomly).

Spent also many hours trying to calibrate all my 6 lenses on the 7d2. Every lens needed some adjustment to be focusing properly, but it would only work well in a controlled environment (well lit room, with fluorescent light, distinctive focusing target) and once I took it to the real world the focus would miss quite often. But even on the micro adjustment sessions the image was still soft compared to my previous cameras.

I've read somewhere that only about 1 in every 20 lenses should need some AFMA, at first I thought I was extremely unlucky that all my lenses needed some correction on my 7d2. But with the 5d3 it was just plug and play, my lens are fine with no adjustments just like it should be.


----------



## East Wind Photography (May 15, 2015)

Mancubus said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Well I can say if I had waited 6 months I would have missed out on a great eagle and soccer season and would have had to make due with 5 or 6 fps. Despite having to send it back for repair, I am glad I made the pre-order purchase. I knew what I was potentially getting into by doing that. Canon was quick to resolve the problem and get it back to me at their expense.
> ...



Well I can tell you that the one in twenty rule is hog wash. The reality is that most people would not notice if afma was off 5 clicks. Just stop down the lens to make it sharper, right?

All of my Canon lenses required afma on all of my bodies except 1 lens. My sigma 35 f1.4. Out of the box afma was perfect at 0 on my 5d3. I have 10 canon lenses and bodies. All required afma. So the requirement for afma is generally subjective unless you have a way of measuring it using a tool like a spyder lenscal.

Anyway, regardless, you have experience in that process and went through that so I would then say you should have canon check it out. I got to the point where I could afma my 600mm lens and the next day it would be off again by like 5 clicks. There were other issues too such as unable to lock on subjects and losing lock once acquired. Other things were unable to focus on the foreground object in zone AF mode, inconsistent front and back focusing, unable to determine what it focused on. Ai servo was mainly useless. One shot gave better results but until I could settle on an afma setting that was questionable.

I would get about 10% success rate and I felt that was more of a random luck thing as the ai servo would jump around jittery as hell.

Now, it locks on, stays locked and in The rare instance I get an out of focus image it's usually my bad tracking. I never shoot out of ai servo unless I have low light. No AF jumping around on even still subjects.

It is fixable and it should work as expected. If it's not then something needs repaired or recalibrated.


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## Mancubus (May 15, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> Well I can tell you that the one in twenty rule is hog wash. The reality is that most people would not notice if afma was off 5 clicks. Just stop down the lens to make it sharper, right?
> 
> All of my Canon lenses required afma on all of my bodies except 1 lens. My sigma 35 f1.4. Out of the box afma was perfect at 0 on my 5d3. I have 10 canon lenses and bodies. All required afma. So the requirement for afma is generally subjective unless you have a way of measuring it using a tool like a spyder lenscal.
> 
> ...



You're probably right about the proportion of lenses needing calibration. But for me, at least three lenses I have (24-70 f4, macro 100 2.8 and 75-300 III) look like to be focusing perfectly on my 5dm3. Even the macro mode on the 24-70 which has a hair thin DoF is doing great. Perhaps if I do extensive testing there might be a point or two of AFMA but I shot the whole day yesterday and didn't miss a single one on my 24-70.

Next week I'm taking the 7d2 and that 85mm to Canon. I'll post the results here later. If they fix it I can at least use it for sports or when I need some extra crop sensor range. 

Thanks for sharing your experience.


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## rshachar (May 15, 2015)

rshachar said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > rshachar said:
> ...



(Quoting from another topic http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26245.msg518352#msg518352)
Tried the same test with a 70-200 F4 IS twice. Out of 97 shots I can find just a few which are out of focus, although it was harder to tell.
Not sure why though with my 17-55 2.8 I get a few shots which are totally out of focus and some that are very sharp.
Any idea, other than a firmware issue?
I emphasize the firmware since it seems odd to me that the camera has a focus priority mode and yet it permits shooting unfocused images.

Thanks!


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## Scooter (May 15, 2015)

Here's a shot from last night. It's from a sequence of three shots, and this is the middle one. This is with firmware 1.0.2, using the 70-200 2.8 Mk II. I don't seem to be experiencing the same issues as others with the 7DMkII. Maybe my eye isn't discerning enough?

Large 2048 download from flickr (original here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sinakul/17472141960/in/dateposted-public/)


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## rshachar (May 16, 2015)

LSXPhotog said:


> In reading some of the responses in this thread I think it's very clear those of us having the AF issue are experiencing the problem in almost the exact same circumstances. There is certainly something buggy about the camera.
> 
> The "I'll shoot 10 frames and frame 4 and 6 will randomly be OOF" is pretty much spot on. I will shoot a series of shots of a vehicle coming toward me at the track and 2 or 3 in a quick burst will be OOF for no reason at all. The shots in between are just fine. I've used almost every setting imaginable to adjust this camera's AF as well...nothing seems to prevent it from just getting all confused here and there. However, this thing can stay GLUED on almost anything, but then it will randomly show a shot in a sequence where it commanded the lenses to change focus incorrectly then corrects for it immediately after.



+1


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## Lee Jay (May 17, 2015)

I have a 7DII that seems to work properly, but I've found what I think is an algorithmic defect. The camera seems to have trouble tracking acceleration properly with the side points in some situations. In some cases, it's when my camera is in portrait, though this could just be because of which of the AF sensors (horizontal or vertical) are being used on this subject. It seems to have trouble when the subject is moving slowly in a somewhat erratic manner, such as with a person walking. If the walking is smooth, it does okay. If it is jumpy, it jumps around, sometimes front focusing by a lot, as though it decides the subject has stopped, then rapidly accelerates and so the camera slightly undershoots and then drastically overshoots. It doesn't do this at all on faster subjects, that I can tell.


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## Davebo (May 17, 2015)

rshachar said:


> LSXPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > In reading some of the responses in this thread I think it's very clear those of us having the AF issue are experiencing the problem in almost the exact same circumstances. There is certainly something buggy about the camera.
> ...



+10..... This happens with mine too. I have AI Servo 1st and 2nd priority set to 'focus only' (+Zone AF). If you RTFM and/ or the supplemental AF Guide...the camera CANNOT take a picture if focus is 'not' achieved. In a burst of 8-10..the first 2 or 3 may be in focus,then the next couple are way off,then focus is achieved again. This is not user error!
I believe Canon is well aware they have a problem....but they may not know just how many units are affected. Doesn't it seem odd that repair centres appear to have a supply of mirror boxes,AF sensors,etc at the ready for such a new camera?


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## neuroanatomist (May 17, 2015)

Davebo said:


> Doesn't it seem odd that repair centres appear to have a supply of mirror boxes,AF sensors,etc at the ready for such a new camera?



Really odd. Just like it was really odd that my Honda dealer had replacement parts for my new Pilot just after I bought it. It's not like having parts inventory at service centers is planned as part of a product launch. Who'd think new products would break, or that buyers of those products would be upset if they had to wait for an international shipment of replacement parts for warranty service on a new purchase. 

Must be a conspiracy. I heard it was a lone gunman, and did you know the moon landing took place on a Hollywood back lot?


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## Don Haines (May 17, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Must be a conspiracy. I heard it was a lone gunman, and did you know the moon landing took place on a Hollywood back lot?


It was a conspiracy and all filmed on a sound stage..... if you look closely at the famous "flag" picture of Neil Armstrong, you can see a housecat in the corner....


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## Valvebounce (May 18, 2015)

Like it Don. Very good. 



Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Must be a conspiracy. I heard it was a lone gunman, and did you know the moon landing took place on a Hollywood back lot?
> ...


----------



## Davebo (May 18, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Davebo said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't it seem odd that repair centres appear to have a supply of mirror boxes,AF sensors,etc at the ready for such a new camera?
> ...




The question was meant to be rhetorical (read the speculation preceding the question…that was the set up). The expected answer was ‘no’, because of course it’s not ‘odd’.
Prior to a new product launch, having a healthy supply of parts available is axiomatic. It, however, is impossible for any manufacturer to cover all possible defect/repair scenarios. Reactive deliveries of ‘problem part’ replacements allow them to quickly turn around repairs, thus protecting brand and company image, while maintaining customer confidence. This apparent damage control (no manufacturer is immune) seems to be supported by owners reporting such speedy repairs and return. …..and further backed up by CR’s reports that Canon is aware they have an AF issue. 
For those who continue to believe it is all user error (because their own camera (N=1) is perfect), I have to ask…why Canon would orchestrate repairs,replacing real parts to fix an imaginary problem?


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## neuroanatomist (May 18, 2015)

Davebo said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Davebo said:
> ...



Oh, I see. A few anecdotal reports of fast repairs (side note: Canon repairs are generally quite fast), and a report on a _rumor_ site, and it's a widespread problem of which Canon is aware. Not so widespread that a recall has been issued but widespread enough that they've overstocked their service centers with just the right parts to deal with this widespread problem. 

I don't know that anyone is suggesting all these problems are imaginary. Lemons occur in any manufacturing line. But the suggestion that this is a widespread problem isn't backed up by the evidence. Canon issued a firmware update to address an AF problem with one specific focal length of one specific zoom lens...but they're just ignoring (publicly) a massive elephant in the room? They issued a service notice for the T6i/650D for the sensor spots. They issued a service notice for AF issues in their flagship 1D X. But they're just not saying anything about this supposed pervasive issue in the 7DII? Sorry, that doesn't seem logical and there's no real objective evidence to support that contention.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 18, 2015)

The first thing I do when I buy a new (or used) camera is to check the autofocus using all my lenses and FoCal. Every camera acts a little differently, and some lenses are known for a wide variation in AF accuracy. I have had well over 100 EF lenses, and only about 6 or 8 did not meet the Canon specification of being within 5 AFMA points. Only two were off by more than 8 points, my 100mmL which is off about 10 points, and my 35mm L which was off 17 and adjusted by Canon to be right-on.

As for Canon having the right parts, they only need a few hundred. They replace the mirror boxes because its easier, but they replace them with refurbished ones. They likely send out a batch every week to their refurb company in Mexico or Wisconsin or wherever. There is nothing that says new repair parts will be installed in a used camera.


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## Valvebounce (May 18, 2015)

Hi Mt Spokane. 
I have no problem with refurbished parts providing they are refurbished properly and the repair is guaranteed. Also I would hope a brand new camera with a few, to a few hundreds of shutter actuations wouldn't get a shutter box installed that has 100,000 (disproportionately high) actuations on it! 
By refurbished properly, I'm limited in my knowledge of what would be done to a shutter box, but in the automotive world there were often companies that thought refurbishing a major mechanical unit consisted of a quick clean and repaint! ;D

Cheers, Graham. 



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> As for Canon having the right parts, they only need a few hundred. They replace the mirror boxes because its easier, but they replace them with refurbished ones. They likely send out a batch every week to their refurb company in Mexico or Wisconsin or wherever. There is nothing that says new repair parts will be installed in a used camera.


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## rshachar (May 19, 2015)

rshachar said:


> rshachar said:
> 
> 
> > East Wind Photography said:
> ...



I've checked out yesterday a few photos I took with one shot AF and found one where the camera shows it focuses on an eye, but the actual focus is on a plane before the eye.
How can I tell if this is something fixed by AFMA or not? I am not sure since most photos are in-focus and sharp.


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## GadgetBoy (May 19, 2015)

rshachar said:


> rshachar said:
> 
> 
> > rshachar said:
> ...


 
If you experience a random focus issue, focus is correct then suddently is not where you want it to be, it cannot be fixed by AFMA which correct recurrent focus issues.

Maybe should we list the lenses that cause troubles and the conditions where the problem appears ?

Which lens were you using ?

For me : random focus issue with a 17-55, single shot. No trouble with it on other bodies


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## Don Haines (May 19, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Davebo said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



There is also the possibility that there is a problem (or multiple problems) and that Canon is still trying to figure out exactly what is happening. If (as some have suggested) there is a flaw in the AF algorithm, the fix will probably be a firmware update, but when you consider how long it will take to properly characterize the problem, come up with a solution, and then implement and test the solution, I would not expect anything before the fall at the earliest. If the problem is mirrorboxes, it could be batch problem (expect a service advisory) or it could be a random problem, in which case I would expect a service advisory after a longer period of time to figure it out....

Canon does have a good history of admitting mistakes and acting on them.... refreshing in a world when the standard response is deny deny deny.....


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## neuroanatomist (May 19, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> There is also the possibility that there is a problem (or multiple problems) and that Canon is still trying to figure out exactly what is happening. If (as some have suggested) there is a flaw in the AF algorithm, the fix will probably be a firmware update...



That is certainly a possibility. But they identified and corrected a problem affecting just the 70-200/2.8L IS II at only ~100mm, but can't pin down a 'huge issue' affecting 'so many users'? As I said, possible – I'm just not sure how likely. 

OTOH, these types of issues are difficult to even define as a problem. People who don't pixel peep will likely not ever notice subtle focus errors. Many people reporting supposed AF problems on the Internet are using test methods which are completely flawed. Throw in some mechanically defective bodies and an occasional defective lens, and you have a fairly muddy situation.

OTOOH, there's the supposed 70D center AF point problem, lots of time and seems to boil down to some defective cameras and an Internet forumenon.


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## Marsu42 (May 19, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> There is also the possibility that there is a problem (or multiple problems) and that Canon is still trying to figure out exactly what is happening.



Imho that's absolutely possible because the 7d2 uses a new and very different af system than the predecessors (crop camera with edge-to-edge af pts), in a world of software bugs it would be surprising if there wouldn't be room for improvement given the various lenses you can use in diverse shooting conditions.

Question is what the threshold is to call sub-par performance in some situations something an "issue".



Don Haines said:


> Canon does have a good history of admitting mistakes and acting on them.... refreshing in a world when the standard response is deny deny deny.....



You're correct, we have to give Canon credit for this. As far as I remember, they even admitted problems long *before* having worked out an actual fw fix for this, but on the other hand these were minor issues.

But how they will act on an actual deal breaker, because reports of a flaw in the af system in a camera you buy for its af system might have a larger backlash as reports are bound to be blown out of proportion?


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## Don Haines (May 19, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > There is also the possibility that there is a problem (or multiple problems) and that Canon is still trying to figure out exactly what is happening. If (as some have suggested) there is a flaw in the AF algorithm, the fix will probably be a firmware update...
> ...


my bet is that there are a number of flaws, and that helps to muddy the waters and make diagnostics tricky.... obviously, one such flaw is the 70-200F2.8 around 100mm and action has been taken to address it. I would not be surprised in the least if there were a series of roll-outs of new firmware as other flaws are identified and solutions are found....

As Marsu said, it is a whole new AF system.... it is extremely unlikely they got everything perfect first try....


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## neuroanatomist (May 19, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> But how they will act on an actual deal breaker, because reports of a flaw in the af system in a camera you buy for its af system might have a larger backlash as reports are bound to be blown out of proportion?



They issued a service notice for AF problems on the 1D X. I think a few people may have expected good AF performance from that camara.


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## EvvPhotog (May 20, 2015)

I finally sent my 7D2 in for service. It should arrive back today and I'll see what they did and I hope it is fixed. I love the camera but couldn't trust it.

Mine was one of the first batches as I had pre-ordered. I've shot at least 50k pictures with it since and always had a very hit or miss focus with it. I assumed it was me for the longest time but it was very frustrating. One weekend I went out on a Saturday shooting birds. Took around 700 pictures and maybe 10% of those were sharp. Next day, nothing had changed mind you, I would get 90% in focus. This would happen a lot. Once I got a 6D I started using it more and more because I could count on it to be sharp, even with the very lacking AF system. So at this point I started realizing that it probably wasn't me since I was using the same lenses on the 6D. Apparently Canon agreed that something was wrong since they did repair it.

Here's to hoping ...


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## GadgetBoy (May 20, 2015)

I did other tests with my 7D mk ii and my 17-55. It appears that my focus troubles only appears with the central AF point. I obtain much more repetability and sharp images with AF points arround it although they are supposed to be less accurate.


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## EvvPhotog (May 20, 2015)

At first I thought my issues were only related to the central point as well since for birds and wildlife that's the only point I use. So I have my C1 setting setup for wildlife "portraits", central spot, Av, AF settings for erratic subjects (can't remember the exact one off the top of my head), one shot and other specific things set. My C2 setting was for BIF so I used all AF points (flexi zone I think), Tv and AI Servo. Those shots were often not in focus either. Now, when I say not in focus, some were very obvious but others I couldn't tell until I got home and could see how soft they were. At 1/2000 or faster for BIF, I should get most if not all sharp so that also told me something was wrong with the overall focusing system. I would then take my 6D and set things as close as I could to my 7D settings (obviously the AF is WAY different) settings and shoot. Nice and sharp most of the time.

Obviously your mileage may vary but if you have any doubts, the shipping costs back to Canon to have them look at it is small in comparison to how much money and effort you've already spent fussing with it.


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## GadgetBoy (May 20, 2015)

Yes you're right. Unfortunately this is already my second 7D mk II. I have already spent 4 months with my first body trying to make Canon France recognize there was a problem. All they wanted to do was to make the AFMA, despite the fact that I spent an hour with a technicien showing the issue and who recognized that something was not working correctly but as he did not know what, he could not do anything for me... After lots of phone call, I finally have my 7D mk II replaced... And same troubles with this new one...


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## EvvPhotog (May 20, 2015)

That sucks! I wasn't home for the delivery of mine today so I'll see if mine is fixed tomorrow.

While trying to figure out if mine was messed up or if it was just me, I purchased FoCal and calibrated my lenses. Didn't help. Hell, sometimes FoCal couldn't even get the adjustments correct and I'd end up with an error.

Like I said, I love the camera and I want it to work. For what I shoot 90% of the time it is the perfect camera, if it can focus as advertised that is.

Otherwise I may have to go another route unfortunately. I'm heavily invested in Canon glass though so it would probably be a 5D3 but not sure. I'll cross that bridge later though.

Good luck!


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## candc (May 20, 2015)

i know that some are having issues with their cameras and that there seems to be some defective units out there. i am also reading about some af problems that can be attributed to having the settings too high. don't think about the "cases" too much they are just memory presets for the 3 sliders and the descriptions of the cases don't make a whole lot of sense to me. 

the af will generally work better if you set things low. only set them higher if you really need to because it will make it erratic.

af point switching doesn't make any difference if you are using single point.

for most bif, ducks, eagles, cars people running or walking turn accel/decel all the way down, to the left. 

also turn tracking sensitivity all the way down so it doesn't jump off the subject instantly

overall i think the af is great but it is a bit overly sensitive.


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## Don Haines (May 21, 2015)

EvvPhotog said:


> That sucks! I wasn't home for the delivery of mine today so I'll see if mine is fixed tomorrow.
> 
> While trying to figure out if mine was messed up or if it was just me, I purchased FoCal and calibrated my lenses. Didn't help. Hell, sometimes FoCal couldn't even get the adjustments correct and I'd end up with an error.
> 
> ...


Assuming you had good lighting and the target set up right, if you could not get consistent results with Focal, would that not indicate that there was something wrong with the camera?


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## neuroanatomist (May 21, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> EvvPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > That sucks! I wasn't home for the delivery of mine today so I'll see if mine is fixed tomorrow.
> ...



...and a stable platform, I had issues indoors on a hardwood floor if anyone was walking around, no issues set up on a concrete slab.


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## Don Haines (May 21, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > EvvPhotog said:
> ...


.... and a solid tripod....


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## EvvPhotog (May 21, 2015)

Yeap! Which is why I sent it back to Canon. I setup everything correctly for FoCal and have the steady things needed.


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## daniela (May 23, 2015)

Hi Guys!

Yesterday I was willed to buy a Canon 500mm 4 II L lens and tried it on my 7D MKII in the shop. But the autofocus was not working correct. The lens was trying to become sharp. After several times of focussing in the near and in the far , it stopped hunting for sharpness. We tried it several times to attach the lens new, resetting my body and cleaning the contacts
The lens was working fine on a shop´s Eos 5D MKIII and 6D, but not at mine 7D MKII. So I thought, my body is suffering from an failure. But at home, it works fine on all my lenses. Can you help me, please? Shall I send it to Canon to get this issue fixed?


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## serendipidy (May 23, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Must be a conspiracy. I heard it was a lone gunman, and did you know the moon landing took place on a Hollywood back lot?
> ...



Wow...I didn't know they took their cat along ;D


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## candc (May 24, 2015)

daniela said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Yesterday I was willed to buy a Canon 500mm 4 II L lens and tried it on my 7D MKII in the shop. But the autofocus was not working correct. The lens was trying to become sharp. After several times of focussing in the near and in the far , it stopped hunting for sharpness. We tried it several times to attach the lens new, resetting my body and cleaning the contacts
> The lens was working fine on a shop´s Eos 5D MKIII and 6D, but not at mine 7D MKII. So I thought, my body is suffering from an failure. But at home, it works fine on all my lenses. Can you help me, please? Shall I send it to Canon to get this issue fixed?



That is a great combo. I have seen some really fantastic shots on this forum taken with that setup. If you are looking to buy that lens the camera shop should contact canon and get to the bottom of it for you


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 24, 2015)

I'm still waiting for Canon to start selling refurbs for $1000. To hear all those who have returned theit cameras, their must be 50,000. Of course, some people post on every internet forum, and sometimes start two or three threads, so there might really be only 100 returns.

I'm not afraid to buy one, but I felt the camera was way over priced initially.


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## Ruined (May 25, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'm still waiting for Canon to start selling refurbs for $1000. To hear all those who have returned theit cameras, their must be 50,000. Of course, some people post on every internet forum, and sometimes start two or three threads, so there might really be only 100 returns.
> 
> I'm not afraid to buy one, but I felt the camera was way over priced initially.



Frankly at this point you might have a better chance of getting a good copy with a refurb anyway.


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## dslrdummy (May 26, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The first thing I do when I buy a new (or used) camera is to check the autofocus using all my lenses and FoCal. Every camera acts a little differently, and some lenses are known for a wide variation in AF accuracy. I have had well over 100 EF lenses, and only about 6 or 8 did not meet the Canon specification of being within 5 AFMA points. Only two were off by more than 8 points, my 100mmL which is off about 10 points, and my 35mm L which was off 17 and adjusted by Canon to be right-on.
> 
> As for Canon having the right parts, they only need a few hundred. They replace the mirror boxes because its easier, but they replace them with refurbished ones. They likely send out a batch every week to their refurb company in Mexico or Wisconsin or wherever. There is nothing that says new repair parts will be installed in a used camera.


I've just checked AF for my 7Dii using FoCal on the 300 f/2.8ii with and without the 1.4iii TC and got +6 and +5 respectively. I gather from your comment that those figures are within tolerances. I haven't had a chance to check performance yet. Should I notice much of a sharpness difference with those adjustments? Before the AFMA I got my 7Dii back from Canon Aus but have asked them to clarify what, if anything, they found because the service report just says "checked and adjusted AF" - not that helpful.


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## rpt (May 26, 2015)

The AF on mine works fine. Very sharp images. No hunting. Both on one shot AF and servo. It never hunted. The blurred images I got were user error - my hand shook.


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## Vincwat (May 26, 2015)

Hi,

I am unhappy of my 7Dmk2 images. They lack sharpness. I recently compared images with the exact same settings and lenses (Sigma 150-600 Sport) taken on tripod, between my 7Dmk2 and a 600D. I never managed to get an image as sharp as the 600D. Unfortunately I am leaving for a photography trip in 10days. But when I am back I am sending the 7Dmk2 for repair. There is definitely something wrong. 

Vincwat


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## neuroanatomist (May 26, 2015)

Vincwat said:


> I am unhappy of my 7Dmk2 images. They lack sharpness. I recently compared images with the exact same settings and lenses (Sigma 150-600 Sport) taken on tripod, between my 7Dmk2 and a 600D. I never managed to get an image as sharp as the 600D. Unfortunately I am leaving for a photography trip in 10days. But when I am back I am sending the 7Dmk2 for repair. There is definitely something wrong.



AFMA?


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## Marsu42 (May 26, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Vincwat said:
> 
> 
> > I am unhappy of my 7Dmk2 images. They lack sharpness. I recently compared images with the exact same settings and lenses (Sigma 150-600 Sport) taken on tripod, between my 7Dmk2 and a 600D. I never managed to get an image as sharp as the 600D. Unfortunately I am leaving for a photography trip in 10days. But when I am back I am sending the 7Dmk2 for repair. There is definitely something wrong.
> ...



Oh no, please don't let it be an afma issue, that would strengthen neuro's "Canon cut afma from minor camera bodies b/c they would be swamped with service issues" theory


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## Vincwat (May 26, 2015)

AFMA done on mine with FOCAL and Dotune. giving pretty much the same results by the way.


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## Marsu42 (May 26, 2015)

Vincwat said:


> AFMA done on mine with FOCAL and Dotune. _giving pretty much the same results _by the way.



Muhahaha, thank you, double score :->

Concerning the matter at hand another obvious question: You did the shots 600d vs 70d with raw and similar develop settings, right? If you did proper comparison shots feel free to post some 100% crops of them, just with a general statement you're unlikely to get to the bottom of this.


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## neuroanatomist (May 26, 2015)

Vincwat said:


> AFMA done on mine with FOCAL and Dotune. giving pretty much the same results by the way.



Ok, thanks. 

Out of curiosity, did you try comparing shots focused with Live View? If the live view shots are sharper than VF, that suggests an AF problem. If they are similar and neither are as sharp as the 600D, that points to the camera or to processing. For your comparison with the 600D, were those OOC JPGs or RAW, and if the latter how were they converted?

Also, have you tried with another lens? 3rd party lens makers must reverse-engineer Canon's AF protocols, and the 7DII wasn't available when Sigma was designing the 150-600. It's possible there are issues with newer protocols in the 7DII (it's even possible those issues are intentional on Canon's part).


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## Vincwat (May 26, 2015)

I have some files, I need to ask the other photographer for his files. Then I will be able to post something.
I know that general statements are never good enough for some.

If the 7Dk2 cannot work well with the sigma, I don't know what to do. I am gonna give a try using my 70-200. Otherwise I will end up buying another 5Dmk3 or a 1Dx.

Vincwat


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## Marsu42 (May 26, 2015)

Vincwat said:


> If the 7Dk2 cannot work well with the sigma, I don't know what to do.



The af system of the 7d2 is rather on the complex side and a new design, so I imagine neither Sigma nor Canon have optimized or tested this combination... conspiracy theorists might even say Canon doesn't have much an interest to do so. Did you try to contact Sigma for a possible lens fw update which enhances this combination?

In any case, debugging with Canon's premium 70-200L should be able to tell you if the camera body is the problem, because *this* combination should really work.


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## candc (May 26, 2015)

Vincwat said:


> I have some files, I need to ask the other photographer for his files. Then I will be able to post something.
> I know that general statements are never good enough for some.
> 
> If the 7Dk2 cannot work well with the sigma, I don't know what to do. I am gonna give a try using my 70-200. Otherwise I will end up buying another 5Dmk3 or a 1Dx.
> ...



I haven't heard of any issues with that lens on the 7dii. There is an issue with live view on the new rebels. Sigma released a firmware update for.that.


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## neuroanatomist (May 26, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> The af system of the 7d2 is rather on the complex side and a new design, so I imagine neither Sigma nor Canon have optimized or tested this combination... conspiracy theorists might even say Canon doesn't have much an interest to do so.



No conspiracy theory required. Why would Canon test a Sigma lens, or a Canon lens with a Kenko TC, or a Godox flash, etc., for compatibility? If there's a problem, the 3rd party product is at fault, by definition.


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## Marsu42 (May 26, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > The af system of the 7d2 is rather on the complex side and a new design, so I imagine neither Sigma nor Canon have optimized or tested this combination... conspiracy theorists might even say Canon doesn't have much an interest to do so.
> ...



I agree with the latter, but concerning the former a manufacturer might, just might test a camera system with some 3rd party lenses that are used a lot by the targeted audience - for example the "birder" 7d2 with the usual suspect's tele zooms. Doing so would simply be a nice gesture as Canon is well aware that some people don't use original brand lens hoods or lens caps, even if they don't encourage such disloyal behavior :->

The conspiracy would be that Canon actively sabotages their system *not* to work with lenses that are bound to be used for a specific camera to boost their own sales - it's not like this never happened in the industry. But of course, we'll never know that.


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## candc (May 26, 2015)

It seems canon tries its best to force you to buy "genuine canon batteries". I don't doubt they also do whatever they can to make 3rd party lenses disfunctional. Can't really blame them for it I guess.


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## neuroanatomist (May 26, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Doing so would simply be a nice gesture as Canon...



A nice gesture by Canon? Now _that's_ a conspiracy theory!




Marsu42 said:


> The conspiracy would be that Canon actively sabotages their system *not* to work with lenses that are bound to be used for a specific camera to boost their own sales - it's not like this never happened in the industry. But of course, we'll never know that.



I even suggested that very possibility.


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## Marsu42 (May 26, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Doing so would simply be a nice gesture as Canon...
> ...



Point is that it's not really a guesture, but a business strategy - for me, the Canon system includes the possibility of using 3rd party products beyond lens caps and hoods. Canon agrees, after all they *could* lock out everything and make a camera with a 3rd party battery explode in your face.

But if you really could only use original brand lenses and not a cheaper tele zoom like the op's Sigma, they would lose a lot of sales to Sonikon. So I find it somewhat inconsistent that they play the "we don't know anybody named Sigma" game and not a bit more forthcoming with user service like an "unofficially official faq" concerning compatibility or potential issues. Same goes for the "ignore" strategy towards Magic Lantern, btw.



neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > The conspiracy would be that Canon actively sabotages their system *not* to work with lenses that are bound to be used for a specific camera to boost their own sales - it's not like this never happened in the industry. But of course, we'll never know that.
> ...



You did? Oh my, that's minus one fanboi credit for you :->


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## GadgetBoy (May 27, 2015)

Just to add my contribution to this "conspiracy theory", Canon told me that it was normal that my Canon 17-55 lenses (2 lenses tested) are giving poor images (AFMA done) since they are not L lenses. The same 17-55 lenses that give perfect images with a 500D and a 600D...


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## Don Haines (May 27, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Vincwat said:
> 
> 
> > If the 7Dk2 cannot work well with the sigma, I don't know what to do.
> ...


In the firmware of your 7D2, there is a table of lens data with the characteristics of the various lenses. One of the table values is acceleration/deceleration values, another is number of focus points, etc. What this allows is optimized focusing. Say that the AF system decides that the lens has to be moved 120 units to achieve focus..... the camera uses the acceleration data to determine how long to drive the AF motors to accelerate the lens group, and at the appropriate time, to stop accelerating the lens group and decelerate it to arrive at the focus point in the minimum amount of time and as a result, with a minimum of hunting for focus.

For some inexplicable reason  Canon creates and stores this data for their lenses and NOT for third party lenses....

When the camera encounters a lens that is not in the table, it does not know how many AF units to move it nor does it know how fast it moves...... so the camera makes a guess, moves it, checks AF, and tries again. This is why third party lenses are slower and hunt more than Canon lenses.

There is a cheat..... the third party manufacturer could find the Canon lens with the AF performance that is closest to their lens and when the camera queries the body, to tell the camera that it is that "close" camera lens.... the problem with that is that now the camera is using wrong data for the lens and in reality, this configuration behaves worse than the algorithm for an undefined lens, so nobody does this.

and this is why Canon bodies focus best with Canon lenses, and similarly why a Nikon body will focus best with Nikon lenses, and why a Sony body will focus best with Sony lenses

(as told by a Tamron rep)


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## Don Haines (May 27, 2015)

GadgetBoy said:


> Just to add my contribution to this "conspiracy theory", Canon told me that it was normal that my Canon 17-55 lenses (2 lenses tested) are giving poor images (AFMA done) since they are not L lenses. The same 17-55 lenses that give perfect images with a 500D and a 600D...


interesting....
I have a 17-55 on my 7D2 and it produces sharp images....


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## Mancubus (May 31, 2015)

Sent my 7dm2 for Canon. The support guy was very polite and wrote down all my complaints, the camera body will be sent to technicians for evaluation and replacement of faulty parts.

I hope the technicians have dealt with this before and know what to replace. My bet is on sensor shake, making every image seem a little bit out of focus and/or blurry.


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## Eldar (Jun 1, 2015)

I have tried to provoke some AF malfunctioning out of the 7DII and I cannot say I have been very successful. The only negative thing, which is the case with all crop cameras, is the extra noise, when you move up in ISO. But in general, this camera delivers what I had expected. 

I have some interesting birds in the Oslo fjord these days, but they have been quite far out. So I decided to AFMA the 600mm f4L IS II + 2xIII combo. And of course, the only available model was The Local Lion (I´m sure many of you have missed him )

This was focused on his eye, 1/1250s, f8.0, ISO2500 (and by the way, it is a 100% crop)


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## tron (Jun 5, 2015)

daniela said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Yesterday I was willed to buy a Canon 500mm 4 II L lens and tried it on my 7D MKII in the shop. But the autofocus was not working correct. The lens was trying to become sharp. After several times of focussing in the near and in the far , it stopped hunting for sharpness. We tried it several times to attach the lens new, resetting my body and cleaning the contacts
> The lens was working fine on a shop´s Eos 5D MKIII and 6D, but not at mine 7D MKII. So I thought, my body is suffering from an failure. But at home, it works fine on all my lenses. Can you help me, please? Shall I send it to Canon to get this issue fixed?


Just make one more experiment with the 500: 

Semicorrect by focusing manually (with the lens left to AF) then try again.

I use 2 5D3s. There are some cases that my 500 4 II cannot do anything if it is way off.

I am not sure if this is the case however, since I overcame this when as a TEST I instructed my camera's "Lens Drive when AF impossoble" to ON contrary to all pro (and so called pro) suggestions to set it to OFF. 

Since then, I have set it back to OFF and in the rare case when this happens I half-correct manually and let the lens do the rest.

You mentioned that the lens kept hanging so that setting had to be already ON. In that case I have no suggestions I am afraid.

By the way I am in a similar (but inverted) situation with you. I do have 500mm f/4L IS II and I am thinking of getting 7DMkII !


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## tron (Jun 8, 2015)

Eldar said:


> I have tried to provoke some AF malfunctioning out of the 7DII and I cannot say I have been very successful. The only negative thing, which is the case with all crop cameras, is the extra noise, when you move up in ISO. But in general, this camera delivers what I had expected.
> 
> I have some interesting birds in the Oslo fjord these days, but they have been quite far out. So I decided to AFMA the 600mm f4L IS II + 2xIII combo. And of course, the only available model was The Local Lion (I´m sure many of you have missed him )
> 
> This was focused on his eye, 1/1250s, f8.0, ISO2500 (and by the way, it is a 100% crop)


Eldar thanks for the info. A few questions if you please:

Is this result repeatable? 
Have you tried something similar with other lenses for example 100-400 or similar?
ISO2500 seems clean. Have you denoised the image or you just exposed correctly?

Thanks.


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## digital paradise (Jun 13, 2015)

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26639.msg527153#msg527153


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## Eldar (Jun 13, 2015)

tron said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > I have tried to provoke some AF malfunctioning out of the 7DII and I cannot say I have been very successful. The only negative thing, which is the case with all crop cameras, is the extra noise, when you move up in ISO. But in general, this camera delivers what I had expected.
> ...


The attached image was fairly easy to expose correctly, so that helped with the noise. In general it is clear that the 7DII is a good step behind the 1DX on higher ISO performance. 

I have tried most of my lenses on the 7DII and I get consistent AF on all of them. The 600 f4L IS II + 2xIII combo has given me fairly consistent results, but it is quite difficult to use though, due to it´s narrow field of view and sensitivity to shake. This is my wife´s camera and for my own use, I was only interested in it for the reach. You do not (ref. Privatebydesign´s many posts on the subject) get full benefit from the extra 1.6x reach, from an IQ perspective, maybe 1.2-1.3x (I have not been more scientific about this than comparing similar images), but you do get better AF conditions. 

I have tried the 7DII, 600 f4L IS II + 2xIII extender combo a few times now and have actually found it to be a bit too long (maybe because I am getting old ...). Anyone who has shot moving targets with long teles can appreciate that a 1920mm equivalent field of view is pretty small and just finding whatever you´re shooting in the viewfinder is rather tricky, on top of controlling shake. So I have actually ended up skipping the 7DII, worked on my sneak & hide skills instead and use the 1DX. The 7DII shutter sound is really nice though, compared to the 1DX machine gun noise. My future use of the 7DII will most likely be limited to the 100-400 or maybe also the 200-400, for weight and reach benefits on longer hikes.


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## tron (Jun 14, 2015)

Eldar said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...


Thanks for answering.

I have 2 5D3s and my longest lenses are 100-400 II, 300 2.8 II and 500 4 II along with the version III teles.
I am trying to think whether a 7D2 is useful for FL limiting situations.
I guess it depends:

1. On the 7D2 model (good or with issues) OK my question assumed a good one.
2. On the portability requirements
3. On the available light.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 14, 2015)

tron said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



7d2
Better fps
Better magnification. 1.6 vs a 1.4 via extender and no 1 stop light loss
Better AF by a slight margin ( i originally weighed in favor of the 5d3). After now going back and forth between models, the 7d2 auto focuses slightly faster and maintains AF slightly better.
Dual pixel AF when shooting videos (AF while shooting video)

5d3
Full frame
Better resolution
Slightly better high ISO performance
Better silent mode
Runs magic lantern and supports all of the enhanced features of such (up to firmware 1.2.3)
Better battery life

I honestly can't live without both. They are so vastly different in what they were built for that I would have a tough time deciding on one. Since your lenses are geared for sports and wildlife, I would say you would benefit from the 7d2 based on what you shoot.


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## tron (Jun 15, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...


Eldar and East Wing Photography,

thank you both for answering. I have succumbed to the temptation and ordered it! 

I saw that it is one stop worse than 5D3: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-7d-mark-ii/11
This is to be expected though. Anyway I need it for FL limited situations and for compactness. We'll see.

Thanks again...

P.S Thanks also to AlanF for his tests


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 16, 2015)

tron said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



I think you will find that the 7d2 holds up well. Although it loses about a stop at high ISO, the noise pattern is more pleasing. In RAW you will need to dial up the sharpening in post. The in camera jpg sharpening is pretty good.

Make sure you afma test your lenses and give the AF a really good shake down within your return period.


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## tron (Jun 16, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > East Wind Photography said:
> ...


Thanks. I will make as many tests I can to make sure it's OK.

One question: By dialing up the sharpening I guess you mean more than the default Amount:25 Radius:1 in ACR I guess. I intend to use it only with the 100-400 II (rarely) 300 2.8 II (more often) and 500 II (if extreme reach is needed) lenses so if it will still need more sharpening I guess the AA filter will be responsible rather than the lenses...


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 16, 2015)

tron said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



You may need more than that. The good news is that the raw image holds up very well to sharpening in post. It's solely due to the strong AA filter used with this sensor. I wish they would have left it off but they wanted this camera to be good for video as well. I was referring to the in camera sharpening on jpg images. Sharpening jpg in post is rather useless. 

You will be very happy with the 7d2 for what it was built for. I routinely use it with my 300 II and 2xiii and with the crop factor, I'm picking out birds at distances that are insane and still able to crop and get really great images.


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## tron (Jun 16, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > East Wind Photography said:
> ...


Thanks! This is what I was hoping for.


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## ems1 (Jun 17, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> aceflibble said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen enough people writing up about how their 7D2's AF seemed poor and Canon asked them to send it in and replaced the sensor and mirror, that I'm confident there _is_ some kind of actual hardware fault with the 7D2 that, while it may not be present in every unit, has turned up in enough for it to be a more noticable problem than the usual quality control failures. If the 7D2 actually was mechanically sound and all the faults were simply down to either user error or a software or firmware error, Canon wouldn't be replacing all those sensors and mirror boxes.
> ...



Could you tell me if the shutter count was reset when you received the 7D2 back from repair? I'm sure I read somewhere that it gets reset when replacing the Mirror Box/AF Sensor.

Thanks


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 17, 2015)

ems1 said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > aceflibble said:
> ...



It was not reset. I only had a few thousand shots on it.


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## tron (Jun 22, 2015)

I finally got my 7D2. 

I verified that my 7D2 didn't need AFMA with or without 1.4XIII (I used SpyderLensCal and tripod in broad daylight).

I tried yesterday for the very first time to shoot some birds (seagulls) with 7DII and a 300 2.8 IS II with or without the 1.4XIII.

I believe what I mention below is a combination of user error and/or camera limits.

My (rather randomy expressed) observations (looking at 100% magnification but that's what I do in 5D3 + 100-400 pictures some of which I have cropped at 100% and remain excellent). 

Well if I was a student and had to get 50% to pass I do not know if I would pass. OK the result was not a total disaster but from my point of view it was not satisfactory.

I have to say that my 5D3 + 100-400 II is a comfortable birding combination that serves me well - even with a 1.4XIII if I stop down 2/3 of a stop.

1. I got one or two very sharp pictures with the 1.4XIII (I was starting to think that it was a 300II+1.4XIII combination fault but at least one very sharp means no lens/teleconverter issues). So the culprit: user and/or camera.

2. I got some decent and a few very sharp pictures with 7D2 + 300mm 2.8 IS II (Most at f/4) but I could get these with my 5D3 + 100-400 II anyway.

OK 2.8 max aperture is much different from 5.6 but what is the point? My 7D2 exhibited noise even at ISO 400! I am comforable in boosting ISO much higher in my 5D3. 

To be fair the tests were not the same. I was able to shoot seagulls with my 5D3 + 100-400 much closer. As a result I was able to: zoom in and out and put the AF zone in seagull's head. So I had many cases with very sharp eyes.

Most images were shot between 1/3200 and 1/8000 at f/4. I was using mostly AF Servo. Initially Case 1 but soon I changed it to case 6 (with a little changed values to increase responsiveness). In addition both initial and future pictures were at Focus priority (since release priority at 10fps produced many garbage images).

Other comments. The 7D2's AF system seemed to respond very well and very fast (zone mode) judging from the AF points that were detecting the bird.

I cannot decide If I was pushing 7D2 to its limits or If I must return it. SInce I am not an expert bird shooter I have to improve but everything (= very good results) seems easier with 5D3. To be fair I will test at f/5.6 to compare with (5D3 + 100-400). 

I will test again with 5D3 + 300 + 1.4x or +2x. I hope - in fact I am sure - I will get better results...


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 22, 2015)

tron said:


> I finally got my 7D2.
> 
> I verified that my 7D2 didn't need AFMA with or without 1.4XIII (I used SpyderLensCal and tripod in broad daylight).
> 
> ...



The effects of the crop factor also magnify camera shake. Remember at 300mm with 1.4x you are really shooting at 672mm. I routinely use my 2xiii hand held and yes you need to use IS and even then at 100x you get shots with motion blur. However I am getting tack sharp photos with that combo when my own faults are removed from the shot.

I also use the 300 by itself to shoot soccer and its flawlessly amazing. I also have the 5d3 and yes it has lower noise and higher useable ISO. However for wildlife most of the time I need the crop factor and cropping the 5d3 image often doesn't cut it. Particularly when wolves or bears are the subject. I also don't see any noise I can't filter out until ISO 3200. Everything under that is easily removed either in camera or with ACR or DxO. I still like the 5d3 images a bit better but for the system as a whole, I like the 7d2 better.

Just keep at it for a bit. One or two sessions are not enough to make a determination.


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## tron (Jun 22, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > I finally got my 7D2.
> ...


This seems really good advise. I will keep it (mostly because repeated AFMA tests seem consistent which means it has to be user error. However, shutter speed was high (1/3200 - 1/8000) and the majority of the picures were without 1.4X so it was 480 equivalent. If I compare these with 5D3 with 100-400 + 1.4X (OK it was a handful of distant shots) the latter combination is much better! I was able to remove most of the noice in ACR 9.0. In the near future the bird shots will also include the use of a 500 f/4 IS II with a 5D3 just to compare (not weight though...) Fortnately in the place I work most of the time, a small river passes (under/in between the beggining of a national road!) and we are close to the sea so there are seagulls...


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## tron (Jun 22, 2015)

Just a thought. Could IS interfere with very high shooting speeds?  

I was using IS mode 1 (OK I know that IS mode 2 is more relative).

By looking at my 7D2+300+1.4X pictures I found some very sharp, some so so a few (2 to 5) pictures that seem like having blur from movement (shutter at 1/6400) targets at medium to large distance.

Later I switched to mode 3 (but that was after I had removed the teleconverter). I haven't checked these yet...

EDIT: I have checked the 300+1.4X photos: 28 out of 69 are sharp.

It is much more difficult (time consuming to check the 1800+ 7D2+300 photos though...


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## Travelintrevor (Jun 22, 2015)

I am on the fence about keeping/selling the 7D MK II because of the hit-or-miss focusing. At first, I was a huge fan of the camera and started to leave the MK III at home when shooting family/private work. I shot a few low light events (even lighting) and the camera did great.

The 7D MK II definitely has issues focusing under certain lighting conditions (back lighting and high contrast scenes) and this is why I am considering selling it. The improved DR/ability to push shadows is a huge improvement over the MK III and shows that Canon is heading in the right direction in regards to DR. The ergonomics/programmability are also 2nd to none. The IQ is also extremely good. At lower ISO values, just as good as the MK III. I did a few comparison shots early on and none of us could tell the difference up to 800 ISO or so.

But that focusing issue is real....it does not just slightly miss....it just complete fails. As a backup camera, I am having a difficult time trusting it. At my last wedding, I used it for 20 pictures because the first 7 in a row were OOF. 

Lenses used were, for example, the 135L, 50 1.2 and 24-70 II, etc. Lenses that work fine on the 5D MK III under the same lighting conditions...

I have some thinking to do...selling it won't be easy because the camera is a lot of fun to use

PS: The streak across the eyes was intentional.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 22, 2015)

tron said:


> Just a thought. Could IS interfere with very high shooting speeds?
> 
> I was using IS mode 1 (OK I know that IS mode 2 is more relative).
> 
> ...



I thought that at first but I'm convinced it helps by partially stabilizing the mirror flap. I've heard all kinds of stories about which is mode to use where. I rarely use mode 3 unless im shooting birds in flight. I mostly use mode 2 even for sports. The extra stabilization let's me hold focus better on faces at high magnification. Mode 1 is used only for static subjects.

My copy after service by canon is getting me about 95% in focus hit rate. The other 5% is due to motion blur.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 22, 2015)

Travelintrevor said:


> I am on the fence about keeping/selling the 7D MK II because of the hit-or-miss focusing. At first, I was a huge fan of the camera and started to leave the MK III at home when shooting family/private work. I shot a few low light events (even lighting) and the camera did great.
> 
> The 7D MK II definitely has issues focusing under certain lighting conditions (back lighting and high contrast scenes) and this is why I am considering selling it. The improved DR/ability to push shadows is a huge improvement over the MK III and shows that Canon is heading in the right direction in regards to DR. The ergonomics/programmability are also 2nd to none. The IQ is also extremely good. At lower ISO values, just as good as the MK III. I did a few comparison shots early on and none of us could tell the difference up to 800 ISO or so.
> 
> ...



The only focus issue I have is on strong back lighting. I went and verified the issue on the same scene with my 5d3 and also have the same issue so I don't believe it's the camera. In those instances I just manual focus. I use back button AF only.

For all other scenes I get a very high success rate..a tad better than my 5d3. 

If you are getting less than 90% in focus, return it or send it in to canon for evaluation and repair. Mine was quite a bit worse when I first got it. Canon replaced the mirror box and AF sensor and Recalibrated everything and I'm 100% sold on this model now. It is my go to camera unless I need full frame or higher iso.


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## tron (Jun 22, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Just a thought. Could IS interfere with very high shooting speeds?
> ...


I have attached a case of a very bad photo/failure: 100% magnification 1/5000 sec f/4 7D2 + 300mm f 2.8 IS II +14XIII


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## tron (Jun 22, 2015)

Now check this. 100% too. Same shutter speed, aperture, camera, lens, teleconverter. No processing, no sharpening. Just as displayed on screen via bridge.


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## tron (Jun 22, 2015)

Here is something similar to the first bad picture in size. 100% and same settings. No sharpening


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## dolina (Jun 22, 2015)

After talking to CPS I discovered I may have made a mistake. After I received the calibrated body I quickly applied the 1.0.4 update. I believe this messed up any fix they did.

Now the body is back again with one of my long lenses. Hope this finally puts to rest this issue.


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## tron (Jun 22, 2015)

My camera arrived with 1.04 preinstalled.


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## dolina (Jun 23, 2015)

Those with AF issues what's your body's last 6 digits?

Mine is 000482


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 23, 2015)

dolina said:


> After talking to CPS I discovered I may have made a mistake. After I received the calibrated body I quickly applied the 1.0.4 update. I believe this messed up any fix they did.
> 
> Now the body is back again with one of my long lenses. Hope this finally puts to rest this issue.



Did you wait and install the USA version or did you grab the one from Asia when it was released early? Nearly everyone who installed the Asian fw had some issues with lock ups, losing afma settings, etc.

I installed 1.0.4 USA version and did not have any issues. All of my afma settings were saved and a spot check showed no readjustment was necessary.

One of the things that will really mess up afma is the mirror box coming loose. One would have expected that to have been checked but it could have come loose after it came back. A number of early units appear to many improperly mounted mirror boxes. Once they come loose, the mounts get destroyed and so has to be replaced.

Good luck with the 2nd go around. Hopefully they are picking up the shipping for you.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 23, 2015)

tron said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



This is way off. If the afma is correct then this is the kind of thing that happens when the mirror box or AF sensor comes loose. I'm sure you are experienced with afma calibration. I find that with the long teles afma with the spyder cal gets you close. You still need to dial it in on something as far as infinity as you can...like across a lake using a sign or maybe a heron on the far shore. Regardless what the testers say you need to dial it in at the distance you expect to use the lens at. 24x focal length is just marketing bs.

aside from that, this really looks like what I was experiencing when I got mine.


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## tron (Jun 23, 2015)

Since I have successful shots (and unsuccessful ones of course) at more or less the same distance does it mean that the issue is intermittent?

I have also observed that there is higher probability of failure when the bird is moving away in contrast to cases where it is flying in front of me.


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## tron (Jun 23, 2015)

Some other info: AFMA seemed correct for the distance I am interested in. However I noticed that a very distant photo was wrongly focused (it was backfocusing) even with ONE SHOT AF. But this was only for very long distances. I did not have this problem in very long distances with my 5D3 (with 100-400 with or without 1.4XIII).


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 23, 2015)

tron said:


> Some other info: AFMA is correct for the distance I am interested in. However I noticed that a very distant phot was wrongly focused (it was backfocusing) even with ONE SHOT AF. But this was only for very long distances. I did not have this problem in very long distances with my 5D3 (with 100-400 with or without 1.4XIII).



So in general I would say that it still does not have the proper AFMA if very long distances are back focused. I would make note of the setting where it is now and then try to get the long distance back focus corrected. That should dial it in even better. The AF tracking cannot operate properly unless the AFMA is set precisely. The camera would otherwise be trying to AF on a consistently out of focus image and since AF always operates with the aperture wide open, you also dont get the benefit of depth of field.

I am a bit concerned that it is having trouble tracking moving objects, either toward or away. I tried to compensate using mode 6 and elevating the tracking sensitivity. That didn't seem to help in my early case. My camera as it is now locks on VERY well for objects flying in or flying away.

I went back and found my comments I sent to Canon when I had mine repaired:

"I am getting about 85% to 90% out of focus images for anything that this moving toward or away from the camera in servo mode. For static subjects the success rate is slightly higher but still not what I expect. This is the opposite of the 5DIII where I get 85%-90% success rate and with the 1DX that is even higher, closer to 95%.

Issues I notice: Poor AF servo performance, failure to consistently lock AF on moving objects, loss of lock after AF acquired, invalid AF lock in servo mode and failure through the series, failure to lock on closest objects (hunting) in Zone or Full AF mode, often locks on foreground or background or on areas not covered by an active AF point, CONSISTENT soft images requiring extensive sharpening in post processing even when using live view focus or manual focus. I also suspect that AFMA may either drift or is not being honored in some cases. I have experienced a condition where one day AFMA is best at Zero and then several days later I have to set AFMA to +6. Before each shoot I need to verify AFMA and sure enough the setting requires major changes, as if something is loose or moving..or current setting not being honored."

I just put this out there so you can make your determination if yours is experiencing similar issues I was having. My camera came back in 3 days perfectly repaired and AF performing slightly better than my 5D3.


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## tron (Jun 23, 2015)

East Wind Photography your comments are valuable.

I will study them line by line (back at home) since I am not sure that everything applies to me 100%
and I do not want to report more problems that I really have.

However the behaviour when the subject is moving closer or away from the camera is very much alike
(and to tell the truth more than enough to declare a problem even if everything else is OK).

Today newer (time limited) tests verified that the success ration is adequate with subjects moving in front of the camera and not satisfactory with subjects moving closer or away.

Zone mode was used. The tracking case is irrelevant as well as the IS mode (including off).

Finally for the very long distance backfocus (2 shots) I found out I was using AF Servo and 
(only in these two cases) spot AF to aim the bird (which I did as reported by DPP 4.2.10.

So not using ONE SHOT AF I cannot be sure it is a reliable method although both first and subsequent shots were at focus priority. This will be subject to additional checking (how about the moon ?) but I guess in advance that I will not find backfocus. Checking is better than guessing of course.

I have to make tests of 7D2 with the 100-400 and of 5D3 with 300 (+1.4X) but it will take some time.

Thanks again for your help. I wil let you know...


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## ksgal (Jun 23, 2015)

I get out of focus images in Zone mode as well. Single point or expanded 4 point seems to nail the shot. I think zone may need to be used with a very specific set of cases (that canon may use in their testing when you send it in) and then it may work better, but I've given up on using zone and AI Servo together - at least for now.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 23, 2015)

tron said:


> East Wind Photography your comments are valuable.
> 
> I will study them line by line (back at home) since I am not sure that everything applies to me 100%
> and I do not want to report more problems that I really have.
> ...



Note that in servo AF spot focus mode should generally not be used unless the subject is pretty still. This applies to both the 7d2 and the 5d3. For the fastest AF use only single point and turn off anti-flicker and iTR. However I've used both for indoor soccer games and can't say that it affected my hit rate in that scenario.

Be mindful that using the moon to afma can be frustrating. Atmospheric conditions can mess up your tests. Same applies for terrestrial heat waves. I try to check it on Eagles or other critters up in trees that are fairly static. Street signs work well or billboards. They are usually high enough off the ground to minimize the effect.

Zone AF per canons manuals state that it will focus on the closest object in the zone pattern. I had a heck of a time at first..nothing would lock except the backgrounds. That's been fixed too. Works just like the 5d3 now.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 23, 2015)

ksgal said:


> I get out of focus images in Zone mode as well. Single point or expanded 4 point seems to nail the shot. I think zone may need to be used with a very specific set of cases (that canon may use in their testing when you send it in) and then it may work better, but I've given up on using zone and AI Servo together - at least for now.



It should lock on the closest item in the zone pattern. There are some conditions where the 5d3 and 7d2 have issues and that's when the background is very bright and the subject is very dark. As in tracking a cormorant across a sunlit tree line. It seems the brighter background overpowers the AF system a bit and can't get a lot. I pretty much just now use single point AF for almost everything and other modes for specialty cases wheni need all AF points or need zone to ensure I get a lock...such as shooting hummingbirds from a remote location.


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## tron (Jun 25, 2015)

I decided to keep my 7D2. Tests with 100-400 II seemed 80-90% successful in Servo mode. Also almost if not all tests with 300 were OK in cases where bird was passing in front of me. I loaded the first set of photos in DPP and I saw that in many cases the AF points were not pointing at the bird. So in cases where the bird was moving away there is a reason for softness. I will continue to make tests but I believe that there is a possibility for user error although the AF system seemed to follow the bird successfully. Most of yesterday's experiments were made with test case 5.


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## tron (Jun 25, 2015)

Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.

Any opinions, facts, observations on that?


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 25, 2015)

tron said:


> Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.
> 
> Any opinions, facts, observations on that?



I set AF-on for center point and the * AE lock button to AF-on center spot. By using either button I can quickly go to regular AF mode or spot AF mode when I need to target a smaller subject.

For birds in flight and sports, back button AF is essential. For servo to work properly you need target the subject maybe a second before you shoot so AF can predict where it needs to be during the shutter fire.

Another benefit of back button AF only is that it's easier to manual focus when you need to. Just take your finger off the button.

I also set the front dof button to switch between servo and one shot and between that and the back buttons I can cover most everything. I wish the 7d2 would let you program a button for single shot silent to high speed drive mode. I guess I need to get a 1dx for that function.


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## tron (Jun 26, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Question: Some may say that using Back Button focusing is faster. Up to now I have not tried it for birds since I do not find it practical. Only for shooting landscapes with a tripod.
> ...


Thanks. I will make some BBF experiments to compare results but I have used EOS cameras the classical way for many years and I will tend to think the other way. It is worth a try though (especially experimenting with the birds moving away...)


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## Valvebounce (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi tron. 
Give yourself a chance on BBF, it will take a while to get used to so don't quit after a short test, also don't swap just before any important event, you will forget to focus some times until you retire your brain to BBF! ;D

Cheers, Graham. 




tron said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 26, 2015)

Yeah thats a good point. It's a habit you need to build to use it quickly and effectively.

Part of the setting is to enable BBF (default for AF-ON) and if you want to go right to spot focus you can set the * button for that. However you also need to set the shutter button for metering lock only. It's separate from the AF-ON setting but it is required to suspend AF in mid pan or to instantly disable AF so you can manual focus while still having metering and IS on and active.



Valvebounce said:


> Hi tron.
> Give yourself a chance on BBF, it will take a while to get used to so don't quit after a short test, also don't swap just before any important event, you will forget to focus some times until you retire your brain to BBF! ;D
> 
> Cheers, Graham.
> ...


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## monsieur_elegante (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi everyone, I'm hoping to get your opinions on this... I had been looking forward to getting the 7D Mark II ever since it was announced, and 2 months ago I finally bought it after selling my t3i. At first I was amazed by everything it has to offer (65 point AF, 10 fps, etc), but soon I got the feeling that something was off with the AF. I felt that it must be because I'm still not adept at using such a sophisticated AF system, and thought, "come on, what are the odds that I got a defective copy?"

But even after using it for 2 months, I couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong. Did some googling and came to this forum. It's not like I've never gotten shots that are tack sharp--it's just that more often than not, the picture looks fuzzy/mushy/soft even when there's no obvious reason for it. I'm still not sure if it's a) a skill issue--just need to learn the camera better; b) a real problem with the camera; or c) a mixture of both. Would love to hear your opinions. 

Please take a look at these pictures -- the first (northern mocking bird) is a picture taken with my Canon t3i at ISO 200, 250mm, f/5.6, 1/400s using the Canon EFS 55-250mm IS.

https://flic.kr/p/veK7ir

The second picture (tree swallow) is taken with my 7D Mark II with the exact same lens at similar settings; ISO 250, 250mm, f/5.6, but much higher shutter speed, 1/1000s.

https://flic.kr/p/veK6wM

The 7DmII tree swallow was taken under brighter lighting condition (sunny morning) than the t3i mocking bird (cloudy morning) and at a higher shutter speed -- doesn't make much sense that the mocking bird is still so much sharper (note details in the feathers).

But, as I said, there are also times when I end up with shots that make me think, "nah, there's nothing wrong with this camera," like these two pictures, both taken with the same lens (although stopped down significantly and at close to minimum focusing distance, so not exactly a fair comparison with the t3i mocking bird picture).

https://flic.kr/p/veMRB6
https://flic.kr/p/uWQNyN

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions.


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## tron (Jun 27, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> Yeah thats a good point. It's a habit you need to build to use it quickly and effectively.
> 
> Part of the setting is to enable BBF (default for AF-ON) and if you want to go right to spot focus you can set the * button for that. However you also need to set the shutter button for metering lock only. It's separate from the AF-ON setting but it is required to suspend AF in mid pan or to instantly disable AF so you can manual focus while still having metering and IS on and active.
> 
> ...


Thank's both of you for sound advise and encouragement. Even without BBF the 3rd attempt was satisfactory (OK that was with 100-400 and had higher ISO due to 5.6 but anyway there were many ultra sharp 300 2.8 pictures).

Up to now BBF is perfect for shooting with tripod static distant scenes ( > 1 Km) where I do not wish the lens to try to focus every time. The temple is rumored to stay in place ;D ... and the moon rising behind it will not fly away 

So for this case this is my favorite method (in conjunction with focus preset)

Two interesting articles I have found are:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9174241280/configuring-your-5d-mark-iii-af-for-fast-action

http://mikeatkinson.net/Tutorial-9-Photographing-Birds-in-Flight.htm


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 27, 2015)

tron said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah thats a good point. It's a habit you need to build to use it quickly and effectively.
> ...



For landscape i just use one shot or manual focus using 10x live view. Though I can see the benefit of using it for this purpose. The problem comes when you have to switch your mindset between BBF and normal front button AF. Too confusing for me. I just use BBF for everything and shut off AF on the front shutter button. Always works the same no matter what subject I'm shooting.

I always try to keep my workflows as simple as possible. Change is tough but if it makes the task at hand simpler then in the long run its worth it. One would think front button AF would be simpler but it's not considering the many exceptions where you would not want the camera to AF on the shutter button.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 27, 2015)

monsieur_elegante said:


> Hi everyone, I'm hoping to get your opinions on this... I had been looking forward to getting the 7D Mark II ever since it was announced, and 2 months ago I finally bought it after selling my t3i. At first I was amazed by everything it has to offer (65 point AF, 10 fps, etc), but soon I got the feeling that something was off with the AF. I felt that it must be because I'm still not adept at using such a sophisticated AF system, and thought, "come on, what are the odds that I got a defective copy?"
> 
> But even after using it for 2 months, I couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong. Did some googling and came to this forum. It's not like I've never gotten shots that are tack sharp--it's just that more often than not, the picture looks fuzzy/mushy/soft even when there's no obvious reason for it. I'm still not sure if it's a) a skill issue--just need to learn the camera better; b) a real problem with the camera; or c) a mixture of both. Would love to hear your opinions.
> 
> ...



So yes the 7d2 is a huge jump from a t3i and the AF system is a not one mode fits all solution like on the t3i. Before we get into the technicals of the AF control settings, it's pretty important to micro focus adjust your camera to your lenses. Everyone here calls it AFMA. It's a tedious process but you can accomplish this by taping a newspaper onto a wall and putting some distance between you and the wall at about the distance you normally use the lens and then again further out. You run through the afma settings on the camera shooting several shots at every 5 clicks on the scale from -20 to +20 and then once you find the sequence that looks the best then shoot several shots at every click plus and minus around it until you can lock in the setting that gives you the sharpest image. For zooms you need to do it at each end of the zoom range. The 7d2 camera has a setting for wide and tele for each lens.

Once that is done, then you can start evaluating the images.

Canon it seems spends a great deal of time making sure the focus is factory adjusted on cameras that dont allow you to make afma adjustments like the t3i. For the 7d2 they just assume you will do this as you want the very best from your lenses and camera.

That aside, the AF system is very complex and it takes some time to figure out the best settings for the job at hand. That being said there are enough 7d2 reports of improperly mounted mirror boxes to warrant concern. However it's difficult to diagnose a mirror box problem until you have the afma locked in. The images you posted that are fuzzy look very much like the focus is off.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 27, 2015)

I never got on with BBF, but I do get on well with back button to turn focus off, I find this far more intuitive and less stressful on my thumb. I also get far fewer non focused shots!


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## dupguy (Jul 17, 2015)

I purchased my 7D MK II in January prior to a trip in Central America. When I came back, I was extremely disappointed with the quality of the images I had captured. Since then I have been trying to understand exactly what was going on with my camera. I had a lot of shots out of focus or when they were in focus, the focus was soft. After sending the camera to Canon twice, I had the body replaced a few weeks ago thx to a special insurance that I had bought when I initially purchased the camera. I then went to test my new body with my *EF300mm f/2.8L IS USM* lens. With the camera mounted on a tripod, AI Servo, Spot AF and Back Button Focus (BBF), I was getting less than 25% of my images in focus...focusing was random and all over the place...so, same issue existed with the 2nd body...yesterday, I decided to disable BBF and use the shutter to start the focus...all of a sudden all my images were extremely sharp and in focus, even when the camera was handheld and the AF point pointing at the eye/head of a great blue heron (very small target)...the images were very sharp and on par with shots taken with my 5D MKIII...I am not a novice with BBF and have been using it for more than 5 years with my 40D, 50D, 5D MK III, and now 7D MK II. The first thing I do when I take the camera out of the box is to turn BBF ON and set the AF to AI Servo. So I am left wondering whether or not there is a conflict (software or hardware or both) with the BBF functionality (AF-ON) and shutter to start the metering and capture...BTW, I am using the latest firmware ver 1.04. *I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue...*


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## GadgetBoy (Jul 19, 2015)

Just a little word to tell you that I'm not the only one to encounter focus trouble with the central focus point with the 7D Mk II and the Canon 17-55 f/2.8. I found another people who describe the same trouble.
The workaround is to use another focus point, which is a shame.
Canon still did not answer to the letter I sent them a month and a half now.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 19, 2015)

dupguy said:


> I purchased my 7D MK II in January prior to a trip in Central America. When I came back, I was extremely disappointed with the quality of the images I had captured. Since then I have been trying to understand exactly what was going on with my camera. I had a lot of shots out of focus or when they were in focus, the focus was soft. After sending the camera to Canon twice, I had the body replaced a few weeks ago thx to a special insurance that I had bought when I initially purchased the camera. I then went to test my new body with my *EF300mm f/2.8L IS USM* lens. With the camera mounted on a tripod, AI Servo, Spot AF and Back Button Focus (BBF), I was getting less than 25% of my images in focus...focusing was random and all over the place...so, same issue existed with the 2nd body...yesterday, I decided to disable BBF and use the shutter to start the focus...all of a sudden all my images were extremely sharp and in focus, even when the camera was handheld and the AF point pointing at the eye/head of a great blue heron (very small target)...the images were very sharp and on par with shots taken with my 5D MKIII...I am not a novice with BBF and have been using it for more than 5 years with my 40D, 50D, 5D MK III, and now 7D MK II. The first thing I do when I take the camera out of the box is to turn BBF ON and set the AF to AI Servo. So I am left wondering whether or not there is a conflict (software or hardware or both) with the BBF functionality (AF-ON) and shutter to start the metering and capture...BTW, I am using the latest firmware ver 1.04. *I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue...*



There have been a number of posts from photographers with AF issues. Some are just lack of proper technique, but a significant number come from experienced photographers who do have camera issues.

Purchasing a 7D MK II from a major retailer with a 30 day exchange policy seems to be a good idea. Just be ruthless about it, test it thoroughly, and don't hesitate to return or exchange a defective camera.

I suspect that the gray market prices are low due to this issue, it may cost less in the long run to pay $200 more and get one that can be exchanged if its bad.


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## digital paradise (Jul 21, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> dupguy said:
> 
> 
> > I purchased my 7D MK II in January prior to a trip in Central America. When I came back, I was extremely disappointed with the quality of the images I had captured. Since then I have been trying to understand exactly what was going on with my camera. I had a lot of shots out of focus or when they were in focus, the focus was soft. After sending the camera to Canon twice, I had the body replaced a few weeks ago thx to a special insurance that I had bought when I initially purchased the camera. I then went to test my new body with my *EF300mm f/2.8L IS USM* lens. With the camera mounted on a tripod, AI Servo, Spot AF and Back Button Focus (BBF), I was getting less than 25% of my images in focus...focusing was random and all over the place...so, same issue existed with the 2nd body...yesterday, I decided to disable BBF and use the shutter to start the focus...all of a sudden all my images were extremely sharp and in focus, even when the camera was handheld and the AF point pointing at the eye/head of a great blue heron (very small target)...the images were very sharp and on par with shots taken with my 5D MKIII...I am not a novice with BBF and have been using it for more than 5 years with my 40D, 50D, 5D MK III, and now 7D MK II. The first thing I do when I take the camera out of the box is to turn BBF ON and set the AF to AI Servo. So I am left wondering whether or not there is a conflict (software or hardware or both) with the BBF functionality (AF-ON) and shutter to start the metering and capture...BTW, I am using the latest firmware ver 1.04. *I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue...*
> ...



Yes. Technique, selecting a simple AF mode and appropriate shutter speeds will take you much further than mucking around with all the settings if you are not that familiar with the camera. There is no reason it should not be able to take an in focus shot in one shot. If my wife who has no idea of how to use it can do it so can anyone. In AI Servo there is no reason you can't get a decent capture using factory settings which is basically case 1 for any steady moving object. 

Case 1 is more than adequate for most moving targets. I did it. I sent mine to Canon but by the time I got it back winter had set in hard and there were not much to work with. It sat for almost 4 months. One day I went birding and shot in cases 1, 2, 5 and 6 and used single, expansion and zone AF for each case and had great success. Case 1 did just a good of a job. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. These were larger birds that were fast as they flew by but they were steady. Not erratic. 

No manufacturer is going to release a camera that takes a month of studying the manual to start to get good shots. If a person has experience and has applied good technique, etc then you they should be getting great shots basically taking camera out of the box and slapping a lens on it. People have done it.


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## Snowbird (Aug 26, 2016)

My post in reply to this thread met with a header:

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 45 days....

have the 7D Mark II AF issues been rectified? 

I started to be interested in this topic when my 7D Mark II gave me so little keepers that I'm beginning to loose faith in it. I'm familiar with the settings and have gone through it many times. Most of the time I would shoot using a tripod and even when the subject ain't moving, with focus locked onto its eye, the end result is a dismay!

I had sent it back to Canon once and the situation remains much the same. My entire setup of the 7DII, 100-400 F4.5/5.6L II and a 1.4X III are back with them again currently for further checks for the past week after I discovered something which doesn't seem normal - I had mounted the camera on a tripod and shot a newsprint some 3-4 metres away with both the mirror up and mirror down using a remote cable release and noticed a distinct shift in the final images....

The Manfrotto carbon tripod with a fluid movie head had all the knobs tightened and was sturdy and the setup was mounted on the telephoto's collar foot and I'm wondering what had caused it? Can it be a mirror box issue? Or is it a sensor issue?

The service centre gladly took it back when I raised the issue and the AF issues that I had and I'm still awaiting for their call ....


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## East Wind Photography (Aug 26, 2016)

Snowbird said:


> My post in reply to this thread met with a header:
> 
> Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 45 days....
> 
> ...



I think the consensus is that the af is about as good as any of the other late models with the exception of the 1dx2 which is a notch better in the keeper rate. My 7d2 focuses pretty flawlessly so if you are not happy with it, I would send it back while it's still covered. 

Is there a possibility that it's the lenses you are using? I use all L series and the two lenses I have that are not, one I MF with for star fields, and the other is used exclusively for video since the Af is in fact slow...but it has an incredible zoom range.


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## rpt (Aug 27, 2016)

East Wind Photography said:


> Snowbird said:
> 
> 
> > My post in reply to this thread met with a header:
> ...


+1

I have no problem with mine.


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## pwp (Aug 27, 2016)

dupguy said:


> I purchased my 7D MK II in January prior to a trip in Central America. When I came back, I was extremely disappointed with the quality of the images I had captured....



So did you break the Golden Rule of testing new equipment before using on a job or taking on a trip?
FWIW my 7D II is highly consistent with great AF, a higher keeper rate than my now retired 1D Mk4.

-pw


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## weixing (Aug 27, 2016)

Snowbird said:


> My post in reply to this thread met with a header:
> 
> Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 45 days....
> 
> ...


Hi,
What's the shutter speed?? Did you off the IS??

Have a nice day.


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## FEBS (Aug 27, 2016)

East Wind Photography said:


> I wish the 7d2 would let you program a button for single shot silent to high speed drive mode. I guess I need to get a 1dx for that function.



Just forget it. The 1Dx is a real machine gun. You will hear it from far. Also 1DxII is still loud compared with 5D3 or 7D2.


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