# Will there be a 7d2 at all?



## Marsu42 (Jun 9, 2012)

With the release of the updated 7d firmware, the writing's on the wall - it's hardly probably that a 7d2 is just around the corner if the year-old model gets a free facelift. So what's your take on Canon's strategy for the mid-price range?


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## moreorless (Jun 9, 2012)

My take would be that the 7D2 is probabley not going to see the light of day until next year and that Canon are updating the current model so it can remain more competitive with the 70D when its released.


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## x-vision (Jun 9, 2012)

No 7DII at all (unless it's FF). 

The upcoming firmware update is a clear sign that we won't see a 7DII at Photokina. 
But the longer Canon waits for the 7DII, the less sense it makes to announce it in the first place. 

The $2000 price range will be taken first by Nikon's D600.
Later, Canon will (very) reluctantly follow. 

So, if a 7DII is ever announced, it will be a FF camera, not 1.6x.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 9, 2012)

It'll get a new AF system so the 19-pt system can go to the 70D. It'll get a higher MP sensor. Some might call those 'killer' but I call them incremental.


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## moreorless (Jun 9, 2012)

x-vision said:


> The $2000 price range will be taken first by Nikon's D600.
> Later, Canon will (very) reluctantly follow.



Do manifacturers need to limate themlseves to a single model in each price bracket?

I think its easy to see Canon selling a 7D mk2 with high level FPS, AF and build at a similar kind of price to a FF model with superior IQ but lesser specs in other areas.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 9, 2012)

moreorless said:


> Do manifacturers need to limate themlseves to a single model in each price bracket?



I've been asking myself the same question, and think: They don't "need" to, but releasing different camera bodies with nearly the same price tag doesn't seem clever marketing-wise because it will confuse customers, which then might go for something else completely. So I think Canon with its well-known marketing will try to avoid this if possible.


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## moreorless (Jun 9, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> moreorless said:
> 
> 
> > Do manifacturers need to limate themlseves to a single model in each price bracket?
> ...



If we were talking entry level I'd agree but once you get up to the level of a potential 7D2 and a FF model at $1500 or more potentiasl buyers are likely to know what there after.


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## poias (Jun 9, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> With the release of the updated 7d firmware, the writing's on the wall - it's hardly probably that a 7d2 is just around the corner if the year-old model gets a free facelift. So what's your take on Canon's strategy for the mid-price range?



Until Canon improves its sensors, why even bother. 7D has awesome AF and does insane FPS. Now with the buffer upgrade, it is just top of the line Canon Crop.

So, there is nothing to upgrade.


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## Albi86 (Jun 9, 2012)

moreorless said:


> Do manifacturers need to limate themlseves to a single model in each price bracket?



They don't, but they do it anyway. Usually they prefer to stick their products in between the competitors' instead of putting them in open concurrence.

As for the 7D2.... yes, I believe we won't see it this year. Canon will wait (not surprisingly) for Nikon to make its move, and then act in consequence. It's likely that we'll see a D600 and a D400 before Canon gives us anything big. At Photokina we will just see the 70D, I guess.

The good part might be that they understood that with this sensor technology they're not going anywhere, so they preferred to wait. But I fear it's the same mummers show with Nikon taking the initiative aggressively and Canon following after a while, releasing something just as good as to be competitive but at a ridiculously higher price.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 9, 2012)

moreorless said:


> If we were talking entry level I'd agree but once you get up to the level of a potential 7D2 and a FF model at $1500 or more potentiasl buyers are likely to know what there after.



I have to disagree, many people walking around with 7d bodies in Berlin are guys who use a kit lens and can hardly find the shutter button - but the camera salesmen talked them into getting something "good" while not getting the most expensive model (5d2, now 5d3). People who are likely to have a clue are 1d owners, but even there seem to be a couple of very well-off amateurs. This forum is biased towards people who are tech geeks.


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## x-vision (Jun 9, 2012)

> ... will be aps-c with killer features at a significantly higher price



Ok, if given the choice, which of these two would you buy if both were priced at $2000: 

[list type=decimal]
[*]7DII with an improved 18mp/1.6x sensor, 10 fps, 61-points AF 
[*]7DII with a 22mp FF sensor (same as the 5DIII), 5fp, 19-point AF system
[/list]


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## Marsu42 (Jun 9, 2012)

x-vision said:


> Ok, if given the choice, which of these two would you buy if both were priced at $2000:
> [list type=decimal]
> [*]7DII with an improved 18mp/1.6x sensor, 10 fps, 61-points AF
> [*]7DII with a 22mp FF sensor (same as the 5DIII), 5fp, 19-point AF system
> [/list]



Interesting question, you should do a poll yourself on this. Personally, for what I shoot I'd like to have the ff version because of the better iq (lens-sensor combination) - that's why I hope Canon will release something like this to replace the 5d2. But I'm not on a big budget, I guess the rest of the world would either get a real 5d3 or want an updated crop 7d2 for tele action shots.

But I'd still like to see a salesmen with a customer in front of him explaining why Canon offers two $2000 bodies, and what the differences are...


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## x-vision (Jun 10, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Interesting question, you should do a poll yourself on this.



Hehe. I will.


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## simonxu11 (Jun 10, 2012)

killer features? since when Canon has killer features


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## Marsu42 (Jun 10, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> killer features? since when Canon has killer features



In enthusiasts' theory, with every new camera body  ... that's why I did this poll, as a reality check before and after. Even with the 650d, many people were convinced it had to have a iq/noise/mp sensor improvement after so many years, so let's see about the $2000 "killer aps-c" 7d2.


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## kaihp (Jun 10, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> moreorless said:
> 
> 
> > Do manifacturers need to limate themlseves to a single model in each price bracket?
> ...


I think you overestimate the marketing angle, and forget manufacturing. Fewer models means less Stock Keeping Units (SKUs) to produce, track and distribute; this is a major driver for having as few models as possible. To marketing, having more models usually means that they can supposedly serve more customers. And they _love_ that.

As an (off-topic) example, the company I work for have 30.000 SKUs (we're a relatively small company). More than half of those sell/ship less than 1 every six months, so a lot of the inventory just sits there, wasting money and stock space. Unsurprisingly, there is a drive from Operations and financials to get rid of those 15.000 non-moving SKUs. But marketing wants to keep a lot of this in order to serve the fringe customers. At an overall cost to the company.


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## DB (Jun 10, 2012)

x-vision said:


> No 7DII at all (unless it's FF).
> 
> The upcoming firmware update is a clear sign that we won't see a 7DII at Photokina.
> But the longer Canon waits for the 7DII, the less sense it makes to announce it in the first place.
> ...



I politely beg to differ with everything that you've said here:

(1) No 7D2 unless FF, well it could be APS-C or APS-H, why make a 5D3 competitor so soon?

(2) The upcoming firmware 2.0 for the 7D could mean that Canon will retain the 7D1 alongside a new 7D2, just as they kept the 5D2 below the 5D3, (btw if you want n entry-level FF Canon it is now the 5D2)

(3) "The longer Canon waits..." I think just about everyone on this forum would disagree with that statement as everyone is complaining precisely how long Canon makes them wait for everything!1

(4) The $2000 price range will be taken 1st by Nikon - you are presuming that Canon will launch a 7D2 @ $2,000 and not say $2,500 (recent history has shown that Canon has surprised people with their pricing policy e.g. 24-70mm mkII and 5D3 as well as 24mm IS and 28mm IS to name but 4 very recent examples)

(5) So if a 7D2 is ever announced (there will likely be a 7D2 given the immense popularity of the original 7D), "it will be a FF camera" - great that you can be so positive in your conviction, but you simply do not know this, nor do any of us, which is why it is marvelous to speculate. 

The original 7D was the first Canon camera designed effectively by Canon users (5,000 professionals responded to questionnaires, then Canon synthesized the results into what we know today as the 7D) who were asked what they would like to see in a crop camera. In other words, Canon specifically designed the 7D as an additional pro-level (mag alloy + weather sealing, high fps etc.) body that gave photographers some extra 'reach' - even look at the users on this forum, at how many of them have a 7D as a 2nd camera. The 1DX consolidates the 1D series, that leaves the 1D1V vulnerable to be discontinued, that opens a niche for a 7D2.


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## unfocused (Jun 10, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> It'll get a new AF system so the 19-pt system can go to the 70D. It'll get a higher MP sensor. Some might call those 'killer' but I call them incremental.



Pretty much agree, although given Canon's recent emphasis on ISO over pixels, I could see them keeping the sensor at 18-20 mp and improving the ISO performance slightly. We might see some improvement in weather sealing. I expect a touch-screen on the back but not necessarily a swivel-screen. Maybe live focus in movie mode, like the T4i (Gotta sell more of those new lenses).

Honestly, that's probably enough for me to upgrade as I'd like to have a second body anyway and I'm not at all interested in full frame.


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## chasn (Jun 10, 2012)

No way a 7Dii. An acquaintance works for Nikon and he opines ( not an official view but one I suspect reflects official thinking) that the future is mirrorless. He tells me a Canon mirrorless, high end is coming, and the future of the DSLR is pro only. If this is the Nikon view it must be the Canon view and you see Sony, Lumix etx already heavily in this boat. Canon now have the 1DX, the 5 Diii and the 7D all targetted at very different markets all at very different price points. Arguably all the camera types required as things stand at the higher end. I have a 7 D which has the reach, the fps, the off camera flash control, the EF-s lens compatibilty and while it may not be able to take pics in total blackness does OK at £900. A lot of hobbyists concentrate on wildlife and sports so for a serious camera it is perfect - a 7Dii at £1500 I think not. The 5Diii will be the wedding camera and the 1 DX the commercial pro camera. Perfect market segmentation . FF entry I think not also - no hobbyist wants FF ahead of 7D unless they are serious enough to go 5Dii and that like me is as well rather than instead. I am sure many on this forum will not agree but there is my twopennorth


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## Marsu42 (Jun 10, 2012)

chasn said:


> No way a 7Dii. An acquaintance works for Nikon and he opines ( not an official view but one I suspect reflects official thinking) that the future is mirrorless. He tells me a Canon mirrorless, high end is coming, and the future of the DSLR is pro only. If this is the Nikon view it must be the Canon view and you see Sony, Lumix etx already heavily in this boat.


I just wrote the same thing in this thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7207.0

Many people disagreed, but I have to say the future is so obvious because the only reason to keep the mirror around is the af systems, and once mirrorless af is competitive enough for joe sixpack it's bye bye traditional dslr. Only the pro bodies will keep the mirror for advanced af and because these people won't want to switch to an evf.



chasn said:


> FF entry I think not also - no hobbyist wants FF ahead of 7D unless they are serious enough to go 5Dii and that like me is as well rather than instead.



You're correct if Canon will keep the 5d2 around - but I don't think so, or they wouldn't have named the 5d3 as it is. It would be extremely unusual to keep the older version of any tech product around for a longer time if the successor is there. And then the question is how Canon will fill the price gap between 7d and 5d3.


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## AvTvM (Jun 11, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> It'll get a new AF system so the 19-pt system can go to the 70D. It'll get a higher MP sensor. Some might call those 'killer' but I call them incremental.



+1 ... exactly!


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## DB (Jun 11, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> You're correct if Canon will keep the 5d2 around - but I don't think so, or they wouldn't have named the 5d3 as it is. It would be extremely unusual to keep the older version of any tech product around for a longer time if the successor is there. And then the question is how Canon will fill the price gap between 7d and 5d3.



...and that is quite some gap, about two grand or so


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## briansquibb (Jun 11, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> killer features? since when Canon has killer features



Think back to the 5DII ...


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

22MP APS-H 61pt AF and 5Dmk3 body 8 to 10 fps $2500


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## briansquibb (Jun 11, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> 22MP APS-H 61pt AF and 5Dmk3 body 8 to 10 fps $2500



Sounds good to me - may need a new name for it - 7DX?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 11, 2012)

Cameras at this level are not like the Rebels where the target market is point and shoot users wanting a upgrade. They do not issue frequent model upgrades that are basically tweaks to the firmware, but wait until there is something meaningful to add. This usually means at least three years.

So far, Nikon has not released a D400 either, but both D400 and 7D MK II will likely arrive this summer.


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## papa-razzi (Jun 11, 2012)

I've been very happy with my 7D. For me the only thing lacking is the IQ at higher ISO. I don't need more Megapixels, FPS, newer AF system, etc. I've been tempted to add a 5DII as a second body along with my 7D, but I've been focusing on building up my set of lenses first. I am also waiting to see if there is an entry level FF that replaces the 5DII or if a 70D or 7DII comes along that solves my better IQ desire with one camera. I expect to sit tight with my 7D for another year before making a move.

I would be disappointed if Canon jacked up the price of a 7DII like they did going from 5DII to 5DIII.
If they improved the sensor and threw in a few other improvements and kept the price close to what the current 7D came out at, I would strongly consider upgrading.


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## Marine03 (Jun 11, 2012)

papa-razzi said:


> I've been very happy with my 7D. For me the only thing lacking is the IQ at higher ISO. I don't need more Megapixels, FPS, newer AF system, etc. I've been tempted to add a 5DII as a second body along with my 7D, but I've been focusing on building up my set of lenses first. I am also waiting to see if there is an entry level FF that replaces the 5DII or if a 70D or 7DII comes along that solves my better IQ desire with one camera. I expect to sit tight with my 7D for another year before making a move.



I currently have a 450D but am in the same boat to a degree.... I think looking at pictures people post the 7D is capable of getting some amazing results and is light years ahead of my current body. However do I get a refurbed Loyalty 7D for 1000 bucks or hope the 7D2 or 70D are with the upgrade for 1500 ish or go with a 5D2 that I know takes great pics but is slow IMO. ( I day dream just thinking about 8FPS all day long)


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> papa-razzi said:
> 
> 
> > I've been very happy with my 7D. For me the only thing lacking is the IQ at higher ISO. I don't need more Megapixels, FPS, newer AF system, etc. I've been tempted to add a 5DII as a second body along with my 7D, but I've been focusing on building up my set of lenses first. I am also waiting to see if there is an entry level FF that replaces the 5DII or if a 70D or 7DII comes along that solves my better IQ desire with one camera. I expect to sit tight with my 7D for another year before making a move.
> ...



i am afraid there is precisely zero chance the 7D2 will be anywhere near $1500


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 11, 2012)

papa-razzi said:


> I've been very happy with my 7D. For me the only thing lacking is the IQ at higher ISO. I don't need more Megapixels, FPS, newer AF system, etc.



The problem is the 7D is already getting near the reasonable limits of how good APS-C can be at high ISO. They could go 1/3 stop better for sure and probably even 1/2 stop better, but more than that and you may be waiting for something that won't arrive, at least not with any sensor at all like the ones they have been using, and even if not there is not a ton of room left to get better anyway. For dynamic range they could improve things a ton though.


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## AvTvM (Jun 11, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Many people disagreed, but I have to say the future is so obvious because the only reason to keep the mirror around is the af systems, and once mirrorless af is competitive enough for joe sixpack it's bye bye traditional dslr. Only the pro bodies will keep the mirror for advanced af and because these people won't want to switch to an evf.



I fully agree with you, that "mirrorless is in the near future" and personally I welcome that. But exactly how "near" is the bright mirrorless future? 

Two important areas are still very much "under construction" today:

1. AF ... yes, we are getting closer ... BUT the 650D hybrid AF implementation really is "first generation" and for sure still has a lot of limitations that keep it from being truly "hi-end" - compared to what current 7D user gruop expects in terms of AF performance.

2. Viewfinder ... the even bigger reason for a mirror box + prism in cameras! The majority of the 7D-target audience [= photo enthusiasts + semi-pro on a budget + pros for focal-length-limited/fast action assignments] would certainly not yet accept even the best current EVFs as an adequate replcement for the 7D viewfinder [not to mention a much larger and brighter FF DSLR viewfinder]. Myself included. 

I expect construction in these 2 areas to take long enough, to definitely require a 7D II [if not even a Mk. III!] to "bridge the gap" until a truly "pro-grade" APS-C mirrorless will come to market. 
Situation is the same for Nikon, btw ... I believe there will be an APS-C D300s successor (D400), because Nikon is not ready for a hi-end mirrorless either. 

The next one or even two rounds of hi-end APS-C DSLRs [7D II ... 7D III] will also be required to help the 7D user-base getting their minds and wallets around the fact that they will also need to buy new lenses - on top of any investment in EF-S and EF glass - if they want to reap the benefit of more compact lenses, working natively, without adapter on their new mirrorless. ;-)


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## Albi86 (Jun 11, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> So far, Nikon has not released a D400 either, but both D400 and 7D MK II will likely arrive this summer.



I don't think so. 7D's new firmware suggests no replacement anytime soon - unless Canon tricked us making us think so in order to keep selling the current 7D at full price.

I'm am sure enough that we will see both D400 and D600 (one for sure at Photokina, maybe both) within the year and before Canon gives us a 7D2.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> They could go 1/3 stop better for sure and probably even 1/2 stop better, but more than that and you may be waiting for something that won't arrive



It's not aps-c itself, but the fact that Canon is pushing mp count which each new sensor iteration so noise isn't substantially improved at 100% crop. We might see this happen again with the 70d: 22mp, a little noise improvement which the current Canon sensor tech can deliver, but iso 800 is still the max. good setting.



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> For dynamic range they could improve things a ton though.



Dynamic range is another, maybe more important matter. If you get more noise at higher iso settings, you can just downsize the picture, so basically the higher mp count doesn't hurt. But downsizing doesn't improve dr, if you've got clipped highlights or flat shadows, that's it.


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## PeterJ (Jun 11, 2012)

One thing I often see in these threads is that a 7D2 might end up being FF. I can just see now all the people who've lost, damaged or had their 7D stolen or generally have money to burn upgrading to a Mk2 wondering why their EF-S lenses don't work, or complaining their lenses don't "zoom in enough". That's one of the most unlikely changes I can see with it keeping the 7D name.

Apart from some AF / sensor incremental improvements I'd find it likely they'd roll in a few fairly low-cost but cool features. 7D can trigger a 580EX using the pop-up flash so maybe the 7D2 will be able to wirelessly trigger a 600EX, maybe a touchscreen and a few things like.


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## nicku (Jun 11, 2012)

My personal opinion:

*YES*, certainly will be a 7D2... The reason is very, very simple: Canon will not let Nikon to reign alone in the Pro/APS-C DSLR segment (witch is a very important and profitable segment'' see D300S and 7D sales''). 

Nikon D400 is just around the corner ( i believe Photokina). Maybe canon will wait until D400 is announced and release the 7D2 in the winter.... or the 7D2 will be APS-H. and the current EF-s lenses will be unusable. who0 knows... I am certain that we will see a 7D2.


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## psolberg (Jun 11, 2012)

lol funny how most are wishing for ever more expensive gear just to have bragging rights when the pro APS-C market has been losing traction to full frame for ages. Just about the last thing the 7DII needs is to bee more expensive since all that will do is justify spending a little more to go full frame.

the 7DII if they ever make it, should keep the price point and stick to improvements over the prior model.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 11, 2012)

psolberg said:


> lol funny how most are wishing for ever more expensive gear just to have bragging rights when the pro APS-C market has been losing traction to full frame for ages. Just about the last thing the 7DII needs is to bee more expensive since all that will do is justify spending a little more to go full frame.
> 
> the 7DII if they ever make it, should keep the price point and stick to improvements over the prior model.



they SHOULD but based on current pricing from canon do you really think thats likely?


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

psolberg said:


> Just about the last thing the 7DII needs is to bee more expensive since all that will do is justify spending a little more to go full frame.



Canon might have thought about this, too, but could have come to the reverse conclusion: They might phase out the 5d2 and keep the 5d3 as the "cheapest" full frame model, thus making sure the gap remains as large as it is now.


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## dlleno (Jun 11, 2012)

I don't see 22MP APS-C -- we already have this cycle's APS-C sensor and it is 18MP. If we accept that sensor development life cycles are longer now then they were a few years back, don't you all think it would be unusual for Canon NOT to use the same 18MP sensor on the xxD and 7D2 as they just introduced in the Rebel? That would at least be historically consistant with the way sensors are introduced and propogate through the APS-C bodies, assuming Canon still sees three segments of the APS-C market. 

Clearly, at least from a marketing perspective, Canon doesn't see the T4i sensor itself making any headlines in the ISO department -- all they are talking about is in-camera JPG processing, which tells me they are not attempting to compete head on in the sensor noise department. interesting to note that this time around they did NOT increment the MP count -- suggesting that this technology cycle isnt' about noise at all it is about hybrid AF and video features. 

So, while hope I'm wrong, the 7D2 is looking kinda boring right now in the IQ/ISO department. To combine a perfected hybrid AF with ISO improvements would require yet another sensor, which to me would be unlilely in a APS-C form factor anytime soon -- but maybe we see this in an APS-H sensor and some new single digit body.


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## iaind (Jun 11, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > It'll get a new AF system so the 19-pt system can go to the 70D. It'll get a higher MP sensor. Some might call those 'killer' but I call them incremental.
> ...



Expect price iro $2500


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## AvTvM (Jun 11, 2012)

iaind said:


> Expect price iro $2500



whatever. The more absurd Canon prices it, the more of their user base will switch to Nikon.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> whatever. The more absurd Canon prices it, the more of their user base will switch to Nikon.



But at the same time, they might gain more users for expanded video capability which would have to buy much more expensive cams if Canon wasn't around. So for their profit - and this is what matters to a company with quarterly reports - this and going premium with ff bodies & lenses it might be a winning strategy.


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## AvTvM (Jun 11, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > whatever. The more absurd Canon prices it, the more of their user base will switch to Nikon.
> ...



it may quickly trun into a losing strategy when next gen Nikons hammer Canon DSLRs also in video capabilities. Personally I consider video on a DSLR a complete and utter mis-match. Video is a mirrorless game. Why on eartj would videots want a flip-flap mirror, prism and OVF as obstacles in the light path?


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## Marsu42 (Jun 11, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> Video is a mirrorless game. Why on eartj would videots want a flip-flap mirror, prism and OVF as obstacles in the light path?



Exactly - and my take is that this is the way Canon is going, so the upcoming Ex-Rebel bodies will more like be video cams with ef mount and bonus still shooting capability which is certainly an advantage over the competition. They're currently releasing lenses for this strategy, and testing out the first incarnation of the sensor - once it works adequately, it's bye bye mirror & ovf in this class. The ovf dlsrs will move up at the same time, until maybe 10 years from now only pro models will have a mirror for superior af capability.


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## briansquibb (Jun 11, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> it may quickly trun into a losing strategy when next gen Nikons hammer Canon DSLRs also in video capabilities.



Time to turn off the pro Nikon anti Canon switch

Without evidence that statement is nothing but the words of a troll


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## preppyak (Jun 12, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> it may quickly turn into a losing strategy when next gen Nikons hammer Canon DSLRs also in video capabilities.


Good luck getting that to happen...gonna be awful tough for Nikon to make those cameras without the Sony sensor. And I can't see Sony being pumped about Nikon releasing an affordable killer video DLSR that cuts into the profits on their video cameras.

Have you seen the "uncompressed" video out from the D800? It looked pretty bad when people tried to post-process it. 

Anyway, back on topic, I see a 7dII coming out next spring, and the sensor will reflect whatever the 70D gets (18mp, 22mp, etc). The AF will be an APS-C version of the 61pt AF (so probably 40ish), and the FPS will reflect what Dual Digic V can do (8-10fps). So, its a mix of incremental changes (passing down elements Canon already has), but I think many 7D users would be happy with the upgrades as a whole. Probably priced a little higher than the 7D is now, but still <$2k.

I think Canon remembers that their enthusiast market isn't as deep-pocketed as their pro's. And they also have less investment in their system, so making them mad loses them a customer base


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## dlleno (Jun 12, 2012)

preppyak said:


> Anyway, back on topic, I see a 7dII coming out next spring, and the sensor will reflect whatever the 70D gets (18mp, 22mp, etc). The AF will be an APS-C version of the 61pt AF (so probably 40ish), and the FPS will reflect what Dual Digic V can do (8-10fps). So, its a mix of incremental changes (passing down elements Canon already has), but I think many 7D users would be happy with the upgrades as a whole. Probably priced a little higher than the 7D is now, but still <$2k.
> 
> I think Canon remembers that their enthusiast market isn't as deep-pocketed as their pro's. And they also have less investment in their system, so making them mad loses them a customer base



certainly plausable. also consider that Canon might pull the same thing for 7D2 as they did for 7D1 -- a brand new sensor at the technology frontier for APS-C. 

The thing about the enthusiast's pockets is how will Canon address the wildlifers and BIFers out there, i.e. 1D4 market. If there is no APS-H body, then these folks will be forced into the 1DX (a stated strategy) but those who like the reach will also turn to the premium APS-C body, in which case 7D2 might get pushed into being a little more "1D" like, spreading the distance even furher between the three 1.6x bodies.


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## briansquibb (Jun 13, 2012)

dlleno said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, back on topic, I see a 7dII coming out next spring, and the sensor will reflect whatever the 70D gets (18mp, 22mp, etc). The AF will be an APS-C version of the 61pt AF (so probably 40ish), and the FPS will reflect what Dual Digic V can do (8-10fps). So, its a mix of incremental changes (passing down elements Canon already has), but I think many 7D users would be happy with the upgrades as a whole. Probably priced a little higher than the 7D is now, but still <$2k.
> ...



Wildlife/sports is hard without the 1D body and features - you have to shoot in portrait quite often - like runners etc.

I do shortrange static birding on the 1DS3 as the picture IQ is so much better and often sports events on the 1DS3 too. 

I could easily use a 1DX however an A3 print IS better with 21mp than 18mp - 18 is not quite enough with modern hires printers. 

A 1 series, 24mp with 8fps would be an awesome camera - with AF with f/8


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## sanj (Jun 13, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> moreorless said:
> 
> 
> > If we were talking entry level I'd agree but once you get up to the level of a potential 7D2 and a FF model at $1500 or more potentiasl buyers are likely to know what there after.
> ...



true!


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## Marine03 (Jun 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I could easily use a 1DX however an A3 print IS better with 21mp than 18mp - 18 is not quite enough with modern hires printers.



18 not enough for an A3 print size????????? come on by the house later for a beer I'll show you a 40x28 that I shot with 12 MP and it was more than enough. A3 is like a 5MP shot.  :


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## briansquibb (Jun 13, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I could easily use a 1DX however an A3 print IS better with 21mp than 18mp - 18 is not quite enough with modern hires printers.
> ...



Sure I know it can be done - however to get max detail at native resolution you need more. My 1D4 images are at larger then life for a portrait - but not the resolution I want.


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