# Will the 70d have a new sensor?



## akiskev (Feb 28, 2013)

I believe that it will have the same 18mp sensor (hope Canon will prove me wrong!). In fact I think that Canon will introduce the new sensor in 7d ii..

Of course a camera is a lot more things than the sensor and Canon cameras are great overall, but it 'd be nice to see a new aps-c sensor!


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## dlleno (Feb 28, 2013)

Me thinks new incremental improvements within the legacy technology. That is...like 6d over 5d3. Otherwise 70d would steal the 7d2 thunder


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## perperub (Feb 28, 2013)

Neither the 70D nor the 7D mkII will have same or better low ISO-performance. Not a chance. Crop vs FF etc.


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## rs (Feb 28, 2013)

Four FF bodies in the current line up (if you include the 5D mk II), and four different sensors (22MP, 21MP, 20MP and 18MP). Six crop bodies in the current line up (7D, 60D, 650D, 600D, 1100D, EOS M), just two sensors - 18MP and 12MP - if you count the with PDAF and without PDAF versions of that 18MP sensor as one.

I can't see any reason to carry on with using just one sensor across the range other than entry level - why not develop more than one, like they have in their FF cameras? They sell so many more crop bodies than FF, you'd have thought if they were going to share tech anywhere it would be in the FF range, not crop.

_If_ Canon start to show the same level of R&D in crop sensors as they do in FF, there's no reason why the 70D couldn't come with a new sensor, followed by the 7D with yet another.


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## dlleno (Feb 28, 2013)

Yes the major differentiation points will be in pixel pitch and AF . But within the same general technology cycle there are incremental improvements in the raw output of the sensor itself and I expect we will see this in the crob bodies too


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## pierlux (Feb 28, 2013)

My guess and my hope: 1100D/T3 replacement with the old 18MP sensor and digic V, 60D and 650D/T4i replacements with a new 24MP sensor and digic V, 7D replacement with a new 18-20 MP sensor and dual digic VI. I'm optimistic. Please don't ask why I'm hoping for no more than 20MP on the 7D2...


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## dlleno (Mar 1, 2013)

pierlux said:


> My guess and my hope: 1100D/T3 replacement with the old 18MP sensor and digic V, 60D and 650D/T4i replacements with a new 24MP sensor and digic V, 7D replacement with a new 18-20 MP sensor and dual digic VI. I'm optimistic. Please don't ask why I'm hoping for no more than 20MP on the 7D2...



Dual digic will be reserved for 7d2


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## rs (Mar 1, 2013)

pierlux said:


> Please don't ask why I'm hoping for no more than 20MP on the 7D2...


You said don't ask, but I can't resist  To get the frame rate as high as possible?


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## distant.star (Mar 1, 2013)

.
Yep.

Next generation of crop sensor starts now. Kiss the venerable 18mp goodbye.


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## brad-man (Mar 1, 2013)

Nope. 70D will be an updated version of existing sensor. The _new_ tech is reserved for the 7Dll...


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## timmy_650 (Mar 1, 2013)

I thought they change the sensor in the t4i compared to the t3i, they left it at 18mp. Googled it and it said both ways but there are small changes one the spec page with the total pixels. 
So my guess is it will be the same sensor was the t4i and stay at 18mp. I am really happy with 18 mp , if it is good enough for the 1Dx, it is good enough for me ha ha. Now if i could only get the 1DX


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## ahsanford (Mar 1, 2013)

Agree with those saying that the 70D will not have a new sensor. The 70D can't be perceived by customers as the top of the line APS-C. But given how old the 7D1 is, people may believe that the 70D is better anyway.

For that reason, I'm really surprised the 7D2 isn't coming out before the 70D. It's far more logical to go like this:

Lead with 7D2 --> extra processor for highest burst, brand spanking new sensor, 1DX / 5D3 AF, high-end $2k offering, etc.
Stagger 70D 6-12 months later --> just one processor for modest burst, that same 7D2 sensor, a 7D1-like AF
Stagger the next Rebel after that --> same 7D2 sensor but with nerfed AF and burst

- A


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## pierlux (Mar 1, 2013)

dlleno said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > My guess and my hope: 1100D/T3 replacement with the old 18MP sensor and digic V, 60D and 650D/T4i replacements with a new 24MP sensor and digic V, *7D replacement with a new 18-20 MP sensor and dual digic VI*. I'm optimistic. Please don't ask why I'm hoping for no more than 20MP on the 7D2...
> ...



That's exactly what I'm saying! 



rs said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > Please don't ask why I'm hoping for no more than 20MP on the 7D2...
> ...



Yesssss! And to have better IQ in terms of DR and noise over a higher density sensor. I said 'my guess and my hope' because I would like to own both the 7D2 and the rumored high MP FF by the end of 2014 . But that's me, presently having a 5D2, which I'm going to keep, anyway! 8)


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## pierlux (Mar 1, 2013)

ahsanford said:


> It's far more logical to go like this:
> 
> Lead with 7D2 --> extra processor for highest burst, brand spanking new sensor, 1DX / 5D3 AF, high-end $2k offering, etc.
> Stagger 70D 6-12 months later --> just one processor for modest burst, that same 7D2 sensor, a 7D1-like AF
> ...



Not from a marketing perspective, in my opinion. Moreover, in recent times Canon used to respond soon after Nikon's proposals, at least that's what happened over the past 5-6 years or so. Now, the D7100 is out and the 70D is supposed to be its competitor, whereas we know nothing about the Nikon D300s replacement other than rumors - not many, no need for Canon to rush with the 7D2 in this respect.


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## dlleno (Mar 1, 2013)

ahsanford said:


> Agree with those saying that the 70D will not have a new sensor. The 70D can't be perceived by customers as the top of the line APS-C. But given how old the 7D1 is, people may believe that the 70D is better anyway.
> 
> For that reason, I'm really surprised the 7D2 isn't coming out before the 70D. It's far more logical to go like this:
> 
> ...




No one can prove that the March DSLR isn't the 7d2


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## distant.star (Mar 1, 2013)

dlleno said:


> No one can prove that the March DSLR isn't the 7d2



Hell, we can't even prove we exist!

One step at a time, sparky!


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## pierlux (Mar 1, 2013)

dlleno said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Agree with those saying that the 70D will not have a new sensor. The 70D can't be perceived by customers as the top of the line APS-C. But given how old the 7D1 is, people may believe that the 70D is better anyway.
> ...



I really hope it's the 7d2, but I suspect the 7d2 will be Canon's next year cam, and will come like the 5d2 did, with a black backlit profile showing on Canon websites all over the world for a few days and then loud announcements with fanfare, and it will have amazing specs. In other words, I'll trade early availability with the possibility for Canon of equipping it with amazing hardware for amazing specs any day. Maybe I'm dreaming, but let me hope aloud


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## RLPhoto (Mar 1, 2013)

I doubt it, but I'd love to be wrong on this one.


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## unfocused (Mar 1, 2013)

distant.star said:


> .
> Yep.
> 
> Next generation of crop sensor starts now. Kiss the venerable 18mp goodbye.



Agreed. They have to start somewhere. Might as well be the 70D. Nothing says the 7DII has to have the same sensor as the 70D either. As has already been pointed out, every full frame model has a different sensor. 

I'd expect 22-24 MP for the 70D to match Nikon's D7100 and then 20-22 MP in the 7D with the emphasis on better high ISO performance.


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## TheBadger (Mar 1, 2013)

I say yes. Otherwise this baby will be DoD!


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## x-vision (Mar 1, 2013)

dlleno said:


> Me thinks new incremental improvements within the legacy technology.



+1

My perdiction is that the 70D will have a new 20mp sensor based on Canon's old tech.


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## x-vision (Mar 1, 2013)

dlleno said:


> No one can prove that the March DSLR isn't the 7d2



It will be a surprise if the 7DII gets announced first. I'd be glad if you are right, though 8).


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## greger (Mar 1, 2013)

I may be wrong, but March new camera will be 70D with an new sensor slightly faster frame rate 7.5 fps and better
noise handling. ( less noise in low light) Then everyone will be talking about the never to be 7Dll. The 70D will reclaim the
top APS-C spot in the Canon Lineup for the XXD's. If it has an articulating screen it will sell and sell.


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## CarlTN (Mar 1, 2013)

The 70D will get an 18mp 1.6x sensor, the 7D2 will get something else. The 70D's sensor might be claimed as a new design, but I doubt it will be. If it truly is new, it will be 20 MP, but the 7D2's will be more, and will likely still be claimed to have even more dynamic range and ISO range.


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## CanNotYet (Mar 1, 2013)

I think the March announcement indeed is the 70D. I also think it will be the first camera with Canons new 180 nm process at around 24 mp and single Digic 5 for modest FPS. Wifi and GPS is a given, especially if it is 60D build. I think it will get a variant of 6D AF also for good low light photos and video.

I think 7D2 will also have a new sensor with same 180 nm process, but stay at 18 mp to be the FPS/Hi-ISO monster we all want. Basically a crop 1DX.

The reason for this is for Canon to put out the new sensor in a lower prestige body to get feedback for final spec of 7D2 before they announce it. It also gives the 7D2 a longer time as "latest and greatest crop body", as if the higher mp XXD is release after, it would pull down 7D2 prices. But if released before, the 7D2 lower mp can be marketed as "better", and as a consequence, will not be as sensitive for the next XXD upgrade, as that will certainly have even higher mp count.


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## aj1575 (Mar 1, 2013)

I think Canon will introduce a new APS-C sensor starting with the 70D. It will be the first DSLR sensor from Canon made in a 180nm process (they are still using a 500nm process at the moment; Sony is already using a 180nm process). This process is probably one of the main reasons why Canon lags behind Sony and Nikon.

The old 18MP sensor is just to old now. Canon will not get away with putting this sensor, which is almost 4 years old, in a new camera for advanced amateurs. It lags behind just too much.

Another hint is, that all rumors point towards a 24MP sensor (this goes for the 70D as well as for the 7DII and the next EOS M body). That would mean it is a new sensor.


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## aj1575 (Mar 1, 2013)

CanNotYet said:


> I think the March announcement indeed is the 70D. I also think it will be the first camera with Canons new 180 nm process at around 24 mp and single Digic 5 for modest FPS. Wifi and GPS is a given, especially if it is 60D build. I think it will get a variant of 6D AF also for good low light photos and video.
> 
> I think 7D2 will also have a new sensor with same 180 nm process, but stay at 18 mp to be the FPS/Hi-ISO monster we all want. Basically a crop 1DX.
> 
> The reason for this is for Canon to put out the new sensor in a lower prestige body to get feedback for final spec of 7D2 before they announce it. It also gives the 7D2 a longer time as "latest and greatest crop body", as if the higher mp XXD is release after, it would pull down 7D2 prices. But if released before, the 7D2 lower mp can be marketed as "better", and as a consequence, will not be as sensitive for the next XXD upgrade, as that will certainly have even higher mp count.



Funny, we posted some of the same idea almost the same minute.

I complety agree with what you said, and I'm really looking forward to the new APS-C sensors; I wonder how they will perform.


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## CanNotYet (Mar 1, 2013)

Hehe, FIRST!


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## Plainsman (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm with those that think the existing 18Mp will be in the 70D if it is the first of the 7s out - but it could well have AFMA which would be very useful.

For marketing purposes I think the 700D will have the new sensor as the 7D2 - perhaps 24Mp but maybe 21Mp.

If the 700D was coming out first then all three would have sensor upgrade IMO!!!

A bit convoluted - but don't rule out 21Mp - which would fit in with the general conservatism of Canon designers whose motto is slow but steady.


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## pedro (Mar 1, 2013)

Hope so, I'd like to see Canons R+D to materialize! Because if it doesn't happen in current outings, how will it in the higher priced bodies...would be a nice indication that Canon is handling certain issues discussed here.


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## well_dunno (Mar 1, 2013)

I voted "yes" but I am highly inaccurate in my guesses about what Canon will do so prepare for diappointment ;D


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## JohanCruyff (Mar 1, 2013)

7D2 is likely to have the new sensor.
70D... maybe someone can stress that a 70D released before the new 7D2 could initially affect 7D1 sales, but if Canon sticks to the same 18Mpx sensor for 70D, considering that it will be on sale until (my 2 cents) 2015... I just can't imagine that a 2009 sensor can survive for such a long time in the Digital Age.


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## CarlTN (Mar 1, 2013)

JohanCruyff said:


> 7D2 is likely to have the new sensor.
> 70D... maybe someone can stress that a 70D released before the new 7D2 could initially affect 7D1 sales, but if Canon sticks to the same 18Mpx sensor for 70D, considering that it will be on sale until (my 2 cents) 2015... I just can't imagine that a 2009 sensor can survive for such a long time in the Digital Age.



I _can_ imagine it, especially given how long Canon have kept the sensor alive up to now. We've actually been in a "digital age" since the 1960's, or before...what things are digital, and what are not, is what changes...along with the nature and quality of digital.

It is still funny to me, to hear downloaded music described as "digital"...as if its the first digital music. CD's were the first consumer-oriented digital music...and their format is still higher resolution than MP3, because MP3 is "lossy", by design. (There are other compression formats that aren't lossy, but nobody seems to care about those.) MP3 was a compromise designed to save memory space. It's certainly not more advanced than "CD quality" music...and there are other formats superior to CD.

So that leaves us with what's really always the determining factor: What will the market demand, and what are they willing to pay for it? "The Digital Age" is a meaningless descriptor now. Someday in the future, our kids or grandkids will laugh at us when they see pictures or video of us walking around oblvious to our surroundings, as we obsess over texting or browsing on our smartphones. The present "digital age" will just be thought of as "quaint" in the future...of course...assuming there isn't a collapse of civilization...which can't be ruled out.


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## risc32 (Mar 1, 2013)

CarlTN, I have no idea what your trying to say. 
As an aside I think mp3 were more about saving bandwidth than memory, but at this point, really, who cares? 

if they do another 18mp 7d sensor rehash they will be making a huge mistake. Now I don't care much if the megapickle count stays at 18. that's fine, but it had better be a damn site better then what they are dishing out now. 

- i already laugh at everyone walking through life addicted to dumb crap like smart phones, and facebook.


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## zim (Mar 1, 2013)

Yes it will have a new sensor....
New sensor > 18MP, Digic 5, 500nm production line


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 1, 2013)

Depends what you mean by new sensor. It may well have a tweaked 18MP sensor that is new or some 20-24MP sensor that is new. But it sounds to be too early for any truly new, new process sensor. I just hope we get that even for the 7D2/3D/5D4.


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## jrista (Mar 1, 2013)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Depends what you mean by new sensor. It may well have a tweaked 18MP sensor that is new or some 20-24MP sensor that is new. But it sounds to be too early for any truly new, new process sensor. I just hope we get that even for the 7D2/3D/5D4.



I can see the 70D getting a "tweaked" 18mp sensor. That is more what the 5D III's sensor is...it was "new", but more of an evolution on the 5D II sensor, rather than a revolutionary new sensor.

I seriously hope the 7D II gets something revolutionary. Canon keeps claiming they have something radical in the pipe....but nothing more than a claim. Would be nice to see it realized in something physical...soon.


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## CarlTN (Mar 2, 2013)

risc32 said:


> CarlTN, I have no idea what your trying to say.



Looks like you got the gist of it to me.


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## dlleno (Mar 6, 2013)

jrista said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Depends what you mean by new sensor. It may well have a tweaked 18MP sensor that is new or some 20-24MP sensor that is new. But it sounds to be too early for any truly new, new process sensor. I just hope we get that even for the 7D2/3D/5D4.
> ...



+1 on that. tweaked or evolutionary or even incremental -- the words themselves don't matter much and may be splitting hairs anyway. what the new Canon bodies need is sensors from a new generation 180nm fab process. short of that, we are facing "tweeked" or otherwise evolutionary or incremental updates. I Think the show to watch will be what body Canon decides to show their 180nm cards:


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## jrista (Mar 7, 2013)

dlleno said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



With what...or if...Canon anon decides to show their 180nm cards. I don't think there is any guarantee that Canon actually WILL release a 180nm part this year. I think it is just the supreme hope of the sensor IQ crowd that Canon will step up their game. They pride themselves on the "all in house" design and manufactured approach...and while I believe Canon's steppers can handle subwavelength processes down to 90nm, I don't know if they have a proven ability to pump out high yield commercial products on it.


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## RGF (Mar 9, 2013)

After 3-4 years, hard to imagine that Canon would not improve the sensor


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## weixing (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi,
IMHO, 700D, 70D and 7DII will all using the same new sensor... build quality, focusing speed, frame rate and features available will differential the models. Release sequence will be 70D, 700D and 7DII.

Have a nice day.


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## CarlTN (Mar 9, 2013)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> IMHO, 700D, 70D and 7DII will all using the same new sensor... build quality, focusing speed, frame rate and features available will differential the models. Release sequence will be 70D, 700D and 7DII.
> 
> Have a nice day.



So a $1200 body will have the same sensor as a $2500 + body? Nah.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 9, 2013)

I hope it has a new sensor


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## Albi86 (Mar 9, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



Why not? The 600D has the same sensor of the 7D. It's expensive enough to develop one sensor, let alone several. Manufacturers usually do not differentiate their offer on sensor. If they do, lower-end models will have a _safe version_ of the actually developed sensor - see D800 and D600.

However, usual marketing fashion is to release the most expensive product first. This is to avoid that people potentially willing to spend 2000$ decide that they'd be happy enough with a readily-available 1000$ model instead of waiting for the higher-end one. So with the 7D2 seemingly being the last product to be announced, it might be that it will be the only product with a new sensor. After all Canon has used a old tech for the 5D3, why wouldn't it make sense to use it for a 70D?

Canon recent policy has shown how the company is trying to push customers to buy the more expensive products in the line-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see a let-down 700D, a good enough 70D, and a fantastic 7D2.


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## aznable (Mar 9, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> So a $1200 body will have the same sensor as a $2500 + body? Nah.



yes because a camera it's not just a sensor; think about it in the film days...the sensor was the film, so all the cameras got the same sensors, but they didnt costs the same


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## Don Haines (Mar 9, 2013)

I figure we will find out when the camera is announced. It could go either way. A new sensor is a big thing and when one gets released there will be a lot of noise ( no pun here ) in the camera media. Canon is not going to jeopardize a huge burst of media hype with a leak.


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## CarlTN (Mar 13, 2013)

Sorry guys I still have to bet heavily that a 7D2 will have a different sensor than a 70D. There's just no way they will let you have the "best" sensor for $1200, when they're trying to use it to sell a whole new camera category for twice the price...like a 7D2 in a pro body, in order to use the triple 18650 batteries to achieve 11.7 volts...It's a shame all cameras don't use these, they're fabulous. I've been using them in LED flashlights...and I can't seem to make them use up their charge...3 months later! Of course I don't use them very long on the "high" setting, but still...absolutely annihilates rechargable AA batteries! The whole idea of AA batteries is inferior and out-dated...

It's possible there will be *two new sensors* though...perhaps a 20 and a 24mp. Therefore the old 18mp sensor will finally pass into history...or not.

Or, it's possible that the 70D will be priced closer to the 7D's initial price...in the $1500+ range, body only. In this case, I will grant that _it's possible they both could get the same sensor_. But for $1500, the 70D had better have an AF sensor (and the processing speed to keep up with it), at least equal to, if not superior to, the previous 7D. And max frame rate had better be at least 7fps, if not 8.


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## preppyak (Mar 13, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Or, it's possible that the 70D will be priced closer to the 7D's initial price...in the $1500+ range, body only. In this case, I will grant that _it's possible they both could get the same sensor_. But for $1500, the 70D had better have an AF sensor (and the processing speed to keep up with it), at least equal to, if not superior to, the previous 7D. And max frame rate had better be at least 7fps, if not 8.


If the frame rate on the new Rebel is 6fps, then the frame rate on the 70D better be 7 or 8fps just for it to not fail from the start.


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## rizenphoenix (Mar 14, 2013)

Even if the 70D has the same frame rate there are plenty of ways for it to be a better camera then the rebel such as 100% viewfinder, better AF, dual card slots, top LCD, MFA, magnesium body, better high/low ISO noise, etc.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 14, 2013)

Sooooo much wishfull thinking
Sooooo much scope for massive disapointment


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## J.R. (Mar 14, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> Sooooo much wishfull thinking
> Sooooo much scope for massive disapointment



+1 ... Happens every time!


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## vscd (Mar 17, 2013)

>Sooooo much wishfull thinking
>Sooooo much scope for massive disapointment

For what are you disappointed? For the lack of sensors? I guess the final words were said with the first 5D back
then... I still use it and there are only a few wishes left (sensorwise). I imply that most people didn't use their
existing gear to the max. What sensor should a 70D have? >18MP? Why? There is no reason, at least not for
the people aimed to buy a semipro crop-cam. I really understand that the technology should go further, but the
rising pixels are contraproductiv and the ISO is nice to have. Get a Fullframe and a fast lense... no cropcam.


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## that1guyy (Mar 18, 2013)

I hope Canon isn't stupid enough to put a "tweaked" 18mp sensor in the 70D. That is ridiculous because like I have said in other posts, that means the XXD line will be obsolete until mid 2015. That DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. They can go ahead and put the old sensor in the entry level cameras because they get updated yearly, but the XXD line gets updated 2.5 years. Do you understand?


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## that1guyy (Mar 18, 2013)

rizenphoenix said:


> Even if the 70D has the same frame rate there are plenty of ways for it to be a better camera then the rebel such as 100% viewfinder, better AF, dual card slots, top LCD, MFA, magnesium body, better high/low ISO noise, etc.



Not really. From a marketing stand point, that is all meaningless. People looking to buy cameras will obviously compare the two models. They will see that the cheaper model has the same burst rate and the same exact sensor and will be sold. Canon would be shooting themselves in the foot. I was in Canon marketing, I would push for a new sensor and more features to differentiate the two as much as possible. The 7DII would be way above as a "mini 1DX that costs around $2.5k.


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## daniela (Mar 18, 2013)

Rumors from Japan: 
70D 1200-1500€
7D2 might be over 2500-3000€!!!

The Japanese Rumors say that Canon was surprised about the specs of the Nikon D7100. The D7100 is better and cheaper than the 70D will be.


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## steliosk (Mar 18, 2013)

rather old sensor or even new canon has one major issue..

OVERPRICING

also, there is no mood on developing new radical technologies and when they do, they keep it with minimal standards. compare 5D2 sensor with 5D3, small changes, some maybe in high isos.
Even the 6D has a better sensor than 5D3 but with fewer megapixel 

And not to say that Nikon who used to have small megapixel sensors, now dominates the market more maturely in terms of resolution and noise and banding etc... etc..

My guess is that the new 70D or 7D mark2 or however they wanna call it (since they are completely screwing the names of each line production) will have a new sensor about 20-22 mp not more and of course with the same old and buggy problems such as noise in shadows and banding with an expensive price tag on.

Never understood why 60D is much more expensive than 600D
some more plastic and better ergonomics? so what? in terms of quality is ABSOLUTELY the same and costs almost the double!


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## daniela (Mar 18, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> daniela said:
> 
> 
> > Rumors from Japan:
> ...



Source: Some photographing girl-&boyfriends from youth, when we studied at the art-school, working for an company that works for Canon. Yes, the 7D2 rumors say, that is has more MP. But is priced over the 5DIII. 
70D: Let us see.... We will know in end of spring


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## jrbdmb (Mar 19, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> daniela said:
> 
> 
> > Rumors from Japan:
> ...


If the 7D II is 28 MP I will probably be keeping my 7D I.  No need for a high MP monster with little or no improvement in noise.

And IMHO the 70D *could* get the same upgraded sensor as the 7D II, but there is no way it is going to get it first. If the first camera out is the 70D it will have the same old 18MP sensor. The 7D MK II will get any new sensor tech first.


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## CarlTN (Mar 21, 2013)

It looks like I was correct in my guessing. The 70D will have an 18 mp sensor, a "new" one. This will not be the same sensor that the 7D2 will get.


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## 9VIII (Mar 21, 2013)

daniela said:


> Source: Some photographing girl-&boyfriends from youth, when we studied at the art-school, working for an company that works for Canon. Yes, the 7D2 rumors say, that is has more MP. But is priced over the 5DIII.
> 70D: Let us see.... We will know in end of spring







jrbdmb said:


> Freelancer said:
> 
> 
> > daniela said:
> ...



If, and that's a big if, but if they price the 7D2 similar to the 5D3 I think they could get away with putting an APS-H sensor in it without de-valuing the 1D4 too much.

What would you say to a 28MP 7D2 with a bigger sensor?

I don't actually expect it to happen, but I think it would be a smart move.


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## Canon-F1 (Mar 21, 2013)

9VIII said:


> What would you say to a 28MP 7D2 with a bigger sensor?
> 
> I don't actually expect it to happen, but I think it would be a smart move.



well i could give you a dozend examples what would be a smart move.

including GPS or/and WIFI in the 700D would be a smart move.
would make the camera a real update over the 650D.

but hey this is canon we speak about!


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## Canon-F1 (Mar 21, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> > Will the 70d have a new sensor?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+1


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## RGF (Mar 22, 2013)

Sensor could be 18 MP to take advantage of their manufacturing expertise but have improvements in the micro lenses, electronics for better S/N, greater dynamic range, ...


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## RGF (Mar 22, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > Sensor could be 18 MP to take advantage of their manufacturing expertise but have improvements in the micro lenses, electronics for better S/N, greater dynamic range, ...
> ...



Look carefully andyou will relatively flat response as lower priced cameras were introduced. Exception for Eos-M and 650D (T4i). The latter surprises me as I would have expect the 650D to be on par (at least) with the 600D.

Hopefully 70D and the 7Dii will be step up, but hoping does not produce great camera.


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## Malte_P (Mar 22, 2013)

that annoys me.

even when the differences are not visible, canon should improve their sensors not make them worse. :-[

i guess as the new sensor has a wider hybrid AF area to cover the resulst will be again worse.


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## Firebird (Mar 22, 2013)

I think Canon wants the sensor in the 70D to be a unique selling point compared to the T5i. I believe thats why they put the old 18mp sensor into the T5i while a new 18mp sensor is already available (SL1). I guess the 70D will get the new 18mp sensor.


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## Don Haines (Mar 22, 2013)

Allow me to quote the lyrics from a Doris Day song....

Que sara sara, whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see, que sera sera.

after i finish my tea, I'm going back out to shoot squirrels and chikadees.


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## papa-razzi (Mar 22, 2013)

The only major flaw (as a sports/wildlife) of the current 7D is the sensor. I would upgrade to the 7DII if the camera was exactly the same, but had a new sensor with lower noise at higher ISO.

Therefore, introducing other features and leaving the sensor the same is pointless. I would suspect Canon fully knows this.

What I do believe (but hope not), is that the 7DII will be a significant improvement all the way around - but the price will be significantly higher. Therefore, out of reach for many of the current 7D owners, which will be dissapointing.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Canon 550d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 66
> Canon 600d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 65
> Canon 650d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 62
> Canon 700d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 5?
> Canon 70d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 5?


DxO can take those scores and shove it in their pompous "you know wheres" ... I've seen far too many fantastic images made with every single one of those cameras, listed above, to not take DxO as the word of God.


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## sdsr (Mar 22, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Freelancer said:
> 
> 
> > Canon 550d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 66
> ...



The fact that it's possible to take fantastic photos with a Rebel is not inconsistent with DXO's scores or the trend they imply, and hardly shows that there aren't better APS-C sensors out there.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

sdsr said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > Freelancer said:
> ...


So people can go buy those "better APS-C sensors out there" instead of cribbing here.


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## ecka (Mar 22, 2013)

I just hope to see a new sensor in 7D2 first (Aug-Sep 2013) and then in 70D (may be next year). I don't really care about new crop DSLR, but if Canon puts something interesting into their EOS M successor then I may buy one.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> sdsr said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...


Not as stupid as people cribbing & 8itching here instead of go buying what they feel is a better sensor i.e. do something about your so called "problem" instead of whining.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> well you know sh*t about what others do or not outside this forum.. are you?


 ???


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## CarlTN (Mar 22, 2013)

I still say the "7D2" should get a sensor sized other than 1.6x crop. Whether that is "aps-h" or not, doesn't matter as much...as long as it's bigger than 1.6x. As I think I tried to post in one of these threads (but it seems to have been deleted or blocked...if it wasn't, I can't find it)...

*What I would like to see, is a "1D Mark 5"...a "1Dx killer"...*a crop camera whose sensor is bigger than 1.3x, but smaller than full frame. Say 1.17x...with pixels slightly smaller than the 1D4's. Its photosites were roughly equal to 25 mp if scaled to full frame. 

*So make this 1.17x sensor equal to 26 mp on a full frame*...The width of the sensor would be roughly 31mm, and the actual pixel count would be roughly 19 MP, with frame pixel dimensions 5340 x 3560. This keeps the file size small enough for high speed shooting, and makes use of the best 90% of the lens' image circle...and even makes significant use of wide angle lenses. The total image dimensions allow for roughly 5% better cropping ability than the 1DX allows...and get a lot more than 5% of extra resolving power from even third party supertelephoto lenses...let alone the superlative Canon series 2.

With this, we get a slight crop factor and significantly more reach than even cropping a 5D3's full frame image, and yet we retain much larger pixels than anything in the 1.5x or 1.6x crop arena...for improved ISO noise and dynamic range. Yet the file size is only barely bigger than a 1DX file.

Why tie ourselves to "aps-h", when no lenses are specific to it? It used full frame lenses...

If Canon ever built my proposed "1D5"...I would sell everything I could part with, to buy it...even if it cost similar to a 1DX. Because, given some help with processing and perhaps improved sensor construction, hardware, and AD conversion and layout, etc...the image quality could conceivably be comparable, if not even exceed the 1DX.

This seems like the way to go, especially given the future 46 to 60 MP full frame 1 series body on the horizon. With it, there's no need to keep the sports/wildlife/action camera full frame...because the vast majority of the photography done with one, is not at 14 or 16mm.


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 22, 2013)

that1guyy said:


> Rienzphotoz is the biggest Canon fanboy I have ever seen wow.


So claims the stalker :


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## aj1575 (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm still wondering what sensor will be in the 70D, and when it will come out. It is 2 1/2 years since the 60D came out, so the time would be okay. But who knows how Canons product-pipeline really looks like.
For the sensor, they are squeezing the last bit out of their 18MP APS-C sensor. It stayed basically the same since it came out in the 7D; this could mean that Canon needed its sensor development recources in other areas (a completly new APS-C sensor in 180nm technology). But the old sensor was "newly designed" for the SL1 with a new AF-System on it; this sensor is rumored to be used in the 70D, what would be a big dissapointment (except the sensor was improved in other ways, which I doubt).
To me it makes absolutly no sense to use this sensor in the new 70D; the IQ is just not up to date (look at the D5200 and D7100), why should Canon debut the redesigned sensor in the entry level SL1, and not the advanced amateur 70D? Why does it take them so long to introduce the 70D, when they use an "old" sensor?. As I said, it does not make sense to use the classic 18MP sensor in the 70D, but who knows what Canon is doing, and if they have some kind of problems with their new sensor, or if they are just taking their time to do it right.

I hope we will find out soon, otherwise I will got for the 7D L....


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## CarlTN (Apr 3, 2013)

Aj1575, I'm beginning to think, as I have seen others say on here...that the reason Canon won't give us a great crop camera, is because they want you to buy a full frame camera, and L lenses. They gave us a great, low cost full frame camera (6D), and I guess they don't feel like ever giving us a low noise crop sensor. If they do, it just may well be priced out of its target user base. 

I'm officially giving up on crop sensors, low noise or not...because the demand they put on lens sharpness and focus accuracy, are too high. Better results will always be achieved by a full frame with bigger pixels, bigger image circle, and bigger sensor...especially at the medium and wide focal lengths.


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## pedro (Apr 3, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> aj1575 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still wondering what sensor will be in the 70D, and when it will come out. It is 2 1/2 years since the 60D came out, so the time would be okay. But who knows how Canons product-pipeline really looks like.
> ...


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## Eimajm (Apr 3, 2013)

Whats wrong with the current sensor, I'm very happy it in the 7D. If you want a better sensor buy a full frame camera with appropriate longer lenses. There are thousands or talented photographers making superb images with the current sensors, if your not doing this then a better sensor won't help you.
Crops sensors make cameras affordble, they are not intended to compete with a full frame, its just a cheaper option. If canon actually put a 1.6 crop sensor from the 1DX everyone would be moaning about lack of resolution and ability to print large.
If you want a better sensor pay the money and buy a better one, stop whining why a more affordable camera is not as good as a top end one.


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 3, 2013)

"Skyfall" was shot on the Arri Alexa, "Prometheus" on the Red Epic both have sensors slightly larger than APS-C both films were sharp at the cinema. The Arri Alexa has 8.25micron pixels, the Red Epic has 5.4micron pixels the Sony F55 4.2micron pixels the Canon 7d 4.3micron pixels. However the Alexa has 14 stops dynamic range, the Epic 13 stops (18 with HDR) and the F55 a claimed 14 stops of dynamic range the Canon 7d has 8-9 stops. 

What limits the APS-C market are lenses the EF-S lenses are built to a price and their resolution, cromatic abberations and distortions all contribute to limiting image sharpness. Even some of the L lenses are not up to scratch again price is certainly a limiting factor but so is optical design. That Arri Alexa or Red Epic have lenses costing thousands of dollars, are shot predominately on fixed focal lenghs and when on zooms lenses use designs that most still professtional or amatuers could not afford. Small pixels need high resolution lenses that control cromatic abberations, colour fringing etc. and are matched for nyquist. 

Post-processing can recover some errors but rarely apparent sharpness and when magnifying the finished result which will be enlarged more for APS-C rather than full-frame those weaknesses will show up particularly in low light.


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## aj1575 (Apr 3, 2013)

Eimajm said:


> Whats wrong with the current sensor, I'm very happy it in the 7D. If you want a better sensor buy a full frame camera with appropriate longer lenses. There are thousands or talented photographers making superb images with the current sensors, if your not doing this then a better sensor won't help you.


There is nothing wrong with the current sensor, it is just getting old. I use a 350D, and I can make nice pictures with it. The IQ is okay as long as I stay under ISO400. But after 7 years with it, I like to buy a new camera. The problem is, that I did not wait 7 years to buy a 3 1/2 year old sensor. This sensor is just not state of the art anymore. If I could start from scratch, I would probably go for a D7100 at the moment. It is just the better package right now.
You might be right, that the 7D (60D) sensor is not bad in absolute terms, but compared to a D7100 / D5100 it is just not up to date. You are also right that my images will not improve with a better sensor, but it will allow me to take pictures which I'm not able to take now, because the IQ of a 350D at ISO 1600 is really bad, the 60D/7D are already an improvement, but a state of the art sensor like in the D7100 would be even better.


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## aj1575 (Apr 3, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Eimajm said:
> 
> 
> > Crops sensors make cameras affordble, they are not intended to compete with a full frame, its just a cheaper option. If canon actually put a 1.6 crop sensor from the 1DX everyone would be moaning about lack of resolution and ability to print large.
> ...



Just be nice please.

What Eimajm said is basically true. APS-C is cheaper than FF, and will always be so; but the IQ of APS-C will also be worse that the one of FF sensor (at the same time). these are just facts. If you wan't top quality, then go for FF or medium (medium will always beat FF).
I think, that unless you are a pro, you don't need a FF camera. Which does not mean that you can not buy one if you like; just be aware that you actually could achive the same result in 99% of the cases with a cheaper camera.
For me personaly the question is more, what is the best choice at the moment, and wich is the best moment. I think that right now it is the wrong time to buy a Canon APS-C camera, because Canon needs to make a bigger step then in the recent years. On the other hand, it is a good time to buy a little dated camera for a low price (especially the 60D); the problem is, that it will be very old pretty soon.


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## dlleno (Apr 3, 2013)

aj1575 said:


> ...I think that right now it is the wrong time to buy a Canon APS-C camera, because Canon needs to make a bigger step then in the recent years. On the other hand, it is a good time to buy a little dated camera for a low price (especially the 60D); the problem is, that it will be very old pretty soon.



The only additional suggestion I would make here is that if you are on the fence re: C vs FF, then right now is not the time to buy either one. I would wait until 7D2 and 70D both show their cards, and then decide what that means in terms of the current FF versus the next generation of sensors for both C and FF camera bodies. After 7D2 comes out, with its supposedly wahoo sensor, one may still opt for a 5D3


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## TeQuillaaaA (Apr 3, 2013)

When the canon 70d will be available?


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## J.R. (Apr 3, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> You never get a worse result with higher resolution camera regardless of the lens you are using.



Is that a blanket statement applying to all cameras? : :


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## aj1575 (Apr 3, 2013)

TeQuillaaaA said:


> When the canon 70d will be available?


Nobody knows for sure, but rumors say, there will be an april announcement. The 60D is on the market for 2 1/2 years (which is very long for xxD body) and its prices are at an alltime low. So it could/should come before summer.


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## TeQuillaaaA (Apr 3, 2013)

aj1575 said:


> TeQuillaaaA said:
> 
> 
> > When the canon 70d will be available?
> ...



I hope so ... and whats the price? 900 $?


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## that1guyy (Apr 3, 2013)

TeQuillaaaA said:


> aj1575 said:
> 
> 
> > TeQuillaaaA said:
> ...



Obviously, no one knows the price. I doubt it is as low as $900 though since that is probably the price of the T5i. I'm guessing $1100-$1400 body only.


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## CarlTN (Apr 4, 2013)

jeffa4444 said:


> "Skyfall" was shot on the Arri Alexa, "Prometheus" on the Red Epic both have sensors slightly larger than APS-C both films were sharp at the cinema. The Arri Alexa has 8.25micron pixels, the Red Epic has 5.4micron pixels the Sony F55 4.2micron pixels the Canon 7d 4.3micron pixels. However the Alexa has 14 stops dynamic range, the Epic 13 stops (18 with HDR) and the F55 a claimed 14 stops of dynamic range the Canon 7d has 8-9 stops.



Great info! I loved both movies, and was especially surprised at how good "Prometheus" was. There weren't even any teenage vampire love triangles anywhere during the movie. Some directors still know how to make a good movie that appeals to people older than 19 or so.

I saw Prometheus in an "imax" certified room. The sound is usually too loud there, and distorted, but not with this particular movie. The dynamic impact, the bass slam and extension...reminded me a little of the first Jurassic Park 20 years ago. I have a feeling the soundtrack won't sound quite as good for the 3D re-release of Jurassic, but I will see it anyway.


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## Rienzphotoz (Apr 13, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> J.R. said:
> 
> 
> > ankorwatt said:
> ...


Try Nikon D800 at 36MP with mid range (and below) lenses.


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## Don Haines (Apr 13, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> ankorwatt said:
> 
> 
> > J.R. said:
> ...



I suggest you sell ALL your Canon gear and get a Nokia 808 cellphone. With 41 megapixels it MUST be better.


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## ecka (Apr 13, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > ankorwatt said:
> ...



and it IS BETTER  ... than other cellphones.


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## 9VIII (Apr 14, 2013)

Is it just me or does this thread sound a lot like a bunch of people arguing over the superiority of 4x5 film for street photography and 35mm for landscapes?


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## J.R. (Apr 16, 2013)

9VIII said:


> Is it just me or does this thread sound a lot like a bunch of people arguing over the superiority of 4x5 film for street photography and 35mm for landscapes?



Actually, this thread sounds a lot like a bunch of children arguing over nothing ;D


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## J.R. (Apr 16, 2013)

ankorwatt said:



> J.R. said:
> 
> 
> > ankorwatt said:
> ...



So basically you are telling me that the results of a 18MP rebel are better than the 16MP 1D Mark IV?


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## bereninga (Apr 16, 2013)

ahsanford said:


> Agree with those saying that the 70D will not have a new sensor. The 70D can't be perceived by customers as the top of the line APS-C. But given how old the 7D1 is, people may believe that the 70D is better anyway.
> 
> For that reason, I'm really surprised the 7D2 isn't coming out before the 70D. It's far more logical to go like this:
> 
> ...



I agree with this. The 7D came out before the 60D, so the 7DMkII should be released before the 70D. It makes a lot more sense to go in this order, but hey, Canon doesn't make sense a lot of the time. ;D


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## J.R. (Apr 16, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> J.R. said:
> 
> 
> > ankorwatt said:
> ...



Exactly! That is why I asked you whether your statement applied to all cameras


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## 2n10 (Apr 16, 2013)

I tend to believe that it will have the same sensor as the SL1 which is supposed to be a new design although still 18MP.


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## J.R. (Apr 16, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> yes is does, and read back what I have answered you from the beginning



Guess I must have missed it ... where?


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## jrista (Apr 16, 2013)

J.R. said:


> ankorwatt said:
> 
> 
> > yes is does, and read back what I have answered you from the beginning
> ...



It's the same old runaround bullsh*t JR...just ignore it (I believe Ankorwatt is Mikael, and you know his arguments). You'll get sucked into the rathole so deep you won't find your way out again.


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## jrista (Apr 16, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> sorry, no I said only that you do not lose anything with higher resolution in a sensor regardless which lens you use, look at page 6, do I need to add that OFFCOURSE it is the same sensor size we are talking about
> 
> And I think you are a little bit rude when you are talking about the same bull sh...
> it's derogatory (nice word I found)



Your the type who backtalks, quibbles, beats around the bush, dodges direct questions, obfuscates, etc. in order to make your arguments. If you would just directly answer peoples questions, you wouldn't have so many problems. Because you DO do those things, well...people don't trust you. And, every time you get involved, the conversation tends to go downhill, into the death spiral of you perpetually blanket stating "Canon Sucks", and everyone else trying to present reasonable arguments as to why they don't suck...they just aren't the best of the best at sensors "currently". 

Everyone knows you hate Canon, and no one cares. I'm just curious when you'll actually pick up on that fact...


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