# Manual Focus Lenses: Smarter in F-Mount?



## Albi86 (Sep 22, 2012)

I was wondering, since we all know Nikon lenses can be mounted on Canon bodies but not viceversa, is it not smarter to buy manual-focus-only lenses always in Nikon mount and buy an adapter?

That would minimize the inconveniences of side-grading, and would make expensive lenses such as Zeiss, Voigtländer and Schneider-Kreuznach a very safe investment.

Is there any disadvantage I'm neglecting? Any problem with aperture control?


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## SJTstudios (Sep 22, 2012)

It all depends on your shooting style, manual focus is really fun in photography. If you are doing street or portraits only, it would be nice. But if you shoot sports, wildlife, or landscape, you wouldn't be able to hit tack sharp focus. I carry a voigtlander 40mm f/2 in my bag, because itsngoodmfor m/f. If you make the in envestment in Nikon glass, you wouldn't be taking advantage of a dslr. Maybe start with some cheap canon primes, like the 50 1.8, and the 35 f/2, because they are bad at af. If you enjoy it, buy the Nikon lenses, and then if you want to stop m/f-ing, just sell your canon gear, and you then get a Nikon dslr.


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## Albi86 (Sep 22, 2012)

SJTstudios said:


> It all depends on your shooting style, manual focus is really fun in photography. If you are doing street or portraits only, it would be nice. But if you shoot sports, wildlife, or landscape, you wouldn't be able to hit tack sharp focus. I carry a voigtlander 40mm f/2 in my bag, because itsngoodmfor m/f. If you make the in envestment in Nikon glass, you wouldn't be taking advantage of a dslr. Maybe start with some cheap canon primes, like the 50 1.8, and the 35 f/2, because they are bad at af. If you enjoy it, buy the Nikon lenses, and then if you want to stop m/f-ing, just sell your canon gear, and you then get a Nikon dslr.



Mmmm... my point was a bit different.

I love primes, and I think I would like to MF with lenses built for that scope - much more than with the nifty. Let's keep telezooms out of the equation for now.

I wanted to know if there is some particular disadvantage in mounting lenses with F-mount on Canon cameras via adapter. The great advantage is of course having only one set of lenses (those Voigtländer and Zeiss jewels, mostly) and being free to buy Canon and Nikon bodies at pleasure.


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## RAKAMRAK (Sep 22, 2012)

OP, I see your point. The message is kind of sad . You are loosing long term faith in canon. You are basically half expecting to move to Nikon may in 5 years, or in 10 years, or in 15. 

Once you are going the path of manual focus definitely you have precluded fast moving subjects. However, if you are very efficient in manual focusing then probably you can still do those objects. (as from reading other posts of other posters here it appears to me that many of them actually prefer to do manual focusing with fast moving objects). But for getting the focus confirmation you would need to buy the Nikon-EOS adapters with focus confirmation chips. Other than that I do not foresee any problem with using Nikon mount lenses with Canon. In fact I want to buy the Nikon 50mm 1.2 lens in near future (as the canon version is out of my reach) which is a complete manual lens even in Nikon mount (so technically in your situation). You are already willing to forgo AF and going for the high quality glass of Zeiss (just read about it, never used myself), therefore, I am not sure how you would not be able to take the benefit of DSLRs (as the other replier has said), especially when canon can do stop down metering. To add from personal experience, I sometimes use a Pentax manual lens with adapter on my canon bodies, never faced any problem till now. Even the cheap non-chipped adapter is well machined and a snug fit to both the lens and the camera mount. Everything is manually controlled - aperture and focus. Added a ebay dual 45 degree split microprism focusing screen (brightscreen and katzeye too costly, at least now). I guess if you are buying Zeiss you wll definitely buy brightscreen or katzeye focusing screens which will perform even better than my cheapo focusing screen (not that mine is doing badly for me). So I do not see your problem.

But, die hard canon fans may not be happy at your decision, given that you are standing at the door between Canon and Nikon rather than strengthening the ranks of the Canon users . I would say smart move.


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## Albi86 (Sep 22, 2012)

RAKAMRAK said:


> OP, I see your point. The message is kind of sad . You are loosing long term faith in canon. You are basically half expecting to move to Nikon may in 5 years, or in 10 years, or in 15.



The opposite, I'm thinking of going Nikon now and leave the door open if in the future Canon will be best choice again. 

The problem in switching systems is the loss of money concerning selling your gear and buying some new. I see these MF lenses are very solidly built and thus durable, so they look like an interesting long-term investment, if you can mount them on bodies by different brands. 

Bodies, instaed, come and go anyway every 2-4 years. And I doubt any body will outresolve the Zeiss 100mm anytime soon: on lensrental there's a nice article about how this lens performs much better on the D800E than the D800, a sign that even the D800 is not enough.


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## RAKAMRAK (Sep 22, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> RAKAMRAK said:
> 
> 
> > OP, I see your point. The message is kind of sad . You are loosing long term faith in canon. You are basically half expecting to move to Nikon may in 5 years, or in 10 years, or in 15.
> ...



My bad, that was another possible interpretation of your statement. 

You are quite right in your arguments. And as my long and convoluted reply earlier tried to make this point "I do not see any problem with your plan."

The lenses will be of great quality and in any case you would be doing everything manually with Zeiss, whether you buy in canon or nikon mount. Just that you might not be getting lens info on the EXIF data (if that is an issue at all).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 22, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> I was wondering, since we all know Nikon lenses can be mounted on Canon bodies but not viceversa, is it not smarter to buy manual-focus-only lenses always in Nikon mount and buy an adapter?
> 
> That would minimize the inconveniences of side-grading, and would make expensive lenses such as Zeiss, Voigtländer and Schneider-Kreuznach a very safe investment.
> 
> Is there any disadvantage I'm neglecting? Any problem with aperture control?


As long as its a totally manual lens, you only have to deal with the somewhat klutzy adapters. If I were buying a new lens and it was available in Canon mount, thats the way to go. 
However, in terms of being able to resell a manual lens, having one that could be adapted fit Most DSLR bodies might have the most value.
Not only can a Nikon F lens be adapted to Canon, but also to Sony/Minolta, and a few others. That increases the possible number of users who might want to buy it. Just watch out, many of those old Nikon lenses have odd protrusions or other gotchas.
Of course, buying vintage medium Format lenses with their very long flange distance would allow them to be adapted to almost any DSLR. The old Zeiss Hasselblad Distagon T* lenses are fairly good and low priced for a Zeiss lens. I've adapted one, and I love the smooooth manual focus.


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## Albi86 (Sep 22, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > I was wondering, since we all know Nikon lenses can be mounted on Canon bodies but not viceversa, is it not smarter to buy manual-focus-only lenses always in Nikon mount and buy an adapter?
> ...



Thank you, but I was mostly talking about current DSLR lenses. Doing some maths, I've seen they're less expensive than pro-grade zooms, and offer better quality and higher value over time. Plus, I'm sure it makes photography much more involving and entertaining. 

A setup like Zeiss 28/2, Voigtländer 58/1.4 and Zeiss 100/2 is roughly my idea. Any other suggestion is well accepted!


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## RAKAMRAK (Sep 22, 2012)

what about Zeiss 21mm?

http://diglloyd.com/ has a comparative review of all the Zeiss lenses. But the reviews are for paid subscribers only.


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## Albi86 (Sep 22, 2012)

RAKAMRAK said:


> what about Zeiss 21mm?
> 
> http://diglloyd.com/ has a comparative review of all the Zeiss lenses. But the reviews are for paid subscribers only.



The 21mm is 500€ more expensive and 1 stop slower. Not a good deal to me, for only 7mm less. The 28mm is quite fine  I would consider the much cheaper Voigtländer 28/2.8 but I can't find any review... for free at least


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## elflord (Sep 22, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> I was wondering, since we all know Nikon lenses can be mounted on Canon bodies but not viceversa, is it not smarter to buy manual-focus-only lenses always in Nikon mount and buy an adapter?
> 
> That would minimize the inconveniences of side-grading, and would make expensive lenses such as Zeiss, Voigtländer and Schneider-Kreuznach a very safe investment.
> 
> Is there any disadvantage I'm neglecting? Any problem with aperture control?



SLR lenses with mechanical apertures will also play well with mirrorless cameras. 

You lose AF confirmation and lens exif as others have pointed out. Otherwise I don't see much reason not to use it. The adapters are a slight inconvenience, it just adds one extra step to changing lenses. If it really bothers you, adapters are cheap enough that you could just permanently mount each lens on an adapter.

Because you don't have focus confirmation any more, you will probably want a good focusing screen -- no down side to replacing the focusing screen if your glass is all f/2.8 or faster. Canon have an alternative screen if you have a 5DII or 1 series, otherwise get an aftermarket like katzeye or brightscreen.


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## ontarian (Sep 22, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > I was wondering, since we all know Nikon lenses can be mounted on Canon bodies but not viceversa, is it not smarter to buy manual-focus-only lenses always in Nikon mount and buy an adapter?
> ...



Not all adapters are Klutzy (good term!), just most. Of course I'm biased, I make adapters (that are 5X more expensive than the norm).


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## ontarian (Sep 22, 2012)

Canon people like shooting Canon lenses. This is true in my case and I'm sure its true for many, many others. Unfortunately Canon orphaned their line of fantastic manual focus lenses when they went to the EOS mount in 1987 with a longer lens registration distance. The only adapters that would make infinity focus had to be optically corrected which stole light and added distortion so a pro lens started acting optically worse than the cheepest entry level zooms.

This is why I make mount swap kits, not quite adapters but replacement mounts. This brings those great lenses back to play in EOS for us Canon fanboys.

-Ed Mika


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## Aglet (Sep 22, 2012)

I've bought a whole whack of old Nikon MF primes, I love using them on my nikon digital bodies since I often shoot all manual anyway and there's nothing like those old, all-metal lenses for precision focus and feel. I missed being able to use my old Canon FDs.

I have a cheap adapter ring I also use to mount them onto EOS bodies when I feel the need, but mostly that's only when I'm shooting on my IR-converted 50D as none of Canon's modern lenses seem to be able to focus at IR wavelengths.

There's a much better adapter ring by Novoflex which would allow you to even set the aperture on newer G-series F-mount lenses but that adapter's prices is likely a couple hundred by itself but supposed to be better than the cheap stuff you get from eBay or similar.

So, if you like shooting with old F-mount glass, GO FOR IT! 
They work great and the performance/$ beats much of the newer stuff and few, except Samyang, Zeiss and Voightlander can match the feel these days.


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## weekendshooter (Sep 22, 2012)

Buying MF lenses in F mount will also allow you to use them on Nikon bodies (obviously!), which as far as I can tell have a better focus confirmation system than Canon's. 

On my D700, I have three indicators in the bottom corner of the viewfinder: left and right arrows and a dot in the middle. The dot confirms focus and the arrows tell me which way to go if I'm not there yet. It works very very well and makes MF a breeze. It looks like this: <| O |> and it works for whichever AF point I choose, not just the center.

Moreover, no chip is required for this to work, as Nikon has built this compatibility into their AI/AI-S standards that have been in effect for some time (not quite sure which designation of lenses is fully compatible with MF confirmation, since there are so many classifications, but suffice to say it's most lenses built in the past 20-30 years).

Can someone with a higher-end (5D2/3 -> 1Dx) Canon body chime in here? I only remember having one focus confirmation dot on my old XSi, and I believe the lens needs to be chipped for that to work at all, which some manufacturers don't do.

Apologies if I've misconstrued Canon's focus confirmation system; I'm only speaking from memory.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 23, 2012)

ontarian said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Albi86 said:
> ...


You are excused ;D I'm a fan of your Canon FD to EF products.
I did not realize that you made Nikon to other Body adapters.


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## dr croubie (Sep 23, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> As long as its a totally manual lens, you only have to deal with the somewhat klutzy adapters. If I were buying a new lens and it was available in Canon mount, thats the way to go.
> However, in terms of being able to resell a manual lens, having one that could be adapted fit Most DSLR bodies might have the most value.
> Not only can a Nikon F lens be adapted to Canon, but also to Sony/Minolta, and a few others. That increases the possible number of users who might want to buy it. Just watch out, many of those old Nikon lenses have odd protrusions or other gotchas.



I'll weigh in here, because i've got more lenses via adapter than normal EF mount lenses.
Firstly, my Samyang 35/1.4 (and other Samyangs too). Purely mechanical, there's no linkage at all. Sometimes I wish i'd gotten it in F-mount, then put an F-EF adapter with chip on it. Instead, I bought an AF confirm chip, and glued it on myself. It's not the best glue-job, so sometimes it's a bit iffy, but I can work with it. No downsides to going with adapters, except for what I'll write at the bottom.

Now, Z-E Zeiss lenses. I don't have any (i wish), but as far as I know they're not purely mechanical. Do they not use electronic aperture? Or at least have focus confirm / EXIF? That puts them a step above Samyangs if they do, so in that case using an adapter would be a disadvantage.


As to Spokane's comment about resell being higher on more adaptable (ie F-mount) lenses, that's true in theory. The theory only works if everyone knows about adapters, and I'm pretty sure not everyone does. I've actually noticed in practice, some ebay auctions (for ZE / ZF) glass, the ZF goes for less than the ZE. (although Leica R is priced well above the rest, that's more because of the 'Leica' badge than the long-flange distance).

Also, afaik there isn't an Alpha - EF adapter. Or if there is, i haven't heard about it (or probably you meant F goes on Alpha, not Alpha on EF?)
I've got OM lenses on one adapter (tokina 17/3.5, two 28/2.8s, and a 50mm macro, plus the OM bellows set).
I've got a PK lens (MIR 20/2.5, but when I use the rear screw-in colour filters for B+W it hits my EOS 3 mirror), not as nice because it's hard to get off, need one adapter per lens.
M42 i've got heaps of Takumars and otherwise, one thing with them is that the lens is never up the right way (except for Teles on which you can rotate the mount).
And Medium Format, anything *can* adapt to EF, but some mounts are more popular than others (like Pentacon 6, Hassy 500/2000, pentax 67, Mamiya 645. Not as popular are Contax 645 and Rollei 600*, they have electronic stop-down like EF, so on adapters they're wide-open only. And RB/RZ 67 and Rollei SL66 don't have focussing helicoids in the lens, so infinity or macro-bellows only, or a Zoerk adapter is $1k.

Anyway, that's just me blabbing on, seeing as the OP is mainly talking about Samyangs and Zeiss.
The one main problem I have, with all of my adapters and all of my lenses....
They Wobble.
Sometimes badly.
Maybe that's because I buy cheap $5 chinese adapters, but mostly it's just manufacturing tolerances, or wear-and-tear on old lenses. Mostly it's not even the adapter's fault, the same adapter works fine on a different lens, which wobbles with a different adapter. This doesn't affect sometimes in real life, sometimes (like uberfast lenses), it can make the whole image blurry, or one side of it (in extreme wobbliness you get a bit of Schleimpflug happening).
The exception to this is EdMika's adapter on my FL55/1.2. But then, that's not a 'real' adapter like the rest are. No offence Ed, what I mean is that it's better, it's more a 'back mount replacement' than 'adapter'. It's solid as a brick, no wobbling whatsoever...

So, at the end of all that. If you're planning on jumping ship, or just want to keep options open (or even like me, you just want to buy the cheapest no matter what mount), then go with an adapter and F mount, as long as you know that it might not be perfect. But afaik, at least zeiss ZE lenses probably work better natively...


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## Aglet (Sep 23, 2012)

some adapters have the AF confirm chip in them, FWIW.

I sure wish someone could mill the mount off my EF 70-200 f/2.8 L II and put a proper F-mount on it.
What a joy that would be to use on my D800e!


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## Albi86 (Sep 23, 2012)

Thank you all for your replies.

My idea is buying a D600 and 3-4 high-quality M/F primes - most likely Zeiss, Voigtländer and Samyang.

In this perspective spending 170€ for a chipped adapter by Novoflex or something similar is not a big deal, and the advantages in IQ, and long term durability and flexibility are just huge in my opinion.

I only wish I could find some information about the Voigtländer 28/2.8 for Canon/Nikon.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 23, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Thank you all for your replies.
> 
> My idea is buying a D600 and 3-4 high-quality M/F primes - most likely Zeiss, Voigtländer and Samyang.
> 
> ...


Buy a adapter for each lens, removing and installing them to change a lens, as well as spending a hour reprogramming the chip for the attached lens is not fun.


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## SJTstudios (Sep 29, 2012)

Sorry for the misinterpretation befor. 
You could always get some canon fd L lenses, they are decent quality (unless heavily used), pretty cheap, nice mf, and they won't loose any resale value. All you have to do is buy an adapter, and then you don't have to worry about switching to Nikon if you want to use af. An adapter and 3 lenses will cost you about $1000. 
That way you can stay in the canon game with the good dslrs and good af lenses.

This is one of the cheapest ways to get good manual focus lenses, because remember, years ago when mf was the only way to focus, canon was still at the top with their mf l lenses.


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## Aglet (Sep 30, 2012)

SJTstudios said:


> Sorry for the misinterpretation befor.
> You could always get some canon fd L lenses, they are decent quality (unless heavily used), pretty cheap, nice mf, and they won't loose any resale value. All you have to do is buy an adapter, and then you don't have to worry about switching to Nikon if you want to use af. An adapter and 3 lenses will cost you about $1000.
> That way you can stay in the canon game with the good dslrs and good af lenses.
> 
> This is one of the cheapest ways to get good manual focus lenses, because remember, years ago when mf was the only way to focus, canon was still at the top with their mf l lenses.



Canon's old lenses need adapters to work on anything new
Nikon's old lenses need adapters to work on new Canon or some other bodies.
Nikon's old lenses still work on new Nikon bodies without adapters (with some AF issues on low end bodies)
Therefore, Nikon lenses are more versatile, and there's a pile of old used ones to be found out there, more than Canon's.


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## ontarian (Sep 30, 2012)

[/quote]



Canon's old lenses need adapters to work on anything new
Nikon's old lenses need adapters to work on new Canon or some other bodies.
Nikon's old lenses still work on new Nikon bodies without adapters (with some AF issues on low end bodies)
Therefore, Nikon lenses are more versatile, and there's a pile of old used ones to be found out there, more than Canon's.
[/quote]


True.

But.

Not all things are equal.

Some Nikon Lenses are better than similar Canon lenses of that time.

Other Canon Lenses are better than similar Nikon lenses of that time.

Also Nikon shooters like Nikon Lenses and Canon shooters like Canon Lenses.

So blanket statements are broad, comfortable and kind of cover all the bases but are just barely more right than wrong in any given specific case.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 30, 2012)

Canon's old lenses need adapters to work on anything new
Nikon's old lenses need adapters to work on new Canon or some other bodies.
Nikon's old lenses still work on new Nikon bodies without adapters (with some AF issues on low end bodies)
Therefore, Nikon lenses are more versatile, and there's a pile of old used ones to be found out there, more than Canon's.



True.

But.

Not all things are equal.

Some Nikon Lenses are better than similar Canon lenses of that time.

Other Canon Lenses are better than similar Nikon lenses of that time.

Also Nikon shooters like Nikon Lenses and Canon shooters like Canon Lenses.

So blanket statements are broad, comfortable and kind of cover all the bases but are just barely more right than wrong in any given specific case.

Absolutely! 

Do not try using a Nikon non-AI lens on a new Nikon Consumer body. Or one of the "G" lenses that were optimized for APS-C before Nikon actually had a FF digital camera.
General statements lead the unaware into actually believing the misinformation and even into damaging their equipment. 
You need to carry a large table around with you if you want to use old Nikon lenses on a new body, or at least have a good memory.
Those wanting to mount old Nikon Lenses need to read this first, or risk damaging their digital body!

http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html

http://www.aiconversions.com/compatibilitytable.htm


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