# Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 22, 2016)

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<p>That patent train continues for EF-M lens optical formulas, this time we see a 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO lens for APS-C sized sensors. This optical formula patent shows the lens for both EF-M and EF-S mounts. It’s definitely interesting to see diffractive optics development for consumer grade cameras.</p>
<p>Patent Publication No. 2016-57444 (Google Translated)</p>
<ul>
<li>Published 2016.4.21</li>
<li>Filing date 2014.9.9</li>
</ul>
<p>Example 1</p>
<ul>
<li>Zoom ratio 5.59</li>
<li>Focal length 51.77 135.00 289.53</li>
<li>F-number 4.65 5.05 5.85</li>
<li>Half angle of view (degrees) 14.78 5.78 2.70</li>
<li>Image height 13.66 13.66 13.66</li>
<li>The total lens length 126.05 169.37 184.15</li>
<li>BF 35.50 35.50 35.50</li>
</ul>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>Example 2</p>
<ul>
<li>Zoom ratio 5.90</li>
<li>Focal length 49.13 135.00 290.00</li>
<li>F-number 4.65 4.95 5.85</li>
<li>Half angle of view (degrees) 15.54 5.78 2.70</li>
<li>Image height 13.66 13.66 13.66</li>
<li>The total lens length 108.00 152.12 168.00</li>
<li>BF 15.69 15.69 15.69</li>
</ul>
<p>We have yet to see any full frame optical formulas for a full frame mirrorless camera body. We don’t find this surprising as we expect any such camera be compatible with EF lenses.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## RGF (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

On a APC body, that would be equivalent to 80-480. nice range. Now to learn about the optical quality.


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## Woody (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

Canon already has an optically sound EF-S 55-250 mm (equiv. 88-400 mm) f/4-5.6 IS STM lens which weighs a mere 375 g and priced affordably at US$299

Not sure what the DO lens brings to the table. Maybe slightly reduced weight? But it won't come cheap...


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



Woody said:


> Canon already has an optically sound EF-S 55-250 mm (equiv. 88-400 mm) f/4-5.6 IS STM lens which weighs a mere 375 g and priced affordably at US$299
> 
> Not sure what the DO lens brings to the table. Maybe slightly reduced weight? But it won't come cheap...



DO doesn't necessarily mean lighter, but does mean shorter. Despite being slightly wider and adding 50mm at the long end, the EF-S 50-300 DO would be ~1" shorter retracted and ~1.5" shorter fully extended, compared to the EF-S 55-250 STM.


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## TeT (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

Getting very excited about the M. Can 2016 be the year of the M?

This lens patent just adds to it...


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## Foxdude (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

I'm also very excited of upcoming M bodies and lenses. Hope these new lenses show up optically excellent.


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## Woody (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

I hope Canon will release an EF-S or EF-M 30 mm f/1.4 lens (like the Sigma DC 30 mm f/1.4). An updated 17-55 f/2.8 without IS will be great too.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



Woody said:


> An updated 17-55 f/2.8 *without IS* will be great too.



Why?


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## Foxdude (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



neuroanatomist said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > An updated 17-55 f/2.8 *without IS* will be great too.
> ...



Also wondering why..
EF-M 30mm F1.4 sounds very tempting, though...


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## AvTvM (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

not interested. price likely to be a multiple of EF-M 55-200 ... not worth it for me for a crop tele-zoom. 

I would be interested in an *ultracompact* EF-M 85/2.4 STM IS DO though ... if it is optically as good as 22/2.0 and similarly affordable [meaning < 500].


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## Woody (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



neuroanatomist said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > An updated 17-55 f/2.8 *without IS* will be great too.
> ...



Hoping for a lightweight fast zoom like the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 (430 g).


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## nads (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

Could be fun. At least its becoming very, very clear that there will be no FF mirrorless from Canon this year.

I think it is also clear that Canon is prioritizing size first and foremost.


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## Woody (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



nads said:


> Could be fun. At least its becoming very, very clear that there will be no FF mirrorless from Canon this year.
> 
> I think it is also clear that Canon is prioritizing size first and foremost.



Agreed.

Not sure why there are rumors that Canon is going to release mirrorless FF soon...


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



Woody said:


> Not sure why there are rumors that Canon is going to release mirrorless FF soon...



Because AvTvM wants one?


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## AvTvM (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



neuroanatomist said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure why there are rumors that Canon is going to release mirrorless FF soon...
> ...



exactly! But as I am the only person on earth to do so, Canon will not make one. Ever. Promised! ;D


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## nads (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



Woody said:


> nads said:
> 
> 
> > Could be fun. At least its becoming very, very clear that there will be no FF mirrorless from Canon this year.
> ...



The rumor post recently of 2 Mirrorless bodies this year, one possibly being FF didn't help. With the picture becoming clear that fast optics are going to be DSLR territory and small is going to be mirrorless territory, anybody thinking FF is on the way isn't understanding Canon's desire to sustain their very profitable DSLR and EOS ecosystem.


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## AvTvM (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



thetechhimself said:


> a FF Powershot ..
> ...
> Think RX1 territory.



cringe!!!
Fucking NO!!!

3500 bucks digicams with bolted on boring 35mm wide angle lens. HELL NO!!!


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

I believe the Chinese consider 2016 as a year of the monkey. But for Canon shooters it looks to be shaping up as the year of Canon throwing the monkeys off it's back:
- Headphone jack on mid-tier body - check
- Better low ISO DR- check
- DPAF on full frame - check
- Touchscreen on full frame - check

There are still plenty of things on the to-do list, but at least we are moving in the right direction.


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## AvTvM (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



StudentOfLight said:


> - DPAF on full frame - check



don't rate this too highly. So far, Canon DP-AF is not delivering the promised goods. Hybrid CD-AF + on-sensor PD-AF gets better [Live View/mirrorless] AF performance. DP-AF looks way overhyped to me.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



AvTvM said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > - DPAF on full frame - check
> ...



My segment where I test this says otherwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-vkwzq2E3M

The video tracking by the 80D is actually very, very good.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



Well, if you're going to base your opinion on actual _experience_ instead of personal bias, go right ahead.


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## Woody (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> My segment where I test this says otherwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-vkwzq2E3M
> 
> The video tracking by the 80D is actually very, very good.



I tested 80D DPAF tracking in a Japan store and it was VERY VERY impressive. 

I was so blown away that I decided to get the 80D.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



neuroanatomist said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



My bad  My time as a reviewer has taught me that there are a LOT of unsubstantiated opinions that float around camera communities but are repeated as fact. I understand, though, as few photographers get a chance to actually use a lot of the gear and are forced to rely on the "experiences" of others.

I get to handle most of the new gear that comes out and I still get things wrong sometimes.


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## nads (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



AvTvM said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > - DPAF on full frame - check
> ...



Where in the world of focusing without a mirror has Canon delivered? "The technology has not delivered" is far from equivalent to "The technology cannot deliver". 

When they want to play in the pack of performance leaders in Mirrorless, the technology certainly will allow it. The idea that a company with 4 bodies released compared to 17-23 bodies for most of the competition is trailing because the technology can't deliver on the goods isn't based in reality.

A decade of watching Canon one-up Nikon in just a couple of performance specifications while happily trailing in others should tell you where they plan to be. That was in a market where their releases mirrored the frequency of the competition. Now we're talking about a market where the release cycle is between 20-25% of the frequency of other players.


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## AvTvM (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> My segment where I test this says otherwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-vkwzq2E3M
> The video tracking by the 80D is actually very, very good.



Hi Dustin, video may be. But I don't care at all for video, i have never and will never capture a minute of moving images. Not my ballgame. All I am interested in is AF performance for stills photography. And from all tests I see, Sony A6000 and A6300 and A7 II series are ahead in AF performance - both one-shot and tracking moving subjects - compared to the latest and presumably greatest Canon DP-AF implementation (80D in liveView mode). 

Yes, I do believe that DP-AF *theoretically* is a very promising concept. In Canon cameras however, it has not delivered anywhere close to this potential. Whether Canon is not able or not willing - can be debated (me thinks not able). But who cares? All I do care about is: "does Canon have it, yes or no? If no, then i don't buy from Canon". As simple as that. Have not bought much from Canon over the last 3 years. Their problem. Not mine.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



AvTvM said:


> Have not bought much from Canon over the last 3 years. Their problem. Not mine.



: : :


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## AvTvM (Apr 24, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



thetechhimself said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Have not bought much from Canon over the last 3 years. Their problem. Not mine.
> ...



EOS M and full set of EF-M lenses. It's my city travel kit. And my mountaineering kit. And my skiing kit. And my family events (in daylight) kit. EOS M + 22/2.0 is my coat pocket always on camera. Did not upgrade to M2 / M3 because they are no worthwhile products to me. Always hoping for a "killer M4". beacuse I like the UI and i like those compact, cheap and optically decent EF-M lenses. 

5D III i and L lenses .. only for planned shootings. Dont drag it along with me any longer. Too big, too heavy, too conspicuos. Too many places where mirrorslpappers are forbidden.


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## Woody (Apr 25, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



AvTvM said:


> All I am interested in is AF performance for stills photography. And from all tests I see, Sony A6000 and A6300 and A7 II series are ahead in AF performance - both one-shot and tracking moving subjects - compared to the latest and presumably greatest Canon DP-AF implementation (80D in liveView mode).



I saw a similar claim on Youtube, but nothing to substantiate it.

Do you have other links?

On the other hand, I have read horror stories of poor in-factory QA of Sony/Zeiss lenses. I am not willing to go through this kind of pain.


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## AvTvM (Apr 25, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



Woody said:


> I saw a similar claim on Youtube, but nothing to substantiate it.
> Do you have other links?
> On the other hand, I have read horror stories of poor in-factory QA of Sony/Zeiss lenses. I am not willing to go through this kind of pain.



sorry, got no links to Canon DP-AF (80D) vs Hybrid CD-PD AF (Sony) on hand. need to dig 'em out. 

re. Sony lenses: it's the sole reason I have not switched to A7 II series or to A6000/63000. 
Latest horror story - use of GLUE to hold essential parts of Sony lenses together until it fails - to be seen here: (FACT, not fiction): https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/a-look-at-electromagnetic-focusing/
including rather expensive lenses like FE 24-70/4 and FE 55/1.8 .. Zeiss-badge does not help here ... ouch! :


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## Woody (Apr 25, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



AvTvM said:


> sorry, got no links to Canon DP-AF (80D) vs Hybrid CD-PD AF (Sony) on hand. need to dig 'em out.



I found something here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoNRXWFTFa4

From the 13:03 mark, a comparison between 80D live-view AF and 6300 AF was made. According to the reviewer, both cameras were EQUALLY impressive in terms of functionality, but given the ease of use of the 80D touchscreen, the advantage goes to the 80D. Of course, if single eye AF is desired, then only the A6300 has that capability.


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## neonlight (Apr 30, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

Will this be a green ring lens for APS-C?


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## AvTvM (May 1, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



Woody said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > sorry, got no links to Canon DP-AF (80D) vs Hybrid CD-PD AF (Sony) on hand. need to dig 'em out.
> ...



thanks! 
Sony is handicapped mainly due to lack of touchscreen. Totally irrational crippling of their product. 
Other than it shows, that Canon DP-AF does not deliver anywhere near to its "full hype potential" ... so far, Canon could not utilize the theoretical advantage to deliver products with better or massively better LiveView AF performance compared to other brands with "regular" hybrid CD + on-sensor-PD AF system.


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## neuroanatomist (May 1, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



AvTvM said:


> Other than it shows, that Canon DP-AF does not deliver anywhere near to its "full hype potential" ... so far, Canon could not utilize the theoretical advantage to deliver products with better or massively better LiveView AF performance compared to other brands with "regular" hybrid CD + on-sensor-PD AF system.



Oh, I see. First, 'everything you read' said Sony was better than DPAF, and you were going to 'dig out the links' to support that claim. Now, when someone else provides evidence to refute your claim, you agree with it, but Canon still fails in your mind because of 'hyped potential'. What it shows is your own bias. If Canon built a MILC custom-made just PERFECT for YOUR EVERY NEED, you still would find reasons to criticize it. Keep on slapping your mirror. :


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## AvTvM (May 1, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*



neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Other than it shows, that Canon DP-AF does not deliver anywhere near to its "full hype potential" ... so far, Canon could not utilize the theoretical advantage to deliver products with better or massively better LiveView AF performance compared to other brands with "regular" hybrid CD + on-sensor-PD AF system.
> ...



... then i would buy it. And it would not take much. Basically 5D IV capabilities (sans video stuff) with good EVF and 500+ battery charge ... in size, shape and weight like a Sony A7. Plus a native, fully functional Canon EF-X/EF adapter instead of some metabone-or-whatever-third-party-stuff. 

Re. DP-AF performance: nothing is refuted. According to that single linked video "evidence", AF performance of the latest Canon DP-AF implementation (80D) seems to be close to but not 100% of Sony A6300 (with regular hybrid AF). Canon just gets a nice mentioning, due to touchscreen. And yes, Sony was stupid to not put one in their cameras. But definitely nothing to sing the praises of "ever so innovative" Canon DP-AF. 

PS: in a Canon mirrorslpaper DP-AF is largely wasted anyways, as it it only useful in LiveView and mainly for video.


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## neuroanatomist (May 2, 2016)

*Re: Patent: 50-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO for EF-S & EF-M*

Slap slap slap.


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