# 1DX Mark II buffer?



## kaptainkatsu (May 11, 2016)

So I was really excited for the 170 image raw buffer. But my camera only shows 59 shots as the remaining shots with the included Cfast 64gb card. I also tried removing the CF card and still is the same.

Speaking of CF card, I have a Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB UDMA7 card and that only shows 59 shots as well. In the manual it says 59 shots for Standard and 73 for Highspeed/UDMA7.

Is anyone seeing low buffer counts?


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## Grant Atkinson (May 11, 2016)

kaptainkatsu said:


> So I was really excited for the 170 image raw buffer. But my camera only shows 59 shots as the remaining shots with the included Cfast 64gb card. I also tried removing the CF card and still is the same.
> 
> Speaking of CF card, I have a Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB UDMA7 card and that only shows 59 shots as well. In the manual it says 59 shots for Standard and 73 for Highspeed/UDMA7.
> 
> Is anyone seeing low buffer counts?


Hi Kaptainkatsu
The number on the back screen is going to differ from the actual shots that you get, it is just a rough estimation, as the only time every consecutive frame will be the same file size will be if you are shooting a static fixed target. I tested the 1DX Mark 2 in a continuous burst, at iso 800 - moderately bright scene, (which affects individual file sizes) and got 93 images before it slowed. I used a Sandisk UDMA 7 160mb/sec CF card.
I also switched to shooting RAW only, and turned off all lens correction processing, and all forms of noise reduction.. I also disabled Highlight Tone Priority and Auto Lighting Optimizer. Doing that should get you the maximum burst.


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## Mikehit (May 11, 2016)

You will only get the maximum if you turn off all the fancy processing stuff and shot raw only (if you shoot raw+jpeg it is more data for the processor to manage).


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## Deleted member 91053 (May 11, 2016)

Canon are conservative with their estimates for example my 7D2 tells me it will give 20 shots at 9fps. It actually gives 30+ with a fast SD card and 40 with a fast CF card. My 1Dx claims 31 but gives 53+ at 10fps.
Just press the button on your 1DX2 and see what happens - I suspect that it will comfortably exceed Canon's predictions!


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## kaptainkatsu (May 12, 2016)

I have all the processing stuff turned off and shooting only raw.


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## Mikehit (May 12, 2016)

Have you actually tried shooting? If the burst lasts 4 seconds with the CFast card before it slows down you know it isn't doing what it should. If it goes for 12 seconds you know everything is OK
I wonder if the camera cannot tell what card you have in there so it shows the minimum guaranteed - it knows what speed it can pile data into the buffer but does not know how fast the card will be able to clear it. So if you put in a standard card the count willdrop with every shutter actuation, if you shoot with CFast it will drop much more slowly because the card is clearing the buffer more quickly. 
Shooting at 14 shots a second are you going to watch that little counter or are you going to keep firing until it slows down?


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## Mikehit (May 12, 2016)

Just looked at the manual online and on page 159 it says "Even if you use a UDMA CF card or Cfast card, the maximum burst indicator remains the same" which suggests this is the case


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## kaptainkatsu (May 12, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> Just looked at the manual online and on page 159 it says "Even if you use a UDMA CF card or Cfast card, the maximum burst indicator remains the same" which suggests this is the case



Ah nice find. I skimmed through the manual and missed this


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## StudentOfLight (May 12, 2016)

Out of interest, what fps rates can the new camera shoot at besides the maximum of 14, and how does that affect buffer depth?


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## kaptainkatsu (May 12, 2016)

you can set the fps from 1 to 14. Not sure at what fps you would get unlimited raw buffer. I was playing around last night and the buffer pretty much clears if you let off for half a second


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## Besisika (May 12, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> Out of interest, what fps rates can the new camera shoot at besides the maximum of 14, and how does that affect buffer depth?


170 raw burst is not enough? Interesting ...
I shoot boxing and around 10 bursts is the max I have done, then breathe for half a second then another burst. Even on the original 1DX I have never filled up my buffer. I filled up my cards, yes, but not the buffer. 5D MK III is a totally another story.


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## Halfrack (May 12, 2016)

kaptainkatsu said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Just looked at the manual online and on page 159 it says "Even if you use a UDMA CF card or Cfast card, the maximum burst indicator remains the same" which suggests this is the case
> ...



Better put, the amount of shots that fit in the onboard buffer is 59. When Canon says 73 or 170 it means it can write files to card and utilize the buffer to take 73/170 shots at 14fps.

There's a bucket analogy, you pouring in water will fill the bucket quickly, but if you cut a hole in the bottom, it takes longer for the bucket to fill. The CFast cards mean a larger hole, while CF is a smaller hole. You can still fill the bucket, but the amount of water used will be different (number of shots).


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## StudentOfLight (May 12, 2016)

Besisika said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
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> > Out of interest, what fps rates can the new camera shoot at besides the maximum of 14, and how does that affect buffer depth?
> ...


Of course 170 is enough. For ice skating 4 seconds of continuous burst shooting would be sufficient for me.

I was mainly asking because measurebators have told me how the D5 gives 200 RAWs, but they forget that it is not shooting as fast as the 1DX-II. I would assume the 1Dx-II would get more than 170 RAWs if it were slowed down to a mere 12fps


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## Besisika (May 12, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> Besisika said:
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> > StudentOfLight said:
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Got it!
Never shot skating before, maybe just once - many many moons ago.


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## GoldMetal8 (May 17, 2016)

Noted the same concern. However, when you look at the back of the camera, and look at the file count, you can see that you can pull a burst of well over a 100 shots. So while the buffer in the seen in the camera's view finder shows 50, the camera easily pulls off a burst rate of 100 plus using the supplied cFast card. 

I called Cannon today and the guys at tech support were not aware of this (they just got their test unit). However, they noted the same concern. While although the indicated buffer shows 50, the camera will rip off well more than 100 in full 14 FPS. My camera is set to record only standard RAW. When I experimented and set it up to shot both RAW and JPEG L it looks to be able to rip off about 80, right in line with the manual. 

He indicated that they were going to training later this week (Wednesday) and would bring this point up, and contact me with an update.

By the way, coming from a D4, Canon Technical Support is absolutely fantastic! Night and day difference over Nikon...


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## GuyF (May 18, 2016)

From The Digital Picture:

With the Transcend card installed, the 1D X Mark II captured an incredible 14 frames per second until I got bored holding the shutter release down over 6 minutes later. The 14 fps converts to 840 fpm and, in 6:01.35, I had a VERY impressive 5,068 RAW images on the CFast card. With this card installed, the camera never filled its buffer.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=18212

Also has a link to audio file of 6 minutes worth of 14fps


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## tpatana (May 18, 2016)

GuyF said:


> Also has a link to audio file of 6 minutes worth of 14fps



Beautiful.


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## RGF (May 18, 2016)

kaptainkatsu said:


> So I was really excited for the 170 image raw buffer. But my camera only shows 59 shots as the remaining shots with the included Cfast 64gb card. I also tried removing the CF card and still is the same.
> 
> Speaking of CF card, I have a Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB UDMA7 card and that only shows 59 shots as well. In the manual it says 59 shots for Standard and 73 for Highspeed/UDMA7.
> 
> Is anyone seeing low buffer counts?



Don;t have a 1Dx II yet, but based upon my experience with the 1Dx I believe that the 170 buffer = internal buffer of 59 shots plus while this is happening the buffer will be written to the Cfast card so more shoots can be occur. In the end there will be 59 shoots in the buffer and 111 shots written to the card when the camera slows down.

At some lower FPS the buffer will either be infinite or much larger. I wish Canon would report the maximum burst rate at 10 FPS, 11 FPS, 12 FPS as well as at 14 FPS.


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## GuyF (May 19, 2016)

tpatana said:


> GuyF said:
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> > Also has a link to audio file of 6 minutes worth of 14fps
> ...



Umm, don't you mean crazy? Even with a shutter rated for 400,000 actuations, I wouldn't waste 5,000 doing this!

I guess there was smoke coming out of the mechanism!


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## IglooEater (May 19, 2016)

tpatana said:


> GuyF said:
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> > Also has a link to audio file of 6 minutes worth of 14fps
> ...



With cards this fast, buffer capacity begins to besomewhat of a moot point, no?


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## GuyF (May 20, 2016)

Whilst the 6mins at 14fps is impressive, the original text from the page I linked to didn't give the whole story. In the full review it states, "...the lens cap remained on (insuring a black file and the smallest file size) and a freshly-formatted fast memory card was loaded...".

Don't know what size an essentially "blank" image is but you'd have thought if The Digital Picture goes to the lengths it does to show image quality and noise etc., it would have checked out the buffer with real-world data, i.e. images of something rather than "nothing".

Oh well, guess you can't have everything....


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## tpatana (May 20, 2016)

GuyF said:


> Whilst the 6mins at 14fps is impressive, the original text from the page I linked to didn't give the whole story. In the full review it states, "...the lens cap remained on (insuring a black file and the smallest file size) and a freshly-formatted fast memory card was loaded...".
> 
> Don't know what size an essentially "blank" image is but you'd have thought if The Digital Picture goes to the lengths it does to show image quality and noise etc., it would have checked out the buffer with real-world data, i.e. images of something rather than "nothing".
> 
> Oh well, guess you can't have everything....



Right. I did bit more real-world test myself (Mk1). Shooting boring wall at my office with setting: 1/200 F5.0 ISO400, and press shutter button down for 30 seconds.

On Lexar 1066x, 1DX took 171 pictures, 5D3 took 137 and 7D(1) took 120.

On crappy Patriot 266x card, same cameras: 59, 31, 45


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## dcm (May 20, 2016)

RGF said:


> kaptainkatsu said:
> 
> 
> > So I was really excited for the 170 image raw buffer. But my camera only shows 59 shots as the remaining shots with the included Cfast 64gb card. I also tried removing the CF card and still is the same.
> ...



A reasonable guesstimate for shots written to the card would be S=111*14/F where S is the number of shots and F is the selected FPS assuming comparable bandwidth from the buffer to card at all rates. At 10 FPS this would be 155 shots on the card plus the 59 in the buffer or 21.4 seconds before a lag. YMMV


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## dcm (May 21, 2016)

dcm said:


> RGF said:
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> > kaptainkatsu said:
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I should have called that a reasonable lower limit guesstimate since it didn't account for any overlap/pipelining. 

My second CFast card arrived so I gathered some empirical data. Wasn't sure of the test shooting conditions for the spec so I set the camera up for minimal processing: high speed at 10fps (I'd already set this for my use), 40 STM in manual focus (it was already mounted with lens cap on ;-), white balance K 5500, eval metering, 1/2000, f2.8, ISO 100, ALO/... off, and CFast card only. I reformatted the card and reset the file counter between tests to simplify tallying the results.

The first test with RAW+L (forgot to turn off jpg) clicked off 728 frames (13 GB) before I though I heard a hesitation. Card showed 10fps the whole time with no dropped frames, so it might have gone longer if I held the shutter button down.

The second test with RAW only clicked off 1806 frames (31 GB) before I stopped - 3 minutes worth at 10fps. I was surprised that it took some effort to hold the shutter button down that long. 

YMMV. Of course, nobody actually shoots that way. You would likely turn on AI servo, linked metering, etc. which takes some processing power and might affect the results. Someone else can experiment with settings and other FPS.

This is not something that I'd expect to do much in practice, but its nice to know its possible. I've done something similar with the M3 a few times to capture a long sequence of images. In JPG only mode you can shoot 4+ FPS until the card is full on the M3.


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## PureClassA (May 23, 2016)

I had the DX2 all weekend for a shoot and had the same buffer counter of 50 something in the viewfinder. I was using a fast CF card, but NOT a CFast 2.0 and I was shooting mostly in the upper ISOs, so RAW file sizes are bigger. ISO 100, you should have 20-21MB per frame, whereas at 6400 I was getting 24MB+ shots. I'm sure that also accounted for some variance, although I was pretty happy with what I was getting. I didn't have too many slow downs but I was also shooting in very rough lighting and fast action tracking conditions.


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## RGF (May 28, 2016)

dcm said:


> dcm said:
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## StudentOfLight (Jun 8, 2016)

dcm said:


> dcm said:
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> > RGF said:
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Wow, you've gone way beyond what anyone could expect over the internet. Gosh, if it were my camera I would have called it a day at 400shots. I applaud you for your commitment to methodology.


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