# Updated list of unreleased Canon gear



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 16, 2018)

> Nokishita has released the latest list of unreleased Canon gear that we can expect to be announced in the first half of 2019. We’ve done a prediction of what we think is coming early next year based on these sorts of lists and some common sense.
> *DS 126751* (EOS 90D?)
> 
> Digital camera (single lens reflex or RF mounting machine)
> ...



Continue reading...


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## criscokkat (Nov 16, 2018)

I hope they are both rf mount. Time to go all in on mirrorless.


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## djack41 (Nov 16, 2018)

A Pro-model RF deserving of the new lenses. The EOS R is a consumer camera.


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## Ian_of_glos (Nov 16, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> I hope they are both rf mount. Time to go all in on mirrorless.


Why is that? What is wrong with Canon giving their customers a choice?


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## Aaron D (Nov 16, 2018)

See this finally confirms what I've been saying all along:

Canon is going to make some cameras. Someplace. Some with lenses, some with mirrors (or not) and many with wifi bluetooth.

I feel so vindicated.


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## tmc784 (Nov 16, 2018)

How many MP ? FF or APSC for 90D ?


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## neurorx (Nov 16, 2018)

If Canon keeps adding R lenses, what happens to the L line? The new R lenses aren’t designated as such.


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## padam (Nov 16, 2018)

They are, three out of the four RF lenses have the L designation.


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## preppyak (Nov 16, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> I hope they are both rf mount. Time to go all in on mirrorless.


Well, they'll need to release about 15 lenses at 1/2 the price of their current RF lenses to make a mirrorless 90D viable in any way. Right now, it'd die a quick death due to a lack of native lenses, all priced higher than the camera.

I think a lot of people forget that the 90D isnt usually going to someone with $10k in L lenses sitting around. Not when Canon has so many quality lenses in the $200-500 range.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 16, 2018)

preppyak said:


> I think a lot of people forget that the 90D isnt usually going to someone with $10k in L lenses sitting around. Not when Canon has so many quality lenses in the $200-500 range.



And, every EF-s and EF works with the R via the adapter. I bought the R body but use my EF lenses. Its ideal for a crop body upgrade going to FF because their EF-s lenses will work and they can add EF or RF lenses as they please.


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## mirage (Nov 16, 2018)

Aaron D said:


> See this finally confirms what I've been saying all along:
> Canon is going to make some cameras. Someplace. Some with lenses, some with mirrors (or not) and many with wifi bluetooth.
> I feel so vindicated.




exactly. by comparison, the Delphi Oracle was very straightforward and clear cut. 

I think we are looking at G7X III and M5 II, M6 II. Those come first.

More R mount stuff only later on -
1. "entry level R6" [about April/may 2019],
2. then "mirrorfree 5Ds II" [Fall 2019] 
3. then mirrorfree 1DX-III - Feb 2020, soon enough for 2020 Tokyo Olympics


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## Talys (Nov 16, 2018)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Why is that? What is wrong with Canon giving their customers a choice?



For some inexplicable reason, some people are just totally hostile to the idea of a mirror and optical viewfinder, and wish that all camera manufacturers would stop making DSLRs so that people would stop buying DSLRs.

You don't really see DSLR users stamping their feet and screaming for camera manufacturers to stop making mirrorless products, though. 

*Eyeroll*


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## Talys (Nov 16, 2018)

There is a strong possibility that I buy a 90D. The 80D is still my most-used camera.


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## VORON (Nov 16, 2018)

I hope that entry level EOS R will be around 1500$ and have IBIS.


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## jolyonralph (Nov 16, 2018)

> I hope that entry level EOS R will be around 1500$ 

Quite possible

> and have IBIS.

Not a chance


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## jolyonralph (Nov 16, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> And, every EF-s and EF works with the R via the adapter. I bought the R body but use my EF lenses. Its ideal for a crop body upgrade going to FF because their EF-s lenses will work and they can add EF or RF lenses as they please.



More than that, the EF-S crop lenses are ideal for 4K video on the R. I was going to sell my EF-S 10-18 but now I've got the R I'm absolutely keeping it.


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## preppyak (Nov 16, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> And, every EF-s and EF works with the R via the adapter. I bought the R body but use my EF lenses. Its ideal for a crop body upgrade going to FF because their EF-s lenses will work and they can add EF or RF lenses as they please.


So is Canon eating the cost of that $100 adaptor? Remember, most of the EF-S lenses in the system are cheap. You can kit out with an 18-55mm, 55-250mm, 24mm, and 50mm for about the cost of the cheapest RF lens.

I think it makes a lot of sense for the 90D to be very good DSLR; so that it survives for ~3 years as a camera and the line ends and becomes mirrorless. But doing it right now will be a disaster. As someone who bought into the Sony a7 when it had no native lenses, the process was infuriating and caused me to change back pretty quickly.


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## BillB (Nov 16, 2018)

preppyak said:


> So is Canon eating the cost of that $100 adaptor? Remember, most of the EF-S lenses in the system are cheap. You can kit out with an 18-55mm, 55-250mm, 24mm, and 50mm for about the cost of the cheapest RF lens.
> 
> I think it makes a lot of sense for the 90D to be very good DSLR; so that it survives for ~3 years as a camera and the line ends and becomes mirrorless. But doing it right now will be a disaster. As someone who bought into the Sony a7 when it had no native lenses, the process was infuriating and caused me to change back pretty quickly.


Well, if you don't want to pay for an $100 adapter that leaves you with having to pay RF prices and waiting for Canon to fill out the RF line.


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## jvillain (Nov 17, 2018)

Talys said:


> There is a strong possibility that I buy a 90D. The 80D is still my most-used camera.



I'm expecting 26MP, Digic7 slight improvement in video and a new badge. Meaning I will be shooting my 80D till it dies. But I am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised.


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## Talys (Nov 17, 2018)

jvillain said:


> I'm expecting 26MP, Digic7 slight improvement in video and a new badge. Meaning I will be shooting my 80D till it dies. But I am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised.


That sounds about right. Even if they just took the 80D and added compressed RAW CR3's, I'd probably buy it -- I've almost purchased a second 80D a few times -- the only reason I didn't last year was that I purchased a 6D2.


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## applecider (Nov 17, 2018)

So does gps get tested by these agencies, or are these bodies lacking it?

I know one can do without but I like having it, so if nothing else I know where I am.


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## Mr Majestyk (Nov 17, 2018)

Gosh how much more entry level can you get than the EOS R? What can we expect, 1fps with tracking, 2x crop mode for 4K, lower res EVF and LCD, no eye-AF!


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## mirage (Nov 17, 2018)

Talys said:


> For some inexplicable reason, some people are just totally hostile to the idea of a mirror and optical viewfinder, and wish that all camera manufacturers would stop making DSLRs so that people would stop buying DSLRs.
> 
> You don't really see DSLR users stamping their feet and screaming for camera manufacturers to stop making mirrorless products, though.
> 
> *Eyeroll*



quite the opposite. people wanting cameras without antiquated slapping mirrors inside were actively denied that choice for many years by the 2 inexpicably super-conservative companies that control 80% of the (stills) imaging market. 

done rightt, cameras free of moving mechanical parts such as mirror/submirrorcassembly and mechanical shutters have clear and significant advantages. in all dimensions: IQ (eg no vibration-induced blur), operation and performance (fps, AF, silent, ...) and user interface (wysiwig EVF, less bulk). 

mirrorfree cameras are the next evolutionary step for photographic equipment to overcome limitations imposed by its 18/19/20th century origins: digital imaging freed us of film/chemical complexities and the need to buy expensive materials from oligopolistic companies like Kodak. now - finally! - we are freed from limitations caused by moving mechanical parts. next stage will be computational imaging to free us from limitations of large, polished glass optics (lenses). 

tiny solid state devices 
are used to capture and create the vast majority of all images today. of course we can, should and will get such devices also with larger might- sensitive surface for higher technical image quality. 

only Canon and Nikon have tried as best as they can to hinder, cripple and stifle that develoment by only offering marginally improved versions of their eversame mirrorslappers to be bought every other year by customers they considered locked into their "exo-system" with their proprietary lens mounts. they still try to repeat that business model today. but it does not work very well any longer. that's really why "the market is shrinking". lugging around big, expensive, conspicuous, clunky mirrorslappers has become "a nerdy aging male niche pastime".


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## unfocused (Nov 17, 2018)

mirage said:


> quite the opposite. people wanting cameras without antiquated slapping mirrors inside were actively denied that choice for many years by the 2 inexpicably super-conservative companies that control 80% of the (stills) imaging market.
> 
> done rightt, cameras free of moving mechanical parts such as mirror/submirrorcassembly and mechanical shutters have clear and significant advantages. in all dimensions: IQ (eg no vibration-induced blur), operation and performance (fps, AF, silent, ...) and user interface (wysiwig EVF, less bulk).
> 
> ...


I did not know there was some grand conspiracy theory by Nikon and Canon to deny people products that they want to buy. Silly me, I just assumed that manufacturers were researching the market and waiting until they saw sufficient evidence of profitability before jumping in. But then again, I didn't know the market was shrinking because of a lack of mirrorless cameras. I always thought the market was shrinking because most consumers find that having a camera in their cell phone is more convenient and sufficient for their needs. I guess now that mirrorless cameras have been launched by Canon and Nikon we will see a reversal of the trends of the past few years and dedicated cameras will soon replace cell phones.


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## deleteme (Nov 17, 2018)

neurorx said:


> If Canon keeps adding R lenses, what happens to the L line? The new R lenses aren’t designated as such.



The 50 1.2 R is a premium lens so I suspect the R line will be premium and a "RC" line will come out as the Cheap line.
Or maybe they will have only "R" lenses but I doubt the marketers can resist segmenting the market.
As for EF lenses, remember the FD line.


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## delta0 (Nov 17, 2018)

jvillain said:


> I'm expecting 26MP, Digic7 slight improvement in video and a new badge. Meaning I will be shooting my 80D till it dies. But I am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised.


K437 // Canon EOS 90D (80D replacement)


Single lens reflex camera
32mp
Wi-Fi · Bluetooth
Battery level indication is displayed in 6 increments
2019 announcement
Aps-c and Digic 8 I expect so.


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## danfaz (Nov 17, 2018)

Normalnorm said:


> The 50 1.2 R is a premium lens so I suspect the R line will be premium and a "RC" line will come out as the Cheap line.
> Or maybe they will have only "R" lenses but I doubt the marketers can resist segmenting the market.
> As for EF lenses, remember the FD line.





neurorx said:


> If Canon keeps adding R lenses, what happens to the L line? The new R lenses aren’t designated as such.



Guys, no. The RF mount lenses, just like EF mount lenses, have non-L and L designations:
RF 24-105mm F4 *L* IS USM
RF 28-70mm F2 *L *USM
RF 50mm F1.2 *L* USM
RF 35mm F1.8 Macro IS STM


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## neonlight (Nov 17, 2018)

> As for EF lenses, remember the FD line.



Not quite so bad as at least there are adapters which work with all EF-s and EF lenses.
But in the long term, I'm sure EF is dead. Just a matter of when.


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## ritholtz (Nov 17, 2018)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Gosh how much more entry level can you get than the EOS R? What can we expect, 1fps with tracking, 2x crop mode for 4K, lower res EVF and LCD, no eye-AF!


Like M50 vs M5. They can make cheaper yet a better camera in some specs.


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## justaCanonuser (Nov 17, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> I hope they are both rf mount. Time to go all in on mirrorless.


Not me. ML is nice for many applications, but for wildlife I will use DSLRs as long as there are still good ones available. I do not want to carry loads of batteries with me because every look through an EVF drains the battery.


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## SaP34US (Nov 17, 2018)

They will probably use the Dogic 8 processor in the new version of the 80 D ie the 90D.


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## tron (Nov 17, 2018)

I hope there are all DSLRs. Time for less BS...


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Nov 18, 2018)

Talys said:


> For some inexplicable reason, some people are just totally hostile to the idea of a mirror and optical viewfinder, and wish that all camera manufacturers would stop making DSLRs so that people would stop buying DSLRs.



People watch ads and trust marketers. Mirrorless and small matrices are beneficial to manufacturers, they are cheaper to manufacture.



justaCanonuser said:


> Not me. ML is nice for many applications, but for wildlife I will use DSLRs as long as there are still good ones available. I do not want to carry loads of batteries with me because every look through an EVF drains the battery.



I fully support. Very accurate expression!


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## The Fat Fish (Nov 18, 2018)

The mention of an entry level full frame RF worries me. The EOS R is entry level, it’s just it’s price says otherwise. They need to bring the EOS R down to $1600 and release one with full frame 4K, IBIS and dual card slots for $2350.


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## BillB (Nov 18, 2018)

The Fat Fish said:


> The mention of an entry level full frame RF worries me. The EOS R is entry level, it’s just it’s price says otherwise. They need to bring the EOS R down to $1600 and release one with full frame 4K, IBIS and dual card slots for $2350.


And why do they need to do that? Because that's what you want and that's what you are willing to pay? Why do you care whether the R is selling for $1600 if you aren't going to buy one?


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## smoothoperator (Nov 18, 2018)

BillB said:


> And why do they need to do that? Because that's what you want and that's what you are willing to pay? Why do you care whether the R is selling for $1600 if you aren't going to buy one?



They need to do that because it would be fair. Like is said, the current EOS R is already entry level, when you look at the specifications. The Sony a7 III is cheaper and has much better specifications, even IBIS.


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## The Fat Fish (Nov 18, 2018)

BillB said:


> And why do they need to do that? Because that's what you want and that's what you are willing to pay? Why do you care whether the R is selling for $1600 if you aren't going to buy one?


I would buy one at $1600. At the moment the EOS R is the most expensive in it's class (vs A7III & Z6) with the least impressive specs.


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## mirage (Nov 18, 2018)

Very simple. Because at 1600 they would sell a whole lot more EOS R cameras. Prices will come down. All it takes is a bit more market contraction and balance sheet suffering. Until they see that "premium priced sh*t" is an extremely limited market niche only and will not sustain or save them. Market can bear 1 Leica. It will not carry 2. And certainly not consumer goods corporations of Canon or Nikon size. They need to offer "consumer priced" wares.


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## Talys (Nov 18, 2018)

mirage said:


> quite the opposite. people wanting cameras without antiquated slapping mirrors inside were actively denied that choice for many years by the 2 inexpicably super-conservative companies that control 80% of the (stills) imaging market.
> 
> done rightt, cameras free of moving mechanical parts such as mirror/submirrorcassembly and mechanical shutters have clear and significant advantages. in all dimensions: IQ (eg no vibration-induced blur), operation and performance (fps, AF, silent, ...) and user interface (wysiwig EVF, less bulk).
> 
> ...


I disagree. People who have wanted mirrorless cameras haven't been denied anything.

First, mirrorless cameras even up to A7R2 were pretty horrible. Those viewfinders, for my purposes, were just not usable, and there were too many other sacrifices that had to be made just to... well I'm not sure what.

And that's what it all comes down to. At the end of the day, I don't really care about whether my camera has a mirror or not. I want a photograph. Which tool is better to give me that photograph? The novelty of a EVF or all the other nifty gizmos wear out pretty quickly -- in the context of hundreds of photos of day -- and what I really want is something in my hands that gives me more pictures I'm happy with.

5, 10, or 25 years from now, will my camera have a mirror? I really don't care. Whatever solution is better overall as a system is the one that I'll choose. I'm not attached to a mirror, but I do like fast autofocus under conditions where less light hits the sensor; I do like an AF system where an illuminator will let me focus at good distances without consideration to ambient light; I do like a camera system that has a battery that will last through a day. And for the time being, even with the great EVFs today, I do prefer the actual optical image through the lens.

Certainly, 5 or 10 years ago, mirrorless cameras were not a great option for most types of photography; hence my comment that nothing has been denied from you. Technology in something you like just hadn't gotten there yet.

I am happy for you and other mirrorless shooters that you feel that you have more choice today. I think that's great that the choice is there fore you. I was simply commenting that there are far more mirrorless shooters that say "Death to mirrors!" than DSLR shooters who say, "death to mirrorless!".

Right now, for me, mirrorless is mostly a novelty with relatively few real benefits. But they are a fun novelty, and I've spent money on lots of stuff that I ultimately don't use much, so I will buy more mirrorless cameras. Until they "get there", however, I'll probably still reach for my DSLR for a lot of stuff.

I don't resist change -- I just don't embrace it without immediate, tangible benefits to me, and I'm not willing to buy several iterations of beta products to support an idea, hoping it will get to where I want it to be.


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## Talys (Nov 18, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> People watch ads and trust marketers. Mirrorless and small matrices are beneficial to manufacturers, they are cheaper to manufacture.



Indeed, but personally, I don't care about what is beneficial to manufacturers, unless it also becomes beneficial to me 

When the camera system is cheaper and better for me, I'll get really excited. When it's an opportunity for camera manufacturers to make more stuff and sell it at a higher price... it's a little less exciting for me


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## The Fat Fish (Nov 18, 2018)

The pricing of the EOS R is worrying. They have priced a $1600 camera at $2350 forcing any lower end models to also be noncompetitive.We have seen this before where the 5DIV was priced over $3000 forcing the 6DII to be priced at launch at $2000 and then rapidly reduced just a month later.

The $3000+ mark should be for high res (40+ MP), high dynamic range (14+ stops) camera with full frame 4K, dual card slots and IBIS. For example the A7RIII, D850 (I know, no IBIS) and Z7 (I know, no dual cards).

The $2000 mark should be for mid range cameras like the A7III and Z6.

Entry level cameras like the EOS R should be around $1600.


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## justaCanonuser (Nov 18, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> People watch ads and trust marketers. Mirrorless and small matrices are beneficial to manufacturers, they are cheaper to manufacture.
> 
> 
> 
> I fully support. Very accurate expression!



Thank you very much. Good to know that there still are SLR principle supporters out there. As long as a decent number of photographers will buy them, I hope that those complex cameras still will be built.


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## scyrene (Nov 18, 2018)

neonlight said:


> Not quite so bad as at least there are adapters which work with all EF-s and EF lenses.
> But in the long term, I'm sure EF is dead. Just a matter of when.



In the long term, so are we all.


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Nov 18, 2018)

Now I have 5 cameras: 5D M3, EOS M3, M6, M50 and G7X M2. I need to choose only 2 cameras, and the rest is to sell.

My choice: 5DM3 and EOS M6! Mirror for a photo, EOS M6 - for vlog!

EOS M50 for a novice photographer is the best choice. 200D, 2000D, 4000D can not argue with the EOS M50 for photos. The EOS M50 is a good mirrorless, but I don’t want to buy 5-7 batteries to alternate them every 30 minutes. 

Why does Canon do this? A mystery to me!


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## dak723 (Nov 19, 2018)

Talys said:


> I disagree. People who have wanted mirrorless cameras haven't been denied anything.
> 
> First, mirrorless cameras even up to A7R2 were pretty horrible. Those viewfinders, for my purposes, were just not usable, and there were too many other sacrifices that had to be made just to... well I'm not sure what.
> 
> ...




All smart, reasonable responces. Any reasoning photographer understands that there are benefits and drawbacks to both systems. A birder or wildlife photographer - and perhaps many sports photographers - will prefer the OVF and especially the battery life of the DSLR - perhaps for many years to come - if not always. For others, the benefits of mirrorless will make it their preferred choice. Personally, I have come to like the WYSIWYG exposure of the EVF and both my cameras are now mirrorless. If I did bird and wildlife photography, then I would certainly choose a DSLR. 

As you say, photographers will choose what works best for them. It's the techno-geeks and those who just want to show off the latest "gadget" that are making all the proclamations about the greatness of mirrorless, in my opinion.


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## tron (Nov 19, 2018)

dak723 said:


> All smart, reasonable responces. Any reasoning photographer understands that there are benefits and drawbacks to both systems. A birder or wildlife photographer - and perhaps many sports photographers - will prefer the OVF and especially the battery life of the DSLR - perhaps for many years to come - if not always. For others, the benefits of mirrorless will make it their preferred choice. Personally, I have come to like the WYSIWYG exposure of the EVF and both my cameras are now mirrorless. If I did bird and wildlife photography, then I would certainly choose a DSLR.
> 
> As you say, photographers will choose what works best for them. It's the techno-geeks and those who just want to show off the latest "gadget" that are making all the proclamations about the greatness of mirrorless, in my opinion.


Very well said...


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## tron (Nov 19, 2018)

Talys said:


> For some inexplicable reason, some people are just totally hostile to the idea of a mirror and optical viewfinder, and wish that all camera manufacturers would stop making DSLRs so that people would stop buying DSLRs.
> 
> You don't really see DSLR users stamping their feet and screaming for camera manufacturers to stop making mirrorless products, though.
> 
> *Eyeroll*


You are spot on. I think of them as immature internet surfers some of which are photographers too. It is the reason I sometimes avoid to comment on threads so as to avoid wasting time and getting angry. Patience 2019 and 2020 will come with many new bodies. Let's just enjoy the ones we have


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## Macoose (Nov 19, 2018)

Tron, Dak723 & Talys,

I agree with the sentiments.


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## SaP34US (Nov 19, 2018)

jvillain said:


> I'm expecting 26MP, Digic7 slight improvement in video and a new badge. Meaning I will be shooting my 80D till it dies. But I am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised.


Why do you think they will use them Digic 7 and not Digic 8 processor for the camera?


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## tron (Nov 19, 2018)

SaP34US said:


> Why do you think they will use them Digic 7 and not Digic 8 processor for the camera?


I believe it will have Digic 8 to include latest improvements as well as increased rate which I believe it will have...


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## Avenger 2.0 (Nov 19, 2018)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Gosh how much more entry level can you get than the EOS R? What can we expect, 1fps with tracking, 2x crop mode for 4K, lower res EVF and LCD, no eye-AF!



How about no EVF? Is probably the biggest cost reduction they could do as lower specs alone is not enough.


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## koenkooi (Nov 19, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> [..]The EOS M50 is a good mirrorless, but I don’t want to buy 5-7 batteries to alternate them every 30 minutes.
> 
> Why does Canon do this? A mystery to me!



For small cameras I have the M1, M10 (came free with the 15-45mm lens) and 100D. Those all use the same battery, so having 5-7 LP-E12 is very useful in that situation. The aftermarket versions I have perform the same as the Canon version.
I'd really like to replace the M1 with the rumoured-to-be-released-soon M6II, but that will probably take an LP-E17


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## justaCanonuser (Nov 19, 2018)

In fact, I don't like this ideologically - or even pseudo-religiously - boosted furor with which some people fight for ML against SRL type cameras. For me, a camera is simply a good or not so good tool for my needs, and I am interested in images as results, in the technology only so far that it works smoothly for me. The funny thing about today's ML cameras is that they look so conservative. For me, that's just alright, because it shows that the camera-user interfaces are quite mature at least for current technology. But I always have to smile a bit if ML fans rant on how conservative DLSRs are (they are, of course), and then they praise their close-to-classic SLR supersized Sonys.

I can imagine that in some decades in the future, when people will have tiny camera sensor chips implanted in their eyes that are controlled by their brains, those people will have some fun reading those old camera technology discussions of today


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Nov 19, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> I can imagine that in some decades in the future, when people will have tiny camera sensor chips implanted in their eyes that are controlled by their brains, those people will have some fun reading those old camera technology discussions of today



Oh no!


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## justaCanonuser (Nov 19, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> Oh no!



Yeah, technology will turn this planet in a more and more scary place. Greetings from Mr. Zuckerbeep.


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## Adelino (Nov 19, 2018)

The Fat Fish said:


> I would buy one at $1600. At the moment the EOS R is the most expensive in it's class (vs A7III & Z6) with the least impressive specs.


By the time it's 1600 you will be complaining that the EOS R Pro is too expensive at 3400 and it should be 2400.


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## Rocky (Nov 19, 2018)

Mirrorless and DSLR will co-exist for a long time, just like Leica and Exakta has been co-exist for over half of a century. There is no way in sight that the


koenkooi said:


> For small cameras I have the M1, M10 (came free with the 15-45mm lens) and 100D. Those all use the same battery, so having 5-7 LP-E12 is very useful in that situation. The aftermarket versions I have perform the same as the Canon version.
> I'd really like to replace the M1 with the rumoured-to-be-released-soon M6II, but that will probably take an LP-E17


I have both M1 and M2. The biggest drawback is that I cannot use them under the sunlight. I got the M50 4 months ago. Now I am a happy camper. The EVF is a necessity under the sun. unless small size is a must, EVF should be considered.


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## koenkooi (Nov 20, 2018)

Rocky said:


> [..]
> I have both M1 and M2. The biggest drawback is that I cannot use them under the sunlight. I got the M50 4 months ago. Now I am a happy camper. The EVF is a necessity under the sun. unless small size is a must, EVF should be considered.



I think each person has their own threshold for when a screen becomes unusable. After setting the LCD brightness to full all the time I personally haven't had a situation where the M was unusable in direct sunlight. With EF-M lenses I can almost always use my left hand to shade the screen. Having said that, I find the M10 screen horrifying to use since Canon turned sharpness and saturation up to 11, not matter the amount of sunlight 

For me the M needs to be tiny, so I really don't want an EVF, the M50 is too close to the size of the 100D to be worth buying. About 70-80% of the pictures I take with the M are with the MP-E65 of insects and spider, I'm not flexible enough to see through the EVF/OVF when trying to reach most of their hiding spots!


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Nov 20, 2018)

koenkooi said:


> For me the M needs to be tiny, so I really don't want an EVF, the M50 is too close to the size of the 100D to be worth buying.



The M50 works well in a series of shots and with a telephoto lens.
This is the advantage of the M50 over the M6, etc.


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## koenkooi (Nov 20, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> The M50 works well in a series of shots and with a telephoto lens.
> This is the advantage of the M50 over the M6, etc.



No doubt about that, but I have a 7D for telephoto and bursts


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Nov 20, 2018)

koenkooi said:


> No doubt about that, but I have a 7D for telephoto and bursts



I also abandoned the M50 in favor of the M6.


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## Rocky (Nov 20, 2018)

koenkooi said:


> For me the M needs to be tiny, so I really don't want an EVF, the M50 is too close to the size of the 100D to be worth buying. About 70-80% of the pictures I take with the M are with the MP-E65 of insects and spider, I'm not flexible enough to see through the EVF/OVF when trying to reach most of their hiding spots!


The M50 has a back screen that you can flip it anyway you want. you can use it as a waist-level viewfinder. just like a Rolleiflex in the old days.


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## koenkooi (Nov 20, 2018)

Rocky said:


> The M50 has a back screen that you can flip it anyway you want. you can use it as a waist-level viewfinder. just like a Rolleiflex in the old days.



I know, and that makes the EVF even more irrelevant for me  Can't wait for the M6II !


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## The Fat Fish (Nov 20, 2018)

Adelino said:


> By the time it's 1600 you will be complaining that the EOS R Pro is too expensive at 3400 and it should be 2400.


Depends on the features? At $3400 it should at least match other $3400 cameras. That would include a 40+ MP BSI sensor with 14+ stops of DR, IBIS, Full Frame K, and dual cards slots.


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Nov 20, 2018)

koenkooi said:


> I know, and that makes the EVF even more irrelevant for me  Can't wait for the M6II !



The M50 has the ability to touch and drag an autofocus point with your finger while watching EWF. The focal points across the entire field of the frame are fantastic for the photographer. Does your 7D have so many focus points?


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## masterpix (Nov 30, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> I hope they are both rf mount. Time to go all in on mirrorless.



There are two main differences between DSLR and Mirror-less cameras: 1) one have a mirror and the other not, and 2) because of the mirror the rear of the lens distance from the sensor is shorter in mirror-less than DSLR. There are some other features like in DSLR you see (via a penta or mirror prism) the actual view of the lens, while in mirror-less you see it on electric screen. DSLR are still bit "faster" that the non mirror version and DSLR are more mechanical, hence a bit bigger and heavier. Beside those technical issues, the sensors are the same, the processors are the same and most of all, the photographer that holds the camera is the same. So why should a company "neglect" a large community of customers for "the new thing?" Actually, once Canon will have "enough" RF lenses, they will "sit back" so to speak, and evaluate where the market is heading. Mirror-less cameras were there from the first day point and shoot became digital, even smartphones did not change the fact people still buy DSLR ( I can't even compare smartphones with all their megapixels cameras, 4? 6? 10 of them packed on one phone now?) to my 6MP digital rebel pictures.


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## masterpix (Nov 30, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> How many MP ? FF or APSC for 90D ?


The 90D won't be FF, it is APSC (2/3) sensor at it is the successor of the 80D, same for the 7DMark3. about MP, it would be about 24-30 range.. but to be honest, the race for high MP is ridiculous, beside professionals that need huge MP for posters and such, most people just reduce their pictures to something that they can post on the internet, HD screen?


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## docsmith (Nov 30, 2018)

masterpix said:


> The 90D won't be FF, it is APSC (2/3) sensor at it is the successor of the 80D, same for the 7DMark3. about MP, it would be about 24-30 range.. but to be honest, the race for high MP is ridiculous, beside professionals that need huge MP for posters and such, most people just reduce their pictures to something that they can post on the internet, HD screen?


Quickly....APS-C and "2/3rds" are different sensor sizes. 

But, agreed with overall point, I would expect the replacements to the 7DII, 80D, M5/6, Rebels to continue to be APS-C sized sensors.

As for the MP race. I hope that Canon continues to provide the market with cameras in the 20-30 MP range. It would be a shame if that was no longer an option as I agree, I think that is a great MP count for many applications.

But, I like options and am glad to see high MP sensors out there as an option. This forum has several examples of people using the 5Ds(R), but one that I find interesting is a friend (seriously, not me) that has the 1DxII, 5DIV and 5DsR. He is primarily a birder and feels each excels in different instances. 

Options are good.


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## tron (Feb 20, 2019)

docsmith said:


> Quickly....APS-C and "2/3rds" are different sensor sizes.
> 
> But, agreed with overall point, I would expect the replacements to the 7DII, 80D, M5/6, Rebels to continue to be APS-C sized sensors.
> 
> ...


They do! I have 5DIV and 5DsR (and a 7DII I do not use much now). The 5DsR is the very good for distant birds and at the same time makes targeting BIF easier due to being FF. I have not used the 5DIV for birding a lot but it is a fantastic landscape camera (with a big DR) and a superb low light one (Milky way, night shots, internal spaces like churches and museums). I would rather see them updated to the next generation versions rather than seeing mirrorless ones.


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