# Canon officially announces the EOS R5 and EOS R6 along with 4 new lenses and two teleconverters



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 9, 2020)

> *MELVILLE, N.Y., July 9, 2020 –* With anticipation at a fever pitch, Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, is excited to introduce the company’s next generation of full-frame mirrorless cameras – the EOS R5 and EOS R6. These groundbreaking cameras are the result of many years of collecting and listening to feedback from Canon users and are sure to meet the needs and demands of a variety of creators. The EOS R5 is a camera designed for professional applications featuring a new 45-megapixel full-frame CMOS sensor and uncropped 8K video recording up to 29.97 fps. The EOS R6 is geared towards advanced amateurs featuring a 20.1-megapixel full-frame CMOS sensor and 4K video recording up to 59.94 fps. The addition of the EOS R5 and the EOS R6 cameras within the EOS R series lineup further...



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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

100-500 with competent f/5.6 at 400mm through to f/7.1 at 500mm according to the spec sheets on my usual shops.


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## Viggo (Jul 9, 2020)

So 8 stops with IBIS alone?


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

Insane. The 4K oversampled using 100% of all color channels – a huge STFU to the, "Who needs 8K?" crowd.


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## padam (Jul 9, 2020)

Full menu system (R5 beta firmware, R6 production firmware)


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## Andy Westwood (Jul 9, 2020)

Canon is back to being “THE NEW GAME CHANGER” eat your heart out Sony


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

Viggo said:


> So 8 stops with IBIS alone?



Shooting at 2-4 seconds handheld! As if M43 wasn't already dead enough.


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## sobrien (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> 100-500 with competent f/5.6 at 400mm through to f/7.1 at 500mm according to the spec sheets on my usual shops.



Confirmed! Woop.

Edit: Helps with the nostalgia tinged sadness I feel about selling my 100-400 ii yesterday.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

Clean ISO up to 12K. Canon: serving up crow for breakfast today.


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## Timedog (Jul 9, 2020)

f/5.6 at 400! Suddenly that lens makes sense!


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## Maximilian (Jul 9, 2020)

Is Canon still *******?


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## Eclipsed (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> 100-500 with competent f/5.6 at 400mm through to f/7.1 at 500mm according to the spec sheets on my usual shops.



I called it way back. No way they add 400-500 and take away aperture at 400 from their beloved and venerable 100-400 masterpieces.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

The 800mm f/11 can work with the 2x extender.... umm ok


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> I called it way back. No way they add 400-500 and take away aperture at 400 from their beloved and venerable 100-400 masterpieces.



I thought it would be f/5.6 at 400mm too. They made a huge deal about this lens.


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## bmfotonet (Jul 9, 2020)

no GPS on the R5 correct?


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> I called it way back. No way they add 400-500 and take away aperture at 400 from their beloved and venerable 100-400 masterpieces.


And I was skeptical. 

I guess that's why it rates the price premium. So, when does it jump to 6.3 then 7.1, or does it just go from 5.6 all the way to 7.1?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Billybob said:


> And I was skeptical.
> 
> I guess that's why it rates the price premium. So, when does it jump to 6.3 then 7.1, or does it just go from 5.6 all the way to 7.1?



Maybe f/6.3 by 450mm ?


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Jul 9, 2020)

The 100-500 L is the first Canon lens with *Dual Nano USM* to drive the focusing group.


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## prodorshak (Jul 9, 2020)

There is in-built intervalometer in both of them!


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

https://www.parkcameras.com/p/12421...anon-rf-800mm-f11-is-stm-super-telephoto-lens the sample images are all ISO 1600, but they look pretty good. I still don't think it is for me, but it is wildlife to the masses. It isn't £13,000.


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> 100-500 with competent f/5.6 at 400mm through to f/7.1 at 500mm according to the spec sheets on my usual shops.


Where can I see these specs sheets?

Never mind. It's stated in the preview video: https://www.parkcameras.com/p/12425...canon/canon-rf-100-500mm-f45-71-l-is-usm-lens


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## wockawocka (Jul 9, 2020)

The R6 wins it for me with dem fat pixels and dat -6.5ev


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## jolyonralph (Jul 9, 2020)

Timedog said:


> f/5.6 at 400! Suddenly that lens makes sense!



We've been saying it's going to be f/5.6 at 400mm for ages


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## koenkooi (Jul 9, 2020)

Billybob said:


> Where can I see these specs sheets?







__





Here are the specifications for the Canon RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1L IS USM


Price just was pushed out: £2,899 No dollar figure yet, assume the normal windage between GBP and USD - A




www.canonrumors.com


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## blackcoffee17 (Jul 9, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> We've been saying it's going to be f/5.6 at 400mm for ages



So it's confirmed 5.6 at 400? Where do you see that info?


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## RobbieHat (Jul 9, 2020)

Interesting that the extenders only extend focal range from 300-500 mm on the 100-500mm lens. This is an interesting and potentially amazing advance. It will preserve the wide of 100 and 200 while extending the reach to 700-1000mm. I assume sacrifice in f stop throughout range but not sure about that as well. Would be amazing if it didn't impact f stop either until 300mm.


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## briangus (Jul 9, 2020)

R5 spec link


https://www.canon.com.au/cameras/-/media/files/canon/product-brochure/cameras/mirrorless-cameras/eos-r5-tech-sheet.ashx


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Interesting that the extenders only extend focal range from 300-500 mm on the 100-500mm lens. This is an interesting and potentially amazing advance. It will preserve the wide of 100 and 200 while extending the reach to 700-1000mm. I assume sacrifice in f stop throughout range but not sure about that as well. Would be amazing if it didn't impact f stop either until 300mm.



I was getting the impression that it was stopping you from zooming in closer.


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

Guess it's time to sell my 100-400l II!


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## wockawocka (Jul 9, 2020)

And the R6 tech sheet https://www.canon.com.au/cameras/-/...ras/mirrorless-cameras/eos-r6-tech-sheet.ashx


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## sobrien (Jul 9, 2020)

sobrien said:


> Confirmed! Woop.
> 
> Edit: Helps with the nostalgia tinged sadness I feel about selling my 100-400 ii yesterday.



Though Gordon Laing in his first look says f/6.3 from 343mm. Hmmm. Would be happy enough with that too though if so the launch published false information.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jul 9, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Interesting that the extenders only extend focal range from 300-500 mm on the 100-500mm lens. This is an interesting and potentially amazing advance. It will preserve the wide of 100 and 200 while extending the reach to 700-1000mm. I assume sacrifice in f stop throughout range but not sure about that as well. Would be amazing if it didn't impact f stop either until 300mm.



I think it means that you have to extend the lens to 300mm before you can mount the extender. If that's true it is actually a hindrance because you won't have
100-300mm available and also cannot pack the lens with the extender on.


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## sobrien (Jul 9, 2020)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> The 100-500 L is the first Canon lens with *Dual Nano USM* to drive the focusing group.



The RF 70-200 also has that.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

https://www.parkcameras.com/p/12425...canon/canon-rf-100-500mm-f45-71-l-is-usm-lens for my source, " The aperture range is identical to competitor models throughout focal ranges with a very competent f/5.6 at 400mm through to f/7.1 at 500mm."


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I was getting the impression that it was stopping you from zooming in closer.


Yes, I suspect that with the 1.4x it becomes a 420-700mm lens and with the 2.0x it is a 600-1000mm lens.


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

I preordered both the 100-500 and the 800mm. I think that I may cancel the 800mm order...


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## Go Wild (Jul 9, 2020)

I am sold!! Congratulations Canon!! You did it!! I even think now that the 100-500 as a fair price (I wish it was a bit cheaper but it´s fair)! Definitely I will buy the R5 and the R6 but now I am thinking also about the 100-500! The new ISO capabilities makes the F7.1 less relevant! DAmn I am even thinking in the print!!! 

I am very excited and looking forward th get my hands in this diamonds!!! THANK YOU CANON!!


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## RobbieHat (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I was getting the impression that it was stopping you from zooming in closer.


That would be a bit of a bummer and make the lens not nearly as valuable for landscape. I use my 100-400 for shooting dunes and definitely work throughout the focal range. I guess you would definitely not be using either extender as a result. 

Same with some wildlife shots. I don't always need to be at 400. Sometimes you are able to get close enough that the short end of the 100-400 is all you need or you want to add some context to the wildlife shot and shoot the animal/bird wider. Won't be useful for this situation either. Makes me think I will not be pre-ordering the extenders until I think that through a bit more.

After re-reading the product introduction on the B&H site I think you are right. Limiting this lens to either a 420-700 or a 600-1000. Not sure how I feel about that. Adding and removing those extenders in field is not an option most of the time. Definitely either shooting long or over 100-500 range but not both.


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## Pompey John (Jul 9, 2020)

Do we know if the IBIS will be working with EF lenses with the adaptor or will it turn off. I saw mentioned working with other manufacturer lenses if you input the focal length but I can't seem to find any mention of the integration with EF lenses. Anyone know ?


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## HenryL (Jul 9, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I think it means that you have to extend the lens to 300mm before you can mount the extender. If that's true it is actually a hindrance because you won't have
> 100-300mm available and also cannot pack the lens with the extender on.


This. Here's what DPreview has in their write-up:

"The 100-500mm is compatible with Canon's new RF 1.4x and 2x teleconverters, though the lens must be set to 300mm or longer before one can be attached. A physical hard stop prevents the user from accidentally zooming out past 300mm with these teleconverters."


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## Franklyok (Jul 9, 2020)

DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [2600 Mb/s] 

compared to 

1dx3 5.5K raw at 2800 Mb/s

What does this say about streams quality ?


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## jolyonralph (Jul 9, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> no GPS on the R5 correct?



No GPS. Probably because of the Chinese market.



blackcoffee17 said:


> So it's confirmed 5.6 at 400? Where do you see that info?



It was mentioned on the live stream that it has approximately the same light gathering as the EF 100-400 at those ranges, and specifically f/5.6 at 400mm.


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

Viggo said:


> So 8 stops with IBIS alone?


My take from the launch on that is you get 8 stops - but only when using both the R5/R6 with an appropriate R lens - i.e.. use a lens without IBIS, or non-RF lens, and you don't get the full 8 stops. They didn't mention this, but I think I gathered it must be around 5 stops to the lens and 3 to the body, to get the 8 (?)


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> That would be a bit of a bummer and make the lens not nearly as valuable for landscape. I use my 100-400 for shooting dunes and definitely work throughout the focal range. I guess you would definitely not be using either extender as a result.
> 
> Same with some wildlife shots. I don't always need to be at 400. Sometimes you are able to get close enough that the short end of the 100-400 is all you need or you want to add some context to the wildlife shot and shoot the animal/bird wider. Won't be useful for this situation either. Makes me think I will not be pre-ordering the extenders until I think that through a bit more.



See I kinda start at 200mm so the 100mm range does nothing for me. But in saying that I always have my Nikon Z6 with me and the 50mm or 85mm attached to it. Really compact second camera for if I need closer shots. It is so light you don't feel it and the Nikon 50mm an 85mm Z lenses are fantastic, honestly even if I go for the R5 and 100-500 until the primes come out, I'll still keep my Z6 and its little primes.


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## JoTomOz (Jul 9, 2020)

600mm and 800mm fixed at f/11... not sure how I feel about that. Images look pretty decent though


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## briangus (Jul 9, 2020)

Pompey John said:


> Do we know if the IBIS will be working with EF lenses with the adaptor or will it turn off. I saw mentioned working with other manufacturer lenses if you input the focal length but I can't seem to find any mention of the integration with EF lenses. Anyone know ?



In the Singapore presentation they stated that EF and RF lenses would both work in conjunction with IBIS


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

HenryL said:


> This. Here's what DPreview has in their write-up:
> 
> "The 100-500mm is compatible with Canon's new RF 1.4x and 2x teleconverters, though the lens must be set to 300mm or longer before one can be attached. A physical hard stop prevents the user from accidentally zooming out past 300mm with these teleconverters."



The painful price of ultra-high IQ TC performance I suppose, which better rival a lens without one.


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## Doug7131 (Jul 9, 2020)

Franklyok said:


> DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [2600 Mb/s]
> 
> compared to
> 
> ...


It's RAW so it will be the same. Remember the data rate for the 1DX3 is at 60FPS 5.5K. The pixel throughput is very similar between 5.5K/60 and 8K/30.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

No pixel shift. Yet. Guessing the rumor of the surprise feature for still photographers was false.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

R5 around 20 minutes of 8k without overheating. So there's your gotcha if you where hoping for 8k. Of course in Sunny Scotland I'll be able to shoot all day and night.


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## iheartcanon (Jul 9, 2020)

briangus said:


> R5 spec link
> 
> 
> https://www.canon.com.au/cameras/-/media/files/canon/product-brochure/cameras/mirrorless-cameras/eos-r5-tech-sheet.ashx


No high frame rate for FHD video, only 60fps?


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## dtaylor (Jul 9, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> Is Canon still *******?



There is a doom cloud in view, but it's hovering over Sony headquarters.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

Well damn. I was really skeptical about the f5.6 at 400 on the 100-500. Was sure it was gonna be f6.3. Guess I gotta put it on the wishlist now.


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## Colorado (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> My take from the launch on that is you get 8 stops - but only when using both the R5/R6 with an appropriate R lens - i.e.. use a lens without IBIS, or non-RF lens, and you don't get the full 8 stops. They didn't mention this, but I think I gathered it must be around 5 stops to the lens and 3 to the body, to get the 8 (?)


It appears to be body only and varies from 6-8 stops depending on the lens attached. Here's a chart from dpreview.com. 

8 stops

24-70mm F2.8L
24-105mm F4L
24-105mm F4-7.1
28-70mm F2L
85mm F1.2L
85mm F2 Macro
7.5 stops

70-200mm F2.8L
7 stops

15-35mm F2.8L
35mm F1.8 IS
50mm F1.2L
6.5 stops

24-240mm F4-6.3
6 stops

100-500mm F4.5-7.1L


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

If anyone finds a review talking about the dynamic range/shadow recovery performance, please post a link. Not finding anything yet.


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## Sharlin (Jul 9, 2020)

Timedog said:


> f/5.6 at 400! Suddenly that lens makes sense!



You really think that f/5.6 versus, say, f/6.3 at 400mm would make even a slightest bit of difference in whether this lens makes sense?  Damn people are fixated at that f/5.6 figure only because it used to be a limit in a legacy AF system.


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## Sharlin (Jul 9, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Interesting that the extenders only extend focal range from 300-500 mm on the 100-500mm lens. This is an interesting and potentially amazing advance. It will preserve the wide of 100 and 200 while extending the reach to 700-1000mm. I assume sacrifice in f stop throughout range but not sure about that as well. Would be amazing if it didn't impact f stop either until 300mm.



What? The extenders can only be _physically attached_ to the lens at 300mm or greater. Below that the rear element of the lens would hit the extender's front element. There's an interlock that prevents that from happening.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> You really think that f/5.6 versus, say, f/6.3 at 400mm would make even a slightest bit of difference in whether this lens makes sense?  Damn people are fixated at that f/5.6 figure only because it used to be a limit in a legacy AF system.



I think it is more about there not being any compromise from the 100-400 II f/5.6. People want to feel the lens is a 1:1 upgrade.


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## Sibir Lupus (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> R5 around 20 minutes of 8k without overheating. So there's your gotcha if you where hoping for 8k. Of course in Sunny Scotland I'll be able to shoot all day and night.



How is that a "gotcha"?? 8K recording with DPAF II plus full sensor readout with no crop AND no fan to cool the camera. Seeing as this isn't a cinema camera with a fan and a $10K+ price tag, 20 minutes of 8K recording seems reasonable for a camera designed to be well rounded while still offering high end capability for both stills and video .


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## Sharlin (Jul 9, 2020)

Franklyok said:


> DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [2600 Mb/s]
> 
> compared to
> 
> ...



Nothing. The 1DX3's 2800Mb/s figure is at 60fps. And 5.5K60fps is roughly the same amount of data as 8K30fps.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Sibir Lupus said:


> How is that a "gotcha"?? 8K recording with DPAF II plus full sensor readout and no crop AND no fan to cool the camera. Seeing as this isn't a cinema camera with a fan and a $10K price tag, 20 minutes of 8K recording seems reasonable for a camera designed to well rounded while still offering high end capability for both stills and video .



Normally just under 30 minutes is the record limit. People where looking for the gotcha on 8k recording. Personally I think 20 minutes of 8k before it gets too hot is solid and that'll be when you need to put in the second 512 GB CF Express card. But aye, thats the gotcha people where worried about, if it matters to you or not. Mine will likely only ever record 5 minutes of my snake exploring the garden then I'll get back to still for the lifetime of the camera.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jul 9, 2020)

Very salty people on Sony rumors. "What about image quality?". And Canon is "WAY behind in image quality".


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## JoTomOz (Jul 9, 2020)

Any word on how the silent shutter handles moving subjects? The Original Eos R left a lot to be desired in that department.


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## Sharlin (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I think it is more about there not being any compromise from the 100-400 II f/5.6. People want to feel the lens is a 1:1 upgrade.



I guess so. The numbers are rounded anyway, the 100–400mm is more like 388mm/5.8 according to the patent.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Very salty people on Sony rumors. "What about image quality?". And Canon is "WAY behind in image quality".



Cameras and games consoles, where third place seems to get more attention than second. Sony is in the "others" category in cameras with Nikon and Canon being the big players. Like somehow the Xbox got a lot of coverage too and its the 3rd seat console.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I guess so. The numbers are rounded anyway, the 100–400mm is more like 388mm/5.8 according to the patent.



Aye there are a few lenses like that. Like computer hard drives are always a wee bit less. But still the 100-400 is a great lens and I think the 100-500 will be just as good. I just need to choose if I want the 100-500 or if I'll get the Nikon 500mm f/5.6. I look forward to the reviews.


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## nighthawk82 (Jul 9, 2020)

Ok. So... I haven't read everything yet, but anyone figured out what is that "surprise we still don't know about the R5" that was being mentioned a few days ago?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

nighthawk82 said:


> Ok. So... I haven't read everything yet, but anyone figured out what is that "surprise we still don't know about the R5" that was being mentioned a few days ago?



DPAF II I think is the feature, the AF seems like a huge improvement.


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## Richard Anthony (Jul 9, 2020)

Ordered the R5 been told will have it in 4 weeks


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

Colorado said:


> It appears to be body only and varies from 6-8 stops depending on the lens attached. Here's a chart from dpreview.com.
> 
> 8 stops
> 
> ...


Aah, okay - well found!

I wonder then how many stops you get with EF lenses? Just 5-ish from the body, some extra from the lens, or actually less because IBIS isn't optimised to go with EF lenses?


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## rbielefeld (Jul 9, 2020)

I really hope that Canon has the rolling shutter under control. I have shot Canon for a long time and I now shoot a Sony a9II as well as my Canon bodies. The a9II has basically no rolling shutter at 20fps electronic on fast moving subjects such as birds in flight. If the R5 can match that I will be back to Canon full time. Please be no rolling shutter on fast moving subjects like diving Belted Kingfishers. If anyone can provide a link to images of birds in flight with electronic shutter I would love to see them.


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## rbielefeld (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Aah, okay - well found!
> 
> I wonder then how many stops you get with EF lenses? Just 5-ish from the body, some extra from the lens, or actually less because IBIS isn't optimised to go with EF lenses?


I am thinking most folks will be pleasantly surprised at how well the IBIS system works with adapted EF lenses. Why? Because I have always been impressed with Canon IS system. Compared to what Sony's system can do with IBIS and Lens SteadyShot working together, which is not good IMO, Canon's IS alone does better. So, add in IBIS and have IS on your EF lens and I bet it will still be quite impressive. I never get hung up on how many stops it will provide etc. All I care about is how well it helps me in the field. Canon's IS has always been amazing when hand holding 1200mm and now with IBIS added in, I can only imagine it will be even better.


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## Viggo (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> My take from the launch on that is you get 8 stops - but only when using both the R5/R6 with an appropriate R lens - i.e.. use a lens without IBIS, or non-RF lens, and you don't get the full 8 stops. They didn't mention this, but I think I gathered it must be around 5 stops to the lens and 3 to the body, to get the 8 (?)


Probably , and I should know better than to trust “explorer of light” people when it comes to hard specs and technical stuff


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## Viggo (Jul 9, 2020)

Colorado said:


> It appears to be body only and varies from 6-8 stops depending on the lens attached. Here's a chart from dpreview.com.
> 
> 8 stops
> 
> ...


Well sh!t, that is killer!


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## Viggo (Jul 9, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> Any word on how the silent shutter handles moving subjects? The Original Eos R left a lot to be desired in that department.


They spoke of it in the event; she asked ; “why the need for a mechanical shutter” and he went on to say that it will skew moving subjects, cause banding and can’t be used with flash, so I guess rolling shutter is very much and issue with electronic shutter still.


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## drama (Jul 9, 2020)

Seems as if the bodies are 5 stops of IS, and different lenses add different additional stops, reading between the lines. So it's "between 5 and 8" for each compatible IS lens. 

Which is crazy, and I assume one of the surprises. If they improve IS in new cameras, that can be revolutionary. Gimbal makers be sweating right now... in fact, I'm curious if the IS plays well with gimbals....


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## koenkooi (Jul 9, 2020)

drama said:


> Seems as if the bodies are 5 stops of IS, and different lenses add different additional stops, reading between the lines. So it's "between 5 and 8" for each compatible IS lens.
> 
> Which is crazy, and I assume one of the surprises. If they improve IS in new cameras, that can be revolutionary. Gimbal makers be sweating right now... in fact, I'm curious if the IS plays well with gimbals....



The non-IS RF85L is listed as having 8 stops. Gordon mentioned in his preview that it's related to the image circle, the bigger the image circle the lens provides, the more room the IBIS has to move.


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## Fischer (Jul 9, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> You really think that f/5.6 versus, say, f/6.3 at 400mm would make even a slightest bit of difference in whether this lens makes sense?  Damn people are fixated at that f/5.6 figure only because it used to be a limit in a legacy AF system.


People happily pay 2x the price to go from an excellent f/4.0 zoom to an excellent f/2.8 zoom - so even if you do not care about f-stops others do, and it has nothing to do with legacy AF systems at all.


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## Fischer (Jul 9, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I guess so. The numbers are rounded anyway, the 100–400mm is more like 388mm/5.8 according to the patent.


Yes, but the same is true for all our optics. So this lens will also _not _be exactly 500mm f/7.1 either. And we also do not know about focus breathing. So the numbers do matter.


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## rbielefeld (Jul 9, 2020)

Viggo said:


> They spoke of it in the event; she asked ; “why the need for a mechanical shutter” and he went on to say that it will skew moving subjects, cause banding and can’t be used with flash, so I guess rolling shutter is very much and issue with electronic shutter still.


I did hear that, but as I did not "want" to hear that, I tried to block it out of my mind. Well, I have an R5 ordered, so I will see for myself if the rolling shutter is too bad to use for my main line of work; birds in flight. Could always fall back to the mechanical shutter, but loosing that much fps speed is not optimal for me. I know, who needs 20 fps? Well, I do. When you shoot fast moving wildlife those extra frames often contain the "holy grail" shot.


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## Besisika (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> https://www.parkcameras.com/p/12421...anon-rf-800mm-f11-is-stm-super-telephoto-lens the sample images are all ISO 1600, but they look pretty good. I still don't think it is for me, but it is wildlife to the masses. It isn't £13,000.


It is difficult to judge it given small size of JPG file. I would wait. What impresses me is the " 1120mm. 1/40th sec. ISO 1600. f/11 ". That shutter speed is insane for the focal length.
The lenses may not be for nature photog, but for photojournalists it might be the right gear given the size, weight and IBIS.


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## gwooding (Jul 9, 2020)

So as interesting as these announcements are, their price here in South Africa is completely insane.

When i purchased my 1Dx Mk2 new in 2016 I paid around R75000 (it was on special at the time normal price has around R80000). The EOS R5 is listed here for pre-order at R81595. I can still get a brand new 1Dx mk2 from the same store for R89000 (mk3 is R133000). I can also get myself a Canon EF 400 f2.8 mk2 for around the same price as a EOS R5.

Now this is not entirely Canon's fault, the exchange rate has has gone from R14.10/$1 to R16.88/$1 (so a 20% increase) but as you can see Canon pricing in South Africa has gone crazy, we used to pay roughly the equivalent price here in R that you would pay in the US (sometimes even a bit less with salaries being much lower here in general).

The lens prices are equally insane.

It will probably be quite a long time before I consider any of the newer Canon gear for these reasons alone - luckily I can still pick up lots of awesome used gear at not so insane prices.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Besisika said:


> It is difficult to judge it given small size of JPG file. I would wait. What impresses me is the " 1120mm. 1/40th sec. ISO 1600. f/11 ". That shutter speed is insane for the focal length.
> The lenses may not be for nature photog, but for photojournalists it might be the right gear given the size, weight and IBIS.



This really depends on your goal. I think most photos from the 800mm f/11 will end up on someones Facebook or passed around on a iPad. The person buying it isn't paying £40 per photo to print these images for a gallery or even for their house. Now that isn't to say put in the hands of a pro you won't be able to get pro results, the OOF area in the images certainly show you can get good separation in much the same way you can get bad separation on a f/4 lens if there is a lot of twigs behind your bird subject. But till now there was no FF 800mm lens under £10,000.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Not being talked about yet I think. That EVF is 120FPS vs the 60FPS in the R, that'll be a huge improvement for using the camera more than just the base specs, especially if the latency from sensor to EVF is lower.


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## magarity (Jul 9, 2020)

None of this stuff is in the Buyer's Guide yet so I can't tell if I should get one or not.

Wasn't there supposed to be a new flash? I don't see it.


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Aye there are a few lenses like that. Like computer hard drives are always a wee bit less. But still the 100-400 is a great lens and I think the 100-500 will be just as good. I just need to choose if I want the 100-500 or if I'll get the Nikon 500mm f/5.6. I look forward to the reviews.


Those are two options for getting to 500mm. However, these lenses are very different. The 100-500 is a far more flexible lens and likely has noticeably worst IQ (excellent IQ, but not at the same level as the Nikon prime). I have the Nikon 500mm, and the IQ is superb, but I find it limiting. I always have a second camera with a zoom attached, because 500 is too long if a bird or animal moves in too close or you just don't have enough room for 500mm. I've put in an order for the 100-500--I haven't decided whether I'm keeping the Nikon prime; three different systems is just too many--because the flexibility (both in size and FL range) is highly desirable.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> This really depends on your goal. I think most photos from the 800mm f/11 will end up on someones Facebook or passed around on a iPad. The person buying it isn't paying £40 per photo to print these images for a gallery or even for their house. Now that isn't to say put in the hands of a pro you won't be able to get pro results, the OOF area in the images certainly show you can get good separation in much the same way you can get bad separation on a f/4 lens if there is a lot of twigs behind your bird subject. But till now there was no FF 800mm lens under £10,000.



If the IQ is good those lenses will be very usable in many situations. Seen many award winning shots made at F11 and F13. 
The 1DX sensor with the new IBIS in the R6 cab make these lenses very useful.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 9, 2020)

Some thoughts as I go through the various spec's:

Disappointed that the R6 didn't get the same high resolution EVF as the R5. That seemed to good to be true. I guess that's why they are called rumors. It does run at the higher refresh rate so that's a good thing. Maybe the lower pixel count reduces lag.

E3 Remote port on the 6R?

6D level weather sealing. I guess that's fine.

R6 allows 2X the max ISO setting of the R5. Don't know if actually means anything. Doubt I'll be shooting at ISO 204800.

The telephotos have fixed apertures at f11. Or no physical aperture at all I suppose. As G Liang says, very much like a spotting scope. I guess that saves money. Scopers love that deep look. Makes sense. Why woiuld you want to stop down an f11 lens? Duh..Video shooters where you have a defined shutter speed Not sure what a VND that big is going to cost but it wont be cheap

Looks like the tele-prime foot just take a 1/4" thread from a mounting plate. hopefuly it has some kind of anti-twist. I guess you can directly screw in a BR button for carrying on a BR strap. It doesn't rotate. Hood comes with!

No DCI on the R6


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## HikeBike (Jul 9, 2020)

I realize we all still need to get these cameras in our hands to be certain, but it suuuuure seems like both of these are nothing short of amazing. Well done, Canon. Well done.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Billybob said:


> Those are two options for getting to 500mm. However, these lenses are very different. The 100-500 is a far more flexible lens and likely has noticeably worst IQ (excellent IQ, but not at the same level as the Nikon prime). I have the Nikon 500mm, and the IQ is superb, but I find it limiting. I always have a second camera with a zoom attached, because 500 is too long if a bird or animal moves in too close or you just don't have enough room for 500mm. I've put in an order for the 100-500--I haven't decided whether I'm keeping the Nikon prime; three different systems is just too many--because the flexibility (both in size and FL range) is highly desirable.



Aye, the main selling point for me on that prime is it is small and optically excellent. My main wildlife lens till now has been a 300mm f/2.8 form 1988 which is really sharp and produces lovely images. But now I want more reach and the best IQ I can get from that reach. But I also want to be able to get up a hill. ATM I always have my Canon with the 300mm and my Nikon Z6 with the 50 or 85mm on it. So my fill the gap plan with the prime would be perhaps the R5 with the 70-200. I'll need to try out a few combos but the R5 and 100-500 is certainly way up there.


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> DPAF II I think is the feature, the AF seems like a huge improvement.


You may be right, but I'm not convinced that is such a 'surprise for stills shooters' as touted, and like nighthawk82, I'm wondering where the surprise is...


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## freejay (Jul 9, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I think it means that you have to extend the lens to 300mm before you can mount the extender. If that's true it is actually a hindrance because you won't have
> 100-300mm available and also cannot pack the lens with the extender on.


I guess you just can't get a sharp image below 300. You can put it on: See Gordon Laing's (?) video:


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## snappy604 (Jul 9, 2020)

freejay said:


> I guess you just can't get a sharp image below 300. You can put it on: See Gordon Laing's (?) video:



Was just watching one of his reviews on the R5 and one of the battery grips comes with a gigabit wired network port! hardcore  and so far liking his reviews, they seem less drama, more info.


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

HikeBike said:


> I realize we all still need to get these cameras in our hands to be certain, but it suuuuure seems like both of these are nothing short of amazing. Well done, Canon. Well done.


I agree with you there. I'm in the camp of holding out for a 5DmkV, and have been a bit 'meh' about mirrorless - nothing against it, just happy where I am - but I have to admit that having seen the launch event today, and the AF capabilities in particular, I'm now feeling an itchy wallet


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## freejay (Jul 9, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> If anyone finds a review talking about the dynamic range/shadow recovery performance, please post a link. Not finding anything yet.


There's nothing there yet: They only had pre-production cameras and weren't allowed to take pictures - or at least talk about it.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> You may be right, but I'm not convinced that is such a 'surprise for stills shooters' as touted, and like nighthawk82, I'm wondering where the surprise is...



DPAF 2 and the 120Hz EVF are bigger changes for stills than anything else I could imagine. You are looking though that EVF all day and that is a class leading one. 

Also of note the R6 and R have 6 series weather sealing and the 5 has 5 series weather sealing. Honestly I like that they share a grip and the like but I would have liked to really go more to the Nikon Z route with the only difference being the sensor. If I want a high MP monster or need a low light pro, why should I have to pick between a weaker build to get the low light. Unless the R5 also has class leading high ISO.


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## freejay (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Not being talked about yet I think. That EVF is 120FPS vs the 60FPS in the R, that'll be a huge improvement for using the camera more than just the base specs, especially if the latency from sensor to EVF is lower.


Unfortunately the 122FPS mode drains the battery even faster...


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## mppix (Jul 9, 2020)

This was the funeral of Canon SLR bodies


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

freejay said:


> Unfortunately the 122FPS mode drains the battery even faster...



Grip and the 6 batteries I have just now plus 2 new ones. We'll EVF's being the major selling point of the next 2 R1 series bodies then it'll just be expected to be 300fps 0ms latency, like we had with start up time being a selling point until instant on was the expectation.


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## Jim Corbett (Jul 9, 2020)

I'm offended.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Ah the f/11 lenses don't stop down, they must be really simple designs. So no aperture blades in them?


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## Grimbald (Jul 9, 2020)

Did anyone read or hear something about external power of the R5/R6? For longer videos or timelapses, it would be a much welcomed feature to have the possibility to charge with a Powerbank while the camera is shooting or recording. 

Also, did anyone see any raw files yet?  I know Canon doesn't give out any specs regarding DR or ISO noise, except saying that it's "improved" which can mean a ton of things....


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Grimbald said:


> Did anyone read or hear something about external power of the R5/R6? For longer videos or timelapses, it would be a much welcomed feature to have the possibility to charge with a Powerbank while the camera is shooting or recording.
> 
> Also, did anyone see any raw files yet?  I know Canon doesn't give out any specs regarding DR or ISO noise, except saying that it's "improved" which can mean a ton of things....



There was a USB-C port in the battery trap door, unless it is a pass through for the grip.

The RAW files will make the front page for sure and you likely can't do anything with them until the bodies ship and Lightroom and CaptureOne catch up.


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> DPAF 2 and the 120Hz EVF are bigger changes for stills than anything else I could imagine. You are looking though that EVF all day and that is a class leading one.



Codebunny, 
You're quite right - those are great specs, and definitely not to be knocked.
But....... I still don't find them a "surprise" ...... maybe it's just that I hold Canon in high enough regard that I have unrealistic expectations about what would 'surprise' me in a new product launch  (My problem - no-one else's).
Cheers
Stoical


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## snappy604 (Jul 9, 2020)

Grimbald said:


> Did anyone read or hear something about external power of the R5/R6? For longer videos or timelapses, it would be a much welcomed feature to have the possibility to charge with a Powerbank while the camera is shooting or recording.
> 
> Also, did anyone see any raw files yet?  I know Canon doesn't give out any specs regarding DR or ISO noise, except saying that it's "improved" which can mean a ton of things....


As someone indicated, it can be continuously charged via USB C... however it requires either Canon's power adapter or a laptop level of USB C power charging capability


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> Was just watching one of his reviews on the R5 and one of the battery grips comes with a gigabit wired network port! hardcore  and so far liking his reviews, they seem less drama, more info.


Yeah - I'll second the vote for Gordon's reviews. Liked his R5 mini-review. (He says there is a fuller one to come).


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

I think battery life could become a talking point. Just as well the new battery has an increase in power - Gordon Laing's review mentions getting around 320 (he may have said 360?) shots when using EVF from one battery and more like 490 using the screen. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the camera - just think the grip may be less of an 'optional extra' and more of a 'required accessory' (at least for me).


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I think battery life could become a talking point. Just as well the new battery has an increase in power - Gordon Laing's review mentions getting around 320 (he may have said 360?) shots when using EVF from one battery and more like 490 using the screen.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the camera - just think the grip may be less of an 'optional extra' and more of a 'required accessory' (at least for me).



Below is a quote from the specks on Park Camera. Which put it inline with something like a 7D Mark II. Going solo battery does not sound like a good time. So bring a couple spare batteries with you(I have a half dozen of the older model) and a grip if you are really serious. For wildlife I am bringing a grip and spare batteries.


Edit: I just checked the Z6 and Z7 are 330 shots per battery. And the R is Approx. 70 shots.... I am sure all three of these cameras do a lot better than that so take the below spec with a huge grain of salt.


POWER
Rechargeable Li-ion Battery LP-E6NH (supplied) or LP-E6N
Battery life With LCD Approx. 490 shots (at 23°C)
With LCD Approx. 320 (at 23°C)


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## Sharlin (Jul 9, 2020)

Fischer said:


> People happily pay 2x the price to go from an excellent f/4.0 zoom to an excellent f/2.8 zoom - so even if you do not care about f-stops others do, and it has nothing to do with legacy AF systems at all.



One stop of difference over the whole FL range of a lens is a real deal. Less than 1/3 stop of a difference in what may be a tiny span around 400mm is a rounding error. After all, lenses don't really work in nice 1/3-EV steps, and neither does the world at large. But 1/3 EV is a tiny enough difference to allow camera (and photographers) to work as if the world really were discrete like that. A 100–500mm lens that tells the camera to switch to f/6.3 at 405mm is technically different from one that switches already at 395mm in that only the first is "f/5.6 at 400mm". But thinking there's a real-world difference is just absurd.


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

> Timedog said:
> f/5.6 at 400! Suddenly that lens makes sense!





jolyonralph said:


> No GPS. Probably because of the Chinese market.
> 
> 
> 
> It was mentioned on the live stream that it has approximately the same light gathering as the EF 100-400 at those ranges, and specifically f/5.6 at 400mm.



Over on DPR, someone noticed fine print that revealed that f/5.6 at 400mm is available when the camera is set to 1/2 stop aperture changes rather than the customary and more-precise 1/3 stop difference.

In short, Gordon Laing is likely correct that the lens drops to f/6.3 before 400mm. For me, if true, this is not a big deal. However, YMMV, and this is a rather tacky way--and daresay I, a deceptive way--to conduct business.


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## Ozarker (Jul 9, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Clean ISO up to 12K. Canon: serving up crow for breakfast today.


And it's been in the refrigerator. Ice cold crow.


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## Sharlin (Jul 9, 2020)

Grimbald said:


> Also, did anyone see any raw files yet?  I know Canon doesn't give out any specs regarding DR or ISO noise, except saying that it's "improved" which can mean a ton of things....



DPR has published RAW files from the R6. Very unlikely that there's anything fundamentally different from 1DX3 photos. They haven't gotten their hands on a full production copy of the R5 yet, so no RAWs or full-size JPEGs as of now.


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## john1970 (Jul 9, 2020)

I saw these specs on the R5 frame rates. Can someone explain to me what Mode A, Mode B and Mode C are?


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## Sharlin (Jul 9, 2020)

Billybob said:


> Over on DPR, someone noticed fine print that revealed that f/5.6 at 400mm is available when the camera is set to 1/2 stop aperture changes rather than the customary and more-precise 1/3 stop difference.
> 
> In short, Gordon Laing is likely correct that the lens drops to f/6.3 before 400mm. For me, if true, this is not a big deal. However, YMMV, and this is a rather tacky way--and daresay I, a deceptive way--to conduct business.



Well, they did say "approximately". Given that the aperture values reported by the lens are approximations anyway, I really can't bring myself to care.


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## secant (Jul 9, 2020)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> The 100-500 L is the first Canon lens with *Dual Nano USM* to drive the focusing group.


I've used the 70-300mm and 18-135 Nano USM and they are like the fastest focusing I've ever used. I can't even imagine how fast Dual Nano USM is wow.

Overall, an exciting and anticipated launch. I think the official launch don't have too much surprises because Canon rumors have got a lot of the major points accurate. The price for the R5 and R6 are good to know, and also kind of expected from people here as well. Don't matter to me anyway cause I'll probably won't get any of them until like 2022 Christmas or later. Basically I am more the, "nice the R5/6 launched, time to get the R/RP," or "nice the 6D II is out, time to get the 6D" kind of person.

The 85/2 IS is interesting but like some people here said already, based on the price, I might just keep using the lovely and affordable EF 85/1.8. The 600 and 800 are interesting, as Codebunny said, "wildlife to the masses". But I just don't shoot that long, the 70-300 I have is generally enough for me.


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Well, they did say "approximately". Given that the aperture values reported by the lens are approximations anyway, I really can't bring myself to care.


It doesn't matter to me either. f/5.6 or f/6.3 isn't going to ruin shots for me. However, I did see one video where the paid Canon photographer (I forget their title) claimed emphatically that it was f/5.6. I can live with "approximately", but the precise assertion of fact that aren't true I find irritating (though not enough to cancel my preorder ).


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## koch1948 (Jul 9, 2020)

When the EOS R1 comes out in 1-2 years, I wonder if it will basically be an updated EOS R5 with built-in GPS, 2-CFexpress cards, fixed LCD screen, LP-E19 battery, and the rugged ergonomics of the EOS-1D X Mark III?


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## HikeBike (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I agree with you there. I'm in the camp of holding out for a 5DmkV, and have been a bit 'meh' about mirrorless - nothing against it, just happy where I am - but I have to admit that having seen the launch event today, and the AF capabilities in particular, I'm now feeling an itchy wallet


I'm very much questioning if a 5D Mk V will materialize at this point, especially if the EVF on the R5 is everything it's supposed to be.


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## secant (Jul 9, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> When the EOS R1 comes out in 1-2 years, I wonder if it will basically be an updated EOS R5 with built-in GPS, 2-CFexpress cards, fixed LCD screen, and the rugged ergonomics of the EOS-1D X Mark III?


Canon R1 and R6. Yamaha R1 and R6. Damn I am liking these namings.


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

HikeBike said:


> I'm very much questioning if a 5D Mk V will materialize at this point, especially if the EVF on the R5 is everything it's supposed to be.


Yeah - wouldn't really surprise me too much either if it didn't come. I'd be sad not to have another DSLR, but if it doesn't come, it at least saves me agonising over the choice of 5D or R5


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## StevenA (Jul 9, 2020)

HikeBike said:


> I'm very much questioning if a 5D Mk V will materialize at this point, especially if the EVF on the R5 is everything it's supposed to be.



I honestly can't fathom a V would be released. IMO Canon is moving away from DSLR and focusing on mirrorless. Look at all the lenses and now 4 camera bodies - with a R1 rumored on the horizon. The roadmap looks pretty clear.


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## rbielefeld (Jul 9, 2020)

StevenA said:


> I honestly can't fathom a V would be released. IMO Canon is moving away from DSLR and focusing on mirrorless. Look at all the lenses and now 4 camera bodies - with a R1 rumored on the horizon. The roadmap looks pretty clear.


I my mind, we are in the transition, industry-wide, of moving to mirrorless. Really no other way to look at it. Just like we saw the paradigm shift from film to digital, we are now in the midst of the shift from DSLR to Mirrorless. DSLRs will persist for a long time as film cameras have, but the "norm" will be mirrorless as technology keeps on its inexorable march forward; like it or not.


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## kimster (Jul 9, 2020)

In the Q&A session, I didn't like the answer the product marketing manager gave on dynamic range. I guess we will see.


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## Rivermist (Jul 9, 2020)

Grimbald said:


> Did anyone read or hear something about external power of the R5/R6? For longer videos or timelapses, it would be a much welcomed feature to have the possibility to charge with a Powerbank while the camera is shooting or recording.
> 
> Also, did anyone see any raw files yet?  I know Canon doesn't give out any specs regarding DR or ISO noise, except saying that it's "improved" which can mean a ton of things....


You can use the LP-E6 power source that has existed for some years, the original product is the Canon AC Adapter Kit ACK-E6, unlimited power for video and time lapse applications.


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## SteveC (Jul 9, 2020)

So far my only disappointment is the 24-105 L f/4 kit not giving you any kind of price break.

I suppose it's possible they'll throw in a no-control-ring adapter for "free" and thereby make the bundle a bit better than a push, but at this point I'd rather have the hundred bucks, since I bought two control-ring adapters from the refurb department already. (Or, alternatively, offer to swap the no-control-ring adapter out for one with control ring for $100, which is the price difference between the two at retail.)

I put in a pre-order (and paid $1000 down) a couple of weeks ago at a brick-and-mortar place. So I should have my R5 pretty close to the 30th.


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## HikeBike (Jul 9, 2020)

I'm not one of the guys that bashes other manufacturers (though I've always been partial to Canon...I will surely admit their shortcomings)...but my best buddy is a Sony shooter, and I will definitely be giving him a hard time about this. And when Sony releases the A7 IV, I'm sure I'll get what's coming to me.


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## Juangrande (Jul 9, 2020)

Viggo said:


> So 8 stops with IBIS alone?


No go back and read it again. It’s say up to 8 stops when used in conjunction with IS lenses.


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## SteveC (Jul 9, 2020)

HikeBike said:


> I'm not one of the guys that bashes other manufacturers (though I've always been partial to Canon...I will surely admit their shortcomings)...but my best buddy is a Sony shooter, and I will definitely be giving him a hard time about this. And when Sony releases the A7 IV, I'm sure I'll get what's coming to me.



Or maybe you won't. It's going to be tough to outdo this.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

I'm sure the IS lenses do work in conjunction with the IBIS, but apparently the image circle is a bigger factor in determining how many stops of stabilization you get. This is why the 28-70, which has no lens IS, can still get the top end 8-stops. 

I am hyped about the video IBIS. Was hoping they would be on Panasonic/Olympus levels and that is exactly what DPReview enlikened it to.


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## koenkooi (Jul 9, 2020)

Juangrande said:


> No go back and read it again. It’s say up to 8 stops when used in conjunction with IS lenses.


The non-IS RF85L is listed as having 8 stops with ibis.


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## londonxt (Jul 9, 2020)

kimster said:


> In the Q&A session, I didn't like the answer the product marketing manager gave on dynamic range. I guess we will see.



1 stop increase on the R? I think thats pretty exciting seeing as the R DR is good already


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## Berowne (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Ah the f/11 lenses don't stop down, they must be really simple designs. So no aperture blades in them?



Correct, no aperture blades.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I think battery life could become a talking point. Just as well the new battery has an increase in power - Gordon Laing's review mentions getting around 320 (he may have said 360?) shots when using EVF from one battery and more like 490 using the screen.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the camera - just think the grip may be less of an 'optional extra' and more of a 'required accessory' (at least for me).


Battery life was suppose to be a big deal on the R and I have never really had any issues, I tend to take the shot(s) and switch the camera off. When recording video I mostly shoot short 5 min max clips and again never really had issues. 

I have spare batteries but mostly because I read about the need for them and that just never really panned out for me. Sounds like you can power the Camera using a PD powerbank not just charge so that will help with any power issues if true.


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## RobbieHat (Jul 9, 2020)

londonxt said:


> 1 stop increase on the R? I think thats pretty exciting seeing as the R DR is good already


That would be awesome if true. Basically inline with the Nikon and Sony sensors or a hair behind. I will definitely use that in my landscape work. Less bracketing!


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## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Battery life was suppose to be a big deal on the R and I have never really had any issues, I tend to take the shot(s) and switch the camera off. When recording video I mostly shoot short 5 min max clips and again never really had issues.
> 
> I have spare batteries but mostly because I read about the need for them and that just never really panned out for me. Sounds like you can power the Camera using a PD powerbank not just charge so that will help with any power issues if true.


Good to hear - thanks.


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## StevenA (Jul 9, 2020)

Juangrande said:


> No go back and read it again. It’s say up to 8 stops when used in conjunction with IS lenses.



In one of the Canon promo vids I could have sworn I heard someone say they can hand-hold for 4 seconds using the R5/IS lens combo. That seems to good to be true. But she repeated it several times and seemed pretty adamant.

I guess we'll see.


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## RobbieHat (Jul 9, 2020)

StevenA said:


> In one of the Canon promo vids I could have sworn I heard someone say they can hand-hold for 4 seconds using the R5/IS lens combo. That seems to good to be true. But hey repeated it several times and seemed pretty adamant.
> 
> I guess we'll see.


It was the portrait photographer that was shooting the dancer. She handheld a four second shot with the model moving and the room still. Looked pretty cool but you couldn’t analyze details to be sure.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

I cannot believe my eyes. That looks, dare I say, like class leading level In Body Image Stabilization. It's like a Panasonic or Olympus... but full frame.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

It will be interesting now to see what the R1 will bring. I think battery life to keep the EVF at 120FPS and instant On are going to be the killer 1 series features. A fully gripped camera. Also very interested to see the Z6s and Z7s compared to the R5 and R6, if the second processor and extra memory will be enough to bring them in line.


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## masterpix (Jul 9, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I have two problems with the R5:
1) I can't afford it at the moment
2) I wish that there was 5DmarkV simialr to it. I still like to see the actual light through the viewfinder.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jul 9, 2020)

The thing that shocked me most was that Canon guy saying that RF is the mount for the next 25 years. It pretty much sounded like the EF era is over, which would be really sad. I will always prefer DSLRs. When did the last EF lens from Canon come out? I am still hoping for a DSLR with IBIS, although you will not see the effect of IBIS while composing the photo on a DSLR.

The 800mm f/11 is great. Finally a somehow affordable 800mm lens. With the R5 the problem with diffraction will occur though. Diffraction starts becoming visible above f/7.1 on the R5. 

For my taste a $3800 camera should be much bigger and heavier. It looks strange with a large lense mounted. I still would prefer an R1 with a weight of over one kilo and an non-removabe battery grip and enough power for at least 1,500 shots.


----------



## Random Orbits (Jul 9, 2020)

HenryL said:


> This. Here's what DPreview has in their write-up:
> 
> "The 100-500mm is compatible with Canon's new RF 1.4x and 2x teleconverters, though the lens must be set to 300mm or longer before one can be attached. A physical hard stop prevents the user from accidentally zooming out past 300mm with these teleconverters."



This is the 70-300L with TCs all over again. Makes my decision easier -- won't have to buy TCs... for now.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

Grimbald said:


> Did anyone read or hear something about external power of the R5/R6? For longer videos or timelapses, it would be a much welcomed feature to have the possibility to charge with a Powerbank while the camera is shooting or recording.
> 
> Also, did anyone see any raw files yet?  I know Canon doesn't give out any specs regarding DR or ISO noise, except saying that it's "improved" which can mean a ton of things....



All pre-production units so no samples yet. One reviewer is saying 1-stop better for noise for stills.


BakaBokeh said:


> I cannot believe my eyes. That looks, dare I say, like class leading level In Body Image Stabilization. It's like a Panasonic or Olympus... but full frame.



M43 advantage is now only the lighter weight.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I'm sure the IS lenses do work in conjunction with the IBIS, but apparently the image circle is a bigger factor in determining how many stops of stabilization you get. This is why the 28-70, which has no lens IS, can still get the top end 8-stops.
> 
> I am hyped about the video IBIS. Was hoping they would be on Panasonic/Olympus levels and that is exactly what DPReview enlikened it to.



We'll know for sure soon enough, but I would imagine the 8 stops with the 28-70 is only at 70mm where the image circle is largest. At 50mm it probably equals the stops of the 50 f/1.2, and at 28 is probably even less. Still amazing of course, but not sure the number of stops of stabilization will be uniform across the zoom range of the RF zoom lenses.


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## Viggo (Jul 9, 2020)

Put the EVF in its 120 fps mode and it drains the battery in 220 images. I think that’s an epic fail. The batteries are hugely expensive here and they last less than 2 years before losing one of the capacity bars. And I would need 3 batteries for a day out shooting . All those epic specs and the batteries are the worst of any canon ever? Come on....


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## Whowe (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> The 800mm f/11 can work with the 2x extender.... umm ok


What's the effective aperture at that point? f/22!! And it is designed to focus with that. (You will just need slow shutter speeds. Good for Turtle races....


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Put the EVF in its 120 fps mode and it drains the battery in 220 images. I think that’s an epic fail. The batteries are hugely expensive here and they last less than 2 years before losing one of the capacity bars. And I would need 3 batteries for a day out shooting . All those epic specs and the batteries are the worst of any canon ever? Come on....



The batteries are improved from previous models. Mirrorless cameras all have pretty poor battery compared to anything with a OVF. The R6 has better battery life if you need it, or you can can get a grip and and four batteries to be sure and your old batteries will work too.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Whowe said:


> What's the effective aperture at that point? f/22!! And it is designed to focus with that. (You will just need slow shutter speeds. Good for Turtle races....



https://www.parkcameras.com/p/12421...anon-rf-800mm-f11-is-stm-super-telephoto-lens show off a few samples and their settings. So if we take the worst case they have 1/1000 ISO3200 f/11 then shove a 2x converter on it we can make it an f/22 so we need to reduce the shutter or bump up the ISO. Using my Z6 as it is my best sensor atm, we can go to ISO 10,000 no problem and ISO 20,000 with as much noise as my 5DII has as ISO 1600. A little Topaz Labs DeNoise later and it is a perfectly acceptable image. Would point out though that the 2x converter is almost as much as the lens and anyone buying one of these lenses as an entry-level to wildlife is unlikely going to spend as much money on a 2x converter as they did on a lens.


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## rbielefeld (Jul 9, 2020)

masterpix said:


> I have two problems with the R5:
> 1) I can't afford it at the moment
> 2) I wish that there was 5DmarkV simialr to it. I still like to see the actual light through the viewfinder.


Just FYI, you can set the EVF to show the ambient brightness and not your actual exposure adjusted brightness of the scene. At least all the mirroless cameras I have used allow this, so I am sure the R5 will have such a setting.


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## Whowe (Jul 9, 2020)

RobbieHat said:


> Interesting that the extenders only extend focal range from 300-500 mm on the 100-500mm lens. This is an interesting and potentially amazing advance. It will preserve the wide of 100 and 200 while extending the reach to 700-1000mm. I assume sacrifice in f stop throughout range but not sure about that as well. Would be amazing if it didn't impact f stop either until 300mm.


I don't think you can zoom lower than 300mm if you have an extender. My guess is the "extension tube" of the extender physically stops the lens from zooming all the way back in to 100 mm.


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## Whowe (Jul 9, 2020)

Besisika said:


> It is difficult to judge it given small size of JPG file. I would wait. What impresses me is the " 1120mm. 1/40th sec. ISO 1600. f/11 ". That shutter speed is insane for the focal length.
> The lenses may not be for nature photog, but for photojournalists it might be the right gear given the size, weight and IBIS.


How can it still be f/11 with the 1.4X?


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## Whowe (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> This really depends on your goal. I think most photos from the 800mm f/11 will end up on someones Facebook or passed around on a iPad. The person buying it isn't paying £40 per photo to print these images for a gallery or even for their house. Now that isn't to say put in the hands of a pro you won't be able to get pro results, the OOF area in the images certainly show you can get good separation in much the same way you can get bad separation on a f/4 lens if there is a lot of twigs behind your bird subject. But till now there was no FF 800mm lens under £10,000.


I am not as worried about separation and oof areas. If you can get some clear distance behind your subject, an 800 will create a lot of blur, even at f/11. to me the only issue is shutter speed and what iso I will have to shoot at. I do think you can still make it work in most situations, short of sunrise/ really early morning...


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## CaMeRa QuEsT (Jul 9, 2020)

MTF chart and optical formulae for each newly introduced lens from canon.jp:


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## CaMeRa QuEsT (Jul 9, 2020)

MTF chart and optical formulae for each newly introduced tele converter+lens from canon.jp:


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## Besisika (Jul 9, 2020)

Whowe said:


> How can it still be f/11 with the 1.4X?


I cannot say. Your guess is as good as mine.
It was shut with an eos-R, my guess is that the camera couldn't tell for sure given the new extender.


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 9, 2020)

Besisika said:


> I cannot say. Your guess is as good as mine.
> It was shut with an eos-R, my guess is that the camera couldn't tell for sure given the new extender.


It is not F11 it is F16 with the 1.4x


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## HarryFilm (Jul 9, 2020)

THE ONLY THING MISSING NOW is a Canon-made RF-mount L-series 135 mm to 650 mm f/5 to f/5.6 Sports Zoom Lens within extra anti-shake tech built-in!

If it's under $4200 you would see a LOT of buyers!

if a CONTEMPORARY version (i.e. cheaper!) of the same 135mm to 650mm zoom lens at f/5.6 to f/8 at $2000 then even SIGMA would take a MONSTER HIT to the financial gonads!

With THOSE TWO CANON ZOOM LENSES, Sony would TRULY BE Dead-in-the-Water for their A9 and A7 series cameras! They wouldn't be able to catch up!

---

AND THE REASON why I want the 135 to 650mm Sports Zoom lens is that I am USUALLY carrying 35mm, 50mm and 85 mm primes in my pack with the 35mm or 50mm lens usually on Camera #1 for my up-close wide(ish) goal line face shots and I would love to have that variable 135 to 650mm reach for the across-the-field celebration shots when I switch to Camera #2!

And I am specifying 135 to 650 mm because when using the Sigma 150 to 600mm sports zoom, I tend to WISH and NEED that extra 50mm of focal length reach to go across a typical soccer pitch or American Football field. For the much smaller hockey rink sizes, I tend to use a 300mm, 400mm prime OR an 800mm prime lens for the down-ice shots! Sigma coulda/shoulda ADDED an extra 50mm to their sports zoom lens! CANON CAN NOW FIX THAT by giving me an extra 50mm on the long side and extend it DOWN to 135mm for some on-field team celebration "portraiture-like" work using a single lens!

For my wildlife/outdoor shots, I can leave one camera home and just take the 50mm, 85mm primes and the 135 to 650mm sports zoom lenses!

V


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## CaMeRa QuEsT (Jul 9, 2020)

The 85's MTF map is very similar to the 35's, and seeing how small its pupil entrance is compared to other 85mm f/1.8 lenses, it's fair to expect heavy vignetting and lots of cat's eyes when shooting wide open. Thankfully, there are no aspherical elements in the formula, so no onion rings on bokeh balls. It looks tack sharp wide open, with very good contrast, and smooth enough focus transitions.

R6, f/2, 1/125 sec., ISO 100



R6, f/2, 1/8 sec, ISO 100


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## dwarven (Jul 10, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> The thing that shocked me most was that Canon guy saying that RF is the mount for the next 25 years. It pretty much sounded like the EF era is over, which would be really sad.



The EF era is definitely over, and it's not hard to see why. I'm sure many people were sad to see film go too, but that's mainly nostalgia talking. A camera is merely a tool, and people will buy the tool that gives them the best results. With mirrorless you can preview your image in the EVF as it will actually appear when you release the shutter. That is a massive advantage over DSLRs. Mirrorless can also have AF points all around the sensor, instead of having to clump them all in the middle.


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## Jethro (Jul 10, 2020)

Anyone prepared to interpret the MTF charts above for the dummies amongst us?


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## CaMeRa QuEsT (Jul 10, 2020)

The MTFs on the 600mm and 800mm DO lenses show lower levels of contrast and resolving power plus higher levels of astigmatism when compared to Nikon's much brighter and expensive but also shorter 300mm and 500mm PF lenses. The DO's constructions are also much simpler than the PF's. The 800 looks just like a 600 with an additional element slapped on front (it isn't: the DO doublet doesn't look exactly the same, but the rest of elements do look very similar). I am a bit disappointed by the DO's MTFs, but it was to be expected given their prices.

Samples for the 600mm (click on the samples to view full resolution files):





__





キヤノン：RF600mm F11 IS STM｜撮影サンプル


交換レンズ RF600mm F11 IS STM の撮影サンプルをご紹介しているページです。




cweb.canon.jp





and for the 800mm (I tried uploading all these full res samples here several times but kept receiving error messages):





__





キヤノン：RF800mm F11 IS STM｜撮影サンプル


交換レンズ RF800mm F11 IS STM の撮影サンプルをご紹介しているページです。




cweb.canon.jp


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## Jethro (Jul 10, 2020)

The 600mm and 800mm are still jaw-dropping to me, as someone who never expected to be able to afford a prime of that length. If real world experience gives decent results, I'll certainly be in for one of them (Q which).


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## CaMeRa QuEsT (Jul 10, 2020)

The 100-500mm's MTFs are comparable to the 70-200mm's when both are shot wide open; of course, the 100-500mm is darker, much more so at 500mm. Here are the full res samples:





__





キヤノン：RF100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM｜撮影サンプル


交換レンズ RF100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM の撮影サンプルをご紹介しているページです。




cweb.canon.jp


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## Act444 (Jul 10, 2020)

dwarven said:


> The EF era is definitely over, and it's not hard to see why. I'm sure many people were sad to see film go too, but that's mainly nostalgia talking. A camera is merely a tool, and people will buy the tool that gives them the best results. With mirrorless you can preview your image in the EVF as it will actually appear when you release the shutter. That is a massive advantage over DSLRs. Mirrorless can also have AF points all around the sensor, instead of having to clump them all in the middle.



I see the DSLR to mirrorless transition more like the transition from manual focus to auto focus lenses around the 1980s, which is, evolutionary. Both transitions incidentally required new lens systems to be developed.

The move from film to digital OTOH, IMO was _revolutionary_. Completely transformed the photography world! Instant feedback and gratification. No more darkrooms or chemicals. ISO now a third variable in exposure after being a fixed value for so long.

It's actually kind of remarkable that the EF system (Canon) and F-system (Nikon) survived such a move - and the stopgap that enabled this was the digital SLR, or DSLR, which is essentially an extension of the classic film SLR, but with a fixed digital sensor instead of advancing film strips. In fact, in a way, MILC represents a full completion of that transition - to all electronic components.


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## FrenchFry (Jul 10, 2020)

john1970 said:


> I saw these specs on the R5 frame rates. Can someone explain to me what Mode A, Mode B and Mode C are?
> 
> View attachment 191218


Where did these come from? What do the symbols stand for?

Edit: I found this information at the link below. Will be very interested to see what the modes are as well, and to see if the highest speeds have surprise restrictions. I hope not! https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/product-1/pdfs/EOSR5_specifications.pdf


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## David - Sydney (Jul 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> The painful price of ultra-high IQ TC performance I suppose, which better rival a lens without one.


Given the 50% price premium for the RF TCs vs EF, is there a patent or cut-through view of the TCs for comparison or a dedicated review of the TC quality (EF vs RF)?


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## David - Sydney (Jul 10, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I think it is more about there not being any compromise from the 100-400 II f/5.6. People want to feel the lens is a 1:1 upgrade.


It is hard to see that there is a massive IQ improvement for the RF 100-500mm vs EF100-400 II (plus perhaps 1.4TC). The price premium is substantial. Adding the EF TC gives slightly more reach with greater aperture. Weight is not an issue for me. I don't use those focal lengths sufficiently to warrant anywhere near that cost. I used EF TCs with my EF70-200mm to get more reach but that isn't an option for the RF 70-200mm. The cost of the new RF TC is roughly half the cost of a second hand EF100-400 mk2. A simple decision for me to cancel my pre-order.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Given the 50% price premium for the RF TCs vs EF, is there a patent or cut-through view of the TCs for comparison or a dedicated review of the TC quality (EF vs RF)?



I've not seen cutaways for comparison. The increase (hopefully) in IQ for the RF TCs will be due to advances in computer-aided lens design combined with the short RF flange distance. TC design for short-flange mirrorless is a Catch 22 of sorts, though – either you compromise the 100-500 when used bare to leave room for the TCs to be used in the full range (which puts you back to a design like the EF 100-400 II), you compromise the design of the TC to be flat with less than ideal IQ, or you limit the focal range of the lens. Canon must have decided the last option made the most sense.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> It is hard to see that there is a massive IQ improvement for the RF 100-500mm vs EF100-400 II (plus perhaps 1.4TC). The price premium is substantial. Adding the EF TC gives slightly more reach with greater aperture. Weight is not an issue for me. I don't use those focal lengths sufficiently to warrant anywhere near that cost. I used EF TCs with my EF70-200mm to get more reach but that isn't an option for the RF 70-200mm. The cost of the new RF TC is roughly half the cost of a second hand EF100-400 mk2. A simple decision for me to cancel my pre-order.



I think they were saying the expectation was to keep the 100-400 II IQ and aperture from 100-400 plus add 100mm to the end with equal IQ. Quite a tall order, and it sounds like they did it. Plus the RF will work with more stops of combined stabilization – Plus the 100-500 has DUAL AF motors and insane AF performance – Plus it's lighter (need it or not, you know that's nice!).


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## David - Sydney (Jul 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> I've not seen cutaways for comparison. The increase (hopefully) in IQ for the RF TCs will be due to advances in computer-aided lens design combined with the short RF flange distance. TC design for short-flange mirrorless is a Catch 22 of sorts, though – either you compromise the 100-500 when used bare to leave room for the TCs to be used in the full range (which puts you back to a design like the EF 100-400 II), you compromise the design of the TC to be flat with less than ideal IQ, or you limit the focal range of the lens. Canon must have decided the last option made the most sense.


It will be interesting to see the combination of RF TC + RF:EF adapter and EF100-400mm compared to RF100-500mm. Still a cheaper option!


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> It will be interesting to see the combination of RF TC + RF:EF adapter and EF100-400mm compared to RF100-500mm. Still a cheaper option!



I'll bet the IQ will be very close. And I think the differentiator outside of price will be the stops of combined IS+IBIS stabilization you get with the RF 100-500. That makes a difference for me (telephoto landscapes), but if you shoot BIF/wildlife-in-motion, then that's less important.

Edit to say: We still need confirmation that the sequence of RF TC to RF->EF adapter to 100-400 II will actually work.


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## shelms488 (Jul 10, 2020)

Thought there was supposed to be a new flash announced alongside the other announcements?


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## AccipiterQ (Jul 10, 2020)

Wait what were the two "secret" R5 features for photographers that hadn't leaked out yet??


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## AccipiterQ (Jul 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Clean ISO up to 12K. Canon: serving up crow for breakfast today.



Did they say that in the presentation??


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## AccipiterQ (Jul 10, 2020)

rbielefeld said:


> I my mind, we are in the transition, industry-wide, of moving to mirrorless. Really no other way to look at it. Just like we saw the paradigm shift from film to digital, we are now in the midst of the shift from DSLR to Mirrorless. DSLRs will persist for a long time as film cameras have, but the "norm" will be mirrorless as technology keeps on its inexorable march forward; like it or not.



For wildlife shooters they're going to need to offer a true APSC mirrorless then; even this r5 can't match pixel density of the 7Dii


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> Did they say that in the presentation??



They said something to that effect as they showed a picture of a bird in flight. Consensus I'm reading is more like 1-stop better than R/5D4. So maybe just serving partial crow, lol.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> For wildlife shooters they're going to need to offer a true APSC mirrorless then; even this r5 can't match pixel density of the 7Dii



R5 reportedly out-resolves the 5DsR even at 5-mp less resolution, so I think the APS-C crop from the R5 will work.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> Wait what were the two "secret" R5 features for photographers that hadn't leaked out yet??



I think it was the new uses for the dual pixel RAW – kind of a let down. Otherwise it was nothing, a false rumor.


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## nwardrip (Jul 10, 2020)

Regarding the RF 100mm -500mm lens, according to Gordon at CameraLabs, here is the breakdown of apertures across the zoom range. Not too disappointing:

f/4.5: 100mm - 151mm
f/5.0: 152mm - 254mm
f/5.6: 255mm - 363mm
f/6.3: 364mm - 472mm
f/7.1: 473mm - 500mm

It would sure be nice if they had a lockout at 473mm...I'd give up a tiny bit of range for not having to worry about losing 1/3 stop.


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## Viggo (Jul 10, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> The batteries are improved from previous models. Mirrorless cameras all have pretty poor battery compared to anything with a OVF. The R6 has better battery life if you need it, or you can can get a grip and and four batteries to be sure and your old batteries will work too.


Batteries may be improved, but the load is much heavier resulting in worse performance of the already poor capacity with the R. I can’t just buy a grip, first off those are incredibly expensive compared to older ones, and the reason I went away from the 1-series is size and weight. And downgrading to an R6 to get better battery? Crazy talk  

I had high hopes seeing what the 1dx3 did to improve its capacity by doubling it. I fully expected the R5 to have 500 shots with the “best” evf settings. It feels like a Tesla, it’s all the luxury and performance, bells and whistles, but you can’t go very far before you’ll sit and wait....


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## Pape (Jul 10, 2020)

R5 cant focus as dark what r6 and R6 doesnt got dual pixel raw ,sounds like they want sell us R1 
Now i wish they would waited untill they got new sensor.
New middle class camera isnt coming loong time


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## Sharlin (Jul 10, 2020)

Pape said:


> R5 cant focus as dark what r6



Come back when you actually find yourself in a situation where you need AF specifically at -6.5 EV rather than "only" -6 EV. I'm not going to hold my breath.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jul 10, 2020)

An EVF does not show me reality, but just a copy of reality. Bryan from "The Digital Picture" put it this way: "_The EVF properties just discussed can leave the photographer feeling somewhat disconnected from the moment, akin to watching a movie of an event vs. seeing it in-person as an OVF provides the sense of._ ". That are exactly my thoughts. Next year I will visit the Olympics again (if they take place and allow spectators), but if I had a camera with an EVF, it would feel like sitting at home and watching the competition on TV. It is just a digital copy of reality. If I had an EVF, I could also take a video of the event with my camera and another person at another time could watch that video on the EVF. Then he would see exactly what I saw when I was there. I do not want to travel 9,000 kilometers to see a digital copy of reality. 

Another problem I have with mirrorless cameras is that the sensor is always in use. While a DSLR only uses the sensor for a fraction of a second (unless I do a long exposure), the mirrorless camera might use the sensor for hours on some day. 99.9% of that usage time is just needed to compose the image. That seems quite a waste of "sensor time" for me and as well quite a waste of battery life. If I am on a journey, I walk through a city for many hours per day and my camera is always on. For my DSLR that is not a problem. I easily manage to take 2,000 photos with a single charge. I do not even own a second battery for my camera, as I never need 2,000 shots on a single day and a second battery would cost me $150 for my camera. If you buy an R5, you need a lot of spare batteries and some logistics to have them charged if you need them.

Some innovations of the past like autofocus brought big benefits without having any major downsides. With mirrorless cameras that is not the case. While I acknowledge the benefits of mirrorless cameras - like totally silent photos - seeing the subject with my own eyes instead of a digital copy of the subject is still a very basic requirement for me. My fear is that with a mirrorless camera I would lose the fun in photography. 

Another thing I hate about the R5 and R6 is how small and light they are. You have to attach a battery grip to make them look like serious cameras. A heavy camera stabilizes the photo with its own weight. If I am attacked in a dark park, I want to knock out the attacker with my camera and the camera should still work after that. In 2013 I had the choice between the 1D X and the 5D Mark III. Those cameras had more or less the same specs. The 1D X had a higher burst rate and the 5D Mark III a slightly higher resolution. I opted for the 1D X just for its larger size and higher weight, even though it was much more expensive than the 5D Mark III. At 780 grams the R5 is much too light. I hope a heavy R1 will change that problem. 

I do not understand why they gave the 45 megapixel R5 higher specs than the 20 megapixel R6. Canon says that the R5 is aimed at professionals and the R6 at amateurs. What is more "professional" about having more megapixels? The 1D series cameras always had quite a low megapixels count (except the discontnued 1Ds cameras). Canon simply can't cope with image noise very well and I don't think that has changed much with the R5 and R6. 45 megapixels are too many for a Canon camera, if Canon can't even handly the noise at 20 megapixels. That's why I would prefer a "professionel" lowe megapixel camera instead of an R6 that makes me appear like an amateur who just can't afford the R5.

I might only buy an R6 as a backup for difficult low light situations where I can't use a tripod. Eight stops of IBIS are very helpful there, but they should also be implemented in future DSLRs.

Why are mirrorless cameras called the "future"? Even my smartphone is mirrorless. Of course full frame mirrorless cameras are new, but they are just a larger version of an old idea,


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## Sharlin (Jul 10, 2020)

Gordon Laing reports the exact max aperture/focal length combinations of the new RF 100–400mm (when using 1/3 stop increments). I guess to some people this lens doesn't make any sense after all. What is interesting to me, however, is how it drops down to f/7.1 only at the very end of the zoom range, which definitely does go a long way to explain why Canon chose this particular design.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jul 10, 2020)

Does the widest aperture really jump while you zoom in or is it getting smaller continuously and those numbers are just rounded to the nearest f-stop? Would it make sense if the camera did not use the widest possible aperture between those stops and instead always close the blade to the next narrower aperture? Your graphic for example shows f/6.3 from 363 to 472mm, but if the lens can use f/6.3 at 472 mm, it should be able to use f/6.0 or so at 420mm. Would it still close the blades down to f/6.3 and therefore lose light?


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## Sharlin (Jul 10, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Does the widest aperture really jump while you zoom in or is it getting smaller continuously



It gets smaller continuously (technically, the image of the aperture necessarily gets _larger_ as you zoom in, but in a variable-aperture zoom it doesn't get larger fast enough to compensate for the increasing focal length). But as I mentioned in an earlier comment, the camera exposure system (whether auto or manual) discretizes the world into 1/3 (or 1/2) stop increments because the difference is too small to care about in photography (in the film world more fine-grained aperture control is sometimes useful though).


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 10, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Batteries may be improved, but the load is much heavier resulting in worse performance of the already poor capacity with the R. I can’t just buy a grip, first off those are incredibly expensive compared to older ones, and the reason I went away from the 1-series is size and weight. And downgrading to an R6 to get better battery? Crazy talk
> 
> I had high hopes seeing what the 1dx3 did to improve its capacity by doubling it. I fully expected the R5 to have 500 shots with the “best” evf settings. It feels like a Tesla, it’s all the luxury and performance, bells and whistles, but you can’t go very far before you’ll sit and wait....



Oh I am with you that I would have hoped for more battery life, however, they did work on improving the battery buy quite a bit and chose to keep the form factor rather than make a bigger battery for the R5/R6. I would grip it, all my prior cameras have been gripped otherwise it rests on my pinky and feels a bit weird. And stupid as is sounds, a gripped camera seems to make less people bug me when I am chasing street rabbits.

I'll also add the times given are all worse case. You won't always need the EVF at 120 fps and you can turn the back screen off completely. When I am out and about on my Nikon Z6 I turn it to EVF only and use the top screen to change settings, this results in a whole day shooting filling up my card with one battery that is quoted for 320 shots. And I set my EVF to not go off for 5 minutes.


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## jolyonralph (Jul 10, 2020)

s66 said:


> I need GPS in mine and a link that might work (or not) with a cell phone or some other kludge isn't going to get me to leave my 5D4s behind.



The GP-E2 will work with the EOS R5 allegedly - it certainly works fine with my EOS R. 

I think the biggest reason they haven't added GPS in body to mirrorless cameras is the battery drain. The GP-E2 uses its own (AA) batteries.


----------



## jolyonralph (Jul 10, 2020)

dwarven said:


> The EF era is definitely over, and it's not hard to see why. I'm sure many people were sad to see film go too, but that's mainly nostalgia talking. A camera is merely a tool, and people will buy the tool that gives them the best results. With mirrorless you can preview your image in the EVF as it will actually appear when you release the shutter. That is a massive advantage over DSLRs. Mirrorless can also have AF points all around the sensor, instead of having to clump them all in the middle.



Of course the EF era is over - you won't see any new EF lenses being launched - from now on everything will be RF and maybe EF-M if lucky.

This isn't as painful as the FD->EF transition when all your old lenses became obsolete overnight. At least now you can still use your legacy glass with the new system (and, amusingly, your old FD glass that you couldn't use on EF mount!)


----------



## scyrene (Jul 10, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Batteries may be improved, but the load is much heavier resulting in worse performance of the already poor capacity with the R. I can’t just buy a grip, first off those are incredibly expensive compared to older ones, and the reason I went away from the 1-series is size and weight. And downgrading to an R6 to get better battery? Crazy talk
> 
> I had high hopes seeing what the 1dx3 did to improve its capacity by doubling it. I fully expected the R5 to have 500 shots with the “best” evf settings. It feels like a Tesla, it’s all the luxury and performance, bells and whistles, but you can’t go very far before you’ll sit and wait....



Wow, you're a hard person to please!


----------



## scyrene (Jul 10, 2020)

nwardrip said:


> It would sure be nice if they had a lockout at 473mm...I'd give up a tiny bit of range for not having to worry about losing 1/3 stop.



Why would you worry about that?


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Jul 10, 2020)

The problem is also that there is an upper limit of how large camera batteries can be to still be allowed on a plane in some countries. That problem even restricted the battery size of the 1D series. 

I must admit that I was very surprised though that the R5 and R6 can still autofocus at f/22, which your get with the 800mm f/11 and a 2x teleconverter. Most DSLRs can't autofocus at more than f/5.6.

Another thing I really like about RF is that you can even use EF-S lenses and the camera will automatically crop. I wish they had that functionality at Canon full frame DSLRs.


----------



## Sharlin (Jul 10, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Another thing I really like about RF is that you can even use EF-S lenses and the camera will automatically crop. I wish they had that functionality at Canon full frame DSLRs.



They can't because the whole point of EF-S is the S meaning _short backfocus._ Which is to say, EF-S lenses are allowed to protrude more into the mirror box thanks to the smaller mirror of a crop body. Note that there are no third-party EF-S lenses, they're all EF even when meant for crop sensors, and as far as the camera is concerned, EF is EF.


----------



## londonxt (Jul 10, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Come back when you actually find yourself in a situation where you need AF specifically at -6.5 EV rather than "only" -6 EV. I'm not going to hold my breath.



He explained he was aspirational middle class, so its all about the respect from the neighbours


----------



## Act444 (Jul 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> R5 reportedly out-resolves the 5DsR even at 5-mp less resolution



How would this work with a LP filter?


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 10, 2020)

s66 said:


> I had a GP-E2 on a 5D3 - I never liked it. Sure it works, but separate battery you need to keep charged daily, with a separate charger you need to take on the trip, needing another outlet at the hotel,[..]



I solved that specific issue with a USB AA charger, it was €4 or so at the local Ikea. I can charge pretty much everything off a big powerbank or laptop overnight nowadays: watch, phone, camera, AA batteries.



s66 said:


> [..]
> The software to use the GP-E2 (on a mac at least) sucks (like all canon software), the file format it creates for tracks is a proprietary format needing conversion.[..]



The recent update gives you 2 options: NMEA 0183 and kmz. NMEA 0183 isn't proprietary, but the Canon implementation does report a fix, when it actually hasn't. GPSbabel has a gpgga=0 option to fix that. But you are correct that it needs converting, almost no photo tools accept NMEA, it's pretty much a GPX world out there.
The current UI is a lot less awful than it was in the Map Utility days, I only need to use it when I go out shooting with more than one camera. I really don't understand why Canon makes it so awkward to use, why can't it automatically import all logs when connecting?

Same goes for automatically setting the clock to match the computer, there's a setting in EOS utility do exactly that, but for some reason it never actually does. Same for the Canon Connect app on the phone, it keeps disabling the "Automatically sync time with phone" toggle. And you can only set time over wifi, not bluetooth. And no option to set the time from a timeserver on the internet either.
The "set time automatically from GP-E2" option does work, thankfully.

That time sync issue is what really bugs me, since the internal clocks on my RP and M6II go out of sync about 6 seconds each and every day, which makes syncing up the geotags a pain.

All in all, I personally find using the GP-E2 in the hot shoe less work than using a separate logger, but Canon could make about every step in the process a lot less painful just by changing the software a bit. And use higher quality RTCs in the cameras.

There, rant over


----------



## Viggo (Jul 10, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Wow, you're a hard person to please!


Am I , really? How much fun is a track day with a SP90, if the tank is 2 liters? I’ve owned the R since it was new and I get pretty much exactly the given battery capacity, so I expect no different here .


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 10, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Am I , really? How much fun is a track day with a SP90, if the tank is 2 liters? I’ve owned the R since it was new and I get pretty much exactly the given battery capacity, so I expect no different here .



For tethered shooting, the R5 and R6 are said to be able to use USB power while shooting, which should avoid draining the battery. For non-tethered shooting, a bandolier filled with LP-E6's would help 

I wonder how long a battery lasts when I go out chasing dragonflies with the EVF set to 120Hz. With burst shooting I'll get a lot more than the rated 200-ish shots, but will it last 3 hours or more like one hour? I get about 3 hours out of my puny RP battery, provided the lens doesn't have IS.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 10, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Am I , really? How much fun is a track day with a SP90, if the tank is 2 liters? I’ve owned the R since it was new and I get pretty much exactly the given battery capacity, so I expect no different here .



I don't understand your metaphor, is it a car thing? The way I look at it is, they massively increased the stuff the camera is doing, and the battery life is slightly better. That's hard to achieve! It's like people complain about their phones needing to be charged a lot, whilst forgetting that they're doing a hundred things that stalwart Nokia 20 years ago wasn't.

Battery life is definitely an advantage DSLRs continue to have over mirrorless, but we know that already. If I made the switch I'd either get a battery grip, and/or spare batteries. It's not insurmountable, it's not a Canon-specific problem, and they're doing their best from what I can tell.


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 10, 2020)

nwardrip said:


> Regarding the RF 100mm -500mm lens, according to Gordon at CameraLabs, here is the breakdown of apertures across the zoom range. Not too disappointing:
> 
> f/4.5: 100mm - 151mm
> f/5.0: 152mm - 254mm
> ...


These apertures are likely just the ones reported to metafile. Actual aperture would continuously vary with zoom setting. Reported value would be to nearest 1/3 stop When shooting wide open.


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 10, 2020)

scyrene said:


> I don't understand your metaphor, is it a car thing? The way I look at it is, they massively increased the stuff the camera is doing, and the battery life is slightly better. That's hard to achieve! It's like people complain about their phones needing to be charged a lot, whilst forgetting that they're doing a hundred things that stalwart Nokia 20 years ago wasn't.
> 
> Battery life is definitely an advantage DSLRs continue to have over mirrorless, but we know that already. If I made the switch I'd either get a battery grip, and/or spare batteries. It's not insurmountable, it's not a Canon-specific problem, and they're doing their best from what I can tell.


The battery bandolier would be my approach. Just keep an eye on the battery reserve meter and switch out when low. For me that is a better option than the bulk and weight of a battery grip. It’s what I do now with 5D3 albeit with less frequency.


----------



## Viggo (Jul 10, 2020)

scyrene said:


> I don't understand your metaphor, is it a car thing? The way I look at it is, they massively increased the stuff the camera is doing, and the battery life is slightly better. That's hard to achieve! It's like people complain about their phones needing to be charged a lot, whilst forgetting that they're doing a hundred things that stalwart Nokia 20 years ago wasn't.
> 
> Battery life is definitely an advantage DSLRs continue to have over mirrorless, but we know that already. If I made the switch I'd either get a battery grip, and/or spare batteries. It's not insurmountable, it's not a Canon-specific problem, and they're doing their best from what I can tell.


The battery is better? Rated at 350 with the R and 220 with the R5?

regarding phone battery, min lasts easily 15 hours and I do everything I want so that is nothing I complain about. And I use it a lot


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 10, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> An EVF does not show me reality, but just a copy of reality. Bryan from "The Digital Picture" put it this way: "_The EVF properties just discussed can leave the photographer feeling somewhat disconnected from the moment, akin to watching a movie of an event vs. seeing it in-person as an OVF provides the sense of._ ". That are exactly my thoughts. Next year I will visit the Olympics again (if they take place and allow spectators), but if I had a camera with an EVF, it would feel like sitting at home and watching the competition on TV. It is just a digital copy of reality. If I had an EVF, I could also take a video of the event with my camera and another person at another time could watch that video on the EVF. Then he would see exactly what I saw when I was there. I do not want to travel 9,000 kilometers to see a digital copy of reality.
> 
> Another problem I have with mirrorless cameras is that the sensor is always in use. While a DSLR only uses the sensor for a fraction of a second (unless I do a long exposure), the mirrorless camera might use the sensor for hours on some day. 99.9% of that usage time is just needed to compose the image. That seems quite a waste of "sensor time" for me and as well quite a waste of battery life. If I am on a journey, I walk through a city for many hours per day and my camera is always on. For my DSLR that is not a problem. I easily manage to take 2,000 photos with a single charge. I do not even own a second battery for my camera, as I never need 2,000 shots on a single day and a second battery would cost me $150 for my camera. If you buy an R5, you need a lot of spare batteries and some logistics to have them charged if you need them.
> 
> ...


I get it. Why use an air nailer when a hammer will work fine, needs no air, and lets you feel the nail.


----------



## AccipiterQ (Jul 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> R5 reportedly out-resolves the 5DsR even at 5-mp less resolution, so I think the APS-C crop from the R5 will work.





highdesertmesa said:


> R5 reportedly out-resolves the 5DsR even at 5-mp less resolution, so I think the APS-C crop from the R5 will work.



If I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't the crop mode on full-frame still result in the whole sensor being used, it just crops down after? Thus the density of pixels on target (bird, mammal, athlete, etc) is still reduced vs. a true APS-C?


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 10, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> If I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't the crop mode on full-frame still result in the whole sensor being used, it just crops down after? Thus the density of pixels on target (bird, mammal, athlete, etc) is still reduced vs. a true APS-C?



Depends on which APS-C camera you're comparing it with, if it's an 18MP APS-C camera, the difference is small, 17MP in crop mode vs 18MP. If it's a 24 or 32MP APS-C camera, then yes, a lot less pixels per duck for the R5.


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## Aaron D (Jul 10, 2020)

OK now that Canon is sitting on their hands, wondering what to do next:

RF 14--28mm f/4 (takes filters)
TS-R 24mm f/4 (ie 'small') with a tripod foot
TS-R 17mm with a tripod foot, and takes filters
or what the hell:
TS-R 24--50mm zoom

and:
RF 50mm f/1.4
RF 28mm f/2
RF 14mm f/2.8


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

Act444 said:


> How would this work with a LP filter?



Supposed to be new low pass design technology


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> If I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't the crop mode on full-frame still result in the whole sensor being used, it just crops down after? Thus the density of pixels on target (bird, mammal, athlete, etc) is still reduced vs. a true APS-C?



APS-C crop mode on full frame R is a hard crop to the RAW. This is different than the aspect ratio crops, which crop the JPEGs but the RAWs use the full sensor and add a marker to the file so Lightroom knows how to automatically apply a crop upon import.

My point was since the R5 is reportedly outresolving the 5DsR, it should make for good reach with cropping — since 5DsR users have done this successfully versus using the 7D series. The difference with using the R5 instead of the 5DsR will be fewer compromises in AF, FPS, buffer performance, etc. If the 5DsR resolution when cropped wasn’t good enough for you, then I guess stay with 7D or wait for the mirrorless version.


----------



## jolyonralph (Jul 10, 2020)

s66 said:


> I had a GP-E2 on a 5D3 - I never liked it. Sure it works, but separate battery you need to keep charged daily, with a separate charger you need to take on the trip, needing another outlet at the hotel, a separate on/off switch you can forget to turn on, bulky: you bump it into a lot of things and it's sitting in the way of any flash you might want to use.
> The software to use the GP-E2 (on a mac at least) sucks (like all canon software), the file format it creates for tracks is a proprietary format needing conversion.
> I was really glad to get rid of it. Going back to it: not going to happen.



Well, I take an 8-pack of AA batteries with me and that usually lasts a trip without issues. I do agree the separate on-off switch is a pain. But it does work. I haven't even installed the Mac software as the geotagging goes straight into Lightroom without issue. 

I've also used the bluetooth pairing with the R for GPS, and I've found that generally stable too, albeit with the usual issue that it doesn't always connect automatically when the camera is turned on - so I tend to switch lenses while the camera is still on, which I know many people don't like doing.


----------



## Pape (Jul 10, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Come back when you actually find yourself in a situation where you need AF specifically at -6.5 EV rather than "only" -6 EV. I'm not going to hold my breath.


Yeah i guess i just panicked  half stop doesnt really matter
I think ill skip new cameras anyway ,needing lenses more atm


----------



## MadisonMike (Jul 10, 2020)

john1970 said:


> I saw these specs on the R5 frame rates. Can someone explain to me what Mode A, Mode B and Mode C are?
> 
> View attachment 191218


This looks odd. If this chart is correct then you only get 20fps when in E shutter. It cannot be correct. You should be able to have a slower option.


----------



## MadisonMike (Jul 10, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Put the EVF in its 120 fps mode and it drains the battery in 220 images. I think that’s an epic fail. The batteries are hugely expensive here and they last less than 2 years before losing one of the capacity bars. And I would need 3 batteries for a day out shooting . All those epic specs and the batteries are the worst of any canon ever? Come on....


We need to see the production models, there is no way they would release something like that. At least I hope not.


----------



## Viggo (Jul 10, 2020)

MadisonMike said:


> We need to see the production models, there is no way they would release something like that. At least I hope not.


It’s quoted “up to” 320 with the EVF, but that is in 60 fps mode, in 120 fps it’s 220. No two ways about it. CIPA rated.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 10, 2020)

Aaron D said:


> OK now that Canon is sitting on their hands, wondering what to do next:
> 
> RF 14--28mm f/4 (takes filters)
> TS-R 24mm f/4 (ie 'small') with a tripod foot
> ...



Clearly it is time for the RF 500mm DO f/4.0 L, RF 500mm DO f/5.6 L, RF 600mm DO f/4.0 L, and RF 600mm DO f/5.6 L

Bring on the short fat primes!


----------



## jolyonralph (Jul 10, 2020)

[QUOTE="Codebunny, post: 842781, memb
and:
RF 50mm f/1.4
[/QUOTE]

I'd be happy with a $500 RF 50mm f/1.8 if it renders as nicely as the FE 55mm 1.8 Sony/Zeiss lens.


----------



## dwarven (Jul 10, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> Of course the EF era is over - you won't see any new EF lenses being launched - from now on everything will be RF and maybe EF-M if lucky.
> 
> This isn't as painful as the FD->EF transition when all your old lenses became obsolete overnight. At least now you can still use your legacy glass with the new system (and, amusingly, your old FD glass that you couldn't use on EF mount!)



Next time do me a favor and actually read the post :/


----------



## MadisonMike (Jul 10, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> An EVF does not show me reality, but just a copy of reality. Bryan from "The Digital Picture" put it this way: "_The EVF properties just discussed can leave the photographer feeling somewhat disconnected from the moment, akin to watching a movie of an event vs. seeing it in-person as an OVF provides the sense of._ ". That are exactly my thoughts. Next year I will visit the Olympics again (if they take place and allow spectators), but if I had a camera with an EVF, it would feel like sitting at home and watching the competition on TV. It is just a digital copy of reality. If I had an EVF, I could also take a video of the event with my camera and another person at another time could watch that video on the EVF. Then he would see exactly what I saw when I was there. I do not want to travel 9,000 kilometers to see a digital copy of reality.
> 
> Another problem I have with mirrorless cameras is that the sensor is always in use. While a DSLR only uses the sensor for a fraction of a second (unless I do a long exposure), the mirrorless camera might use the sensor for hours on some day. 99.9% of that usage time is just needed to compose the image. That seems quite a waste of "sensor time" for me and as well quite a waste of battery life. If I am on a journey, I walk through a city for many hours per day and my camera is always on. For my DSLR that is not a problem. I easily manage to take 2,000 photos with a single charge. I do not even own a second battery for my camera, as I never need 2,000 shots on a single day and a second battery would cost me $150 for my camera. If you buy an R5, you need a lot of spare batteries and some logistics to have them charged if you need them.
> 
> ...



This deserves a proper reply, but it may be longer than your statement here. Obviously mirrorless cameras are not for you. I would counter nearly every statement here, but I will not change your opinion. Just enjoy shooting. That is what really matters. For me, I love the direction that Canon is going with these new cameras. This is really the only second step for them and it will keep getting better from here. Better battery life would be great, no argument there. But the numbers posted can be deceiving. I have a Sony (heaven forbid) A7III and battery life is awesome, dare I say, even better than my Canon DSLR. The battery in the Sony is rated at 600-700 shots, but I can get over 1000 shots on a shoot doing nothing special. I think I ran down a battery only one time, and popped in a spare. Now if Canon can only do half that, there is a lot of room for improvement. The Canon EVF is higher res and faster refresh, both power drains, that I understand. These are not insurmountable issues, as in the not new tech of phones that last all day exists.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 10, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> [QUOTE="Codebunny, post: 842781, memb
> and:
> RF 50mm f/1.4



I'd be happy with a $500 RF 50mm f/1.8 if it renders as nicely as the FE 55mm 1.8 Sony/Zeiss lens.
[/QUOTE]

I got the Nikon 50mm f/1.8 S and the Z6 for less than the cost for a RF 50mm f/1.2. It is one of the best lenses I have used and seems to be one of the best 50mm lenses. As it stands I am just going to buy lenses for both Nikon and Canon and just use whatever one I need for the occasion. My mind separation is Nikon <200mm and Canon for wildlife so anything over 200mm.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 10, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Clearly it is time for the RF 500mm DO f/4.0 L, RF 500mm DO f/5.6 L, RF 600mm DO f/4.0 L, and RF 600mm DO f/5.6 L
> 
> Bring on the short fat primes!


I vote for all of these!
Canon is likely hard at work on many new projects already, I hope they include some fast telephoto options!


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 10, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> I vote for all of these!
> Canon is likely hard at work on many new projects already, I hope they include some fast telephoto options!



They just need to be first to past the post with a 500mm f/5.6 RF prime and I'll buy It.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 10, 2020)

. . . Are we seriously doing our next RF lens requests already???? 

Just kidding. Mine are:

35/1.2 L ------ I don't want to jinx it, but this has to be coming soon.
14-28/2.0 L -------- let the rumors be true!
200/2.8 L ------- this lens _has_ to be weather sealed, so I could use it for outdoor theatre and events. With excellent clarity and sharpness, and a price ~$1,500 or less, I could see myself using this instead of any 70-200. Plus, on a 45mp sensor, I could crop in easily for times when 200mm isn't enough reach.


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Jul 10, 2020)

I just checked the price of the extenders and was quite shocked. 583 Euros for the 1.4x extender and 730 Euros for the 2x extender. The EF extender were only around 400 Euros each.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 10, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I just checked the price of the extenders and was quite shocked. 583 Euros for the 1.4x extender and 730 Euros for the 2x extender. The EF extender were only around 400 Euros each.



There was a wee bit of sticker shock there for sure. But lets see how they perform before passing judgment on their value.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 11, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I just checked the price of the extenders and was quite shocked. 583 Euros for the 1.4x extender and 730 Euros for the 2x extender. The EF extender were only around 400 Euros each.



I'm a bit ignorant on euro taxes but doesn't that price include the cost of 'free' Healthcare and all the other government provided 'free' benefits?


----------



## Pape (Jul 11, 2020)

No idea that free health care havent called me to healthy check last 20 year 
just joking its good to have 
I guess sony can make better processors so their camera uses less electric . But its very good if canon got all other problems solved except power consumption .


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 11, 2020)

Pape said:


> No idea that free health care havent called me to healthy check last 20 year
> just joking its good to have
> I guess sony can make better processors so their camera uses less electric . But its very good if canon got all other problems solved except power consumption .



That is a little misguided to say the Sony processors are better. By all accounts the Digic X is about as good as it gets out here and it gave the new 1DIII better battery life than the mark II.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 11, 2020)

What was the CIPA rated battery life for the EOS R? How does it compare to the rating for the R5??


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 11, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> What was the CIPA rated battery life for the EOS R? How does it compare to the rating for the R5??


R: 370 shots (LCD), 350 shots (VF) (1,865 mAh)
R5: "around 320 with the EVF"


----------



## Joules (Jul 11, 2020)

Viggo said:


> It’s quoted “up to” 320 with the EVF, but that is in 60 fps mode, in 120 fps it’s 220. No two ways about it. CIPA rated.


Is rating the number CIPA with IBIS engaged? I can't think how else the number of shots would decrease between models despite the efficiency gains.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 11, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Does it includes a GPS unit? Haven't seen any mention about GPS. Thanks, Stefano


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Ah the f/11 lenses don't stop down, they must be really simple designs. So no aperture blades in them?


Are you serious? Do not stop down... like in pinhole cameras?


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Put the EVF in its 120 fps mode and it drains the battery in 220 images. I think that’s an epic fail. The batteries are hugely expensive here and they last less than 2 years before losing one of the capacity bars. And I would need 3 batteries for a day out shooting . All those epic specs and the batteries are the worst of any canon ever? Come on....


I take up to 2000 of frames when I shoot theatrical. thats what 9 -10 battery changes during the performance? I cannot afford that due to risk of missing out on a shot. I need a 1000 at least on a single charge. Was hoping that a battery grip will take the maximum number of shots on a single set of batteries to 1000. 400 is not an option. *I hope that someone will come up with a 4-battery grip option for R5 soon. *


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

nwardrip said:


> Regarding the RF 100mm -500mm lens, according to Gordon at CameraLabs, here is the breakdown of apertures across the zoom range. Not too disappointing:
> 
> f/4.5: 100mm - 151mm
> f/5.0: 152mm - 254mm
> ...


So it isn’t at F5.6 at 400mm. I am quite confident that one of Canon EoL mentioned in Canon product presentation video the the lens is at F5.6 at 400mm. It is a product misrepresentation of it true. Sigma 100-400c and Tamron 100-400 are also at F5.6 at around 365mm but at F6.3 at 400. Well, it is not a clear cut after all.


----------



## Joules (Jul 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> I take up to 2000 of frames when I shoot theatrical. thats what 9 -10 battery changes during the performance? I cannot afford that due to risk of missing out on a shot. I need a 1000 at least on a single charge. Was hoping that a battery grip will take the maximum number of shots on a single set of batteries to 1000. 400 is not an option. *I hope that someone will come up with a 4-battery grip option for R5 soon. *


After having a look at how CIPA testing supposedly works, I wonder why we even bother to mention those numbers:

" The Camera and Imaging Products Association (CIPA) set up in Japan in 2002 succeeded in developing a standardized battery-life test for digital cameras. Under the test scheme, the camera takes a photo every 30 seconds, half of them with flash and the other without. The test zooms the lens in and out all the way before a shot is taken and leaves the screen on. After every 10 shots, the camera is turned off for a while and the cycle is repeated. CIPA ratings replicate a realistic way a consumer would use a camera and most new cameras adopt the CIPA protocol to rate the runtime. " - Source

So a CIPA rating of ~ 300 shots actually means the camera is able to keep the screen / EVF and IBIS going for 300 * 30 = 9000 seconds, or 2.5 hours. Of course, the act of really taking a shot will also play a role in power consumption, but I believe the actual power to keep the screen output and stabilization circuit going continously is a far greater factor. Just compare shot numbers for DSLR when in OVF vs Live View. Despite needing to move less parts (no mirror), LiveView numbers are always far lower. So the Display is the cluprit, and in these new bodies, IBIS likely takes a similar toll, which would explain how the numbers can look worse than the R ones despite more efficient processing and increased battery capacity.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

Joules said:


> After having a look at how CIPA testing supposedly works, I wonder why we even bother to mention those numbers:
> 
> " The Camera and Imaging Products Association (CIPA) set up in Japan in 2002 succeeded in developing a standardized battery-life test for digital cameras. Under the test scheme, the camera takes a photo every 30 seconds, half of them with flash and the other without. The test zooms the lens in and out all the way before a shot is taken and leaves the screen on. After every 10 shots, the camera is turned off for a while and the cycle is repeated. CIPA ratings replicate a realistic way a consumer would use a camera and most new cameras adopt the CIPA protocol to rate the runtime. " - Source
> 
> So a CIPA rating of ~ 300 shots actually means the camera is able to keep the screen / EVF and IBIS going for 300 * 30 = 9000 seconds, or 2.5 hours. Of course, the act of really taking a shot will also play a role in power consumption, but I believe the actual power to keep the screen output and stabilization circuit going continously is a far greater factor. Just compare shot numbers for DSLR when in OVF vs Live View. Despite needing to move less parts (no mirror), LiveView numbers are always far lower. So the Display is the cluprit, and in these new bodies, IBIS likely takes a similar toll, which would explain how the numbers can look worse than the R ones despite more efficient processing and increased battery capacity.


Ok thanks for this information. So considering I am shooting in continues AF mode, Taking photos in a short series of 2-3 at a time , zone AF, TV not using rear screen, using EVF only in 120Hz mode, over approximately 1hour periods between breaks. ..what is you take on the number of shots (R5) I may expect out of a set of batteries in a grip?


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## koenkooi (Jul 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> I take up to 2000 of frames when I shoot theatrical. thats what 9 -10 battery changes during the performance? I cannot afford that due to risk of missing out on a shot. I need a 1000 at least on a single charge. Was hoping that a battery grip will take the maximum number of shots on a single set of batteries to 1000. 400 is not an option. *I hope that someone will come up with a 4-battery grip option for R5 soon. *



Canon states that the R5 and R6 allow powering over USB-PD, so you can plug in a huge powerbank and it will use that and not really drain the battery in the camera.

That's how I parsed the claims, I would be very happy if that turns out to be the case.


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## Viggo (Jul 11, 2020)

Joules said:


> After having a look at how CIPA testing supposedly works, I wonder why we even bother to mention those numbers:
> 
> " The Camera and Imaging Products Association (CIPA) set up in Japan in 2002 succeeded in developing a standardized battery-life test for digital cameras. Under the test scheme, the camera takes a photo every 30 seconds, half of them with flash and the other without. The test zooms the lens in and out all the way before a shot is taken and leaves the screen on. After every 10 shots, the camera is turned off for a while and the cycle is repeated. CIPA ratings replicate a realistic way a consumer would use a camera and most new cameras adopt the CIPA protocol to rate the runtime. " - Source
> 
> So a CIPA rating of ~ 300 shots actually means the camera is able to keep the screen / EVF and IBIS going for 300 * 30 = 9000 seconds, or 2.5 hours. Of course, the act of really taking a shot will also play a role in power consumption, but I believe the actual power to keep the screen output and stabilization circuit going continously is a far greater factor. Just compare shot numbers for DSLR when in OVF vs Live View. Despite needing to move less parts (no mirror), LiveView numbers are always far lower. So the Display is the cluprit, and in these new bodies, IBIS likely takes a similar toll, which would explain how the numbers can look worse than the R ones despite more efficient processing and increased battery capacity.


All fine and dandy, but the R is rated to 350’ish images, CIPA. And this exactly what I get. I don’t get three or four times that at all.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 11, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> R: 370 shots (LCD), 350 shots (VF) (1,865 mAh)
> R5: "around 320 with the EVF"


Thanks very much for the info. I was curious because with my EOS R I was able to take 2200 photos and it only used half of the battery charge in the battery grip.

The difference in CIPA numbers between the R and R5 aren't as bad as I thought. Chances are I'll still easily get over 1000 shots with a battery grip on the R5.. right?


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 11, 2020)

Viggo said:


> All fine and dandy, but the R is rated to 350’ish images, CIPA. And this exactly what I get. I don’t get three or four times that at all.


What's your use case? I tend to get a great deal more than 350 with the R


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## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Canon states that the R5 and R6 allow powering over USB-PD, so you can plug in a huge powerbank and it will use that and not really drain the battery in the camera.
> 
> That's how I parsed the claims, I would be very happy if that turns out to be the case.


Yeah. Gotcha. I shoot with a pair of 5D4s. So.. it would require a suit case sized power bank in a backpack on my back? And me running and gunning ... I can clearly see that


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## koenkooi (Jul 11, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> Thanks very much for the info. I was curious because with my EOS R I was able to take 2200 photos and it only used half of the battery charge in the battery grip.
> 
> The difference in CIPA numbers between the R and R5 aren't as bad as I thought. Chances are I'll still easily get over 1000 shots with a battery grip on the R5.. right?



(320/370) * 2200 is about 1900, so 1000 should be a safe bet.


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## Viggo (Jul 11, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> What's your use case? I tend to get a great deal more than 350 with the R


I shoot a few images here and there over a longer period of time. I know that if I used the battery from 100% to 0% in a day I would get more, but that’s not how everyone uses there camera, hence the CIPA standard.


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## koenkooi (Jul 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Yeah. Gotcha. I shoot with a pair of 5D4s. So.. it would require a suit case sized power bank in a backpack on my back? And me running and gunning ... I can clearly see that



Get a looooooooooong cable and use one of these:


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 11, 2020)

Viggo said:


> I shoot a few images here and there over a longer period of time. I know that if I used the battery from 100% to 0% in a day I would get more, but that’s not how everyone uses there camera, hence the CIPA standard.


I see.. I find leaving the battery in the R over a few days that it will drain by itself, just from being in the camera. But yes my use case was quite different.. shooting a number of images in quick succession.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 11, 2020)

The CIPA is a little confusing to me. I gather on my mirrorless I should only get about 340 shots but then I held the button down and filled up the memory card and the battery didn't move for all 1000 or so shots. Does it mean 340 bursts at a subject with a bit of chimping on the LCD to check each shot?


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## Joules (Jul 11, 2020)

Viggo said:


> All fine and dandy, but the R is rated to 350’ish images, CIPA. And this exactly what I get. I don’t get three or four times that at all.


I was just pointing out that quoting a number of shots is a problematic number if the actual power draw is caused more by the time the camera is active rather than the act of really taking a picture.

The very post after your's posts drastically different shot numbers. Which illustrates well that use case is very relevant for the number of shots that can be expected. I think without knowing more about the way AF and IBIS are active during use, even you can't know for sure that you'll see a decrease in shots just based on the CIPA numbers.


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## Joules (Jul 11, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> The CIPA is a little confusing to me. I gather on my mirrorless I should only get about 340 shots but then I held the button down and filled up the memory card and the battery didn't move for all 1000 or so shots. Does it mean 340 bursts at a subject with a bit of chimping on the LCD to check each shot?


I did just describe what CIPA numbers mean as far as I could find in another post. See this:






Canon officially announces the EOS R5 and EOS R6 along with 4 new lenses and two teleconverters


. . . Are we seriously doing our next RF lens requests already???? :eek: Just kidding. Mine are: 35/1.2 L ------ I don't want to jinx it, but this has to be coming soon. 14-28/2.0 L -------- let the rumors be true! 200/2.8 L ------- this lens has to be weather sealed, so I could use it for...




www.canonrumors.com





TLDR: Don't take the number of shots literally. For mirrorless cameras, it should really be a time that given, not a number as far as I can tell.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 11, 2020)

Joules said:


> I did just describe what CIPA numbers mean as far as I could find in another post. See this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah that rating would always let a DSLR win and doesn't reflect how a camera is used.. well not how I use my camera. I spend most of my time finding a bird, fox, bunny. Not taking a snap every few seconds. Thank you for pointing me back to that.


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## digigal (Jul 11, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> What's your use case? I tend to get a great deal more than 350 with the R


I took my R to Bosque for wildlife last year and got 1700 shots using it with my 100-400 +1.4x
Catherine


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## Pixel (Jul 11, 2020)

Just saw the cameras, I’m beyond excited about the R5. The R6 however feels much like the R. The new battery grips make them feel like REAL cameras with great ergonomics like we typically expect from Canon.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jul 12, 2020)

Yesterday a German online store accidentally offered a kit with the R5 and the 28-70 f72 for 2865 Euros, which should only be the price for the lens alone. So basically a free R5. I did not order it though and instead contacted the store about the pricing mistake.


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## DootsHK (Jul 12, 2020)

I saw a few questions about the GPS on the R5/R6, here is what i found on a PDF on Canon's Website:



> With Wi-Fi and Bluetooth Low Energy technology, photographers may pair their cameras with a smart device using the Canon Camera Connect app to perform GPS geotagging of photos and remote shooting



PDF file here.

Unfortunately, there is no built-in GPS, it would have been much more convenient. I like built-in GPS to tag landscape and search pictures later on.


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## Viggo (Jul 12, 2020)

Joules said:


> I was just pointing out that quoting a number of shots is a problematic number if the actual power draw is caused more by the time the camera is active rather than the act of really taking a picture.
> 
> The very post after your's posts drastically different shot numbers. Which illustrates well that use case is very relevant for the number of shots that can be expected. I think without knowing more about the way AF and IBIS are active during use, even you can't know for sure that you'll see a decrease in shots just based on the CIPA numbers.


Agreed, I’ll take that.

I seriously hope they have added the “IS mode 3” to IBIS also, that it only is active during exposure. I remember using my 85 L IS and the IS couldn’t be turned off and was active even when accessing menus. The only option was to switch it on and off on the actual lens. That sure didn’t help battery life, lol.


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## koenkooi (Jul 12, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Agreed, I’ll take that.
> 
> I seriously hope they have added the “IS mode 3” to IBIS also, that it only is active during exposure. I remember using my 85 L IS and the IS couldn’t be turned off and was active even when accessing menus. The only option was to switch it on and off on the actual lens. That sure didn’t help battery life, lol.


Check the IBIS thread in this section, IBIS is controlled by the IS switch on the lens, you’ll only get an on/off menu entry for non-IS lenses.


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## Deleted member 68328 (Jul 12, 2020)

Does the R5 have C1, C2, C3 modes?


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## miketcool (Jul 12, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I see.. I find leaving the battery in the R over a few days that it will drain by itself, just from being in the camera.



Either you have a non-Canon battery, a faulty battery, or a camera problem. There should be no noticeable draining when the camera is off. Do you have wireless communication on, like WiFi?


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 12, 2020)

yoms said:


> Does the R5 have C1, C2, C3 modes?


Yes


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## dcm (Jul 12, 2020)

nwardrip said:


> Regarding the RF 100mm -500mm lens, according to Gordon at CameraLabs, here is the breakdown of apertures across the zoom range. Not too disappointing:
> 
> f/4.5: 100mm - 151mm
> f/5.0: 152mm - 254mm
> ...



I guess it all depends on why you want to limit yourself to f/5.6.

You can just monitor the f stop through the viewfinder as you zoom. When you go above your max preferred f stop you can just back it off a little bit. This approach works for any chosen f stop you don’t want to exceed on any lens, mirrorless or not. This can be done easily by setting the f stop to f/5.6 before you zoom, and back off when it changes to f6.3. You could apply this method to the EF 100-400L II if you didn’t want to go above f/5.0. You are unlikely to notice the 1/3 stop change in most cases as others have noted. This has been my experience with the M series 55-200, 18-150, and 15-45 that all go to 6.3 at the long end.

Changing the exposure level increments to 1/2 stops to prolong the f/5.6 range as has been suggested. It just takes a bit longer to switch since the next increment is 6.7 instead of 6.3. On the EF-M 55-200 this extends the 5.6 range from about 150mm to 190mm. But the EV level metered is still the same so it decreases the shutter speed as you zoom or you’d be underexposing by a little bit in the extended range. In Av mode the shutter speed now changes at 150 to account for the EV change. So, have you gained anything? You really aren’t letting any more light in by prolonging f/5.6, that’s just physics.

The same thing happens on the 100-400L II. At 1/3 stops, the f stops are f/4.5 from 100-135, f/5.0 from 135-300, and f/5.6 from 300-400. Switching to 1/2 stops gives me f4.5 from 100-300 and f5.6 from 300-400. Extending the f/4.5 range may be tempting, but you just get a wider range of shutter speeds and ISO in this mode because it hasn’t changed the amount of light hitting the sensor. It only affects the settings the camera can choose to properly expose it.


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## dcm (Jul 12, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Are you serious? Do not stop down... like in pinhole cameras?



Actually, a lot like fixed aperture spotting scopes and telescopes, but with auto focus and image stabilization. Now you don’t have to mess with a mount adapter to attach a scope to your camera.


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## koenkooi (Jul 12, 2020)

dcm said:


> [..]Changing the exposure level increments to 1/2 stops to prolong the f/5.6 range as has been suggested. It just takes a bit longer to switch since the next increment is 6.7 instead of 6.3.[..]



I don't think switching to 1/2 stops actually changes the physical aperture size at 400mm, it only changes the number you see on screen and in the EXIF.

Placebo effect is a thing, so it might actually work for some people


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 12, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I don't think switching to 1/2 stops actually changes the physical aperture size at 400mm, it only changes the number you see on screen and in the EXIF.
> 
> Placebo effect is a thing, so it might actually work for some people


Placebo effect. Like Sony IBIS for example.


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## Pixel (Jul 13, 2020)

yoms said:


> Does the R5 have C1, C2, C3 modes?


Yes


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## Eclipsed (Jul 13, 2020)

nwardrip said:


> Regarding the RF 100mm -500mm lens, according to Gordon at CameraLabs, here is the breakdown of apertures across the zoom range. Not too disappointing:
> 
> f/4.5: 100mm - 151mm
> f/5.0: 152mm - 254mm
> ...


These are presumably the displayed apertures and not actual apertures, which undoubtedly change as a continuous function of focal length.


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## jolyonralph (Jul 13, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Does it includes a GPS unit? Haven't seen any mention about GPS. Thanks, Stefano



No GPS.

Canon haven't added GPS into any mirrorless camera so far - presumably due to battery usage concerns.


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## jolyonralph (Jul 13, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Canon states that the R5 and R6 allow powering over USB-PD, so you can plug in a huge powerbank and it will use that and not really drain the battery in the camera.



Where did you see this? I can't see anything in any of the official specs that say anything about this - only that you can charge the battery with a USB PD charger as before on the EOS R.

One word of caution, the new LP-E6NH batteries do work in the current EOS R but cannot be charged in-camera. Only the LP-E6N batteries can be charged inside the EOS R!


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## koenkooi (Jul 13, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> Where did you see this? I can't see anything in any of the official specs that say anything about this - only that you can charge the battery with a USB PD charger as before on the EOS R.



I've only heard it being said during the presentations, "Charging and powering". Let's hope the manuals get published this week!



jolyonralph said:


> One word of caution, the new LP-E6NH batteries do work in the current EOS R but cannot be charged in-camera. Only the LP-E6N batteries can be charged inside the EOS R!


So glad my RP used LP-E17s which I can share with my M6II


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## SteveC (Jul 13, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> So glad my RP used LP-E17s which I can share with my M6II



I don't have an RP but that's one aspect of it that tempts me a lot--I have two other cameras that both use that battery. So if I bought one as a backup, I don't even need to _think_ about buying spare batteries for it.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 14, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Are you serious? Do not stop down... like in pinhole cameras?



Yes those f11 lenses are fixed-aperture lenses.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 14, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Does it includes a GPS unit? Haven't seen any mention about GPS. Thanks, Stefano



There's no internal GPS, confirmed by Canon. But from what I gathered, you can get it from your phone via Bluetooth.


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## DJL329 (Jul 17, 2020)

Does the R5 have Exposure Compensation in Manual mode, like the 5D IV?


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## lnz (Jul 24, 2020)

Is it possible to use the Tamron 150-600 G2 with those converters on the r5?


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