# Interesting what's happened since I got an RP.....



## JPAZ (May 13, 2019)

When I 1st got this camera, I thought it would be a "back up" body or my quick "grab and go" camera. I do still love my 5Div, but wonder what will happen.

I find myself passing the DSLR and reaching for the RP instead more and more. Having taken the new camera on a trip to NYC and having used the new camera when taking shots of my grandkids, I've grown to really like using this. With back button focus, the ability to quickly move focus points using my thumb on the touchscreen, and a pretty reasonable sensor, what's not to like? When I've had images with poor focus, it's been my fault. When I've had images where I have been lured into using too slow of a shutter speed (the IS in the RF 24-105 is awfully good) causing motion blur, it's been my fault. The histogram in my viewfinder is reassuring.

Yeah, I know the FPS is less than ideal for some applications and I know that I feel much more secure with dual card slots. But I've grown to like this camera a lot more than I ever thought I would. I'm not ready to sell the 5Div but can really see me moving to a 100% mirrorless kit in the future.

I am leaving on a trekking trip next month. Ordinarily, I'd bring a lens triad and my 5Div to give me the most options and best battery life. But you know, when I lift up each camera and compare the weight, I might just bring the RP with 4 or 5 batteries. Anybody out there having similar thoughts?


----------



## old-pr-pix (May 14, 2019)

I went to the dark side several years ago when I bought into the m43 system. The smaller sensor is more than good enough for almost everything I shoot and the lighter lenses are a real bonus. The m43 stuff gets most of my work now days. Yet, I kept my Canon gear - partly because I like the native 3:2 aspect ratio a lot better for wide angle stuff. While the RP isn't the same weight savings as m43 gear, the new bodies and certain lenses (i.e. 70-200) look to be enough smaller than the EF versions to get my attention. It's about time for me to update my older generation Canon lenses anyway.


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 14, 2019)

JPAZ said:


> Anybody out there having similar thoughts?


Not me...the 1D X remains my go-to camera for most uses. The R will definitely be for travel. For an upcoming hike to a mountain top (well, a mountain for New England – in my native California we’d call it a foothill), I’ll probably take the M6.


----------



## jnagooyen (May 14, 2019)

I don't exactly have the same experience as you (I upgraded to the RP from an 80D) but I mirror your thoughts on the RP. I upgraded because I need something that performs better in low light and not that interested in shooting video. Despite all the negative press, I went ahead and purchased it knowing that I'd be using it mostly for landscapes and portraits. I took it out on my first shoot yesterday and really enjoyed using it, the 24-105mm is great and my 85mm 1.8 EF lens performed beautifully on it. I don't get to do much traveling these days with 4 little ones (and probably won't be doing much beyond occasional road trips because airfare will be astronomical) but there's plenty here in San Diego to photograph and I look forward to using it more. Anyway, I felt compelled to respond because the negative opinions far outweigh the positive and I'm hoping more posts/blogs/vlogs, etc reflect the positive aspects of the RP.


----------



## koenkooi (May 14, 2019)

I planned to get an R around the time there was a promotion to rent an R/RP + RF lenses for a week, for free. So I rented the RP + RF50 + RF24-105 + polarizing adapter. I liked it a lot, but hated how it rubbed the skin away near my ring finger. So 2 days into the rental period I bought the EG-E1 and that suddenly made it comfortable to hold and my wife still classified it as 'nice an small'.
In the end I didn't get the R, but bought an RP + 100mm L. A few months later I still don't have any regrets about that decision.


----------



## JPAZ (May 14, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> I bought the EG-E1 and that suddenly made it comfortable to hold and my wife still classified it as 'nice an small'.



The EG-E1 went on mine day 1 and has remained ever since. Just more comfortable. The only downside to the "grip" is needing to attach a ballhead to the thumbscrew but I might go all in and put a plate on the bottom to use my QR clamps. Just noticed the RRS base plate (with or without the L bracket) might be a replacement for the EG-E1 if it give enough added height for my little finger. Anyone try one of these?


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 15, 2019)

JPAZ said:


> When I 1st got this camera, I thought it would be a "back up" body or my quick "grab and go" camera. I do still love my 5Div, but wonder what will happen.
> 
> I find myself passing the DSLR and reaching for the RP instead more and more. Having taken the new camera on a trip to NYC and having used the new camera when taking shots of my grandkids, I've grown to really like using this. With back button focus, the ability to quickly move focus points using my thumb on the touchscreen, and a pretty reasonable sensor, what's not to like? When I've had images with poor focus, it's been my fault. When I've had images where I have been lured into using too slow of a shutter speed (the IS in the RF 24-105 is awfully good) causing motion blur, it's been my fault. The histogram in my viewfinder is reassuring.
> 
> ...


Yes, I find myself reaching for my R rather than my 5D MK IV just because its handier. Its not as good of a camera, but my 5D IV now seems large and clunky. I'm considering selling it because Its easier to take the R with me, even with its faults.


----------



## Random Orbits (May 15, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Yes, I find myself reaching for my R rather than my 5D MK IV just because its handier. Its not as good of a camera, but my 5D IV now seems large and clunky. I'm considering selling it because Its easier to take the R with me, even with its faults.



I like the R for a lot of things, but for sports I still prefer the 5D IV by a large margin. I tried using the R with the 100-400 II for kids' soccer and at first I tried eyeAF in servo (with the new firmware). I was trying it at my younger daughters' game, and at that age, a lot of players clump together, and I found eyeAF to be useless. It wasn't so much that it would get out of eyeAF and draw a box on the body if the head turned or became obstructed, but it was that there were too many kids in frame and it would focus on one that I didn't want constantly and if I select one, it'd jump off if it detected another face. A lot of people rave about the A9 AF system but I don't know how it handles this type of situation where there are multiple people at different distances. How does it know which person to focus on? Or do people just put on subject in the center and hope that it is the closest (largest in frame)? It was interesting seeing how Jared Polin uses a MILC to focus during a Flyers game. He used the central zone but in his shots there was usually only one main subject in that focusing zone.

As a result, I changed it work with how I'd use the 5D4. Select a AF point (usually 1/3 on either the left or right side depending which way the player is going) and put that point on subject and pan/track accordingly. That worked better, but I still didn't like it. The frame rate and the temporary freezing/blackout in the EVF was jarring compared the optical VF in the 5D4, so it was harder to track with the R. After about 15-20 minutes, I switched to the 5D4 and was much more productive.


----------



## deleteme (May 16, 2019)

Random Orbits said:


> How does it know which person to focus on? Or do people just put on subject in the center and hope that it is the closest (largest in frame)?


No camera really does. I have been frustrated with AF since the first EOS 630. Like any auto process, it can, and frequently does, make an automatic error. The mirrorless camera EVFs demonstrate their error facility when used in exposure simulation mode and any auto exposure mode. As you move the camera around you can easily see how it will change exposure to unacceptable settings with just a small inclusion of light or dark areas.

My only solution is back button focus as so many situations are rarely a single subject in the field of view. Even then I have had the camera jump to the background on a random frame.


----------



## Maximilian (May 16, 2019)

JPAZ said:


> ... still love my 5Div, but wonder what will happen. ...
> ... I find myself passing the DSLR and reaching for the RP instead more and more...


JPAZ, thanks for sharing your thoughts and impressions. 
Fits 100% into my expectation that this could be a really cool travel camera.

As I shoot a lot of movement (children, animals):
What do you think of the EVF? Delay? Etc.?


----------



## Maximilian (May 16, 2019)

old-pr-pix said:


> I went to the dark side several years ago when I bought into the m43 system. ...


<== look to the left 

I though "the dark side" was N**** only. And the rest would be just some sect


----------



## Random Orbits (May 16, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> No camera really does. I have been frustrated with AF since the first EOS 630. Like any auto process, it can, and frequently does, make an automatic error. The mirrorless camera EVFs demonstrate their error facility when used in exposure simulation mode and any auto exposure mode. As you move the camera around you can easily see how it will change exposure to unacceptable settings with just a small inclusion of light or dark areas.
> 
> My only solution is back button focus as so many situations are rarely a single subject in the field of view. Even then I have had the camera jump to the background on a random frame.



Thanks! I'm now less tempted by the claims of the A9's awesome AF. Yes, the frame rate/black out rate could be improved for the R/RP, but I'd still be stuck with fighting the camera to get it to focus where I want.


----------



## JPAZ (May 16, 2019)

Maximilian said:


> As I shoot a lot of movement (children, animals):
> What do you think of the EVF? Delay? Etc.?



I have found the FPS to be more limiting than the EVF. Taking shots of active grandkids has not been a major issue. I honestly have not noticed a big problem with the refresh rate. But, since I've not done any sporting events or BIF with it, can't say how much an issue this can be in some circumstances. This, of course, is offset by the size and ease of grabbing the RP + RF 24-105 and going........ 

A friend shoots m4/3. He keeps his camera and a couple of lenses in his jacket pocket and gets some awfully good images of wildlife. Another friend shoots an A9 (unbelievable FPS with good focus) but the glass for Sony and the image colors are (arguably - don't flame me!) not what I achieve with Canon. I think the bottom line is knowing how to use what you've got and using it to its fullest capability.


----------



## JPAZ (May 16, 2019)

Random Orbits said:


> I'm now less tempted by the claims of the A9's awesome AF.



I have a good friend with a A9. His FPS and focus accuracy is impressive. But, something about the colors are.....well needs a lot more post processing, I think.


----------



## Maximilian (May 16, 2019)

JPAZ said:


> I have found the FPS to be more limiting than the EVF. ...


Thanks for the reply. Looks promissing...


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 16, 2019)

Random Orbits said:


> I like the R for a lot of things, but for sports I still prefer the 5D IV by a large margin.
> As a result, I changed it work with how I'd use the 5D4. Select a AF point (usually 1/3 on either the left or right side depending which way the player is going) and put that point on subject and pan/track accordingly. That worked better, but I still didn't like it. The frame rate and the temporary freezing/blackout in the EVF was jarring compared the optical VF in the 5D4, so it was harder to track with the R. After about 15-20 minutes, I switched to the 5D4 and was much more productive.



Absolutely, for quickly moving subjects, the R is frustrating and I want to throw it out. However, I rarely shoot that type of thing. I did do some for two nights last week, and got far better results with my 5D MK IV and numerous shots with the R where the subject was partially out of the frame. To be able to compare, I did the first night with 70-200 on the R and 24-70 on the 5D MK IV so I could grab the camera I wanted based on the subjects. Then, the following night, I reversed lenses. Most shots were with the 70-200. I'm still wading thru them, but I lost a lot of shots due to poor exposures, the R does better, since it does adjust exposure based on the AF point. Lots of dark areas plus a subject in a very bright spotlight really can fool the auto exposure if you are shooting wide. I don't always have time to switch to spot.


----------



## slclick (May 16, 2019)

Ok, let's imagine an exercise where this was with a 5D3 instead of a 4....


----------



## deleteme (May 16, 2019)

JPAZ said:


> I have a good friend with a A9. His FPS and focus accuracy is impressive. But, something about the colors are.....well needs a lot more post processing, I think.


I have no axe to grind against Sony but the color issue is, IMO, overblown as the default color can always be adjusted. And if one is using a $4500 camera for JPGs I can't really entertain a serious conversation with them.


----------



## deleteme (May 16, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Absolutely, for quickly moving subjects, the R is frustrating and I want to throw it out. However, I rarely shoot that type of thing. I did do some for two nights last week, and got far better results with my 5D MK IV and numerous shots with the R where the subject was partially out of the frame. To be able to compare, I did the first night with 70-200 on the R and 24-70 on the 5D MK IV so I could grab the camera I wanted based on the subjects. Then, the following night, I reversed lenses. Most shots were with the 70-200. I'm still wading thru them, but I lost a lot of shots due to poor exposures, the R does better, since it does adjust exposure based on the AF point. Lots of dark areas plus a subject in a very bright spotlight really can fool the auto exposure if you are shooting wide. I don't always have time to switch to spot.


The huge advantage of the EVF is the ability to see the exposure and adjust exposure as needed as contrasty situations are the bane of auto exposure no matter the hyperbole the manufacturers squeak.


----------



## AlanF (May 16, 2019)

We all live in our particular ecological niche and choose our gear accordingly. A huge advantage of an EVF to you is a bane to me as an OVF is much better for my needs of staring though a viewfinder at birds or wildlife. As for having a lightweight all-in-one alternative for trekking, I tried originally to use a Canon G3X 24-600mm equivalent but it wasn't up to the job and I take the Sony 24-600mm now as it gives very respectable results.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 16, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> The huge advantage of the EVF is the ability to see the exposure and adjust exposure as needed as contrasty situations are the bane of auto exposure no matter the hyperbole the manufacturers squeak.


My EVF is worthless for adjusting exposure. Even though its properly adjusted, everything appears blown out. I use the rear LCD to see the exposure. I'm taking shots so fast and lighting is constantly changing that adjusting exposures manually does not work. If I tap the subject on the LCD, it exposes perfectly unless its one of those really contrasty situations. Then I just adjust the compensation.


----------



## Quirkz (May 21, 2019)

Funny thing, this is exactly what happened to me.

I just got back from a 2 week trip to Japan where I left the 5DIV behind, and took only the RP.

I loved it.

I didn't miss the 5D4 at all. The RP is a much better camera than the youtube crowd would have you believe. 

Great ergonomics and amazing picture quality. The RF 24-105 is an stunning lens (much better than my original EF v1 I stopped using long ago).
Just a really light, portable travel camera. Shadow push is still more than enough for _most_ scenarios despite the DR nerdgasm raging that's been going on (I emphasis _most_ because I do understand that for some rare cases that extra stop and a half is important to some people).

high ISO noise is not _quite_ as nice as the 5D4, but definitely better than the fuji and m5.

Autofocus is fast and accurate. with an adapted 100-400 is was not as fast as the 5D4, but good enough. (maybe because of smaller battery on so much heavy glass? Other lenses were lightning fast)

They improved the already excellent 'touchscreen drag' focus from the m5 I was familiar with.

Battery life is... meh. I had to charge every night, but I only once had to switch a battery during a day of casual sightseeing and photography. Tweaking eco settings helped avoid it on following days. I also switched the strap connecting via the tripod mount - This prevented the back screen brushing against my shirt and keeping the screen on, killing batter fast (This is a problem I've found with all touchscreen mirrorless).

The USB-C was convenient - Fast quick charging from my MacBook charger without needing another charger. Very fast downloading of photos from the camera as well when plugging directly in to the laptop.

Years ago, I bought a Sony A7s - And was very dissatisfied with it. Turns out that the camera I wanted when I bought the A7s was actually the RP.

The 5D4 is undoubtedly a better camera, and for certain tasks it excels compared to the RP. But when it comes to casual travel or family snaps, the RP + 24-105 is just sooo much lighter and more compact.

I also took my fuji along - And didn't pull it out of my pack once. The RP + RF35 was compact enough that the times I would have left my 5D4 behind and taken the Fuji just didn't happen. I always reached the RP instead.

I'm also sitting here thinking very very carefully about whether I keep the 5D4. And even if I sell my fuji and all those lenses. I think that will depend on the quality and size of the 24-240. If the 24-240 is compact enough, and high quality to account for most of the size advantage of the Fuji + lenses, then I might just sell all those other cameras and keep just the RP. Those other cameras buy a lot of beautiful RF glass after all; and potentially whatever R camera comes next.


----------



## SaP34US (May 21, 2019)

Quirkz, how many photos were able to take on a full charge on the trip?


----------



## Boudreaux&Thibodeaux (May 22, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> My EVF is worthless for adjusting exposure. Even though its properly adjusted, everything appears blown out. I use the rear LCD to see the exposure. I'm taking shots so fast and lighting is constantly changing that adjusting exposures manually does not work. If I tap the subject on the LCD, it exposes perfectly unless its one of those really contrasty situations. Then I just adjust the compensation.



Alone, the EVF cannot be used to judge exposure, but... (at least on the R) you can get the histogram, and make informed judgement calls when going + or - over ride.

You can get a rough approximation of monochrome contrast rendition with the EVF. Also can a pretty darn good idea of the light's color correction in the EVF. 

The EVF is great in low light. The EVF is great is super bright light too. Then again, I've got the R not the RP and... I didn't get to test the RP except in a big box store. It didn't play well with my glasses so I got the R instead.

And FWIW, the R is my go to. Smaller, lighter, focuses more accurately, very low "missed focus" percentage, viewfinder is the cats patootie for shooting stage acts. 

I'm shooting everything from birds in my backyard, gritty biker venues, and grittier biker rallies, with occasional portraiture thrown into the mix (usually on location, at best a reflector or one flash for fill).


----------



## Jethro (May 22, 2019)

I use the histogram through the EVF as well, and between them I'm pretty happy with the exposure I'm getting. I particularly love being able to zoom through the EVF, to ensure focus is on the right detail.


----------



## Kit. (May 22, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Most shots were with the 70-200. I'm still wading thru them, but I lost a lot of shots due to poor exposures, the R does better, since it does adjust exposure based on the AF point. Lots of dark areas plus a subject in a very bright spotlight really can fool the auto exposure if you are shooting wide. I don't always have time to switch to spot.


Do you have time to use the AE lock button and then reframe?


----------



## Quirkz (May 22, 2019)

SaP34US said:


> Quirkz, how many photos were able to take on a full charge on the trip?



My days were casual. I was usually taking between 70-150 photos each day, and usually had plenty battery life left. When I pushed close to 150 shots, I found the battery tended to be around 25%. Battery life was also affected by the fact I would review & do a first pass at deleting photos I didn't like during the day while I had downtime on the camera itself.

The one day I needed to change the battery was the first day - After this I tweaked the eco settings to switch off the camera more quickly, and paid attention to whether it was on, gobbling charge while walking around due to accidentally brushing the back touchscreen. As I said, this is not an RP issue, it's an issue I've had with every mirrorless camera, especially those with touchscreens.

So, casual photography while sightseeing it's perfectly fine, you're going to get the 250 shot rating.
Even for the casual days, I always took a spare battery, even though I used it only once - that once was enough to convince me I needed.

It's a small battery, no getting around it; on a big, full frame and full featured power hungry mirrorless camera. It's got just enough charge to be acceptable.

If you're planning serious photo shoots with 200+ photos, then you're going through batteries. Probably an annoyance for a wedding photographer, for example. But for my casual street and travel photography it was absolutely fine.


----------



## koenkooi (May 23, 2019)

Quirkz said:


> My days were casual. I was usually taking between 70-150 photos each day, and usually had plenty battery life left. When I pushed close to 150 shots, I found the battery tended to be around 25%. Battery life was also affected by the fact I would review & do a first pass at deleting photos I didn't like during the day while I had downtime on the camera itself.
> 
> The one day I needed to change the battery was the first day - After this I tweaked the eco settings to switch off the camera more quickly, and paid attention to whether it was on, gobbling charge while walking around due to accidentally brushing the back touchscreen. As I said, this is not an RP issue, it's an issue I've had with every mirrorless camera, especially those with touchscreens.
> 
> ...



That is in line with what I have experienced, but there are some ways you can get better statistics. You can get a lot more photos on the card if you set it to high speed and take a burst of like 5 pictures every time. Last weekend I took 300 pictures using an IS lens and the battery was about half full after that. That was during a macro workshop, so I bet that will work out to 30-50 keepers.


----------



## JPAZ (May 23, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> That is in line with what I have experienced, but there are some ways you can get better statistics. You can get a lot more photos on the card if you set it to high speed and take a burst of like 5 pictures every time. Last weekend I took 300 pictures using an IS lens and the battery was about half full after that. That was during a macro workshop, so I bet that will work out to 30-50 keepers.



I've got mine set to ECO. I leave the touchscreen closed unless I need it. I turn it off immediately (if I turn off the IS to save battery, I might not remember to turn it on so just turn off the camera) if I now I'll not be taking shots for a bit (probably not necessary since it "times out" on its own) and I do almost no crimping. I've taken over 350 shots with the RF 24-105 and have battery still available. 

I do wish the IS would not stay "on" and maybe a future firmware upgrade will improve that.

I have 3 batteries 'cause 1 came with the camera and I had extras from my old M days. I am planning a trip and thinking about the RP instead of my 5Div. I'd bring the RF 24-105, the EF 16-35 and the EF 100-400 vii with the RF-EF adapter. What is anyone's experience with the EF + adapter and battery life? Assuming 200-300 shots a day (and that is likely more than I'd do) and 3 batteries, would I get a couple of days worth of images between charges?


----------



## Quirkz (May 26, 2019)

JPAZ said:


> I've got mine set to ECO. I leave the touchscreen closed unless I need it. I turn it off immediately (if I turn off the IS to save battery, I might not remember to turn it on so just turn off the camera) if I now I'll not be taking shots for a bit (probably not necessary since it "times out" on its own) and I do almost no crimping. I've taken over 350 shots with the RF 24-105 and have battery still available.
> 
> I do wish the IS would not stay "on" and maybe a future firmware upgrade will improve that.
> 
> I have 3 batteries 'cause 1 came with the camera and I had extras from my old M days. I am planning a trip and thinking about the RP instead of my 5Div. I'd bring the RF 24-105, the EF 16-35 and the EF 100-400 vii with the RF-EF adapter. What is anyone's experience with the EF + adapter and battery life? Assuming 200-300 shots a day (and that is likely more than I'd do) and 3 batteries, would I get a couple of days worth of images between charges?



Hmmmmm. 3 battery’s over two days? Probably, if you didn’t chimp too much. Safer to plan on charging each night though. At least it’s quick and easy via usb c

I didn’t use my elf lenses much as the rf24-105 ended up stuck on the camera, but with what little I did, I didn’t see a change in battery life.


----------

