# Nikon D610 yes D600 minor upgrade!



## klickflip (Oct 8, 2013)

http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/nikon-announces-slightly-improved-d610-1187348

And Calumet just emailed them advertised for Pre-Order. 

Seems a bit strange to release a small upgrade just a year on, but sales and feedback must of been pretty bad if they felt the need to do so. But at least they are doing something and churning out decent new cameras very quickly at the moment. Plus not afraid that this may well be open to critism that they themselves are admitting that the D600 was sub par for the market/ at release. 
But this is quite refreshing and open.. eh Canon?!! 

Could this be the way ahead now to release minor upgrades at say the same initial price point to offer the latest improvements for those wishing to keep on the tech front? 

Makes me imagine a 5D 3.1 with a nicer sensor - 1 stop more DR , less banding / noise and maybe 30MP. 
And keep everything else with it! 

(Then the proper Big MP can still be a separate beast!) 

What do you think?, are Nikon on the right road or have they gone nuts and are going for glory or bust with all their recent products that get great reviews but probably don't sell quite the numbers conservative canon does?!!


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## ajfotofilmagem (Oct 8, 2013)

By the rumors, it will be an update of emergency to end the stigma of the oil in the mirror and other bug. More or less what Canon meant T4i > T5i. At this time, could make a canon 6D Mark ii with autofocus best off center. In these days, no focus point double crossed F2.8 seems an insult.


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## ishdakuteb (Oct 8, 2013)

"minor update"... wait until this model is shipped out, then i am going to talk about it and hopefully what i guess is right.

here is one of the KEY "shipped date are expected to be around 10/18/2013" if i am correct...


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## unfocused (Oct 8, 2013)

Nikon is trying to stop the bleeding on this one. The 6D is selling quite nicely. Canon has no reason to tweak it. And, by the way, there is a huge difference between adjusting a silent mode and white balance vs. changing out either a sensor or a focusing system.


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## 9VIII (Oct 8, 2013)

Wouldn't it be funny if this just turned out to be Nikon adopting a rapid release cycle format and the shutter is exactly the same?


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## Lichtgestalt (Oct 8, 2013)

the oil issue would have really pi$$ed me off as D600 customer.
and how nikon has handled this was lame.

i hope when canon is in such a situation they do better.


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## distant.star (Oct 8, 2013)

.
The nasty little marketing elves at retailers will try to make hay with this, especially through the "holiday" shopping season.

Personally, it means nothing to me.

And, I'm guessing it goes largely unnoticed at Canon.


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## Sporgon (Oct 8, 2013)

My guess is that Mitsubishi insist Nikon makes more margin per body than Canon needs to. IMO Nikons up to and including prosumer grade are cheaper made than the equivalent Canon. How the tables have turned. Faulty shutter design was a major boo boo. If I'd bought a D600 I'd be hopping mad.


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## Ewinter (Oct 9, 2013)

distant.star said:


> .
> The nasty little marketing elves at retailers will try to make hay with this, especially through the "holiday" shopping season.
> 
> Personally, it means nothing to me.
> ...


The only hay I'll be making with this is "it's not broken like the old one".
I'd imagine canon are creasing up about it, and I'm a nice little marketing elf, thanks very much


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## privatebydesign (Oct 9, 2013)

dilbert said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > By the rumors, it will be an update of emergency to end the stigma of the oil in the mirror and other bug. More or less what Canon meant T4i > T5i. At this time, could make a canon 6D Mark ii with autofocus best off center. In these days, no focus point double crossed F2.8 seems an insult.
> ...



Er, I think you need to check your dates.

1D: thirty months
1D MkII: twenty one months
1D MkIIN: fifteen months
1D MkIII: thirty three months
1D MkIV: thirty one months
1DX: eighteen months and counting

That makes the 1D MkIII the longest serving 1D camera to date.


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## SiliconVoid (Oct 9, 2013)

klickflip said:


> Makes me imagine a 5D 3.1 with a nicer sensor - 1 stop more DR , less banding / noise and maybe 30MP.
> And keep everything else with it!
> 
> (Then the proper Big MP can still be a separate beast!)




-What exactly is wrong with the 5DmkIII sensor???????

-The 5DmkIII already captures a comparable scene with about 2/3 stop brighter shadows than Nikon, so you already have the ~1 stop more DR from the get-go. Stop longing for technology that serves limited other purpose than an anticipated ranking from a "pay-for-score" service like DxO. The reality with broad DR is that most people use it to create (read:recover) a shot they could have taken in the first place if they learned how to properly read/adjust exposure.

-Same thing with more MP.. A survey of the some of the largest printing firms in the US indicates that poster size prints represent the smallest percentage of their output - so very few people are printing posters and therefore have little argument for high MP other than hoping to crop a shot they should have properly composed/captured in the field..

Too many 'photographers' today are waiting for a camera with 200mp, full sensor AF, and 204,800ISO so they don't have to do anything but point the camera in the general direction of their subject and then go home and crop/zoom the shot they should have taken in the field - that is not photography, that is surveillance...

(Please understand I am addressing the perspective of your comments because they are ignorantly shared by a large percentage of consumers - I am not attacking you personally  )


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 9, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> Er, I think you need to check your dates.



+1 It's always amusing when people don't check their facts before posting...more so when it's a pattern.

The analogy of the 1DIII is an interesting choice, since Canon recalled them for the AF fix - a very direct way to deal with a known issue, rather than offering a 'upgrade' as a fix.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 9, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> The analogy of the 1DIII is an interesting choice, since Canon recalled them for the AF fix - a very direct way to deal with a known issue, rather than offering a 'upgrade' as a fix.



For once, I'm thankful to own Canon equipment, the d600 update is really embarrassing and proves they've got no problem with devaluating their customers' equipment in no time.

Nikon wants to get a foot in the marketplace and has to be innovative and release their newest developments asap. Canon on the other hand is so conservative with lenses and cameras that I am very calm about having bought a 17-40L and 6d1, I don't expect them to release the 6d2 next month with improved af, not unless they've milked every cent from the 6d1 production line.


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## Roo (Oct 9, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Er, I think you need to check your dates.
> ...



Agreed. A recall at least acknowledges the problem and supports your customers by giving them what they should have had in the first place. Fixing the problem by releasing it as a 'new' model is really insulting your customers that shelled out their hard earned on a faulty product. It's kinda like saying, 'Hey look we fixed the sensor problem but you're gonna have to pay full price to get it. Ohh and good luck selling your old faulty body!'.


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## GMCPhotographics (Oct 9, 2013)

Nikon really dropped the ball with the D800 and D600. Canon have really picked up their game with the 1Dx, 5DIII and 6D. The new 610 specs look very much like a feature plugged responce to the 5DIII and 6D. 
For my wedding work, the 5DIII's quiet mode shutter is a game changer. It's good to see Nikon finally catching up with this, as usual a little late to the party. Hello cmos, hello full frame, hello live view, hello movie mode...and now hello quiet shutter mode. 

It's not good that a camera in this price bracket and feature bracket has needed a warm over so quickly, but I guess that's a responce from the disasterous sales issues. How long will Nikon owners put up with this type of customer care or poor product development. The lack of silent mode is quite a biggie in the post 5DIII world.


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## Lichtgestalt (Oct 9, 2013)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Nikon really dropped the ball with the D800 and D600. Canon have really picked up their game with the 1Dx, 5DIII and 6D. The new 610 specs look very much like a feature plugged responce to the 5DIII and 6D.
> For my wedding work, the 5DIII's quiet mode shutter is a game changer. It's good to see Nikon finally catching up with this, as usual a little late to the party. Hello cmos, hello full frame, hello live view, hello movie mode...and now hello quiet shutter mode.
> 
> It's not good that a camera in this price bracket and feature bracket has needed a warm over so quickly, but I guess that's a responce from the disasterous sales issues. How long will Nikon owners put up with this type of customer care or poor product development. The lack of silent mode is quite a biggie in the post 5DIII world.



a shutter has to sound like a shutter. 

Al Bundy's Ferguson


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## dshipley (Oct 9, 2013)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Nikon really dropped the ball with the D800 and D600. Canon have really picked up their game with the 1Dx, 5DIII and 6D. The new 610 specs look very much like a feature plugged responce to the 5DIII and 6D.
> For my wedding work, the 5DIII's quiet mode shutter is a game changer. It's good to see Nikon finally catching up with this, as usual a little late to the party. Hello cmos, hello full frame, *hello live view*, *hello movie mode*...and now hello quiet shutter mode.
> 
> It's not good that a camera in this price bracket and feature bracket has needed a warm over so quickly, but I guess that's a responce from the disasterous sales issues. How long will Nikon owners put up with this type of customer care or poor product development. The lack of silent mode is quite a biggie in the post 5DIII world.



1st DSLR with "live preview" - Olympus E-10
1st DSLR with video recording - Nikon D90

All of the brands have their good and bad. A few that come to mind quickly for Canon...

• RGB color metering - The 1DX finally has it... Nikon has been doing this in all of their cameras since the late 1990s.
• Spot meter via selected AF point - Only in the 1D series... Nikon allows this in all of their bodies.

At the moment Nikon and Canon both produce products that are so closely matched it really is more a matter of photographer preference.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 9, 2013)

Nikon is making a habit of 5h!tting on their customers ... first it was the SB900 and now the D600 ... they kept denying any problem with oily sensors, until majority of their D600 customers started making noise about it ... D610 is NOT an upgrade, it is just a D600 (hopefully) without the oily sensor ... I wonder what kind of lame a55 quality control do they have at Nikon these days. I had considered buying the D600 but I changed my mind and got the D7100.


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## Lichtgestalt (Oct 9, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Nikon is making a habit of 5h!tting on their customers ... first it was the SB900 and now the D600 ... they kept denying any problem with oily sensors, until majority of their D600 customers started making noise about it ... D610 is NOT an upgrade, it is just a D600 (hopefully) without the oily sensor ... I wonder what kind of lame a55 quality control do they have at Nikon these days. I had considered buying the D600 but I changed my mind and got the D7100.



they should have done the same as with the D5000. recall the D600.


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## MK5GTI (Oct 9, 2013)

dshipley said:


> • RGB color metering - The 1DX finally has it... Nikon has been doing this in all of their cameras since the late 1990s.
> • Spot meter via selected AF point - Only in the 1D series... Nikon allows this in all of their bodies.



isn't it 7D is the first color metering? iFCL?
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/exposure_settings/iFCL_metering.do

i agree with spot metering, even the lowest D3200 has it, but i just love my Canon EOS 3 film camera that can link AF points with spot metering.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 9, 2013)

MK5GTI said:


> isn't it 7D is the first color metering? iFCL?
> http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/exposure_settings/iFCL_metering.do
> 
> i agree with spot metering, even the lowest D3200 has it, but i just love my Canon EOS 3 film camera that can link AF points with spot metering.



The 7D's iFCL metering sensor is sensitive to two (broad and overlapping) color channels, it's not true RGB metering.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 9, 2013)

MK5GTI said:


> i agree with spot metering, even the lowest D3200 has it, but i just love my Canon EOS 3 film camera that can link AF points with spot metering.



I like my 6d for this reason with its very consistent featue set - it has just one usable af point, so no worries about such posh features like spot linking to af point 8-o


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## Woody (Oct 10, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Except that the "fix" never really fixed the problem completely.
> http://www.robgalbraith.com/multi_pageb10a.html?cid=7-8740-9068-10086



So says Rob Galbraith... who has since then retired into anonymity.

Also, Canon at least had the courage to own up to the problem. Nikon, on the other hand, has never really fessed up to their issues. 

"The sad thing is that this isn't the first time Nikon's been unable to fess up to a problem. This is now endemic with them. As Michael Johnston at Online Photographer points out, this sort of problem denial goes way back into the film days for Nikon..." - http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-early-nikon-d610-headli.html (Thom Hogan, a loyal Nikon supporter)


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## privatebydesign (Oct 10, 2013)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Well it kinda depends, the whole situation was a mess and there is no denying some cameras did suffer some AF issues in some situations, however, there are an awful lot of people who used and still use the 1D MkIII and have never had AF issues, that was the thing that took so much fixing. A noticeable issue across every camera is comparatively easy to fix, a consistent issue among some cameras is also a relatively easy forensic diagnosis and repair, but an inconsistent issue among some cameras is devilishly difficult to fix. And it isn't like Canon didn't try.

Canon sent a team of technicians to Canada to work with Galbraith because they couldn't get repeatable results that matched Galbraith's in Japan, they spent a lot of time money and effort trying to get consistency in the failure and even Galbraith himself admitted they had done so much testing they believed they had lost sight of any issue and were going in circles. Canon lost hope in his methodology and recalled their team, he kept badmouthing them and lost a lot of goodwill from Canon (as did Andy Rouse in the UK, who very publicly trashed Canon and moved to Nikon, subsequently he used the 1Dx and MkII teles and is a Canon shooter again, but he didn't get involved in the politics this time and made his swap with a much lower profile), of course Galbraith did what so many people who upset the statu quo do, he sidestepped his profession and became a teacher.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 10, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



More *facts* for dilbert to ponder...


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## privatebydesign (Oct 10, 2013)

dilbert said:


> I never read about the "they spent a lot of time" and onwards part before. Where did that get documented?



It was all Galbraith's writing on his own site, it is conspicuously absent from the 1D MkIII chronology you link to though. On rereading his posts it seems several situations have been "revised".

I was particularly interested in the situation at the time with respect to the 1Ds MkIII AF and followed everything written very closely, I had his RSS until he gave it up last year. I subsequently bought into the 1Ds MkIII and although I rarely use Servo AF I am very happy with the camera. It is certainly vastly better than the other FF option at the time, the 5D !


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## Woody (Oct 10, 2013)

dilbert said:


> I never read about the "they spent a lot of time" and onwards part before. Where did that get documented?



You'll need to comb through Rob Galbraith's website: his long series of articles on 1D Mark III AF, various preludes to aforementioned articles as well as his criticism of Canon's offerings after the 1D Mark III. The info is all there.

Ultimately, like what others have pointed out, why do you think Rob Galbraith finally had to quit his job?


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## Albi86 (Oct 13, 2013)

I don't know how it came to 1D3... anyway, back to the topic...

We should wait and see what this D610 actually is offering over the D600.

If it's a considerable improvement (of sorts, because the spec sheet is very much the same) then I'd be a bit annoyed as an owner of a D600. Not because this D610 takes anything away from mine, but because I couldn't help thinking that it is what the D600 was supposed to be to begin with.


Otherwise it's a marketing trick to clean up the reputation of the D600. It's disputable to claim that Nikon didn't acknowledge the problem: in fact they did, and anyway we will never know what is the % of affected cameras over the total. As such, the D610 might not be aimed at solving a real problem but only a perceived problem that is keeping buyers on the fence. My D600 never had oil issues and I'm now approaching 5K shots.


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## dgatwood (Dec 29, 2013)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Nikon really dropped the ball with the D800 and D600. Canon have really picked up their game with the 1Dx, 5DIII and 6D. The new 610 specs look very much like a feature plugged responce to the 5DIII and 6D.



If it were a response to the 6D, it would have GPS and Wi-Fi. Unless by that, you mean it's a response to the 6D not flinging oil all over the sensor.


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## weixing (Dec 29, 2013)

Hi,


dgatwood said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > Nikon really dropped the ball with the D800 and D600. Canon have really picked up their game with the 1Dx, 5DIII and 6D. The new 610 specs look very much like a feature plugged responce to the 5DIII and 6D.
> ...


 It's not a response to 6D... we all know it's a response to D600... 

Have a nice day.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 29, 2013)

weixing said:


> dgatwood said:
> 
> 
> > GMCPhotographics said:
> ...



... as was the 6d, Canon would have never released it without the pressure from Nikon. 

We could (or rather not start) to argue Canon vs. Nikon systems and specs vs. reality all day long, but from what I've seen Nikon's updated camera leaves very little to be desired and the trolling level of some of the posts above proves that Canon die hards are at a loss to find any real arguments :-o

RGB metering, silent shutter, 100% viewfinder, 6fps, f8 autofocus, 39 af points, 24mp ff for under $2000, oh my, this is throwing down the gauntlet.


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## Bruce Photography (Dec 29, 2013)

As someone else mentioned, Nikon should take note of the Canon 5D3 nearly soundless shutter setting. Very nice indeed. Nikon should also look at the sensor locations on the D600 and D610 as just taking such a small part of the viewfinder that moving the focus selection just doesn't make that much difference. I don't own either camera but a good shooting friend lends me his D600 and the location of the sensors is quite noticeable. Look at the D7100 - all the way different. They did the sensor locations in the viewfinder just right -- almost all the way to the edge. I like the number of sensors on the 5D3 but I get very annoyed at the lack of auto sensor movement when you are trying to move the sensor selection from one side (or top to bottom) to the other. Nikon does much better in this department. I think that Canon has so many xxD cameras with so few sensors that this hasn't been a problem before the 5D3 but now with 61 sensors Canon needs to look at the Nikon implementation.

In fact, that is what I'm hoping from both Camera companies. I hope they look at whatever really works regardless of company and if they can duplicate the functionality or improve it someway without patent infringement, they should.


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## StudentOfLight (Jan 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> RGB metering, silent shutter, 100% viewfinder, 6fps, f8 autofocus, 39 af points, 24mp ff for under $2000, oh my, this is throwing down the gauntlet.



True, it seems to be positioned just behind the 5D Mark-III. In South Africa it was launched for R31,000 (body only); which was about $2885, almost as much as the 5D-III which was about R34,000 until the massive new year increases. 

The fact that so many perceive it as a "D600 fixed" leaves a bad taste in the mouth. On paper at least they have spec'ed the D610 as a low cost competitor to the 5D Mark-III, but Nikon should really have used the opportunity to improve ergonomics as well. That perhaps could have justified a new product release. As a general purpose camera I can't see myself shooting with it whole day, even my 60D/6D (despite being close in size) are more comfortable to use with my ave average-sized hands. I don't know, perhaps it still sells well in other regions where potential buyers might have smaller hands.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jan 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > dgatwood said:
> ...



I remember reading an interview with Canon's DSLR director from a few years back (he was a newly appointed exec at the time). He talked about the need to unify the 1D series into a single camera and splitting the 5D into two models for two markets. One would be pro-ed up and the other consumered down. So on hind sight, the 1Dx / 5DIII and 6D are the products of his direction as opposed to any marketing / product pressure from Canon. It's quite clear that Nikon tried to splice into Canon's range and not the other way round. So the D700 was sitting in the gap between the 5D and 1Ds III. 
lets face it, the 5DIII really is the 3D we all wanted and then some. Sure 35mp would have been nice, but the current camera is easily the most versatile from any camera manufacturer to date and is a PJ / wedding photographer's wet dream.


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