# I killed my brand new 7D MK2 today



## Klaus Kleber (Nov 13, 2014)

Just a warning. 

When you insert your memory card be carefull.
I managed to kill my brand new 7D MK2 today when i was puting a memory card in it.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 13, 2014)

You broke one of the pins in slot CF? :-[ :-\


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## bseitz234 (Nov 13, 2014)

You're not the only one: 
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=13892


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 13, 2014)




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## dslrdummy (Nov 13, 2014)

Did it years ago with my 5Dc. Pins must have touched and shorted out the mother board - cost $350 to fix.


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## Viggo (Nov 13, 2014)

I saw that over at TDP today also, I had to see if I could insert it the wrong way In the 1dx also, and sure easily done. So this is NOT A 7d2-Canon sucks light leak monster issue, just pay some attention...


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## Klaus Kleber (Nov 13, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> You're not the only one:
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=13892



Couldnt he have posted that earlier. :-X

It´s still under Warranty i just send it back.
Im pretty sure i will get a replacement without any trouble.


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## Larry (Nov 13, 2014)

Klaus Kleber said:


> Just a warning.
> 
> When you insert your memory card be carefull.
> I managed to kill my brand new 7D MK2 today when i was puting a memory card in it.



Umm, ...Maybe it would help others if you explained what you did wrong? ???


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## Jane (Nov 13, 2014)

Oh my goodness! That's certainly an attention-getting title! Thanks for the warning. I'm putting together a list of good practices for a local group of photographers of varying expertise. Now I must add: Insert cards the correct way!


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## privatebydesign (Nov 13, 2014)

Klaus Kleber said:


> bseitz234 said:
> 
> 
> > You're not the only one:
> ...



I'd like to better understand why you believe this is a warranty issue, to my mind you broke it so you should be liable, certainly there doesn't seem to have been a manufacturing defect.


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## DominoDude (Nov 13, 2014)

Klaus Kleber said:


> bseitz234 said:
> 
> 
> > You're not the only one:
> ...



In what way was the camera defective, before you inserted the card and killed it?


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## Joe M (Nov 13, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Klaus Kleber said:
> 
> 
> > bseitz234 said:
> ...


I suppose one could theoretically argue it's a design defect which led to the ability to accidentally insert the card incorrectly with the potential for damage. Theoretically. The reality is of course that, unfortunate as it may be, it's user error and Canon will not be taking responsibility for it. Has Canon ever fixed a bent pin issue under warranty? Unless it came out of the box that way......



bseitz234 said:


> You're not the only one:
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=13892


I've heard of people doing this in the past with other cameras. I can't recall the model but I think it was one where (as Sean says similar to the 5D3 wherein you can do this but really have to work at it though I myself am not willing to have a go to find out  ). So, I seem to remember that people had to "really stuff it in" and thought it strange only to take the card out and wonder why pins were bent, hence asking why they bent and how to fix them. Then, only to realize, the card was inserted with effort, wrongly. Bummer to hear it's so easy with the 7D2..and the 7D. Glad I was always careful with mine and as I said, I won't be volunteering to see how hard it is to do on the 5D3.


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## risc32 (Nov 14, 2014)

recently out of some fear of going this very thing, i started using a USB cable to dump images into my computer. Of course that won't help me in the field when i've reached a cards capacity, but what can you do? well, i guess one could buy a really huge card...


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## ecka (Nov 14, 2014)

So, why would anyone insert a memory cards without looking?


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## Marsu42 (Nov 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> I'd like to better understand why you believe this is a warranty issue, to my mind you broke it so you should be liable, certainly there doesn't seem to have been a manufacturing defect.



Maybe we should do a contest or a poll "Ingenious ways to break your camera". How about trying to screw on your lens the wrong way around?

What would the Canon community say if Nikon/Sony users would complain that squeezing in the card the wrong way damages the pins? Right. I hope not too many of them read about this :-o



ecka said:


> So, why would anyone insert a memory cards without looking?



In all fairness, a lot of things can go wrong when being tired or in a hurry, but spinning this as a warranty case...


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## jrista (Nov 14, 2014)

Klaus Kleber said:


> bseitz234 said:
> 
> 
> > You're not the only one:
> ...




Warranty only applies if it is a manufacturing defect or other liability issue. If you break your own camera by your own stupidity...well, the warranty does not apply.  


EDIT: And I just now realized that everyone else told you the same thing! : MAYBE it could be argued that this is a design flaw...I tried it with my 5D III and 7D, the card didn't seem that easy to put in...I had to exert some force, where as it just slides right in when I orient it properly. So, I don't think this could be construed as a design flaw. People just need to pay attention.


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## Khristo (Nov 14, 2014)

It is a Japanese company that should know all about Poka-yoke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke

Design fault - yes I'd go that far. They certainly should have developed a design to prevent incorrect insertion if reasonably possible.
Warranty? More debatable.


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## Maui5150 (Nov 14, 2014)

Actually it would be a flaw of the CF standard, not Canon. I am sure there are some tolerance and ranges with cars and deviation for thickness, and while there is a little lip on the end, I can see where this lip is not enough to present insertion.

To truly be safe, there should be a guide or from on the CF card, such as a channel that presents a card being inserted backwards, upside down, or in this case sideways

Notice on the SD cards, there is a notch, which while you can insert backwards, it will only go in so far


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## Khristo (Nov 14, 2014)

Better design of the CF card could make it easier of course.

In the spirit of internet forums, i wrote without actually trying it myself ;D , but I think I recall not being able to insert in the 5D3 the wrong way - as others seem to be saying - so the opportunity seems to be there for Canon to do a better job from their side. 

(Mind you, I would have tried to insert it with the label towards camera front and the pin edge still pointing towards the pins, not with the pin edge pointing up. But hey, you can't help bad luck!!)


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## lilmsmaggie (Nov 14, 2014)

Maui5150 said:


> To truly be safe, there should be a guide or from on the CF card, such as a channel that presents a card being inserted backwards, upside down, or in this case sideways



Not to be funny but its called a User Manual. If this is arbitrated, adjudicated or whatever legal parlance that would describe any consumer remedy, the first question would be: "Did you read the manual?" or some question that would indicate that the person familiarized them-self with camera. I believe in every Canon DSLR user manual, there is section: "Getting started" that explains with illustration, the proper orientation of the memory card and how it should be inserted into the camera. If I'm not mistaken, there is an embossed image on the lid of the memory card compartment showing the direction the card should be inserted into the slot. 
I know my 6D has it on the lid, I'll have to check my 5D II.




Maui5150 said:


> Notice on the SD cards, there is a notch, which while you can insert backwards, it will only go in so far



I had a coworker about 4 years ago, insert the SD backwards into her Nikon the wrong way. Got it jammed in there really good. Ever since, I've been paranoid about inserting a memory card in the wrong way, so I pay close attention. 

When it comes to us humans, Murphy's Law is just a moment away.


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## BozillaNZ (Nov 14, 2014)

"I killed my brand new 7D II today --- with a hammer!"

There are only two things which are infinite: The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former... says Albert-who?


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## 3kramd5 (Nov 14, 2014)

bseitz234 said:


> You're not the only one:
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=13892



Nice. I once fixed bent (shorted, criss-crossed like the in-n-out palm trees logo) pins of a USB 3 jack on a motherboard with a pair of tweezers. Good times.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 14, 2014)

CF cards should not go in backwards. There is a wide groove on one side and a narrow one on the other to prevent them from going in wrong.

Either it was forced in, or the card slot was defective. Pins do get bent though.

Either way, its a warranty item.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > CF cards should not go in backwards. There is a wide groove on one side and a narrow one on the other to prevent them from going in wrong.
> ...


If you are putting one in sideways, it could bend pins if you scoop them. I've had two cameras with bent pins. One was a old powershot that I bought for the charger and the card that was in it, the other was a expensive DSLR that I was able to fix by carefully straightening the pin. The most extreme case of pin fixing came when I sent a guy to the top of a rocket on the launch pad at Cape Kennedy. He confirmed the pin issue and fixed it, but NASA wouldn't buy that, they replaced that electronic box. In this case, there was no danger of malfunction, but anything not perfect gets replaced.


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## lilmsmaggie (Nov 14, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Either way, its a warranty item.



Ah yes. The warranty ...

EOS DIGITAL CAMERA LIMITED WARRANTY
For The U.S.A. And Canada Only

"This limited warranty covers all defects encountered in normal use of the Product, and does not apply in
the following cases:

(a) Loss of or damage to the Product due to abuse, mishandling, improper packaging by you,
alteration, accident, electrical current fluctuations, failure to follow operating, maintenance or
environmental instructions prescribed in Canon U.S.A.'s or Canon Canada's user's manual or
services performed by someone other than Canon U.S.A. or Canon Canada, or a Canon
authorized service provider for the Product. Without limiting the foregoing, water damage,
sand/corrosion damage, battery leakage, dropping the Product, scratches, abrasions or damage
to the body, lenses or LCD display or damage to the any of the accessories mentioned in the first
paragraph above will be presumed to have resulted from misuse, abuse or failure to operate the
Product as set forth in the operating instructions."

There's always an escape clause somewhere ;D

In Bryan Carnathan case, I believe he owned up to the fact that it was his fault and even though he could send the camera, if need be, to CPS for repair; he also knew that Canon wouldn't be on the hook for the repair cost.


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## Viggo (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm shaking my head over this. Sh!t happens!

And as I said, but no one read, it's the same way on the 1dx, and I bet a whole bunch of other cameras. My head hurts when I see "design flaw" and "we must find a solution". 

This comes to mind:

http://youtu.be/ovwxBrIBj1w

Some things are just too obvious to discuss..


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## mb66energy (Nov 14, 2014)

Klaus Kleber said:


> Just a warning.
> 
> When you insert your memory card be carefull.
> I managed to kill my brand new 7D MK2 today when i was puting a memory card in it.



This can happen if someone uses a brute force method to insert a card - but this can happen too if e.g. the guiding structure and the pins of the connector aren't aligned properly.

My personal "assessment" lead me to the conclusion (for 20D, 40D which have CF card slots) to use the USB port for the download of the image files. Maybe vastly slower than a modern card reader but USB is designed for plug and play and can be found on many devices which are used by "untrained personnel" -- it is designed for moderate misuse while CF cards are designed for "specialists". Reparing a "4 connector + shielding" port than repairing a socket inside the camera with 32 + x pins ...

But the 7Dii has - if my memory serves well - a small breakout board with the card slots. So repair will not  be a procedure like "changing main board with sensor, processors etc.".

SD cards -- too after my own "assessment" -- are less prone to user errors due to just nine contact surfaces, no filigrane pins on the connector and developped for the "common user".

So good luck that your card board was a lemon and if Canon says it was "mishandling", hopefully service and material cost will be low - Best, Michael


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## FEBS (Nov 14, 2014)

Khristo said:


> It is a Japanese company that should know all about Poka-yoke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke
> 
> Design fault - yes I'd go that far. They certainly should have developed a design to prevent incorrect insertion if reasonably possible.
> Warranty? More debatable.



Khristo,

Poka-yoke should be used. However no rule or legal statements tells you to do. Even the example in your link of an network attachment plug does not apply to that rule. You can push the plug 180degrees turned into the connector. I did once have a customer who did that. It cost him at that time a new network connection board for his computer. 

The problem however for the CF card is that the dimensions of width and length are the almost the same, and the connections are made on the widest side. Sony memory cards are better designed on this mechanical dimensions. Only the smallest side can be entered into the device/reader. So this is not really a problem of Canon but of the complete industry that created a CF standard that is not fully solving the problem of entering a card in the wrong way. I agree that the CF standard is the real responsible for this, however I think you never will be followed in court for this as the complete industry is using that standard.


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## FEBS (Nov 14, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> CF cards should not go in backwards. There is a wide groove on one side and a narrow one on the other to prevent them from going in wrong.
> 
> Either it was forced in, or the card slot was defective. Pins do get bent though.
> 
> Either way, its a warranty item.



That groove does not solve the problem. The other side is smaller then the side with the connections. It's not turned 180 degrees but only 90 degrees. Because you put in a smaller object into the slot, the pins can be damaged if you push hard.

No, this is no way a warranty item. No court will follow you on this. Otherwise every user will have a new camera at the end of the warranty period.


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## Khristo (Nov 14, 2014)

Hey FEBS,

CF design does not seem to provide the best opportunities for fool proofing, but there is some, such as the "thicker" edge on the non-pin side.

Having got home to try for myself, I think there is reasonably adequate protection against improper insertion. You can get it in rotated 90 degrees, but you still have to push a bit and it certainly does not "feel right". This is exactly the same on my 5D3 as my old 40D, so it would seem to be a very standard set up for Canon. I'd doubt the 7D2 would be different, but if so it would be interesting to know. 

Based on that though I'd have to call "operator error" - sorry Klaus


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## FEBS (Nov 14, 2014)

Khristo said:


> Hey FEBS,
> 
> CF design does not seem to provide the best opportunities for fool proofing, but there is some, such as the "thicker" edge on the non-pin side.
> 
> ...



I will try to compare this evening on this issue the 1Dx, 5D3, 7D2 and the 7D


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## bbreitenauer (Nov 14, 2014)

It is not to believe! I think, we are in times, where a user guide is necessary for each handling.


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## DominoDude (Nov 14, 2014)

Klaus_Kleber said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Klaus Kleber said:
> ...



Not trying to say that you are stupid, but it's a stupid mistake/behaviour. The distinction is crucial. We can all F* up - I certainly have from time to time - but as a responsible adult I should take the consequences for my actions, and not try to shove the cost for my mistake onto others.


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## AmselAdans (Nov 14, 2014)

Well, design guru Don Norman tells us that such an event is not a showcase of the user's stupidity but of bad product design.
And I agree. The CF cards (or the slot or both) should be designed in a way, that there is one, only one, way to insert it into the camera.
Even worse, there is -as shown- more than one way to insert the card and this can damage the entire camera instead of just not working.

To the "Pff, he should have been careful" people: Something as trivial as putting a memory card into a camera should require the least concencration and effort. As this is not the case, as you have to be careful, this further hints to bad design.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

Wow, this thread got a lot of attention...

While I love the CF card over other types of removable memory for performance and form factor, the fragile pin design is my only caveat/complaint. I'm an IT guy and I've used CF cards ever since they started. The pin design on CF cards is ancient. Almost nothing uses an exposed pin design like this anymore. (Remember IDE and SCSI hard drives?)

I wouldn't be too hard on the OP. This CAN happen. And Canon didn't design it, it's the CF standard.

The trick is to simply take your time when inserting and NEVER PUSH TOO HARD. If the card doesn't slide in like butter, don't force it. There is something wrong and forcing it will always end in regret!

Fortunately, I've never bent any pins in something important like a camera but I did bend pins in a reader one time. It was a cheap plastic reader that flexed a bit too much so the card could easily get out of alignment.


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 14, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Wow, this thread got a lot of attention...
> 
> The trick is to simply take your time when inserting and NEVER PUSH TOO HARD. If the card doesn't slide in like butter, don't force it. There is something wrong and forcing it will always end in regret!


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.........


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

Sportsgal501 said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, this thread got a lot of attention...
> ...



Yeah, one can read that any way they like!  Way to go *SportsGal*! I like your style! LOLOL!


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 14, 2014)

That really stynks about your camera. 

I hope you can get it fixed easily and inexpensively.

I try to limit my taking cards in and out of my camera. I use the USB cable almost exclusively so my big card never leaves the camera. 

Good luck with it.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 14, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> CF cards should not go in backwards. There is a wide groove on one side and a narrow one on the other to prevent them from going in wrong.
> 
> Either it was forced in, or the card slot was defective. Pins do get bent though.
> 
> Either way, its a warranty item.



Why? I just don't see that at all. Sure if the card board has defective manufacturing tolerances but that really is pushing it, but why do you think it is a warranty claim if it was forced in?


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## Sportsgal501 (Nov 14, 2014)

Film cameras were less complicated,simply paying attention and putting on LIGHTS would help with the insertion of memory cards apparently. And it's not a warranty issue because the card nor the pin was defective, just carelessness.


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 14, 2014)

Klaus_Kleber said:


> PS: nice forum where you get insulted as stupid by so many people just because you want to warn them. Makes a good impression what kind of people Canon shooters are. :-[



Unfortunately, it seems to be a core value with some here at CR. 

On the Internet Tubes, common courtesy is like common sense: It ain't very common.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm puzzled about the warranty thing. It's a brand new camera. It never hurts to ask about the warranty. Then Canon will say yes or no. Why does anyone care either way?

IMHO, while the CF card slot design is a CF standard design (not Canon's), it has had the same design weakness since it was released over a decade ago. It doesn't resist careless penetration. I think Canon could have perhaps designed the slot so the tolerance leans toward tighter slot size so as to help prevent a mindless insertion without a bit more resistance/difficulty. I just tried to insert a CF card in the 5D3 sideways and it wasn't very hard (based on the minimum force needed to penetrate the slot). So the 5D3 can be easily damaged by a careless penetration as well.

Something I have done for years that I think helps prevent me from sticking it in wrong... painters' tape on the CF card. I put a tape tab on each of my CF cards that hangs off the back edge a bit. When I pull out and insert another card, I move the tape tab around to the pin edge and fold it over. This reminds me that this CF card is spent and can't be used again for this shoot. Now that I think about it, it also helps make sure that I am inserting the right way too.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 14, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Klaus_Kleber said:
> 
> 
> > PS: nice forum where you get insulted as stupid by so many people just because you want to warn them. Makes a good impression what kind of people Canon shooters are. :-[
> ...



What utter nonsense.

How would you respond to this story?

_I was taking some product images of a dishwasher the other day and I noticed my new camera had some smudges on it, so I ran it through a quick rinse cycle, now the On/Off button doesn't work, I am going to send it back and you all can pay for it, it is still under warranty, I only mention this as a heads up._

Save me from myself, it isn't my fault, everybody should compensate me for my stupidity, blah blah blah....

I had no interest in the thread other than why the OP thought he would _"just send it back. Im pretty sure i will get a replacement without any trouble."_. Because we all pay for that kind of 'repair' and it seems a clear feeling of entitlement with so many people nowadays.

I am all for good service, but when we expect things like this we all pay, and I don't want to contribute to fix other peoples stupidity, I never expect others to contribute to mine.


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## FEBS (Nov 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> I am all for good service, but when we expect things like this we all pay, and I don't want to contribute to fix other peoples stupidity, I never expect others to contribute to mine.



+1
Exact what I think there about. 
That sounds hard, but it is the only reasonable solution, otherwise prices will be blown up that high that almost no one can pay anymore.

What I do break, I will pay.


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## AcutancePhotography (Nov 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> I had no interest in the thread other than why the OP thought he would _"just send it back. Im pretty sure i will get a replacement without any trouble."_. Because we all pay for that kind of 'repair' and it seems a clear feeling of entitlement with so many people nowadays.



The point is that it is possible to disagree with a poster without resorting to insulting them or calling them names.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 14, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I had no interest in the thread other than why the OP thought he would _"just send it back. Im pretty sure i will get a replacement without any trouble."_. Because we all pay for that kind of 'repair' and it seems a clear feeling of entitlement with so many people nowadays.
> ...



I agree with that, but saying somebody did something stupid is not the same as calling them stupid. We all do stupid things, well I know I do, and I have no problem with people saying 'that was a stupid thing to do', interestingly, for once, I am in the clear here, it was jrista that first used the word 'stupidity' in the thread and that was long after I raised my question about the expectation of a warranty claim.


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## photofill (Nov 14, 2014)

One of the articles I read that was reviewing the camera expressed how the CF card reader 'board' is separate now, and easier to replace because of bend pins. I wonder if Canon had issues with this during the testing of the camera.


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## DominoDude (Nov 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Klaus_Kleber said:
> ...


*looks around for the thumbs up button*
Well spoken, Private!
I hate to pay for my mistakes, but I would hate even more to have others pay for them.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



This sounds like a familiar argument I have occasionally with my wife.

"Don't you call me stupid!"
"I didn't call _you_ stupid, I just said that was a stupid thing to do."

Feel free to substitute whatever word you like for the word 'stupid'. The argument still ends up going the same way and I am usually in the dog house regardless. So the lesson here is that perception is 9/10 of the law...


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2014)

Klaus_Kleber said:


> Makes a good impression what kind of people Canon shooters are. :-[



Are Canon shooters the kind of people that damage their gear through carelessness, and then expect others to pay for their mistakes? If so, I guess you've come to the right place...


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## privatebydesign (Nov 14, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
> ...



Good point!

But if we can't use the correct words in the correct way what point is there to any of this? If we stop offering our opinions in a grammatically correct manner because it might be misinterpreted by somebody as an insult how do we communicate?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 14, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Klaus_Kleber said:
> 
> 
> > Makes a good impression what kind of people Canon shooters are. :-[
> ...


 
I might have missed a comment?

If the card went in backwards to the point of bending a pin, something is defective in the camera. The guides for the CF card are bad or something related. Its not possible to slide one completely in with little force, or even strong finger force. I'd suspect that the card was inserted properly, but a pin was slightly out of alignment, and there was enough play in the mechanism plus the card pin location tolerance to catch the pin. That's why I don't like the CF interface. It existed before Canon started using it, and was a de facto standard. It also violates the standard rule for design of electrical connections developed at least 70 years ago when bent pins could cause fires and aircraft crashes. Never put pins on the power side of a interface, if there is no other possible way, do a bent pin analysis to insure that no single pin bent over can cause a short circuit or other damage that would ruin a product. That usually means isolating power carrying pins from the others with unused pins between. 

The card interface was obviously designed by someone who had no experience with faults due to bent pins, and was convinced it was impossible. I know the type, I've had to battle subcontractors to force them to redesign.

I'd get rid of the card for sure, its likely a part of the problem. Hold location tolerances are difficult to control during manufacturing, and they have a way of moving after production due to the build up of stresses in the plastic. I've experienced that issue where parts were perfect, but the connector holes and even the pin side moved. We finally tracked it down to a cleaning fluid used in production that caused a super duper expensive engineering plastic relieve its stress, and the holes actually moved without any cracking. Measuring the true position of the holes to find this was another fun job, but it was something we routinely did to check each batch of parts that was going into Space.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

Yes. Using a square design was the first flaw. Using exposed pins was the second.

This train of thought reminds me of why heavy iron manhole covers are round....

If SD cards had the same or better performance, I might like them better than CF. But the larger size of CF is easier to manage and the performance is more robust. I've always thought of CF as like SCSI and Firewire. Much better performance from a transfer protocol designed to move data efficiently and reliably. SD is more common but slower. It definitely has a better form factor so it's more popular. (But SD is a bit too small for my taste.)


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Klaus_Kleber said:
> ...



I assume that the card was inserted not backwards, but sideways (rotated 90° from normal). There's no design safeguard against that, the card can drop into the slot freely (easily confirmed by partially inserting it sideways..._carefully!_). Bryan at TDP reported doing that with his 7DII, and fixing the pin himself. When the link to TDP was mentioned, the OP lamented not knowing about that sooner, so I infer he made the same user error.


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## schill (Nov 14, 2014)

I just tried putting a card in sideways and it felt different enough to me that I don't think I'd normally do it accidentally but I can imagine it happening.

I don't remember hearing about people doing this in the past. It's much, much easier to do with the Type II CF slot that most cameras have. If anything, it should be much less likely to happen with the 7D2 than it was with the 7D which supports Type II cards.

An aside: The move away from supporting Type II cards has now rendered my old microdrive obsolete, I guess.


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## lilmsmaggie (Nov 14, 2014)

My apologies to the OP and anyone else that may have construed my comments as inflammatory, insulting or in anyway demeaning. I was simply attempting to point out the potential issue of attempting to have the camera repaired under warranty. It was not my intent to infer that someone was stupid.

As someone pointed out with a retailer such as Amazon; I believe its at the discretion of the retailer to accept returned merchandise during the warranty period but in this particular instance, I don't think sending the camera back to the manufacturer is gonna fly.

Not sure since I've never looked into it: how a return policy arrangement works between retailer and manufacturer. They may have some leeway in accepting returns and being reimbursed by a manufacturer up to a point. I've had repairs completed on my vehicle that were not "technically" covered by the warranty. However, the dealership probably absorbs a certain amount of work in the interest of Goodwill and customer service.

Hopefully, there will be a satisfactory outcome for the OP as a result of this experience.


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## danski0224 (Nov 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> It didn't go in backwards it went in sideways. There is nothing to prevent you from doing that if you try. It is a design flaw. The contacts should be on the narrower edge to prevent that. Such as the SD card. There may have been good reasons why it was designed that way at the time, but if somebody put that design on my desk today I'd reject it in a heartbeat.



I do not own a 7DII.

That said, any other Canon body I have used that uses a CF card will not allow full insertion of the card if the female end is rotated 180* and insertion is attempted.

Yes, the CF card goes in a little bit, but it stops. All I can muster is about 1/3 insetion if it is attempted incorrectly.

It is impossible to insert the CF card with the female end up (holes out). The end opposite the holes is wider in the narrow dimension.

There isn't much of a visible difference in the slots on the narrow sides of the CF card, so one of them may be worn on the card itself or the guide in the camera is out of tolerance.

I suspect that it is much more likely to insert the card on an angle, bending the pins in the camera. I damaged a card reader this way.

For the OP- 

I would certainly try to get the repair warrantied without any lengthy details or "fabrications". It very well could be a design problem and not your fault.


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## pknight (Nov 14, 2014)

C'mon. Saying that because the CF card _can_ be inserted sideways there is a design flaw is nonsense. That's like saying that Nissan did not design my car correctly because if I drive it off a cliff it won't run any more. You can probably destroy most things by using them in ways that were not intended, much less in ways that you have been warned not to do (i.e., RTFM). 

This was an accident. An unintentional mistake. But it _was_ a mistake, and not on Canon's part, but on the user's. This does not make the user stupid, just unlucky. It just ain't Canon's fault.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 14, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> If SD cards had the same or better performance, I might like them better than CF.



New SD cards (i.e. newest standard, hq card) could have absolutely sufficient speed for 99% of purposes. It's just that Canon chose to continue building their pro cameras around cf, so they see little reason to improve sd - resulting in the hilariously low write speeds Canon controllers have.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> The CF has a flawed physical design...



So you're saying SanDisk or Lexar broke his camera. I smell a lawsuit... :


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## privatebydesign (Nov 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> pknight said:
> 
> 
> > C'mon. Saying that because the CF card _can_ be inserted sideways there is a design flaw is nonsense. That's like saying that Nissan did not design my car correctly because if I drive it off a cliff it won't run any more. You can probably destroy most things by using them in ways that were not intended, much less in ways that you have been warned not to do (i.e., RTFM).
> ...



No, it would be like you put your keys in the wrong way round and broke it off, now you need to get towed and get a new ignition switch, oh, and I expect it to be done for free, just because.

The car or camera are not a write off, they both just need fixing. My point is, who would expect the car dealer to pay for the new ignition switch?


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## Viggo (Nov 14, 2014)

When people can't smash a nail into a pile of cow droppings without ruining both, what do you expect?


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## tphillips63 (Nov 14, 2014)

Since it happens, I guess it could be considered a design 'flaw', but I have never even accidentally tried to put a CF into any slot sideways, maybe flipped the other way but not upside down or sideways.
Even with my old eyes that need a lot more light than in the younger days have I done that.


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## Keith_Reeder (Nov 14, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> On the Internet Tubes, common courtesy is like common sense: It ain't very common.



Don't do that - you're defending and reinforcing dishonesty, carelessness, and the nauseating habit of abrogating personal responsibility.


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## Keith_Reeder (Nov 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> I am all for good service, but when we expect things like this we all pay, and I don't want to contribute to fix other peoples stupidity, I never expect others to contribute to mine.



...Is the correct answer.


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## Keith_Reeder (Nov 14, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> If the card went in backwards



It _will not_ - I've just checked my 7D Mk II, and it is _impossible_ to put a CF card in backwards or upside down without a _huge_ amount of force (if even then), and without being able to tell that something is going *horribly* wrong.


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## Keith_Reeder (Nov 14, 2014)

pknight said:


> C'mon. Saying that because the CF card _can_ be inserted sideways there is a design flaw is nonsense.



Precisely.



> This does not make the user stupid, just unlucky.



Debatable: it feels _so_ different putting the card in sideways (again, just tested it) that it's _obvious_ something's not right.


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## zim (Nov 14, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> GraFax said:
> 
> 
> > The CF has a flawed physical design...
> ...



Yeh, thankfully the 7D2 doesn't have cruise control


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## ifp (Nov 14, 2014)

pknight said:


> C'mon. Saying that because the CF card _can_ be inserted sideways there is a design flaw is nonsense. That's like saying that Nissan did not design my car correctly because if I drive it off a cliff it won't run any more. You can probably destroy most things by using them in ways that were not intended, much less in ways that you have been warned not to do (i.e., RTFM).
> 
> This was an accident. An unintentional mistake. But it _was_ a mistake, and not on Canon's part, but on the user's. This does not make the user stupid, just unlucky. It just ain't Canon's fault.



I would say it's not a design flaw, per se, since I'm sure Canon is aware of the possibility of CF cards being inserted sideways. It's much more likely a design choice and it was decided that it was less expensive to go the route they chose and deal with warranty claims (whether denied or accepted) and associated loss of goodwill.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

1st, if only the lawyers would fix this, we could all enjoy reading a lengthy written warning on the door of every camera card slot door.

2nd, a design flaw exists if the design allows a failure. Period. Good design requires the accurate prediction of user error or the possibility of a failure for any reason. This is typically determined by sufficient testing during the prototype stage. So IMO, the CF package design has a flaw because a failure (sideways insertion) can easily occur through user error, thus it is a fault prone design. This is why I mentioned the manhole cover. If manhole covers were not round, people would be hurt, killed or maimed by falling manhole covers due to user error. It doesn't matter the reason, the outcome would be the same and the design would need to be changed to prevent injury. It's just that simple.

A good design doesn't require any caveats that sound like, "Just don't do that and everything will be fine!". You know, like pressurized doors on airplanes, space capsules, etc...


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## privatebydesign (Nov 14, 2014)

GraFax said:


> The only other slot I can think of which is designed for inserting the long side is a toaster. The toaster is probably the most dangerous household item ever invented. If you invented and tried to market the toaster today they would probably hold you over for psychiatric evaluation. Just sayin



Kinda pathetic really, people are so dumb we have to worry about them using a toaster, I give up................


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