# Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 112. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.



## ahsanford (Aug 14, 2015)

Many were wondering how much of a retraction/backpeddling effort DXO would have to make once lenses they have cudgeled for lack of Perceptual MPix would fare _when a 50 MP sensor was now sitting behind them_. 

This, of course, depended on what form of accountability DXO took in this endeavor:

Option 1) Use the same scoring algorithms, retest existing lenses on a 5DS/5DS R and watch Canon catapult over Nikon and Sony glass in their rankings.

Option 2) Pull a classic DXO move and declare it 'time to make a change' and either abolish aggregate lens scores or normalize those scores to the resolution of the sensor it was tested on.

Option 3) Turtle and hide until a7R II models arrive. 

See subject. Looks like Option 3 is well underway.

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

Where things stand with the 5DS.


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## ahsanford (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*


How our terrible, horrible, no good, very bad Canon lenses rank today...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

I believe that they shut down for 2 weeks every summer, so its going to slow things down.


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## dcm (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

It will be interesting to see how quickly a7r II scores for sensor and lenses appear. Maybe there will be a similar drought. Maybe not. Particularly for Canon lenses mounted on the Sony body 

Not that I really care...


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## zim (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

Lens profiles are already available for the 5ds/r within dxo optics pro so they have data, I'd agree with your option 3 conclusion

http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro/supported-cameras


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 20, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

There testing methods are seriously flawed anyway reading their scores will only make you angry so dont bother. 

If we tested the way they do we would never maximise the "system" performance and anyone worth their salt would know that. Were testing for billboard size stills and event screen size projection and below so any imperfection will be noticed.


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## ahsanford (Sep 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

GREAT NEWS EVERYONE!

DXO finally got around to testing Canon lenses again.

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-50mm-F1.8-STM-lens-review-Thrifty-fifty/Measurements-Very-good-optical-performance

_...but they are still using the 5D3._ [cue laugh track, cue Price is Right contestant fail music]

- A


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## Sporgon (Sep 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> GREAT NEWS EVERYONE!
> 
> DXO finally got around to testing Canon lenses again.
> 
> ...



Odd. Transmission and chromatic abberation have improved over the old lens, presumably because of the new coatings. Distortion is fractionally better, yet vignetting much worse. Except..........

Photozone have the vignetting on the old lens fully open at 3 stops - worse than the STM lens and over a third more than dxo managed to record for the old lens. I can't believe that vignetting varies much from copy to copy, and my experience with the 1.8II lens is that photozone got it right. 

So that is another very strange dxo measurement, and it leads the new, much improved STM lens to have a lower 'score' than the old one.


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

We all wait impatiently for these new tests because we all know that sensor's resolution has nothing to do with sensor's evaluation: sensor resolution is relevant only when evaluating lenses' performance, right?


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## ahsanford (Sep 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 35. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



JohanCruyff said:


> We all wait impatiently for these new tests because we all know that sensor's resolution has nothing to do with sensor's evaluation: sensor resolution is relevant only when evaluating lenses' performance, right?



That, sir, is the delicious paradox of DXO. The DXO works in mysterious ways.

It's like drinking that older crazy dangerous version of absinthe or watching Fox News as anything other than a source of entertainment -- folks know they shouldn't do it, _but they do anyway_.

- A


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 3, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 56. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

Just some speculation on my part...

I think they need to re-baseline their entire database, which currently is using 36MP as a maximum P-Mpix value. I get the impression that they use weighted percentages in their combined scores so they need a maximum in order to assign a performance in %. So all scores will need to be adjusted to presumably 50MP. 

I think they are waiting for an official announcement from Nikon as to whether they will launch something higher than the 5Ds/R or whether they will just adopt the Sony 42MP sensor.

If Nikon remains below 50MP then I guess they'll publish all the data with 50MP being the new baseline. This should be stable for the next few years. If they do need to go higher than 50MP then it makes sense to do it all at once rather than publish now then have to redo in 6months time again. I'm not gonna mention any names, but some companies have product release cycles which are much shorter than Canon's.

As I said this is just my speculation, I might be way off.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 70. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

70 days since the 5DS was reviewed by DXO. 

DXO remains a tight ship on how lenses actually perform on that rig. _Zero_ lens tests on that rig have been reported.

- A


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 70. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> 70 days since the 5DS was reviewed by DXO.
> 
> DXO remains a tight ship on how lenses actually perform on that rig. _Zero_ lens tests on that rig have been reported.
> 
> - A


 
DXO certainly aims to make very accurate reviews, and accurateness needs a lot of time.


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## Phenix205 (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 70. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

DXO reminds me of two people in real life who really enjoy the attention and controversy: our dearest Mr. Trump and Mr. Rockwell. How boring life is while they're not in the world.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 70. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



Phenix205 said:


> DXO reminds me of two people in real life who really enjoy the attention and controversy: our dearest Mr. Trump and Mr. Rockwell. How boring life is while they're not in the world.



The silence from them is pretty deafening. I just want to see one lens ranked in the cellar in their rating system skyrocket up to the top just because more pixels are sitting behind it now. 

- A


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## quod (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 70. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

Zzzzzzzzzz.... Who cares?


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## Don Haines (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 70. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

A lens test is a lens test. If changing the camera body affects the score, then you are doing it wrong.

This is what happens when you dumb things down..... you get stupidity.....


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## ritholtz (Sep 18, 2015)

*DXO replies regarding Metamerism score difference to prove*

Some one on dpr followed up DPR about their numbers. DXO has a trademark for generating worthless numbers.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56459976


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: DXO replies regarding Metamerism score difference to prove*



ritholtz said:


> Some one on dpr followed up DPR about their numbers. DXO has a trademark for generating worthless numbers.
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56459976



Of course. I certainly do not take them seriously, but their ranking system is outright inflammatory and I'd like them to simply follow their procedure, re-test one 'wretched' Canon lens in front of a 50 MP sensor and watch it rocket up their charts.

Please don't mistake this for fanboyism, I don't need to see that my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II isn't the 732nd best lens any longer. I just want to see a broken rating system deliver a wildly different result on the same lens.

- A


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## chromophore (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 70. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

If other photographers didn't put so much stock in DxO's random number generator, then I wouldn't care that they have the biases that they do. If other photo blogs and forums didn't excitedly announce sensor and lens "scores" each time a new product is released and "tested," then it wouldn't matter what they say.

But DxO promotes itself as some kind of "objective" testing organization, and makes outrageously false claims even when faced with abundant evidence to the contrary. They make money off of deliberate lies and deception. They make a mockery of scientific and statistical methodology by pretending to be scientific.

There are comparisons that we *know* are true because we can see it with our own eyes. And then there's DxO BS and bias and hypocrisy. Even KR doesn't put himself out there as if he's making objective assessments.

It's not that I care if Sony or Nikon fans use DxO scores to justify the superiority of their camera systems of choice. Conversely, I don't care if Canon fans bash DxO for the same reason. As a scientist, what I care about is that *anybody even believes* that what DxO does is scientific, because that to me is not a reflection on Sony, Nikon, Canon, or any other camera/lens manufacturer, but on science itself, and on the way people who lack the ability to think critically about data are so easily misled by the trappings of DxO's pseudoscientific babble.


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## zim (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: DXO replies regarding Metamerism score difference to prove*



ahsanford said:


> ritholtz said:
> 
> 
> > Some one on dpr followed up DPR about their numbers. DXO has a trademark for generating worthless numbers.
> ...



Yes but option 3 is well under way so it's just not going to happen.

Anyone ever tried emailing them and asking! ;D


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## ahsanford (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

86 days since the 5DS/5DS R sensor scores. Zero lenses re-tested.

Even the A7R II has been out for a while. One wonders if DXO won't re-test any lenses until SoNikon finally have a _greater than_ 50 MP rig. :

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> 86 days since the 5DS/5DS R sensor scores. Zero lenses re-tested.
> 
> Even the A7R II has been out for a while. One wonders if DXO won't re-test any lenses until SoNikon finally have a _greater than_ 50 MP rig. :
> 
> - A



I wonder if they are just done re-testing lenses every time a new body comes out.

With Sony releasing uncompressed 14-bit RAW firmware this month for the A7Rii, they were asked when they'll retest. They said "*Unfortunately, we do not retest gear, since it would be too time-consuming, and because of other priorities on the road map*."

Perhaps that extends to lenses (in particular strapping them to every compatible body), which would likely take far more time than merely retesting a single body. 

Prediction: only new canon EF lenses will be tested on the 5DS/R, and only new Nikon FX lenses will be tested on whatever replaces the D810.


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## ahsanford (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



3kramd5 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 86 days since the 5DS/5DS R sensor scores. Zero lenses re-tested.
> ...



Thoughts:

1) http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-7D-Mark-II---Lenses-tested  --> There are a _boatload_ of pre-7D2 lenses that were re-tested on it after it came out. 

2) DXO can't reasonably hold the high ground that sensors matter with lenses and offer lens + sensor combinations like they have and then suddenly withhold that information. They have always been the brute force 'do it all' review house, so saying 'nah, it will be hard' is a little hollow coming from them. 

3) LensTip and PhotoZone have (to my knowledge) both comitted to retesting Canon glass on the 5DS rigs. DXO surely dwarfs them for size / capabilities, but one would think that if the smaller sites are going the extra distance, why shouldn't the big boys?

4) I hear you on the 14 bit comment, but perhaps they meant that they don't retest _sensors_ after they do a sensor review. It is pretty rare to see a sensor get a quality upgrade after it's launched like this.

Just my opinion, of course. You raise fair points.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> Thoughts:
> 
> 1) http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-7D-Mark-II---Lenses-tested --> There are a _boatload_ of pre-7D2 lenses that were re-tested on it after it came out.



Are there any cameras newer than the 7D2 that have had the lens treatment? No 5DS/R, no A7Rii. Maybe it's new policy. I hope not.



ahsanford said:


> 2) DXO can't reasonably hold the high ground



Just stop right there 




ahsanford said:


> 4) I hear you on the 14 bit comment, but perhaps they meant that they don't retest _sensors_ after they do a sensor review. It is pretty rare to see a sensor get a quality upgrade after it's launched like this.



Certainly, and that statement was specifically made in reference to firmware changing camera output. However, the stated reasoning is *time*, and given the oodles and oodles of EF lenses, including Canon, Sigma, Tamron, Zeiss, etc., it stands to reason that re-testing them all for each new body may be a relic.

I dunno.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

DxO Optics Pro corrects for lens softness, CA, vignetting, etc., with the corrections based on empirical data. When a new camera comes out, they generate those empirical data by testing that new camera with all the supported lenses. So, I'd argue that the tests are done and the data are available. What may be lacking is time to format all those data for display in DxOMark...if not time, motivation?


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## ahsanford (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



3kramd5 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 2) DXO can't reasonably hold the high ground
> ...



Ha! Nice.

You raise fair points about re-testing everything being an untenable position. 

PhotoZone and LensTip are choking on that right now. PZ got their hands on a 5DS R but have only tested two lenses so far, and to my knowledge, LT hasn't posted a single lens review on the 50 MP rigs yet.

Perhaps they only retest more popular, staple lenses of the last 5 years, but they have to do something. How will we compare two opposing lenses that came out on either side of a migration to a new test sensor? I want to compare the 35L II to the Sigma 35 Art, or a new 'III' version against the 'II' lens it replaces, which might be 5-10 years apart. I think they have to try to do this... _somehow_.

If nothing else, the 'III' to 'II' example above helps Canon sell lenses and maintain price. Perhaps Canon and Nikon themselves might loan these lenses out and encourage retesting as a partnership to keep interest in new bodies and lenses as high as possible.

- A


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*

Take a look at the time period between D810 sensor testing and publication of D810 lens recommendations. The lens database update took a long time.


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## ahsanford (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



neuroanatomist said:


> DxO Optics Pro corrects for lens softness, CA, vignetting, etc., with the corrections based on empirical data. When a new camera comes out, they generate those empirical data by testing that new camera with all the supported lenses. So, I'd argue that the tests are done and the data are available. What may be lacking is time to format all those data for display in DxOMark...if not time, motivation?



Yep. This comment came up earlier: if it's in the software, they've tested the lens on that body.

So, yes, Neuro, you are spot on. Why _haven't_ they reported this information? 

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



neuroanatomist said:


> DxO Optics Pro corrects for lens softness, CA, vignetting, etc., with the corrections based on empirical data. When a new camera comes out, they generate those empirical data by testing that new camera with all the supported lenses. So, I'd argue that the tests are done and the data are available. What may be lacking is time to format all those data for display in DxOMark...if not time, motivation?



Or the MARK side of the organization is separate from the software side? I kinda doubt it, but you never know. 

I always thought the MARK was just a conglomeration of the data they generated in support of their software package, but it seems to have taken on the primary role at DxO, with testing being a selling point in and of itself. Maybe now the DxO One will be kingpin in the hierarchy - they can't resist popping it up every time you browse to a DxO domain...

It's all very strange.


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## ahsanford (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



StudentOfLight said:


> Take a look at the time period between D810 sensor testing and publication of D810 lens recommendations. The lens database update took a long time.



I noticed that, but I though the 'recommendations' list was more of a roll-up of _all_ the lens testing when it was done. (That takes ages, I'm sure.)

Does DXO post individual dates on when a specific lens is tested on a specific body? I can't seem to find that in their lens reviews.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> Does DXO post individual dates on when a specific lens is tested on a specific body? I can't seem to find that in their lens reviews.
> 
> - A



I looked as well. Could be in the source code but I didn't bother checking.

Maybe rather than release data in piecemeal (i.e. on a lens-for-lens basis) they load it all at once (i.e. on a camera basis).


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## raptor3x (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> Yep. This comment came up earlier: if it's in the software, they've tested the lens on that body.



Do we actually know this for sure? I can't see any reason they couldn't interpolate corrections from one body to another.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



raptor3x said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Yep. This comment came up earlier: if it's in the software, they've tested the lens on that body.
> ...



Given how they come up with "print size," I wouldn't be surprised if they use a math model (perhaps using linear inter- or extrapolation). But that would take almost no time at all, so again: where's the beef?


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



3kramd5 said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


Without measurements the strength of the AA filter effect is unknown. 

e.g. The 5D-III and 1Ds-III have quite similar resolution but the 5D-III produces a sharper image due to the weaker AA filter. Similarly, comparing 24MP Nikon D3X and the D750, the D750 produces sharper images.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



StudentOfLight said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



But if you characterize the effect of AA when testing a body and relate it via some coefficient in your math model, you can wave your hands and say "here's the number" when publishing lens data.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



3kramd5 said:


> ...you can wave your hands and say "here's the number" when publishing lens data.



That's probably the most accurate description to date of DxOMark's testing methodology.


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## raptor3x (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



3kramd5 said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



I just checked and there are a handful of lens/body combinations that are available in the DxO Optics Module database that are marked as no measurements available in the DxO lens score database. I think that it's very likely that the lens module are generated by interpolated data and honestly I can't see any good reason why that wouldn't be a perfectly reasonable approach.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



dilbert said:


> Why do people care about the number of re-tested lenses?
> 
> With the number of insults hurled in the direction of DxO it is surprising to see that people care about this.



It's because they marry the data to bodies. If they tested them on an optical bench re-testing would be irrelevant.


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## ahsanford (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



dilbert said:


> Why do people care about the number of re-tested lenses?



Because DXO states that identical non-exclusive lenses (Sigma Art, Zeiss Otus) are 'best' or 'disappointing' depending on how many pixels are sitting behind them. 

I don't want to see EF mount glass heretofore ranked as average or poor suddenly leap to the top of their rankings now that 50 MP are sitting behind them... _but I do want to see DXO try to explain that. :
_
Keep in mind that it's not fanboyism motivating my ire nearly so much as the gall they have to rank lenses across different sensors and mounts. That needs to end. They should report data and let people interpret it.

- A


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## ahsanford (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



3kramd5 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Why do people care about the number of re-tested lenses?
> ...



Exactly, but why would a sensor testing company run a test that sensors have nothing to do with? 

That would be _silly_.

- A


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## Don Haines (Oct 2, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



dilbert said:


> Why do people care about the number of re-tested lenses?
> 
> With the number of insults hurled in the direction of DxO it is surprising to see that people care about this.



It's because their lens testing is not lens testing....


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 4, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



raptor3x said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...


I believe that resolution is subject to a quantization error. Interpolation is one thing, extrapolation is another. 50MP is higher than anything previously tested and Canon lenses have not been tested with a AA-free/AA-cancellation sensor so no hard data to base potential extrapolation on.

I think this is why a large number of lenses need to be re-tested. Some of the more exotic lenses might be difficult to get ahold of so might not necessarily be retested due to backorders or non-stocking in rental houses, but popular lenses like the 2.8 zooms and the classic primes should be re-tested and not necessarily left up to interpolation/extrapolation.


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## ahsanford (Oct 29, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*


Good news, gang: DXO finally got to testing a brand new lens, the Sigma 24-35 f/2 Art!

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Sigma-24-35mm-F2-DG-HSM-Art-Canon-mount-review-Redefining-expectations

I'm so glad they tested it on their highest resolution EF-mount rig,* the 5D Mark III*.

They are still withholding 5DS / 5DS R lens testing. Wow.

#dxo #fairandbalanced 

- A


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## zim (Oct 29, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> Good news, gang: DXO finally got to testing a brand new lens, the Sigma 24-35 f/2 Art!
> 
> http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Sigma-24-35mm-F2-DG-HSM-Art-Canon-mount-review-Redefining-expectations
> 
> ...



Maybe they are waiting for a new sensor 'fabrication' line to be installed


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 29, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> Good news, gang: DXO finally got to testing a brand new lens, the Sigma 24-35 f/2 Art!
> 
> http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Sigma-24-35mm-F2-DG-HSM-Art-Canon-mount-review-Redefining-expectations
> 
> ...


Nikon D810:
a) Sensor test published: 2014/07/24	
b) Lens re-testing published: 2014/10/29

(b)-(a) = 97 days

#dxo #fairlyclose #notmuchlonger


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 29, 2015)

I'd be happy to wait a couple more weeks if they are also including the new Tamron lenses as well as the kickass new 35mm f/1.4 L II in the rating system. I think the new 35L II will dethrone the Otus lenses with its phenomenal wide open performance. 

Hopefully the 35L II won't be to badly hamstrung by the fact that it closes down to f/22 vs the Otus lenses that only close down to f/16. No doubt there is a difference between averaging performance between "f/1.4-f/22" vs "f/1.4-f/16".


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## ahsanford (Oct 29, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> I'd be happy to wait a couple more weeks if they are also including the new Tamron lenses as well as the kickass new 35mm f/1.4 L II in the rating system. I think the new 35L II will dethrone the Otus lenses with its phenomenal wide open performance.
> 
> Hopefully the 35L II won't be to badly hamstrung by the fact that it closes down to f/22 vs the Otus lenses that only close down to f/16. No doubt there is a difference between averaging performance between "f/1.4-f/22" vs "f/1.4-f/16".



I don't care about dethroning 'bests' at a site whose methods I do not respect. I just need one staple Canon pro lens, say the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, to be retested. We all know that is an excellent lens, but sure, there are better lenses out there.

The issue, of course, is having the gall to globally rank a lens, which is folly. DXO should report its data, throw a ninja smoke bomb and disappear to allow photographers to interpret the results. But ranking lenses so comically heavily weighted on sensor resolution is nuts. 

I want DXO to have to explain why a lens that previously got a 23 now gets a 45 because there are now more pixels sitting behind it. That's really all I want. I'm not a kid who needs to see Canon ranked above everyone else -- that's nonsense. I just want to DXO have to live with their wretched lens rating system and try to explain it away.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 29, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



ahsanford said:


> They are still withholding 5DS / 5DS R lens testing. Wow.
> 
> #dxo #fairandbalanced
> 
> - A



Meanwhile, the anti-Sony bias continues as well (no love for the A7R2).

Or they just have a weird operation


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 29, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be happy to wait a couple more weeks if they are also including the new Tamron lenses as well as the kickass new 35mm f/1.4 L II in the rating system. I think the new 35L II will dethrone the Otus lenses with its phenomenal wide open performance.
> ...


It's not hard to explain, the answer lies in your own question. It gets a higher score because it can reproduce a test chart in higher quality with the given increased number of pixels.


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 29, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



3kramd5 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > They are still withholding 5DS / 5DS R lens testing. Wow.
> ...


A7s:
Sensor Test published: 17-June-2014 (499 days ago)
http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Sony-Alpha-7S-sensor-review-New-low-light-champ

Lens tests published: Not yet
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Sony/A7S---Lenses-tested


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## ahsanford (Oct 29, 2015)

*Re: Days since DXO sensor score of 5DS = 86. Number of lenses re-tested = 0.*



StudentOfLight said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Wow. I knew about the A7R II having a long queue time the 5DS is seeing, but had no idea _first gen _A7 hardware hadn't been tested yet. Perhaps they didn't want a 12 MP rig dragging down the standing of the Zeiss lenses?

- A


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## Larsskv (Oct 30, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be happy to wait a couple more weeks if they are also including the new Tamron lenses as well as the kickass new 35mm f/1.4 L II in the rating system. I think the new 35L II will dethrone the Otus lenses with its phenomenal wide open performance.
> ...



Lets face it. DXO will never publish anything that supports Canons superiority, not in lenses or otherwise. Dxo are anti-Canon. All their tests and the way they angle their articles support that. Hope I'm proven wrong. Soon.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 30, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Wow. I knew about the A7R II having a long queue time the 5DS is seeing, but had no idea _first gen _A7 hardware hadn't been tested yet. Perhaps they didn't want a 12 MP rig dragging down the standing of the Zeiss lenses?
> 
> - A



I presume it's merely not on their priorities list. Assigning motive or intent assumes FAR too much.




Larsskv said:


> Lets face it. *DXO will never publish anything that supports Canons superiority, not in lenses or otherwise*. Dxo are anti-Canon. All their tests and the way they angle their articles support that. Hope I'm proven wrong. Soon.


From: *Which lenses should you choose for your Canon EOS 5D Mark III? By Kevin Carter - Wednesday April 03 2013*


> When comparing the huge volume of data accumulated over measuring 147 lenses, one very surprising result was revealed. The average sharpness scores of the Canon EOS 5D Mark III matched the Nikon D800 and if the results were based solely on the mean average, the *Canon actually out-performed the Nikon.
> *
> When using specific lenses (such as the new Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM A) the Nikon can out resolve the Canon. However, *taken as a whole, the statistics reveal the EOS 5D MK III is capable of similar sharpness and of achieving a close DxOMark camera/lens score to the Nikon D800. Moreover, that’s despite the latter camera’s 60% extra pixel count*.


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## ahsanford (Nov 30, 2015)

And on the 144th day, DXO rested. EF lenses have been retested, but only on the 5DS R for some reason.

Details and some early thoughts here:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28477

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Dec 1, 2015)

dilbert said:


> What's really interesting is lenses such as the Otus 55/1.4.
> 
> 46/37 on 5DsR, 50/33 on D800.
> 
> ...




DxO includes sensor dynamic range as a parameter in their lens scoring algorithm, and tests in a light-environment very friendly to the D800. Dollars to donuts that's the difference.

Refer to this writeup:



> ...while the Canon 500mm mounted on 5D Mark III is sharper optically than the Nikon model mounted on D800, at the light levels used for DxOMark score (1/60, 150 Lux), the excellent dynamic range of the Nikon D800 sensor helps it improve the DxO Mark Score and accounts for the level-pegging. In lower light levels, the Canon would have the advantage



Also, while the aggregate score is dependent on sensor performance, the sharpness score is not.


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## ahsanford (Dec 1, 2015)

dilbert said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Dilbert, DXO is not original with that statement. Everyone says that (and I believe everyone knows that).

_But they still give an overall score and they still rank the lenses._ That's ultimately what needs to stop. I'd hate them much less if they did. 

- A


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