# Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 14, 2012)

```
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<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Specs?

</strong>I received this spec list this morning, and it seems to have also appeared at <a href="http://digicame-info.com/2012/09/eos-6d-20.html" target="_blank">Digicame-info</a>.</p>
<ul>
<li>A new 20mp sensor</li>
<li>Full Frame</li>
<li>4.5fps</li>
<li>ISO Range 100-25600</li>
<li>DIGIC5+</li>
<li>APS-C Sized body</li>
<li>Weathersealed</li>
<li>SD Card</li>
<li>Built-in Wifi & GPS</li>
<li>11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center.</li>
<li>3″ LCD</li>
<li>Full HD (1920×1080)</li>
<li>Available December 2012</li>
<li>Price: $2099 USD</li>
</ul>
<div><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/eos6d_f3.jpeg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-11211" title="eos6d_f3" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/eos6d_f3.jpeg" alt="" width="500" height="455" /></a></div>
<div></div>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://digicame-info.com/2012/09/eos-6d-20.html" target="_blank">DC</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Chosenbydestiny (Sep 14, 2012)

Alright, so how much was that 5D Mark III again?


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## kennephoto (Sep 14, 2012)

5d mark 2??


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 14, 2012)

180/s flash sync.. and i thought the D600 is bad. :

11 AF points... :-\

slower then the D600 with even less data to transfer (20 MP vs. 24 MP).

and why would they produce another FF sensors... imo that makes no sense from a business standpoint.

if this is true the camera is a big dissapointment.... 

i really hope this is bulsh*t....


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## jsexton (Sep 14, 2012)

APS-C sized body? 7d or T4i size?


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## tomscott (Sep 14, 2012)

Why would it take SD when the 7D takes CF!? Seems a bit of an interesting choice...

Doesn't sound very promising IMO. Weather sealed, but 11 point AF so a new system there too along with a new sensor...

I think this one is a fake.

I expect the 7D/5DMKII homologation. Makes more sense, with the parts bin, and more value for the photographers.


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2012)

Built-in GPS makes me highly suspicious - not when Canon has a $220 add-on they can sell, they aren't going to build that into a cheaper camera - same with WIFI really. I think this is highly suspect. And if we do hear about something at Photokina, and I am leaning toward not, I don't think it will be ready to ship anytime soon.


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## shannon76 (Sep 14, 2012)

The disappointment is already starting to set in.  And why would I want to upgrade to this from my 60D? Hopefully these specs are way off.


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## AvTvM (Sep 14, 2012)

wow ... these specs would be extremely weak! 
crappy 5D II AF one more time. No way, Canon! 
This looks more like a FF Rebel ... price tag should not be 2k but sub 1000.


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## Gothmoth (Sep 14, 2012)

mhm..... bit for bit the D600 seems like the better deal.. not?

first time i hear they will use a new 20MP FF sensor.

not the 7D AF? some kind of rebel AF?

to be honest i think this is 100% pure nonsense.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> 11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center



Weak. Very weak.


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## simonxu11 (Sep 14, 2012)

I guess new sensor basically means the hybrid cmos sensor.
the Digicame-info also mentioned this:
* シャッター速度は30-1/4000秒、シンクロ1/180秒、シャッターの耐久性は10万回 
Minimum to Maximum shutter speed: 30-1/4000 sec
flash sync: 1/180
shutter life: 10,0000
*
AF is not even on par with 7D, Canon really know how to cripple 
Build in wifi and GPS is nice


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## dstppy (Sep 14, 2012)

I'd be more interested in a firmer date than firm specs at this point, considering we'd know how reliable the spec lists are.

Honestly, I hope they include a pop-up flash like the 7D as well, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

They couldn't (well, wouldn't) make a xD series that's smaller than the 7D.

I'm not going to get too lathered up about any specs either until CR gives it a CR2 or CR3. I highly doubt SD will happen since the 7D uses CF like the 5D . . . I think an articulating screen (which I like because I can protect the screen AND turn it off by manually flipping it inside) is as likely if SD makes it into the camera.

I'm gonna call this myth busted


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## EYEONE (Sep 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center
> ...



That was the part that stuck out to me the most. That's the biggest fumble. Make all 11 cross type with dual diag at the center or go home.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

Weather-sealed, but smaller Rebel-sized body?

Slower SD and not CF memory card? Only 1 memory card slot?

Lower maximum shutter speed of just 1/4000th second

Shutter mechanism lifespan 100,000 cycles (one-third lower than 7D)

Thanks, but no thanks! I'll keep my 7D and wait to upgrade to a 5D


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## Toronto (Sep 14, 2012)

It's just a rumor ( I hope )

First of all sd card! when all pro and prosumer canons use cf, similar AF to the MKII and new sensor with less mp than the MKII, this sounds like a step back and it would be doubtful canon would release a camera like this. My guess is the spec is from a prototype that was being used to test and the final camera is yet to be finalized.


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## TonyY (Sep 14, 2012)

This is a great news for Nikon and their users... What a disappointment!!!


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## CJRodgers (Sep 14, 2012)

What does f2.8 in regards to AF?

Thanks

Specs are interesting, maybe my 5dmkii wont loose that much value after all.


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## 7enderbender (Sep 14, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name=\"googleone_share_1\" style=\"position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;\"><glusone size=\"tall\" count=\"1\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-6d-specs-leaked/\"></glusone></div><div class=\"tweetmeme_button\" style=\"float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;\"><a class=\"tm_button\" rel=\"&style=normal&b=2\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-6d-specs-leaked/\"></a></div>
> <strong>Canon EOS 6D Specs?
> 
> 
> ...




Correct me if I'm wrong but this would make this a 5DII in a Rebel body with Wifi for pretty much the same price, right? Why would I want that?
For 12 or 13 hundred I could see people jumping on this who couldn't or wouldn't afford the now reduced Mark II. But for the same money?


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## DArora (Sep 14, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> 11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center.



Why would Canon do that? I hope that it is just a rumor!!
Otherwise D600 will kill this camera.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

The Japanese website also says that Canon will price it at $200 (Y20,000) below the Nikon D600.

Canon have not followed Nikon's pricing policy in recent times....1DX v D4...or 5DIII vs D800......T4i vs D3200


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## EOBeav (Sep 14, 2012)

Folks, it's been called a 'consumer' level body for good reason. It's for people who want to move up to a FF from a Rebel, and already have a few lenses, but don't have the coin for a 5dmkIII. 

Get your 5DmkII while you can. You won't be disappointed. With this new camera, you might very well be.


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## Zlatko (Sep 14, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> if this is true the camera is a big dissapointment....


Cheap, economy cameras are always a big disappointment to people who need something better. And high end, expensive cameras are always a big disappointment to people who want something cheaper. So every new camera is a big disappointment to someone. If it's not designed for their specific needs and budget, then it's a big disappointment. There is no way to please everyone. That's why they make some ten DLSR models — each of them is not a big disappointment to someone.


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## kennephoto (Sep 14, 2012)

Sorry but I kinda hope this is the camera that comes out because then I will be super happy about my brand new 5d2 kit that's going to show up today!


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> Folks, it's been called a 'consumer' level body for good reason. It's for people who want to move up to a FF from a Rebel, and already have a few lenses, but don't have the coin for a 5dmkIII.
> 
> Get your 5DmkII while you can. You won't be disappointed. With this new camera, you might very well be.



The 5D2 has always been noted for it's IQ and the same goes for the new 5D3 which has a pixel pitch of 6.25 microns. Based on this 6D spec, the new 20MP FF sensor would have slightly larger pixels with a pixel pitch of around 6.6 microns...
....so if the IQ was 'out of this world' then perhaps Rebel-users would be prepared to part with 2 grand for a body like this??


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## WoodyWindy (Sep 14, 2012)

Personally, I would LOVE a:


Fairly cheap
Full Frame
Compact
20 MP
Clean High ISO
Wide Dynamic Rage
Weather Sealed
EOS body

I wouldn't mind if it had onboard popup flash. 
I don't care how many focus points it has, as long as they're fast and accurate. 
Pivoting flip screen is another don't-care state, as long as it gives good chimp.

- Woody -


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## unfocused (Sep 14, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> Canon-F1 said:
> 
> 
> > if this is true the camera is a big dissapointment....
> ...



Clearly you are new to this forum. Such rational logic will not be tolerated!


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## bbasiaga (Sep 14, 2012)

Highly suspicous. 

It would seem like this spec would have at most a xxD tag, maybe Rebel tag. And the rumors have all been about the 6D. So I guess we've conditioned ourselves to expect an entry level to the PRO line, in FF. This would be something else entirely. Maybe the 70D? Viewed in that light, it wouldn't be as bad. 

The free accessories (GPS, Wifi) sound too good to be true. The new sensor sounds fishy. That seems like a lot of R&D for not much difference. I like the ISO range if its pretty clean up to 12800. The AF system sounds like next gen rebel or xxD maybe? And just because one of the points is a cross type 2.8 point, that doesn't mean the rest aren't the older type cross sensors. 

-Brian


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## DzPhotography (Sep 14, 2012)

Built-in Wifi & GPS? ???


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## willis (Sep 14, 2012)

So we got then 5D Mark 2.5?


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## kennephoto (Sep 14, 2012)

willis said:


> So we got then 5D Mark 2.5?



2.25!


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## BXL (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> then perhaps Rebel-users would be prepared to part with 2 grand for a body like this?


Don't think so... "Rebel-Users" mostly upgrade to something 'bout $900-1500 and I can't see them spending $1999 + Lenses (since most own EF-S-lenses anyway).

The specs also look suspicious to me: 

Why develop a new Sensor when Canon has three different FF-Sensors available? 
Why a new 11 Point AF and not the 19 Point AF of the 7D? 
Why only 1/4000 when even the 60D offers 1/8000?
Why only 1/180 when even a 650D offers 1/200 and the 60D offers 1/250? 
What is an "EOS" Body? One similar to the body of the EOS 650D or one similar to the EOS 1Dx?

I wouldn't trust this source...


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## M249 (Sep 14, 2012)

Forget about EOS xxxD size body. Just look at the D600. It will 7D or 60D like in size and weight. Maybe 760 grams without battery and memory card.


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## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Why would it take SD when the 7D takes CF!? Seems a bit of an interesting choice...
> 
> Doesn't sound very promising IMO. Weather sealed, but 11 point AF so a new system there too along with a new sensor...
> 
> ...



Looks fake... If this is true... Why the heck does Canon spend so much time figuring out ways to cripple their products instead of going and reworking their sensors...


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## Cali_PH (Sep 14, 2012)

Looks a bit fake, but in some ways makes sense. If Canon made the specs stronger, most of us would expect a price greater than the D600. Maybe the somewhat weaker specs were deliberate so they could price it lower.

As for the SD slot, I'm guessing this is geared more towards Rebel/60D owners looking to move up to FF cheaper than a 5DmkIII, so they've got SD cards already. They won't have to worry about buying a new body PLUS relatively expensive CF cards. 

I wonder if the new sensor was so that they could address banding and/or DR in some way. And I'm curious about AFMA, which would be nice.


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## papercutMS (Sep 14, 2012)

kennephoto said:


> willis said:
> 
> 
> > So we got then 5D Mark 2.5?
> ...



You are both incorrect. By the rumored specs I see, I would say more like 5D Mark 1.75


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## simonxu11 (Sep 14, 2012)

> Why develop a new Sensor when Canon has three different FF-Sensors available?


to add phase detection on the sensor like the 650D and eos-m


> Why a new 11 Point AF and not the 19 Point AF of the 7D?


maybe canon want to keep this precious 19 point AF to another higher model 


> Why only 1/4000 when even the 60D offers 1/8000?


because Nikon D600 is 1/4000


> Why only 1/180 when even a 650D offers 1/200 and the 60D offers 1/250?


because 5D3 only has 1/200 


> What is an "EOS" Body? One similar to the body of the EOS 650D or one similar to the EOS 1Dx?


no idea, translation error


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## papercutMS (Sep 14, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> Get your 5DmkII while you can. You won't be disappointed. With this new camera, you might very well be.



+1


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

BXL said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > then perhaps Rebel-users would be prepared to part with 2 grand for a body like this?
> ...



Canon needs to develop a new sensor with better IQ + DR + ISO noise performance, but cannot use the 1DX or 5D3 sensor wth higher MP count cos' that might tempt others not to buy those FF bodies (marginal buyers)

An 11 point AF system is an upgrade from the 9-point AF found on Rebel series bodies

The new Nikon D600 is only 1/4000s max shutter speed, so Canon are matching that spec

And as regards max flash shutter speed sync, well perhaps Canon wants users to shell out for the new 430EX II replacement that is coming soon so that they can get HSS that way, so then 1/x sync becomes totally irrelevant

Finally, an EOS body is anything that Canon Marketing want it to be, but you cannot deny that the tech world (inclusing DSLR) is moving smaller, plus CR commentators with gripped 5D3's and the tall-body 1D series cameras often complain about camera weight (lugging body+telephoto lenses around). Also Canon has introduced the EOS-M with an APS-C sized sensor, so the trend is for smaller bodies across the board.


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## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

No 17 cross type AF points?

Prepare for failure canon.


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## Chewy734 (Sep 14, 2012)

Built-in GPS and wifi? Why can't Canon include those useful features on the 5D3 or 1D X? :-[


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 14, 2012)

jsexton said:


> APS-C sized body? 7d or T4i size?



This has me stumped as well. I think the 7D is actually a little bit larger than the 5DII ;D

5DMkII owners need not look at this '6D'. Only upgrade path seems to be 5DMkIII or (god help me) 1DX


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## pakosouthpark (Sep 14, 2012)

yes! i like it the way it is! now canon make it true! i'll totally buy for the new year!


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> No 17 cross type AF points?
> 
> Prepare for failure canon.



Disagree. When the 5DMkII disappears, this will be an appealing camera if upgrading from APS-C, save possibly for 7d owners.


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## EOBeav (Sep 14, 2012)

The specs on this camera have been bugging me this morning, and I finally figured out why. It has nothing to do with a new camera coming out for with less-than-hoped-for specs on a budget FF. It's the implication that a camera body like this is going to called an xD. 

Here's my point: For my way of thinking the single-digit Canon line implies a level of build quality and other features that come with a higher end camera. It's not for the average weekend shooter. It's for the serious photog who plans on pair it with some high quality glass to get the best IQ out there possible. The specs for this camera are clearly less than that.

So Canon, let's not call it a 6D. Let's give is a xxD or even an xxxD name. Nobody's going to care if you put out a FF camera that has one of those designations. But let's not dilute the xD line of fine cameras you already have just because it's a FF.


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## awinphoto (Sep 14, 2012)

While I'm not in the market for this camera after buying the 5d3, I think you guys are missing the point... everyone griped they wanted an entry level full frame, they got it... To me, I think this is squarely put right there for those advanced rebel shooters and xxd users who have the option... Do you want to go full frame and get better IQ but NOT want to take out a second mortgage to get the 5d3 or 1dx, OR do you want a 7d (or 7d m2 whenever that comes to fruition). It's for that person that wants better images without all the fancy bells in whistles... That guy who may want GPS so they can utilize it for social media and the like... It's no 5d3 but it isn't trying to be either... While it doesn't get me excited per se, perhaps it would have many moons ago when I was a xxd shooter... It is what it is, an entry level full frame. Nothing less, nothing more.


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 14, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> The specs on this camera have been bugging me this morning, and I finally figured out why. It has nothing to do with a new camera coming out for with less-than-hoped-for specs on a budget FF. It's the implication that a camera body like this is going to called an xD.
> 
> Here's my point: For my way of thinking the single-digit Canon line implies a level of build quality and other features that come with a higher end camera. It's not for the average weekend shooter. It's for the serious photog who plans on pair it with some high quality glass to get the best IQ out there possible. The specs for this camera are clearly less than that.
> 
> So Canon, let's not call it a 6D. Let's give is a xxD or even an xxxD name. Nobody's going to care if you put out a FF camera that has one of those designations. But let's not dilute the xD line of fine cameras you already have just because it's a FF.



9D? is that a good compromise? ;D


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## st3mpy (Sep 14, 2012)

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but why does one need 60+ autofocus points? I keep my camera set to the center focus. Focus, frame. That's how I learned to operate a camera. Am I doing it wrong?

Aside from the built in GPS and WiFi, I think the specs make sense. The rumor has always been an entry level FF camera. A Rebel FF is an entry level FF camera, is it not? Why would you expect 5D+ performance? They already have that, it's called the 5D, which is already way more camera than most people need.


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## Zlatko (Sep 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Looks fake... If this is true... Why the heck does Canon spend so much time figuring out ways to cripple their products instead of going and reworking their sensors...


That's like going to McDonald's to complain that their basic hamburger is a "crippled" version of their Big Mac. You won't get much sympathy (actually, none). If you want a Big Mac, you have to pay the extra $ that it costs.

What one person sees as "crippled products" is what another person sees as "more affordable products". Of course, we all want 1DX features at a 5D3 price, and 5D3 features at a 5D2 price, and so on. But that's not realistic. In the real world, every product is "crippled" in some way next to its more expensive version. So Canon offers some 10 different DSLRs, one for almost every budget. 

Anyway, if the rumor is true, then it is a new sensor. Canon already makes excellent sensors, so how often do they need to "rework" their sensors?


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## hmmm (Sep 14, 2012)

This is probably fake, but if true the max price would be $1.5k. 

This is the spec for a bare-bones camera that should sell for $1200 USD. But that wouldn't stop Canon from releasing it at $1899 and offering it with that creaky old 28-135 IS at $2200.


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## marceloshak (Sep 14, 2012)

I don´t know much about DSLR´s manufacturing process and costs, maybe I´m saying something crazy, but I think Canon maybe can take the 7D and replace the sensor by a FF sensor, and sell it about USD 2100. (Sorry about my english)


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## Zlatko (Sep 14, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Clearly you are new to this forum. Such rational logic will not be tolerated!


Thank you!


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

I agree with previous commentators that calling this camera a 70D or 80D would make more sense that using xD nomenclature. 



mrsfotografie said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > No 17 cross type AF points?
> ...



+1 on the above comment, as a 7D owner I wouldn't like to upgrade to this rumored spec for a 6D, but what if Canon's plan is to finally discontinue the 5D2 if/when this camera body was launched? 

Any Rebel or xxD owner would be faced with a choice between the new 6D FF or the old tech 7D with little or no upgrade in IQ from what they were previously using. Unless of course, Canon brings out a 7D2 sometime in early-2013 with even better specs for around $2500 price territory. But then the big question arises, will a new 7D still have a crop sensor? Will buyers pay more for APS-C than for FF?


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## Half Way To Nothing (Sep 14, 2012)

I waited a few days on ordering a 5d mkiii, I was hoping the new FF might be something great (it's not)..

Time to order that 5d mkiii


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## mitch.o (Sep 14, 2012)

This new spec list doesn't really excite me. But I want a full frame SO BAD that I very well may end up buying this camera regardless of what AF system/flash sync setting/sensor Canon puts in it.


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## 7enderbender (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> BXL said:
> 
> 
> > DB said:
> ...





Everyone has different needs and wants. Instead of more electronic gadgetry and sensor esoterics I would like Canon et al to move back to better build quality. What good are optically excellent lenses that are made from plastic and fall apart? Why would I want a body that is creaky and flimsy and too light? Why would I want a viewfinder/rangefinder compact without a viewfinder/rangefinder and a small sensor?


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## akiskev (Sep 14, 2012)

hmmm said:


> This is probably fake, but if true the max price would be $1.5k.


I agree.. 1500 MAX!


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## Ricku (Sep 14, 2012)

Why are so many doubting the built in wifi?

Heck even cheapo P&S-cameras has build in wifi. It is about time Canon puts it into their DSLRs.

This will be very handy when working in a studio, or for photo journalists who needs to transfer files on the go.


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## bbasiaga (Sep 14, 2012)

Mainly doubt the wifi because canon's history with pro/semi-pro bodies ha been to charge an extra $200 for a little dongle to do it.

If this comes true, I feel like there will still be a big gap between the 6D and 5DIII - i wonder what will go in there?

-Brian


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## Area256 (Sep 14, 2012)

I really hope these aren't the actual specs. The lack of a reasonable AF system could almost drive me to the Nikon D600... However, while it may just be my bias, I don't feel this is a valid rumor. It makes a lot more sense to use the 5D3 sensor and 7D focus system. After all we've seen how Canon loves to reuse parts from other systems. And quite frankly if they don't do at least that, the D600 will kill them in this price range.

Maybe if they price it at say $1800, that could sell well given these specs.


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## sleepnever (Sep 14, 2012)

Hmmm. I agree with what others have said that these specs look odd given what we know about Canon and their other cameras. I was excited to see the header of the story this morning, because as a Rebel owner wanting to move FF, that Nikon D600 has my attention as much as I don't want to switch camps and sell my gear at a loss, etc.

Still waiting...


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## Woody (Sep 14, 2012)

These specs look so lame they are actually believable especially for an upcoming Canon camera. ;D ;D Canon is just so good in crippling their entry level cameras...

For me, this is CR2.5


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## lola (Sep 14, 2012)

There's not way the whole spec list is real...
If so, then it's simply an act of desperation from Canon, which is ******* to fail... BIG TIME!


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## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> The specs on this camera have been bugging me this morning, and I finally figured out why. It has nothing to do with a new camera coming out for with less-than-hoped-for specs on a budget FF. It's the implication that a camera body like this is going to called an xD.
> 
> Here's my point: For my way of thinking the single-digit Canon line implies a level of build quality and other features that come with a higher end camera. It's not for the average weekend shooter. It's for the serious photog who plans on pair it with some high quality glass to get the best IQ out there possible. The specs for this camera are clearly less than that.
> 
> So Canon, let's not call it a 6D. Let's give is a xxD or even an xxxD name. Nobody's going to care if you put out a FF camera that has one of those designations. But let's not dilute the xD line of fine cameras you already have just because it's a FF.



+1: if the FPS/AF and other specs are worse than the 7D, make it a xxD. 

But here's to greed. There is dumb greed and smart greed. Smart greed would sell this body and a near cost level and rake in the cash selling the rebel upgraders new "EF" lenses... You need to make people switch to an eco-system. 

...and in the mean time... work on a new sensor . (not same sensor tech with added contrast AF circuitry)

Canon is a Bear... set in its ways. Hopefully new people can bring about good change.... the Change I see in Nikon these days.


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## Wahoowa (Sep 14, 2012)

st3mpy said:


> Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but why does one need 60+ autofocus points? I keep my camera set to the center focus. Focus, frame. That's how I learned to operate a camera. Am I doing it wrong?



No, you aren't doing anything wrong. That's what I did when I first moved from manual film camera to a DSLR 15+ years ago as well.

However, if you do AI Servo or if you use fast primes like 50/1.2L, more AF points are helpful. At f/1.2 or even f/1.4, even a slightest move can make your subject out of focus. That's why so many people are happy about 5D3 over 5D2, myself included.


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## albron00 (Sep 14, 2012)

Congratulations Nikon Users!

I'll keep my 7D....


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## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

st3mpy said:


> Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but why does one need 60+ autofocus points? I keep my camera set to the center focus. Focus, frame. That's how I learned to operate a camera. Am I doing it wrong?



Perhaps you are doing no wrong for your type of photography... but maybe you don't take a lot of portraits with a very fast prime? (85 f1.2, 135L, 50 f1.2 come to mind) You cannot use focus/recompose since the DoF is tiny so you need outer focus points to target the subject's eyes ... it is very important for those types of photographers.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

> Everyone has different needs and wants. Instead of more electronic gadgetry and sensor esoterics I would like Canon et al to move back to better build quality. What good are optically excellent lenses that are made from plastic and fall apart? Why would I want a body that is creaky and flimsy and too light? Why would I want a viewfinder/rangefinder compact without a viewfinder/rangefinder and a small sensor?



*P R I C E*

99% of the commentators on CR complain about how expensive Canon has become for higher end DSLR roducts and accessories.... if you want better quality it comes at a higher cost.....

.....but Canon's marketing department knows (as well as their Chairman's statement in the 2011 Annual Reports & Accounts) that selling more volume to new (Asian) markets is where their bottom-line and PROFITS are.

Canon has moved from being a 'Margin' seller to a 'Volume' seller (just look at the chart of their Body/Lens sales figures over the last quarter of a century) and that means smaller, cheaper, more plastic, more gimmicks etc.


----------



## albron00 (Sep 14, 2012)

It is so sample:
Take 7D and add FF sensor to it.
Period.


----------



## Area256 (Sep 14, 2012)

However looking at digicame-info.com with google translate it looks like the ISO range is really good, at least compared to the D600. If this is in fact a new sensor with great noise performance, that could make up for the disappointing AF system, and may keep it competitive with the D600. Although I don't like the the max shutter is rumored at 1/4000, and sync speed at 1/180...


----------



## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Looks fake... If this is true... Why the heck does Canon spend so much time figuring out ways to cripple their products instead of going and reworking their sensors...
> ...



Thats a silly example... the 6D is not replacing the 1dx, it is replacing the 4 year old 5dii. 

Ask the guys who bought 60D, and found out they no longer had AFMA. and this was a prosumer body not a rebel. The 50D had it but they crippled it in the 60D. Numerous other examples.


----------



## Wahoowa (Sep 14, 2012)

My take. Like many people already said it. It doesn't look like something from Canon for me. GPS and Wifi built-in? It doesn't look like a "Canon way". Well, maybe it's their new way. With the new president, they probably want to change the company direction. They already started with the hefty prices.

Even with GPS and Wifi, this doesn't look like a competition to D600 to me. If they come out like that, they better call it "Rebel" something because it looks like a camera that targets the same market of Rebel series. For me, even though I would like to have a smaller sized full frame DSLR as a backup to my 5D3, it would have to have an acceptable AF system and 11 AF points with one f/2.8 cross-type at the center is not acceptable to me. Canon should learn from 5D2 complaints that AF is one of the most important aspects that serious photographers are concerned about. 4-5 years ago, 5D2 AF might be acceptable at the time. But not in 2012!


----------



## DianeK (Sep 14, 2012)

If this is for real I see a Nikon D600 in my very near future. I'll keep my 7D for wildlife/birds and use the D600 for landscape/portrait. I only have two EF lenses so not a big deal to switch camps. I think I am a fairly typical hobbyist-on-a-budget who entered photography with a crop and am now looking to up my IQ with FF so I have to wonder how many others like me, who aren't deeply invested in glass, will become Nikonites. I really, really hope this is a fake rumor.


----------



## CanNotYet (Sep 14, 2012)

I call BS on this one, at least that it will be the entry FF. If sensor was APS-C, I would believe this as 70D.
If a FF, it makes no sense to equip it with a worse AF than 7D.
So either sensor size is fake, or AF system fake. 

At least I sincerely hope so.


----------



## lola (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> if you want better quality it comes at a higher cost.....



No it does not! i.e. D800
Fanboys, irrationals and blinds may whine as much as they want, it's as simple as that!


----------



## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

lola said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > if you want better quality it comes at a higher cost.....
> ...



What are you smoking? My 7D cost 1000 euros, the D800 is nearly 3x that price where I live! That's a higher cost in everybody's language - the language of numbers


----------



## jojolemerou (Sep 14, 2012)

40D autofocus is good enough for me with only 9 points.
• 9-point TTL CMOS sensor
• Points cross-type for F5.6 or faster lens
• Center point additionally sensitive with lenses of F2.8 or faster

Do you think that the 6D autofocus with 11pt could be better or same as the 40D ?

If so the 6D as described today is ok for me.


----------



## yoho (Sep 14, 2012)

1/4000s flash syn
11AF Points...
single SD slot...

how can it compete with Nikon D600...


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 14, 2012)

Woody said:


> These specs look so lame they are actually believable especially for an upcoming Canon camera. ;D ;D Canon is just so good in crippling their entry level cameras...
> 
> For me, this is CR2.5


If this spec is true, then Canon achieves something extraordinary in crippling, nobody can beat them ;D ;D


----------



## lola (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> What are you smoking? My 7D cost 1000 euros, the D800 is nearly 3x that price where I live! That's a higher cost in everybody's language - the language of numbers



Marlboro Lights, why?

7D & D800 are in different leagues, please be rational...


----------



## bp (Sep 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center
> ...



UHhhhh, yeah, wtf. 11?!?!


----------



## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

lola said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > What are you smoking? My 7D cost 1000 euros, the D800 is nearly 3x that price where I live! That's a higher cost in everybody's language - the language of numbers
> ...



I am 100% rational : you pay more money for a better camera with more MP, higher ISO range etc.

You are irrational stating that the Nikon D800 is better quality for no additional cost. It is one of the most expensive cameras that Nikon sells (apart from their flagship model the D4)


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

mrsfotografie said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > No 17 cross type AF points?
> ...



I hold to my statement. Whats to stop someone from just buying the MK2 used when the new version may only have marginally better AF? For More $$$, With more than likely the same sensor tech? Hmm?

Because the way it's written "11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center." Its Implying that One AF point will be crosstype. If its 60D like AF with 9 Points, Its equal to the nikon. If it has 17 Point 7D-like AF, I have a reason to buy it over the nikon.

Unless the price is right, It will flop compared to nikon.


----------



## DianeK (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> Unless the price is right, It will flop compared to nikon.


Yup!


----------



## distant.star (Sep 14, 2012)

.
Excellent example, K. I would add that you need outer focus points that you can rely on. That's what makes the 5D3, 1Dx, etc. so valuable.

I believe most people who do not shoot professionally never go beyond the center focus point. Probably 75% simply take center-focused pictures. Maybe 15% focus and recompose sometimes. Canon surely realizes this, however number of AF points is a magical comparison point the marketers and media use to manipulate buyers. 

The amateur can get away with tossing half his pictures due to OOF. If you get one good picture out of 10 while chasing kids around or shooting a car race, that's fine. There's no real cost to pushing the shutter button and later deleting a file. The pro has to make more shots count. Look at all the wedding photographers now swooning over the 5D3 -- so many more keepers, and it's due to AF they never experienced before.

While folks on this forum can claim the AF spec on this possible product is "weak," it's probably all that is needed for the intended buyer. And if they can get the margins right, retailers will move them to this product.





K-amps said:


> st3mpy said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but why does one need 60+ autofocus points? I keep my camera set to the center focus. Focus, frame. That's how I learned to operate a camera. Am I doing it wrong?
> ...


----------



## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



Agree... there will be plenty 5dii's available in the used market in great condition for people to buy who are ok with center point AF. Unfortunately Canon will lose people like DianeK who are on the margins...


----------



## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

jojolemerou said:


> 40D autofocus is good enough for me with only 9 points.
> • 9-point TTL CMOS sensor
> • Points cross-type for F5.6 or faster lens
> • Center point additionally sensitive with lenses of F2.8 or faster
> ...



You are the potential customer that Canon Inc. is targeting, so like many others have also said here today, this would certainly be an upgrade for a xxD or xxxD user, whether the price is okay or not remains to be seen.

Canon has sold more lenses since the middle of 2008 (> 40 million) till now than they did in their entire history before that. Likewise they've sold more than 30 million DSLR bodies and back in 2006 that figure was a little more than 20 million - ergo there are many more 40D (and xxxD/xxD) users out there than there are xD DSLR owners and these are the potential customers that Canon will target with their budget-FF whether or not it will be this rumored 6D spec.


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 14, 2012)

jojolemerou said:


> 40D autofocus is good enough for me with only 9 points.
> • 9-point TTL CMOS sensor
> • Points cross-type for F5.6 or faster lens
> • Center point additionally sensitive with lenses of F2.8 or faster
> ...



Wait, the 40D came out over 5 years ago. Is anyone else here okay with a BRAND NEW camera with the same specifications as a 5 year old camera? I'm not particularly pleased with that.


----------



## daniel_charms (Sep 14, 2012)

akiskev said:


> hmmm said:
> 
> 
> > This is probably fake, but if true the max price would be $1.5k.
> ...



I'm getting a slight deja vu here and I wonder why. Hmm, must be because of all those countless forum threads about how the d600 should be/should have been $1,500 max.

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with these specs, other than that maybe the MP should have been a bit higher. I think it's pretty clear that this camera is meant to be the full frame counterpart to the 7D, meant for studio and lanscape photography, rather than wildlife or action shots; hence the slightly lower-specced AF, but also the built-in Wi-Fi (for the budding studio photographer) and GPS.


----------



## dtaylor (Sep 14, 2012)

Of course we have to wait and see what Canon produces, but...

I'm getting a little annoyed with how Canon is positioning and pricing their models. Throughout the 2000's Canon had the better digital bodies, period. Their lineup made sense and they often out did Nikon on features AND had the better sensors. 

Now on the FF side Nikon has the better bodies. On the APS-C side Canon's bodies are stronger, and quite frankly the sensor differences aren't nearly as important as they are made out to be. But the Nikon (i.e. Sony) sensors do have an edge. (There is one patent that is leading to the DR/noise differences and Canon absolutely has to work around it some how.) When you have that situation, you do not let your competition beat you on features or price.

It would have made more sense for Canon to release the 5D3 at $2k, and a 45 MP FF body at $3k. That would have been competitive with Nikon's lineup despite the sensor differences. Instead we get a $3500 (!) "half resolution" 5D3 to compete with the D800, and something on the low end that is feature-crippled compared to the D600. Really Canon?

I would hate to jump ship. I love Canon's lens lineup. And for all the times we hear some Nikon fan say online that their UI is better, I have found that I hate their UI. IMHO Canon has the better UI hands down.

But I have no interest in the 5D3. And if these are the specs for the 6D, I'll have no interest in that either. I have a sinking feeling their high resolution FF will end up being a super expensive 1D-something.

Come on Canon! What happened to the team that was planning bodies during the 2000's? What idiots did you put in charge since then?


----------



## madmailman (Sep 14, 2012)

I think this was leaked by Canon so they could sell more of their 5D mkii's that they have already made. I do have a question for everybody saying Canon should just put the 7D's AF system on a full fram sensor. Surely the AF system would only cover a very small portion (center only) of the bigger sensor? So essentially a 19 point AF system for a FF sensor would be a completely new AF system?


----------



## Dylan777 (Sep 14, 2012)

IF the spec is true...I think buy 5D III is a better choice. Peopple buying 5D III on ebay around $3000 and they seem to be HAPPY.


----------



## RC (Sep 14, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> ...I think you guys are missing the point... everyone griped they wanted an entry level full frame, they got it... To me, I think this is squarely put right there for those advanced rebel shooters and xxd users who have the option...



True but I don't think the vast majority of us want an "entry level full frame" body. We want an updated 5D2 body that is not $3500 ($2000-$2500 range). Ideally we want a 5D3 but can't or aren't will to pay that price.

I don't get this term "entry level." To me entry level is a low end rebel.

If these specs are true it's a major disappointment. Something needs to give, either the specs or the xD name.

Nope, not buying a 5D2, want better AF and I am investing in RT flashes. I'll just have to be happy with my 7D.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2012)

madmailman said:


> I do have a question for everybody saying Canon should just put the 7D's AF system on a full fram sensor. Surely the AF system would only cover a very small portion (center only) of the bigger sensor? So essentially a 19 point AF system for a FF sensor would be a completely new AF system?



Probably. But actually, not as much smaller as you might think! If they compensate for the larger frame, it means developing a new sensor. If they don't, it means the 6D would have more AF points, and better ones, but the area coverage would be a bit less than that of the 5DII, as you can see in the attached image (5DII in blue, 7D in black, not adjusted for the relative sizes of the image sensors). 

The AF area coverage of the 5DII was already not a strong point. When they released the 5DII, they touted the fact that the horizontal point spread was the same as the 1DsIII, conveniently ignoring the fact that the vertical spread was a full row shorter. The 7D's AF sensor on the 6D would mean the loss of a horizontal row, as well. 

But even though those outer points would not be very far from the center, they'd be better than the 5DII's AF outer points... :


----------



## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

madmailman said:


> I think this was leaked by Canon so they could sell more of their 5D mkii's that they have already made. I do have a question for everybody saying Canon should just put the 7D's AF system on a full fram sensor. Surely the AF system would only cover a very small portion (center only) of the bigger sensor? So essentially a 19 point AF system for a FF sensor would be a completely new AF system?



Correct. Remember the 7D AF system was revolutionary because it was designed with fast shooting in mind (8fps in AI Servo mode using a telephoto zoom) for sports action etc., hence the zone and expansion AF selectable modes - presumably this is why all 19 AF points had to be of the cross-type variety too.

However, the above specs for this rumored 6D with a relatively low frame rate, tells us that it is definitely not a sports action or wildlife intended camera body, ergo the AF system does not need to be as demanding. After all, if the intended user will be shooting portraits or landscapes, then they'll most likely be using centre AF point most of the time.


----------



## ishdakuteb (Sep 14, 2012)

A new 20mp sensor: OK, no complain
Full Frame: Good
4.5fps: Accepted
ISO Range 100-25600: Accepted
DIGIC5+: Good
APS-C Sized body: Which one? T3? T4i? 60D? or 7D? As if it is T3 or T4i, Nikon D600 is a better choice
Weathersealed: Good
SD Card: Accepted
Built-in Wifi & GPS: Good but not really need it
11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center: One cross type only? Ummm... odd... Nikon D600 is a better choice
3? LCD: Accepted
Full HD (1920×1080): Accepted
Available December 2012: Accepted
Price: $1999 USD Body Only (Speculated price): Sorry, no interested with current specs. To current shooters out there who:
1. Currently use xxxD or xxxxD series wants to upgrade to full frame: Go fo Nikon D600
2. Currently use xxD or 7D series wants to upgrade to full frame:
a. Go for 5D Mark II if you have too many lenses already
b. Go for Nikon 800 if you do not have that many lenses

Sound like "no match" to the 7D, except handling high noise... I think Canon is trying to push its customers to Nikon side

To Canon: Making profit is really important, but maintaining one's current customers as well as drawing more customers is also important. Once entry shooter/newbie goes to Nikon, buy many lenses in the future, my question is will they go back to Canon? I guess probably not. Therefore, Canon must be carefully think prior to pick one from its prototype bodies.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 14, 2012)

This is getting funnier. Canon, do you really want to delight us always?

or Nikon, delighting you always...


----------



## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

jsexton said:


> APS-C sized body? 7d or T4i size?



I agreed, huge difference in body size. 7D is around about the size of both 5D II and III. T4i size not so exciting.


----------



## BXL (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> Any Rebel or xxD owner would be faced with a choice between the new 6D FF or the old tech 7D with little or no upgrade in IQ from what they were previously using.


Depending on what the Rebel or xxD owner used before, both 60D and 7D still offer an upgrade in IQ. Owning a 450D/XSi, I am currently considering the 60D/70D/7D as a replacement and I can tell you, the 18 MP Sensor of the 60D/7D is a big improvement over the 12 MP Sensor of the 450D. 



> Unless of course, Canon brings out a 7D2 sometime in early-2013 with even better specs for around $2500 price territory. But then the big question arises, will a new 7D still have a crop sensor? Will buyers pay more for APS-C than for FF?


Buyers bought APS-H even though a cheaper FF existed. And there are action, sport and wildlife photographers which would prefer a high speed Crop-DSLR over the 5D III.


----------



## Zlatko (Sep 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...



That certainly proves my point. The 50D was introduced at about $1,400. The 60D was introduced at about $1,100. The 60D currently sells for under $900. So you expected that Canon would cut the price by $300 and not diminish anything in the new camera? Everything would be the same or better (not "crippled" in your view), and they would simply cut the price by $300 and give it a new model number? Would that be rational for a camera manufacturer?

And anyone who bought the 60D without knowing that it didn't have AFMA didn't do even basic research. These details are so easy to look up before you buy.


----------



## jrista (Sep 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center
> ...



No kidding! If Canon releases this, they deserve to lose customers and sales. This makes the whole entire rumor sound bogus...I don't think Canon would gimp their D600 competitor so much.


----------



## BXL (Sep 14, 2012)

ishdakuteb said:


> 1. Currently use xxxD or xxxxD series wants to upgrade to full frame: Go fo Nikon D600


Only if you haven't invested into lenses. Investing into Nikon lenses would be more expensive as well and lenses are imo more important than the body.


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 14, 2012)

Dylan777 said:


> IF the spec is true...I think buy 5D III is a better choice. Peopple buying 5D III on ebay around $3000 and they seem to be HAPPY.



only that people might have another 1000 dollars to spend on lenses..


----------



## unfocused (Sep 14, 2012)

Really? So much over-reaction to _rumored_ specs. Are we going to have to endure the same months and months of endless whining that occurred when the 5DIII was released? 

Whatever Canon releases will be comparably spec'd and comparably priced to the 600D. It won't be identical, but comparable enough to compete, which is what this is all about. 

As for the rumored specs, people seem to be reading them in the worst possible light. They describe a camera that is weather-sealed, has some magnesium framework (like the 600D), a slightly better autofocus than the 5DII, a slightly better frame rate and the latest processor. It is introduced at a price that is about $600-$700 less than the 5DII was introduced at. Is that so horrible?

We know nothing about the sensor itself, which means we know nothing about the quality of the images. Would opinions change if the camera performs at high ISO somewhere between the 5DII and the 5DIII? 

Reminds me of the complaints when the 60D came out. People wanted all the 7D features for $1,000. Now people want the 5DIII features at $2,000.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

st3mpy said:


> Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but why does one need 60+ autofocus points? I keep my camera set to the center focus. Focus, frame. That's how I learned to operate a camera. Am I doing it wrong?



Center point recompose is a work around for bad AF systems that won't nail focus anywhere but the center point ---

and even then the focus may be off at larger apertures -- give this a read -- http://www.visual-vacations.com/Photography/focus-recompose_sucks.htm


----------



## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


> mhm..... bit for bit the D600 seems like the better deal.. not?
> 
> first time i hear they will use a new 20MP FF sensor.
> 
> ...



I hear you, I could deal with a 7D with a modern processor and sensor. However, a featureless–to me–T4i with 2 bonus AF points isn't got me jumping up and down, it's got me thinking of jumping ship.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 14, 2012)

Whew, this is getting confusing. I know lenses are more important than the body but only those knowledgeable will realize that. Newbies will always opt for the best body they can get because of the hype. Before you know it, they're invested in the system already. Should I fear that one day, Canon system won't be as popular as before? It happened with Kodak, IBM and Pepsi. Will it happen again?


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Only if the the entry price would be 1299$.  That would stun the world.


----------



## Zlatko (Sep 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> But here's to greed. There is dumb greed and smart greed. Smart greed would sell this body and a near cost level and rake in the cash selling the rebel upgraders new "EF" lenses... You need to make people switch to an eco-system.
> 
> ...and in the mean time... work on a new sensor . (not same sensor tech with added contrast AF circuitry)
> 
> Canon is a Bear... set in its ways. Hopefully new people can bring about good change.... the Change I see in Nikon these days.


Ok, you think Canon is greedy. You don't like their motivations. You don't like their people. You don't like their sensors or their direction in new products. You don't like their product philosophy. They "cripple" their products and "milk" their customers. Other manufacturers are "smarter" and presumably more altruistic and saintly, delivering more & better product for less money. So why the heck do you still use Canon?


----------



## dadgummit (Sep 14, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Whew, this is getting confusing. I know lenses are more important than the body but only those knowledgeable will realize that. Newbies will always opt for the best body they can get because of the hype. Before you know it, they're invested in the system already. Should I fear that one day, Canon system won't be as popular as before? It happened with Kodak, IBM and Pepsi. Will it happen again?



Yeah, the only thing keeping me in Canon is my lenses. If I was starting out right now I would totally go Nikon. Not just because the bodies are better right now but for the reason that Nikon seems to understand what the consumer wants better than Canon.


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

BTW, Samples from the D600 Here.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/2210312/dsc_3952?inalbum=nikon-d600-preview-samples

Lets hope canon doesn't become another Kodak. :-X


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 14, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Really? So much over-reaction to _rumored_ specs. Are we going to have to endure the same months and months of endless whining that occurred when the 5DIII was released?
> 
> Whatever Canon releases will be comparably spec'd and comparably priced to the 600D. It won't be identical, but comparable enough to compete, which is what this is all about.
> 
> ...



This is 2012. Nikon and Sony laid out their cards. If Canon can't go with it, they'll continue to lose. The technology of 5DII is much cheaper now thus the expectations on a cheaper FF.


----------



## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

My two cents, the Nikon D600 is looking better period. Now I am waiting for final specs and testing of each camera before making my decision but if it looks this grim, I am jumping ship.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 14, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > But here's to greed. There is dumb greed and smart greed. Smart greed would sell this body and a near cost level and rake in the cash selling the rebel upgraders new "EF" lenses... You need to make people switch to an eco-system.
> ...



Because he's invested on the system. As consumers, we have the right to demand thus the gripe over Canon.


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 14, 2012)

> Only if the the entry price would be 1299$.  That would stun the world.



nah, 1799 the lowest! probably looking at 2199! :-\


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> Only if the the entry price would be 1299$.  That would stun the world.



nah, 1799 the lowest! probably looking at 2199! :-\
[/quote]

But If canon could really stretch there production facility's to to get an insane price like that, It would stun the world! No-one would buy the nikon, and canon could sell it with a kit for 1799$ and body for 1299$!


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> pakosouthpark said:
> 
> 
> > Only if the the entry price would be 1299$.  That would stun the world.
> ...



But If canon could really stretch there production facility's to to get an insane price like that, It would stun the world! No-one would buy the nikon, and canon could sell it with a kit for 1799$ and body for 1299$!
[/quote]

Maybe if they can move their manufacturing in China... On second-thought, maybe other Asian countries. I still don't trust chinese items.


----------



## mattneto (Sep 14, 2012)

So when are they going to actually announce something? Is there a date for a press event? I feel like they shouldn't really wait around now that the press has their hands on the D600.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Really? So much over-reaction to _rumored_ specs. Are we going to have to endure the same months and months of endless whining that occurred when the 5DIII was released?
> 
> Whatever Canon releases will be comparably spec'd and comparably priced to the 600D. It won't be identical, but comparable enough to compete, which is what this is all about.
> 
> ...



I agree and disagree. As someone considering upgrading my 7d backup body to something that can perform a little closer to what my mk3 can do, this specs (while yes, a rumor) makes me take it right off the list. 

With the d600 now official, none of these specs come anywhere near matching it. It sounds more like a less than $1500 camera. If it was the mk3 sensor, I could maybe stomach this because even with less functionality I'd know I can get good shots up to 12,800. But on a new sensor? Makes no sense. 

I agree with most who think this is bogus, and yeah, maybe it's intentionally bogus (leak misinformation to drive both mk2 and mk3 sales), then announce a body that is more on par. Remember --- with spec leaks like this ---whose looking at them? Is it the rebel owner, or is it the more serious folk? Most of the typical consumers won't follow the rumors, they won't even notice the announcement - they will only care when its on the shelf at the local best buy. The more serious users are the ones that keep track of the rumors and plan their purchases based on releases (those that have hit the edge of the capabilities of the current equipment). Intentional misinformation! Leak it out, then all those on APC considering FF may become so disgusted that they won't wait, they will either snag a 5d2 (canon wants those off their hands), or, bite the bullet and grab a mk3.

intentional or not, these specs seem bogus. Or, maybe canon has a few tricks up their sleeve ---maybe they intend on releasing a few FF bodies -- and this spec list is actually for a 70d? Save the 22mp sensor and the 21-45 point AF system for the actual 6d? I don't know. What I do know is that if this is real, I'd hate to be part of canon's marketing team trying to find a way to hype this camera, cause as the rumor stands, it kind of sucks.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 14, 2012)

there was a BIG mistake....

these are the Canon Eos 70D specs.... with an 20MP APS-C sensor.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

BXL said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > Any Rebel or xxD owner would be faced with a choice between the new 6D FF or the old tech 7D with little or no upgrade in IQ from what they were previously using.
> ...



I believe you misunderstood what I wrote: I said that a 550 or 60D owner would have the option of:

(a) 20MP new FF sensor of proposed 6D

OR 

(b) 18MP old APS-C sensor of 7D

Therefore my point was, moving from 18MP 550D to 18MP 7D (as I have done) would now be complicated by the additional choice of having the 6D i the lineup for a few hundred bucks more than the 7D. Then it becomes a choice of 'new' FF tech versus old 'existing' 7D tech. I was not referring to 12MP Rebels, but the same logic holds true for a 450D user - do they pony up for a 6D or save $250 (Japanese website says $1900 for 6D i.e. $200 below Nikon D600) and buy a current 7D model and get less of an upgrade in IQ, cos' a 20MP FF with 6.6 micron pixels will trounce a 7D sensor with 4.7 micron pixel pitch (that's one-third more light gathering ability per pixel).


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## stewy (Sep 14, 2012)

I currently have the 40D and think $3500 is too high for the 5D3, $2800 would have been ideal and $3000 the most; especially with the D800 out there in the wild. So I'm waiting for the 5D4. Now here comes the rumored 6D. Based on the spec I'm thinking that I'll get a used 5D2 while I wait for a 5D4. If Canon released a high MP camera (around 40MP), I'd most likely get that and get the 24-70 f2.8 II if it doesn't already come bundled. I can only hope that if the 6D turns out like the rumors, it causes the price of the 5D2 to fall to around $1000.


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## erwinrm (Sep 14, 2012)

BXL said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > then perhaps Rebel-users would be prepared to part with 2 grand for a body like this?
> ...



Yup, that sounds about right. I'm a rebel user that upgraded to a 7D. I don't have a problem with the T2i IQ, but it was a pain to catch action shots. I usually have to pre-focus at a certain distance and wait for the subject to get there. As for IQ, I have a few 20" x 30" prints and they look just fine to me.

Just my opinion here, but I think most rebel users, like me, already think the IQ is excellent. If I didn't have to shoot sports/action, I'd be perfectly happy with my $650 T2i. Great stills, plus excellent video to boot.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

> I agree with most who think this is bogus, and yeah, maybe it's intentionally bogus (leak misinformation to drive both mk2 and mk3 sales), then announce a body that is more on par. Remember --- with spec leaks like this ---whose looking at them? Is it the rebel owner, or is it the more serious folk? Most of the typical consumers won't follow the rumors, they won't even notice the announcement - they will only care when its on the shelf at the local best buy. The more serious users are the ones that keep track of the rumors and plan their purchases based on releases (those that have hit the edge of the capabilities of the current equipment). Intentional misinformation! Leak it out, then all those on APC considering FF may become so disgusted that they won't wait, they will either snag a 5d2 (canon wants those off their hands), or, bite the bullet and grab a mk3.
> 
> intentional or not, these specs seem bogus. Or, maybe canon has a few tricks up their sleeve ---maybe they intend on releasing a few FF bodies -- and this spec list is actually for a 70d? Save the 22mp sensor and the 21-45 point AF system for the actual 6d? I don't know. What I do know is that if this is real, I'd hate to be part of canon's marketing team trying to find a way to hype this camera, cause as the rumor stands, it kind of sucks.



Agree with your point about Rebel owner as being likely target for such a camera, but what's bogus about Canon Inc. leaking a story about proposed specs + price? Do you not think that Canon's marketing people are reading this blog today? You can bet they are. You and everyone else has said today that $1500 is an okay price for such a camera body, but Canon has high-balled a $1900 speculative price. Now they can come in at $1650 or $1750 with such a camera at launch, discontinue the 5D2, and watch their sales go through the roof as every Rebel enthusiast with some decent EF lenses (let's face it many of them have L glass) would bite at a FF DSLR body that cost just a couple of hundred bucks more than the current 7D.

The serious camera owners, will wait for a 7D2 for $2250 or $2500 or they'll wait for the 5D3 price to fall to $2750 and then they'll get one of those new or used.


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## jfretless (Sep 14, 2012)

I call this BS. 

Sounds like someone wanted to add fuel to the post D600 announcement fire. Went down the D600 spec list and downgraded it. Then said, "Wait, nobody is going to believe it... We have to make something sound good. Let's add built in wifi and gps."


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## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

I went to the DP Review link some else posted earlier on this forum. The high ISO/Low Light performance of the D600 is looking VERY strong. Assuming those 6400 ISP shots are straight out of the camera without any post, it 's looking like a real performer. The images as ISO 6400–again, assuming no post–are very usable, with some post they're looking like VERY USABLE images. I really hope none of these specs for the Canon 6D are real or else Canon is losing me as a user. This spec list is scary and a REALLY BIG disappointment.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

jfretless said:


> I call this BS.
> 
> Sounds like someone wanted to add fuel to the post D600 announcement fire. Went down the D600 spec list and downgraded it. Then said, "Wait, nobody is going to believe it... We have to make something sound good. Let's add built in wifi and gps."



Well why hasn't someone from Canon Inc. denounced this new product rumour as fake. Whether or not it is just a false story or not does not detract from the apparent demand from Canon shooters for a more affordable FF DSLR body, especially now that their biggest competitor NIKON has just launched a FF camera for a smidgen over 2 grand (US$).

The speculation will not cease merely because you (and many others I presume) believe this to be a crackpot leaked story. Speculation will continue until the day of the Canon press release announcing their new budget FF sensor DSLR.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 14, 2012)

jfretless said:


> I call this BS.
> 
> Sounds like someone wanted to add fuel to the post D600 announcement fire. Went down the D600 spec list and downgraded it. Then said, "Wait, nobody is going to believe it... We have to make something sound good. Let's add built in wifi and gps."



exactly my thoughts


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> Well why hasn't someone from Canon Inc. denounced this new product rumour as fake.



show us when canon has done that in the past!

how long do you read here.. canon will not do that.
they have never reacted to such rumors.


----------



## stipotle (Sep 14, 2012)

BXL said:


> ishdakuteb said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Currently use xxxD or xxxxD series wants to upgrade to full frame: Go fo Nikon D600
> ...



You are forgetting that if you currently using xxxD or xxxxD, you are likely using EF-S lens(es) and will need to invest in new glass no matter what FF you upgrade to. (Unless you are a Nikon DX user - in that case they made accommodations in the D600 crop mode)


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## tron (Sep 14, 2012)

This must be a joke. This is almost a downgraded 5DMkII !!!!


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## simonxu11 (Sep 14, 2012)

Now digicame-info got two pictures of 6D
http://digicame-info.com/2012/09/eos-6d-20.html


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## cliffwang (Sep 14, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Canon-F1 said:
> ...



Yes and no. You have to know here is CANON rumor website. Most people here are royal Canon users. Not only that, most of them are PRO and making money by their gears. That's why you always see a gap between some people. The only problem is many people post like "+1000", "It doesn't worse", and "That's the best" WITHOUT any reason. IMO, those kind posts cannot really help people much.


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## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> Now digicame-info got two pictures of 6D
> http://digicame-info.com/2012/09/eos-6d-20.html



Nice. The 6D is quite handsome. ;D


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## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...


----------



## Gothmoth (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> Well why hasn't someone from Canon Inc. denounced this new product rumour as fake.



as if canon has denounced any of the wrong 5D MK3 rumors that where posted here over the years. :

bollocks! ;D


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## cliffwang (Sep 14, 2012)

DzPhotography said:


> Built-in Wifi & GPS? ???


That's the only thing I would like on my 5D3.


----------



## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> Now digicame-info got two pictures of 6D
> http://digicame-info.com/2012/09/eos-6d-20.html



That "6" looks so "genuine"


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## Gothmoth (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > Now digicame-info got two pictures of 6D
> ...



yep and the number 6 looks so unfakey....


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## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > Now digicame-info got two pictures of 6D
> ...



It seems like every first leaked photo is deemed fake... Like the 5D3, EOS M, 1Dx....

It could be faked but IDK, Its might not be either.


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## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > simonxu11 said:
> ...



I am on record saying it is fake indeed:

PS: Edited my original post.


----------



## Gothmoth (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > simonxu11 said:
> ...



well many are.... and this is .. im 95% sure... faked.


----------



## erwinrm (Sep 14, 2012)

If I were in the market for a FF body now, I'd go for this tested and proven workhorse by pros worldwide.

Price Drop: Canon EOS 5D Mark II DSLR - $1,899.00 (Orig $1,979.00)
B&H just lowered the price on the Canon EOS 5D Mark II Digital SLR Camera to $1,899.00. Originally $1,979.00 after $200.00 instant rebate.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > Well why hasn't someone from Canon Inc. denounced this new product rumour as fake.
> ...



The NikonRumors.com site has been 99.9% accurate on both the D800 and D600 -> perhaps because Nikon has a pipeline of new tech and wants to get their user base excited about upcoming developments, so they leak pertinent bits of info along the way.

Canon rumours that you state as being wrong were mostly opinions given by CR commentators with a limited vocabulary like your own, rather than official manufacturer leaks or from sources known to be close to Canon.

If Canon did have a 70D or 7D2 for PhotoKina next week, do you think they'd allow such speculation to run rife about a mythical new product, one that CR has posted from different sources, this time from a Japanese website that is dedicated to the latest camera equipment news - where the article states explicitly that the rumour emanated from inside Canon itself.

Most rumours transpire to be at least partly true, therefore, a Canon EOS 6D looks likely to be on the horizon (whatever the ultimate specs are) - that is NEWS. The talk that it will be FF is newsworthy too, because it fits nicely into the xD designated product line numbers i.e. 7D is Crop but 6D and above is Full-Frame.

Only a fool would now dismiss the idea that a 6D is on the way.


----------



## daniel_charms (Sep 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > Now digicame-info got two pictures of 6D
> ...



It looks pretty good to me. If it's a fake (and I don't think it is), it's a good one, since it's styled like all newer Canon cameras (7d, 60d, 5d3), yet it's not an obvious case of just switching around a few numbers. It's certainly different from all current cameras.


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## Musouka (Sep 14, 2012)

Seems like the 70D decided it wants to go FF


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2012)

dadgummit said:


> ... Nikon seems to understand what the consumer wants better than Canon.



Do they? For the past several years, Canon has outsold Nikon in the dSLR market segment, and the gap has been widening, not narrowing. Will that trend change? Maybe...but there are no data yet, so any statement to that effect is bs at this point. 

While you may be right that Nikon better understands what 'the consumer' (or perhaps you, anyway) wants to buy, reportedly Nikon's service is the pits - and that's something that matters in the long run.


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## Gothmoth (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> Only a fool would now dismiss the idea that a 6D is on the way.




well one thing has nothing to do with the other. 
is a 6D in the making.. yes i think so.
will it have the posted specs? ... i don´t think so (and hope).

i can leak a spec list myself. i only need someone to post it on a popular blog.

anyway fact is, afaik, canon officials have never denounced rumors.
or can you show us that they have?




> Canon rumours that you state as being wrong were mostly opinions given by CR commentators with a limited vocabulary like your own, rather than official manufacturer leaks or from sources known to be close to Canon



yeah well.. you don´t know where this rumors comes from.

und zu meinem vokabular.. ja weil die meisten amis und brits zu doof sind eine zweite sprache zu lernen... muss ja alle welt englisch schreiben. 8)


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> > I agree with most who think this is bogus, and yeah, maybe it's intentionally bogus (leak misinformation to drive both mk2 and mk3 sales), then announce a body that is more on par. Remember --- with spec leaks like this ---whose looking at them? Is it the rebel owner, or is it the more serious folk? Most of the typical consumers won't follow the rumors, they won't even notice the announcement - they will only care when its on the shelf at the local best buy. The more serious users are the ones that keep track of the rumors and plan their purchases based on releases (those that have hit the edge of the capabilities of the current equipment). Intentional misinformation! Leak it out, then all those on APC considering FF may become so disgusted that they won't wait, they will either snag a 5d2 (canon wants those off their hands), or, bite the bullet and grab a mk3.
> >
> > this rumor kind of has to be either ---just flat out false and spread by someone that enjoys watching forums get 10+ page posts, Mis-information to freak people out and get them to buy mk2's or mkiii's, or on the other side, some nikon proxy leaked this as a way to get more people to notice the d600, or, these are the specs for a canon camera, just not the 6d.
> >
> ...



I take that even a step further..with these specs the only thing not 'rebel' about this is that its FF (ok, there is the weather sealing claim). Other than that, there is nothing to this spec sheet that inspires anything. This is at most a $1500 body as it doesn't even seem to live up to 7d standards (AF, fps, sd cards only???) This sounds a lot more like an XXd body than an Xd body. If they were using the 22mp 5dmk3 sensor, in a smaller body with limited AF (in servor mode, they could get the servo mode options and that alone would differentiate it from the mk3), less fps (4.5 is fine). To hit that sweet spot between $1500-2000 this camera has to at least be at 7d standards, reality is is should be just as good as the mk2 with a better AF (from 9 to 11 and still only sensitive at the center is not better..sounds like the same damn thing!!!!).

I don't think this is real, can't be, won't be...not gonna happen!!!!!


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## Gothmoth (Sep 14, 2012)

daniel_charms said:


> It looks pretty good to me. If it's a fake (and I don't think it is),



how is you photoshop experience?


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## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> No 17 cross type AF points? Prepare for failure canon.



Maybe that's a mistranslation and it's one sub-f2.8 sensitive cross like on the 60d and then 16 normal cross? If not is has to be a joke.



Zlatko said:


> Anyway, if the rumor is true, then it is a new sensor. Canon already makes excellent sensors, so how often do they need to "rework" their sensors?



I guess this sensor features af phase detect pixels like on the 650d. And 20mp makes sense for Canon marketing - less than 5d2 and 5d3, and I guess you'll only get cps silver for this body in Europe unlike the "pro" 5d versions.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

this spe list also does not have a CR0,1,2,3 rating either..... hmmmmmm


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## bbasiaga (Sep 14, 2012)

So what would everyone think if this was the 70D instead of a 6d? Less flaming? More? 

I think the true spec of the AF (how many cross type) needs to be confirmed, the presenc of AFMA, and the actual body construction and designation (how many x's before the D). 11 pages of flames, woes, and system jumping could all be for naught!

-Brian


----------



## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

@ Chuck Alaimo

I hear what you're saying, it does not gel with me either, new features that all appear to be compromised or held back in some way and your analogy that it would look like a FF Rebel is certainly not lost on most people here, but look at the 5D3 vs D800 specification talk prior to official launch -> nobody had the 5D mk III sensor pegged at anything under 27MP, plus the price talk was centered around $2900 and not 20% above that level (the actual outcome), yet it happened anyway.

Personally I hope this camera with this spec list does not materialize, but try and look at it from Canon's perspective:-

(1) they cannot launch a budget FF camera that has a higher MP count than the current 5D3 (the 1DX is different as this is all about sports/action/paparazzi etc.) so that really limits the megapixel count of the sensor

(2) Canon are prepared to use the new DIGIC5+ processor, big ISO range (100 to 25,600), reasonable fps etc.

(3) Keeping the shutter speed and flash sync rate similar to what Rebel users are already used to as well as allowing them to re-use their existing SD memory cards

(4) an adequate AF system that is better than the standard 9-point system that most crop sensor camera users are presently used to

(5) pricing it a couple of hundred bucks more than the current 7D (or old 5D2), because it will be a new FF sensor camera


Most of us here on this forum are looking either backwards (from a 1D, 5D or even 7D perspective) or forwards from a Rebel or xxD viewpoint (tainted by the aspiration or desire to one-day own a FF body with all of the extra features found in the xD series), whereas Canon are just ticking boxes, plus prioritizing those boxes as they see fit (from a marketing perspective as they wish to sell the optimal quantity) to satisfy the masses.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

bbasiaga said:


> 11 pages of flames, woes, and system jumping could all be for naught!



I don't see all posts as flaming, but the reactions reflect enthusiasts' concerns to be left behind Nikon or pay at least $1000 more per lens or camera body. I share these concerns.


----------



## JBL (Sep 14, 2012)

cpw has an image of the 6D.


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## daniel_charms (Sep 14, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


> daniel_charms said:
> 
> 
> > It looks pretty good to me. If it's a fake (and I don't think it is),
> ...



Don't have any, and my track record of spotting fakes hasn't been quite spotless, either (The first leaked images of the Nikon d800 seemed totally fake to me, yet turned out to be real). But the reason why I think it's not a fake is because there's so many little things that set it apart from other EOS cameras of similar size: there's no pop-up flash and no white spot on the lens mount, so it doesn't look like a 60d or a 7d; it's smaller than a 5d and the large dof preview button is missing; the rubber flaps on the side don't match any existing camera. So if it is a photoshop job, it's a clever one, since there's so many differences from other cameras, yet there's no obvious signs of a cut-and-paste job.


----------



## ssrdd (Sep 14, 2012)

I strongly hope there will be stupid H.264 codec and without HDMI out put.
plus its expensive on the name of full frame.

canon is full of stupids.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2012)

JBL said:


> cpw has an image of the 6D.



I'm not saying it's fake...but, look at the '6' in that image, and compare it to the '6' of the 60D and 600D. The font for the 60D and 600D nameplate have an identical '6', and it's different from the '6' in the image of the 6D posted above. Just sayin'.


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## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

I think the lack of a pop-up flash is consistent with xD FF bodies, plus Canon will want owners to buy the ST-E3 or 600EX-RT (or the 450X-RT?? if that is what the 430EX II replacement will be called)


----------



## Zlatko (Sep 14, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...


Of course. But there is constructive griping and there is unreasonable griping (like complaining that lower-priced products have lesser features, or demanding price equality with another manufacturer's specific product, or attributing some improper intent to a manufacturer's product strategy). If one feels such gripes are legitimate, one has the right to dis-invest from the system and be done with the company and all of its perceived wrongs. That's what eBay is for ... to unload the gear you bought from the bad company that seemed nice when you first invested in its products, but has seemingly turned bad.


----------



## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

Has anyone else noticed that the microphone for video recording is just below (3 dots in a row) the EOS 6D insignia and not above like in the 7D - the way I hold my camera body, my thumb would cover the microphone??


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## mathino (Sep 14, 2012)

If these specs become true...that Im really, really sad...

...is the AF a joke ? Other specs are ok, completly fine for me. *But why AGAIN only center point cross-type AF ?* Do they think that consumers or enthusiasts use only center point ? What about low light enviroment ? Only with external flash with light grid ? It seems like they FORCE us to buy Mk III...no way I will pay 3000 Euro for my next camera.

...I think that Id rather get Mk II while I still can. 6D AF would be probably close to 5D Mk II so this is a deal breaker for me...


----------



## jfretless (Sep 14, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> bbasiaga said:
> 
> 
> > 11 pages of flames, woes, and system jumping could all be for naught!
> ...



Are we talking photography or watching a sporting event? How would "to be left behind Nikon" having ANY influence on your ability to make great images? Are your photographic skills so great that you are limited by the current camera technology?

Come on people, it not the technology that makes a great images, it's the content.


----------



## ssrdd (Sep 14, 2012)

I am jumping to mighty GH3 for the 70mbps video bit rate.

fc--uk canon shit H.264.


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## Wahoowa (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the microphone for video recording is just below (3 dots in a row) the EOS 6D insignia and not above like in the 7D - the way I hold my camera body, my thumb would cover the microphone??



Not the way I hold it. My thumb will be along side of the lens barrel.

Anyhow, picture looks like a good fake to me, if it's indeed one. It looks like a smaller size to me. Probably between 60D and 7D.


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## zrz2005101 (Sep 14, 2012)

......Might as well just keep my 1dsII if this *IS* the new camera that will be coming out. Other than high ISO and small-compact relative to the 1DsII, really don't see anything else that is better compared to 1DsII. (At least I will still have 45 AF points with 7 *cross-types*!!!)


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

jfretless said:


> Come on people, it not the technology that makes a great images, it's the content.



In reality it's both of course, or everybody would use a p&s. Of course people want more expensive gear because they think they'll get better shots immediately and feel more secure with it - and manufacturer's marketing strengthens this.

But for people upgrading from crop, not being able to use their ef-s lenes, their old flash not covering the whole af point range of newer ff bodies imho it's absolutely valid to compare to Nikon to Canon current offers and think about switching. If Canon wasn't under *any* market pressure there'd be no 6d at all for sure.


----------



## DArora (Sep 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> JBL said:
> 
> 
> > cpw has an image of the 6D.
> ...



Given the specs (11 AF) I am hoping this is fake and specs are incorrect. ???


----------



## ishdakuteb (Sep 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...




i personally do not think it is fake, i have a confident in saying that it is real one... however, this camera specs is not my type... but love to monitor both canon and nikon activities...


----------



## DB (Sep 14, 2012)

Wahoowa said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone else noticed that the microphone for video recording is just below (3 dots in a row) the EOS 6D insignia and not above like in the 7D - the way I hold my camera body, my thumb would cover the microphone??
> ...



Looks to be wider than both the 7D and 60D, but very similar.

The microphone holes scream that this image is a fake, none of the Canon bodies have mic holes in the rubber grip, all appear to be above the xD designation in the smoother plastic part of the body e.g. 4 holes for 60D and 7D, 5 holes for 5D3 and 3 holes for 1DX (placed between the 'EOS 1D' and the 'X'). Most likely a Photoshop job where the original holes were clone-stamped then new ones were added afterwards in a different position to make it look like a new DSLR body.


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## mathino (Sep 14, 2012)

zrz2005101 said:


> ......Might as well just keep my 1dsII if this *IS* the new camera that will be coming out. Other than high ISO and small-compact relative to the 1DsII, really don't see anything else that is better compared to 1DsII. (At least I will still have 45 AF points with 7 *cross-types*!!!)



Good thinking, I completly understand you. I want to upgrade to FF but with JUST 1 cross-type point this breaks the deal for me. Ok, dont use 19 point all cross type AF...but put there at LEAST 9 cross-type AF !

...I guess that they even put away AFMA...cripple it down as much as possible...saaaad.

5D Mk II is looking better a better to me


----------



## st3mpy (Sep 14, 2012)

"Are your photographic skills so great that you are limited by the current camera technology?"

My question about "Do you really need more than 1 AF point" was really two fold. 

1. Yes, I'm new to AF SLR's, and really did have a question about multiple AF points.

2. Do you really need this stuff to make a good photograph? If you do, then I'm sorry but in my opinion, your technique has become sloppy.


----------



## distant.star (Sep 14, 2012)

.
As usual, pretty much agreement.

First, this "rumor" is not a CR anything. It's a report of something from a Web site or sites of unknown credibility. When Craig puts his number on something, then I'll think it's worth talking about.

Essentially, this sounds like my alternative to the high price of the 5D3. As you point out, we know nothing of the sensor. If high ISO is comparable to other Canon FF products, that will be worth a lot. Also, since it's a "new" sensor, perhaps they've done a better job with the low ISO. I still want a sensor that will give me at ISO 100 what I could get reliably with film at ASA 25 or 50. The noise at ISO 100 on a 7D, for instance, reminds me of film at ASA 400. I'm not buying that.

The weak part of this story is the AF. Canon would have to furnish at least a 7D comparable AF with this product. Less than that will not work for me.

As always, I'm standing by. Waiting for facts to show up.





 unfocused said:


> Really? So much over-reaction to _rumored_ specs. Are we going to have to endure the same months and months of endless whining that occurred when the 5DIII was released?
> 
> Whatever Canon releases will be comparably spec'd and comparably priced to the 600D. It won't be identical, but comparable enough to compete, which is what this is all about.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunnystate (Sep 14, 2012)

Like Canon have no idea how market reacted so far to their new pricing futures crippling strategy! 
Instead of moaning and crying at the time of paying with credit cards for 5DIII, just sent a short but clear message with your wallet already!
You will see a real change coming very soon.
Just because you will send another ultra "POWERFUL" message to canon on CR ;D nobody will bother until they still getting our money. 
Trust me Canon will wait in to the last moment before giving up, this is clearly new philosophy and there is no cure for that except firm market force, and that is if there is any sanity left in the management.


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## rcouttolenc (Sep 14, 2012)

No doubt this is the little brother in the FF arena and more so if price is $1999. It is for those who want full frame but will sacrifice specs at a good price.
I will stick with the 7D which is the big brother in the small sensors, but specs are much better: 8fps, 19 AF points, 63 zones, electronic leveling, speedlite transmitter, pop-up flash, CF card, GPS with new firmware, dual digicam. enough for me.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

distant.star said:


> Reminds me of the complaints when the 60D came out. People wanted all the 7D features for $1,000. Now people want the 5DIII features at $2,000.



The big difference that there is a very good 5d2 ff with a very low price, and naturally this has to serve as a comparison basis. That was not the case when it was 60d vs 7d, and the competition from the d7000 was not as strong as from the d600 now.


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## dstppy (Sep 14, 2012)

I think it's time craig updates the main post with a BUSTED note.

Lots of people pointing out wifi isn't going to happen, GPS probably the same. As I mentioned, SD makes NO sense placed between a 5D and 7D.

Most people are just jumping in new here to fan the Nikon fervor or bemoan some of the other made-up specs . . .

It's just another slow news day now that Apple doesn't have a top secret ipad fourteen to stir up BS about.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> jfretless said:
> 
> 
> > Come on people, it not the technology that makes a great images, it's the content.
> ...



there is a rather interesting topic here regarding gear versus quality of images and is it worth it -- http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9043.0

It can go both ways with this. And its not just the content --- one can have amazing content but poor composition which kind of equals fail --- where you can take absolutely uninteresting content and compose a shot creatively then apply masterful PP and make that uninteresting thing amazing. Hell, that is part of having an eye for photography ---- having that vision that sees something in stuff most just don't see!


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## CharlieB (Sep 14, 2012)

Whatever we get, I'd be very very amazed if they call it a 6d. Expect a 9D or 5Ds or what ever.


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## Musouka (Sep 14, 2012)

DB said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the microphone for video recording is just below (3 dots in a row) the EOS 6D insignia and not above like in the 7D - the way I hold my camera body, my thumb would cover the microphone??



Doesn't make much sense, does it? After going the route of the stereo mic with the 650D







Why would Canon go back to mono again?











The screen doesn't appear to be of the articulating type, too.


----------



## zrz2005101 (Sep 14, 2012)

mathino said:


> zrz2005101 said:
> 
> 
> > ......Might as well just keep my 1dsII if this *IS* the new camera that will be coming out. Other than high ISO and small-compact relative to the 1DsII, really don't see anything else that is better compared to 1DsII. (At least I will still have 45 AF points with 7 *cross-types*!!!)
> ...



Well one main reason I'm selling 1Ds2 and soon my 7D is to cu back the weight of my gears as they are very heavy currently. But this camera really did not bring my interest up. Unless Canon has greatly improved in their low ISO department and removed the banding when you push the shadows with THIS spec, otherwise it's still a no to me


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## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Zlatko said:
> ...



Don't be a sour puss... this is a rumors site and all of us canon boys are having some fun here. We all have our reasons for owning Canon... that does not mean I become a zealot and only sing praises. Infact I see my role as to counterbalance people like you so that Canon can get some perspective... I am not going to search on your posts and try and disagree with them everytime. You have a right to post here as much as anyone else.

Have fun.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> there is a rather interesting topic here regarding gear versus quality of images and is it worth it -- http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9043.0


Yes, I know this one - and as far as I remember many people stated that improving their gear did have a positive impact. But of course it's impossible to analyze this neutrally because there is no comparison basis (i.e. the same people continuing to use their old gear) and people are always trying to justify their decisions, esp. if it concerns spending a lot of money.



Musouka said:


> Doesn't make much sense, does it? After going the route of the stereo mic with the 650D Why would Canon go back to mono again?


For the same reason they don't put a flash on the 5d: They expect you to use additional gear like an external flash or microphone anyway. But I'm by no means saying these 6d specs are true.



st3mpy said:


> Do you really need this stuff to make a good photograph? If you do, then I'm sorry but in my opinion, your technique has become sloppy.


Then show me a technique to af something moving and not putting it into the center of the shot using just one center point please. Learn to do magic w/ manual focusing? With a thin depth of field?!


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## cliffwang (Sep 14, 2012)

st3mpy said:


> "Are your photographic skills so great that you are limited by the current camera technology?"
> 
> My question about "Do you really need more than 1 AF point" was really two fold.
> 
> ...



I do and I don't care my technique is sloppy. At least I am very happy and enjoy the AF system on 5D3.


----------



## dl101 (Sep 14, 2012)

CharlieB said:


> Whatever we get, I'd be very very amazed if they call it a 6d. Expect a 9D or 5Ds or what ever.



Number 6 is the fad. Nex-6, D600, now 6D. I have a feeling all of them will be successful.


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## rsalles64 (Sep 14, 2012)

To me the camera should have an onboard flash and a focus system similar to the 7D, if it´s going to cost around 2k, rebel focus system is not enough. I have a lot of lenses, so i´m not moving to nikon, but i´m not going to upgrade either, I´ll wait a few years more if i have to.


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## K-amps (Sep 14, 2012)

JBL said:


> cpw has an image of the 6D.



The "6" in this picture looks more believable than the first post where it was oversized and too bright.


----------



## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

K-amps said:


> JBL said:
> 
> 
> > cpw has an image of the 6D.
> ...



This looks legit, look at the ports on the side, only 3 or 4 from what I can make out. No pro ports like PC. Seems as though, they are the same as the 60D but two columns instead of all four on one column, of course I am speculating.


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## Musouka (Sep 14, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Musouka said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't make much sense, does it? After going the route of the stereo mic with the 650D Why would Canon go back to mono again?
> ...



Fair enough but if the target market is the Rebel crowd who want to upgrade, this will make the camera crippled in certain aspects (mono microphone, no articulating or touch screen and no flash) while having some 'unnecessary' stuff like built-in GPS and internal WiFi. 

I'm sure that Canon have done their research, though, and decided that the market wants these particular features. That said, the 24-105 kit price is 1.5x the price of the body. Maybe Canon should offer another more value-oriented kit.


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## kennephoto (Sep 14, 2012)

Depth of field preview button back on the other side?? Kinda strange they would update the 5d3 with that but then take it off the 6d!


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## RLPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

If these picture are for real, I know some people's who about to eat crow. :


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## DianeK (Sep 14, 2012)

jfretless said:


> Are your photographic skills so great that you are limited by the current camera technology?
> 
> Come on people, it not the technology that makes a great images, it's the content.



Well, I for one am not a genius at getting proper exposure every time and I am just very, very weary of fixing the noise that I get with my 60D and 7D sensors. So, given I'm not going to grow any more brain cells, I need all the technological help I can get.


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## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

Musouka said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Musouka said:
> ...



I am seriously bummed out, with this pic looking so legit, I am scared these specs are what we can expect. Seems as though Canon is trying to force us into buying more expensive glass. The XD line only takes EF not EF-S, I do not mind, I am fine with that but they should at least do it by selling us adequate equipment. The AF on this 6D is a joke. As I stated before, I could deal with a 7D with a 5D III sensor and DIGIC 5+ chip, no problem. Even if they would do exactly that, I mean put a 5D III Sensor and DIGIC 5+ in the current 7D, that would still be a better deal than what these specs indicate. I'll sell my lenses off one at a time a discounted rate if I have to. I've got the $$$ for the D600, at this point I am going to give Canon a fair chance and wait for the camera to be released and test/compared to the D600, but if the official announcement and official specs are anything similar to these, I'm out and going to Nikon. Not to mention that with the AF motor in the D600, my old non-CPU lenses from my Nikon FG 35mm film will work on it.


----------



## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

DianeK said:


> jfretless said:
> 
> 
> > Are your photographic skills so great that you are limited by the current camera technology?
> ...



I think there is a misconception with some people's comments, for me, I want bang for my buck and that's the stem of my complaints with these specs on the Canon 6D are about. The Nikon D600 is thus far trumping it and then some. But I think that there must be an understanding, the tech itself DOES NOT make you a great photographer, it is the skill of the hands the camera is in. I'm sorry to say that if you need "all the technological help" you can get. Then an advanced piece of equipment is not for you. Rebel is where you should stay until you're ready and confident to take the next leap and more importantly, when you don't feel you need to rely on the technology itself. I have NEVER, NEVER used the Auto setting on my camera, as a matter of fact, I despise Auto even on point and shoots. I learned on film and back then I didn't have the conveniences of digital which forced me to become a better photographer. However minimal the specs are on the Canon 6D it will be full frame which in itself is a different animal. Good luck.


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## DianeK (Sep 14, 2012)

floex712 said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > jfretless said:
> ...



Wow, that was rather scathing. All I am saying is that _a better sensor is going to give me better image quality_. I was not saying it was going to help me with composition or artistry. And quite frankly, I don't think the sensor in either the 60D or 7D is all that great compared to what Sony is making for Nikon.


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## Marine03 (Sep 14, 2012)

Sorry I didn't read all 14 pages but is the auto focus not the biggest let down with these specs? 

F2.8 center point. Is that terrible I know most canon zooms are no faster than that. But 11 pts? Seems sort of week when comparing to the D600. 

I am however optimistic about the sensor that alone could be worth the upgrade otherwise I may jump on a 5D2


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## floex712 (Sep 14, 2012)

DianeK said:


> floex712 said:
> 
> 
> > DianeK said:
> ...




I do apologize, I was not attacking you. You stated you are not fully versed on how to achieve proper exposure and that need all the technological help you can get, I read that as you depending on the technology too much to be comfortable with going full manual. That was my interpretation and I sincerely apologize that would come off as an attack. You are correct, usable images on either 60D and 7D cut off at about ISO 1600 in my opinion. Really wasn't attacking you but you must admit that most people feel the higher end their gear the better their photos will be. When I am out and about, people always start with, "my [camera model] has 18MPs", not understanding that the how the camera processes the images is where the quality is at not the resolution. By the way, in your defense I am a bit of an a-hole, I hate when "joe blow" has enough money to buy a 5D Mark III and thinks he's a photographer. But I was NOT attacking you, again, I am very sorry I came off that way. 

P.S. Agreed, the better low light/high ISO performance in the D800 alone is really a confirmation that Sony has indeed stepped up the newer sensors, 60D or 7D are NOT on par.


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## mattneto (Sep 14, 2012)

Are they actually going to announce this soon? Feel like Nikon will have the upper hand if the D600 gets all the press. Does Canon even have a press event scheduled?


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## scrup (Sep 14, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> Sorry I didn't read all 14 pages but is the auto focus not the biggest let down with these specs?
> 
> F2.8 center point. Is that terrible I know most canon zooms are no faster than that. But 11 pts? Seems sort of week when comparing to the D600.
> 
> I am however optimistic about the sensor that alone could be worth the upgrade otherwise I may jump on a 5D2



Af is what was lacking from the 5dii.

If its all points are crosstype then it will be better than a 40d and i will be definitely happy upgrading to 6d.


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## AvTvM (Sep 14, 2012)

not even a popup flash on that FF-Rebel???

What a piece of sh.t ...


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

mattneto said:


> Are they actually going to announce this soon? Feel like Nikon will have the upper hand if the D600 gets all the press. Does Canon even have a press even scheduled?



doubtful...this rumor doesn't even have a CR rating. Press is one thing, announcing is another thing...but actually available? Let nikon have the press, and cross fingers that this spec list is false, and that canon can start shipping these out once announced! (why bother announcing a launch at all for this camera with this spec list)...

One thing about this rumor though that does have me thinking...

If correct, then a new sensor? Why a new sensor? We are all looking to the 1dx flagship for the trickle down (high ISO, lots of AF, fast). But, what if this sensor is actually derived from the big MP camera? Maybe it will end up being a sacrifice of AF for greater DR? It at least answers the Q of why a new sensor when they have both the 5d2 and 3 sensor to draw upon. But, it still makes no sense because the only way we'd be psyched on such a sensor is if the big MP cam was already out there (then this would be that bodies little brother)... I still think the better bet is that this rumor is totally false and meant to stir up trouble!


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## DianeK (Sep 14, 2012)

floex712 said:


> I do apologize, I was not attacking you.


Thank you, accepted


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## Musouka (Sep 14, 2012)

If they are going for a 60D-sized body, they might not have been able to fit the 7D AF module in. They might have prefer to have the smallest and cheapest FF body instead.

Maybe we can get a sense of the size of the body by comparing the kit picture with the 5DIII kit? Here is something I did quickly. This is by no means perfect as the lenses are not exactly matching in the image but should provide a general idea.







I'm sure someone else can do a much better job ;D


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## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

mattneto said:


> Are they actually going to announce this soon? Feel like Nikon will have the upper hand if the D600 gets all the press. Does Canon even have a press event scheduled?



Word is Canon won't announce it on Photokina (but show off the 5d3 and 1dx+24-70ii which is here at last) but on US Photoplus expo October 24-27.


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## extremeinstability (Sep 14, 2012)

Cheap rebel T3, rebel T4i, 60D, 7D, 5DIII, 1Dx. The 5D II can't really even count as a "line" as it's not, just old and so cheaper now and obviously replaced. So basically that is the line up. It seems rather certain canon has to be in the process of coming out with a big megapixel camera. Surely there is a need to battle this with a great sensor.... http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html . They have everything else covered. I don't get how it's possible for them to even put out something under the 5D III. Though yeah a $2000 D600 gives them problems with that. It seems as though whatever was going to come out for the big megapixel cam, would have to somehow have to try and fit in there. The 5D III should have been that, as far as their line goes. I don't see how a 7D II happens and winds up full frame. I don't see how they could just cancel the 7D and stick an underspec'd full frame cheaper 6D thing in there either. And of course it's possible they update the 7D to II and also stick out a 6D in there to compete with the D600. But then they'll have the 5D III, 1Dx and then also a big megapixel cam? At this point in the camera game, I don't see why they'd at all want so many cams. That is a lot. Course yeah no worse than pre-1Dx I guess. 

All I know is I wish they had an answer to that D800 dynamic range and nil shadow noise already, as I'm ready to hop out of the rebel line again. And gasp, it matters to me, while speed and focus doesn't. Hopped up once before and had a 5D II for a while. It's going to feel pretty weird having the exact same camera as back then as the go to option lol. I will love it again 95% of the time. Till that image with big dynamic range comes along and I have to push the shadows, only to see vertical banding madness. If I didn't have a dirty, needs to be cleaned, 100-400 that would cost another grand to hop over to Nikon over... after cleaning, selling and replacing with Nikon equiv...I'd for sure be jumping to D800/Nikon for the first time in 9 years now. And the biggest aspect to this is, if canon had something to answer that, oh I think they'd be falling over themselves to get an announcement out there, before all those it matters to are gone.


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## aznable (Sep 14, 2012)

11 af points? they borrowed the AF System from sigma sd1 or pentax k5 ... who knows

if you want to bring on the market an affordable FF camera you have to price it lower than older FF models

current price here in italy are

5d mk2 1610.50€
nikon d700 1827€

so you have to cut down costs as much as possible


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## Helevitia (Sep 14, 2012)

Although I don't want to believe these rumored specs, I'm starting to think more and more they are real for the simple fact that The 7D firmware was bumped to 2.0. Also, the specs are slightly better than the 5DMK2 except for the FF sensor which is why they are calling it a 6D instead of a replacement for the 5DMK2. 

Of course, this is just speculation. Time will tell 

I'll keep my 7D for now unless the reviews show otherwise or the specs are wrong.


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## jfretless (Sep 14, 2012)

DianeK said:


> floex712 said:
> 
> 
> > DianeK said:
> ...



Diane,
One thing you said that I have to comment on, "a better sensor is going to give me better image quality." I truly believe the current belief the less noise, the more ultra sharp an image is, the better the image is a fallacy of the current "generation" of photographers. As they say, history repeats... do a google search for "pictorialists" and "straight" photography. A lot of parallels can be drawn with the current "instagram" and "dslr (for a lack of a better term)" types of photography. A cell phone camera image processed through instagram can stir and raise the same emotion as a dslr setup worth $7K. Back to my original point, "Come on people, it not the technology that makes a great images, it's the content."


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## htjunkie (Sep 14, 2012)

I was intrigued by that photo, so I downloaded a 5D III picture, and matched the size of the 24-105mm on both pictures. This is what it looks like. Significantly smaller than the 5D III. Looks like the deal. 

If those specs are real, then that Nikon D600 + 24-85 kit lens are becoming more and more exciting.


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## mystic_theory (Sep 14, 2012)

I just watched a movie (Salmon fishing in the Yemen) where the government PR chief in the beginning said something like "give me some piece of good news, something, anything to say"... the day after the D600 has been presented, even my aunt would have gotten some 6D specs published on canonrumors. :-[


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

jfretless said:


> Back to my original point, "Come on people, it not the technology that makes a great images, it's the content."



I'll say it again ---it's NOT the content!!!! Take a bad photog and give them wonderful subject matter and you fail fail fail. Take a great photog and give them nothing and they may make you surprised! Part of being a photog is having the 'eye,' and part of that is seeing things, spotting things, noticing things that others do not see. A great photog can make a piece of trash look good - but a bad photog can make something that looks awesome appear to be a piece of trash..(ok, not said as i did originally)


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## shannon76 (Sep 14, 2012)

So everyone, compared to what Nikon's D600 is offering and based on the recently released specs and pics (real or not) what is the most you would pay for this camera? I'm going with $1600.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> I'll say it again ---it's NOT the content!!!!



Not to dispute what you're saying - but that the discussion in a 6d specs thread heads into this direction proves that Canon might screw up big time if the price tag for the 6d is not a steal. But maybe they could add stickers to every camera box: "Please ignore the specs and the competition, it's all about you being a good photog!" :->


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## jfretless (Sep 14, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> jfretless said:
> 
> 
> > Back to my original point, "Come on people, it not the technology that makes a great images, it's the content."
> ...



Chuck,
I didn't know we were aruging... 

I agree with everything you said, but I think you are only seeing part of my point. ...how about... would you agree that a great image has more to do with content rather than the technology used to capture the image? When I see a great image, the first thing that comes to mind is NOT what kind of camera was used.


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## steliosk (Sep 14, 2012)

an articulated screen is a priority!!!
i want to buy a cheap FF, but i won't if it doesn't have an articulated screen


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## MartinM (Sep 14, 2012)

JBL said:


> cpw has an image of the 6D.



Now this looks like a hires pic.

Two things are different. There is this nice little "lock" button on the mode dial. This is diffrent from the lower built EOS. This wasn't there on the 7D not on the 5D2. That was available as a 400 bucks upgrade.

The mode dial of the 60D is more rounded on top. This mode dial is different from 7D, 60D. Looks more like the one from 5D3.

The plastic covers of the connectors is different from the 60D or other EOS bodies. Looks like something new. Obvious if we assume that there is a GPS build in. A99 has built in GPS.

When I saw the first leaked 5D3 images from the safari guy, everyone doubted that it was a new body. Only the new M-FN button and the power on switch were revealing a new body.

I guess that the pic is true, but the specs must be wrong. The specs were changing all the time for the 5D3 too. Same applies to the 6D. Look back to the initial rumors of 2011 on 6D 

Cheers
Martin


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## SDsc0rch (Sep 14, 2012)

BUILT-IN GPS & WIFI

!!!


WHAT TOOK THEM SO G*****N LONG?!?

(and yes - i'm yelling!!)


we can put gps in these teeny-tiny cellphones that teenage girls slip into their front pockets, it can connect to every wifi standard (PLUS cell ph tower) known to man.......... yet a ten pound canon 1DX can't seem to fit those tiny lil circuits into its MASSIVE body


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## Saracyn (Sep 14, 2012)

Shortest shutter speed is 1\4000 !!!!!!!!!! :'( :'( :'(
They are CRAZY!!!!   
Goodbye shooting with open iris (f\1.2-f\2) in a sunny day! Or welcome a hemorrhoids with ND-filters!

P.S. Sorry for my english, i'm a russian wedding photographer. :-[


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## MartinM (Sep 14, 2012)

I am surprised about how much anger and disappointment is in these discussion.

I was always thinking that me, with my Olympus E-5 gear was on the poor side. Now I am noticing that the Canonians are no different. 

I am a two system owner and both vendors don't seem to get it right ...

Cheers
Martin


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 14, 2012)

jfretless said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > jfretless said:
> ...



not argueing...just saying that content alone does not a great image make...just as a badass camera alone does not a great image make. 

all that said, there is another topic devoted to gear vs image quality. Canon can't do a marketing campaign on a $2000 camera telling people it's not the camera its the content! And that's what we should be talking about --- how not worth even talking about these specs are. Yeah, it's the photographer that takes the great pic...but... that doesn't mean a crap body should be bought... I'll just stick to my 7d/5dmk3 combo if I want a sucky camera to be backup to my main body (I still like my 7d, but, the mk3 beats it at every turn from Af to color cast to IQ....lol)

I was hopeful for different specs... 21 point AF at least (with the same battery as the mk3 and the 7d and mk2!!!!)...

can i still get a decent shot with it? Yes, but, given the choice I'll keep the 7d as back up (or save my pennies for another mk3 or a used 1d4) rather than shell out 2k on that...

so I'm actually totally agreeing with you in a weird way... I'm just fired up cause these specs suck xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx....lol


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## Marsu42 (Sep 14, 2012)

SDsc0rch said:


> WHAT TOOK THEM SO G*****N LONG?!?



It's useless if it hasn't got a precise "camera direction" compass, otherwise I'm perfectly fine with my external tagger that doesn't drain the camera's battery.



MartinM said:


> I am a two system owner and both vendors don't seem to get it right ...



That's the depressing thing - Canon could get it right, and they actually did with the most of the 5d3. It's currently isn't their fault Sony doesn't license their tech to them but to Nikon. It's just that Canon's knows people are stuck to the brand because of the lenses/flashes and exploits it. And their marketing is very clever and goes to any lengths to make you buy the most expensive stuff by building annoyances into intermediary products. Meanwhile Nikon seems to produce more "complete" products, that's at least true for the d7000 and d600.


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## DianeK (Sep 14, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> And their marketing is very clever and goes to any lengths to make you buy the most expensive stuff by building annoyances into intermediary products. Meanwhile Nikon seems to produce more "complete" products, that's at least true for the d7000 and d600.


Very well articulated indeed.


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## hmmm (Sep 14, 2012)

shannon76 said:


> So everyone, compared to what Nikon's D600 is offering and based on the recently released specs and pics (real or not) what is the most you would pay for this camera? I'm going with $1600.



Agreed - I would consider 1500 the maximum "fair" price for a camera of this spec but I could stretch to 1600 maybe. Just because I've already got some decent glass. Beyond that, the D600 looks to be the better price/performance value. Oh well, it is CR1, and if the "new" sensor is really lower read noise and higher DR that could change things a little. 

If this spec turns out be true, and the price is really D600 less only ten percent or so, there will be a lot of people making the transition to FF who will be choosing Nikon. 

I used to be a bit of a canonista, but I'm getting more brand agnostic every day. ???


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## JPL_1020 (Sep 14, 2012)

11 AF points with a price tag of $2100??? So this a 2K camera because it is FF and it has built in GPS and Wifi - BUT with an ancient AF System? : Ridiculous!!!  Canon needs to do better if they want to compete with the D600. I hope the spec is purely rumor....SMH


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## Wahoowa (Sep 15, 2012)

If the specs are true, besides GPS and wifi features and without knowing anything else besides the specs, it's just like having a fresh & updated look to the 5D Mark II. And it will be in the market for the next 2-3 years. A major failure if you ask me.


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## Woody (Sep 15, 2012)

Canon's entry level T4i/650D has a 9-point, all cross-type AF sensor.

I cannot see how the 6D can have an 11-point AF sensor with ONLY 1 cross-type at the center.


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## RC (Sep 15, 2012)

Funny thing is that this 6D (and this thread) wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the existence of the D600. Seems like Canon is clearly in a defensive mode just trying keep Nikon from consuming a specific segment of the market (and I do understand that is business). 

Although I like the built-in GPS and WiFi, I believe it is only being added to help lure (primarily) the consumer market from the D600. With the new GP-E1 and E2, there is no way that Canon would add GPS up front. Would I like built-in GPS and WiFi? Sure, but not over AF, build, and form factor. These things aren't "sexy" and won't lure the common consumer. Let Nikon have this new "entry FF" market. 

Canon, how about quit playing defense and go on the offense and offer a killer FF body for us serious hobbyists? Keep it in the $2000 - $2500 range, basically a scaled down 5D3. 

Disappointed but not surprised with the 6D specs. Still hoping the specs are inaccurate.


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## viaissimo (Sep 15, 2012)

„The Truth of the digital EOS lineup“ for Canons diary, I hope someone in charge for the Canon-EOS-digital-product-line will read here what’s a little bit wrong with the EOS-DSLR-lineup.
I did start to use Canon EOS back in 1996 with an EOS 50E (ELAN IIE). Through the pre-digital years my Canon gear grew by EOS 5, 3, 1V, quite a lot of fixed- and zoom-lenses, Speedlites and accessories. Canon was innovative (think about IS, AF-eye-control, DEP-program, 45-AF-sensors in EOS 3, anti-shake-timing in EOS 10, etc.), more stylish but cheaper than Nikon. So, there are Canon-users like me out there who did spent a lot of money on EOS-gear in the past. For those folks it’s not so easy to switch to Nikon or other vendors than for the guys with one EOS-DSLR and one or two lenses in their bag, I think you know that, but I also think you owe us attention as you did grow with our help.
In 2004 I did start to look out for Canon DSLRs. I can understand that APS-C sensors were the right choice from an economic point of view in the early days as sensors where much more expensive, but that sensor-format did also puzzle all focal-lengths of EF-lenses and zoom-reflectors of older EX-speedlites, a nightmare from the photographic point of view if you had a lot of EF-lenses. So APS-C could only be a temporary workaround for guys like me. To spend again in APS-C gear is close to completely switch the vendor, also there where only little EF-S prime-lenses in the near past.
Eight years later, I think, there still is no attractive EOS-FF-camera. I don’t earn any money with photos, it’s just an intensive hobby. So it’s not that easy to spend a lot of money for that expensive gear. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that much a matter of price, it’s a value-for-money thing! And you did mess up value for money quite a lot since the digital era, i.e. upper level and high-end DSLRs are nowadays about 2 times higher in price than these segments have been in film-era, but entry- and consumer-level cameras came down to about the same price as analog SLRs have been. So what happend here? Of course we have to pay your firmware- and sensor-development additionally, on the other hand side we save money on not having to buy and develop films any more. That would be an argument for higher DSLR prices compared to film-SLRs. But what about the price-shift in the upper segments? I think you take quite a lot more money for the upper segment DSLRs to fund the highly competitive entry- and consumer-market!
Bad luck for me, as in FF there still is only the overpriced upper- and high-end level left, less value for more money. Let me compare EOS 50D and EOS 5D Mk2 as they where introduced nearly at the same time: list-prices about factor 2 difference (street-price-difference even worse!), 5d Mk2 with 1Ds-style-sensor and video-capability in a quite 500D camera-housing (less quality AF, no flash, no AF-light, no (A-)DEP-program, worse X-Sync, less metering range, less fps even relative to MPx-difference) – that’s not what I understand as „value for money“.
So don’t screw us up with that EOS 6D (?) once again, pamper us with features and value for money. Don’t let us be jealous on Nikon-guys (I’m really very sorry to say, I am since the D700) any more, but let us be proud again to have chosen a Canon in early days! I don’t want to wait over and over again for a FF-camera as you produce scrap over scrap!
At the end, some tipps as you desperately seem to need them:
don’t spend on MPx, raise high ISO, don’t invest in too much AF-sensors (useless without eye-control), but widespread, accurate cross- or x-type sensors for f/5.6, 100% should be state of the art since digital, DON’T forget the flash all the time (also for remote-control; sometimes it’s better to have a bad picture compared to having no photo at all, and charging batteries is not needed), as you raise ISO DON’T forget the AF-light (your AF without light isn’t that good!), swing-screen would be really nice, I never will understand why you discontinued the DEP-program (it’s a feature not often used, but nearly irreplaceable; nobody can tell me he/she can see how to stop down via the viewfinder, and DOF-scales are missing nowadays), no need for high framerates, no need for video, definitely NO NEED for touch-screen, IS would demand an improved anti-shake-program from EOS 10, AF-Microadjust is eagerly needed, forget all that sports/portrait/night/etc. programs, no need for all that built-in picture-effects, I do hope the sad odyssey of the power-switch is over since 7D (couldn’t be that hard to find the right place), also mode-dial and DOF-preview-button will be the same in the future as they are on 5D Mk3, weathersealing is must for that price


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## ishdakuteb (Sep 15, 2012)

MartinM said:


> JBL said:
> 
> 
> > cpw has an image of the 6D.
> ...



well, honesty i will more than happy to trade that lock buton for:
1. 1/8000 shutter speed
2. 19 focus points with all cross

are there anyone who thinks like i do?


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## DB (Sep 15, 2012)

MartinM said:


> I am surprised about how much anger and disappointment is in these discussion.



Not really surprising given that many CR readers & commentators have been discussing the merits of a 70D (new APS-C flagship) and the likely specs/features for a much improved 7D2...and just a couple of days before Photokina, out of the blue comes a series of stories about a potential new DSLR the 6D (obviously coincides with Nikon's D600).

It seems that the Canon DSLR product line has bifurcated into 2 streams; one very high-end (high price too), the other, a more nondescript 'run-of-the-mill' type DSLR with all of the latest faddish features (but at more reasonable prices), thus leaving a gap in the middle that is frustrating a lot of enthusiasts.


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## cliffwang (Sep 15, 2012)

RC said:


> Funny thing is that this 6D (and this thread) wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the existence of the D600. Seems like Canon is clearly in a defensive mode just trying keep Nikon from consuming a specific segment of the market (and I do understand that is business).



Same thought!


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## pharp (Sep 15, 2012)

Looks like an "almost" ideal travel/nature/landscape camera - smallish, weathersealed, GPS - if $2K for the body, I'll certainly consider one if the IQ is good.


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## DzPhotography (Sep 15, 2012)

ishdakuteb said:


> well, honesty i will more than happy to trade that lock buton for:
> 1. 1/8000 shutter speed
> 2. 19 focus points with all cross
> 
> are there anyone who thinks like i do?


yep me. You can even get that lock button installed on the 7D, if you want... :


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## EchoLocation (Sep 15, 2012)

hmmm said:


> shannon76 said:
> 
> 
> > So everyone, compared to what Nikon's D600 is offering and based on the recently released specs and pics (real or not) what is the most you would pay for this camera? I'm going with $1600.
> ...


I own a 24-105 and a 50mm 1.4 Sigma along with my 5DC. I wouldn't buy the 6D(at these specs) for any price.
i'm fairly happy with my 5DC overall, i just want to upgrade the AF and downsize on weight a little bit, with a little more high tech feel and better display screen.
If the camera really is these specs I will switch to the D600 or possibly the RX1/NEX FF(when it finally comes.)
I'm sick of Canon overpricing lenses and intentionally crippling camera bodies. If the lenses were expensive and the bodies innovative and competitively priced i'd have no problems(or vice versa,) but at this point i'm basically fed up with Canon. 
If the 6D is a 5DII with a 7D AF system I might pay 1700 max, but I'd still probably rather have the D600 at this point, or just buy nothing and wait for mirrorless FF to come.


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## Hillsilly (Sep 15, 2012)

viaissimo said:


> .....don’t invest in too much AF-sensors (useless without eye-control), but widespread, accurate cross- or x-type sensors for f/5.6.....



Couldn't agree more. I've got an older 1Ds Mk ii. If I decide to pick up something newer, one thing that I will be looking for is a wider array of focus points. Its a little annoying having 45 focus points crammed into the centre of the frame. What's the point? (Although, personally I'm hoping for the ability to focus anywhere via a touchscreen.)

Weathersealed, 4.5fps, small body, wifi and GPS and hopefully a street price well below $1999. What's not to like? But really, isnt it just a FF 60D for $1250 more? And with the quality of the APS-C sensors around, isn't everyone just getting tired of the "FF" talk as if it is a compulsory requirement for photography Nirvana?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 15, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name=\"googleone_share_1\" style=\"position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;\"><glusone size=\"tall\" count=\"1\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-6d-specs-leaked/\"></glusone></div><div class=\"tweetmeme_button\" style=\"float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;\"><a class=\"tm_button\" rel=\"&style=normal&b=2\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-6d-specs-leaked/\"></a></div>
> <strong>Canon EOS 6D Specs?
> 
> 
> ...



hmm and how does this possibly bring any non-Canon shooter into the canon world instead of Nikon world???
D600 blows the #### out of it. Unless you have tons of lenses or are dying to use certain lenses.... and a good number of those people might be wanting 5D3 or 7D or whatnot anyway perhaps.

just a rumor though of course


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## Chosenbydestiny (Sep 15, 2012)

DB said:


> I agree with previous commentators that calling this camera a 70D or 80D would make more sense that using xD nomenclature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



People still bought the 5D mark II over the 7D despite the inferior AF points so they could get something more valuable to them with sensor quality. However, at this point, I do think Canon needs to rethink 11 points. We just don't live in a time anymore where 11 points can compete.


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## samirachiko (Sep 15, 2012)

I love Canon. Always loved!.... I don't like Nikon cameras but...... if the 6D it will be so, the D600 Nikon is more and more BETTER!!! 

COME ON!!! CANON WE ARE IN THE 2012!!!! A built in TIME LAPSE AT LEAST!!! SOMETHING NEW PLEASE!!!!! WE DON'T NEED ABOUT A STUPID TOUCH SCREEN!!! WE LOVE PHOTOS AND VIDEO!!!! 

For NOW Nikon is BETTER... :-[


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## AG (Sep 15, 2012)

You know Canon could throw a spanner in the works and announce this as a 70D instead of a 6D.

Im guessing if they did that a lot of people would stop bitching about this camera being an xD series. 
Would also make sense as an entry platform for FF that isn't a "rebel".

Then the xD series can stay as the "Pro" cameras and keep everyone happy.


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## bvukich (Sep 15, 2012)

AG said:


> You know Canon could throw a spanner in the works and announce this as a 70D instead of a 6D.
> 
> Im guessing if they did that a lot of people would stop bitching about this camera being an xD series.
> Would also make sense as an entry platform for FF that isn't a "rebel".
> ...



I've always thought they should split the xxD line into a x0D APS-C and x5D FF. Release (for example) the 70D and the 75D at the same time, put about a $400 difference in the price, have the only significant difference be the sensor, and keep it on a strict two year cycle.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 15, 2012)

AG said:


> You know Canon could throw a spanner in the works and announce this as a 70D instead of a 6D.
> 
> Im guessing if they did that a lot of people would stop bitching about this camera being an xD series.
> Would also make sense as an entry platform for FF that isn't a "rebel".
> ...



i've been thinking this as well. If these were the specs of a crop camera, I'd say the price would be $1200 max. Make it FF, and still, it's $1500 max price and yeah, that would make this a 70D, which is appropriate.


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## Wahoowa (Sep 15, 2012)

Looks like more than one leaked picture. So, this could be real, but the specs are really disappointing.


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## EOBeav (Sep 15, 2012)

AG said:


> Im guessing if they did that a lot of people would stop bitching about this camera being an xD series.
> Would also make sense as an entry platform for FF that isn't a "rebel".
> 
> Then the xD series can stay as the "Pro" cameras and keep everyone happy.



I don't have a problem with them introducing a camera like this and calling it a xxD. But let's not dilute the xD series just because it happens to be FF.


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## Chosenbydestiny (Sep 15, 2012)

samirachiko said:


> I love Canon. Always loved!.... I don't like Nikon cameras but...... if the 6D it will be so, the D600 Nikon is more and more BETTER!!!
> 
> COME ON!!! CANON WE ARE IN THE 2012!!!! A built in TIME LAPSE AT LEAST!!! SOMETHING NEW PLEASE!!!!! WE DON'T NEED ABOUT A STUPID TOUCH SCREEN!!! WE LOVE PHOTOS AND VIDEO!!!!
> 
> For NOW Nikon is BETTER... :-[



I don't see Nikon as a threat for what I do because until now their camera sensors don't know what real people look like (Nikon skin tones, yuck). Canon does. I think that's their only real advantage to me now, the way their lenses and sensors make people look. It's like switching a pinto with a full tank of gas for a ferrari with an empty tank (pretend like you're in the middle of nowhere and gas doesn't exist for miles). Nice specs but... will it do what you want it to do? Nikon is useless to me even if they had 1 billion AF points and ISO 10 stops better as long as they keep making photos look the way they do, and I've shot full frame and pro bodies on both sides. I won't even begin with ergonomics or interface. Nikon is a joke to me. The reasons why I switched to Canon are still the reasons I intend to stay now. So no, Nikon is not better. It's better on paper, perhaps. But not in real world true-to-life photography.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 15, 2012)

I think everything will depend on its price. For this specs, if priced between 1500 and 1700, it's acceptable but 2100? Canon is just kicked assed by Nikon.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 15, 2012)

Chosenbydestiny said:


> samirachiko said:
> 
> 
> > I love Canon. Always loved!.... I don't like Nikon cameras but...... if the 6D it will be so, the D600 Nikon is more and more BETTER!!!
> ...



Yup, that's the only thing Canon now has but it's always doable in post-processing. You can change the hue, the contrast, the saturation. But you can't add details lost because of your inferior sensor. Ok, photographers with your requirements might be satisfied by Canon but there are a whole lot of other type of photography. Canon won't survive just by catering to your requirements.


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## Wahoowa (Sep 15, 2012)

7D has its specs like this:

- 19-point all cross-type AF (f/2.8 at center: Dual Cross Sensor)

Is it possible that the 6D specs should read:

- 11-point all cross-type AF (f/2.8 at center: Dual Cross Sensor)

If it is, this camera is not too bad after all. But, still, flash sync at 1/180 and highest shutter speed at 1/4000? That leaves to be desired.


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## Chosenbydestiny (Sep 15, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Chosenbydestiny said:
> 
> 
> > samirachiko said:
> ...



Wrong. There are gradations in color that can't be recovered or added by processing. Nikon can't get that look, I've processed both to no end to prove this in the past. And if you look at the Nikon forums (which is chaos btw), it's the same complaint going around on why Nikon can't get their photos to look like Canon's. I don't need to be catered to. I'm happy as long as they keep releasing products without sacrificing the way things are supposed to look. In fairness to Nikon, Canon's biggest mistake was riding on Nikon's idea to make cameras more user friendly and have mushy processed jpegs from noise reduction (Nikon supposedly fixed this over time, but I still see it) so that they could cater, and I mean really cater, to the average idiot. They're not going to lose marketshare from real photographers until I see more Nikon users than Canon at the white house. At the moment, all I see are big white lenses and/or red rings.


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## Verbian (Sep 15, 2012)

First time poster, long-time lurker(thanks for letting me eavesdrop these past years).

I currently use a 550D for which I own some nice glass. Just a guy who likes to shoot photos for himself and I've always been looking to go up to Full-Frame, and that time is getting near. The rumors of this camera have really been keeping me enthralled. Under $2k or $2k for a new full-frame! 5D MKII is a great option, but I don't want to buy used, and $2K for a great camera, but I figured a newer camera would allow me to wait longer before I upgraded in the future. 

If these specs hold out, I think I'll get get a 5D MKIII. The "silent" shutter release option really appeals to me as I shoot pictures during award presentations at work. The ISO performance would also be a huge selling point of the 5D MKIII.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 15, 2012)

Chosenbydestiny said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Chosenbydestiny said:
> ...



Ok, you made your point. However, those photographers you are talking of are just the current ones. How about the new and upcoming photographers? Most of the Canon professionals now got into Canon because AF is first introduced successfully by Canon. But things change. Once those new photographers got enticed with the Nikon system, less and less will go to Canon. It may not be now, or in 5 years time but Nikon is certainly building their foundation for the future. Unless Canon fixed it so that new photographers will still prefer Canon, time may come that Canon becomes the new Kodak. I don't want that to happen because I'm already invested in their lenses and is still looking to invest more. I think we're on the same boat at that. Right now, I'm having second thoughts acquiring a new lens (UWA) just because I want a system that will work for me in the future.


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## hyles (Sep 15, 2012)

The only think i really don't understand is the AF, I am not bothered by the 11 poit, but it seems strange to have just central poit cross type, it would be better the 60D 9 cross type point.
But anyway the only think i will focus on is IQ, if it will be great, and i think it will be on pair with 5DIII, i will get it, for my use 20 mp it is enough, 4.5 fps either.
I would like 100% wiefinder, dual card, crop mode in fullHD, all cross type focus point... but i can even live without those if IQ is good.
Diego


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## Richard8971 (Sep 15, 2012)

More I learn of the specs of the "new" 6D, I wonder if one should just stay with the 5D2?

It seems like more of what Canon did to the 60D, they "downgraded" it so it wouldn't compete with the 7D, which it would have if they had continued the trend with the XXD series. Seems to me a solid 5D2 would be a better choice over the 6D. Just my opinion. Sorry Canon. 

D


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## Chosenbydestiny (Sep 15, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Chosenbydestiny said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



You're right about the market having to cater to the new and upcoming, but I'm disappointed because both Nikon and Canon are now doing this at a higher level than their rebel and semi-pro series (actually, I was unhappy when they did it to the xxd line too). Not too long ago, you could buy a pro level body for a pro level price and get pro features. Now, they're going to sell an amateur level body that has a pro sensor, for a pro level price without pro level features that cater to the up and coming crowd. It made sense at first. But now that I realize how it's going to affect the pro level users (mostly on pricing and what we get for that price) I'm not too happy. And we're all here talking about it now because one way or the other, we're not happy with at least one thing from these "leaked" specs. We all wanted that 2500$'ish 5D successor. Instead, the prices and lines got stretched up and down and we're going to lose a lot of value if these specs are true for the price it's rumored to be.


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## chrissp (Sep 15, 2012)

The specs list indicates specifially that the centre AF point is 2.8 cross type. This doesn't mean that the outer points are not cross-types. If the list is to be true, I am inclined to think it is 11-pts ALL cross-types AF, with the other 10 being normal 5.6 cross-types (D600 has 9 cross types).

Canon gave 9 cross types AF points to 650D, I seriously don't think they will give 6D just 1. Canon is not stupid (i think). All other specs look plausible to me although 1/180 sync looks out of place.


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## starship (Sep 15, 2012)

*i won´t buy a 2012 fullframe camera with a sub-par autofocus system...*

11 autofocus points? +- like an entry level dslr
1/180 flash-syncro-speed? worse than any other canon-dslr
1/4000 shutter speed? even my VERY old 40d from 2007 has 1/8000s
100.000 shutter durability???

will i spend 2.000 $/euro for such a body?

no way!

i can´t believe, that canon tries to sell THAT as a "semi-pro"-body.

no, thx. i will not be a buyer.


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## Bosman (Sep 15, 2012)

As another poster said, if this is a 6d then the quality should be that of a 7d or better to get closer to how Canon names their cameras. This sounds like an 8d if it takes Sd only. What a joke. If these spec's are true then the thing i do while on the throne could be my contribution. If it takes a cf card and has at least a 7d focus system then i will get back to being curious.


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## hmmm (Sep 15, 2012)

*Canon security getting better?*

Just time out to say: Canon will probably announce something next week and all we really have is a leaked G15 image. Canon seems to be getting better at keeping a lid on things.

Who knows? -- maybe this CR1 leak is from Canon itself to see how the user base would react to a $2k dumbed down FF camera. Ahem. : Not going over big. Not at all.


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## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 15, 2012)

Really no need for this. Just cut the 5D2 price to ~$1500 and the 5D3 price to ~$2500 to sandwich the new plastic amateur body from Nikon and call it a day.


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## Aglet (Sep 15, 2012)

If this thing comes out as spec'd I won't be surprised.

IMO, the 5Dc and the 5D2 were both just FF Rebels with only the 5D3 really stepping forward in features and performance. Something a tad lower-end, but newer, makes a better setting for the 5D3 to shine in.

Until you compare it to the competition's offering.

I'm sure Canon's marketing guys are getting no sleep this week, trying to figure out which variation of product to announce and what day to make it available to milk the most money from the eager public.

_You want performance with that?_


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## vuilang (Sep 15, 2012)

if the rumor specs are correct. I have no intention to buy this body. even for $1500


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## Pitbullo (Sep 15, 2012)

I think these specs are all bogus. Canon are just trying the Apple PR - method. Say nothing, comment nothing, just release what they want, when they want. They look at these forums and laugh their ass off! Why? Because, if people were not interested in their product they would just ignore them. Instead people are yelling and shouting and cursing, which mean they are dedicated. That is all canon need to know, because their lenses are what keeps the amateur, hobbyist and professional shooters loyal to the canon camp, as they/we are heavily invested in all the glass. P&S buyers and first time DSLR buyers just buy what the salesman says. 

So, do I think the 6D is for real with these specs? No, but Canon wont rush to prove otherwise, just because we are yelling at these forums. They really really don´t care, because no matter how much we scream and shout here, when the cameras are in the store, we buy them anyway.


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## pwp (Sep 15, 2012)

Wow! Eleven focus points. That's progress. 
The spec list reads pretty much as beige mush.
I doubt this camera exists.

-PW


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## MartinM (Sep 15, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> That's the depressing thing - Canon could get it right, and they actually did with the most of the 5d3.



You said it right, most.

My 5D3 does neither have USB3 nor a built in GPS, nor support for UHS-1. My 90MB/s SD card is slowed down to 45MB/s. 

Looks like the 6D is gone have some of these missing things. UHS-1 and USB3 is a standard today.

Cheers
Martin


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## Marsu42 (Sep 15, 2012)

Pitbullo said:


> I think these specs are all bogus. Canon are just trying the Apple PR - method.



Could be true - and Canon might even have slipped bogus horrible specs so everyone will be pleasantly surprised if the real thing is announced in October because it's a little better than expected! Delivery will take until October 2013 anyway.



MartinM said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > That's the depressing thing - Canon could get it right, and they actually did with the most of the 5d3.
> ...



I guess the sd card slowdown is just braindead money saving and because the Canon testers only used fast cf cards and the sd as a jpeg backup, so no one had a problem with crippling the controller. Same goes for USB3, they might use a card reader in the pc which puts less strain on the camera connector. Concerning gps - let's see if it'll have a preicse heading, just for position I'd prefer a logger in my pocket with its own battery.

But I fear Canon will not upgrade tech in the 6d, just downsize it - the 5d3 is just too new too leave it look outdated. The one thing I can imagine is phase af pixels on the sensor for live view like on the 650d.


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## mystic_theory (Sep 15, 2012)

Wahoowa said:


> Looks like more than one leaked picture. So, this could be real, but the specs are really disappointing.



Did people from the Photoshop 101 class got to post on CR for homework?


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## Musouka (Sep 15, 2012)

As much as I would like USB3 it is hard to say it's a standard feature in DSLR bodies yet. Both the Sony A99 and the Nikon D600 use USB2 so I don't see any motivation for Canon to do that here. Now, if the camera is going to use SD as its storage medium then it would be a crime not to support UHS-I.


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## RGomezPhotos (Sep 15, 2012)

I think these specs make a lot of sense. For the REAL beginner, this is a pretty darn nice camera. This is basically a Super Rebel. And I really like Rebels. Yes, the 1/4000 shutter speed isn't great. But even as a semi-pro, I rarely use it. An amateur even less.

I see this as a $1200 - $1500 camera. So it will under-cut the Nikon D600 by about $500 if I am right. If I was a beginner and wanted full-frame at the lowest price, I'd have to choose the Canon. I consider the Nikon to be a better camera, sans the metal body. But money is money.

Except for the shutter speed, this really does replace the old 5DMKII. If I had to choose between the 5DMKII and the 6D, it would be a tough call. Performance vs. Features. As a semi-pro, performance is more important and it's the 5DMKII. 

But there is a large price gap now. It would make sense if they put in this new 20MP full-frame sensor and built-in WiFi/GPS into a 7DMKII and price it right there in the middle. That would be a damn fine camera.


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## willis (Sep 15, 2012)

So that picture.... Mixed 5D2 and 7D with like 650D inputs? HAH!


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## funkboy (Sep 15, 2012)

My question is: if it is indeed 20MP, why the heck did they develop yet another FF sensor? Or are these things now as easy to sling together as a happy meal from mcdonalds? Surely it would have cost less to make dumbed-down slower versions of either the 5dIII or 1DX sensors (or maybe even re-jig the old 5dII sensor) than to develop yet another one from scratch?

Perhaps they needed to go the route of yet another FF sensor because it's their first FF design with an integrated phase-detect AF sensor like the 650D?


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## daniel_charms (Sep 15, 2012)

funkboy said:


> My question is: if it is indeed 20MP, why the heck did they develop yet another FF sensor?



They're Canon. They did it _because they can_.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> Where Nikon has outfoxed Canon is that their camera at about the same price ($2099 is close enough to $1999) but with 20% more pixels. Nikon were able to deliver a 24MP FF camera at $2099 because their next model up camera has substantially more megapixels - 36. Canon's product lineup below the 1DX is screwed. They really need to throw it out and start over.



Your post is interesting in so far as this "pixel counting" is the exact thing most inexperienced users will do, and that drives the sales of the bulk of non-pro camera bodies.

Of course if you look at the resulting picture sizes no one gives a damn about the differences between 18mp and 24mp, if you want a real usable difference it's 36mp+ like the the d800. It's much more about iso performance, dynamic range at various iso levels, camera firmware features like af tracking, handling and build quality. All these things aren't in the "core" specs but are much more important than a little more or less mp.


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## NotABunny (Sep 15, 2012)

For the price, the specs sound acceptable, but the details are going to make it or break it for me. More specifically, the combination between an autoexposure that exposes the subject properly (meaning low light or backlit scenes) and shadow recovery (so I can use the RAW to get around the bad autoexposure).


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## simonxu11 (Sep 15, 2012)

Nikon D600 got a very positive preview from Imaging-Resource

"Many of you will doubtless find yourselves equally impressed--not just with the samples, but with what this camera offers in terms of bang for the buck. That's almost certainly going to mean demand outstrips supply for the foreseeable future. *Our advice? Get in queue now, before it gets even longer."*

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/13/hot-off-the-press-huge-nikon-d600-gallery-posted


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 15, 2012)

daniel_charms said:


> funkboy said:
> 
> 
> > My question is: if it is indeed 20MP, why the heck did they develop yet another FF sensor?
> ...



As long as they can increase the DR, 20MP is enough.


----------



## samirachiko (Sep 15, 2012)

vuilang said:


> if the rumor specs are correct. I have no intention to buy this body. even for $1500



Agree with you! 

At least an articulated screen, CF cards!, built in time-lapse, something new for who love taking video ecc.... 

Without these features, for the first time in my life I will buy a Nikon camera: D600........ 
COME ON CANON!!! WAKE UP!!!


----------



## ecka (Sep 15, 2012)

Most likely, these specs are just made up, because:
*a)* "APS-C Sized body" doesn't make any sense. Maybe some bits were lost in translation, so we've got "APS-C Sized body" instead of "APS-C Sized sensor" and those are 70D specs.
*b)* "11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center" doesn't make much sense as well. How many cross-type in the center? 1? 5? 7? 60D and 650D got all 9 cross-type.
*c)* If "APS-C Sized body" somehow means that it is smaller than 5D/1D, then I doubt that it would be xD series camera. SD card slots are reasonable for smaller bodies. However, a single SD card slot in $2000 body is just ridiculous and if they did that just to keep the price as low as possible, then the "Built-in Wifi & GPS", "Weathersealed" body and a new FF sensor doesn't make sense at all.
*d)* IMHO, only 5D(something) can replace the 5D2. Writing random numbers on cameras is a Nikon thing, not Canon. Let's call it 5D2minusCF ;D


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 15, 2012)

RGomezPhotos said:


> I see this as a $1200 - $1500 camera.




ROTFL.....


----------



## CanNotYet (Sep 15, 2012)

I actually spoke to a Canon salesperson today, and he said there were "rumors" within the company, that a new cheaper FF is in the works. Metal body, price just a little less than a 7D. If this is the one he was speaking of, I'd be first in line. These specs for 2k = joke. These specs for 1.2k = GIEF!


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 15, 2012)

CanNotYet said:


> Metal body, price just a little less than a 7D. If this is the one he was speaking of, I'd be first in line. These specs for 2k = joke. These specs for 1.2k = GIEF!



i say no way.... i would even bet on it.

i would be suprised if it cost more then 200$ less then the D600.


----------



## crucial_extreme (Sep 15, 2012)

someone working in a retail in the uk told me...

the price point in the UK will be £1799

its a 20mp camera with only 1 card slot SD/SDHC... stock will arrive in December.


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 15, 2012)

crucial_extreme said:


> someone working in a retail in the uk...
> 
> the price point in the UK will be £1799
> 
> its a 20mp camera with only 1 card slot SD/SDHC... stock will arrive in December.


The price is including 24-105 or not?? £1799 is close to $3000


----------



## crucial_extreme (Sep 15, 2012)

only the body £1799


----------



## zim (Sep 15, 2012)

Well from the early days of the 5D3 rumours I’ve been looking for a FF 650D looks like Canon are about to deliver!
The 5D3 is of course a fabulous camera and I’d have one in an instant if either of these were true
a) I could afford it
b) I was earning money with it
Unfortunately neither are true although I will be able to afford it at some point but I don’t like the time scale.

As a 500D owner looking to upgrade a FF650D would clearly be just that and I do feel that I’m right in the middle of the demographic this camera is aimed at (not pro’s looking for a cheap backup body)

I do have a few concerns though
1. If it doesn’t have AFMA
I’ve never had a digital camera with AFMA so I just don’t know how important it is too have this on EF /FF body, I need to do my homework and get a clear understanding of the tolerances involved. Maybe without AFMA camera/lens performance will be acceptable for me as an enthusiast? Is this a ‘black or white’ thing or is it more something that pro’s require? I just don’t know.

2. The top flash sync speed does seem slow, not too happy about that but it is still just rumour

3. 650D has 9 cross-type, that’s fine but shouldn’t be less than this because that’s the reason haven’t gone for a 5D2

…… and then of course getting a 650DFF price point would allow me to get better glass keep taking pictures and upgrade the body to a 5D3 when the price has come down a bit in a year or so…… Sounds like a plan!

If the camera exists at all I can’t wait to see the final specs


----------



## daniel_charms (Sep 15, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> crucial_extreme said:
> 
> 
> > someone working in a retail in the uk...
> ...



Nope, UK prices just tend to be higher like that. Amazon UK is currently taking pre-orders for the D600 at £1974.44, so if this rumoured price is true, then the 6D will be nearly 200 pounds cheaper than the Nikon.


----------



## aznable (Sep 15, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> crucial_extreme said:
> 
> 
> > someone working in a retail in the uk...
> ...



body only but it's cheaper than d600 that would be around 2000 pounds; in the rest of europe will be around 1800€ so it will retail around 5dmk2 actual prices (1600-1700). price a it too high


----------



## crucial_extreme (Sep 15, 2012)

Freelancer said:


> crucial_extreme said:
> 
> 
> > only the body £1799
> ...



Call me a troll at your own peril 

you'll come to know on Monday as who is trolling and who is trying to bash a new registered user 

if you've cared to read my earlier post then I have already mentioned as from where I got the information..


----------



## funkboy (Sep 15, 2012)

zim said:


> 1. If it doesn’t have AFMA



good call. I instantly wrote off the 60D due to its lack of AFMA. Especially with 3rd party lenses & AF-confirm adapters, the lack of it is a deal-breaker.


----------



## Chosenbydestiny (Sep 15, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> daniel_charms said:
> 
> 
> > funkboy said:
> ...



I agree with increasing the DR, but I'm skeptical as any other. Not saying it's impossible, because people did welcome the 5D series and knew what they were sacrificing performance wise, just so they could get the IQ. The 5D mark III is a beast with it's AF performance. A lower 5D with more DR is what we're all hoping for, judging from Canon's habits... Most likely not going to happen. As for the sensor, they do make their own sensor unlike Nikon who has to depend on Sony. Canon has repeatedly used the 7D sensor without releasing completely brand new sensors (aside from small tweaks) in the crop line, and perhaps in that time they developed a secret line of new sensors including what's rumored to be this 20mp one. Or... They just used that time to develop their new Cinema cameras, and we're still pretty much screwed for new bodies until they can recover. In the meantime while we all wait for that, I'm still enjoying shooting because of Canon's awesome lens lineup.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 15, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Chosenbydestiny said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



nothing stopped D700 to be a good seller compared to 5D2. WTH I'm just looking for a DR of 15 for 20MP. 16 will be heaven. If they can deliver it, for $1700, even with 9 AF points all cross-type, I'll buy it in an instant.


----------



## DB (Sep 15, 2012)

daniel_charms said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > crucial_extreme said:
> ...



The D600 is currently on sale in Ireland and the cheapest price is €2300 (> US$3000) see below for biggest Canon/Nikon dealer prices:

http://www.connscameras.ie/nikon-d600/p-vba340aepd.html

If the 6D is genuine and if it is priced just below the D600, then prices in UK & Ireland will be around £1,650 & €2,099 respectively. In both countries it will likely cost 500 more than a 7D.


----------



## zim (Sep 15, 2012)

funkboy said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > 1. If it doesn’t have AFMA
> ...



No, my problem is that I don't know if it is a deal breaker having never had a dslr with this! 

_But that's an interesting point you make about af-confirm adapters as I have FD lenses and I know the confirm point isn't quite right but I compensate for that. Would AFMA really allow me to correct this or is it too fine a micro adjustment to make any difference?_

Edit: rubbish AFMA has to register the setting for the lens and it doesn't recognise FD of course


----------



## bbasiaga (Sep 15, 2012)

ecka said:



> Most likely, these specs are just made up, because:
> *a)* "APS-C Sized body" doesn't make any sense. Maybe some bits were lost in translation, so we've got "APS-C Sized body" instead of "APS-C Sized sensor" and those are 70D specs.
> *b)* "11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center" doesn't make much sense as well. How many cross-type in the center? 1? 5? 7? 60D and 650D got all 9 cross-type.
> *c)* If "APS-C Sized body" somehow means that it is smaller than 5D/1D, then I doubt that it would be xD series camera. SD card slots are reasonable for smaller bodies. However, a single SD card slot in $2000 body is just ridiculous and if they did that just to keep the price as low as possible, then the "Built-in Wifi & GPS", "Weathersealed" body and a new FF sensor doesn't make sense at all.
> *d)* IMHO, only 5D(something) can replace the 5D2. Writing random numbers on cameras is a Nikon thing, not Canon. Let's call it 5D2minusCF ;D



As a 70D these specs make a lot more sense. even if it is full frame after all. I wonder if Canon would still be considered dead/over/Kodak/irrelevant/stupid if the chips do fall this way?


----------



## RC (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: EOS 6D should be $1500*



dilbert said:


> Yup, at $1200-$1500, this camera would sell. And sell well.
> 
> But at the same price as the D600, who's going to buy it?
> 
> ...


Furthermore, I don't understand who will buy this camera anyway. Who is it really marketed at? The consumer segment has no clue between APS-C and FF. FF is not an upgrade over crop, they each have their purpose (you don't upgrade your car by buying a truck, cars haul people and trucks haul stuff). Those that want to add a FF (like myself), will find the specs inadequate. So who is this thing for? All I see is Canon purely reacting to their competitor and not producing a product for their customers. Tell me where I'm wrong.


----------



## DB (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: EOS 6D should be $1500*



RC said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, at $1200-$1500, this camera would sell. And sell well.
> ...



You're not wrong per se, but what if the new norm is FF? It may only be a matter of time before all Rebels are FF, especially now that compacts (like the EOS-M) are using same APS-C sensor as T4i.

Look at it this way, all Rebel users who read this forum see that serious amateur/enthusiasts constantly dismiss crop-sensors as sub-par in the IQ stakes. After some time, all crop-sensor DSLR owners aspire to move up to FF, particularly if they've already acquired some good glass. Eventually, a manufacturer makes a more affordable FF body, and then everyone's expectations rise.


----------



## RC (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: EOS 6D should be $1500*



dilbert said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


And that does make sense....unfortunately.


----------



## Wahoowa (Sep 15, 2012)

mystic_theory said:


> Wahoowa said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like more than one leaked picture. So, this could be real, but the specs are really disappointing.
> ...



Oh, yeah, that's an intelligent post. Hope you feel better with yourself for it.


----------



## pedro (Sep 15, 2012)

At reading some of the posts in this 21 page thread at the time I feel happy for not having waited on an entry FF body. About 3 weeks ago I bought the 5D3 and yes, I paid full price 3,6 k at a brick and mortar retail shop but I do not regret it one moment. It is a tremendously versatile camera (I am a passionate amateur, sometimes making a few bucks on selling a photograph, or getting remunerated with a "reader photographer fee" if the regional newspaper publishes a picture I took. I do all the ISOs. H1 and H2 are just fine for b/w available light as the "grain" even after post still looks like in the old days with pushed Tri-X pan's ;-) I like this "feature". And even though the 5D3 price is high (I've saved up for a long time) it is worth it. Getting kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half the price is great. 
But a decent entry FF would make sense. The annoying thing in these specs is the SD only mode, and the AF unit. If the sensor is based on the 5D3's and 1Dx the lower MP count might even help IQ-wise. Warning: I am not a tech. So, if this cam will have H1 (51k) and (102k) it will deliever. And we'd get back to affordable FF days after a long time. Hope it doesn't break the 2k mark.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.
> 
> Canon's first big mistake was putting only 22MP in the 5D3 with a sensor that performs about the same as the 5D2.
> 
> ...



You must have gotten the MP kool-aid. MP's aren't everything! If the rumored specs said 24 MP, would that and that alone make this on par? No. Where the d800 differentiates itself from the mk3 isn't in mp's, but in IQ and DR at ISO 100-800, and above ISO 800 Canon takes the lead in both IQ and DR.

Back to why these specs suck. It isn't MP's --- if it said 40 MP's it would still suck due to only having 11 AF points with 1 cross type at the center, and sd card only memory (unless this new sensor fixed the DR issues - but if it did, then the 6d would be closer to $2800). Those are really the biggest issues. It's 2012, we shouldn't have to center point recompose on a brand new $2000 camera. I could even deal with SD only if the AF was actually modern - it doesn't need to be the 61 point of the mk3, but dang it use the 21 point from 7d or the 45 point from the 1d4. If it had at least that then it would be a worthy purchase and sit on my left side as backup to my mk3 (if the ISO performance is close to that of the mk3). As it stands, the throwback to 2008 AF is useless, and SD only would prevent any kind of burst shooting due because SD wouldn't be able to handle writing at higher speeds. So sorry, while I agree these specs are a big fail --- it isn't because of MP's...


----------



## pedro (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



Chuck Alaimo said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.
> ...


+1 Chuck Alaimo


----------



## zim (Sep 15, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> While I'm not in the market for this camera after buying the 5d3, I think you guys are missing the point... everyone griped they wanted an entry level full frame, they got it... To me, I think this is squarely put right there for those advanced rebel shooters and xxd users who have the option... Do you want to go full frame and get better IQ but NOT want to take out a second mortgage to get the 5d3 or 1dx, OR do you want a 7d (or 7d m2 whenever that comes to fruition). It's for that person that wants better images without all the fancy bells in whistles... That guy who may want GPS so they can utilize it for social media and the like... It's no 5d3 but it isn't trying to be either... While it doesn't get me excited per se, perhaps it would have many moons ago when I was a xxd shooter... It is what it is, an entry level full frame. Nothing less, nothing more.



For those wondering who this camera is aimed at awinphoto got it pretty spot on at page 4


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.



Totally irrelevant. What matters is if they out sell Canon. For the past several years, they have demonstrated a complete lack of ability to do so. Keep in mind, superior technical specs aren't the whole story - if they were, Betamax would have beaten VHS. 

EDIT: Not that I'm saying Nikon or Sony have superior technical specs...


----------



## azizjhn (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.
> ...



Agree since in there latest financial report says there interchangeable lens cameras units sales increased 47% compared to last year for the same period. I guess they have nothing to worry about.


----------



## gravy (Sep 15, 2012)

if the sensor has the new hybrid PDAF would that improve the non-(2.8)cross type AF points?
if the focus of non-(2.8)cross types is better with the new sensor would it matter then?
what have those with 650D said about the hybrid AF? any good?
I'm glad I got the 5DMKIII because this camera would tempt me.
to me, it is a case of buying more than you think you need vs. buying what you think will be sufficient.
I got more than I needed so I can't say that I wish I would have waited for something better to come along.
the 61 point AF is in another league compared to Rebel and 50D if had. it focuses in low light better than anything I've used before. I probably could do with out and be happy with 6D but it's a moot point for me now, some $4300 later!


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 15, 2012)

dilbert said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > While I'm not in the market for this camera after buying the 5d3, I think you guys are missing the point... everyone griped they wanted an entry level full frame, they got it... To me, I think this is squarely put right there for those advanced rebel shooters and xxd users who have the option... Do you want to go full frame and get better IQ but NOT want to take out a second mortgage to get the 5d3 or 1dx, OR do you want a 7d (or 7d m2 whenever that comes to fruition). It's for that person that wants better images without all the fancy bells in whistles... That guy who may want GPS so they can utilize it for social media and the like... It's no 5d3 but it isn't trying to be either... While it doesn't get me excited per se, perhaps it would have many moons ago when I was a xxd shooter... It is what it is, an entry level full frame. Nothing less, nothing more.
> ...


Cannot agree more mate. 
And I also agree Chuck Alaimo said MP isn't everything, the quality of the sensor is more important. However, I don't think Canon will address all the issues such as banding and low DR in base ISO in this entry level FF sensor. Just like Canon claimed the 5D3 sensor is a brand new one, but the reality shows there's no significant improvement from the one in 5D2. So they were unable to do in a $3500 camera, don't expect much from this one.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



It's called being functional --- Canon body experience --- XSI, 7d, 5d2, 5d3. The difference in AF on the 7d and 5d2 is miles wideand the 5d3 AF is miles ahead of the 7d. So yeah, MY expectation from a $2000 camera is that the AF would at least be on par with the 7d. 

SD vs CF. It's interesting because the 5d has both for convenient comparison ---where I can shoot as much as I damn want writing to CF, when it switches to SD, 3-4 shots and you get the red writing data light. I have found that the SD write speed is sooo slow that I don't even bother with putting an SD in there. CF cards of any speed though are lightening fast. Again, functionality ---this spec sheet has little to none of it.

MP's, so i guess the 1dx is worthless to you at 18 MP, and the nikon d4 must be an utter piece of garbage at 16.2 MP? Need I say more?


----------



## Wahoowa (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> Why is the number of AF points a better measuring stick than megapixels?
> I typically only use 1 AF point, so if the camera has 65, 64 of them are useless to me.
> And when one isn't good enough, I use live view.
> 
> ...



There are applications when live view is useful, however, there are much more of those that it's not.

Good for you that you can find only 1 AF point sufficient. However, for most photographers, that's not the case. Focus and recompose technique doesn't work well with fast primes when shot wide open. When I used 5D2 with 85L in well-lit area, even a slight move from an outer focus point would end up as the picture is out of focus.

So, to me, this camera would be a letdown if it has only 1 cross-type sensor. Still, I do believe that the leaked specs should read "11-point all cross-type AF (f/2.8 at center: Dual Cross Sensor)". 11 cross-type points would be a little disappointing, but definitely acceptable compared to only 1 cross-type.

I could have used this one as a backup if it has flipped screen and built-in flash. But it doesn't look like it's gonna come out that way.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> > MP's, so i guess the 1dx is worthless to you at 18 MP, and the nikon d4 must be an utter piece of garbage at 16.2 MP? Need I say more?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, both are useless to me. Now a Phase One IQ180 back with 80MP.... mmmm



Wow, so if thats what you expect then go to the MF forums because nothing canon or nikon is making will live up to your expectations...


----------



## unfocused (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.
> ...



A lone voice of reason. 

I can't believe this thread: 21 pages filled with enough whines for several vineyards. And, all over _rumored_ specifications. 

For years I've had to endure full frame fetishists telling 7D owners how inferior APS-C sensors are and how they are so discerning that they just can't be satisfied with anything less than full frame and we must all be blind or incompetent not to see any difference. 

Now, Canon _may_ be introducing a low-cost full frame model and suddenly it's all about the features. No one has seen a single sample image of what the camera can produce but that doesn't matter, because obviously no one can produce decent pictures without 18 autofocus points and 8 frames per second.

Get a grip. The _rumored_ specs reveal a camera that could be a significant improvement over the 5DII at hundreds of dollars less than what the 5DII sold for for years. 

Reminds me of the whining that occurred when the 60D was announced. Some people just couldn't understand how Canon didn't offer all the same features as the 7D but at $400 less. If you want a 5DIII buy a 5DIII. If you can't afford it...well I can't afford a lot of things either.

I love this camera and the specs. It is one more choice that I, as a consumer have. Canon's decision to offer this camera doesn't take away anything from me. It adds to my choices. And, because it adds to Canon's bottom line, that means even more choices for me in the future.

Go Canon!


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.
> ...


If I am not the shareholder of Canon, why I care much about their sales figure, I don't get a cent from them. So I don't care about who out sell who as long as one of them still produces something to suit my needs.
Canon got a top-ace sales and marketing team, they also have a good reputation from offering excellent things to pros, no one denies this.
Superior sales record aren't the whole story especially we are just consumers.


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 15, 2012)

Lets hope canon doesn't go the way Kodak Went... and we all know how that turned out. :


----------



## Diko (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



unfocused said:


> ... It is one more choice that I, as a consumer have. Canon's decision to offer this camera doesn't take away anything from me. It adds to my choices. And, because it adds to Canon's bottom line, that means even more choices for me in the future.



I agree with you about more choices, since I haven't yet bought the 5DM3. 

However other hobbyists like me that wanted to go to FF or upgrade for a particular feature (e.g. higher ISO) are frustrated for spending "bad" cash. *They feel being fooled.* 

Not a good strategy from Canon even if they ONLY wanted to compete D600


----------



## Khufu (Sep 15, 2012)

aaah, shucks...

I had just about convinced myself this was going to be a cheaper bodied (therefore ok to be) flippy-floppy screened, flash-poppin' "alternative/consumer/creative features" kinda model.

A 60D with a FF sensor, even at 18MP, would have done it for me... I know I've not been watching and hoping with the same ideals as everybody else but a FF 60D kinda made sense and really appealed to me! 

I totally see why some don't understand who this is aimed at - I'm one of those they've missed simply by excluding the above expected "entry level" features.

Having said that I may still invest in it... I'm definately either getting this, a 5D2 with Magic Lantern or 5D3 - So I'm still with Team Canon  


Just to clarify/Justify;
External flash triggering via Pop-up flash, a lá 60D, is awesome.
shooting from the floor, more so than above-head, with flippy-floppy screen is also ace.
Sad panda.


----------



## Musouka (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*

Wow, this topic is quickly turning into doom and gloom! 



dilbert said:


> Where you're wrong is that the design and planning for this camera probably started 3 or 4 years ago.
> 
> Thus what you see in this design is Canon reacting to what Nkon/Sony were doing then, not now.
> 
> The features (including sensor) would have been locked down sometime last year.



But do product development cycles really work that way? My understanding is that companies develop several prototypes of the same product which allows them the flexibility to match the market demand (or what they see as the market demand) at the time of release. Features are probably locked down months before the release date and not years. This might also be the reason why you can get conflicting rumors for the same product. That's because there are several prototypes in the wild doing the rounds.



Chuck Alaimo said:


> SD vs CF. It's interesting because the 5d has both for convenient comparison ---where I can shoot as much as I damn want writing to CF, when it switches to SD, 3-4 shots and you get the red writing data light. I have found that the SD write speed is sooo slow that I don't even bother with putting an SD in there. CF cards of any speed though are lightening fast. Again, functionality ---this spec sheet has little to none of it.



Isn't that because the 5DIII doesn't support the UHS-I standard for SD? With this technology, SD can rival CF in speed. Maybe someone should try this on the Nikon D800 to see how the SD fares against the CF?


----------



## danjwark (Sep 15, 2012)

I may be out in left field but Canon may have been a bit concerned that the D600 was going to be $1500. They were then in the position to try to come up with something to be in that range as well. Thus the 11 point AF etc. GPS and wifi were likely added to make it sound better as both of those cost next to nothing to add. Now that the D600 is out at a higher price with better specs, I can bet Canon is going back to the drawing board. These "specs" may have just been released to get feedback which if they read this forum, feedback has been loud and clear!


----------



## nicku (Sep 15, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name=\"googleone_share_1\" style=\"position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;\"><glusone size=\"tall\" count=\"1\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-6d-specs-leaked/\"></glusone></div><div class=\"tweetmeme_button\" style=\"float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;\"><a class=\"tm_button\" rel=\"&style=normal&b=2\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-6d-specs-leaked/\"></a></div>
> <strong>Canon EOS 6D Specs?
> 
> 
> ...




- A new 20mp sensor
Full Frame
 Interesting thing that Canon chooses to develop a new sensor. I believe the reason is very simple... not to cannibalize 5D3 sales.

- 4.5fps

Expected feature

- ISO Range 100-25600

Not bad for an entry lvl FF camera.

- DIGIC5+

 Expected.

- APS-C Sized body

I believe will be same as 60D body. Another feature that is expected.

- Weathersealed

 Not bad. 

- SD Card

 For an entry lvl camera is expected to have SD card slot. The big question is : will be dual card slots??

- Built-in Wifi & GPS

 Good to have features 

- 11 AF Points, f/2.8 Cross-type in the center.

Disappointing. ( . Is not making any reference to other AF points. they are all cross type? They will use the same AF as 7D but only with fewer points??? they are ''digital'' points or ''fixed'''like 5D2??

- 3″ LCD


Expected.

- Full HD (1920×1080)

Expected feature.

- Available December 2012

 Not bad. maybe will be announced at Photokina 

- Price: $1999 USD Body Only (Speculated price)

 Considering the new prices that Canon sell their new cameras is an expected and fair price. 


Most of the leaked specs are expected to be found in a entry lvl FF body. I am surprised by the In camera sensor approach and very disappointed by the AF system ( if the specs are true )


I still hope that the AF system specs are wrong. ???


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



But again, what _you_ think isn't relevant. Nor is what I think. What matters is what a majority of people do. 

Was the 5DII 'more compelling' than the D700? D700 owners sure didn't think so...but those D700 owners were very much in the minority in terms of market share. 

As I've said...show me the sales figures, quarterly reports, etc., then we'll know which brand wins. The most recent figures available have Canon with 15% more of the dSLR market than Nikon (and Sony we'll behind Nikon). Those figures don't include 2012 releases, but two years ago there was lots of talk about the entry-level and one/two steps up Nikon bodies being so much better than the Canon equivalents - and still Nikon continued losing market share to Canon. 

Keep in mind - the people discussing this issue here are not representative of the market as a whole. 

Consider this - brand loyalty combined with lenses/accessories already owned play a major role in future body purchase decisions for most consumers. Canon has a much larger market share than Nikon, therefore a much larger pool of potential upgraders. As long as Canon continues to dominate in the true entry level segment (APS-C sensor xxxD models), they'll continue to outcompete Nikon across the board.


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 15, 2012)

Digicame-info just updated the specs:

Viewfinder coverage:97%, Magnification:0.71X
Size: 144.5x110.5x71.2mm(not 114.5, my mistake)
*Af: A new strong low light detection model*

5D2 has a 98% viewfinder coverage, D600 is 100%
A new released Pentax k-5 II claimed their 11 point AF detection range is from -3EV, so Canon has a similar one??


----------



## RC (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



dilbert said:


> It's not always a question of "affordability". For me at least it is "value for money."
> ...





Diko said:


> ...
> However other hobbyists like me that wanted to go to FF or upgrade for a particular feature (e.g. higher ISO) are frustrated for spending "bad" cash. *They feel being fooled.*
> ...



Exactly, exactly! Spending 2k on a camera that only gets you half way there is a waste of 2k. I'll gladly spend more for a properly spec'd camera. I was prepared to spend $2500 for this new FF assuming it had the specs I wanted. And I do have money for a 5D3 but I'm having a real hard time forking out that much for a body so I'm in that boat with so many others that were hopefully this was going to be the ticket. Canon, I've got money to give you but not for this rumored 6D as it's spec'd.


----------



## learncanon (Sep 15, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> Digicame-info just updated the specs:
> 
> Viewfinder coverage:97%, Magnification:0.71X
> Size: 114.5x110.5x71.2mm
> ...



6D *114.5*x110.5x71.2mm
550D *129* x 98 x 75 mm
60D *145* x 106 x 79 mm

why is the 6D so short?


----------



## Musouka (Sep 15, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> Digicame-info just updated the specs:
> 
> Viewfinder coverage:97%, Magnification:0.71X
> Size: 114.5x110.5x71.2mm



For comparison's sake, here are the dimensions of some of the other Canon bodies and the Nikon D600

*650D* 133 x 100 x 79 mm
*60D* 145 x 106 x 79 mm
*6D* 144.5 x 110.5 x 71.2 mm
*D600* 141 x 113 x 82 mm
*7D* 148 x 111 x 74 mm
*5D2* 152 x 114 x 75 mm

So it sits between the 60D and the 7D in size.


----------



## Musouka (Sep 15, 2012)

learncanon said:


> simonxu11 said:
> 
> 
> > Digicame-info just updated the specs:
> ...



The original source actually says 144.5 so that was a transcription error.

The rest of the specs have been updated as well. It seems to support SD UHS-I.



> *Google Translated Specs (update 3):*
> 
> - Full size CMOS sensor is a newly developed 20.2 million pixel sensor
> - DIGIC5 + image processing engine
> ...


----------



## nicku (Sep 15, 2012)

*Any word about AF Microadjustment *.

If 6D will not have this feature *NO Way*... i will not buy it regardless of other features or IQ. like somebody said in the firs page of the topic.... I will sick with my 7D until i save enough to upgrade to 5D3


----------



## al2 (Sep 15, 2012)

When I look at the pictures earlier in this thread comparing the 5D3 and the rumored 6D, the enclosure for the viewfinder pentaprism seems SOOOOO small. How do they get 97% coverage and 0.71x magnification out of something so tiny?


----------



## Musouka (Sep 15, 2012)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Consider this - brand loyalty combined with lenses/accessories already owned play a major role in future body purchase decisions for most consumers. Canon has a much larger market share than Nikon, therefore a much larger pool of potential upgraders. As long as Canon continues to dominate in the true entry level segment (APS-C sensor xxxD models), they'll continue to outcompete Nikon across the board.
> ...



That's what happens when you achieve enough market penetration. Case in point: the iPhone 5. It delivers less from a technological standpoint than many of its competitors but will still sell loads more even if enthusiasts call it boring and uninspiring. The differentiation factor is the ecosystem. 

These companies are just doing what their shareholders desire the most: deliver the lowest-cost product at the greatest price in order to maximize the shareholder's equity. Challengers would of course put more bells and whistles in an attempt to lure buyers in. The leaders would figure out what's the least amount of options they can get away with while still convincing buyers of the viability of their systems. That does not mean that every now and then the market won't be demanding something revolutionary but that doesn't happen often. If the leaders miscalculate, they risk losing up their edge to one of the challengers who will then inherit some of the leader's characteristics with time. How long does it take to unseat a leader is anyone's guess.


----------



## friedmud (Sep 15, 2012)

Is it possible that this is the Landscape shooters camera?

I could give a rat's ass about # of AF points as long as they give me incredibly clean and deep 20 MP at ISO 100.

Canon has recently been very focused on high ISO. I would love to see a camera more focused at clean low ISO performance...


----------



## hmmm (Sep 15, 2012)

friedmud said:


> Is it possible that this is the Landscape shooters camera?



Well, I've chimed in with my observations like many ... but if this camera does have a new-technology sensor that has low read noise and a DR on a par (or better) to Nikon's -- and if these 11 af pts are new low-light points (closed loop?) that play a lot better than you might think 11 points would ... then ... this 6D may interest me after all.

If that is indeed what is coming ... well that would change things, eh? 8)


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 15, 2012)

hmmm said:


> ... but if this camera does have a new-technology sensor that has low read noise and a DR on a par (or better) to Nikon's



Won't happen, not only to protect the recent 5d3 but as people who know a thing or two about sensors stated Nikon's exmor tech is patented and they'd very surprised if Canon could develop something similar but not too similar in a few months' time. 

Btw: I hope the d600 will be sold a lot and reviewed with excellent results, in this case Canon will at least pressed not to cripple the 6d firmware - unlike the body core specs, they have ample time until december to change the firmware in view of their market position.


----------



## limelight (Sep 15, 2012)

As a 7D owner who plans to add a FF body to my gear, I have been waiting for this announcement. As the actual details of the Nikon D600 were released, I realized that what might be coming from Canon might also be more along those lines. These latest round of Canon specs seem to confirm that what's coming is more of a cannibalized version of several models than a stripped-down FF. All-in-all the specs from my perspective look puny for the price. I will wait for the "official announcement" before making any purchase but now I'm leaning in the direction of buying a 5D2. I think for my needs and budget this would give me everything I want in a known product (no surprises and or issues to stumble into with a brand new model) and the price keeps coming down.


----------



## vettefan8 (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



RC said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > It's not always a question of "affordability". For me at least it is "value for money."
> ...



Well You can spend an extra $250 and get the real deal (5d mark III) with warranty from a canon authorized dealer. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body-22-3-Megapixels-USA-Warranty-/390468355036?forcev4exp=true#ht_11952wt_1163


----------



## RC (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



vettefan8 said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


Show me a reputable and authorized Canon dealer selling unopened USA warranty models below $3400. If its too good to be true then there is something fishy.


----------



## EvillEmperor (Sep 15, 2012)

What I find funny is how people were sooo disappointed with the MK III and said they'd keep their MK II. Now, people who said they'd "upgrade" their MK II to this, they say it's not worth it. What I also find interesting are the 7D users who want to upgrade to this. Besides more MP and better low light, you arn't getting much more. You most likely bought the 7D over the MK II for the speed and AF. Just wait a little longer then get a MK III, I see in some places it being $3,000 now.


----------



## emko (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



vettefan8 said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



wow is that for real? that's like 800$ cheaper then the ones in store here.


----------



## Musouka (Sep 15, 2012)

RC said:


> vettefan8 said:
> 
> 
> > Well You can spend an extra $250 and get the real deal (5d mark III) with warranty from a canon authorized dealer.
> ...



What have you got to lose? It's a highly-rated seller ( Feedback Score of 115437) who is listed as a "Manufacturer's Authorized Reseller" on eBay and, in the *unlikely case* this turns out to be a scam, you are protected by PayPal.



dilbert said:


> If the iPhone 5 is just meant for upgraders then yes, you're right. otherwise, Apple is losing market share and they know it. Hence all the court cases.



The initial shipment of the phone sold out in mere hours. It's still is the best-selling phone and would likely be in the near future. Anything else is debatable. Apple are known to be overprotective of their technology. They might be losing potential market share (they actually gained some market share recently) but that's still hard to guage since the smartphone market is still expanding rather quickly.


----------



## lola (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



RC said:


> Show me a reputable and authorized Canon dealer selling unopened USA warranty models below $3400. If its too good to be true then there is something fishy.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body-22-3-Megapixels-USA-Warranty-/390468355036?forcev4exp=true


----------



## CANONisOK (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



vettefan8 said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Done! What a nice way to wake up from my nap! Or did I?


----------



## bdunbar79 (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Canon is out foxed.*



RC said:


> vettefan8 said:
> 
> 
> > RC said:
> ...



Or your store's name is Adorama.


----------



## Trovador (Sep 15, 2012)

limelight said:


> As a 7D owner who plans to add a FF body to my gear, I have been waiting for this announcement. As the actual details of the Nikon D600 were released, I realized that what might be coming from Canon might also be more along those lines. These latest round of Canon specs seem to confirm that what's coming is more of a cannibalized version of several models than a stripped-down FF. All-in-all the specs from my perspective look puny for the price. I will wait for the "official announcement" before making any purchase but now I'm leaning in the direction of buying a 5D2. I think for my needs and budget this would give me everything I want in a known product (no surprises and or issues to stumble into with a brand new model) and the price keeps coming down.



Did I write this???. Agreed 100%.


----------



## lopicma (Sep 15, 2012)

This camera looks good to me. I ran the original page threw Google translate:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigicame-info.com%2F2012%2F09%2Feos-6d-20.html

I like the GPS and WiFi feature in addition to the rest. Of course anything is a step up from a Rebel XS!


----------



## gtog (Sep 15, 2012)

Wow! 24 pages and still going strong. How about a deep breath and a little longer perspective?

Ten years ago in September 2002, there were several choices in Canon full frame SLRs, notably the EOS-1 V, Elan 7, and the newly released Rebel Ti. These could all use the same sensors, usually from Kodak or Fuji, and were generally only good for 24 or 36 exposures before needing to be replaced. Yes, film! Digital SLRs were APS-C or APS-H, not full frame.

Now, ten years later, our current, non-cinema, Canon full frame SLR choices (in order of decreasing price) are EOS-1D X, 5D mkIII, 5D mkII, and EOS-1V (as priced at B&H today). Yes, the current least expensive full frame SLR is an EOS-1 V!!

Much has happened in those 10 years. Perhaps we should consider the amount of time it takes to get really proficient with a camera relative to the perceived amount of time before it is "obsolete". In this thread, the latter seems to be getting vanishingly small. These are not mobile phones with cameras with a 6 month product cycle but tools to be used and useful for years.

I am glad the technology has been advancing to give us more full frame digital choices (2 new ones so far this year alone -- not counting cinema) and there is now rumored to be one that will be more affordable than the EOS-1 V! Rumored specs are less important in the big picture, not that specs are uninteresting or will not be important when there is an actual camera to spend real money on.

Overall, I view the rumored specs favorably.

The 11 AF points, particularly if all cross type with a center dual cross is an improvement over the 5D and 5D mk II and all the APS-C DSLRs (except the 7D, numerically). It is not reasonable to expect a full frame camera to share the 7D AF sensor due to the different mirror box geometry for full frame and and EF-S capable APS-C cameras. (The 10D did use the same sensor as the Elan 7, and later the Elan 7n, but the 10D was before EF-S and not compatible with it).

The built in GPS and Wifi are a bit surprising, but welcome.

A 20MP sensor in a, roughly, 60D size body seems reasonable at the rumored price. Remember, Canon is reputably working on automating camera manufacturing. Remember also what they did to the industry when they introduced the AE-1 in 1976!

I really look forward to an actual announcement and real product reviews of this. Too much speculation eventually becomes too much noise.

G


----------



## lopicma (Sep 15, 2012)

It just looks like Canon wants everything on a DIGIC5 processor for now. Most likely for manufacturing ease.

I would think if you have a camera that is less than 2-3 years old, these new bodies are not that important. I hope Canon can get a hold of the "growing pains" with the new cameras. Some of this stuff is so weird... namely the rubber on the T4i.

At least on paper, the T4i looks as good as the 60D, but only use and familiarity with both will tell the truth on that matter. This 6D looks compelling to me, and full frames may be the trump card for DSLRs in answer to the popularity of Compact System Cameras and the mirror-less bodies. I had hear that CSCs are making up 50% of the Asian market now. That has got to be effecting DSLR makers future decision making... even if they do sell BOTH types of camera.


----------



## Gcon (Sep 16, 2012)

What a huge dissapointment. Canon have to bury that horrible horrible 5D AF system. No excuse for not having all cross-type AF. Also, WTF would their entry level FF have built-in wifi and GPS and not the top level 5D3 and 1DX? Can


----------



## Kanikani (Sep 16, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> シャッターの耐久性は10万回 [/b]
> 
> shutter life: 10,0000
> [/b]



10万回 mean 10 of 10'000 ie 100'000


----------



## Diko (Sep 16, 2012)

I also think it is way too early to say anything...

** - this new CMOS* - even with less MPs would it get better images, better dynamics or not?
** - WiFi* - I can really fantasize a lot what new exciting possibilities can be used - e.g. Laptop/iPhone distant controlled camera... even timelapse ;-)
** - APS-C Sized body* - What is that supposed to mean? I have a 40D and I have seen 60D the difference between the two is huge and I favor the bigger body....
** - - AF unit (PS) is a strong new low brightness* can anyone translate that for me in NORMAL english not in GOOGLE translator, please ))

My point is that 6D specs leak is still one BIG NOTHING! 

Remember this terrible idea of touchscreen and now APS-C body...?!?!

Do you all remember the discussions here on the 5DM3?

Let's sit and wait ;-)


----------



## daniel_charms (Sep 16, 2012)

Diko said:


> ** - APS-C Sized body* - What is that supposed to mean? I have a 40D and I have seen 60D the difference between the two is huge and I favor the bigger body....



Well, the putative dimensions of this camera were actually posted a few pages back and someone also posted a size comparison between the rumored 6D and a few existing cameras: it appears to be somewhere between the 60D and the 7D in size, or in other words, basically the size of a 40D (except a bit thinner).


----------



## skoobey (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't get this, I love my 5dII, and would like to see something in 30 mpix,50-25600iso range, with built in wi fi for cable-free shooting.

I don't want a smaller body, or a touchscreen or GPS or any of those gizmos.


----------



## NeoMustain (Sep 16, 2012)

Other than the 11 AF with 1 cross type I don't see anything that is a disappointment from a lower cost FF DSLR. What did you guys want. A MkIII at $1500?


----------



## Gcon (Sep 16, 2012)

NeoMustain said:


> Other than the 11 AF with 1 cross type I don't see anything that is a disappointment from a lower cost FF DSLR. What did you guys want. A MkIII at $1500?


All new FF DSLRs should have dual slots, preferably of the same type

That way you can save to 2 cards at the same time for added safety. The first wedding you shoot where the card gets damaged before dumping the shots - you'll agree with me.


----------



## NeoMustain (Sep 16, 2012)

Why should a Pro wedding photographer go for a low end FF? That's probably not the target market. Wedding photogs make a lot of moolah so they should not be skimping on the investment


----------



## robbinzo (Sep 16, 2012)

Canon, just give us a FF with 7D features for goodness sake.


----------



## daniel_charms (Sep 16, 2012)

Gcon said:


> NeoMustain said:
> 
> 
> > Other than the 11 AF with 1 cross type I don't see anything that is a disappointment from a lower cost FF DSLR. What did you guys want. A MkIII at $1500?
> ...



Wouldn't having built-in wireless eliminate the need for a back-up card slot, though?


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 16, 2012)

NeoMustain said:


> Wedding photogs make a lot of moolah so they should not be skimping on the investment



Not when they start their business they don't, and they don't need as many af points as on the 5d3 which are made for servo af. Actually the 5d3 with the center point af should be quite sufficient for weddings, if it wasn't for the a little higher banding and less very high iso capability.



daniel_charms said:


> Wouldn't having built-in wireless eliminate the need for a back-up card slot, though?



... if you have a high end mobile phone or laptop with enough battery power & hd space around to accept the raw files wireless, then maybe - if the firmware allows for an immediate push transmission. But still just a second card should be more convenient.



NeoMustain said:


> Other than the 11 AF with 1 cross type I don't see anything that is a disappointment from a lower cost FF DSLR. What did you guys want. A MkIII at $1500?



I cannot imagine it is really just one cross like on the 5d2, much more likely it's just one high sensitivity cross. But to answer your question: Of course no one expects a 5d3 for $1500, but some (including me) expect a firmware- and hardware-crippled body that is designed to protect the 5d3 and is nowhere near the d600.


----------



## joemod (Sep 16, 2012)

dilbert said:


> daniel_charms said:
> 
> 
> > Gcon said:
> ...



I am not an American, but what does an American have to do with a camera with a damaged memory card? Unless you were sarcastic in which case I apologize.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 16, 2012)

I wanted to upgrade to FF, but oh well... I'll just upgrade later. Meanwhile, I'll just continue shooting with my trusty old 500D.

All, 500D + 100mm F2.8, freshly shot around our condo. It just reminds me how fortunate I am to have a DSLR that works.


----------



## rcstyle (Sep 16, 2012)

After i saw 5Dmk3 deeping below $3000... i really wonder if the 5d3 will make it down to $2.5K maybe refurbished canon soon.

with the spec of the 6D i might save a bit more and get the 5d3 now that its around $2800 on ebay. other might say $800 will get you a nice L lens, Im talking about the body here.


----------



## akiskev (Sep 16, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> All, 500D + 100mm F2.8, freshly shot around our condo. It just reminds me how fortunate I am to have a DSLR that works.


Nice pics, wrong topic


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 16, 2012)

akiskev said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > All, 500D + 100mm F2.8, freshly shot around our condo. It just reminds me how fortunate I am to have a DSLR that works.
> ...



Hahaha! Sorry. Just got bored reading this thread (but still hoping this isn't true). I just hope Canon announces already the new 6D. I really want a new FF but if it's not what I expected then I'll just buy a new lens. You see, I want a 5D3 but due to budget constraints I'm looking at the entry FF.


----------



## tron (Sep 16, 2012)

NeoMustain said:


> Other than the 11 AF with 1 cross type I don't see anything that is a disappointment from a lower cost FF DSLR. What did you guys want. A MkIII at $1500?


Of course not BUT there is a very similar camera to 6D named ... 5DMkII. But everyone considers it "old" so it is a nice trick for Canon to create a similar camera (and in many aspects a lesser one) name it 6D and ask the same amount of money 5DMkII costs now!


----------



## SwampYankee (Sep 16, 2012)

rcstyle said:


> After i saw 5Dmk3 deeping below $3000... i really wonder if the 5d3 will make it down to $2.5K maybe refurbished canon soon.
> 
> with the spec of the 6D i might save a bit more and get the 5d3 now that its around $2800 on ebay. other might say $800 will get you a nice L lens, Im talking about the body here.


I only saw the 5D3 dip below 3K once. That was Beach Camera. Does anyone know if they are legit and did any one actually score one? I see it near 3K every once in a while but those look grey market or from sketchy ebay sites. I guess my great hope is hat the 6D pushes down the 5D3 by a few hundred dollars. I'm in at 3k. Right now 3.5k looks like a bridge too far. It has to come down no?


----------



## Musouka (Sep 16, 2012)

SwampYankee said:


> rcstyle said:
> 
> 
> > After i saw 5Dmk3 deeping below $3000... i really wonder if the 5d3 will make it down to $2.5K maybe refurbished canon soon.
> ...



As mentioned earlier, if you live in the US then you can still get it at $2750 on eBay from Adorama; an authorized Canon reseller. They seem to be clearing their stock for their new year. 

Check this thread:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9408.0


----------



## mirekti (Sep 16, 2012)

Reading these posts I didn't quite get what would the sensor be?
Would it be the one from 5D II or they developed a new one?

I'm not in big MP, but I'd jump in for a better dynamic range and good high iso. Not sure that those two go together though.


----------



## Musouka (Sep 16, 2012)

It seems they have developed a new 20.2MP sensor. Part of the reason to do so might have to do with the Hybrid AF like the ones used for the 650D and EOS-M.


----------



## Meh (Sep 16, 2012)

tron said:


> NeoMustain said:
> 
> 
> > Other than the 11 AF with 1 cross type I don't see anything that is a disappointment from a lower cost FF DSLR. What did you guys want. A MkIII at $1500?
> ...



Right!!!


----------



## Meh (Sep 16, 2012)

joemod said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > daniel_charms said:
> ...



Just ignore him... it's a typical response. "I know what I'm doing and that wouldn't happen to me therefore if it happens to you then you must be an incompetent whiner so go learn to use your gear but don't ever hope to be as good as me because I'm awesome".


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 16, 2012)

2099$ for the 6D if we believe adorama...... same price as the D600.


mhm.. without my canon glas i know what i would buy... not the 6D if the specs are correct.


----------



## bbasiaga (Sep 16, 2012)

SwampYankee said:


> rcstyle said:
> 
> 
> > After i saw 5Dmk3 deeping below $3000... i really wonder if the 5d3 will make it down to $2.5K maybe refurbished canon soon.
> ...



Beach/Buydig is legit. They have a non-ebay website and a retail store. I did not get in on that deal but have bought several things from them over the years , going way back to the original Digital Rebel. On other forums buyers who did get in on that deal got what they ordered. i just got in on the Adorama one. It feels too good to be true. 

I am still quite interested in the real specs for the 6D. The MKII it is replacing was such an icon, it will be interesting to see how popular it gets with some AF advancements, etc. There has been so much hate, fear and disappointment already, whatever happens is bound to be interesting.



-Brian


----------



## theyapici (Sep 16, 2012)

i think it will beat 5d md2


----------



## ecka (Sep 16, 2012)

11 point AF? ???
Seems to be not much different from 9.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 16, 2012)

ecka said:


> 11 point AF? ??? Seems to be not much different from 9.



Well, the two more next to the center one in comparison to my 60d should come in handy even for very basic af tracking. If the 6d af is at least a very precise on all points (i.e. closed loop, all cross with *all* lenses unlike 5d3) I'd be fine with it since I don't shoot sports. But in comparison to the Nikon d600 it's still a very weak spec.


----------



## ecka (Sep 16, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > 11 point AF? ??? Seems to be not much different from 9.
> ...



Yea, I just hope it's all wrong info and it will have 19 point AF system from 7D + CF card slot + vari-angle LCD (touchscreen should be nice for AF tracking in movie mode). :


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 16, 2012)

NeoMustain said:


> Why should a Pro wedding photographer go for a low end FF? That's probably not the target market. Wedding photogs make a lot of moolah so they should not be skimping on the investment



that depends on what stage in your career your at! /(also, cost of living, do you have a family, kids, car payments --even if your making $60K a year shooting weddings once you take out taxes and all the other costs of doing business, that leaves a pretty thin salary margin/reinvestment capital --- everyone's personal math is different though, for a single person $60 is great...)

Also --- the way I see it, this camera could have been made and marketed to the pro wedding crowd ---some of us can't afford 2 mk3's. Having a baby mk3 as a second body would not be a bad thing at all. And that's the source of my disappointment - this is no baby mk3 (note, I wasn't deluding myself into thinking ohh they'd make basically an mk3 for 2k --- but I was at least expecting that more of the specs would line up - the biggest 2 being AF (should be at least a 7D level, but given what nikon has in the d600 - 11 points is a joke even if they are all cross type) and the ability to use CF cards. If you ask me, the weather sealing is wasted on this body - should just be plastic then they can run it at $1500 and it would sell like hot cakes.

The one and only intriguing thing about this body is that it has a "new" FF sensor. Could this sensor be a test of new tech that may be going into the big MP body? Could this be a preview of a sensor for canon that solves the DR problem? I want to believe that --- but, generally the new tech trickles down not up. If the big MP beast from canon was getting announced at photokina, then I could believe in this camera a little more (remember how much tech is shared between the 5d3 and the 1dx -- the 1dx was announced well before the mk3 but the mk3 was available far before the 1dx). But, the big mp canon only exists in the land of rumors. the 1dx/mk3 sensor is quite amazing in low light - and that's really what I don't get ---why couldn't canon just repackage the mk3 sensor in a 60dish body and gimp the servo mode, remove the silent shutter? That would be the baby mk3 I am looking for. And --- that would stack up much better against the d600, because as it stands , unless this new sensor can perform some sort of magic, at the same price point the d600 the winner no questions asked.


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## unfocused (Sep 16, 2012)

NeoMustain said:


> Why should a Pro wedding photographer go for a low end FF? That's probably not the target market. Wedding photogs make a lot of moolah so they should not be skimping on the investment



Wow! I'd like to hear from some wedding photographers on this. Every time I do the math, I never see how a typical wedding photographer can make "a lot of moolah."


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## DzPhotography (Sep 16, 2012)

Imho, it's all up to what you need vs what you can afford...


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## crucial_extreme (Sep 16, 2012)

The price in the UK will be £1799 for the body.

there will be 2 lens kits, one with 24-105mm

there are going to be 3 new compact cameras too.. (G15; S110; SX40)


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## bbasiaga (Sep 16, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> (i.e. closed loop, all cross with *all* lenses unlike 5d3)



I don't believe that is possible, since the lenses themselves are missing the second half of the closed loop. The couple of newer lenses that the MKIII works in closed loop mode with have a sensor that provides the feedback signal. 

-Brian


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## bdunbar79 (Sep 16, 2012)

unfocused said:


> NeoMustain said:
> 
> 
> > Why should a Pro wedding photographer go for a low end FF? That's probably not the target market. Wedding photogs make a lot of moolah so they should not be skimping on the investment
> ...



I did it. They don't. That's why I quit and took a day job and do photography as a second job. Much, much more money that way.


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## AvTvM (Sep 17, 2012)

wow ... http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,D600,D800

D600 sensor has same DR as D800 ... 6D will suck air.


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## Hillsilly (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm hoping the 6D will be a winner. If Canon doesn't continue to attract new people to the EF system, second hand prices will slump, making future upgrades / new lens purchases a little harder. Not that there appears to be anything fundamentally wrong with the 6D specs, but ín such a competitive market, I'm hoping the camera as a whole will be better than the sum of the parts suggests.


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## adamfilip (Sep 17, 2012)

Please Canon make the 6D a worth while upgrade

Basically just take the 7D and make a few tweaks

20.2MP Full Frame Sensor

5FPS

7D AF

Wifi and GPS built in.

CF and SD card slots

$1899


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## poias (Sep 17, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> wow ... http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,D600,D800
> 
> D600 sensor has same DR as D800 ... 6D will suck air.



Lol, do you think that matters with Canon or the customers? Sensor is the last thing that matters to regular public. They will more likely attracted by the bundled package including free UV filter, lens cleaning brush, and of course Canon's award winning customer service.


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## akiskev (Sep 17, 2012)

dilbert said:


> poias said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...


Suuure nobody reads the reviews.. The customers (at this price range) spend their 3k on a camera just because it has more megapixels than the rival model... Yea sure..

They guy who spends that amount of money for a camera is probably not part of the "regular public" (whatever that means).


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

adamfilip said:


> Please Canon make the 6D a worth while upgrade
> 
> Basically just take the 7D and make a few tweaks
> 
> ...



the train has moved boy.....


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## akiskev (Sep 17, 2012)

dilbert said:


> akiskev said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


It won't get a better review, and that's why customers are not gonna buy it. 
I think that D600 is gonna get better reviews, and that's why it's gonna sell more. Not because it has more megapixels.


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## RLPhoto (Sep 18, 2012)

K-amps said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...



HAHA HOW DOES THAT CROW TASTE?!


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## Bosman (Sep 18, 2012)

[/quote]

HAHA HOW DOES THAT CROW TASTE?!
[/quote]
LOL!


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## K-amps (Sep 18, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



Tastes like Canon pricing .

In my defense, I did say the second picture looked real. 

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=168962;topic=9385.180;last_msg=171811

By the way Ramon... I was rooting for your $1299 price


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## RLPhoto (Sep 18, 2012)

K-amps said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > K-amps said:
> ...



Indeed, I wont be buying 6D but a Used 5D2. It has that horrible thumb dial from the 60D and no multi selector. A No-No for for me.

YOU FAIL CANON.


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## K-amps (Sep 18, 2012)

scrappydog said:


> the funky nub on my....



You must watch DigitalRev TV and Kai's references to body parts.... or maybe I do


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## RLPhoto (Sep 18, 2012)

scrappydog said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, I wont be buying 6D but a Used 5D2. It has that horrible thumb dial from the 60D and no multi selector. A No-No for for me.
> ...



I Suppose. 

I don't like the vagueness in the 60D's D-pad buttons and using the Multi-selector button allows me to change AF points quickly and is the same though out all my bodies since my 20D. Its hard to break that muscle memory.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 19, 2012)

you forgot... 100-25600 native ISO. that must mean something.


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## psolberg (Sep 19, 2012)

akiskev said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > akiskev said:
> ...



bingo. Unlike the D800 which destroyed everybody offering the ultimate level of detail and quality outside MF, 20 vs 24 MP isn't going to make anybody decide one way or the other. However the D600 will indeed get better reviews because it is the better camera.


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## Aglet (Sep 19, 2012)

DxOmark just posted D600 test results. They're about the same as the D800's.
What will the 6D rate whenever it get's there?... (good luck, Canon)


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## Octavian (Sep 19, 2012)

Aglet said:


> DxOmark just posted D600 test results. They're about the same as the D800's.
> What will the 6D rate whenever it get's there?... (good luck, Canon)



I reckon the ISO will be a fraction better than the MkIII 
The DR hmm very close but it might be a point or 2 higher too!


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## chadders (Sep 19, 2012)

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-eos-6d-digital-slr-hands-on-preview-20218


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## K-amps (Sep 19, 2012)

Aglet said:


> DxOmark just posted D600 test results. They're about the same as the D800's.
> What will the 6D rate whenever it get's there?... (good luck, Canon)



Shouldnt it be a bit better with larger pixel pitch size of the D600?


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 19, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > DxOmark just posted D600 test results. They're about the same as the D800's.
> ...



that boat has sailed.


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## DB (Sep 19, 2012)

The one aspect of the DxO review of the D600 that did catch my eye immediately was the 14.2 EVs of DR, despite having 24.3 million pixels which is clearly a big step up from the 5D mark III's 11.7 EVs that is a whopping 2.5 stops more!

I think the better DR has to be a function of the *base ISO* of the EXMOR sensor in the D600 (which according to DxO the Nikon scores +700 ISO better in low-light sports than the Canon 5D3). I don't know if Nikon's processing algorithms are so much better than Canon's that this could explain away the large technical gap that has apparently opened up between the 2 camera makers ???

I mean is it hardware-related or software-related? If the latter, then Canon could close this gap pretty quickly without much additional R&D.


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## K-amps (Sep 19, 2012)

DB said:


> The one aspect of the DxO review of the D600 that did catch my eye immediately was the 14.2 EVs of DR, despite having 24.3 million pixels which is clearly a big step up from the 5D mark III's 11.7 EVs that is a whopping 2.5 stops more!
> 
> I think the better DR has to be a function of the *base ISO* of the EXMOR sensor in the D600 (which according to DxO the Nikon scores +700 ISO better in low-light sports than the Canon 5D3). I don't know if Nikon's processing algorithms are so much better than Canon's that this could explain away the large technical gap that has apparently opened up between the 2 camera makers ???
> 
> I mean is it hardware-related or software-related? If the latter, then Canon could close this gap pretty quickly without much additional R&D.




www.rentacoder.com


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## amalbabu (Oct 7, 2012)

Yeah .... It is officialy out 1-2 weeks ago. See *Canon EOS 6D Specification* here : http://news.entecity.com/canon-eos-6d-the-cheapest-full-frame-dslr-ever/

Read the early verdict on the canon 6d in that article. And comparison of 6D, 5D mark iii and nikon d600 is also there.

Hope you all ill find this article helpful...


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