# No new EOS R body shipping in 2019 [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 22, 2019)

> There have been mentions of a new EOS R body coming in Q4 of 2019 or Q1 of 2020. The new body has been rumored to be the high megapixel body, and not an EOS-1D X style mirrorless camera.
> We’re now being told that no new EOS R body will begin shipping in 2019, and it will fall into early 2020. There is still an off chance that an announcement could come in late 2019, but we think Canon will hold off until the CP+ show next February.
> I don’t think this should come as much of a surprise, as Canon needs to get those 6 new RF lenses to market before another EOS R series body hits the marketplace.
> Once the new lenses begin shipping, it’s likely there will be another boost in sales for the EOS R and EOS RP bodies.
> The same source said that a “higher-end” DSLR will be coming in...



Continue reading...


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## YuengLinger (Mar 22, 2019)

A big sigh of relief. More time to save up for it when it is released.


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## Go Wild (Mar 22, 2019)

How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it! 
I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 22, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....



I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.

The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.


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## RobDMB (Mar 22, 2019)

Now the question is, do you buy the R or RP to hold you over until then?


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## jam05 (Mar 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...





RobDMB said:


> Now the question is, do you buy the R or RP to hold you over until then?


Absolutely NOT. There are too many options available. Doesn't make sense for Canon to bypass wedding season for 2020 and release only pro level lenses without a pro body, placing there bets on a camera days before the Tokyo Olympics. My bet would be that Canon as usual is holding it's cards until this summer.


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## RobDMB (Mar 22, 2019)

jam05 said:


> Absolutely NOT. There are too many options available. Doesn't make sense for Canon to bypass wedding season for 2020 and release only pro level lenses without a pro body, placing there bets on a camera days before the Tokyo Olympics. My bet would be that Canon as usual is holding it's cards until this summer.



Meaning you think something will come out this summer?


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## David Hull (Mar 22, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....


Give it a rest already. I own an R and it is a fine camera but it could use some native lenses at least the 70-200 and 16-35 in the RF mount.


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## mb66energy (Mar 22, 2019)

RobDMB said:


> Now the question is, do you buy the R or RP to hold you over until then?


That is a question I always answer with
"If I am in NEED for FF I will go to the next shop and decide which camera I will buy" - at the moment the EOS R would win because RP is too crippled in some ways and there is more hope that features will be added to the EOS R (while this is non typically Canon to add substantial features per firmware update).

And the second part of the answer ist that the M50 with the EF-M 32 (and a small bunch of other lenses) is a lot of camera if you are interested in photographic or video RESULTS and not in nitpicking / pixel peeping (I do the latter but I am physicist and I am always stunned how good tech is today, especially lenses).


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## jam05 (Mar 22, 2019)

RobDMB said:


> Meaning you think something will come out this summer?


I do. Maybe I shouldn't say "Pro body". However a 5dmk 4 equivalent. Many photogs simply aren't gonna place their bets on a camera with one card slot. Why carry an X-T3 + EOS-R + 5dmk4?


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## Cryve (Mar 22, 2019)

Seems to me like a *7d iii* or 5d V release this year, with the *7d iii* far more likely.

All other "high-end" dsrl models are likely going to be transitioned into mirrorles. only those two (and the 1dx iii, in 2020) are heavily autofocus dependant and thus a dslr instead of mirrorles is the better choice for canon right now.


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## Viggo (Mar 22, 2019)

Wow, the trolls are persistent aren’t they...

Nothing new regarding the new lenses? What would be a sensible timeline? 6 months? I could use that 85


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## amorse (Mar 22, 2019)

I'm not overly surprised if I'm honest. Canon has previously stated that there are a lot of expectations on this upcoming camera and they want to get it right, so I am completely comfortable with them taking their time to do so. I need time to save anyway.

I have a hard time seeing a 5D IV replacement coming next though, it was released less than 3 years ago at this point which would be a much quicker turn around time than in the past.


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## Cryve (Mar 22, 2019)

amorse said:


> I have a hard time seeing a 5D IV replacement coming next though, it was released less than 3 years ago at this point which would be a much quicker turn around time than in the past.



i just put it out there as a possibility, but jeah its far too early for that. But what else could be meant with a "high end" dslr?

i can only see a 7d iii
the 80d series will probably be killed off and will be /is already replaced with the m50 (series)


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## dominic_siu (Mar 22, 2019)

RobDMB said:


> Now the question is, do you buy the R or RP to hold you over until then?


I’m using EOS R currently with RF28-70, until a decent pro R body comes I will change the body.


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## hne (Mar 22, 2019)

So, what features are missing in current cameras that:
a) make an actual measurable difference in image quality
b) make an actual measurable difference in what images are practical to capture
c) both fall in either of the above categories AND require the absence of a mirror box

I know of only one feature that would arguably fall in category c: no more cropped bokeh balls. That's solved by removing the mechanical obstruction that is the mirror box. That's already solved by both the R series bodies, right? What's next?

Ibis? You can combine that with a mirror.
Eye AF? That too.
Floppy flippy screen? Come on!
Lightweight body? Have you seen the 6D?
Exposure preview, focus peaking or zebra stripes in viewfinder? Just make the (now 300k pixel) light meter slightly higher resolution and add an oled display in the ovf stack where there are already LEDs.
The slapping mirror makes an astonishing small impact on the overall system once you really start to think about it.


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## yinzer (Mar 22, 2019)

If Canon could just get that chubby RF 70-200 out sooner rather than later, I'd be all in on this system. I was able to shoot with the RP for a week and I really enjoyed it. I'm hoping to pick up an R next.

That said, Canon is really missing an opportunity to push the R-series into the pro market if they don't have a mirrorless 1D out in early 2020. Between the Olympics and a US presidential election, it would be prime time to deliver a workhorse camera.


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## Cryve (Mar 22, 2019)

hne said:


> So, what features are missing in current cameras that:
> a) make an actual measurable difference in image quality
> b) make an actual measurable difference in what images are practical to capture
> c) both fall in either of the above categories AND require the absence of a mirror box
> ...



it has an impact as in the data the sensor gets can be used constantly now, instead of only when the mirror is up. the massive amounts of data that the sensor captures in modern MILC can then be used for things like ai tracking etc.


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## proutprout (Mar 22, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....



Stop complaining : you can use the R in 720p if you want slow motion, what are you talking about. And if you want a quality recording you can always buy a 1k extrnal recording so you can finally start enjoying this camera. And you will have 5 amazing lenses in one year that will cost 3x the price of your body. Canon strategy completely makes sense !


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## Don Haines (Mar 22, 2019)

amorse said:


> I'm not overly surprised if I'm honest. Canon has previously stated that there are a lot of expectations on this upcoming camera and they want to get it right, so I am completely comfortable with them taking their time to do so. I need time to save anyway.
> 
> I have a hard time seeing a 5D IV replacement coming next though, it was released less than 3 years ago at this point which would be a much quicker turn around time than in the past.


If you want the latest cutting edge, go get Olympus. I you want working reliably, go Canon. Many here want both, but they are mutually exclusive. Canon will be slow, but worth the wait.


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## sdz (Mar 22, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> ...the second part of the answer ist that the M50 with the EF-M 32 (and a small bunch of other lenses) is a lot of camera if you are interested in photographic or video RESULTS and not in nitpicking / pixel peeping (I do the latter but I am physicist and I _am always stunned how good tech is today, especially lenses_). {Emphasis added}



I love my M50, and I'll likely buy an EOS R when the price drops.
Camera tech has advanced to such a degree that the features which separate a 'pro' from a 'non-pro' camera are dual and single card slots. The R would be considered a 'pro' body more than capable of producing images that can be sold if it had two card slots because dual slots diminish the risks associated with card failure. Why? Because it has a field tested sensor that has been used by professionals who have 5D IV cameras. Sensor tech and AF are that good today that IQ is no longer an issue for FF cameras. Beyond that, specific needs determine the best camera for a given goal.


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## unfocused (Mar 22, 2019)

The "higher-end DSLR" is the part that interests me. Too early for either a 5DV or a 1DIII I believe. Could be an XXD, a 7DIII or a 5DsII. The 80D remains an excellent camera and I don't see enough new features available to push most owners to update/upgrade their bodies. I think the 5Ds is more likely to be dropped in favor of a mirrorless version, which probably fits the typical 5Ds use case better. I'm letting my personal preferences influence my interpretation and hoping for a 7DIII.

Just my opinion, but Canon might release a new DSLR to send a signal to the market backing up their statements that they intend to continue to develop and market both DSLRs and EOS R series for the foreseeable future.


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## amorse (Mar 22, 2019)

Cryve said:


> i just put it out there as a possibility, but jeah its far too early for that. But what else could be meant with a "high end" dslr?
> 
> i can only see a 7d iii
> the 80d series will probably be killed off and will be /is already replaced with the m50 (series)


No-one knows for sure, but I would suspect that a 1D Xiii will come soon - it needs to be ready for the 2020 olympics, so end of 2019, early 2020 would make sense. They could be referring to that?

Alternatively, we've heard rumours that the APS-C line will get a shakeup, and the obvious delays on refreshing the 80D and 7Dii could mean that those two lines meet somewhere in the middle. I wonder if the 7D is too professional for Canon's liking considering their significant investments into the full frame arena, and want to move the 7D series down and merge with the 80D as the highest end APS-C available. I could see a new line come out at the top of APS-C maybe? Who knows!


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## mpb001 (Mar 22, 2019)

Canon knows what they are doing for sure. There are two well speced R bodies out there now. A pro R body will arrive before we know it with IBIS and more than enough megapixels Im sure. They will have the entire mirrorless market covered and will own it.


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## Del Paso (Mar 22, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....


Please, do us a favour, go wild and buy a Sony quick!


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## HikeBike (Mar 22, 2019)

It makes sense to have the "holy trinity" of RF lenses ready to go prior to the release of a pro-level R body.


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## bhf3737 (Mar 22, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Stop complaining : you can use the R in 720p if you want slow motion, what are you talking about. And if you want a quality recording you can always buy a 1k extrnal recording so you can finally start enjoying this camera. And you will have 5 amazing lenses in one year that will cost 3x the price of your body. Canon strategy completely makes sense !


R is a very capable camera. No 120p, yes 1.7 crop, so what? if it is the end of world for you, there are so many choices out there and you can always buy/rent whichever brand you want. If you are short of funds, as can be read in between lines from your message, it is not camera manufacturers' fault. Stop complaining here. It is childish and not funny any more.


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## max_sr (Mar 22, 2019)

amorse said:


> Alternatively, we've heard rumours that the APS-C line will get a shakeup, and the obvious delays on refreshing the 80D and 7Dii *could mean that those two lines meet somewhere in the middle*.



No, thanks. Keep the 7D where it is.


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## ethanz (Mar 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.
> 
> The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.


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## Cryve (Mar 22, 2019)

max_sr said:


> No, thanks. Keep the 7D where it is.


i dont think they meet somewhere in the middle because there is no real middle. the 7d series is a straigh up upgrade in every domain to the 80d series.
meeting in the middle would be a downgrade from the 7d ii even, as even the 7dii is better than the 80d except in sensor performance, at least for photos.


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## HikeBike (Mar 22, 2019)

Cryve said:


> i dont think they meet somewhere in the middle because there is no real middle. the 7d series is a straigh up upgrade in every domain to the 80d series.
> meeting in the middle would be a downgrade from the 7d ii even, as even the 7dii is better than the 80d except in sensor performance, at least for photos.


I'm thinking the 80D line is done. T8i or 7D Mark III will probably be the next APS-C camera.


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## Cryve (Mar 22, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> I'm thinking the 80D line is done. T8i or 7D Mark III will probably be the next APS-C camera.


I agree, the future of the 80d series lies in the m50 line.


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## Don Haines (Mar 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.
> 
> The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.


You obviously don't understand....

Let me explain this for you....

They just barely launched the system....
Only four lenses so far, but about ten more coming this year....
The reviews are great....
It is selling VERY well.....
It works with all the legacy EF glass, and most of the second party glass....
They are now #1 in the low cost FF mirrorless segment....

Obviously, this means that Canon is *******!


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## epiieq1 (Mar 22, 2019)

jam05 said:


> Absolutely NOT. There are too many options available. Doesn't make sense for Canon to bypass wedding season for 2020 and release only pro level lenses without a pro body, placing there bets on a camera days before the Tokyo Olympics. My bet would be that Canon as usual is holding it's cards until this summer.



Why not? They're already bypassing wedding season 2019.


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## tmc784 (Mar 22, 2019)

DSLR is the best tool to take astrophotography.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 22, 2019)

RobDMB said:


> Now the question is, do you buy the R or RP to hold you over until then?


I am seriously thinking about adding the RP as a non-action camera body to my gear, I like its tiny form factor and lightness. Plus, I like its AF focus bracketing feature, should be nice for macro shooting - Canon should implement it in the R, too, maybe by firmware update (I guess it is a software only feature). The only thing I miss in the specs compared with the R is the closed shutter for sensor dust protection during lens change. Reminds me of my old New Mamiya 6 btw


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## CJudge (Mar 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.
> 
> The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.




I'm one of the recent additions to those sales numbers. I had been holding off on a purchase until I knew what other options would be released. All this talk of the R not being a proper "pro-level" body (whatever that means at this point) had been something that had delayed my decision to pull the trigger on the R.

For context, I'm a full time food and product photographer (who occasionally needs to do environmental portrait work for clients). I also enjoy travel photography for fun. I've been shooting mostly on a 6D, which was an absolute bargain when it came out compared to the 5Diii, and continued to do the job. So for me, the EOS R is a step up in pretty much every single conceivable way, and yet again at a great price point in comparison to the 5Div.

The R has been an absolute joy to use. I don't shoot fast action where I need crazy frame rates with continuous autofocus, and I've never used a second card slot (although testing the R's instant smartphone backup, it definitely would give me ample peace of mind in any situation that would call for one). It's a brilliant camera, with only a few minor compromises when compared to the competition out there (I'd have loved 120p at full HD). Over the weeks, I've customised it to be perfect for my needs, and now that the muscle memory is building up, it's fantastic in the hands.

I cannot get my head around all the people saying the new lenses are wasted on the R body, which supposedly can't make best use of them. Were these same people saying that the 6D and 5D series were unsuitable for Canon's top L lenses? It's a 5Div sensor in the R for crying out loud! It has some of Canon's best 1080p video quality, it has a phenomenal EVF that completely changed my mind about EVFs. In what way, exactly are lenses and number of card slots related?

To all these naysayers: Yes, I understand your frustrations. We all hoped for something truly revolutionary. But rent an EOS R for a week, and you might be surprised. I very unenthusiastically made my purchase, but it's quickly become my firm favourite.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 22, 2019)

tmc784 said:


> DSLR is the best tool to take astrophotography.


Right, less sensor heating issues... I hope, too, that there will a few good DSLR offerings for special fields of photography will survive the mirrorless take-over of the market for while.


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## koenkooi (Mar 22, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> That is a question I always answer with
> "If I am in NEED for FF I will go to the next shop and decide which camera I will buy" - at the moment the EOS R would win because RP is too crippled in some ways and there is more hope that features will be added to the EOS R (while this is non typically Canon to add substantial features per firmware update).
> 
> And the second part of the answer ist that the M50 with the EF-M 32 (and a small bunch of other lenses) is a lot of camera if you are interested in photographic or video RESULTS and not in nitpicking / pixel peeping (I do the latter but I am physicist and I am always stunned how good tech is today, especially lenses).



I don't do video, so I don't care about no 24p mode, but the RP is a lot of fun to shoot with. It seems to be more responsive than the m50, which is strange since it's the same Digic 8, same LCD and same EVF and 2 more megapixels. As you can see below, one is more easy to bring on a trip than the other


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 22, 2019)

CJudge said:


> To all these naysayers: Yes, I understand your frustrations. We all hoped for something truly revolutionary. But rent an EOS R for a week, and you might be surprised. I very unenthusiastically made my purchase, but it's quickly become my firm favourite.


The R really seems to be able to win over some photographer's hearts when it gets down to real life use, Steve Huff e. g. loves it, too. I think Canon (like Nikon) can design photographic tools that turn the process of shooting in an easy and smoothely flowing process. That's much more important than being king of freaking spec numbers, since all digital cameras are very good now.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 22, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> If you want the latest cutting edge, go get Olympus.


Now that's interesting to read in such a forum, normally I'd expect "Sony" in such a comment. But I agree, Olympus always made very nice cameras. Their technology isn't corrupted, like their management was


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 22, 2019)

yinzer said:


> Between the Olympics and a US presidential election, it would be prime time to deliver a workhorse camera.


For the US elections nowadays a photojournalist definitely needs a spit-proof gear  so Canon will have to implement their best weather sealing in a ML pro body. Should be feasible.


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## HikeBike (Mar 22, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Why not? Compared to when I started shooting digital, the files are like 3-4x bigger... and the card storage is literally 1000x bigger.
> 
> And swapping cards takes, what, five seconds? I can see it'd be a problem if you're trying to document something longer on video that doesn't have intermissions, but for stills photography, what is the killer requirement nowadays for dual slot?


Card B can be a mirror of Card A. Essential for those who can't afford to lose images due to card failure. Wedding photographers, etc.


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## snappy604 (Mar 22, 2019)

honestly I wish they'd simplify their lineup.. fewer models, mo


amorse said:


> No-one knows for sure, but I would suspect that a 1D Xiii will come soon - it needs to be ready for the 2020 olympics, so end of 2019, early 2020 would make sense. They could be referring to that?
> 
> Alternatively, we've heard rumours that the APS-C line will get a shakeup, and the obvious delays on refreshing the 80D and 7Dii could mean that those two lines meet somewhere in the middle. I wonder if the 7D is too professional for Canon's liking considering their significant investments into the full frame arena, and want to move the 7D series down and merge with the 80D as the highest end APS-C available. I could see a new line come out at the top of APS-C maybe? Who knows!




I wish they'd consolidate their lines more as well. There must be costs involved with the 'entry vs amateur vs pro vs crop vs full frame vs high megapixel vs etc' I wish they'd take the cost savings from fewer lines and sell more cost effective kick ass full featured (vs weird segmentation decisions) cameras. I know this has been successful for them, but it annoys me  (yes I know they don't care, they're a company). just putting my 2c in.


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## unfocused (Mar 22, 2019)

snappy604 said:


> honestly I wish they'd simplify their lineup.. fewer models, mo
> 
> I wish they'd consolidate their lines more as well. There must be costs involved with the 'entry vs amateur vs pro vs crop vs full frame vs high megapixel vs etc' I wish they'd take the cost savings from fewer lines and sell more cost effective kick ass full featured (vs weird segmentation decisions) cameras. I know this has been successful for them, but it annoys me  (yes I know they don't care, they're a company). just putting my 2c in.



I've never understood this sentiment. I suspect that manufacturing efficiencies are such that the marginal cost of each different model is minimal. I have no doubt Canon has done sufficient market research to know how many different models they need to produce to generate the most profit. If there were net cost savings to be had by consolidating lines, they would consolidate lines.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 22, 2019)

Cryve said:


> it has an impact as in the data the sensor gets can be used constantly now, instead of only when the mirror is up. the massive amounts of data that the sensor captures in modern MILC can then be used for things like ai tracking etc.


Sure. So lock the mirror up and use that data.

Sometimes having an optical VF makes an impact, for example shooting in low light and/or for extended periods of time. Sometimes having large AF sensors, with dedicated geometries not saddled with arrays filtering out most light, makes a difference

SLR can be used with every feature of MILC, including EVF, except “not having a mirror” (if that’s a feature). The opposite is not also true.


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## HikeBike (Mar 22, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Is that common? I've never seen it.


Not common, but it happens enough to be of concern and not worth the risk. I personally haven't experienced it.


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## unfocused (Mar 22, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> I'm thinking the 80D line is done. T8i or 7D Mark III will probably be the next APS-C camera.



As I recall, the actual rumor on this was vague (and it was a rumor). It's very hard to "downmarket" a model. Remember the outrage that occurred when Canon took the 50D down to the 60D (and they did that only after they had already introduced the 7D). I think the most logical move would be to merge the 77D and the 80D and keep the 7D positioned as a mini-1Dx.


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## Memirsbrunnr (Mar 22, 2019)

Cryve said:


> i just put it out there as a possibility, but jeah its far too early for that. But what else could be meant with a "high end" dslr?
> 
> i can only see a 7d iii
> the 80d series will probably be killed off and will be /is already replaced with the m50 (series)


that would be the m5 mark ii not m50..


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## snappy604 (Mar 22, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I've never understood this sentiment. I suspect that manufacturing efficiencies are such that the marginal cost of each different model is minimal. I have no doubt Canon has done sufficient market research to know how many different models they need to produce to generate the most profit. If there were net cost savings to be had by consolidating lines, they would consolidate lines.




You're right they probably have, but at a high level there must costs for developing different processors (digics, autofocus etc), different layouts (joysticks, touch bars, dials), different software (magic lantern proves they change this a fair bit, but think along different code to write, different software features some have, some don't), different cases (each must accomodate the different internal components, some are plastic, some are magnesium), different accessories (flash and how each behaves slightly differently, remote controls, intervalumeters, different outputs, etc). Different sensors too!Not to mention the different marketting etc. 

You'd think it'd be less cost if they rolled features into fewer bodies and it'd give people more stuff, for similar price.. but meh.. capitalism


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## bhf3737 (Mar 22, 2019)

jam05 said:


> ... Many photogs simply aren't gonna place their bets on a camera with one card slot. ...


Why not? I have seen here several people complaining that pros need two card slots and always mentioning that reliability is an issue (i.e. probability of losing pictures taken due to card failure). From reliability perspective, "a system is never better than its weakest link". If the alleged pro photog thinks the weakest link in his/her photo shooting business is "single card slot" then she/he will definitely go and get a memory card with the best quality possible rather than mourning for one card slot in the camera that he/she has.


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## mb66energy (Mar 22, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> I don't do video, so I don't care about no 24p mode, but the RP is a lot of fun to shoot with. It seems to be more responsive than the m50, which is strange since it's the same Digic 8, same LCD and same EVF and 2 more megapixels. As you can see below, one is more easy to bring on a trip than the other
> 
> View attachment 183598



Cool photo, behind the camera with the "mini 50mm equiv red ring lens without red ring"!
And you have done it what a lot of people say is insane: You put very expensive lens on a "cheap" camera. IMO fine - reminds me on Leica's "The lenses are the eyes of your camera" which is a good starting point for choosing lenses.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 22, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> shorter film-flange distance opens up a new world of lens design. You don't need retrofocus any more. The RF 50/1.2 or RF 28-70/2.0 simply aren't possible with SLR-style 44mm film-flange.
> 
> Also, while Canon's not going there yet, mirrorless can be more compact for given quality. I could get my EOS M+22/2 in my jeans pocket. Granted, a small-sensor, but you couldn't put small-sensor SLRs in your pocket. A 35/2 without IS or macro would be a pancake lens for the R. For travel photography size matters: the SLR shot looks like a cell phone picture, because it _is _a cell phone picture, because you left the SLR in the hotel...
> 
> ...



Sure, you can design things differently. I was meaning from a functionality standpoint.


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## HikeBike (Mar 22, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> Why not? I have seen here several people complaining that pros need two card slots and always mentioning that reliability is an issue (i.e. probability of losing pictures taken due to card failure). From reliability perspective, "a system is never better than its weakest link". If the alleged pro photog thinks the weakest link in his/her photo shooting business is "single card slot" then she/he will definitely go and get a memory card with the best quality possible rather than mourning for one card slot in the camera that he/she has.


Even the very best storage mediums can fail. Having two standard cards is much safer than having one very expensive card.


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## HikeBike (Mar 22, 2019)

mrav said:


> Ok, no bodies but what about firmware updates for the R line? I really hope Canon will improve the existing features and/or add some more to make it an even better camera. That might be enough to convince me to upgrade to the R line...been almost a year since I wanted to upgrade but holding out because I want a proper upgrade to the 5DIV (dslr or mirrorless...don't care which).


The R got one firmware update in February, which fixed a handful of bugs and added the ability to use silent shutter in continuous shooting mode. It was said the R is scheduled to get a "major" firmware update before the end of March which would add some features (such as eye detect AF in servo mode), but that deadline is swiftly approaching. Not sure what else they might add. Overall, I wouldn't count on Canon adding many features beyond this first "major" firmware update...but...I'd be more than happy to be wrong.


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## bhf3737 (Mar 22, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> Even the very best storage mediums can fail. Having two standard cards is much safer than having one very expensive card.


That is true. But, we have only one heart and no redundancy there, so it may fail, and cause death. But do you complain that why we have only one heart? 
Similarly, in engineering design we work with probability of failure as a measure of reliability. A design decision for the weakest link in the design is to find a compromise between the cost of adding redundancy and the probabilistic gain of improving reliability. Are you sure that a signle card slot is the weakest link in the design of the R? and even if it is, the decision may be that the gain is negligible vs. the cost. After 30 years of using Canon's cameras and lenses, I have learnt to at least rely on Canon's decision on reliability of the products designed and offered.


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## unfocused (Mar 22, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> Even the very best storage mediums can fail. Having two standard cards is much safer than having one very expensive card.



True...but, I strongly suspect that the great two-card slot debate gets a lot more attention on this forum than it does in real life. It would be interesting to see how many photographers actually set their cameras to shoot and save to both cards. I suspect it is like AFMA. A lot of photographers know they should probably do it, but very few working pros actually do.


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## koenkooi (Mar 22, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> Cool photo, behind the camera with the "mini 50mm equiv red ring lens without red ring"!
> And you have done it what a lot of people say is insane: You put very expensive lens on a "cheap" camera. IMO fine - reminds me on Leica's "The lenses are the eyes of your camera" which is a good starting point for choosing lenses.



I must admit that the 50mm isn't mine, there's a promotion going on here where you can rent the R or RP plus lenses for free for a week. Four days into the rental period I decided the order the RP. From now till sunday I'll have 2 RPs to play with.
I am going to save up for a copy of my own, but that will take a while


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## HikeBike (Mar 22, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> That is true. But, we have only one heart and no redundancy there, so it may fail, and cause death. But do you complain that why we have only one heart?
> Similarly, in engineering design we work with probability of failure as a measure of reliability. A design decision for the weakest link in the design is to find a compromise between the cost of adding redundancy and the probabilistic gain of improving reliability. Are you sure that a signle card slot is the weakest link in the design of the R? and even if it is, the decision may be that the gain is negligible vs. the cost. After 30 years of using Canon's cameras and lenses, I have learnt to at least rely on Canon's decision on reliability of the products designed and offered.


I fully understand your point. I'm not the most qualified person to debate this, as I'm not a pro shooter and, personally, do not need dual card slots. I also cannot say with any certainty that the single card slot is the weakest link within the R...it could be the shutter for all I know. However, I am quite cognizant of the failure potential of storage devices. I have not had a SD card fail on me, but I'm approaching my answers from the perspective of a wedding photographer, who would (or, should) be very concerned regarding the possibility of card failure. So while I have no control over having one heart, as you gave as an example, I do have control over the number of cameras, lenses, batteries, and card slots I utilize (I'd have more than one of each). Personally, if I were in this profession, I would not be able to justify my primary camera having a single card slot. The associated cost is minimal (if we're talking R vs A7 III, there's actually a cost savings), and the reputation of my business would not be worth risking in this scenario. All that said, I love my R, single card slot and all.


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## dtaylor (Mar 22, 2019)

unfocused said:


> A lot of photographers know they should probably do it, but very few working pros actually do.



I would think that it's the working pros who use both cards, and the advanced amateurs who don't.

I do use both card slots (I have the feature now so why not?) but I've also switched to single card writes when pressed for space.


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## Dantana (Mar 22, 2019)

CJudge said:


> I'm one of the recent additions to those sales numbers. I had been holding off on a purchase until I knew what other options would be released. All this talk of the R not being a proper "pro-level" body (whatever that means at this point) had been something that had delayed my decision to pull the trigger on the R.
> 
> For context, I'm a full time food and product photographer (who occasionally needs to do environmental portrait work for clients). I also enjoy travel photography for fun. I've been shooting mostly on a 6D, which was an absolute bargain when it came out compared to the 5Diii, and continued to do the job. So for me, the EOS R is a step up in pretty much every single conceivable way, and yet again at a great price point in comparison to the 5Div.
> 
> ...



This is all nice to hear. Nothing about the R is really keeping me from picking one up except timing. I can't really spend the money right now and I'm wary of picking up a new body right before a trip. But the R is definitely a possibility for me later in the year and hearing your take on it is great.


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## padam (Mar 22, 2019)

CJudge said:


> The R has been an absolute joy to use. I don't shoot fast action where I need crazy frame rates with continuous autofocus, and I've never used a second card slot (although testing the R's instant smartphone backup, it definitely would give me ample peace of mind in any situation that would call for one). It's a brilliant camera, with only a few minor compromises when compared to the competition out there (I'd have loved 120p at full HD). Over the weeks, I've customised it to be perfect for my needs, and now that the muscle memory is building up, it's fantastic in the hands.
> 
> I cannot get my head around all the people saying the new lenses are wasted on the R body, which supposedly can't make best use of them. Were these same people saying that the 6D and 5D series were unsuitable for Canon's top L lenses? It's a 5Div sensor in the R for crying out loud! It has some of Canon's best 1080p video quality, it has a phenomenal EVF that completely changed my mind about EVFs. In what way, exactly are lenses and number of card slots related?


I think the camera itself is very powerful, feels good in the hands, and the RF lenses are definitely not wasted on it, but I think the controls are somewhat quirky (I despise the mode button and the photo/video switch and the touchbar, I only try to make button functions useful, as the swipe is unusable) and don't work as intuitively as their DSLRs (even though it didn't get the same 'treatment' as the RP, it still 'designed' to be lower-end than a 5D IV, unfortunately) and it will probably be fixed in a higher-end model.

I also don't know why some people rate the EVF so highly, as I really am not finding that. I mean, it is pretty good, I just don't feel it is that amazing(especially with the long blackout time), it is just not as crap as other EVFs in Canon cameras(generally I think it is hyped up too much with all mirrorless cameras), I image the Leica SL or Panasonic S1 beating it easily. Yes, it is pretty big, so it is very good in that regard, but it has that barrel distortion and color shift depending on how I am looking at it, and I haven't seen anybody complaining about it. The LCD screen is really great, though.


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## Go Wild (Mar 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.
> 
> The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.



I believe you´re tired, a lot of people saying the same thing, for so many time!! I am also tired! After 1 and half year after i have been "forced" to buy a Sony camera because Canon didn´t have anything near in the market, then the roadmap says i have to wait another 1 year to get something from Canon. I´m sorry, it´s just ridiculous. And yes i am angry, after 15 years buying Canon and LOVING their products, yes i am not happy. I am sorry about that! I believe that for those who only make photography this seems a lot strange because yes, for photography the EOS R is indeed a great camera! No question about this. But for guys who needs hybrid cameras, Canon is simply not an option...Unless you use the R with the Atomos. So please do understand that the imaging market changed a lot and unfortunately Canon didn´t see it coming until it was a little bit late.

In 2016, I was primarily a wildlife photographer. In my hole "photographer life" I was only doing photography. After 2016 i have started to do also vídeo...why? Because I could. The 7d mkII and the 5d mkIII were my first "video cameras"!!  After that i have improved video skills and nowadays my anual incoming is 70% Vídeo works and 30% photography works. Why i just don´t invest in a video camera? Because i don´t want to go to the field with 3 cameras, because they are expensive and because i have in the market fantastic solutions in hybrid cameras!! And that´s why i am so sad....I LOVE Canon, I LOVE my 1dx mkII, i LOVE my 500mm F4, I love a lot of Canon products...but now i don´t have in Canon what i need in a hybrid camera!

Yes, they are recovering, the EOS R and RP for their segments are great cameras, but...what about who need a little bit more? Canon should work extremely hard to...at least equalize the competition, thats what i had expected...but ok. I will stick with the 1dx mkII and more than 10,000€ in lenses until October.

I heard someone answering me that 120fps in 720p is enough....Really???!!! Maybe for youtube or home videos!  In these days, clients want 4k videos. Yes, I know is a little bit silly, but the client has the word!! Do you expect i put a 120fps 720p video in a 4k work? Of course not...1080p yes..i can. No less than that.

Well, i am sorry personally because i am always showing my insatisfaction....but please understand, i am a Canon Fan that is desperate not to change....but i can´t wait forever, market don´t wait! And for those who are thinking....Come on, you can make great jogs even with the eos 5d mkIII. Yes, I can, but that´s not what clients want. Simple...

Just want a A7r3 equivalent...just that!


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## snappy604 (Mar 22, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> That is true. But, we have only one heart and no redundancy there, so it may fail, and cause death. But do you complain that why we have only one heart?
> Similarly, in engineering design we work with probability of failure as a measure of reliability. A design decision for the weakest link in the design is to find a compromise between the cost of adding redundancy and the probabilistic gain of improving reliability. Are you sure that a signle card slot is the weakest link in the design of the R? and even if it is, the decision may be that the gain is negligible vs. the cost. After 30 years of using Canon's cameras and lenses, I have learnt to at least rely on Canon's decision on reliability of the products designed and offered.



agree mostly, but keep in mind Canon does not control the cards people purchase or how they are handled. So the camera and reader may be reliable, the cards themselves may not be. I say this even though I don't fall in the 'must have 2 slots' camp, never had it fail.. but also never had to NEED it not to fail.


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## rjbray01 (Mar 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.
> 
> The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.



Personally I'm very pleased about the announcement.

I was hum-ing and hah-ing aboubt buying an EOS R but then I saw the rave reviews of the new Panasonic S1 - and in particular its glorious 5.6MP 120 fps "Real view finder".

I don't want to leave Canon .. I love Canon.

I would prefer that Canon take their time and come out with a spectacular camera ... IBIS, good eye-focus, 4k no crop and awesome top-tier viewfinder ... and a range of lenses - in particular the 24-70 and 70-200.

Moving to R is going to be a very, very costly operation for most of us and I'm only happy to do it if I feel I'm getting something above and beyond my wonderful 5D iv.

This announcement gets my hopes up that they are going to come up with something really good !


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## Adelino (Mar 22, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> That is true. But, we have only one heart and no redundancy there, so it may fail, and cause death. But do you complain that why we have only one heart?



Now I'm worried about all my non redundant organs


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## unfocused (Mar 22, 2019)

Adelino said:


> Now I'm worried about all my non redundant organs


If only we were Time Lords.


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## Ozarker (Mar 22, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....


Canon ain't behind. Untwist your skivvies. Goodbye Canon? Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.


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## unfocused (Mar 22, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> I believe you´re tired, a lot of people saying the same thing, for so many time!! I am also tired! After 1 and half year after i have been "forced" to buy a Sony camera because Canon didn´t have anything near in the market, then the roadmap says i have to wait another 1 year to get something from Canon. I´m sorry, it´s just ridiculous. And yes i am angry, after 15 years buying Canon and LOVING their products, yes i am not happy. I am sorry about that! I believe that for those who only make photography this seems a lot strange because yes, for photography the EOS R is indeed a great camera! No question about this. But for guys who needs hybrid cameras, Canon is simply not an option...Unless you use the R with the Atomos. So please do understand that the imaging market changed a lot and unfortunately Canon didn´t see it coming until it was a little bit late.
> 
> In 2016, I was primarily a wildlife photographer. In my hole "photographer life" I was only doing photography. After 2016 i have started to do also vídeo...why? Because I could. The 7d mkII and the 5d mkIII were my first "video cameras"!!  After that i have improved video skills and nowadays my anual incoming is 70% Vídeo works and 30% photography works. Why i just don´t invest in a video camera? Because i don´t want to go to the field with 3 cameras, because they are expensive and because i have in the market fantastic solutions in hybrid cameras!! And that´s why i am so sad....I LOVE Canon, I LOVE my 1dx mkII, i LOVE my 500mm F4, I love a lot of Canon products...but now i don´t have in Canon what i need in a hybrid camera!
> 
> ...



First, your original rant did not mention video, so it's a bit unfair to come back and reveal that your only real concern is video.



> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....



I think many of us are willing to concede that for video, Canon's offerings are less than ideal. Although I can't confirm that firsthand, as I rarely shoot video and when I have, I have found the 1DxII and the 5DIV remarkable for the little afterthought clips that I use.

I do think your first post contains a truth in it.



> If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!



They probably don't have a pro body that meets their standards. We all know Canon is conservative and they will "sell no wine before its time." 1Dx users would be very angry and vocal if Canon were to release a pro mirrorless body that does not meet or exceed the 1Dx on all accounts. So, I don't fault them for taking their time. Unfortunately, if you need it today, you will probably need to go with another brand. But, if I were you, I'd keep all my Canon lenses because I expect they will eventually have what you need.


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## Randywayne (Mar 22, 2019)

unfocused said:


> True...but, I strongly suspect that the great two-card slot debate gets a lot more attention on this forum than it does in real life. It would be interesting to see how many photographers actually set their cameras to shoot and save to both cards. I suspect it is like AFMA. A lot of photographers know they should probably do it, but very few working pros actually do.



<Raising and waving my arm>

Yes, I shoot to both card slots -and NOT RAW to one and jpeg to the other. My main body is a 5D IV and use it for anywhere from 1 to 7 or 8 real estate shoots each day. And DID return home once last year to find the SD card corrupted (it also happened several years ago on another camera) but thankfully that darned CF card was in there. Of course my a7III also has two (which is a great camera in certain situations, but just love shooting with the Canon more) and my 7D II which I owned before did as well.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 22, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Lenses ARE functionality. Size IS functionality. Price IS functionality.


Lenses are functionality. But you can design lenses differently to come up with similar or interchangeable functionality.

So far I haven’t seen any evidence that removing the mirror box affects price. Maybe in cameras without EVF? Then again I don’t really pay attention to the market that closely, I just buy what I want.

Size? Sure you can make something slightly smaller by removing the mirror. Significantly smaller? Not really.

That said, i take your points and I’ll revise my initial sentiments:

An SLR camera can execute every core photographic or video function that a mirrorless camera body can. A mirrorless camera body cannot execute every function an SLR can. There can be systematic differences which extend beyond core functions, including form and design options.


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## Don Haines (Mar 22, 2019)

Randywayne said:


> <Raising and waving my arm>
> 
> Yes, I shoot to both card slots -and NOT RAW to one and jpeg to the other. My main body is a 5D IV and use it for anywhere from 1 to 7 or 8 real estate shoots each day. And DID return home once last year to find the SD card corrupted (it also happened several years ago on another camera) but thankfully that darned CF card was in there. Of course my a7III also has two (which is a great camera in certain situations, but just love shooting with the Canon more) and my 7D II which I owned before did as well.


If I am taking pictures at work and a card fails, it’s a big thing, unless it is something that can be restaged. If I am at home taking pictures of Fluffy and the card fails, nobody cares. If you are a wedding photographer with only one slot and your card fails, you get sued.

Your decision on having one or two slots is based on risk, but as far as the R cameras go it should be remembered that so far we have seen the lowest end of the scale. Complaining about the lack of a second card on the R is like complaining that the 6D2 does not have one. I am sure that higher members of the line will have dual slots


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## Go Wild (Mar 22, 2019)

unfocused said:


> First, your original rant did not mention video, so it's a bit unfair to come back and reveal that your only real concern is video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry about that, we have the tendency to give personal opinions about our needs, i forgot to mention that vídeo plays a big role to me. I´m sorry. 

Understand everything what you´ve said. I am one of those who (of course) expecting something better than my already great 1dx mkII. I understand it takes time to develop cameras, my point is Canon needs to speed up a little bit, at least to match other brands. Canon EOS R was a big great first step! I was happy when the R came, i said to myself, "finally, Canon is back in the game!" I LOVE the adapters especially the ND one and if Canon lauches a great Pro body that will be my first choice in adapters. And here is my point that the lack of lenses cannot be an excuse no to launch a pro Body! We have hundreds of lenses we can use, even the EF-S ones!! 

But then....Damn...EOS RP came to the road. I was expecting a more agressive move from Canon. RP is also a great camera for enthusiastics. No doubt on that. As i previous mentioned in other post..."Where are the sharks Canon? We need the sharks!!" And that´s only what´s lacking here in mirrorless models. Canon need time? Ok! But damn...I bought the Sony A7r3 in December 2017. In that time this was the camera that gave me the best of both worlds, photography and vídeo. I had at that time the 1dx mkII and i love the camera, but produces massive files with the MJPEG codec....I was tempted to buy a second one...for second body. The 5dmk IV would be my choice if they didn´t put 120fps at 720p. That was the primary mistake of Canon in that camera. The 5dS was great for stills, terrible for video...so no alternative option in Canon for vídeo. I got the Sony. Altough i love Canon, i have to admit, that the sony is a F***cking piece of equipment!!! However I loose a lot of things when filming with canon lenses (Ibis for example). 

Well, so after almost 1 year and 5 months Canon couldn´t keep up the advance in hybrid. And now they say we need to wait one more year? Well...so I guess they are preparing something reallly good to jump one step in evolution. Problem is...jobs don´t wait!  

I already describe my point so no need to keep discussing this "Canon issues" with a problem, or perspective that is mine, and solely mine. I understand if lots of you don´t have my problems, but if I discuss this is because we are in a forum (this is the point of internet forums right?  ) were we can talk about Canon! And the talk cannot be only praising! We must describe what we feel, and what we need! I love to discuss photography, or video, always keeping in mind that conversations have 2 ways, our thoughts and other persons thoughts! Respect is the keyword so we can debate in a positive way. Not for you unfocused, this is for another answer.  

Well, i may be unfair, I may want something that is not possible now....but, this are my expectations...and sadly, they are not fulfilled now...or in a close future i believe...


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## Talys (Mar 22, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> So far I haven’t seen any evidence that removing the mirror box affects price. Maybe in cameras without EVF? Then again I don’t really pay attention to the market that closely, I just buy what I want.
> ...
> 
> An SLR camera can execute every core photographic or video function that a mirrorless camera body can. A mirrorless camera body cannot execute every function an SLR can. There can be systematic differences which extend beyond core functions, including form and design options.


Rangefinders for the win! 

I prefer my DSLRs with mirrors. For most of what I do, they just work better. But I mean, the mirrorless cameras are a win for the camera manufacturers, because I've gone and bought one, and I'm sure I'll buy more, while also buying DSLRs.

On the price front, since camera manufacturers have spent decades perfecting mirrorbox manufacturing, I think it's going to be a while before anyone sees any savings from going EVF - if indeed they are cheaper to produce in any meaningful way.

At the moment, I think I'm paying much more for R&D/engineering and markup than I am for cost of components and non-material manufacturing costs.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Mar 22, 2019)

Cards don’t just fail. They also get lost, damaged and stolen once they’ve been removed from the camera. When I travel I shoot to two cards which are always stored separately. If I don’t have two card slots I have to bring a backup gizmo which are also prone to failure. I’d much rather just have a small backup card wallet with my redundant SD cards in it. Even if I never lost another card, I’m so much more relaxed with a set of redundant cards. I worry constantly when all that stands between me and losing a months work is a single card. Lack of a second slot is a complete fail for me in any body I’d use for travel. It’s probably about $3 in parts so if Canon wants to attract 5D users they need to just add a second slot.
The second slot also allows me to write files to additional cards if needed. Either to share or to send home for extra redundancy.


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## Hector1970 (Mar 23, 2019)

I'm surprised. The High MP camera is not the one I want next. I'm waiting for a 5D IV replacement which seems now to be a long way off.
I'm still not sure why Canon is pushing pro lens without a pro camera.
The RP will sell well but it seems a camera to me that requires some cheaper lens.
Maybe by hinting at no more new cameras in 2019 they are trying to encourage sales of the existing mirrorless cameras.
I wonder is Canon haven't difficulty designing a more advanced mirrorless camera.


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## Silverstream (Mar 23, 2019)

jam05 said:


> Absolutely NOT. There are too many options available. Doesn't make sense for Canon to bypass wedding season for 2020 and release only pro level lenses without a pro body, placing there bets on a camera days before the Tokyo Olympics. My bet would be that Canon as usual is holding it's cards until this summer.


I 100% agree. Where is the money in our industry? Generally, its weddings. Certainly I make a lot of money in other areas too but it is one of the tops in general. When you make serious money in area, spending $3.5k on a body is not a huge issue if it brings a lot to the table. Personally, i absolutely adore the live view exposure and the face/eye AF. It is amazing for events. It is a serious plus. 
Second, it will be a step for some people shooting fast action sports as it will undoubtedly have a faster servo mode and shutter speed. So it helps satisfy that low end sports segment too. Pro sports shooters have their 1DX mkII's and will wait for a great replacement but it rocks as it is.
Third, and just as important as the other reasons, Sony is having a large amount of success. Canon is back with the best competitive low end full frame mirrorless for entry level photographers or amateurs. But obviously, the 5DmkIV/A7rIII segment is missing and there is a lot of volume there amount the pros. They desperately need to fill that spot to stop the hemorrhaging to Sony.


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## epiieq1 (Mar 23, 2019)

tmc784 said:


> DSLR is the best tool to take astrophotography.



And that's why, no matter what I end up with, I'm keeping my 5D3.  I need to get out and try it now that I've got it back, but it's been modified by Spencer's in Utah.


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## epiieq1 (Mar 23, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> I 100% agree. Where is the money in our industry? Generally, its weddings. Certainly I make a lot of money in other areas too but it is one of the tops in general. When you make serious money in area, spending $3.5k on a body is not a huge issue if it brings a lot to the table. Personally, i absolutely adore the live view exposure and the face/eye AF. It is amazing for events. It is a serious plus.
> Second, it will be a step for some people shooting fast action sports as it will undoubtedly have a faster servo mode and shutter speed. So it helps satisfy that low end sports segment too. Pro sports shooters have their 1DX mkII's and will wait for a great replacement but it rocks as it is.
> Third, and just as important as the other reasons, Sony is having a large amount of success. Canon is back with the best competitive low end full frame mirrorless for entry level photographers or amateurs. But obviously, the 5DmkIV/A7rIII segment is missing and there is a lot of volume there amount the pros. They desperately need to fill that spot to stop the hemorrhaging to Sony.



100% agree. 2019 Wedding season is upon us already. I'm renting a Canon and a Sony. I'm hoping to make it through this season without having to invest in a new body, but it's looking like I either need to invest, or rent as needed which gets expensive. If I need to invest, where do I go...?


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## Don Haines (Mar 23, 2019)

epiieq1 said:


> 100% agree. 2019 Wedding season is upon us already. I'm renting a Canon and a Sony. I'm hoping to make it through this season without having to invest in a new body, but it's looking like I either need to invest, or rent as needed which gets expensive. If I need to invest, where do I go...?


The money is in large numbers of sales of lower end bodies


----------



## epiieq1 (Mar 23, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> The money is in large numbers of sales of lower end bodies



No doubt. Canon's timeline makes sense for how they want to release things, and what they feel is best for their company. It's just not what I feel is best for my timeline.


----------



## David the street guy (Mar 23, 2019)

RobDMB said:


> Now the question is, do you buy the R or RP to hold you over until then?



That is the question… I've been ready to buy a new camera for a while, now, and I'm starting to wonder if I should buy the RP now and resell it when the "pro R" comes out in a year or two (or three). I know the R and the RP don't meet all my needs and (mostly) wants, but there's no way to know what the future holds!


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 23, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> But obviously, the 5DmkIV/A7rIII segment is missing and there is a lot of volume there amount the pros. They desperately need to fill that spot to stop the hemorrhaging to Sony.


What hemorrhaging? Canon sold more FF ILCs than Sony last year. Canon sold more MILCs than Sony last year. Canon sold more ILCs than Sony last year. Sony sold more FF MILCs than Canon, but Canon only had one for the last quarter of the year, and with the RP in the lineup now I’d bet good money that Canon completes the quadfecta and sells more FF MILCs than Sony this year. 

That popping sound was either the pin of reality bursting the balloon of your opinion, or the harbinger of a flame spurt in the fire swamp.


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## Silverstream (Mar 23, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> What hemorrhaging? Canon sold more FF ILCs than Sony last year. Canon sold more MILCs than Sony last year. Canon sold more ILCs than Sony last year. Sony sold more FF MILCs than Canon, but Canon only had one for the last quarter of the year, and with the RP in the lineup now I’d bet good money that Canon completes the quadfecta and sells more FF MILCs than Sony this year.
> 
> That popping sound was either the pin of reality bursting the balloon of your opinion, or the harbinger of a flame spurt in the fire swamp.


I never said that Canon wasn't doing well. The term hemorrhaging means bleeding. There is no disputing Sony has become a big player. I am buying a used 1DX mkII shortly from someone going over to Sony. One of my shooting partners has swapped to Sony. They have serious momentum and some damn good cameras and represent stiff competition.


----------



## Silverstream (Mar 23, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> The money is in large numbers of sales of lower end bodies


Which they have addressed already with the RP and the R


----------



## Vtcook (Mar 23, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.
> 
> The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.



You make a very good point about sales. Canon is obviously a business and needs to be profitable. However, they are not meeting my needs as a higher end user. I currently use the 5DIV and really do like it. Canon also makes fabulous glass. I have about 20K into Canon gear. My concern is that Canon is losing the high end market and I personally believe their reputation as the industry leader was lost several years ago. While the high end market is not where the profit is made, it is where the reputation is made and Canon is losing, and losing badly. Sony and Nikon are light years ahead. The only thing keeping me with Canon is my 600mm f4. Sony has no answer and migrating to Nikon is not cost effective. If not for this single lens I would have said goodbye to Canon a couple of years ago. Canon was known as the inovators in the 80’s. They have been riding that reputation for 30 plus years but they have slipped They have been in 3rd place for camera bodies for a very long time. I believe that you have to own the high end market in order to build public trust to buy into the entry level market. Sounds like it will be another year, possibly 2 before they will produce a camera that will improve upon the 5DIV let a lone compete with Sony or Nikon.


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## Pape (Mar 23, 2019)

RP is double lighter than 5div .
Why not wedding photographs can use rig of two camera? Upper camera could be fully automatic with 35mm lens .
Down camera would be main camera with manual adjust and zoom lense,both rigged fire with same launch button.


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## CandySpan (Mar 23, 2019)

jam05 said:


> Absolutely NOT. There are too many options available. Doesn't make sense for Canon to bypass wedding season for 2020 and release only pro level lenses without a pro body, placing there bets on a camera days before the Tokyo Olympics. My bet would be that Canon as usual is holding it's cards until this summer.


Why on earth do you not consider the EOS R a pro level camera? The only thing the 5D IV has over it is dual card slots, and if you can’t deal with that by shooting multiple cards, and backing up frequently through an event, then you should try.  Everything else is better on the EOS R, and it’s made the 5D IV obsolete, to date. Spend the money on some of the new glass, and go out and take spectacular pictures. It’s what many of us are doing!


----------



## CandySpan (Mar 23, 2019)

Vtcook said:


> You make a very good point about sales. Canon is obviously a business and needs to be profitable. However, they are not meeting my needs as a higher end user. I currently use the 5DIV and really do like it. Canon also makes fabulous glass. I have about 20K into Canon gear. My concern is that Canon is losing the high end market and I personally believe their reputation as the industry leader was lost several years ago. While the high end market is not where the profit is made, it is where the reputation is made and Canon is losing, and losing badly. Sony and Nikon are light years ahead. The only thing keeping me with Canon is my 600mm f4. Sony has no answer and migrating to Nikon is not cost effective. If not for this single lens I would have said goodbye to Canon a couple of years ago. Canon was known as the inovators in the 80’s. They have been riding that reputation for 30 plus years but they have slipped They have been in 3rd place for camera bodies for a very long time. I believe that you have to own the high end market in order to build public trust to buy into the entry level market. Sounds like it will be another year, possibly 2 before they will produce a camera that will improve upon the 5DIV let a lone compete with Sony or Nikon.


The EOS R is currently improving upon the 5D IV, which is only saved by one mere card slot. They couldn’t/wouldn’t cannibalize all it’s sales. I’m also a 5D IV user, yet I prefer the EOS R in every way.


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## degos (Mar 23, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> Which they have addressed already with the RP and the R



No, "lower end" means $400 kits in Best Buy, sold by the pallet load. Not $2300 bodies sold in ones and two.




CandySpan said:


> The only thing the 5D IV has over it is dual card slots, and if you can’t deal with that by shooting multiple cards, and backing up frequently through an event, then you should try.



Every time you remove a CF card you incrementally increase the risk of failure, by wearing the contacts and through thermal stress and condensation and weather exposure. Plus the risk of losing it. And of missing a shot because you're busy changing cards or hooking-up a card reader to a laptop to back it up.

Two slots, two large-capacity cards*, shoot all day mirroring, only take one of them out when you get back to base.

* ideally from different brands, or at least from different production batches


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## qudek77 (Mar 23, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm honestly tired of this narrative. The EOS R and EOS RP are both selling exceptionally well considering there are only 4 native RF mount lenses currently available. Yes, Canon is behind in the segment, but within 2-3 years, they're going to have a full EOS R/RF system. They'll also be #1 in the segment by then as well.
> 
> The EOS R system has existed for 198 days and there are already 10 lenses and two bodies announced. They are well ahead of where Sony was when they launched the A7 series 1983 days ago and they're already way out front of Nikon as far as lenses go and sales.



Huh? What 10 lenses? As far as I can see you can only buy 4, other ones are not in stores, so yeah, and E mount right now has the biggest lens selection out of all the available mounts.

This is a big fu** you from Canon to all the users, no PRO body, amazing really......


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## SecureGSM (Mar 23, 2019)

Don,
Regarding the “go Olympus” advice. I am not totally convinced that this is the best option at the moment 









Olympus could be forced to exit the digital camera market - Photo Rumors


Olympus could be forced to exit the digital camera market by activist shareholders – this report comes from Business Journal Japan. 43addict writes: “Many Olympus shareholders happen to be foreigners and they are starting to make headway, which could eventually lead to Olympus either discounting...




www.google.com.au


----------



## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> shorter film-flange distance opens up a new world of lens design. You don't need retrofocus any more. The RF 50/1.2 or RF 28-70/2.0 simply aren't possible with SLR-style 44mm film-flange.
> 
> Also, while Canon's not going there yet, mirrorless can be more compact for given quality. I could get my EOS M+22/2 in my jeans pocket. Granted, a small-sensor, but you couldn't put small-sensor SLRs in your pocket. A 35/2 without IS or macro would be a pancake lens for the R. For travel photography size matters: the SLR shot looks like a cell phone picture, because it _is _a cell phone picture, because you left the SLR in the hotel...
> 
> ...



I find it hard to believe that as mature a technology as it is, putting a mirror in a camera costs more than putting a high quality EVF in a camera, as expensive as they seem to be. With a hybrid optical/EVF system, the EVF part does not need to be near as high resolution to get the job done. It just needs to be able to project zebras and what-not.


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> Not common, but it happens enough to be of concern and not worth the risk. I personally haven't experienced it.


I just bought a refurbished CF card, so it happens enough for there to be a "refurbished" market. I've never had one fail, but there's always the chance. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me how common or uncommon it is. If I can afford a body with dual slots over one with a single slot, then dual slots it will be.... even at a $500+ cost difference.


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> That is true. But, we have only one heart and no redundancy there, so it may fail, and cause death. But do you complain that why we have only one heart?
> Similarly, in engineering design we work with probability of failure as a measure of reliability. A design decision for the weakest link in the design is to find a compromise between the cost of adding redundancy and the probabilistic gain of improving reliability. Are you sure that a signle card slot is the weakest link in the design of the R? and even if it is, the decision may be that the gain is negligible vs. the cost. After 30 years of using Canon's cameras and lenses, I have learnt to at least rely on Canon's decision on reliability of the products designed and offered.


As a guy sitting in cardiac unit following a procedure.... yeah, I'm complaining we have but one heart. Silly analogy.  A 2 card slotted camera can be purchased by those who need one.


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> I 100% agree. Where is the money in our industry? Generally, its weddings. Certainly I make a lot of money in other areas too but it is one of the tops in general. When you make serious money in area, spending $3.5k on a body is not a huge issue if it brings a lot to the table. Personally, i absolutely adore the live view exposure and the face/eye AF. It is amazing for events. It is a serious plus.
> Second, it will be a step for some people shooting fast action sports as it will undoubtedly have a faster servo mode and shutter speed. So it helps satisfy that low end sports segment too. Pro sports shooters have their 1DX mkII's and will wait for a great replacement but it rocks as it is.
> Third, and just as important as the other reasons, Sony is having a large amount of success. Canon is back with the best competitive low end full frame mirrorless for entry level photographers or amateurs. But obviously, the 5DmkIV/A7rIII segment is missing and there is a lot of volume there amount the pros. They desperately need to fill that spot to stop the hemorrhaging to Sony.


But Canon's industry is not weddings. Canon is also not hemorrhaging to Sony.


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## Del Paso (Mar 23, 2019)

I stopped (partly) the so-called hemorrhaging  by buying yesterday a totally obsolete DSLR (5 D IV) and I'm happy like hell  !
Someday, I'll get the EOS R high-MP, but mostly for my vintage Leica lenses and macro.


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> I never said that Canon wasn't doing well. The term hemorrhaging means bleeding. There is no disputing Sony has become a big player. I am buying a used 1DX mkII shortly from someone going over to Sony. One of my shooting partners has swapped to Sony. They have serious momentum and some damn good cameras and represent stiff competition.


A paper cut bleeds. Hemorrhaging is life threatening. Sony is not a big player. Sony's total market share has not changed much either way in the last 10 years (14% vs Canon's 50%). When Q1 reports are released for 2019... I'm going to declare that Canon is hammering and eviscerating Sony. I'll use those exact words regardless of the Q1 results simply because I like to chum it up with you dramatic Sony types. BTW: I also measure what's going on in the market by what my two friends are doing. Interesting that you choose a used 1DX Mark II over a new Sony.


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

CandySpan said:


> Why on earth do you not consider the EOS R a pro level camera? The only thing the 5D IV has over it is dual card slots, and if you can’t deal with that by shooting multiple cards, and backing up frequently through an event, then you should try.  Everything else is better on the EOS R, and it’s made the 5D IV obsolete, to date. Spend the money on some of the new glass, and go out and take spectacular pictures. It’s what many of us are doing!


Backing up frequently doesn't replace lost shots when a card fails. BTW: There are no professional cameras. There are professional photographers. I am no professional photographer when it comes to making a living at it. However, when I shoot an important event I try to be professional in action and demeanor. At those events I have set the standard for myself to shoot RAW to two cards at the same time. Why? Because some moments/shots cannot be redone. If one is willing to sign a contract to deliver a product, one better darn well be able to deliver. I suspect you don't own the 5D Mark IV nor the R. Your saying the R makes the Mark IV obsolete belies a gross unfamiliarity with one or both cameras. I volunteer shoot for a big fashion charity. Models, designers, MUAH, etc. all pay for their photos. Proceeds go to the charity work. All of it. If a card fails on me I could lose dozens of shots that cannot be duplicated. Huge time constraints. Those people will have sometimes traveled halfway around the world and paid good money to the charity. They'd have to be refunded. I'd then have a reputation as unreliable. So would the charity. Different story if I'm shooting portraits at the park. I've studied at getting an RP myself, but as an extreme emergency backup to my dual slot camera. Probably will go 5D IV or V instead... unless a dual slot R gets released. Even then, to be able to use RF lenses, not because the 5 series is obsolete.


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## Pape (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> As a guy sitting in cardiac unit following a procedure.... yeah, I'm complaining we have but one heart. Silly analogy.  A 2 card slotted camera can be purchased by those who need one.


Yep canon and god didnt made mistake ,second heart and card is for premium bodys like angels and top models


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

Pape said:


> Yep canon and god didnt made mistake ,second heart and card is for premium bodys like angels and pro models


Damn straight. Even budget models come with two b.....


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 23, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> I never said that Canon wasn't doing well. The term hemorrhaging means bleeding. There is no disputing Sony has become a big player. I am buying a used 1DX mkII shortly from someone going over to Sony. One of my shooting partners has swapped to Sony. They have serious momentum and some damn good cameras and represent stiff competition.


LOL. If you prick your finger on a rose thorn, that’s a hemorrhage? The term hemorrhaging means copious, severe bleeding. You might want to look that one up. One person you know has swapped to Sony? OMG, Canon is *******!! 

We both know you are implying that Canon is in some sort of trouble because of Sony’s ‘serious momentum’. Except that the reality of sales numbers show that simply not true, so now you’re waffling on your claim when faced with facts.

Sony was a ‘big player’ in APS-C MILCs, too. It’s easy to be a big player in a segment where there is no competition. Remember when Sony was selling tons of NEX cameras and Canon was in trouble because they didn’t have any mirrorless offerings? Then came the EOS M, and Sony pivoted to FF MILCs, and a few years later who is the market leader in APS-C MILCs? Canon. Now there’s the R and the RP, and Sony really has nowhere left to pivot. Remember Vaio?


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## JonSnow (Mar 23, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....



indeed..... let the ewig gestrigen use canon until they drop dead.

i can shoot great images with any a camera. 
and i buy the ones that offer me the most for my money.

canons cripple cameras are sure not that attractive anymore.


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## JonSnow (Mar 23, 2019)

when canon is doing so well why they lay of staff in america and some european countrys? 
staff from the camera division.....


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## BeenThere (Mar 23, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> I'm surprised. The High MP camera is not the one I want next. I'm waiting for a 5D IV replacement which seems now to be a long way off.
> I'm still not sure why Canon is pushing pro lens without a pro camera.
> The RP will sell well but it seems a camera to me that requires some cheaper lens.
> Maybe by hinting at no more new cameras in 2019 they are trying to encourage sales of the existing mirrorless cameras.
> I wonder is Canon haven't difficulty designing a more advanced mirrorless camera.


I am guessing that some major component of the “pro” R has been delayed in its development. Could be the new sensor, or improved EVF, or faster processor. Production problems often cause schedules to slip.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 23, 2019)

JonSnow said:


> when canon is doing so well why they lay of staff in america and some european countrys?
> staff from the camera division.....


Because the overall camera market is contracting!

If you used to sell 10,000,000 P&S’s a year and now sell 1,000,000 how many people are you going to keep employing in the P&S division? How many people are you going to keep in shipping and warehousing and logistics and marketing if you are manufactureing 9,000,000 less physical products per year? 

If you sell that 1,000,000 for several times the money of the old ones, GX7 II vs ELPH 180, you can make more profit on lower turnover with incredible operational savings due to lower physical volume. 

All the camera manufacturers have said the same thing, they are looking to increase profit per unit and raise the price per unit to counteract the smaller market.


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## LesC (Mar 23, 2019)

jam05 said:


> Absolutely NOT. There are too many options available. Doesn't make sense for Canon to bypass wedding season for 2020 and release only pro level lenses without a pro body, placing there bets on a camera days before the Tokyo Olympics. My bet would be that Canon as usual is holding it's cards until this summer.



All depends on personal preference. I just got a very good eal on the EOS R +RF 24-105L kit. With my 6D MKII makes a perferct pairing - for ME ...


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 23, 2019)

YKNJS.


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## Don Haines (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> As a guy sitting in cardiac unit following a procedure.... yeah, I'm complaining we have but one heart.


I hope you are out and on your feet soon, and we get to enjoy your posts for many years to come.

(((())))


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## MaxDiesel (Mar 23, 2019)

hne said:


> So, what features are missing in current cameras that:
> a) make an actual measurable difference in image quality
> b) make an actual measurable difference in what images are practical to capture
> c) both fall in either of the above categories AND require the absence of a mirror box
> ...



Just to name a few:


No More AMFA (Just that is worth the price of admission)
Liveview in EVF (Does wonders in low light situations, you see you subject)
Focus Peaking
High burst rate even in Quiet Shutter Settings
Quieter Shutter Operations

... and thats just a few.


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## David the street guy (Mar 23, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> The R is fantastically capable and I don't see a huge amount that can be improved for still photog (other than making it bigger, heavier, but sturdier and more ergonomic, and of course IBIS).



That's an interesting thought. It always seems that customers are looking for small and light cameras, but I wonder how many people, like you and me, favor a sturdy, tough camera suitable for big hands. A camera that will withstand the dangers of many days outside the studio.

And of course IBIS, and of course great low light sensitivity, and of course a fantastic AF, and of course at least 8.5 fps.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 23, 2019)

While, I expect the rumor is true, Canon has different design teams and a different production lines for lenses and camera bodies, so either there is more work to be done in getting a new body ready, or its a pragmatic decision to wait for the new lenses. I suspect that its a matter of the design being ready, a high mp or pro level body can work just fine with existing EF lenses and sales would not be hampered by those waiting for new lenses.

There is also probably the matter of the competition and what they are developing that comes into play. The competition is going to be stiff and may result in modifications to the planned design. If so, that results in a all out effort to get back on track.

In addition, their best designers are probably working on the 1DX II replacement and may need more time to get it right before those key designers are freed up to help solve the inevitible issues with the new mirrorless design.

There are lots of possible reasons, but I would not pick the new lenses as the reason because they are not a essential requirement to release the new body..


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

MaxDiesel said:


> Just to name a few:
> 
> 
> No More AMFA (Just that is worth the price of admission)
> ...


No more AFMA is not true. https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/i...afma-for-nikon-z6-z7-mirrorless-coming.36892/


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## Ozarker (Mar 23, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I hope you are out and on your feet soon, and we get to enjoy your posts for many years to come.
> 
> (((())))


Back home and feeling great! Atrial flutter (different from afib). Had the ablation procedure yesterday and went home this morning. Had a very elevated heart rate for about 8 months, 145 bpm, but not pounding. Almost unnoticeable. Decided to have it checked a week ago. They got me right in at Baylor's new heart hospital in Plano. My wife has a bad valve, so if we hadn't been regularly checking hers, we'd have never noticed mine. I got lucky.

I've not got a bill yet... but it is probably safe to say there won't be any new gear the rest of the next year or two.


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## Del Paso (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Back home and feeling great! Atrial flutter (different from afib). Had the ablation procedure yesterday and went home this morning. Had a very elevated heart rate for about 8 months, 145 bpm, but not pounding. Almost unnoticeable. Decided to have it checked a week ago. They got me right in at Baylor's new heart hospital in Plano. My wife has a bad valve, so if we hadn't been regularly checking hers, we'd have never noticed mine. I got lucky.
> 
> I've not got a bill yet... but it is probably safe to say there won't be any new gear the rest of the next year or two.


Bad news for Canon, excellent news for you!


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## Don Haines (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Back home and feeling great! Atrial flutter (different from afib). Had the ablation procedure yesterday and went home this morning. Had a very elevated heart rate for about 8 months, 145 bpm, but not pounding. Almost unnoticeable. Decided to have it checked a week ago. They got me right in at Baylor's new heart hospital in Plano. My wife has a bad valve, so if we hadn't been regularly checking hers, we'd have never noticed mine. I got lucky.
> 
> I've not got a bill yet... but it is probably safe to say there won't be any new gear the rest of the next year or two.


145! WOW! I can only hit that when pushing way too hard on the bike! I can’t imagine living with that! 

Glad you will be OK and hope your finances will recover as well


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## mb66energy (Mar 23, 2019)

I always read "N..ew Body in 2019" skipping some characters ... after 25 years of internet usage my reading capabilities are a little bit damaged ... or it's just wishing for a new release that is exactly for me 

Maybe Canon is thinking about and working on a strategy which fulfills two classes or FF users: Those who want the maximum resolution / IQ for landscape and studio and on the other hand those who need a very fast camera with very fast and reliable AF for sports / animals (the fast moving ones) / action.
Putting these features in ONE body seems impossible to me at least at a reasonable price below 20 000 EUR / $ .

A solution might be to introduce both flavours of a pro model at the same time knowing that selling pros some lemons will damage Canon with some long term effect - IMO this is the reason for the sequence
M50: look what above average non pro users say, launch the EOS R for the mid range between advanced amateurs and pros, than check what is possible in the cheapo FF sector. Set a foot into the FF mirrorless land and increase the attractivity of the system by putting a very interesting bunch of lenses into the market (compact 2.8 70 200 is ingenious). The lenses can shine with EOS R and EOS RP and make a lot of people lusting for a body, delaying decisions to leave the (Canon) boat, giving the company more time to make a successful first step into the FF mirrorless market.


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## ozturert (Mar 23, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....


Canon isn't 3 years behind. Maybe some years late to market, but that's it.
Based on what is this 3 years coming from? How about this: Sony is 100 years behind Canon in terms of body ergonomy, menu consistency and body reliability and touch screen implementation and screen quality (even A9 has a bad LCD with almost no anti-reflection coating).
So there you go.


----------



## epiieq1 (Mar 23, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> I always read "N..ew Body in 2019" skipping some characters ... after 25 years of internet usage my reading capabilities are a little bit damaged ... or it's just wishing for a new release that is exactly for me
> 
> Maybe Canon is thinking about and working on a strategy which fulfills two classes or FF users: Those who want the maximum resolution / IQ for landscape and studio and on the other hand those who need a very fast camera with very fast and reliable AF for sports / animals (the fast moving ones) / action.
> Putting these features in ONE body seems impossible to me at least at a reasonable price below 20 000 EUR / $ .
> ...



I can see that. I can also see the opposite - "well, nothing anytime soon in a body, and so, as a business decision, I'll go with something else that does fit what I need now, not a year or two into the future. I'll have to start switching from EF to RF to truly take advantage of the system and not have to use a mount converter, so I might as well go with another company that offers X, Y, and Z now." Sure, Canon makes great gear, but loyalty goes in both directions.


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## Del Paso (Mar 23, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Backing up frequently doesn't replace lost shots when a card fails. BTW: There are no professional cameras. There are professional photographers. I am no professional photographer when it comes to making a living at it. However, when I shoot an important event I try to be professional in action and demeanor. At those events I have set the standard for myself to shoot RAW to two cards at the same time. Why? Because some moments/shots cannot be redone. If one is willing to sign a contract to deliver a product, one better darn well be able to deliver. I suspect you don't own the 5D Mark IV nor the R. Your saying the R makes the Mark IV obsolete belies a gross unfamiliarity with one or both cameras. I volunteer shoot for a big fashion charity. Models, designers, MUAH, etc. all pay for their photos. Proceeds go to the charity work. All of it. If a card fails on me I could lose dozens of shots that cannot be duplicated. Huge time constraints. Those people will have sometimes traveled halfway around the world and paid good money to the charity. They'd have to be refunded. I'd then have a reputation as unreliable. So would the charity. Different story if I'm shooting portraits at the park. I've studied at getting an RP myself, but as an extreme emergency backup to my dual slot camera. Probably will go 5D IV or V instead... unless a dual slot R gets released. Even then, to be able to use RF lenses, not because the 5 series is obsolete.


I'm presently planning a trip to Japan, and I could never even imagine using a camera with a single card-slot.
Oops, I forgot I would never go to Japan without my Leica, but there, I don't have a choice.
Canon gives me the choice (5D 3 & new: 5 D 4 ).


----------



## Ladislav (Mar 23, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> If you want the latest cutting edge, go get Olympus. I you want working reliably, go Canon. Many here want both, but they are mutually exclusive. Canon will be slow, but worth the wait.



I don't know. I tried MILC from all manufacturers on The Photography Show in Birmigham (UK) and Olympus was the biggest disappointment. I tried EM1X and its viewfinder was by far the worst from all the options. You could say immediately that you are looking on display. I was very impressed with quality viewfinder in EOS R and Panasonic S1. Fuji, Nikon and Sony were good as well but Olympus was immediate no-go for me. And that is a shame because from all MILC available in the market, I was most impressed with EM1X.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 23, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Once there is a good body with IBIS I will get it. I want to start using my collection of FD, FL and R lenses but have been so spoiled by IS in my lenses it is a pain to not have it.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 23, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....



Fine to your future regret unless you are made of money. As stated before it took a couple of years for top end EF bodies to come out and people were laughing then too. But then Canon destroyed the competition as they didn't rush, weathered the storm (No idiot internet snowflakes complaining then) and dominated the market for the next over 30 years because they did it right not first.


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## Ladislav (Mar 23, 2019)

I played with EOS R at The Photography Show in UK. I was very impressed. It feels great in hand, viewfinder is superb and speed of selecting focus point is faster then joystick on 5D4! It would be very nice replacement of my 6D - 2 card slots and servo focus capability are not a big deal since 6D have similar limitations. The only drawback was that I'm left eye dominant and my nose was exactly at the place where focus points are supposed to be controlled. I would probably need to force myself to use the right eye to have the best experience.

I was shocked by the size of RF lenses. 28-70? Man, that one is massive! They also had mockups of all RF lenses announced for this year on display. When it comes to L lenses, only 70-200 seemed like shrinking in size and hopefully also weight. I didn't have chance to ask questions since all Canon representatives were super busy and there were tons of people at their show area but I would not be surprised if new 24-70 had internal zoom. It looked really big. On the other hand I expect the new 70-200 to lose internal zoom since it looks more like current 70-300 L.


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## CJudge (Mar 23, 2019)

padam said:


> I think the camera itself is very powerful, feels good in the hands, and the RF lenses are definitely not wasted on it, but I think the controls are somewhat quirky (I despise the mode button and the photo/video switch and the touchbar, I only try to make button functions useful, as the swipe is unusable) and don't work as intuitively as their DSLRs (even though it didn't get the same 'treatment' as the RP, it still 'designed' to be lower-end than a 5D IV, unfortunately) and it will probably be fixed in a higher-end model.
> 
> I also don't know why some people rate the EVF so highly, as I really am not finding that. I mean, it is pretty good, I just don't feel it is that amazing(especially with the long blackout time), it is just not as crap as other EVFs in Canon cameras(generally I think it is hyped up too much with all mirrorless cameras), I image the Leica SL or Panasonic S1 beating it easily. Yes, it is pretty big, so it is very good in that regard, but it has that barrel distortion and color shift depending on how I am looking at it, and I haven't seen anybody complaining about it. The LCD screen is really great, though.



I think quirky is definitely an accurate impression of the controls for the first day or so when I got my hands on one. For the first two weeks, almost every time I picked it up, I changed something in the button customisation. Now, the thing is a beast. I have every function I could need at my finger tips. I honestly wish I could export my full settings as a backup, because I must have changed pretty much every option at this point. If the camera were to hard-reset for any reason, It would actually take some time to get everything back to how I want it!

The mode button is a really weird one, that's defintely true. But I don't think it's actually any slower to operate than the previous design. The decision to remove the video switch was misguided, I would agree. Maybe it could be solved if they changed the dedicated video record button to serve that function, and recording stop-start could be mapped to the shutter button.

As for the touch bar, I would never in a million years set it to alter any of the image settings, such as ISO like a lot of people suggested when the camera was released. It's far too imprecise, and too easy to hit accidentally. I do, however, use it to great effect as a toggle for my histogram and my level, as well as swiping to zoom in/out for confirming focus. It works brilliantly for those functions. And in photo review, it serves as a dedicated rating button, which I love.

So all in all, after truly extensive customisation, I've surprised myself and have come to love the button layout. (although I wish someone at Canon would cop on and put the on/off switch within range of the right thumb, so I can turn the camera on with one hand while I lift it )


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2019)

degos said:


> No, "lower end" means $400 kits in Best Buy, sold by the pallet load. Not $2300 bodies sold in ones and two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So I guess it wasn’t smart for me to run my 256gb cf card through the was and dryer three times in the last two years? Oops.


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## Gillettecavalcad3 (Mar 23, 2019)

Glad I just bought two new Sony a7iiis and sold my EOSRs. Sad to say this, but Sony are way ahead of the game and the a7iii is the best camera on the market. The latest interviews with various Canon execs helped facilitate the full move to Sony.


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## Randywayne (Mar 24, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> Glad I just bought two new Sony a7iiis and sold my EOSRs. Sad to say this, but Sony are way ahead of the game and the a7iii is the best camera on the market. The latest interviews with various Canon execs helped facilitate the full move to Sony.



The great thing with Sony is you don't have to angrily "sell all your Canon gear!". LOL Just buy an MC-11 and the whole Universe of Canon glass becomes available. Nearly all the functions work great when using my Canon lenses -ironically some of the more restricted are Sigma's own! 

Having said that, while I love my a7III I still just plain enjoy shooting with my 5D IV more. I even prefer the overall image quality of the Canon when comparing equally sharp photos. When pixel peeping (which I do since I am buried in Photoshop hours a day) I compare the Canon image to a high quality piece of vinal and the Sony to a "perfect" 128k MP3. Yes, they are both digital, but the Canon has an overall more analog look to it. And no, not because it it "blurry" by any means.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 24, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> Glad I just bought two new Sony a7iiis and sold my EOSRs. Sad to say this, but Sony are way ahead of the game and the a7iii is the best camera on the market. The latest interviews with various Canon execs helped facilitate the full move to Sony.


its great that you signed up to CR forums to tell us this. H&G.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 24, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> Glad I just bought two new Sony a7iiis and sold my EOSRs. Sad to say this, but Sony are way ahead of the game and the a7iii is the best camera on the market.


A9 is certainly a better camera. A7Riii is arguable a better camera. D850 is a better camera. 1dx is a better camera.


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## padam (Mar 24, 2019)

CJudge said:


> As for the touch bar, I would never in a million years set it to alter any of the image settings, such as ISO like a lot of people suggested when the camera was released. It's far too imprecise, and too easy to hit accidentally. I do, however, use it to great effect as a toggle for my histogram and my level, as well as swiping to zoom in/out for confirming focus. It works brilliantly for those functions. And in photo review, it serves as a dedicated rating button, which I love.
> 
> So all in all, after truly extensive customisation, I've surprised myself and have come to love the button layout. (although I wish someone at Canon would cop on and put the on/off switch within range of the right thumb, so I can turn the camera on with one hand while I lift it )


Thank you for your input. How do you set your ISO? When I link it to certain dials it refuses to go back to auto-ISO, only if it is set up from the M-Fn, if there was an auto-ISO kill-switch during setting it (just like with Fv), it would be a whole lot easier, that can't be hard to implement...
With a mode dial I just turn it between modes at any time (and I set up the custom modes in a way that they are linked, so C3 photo or video is Always one click of a switch, and not random depending where you just left them last time) and I see everything don't even have to turn on the camera to do it, with the top display I can see where I am actually at, but no idea about the other one, so I am not sure how much adjustment it will take. I guess I just have to use the touchscreen mode even though I don't want to when it wouldn't be needed (or the screen is folded away, etc.).
So I still think it is a stupid design (or, knowing Canon by now, a purposeful limitation, they don't want to be "too serious" about a hybrid camera anyway...) and they've made the mode button removable, why didn't they made some of the modes removable, so the rest could fit into one single list (actually, all would fit into a single screen as-is already...) with the order that I prefer, just like the M-Fn menu.
Silent mode is also great to have, but you can't just switch it on or off, it is not even in the Q Menu (but anti-flicker is...), but at least it can be linked to the Custom modes to change it a bit more quickly (so again, it has been left out deliberately, reminds me of a certain other manufacturer's earlier mirrorless cameras so I assume it will not be fixed with firmware but it will be fixed in the next model...)


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## flip314 (Mar 24, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> Glad I just bought two new Sony a7iiis and sold my EOSRs. Sad to say this, but Sony are way ahead of the game and the a7iii is the best camera on the market. The latest interviews with various Canon execs helped facilitate the full move to Sony.



Why did you buy the Rs at all then? The A7III was out well before the R, if you thought the R was worse you should have skipped it.


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## ozturert (Mar 24, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> Glad I just bought two new Sony a7iiis and sold my EOSRs. Sad to say this, but Sony are way ahead of the game and the a7iii is the best camera on the market. The latest interviews with various Canon execs helped facilitate the full move to Sony.


You bought 2 Sonys and sold your EOS Rs (plural?). Then became a member of a Canon forum to brag about that? It seems you joined on 14th March.


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## CJudge (Mar 24, 2019)

padam said:


> Thank you for your input. How you set your ISO? When I link it to certain dials it refuses to go back to auto-ISO, only if it is set up from the M-Fn, if there was an auto-ISO kill-switch during setting it (just like with Fv), it would be a whole lot easier, that can't be hard to implement...
> With a mode dial I just turn it between modes at any time (and I set up the custom modes in a way that they are linked, so C3 photo or video is Always one click of a switch, and not random depending where you just left them last time) and I see everything don't even have to turn on the camera to do it, with the top display I can see where I am actually at, but no idea about the other one, so I am not sure how much adjustment it will take. I guess I just have to use the touchscreen mode even though I don't want to when it wouldn't be needed (or the screen is folded away, etc.).
> So I still think it is a stupid design (or, knowing Canon by now, a purposeful limitation, they don't want to be "too serious" about a hybrid camera anyway...) and they've made the mode button removable, why didn't they made some of the modes removable, so the rest could fit into one single list (actually, all would fit into a single screen as-is already...) with the order that I prefer, just like the M-Fn menu.
> Silent mode is also great to have, but you can't just switch it on or off, it is not even in the Q Menu (but anti-flicker is...), but at least it can be linked to the Custom modes to change it a bit more quickly (so again, it has been left out deliberately, reminds me of a certain other manufacturer's earlier mirrorless cameras so I assume it will not be fixed with firmware but it will be fixed in the next model...)



The auto-ISO issue is a frustration all right. I'm lucky in that I don't use it often, but it's definitely my preferred auto mode, over AV or TV, as I always want to know exactly where those values are. I have ISO mapped to "hold the Set button and turn the shutter dial". This works really well for me, and it's something I have been using for years. But as you say, turning it all the way down doesn't change it to Auto. If I want Auto, I either have to use the M-Fn button, or the touch screen.

You're absolutely right about not being able to change the Mode with the camera off, that's a really good point. And yes, the top LCD is useless for knowing which direction you actually need to turn, and for how many clicks, until you get to the mode you want. Your thought about being able to remove and re-arrange mode options for the list would be brilliant, I would love that! It's far too cluttered at the moment. My current system is indeed to use the touch screen. I just press the Mode Button with my thumb (actually way easier to do than awkwardly contorting my index finger) and then make my selection from the touch screen.

As for all the other options I frequently use (Silent Shutter and the related Anti-Flickr, as well as EVF Brightness, etc), I have them set to my custom menus. I then changed the directional pad to Eco, Q, Menu, and Picture Profiles (I like to switch to B&W sometimes if I just want to focus on composition without being distracted by colour). Being able to access the Menu with my right thumb while my eye is to the viewfinder is what makes the custom menus much more accessible for me. Especially as pushing Menu automatically takes me to the last setting I had selected, so it's really quick to turn something on or off. Having Eco mode on when I'm just on a walkabout is nice to save battery, but I need to be able to turn it off quickly if I actually want to spend time working on a shot. But if I find myself missing another function, I'd be happy enough to swap Eco out.

I have the other buttons on the back of the camera set to AF-Off (I use the reverse of Back-Button Focus), Servo/One Shot toggle, and AF Method (to swap between Single Point and Tracking). To set Drive Mode, I use the M-Fn button.

That's my set-up anyway! It might get tweaked a bit more, but so far I'm really liking it!


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## mb66energy (Mar 24, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> No more AFMA is not true. https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/i...afma-for-nikon-z6-z7-mirrorless-coming.36892/



Ooops. I thought everything is solved with on sensor AF but at least Nikon has't solved the problem. Maybe Canon has discovered the same and we have to wait for the next mirrorless bodies because they implement AFMA ...

But the intrinsic advantage of DPAF is that the whole sensor area can be used for AF and I really like the small AF points (selectable) of the M50 which give a very precise region where the AF has to operate, much smaller than the DSLR AF "points" which are substantially larger than the indicators in the viewfinder. Only disadvantage: doesn't work in low light -> use larger AF "points" where AF acquisition is based on more dual pixel cells which mitigates noise and might include more detail to focus on.


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 24, 2019)

> There is still an off chance that an announcement could come in late 2019, but we think Canon will hold off until the CP+ show next February.



I haven't read all the thread but would like to express my utter disappointment. Not only I'm not getting so much anticipated camera, but also there will be nothing to read and discuss on this forum until the end of the year. I'm switching to Sony rumours site... :/


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## slclick (Mar 24, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I haven't read all the thread but would like to express my utter disappointment. Not only I'm not getting so much anticipated camera, but also there will be nothing to read and discuss on this forum until the end of the year. I'm switching to Sony rumours site... :/


Because there's nothing at all going on in the Canon Universe besides a ML camera body.


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## Don Haines (Mar 24, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I haven't read all the thread but would like to express my utter disappointment. Not only I'm not getting so much anticipated camera, but also there will be nothing to read and discuss on this forum until the end of the year. I'm switching to Sony rumours site... :/


I think that the lack of camera will increase the amount of speculation and there will be more to read. After all, this is post #149 on an article saying that nothing is happening


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## slclick (Mar 24, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> I think that the lack of camera will increase the amount of speculation and there will be more to read. After all, this is post #149 on an article saying that nothing is happening


Basically the Seinfeld episode of the CR forum.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 24, 2019)

slclick said:


> Basically the Seinfeld episode of the CR forum.


 I missed that episode. What was it about?


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## slclick (Mar 24, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> I missed that episode. What was it about?


Nothing.


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## Hector1970 (Mar 24, 2019)

slclick said:


> Nothing.


or was it Frasier
Sony's mirrorless was eminent, while Canon's mirrorless eminence was merely imminent


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 24, 2019)

slclick said:


> Nothing.


It can’t have been about nothing. There must have been some plot, some story.


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## slclick (Mar 24, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> It can’t have been about nothing. There must have been some plot, some story.


Only the mess with Crazy Joe DaVola getting not an invite to Kramer's party.


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## brad-man (Mar 24, 2019)

Someone remind me. What was this thread about again?


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## David the street guy (Mar 24, 2019)

brad-man said:


> Someone remind me. What was this thread about again?


The nothingness coming up this year.

Thanks for nothing!


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## David the street guy (Mar 24, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> As long as we're dreaming…



Dreaming? You really think I'm dreaming? Are you saying that…
* • IBIS is never going to happen?* That one is not really important for me, so…
*• great low light sensitivity is impossible to obtain?* That, I really want. I often take pictures in low light situations, and that can be a struggle.
*• AF can't get even better?* I tried the eye tracking fonction and loved the idea of it. Now, I wish I could have a camera that quickly grabs my subject and follows it in burst mode.
*• 8.5 fps is impossible?* My 2004 camera does that and the 7D goes up to 10 fps… 

Anybody else thinks I'm waiting for something that will never come? In a robust camera?

See, if I come to the conclusion that I'm waiting for nothing, I'll simply by the RP and be done with it.

By the way, I'm sorry for my poor english, it is not a language I use frequently.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 24, 2019)

David the street guy said:


> Dreaming? You really think I'm dreaming? Are you saying that…
> * • IBIS is never going to happen?* That one is not really important for me, so…
> *• great low light sensitivity is impossible to obtain?* That, I really want. I often take pictures in low light situations, and that can be a struggle.
> *• AF can't get even better?* I tried the eye tracking fonction and loved the idea of it. Now, I wish I could have a camera that quickly grabs my subject and follows it in burst mode.
> ...


that's not the camera that got pushed back (in theory) .. this is the high resolution model.
so you're potentially dreaming that canon is going to release this one next.

your camera isn't going to come out for a long time. canon already basically illuded to that.

the person you're responding to was smoking something if he thought that the global shutter in question added an additional 7EV DR for stills lol.


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## proutprout (Mar 24, 2019)

I love this forum, i mean 9 pages of comments because nothing will happen with canon, amazing. How many comments when they will decide to do something ! In the meantime we can just buy Sony cameras ! And throw comments here.


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## Don Haines (Mar 24, 2019)

I’m sitting on a comfortable chair in a hunting blind during a snowstorm, and even though I have an obsolete mirrorslapper with an articulated screen (forum logic says it could break off any second), I can still take pictures of a punk chickadee.....

So yes, nothing is coming out soon in Canon Mirrorless Land, so go out and shoot with what you have!


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## deleteme (Mar 24, 2019)

unfocused said:


> True...but, I strongly suspect that the great two-card slot debate gets a lot more attention on this forum than it does in real life. It would be interesting to see how many photographers actually set their cameras to shoot and save to both cards. I suspect it is like AFMA. A lot of photographers know they should probably do it, but very few working pros actually do.


I have had a dual slot camera since the 1DmkII. I almost never used two cards even though I was a working pro. I did use two cards on occasion when I was very concerned about reliability but I never had a card failure. 
I DID have card failures three times over the years but never total card failures with total loss of files. Rather it was single file corruption and as I had multiple frames I did not suffer a loss.
A few years ago I started using two cards all the time. I STILL have not had even a partial failure (shooting 2k-5k frames a month) but I feel very nervous if I venture out without a second card in the slot.

Anecdotally, I have heard about photographers claiming card failure as an excuse for not delivering images that were so bad they were ashamed to show them.
I have zero idea as to the frequency of this but I am confident it exceeds once.


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## deleteme (Mar 24, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> How come this can be interpreted has...."normal" or without surprise? Canon is 3 years behind! They have answered to a change in the market in a terrible slower way! In the same way How come the lenses can serve as an excuse?? No way!! RF adapters and the existing lenses can give Canon the confidence to launch a Pro body! If they don´t launch it is because they don´t have it!
> I don´t believe i am saying this.....but i see the good bye Canon, closer and closer....



I would note that your passion on the issue is a balm to Canon as they know you will most likely to be the first to pull the trigger on the next body irrespective of price.
Most Canon users are unlikely to switch as they are either indifferent to the issues raised on these boards or are so deep into Canon glass and bodies they can't leave short of an expensive exit.
The only way I could leave without taking a bath on my gear would be to switch to Fuji, Oly, or Panasonic. All decent cameras but not likely to give me any advantages beyond portability. Arguably the differences in IQ to go to Nikon or Sony (SoKon?) are small enough that I would be paying a steep premium for something my clients can't see. Except, of course, for my fumbling and cursing my new gear.


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## Go Wild (Mar 25, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> I would note that your passion on the issue is a balm to Canon as they know you will most likely to be the first to pull the trigger on the next body irrespective of price.
> Most Canon users are unlikely to switch as they are either indifferent to the issues raised on these boards or are so deep into Canon glass and bodies they can't leave short of an expensive exit.
> The only way I could leave without taking a bath on my gear would be to switch to Fuji, Oly, or Panasonic. All decent cameras but not likely to give me any advantages beyond portability. Arguably the differences in IQ to go to Nikon or Sony (SoKon?) are small enough that I would be paying a steep premium for something my clients can't see. Except, of course, for my fumbling and cursing my new gear.



My passion?? Is more like my frustration...!!  I "started" to leave Canon when I bought a Sony A7r3. With the mc-11 adapter i can use my canon glass with "almost" no problem. So it´s not a jump in the dark, if that day comes (leaving Canon) it will be a slow process (and probably yes...will make me lose some money.) However, even buying the A7R3 (witch i do love), I always thought that this camera was somehow temporary and Canon would respond with better hybrid cameras. Sony launched the A7r3 in October 2017, and next month they will launch a new firmware update witch will give more focusing skills to the camera! Eye AF? Well, i am shooting Eye AF for one and half years now!! How about Canon shooters??  Probably they are getting the firmware update now! Yes, I shoot with IBIS for 1 and half year! Canon users? Nope....But let me just say this, i don´t value so much ibis, I value more IS sistem in lenses. I am shooting video with a fullframe sensor and getting a fullframe image in 4k! Canon? Yeahh....just don´t have it! Let me just say again, I often shoot in crop mode in Sony, and use a lot the 1dxmkII to film, and shooting in fullframe is not a game changer for me, but is great to have it! Ohh...what about Log? Yeaahh I have a 6000€ camera from canon that shoots great video...but with no C-log and the worst thing...with a 20 year old codec that produces huge files!  

What is so strange to me....is that this things are evidences! I am not making this up! Canon already assumed in an interview that they didn´t respond well to the change in the market. But even with this, i got called a "troll" in this forum and "slammed" just because I am criticizing Canon!!  Why? Because i am angry that Canon is saying for us not to expect new EOS R cameras in 2019!! And this seems to be....normal to everybody!  
I am not happy criticizing Canon, not happy at all!!! I would LOVE that canon launch a great hybrid camera! With no drawbacks, with no restraining things!! Just giving what people that shoots video with this cameras want! (Yes, for me the problem of Canon is the video, for stills cameras continue to be excelent). So, yes! If Canon launches a great camera I will sell my Sony one and get a Canon! Yes I am a CANON FAN! And yes, I am frustrated with Canon. I understand if most of you don´t understand me...But this are my thoughts ,fair or unfair, this are my needs as a photographer/videographer that lives 100% from image!! My best regards to everybody! Even to those who called me...a troll!!


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## Lacikuss (Mar 25, 2019)

Canon is developing the new Pro-R for teh Olympics, if they don't launch it in 2019 it is because they are still developing the technology or fine tuning it to make it a sure thing, nothing more. I only wish they would use Sony sensors though.


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## Yasko (Mar 25, 2019)

Cryve said:


> i just put it out there as a possibility, but jeah its far too early for that. But what else could be meant with a "high end" dslr?
> 
> i can only see a 7d iii
> the 80d series will probably be killed off and will be /is already replaced with the m50 (series)



Replaced by the M50?
I think this kit is not capable enough. The 80D always was a good standard in between „beginner“ and „pro“ regarding sports etc. The M50 is a great little camera but doesn‘t live up to these standards I think.
The M5 is more near to the 80D, although it feels a little bit like we won‘t see another M5-ish camera in the future  (more like a M5 with an R Mount).


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## dba101 (Mar 25, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> My passion?? Is more like my frustration...!!  I "started" to leave Canon when I bought a Sony A7r3. With the mc-11 adapter i can use my canon glass with "almost" no problem. So it´s not a jump in the dark, if that day comes (leaving Canon) it will be a slow process (and probably yes...will make me lose some money.) However, even buying the A7R3 (witch i do love), I always thought that this camera was somehow temporary and Canon would respond with better hybrid cameras. Sony launched the A7r3 in October 2017, and next month they will launch a new firmware update witch will give more focusing skills to the camera! Eye AF? Well, i am shooting Eye AF for one and half years now!! How about Canon shooters??  Probably they are getting the firmware update now! Yes, I shoot with IBIS for 1 and half year! Canon users? Nope....But let me just say this, i don´t value so much ibis, I value more IS sistem in lenses. I am shooting video with a fullframe sensor and getting a fullframe image in 4k! Canon? Yeahh....just don´t have it! Let me just say again, I often shoot in crop mode in Sony, and use a lot the 1dxmkII to film, and shooting in fullframe is not a game changer for me, but is great to have it! Ohh...what about Log? Yeaahh I have a 6000€ camera from canon that shoots great video...but with no C-log and the worst thing...with a 20 year old codec that produces huge files!
> 
> What is so strange to me....is that this things are evidences! I am not making this up! Canon already assumed in an interview that they didn´t respond well to the change in the market. But even with this, i got called a "troll" in this forum and "slammed" just because I am criticizing Canon!!  Why? Because i am angry that Canon is saying for us not to expect new EOS R cameras in 2019!! And this seems to be....normal to everybody!
> I am not happy criticizing Canon, not happy at all!!! I would LOVE that canon launch a great hybrid camera! With no drawbacks, with no restraining things!! Just giving what people that shoots video with this cameras want! (Yes, for me the problem of Canon is the video, for stills cameras continue to be excelent). So, yes! If Canon launches a great camera I will sell my Sony one and get a Canon! Yes I am a CANON FAN! And yes, I am frustrated with Canon. I understand if most of you don´t understand me...But this are my thoughts ,fair or unfair, this are my needs as a photographer/videographer that lives 100% from image!! My best regards to everybody! Even to those who called me...a troll!!


Why not start the week infiltrating a well informed forum with some apologetic monotony. Your photos must be equally stunning with an outlook like that.


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## Go Wild (Mar 25, 2019)

dba101 said:


> Why not start the week infiltrating a well informed forum with some apologetic monotony. Your photos must be equally stunning with an outlook like that.



This Forum should be called "Canon Praisers" not Canon Rumors...!  I don´t like this rumor and i gave my opinion! Can I do that? Or should i say: " Thank you, thank you Canon by not giving me a the camera I need so I can spend 3,500$! I am sorry for disturbing you and your beginning of week! I just explain my reasons why I was frustrated with Canon. Just that!!!! 
Ohh....about my photos...I make more than 60.000€ by year, so they must have some quality.


----------



## scyrene (Mar 25, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> This Forum should be called "Canon Praisers" not Canon Rumors...!  I don´t like this rumor and i gave my opinion! Can I do that? Or should i say: " Thank you, thank you Canon by not giving me a the camera I need so I can spend 3,500$! I am sorry for disturbing you and your beginning of week! I just explain my reasons why I was frustrated with Canon. Just that!!!!
> Ohh....about my photos...I make more than 60.000€ by year, so they must have some quality.



Sure_jan.gif


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## LSXPhotog (Mar 25, 2019)

I'm slightly...well, extremely disappointed in this news. I absolutely love the EOS R and I didn't expect it to replace my 5D Mark IV last year, but it did. I now shoot with it alongside my 1DX Mark II and I would love to go fully mirrorless at a wedding or some events. I was looking forward to getting a new, high megapixel sensor from Canon with dual cards later this year...but if they aren't going to release anything, do I just buy another EOS R? I'm not opposed to that idea, but I really didn't want to invest in a second camera body with a single card slot. The only thing I really miss is the dual cards for weddings and events.

That said, I can't wait for the day that I am using all RF cameras. This EOS R has become the greatest camera I've ever used. So if I could get an enhanced version of it in a 5D4/5DS type camera or even a 1DX type camera, I would jump all over it.


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## Don Haines (Mar 25, 2019)

LSXPhotog said:


> I'm slightly...well, extremely disappointed in this news. I absolutely love the EOS R and I didn't expect it to replace my 5D Mark IV last year, but it did. I now shoot with it alongside my 1DX Mark II and I would love to go fully mirrorless at a wedding or some events. I was looking forward to getting a new, high megapixel sensor from Canon with dual cards later this year...but if they aren't going to release anything, do I just buy another EOS R? I'm not opposed to that idea, but I really didn't want to invest in a second camera body with a single card slot. The only thing I really miss is the dual cards for weddings and events.
> 
> That said, I can't wait for the day that I am using all RF cameras. This EOS R has become the greatest camera I've ever used. So if I could get an enhanced version of it in a 5D4/5DS type camera or even a 1DX type camera, I would jump all over it.


Can you get the R to backup to a phone or pad while you are shooting? That would be a great way to get backup without a second card.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 25, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> My passion?? Is more like my frustration...!!  I "started" to leave Canon when I bought a Sony A7r3. With the mc-11 adapter i can use my canon glass with "almost" no problem. So it´s not a jump in the dark, if that day comes (leaving Canon) it will be a slow process (and probably yes...will make me lose some money.) However, even buying the A7R3 (witch i do love), I always thought that this camera was somehow temporary and Canon would respond with better hybrid cameras. Sony launched the A7r3 in October 2017, and next month they will launch a new firmware update witch will give more focusing skills to the camera! Eye AF? Well, i am shooting Eye AF for one and half years now!! How about Canon shooters??  Probably they are getting the firmware update now! Yes, I shoot with IBIS for 1 and half year! Canon users? Nope....But let me just say this, i don´t value so much ibis, I value more IS sistem in lenses. I am shooting video with a fullframe sensor and getting a fullframe image in 4k! Canon? Yeahh....just don´t have it! Let me just say again, I often shoot in crop mode in Sony, and use a lot the 1dxmkII to film, and shooting in fullframe is not a game changer for me, but is great to have it! Ohh...what about Log? Yeaahh I have a 6000€ camera from canon that shoots great video...but with no C-log and the worst thing...with a 20 year old codec that produces huge files!
> 
> What is so strange to me....is that this things are evidences! I am not making this up! Canon already assumed in an interview that they didn´t respond well to the change in the market. But even with this, i got called a "troll" in this forum and "slammed" just because I am criticizing Canon!!  Why? Because i am angry that Canon is saying for us not to expect new EOS R cameras in 2019!! And this seems to be....normal to everybody!
> I am not happy criticizing Canon, not happy at all!!! I would LOVE that canon launch a great hybrid camera! With no drawbacks, with no restraining things!! Just giving what people that shoots video with this cameras want! (Yes, for me the problem of Canon is the video, for stills cameras continue to be excelent). So, yes! If Canon launches a great camera I will sell my Sony one and get a Canon! Yes I am a CANON FAN! And yes, I am frustrated with Canon. I understand if most of you don´t understand me...But this are my thoughts ,fair or unfair, this are my needs as a photographer/videographer that lives 100% from image!! My best regards to everybody! Even to those who called me...a troll!!



Your FF Sony 4K is really half FF as the camera skips every other line for the FF 4K. So it is not the FF being used, just 1/2 of it being spread all over the sensor.
Canon has decided to make the 4K match closely to their video cameras so switching from video camera to the RP there is not a major difference in look.

Perhaps some day Canon will have a FF 4K like their top of the line Cinema camera does. But most all of us could care less. I have used video on my camera 2 times in years and I believe honest people will say the same unless they are video freaks. And if they are truly serious then they will get real cinema equipment and do real work with their production team. Otherwise it is just vacation shots boring people to death like the super 8 home movies of yore.


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## Pape (Mar 25, 2019)

This RP viewfinder is cool toy ,with 300mm tube and 5x dicital zoom i get 30x nightvision telescope just for watching things


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## Don Haines (Mar 25, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Your FF Sony 4K is really half FF as the camera skips every other line for the FF 4K. So it is not the FF being used, just 1/2 of it being spread all over the sensor.
> Canon has decided to make the 4K match closely to their video cameras so switching from video camera to the RP there is not a major difference in look.
> 
> Perhaps some day Canon will have a FF 4K like their top of the line Cinema camera does. But most all of us could care less. I have used video on my camera 2 times in years and I believe honest people will say the same unless they are video freaks. And if they are truly serious then they will get real cinema equipment and do real work with their production team. Otherwise it is just vacation shots boring people to death like the super 8 home movies of yore.


and cat videos.....


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## unfocused (Mar 25, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> and cat videos.....


Cat videos are not boring.


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## Go Wild (Mar 25, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Your FF Sony 4K is really half FF as the camera skips every other line for the FF 4K. So it is not the FF being used, just 1/2 of it being spread all over the sensor.
> Canon has decided to make the 4K match closely to their video cameras so switching from video camera to the RP there is not a major difference in look.
> 
> Perhaps some day Canon will have a FF 4K like their top of the line Cinema camera does. But most all of us could care less. I have used video on my camera 2 times in years and I believe honest people will say the same unless they are video freaks. And if they are truly serious then they will get real cinema equipment and do real work with their production team. Otherwise it is just vacation shots boring people to death like the super 8 home movies of yore.



Hey Architect, thanks for the answer. Well, i´m not much a tech guy but i do understand your explanation. I thought Sony uses a 5k sensor and downsample to 4k. I don´t know how much of the sensor they use, but the final image is a fullframe images, or pretty much near. They also have the crop mode, that allows you to film in crop 4k (and gives you a little more image quality). But no...EOS R don´t give you the same image quality comparing Sony crop mode and Canon (because canon crops in 1.7x we can´t really compare FF image). The only way you can get better image from eos R is to use an external recorder like Atomos ninja.
But, yes...I can see myself using a EOS R for both video and photo...errrgg....well wait... We have again 120fps at 720p. So that´s a no for video.

Like i said in previous post, i do understand that most of you don´t care about video, and just simply don´t understand people complaining about video specs. I totally understand and I do agree that in stills mode, Canon cameras are pretty much great. Sony sensors are a little bit better, but canon wins in other things. Of course, if you don´t make videos this is just sh*t talk send by some boring guys complaining! 

However...the market did change, and today I don´t need to use a specific video camera to make videos....I can grab a mirrorless or even a DSLR and make quality videos. That´s why we talk about hybrid cameras! Cameras that can make great video and great photos! The only complain i have about Canon is that they never had invested properly in this "new market" and other brands did it. It seems they always restraining things and never put in one camera important things. One example...Why the hell they didn´t put 1080p 120fps in Canon 5d mkIV? (they put 720p 120fps!! Why bother to make a camera that can record in 4k and then put that spec in 120fps? Well...I can tell you that this was the main reason i didn´t bought this camera. Sony A7r3 give me everything i needed at that time, and couldn´t find in Canon, unless in the 1dxmkII that i own in that time and still keep. Another thing...1dx mkII is a perfectly capable camera for video...but the camera don´t have zebras, focus peaking, C-log, and only output hdmi at 1080p so we can´t use an external recorder (that solves most of the lacking features), because it doesn´t allow you to record on 4k! It just seems that they on purpose put a break in everything! Sony doesn´t do that, you have all those things available. It´s better than Canon, it´s worst than Canon? Don´t know and I don´t care!! But certainly Sony is giving me what i need and that´s the most important!! So what am I doing here? Why I complain? God damn I don´t want to leave Canon!!!!!!! 


Edit: Ohhh....by the way...Cat videos are FUN!!!


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## flip314 (Mar 25, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Cat videos are not boring.



In the future, cat videos will be the only legal currency.


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## Don Haines (Mar 25, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> Hey Architect, thanks for the answer. Well, i´m not much a tech guy but i do understand your explanation. I thought Sony uses a 5k sensor and downsample to 4k. I don´t know how much of the sensor they use, but the final image is a fullframe images, or pretty much near. They also have the crop mode, that allows you to film in crop 4k (and gives you a little more image quality). But no...EOS R don´t give you the same image quality comparing Sony crop mode and Canon (because canon crops in 1.7x we can´t really compare FF image). The only way you can get better image from eos R is to use an external recorder like Atomos ninja.
> But, yes...I can see myself using a EOS R for both video and photo...errrgg....well wait... We have again 120fps at 720p. So that´s a no for video.
> 
> Like i said in previous post, i do understand that most of you don´t care about video, and just simply don´t understand people complaining about video specs. I totally understand and I do agree that in stills mode, Canon cameras are pretty much great. Sony sensors are a little bit better, but canon wins in other things. Of course, if you don´t make videos this is just sh*t talk send by some boring guys complaining!
> ...


Personally, I love my canon DSLRs and for stills I think that they are the best option out there, but for video I wonder why it is that my P/S camera outperforms it?

You can like something and still be critical of its flaws.


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## Gillettecavalcad3 (Mar 25, 2019)

I bought two EOSR's for wedding photography and I've had a blast with them. However, it wasn't until I had a shot of the Sony a7iii at one of the weddings that I realised that it trumps the EOSR in every department. I used to hate Sony trolls, but I don't think they are trolling anymore as the a7iii is a beast. 

Like someone mentioned earlier, I love my canon lenses and I'm using them on my Sony bodies. I've kept my 70 - 200mm and my 16-35mm (best wide lens by far). I'm still invested in Canon and I look forward to seeing what they come up with to compete with the a7iii.

I can't even begin to list where Sony trumps Canon in the mirrorless market. Dynamic Range, Low Light, AF, Continuous 10fps and ibis which is needed to shoot decent usable video.

Here is the biggie though on why I have changed. I was so disappointed with the low light performance of the eosr, as anything above 1600 iso is unusable and sometimes at Weddings you gotta go 3200 in low light venues.


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## Go Wild (Mar 25, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Personally, I love my canon DSLRs and for stills I think that they are the best option out there, but for video I wonder why it is that my P/S camera outperforms it?
> 
> You can like something and still be critical of its flaws.


That´s the BIG thing, thank you so much Don! That´s my point!

I love Canon, but don´t like this specific thing - Video specs. And that´s what I criticize. I Love my 1dx mkII for stills, just love it! I did tried one Sony A9 but it´s a no for me changing the 1dx mkII for the Sony A9. Despite the size and weight! 

My only point is this one....Canon should be much more faster responding to this new market and they must stop restraining things in video! Ok...we are not expecting the specs of a C200 but...at least releasing some "must have" specs in video. 

I´m done...a lot of posts about this "problem" that is mine...I am sorry for the longevity of the posts, just trying to talk with you guys about my "pains".... We shouldn´t always praise! Hearing complains makes the companies grow up and be more attention to customers!  

Thank you all for listening....and please...stop calling trolls to everybody that have complains about Canon products, or some specific "mistakes" of the brand! At least me...I just love a good photo/video chat!! And yes...probably I will wait for the big brother of the EOS R. (unless Sony make som magic before!!  )


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## SecureGSM (Mar 26, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> Here is the biggie though on why I have changed. I was so disappointed with the low light performance of the eosr, as anything above 1600 iso is unusable and sometimes at Weddings you gotta go 3200 in low light venues.



what a pile of bollocks ... up to iso 4600 you are just fine. I am pushing iso 6400 with my 5D IV's all the time, EOS R sensor is almost as good in low light. 5dIV is winning by 1/10 of a stop.






__





Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting






photonstophotos.net


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## Mikehit (Mar 26, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I was so disappointed with the low light performance of the eosr, as anything above 1600 iso is unusable



You may find the Sony better, but to call 1600 on the Canon 'unusable' is ridiculous hyperbole.


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## Gillettecavalcad3 (Mar 26, 2019)

"what a pile of bollocks ... up to iso 4600 you are just fine. I am pushing iso 6400 with my 5D IV's all the time, EOS R sensor is almost as good in low light. 5dIV is winning by 1/10 of a stop."

You tried printing these out to a large size for clients? Would be interesting to find out how they look blown up?

"You may find the Sony better, but to call 1600 on the Canon 'unusable' is ridiculous hyperbole."

I said anything above 1600, ....meaning 1600 is usable.

I honestly think the eosr performs far worse than the 6d in terms of low light performance. At least with the 6d the noise is 'nice noise' (more of a grain). Again, this is just my personal opinion and I still love Canon and their lenses. I'm still invested in the company and I want them to shift their arse in gear a bit more. Some usable video features would be nice and for that we really need ibis.

Nothing tops the 16-35mm wide lens and it works almost perfectly on the a7iii with the metabones v adapter, and same goes for my favourite lens, ...the 2.8 IS 70 - 200mm


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## Hector1970 (Mar 26, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> "what a pile of bollocks ... up to iso 4600 you are just fine. I am pushing iso 6400 with my 5D IV's all the time, EOS R sensor is almost as good in low light. 5dIV is winning by 1/10 of a stop."
> 
> You tried printing these out to a large size for clients? Would be interesting to find out how they look blown up?
> 
> ...


You are just expressing your opinion about what you like from your camera in terms of ISO performance. I think its a very valid comment. Someone else might disagree but it doesn't have to be vehemently disagree. You can hold a different perspective to other people and be quite happy with the ISO at 3200 or 6400.
I find with the 5DIV sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not with photos at 6400 ISO.
Sometimes I'm posting on Facebook and its completely acceptable. Other times it might be for a client and its just not good enough (but not terrible by any means).
The 5DSR I don't like at all at 1600 ISO or above. I think I have a bad camera - noise is mushy not grainy.
I still love Canon especially the lens. Thankfully I don't shoot video - it doesn't seem to be the best choice for video. For Stills I think Canon are still excellent.
Yes I'd like a mirrorless camera that improves upon the 5D IV with dual slots (because maybe I'm irrationally scared of memory cards not working at crucial moments - I've had a few cards fall apart and a few cards that wouldn't read). It looks like I'm going to have to wait a while.
I don't think I'd move to Sony but the A7R III is a tempting camera. A friend has one and its good. I believe Canon have the capability to match or better it but are in no rush as they have plenty of RP cameras to sell.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 26, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> "what a pile of bollocks ... up to iso 4600 you are just fine. I am pushing iso 6400 with my 5D IV's all the time, EOS R sensor is almost as good in low light. 5dIV is winning by 1/10 of a stop."
> 
> You tried printing these out to a large size for clients? Would be interesting to find out how they look blown up?
> 
> ...



I'm not going to put my head in the sand and say that Sony doesn't outperform the EOS R in many ways. However, you talk about adapting lenses, and I did not feel that Canon lenses performed all that well on a Sony A7iii.

It's a miracle that they work as well as they do, and it's certainly not awful, but I encountered way too many instances where the Canon lenses would be hunting around in low light. Once my 70-200 2.8ii would not even focus on something very high contrast outside in daylight. It just wasn't acceptable for me. I'm surprised you find the adapted Canon lenses to work well enough for weddings.

I tried both the Sigma and Metabones adapters, by the way.


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## QuisUtDeus (Mar 26, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I used to hate Sony trolls, but I don't think they are trolling anymore as the a7iii is a beast.



Used to hate them for the two weeks between when you joined and now?


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## Ozarker (Mar 26, 2019)

Where is the "eating popcorn" emoji?


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## David the street guy (Mar 26, 2019)

Cryve said:


> Seems to me like a *7d iii* or 5d V release this year, with the *7d iii* far more likely.
> All other "high-end" dsrl models are likely going to be transitioned into mirrorles. only those two (and the 1dx iii, in 2020) are heavily autofocus dependant and thus a dslr instead of mirrorles is the better choice for canon right now.



What do you mean by "heavily autofocus dependant"? Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Mar 26, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> what a pile of bollocks ... up to iso 4600 you are just fine. I am pushing iso 6400 with my 5D IV's all the time, EOS R sensor is almost as good in low light. 5dIV is winning by 1/10 of a stop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm jealous of Sony capabilities in several areas, but high ISO noise levels isn't one of them. 5D4 sensor at 6400 ISO does pretty well. I wonder if you have a settings issue. If you're using highlight protection or something else that might be pushing things around by a stop or so. You might try a reset and see what you get.


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## Cryve (Mar 26, 2019)

David the street guy said:


> What do you mean by "heavily autofocus dependant"? Thanks!


canons autofocus in their MILC isnt as advanced as it has to be for sports, action or wildlifephotography.
But they probably want to transition most if not all of their DSLR camera lines into MILC.
So they are going to do that except for those cameras that are expected to perform well in the autofocus department,
like 1dx ii, 5d series, 7d series.

Thus, if they bring out a DSLR in the summer i expect it to be of a series like the 7d or 5d series, that has good continuous autofocus as
one of their main qualitys.


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## Don Haines (Mar 26, 2019)

Cryve said:


> canons autofocus in their MILC isnt as advanced as it has to be for sports, action or wildlifephotography.
> But they probably want to transition most if not all of their DSLR camera lines into MILC.
> So they are going to do that except for those cameras that are expected to perform well in the autofocus department,
> like 1dx ii, 5d series, 7d series.
> ...


Due to the nature of the beast, AF on a Mirrorless camera takes a lot more processing power than on a DSLR. I expect that when we see the high end Canon Mirrorless cameras show up, that we will be seeing things like quad (octal?) digic8 processors. Once again, look at the high end Oly and Panasonic..... the defining hardware feature is the processing power! Canon will follow suit.


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## dba101 (Mar 26, 2019)

Ohh....about my photos...I make more than 60.000€ by year, so they must have some quality. 
[/QUOTE]
fantasy land. Off with the pixies.


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## deleteme (Mar 26, 2019)

Go Wild said:


> My passion?? Is more like my frustration...!!  I "started" to leave Canon when I bought a Sony A7r3. With the mc-11 adapter i can use my canon glass with "almost" no problem. So it´s not a jump in the dark, if that day comes (leaving Canon) it will be a slow process (and probably yes...will make me lose some money.) However, even buying the A7R3 (witch i do love), I always thought that this camera was somehow temporary and Canon would respond with better hybrid cameras. Sony launched the A7r3 in October 2017, and next month they will launch a new firmware update witch will give more focusing skills to the camera! Eye AF? Well, i am shooting Eye AF for one and half years now!! How about Canon shooters??  Probably they are getting the firmware update now! Yes, I shoot with IBIS for 1 and half year! Canon users? Nope....But let me just say this, i don´t value so much ibis, I value more IS sistem in lenses. I am shooting video with a fullframe sensor and getting a fullframe image in 4k! Canon? Yeahh....just don´t have it! Let me just say again, I often shoot in crop mode in Sony, and use a lot the 1dxmkII to film, and shooting in fullframe is not a game changer for me, but is great to have it! Ohh...what about Log? Yeaahh I have a 6000€ camera from canon that shoots great video...but with no C-log and the worst thing...with a 20 year old codec that produces huge files!
> 
> What is so strange to me....is that this things are evidences! I am not making this up! Canon already assumed in an interview that they didn´t respond well to the change in the market. But even with this, i got called a "troll" in this forum and "slammed" just because I am criticizing Canon!!  Why? Because i am angry that Canon is saying for us not to expect new EOS R cameras in 2019!! And this seems to be....normal to everybody!
> I am not happy criticizing Canon, not happy at all!!! I would LOVE that canon launch a great hybrid camera! With no drawbacks, with no restraining things!! Just giving what people that shoots video with this cameras want! (Yes, for me the problem of Canon is the video, for stills cameras continue to be excelent). So, yes! If Canon launches a great camera I will sell my Sony one and get a Canon! Yes I am a CANON FAN! And yes, I am frustrated with Canon. I understand if most of you don´t understand me...But this are my thoughts ,fair or unfair, this are my needs as a photographer/videographer that lives 100% from image!! My best regards to everybody! Even to those who called me...a troll!!


I don't think you are a troll. I think you have strong feelings. You might be a troll if you live under a bridge.


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## Pape (Mar 27, 2019)

I believe sony cameras remove more noise than canon,what is good for their nerd users who may not know how do it with photoediting?


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## SecureGSM (Mar 27, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> I'm jealous of Sony capabilities in several areas, but high ISO noise levels isn't one of them. 5D4 sensor at 6400 ISO does pretty well. I wonder if you have a settings issue. If you're using highlight protection or something else that might be pushing things around by a stop or so. You might try a reset and see what you get.


thanks tiggy, I have no issues with 5DIV files, not a single one  you replied to a wrong poster.
p.s. I tried shooting some sports with Sony A7RII yesterday. the evf screen flickering gives me a mighty headache. having histogram overlay in viewfinder is a nice feature though.


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## SecureGSM (Mar 27, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> "what a pile of bollocks ... up to iso 4600 you are just fine. I am pushing iso 6400 with my 5D IV's all the time, EOS R sensor is almost as good in low light. 5dIV is winning by 1/10 of a stop."
> 
> You tried printing these out to a large size for clients? Would be interesting to find out how they look blown up?
> 
> ...




I am seriously struggling to understand your logic or the lack thereof. sorry.. you now brought 6d in the mix, printing large... what is that has to do with 5div file quality at iso 6400?
I look at file at 1:1 resolution and they are nice and clean. run DXO Photolab Prime noise reduction over your files at iso 3200 and see if you like the result.


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## LSXPhotog (Mar 27, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Can you get the R to backup to a phone or pad while you are shooting? That would be a great way to get backup without a second card.


Yes, but it's honestly not a reliable alternative. As soon as you turn the camera off to change lenses or it goes into sleep mode you have to get everything set back up again - that alone makes it unrealistic. I have used it in the past, however. I was shooting product photos at a restaurant for their menu and never changed lenses. It worked out nice.


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## Mikehit (Mar 27, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> "what a pile of bollocks ... up to iso 4600 you are just fine. I am pushing iso 6400 with my 5D IV's all the time, EOS R sensor is almost as good in low light. 5dIV is winning by 1/10 of a stop."
> 
> You tried printing these out to a large size for clients? Would be interesting to find out how they look blown up?
> 
> ...



Point taken. But I used the work 'hyperbole' very carefully: this does not negate your opinion but I think it is overstated. My gut reaction comes from people confusing 'I don't like it' and 'unusable' because I would ask unusable for whom? (Pros learn to put their personal preferences aside if it delivers images that sell). There are those who say Canon gear is unusable because you can't push images 5 stops. z


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## Silverstream (Mar 28, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> A paper cut bleeds. Hemorrhaging is life threatening. Sony is not a big player. Sony's total market share has not changed much either way in the last 10 years (14% vs Canon's 50%). When Q1 reports are released for 2019... I'm going to declare that Canon is hammering and eviscerating Sony. I'll use those exact words regardless of the Q1 results simply because I like to chum it up with you dramatic Sony types. BTW: I also measure what's going on in the market by what my two friends are doing. Interesting that you choose a used 1DX Mark II over a new Sony.



FYI, I now have a Canon 1DX mkII, 5DmkIV, 6DmkII, Eos R, 5DmkIII and a 77D. So its really kind of funny that you think I am a Sony Type. 

I am just a realist and am aware of other brands and how they are doing. 5 yrs ago, Sony was a nothing in the full frame arena. Now they are a major player and have some damn good equipment. I may be a Canon guy but I know a good number who have left. I am optimistic about Canon though and feel their two initial bodies in the full frame mirrorless market are fairly strong entries particularly the RP at that price point.


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## Ozarker (Mar 28, 2019)

Silverstream said:


> FYI, I now have a Canon 1DX mkII, 5DmkIV, 6DmkII, Eos R, 5DmkIII and a 77D. So its really kind of funny that you think I am a Sony Type.
> 
> I am just a realist and am aware of other brands and how they are doing. 5 yrs ago, Sony was a nothing in the full frame arena. Now they are a major player and have some damn good equipment. I may be a Canon guy but I know a good number who have left. I am optimistic about Canon though and feel their two initial bodies in the full frame mirrorless market are fairly strong entries particularly the RP at that price point.


14% of the total market (zero market share growth in 10 years) isn't "major player" status to me. Sony's camera division is gonna be in deep trouble soon. Deeper than usual. Waiting for the next couple of CIPA reports. Then what will you Sony types do? Hopefully Sony will release a lens longer than 400mm one day.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 29, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Sony's camera division is gonna be in deep trouble soon. Deeper than usual.



FPODFS?

I’d be happy as a clam with 14% marketshare.


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## Ozarker (Mar 29, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> FPODFS?
> 
> I’d be happy as a clam with 14% marketshare.


 Me too!


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## MaxDiesel (Apr 1, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> No more AFMA is not true. https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/i...afma-for-nikon-z6-z7-mirrorless-coming.36892/



That’s only for certain adapted or vintage lenses who don’t work well with their autofocus system. So the 1 in a 1000 issue. Generally you will NEVER need to amfa lenses on a mirrorless.


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## Mikehit (Apr 1, 2019)

MaxDiesel said:


> Generally you will NEVER need to amfa lenses on a mirrorless.



Isn't that an internal contradiction?

Generally you don't need to AFMA on a DSLR either. So what was your point?


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## Don Haines (Apr 1, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> Isn't that an internal contradiction?
> 
> Generally you don't need to AFMA on a DSLR either. So what was your point?


I think what he is trying to say is that on a DSLR, that all models of lenses can need AFMA but for most individual lenses it is not needed. On a Mirrorless camera, most models of lenses do not need AFMA, but there are a few that require it.


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## dba101 (Apr 2, 2019)

I was busy chugging along with the 1DC since its release and the continued value that camera has given me, you cannot put a price on.
With all the current predictions/rumours, I decided to fill the second camera gap with an R.
Having read ALL the opinions in the last few months since release I was a maybe a bit sceptical, but had done the pro vs con thing for long enough.
Biggest revelation to me is that I now have some idea of the amount of bullshit written on the internet.
No wonder they are taking their time on the higher end versions. This system is very special.


For once I think I might of been on topic.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 2, 2019)

dba101 said:


> For once I think I might of been on topic.


Sorry, no. The topic is about bashing Canon. Please get with the program. 

I do quite like the R, but it’s not particularly small nor are good lenses for it. For me, it will be mainly a travel camera, I think.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 2, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sorry, no. The topic is about bashing Canon. Please get with the program.
> 
> I do quite like the R, but it’s not particularly small nor are good lenses for it. For me, it will be mainly a travel camera, I think.


I bought mine to replace my SL-2 for travel, but I would have bought the RP instead for travel if it had been out. My R is small enough to sit on my desk, but still large compared to a RP. Third party accessories and software is still lagging in support. I have been trying a IOS app to control the camera after corresponding with the author. He said he had no camera to test it with, so I gave him a write up. Unfortunately, all of the functions work only partially, or don't work properly, but there is some functionality. I'm not aware of any remote app that works for a R that gives focus stacking, downloads RAW to the iphone, works with CR3, or other similar functions.

The app $1.99 RemotEOS does work as a remote shutter release, can do focus bracketing with limitations, and does save CR3 files to my iPhone.


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## MaxDiesel (Apr 3, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> Isn't that an internal contradiction?
> 
> Generally you don't need to AFMA on a DSLR either. So what was your point?



My Canon 5D3 and 5D4 needed to have the 50 1.2, 85 1.2 and 70-200mm re-aligned with AMFA almost by weekly, the sigma lenses we’re even more of a chore. If your use to shooting 2.8 or faster AMFA is a normal part of your weekely camera check. The more I traveled with the lenses and body the more the they needed adjustments. Also AMFA isnt a saviour. Sometimes you’ll have a perfect alignment for when use it at a 10 feet distance but then move in for a closer or out to infinity focus and all the sudden its off again.

These situations do not happen (99.9% of the time) with mirrorless, just buy a new lens, slap it on and your in focus even at f1.2 Some lenses like adapted lenses, vintage lenses or native macro lenses will need AFMA to adjust them with the sensor.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 3, 2019)

MaxDiesel said:


> That’s only for certain adapted or vintage lenses who don’t work well with their autofocus system. So the 1 in a 1000 issue. Generally you will NEVER need to amfa lenses on a mirrorless.



not true at all.

focus shift is a problem which is why Sony goes through such pains with some of their lenses that only AF stopped down and not wide open.


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## cayenne (Apr 3, 2019)

CJudge said:


> ...and I've never used a second card slot (although testing the R's instant smartphone backup, it definitely would give me ample peace of mind in any situation that would call for one).



Just curious...are these backups to phone full sized RAW, or just jpgs?

Thanks in advance,

cayenne


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## rrcphoto (Apr 3, 2019)

cayenne said:


> Just curious...are these backups to phone full sized RAW, or just jpgs?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> cayenne


full size JPG


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## cayenne (Apr 3, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> Why not? I have seen here several people complaining that pros need two card slots and always mentioning that reliability is an issue (i.e. probability of losing pictures taken due to card failure). From reliability perspective, "a system is never better than its weakest link". If the alleged pro photog thinks the weakest link in his/her photo shooting business is "single card slot" then she/he will definitely go and get a memory card with the best quality possible rather than mourning for one card slot in the camera that he/she has.



With me, I found it very useful to have 2 cards in....shooting concert festivals like JazzFest in New Orleans. In the 'heat of battle', I'm not looking at my card count indicator, and was thankful that I had the extra slot to auto switch to while shooting, and not have to stop due to 1 card full.

It happened more than a couple of times on a full day with multiple artists on multiple stage in action.

Just my $0.02....

cayenne


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## cayenne (Apr 3, 2019)

LSXPhotog said:


> Yes, but it's honestly not a reliable alternative. *As soon as you turn the camera off to change lenses *or it goes into sleep mode you have to get everything set back up again - that alone makes it unrealistic. I have used it in the past, however. I was shooting product photos at a restaurant for their menu and never changed lenses. It worked out nice.




Hmm...interesting....
I never turn my camera off to change lenses.....are you supposed to? What's the +'s and -'s of not turning your camera off to change lenses?

I turn it off to change cards, but not lenses....

cayenne


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2019)

cayenne said:


> Hmm...interesting....
> I never turn my camera off to change lenses.....are you supposed to? What's the +'s and -'s of not turning your camera off to change lenses?
> 
> I turn it off to change cards, but not lenses....


In the case of the EOS R turning off the camera closes the shutter, which protects the sensor. With a DSLR, the mirror does that job.


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## cayenne (Apr 3, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> In the case of the EOS R turning off the camera closes the shutter, which protects the sensor. With a DSLR, the mirror does that job.



Ahh..Ok, thank you for that clarification!!

I learned something new today!!!


cayenne


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## Aussie shooter (Apr 3, 2019)

cayenne said:


> Hmm...interesting....
> I never turn my camera off to change lenses.....are you supposed to? What's the +'s and -'s of not turning your camera off to change lenses?
> 
> I turn it off to change cards, but not lenses....
> ...


Also as far as I know. When the camera is on the sensor creates a static field which will attract dust.


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## Don Haines (Apr 4, 2019)

cayenne said:


> Ahh..Ok, thank you for that clarification!!
> 
> I learned something new today!!!
> 
> ...


Likewise!


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## MaxDiesel (Apr 6, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> not true at all.
> 
> focus shift is a problem which is why Sony goes through such pains with some of their lenses that only AF stopped down and not wide open.



Focus Shift (focus needing adjustment after changing aperture) — This has nothing to do with AMFA. 

AMFA is permanent at the sensor for a specific lens. Focus Shift is due the lens design.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 8, 2019)

MaxDiesel said:


> Focus Shift (focus needing adjustment after changing aperture) — This has nothing to do with AMFA.
> 
> AMFA is permanent at the sensor for a specific lens. Focus Shift is due the lens design.



Semantics. But regardless, AF from the sensor is not infallible.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 8, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> Semantics. But regardless, AF from the sensor is not infallible.


Calling it semantics doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong. You brought up the issue of focus shift with the example of Sony lenses that focused when stopped down, that indicates you know the meaning of the term focus shift. AFMA doesn’t correct focus shift (at least, no current implementation does although it would be possible to accomplish that if a manufacturer chose to do so). 

No AF is infallible.


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## MaxDiesel (Apr 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Calling it semantics doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong. You brought up the issue of focus shift with the example of Sony lenses that focused when stopped down, that indicates you know the meaning of the term focus shift. AFMA doesn’t correct focus shift (at least, no current implementation does although it would be possible to accomplish that if a manufacturer chose to do so).
> 
> No AF is infallible.



You beat me to it... not semantics at all, rrcphoto you simply just wrong. 
Its ok to be wrong buddy, we all learn from each other. Thats the beauty of the web.


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## Gillettecavalcad3 (Apr 11, 2019)

I signed up to Canon Rumors as I was awaiting the new big firmware update that Canon promised for the EOSR, ...turned out they quietly released a firmware update that didn't offer much.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 11, 2019)

Gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I signed up to Canon Rumors as I was awaiting the new big firmware update that Canon promised for the EOSR, ...turned out they quietly released a firmware update that didn't offer much.


Presumably you mean v1.1.0 which came out in February. The v1.2.0 firmware (eyeAF, etc.) is due out next week, according to Canon Canada. See the front page of the site.


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