# Pick between two options for the Canon 7D II



## RGF (Jun 25, 2013)

Hard choice. In the end I would go with lower MP (assuming that they are clean) and better S/N and gain FPS.


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## dgatwood (Jun 25, 2013)

Very difficult choice. I'd definitely give up FPS for better low-light performance. The megapixel question is a little harder, because you can always do binning on the RAW file to get a lower megapixel image with better SNR. The answer really depends on *how much better* noise levels we're talking about.


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## cellomaster27 (Jun 25, 2013)

Aw man. The title of the post got me excited until the two options to vote. I don't really care about fps, I think it's okay already though that will mostly likely be improved with a newer digic chip. Higher iso performance is a must!! Megapixels.. Will be the same or better, right? Why would it go down.. Cleaner images at high iso will determine my purchase. A usable 25k iso?? ^^


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## M.ST (Jun 25, 2013)

None of them.

20/21 Megapixel with 9/10 frames per second, two CF card slots, superfast Hybrid AF System (usable down to -5 EV), new sensor design, new battery, ISO usable to 3200, outstanding image quality from ISO 50 to ISO 800, AEB (with 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11 shots), build in electronic ND and GND filter, shutter durability up to 200.000 shots and without all the junk like in camera HDR, HTP, ALO, rate function etc.


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## Dick (Jun 25, 2013)

I don't like those options at all. 

ISO 6400 is not really usable on 5D3, so on 7D2? Not gonna happen... I guess this comes down to the definition of "usable". My shooting style is to avoid high ISOs especially when it's dark.

Then the slow burst rate combined with the higher mega pickles... What's the point? Well, if it's a macro only camera then yeah, I'd go with this options just to get more room for additional cropping.


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## J.R. (Jun 25, 2013)

Picking better ISO performance as opposed to higher MP is my choice. 9 FPS will be a bonus it at all it is provided. 

I'd be happy though if Canon were to serve a "middle ground" 7D2 which, in my opinion is more likely. Usable ISO 3200, 20 MP and 8 fps and good AF - I'd probably buy it.


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## -Jarred- (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm another not too fussed with FPS. I'd be happy with 8 like the current 7D has. Give it the 5DIII AF/metering and a 16-whateverMP sensor that gives clean images up to ISO1600, and usable up to 3200. and I'll be sold. I'd rather it didn't have the integrated grip like some of the rumors have mentioned though.


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## RGF (Jun 25, 2013)

I agree that this is a hard choice. I suspect that Canon will need to decide between similar options. What ever they decide, some of us will be unhappy.


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## CanNotYet (Jun 25, 2013)

I agree that the options offered are not optimal, but between those two, lower MP and better Hi-ISO/speed wins out.

To me, 7D is and always will be a sports/wildlife/action camera, not a studio/landscape camera. And, assuming Canon thinks so too, and keeps with it, the 7D2 benefits from both higher FPS and better hi-ISO to enable faster shutter speeds.

I think Canon needs a "crop 1DX", and the 7D2 is right now the best candidate for that. The other crop cameras from Canon are merging more and more towards video cameras, with their variangle screens and all. Who knows, Canon might try to saturate the market with both a sports version and a studio version of the 7D? 

But, bottom line, low MP and speed over high MP.


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## Robert Welch (Jun 25, 2013)

Dick said:


> ...ISO 6400 is not really usable on 5D3, so on 7D2? Not gonna happen... I guess this comes down to the definition of "usable". My shooting style is to avoid high ISOs especially when it's dark....



This is the first I've ever seen this opinion, I find 6400 quite 'usable' on both my 5Dmk3 and 6D. I do agree that one must define 'usable', and if you don't want to see any grain in your photo when you view it at 200% on a monitor, then perhaps you won't find it 'usable'. However, if you want to make nice looking prints, even at rather large sizes, a well exposed file at 6400iso from these cameras should do nicely. As far as avoiding high ISOs when it's dark, well that simply makes no sense at all. I suppose when it gets dark you lower the ISO? Well, no comment.

As for the 7DmkII, or whatever it will be called, I'm not too keen on cropped sensor cameras anymore. My 7D may be the last one I'll own. I think the cropped sensor has 2 places, for cheaper cameras like the Rebel series, and perhaps for a high performance sports/action camera where the longer effective focal length of tele lenses becomes an advantage. For the later, high FPS and good high ISO would be be important, so the 2nd option would be preferable. I should think that 'usable' 3200 iso would be reasonably easy to achieve these days with current technology. The 7D really isn't that bad at 3200, it just loses detail when compared to it's full frame alternatives because of heavy handed NR. They just need to get the high ISO detail retention up, and improve the AF to the accuracy of the 5D3 and it will be attractive to sports and other similarly minded photographers. For portrait/wedding photographers like myself, I feel the cropped sensor cameras are no longer of value.


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## alexanderferdinand (Jun 25, 2013)

I love my "only" 16MP 1D4 a lot.
(and there is this yellow cam, has only 12MP on a FF- sensor; rumors say, it is a good one...)
A 7D should be a sportscamera. And we all know, the light can´t be enough for freezing action.
So: 16MP, high FPS. 
Would have no problem with 12MP, with very low noise, BTW


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## Pancho (Jun 25, 2013)

7DII : Sport / Wildlife => speed, speed, speed.
AF must be fast and accurate even on moving objects.
High speed exposition so High ISO capability is a must.
High FPS.. Of course it is needed!
So, definitly, the second option is mine.
High MP is important to be able to crop and gain even more reach. But this can be obtained by choosing the right lens, while for high ISO and FPS, the lens choice can not do a lot of things...


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## eLroberto (Jun 25, 2013)

M.ST said:


> None of them.
> 
> 20/21 Megapixel with 9/10 frames per second, two CF card slots, superfast Hybrid AF System (usable down to -5 EV), new sensor design, new battery, ISO usable to 3200, outstanding image quality from ISO 50 to ISO 800, AEB (with 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11 shots), build in electronic ND and GND filter, shutter durability up to 200.000 shots and without all the junk like in camera HDR, HTP, ALO, rate function etc.


+1 but by now I would be happy with a bit less mp and fps

kind regards, eL


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## Drum (Jun 25, 2013)

Higher iso.... but really any sensor development would be welcome.


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## stefsan (Jun 25, 2013)

Tough choice – in the end, it all boils down to your definition of usable… Best option would be 24MP with very clean/usable (i.e. no patterned read-out/banding noise) pictures up to ISO 12800 8)


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## Zv (Jun 25, 2013)

I would take any megapixel as long as the ugly noise goes away at all ISOs right up to and including 6400. All else can stay the same for all I care. 7D does well even by todays standards though.


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## jdramirez (Jun 25, 2013)

it isn't a difficult choice for me at all. if I got it as a second body, then I would want the faster frames per second. low light, I would really on my mkiii, but it isn't a tough choice.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jun 25, 2013)

Don't care about mps, 8mp 16:9 aspect would be perfect, 4k and straight downsampling to 1080hd.
Headphone socket, sd slot for ML firmware option to load from, no aliasing. No jello.

Oh yeah and i suppose the capacity to take stills would be nice.

Hoping to get my 7d back soon, cps have called, need new boards in grip and in camera. Praying to have it back for jousting on Saturday.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 25, 2013)

Another vote for low MP & better high ISO.


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## insanitybeard (Jun 25, 2013)

Like the majority, I would prefer improved high ISO performance, even if that requires the MP count to be kept down. I can't imagine a 7D II having less FPS than the original.


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## viggen61 (Jun 25, 2013)

Definitely high ISO & FPS over MP. Birds do NOT sit still!

(well. most of them...)


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## Harry Muff (Jun 25, 2013)

You missed the third one… Availability.


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## 2n10 (Jun 25, 2013)

Definitely high ISO, lower MP.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 25, 2013)

I have to wonder how many that voted for lower MP's and better ISO performance will then turn around and flame the 7d2 if it does in fact end up being low MP high ISO...lol

Ahhhh the 7d2, such a tricky camera to ponder. When I had mine, I rarely had the need to use the high speed - I generally had that turned off because it was just overkill - but then again, I am not a sports shooter!

I guess it can go either way ---a baby 1dx or a baby 5d3...I'd hope for the latter because unless it does have good performance at high ISO, it won't be a camera I will consider...


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## tron (Jun 25, 2013)

Harry Muff said:


> You missed the third one… Availability.


 ;D


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## sandymandy (Jun 25, 2013)

Iso 1600 only? no way


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## tron (Jun 25, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> I have to wonder how many that voted for lower MP's and better ISO performance will then turn around and flame the 7d2 if it does in fact end up being low MP high ISO...lol
> 
> Ahhhh the 7d2, such a tricky camera to ponder. When I had mine, I rarely had the need to use the high speed - I generally had that turned off because it was just overkill - but then again, I am not a sports shooter!
> 
> I guess it can go either way ---a baby 1dx or a baby 5d3...I'd hope for the latter because unless it does have good performance at high ISO, it won't be a camera I will consider...


I wouldn't complain for one. having a 5D2 and 5D3 I believe a 16MPx fast with high ISO capability 7DII would suit me fine. Plus 16MP*1.6*1.6 = 41 MP equivalent pixel density. 
7D was somehow the baby 1D4 (somehow please don't start ...  ) so it is natural for me a low MP high fps count high ISO camera (like 16MP 9fps 6400 max usable ISO) to be the baby 1DX.
Also I consider 6D a baby 5D3 (again ... somehow  )


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## RGF (Jun 25, 2013)

stefsan said:


> Tough choice – in the end, it all boils down to your definition of usable… Best option would be 24MP with very clean/usable (i.e. no patterned read-out/banding noise) pictures up to ISO 12800 8)



In creating this poll, I wanted to get people think about the trade offs. larger sensor, lower usable ISO, lower FPS. Usable ISO is for you to define. Perhaps a better way to state the difference is that at 16 MP, you would have +2 stops of S/N versus at 24 MP.

The thing I learned, perhaps Canon knows this too, that the people who answered this poll (which may be the potential buying public for this body) want better low light capability and higher FPS.


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## ecka (Jun 25, 2013)

3rd option:
28 MP APS-H, usable ISO 6400, 8 FPS + EF-S compatible in 18MP crop mode with 10fps


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 25, 2013)

ecka said:


> 3rd option:
> 28 MP APS-H, usable ISO 6400, 8 FPS + EF-S compatible in 18MP crop mode with 10fps



APs-H? Now come on, you know that ain't happening, it will be the good old 1.6 crop. 

Also, a jack of all trades camera like that would compromise on certain things. With such a huge file size 8 FPS is dreaming.

I'd much rather it be specialized ---optimized for whichever direction - do you want speed and high ISO, or big MP's? Canon does need to get a slow camera out there, optimized for IQ and low ISO performance (the good old DR debate), but that most certainly ain't happening if you go jack of all trades. Again, the 7d was very popular among sports and wildlife shooters, where FPS and ISO capabilities rule. the other camp is those stepping up from the rebel bodies but don't quite have the budget to go FF. I was one of those users, and while I loved the 7d for the time I had it, it wasn't the camera I needed. 

The next 7d will mostly be a baby 1dx, lower mp's, high fps, some form of the 1dx AF, and much better performance at high ISO's.


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## Hobby Shooter (Jun 25, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> ecka said:
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> > 3rd option:
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 I agree with you here. I didn't vote as neither of the options seemed realistic. Baby 1Dx seems logical and also what many people wish for. Not me though. I'm happy with what I have at the moment and can't afford to get more bodies at this point.


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## ecka (Jun 25, 2013)

Hobby Shooter said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
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Yes, it is just another "while-we-are-dreaming" option 

However...



> With such a huge file size 8 FPS is dreaming


Why should we expect the same data processing speed? Both OP's options are more like current 7D variations.



> Canon does need to get a slow camera out there, optimized for IQ and low ISO performance


6D is just like that.


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## Hobby Shooter (Jun 25, 2013)

ecka said:


> Hobby Shooter said:
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An that's what a rumor forum is for ;D That's one of the reasons many of us are here.


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## unfocused (Jun 25, 2013)

RGF said:


> The thing I learned, perhaps Canon knows this too, that the people who answered this poll (which may be the potential buying public for this body) want better low light capability and higher FPS.



Well, the potential buying public needs to be more than 79 people. 

Actually, I've always argued that the potential buying public for the 7DII will fall into about four intersecting categories: 

Current 7D owners who are basically happy with the camera and are seeking some marginal improvements in all areas – essentially an APS-C version of the 5DIII with image quality equal to or better than the final generation of APS-H sensor;

Current 60D owners who are tired of the compromises and ready to step-up to the flagship APS-C model;

Sports and wildlife shooters who want the reach of APS-C, but also want a high frame rate, improved autofocus and improved image quality at higher ISOs;

Full frame shooters who want the additional flexibility of an APS-C body as a second body. 

All of these markets can be satisfied with incremental improvements in what remains the best APS-C camera made even four years after its introduction.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 25, 2013)

ecka said:


> > Canon does need to get a slow camera out there, optimized for IQ and low ISO performance
> 
> 
> 6D is just like that.



While i have the 6d, and yes it is a fine backup body to my 5d3, what I was referring to is the much rumored big MP body. I said LOW ISO performance, better IQ in the 100-800 range. The 6d shines in the high ISO.


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## tron (Jun 25, 2013)

ecka said:


> 3rd option:
> 28 MP APS-H, usable ISO 6400, 8 FPS + EF-S compatible in 18MP crop mode with 10fps


... with a flying elephant that will help us carry all our gear ;D ;D ;D

Seriously, don't get me wrong but as the OP said it's about compromise.
I don't believe that Canon can/will improve in all aspects in a new APS-C body...


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## ecka (Jun 25, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> ecka said:
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> > > Canon does need to get a slow camera out there, optimized for IQ and low ISO performance
> ...



Yes, I like mine too. For now, ~20MP is enough, but if there was an option of high MP FF camera, let say ... 6.5D 50MP, 1fps, usable ISO 1600, for $2000 ... I would get it instead of 6D (specially if it was mirrorless ) )


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## ecka (Jun 25, 2013)

tron said:


> ecka said:
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They can, but they won't. Don't get me wrong, but OP's options are so ... 2011 SoNikon, really .
It is always about compromise, but I think that withholding progress for more or stable profit is a crime against humanity ... and they do it all the time, because they are profit-seeking companies.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 25, 2013)

ecka said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
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You are a dreamer!!!! 50MP body APS-C sensor for 2k? that sounds like what we'll have in 2020!


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## ecka (Jun 26, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> ecka said:
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I was talking about FF, but, yes, I am a dreamer .


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## RGF (Jun 26, 2013)

unfocused said:


> RGF said:
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> > The thing I learned, perhaps Canon knows this too, that the people who answered this poll (which may be the potential buying public for this body) want better low light capability and higher FPS.
> ...



And is our make up much different that these four groups (other than we are quite vocal)?


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## cellomaster27 (Jun 27, 2013)

Soooo, now that the 70D is known to come with a 20.2 mp sensor, that changes the future make up of the 7D mark ii.  I honestly think that anything below 18 is out of the picture. Especially 16. If they come out with a newer 18mp sensor and a faster fps and better iso performance with a newer digic processor, it's a winner. Remember, the amazing 1D x is 18 mp. If the 7D mark ii comes with a 20.2 mp sensor or something else, that's okay too. Fps wise, the 70D will have 7fps.. The new 7D has got to have more.. I'd say around 10. But that's me. Ill stop blabbing. I think I'm just too excited. ;D


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## ashmadux (Jun 27, 2013)

Dick said:


> I don't like those options at all.
> 
> ISO 6400 is not really usable on 5D3, so on 7D2? Not gonna happen... I guess this comes down to the definition of "usable". My shooting style is to avoid high ISOs especially when it's dark.
> 
> Then the slow burst rate combined with the higher mega pickles... What's the point? Well, if it's a macro only camera then yeah, I'd go with this options just to get more room for additional cropping.




Megapickles? ROFL. Best typo ever.

Why do you say 5d3 not usable at 6400...there's been some truly awesome example online at even 12800 (or am i thinking the 6d?)

?


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 27, 2013)

ashmadux said:


> Dick said:
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> > I don't like those options at all.
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From both the mk3 and the 6d...the 6d has a slight edge at higher ISO's but not by much. My guess is that this comment is from someone who likes to work in the lowest ISO's possible. To each their own, I have no problem with either the mk3 or the 6d at or above 6400


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## Krob78 (Jun 28, 2013)

ashmadux said:


> Dick said:
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> > I don't like those options at all.
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I've had no issues with my 5d mkIII shooting very usable images at iso 6400 and highter...


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## Krob78 (Jun 28, 2013)

After seeing the specs on the new 70D, there seems to be mounting hope that the 7D MkII is going to be an awesome upgrade from the first 7d version... I think it's so!


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## Roadtrip (Jun 28, 2013)

Wide range ISO, great sensor performance, dual card slots (CF, SD who cares?), FPS - again, who cares? If you're into sports it matters…for the rest of us, it's image quality, not FPS. Until Canon delivers a camera worth ditching my 30D (or 10S film camera for that matter), I'm staying put. CANON, make me proud! Give me something worth trading up for!


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## m.malvitz (Jun 28, 2013)

What type of toggle with this have? Do you think it will go back to the joystick of the 50D and 5D MkIII? Or will it be the pad in the 60D and 6D?


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## tron (Jun 28, 2013)

m.malvitz said:


> What type of toggle with this have? Do you think it will go back to the joystick of the 50D and 5D MkIII? Or will it be the pad in the 60D and 6D?


I bet the joystick will be there. It will have AF 19 points at least so omitting it would cripple the AF somehow...


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## ecka (Jun 28, 2013)

Roadtrip said:


> Wide range ISO, great sensor performance, dual card slots (CF, SD who cares?), FPS - again, who cares? If you're into sports it matters…for the rest of us, it's image quality, not FPS. Until Canon delivers a camera worth ditching my 30D (or 10S film camera for that matter), I'm staying put. CANON, make me proud! Give me something worth trading up for!



If you care about image quality that much, then you shouldn't look at crop sensor cameras.


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## Alejandro Calori (Jun 28, 2013)

¿How about this?

20.2 CMOS
Dual Digic 5+
14 fps
Dual CF Cards
etc, etc, etc.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 28, 2013)

Krob78 said:


> ashmadux said:
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> > Dick said:
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I like mega pickles too...but as to the best typo, go check the 70d spec topic...feature number 3!

the OP edited the typo out, but it is preserved via insert quote ;D



alan_k said:


> Dylan777 said:
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> > My 2cents for 7D II:
> ...


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## tron (Jun 28, 2013)

Alejandro Calori said:


> ¿How about this?
> 
> 20.2 CMOS
> Dual Digic 5+
> ...


I like your specs but I believe not all are realistic.

20.2 CMOS YES
Dual Digic 5+ YES
14 fps NO 10fps probably (just like 7D fps rate was less than 1D4's)
Dual CF Cards NO either one or 1CF and 1SD (it will not equal 1DX)

Still, nice specs...


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## tron (Jun 28, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Krob78 said:
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Will this "feature" be the same in all continents or they will be variations depending whether the model is sold, like Japan, EU or USA? ;D ;D ;D

(Just like Kiss/Rebel/ etc...)


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## Krob78 (Jun 28, 2013)

tron said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
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Could be the new feature make cause some folks to order their new cameras as "grey market"...


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 28, 2013)

tron said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
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LOL...possibly...i am a little worried about how they will store these, I mean, gotta be exepensive to maintain the wife feature....lol


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## garyknrd (Jun 28, 2013)

So far the 7DII is vapor ware..... :'( I personally do not see it ever making it to market. Hope I am wrong. We will see. But I aint waiting on it anymore for sure. The next really good crop camera that comes along and I am shelving the Canon gear.


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## Krob78 (Jun 28, 2013)

garyknrd said:


> So far the 7DII is vapor ware..... :'( I personally do not see it ever making it to market. Hope I am wrong. We will see. But I aint waiting on it anymore for sure.


Why not? I think Don Haines mentioned that even Canon said the 7D MkII would be a "game changer"?


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## tron (Jun 28, 2013)

Krob78 said:


> tron said:
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Or even get multiple bodies (for redundancy of course) ;D


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## Krob78 (Jun 28, 2013)

tron said:


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One should always have a backup body... or two... ;D


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## tron (Jun 28, 2013)

Krob78 said:


> tron said:
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Bought from a separate place (one grey market one through Canon representatives) ;D


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## J.R. (Jun 28, 2013)

tron said:


> Krob78 said:
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Hahaha ... Dylan777's 2cents went a long way ;D


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## jdramirez (Jun 29, 2013)

I've slept with my gear around my neck... but never slept with my gear...


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