# Canon CEO Very Dismayed by Brexit, Could Halt Japan Recovery



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 24, 2016)

```
From <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-canon-idUSL4N19G3ZY">Reuters</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Canon Inc Chief Executive Fujio Mitarai said on Friday he was “very dismayed” by Britain’s shock decision to leave the European Union, saying the move hurt Japan’s economic growth prospects.</p>
<p>“In Japan, while we can expect to see a temporary surge in the value of the yen, the U.K.’s decision could also bring a halt to the economic recovery that had been underway,” Mitarai, head of the camera and printer maker, said in a statement.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-canon-idUSL4N19G3ZY">Read more</a></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## GuyF (Jun 24, 2016)

Well this is what happens when you don't supply a printed manual with your flagship camera in the UK and charge £5200 for the privilage.

On a more serious note, what's all the bloody panic? It's only a shock if you haven't been following European politics. The notion that the world will fall apart just because one nation doesn't want to be part of a club? :

There will still be trade on a global scale, there will still be money sloshing from nation to nation. The UK will still buy French cheese/wine, German cars, Japanese electronics, Italian guacamole....

Keep calm and carry a camera.


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## PhotographyFirst (Jun 24, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> [rant]
> 
> Wonder what he'll say when Emperor Trump is elected, he pulls the 'trade war' lever and the US starts building all its electronics domestically like he promised. :-[
> 
> ...



As someone who has lived in Canada, it's not as green-grassed as many seem to think. Plenty of their own problems socially and politically. 

On topic 
I sure hope the slow economic recovery doesn't cause any additional exits from the camera market, like Samsung.


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## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

GuyF said:


> On a more serious note, what's all the bloody panic? It's only a shock if you haven't been following European politics. The notion that the world will fall apart just because one nation doesn't want to be part of a club? :
> 
> There will still be trade on a global scale, there will still be money sloshing from nation to nation. The UK will still buy French cheese/wine, German cars, Japanese electronics, Italian guacamole....



As an American, I'm far less worried about markets, what 'region' England and Wales will fall in, etc. than I am about the coalition of folks who voted 'Leave': _it's highly consistent with Trump's core people and message._

So, no, the Brexit is just a decision that's not directly my business and I won't lose sleep over it. But I _will_ lose sleep over a wave of xenophobia, nationalism, and exclusion rising in all corners of world politics right now. 



GuyF said:


> Keep calm and carry a camera.



Better advice has never been given. 

- A


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## j-nord (Jun 24, 2016)

Incredibly good move for Britain.


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## Lt Colonel (Jun 24, 2016)

I guess the EU voters weren't interested in the economic recovery of Japan, but rather the current environment they are living in which is often not necessarily the same socioeconomic environment that the political leaders live in. 

Sounds vaguely familiar to our political leadership in both chambers and both sides of the isle. 

I, Like hopefully each one here, hope this doesn't negatively impact Canon or the production of their fine products. However, I doubt that residents of Japan give a lot of thought to the impact of foreign nations when they vote on issues concerning their home environment.


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## George D. (Jun 24, 2016)

There is high currency volatility right now so (camera/lens) import/export prices must be re-adjusted, how much nobody knows. 

5D Mk. IV launch in August? We shall see.


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## Maximilian (Jun 24, 2016)

As a EU citizen (German) I am quite disappointed (I won't call it dismayed) of the decision of the people of Britain but I always respect democratic decisions.

I believe that it is not good for the EU but am very sure that it'll be much worse for Britain. 
I am sure that the EU will gain strength from it and there is a higher danger of Great Brtain falling apart (see Scotland) than the EU.

I hope (but don't really believe) that politicians all over the world might learn their lesson of pusuing more the peoples needs.


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## unfocused (Jun 24, 2016)

Good reminder of how coddled most of us on the forum are. We sit here debating cameras and lenses that cost thousands of (pick your currency), while even in the "stable" economies of the world many workers have seen their incomes fall during a period that economists have had the audacity to label a "recovery." I don't know what the solution is, but clearly the current system isn't working for a majority of people.


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## ahsanford (Jun 24, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Good reminder of how coddled most of us on the forum are. We sit here debating cameras and lenses that cost thousands of (pick your currency), while even in the "stable" economies of the world many workers have seen their incomes fall during a period that economists have had the audacity to label a "recovery." I don't know what the solution is, but clearly the current system isn't working for a majority of people.



Agree, of course, but the idea that the Brexit was a referendum on 'things are awesome' (Remain) vs. 'blow s--- up and start over' (Leave) is simply not true, just like a vote for HRC is a vote for 'America Rocks Right Now' vs. a vote for DT being 'America Will Rock _Again_'. 

It's far far far more nuanced than that, but in an up-down / left v. right vote, we tend to associate these cartoonishly polarized positions the opposite of one another. 

But I'm sure you know this forum isn't full one 1%-ers, regardless of how much we sink (or would like to sink) into photography gear.

- A


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jun 24, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> As a EU citizen (German) I am quite disappointed (I won't call it dismayed) of the decision of the people of Britain but I always respect democratic decisions.



As a German you are disappointed, as a Brit I am horrified!


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## SwnSng (Jun 24, 2016)

Or is it just a sly move by the head of Canon as a scapegoat to raise prices :


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## davidmurray (Jun 24, 2016)

j-nord said:


> Incredibly good move for Britain.



+1

It won't change whether or not people want to buy a Canon camera.

Agreed - the current exchange rate fluctuations are just short term currency speculation - because the outcome was known to be a likely outcome.

Also agreed - this is an off topic thread for this non-political forum and the initial post and entire thread should be removed due to its political nature.


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## rcarca (Jun 24, 2016)

johnf3f said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > As a EU citizen (German) I am quite disappointed (I won't call it dismayed) of the decision of the people of Britain but I always respect democratic decisions.
> ...



+1000 I cannot believe it...

I haven't been able to pick a camera up today!


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## slclick (Jun 24, 2016)

If Canon halts or suspends production on any anticipated bodies then popcorn sales will go through the roof! Just how many pages of threads can we endure while waiting for the 5D4?


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## Tangent (Jun 24, 2016)

At this time I would like to express my sincere and heartfelt good hopes for the happiness and prosperity of all the people of Britain that will transcend this transitory crisis, and for universal enlightenment, peace and joy everywhere amidst the brotherhood of all mankind...and womankind...and everyone else, too. And for all the cats as well.


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## IglooEater (Jun 25, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> [rant]
> Like _move-to-Canada_ terrified.
> 
> [/rant]
> ...



Lol, cause Justin Trudeau is obviously better. I was move-to-Africa terrified when Trudeau was elected...


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## slclick (Jun 25, 2016)

This thread has zero chance to stay civil. Lock it and get back to sensor debates, DR and other double plus good topics.


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## ahsanford (Jun 25, 2016)

slclick said:


> This thread has zero chance to stay civil. Lock it and get back to sensor debates, DR and other double plus good topics.



Agree. I deleted my planned reply just now. 

My sincere apologies to the forum for taking it there. 

- A


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## davidmurray (Jun 25, 2016)

slclick said:


> This thread has zero chance to stay civil. Lock it and get back to sensor debates, DR and other double plus good topics.



It's a political thread and the whole thing should be deleted, and the OP warned for posting something that infringes the usage terms for this forum.


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## Valvebounce (Jun 25, 2016)

Hi David. 
As it came from CR Admin, I don't see it getting locked, also some other threads started to get political responses in the posts so it is probably better to focus it all in one place and keep the rest of the forum clean, after all this apparently doesn't only affect us Brits, it seems that our getting out first is having a ripple affect around the globe, I heard on the radio (so it must be true ;D ) that several other member countries are now thinking of getting out! 

Cheers, Graham. 



davidmurray said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > This thread has zero chance to stay civil. Lock it and get back to sensor debates, DR and other double plus good topics.
> ...


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## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > This thread has zero chance to stay civil. Lock it and get back to sensor debates, DR and other double plus good topics.
> ...


The OP is the administrator.....


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## davidmurray (Jun 25, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



Yes. :


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## Don Haines (Jun 25, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > davidmurray said:
> ...


There is no place for religion or politics in online debates.... Neither will lead to any resolution and will cause flame wars and hurt feelings all round....


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## Khufu (Jun 25, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > davidmurray said:
> ...


You did the tonguey-smiley and everything, brah... I don't know what more you could have done.

Well, I clearly identified the facetious twonk; but maybe it really does take one to know one


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## davidmurray (Jun 25, 2016)

Khufu said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



I thought it took the edge off the thread quite nicely. ;D :


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## pvalpha (Jun 25, 2016)

Maybe we should use photography in relation to these sentiments instead rather than attempting to impress upon one another "ideals" that each of us give emotions and voice to that none of us can possibly extract from simple text relayed on a message board. After all, Canon produced cameras... we bought them. Can you think of something better to do? 

There are so many things we cannot control. 
Fortunately, the shutter button(s) of our camera(s) is(are) not one of them.


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## YuengLinger (Jun 25, 2016)

Ok, but maybe we could get back onto the topic?

Are the Japanese thinking that British incomes will go down even more and buy less of the remaining Japanese brands of electronics?

Is British spending actually that much a part of Japanese exports? Compared to the rest of Europe, all of Asia, North and South America, Australia, Africa? 

Or are they worried Brexit leads to turmoil and more exits? 

I don't think the topic has to automatically lead to political rants. Look at it from a camera customer perspective and (a stretch, I know) Japanese executive's perspective.


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## Random Orbits (Jun 25, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> Ok, but maybe we could get back onto the topic?
> 
> Are the Japanese thinking that British incomes will go down even more and buy less of the remaining Japanese brands of electronics?
> 
> ...



The article implied that he is worried that the pound and the euro will both weaken against the yen. An EU without the UK is weaker than with it, and that may be reflected in the value of euro vs. yen. The pound has weakened already but if the euro weakens against the yen too, then it will be harder to sell in all of Europe and the entire European market is a large part of Canon's sales.


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## davidmurray (Jun 25, 2016)

Random Orbits said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, but maybe we could get back onto the topic?
> ...



Canon's market share will remain unchanged because all the other camera makers will still be making as much - they just put their "recommended Retail Price" up.


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## arthurbikemad (Jun 25, 2016)

Perhaps Mr Canon should focus  on production and worry less about the UK and the EU.


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## Maximilian (Jun 25, 2016)

rcarca said:


> johnf3f said:
> 
> 
> > Maximilian said:
> ...


Hi johnf3f and rcarca!

I feel with you and the other 48% of those who voted like you and I would have preferred. 
But there are the other 52% and there is something called democracy. 
And if there was a referendum in Germany I suppose the gap wouldn't be that close. 
But when I see that young British lady interviewed in German tv and she says: "Oh, the weather was so fine. But now I feel I should have gone voting." I think [heavily censored]. 
Democracy is to accept the will of the majority, even if it seems wrong. And it is to apply oneself, at least go voting. I never missed any election or referendum, even if it was hard to decide what to vote for. 

And again, the politicians, esp. PM Cameron, were only/mostly campaining with fear but not with all the good things we achieved from the EU. And there was another lady on tv. She said something like: "What a tragedy for us and for our children. If we'd stayed in we would have had the chance to make the EU better. No we'll miss this opportunity." That's 100% what I think, too. :'(


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## arthurbikemad (Jun 25, 2016)

You will only be able to judge the decision in 43 years time 

Also the UK is leading the way right now, looks like this is only the beginning of the end for the EU.

I think the pig headed attitude of the EU leaders will be their demise.

I am disappointed in the attitude from the EU governors, they have made it VERY clear the decision by the UK people CAN NOT and WILL NOT be reversed!!!

Toys - Out - Pram.

As an Englishman, I have no concerns, we have won before and we will win again.


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## msatter (Jun 25, 2016)

The Dutch voted in all referenda against Europe and we are still stuck wiith Europe. I don't think that a government will ask us again...ever.


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## GuyF (Jun 25, 2016)

The UK government can actually vote among themselves to ignore the referendum result but it would be political suicide to ignore the voice of the people.

What the result shows is the majority of voters care more for control of the country's destiny over the amount of money in their pocket. Some things are worth more than money. And don't forget, the result was very close to 50/50.

Democracy in action, folks, democracy in action.

(Just for the record, I'm Scottish and 62% of us voted to remain in the EU. I won't say how I voted. 8))

Anyway, the key question from this is how will the result impact on what DXO will say about the dynamic range of the 1DX2?


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## mb66energy (Jun 25, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Good reminder of how coddled most of us on the forum are. We sit here debating cameras and lenses that cost thousands of (pick your currency), while even in the "stable" economies of the world many workers have seen their incomes fall during a period that economists have had the audacity to label a "recovery." I don't know what the solution is, but clearly the current system isn't working for a majority of people.



A very focused analysis. I had the same "salary class" 16 years before - it is now roughly 65 % in real value. I corrected for inflation. My income is much more than enough to survive and "after surviving" there is a good amount to spent for ... interesting hardware. So no reason to complain.

But it also affected those who had enough to survice 16 years before + some extra money for recreation, hobbies etc. - they earn only the money to survice today. 8.50 is the minimum hourly salary in germany - resulting in 1360 Euro per month brutto (40 hrs a week). Netto is sth. around 900 Euro - a simple 2-room flat is 500 Euro per month with energy costs etc. A car often necessary for work. Survival - nothing less nothing more.


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## mb66energy (Jun 25, 2016)

Maybe Britain will stay closer to the US in the future and there is no market loss for Canon from these people.

Hopefully the Brexit is a wake-up-call to reinstall a working principle of subsidiarity in the EU to create a more resilient EU -- with a stronger Euro. My main concern is that the EU regulates to much regional and local things but doesn't touch these things that must be regulated for a continent (e.g. speculation tax).

So I don't see to much worries for Canon. And if the EU falls apart we will have a bunch problems where "the latest, best equipment" isn't a camera but a gasoline cooker + enough fuel, 2000 m² of arable land and fence to protect it.
enough

(A hint to Canon: The last 5 years have shown great devices from you, but there hasn't been a lot for me. I would REALLY LIKE a FF EOS M with direct controls for the main parameters and a good haptic and visual feedback + DPAF -- A F1-n might be a good starting point in terms of haptics. And put a f-stop ring around the bajonet base with clicks to count f-stop changes while composing + shoulder display showing the main parameters always.)


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## expatinasia (Jun 25, 2016)

GuyF said:


> On a more serious note, what's all the bloody panic? It's only a shock if you haven't been following European politics. The notion that the world will fall apart just because one nation doesn't want to be part of a club? :



Twas Pandora's box which just opened!

Just you see what happens, this could cause a global crisis.

Oh, and it wasn't just "one nation", it is a nation which has shaped the course of history for many of here today.


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## Stu_bert (Jun 25, 2016)

Political bit


The problem for me was that as seems typical of any political campain in recent years, there were far too many lies and bending of truths, the media did a poor job to highlight it, and simplifying it to a yes/no vote is an insult to people's intelligence. Everything from how much we could pump into the NHS, to the economic forecasts, both sides spent 95% of the time just pressing people's buttons by distorting the truth. And the media just joined in as frankly all they seemed to care about is increasing their circulation.

As was mentioned, many people did vote with emotion to make a point about how unhappy they were, as the current democratic system has very few opportunities for feedback. So we can't ask the british public their top 3 things which had to be radically improved for them to stay in the EU, all we can do is go yes/no. Dumb it down, and look what happens.  

On the plus side, I hope it gives food for thought to all political institutions on how crude the democratic system can be, and therefore the inability to hear what citizens want. Feedback may be onerous, but if you leave it to referendums and elections, then you risk stability of the your economy and the global economy. Of course it (the global) will recover, but perhaps such swings could be avoided?

As to the actual outcome, I doubt you can truly get a feel for whether the decision was right or wrong without a sensible amount of time ie circa 10 years. It will take 2-3 years for all the agreements to be in place, longer for businesses to adjust, and equally as long for the politicians to fix the issues that were highest in people's minds. And if it is concluded that the decision was incorrect, would we be prepared to admit we were wrong, and for the rest of the EU to accept that?


Canon

Canon has a fiscal responsibility to its shareholders to highlight this - but doing so immediately does raise eyebrows - the situation is the same for all the companies which have significant trade with Europe. Any depreciation in the european currencies will inflate prices of imports into Europe. Why did Canon feel the need to say this immediately? Was that something to do with their current sales in Europe? Ultimately lower sales = less investment which is unfortunate, still it wont affect the mk IV or the 6D mk II, but it may impact anything planned for the 2nd half of 2017 and beyond


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## GuyF (Jun 25, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> Twas Pandora's box which just opened!
> 
> Oh, and it wasn't just "one nation", it is a nation which has shaped the course of history for many of here today.



A fair point but things change - as one political commentator noted, Britain ran the world in the 19th century, the US ran it in the 20th and China/far east will run the world in the 21st. Britain may have the 5th largest economy but we're not the world power we once were.

It appears the referendum result is a reaction to unelected people in Brussels making decisions that affect life in the UK and also calling for greater control on immigration. One interview I saw noted that there have been 70 instances where Britain calls for specific action on an issue within the EU and 70 times are over ruled by unelected EU leaders. So why stay in a club that can brush you away quite easily? I appreciate this site isn't a political forum, I just wanted to give an example to our non-EU friends of what goes on.

And as for Pandora's box - I once knew a Pandora but never got to see her box.


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## GuyF (Jun 25, 2016)

Stu_bert said:


> ...there were far too many lies and bending of truths, the media did a poor job to highlight it, and simplifying it to a yes/no vote is an insult to people's intelligence.



+10000000000000000000000


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## arthurbikemad (Jun 25, 2016)

^^^ forum needs a LIKE button.


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## retroreflection (Jun 25, 2016)

As a result of the vote almost every stock price in the world went down. Business execs got nervous, Cannon's felt he had to say something. I disagree with that.
He focused on the value of the yen, because currency manipulation is a wonderful trick for producing a costly product and then selling it at an acceptable price in foreign markets. The currency landscape of the U.S. dollar in the world's largest market and the Euro (with some time to the British pound) in the second biggest market (or is it the biggest? these ranking like to break up the Eurozone so they can continue to blame the U.S. for being the biggest), and then all of the rest was the norm. If the Euro looses one of it's most productive members, then the prospect for a strong Euro are not good. Japan can't afford to manipulate the yen against the dollar and the Euro. The price for Canon gear in Europe is expected to rise, not good for sales volume.

Note, I believe that Canon is not price gouging when the price goes up in countries where the currency has gone down.

And note, Canon's CEO doesn't give a hoot about immigration levels, Brussels based regulation overreach, xenophobia, ... He cares about Canon's ability to deliver expensive and non-vital products to consumers with different currencies.


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## zim (Jun 25, 2016)

Stu_bert said:


> Political bit
> 
> The problem for me was that as seems typical of any political campain in recent years, there were far too many lies and bending of truths, the media did a poor job to highlight it, and simplifying it to a yes/no vote is an insult to people's intelligence. Everything from how much we could pump into the NHS, to the economic forecasts, both sides spent 95% of the time just pressing people's buttons by distorting the truth. And the media just joined in as frankly all they seemed to care about is increasing their circulation.
> 
> ...



What an excellent blood post so true


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## rfdesigner (Jun 25, 2016)

This vote went the way it did because we the people have been largely ignored for a long time by an elite who "knows better".

We were fed lines like "UK will be at the back of the queue for USA trade deal if we leave".

But we don't have a UK-US trade deal, yet we manage to trade very well thank you, as for TTIP I'm very glad we're out.

The EU has become something quite unlike what we entered into in 1973, then it was a trading bloc and on the whole worked relatively well. It has become a red tape machine that damages UK industry, allows (for instance) Spanish factory fishing ships to fish our waters yet insists we break up what little's left of the once substantial UK fishing fleet. It's rules and regulations dictate in favour of big business, yet the UK has a backbone of small business. For instance after the banking failure and resultant unemployment we had an MP on R4 saying if every one man business could take on just one person that we'd have zero unemployment.. the R4 presenter was totally speechless as he could only think of big business. This is part of the problem, the BBC and the rest of the press has lived inside their little "westminster bubble" for so long they have lost any connection with much of the country, so they simply can't comprehend what's happened.

Additionally it is clear the EU wants to change Europe into a "United States of Europe" with them in charge, telling everyone how to do everything... all very soviet.

There is the huge issue of immigration.. now before I go any further here's some details to give our American cousins an idea of what England's like: Population density: imagine taking all the people in california + Taxas and cramming them into michigan without first removing the population of michigan. Now add 300,000 more people from outside every year whilst at the same time having the smallest housing in europe (just over a third the average size of US homes, even the Japanese have bigger homes) and then not building anything close to the volume of housing needed. Today if you're under 40 and live in your own house with or without a mortgage then you are rare and very very lucky. The rate of immigration also depresses wages, so areas with higher than average levels of immigration can see wages depressed by as much as 30 or 40%, which is generally loved by big business but hated by those on the wrong end of the immigration. The people comming are on the whole decent hard working and so on, but when they decide to come to your town in the 10s of thousands and swamp the local population who has lived there for generations it was always going to end badly. Why all this migration?.. because the EU has failed, unemployment is rocketing 50% unemployment for the young in southern EU states, it's a catastrophy, the UK being non-Euro and generally more favourable to small businesses hasn't been dragged into the mire.

Now none of the above means we don't want to trade with the rest of Europe, just we do not want to be ruled by Europe. In fact what we want is to be free to trade with the whole world rather than focussing on a backward looking Nanny knows best stangnant EU.

Which brings us back to Japan.. We want to trade with you.. we REALLY want to trade with you, we want you to come here on holiday or to do business, we love your cameras and will carry on buying loads of them. So please don't panic.


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## GuyF (Jun 25, 2016)

It appears there is a petition with over 1.4m signatures asking for a second referendum if the first has less than a 75% turnout and a winning majority of less than 60%. Seconds out, round two! Ding-ding!

In other news, here in Scotland the First Minister is going to request Scotland be allowed to stay in the EU. Now if Nicola Sturgeon wanted to show a bit of cunning, she would invite the financial businesses of London to come north. London and Scotland both voted to remain so why not work together? Pots of cash head north out of London and Scotland splits from the rest of the UK. It's a crazy thought but just might work. 

As has been previously said, the UK doesn't hate Europe (or any other area), we just wanted to take back a bit of control.

Let's finish on a joke, both Putin and Trump think Brexit is a good thing. Still laughing?


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## setterguy (Jun 25, 2016)

Sorry this site has lowered itself to be about politics versus the science and art of capturing our world. I do not think we should allow this forum to be a vent for politics.


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## msatter (Jun 25, 2016)

setterguy said:


> Sorry this site has lowered itself to be about politics versus the science and art of capturing our world. I do not think we should allow this forum to be a vent for politics.



Let me assure you that politics is everywhere and also in every decision that Canon takes in products offered to us.


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## EduPortas (Jun 25, 2016)

Won't question the political views of the first responder but concentrate on the statement by Canon's CEO.

Lot's of Japanese firms have the same exact concern as him. The same can be said 

about non-British firms who are now forced to waste hundreds of man-hours to stay in your market,

under different conditions than before the Brexit. Again, that is terrible for any industry. 

Business HATES uncertainty. You can check all the financial markets to confirm this simple idea.

That's is exactly what the Brexit has created and affects everyone else in a global economy.


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## msatter (Jun 25, 2016)

EduPortas said:


> Won't question the political views of the first responder but concentrate on the statement by Canon's CEO.
> 
> Lot's of Japanese firms have the same exact concern as him. The same can be said about non-British firms who are now forced to waste hundreds of man-hours to stay in your market, under different conditions than before the Brexit. Again, that is terrible for any industry.
> 
> ...



That is why we had first the BeNeLux and later the EU. The EU was transformed to a pure political vehicle with the Maastricht...Lissabon treaty and by the introduction of the EURO.

If the EU was still the organization it meant to be, no one would think about leaving it. We did screw up this and now we have look how can make it a better Europe in which GB feels home again.


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## scrup (Jun 25, 2016)

I though GB was a strong nation that could influence. If they could not influence the EU to change their ways what say do they have in the wider world.

Maybe they got rid of the shackles, but at what cost to the country. They took the easy way out and IMO didn't really think it through. 

Cameras are luxury items, fluctuations don't hurt the general public, they don't depend on it like oil. Canon will lose profit but they should have already planned for currency changes.


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## C-A430 (Jun 25, 2016)

I am interpreting Fujio Mitarais statement quite differently than most of participants in this topic.

In first part it sounds like he considers strong Yen a good thing, at least for Japan if not for Canon inc.
“In Japan, while we can expect to see a temporary surge in the value of the yen,

Second part part sound different, as if it should begin with BUT - Strong Yen is good BUT Brexit is bad news.
...the U.K.’s decision could also bring a halt to the economic recovery that had been underway,”

I understand his statement as if he thinks that Syria/Iraq crisis + Immigration crisis + Brexit crisis leads to instability which will "bring a halt to the economic recovery that had been underway". I am not sure if he is referring to the recovery from worldwide recession or Japans recovery from earthquake caused stagnation being halted by investors fear of another 2008.

Will Canon go bankrupt if WW3 starts the day they release Canons first affordable 4K camera?  ;D

: : :


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 25, 2016)

C-A430 said:


> I am interpreting Fujio Mitarais statement quite differently than most of participants in this topic.
> 
> In first part it sounds like he considers strong Yen a good thing, at least for Japan if not for Canon inc.
> “In Japan, while we can expect to see a temporary surge in the value of the yen,
> ...



A strong currency value hurts companies that export products for most of their income (Canon). They must raise prices which lowers sales and profits. On the other hand, a strong currency lowers prices of imported goods.

That's why Cameras currently cost less in the USA, and the uncertainty as to what will happen for the cost of imported goods and materials in Europe. Its that uncertainty (Fear and Greed) that is affecting currency values. Oil and Gas prices could rise, a huge concern!

Currency values are a two edged sword, helping some while hurting others. Generally, trade flows more smoothly when currencies are stable.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 25, 2016)

So many thoughts...

I am a bit dismayed by these sentiments:



slclick said:


> This thread has zero chance to stay civil. Lock it and get back to sensor debates, DR and other double plus good topics.





davidmurray said:


> It's a political thread and the whole thing should be deleted, and the OP warned for posting something that infringes the usage terms for this forum.





Don Haines said:


> There is no place for religion or politics in online debates.... Neither will lead to any resolution and will cause flame wars and hurt feelings all round....





setterguy said:


> Sorry this site has lowered itself to be about politics versus the science and art of capturing our world. I do not think we should allow this forum to be a vent for politics.



First, the prediction that the discussion had "zero chance to stay civil" has proven to be incorrect. This is one of the most civil and reasonable threads I've seen in a long time. 

I understand that it deals with an uncomfortable topic for some people. But, if we go about avoiding uncomfortable, but critically important, topics, we are all lost. 

As I said previously, I think this whole issue serves as a valuable reminder to all of us that we are the exceptions in the world. We can afford to debate ridiculously insignificant things day in and day out as though they are important, while many of are neighbors struggle to pay for basic necessities, much less cameras and lenses that cost thousands.

There appear to be massive, fundamental challenges facing the world's developed economies over the rational and equitable distribution of wealth. In the U.S. that is having a profound impact on politics from both the left and the right. I seen nothing wrong or threatening about discussing these things in rational terms. 

And, so far, this thread has been rational and respectful.


Now, back to the discussion:



C-A430 said:


> I am interpreting Fujio Mitarais statement quite differently than most of participants in this topic.
> 
> In first part it sounds like he considers strong Yen a good thing, at least for Japan if not for Canon inc.
> “In Japan, while we can expect to see a temporary surge in the value of the yen,
> ...



This is what I think he is saying:

A "temporary surge in the value of the yen" would be good for Japanese consumers because they can consume more imported products at less cost. Don't forget that Japan is highly dependent on imports for many products, including a lot of necessities. I believe they import much of their food, for example.

But I think he also is issuing a cautionary statement, pointing out that just as a strong Yen can temporarily help the economy by spurring consumers to buy, a strong Yen over time will hurt home grown companies, of which Canon is one, thus "the U.K.'s decision could also bring a halt to the economic recovery that had been underway..."

Japanese manufacturers, like Canon, Sony, Nikon, etc., can be hurt by a strong Yen that increases the price of their products abroad and cuts into profits. Companies like Canon must make difficult decisions in the face of falling currencies abroad. In effect, the real price of a 1DX just dropped by about 10% in England and Europe as the Pound and Euro drop in value. It's not any cheaper to consumers, but the amount of real value returned to Canon is now less than it was a few days ago.

I think he is worried about the cumulative effect and what that will mean for the world economy.

Of course, as others have pointed out, volatility is the enemy of business. Investors don't want to risk putting money into a volatile market and retreat to safer investments. That in turn reduces the cash available for businesses to invest in the the equipment, research and development they need for new and improved products. With less cash available, Canon will find it harder to bring that new 6D II to market that people are demanding on this forum. 

Thus, his fears that the fragile (many would say anemic) economic recovery of the past six to eight years could be derailed as companies lose access to capital they need.

Just some thoughts.


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## rfdesigner (Jun 25, 2016)

scrup said:


> I though GB was a strong nation that could influence. If they could not influence the EU to change their ways what say do they have in the wider world.
> 
> Maybe they got rid of the shackles, but at what cost to the country. They took the easy way out and IMO didn't really think it through.
> 
> Cameras are luxury items, fluctuations don't hurt the general public, they don't depend on it like oil. Canon will lose profit but they should have already planned for currency changes.



I remember Richard Branson being quite brutal about companies moaning about currency variations. His point was that businesses should work to be neutral to currancy movements by endeavoring to buy and sell roughly equal amounts of goods and services in each currancy. No one is capable of achieving exact parity, but his point was that there are plenty of companies that rely on a particular currency disparity to survive and if that vanishes then they are *******.


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## IglooEater (Jun 25, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> scrup said:
> 
> 
> > I though GB was a strong nation that could influence. If they could not influence the EU to change their ways what say do they have in the wider world.
> ...



So canon is now officially *******. I think that's the first time we've heard that around here... ;P


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 25, 2016)

unfocused said:


> In effect, the real price of a 1DX just dropped by about 10% in England and Europe as the Pound and Euro drop in value. It's not any cheaper to consumers...



Well, no cheaper for 'local' consumers. But for those in nearby countries, who's currencies are getting relatively stronger, products are getting cheaper. Colleagues of mine in Switzerland already routinely cross the border to shop in Germany and France...in fact, they complain about traffic and crowds on weekends – I expect that will get worse. When the Canadian dollar is much weaker than the US dollar, it's cheaper to buy Canon gear from Canadian sellers (and CPW's street price deals ship from north of the border).


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## unfocused (Jun 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > In effect, the real price of a 1DX just dropped by about 10% in England and Europe as the Pound and Euro drop in value. It's not any cheaper to consumers...
> ...



Good point. I hadn't thought about that. I imagine the retailers in Switzerland have a difficult time competing under those circumstances.


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## unfocused (Jun 25, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > I remember Richard Branson being quite brutal about companies moaning about currency variations. His point was that businesses should work to be neutral to currancy movements by endeavoring to buy and sell roughly equal amounts of goods and services in each currancy. No one is capable of achieving exact parity, but his point was that there are plenty of companies that rely on a particular currency disparity to survive and if that vanishes then they are *******.
> ...



No one is suggesting that. However, it's much easier for Branson to preach that sort of thing given how diverse his holdings are and the fact that he's more of a reseller of goods and services than a manufacturer. Might be a bit tougher for a specialty manufacturer like Canon or Nikon to follow that advice, since it isn't as though they can just secure their components from the local hardware store.


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## TAF (Jun 26, 2016)

C-A430 said:


> I am interpreting Fujio Mitarais statement quite differently than most of participants in this topic.
> 
> In first part it sounds like he considers strong Yen a good thing, at least for Japan if not for Canon inc.
> “In Japan, while we can expect to see a temporary surge in the value of the yen,
> ...



Let me offer another possibility that might concern him, but which he cannot publicly admit to.

In the world of 'globalization', a CEO is expected to move his production where he can get the cheapest labor, and thus maximize profit. Canon has minimized doing this on all but their cheapest gear (China) and maintained their 'Made in Japan' cache because it allowed them to ensure the highest possible quality. He can say with all honesty that keeping production in Japan is better for the company because quality has value in its own right (lots of other companies have forgotten this, to they ultimate undoing).

The fact that the Japanese and Chinese don't really like each other isn't spoken of, because it need not be - there is a better reason (read: excuse) available.

If either the Pound or Euro (or both) take a nosedive and stay down, not only will it be more difficult to sell in those countries due to the unfavorable exchange rate, it will become likely that there will be a push to move some production there due to the (now) lower costs, and the marketing advantage local production provides.

Yet I suspect he probably isn't going to want to do this, but the quality excuse doesn't fly. Both the UK and Europe have highly skilled optics and micro-technical industries. If they became cost competitive, it would make good business sense to make things there. So how does he handle that?

Worst of all, they (the UK and Europe) will also become competitors (again). Imagine a resurgent Rolleiflex...

That's probably what really has him worried. Japan hasn't had a competitor in the camera arena in decades. That may change here soon.

Exciting times.


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## YuengLinger (Jun 26, 2016)

Canon makes more than lens caps outside of Japan.

http://www.canon-asia.com/personal/web/company/about

Fujio Mitarai might simply have been saying what he thought his upset EU friends wanted to hear. Some see such statements as politeness in a time of stress.


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## IglooEater (Jun 26, 2016)

unfocused said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > rfdesigner said:
> ...



Actually a lot of people are suggesting that, (though not because of brexit) and I inserted that to laugh at them. Sorry, I was just getting a bit silly there, I do agree with you though.


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## Ozarker (Jun 26, 2016)

PhotographyFirst said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > [rant]
> ...



Of course, The United States gvt. doesn't manufacture consumer electronics. Chine nor Japan will never pay for the tariffs on their products being imported into the U.S. The American consumer will absorb all those costs. All of those costs.

Pulling the trade war lever with China would be economic suicide. There would be no products on our shelves and there are no mothballed flat screen television factories just waiting to be turned on.

Some will say that will be China's suicide too. Not so. China couldn't care less about a starving population. They'll simply hold the products until we've learned out lesson.


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## unfocused (Jun 26, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



Actually, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to pick on you and your comment, which I knew was in jest.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 26, 2016)

TAF said:


> If either the Pound or Euro (or both) take a nosedive and stay down, not only will it be more difficult to sell in those countries due to the unfavorable exchange rate, it will become likely that there will be a push to move some production there due to the (now) lower costs, and the marketing advantage local production provides...
> 
> ...If they became cost competitive, it would make good business sense to make things there. So how does he handle that?...
> 
> ...



That all seems unlikely. The Euro and Pound have taken a hit because of panic by investors, not because of underlying permanent weaknesses. Given the time and investment required for new manufacturing facilities, I doubt if Canon would risk sinking that kind of money into facilities when any exchange rate advantage could evaporate at any time. Likewise, I don't see competitors rising up to take on the Japanese market due to the same transitory nature of the current economic fallout, particularly because the DSLR market is shrinking anyway.


----------



## neonlight (Jun 26, 2016)

Now the pound has dropped and the yen might go up, I'm going to have to save longer for my next lens!


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## Ladislav (Jun 26, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> This vote went the way it did because we the people have been largely ignored for a long time by an elite who "knows better".
> 
> We were fed lines like "UK will be at the back of the queue for USA trade deal if we leave".
> 
> ...



Time to join political discussion - sorry folks but I can't help myself.

@rfdesigner - respect. Very well written post and probably a type of information people were supposed to get from both camps. 


I'm EU citizen (Czech) living in UK for past 3 years. I came to UK because US technology company offered me a job here so I simply decided to have a bit of adventure with no risks as it was within EU and still close to home. I never considered this a permanent relocation. It is just a new experience and than I will move back. 

I don't claim any benefits, I'm even not eligible. I don't have children yet so I don't put pressure on local schools. When I or my wife need health care treatment and it is not urgent we actually travel back to Czech republic (always for dentist) as British healthcare totally failed our expectations. IMHO NHS stands most probably for No Healthcare System. On the other hand I give tens of thousands pounds per year on my taxes to British treasury. 

A lot of what I heard during campaign was offensive to people like me. Before the campaign I felt like foreigner working in another EU country but after what was said in past few months I sometimes feel like and unwanted immigrant (in the worst meaning) and burden for UK economy.

I'm caught of guard by the Brexit vote result. Not because I don't respect the result, democracy or British people or because I'm very fond of EU but because I don't like uncertainty. Right now I feel a lot of uncertainty in my life and the uncertainty is not related only to my stay in UK but also to the future of EU affecting Czech republic as well. Any business in general feels this uncertainty - that is why Canon CEO said that. 


Let me ask you a question:

A lot was said about influx of EU citizens coming to UK but when the real number are put on the table, is it really so bad?
- UK population: 65M
- EU citizens: 3.3M
- UK expats in EU: 1.2M

That makes net influx of EU people to UK 2.1M - some 3.2% of the population. Consider all the claims of the EU immigration impact on social and health system, schools, housing and even transport. Now tell me - do you really think that 3% increase in population (slowly growing over many years) is really what put the pressure on all public services? Isn't this just hiding incompetency of many people in charge behind an external factor which is easy to blame?

Off course there is a question about how to slow down the influx of EU people to already overcrowded country but what about non-EU migrants? Why is EU migration blamed so much when UK government is not able to control even non-EU migration where they have all the tools available?

I'm also pretty interested how will Brexiters work on all those trade deals they promised. A simple example: 
A lot was said about pursuing trade deal with China which would benefit British economy. I know nothing about trade deals but it seems to me that in discussion of such a deal China would be superior to make demands before it even happens. In my opinion free trade with China would make issues with cheap China's steel crushing British steel industry (Port Talbot) look really minor. 

Anyway it will be very interesting to see how this ends up and what deal will Britons get at the end - mean how far it will be from what was promised during populist campaign. I made few friends here and I wish you guys all the best in this leap of faith.


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## greger (Jun 26, 2016)

Brexit is a topic that most people are interested in. For someone to complain about a forum post started by the administrator is funny to me. Being not fully informed about a subject may have contributed to an exit vote by the people of Britain. How can they have a revote because people think they made a mistake? How this plays out is of great interest to me.


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## Valvebounce (Jun 26, 2016)

Hi Gregor. 
Reference re vote or not, I don't know. 
What I do know is when you hear an interview on the radio where the interviewee says _*something like*_ 'I was going to vote but it was such a lovely day I went to the beach instead thinking it would all be alright' it shows the level of intellect and the importance attached to probably the most important vote since voting to join the EEC (European Economic Comunity). 
Regarding Europe, when it was the EEC, it was a good thing, if this is what we still had I believe we wouldn't have even wanted a Referendum on in or out, the problems started when it started working towards the United States of Europe too much control by over paid out of touch idiots bureaucrats. 
Some will say it just evolved that way, I ask if it needed to evolve beyond its original purpose, or if it was because people could claim a salary and horrendous expenses and a title. 
An opinion and we know what that is worth! 

Cheers, Graham. 



greger said:


> Brexit is a topic that most people are interested in. For someone to complain about a forum post started by the administrator is funny to me. Being not fully informed about a subject may have contributed to an exit vote by the people of Britain. How can they have a revote because people think they made a mistake? How this plays out is of great interest to me.


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## Ozarker (Jun 26, 2016)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Gregor.
> Reference re vote or not, I don't know.
> What I do know is when you hear an interview on the radio where the interviewee says _*something like*_ 'I was going to vote but it was such a lovely day I went to the beach instead thinking it would all be alright' it shows the level of intellect and the importance attached to probably the most important vote since voting to join the EEC (European Economic Comunity).
> Regarding Europe, when it was the EEC, it was a good thing, if this is what we still had I believe we wouldn't have even wanted a Referendum on in or out, the problems started when it started working towards the United States of Europe too much control by over paid out of touch idiots bureaucrats.
> ...


It always seems that the "best intentioned" ideas by the government elite turn out to be a way of incrementally tightening the noose of control over the unwashed masses. 
Now it seems every single time I go to the doctor I'm asked, "Do you smoke?" "No" "Not ever in your life?" "No." "Not even one cigarette?" "NO!" 

"Do you drink alcohol?" "No." "Not ever?" "Well, I had 5 beers when I was in the Army 30 years ago." Doctor says, " Okay, past social drinker." "No! I tried beer and didn't like it, so never drank again."

Now every doc has a record od this and is able to get a list of my medications from the pharmacies. 

I don't trust government with so much personal information. I don't trust huge bureaucracies like the EU, UN, or the US government at all. 

Hooray for Brexit!

Bureaucrats have no business prying into our personal lives. Leave us alone to be free.

The "programs" are never what they are cracked up to be. If one cannot afford the service and don't pay into it... you can gain access to the service. If one can afford the service and actually pays into it... access is denied.


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## Kristofgss (Jun 26, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't trust government with so much personal information. I don't trust huge bureaucracies like the EU, UN, or the US government at all.


When cellphones came out people were paranoid about the governement being able to track their location. 20 years later you expect your iphone to show you where you are and how traffic is going on your way home, you get a gps in your camera to do location tagging, google targets the ads to your surfing habits, every retail store keeps track of what you buy with a card you get for discounts and (at least where i live) automatic license plate readers check every vehicle coming in and out of the city. Leaving the EU is not going to make big data disappear.

Though on a very sellfish note, I really really hope that we're not going to start having customs inspections and import tariffs on goods bought from the UK again. That used to be such a pain in the xxx when you bought something from there in the distant past. Now, I buy whatever I can't find locally from there and have it delivered a few days later to my doorstep.

I do wonder what the long-term effect will be though. Will they be getting new trade agreements so basically everything stays the same economically as it is now (they always kept their own currency, which makes for some very cheap deals today on amazon ;D), but with more restrictions on immigration and make their own policies and rules? And on the other hand, one thing which I still havent figured out as EU citizen is what they expect to change now. They already drove on the other side of the road, they kept their own currency, they still use imperial units for height, speed and liquids, they have their own standard of wall outlets. I can't imagine why you want to have even less common standards.


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## slclick (Jun 26, 2016)

I really hope this doesn't affect R&D on the new EF-S 18-55 2.8-4.5 IS STM Mk4


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## scyrene (Jun 27, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > Incredibly good move for Britain.
> ...



The outcome was not known at all. That this is political and essentially outside this forum's remit, I agree.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2016)

scyrene said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > Also agreed - this is an off topic thread for this non-political forum and the initial post and entire thread should be removed due to its political nature.
> ...



Forum name: "Canon Rumors"

Topic title: "*Canon CEO* Very Dismayed by Brexit, *Could* Halt Japan Recovery"

Seems quite topical to me.


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## AvTvM (Jun 27, 2016)

GuyF said:


> Well this is what happens when you don't supply a printed manual with your flagship camera in the UK and charge £5200 for the privilage.
> 
> On a more serious note, what's all the bloody panic? It's only a shock if you haven't been following European politics. The notion that the world will fall apart just because one nation doesn't want to be part of a club? :
> 
> ...



+100 !

CEO of stupid Canon company should rather focus on offering products that are fully competitive and offer good price/value. Hot air just won't cut it ... that is politician's terrain.


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## Ozarker (Jun 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> GuyF said:
> 
> 
> > Well this is what happens when you don't supply a printed manual with your flagship camera in the UK and charge £5200 for the privilage.
> ...



Poor AvTvM: The only person I've seen on a board who could be given $1,000,000,000 and then complain about the paper cut he just gave himself... or the stupid Bureau of Engraving slapping out $100 bills.


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 27, 2016)

Kristofgss said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't trust government with so much personal information. I don't trust huge bureaucracies like the EU, UN, or the US government at all.
> ...


----------



## AvTvM (Jun 27, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> ...
> Poor AvTvM: The only person I've seen on a board who could be given $1,000,000,000 and then complain about the paper cut he just gave himself... or the stupid Bureau of Engraving slapping out $100 bills.



The way things are going, I might be complaining if I were offered 1 Million Pounds instead of 1 Million Euros ...


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## rcarca (Jun 27, 2016)

The simple fact of the matter is that Brexit will reverb around the world for years to come: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/post-brexit-world-risk-work-in-progress-richard-anderson?trk=pulse_spock-articles

Companies had better get their act together. Looks like Mr Canon understands that. Good for him!


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## chauncey (Jun 27, 2016)

Perhaps Fujio Mitarai might first ask himself why did Brexit occur
The EU's open border policy, with associated terrorism, is what drove the Brits away.
Economics wasn't even in the equation. Japan's closed door immigration policy has kept it safe.


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## rcarca (Jun 27, 2016)

chauncey said:


> Perhaps Fujio Mitarai might first ask himself why did Brexit occur
> The EU's open border policy, with associated terrorism, is what drove the Brits away.
> Economics wasn't even in the equation. Japan's closed door immigration policy has kept it safe.



Absolute balderdash, if I may say so! What drove us out was lies by the Brexiteers on immigration, the availability of funds after we stop paying the EU and assorted other jingoistic dog-whistles, all of which are now being walked back. Terrorism did not even play a marginal part in the debate...


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## rfdesigner (Jun 27, 2016)

Ladislav said:


> Time to join political discussion - sorry folks but I can't help myself.
> 
> @rfdesigner - respect. Very well written post and probably a type of information people were supposed to get from both camps.
> 
> ...



I think your experience of the NHS is most unfortunate, in my experiece it has been pretty good, but local problems do make certain areas less than desirable, I suspect that is the same the world over. Life expectancy in the UK is higher (just) than the US, and it wouldn't be if the NHS was really all that bad, I would argue if you are seriously ill the HNS can be great, if you've just got a tooth ache then no it isn't terribly good.

Pressure of numbers: 2M in 65M doesn't sound like that much.. problem is the rate of those incomming, which is about 150% of the natural growth. Property prices don't reflect the overall pressure, but that at the margins, i.e. not the pressure of putting 65million people into homes for 63 million, but putting say 4 million people who need new homes now into homes for 2 million. Also note, the majority of migrants are of an age between leaving full time education and beginning a family.. so your 2M extra are primarily in one very small age group, one that given a few years is requiring school places, this is where the pressure on school places for my youngest is comming from (substantially bigger classes, much fewer school choices), my eldest two being that much older are unaffected.

I never claimed (unlike some politicians who I am less than keen on) that the NHS was the way it was because of immigration, the primary reasons for NHS problems are: bureaucracy of the NHS, aging populaiton, people taking it for granted (my sister in law works for the NHS and the number of missed apointments is criminal).. it could also do with more funding.. but that has always been true.

Non-EU migration can also be a problem for some areas, the EU is slightly to blame for that as it can provide back doors (though I forget the exact mechanism), but the UK governemnt is also to blame. Point is once we're out the governing party can no longer blame the EU for half the countries ills, it will be their fault through and through which will make it easier to hold the slimy toe rags to account.

Now I voted not on where the UK is right now but on the trend from past to potential future if nothing changes, and I look at my kids and realised their chances are being eroded every year.. so hence I voted the way I did.

Trade Deals.. This is going to be a problem, equally it isn't as big a problem as is usually incinuated. Too many people run around saying "there's no trade deal" like you need a trade deal to be able to trade at all, trading without one isn't as good, but you usually can trade. Of course we will need to rebuild our diplomatic core competancies after they were destroyed when we joined the EU.. so it's not a quick fix, but my timeframe extends beyond the middle of next week, I voted on my childrens and my grand childrens future.

I also wish you the very best, under an "australian based points system" (to quote a phrase) I'm sure you'd still get in.


----------



## scrup (Jun 27, 2016)

I think Canon should of had a Brexit sale before the vote. 

"Get your 1DXii at the current price. It will cost 10% more next week if you leave the EU."

Now replace "Canon" with a the most popular lager in the UK "Carling" and the vote may have gone the other way.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 28, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > davidmurray said:
> ...



:


----------



## Untitled (Jun 29, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> ...... Of course we will need to rebuild our diplomatic core competancies after they were destroyed when we joined the EU.. so it's not a quick fix, but my timeframe extends beyond the middle of next week, I voted on my childrens and my grand childrens future.
> 
> I also wish you the very best, under an "australian based points system" (to quote a phrase) I'm sure you'd still get in.



All that would have been privatised by now. I'm sure there are plenty of companies offering precisely those kinds services, clamouring right now to get their cv's on the table. I wonder how much they'll be able to charge.

As to your grandchildrens future. Not sure voting away their right to work, visa free travel and access to public services in almost 30 countries, will be helpfull to their prospects moving forward. Everyone might seem to want to come to Britain now, it isn't necessarily always going to be that way. Besides, young people now interact with their peers in other countries in very different, very immediate ways that were not possible 25, 30 years ago. In areas where there is a real dearth of quality, meaningful work. The young will have to get a whole lot more creative in the way they make their way in the world. The internet has connected everyone, rowing back time by putting up barriers to movement is a Canute-esque bottleneck to collaboration.


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## josephandrews222 (Jun 29, 2016)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/brexit-unleashes-chaos-among-global-currencies/2016/06/28/82323c2e-3c8f-11e6-84e8-1580c7db5275_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_rainbow

A rather balanced article, I think.

Quite informative.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jun 29, 2016)

josephandrews222 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/brexit-unleashes-chaos-among-global-currencies/2016/06/28/82323c2e-3c8f-11e6-84e8-1580c7db5275_story.html?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_rainbow
> 
> A rather balanced article, I think.
> 
> Quite informative.


The only problem with this article is that it only looks at Britain's decision to leave the EU from a financial perspective. However the most negative impact of this bizarre decision is going to be on our cultural life. Sharing ideas, knowledge, beliefs and values benefits us all and I am horrified that a new barrier has been created that will impede that cultural exchange. Europe is such a diverse and culturally rich community and we in Britain are now going to be poorer in every sense of the word.


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## chauncey (Jun 29, 2016)

> The only problem with this article is that it only looks at Britain's decision to leave the EU from a financial perspective. However the most negative impact of this bizarre decision is going to be on our cultural life. Sharing ideas, knowledge, beliefs and values benefits us all and I am horrified that a new barrier has been created that will impede that cultural exchange. Europe is such a diverse and culturally rich community and we in Britain are now going to be poorer in every sense of the word.


Alas, wisdom from a child


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## rfdesigner (Jun 29, 2016)

Untitled said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > ...... Of course we will need to rebuild our diplomatic core competancies after they were destroyed when we joined the EU.. so it's not a quick fix, but my timeframe extends beyond the middle of next week, I voted on my childrens and my grand childrens future.
> ...



The problem is, you assume my children are highly successful top of the class types.. much as I love and adore them this is not the case.. unfettered migration is great for the winners but rather less so for the losers.

Anyway I don't want to end all migration, we should still have substantial migration, just in managable and balanced numbers. Currently over 200k people leave each year and over half a million come in, that is not substainable in a finite island, and as far as I'm concerned it's the difference that's the problem, if it were half a million each way there would much less of an issue.

Also I don't see why we should be preventing well educated people from elsewhere in the world, particually the commonwealth, but instead allow anyone and everyone in from europe, I want a level playing field.

As always with these discussions people focus on the migration. For me that's only a third of the problem, the other two thirds are the costs (including the horrific trade deficit) and the inability to control our own laws.

Agreements with europe are great, being ruled by the EU isn't, especially when I believe they are going in precisely the wrong direction on many issues.. hence their economy is in such a mess.


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## rcarca (Jun 29, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> Anyway I don't want to end all migration, we should still have substantial migration, just in managable and balanced numbers. Currently over 200k people leave each year and over half a million come in, that is not substainable in a finite island, and as far as I'm concerned it's the difference that's the problem, if it were half a million each way there would much less of an issue.
> 
> Also I don't see why we should be preventing well educated people from elsewhere in the world, particually the commonwealth, but instead allow anyone and everyone in from europe, I want a level playing field.



I think the figures are 180,000 from the EU last year, and 184,000 from outside the EU. So I rather suspect we are letting people in from the Commonwealth. Never has been 500,000 coming in!


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## rfdesigner (Jun 29, 2016)

rcarca said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway I don't want to end all migration, we should still have substantial migration, just in managable and balanced numbers. Currently over 200k people leave each year and over half a million come in, that is not substainable in a finite island, and as far as I'm concerned it's the difference that's the problem, if it were half a million each way there would much less of an issue.
> ...



http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

the 188/180 is net, it's about 270/270 gross, half a million total... so we both need correcting


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## rcarca (Jun 29, 2016)

rcarca said:


> the 188/180 is net, it's about 270/270 gross, half a million total... so we both need correcting



Fair enough!


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## GuyF (Jun 29, 2016)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Sharing ideas, knowledge, beliefs and values benefits us all and I am horrified that a new barrier has been created that will impede that cultural exchange.



Really? 

Last time I checked, the UK was still in the same patch of bleak north-east atlantic. We haven't left the planet (even if some politicians have). We can still visit other nations and exchange ideas. I've witnessed people from around the globe, on this very forum, communicating and exchanging ideas. And, sadly at times, in a civil manner too.


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## cayenne (Jun 29, 2016)

One thing I saw on the news that really bothered me...<P>
One girl protester, was holding up a sign saying "I'm not British, I'm European".<P>
Wow...just.....wow....


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## Murdy (Jul 5, 2016)

j-nord said:


> Incredibly good move for Britain.



No, it's insane. Stick with Canadian politics, as you don't know what you're talking about.


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## Kristofgss (Jul 5, 2016)

GuyF said:


> Last time I checked, the UK was still in the same patch of bleak north-east atlantic. We haven't left the planet (even if some politicians have).


Not according to the Dr Who episode I saw, they just want you to think you are still on a planet. In reality, you're on the back of a space-whale ;D


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## GuyF (Jul 5, 2016)

Kristofgss said:


> Not according to the Dr Who episode I saw, they just want you to think you are still on a planet. In reality, you're on the back of a space-whale ;D



Dr. Who is *not* a documentary (unlike Star Wars Episode IV).


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## Ozarker (Jul 7, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


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