# 1Ds Mark IV & 3 Lenses in August?



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 28, 2011)

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<strong>1Ds Mark IV before 5D Mark III?

</strong>Weâ€™re told August will be a major announcement month. The 1Ds Mark III replacement and 3 lenses will be announced. No detail into what lenses.</p>
<p>5D Mark III to follow soon after according to a few folks.</p>
<p>It probably wonâ€™t be until July when we started getting solid stuff with specs and a clearer picture of whatâ€™s coming down the immediate pipeline.</p>
<p><strong>7D replacement?

</strong>Not until well into 2012 at the earliest. You can buy it, itâ€™s a great camera.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong>
```


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## Canon 14-24 (May 28, 2011)

August - 1dm4 w/ new 24-70 2.8, 50 1.4 II, 14-24 2.8 or 35 1.4 II lens
Mid-September - 5d3 / 3D w/ new 24-120 f4 IS or 24-105 f4 II lens


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## macfly (May 28, 2011)

Is there any fact behind this, it doesnt even get a CR rating?


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## zerotiu (May 28, 2011)

hmm.. I prefer 5d3 1st ;D :


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## Stone (May 28, 2011)

Yeah, because the 1st major pro/semi-pro announcement since Oct. 2009 should be a camera that a very, very tiny fraction of your customer base can afford. People are just not gonna pony up $8k to buy it, pro or otherwise. Sorry, but the 1Ds just isn't on the radar for very many people, just a list of specs to gawk at while we continue to wait impatiently for the new 5D. Makes alot of sense to me...


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## x-vision (May 28, 2011)

Well, August/September is the usual timeframe when Canon announces new products. 

First in line for announcement is the 1DV. 

Of course the 1DV will be full-frame and come with more than 21mp, so I guess it could be considered a 1DsIII successor as well - in addition to being a 1DIV successor, that is.


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## x-vision (May 28, 2011)

Btw, Canon needs a strong holiday-season seller, so it's very likely that the 7DII will actually be announced in August/September together with the 1DV. 

The rumors that the 7DII will come in 2012 are CR0.


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## UncleFester (May 28, 2011)

I agree with Stone on the 1Ds not being on "radar" for most people. 7k is a lot of money for a cam that shares the same sensor as the 5DII. 

I'd rather diversify and get an M9 or another tele.

The 7D, I'm sure it's great camera but suffers in IQ compared to the 5D. Esp in low light. Again, another lens is probably a better value.


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## dgsphto (May 28, 2011)

I THINK: 

Future canon line-up:

1ds series : Full frame pro. Either Dual processors and/or a faster buffer management system.

3d Series : Replaces 1d series. Will either sport a FF or the 1.6 crop sensor. If FF, MP will be less than 1ds while everything (AF, Video) will match 1ds. Chances are it will be 1.6 crop in pro sports body! Dual processors. FPS will be higher than 1ds.

5d series: Prosumer. Will be a FF sensor from the 1ds lineup but with reduced MP. If the 3d is a FF, then the 5d Series could share that exact same sensor. Prosumer body with trimmed features from 1ds. Dual processors if video is top notch else just one processor. Trimmed down AF.

7d series: Prosumer versions of 3d series with a 1.6 crop. Rest of the features will match 5d series except for FPS and dual processors.

consumer series: 60d likes.


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## ronderick (May 28, 2011)

If the 1DsIV announcement does take place in August, it should be interesting to see what the specs are for the new flagship model. Perhaps the rumored DIGI V and even stronger ISO performance? 

If nothing else, this will give the public a better picture of what to expect for the 5D3...


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## dgsphto (May 28, 2011)

Edit: I THINK: 

The announcement is a 1ds4 camera followed by 5d3 in September.

A 1d4 replacement early next year to be replaced by 3d. The 7d gets an upgrade next summer.

BTW, if Nikon comes out with a D700 successor announcement earlier (say in June this year), Canon will announce both the 1ds4 and the 5d3 at the same time. This time they specced these right so that they are further apart than closer. 

(As seen in my crystal ball! 8) )


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## Flake (May 28, 2011)

IDs MkIV and 3 lenses announced August - Delivered to retailers sometime in late 2012? After several embarrasing false starts promises broken and a few delay announcements!


Never mind new announcements we cannot trust a company to deliver product when it hasn't even managed to deliver the products it announced last year!


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## dgsphto (May 28, 2011)

Flake said:


> Never mind new announcements we cannot trust a company to deliver product when it hasn't even managed to deliver the products it announced last year!



The reason it was not announced earlier is because Canon needed time to get the plan for retooling done so that it aligns optimally with the execution of their business continuity plan after the disaster. It does not make sense to retool and resource from other vendors parts for models that will be phased out anyways. 

Once they have an assurance that their retooling/sourcing plan for the new models is concrete and supply chain plan is in place, an announcement is imminent. 

It will be 1 in late July/early August and the other one in September. Both of these could get pulled in to July if Nikon makes certain moves with their D700 replacement.


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## dgsphto (May 28, 2011)

BTW, the 1ds4 is drool worthy than ever before! Nothing will touch this for a couple of years to come. The only spec that might give this the jitters is when Sony comes up with a 3D still camera. 8)


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## liberace (May 28, 2011)

I can't honestly see Canon releasing a product called '3D' because of it's obvious link to the other '3D.' Unless of course it is a 3D Camera, but I can't honestly see that happening either.


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## UncleFester (May 28, 2011)

I've got a %100 reliable source that told me Nikon is having real bad time s/p tsunami. So much so that a couple of new items (not revealed) that they had planned on releasing have either scrapped or going on longer than expected delay.

Someone mentioned in another thread that Canon and Nikon tend to wait for each other.


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## motorhead (May 28, 2011)

I'd like to believe common sense will rule when the 1Ds mk4 _*finally*_ becomes a reality. I would normally wait until full independent tests are made public and others have exposed the various gremlins.

However I have been holding my breath for so long now that my good intentions might be difficult to live up to. As always, everything depends on the camera specs.


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## J. McCabe (May 28, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> Weâ€™re told August will be a major announcement month. The 1Ds Mark III replacement and 3 lenses will be announced. No detail into what lenses.



Possibly includes the 300mm & 400mm primes already rumoured to be announced on late August ?


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## macfly (May 28, 2011)

DGS, you seem to be very certain of this, yet board admin won't even give this rumor a reliablity rating. Can you divulge a bit more, how do you know this is not just more of the same wishful thinking?

Stone, don't know what you're thinking with your comment "People are just not gonna pony up $8k to buy it, pro or otherwise." I make my living on 1Ds cameras, and have $12k ready to go as soon as it is real. With the 100% tax rebates on working equipment this year I think you'll find Canon USA at least will be very motivated to get a lot of these units into the hands of those of us who make our living using them, and are hungry for the next step in the digital revolution.

Canon, get a move on, we're a year or more late at this point!


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## motorhead (May 28, 2011)

macfly,

I agree. the money is not a killer issue, or at least not as big an issue as some might think. Yes, the camera needs to deliver, but provided it comes with the rumoured improved DR and 40 MP I will be splashing out.

Professionals need the camera and are able to make a solid business case, while amateurs have never worried about the cost of whatever hobby they pursue. As a sailing instructor I know how much boats cost, trust me its frightening at the top level, photography is cheap in comparison.


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## Stone (May 28, 2011)

macfly & motorhead,

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you guys. While I'm sure there are alot of pros waiting for the 1Ds, I think at best, you make up less than 3-5% of Canon's customer base worldwide, I'll humbly apologize to you both if I'm proven wrong. I'm not discounting your need for such a body, my rant was simply that a far larger number of pros/semi-pros and amateurs are waiting for and ready to buy an updated 5 series body either as a replacement for aging equipment, exploration of DSLR video or crop shooters moving up to their 1st FF body.

I've made very little money with my photography, I consider it as a hobby that occasionally pays for itself, and my day job allows me to buy pretty nice gear up to and including a new 1Ds. I say it's not on the radar because It doesn't register as a value compared to a 5D or 1D4 depending on what one likes to shoot.

Ken


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## macfly (May 29, 2011)

Stone, Canon needs to supply 'us' because if they didn't then we'd be using Nikon, Sony or maybe Leica. Canon wants the cache of being the pro choice even though we may not be the largest market segment. By our patronage we prove Canon is THE brand, the one that everyone else should desire.

I can't tell you how many of my shoots these days have B-roll crews, filming me working for such and such magazine/product/advertiser website, so a lot of people get to see what is in my hands. Beyond that I seriously get asked 'What camera should I/my wife/son/daughter/granny get?' ten times a week, and I always say Canon. I think I alone have sold a thousand of thier cameras, and the same is likely true for every other pro. We are more than the icing on the cake, we are Canons proof of excellence. 

If Nikon bring out the D4 and it betters what Canon have on the market I'll switch in a heartbeat because I'll have to. I can't make excuses for my gear, I have to have the best equipment, and if I don't my clients will not remain clients for long. The onus is on Canon to stay ahead, and by leaving us out in the cold for much longer they risk loosing their pinnacle spot in the very important Pro FF SLR market.

How would you feel when you go to a game, an event or whatever, and all the pros are shooting Nikon because it is better? You'll start feeling your on the loosing team. Trust me. I know, that is what happened to me when the EOS came out back in 1991. I was all Nikon until the F4 dropped the ball, and Canon grabbed it and made a home run. It took about one year for every camera at the sports events, concerts, fashion shows, you name it, to go from Nikon to Canon. 

We have to have to best, because we can't let our competition have anything better, and trust me, you'll want what we're using, even if you think we don't matter.


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## macfly (May 29, 2011)

PS: Motorhead, I was the only photographer behind the scenes the year Team New Zealand won the Americas Cup in San Diego, so I know a little of boats and money! ;-)


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## jrahadi (May 29, 2011)

*Finally, Hope for $2000 Secondhand 1Ds3 - Re: 1Ds Mark IV & 3 Lenses in August?*

I really hope that 1Ds4 can be released on August 2011, so many pros will dumped their 1Ds3 at $2K range


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## Stone (May 29, 2011)

Stone said:


> macfly said:
> 
> 
> > Stone, Canon needs to supply 'us' because if they didn't then we'd be using Nikon, Sony or maybe Leica. Canon wants the cache of being the pro choice even though we may not be the largest market segment. By our patronage we prove Canon is THE brand, the one that everyone else should desire.
> ...


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## Cannon Man (May 29, 2011)

I agree with macfly and motorhead, the money isn't an issue for pro photographers.. we need the best camera available,
Even if i wasnt shooting full time i would still spend the same amount of money for a camera.

that's why there is a 5D Mark II, because it's more affortable. The 1Ds is a camera without compromises on size, weight, built guality.. those who want/need those features dont care how much money they have to whip out to get it.


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## Flake (May 29, 2011)

I'm not sure that's right. Currently many pro photographers have said why should I pay that much? The feature set isn't worth that much more and as for the shutter life I can afford 3 x 5D MkII for the price of a 1Ds.

With the 5D MkII and the 1Ds MKIII there simply isn't enough between them to justify the higher cost, and Canon will have to do something pretty special to make such a gap again. In the early days of digital more money bought noticeably better images, but that's no longer the case, and I believe that Canon will struggle to make any new camera produce noticeably better images than the current crop, that leaves them with the feature set to differentiate with.

I think these cameras are being bought by companies for staff photographers, or people who had the previous 1Ds and have bought the new one simply because of that. The price is just too close to medium format and they are impressive to show clients!

Of course having a bigger camera than the client is part of the light & magic show impressing them is a big part of that, (probably explains why some still like to shoot film). Any new 1Ds will sell, but not in the quantities the 1Ds MkII did, it is possible that the 1Ds MkIV will be the end of the line, especially if it shares the same sensor with the 5D MkIII and can Canon justify developing a high end FF sensor which will only sell in very low numbers?


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## motorhead (May 29, 2011)

macfly said:


> PS: Motorhead, I was the only photographer behind the scenes the year Team New Zealand won the Americas Cup in San Diego, so I know a little of boats and money! ;-)



macfly,

I'm very jealous. Was that the year that the wing keels were the big talking point, or was that still to come? Now that is an area of the sport where being paranoid is considered normal, what with the spying, court cases and constant intrigues.

Nothing to do with the subject under discussion, but I had planned that this year was my last as a Yachtmaster Instructor (I am 64). Sadly it looks like a serious (and sudden) health issue has taken it from me. Never mind, thats one hobby that turned into a career 15 years ago, maybe the time is right to see where my photography can take me?


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## macfly (May 29, 2011)

Flake, I think you'll find Canon have already learnt that lesson. If all the rumours are correct, the 5D Mkll will be 28mp, the EOS 42, that right there is the difference that the EOS line needs. They won't make the same mistake twice, because using the same sensor almost completely destroyed the 1Ds market.

Motorhead, it was 1995, I have a few pix of it up on my site here - http://macfly.com/speed/nz_index.php - click on the image to go to the next one. Good luck with the health issue, the joy of photography is that everyday it teaches us to have a hungry eye, and satisfying it is still my greatest joy.


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## unruled (May 29, 2011)

I'm intrigued into the justification of the cost of 1series camera's.

Purely from a business/profit point of view. Would a camera with more megapixels and maybe 1-2 stops of more usable high ISO really justify spending 5k+? I'm not saying we wouldn't all want it, but from a business standpoint, would it actually deliver significant ROI? How many months/years to recoup the cost, and then start making those extra bucks with the new camera? the way i see it, that would entail either being able to get more business, or charge more after switching.

I find that hard to imagine, but I'm just a hobbyist. If it does recoup its cost (and deliver more), I would imagine it to be a niche case. I would like to be proven wrong though.


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## motorhead (May 29, 2011)

unruled,

I'm sure if you asked 100 buyers of the 1Ds mk4 after it appears why they spent that sum of money you would get a hundred slightly different answers. Apart from higher MP for smoother images, my own interests lie in the dynamic range and low ISO performance, which must be best in class by some margin. I have no interest in the higher, noisier ISO's already offered on existing bodies and certainly don't need even more.

No, for me its a simple matter of the same, but better. To get this I'm prepared to pay.

But I am not about to stand on a soapbox and say that others are wrong. As I say, we all have different requirements. For example the 1d mk 4 is held up as the pre-eminent sports camera, yet when I am at F1 and MotoGP events I see loads of pro's using the 1Ds mk3. The truth is the 1Ds body is a very flexible tool which is exactly as it should be.


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## macfly (May 30, 2011)

Unruled, in answer to - "Purely from a business/profit point of view. Would a camera with more megapixels and maybe 1-2 stops of more usable high ISO really justify spending 5k+?"

With this years (and maybe next?) years tax incentives for small business to buy equipment of any sort the entire system is a legitimate business write off, so essentially it is free, or at least comes at a susbtantial discount, but beyond that let me put the cost into perspective. On most shoots the rental charge on the lighting package is 5-7k, digitech team 2k, location or studio rental fees & permits 2-5k, assistants, transport etc, ~1.5k. It is rare that a day at work costs my clients less that 15k before fees, so turning up with a prosumer camera just doesn't look right.


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## NXT1000 (May 30, 2011)

i hope it is true, this sound more logical than 5d3 before 1ds3. 
not that i am going to buy 1ds3, just too big for casual shooter. 
also if it is true that it has very high MB. My computer is very fast, yet it does not work as fast as i would for 5d2 files, the computer industry have to improve their computer too. But i see little improvement over last 2 years.


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## liberace (May 30, 2011)

NXT1000 said:


> i hope it is true, this sound more logical than 5d3 before 1ds3.
> not that i am going to buy 1ds3, just too big for casual shooter.
> also if it is true that it has very high MB. My computer is very fast, yet it does not work as fast as i would for 5d2 files, the computer industry have to improve their computer too. But i see little improvement over last 2 years.



Are you running 10,000 rpm HDDs in RAID 0+1? SSDrive for cached files? A well built PC from two years ago can open and process dozens of RAW files, never mind new PCs today.


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## NXT1000 (May 30, 2011)

liberace said:


> Are you running 10,000 rpm HDDs in RAID 0+1? SSDrive for cached files? A well built PC from two years ago can open and process dozens of RAW files, never mind new PCs today.



The CPU speed has not improved by much over 2 years. 
No raid no 10k rpm hdd, i was using ocz summit SSD at first, but found that aperture does not allow the raw file to place in another hd. So, i just use a 7500 rpm HDD now. 

It is not bad, but i am thinking about the next generation of high MB DSLR. 

My system ok for 5d2 now. 

But when it go 40MB more or less, i need a new computer, and a look at the computer site, i think no PC can cope well with file size of that type.


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## macfly (May 30, 2011)

You should be on a Mac, no problems here even with multiple P65 (PhaseOne 65mp back) files in Capture on or Canon files in Photoshop.


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## Admin US West (May 30, 2011)

macfly said:


> You should be on a Mac, no problems here even with multiple P65 (PhaseOne 65mp back) files in Capture on or Canon files in Photoshop.



I'd be willing to tackle those 200mb Hasselblad digital files. Lightroom might choke though.


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## macfly (May 30, 2011)

Never used it, or Apature, all Photoshop all the time, and Preview for editing the low-rez jpgs.


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## motorhead (May 30, 2011)

"Lightroom might choke......"

Considering LR struggles with even very small files because of the resource hog it is, I would tend to agree. However that's more of an issue for the software designers rather than a problem with the computer or high pixel count image files.

I've always considered good computer code as code that manages to achieve the object using as little computer effort as possible. LR seems to have been written by people who think otherwise.


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## Admin US West (May 30, 2011)

motorhead said:


> "Lightroom might choke......"
> 
> Considering LR struggles with even very small files because of the resource hog it is, I would tend to agree. However that's more of an issue for the software designers rather than a problem with the computer or high pixel count image files.
> 
> I've always considered good computer code as code that manages to achieve the object using as little computer effort as possible. LR seems to have been written by people who think otherwise.



Yes, but, we want all that power to manipulate images, and all the bells and whistles. I have photoshop CS5 as well, as far as being a computer hog, its about the same. 

I'm importing about 20,000 files into lightroom right now, It is half done after 5 minutes. The latest version isn't bad, when ver 3 first came out, a lot of users complained.

I do have a small SSD for my primary drive, but images are stored on a ordinary $60.00 1 TB drive.


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## unruled (May 30, 2011)

thanks for the cost clarification posts. puts things into perspective for me.



motorhead said:


> "Lightroom might choke......"
> 
> Considering LR struggles with even very small files because of the resource hog it is, I would tend to agree. However that's more of an issue for the software designers rather than a problem with the computer or high pixel count image files.
> 
> I've always considered good computer code as code that manages to achieve the object using as little computer effort as possible. LR seems to have been written by people who think otherwise.



LR is so incredibly slow for me, its unbelievable. As much as the UI on DPP sucks (as does the workflow), performance just seems easily 3x faster in it. Ive actually started doing initial sorting (ratings, removal flags) in DPP now, and then I import to LR after that.. just cuz its so much faster that way.

Generating thumbnails is just a problem for LR. Ive set LR to use lower quality thumbnails in hopes to speed it up, but not much result. DPP has higher quality thumbnails and its fast. Its a mystery why LR couldnt do that.


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## Flake (May 30, 2011)

motorhead said:


> unruled,
> 
> Apart from higher MP for smoother images, my own interests lie in the dynamic range and low ISO performance, which must be best in class by some margin. I have no interest in the higher, noisier ISO's already offered on existing bodies and certainly don't need even more.



I don't want to be rude here, but don't you realise that dynamic range is the difference between clipping (255) and the noise floor. The better the noise supression the better the dynamic range, the two are inextricably linked.


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## Stone (May 30, 2011)

unruled said:


> thanks for the cost clarification posts. puts things into perspective for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Considering all the things that LR does, storing absolutely every edit in it's db as well as all the metadata capabilities, I consider it resource intensive but not a hog. It NEEDS ram and a fast disk and I expect no less. I own both CS5 and LR3 and I have no problem running both simultaneously on either my laptop or my desktop. To get LR to perform, make sure you max out available RAM, I have 8GB in my laptop & 16GB in my desktop. Put your catalog(s) on an SSD and store your raw files on separate 7200 RPM HD, the larger cache available on the more expensive HDs is definitely helpful. While I have a RAID config on my desktop, I don't find it absolutely necessary to get great performance out of LR.


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## motorhead (May 30, 2011)

"I don't want to be rude here, but don't you realise that dynamic range is the difference between clipping (255) and the noise floor. The better the noise supression the better the dynamic range, the two are inextricably linked".

My own judgement of dynamic range is a whole lot worse than that! I am not bothered about scientific lab tests, just a practical rule of thumb measurement. So I judge DR as the number of stops in a printed image from paper white to as close to full black as my R2880 will go, this is typically less than half the DR as measured using noise as the limit. So using my method, noise is not a consideration in DR.

So where the lab tests might claim 12 or more stops using the noise floor, I would argue that 5 or at the most 6 stops really represents the current state of the art. Give me 12 "real" stops and I'd be a very happy man.

DR is one area where digital still lags film, by some margin.

I


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## NXT1000 (May 31, 2011)

macfly said:


> You should be on a Mac, no problems here even with multiple P65 (PhaseOne 65mp back) files in Capture on or Canon files in Photoshop.



yeah aperture only on mac. I am using one. I have an overclock mac with 4Ghz quad processor and 12GB of RAM. Except your disk are faster. I did not bother with RAID.


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## NXT1000 (May 31, 2011)

scalesusa said:


> I do have a small SSD for my primary drive, but images are stored on a ordinary $60.00 1 TB drive.


It did not work for me, because in OSX must store all program in SSD, i have a lot of program, my old SSD cannot fit in all program. I gave up and just run everything on normal HDD.


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## Admin US West (May 31, 2011)

NXT1000 said:


> scalesusa said:
> 
> 
> > I do have a small SSD for my primary drive, but images are stored on a ordinary $60.00 1 TB drive.
> ...



By small, I mean 120GB. They are available often for $100, and easily hold all my software plus Windows 7 64 bit.

I have a TB of images, so I use a separate drive for those.


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## bikersbeard (May 31, 2011)

got this from another camera site :

National Geographic photographer Stephen Alvarez has posted on his blog that â€œ[a] friend told me that there are some Canon 1ds MK IV test models floating around. That means 2 things. The much awaited cameraâ€™s release is imminent and we should have a first look at it here soon.â€
Weâ€™ve been expecting the Canon flagship to appear, and the first sightings are being reported.
As noted previously, expect the Canon 1Ds MK IV to be 30 megapixels or more, possibly as high as 40 megapixels (although I think 30 to 32 is where itâ€™ll come in at).
The big unknown on the Canon flagship is video. Iâ€™m thinking not, due to technical constraints with such a large sensor and the amount of information that it would need to pipe through for video, but you never know. Canon may surprise us.
Expect the 1Ds MkIV to have the 1D MkIV focus system. Thatâ€™s pretty much a given.
Itâ€™ll be interesting to see the full official specs on the flagship, and if anybody has anymore sightings to report, let me know!


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## Admin US West (May 31, 2011)

bikersbeard said:


> got this from another camera site :
> 
> National Geographic photographer Stephen Alvarez has posted on his blog that â€œ[a] friend told me that there are some Canon 1ds MK IV test models floating around. That means 2 things. The much awaited cameraâ€™s release is imminent and we should have a first look at it here soon.â€
> Weâ€™ve been expecting the Canon flagship to appear, and the first sightings are being reported.
> ...


Local photographers have been seen with test models of the 1DSMK IV for over two years. It does not really mean much, except that they are testing.


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## NXT1000 (May 31, 2011)

[/quote]

By small, I mean 120GB. They are available often for $100, and easily hold all my software plus Windows 7 64 bit.

I have a TB of images, so I use a separate drive for those.
[/quote]

when i bought my 60GB SSD it was high capacity then, now i can buy a 200GB one at same price. 
i gave up 60GB SSD for osx, but it work with win7, because win can use other partition easily, not so osx.


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## NXT1000 (May 31, 2011)

bikersbeard said:


> got this from another camera site :
> As noted previously, expect the Canon 1Ds MK IV to be 30 megapixels or more, possibly as high as 40 megapixels (although I think 30 to 32 is where itâ€™ll come in at).



so high, it must be very expensive, because yield will be low. 
and i doubt there is any PC or mac that can work with the RAW file on aperture 3 smoothly.

I might have to wait for end of year, when intel come out with new chips and raid on fastest ssd available to even stand a chance. CMOS chip is moving faster than PC technology.


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## Admin US West (May 31, 2011)

NXT1000 said:


> bikersbeard said:
> 
> 
> > got this from another camera site :
> ...



Why do you think the yield will be low? If there is a flaw on the sensor, its no good, regardless of the number of photosites. The yield, given the same quality of wafer is mostly affected by the size of the sensor.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_Full-Frame_CMOS_White_Paper.pdf


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## NotABunny (Jun 1, 2011)

motorhead said:


> DR is one area where digital still lags film, by some margin.



I don't get it?! If the sensor gives you 12 stops and the print only 6, why is this a problem of the digital part?


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## motorhead (Jun 1, 2011)

NotABunny said:


> motorhead said:
> 
> 
> > DR is one area where digital still lags film, by some margin.
> ...



The problem is not the printer or the paper. Yes they have their own limitations but the camera sensor is the major stumbling block.

When the labs test DR they look for "information content" in the highlights and shadows and as long as there is information its counted as valid. The problem is that at the shadow end its pure noise, nothing else exists, yet the tests ignore that inconvenient fact. The problem exists because science rather than the mark one eyeball is used.

Now consider the response curve of any digital camera sensor you care to name. Typically in the middle there is a curve that approximates the curves we are used to seeing with film. However at either end there are enormously long tails that are virtually horizontal stretching maybe 3 or even 4 stops in each direction, serving no useful function except to fool the lab tests I am being so scathing about!

So I repeat, 6 stops is a typical "real" response from digital cameras right now and I for one look forward to Canon improving on that. I have a very nice iron footbridge over a river near me and on a bright summers day I can get less than half the tonal range of the scene in one shot. I tend not to like over the top HDR images, but often shoot at least 3 bracketed frames and pick and choose the best from each. But I'm hoping that in future we will be able to do it with one frame.


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## unfocused (Jun 3, 2011)

Richard/Motorhead,

This is totally off topic but I saw pictures on your Zenfolio from Provence. We're going there at the end of September, so I'm looking for tips/suggestions. Flying into Nice, driving to the Canyon du Verdon then to St. Remy de Provence, where we are renting an apt. for a week. 

I'd love to channel Cartier-Bresson and get an iconic shot of the Plane Trees. Any location ideas? Also hoping to visit the Camargue. Plus, of course, the cities and villages themselves. 

Any thoughts?

Sorry guys for veering totally off-topic, but as we all know, hardly any of these threads stay on-topic anyway.


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## motorhead (Jun 3, 2011)

unfocused,

We based ourselves in Avignon with the intention of catching the sunflowers and lavender. Sadly both were early that year and we pretty much missed both. But Avignon is convenient to get to by train and a good base for your work I'd say.

Cannot remember too many plane trees, but the main square in Avignon has a number from memory.


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## unfocused (Jun 3, 2011)

Motorhead/Richard,

Thanks. I appreciate your response. BTW, as a regular reader of this forum, I also appreciate the reasonable and commonsense approach that comes through on your posts.


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