# Wait for the Canon 5D Mark IV or get the Mark III?



## lolage (Oct 11, 2013)

Hi

Sorry for this topic, but I'm at the point where I want to upgrade to full frame after having a 600D for a couple of years.

I want it for 50/50 photo and video, I would get the 6D but the video on the MK3 is much more superior! I've not spent this much money on a camera before, hence my last minute doubts and hesitation! 

Thoughts on if its even worth thinking about waiting on the Mark IV please! 

Thanks,

Ben.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 11, 2013)

If you need a camera, get one. if not, there will always be another new model a few years away. Expect a 2 year wait.


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## lolage (Oct 11, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> If you need a camera, get one. if not, there will always be another new model a few years away. Expect a 2 year wait.



If its 2 years I guess I'll just get the 5dmk3. If it was a year or sooner I'd be tempted to hang on...


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## captainkanji (Oct 11, 2013)

Get the 5d3 now. You will get to enjoy it and it will probably sell nicely when the 5d4 comes out. It is definitely the camera I would have chosen if I were into video (and had 3 months of overtime). I sold my first DSLR (7D) after about 9 months for $500 less than I paid new. Not too bad considering what a rental costs.


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## mackguyver (Oct 11, 2013)

You will be blown away by the 5DIII coming from the 600D, and yes, it will probably be 2+ years for the 5DIV.


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## Jim K (Oct 11, 2013)

Photography Bay said
"The 5D X (or whatever the camera would be called) would likely see a marginal kick in specs as compared to the jump in performance we saw from the 5D Mark II to the 5D Mark III."

So if you are looking for a real improvement over the 5D3 I would say to wait for the 5D5/5D X Mark II. There will always be something better down the line. ;D

BTW, I am VERY pleased with my 5D3 for still images (no interest in video).


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## chilledXpress (Oct 11, 2013)

It's the 5D Mark 7 you really want to wait for... I wouldn't shoot anything until you can get a hold of that one.


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## Don Haines (Oct 11, 2013)

lolage said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry for this topic, but I'm at the point where I want to upgrade to full frame after having a 600D for a couple of years.
> 
> ...


This is a particularly poor time to predict the future of higher end bodies...Nobody knows what is going to happen or when it will happen. What will happen with high-megapixel cameras? What will happen with dual-pixel technology? When will new fabrication tech make it to the FF lines? What lessons will be learned from wireless interfaces and touch screens and how will it effect the user interface? Will mirrorless emerge?

The 5D3 is fairly new and is a kick-ass general purpose camera.... I can't see a big rush to be replacing it soon as it is a hot seller. People have been told by Canon that the 7D2 will be "revolutionary" and the safe bet is that we will wait till the middle of 2014 to get our hands on it... I am sure that lessons learned from it will make thier way into a 5D4, but an optimistic timeframe is mid 2015 for it to be released... but it will probably be later...

So the question to be asked is do you want a known great camera now, or some unknown capacity camera in a few years time... unless you are not planning to take pictures for the next 2-3 years, I'd get the 5D3 now.


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## justsomedude (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm waiting for the Canon 12Z Mark9, with onboard Mac OS, 6" retina display LCD, and octo-card support (triple CF, triple SD, 1 microSD, and 1 nanocard [not yet invented]). It will have a direct link up to the Hubble space telescope for snapping shots of nebulae from my bedroom. It will definitely have a 10TB wireless network connection to mah laptop, and 250,000mah LiPo batteries for continuous use. And if it doesn't shoot at 49 FPS... I'm throwing it on the ground and waiting for the Mark10. Oh, and the sensor better have 790megapixels, or I won't even look at it.

5DMark3? When you compare it to the specs I've listed, you realize that it is a total joke of a camera. I don't know how photographers get by with such junk.


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## Lichtgestalt (Oct 11, 2013)

lolage said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry for this topic, but I'm at the point where I want to upgrade to full frame after having a 600D for a couple of years.
> 
> ...



with your experience.. the 5D MK3 is not good enough, it will limit your artistic vision! 

i say... wait for the 5D MK4 or think about buying a 1D X II.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Oct 11, 2013)

ditto with most here. it will be 2 years minimum for a 5dmk4. I would bet the 6d gets refreshed before the 5d series (following the logic that the 6d is entry level and will follow the rules for an entry level camera's - but because it's FF, i think it will be on a 2 year refreshing cycle. I think that's one of the reasons they spec'ed it so low in terms of AF and some of the other goodies they left out of it (so they can push out incremental updates), and, that gives them an FF platform to test some of their ideas for the 5d4. 

my guess is late 2014/15 for the 6d2
late 2015/2016 for the mk4


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## albron00 (Oct 11, 2013)

I sold mine 7D and got 5DMk3 couple month ago. Happy.
Go forward!


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## chris_w_digits (Oct 11, 2013)

I got the 5D Mark III about a year ago and have been extremely pleased with it. If you have the 5D3 and a good set of lenses specific to your shooting needs, you'll really enjoy the camera.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Oct 11, 2013)

chilledXpress said:


> It's the 5D Mark 7 you really want to wait for... I wouldn't shoot anything until you can get a hold of that one.



Dude, you just made me shart in my pants. 

In all seriousness though, test drive both the 6D and 5D3 and figure out which one actually fits your needs better as they both have different pros and cons. Either one will be a significant upgrade from your current body and you may find that the 6D is enough to give you what you need + some other features that are not in the 5D. 

Re contemplating on waiting for the 5D4.... your time could be much better spent on other things.


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## BUPHO (Oct 11, 2013)

Get the Mark III, you won`t regret it and don`t even consider the 6D. If you can spare the money, get the 5D3!


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## pedro (Oct 11, 2013)

mackguyver said:


> You will be blown away by the 5DIII coming from the 600D, and yes, it will probably be 2+ years for the 5DIV.


+1. I came from a 30D last August...and: the honeymoon isn't over yet! 8) Great cam. I'm all for stills and high ISOs and it is much more camera than I'd ever need as an amateur tog. Saving up for a 5DV now. I am on a small budget camerawise, but with an almost complete lens line up for my type of photography (landscape, nightscapes, lowlight candids) there's no other investment requirements for me. I will stay without flash for good. Robert Frank is my hero and he did great with much less tech... So go for it and sell it once the 5DIV comes out or keep it and join me with the 5DV next time ;-) You can't fail with a 5DIII and a bunch of nice lenses which suit your needs.




Z96A6752bBWKLeincropDEF by Peter Hauri, on Flickr




Z96A6566bMasterKleinNRTLGKDEFALT by Peter Hauri, on Flickr




Z96A6235bKleinrMasterDEF by Peter Hauri, on Flickr




Z96A6196bDEFBWKlein by Peter Hauri, on Flickr

*ISO 51200 handheld*



Z96A5407bWEB by Peter Hauri, on Flickr

*ISO 102400 handheld*



Z96A3506bTLKLEINBW by Peter Hauri, on Flickr


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## danski0224 (Oct 11, 2013)

lolage said:


> Thoughts on if its even worth thinking about waiting on the Mark IV please!



I would wait.

I have a 5DIV on order- the 5DIII pales in comparison. Don't know how people can use it.


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## Harry Muff (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm waiting until the Mk V comes out.


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## Kwanon (Oct 11, 2013)

Get the mark III, the mark IV is not coming out in a while.. no reason to be without a good camera for the next 2-3 or more years.


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## Dylan777 (Oct 11, 2013)

I would upgrade 5D 3 *IF* mrk 4 has huge improvement in high ISO.


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## pedro (Oct 11, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> I would upgrade 5D 3 *IF* mrk 4 has huge improvement in high ISO.



In some earlier posts or at dpr I learned: don't upgrade to the next body of the same model, just skip one cycle. so I am looking forward to see some high ISO improvements in the 5DV. Hope Canon don't screw it and maintain the MP at about the same amount. Meanwhile my shutter gently clicks... Not that much: shot about 6600 frames since August 2012. So about 5+ years from now I'll be at +/- 40.000 which will do for a perfect back up body.


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## Eldar (Oct 11, 2013)

Allow yourself to a treat. The 5DIII will be an giant leap to what you are used to. You will have so much fun with it. And then, when (if...) the 5DIV comes out, you may think, is it worth it?? considering the quality you are getting from the 5DIII? Or maybe, at that time, we have a phenomenal 3D MkI, which will make the combined 1DX/Nikon 800E look like stone age dinosaurs?
The real issue is, ... your motives are passing by you today. Make sure you can capture them when they are there ...
Have fun


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## Triggyman (Oct 11, 2013)

I've had the 5D3 for more than a year and as a penny pincher as I am, I do not regret buying it (handed down the 7D to my older brotha). I'm so pleased with the 5D3, I'm so in love with it I've even decided to gift it with a 24-70mm II late this month - a perfect combination!

I agree with the others here that the next model would be 2-3+ years from now.

If you have the money go for it and don't look back on your bank account.

What if the 5D4 comes and you'll think it's too expensive and you'd wait again until the price comes down, you'll add another 2-3 years of waiting and then think about the 5D6.


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## brad-man (Oct 11, 2013)

I _am_ waiting for the 5DIV so I can pick up a 5DIII for around 2G. Till then, my 6D and 7D are quite adequate. However in your case, as many have mentioned, it will be _at least_ a year and a half before the 5D is upgraded, so buy now (assuming you have nice enough glass to go with it).


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## ishdakuteb (Oct 11, 2013)

if you prefer full frame sensor and you are in need right now, then pick up a 5d mark iii. otherwise, wait until 7d mark ii released, you will then have more choice. i am using both systems and i have no problem with using crop body, even with my 30d in low light.


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## Roo (Oct 11, 2013)

I was thinking about whether to wait for the 7DII or just go for the 5D3 and decided that the camera in my hand now is better than the one that might come in 6, 12 or 24 months. So I'm now just awaiting delivery of my new 5D3 early next week


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 12, 2013)

lolage said:


> Thoughts on if its even worth thinking about waiting on the Mark IV please!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ben.


Holy sh!t, you will have to wait at least for 2 more years before 5D MK IV shows up ... if you've got the budget, get the 5D MK III now.


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## RGF (Oct 12, 2013)

lolage said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry for this topic, but I'm at the point where I want to upgrade to full frame after having a 600D for a couple of years.
> 
> ...



I think you'll really love the Mark V. So be patience - only another 6 years ;D


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## drjlo (Oct 12, 2013)

If a 5D MkIV is really needed ASAP, I personally would buy the upcoming Sony NEX-full frame, paint "5D MkIV" over the label and pretend it was 5D IV. A win-win for everybody involved


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## distant.star (Oct 12, 2013)

.
Forget some distant future. Do this...

Wait six or eight weeks. When the holiday season sales get going, watch for the best price you can possibly get and buy a 5D3 at that time.

There's no more to it than that.

Good luck with it.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Oct 12, 2013)

BUPHO said:


> Get the Mark III, you won`t regret it and don`t even consider the 6D. If you can spare the money, get the 5D3!




I would seriously contest this. As an owner of both the mk3 and the 6d, how can you honestly tell a 600D user npot to even consider it when you don't even know he he shoots? If he isn't shooting sports extensively, the 6d is fine. I can only speak for the still side of things though, don't do video so don't know which is better for what, but, from what I gather from others, unless your doing video professionally, is it really worth it? The 6d has a pretty kick butt sensor. When i first got mine I gingerly used it on weddings, relying mostly on the mk3. But now, I use the 6d without question. It's rare I find myself in a situation where I absolutely must use the mk3 (ususally only for portraits where the subjects are framed far left or right. 

with apples to apples settings, the differences are pretty much non-existent. without knowing more about your photography, your needs, the demands you put on your equipment - the 6d is a perfectly viable option


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## IsaacImage (Oct 12, 2013)

5d mkIII more than what average will ever need.


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## pwp (Oct 12, 2013)

lolage said:


> Thoughts on if its even worth thinking about waiting on the Mark IV please!


Crikey! It's the first "should I wait for the 5DIV post". Congratulations.

Take a comfy seat and settle in for a very long wait. The MkIV (if Canon continues with the current 5D Mk _xx_ evolution) will be years away. 

Dig deep and go for the 5DIII. This is a no-regrets camera. 

pw


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## Meh (Oct 12, 2013)

chilledXpress said:


> It's the 5D Mark 7 you really want to wait for... I wouldn't shoot anything until you can get a hold of that one.



Ha!


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## Wilmark (Oct 12, 2013)

We have absolutely no information about any 5D Mk4 out there. There is not even a hint of a rumor. Weve been getting rumors with details about 7DII for almost a year and its not coming out until possibly late next year. The 5D3 has plenty of life left, especially with the announcement of developments from Magic Lantern, and its possibly the best camera in its price range that I am sure is outselling the Nikon D800 with less issues (check the dissatisfied customers for both cameras on sites like B& H or Amazon). Canon is not going to kill such a good performer thats still selling very well, neither will it risk bringing a camera with dubious technology to market too early (like a large MP) into the 5D line up, and risk a debacle like the Nikon d600. If you want better youll probably have to go the way of 1DX or that other body that's rumored to supplement the lineup. But to kill such a well received camera like the 5D3 is not something canon will do - BTW the D800 may have been wining many awards but i suspect that the 5D3 though more expensive is cleaning up the bottom line. So i would guess that you have more than 2 years to wait for a 5D4.


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## infared (Oct 12, 2013)

mackguyver said:


> You will be blown away by the 5DIII coming from the 600D, and yes, it will probably be 2+ years for the 5DIV.


The 5Div will be introduced at $4000...consider that. The III is PLENTY of camera...look for sales..you can buy one for $2500 if you keep your eyes open.
Great camera!


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## Sporgon (Oct 12, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> - the 6d is a perfectly viable option



But should he not wait for the 6D II ?


The OP should thank his lucky stars he's not a Nikon shooter. D600, or should I wait for the D610. But soon there will be the D620............


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## RGomezPhotos (Oct 12, 2013)

Just get the camera NOW if you want it. It's just silly to wait for something better. Because something better is always coming.

I think the Mark IV will be announced next year and released early 2015. Or MAYBE late 2014. But really, the MK III is so amazing. It will take years for you to outgrow it.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 12, 2013)

distant.star said:


> .
> Wait six or eight weeks. When the holiday season sales get going, watch for the best price you can possibly get and buy a 5D3 at that time.


+1 ... I almost forgot that you have something called Black Friday (or something like that) when a lot of neat stuff gets sold off at incredibly low prices ... that's a great time to pick up some of these expensive items.


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## brad-man (Oct 12, 2013)

Big Value via ebay has them now for $2575. Not likely to get better than that any time soon...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-DSLR-Camera-Body-Only-/360763122461


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## e17paul (Oct 12, 2013)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> In all seriousness though, test drive both the 6D and 5D3 and figure out which one actually fits your needs better as they both have different pros and cons. Either one will be a significant upgrade from your current body and you may find that the 6D is enough to give you what you need + some other features that are not in the 5D.
> 
> Re contemplating on waiting for the 5D4.... your time could be much better spent on other things.



+1

I have a 6D, which I'm very happy with. There are a few features I would like from the 5D3, but I wouldn't want the extra weight. That is personal preference, so you may reach a different conclusion.

Also, the price difference between the two would be half way to paying for a 70D, which you could use for video. Of course, that only works if you are content with full frame for stills only, and a crop sensor for video. Alternatively, any money not spent on a depreciating body can always be spent on lenses ;-) 

Don't forget, you're not enjoying your investment until you go ahead and buy it. Buying a 5D3 or 6D now will save money compared to their street prices after launch, and even more compared to a 5D4 when that arrives. That may not be soon, if nothing comes out at the Autumn trade shows, then there is no point in waiting.


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## mrsfotografie (Oct 12, 2013)

IsaacImage said:


> 5d mkIII more than what average will ever need.



'Even' the 5DMkII still fits the bill perfectly for that matter! (discounting AF performance for fast moving subjects).


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## infared (Oct 12, 2013)

WHY WAIT!?!?!? That is $900 less than I paid for mine!

http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-2575


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## Chuck Alaimo (Oct 12, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> IsaacImage said:
> 
> 
> > 5d mkIII more than what average will ever need.
> ...



The OP is coming from a 600d- so - I don't think the 6d or the 5dmk2 is any worse than the 600d for servo tracking.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Oct 12, 2013)

e17paul said:


> JohnDizzo15 said:
> 
> 
> > In all seriousness though, test drive both the 6D and 5D3 and figure out which one actually fits your needs better as they both have different pros and cons. Either one will be a significant upgrade from your current body and you may find that the 6D is enough to give you what you need + some other features that are not in the 5D.
> ...



I agree with both of you here. Of course if you rent a 5d3 and a 6d, which is the more robust camera with more features...the 5d3. The question I am wondering though, which all the purists here don't seem to want to ask or care to know --- what is the OP shooting. He said 50/50 stills and video. but that's pretty much all. what kind of stills work? And what kind of video work? Demanding professional work? Semi pro? Or hobby? 


that's why i bring up the 6d as an option - the 6d IQ is a huge upgrade over the 600d. Does it have the super AF system, yes. Which btw, the 5d3 AF is awesome, but, if your shooting landscapes on a tripod and using live view for focus then why spend the extra $1000 on the mk3? And with the the servo mode, unless your regularly tracking fast moving subjects - like shooting sports or wildlife, having the AF in the bag is nice but is it worth spending the extra $1000 for it? I shoot weddings and portraits, it's rare that i use the tracking capabilities (I don't need 100 shots of the b&g coming down the isle, using servo mode on that would pretty much be spray and pray). I also shoot events and live music, and every once in a while you get a metal band and they like to run around the stage - Servo does come in handy then, but even with that said, for the 2 or 3 shows a year this happens, not worth it. what sells me on the mk3 is that it is more rugged, better weathersealed, and does have some bells and whistles I need. 

With that said though, when I got the 6d, I used it mainly with the wide angle lens, it was the machete, while the mk3 was the scalpel. Now after a few months using both, I care less about which body I use and more about the lens on each. I am now favoring the 70-200 on the 6d, and the 24mm 1.4 on the mk3. I also prefer going macro with the 6d because I don't have a grip on the 6d so i can get lower with it. where my weddings where once a 70/30 split (70% 5d3, 30% 6d), now it's more like 50/50 between the 2, and yeah, sometimes the 6d ends up pulling the bulk of the load.

the little things:

Sync speed has not been an issue. the 1/4000 limit, every once in a while this is an issue shooting midday if I want to be wide open, but, not so much of an issue that I hate it (ok, if i did not have a mk3 in the bag, this would be a bigger issue). Lack of a sync port, I thought this would bug me, but now I rather like the idea of having both bodies set differently for receptions - the mk3 can go with off cam flash, the 6d can go on cam flash - this gives me a greater variety of unique looks. 

I do like the weight and the size of the 6d too, it does really help ease the load on a 12 hour day.

None of what is said here is in any way meant to bash the 5d3, it's a fantastic camera. Hell, one of the reasons i am using my 6d more now is to put less miles on the 5d3. What i am saying though is this - do you need everything the 5d3 brings to the table? If you were upgrading from a 7d, and use the 7d's AF system to the maximum level, if you shoot sports and wildlife, then yes - the 5d3 is probably the better choice. But if your not doing that, then, snag a 6d and use the savings to buy a nice lens!


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## lolage (Oct 12, 2013)

Thanks a lot for your help guys, even the sarcastic ones. 

I'm going to bite the bullet and just get the 5Dmk3 today. I know its a big jump from the 600D, I could get away with the 6D but seeing as its going to be used for video+photo 50/50 the 5dmk3 wins over the 6D by quite a mile...

Thanks again. ;D


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## pedro (Oct 12, 2013)

lolage said:


> Thanks a lot for your help guys, even the sarcastic ones.
> 
> I'm going to bite the bullet and just get the 5Dmk3 today. I know its a big jump from the 600D, I could get away with the 6D but seeing as its going to be used for video+photo 50/50 the 5dmk3 wins over the 6D by quite a mile...
> 
> Thanks again. ;D



You did the right thing. Congrats and yüu will have loads of fun!


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## xps (Oct 12, 2013)

pedro said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > You will be blown away by the 5DIII coming from the 600D, and yes, it will probably be 2+ years for the 5DIV.
> ...




Nice milkyway-shots. Which lens did you use and which time and aperture?


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 13, 2013)

lolage said:


> Thanks a lot for your help guys, even the sarcastic ones.
> 
> I'm going to bite the bullet and just get the 5Dmk3 today. I know its a big jump from the 600D, I could get away with the 6D but seeing as its going to be used for video+photo 50/50 the 5dmk3 wins over the 6D by quite a mile...
> 
> Thanks again. ;D


Congratulations on your decision ... I'm sure you'll be very happy with its performance ... btw, have you seen this CR post: http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/10/deals-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-body-2575-2861/ ... might save you some good money. Happy shopping


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## Niki (Oct 13, 2013)

did you buy it yet....If I didn't have one already...I would get a Canon film camera...cheap...and great images..and wait for the IV


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## danski0224 (Oct 13, 2013)

Niki said:


> did you buy it yet....If I didn't have one already...I would get a Canon film camera...cheap...and great images..and wait for the IV



The beta specs for the Mk V are pretty impressive.

It really is a difficult decision.


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## e17paul (Oct 13, 2013)

Niki said:


> did you buy it yet....If I didn't have one already...I would get a Canon film camera...cheap...and great images..and wait for the IV



+1 for those only wanting full frame for occasional stills, I have recently picked up an Eos 5 on Ebay for about £30. 

Obviously no good for video, as the requirements in the original post, and live view is notable for it's absence. I just wish that Canon's digital cameras had eye control focus and a depth mode.


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## pedro (Oct 14, 2013)

*@xps:* thanks a lot for your uplifting comment. *Lens:* Canon EF 16-35 F/2.8 USM II *Time and aperture:* Just click on the photographs, they get you to my flickr photostram. Click on the *...* (three white dots on the lower right of the picture) and go for Exif something...Regards, Pedro.


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## TLN (Oct 14, 2013)

Hey, Why not grab a 5d2? It's sold for cheap used. You can try full frame, and then patiently wait for a next 5d monster. Yep, there's quality difference between 5d2 and 3 but it is on a higher ISOs and price difference is noticeable.


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## pedro (Oct 14, 2013)

Or you go 6D for the moment. It's a great camera as well. Look at the thread here by Dustin Abbott "Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII"http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12847.0


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## jm (Oct 24, 2013)

the mark IV could be at lease 6months away, minimum. however i have noticed a $300 price drop in the mk III recently......hmmmmm

http://www.johnmckayphotography.com


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## Don Haines (Oct 24, 2013)

jm said:


> the mark IV could be at lease 6months away, minimum. however i have noticed a $300 price drop in the mk III recently......hmmmmm
> 
> http://www.johnmckayphotography.com



6 months? That seems highly optimistic given that we don't even expect the 7D to be announced for another 6 months.... 2 years seems like a more realistic timeframe... but I would bet on longer than that.

As digital cameras mature, the difference between updates gets smaller and smaller and for the higher end cameras you can expect update times to get longer.


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## eml58 (Oct 25, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> jm said:
> 
> 
> > the mark IV could be at lease 6months away, minimum. however i have noticed a $300 price drop in the mk III recently......hmmmmm
> ...



I'de agree with Don, you could be waiting another 1 to 2 years for an update to the MK III, Cameras are throw away items pretty well, buy what you can't afford now, sell it, or give it away in 2 years and get the new one, don't fall in love with them as after 2 years your always looking over your shoulder at the newer model that just walked by, and be happy with NGAS, this is not an affliction, it's a well developed and nurtured condition.

If you really wanted to upgrade every 6 months, get a Nikon D600, then you could get a Nikon D610 within 6 months (actually right now), and if the optional oil chucking shutter isn'y fixed, you could get the Nikon D620 maybe by Xmas next year, that would be 3 new Cameras in 12 months, with or without the problematic shutter (your choice of course) but all NEW !! and all with no discount for the previous faults in design, Nikon could be onto something here.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 25, 2013)

lolage said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry for this topic, but I'm at the point where I want to upgrade to full frame after having a 600D for a couple of years.
> 
> ...



If you tend to shoot a lot less over the winter and if you live in an area where winter is about to hit then I might wait until spring and see what gets announced. If you plan to shoot a lot now, go on big trips soon, etc. I guess you could spring for the 5D3 now. I have a feeling that the 5D4 is looking to not make it out this spring maybe next fall or the following spring. You never know though so I guess it depends how much you'd shoot over the upcoming months. It also depends if you like having more reach and tons of detail or lots of DR at low ISO or not, if not of that matters too much then the 5D3 looks pretty good so long as you are willing to deal with ML RAW video (which is amazing) and manually focusing video.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 25, 2013)

No way it's 2-3+ years out as some here are saying, that's absurd, Canon will be looking so incredibly old on the sensor by then (it already does) and they will want to get 4k options going and the new video focusing into more models. They'll get eaten alive if they wait that long. The 5D3 has already been out almost 1.5 years, no way they go 3.5-4.5+ years between five series this time (even last time it was 3.5 not 4+). I'd say it's 1 to 1.5 years out. It doesn't seem like it it's 6 months out though, no way. Only way it will take that long is if they release some sort of 2D camera or some such and keep 5D3 selling along at a bit lower price point. Maybe some sort of 2D thing or new 1 series could hit in six months. Hard to say. The new Sony may have them panicked if they had planned to go $8000 bulky one series only for more MP and DR or something next year.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 25, 2013)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> I'd say it's 1 to 1.5 years out.


We better start a new thread on the potential specs of 5D MK IV really soon ;D


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## Chuck Alaimo (Oct 25, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say it's 1 to 1.5 years out.
> ...



i won't be satisfied unless it is over 80MP's with 1342 stops of DR, I also want it to make coffee, and have 2 million AF points....lol


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## CarlTN (Oct 25, 2013)

lolage said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > If you need a camera, get one. if not, there will always be another new model a few years away. Expect a 2 year wait.
> ...



I fail to see the logic here. You say you can wait a year, but not two years? That's silly. Either you need a camera like the 5D3, or you don't. It sounds like you can get by without it for now. If you're wanting to use it to do important or professional work, then I would say buy one now...especially going into the holidays when there's bound to be a deal. Personally I can wait until the 5D4, unless something else comes along first. But that's because I love my 6D, and the video from it works fine for my needs. I've yet to see any moire from it, but I don't shoot a lot of closeups of people wearing striped suits. If I was doing very much quality video work, I would probably have bought both a 5D3 and a cinema camera, along with all the ringing that's required to do pro work.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 25, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...


Agreed, except for the coffee part ... I want it to make piping hot Chai Latte with Ginger ;D


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## Janbo Makimbo (Oct 25, 2013)

Better hold off for the Mark V, its going to be much better than the IV !!


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 26, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> Better hold off for the Mark V, its going to be much better than the IV !!


Will it to make piping hot Chai Latte with Ginger, better than the MK IV? ;D


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## Vossie (Oct 26, 2013)

Get the iii. You wil not regret.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Oct 26, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> Janbo Makimbo said:
> 
> 
> > Better hold off for the Mark V, its going to be much better than the IV !!
> ...


No but I think it will have a pop up flash!


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## Marsu42 (Oct 26, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> Better hold off for the Mark V, its going to be much better than the IV !!



You might be correct there, but the big splash with mirrorless and electronic viewfinder (and helpers like in-vf focus peaking) is yet to come - today Canon has to build a high-end dslr system for 14fps, tomorrow you'll get 140fps on a Rebel. But this won't be in the next generation, so buying an "old-school" phase af system now is nothing to worry about.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 26, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > Janbo Makimbo said:
> ...


Naah ... in that case I endorse 5D MK III ;D


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## beckstoy (Oct 26, 2013)

Years away from M4. Just buy a M3 and make some $ while waiting for the new one.

...no brainer.

I was one of those guys who bought my M3 immediately. I had a friend who waited eight months and then tried to rub it into my face that he'd saved a couple of hundred dollars on his.

He neglected to realize, and I didn't point out, that I'd had eight months of producing amazing photos with super happy clients. I'd made multiples of his savings from clients as well as greatly increased my client and referral base.


don't dork around anymore. just get the dang thing. you'll not regret it.


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## scottkinfw (Oct 26, 2013)

Buy it now on sale.

In 1 to two years, get a Mark IV, and use the Mark III as a second body. Problem solved.

Go out, shoot, have fun, don't get "faclempt".

sek



CarlTN said:


> lolage said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...


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## sirnose66 (Oct 26, 2013)

MK1 to MK2 was approx. 3 1/4 years, MK 2 to MK 3 was just 3 years. 

For all those saying 2 yrs plus from today's date for MK 4 that would be a gap of at least 3 years 7 months. With technology advancing at such a pace and some new tech for example in the 70D that isn't in the 5D3 what is the reason for thinking that the trend would be for a longer gap?

My money is on early 2015 (literally, I am saving for the big upgrade as I have 3 EFS lenses to replace).

Incidentally there was a rumour on this site last year that there would not be a 7D2 but a higher specced replacement for the 60D - hasn't that come true??


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## Marsu42 (Oct 26, 2013)

sirnose66 said:


> My money is on early 2015 (literally, I am saving for the big upgrade as I have 3 EFS lenses to replace).



We should do a poll  ... Imho Canon cannot do a 5d3->5d4 (sensor) update which would outperform the 1dx, and I don't see a 1dx2 in 2015.

At the same time unless Canon gets under severe market pressure imho the now collected gimmicks (wifi, gps, touchscreen, dual af sensor for (amateur) video) don't warrant an update a la Nikon d600->d610 yet... the 5d3 is a competent stills camera and a terrific video camera with Magic Lantern raw video, so why rock the boat?



sirnose66 said:


> My money is on early 2015 (literally, I am saving for the big upgrade as I have 3 EFS lenses to replace).Incidentally there was a rumour on this site last year that there would not be a 7D2 but a higher specced replacement for the 60D - hasn't that come true??



This rumor was about that there wouldn't be a 7d2 _at_all_ but Canon would re-merge 60d+7d1 into a 50d-like update ... which isn't what happened.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Oct 28, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> sirnose66 said:
> 
> 
> > My money is on early 2015 (literally, I am saving for the big upgrade as I have 3 EFS lenses to replace).
> ...



hmm...I gotta wonder if that may not be correct... It kind of depends on a few things. For 1 --- 1 series bodies tend to have a longer period of time from announcement to hitting the shelves. The 1dx was announced well before the 5d3, but, the 5d3 was on the shelves well before the 1dx. Also, if the 5d4 held a similar fps rate...most of the other features can/could match the 1dx2. My guess is also that the dev of both would run together. the 5d4 will be the slower, smaller 1 series body. of course the 1 series would keep it's built in grip and more robust construction - and be the king of fps! 

The kink here is what happens with the big mp body --- what will the form factor/price point be? I think canon will be less worried about cannibalizing 1dx sales with a 5d4 if they also have a big mp beast on the table. 

Last speculative guess --- think summer olympics - with that comes the new bodies....so 2016....


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## FirstL (Oct 28, 2013)

What more could you want than what the 5D Mark III already offers? One that goes out and takes photos and just brings them back to you while you're drinking your morning coffee?


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## Don Haines (Oct 28, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...


If it goes dual-pixel it might have 20 million autofocus points


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## CarlTN (Oct 28, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> sirnose66 said:
> 
> 
> > My money is on early 2015 (literally, I am saving for the big upgrade as I have 3 EFS lenses to replace).
> ...



Are you, Chuck and others not forgetting the elephant in the room? That is, to learn what Canon will do next, just watch what Nikon introduces first. Didn't the D4 come out before the 1DX, and the 1DX before the 5D3?

The question is, when is the D5 coming out? 2014? Whenever that happens, 6 months later the 1DX successor will come out, and 6 months after that, the 5D4. Am I missing something?

Btw, do any of you own, or have owned, the D3s? I suspect that might be the best performance value in the used pro body market right now (for still images obviously), but I could be wrong. Perhaps the D3, but its high ISO noise was a tad worse. Certainly it's the wrong manufacturer with the wrong grip and mount, but otherwise I bet it would be fun to shoot with if I had alien hands and fingers...haha.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Btw, do any of you own, or have owned, the D3s?



I don't think I've ever touched a pro Nikon or Canon 1d body  ... probably never been close to one, not even though a shop window - I'm the low budget guy around here, and as long as it doesn't run Magic Lantern it doesn't interest me anyway.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Oct 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > sirnose66 said:
> ...



i know a few that rock the d3s ---actually, whenever i see a nikon friend asking for upgrade advice they generally recommend the d700 or the d3s...


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## photo212 (Oct 29, 2013)

If you play the waiting game, you only hurt yourself. If you like the 5DMkIII, get it now. It might be next year the Mark IV comes out, or it might be years from now, if ever.


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## alexanderferdinand (Oct 29, 2013)

Buy a 5D3 now.


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## CarlTN (Oct 29, 2013)

My cousin just sold his 5D3 to adorama, he couldn't be bothered trying to sell it on his own. A shame, he could have gotten more selling on his own.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 29, 2013)

photo212 said:



> If you play the waiting game, you only hurt yourself. If you like the 5DMkIII, get it now.



I don't necessarily agree here because it depends if the person in question already has got another camera and the money saved could be invested in a stellar lens ...

... also with the (underwhelming) 6d available @1500€ the 6d/5d3 price difference could be considered lost if you don't need the fps or af performance. So buying a 6d and then waiting for a 5d4 might also be a sound decision as camera bodies lose their value fastest.


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## CarlTN (Oct 29, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> photo212 said:
> 
> 
> > If you play the waiting game, you only hurt yourself. If you like the 5DMkIII, get it now.
> ...



That's kind of what I did. It's working fine for me. I'm waiting on a 1DX mark ii n...s...that can AF with the central group of points at -6 EV, in order to servo track owls by moonlight.


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## M.ST (Oct 29, 2013)

Wait for the 5D Mark IV or a higher body.


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## Niki (Oct 29, 2013)

will a new camera body be able to run magic lantern


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## Faaier (Oct 29, 2013)

Evolution of camera descision making : 

1. Fantastic but too expensive
2. Still fantastic but still too expensive
3. Great but still a bit expensive
4. Nice (but I would like the latest feature of xyz) and affordable
5. Still nice (but I would like many features of xyz and omega) and - by now - reasonable
6. Reasonable but do I really want an 3 year old camera (and the rumor of a new camera)
7. Reasonable but do I really want a 4 year old camera (and the announcement of new camera)
8. Yes, the new one IS FANTASTIC but too expensive...

I would say, 5D mark iii remains VERY reasonable. Once you bought it, keep remembering that you didn't buy the camera as the latest gadget but to take pictures. And like myself, you will probably keep the camera for a few generations of new cameras before taking the next big step.

And of course, money isn't the only reason why you would wait!


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## iron-t (Oct 29, 2013)

With the 5D3, the bottleneck preventing production of excellent images is external to the camera. Generally it resides somewhere between the ears of the user.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 29, 2013)

iron-t said:


> With the 5D3, the bottleneck preventing production of excellent images is external to the camera. Generally it resides somewhere between the ears of the user.



That is also valid for all other current dslrs - and for situations where you really have to rely on the camera, i.e. action shooting, the 5d3 vs 1d(x/4) still misses some things that are actually useful such as spot metering linked to af point - that's why I'm not that sad that I mostly use my 60d/6d's center point.

Also Canon doesn't seem to be able or willing to enable the af lights while tracking as they did with the 1dx - so there's plenty of room for improvement on a 5d4, I also expect rgb metering to be included.


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## CarlTN (Oct 31, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> iron-t said:
> 
> 
> > With the 5D3, the bottleneck preventing production of excellent images is external to the camera. Generally it resides somewhere between the ears of the user.
> ...



The main thing that could be improved is the sensor. But a 5D4 is 2 years or more off, is it not? Perhaps a development announcement about this time in fall 2014, but with actual cameras to buy in the spring or summer of 2015? Or could it be a year later for all of that, 2016? Maybe it depends on whether the camera gets a minor revision or a major one...besides whatever Nikon decides to do?


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## EchoLocation (Nov 1, 2013)

i talked to my local rep and heard the IV was going to be rather underwhelming.
i'd wait for the V.


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## CarlTN (Nov 1, 2013)

EchoLocation said:


> i talked to my local rep and heard the IV was going to be rather underwhelming.
> i'd wait for the V.



You're being sarcastic, right? The "V" would be a 2019 or 2020 camera, assuming the world economy doesn't completely collapse before then. To speak about a camera two generations off, is rather absurd isn't it?


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## danski0224 (Nov 1, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> You're being sarcastic, right? The "V" would be a 2019 or 2020 camera, assuming the world economy doesn't completely collapse before then. To speak about a camera two generations off, is rather absurd isn't it?



My sources tell me that the VI model will finally correct the problems in the III model.

;D


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## Marsu42 (Nov 1, 2013)

danski0224 said:


> My sources tell me that the VI model will finally correct the problems in the III model.



While introducing new problems that'll leave you withing for either the 5d5 or 1dx2


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## danski0224 (Nov 1, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> While introducing new problems that'll leave you withing for either the 5d5 or 1dx2



Well, duh.

I hope the 1DX III or 1DXs II is out by then.


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## noel (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi - Just discovered this forum. Thank goodness! 

I was all prepared to buy the 5dmiii yesterday at a camera show (good price, though still very $$), but got cold feet. I mostly shoot stills (photojournalism), and increasing doing so for work. But really like the idea of using video in the same camera (am formerly a doc. filmmaker, so video is important). 

I'm just not sure it's worth it to me to buy the 5dmiii w/ out a good video autofocus.

The show is over tomorrow and I'm in a quandary. 

Do I wait for 5dmv or drop down to the 6D (good $1500 less) for now and wait it out?

Any thoughts on how resell-able the 6D will be in a year or two? Alternatively, if I had to, I could buy a much cheaper compromised alternative like the Rebel T5i and wait for the 5dMarkV but can't wait longer then a year I suspect.

Won't buy the 70 as I really want a full frame sensor and if I can't get it, I might as well just buy something for much less money, and wait for better features on the 5dMarkv.

Any thoughts would be REALLY helpful! Thank you.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 2, 2013)

noel said:


> But really like the idea of using video in the same camera (am formerly a doc. filmmaker, so video is important). [...] Do I wait for 5dmv or drop down to the 6D (good $1500 less) for now and wait it out?



Welcome to the forum - there are lots of good threads about 5d3 vs 6d vs (use search ), but here's the gist: For video get the 5d3, as Canon intended it beats the 6d hands down for to reasons: a) no moiré, a serious issue with the 6d sensor, b) with the Magic Lantern firmware add-on 14bit *raw* _1080p_ shooting with the 5d3, the 6d is limited to 720p raw due to slow sd card speed.


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## noel (Nov 2, 2013)

Hello Marsu42,

I apologize. I might not have made myself clear. I do understand the differences between the 6d and 5dmiii. I planned on buying the 5dmarkiii, yesterday. It's just that for all that money, when I really think about it, I'd rather wait for a 5dmarkv which, hopefully has autofocus on the video. Until then, I might as well use my Canon video camera for vid. The issue is stills and the timing of a 5dm4 release (See original post). Thanks.

Noel


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 2, 2013)

noel said:


> I planned on buying the 5dmarkiii, yesterday. It's just that for all that money, when I really think about it, I'd rather wait for a 5dmarkv which, hopefully has autofocus on the video. Until then, I might as well use my Canon video camera for vid.



There will be a 5DIV. I doubt it will be soon. I also highly doubt it'll have AF during video - that is a feature targeted at consumer-level bodies, not pro-level bodies. Cinema lenses are manual focus. Video AF actually might end up in a 6D II, I suppose, but the overall performance (stills AF, frame rate, etc.) will remain better in the 5-series. 

If you need a top-notch camera, the 5DIII is a great choice.


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## Krob78 (Nov 2, 2013)

FirstL said:


> What more could you want than what the 5D Mark III already offers? One that goes out and takes photos and just brings them back to you while you're drinking your morning coffee?



Well, the MkIII isn't perfect yet and neither will the 5D MkIV be perfect. Yet, I cannot express how glad I am that I decided not to wait any longer for the much anticipated 7D2! 

If I had waited, I would have missed out on almost 15,000 images I've taken with my 5D MkIII already in the last 10 months! I would have hated that! I woudn't have any idea how great the move to FF would really be... No idea that I'm missing nothing with FF with regard to IQ on cropped images to "get reach" over my 7D. I would have no idea what it would be like to have my keeper rate increase by approximately 185%, thanks to a far superior AF system...

The list goes on and on... Why wait for something they aren't even rumoring about? I waited almost two years for the rumored 7D2 before I finally said, "forget it". I've not looked back I'm sure the OP won't look back either once he has the most excellent 5D MkIII... 

It's a whole new world, grab one today, worry about a MkIV a year or so after the rumor specs start coming out! Because it's not coming anytime soon! 

5D MkIII is an excellent choice, I wouldn't think twice about it! You'll love FF. ;D


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## sanj (Nov 2, 2013)

chilledXpress said:


> It's the 5D Mark 7 you really want to wait for... I wouldn't shoot anything until you can get a hold of that one.



You are amazing!


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## noel (Nov 2, 2013)

Thank you everyone!

I know, I'm chomping at the bit, Krob78. I can't wait. Neuroanatomist, it just seems to me that now that there is af for the video on the 70, it'd be pretty simple to add it to the 5dmiv. I dunno, just me. But I will say , there are quite a few people out there like me, photojournalists who now shoot still and moving images pretty fluidly. 

My priority is stills - absolutely. But it sure would be nice to have a respectable vid. camera in the same bundle.

For now, dare I say, I may go with the 6. And in a year or two, I'll see what comes down the road. I can't bare the idea of going lower, but still feel uncertain about stepping up $1500 more for no af on the video. Granted, my #1 priority is still photography, but the 6 is respectable, right?

N


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 2, 2013)

noel said:


> Neuroanatomist, it just seems to me that now that there is af for the video on the 70, it'd be pretty simple to add it to the 5dmiv.



I hear you, but simple is not always the same as easy. Some technologies simply don't scale all that well. For example, why don't we have full frame sensors with pixel densities found in APS-C, much less that found in camera phones? Dual pixel AF means a more complex chip design, and the more complex the design, the higher the failure rate in production. Couple that with the already higher QC rejection rate of full frame sensor versus smaller sensors, and what you propose might be cost-prohibitive. Even if a full frame sensor with dual pixel AF can be designed and produced at scale, that doesn't mean it will make it into the 5-series line. The 6D has GPS and Wi-Fi built in, the 5DIII does not (and despite what you may read, I do not believe there are any valid _technical_ reasons for the exclusion). Features that go into lower models don't always make it into higher models. For example, although the one-series bodies have many unique features, they do not have a green square mode, nor do they have things like in-camera HDR. 

Also, recall that autofocus during video has been possible in the Rebel/xxxD line for quite some time. Canon elected not to include that feature in the 6D or the 5DIII.


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 2, 2013)

Firstly... I have both 5D-III and the 6D so I speak from personal experience

Now consider... DSLRs are crap for shooting general video. The only reason to go the DSLR video route is if you really want to do lots of shallow depth of field shots and you want to spend tons of money, time and effirt to get cine type results.

Now on to your question...
Since money is a concern consider getting the 6D and a camcorder. That way you have the benefit of full frame, high ISO and the capability to *EASILY* shoot general video and on occasion shoot shallow-depth-of-field-shots with the 6D.

The only reason to consider the 5D-III is if you really need the AF system.

OSD


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## m3tek44 (Nov 2, 2013)

You know better than anyone about yourself. Ask yourself, do you need camera now? If not and willing to wait for another 1-2 yrs sure why not....


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 2, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> e17paul said:
> 
> 
> > JohnDizzo15 said:
> ...


----------



## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

Hm, okay, thank you, Neuroanatomist. Great points. (I love this list.)

Now it's down to the wire, I have to make my decision tomorrow to get a good deal...

StudentofLight, I have a few questions for you: How is the autofocus on the 6? I've read that it's sluggish under normal conditions. This really worries me. I don't have a lot of tolerance for this.

What about the fewer cross type focus points, does this seem to make any difference? (I'm guessing the above question is related to this...)

Lastly, does the 97% (or something) viewfinder make a difference to you? 

I was psyched about the 2 cards on the 5dmiii, but I can live w/o that.

I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

N



What about the less good


----------



## StudentOfLight (Nov 3, 2013)

The 6D's AF-system is better than the 5D2 which has served pro-photographers well since 2008. The centre AF point is phenomenal, this link may be of interest (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50043373). Anyway I find it more than adequate. The 6D's centre AF-point works all the way down to -3Ev while the 5D3 stops working at about -2Ev.

Shooting Techniques:
With the 6D my personal shooting style is to shoot wider than necessary and crop in post. 20MP goes a long way, so basically I use the center AF-point mainly. The other approach is to lock focus and recompose to shoot but depending on how much your scene changes in that time and your depth of field you can get out-of-focus shots. Another tip is to use high contrast areas on your subject to focus-recompose.

I don't know what lenses you are using but these can also be a limiting factor, both in terms of AF-acquisition speed and cross-type AF-support. Even with the newest firmware on the 5D3, some of the f/2.8 lenses (like my non-L 100mm Macro) are not fully supported for periferal cross-type AF points. For this lens only cross-types in the central section of the AF-array work as cross-types the others just work as conventional AF-points.

In terms of your AF needs, will your subject be moving erratically or toward and away from you? If this is the case then the AF-tracking abilities of the 5D3 offer a definite advantage. The option to use expanded AF-assist points in AI-servo mode is necessary for high-speed action like sports or wildlife photography.

In terms of viewfinder accuracy... Do you process your images yourself or do you pass them on to a colleague straight-out-of-camera? Both the 6D and 5D3 have similar image quality to the 1DX, which is only 18MP so I'm not shy to crop away 10-15% in post to straighten and compose a shot to make it 100% presentable. It'll still be bigger than a 1DX pic ;D.

OSD

If I were in your position I would look at the price-difference between the teo bodies and think about what you could get with that money instead, like a flash or a lens. If the AF system is more valuable to you than that other item/items then get the 5D3. If it's not get the 6D + other item/items.


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## Niki (Nov 3, 2013)

the canon 5d mark IV might not have raw VIDEO…if you need that


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## Marsu42 (Nov 3, 2013)

StudentOfLight said:


> The 6D's AF-system is better than the 5D2 which has served pro-photographers well since 2008. The centre AF point is phenomenal



The 6d's af system is an improvement in terms of precision (see lensrentals on this), but otherwise that doesn't mean much ... I definitely wouldn't call the center point "phenomenal" with f2.8+ lenses but find it to be rather erratic with my 100L lens when trying to lock on low-contrast surfaces, that's because @f2.8 it's non-cross it and this really shows. Also of course focus & recompose induces a lot of problems because the outer points are so few and don't have f2.8 precision at all.



Niki said:


> the canon 5d mark IV might not have raw VIDEO…if you need that



I doubt if Canon will really remove the firmware hooks for Magic Lantern raw processing on the 5d4, it's a major sales factor and not everyone can afford a 1dc... the real danger is that the 2-3 people working on Magic Lantern raw will be busy with other projects in the future and there won't be a ML at all for the 5d4 (or 70d or 7d2, for that matter).


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

Thank you, all! 

Yes, I am planning on buying the 24-70 f 2.8 lens. (I have a 28-80 on my film camera now, and use the 2.8 for depth of field). I do most photojournalism work, so things (i.e. people) are generally moving around, but not with the speed of sports. 

The thought of being able to grab a shot truly quickly is mighty appealing. To me, there is nothing worse then that feeling of: attempting to focus, camera can't quite get it, I reframe a little (maybe go for a slightly more contrast area), refocus and hope the focus kicks in, camera still can't get it, I reset the focal point or my framing just a bit, again, try to refocus, etc. -- only to have lost the shot at this point, as the camera didn't respond more quickly. By then, I'm worried that trying focus, recompose will again mess with my composition/depth of field. 

I never use the A1 Servo, would make a difference? In other words, can you "fix" the sluggish AF by simply shooting in Servo?

My film camera is an A2E which has that old eye tracking control (where you look is where you focus). I know a lot of people didn't care for that, but for me, it has worked wonderfully, otherwise, I just use center-point focus, too. 

I need to learn more about the cross-type focusing, I've tried online and still don't get it entirely. My understanding is that if there isn't a cross point, it can be difficult to focus in that area. Because I am coming from a film camera, it's hard to know if a digital slr w/ fewer cross points will be any more difficult to focus then what I am used to now. I sort of get the feeling that digital technology, by it's nature, makes it more difficult to focus w/o a lot of cross-points (compared to plain old focusing w. film cameras). But I may be way off here. 

StudentofLight, that's helpful to hear that I should shoot a little wider. I'm not yet a "post" person. I like to take pictures and compose in the camera. And really don't care for sitting at computers. If I go w/ the 6, I'll take your advice, though. Thank you!

Marsu42, what do you mean that you "find it to be rather erratic with my 100L lens when trying to lock on low-contrast surfaces, that's because @f2.8 it's non-cross." I didn't realize the f top effected the cross points. (Oh, so much to learn!).

As for video, thank you, Niki. Thought it was RAW but I'll check. Unless I can get af on video, I'm going to mostly ignore the video for the most part, and use my old vid camera.

Noel


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## Marsu42 (Nov 3, 2013)

noel said:


> Marsu42, what do you mean that you "find it to be rather erratic with my 100L lens when trying to lock on low-contrast surfaces, that's because @f2.8 it's non-cross." I didn't realize the f top effected the cross points. (Oh, so much to learn!).



Indeed, this is a rather tricky problem with the 6d/5d3 af system... you have to differentiate between pattern detection and precision. Here's my layman explanation:

* pattern detection: a cross-type af point can detect horizontal (example: venetian blinds) and vertical lines (example: fence), and thus is more reliable to focus on low-contrast surface. On the 5d2/6d the outer af points are either horizontal *or* vertical and thus will fail more often - you need to focus on a contrast and then recompose.

* precision: some af points are not precise enough for the thin depth of field of f2.8+ lenses - such as the 5d2/6d outer points and some Rebels - this means that with a slower lens you'll never experience any problems (probably that's why Canon released the 24-70/4LIS as f4...), but with a fast lens you'll get more out of focus shots.

Here's the catch: The 5d2/6d centeral af point is non-cross (horizontal only) @f2.8, but cross @f5.6, meaning if it cannot focus with the f2.8 line it will fall back to the f5.6 cross. So for example shooting with the 100L wide open it'll be fine on contrasty objects, but I find myself getting more slight oof shots on tricky objects :-\


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 3, 2013)

Marsu42 is correct, and a good explanation of contrast AF.

I admit I was perhaps a little exuberant with my statement that the 6D's centre AF-point is "phenomenal". But in my post I did also recommend aiming at high-contrast areas to acquire focus. Anyway, if you aim either one of the cameras at a scene with insufficient contrast then both will fail to acquire focus.

To satisfy my own curiosity, I just did a focus speed test with the 100mm Macro in poor lighting conditions. I used a grey lens pounch from one of the L-lenses as the "low-contrast" target. I used a tripod and unchanged ambient lighting.

In my test the 6D centre AF-point focused in about 2.1 seconds. The 5D3 centre AF-point focused in about 3.4 seconds. Of course there the possibility to use expanded-AF acquisition on the the 5D3 (using 4 or 8 AF-assist points) in which case it took between 0.9-1.3 seconds to acquire focus.


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

This is an amazing explanation. Thank you so much. I can't believe it takes so many others, so long, to get to the same point, online (not here, other sites).

Sounds like if I am shooting with my 24-70, 2.8, as soon as I open up past 5.6 or go for a shallow depth of field, I may loose some of the sharp or fast focus on the 6D. Or, for that matter, I could run into a focus problem potentially anywhere (including the center point) depending on my depth of field or contrast of my subject? In other words, the focus on the 6D will work best if you use the center point and always focus on something above 5.6 and w/greater contrast?

When you refer to precision, are you also suggesting that even some of the cross-type points aren't as precise as others, and there are differences in precision between differently located cross-type points? Or, just between cross and non-cross?

Sounds like the reviews say the focus is okay in low light which confuses me, based on what you a re saying. But it's probably all relative (to the Nikon for example). Since I don't do a lot of super low light shooting, this isn't my biggest concern. 

I guess this leads me to think about two things: should I err on the side of the 5dmiii to avoid some of these issues and/or should I rethink my decision to buy a 24-70mm f 2.8 lens. (But I do love the 2.8 depth of field)?

StudentofLight, interesting test (and thank you!). I'm curious about why it look longer, originally, with the 5d3.

N


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

StudentofLight, one other question... When you used the expanded AF acquisition, I'm assuming you used more cross points around it? Does that get in the way, visually, of you composing your shot?

I can't thank you all enough for this help!

Noel


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## Marsu42 (Nov 3, 2013)

StudentOfLight said:


> I just did a focus speed test with the 100mm Macro in poor lighting conditions.



As in many other 6d tests this is worthless (sorry) if you don't specify the LV of the scene (you can calculate it from aperture/shutter/iso value) - the 5d3 is supposed to focus up to -2 LV, the 6d center up to -3 LV ... question is from which LV downwards is the 6d quicker to do so, even if it's somewhat brighter than -2LV.


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 3, 2013)

noel said:


> StudentofLight, one other question... When you used the expanded AF acquisition, I'm assuming you used more cross points around it? Does that get in the way, visually, of you composing your shot?



Noel, on the 5D3 you can choose the expanded AF to either 4 or 8 AF-points adjacent to the focus point that you have selected to assist with achieving focus. If the selected point struggles to focus then it tries to get focus from a neighboring AF-point. The Assist points could be either cross-type or basic depending on which point you select as the center.


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

Perfect, thanks. That's what I kinda thought. And you don't find all those points distracting/cover up the subject?

N


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

I think I've made my decision ??? (Is that a worried face?) ...Anyone want to weigh in on disks? Sandisk or Delkin?

Now, a quick bite and I'm off....

Will report back when I return.

Thank you all tremendously! 

Noel


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## bleephotography (Nov 3, 2013)

noel said:


> I think I've made my decision ??? (Is that a worried face?) ...Anyone want to weigh in on disks? Sandisk or Delkin?
> 
> Now, a quick bite and I'm off....
> 
> ...



I actually purchased a 6D only a few months ago, picked up the 5D Mark III a few weeks ago and now I'm in the process of selling the 6D. Reason being: the 5D's AF system is far superior, especially with fast primes, where focus-and-recompose with the center AF point will lead to focus shift. Either way, if you opt for the 5D you won't be disappointed, and if you go with the 6D you'll still have a very nice tool.

As for CF/SD cards, I've only used Lexar and SanDisk and never have I had a single issue. Lexar tends to run a little more costly, but their reliability is topnotch.


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

Hello,

I just returned with a brand spank'in new 5dmarkiii (perfect timing, great to hear, Bleephotography!) I am really happy. On the way to the store, I called a TV news editor friend to chat. When I told her what I was buying her reply was "Oh, yeh, that's the one all the reporters at the station use." 

I can't think you all enough. And Marsu42 and StudentofLight, w/o your help, I know I couldn't have asked nearly as good questions of the Canon sales rep. at the store. (It was rep. weekend at the store I bought the camera at).

Again thank you all so so much!! Now, off to decompress and play with the camera.

Noel


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## Marsu42 (Nov 3, 2013)

bleephotography said:


> I actually purchased a 6D only a few months ago, picked up the 5D Mark III a few weeks ago and now I'm in the process of selling the 6D. Reason being: the 5D's AF system is far superior, especially with fast primes



... and esp. with newer Canon zooms, your 24-70L2 would be wasted on a 6d since its enhanced af precision can only be used on 5d3/1dx.



noel said:


> I can't think you all enough. And Marsu42 and StudentofLight, w/o your help, I know I couldn't have asked nearly as good questions of the Canon sales rep. at the store. (It was rep. weekend at the store I bought the camera at).



Happy to hear it  now if I only also had to money to buy a 5d3 and not end up with a 6d


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

FWIW, I have been saving for a DSLR for probably twelve years (seriously). Putting a little away here and there. I'm a film devote and I never wanted something that would lessen that photography and image quality experience and force me to sit in front of a computer (for me at least, I know others have different opinions). But, I decided to take the leap now, as I desperately need it for work. It's getting embarrassing. 

So Marsu42, please don't feel badly. I literally have been socking the money away little by little. And as I think about it. I don't think I will close the savings account, I think I'll put $5 in it this week, just to get me started for the *next* DSLR. (If only I could do this with other things like say, a car, a house...).

Oh, and thanks for the info re: precision on the lens. While I was at the store, I asked the rep to talk to me about firmware for the lens.

Wishing you (and others) the very best on your photographic exploits. For my part, I have a huge learning curve ahead of me 

Noel


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## Marsu42 (Nov 3, 2013)

noel said:


> FWIW, I have been saving for a DSLR for probably twelve years (seriously). Putting a little away here and there. I'm a film devote and I never wanted something that would lessen that photography and image quality experience and force me to sit in front of a computer (for me at least, I know others have different opinions). But, I decided to take the leap now, as I desperately need it for work. It's getting embarrassing.



Sounds like if anyone deserves to have a 5d3, it's you  ... and be sure to use Magic Lantern esp. with 5d3 & video, they also have a nice helpful forum over there http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/


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## noel (Nov 3, 2013)

Thank you 

OMG, you have no idea how much I needed this in my life. (I have a disabled child and periodically things get more difficult -- like, this past week).

And don't worry, your turn will come! You are owed it, karma and all...

Setting up the camera and printer (did I mention I picked up a nice Canon "art" printer which is virtually free after the rebate), I am so happy. Really deeply happy.

I wasn't aware of Magic Lantern (until I just looked at it). I'm curious, is it legit? buggy? In other words, I always worry about third party downloads -- I don't want to mess with my new pristine camera...

N


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 3, 2013)

ML for the 5DIII is still in alpha. That's not as bad as it sounds - it's apparently quite stable. The issue is that installing it sets a 'bootflag' in the camera that cannot be removed (ML is working on it), and tells Canon that you installed ML. But there's no evidence that Canon cares about that or has denied service for it...yet.


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## noel (Nov 4, 2013)

Oh, okay. Thanks. I will keep my eyes on it. Can anyone suggest any other good forums to continue to learn more about my new camera? Everyone has been just great here - but I have a feeling I must be taking up "space" since I'm not discussing "rumors" anymore.

N


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## bleephotography (Nov 4, 2013)

noel said:


> Oh, okay. Thanks. I will keep my eyes on it. Can anyone suggest any other good forums to continue to learn more about my new camera? Everyone has been just great here - but I have a feeling I must be taking up "space" since I'm not discussing "rumors" anymore.
> 
> N



Canonrumors is much more than a rumors forum, despite what the name might lead you to believe. If you check out the forum index (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php) you'll find plenty of resources to discuss gear and/or share/view other members' images. In fact, if you do a search for "5D Mark III" you'll find quite a few posts regarding 5D Mark III stills and video. Otherwise, there are tons of books out there, many of which I own, that go through in depth about the new features and usability if you aren't looking for anything specific: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Mark-III-Experience-Photography-ebook/dp/B007RGWZVM/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1383532978&sr=8-13&keywords=canon+5d+mark+iii


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## dolina (Nov 4, 2013)

I think the Mark IV will be announced by 2016. Are you willing to wait that long?


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## Marsu42 (Nov 4, 2013)

noel said:


> I wasn't aware of Magic Lantern (until I just looked at it). I'm curious, is it legit? buggy? In other words, I always worry about third party downloads -- I don't want to mess with my new pristine camera...



Magic Lantern is for me the one reason I keep using Canon, even if Nikon is less expensive and arguably up on par or even "better" these days in a feature-per-dollar comparison. ML is a firmware addon that originated in the video community but has many features for stills shooting. It does have some "killer" features, here's what I use:

* raw histogram and zebras so you see if the shot is really overexposed, Canon histogram is only for jpeg
* auto iso function that also works with flash enabled and has a settable min. aperture in Tv
* helpful overlays in live view like focus peaking so you exactly see what is in focus
* dynamic range boost for up to 14 stops for video & stills for high dynamic range scenes
* up to 60 fps for raw stills for a short time, though at reduced resolution
* focus stacking for macro
* intervalometer for time lapses
* unlimited, automatic bracketing (though your 5d3 already has 7 brackets which should be enough)
* auto-ettr (expose to the right) for optimal exposure (less noise) and clean shadows

... and last not least ...

* 14-bit uncompressed raw video shooting which is a stunning ability for any dslr and makes a big difference for recovering shadows or high dynamic range scenes

Concerning stability: Yes, the 5d3 port is still labeled "alpha", but it's stable as far as there should be no chance to endanger your new camera. The very extreme and also unlikely thing that can potentially happen that the software freezes your camera, which means you simply have to take out the battery and re-insert it, problem solved. After getting to know your general 5d3 you should give it a try if you are the curious kind of person that like to experiment a bit.



noel said:


> Oh, okay. Thanks. I will keep my eyes on it. Can anyone suggest any other good forums to continue to learn more about my new camera? Everyone has been just great here - but I have a feeling I must be taking up "space" since I'm not discussing "rumors" anymore.



On the contrary, the forum title is misleading - the main page is about rumors, but the forum is about photography in general. There are always trashy fun "When will the 7d2 arrive" threads, but actually these rumors make you realize what your current camera does, doesn't and how to work around shortcomings. If you want to discuss technique or your pictures, just add to or open a thread in another subforum like "Canon general", "Lighting" or share your pictures in one of the existing threads.

I found this site very helpful for learning since there are a lot of people with experience and knowledge around who share it, and in contrast to other forums the tone is (nearly ) always nice and civil which makes the decisive difference to other forums I have looked at. Plus it's Canon only here, so there's less noise from threads you don't care about unlike in boards that cover all manufacturers.


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## Krob78 (Nov 4, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> ML for the 5DIII is still in alpha. That's not as bad as it sounds - it's apparently quite stable. The issue is that installing it sets a 'bootflag' in the camera that cannot be removed (ML is working on it), and tells Canon that you installed ML. But there's no evidence that Canon cares about that or has denied service for it...yet.



Thank you, I was wondering about that!


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## Krob78 (Nov 4, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> noel said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't aware of Magic Lantern (until I just looked at it). I'm curious, is it legit? buggy? In other words, I always worry about third party downloads -- I don't want to mess with my new pristine camera...
> ...



Thank you also, for all the ML info. It's good to know and I've been wondering about it's stability for awhile, I keep forgetting to ask! 

Is there a general period of time that passes before it comes out of the Alpha stage?

All the best,
Ken


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## renegade54 (Nov 4, 2013)

noel said:


> Oh, okay. Thanks. I will keep my eyes on it. Can anyone suggest any other good forums to continue to learn more about my new camera? Everyone has been just great here - but I have a feeling I must be taking up "space" since I'm not discussing "rumors" anymore.
> 
> N



Congratulations Noel!!!! Excellent choice!!!! I am excited for you!!!! And YES....I do have a recommendation for you as a new owner of the 5D3....I am also a new 5d3 owner, and honestly, it can be a bit intimidating. Even if you have the photography side of the equation handled, there is a ton of functionality packed into the 5D3 that you'll need to learn how to _use_ your camera before you can coax the images you see in your mind out of it. That is why I HIGHLY recommend getting this:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Mark-III-Experience-Photography-ebook/dp/B007RGWZVM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383605957&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+5d+mark+3+books

It is absolutely fantastic and I cannot recommend it highly enough. It is an e-book, but I am pretty certain all you need is an Amazon account and a kindle app for your laptop / PC / MAC what have you; I have a laptop and downloaded the kindle app to it and was off and running. The author takes you step by step through every set-up screen and explains everything so well this should be sold with EVERY 5D3 sold. I would be LOST without it. Considering the camera body cost $3,000 or more depending where you bought it, the $10 for this book is in my opinion the single biggest investment you can make in your new Camera. I hope you get it, and I just know you find it as indispensable as I do. 

Cheers.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 5, 2013)

Krob78 said:


> Is there a general period of time that passes before it comes out of the Alpha stage?



No, because alpha/beta/final is rather subjective or depending on the project type and reputation. The main "issue" making the 5d3 port "alpha" is that there are some features missing in comparison to the unified ml for the digic4 cameras. Also a couple of years ago ml was considered a "hack" to it was easy to use lower standards, but now the expectations are higher and thus the reluctancy on ML's side.

As for stability the dev working on this (Alex Dumitrache) is very concerned about it, so it will take quite a while for this to get the "final" label, it's a bit like 0.x->1.x version numbers in the OSS world. Also "final" implies that it won't crash, never, ever, and this is a bold statement given the very limited number of people testing all features and actually returning useful bug reports - for for the time being it seems 5d3/6d will keep being "alpha" with everybody using them anyway. Just don't use ML "nightly" released for weddings and such...


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## Krob78 (Nov 5, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Krob78 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a general period of time that passes before it comes out of the Alpha stage?
> ...



Well, my 5d3 is getting ready to head off to CPS for maintenance (stuck/hot/dead pixel issues), perhaps I'll give it a go after she comes back... Perhaps after the 1st of the year and a little more thought. The features are certainly intriguing if not tempting in some instances but I really want to know it's not going to hurt it at all... 

I never did install it on my 7d but heard lots of good feedback for the most part, so I may give it a go, as I said. Is there a website that I can watch for updates or news or any of that sort of thing regarding ML?


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## Marsu42 (Nov 5, 2013)

Krob78 said:


> Is there a website that I can watch for updates or news or any of that sort of thing regarding ML?


They have got a nice forum: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum ... look in the "new ports" section for updates on your camera, generally you will want to use the nightly releases since they include the latest features/fixes and are probably more stable than anything else.


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## noel (Nov 5, 2013)

Renegade 54, congrats to you, too and thank you for that suggestion! I'm so intimidated that right now, it's still sitting in the box starring at me. I keep making excuses to avoid jumping in. By the end of the week, I hope. I am absolutely going to check out the link/ebook.

Marsu42 and Krob78 thank you both for the ML information. I'm going to try to understand my Canon as is first, then I think I will make some ML selections. I love that it's available. Some of the possibilities sound great. Thank you for your personal list, as well.

And finally, I'm psyched to know this is not a "rumors only" site. Everyone has been so great, I want to stay 

Noel


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## Krob78 (Nov 7, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Krob78 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a website that I can watch for updates or news or any of that sort of thing regarding ML?
> ...



Thanks Marsu!


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