# I've got a feeling: EF 24/2.8, 28/2.8, 28/1.8, 35/2, 50/1.4, 50/1.8, 85/1.8...



## TW (Jan 13, 2012)

From the various rumors we've been hearing over the last few months, I'm getting the feeling that Canon is about to revamp their entire line of EF primes. 

Possibly all at once, even.

I just wonder if they'll turn them all into EF-S lenses, and keep EF mainly for L and specialty lenses from here on out?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 13, 2012)

I see and read most of the new patents, I get the feeling that Canon may come out with minor modifications to the lenses that will bring some improvements --- better coatings, faster AF, etc. But also improved manufacturing processes (read lower cost to manufacture, assemble, and test). And then, a higher selling price.

A big relevation is going to hit camera owners when they start using the new focusing tools that FoCal Pro offers, and I expect others to do this too. Some lenses focus very erratically, we have known this, but could not quantitfy it. Others are amazingly good. Now that a careful test can measure the focus accuracy and repeatability with a given camera body, we will soon see some of the popular lens testers start to publish data. It does require a test of several lenses from different manufacturing batches to really see if there is a common issue, but users may soon be able to submit them and a overall pictire of which lenses AF consistently and accurately will start to appear.

When I compared the same batch of primes and zooms on both my 5DMK II and my 7D, I found that they behaved almost identically on the two different bodies.


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## TW (Jan 13, 2012)

Specialty lenses being Macro, Tilt-Shift, DO, etc.


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## Fperez (Jan 13, 2012)

Improving those lenses would be good, some may require some "build" improvements, especially the 50 f/1.8 and hopefully get better AF systems.

Also, making those lenses EF-S would be a stupid / very negative move as many people with EF mount only cameras use these lenses; say 50 1.4, 1.8, 85 1.8... and i see many advanced/pros using the 50 1.4 for example. It would also mean a loss for Canon because they would be losing the sales of these lenses from all the people who own EF mount cameras.

I simply don't see the point.

Seeing new versions of the lenses won't hurt though


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 13, 2012)

There are a range of camera bodies to fit users with different needs and budgets. These lenses were all designed in an era when that entire range of cameras was full frame, i.e. film. Today, FF cameras from Canon cost $2K and up, and the quality (and thus, consumer popularity) of zoom lenses is an order of magnitude higher than what it was when these EF primes came out. I doubt we'll see the cheaper EF primes updated as anything other than EF-S, and very few of those, probably only one 'normal' prime, maybe one wide prime. They _might_ update the 28/1.8, 50/1.4, and 85/1.8 as EF, as Mt. Spokane suggested - newer coatings, better AF (for the 50/1.4), and most importantly, cheaper manufacturing. Of course, those new lenses would be more expensive, meaning more profit for Canon. But, I expect their priority going forward will be on L series lenses and EF-S lenses, as it has been for the past few years.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 13, 2012)

i'm looking forward to a 50 1.4 update

i cant see why they would change them to ef-s it cuts down potential sales but EF mounts can be used on both and if you want an equivalent EF-s focal length then do the math and get the corresponding lens, EF-S only primes dont make any sense i'm not sure why people keep banging on about it. perhaps a dedicated EF-S ultra wide prime to cover the end that gets lost in translation makes sense but why bother with an ef-s 50 or 85 etc


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## branden (Jan 14, 2012)

IMO, the most useful lens missing from everyone's line up is an EF-S 18mm f/1.8 lens.


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## briansquibb (Jan 14, 2012)

How do we know that Canon intend to support APS-C in prosumer bodies in the long term when the industry trend is to have APS-C in P&S and other entry level consumer cameras? If there is no long term future for high end APS-C the Canon are unlikely to release high end lens especially for them - perhaps that is why they haven't already .....


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 14, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> How do we know that Canon intend to support APS-C in prosumer bodies in the long term when the industry trend is to have APS-C in P&S and other entry level consumer cameras? If there is no long term future for high end APS-C the Canon are unlikely to release high end lens especially for them - perhaps that is why they haven't already .....



+1 

Agreed

Canon does have a lot of APS-C bodies in circulation, and sales is going strong. so there is momentum. However, at some point, that will change, and some new standard will phase in. 

The only question is when. 5 - 10 -50 years? I have no guess. 

I have no reasonable expectation that EF lenses will be in production in the future either. Things do change. That doesn't stop me from buying them, because I use them now.

Canon is a huge company, very conservative and slow to change, but when they finally do, they do it big, and tend to be successful more than they are wrong.


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## Robert Welch (Jan 14, 2012)

I would agree that there is very little sense in making a wide variety of EF-S prime lenses, other than maybe a 30mm ~f/1.8 which would serve as a good standard focal length lens on APS-C cameras (maybe an 17-18mm EF-S would be popular). Otherwise, seems to me most APS-C camera users will be zoom users. It's the FF users who really get the most benefit from primes, and therefore would probably be the most likely to invest in primes. If Canon focused on making just EF-S prime lenses, it would probably not be nearly as profitable as making EF primes.


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## Axilrod (Jan 14, 2012)

branden said:


> IMO, the most useful lens missing from everyone's line up is an EF-S 18mm f/1.8 lens.



The wider the lens the tougher it is to give it a large aperture.....Take the Zeiss 18mm f/3.5, It's one of the few lenses they make that's slower than f/2.8. 

So while an 18mm f/1.8 may be possible, it would be very expensive and definitely not an EF-S lens. Closest thing I've seen was the Sigma 20mm f/1.8 and it sucked.


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## Axilrod (Jan 14, 2012)

TW said:


> From the various rumors we've been hearing over the last few months, I'm getting the feeling that Canon is about to revamp their entire line of EF primes.
> 
> Possibly all at once, even.
> 
> I just wonder if they'll turn them all into EF-S lenses, and keep EF mainly for L and specialty lenses from here on out?



I agree to an extent, but not necessarily ALL of those.. The 50mm f/1.4 is a 20+ year old design and so is the 50mm f/1.8, and its such a standard FL I'd be very surprised if we didn't see a Mark II soon. I don't think they'll update all of the 20mm range lenses you mentioned, but I think the rest are somewhat possible. 

People seem to be buying primes more and more, and these lenses L-counterparts are much more expensive, not updating them for the new breed of DSLR shooters would be foolish.


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## Ellen Schmidtee (Jan 14, 2012)

I don't see the sense in a whole set of EF-S primes.

The equivalent of 135mm on FF would be 85mm on APS-C, and there's a market for EF 85mm.
The equivalent of 85mm on FF would be 50mm on APS-C, and there's a market for EF 50mm.
The equivalent of 50mm on FF would be 32mm on APS-C, and photographers could go for 35mm (55mm prime was often sold as prime normal) or 28mm (~1mm longer than the diagonal for Canon's APS-C), and there's a market for both.
The equivalent of 35mm on FF would be 22mm on APS-C, and Canon already makes an EF 20mm.

Wider than that, Canon has no cheap primes, and I gather a crop sensor makes it easer to produce wide primes.


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## Canon-F1 (Jan 14, 2012)

TW said:


> I just wonder if they'll turn them all into EF-S lenses, and keep EF mainly for L and specialty lenses from here on out?



that would be a very intelligent idea. :


ps: that was ironic..


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## traveller (Jan 14, 2012)

Until Canon has a full frame body that is under $2000 at release, there will still be a market for reasonable priced prime lenses. There are people stating that full frame users are those who derive the greatest benefit from fast primes, I beg to differ; if you are struggling to achieve shallow depth of field due to the smaller sensor on APS-C cameras then fast primes make even more sense: look at their popularity on the 'mirrorless' cameras. 

That said, I don't think that straight replacements for the old EF primes is the way to go. An ideal lineup would be a fast (i.e. f/2 or faster) 15mm, 22mm and 30mm EF-S in the $600-$700 price bracket (like the new Fuji XF lenses). Before everyone moans that they should be EF mount, there are design advantages that come with the reduced coverage and back focus distance of EF-S when it comes to the wide-normal range.


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## unfocused (Jan 14, 2012)

I must be missing something.

Is this based simply on the age of most prime lenses? Because clearly there is zero relationship between how old a lens is and how often Canon decides to update the lens.

Prime EF-S lenses? Canon currently has a grand total of 1 EF-S prime lens and that's a macro lens. It seems to me that Canon has placed much more emphasis in the last few years on improving the performance of zoom lenses rather than primes (think 70-200 f2.8 vs. 200mm f2.8 prime).

APS-C vs. "Full Frame" -- Let's see, Canon now has five APS-C cameras. They have two "Full Frame" cameras and just killed off their APS-H camera. Fuji just introduced their top-of-the-line interchangeable lens rangefinder in APS-C. Where is the evidence that "full frame" will swallow up APS-C? Or is this just "my sensor is bigger than your sensor" foolishness? 

Fast primes and/or fast zooms? I wish. But unfortunately, it is pretty clear that Canon's strategy is to put less emphasis on the speed of its glass and more emphasis on high ISO sensors. 

I'm not suggesting that Canon won't update their prime lens lineup. I would agree that we might see some minor updates and refreshing of the line up to take advantage of changes in technology, but I don't see Canon investing a massive amount of capital in their prime lens lineup.


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## TW (Feb 6, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> TW said:
> 
> 
> > From the various rumors we've been hearing over the last few months, I'm getting the feeling that Canon is about to revamp their entire line of EF primes.
> ...




...And we're starting today with the 20mm range...


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## wickidwombat (Feb 6, 2012)

I am really not sure wht people are carrying on about EF-s primes it just doesnt make business sense to make EF-S primes, there would be no size/weight savings to speak of and the EF range can be used on both EFa nd EF-s bodies you just have to use different lenses to get the desired focal length on EF-S. It's hardly a matter of APS-C vs FF if anything FF miss out because they cant use the 17-55 f2.8 IS


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## marekjoz (Feb 6, 2012)

If Could Canon would kill APS-C DSLR line in the future would they replace it with mirrorless line and make new mount EF/EF-S comaptible? Does it make any sense?


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## briansquibb (Feb 7, 2012)

unfocused said:


> APS-C vs. "Full Frame" -- Let's see, Canon now has five APS-C cameras. They have two "Full Frame" cameras and just killed off their APS-H camera. Fuji just introduced their top-of-the-line interchangeable lens rangefinder in APS-C. _Where is the evidence that "full frame" will swallow up APS-C?_ Or is this just "my sensor is bigger than your sensor" foolishness?
> 
> Fast primes and/or fast zooms? I wish. But unfortunately, it is pretty clear that Canon's strategy is to put less emphasis on the speed of its glass_* and more emphasis on high ISO sensors. * _



I think you answered that one for yourself 8) 8) 8) 8)


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## elflord (Feb 7, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I am really not sure wht people are carrying on about EF-s primes it just doesnt make business sense to make EF-S primes, there would be no size/weight savings to speak of and the EF range can be used on both EFa nd EF-s bodies you just have to use different lenses to get the desired focal length on EF-S. It's hardly a matter of APS-C vs FF if anything FF miss out because they cant use the 17-55 f2.8 IS



It makes sense with wider lenses. It's much cheaper to make a fast 35mm for APS-C than one that covers a full frame sensor. The 50mm f/1.4 is $300 or so, there's no reason a 35mm /1.4 couldn't also be in the same price ballpark (except they wouldn't want to take sales from the L lens)


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## jseliger (Feb 7, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> These lenses were all designed in an era when that entire range of cameras was full frame, i.e. film. Today, FF cameras from Canon cost $2K and up, and the quality (and thus, consumer popularity) of zoom lenses is an order of magnitude higher than what it was when these EF primes came out. I doubt we'll see the cheaper EF primes updated as anything other than EF-S, and very few of those, probably only one 'normal' prime, maybe one wide prime.



I don't see why many people would want wide-to-normal angle primes at f / 2.8, when there are zooms with virtually indistinguishable image quality at f / 2.8, or, alternately, faster f / 1.4 – 2.0 primes for slightly more money. Something like a 28mm f / 2.8 sits in an awkward middle ground that I can't imagine being hugely popular, given the other options. 

Personally, I'd like to see a 28 - 35mm f / 2 for ~$200, a la the Nikon 35mm. I'd use it in lieu of the 50 f / 1.8, which I like but find too narrow for a lot of what I do.


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## noodles (Feb 7, 2012)

jseliger said:


> Personally, I'd like to see a 28 - 35mm f / 2 for ~$200, a la the Nikon 35mm. ............



I paid for my current 35mm f/2 around 245 euro
Maybe it will drop in price if a 35mm f/2 IS will be introduced. On the other hand, they may take it out of the market. With IS I am sure the price will go up.


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## moreorless (Feb 7, 2012)

As far as EF-S goes my guess would be that part of the reason for the 24mm and 28mm's being revamped is to potentially sell them to crop users as 40-45mm standards. Add in IS aswell and you have the potental for a very compact and versatile setup on a Rebel.


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## jseliger (Feb 7, 2012)

moreorless said:


> As far as EF-S goes my guess would be that part of the reason for the 24mm and 28mm's being revamped is to potentially sell them to crop users as 40-45mm standards. Add in IS aswell and you have the potental for a very compact and versatile setup on a Rebel.



At f / 2.8? That's so slow: in most circumstances outside of landscapes, I suspect most photographers would rather have the Canon 28mm f / 1.8 or Sigma 30mm f / 1.4, shoot at 2 – 2.4, and, if people are involved, increase the shutter speed.

I posited this elsewhere, but perhaps Canon is using these two lenses as "test run" to see if people really value IS and will pay substantially more for it.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 7, 2012)

Good Call, the first ones are here. They likely use that new patent that reduces lens abberations, its a form of diffractive optics, resin (plasti) and able to vary thickness radially much more than a ground lens. This has been mentioned in many of the recent patents, so much, that you could see it coming.

It also gives them a excuse to raise prices. adding IS is expensive, so the high price should be expected.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 8, 2012)

TW said:


> From the various rumors we've been hearing over the last few months, I'm getting the feeling that Canon is about to revamp their entire line of EF primes.
> 
> Possibly all at once, even.
> 
> I just wonder if they'll turn them all into EF-S lenses, and keep EF mainly for L and specialty lenses from here on out?



wow, good call


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## moreorless (Feb 8, 2012)

jseliger said:


> moreorless said:
> 
> 
> > As far as EF-S goes my guess would be that part of the reason for the 24mm and 28mm's being revamped is to potentially sell them to crop users as 40-45mm standards. Add in IS aswell and you have the potental for a very compact and versatile setup on a Rebel.
> ...



Landscapes are going to be part of most peoples general purpose shooting I'd guess plus with the Sigma your looking at a lens that weighs twice as much.

In todays market with decent high ISO and mirrorless options the worth of primes has I'd say become more about space saving.

If anything else follows I'd guess it will be the 35mm f/2 and 50mm 1.4 rather than any of the long/more specialist lenses.


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## Ellen Schmidtee (Feb 8, 2012)

moreorless said:


> In todays market with decent high ISO and mirrorless options the worth of primes has I'd say become more about space saving.



I bought a 5Dmk2, rather than some APS-C or m43 or whatever, because I care about low light performance more than I care about equipment size & weight.

I care more about what I can get out of the equipment I have now than what I could get out of the equipment I might have in a couple of years.

In other words, I'd rather have a 1-2 stops faster lens now (and for the years in which I'll own the lens) rather than another 1-2 stops cleaner body in two years, which would perform even better with faster lens.


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## ejenner (Feb 9, 2012)

I love IS. I wish my 17-40 had IS, and would pay a lot extra for it.

But these? Nah. I would want either a relatively cheaper f4 IS or a f1.4 and I'd go without IS assuming they had substantially better IQ than any of the zooms in this range.

I'm thinking they are primarily for video on a crop sensor.

Also no-one has really seemed to mention it, but 24 and 28mm seem really close together. Is this just becasue they were designed similarly, so canon thought 'what the heck, we might as well make both'?

Or is is more 24 is a well liked FL on FF and 28 is closer to 50mm on crop? 

No next we should get a 50mm IS lens for FF video.


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## TW (Feb 20, 2012)

**UPDATE: Well, I think my worry that Canon would move away from ES primes towards EF-S appears to have been unfounded. Thank goodness!


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