# Direct Flash - How to make it useful?



## RLPhoto (Sep 10, 2012)

I can never get good direct flash, how do you get decent images like the one below.

http://photos.posh24.com/p/737011/z/david_letterman/the_most_memorable_celebrity_quotes_from_2009.jpg

I like off-camera and very competent in that, but direct flash I never could quite grasp it. 

Tips?


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 10, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I can never get good direct flash, how do you get decent images like the one below.
> 
> http://photos.posh24.com/p/737011/z/david_letterman/the_most_memorable_celebrity_quotes_from_2009.jpg
> 
> ...


Without seeing the EXIF data and what sort of like it was taken in you don't know. My guess just looking at it is that's not a full on flash for the light source but more for the dot in the eye and removing some shadows. That's just my guess though.


----------



## Ryan708 (Sep 10, 2012)

gotta have one of those plastic thingies that cost 70 bucks and resemble a tupperware container a-top of the flash! Wish I invented those things! But yeah, Im surprised you bow down to that shot, as I bow down to the work I have seen you post!


----------



## Ryan708 (Sep 10, 2012)

The catchlight in her eye is to the left a bit, (makes sence with a portrait shot, tipping the camera and all) so maybe that slight sidelighting helps. She seems to be a decent bit away from the background too, makes her pop a little more. Plus she is a celeb, in full make-up 24/7


----------



## wickidwombat (Sep 10, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I can never get good direct flash, how do you get decent images like the one below.
> 
> http://photos.posh24.com/p/737011/z/david_letterman/the_most_memorable_celebrity_quotes_from_2009.jpg
> 
> ...



that shot is with a ring flash notice the lack of shadow on the face so its very bright and alive also look closely at the catch lights in the eyes, i have a rayflash that pops onto the 580 ex or exii to do this its light and portable and gives good results. a ring flash gives a much more different look to a straight up hotshoe mounted blast


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 10, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I can never get good direct flash, how do you get decent images like the one below.
> ...



Neat. I'll have to order one soon but, Still...

Any tips on direct flash? Like this one looks to be a speedlite straight on to me.

http://photos.posh24.com/p/737009/z/david_letterman/the_most_memorable_celebrity_quotes_from_2009.jpg

I was recently thrust into a situation with no other option but direct flash, and it wasn't as smooth as I would have liked it. I'm not implying these are the greatest photos but they're passable.


----------



## CharlieB (Sep 10, 2012)

The distance is longer than you might expect, the lens longer than you might expect. The perspective is very "flat" or "compressed". Not sure if its a "ring" flash, but the flash is almost on axis, very very close to the axis of the lens, just barely above it. There was no other modifier used. The under-chin shadow is abrupt... hence no modifier.

Truth be told, some of the nicest direct flash ever, was with that awkward contraption on the old "283", which let you mount a Kodak grey card's white side as a soft reflector. It worked.


----------



## studio1972 (Sep 11, 2012)

I think these shots just look good because the subjects are attractive people. I doubt any diffuser was used.


----------



## wickidwombat (Sep 11, 2012)

well the second person is not attractive 

another thing to be super aware of when shooting flash at events is the flash balance with ambient
if you balance your flash well then you will get very nice results if the exposure is not balanced the flash will look far too harsh ie bunny in headlights (if this happens then check the flash is in ettl and dial in some negative flash exposure compensation on the flash itself) or the flash looks too weak if this happens in ettl dial in some + flash exposure compensation.

rule of thumb if the ambient is darker than the subject dial in negative flash
if the ambient is brighter than the subject dial in positive flash

just practice with a subject set ettl and in a range of light conditions take a series of shots from -3 to +3 and see the results once you understand this principle its pretty easy


----------



## dirtcastle (Sep 11, 2012)

I've also struggled with this. I think metering and exposure are critical to getting good shots with on-camera flash. Whenever possible, I think on-camera flash works best when used to fill in shadows and not as the primary light source. The only exception is when you can bounce the light off nearby surfaces and diffuse the light. 

With regard to flash toys, I don't think there is a silver bullet. All of the various manipulators seem to have their pluses and minuses. I've used cards, diffusers, bouncers, etc. Like most photographers, I have a flash toy graveyard. 

I've also looked at ringflashes, but I feel like they are one-trick ponies (and the good ones are expensive). I wouldn't even call a ringflash "on-camera" because it's about as cumbersome as a tripod, imo.


----------



## wickidwombat (Sep 11, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> I've also struggled with this. I think metering and exposure are critical to getting good shots with on-camera flash. Whenever possible, I think on-camera flash works best when used to fill in shadows and not as the primary light source. The only exception is when you can bounce the light off nearby surfaces and diffuse the light.
> 
> With regard to flash toys, I don't think there is a silver bullet. All of the various manipulators seem to have their pluses and minuses. I've used cards, diffusers, bouncers, etc. Like most photographers, I have a flash toy graveyard.
> 
> I've also looked at ringflashes, but I feel like they are one-trick ponies (and the good ones are expensive). I wouldn't even call a ringflash "on-camera" because it's about as cumbersome as a tripod, imo.



the rayflash is seriously good, its light takes 2 second to take off and put on if you want to change to bounce flash, i just keep it stashed in my shoulder bag so its on hand should i want to go there. Not the best light to hit older people with though. there are lots of cheap copies around which i have not tried however i can recommend the genuine ray flash i'll dig out some pics


----------



## dirtcastle (Sep 11, 2012)

@wickidwombat I looked at both the Rayflash and the Orbis ring flash. Those two were the most tempting for me. But I felt like they would probably find their way to the graveyard. I don't shoot glamour shots for a living, so I have the option not to walk around town with a giant piece of plastic around my camera. I'm much more inclined to just wait until I have the money for some real studio gear like Alien Bees. For me, a ring flash is studio gear.


----------



## TexasBadger (Sep 11, 2012)

Definitely not a ring flash. If it was the catchlight in the eye would be a circle like a white doughnut.


----------



## dirtcastle (Sep 11, 2012)

Sorry, a bit off-topic...

Alien Bees Ringflash
http://www.paulcbuff.com/abr800.php


----------



## CharlieB (Sep 11, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> Sorry, a bit off-topic...
> 
> Alien Bees Ringflash
> http://www.paulcbuff.com/abr800.php



Actually.... a lot of ringflashes let you fire half/half at any variability from full to various ratios per side. If the photographer had one side turned off... the catchlight might just look like that.

And... there are some "macro lights" that are not even round, but a pair of rectangles mounted very close to the lens axis.

OR... it might be a rig that the photographer came up with himself (that NEVER happens right?!!!?).

Situation is the same - its a flash mounted very close to the lens axis, being half a ring, one rectangle, whatever....


----------



## dirtcastle (Sep 11, 2012)

This is popular on red carpets...






CB Mini-RC
http://www.custombrackets.com/cb-mini-rc.html


----------



## drjlo (Sep 15, 2012)

CharlieB said:


> OR... it might be a rig that the photographer came up with himself (that NEVER happens right?!!!?).
> 
> Situation is the same - its a flash mounted very close to the lens axis, being half a ring, one rectangle, whatever....



Heh. For example, I just rigged up this beauty-dishesque reflector to be used with speedlite's wide angle panel deployed, mostly in order to improve on-camera flash. 




SAM_0077a by drjlo1, on Flickr

If space allows, this bracket-mounted real beauty dish, for closer portraits.




SAM_0081A by drjlo1, on Flickr


----------



## dlleno (Sep 15, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> I've also struggled with this. I think metering and exposure are critical to getting good shots with on-camera flash. Whenever possible, I think on-camera flash works best when used to fill in shadows and not as the primary light source. The only exception is when you can bounce the light off nearby surfaces and diffuse the light.
> 
> With regard to flash toys, I don't think there is a silver bullet. All of the various manipulators seem to have their pluses and minuses. I've used cards, diffusers, bouncers, etc. Like most photographers, I have a flash toy graveyard.



+1 on that. the first thing to go in my graveyard was a particular piece of tupperware that works good as a bare bulb converter. it is marketed with true but incomplete information and i now use another more convinient and less expensive solution.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 15, 2012)

dlleno said:


> dirtcastle said:
> 
> 
> > I've also struggled with this. I think metering and exposure are critical to getting good shots with on-camera flash. Whenever possible, I think on-camera flash works best when used to fill in shadows and not as the primary light source. The only exception is when you can bounce the light off nearby surfaces and diffuse the light.
> ...



Are you talking about the gary fong for what you got rid of or those really tiny translucent pieces of plastic that you put over the head to diffuse it? What'd you go with?


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 15, 2012)

Ok CR users, I bought a Wing light for my flashes. I liked the idea and will attempt to remember to post here about it when I receive it.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 15, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> Ok CR users, I bought a Wing light for my flashes. I liked the idea and will attempt to remember to post here about it when I receive it.


Wow that's pretty expensive for what it seems to be. I'll be interested to see how it works out for you.


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 15, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Ok CR users, I bought a Wing light for my flashes. I liked the idea and will attempt to remember to post here about it when I receive it.
> ...



Not much more expensive that the Tupperware, or other diffusers.


----------



## dlleno (Sep 15, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> dlleno said:
> 
> 
> > dirtcastle said:
> ...



I found that the gf was over marketed and in the situations I was faced with it didnt' provide near the benefit that the videos show, which of course (what they didn't emphasize) had plenty of reflective surfaces and studio like conditions in that regard. the chief shortcoming is that the device itself does not enlarge the light source which of course diffusers don't do. 

for a bare bulb diffuser I ended up with the stofen omnibounce cause its just a lot more convinient. 

all in all, the folks at lumiquest and strobist are among those that give the straightest and most helpful information so you can taylor your strobe utilization to fit the need.


----------



## jonathan7007 (Sep 15, 2012)

First I have to say I *loved* the pie plate! Did you patent that or can I try it too? Super. Of course, at a wedding I shoot at a high fee I might hesitate, but maybe the crazy scientist persona would carry the day. I really do think it would make good light, and I would add maybe a stofen or something that caused a little light to be coming out sideways into the aluminum. something just 1/2-inch high so no higher than the projection of the pie-plate rim. I will search your flickr stream for examples shot with this.

Anyway....

I agree with the practicality votes here (ring light in the bag at an event doesn't seem workable except for times I have an assistant.) But I bought, cheap, one of these 6x9" (approx) softboxes for my 580EX that has a lower shape to allow the front 580 sensor to see the scene in front of it. Velcro attachment to Velcro pads already glued to neck of the strobe. Folds flat in the bag. Nicer light. Some loss of range, for sure. There is a thicker piece of the diffuser right in the middle to soften the output in the direct line of aim. I was going to hunt for an image but look on eBay or call your local pro store.

Pie plate beauty dish. LOVE IT!

jonathan7007


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 15, 2012)

jonathan7007 said:


> First I have to say I *loved* the pie plate! Did you patent that or can I try it too? Super. Of course, at a wedding I shoot at a high fee I might hesitate, but maybe the crazy scientist persona would carry the day. I really do think it would make good light, and I would add maybe a stofen or something that caused a little light to be coming out sideways into the aluminum. something just 1/2-inch high so no higher than the projection of the pie-plate rim. I will search your flickr stream for examples shot with this.
> 
> Anyway....
> 
> ...



Yeah I just bought one of those small softboxes off ebay for like $2.90 including shipping. Can't beat that. If I don't like it then whatever.

@RLPhoto, I bought my "tupperware" for $30 with free shipping so that's twice the price. I agree the "tupperware" looks weird but that other thing looks even stranger. It looks like it's just paper on the ends. However I would think if you don't have a ceiling to bounce off that would work better than the tupperware. As I said I just bought an on camera softbox. We'll see how well that works for situations where there's no wall to bounce off of.


----------



## dlleno (Sep 15, 2012)

the thing about light toys and graveyards is that you must first understand both your needs and the nature of light beore you select the tool. light travels in straight lines so no amount of diffusion will soften the light coming from the strobe itself. a controlled combination of direct vs reflective light is better accomplished with a bounce or partial bounce device insread of tupoerware imho.


----------



## jonathan7007 (Sep 16, 2012)

Sure, I have the same graveyard! But the genius of a pie plate is that it doesn't go into the graveyard. 

It goes into the Recycle Bin. 

I am so trying this. Genius. Someone invite me to a party where the guests have a sense of humor. I do believe the pictures will come out well because at the right party people will be smiling at the rig they are facing. 

This may come off like sarcasm but it's not.

jonathan7007


----------



## DianeK (Sep 16, 2012)

jonathan7007 said:


> I am so trying this. Genius. Someone invite me to a party where the guests have a sense of humor. I do believe the pictures will come out well because at the right party people will be smiling at the rig they are facing.
> jonathan7007



I've got to try this too...it's one of those "why didn't I think of that?" head-slaps.
Diane


----------



## Viggo (Sep 16, 2012)

Has someone even mentioned GELS here? I find that color balance often is the giveaway when using direct flash. You can get away with flat light and harsh shadows more than a dark yellow background. And as pointed out by others, balancing your flash with ambient is key. Have the same light and same focal for a subject shot with flash with background 2 stops under and then two stops over makes for two VERY different pictures.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 16, 2012)

dlleno said:


> the thing about light toys and graveyards is that you must first understand both your needs and the nature of light beore you select the tool. light travels in straight lines so no amount of diffusion will soften the light coming from the strobe itself. a controlled combination of direct vs reflective light is better accomplished with a bounce or partial bounce device insread of tupoerware imho.


And what is a bounce device? Obviously ceilings and walls are your best bounce devices as they'll always be bigger than what you can get on a camera. In which case the tupperware works pretty. Don't get me wrong it's far from perfect and I'm always looking for alternatives but it's the best I've found so far. One thing I will say is that I've tested just shooting the straight flash up into a ceiling vs with the tupperware and I liked the look of the tupperware better. But one advantage of shooting directly off the ceiling is the balance in light level between near objects and far objects is improved somewhat since less light is being directed straight forward. For this reason I'm looking at trying out this technique some more.


----------



## dlleno (Sep 16, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> dlleno said:
> 
> 
> > the thing about light toys and graveyards is that you must first understand both your needs and the nature of light beore you select the tool. light travels in straight lines so no amount of diffusion will soften the light coming from the strobe itself. a controlled combination of direct vs reflective light is better accomplished with a bounce or partial bounce device insread of tupoerware imho.
> ...



by "bounce device" I mean a gadget that you put on the camera. sometimes the fong is great for this -- I've used one in a small room for example, with white walls . fantastic, because it really didn't work as a bounce device per se it worked as a bare bulb diffuser, which spreads the light around everywhere including behind me, where it could reflect off of a wall which became a huge light source. a free softbox if you will!. So when you need a bare bulb diffuser, the fongs are great,. otherwise you are just wasting light by throwing it in directions that won't ever reach the subject in a useful way. 

a "bounce device" is something (to me) that can control the light; just just spread it around in all directions. a directional bounce device is perhaps a better term. with these you can control the ratio of light directed forward versus upward.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 16, 2012)

dlleno said:


> a "bounce device" is something (to me) that can control the light; just just spread it around in all directions. a directional bounce device is perhaps a better term. with these you can control the ratio of light directed forward versus upward.


Gotcha. That makes a lot more sense. I would agree with you there. I have the feeling that a lot of times the tupperware does waste a lot of light if you aren't in a room that can provide adequate bounce. Hence why I just decided to buy one of those on camera soft boxes, although I don't have much faith in it being nearly as good but who knows maybe I'll be surprised. In the end there's no magical solution for on camera flash. You can only go so big with your diffuser so unless you have walls to bounce off of you're kind of out of luck.


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 18, 2012)

I received my wing light today. They're are a few things I will have to tweak on it but otherwise its the best direct flash I've ever seen.

Will post later when I get some time behind it.


----------



## kbmelb (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm a little late chiming in but, the photo in the OG post is not a ring light it is actually the light produced by the CB Mini someone else posted. It almost does what a ring does except no halo and just a fine shadow to one side. See Terry Richardson's work.

This has become en vogue. It is how T-Rich shoots everything.


----------



## dirtcastle (Sep 19, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I received my wing light today. They're are a few things I will have to tweak on it but otherwise its the best direct flash I've ever seen.
> 
> Will post later when I get some time behind it.



I checked this out and it looks promising! Definitely keep us posted.


----------



## DianeK (Sep 19, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I received my wing light today. They're are a few things I will have to tweak on it but otherwise its the best direct flash I've ever seen.
> 
> Will post later when I get some time behind it.



That was fast - looking forward to your assessment and "tweaks"
Diane


----------



## dlleno (Sep 19, 2012)

This is an interesting product. The wing light, at least, addresses one issue that the fong'alizer doesn't -- the size of the light source: Well at least in one dimension  RL please take some portraits outdoors! I'd like to see at least the 'horizontal light wrap" capabilities compared to direct flash when there are NO reflective surfaces. If you get close enough to the subject, the horizontal light will be large but the vertical light will still be a point source. that should produce interesting results.

the thing about any device that is small but claims to produce big light is that they all depend on other reflective surfaces -- and this one is no exception. look at the product video and note that in every example shoot there is a plethora of wonderful white reflective surfaces that would produce bare bulb heaven for even the lowly stofen omnibounce. A hallway with close walls and ceiling, for example, as shown in the product slideshow, will make most any diffuser look good. Personally, bouncing off of the floor seems odd to me, as not many floors are the right color and not many models/subjects look good when lighted from below. Typically, ceilings and walls would make better light sources. 

However, if you are in a situation where you do NOT have viable reflective walls, I would expect the Wing to assist with the horizontal size of the light source -- like an event where the room is large, walls are too far away, the ceiling is at a reasonable height and you can get close enough to the subject so that the Wing appears "big". the other advantage I can see is that the Wing would tend to increase the size of the ceiling light source. how much of a practical dvantage, compared to a bare bulb diffuser, is not immediately clear. 

Thanks RL; show us some photos!


----------



## revup67 (Sep 21, 2012)

> And what is a bounce device? Obviously ceilings and walls are your best bounce devices as they'll always be bigger than what you can get on a camera. In which case the tupperware works pretty. Don't get me wrong it's far from perfect and I'm always looking for alternatives but it's the best I've found so far. One thing I will say is that I've tested just shooting the straight flash up into a ceiling vs with the tupperware and I liked the look of the tupperware better. But one advantage of shooting directly off the ceiling is the balance in light level between near objects and far objects is improved somewhat since less light is being directed straight forward. For this reason I'm looking at trying out this technique some more.



This is a great thread..glad I chimed in. The pie plate was ingenious and just checked I've got about 5 or six I am finagling from the wife. No baking this weekend  This might seem obvious to most but just in case, after watching a Joe McNally video recently he points out only to use a white wall to avoid any color cast. Didn't see any mention thouhgt just in case for newbies. While shooting a rock band the other day I was planning on using some wall or ceiling bounce for more light fill. Got to the club and all the walls were "vampire blood red" in color. That ended that thought process. Disappointing to say the least as it was bare flash or high ISO the whole evening,


----------



## jVillaPhoto (Sep 21, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I received my wing light today. They're are a few things I will have to tweak on it but otherwise its the best direct flash I've ever seen.
> 
> Will post later when I get some time behind it.



Looked into these and they seem pretty nice, dying to see some sample photos of it!


----------



## Razor2012 (Sep 26, 2012)

Picked up the Gary Fong Lightshere and have used it a cpl of times. It's a good diffuser when using the 600RT shoe mounted.


----------

