# Airtravel experts



## 7enderbender (Dec 31, 2011)

Hello everyone,

Sorry to stick this here under EOS Bodies, but I couldn't find a better place. There have been some recent discussions here around airtravel and carry-on regulations.

I'll have to go from the North East US to Europe in the summer (and back of course) and I'm trying to plan ahead a bit on what airline to pick, which connection flights/airports to pick in Europe and what bag/case/backpack to get that will work as a carry-on with a bunch of camera gear that I'd like to bring (1 or 2 bodies, 4-5 small and medium lenses, 2-3 flashes, accessories, etc, small laptop).

I'm thinking about the Pelican 1514 since it seems the best price of various options, I could use it for other stuff later and if I'm forced to check it I would feel slightly (!) better about it.

In any case, what have been recent experiences with various carriers lately? Seems, they are getting ever more picky about weight issues. I saw some where the limit was 6kg for carry. That's less than the empty Pelican case...

American carriers still have mostly 40lb in place but that limits my choices, especially given the code share arrangements that may nullify this again. I've taken AA in the past quite often but I'd like to avoid going through Heathrow. Destination could be Frankfurt, Amsterdam or anywhere in the larger area.

Thanks and Happy New Year to you all.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 31, 2011)

heathrow is a nightmare, and avoid british airways like the the plague they have the worst customer service and the rudest staff as well as the most nazi like rules about carry on unfortunately they are hard to avoid in that part of the world, lufthansa are not too bad singapore airlines are great as is cathay


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## katwil (Dec 31, 2011)

I’ve never encountered an issue with the weight of my carry-ons, just with checked baggage. Generally carry-on restrictions are dimension-based. I’ve pasted the information from American Airlines website (aa.com) below.

Travel to/through/from Europe

Number of Bags Allowed Size and Weight Per Bag Allowed

One personal item: No charge	45 in/115 cm (carry-on)

One bag carry-on: No charge	62 in/158 cm (checked)

One bag checked: No charge	50 lbs./23 kgs (checked)

The measurements above are the total of the length, width, and height of each bag. I would think that most other US carriers match up pretty close to these standards.

I would agree with an earlier post about Heathrow and BA; that’s a bad combination. My general experience with transatlantic travel from Europe has been that smaller airports are better as long as the flight schedules are acceptable.


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## Kernuak (Jan 1, 2012)

A number of carriers in Europe have quite stringent weight limits for carry on baggage. One exception is Easyjet, their limit is what you can easily lift into the overhead storage . They're dimensions for carry on is also among the largest. Norwegian is another one with more generous allowances, with similar dimensions to Easyjet and 10kg. The downside, is that you pay extra for each piece of hold baggage, but at least then you are only paying for what you need and I think the basic for each is 20kg (some are only 15kg). As both are budget airlines, don't expect too much in the way of customer service and you'll be fine and don't expect to get meals included. You will of course also have to use other carriers to get to Europe, as I don't think they fly transatlantic (although Easyjet may and Norwegian have links to other airlines).


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 1, 2012)

In my travels, I've never had a carryon weighed, only checked bags. I'd imagine if you grunt and strain to carry it, someone might notice and check, but as long as you're able to carry it comfortably, you should be fine. 

I have both Pelican and Storm cases (both Pelican, technically, since Pelican bought out Storm). I prefer Storm over Pelican - the latches are just as strong, but much easier to open. The Pelican Storm im2500 w/ dividers is the equivalent of the Pelican 1514.


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## Kernuak (Jan 1, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> In my travels, I've never had a carryon weighed, only checked bags.



I haven't either, it's all about appearance, unless you're unlucky. I have been asked to show my carry on once, but I made sure that I had some shreddies for breakfast and held it so that they couldn't see the one dimension that was slightly over by 1cm.


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## 7enderbender (Jan 1, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> In my travels, I've never had a carryon weighed, only checked bags. I'd imagine if you grunt and strain to carry it, someone might notice and check, but as long as you're able to carry it comfortably, you should be fine.
> 
> I have both Pelican and Storm cases (both Pelican, technically, since Pelican bought out Storm). I prefer Storm over Pelican - the latches are just as strong, but much easier to open. The Pelican Storm im2500 w/ dividers is the equivalent of the Pelican 1514.



Well, that's encouraging. I think I'll go with one of those cases then and hope for the best. Prices on airfare for July is still outrageous at the moment so I'll still have time to shop around and also find the right airline - hopefully.

So the latches are the biggest difference between the two now-Pelican types. Anything else?

Thanks again for your - as always - remarkable and detailed knowledge. All the best for the upcoming year.


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## 7enderbender (Jan 1, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> heathrow is a nightmare, and avoid british airways like the the plague they have the worst customer service and the rudest staff as well as the most nazi like rules about carry on unfortunately they are hard to avoid in that part of the world, lufthansa are not too bad singapore airlines are great as is cathay



Yeah, unfortunately I know. Heathrow is just awful. I still kept taking that route because for a number of years they were just the cheapest on my routes out of Boston and to continental Europe. But still, the stuff that happens to luggage there and the delays and the busing people around and the security-kabuki dance (resulting in missing connection flights)...

Lufthansa, generally speaking, I like but they now also have some 8kg policy in place and ze Germans may just be disciplined enough to actually enforce it now. Same with Iberia. Had good experiences otherwise including connecting at Madrid airport.

Singapore Airlines may be something to check out. Never took them but heard good things. I think they go into Frankfurt from here which would work for me.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 1, 2012)

7enderbender said:


> So the latches are the biggest difference between the two now-Pelican types. Anything else?
> 
> Thanks again for your - as always - remarkable and detailed knowledge. All the best for the upcoming year.



The latches are the biggest difference. The Storm divider padding is a little less compressible. For the two carryons, the dimensions are very slightly different - the Peli is a little narrower and a little longer, the Storm is a little shorter an a little wider. Probably not enough to make any difference if storing gear with the dividers. But, it makes a difference for me when I pack my loaded Lowepro Flipside 400 AW in the hard case (dividers removed) - the pack is a snug fit for width, just fits in the im2500 but likely would not in the 1510. 

Happy New Year! All the best...

--John


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## scottkinfw (Jan 1, 2012)

Last March went to Africa: Dallas-Nashville-Amsterdam-Kilimanjaro via KLM Dutch.

KLM was awesome- spoiled us the whole time, and we were in coach. No problems with baggage.

I have a couple of suggestions to consider:

Look at Thinktank Airport International V2.0 V.2.0 Rolling Camera Bag. This is guaranteed to fit overhead or under seat all airlines. It is a roller and converts to backpack. This allows you to carry it on your back while lugging other bags by hand-very handy. Very well made, good features.

Another trick you may find handy is to wear a safari vest. You may feel silly in it, but you can stow lenses, and lots of stuff in the pockets, and it isn't considered carry on since you wear it.

One final suggestion- don't check your gear- never let it leave your side.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 1, 2012)

scottkinfw said:


> One final suggestion- don't check your gear- never let it leave your side.



What if you get stuck boarding a flight late (based on boarding zone/row, or a tight connection), and the overheads are all full? That probably happens on >50% of flights I take these days. It didn't used to be this bad, but with the implementation of and subsequent big increases in checked bag fees, everyone tries to carry it all with them to avoid the fees. 

The gear mentioned by the OP doesn't seem like it would all fit in a bag small enough to stow under a seat (the Thinktank bag you mention is carryon size, but at 21" long, seems like it wouldn't fit under a seat). I agree in principle about keeping your gear with you - but sometimes that's not an option, and arguing the point with flight crew these days is likely to land you in jail. For that reason, I'd not recommend using a soft-sided case - higher chance of damage, and also theft (zippers are easily opened), if forced to check the bag. 

Also, make sure your gear is all insured before your trip (it should be insured anyway)!


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## dr croubie (Jan 1, 2012)

scottkinfw said:


> Another trick you may find handy is to wear a safari vest. You may feel silly in it, but you can stow lenses, and lots of stuff in the pockets, and it isn't considered carry on since you wear it.



I did that too, not a safari vest just a nice big polar fleece, in June, 28 degrees C, flying from Schiphol back to australia via Singapore (31C and 99% humidity). Had about 3-4 lenses and a laptop charger in my jacket, a P&S and wallet and about 1kg of various coins from around the world in my pants pockets, laptop and camera and books in my backpack weighing about 13kg, plus 22kg of checked baggage including a pair of skis. Singapore Airlines officially only give you 20kg still, but I made a comment like, "ah, 1kg under" when I weighed it at the check-in desk, as most airlines these days give you 23kg. Was just lucky that noone weighed my backpack, being an 85kg 6' bloke I wasn't straining too much so they probably never suspected.

It used to be the case that any ticket going through/via the USA you got 30 or 40kg checked baggage, my dad used to fly around the world a lot for work (he was a ship's Captain), the company always sent him on a flight through the US so he could get a lot more baggage, cheaper than a quicker/more direct flight paying excess baggage allowances. So if you're coming from the USA you should get more baggage allowance, that's probably airline-dependent these days though.

+1 on the EasyJet once you get over there, book long enough in advance and pay like $10 a seat, the unlimited-weight-as-long-as-you-can-carry-it-yourself has proven more than useful for me in the past.

Also, I've never flown through Frankfurt, though I've done Schiphol, Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead, Luton all often enough that I wouldn't bother. You're probably better off going to Frankfurt for any continent-based travel, then hop on a german ICE fast-train, book up to 90 days in advance and you can generally get anywhere between NL, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Poland, Austria, Switzerland for as little as €30, much preferable to flying and take all you can carry (also, you get as much leg-room as business class on a plane).

To go to the UK you can also get to Schiphol, take the Thalys or hourly-Intercity to Brussels, and Eurostar to St Pancras (from my place in The Hague that was quicker to my sister in London (Hammersmith) than bothering with planes). Schiphol as an airport isn't bad, but because of the density of the country I'd only recommend it if your first stop is NL, the german ICEs go through there but they're limited to 150-200km/h until they get to germany, only then they can go 350km/h, so Frankfurt is better for German/Austrian/Swiss travel.


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## Caps18 (Jan 1, 2012)

I got the Pelican 1514 case (Case Cruzer one) for my birthday and with my 17" Macbook Pro, 5Dm2, 16-35mm, 85mm, flash, 25mm extension tube, and 300 f/4 +1.4x it all weighs 32 lbs.

I still am having problems finding a case for my tripod that I could carry on. They don't seem to have a 23"x14"x5.75" case (a larger version of my 1490 case). The Pelican 1700 would be great, but I can't carry it on.

Easy to roll around, I wouldn't want to have to carry it from one side of Heathrow to the other.

I took the Tube and Eurostar to Paris, and I would recommend the trains to get around Europe over the airlines. Except from Barcelona to London. That flight was faster, easier, and cheaper.


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## awinphoto (Jan 1, 2012)

I have the pelican 1514 and love it. Was able to run around San Fran international trying to connect after my original flight was delayed (ended up missing it cause my connecting push back early). It works as well as any rolling luggage however the only complaint is the pull out handle feels flimy, it still works well. I didn't have any problems on airlines with it however I had a flight attendant or two ask me once boarded if I wanted to check the case or put it in their supply closet. I politely said no thanks and they left it at that.


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## willrobb (Jan 1, 2012)

I've always found flying with KLM via Amsterdam to be a very hassle free option when going between Asia and Europe. Anytime I find a cheaper ticket via London I always regret having to deal with the staff in Heathrow, has to be one of the worst airports to fly through.

Carry on wise I always use Lowpro bags that fit within carry on luggage size restrictions, the AW 400 for example. I can get two bodies, a couple of speedlites, my MacBook and about 4 lenses in, it's never been weighed and has t caused any issues yet...touch wood.

Actually I'm moving back to the UK in March and am a bit worried about taking all our gear, plus light stands, tripods, backgrounds etc. Maybe need to use DHL....think I'll start a thread about that soon.


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## Kernuak (Jan 1, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> Also, I've never flown through Frankfurt, though I've done Schiphol, Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead, Luton all often enough that I wouldn't bother.



I've had the "pleasure" of transferring through Frankfurt (can't remember where I was going). It may have been because of the building work that was going on, but it certainly wasn't pleasant. It was worse than Heathrow for crowds, resulting in very cramped conditions for refreshments. Also, most of the toilets were closed and the ones that were in use were disgusting, totally different to Munich, which is a much more modern airport. I've never had to transfer through Heathrow, as it was always my starting/end point. I've transferred through Schiphool a number of times, either between the UK (usually Gatwick) and Thessaloniki or one one occasion to Chicago from Thessaloniki and back. I got the third degree at Chicago incidentally, because I didn't have a return ticket to the UK. It took me several minutes to persuade the check-in clerk that I didn't need one as an EU citizen living and working in Greece. I think she was planning on deporting me back to the UK, instead of Greece, but then it was December 2001... All of those transfers were without camera gear though, the only transfer with camera gear has been through Oslo Gardemoen, the other flights with gear have been direct, mostly Easyjet.


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## leGreve (Jan 1, 2012)

I got the 1510 for my gear in case I need to carry a load. The 1510 is guaranteed to fit in any cabin hold, and I don't think it exceeds the weight limit even with gear in. I think most countries in Europe have a 10kg limit.

Otherwise some of the lowe pro runner bags are also worth considering. They can hold quite a lot and fits nicely in any hold.


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## Narcolepsy (Jan 1, 2012)

Consider Dublin - fairly small nice airport. Aerlingus allow 10kg hand luggage plus other small items such as cameras etc...
23kg for checked baggage. As long as you are close enough, I have never had any hassle...
The best thing about Dublin is going to the USA - you go through US immigration and customs in Dublin - and land at the domestic terminal with no delays (especially helpful if you are not a US citizen).
If you do use Dublin, don't use Ryanair for onward travel - they are terrible about both checked and carry-on luggage.


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## danski0224 (Jan 1, 2012)

I am not a travel expert, but Red Oxx has some nice travel and general purpose bags that are worth checking out.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 1, 2012)

leGreve said:


> I got the 1510 for my gear in case I need to carry a load. The 1510 is guaranteed to fit in any cabin hold, and I don't think it exceeds the weight limit even with gear in. I think most countries in Europe have a 10kg limit.



Depends on the gear, right? On a trip to China early in 2011, my loaded im2500 (Storm version of the Peli 1510) weighed 34 lbs (15.5 kg). 

One other consideration is that different carriers/countries obviously have different policies. China's limit for carryon is 5 kg, but they never weighed mine. Also, no limit on number like in the US - people carried on 4-5 shopping bags. They did weigh checked bags, but interestingly the weight limit did not apply per bag but to the group, so our group of four had an 88 kg allowance, even though on bag was over the 22 kg limit by a couple of kg (thanks to an inequitable re-packing), the other three were under so it wasn't an issue.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 1, 2012)

Forgot to add - I use a pair of these locks for my case while traveling.


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## Old Shooter (Jan 1, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Forgot to add - I use a pair of these locks for my case while traveling.



+1! Just bought two! Paid the same amount for a pair of Brookstone locks at the airport that will b-a-r-e-l-y close on my Pelican latches! Really like the tamper/search indicator too! Thanks, Neuro!


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## Old Shooter (Jan 1, 2012)

I've been traveling a lot in the last two years; nearly 200,000 Skymiles to date... Mostly in the Middle East, connecting in Atlanta, and then down to Central America... I've lugged my Pelican 1500 with me the whole time...

The plucked foam looked good when I set it up, but in normal handling the foam breaks loose and you lose your perfectly designed compartments...  I'm glad I read this thread because it guided me to the Pelican website and I found out I could replace the foam fingers with a divider set for just $55.99 at B&H! Thanks, guys!

But, back to travel... One of the airline counters had a red, "FRAGILE - Handle With Care" sticker that they put on the side for me... When I carry it on, even lugging my backpack, no one has ever said a word... The best part about a hard case; you don't stress out when people jam their briefcases and other junk on top of it in the overhead bin - you know your stuff is safe... When I have boarded late, due to a tight connection, I've had the flight attendants offer to stow it in first class for me... People just seem to respect those cases; I guess it conveys that you care about your gear...

That Pelican 1514 and Storm iM2500 both look real nice! When I treat myself to a FF it might be time for an upgrade! ;D


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## Harley (Jan 1, 2012)

I've seriously been considering the Kiboko and the Chobe from Gura Gear for the express reason of overseas travel usage. I recently read a review:
http://dancarrphotography.com/blog/2011/12/05/gura-gear-chobe-review/
that had some good info on travel restrictions. Go down just past all the photos to a spot where they start talking about bag dimensions and you'll see that portion.


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## pp77 (Jan 1, 2012)

scottkinfw said:


> +1 on the EasyJet once you get over there, book long enough in advance and pay like $10 a seat, the unlimited-weight-as-long-as-you-can-carry-it-yourself has proven more than useful for me in the past.
> 
> Also, I've never flown through Frankfurt, though I've done Schiphol, Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead, Luton all often enough that I wouldn't bother. You're probably better off going to Frankfurt for any continent-based travel, then hop on a german ICE fast-train, book up to 90 days in advance and you can generally get anywhere between NL, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Poland, Austria, Switzerland for as little as €30, much preferable to flying and take all you can carry (also, you get as much leg-room as business class on a plane).



Unfortunately the times are almost gone when you could easily get a 0.10, 1 or 10 Euro ticket (+ taxes) from the low fare airlines in Europe, rather calculate with 50 to 100 Euro for each flight now. If you choose a connection flight with one of these airlines check their luggage policy carefully, some charge a lot for each individual piece of lagguage or based on the actual weight. Avoid Ryanair, they have a horrible pricing system. You will have to pay to pay your ticket with a credit card, you even have to pay for check-in. Ryanair is thinking about replacing seats with some kind of stools and they even plan to charge you for using the on-board toilet. 

Be aware, that some of the low fare airlines (e.g. Ryanair) call they destination London or Frankfurt or watever, but actually they use airports which are far outside the city centers which takes a lot additional time for transfer. Often these airports are not the main airports with the intercontinental connection flights, e.g. coach transfer London Stanstead (Ryanair) -> Heathrow will need up to 2 hours during rush hour.

In general, I would recommend to book your flights from a single carrier, than you are on the safe site with your luggage size and weight.

IMHO Heathrow is ok if it is your final destination or if you are using BA and a connecting flight also with BA. Then you do not need to change terminals (BA has a new one and the luggage problem from the opening time seems to be solved), but it might not be a very good idea if you take a different carrier to Heathrow. 
Many do not like Schipol, I think it is fine. Normally the queues are short, but the food corner could profit from some extension. 
Frankfurt has meanwhile finished most of the terminal reconstructions which was necessary because of the introduction of the A380 fleet to Lufthansa, I can not say anything bad about this airport. The railway station is convieniently located next to the terminal building.
If you are using Delta/Skyteam, Paris might be the first stop in Europe. It would be wise not to choose tight connecting times there, it usually takes a little bit longer there (long walking distances!). 

But if you found a flight which looks good to you, just take it, enjoy and have fun!


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## 7enderbender (Jan 1, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Forgot to add - I use a pair of these locks for my case while traveling.



Saw those when looking at the cases. Great idea with the TSA access. Have to get some of those for my dad who is still obsessed with locking or cable-tied regular luggage - which will get your zippers and locks destroyed if they want to open it.

In any case, is there any chance that you can put a 580EXII or 430EXII standing upright and/or in their protective sleeves in either the 1500 or the 2500? And are you using the Pelican organizer for the lid? Worth it?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 2, 2012)

7enderbender said:


> In any case, is there any chance that you can put a 580EXII or 430EXII standing upright and/or in their protective sleeves in either the 1500 or the 2500? And are you using the Pelican organizer for the lid? Worth it?



A 430EX II will fit standing up in my Storm im2500 with the dividers. It would fit in the Peli 1514, too - that case is 0.4" deeper. But, the 580EX II is close to 1" taller, so I don't think it would fit upright in either. 

I don't have the lid organizer for my im2500 carryon - when I travel with it, it's usually with the loaded Flipside 400 AW, or with gear in multiple smaller bags (e.g. Lowepro Toploader Pro and some Lowepro Lens Cases). Those cases have pockets for lens cleaning supplies, etc., so I've never felt the need for the organizer (nor the padded dividers - I have them, but haven't used them, though I would for home storage if I outgrow my other 3 hard cases). I do have the lid organizer for my Pelican 1604, and it's handy for storing the little stuff.


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## dr croubie (Jan 2, 2012)

Kernuak said:


> I've had the "pleasure" of transferring through Frankfurt (can't remember where I was going). It may have been because of the building work that was going on, but it certainly wasn't pleasant. It was worse than Heathrow for crowds, resulting in very cramped conditions for refreshments. Also, most of the toilets were closed and the ones that were in use were disgusting, totally different to Munich, which is a much more modern airport.



I've also been through Munich and Berlin (the new one, whatever that's called), both perfectly nice airports. And yeah, i've got nothing really against Schiphol, certainly used it often enough (the re/construction should be done by now).
But it kind of depends where you're going. Schiphol for Netherlands, Belgium, maybe bits of western Germany (and for a day or two stopover before taking the Eurostar to London).
Berlin for Berlin, Poland, and East Germany.
Munich for Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland.
Frankfurt for northeast-France, East Belgium, Luxembourg, west NL, Switzerland, pretty much all of Germany.
Købehavn is nice too, but every time I go I get confused and take the train to H instead of the tube to my friend's place. Also good for southern Sweden, it's miles further going from Stockholm.
Also, for really long trips, go to Paris Charles de Gaulle, get a lease/hire car from Renault (or Peugot, always confuse those two), it's a brand-new car like buying and selling it back to them when you're done. If you're going for over 2-3 months or so it works out half the price of renting a car from a rental-agency.


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## lol (Jan 2, 2012)

In my (European) air travel experience which work throws me on now and then, I've never had a case where carry on was denied being taken on board providing size requirements were met. Sometimes I've seen business people with wheely cases being diverted to an in-between state, where their carry-on baggage is loaded in a separate area on entering/leaving the plane which isn't exactly cabin nor cargo. On the airlines I've travelled on you can store both in the overhead and under the seat in front of you, at the possible cost of some legroom if you're particularly tall. I've never tried exceeding the size limits so don't know what might happen in that case.

If you're carrying on, I think a peli is overkill. A regular camera bag would suffice assuming the kit fits in one ok. On my last trip I didn't even bother with a camera bag, just threw the 7D and 70-300L (all I needed then) in my laptop bag, which I measured and weighed to be just within the allowances. Oh, the sizes and weights do vary by airline. I was a little disappointed that Lufthansa were much less generous in size than BA for example.

If you're brave or stupid enough to check it into cargo, then I think a peli would be mandatory as they do abuse stuff worse than parcel delivery companies! But you would need separate insurance if you go that route as I understand the mandatory compensation for lost luggage when travelling between different countries is basically worthless.

Oh, personally I'd avoid having connecting flights at all costs. The cost saving is usually not significant compared to a direct flight if you plan in advance with plenty of time, which is a lot less hassle and much faster. Only if there isn't a direct route possible would I consider it.

On Heathrow, my experience of it as a start/end point is that it is much like any other busy airport. Once you've got through check-in and security it is much the same as any other airport. I don't think I'd want to transfer in it though, as there are too many terminals of which two are miles away from the others.


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## Michael_pfh (Jan 2, 2012)

I travel a lot for work and have fortunately never experienced any problems regarding the weight of either carry on or check in baggage (I am holding 2 gold statuses with 2 Star Alliance carriers, that raises the weight limit for me).

In order to protect my precious 400F2.8L while traveling I am checking it in using a Rimowa Tropicana 384.03 which is a very sturdy piece of luggage. It comes with some flexible set of dividers that allows you to customize the interior lay-out according to your specific needs.


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## Radovan III (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't know if you are aware but this year is Olympic year and 2012 Olympic games are happen to be in London from 27 July 2012 to 12 August 2012. Regardless of your and other people's experience avoid going through or close to Great Britain (before and during the games) like there is a great plague going on, since they are certainly exercising heighten levels of security measures.
So, to make long story short, I would not consider GB airports or Amsterdam as favorable airport destinations for travel in summer. I am planning to go to Europe myself and beside Frankfurt I can see maybe few other airports but that might depend on where you are flying from.


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