# New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 5, 2014)

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<p>We’re told that Canon is working to implement depth of field control in upcoming PowerShot and Rebel DSLRs. The idea sounds like what Lytro is doing, or more recently what Google introduced for the Android camera.</p>
<p>There’s no mention of which camera(s) this would be introduced in, but it seems like a logical next step feature.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## jdramirez (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

I saw that commercial for android. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic idea is that the image has infinite depth of feels and then the post production aspect of the software blurs our the portion that is not the subject. It is a ridiculous concept and u would be very annoyed if the put that function in an slr... which has the capability to shoot at f1.2 with a corresponding lens.


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## verysimplejason (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



jdramirez said:


> I saw that commercial for android. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic idea is that the image has infinite depth of feels and then the post production aspect of the software blurs our the portion that is not the subject. It is a ridiculous concept and u would be very annoyed if the put that function in an slr... which has the capability to shoot at f1.2 with a corresponding lens.



I think "being annoyed" will only be felt by people who knows photography or somebody who really have a lens with a max aperture of F1.2. For casual shooters, I think it will just be a new toy for them. Having something to at least approximate the big boys' work is something that will really be appealing to most users.


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## Dylan777 (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Just make sure it works with current EF *L*


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## cliclac (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Something I am wondering: why don't they create a "hyperfocal mode" where the AF would ensure that, regarding to the aperture, the picture would be sharp from min distance till infinity. It looks possible to implement this, and it could be useful.


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## anthonyd (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

"...but it seems like a logical next step feature." really? for whom? People that tend to take nice pictures (to avoid the term photographers) usually know where they want the focus to be before they press the shutter. People that don't, usually think that "everything in focus" is the way to go. I've had numerous people look at a picture with great subject separation and tell me "but why is the background out of focus?".

I can see the feature being somewhat useful to pros for micro-adjustments in post, but I don't see people that didn't know how to focus properly in camera spending hours in post to add bokeh to their pictures.


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## dancook (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Are you sure this is what it is?

I was thinking perhaps you specify DOF in distance, then depending on subject to camera distance it will automatically adjust aperture.

So if someone is walking towards you, you could maintain DOF instead of aperture.

Just a thought anyway


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## pedroesteban (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Sounds like A-DEP mode plus some Instagram-like shallow DOF simulation in DPP.
Nothing new here.


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## Steve Todd (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Many of Canon EOS film bodies had a "Depth" mode, so this is kind of a "Back to the Future" event!


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## dstppy (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

This makes me confused and that makes me cranky.

Don't my existing DSLR's have this already? Don't we call it Av?


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## RGF (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Think this will only work in wide angles which be set at F16 or 22 and then to the hyper focal distance (or further)


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## lw (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



jdramirez said:


> I saw that commercial for android. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic idea is that the image has infinite depth of feels and then the post production aspect of the software blurs our the portion that is not the subject. It is a ridiculous concept and u would be very annoyed if the put that function in an slr... which has the capability to shoot at f1.2 with a corresponding lens.



But having a lens with a shallow DoF doesn't give you the ability to change the focus *after *the shot, which Lytro do.
That's the important feature.
Can your current DSLR + F1.2 do this *after *you have taken the shot? https://pictures.lytro.com/lytro/albums/149429/embed?token=6cb04136-c43a-11e3-9416-22000a8b14ce

Unfortunately, even with their new Illum camera, the PQ from a Litro is still poor compared to a DSLR...


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## Dylan777 (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



anthonyd said:


> "...but it seems like a logical next step feature." really? for whom? People that tend to take nice pictures (to avoid the term photographers) usually know where they want the focus to be before they press the shutter. People that don't, usually think that "everything in focus" is the way to go. I've had numerous people look at a picture with great subject separation and tell me "but why is the background out of focus?".
> 
> I can see the feature being somewhat useful to pros for micro-adjustments in post, but I don't see people that didn't know how to focus properly in camera spending hours in post to add bokeh to their pictures.



You haven't shoot BIF yet, do you? ;D


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## ewg963 (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



Dylan777 said:


> Just make sure it works with current EF *L*


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## Dylan777 (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



dstppy said:


> This makes me confused and that makes me cranky.
> 
> Don't my existing DSLR's have this already? Don't we call it Av?



What if you missed your subject in Av mode @ big apertures?


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## Lightmaster (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

sounds like a stupid art filter.

to at least calculate good looking DOF in post you need a depth map.
and it takes some time on a average desktop pc (like a i7 2600K) to calculate the DOF from a depth map. 

i have to do it every day, for videos and stills. 
i render out images and a special z-buffer image for the depth information.
from that depth map (a grayscale image that show distance information in shades of grey) i can then calculate and move the focus point in PS, after effects or nuke to my liking.

even the good rosenman DOF plugin or the lenscare DOF plugin for photoshop need a lot of time/processing power and still the results are often not 100% perfect (antialiasing issues because of differences in depth map and image informations).

fast processing in camera for JPG`s .... i don´t see how a rebel camera can do it so that the quality would satisfy me.


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Really Canonrumors, you've gotten so desperate that you are going to publish something that is so obviously false?

There is 0.0% light field is coming to the EOS line. If you did any research on it[light field] whatsoever you'd know why this is the case.


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## Lightmaster (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



HurtinMinorKey said:


> Really Canonrumors, you've gotten so desperate that you are going to publish something that is so obviously false?
> 
> There is 0.0% light field is coming to the EOS line. If you did any research on it[light field] whatsoever you'd know why this is the case.




it does not have to be lightfield technology.
the rumor is very vague.. could be about adding bokeh in post.

it could be possible that the dual pixel AF can deliver enough depth information to create a depth map. when i first read about dual pixel technology i instantly thought about this.

normaly the depth maps i create have a distance information for every image pixel.
the more roughly the image is approximated in the depth map image the more fake looks the post production DOF.

and maybe it´s possible to readout the relative distance informations for every pixel on (future) dual pixel sensors.

you could then use this information to do a fake bokeh in post. 
but as i said such calculations are normaly slow (or they are fast but look bad).

but done right you can´t (99% of the people anyway) say for sure if it´s postproduction or real.
it all depends on how correct your depth map is and how good the algorithm to calulate the DOF.


EDIT:

of course this will not help to get out of focus parts into focus after the image was taken.

it only would help to simulate a f1.2 lens when you only have a f5.6 lens. 
more like alienskin bokeh on steroids.


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## Woody (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Sounds like something ALL the manufacturers (Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic) will offer sooner or later


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## mroffbeat (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

i actually care about new camera's coming out. I am about to buy a 5D M3 and wish the price would drop more


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## Sabaki (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

If it's as "epic" (read as highly sarcastic) as the Smart Sharpen function in Photoshop CC, I hope it doesn't make its way to the DSLR bodies.


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## Albi86 (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



Lightmaster said:


> the rumor is very vague..



+1

A lot of heat for something that we don't even have a clue of what it is.


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## jdramirez (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



Albi86 said:


> Lightmaster said:
> 
> 
> > the rumor is very vague..
> ...



There was a guy advertising for photography services a few years back on Craig's list. His sample images looked like a mobile phone with some really bad bokeh filters applied.

I'm not saying everyone needs full frame and an f1.2 prime, but the assertion that comparable professional results can come from such techniques are so asinine.


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## sanj (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



Albi86 said:


> Lightmaster said:
> 
> 
> > the rumor is very vague..
> ...



Absolutely. Canon people may be slow but they are not idiots. If they bringing something on, they must have reasons.


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## jdramirez (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



sanj said:


> Absolutely. Canon people may be slow but they are not idiots. If they bringing something on, they must have reasons.



I feel that Canon has enough misses to make a credible challenge to your idiot claim.


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## East Wind Photography (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Sounds to me like a mode in which the camera determines the subject near and far distance and sets aperture to ensure all subjects are in focus.

take for example a shot of a group of people. face detection could be used to determine the distance to the subject closest to the camera and the suject farthest from the camera, then select the aperture that mathmatically satisfies the DOF with that lens.

Sounds like a cool feature for consumer level cameras or even for shooting video if it was dynamic enough to adapt to the changing environment in real time.


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## mrsfotografie (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



Steve Todd said:


> Many of Canon EOS film bodies had a "Depth" mode, so this is kind of a "Back to the Future" event!



Yes, my 50e (ElanIIe) had this already (camera Date introduced = September 1995): 



> DEP is for depth of field auto exposure mode. It allows the camera to decide the
> appropriate aperture and focus position to provide enough depth of field to keep two
> selected distances sharply in focus. The easiest way to use it is to turn the Command
> Dial to DEP, and use the center auto focus sensor, point the camera at the first subject
> ...


 (ref: http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics.stanford.edu%2F~niloy%2FmiscDocs%2FelanIIe.pdf&ei=2sBnU7iiDcn-PPi8gOAL&usg=AFQjCNFcpLQfmpOPCiZ99ceN_esrVc9bDw)

Maybe Canon will now also bring back the eye controlled autofocus feature!!! 8)


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## Don Haines (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



jdramirez said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely. Canon people may be slow but they are not idiots. If they bringing something on, they must have reasons.
> ...



Of course they have reasons.... why else would they do it.

As to if the reasons pass the test of time or if those reasons are accepted by the marketplace, that is a completely different problem.....


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## AvTvM (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

could be anything ... from a really lousy "art filter" to add artificial blur ... to "A-DEP revisited" ... all the way to what Lighmaster wrote (depth map based on dual-pixel info from sensor) ... 

It definitely will NOT be true peloptic/lightfield imaging (along the lines of Lytro) sice that would represent "change and innovation" in the magnitude of a million times Canon's boldest possible imagination. 

Whatever it may be ... I just hope the disease will be tightly confined to Powershots and Rebels.


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## jdramirez (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



East Wind Photography said:


> Sounds to me like a mode in which the camera determines the subject near and far distance and sets aperture to ensure all subjects are in focus.
> 
> take for example a shot of a group of people. face detection could be used to determine the distance to the subject closest to the camera and the suject farthest from the camera, then select the aperture that mathmatically satisfies the DOF with that lens.
> 
> Sounds like a cool feature for consumer level cameras or even for shooting video if it was dynamic enough to adapt to the changing environment in real time.



That's a cool feature and I think it would be perfect for a consumer level camera.


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## distant.star (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

.
If some feature like this appears on entry level cameras, it has the potential to educate people on DOF.

We all win when we can easily talk with everyone about DOF.


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## dgbrownnt (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

I see two options:

1. A pattern of dual pixels across the sensor (in addition to the ones for focusing?) which can take a deep depth of field and simulate a shallow one. While Canon has the technology for this (and this is definitely the cooler of the options), it feels too techie for them to use in entry-level gear (where most whiz-bang features tend to be software).

2. Focus stacking with lots of fps. This seems more likely to me, especially if they market this as a macro option (since macro shots still can get kinda shallow DoF on a compact). Also, it's mostly a matter of software (provided there's processing power for it), which is more consistent with consumer products.


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## dstppy (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



Dylan777 said:


> dstppy said:
> 
> 
> > This makes me confused and that makes me cranky.
> ...


 ;D I never miss! How absurd!

Besides, that one-eye-in-focus look is, um, artsy! :


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## unfocused (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

I know the consensus is that this wouldn't be true "Lightfield" technology. But, is there some reason to say that?

Just curious. It seems like sooner or later some manufacturer will incorporate the technology into DSLRs. Or is there some basic issue with the technology that would make that impossible?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



dstppy said:


> This makes me confused and that makes me cranky.
> 
> Don't my existing DSLR's have this already? Don't we call it Av?



No the Lytro thing has nothing to do with Av mode at all. It's almost more like capturing a hologram almost in a way.

But it's a tricky thing to pull off while maintaining a lot of MP and so on, so I'm kinda of surprised to hear about them managing to go there already with a DSLR.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



Lightmaster said:


> sounds like a stupid art filter.
> 
> to at least calculate good looking DOF in post you need a depth map.
> and it takes some time on a average desktop pc (like a i7 2600K) to calculate the DOF from a depth map.
> ...



But that is the whole point here it is not just shooting something at like f/36 and then apply art filters after. It's capturing the depth field itself when you shoot.

But I find it hard to believe Canon could have something like this working at the quality we expect from a DSLR for a DSLR. I tend to think this rumor is made up or the person sending it in radically misinterpreted something he overheard and maybe it's just bringing back the old EOS DOF click click shoot thing or something?? The latter would have nothing to do with the Lytro stuff at all.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



East Wind Photography said:


> Sounds to me like a mode in which the camera determines the subject near and far distance and sets aperture to ensure all subjects are in focus.
> 
> take for example a shot of a group of people. face detection could be used to determine the distance to the subject closest to the camera and the suject farthest from the camera, then select the aperture that mathmatically satisfies the DOF with that lens.
> 
> Sounds like a cool feature for consumer level cameras or even for shooting video if it was dynamic enough to adapt to the changing environment in real time.



My original EOS650 had that.


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## jfn_south (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

Canon will be coming out with the new 'Canon (dont) Think' camera soon I heard. You just imagine a photo and it appears on your camera, it's pretty rad.

No need to do ANYTHING! Now THAT'S PHOTOGRAPHY!


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## Gorku (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

This is why I keep coming back to Canon Rumors 

A guy who nobody knows who is, overheard something that nobody is certain of what was and now a lot of people is discussing something that nobody really knows what is!


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## AudioGlenn (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



dstppy said:


> This makes me confused and that makes me cranky.
> 
> Don't my existing DSLR's have this already? Don't we call it Av?



+1


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## zim (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds to me like a mode in which the camera determines the subject near and far distance and sets aperture to ensure all subjects are in focus.
> ...



My old 500D still has it ;D


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## Lightmaster (May 5, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Lightmaster said:
> 
> 
> > sounds like a stupid art filter.
> ...



i thought the general perception is that it could be anything? ;D

but yes.... if it´s done right (and that is what i doubt) then it´s not just a stupid art filter.


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## anthonyd (May 6, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



jfn_south said:


> Canon will be coming out with the new 'Canon (dont) Think' camera soon I heard. You just imagine a photo and it appears on your camera, it's pretty rad.
> 
> No need to do ANYTHING! Now THAT'S PHOTOGRAPHY!



I get the sarcasm in your post, don't get me wrong, but I couldn't resist pointing out that imagining an awesome picture is quite often more than 50% of the hard work.


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## Canihaspicture (May 6, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*

If this rumor is true then I don't expect it to be some filter garbage... Canon DSLRs already use microlenses. Slap a high pixel density sensor in there and you're practically done with a lightfield camera, the rest is processing.

Even just a minor fix for the oh crap it focused on the nose instead of the eye problem.


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## sanj (May 6, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



jdramirez said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely. Canon people may be slow but they are not idiots. If they bringing something on, they must have reasons.
> ...



Idiot claim? Nice...


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## Markus D (May 6, 2014)

*Re: New PowerShot & EOS Cameras to Offer DOF Control?*



mrsfotografie said:


> Steve Todd said:
> 
> 
> > Many of Canon EOS film bodies had a "Depth" mode, so this is kind of a "Back to the Future" event!
> ...



Maybe they could bring back film also!! Yes, the EOS3 had Depth of Field as an option. Wish I had it on my 40D. Or on the next 7d(XX).


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