# Two new EOS M camera bodies coming in the second half of 2020 [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 8, 2020)

> I have been told that Canon will address the EOS M lineup in the second half of 2020. The Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 will be the first to get announced and begin shipping before an EOS M camera announcement.
> A Canon EOS M50 Mark II would make sense, but the second EOS M camera remains a bit of a mystery.
> I am also told that Canon will be announcing more prime lenses for the EOS M mount in the second half of 2020 as well.
> Please take into consideration that these plans may be affected by the current global pandemic.
> More to come…



Continue reading...


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## Chaitanya (Apr 8, 2020)

Replacement for M5.


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## koenkooi (Apr 8, 2020)

I can't think of a feature that would make me switch away from an M6II to a new M so soon. IBIS and proper 5GHz wifi would be nice, but not enough.


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## Richard Vernick (Apr 8, 2020)

Would be nice to have an integrated EVF and better weather sealing, but otherwise will just keep my M5 and M6ii. Make great travel cameras an companion cameras for my larger Canon gear.


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## Sharlin (Apr 8, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I can't think of a feature that would make me switch away from an M6II to a new M so soon. IBIS and proper 5GHz wifi would be nice, but not enough.



Why should you? The M6II less than a year old product  Canon itself definitely does not expect people to switch bodies like underwear.


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## koenkooi (Apr 8, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Why should you? The M6II less than a year old product  Canon itself definitely does not expect people to switch bodies like underwear.



Exactly! It's less than a year old and only slightly less than €1000. It would be a good moment to sell it, but it does what I need and does it well.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 8, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I can't think of a feature that would make me switch away from an M6II to a new M so soon. IBIS and proper 5GHz wifi would be nice, but not enough.



Maybe the ability to have an eye level viewfinder and control external flashes at the same time? Canon really dropped the ball on that one. If they were going to combine the M5 and M6 lines, they should have made it the M5 Mark II and included a built-in EVF so that the hot shoe could be reserved for what it is intended.

That's why many did not even consider buying an M6 Mark II.


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## Larsskv (Apr 8, 2020)

Richard Vernick said:


> Would be nice to have an integrated EVF and better weather sealing, but otherwise will just keep my M5 and M6ii. Make great travel cameras an companion cameras for my larger Canon gear.



I have the M5. Is the AF in the M6II a significant upgrade?


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## Michael Clark (Apr 8, 2020)

Larsskv said:


> I have the M5. Is the AF in the M6II a significant upgrade?



Yes. It's as revolutionary as the difference between the AF for the 5D Mark II and the 5D Mark III. But you give up the built-in EVF and must use an external EVF mounted on the hot shoe.


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## Bob Howland (Apr 8, 2020)

Canon is going to introduce more prime M lenses later this year?? Sorry Canon! At the rate I'm going, I'll own the entire Sigma Trinity by July.


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## koenkooi (Apr 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Maybe the ability to have an eye level viewfinder and control external flashes at the same time? Canon really dropped the ball on that one. If they were going to combine the M5 and M6 lines, they should have made it the M5 Mark II and included a built-in EVF so that the hot shoe could be reserved for what it is intended.
> 
> That's why many did not even consider buying an M6 Mark II.



No, I really wanted an M like the original M, without EVF. I hate the EVF on the M50, good riddance! The solitary bees emerged this weekend and I did notice that I very much want the tilty-flippy screen back, the M6II screen articulation is only useful if you like photographing nose hair.

If I really need and EVF+flash I use the RP, which I do like. Same screen as the M50, but much better optics in front of it.


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## zonoskar (Apr 8, 2020)

An M5-II with the pop-up EVF from the latest patent please... And throw in IBIS too if it's not too much bother.


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## peters (Apr 8, 2020)

I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP? 

Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?


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## sanj (Apr 8, 2020)

Is this not old news?


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## koenkooi (Apr 8, 2020)

peters said:


> I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?
> 
> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?



The RP body alone is still a lot bigger than an M6II, it only gets worse if you attach lenses. You can almost pack two M+32mm in the space of on RP+50STM.


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## docsmith (Apr 8, 2020)

Overall, bringing IBIS to the M lineup in a higher end body and a mid-level body would make a lot of sense to me. Also, as noted, the higher end body could have a built in EVF. You can call it a M5II, but it could also be a M1. 

Canon is showing some signs of taking the M lineup seriously. Anyone that owns the M6 II knows it is actually a very capable little camera. Rumors are that they are adding lenses. A couple could be higher end. 



peters said:


> I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?
> 
> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?



Sometimes it is easiest to define yourself against the competition. For the M, think micro 4/3s, many of the smaller APS-C set ups. 

Plus, because of the M mount size vs the size of the R, the M lineup will always be able to be smaller than the R. Then, include the fact that Canon has always done a good job of providing a product at each price point, the M allows them to dip into those lower price points, both with lenses and bodies.


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## PeterT (Apr 8, 2020)

peters said:


> I don't really understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is already super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?


Some people prefer small bodies and small, but capable enough, lenses (and some others prefer big bodies and can withstand big lenses because of their advantages). And for them the RP is definitely not "super small".
Just look at this Camerasize comparison:
https://j.mp/2XjPh6y
The RP kit on that picture is 40% heavier.



peters said:


> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor...


Of course it could be made. But it seems that Canon does not want to do it. And even if they did it then the lenses would not be as small as M lenses because of the bigger mount. And the APS-C R bodies and lenses would be considered "entry level", "cheap", "for those who never buy a second lens" etc. like it is now with Canon's APS/C DSLRs (e.g. there are no good wide angle primes at all). So I would not expect a nice 12mm or 15mm f/2 primes for the APS-C R, And maybe also no IBIS (like Nikon did with its Z50). Etc.
Keeping M as a different line would allow to make its top model (hopefully M-5II) really top - including IBIS and many other features. And produce good lenses, too.


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## picperfect (Apr 8, 2020)

zonoskar said:


> An M5-II with the pop-up EVF from the latest patent please... And throw in IBIS too if it's not too much bother.


Yes ... as "hi end" option. And Canon: please name it *EOS M7*, in order to stop the whimpering for an EOS R with APS-C sensor.
For me a "mid-level" option please: M50 Mk. II with pop-up EVF, M6 II sensor + AF, IBIS and same price tag as M50.


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## Etienne (Apr 8, 2020)

Please make the second M camera the M5 mark II


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## hillj25 (Apr 8, 2020)

Hi, new here! probably be some new sensors or features, bigger screen maybe but one of the big draws I would expect to be the image.canon feature to auto transfer images to your preferred photo storage platform like google/adobe/apple.


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## LensFungus (Apr 8, 2020)

Hello, I am the CEO of Canon. Our business is doing very well and therefore we now have a lot of former Sony people working for us. Later this year we will release the Canon EOS M6 Mark III and at the end of the year the Canon EOS M6 Mark IV. Stay tuned!


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## Tom W (Apr 8, 2020)

My prediction - and I've been wrong a lot more than I've been right - 
One of those bodies will be the M5 Mk II, and it will be a sister body to a 7D Mk III, both sporting a 32 mpx APS-C sensor, kind of like the M6 II and 90D.
Not sure on the other one - perhaps a budget priced with either the 32 or 24 mpx sensor.


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## Andy Westwood (Apr 8, 2020)

Owning both an R body and an M series body there is no getting away from full frame being far superior as image quality, ISO and Bokeh etc. However, I love my compact M series kit, sure my head says drop it but my heart says keep with it as I so enjoy casual shooting with it, something to sling around my shoulder when I’m on holiday.

I pe-ordered the M5 as soon as it was announced but Canon’s flagship model fast started to look dated as soon after every other M Series Body announced even entry models had a far superior autofocus system.

Will Canon simply drop that 32.5-megapixel sensor from the M6 II and 90D into the M5 II and M50 II and even the M200. Personally, I’d rather have, a better autofocus system, IBIS, improved ISO more fps and a Vari-Angle touchscreen on these next two M bodies please Canon...


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## mpb001 (Apr 8, 2020)

I agree with the logic of the Small RP body vs M size cameras. I am fully into the Canon FF system with a 5DIV. I also use a tiny SL1,which isa fantastic street camera with a EFS 24 mm lens. 

I have been very interested in the M6II for a while and like the idea of the detachment EVF.

I am not interested in the R5, because I like my bigger files from my 5DIV. For me I am very interested in what the all new sensor in the R6 will bring, even if it is a modification of the one used in the 1DXIII. 

If the sensor in the R6 combined with IBIS is good, that might become my main camera even with 20 MP.


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## slclick (Apr 8, 2020)

This is good news (it being a CR2) The possible M52 would be a fantastic camera. I had the M5 and liked it but not loved it, a few changes and it could be the gap to fill various shooters bags From those seeking the 7D2 successor, to the folks not wanting to jump into mirrorless FF yet the M system never gave them 'enough'. More choices are always better.


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## bbasiaga (Apr 8, 2020)

I'm not super familiar with the M series. Though I saw one at Best Buy before the quarantine, and its size looked nice for casual use. I see a lot of talk above about using APS-c sensors in these cameras...is that even technically possible? The 4/3s series sensors are all currently smaller if I'm not mistaken (or am I mistaken?). 

-Brian


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## EverydayPhotographer (Apr 8, 2020)

I wonder if the rumored APS-C R camera might actually surface in the M lineup? It's not unprecedented - back when film was still a thing and my back didn't hurt every time I sat on the couch too long, Kodak was introducing the "half frame" APS 35mm format. Canon's IX camera, which was the only camera they offered in that format, fell under the Rebel marketing family, though I don't think it ever carried the name. It's something I hadn't really thought of. We've talked about how an RF to EF-M adapter is a near impossibility because of the minimal differences in flange distance and mount size. But what about the other way around? What about a mount adapter that would allow using EF-M lenses on an RF mount body with APS-C sensor? I mean, this is about CR-negative-2 level speculation right now. But it's an interesting twist on the rumors.


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## picperfect (Apr 8, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> I'm not super familiar with the M series. Though I saw one at Best Buy before the quarantine, and its size looked nice for casual use. I see a lot of talk above about using APS-c sensors in these cameras...is that even technically possible? The 4/3s series sensors are all currently smaller if I'm not mistaken (or am I mistaken?).
> -Brian



all Canon EOS M models - past and current (and future) - do have APS-C sensors. 3:2 aspect ratio. 

Canon EOS M mount parameters are ideally chosen for APS-C sensor/image circle. Not any bigger than needed, not any smaller. That's why Canon can keep the EOS M models very compact or even ultracompact (witness the first EOS M and M2 models!). 

mFT was never able to fully leverage size advantage of the small image circle. That's why it will not survive much longer.


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## stevelee (Apr 8, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> I'm not super familiar with the M series. Though I saw one at Best Buy before the quarantine, and its size looked nice for casual use. I see a lot of talk above about using APS-c sensors in these cameras...is that even technically possible? The 4/3s series sensors are all currently smaller if I'm not mistaken (or am I mistaken?).
> -Brian


The M cameras have APS-C sensors, like the Rebels. The 4/3 sensors are somewhat smaller.


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## stevelee (Apr 8, 2020)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro...le:Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside_-_updated.svg


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## PureClassA (Apr 8, 2020)

EOS M, now coming equipped with IBIS no doubt


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## bbasiaga (Apr 8, 2020)

Thanks guys. I did not realize that the M series was not actually mFT!


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## IcyBergs (Apr 8, 2020)

The launch of the EF-M 32mm f/1.4 and the rumors of a 100 f/2. It seems Canon has started to put more emphasis on IQ as an attribute for the M system.

With this rumor it would be interesting to see if one of the bodies is something entirely new for the M, perhaps a lower resolution sensor delivering on high iso & DR performance.


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## SouthpawSD (Apr 8, 2020)

I still love my M5. All I really want out of M52 is 1080/120 with autofocus...

I also remain interested in a constant f/4 kit lens ...


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## deleteme (Apr 8, 2020)

How about an M5II with an extra large EVF?
Pop up EVFs are compromises that are great for packaging, bad for viewing.
The M6II looks great but a detachable EVF does not work for me.


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## maniacalrobot (Apr 8, 2020)

It always seemed odd when canon released the m6ii without the obvious m5ii sibling at the same time. I have the m5i, and it’s a great little camera. But it is lacking in the build quality department. However, I think canon are missing something from their lineup. They could really do with a “pro” level m camera, something with the 30+mp censor, ibis, gps etc, top L quality lenses, and build quality that would beat the likes of, and style, of pocketable cameras like the Fuji XT series. Maybe an m5ii, but how about a m1?


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## brad-man (Apr 8, 2020)

One of the cameras must be an M5ii. If Canon is releasing more M primes, then they are aiming higher than "consumer" grade. "Consumers" rarely buy primes. All they have to do is put the M6ii hardware in an M5 body, easy peasy. I wouldn't refuse IBIS, but I don't need it. I _do_ need a EVF _and_ a hot-shoe. 'Nuff said.


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## slclick (Apr 8, 2020)

One of my complaints about the M5 is button crowding. I'd love them to take a cue from the X100V in that regard. I had to do a lot of remapping in order to keep from constantly changing settings accidentally. I basically turned off the multi direction pad. Other than that I really enjoyed it (stills only) It adapted well with most EF L lenses and was perfect for travel. The 11-22 and 22 were amazing. Longer zooms, not so much and I'd use L glass for that. I would not expect any level higher than where it sits now, you want prosumer or higher, it's going to be RF. 

If the R systems coming out in the next year or so do not provide the sweet spots (lesser models yet still more capable than the RP) some of us are looking for, the M52 just might. Like some hope...7D3 stylie.


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## Skux (Apr 8, 2020)

I was close to getting an M6II but the lack of viewfinder was a deal breaker.

I have an 800D which was my first camera and a used M3 that I use for street photography and am looking for a compact camera that could replace both of them. An M6II with a viewfinder would be exactly what I'm looking for.


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## Tangent (Apr 9, 2020)

The new primes without IS rumor plays well with the new bodies rumor: Expect IBIS.


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## brad-man (Apr 9, 2020)

Tangent said:


> The new primes without IS rumor plays well with the new bodies rumor: Expect IBIS.


There are no credible rumors of primes without IS. As is usually the case with Canon, we know nothing. But that won't keep us from discussing it endlessly...


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## davidespinosa (Apr 9, 2020)

I got the RP and RF 35mm thinking I could carry it around daily, but it's too big.
So I added a used M6 and EF-M 22mm. Much smaller.
I thought about selling the RP, but I can't bring myself to do it !


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## Mr Majestyk (Apr 9, 2020)

M5 II with bigger grip, integrated 3.7MP EVF, joystick, dual card slots, bigger buffer, further improvements to AF, higher res LCD, better weatheer sealing, more video features, essentially a 7DIII in EOS-M mount would be a huge improvement over the M6 II. Worth another $300.


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## brad-man (Apr 9, 2020)

davidespinosa said:


> I got the RP and RF 35mm thinking I could carry it around daily, but it's too big.
> So I added a used M6 and EF-M 22mm. Much smaller.
> I thought about selling the RP, but I can't bring myself to do it !


Yup. The quality to quantity ratio of the 22 is unmatched. I still have the original M, and it with the 22 is so easy to carry and produces amazingly good photos, even with that tired old 18MP sensor.


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## i_SH (Apr 9, 2020)

Let Canon release a decent full-time zoom for such a camera, for example 15 (17) -70 / 2.8-4 and then there will be something to talk about with it


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## deanmejos (Apr 9, 2020)

Exciting times! I have the M5 and while I know it's far from the best APS-C MILC, I'm really liking it. I'm not blind to its flaws and weaknesses and it has been a source of frustration...but I just enjoy using it. 

I have half a mind to sell my 6DII for the M6II but I know deep down that FF is where it's at as far as IQ goes...but these M cameras are really fun to use.


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## pj1974 (Apr 9, 2020)

I own the Canon M5 with a bunch of lenses, including Canon's 22mm f/2, 15-45mm, 18-150mm and the Samyang 12mm f/2.
From a 'throw in my bag and take along' perspective, I love the size and compactness, particularly the 22mm as a prime or the 15-45mm as a zoom.
The ergonomics work pretty well considering what it is, and particularly that I do not use my M5 with any large lenses.

My main cameras for over 15 years have been DSLRs. Currently the 80D is a very versatile all round APS-C model. I have many EF and EF-S lenses... but all of them (on any DSLR body) are significantly larger than the M5 with equivalent lenses.

I used to own the M10 - which was really nice and compact without the viewfinder / hump. However from a usability perspective, a camera with just a rear screen is almost as frustrating for me as using a smart phone - both in terms of ergonomics (holding out from body) as well as . Hence I gave that (and a spare 22mm f/2 I bought 2nd hand) to my nieces. 

The fact that I have a good astrocombination with the Samyang 12mm f/2 AND the portability are the main reasons I see me staying with the Canon M series into the future. I like portability, but along with an EVF.
So a M5mkII would be particularly attractive to me. It fits the gap between a FF mirrorless (or DSLR) and my smart phone. Image quality of the M series is great, while still being compact and portable. The M6mkII indicated how serious Canon remain with their M series, it has some great features - and I hope the M5mkII includes all of the goodies from the M6mkii, as well as a few more (e.g. IBIS) . 

I expect I will buy the R5 camera if the 'as-yet-unknown' feature and functionality (AF, IQ) are like I expect they will be. So I'll probably maintain a 3 tier system:
1) FF mirrorless (for the majority of my photography and videography) - with great IQ and 'all day ergonomics'
2) APS-C mirrorless (for when I am going out and require a more portable package, to still have very good image quality)
3) smart phone (for when I am just taking unplanned 'quick photos and videos on the go' (as my smart phone is always with me) .

It'll be interesting to see what Canon is going to provide in the next little while, in terms of my tiers 1) and 2) above. No concrete details have yet been revealed about a possible M5 replacement. I would love an M5mkII with faster AF (particularly in low light), a higher resolution (and faster updating) EVF and IBIS being the top items on my wish-list.


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## Mr Majestyk (Apr 9, 2020)

Richard Vernick said:


> Would be nice to have an integrated EVF and better weather sealing, but otherwise will just keep my M5 and M6ii. Make great travel cameras an companion cameras for my larger Canon gear.


 Rich you don't happen to live in Florida and by chance did a trip to Iceland in 2013 with Greg Downing by any chance. If so this is Whayne from Australia. If not sorry for bothering you.


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## jolyonralph (Apr 9, 2020)

M5 Mark II with the M6 II sensor PLUS IBIS would be awesome.

I'm sure that the other will be the M50 Mark II probably with the same body, maybe even with IBIS too, but with a 24mpx sensor and older viewfinder.


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## Mahk43 (Apr 9, 2020)

peters said:


> I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?
> 
> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?



I think CANON is more thinking of the end of the compact cameras market, completley replaced by smartphone users. And also the fact that APSC DSLR ar less and less wanted by the market.
A minority of still photography lovers that understand smartphone are useless to take real pictures, will go to mirrorless (plus the ones that find external lenses on old school bodies "fashion"). CANON has to offer a cheap lineup to give an answer for low incomes customers
The APSC mirrorless offer in CANON lineup cannot be just RF mount because it is more expensive to manufacture because of the bigger diameter. You cannot make light bodies. Such a big diameter is useless for an APSC sensor
Regarding all these point, I think they are extending the M lineup to cover all the EF-S actual range.
It should be as cheap as actual APSC DSLR lineup, with the higher price at the level of the cheaper RF body, as the higher APSC DSLR (7D) as at the price level of cheappest FF (6D).
Also concerning the "old fashion bodies", CANON usually don't do it on the expert/pro bodies for which they are 100% on efficiency and quality and 0% on marketing fashion, but they will certainly do it with M bodies if necessary to sell more.


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## TinTin (Apr 9, 2020)

zonoskar said:


> An M5-II with the pop-up EVF from the latest patent please... And throw in IBIS too if it's not too much bother.



I think the "pop-up EVF from the latest patent" requires that the rear screen is a tilting type rather than a fully articulating one. (The eye-sensor, which detects when a face approaches the viewfinder is in the same assembly as the display, so you wouldn't want it to be possible to turn this inwards if an eye-sensor is mounted on it, as it would mean the EVF would be on permanently, using power, even when no one is looking at it.)

An "ordinary" pop-up viewfinder, with the eye-sensor in the pop-up assembly itself, would enable either type of rear display to be used.


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## TinTin (Apr 9, 2020)

Mahk43 said:


> Such a big diameter is useless for an APSC sensor



Nikon's Z series has an even larger diameter mount, and that hasn't stopped them producing a very well received mirrorless camera with an APS-C sensor, the Z-50.


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## Andy Westwood (Apr 9, 2020)

It’s great to see so much love for the EOS M Series on this forum.

I do like my M5 for more casual shooting although I find it frustrating sometimes autofocus wise when reverting from my EOS R. I’m sure this would be addressed if Canon produce an M5 II.

If Canon had put the Vari Angle Screen on the M6 II I might have been tempted to go for one of those with the add-on viewfinder. I do like the idea of an add-on VF as it keeps the camera very compact in situations when a VF isn’t required.

Residual values excluding the M5 sadly, but all other current M Bodies is very strong noting second-hand sales on eBay, particularly the M50 proving there is a good demand for this style of camera.

I would be very particularly interested in upgrading my M5 and eagerly await news on the up and coming M bodies. As it doesn’t look like a 7D III will ever be produced at least not soon so something in the M Series to plug that gap of a 7D III would be nice so long as the body is kept compact.


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## chong67 (Apr 9, 2020)

Canon have so many crop camera. Does it replace the M50 too?


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## SteveC (Apr 9, 2020)

TinTin said:


> I think the "pop-up EVF from the latest patent" requires that the rear screen is a tilting type rather than a fully articulating one. (The eye-sensor, which detects when a face approaches the viewfinder is in the same assembly as the display, so you wouldn't want it to be possible to turn this inwards if an eye-sensor is mounted on it, as it would mean the EVF would be on permanently, using power, even when no one is looking at it.)



So on a camera like the M50, if the screen is turned inwards and you put the camera up to your eye...by your logic the screen should come on, even though you can't possibly see the screen. Not full time like you're suggesting would happen with the popup EVF.

Since I doubt they'd do something quite this absurd, I suspect they've solved this problem and on the M50 to boot. Maybe by detecting the screen orientation and simply shutting it off whenever it's facing into the camera. (We already know they can flip the image on the display upside down if the screen is upside down in "vlogger/selfie" mode; so clearly they can sense the screen orientation.)


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## picperfect (Apr 9, 2020)

Andy Westwood said:


> I do like my M5 for more casual shooting although I find it frustrating sometimes autofocus wise when reverting from my EOS R. I’m sure this would be addressed if Canon produce an M5 II.



Both EOS M50 and even more so EOS M6 II have way better AF implementation than M5. Any replacement of M5 should be at least as good as M6 II, but probably even better, especially if it turns out to be an *EOS M7* rather than just a M5 II [which sources said Canon would not make].


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## picperfect (Apr 9, 2020)

i_SH said:


> Let Canon release a decent full-time zoom for such a camera, for example 15 (17) -70 / 2.8-4 and then there will be something to talk about with it



there was/is a canonwatch rumor for an *EF-M 18-45mm f/2-4 IS STM* 

Personally I'd prefer a "somewhat higher end" constant aperture EF-M 15-60mm f/4.0 IS STM. I don't fall any longer for large apertures at wide end that only apply to the first 2 or 3 mm of the focal length range. I'd much rather have some decent IQ, very compact and highly affordable constant f/4 zoom in EF-M lineup.


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## mcfrlnd (Apr 9, 2020)

I'm not on the market for an APS-C camera, but I've played with Canon's M lineup. What would be nice IMO would be a robust body that better fits in the hand based off of the M5. All of the M bodies are just a bit too small...like handling a bar of Lava soap. IBIS and latest AF would be imperative and a permanently attached EVF. Finally, lenses that don't feel cheap, and with metal mounts. Nothing queues up buyers remorse more than handling a lens that you think will crumble in your hands. Leave the smaller bodies to the G(#)X lineup...


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## Mahk43 (Apr 9, 2020)

TinTin said:


> Nikon's Z series has an even larger diameter mount, and that hasn't stopped them producing a very well received mirrorless camera with an APS-C sensor, the Z-50.



Yes but it is useless. As CANON has allready a mount, the M, and if they want to keep the price low, they should continue into the M for APSC ML.


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## picperfect (Apr 9, 2020)

Mahk43 said:


> Yes but it is useless. As CANON has allready a mount, the M, and if they want to keep the price low, they should continue into the M for APSC ML.



I am also convinced that Canon's dual mount strategy is a lot smarter than the compromises Sony (E mount limiting for FF) and Nikon (Z-mount too large for really compact APS-C bodies and lenses) took. 

crop sensor/APS-C gear has only 2 reasons to exist: 
1. significantly smaller/lighter/less bulky than FF (cameras and lenses)
2. significantly less expensive than FF (cameras and lenses)

Only Canon EOS M fully delivers on both points. Fuji is not small enough and too expensive, especially lenses. Sony is not affordable and good enough, especially lenses.


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## TinTin (Apr 9, 2020)

SteveC said:


> So on a camera like the M50, if the screen is turned inwards and you put the camera up to your eye...by your logic the screen should come on, even though you can't possibly see the screen. Not full time like you're suggesting would happen with the popup EVF.


No, if the screen is turned inwards, the eye-detection sensor, mounted in the same "flap" as the screen, would also face inwards and would thus be covered by the body of the camera, this being interpreted by the eye-sensor as a face at the viewfinder. Therefore, it would switch the screen OFF (not on) and switch ON the EVF, regardless of whether you're actually looking through the viewfinder. This would waste power by having the EVF activated when it didn't need to be.


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## Whowe (Apr 9, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> M5 II with bigger grip, integrated 3.7MP EVF, joystick, dual card slots, bigger buffer, further improvements to AF, higher res LCD, better weatheer sealing, more video features, essentially a 7DIII in EOS-M mount would be a huge improvement over the M6 II. Worth another $300.



I agree. I would like to upgrade from my 7Dii, but there is not a good option. One option is to spend a lot on the R5 and use a crop mode to get the same reach as an APS-C sensor. (Yes, I would use crop mode because with small birds, the rest of the frame is wasted and no reason to deal with larger file sizes than needed.) I could see a plan where Canon keeps all APS-C cameras in the M series and full frame in the R series. If they are NOT going to make an R version of the 7D with APS-C, then a high end M series, weather sealing, etc makes sense. I would go that route.


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## SteveC (Apr 9, 2020)

TinTin said:


> No, if the screen is turned inwards, the eye-detection sensor, mounted in the same "flap" as the screen, would also face inwards and would thus be covered by the body of the camera, this being interpreted by the eye-sensor as a face at the viewfinder. Therefore, it would switch the screen OFF (not on) and switch ON the EVF, regardless of whether you're actually looking through the viewfinder. This would waste power by having the EVF activated when it didn't need to be.



You're right, I had it bass-ackwards.


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## Whowe (Apr 9, 2020)

So, along the 7D Miii lines, there was also a rumor on this site about a 100-400 APS-
C lens, most likely for the M-Mount. That would pair well with the idea of a high end 7D successor in the M series.


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## canonmike (Apr 9, 2020)

peters said:


> I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?
> 
> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?


As an avid hiker, the M50 with a 22mm F2 EF-M mount lens is hard to beat. I can put this combo in a pocket. Can you do that with an RP combo? There are more than a handful of us out here that love our M series bodies and are most happy that Canon is still actively supporting the M series mount for a group of people that are definitely still buying them. There are also many out there that think all cameras are a waste, obsoleted by their respective favorite cell ph cams. Bottom line, it's nice to have choices and alternatives that fit our particular needs.


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## Rocky (Apr 9, 2020)

I moved from 40D to M. I have never look back. Cell phone is a good tool as long as you look at the picture on the cell phone. My wife uses the 7S and I use the M50 and M2 when we travel. When we look at the picture on our device. a lot of time the picture from 7S actually beats the M's, for both indoor and out door, especially indoor. After we go home and look at them at the full computer screen (24") the table turns. At pixel level, it is even worse. I am still searching for an anwer. May be someone in the forum can shine some light on it


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## picperfect (Apr 10, 2020)

TinTin said:


> Nikon's Z series has an even larger diameter mount, and that hasn't stopped them producing a very well received mirrorless camera with an APS-C sensor, the Z-50.



It remains to be seen whether or not Nikon will be successful with their Z-mount APS-C system. While the Z50 certainly is an interesting first start, their system is saddled with 2 major handicaps:
1. they came extremely late to the party
2. Z-mount is way "oversized" for APS-C image circle. Compared to Canon EF-M, Sony E and Fuji X it does not allow for as compact cameras and lenses. Even when a small segment of potential users prefers "chunky" camera bodies, it is fairly easy to make camera body bigger or add additional grips etc. to a very compact system, but it is impossible to shave size off a larger system. 

Overall, success of any crop sensor system depends directly on how well it achieves two goals: 1. smaller/lighter than FF and 2. less expensive than FF gear. Canon EOS M is market leader in mirrorfree ILC systems, because it scores highest of all competitors - towards both targets.Especially M50 was a major breakthrough: outstanding price/value ratio and compact form factor. Nothing directly comparable from any other maker.


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## Mahk43 (Apr 10, 2020)

Rocky said:


> I moved from 40D to M. I have never look back. Cell phone is a good tool as long as you look at the picture on the cell phone. My wife uses the 7S and I use the M50 and M2 when we travel. When we look at the picture on our device. a lot of time the picture from 7S actually beats the M's, for both indoor and out door, especially indoor. After we go home and look at them at the full computer screen (24") the table turns. At pixel level, it is even worse. I am still searching for an anwer. May be someone in the forum can shine some light on it



The display on the cell phone is developped to be very good with a lot of pixels in a very tiny area (same level of pixel the phone camera has), where the display on your camera is just a control display with less pixels, to frame the picture and check if parameters are well adjusted. Even if they made big progress on camera screens lately, they stay below a phone, because it is not the purpose.

The number of pixel on the cell phone is high, but with a little sensor. It fit perfectly for a little screen with high definition, for both, pixels are very tiny. But light per pixel is very low and to compensate the loss of light they make aftertreatments that lower again the quality of the picture, but fit perfectly for their screen. No secret, all little artificial effects you can find on a phone are lowering the quality of the picture (but they are smart enough to make it not visible on the phone screen).
Then if you want to display this kind of picture in a bigger screen, even if the number of pixel is the same, you will make the defects biggers visually. You can experience it just printing a phone picture on postcard size.The result will be bad and not homogeneous. Because making a picture bigger than the original shot is the baddest thing you want to do. You can limit the loss using a good software, but it is never good enough. In most cases, the way you display (computer OS, print website) will drive the oversize and you will not be able to control it or make adjustments, so it is often bad.

In the other hand, the picture from the camera is standardized and calibrated by the manufacturer to fit the more common and wider screens or uses like your 24". 
If you check your pictures from the M into the phone you should allready see a better comparative level, but not yet totally in favor of the camera because depends on the OS/software/app/website that will reduce the picture to display it. Esay to eperiment with gradients or over exposed areas on instagram or facebook.
This is the proof these medias (mainly phone app) reduce the quality of your picture when you post it, so a big quality for this kind of media is useless. The phone manufacturers know it, and this is their main market, so they do what is necessary for it but not more.
If you process your pictures from your camera on a software like lightroom, you can export it in the best ratio quality/size for the use you plan after, so with a camera, it is possible to fit perfectly a phone screen, but also a good quality print or wider screens.

To sum up:

Phone picture are ok for phone/phone app use only, no tool can adapt keeping quality for bigger sizes.
Camera picture are ok for almost every uses when you use the good tool to fit the size.


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## kocmonabt (Apr 10, 2020)

peters said:


> I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?
> 
> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?


The lenses. I don’t see Canon adding f2 or f2.8 primes to the RF line. It’s about professional use and low light. The M is about traveling light. Let’s wait for the RF 85/1.8 and M 52/2 and see the difference. It’s going to be significant at least from traveling photographer’s point of view. 
There is market for both series.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 11, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> No, I really wanted an M like the original M, without EVF. I hate the EVF on the M50, good riddance! The solitary bees emerged this weekend and I did notice that I very much want the tilty-flippy screen back, the M6II screen articulation is only useful if you like photographing nose hair.
> 
> If I really need and EVF+flash I use the RP, which I do like. Same screen as the M50, but much better optics in front of it.



Maybe not for you, then. But eight other folks agreed with my previous comment enough to "like" it. How many did that for yours?


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## Michael Clark (Apr 11, 2020)

peters said:


> I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?
> 
> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?



It's the number one selling mirrorless system on the planet right now?
That revenue stream is necessary for Canon to maintain profitability in the face of a drastic reduction in overall demand for ILCs?
The people at whom the M-series system is aimed is a different (and more numerous) group of buyers than the people at whom the R-series system is aimed?


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## Michael Clark (Apr 11, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> M5 II with bigger grip, integrated 3.7MP EVF, joystick, dual card slots, bigger buffer, further improvements to AF, higher res LCD, better weatheer sealing, more video features, essentially a 7DIII in EOS-M mount would be a huge improvement over the M6 II. Worth another $300.



I'd be interested in such a camera, but I do not think Canon is interested in taking the M-series that far upmarket.


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## SteveC (Apr 11, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> I'd be interested in such a camera, but I do not think Canon is interested in taking the M-series that far upmarket.



I wouldn't be surprised to work their way a _little_ bit up from the M6-II however. For instance, a camera like the M6-II with a viewfinder, flip screen and IBIS. A joystick and 2 slots (like Mr, Majestyk also mentioned) would be "pro level" features, though (yeah, and I'm exposing myself to some incoming fire by using that term; I'll duck right after I hit POST REPLY). Maybe incremental AF improvements and video features? Especially if that's "just software." (Again, I will duck.)


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## Michael Clark (Apr 11, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to work their way a _little_ bit up from the M6-II however. For instance, a camera like the M6-II with a viewfinder, flip screen and IBIS. A joystick and 2 slots (like Mr, Majestyk also mentioned) would be "pro level" features, though (yeah, and I'm exposing myself to some incoming fire by using that term; I'll duck right after I hit POST REPLY). Maybe incremental AF improvements and video features? Especially if that's "just software." (Again, I will duck.)



If it's aimed at the 7D Mark II crowd, IBIS would cost more than it is worth. The short exposure times needed for sports/action (or even low cost reportage) lower the value of having IBIS in a body.


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## SteveC (Apr 11, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If it's aimed at the 7D Mark II crowd, IBIS would cost more than it is worth. The short exposure times needed for sports/action (or even low cost reportage) lower the value of having IBIS in a body.



I suspect what I described wouldn't satisfy them anyway; 2 card slots and weatherproofing is a big deal, both to them and to the birders who also like the 7D.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 11, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I suspect what I described wouldn't satisfy them anyway; 2 card slots and weatherproofing is a big deal, both to them and to the birders who also like the 7D.



Agreed, though weatherproofing is far more desired than dual card slots for the action/sports/bird shooters. Even with a camera having two card slots, most are willing to accept the minimal "risk" of only using one card in exchange for larger buffers when shooting long continuous bursts. (Well, maybe unless one is using a camera like the 1D X Mark III that has a near unlimited buffer due to the incredible speed of CFExpress.)

That's why I stated earlier that although I'd be interested in such a camera, I doubt Canon is.


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## Andy Westwood (Apr 11, 2020)

When I bought my M5 on launch it was mostly for web video clips, because of auto-focus in video mode, something my 1D and many other cameras didn’t do at that time. It also doubled up as a B/C camera and my fun, casual shooting, compact holiday camera.

I don’t regret buying the M5, much praise here has also been given to the petite 22mm f2 pancake lens, a fabulous little lens and perfectly suited to a compact camera range such as the M series.

Had the M50 been out at the time I bought my M5 I would have bought an M50 over the M5, because of the improved auto-focus system and Vari Angle Screen and it was hundreds of £’s cheaper on launch at that time making it excellent value.

As some have already stated on here the M50 is currently the biggest selling Mirrorless camera on the market, with good reason. It’s not a great camera at any one thing but a very good all-round compact camera. The M Series is a system that pro’s, enthusiasts and beginners can all use and get something from.

Extra weather sealing maybe! But I can’t ever see Canon putting dual card slots in compact M series bodies. I’m hoping they make other improvements such as higher res screens and EVF’s as well as enhanced sensors, and processors so they can make improvements with fps, ISO and auto-focus and add IBIS.


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## picperfect (Apr 11, 2020)

Andy Westwood said:


> But I can’t ever see Canon putting dual card slots in compact M series bodies.



Any EOS M body sized like M50 or up (M5, M6) can easily accomodate dual SD UHS-II card slots that are more than fast enough even for very high fps and 4k video [see Fuji X-T4 with uncropped 4k60 and 20fps stills continuous].

Canon really could and should launch an "EOS M7" with 32 MP sensor (as in M6 II), only slightly bigger than M5 and with all features *at least on par* with Fuji X-T4. With state of the art AF, state of the art EVF, IBIS, full weathersealing and a "real" powerpack like the one in X-T4 for 500 shots CIPA. It would be better than any 7D III DSLR could have been. 

Price it at €/USD 1499 MSRP (body) and sell it by the boatload. With nice profit.


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## SecureGSM (Apr 11, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Any EOS M body sized like M50 or up (M5, M6) can easily accomodate dual SD UHS-II card slots that are more than fast enough even for very high fps and 4k video [see Fuji X-T4 with uncropped 4k60 and 20fps stills continuous].
> 
> Canon really could and should launch an "EOS M7" with 32 MP sensor (as in M6 II), only slightly bigger than M5 and with all features *at least on par* with Fuji X-T4. With state of the art AF, state of the art EVF, IBIS, full weathersealing and a "real" powerpack like the one in X-T4 for 500 shots CIPA. It would be better than any 7D III DSLR could have been.
> 
> Price it at €/USD 1499 MSRP (body) and sell it by the boatload. With nice profit.


the only products that currently sell by boatloads is : surgical masks and disinfectants. oh, toilet paper was also flying of the shelf in land Downunder up until now.

EOS R5 crop mode is the only real alternative at this stage. albeit not at $1500 price mark. I am sorry to disappoint you. M7, 7d or R7 is not happening anytime soon if ever. take my words to the bank.


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## stevelee (Apr 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> the only products that currently sell by boatloads is : surgical masks and disinfectants. oh, toilet paper was also flying of the shelf in land Downunder up until now.


None of those things are even on the shelves here, so hardly selling at all.


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## picperfect (Apr 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> the only products that currently sell by boatloads is : surgical masks and disinfectants. oh, toilet paper was also flying of the shelf in land Downunder up until now.
> 
> EOS R5 crop mode is the only real alternative at this stage. albeit not at $1500 price mark. I am sorry to disappoint you. M7, 7d or R7 is not happening anytime soon if ever. take my words to the bank.



EOS R5 will be so expensive it will not sell well. Especially now with so many pro's and enthusiasts with less or no income. 

R5 also is a total overkill on video side (8k ffs) for majority of potential buyers. 5D audience is mainly stills photographers. And R6 specs sound "off track" as well. 20 MP meh. I dont need or want 50 MP, but will not accept less than 30-40 MP in a FF camera in 2020 and i am quite sure, many others will neither. Plus decent and affordable RF glass is a real requirement. not 8k. those who really need it shall buy a true video cam. 

so, a fully competitive, sensibly priced EOS M7 as "hi end" option for M lineup would sell very well. 

many many more people are able and willing to pay 1500 rather than 3500. especially for the next year(s).


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## SecureGSM (Apr 11, 2020)

picperfect said:


> EOS R5 will be so expensive it will not sell well.


Just don’t bet your house on it or you will end up living under the bridge, my friend.


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## picperfect (Apr 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Just don’t bet your house on it or you will end up living under the bridge, my friend.



just wait for the R5 price, my friend. ;-)


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## canonmike (Apr 11, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Any EOS M body sized like M50 or up (M5, M6) can easily accomodate dual SD UHS-II card slots that are more than fast enough even for very high fps and 4k video [see Fuji X-T4 with uncropped 4k60 and 20fps stills continuous].
> 
> Canon really could and should launch an "EOS M7" with 32 MP sensor (as in M6 II), only slightly bigger than M5 and with all features *at least on par* with Fuji X-T4. With state of the art AF, state of the art EVF, IBIS, full weathersealing and a "real" powerpack like the one in X-T4 for 500 shots CIPA. It would be better than any 7D III DSLR could have been.
> 
> Price it at €/USD 1499 MSRP (body) and sell it by the boatload. With nice profit.


I have to occasionally remind myself how happy I am with all the electronic mfgs, given the slew of new eqpt they keep developing in a falling camera sales market. Kudos to them all. I love them all, even though I will prob never purchase most of their wonderful products. I will now wipe the collective drool off my face, as I salivate over the coming Canon R5 and all the new lenses to go with the R series bodies. I see a lot of happy dances going on when one can finally put his hands on same. Stay safe out there, fellow CR posters. I cannot wait for the first hands on reviews of all the new gear and only hope that said gear is even half of what we're expecting it to be. If it's everything we're expecting, I'm not sure I'll be able to contain myself!!! Meanwhile, the anticipation builds. Bring it on Canon.


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## SteveC (Apr 11, 2020)

stevelee said:


> None of those things are even on the shelves here, so hardly selling at all.



Oh, they're selling all right...straight off the back of the truck.

Or if they get further than that, they get pulled off the pallet before the pallet even makes it to the shelf. (I saw this happen with a pallet of TP about three weeks ago. Never got to the TP aisle.)


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## SteveC (Apr 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Just don’t bet your house on it or you will end up living under the bridge, my friend.



There sure do seem to be a lot of non-regulars coming on here to insist the price will be well north of 4,000 kwatloos. (Generic term for EUR/USD/GBP since prices seem to be the same number in all three.)


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## mister ruggles (Apr 11, 2020)

I would love to see a continuation of the m100/200 line with a mic jack added. Everything about these little cams is perfect for vlogging and Youtube production.


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## SecureGSM (Apr 12, 2020)

SteveC said:


> There sure do seem to be a lot of non-regulars coming on here to insist the price will be well north of 4,000 kwatloos. (Generic term for EUR/USD/GBP since prices seem to be the same number in all three.)


The price that is north of 4000 kwatloos is highly unlikely. Some people are just being silly.


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## Whowe (Apr 12, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> the only products that currently sell by boatloads is : surgical masks and disinfectants. oh, toilet paper was also flying of the shelf in land Downunder up until now.
> 
> EOS R5 crop mode is the only real alternative at this stage. albeit not at $1500 price mark. I am sorry to disappoint you. M7, 7d or R7 is not happening anytime soon if ever. take my words to the bank.



I agree we will not see another 7D. I also do not believe we will see a "R7" 7D replacement, at least anytime soon. However, the CR Guy just hinted on the video with the Ordinary Filmmaker that the other M series would be a "high end" version. IF you take the M6 and make a higher end version, that could be a great camera and similar to an "M7," but we don't know if it would be geared more toward sports/wildlife or just higher end including video specs, etc.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 12, 2020)

stevelee said:


> None of those things are even on the shelves here, so hardly selling at all.



They're selling plenty in large cases or 5 gallon bottles and 50 gallon drums to commercial customers. Not everything sold is sold at a retail store.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 12, 2020)

SteveC said:


> There sure do seem to be a lot of non-regulars coming on here to insist the price will be well north of 4,000 kwatloos. (Generic term for EUR/USD/GBP since prices seem to be the same number in all three.)





SecureGSM said:


> The price that is north of 4000 kwatloos is highly unlikely. Some people are just being silly.




It's all the spec sheet fanboys have left.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 12, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Just don’t bet your house on it or you will end up living under the bridge, my friend.



If this worldwide economic catastrophe goes on much longer we're all going to be living under bridges.


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## brad-man (Apr 12, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I agree we will not see another 7D. I also do not believe we will see a "R7" 7D replacement, at least anytime soon. However, the CR Guy just hinted on the video with the Ordinary Filmmaker that the other M series would be a "high end" version. IF you take the M6 and make a higher end version, that could be a great camera and similar to an "M7," but we don't know if it would be geared more toward sports/wildlife or just higher end including video specs, etc.


An M5-II with the M6-II's hardware would be pretty close to being a 7D, other than build quality and ergonomics. R5 will be the FF version. Those are likely the choices for a 7DII replacement for at least a year or two...


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## brad-man (Apr 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If this worldwide economic catastrophe goes on much longer we're all going to be living under bridges.


Then we'll have to have a new photo category in the image gallery: _troll condos, _not necessarily the internet kind...


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## SteveC (Apr 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It's all the spec sheet fanboys have left.



If you mean the people trying to exploit spec sheet fanboyism to strip away Canon customers, I agree. We have a camera whose spec sheets will beat their spec sheets hands down. So the only thing to do is claim it will be overpriced and still not as good a value as you-know-who.


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## Andy Westwood (Apr 12, 2020)

How interesting the interview Craig did, particularly his comment re the 2 new EOS M bodies. The first he stated being the M50 II, but the second EOS M body Craig suggested this body may be the new standard setter in APS-C sized sensor cameras.

I really hope so! Go Canon! Go Canon! with the R5 and R6 and possibly a new standard setting crop senor body, is this the start of Canon taking back it’s supremacy of the Camera market!


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## picperfect (Apr 12, 2020)

Andy Westwood said:


> I really hope so! Go Canon! Go Canon! with the R5 and R6 and possibly a new standard setting crop senor body, is this the start of Canon taking back it’s supremacy of the Camera market!



well, i am less optimistic here. lets wait and see if Canon really comes up with a totally convincing "EOS M7", fully on par with or even better than Fuji X-T4. 

R5 is of no interest to me, way too much video stuff i dont want and would have to pay a lot for. and R6 specs rumoured so far make no sense at all to me. 20 MP? no way. but we shall see. i'm not in a hurry.


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## stevelee (Apr 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> They're selling plenty in lage cases or 5 gallon bottles and 50 gallon drums to commercial customers. Not everything sold is sold at a retail store.


They can’t fly off the shelf if they never get on the shelf.


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## Whowe (Apr 13, 2020)

brad-man said:


> An M5-II with the M6-II's hardware would be pretty close to being a 7D, other than build quality and ergonomics. R5 will be the FF version. Those are likely the choices for a 7DII replacement for at least a year or two...


I agree. It may be an M5-ii. I would not expect 2 cards slots, but improved weather sealing for a "higher end" M series would be a good upgrade if they want to market it to sports/wildlife. Maybe market it with an EF adapter and offer a battery grip. That would help pull people used to the larger 7D style to use the M series for sports/wildlife.


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## vxcalais (Apr 13, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> No, I really wanted an M like the original M, without EVF. I hate the EVF on the M50, good riddance! The solitary bees emerged this weekend and I did notice that I very much want the tilty-flippy screen back, the M6II screen articulation is only useful if you like photographing nose hair.
> 
> If I really need and EVF+flash I use the RP, which I do like. Same screen as the M50, but much better optics in front of it.



Most kits come with the EVF included with 15-45 and bonus 22mm with the M6ii. Well in Australia at least. I used Sony Nex for many years and the M6ii was perfect considering I was keen on the X100f. I use a small rig mainly but the m6ii is crazy small on its own.


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## vxcalais (Apr 13, 2020)

peters said:


> I dont realy understand why the M series is still necessary with the R. The RP is allready super small and could get cheaper in the near future. Why not replace any M camera with a RP?
> 
> Or they could build a RF camera with an APS-C Sensor... Shouldnt it be super easy to build small APS-C lenses for the R mount? So this could easily replace the M. Whats the necessary of this series?


Have you seen the price of the lenses ??? It will get cheaper in 10 years when something else comes along. EF lenses havent dropped that much..... RP have been getting mad discounts like 30% off flash sales but even then, they are body only sales. So on its own (body) it can be cheaper than a M6ii but chuck on a lens and no its in a different price league. Still an amazing system but m needs to remain to compete with Sony aps-c and m43.


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## SteveC (Apr 13, 2020)

vxcalais said:


> Most kits come with the EVF included with 15-45 and bonus 22mm with the M6ii. Well in Australia at least. I used Sony Nex for many years and the M6ii was perfect considering I was keen on the X100f. I use a small rig mainly but the m6ii is crazy small on its own.



The US kits were a lens and an EVF. If you already had those lenses, and wanted an EVF, with some sort of discount, you were SOL.


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## vxcalais (Apr 14, 2020)

SteveC said:


> The US kits were a lens and an EVF. If you already had those lenses, and wanted an EVF, with some sort of discount, you were SOL.



It would be beneficial if the kits were atleast consistent accross different countries. Maybe due to our smaller market it was used to compete compared to US where they always will sell more with 10 times the population.


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## SteveC (Apr 14, 2020)

vxcalais said:


> It would be beneficial if the kits were atleast consistent accross different countries. Maybe due to our smaller market it was used to compete compared to US where they always will sell more with 10 times the population.



I hear tell that when they held a conference with their retailers, some said, "Why no kit with just the EVF? Why?" And Canon basically didn't answer the question.


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## picperfect (Apr 14, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I hear tell that when they held a conference with their retailers, some said, "Why no kit with just the EVF? Why?" And Canon basically didn't answer the question.



Because Canon would not be able to selll the sub-par EF-M 15-45 other than forcing it upon customers in kits. it is a shame they discontinued the previous 18-55 kit lens, which had much better IQ and build quality with the sorry 15-45. more wide-angle would have been ok, but the 15-45 is solely the result of a shameless cost-cutting exercise. It is the sore thumb in the otherwise good to excellent EF-M lens lineup.

whats really missing is a better IQ standard zoom e.g. a reasonably sized and affordably priced constant aperture EF-M 15-60mm/4.0 IS STM at €/$ 499, available as a separate SKU and as kit option - rather than forced kits with 15-45.


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## koenkooi (Apr 14, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Because Canon would not be able to selll the sub-par EF-M 15-45 other than forcing it upon customers in kits. it is a shame they discontinued the previous 18-55 kit lens, which had much better IQ and build quality with the sorry 15-45. more wide-angle would have been ok, but the 15-45 is solely the result of a shameless cost-cutting exercise. It is the sore thumb in the otherwise good to excellent EF-M lens lineup.



On the other hand, my copy of the 15-45 came with a more-than-free M100  The kit was €10 cheaper than buying the lens separately. 
For the M6II the kits weren't a good deal, I could buy the camera from an authorized local dealer and then the lens and evf using grey import and save money. Since I already had the 15-45 and didn't really need the EVF I went for the just the body. A body + evf kit would've been very tempting, though.


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## SteveC (Apr 14, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Because Canon would not be able to selll the sub-par EF-M 15-45 other than forcing it upon customers in kits. it is a shame they discontinued the previous 18-55 kit lens, which had much better IQ and build quality with the sorry 15-45. more wide-angle would have been ok, but the 15-45 is solely the result of a shameless cost-cutting exercise. It is the sore thumb in the otherwise good to excellent EF-M lens lineup.
> 
> whats really missing is a better IQ standard zoom e.g. a reasonably sized and affordably priced constant aperture EF-M 15-60mm/4.0 IS STM at €/$ 499, available as a separate SKU and as kit option - rather than forced kits with 15-45.



My M50 came with that lens, and I don't think I used it much after I got my hands on an adapter. I never really evaluated it; I just had other lenses that would do more and dropped it (figuratively speaking).

They did have a second option for the M6-II, a longer zoom (they've had several different ones of this too, and I don't remember which particular one it was). I didn't have that lens yet, but since I've been happy with my Tamron 18-200 for the M mount, I had no interest in a lens with less range!

I did save a little bit of money by buying the 15-45 kit, and selling the lens immediately.



koenkooi said:


> On the other hand, my copy of the 15-45 came with a more-than-free M100  The kit was €10 cheaper than buying the lens separately.
> For the M6II the kits weren't a good deal, I could buy the camera from an authorized local dealer and then the lens and evf using grey import and save money. Since I already had the 15-45 and didn't really need the EVF I went for the just the body. A body + evf kit would've been very tempting, though.



The lack of a viewfinder was a major shortcoming of the M6-II for me at least, but for me it was fixable as I have no issues with using an EVF (the hotshoe issue doesn't matter to me). The EVF in fact has a couple of advantages; the camera will pack smaller if you remove it (at the risk of losing the EVF, to be sure), and it seems to hold the camera further from the face.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 17, 2020)

stevelee said:


> They can’t fly off the shelf if they never get on the shelf.



True, they're not flying off the shelves, but they are selling in mass quantities.


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## stevelee (Apr 18, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> True, they're not flying off the shelves, but they are selling in mass quantities.


And apparently, only in mass quantities.


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