# Images of the Canon EOS M6 & EVF Have Leaked



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 8, 2017)

```
Images of the upcoming Canon EOS M6 mirrorless camera body have leaked out ahead of the official announcement.</p>
<p>By the looks of the images, this is very close to an EOS M5 without the built-in EVF. I really like the looks of the silver version of the camera.</p>
<p>Images of the new EVF for the EOS M6 can also be seen below.</p>
<p>Not related to the Canon EOS M6 is the brand new EF-S 18-55 f/4-5.6 IS STM lens for the new EOS Rebel T7i and EOS Rebel 77D.</p>
<p><strong>EF-S 18-55mm F4-5.6-EF IS STM</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Lens construction: 10 12 sheets group</li>
<li>Minimum focusing distance: 0.25M</li>
<li>Filter diameter: 58Mm</li>
<li>Size: 66.5 × 61.8Mm</li>
<li>Weight: 215g</li>
</ul>

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## Bernard (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*

I wonder if the old electronic viewfinder will work with the new camera. It seems wasteful to buy a new EVF when the old one works just fine.


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## -pekr- (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 Images Have Leaked*

Don't like the leather design much, nor the sticking out neck strap holders, and wheels miss on the nice red accent as G7X has.

Well, not that much of a shock as M5 design was for me. It was so ugly, that over time, I kind of started to like it  Might consider the silver combination variant for the first time - looks kind of retro (rangefinder).

Now - curious what's inside ...

Oh, and the exposure compensation dial. I am either a bad photographer for not using exposure compensation, or this is a wasted space. Would prefer ISO dial anytime ...


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## Sharlin (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*

I wonder if there's something to be inferred from the fact that it has two C modes like the 80D and the M5 and unlike the M3 and the current Rebels.


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## AlanF (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 Images Have Leaked*



-pekr- said:


> Don't like the leather design much, nor the sticking out neck strap holders, and wheels miss on the nice red accent as G7X has.
> 
> Well, not that much of a shock as M5 design was for me. It was so ugly, that over time, I kind of started to like it  Might consider the silver combination variant for the first time - looks kind of retro (rangefinder).
> 
> ...



The exposure compensation dial is very useful if you have a small dark object against a bright background, like a small bird, backlit, on a branch, and you often need to switch quickly so the dial is not a waste of space. So, as you have given us a choice between your being either a bad photographer or the dial being wasted space, you can draw your own conclusions.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 Images Have Leaked*



-pekr- said:


> Don't like the leather design much, nor the sticking out neck strap holders, and wheels miss on the nice red accent as G7X has.
> 
> Well, not that much of a shock as M5 design was for me. It was so ugly, that over time, I kind of started to like it  Might consider the silver combination variant for the first time - looks kind of retro (rangefinder).
> 
> ...


There is an other wheel under the exposure compensation dail


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## Hector1970 (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*

Not very pretty or anything. It looks functional.
Why do Canon and other companies go for that type of screen.
Is the flippy screen more vulnerable to damage or take up more space at the back.
I think the flippy screen is a much more usable design and you can protect it but turning it inwards.

With this I guess it's what's inside that matters. FPS and image quality.


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## Maximilian (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*

I think a lot of things at the M6 look like expected. 
I personally don't like that raised shutter button compared to the EOS SLRs, but that is what you get when you buy EOS M. (And I don't like it, even if the ring around it could be a dial or switch.)

Now let's see how good the AF and the EVF work... (that would be my main topic if I was in for an EOS M).


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Maximilian said:


> I think a lot of things at the M6 look like expected.
> I personally don't like that raised shutter button compared to the EOS SLRs, but that is what you get when you buy EOS M. (And I don't like it, even if the ring around it could be a dial or switch.)
> 
> Now let's see how good the AF and the EVF work... (that would be my main topic if I was in for an EOS M).



i'd assume the same as the M5.

I'm curious if the older EVF will work though.

probably wont' find that out until the press announcement or later.


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## -pekr- (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 Images Have Leaked*



AlanF said:


> -pekr- said:
> 
> 
> > Don't like the leather design much, nor the sticking out neck strap holders, and wheels miss on the nice red accent as G7X has.
> ...



I don't care about small birds, lol  As with DLSRs, where's such a dial? Well, 5D IV seems to have semi-dedicated button (shared with ISO?) for that, and that's just it - oh how could we survive without a dedicated exp.comp. wheel for all those years?

Well, maybe a second/hidden wheel under the exp.comp. one makes my day


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## IglooEater (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Canon Rumors said:


> <p> I really like the looks of the silver version of the camera.</p>



Have to agree with you on that one. I don't normally like silver cameras or mirrorless cameras for the looks. This one's not too bad though.


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## ExodistPhotography (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*

Looks very similar to the M3. But I think many including myself were expecting this update to be an improved upon m5 design? Which was well accepted with except for the flippy screen. Which also this one seems to be lacking..

Canon needs to figure out a proper naming scheme for their M cameras. This is going to confuse the mess out of folks..


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## LDS (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 Images Have Leaked*



-pekr- said:


> I don't care about small birds, lol  As with DLSRs, where's such a dial?



Exposure compensation is needed unless you shoot in manual mode only. Any subject which the meter can't properly meter will need it.

As for DSLRs:

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/exposure_settings/exposure_compensation.do


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## Dylan777 (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*

Silver??? 

2cents: Black version looks better since it has the modern body style.


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## okaro (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Dylan777 said:


> Silver???
> 
> 2cents: Black version looks better since it has the modern body style.



Styles change. Black may soon fall out of fashion. It became in fashion ten years ago. Up to about 2006-7 many cameras and home electronic devices were silver. I think the silver fashion started in about '96 so there seems to be a ten year cycle. I bought a Canon A700 compatible camera in '07 and it soon looked very obsolete.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



ExodistPhotography said:


> Looks very similar to the M3. But I think many including myself were expecting this update to be an improved upon m5 design? Which was well accepted with except for the flippy screen. Which also this one seems to be lacking..
> 
> Canon needs to figure out a proper naming scheme for their M cameras. This is going to confuse the mess out of folks..



I think you're alone with your assumptions there. it was always rumored as "under" the M5 and the EVF was rumored to go with it.

and a fully articulated screen? lol .. okay.

the naming? 5D and 6D don't confuse people .. are you confused by them?

it's an M5 sans built in EVF...


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 Images Have Leaked*



LDS said:


> -pekr- said:
> 
> 
> > I don't care about small birds, lol  As with DLSRs, where's such a dial?
> ...



manual + auto ISO it's useful as well. I actually found it a useful on the M3, even though I originally thought I wouldn't be using it.


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## LDS (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



okaro said:


> Styles change. Black may soon fall out of fashion. It became in fashion ten years ago. Up to about 2006-7 many cameras and home electronic devices were silver.



Canon went "black" already in the '80s starting with the A-1 and New F-1 (IIRC the original F-1 was too) which were "all black".

Since then, most high-end models have been black, while among more consumer oriented models often attempted different colors. But I don't believe black will become unfashionable, especially because it avoid reflections.

Silver looks good if it is (or look like) real metal, and its retro look may stay. The silver plastic used years ago looked cheap already back then on any device.


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## okaro (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Hector1970 said:


> Not very pretty or anything. It looks functional.
> Why do Canon and other companies go for that type of screen.
> Is the flippy screen more vulnerable to damage or take up more space at the back.
> I think the flippy screen is a much more usable design and you can protect it but turning it inwards.
> ...



The flippy screen is much harder to operate if one wants to just tilt it upwards. Also it affects the way you hold the camera.Turning it inwards made more sense when you ha a viewfinder. It is typical for technology that things get simpler.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



LDS said:


> okaro said:
> 
> 
> > Styles change. Black may soon fall out of fashion. It became in fashion ten years ago. Up to about 2006-7 many cameras and home electronic devices were silver.
> ...



Not sure it's real metal .. is the burnished part of the M5 metal or plastic?

it appears to be the same.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



okaro said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > Not very pretty or anything. It looks functional.
> ...



it does suck for portrait shooting though.


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## -pekr- (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Dylan777 said:


> Silver???
> 
> 2cents: Black version looks better since it has the modern body style.



M6, Silver .... maybe Canon got some inspiration from M6, Silver, Leica 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/images/m6/D3S_8427-1200.jpg


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## ShootingStars (Feb 8, 2017)

Can anyone answer my question if the screen can tilt upwards all the way and not down all the way like the M5?


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## JRPhotos (Feb 8, 2017)

EVF, yuck, personally don't like them. :|

Why do they make mirrorless cameras so small? It's difficult to hold them.


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## NorbR (Feb 8, 2017)

ShootingStars said:


> Can anyone answer my question if the screen can tilt upwards all the way and not down all the way like the M5?


Apparently yes.
(Image from Nokishita.)


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## hkenneth (Feb 8, 2017)

If they can have a mirrorless camera that looks like A1...


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## canonographer (Feb 8, 2017)

I really hope this gives us an indication of how the new full frame mirrorless will be styled, just bigger. I love the looks and handling of the M3. I haven't grown to love the M5's EVF (it kinda kills the style of the camera), but I think I could enjoy a full frame with a removable EVF and built in flash.

I know a lot of people will give me a hard time, worrying about how the camera looks, but it does make a difference. People are a lot less likely to buy a camera that they don't enjoy holding.


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## LDS (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 Images Have Leaked*



rrcphoto said:


> manual + auto ISO it's useful as well. I actually found it a useful on the M3, even though I originally thought I wouldn't be using it.



Never said it isn't - it gives surely more freedom in selecting shutter speed and aperture to achieve a desired result (as long as noise doesn't get too much in the way).

But every time one of the three shooting parameters is automatically controlled, some subject could need exposure correction. Manual and auto ISO will still turn a snowy landscape into a gray one, for example - and it will happen until meters fully understand colors and don't think the world is 18% gray.

For the target market of the M cameras, a dedicated dial make sense. My sister uses it extensively on her G11 - she rarely, if ever, switch to manual for tricky subjects.


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## okaro (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



LDS said:


> okaro said:
> 
> 
> > Styles change. Black may soon fall out of fashion. It became in fashion ten years ago. Up to about 2006-7 many cameras and home electronic devices were silver.
> ...



I went to the Canon Camera Museum to check. In 1986-95 SLR cameras were 22-1 black. The only silver one was the last one. In 1996-05 the film SLR were 8-5 silver (or similar light color). The more entry level ones were more in silver. Now there might have been two versions in some cameras and only one was shown but thus sill supports the assumption of channing styles. Compact cameras very vary much in silver. 

So if you buy black if may look funny in two years. Of course same can happen if you go silver.


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

As posted last night -- though some buttons have changed shape/location a bit, it's basically an M3 with respect to form-factor.

- A


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## Etienne (Feb 8, 2017)

NorbR said:


> ShootingStars said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone answer my question if the screen can tilt upwards all the way and not down all the way like the M5?
> ...



I hope you're right, but that photo is not reliable. Another site claims "We have wide LCD screen on the rear side tilting design (85° up, 180° down) to better enable working from high and low angles." 
http://thenewcamera.com/canon-eos-m6-images-leaked/


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## rang (Feb 8, 2017)

What a waste of development and marketing time and a major fail of program management...

The M5 was fine except for:
- NO 4K
- NO flip out articulating LCD
- NO headphone jack
- NOT enough native EF-M glass

If Canon had fixed those they would have been a contender in mirror less. 
I know their mantra is "evolution not revolution" in product development.
But they are so far behind.
We sell boatloads of Panasonic Lumix/Olympus and even Sony mirrorless compared to paltry Canon M series offering/sales.
And the first two models were pathetic compared to the competition.
I can buy anything in the store at a discount and I bought the M5 with 5 lenses and the adapter to stay loyal (over a dozen Canon production work DSLR's and two bridge cameras for happy snapping)
It is ok but just now worthy of usage but compared to the competition - not there, again.
In fact a month ago I also bought the Panasonic Lumix FZ2500 video/bridge camera and it's Leica lens and feature set kick the M5's ass in the pictures produce. Canon has *nothing* to compare in the bridge cam arena and certainly not in a mirrorless product.

THIS M6 model as described and shown in the leak is DEVOLUTION NOT EVEN EVOLUTION and sure as hell is NOT revolution.


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## LDS (Feb 8, 2017)

rang said:


> I bought the M5 with 5 lenses and the adapter to stay loyal



Why stay loyal? Canon is not your wife, your family, or friends . You don't owe anything to it. As long people buy, and sales are good, why should Canon be worried? I would never buy anything I don't like just to "stay loyal".


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## scrup (Feb 8, 2017)

Flash is useless, wish they just get rid of it and give us a 2nd hotshoe


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

LDS said:


> rang said:
> 
> 
> > I bought the M5 with 5 lenses and the adapter to stay loyal
> ...



+1. Love Canon and am often accused of being an apologist for them, but I see mirrorless being a work in progress that I will not make major system investment in (with any manufacturer) for the next 5 years or so. 

But I would totally buy a small non-Canon setup for travel and avoid building up a collection of lenses/flashes/accessories for it. I'd consider buying a Fuji X rig with a single staple prime or possibly a fixed lens mirrorless rig (x100, RX1, Leica Q, etc.) as I would use it as a smaller travel setup. 

Will I ever bolt EF glass on to a future EOS M or Canon FF mirrorless setup? Sure, but my 5D3 would mop the floor with it handling/functionality/responsiveness/battery-wise, so why suffer a downgrade just to enjoy mirrorless? Just wait until mirrorless gets good enough to be nearly seamless for the way you shoot -- for each of us, that timeframe might range from _right now_ (mirrorless enthusiasts) to 10+ years (sports/wildlifers). I'm probably somewhere in the middle, hence my 5 year guess.

- A


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## Dylan777 (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



-pekr- said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Silver???
> ...



Love the looks of those range style cams, especially with silver top.

Since I can't afford M10, I have x100F(Silver) on pre-order


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## rpiotr01 (Feb 8, 2017)

What is the purpose of this camera? That is to say, who is it for? I don't really know.


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Dylan777 said:


> Love the looks of those range style cams, especially with silver top.
> 
> Since I can't afford *Leica *M10, I have x100F(Silver) on pre-order



*Fixed that* for you, lest we forget our chosen camera company sells a very affordable M10.

- A


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

rpiotr01 said:


> What is the purpose of this camera? That is to say, who is it for? I don't really know.



You need to be more specific. Did you mean...


Who wants a camera in this form factor / without an integral EVF?
Who wants a mirrorless camera in general?
Who wants something that _looks_ like that?

I can't tell if you are disappointed at what it is / what it looks like / what it does or doesn't have, etc. Walk us to the road of your discontent and answers may follow. 

- A


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## Dylan777 (Feb 8, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> LDS said:
> 
> 
> > rang said:
> ...



For last couple years, I have hand-on many mirrorless systems(except Leica). Fuji seems to hit the sweet spot best. From off to ready to shoot is near DSLR. All the control functions are up front. Fuji primes are just amazing. Skin tone from JPEG SOOC is one of the best.


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## Dylan777 (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



ahsanford said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Love the looks of those range style cams, especially with silver top.
> ...



;D....Canon m10 is nowhere near range style


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 8, 2017)

rang said:


> What a waste of development and marketing time and a major fail of program management...
> 
> The M5 was fine except for:
> - NO 4K
> ...



Let's see...they're #3 for global MILC market share, and in Japan last year they were #2, beating out everyone but Olympus. And that's with a relatively limited investment in MILC lines and lenses. Yeah, they're they're just beating others up with one hand tied behind their back...not a contender at all. :




rang said:


> But they are so far behind.
> We sell boatloads of Panasonic Lumix/Olympus and even Sony mirrorless compared to paltry Canon M series offering/sales.
> And the first two models were pathetic compared to the competition.



With respect, no one cares what cameras you sell in your little shop in one city in one little corner of the world. Well, no one but you and whoever you work for. 

Incidentally, the first EOS M was the second-best selling MILC in the largest geographical market for the segment...so your opnion of it as 'pathetic' is certainly anything but universal.


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## bf (Feb 8, 2017)

It seems finally Canon is thinking retro with this silver accent and round external EVF. I do like the silver accent.


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## rpiotr01 (Feb 8, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rpiotr01 said:
> 
> 
> > What is the purpose of this camera? That is to say, who is it for? I don't really know.
> ...



Fair enough  

Firstly there is no discontent, and I'm not disappointed. My questions are not about specific features, but more, I guess, about what Canon already offers in this segment. There is the M3, the M5 and a bunch of different Rebel DLSRs, plus 70D and 80D right? I know there is a lot of variation in those models, but what sets this M6 apart meaningfully from the others? And even if there is a niche, it seems like it's a pretty specific niche, no?

I have an original EOS M and a 5DIII that I use happily (with eyes on 6DII) so admittedly I am well out of the technology loop here - please be gentle!


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

rpiotr01 said:


> What is the purpose of this camera? That is to say, who is it for? I don't really know.



what's so difficult? some people don't like a built in viewfinder.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> rang said:
> 
> 
> > What a waste of development and marketing time and a major fail of program management...
> ...



actually they are #2 globally.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

rpiotr01 said:


> There is the M3



this is looking like the M3 upgrade.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 8, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > rang said:
> ...



So...even more not a contender.


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## ShootingStars (Feb 8, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> LDS said:
> 
> 
> > rang said:
> ...



So you're going to bring a massive 5D3 body to all your casual out going stuff? Sure buddy. I'd rather carry a small body and a nice EF lenses that kind of stuff. Canon ain't stupid to cannibalize their L lens lineup with f/1.4 EFM lens. Do you know anything about business.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



clearly not 

canon's plodding course should worry the mirrorless companies.

canon's main EF lineup goes against the more expensive options from mirrorless, and then they are undercutting everyone by offering a very inexpensive EF-M system.

even though some are whining about options or 4K .. canon covers such a wide ecosystem under EOS.. if this camera has DPAF sensor as well, that means from the M6 through CINI-EOS canon has bodies in every area possible

M10,M6, M5
SL1 (maybe still), T6, T6I, T6S, 80D, 7D mark II, 6D, 5D Mark IV, 5Ds, 1D Mark II
C100, C300, C500, C700

that's alot of possibilities for EF glass if you ask me.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 8, 2017)

ShootingStars said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > +1. Love Canon and am often accused of being an apologist for them, but I see mirrorless being a work in progress that I will not make major system investment in (with any manufacturer) for the next 5 years or so.
> ...



So where did he say that? Do you know anything about reading comprehension...or even basic punctuation?


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## jayphotoworks (Feb 8, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > LDS said:
> ...



I was a loyal Canon user for many many years starting from the 20D. I briefly switched to Nikon during the D3 years and didn't like the ergonomics and the reverse lens mount, so I was back to shooting Canon a year or so later. 

When I first ventured into mirror-less at some point a few years ago I was looking for substantial weight savings to reduce my corporate event coverage work kit sometimes involving air-flight travel, so MFT was the best compromise at the time and let me shave off more than 12-15lbs off my working kit sometimes for more than 8-12 hours a day. While it's performance envelope is obviously narrower than a pro-level Canon kit, I still kept all of my EF glass and bodies at the time. Soon enough, coincidentally I started to cover sports work less and less, so I wasn't overly concerned with tracking AF and sold off my EF bodies and accessories and just kept the glass and was shooting mirror-less exclusively.

But the real change was my mindset. It wasn't until I ventured into mirror-less that it opened up a different perception on what I wanted out of my gear. There were manufacturers wanting to make a statement through innovation and others who were not overly concerned in protecting their alternative product lines that have made the acquisition process easier, lighter or smaller for me over the years.

I don't purchase based on loyalty, market-share or manufacturer sales performance. If I had stayed loyal to one manufacturer, I might have not been able to enjoy or broaden my service into film and video. A simplest example of this was when I was still shooting on DSLRs years ago, I didn't know it was possible to capture low or high angle shots that easily without having to spray and pray or go prone when all I knew was fixed non articulating screens. 

Think about what you really want out of your system and do your due diligence between feature sets and obsolescence and make a decision.


----------



## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

ShootingStars said:


> So you're going to bring a massive 5D3 body to all your casual out going stuff? Sure buddy. I'd rather carry a small body and a nice EF lenses that kind of stuff. Canon ain't stupid to cannibalize their L lens lineup with f/1.4 EFM lens. Do you know anything about business.



I did not ask for f/1.4L EF-M lenses. I have no idea where you got that. 

I'm just saying my 5D3 mops the floor handling/controls/ergonomics/shooting experience-wise with EOS M (of any flavor) and I'll continue to use the larger rig for that reason.

So, yes: I'm glad to put a 28 IS or 50 f/1.4 on my 5D3 and take it out for 'casual going out stuff'. I do all the time. It's compact, handles brilliantly and isn't that much bigger than the tiny mirrorless option. It's not a social stigma or problem at all these days, especially considering we have dipsh--s ruining concerts and public events with iPad photography, selfie-sticks, etc. 

- A


----------



## AvTvM (Feb 8, 2017)

here is hoping it is M5 innards in M3 body. especially same DPAF sensor as in M5. i prefer smaller form factor for mountaineering and city trips and street. EVF available when needed.

pricing of body only and kit with EVF will be interesting. M3 + EVF was not available as (reasonably priced) kit in Europe, only in Japan.


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## GHPhotography (Feb 8, 2017)

ShootingStars said:


> So you're going to bring a massive 5D3 body to all your casual out going stuff? Sure buddy. I'd rather carry a small body and a nice EF lenses that kind of stuff. Canon ain't stupid to cannibalize their L lens lineup with f/1.4 EFM lens. Do you know anything about business.



I frequently carry my 1DxII and 35 f/1.4 II to anything I know I am going to take pictures at, including social functions. Would I like a smaller rig? Sure, but nothing out there (until i get a 5D4) offers what it does for less size.


----------



## josephandrews222 (Feb 8, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Dylan777 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...




I am wondering if the Canon M10 is to be discontinued...


----------



## Ryananthony (Feb 8, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ShootingStars said:
> 
> 
> > So you're going to bring a massive 5D3 body to all your casual out going stuff? Sure buddy. I'd rather carry a small body and a nice EF lenses that kind of stuff. Canon ain't stupid to cannibalize their L lens lineup with f/1.4 EFM lens. Do you know anything about business.
> ...



You and me both. If my 1DX isn't coming with me, for sure my 5D3 is. It comes everywhere.


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## ShootingStars (Feb 8, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Pretty much this. It's all about the mindset, not the specs/hardware. Everyone just has GAS here.


----------



## ExodistPhotography (Feb 8, 2017)

Etienne said:


> ...........
> I hope you're right, but that photo is not reliable. Another site claims "We have wide LCD screen on the rear side tilting design (85° up, 180° down) to better enable working from high and low angles."
> http://thenewcamera.com/canon-eos-m6-images-leaked/



It can tilt down, up and up and over like shown. It has multiple hinges.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Feb 8, 2017)

Ryananthony said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ShootingStars said:
> ...



I usually only take my Iphone to social events. I personally can't fathom taking and watching over so much gear on casual outings and trips. I can even LR/PS the photos and share them instantly. I would definitely say that I can capture a shot faster than someone can take that camera out of their bag, remove the lens cap, flip the switch, bring it to their eye and press the shutter. It won't have an 85L on 35mm aesthetic, but those hundreds of shots need data management and processing and 99.9% won't ever see a print.


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## 9VIII (Feb 8, 2017)

All I can think is when I look at this is "Rangefinder".

It's almost tragic that Sony of all companies is the only one willing to push that format, but everyone else, even Fuji, is hesitant to release a new Rangefinder body (besides their pet project the X-Pro).


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

ShootingStars said:


> Pretty much this. It's all about the mindset, not the specs/hardware. Everyone just has GAS here.



Everyone does not have GAS here. That's ridiculous.

I own a 5D3 and have skipped the 5DS rigs and the 5D4 because they aren't that much better than what I currently shoot with. Amassing new gear is idiotic unless you are constantly pushing the limits of what that gear can do _and_ a new product dramatically would improve those limits. 

Many folks come here for:


To learn about photography from someone more experienced
To understand less common gear and how it works (landscape filters, macro lighting/rails, etc.
To get buying advice
To share news, reviews, etc.
To post their work
Talk about the future of photography

So speak for yourself on GAS. It exists, sure, but to indict everyone here as having it is a comically broad brush to use. You are not giving this forum remotely enough credit.

- A


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## Etienne (Feb 8, 2017)

I think a big part of the reason that some people bash Canon is that we expect Canon to dazzle with every new product, and often they simply offer modest improvements.

The latest round hits below my hopes in key areas: 

I wanted the 5DIV to have a practical 4K option, top notch 1080p, a swivel screen, and at least some video tools like focus peaking for manual lenses. I would have grabbed one for sure, but as it is I'm staying with my 5D3 (at least it has magic lantern). In body IS would have been great too. Makes me lean towards the A7s ii

I wanted the M5 to have a swivel screen and some sort of 4K option. At least it has focus peaking (but withholding that on the 5D4, what's up with that nonsense?). A proper IBIS would have been appreciated as well. This makes me lean towards the A6500, which has it's own problems as well.

No manufacturer offers an obvious all-around winner, and I thought one of them would by now. I was confident that it was going to be the 5D4, but it didn't get there. The best summary of the 5D4 is that it is an awesome camera for photographers, who may want to capture the odd video here and there. I think that's a missed opportunity for Canon. It should have been the killer all-in-one camera for those who want to capture both in one compact device.


----------



## Ryananthony (Feb 8, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> Ryananthony said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...






I don't take a bunch of gear, but I do a single body and lens. With that said, my lens caps are never on. My camera is always turned on and asleep, beside me, or on me, not in a camera bag. I understand it isn't for everyone, but ive taken about 50 photos on my phone in the last 2 years of ownership, most of which are trivial shots that hold no value. 

I would rather bring my camera and not use it, then not bring it and wish I had. I am not professional, as you may be. If my career was using my camera 8 hours a day, I'm sure I would feel differently.


----------



## Etienne (Feb 8, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ShootingStars said:
> 
> 
> > So you're going to bring a massive 5D3 body to all your casual out going stuff? Sure buddy. I'd rather carry a small body and a nice EF lenses that kind of stuff. Canon ain't stupid to cannibalize their L lens lineup with f/1.4 EFM lens. Do you know anything about business.
> ...



I agree...

I go out regularly with the 5D3 with the 28 f/2.8 IS and 50 f/1.4, often with just one of those lenses. In fact the 5D3 with 28 f/2.8 IS is amazing.

But I do prefer the size of my M3 with 22mm f/2 and 11-22mm IS lenses. The size makes a big difference in crowded coffee shops, cars, planes ... anywhere tight.


----------



## Nininini (Feb 8, 2017)

I modeled it to size specs, sorta.

Current STM 18-55mm VS new one.

It's a good reduction in size.

Now do the reduction for the 55-250mm pls!


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 8, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ShootingStars said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty much this. It's all about the mindset, not the specs/hardware. Everyone just has GAS here.
> ...



Maybe s/he's just referring to their own warm, smelly breath.


----------



## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

Nininini said:


> I modeled it to size specs, sorta.
> 
> Current STM 18-55mm VS new one.
> 
> ...



Dude, that was so yesterday. Do keep up. 

- A


----------



## Bob Howland (Feb 8, 2017)

9VIII said:


> All I can think is when I look at this is "Rangefinder".
> 
> It's almost tragic that Sony of all companies is the only one willing to push that format, but everyone else, even Fuji, is hesitant to release a new Rangefinder body (besides their pet project the X-Pro).



"Tragic" may be overstating it a bit, but it wouldn't seem all that hard to rearrange the circuitry inside the M5 to make a rangefinder style M body. The constraint of having to keep the viewfinder mirrors and viewfinder itself centered over the lens, like an SLR, is gone in a mirrorless camera. Surely Canon can introduce one rangefinder style body for the M-series.


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

9VIII said:


> All I can think is when I look at this is "Rangefinder".
> 
> It's almost tragic that Sony of all companies is the only one willing to push that format, but everyone else, even Fuji, is hesitant to release a new Rangefinder body (besides their pet project the X-Pro).



_Sony sells a rangefinder?_ Since when? Bolting an OVF on top of an RX1 hardly qualifies. 

It's Fuji X-Pro 1/2, Leica or bust for digital rangefinders with OVFs, is it not? (Am I forgetting anyone?)

- A


----------



## Aaron D (Feb 8, 2017)

I like it! I like the ring around the shutter release, I like the looks of the "range-finder style" body, I like the compact size and the available EVF. And the two "C"s, and the compensation dial. What I would prefer though is a built-in EVF so it doesn't stick out - and full-frame. All else I do is full-frame, so it would bug me to have to live with even a little bit less image quality than that (5Diii + 5Div). And no serious fast fixed frame lenses! I will probably wait for a new 6Dii (sounds like it will be smaller than the current one) and get a small 35 f2 IS to go with. 

If canon is reading this: how about a full-frame with range-finder style body AND built-in EVF and a flippy screen. And some tiny, reasonably fast (so as not to ruin the tiny-ness) prime lenses? Name it whatever you like!

A


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

9VIII said:


> All I can think is when I look at this is "Rangefinder".
> 
> It's almost tragic that Sony of all companies is the only one willing to push that format, but everyone else, even Fuji, is hesitant to release a new Rangefinder body (besides their pet project the X-Pro).



why? canon used silver and black in none rangefinder cameras in the past. it doesn't mean rangefinder.

and 2/3's of the population have their dominant eye being their right one, the other 1/3 do not.

also that then makes it harder for the flash to see over the lens, or even have a flash at all.

sony push rangefinder .. HUH?

what do you think the new fuji X100F is?


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

I could be mistaken, but it appears that some folks (above and beyond this thread) are conflating an actual rangefinder camera with 'the look/style of the camera being reminiscent of a rangefinder'. 

I'd love a classic definition from someone more knowledgeable, as I often hear broad and loose interpretation of rangefinder ("this digital rangefinder with its retro styling") or an unbelievably specific expectation of what one is ("The VF must be on the left side and be a manual focus system"), but I always thought a rangefinder was defined as *having an integral optical viewfinder that is off-axis of the optical path from the lens to the film or sensor*. So there's no need for a mirror, but your OVF may not exactly reflect what you are about to capture, your lens may obstruct your view, etc. 

(For instance, an EVF-only camera is not a rangefinder, correct?)

So in the digital world:

Fuji X100 = rangefinder with benefits (EVF/OVF hybrid)
Fuji X-Pro 1 = rangefinder with benefits (EVF/OVF hybrid)
Leica M = rangefinder

The rest of the Fuji X line = not a rangefinder, just a contemporary mirrorless rig
Leica Q, Leica SL = not a rangefinder, just a contemporary mirrorless rig
Sony A7 = not a rangefinder, just a contemporary mirrorless rig

...and so on.

And we can debate whether slapping a _modular_ OVF on a non-OVF rig (RX1 series has this as does a number of other Leica and Olympus lines) is considered a rangefinder. 

But straighten me out, please. What do you consider a rangefinder camera? Just an off-axis OVF or must it be the whole deal, sliding range to focus and all?

- A


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## AvTvM (Feb 8, 2017)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangefinder_camera

only Leica M cameras (digital models) are digital rangefinder cameras. 
fuji x100, x-pro 1+2 are "hybrid/electronic" rangefinders cameras: split image overlay is electronic (evf), not optical.

everything else is simply retro-styled stuff, somehow remoniscent of rangefinder cameras in their outer appearance.

digital cameras with an optical "tunnel" viewfinder (eg earlier canon powershot g models) are definitely no rangefinder cameras.

in gernan we differentiate "mess-sucher kameras" (currently only made by Leica) vs. "Sucherkameras" (optical tunnel viewfinder) vs "reflex kameras" (mirror + pentaprism/pentamirror + OVF = DSLRs).


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## goldenhusky (Feb 8, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> As posted last night -- though some buttons have changed shape/location a bit, it's basically an M3 with respect to form-factor.
> 
> - A



Thank you. Good to know this is the same size and form factor as M3


----------



## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

and the specs are out:

Number of effective pixels: Approximately 24.2 million pixels
Video engine: DIGIC 7
AF point: 49 points
Sequential shooting: 7 frames / sec (AF fixed: 9 frames / sec)
ISO sensitivity: 100 to 25600
Shutter speed: 1 / 4000-30, synchronized with strobe = 1/200 second
Video: Full HD, HD, VGA
Liquid Crystal: 3.0 type tilt type touch panel
Size: 112.0 × 68.0 × 44.5 mm
Recording medium: SD / SDHC / SDXC card
Built-in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth
Color: Black / Silver


those specs are the same as the EOS-M5.


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## JBSF (Feb 8, 2017)

rang said:


> What a waste of development and marketing time and a major fail of program management...
> 
> The M5 was fine except for:
> - NO 4K
> ...




Surely you don't mean that the image quality from the FZ2500 surpasses that of the M5?


----------



## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> and the specs are out:
> 
> Number of effective pixels: Approximately 24.2 million pixels
> Video engine: DIGIC 7
> ...



also...

a new remote.. is this a bluetooth remote maybe?


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 8, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> and the specs are out:
> 
> Number of effective pixels: Approximately 24.2 million pixels
> Video engine: DIGIC 7
> ...



So I may be replacing my M2... Works well, it's about time for my oldest daughter to switch from a P&S to an ILC.


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## goldenhusky (Feb 8, 2017)

I bought the M3 during the holiday Canon refurb sale and hated it due to shutter lag. Unless I received a bad copy, the shutter lag was worse than any SLR and mirror-less camera I have ever used. So I returned it. I think the price for M6 is still unknown. I am guessing Canon will price this around the $600 - $700 mark.Regardless I don't think I will buy a Canon's mirror-less until they add a decent (compression with a better codec) 4k video recording capability. I am very happy with 5Dm4 and 80D.


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## goldenhusky (Feb 8, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > and the specs are out:
> ...



Thanks for the specs and info on the remote


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## goldenhusky (Feb 8, 2017)

after taking a closer looks the remote may be for the power zoom adapter PZ-E1 since it has W and T buttons?


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## ahsanford (Feb 9, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> I bought the M3 during the holiday Canon refurb sale and hated it due to shutter lag. Unless I received a bad copy, the shutter lag was worse than any SLR and mirror-less camera I have ever used. So I returned it. I think the price for M6 is still unknown. I am guessing Canon will price this around the $600 - $700 mark.Regardless I don't think I will buy a Canon's mirror-less until they add a decent (compression with a better codec) 4k video recording capability. I am very happy with 5Dm4 and 80D.



Hmmm...

M5 body only = $979

Virtually identical specs to the M5 minus a viewfinder = body only $800, EVF $200?

You don't think they'd mark it up by selling it piecemeal like that, would they? Perhaps they kit the EVF in some cases?

- A


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## ahsanford (Feb 9, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> after taking a closer looks the remote may be for the power zoom adapter PZ-E1 since it has W and T buttons?



Good eye. Can focus by wire lenses be _zoomed by wire_ -- which could be potentially huge for product reviewers, unboxing videos, youtube stuff, etc. -- or is the power zoom doodad required to do that?

- A


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## rrcphoto (Feb 9, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > I bought the M3 during the holiday Canon refurb sale and hated it due to shutter lag. Unless I received a bad copy, the shutter lag was worse than any SLR and mirror-less camera I have ever used. So I returned it. I think the price for M6 is still unknown. I am guessing Canon will price this around the $600 - $700 mark.Regardless I don't think I will buy a Canon's mirror-less until they add a decent (compression with a better codec) 4k video recording capability. I am very happy with 5Dm4 and 80D.
> ...



maybe a little less. the M3 released at 679 body only in the USA.


perhaps it depends more on the sensor. looking at those specs it could go either way.. the M3 sensor, or the M5 sensor.


----------



## Rocky (Feb 9, 2017)

Even with focus peaking I am doing badly with the EF-M lenses when it come to Manual focusing. However I can do very well with any manual focus lens. Is it due to the "focus by wire"of the EF_M lens? Any comment will be appreciated.


----------



## Fleetie (Feb 9, 2017)

If the specs of the M6 are essentially the same as those of the M5, then I guess that's good, but I'm a little confused now:

Why would Canon, within 4 or 5 months, release 2 cameras essentially the same, but with slightly different form factors? The M5 and M6 are not HUGELY different in size. And as someone else said, by the time you've paid for the (sexy) EVF-DC2, they're probably not far apart in price either.

Are they REALLY just releasing the same camera in 2 forms, just to cater for different people's style/ergonomic tastes?

Also, I'm a little (tiny bit) annoyed, because I was all set to buy the M5, but now I'm less sure, and may wait for the release and reviews of the M6.

Still, better that the M6 comes out BEFORE I buy, than immediately AFTER, I suppose!


----------



## Ryananthony (Feb 9, 2017)

Fleetie said:


> If the specs of the M6 are essentially the same as those of the M5, then I guess that's good, but I'm a little confused now:
> 
> Why would Canon, within 4 or 5 months, release 2 cameras essentially the same, but with slightly different form factors? The M5 and M6 are not HUGELY different in size. And as someone else said, by the time you've paid for the (sexy) EVF-DC2, they're probably not far apart in price either.
> 
> ...



Fuji has like 3 cameras that are all the same ( or at least very similar) minus the form factor. Xpro1, xe1, xt1, xt10. 

A couple have been updated now, so they are no longer similar, but I hope my point gets across. I also remember seeing people complain about the m5 SLR-like EVF bump on top, saying how it is not as pocketable as the m3. It makes sense to me keep a small package M That is upgraded like the M5.


----------



## Act444 (Feb 9, 2017)

The M5 is just a BIT too bulky for my liking. However, this M6 - depending on its feature set - may be just right. 

I like my M10 overall, but sometimes I want just a bit more. If the M6 ends up simply being an M5 with a detachable EVF (and the price is not outrageous), I may wind up upgrading. With the M5, I'd have to keep the M10 around for size purposes, but with the M6, having the best of both worlds would make it quite a flexible tool.


----------



## rrcphoto (Feb 9, 2017)

Fleetie said:


> Are they REALLY just releasing the same camera in 2 forms, just to cater for different people's style/ergonomic tastes?



the G7X and G5X are the same sans EVF. so why not?

also there's a fairly big difference in size.


----------



## Zv (Feb 9, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > and the specs are out:
> ...



I was thinking the same, also looking to maybe replace my M2 which is still one of my all time fave cameras to use. Going from M2 to this would be a serious upgrade, endless fun to be had there! 

Not sure I follow all the hate around this M6, maybe some folk are looking at this as the update to the M5 due to the numbering? I see it as Canon tempting us M1, M2 and M3 folk to come out of hiding and spend a little money this year. 

This and that 18-150 lens and I'll be all set for another 2 or 3 years.


----------



## rsdofny (Feb 9, 2017)

Act444 said:


> The M5 is just a BIT too bulky for my liking. However, this M6 - depending on its feature set - may be just right.
> 
> I like my M10 overall, but sometimes I want just a bit more. If the M6 ends up simply being an M5 with a detachable EVF (and the price is not outrageous), I may wind up upgrading. With the M5, I'd have to keep the M10 around for size purposes, but with the M6, having the best of both worlds would make it quite a flexible tool.



I agree...it may be even better to have the lens move over to the left a little to free up more room for the grip. M5 is just too bulky.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 9, 2017)

Zv said:


> This and that 18-150 lens and I'll be all set for another 2 or 3 years.



agreed on the 18-150mm that and the 11-22 makes a pretty awesome small travel kit.


----------



## pokerz (Feb 9, 2017)

Gob Job Canon, nice revolutionary upgrade
you deserve it


----------



## Zv (Feb 9, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > This and that 18-150 lens and I'll be all set for another 2 or 3 years.
> ...



Yup, exactly what I was thinking. Take those two and the M6, leave the 6D + 25-105L + 16-35 at home. It means I can pack a smaller tripod too. Maybe stick the 50STM + EF adapter in there for good measure. IQ should be more than adequate for those holiday snaps. 

I haven't tried any of the new gen of crop cameras but I'll bet I'll be fairly impressed with the IQ. The M2 is already better than the 550D I started out with only it fits in my pocket. That's some insane performance to size ratio IMO. I can do a lot with just a kit lens. Most of my shots are at f/8 or smaller.


----------



## rang (Feb 9, 2017)

LDS said:


> rang said:
> 
> 
> > I bought the M5 with 5 lenses and the adapter to stay loyal
> ...



It's a matter of glass "hand cuffs" from 800 prime to STM's for fun stuff. 
If the company is going to go mirrorless - why putz around - for years.???
That's just stupid program management.

Don't get me wrong I like the M5 it works but it is just way to little way to late to be in the game seriously.
The missing elements I mentioned are default features that I would expect from a serious contender. At this point in time it's a happy snapper nothing more.
And like I said unless a lot of the most recent postings of just rumors of the internal specs end up being in a released product with an integral flash/EVF...it's a disappointment.


----------



## sanj (Feb 9, 2017)

I like the silver version.


----------



## -pekr- (Feb 9, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> and the specs are out:
> 
> Number of effective pixels: Approximately 24.2 million pixels
> Video engine: DIGIC 7
> ...



No mention of DPAF. Or do you think we take take it for granted? (49 AF points seems to be identical parameter to M5?).

Well, and not even basic 4K argument  They could at least provide FullHD in 120 fps for better slow-mo ... 

Anyway, not much of a videographere here, so if DPAF is confirmed, that's our first mirrorless to our DSRL family. The thing I am missing though, is having faster lens. My first one is going to be 22mm f2 pancake one.

Just a question I can't easily answer to myself - if you would shoot identical scene with the G7X II and its 1.8-2.8 lens, and bigger sensor M6 but its typical 3.5 and above - which one would have better noise performance?


----------



## pokerz (Feb 9, 2017)

-pekr- said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > and the specs are out:
> ...


Forever 1080 60p in order to protect this Cinematic Line Market, Canon is Smart.


----------



## Zv (Feb 9, 2017)

-pekr- said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > and the specs are out:
> ...



Lens has nothing to do with noise performance. Is your question - G7XII at low ISO vs EOS M5 or 6 at a higher ISO (due to the slower lens)? 

So the difference of about 2/3 stop in light approx? Assuming f/2.8 lens vs a f/3.5 lens you would be going from say ISO 100 to 160 on the EOS M to compensate for the loss of light. A quite insignificant amount of noise difference there. 

What is more significant is the difference in sensor size which will be noticeable at all ISO. The larger sensor of the EOS M will win. No competition (1inch vs APS-C) 

I guess a valid question would be at what point does the IQ become comparable? For example does ISO 3200 on the M look like ISO 800 on the G7XII? I'm sure someone more scientific can answer that.


----------



## -pekr- (Feb 9, 2017)

Zv said:


> -pekr- said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Yes, you got it right. Sorry for not being clear enough. Simply put - with faster lens, you can stay at lower ISO. Some of EF-M lens are 4.5-6.3, that's quite significant loss of light, no? It's cca two full stops, which might mean ISO 3200 vs ISO 800 on G7X II and its faster lens?


----------



## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

SIZE matters! i balkedxat M5 size and cludgy hump "pseudo SLR" form factor. 

if M6 really has M5 innards, especially DPAF sensor - in smaller M3 form factor ... and if there is no nerfing/crippling, it may well replace my 1st gen EOS M. 

i never record video, so don't care at all for the constant 4k whining, happy i will not have to pay for it. 

if there is a decent kit offer: M6 + EVF + 18-150 ... also in Europe, not only in Japan, it may be my first Canon purchase after 2 years of boycotting them.  

PS: of course the all-black version for me and not that silver-plastic retro design for me.


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## noncho (Feb 9, 2017)

It reminds me of Samsung NX500... with less options and 2 years later.


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

noncho said:


> It reminds me of Samsung NX500... with less options and 2 years later.



just one little difference: samsung NX has gone out of existence 2 years ago. Meanwhile Canon EOS M line is now shifting from 1st gear to second and the gearbox will eventually go to 7. the best is yet to come. 

i'd be quite angry had i purchased a Samsung NX500 or NX1 ... feeling must be rather "high and dry" ... ;-)


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

bzw: i am a bit disappointed with CR guy re. M6 news ... definitely late to the party! no images, no specs, no confirmation whether it is DPAF sensor, no pricing ... no good sources it seems!


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## -pekr- (Feb 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> SIZE matters! i balkedxat M5 size and cludgy hump "pseudo SLR" form factor.
> 
> if M6 really has M5 innards, especially DPAF sensor - in smaller M3 form factor ... and if there is no nerfing/crippling, it may well replace my 1st gen EOS M.
> 
> ...



How do you know it's plastic? I hope for a brushed alluminium, but most probably I am too naive  Hope it at least does not feel cheap!


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## Zv (Feb 9, 2017)

-pekr- said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > -pekr- said:
> ...



Yeah I guess though bear in mind the G7XII has a fixed lens, and while it may be f/2.8 at the long end it's still limited at 100mm (35mm equivalent). The EOS M with the 55-200 lens would be around f/4.5 at that focal length. So like a 1.3 stop difference. 2 stops if using the slower 18-150 (I assume it's f/5.6 at 65mm) so yeah you're right about that. 

However, the EOS being an interchangeable lens body gives you the chance to potentially use faster lenses (adapted or native yet to come). There's also manual lens options from Samyang / Rokinon. This is where the M comes into it's own. The ability to use specialized lenses. Good for landscape stuff. If you're just out to get pics of the cat maybe the G7 is a better option!

Also, I reckon you could do a lot more with the RAW files from the M vs the G7XII. The added flexibility would be useful if you do a lot of editing. 

I definitely agree that a fast tele prime option is needed for the M line though.


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## LDS (Feb 9, 2017)

rang said:


> It's a matter of glass "hand cuffs" from 800 prime to STM's for fun stuff.



That's another reason. "I buy Canon because I own several lenses I can use" is different than "I buy Canon because there's written Canon and I'm loyal".

I'm interested in the M5. I don't work in a camera shop , don't like to trade, so I have to be careful in what I spend my money. I would like a smaller camera, and I would like something with a mostly common UI with my actual DSLR, and an EVF. Being able to use remotes, flashes and lenses I already own is another reason. I liked the Fujis, but didn't want to invest in a wholly different, still expensive, system. I'm not interested in video - what stopped me to buy it is the M lenses lineup. I've no reason to buy something which doesn't fulfill my needs, so I simply wait.



rang said:


> If the company is going to go mirrorless - why putz around - for years.???
> That's just stupid program management.



When you're the incontestable leader of the DSLR market, you find yourself in a difficult position. They invested in R&D and production lines for the actual products - and probably expect a given ROI. Introduce new products that cannibalize sales of some products of yours, and not only competitors, and it can impact your revenues. Nor you can easily dump models that sell well, and replace them with other that may sell less - for example I'm in that market segment who won't buy a camera without an OVF/EVF.

There could be also other needs - i.e. reusing existing components and technologies to reduce costs (a reduction that might be not passed to the customer, of course...)

IMHO they are trying to position the M line so it doesn't damage other lines. When you're less successful, it's easier to be more aggressive, you have less to lose.


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## okaro (Feb 9, 2017)

The difference in sensor size between one inch and APS-C is equivalent to 1.5 stops in performance. As a factor this is 1.69. So f/1.8 is roughly comparable to f/3.0 on the larger sensor. However if low light performance is really an issue and one wants slightly longer focal lengths then one should get for example the 50 mm f/1.8. It has a 28 mm aperture compared to max 13 mm on G7X mark II. Larger hole, more light, better image. Even if you crop you'll get 15 megapixels, more than enough with high ISO.


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## Zv (Feb 9, 2017)

okaro said:


> The difference in sensor size between one inch and APS-C is equivalent to 1.5 stops in performance. As a factor this is 1.69. So f/1.8 is roughly comparable to f/3.0 on the larger sensor. However if low light performance is really an issue and one wants slightly longer focal lengths then one should get for example the 50 mm f/1.8. It has a 28 mm aperture compared to max 13 mm on G7X mark II. Larger hole, more light, better image. Even if you crop you'll get 15 megapixels, more than enough with high ISO.



Thanks!

So I guess the EF-M 15-45 f/3.5 - 6.3 is kinda close to the one on the G7XII, only not as long. Would've been nice to see a 15-65 or 15-85 f/4 constant for the EF-M. I doubt we'd ever see an f/2.8 zoom for it and even if we did what would be the price of something like that I wonder?


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## okaro (Feb 9, 2017)

Fleetie said:


> If the specs of the M6 are essentially the same as those of the M5, then I guess that's good, but I'm a little confused now:
> 
> Why would Canon, within 4 or 5 months, release 2 cameras essentially the same, but with slightly different form factors? The M5 and M6 are not HUGELY different in size. And as someone else said, by the time you've paid for the (sexy) EVF-DC2, they're probably not far apart in price either.



If you plan to use a viewfinder you should get the M5. For many the size and the price are deal breakers. 



> Are they REALLY just releasing the same camera in 2 forms, just to cater for different people's style/ergonomic tastes?
> 
> Also, I'm a little (tiny bit) annoyed, because I was all set to buy the M5, but now I'm less sure, and may wait for the release and reviews of the M6.
> 
> Still, better that the M6 comes out BEFORE I buy, than immediately AFTER, I suppose!



If ergonomics and size were irrelevant there would be little need to release any mirrorless cameras. I think it is just good that the viewfinder is the only difference. It would be confusing if M6 was in some aspects better than M5. 

I just got an offer from Canon for EOS M3 and the 15-45 mm for 518 €. They need to sell the old storages. Just a little time ago I was considering buying it for 599 €. Now I'll wait.


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## koenkooi (Feb 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> if M6 really has M5 innards, especially DPAF sensor - in smaller M3 form factor ... and if there is no nerfing/crippling, it may well replace my 1st gen EOS M.



The biggest nerfing/crippling IMO is using a powershot firmware and I bet that won't get fixed, ever


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## noncho (Feb 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> noncho said:
> 
> 
> > It reminds me of Samsung NX500... with less options and 2 years later.
> ...



Nope.
I'm quite happy with it, because it's a capable camera and have many great native lenses. And I'm using it instead of waiting few more years for such lenses from Canon. And of course we won't see interesting native lenses like 85 1.4 for M.

I had M with 3 lenses. Maybe 5 years after the quit of NX line I'll come back for M6 mk II, as the design seems fine


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



Bernard said:


> I wonder if the old electronic viewfinder will work with the new camera. It seems wasteful to buy a new EVF when the old one works just fine.


I'm sure it will work. Seems like the only difference is design and that the new DC2 is fixed. The DC1 allows you to tilt it.


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



1kind said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if the old electronic viewfinder will work with the new camera. It seems wasteful to buy a new EVF when the old one works just fine.
> ...



not sure. need to see a clean image of the connector/pins on dv2 and m6 hotshoe first. i'd not be surorused if canon would have changed something to make dv1 incompatible ...


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2017)

*Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked*



AvTvM said:


> 1kind said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...


I don't think Canon would go that extreme and change pins and connectors. Plus, what if someone wants the M6 but wants a tilting EVF? They can buy the DC1. Just more options for photographers and more money for Canon.

Don't forget, the EVF-DC1 also works with the G3 X, G1 X Mark II. So having the DC2 work only for the M6 doesn't make sense.


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?


I won't think the resolution of the EVF has to do with how old the cameras are. Unless it has to do with power output but I'm sure that the EVF doesn't require that much power.

We'll find out soon.


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

1kind said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?
> ...



yes, roght now we can only speculate. if dc2 is higher rez, the plder cams may not be able to deliver the video feed for it (bandwidth, digic power, ...)?


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## rrcphoto (Feb 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?



i doubt it. I think the DC2 seems to be telescopic, which means it can slide out from the camera body when in use, or smaller when you want to tilt the screen up.

it also doesn't seem to be articulating.

I really doubt it's any more res than the already good 2.36m dot EVF the DC1 has.

also there's no way in hell it has a higher specced EVF than the M5.


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

i'd be interested in a "4k retina EVF" rather than 4k video capture. ;-)


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## rrcphoto (Feb 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> i'd be interested in a "4k retina EVF" rather than 4k video capture. ;-)



retina is over 300 ppi.. you already have that


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

i would prefer "4k retina" nevertheless.


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## Quirkz (Feb 9, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > i'd be interested in a "4k retina EVF" rather than 4k video capture. ;-)
> ...



Apples 'Retina' resolution is affected by viewing distance. It's basically the ppi required at X distance so that the individual pixels are not distinguishable from each other. 300ppi is considered about right for the distance an iPhone or iPad is held at - but you'd need much higher for an evf held a few centimeters from your own retina


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## Fleetie (Feb 9, 2017)

2.36 Mdot is only about equivalent to 1024x768 pixels, though the aspect ratio may well be different from that.

Really not great.

BUT I don't believe the EVF-DC2 will have a higher res than that, sadly.

Also, it's a shame it won't tilt up. I've found that feature of the -DC1 very useful.


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## AvTvM (Feb 9, 2017)

1024x768 exsctly. SVGA. released in 1987 ... still used by "innovative camera manufacturers" in 2017. ;-)

I stand corrected: it was XGA and came somewhat later. thanks, @LDS !


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## LDS (Feb 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> 1024x768 exsctly. SVGA. released in 1987 ... still used by "innovative camera manufacturers" in 2017. ;-)



SVGA is usually 800x600. 1024x768 is usually referred as XGA. Just in 1987 you got it on 15" CRT displays at 72Hz that weighted several kilograms, now you get it in 0.5" or less, a few grams, and higher refresh rates.

Many microdisplays available use that resolution - AFAIK the Sony A7 has the same resolution - but it looks VR headset are going to push higher resolutions - just remember more pixels more battery juice required.


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## Fleetie (Feb 10, 2017)

Ok, I just spent some time with my M3, using the EVF to view my photos.

To be fair to it, I couldn't really see individual pixels, so its poor 1024x768-equivalent resolution isn't that much of a problem, it seems.

But what did strike me was how little of my eye's field of view the image occupied.

A very welcome and useful improvement would be a souped-up optical system with a really nice eyepiece, so that the image filled much more of the eye's FOV.

My Dad makes telescopes. When I was very young, he made a terrestrial 'scope with a (bought-in) lovely eyepiece of a type known as an "Erfle". This eyepiece was a joy to look through. The FOV was luxuriously wide! It SEEMED to almost fill the eye's FOV.

I want that in an EVF!

Probably optically impossible, though.


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## AvTvM (Feb 10, 2017)

lets see whether Canon has improved something with the new EVF-DC2 ... higher eyepoint could be possible. we will know, once full specs are released or leaked.


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