# Future of the M line/mount



## andrei1989 (Sep 10, 2018)

I've seen a topic about the future of the EF/EF-S mounts now that the R mount has been launched
Honestly, i don't really care about that topic because it's clear the the EF mount is not going anywhere considering the number of bodies sold in the 30 years of existance

EF-M however...is quite new to the canon world and it hasn't been shown a lot of love neither from canon itself or any of the third party manufacturers (talking about the big ones, not small chinese companies)
one could argue that canon is committed to the EF-M mount by launching this new 32 1.4 but i'm not convinced: there is no higher end zoom to replace the kit lens (like the EF-S 17-50 2.8 or the 15-85), there is no prime longer than 32mm, longest native lens is 200mm and it's 6.3

sony on the other hand, have 3 constant aperture zooms for their aps-c cameras

don't compare canon m to fuji x because fuji's entire focus was on crop sensors until recently

you will say why i don't just adapt? i do! i have the 55-250 STM which fits perfectly my M5, no complaints here, and i have also the 15-85 but this just looks like that EOS R with the 28-70 mounted...scaled down to 70% (someone will correct me on the proportions, it's the internet)

ok...rant over...
what do you think is the future of the EF-M mount? will it slowly vanish and be replaced with a small crop R camera? will it continue as a low cost/low expectations platform and see 1 lens every 2 years (best case)? will canon show it more love?


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## Mikehit (Sep 10, 2018)

I would say it is a choice between APS-C and M series. The future is mirrorless, and M series are IMP the prime candidate for the APS-C level introduction to Canon cameras. However, the 80D and 7D are both excellent action cameras and those alone make me think that a much reduced APS-C line will prevail, at least until Canon's mirrorless AF is close to those models.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 10, 2018)

I think Canon will keep selling M series bodies and lenses as long as there is a market for them but it's hard to imagine that they'll get much attention from the product design groups. Canon has a pretty full plate. Still, I'm pretty confident that the EOS R bodies will be getting bigger not smaller so there ought to be room for a line of compact mirrorless bodies and lenses. No reason why Canon should surrender that market to someone else when by all accounts the M's are very popular.


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## fullstop (Sep 10, 2018)

ef-s and crop mirrorslappers are as good as dead.

EOS M5/M6 II and a new low end M body will take care of all those rebels and anything up to 80D.

EF-M lenses? perfect lineup. only a moderately fast tele prime is missing EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM. it will eventually come. and maybe a 16-50/2.8-4.0 zoom. canon will not break EF-M lens parameters: max 58mm filter thread, 61mm barrel diameter.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 11, 2018)

I would not worry about M lenses or EF lenses. Canon was making a point when they released a M lens and two high end EF lenses at the same time the R was announced. It was lost on some.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I would not worry about M lenses or EF lenses. Canon was making a point when they released a M lens and two high end EF lenses at the same time the R was announced. It was lost on some.


It was lost on _many. _


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## dak723 (Sep 11, 2018)

Canon considers the M to be their COMPACT camera line. I think this tells us that R cameras (even R APS-C if they go that route) will basically be DSLR size as the new R has shown to be. The M system is meant for a target market that wants small and light and SIMPLE and INEXPENSIVE. There will not be high end zooms or "big" zooms. Perhaps 2 or 3 more lenses over the next few years - then only upgrades. Which suites the target market just fine. I have the 11-22mm and the 18-150. I have absolutely no need for any other lens. My guess is that the vast majority of M owners (not forum dwellers) feel exactly the same way.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2018)

fullstop said:


> ef-s and crop mirrorslappers are as good as dead.
> 
> EOS M5/M6 II and a new low end M body will take care of all those rebels and anything up to 80D.




As dead as you or me. Well, actually I'm not sure about you, but I've got decades left (and given your disparagement of Canon's execs based on their age, I suspect you do, too...just as long as you don't literally hold your breath waiting for that M85/2.4 IS  ). Canon will keep developing and releasing APS-C DSLRs until there is no more market for them...and right now, the market for them is much larger than for MILCs.


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## fullstop (Sep 11, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> As dead as you or me. Well, actually I'm not sure about you, but I've got decades left (and given your disparagement of Canon's execs based on their age, I suspect you do, too...just as long as you don't literally hold your breath waiting for that M85/2.4 IS  ). Canon will keep developing and releasing APS-C DSLRs until there is no more market for them...and right now, the market for them is much larger than for MILCs.




It would be very interesting to see sales numbers (units) of all Rebels + 77D, 80D vs. EOS M5/6/50 for 2018 full year. Globally.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2018)

fullstop said:


> It would be very interesting to see sales numbers (units) of all Rebels + 77D, 80D vs. EOS M5/6/50 for 2018 full year. Globally.


Yes, but we won't.

What we do know is that MILC shipments to Asia outnumber those to the rest of the world. We also know that in Japan, Canon's top selling ILC are (in descending order): Kiss X9i (Rebel T7i/800D) > Kiss X9 (Rebel SL2/200D) > Kiss M (M50) > 80D > M100. In other words, of Canon's top five domestic ILCs, three are DSLRs...including the top two.

If Canon were to discontinue APS-C DSLRs any time soon, they'd actually be as stupid as you seem to think they are (and just to be unambiguous about it, they're not).


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## Rocky (Sep 11, 2018)

dak723 said:


> Canon considers the M to be their COMPACT camera line. I think this tells us that R cameras (even R APS-C if they go that route) will basically be DSLR size as the new R has shown to be. The M system is meant for a target market that wants small and light and SIMPLE and INEXPENSIVE. There will not be high end zooms or "big" zooms. Perhaps 2 or 3 more lenses over the next few years - then only upgrades. Which suites the target market just fine. I have the 11-22mm and the 18-150. I have absolutely no need for any other lens. My guess is that the vast majority of M owners (not forum dwellers) feel exactly the same way.


Agree. M's serves the group that is happy with APS-C, need a system that is small, light weight and reasonable priced and good enough is good enough mentality. I moved from 20D+40D into M+M2( I alway travel with 2 cameras). Now I got the M50+M2. as for lens, I have 18-55, 11-22, 20 and the 15-45 ( paid $70 as a kit with the M50, just cannot resist the deal). The 15-45 is surprisingly good. I even pack the EF 28-135 with adapter for occasional use. Everything fits in the old Lowepro Nova 3 case. That is as compact as anybody can get.


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## andrei1989 (Sep 11, 2018)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> EOS R bodies will be getting bigger not smaller


why do they necessarily need to get bigger? my concern with the new RF mount is that it can (and most probably will) fit a crop sensor for use with the lenses, like ef-s was for ef. at that point what's the purpose of the M line?



Rocky said:


> M's serves the group that is happy with APS-C, need a system that is small, light weight and reasonable priced and good enough is good enough mentality


yes, i would be in that target group. but i'm also thinking about the future, if canon decide to scrap the M line completely i'm left with something that won't get anything new and i wouldn't be able to update without throwing a ton of money out the window


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## Rocky (Sep 11, 2018)

andrei1989 said:


> why do they necessarily need to get bigger? my concern with the new RF mount is that it can (and most probably will) fit a crop sensor for use with the lenses, like ef-s was for ef. at that point what's the purpose of the M line?
> 
> 
> yes, i would be in that target group. but i'm also thinking about the future, if canon decide to scrap the M line completely i'm left with something that won't get anything new and i wouldn't be able to update without throwing a ton of money out the window


If Canon scrap the M system after 5 year.we have already go our money’s worth. Then it is time to upgrade.


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## andrei1989 (Sep 11, 2018)

Rocky said:


> If Canon scrap the M system after 5 year.we have already go our money’s worth. Then it is time to upgrade.



and would you be willing to start fresh with a completely new system? be it R or E or X? wouldn't you want to upgrade the body and still be able to use some lenses or viceversa?


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2018)

andrei1989 said:


> what do you think is the future of the EF-M mount? will it slowly vanish and be replaced with a small crop R camera?


Relax, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. APS-C ILCs still vastly outsell FF ILCs, the M line isn't going anywhere. 



andrei1989 said:


> will it continue as a low cost/low expectations platform and see 1 lens every 2 years (best case)?


Where do you get the idea that one lens every two years is 'best case'? The average to date has been one EF-M lens per year. Having a basic knowledge of facts can really help your credibility.


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## andrei1989 (Sep 11, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Where do you get the idea that one lens every two years is 'best case'? The average to date has been one EF-M lens per year. Having a basic knowledge of facts can really help your credibility.



ok, i said 2 years since that what it's been until this new 32mm. you're right they have released lenses more often but still...8 lenses in 6 years and 1 of them discontinued...by comparison the ef mount got 23 lenses...but ef-s also got 8 and 2 of which were revisions released in the same period...


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## Rocky (Sep 11, 2018)

andrei1989 said:


> and would you be willing to start fresh with a completely new system? be it R or E or X? wouldn't you want to upgrade the body and still be able to use some lenses or viceversa?


I changed from EF to EF-M (20D+40D to M+M2) after using EF for 7 years.


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 11, 2018)

I'm quite happy with my M6, 11-22mm, 15-45mm, 22mm F/2 plus adaptor.

But 
i) I like it also because I could use it as a backup for my 6D body if it failed
ii) I wouldn't mind if it was a bit larger.

So, in the long run, if/when 
- Canon develops an APS-C R Line (RF Mount with APS-C Sensor), and 
- I replace my 6D with the current or a future R Full Frame body
then
I will switch from my M body and lenses to such APS-C R bigger and "RF compatible" body (even if the M system isn't discontinued).


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## Rocky (Sep 11, 2018)

andrei1989 said:


> ok, i said 2 years since that what it's been until this new 32mm. you're right they have released lenses more often but still...8 lenses in 6 years and 1 of them discontinued...by comparison the ef mount got 23 lenses...but ef-s also got 8 and 2 of which were revisions released in the same period...


Out of the 23 EF lenses, how many have you bought? how many you would like to have? As for as I am concern. I have already all the EF-M lenses that I would like to have. I am not a big fan of telephoto shooting. EF-M 18-150 is a pie in the sky for me. also I do not like to spend $500 for a plastic mount lens.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2018)

andrei1989 said:


> ok, i said 2 years since that what it's been until this new 32mm. you're right they have released lenses more often but still...8 lenses in 6 years and 1 of them discontinued...by comparison the ef mount got 23 lenses...but ef-s also got 8 and 2 of which were revisions released in the same period...


Exactly. EF-M is getting basically the same ‘love’ as EF-S. Also, those 23 EF lenses work on APS-C DSLRs and on EOS M bodies via the mount adapter. A smaller image circle offers advantages for certain lens designs, and those are the lenses we see in EF-S and EF-M format.


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## andrei1989 (Sep 12, 2018)

Rocky said:


> Out of the 23 EF lenses, how many have you bought? how many you would like to have? As for as I am concern. I have already all the EF-M lenses that I would like to have. I am not a big fan of telephoto shooting. EF-M 18-150 is a pie in the sky for me. also I do not like to spend $500 for a plastic mount lens.


bought the 40mm and sold the 40mm, reluctantly, but it didn't make sense on the m5 with an adapter
bought the 24mm pancake and sold the 24 pancake because i didn't like the fl
bought 55-250 and love it on the m5, even with an adapter
i might buy the new 50 1.8 but i have the ef-s 60 now so...



neuroanatomist said:


> EF-M is getting basically the same ‘love’ as EF-S


somehow..when i had the 70D i didn't feel so left out by canon...probably it's a subjective thing...


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## bf (Sep 12, 2018)

First of all, I expect Canon talk about this!
The quasi-L lens they released recently is an indication that this line would not go away.

It seems, M means Small in Canon dictionary and I'll be happy about it! I first bought an M system because it was on clearance! I stayed with M and purchased an M6 since it offers a nice balance of system size and weight versus sensor size and quality. I use my camera for outdoor activities and I want to carry less. I also like its touchscreen UI. If Canon is listening, perhaps they should release a rugged version for users like me! Now, what happens if Canon kills the M family? I have two bodies that will work for years. I can also switch to Fuji or Sony when needed.

I only have one little EF lens that I use it with the EFM adaptor (50F1.8STM). What if I want a higher quality system? It seems the mount sharing model that Canon and Nikon used to carry is done! Now everyone has to invest in separate systems. I can look at R, Z or A. Even Fuji's medium format may become a practical option. For me, it's not an immediate need so I won't act till later.


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## Rocky (Sep 12, 2018)

bf said:


> First of all, I expect Canon talk about this!
> The quasi-L lens they released recently is an indication that this line would not go away.
> 
> It seems, M means Small in Canon dictionary and I'll be happy about it! I first bought an M system because it was on clearance! I stayed with M and purchased an M6 since it offers a nice balance of system size and weight versus sensor size and quality. I use my camera for outdoor activities and I want to carry less. I also like its touchscreen UI. If Canon is listening, perhaps they should release a rugged version for users like me! Now, what happens if Canon kills the M family? I have two bodies that will work for years. I can also switch to Fuji or Sony when needed.
> ...


What I got in the M system should last me a while even after Canon have abandon the M system. I have no intention to up grade to something else.


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