# New EF-M Prime Likely Coming Ahead of CP+ [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 17, 2018)

```
We’re told that there are two new EF-M lenses slated for release in 2018, and the first one will likely come ahead of CP+, which begins on March 1, 2018.</p>
<p>We weren’t told the focal length of the prime, and we don’t want to speculate either. The second EF-M lens will be a zoom. Again, no focal length was given and this will come later in the year we’re told.</p>


<p>We’re expecting the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/eos-2000d-eos-3000d-eos-4000d-eos-m50-registered-with-russian-agency/">already leaked EOS M50</a> to be announced at around the same time.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<p><strong>Purchase and rental options:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://bhpho.to/2DGygK8">Canon EOS M at B&H Photo</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.pjatr.com/t/TUJGRktHSkJGRk5HSklCRkpOSkVN?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lensrentals.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3DEOS%2BM">Canon EOS M at Lensrentals.com</a></li>
</ul>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## jolyonralph (Jan 17, 2018)

What zoom could they do?

the EF-M 11-22 is pretty much perfect at what it does.
the EF-M 55-200 is not a bad performer.

So unlikely to be ultra-wide or tele zoom.


The 18-55 was discontinued, but that size of kit lens is unpopular now (people want compact lenses) so the 15-45 and the 18-150 are perfectly reasonable for their target audiences.

Could we finally be seeing the 'pro' zoom lens, which I have heard will be something like the EF-S 15-85 in range and quality (ie it won't be a fixed aperture zoom) or perhaps just a replacement for the 15-45 with, maybe, a little more speed on the long end.

We've been waiting for primes since forever, I'd like to see a fast 35mm (f/2 or better).


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2018)

I'm going to guess it'll be a 50mm prime with IS. Probably f/2, but maybe f/2.8 to keep the size down. 

But...it could also be the recently-patented 9.5mm f/4 lens.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> What zoom could they do?
> the EF-M 11-22 is pretty much perfect at what it does.



Canon recently patented an EF-M 9-18mm f/4-5.6. A zoom starting at 14mm FFeq would be an intereseting addition, particularly if it offers similar IQ to the M11-22.




jolyonralph said:


> Could we finally be seeing the 'pro' zoom lens, which I have heard will be something like the EF-S 15-85 in range and quality



I could see a 15-85 variable aperture, similar in size to the 18-150, being a popular lens for the M series.


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## okaro (Jan 17, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'm going to guess it'll be a 50mm prime with IS. Probably f/2, but maybe f/2.8 to keep the size down.
> 
> But...it could also be the recently-patented 9.5mm f/4 lens.



I doubt 50 mm as Canon has the EF 50 mm f/1.8 which works nicely with EOS M. About 30 mm Normal would be nice with a fast aperture.


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## traveller (Jan 17, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > Could we finally be seeing the 'pro' zoom lens, which I have heard will be something like the EF-S 15-85 in range and quality
> ...



A 15-85 f/2.8-4 would be even nicer! Combined with a 55mm f/1.8, it might just be enough to persuade me to part with my Fuji system. Now that the EOS M5 has dropped a bit in price here in the UK, it might be very tempting... how does it perform with the EF-EOS M Mount Adapter?


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2018)

Please complete the trinity they started with the 22. 

53mm
85mm


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## Random Orbits (Jan 17, 2018)

Intrigued. Really curious about the prime but not too excited about the zoom. With the M3, the 22 f/2 was my most use lens followed by the 55-200. Liked the idea of the 18-150 but then I compared it to the 18-55/55-200 on TDP and passed even though some here use it and like it. Also passed on the 15-45 and kept the 18-55 for similar reasons.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 17, 2018)

the 15-45 needs a re-work to a full pancake styled lens such as what just about all the competition has.

there's also pretty much a need for some good zooms 15-85 or a 17-55/2.8 for the mount as well, if it's going to mirror the APS-C DSLR line.

50mm 1.8 makes the most sense from a lens standpoint, should be easy for them to do. 35/2.0 would be another one.

can't see them doing the 9mm fisheye. too specialist for the mount.


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## exquisitor (Jan 17, 2018)

As there are already 22/2.0 and 28/3.5 available, the new 35/whatever would make this focal length range even more crowded. So my guess is rather for 40-50 mm region. Probably native pancake 40/2.8 or 40/2.0 or something like 50/1.8.
As for the zoom I would also guess 15-85 to come. It is a very popular lense on APS-C DSLRs, it makes sense to have it also for EOS M.


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## woodman411 (Jan 17, 2018)

Maybe it's the EFM version of the G1X Mark III's 15-45 f/2.8-5.6, which hopefully replaces the existing efm 15-45 f/3.5-5.6.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 17, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> We weren’t told the focal length of the prime,* and we don’t want to speculate either*.



But WE do 

(emphasis in quote is mine)


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## jasny (Jan 17, 2018)

Per analogiam to EF-S it's gonna be 60mm macro ;D Probably equipped with STM and (H)IS.


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## docsmith (Jan 17, 2018)

Several additions would be welcome:

15-85 or really anything that improves the IQ and focal length range of the 15-45
a real UWA, starting at 8 or 9 mm and going to ~20 mm
a "high end" general purpose zoom (a constant aperture f/4 or f/2.8 zoom with great IQ)

As for the prime, another pancake especially around 50 mm equivalent would be interesting. But, generally, that just isn't how I use my M body. It isn't used for specialty "prime lens" photography. If I want ultimate IQ, I grab my 5D. But, I would welcome quality additions to the lineup and appreciate that others want primes.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 17, 2018)

exquisitor said:


> Probably native pancake 40/2.8 or 40/2.0 or something like 50/1.8.



wouldn't be a pancake. it's a pancake in EF because the mount registration distance is 44mm.


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## BillB (Jan 17, 2018)

Something like a 45mm or 50mm prime would pair up very nicely with either the 22mm prime or the 11-22 zoom. 

So Canon might finally come up with a 50mm F2.0 IS! -- except that it would be EF-M. Of course, it would most likely be STM anyway, so that wouldn't be any good even if it was an EF.


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## schmidtfilme (Jan 17, 2018)

I would like to see a 85 f2


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## aceflibble (Jan 17, 2018)

Reminder that the best-selling, by far, prime lenses for most mirrorless systems are pancakes. People should shelve their ideas for fast telephotos (or tele-equivalent) with IS. Something along the lines of a simple 35mm f/2 (or slower) is what the smart money bets on.


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## vangelismm (Jan 17, 2018)

slclick said:


> Please complete the trinity they started with the 22.
> 
> 53mm
> 85mm



Plus an 15mm and i can move to the M5.


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## CincyTriGuy (Jan 17, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> The 18-55 was discontinued, but that size of kit lens is unpopular now (people want compact lenses) so the 15-45 and the 18-150 are perfectly reasonable for their target audiences.
> 
> Could we finally be seeing the 'pro' zoom lens, which I have heard will be something like the EF-S 15-85 in range and quality (ie it won't be a fixed aperture zoom) or perhaps just a replacement for the 15-45 with, maybe, a little more speed on the long end.



When the original M came out I bought the kit with the 18-55 but I barely used it and it's been sitting on a shelf collecting dust for years.

I have a 1Dx Mark II and a G7x. I recently went on vacation and I wanted something in between those to take with me. I figured since I already have an EF-M 18-55 I might as well just get the M6 body only and slap the 18-55 on it.

I absolutely loved it and didn't have any complaints with the size of the lens. My biggest issue with the EF-M lenses is their variable aperture and generally being too slow on the long end. If there was something with more reach than my 18-55 and was either fixed or faster, I'd be all over it and I wouldn't really care about the physical size of the lens. For the most part anyway; I did take some shots with the EF adapter and 24-70 f/2.8 and that sort of bulk really starts to detract from the size advantage gained from a body like the M6 in the first place.


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## Larsskv (Jan 17, 2018)

okaro said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to guess it'll be a 50mm prime with IS. Probably f/2, but maybe f/2.8 to keep the size down.
> ...



+1 on the 30mm! I am spoiled with fast primes on my FF kit, and therefore have a hard time finding any joy in using slow EF-M zoom lenses. The 22mm see some use, but that is pretty much it. I am hoping for a small preferably pancake 30-35mm lens with an aperture faster than f2.8. 

I realize that the EF-M 28mm f3.5 macro makes it unlikely that they release a 30mm lens now, but fingers crossed. A fast 50mm seems more realistic.

I am pleased with the sharpness of my EF-M lenses, especially the 22mm and the 11-22. However, I am always a bit underwhelmed when I see the pictures made with these lenses. They lack in terms of color, clarity and contrast. I hope Canon will release some reasonably sized EF-M lenses with L-class quality in the near future.


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## ritholtz (Jan 17, 2018)

traveller said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jolyonralph said:
> ...


Canon sold M6 with 18-150mm lens kit for throwaway price during holiday sale. Kicking myself for not jumping on that deal. My Sigma 17-50mm lens with cheap SL2 along with little FF itch complicates whole decision making for me. :-\


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## brad-man (Jan 17, 2018)

Since in my wildest dreams I would not have guessed that the _second_ M prime offered would be an f/3.5, I shall refrain from prognostication. I'll just hope for an EF-M 32 f/1.8 IS and a EF-M 15-45 f/4.0 IS. I am more concerned with quality than I am with size. Sadly, I know I am in the minority on this...


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## bholliman (Jan 17, 2018)

I'm hoping for a 30-35mm f/2 prime and a higher quality standard zoom, but doubt we will get both - maybe the first one? 

I think I'd like to see a fixed aperture (f/4)? std zoom in the 15-55 range, but that would be a rather large lens, defeating the main advantage of the M series. The current 15-45 is very compact, but pretty underwhelming optically. 




exquisitor said:


> As there are already 22/2.0 and 28/3.5 available, the new 35/whatever would make this focal length range even more crowded. So my guess is rather for 40-50 mm region. Probably native pancake 40/2.8 or 40/2.0 or something like 50/1.8.



The 28/3.5 is a nice lens, but slow. f/3.5 is fine for Macro work, but not not for low light shallow DOF purposes. I hope Canon agrees and gives us a 30/2 STM.


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## bf (Jan 17, 2018)

my vote is something faster than f2 in range of 40-90.


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## NorbR (Jan 17, 2018)

I'm hoping we finally get one of the lenses I've been waiting for, essentially clones of Fuji's 35/2 or 50/2. Compact and reasonably fast, good at f/2, great at f/2.8. Like big brothers to the current 22/2. Any one of those would be an instant buy from me. 

But I've learned to manage my expectations when it comes to the M line ... so my guess is, we'll get a fisheye ???


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## exquisitor (Jan 18, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> exquisitor said:
> 
> 
> > Probably native pancake 40/2.8 or 40/2.0 or something like 50/1.8.
> ...


Can you explain please? I am not a physicist whatever, but if what you say is true, then how it comes that pancake EF-S 24/2.8 would exist. EF-S mount has the same flange distance as EF. Furthermore Fuji X line has pancake at 27 mm, which is quite more than 17.7 mm flange distance.


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## Tangent (Jan 18, 2018)

schmidtfilme said:


> I would like to see a 85 f2



With IS of course. Sounds good to me as well. 

And use a filter size (eg 55mm) that has commonality with some of the other ef-m lenses, please.


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## bholliman (Jan 18, 2018)

Tangent said:


> And use a filter size (eg 55mm) that has commonality with some of the other ef-m lenses, please.



Any type of consistency in filter sizes would be a great improvement. The current EF-M lenses have filter sizes all over the map.


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## ozwineguy (Jan 18, 2018)

I am so keen on some decent EF-M glass. I bought the M5 because I wanted a lighter camera than my 5Ds and 5DIV for shots of my kids at the playground. I liked that it can work with my existing EF lenses, but then most of my lenses are L glass, so I didn't end up saving as much weight as I would have liked.

I have the EF-M 22mm, 11-22mm (both great, but wider than I like for what I use the M5 for, apart from the occasional hiking shot) and the 15-45mm (not so great, although has been good for some recent videos).

I was actually thinking of selling the M5 because I'm not using it as much as I thought I would, and I kinda dislike stepping between the interface on the M5 and the 5Ds and 5DIV. But if there's something like a fast (f2 or wider) 50mm(ish) equivalent coming out, then I can see myself holding onto the M5 and using it much more. Especially if it's relatively small.

I had considered the EF 35mm f/2 IS, but it seems expensive for glass that will only be used on my M5 (I already have 35mm f/1.4L II, so it won't expand my FF kit).

Bottom line, it's the news I've been hoping to hear for awhile, but it all depends on focal length, max aperture and size (and, of course, performance).


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## LSXPhotog (Jan 18, 2018)

For the LOVE of all that is holy, please make a fast zoom or prime. I would prefer a fast zoom to replace the 15-45 I have. It's a good lens for what I use it for, but having more light gathering ability and increased size isn't entirely a bad thing - look at the Fuji 18-55mm f/2.8-4 for APS-C, it's not too large and bulky.


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## eosuser1234 (Jan 18, 2018)

I think the quality and specs these lens and the quality of the new flash will be a key sign for what the FF mirrorless from Canon will look like. If it is a near PRO quality product with EF-M mount, than I would read that the FF mirrorless could possibly be a EF-M mount. Same goes for the mirrorless flash. If it is some 90 or 200 series, I would not read much into it, but if it is a quality 300-600series mirrorless flash, I could see it being aimed at FF mirrorless with hotshoe but no built in flash.


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## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2018)

My hammerlock predictions:

1) Neither lens will have ring USM

2) At least one of the two lenses will be something no one was really screaming for... but on second thought, every system has had something like it. Think EF-M 60mm f/2.8 IS macro STM for a 100mm FF equivalent, 18-200 f/slow IS STM, think 56mm f/2 IS STM for a portraiture option, etc.

3) It will not be the EF-M 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM super standard zoom you've always wanted. It will be less exciting than that.

- A


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## Wizardly (Jan 18, 2018)

Oh please, oh please be a 26mm f/2 IS STM or a 15mm f/2.4 STM!


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## dlee13 (Jan 18, 2018)

Not long ago there was a patent for the 15-45mm to have a much better variable aperture of f/1.8-f/3.5 which would make the M bodies amazing travel kits. I got the current 15-45mm in the kit when I bought the M5 but I never use it due to the poor aperture.


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## exquisitor (Jan 18, 2018)

eosuser1234 said:


> I think the quality and specs these lens and the quality of the new flash will be a key sign for what the FF mirrorless from Canon will look like. If it is a near PRO quality product with EF-M mount, than I would read that the FF mirrorless could possibly be a EF-M mount. Same goes for the mirrorless flash. If it is some 90 or 200 series, I would not read much into it, but if it is a quality 300-600series mirrorless flash, I could see it being aimed at FF mirrorless with hotshoe but no built in flash.



If FF mirrorless from Canon coming anytime soon... Besides the new lens would be probably for APS-C only, so no relevance for FF. And there are excellent flashes from Canon out there. Why not use them with EOS M now? What this "mirrorless" flash should mean?


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## Rocky (Jan 18, 2018)

canon should have make a EF-M 22mm f2.0 with IS.


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## LDS (Jan 18, 2018)

exquisitor said:


> What this "mirrorless" flash should mean?



Don't know, a bare bulb one, probably, without any "mirror" behind the bulb....


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## jolyonralph (Jan 18, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> 3) It will not be the EF-M 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM super standard zoom you've always wanted. It will be less exciting than that.



Who would want that? It'd be big and heavy. 

Now, a 2.8-4 zoom may be compact/light enough to be sensible. But I suspect the very best we would hope for in a standard pro zoom would be f/4 constant. But more likely f/3.5-5.6


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## slclick (Jan 18, 2018)

No more wide-ish EF-M's please. We have that covered to a certain extent but there is no prime with a FL greater than 28 and it's not fast by any means. Give me a 50 or an 80.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 18, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> But I suspect the very best we would hope for in a standard pro zoom would be f/4 constant. But more likely f/3.5-5.6



I suspect hoping for any sort of standard *pro* zoom EF-M lens is a pipe dream.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 18, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> I suspect hoping for any sort of standard *pro* zoom EF-M lens is a pipe dream.



Well, yes, the chances of getting an EF-M 'L' lens are close to zero. What I should have said was "higher-quality" than the baseline low-end zooms we have now.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 18, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect hoping for any sort of standard *pro* zoom EF-M lens is a pipe dream.
> ...



The M11-22 delivers quite good optical quality, albeit with a slow aperture, and the 22/2 is no slouch. Generally, I'm not sure we'll ever see much better than that in the lineup. Among top-notch IQ, small size, and reasonable cost, the best you can do is two of three (and usually it's the last two paired up, not the first two).


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## eosuser1234 (Jan 18, 2018)

exquisitor said:


> eosuser1234 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the quality and specs these lens and the quality of the new flash will be a key sign for what the FF mirrorless from Canon will look like. If it is a near PRO quality product with EF-M mount, than I would read that the FF mirrorless could possibly be a EF-M mount. Same goes for the mirrorless flash. If it is some 90 or 200 series, I would not read much into it, but if it is a quality 300-600series mirrorless flash, I could see it being aimed at FF mirrorless with hotshoe but no built in flash.
> ...



Or they could design a 50mm that could have the EF-M mount intended for an image circle to cover full frame sensor. But they probably wont.


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## schmidtfilme (Jan 18, 2018)

Wizardly said:


> Oh please, oh please be a 26mm f/2 IS STM or a 15mm f/2.4 STM!



Why? There is already a 22 f2 which I own and which is really great. What would a 26 f2 deliver?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 18, 2018)

schmidtfilme said:


> Wizardly said:
> 
> 
> > Oh please, oh please be a 26mm f/2 *IS* STM or a 15mm f/2.4 STM!
> ...



IS.


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## AvTvM (Jan 18, 2018)

only lens really missing in EF-M lineup today is a compact, moderately fast short tele-prime. 
EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM ... with IQ like the EF-M 22/2.0 and size like EF-M 18-55 ... here we come! 8)


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## okaro (Jan 18, 2018)

CincyTriGuy said:


> I have a 1Dx Mark II and a G7x. I recently went on vacation and I wanted something in between those to take with me. I figured since I already have an EF-M 18-55 I might as well just get the M6 body only and slap the 18-55 on it.



I haven't used the 18-55 mm since I got my G9 X. I see it offering nothing extra. Even the use of 22 mm has been pretty rare. I mainly use 11-22 mm and 55-200 mm and 50 mm. They offer significant extra.


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## okaro (Jan 18, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> only lens really missing in EF-M lineup today is a compact, moderately fast short tele-prime.
> EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM ... with IQ like the EF-M 22/2.0 and size like EF-M 18-55 ... here we come! 8)



But would such a lens be any smaller than the EF one?


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## Luds34 (Jan 18, 2018)

My guess is a 35mm f/2 lens.


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## AvTvM (Jan 18, 2018)

okaro said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > only lens really missing in EF-M lineup today is a compact, moderately fast short tele-prime.
> ...



compared to a full-frame 85/1.8 ... a slower, APS-C only 85/2.4 (or 2.8 ) should offer some potential for smaller size, yes. Beyond that focal length, diameter of front element [to achieve needed size of entrance pupil] will become the determining factor for size (and weight) however. But a sweet, little 85 might just be doable.


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## BillB (Jan 18, 2018)

okaro said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > only lens really missing in EF-M lineup today is a compact, moderately fast short tele-prime.
> ...





okaro said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > only lens really missing in EF-M lineup today is a compact, moderately fast short tele-prime.
> ...



Well, some of us think so. Likely, somewhat smaller than the EF 85mm 1.8. Certainly, a lot smaller and lighter than the new 85mm f1.4 IS, if it ever sees the light of day.


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## AvTvM (Jan 18, 2018)

i guess (!) an EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM could be done in about the same form factor as the EF-M 18-55, and definitely shorter than the 18-150.


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## tron (Jan 18, 2018)

woodman411 said:


> Maybe it's the EFM version of the G1X Mark III's 15-45 f/2.8-5.6, which hopefully replaces the existing efm 15-45 f/3.5-5.6.


Why? For about half a stop only in the wide side of the zoom?


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## slclick (Jan 18, 2018)

tron said:


> woodman411 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it's the EFM version of the G1X Mark III's 15-45 f/2.8-5.6, which hopefully replaces the existing efm 15-45 f/3.5-5.6.
> ...



Please for the love of all things sacred, no more slow zooms.


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## brad-man (Jan 18, 2018)

slclick said:


> Please for the love of all things sacred, no more slow zooms.





LSXPhotog said:


> For the LOVE of all that is holy, please make a fast zoom or prime. I would prefer a fast zoom to replace the 15-45 I have. It's a good lens for what I use it for, but having more light gathering ability and increased size isn't entirely a bad thing - look at the Fuji 18-55mm f/2.8-4 for APS-C, it's not too large and bulky.



Without being overly spiritual, I'd like to reiterate my request for a EF-M 32 f/1.8 IS and a EF-M 15-45 f/4 IS.


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## dppaskewitz (Jan 19, 2018)

The new prime is going to be an EF-M 28mm f/2.8 IS STM. No doubt. How do I know? Because I recently purchased the EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM to use with my M5 and the adapter. Why? Because I wanted a moderately fast walk around lens that was closer to a "normal" focal length (I do have the EF-M 22mm but find it too wide for walking around on vacation, etc., which is where I use the M5 the most). Why didn't I get the 35mm? Because Canon refurb was out. Why didn't I get the EF-M 28mm macro? Because 2.8 is faster and if I'm going to do macro/closeup I'll use my 5DIV and 100 macro or extension tubes. By the way, the EF 28mm is a little heavy on the M5 but gives me way better snaps than the 18-55. I have also used the "new" 50mm f/1.8 with the adapter and like the results with it fairly well, but again a little long for walkaround.


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## ahsanford (Jan 19, 2018)

BillB said:


> Well, some of us think so. Likely, somewhat smaller than the EF 85mm 1.8. Certainly, a lot smaller and lighter than the new 85mm f1.4 IS, if it ever sees the light of day.



I feel like 50s are where APS-C mirrorless still has some skin in the game to keep things physically short, but crop mirrorless 85 is beginning to get into the inflection point where you are no longer saving space.

I'm not saying there's no point to offering a dedicated crop mirrorless 85 over an adapted one, but I think you'd need to dramatically slow the lens down to keep the size reduction attractive. Barrel diameter can certainly be kept smaller with a crop only lens, but I'm not certain you'll save much length over an adapted 85 FF lens here.

Pics below of something 50-60ish vs. something 85/90-ish Fuji / EOS M vs an SL2 with a FF 85 lens. (Sorry I couldn't drop an EF 85 f/1.8 USM in there, but the website tool had neither that nor the same-sized EF 100 f/2 USM.)

- A


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## AvTvM (Jan 19, 2018)

misleading image A ... adapted 50/1.8 STM is no suitable comparison. 
also beats me, why camerasize.com does not include EF 85/1.8 or 100/2.0 ... but - very compact for a FF lens - EF 85/1.8 lens is physically about 50% longer than EF 50/1.4. with adapter it would be way bigger than an EF-M 18-55 sized native EF_M 85/2.4 IS STM ... or if no can do for "innovative Canon" ... at worst I'd also take a 85/2.8 IS STM.


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## ahsanford (Jan 19, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> misleading image A ... adapted 50/1.8 STM is no suitable comparison.



No bias at work here, I'm just making do. I chose the 50 STM because no 50 prime exists for EF-M at that site. 

My point being: no one seems to offer a compact 85-ish lens in dedicated crop mirrorless that I am aware of as it appears that it will not be a shorter lens than a compact 85 FF lens on an adapter, and the decision to make it crop-only would waive off any FF users from buying one. So it's possible the various camera/lens manufacturers see a 50 prime as working in a crop-only footprint, but they'll just leave 85s in a FF variant.

The only company that made their own was Fuji -- and they don't have FF business to fret over.

Could Canon make a compact EF-M 85? Sure. But it might be f/2.8 (as you have gathered) to be attractively small.



> also beats me, why camerasize.com does not include EF 85/1.8 or 100/2.0 ... but - very compact for a FF lens - EF 85/1.8 lens is physically about 50% longer than EF 50/1.4.



I think that's because Canon were cheap SOBs when they made it -- it's an 85mm lens tucked into a 100mm body. See pic from TDP: it's virtually the same outer barrel and size as the 100 f/2, presumably done to save cost.

- A


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## slclick (Jan 19, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > misleading image A ... adapted 50/1.8 STM is no suitable comparison.
> ...



Any 85 EF-M prime 2.8 and under, Canon has my money


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## noncho (Jan 20, 2018)

If Canon were brave enough they would bring some prime that they don't have in EF/EF-s. Something like a small 70 2.0 or 120 2.8. 
But they are not.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2018)

noncho said:


> If Canon were brave enough they would bring some prime that they don't have in EF/EF-s. Something like a small 70 2.0 or 120 2.8.
> But they are not.



If Canon were stupid enough they would bring some prime that the market has no interest in. 

But they are not.


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## noncho (Jan 20, 2018)

The market is eager to have 28 3.5 over any longer prime. And more F6.3 zooms. Absolutely!


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2018)

noncho said:


> The market is eager to have 28 3.5 over any longer prime. And more F6.3 zooms. Absolutely!



Yes, the market wants compact, affordable lenses for the M system. 

Some CR forum members want large, expensive, 'pro' lenses for the M system...or expect Canon to defy the laws of physics and the principles of economics to make the latter into the former. Some CR forum members have a firm grasp of reality. To which group do you belong?


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## AvTvM (Jan 20, 2018)

no, i don't want big, fat expensive CROP lenses. Neither for mirrorslappers nor for a mirrorless system. For a mirrorless crop system like EOS M i wnat compact lenses and accept moderate apertures. "Moderate" meaning f/4.0 for zooms and f/2.0-2.8 for primes. No f/1.4 or even f/1.2 clunkers at 1000 a click. That's where Fuji falls flat on their face. Big, junky lenses, priced like Canon L lenses .. .but only APS-C crop cr*p ... no way, not for me. 

For me (and many others i know): if a lens is big, fat and expensive, it better be 100% *full frame* capable = serving state of the art 36x24mm sensors perfectly all the way into far corners. 

Crop are wonderful too, as long as they are optically decent, as small and light as possible and as dirt-cheap as possible. Lenses like EF-M 22/2.0, EF-M 11-22 being perfect examples.  

Many Canon EOS M users want a short, compact, moderately short-fast/portrait lens for EOS M system. More than enough WW choice. But no native prime longer than 22 mm is a joke. So Canon, just go ahead and launch that EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM ... USD/€ 349,- please.


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## brad-man (Jan 20, 2018)

I want a choice. For many, size is the most important criterion. Sometimes it is for me as well. But I would like the option to be able to shoot my M5 in low light without a flash as well as use shallow depth of field when the need arises. I am not hoping for an f/2.8 standard zoom or f/1.4 primes, because those would be (in my opinion) too large. However, a few f/4 zooms and a handful of f/1.8-2 primes can be made small enough to not incur too much of a burden for me. The M5 is an enthusiast camera that isn't going to fit in anyone's pocket, so size is not all that matters. My girlfriend backs me up on this


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## tron (Jan 20, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> no, i don't want big, fat expensive CROP lenses. Neither for mirrorslappers nor for a mirrorless system. For a mirrorless crop system like EOS M i wnat compact lenses and accept moderate apertures. "Moderate" meaning f/4.0 for zooms and f/2.0-2.8 for primes. No f/1.4 or even f/1.2 clunkers at 1000 a click. That's where Fuji falls flat on their face. Big, junky lenses, priced like Canon L lenses .. .but only APS-C crop cr*p ... no way, not for me.
> 
> For me (and many others i know): if a lens is big, fat and expensive, it better be 100% *full frame* capable = serving state of the art 36x24mm sensors perfectly all the way into far corners.
> 
> ...


You can build a small system just slightly different: EOS 200D (SL2) EF-S10-18 IS STM EF-S18-55 IS STM (or another one) EF-S24 2.8 STM. Then you can add the EF40 2.8 STM and/or the EF85 1.8 and/or the EF50 1.8 STM and/or the EF35mm 2.0 IS. All small, with decent IQ and affordable. My opinion. Not EOS M series but close.


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2018)

f/2 for M primes is my quite reasonable asking. f/2.8 for zooms might be a stretch in order to keep price and size down so I'll hold off opining on that area.


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## BillB (Jan 20, 2018)

slclick said:


> f/2 for M primes is my quite reasonable asking. f/2.8 for zooms might be a stretch in order to keep price and size down so I'll hold off opining on that area.



Could you list in priority order which native EF-M F2.0 primes you would like to see?


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## noncho (Jan 20, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> noncho said:
> 
> 
> > The market is eager to have 28 3.5 over any longer prime. And more F6.3 zooms. Absolutely!
> ...



I sold my M system due the lack of native primes. 
Nobody asked for large, pro, F1.2 lenses here, but for normal F2 primes. 
70 2.0 could be very small, I remember for example the old Pentax 70 2.4 - very small and nice for DSLR 1.5 crop. 

It's ugly to tell that people want too much, when they want normal things. This is the reality.


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2018)

BillB said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > f/2 for M primes is my quite reasonable asking. f/2.8 for zooms might be a stretch in order to keep price and size down so I'll hold off opining on that area.
> ...



85, 50 ish


That's my personal preference since I like the 85 and 135 FF perspective. I do not think that will be a Canon marketing priority. I bet a 35 f/2 will be next.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2018)

noncho said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > noncho said:
> ...



People can want and wish all they want. But as my ol' Irish Da used to say, "Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which fills up first." 

In general, consumers prefer zooms...and Canon tends to give the masses what they want for a mass-market system.

I do think we'll see some wide/normal primes for the EF-M mount in the future, but not too many, and not too fast (35/2, 50/2.8, maybe an 85/4 but I doubt it).


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## BillB (Jan 20, 2018)

slclick said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...




85, 45-50ish, and 30-35ish seems about right me also. All three are available in an adaptable EF mount, although only the 35mm has IS. I lean toward the 45-50ish length because I think it pairs well with either the 22mm or the 11-22 zoom. Others want something equivalent to FF 50mm.

So the question becomes which focal length does Canon think will bring in some money if they make it in an EF-M mount..


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2018)

BillB said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



I have used my 40 pancake and 50 STM however a native lens will always be faster and more precise and use the complete focusing (MF & peaking) capabilities of the M5. It's pretty interesting (and Dustin will back this up) how the 40 performs so sluggishly on the M5, even for an STM lens. Too bad, I LOVE that pancake. The 50 STM is pretty snappy.


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## AvTvM (Jan 20, 2018)

tron said:


> You can build a small system just slightly different: EOS 200D (SL2) EF-S10-18 IS STM EF-S18-55 IS STM (or another one) EF-S24 2.8 STM. Then you can add the EF40 2.8 STM and/or the EF85 1.8 and/or the EF50 1.8 STM and/or the EF35mm 2.0 IS. All small, with decent IQ and affordable. My opinion. Not EOS M series but close.



Yes, one could. But i dont want no stinking low level mirrorslapper with dinky tunnel-vision viewfinder ... which is still a lot bulkier than a well-designed, hi-end APS_C mirrorless camera. 

And i already got many of the lenses you suggest. The ones with STM AF drive [40/2.8, 50/1.8 STM] I sometimes use with adapter on my EOS M. Non-STM age-old design EF lenses like EF 50/1.4, 85/1.8, 100/2.0 do not work very well AF-wise when adapted to EOS M in my experience. 

There is no denying that an ultra-compact, short portrait-tele is sorely missing in Canon's EF-M lens lineup. Enough choice for ultra-wideangle and wide-angle lenses and f/6.3 zooms, but no native lens above 22mm faster than f/5.6 ... it sucks! 

EF-M 70/2.0 IS STM or EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM ... bring it on, stupid Canon!


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > You can build a small system just slightly different: EOS 200D (SL2) EF-S10-18 IS STM EF-S18-55 IS STM (or another one) EF-S24 2.8 STM. Then you can add the EF40 2.8 STM and/or the EF85 1.8 and/or the EF50 1.8 STM and/or the EF35mm 2.0 IS. All small, with decent IQ and affordable. My opinion. Not EOS M series but close.
> ...



Is there any way you could modify your desires from Canon to not mimic Trumps tweets? Thanks


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## brad-man (Jan 20, 2018)

slclick said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...




You better not mess with him. He's a very stable genius with tremendous insights in the corporate world...


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## AvTvM (Jan 20, 2018)

slclick said:


> Is there any way you could modify your desires from Canon to not mimic Trumps tweets? Thanks



negative. just love political incorrectness. 8)


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## slclick (Jan 21, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any way you could modify your desires from Canon to not mimic Trumps tweets? Thanks
> ...



Well, you picked the most incorrect to emulate.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 21, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> There is no denying that an ultra-compact, short portrait-tele is sorely missing in Canon's EF-M lens lineup. Enough choice for ultra-wideangle and wide-angle lenses and f/6.3 zooms, but no native lens above 22mm faster than f/5.6 ... it sucks!


It's also incorrect, there is the 28mm f3.5.


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## ahsanford (Jan 21, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > There is no denying that an ultra-compact, short portrait-tele is sorely missing in Canon's EF-M lens lineup. Enough choice for ultra-wideangle and wide-angle lenses and f/6.3 zooms, but no native lens above 22mm faster than f/5.6 ... it sucks!
> ...



Ooh. Burn.

- A


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## jolyonralph (Jan 21, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> And i already got many of the lenses you suggest. The ones with STM AF drive [40/2.8, 50/1.8 STM] I sometimes use with adapter on my EOS M. Non-STM age-old design EF lenses like EF 50/1.4, 85/1.8, 100/2.0 do not work very well AF-wise when adapted to EOS M in my experience.



This was the case with the first generation M cameras, but the M5 and M6 handle these lenses just as well as the 80D does.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 21, 2018)

Prediction: 

New EF-M lenses will be

24-70 f/4 IS STM

and

50mm f/1.4 IS STM

Both FF capable.


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## AvTvM (Jan 21, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > There is no denying that an ultra-compact, short portrait-tele is sorely missing in Canon's EF-M lens lineup. Enough choice for ultra-wideangle and wide-angle lenses and f/6.3 zooms, but no native lens above 22mm faster than f/5.6 ... it sucks!
> ...



thx for correction! Forget that Macro thing ... 

does not really change lamentable situation however. Lots of wide-angle stuff and (compact, slow) zooms, but no normal and tele focal lengths of even moderate speed available. 

Even that 28/3.5 macro .. why not an EF-M 60/3.5 IS STM Macro ... ? In a pinch i would have gotten that one as long as no EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM is available.


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## BillB (Jan 22, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Well, a 28mm crop is equivalent to 44.8 FF, which is in the normal range as far as I am concerned. Not very fast, but still normal.


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## AvTvM (Jan 22, 2018)

BillB said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



FOV wise yes ... but it still does not replace the 135mm equivalent FOV i am after ;-)


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