# 70d out in time?



## Snook (Apr 29, 2013)

I am new to DSLR's and will be traveling to Europe for a little over a month (leaving June 10th). I am pretty set on the XXD line, but would be interested in other suggestions. I was rather hopeful of the April 23rd announcement date, but now that has come and gone and no 70D. So do you guys 1) think the 70d bill be released before I leave? Or 2) think I should go for the 60D, or another suggestion.


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## Dylan777 (Apr 29, 2013)

There will be no 70d by Jun 10th


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## DArora (Apr 29, 2013)

Even if it is announced as soon as next week, I doubt that it will be available in market by June 10th.


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## Snook (Apr 29, 2013)

That's what I figured, maybe I just didn't want to hear it. Does anyone have DSLR suggestions, especially for travel photography?


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## brad-man (Apr 29, 2013)

Right now you can pick up a refurbished T4i for $515 direct from Canon. If you need more power, the 7D can be had for $1074.


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## Snook (Apr 29, 2013)

brad-man said:


> Right now you can pick up a refurbished T4i for $515 direct from Canon. If you need more power, the 7D can be had for $1074.



I always hear about the poor low light performance of the 7D, how does it compare to the 60D/rebel line low light capabilities.


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## bardamu (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > Right now you can pick up a refurbished T4i for $515 direct from Canon. If you need more power, the 7D can be had for $1074.
> ...



I use a 550D, which reportedly has slightly better sensor performance than the 7D (see BJP review). The 7D came out first and the 550D and 60D afterwards, so I'd expect the 60D to be similar to the 550D. But if you go to the review of the 60D at DPReview, the section on noise, you can use the little drop-down things to facilitate a direct comparison between all sorts of cameras. Also try DxO Mark. The 550D actually gets a better score than the more recent rebels.

However as pointed out repeatedly on these forums the 7D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 100D and EOS-M all have pretty much the same sensor and it is probably splitting hairs between them in terms of noise, the differences are more in ergonomics, price, build, fps, configurability, viewfinder etc etc.

Do you anticipate doing other types of shooting (eg sports / nature) in the future apart from just travel? If you don't mind the bulk of a DSLR &/or prefer the broad choice of lenses then that's ok, otherwise consider other small-camera options like the Olympus OM-D, Fuji X100S, Sony RX100, etc etc. But if you really are set on a Canon DSLR and I was in your position I would probably buy either a new 650D or 60D or a 2nd hand 550D, 600D or 60D, use it for your trip and then decide what you want to do when the 70D is released (i.e. probably sell it). It will be cheaper than renting, much better than having no camera at all, you won't lose much money and you'll get a bit of a feel for what you like and don't like about the camera. Good luck!


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## jdramirez (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > Right now you can pick up a refurbished T4i for $515 direct from Canon. If you need more power, the 7D can be had for $1074.
> ...


T2i -> 7D all have roughly the same low light performance.


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## jdramirez (Apr 29, 2013)

How much cash do you have to spend? Low light performance won't improve dramatically until you get to a 5D mkii or a 6D. 

I suspect that the 70D will be around $1100 for the body and maybe $1400 with a 18-135mm STM. And you won't find a lower price on it for a few months... Christmas time. 

You can get a 5D mkii for around $1400 (refurbished), so for a $300, that is a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE.

As an FYI, I recently sold a new 60D via Craig's List for $600. I do not believe the 70D will be a $500 upgrade.


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## Snook (Apr 29, 2013)

I am set on going Canon, I actually have already owned a 60D, but returned it when I found out the 70D was imminent. So I actually already own a 50mm 1.8 and Tamron 18-270 VC PZD, as well as some accessories (intervalometer, extra LP-E6, SD Cards...etc)

During my time owning the 60D, I mostly shot landscape/sunset and night street photography. I also will be assisting my sister in shooting a Wedding as well, it will be a nice to get my feet wet into wedding photography.

The amount that I want to spend is tentatively $2000, but I could see myself selling the Tamron, and forking up a little bit more to get a 6D w/ 24-105mm f/4 IS, but then again, I don't know if I could justify the price for essentially a "first-time" DSLR. The GPS feature will be great for traveling being that I will be in 7 different countries while I am in Europe.


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## wickidwombat (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> IThe amount that I want to spend is tentatively $2000, but I could see myself selling the Tamron, and forking up a little bit more to get a 6D w/ 24-105mm f/4 IS, but then again, I don't know if I could justify the price for essentially a "first-time" DSLR. The GPS feature will be great for traveling being that I will be in 7 different countries while I am in Europe.



this is the best option in my opinion

the tamron 18-270 is possibly one of the very worst lenses ever made by anyone

even though you have the 50 1.8 I would still recomend the 40mm pancake on the 6D just because that lens on a high iso FF camera is such a nice light walk around combo that would be prefectly suited for travel and 50mm can be a little tight also you need to stop the 50mm 1.8 down to around 2.2 anyway


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## greger (Apr 29, 2013)

6D with 24-105 for around $2399.88 with rebate. F4 zoom is not optimum set up. You would have to learn your 50mm 1.8 very quickly for low light wedding photos. Then save for 70-200 F2.8 IS ll. As you already have SD cards, 6D is what you should research and possibly buy. Research what Cameras are in shops now, not wait for rumours to appear.


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## BrandonKing96 (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > Right now you can pick up a refurbished T4i for $515 direct from Canon. If you need more power, the 7D can be had for $1074.
> ...


Same sensor. Very little difference in performance. Plus, if you could afford a 7D, you should spare a little cash as used 5D mark II's tend to be very lowly priced nowadays.


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## aj1575 (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> I am new to DSLR's and will be traveling to Europe for a little over a month (leaving June 10th). I am pretty set on the XXD line, but would be interested in other suggestions. I was rather hopeful of the April 23rd announcement date, but now that has come and gone and no 70D. So do you guys 1) think the 70d bill be released before I leave? Or 2) think I should go for the 60D, or another suggestion.



As said before, the 70D won't be out in time.
I suggest you go for the 60D, there are some quite amazing deals out there for this camera. At my local electronics discounter they almost throw it at you, it's so cheap. The 7D is quite a bit bigger and heavier, not something you usually like for travelling, and its a bit more complex to understand and work with. The xxxD series is okay, but it lacks some nice feature (second LCD on top, bigger viewfinder). So the 60D is nice.

Normaly you get a more or less nice lens with the discount 60D package. First choice would be the 15-85, but usually it sells with the 18-135 which is quite okay for travelling, and a step up from the Tamron soupzoom. There is still some money left from you budget, I would suggest you buy a wide angle for that; Canon EF-S 10-22mm or Sigma 8-16mm are good options.


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## Canon-F1 (Apr 29, 2013)

BrandonKing96 said:


> Snook said:
> 
> 
> > brad-man said:
> ...



yeah well.. if someone wants a 7D he will maybe not be happy with a 5D MK2.
you know the 5D MK2 is not exactly a sports camera or famous for it´s great AF system or speed.

but for the OT, as a travel camera, the 5D MK2 will be a nice camera.
thought i would not buy one new.
the price difference between the 6D and the 5D MK2 is non-existent here.

having both, i can say the 6D is the better camera.

we can argue *how much * of an improvement the 6D is. 
canon could sure have implemented a better AF in the 6D... but it is an improvement (except for x-sync and shutter speed).

so for the same price (~80 euro difference here) i would always buy the 6D.


i don´t think the 70D will be out before august.
there is just a cashback action starting in germany for the 60D that will last a month.
so it´s unlikely canon will release a 70D anytime soon.


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## Sella174 (Apr 29, 2013)

Actually, if I were in your position with minimal investment in lenses, I'd go for the Olympus OM-D with Panasonic Leica 25mm f/1.4 lens, plus one of the longer zooms.


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## preppyak (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> During my time owning the 60D, I mostly shot landscape/sunset and night street photography. I also will be assisting my sister in shooting a Wedding as well, it will be a nice to get my feet wet into wedding photography.


60D is just fine for those purposes, though obviously for night stuff a 5dii/6d would be nicer. But, as you can see right away, its hard to find cheap glass for full-frame, so, you'll spend $1500 on the body and another few thousand on lenses. Adds up fast.



> The amount that I want to spend is tentatively $2000, but I could see myself selling the Tamron, and forking up a little bit more to get a 6D w/ 24-105mm f/4 IS, but then again, I don't know if I could justify the price for essentially a "first-time" DSLR.


Well, a 60D is pretty dirt cheap at this point, seen them in the $5-600 range fairly frequently. So, that leaves you $1500 for glass. If you do a lot of travel, the 15-85 would combo nicely with that as your kit lens. And then a few primes (85mm/100mm and probably something wider, maybe 24 or 28mm) and you'd have a decently well rounded kit. The primes would work for street/night photography, 15-85 gives you some landscape flexibility. And for weddings you'd be covered indoors and outdoors for assisting.

And if you eventually decide to go full-frame, all the primes would still work. And the 15-85 holds its value fairly well.


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## CROSSfirePhoto (Apr 29, 2013)

grab a Canon SL1 with a 40mm pancake... great travel setup...


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## Bruce Photography (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> I am new to DSLR's and will be traveling to Europe for a little over a month (leaving June 10th). I am pretty set on the XXD line, but would be interested in other suggestions. I was rather hopeful of the April 23rd announcement date, but now that has come and gone and no 70D. So do you guys 1) think the 70d bill be released before I leave? Or 2) think I should go for the 60D, or another suggestion.



I too shoot Canon and I love my 60D with the 18-200mm. Now -- Canon shooters/lovers avert your eyes.... I like my D7100 with the 18-200 just a little better and you can get lens and camera for $1800 usd. If you had enough for a an external flash you could use commander mode for off-camera flash when possible (diffuser like Gary Fong collapsible Light Sphere good for travelling) would be good for the wedding since the lens is not low light. Perhaps adding a 50mm 1.8 would be a cheap low-light alternative to the external flash.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 29, 2013)

CROSSfirePhoto said:


> grab a Canon SL1 with a 40mm pancake... great travel setup...


Can you post some of your photos with it?


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## Snook (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks guys for the suggestions, please keep them coming! They are extremely helpful! 

One of the problems I have with going APS-C is that I do see myself going full frame in the future, and I don't want to spend any more money on Crop lenses, if I won't be able to use them in the future (unless in crop mode). And the reason I don't just get a 60D with a 24-105, is with the crop factor, I don't know if 24mm-->really 38mm is wide enough.


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## Bruce Photography (Apr 29, 2013)

Snook said:


> Thanks guys for the suggestions, please keep them coming! They are extremely helpful!
> 
> One of the problems I have with going APS-C is that I do see myself going full frame in the future, and I don't want to spend any more money on Crop lenses, if I won't be able to use them in the future (unless in crop mode). And the reason I don't just get a 60D with a 24-105, is with the crop factor, I don't know if 24mm-->really 38mm is wide enough.



Given your future is NOT aps-c, then a used 5d2 with a 24-105 sounds like a pretty good way to start. Good luck.


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## Marsu42 (Apr 29, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Get a camera with GPS.



No, don't - instead buy an external gps logger that is cheaper, more precise (updates more often, better sat feed in your breast pocket than a camera in your bag) and lasts longer with on own battery (like 24h with a charge). Back at the pc use GeoSetter or Lightroom to attach the coordinates from the log file to the pictures.

In-camera gps makes only sense if you want to put the jpeg shots online right after shooting.


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## CROSSfirePhoto (Apr 29, 2013)

Can you post some of your photos with it? 
[/quote]

nope, dont have one, but figured given its tiny design it would travel well plus have the hardward to produce better then a P&S... i have shot with the 40mm pancake and while its limited for range, the pics are sharp and its superlight weight... actually suprised Canon doesn't offer a kit like that...

blessings,
paul


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## CROSSfirePhoto (Apr 29, 2013)

just ran across this about the Canon SL1... and the 40mm pancake... go figure... 

http://leggnet.com/2013/04/canon-eos-100d-tokyo-with-a-tiny-dslr.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

blessings,
paul


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## Snook (Apr 30, 2013)

I think I am leaning towards selling the tamron and getting the 6d w/ 24-105.


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## Bruce Photography (Apr 30, 2013)

Snook said:


> I think I am leaning towards selling the tamron and getting the 6d w/ 24-105.



Sounds like a good decision.


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## Snook (May 1, 2013)

As far as purchasing a 6d kit w/24-105, I am a little lost. I like the idea of buying it through Best Buy (for extended return policy, reward zone points, I am premier silver) but if I buy it online(not best buy), there is no tax? Am I correct with this statement? And if I do buy it online, what website? B&H, Adorama, etc...are there benifits from certain retailers?


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## timmy_650 (May 1, 2013)

So I like adorama if you don't want to try and go cheap off ebay but I don't know if you can get the lens too cheaply. But you can check the price page just fine. 
Back to what I was saying like like adorama, No sale tax unless you live in NY i think. They also do bungles for the same price, if looks like cheap stuff but it is free so that is nice. Right now you can like Buy together and save and get the 70-300 Usm IS lens for $200 which is a steal. Even if you don't want it or need it you can buy and and sell it easy for $300 and pocket $100. 
I plan on getting a 6D too but am waiting for a good canon refurbished sale, so it might be awhile.


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## xps (May 1, 2013)

Snook said:


> I am new to DSLR's and will be traveling to Europe for a little over a month (leaving June 10th). I am pretty set on the XXD line, but would be interested in other suggestions. I was rather hopeful of the April 23rd announcement date, but now that has come and gone and no 70D. So do you guys 1) think the 70d bill be released before I leave? Or 2) think I should go for the 60D, or another suggestion.



Where do you go to? City-travelling? Nature-travelling? shooting Landscape ?


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## Snook (May 1, 2013)

xps said:


> Snook said:
> 
> 
> > I am new to DSLR's and will be traveling to Europe for a little over a month (leaving June 10th). I am pretty set on the XXD line, but would be interested in other suggestions. I was rather hopeful of the April 23rd announcement date, but now that has come and gone and no 70D. So do you guys 1) think the 70d bill be released before I leave? Or 2) think I should go for the 60D, or another suggestion.
> ...



I will be doing a lot of city-travelling and landscapes.


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## xps (May 1, 2013)

Snook said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Snook said:
> ...


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## Don Haines (May 2, 2013)

For all essential purposes, IQ is the same across the rebels, 60D, and 7D. The 60D and 7D give you much better user interface and the 7D gives much better focusing system. 

It is very very very unlikely that the 70D will be out before you go.... I'd recommend getting a 60D, they are very inexpensive now and it is a very capable camera. Whatever camera you choose, the glass will have a greater impact on your photos than which sensor it is. Crop cameras and kit lenses equals soft pictures. Crop camera and good lenses equals sharp pictures.

My walkabout setup is a 60D, a 70-200F4 IS, and a 17-55F2.8. Those two lenses cover most things.... but I also bring a 10-22 when I expect a need for ultra wide angle, or a 400F5.6 when after birds. The 17-55 has to be used to appreciate it... it really should be an L lens. Any of the 70-200's are SHARP!, but I went with the F4 version for lighter weight, and with outdoors use I don't really need the F2.8 version.


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## dbduchene (May 2, 2013)

For travel my 7D almost never comes out of my bag. My 5D MkII gets all of that work. I would go with a used or refurbished 5D MkII or a 6D I got about 80% of my great used off of GL I just took my 17 inch laptop with me. Took a couple of sample shoots and checked them.


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## Hobby Shooter (May 2, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> For all essential purposes, IQ is the same across the rebels, 60D, and 7D. The 60D and 7D give you much better user interface and the 7D gives much better focusing system.
> 
> It is very very very unlikely that the 70D will be out before you go.... I'd recommend getting a 60D, they are very inexpensive now and it is a very capable camera. Whatever camera you choose, the glass will have a greater impact on your photos than which sensor it is. Crop cameras and kit lenses equals soft pictures. Crop camera and good lenses equals sharp pictures.
> 
> My walkabout setup is a 60D, a 70-200F4 IS, and a 17-55F2.8. Those two lenses cover most things.... but I also bring a 10-22 when I expect a need for ultra wide angle, or a 400F5.6 when after birds. The 17-55 has to be used to appreciate it... it really should be an L lens. Any of the 70-200's are SHARP!, but I went with the F4 version for lighter weight, and with outdoors use I don't really need the F2.8 version.


I agree about the 60D. Still a great camera and the shoulder display makes operation easier compared to a rebel.


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## Snook (May 2, 2013)

Ughhh..... I am starting to have second thoughts....$2400 for a 6d Kit, versus a 60d for ~$650ish and $1750 for lenses and accessories. I thought it would be easier than this. :-\


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## timmy_650 (May 2, 2013)

Well are you going to spend the $650 and then want the 6D and waste time and a bit of money. It is hard. I shoot with a t2i and say I am not going to buy anymore lens until I get a 6D but my 70-200 is coming tomorrow.


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## Marsu42 (May 2, 2013)

Snook said:


> Ughhh..... I am starting to have second thoughts....$2400 for a 6d Kit, versus a 60d for ~$650ish and $1750 for lenses and accessories. I thought it would be easier than this. :-\



It isn't easy - that's why I'm still using my 60d, though I have decided to get the 6d sooner or later for those high-iso low-light af shots where the 60d simply cannot deliver. Also Magic Lantern on the 6d isn't ready yet 

But recently I have bought other gear (lighting, flash bracket, filters) that made my pictures so much better and I have learned that the limiting factor is me, not the camera sensor - and that's why I'm so underwhelmed by the 6d that has no *significant* (to me, ymmv) other gains over the 60d. And for €1800 I could buy one stellar zoom or two very good primes... I can encourage everybody to put thought into this, plus the camera body looses value quickly while lenses don't.


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## unfocused (May 2, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> ...I have learned that the limiting factor is me, not the camera sensor...



So true. So easy to get caught up in the "Bigger is Better," "Newer is Better," "More Expensive is Better" mindset. Especially when you take part in a forum where there is always someone who has a bigger, newer, more expensive toy. 

We throw numbers around here like they mean nothing and tend to forget that for most people, spending $1,000 on a camera is one huge investment, not to mention $2,000 to $3,500.


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## candyman (May 2, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ...I have learned that the limiting factor is me, not the camera sensor...
> ...




So true. Thanks for that reminder.


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## Don Haines (May 2, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ...I have learned that the limiting factor is me, not the camera sensor...
> ...


So true.... and we tend to forget the law of diminishing returns...a $5000 camera is not 5 times better than a $1000 camera.


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## jdramirez (May 4, 2013)

I remember when I was hesitant to spend $100 on a digital camera... and what is REALLY funny is that for about 2 minutes I was thinking of buying a digital camera that was a combination camera/binoculars. What the hell was I thinking. 

Over the past 2 to three years I have bought and sold enough gear that I can afford to buy guilt free a 5d mkiii (though it is still on my to do list), a 24-105mm, a 8mm fisheye (rokinon), a 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro, a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS mkii, and a 50mm f/1.4 which I will be upgrading to a 35mm f/1.4 sometime in the near future. 

It's crazy... soon I'll have more camera gear than my car will be worth...


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## xps (May 4, 2013)

candyman said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



In my opinion the quality of an picture ist depending on an dynamic interaction between the camera and the photographer. Most times the photographer ist the limiting factor, sometimes the hardware you use. The ratio between is dynamically variying from situation to situation.
Sure, if you spend 10.000 € in your hardware, the probability to get an sharp, colourful and well exposed picture is higher than with an 700€ equipment. 

But the real "photographical glance (German: Fotographischer Blick)" is something you have to learn sometimes very hard. And some of us will never get the feeling how to get an extraordinary photo. And some of us are aritically more inventive then others.

Some of you are posting great shots, where I say "wow". I often wonder, how and where you took the shot. Tipps to train getting better pictures are often missing. 
I own many books, but only some of them are really teaching how to become a little bit better in photography. Most of my books show superb shots, but do not tell you how they got it. Or they use equipment, you will never own. (I just read an book on studio photography. Very interresting. But the writer uses an extraordinary expensive lightning system.)
So, it would be great, to learn from your experience. 

But to answer the question: 
I would buy an 60D too. the price/performance ratio is very good.
If your budget is limited, you can buy Canon EF-S 4-5,6 17-85 IS (~500€) and the Tamron 4-5,6 70-300 DI VC USD SP (~350€). A polarisation filter should not be missing. 
A friend of mine, who is working in an crisis region, uses this equipment as it could be that he has to leave the region without his equipment. He is satisfied. The 60D and these two lenses are working good togeather. We checked it in an german photographic magazine.


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## Snook (May 6, 2013)

So I went into my local photography store the other night and compared between the 6d and 60d. I tried out probably upwards of 10 different lenses on each. I absolutely loved the 50mm 1.4, 24-70 2.8 II, and 70-200 f/2.8 IS. (Maybe someday on the latter two ) 

After spending well over an hour pouring over details and features of the lenses and cameras, I just ordered the 6d w/ 24-105 f/4L kit. I got it from B&H for $2400 (including the $200 rebate). I think the greatest features attracting me to the 6d is the FF sensor, because I anticipate shooting a lot of landscapes, and the high ISO performance. I actually already have my eye on a 17-40 f/4L for even wider angle landscapes, but that is further down the road.

So what I will be bringing on my trip is the 6d and 24-105 and my iPhone 

Thanks to everyone who helped me out with this decision!


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## Surfwooder (May 6, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> Snook said:
> 
> 
> > IThe amount that I want to spend is tentatively $2000, but I could see myself selling the Tamron, and forking up a little bit more to get a 6D w/ 24-105mm f/4 IS, but then again, I don't know if I could justify the price for essentially a "first-time" DSLR. The GPS feature will be great for traveling being that I will be in 7 different countries while I am in Europe.
> ...



The OP said he is going to buy a 6D, this is a full frame camera. The Tamron 18-270 will not work on the FF body. For Full Frame bodies like the 6D he should be looking at the Tamron 28-300mm XR Di VG, This combo would make a excellent walk-around lens for European travel. I would also take a ultra wide angle too. I think a Canon EF 16-35mm 2.8L II would be great. The building are so close together, and close across from each other a ultra wide is needed to get good shots. Like the plaza in Rome with Trevli Fountain is very tight with close in buildings all around. 

I did see an ad for the 6D at a ebay store for about $1500, body only. They also have a new 7D for $859, but this is a crop sensor, and the Tamron 18-270mm will work fine with this camera. I own a 18-270 and it is a great walk-around lens, for Europe, I would get a Canon EF-S 10-22mm for those close in shots.


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