# Canon 7D Mark II - some questions



## Good24 (Dec 15, 2016)

Good evening, I recently purchased a 7D Mark II to replace my old 7D. So far, so good. A few questions:

1. Is there currently or will there be (expected or speculation) a firmware update that allows the user to see the exposure meter at the bottom of the viewfinder? By default it is on the right side while in Manual mode (which is what I shoot). In the 7D and in my 5DIII it's at the bottom of the viewfinder. It's a big adjustment, would love to see that modified (although I suppose I'll get over it in any event). Was surprised not to find previous discussions of this on this forum, although maybe I just didn't see it or search well. Through other forums I became aware of a work-around (sort of) where you set ISO to "A" but then limit your auto-ISO range to whatever you desire (e.g. 100-1600) and that does the trick ... only I don't like not directly controlling ISO so it's not really sustainable for me. I also note that the exposure meter does not appear on the top plate either, so any thoughts of how to get that to show up would be welcome as well.

2. Is there a way to fire the shutter without recording an image, other than by taking the card out? Say, for example, I want to show off the fast shutter and fps (but don't want to take cards out or record a bunch of nonsense images). 

3. I'm happy the 7D II takes the additional focus screen (the Eh-S). I haven't gotten one yet, but expect to at some point. What are your experiences with this? And why does the B&H listing for the Eh-S state it is for "For Lenses With Apertures of f/1.8-2.8"? Is that just a general recommendation? I understand you can't reasonably use it with a slow aperture but I'm talking about on the fast end, e.g. my 50 L/1.2. There's not a problem with using the Eh-S is there, at 1.2, 1.4, etc.?

Thanks for any insight!


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## Mikehit (Dec 15, 2016)

1 - I would be surprised if they did that as I doubt it is a simple software update

2 - You could set it up for multiple exposures (2 to 9)

3 - I haven't used the Eh-S focus screen so can't advise on that. I presume the restriction is because of the light loss with the screen.


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## Ryananthony (Dec 15, 2016)

Congrats on the 7dii. Im no expert, but here goes. 

1. I have a 1dx, which has the meter on the right side as well, I think you will get used to it rather quickly. Well, I did anyway. I don't know of any work arounds for the 7Dii, I did look into a bit when I was curious about purchasing one in the past. I own a 5D3 as well, and switch between the 1DX with out any issues. You should be fine in a little time.

2. I don't know of anyway to fire the shutter with out recording an image. I have my camera set up so I CAN NOT fire the camera with out a memory card, so even that option is out for me. You CAN change the delete button to automatically highlight the ''ERASE'' So you can quickly delete->erase files. If you were unaware of that. Even so, when I show off the FPS its not like I take 30 shots.

3. I have zero experience with focusing screens, but I think the 1.8-2.8 quote you are referring too is just a generalization. Perhaps to help convince non experienced photographers purchase it since they likely won't be using a lens faster then 1.8. Again, I have no experience.


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## Ryananthony (Dec 15, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> 1 - I would be surprised if they did that as I doubt it is a simple software update



I would think it would be a simple software update since there an exposure comp meter on the bottom like on the 5D3 when you shoot in aperture or shutter priority. But I don't know much.


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## Good24 (Dec 15, 2016)

Ryananthony said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > 1 - I would be surprised if they did that as I doubt it is a simple software update
> ...



Right - this was my thinking as well, the camera already clearly is able to display the exposure meter at the bottom, it just doesn't in Manual mode.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 15, 2016)

The meter on the right side is designed to show EC and FEC, and those can't be shown on the one on the bottom. So, I wouldn't expect what you want from a firmware update. 

The high precision matte screen will work fine with f/1.2 lenses.


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## Lee Lounsbury (Dec 15, 2016)

Well, I can give you some insight to the third question, I've used the EG-S off and on for a while now in my 6d (I'm assuming it's pretty much the same thing as the Eh-s.) 

The standard focusing screen sacrifices some precision for a brighter view. The best way to see this is to hold down the aperture preview button with a lens faster than 2.8 and starting wide open stop it down slowly while looking through the viewfinder. There should be almost no change in brightness or depth of field up until F/2.8. In your viewfinder, you are seeing F/2.8 even when your lens is much faster and therefore what you are seeing is less precise (much more depth of field at 2.8 than 1.2!). More will look in focus than actually is. That being said most of the time when using autofocus this doesn't matter, as obviously, your focusing screen has no effect on autofocus operation. 

The precision focusing screen (Eh-s) changes this so you are now able to see up to 1.8, giving you a much better idea of your depth of field. There will still be some inaccuracy with lenses faster than 1.8 (as you will see the depth of field as if it was 1.8 and not 1.4 or 1.2), but it is a huge difference for the better from the standard screen when focusing manually!

However, with the precision screen, lenses slower than 1.8 will appear much darker in the viewfinder compared to the standard screen. Only really an issue with lenses slower than f/4 in poorly lit areas. The 7dii has the incredible ability to autofocus at f/8 (f4 lens with a 2x or 5.6 with a 1.4x) and with the precision screen, F/8 is like looking through sunglasses....

In summary, precision screens are worth the buy if you shoot often with fast manual focus lenses, or you want to have a better idea of your depth of field when composing with fast primes. But if you mainly shoot fast moving subjects with autofocus, it may not be worth your time. 

Hope that answers your question!


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## Ryananthony (Dec 15, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> The meter on the right side is designed to show EC and FEC, and those can't be shown on the one on the bottom. So, I wouldn't expect what you want from a firmware update.
> 
> The high precision matte screen will work fine with f/1.2 lenses.



But the one on the right shows live metering in manual, not exposure comp. The meter on the bottom shows exposure comp when in Aperture and shutter priority. I have used one before, but I don't own one, so my memory may be a bit off. 

To OP or 7Dii owner, if you are in manual shooting auto ISO with exposure comp +1 where does that show?


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## weixing (Dec 15, 2016)

Good24 said:


> Good evening, I recently purchased a 7D Mark II to replace my old 7D. So far, so good. A few questions:
> 
> 1. Is there currently or will there be (expected or speculation) a firmware update that allows the user to see the exposure meter at the bottom of the viewfinder? By default it is on the right side while in Manual mode (which is what I shoot). In the 7D and in my 5DIII it's at the bottom of the viewfinder. It's a big adjustment, would love to see that modified (although I suppose I'll get over it in any event). Was surprised not to find previous discussions of this on this forum, although maybe I just didn't see it or search well. Through other forums I became aware of a work-around (sort of) where you set ISO to "A" but then limit your auto-ISO range to whatever you desire (e.g. 100-1600) and that does the trick ... only I don't like not directly controlling ISO so it's not really sustainable for me. I also note that the exposure meter does not appear on the top plate either, so any thoughts of how to get that to show up would be welcome as well.


Hi,
The exposure level indicator is on the right side not on the bottom because 7D2 support exposure compensation in Manual mode, so the bottom scale remain as exposure compensation indicator. 7D and 5D3 do not support exposure compensation in Manual mode, so the below scale is use as the the exposure level indicator when in Manual mode.

Have a nice day.


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## jprusa (Dec 15, 2016)

weixing said:


> Good24 said:
> 
> 
> > Good evening, I recently purchased a 7D Mark II to replace my old 7D. So far, so good. A few questions:
> ...


 Unless you are in auto ISO then EC is at the bottom in manual mode.


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## Good24 (Dec 15, 2016)

weixing said:


> Good24 said:
> 
> 
> > Good evening, I recently purchased a 7D Mark II to replace my old 7D. So far, so good. A few questions:
> ...



Thanks, that makes sense. And, Ryananthony, the answer as indicated here is - it's at the bottom (in manual mode and even in auto ISO).

The ability to use exposure comp in manual mode, a feature not available in my 7D or 5DIII, all adds up to explain the difference in location of exposure meter. And yet... when I see the bottom being used as a straight exposure meter in the 7DII (in other modes like Av) it just makes me wonder still whether there could be a way to have an option of doing that in Manual. Even if it meant disabling the EC feature in Manual. 

So I will keep wondering - but it's truly not a big issue. I grew up on a Canon T60 (incidentally not made by Canon) with its rudimentary exposure scale on the right side. I'm sure I can get used to it again. Appreciate all the responses here.


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## Ryananthony (Dec 15, 2016)

Good24 said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > Good24 said:
> ...



On the 1DX, there is only one meter. the one on the right. When you use exposure comp in manual, it shows up on that meter as well, so the 7Dii doesn't actually need the bottom meter. Im curious about the 5DS and 5DSR. I believe they have exposure comp in manual too. Do they have two meters, like the 7Dii? Is the 7D the only body that does this?


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## weixing (Dec 15, 2016)

Good24 said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > Good24 said:
> ...


Hi,
Hmm... Strange... The below scale is still the exposure compensation indicator in my 7DII when in other modes (Av, Tv & P).

Have a nice day.


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## Good24 (Dec 16, 2016)

weixing said:


> Good24 said:
> 
> 
> > weixing said:
> ...



For me, the below scale acts as a straight exposure meter (mimicking exactly what is happening on the right side) if there is no exposure compensation set, i.e. if exposure comp is set at zero. This is the case regardless whether I am in auto ISO or not. (and I'm in Av, in this case.)

I'm not very experienced with exposure comp (or the Av/Tv/P modes) so I'll have to play around with it some more. It's giving me funny results e.g. when I'm in Av and set it to "+1" in the "shoot 2" menu, it behaves as you describe... until I change the shutter speed and then the bottom seems to move again in unison with the right side as an exposure meter, and the "+1" value seems to have disappeared in the shoot2 menu. I'll have to bone up on exposure comp some more but if anyone understands what I might be experiencing, thoughts welcome!


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 16, 2016)

Good24 said:


> I'm not very experienced with exposure comp (or the Av/Tv/P modes) so I'll have to play around with it some more. It's giving me funny results e.g. when I'm in Av and set it to "+1" in the "shoot 2" menu, it behaves as you describe... until I change the shutter speed...



How are you changing the shutter speed in AV mode?


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## Good24 (Dec 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Good24 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not very experienced with exposure comp (or the Av/Tv/P modes) so I'll have to play around with it some more. It's giving me funny results e.g. when I'm in Av and set it to "+1" in the "shoot 2" menu, it behaves as you describe... until I change the shutter speed...
> ...



using the back side dial, with my thumb.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 17, 2016)

Good24 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Good24 said:
> ...



Then what you're actually doing is applying exposure compensation (-/+ EV). The point of Av mode is that you set the aperture, the camera picks the shutter speed. In Av and Tv, the main dial (by the shutter button) sets aperture or shutter speed, respectively, and the quick control (rear) dial sets EC.


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## Good24 (Dec 17, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Good24 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



ah, I see, thanks. And as you describe it of course it's all coming back to me, what I knew at one point about Av and Tv. Interesting, in that case, both the left side and bottom scales reflect the EC (moving in unison if I move the back dial), which I suppose makes sense because the point is the camera will choose proper exposure. 

In all, I think I was wrong about the notion that the bottom scale in some circumstances/settings acts like an exposure meter. (Yet I still wonder if it could be programmed to act as such.)


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## Mikehit (Dec 17, 2016)

This is how my 7D2 was set up by Canon and I have not changed it. In Av mode:
- the top dial changes shutter speed
- the back dial changes exposure compensation

When I turn the top dial the exposure meter along the bottom of the VF does not move from 0 because I have applied no compensation
When I turn the back dial I am altering the amount of exposure compensation. When I do this the aperture shown in the viewfinder changes and the meter along the bottom of the VF moves


In manual mode:
- the top dial changes the shutter speed
- the rear dial changes the aperture.
- the indicator on the right shows how far the exposure is from what the camera thinks is ideal
- the indicator at the bottom of the VF does not work in manual mode

This thread discusses it at length
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1407129

In summary, the bottom scale acts purely as a EC meter, the side scale is an actual light meter and is telling you how far off the 'ideal' setting you are. Personally I think this is a navel-gazing difference and cannot see a practical difference (though I am sure some people will use it in a way that explains why Canon have separated these functions).


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 17, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> This is how my 7D2 was set up by Canon and I have not changed it. In Av mode:
> - the top dial changes shutter speed



???


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## Valvebounce (Dec 17, 2016)

Hi Neuro. 
Why are you confused, in AV the top dial will change the shutter speed as the camera will try to keep the 'ideal' exposure by adjusting the shutter speed when one changes the aperture using the top wheel!   : ;D ;D
Ok tin hat on and nearly finished the fall out shelter! ;D

Cheers, Graham. 



neuroanatomist said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > This is how my 7D2 was set up by Canon and I have not changed it. In Av mode:
> ...


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## Don Haines (Dec 17, 2016)

Funny, I have a 7DII in my hands right now, and in Av mode, the top dial changes aperture, and in Tv mode the top dial changes shutter speed.

Mikehit, in Av mode, The aperture has priority and the camera adjusts the shutter speed to try to match the aperture for best exposure. Note that as you click the wheel left, the aperture drops down step by step to the smallest number the lens will support, and the opposite occurs when you click the wheel to the right. It may look like you are changing the shutter speed, but you are not. What you are doing is changing the aperture and the camera recalculates the shutter speed to match it. 

To prove the point, try this..... With the wheel set in one position, move the camera towards a brighter light source and see how the shutter speed becomes faster, and how it drops as you go towards a darker light source. The aperture does not change, but the camera is recalculating the shutter speed for the changes in light levels.


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## hbr (Dec 17, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> Funny, I have a 7DII in my hands right now, and in Av mode, the top dial changes aperture, and in Tv mode the top dial changes shutter speed.
> 
> Mikehit, in Av mode, The aperture has priority and the camera adjusts the shutter speed to try to match the aperture for best exposure. Note that as you click the wheel left, the aperture drops down step by step to the smallest number the lens will support, and the opposite occurs when you click the wheel to the right. It may look like you are changing the shutter speed, but you are not. What you are doing is changing the aperture and the camera recalculates the shutter speed to match it.
> 
> To prove the point, try this..... With the wheel set in one position, move the camera towards a brighter light source and see how the shutter speed becomes faster, and how it drops as you go towards a darker light source. The aperture does not change, but the camera is recalculating the shutter speed for the changes in light levels.



Hi Don,
Thought I'd learn something so I got mine out too. What you are saying is correct. But now see what happens when you half press the shutter button and turn the dials. The top dial will adjust both the shutter speed and aperture and the EC display stays in the center while the back button will adjust the shutter speed thus changing the EC setting. Neat. Pretty smart camera.


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## Mikehit (Dec 17, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> Funny, I have a 7DII in my hands right now, and in Av mode, the top dial changes aperture, and in Tv mode the top dial changes shutter speed.



You are correct - my typo


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## Don Haines (Dec 17, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Funny, I have a 7DII in my hands right now, and in Av mode, the top dial changes aperture, and in Tv mode the top dial changes shutter speed.
> ...


I made the same typo writing my response  Fortunately, I noticed it before posting....

and then HBR posted.... and I learned something new.... One of the reasons why I like this forum....


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 17, 2016)

hbr said:


> Thought I'd learn something so I got mine out too. What you are saying is correct. But now see what happens when you half press the shutter button and turn the dials. *The top dial will adjust both the shutter speed and aperture and the EC display stays in the center while the back button will adjust the shutter speed thus changing the EC setting.* Neat. Pretty smart camera.



Not exactly. 

In Av mode, the main/top dial controls aperture....only (and similarly in Tv mode it controls only the shutter speed). In Av or Tv, the quick/rear dial controls EC. Av and Tv are autoexposure modes, so for example, in Av when you change the aperture value, the camera will adjust the exposure to compensate and achieve the metered exposure. If you have selected an ISO setting other than auto, the only parameter the camera can adjust is shutter speed. But in auto ISO, as you stop down the camera will leave the ISO at 100 and lengthen the shutter speed until 1/FL (for FF, 1/1.6*FL for APS-C), then ramp up the ISO until it hits whatever the maximum setting is, then it will start using longer and longer shutter speeds. 

EC is slightly different – there, you are telling the camera to achieve an exposure offset from the meter reading. Still, again using Av as an example, with a specific ISO set the camera must change the shutter speed as you change aperture, but with Auto ISO it can vary that instead.


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## hbr (Dec 18, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> hbr said:
> 
> 
> > Thought I'd learn something so I got mine out too. What you are saying is correct. But now see what happens when you half press the shutter button and turn the dials. *The top dial will adjust both the shutter speed and aperture and the EC display stays in the center while the back button will adjust the shutter speed thus changing the EC setting.* Neat. Pretty smart camera.
> ...



Thanks Neuro,
For the past 8 years I have only used the "M" mode. I have never used the "P," "AV," or "TV" modes. Currently I have the "Highlight Tone Priority" set from my last shoot. That automatically sets the ISO to 200. What I was trying to say was that after I half pressed the shutter button in these two modes was that the EC (?) bar remained at 0 and both the aperture and shutter speed both moved when I used the top dial. That surprised me. Using the back button worked as I would have expected, only changing the shutter speed in the AV mode and the aperture in the TV mode and the EC (?) bar moved accordingly, allowing me to darken or lighten the results from what the camera had automatically selected.

Make any sense? I sometimes have trouble writing what my mind is thinking. I think that agrees with what you said in your last sentence.


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## hbr (Dec 18, 2016)

So right now I am in my study in not so great light. I have the 50 mm f/1.8 on the camera. I am in the AV mode. Using the back button I set the aperture at f/1.8. The camera selected 1/20 sec. Moving the camera slightly will automatically change the shutter speed. Half pressing the shutter release button will not change these settings. If I take this shot now I should have the proper exposure. 
But, if after half pressing the shutter release button I turn the top dial, to the right and select an aperture of, say, f/32 the shutter speed will change to keep giving me the proper exposure, let's say it changes to 1/13 sec. By turning the back button I can increase or decrease the shutter speed and the point on the EC bar will now move either up or down, (which is changing the shutter speed).

I don't know if there is any value to knowing this except that if I am using either of these modes, I can compensate for an overly bright or dark picture.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 18, 2016)

hbr said:


> For the past 8 years I have only used the "M" mode. I have never used the "P," "AV," or "TV" modes. Currently I have the "Highlight Tone Priority" set from my last shoot. That automatically sets the ISO to 200.



HTP limits the lowest available ISO to 200, but doesn't automatically set it there. You can change the ISO to higher values with HTP. ISO 100 isn't available because the camera is actually exposing at a 1-stop lower ISO than it's set to (e.g. if you set ISO 800, it exposes at 400), then it applied a tone curve to push everything but the highlights up a stop).




hbr said:


> What I was trying to say was that after I half pressed the shutter button in these two modes was that the EC (?) bar remained at 0 and both the aperture and shutter speed both moved when I used the top dial. That surprised me.



That's the whole point of Av – you pick the aperture and let the camera worry about the rest to give you a metered exposure. As I said, in Auto ISO, that may change and not the shutter speed. 




hbr said:


> Using the back button worked as I would have expected, only changing the shutter speed in the AV mode and the aperture in the TV mode and the EC (?) bar moved accordingly, allowing me to darken or lighten the results from what the camera had automatically selected.



Exactly how EC works. But as above, depending on settings shutter speed may not change.


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## weixing (Dec 18, 2016)

Hi,
Summary:
*P Mode* 
Main Dial (Top Dial) let you change a different set of Shutter Speed and Aperture values.
Aperture and Shutter Speed will change accordingly. ISO might also change if in Auto ISO mode.
When adjust EC using Quick Control Dial (Rear Dial), Aperture or Shutter Speed will change accordingly. ISO might also change if in Auto ISO mode.

*Av Mode* 
Main Dial (Top Dial) let you set desired Aperture.
Shutter Speed or ISO (if in Auto ISO) will change accordingly.
When adjust EC using Quick Control Dial (Rear Dial), Shutter Speed or ISO (if in Auto ISO) will change accordingly. 

* Tv Mode *
Main Dial (Top Dial) let you set desired Shutter Speed.
Aperture or ISO (if in Auto ISO) will change accordingly.
When adjust EC using Quick Control Dial (Rear Dial), Aperture or ISO (if in Auto ISO) will change accordingly.

*M Mode* 
Main Dial (Top Dial) let you set desired Shutter Speed.
Quick Control Dial (Rear Dial) let you set desired Aperture.
ISO (if in Auto ISO) will change accordingly.
When adjust EC (only available in Auto ISO), ISO will change accordingly.

Have a nice day.


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