# How to Expose and get sharp Focus of Moon



## fotoray (Jan 7, 2015)

I am taking the first shots with my new 100-400 II and decided to try it out on last night's full moon (1/6/2015). 

I used my 7D +100-400 II mounted on a sturdy tripod. I shot against the dark sky at 400mm to get maximum image size (FF equivalent 640 mm). 

Since moonlight is reflected sunlight, a typical daytime exposure ought to work fine. I shot in manual mode using 1/100 sec at f/11 and ISO 200. This exposure seemed OK, but maybe not optimum?

My trouble was in getting the focus right to get images with the sharpest possible detail.

I used manual focus in live view magnified 10x. I took each shot using the camera 10-sec self-timer and cable release to minimize camera shake. 

I was disappointed in the lack of detail of my images. But maybe I had unrealistic expectations and have done about as good as can be expected within the limitations of my equipment - definitely no telescope available.  

Still the attached uncropped image shows craters at 10 o'clock that I definitely cannot see from the ground!! So this is an improvement over my own eyesight!!

I'm looking for feedback from others who have taken shots of the moon using equipment similar to mine. Did you get better images than my attached sample. If so, what were your procedures?

Any feedback welcome and appreciated.

Thanks!


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## mackguyver (Jan 7, 2015)

I'll leave a proper response to jrista and the other astro-experts here, but did you turn IS off? That will ruin a shot. Also, I'm not sure where you live, but here in Florida, the humidity, even in winter, is a sharpness killer. Atmospherics like humidity, pollution, and other air quality issues really affect astro shots in particular.


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## fotoray (Jan 7, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> I'll leave a proper response to jrista and the other astro-experts here, but did you turn IS off? That will ruin a shot. Also, I'm not sure where you live, but here in Florida, the humidity, even in winter, is a sharpness killer. Atmospherics like humidity, pollution, and other air quality issues really affect astro shots in particular.



Good input! I did NOT turn IS off, even though I know better.  I'll try again tonight with what remains of the full moon.

Also, I live in LA, so air pollution is definitely a factor, something we can do nothing about, except take these types of pictures in clear air regions, if we can find them. 

Thanks!


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## overniven (Jan 7, 2015)

I believe there is also a mirror lockup function that can help.


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## KeithBreazeal (Jan 7, 2015)

Here's a shot with a 7D & 100-400 + a 1.4x
exposure 1/160th, f8, ISO 100
I use a robust tripod, remote release, and live view. My technique is to turn on the IS for easier focusing, then turn it off. Lock the lens to 400 to prevent zoom creep. I keep the Live View in 10x and watch for all the vibration to stop- this can take several seconds. Obviously, I cropped the photo quite a bit.



Moon 21 July 2013 © Keith breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr

Here's one with a 5D III with a Celestron C-5. I used the exact same technique to shoot this one. The major difference is that I didn't need to do a massive crop.



Moon / Celestron C-5 Telescope / Canon 5D Mark III © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr


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## wtlloyd (Jan 7, 2015)

That's a sweet shot with the Celestron. Very nice.


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## fotoray (Jan 7, 2015)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Here's a shot with a 7D & 100-400 + a 1.4x
> exposure 1/160th, f8, ISO 100
> I use a robust tripod, remote release, and live view. My technique is to turn on the IS for easier focusing, then turn it off. Lock the lens to 400 to prevent zoom creep. I keep the Live View in 10x and watch for all the vibration to stop- this can take several seconds. Obviously, I cropped the photo quite a bit.
> 
> ...



What are the pixel dimensions and file format of your cropped image (Moon 21 July 2013)?


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## KeithBreazeal (Jan 7, 2015)

fotoray said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a shot with a 7D & 100-400 + a 1.4x
> ...



If I want to take the time, I'll import the raw file to Lightroom and make a few exposure adjusts. I save it as a tiff. I'll crop and re-size the tiff to 5000 at 300 dpi. I make any sharpening adjustments now. Jpeg is saved at 5000 and 300dpi and loaded to Flicker.


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## Famateur (Jan 7, 2015)

fotoray said:


> Good input! I did NOT turn IS off, even though I know better.  I'll try again tonight with what remains of the full moon.
> 
> Thanks!



I'm not an astro-shooter, either, but not having a full moon might actually help your quest for sharpness and detail. You won't get a perfectly round moon, but you'll get shadows on the craters near the waning edge that will increase the contrast of the details. Just a thought...


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## epsiloneri (Jan 7, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> I'll leave a proper response to jrista and the other astro-experts here, but did you turn IS off? That will ruin a shot.


No, IS will ruin shots with long exposures (more than one second), but not for short exposures like this.



fotoray said:


> Since moonlight is reflected sunlight, a typical daytime exposure ought to work fine. I shot in manual mode using 1/100 sec at f/11 and ISO 200.


Good argument regarding daylight settings! Though you should get better results by opening up the aperture and using shorter exposures and base ISO. Focal depth is really not an issue, vibrations much more so (though perhaps not in your case, using IS). F/11 actually gives less sharp images than f/8, due to refraction. I don't know what the optimal opening for the 7D is, but I'm guessing somewhere between f/5.6 and f/8.

I find focusing on the moon using live view comparatively easy. Just try to find as close an optimum focus as you can, and don't forget to switch off AF.

A good thing to know is that the moon shows less detail the closer to full moon you are. Half moon is optimal, and that is because the shadows cast by structures on the moon at the terminator are at their longest and most easily visible. Look at KeithBreazeal's great moon shots above, they also shows most of their detail close to the terminator (the border between day and night). I see Famateur made the same observation.


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## Mr Bean (Jan 7, 2015)

Famateur said:


> fotoray said:
> 
> 
> > Good input! I did NOT turn IS off, even though I know better.  I'll try again tonight with what remains of the full moon.
> ...


Yes, a good suggestion, this gives better detail of the craters, as they cast a shadow.

I've used the 300mm f4 + 1.4x TC on a 5D3 for moon shots. I simply use autofocus, as it's big enough to obtain focus + mirror lockup.


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## Famateur (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks for the confirmations of my supposition. It helps me, too.


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## KeithBreazeal (Jan 7, 2015)

Try to have something in the foreground to accent the size and perspective. Sometimes you can get a good enough moon rise(low atmospheric distortions from wind and heat shimmer) that will allow for a major crop. This is something I did a while back and required a lot of work to bring out the snow. Note uncropped frame at the upper left. A day before or after the actual full moon is the best for getting some detail(some shadows) when trying for the full moon look. A true full moon by itself in the sky makes it look like a low contrast Black & White pizza in a dark room.



Super Moon editing before &amp; after © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr


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## Northstar (Jan 8, 2015)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Try to have something in the foreground to accent the size and perspective. Sometimes you can get a good enough moon rise(low atmospheric distortions from wind and heat shimmer) that will allow for a major crop. This is something I did a while back and required a lot of work to bring out the snow. Note uncropped frame at the upper left. A day before or after the actual full moon is the best for getting some detail(some shadows) when trying for the full moon look. A true full moon by itself in the sky makes it look like a low contrast Black & White pizza in a dark room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## fotoray (Jan 8, 2015)

I shot again last night while applying some of the suggestions provided here. Results were greatly improved, with much better focus and sharpness with IS turned off. There was some blurring during focus from the atmosphere, so clearer air may have helped improve this result.

Using 7D +100-400 II at 400mm and manual exposure my settings were 1/100 sec, f/8, ISO 100. Used liveview at 10x and manual focus with cable release and 2-sec timer. Liveview automatically locks up the mirror, so it is eliminated as a source of vibration. 

The attached image has been cropped to 1024 x 1024 at 300 dpi. The result isn't as exciting as Keith's, but much better than what I got the previous night. 

More practice will improve my results further. Now I at least have a good procedure to start with.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful suggestions! Any comments or suggestions?


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## KeithBreazeal (Jan 8, 2015)

Northstar said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > Try to have something in the foreground to accent the size and perspective. Sometimes you can get a good enough moon rise(low atmospheric distortions from wind and heat shimmer) that will allow for a major crop. This is something I did a while back and required a lot of work to bring out the snow. Note uncropped frame at the upper left. A day before or after the actual full moon is the best for getting some detail(some shadows) when trying for the full moon look. A true full moon by itself in the sky makes it look like a low contrast Black & White pizza in a dark room.
> ...


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 8, 2015)

MAny good tips here which I think you have tried and found great results. After you master good focus and reduced image shake, you can also use your camera histogram to help as well. Expose the image so that the moon is on the right side of the histogram. 4th or 5th division but not all the way to the edge. In live view it will look overexposed but that's ok. You can pull it down in Photoshop, DPP or other image editing tool.

There are a couple of reasons for doing this. The first is that pulling down the exposure will greatly assist in reducing noise. Even at ISO 100 there is noise and this allows you to reduce it even further. It's a good method to use even taking other normal photographs. It Allows you to apply more sharpness to compensate for atmospheric loss. The other reason is a DSLR records more shades of grey or color at the bright end of the histogram. Lots of math goes into explaining that but you can use that to your favor to record the subtle variations in surface brightness better.

Also as you found out ISO 100 is generally the best when you are trying to record highlight detail. Higher ISO is used to record better shadow detail. The higher the ISO used the less highlight detail your camera will record. For the moon use ISO 100 as its all highlight.


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## epsiloneri (Jan 8, 2015)

Congratulations, it looks like a real improvement!



fotoray said:


> There was some blurring during focus from the atmosphere, so clearer air may have helped improve this result.


If you are aiming for as much detail as possible of the moon (without foreground objects), it is generally best to shoot when the moon is as high as possible in the sky, since that reduces the air column towards it, and hence "seeing" (blurring) effects from the atmosphere. Also, avoid setting your equipment up close to a heat source (like an open window, line of sight closely over roof/chimney or warm car) as the heat generates blurring air turbulence.



> Using 7D +100-400 II at 400mm and manual exposure my settings were 1/100 sec, f/8, ISO 100. Used liveview at 10x and manual focus with cable release and 2-sec timer.


If you haven't already, you can gain some experience by varying your settings, taking a series of images for each setting. For instance, try using the lens wide open and go down in exposure time, try with IS on/off, and so on. The degree of image blurring due to atmosphere can be episodic, so try during different times of the night.


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## AlanF (Jan 8, 2015)

There are now several posts that you get sharper images on the old 100-400 and now the new 100-400 II with IS turned off. Is that true for just these lenses or for all lenses? Why does IS cause problems? Does using a tripod cause the problems (I thought the newer lenses detected they were on a tripod)?


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## Northstar (Jan 8, 2015)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > KeithBreazeal said:
> ...


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## epsiloneri (Jan 8, 2015)

AlanF said:


> There are now several posts that you get sharper images on the old 100-400 and now the new 100-400 II with IS turned off. Is that true for just these lenses or for all lenses? Why does IS cause problems? Does using a tripod cause the problems (I thought the newer lenses detected they were on a tripod)?


I don't think IS causes problems in this situation, since the exposures are so short. On the contrary, I think IS could even be helpful, to reduce residual vibrations from shutter/mirror. Probably not much with a good tripod, but at least not hurtful. For longer exposures (>1 sec), the matters are different, since the IS image tends to drift around on those timescales. In astrophotography, these longer exposuse times are commonly used, which is why I think many associate astrophotography with _no IS_, but as I said, it does not strictly valid for shorter exposures.


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## zim (Jan 8, 2015)

fotoray is your moon rotated 90deg?


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## Steve Balcombe (Jan 8, 2015)

epsiloneri said:


> If you are aiming for as much detail as possible of the moon (without foreground objects), it is generally best to shoot when the moon is as high as possible in the sky, since that reduces the air column towards it, and hence "seeing" (blurring) effects from the atmosphere.



I agree this can make a huge difference. It's not necessarily blurring, you can get the same rippling effect as atmospherics in summer landscapes. The night-time moon is highest in winter so this is a good time of year (in the northern hemisphere) to practise your moon shots. Also because the nights are longer the sky is dark at a more civilised hour! Two or three days after "first quarter" ("waxing gibbous") is particularly convenient as you get nice detail and it is high in the sky in the mid-late evening. I think all my good moon shots are waxing gibbous taken in the winter!

The next first quarter is Jan 27, and three days later the moon is at its highest (56.1deg) at 8.59 pm in London - a few minutes later here in Taunton. A couple of days either side of that should give great results if the weather is suitable.

Numbers taken from here: https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/uk/london


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## fotoray (Jan 8, 2015)

zim said:


> fotoray is your moon rotated 90deg?



No. My image is not rotated 90 deg. It is posted exactly as shot. If my image is compared with Keith's, there is an apparent 90 deg difference caused by a complexity of changing geometries depending on when and where the image was taken. 

While the moon generally shows us the same face all the time due to tidal locking, what we see does differ somewhat. Compare the surface features of two nice images posted by Keith Breazeal and you can see they appear rotated with respect to each other. 

You will see a 90 deg rotation of surface features between moonrise and moonset of the same full moon.


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## KeithBreazeal (Jan 8, 2015)

fotoray said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > fotoray is your moon rotated 90deg?
> ...



Yup, it's all over the place. Sometimes you'll see a telescope shot upside down. LOL



Moon 20 Feb 2011 web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr



Moon 14 Jan 2011 300mmf2,8 1,4 extender © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr


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## aZhu (Jan 8, 2015)

Also to keep in mind is that shooting a full moon will give you less detail in terms of contrast because the sun isn't raking across the surface creating dynamic shadows from the texture and craters.

This was shot almost 2 weeks ago on Dec. 28, 2014 on the new Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II handheld in Los Angeles.


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## KeithBreazeal (Jan 8, 2015)

Also, check around on sites for photo bombing opportunities.(conjuctions) I saw Jupiter was going to make a close pass with the moon. Sometimes exposures are too far apart to get both perfect, but this time it was OK. Jupiters moons are visible, but only by blowing out the planet. Once in a great while the ISS will pass close enough to the moon to get both.



Moon Jupiter Conjuction 7D 300mm 1.4x extender 2500 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr


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## fotoray (Jan 8, 2015)

aZhu said:


> Also to keep in mind is that shooting a full moon will give you less detail in terms of contrast because the sun isn't raking across the surface creating dynamic shadows from the texture and craters.
> 
> This was shot almost 2 weeks ago on Dec. 28, 2014 on the new Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II handheld in Los Angeles.



Did you intend to upload an image?


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## aZhu (Jan 8, 2015)

fotoray said:


> aZhu said:
> 
> 
> > Also to keep in mind is that shooting a full moon will give you less detail in terms of contrast because the sun isn't raking across the surface creating dynamic shadows from the texture and craters.
> ...



Is there no image showing? I see it fine on my screen...

But just in case there isn't, follow the link below 
http://www.andyzhu.com/forums/first_quarter_moon.jpg


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