# Report: The next EOS R camera is reported to be undergoing field testing [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 10, 2019)

> A new report on the series of tubes says that the next EOS R system camera has begun field testing with select Canon photographers. The same report also mentions what we’ve been mentioning for a long while now, that the next EOS R camera will be the high-resolution model with more professional features and somewhat a replacement for the EOS 5DS line of cameras.
> Here’s a summary of what we’ve previously heard about high-resolution EOS R camera:
> 
> A big bump in resolution over the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R to 70+ mp. However, there could also be multiple sensor configurations being used for testing.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## csibra (Apr 10, 2019)

Good... good...
This will not be my next canon either


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## takesome1 (Apr 10, 2019)

Good... good...

It will be my next canon


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## -pekr- (Apr 10, 2019)

Most probably it is just another camera to buy Canon a bit more of a time to come with some real sensor technology changes. First, 5DIV like sensor, second, 6DII like sensor, next - high res sensor. Would be suprprised, if it would be all new generation of sensors accompained with IBIS, etc.


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## unfocused (Apr 10, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Most probably it is just another camera to buy Canon a bit more of a time to come with some real sensor technology changes.. .



We may be near the point where significant sensor technology changes are unlikely.


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## Quarkcharmed (Apr 10, 2019)

If it's all true, it'll likely be my next Canon unless this sensor has DR worse than 5DIV. With 75mp sensor, it'd be a killer feature if there's a lower-res and higher-DR low light mode. Say a 16mp mode.


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## Quarkcharmed (Apr 10, 2019)

unfocused said:


> We may be near the point where significant sensor technology changes are unlikely.



75mp sensor will be absolutely new anyway. Even if it's 50mp like 5DSr, it'll still be a new one because of DPAF


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 10, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Most probably it is just another camera to buy Canon a bit more of a time to come with some real sensor technology changes.


Canon dominates the ILC market, and has for 16 years and counting. They've had ~50% market share for the past decade, and have that today. Please remind us all why they need to deliver 'some real sensor technology changes'. Note: "_Because I wants it, Precious_," is not a reason.


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## transpo1 (Apr 10, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon dominates the ILC market, and has for 16 years and counting. They've had ~50% market share for the past decade, and have that today. Please remind us all why they need to deliver 'some real sensor technology changes'. Note: "_Because I wants it, Precious_," is not a reason.



To stay competitive and remain first in class with imaging technology. Remember, their tagline is "See Impossible." That slogan doesn't work if they don't advance their tech.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 10, 2019)

unfocused said:


> We may be near the point where significant sensor technology changes are unlikely.



It is getting more difficult and expensive to gain a tiny improvement. There are other technologies in development, but who knows if or when they will become practical. Layered sensors can reduce noise and decrease read times, but are difficult to build, and the cost jumps up.

Canon calculates to produce the best tech that meets a target cost. That is why no one picks a price war with them, they can produce cameras with a very profitable margin. I do think that the RP is a exception, they have less profit and are trying to buy market share. Sales of lenses and accessories may make up for the tighter margin on the body.


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## memoriaphoto (Apr 10, 2019)

This one is going to be expeeeeensive!


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 10, 2019)

transpo1 said:


> To stay competitive and remain first in class with imaging technology. Remember, their tagline is "See Impossible." That slogan doesn't work if they don't advance their tech.


The market data have shown they don't need 'better' sensors as defined by DxOMark and certain forum dwellers aka DRones. Which manufacturer has the highest megapixel count in a 'mainstream' ILC (i.e. not MF sensors)? Which manufacturers offer DPAF? Oh, wait...by 'advancing their tech', you mean '_advancing it in the way that *I personally* think they should do_.' Hubris?


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## AlanF (Apr 10, 2019)

It would be fantastic if it could be switched between a 75mpx FF and 30mpx crop in true RAW, especially if there were higher fps in crop mode. Then, I could use the in-camera crop mode when I would normally have to crop in FF and have RAW files 60% small than FF. I'd preorder.


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## transpo1 (Apr 10, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> The market data have shown they don't need 'better' sensors as defined by DxOMark and certain forum dwellers aka DRones. Which manufacturer has the highest megapixel count in a 'mainstream' ILC (i.e. not MF sensors)? Which manufacturers offer DPAF? Oh, wait...by 'advancing their tech', you mean '_advancing it in the way that *I personally* think they should do_.' Hubris?



I meant advancing it so they can manage to get FF 4K video and higher frame rates out of it- something some of their competitors have managed to do. Call me crazy, but selling people on hobbled 4K in their cameras just doesn't seem like a long-term strategy for a company with the tagline "See Impossible." 

By the way, DxOMark is run by people, DRones is a person, and even you, I'm assuming, are a person- so we are all just *personally* expressing our views here. So, yes, me _*personally*_ and all the other folks who want better FF video performance from Canon- of which there are considerable number.


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## melgross (Apr 10, 2019)

Id like to see something a bit lower, perhaps in the mid to high 50’s. But pixel quality would have to be boosted. They can do that. Their current 51MP sensor is better than the much lower Rez one from the 5Dmk III, but worse than the lower Rez version from the 5Dmk IV, which was newer. That’s now fairly old. With no breakthroughs, I could see that 5Dmk IV pixel quality, or a bit more, in a high 50’s MP sensor.

Other than for the thrill of it, do we really need to go to 70 now? I don’t think so.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 10, 2019)

transpo1 said:


> I meant advancing it so they can manage to get FF 4K video and higher frame rates out of it- something some of their competitors have managed to do. Call me crazy, but selling people on hobbled 4K in their cameras just doesn't seem like a long-term strategy for a company with the tagline "See Impossible."
> 
> By the way, DxOMark is run by people, DRones is a person, and even you, I'm assuming, are a person- so we are all just *personally* expressing our views here. So, yes, me _*personally*_ and all the other folks who want better FF video performance from Canon- of which there are considerable number.


Thanks for confirming my statement that you define advancement based solely on your personal wants. 

Opinion ≠ data. Data = data. People who believe their opinions represent facts deserve to be called crazy.

If the folks who have clamored for more DR or better FF video performance have eschewed Canon, and if those groups comprised a 'considerable number' of people, Canon's market share would have suffered. It hasn't. So either all the DRones and discerning FF ILC videographers are just spouting off here but buying Canon cameras anyway...or what you believe to be a 'considerable number' is, in reality, irrelevant. My money is firmly on the latter. But you go right on inflating the importance of your own opinion...reality hasn't changed it so far.


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## AlanF (Apr 10, 2019)

mrav said:


> I think the majority would agree with you, many would like a 5DIV equiv. All the things the 5D has (that the EOS R is missing) and all the new stuff the EOS R brought (EVF, edge to edge auto focus etc). If they had done that and a small bump in MP, that would have been an amazing all around pro camera. But they obviously don't want any overlap to kill the sales on existing dslr cameras which is a super frustrating strategy for existing Canon users.


Precisely what 5D things do you want?


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## dtaylor (Apr 10, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Most probably it is just another camera to buy Canon a bit more of a time to come with some real sensor technology changes. First, 5DIV like sensor, second, 6DII like sensor, next - high res sensor. Would be suprprised, if it would be all new generation of sensors accompained with IBIS, etc.



I was going to make a "Canon sensor old" post as a joke, given that a 75mp DPAF sensor would clearly be new, only to find that someone else beat me to it with a serious post of this ignorant meme.

You know...I'm done arguing the facts. I'm just going to start resorting to rhetoric...

*When is Sony going to stop reusing their old 24mp and 42mp sensors and give us something new? This is why Canon dominates sales! I want a serious stills camera, not a hobbyist video camera with broken 100 Mbps 4k. Canon is going to put their DPAF technology in this camera and if it has DP RAWs I can get an extra stop of highlight detail for a film like look while Sony user's blow their highlights all over the place. That's it: if Canon gives us a new mirrorless sensor while Sony keeps giving us their old sensors I'm switching to Canon.*

You know, this might be fun.


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## wockawocka (Apr 10, 2019)

Let me guess, dual cards but no joystick.

_Fires party popper_


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## dtaylor (Apr 10, 2019)

=


mrav said:


> I doubt Canon has figured a way to make a 70+MP with DPAF and 1D X performance so what professional is this for?



Landscape, architecture, fashion, product photography.



> Ok sure they finally put the dual card slots but do wedding photogs want 70MP shots (let alone low light performance)?



Low light will be as good as anything else out there. The lower resolution = better low light performance is a myth for stills (though not for video). At 70mp this thing would probably have a 35-40mp MRAW mode so a wedding photographer could shoot 70mp still and posed shots and 35mp for everything else to manage file sizes.



> Wildlife shooters would like that res for cropping but if it's no better performance than the EOS R then that's a bust.



A good friend of mine specializes in wildlife photography and has great work. He's never much cared for fps and once told me 4-5 fps is all you really need. I'm not going to completely discount higher frame rates for wildlife and sports, but I also can't find any issue with his work, so....


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## Pape (Apr 10, 2019)

I dont like shoot blind after couple shoot i wait viewfinder lag ends and recompose pic . They need get lag away before can increase fps


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## unfocused (Apr 10, 2019)

melgross said:


> ...Other than for the thrill of it, do we really need to go to 70 now? I don’t think so.



Keep in mind that the now 3+ years old 80D sensor already scales out to almost 62 mp. Not arguing the need, just pointing out that 70mp is not that much of a leap.


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## dtaylor (Apr 10, 2019)

mrav said:


> The big one is continuous auto focus speed, the EOS R is slower. Also, the intervalometer.



I'll give you that. For this 70mp beast to be good for wildlife they will probably have to improve DPAF continuous AF performance.

Mirrorless is clearly better when it comes to subject recognition tracking, but having had my hands on an A9 (a friend has one) my preliminary judgement is that DSLR off-mirror PDAF still dominates for AF tracking speed if you can keep an AF point on the target.


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## Maximilian (Apr 10, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> ...
> Opinion ≠ data. Data = data. People who believe their opinions represent facts deserve to be called crazy.
> ...


Recently somebody called that "alternative facts". But only a few were brave enough to call that one "crazy"


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## dtaylor (Apr 10, 2019)

mrav said:


> Yes skill is better than specs but the EOS R is 3fps in continuous at best. There is a reason why the 1d x isn't a 50MP camera.



The R is limited by DPAF processing, not MP. The 5Ds does 5 fps with tracking and the 5D IV does 7.


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## takesome1 (Apr 10, 2019)

AlanF said:


> It would be fantastic if it could be switched between a 75mpx FF and 30mpx crop in true RAW, especially* if there were higher fps in crop mode.* Then, I could use the in-camera crop mode when I would normally have to crop in FF and have RAW files 60% small than FF. I'd preorder.



I had this fantasy when the 5Ds R was released. If we do not hope we will not be disappointed.


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## takesome1 (Apr 10, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Opinion ≠ data. Data = data. People who believe their opinions represent facts deserve to be called crazy.



If what you say is true, is Washington DC a Mental Asylum?


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## Ozarker (Apr 10, 2019)

mrav said:


> I think the majority would agree with you, many would like a 5DIV equiv. All the things the 5D has (that the EOS R is missing) and all the new stuff the EOS R brought (EVF, edge to edge auto focus etc). If they had done that and a small bump in MP, that would have been an amazing all around pro camera. But they obviously don't want any overlap to kill the sales on existing dslr cameras which is a super frustrating strategy for existing Canon users.


Might frustrate you. I am content. I'm an existing Canon user who'll be deciding on a new body in the next year or two. I shoot portraits and fashion. I can see how a high MP camera would help me in a big way. It isn't just for wildlife folks.


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## Ozarker (Apr 10, 2019)

takesome1 said:


> If what you say is true, is Washington DC a Mental Asylum?


Absolutely! What other reason could there be for spending $1.257 trillion a year more than what is coming in?


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## rrcphoto (Apr 10, 2019)

mrav said:


> I doubt Canon has figured a way to make a 70+MP with DPAF and 1D X performance so what professional is this for? Ok sure they finally put the dual card slots but do wedding photogs want 70MP shots (let alone low light performance)? Wildlife shooters would like that res for cropping but if it's no better performance than the EOS R then that's a bust. The performance on this camera will determine everything I think but I doubt Canon has found a way to go from 30-70MP and increase the performance (speed, low light etc) so quickly to top what's in the EOS R already. So unless they did find a way to boost performance, while keeping image IQ, then the only people who would like this camera are people who want all those pixels but I think that is a minority of photographers.


you pigeon holed it into every category except the ones in which the camera would be tailored for. Think studio, fashion, landscape.


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## ColinJR (Apr 10, 2019)

At 70mp, I would hope for a binned 35mp mode that provided better noise (and low light?) performance. Still plenty of resolution for most scenarios. But yeah, as an owner of an EOS R, I'm really hoping for a few things in a camera like this—the return of 5D/7D ergonomics (a few more CF buttons and a joystick), dual card slots, and better rendering. 

On the last point, it's hard to describe, but the R's files have a tendency to look "crunchy" and not all that pleasing right out of camera. It seems like I have to massage them a lot more in post to get good results. This is compared to my original 7D and my Fujifilm X-E3. I don't know if it's just the way the camera processes the files or if it's a sensor thing or what, but the color and contrast seem off—not enough color saturation, too much contrast. I end up trying different camera profiles in LR and can usually get good results, but the files are always a bit 'meh' out of camera. Anyone else?


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## 6degrees (Apr 10, 2019)

Body which is better than or on par with a7riii, with IBIS, eye-auto-focus, etc.
RF 85mm F1.2, with RF native design and similar IQ as RF 50mm F1.2. Otherwise will take the later one.
RF 16-21 F1.4 as rumored.
My dream team.


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## AlanF (Apr 10, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Might frustrate you. I am content. I'm an existing Canon user who'll be deciding on a new body in the next year or two. I shoot portraits and fashion. I can see how a high MP camera would help me in a big way. It isn't just for wildlife folks.


The more who want it the better!


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## AlanF (Apr 10, 2019)

mrav said:


> yes and the new camera will have DPAF. Additionally you do need more processing power to handle the extra pixels. The 5dIV wouldn't be doing 7fps if it was 70MP. The new processors can handle more but I'd be surprised if they can bump this 70MP beast up from the 3fps the R gets.


It will depend to a large extent on how many of the dual pixels they use for AF.


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## QuisUtDeus (Apr 10, 2019)

AlanF said:


> Precisely what 5D things do you want?



I ain't him, but I'd like a joystick, dual slots (ideally, though it's not as big a deal to me as some), in-body charging, tilty-flippy, DPAF, wifi, and shorter EVF freeze. And 30mpx is fine. It's more than fine. I don't even list the resolution of my 5D3 as an issue, and I don't want to deal with those file sizes. I'd rather have a higher framerate.

If this is the "5RS" I hope there's a plain "5R" coming as well at some point.


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## dtaylor (Apr 10, 2019)

ColinJR said:


> On the last point, it's hard to describe, but the R's files have a tendency to look "crunchy" and not all that pleasing right out of camera. It seems like I have to massage them a lot more in post to get good results. This is compared to my original 7D and my Fujifilm X-E3. I don't know if it's just the way the camera processes the files or if it's a sensor thing or what, but the color and contrast seem off—not enough color saturation, too much contrast. I end up trying different camera profiles in LR and can usually get good results, but the files are always a bit 'meh' out of camera. Anyone else?



I don't know if this is relevant but I hated Adobe's profiles for the 5Ds and got the Huelight profiles which I love. Crushed shadow tonality was one problem with the Adobe profiles. I knew this before I bought the 5Ds from test files I had processed.

My first question would be if you have the same experience using DPP? I want to use ACR for the features and detail recovery but had to get away from the included profiles.


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## crazyrunner33 (Apr 10, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> If it's all true, it'll likely be my next Canon unless this sensor has DR worse than 5DIV. With 75mp sensor, it'd be a killer feature if there's a lower-res and higher-DR low light mode. Say a 16mp mode.



That would likely be the case, the new IMX555CQR from Sony Semiconductor is around 100 megapixel, but it appears to have a mode of around 24 megapixels that'll have a better SNR than the AS7 II. I'm excited for high megapixel cameras(even as someone who shoots mostly video), the result will be better color data. And for video, those high megapixel cameras will be capable of true 4:4:4 4K video.


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## [email protected] (Apr 10, 2019)

transpo1 said:


> To stay competitive and remain first in class with imaging technology. Remember, their tagline is "See Impossible." That slogan doesn't work if they don't advance their tech.



I always thought that tagline was a typical sort of mistake made by a Japanese conglomerate. Worked for a couple in my time. Once branding agencies get in their heads, odd things happen. You can read that as "See? Impossible!" Because it doesn't have punctuation in the real tagline, it invites different readings from different people. Similar to the North Carolina license plate tagline "first in flight." As a kid I always thought that referred to a retreat in the Civil War, which definitely is not what they meant.

Perhaps we can come up with some better taglines for Canon. On second thought, maybe the forum wouldn't be such a good place for that. "Canon has 56 percent share, so buzz off" has a certain ring of truth, but it wouldn't test well.


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## cellomaster27 (Apr 10, 2019)

I guess this is the next camera for me. Dual card slots (hopefully and better be UHS-2, better if both the same, no CF plz!) and joystick (im old school - M5 touch and drag focus is alright but faster with joystick), and I wouldn't bash the increase in MP. I'll find a way to work around it if need be. DPAF IBIS and 4K is all an upgrade for me so I ain't complaining! I did so 4K on my mark 3 with magic lantern before.. I think it was like 10 fps but the quality is quite amazing.  I am definitely ready to hit the preorders if these are in fact the specs. Canon, you're allowed to wow me like you did with my mark 3.


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## peters (Apr 10, 2019)

I am SO excited for this! 
Even more for the 1DX III!!!
All I want is a more efficient Codec and I am sold. The 1DX II is pretty much perfect, except for this insane inefficient codec.
A higher resolution, less loud shutter and maybe 4k without the 1,3 crop and I would be totaly in love =) 

A high resolution EOS R sounds very realistic - I think the new RF Lenses are incredible and easily build for a 70mp body.


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## Don Haines (Apr 10, 2019)

50 megapixels or 75 megapixels isn’t much of a difference. I expect the big change in this camera will be computing power, look for dual (or quad) digic9 to handle the processing load.


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## stochasticmotions (Apr 10, 2019)

Can't wait for this, really hoping that it will be able to handle 5fps and track as well as the A7RIII. About time to replace the 5ds


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## QuisUtDeus (Apr 10, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Perhaps we can come up with some better taglines for Canon. On second thought, maybe the forum wouldn't be such a good place for that. "Canon has 56 percent share, so buzz off" has a certain ring of truth, but it wouldn't test well.



"Canon: Blame your skills, not your tools."


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## epiieq1 (Apr 10, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> I'll give you that. For this 70mp beast to be good for wildlife they will probably have to improve DPAF continuous AF performance.
> 
> Mirrorless is clearly better when it comes to subject recognition tracking, but having had my hands on an A9 (a friend has one) my preliminary judgement is that DSLR off-mirror PDAF still dominates for AF tracking speed if you can keep an AF point on the target.



I know what you're trying to say about the A9, but what was interesting to me about it is this. I rented one for a week. I actually shot photos at a couple of junior high volleyball games. Being able to pick a small region and have it prioritize face/eye tracking in that region upped my "keeper/possible" percentage tremendously. Granted, I had "Sony Claw" after the games due to the ergonomics, but the files seemed to process fairly well for high ISO.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 11, 2019)

peters said:


> I am SO excited for this!
> Even more for the 1DX III!!!
> All I want is a more efficient Codec and I am sold. The 1DX II is pretty much perfect, except for this insane inefficient codec.
> A higher resolution, less loud shutter and maybe 4k without the 1,3 crop and I would be totaly in love =)



seriously. this isn't going to happen. this isn't a video camera.

why do people want to demand high end video features into a camera that is clearly 200% geared to stills?
Canon will most likely do a all rounder camera with good video and medium resolution stills, heck, they even basically stated they will in interviews. this isn't it.

if this camera comes out in the fall it will:

not have IBIS.
won't have high end Video and if it has 4K video it will be a horrendous crop factor
it will be slow as snails unless there's dual DIGIC 8's in it. and if it has dual DIGIC 8's . the battery life will be pathetic. worse than the EOS R if it uses an LP-E6
It's nice to dream and then there's what Canon has shown us, Canon needs a fair amount of time and money to up their game with sensor and DIGIC hardware (and it's too early for DIGIC 9) to have this already in the pipeline and coming out in the fall. It doesn't matter if Sony, Nikon or whoever else can do it, Canon cannot. Not right now.


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## peters (Apr 11, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> seriously. this isn't going to happen. this isn't a video camera.
> 
> why do people want to demand high end video features into a camera that is clearly 200% geared to stills?
> Canon will most likely do a all rounder camera with good video and medium resolution stills, heck, they even basically stated they will in interviews. this isn't it.
> ...


??? 
Are you talking about the EOS R II or the 1DX III? 
The 1DX II is a tremendous video camera. There is pretty much only one problem with it, and that is the MJPEG codec (and maybe the missing 4k on hdmi out).
There is a 99% certainty that they will include another codec for 4k. there is simply no reason not to do it. And the reason they got not 4k hdmi out on the 1DX II was probably because the HDMI 2.0 specification where too late. 2020 there is NO reason not to include it.

If you talk about the EOS R II - you are probably correct.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 11, 2019)

peters said:


> ???
> Are you talking about the EOS R II or the 1DX III?
> The 1DX II is a tremendous video camera. There is pretty much only one problem with it, and that is the MJPEG codec (and maybe the missing 4k on hdmi out).
> There is a 99% certainty that they will include another codec for 4k. there is simply no reason not to do it. And the reason they got not 4k hdmi out on the 1DX II was probably because the HDMI 2.0 specification where too late. 2020 there is NO reason not to include it.
> ...


you're right .. I'm sorry I didn't catch the III!!! it looked like two I's. I assumed you were talking about the EOS R(s) which was the original post. most of the post was in response to other posts through the first 3 pages though.

the 1DX Mark III would certainly have h.264, and yeah, I would imagine it will have great video. The lack of h.264 (or 5) and HDMI out was a DIGIC problem that DIGIC 8 fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the first oversampled 4K video in that from Canon. They already _can_ do it, just not yet in an ILC form factor.


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## dtaylor (Apr 11, 2019)

epiieq1 said:


> I know what you're trying to say about the A9, but what was interesting to me about it is this. I rented one for a week. I actually shot photos at a couple of junior high volleyball games. Being able to pick a small region and have it prioritize face/eye tracking in that region upped my "keeper/possible" percentage tremendously. Granted, I had "Sony Claw" after the games due to the ergonomics, but the files seemed to process fairly well for high ISO.



I definitely need more stick time on my friend's A9 before I can fully judge its AF performance. And I do not want it to seem like I'm hand waving AI subject tracking. I'm certain it can increase keeper rates in certain situations.


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## ColinJR (Apr 11, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> I don't know if this is relevant but I hated Adobe's profiles for the 5Ds and got the Huelight profiles which I love. Crushed shadow tonality was one problem with the Adobe profiles. I knew this before I bought the 5Ds from test files I had processed.
> 
> My first question would be if you have the same experience using DPP? I want to use ACR for the features and detail recovery but had to get away from the included profiles.



Interesting... I haven't really tried DPP. I'll give that a shot and look into these huelight profiles.


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## noms78 (Apr 11, 2019)

40mp is enough. 50-70mp is overkill and only for a niche market, UNLESS it can shoot at lower resolution (30-40mp) with the same or better image quality than the EOS R / 5d4.


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## -pekr- (Apr 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon dominates the ILC market, and has for 16 years and counting. They've had ~50% market share for the past decade, and have that today. Please remind us all why they need to deliver 'some real sensor technology changes'. Note: "_Because I wants it, Precious_," is not a reason.



Neuro, you are sounding like a broken record with your constant "Canon dominate the ILC market" rumblings. What does have the market domination in common with the technology advancements? Please go and buy your next 6DII or EOR RP if you wish so, I will gladly pass on, so there is a better chance one is left for you in the store


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 11, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Neuro, you are sounding like a broken record with your constant "Canon dominate the ILC market" rumblings. What does have the market domination in common with the technology advancements? Please go and buy your next 6DII or EOR RP if you wish so, I will gladly pass on, so there is a better chance one is left for you in the store


As usual, you miss the point...either through intentional obtuseness or inability to comprehend. You’re the one who claimed that Canon is ‘buying time to bring real sensor technology changes’. Given the common DRumbeat on these forums that Canon’s sensors have been ‘behind’ for many years, and the fact that they haven’t lost any market share, I asked you to explain why Canon needs to ‘bring real sensor technology changes’. Clearly you had no cogent response, so you went with snark instead. Sad.


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## dtaylor (Apr 11, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Neuro, you are sounding like a broken record with your constant "Canon dominate the ILC market" rumblings. What does have the market domination in common with the technology advancements? Please go and buy your next 6DII or EOR RP if you wish so, I will gladly pass on, so there is a better chance one is left for you in the store



You used the "old Canon sensor" meme in reference to a rumored completely new sensor, and you are accusing Neuro of being a broken record?

Really???


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## rrcphoto (Apr 11, 2019)

noms78 said:


> 40mp is enough. 50-70mp is overkill and only for a niche market, UNLESS it can shoot at lower resolution (30-40mp) with the same or better image quality than the EOS R / 5d4.



40mp is not enough.

and this is a niche camera.


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## deleteme (Apr 11, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> What would be more fantastic is if it had a shorter flange distance than the EF-M system, so you could then mount EF-M lenses on it for such shooting. (EF-M film-flange distance is 18mm. RF is 20mm. Other makes are as short as 16mm. I see no technical advantage to 20mm. It'd be nice to use EF-M lenses instead of EF-S lenses on the R because they aren't retrofocus designs. EF-S lenses, like EF, are compromised to make room for the mirror. EF-M and RF aren't.)
> 
> If I had to point to one decision by Canon that was most likely to have me switch from EF to Sony, it would have been the 20mm flange distance.


I think it is possible that the 20mm flange distance was selected to create space in the body for future iterations of the electronics. E.G. FF 4K would generate a lot of heat. A thicker body could hold a larger heat sink or other strategies for dissipating heat. It could also house larger, more powerful processors for high rate FPS of high MP sensors. IBIS also takes room. IMO a larger area to incorporate it may allow them a more ambitious and effective design.
I think they though about the future a lot with this platform and tried to think of as many possibilities to avoid what they see is an increasingly difficult environment for expensive re-vamps of ILC lines.


----------



## deleteme (Apr 11, 2019)

Yesterday I had a job photographing a landscape scene at dawn for a book. I was using my 5DsR, 70-200 2.8L and a Gitzo tripod heavier than a Buick.

Shooting at 4 seconds I was noticing that the image wasn't quite as sharp as I felt it should be. After a few face slaps to wake me up I realized I wasn't shooting with mirror lockup. I switched to Live View and the images were razor sharp. The 5Dmk4 does Live View quite well while the DsR is slow-ish. The R just has no issues at all with vibration. For me if the next body is the high res version I will be on board.
Frame rate is irrelevant for this body. The subjects that demand sharp, high res images are those that can stand a more deliberate pace of photography.
Landscape scarcely needs more than 1 FPS, Fashion is regularly shot with MF cameras that poke along at 1FPS. Product? If your product is a bag of kittens maybe so.
As for the quality of the sensor, I am confident that Canon will match or exceed the current mk4 sensor. Despite the detractors, the putative shortcomings are largely invisible if one is in control of their craft. And when the differences are visible, your images are still dead. The only difference is the slightly prettier corpse of the competition.

Yeah, 2 card slots please. CF doesn't stink but I suppose I could live with SD. Also a larger EVF. I want a Cinerama (with a better eyecup) on the top please.


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## bellorusso (Apr 11, 2019)

100% will end up being an another Kiss Rebel 20000-something, lightest and weirdest camera for Japanese tourists. That's where Canon put all the efforts.


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## epiieq1 (Apr 11, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> I definitely need more stick time on my friend's A9 before I can fully judge its AF performance. And I do not want it to seem like I'm hand waving AI subject tracking. I'm certain it can increase keeper rates in certain situations.


Oh, I definitely agree. There were plenty of times I was frustrated as it wasn't doing what I wanted and I couldn't get it to focus where I wanted it to without choosing spot. I don't know if it was me, or just the way it was programmed.


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## bbb34 (Apr 11, 2019)

AlanF said:


> mrav said:
> 
> 
> > [...] many would like a 5DIV equiv. All the things the 5D has (that the EOS R is missing) and [...]
> ...



The mirror?


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## peters (Apr 11, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> you're right .. I'm sorry I didn't catch the III!!! it looked like two I's. I assumed you were talking about the EOS R(s) which was the original post. most of the post was in response to other posts through the first 3 pages though.
> 
> the 1DX Mark III would certainly have h.264, and yeah, I would imagine it will have great video. The lack of h.264 (or 5) and HDMI out was a DIGIC problem that DIGIC 8 fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the first oversampled 4K video in that from Canon. They already _can_ do it, just not yet in an ILC form factor.


Jeah, its gonna be a realy exciting camera  looking forward to it. I love the image from the 1DX II, but the codec is realy a hassle. It can be edited easily in Premiere, but there is pretty much no videoplayer that can replay it fluently, which is annoying.

The EOS R II (or however they will call it) with a higher MPixel count will likely be only good for photo. I cant imagine they gonna figure out how to read this sensor out and transfer it to a good video image. However, for wedding, fashion, products this will be a enormous advantage in my opinion


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## scyrene (Apr 11, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> 50 megapixels or 75 megapixels isn’t much of a difference. I expect the big change in this camera will be computing power, look for dual (or quad) digic9 to handle the processing load.



Do extra processors imply higher power consumption? If so, do we think that means a new battery and/or a bigger body (than R/RP) to accommodate that (not to mention heat dissipation)?


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## transpo1 (Apr 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Thanks for confirming my statement that you define advancement based solely on your personal wants.
> 
> Opinion ≠ data. Data = data. People who believe their opinions represent facts deserve to be called crazy.
> 
> If the folks who have clamored for more DR or better FF video performance have eschewed Canon, and if those groups comprised a 'considerable number' of people, Canon's market share would have suffered. It hasn't. So either all the DRones and discerning FF ILC videographers are just spouting off here but buying Canon cameras anyway...or what you believe to be a 'considerable number' is, in reality, irrelevant. My money is firmly on the latter. But you go right on inflating the importance of your own opinion...reality hasn't changed it so far.



You're welcome- as do you! Once again, however, you totally mischaracterize the debate and it is no surprise. And exhibit your *personal* opinion, which is that data and sales are the answer to every forum discussion and feature request.

Yes, you, too, are pushing a *personal* agenda, one in data and sales are the answer to every question, so best for Canon to be lazy and not include features to expand the marketable demographic of who purchases cameras to _expand_ marketshare.

My argument is that they could have made *more* money and have served their customers better, not simply play to the lowest common denominator by making the least effort. Canon left money on the Sony FF MILC table and they know it, which is why they have fast-tracked so many RF lenses and MILC bodies. This makes sense to most people. 

As far as data goes, you only have to look at the recent (incorrect) info about Canon EOS-R Raw video recording and how excited people got over it to see how they could expand their marketshare with the video centric/hybrid crowd.

The real data here is that being obtuse and only spouting sales and data as the answer to every feature request to make a better Canon product is not solution, only a lazy and ineffectual response.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 11, 2019)

transpo1 said:


> The real data here is that being obtuse and only spouting sales and data as the answer to every feature request to make a better Canon product is not solution, only a lazy and ineffectual response.


I prefer to live in the real world. So does Canon. But you go on living in your fantasy world where your opinion is reality and Canon delivers every feature you ask for before you even ask for it. Have fun!


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## transpo1 (Apr 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> I prefer to live in the real world. So does Canon. But you go on living in your fantasy world where your opinion is reality and Canon delivers every feature you ask for before you even ask for it. Have fun!



If you lived in the real world all the time, you’d never be developing the next product or focused on the future. You’d simply be satisfied with what you have now. I admit that sales are necessary (hence my ability to also think in the real world) but since Canon has that, time to think about their vision for delivering the best products. No vision = no best products of the future. 

In other words, Canon seems content to sell cameras by lowest common denominator at times, but as Steve Jobs said: 


> Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.


-Steve Jobs

Maybe Canon will give us a video feature we didn’t know we wanted yet on their next camera, but at this point, it would really surprise me- they’re still catching up to where the goal was last time.


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## transpo1 (Apr 11, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> I always thought that tagline was a typical sort of mistake made by a Japanese conglomerate. Worked for a couple in my time. Once branding agencies get in their heads, odd things happen. You can read that as "See? Impossible!" Because it doesn't have punctuation in the real tagline, it invites different readings from different people. Similar to the North Carolina license plate tagline "first in flight." As a kid I always thought that referred to a retreat in the Civil War, which definitely is not what they meant.
> 
> Perhaps we can come up with some better taglines for Canon. On second thought, maybe the forum wouldn't be such a good place for that. "Canon has 56 percent share, so buzz off" has a certain ring of truth, but it wouldn't test well.



I LOVE this


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## transpo1 (Apr 11, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> To downsample it to 4k I think is a CPU problem: may need two DIGIC 8's or a DIGIC... 9?
> 
> Higher frame rates: I don't know enough to know if this requires a sensor upgrade or again is a CPU problem.
> 
> However there are ZILLIONS of things I'd like the camera to do that probably don't need any sensor upgrade at all.



That’s probably true. 

Ironic, isn’t it? The “See Impossible” company is limited by CPU technology.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 11, 2019)

transpo1 said:


> If you lived in the real world all the time, you’d never be developing the next product or focused on the future. You’d simply be satisfied with what you have now. I admit that sales are necessary (hence my ability to also think in the real world) but since Canon has that, time to think about their vision for delivering the best products. No vision = no best products of the future.


What a ridiculous assertion.  Canon, like all companies, are constantly developing products for the future. Why else do we have the EOS R/RP, the SL3/250D, patents for several EF and RF lenses, etc.? The simple fact that you utterly and persistently fail to grasp is that Canon is developing products for _their_ future, not your future. You seemingly can’t accept the fact that they are quite successful at developing products for the future, in spite of the 16 years of evidence staring you in the face, the preponderance of white lenses at major sporting events, etc. You are also assuming that your personal definition of ‘best products’ is universal, but that’s complete bullshit. For many people, the ‘best’ camera is one like the SL3/250D that produces very good images and is affordable, or the one with the most MP in a 35mm format (ie. the 5Ds/R). For a very few people (I am one of them), the ‘best’ lens is a hand-holdable 600mm f/4...and if I were like you, I’d be accusing Sony of lacking the vision or technical competence to produce such a lens, and I’d be demanding that they ‘catch up’.


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## crazyrunner33 (Apr 11, 2019)

mrav said:


> I wonder about switching a camera between high and low/med. resolution. Is it the sensor doing the work or is it the digic processor? I would expect if it's the sensor then we'd get better quality than using a processor to take the 70+MP and process it down to a smaller size. Would the smaller res be as good as a camera that is dedicated to that size (one that is fine-tuned for it)? I guess, either way, it all depends how it gets that smaller res image.



That depends on the sensor used. Some of the newer Sony Semiconductor sensors are performing binning on the sensor level instead of the processor. An example of that is the sensor used in the GH5S(the low light M4/3 queen), BMPCC and the 8K Sharp camera(actually, a slightly modified version of this sensor) that's in development. 

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/may_2017/imx294cjk_e.html 

A lot of people assume the GH5S has amazing low light because of the low megapixel count and people assume the 8K Sharp camera will have an insane amount of noise due to the amount of tiny pixels. As we've seen, that's not the case. In 8K mode, the sensor is super sharp, below is an example of it in the Sharp prototype camera. You can see the detail really well if you have a 4K TV and turn the YouTube setting to 8K, or to 1440p if you're on a 1080 monitor. Lowlight doesn't look bad, but color and DR will not be as good as a binned 4K mode like on the GH5S. 






I'm hoping the 70+ MP camera that Canon has on the horizon will use similar techniques and allow the user to choose between high resolution and lowlight/color/dr performance. That's assuming if there are no patents that'd violate Sony Semiconductor's patents.


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## Shaun Gibbs (Apr 12, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> The EOS R has a vertical grip that takes two batteries, by the way. It's stupidly expensive given that it does nothing, really, so I haven't bought it yet, but I might, just because the R grip is about 1.5 fingers too short for my hand.



I have it and it is great. Comes with the USB-C charger too which can charge the R body directly with grip removed and also the two batteries in the grip, albeit one at a time, sadly. 

But it is great after a shoot to just plug in the USB charger and leave it. It also has the sync port, if anyone uses those anymore. 

I am getting batteries down by only 15% after two hours of studio shooting (approx. 430 shots), which means about 12 hours shooting on two batteries in the grip and about 2500 shots, conservatively. Not bad at all.

It is built extremely well and the batteries clip in nicely.


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## Mikehit (Apr 14, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Given their market dominance they can do anything the feel they have to. I generally like your comment, but I'd rephrase this last bit as "
> It doesn't matter if Sony, Nikon or whoever else feels like they have to do it, Canon doesn't. Not right now."



Canon have admitted in interview that they cannot do what Sony are doing because they do not have the sensor technology - and also admitted that they were concentrating on maintaining sensors for three lines (APS-C DSLR & M series, video and DSLR as well as more recently the developing R series). It seems Sony went all-in on developing the sensor for the FF cameras which seems to have paid off. Reading between the lines I assume that now they have the R series on the road they are putting a higher priority on sensor development.
Canon refuse to buy in sensor technology for their ILCs and you can criticise that decision all you want but for now the issue is 'Canon cannot...'.


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## QuisUtDeus (Apr 14, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> Canon have admitted in interview that they cannot do what Sony are doing because they do not have the sensor technology - and also admitted that they were concentrating on maintaining sensors for three lines (APS-C DSLR & M series, video and DSLR as well as more recently the developing R series).* It seems Sony went all-in on developing the sensor for the FF cameras which seems to have paid off.* Reading between the lines I assume that now they have the R series on the road they are putting a higher priority on sensor development.
> Canon refuse to buy in sensor technology for their ILCs and you can criticise that decision all you want but for now the issue is 'Canon cannot...'.



Except in terms of actually making money.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 15, 2019)

QuisUtDeus said:


> Except in terms of actually making money.


You don’t think Sony generates profit selling full frame camera sensors? That seems unlikely to me. Surely they make more selling huge quantities of mobile device sensors, etc., but I doubt their larger sensor business operates without profit.


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## BillB (Apr 15, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> You don’t think Sony generates profit selling full frame camera sensors? That seems unlikely to me. Surely they make more selling huge quantities of mobile device sensors, etc., but I doubt their larger sensor business operates without profit.


Has Sony recovered the front end investments they put into developing their full frame cameras? Maybe so, maybe not.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 15, 2019)

BillB said:


> Has Sony recovered the front end investments they put into developing their full frame cameras? Maybe so, maybe not.


Full frame cameras? I don’t know, but given how quickly they spun out 9 of them, I’d imagine they have minimized development cost. 

The post I quoted referred to sensors, though. I can’t imagine Sony Semiconductor Solutions would keep that product line alive if it lost money.


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## Quirkz (Apr 15, 2019)

ColinJR said:


> At 70mp, I would hope for a binned 35mp mode that provided better noise (and low light?) performance. Still plenty of resolution for most scenarios. But yeah, as an owner of an EOS R, I'm really hoping for a few things in a camera like this—the return of 5D/7D ergonomics (a few more CF buttons and a joystick), dual card slots, and better rendering.
> 
> On the last point, it's hard to describe, but the R's files have a tendency to look "crunchy" and not all that pleasing right out of camera. It seems like I have to massage them a lot more in post to get good results. This is compared to my original 7D and my Fujifilm X-E3. I don't know if it's just the way the camera processes the files or if it's a sensor thing or what, but the color and contrast seem off—not enough color saturation, too much contrast. I end up trying different camera profiles in LR and can usually get good results, but the files are always a bit 'meh' out of camera. Anyone else?



This might be a preference thing. I’ve got the Fuji x-e3 as well, and the 5d4 (I’m assuming there isn’t a big difference from the R to the 5d4, given the very similar sensor, but correct me if I’m wrong). I prefer the shots out of the 5d4 myself for that contrast punch, and I find the colors more natural. Love the x-e3 for the size to performance ratio, just prefer the image from the 5D4.


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## Kit. (Apr 15, 2019)

crazyrunner33 said:


> Some of the newer Sony Semiconductor sensors are performing binning on the sensor level instead of the processor.


You cannot do it with a normal Bayer pattern, or you will lose more resolution than you expected. In IMX294CJK, Sony uses "Quad Bayer" pattern, which even without binning has half of the color resolution of the normal Bayer pattern.


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## Del Paso (Apr 15, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> Most probably it is just another camera to buy Canon a bit more of a time to come with some real sensor technology changes. First, 5DIV like sensor, second, 6DII like sensor, next - high res sensor. Would be suprprised, if it would be all new generation of sensors accompained with IBIS, etc.


Did you ever post a positive comment upon Canon?


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## Kit. (Apr 15, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> 1) Bayer has 1 R 1 B but 2 greens, because green is the most important channel to human vision. But the biggest challenge to shooting is low-light, which is usually very warm incandescent or even candlelight, where there's very little blue. Wouldn't an alternate with twice the blue therefore be better? It'd practically cut low-light noise in half. It'd double noise in the important green channel in high-light situations but we have sensitivity to burn in well-lit situations.


The green channel is important for luminance resolution. Human eye is very poor at resolving fine details in blue color.



SwissFrank said:


> 2) what about an alternate pattern with two channels of IR?
> 
> 3) what about an alternate pattern with three channels of IR and one white pixel? It wouldn't capture color info of course but would add a couple stops sensitivity in low-light situation?
> 
> ...


Ideally, we would want our pixels to saturate at the same exposure. With RGBW, the W channel saturates early and provides little to no information in "normal" light. The W channel somehow helps in case of underexposure, but at the expense of color noise.

If we don't care about color at all, a monochrome sensor is obviously the best. If we do care about color recognition, but not by humans (machine vision), CYYM or CMYW would probably be the best. The infrared channel would add more information for subject recognition in machine vision, but not all lenses are apochromatic "enough" for it to be in focus.


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## flip314 (Apr 15, 2019)

Kit. said:


> The green channel is important for luminance resolution. Human eye is very poor at resolving fine details in blue color.



You can actually do some cool experiments in photoshop. Take any photo at screen resolution and split it into the R G + B channels. Resize the blue channel to 50% size, then 200% size (so it's the same as the starting resolution). This basically throws away a bunch of the blue information from the picture. Then recombine the channels. You will be hard pressed to notice any loss in resolution. You can probably even get away with it at 33%-300% or 25%->400% resize.

Try the same thing with green and you'll notice right away. Red kind of falls somewhere in the middle between green and blue for importance to humans.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 17, 2019)

Pape said:


> I dont like shoot blind after couple shoot i wait viewfinder lag ends and recompose pic . They need get lag away before can increase fps



That's what your left eye is for. Try it sometime. It does take getting used to, but eventually you can train your brain to use one eye at a time when both are open.



ColinJR said:


> At 70mp, I would hope for a binned 35mp mode that provided better noise (and low light?) performance. Still plenty of resolution for most scenarios. But yeah, as an owner of an EOS R, I'm really hoping for a few things in a camera like this—the return of 5D/7D ergonomics (a few more CF buttons and a joystick), dual card slots, and better rendering.
> 
> On the last point, it's hard to describe, but the R's files have a tendency to look "crunchy" and not all that pleasing right out of camera. It seems like I have to massage them a lot more in post to get good results. This is compared to my original 7D and my Fujifilm X-E3. I don't know if it's just the way the camera processes the files or if it's a sensor thing or what, but the color and contrast seem off—not enough color saturation, too much contrast. I end up trying different camera profiles in LR and can usually get good results, but the files are always a bit 'meh' out of camera. Anyone else?



Horizontal or vertical line binning doesn't really do much for improving noise performance. Full binning of a 70MP sensor would result in a 17.5MP image, not 30MP.



ColinJR said:


> On the last point, it's hard to describe, but the R's files have a tendency to look "crunchy" and not all that pleasing right out of camera. It seems like I have to massage them a lot more in post to get good results. This is compared to my original 7D and my Fujifilm X-E3. I don't know if it's just the way the camera processes the files or if it's a sensor thing or what, but the color and contrast seem off—not enough color saturation, too much contrast. I end up trying different camera profiles in LR and can usually get good results, but the files are always a bit 'meh' out of camera. Anyone else?



LR is only guessing at Canon's demosaicing algorithms. Whatever you see when LR first opens a raw file is just one of many possible interpretations of the raw image data. There's no such thing as "the" raw file in terms of what you can see on a screen. It's always a processed interpretation.




Don Haines said:


> 50 megapixels or 75 megapixels isn’t much of a difference. I expect the big change in this camera will be computing power, look for dual (or quad) digic9 to handle the processing load.



How are they going to get rid of the heat from all of that processing? Where are they going to get the energy for more than 100-200 frames per battery?



Normalnorm said:


> I think it is possible that the 20mm flange distance was selected to create space in the body for future iterations of the electronics. E.G. FF 4K would generate a lot of heat. A thicker body could hold a larger heat sink or other strategies for dissipating heat. It could also house larger, more powerful processors for high rate FPS of high MP sensors. IBIS also takes room. IMO a larger area to incorporate it may allow them a more ambitious and effective design.
> I think they though about the future a lot with this platform and tried to think of as many possibilities to avoid what they see is an increasingly difficult environment for expensive re-vamps of ILC lines.



But all of that can be done better _behind_ and below the sensor. A longer registration distance just necessitates more _empty_ space between the sensor and the flange.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 17, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> That's what your left eye is for.



Yep; far better situational awareness. I spent many years behind rifle scopes, and shoot cameras the same way.


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## Pape (Apr 17, 2019)

i believe i use both eyes ,but after 2 first shot flying bird seems to wander edge of frame ,cant compose with left eye 
maybe my hands just not steady enough to follow steady
Or pressing shutter makes camera wobble so only first one is good centered.


To be really amazing action camera ,mirrorless should have one processor what only job is make viewfinder roll good so never any lag. i would like that more than higher fp speed.


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## Don Haines (Apr 17, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> How are they going to get rid of the heat from all of that processing? Where are they going to get the energy for more than 100-200 frames per battery?


I suspect that it is going to be a 1DX2 size body. Have you seen the latest Olympus? It’s huge for a 4/3 camera! I think that a “pro” mirrorless is going to be a large camera.....


----------



## -pekr- (Apr 17, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> As usual, you miss the point...either through intentional obtuseness or inability to comprehend. You’re the one who claimed that Canon is ‘buying time to bring real sensor technology changes’. Given the common DRumbeat on these forums that Canon’s sensors have been ‘behind’ for many years, and the fact that they haven’t lost any market share, I asked you to explain why Canon needs to ‘bring real sensor technology changes’. Clearly you had no cogent response, so you went with snark instead. Sad.



What do you really want me to say here? Once I am considering to buy some product, I rarely care about company's market share. Well - kind of anywy - would not buy from a potentially bancrupt one, risking some warranty issues, etc. So we've been waiting for the 6DII. And I did not like its featureset - from sensor, to dumbing down simple stuff like phone output, present on 80D, etc. What you call a DRumbeat, we felt as an important aspect for our flash-less wedding in-church shooting. So my question is - do you, in any situation, allow a customer to just say - no? Or should we buy anything Canon just throws at us?

So the story continued for us - saved a bit more (and remember, in some countries, you charge something like 300-500 for a wedding shoot), and went with the 5DIV, as we felt it will have some longer term lifespan for us. Then the R came. Generally, I like the concept very much. But so far, even when I thought we could buy it as a secondary body, I just said - not yet. R - 5DIV sensor, we've already got. RP - 6DII sensor, we don't want. So the next step from Canon I have expected, is some higher res body. Packing more pixels onboard does not necessarily mean the whole ecosystem upgrade - DR, IBIS, DPAF speed, etc.

So once again - we have the right to sit and wait. The next product for us is the 5DIV replacement in an R body. In the meantime we have bought Canon Image Prograf 1000 for in-house up to A2 printing. Thinking to buy M5 or M6 replacement, just for an amusement. But - once again versed (not necessarily negative) about the M vs R mount situation - no upgrade path apart from EF mount.

So, yes - Canon either surprises us with new sensor tech, or what we are going to see is mostly refurbished 5DS(R) sensor, along with awful tracking speed, etc. My guess is based upon what we've got with R and RP, thinking Canon needs more time to come-up with more general advancements. And I think it is going to be available with the 5DIV replacement. If it comes sooner, well then, will wait for the lower res version anyway - we don't need/want 70mpix anyway.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 17, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> What do you really want me to say here? Once I am considering to buy some product, I rarely care about company's market share. Well - kind of anywy - would not buy from a potentially bancrupt one, risking some warranty issues, etc. So we've been waiting for the 6DII. And I did not like its featureset - from sensor, to dumbing down simple stuff like phone output, present on 80D, etc. What you call a DRumbeat, we felt as an important aspect for our flash-less wedding in-church shooting. So my question is - do you, in any situation, allow a customer to just say - no? Or should we buy anything Canon just throws at us?
> 
> So the story continued for us - saved a bit more (and remember, in some countries, you charge something like 300-500 for a wedding shoot), and went with the 5DIV, as we felt it will have some longer term lifespan for us. Then the R came. Generally, I like the concept very much. But so far, even when I thought we could buy it as a secondary body, I just said - not yet. R - 5DIV sensor, we've already got. RP - 6DII sensor, we don't want. So the next step from Canon I have expected, is some higher res body. Packing more pixels onboard does not necessarily mean the whole ecosystem upgrade - DR, IBIS, DPAF speed, etc.
> 
> ...


You can say and whatever you want. Buy...don’t buy. Complain on a forum. Canon doesn’t care. Their maintained ~50% market share says they continue to make decisions approved by the majority of ILC buyers. (Oh, and as for bankrupt companies, Samsung certainly isn’t one...but where is the NX series now?  )


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## Don Haines (Apr 17, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> So once again - we have the right to sit and wait. The next product for us is the 5DIV replacement in an R body. In the meantime we have bought Canon Image Prograf 1000 for in-house up to A2 printing. Thinking to buy M5 or M6 replacement, just for an amusement. But - once again versed (not necessarily negative) about the M vs R mount situation - no upgrade path apart from EF mount.


Personally, I think that sit and wait is a fine option. If what you have does the job and there is no compelling “killer feature “ that you need, why not wait? Myself, I have yet to upgrade to the next model, I tend to skip versions. I think that the R series has great potential, but will not jump until I see a significant improvement over what I have. 

Everyone is speculating about the future, but nobody knows what it will be except Canon, and they are not talking.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 17, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Personally, I think that sit and wait is a fine option. If what you have does the job and there is no compelling “killer feature “ that you need, why not wait? Myself, I have yet to upgrade to the next model, I tend to skip versions. I think that the R series has great potential, but will not jump until I see a significant improvement over what I have.


Waiting is perfectly fine. I see no need to get the 1D X II, my 1D X meets my needs just fine. I did get an EOS R because it was a significant improvement in certain ways over my current gear:

Much smaller than my 1D X
FF sensor which my M6 lacks
Ability to easily use an ND filter (adapter) with my TS-E 17 and 11-24 which are very challenging to front-filter
My main use for the EOS R will be travel.


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## Don Haines (Apr 17, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Waiting is perfectly fine. I see no need to get the 1D X II, my 1D X meets my needs just fine. I did get an EOS R because it was a significant improvement in certain ways over my current gear:
> 
> Much smaller than my 1D X
> FF sensor which my M6 lacks
> ...


I am thinking about the R for travel too. So far, I don't see any lenses that strike my fancy, but the 24-105 comes close... At the moment there is not enough lens selection for me so it would end up with an adaptor for everything. Of the rumoured lenses to come soon, it is the 24-240 that gets me going. If it is reasonably good and at a reasonable price, I can see jumping in. As a one lens walk-about camera that has the ability to be an awesome pair.

Of course, all is speculation now, so I shall wait and see.


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