# upgrade from t2i to 1dm4 or 1dx??



## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

Ok so I have been all over the world via interweb.... hah..
my first post here...

so lets start here.. you can see my current gear list on POTN...
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=10733015&postcount=2458

my flickr - most anything beer bottle held and rc car based is galaxy note 3 based except for rc car white box background...

anyway...
quick note on me.. I am a hobbyist due to kids. It all started 5 years ago when my oldest got into night hockey. Our P&S took pics that made the kids look like zombies... white eyes and all fuzzy...

anyway I purchased a t2i and took off.. while I have been having fun... funds have made it difficult to upgrade. We did deck hockey and travel soccer.... for general use the 55-250 for soccer and 85mm f1.8 does ok for night street hockey....

I soon lusted for an upgrade and the 70d was it. I expected a bonus of $7k+ ($4400 after taxes) so when it came in recently I told the wife I was going to use 1/2 to buy a 70d and 70-200 2.8 mark i. long story short and none the less.. my bonus paid for a trip to NC outer banks which we do every year.

so I was told by my love of 23 years (married 20 this year)... 
that if I want a new camera sell my truck...
truck specs: worked motor/6" lift tubbed 40" ground hawgs/1 tons/ detroit lockers front and back.. the list goes on..

anyway had someone checkout the truck and he is trying to get the $$$$$$$$$$ together...

so I will have $7k in my hands.. when I do I need to spend it all before it gets used for bills...
I have a winch which will be sold separate for $1200 or the kid can give me $8k for truck and winch.. anyway... im babbling...

IF HE DOES NOT BACK OUT IN 3 DAYS!!!!!!

so guy I work with is a 2nd shooter of weddings for a studio and does many jobs. He shoots a 5dm3 and has many lenses. We talk and he said the 1D Mark IV is what I need. 

aka Need - Outdoor Night Street Hockey (ball on foot on asphalt) / Travel Soccer U8 and U14 / Indoor MMA (Mixed Martial Arts)

so now that you see my needs...
I LUST the 1dx however he (guy at work) says there is no reason to buy a 1dx or d4s unless you are a supremely booked photographer and as a hobbyist it will fall into idiocy.

so my delema... I could keep my t2i and buy glass... I want a body to use in the rain as some games happen that way. Night Hockey is usually in fall from Nov to end of Jan so Snow/Slush/Rainy Slush....

2 other guys at work are bad word users (NIKON) and I tried getting them on my side...

am I really stretching it? I would have the $$$$ if the kid buys the truck.... to get a 1dx... is it really needed?
or should I just sit back with the 1D Mark IV?

I am looking for people that had the 1dm4 went to 1dx and love it or went back....

I have seen every possible thread on the web... specs on paper are not real world... 

side note I do want to go to a side paid event where I have a hookup with the local hockey league to do action shots and setup a studio.


so here is the biggest part..
if kid buys truck I have 2 choices... u tell me what would U do ... not what is ethical but what you would do even if it is stupid....

I always overdue.. my push mower has basically a ride mower.. I bought a new 2013 gmc sierra last year.. oh it came with 35's / 6" lift and really expensive.. and I drive it 125 miles a day filling up every other day... so yeah I overdo most ...

understand I know about mega zooms and iq loss but on these bodies I can live with it....
so choices... 
Canon 1D Mark IV / Tammy 70-200 2.8 vc / Sigma 50-500(moon shots and long reach soccer) / sigma 18-35 f1.8
$1000 left over - buy memory cards / batteries and whatever...
or 
1dx / Tammy 70-200 2.8 vc / Sigma 50-500


now I know about the mega zoom in 50-500.. i played with one on the 70d in the store and really liked it.. so it will be in my bag even if guy doesnt buy the truck and I dont get anything.. the sigma will be used even on my t2i.... 


so checkout my flickr... im a sub par hobbyist... I am in IT and if I post something it is up for grabs on bashing... I wont be upset...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

16 reads and no replies.. guess im a loner dotty...


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## tron (May 9, 2014)

I cannot advise on 1Dx vs 1DMkIV since I have 2 5DMkIII cameras.

But I comment on lenses:

Keep these: 

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM
Canon EF 24-105mm L
50mm 1.8 II

Sell the rest and the Rebel (generally everything APS-C) to get some extra money.

Get Canon 70-200 2.8L IS II instead of the Tamron. It seems that you will keep it for long so get the best.
Now I do not know Sigma 50-500 but I would not have high expectations.

There are shorter Canon lenses like 300mm f/4L, 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L, etc....

Or you could find a used 300mm 2.8L IS (version 1) but in that case I would suggest to save on camera
and get a 5DMkIII instead of 1Dx.


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## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

tron said:


> I cannot advise on 1Dx vs 1DMkIV since I have 2 5DMkIII cameras.
> 
> But I comment on lenses:
> 
> ...




i hear ya man..
my t2i aint goin for sale.. my 14 year old will get it with the 55-250
side note on the 50-500...

I use the 55 side and 250 side cropped... so while i know not high expectations of it.. it will come out ok...

my thing is 1dm4 or 1dx... my biggest..


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## 3kramd5 (May 9, 2014)

What about the 1D are you desiring that, say, a 5D3 won't provide? Weather sealing? Frame rate? It seems odd to spend a significant amount of money on a top of the line body, in particular one who's strongest asset is autofocus, and to use lenses that may not keep up. 

I suspect that a couple of series 2 constant f zooms and a 5D3 will do you better than a 1D and some 3rd party glass, unless you have a specific need for the 1D. You could still get a superzoom.


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## distant.star (May 9, 2014)

.
I vote for the 5d3 as a starting point.

The af is good enough to do anything you need. The low light performance is excellent. I always think it's better to buy into the future than the past.


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## DRR (May 9, 2014)

Disclaimer - I have never used a 1DX.

I will say though, that if you buy a 1DX, I am sure you'll love it. I don't hear a lot of negatives from the 1DX. At that price point I wouldn't expect to.

My advice on bodies - don't buy a 1DX, don't buy a 5D3, don't buy a 1D4. Buy a 1D3. 

My reasoning - 

looking at your flickr, you don't have a lot of impossibly challenging lighting situations. Soccer is outside during the daytime. MMA stuff looks reasonably well lit (for the type of lighting available at least.) The 1D3 will handle those just fine.

1D3 vs 1D4 - the 1D4 is three times as expensive as the 1D3. If you hate the 1D3 after a few months you could probably sell it for almost all of what you paid for it. The 1D4 is going to take a larger hit, and it costs twice as much up front. But I bet the 1D3 will be plenty of camera for you.

The 1DX is an absolute luxury item for you. I would invest in glass. (I am also not one of those "always invest in glass" guys either) Looking at your lens list and the types of things you shoot, you'd be much better off spending some of that money on a telephoto prime and a teleconverter than you would on a 1DX.

If you feel the 1D3 is too old a body for your liking then get the 1D4. 5D3 is an awesome camera but for all the sports and action you shoot I think you'd be better served with an APS-H sensor and speed speed speed than you would be with full frame and better ISO performance.

Lenses - pick up a 70-200 2.8 IS II and a 300 f/4 IS, and a teleconverter, for $3500. 1D4 for $2500 in good condition. That's a much better way to spend your money than throwing it all into the body. 

In 3 years time we'll be talking about the 1DX II and the 1DX will be worth a fraction of what it is now. Meanwhile, the lenses I listed will still be selling at 90% of their original value. 

Just some food for thought.


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## privatebydesign (May 9, 2014)

I understand your desire for the 1Dx, but your photographer friend is talking a lot of sense, and, as he knows you personally, I would concur with him.

The 1DX would be overkill and the most compelling of its high end features, the superb AF with matched lenses, would be lost on you it you paired it to the Tamron and Sigma (not that I am dismissing those lenses), however to get the best out of it the MkII zooms and super teles are the lenses it is designed to perform best and most accurately with.

I'd recommend the 1D MkIV.


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## BL (May 9, 2014)

If you've got the budget for it and the wife gives you the green light, what are you waiting for? ;D

As a hobbyist, what's wrong with using great gear if you can afford it? A few of my buddies are into cars (GT3, RT/10, etc.) and these things enjoy life as garage queens that never hit a track. 

However, a 1D body is going to open the floodgates of spending for white lenses and fast glass. You've been warned...



wait a second... THIS is your truck?







forget the 1DX... stick with your rebel


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## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

BL said:


> wait a second... THIS is your truck?




no I was messing with the wife.. I bought one of those z-92's last year.. so I have the other body style. I txt the wife saying hey look.. she replied back.. GET OUT OF THERE!!!!!

and here is what I txt her...



2014 Z-92 and my 2013 Z-92 by TeleFragger / RootBreaker, on Flickr



here is front of Wild Blue that will be making the payments for the camera gear if she sells...



2013z92 by TeleFragger / RootBreaker, on Flickr


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## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

side note.. guy I work with said if he didnt have so much equipment he would switch to Nikon... a friend of mine didnt have a DSLR and he went with the D610.. while not as fast in fps.. it is FF and 24mp which from reading other threads up here that people are thinking of switching from 1dx back to 5dm3 due to that very reason...

decisions decisions decisions....


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## AcutancePhotography (May 9, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> side note.. guy I work with said if he didnt have so much equipment he would switch to Nikon...



That is something to consider. Not necessarly Nikon, but since you don't have all that much invested and you are considering spending large bucks, this may be your only chance to affordably choose which camera system you wish to use.

You should look at Nikon and Pentax systems too. See if what they offer may be more suited to your individual type of photography. Don't just think you have to buy Canon because you have shot Canon in the past. 

Dispite this being a Canon forum, both Nikon and Pentax make some very nice cameras, each with advantages and disadvantages. Canon also makes some very nice cameras, each with advantages and disadvantages. But no manufacturer makes the best camera, as best can only be defined as what is best for you and your individual style of photography. 

A camera is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It should not be a status symbol. Take some time and really identify what your individual photographic needs are (don't be concerned with what other photographers need). And find the camera system that provides what you need, what you want, at a price you want to spend. Be especially wary of people on the Internets Tubes advising you on how to spend *your* money. LoL

If *I* am spending *your* money then clearly a Phase One is what you need. However, when I was spending *my* money, I got something considerably cheaper. ;D

Good luck with it. You are in a very fortunate position. Perhaps, unless you get another chunk o money, the only time you will be in this position. Don't make the decision in haste.

I was in a simular position as you were. I had old equipment and cheap lenses that I purchased over the years when I was po. I had an chance for a once-in-my-life purchase of a new camera system. Clearly at first I considered the same manufacturer as my old system. But, since I was truly starting over and wanted to replace my old cheap glass with new higher quality glass, I also looked at other manufacturers. 

That is one of the more frustrating aspects of photography. Once you start investing in one system, it makes it harder to change to another system. 

1. I buy a CaNikon system

2. When it comes time to buy another lens, I will naturally buy a lens that works with my CaNikon. I am not going to buy a lens that does not work with my current body.

3. When it comes to upgrade my body, well since I already have CaNikon lenses, naturally I will upgrade to a CaNikon body. I am not going to buy a body that can't use my existing lenses

... and the cycle continues. 

Choose well and wisely my friend. You are in an enviable position.


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## Vivid Color (May 9, 2014)

TeleFragger, 

I can't tell you which camera body to get but I can ask a couple of questions that may help you in making your decision. 

Several other posters have suggested you consider the 5D Mark III and I too think that is a worthy option to consider. So here are my questions:

What exactly would the 1dx and 1d4 do for your particular photography that a 5D Mark III won't? 

And is that difference worth the extra money you would be spending? 

Or would that extra money be better spent on higher-end glass or something else like a nice trip? 

Hope these questions help. 

Vivid 

PS: you may already have thought of this but be sure to set aside enough money to get your new equipment properly insured. Many homeowner policies will not cover the dollar value of camera equipment you are considering without a specific rider or option. And you may want to get a separate policy and not mingle it with your homeowners insurance.


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## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> TeleFragger,
> 
> I can't tell you which camera body to get but I can ask a couple of questions that may help you in making your decision.
> 
> ...



well that is the thing. The guy I work with has a 5dm3 and does studio work with peeps and he recommends the 1dm4 over the 5dm3


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## tron (May 9, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> Vivid Color said:
> 
> 
> > TeleFragger,
> ...


Then why didn't he get it himself?


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## bdunbar79 (May 9, 2014)

Why on earth would anyone recommend the 1D4 over the 5D3 for studio work? I shot with both cameras a lot, and the 5D3 IQ is better than the 1D4, hands-down. Weddings I can understand, the 1D4 having the 1/300s flash sync speed, but IQ is still less.


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## Vivid Color (May 9, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> Vivid Color said:
> 
> 
> > TeleFragger,
> ...



Did he say, or did you ask him, exactly why he recommends the 1dm4 over the 5dm3? And does this reason fit with your situation? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Details matter. Your exact purposes matter. In the end, it's up to you, but I'm seeing mostly what other people are telling you. What I'm not seeing in your statements is something specific to your situation like: I prefer camera body X to camera body Y because it has these sets of features and I'm willing to pay $xxxx more to get those specific extra features. Or, I'm going with camera body A over camera body B even though A doesn't have all the features of B, but I don't really need those features for what I do and I can use the $zzzz money I'm saving by buying A and use it for [state purpose here].


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## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> TeleFragger said:
> 
> 
> > Vivid Color said:
> ...




yeah he is one cube away.. so I just walked over there (we got big cubes with high walls.. hah..

but anyway he said because the 5dm3 is not a sports camera. Wont give me the 10fps, is rugged but not as much since I told him some games are in the rain and i mean down pour.
I know some here will say the 5dm3 will do just that too....

he has a 1dm2 and 5dm3... now he shoots weddings on the side.. doesnt really do sports... 

I cant sit here and say I like X body over x body or I like these features on body x because I havent messed with them all...
there is a local camera shop that we walked into (we as in 5dm3 boy and I).. and I got to hold the 70d with 50-500 on it and i liked the feel A LOT... but that was before my truck was up for sale so if the truck sale goes through im looking at bigger toys!!!!


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## BL (May 9, 2014)

If you feel comfortable, and he is a close enough friend, ask him to borrow it over a weekend when you are shooting MMA or sports when he's not shooting 2nd.

This will likely answer most of your questions. Something tells me 6fps from the 5D will be sufficient - getting keepers has more to do with technique (e.g. timing and anticipation) in action, imho anyway. 1Dx just takes spray and pray to a whole new level.


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## TeleFragger (May 9, 2014)

BL said:


> If you feel comfortable, and he is a close enough friend, ask him to borrow it over a weekend when you are shooting MMA or sports when he's not shooting 2nd.
> 
> This will likely answer most of your questions. Something tells me 6fps from the 5D will be sufficient - getting keepers has more to do with technique (e.g. timing and anticipation) in action, imho anyway. 1Dx just takes spray and pray to a whole new level.



he wont loan anything out.. I needed a 70-200 f2.8 for a work event and I hinted needing to find one to borrow. later that day we were talking about something and he said.. yeah that is why I dont loan anything out to ANYONE....

also spray and pray... i do fine with my 3.4 a sec... I got ok timing.. anticipation.. I did one street hockey and got EVERY goal in the net... think it was like 6-4... what I want out of the spray is simple... something I have wanted to do and cant do with my t2i...

see an anticipated goal from the goalie... or dive save...

zoom out a bit for full frame I want... start the ... RATTTAAA TAAAT TTAAAAT TAAAAAT....
then at home take say 8 or so.... layer them in Photoshop and have that beautiful pic showing all motion where starting point is faint all the way to the dive save that is not faint at all...


same as baseball... get the pitcher winding up and throwing.... ball in air down the plate line.. then batter hitting...

a lot of work on that one but would be cool....


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## BL (May 9, 2014)

Have you considered renting? Try the 5D and maybe even throw in the 70-200 2.8 - 5 days rental will likely cost somewhere around $200.

Renting could save you $2000-$3000+ if you find the 5DIII suits your needs and don't feel the need for a 1D body.


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## sagittariansrock (May 9, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> BL said:
> 
> 
> > If you feel comfortable, and he is a close enough friend, ask him to borrow it over a weekend when you are shooting MMA or sports when he's not shooting 2nd.
> ...




LOL! I can see why your friend suggested the 1D IV. 
It seems the rapid-fire burst and a rugged body really appeals to you, you like things big and badass! Like your truck!
And your friend has brought you down from the unrealistic (for your experience and needs, probably) 1D X to a more reasonable 1D IV- I give him credits for that. 
I have never used a 1-series body, but I have not heard anything bad about them except weight (oh, and Mackguyver's fake rants about his 1D X!). The ergonomics are great, the fps and ruggedness as mentioned before, premium AF and control features.

I also don't think you will lose a lot of IQ by getting the 1D IV instead of the 5DIII. Sometimes, IQ isn't the most important thing. Personally, I don't think you'd be happy with a 5DIII, regardless of the images you get from it and the features it provides. I also think you won't miss the 1D X if you end up getting the 1D IV.

My 2 cents- get the 1D IV- you'll be very satisfied.
Cheers


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## Dylan777 (May 9, 2014)

1D X will not give you decent IQ if don't have decent lenses to shoot with.


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## mackguyver (May 9, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> I have never used a 1-series body, but I have not heard anything bad about them except weight (oh, and Mackguyver's fake rants about his 1D X!). The ergonomics are great, the fps and ruggedness as mentioned before, premium AF and control features.


Who said my rants were fake! Okay, they might have been a little sarcastic...but yes, other than the size & weight, you won't hear many complaints about the 1D X. The 1D III is another story, but they fixed that with the 1D IV . I haven't seen many complaints about the 5DIII, either, though.

I'd second the suggestion on giving the gear a rent, but will say that the 5DIII is plenty of camera for most people and 6fps isn't 12fps, but it's fast enough for most sports and wildlife work if you have good timing. Even with the 1D X, you can't machine gun a whole game unless you want to go through a few 256GB cards and spend hours and hours going through near-identical photos. The difference between 6 & 12 fps is really this - 12fps is for when you have to get the shot and can't miss it / have to capture the precise moment (like when the ball leaves the players hand). 6fps is for when you are okay with getting most shots and potentially missing the peak moment but getting the shot just before or just after the peak.


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## Deleted member 91053 (May 9, 2014)

I don't have too much experience of the 5D Nk3, but from what I have seen/tried is is a fine camera and I rate it. I used to have a 1D4 and currently use the 1DX.
The 1DX is a fantastic camera that I would recommend to anyone - if they don't mind the weight! However in your case I would strongly suggest that a 5D3 with a few L lenses would be a better setup than a 1DX with cheaper glass (as many have already said). With third party lenses you will loose much, if not all, of the AF speed advantage of the 1DX. Even for sports/wildlife 6fps isn't a huge disadvantage, I never ran my 1D4 or run my 1DX at max fps as there is little point and the AF seems to work a little better at 1 or 2 fps below max.
The 5D3 is arguably the best "All Round" camera currently available at less than silly money. If your main bias is fast moving subjects the a used 1D4 is roughly the same money and a good alternative. For more general use I would go for the 5D3.
I only went to the 1D4/1DX AFTER I had my glass, as whatever camera you buy the first step in getting high quality images is the lens!
You will probably be delighted with any of the 3 cameras but I would suggest you get the glass first and then see which camera you can afford. Incidentally ditch the Sigma 50-500 and get a Canon 400 F5.6 L (new or used) - better lens. I don't bother with long Zoom lenses as even my 800mm is only VERY rarely too long.


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## 3kramd5 (May 10, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> but anyway he said because the 5dm3 is not a sports camera. Wont give me the 10fps, is rugged but not as much since I told him some games are in the rain and i mean down pour.



If you shoot in downpours, consider lenses which are environmentally sealed.


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## sagittariansrock (May 10, 2014)

3kramd5 said:


> TeleFragger said:
> 
> 
> > but anyway he said because the 5dm3 is not a sports camera. Wont give me the 10fps, is rugged but not as much since I told him some games are in the rain and i mean down pour.
> ...



Or a rain sleeve.


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## Steve (May 10, 2014)

Geez, you guys and your 5DIII's : No one who wants to shoot sports primarily is ever going to be satisfied with a 5DIII. You need the high frame rate to maximize the chance to get the right shots - intense facial expressions, ball just leaving the hand, two faces and that sense of conflict and emotion, etc. that you can't get with proper timing alone. This is literally what the 1 series was designed for and y'all are telling him its not the right camera?

My advice to you Fragger is to listen to your friend at work and go for the 1DIV. I have one, I shoot sports and wildlife, it rules. The 1DX is amazing and I'd trade up for it in a heartbeat if I had the money but to get the most out of that body would mean spending five figures on lenses as well. For the money you're looking at getting I'd go for the 1DIV, a used v1 300mm or 400mm f2.8 IS and a good monopod and be absolutely blown away shooting sports. You'll probably even have a good chunk left over to take the wife out somewhere nice. If you get really really into sports shooting, like start making money at it or whatever, you can always upgrade to the 1DX later on.


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## BL (May 10, 2014)

On the other hand, you have the money set aside for the 1DX (pending sale of the truck).

Just do it man. Life is too short. ;D


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## johninsanantonio (May 10, 2014)

I went from a 7D to a 5D3 and although I've never held a 1DX I'd say save your money for fast lens's and get the 5D3. Your gonna have a big enough learning curve as it is. I went from a Rebel XTi to a t2i to a 7D then the 5D3. I am still blown away at how much better the 5d3 is compared to my 7D. I sold all of me Lens's when I did my last upgrade and am slowly upgrading as funds allow. Currently I own a EF 24-105mm L and a EF 17-40mm L. My next lens is gonna be the EF 70-200 L IS and then the 100mm L macro. As far as action shots go my wife use to take pictures of me jumping out of C130's and C17's using my old Rebel Xti and a dirt cheap tamron zoom which is light years away from what I own now. I'll attach a couple pics. Oh and I'll also add a pic of my '14 2SS.


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## johninsanantonio (May 10, 2014)

Now my 2SS


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## johninsanantonio (May 10, 2014)

Just for accuracy I'll attach a macro that I took with my old 7D and a EF 100mm macro non L. The detail is stunning.


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## johninsanantonio (May 10, 2014)

I'll also add a pic I shot with my 5D3 at iso 25600 and my EF 24-105mm L. The clarity at that iso still amazes me. I had to shrink the pic down just a bit so I could attach it.


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## 3kramd5 (May 10, 2014)

Steve said:


> Geez, you guys and your 5DIII's : No one who wants to shoot sports primarily is ever going to be satisfied with a 5DIII. You need the high frame rate to maximize the chance to get the right shots - intense facial expressions, ball just leaving the hand, two faces and that sense of conflict and emotion, etc. that you can't get with proper timing alone. This is literally what the 1 series was designed for and y'all are telling him its not the right camera?



Because a body is only half (or less) of the equation. If it were a "I want to buy a 1Dx and several series 2 L lenses, should I," nobody would likely dissuade him.


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## sagittariansrock (May 10, 2014)

3kramd5 said:


> Steve said:
> 
> 
> > Geez, you guys and your 5DIII's : No one who wants to shoot sports primarily is ever going to be satisfied with a 5DIII. You need the high frame rate to maximize the chance to get the right shots - intense facial expressions, ball just leaving the hand, two faces and that sense of conflict and emotion, etc. that you can't get with proper timing alone. This is literally what the 1 series was designed for and y'all are telling him its not the right camera?
> ...



Sometimes one wants what one wants. It's not always about the features, but also the person using it. 
A sedan probably would be sufficient for his commute, and be more economical (as I remember him saying about the gas mileage)- but he went for the truck. And there's nothing wrong with it- his money, his choice. 
I think TF wants a 1-D body. Now the 1D X, that's a bit much. But 1DIV is not much worse or much more expensive than the 5DIII, and it will give him all the 1-series advantages, which are considerable.
My 2c.


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## 3kramd5 (May 10, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Steve said:
> ...



Perhaps it comes down to format. If the OP wants full frame, the 5d3 suits with room in the budget for appropriate glass. If he wants a crop, the 1d4 suits with room in the budget for appropriate glass. Alternatively, he could grab a 1Dx and some less than optimal lenses which he can eventually replace. 

In any case, I agree. It's his money. I know how I'd spend it, but it isn't my decision.


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## David_in_Seattle (May 10, 2014)

For my day job I shoot with a 5Dmk3 (mostly for video or landscape photos) and a 1DX (my go to camera for any action/sports/nature shot).

Previously, I had a 1Dmk3 (the only truly bad 1D camera for its intended purpose) then a mk4 (fixed all the mk3's issues.

For my personal stuff, I shoot with a 60D and 70D.

To answer your post:

If all goes well then you'll have $7 to $8k in camera funds.

If you can find a 1dmk4 in good shape (they're no longer in production) for under $3500 then go for it. It's AF system is awesome and I actually like the 1.3 crop factor for shooting sports on a super tele. Compared to your Rebel T2i (also my first DSLR) it's a huge upgrade and a steep learning curve, but well worth the price. It's also at least 1 1/2 stops better than the T2i in high iso and dynamic range. Though 10fps will be a blessing and a curse...yes, you'll get the shot...but you'll have to sort through 3 times as many images to find it.

If you can't find a 1dmk4 for under $3500, then you can either wait for the 7Dmk2 or opt for the 5Dmk3. No, don't go for the 1DX. It'd kill your budget and putting inferior glass on it will negatively impact the AF performance and image quality. If you've got the time to wait for a 7Dmk2 announcement (most likely this year), then I'd hold out for it. If not, the 5Dmk3 is still a good option.

As for glass: I strongly recommend getting the Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS v1 OR v2. I have both and to be honest, the v1 is still very much capable. If the v1 was a 9/10 then the v2 is a 9.5/10. Reason for going with this lens instead of a third party is because the AF system in combo with the high burst rate will ensure your images have a better keeper rate. I've used the Tamron 70-200 along with Sigma's version and noticed a significant drop in my keeper rate vs the Canons. 8/10 shots from the Canon versions while 3-4/10 shots for both the Tamron and Sigma while shooting a local hip hop break dance competition with bad lighting and fast movement...something similar that you can expect in a night sports event.

If you need the ultra tele focal length then consider buying a 1.4 or 2.0 tele converter for your 70-200. It will lose a stop or two depending on which one you use, but you'll still have the AF advantage. If you really get into shooting sports then save up for the 300 or 400 super teles...trust me, they're both worlds apart from any third party lens (and I've used a lot because my employer receives a lot of pre production glass from manufacturers).


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## Steve (May 10, 2014)

3kramd5 said:


> Because a body is only half (or less) of the equation. If it were a "I want to buy a 1Dx and several series 2 L lenses, should I," nobody would likely dissuade him.



Right, but the question was between the 1DIV and 1DX, not the 1DX and every other camera made. Dude wants a camera for sports, not weddings. The 5DIII, while a very nice camera, is inappropriate for the type of shooting he wants to do. What's hard about this concept? He wants a sports car and you're all telling him to buy an SUV.


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## BL (May 10, 2014)

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/cameras/canon-eos-1dx

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/cameras/canon-eos-1d-mark-iv

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/cameras/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii

done and done. let us know how it goes!


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## TeleFragger (May 11, 2014)

u guys are funny... i like that... 

on my current beer state i will try and say something.. will see if it makes sense tomorrow..

nice car.. not a zl1... 
cat.. nice
coin.. cmon how far do u get with a penny?>???

anyway.. I could use an xti to do those... anyone can expose to the levels of stationary...

my biggest thing is my t2i COULD do what i need with glass.. so yes I WANT a new camera.. bought the t2i in 2009... now... side note kid i think backed out. I tried txting him and i got a recipient is not accepting txt... I am an android person but my wife said u can do that on an iphone so he is blocking me.. no biggie..

so with that... no new camera... next march is bonus time and i WANT a new camera again..


so with that... my WANt is because I HATE my picss as I think they suck with the t2i..

now forget the t2i;s capabilities... now and then I turn it on... zoom in.. auto fucus and were good... go to take a pic an no go.. camera wont take a pic... remove batteries sit for an hr (what i found works) and im good to go...
that SUX.. camera has an issue...

for what i do as not paid my pics are ok.. even blurry people love em... thanks to iphone...

I want and can not do 1/2000 iso 100 pics with my t2i indoors for MMA or night street hockey. We just registered the kids for hockey so more pics to come. we will see...


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## johninsanantonio (May 11, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> u guys are funny... i like that...
> 
> on my current beer state i will try and say something.. will see if it makes sense tomorrow..
> 
> ...



First of all I'm a retired Soldier and can't afford a ZL1. Besides I'm completely satisfied with 400HP.

Second the penny and the cat were shot with my 7d and 5D3. 

And third The jump pics on the previous message were shot with an XTi. To put that into perspective we jumped at 800 feet and from where she was standing I'd guesstimate between 2000-3000 meters away from the plane. Airspeed is 125 knots which equals 144 MPH rounding up. The jumpers exit the aircraft at about 90 miles an hour until their shoot deploys which slows them down to 23 feet a second. Go back and take a second look at those pics with this in mind and you may have a different perspective.


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## sagittariansrock (May 11, 2014)

johninsanantonio said:


> And third The jump pics on the previous message were shot with an XTi. To put that into perspective we jumped at 800 feet and from where she was standing I'd guesstimate between 2000-3000 meters away from the plane. Airspeed is 125 knots which equals 144 MPH rounding up. The jumpers exit the aircraft at about 90 miles an hour until their shoot deploys which slows them down to 23 feet a second. Go back and take a second look at those pics with this in mind and you may have a different perspective.



I had a different perspective as soon as I read the phrase "we jumped".
Hats off...


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## johninsanantonio (May 11, 2014)

I was fortunate to have served with IMHO one of the best Airborne regiments in army. the 1st and 2nd Battalion 504th which is 1st brigade in the 82nd. We made history twice be being the 1st in for the Baghdad Surge in Jan 07 with 5 days notice and again being the 1st advise and assist Battalion in Fallujah in 2009. I served as a Combat medic. that was my 2nd and 3rd Iraq deployments. Whenever possible I always had a camera with me. Just a Canon Powershot but I got some pretty good shots from that. During my first deployment I had a Nikon Coolpix which fell apart after a couple months of usage. I still own the Powershot which survived 27 months in the desart and still works perfectly after everything it's been through. I'll hyperlink my youtube video that my wife shot of one of my last jumps before I left the 82nd that was taken with our VIXIA HFR21. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBIU4cBla2w


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## 3kramd5 (May 11, 2014)

Steve said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Because a body is only half (or less) of the equation. If it were a "I want to buy a 1Dx and several series 2 L lenses, should I," nobody would likely dissuade him.
> ...



I'm not telling him to buy anything, I'm merely suggesting that a 1Dx without matching quality lenses is like buying the Ferrari to tow the boat with.

I like when people answer gear questions with perhaps unvisited considerations. If this forum were merely an exercise in multiple choice, it would be far less valuable. 

But fine, all else being equal, 1Dx hands down.


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## TeleFragger (May 17, 2014)

thanks guys... been gone for a bit. kids keeping me busy.wife just had gllbladder removed yesterday so im on low sleep. kid backed out i guess no word. i have an older guy interested with this comment...

Your not bothering me. Just don't sell it I have the cash and I will come buy it this week. Obviously after you get the carb. Trust me I will send pics t o you over time. It won't be sitting. My buddies are certified ASE techs and we take care of shit. She'll be in great hands and used for what she was intended

so with that im back on track.
My big thing is I dont want to buy something and think I should have gotten something else. Also dont want to buy a 1dx and in 6 months drops 2000 because mark 2 comes out.

still 5dm3 maybe suitable and may get one in the future.... for now i wqnt a 1d series. guy at work said the 1d series feels so nice as he has a 1dm2 and 5dm3...

i know there will be a huge improvement from a t2i to either 1dx or 1dm4. I am reading so many people say they had the mark 4 and got a 1dx now mark4 sits....

1dm4 is discontinued so tough to buy due to that....

I still dont know what I want... undecided...when i have cash in hand.... will b easier but should be one more week. more to ponder...


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## sagittariansrock (May 18, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> thanks guys... been gone for a bit. kids keeping me busy.wife just had gllbladder removed yesterday so im on low sleep. kid backed out i guess no word. i have an older guy interested with this comment...
> 
> Your not bothering me. Just don't sell it I have the cash and I will come buy it this week. Obviously after you get the carb. Trust me I will send pics t o you over time. It won't be sitting. My buddies are certified ASE techs and we take care of S___. She'll be in great hands and used for what she was intended
> 
> ...




I notice that in spite of all the very helpful advice and suggestions on this thread you are basically at square one.
To summarize, there are a bunch of people suggesting the very sensible 5DIII, but you want a 1D body, and I respect that. So it is 1D IV vs 1D X as you originally asked.

You won't see anyone on this thread advise you to buy a 1D X with your existing lenses. So if you are looking for justification to go for the 1D X, you should probably look elsewhere. If you want justification for 1D IV, well, you have some very good advice right here.

Also, I think you should just go to a shop and play with your two options, or better still, rent the one you think most likely. I'd really worry about myself if I decided to drop 6K on something I have never tried.

At the end of the day, both are good cameras, so why worry your head. Just buy what your heart desires and you will be happy with it. Good luck.


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## wickidwombat (May 18, 2014)

I see a couple of options

with sports in mind I have a question though is it indoor and outdoor sports or just outdoor or just indoor?

I think you could probably get a decent 1Dmk4 for $3k leaving you with $5k for glass

in this case i'd look at a couple of glass options
1) sigma 120-300 f2.8OS $3.5k this leaves you with $1.5k to look at some other nice glass maybe a used canon 135 f2L and a tamron 24-70 VC

2) tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC, tamron 70-200 f2.8 VC and tamron 150-600 VC plus you will still have some change maybe get the sigma 50 f1.4 art

3) go for the older sigma 120-300 f2.8 which is supposed to be optically the same as the new S version but is only $2k
leaving you with 3k still for more glass

or 

get the 1Dx and get the tamron 150-600 and a canon 135 f2L
If i was in your position and was looking at sports mostly this is what i would do
I think the AF system upgrade of the 61 point system is worth it and get more glass later

while the 1D4 is good its getting old now and you can only get second hand with no warranty so you have to consider that too but with the 1D4 choice i would go with my option 2 and sell the 24-105 and other lenses and maybe look at the new 16-35 f4L IS as UWA are great for environment and things like team shots also the 16-35 range on 1.3 crop is more like 20-48mm which is a really nice walk around range


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## TeleFragger (May 18, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> You won't see anyone on this thread advise you to buy a 1D X with your existing lenses. So if you are looking for justification to go for the 1D X, you should probably look elsewhere.
> 
> At the end of the day, both are good cameras, so why worry your head. Just buy what your heart desires and you will be happy with it. Good luck.




I hear ya. I usually dont worry about others opinions as if I want something I buy it... as for test driving... if it does what I need I adapt to my tools.... just me...



wickidwombat said:


> I see a couple of options
> 
> with sports in mind I have a question though is it indoor and outdoor sports or just outdoor or just indoor?
> 
> ...



to answer your first question...
indoor - MMA both 7yr and 14yr old do Mixed Artial Arts
outdoor - both do street hockey and travel soccer.

The biggest issue I have with the 1dm4 is just what you said... 3k for a camera with no warranty. tough to vouch for... yes 1dx is considerably more but warrantied.

tamron 150-600 I see would be nice on either but 150 is not short enough. I have used my 55-250 and while on a crop 55 made me lean back so 150 would miss that shot in outdoor soccer. 600 would be nice... I have leaned towards wanting the sigma 50-500 for a compromise and I understand the issues with it.


side thing I didnt mention... If I do not use all the money leftovers will somehow trickle into the bill fund. while I have thecoppertunity I want to look at my best options. I know glass b4 body but some bodies make a difference eventually in certain situations.

I have always lusted the 1dx and can get some glass now and slowly add what I need. I sell hobbies to fund hobbies...

while people look at the price of 5dm3 / 1dm4 / 1dx and know value... at the end if wife gets mad im spending all the money on camera gear... she dont care how much each piece is. she just knows guy is giving me $7k and im spending it all. sell my winch for $1000-$1250 and that will purchase another lens.


it took me a lomg time to ebay up hobbies and get the gear I have now (2009) so I need to make the wise decision because after this purchase I wont be buying again until like 2020 or longer.

thanks for sticking with me trying to help and not getting frustrated....
in 1 week with cash in hand im gonna post up what will be ordered....


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## sagittariansrock (May 18, 2014)

TeleFragger said:


> The biggest issue I have with the 1dm4 is just what you said... 3k for a camera with no warranty. tough to vouch for... yes 1dx is considerably more but warrantied.



If this is the ONLY issue, then you might want to keep checking KEH for used 1D IV bodies. They offer a 6-month warranty and KEH quality control is solid.



TeleFragger said:


> I have always lusted the 1dx and can get some glass now and slowly add what I need. I sell hobbies to fund hobbies...



My 2 cents: If I have my heart set on something, and end up settling for less, the regret is almost never worth it.
So if I do like something so much, then I either get it or wait until I can do so.


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## wickidwombat (May 18, 2014)

for MMA really I think the best lens here is the Canon 135 f2L is light fast with fast accurate AF and has good reach obviously no zoom though, if you can get in closer I think the 24-70 canon mk2 (too expensive but awesome) or the tamron 24-70 2.8 VC (check dustin's review in the review section).

honestly take my advice on the long lens forget the sigma 50-500 compared to the tamron 150-600 the tamron kills it in both optics and AF performance. the only thing the sigma has is poanning mode IS and bigger range but your 24-105 covers the bottom end anyway.

look at what your specifics are indoors MMA - THE lens here is the 135 f2L on a 1Dx it will be pure magic there is nothing in your budget that will even come close to this combo i bought my 2 year old used 135 f2L for $700 to give you an idea of saving some bucks with good quality used glass

Honestly after you have elaborated
sell all your current gear to add funds
Buy a 1Dx
Buy a canon 135 f2L
buy a tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC

Consider carfully how much funding remains and look at your longer lens options

se if you can squeeze in a $3500 sigma 120-300 f2.8 OS SPORT or the older $2000 sigma 120-300 f2.8 OS
this would serve you better than the 70-200 offerings IMO

hope that helps, that's just what I would do in your position and knowing what I know now with the gear I have now


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## bdunbar79 (May 18, 2014)

I have to disagree with the Tamron 24-70 lens. The AI Servo tracking on that, even on a 1Dx, absolutely sucked. It misses way too much. If sports/action is his thing, this is going to be a very disappointing purchase.


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## TeleFragger (May 18, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> honestly take my advice on the long lens forget the sigma 50-500 compared to the tamron 150-600 the tamron kills it in both optics and AF performance. the only thing the sigma has is poanning mode IS and bigger range but your 24-105 covers the bottom end anyway.
> 
> look at what your specifics are indoors MMA - THE lens here is the 135 f2L on a 1Dx it will be pure magic there is nothing in your budget that will even come close to this combo i bought my 2 year old used 135 f2L for $700 to give you an idea of saving some bucks with good quality used glass.




im allowed on the matt for belt testing. i find a corner from my son and go. my 85 on my crop is 136mm on a ff and no way usabe as im not sitting on the seats but in close.... 

my 50 on crop is 80mm on ff and is way better but I do feel my 24-105 is the range for MMA... albeit maybe not the best lens for it @f4 but it is the range that works... so not sure yet on what to do...

i understand the 50-600 maybe better but like said sacrifices are understood. since this is kids sports and my kids I dont have time to switch to 24-105 when kids are running down the field... heck.. on a FF 500 wont be much more reach than what i have now with my 55-250 on a 1.6 crop however a 2x teleconverter is now 100-1000 and will reach way farther.

we will see how it goes with cash... i want the 1dx but practicality is leaning me back to 1dm4...
I also want to renew my MMA classes and can take $1k of the $7k for 1 year thus giving me $6k budget... 

however if I go to do a paid gig as im hoping to do (against wifes will so not telling her yet) and if it goes how I hope.. then maybe a 1dx in my future... with 1d4 as a backup or even a 5dm3 to which maybe well better suited for MMA....


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## wickidwombat (May 19, 2014)

Seriously you think you can use a 2x tc in a sigma 50-500? Wtf?
This statement alone indicates a 1dx might be more than you can handle right now
Besides the fact that even on a 1dx it will be manual focus only and this useless for sport the image quality will be abominable.
Even the 5d mk3 sound like it's out of your league
My last piece of advice before leaving this thread since you really don't want to listen to our advice would be forget the 1dx 
Get a 5d mk3 and a 1dmk4 
If you have access that close to the mma if go with the 16-35 f2.8 or 24-70 II from canon

Lenses buy what you want then When you realize you have wasted your money come back and make a thread about why the lenses don't work on your expensive cameras.


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## TeleFragger (May 19, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> Seriously you think you can use a 2x tc in a sigma 50-500? Wtf?
> This statement alone indicates a 1dx might be more than you can handle right now
> Besides the fact that even on a 1dx it will be manual focus only and this useless for sport the image quality will be abominable.
> Even the 5d mk3 sound like it's out of your league
> ...




hmmm ok... think someone busted a blood vessel...

I am going possibly the 1dm4 if I can have one at a good price... the 5dm3 is reachable as it is close to the same price.. my problem is I feel.. and that is me.. that the 5dm3 is like the nikon d610... yes FF... yes great low light.. yes will do sports.. both not 10fps and all... 

I get the comment on the 50-500... yes it isnt a great lens... i took pics today.. yes sneakerzoom.. setup yourself at the spot you want to shoot from... so ideal is 70-200 2.8 IS II and only shoot what comes in your proximity.. with understanding of cropping some... I have a friend with the 50-500 so will most likely borrow his to see how crappy this lens is.... I want something with short and long range... yes and maybe it will loose some IQ... fine..
coming from my t2i that I am struggling to keep working right any camera will do better. I also understand it is not the gear that makes the pics.. it is the photographer..
today I was shooting my t2i / 55-250 and today my camera decided on shutter priority and auto iso (clouds rolling in and out so I chose that) that it would auto to 6400 ONLY... so I had to go manual and shoot... yeah it is ok... 


I am going to go through this entire thread as the only reason the truck is not sold yet is I sold the carburator off of it so I can order a qjet which should be better on emissions... with that now a guy wants it and he is going to drive it home... so im expecting cash in 2 days as tomorrow I get carb and will put it on tomorrow night and if all runs well he will come tues/wed for it... so ordering or want to find a local camera shop with what I want as both of my kids have a soccer tournament next weekend...


so since you seemed very boisterous on your though and a big angry... tell me what would work well for what I would like to accomplish... but on a serious note... 

one pic of my son 00 cropped pic in too... edited on a laptop and non calculated screen.. hope it looks good on your end...

t2i - 55-250


Riggs by TeleFragger / RootBreaker, on Flickr


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## bdunbar79 (May 19, 2014)

This is absolutely just my opinion of course, so please keep that in mind. But in my experiences shooting soccer at the collegiate level you don't have much time switching between two cameras. For instance in football I'll have one camera with a 400 on it and a 2nd camera with a 70-200. I know you're not doing this but it'll bring me to my point. I would suggest that the 1D4 is a great choice. But why don't you go for an intermediate lens, such as the 70-200 f/2.8L II IS or a 300 f/2.8L I IS lens. Save up some money and focus on ONE camera and ONE really good lens and then if action gets too close, just do like I have to do and move back. I was pretty much able to shoot every soccer game with either a 300 or 400 lens on one camera this year. 

Just my opinion. I know it's extra money that you didn't budget in this thread description, but maybe if your son continues to play soccer at higher levels, it would be a good investment.


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