# Here is the Canon Cinema EOS C70



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 29, 2020)

> I have been inundated with Canon Cinema EOS C70 images today, unfortunately, I cannot publish them all. However, the above image is the new cinema camera.
> I have been told by multiple sources that the official announcement for the Canon Cinema EOS C70 will be on September 24, 2020.
> I hope to be able to publish the full specifications sometime this weekend.
> More to come…



Continue reading...


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## analoggrotto (Aug 29, 2020)

Canon says "Game On!"


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## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

Yeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhh BABY!!!!


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## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

Like a black magic meets a zCam thing. Love it


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## Ozarker (Aug 29, 2020)

There's your video camera, boys.


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## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

So you already know what’s what Craig, but Im gonna speculate for the sheer fun. Blackmagic looking body so it has a rear Touch screen built in for DPAF2 touch and menus. Does NOT look to have built in EVF but I expected as much. No problem.


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## BroderLund (Aug 29, 2020)

Looks like two xlr, or mini xlr, inputs on the side and a hdmi output. No sdi. Cold shoe on top. Hope they release some accessories for the cold shoe.


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## Kam (Aug 29, 2020)

Do we know any specs yet?


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 29, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> There's your video camera, boys.


I hope so. Hopefully this will move the story along. R5 + this ( depending on specs) + C300/C500 type cine cam would be a dream, boiiiii.


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## marathonman (Aug 29, 2020)

EOSHD is *******.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 29, 2020)

I like how reserved CRGuy is on this one. Being very careful with the details. I like it. Excited for Canon. Feel that they're a bit more ambitious now than the last few years due to soooo much competition across the board.


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## David Hull (Aug 29, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I wonder if that is what they would have to have done to the R5 to run continuous 8k?


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## derpderp (Aug 29, 2020)

I fully expect that thing to run 12k unlimited recording (based on youtuber expectations)


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Aug 29, 2020)

It's the 1DC Mark II  .....If that handgrip is built in 1d-style then it better:

1. Takes stills (perhaps a mirrorless 1dx III built in?)
2. Have a swivel screen (or titling at minimum)

If so it'll be a gauntlet through-down for a video/stills hybrid. Which would make sense that it moved from the stills to Cinema line, as the necessary venting and button layout is dictated more by video need than photo.

However, it doesn't look like there's an EVF....which puts a serious damper on any possible stills capability. So if this is only video capable, I'm a bit bummed they just didn't shrink down the C100 body 20% or so....that EVF + removal side grip + swivel/tilt screen is such a versatile package.


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## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

I can’t fully tell, but it just might look hideous. In any case it’s not so much about the looks as the specs. I’m liking the Eos R5 more that the overheat nonsense has been relaxed. Granted I believe Canon could do better as the camera really does not overheat.
I’m wondering if this is the body that is supposed to have the C300 Mk3 sensor?


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 29, 2020)

this is all i wanted. Also the ronin s 2 is coming.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 29, 2020)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> It's the 1DC Mark II  .....If that handgrip is built in 1d-style then it better:
> 
> 1. Takes stills (perhaps a mirrorless 1dx III built in?)
> 2. Have a swivel screen (or titling at minimum)
> ...


the c line is terrible on the 1 arm gimbals. they are hard to balance and become super heavy over time. plus u have to break them down to fit them on.


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## jtdiddy (Aug 29, 2020)

hmm, if this baby can also take stills...


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 29, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> the c line is terrible on the 1 arm gimbals. they are hard to balance and become super heavy over time. plus u have to break them down to fit them on.


We got pretty quick with setup/breakdown with the C300MKII on a gimbal. Played with the Mark III and it was much faster to setup. Guess it just depends on your build.


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## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

Looking back through the article it seems this is the one that will have the DGO sensor. No internal raw, but 10 bit 422 and clog2/3. That’s works fine for me. Might be the perfect compromise. I resisted the C300mk3 because of the size. This would be seemingly perfect.


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## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> It's the 1DC Mark II  .....If that handgrip is built in 1d-style then it better:
> 
> 1. Takes stills (perhaps a mirrorless 1dx III built in?)
> 2. Have a swivel screen (or titling at minimum)
> ...


Zero stills. Its the C-300-3 in a small body


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## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

jtdiddy said:


> hmm, if this baby can also take stills...


Zero stills. Zero. It’s a Cinema Line. 8.8MP DGISO sensor of the C300-3


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## The3o5FlyGuy (Aug 29, 2020)

No way will they get rid of the “over heating” timer in the R5 and R6 now


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## analoggrotto (Aug 29, 2020)

The3o5FlyGuy said:


> No way will they get rid of the “over heating” timer in the R5 and R6 now


yup


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## slclick (Aug 29, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Zero stills. Zero. It’s a Cinema Line. 8.8MP DGISO sensor of the C300-3


So it's ok to go one way but not the other? See that's the rub. You can start on a 'Stills Only Body' wishlist thread and all the forum comes to bash your balls. But it's perfectly understandable for this body to take zero stills. And like all things folx come out of the woodwork to explain why you're STILL wrong (me.here.now) Just had to flip it on it's head while I wait for the further Canon innovation pace to create a simplistic camera without teeth gnashing, firmware fixes needed prior to launch and being overtly polarizing. (A stills oriented RF body with only a smidge of video like the 5D3)


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## HotPixels (Aug 29, 2020)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> It's the 1DC Mark II  .....If that handgrip is built in 1d-style then it better:
> 
> 1. Takes stills (perhaps a mirrorless 1dx III built in?)
> 2. Have a swivel screen (or titling at minimum)
> ...


That's an interesting observation...because, of course, the 1DC was a cinema camera based on the pro 1DX body. If we continue this analogy, and go in the opposite direction, will the expected mirrorless pro body, the R1, let's call it, be more like this body in shape and size? Is this more of a preview of what's to come for the expected R1?


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## sanj (Aug 29, 2020)

So much excitement without knowing specs. Boys will be boys!!!!


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## Respinder (Aug 29, 2020)

The3o5FlyGuy said:


> No way will they get rid of the “over heating” timer in the R5 and R6 now


This is exactly what I was worried about and now this is proof - Canon really seems to be going hard on the path to crippling their products to protect other lines. For folks like me who desire a proper hybrid - this is not a solution - just another problem.


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## H. Jones (Aug 29, 2020)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> It's the 1DC Mark II  .....If that handgrip is built in 1d-style then it better:
> 
> 1. Takes stills (perhaps a mirrorless 1dx III built in?)
> 2. Have a swivel screen (or titling at minimum)
> ...






Increased the exposure a bit here to see where the lines were by the hand grip. Based off the shadows and highlights I circled, this definitely looks more like the rotating hand-grip set-up that the XC-15 had, so the next question is if it is removable.


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## analoggrotto (Aug 29, 2020)

Respinder said:


> This is exactly what I was worried about and now this is proof - Canon really seems to be going hard on the path to crippling their products to protect other lines. For folks like me who desire a proper hybrid - this is not a solution - just another problem.



FW 1.1.0 seems to alleviate this. Check out froknowsphoto, the improvements might be of use.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 29, 2020)

Black or dark blue body? It'll absorb all the heat and overheat. Meh.


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## SteveC (Aug 29, 2020)

Respinder said:


> This is exactly what I was worried about and now this is proof - Canon really seems to be going hard on the path to crippling their products to protect other lines. For folks like me who desire a proper hybrid - this is not a solution - just another problem.



Have you ever taken a class in logic? Never mind, I know you haven't.

Coming out with a video camera doesn't prove that they crippled a hybrid camera.


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## Aregal (Aug 29, 2020)

Respinder said:


> This is exactly what I was worried about and now this is proof - Canon really seems to be going hard on the path to crippling their products to protect other lines. For folks like me who desire a proper hybrid - this is not a solution - just another problem.


Have you used an R5? It worked like a champ covering Hurricane Laura’s aftermath yesterday in the Texas heat and humidity; firmware v1.0.0; no overheating or temperature warning.


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## -pekr- (Aug 29, 2020)

Hmm, mixture of some XC-10 and some Blackmagic stuff. I am worried though, as the main question is - whom is the camera for? It should be a Panasonic or Sony A7SIII competitor. But that means - EVF, that also means an IBIS. If Canon made it just a C line like, and it will have no IBIS, then it is a different product for different ppl and as an occassional videographer for weddings, there is a zero chance I would get one, if IBIS is missing. Simple as that.


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## landon (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Hmm, mixture of some XC-10 and some Blackmagic stuff. I am worried though, as the main question is - whom is the camera for? It should be a Panasonic or Sony A7SIII competitor. But that means - EVF, that also means an IBIS. If Canon made it just a C line like, and it will have no IBIS, then it is a different product for different ppl and as an occassional videographer for weddings, there is a zero chance I would get one, if IBIS is missing. Simple as that.


The next R5 firmware will have lower bit rate, 4K60p and 4K120p will be more reliable for wedding hybrid.


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## nolifedigital (Aug 29, 2020)

This is definitely exciting. The future of the RF mount looks quite interesting. Can't wait to see what the "C50" brings. I hope both cameras overheat, but only in 720p to trigger the unstable


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## landon (Aug 29, 2020)

nolifedigital said:


> This is definitely exciting. The future of the RF mount looks quite interesting. Can't wait to see what the "C50" brings. I hope both cameras overheat, but only in 720p to trigger the unstable


Hope the C50 will have 4K120p and 1080-240p.


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## -pekr- (Aug 29, 2020)

landon said:


> The next R5 firmware will have lower bit rate, 4K60p and 4K120p will be more reliable for wedding hybrid.



We will get R5 instead of our 5DIV in spring of next year and it is going to be OK for us stills shooters, with occassional video short shots for a slideshow slow-mo purposes. So we are already sold. But not sure I would use R5 for the all-day video shoot. Any cinema camera without an IBIS, is absolutly not an answer, so once again - wonder what Canon target buyers has Canon in mind. Film makers can get C100 - C700, so who's Canon trying to attract here?


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## Stanly (Aug 29, 2020)

The form factor seems to be a good balance of hybrid camera leaning towards video! Fingers crossed for it to have IBIS, full frame sensor, good screen and capability to capture RAW stills at decent resolution (over 20MP).


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## landon (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> We will get R5 instead of our 5DIV in spring of next year and it is going to be OK for us stills shooters, with occassional video short shots for a slideshow slow-mo purposes. So we are already sold. But not sure I would use R5 for the all-day video shoot. Any cinema camera without an IBIS, is absolutly not an answer, so once again - wonder what Canon target buyers has Canon in mind. Film makers can get C100 - C700, so who's Canon trying to attract here?


RF lens user. Slowly coaxing EF users to migrate.


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## nolifedigital (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> We will get R5 instead of our 5DIV in spring of next year and it is going to be OK for us stills shooters, with occassional video short shots for a slideshow slow-mo purposes. So we are already sold. But not sure I would use R5 for the all-day video shoot. Any cinema camera without an IBIS, is absolutly not an answer, so once again - wonder what Canon target buyers has Canon in mind. Film makers can get C100 - C700, so who's Canon trying to attract here?



Cine's historically never have IBIS. Don't expect these to have it. Also I think they're targeted to anyone who wants an RF mount cine body (things like XLR, no overheating, massive array of recording modes/codecs, CLOG 2-3, internal ND, etc). I agree though, the gap between what's offered in a small mirrorless body and cine's is getting smaller.


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## masterpix (Aug 29, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Now everyone will start with "but this vidoe camera can't take 45MP stills and...."


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 29, 2020)

Remove the covers and it's an R5 with a fan 

With crippled stills lol


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## -pekr- (Aug 29, 2020)

nolifedigital said:


> Cine's historically never have IBIS. Don't expect these to have it. Also I think they're targeted to anyone who wants an RF mount cine body (things like XLR, no overheating, massive array of recording modes/codecs, CLOG 2-3, internal ND, etc). I agree though, the gap between what's offered in a small mirrorless body and cine's is getting smaller.



Well, that's my worry. Ppl using e.g. C300 III will wait for just C300 IV having an RF mount. Why should they opt for C50 or C70? Maybe as a B roll cameras? So - if Canon thinks, that C50 or C70 would attract professional wedding shooters, putting no IBIS there is a fatal mistake. They don't need to put stills mode there, as if they really want to compete to the likes of an A7SIII, they need perfect low-light performance, hence even a lower resolution than the R6's 20mpx, but IBIS has to be there. My bet is, that IBIS is going to be missing, which will immediately cut-off many potential buyers. That's why I ask about the market target for such cameras.


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> That's an interesting observation...because, of course, the 1DC was a cinema camera based on the pro 1DX body. If we continue this analogy, and go in the opposite direction, will the expected mirrorless pro body, the R1, let's call it, be more like this body in shape and size? Is this more of a preview of what's to come for the expected R1?



isnt the r5 the r1 ? How can you get more pro than the r5 (for stills)?


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## fingerstein (Aug 29, 2020)

Let's see the price and the cripple hammer.


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

Is this safe To say that this is the A7SIII killer (that I’ve been desperately waiting for to stop me from switching to Sony ? 
the way things unfold in my fantasy: r5 for everyday and travel, c70 for more professional filming needs such as short films. One system, all my needs covered.


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## alexvaltchev (Aug 29, 2020)

Can it take photos? How many megapixels is it?


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## Joules (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> isnt the r5 the r1 ? How can you get more pro than the r5 (for stills)?


Larger grip, larger battery, vertical grip, matching card slots, better weather sealing, more FPS (1DX III already does 20 mechanical, vs 12 on the R5), the additional 1-series software configuration options, unlimited video options,... 

The 1 series is a very niche type of camera. There are multiple bodies in the Canon lineup that offer more capabilities, but in a very different package. I think that will become even more true now that we'll see top notch AF across multiple price points.


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## edoorn (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Well, that's my worry. Ppl using e.g. C300 III will wait for just C300 IV having an RF mount. Why should they opt for C50 or C70? Maybe as a B roll cameras? So - if Canon thinks, that C50 or C70 would attract professional wedding shooters, putting no IBIS there is a fatal mistake. They don't need to put stills mode there, as if they really want to compete to the likes of an A7SIII, they need perfect low-light performance, hence even a lower resolution than the R6's 20mpx, but IBIS has to be there. My bet is, that IBIS is going to be missing, which will immediately cut-off many potential buyers. That's why I ask about the market target for such cameras.



doesn’t an rf lens using IS migitates this mostly?


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

My wishlist for this camera: 

4K24HQ equivalent with 10bit 422 and clog3 with no recording limit
13+ stops of real dynamic range 
Equal or better low light as the R5

so far I think it’ll get all of it, and final point on my list:

ibis.

that’s where I’m afraid.

If I may be greedy, I’d also ask for a tilt up screen like on the a7iii. I Loathe flip screens.
Come canon.


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## landon (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Well, that's my worry. Ppl using e.g. C300 III will wait for just C300 IV having an RF mount. Why should they opt for C50 or C70? Maybe as a B roll cameras? So - if Canon thinks, that C50 or C70 would attract professional wedding shooters, putting no IBIS there is a fatal mistake. They don't need to put stills mode there, as if they really want to compete to the likes of an A7SIII, they need perfect low-light performance, hence even a lower resolution than the R6's 20mpx, but IBIS has to be there. My bet is, that IBIS is going to be missing, which will immediately cut-off many potential buyers. That's why I ask about the market target for such cameras.


If I have a million dollars and all the time in the world, I wouldn't be buying this camera. But if I'm already in the RF mount and thinking of getting a cinema camera, this C50/70 will do just fine. The RF C200-C500 will be awhile, so EF C200-C500 users can breath a sigh of relief. Canon's 8K cameras will probably be RF mount.


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## syder (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Well, that's my worry. Ppl using e.g. C300 III will wait for just C300 IV having an RF mount. Why should they opt for C50 or C70? Maybe as a B roll cameras? So - if Canon thinks, that C50 or C70 would attract professional wedding shooters, putting no IBIS there is a fatal mistake. They don't need to put stills mode there, as if they really want to compete to the likes of an A7SIII, they need perfect low-light performance, hence even a lower resolution than the R6's 20mpx, but IBIS has to be there. My bet is, that IBIS is going to be missing, which will immediately cut-off many potential buyers. That's why I ask about the market target for such cameras.



Why does IBIS have to be there? 

If you're a videographer you have a decent tripod and a gimbal. Gimbal footage looks a damn sight better than anything handheld with IBIS, and this camera looks like it was made to fly. 

Panasonic didn't bother with IBIS in the GH5s because it isn't considered to be a useful feature for many pro filmmakers or videographers.


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## fingerstein (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Is this safe To say that this is the A7SIII killer (that I’ve been desperately waiting for to stop me from switching to Sony ?
> the way things unfold in my fantasy: r5 for everyday and travel, c70 for more professional filming needs such as short films. One system, all my needs covered.


I don't think so... I feel very frustrated every time when Canon releases a DSLR/hybrid camera. If you think Sony A7SIII uses two types of media: SD cards and CFexpress Type A versus CFexpress type B that Canon uses.... There is already a big difference in price and maybe interoperability with older cameras that you might already own. Sony have this wonderful primes with iris ring. Canon has something similar on RF mount, but you have to send the lens back to Canon Service to make it stepless. Sigma have released some wonderful prime lenses with iris ring for Sony. That iris can make a big difference for me.


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## koenkooi (Aug 29, 2020)

Joules said:


> Larger grip, larger battery, vertical grip, matching card slots, better weather sealing, more FPS (1DX III already does 20 mechanical, vs 12 on the R5), the additional 1-series software configuration options, unlimited video options,...[..]



I was about to say "No, it's limited to 16fps", but that's the mirror  The white paper states _"The mechanical shutter, in fact, can operate at up to 20 fps during Live View operation."_
I wonder how far they can push the EFCS and if they push it to 24fps, would people start demanding it being used for video?


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## Ericsmith (Aug 29, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I like how reserved CRGuy is on this one. Being very careful with the details. I like it. Excited for Canon. Feel that they're a bit more ambitious now than the last few years due to soooo much competition across the board.


Totally agree. Seems to be a lot more maturity around the Canon Rumors site and forum. 

Unlike at sonyalpharumors where the guy posts literally anything he hears. "I think this is 99% untrue, but..." Not to mention the derogatory nature of the guy (using swear words in posts, etc). And then there's the forums... akin to monkeys hurling feces at each other in the wild.


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## Joules (Aug 29, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I was about to say "No, it's limited to 16fps", but that's the mirror  The white paper states _"The mechanical shutter, in fact, can operate at up to 20 fps during Live View operation."_
> I wonder how far they can push the EFCS and if they push it to 24fps, would people start demanding it being used for video?


Yes, the mirror is holding the 1DX III back in some ways.

They definitely have made significant upgrades to their shutter tech. Not only is 20 FPS mechanical really nuts, so are the 300,000 and 500,000 actuation shutter ratings on the R6 and R5. I guess to push the speed further on any of these cameras, they would have to compromise the ratings.

I think shooting "video" with the shutter clicking away constantly would be very annoying. Not to mention that you could only do it for a couple of hours at those speeds before you exceed the shutter rating. 20+ fps is no joke.


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

syder said:


> Why does IBIS have to be there?
> 
> If you're a videographer you have a decent tripod and a gimbal. Gimbal footage looks a damn sight better than anything handheld with IBIS, and this camera looks like it was made to fly.
> 
> Panasonic didn't bother with IBIS in the GH5s because it isn't considered to be a useful feature for many pro filmmakers or videographers.



not everyone likes gimbals. I hate gimbals. They make all your videos look like weddings in my opinion. 
I personally prefer a more handheld organic shooting style. 
but in most cases, I am just a one man set on my professional project and I can’t bring much more gear than the camera itself so no ibis might give me too jittery footage while ibis smoothens things just enough for my taste. I’ll go even further: I’ve been liking more the ibis on my a7riv than my R5 (for video only of course) because on my r5 it almost looking too “floaty” while on the Sony the footage looks really organic to me. 
hope that makes sense. It makes sense to me at least !


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## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> That's an interesting observation...because, of course, the 1DC was a cinema camera based on the pro 1DX body. If we continue this analogy, and go in the opposite direction, will the expected mirrorless pro body, the R1, let's call it, be more like this body in shape and size? Is this more of a preview of what's to come for the expected R1?


The 1RX is going to look and feel almost exactly like the 1DX. Just like the R5 looks and feels like a 5D.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> not everyone likes gimbals. I hate gimbals. They make all your videos look like weddings in my opinion.
> I personally prefer a more handheld organic shooting style.


And for those that want an organic feel in their moving shots that doesn’t make their viewer seasick is precisely why many people prefer steadicams.


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> And for those that want an organic feel in their moving shots that doesn’t make their viewer seasick is precisely why many people prefer steadicams.



I agree. Steadycams over gimbals any day of the week.
But for my style of documentary, “cinema vérité” shooting, sometimes it’s just easier to have a light and discreet package. A decent ibis often does the trick for me. It’s just about removing the micro jitter.


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## domo_p1000 (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Is this safe To say that this is the A7SIII killer (that I’ve been desperately waiting for to stop me from switching to Sony ?
> the way things unfold in my fantasy: r5 for everyday and travel, c70 for more professional filming needs such as short films. One system, all my needs covered.


I'm impressed to have had to read almost three pages of comments before Sony gets its first obligatory mention!


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## Kam (Aug 29, 2020)

I


syder said:


> Why does IBIS have to be there?
> 
> If you're a videographer you have a decent tripod and a gimbal. Gimbal footage looks a damn sight better than anything handheld with IBIS, and this camera looks like it was made to fly.
> 
> Panasonic didn't bother with IBIS in the GH5s because it isn't considered to be a useful feature for many pro filmmakers or videographers.


The BMPCC4k/6k are the same shape, yet way smaller and they can barely fit on most gimbals, qnd are a huge pain to balance. 
What gimbal is this gonna go on exactly?
I can only think of Zhiyun Crane3S.


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

domo_p1000 said:


> I'm impressed to have had to read almost three pages of comments before Sony gets its first obligatory mention!



Does it bother you that we mention Sony ? Not sure why... 
We come to rumour site to know about future products of a brand. We want to know about their future so we can take educated decision on which system to choose and invest in long term. 
For those of us who still havent made a decision, it's a hard time to choose. With the release of the A7SIII and the R5, we're between a rock and a hard place. 
The R5 is not as good as the A7SIII for video, the A7SIII is not as good as the R5 for photos. It's important to me to know which is the next camera that will come out for each brand to become the right companion for my purchase. 
Ex: The C70 could be the right video companion for my R5 Hybrid camera. Or the A7IV could be the right hybrid companion for my A7SIII video camera... See what I mean ? My point is that I'm still undecided between the two systems. What I know for a fact is that neither the R5 or the A7SIII will be enough for me as a one and only camera. So the next product of the two brands would help me make my decision easier. The C70 would tip the balance in favour Canon I think. If it ticks all the boxes in my Wishlist... Cant wait to get the specs over the weekend !


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

Kam said:


> I
> The BMPCC4k/6k are the same shape, yet way smaller and they can barely fit on most gimbals, qnd are a huge pain to balance.
> What gimbal is this gonna go on exactly?
> I can only think of Zhiyun Crane3S.



I think it's hard in this photo to get a sense of scale. The shape is ugly, but convenient. As for the size, for all we know it could be tiny like a komodo


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## adrian_bacon (Aug 29, 2020)

Looks like the big brother to an XC-10 or 15. I had an XC-10 for a while. A lot of youtubers hated on it, but I found it to be quite good. The only reason why I got rid of it is I couldn't shoot raw in stills mode and the jpeg engine wasn't quite the same as in their EOS line. I so wished Canon would have released an XC with an EF-M mount back then, but an RF mount would also be nice.


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## adrian_bacon (Aug 29, 2020)

marathonman said:


> EOSHD is *******.



The more he's ignored, the louder he screeches and the more vitriolic his flailing becomes. Give it a rest dude... nobody cares that you feel personally injured by Canon.


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## TMHKR (Aug 29, 2020)

Is this, dare I say, the "video R5" everyone's been moaning about? Also, note the huge vent on the side.

Some of the labels I was able to decipher:


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## Kam (Aug 29, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Is this, dare I say, the "video R5" everyone's been moaning about? Also, note the huge vent on the side.
> 
> Some of the labels I was able to decipher:
> 
> View attachment 192504


No. 
Not Full Frame, no IBIS, much larger body.
This is not a video R5. This is a Canon Pocket Cinema.


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## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

Kam said:


> No.
> Not Full Frame, no IBIS, much larger body.
> This is not a video R5. This is a Canon Pocket Cinema.



And how are you so certain it won't have Ibis?
For the rest, I pretty much agree with you.
It also likely won't have stills, so it is not a video centric R5.


----------



## Kam (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> And how are you so certain it won't have Ibis?
> For the rest, I pretty much agree with you.
> It also likely won't have stills, so it is not a video centric R5.



From what I read there hasn't been a cinema cam with IBIS from Canon, and people are ok with that I guess?


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

Kam said:


> From what I read there hasn't been a cinema cam with IBIS from Canon, and people are ok with that I guess?



Ah yes, you're absolutely right. Let's hope then that It will have and EIS like the one found in the EOS R or the C500II


----------



## mpmark (Aug 29, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> There's your video camera, boys.



Dont worry they'll be able to find plenty wrong with it, make sure to tell us every day about it, yet they will buy it and use it.


----------



## mpmark (Aug 29, 2020)

Kam said:


> Do we know any specs yet?



did you even ready what he wrote?


----------



## jam05 (Aug 29, 2020)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> It's the 1DC Mark II  .....If that handgrip is built in 1d-style then it better:
> 
> 1. Takes stills (perhaps a mirrorless 1dx III built in?)
> 2. Have a swivel screen (or titling at minimum)
> ...


EVF accessory..Many owners complained about the evf in the way of their rigs, and would prefer it being removable. Even a tilting removable one GFX style would be nice.


----------



## Steve Dmark2 (Aug 29, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> There's your video camera, boys.


Does it shoot 10 FPS?


----------



## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Is this safe To say that this is the A7SIII killer (that I’ve been desperately waiting for to stop me from switching to Sony ?
> the way things unfold in my fantasy: r5 for everyday and travel, c70 for more professional filming needs such as short films. One system, all my needs covered.


Not sure why people keep comparing this to the Sony A73? That camera is way smaller and lighter... shoots full frame 4K, has extreme low light capabilities etc... 
To me this camera is more targeting something like the Red Komodo 6K.... but with better dynamic range, more flexible package, with reliable AF. I guess we’ll no more soon?


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Not sure why people keep comparing this to the Sony A73? That camera is way smaller and lighter... shoots full frame 4K, has extreme low light capabilities etc...
> To me this camera is more targeting something like the Red Komodo 6K.... but with better dynamic range, more flexible package, with reliable AF. I guess we’ll no more soon?



The reason why we keep comparing it to the a7siii is because the R5 is kind of amazing and better than the a7siii for video, except it's not. So we're hoping canon will "finish the work" by giving up a great portable cine camera (because yes, except for a few details such as VND, the a7siii is resembling a lot a cine camera)


----------



## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Is this, dare I say, the "video R5" everyone's been moaning about? Also, note the huge vent on the side.
> 
> Some of the labels I was able to decipher:
> 
> View attachment 192504


Not with a APS/C sensor it’s not. Also lacks the 45MP sensor, IBIS and 8K. It replaces all the fancy hardware with ports, ND and swivel grip. Also from the picture I cannot discern and hinge that would be necessary for a flip screen? So that is in doubt at this point.
So this begs the question:

Smaller sensor
No 8K
No IBIS
No high resolution super fast readout sensor
$6300? Is the extra money just for ports?


----------



## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> The reason why we keep comparing it to the a7siii is because the R5 is kind of amazing and better than the a7siii for video, except it's not. So we're hoping canon will "finish the work" by giving up a great portable cine camera (because yes, except for a few details such as VND, the a7siii is resembling a lot a cine camera)


Except it’s half the price... and full frame... and if wishes were horses beggars would ride.


----------



## Ripley (Aug 29, 2020)

Announcement day is the first day the Sony A7Siii is supposed to start shipping. Nice one Canon. Now all we need is a Sony FX6 announcement and this will be the year of the best cameras the world can’t yet get their hands on for work that isn’t yet happening.


----------



## StandardLumen (Aug 29, 2020)

I get that this doesn't appear to be a "video R5," but why not? Canon obviously knows how to make a small camera that has extraordinary 8K video quality, so why haven't there been any rumors of them putting that tech in a body like this, where it has the cooling and ports it needs for proper video functionality?


----------



## TMHKR (Aug 29, 2020)

DBounce said:


> $6300? Is the extra money just for ports?


Why not, if the recording is unlimited (i.e. camera is reliable for extended video work)?


----------



## filmmakerken (Aug 29, 2020)

A couple more images at higher resolution would be helpful. A lot can be inferred by the arrangement of the buttons and ports.


----------



## Del Paso (Aug 29, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> There's your video camera, boys.


But I'd like to keep on whining about the R5's video features...


----------



## Twinix (Aug 29, 2020)

Looks like a good enough grip for me - great! Hopefully, for me, it will only get 4K 50p max (100p is also ok), and 10bit CLOG3. Hopefully the R6 will get CLOG3 too. It looks like it can be rigged ok to good with proper XLR, monitor etc also.


----------



## David the street guy (Aug 29, 2020)

This camera can *also* capture stills, but that makes it overheat after a dozen images. Canon is *******…


----------



## slclick (Aug 29, 2020)

David the street guy said:


> This camera can *also* capture stills, but that makes it overheat after a dozen images. Canon is *******…


CID comments are becoming the new Dad jokes. Please, be original. Ugh.


----------



## Czardoom (Aug 29, 2020)

DBounce said:


> ...Granted I believe Canon could do better as the camera really does not overheat.



Yes, the camera does not really overheat. And the Earth is flat and we never landed on the moon. 
Learn some physics. Understand that electronics generate heat. Try to grasp that all FF DSLRs and MILCs have issues with overheating.
Do you seriously think that Canon has devised a way to overcome physics reality. A magic potion perhaps sprinkled on the processor?


----------



## marathonman (Aug 29, 2020)

StandardLumen said:


> I get that this doesn't appear to be a "video R5," but why not? Canon obviously knows how to make a small camera that has extraordinary 8K video quality, so why haven't there been any rumors of them putting that tech in a body like this, where it has the cooling and ports it needs for proper video functionality?


Because they want to put that tech properly in to a C700 and C500 first and charge more money for it. That's fair enough.


----------



## analoggrotto (Aug 29, 2020)

Canon really needs to develop a video grip with the memory banks, wireless, GPS, FDIC, battery, etc to give the same effect as the Atomos and boost the appeal of the R5, make lots of money and develop crazy lenses which send all of us to the gym.


----------



## marathonman (Aug 29, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Yes, the camera does not really overheat. And the Earth is flat and we never landed on the moon.
> Learn some physics. Understand that electronics generate heat. Try to grasp that all FF DSLRs and MILCs have issues with overheating.
> Do you seriously think that Canon has devised a way to overcome physics reality. A magic potion perhaps sprinkled on the processor?



Somewhere in a galaxy not far from here, just six short months ago:

Internet: Canon could never put 8K full frame in to a mirrorless camera. They don't have the technical capabilities to do that. The last time they innovated was when 5d mkii was born.
Canon: Our next 5 series will have 8K and demonstrate what we are capable of.
Internet: (spits coffee on screen) Yeah right. Maybe 8K timelapse mode
Canon: No, 8K video
Internet: Er no, 8K like 15 second movie burst mode then, because you know overheating would happen in such a small body. Do Canon engineers not know anything about physics? That's why refrigerators exist....
Canon: No full 8K video
Internet: Yeah right.... hahaha. It's not possible. So no AF or IBIS then. You won't be able to use the full technologies of the camera/
Canon: No. 8K Full frame, AF and IBIS enabled.
Internet: It's not possible, because you know.... overheating is a thing with technology in such a small package. If it was possible then Sony would have done it.
Canon: Hold our beer.....

Post launch

Internet: I demand a full unconditional apology from Canon. I demand immediately that they give us unlimited 8K full frame video for $4.99 and stop hiding behind this "overheating" scenario to protect their other cameras. I’ve never felt so personally insulted by a camera company as I have by Canon. To me honest behaviour is very important. I recognize that the only person that is perfect is me and people make mistakes. The important thing is to admit that and not to sell us totally unusable technology like this…


----------



## marathonman (Aug 29, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> Is this, dare I say, the "video R5" everyone's been moaning about? Also, note the huge vent on the side.
> 
> Some of the labels I was able to decipher:
> 
> View attachment 192504


Two of the buttons I think you missed are Zebra and WFM. Zebra is below the DISP button. WFM is next to the HDMI.
If I had to guess, I'd say that maybe Peaking is one of the other buttons next to remote and perhaps there is a MAGAN button next to USB that is hidden?


----------



## marathonman (Aug 29, 2020)

Steve Dmark2 said:


> Does it shoot 10 FPS?


24fps post launch with a firmware update ;-)


----------



## marathonman (Aug 29, 2020)

jam05 said:


> EVF accessory..Many owners complained about the evf in the way of their rigs, and would prefer it being removable. Even a tilting removable one GFX style would be nice.


 I wonder whether that hot shoe type ridge / mount at the top of the camera is for the EVF or an Atomos style accessory. Would make it very flexible if you could just slide the EVF on and off when required.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 29, 2020)

masterpix said:


> Now everyone will start with "but this vidoe camera can't take 45MP stills and...."



No. This is serious stuff. It’s VIDEO after all.

I made this same joke in another “video” thread and was told very sternly that the video bro’s were trying to have a ‘serious discussion’ and stills shooter humor wasn’t welcome. I’m thinking ‘video whining has flooded every thread since the dawn of the R5’ but I deleted my little joke and left them to their round table...



I’m sure some video guy will try to stick a grain of rice in this thing somewhere. It’s inevitable.


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 29, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Somewhere in a galaxy not far from here, just six short months ago:
> 
> Internet: Canon could never put 8K full frame in to a mirrorless camera. They don't have the technical capabilities to do that. The last time they innovated was when 5d mkii was born.
> Canon: Our next 5 series will have 8K and demonstrate what we are capable of.
> ...


Standby for protest marches.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 29, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Because they want to put that tech properly in to a C700 and C500 first and charge more money for it. That's fair enough.


I would love a C500 w/ RF mount.


----------



## pbetancourt (Aug 29, 2020)

It will give us 12k for 20 minutes before "overheating". Of course if you want unlimited 12k you'll need to buy a proper cinema camera, not this entry-level one. But there are some very well-know sources that are testing it without the lens attached and they have been able to record unlimited time... so we are waiting for a marketing firmware update.


----------



## pbetancourt (Aug 29, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> There's your video camera, boys.


I would love the hybrid one they promised to us!


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 29, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Standby for protest marches.



I live north of Seattle. I’ve had it. Please. Somebody give these people a job.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> isnt the r5 the r1 ? How can you get more pro than the r5 (for stills)?




Built in grip for an extra $2500.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 29, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I think it's hard in this photo to get a sense of scale. The shape is ugly, but convenient. As for the size, for all we know it could be tiny like a komodo



Traditional button size is a pretty good indicator.


----------



## slclick (Aug 29, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> No. This is serious stuff. It’s VIDEO after all.
> 
> I made this same joke in another “video” thread and was told very sternly that the video bro’s were trying to have a ‘serious discussion’ and stills shooter humor wasn’t welcome. I’m thinking ‘video whining has flooded every thread since the dawn of the R5’ but I deleted my little joke and left them to their round table...
> 
> ...


They really are something, I cannot fathom arguing over frame rates and codecs, no thank you.


----------



## marathonman (Aug 29, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I would love a C500 w/ RF mount.


It makes sense that you will see that probably soon. With a cinema RF adapter, you could use RF, EF or PL lenses quickly without having to change mount....


----------



## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Yes, the camera does not really overheat. And the Earth is flat and we never landed on the moon.
> Learn some physics. Understand that electronics generate heat. Try to grasp that all FF DSLRs and MILCs have issues with overheating.
> Do you seriously think that Canon has devised a way to overcome physics reality. A magic potion perhaps sprinkled on the processor?


Do you really think it’s possible to run the R5 all day long without any overheating whatsoever, just because it’s connected to an external recorder, but pop a card in the slot, while still outputting/recording externally and voilà, the overheating is back? Don’t be silly.
Lots of companies limit capabilities artificially, Tesla does it among others. It’s extremely common in software paid/free versions.


----------



## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

After enhancing the image detail we can clearly observe that there is indeed a hinge visible in the picture. So we can conclude that the C70 will sport a flippy screen.


----------



## Furry84 (Aug 29, 2020)

I would really love to see more pictures.
The Input 1 & 2 parts on the side suggest a xlr/monitor unit and i would love to know how these attachments look with the body applied.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Hmm, mixture of some XC-10 and some Blackmagic stuff. I am worried though, as the main question is - whom is the camera for? It should be a Panasonic or Sony A7SIII competitor. But that means - EVF, that also means an IBIS. If Canon made it just a C line like, and it will have no IBIS, then it is a different product for different ppl and as an occassional videographer for weddings, there is a zero chance I would get one, if IBIS is missing. Simple as that.


So 90% of a $12,000 C-300 Mk3 For $6000...and that’s a problem for you? Ok. If you are shooting weddings you should have one A cam on a tripod anyway making ibis irrelevant. This is who this camera is for


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 29, 2020)

DBounce said:


> After enhancing the image detail we can clearly observe that there is indeed a hinge visible in the picture. So we can conclude that the C70 will sport a flippy screen.


Worst news.


----------



## jvillain (Aug 29, 2020)

The devil is in the details but at first blush I like the form factor better than my BMPCC.



slclick said:


> So it's ok to go one way but not the other? See that's the rub. You can start on a 'Stills Only Body' wishlist thread and all the forum comes to bash your balls. But it's perfectly understandable for this body to take zero stills.



I haven't seen any documentation saying it won't take stills. I understand why a C-800 doesn't take stills but it would make a lot of sense if this one does. If you are shooting some "Behind the scenes" footage and shots it would be good to be able to do both on this guy as it would be pretty good in that application. For the record in high dynamic range landscape shot my BMPCC takes way better stills then my EOS R with the side benifit that it puts out a DNG file so I don't have to own a windows computer just to convert my CR3 files to DNG so I can edit them.



-pekr- said:


> Hmm, mixture of some XC-10 and some Blackmagic stuff. I am worried though, as the main question is - whom is the camera for?



My guess would be that it is primarily aimed at stemming the bleeding from the BMPCC. But is would have a number of applications from weddings where you need to move quick, to gimbal work and places where you don't want to stick a big dollar cinema camera like the outside of a car. This would also get into places that a big rig camera would draw to much attention like pretty well every where in a city. Where I live, if I alone was to take a C-500 to a park I would need $2000 permit, $18,000 cash deposit, I think it is $2M insurance. Or I could take this guy and pretend I am shooting photos for free. If you travel a lot shooting videos like the YT crowd this could be a winner as well. Speaking of which some one was saying this would be to big for a gimbal but it will work on most. If you can stick a 400mm 2.8 GM on a Ronin S this thing with a 24-70 will be no problem.


----------



## drama (Aug 29, 2020)

I'm going cautious on spec here, due to number in the name, and the R5. I'm saying super 35 sensor with RF mount will be the draw, and 4K 60p be the top it can do. Protects the R5, gives people an entry point into RF film making, and paves the way for R mount C300 / C500 equivalents next year. Price I'm guessing around $4.5k.


----------



## landon (Aug 29, 2020)

drama said:


> I'm going cautious on spec here, due to number in the name, and the R5. I'm saying super 35 sensor with RF mount will be the draw, and 4K 60p be the top it can do. Protects the R5, gives people an entry point into RF film making, and paves the way for R mount C300 / C500 equivalents next year. Price I'm guessing around $4.5k.


Earlier post:

*Canon Cinema EOS C70 *(Name not confirmed)

Super 35mm 4K DGO sensor (same as the Cinema EOS C300 Mark III)
No IBIS
RF Mount
Internal ND (10 Stops)
CLog 2 & CLog 3
4:2:2 10bit onto SD cards up to 4K120 and 2K180
No RAW capability internally at launch
BP-A batteries
Price: $6299 USD


----------



## Del Paso (Aug 29, 2020)

Respinder said:


> This is exactly what I was worried about and now this is proof - Canon really seems to be going hard on the path to crippling their products to protect other lines. For folks like me who desire a proper hybrid - this is not a solution - just another problem.


Oh my God, another cripple hammer fanboy...


----------



## janmaly (Aug 29, 2020)

Basically R5 with a fan


----------



## KenLLL (Aug 29, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Well, that's my worry. Ppl using e.g. C300 III will wait for just C300 IV having an RF mount. Why should they opt for C50 or C70? Maybe as a B roll cameras? So - if Canon thinks, that C50 or C70 would attract professional wedding shooters, putting no IBIS there is a fatal mistake. They don't need to put stills mode there, as if they really want to compete to the likes of an A7SIII, they need perfect low-light performance, hence even a lower resolution than the R6's 20mpx, but IBIS has to be there. My bet is, that IBIS is going to be missing, which will immediately cut-off many potential buyers. That's why I ask about the market target for such cameras.


If IBIS isn't in it, I'm so excited for all the whiners to say the product is ******* without ever having used it. That being said, if it had ibis, i would never use it. My Ronin S more than satisfies my stabalization needs.


----------



## David the street guy (Aug 29, 2020)

slclick said:


> CID comments are becoming the new Dad jokes. Please, be original. Ugh.



Having a bad day? Sorry for you, grumpy daddy… Please, be nice to people. Ugh.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 29, 2020)

DBounce said:


> After enhancing the image detail we can clearly observe that there is indeed a hinge visible in the picture. So we can conclude that the C70 will sport a flippy screen.


Would be outstanding to have a screen like that for touch DPAF. But it could also be a door/cover for mechanical dials for audio preamps like the other cinema cams. That said, being on the back, I DO tend to agree it's more likely a tiltflip


----------



## scyrene (Aug 29, 2020)

derpderp said:


> I fully expect that thing to run 12k unlimited recording (based on youtuber expectations)



Don't forget the massive "sarcasm" tag!


----------



## DBounce (Aug 29, 2020)

janmaly said:


> Basically R5 with a fan



How do you figure?

C300MkiiiR5Sensor8.85MP45MP4K Native8K Native16:93:2NDBuilt-inNAWeather sealingNoneFullBattery typeBP-A SeriesLP-E6N/HImage stabilizationElectronicIBIS and electronic

I think this camera is most like the C300 Mkiii. The question is really... is this a better option than the Sony A7S3? Granted the DGO sensor is something special, but this is also only a APSC sensor compared to full frame. I would love to see some footage comparing the C300 Mk3 to the Sony A7S3 and R5... if we could get a Red Komodo 6K in there also that would be fantastic. I’d like to see the detail, dynamic range etc...


----------



## sanj (Aug 29, 2020)

The specs do not make it compete (or compare) with R5 or C300II. This is a totally different camera for budget videographers. And it will serve wonderfully for them.


----------



## Ryanite (Aug 29, 2020)

DBounce said:


> After enhancing the image detail we can clearly observe that there is indeed a hinge visible in the picture. So we can conclude that the C70 will sport a flippy screen.



I think it makes a lot of sense to have a flip screen but with a hinge much like the c200. In this position it would allow the flip monitor to clear all cables and buttons but still allow full mobility.


----------



## melbournite (Aug 30, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> ...If I may be greedy, I’d also ask for a tilt up screen like on the a7iii. I Loathe flip screens.
> Come canon.



I thought I was the only one on the planet that wished this too! I find it quicker and easier than having to pull-out and flip


----------



## DBounce (Aug 30, 2020)

melbournite said:


> I thought I was the only one on the planet that wished this too! I find it quicker and easier than having to pull-out and flip


I’d take the Panasonic S1H flip screen.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 30, 2020)

melbournite said:


> I thought I was the only one on the planet that wished this too! I find it quicker and easier than having to pull-out and flip



thank god there is someone else to think like me! 
this flippy screen was made forvolggers, under the pressure of vlogger, but it’s so inconvenient. 
my biggest complaint with it is that when you film video, the image is not directly behind the lens but on the side and it puts me off balance. Ihate the experience and I would have preferred a tilt up screen but I suppose this is the way forward for all brands now so we will have to get used to it.

i think the best system was the tilt up and down screen like you find on the newest apsc models. satisfies everyone needs.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> I’d take the Panasonic S1H flip screen.


Duh


----------



## The3o5FlyGuy (Aug 30, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Another idiot. So sad. Canon tries to keep fools like you from damaging their camera. It really is that simple. But no, the conspiracy idiots can't accept the obvious answer. Why then, one might ask, do Sony FF cameras overheat. Are they part of the conspiracy, too?


I'm the idiot? The bottleneck in the cameras is USUALLY the processor. To keep it simple, really, really REALY simple. The sensors are pretty much recording more information then the processors can handle. That's what's "supposed" to be causing them to overheat. All those megapixels just record too much information. Thus, causing the cameras to overheat. Either lower the megapixels or make more powerful processors. Right? well, the Canon Digic X processor in the R5 and the R6 is THREE-TIMES faster than the TWO Digic 6+'s in the Canon 1dx Mark II. That's right, that ONE processor is THREE-TIMES more powerful than that TWO processors in canons previous flagship DSLR. And that's why people are more skeptical. Canon has made more powerful processors, much more powerful processors, theres no doubt about it. And its already been proven that there is a timer in the camera that itself that starts whenever you use the camera for anything to limit its use more than the temperature of the camera itself. We know this. ANd this is why people are skeptical and furious with canon, it's lke they can, but won't... And the latest sony Camera, the a7s III does not overheat in any setting.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 30, 2020)

The3o5FlyGuy said:


> I'm the idiot? The bottleneck in the cameras is USUALLY the processor. To keep it simple, really, really REALY simple. The sensors are pretty much recording more information then the processors can handle. That's what's "supposed" to be causing them to overheat. All those megapixels just record too much information. Thus, causing the cameras to overheat. Either lower the megapixels or make more powerful processors. Right? well, the Canon Digic X processor in the R5 and the R6 is THREE-TIMES faster than the TWO Digic 6+'s in the Canon 1dx Mark II. That's right, that ONE processor is THREE-TIMES more powerful than that TWO processors in canons previous flagship DSLR. And that's why people are more skeptical. Canon has made more powerful processors, much more powerful processors, theres no doubt about it. And its already been proven that there is a timer in the camera that itself that starts whenever you use the camera for anything to limit its use more than the temperature of the camera itself. We know this. ANd this is why people are skeptical and furious with canon, it's lke they can, but won't... And the latest sony Camera, the a7s III does not overheat in any setting.



You do realize that ANY processor will generate heat, right, even one that isn't underpowered? In fact, the more powerful, the more heat. It's not a result of the chip laboring under too great a load.

If they're skeptical about overheating because the processor is more powerful, they're just ignorant.


----------



## adrian_bacon (Aug 30, 2020)

The3o5FlyGuy said:


> ANd this is why people are skeptical and furious with canon, it's lke they can, but won't...



That's right. They totally can, but won't... at least not for that price. Let's be very clear here. 8K recording of any kind is on the high end. 8K raw even more so. Expecting unfettered better than C700 level video performance in the price and body of a 5D camera is what is unreasonable. Canon has and probably always will do market segmentation. If you don't like that, simply don't buy their stuff. Getting upset because you didn't pay for a C700 but expect better than C700 is waste of time.


----------



## Ryanite (Aug 30, 2020)

More pictures and info please Canon rumours guy!! I think this may be my first big step into a real video camera.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 30, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> We got pretty quick with setup/breakdown with the C300MKII on a gimbal. Played with the Mark III and it was much faster to setup. Guess it just depends on your build.


ronin s......


----------



## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

I can confirm that this is RF mount.. same sensor as C300iii with DGO. 16+ stops DR. 4k120..
10bit 422 x avc Intra. No Raw. No SDI 

No internal raw. No external raw...

Price $6299.00

4k dci 4k60p 4k120p

ND filters...


----------



## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

This will be 1st cine camera with new RF mount. Compete with Komodo... and ofc fill out Canons lineup. Sony has yet to answer fs5ii replacement. The dgo sensor with RF glass that works with pdaf. No raw codecs. Nice move by canon.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 30, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> ronin s......


You can balance a C300III / C500II on a Ronin S.


----------



## syder (Aug 30, 2020)

Kam said:


> I
> The BMPCC4k/6k are the same shape, yet way smaller and they can barely fit on most gimbals, qnd are a huge pain to balance.
> What gimbal is this gonna go on exactly?
> I can only think of Zhiyun Crane3S.



You can balance a C200 on a Ronin S with no hassle. This looks a lot smaller than a C200.


----------



## fingerstein (Aug 30, 2020)

baker21 said:


> I can confirm that this is RF mount.. same sensor as C300iii with DGO. 16+ stops DR. 4k120..
> 10bit 422 x avc Intra. No Raw. No SDI
> 
> No internal raw. No external raw...
> ...


The price should be maybe a touch higher than A7SIII. Who are the Canon competitors on video professional cameras? Sony? Panasonic? Blackmagic? Maybe Z-cam?


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 30, 2020)

fingerstein said:


> The price should be maybe a touch higher than A7SIII. Who are the Canon competitors on video professional cameras? Sony? Panasonic? Blackmagic? Maybe Z-cam?



The real question is, is that camera really better than the a7sIII with its 16 bit RAW output ?


----------



## pmjm (Aug 30, 2020)

syder said:


> Why does IBIS have to be there?
> 
> If you're a videographer you have a decent tripod and a gimbal. Gimbal footage looks a damn sight better than anything handheld with IBIS, and this camera looks like it was made to fly.
> 
> Panasonic didn't bother with IBIS in the GH5s because it isn't considered to be a useful feature for many pro filmmakers or videographers.



Gimbals add weight, an extra battery to die, and every time you change lenses you have to rebalance. As a one-man-band it's just too much. The R5's ibis has been a godsend so far. If they can solve overheating at 4khq it will be my perfect camera.

That said, if this new cine cam has ibis, eye-AF and comparable 4K to the HQ on the R5 I might be sold. It would be a bummer to lose the FOV of the uncropped sensor though.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 30, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Gimbals add weight, an extra battery to die, and every time you change lenses you have to rebalance. As a one-man-band it's just too much. The R5's ibis has been a godsend so far. If they can solve overheating at 4khq it will be my perfect camera.
> 
> That said, if this new cine cam has ibis, eye-AF and comparable 4K to the HQ on the R5 I might be sold. It would be a bummer to lose the FOV of the uncropped sensor though.



are you happy with the video DR of your R5 so far ? It’s my only disapointment with the camera


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## pmjm (Aug 30, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> are you happy with the video DR of your R5 so far ? It’s my only disapointment with the camera



The 4KHQ is the best looking 4K I've ever seen out of a camera. I'm using it with the Ninja though so that's an additional expense and bulk. But it gives you virtually unlimited record times in HQ and also gives you a codec you can edit without proxies. Combined with the Ninja it is indeed a video beast.


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## PureClassA (Aug 30, 2020)

marathonman said:


> I wonder whether that hot shoe type ridge / mount at the top of the camera is for the EVF or an Atomos style accessory. Would make it very flexible if you could just slide the EVF on and off when required.


You were hitting all the high points I noticed but no one else had yet brought up. Yes the back buttons look to be the peaking, zebra, etc... Cinema buttons. The hotshoe on top caught my eye, and someone else thought they could make out what appeared to be a hinge that may suggest an articulating screen. The hotshoe would accommodate a small microphone like a Shure or Rode with a 1/8 inch pin. Look below the "INPUT 1 and 2" spaces. There's a third below it that looks to say "MIC". So you get 2 mini XLRs with 48v Phantom power and some nice preamps plus you get 1/8 inch mic jack typical of MILCs and DSLRs. And given the top shape WITH that hotshoe there MIGHT just be an EVF already there. That's kinda what that looks like to me


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## PureClassA (Aug 30, 2020)

pmjm said:


> The 4KHQ is the best looking 4K I've ever seen out of a camera. I'm using it with the Ninja though so that's an additional expense and bulk. But it gives you virtually unlimited record times in HQ and also gives you a codec you can edit without proxies. Combined with the Ninja it is indeed a video beast.


Yeah if you're doing serious work for hire than I doubt you're showing up with naught but a little naked MILC. You probably have a cage or rig you're building it into or it's mounted to a video tripod. In either case I really have never had a problem using the Ninja V where it impeded my ability to use the camera in the same manner. Again, I'm not run-and-gun very much. but when I do, the EOS R does fine with the Ronin M and I can mount the Ninja to the top cross bar. Otherwise the Ninja is on a small rig arm attached to the tripod with the camera. And you hit the nail on the head about the codec factor, which is HUGE for me and I think gets overlooked too often. I can run smooth as silk playback on an 8 year old MacPro doing Multicam editing with 2 - 3 4K streams in Adobe. The native Canon codecs stutter and stammer and choke and I find myself having to re-encode. ProResHQ is just so much nicer to work with.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> How do you figure?
> 
> C300MkiiiR5Sensor8.85MP45MP4K Native8K Native16:93:2NDBuilt-inNAWeather sealingNoneFullBattery typeBP-A SeriesLP-E6N/HImage stabilizationElectronicIBIS and electronic
> 
> I think this camera is most like the C300 Mkiii. The question is really... is this a better option than the Sony A7S3? Granted the DGO sensor is something special, but this is also only a APSC sensor compared to full frame. I would love to see some footage comparing the C300 Mk3 to the Sony A7S3 and R5... if we could get a Red Komodo 6K in there also that would be fantastic. I’d like to see the detail, dynamic range etc...



Yeah I dont understand how a compact, half priced, Super35 C300-3 is the R5 with active cooling....


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## gmail (Aug 30, 2020)

I hope Canon will make their EVF-V70 professional external viewfinder compatible with C70 camera via a hot/cold shoe mount. This will make it an ultimate run-and-gun camera. Any built-in camera screen is almost useless for framing when shooting outside.


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## janmaly (Aug 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> How do you figure?
> 
> C300MkiiiR5Sensor8.85MP45MP4K Native8K Native16:93:2NDBuilt-inNAWeather sealingNoneFullBattery typeBP-A SeriesLP-E6N/HImage stabilizationElectronicIBIS and electronic
> 
> I think this camera is most like the C300 Mkiii. The question is really... is this a better option than the Sony A7S3? Granted the DGO sensor is something special, but this is also only a APSC sensor compared to full frame. I would love to see some footage comparing the C300 Mk3 to the Sony A7S3 and R5... if we could get a Red Komodo 6K in there also that would be fantastic. I’d like to see the detail, dynamic range etc...



Just regarding the body shape, overall form factor seems to be much closer to R5 than C300. Ofcourse no the specs.


----------



## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> The real question is, is that camera really better than the a7sIII with its 16 bit RAW output ?



This is a S35 sensor Cine Camera..this is Not a Photograph camera.

This is a Pro Body. It'll have 16stops DR where as R5 is 14 stops. About 12 usable with clog.

As for competition this is Komodo competition more than anything else. Built in ND filters komodo dont have.

DGO S35 sensor is amazing IQ.

This will use canons pro codec 10bit xavc intra.. this codec is NOT on the R5.

Big difference bt R5 and A7siii is Sony put Fx9 cine codec h264 xavc intra into the A7siii.

Canon only used h265 codec. Sony uses h265 to9 but offers pro codec for easy editing.

This will have pro xlr inputs.. has internal nDs and pro cine body. No overheating. No record limits and AF that woks. Dual puxel AF. Where red has no aF yet for rf glass. Let alone communication. 

Takes years and millions of developing an AF system. Unless u steal it by hackng. Or reverse hack software. Takes years to develop. PDAF will take millions in development. Canon recently got hacked hopefully no sensitive AF info was stolen.


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## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> How do you figure?
> 
> C300MkiiiR5Sensor8.85MP45MP4K Native8K Native16:93:2NDBuilt-inNAWeather sealingNoneFullBattery typeBP-A SeriesLP-E6N/HImage stabilizationElectronicIBIS and electronic
> 
> I think this camera is most like the C300 Mkiii. The question is really... is this a better option than the Sony A7S3? Granted the DGO sensor is something special, but this is also only a APSC sensor compared to full frame. I would love to see some footage comparing the C300 Mk3 to the Sony A7S3 and R5... if we could get a Red Komodo 6K in there also that would be fantastic. I’d like to see the detail, dynamic range etc...



DYNAMIC RANGE IS A BIG DEAL. We all know the R5 is lacking DR. Canon fanboys can act like its Not a big deal but it really is. 

If you want that Pro Cine Video look you need that DR. The A7siii has over 15++ stops of dR in slog3. 

The canon c300iii DR is even better its


stevensteven said:


> are you happy with the video DR of your R5 so far ? It’s my only disapointment with the camera



GO. Basically the sensor does 2x simultaneous
readouts.. 1xfor highlights and 1x for shadows then combine. But the other bigger deal is S35 sensor vs FF sensor. Only the A7siii is a Ff sensor and its BSI.. it'll be low light king for next 5 yrs.


----------



## Kit. (Aug 30, 2020)

Kam said:


> From what I read there hasn't been a cinema cam with IBIS from Canon, and people are ok with that I guess?


The same could be said about Canon's stills cameras just a couple of months ago.

Not claiming anything about this particular rumored body, but if a camera has a hand grip, it would likely benefit from having IBIS too.


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## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

But red has even higher DR.. so it really comes to needs. Red you get red raw.. s35. But lacking AF. $6k.

Eosc70. Great s35 dgo . Best DR close to Red. No Raw. Great AF for RF glass. No raw. Built in NDs. Built in xlr. $6k

While competition is priced at 6k and both are S35.
A7siii has a lil less DR but its close.nearly negligible to tell difference. 15+ stops to 16 stops. Contrast n grading plays more role than anything. Have FF is big deal. Only FF sensor to do 4k120p. S35 alot smaller. And Sony put pro codec h264 xavc I 600mbps and put in raw 16bit too ninja. Basically surprising everyone. 

Thanks to canons R5. 

R5 great stills camera video specs are great on paper but no h264 pro codec! So hard to edit. Also DR is down a few stops. I dont think adding clog2 or 3 will make a big difference tho it may help a bit. Kinda like A7iii having slog3. Dr just ain't there in sensor.

So sonys option at $3k is a steal. Its a cine camera 1st. Then xlr k3m gives you x l r inputs 4 channels. Plus polarpro Mattebox with ND filters gets you 95% there. 

With proper Rig you can't go wrong. Add about another $1500-$2000. 

Still less than $6k though. And still FF. If you own EF glass A7siii should be an option for video.. if you own RF glass then A7siii is Not for you unless u sell your glass.

Eos c70 will compete w Komodo. Be better than R5 by far with great DR. No raw but you got canons best pro codec. H264 xavc I. Canons best log clog 3 with 16 stops. ND filters and xlr inputs. 

Can't go wrong. If IQ above all else and AF not needed then ko m odo gives you raw workflow. All will give you great IQ. 

If you do video above all else I would suggest any 3x. I would stay away from R5 for video only.


Id go A7riv.. A7riii.. if ef glass. Consider those. Or 1dxiii which is also $6k but won't overheat ! R5 if stills first but non pro environment. I would be scared to shoot R5 at a paid wedding doing hybrid shoot. Better have backup ready to go. Heat is really problematic as we all know.


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## Stanly (Aug 30, 2020)

janmaly said:


> Basically R5 with a fan


Only if it can do full frame RAW stills and has IBIS.


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## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

I love Canons move of using DGO sensor s35 16+ stops. This is what arri does with their great IQ. You wont get raw and it'll crush c300iii sales. But after A7siii dropped made c300iii at $11k not feasible. 4k120p no raw with canons pro xf avc I is big deal for $6k.

This is Komodo competition hands down. Komodo didn't even drop yet. Canon sold mount to red then drops a Komodo killer b4 it drops.

I love Canons strategy here! Look for Sony to answer with fx6. fs5ii replacevent. Sony will go FF though. Use Fx9 sensor maybe go no Raw option also. Canons xf avc I is a pro codec and to any1 considering a video camera. Codecs play the biggest deal and is often most overlooked feature. R5 had great specs on paper but no pro codec. Oy h265 which needs proxies. Also DR is biggest deal besides codecs. Raw is important too if u need raw workflow. We are all spoiled to have so many great choices. Pick right tool for you.


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## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

Kit. said:


> The same could be said about Canon's stills cameras just a couple of months ago.
> 
> Not claiming anything about this particular rumored body, but if a camera has a hand grip, it would likely benefit from having IBIS too.


You can't build a cine camera with both ND filters and IBIS. At this time the technology is not there. Also cinema camera get around that with heavier weight. They have gyroscope on fx9 for amazing post stabilization. I know canon has some active digital stabilization also.

But you don't have both. ND plus IBIS. One or other. Technology not there yet.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 30, 2020)

janmaly said:


> Just regarding the body shape, overall form factor seems to be much closer to R5 than C300. Ofcourse no the specs.


In that case it’s much more of a 1DX meets BMPCC


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 30, 2020)

baker21 said:


> You can't build a cine camera with both ND filters and IBIS. At this time the technology is not there. Also cinema camera get around that with heavier weight. They have gyroscope on fx9 for amazing post stabilization. I know canon has some active digital stabilization also.
> 
> But you don't have both. ND plus IBIS. One or other. Technology not there yet.


Yeah there is only so much flange depth to work with and Built In ND is far more frequently useful on these types of cameras than is IBIS.


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## baker21 (Aug 30, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Yeah if you're doing serious work for hire than I doubt you're showing up with naught but a little naked MILC. You probably have a cage or rig you're building it into or it's mounted to a video tripod. In either case I really have never had a problem using the Ninja V where it impeded my ability to use the camera in the same manner. Again, I'm not run-and-gun very much. but when I do, the EOS R does fine with the Ronin M and I can mount the Ninja to the top cross bar. Otherwise the Ninja is on a small rig arm attached to the tripod with the camera. And you hit the nail on the head about the codec factor, which is HUGE for me and I think gets overlooked too often. I can run smooth as silk playback on an 8 year old MacPro doing Multicam editing with 2 - 3 4K streams in Adobe. The native Canon codecs stutter and stammer and choke and I find myself having to re-encode. ProResHQ is just so much nicer to work with.


Canons pro codec xf avc I 10bitv422. Runs like butter. Same codec cc00iii and c500 series. 

but the Eos R5. Runs h265. Its not the pro cine oc. Both Sony and canon pro cine line offer xvc I h264. Hats y Sony putting thatro codec in a7siii is use deal. Thank u cnon r5. Sony neverused pr codec in a7 line. also no 10bit.
but they also did16bit raw to ninj. Big deal.


----------



## DBounce (Aug 30, 2020)

baker21 said:


> DYNAMIC RANGE IS A BIG DEAL. We all know the R5 is lacking DR. Canon fanboys can act like its Not a big deal but it really is.
> 
> If you want that Pro Cine Video look you need that DR. The A7siii has over 15++ stops of dR in slog3.
> 
> ...



I'll agree that DR is important... up to a point and certainly it is more important when the environment cannot be controlled. But to me with the latest R5 debacle, Sony is now firmly in the lead as far as bang-for-the buck goes. When the Canon R5 was announced I immediately pre-ordered, and expected to keep that camera for many years to come. After receiving the body I learned first hand that the overheating issue was indeed real. I decided to be patient and wait until Canon addressed the issue. But now, after having installed version 1.1 of the firmware, I can confirm that the issue is far from resolved. I just got done packing up over $6K worth of returns... R5, Battery Grip, two memory cards (2.5TB worth), and the CFExpress reader... I'm done. I also pre-ordered the Sony A7S3 immediately when sales opened on the launch day. I rest safe in the knowledge that the Sony should perform without limitations. Turns out the two overheating incidence where due to cheap plastic lenses being used that trapped heat in the body. This will not be an issue for me.

I may get another Canon body, but honestly I'm going to take a wait and see approach after this last fiasco. I used to believe Canons were... if nothing else, extremely reliable professional tools, but this last experience has destroyed that confidence that I once had in the brand. 

Sony colors are much improved. They seem to be bringing their best game now. Battery life is very good. Weather sealing is now taken seriously. Overall, they are doing what it takes to earn my business. On the phone with BH Photo today, the wait-time was 71 minutes. The online chat was so busy that the system was diverting to email instead. I don't know if this is all due to R5 returns, but it would make sense as today is the last day to return for the launch pre-orders. Expect a flood of refurbs and used R5 bodies in the near future.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> I'll agree that DR is important... up to a point and certainly it is more important when the environment cannot be controlled. But to me with the latest R5 debacle, Sony is now firmly in the lead as far as bang-for-the buck goes. When the Canon R5 was announced I immediately pre-ordered, and expected to keep that camera for many years to come. After receiving the body I learned first hand that the overheating issue was indeed real. I decided to be patient and wait until Canon addressed the issue. But now, after having installed version 1.1 of the firmware, I can confirm that the issue is far from resolved. I just got done packing up over $6K worth of returns... R5, Battery Grip, two memory cards (2.5TB worth), and the CFExpress reader... I'm done. I also pre-ordered the Sony A7S3 immediately when sales opened on the launch day. I rest safe in the knowledge that the Sony should perform without limitations. Turns out the two overheating incidence where due to cheap plastic lenses being used that trapped heat in the body. This will not be an issue for me.
> 
> I may get another Canon body, but honestly I'm going to take a wait and see approach after this last fiasco. I used to believe Canons were... if nothing else, extremely reliable professional tools, but this last experience has destroyed that confidence that I once had in the brand.
> 
> Sony colors are much improved. They seem to be bringing their best game now. Battery life is very good. Weather sealing is now taken seriously. Overall, they are doing what it takes to earn my business. On the phone with BH Photo today, the wait-time was 71 minutes. The online chat was so busy that the system was diverting to email instead. I don't know if this is all due to R5 returns, but it would make sense as today is the last day to return for the launch pre-orders. Expect a flood of refurbs and used R5 bodies in the near future.



Same here mate. Just took the decision to return my R5 and get an a7siii. 
Im quite amazed though how Sony played canon. They won the war. 
And I’m even convinced that when the a7iv comes out it’ll be a more capable hybrid than the R5. 

Time to invest in some good FE glass now.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 30, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Same here mate. Just took the decision to return my R5 and get an a7siii.
> Im quite amazed though how Sony played canon. They won the war.
> And I’m even convinced that when the a7iv comes out it’ll be a more capable hybrid than the R5.
> 
> Time to invest in some good FE glass now.


I actually have some Sony equipment and absolutely love the 24mm GM. Haven't decided on A7siii yet but I just might. Are you not considering this C70 or do you need FF/Hybrid?


----------



## pmjm (Aug 31, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Yeah if you're doing serious work for hire than I doubt you're showing up with naught but a little naked MILC. You probably have a cage or rig you're building it into or it's mounted to a video tripod. In either case I really have never had a problem using the Ninja V where it impeded my ability to use the camera in the same manner. Again, I'm not run-and-gun very much. but when I do, the EOS R does fine with the Ronin M and I can mount the Ninja to the top cross bar. Otherwise the Ninja is on a small rig arm attached to the tripod with the camera. And you hit the nail on the head about the codec factor, which is HUGE for me and I think gets overlooked too often. I can run smooth as silk playback on an 8 year old MacPro doing Multicam editing with 2 - 3 4K streams in Adobe. The native Canon codecs stutter and stammer and choke and I find myself having to re-encode. ProResHQ is just so much nicer to work with.



Another factor with the Ninja is you bypass Canon's stupid 30 minute internal record timer. Hopefully they disable that in an update.

One downside with the R5 and the Ninja, however, is the damn micro HDMI port. I've already broken two cables just with regular usage. Why Canon didn't include a full-sized HDMI is beyond me.


----------



## StandardLumen (Aug 31, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Same here mate. Just took the decision to return my R5 and get an a7siii.
> Im quite amazed though how Sony played canon. They won the war.
> And I’m even convinced that when the a7iv comes out it’ll be a more capable hybrid than the R5.
> 
> Time to invest in some good FE glass now.



To each their own. I lean heavily towards the photography side of things and only occasionally use my camera for video, but I replaced my A7R IV with an R5 and couldn't be happier about it. In my opinion, all of the talk of overheating has distracted from the fact that the R5 is far and away the best camera on the market for stills.


----------



## baker21 (Aug 31, 2020)

At end of the day we all got great tools to use. Im really excited to see canons c70. It is 100% there response to Komodo and a few yrs ago I dont see Canon doing this. The c300iii just dropped but at $12k there camera solutions not in that price range. Bravo for Canon doing a $6k cine camera with no raw. Canons pro xf avc I 10bitv422 is as good as it gets. And the s35 Dgo 16stops is amazing. This will be a top seller with AF. This is Canon cine line reinvented.


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## PureClassA (Aug 31, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Another factor with the Ninja is you bypass Canon's stupid 30 minute internal record timer. Hopefully they disable that in an update.
> 
> One downside with the R5 and the Ninja, however, is the damn micro HDMI port. I've already broken two cables just with regular usage. Why Canon didn't include a full-sized HDMI is beyond me.


My R6 arrives tomorrow. The Micro HDMI absolutely pisses me off. That is my only complaint with this camera. Mini HDMIs have been on Canon bodies up until now... Now another step down to Micro. I am so fearful that ordered 3 Micro cables. Another reason I will probably always have the R6 in a cage with a cable mount. I really really really really HATE that Canon did this.


----------



## akramography (Aug 31, 2020)

heeeey . . . that's my birthday! you don't think I can get it as a BD present, do you?


----------



## baker21 (Aug 31, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> My R6 arrives tomorrow. The Micro HDMI absolutely pisses me off. That is my only complaint with this camera. Mini HDMIs have been on Canon bodies up until now... Now another step down to Micro. I am so fearful that ordered 3 Micro cables. Another reason I will probably always have the R6 in a cage with a cable mount. I really really really really HATE that Canon did this.


I feel for canon R5 users tbh. The way canon hyped this camera up It was best thing since sliced bread. 2x stats not disclosed during all the hype. #1 DR canon knows how to test dr and when its amazing they surely tell ppl and brag. The c300iii did 16+ and it was marketed everywhere. The other one is R5 and the codecs. No pro line h264 was telling to me. I never thought sony would fo it. Truth is h265 is not backed by cpus yet. Power to edit not there. U need proxies.

As for R5 and ninja to get 4k prores kinda a workaround. With Sony a7siii you use ninja to get 16bit raw linear = 12bit log raw. If it good enough for Arri its good enough for me. Sony using pro fx9 codec is bc of R5 specs. Who says competition ain't good. 

If I owned R5 I'd be on them for h264 pro codec!!


----------



## baker21 (Aug 31, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> My R6 arrives tomorrow. The Micro HDMI absolutely pisses me off. That is my only complaint with this camera. Mini HDMIs have been on Canon bodies up until now... Now another step down to Micro. I am so fearful that ordered 3 Micro cables. Another reason I will probably always have the R6 in a cage with a cable mount. I really really really really HATE that Canon did this.


Also I knew 8k was always a marketing gimmick. Its indistinguishable. 8k bs 4k. I could show u 4k that looks better than 8k. Has all to do with DR. The wedding video and matti hapajja comparison really showed R5 DR limitations. Plus not enough considering overheating. For stills its solid camera but I would Not use it at a wedding. If u need 42mp get A7riii. For half cost and no overheating issues. But rf glass is nice and pricey. That eos c70 is gonna sale like hot cakes.

All the buyers waiting 4 komodo are gonna see the dgo 16 + stops s35 w 4k120 and xlr and nd and working AF and pro xf avc I is easy to edit on any cpu! Wow. Im shocked Canon ate into c300iii this soon. C300iii was in trouble bc A7siii does 4k120 ff at 1/4 cost but its a full cine camera. 

This eos c70 im gonna consider for my EF SLR Magic APOs . Also will gimme reason to buy rf glass. I'm so heavily invested in GM glass too but love my APOs. Can't wait to test them tbh. Just got em. I used 1x with borrowed camera. But eos c70 I want 1x. $6k... all day long take my $$ now. That sensor is Arri like!


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## PureClassA (Aug 31, 2020)

baker21 said:


> Also I knew 8k was always a marketing gimmick. Its indistinguishable. 8k bs 4k. I could show u 4k that looks better than 8k. Has all to do with DR. The wedding video and matti hapajja comparison really showed R5 DR limitations. Plus not enough considering overheating. For stills its solid camera but I would Not use it at a wedding. If u need 42mp get A7riii. For half cost and no overheating issues. But rf glass is nice and pricey. That eos c70 is gonna sale like hot cakes.
> 
> All the buyers waiting 4 komodo are gonna see the dgo 16 + stops s35 w 4k120 and xlr and nd and working AF and pro xf avc I is easy to edit on any cpu! Wow. Im shocked Canon ate into c300iii this soon. C300iii was in trouble bc A7siii does 4k120 ff at 1/4 cost but its a full cine camera.
> 
> This eos c70 im gonna consider for my EF SLR Magic APOs . Also will gimme reason to buy rf glass. I'm so heavily invested in GM glass too but love my APOs. Can't wait to test them tbh. Just got em. I used 1x with borrowed camera. But eos c70 I want 1x. $6k... all day long take my $$ now. That sensor is Arri like!


I have a healthy array of stills cameras. I'm looking for the R6 for video strictly and now in tandem with a C70


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## baker21 (Aug 31, 2020)

akramography said:


> heeeey . . . that's my birthday! you don't think I can get it as a BD present, do you?


If your wife let's you..

Basically got 2x options.. buy it and don't tell her..
(She will find out but fight later is still worth it)

Option 2...

You let her buy something of equivalent value 1st.. then a few days later u say.. remember when u wanted xxx.. and I said ok... well I want this.. c70..


Gluck.. lmk what option u choose.. lol


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## baker21 (Aug 31, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I have a healthy array of stills cameras. I'm looking for the R6 for video strictly and now in tandem with a C70


I feel for all canon buyers who bought r5 and got swept up in the hype. It was hard not too tbh. I even almost broke my 2x important rules on buying. Dr and codecs... but at least canon did a kinda increase for R5 but still I don't think its good enough. And the sensor isn't the pro cine dgo sensor the c70 is.. Canon always were behind sony in sensor tech. Sony does BSI and stacked. Really high tech stuff. I dont think canon is quite there. But they really optimize what they do got and that new DGO is amazing. I pulled keys on test footage. Plain avc I xf h264. It was like butter. That codec and uts bitrate is top notch and the log data. The shadows were cleanest shadows I seen. I think when c70 drop alot of R5 video shooters will be selling theres on ebay. Canon is not going to give you unlimited record timed and the sensors DR cant be fixed via firmware. 

If you are video first shooter wait for c70. 

U got to applaud canon for making this move. A few yrs ago they wouldn't do this move bc it eats into c300iii. Just look at c500ii. Basically was the $30k c700.. at half price. W raw light.

I love how it's interchangeable units. And I'm guessing pl and ef mount adapters will be included. The RF mount flange gives limitless possibilities.


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## BeenThere (Aug 31, 2020)

baker21 said:


> I feel for all canon buyers who bought r5 and got swept up in the hype. It was hard not too tbh. I even almost broke my 2x important rules on buying. Dr and codecs... but at least canon did a kinda increase for R5 but still I don't think its good enough. And the sensor isn't the pro cine dgo sensor the c70 is.. Canon always were behind sony in sensor tech. Sony does BSI and stacked. Really high tech stuff. I dont think canon is quite there. But they really optimize what they do got and that new DGO is amazing. I pulled keys on test footage. Plain avc I xf h264. It was like butter. That codec and uts bitrate is top notch and the log data. The shadows were cleanest shadows I seen. I think when c70 drop alot of R5 video shooters will be selling theres on ebay. Canon is not going to give you unlimited record timed and the sensors DR cant be fixed via firmware.
> 
> If you are video first shooter wait for c70.
> 
> ...


Don’t cry for me.
R5 and loving it!


----------



## SteveC (Aug 31, 2020)

baker21 said:


> I feel for all canon buyers who bought r5 and got swept up in the hype.



Wow, you're feeling sorry for me? What for?


----------



## Rocksthaman (Aug 31, 2020)

baker21 said:


> I feel for all canon buyers who bought r5 and got swept up in the hype. It was hard not too tbh. I even almost broke my 2x important rules on buying. Dr and codecs... but at least canon did a kinda increase for R5 but still I don't think its good enough. And the sensor isn't the pro cine dgo sensor the c70 is.. Canon always were behind sony in sensor tech. Sony does BSI and stacked. Really high tech stuff. I dont think canon is quite there. But they really optimize what they do got and that new DGO is amazing. I pulled keys on test footage. Plain avc I xf h264. It was like butter. That codec and uts bitrate is top notch and the log data. The shadows were cleanest shadows I seen. I think when c70 drop alot of R5 video shooters will be selling theres on ebay. Canon is not going to give you unlimited record timed and the sensors DR cant be fixed via firmware.
> 
> If you are video first shooter wait for c70.
> 
> ...



Canon has a huge gap of $2-6k cinema cameras. People are buying their first cameras in this range for Cinema. RED, Blackmagic, Sony, Panasonic, are all putting out impressive offerings for consumers. Canon needs something to capture that audience.

The crazy thought is, what is Canon going to strip out of one of the more expensive cameras to justify its existence.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 31, 2020)

baker21 said:


> I feel for all canon buyers who bought r5 and got swept up in the hype. It was hard not too tbh. I even almost broke my 2x important rules on buying. Dr and codecs... but at least canon did a kinda increase for R5 but still I don't think its good enough. And the sensor isn't the pro cine dgo sensor the c70 is.. Canon always were behind sony in sensor tech. Sony does BSI and stacked. Really high tech stuff. I dont think canon is quite there. But they really optimize what they do got and that new DGO is amazing. I pulled keys on test footage. Plain avc I xf h264. It was like butter. That codec and uts bitrate is top notch and the log data. The shadows were cleanest shadows I seen. I think when c70 drop alot of R5 video shooters will be selling theres on ebay. Canon is not going to give you unlimited record timed and the sensors DR cant be fixed via firmware.
> 
> If you are video first shooter wait for c70.
> 
> ...


you under the assumption that everyone is buying the R5 for video and using it just for video or something. I am pretty sure with all the news a lot of people that are pure video users are holding off on the camera. it is also sold out everywhere so they have time to think over what they really want when it is is in stock.


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## HarryFilm (Aug 31, 2020)

baker21 said:


> This is a S35 sensor Cine Camera..this is Not a Photograph camera.
> 
> This is a Pro Body. It'll have 16stops DR where as R5 is 14 stops. About 12 usable with clog.
> 
> ...



----

"......Takes years and millions of developing an AF system. Unless u steal it by hackng. Or reverse hack software. Takes years to develop. PDAF will take millions in development. Canon recently got hacked hopefully no sensitive AF info was stolen. ......"

---

NO! It does NOT take that much time to create an autofocus system! It took me barely THREE weeks to create a 2D-XY AND 3D-XYZ SOBEL Edge detector which runs a pixel to line/curve vector conversion process which THEN compares the lines and curves to a database of over 200,000 common objects, persons, animals, vessels, vehicles, aerospace systems, weapons systems, buildings, structures and terrain.

To autofocus using edge-detection only, you determine the amount of natural softness (i.e. aliasing) on neighbouring pixels of any detected line and curve and THEN convert that to a percentage-based value of the width and height of the current sensor in pixels/photosites AND in millimeters which allows me to take into account the likely refraction and diffraction of specific light rays coming into a sensor based upon KNOWN characteristics of a given single lens element and all in-series of lens elements, which then allows me to calculate 3D-XYZ light vectors (i.e. ray-tracing) which THEN allows me to calculate distance, orientation and motion of any object.

I send the differences in position, orientation and motion from previous frames as a signal to peizoelectric motors (or in our case, MASSIVE hydraulic systems!) to move a lens assembly in mere milliseconds!

In our parent company's case, I'm imaging very fast moving objects in real-time using a multi-spectral system consisting of four Optical-band and IR/UV cameras and four RADAR/LIDAR imagers each running at 4096 by 2160 pixels (64-bit RGBA) at 10,000 frames per second, so my latency is only three frames to figure out current and estimated position, orientation and motion of ANY object. (we can detect, recognize, track and target 65,000+ different moving objects PER SECOND!)

I then send motor control signals to a large combined electro-hydraulic system which can move a multi-tonne railgun within less than twenty milliseconds to any 3D-XYZ position I so desire for accurate targeting and fire control against any incoming projectile with a velocity up to 160,000 kmh (100,000 mph). (i.e. for MIRVed ICBM and Hypersonic cruise missile defence!)

Canon does something similar but at much slower frame rates and using piezoelectric motors to move a much smaller lens assembly. Autofocus is NO BIG DEAL these days because of 2D-XY SOBEL edge detection. Like I said, it took me barely three weeks to code it and test it!

Autofocus is TRIVIAL these days when you use a proper edge detector on a modern Qualcomm 845 series ARM or better or any AMD RYZEN-3/5/7/9 cpu. These CPUs are so fast these days that I could easily do 120 fps edge detection AND face/eye recognition for most cameras in real time with only one to three frames latency depending upon the processor.

The lower-horsepower DIGIC 8 and above ARM-based CPU's on most modern Canon cameras can EASILY do 30 fps up to 60 fps in DCI 4K real time with the right type of microcoding (i.e. using pure hand-coded assembler). Doing full autofocus at 120 fps is a tad hard using just edge detection BUT it could be refined over time to eventually get there.

SO again, NO! it does NOT take YEARS and millions of dollars to create an autofocus system! ANY competent graphics programmer can do it in mere weeks or maybe three months if they're inexperienced. The ONLY issue is getting the refraction/diffraction and lens position data of ALL lens elements in a typical lens assembly which gets put into a lookup table by the programmer to allow them to determine 2D-XY and 3D-XYZ angles and distance or incoming light rays. SOMEONE has to figure all that out and it ain't the programmer but rather the optical engineer who will be making those spreadsheets of numbers that get converted to a lookup table array.

With Canon, it use multiple photosites to determine minute changes in luminance and chroma between neighbouring photosites which lets the DPAF system INFER changes in orientation, angle and velocity of an object. A faster and simpler edge detector is used to find face and eyes (i.e. PROBABLY the CANNY edge detector) on any ARM-based Canon DIGIC-6 and above procesor.

Canny Edge Detector:








Canny edge detector - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





SOBEL operators: (i.e. combined for 2D_XY and 3D-XYZ edge detection)








Sobel operator - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Since I have access to much higher end processors than even Intel, AMD and IBM (i.e. we make our own 575 TeraFLOP GaAs combined CPU/GPU/DSP processors), I can run a FULL 2D-XY and 3D-XYZ SOBEL edge detector system on any incoming imagery AND run it at up to 10,000 fps for the ULTIMATE in accuracy!

That said, ANY modern AMD Ryzen 3/5/7/9 and Intel iCore-5/7 and Qualcomm 845 series or better CPU can run TRULY ACCURATE face and eye detection at 60 fps to 120 fps DCI 4K video using just SOBEL edge detectors.

V


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 31, 2020)

StandardLumen said:


> To each their own. I lean heavily towards the photography side of things and only occasionally use my camera for video, but I replaced my A7R IV with an R5 and couldn't be happier about it. In my opinion, all of the talk of overheating has distracted from the fact that the R5 is far and away the best camera on the market for stills.



No doubt it is. Even though the a7riv is an extremely capable stills camera. 
But as far as I'm concerned, I'm 80% video, so the R5 has been a huge disappointment, and it's not even because of overheating, cause mine hasn't overheated on me yet, although it did threaten me too....


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 31, 2020)

baker21 said:


> Also I knew 8k was always a marketing gimmick. Its indistinguishable. 8k bs 4k. I could show u 4k that looks better than 8k. Has all to do with DR. The wedding video and matti hapajja comparison really showed R5 DR limitations. Plus not enough considering overheating. For stills its solid camera but I would Not use it at a wedding. If u need 42mp get A7riii. For half cost and no overheating issues. But rf glass is nice and pricey. That eos c70 is gonna sale like hot cakes.
> 
> All the buyers waiting 4 komodo are gonna see the dgo 16 + stops s35 w 4k120 and xlr and nd and working AF and pro xf avc I is easy to edit on any cpu! Wow. Im shocked Canon ate into c300iii this soon. C300iii was in trouble bc A7siii does 4k120 ff at 1/4 cost but its a full cine camera.
> 
> This eos c70 im gonna consider for my EF SLR Magic APOs . Also will gimme reason to buy rf glass. I'm so heavily invested in GM glass too but love my APOs. Can't wait to test them tbh. Just got em. I used 1x with borrowed camera. But eos c70 I want 1x. $6k... all day long take my $$ now. That sensor is Arri like!




What about the a7siii? Do you consider it to be Arri like too? or is the sensor of the c70 way better ? I am asking because of Gerald 's undone to change his order of the c300 t get the a7s3 instead


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 31, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I actually have some Sony equipment and absolutely love the 24mm GM. Haven't decided on A7siii yet but I just might. Are you not considering this C70 or do you need FF/Hybrid?



I am considering the c70 ! But reading most of the comments, and after seeing Gerald's a7sii video when he compares it to the c300mkii, it seems to me that in terms of image quality, the c70 will not necessarily beat the a7siii. 
If that's the case, the only advantage of the c70 will be the cinema body and what comes whith it. For me, that's something I don't need and id rather a smaller form factor than extra ports and vents.... 

I'm still struggling to find out info on which sensor will produce a nicer image though. That DGO canon sensor, or the 12MP BSI in the Sony ?


----------



## Kit. (Aug 31, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I have a healthy array of stills cameras. I'm looking for the R6 for video strictly


Why? I don't remember Canon itself positioning R6 as a video camera.


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## jayphotoworks (Aug 31, 2020)

I still think Canon has an uphill battle in this segment. They have fared relatively poorly in this space starting many quarters ago and are under intense pressure by Blackmagic and Kinefinity who offer way more for way less. I think for Canon, at least in the past, the main thing they bring is DPAF and its huge collection of EF glass. If the C70 lists at $6299, that is a lot of coin when it doesn't have RAW and tops out at 4K even if it has DGO. Nowadays, even RED has started to offer PDAF on its Komodo. I got mine a few weeks ago and while it is still in BETA, I don't think it will EVER get close to Canon's AF implementation. At the same time I also don't need the level of AF I need while shooting on a hybrid system. In exchange, it has 6K, R3D/PRORES and GS which alone stand out on its own. I wonder if the C70 and Komodo were somewhat developed in tandem as they share the same battery system and were designed to cater to two separate types of shooters; C70 for the hybrid groups shooting more ENG/EFP and the Komodo for the hybrid groups shooting more narrative work. Time will tell how successful either company is at reaching a new audience.

The one thing we know for sure is that neither will overheat...    At least for the Komodo, A crew took the Komodo in the desert shooting a post-apocalyptic short and while the external monitor overheated, the tilta nucleus overheated and quit and the CFast cards burned the AC's fingers, the camera kept going.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 31, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Why? I don't remember Canon itself positioning R6 as a video camera.


Oversampled 1:1 4k full Frame readout With 10bit Log 422 out up to 60fps. Perfect compact, basic video body capable of admirably Filming 90% of the things Id use it for which are primarily regular 24p standard speed frame rates. Will
Compliment a cinema cam nicely


----------



## Kam (Aug 31, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Oversampled 1:1 4k full Frame readout With 10bit Log 422 out up to 60fps. Perfect compact, basic video body capable of admirably Filming 90% of the things Id use it for which are primarily regular 24p standard speed frame rates. Will
> Compliment a cinema cam nicely



I really want the R6 but two things are really stopping me from pulling the trigger.

1)No dual slot recording.

2)Micro HDMI

Why put in two slots, if you cant even use them?!
Is this coming in a firmware update or what?!


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 31, 2020)

Kam said:


> I really want the R6 but two things are really stopping me from pulling the trigger.
> 
> 1)No dual slot recording.
> 
> ...


Well they work for stills. Just not video. But I imagine dual recording in those modes produces a lot of heat and may have something to do with that. And yeah I hate the Micro port. Hate it. But I’ll live with it. Not a deal breaker


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## telemaque (Aug 31, 2020)

*VIDEOS Camera Bodies for serious amateurs:*

I was very happy reading the Canon R6 specs and really thought I would buy it.
I am looking at it with a pure Video approach. I do not need a new body for Photography.

Before making a decision on buying this new body I wanted to see the feedback from some bloggers I do trust. 
For example this Austrian guy from Cine5D.

Well here is his experience on the R6:





Quite sad, when you know he is a very honest person testing cameras with seriousness...
Impossible to consider buying a body that is not reliable on the field... 
Ridiculous to be obliged to wait so long between different video sessions.

Even more sad, watching afterwards his review of the Sony A7S iii, showing a camera that is apparently close to perfect for a documentary film maker like him.

So this information on the C70 is not really exciting me, _especially at that price level_.

For me, the current conclusion is sad (with a pure video approach only):

at acceptable price levels for amateurs ie 2000 to 3000 Euros, Canon is offering bodies less interesting than other brands Lumix, Sony and Fuji.
at professional price level ie 4000 to 6000 Euros the competition on mirroless is even bigger with new Lumix and continuous Sony progress on their recent launched bodies (S1H, A7S iii).
at industry price level, ie above 6000 up to 12000 Euros, maybe Canon finds his way and seems to receive good feedback from professionals.
This seems to confirm my very old posts saying, me with my 2000-3000 Euros budget, I am not the commercial target of Canon.
I said this summer if R6 was in the field as good as what we read on paper, I would be the most happy customer and would buy it.

Sadly this happy end will not arrive.

Again, I wish to remind Canon leaders, that there are a bunch a customers interested in videos with my budget around 2000-3000 Euros and it is incredible to see that Canon is not able to produce an equivallent of the Lumix GH5, with maybe an APS-C sensor, but with the equivallent video options offered by Lumix ?!

The review of Cine5D on the Canon R6 is a shame for Canon.
How come, can Canon launch a body clearly oriented into videos that can not work on permanent basis during a full day of shooting?

Let's see what the new Cine Line will show ?!
Saying I have strong hopes would be a lie...


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## SecureGSM (Aug 31, 2020)

telemaque said:


> *VIDEOS Camera Bodies for serious amateurs:*
> 
> I was very happy reading the Canon R6 specs and really thought I would buy it.
> I am looking at it with a pure Video approach. I do not need a new body for Photography.
> ...


++++ How come, can Canon launch *a body clearly oriented into videos* that can not work on permanent basis during a full day of shooting?

A.M.: no, it is not. It is a photography centric body with some video functionality included.


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## subratasenn (Aug 31, 2020)

My hunch about the price. It won't be more than $5499. 
Why? 
Canon C300 price: $10999
Canon C200 price: $ 5499
Canon C100 price: $ 2699
As the numbers come down, the price decreases. That has been the logic so far. 

Now okay, C100 is only a HD camera. So C70, with a 4K spec (hopefully) will be more than that. But it can't be more than the price of C200, that would make no sense. Because C200 gives us CinemaRawLite. If this camera only gives us 422 10 bit internal, there's no justification that it's price can go beyond the C200 price. That would make no sense and would make this camera a dud at launch. So I would expect a price which is lower than C200.


----------



## telemaque (Aug 31, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> ++++ How come, can Canon launch *a body clearly oriented into videos* that can not work on permanent basis during a full day of shooting?
> 
> A.M.: no, it is not. It is a still first body with some video functionality included.



I hear your remark but I disagree with it.
If you are not targetting Videos as a main target, why should you produce a Mirrorless camera?

What improvement do you get from Mirrorless cameras versus DSLR for stills?
I don't think you get much of improvements? Maybe I am wrong, I would be happy reading those reasons.
In my opinion main reason why the 1D line is still a DSLR, because its target is professional stills mostly.

If the target would be mainly Stills, they would have launched a new Canon 5D ... with improved videos features.
If you see differently, please let me know why. Interested to understand your thoughts.

Sony and Lumix invested on Mirrorless cameras mostly for video reasons.
Only way to be able to have the possibility to check the focus during recording a video, *having a mirrorless camera.*


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## SecureGSM (Aug 31, 2020)

telemaque said:


> I hear your remark but I disagree with it.
> If you are not targetting Videos as a main target, why should you produce a Mirrorless camera?
> 
> What improvement do you get from Mirrorless cameras versus DSLR for stills?
> ...


++++ If the target would be mainly Stills, they would have launched a new Canon 5D

A.M.: R5 was positioned as a 5 series camera. 

++++ What improvement do you get from Mirrorless cameras versus DSLR for stills?

A.M. in a few words: almost every single metric of the R5 is a massive Improvement over the DSLR 5D line Except: lesser battery life and lack of OVF.


----------



## telemaque (Aug 31, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> ++++ If the target would be mainly Stills, they would have launched a new Canon 5D
> 
> A.M.: R5 was positioned as a 5 series camera.



This was clear to me. Reason why I made the comparison.


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## SteveC (Aug 31, 2020)

telemaque said:


> What improvement do you get from Mirrorless cameras versus DSLR for stills?
> I don't think you get much of improvements? Maybe I am wrong, I would be happy reading those reasons.
> In my opinion main reason why the 1D line is still a DSLR, because its target is professional stills mostly.



Try: 1) being able to see what you'll get in the viewfinder 2) autofocus points everywhere 3) All sorts of autofocus options not possible (or much more difficult) with a mirror.

I'm sure others could come up with a much longer list.

To say that mirrorless is only beneficial to video is simply ignorant.

Therefore it is entirely possible to create a mirrorless camera aimed at stills shooters, and Canon has been doing so for a couple of years. They did reasonably well with the R and RP, and superbly with the R5 and R6.


----------



## telemaque (Aug 31, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> ++++ What improvement do you get from Mirrorless cameras versus DSLR for stills?
> 
> A.M. in a few words: almost every single metric of the R5 is a massive Improvement over the DSLR 5D line Except: lesser battery life and lack of OVF.



I don't want to bother you. I wish to understand simply.

If you would name 2 or 3 major improvements what would you list?

From your comments, I see maybe I have misunderstood the value of the R5 on the stills side. 
Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## telemaque (Aug 31, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Try: 1) being able to see what you'll get in the viewfinder 2) autofocus points everywhere 3) All sorts of autofocus options not possible (or much more difficult) with a mirror.
> 
> I'm sure others could come up with a much longer list.
> 
> ...



I am trying to understand and I appreciate your feedback.

I might be ignorant and have no problem recognizing it.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 31, 2020)

telemaque said:


> I don't want to bother you. I wish to understand simply.
> 
> If you would name 2 or 3 major improvements what would you list?
> 
> ...


1. AF improvements across the board :
- no need to AFMA your lenses anymore.
- ratio of in focus vs missed focus shots is much higher for R5
2. IBIS
3. much wider AF spread covering entire frame
4. better continues AF , tracking abilities, eyeAF
5. Much higher FPS
6. A Silent shutter mode
7. WYSIWYG viewfinder. exposure simulation
8. blackout free shooting.
9. oh.. An ability to Auto focus at F22!!.
10. An ability to confidently AF in low light settings

and so on and so forth


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## stevensteven (Aug 31, 2020)

Where are the C70 specs ?!!!!!


----------



## Jacob Kelso (Aug 31, 2020)

subratasenn said:


> My hunch about the price. It won't be more than $5499.
> Why?
> Canon C300 price: $10999
> Canon C200 price: $ 5499
> ...



If the rumored specs based on an earlier post are true...









More information about the upcoming RF mount Cinema EOS series of cameras [CR2]


There is a lot of conflicting information hitting my inbox in regards to the previously rumored RF mount Cinema EOS series of cameras. While two cameras have




www.canonrumors.com





...I'd say this camera could have more attractive specs than the C200. I know it does for me. It doesn't have internal RAW but it does have the same new dual gain sensor as the C300 Mark III and based on what I've read it sounds like it's fantastic for low light and a higher dynamic range than the C200's sensor. The biggest weakness that the C200 had was it's 8 bit 4:2:0 then jumps to RAW with no middle ground. 10 bit 4:2:2 is a broadcast standard and I see myself needing that more often than RAW for the majority of the work that I do. 

I know exactly why this doesn't have internal RAW because it would hurt the C300 Mark III's sales. It makes perfect sense to me. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if this new camera could do RAW externally. I can totally see a Ninja V getting a firmware update down the road that would be able to do this because Atomos always seems to cater towards Canon. I'm just speculating of course but it wouldn't surprise me. I'd rather record RAW externally anyway because you can get so much more for your money with SSD's than expensive CFast cards.


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## iamjhil (Aug 31, 2020)

I know I know.... but ibis plz


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## telemaque (Sep 1, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Why? I don't remember Canon itself positioning R6 as a video camera.



Honestly, I also understood R6 to be a Video camera... It is only the answers on my post today that made me realize it was not.
Thanks to the members of CR for clarifying what R5 and R6 were really offering to the photographers.

I suppose we all only hear and remember what we want to hear and remember...
So this confusion comes mostly from my own expectations.

However, having Canon pushing all over the place the R5 is a monster that can shoot 8K video internally and R6 being its little brother...
did not help stupid people like me to understand it is a photo/still centric camera.

In real life, I am a commercial director and was a marketing director in the chemical industry.
The least I can say is that the marketing message was not appropriate.
It is not a serious problem for me, just the feeling that I have really missed the point...

I think Canon should better adjust their marketing message.
This bizarre R5 marketing message has created a huge hope in the video makers community and now is creating a huge disappointment.

Reading other posts from CR members I understand these R5 and R6 bodies are a big satisfaction on the photographic/still side...
So why promoting 8K video feature for the R5? Especially if this feature is dramatically limited because of overheating issues?

This is not the first time Canon is criticized on products that are in fact very good products but surprisingly marketed...


----------



## telemaque (Sep 1, 2020)

baker21 said:


> So sonys option at $3k is a steal. Its a cine camera 1st. Then xlr k3m gives you x l r inputs 4 channels. Plus polarpro Mattebox with ND filters gets you 95% there.
> 
> With proper Rig you can't go wrong. Add about another $1500-$2000.
> 
> Still less than $6k though. And still FF. If you own EF glass A7siii should be an option for video.. if you own RF glass then A7siii is Not for you unless u sell your glass.



Thanks for your different posts. Looking myself for a video camera, I read them with great interest.
I have some EF lenses and was impressed by the different reviews of the Sony A7S iii.

Have you experienced Sony with EF lenses? 
Were you happy with the results?
Any adaptor to highlight or MC11 is good enough?

Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Same here mate. Just took the decision to return my R5 and get an a7siii.
> Im quite amazed though how Sony played canon. They won the war.
> And I’m even convinced that when the a7iv comes out it’ll be a more capable hybrid than the R5.
> 
> Time to invest in some good FE glass now.


Glad you're gone. I ditched two A7III's and Sony's not as good glass to remain a Canon user.


----------



## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

baker21 said:


> I feel for canon R5 users tbh. The way canon hyped this camera up It was best thing since sliced bread. 2x stats not disclosed during all the hype. #1 DR canon knows how to test dr and when its amazing they surely tell ppl and brag. The c300iii did 16+ and it was marketed everywhere. The other one is R5 and the codecs. No pro line h264 was telling to me. I never thought sony would fo it. Truth is h265 is not backed by cpus yet. Power to edit not there. U need proxies.
> 
> As for R5 and ninja to get 4k prores kinda a workaround. With Sony a7siii you use ninja to get 16bit raw linear = 12bit log raw. If it good enough for Arri its good enough for me. Sony using pro fx9 codec is bc of R5 specs. Who says competition ain't good.
> 
> If I owned R5 I'd be on them for h264 pro codec!!


Another Sony troll.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> Another Sony troll.


How so?


----------



## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> How so?


He just joined Saturday and he feels sorry for R5 users. His words, not mine. Another is StevenSteven. He just joined in June and is openly dissing the R5 then says in a more recent post he returned his to buy his beloved Sony. He's a liar. He never had the R5. These trolls come on here and try to spit venom then leave never to be heard from again.


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## akramography (Sep 1, 2020)

baker21 said:


> If your wife let's you..
> 
> Basically got 2x options.. buy it and don't tell her..
> (She will find out but fight later is still worth it)
> ...



looooooool


----------



## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> Glad you're gone. I ditched two A7III's and Sony's not as good glass to remain a Canon user.


Glad ?! Why glad? Was it making you sad before in your everyday life that I was using a canon ?


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> He just joined Saturday and he feels sorry for R5 users. His words, not mine. Another is StevenSteven. He just joined in June and is openly dissing the R5 then says in a more recent post he returned his to buy his beloved Sony. He's a liar. He never had the R5. These trolls come on here and try to spit venom then leave never to be heard from again.




hahaha this has got to me the most hilarious post I've read.... and the most RIDICULOUS ONE TOO! 
Do you realise that you are way worst than these Sony trolls you mention? You are a worshiper! it's the worst kind of people on forums. 
That's it, one person expresses disapointment with a canon product, and all of a sudden, I'm a troll and liar ?! 

I have been a canon user for 10 years. Check my instagram in my signature if you don't believe me. 5dmkiii, then moved on to the 1dxmkii and stayed with it for 4 years. Then I was an early adopter of the EOS R when everyone hated it, and then I pre ordered the R5 from my retailer right when it was teased in February. 
Also, I have been reading this forum for years. Never felt like joining the forum before, but I had the urge too in June because we are going through the most exiting times in terms of camera releases so I wanted to join. 

I didn't see myself as a Sony troll or canon basher. I came on here to give my experience about using the R5 for video after 1 full month of intense use! I actually thought it could be an interesting one. Unlike everyone else, I explained that overheating has never been an issue for me during one month of use... Isn't that a good break from all the overheating nonsense ? I explained that I decided to leave canon, which breaks my heart cause I really wanted to love it, for many other reasons than over heating. 

So what? I am not allowed to like the r5? Is this forum just a place where you are allowed to express love for it, and if you don't like it you must stay silent ? Your'e pathetic. 

And not that I need to justify myself, but just to prove how ridiculous you are, I am attaching a photo of the canon r5 that I never had because I am a liar Sony troll. 
And to make sure that you don't tell me im just a tester, I also attach a photo of my collection of EF primes. 

You're a fool.


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## Kit. (Sep 1, 2020)

telemaque said:


> Honestly, I also understood R6 to be a Video camera...


I think there was an expectation on this forum (in pre-Coronavirus times) that Canon would release two EOS R cameras in the first half of the year: one higher-megapixel stills-oriented cameras, one lower-megapixel video-oriented camera.

It was probably started by this rumor.

Then again, people used to see 5D2 as a video camera, and there is nothing wrong with it.


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## telemaque (Sep 1, 2020)

Kit. said:


> I think there was an expectation on this forum (in pre-Coronavirus times) that Canon would release two EOS R cameras in the first half of the year: one higher-megapixel stills-oriented cameras, one lower-megapixel video-oriented camera.
> 
> It was probably started by this rumor.
> 
> Then again, people used to see 5D2 as a video camera, and there is nothing wrong with it.



You are right, all these debates are coming from expectations of the customers.
Everyone sees a new body with his personal expectations in mind.

Personally, on the photography side, I am very pleased with my 6D, only printing with my Epson L1800 mostly A4/Letter size pictures.
Rarely A3 size pictures. So I don't really need a brand new body for that.

On the video side, it is very different. I am eager to find a tool that could produce high IQ video and use my Canon lenses for that.
I saw mirrorless cameras as being mostly video centric cameras, but I heard the explanations of CR members and now I see this is adding also a lot to photographers. It will clearly change my way at looking at mirrorless bodies.

The fact camera bodies can now also shoot videos is mixing expectations of two communities (photo and video communities) that have very different expectations. We see these debates between these two communities in forums and they are tough discussions.

I think brands should maybe clarify a bit better their "commercial target" and market each body with the right marketing messages.
It would avoid all these unnecessary debates.

Canon did it with their high megapixel 5Ds... clearly photographers were the target.
But the R5 marketing has confused me and maybe more people than only me.

Sony in this, is managing this more clearly.
You have an hybrid version, a pure photographic body (high pixels), a pure video body (12m pixels).

I don't think Sony is producing better products than Canon but their marketing message is more clear and therefore creates less misunderstanding of both communities.

I think Canon should consider this.
These debates are not helping their brand image.

Once you have bought a Canon body and use it for a while, you know the incredible high quality of Canon products... even a decade after their launch.
Too sad to see Canon's image disturbed by bizarre, surprising or unappropriate marketing messages!


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 1, 2020)

telemaque said:


> You are right, all these debates are coming from expectations of the customers.
> Everyone sees a new body with his personal expectations in mind.
> 
> Personally, on the photography side, I am very pleased with my 6D, only printing with my Epson L1800 mostly A4/Letter size pictures.
> ...


The A7RIV and the A7siii are both also hybrid cameras. They are both very good in both video shooting full frame 4K with log profiles and unlimited recording and both shoot 10+. FPS raw with deep buffers and top 1-2 autofocus in photos. They have specialties but are fully functional in both environments.

It’s so weird to see people trying to justify Canons segmentation and limitation by mentally segmenting on their own. Most other companies are creating hybrid Mirrorless cameras that are limited by the hardware capabilities given they have already developed the software, Canon’s cameras are limited by their own software and design whether the cameras are physically capable or not.


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## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> hahaha this has got to me the most hilarious post I've read.... and the most RIDICULOUS ONE TOO!
> Do you realise that you are way worst than these Sony trolls you mention? You are a worshiper! it's the worst kind of people on forums.
> That's it, one person expresses disapointment with a canon product, and all of a sudden, I'm a troll and liar ?!
> 
> ...




Bye!! Go away. Nobody cares about your instagram. Why do people like you need to fill the pathetic emptiness in your life by trying to be better than everyone else? You start out by making posts about about why the R5 is bad then you finally make a post that you are returning the R5. Good. Then move on mate. No, you had to put others down with your "superior" troll-like abilities. Why do you try justify your own decision to purchase the Sony by putting other's purchases down? You display all the symptoms of a typical troll. 

Go to the Sony forums. They'll gladly accept you. You can show off photos of your R5 you no longer have and all your Canon glass you sold at a loss and the other Sony users will think you're a God. You'll be lauded as a top expert.

I'm glad I got a pathetic mess like you to spend so much time responding to me with photos and everything. HAHAHAHA!!!!


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> hahaha this has got to me the most hilarious post I've read.... and the most RIDICULOUS ONE TOO!
> Do you realise that you are way worst than these Sony trolls you mention? You are a worshiper! it's the worst kind of people on forums.
> That's it, one person expresses disapointment with a canon product, and all of a sudden, I'm a troll and liar ?!
> 
> ...



I prefer my forum debates without the ad hominem comments as well, but I thought I'd chime in here maybe to shed some perspective on things as a long time CR reader and why sometimes people here get worked up about "Sony Migration Commentary" because I, for one, am really tired of it and the attendant flame wars. 

I think the vast portion of people on this site form part of a passionate Canon community. Most of us are experienced enough to know that we can get great photos or videos regardless of the brand of camera in our hands. Many of us also shoot across brands, a lot of my clients are armchair experts on cinematography and photography who insist on camera x, y or z so I have shot using every single brand on the market and I would hazard a statement that not one of my clients would know what the hell I was shooting on just by looking at the finished image. 

But I come here because my favorite personally preferred cameras are made by Canon. I like geeking out with other people who also love Canon. There are many reasons for that personal bias and yes in recent years I have really hoped for their sensor tech to catch up with some competitors, but it is my OPINION that no one makes glass the way Canon does or cameras as durable in the field as Canon does or supports their cameras as Canon does and I base all of that on personal experiences which may be unique to me. 

But most importantly for me: THE GLASS. And is that a personal preference? Yep. Do other companies make awesome glass? Yep. Have I tried to shoot with Canon glass on other cameras and found the experience unenjoyable? Yep. (Native glass works best within its own system. If you shoot Sony, buy Sony glass.)

And all of that is far more important to me then momentary technology lags. Do I sometimes wish that a certain piece of technology is in a Canon camera? Of course. Does it stop me from loving Canon? Nope. Do I still get buyer anxiety when about to put $5-$17K down on a new camera? Of course. And I have to live with that anxiety until I start filming with it or taking photos with it and seeing that the images are gorgeous and clients pay for them and I get my investment back. 

Don't come to a party with a bunch of people who are passionate about something and say that you hate the party or didn't want to come to the party or that the party sucks. You are inevitably going to step on people's toes and feelings especially when we know that the reason you are saying that is based on personal experience or preference that we don't share. At some point, the reaction is going to be: WHY THE HELL DID YOU COME TO THE PARTY TO PISS ON THE CAKE!?!?!?! 

Maybe you think everyone at the party is stupid, opinionated, drinking kool-aid, whatever. But most of us are happy to be at the Canon party because we enjoy the experiences we have with the cameras we own and we enjoy geeking out about what might be next because we are passionate about it. And frankly, if people are going to come into the party to piss on the cake, we'd rather they didn't show up and we can continue to enjoy our community even if others think it is closed-minded. 

If you want to migrate to Sony, that is your choice made by a bunch of factors and decisions that none of us have any influence over and frankly which very few of us care about. Enjoy your life. Be happy with what gear you shoot with. Take amazing pictures. But don't try and tell us that we are fools for loving the cameras we love. Sure I'd be happy to hear about your experiences on the forum in a Sony vs Canon thread and I go in knowing what to expect. But not on a thread where I want to get excited about a new piece of tech that I know I'll be able to make money with and will enable me to add more RF lenses to my lens collection (in my OPINION, the best consumer/prosumer lenses in the world).

All that being said, I hope whatever camera you buy makes the experience enjoyable for you. Seeing your 50mm 1.2 brought back many great memories of when I first used that lens. Quirky, ridiculously unsharp in parts, but drop-dead gorgeous photos when used right.


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

Im a canon lover as much as you are. I am talking about my experience switching tuk Sony because it’s hard and breaking my heart, and I wanted to discuss it and share it with other. 
I didn’t call anyone a fool for liking canon. I love canon myself. More than Sony. More than anything else (except Leica). 
I called one man a fool for insulting me, telling me I’m a liar, and calling me a troll just because I decided to buy a Sony. 
You seem like a wise person, and it’s pretty surprised that you’re not open to discussion. 

I don’t go on Sony forums because the community over there is nasty and I have no interest to talk to them. 
Pretty sad to find out that some here are no different.


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

I mean, if my opinion is not the same than you I’m unwanted here ? 
Talk about a party, I wouldn’t even like to go to diner with you


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 1, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> I prefer my forum debates without the ad hominem comments as well, but I thought I'd chime in here maybe to shed some perspective on things as a long time CR reader and why sometimes people here get worked up about "Sony Migration Commentary" because I, for one, am really tired of it and the attendant flame wars.
> 
> I think the vast portion of people on this site form part of a passionate Canon community. Most of us are experienced enough to know that we can get great photos or videos regardless of the brand of camera in our hands. Many of us also shoot across brands, a lot of my clients are armchair experts on cinematography and photography who insist on camera x, y or z so I have shot using every single brand on the market and I would hazard a statement that not one of my clients would know what the hell I was shooting on just by looking at the finished image.
> 
> ...



I think you hit the nail on the head on points as to why people are just as passionate. That guy loves his Canon stuff as much as you do. That consistency of result and feel. Most people start shooting on a crop DSLR of some sort, a lot of times canon.

So defensive that you can’t have a constructive conversation of the pros and cons. You either love it and accept it or get out with your deference of opinion. Many come here for opinions of of current users. If there was more transparency and different opinions there would probably be fewer disappointed users


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## DBounce (Sep 1, 2020)

I’m returning my R5 after having done the update. I hate not being able to just shoot and forget the camera. These timers and the ever present sword of damocles, that is the specter of overheating just zap the fun out of the whole experience for me. I might come back when the Canon becomes reliable again. Who knows, maybe that will be the C70... if it’s not crippled in some horrible way? Until then I still have my launch day A7S3 preorder coming on the 24th.


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

DBounce said:


> I’m returning my R5 after having done the update. I hate not being able to just shoot and forget the camera. These timers and the ever present sword of damocles, that is the specter of overheating just zap the fun out of the whole experience for me. I might come back when the Canon becomes reliable again. Who knows, maybe that will be the C70... if it’s not crippled in some horrible way? Until then I still have my launch day A7S3 preorder coming on the 24th.



Be careful, you’re about to be insulted and thrown out of this forum. You can’t not love your R5. You’re not allowed to say S word here apparently.


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I mean, if my opinion is not the same than you I’m unwanted here ?
> Talk about a party, I wouldn’t even like to go to diner with you


Understood. But that's the difference see: if you said, hey let's go to dinner to talk about your experiences shooting on a Sony vs a Canon and I had time for that I would say: AWESOME! Let's swap notes and see what you like vs don't like, etc... and I could tell you why I have a Sony A7SII as my backup night cam and am willing to deal with the pain of using camera glass on that. But that's not THIS discussion.

But you showed up to a dinner party where the topic of conversation was: POSSIBLE AWESOME NEW RF CINEMA CAMERA! And in that discussion, you say "I'm leaving Canon to go to Sony." It has nothing to do with having an unwanted opinion. It has to do with when and where you are making your opinion stated.

I have been waiting anxiously since the release of the RF lenses for an RF Cinema Camera because I so badly want to shoot with them on a Cinema Camera and as of now, Canon is the only brand close to having a Cinema camera with RF glass fully working (RED Komono is still a ways off).

No problem anytime discussing my opinions about Canon vs Sony. But not on a thread talking about a new Canon RF Cinema Camera. Just open a thread in the forum and invite me to the party. I'll show up.


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

You’re crazy. Someone mentioned the a7siii. I think it was bakker21. I reacted to one of his posts and replied. It’s just where the conversation was aheaded. 
When I take someone to diner, I don’t send him a program before of what I’m going to speak. I just speak freely, wherever the conversation takes me. 

I explained on details why I wasn’t liking my r5. Furthermore, to calm things down a bit, it turned out not to be the overheating issue, but the bad dr of the sensor in video. 

If you think I was going to ask for permission to talk about a Sony switch before I did you’re just crazy.


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## DBounce (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Be careful, you’re about to be insulted and thrown out of this forum. You can’t not love your R5. You’re not allowed to say S word here apparently.



That’s just silly. For some it’s all about the shooting experience. This is after all, an art form. And unless someone is buying the camera for me, I’m free to state my opinion after having owned it since launch. I still have $12k just in RF glass... and another $15k in EF... so I’m hoping Canon produces a body worthy of that glass. But in its current state the R5 imo, is not that body. Too bad, there is a lot to like about the R5... but for me the experience has been ruined.

And for the record... I’m not leaving Canon to go with Sony. We own multiple systems... Sony, Canon, Panasonic and Blackmagic.We still have an Eos R. I’m just not jumping on the R5 as I do not feel it’s well rounded enough for my personal shooting needs.

The question is, will the C70 bring enough to the table to be worth the significant premium over a Sony A7S3? Professional XLR with 4ch can be added to the Sony. Granted C70 brings internal ND... but I own many external ND filters anyway. And while the promise of the DGO sensor and 16 stops of dynamic range sounds fantastic... the Sony’s 15 stops is not too far off the mark, and may be arguably more capable at higher ISOs. All this in a much smaller and lighter package. We’ll know more soon I’m sure. But certainly things are getting interesting.


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head on points as to why people are just as passionate. That guy loves his Canon stuff as much as you do. That consistency of result and feel. Most people start shooting on a crop DSLR of some sort, a lot of times canon.
> 
> So defensive that you can’t have a constructive conversation of the pros and cons. You either love it and accept it or get out with your deference of opinion. Many come here for opinions of of current users. If there was more transparency and different opinions there would probably be fewer disappointed users


Totally agreed. But I'm coming here in the Canon RF Cinema Thread to talk about that: Canon RF Cinema. I don't even feel the need to defend my opinion, because my opinion is not "Canon makes the best cameras in the world" it is "Canon makes the best cameras for me." I would never say what camera is right for another person. I have no clue as to their life, their career or their needs. I'm much more of a "The wand chooses the wizard, Harry" sort of guy. 

It sucks that the R5 has left a portion of the hybrid shooters dissatisfied, but I just wish I could find one in stock anywhere. But most frustrating of all is that the Canon Rumors guy hasn't updated this article with any of the other photos he can't show. lol. 

If the comments in this thread were about the Sony FX9 experience vs Canon C300MKII/III or Canon C500II experience I'd be all over it and open to healthy debate.


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> You’re crazy. Someone mentioned the a7siii. I think it was bakker21. I reacted to one of his posts and replied. It’s just where the conversation was aheaded.
> When I take someone to diner, I don’t send him a program before of what I’m going to speak. I just speak freely, wherever the conversation takes me.
> 
> I explained on details why I wasn’t liking my r5. Furthermore, to calm things down a bit, it turned out not to be the overheating issue, but the bad dr of the sensor in video.
> ...


Steeven Steeven. Chill on the personal attacks. That's just not healthy. I'd absolutely want to know what I was meeting with someone about before I met with them. Unless we were long-time friends (which we are not). Did I say anything to insult you? No. I just said I don't share your opinion, and if in your opinion that makes me crazy, well, that's just your opinion man. (Insert Big Lebowski GIF here). Do you have something you want to say about the Canon RF Cinema C70? I'm interested to hear it. That is, after all, the thread you are posting on and hence, the discussion you showed up for. Theoretically. Do you think your experience with the R5 is going to be indicative of the performance of a rumored C70? Please explain why. 

I'm interested to hear about the Dynamic Range of the R5 and if you think they are going to use the same sensor in this camera, then that might be a concern, but rumour has it that it will be the C300MKIII sensor which has 16+ stops DR DGO sensor which is mind-boggling for a camera at that price. 

So what would be awesome is, if you think that the C70 will have the same sensor as the R5, please post a picture showing the problem you found on the DR so I can see that. I'd actually super appreciate it.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Furthermore, to calm things down a bit, it turned out not to be the overheating issue, but the bad dr of the sensor in video.



Which is which is weird, I wonder what goes into the decision to include or not include the Log 2/3 profiles? It used to be a paid upgrade for regular log. I wonder what the tangible difference is?

You have to think at least offering a paid upgrade for log profiles and no 29:59 min record limit would reduce the number of product returns. It has to expensive reselling open box or refurbished. I hit the 29:59, playing around with the camera and didn’t notice. It’s not a huge thing but just something to manage. Kind of takes away from the Canon just works a bit.... but definitely not more than taking just the right amount of yellow and green out of most Sony files


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> Totally agreed. But I'm coming here in the Canon RF Cinema Thread to talk about that: Canon RF Cinema. I don't even feel the need to defend my opinion, because my opinion is not "Canon makes the best cameras in the world" it is "Canon makes the best cameras for me." I would never say what camera is right for another person. I have no clue as to their life, their career or their needs. I'm much more of a "The wand chooses the wizard, Harry" sort of guy.
> 
> It sucks that the R5 has left a portion of the hybrid shooters dissatisfied, but I just wish I could find one in stock anywhere. But most frustrating of all is that the Canon Rumors guy hasn't updated this article with any of the other photos he can't show. lol.
> 
> If the comments in this thread were about the Sony FX9 experience vs Canon C300MKII/III or Canon C500II experience I'd be all over it and open to healthy debate.



Well, there’s mine for sale on eBay now ! 300 euros below the retail price, in perfect condition. 
It’s a bargain if you’re in Europe


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Which is which is weird, I wonder what goes into the decision to include or not include the Log 2/3 profiles? It used to be a paid upgrade for regular log. I wonder what the tangible difference is?
> 
> You have to think at least offering a paid upgrade for log profiles and no 29:59 min record limit would reduce the number of product returns. It has to expensive reselling open box or refurbished. I hit the 29:59, playing around with the camera and didn’t notice. It’s not a huge thing but just something to manage. Kind of takes away from the Canon just works a bit.... but definitely not more than taking just the right amount of yellow and green out of most Sony files


As I'm not a Canon engineer, I'm simply assuming it either comes down to market segmentation or sensor limitations. I don't have the R5 yet but I do have the A7S II and 5D mark IV and paid for the CLOG upgrade and I've only used it on a few shoots when I was in really challenging light and needed just a little something more to preserve some detail in the highlights while also having more detail in the shadows and midtones. 

In most of my paid shooting work I ensure that I have a lighting environment where I don't need to use the Log profiles to get a sellable image but I'd never buy a professional cinema camera that didn't have either Log or RAW. Has to be one or the other, ideally both. The C300 Mark II had both but didn't have full frame 4K, which is why I bought the A7S2 as a back-up for sexy product shots and extreme low-light. 

The problem with the A7S2 was the data rate. I really always film with it in a WYSIWYG capacity because the maximum bitrate is 100mbs which means that is the total amount of image information I have to push around in post and it starts to break up when I start pushing too hard whether I filmed in Slog/2/3. The C300II has the CLog/2/3 plus various gamma profiles which allow me to push it harder, but in extreme low light the artifacting and noise did not produce a sellable image, but the A7S2 would and the dynamic range really wasn't an issue as I exposed for the key subject and then let the blacks fall off but with considerably less noise than the C300II. 

I'm hoping that one of the new RF Cinema Cameras is full frame (even if pricier), or failing that, that it has the C300III DGCO sensor in it. IBIS is nice but not a must, I'd rather have 4K 120 if I had to pick between the two.


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Well, there’s mine for sale on eBay now ! 300 euros below the retail price, in perfect condition.
> It’s a bargain if you’re in Europe


My recommendation: sell it 300 Euros ABOVE list price. If I could find a new R5 on the US Ebay site that was only $300 above retail I'd buy it. Right now they are selling for $1,000 or more above retail on craigslist and ebay and I'd rather save that money for the C70 or whatever it will be.

Could you please post a photo showing the DR issue you had with the R5 sensor? I'm not sure which sensor they are going to put in the C70, but I imagine it will be the R6 or the R5 sensor (as much as I wish it will be the C300III) I've looked at videoclips from the R5 on-line and they look pretty good. I've heard plenty about the overheating, but after years of working around that on my A7SII that doesn't really concern me, but I haven't seen photos from the R5 pointing out a sensor or DR issue. So if that's an actual thing, I'd like to see it.


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## Twinix (Sep 1, 2020)

Cant wait until we get new rumors and a new thread to discuss the Cinema camera(s).


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 1, 2020)

Twinix said:


> Cant wait until we get new rumors and a new thread to discuss the Cinema camera(s).


Lol right, the weekend seemed to drag on a little more than expected for CR


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## Twinix (Sep 1, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Lol right, the weekend seemed to drag on a little more than expected for CR



Yea but its always worth it and he is the one who gets it out to us. He really does do an amazing job! 

What I am excited for is that this is the C70, and we are going to see a c50 or something like that.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Sep 1, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> Steeven Steeven. Chill on the personal attacks. That's just not healthy. I'd absolutely want to know what I was meeting with someone about before I met with them. Unless we were long-time friends (which we are not). Did I say anything to insult you? No. I just said I don't share your opinion, and if in your opinion that makes me crazy, well, that's just your opinion man. (Insert Big Lebowski GIF here). Do you have something you want to say about the Canon RF Cinema C70? I'm interested to hear it. That is, after all, the thread you are posting on and hence, the discussion you showed up for. Theoretically. Do you think your experience with the R5 is going to be indicative of the performance of a rumored C70? Please explain why.
> 
> I'm interested to hear about the Dynamic Range of the R5 and if you think they are going to use the same sensor in this camera, then that might be a concern, but rumour has it that it will be the C300MKIII sensor which has 16+ stops DR DGO sensor which is mind-boggling for a camera at that price.
> 
> So what would be awesome is, if you think that the C70 will have the same sensor as the R5, please post a picture showing the problem you found on the DR so I can see that. I'd actually super appreciate it.


Y’all attacked this dude so hard for agreeing with someone else who brought up their disappointment in R5 so they ordered a A7Siii instead lol. Did it cross your mind that they may have multiple cameras across multiple camera brands as well? And that for their job, their camera lineup, and in this particular scenario the A7sIII would be better suited? Perhaps when this C70 is formally announced then it will become the better suited camera... the toxicity involved in the replies dude received straight off the back after his DR comments is not a good look for the forum. Almost every thread involves talk of other newly announced cameras, and why wouldn’t they? A7SIII, although a hybrid, should most definitely be brought up when discussing the C70 imho. It’s competition. How will DR compare. How will super 35 DGO sensor compare to Sony’s FF low light achievements. Is it marginal? How do the included tools compare? I’d like to know and see.

I’m eager for the full specs to come out on the C70 as I’ve been patiently waiting to get a c300III but wanted to see what’s around the corner. 16 stops is more of a marketed number. I would say it’s more like 13 stops usable clean DR - which is plenty for me. The R5 is supposedly similar to R at about 11 stops of clean DR, placing it close to last to competition. Hopefully CR Guy has info for us soon on C70.


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Y’all attacked this dude so hard for agreeing with someone else who brought up their disappointment in R5 so they ordered a A7Siii instead lol. Did it cross your mind that they may have multiple cameras across multiple camera brands as well? And that for their job, their camera lineup, and in this particular scenario the A7sIII would be better suited? Perhaps when this C70 is formally announced then it will become the better suited camera... the toxicity involved in the replies dude received straight off the back after his DR comments is not a good look for the forum. Almost every thread involves talk of other newly announced cameras, and why wouldn’t they? A7SIII, although a hybrid, should most definitely be brought up when discussing the C70 imho. It’s competition. How will DR compare. How will super 35 DGO sensor compare to Sony’s FF low light achievements. Is it marginal? How do the included tools compare? I’d like to know and see.
> 
> I’m eager for the full specs to come out on the C70 as I’ve been patiently waiting to get a c300III but wanted to see what’s around the corner. 16 stops is more of a marketed number. I would say it’s more like 13 stops usable clean DR - which is plenty for me. The R5 is supposedly similar to R at about 11 stops of clean DR, placing it close to last to competition. Hopefully CR Guy has info for us soon on C70.


I'm right there with you. I'm within a month of either picking up the C300III or the C500II but am sort of desperately hoping for a RF Cinema camera that checks off my boxes so I can justifiably add more glass which I can profit from. For me the A7S series only works as a back up camera not as my principal bread winner. The ergonomics and time limits make it unsuitable for my long-form interviews and I don't want to have to add an Atomos for my routine shooting. At some point I may add an A7S3 to my bag, but right now everything that I profit from is contained in the A7S2 (Full Frame 4K 24p + Low Light Extreme). I just can't use a small DSLR form factor Sony or Canon for my daily routine. To much stuff to add on to make it "just work".

PS Wasnt' trying to attack Steeven Steeven, just steer the conversation to a constructive place.


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## SteveC (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> He just joined Saturday and he feels sorry for R5 users. His words, not mine. Another is StevenSteven. He just joined in June and is openly dissing the R5 then says in a more recent post he returned his to buy his beloved Sony. He's a liar. He never had the R5. These trolls come on here and try to spit venom then leave never to be heard from again.



At least we can HOPE they leave and will never be heard from again. I could say that, also, about a couple of more long-time users who threw the same "I'm sending my R5 back" tantrum. OK, then, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, fellas.


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Y’all attacked this dude so hard for agreeing with someone else who brought up their disappointment in R5 so they ordered a A7Siii instead lol. Did it cross your mind that they may have multiple cameras across multiple camera brands as well? And that for their job, their camera lineup, and in this particular scenario the A7sIII would be better suited? Perhaps when this C70 is formally announced then it will become the better suited camera... the toxicity involved in the replies dude received straight off the back after his DR comments is not a good look for the forum. Almost every thread involves talk of other newly announced cameras, and why wouldn’t they? A7SIII, although a hybrid, should most definitely be brought up when discussing the C70 imho. It’s competition. How will DR compare. How will super 35 DGO sensor compare to Sony’s FF low light achievements. Is it marginal? How do the included tools compare? I’d like to know and see.
> 
> I’m eager for the full specs to come out on the C70 as I’ve been patiently waiting to get a c300III but wanted to see what’s around the corner. 16 stops is more of a marketed number. I would say it’s more like 13 stops usable clean DR - which is plenty for me. The R5 is supposedly similar to R at about 11 stops of clean DR, placing it close to last to competition. Hopefully CR Guy has info for us soon on C70.



Thank you. I appreciate that you took the time to make me believe that I was not crazy, cause I started asking myself if there was something wrong with me. Thank you thank you. I am grateful.


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> I'm right there with you. I'm within a month of either picking up the C300III or the C500II but am sort of desperately hoping for a RF Cinema camera that checks off my boxes so I can justifiably add more glass which I can profit from. For me the A7S series only works as a back up camera not as my principal bread winner. The ergonomics and time limits make it unsuitable for my long-form interviews and I don't want to have to add an Atomos for my routine shooting. At some point I may add an A7S3 to my bag, but right now everything that I profit from is contained in the A7S2 (Full Frame 4K 24p + Low Light Extreme). I just can't use a small DSLR form factor Sony or Canon for my daily routine. To much stuff to add on to make it "just work".
> 
> PS Wasnt' trying to attack Steeven Steeven, just steer the conversation to a constructive place.



I still think that I was being constructive. My a7siii comments/questions were in comparison to the rumoured c70. And at least I was not whining about the overheating, but about others, real issues of the camera. Isn't that refreshing ? No pun intended. 

Anyway, let''s leave it at that before this conversation overheats...


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## HarryFilm (Sep 1, 2020)

How to FIX ANY OVERHEATING CAMERA!

a) Wrap camera in cheap icebox cooled gel packs bought at local Dollar Store!

b) Put camera in cage and attach fan on cage body (not on the camera body!) 
The fans can be quite low-RPM USB-power CPU-style cooling fan to minimize noise.

c) Remove battery to blow COOL areas into exposed areas by powering camera from laptop-style external power packs (via 5 volt to 18 volt connectors depending upon camera) which I attach underneath the camera on the cage. I have also REMOVED the battery doors completely to blow fan air into the battery compartment to cool the camera faster which HAS worked on many cameras I've used.

d) I've even used a LIQUID COOLING setup taken from a GPU graphics card and drilled some holes in the block to allow me to put the liquid cooling block in-between the base-plate on the bottom of the camera and the tripod. The base-plate of many cameras TENDS to be part of the magnesium and/or aluminum interior body of the camera so you can then create a high-difference thermal conduction path which can cool the camera VERY QUICKLY !!! I've done that on the Canon 1Dx2's and 1Dc's for Astrophotography so I get less noise on the sensor!

e) I've also taken apart a few company 7D2's and drilled holes in the bottom of the camera interior body to also cool a sensor faster for night photos (the head honchos won't let me drill into the 1Dx2/s1Dcs --- Just the 7D's and 5Dmk2's!) via direct liquid cooling attachment to the internal body itself out to an external GPU cooling block. Kinda voids any warranty BUT it does work! 

f) If you're open to it, you can also put the ENTIRE camera minus lens into the refrigerator BEFORE you shoot to give you more runtime. You get about 10 more minutes on the R5 when you do that! But be aware of condensation issues (fridge air needs around three degrees Celcius and no lower and humidity should be SAME as outside air!)

g) For the kicker, I've also COOLED the outside air immediately surrounding me and the camera using a portable BUT VERY QUIET passive water chiller. It can cool the immediate air down to around 2 to 4 degrees Celcius! Again, mostly done for astro-photography! Haven't tried that with the R5 yet, but I may do that as an experiment soon!

h) Move to Edmonton or Calgary, Canada in Winter and shoot photos and video at -35 C outside!

Hope that helps!

V


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## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

SteveC said:


> At least we can HOPE they leave and will never be heard from again. I could say that, also, about a couple of more long-time users who threw the same "I'm sending my R5 back" tantrum. OK, then, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, fellas.



It's not so much that I want them to leave, I'd prefer they just contribute to the topic at hand. Instead they come here and find a way to incorporate their love of Sony/incompetence of Canon into a thread that isn't about that at all. Instead they show that they have a full complement of Canon glass and that makes it ok for them to bash Canon. Weird. What they should be doing is going over to Sony forums and learning all they can about Sony lenses/codecs/color, etc. etc.

I find these types to be the ones that want something for nothing. What I mean by that is they want RED/ARRI specs in a sub $2K MILC body with a full bevy of lenses and peripherals at Chinese knockoff prices. All you have to do is read other forums like DPReview or Sony Rumors and you'll find them all over. There are so many that think the A7SIII is overpriced and cannot believe it doesn't have at least 30 megapixels. If you want RED/ARRI performance then buy one of those cameras. 

These are the same people that get upset that Honda doesn't offer Ferrari/Lamborghini/Bugatti performance for the price of a Civic.


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## cornieleous (Sep 1, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> How to FIX ANY OVERHEATING CAMERA!
> 
> a) Wrap camera in cheap icebox cooled gel packs bought at local Dollar Store!
> 
> ...




Just.... no. Or buy the right equipment for the job. This thread is about cinema cameras. Please, enough with the overheating garbage and these armchair solutions.


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## Ozarker (Sep 1, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> How to FIX ANY OVERHEATING CAMERA!
> 
> a) Wrap camera in cheap icebox cooled gel packs bought at local Dollar Store!
> 
> ...


Well, just don't forget to drain the condensate inside the camera when cooling in those ice packs.


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I still think that I was being constructive. My a7siii comments/questions were in comparison to the rumoured c70. And at least I was not whining about the overheating, but about others, real issues of the camera. Isn't that refreshing ? No pun intended.
> 
> Anyway, let''s leave it at that before this conversation overheats...



Thanks for a calmer answer. For me what would make this conversation end in a beneficial/constructive manner would be if you would be willing to actually post a photo (or a video) you took with the R5 that demonstrates "the real issues of the camera" that made you return it. That way I, and others here could see if these problems are actual problems for us, or are problems for your specific use-case scenario. It would also help us see if these will be problems that will follow into the C70 if it ends up having the same sensor as the R5. 

So: Do you have a photo or video you took with the R5 that you could share with the community that could demonstrate the issues you have a problem with? I'm not saying you have to share it, but it sure would add credibility to your argument. And yes, I did actually take the time to check your Instagram and I think you have some beautiful work, so I really WOULD be interested in seeing an example of why the R5 didn't work for your needs. 

Otherwise, I have no context to your argument that I can see with my own eyes and then either agree or disagree with you based on my opinion if it is an issue for my use. 

So help us out here: Please post a photo or a video so we can see it for ourselves and see what the real issue was.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 1, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Well, there’s mine for sale on eBay now ! 300 euros below the retail price, in perfect condition.
> It’s a bargain if you’re in Europe


Are you returning it (as you stated) or selling it on eBay (as you now state)?


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## SteveC (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> It's not so much that I want them to leave, I'd prefer they just contribute to the topic at hand. Instead they come here and find a way to incorporate their love of Sony/incompetence of Canon into a thread that isn't about that at all. Instead they show that they have a full complement of Canon glass and that makes it ok for them to bash Canon. Weird. What they should be doing is going over to Sony forums and learning all they can about Sony lenses/codecs/color, etc. etc.



But we know they won't change that behavior. They'll barge into any thread on any topic AND CHANGE the topic. One will start, and others will feel justified in responding in the same vein.

Since they've demonstrated that they won't be housebroken...they should leave.


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## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

SteveC said:


> But we know they won't change that behavior. They'll barge into any thread on any topic AND CHANGE the topic. One will start, and others will feel justified in responding in the same vein.
> 
> Since they've demonstrated that they won't be housebroken...they should leave.


And now, instead of returning the camera as stated, they are selling it on EBAY. Hmmm.


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## SteveC (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> And now, instead of returning the camera as stated, they are selling it on EBAY. Hmmm.



Yeah, well they may be unhousetrained, but they're going to go ahead and make a thousand bucks flipping the camera they call useless.


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## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Yeah, well they may be unhousetrained, but they're going to go ahead and make a thousand bucks flipping the camera they call useless.


And here's something else I find funny/weird/whatever about these supposed "artists" claiming they never seem to be able to find the right tool to do their jobs. They will list all these specs that already exist in a higher priced camera (ARRI/RED/whatever) but NEVER purchase said camera. I just don't understand.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> I find these types to be the ones that want something for nothing. What I mean by that is they want RED/ARRI specs in a sub $2K MILC body with a full bevy of lenses and peripherals at Chinese knockoff prices. All you have to do is read other forums like DPReview or Sony Rumors and you'll find them all over. There are so many that think the A7SIII is overpriced and cannot believe it doesn't have at least 30 megapixels. If you want RED/ARRI performance then buy one of those cameras.



This is so lazy and such an over simplification if anyone that would want more of their camera and still be on the same system.

I would literally pay more to have the same camera body for both video and photo And it have some of the basic features of competitors. Clog 2/3, no 29:59 record limit, unlimited 4K mode (even if cropped) on R6 , at least mini HDMI (we’ve always had it).Very basic specs, but limiting to not have them.... but to want them , “go buy a cinema camera”.

Thats a very valid conversation point. It’s not really so much that you always use all of the features all the time but creativity is based on pushing your boundaries, if the boundaries are preset your creativity is also limited. Again, no big deal but it matters to think what you can do vs what you can’t. On the other hand using the my R6’s for about a week now the photography experience is so much better than my A7RIV(likely selling). It’s a much more confident camera than the R. And don’t get me started on the Sony app.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Sep 1, 2020)

Tony Bennett said:


> And here's something else I find funny/weird/whatever about these supposed "artists" claiming they never seem to be able to find the right tool to do their jobs. They will list all these specs that already exist in a higher priced camera (ARRI/RED/whatever) but NEVER purchase said camera. I just don't understand.


You find it funny/weird/whatever that people don't want to shed out $40K - $80K on a ARRI/RED/whatever? A lot more goes into owning a cinema camera like that. The team loves working with the Mini LF. Doesn't mean its not nice to have a small hybrid to pick up in a random burst of inspiration when we want to film something that isn't on set.... When there is no team... To question someone's profession, whether artist, filmmaker, photographer is a bad look . We use an array of cameras to achieve what we want to create. Interested to know what specs are getting listed? 



SteveC said:


> Yeah, well they may be unhousetrained, but they're going to go ahead and make a thousand bucks flipping the camera they call useless.



Who called the camera useless? This guy throws insults in almost every thread. If someone has decided that at its current state, the R5 is not for them, why care? Because they criticized something that is a deal breaker on a specific camera body that another camera body does better? 

Err, evil competitor brand boys infiltrating our forums to sabotage the precious... We swears to serve the master of the precious... We swear on the precious.... 

Look - there will always be selling points to each camera body that buyers will value differently. Maybe it'll be different in 6 months as Canon pushes more R5 firmware updates, but until then, I suspect there will be returns with valid reasons just as there will be valid purchases. No reason to be rude to those that vocalize they've decided to return it. The a7SIII is going to be better for some while the R5 will be better for others, and get this... Some will buy both while others pass on them entirely. What!? I know... Crazy to think about. Some will wait for this C70. Can't wait forever. Honestly... We could make an entertaining film with a 60D. Luckily, 10 years later, we have many camera bodies and tools to choose from for our specific use cases. 

So many read through these threads with this protective, paranoid mindset... Not everyone is trying to bash Canon... Many want the exact opposite for the brand. Many are fans of all the brands because they really just love cameras.


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## Tony Bennett (Sep 1, 2020)

Trolls Unite!!! They just keep coming. They can dish it but cannot take it.


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## Darecinema (Sep 1, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> This is so lazy and such an over simplification if anyone that would want more of their camera and still be on the same system.
> 
> I would literally pay more to have the same camera body for both video and photo And it have some of the basic features of competitors. Clog 2/3, no 29:59 record limit, unlimited 4K mode (even if cropped) on R6 , at least mini HDMI (we’ve always had it).Very basic specs, but limiting to not have them.... but to want them , “go buy a cinema camera”.
> 
> Thats a very valid conversation point. It’s not really so much that you always use all of the features all the time but creativity is based on pushing your boundaries, if the boundaries are preset your creativity is also limited. Again, no big deal but it matters to think what you can do vs what you can’t. On the other hand using the my R6’s for about a week now the photography experience is so much better than my A7RIV(likely selling). It’s a much more confident camera than the R. And don’t get me started on the Sony app.


Hey RTM. You know I used to feel the same way when I was using the 5D Mark 2 about having one camera to do both but in the end after doing this for so long I really found that if I am going to shoot a pro video or short film or tv series that I prefer the ergonomics of a dedicated cinema camera. Completely setting aside the sensor, etc... just pure human ergonomics and then when doing a photo shoot that the Cinema Camera body just isn't comfortable for taking photos with regardless of technical capability. 

For all my personal projects I find that the hybrid specs in either camp work just great at the higher end but I want my DSLRs or Mirrorless to stronger on the photo side than video. But that's my personal preference. In the end, they are all tools and whichever will get the job done best should be used.


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## SteveC (Sep 1, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> You find it funny/weird/whatever that people don't want to shed out $40K - $80K on a ARRI/RED/whatever? A lot more goes into owning a cinema camera like that. The team loves working with the Mini LF. Doesn't mean its not nice to have a small hybrid to pick up in a random burst of inspiration when we want to film something that isn't on set.... When there is no team... To question someone's profession, whether artist, filmmaker, photographer is a bad look . We use an array of cameras to achieve what we want to create. Interested to know what specs are getting listed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The fundamental problem with their behavior is/was NOT criticising the "precious" but rather invading every single thread on this forum for two weeks to do so, whether or not it had anything whatsoever to do with the R5 OR video. (OK, they DID spare the threads that are people showing off their pictures--thankfully.)

In fact we're having this conversation _*on a C70 thread*_ simply because somebody had to bring up his R5 overheating complaints on it. That's why I've been calling them "unhousetrained" because they don't know where to defecate.


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## Kanon (Sep 1, 2020)

So...... any updates CanonRumors?
been waiting all weekend for this.
.....
“I hope to be able to publish the full specifications sometime this weekend.”


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Are you returning it (as you stated) or selling it on eBay (as you now state)?



My god, you’re so anal! Why do you even care? I’m returning it TO THE WORLD. My point is that I am getting rid of it. 


I wish I could just walk into the store and return, but I cant ! Its not America here. We’re not free like you guy are. 


Once you bought it, its too late. You cant return it and get your money back, even if it’s a minute later and you havent opened the box.
So when I said I return it, it means im getting rid of it on eBay, to buy something else with the money. Why do I even have to justify myself to you.


This is pathetic.


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> Thanks for a calmer answer. For me what would make this conversation end in a beneficial/constructive manner would be if you would be willing to actually post a photo (or a video) you took with the R5 that demonstrates "the real issues of the camera" that made you return it. That way I, and others here could see if these problems are actual problems for us, or are problems for your specific use-case scenario. It would also help us see if these will be problems that will follow into the C70 if it ends up having the same sensor as the R5.
> 
> So: Do you have a photo or video you took with the R5 that you could share with the community that could demonstrate the issues you have a problem with? I'm not saying you have to share it, but it sure would add credibility to your argument. And yes, I did actually take the time to check your Instagram and I think you have some beautiful work, so I really WOULD be interested in seeing an example of why the R5 didn't work for your needs.
> 
> ...




Ok… let’s see.


If that’s ok with you, yes, I ask permission, I will give you the answer that comes from my heart, hoping it will mean something. If it doesn’t, I promise to answer more technically and with proofs.





Let me clarify a couple things first:



When I complained about the DR, it was in video, not stills. As a matter of fact, the R5 is probably the most capable stills camera I have ever used. It is a MASTERPIECE FOR STILLS.
I am not a technical guy. I don’t pixel peep. I’m not sure I could tell the difference between the 4KHQ and the 4K line skipped. And I don’t care for it either. When I complain about DR, its not in a technical way. I am not Gerald Undone.




As a matter of fact, a camera is a tool for me, to express myself. I do everything with it (except work). It’s my passion. I film my kids, I shoot short films, I shoot feature films.
I am on this forum, because I also turn out to be a gear geek. I love trying new stuff. I have tried every camera system you can imagine (with a dominance for Canon).


There is a point when I stop thinking about specs. About DR stops, about overheating, about codecs… There is a point where I pick up my camera, I literally smell it, I kiss it, and I go out to shoot. When I come home, I don’t watch the footage first. I just wait and feel grateful for what just happened.





Then, I look at what I produced. And it procures a feeling, a mood to me. I either like, or I don’t. For ever, I tried every camera, and always went back to canon, because canon gave me the feeling of loving what I did. What I tried to say this time, is that for the first time, Sony has surpassed canon. There is something in the Sony image that I finally find mesmerising. Cinematic to my eye. And its not just the image itself, its the experience of using the camera. The ergonomics, the reliablilty, its effortless.





One of the reason why I mentioned it on this thread is because I reacted to a guy who said he was switching. Same for me. And its so goddamn hard. I want to cry. I feel like im betraying the brand I’ve been loyal to for years. Im afraid even. But this time it feels right. In I find some confort in documenting (out loud) that experience.





The other reason why I spoke about this here is because the last thing that could have stopped me from not going to Sony just yet was the C70 itself !!!!!


I thought for a while that it could be the companion to the R5 for real filmmaking, because even if I love photos, I am a FILMMAKER above all. Thats why I got into a comparison discussion between the c70 and the a7siii. People compare the c70 to the c300ii, Gerald Undone said he cancelled his c300ii for an a7siii. So it seemed relevant to me to ask the question:





IS THE A7SIII better than the c70 (or the c300mkii). I still want opinions on this….





But to conclude, my happiness will eventually not come from specs. It will come from a feeling I get, using and producing with a camera. I just cant tell myself that a camera will get in the way of what I want to produce… Does it make any sense?





I will finish my telling you that on my shelf tonight I have an R5 and an A7Riv. Two of the best worlds camera, by spec. Guess which one is systemically pick up every time I want to go out to shoot?


No, not systematically. Instinctively. I instinctively, passionately pick up the …. Leica M10P. The worst specs I own. The best rendered image I have seen in a camera.

Do you understand me?





Much love,


Stev


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## stevensteven (Sep 1, 2020)

I should add for the stubborn ones that my problem with the r5 in video is mainly the Dr. which means to me that when I shoot, unless the conditions are perfect, I can’t manage to have a well exposed face and a well expose sky. The sky looses color way to fast and becomes blown out.

excuse also my bad English. I make Efforts. I’m French.


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## dba101 (Sep 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I should add for the stubborn ones that my problem with the r5 in video is mainly the Dr. which means to me that when I shoot, unless the conditions are perfect, I can’t manage to have a well exposed face and a well expose sky. The sky looses color way to fast and becomes blown out.
> 
> excuse also my bad English. I make Efforts. I’m French.


I think everyone fell asleep.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Sep 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I thought for a while that it could be the companion to the R5 for real filmmaking, because even if I love photos, I am a FILMMAKER above all. Thats why I got into a comparison discussion between the c70 and the a7siii. People compare the c70 to the c300ii, Gerald Undone said he cancelled his c300ii for an a7siii. So it seemed relevant to me to ask the question:
> 
> 
> IS THE A7SIII better than the c70 (or the c300mkii). I still want opinions on this….



Many are in the same boat - that is waiting on these releases and cameras to become available to test and decide which to purchase. The best advice I can give is to be patient. Wait for the cameras to become available so you can either rent them or experiment with them during the return window. Rent the lens you'll use with the camera ( If you don't already own it) and make a short film over a weekend. Play with the footage. See what results you're able to get. Focus on the feeling you have when using them. It is hard to wait... I've grown impatient, myself... But it is not like your quality of work is dropping because you are not getting a new generation camera right from the start. A new camera won't improve an untrained operator... Or something like that.

The DR on the A7SIII & C300III are similar at ~13 stops clean / usable, but other factors are at play, right?

FF vs S35 ( if it matters to you).
Form Factor
DCI aspect ratios (C300III)
Shutter Angle (C300III)
Tally light (C300III)
XLR inputs (C300III)
Lens selection ( And your current lens library)
Built in NDs (C300III)
Canon Cinema Raw ( C300III)
16-bit linear RAW to 12-bit ProRes RAW up to 4Kp60 using Ninja V ( A7SIII)
Frame rates
AF
Ease of use
Storage options
*price
I've seen beautiful and atrocious footage from both cameras on YT/Vimeo. I think that is why its important to know how/what you shoot and to actually get your hands on one before making a decision. We can watch reviews all day long, but you won't know for sure until you smell it yourself, right? You could download clips people have uploaded too... Play with them in Resolve / Adobe.

We need more info on the C70 and need one in hand before making assumptions on it. I like the versatility of the RF mount for sure.

I thought I would be getting a new camera in 2020... But its looking more and more like 2021 as its already September  No worries tho!


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## Darecinema (Sep 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Ok… let’s see.
> 
> 
> If that’s ok with you, yes, I ask permission, I will give you the answer that comes from my heart, hoping it will mean something. If it doesn’t, I promise to answer more technically and with proofs.
> ...


Hi Stev, I completely understand and what you are describing to me on the experience above the specs is of course a huge factor in any buying decision I make on gear. 

For me beyond anything, beyond specs, beyond ergonomics, sensors, etc, etc, is the final image and does the camera + lens enable me to realize what my artistic skill can accomplish and not detract from it. As JIM JIM correctly said, I've also seen the world's best cameras make some pretty glorious trash. 

But I believe we've reached a point where pretty much any camera you have these days is technically capable of meeting the skill level of any photographer and so one must fall back on the overall experience and enjoyment to judge where to invest oneself in. A good camera system should last a lifetime. Camera bodies will come and go. Lenses are forever. And we have the luxury in stills photography of being able to afford some pretty incredible lenses. (Cinema lenses...ouch...Arri Master Primes...I don't have enough kidneys).

I have had my C300 II since it first launched, I actually got to use a pre-production model for my first feature which was fun. I also shot it seamlessly as a B-Cam to an Arri Alexa for Netflix series and no one noticed the difference. That has a lot to do with accurate lighting and preparations, but still I was proud of the camera. I shot a documentary shoot in the pouring rain at sunset which bricked my A7S2 immediately, but my Canon C300II kept shooting despite being drenched with water and the lens never failed either. 

I have been desperately waiting for an RF version of either the C300 or the C500 so that as a businessman I can afford to make the investment and recoup the costs. I just make way more money from my cinema work than my photographic work. But the photographer in me has been dying to get the new RF lenses since I first played with them. 

So I check CR about 5 times a day waiting for news on the RF cinema camera. And I know if it is going to have the same specs as the C300 III or C500 II in an RF format I will be it the instant it is available. My C300 II was my first "huge" camera purchase. But it paid for itself in 6 weeks, and if I hadn't had it, I wouldn't have gotten the job that paid for it, they didn't want a DSLR on that shoot, they wanted to see a PRO camera, even if I could as good shots with a smaller camera. 

On the Leica, I understand. As I said, it is the final image that counts. Whatever gear gets you that result for your personal satisfaction or your client to pay you is simply the shoes you wore to make the journey. That you got there is more important than the brand on the shoes. (That's a terrible analogy). 

Anyways. I really really hope that one of the new RF Cinema Camera is basically the C500 II with RF mount. Sure 120 fps at 4K would be nice for some specific shooting, but 95% of what I do is 24fps anyways.


----------



## Darecinema (Sep 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Many are in the same boat - that is waiting on these releases and cameras to become available to test and decide which to purchase. The best advice I can give is to be patient. Wait for the cameras to become available so you can either rent them or experiment with them during the return window. Rent the lens you'll use with the camera ( If you don't already own it) and make a short film over a weekend. Play with the footage. See what results you're able to get. Focus on the feeling you have when using them. It is hard to wait... I've grown impatient, myself... But it is not like your quality of work is dropping because you are not getting a new generation camera right from the start. A new camera won't improve an untrained operator... Or something like that.
> 
> The DR on the A7SIII & C300III are similar at ~13 stops clean / usable, but other factors are at play, right?
> 
> ...



Excellent analysis. And while I don't have either the A7S3 or the C300 III yet, I did have the A7S2 and the C300 II and still do and still film and make money with both. I really don't want to buy the C300 Mark III or C500 Mark II unless it comes with an RF Mount. I'd rather hold out a bit longer because as you said, it's not like not having them is affecting my ability to get work or continue to make money. But I really want to have a two camera set-up that isn't C300 Mark II and Sony A7S II or 5D Mark IV. I'd much rather have two cinema cameras as my A-Cam and B-Cam. 

At the end of the day, for me, there are four major deciding factors (because let's face it, the technology is so good, that's not getting in the way of shooting a great story at this point): 

1. Price difference. 
2. Ergonomic difference
3. Ease of experience. 
4. Client Perception.

*1. Price difference* is far less on A7S3 and C300 III than previous iterations. I paid $17K with tax for C300 II and I think $2799 for A7S2. Now after you add all the accessories you will need to the A7S3 to make it set-up and reliable enough for continual shooting day by day weeks on end, the cost difference between C300 III and A7S3 with all support gear will likely be less than $3,000 (SWAG). And stills are miserable on the A7S2 so I don't expect much of an improvement on the A7S3. After trying to use the A7S2 as my "sometimes" photo camera, the experience was so bad I went and bought a 5D IV to upgrade my old 5D II and have used it since with amazing results. 

*2. Ergonomic Difference. *Carrying around a fully rigged A7S2 with Inferno and all other accessories so it's Cine ready just gets tiring and inconvenient after a while. It's okay for a bit. But as the days turn into weeks and weeks turn into months, it loses its appeal. It's a lot of extra work continuously and time is money, when I'd rather have the right body out of the bag. I'm video-centric though, but I promise you for photo-centric shooters the A7S line is not a rewarding photo/video experience. That's either the Sony A92 or A7RIV or the Canon 1DX Mark III or 5D IV or R5. 

*3. Ease of experience. *My greatest frustration with Sony video other than color has always been autofocus. Filming a fast-moving horse competition at 200mm - 400mm inside a poorly lit stadium or incredibly brightly backlit arena and trying to nail focus can be unbelievably frustrating whether pulling by myself or with an a/cam. But the C300 II nailed it with autofocus every damn time. It's sorcery level good. Plus I don't have to change cards in long interviews. Plus no record limits. Plus ridiculously tough weather sealing that has gone through storms, snow, desert, etc....The Canon DPAF autofocus allows you to get impossible shots that only the top focus pullers in the world would be able to nail so repeatedly. I was always curious why Sony never put the A7SII/III sensor in a pro-cinema body such as the FX7 or FX9. 

*4. Client perception.* Unfortunately in the very real world of charging a lot of money, you need to look the part. And when an ad agency art director sees you step onto the set with a DSLR body as your A-Cam, they automatically form opinions on your qualifications and capabilities. Clients are the same. You show up with a cinema camera and they just feel "they are getting their money's worth." It's worse than this though, many clients these days aren't willing to pay good rates for good artists, but will pay good rates for good gear that they can google and see is high-level. So the life of the owner-operator is tied to the quality and sellability of the gear just as much as his work.


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I should add for the stubborn ones that my problem with the r5 in video is mainly the Dr. which means to me that when I shoot, unless the conditions are perfect, I can’t manage to have a well exposed face and a well expose sky. The sky looses color way to fast and becomes blown out.
> 
> excuse also my bad English. I make Efforts. I’m French.



Thats not the cameras fault, thats technique, even with 14+ Dynamic Range you’d still have blown out skies trying to expose an underexposed face. Filming in RAW can help.

- Get a reflector, change angles or composition to add exposure to your models face.
- Get a graduated ND filter
- Sometimes a Polarizer can work but only if you angle yourself properly with the sun to get the polarizing effect.
(I’m sure you know all of these techniques, also I dont believe the R5 has Clog 2 or 3, which must crush the DR)

To your previous message about hoping for C500 RF, that wont happen just yet. Rumors show a C200 - and C300 equivalent and even there they seem to have omitted CineRaw, I’m hoping the audio preamps are just as good.
I’m looking at the C50 and not C70 to compliment my C200.


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## stevensteven (Sep 2, 2020)

MaxDiesel said:


> Thats not the cameras fault, thats technique, even with 14+ Dynamic Range you’d still have blown out skies trying to expose an underexposed face. Filming in RAW can help.
> 
> - Get a reflector, change angles or composition to add exposure to your models face.
> - Get a graduated ND filter
> ...



You say, it's not the camera's fault, it's technique. In other words, it's not the tool, it's the operator of the tool. In other words, it's my fault? In other words, I don't know how to use my camera ? In other words, my claim of the DR gap being too big between the R5 and the C300iii/A7SIII is wrong ? 
It's ok, you assume I am a beginner. I guess it's normal. You don't know me. You don't know what type of filmmaker. You don't know what I've achieved before, what I've achieved this year. 
So I'll answer in the most simple way. 
On a bright day, in harsh light, it's complicated to get a well exposed face and sky (no one talked about an under exposed face, only you did) the DR is just not there. The highlights blow out too quickly. With an A7III, it just works. Even if you're a beginner. The DR is better in video on the a7iii than on the R5. Imagine the a7siii. 
I am looking forward to clog 3, but the truth is I don't think the sensor has it. I think the difference will be minor. It will never reach the level of the c300iii. That's all I am saying. 
I also don't think it's surprising. The R5 has other things to offer to compensate for that. 

Regarding the C500RF, it wasn't my comment, but I agree that it's not coming just yet.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Sep 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> You say, it's not the camera's fault, it's technique. In other words, it's not the tool, it's the operator of the tool. In other words, it's my fault? In other words, I don't know how to use my camera ? In other words, my claim of the DR gap being too big between the R5 and the C300iii/A7SIII is wrong ?
> It's ok, you assume I am a beginner. I guess it's normal. You don't know me. You don't know what type of filmmaker. You don't know what I've achieved before, what I've achieved this year.
> So I'll answer in the most simple way.
> On a bright day, in harsh light, it's complicated to get a well exposed face and sky (no one talked about an under exposed face, only you did) the DR is just not there. The highlights blow out too quickly. With an A7III, it just works. Even if you're a beginner. The DR is better in video on the a7iii than on the R5. Imagine the a7siii.
> ...


Dude was just trying to say that it is challenging to expose for both face & sky but that there are ways to supplement it. No one is attacking you, calling you a beginner, or saying you’re wrong. They mentioned they didn’t know your level and then offered some supplements. We got it, you have an issue with DR on the R5. Rightfully so. You obviously have a high opinion of your work - thats great. Not sure why you’re getting defensive then. Sony claims same amount of stops of DR on both A7iii & A7Siii. Hated the 8-bit on the A7III.

Rent the cameras you’re interested in and experiment when they are available.


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## stevensteven (Sep 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Dude was just trying to say that it is challenging to expose for both face & sky but that there are ways to supplement it. No one is attacking you, calling you a beginner, or saying you’re wrong. They mentioned they didn’t know your level and then offered some supplements. We got it, you have an issue with DR on the R5. Rightfully so. You obviously have a high opinion of your work - thats great. Not sure why you’re getting defensive then. Sony claims same amount of stops of DR on both A7iii & A7Siii. Hated the 8-bit on the A7III.
> 
> Rent the cameras you’re interested in and experiment when they are available.



I'm defensive because I've been attacked for no reason here for the past 24 hrs. 
I probably became a little bit sensitive now. 
I may have a high opinion of my work, but I try to measure this as objectively as possible. I also know how hard I worked to get where I am today. I am proud.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> I'm defensive because I've been attacked for no reason here for the past 24 hrs.
> I probably became a little bit sensitive now.
> I may have a high opinion of my work, but I try to measure this as objectively as possible. I also know how hard I worked to get where I am today. I am proud.


All good. Much Respect to the passion. Tone it down a bit though. If you get that upset on even unfair (If it is) opinions, you won’t make it long. The internet and customers are full of opinions and don’t care how you feel.


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> You say, it's not the camera's fault, it's technique. In other words, it's not the tool, it's the operator of the tool. In other words, it's my fault? In other words, I don't know how to use my camera ? In other words, my claim of the DR gap being too big between the R5 and the C300iii/A7SIII is wrong ?
> It's ok, you assume I am a beginner. I guess it's normal. You don't know me. You don't know what type of filmmaker. You don't know what I've achieved before, what I've achieved this year.
> So I'll answer in the most simple way.
> On a bright day, in harsh light, it's complicated to get a well exposed face and sky (no one talked about an under exposed face, only you did) the DR is just not there. The highlights blow out too quickly. With an A7III, it just works. Even if you're a beginner. The DR is better in video on the a7iii than on the R5. Imagine the a7siii.
> ...


Hey buddy, Sorry you took my message as an attack tho you can clearly see I said “You probably know all of these tricks anyways”
Not doubting your talents or knowledge only addressing your issue... are you not here for advice to help out or just to speak you grief, it could be settings and usage. I know for a fact if your using a canon profile other then C-Log you’ll severally blowout highlights even on my C200 its C-Log 2/3 or bust. You might also be overexposing C-Log. I think the IRE need to be at 36-40 for neutral gray.

Google this video on YouTube: Canon EOS R5 - How Bad Is The Dynamic Range On The Canon R5
You’ll see Blue Skies, Clouds and a properly exposed face. Lots of DR!


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## telemaque (Sep 2, 2020)

Waov, I came here to see if specs of C70 had been released and I discovered this conversation thread has changed direction.
The temperature moved up here quite a bit since my last post...

Not unusual in forums... In fact there is a reason for that.

As a sales person I learnt for my job that* 70% *of the message a person is sending comes from his *body language*. 15% from the tone you use and 
*ONLY 15% from the words* or the real content.

In a forum, as only words are visible, it is easy to misunderstand a post, because* in reality 85% of a normal message is missing !*

I am sure, if you would have had the same exchanges in a bar, and you could have seen your respective body languagues and tones, this conversation would have gone another direction. I am convinced, only people with passion and good intentions are here.

It would be great to learn a bit more about the C70 specs !

Thanks


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## stevensteven (Sep 2, 2020)

telemaque said:


> Waov, I came here to see if specs of C70 had been released and I discovered this conversation thread has changed direction.
> The temperature moved up here quite a bit since my last post...
> 
> Not unusual in forums... In fact there is a reason for that.
> ...



one hundred percent


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## HarryFilm (Sep 2, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Just.... no. Or buy the right equipment for the job. This thread is about cinema cameras. Please, enough with the overheating garbage and these armchair solutions.




---

Actually, EVERY CAMERA is right for the job! We've put Canon 1Dc's with Zeiss Otus lenses into high and low orbit! We've put 25 year Sony VX3's camcorders under the wings of bombers. Even those TOUGH AS NAILS VTech cameras made for kids, we've strapped to diving bells in emergency conditions for cheap but good 480p or 720p footage of underwater operations.

Whatever it takes, we do it! We're not gonna put a bunch of $100,000+ Sony Venice or Red Monstro systems on the side of a space rocket to be wiped out by solar radiation so instead we bought all the Canon 1Dc's and 1Dx 2s and Sony A7s2s we could off Ebay and put in 500 gigabyte memory cards stuffed into external heat-resistant/rad-hardened metal and ceramic boxes with some delayed wireless transfer gadgets instead of Atmos external recorders and THEN strapped them to the side of a bunch of rockets and spaceplanes!

The C70 might actually work out for us if they release it this year.

Right now we're kinda stuck since we're only able to snipe so many Ebay camera sales. Our parent company is literally the single-handed-reason WHY it's pretty hard-to-find decent used Canon and Sony camera gear online. We snipe almost all the major auction sites and buy it all up! We buy THOUSANDS of used APS-C and Full Frame 2K and 4K cameras for our projects! If you can't find it used online, you can probably BLAME CANADA cuz we're likely the LARGEST source of the problem!

So once A**** finally does release those fancy Global Shutter Medium Format 60 fps DCI 8k/50.3 megapixel combined stills/video cameras with that super-fancy visually lossless codec in it THEN we can finally use those super-duper new cameras instead of the Canons.

But right now, we're stuck with our inventory of 5D mk2/3's, 7D2s, 1Dx/1Dx2's/1Dx3's and Sony/Fuji cameras which we can afford to destroy if we want point-of-view videos on high performance aerospace systems. Like I said earlier, we're not gonna put our C500/C700's or Phase Ones, Venices, Reds or Arri Alexas on the outside of an aerospace platform where it will be TOASTED to a nice sunburnt crisp!

Heck, we even use smartphones as cinema-style cameras! We've strapped a LOT of Sony Xperias with the OS'es modded for full RAW 10-bit video capture (the DSP on Xperia smartphones can handle RAW 10-bit HDR easy!) to the outside of jets and under the keels of boats. It works GREAT!

And again, once A**** finally releases their fancy new large-sensor DCI 8k super-smartphones with APS-C and 2/3rds inch global shutter sensors to the public, we can finally transfer the lower end jobs for skydivers, airplanes, robots, cars, boats, UAV's, etc to get GREAT footage from those! For now, we still rely on hundreds of modded Sony Xperias stuffed into polycarbonate boxes to do the lower end jobs!

---

So our suggestions come from LOTS OF EXPERIENCE! We're like the Marines! We make do with what we have! We modify, build/rebuild, change, add, re-configure, etc to MAKE old camera gear work for OUR HIGHLY CUSTOM NEEDS!

And YOU CAN TOO if you're willing to void your warranty conditions!

Anyways, this C70 sounds like a half-decent Stunt Camera and even at $3000 to $6000 would likely work GREAT as a "Crash Cam" or strapped to the underside of an F16/F18 !!! Can't wait to get a few samples. We'll put a few on pre-Purchase Order and I'll play with it when it comes in!

V


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## HarryFilm (Sep 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> You find it funny/weird/whatever that people don't want to shed out $40K - $80K on a ARRI/RED/whatever? A lot more goes into owning a cinema camera like that. The team loves working with the Mini LF. Doesn't mean its not nice to have a small hybrid to pick up in a random burst of inspiration when we want to film something that isn't on set.... When there is no team... To question someone's profession, whether artist, filmmaker, photographer is a bad look . We use an array of cameras to achieve what we want to create. Interested to know what specs are getting listed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




---

In case anyone is wondering, the 29:59 record limit is a European Union-only TAXATION limit imposed by UK, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, etc on ALL video gear. They put an extra 10% to 35% tariff on top of the manufacturer wholesale price on ANY still camera or video system that can record for 30 minutes or more!

If it's LESS than 30 minutes the manufacturer DOES NOT have to pay the higher import tariff which is WHY many stills and video cameras have the 29:59 recording limitation! It makes your European-destination cameras 200 to 1000 Euros CHEAPER than they otherwise would be!

Sooooooo, DO NOT BLAME Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, etc for that recording length limitation but rather BLAME YOUR OWN GOVERNMENTS for such taxation crappola! Ergo, YOU NEED TO GO AND VOTE THEM ALL OUT OF OFFICE and put someone much more sensible into government so as to REMOVE those ridiculous import rules and taxes!

Here in North America (i.e. Canada and USA), we have no such ridiculous tax rules so all my still cameras have no such video recording length limitation! It's also WHY our audio and video gear tends to be the equivalent of HUNDREDS OF EUROS cheaper than in UK, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, etc.

V


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## Deleted member 384473 (Sep 2, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> In case anyone is wondering, the 29:59 record limit is a European Union-only TAXATION limit imposed by UK, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, etc on ALL video gear. They put an extra 10% to 35% tariff on top of the manufacturer wholesale price on ANY still camera or video system that can record for 30 minutes or more!
> 
> ...


What an interesting connection to my reply lol. Did you quote the right comment? Interesting points.

I think there are probably more pressing issues than the EU import duty tax on video cameras (29:59+) that one should be politically active for. What camera are you using? Your Canon stills cameras in NA will have the 29:59 limit, just like the rest of the world. This is odd considering rumors that the EU tax was supposedly fading away in 2019? Maybe that was just a rumor I heard during a deep slumber one summer night... Sony found a way to ditch the 30 minute limit worldwide on its latest hybrid, why didn't Canon? Maybe it doesn't matter since many use an external recorder on hybrids for the benefits. Easy to edit codecs, exposure tools, luts, brighter screen, time limit bypass... An *artificial* time limit ranks low on my list of fixes & wishes for our current family of hybrids though I wouldn't be opposed to abolishing it if given the chance. Now I know there are rumors floating around about an artificial heat limit placed on the R5 that I don't wish to entertain since it ventures into tin foil hat territory... Would be sad if at all true, but who knows.


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## telemaque (Sep 2, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Actually, EVERY CAMERA is right for the job! We've put Canon 1Dc's with Zeiss Otus lenses into high and low orbit! We've put 25 year Sony VX3's camcorders under the wings of bombers. Even those TOUGH AS NAILS VTech cameras made for kids, we've strapped to diving bells in emergency conditions for cheap but good 480p or 720p footage of underwater operations.
> 
> ...



Your job seems to be an exciting one... Reading it, I felt the pleasure it must be to do it.
Maybe some days are hectic, I suppose sometimes it is tough to make it happen, but obviously exciting.

Any footages could be shared with us? Or is it confidential?

I would love to see what you get as a video result !


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> What an interesting connection to my reply lol. Did you quote the right comment? Interesting points.
> 
> I think there are probably more pressing issues than the EU import duty tax on video cameras (29:59+) that one should be politically active for. What camera are you using? Your Canon stills cameras in NA will have the 29:59 limit, just like the rest of the world. This is odd considering rumors that the EU tax was supposedly fading away in 2019? Maybe that was just a rumor I heard during a deep slumber one summer night... Sony found a way to ditch the 30 minute limit worldwide on its latest hybrid, why didn't Canon? Maybe it doesn't matter since many use an external recorder on hybrids for the benefits. Easy to edit codecs, exposure tools, luts, brighter screen, time limit bypass... An *artificial* time limit ranks low on my list of fixes & wishes for our current family of hybrids though I wouldn't be opposed to abolishing it if given the chance. Now I know there are rumors floating around about an artificial heat limit placed on the R5 that I don't wish to entertain since it ventures into tin foil hat territory... Would be sad if at all true, but who knows.


Correct the tax is gone. It is a software limitation.

Panasonic has the same 29:59 limit in the newest S5 , for overheating purposes they say.

It’s also only in the 4K and 120 . Regular 1080, there is no limit.


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## SteveC (Sep 2, 2020)

telemaque said:


> Your job seems to be an exciting one... Reading it, I felt the pleasure it must be to do it.
> Maybe some days are hectic, I suppose sometimes it is tough to make it happen, but obviously exciting.
> 
> Any footages could be shared with us? Or is it confidential?
> ...



If he had a job like that, he wouldn't be talking about it online; they frown on that. In other words, he's a bullshitter.


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## rontele7 (Sep 3, 2020)

What is the point of a rumors site that doesn’t post rumored product photos? 

It’s almost been a week, just post the pics, no?


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## Deleted member 384473 (Sep 3, 2020)

rontele7 said:


> What is the point of a rumors site that doesn’t post rumored product photos?
> 
> It’s almost been a week, just post the pics, no?


Either three things come to my mind.
1) CRGuy wants to respect relationship with who ever gave the leak and has to abide by the ask as to when to show specs/pics to continue getting more leaks

2)Strategic timing to keep traction on CR forums

3) maybe was only given the above photo?

Who knows! Sure CR Guy will post about it soon.


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## Darecinema (Sep 3, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> one hundred percent


Hey Stev, I had a funny experience today which I thought I'd share since it's kindaaaaa relevant to where this discussion was gone. A few months back I had a friend call for some sample photos she desperately needed for an audition for a beach catalog shoot and I'm like, hmmmm there isn't a beach within 5 hours of driving...but I have a water fountain in my apartment complex hahahaha. I said sure, she ran over and I realized I left my 5D Mk IV at the office. But I had the RP I had given my daughter for her birthday and I did the shoot. 

Anywho today, I stumbled on the photos and thought to myself they came out pretty good for no preparations and a completely random location using the nearby building as my reflector (and lots of security guards watching intently - obviously because they were curious about the camera hahahaha). Then the metadata popped up and reminded they were shot on the RP and I had been thinking they were shot on the 5D Mark IV. 

Anyways my point is this: if I hadn't seen the metadata I would've just assumed they were on the Mark IV. The RP is a way cheaper camera than the 5D Mark IV but it still takes terrific photos and yet I heard someone else on another post saying how terrible the RP sensor was. I really think no matter what the specs are of the C70 we can expect it to take terrific images, because at the end of the day, I think Canon understands that is what will be remembered.


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## telemaque (Sep 3, 2020)

Darecinema said:


> (and lots of security guards watching intently - obviously because they were curious about the camera hahahaha).



Beautiful pictures. I particularly like the number 2.

Seeing the pictures, I felt I could understand the security gards... the camera was very attractive!


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## dboris (Sep 3, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Actually, EVERY CAMERA is right for the job! We've put Canon 1Dc's with Zeiss Otus lenses into high and low orbit! We've put 25 year Sony VX3's camcorders under the wings of bombers. Even those TOUGH AS NAILS VTech cameras made for kids, we've strapped to diving bells in emergency conditions for cheap but good 480p or 720p footage of underwater operations.
> 
> ...



I'm jealous of your job *-*


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## HarryFilm (Sep 4, 2020)

telemaque said:


> Your job seems to be an exciting one... Reading it, I felt the pleasure it must be to do it.
> Maybe some days are hectic, I suppose sometimes it is tough to make it happen, but obviously exciting.
> 
> Any footages could be shared with us? Or is it confidential?
> ...



---

We are a 3rd party supplier to a few SatPhoto and Stock Footage sites so you've likely already seen some of our footage. I don't usually do that part of teh photos supply so I don't actually know WHICH images were from us as I am in the Computer Graphics Development division. None of the imagery we have is assigned a Secret, Top Secret Compartmentalized Sensitive Information tag so just look for rocketry footage in google and if its from a 1Dc is probably ours.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 4, 2020)

SteveC said:


> If he had a job like that, he wouldn't be talking about it online; they frown on that. In other words, he's a bullshitter.



---

None of the imagery or systems I have access to is assigned a Secret, Top Secret Compartmentalized Sensitive Information tag, so just look for rocketry footage in google and if its from a Canon camera it's probably ours. 

It also means YES I actually CAN talk about as we are CANADIAN company and NOT under any auspices of the U.S. Department of Defence (other than as probably/likely a secret supplier -- Although I don't have access to that information --- I just do Computer Graphics Programming!)

It also helps that I've known THE OWNER personally for 30+ years so I'm given quite a bit more leeway than the actual employees. It also happens that I would NEVER BE GIVEN ACCESS to anything that is sensitive so your supposition is a moot point anyways. 

I can definitely talk about the things I PERSONALLY KNOW ABOUT as I would NEVER be given sensitive stuff in the first place. Well..... maybe except for the upcoming 50.3 megapixel/DCI-8k 60 fps global shutter MF-sensor camera and the APS-2/3rds global shutter sensor super-smartphones that's all coming out soon enough ......... but that's only because I did the CODEC for them! ;-)  ;-)

So NO! The parent company DOES NOT FROWN upon me blabbing about because I would never be given access to the S or TS:SCI stuff in the first place! And YES I helped stuff a 25 year old Sony VX3 handycam under the wing of a 1950's era bomber and tie a VTECH 480p kids camera into a polycarbonate box on a local diving bell (tough little suckers those VTECH kids cameras!) AND YES I've hacked a 1Dc onto the side of a 100km ceiling weather research rocket (the 1Dc gave SPECTACULAR footage by the way on that one!). Again, we make do with what we have and MAKE IT WORK!

I'm on the commercial side of things although I should note we do have a nice VERY TOP TOP TOP SUPER SECRET aerospace-planform sitting in a hangar at YVR i've been allowed to sit in the 4th seat on for a few trips --- Let us also say hint hint nudge nudge "I've Got My JAFO Wings" !!!

V


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## analoggrotto (Sep 4, 2020)

EOSHD can take a hike, pewdiepie knows more than that guy.


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## dba101 (Sep 5, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> None of the imagery or systems I have access to is assigned a Secret, Top Secret Compartmentalized Sensitive Information tag, so just look for rocketry footage in google and if its from a Canon camera it's probably ours.
> 
> ...


Harry, my mate reckons the earth is flat. After sending that 1DC up there, could you please enlighten me as to whether it is or isn’t flat please.
I think your posts are great.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 5, 2020)

dba101 said:


> Harry, my mate reckons the earth is flat. After sending that 1DC up there, could you please enlighten me as to whether it is or isn’t flat please.
> I think your posts are great.



---

It's NEITHER Flat nor Round! It's actually an Oblate Spheroid. (i.e. it's a squished ball!) The imagery looks like a large parabola from 100km (about 328,000 feet) up with a VERY THIN looking dark blue/white/purple atmospheric boundary line that shows just how THIN our atmosphere really is and we better not mess up our air because there really isn't anywhere for us to go that's not already taken ..... ;-)  ;-)

V


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## dba101 (Sep 6, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> It's NEITHER Flat nor Round! It's actually an Oblate Spheroid. (i.e. it's a squished ball!) The imagery looks like a large parabola from 100km (about 328,000 feet) up with a VERY THIN looking dark blue/white/purple atmospheric boundary line that shows just how THIN our atmosphere really is and we better not mess up our air because there really isn't anywhere for us to go that's not already taken ..... ;-)  ;-)
> 
> V


Thanks for taking the time to reply. Awesome.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 7, 2020)

dba101 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply. Awesome.



---

The weather rocket with the Canon 1Dc is actually one of our older cameras we've put up into space up to 100km high (which is actually only NEAR-SPACE!).

Right now at 1500 km (900 miles) and 30,000 km (22,000 miles) above in eccentric non-stable orbits, are our custom-built, high end imaging systems which consist of 131,072 by 131,072 pixel (i.e. computer-oriented 128k by 128k resolution) at a 1:1 square aspect ratio GLOBAL SHUTTER CMOS image sensors organized as stereoscopic sensors that are doing continuous environmental imaging tasks taking a set of photos about every 30 seconds which get compressed into a giant intra-frame compressed Wavelet movie (i.e. All I-frames) downloaded twice per day allowing us to see multiple sunrises and sunsets over a single day. (1.5 hour to 2 hour orbits)

Since we put TWO lenses on both the satellites, the images we get are 3D once we display them on our RGB laser projection system in an interleaved manner which is the only system that can display 16-bits per channel colour (i.e.48 bits RGB color plus a 16-bit Alpha Channel = 64-bit RGBA pixels).

It's probably the ONLY fully ITAR-free western-nation satellite system in existence, so we can do whatever the heck we want with our custom built imagery and imaging/lens technology! I can ALSO tell you with full exposure, that we're using ACRYLIC lenses organized in series quite similar to a high end Canon Sports Broadcast Zoom lenses which allows us FULL zoom-in/zoom-out and full 6-axis stabilization ability.

Because they are plastic lenses, you need to shield from the sun via a millimetres-thick tungsten coating on all the outer assemblies and lens hoods to prevent UV-based and other EM-bands-based clouding, yellowing and embrittlement/deterioration. We use OPTICALLY CLEAR ACYRLIC because this specific custom formulation has a FAAAR superior refraction index and lower diffraction limits than fluorite glass lenses!

I can ALSO tell you that our maximum resolution is 3 cm per pixel (1.18 inches) which is WHY we have to use High Refraction Index Acrylic lens elements because glass lenses have a diffraction limit that limits true resolution to about 10 cm per pixel. SO YES I absolutely CAN read your licence plate and with appropriate DSP imaging software even some newspapers from high orbit!

ONLY the NRO/NSA has an imaging system that approaches ours and THAT is only because they have some really fancy Digital Signal Processing software on their mirror-based imaging systems (i.e. USA-224 or newer NRO-operated satellites) which can make a 20 to 30 cm per pixel image look like a 5-to-10 cm per pixel image. We're STILL BETTER though than the NRO's gear!

We have 8x the clarity and more than 64x the resolution of the ORIGINAL resolution of this image:








File:2019-08-29 Safir launch failure.jpg - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





(the satellite image you see above was actually dumbed down by someone at the NRO to hide its true resolution -- This one is about 20 to 30 cm per pixel in my estimation while ours is 8x clearer/more detailed per axis)

V


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## AlanF (Sep 7, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> ...... We use OPTICALLY CLEAR ACYRLIC because this specific custom formulation has a FAAAR superior refraction index and lower diffraction limits than fluorite glass lenses!...


How does the material of the lens affect the diffraction limits - the diffraction limit is caused by the ring of material around the lens?


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## HarryFilm (Sep 8, 2020)

AlanF said:


> How does the material of the lens affect the diffraction limits - the diffraction limit is caused by the ring of material around the lens?




Optical-grade Acrylic has a much higher index of refraction than fluorite glass which means alignment of lens elements needs to be more precise once you get above the 2+ metre threshold for the diameter of individual lens elements so that chromatic aberation doesn't occur (I'm not an optical scientist so my understanding is somewhat limited!). You're trying to PREVENT the spread of light-rays into areas where they shouldn't be going within a given lens and sensor assembly!

The parent company uses electro-hydraulics-based adaptive optics where lens elements are moved by a series of electric + hydraulic motors as fast as 300 movements per second to align the lenses for perfect imagery for elements that ARE LARGER THAN TWO METRES ACROSS. It also functions as a very large IBIS-like optical stabilization system IN ADDITION to having the entire assembly set on a 6-axis gimbal to counter the effects of orbital wobble!

That's WHY we can get 3 cm per pixel resolution because the incoming light waves are mapped by computer to specific areas of a sensor and computational photography principles ESTIMATE which parts of an image will receive how much light in what specific visible band of EM (i.e. using ray-tracing techniques) and this is done as fast as 300 calculations per second per mapped arc-degree on any given lens element. That means a total of TENS OF BILLIONS of floating point operations per second for all the lens elements combined! We actually put up a rad-hardened supercomputer system in-orbit to be able to do those calculations in real-time for auto-correction of pixel-level aberations!

Again, I'm not the optical physicist, so I can only go by what I read in our lens assembly manuals and this thing is the size of a transit bus! It's one of the more MASSIVE human-made objects in space. Bigger than the Gambit/Misty NRO satellites! Its very eccentric orbit makes it hard to spot but the upper one is Polar Orbit so it shouldn't be too hard to see in North America!

And NO I don't have it's specific orbital coordinates -- It's not a classified system but I think for commercial reason has more to do with keeping its long term weather projection abilities secret! Evidently, high end imaging systems combined with supercomputers combined with year-over-year weather and crop-growth statistics creates VERY VALUABLE WEATHER PREDICTION DATA that is used in financial markets-oriented commodity food and petroleum products options and futures purchases and sales/resales on the order of 10 or 11 digit levels per year! The licencing of that weather-related data makes for some significant income for the parent company.

P.S. This year's prediction is very dry out west for most of the year with not as much snow for the ski mountains (La Nina effects!) except for week-long bursts of precipitation that will occur sporadically but with great intensity. This means it will be mostly cooler and dryer in the pacific northwest with some short-term but intense Rainageddons in Seattle/Vancouver in November 2020 to February 2021 and several short-term Snowmaggedons in the Eastern Rockies (i.e. Denver, Colorado and Calgary, Alberta) about once every 6 to 8 weeks for the October 2020 to April 2021 period! Skiing on the west coast won't be as good as last year but the Rockies should be fine for winter snow.

The upper prairies into Canada will be colder and dryer than last year but the east coast will be dumped on rain-wise and sleet-wise. California will be especially dry with little rain but moderately cooler or warmer temperatures than last year. The lower west coast California could be 1.5 to even 2 degrees up or down from last year on average due to La Nina-related effects. South will be almost identical to last year maybe a tiny-bit dryer and cooler. The southeast (Florida and nearby states) is always harder to predict due to the water vapour uprise effects prevalent in the Virginias and Carolinas where this winter is a toss-up between Snowmageddon, Stormageddon or Sunny or all-three. I wouldn't be surprised to see some intense frost in upper Florida this year wrecking havoc on the Orange crop for 2021! (Don't blame me if all the above is completely wrong though -- it's only a limited but reasonable estimation!)

V


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## AlanF (Sep 8, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> Optical-grade Acrylic has a much higher index of refraction than fluorite glass which means alignment of lens elements needs to be more precise once you get above the 2+ metre threshold for the diameter of individual lens elements so that chromatic aberation doesn't occur (I'm not an optical scientist so my understanding is somewhat limited!). You're trying to PREVENT the spread of light-rays into areas where they shouldn't be going within a given lens and sensor assembly!
> 
> The parent company uses electro-hydraulics-based adaptive optics where lens elements are moved by a series of electric + hydraulic motors as fast as 300 movements per second to align the lenses for perfect imagery for elements that ARE LARGER THAN TWO METRES ACROSS. It also functions as a very large IBIS-like optical stabilization system IN ADDITION to having the entire assembly set on a 6-axis gimbal to counter the effects of orbital wobble!
> 
> ...


OK, you are using lenses of greater than 2m diameter, which you can make with acrylic not fluorite. For our purposes, that would mean a lens considerably higher and wider than most CR members. I suppose such a lens would enforce 2m social distancing for side-by-side photographers.


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## HarryFilm (Sep 8, 2020)

AlanF said:


> OK, you are using lenses of greater than 2m diameter, which you can make with acrylic not fluorite. For our purposes, that would mean a lens considerably higher and wider than most CR members. I suppose such a lens would enforce 2m social distancing for side-by-side photographers.



---

YUP! They're pretty big lenses but not outrageously large. SOME elements I have hear about in the more "Black Budget World" use refractive-based and mirror-based optical assemblies that are THREE metres in diameter! I only know about the publicly disclosed systems like Gambit/Misty but systems like the "Future Optics and Imaging System" that has been on the drawing board since 2010, has PROBABLY already been deployed which means that much larger lens and sensor assemblies than our two metre one! 

We use a single very-large custom-built 400mm CMOS sensor while the newer mil-spec systems use ARRAYS of multiple smaller sensors to get the equivalent of multi-gigapixel imagery. The mil-spec systems also have the equivalent of Gigabit Ethernet in space while we are restricted to between 10 to 20 megabits per second image download speeds due to the high orbit and various no-Microwave/RF-interference pacts made between the parent company and other countries for keeping various communications bands clear during most of the working day.

V


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## SteveC (Sep 8, 2020)

AlanF said:


> OK, you are using lenses of greater than 2m diameter, which you can make with acrylic not fluorite. For our purposes, that would mean a lens considerably higher and wider than most CR members. I suppose such a lens would enforce 2m social distancing for side-by-side photographers.



Don't make the mistake of believing anything he says.


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## AlanF (Sep 8, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Don't make the mistake of believing anything he says.


According to dpr the world's largest lens is 1.57m wide, which is indeed less than the 2m lenses from Harry's company https://www.dpreview.com/news/70795...ered-for-massive-3-2-gigapixel-digital-camera
But, we don't believe dpr here, do we?


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## SteveC (Sep 8, 2020)

AlanF said:


> According to dpr the world's largest lens is 1.57m wide, which is indeed less than the 2m lenses from Harry's company https://www.dpreview.com/news/70795...ered-for-massive-3-2-gigapixel-digital-camera
> But, we don't believe dpr here, do we?



It was a gigantic accomplishment (for its day) to produce a 40 inch objective for the world's largest refractor.

Anything bigger than that tends to sag under its own weight (though that's less of an issue when the lens is oriented to take pictures of stuff on the horizon).


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## HarryFilm (Sep 11, 2020)

AlanF said:


> According to dpr the world's largest lens is 1.57m wide, which is indeed less than the 2m lenses from Harry's company https://www.dpreview.com/news/70795...ered-for-massive-3-2-gigapixel-digital-camera
> But, we don't believe dpr here, do we?




===

When BACKYARD HOBBYISTS are making 70 inch (1.7 metres) reflector (i.e. mirrored) telescopes, I think a firm that is literally a BILLION+ DOLLAR AEROSPACE COMPANY can afford to CNC machine some huge blocks of optical grade acrylic into a decent set of lenses within one of the twenty-plus, high-precision 3000 mm by 3000 mm by 3000 mm volume 5-axis CNC machines it has in it's warehouses!






National Geographic Society Newsroom


Ideas and Insight From National Geographic



blog.nationalgeographic.org





Acrylic actually does seem to have less sag than fluorite due to its much lighter weight and in space this sag is a NON-ISSUE anyways where the larger issue is embrittlement, degradation and yellowing caused by solar radiation where specialized thin-film coatings are necessary to protect a plastic lens in space or on the ground.

Acrylic's high thermal expansion/contraction indexes do make it difficult to use as an actual lens element without adaptive optics and computational photography processing (i.e. IBIS and DSP) to ensure proper image sensing BUT because of modern computer abilities, this is now no longer a problem and can even be used in pro-level and consumer camera lenses if good firmware is embedded into a camera with appropriate computational photography algorithms that do a bit of post-picture raytracing computation along a lens light path.

The higher refractive index (1.55) of Acrylic vs 1.43 of Fluorite Glass makes for better optics which is WHY a two metre diameter set of lens elements floated upon electro-hydraulic rams with imagery processed by a multi-TeraFLOP set of combined CPU/GPU/DSP superchips can obtain a 3 cm per pixel resolution while in a 1500 km high orbit!

There are physical resolution limits that NORMALLY restrict such a 2 metre refractor telescope setup to about 15 cm per pixel BUT with modern raytracing and computational photography the calculated/perceived resolution obtained by software trickery is now 3 cm per pixel.

===

NOW ..... If Canon, SIGMA and SONY were to REPLACE the interior and outer lens elements of their major prime and zoom lenses with coated Acrylic plastic, that RF-mount 50mm prime lens at f/1.2 that sells for $2199 USD:









Canon RF 50mm f/1.2L USM Lens


Buy Canon RF 50mm f/1.2L USM Lens featuring RF-Mount Lens/Full-Frame Format, Aperture Range: f/1.2 to f/16, One UD Element, One Aspherical Element, Ring-Type Ultrasonic Motor AF System, Customizable Control Ring, Rounded 10-Blade Diaphragm. Review Canon null




www.bhphotovideo.com





would become an f/0.95 50mm NOCTO prime lens that could be made for HALF-THE-COST (i.e. sold for $1100 USD) and the only thing that needs to be done is an aluminum oxide/corundum thin-film sputtered coating that will create a scratch-proof surface for such plastic lens elements and some internal light path estimation, raytracing plus pixel-value re-mapping firmware added to the camera bodies!

If I were Canon, SIGMA and SONY, I would be looking at making a SEPARATE LINE of thin-film corundum/aluminum oxide-coated optical-grade high-refractive index Acrylic lenses that offer 1 to 2 stops FASTER than normal glass at HALF the weight!

Call them Nocto-Feather Prime Lenses or something like that as a brand (i.e. FAST and LIGHT AS A FEATHER!)

Hmmmm... that also means SIGMA could make a practical and LIGHT WEIGHT 135 mm-to-650 mm SPORTS ZOOM lens that is f/2.8 to f/4 which would be a SUPER-FAST zoom lens! Great for sports and action photography!

V

Thin Film Coated Optical Grade Acrylic Lens Elements!










Poly(methyl methacrylate) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org











High-refractive-index polymer - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






IT'S THE FUTURE OF FAST LIGHT WEIGHT PRIME AND ZOOM LENS TECHNOLOGY !!!

V


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## mariosk1gr (Sep 16, 2020)

With C300 Mark III DGO sensor, C70 will be an amazing camera for gimbal use, crash cam and as a b-cam in combo with its bigger brothers (c300/c500). As Komodo in 1st place was manufactured as a crash cam in mind while Hollywood was forced to use GoPros in situations with explosions, action movies, chasing cars etc. If c70 has similar dimensions as Komodo then it could fit in high end productions. For me IBIS on this camera is not a necessary thing. One thing that I feel that Canon need to provide is a better raw codec option with higher bitrate and different compressions to choose. RED Raw has the advantage there and Braw is following very closely. Canon needs to catch up there. If you have seen CineD dynamic range of the R5 for example you can see that there are 2 additional stops buried in the shadows while shooting 8k raw. With a much more efficient raw codec with different compression methods and 16-bit raw, there is an opportunity to bring these stops back with not so much noise and banding. DGO sensor has proven already its strength and capabilities ( a technology that is already present in Arri cameras for a long time). SDI from the other hand is imo a huge missing from c70.


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