# By 2020: Wishlist for EOS bodies



## dolina (Oct 9, 2017)

I hope Leica Nikon, Pentax and Sony continue to create better products than Canon.

I say this in the hopes that it forces Canon to create better products in the future. 

Features I would like to be present on any EOS body released between now and before 2020.

* CFast or SDXC UHS-II card slots with read/writes better than 167MB/s

* Use a Snapdragon 835 or better SoC because DIGIC appears to be worse in terms of performance per watt

* USB Type-C port with USB Power Delivery or Quick Charge 4.0 for charging and Thunderbolt 3 video output and data transfers

* 3.7-inch Multi-touch IPS Wide color (P3) display but never AMOLED due to burn in

* IP67 Splash, Water, and Dust Resistant

* Larger mAh battery in the same form factor.

* No AA filters

* Video bit rate @ more than 167MB/s 

* 4K @ 60fps or better

* 1080p @ 120fps or better

* Lighter weight

* Cheaper prices through consolidating to fewer SKUs and increased units produced.


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## Jopa (Oct 9, 2017)

dolina said:


> I hope Leica Nikon, Pentax and Sony continue to create better products than Canon.
> 
> I say this in the hopes that it forces Canon to create better products in the future.
> 
> ...



Wondering why exactly this number - 167MB/s. Capital "B" means "Bytes", small "b" means bits. It's a pretty significant speed if you really meant this. Even the 1dx2 shoots at about 800Mb/s which is 100MB/s.
I wish they just add a good codec like HEVC, than no one would need such a crazy throughput.


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## Larsskv (Oct 9, 2017)

I hope Canon within 2020 releases DSLRs with even more wonderful optical viewfinders. The 5DV should get the one from the 1DXII, and the 1DXIII should get a 0,8< size viewfinder. 

Personally I hope they release a small but high quality FF mirrorless system, with a new mount and L quality f2 primes: 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm.


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## dolina (Oct 9, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Wondering why exactly this number - 167MB/s. Capital "B" means "Bytes", small "b" means bits. It's a pretty significant speed if you really meant this. Even the 1dx2 shoots at about 800Mb/s which is 100MB/s.
> I wish they just add a good codec like HEVC, than no one would need such a crazy throughput.



Compact Flash (CF) cards (not CFast) max out at 167MB/s. There are SDXC cards that read/write below that speed. So I need to be explicit.

The faster the camera can write to memory will allow me to shoot again immediately because the buffer is cleared.

IIRC the a7R II writes video at 100MB/s. I want higher bitrate so when I grab a frame at 4K it will be indistinguishable to fine JPEG.

Really wish all camera companies would consolidate and back 1 memory card standard for SLR-sized devices so economies of scale could be leveraged.

As early as 2002 both point & shoots (p&s) and DSLRs used CF cards. When memory densities improved SD cards became standard with p&s, consumer DSLRs and pro DSLRs This made CF cards less in demand but narrows their specialization to fastest read/write speeds.

Needing more write/reads had CF cards being replaced with CFast and XQD cards.

This is really bad thing to happen if you want to leverage economies of scale and sales of all dedicated still cameras are also in decline.

I want cheaper & better cameras today and onwards and the only way to do that is through a less numerous SKU and increased quantities made.

I expect by the year 2020 that 256GB CF cards that are 160MB/s or 1066x will cost $50 or less.

* Add High Efficiency Image File Format (HEIF) and High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC).


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## Woody (Oct 9, 2017)

Truth be told, I have no further wishes for EOS bodies. My current EOS M5 and 77D serve me perfectly.

I just wish Canon will release an awesome EF-S 30mm f/1.4 lens.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 9, 2017)

dolina said:


> I hope Leica Nikon, Pentax and Sony continue to create better products than Canon.



But, first they have to start doing this. Of course, there are high priced models that are better than entry level models, people seem confused that comparing a $4200 camera with a $2000 camera is not a even comparison.


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## unfocused (Oct 9, 2017)

dolina said:


> ...Features I would like to be present on any EOS body released between now and before 2020...



These seem like pretty specific technical specifications, with no explanation of why they are so important to you, much less why anyone else should care. I'd like to know why you think these things are important.

My wishlist is aimed at things that I think would make my life easier, but also considering what might appeal to other photographers:


Continued incremental increases in overall image quality, recognizing there are limits, but hoping for reasonable improvements and a reasonable balance between noise, resolution and dynamic range;

In-Camera AFMA;

Universal adoption of fully functional touch screens and other improvements in user interface, to make it quicker and more efficient to move through menus; and

More intuitive and user friendly connectivity; 

I don't think it's realistic or productive to suggest rigid specifications. Canon engineers are a lot more knowledgeable about those things than anyone on any forum.


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## dak723 (Oct 9, 2017)

Today's cameras have everything I possibly need. My hope is that Canon continues to offer a FF camera that stays at/under 26 MP and a crop the stays at/under 24 MP. I understand that this sort of radical opinion may be against CR policy and I may be banned, but I will take my chances. 8)


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## SkynetTX (Oct 9, 2017)

I would like to have an 1200D Mark II (or 1200D+) with exactly the same look (and possibly dimensions) as the original. A higher resolution LCD screen (at least 920k, but higher if possible) is required, but I need neither WI-FI, nor NFC that is present in 1300D. I never use any of these options on any device. And no GPS or touch screen. I need no video recording capabilities for a camera used only for taking still pictures. A bit more AF points could also be good (but not more than 25) covering a larger area and being closer to each other (adding a second circle around the original). Battery life could go up to 700 but that's not that important. In my opinion crop cameras don't need higher resolution than 18 MP (unless diffraction is reduced somehow) as the DLA would be too low for me.


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## Deleted member 91053 (Oct 9, 2017)

What would I like to see from Canon by 2020?

Naturally I would like to see sensors continue to improve.
No silly high pixel counts - just not needed and hinder high ISO.
Continuing AF improvements so that Nikon, Sony etc don't catch up.
Sensibly priced battery packs - that is NOT going to happen!
A clear-out of the features that nobody I know (only about 55/60 photographers) uses, such as WiFi, GPS, video etc etc. Plus a consequent price reduction ;D
Memory cards? CF ain't broke so don't fix it! Plenty fast enough if the camera has a decent buffer.
Flippy screens seem to be very popular so more of those please, just not on 1 Series bodies.

As an aside I would like to see the 300 F4 and 400 F5.6 L Lenses updated, preferably without IS.

For my uses (Wildlife etc) that should keep Canon ahead for the next few years.


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## Jopa (Oct 9, 2017)

Well, just gimme a 5dsr2 with the 80D sensor scaled to FF, auto AFMA calibration, AF-spot linked metering, maybe an extra FPS or two and I'll be happy. A mirrorless with the same sensor will work as well.
Also, a 50mm f/1.4 as sharp as the 35 II is very welcome


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## AlanF (Oct 9, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Well, just gimme a 5dsr2 with the 80D sensor scaled to FF, auto AFMA calibration, AF-spot linked metering, maybe an extra FPS or two and I'll be happy. A mirrorless with the same sensor will work as well.
> Also, a 50mm f/1.4 as sharp as the 35 II is very welcome



No way with the blurring AA-filter of the 80D! The current 5DSR cropped outperforms the 80D in terms of sharpness and resolution.


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## Jopa (Oct 9, 2017)

AlanF said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > Well, just gimme a 5dsr2 with the 80D sensor scaled to FF, auto AFMA calibration, AF-spot linked metering, maybe an extra FPS or two and I'll be happy. A mirrorless with the same sensor will work as well.
> ...



Sorry, I meant resolution-wise. No AA is a must. Peace!


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## dolina (Oct 10, 2017)

unfocused said:


> These seem like pretty specific technical specifications, with no explanation of why they are so important to you, much less why anyone else should care. I'd like to know why you think these things are important.
> 
> My wishlist is aimed at things that I think would make my life easier, but also considering what might appeal to other photographers:
> 
> ...


To put it plainly these are technologies in existence and found in higher end cameras, smartphones or computers that would be greatly help photographers.

This would make full frame and crop cameras more convenient to use, faster to operate, lighter in weight, last longer between battery charges and be relevant before the year 2020.

Like say in-camera USB charging of batteries. Sony can do it and I am amazed by it. It allows me to only bring one USB charger and one USB cable to charge my Android phone and the a7R II. Or I can recharge the Sony with a USB powerbank. In contrast to Canon where I have to bring a dedicated battery charger and cable. They even sell USB chargers with more than 1 USB port. Like this one below.







1 USB-C port with 30W of USB Power Delivery to charge a notebook.
4 USB ports with dedicated 12W of power.

Canon LC-E6 Battery Charger for LP-E6 Battery Pack outputs 8.4V 1.2A or 10.08W 
Canon LC-E19 Battery Charger For LP-E19, LP-E4, and LP-E4N Batteries outputs 12.6V 1.63A or 20.538W.

So when I travel with that USB charger I can charge my 2017 Macbook, iPhone, powerbank & a7R II with room to spare to charge the devices of friends. Doing this with only 1 AC plug. If you've been to airports you'll know how tough it is to find a vacant power outlet and you often times have to compete over one with other passengers.

Current and new camera owners will be mostly made up of millennials like myself by 2020.

As it stands now Canon's cameras have a technology lag of about 5 years as compared to the other camera brands and smartphones. They remind me of the automotive industry where it to took bout the same number of years to install USB ports for connectivity for the iPod.

I excluded mentioning ISO (sensitivity, noise, etc), dynamic range and megapixels because they are already a given to increase.

Giving an ambiguous non-specific improvement pretty much says "the sky is the limit, better yet, my money's the limit".

* Add 802.11ac Wi‑Fi with MIMO, Bluetooth 5.0 wireless technology, NFC, Assisted GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, and QZSS


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## Valvebounce (Oct 10, 2017)

Hi Dolina. 
I think Canon are quite sensible not to rush new technology out on to customers especially as things like the next generation of any camera would likely be in the design phase for some years. We have all seen the trouble that some early adopters have had even with high end Canon gear, I would imagine Canon has no inclination to increase the risk to their good name by building latest generation in to a camera at the last moment! 

Cheers, Graham. 



dolina said:


> As it stands now Canon's cameras have a technology lag of about 5 years as compared to the other camera brands and smartphones. They remind me of the automotive industry where it to took bout the same number of years to install USB ports for connectivity for the iPod.


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## dolina (Oct 10, 2017)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Dolina.
> I think Canon are quite sensible not to rush new technology out on to customers especially as things like the next generation of any camera would likely be in the design phase for some years. We have all seen the trouble that some early adopters have had even with high end Canon gear, I would imagine Canon has no inclination to increase the risk to their good name by building latest generation in to a camera at the last moment!
> 
> Cheers, Graham.


Hi Graham,

Perhaps that's why camera sales has been in decline? There is nothing significantly "new" to upgrade towards.

Majority of camera buyers are born 1980-onwards and if it doesnt offer the features one should expect for a 2017 product then why even bother buying?


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## Mikehit (Oct 10, 2017)

dolina said:


> Hi Graham,
> 
> Perhaps that's why camera sales has been in decline? There is nothing significantly "new" to upgrade towards.
> 
> Majority of camera buyers are born 1980-onwards and if it doesnt offer the features one should expect for a 2017 product then why even bother buying?



That is a rather negative view. 
I think it more likely that most people who want a camera has one, and any camera bought in the last 3-4 years will offer the functions that _most _people need for _most _situations. Before about 2012, I think a new model offered heaps more - more MP, better AF, more AF points, flip screens, video....but now every camera has those and it is diminishing returns. Add to that the tightening financial situation and I think the market is getting closer to saturation.


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## Jopa (Oct 10, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> I think it more likely that most people who want a camera has one, and any camera bought in the last 3-4 years will offer the functions that _most _people need for _most _situations.



You're underestimating certain people's creativity _limited by modern high-end FF cameras_. Instagram and FB need only the best LOL. A decent camera more or less suitable for instagram posts needs to have at least 100 stops of DR, one terapixel resolution, 1000 fps, etc... for under $100 of course.


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## danski0224 (Oct 11, 2017)

Short of significant upgrades, I may not be looking at an EOS body at that time- certainly not a new one.

These new cameras are way too expensive to be buying new (for me) anymore unless there is more than an incremental upgrade. At that time in the future, I may look at a used 1DXII or maybe a used 5DIV.

And if I do buy something new, it will most likely be outside of the Canon ecosystem, and that will kill the budget for anything else for a while.

If Canon decides to release something like a Foveon sensor, then that will get my attention though. So will a 1DsIV.


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## Jopa (Oct 11, 2017)

danski0224 said:


> If Canon decides to release something like a Foveon sensor, then that will get my attention though. So will a 1DsIV.



Does it mean you don't want your camera to go over ISO 800? As far a I know that's a usable iso limit on Foveons.


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## danski0224 (Oct 11, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Does it mean you don't want your camera to go over ISO 800? As far a I know that's a usable iso limit on Foveons.



I would be fine with that.


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## Pippan (Oct 11, 2017)

This is my wish-list:

a rear LCD histogram/blinkies display that is based on raw data rather than a jpg conversion

a proximity sensor that turns off the LCD when you bring the camera to your eye (my 100D has this but my 80D doesn’t)

an on-dial setting that allows you to manually set an exposure (as M does) but provides an automatic adjustment of shutter speed if you need to quickly vary aperture, or vice versa, while maintaining the same exposure value (perhaps called Ev)

a sensor that arranges pixel sites on a triangular matrix like this:

R B G R B G R B G R B G
G R B G R B G R B G R 
R B G R B G R B G R B G
G R B G R B G R B G R
R B G R B G R B G R B G
G R B G R B G R B G R

instead of the current square matrix with twice as many green pixel sites as red and blue. This triangular matrix would allow many more effective pixels to fit into a given area and wouldn't require whatever algorithm is used to halve the green values. I assume though that there is some technical reason it can't be done like this as it seems so obvious.


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## Jopa (Oct 11, 2017)

danski0224 said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > Does it mean you don't want your camera to go over ISO 800? As far a I know that's a usable iso limit on Foveons.
> ...



Knowing how popular are the Sigma cameras I doubt Canon will ever follow that path. It would be even more surprising than seeing a medium format Canon


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## Jopa (Oct 11, 2017)

Pippan said:


> This is my wish-list:
> 
> a rear LCD histogram/blinkies display that is based on raw data rather than a jpg conversion
> 
> ...



It smells like X-Trans...


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## danski0224 (Oct 12, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Knowing how popular are the Sigma cameras I doubt Canon will ever follow that path. It would be even more surprising than seeing a medium format Canon



Canon could do it as a niche product. If I'm not mistaken, Canon has patents for a sensor that is a Foveon type design.

Maybe some sort of collaboration with Sigma 

Even if the guts were put into a 5D series body, I'd get one unless the pricing was similar to the Sigma SD1.

I won't hold my breath, though.


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## Pippan (Oct 12, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Pippan said:
> 
> 
> > a sensor that arranges pixel sites on a triangular matrix like this:
> ...



Is that how X-Trans sensors are patterned?


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