# 1Ds Mark IV Specs [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 17, 2010)

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<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1ds4mock.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3922" title="1ds4mock" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1ds4mock.jpg" alt="" width="525" height="200" /></a></p>
<p><strong>New Specs

<span style="font-weight: normal;">Received a new list of specs for an upcoming 1Ds Mark IV.</span> </strong></p>
<p>As with all CR1, big grain of salt.</p>
<p><strong>1Ds Mark IV Specifications

</strong>Full HD video and backlit 29.6MP Digic V

AVHCD

Back lit CMOS sensor effectively doubles the sensitivity of sensor.

6666Ãƒâ€”4444 pixel sensor becomes the highest resolution 35mm sensor

Back lighting of the sensor improves peripheral performance with ultrawide lenses

Combining hybrid phase difference and contrast detect AF using the main image sensor

High speed phase difference AF and high accuracy contrast detect for high speed AF performance

Hybrid viewfinder. Normal SLR with mirror down or OLED EVF display during liveview mode

5.5FPS in normal mode

7.5MP Liveview mode @30fps

1080/30P and 720/60P

Same physical design</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## Jan (Aug 17, 2010)

"Full HD video and backlit 29.6MP Digic V
Back lit CMOS sensor effectively doubles the sensitivity of sensor."

Sounds like somebody dreaming his 1Ds Mark IV specs. Backlit truely is a new technology (thats whay he/she thought it will be in the 1Ds MkIV), but not essentially for DSLR-scale sensors. The effect of the backside illumination is rather small, when a large scale sensor is used. It could be, that backlit-CMOS technology produces a measurable higher sensitivity, but never ever will this be doubled compared to conventional technology.

"6666Ãƒâ€”4444 pixel sensor becomes the highest resolution 35mm sensor"
Well... nice play with ne numbers...

"Back lighting of the sensor improves peripheral performance with ultrawide lenses"
How should this work?

"Combining hybrid phase difference and contrast detect AF using the main image sensor"
High speed phase difference AF and high accuracy contrast detect for high speed AF performance"
Fuji did, ok...

I highly doubt these specs.


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## pgabor (Aug 17, 2010)

For this i guess you need a whole saltcellar.


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## Alph (Aug 17, 2010)

Salt aside...

This is the type of technology that Canon needs to be turning out. None of the technologies mentioned here are either new or groundbreaking. Canon simply needs to put them together in the proper way to keep ahead of the game and be a leader in the industry. Anything less and they will continue to lose ground.

I understand the naysayers, but I tend to believe this type of rumor because, according to me, this is what Canon needs  to be doing.

Also, things like backlighting and hybrid AF, in some deminished capacity, would need to make their way into the entire line... starting with the forcoming 60D, if Canon wants to have an impact.

Cheers


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## off topic (Aug 17, 2010)

the claims over at EOSHD.com are much grander with RAW video for 1DsIV
and
the believable introduction of the Digic 5 chip


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## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2010)

Jan said:


> "Full HD video and backlit 29.6MP Digic V
> Back lit CMOS sensor effectively doubles the sensitivity of sensor."
> 
> Sounds like somebody dreaming his 1Ds Mark IV specs. Backlit truely is a new technology (thats whay he/she thought it will be in the 1Ds MkIV), but not essentially for DSLR-scale sensors. The effect of the backside illumination is rather small, when a large scale sensor is used. It could be, that backlit-CMOS technology produces a measurable higher sensitivity, but never ever will this be doubled compared to conventional technology.
> ...



backlighting would indeed help with peripheral performance however it wouldn't greatly help high ISO performance .. it's possible however, highly complex to do it on a full frame sensor - if not even currently possible to do so - not to mention i don't think canon has the fabrication nor the patent rights for a blacklit sensor design.

Hybrid AF - is possible - this is something that canon has had approved patents on for a number of years - that wouldn't be surprising to see.

6666 x 4444 was actually mentioned in DPP specifications - the possible source of that .. however, it's a specially odd numerical significance that I'm sure marketting would think is bad for the flagship....


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## RichT (Aug 17, 2010)

Some of those specs just don't make sense (AVCHD?). The resolution numbers seem odd too, though the number of 7.5mp in liveview actually would make sense if a 2x2 binning/decimation routine came off a 30 mp sensor. Video would be excellent if it used such a mode, instead of binning+line skipping then upscaling to get to 1080 it would be downsampling to get to 1080 (which surely would require a Digic V). The backlighting part may be true (really it's more like backWIRING, but whatever) - Sony is now using it on their newest APS-C sensors, so Canon would just be keeping up with the Joneses. The "double" improvement in low light though may refer to a number of advances since the last 1Ds was released. It's a weird spec list allright, almost like it was an overheard 2nd or 3rd hand account of the camera


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## Son of Daguerre (Aug 17, 2010)

Pure feces of a male Guernsey


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## kubelik (Aug 17, 2010)

I think the dead giveaway in this one is where it claims the backlit sensor will double its sensitivity (also, the pixel count, when do the manufacturers ever use such even numbers of pixels)

using a backlit sensor to supposedly dramatically increase the sensitivity of sensels is a bogus statement that gets brought up over and over by rumormongers. ever since the backlit CMOS came out a number of people familiar with the science stated that it was more effective in the tiny sensors used in compact cameras rather than the larger sensors and sensels used in DSLRs. well, if it's supposed to be more powerful in compact cameras ... I've seen the images taken at ISO 800 and 1600 from the newest compacts, and it's nothing to write home about.

I'd love a magic recipe for increased sensitivity just as anyone would, but I really don't think backlighting makes a hoot of difference


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## noisejammer (Aug 17, 2010)

Jan said:


> The effect of the backside illumination is rather small, when a large scale sensor is used. It could be, that backlit-CMOS technology produces a measurable higher sensitivity, but never ever will this be doubled compared to conventional technology.
> 
> "Back lighting of the sensor improves peripheral performance with ultrawide lenses"
> How should this work?



First of all, back illumination is not new - it has been standard technology on high end CCD (not CMOS) sensors for at least 10 or 15 years. Moving the technology over to CMOS is a logical thing to do and is the kind of thing that could be expected in a very high end camera. That said, large, back illuminated CCD's are horrendously expensive - it's moot whether they would fall within the typical pro budget.

Secondly, the effect on sensitivity of back illumination is dependent on the ratio of capture area to gate area, so in the era of microlenses it is not particularly signficant. (Judging again from CCD's you get 20% to 30% at most.) 30% would be about 0.4 stops which is not to be sneezed at, but isn't going to save the planet either.

Thirdly, it directly affects your dynamic range because the volume of the charge trap is intrinsically larger than the front illuminated chip. This matters a lot - it might provide a true 14 bits.

Fourth, it _could_ improve performance with wide angle lenses because light striking the lens at a large angle is less likely to be shadowed by the gate structure and thus more likely to be captured by the sensor. I suspect this would be a small effect. Having the sensor near the surface would definitely allow for better microlens design so that light ended up where it was supposed to.

So - my version of the post...
Is back-illumination possible? I think it is.
Is back-illumination likely? I would guess that it's already been done but it's not remotely affordable.
Is it the correct solution? No, I think a detector cascade aka Foveon) is a far, far better approach.


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## DetlevCM (Aug 17, 2010)

Very dubious - sounds really like someone thought he'd throw together an advertisement.

And what's a "backlit Digic V" - I've not heard of any advantages of backlighting a processor... and I guess I know why - it is pointless as it does nothing.

Edit:
Just to add - and a pixle count on a processor? Again a very odd phrase... processor do not have pixels - they do have transistors, but camera manufacturers don't tend to push those as features.


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## Jan (Aug 17, 2010)

DetlevCM said:


> Very dubious - sounds really like someone thought he'd throw together an advertisement.
> 
> And what's a "backlit Digic V" - I've not heard of any advantages of backlighting a processor... and I guess I know why - it is pointless as it does nothing.
> 
> ...


I think the backlit is related to the MP count and not to the Digic V. However, the formulation is kind of confusing.


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## Jan (Aug 17, 2010)

RichT said:


> Sony is now using it on their newest APS-C sensors, so Canon would just be keeping up with the Joneses.


Can you please tell me which APS-C sensors are back illuminated? I never heard of any so far...


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## RichT (Aug 18, 2010)

Jan said:


> RichT said:
> 
> 
> > Sony is now using it on their newest APS-C sensors, so Canon would just be keeping up with the Joneses.
> ...



Hmm, I had read that their new EXMOR sensor used in the NEX-5 was backlit, but looking it up there are conflicting reports of it, some sites say yes others no. So probably not.


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## J-Man (Aug 18, 2010)

"Combining hybrid phase difference and contrast detect AF using the main image sensor
High speed phase difference AF and high accuracy contrast detect for high speed AF performance"
This type of AF could do away with the need for AF MA, maybe an automated MA routine?

"7.5MP Liveview mode @30fps" 3720x2011= 7.48MP
is very close to 4K 3996 Ã— 2160 1.85:1 8,631,360
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

If this was capable of being passed through the HDMI connector, who would need a RED?
and I think alot of movie producers would kill for such a camera.


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## x-vision (Aug 18, 2010)

So, a FF back-lit CMOS sensor ? ? ?

ROFL ;D ;D ;D. 

This so called "source" has no clue about what's going on in the semiconductor industry today.


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## Idahophoto (Aug 18, 2010)

Somebody is dreaming


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## Aputure (Aug 18, 2010)

"Doubles the sensitivity of the sensor"

Does that mean they will be going from 3200 tops to 12800 tops? Or does it mean 2 stops improvement in noise performance? What exactly, I wonder...?


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## Lawliet (Aug 18, 2010)

That would mean going from 3200 to 6400, if you take it literally. AKA a single stop noise performance.

But there is always the possibility of Canon making simply a certain range of settings available, and the true change is in image quality. 
Say the sensor creates 1/3rd of the noise. this could translate to one stop higher settable sensitivity with improved noise and shadow rendition, or an additional H-setting with worse characteristics.

But being backlit wouldn't help a large sensor as much as it does for a small one, I wouldn't expect wonders without taking hints from the 1DIV's design.


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