# New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 18, 2017)

```
For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
<p>If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.</p>

<ul>
<li>EOS Cinema DSLR
<ul>
<li><em>A cinema DSLR camera to replace the discontinued EOS-1D C. This has been talked about numerous times over the years.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>EOS-1D Xs
<ul>
<li><em>A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III. </em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>EOS APS-C Cinema DSLR
<ul>
<li><em>A cheaper 4K cinema alternative that would “protect” the Cinema EOS lineup of cameras.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p>Hopefully this will bring a bit more information to the surface. For the moment, this is a <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-rumors-rating-system-explained/">[CR1]</a> rumor, so please treat it as such.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## cenkog (Sep 18, 2017)

Too late, thx


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 18, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018.
> Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.
> If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.
> EOS Cinema DSLR - A cinema DSLR camera to replace the discontinued EOS-1D C. This has been talked about numerous times over the years.
> ...


 
...and maybe a Full Frame Mirrorless.

Some think that the EOS numbering has recently become stable ad predictable even for the M series.

No complete overlap between DSLRs and Mirrorless, but it could sound like:
*100*D/200D in Europe (SL1/2 in other Countries) and EOS M*100*: basic and small models
*6*D and M*6*: enthusiast models
*5*D and M*5*: more advanced models
Therefore, I expect to see a *M1* (full frame mirrorless) as ambitious as a *1D*(x).
We'll see.


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## crazyrunner33 (Sep 18, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> A cheaper 4K cinema alternative that would “protect” the Cinema EOS lineup of cameras.</em></li>



Hopefully they mean "protect" as in giving me a reason to buy this instead of another Panasonic.


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## Gregg (Sep 18, 2017)

Yes, a decent pro DSLR in a 1D body is certainly required. We don't need more pixels. We need far better pixels. 
Better bit depth (min 16) and better dynamic range (>= 15) in a pro body. 
30 Megapixels is perfect. I was printing 6 meter tall images from my 5D IV recently which you can see here. 
https://www.instagram.com/greggfoto/


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 18, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> EOS-1D Xs - _A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III._



This one would get my $$$$.


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## Andreasb (Sep 18, 2017)

Another option would be an AP-C body with a built in grip, all of us serious birders would be so very happy with that as a replacement for the 7DMKII.

24mp AP-C, better DR, 12-14 fps, 1dX II like AF or better, better buffer and CFast cards. Would be just what I would like. Although unlikely, better high ISO performance as well would be nice.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > EOS-1D Xs - _A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III._
> ...



It wouldn't get my dollars, but it surely would get my vote of being the most likely. Folks prepared to spend $6k on a great new body now have a choice of a 1-series feature set OR a high resolution sensor. Canon is leaving money on the table here.

Also, a '7DC' crop rig with 4K seems a little silly as I'd 100% expect a 7D3 and 90D to get 4K anyway, right?

- A


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## privatebydesign (Sep 18, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > EOS-1D Xs - _A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III._
> ...



Me too. Having been a 1DS MkIII user for years I'd love a true update. Indeed I'd happily sell my two 1DX MkII's for a single 1DXS.

Dual CFast slots only though please!


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## AJ (Sep 18, 2017)

JohanCruyff said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018.
> ...


Yes, a camera with DPAF/EVF, something to compete with Sony A99


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## scrup (Sep 18, 2017)

2 hotshoes so 1 can be used with detachable EVF. Call it the 2D and you get one sale. LOL.


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## Woody (Sep 18, 2017)

JohanCruyff said:


> ...and maybe a Full Frame Mirrorless.
> 
> Some think that the EOS numbering has recently become stable ad predictable even for the M series.
> 
> ...



Agreed.

Seems odd that many are hurtling toward MILCs (Nikon included) and Canon is just going to stand still with their DSLRs? Doesn't sound likely to me.


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## j-nord (Sep 18, 2017)

5DSR replacement that competes more directly with the D850? Move the 5DIV more to the middle of the road "all rounder" position where it belongs. Mirrorless or not IDK. In this case, not a 1 series body.


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## docsmith (Sep 18, 2017)

AJ said:


> JohanCruyff said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Ummm...cough....a DSLR won't be "mirrorless"....almost by definition, it will have a mirror.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-lens_reflex_camera

I am on the 1Ds bandwagon. And there is a chance they'd get my money. I wouldn't need 14 fps, but if they get 10-12 fps, ~30 MP, plus the other 1D goodies....

I'd think about it.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

AJ said:


> Yes, a camera with DPAF/EVF, something to compete with Sony A99



Sorry, but Canon has a hard enough time paying attention to Nikon, let alone Sony; Canon does not give two farts about the sales of a Sony SLT system. 

Canon is not going to put out a FF mirrorless rig to compete with anything _other than their own FF SLRs._

Also, regardless of who they are competing with, a A99-like 42 MP x 12 fps supercar of a mirrorless rig is also unlikely. I fully expect Canon's first FF mirrorless to look 6D2-like and not A99-II like. They will start from the bottom of the FF food chain, establish credibility with a (relatively underwhelmingly spec'd) basic body that performs well with well thought out controls/ergonomics/menus, and then walk up the line with higher-spec'd stuff over time. _Just like they did with EOS M._

This, of course, presumes that Canon's first FF mirrorless rig has detachable lenses at all, which may not happen. A fixed-lens RX1 / Leica Q style rig might be their first attempt.

- A


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

j-nord said:


> 5DSR replacement that competes more directly with the D850? Move the 5DIV more to the middle of the road "all rounder" position where it belongs. Mirrorless or not IDK. In this case, not a 1 series body.



Canon doesn't segment it's markets like Nikon does.

Canon is good (6D line), all-arounder (5D line) and high detail (5DS line).
Nikon is good / better / best.

For Canon to re-jigger it's market segments to compete on Nikon's terms _is a point to Nikon_. It would show weakness, lack of identity, desire to follow and not lead, etc. Canon should 100% stick to its guns with its current non-gripped FF line. (I still contend they need a 1DXs on the gripped side, though.)

So to to jam 4K + higher fps on a 5DS2 isn't what Canon's after. They are more likely to maintain that rig's fps and reach for yet more detail, say a 75 MP x 5 fps rig, or 60 x 6, etc. (something like that).

- A


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

docsmith said:


> I am on the 1Ds bandwagon. And there is a chance they'd get my money. I wouldn't need 14 fps, but if they get 10-12 fps, ~30 MP, plus the other 1D goodies....
> 
> I'd think about it.



I don't see a '1DXs' being a gripped 5D4. I see it being a gripped (future) 5DS2 with highest possible resolution. 

- A


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## unfocused (Sep 18, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



I think you just explained why Canon might not do this.


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## unfocused (Sep 18, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.



I guess I don't understand this. It seems to me the 1DxII is pretty much an exact replacement for the 1Ds III. Now, if you are talking about the 1D IV...


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## unfocused (Sep 18, 2017)

Since this is CR-1 it is fun to speculate about what this mystery camera might be.

7Dx – Integrated grip 7D with CFast slot, 16 fps, good high ISO performance, full touch-screen, built to 1D standards, basic editing in-camera and intuitive wifi interface. 

8D – Lowest-priced full-frame camera on the market. Essentially, a re-packaged 6D retailing for $1,000-1,400 at introduction. 

80c - 4K cinema 80D with 80D's flip screen and headphone jack, CFast slot, along with cinema quality feature set (I'm not a video person so don't know what all that would entail.)

Curious what others might suggest.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 18, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.
> ...



It is and that is why I swapped mine out. 

But customers expect ever more nowadays and 20MP is marginal for delivery for some work. I'm not sure what MP I do actually want, and I might be happier with a 1DX MkII at 20MP and a 5DSR MkII at 50-60MP rather than a 1DXS at 30-45MP.

I absolutely don't want 80-120MP and will not buy a camera with that sort of pixel count.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

unfocused said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Me too. Having been a 1DS MkIII user for years I'd love a true update. *Indeed I'd happily sell my two 1DX MkII's for a single 1DXS.*
> ...



Hence my other comment about _*not*_ making this 1DXs a 'porridge is just right' gripped 5D4:



ahsanford said:


> I don't see a '1DXs' being a gripped 5D4. I see it being a gripped (future) 5DS2 with highest possible resolution.



If they do different jobs, one doesn't replace the other. Heck, you might own one of each -- photojournos, sports, wildlife, etc. would go with the 1DX line and studio, landscape, product, fashion, etc. would go with the 1DXs. 

If Canon specializes what the rig is for, segmentation sorts itself out and same-tiered lines aren't vying for the same business. 

- A


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Since this is CR-1 it is fun to speculate about what this mystery camera might be.
> 
> 7Dx – Integrated grip 7D with CFast slot, 16 fps, good high ISO performance, full touch-screen, built to 1D standards, basic editing in-camera and intuitive wifi interface.
> 
> ...



+1 on the 80C, though Canon might just call it the 90D.  In fairness, I am a idiot with video, so I see DPAF + tilty-flippy + touch and say "Let's make a movie!" like some knuckle-headed 80s dad with a camcorder. (I equate enthusiast video tech with 'cinema' and that's clearly a miss. Are real cine folks out there using video AF at all?)

7Dx is a fantasy 'crop 1DX2' for only the most demanding birder/wildlifers. Canon would have to sell it for $3k to make a dime off of it, so I don't see it happening.

If there's a new segment in non-gripped FF... I'd probably say a dedicated cinema 5D -- low low pixel count like an A7S II, 4K without much (if any) crop, tilty-flippy or slick monitor setup, eyepiece/loupe options, shoulder/gimbal options, etc.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 18, 2017)

Woody said:


> Seems odd that many are hurtling toward MILCs (Nikon included) and Canon is just going to stand still with their DSLRs? Doesn't sound likely to me.



Perhaps you have failed to notice that Canon is the #1 overall ILC manufacturer in global sales (for 15 years and counting), the #1 dSLR manufacturer (for that same 15+ years), and in the five years since the launch of the EOS M, Canon has gone from zero MILC sales to being the #2 MILC manufacturer globally.

How, exactly, does that constitute 'standing still'?


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## The3o5FlyGuy (Sep 18, 2017)

this is horrible news. The more series Canon announces, the more watered down the current cameras will get.... I thought the 6D mark II and the 5D mark IV were pretty weak compared to their competitions OLDER cameras, now this is a sign that they may get weaker in the future. My last hope is that the 7D mark III will be a solid camera!


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## Azathoth (Sep 18, 2017)

The options:

1Dxs - the 250 megapixels monster as expensive as the 1dxmk2

7Dx: very high speed (16-18 fps), low mp, decent at high iso, same AF performace as the 1dxmk2 with integrated grip,but with AF that cover all the frame. Basically a faster option than the 1dxmk2 for someone who wants a good reach: wildlife,...

80Dc - an APS-C specially tailored for 4K video, a GH5 killer.
80Ds - a high resolution 80D (40 megapixels ???) with no low pass filter and optimized for DR at low iso. Max iso 800. 

9D/8D - a budget ff, basically a 6D but with the old 12 mp 5D classic sensor.

a 888D - another entry level Rebel

My bet is on the 888D. ;D


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Sep 18, 2017)

Not sure what need there is photography-wise for another offering...so I'd love to see more competitive video-centric DSLR from canon. A 5Dc or 80Dc or 1dC mark II. However, I'm not sure if this would agree with Canon's strategy though. They really don't want to offer great video & photo features in the same body. And a limited record time would be an immediate deal-breaker. 

Which means those not able to afford the cinema line have to to choose between stills cameras with crappy video, or camcorders with fixed lenses that don't offer comparable flexibility to having an EF mount. This is where Sony and Panasonic are pulling ahead - their stills cameras really do offer amazing video + flexibility. I think Canon has an opportunity to continue divorcing stills cameras from video features, but while offering more compelling products at a lower price point. Something like the following:

*C50* - EF mount and APS-C/Super-35 sensor. Small compact, maybe one ND stage (3 or 4 stop), 4k recording, no record time limits, XC15 audio attachment compatible, C-Log, no photo abilities. $2500 - $3000. Basically a B or C cam to C100s/C200s or a compelling alternative to a GH5 or A7s II...._many, many people are buying those cams and never touching the photo features..._

*XC25* - Essentially a XC15, but with an APS-C sensor. Solves the low-light issues and allows smaller DOF. 24-200mm built-in variable aperture lens would be perfect. Very basic photo abilities. Also $2500 - $3000

Speaking as somebody who uses an XC10 as a C cam to a pair of C100s for weddings, I LOVE how easy it is to setup and use, and portability is fantastic. It's great not having to worry about throwing on a lens and the little space it takes up in my bag is paramount. But darker churches & receptions create problems for it and would quickly replace it with any of the possibilities above. A DSLR with a limited record time just isn't an option. 

P.S. Maybe Canon's mirrorless strategy will marry great photo & video features? Hope so.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

The3o5FlyGuy said:


> this is horrible news. The more series Canon announces, the more watered down the current cameras will get.... I thought the 6D mark II and the 5D mark IV were pretty weak compared to their competitions OLDER cameras, now this is a sign that they may get weaker in the future. My last hope is that the 7D mark III will be a solid camera!



[Quality / reliability] + [size and scale of offerings] go a very long ways to getting and maintaining business for Canon.

Consider: My watered down 5D3 has let me down exactly zero times in five years of service. That's not because I have low expectations of DR, FPS, MP count, etc. or that I'm blind to what others are offering. It's because what I *do* value -- options, intuitiveness and things that reliably work well -- is what it delivers.

- A


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## M_S (Sep 18, 2017)

j-nord said:


> 5DSR replacement that competes more directly with the D850? Move the 5DIV more to the middle of the road "all rounder" position where it belongs. Mirrorless or not IDK. In this case, not a 1 series body.



+1. I like the formfactor. Weight is a concern. I did some hiking to Panorama Ridge the other day with 24-70 II 2.8 and tripod. For me this setup was the limit. Every pound counts, as a tent and water plus other stuff had also be transported. A 1D body would be even heavier and I would not like that one for landscapes in the backcountry. So 5dsr II all the way with the expected improvements in ISO and dynamic range. No more megapixel. The 24-70 II has already its weaknesses in the corners and to worsen this even further would not be a good thing.


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## Romain (Sep 18, 2017)

2018 announcement... (CR3).. 2019: 5DV, 90D and 6D3? :-X


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## Jopa (Sep 18, 2017)

That's going to be a 1Gpx 100fps mirrorless "DSLR" with OVF, EVF, thermal vision, and of course 20 stops of DR plus integrated toaster & ice maker. I'm excited!!!


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## rjbray01 (Sep 18, 2017)

What would be soooo cool would be a hybrid DSLR / Mirrorless camera.

The problem with mirrorless is the delay as you pan, refocus or zoom plus the poorer picture quality - until we have retina-quality instantly-available pictures in the viewfinder which are indistinguishable from reality, many people will prefer, err, reality.

BUT - until such times, "augmented reality" would be wonderful. By that I mean that you can flip into Live View mode but within the viewfinder - especially if you could zoom in to check focus - great for reviewing things like DOF and exposure on sunny days when Live View on the back of the screen is useless. Coupled with Zebras and focus peaking this would be truly awesome.

I've read on this site that Canon have been trying to develop some sort of hybrid capability : if they could put this into a 5D-iv or 6D-ii spec machine I think they would suddenly find themselves the talk of the town for the right reasons again ... and we would all stop wondering if the year will inevitably come when we have to jump to Sony or Nikon as our cameras are looking severely out of date. 

Whilst I totally appreciate everyone's posts along the lines of "you have a great camera just get out there and take pictures" ... I personally wouldn't want to swap my latest generation cameras for stuff which is 5 years old ... it seems to fix a lot of problems with the user - I'm not a pro just an enthusiast who could do with some help on the way - lots of FPS, great autofocus, great low light, in-body stabilization and a future hybrid OVF/EFT decent preview capability are all thumbs up from me - especially as my eyesight and steady hand deteriorate !


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## traveller (Sep 18, 2017)

What strange times, a new series of DSLR is rumoured and nobody seems to have suggested "EOS 3D with eye control focusing!'


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

rjbray01 said:


> What would be soooo cool would be a hybrid DSLR / Mirrorless camera.



So, in this case, it's less a mirrorless camera than it is an SLR that you can choose to flip the mirror up and pipe EVF (LiveView) content to the same eyepiece somehow? 

I'm not saying that will happen, but I'd certainly find it useful:


Top of the list: I'd be able to use manual focus lenses for jobs other than tripod landscapes and macro. I could magnify and/or focus peak some nice Zeiss glass while still holding the body comfortably/stably up to my eye.


We could amplify light in dark rooms (again, held up to one's eye and not held 6-12" away like it were iPad photography)


By relying on DPAF in the EVF mode, we'd unlock a ton more spread / real estate that the AF could cover.


I'm not sure Canon is going to go this route, however -- it's presently not where the market is. To my knowledge, only the (rangefinder-like) Fuji X-Pro line does this, and it's hardly their most popular rig. Most everyone else is all-in on just an EVF as it eliminates the mirror and lets you offer a thinner body. Canon will likely do the same.

- A


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## privatebydesign (Sep 18, 2017)

traveller said:


> What strange times, a new series of DSLR is rumoured and nobody seems to have suggested "EOS 3D with eye control focusing!'



The 5D series is the spiritual and practical replacement for the highly regarded EOS3, there is no '3D' expectation now and hasn't been since the second tier FF model range matured, I think most would say that was the 5D MkIII.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2017)

traveller said:


> What strange times, a new series of DSLR is rumoured and nobody seems to have suggested "EOS 3D with eye control focusing!'



I'm actually more surprised we haven't gotten more APS-H catcalls out of this rumor. Birders might see APS-H as the only way they'll get reach + an integrated grip ever again. (I just don't see a 7Dx with an integral grip ever happening.)

- A


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## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Sep 18, 2017)

Interesting! Refreshing lenses this year, next year maybe bodies, eh?

"M16" would imply AF w/alacrity & FPS w/celerity, but mostly I would like to see some sort of card standard before ponying up the $ for new bodies. I don't care what it is, but would like some sort of standard as my collection of Lexar CF cards is getting long of tooth(fortunately, only 1 failure in 10 years).


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## traveller (Sep 18, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > What strange times, a new series of DSLR is rumoured and nobody seems to have suggested "EOS 3D with eye control focusing!'
> ...



It only ever was a hobby horse for people to pin their wildest fantasies upon. From what I see written on this thread, the 3D is reborn.


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## docsmith (Sep 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > I am on the 1Ds bandwagon. And there is a chance they'd get my money. I wouldn't need 14 fps, but if they get 10-12 fps, ~30 MP, plus the other 1D goodies....
> ...



That is equally as possible. But, with fewer MP, they would have an easier time keeping fps high. Then you would have 1D goodies, form factor, and fps to differentiate it from 5DIV. With too many MP, the throughput would be too high for many fps, and you lose fps as a differentiator between 1D and 5D versions. Granted, maybe they could have ~8 fps in the 1D version and stay with 5 fps in the 5D version. Difference, yes, worth $3k...not to me.

But, how about a compromise, 5Ds(r) II at ~60 MP, 1DXS (r) at ~40 MP. Then Canon has a 5D or 1D camera in the 20, 30, 40, and ~60 MP range.

That said, if we are speculating, how about the first DSLR including the bending sensor? We've seen the patents. I'd expect it in a smaller/less important camera first, so this would fit with an 8D or something.


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## amorse (Sep 18, 2017)

M_S said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > 5DSR replacement that competes more directly with the D850? Move the 5DIV more to the middle of the road "all rounder" position where it belongs. Mirrorless or not IDK. In this case, not a 1 series body.
> ...



I agree - I would love to see the 5D SR stay in the same form factor for weight reasons. I just hiked the slims valley in the Yukon (including observation mountain) with a tripod, 5D IV, 24-105, 16-35 f4, 70-200 f2.8 ii, and Rokinon 14mm for that 65km hike (_read absolutely no consideration for weight_) and let's just say that my pack will be A LOT lighter next time. Lesson learned - hopefully I remember it next time I pack!


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## snoke (Sep 18, 2017)

1DXs? Cost? $9000. Like 1Ds.

If in 2018 Nikon have FF mirrorless like D5, what Canon answer?

If Nikon FF mirrorless do 20+fps for sports, Canon?

Canon run out of names. 10D... 77D, 80D, 90D... after 90D? Cannot be 100D.


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## rjbray01 (Sep 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rjbray01 said:
> 
> 
> > What would be soooo cool would be a hybrid DSLR / Mirrorless camera.
> ...



I realize this isn't "where the market is" today but it would be an awesome capability - if such a device could be built at reasonable cost I can't help thinking that it would actually define, create and build a whole new market. Who would prefer a "regular" DSLR to one which can flip the mirror and make full use of a ton of features not possible otherwise. If the mirror could flip back and forth extremely quickly - if the sensors could focus and display the image quickly (particularly easy if the camera is already focussed !) so that you could flip back and forth near-instantly then wouldn't this be a "killer" feature ?


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## rjbray01 (Sep 18, 2017)

snoke said:


> 1DXs? Cost? $9000. Like 1Ds.
> 
> If in 2018 Nikon have FF mirrorless like D5, what Canon answer?
> 
> ...



Perhaps a "new line" of DSLR will be so different that it will add a whole new letter to the coding scheme altogether - "D" for DSLR, "M" for mirrorless, "H" for hybrid ...


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## AdjustedInCamera (Sep 18, 2017)

j-nord said:


> 5DSR replacement that competes more directly with the D850? Move the 5DIV more to the middle of the road "all rounder" position where it belongs. Mirrorless or not IDK. In this case, not a 1 series body.



+1 Please


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## AdjustedInCamera (Sep 18, 2017)

Jopa said:


> That's going to be a 1Gpx 100fps mirrorless "DSLR" with OVF, EVF, thermal vision, and of course 20 stops of DR plus integrated toaster & ice maker. I'm excited!!!



Give it a tilty-flippy screen and i might be interested...


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## danski0224 (Sep 18, 2017)

I'm hoping for a 1DSIV or 1DXsR. 

Hopefully they don't cripple the touchscreen this time


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## Ozarker (Sep 18, 2017)

Wondering whether this will make me happier to have skipped the 5D mark IV.


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## helpful (Sep 18, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
> <p>If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.</p>
> 
> <ul>
> ...


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## Wizardly (Sep 19, 2017)

For my wish list:

Curved sensor camera .
8D - lower tier, refresh of the 6D.
6d.2a, astro 6D.2
5Dr, low resolution, high ISO performance 5D.


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## Pascal Parvex (Sep 19, 2017)

The presented APS-H prototype sensors with 120 and 250 Megapixels will most probably end up in the 5Ds Mark II und III. An 7D Mark III is rumored to come early 2018. It is also said that it will be the first crop DSLR with 4K video.

Cinema EOS: Canon wants to be ready for the 8K 2020 Olympics, so they will present a product in this range until then. They already have shown their 8K cinema prototype camera for years now. It may end up as a C500 Mark II with 8K sensor. And I can also imagine, that Canon will offer to switch the C700 4.5K sensor with one of around 10K. Sligthly more than 8K to accomodate for the uses of the additional 0.5K on the 4K sensor of the current model. And I hope they will also release a 1D C Mark II as the DSLR model of the 8K line.


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## Asulkan (Sep 19, 2017)

I'm hoping to see a decent video oriented body with a 12mp sensor like the sony a7s. It's what canon is missing in their lineup. They'd have incredible low light similar to A7S and no problem sampling the whole full frame sensor. It'd be a great addition and what a lot of video professionals want. 

To all the fools who say "get a real video camera", I've already got one. I use a C100, which I've made a living with for 4 years, and soon will either pick up the C200 or Panasonics new EVA-1. But, what all these gumby enthusiast photographers think, is that a dslr _cannot_ and _should not_ be used for video. There are times and certain situations where shooting video in the form factor of a dslr is hugely beneficial. Light setups are key in a wide range of situations and it blows my mind that there are so many ignorant people out there that cannot grasp that.

So I'm all for canon innovating their 1DC line or maybe even a 5DC line. Looking forward to learning about whatever it is they're developing.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 19, 2017)

Pascal Parvex said:


> The presented APS-H prototype sensors with 120 and 250 Megapixels will most probably end up in the 5Ds Mark II und III.



No. A 5Ds where the 11-24/4L becomes equivalent to 14mm on the wide end? No. There won't be any more commercial APS-H bodies.


----------



## 9VIII (Sep 19, 2017)

I would want a high MP APS-H sensor to show up in either a "1D Mini" or "7DS", and eventually it would be the perfect way to differentiate the Rebel XX line from all the competing bodies.
High ISO improvements will come to an end someday and when they do you'll see large sensors proliferate down the price scale (as is happening now on Point&Shoot bodies).

Maybe they could even give it a special mirror that keeps EF-S compatibility.


----------



## Jopa (Sep 19, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Pascal Parvex said:
> 
> 
> > The presented APS-H prototype sensors with 120 and 250 Megapixels will most probably end up in the 5Ds Mark II und III.
> ...



It's also 1.3x zoom for birders. This + limitless crop = why not?


----------



## unfocused (Sep 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > 7Dx – Integrated grip 7D with CFast slot, 16 fps, good high ISO performance, full touch-screen, built to 1D standards, basic editing in-camera and intuitive wifi interface.
> ...



Agreed. Although they could follow Nikon's lead and simply offer an additional grip that uses the 1Dx battery for a higher frame rate and faster autofocus with big whites. The actual feature set of the 7D and the 1D series are not that much different as it is.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 19, 2017)

Jopa said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Pascal Parvex said:
> ...



Because 'limitless crop' obviates the need for '1.3x zoom', and because both 'limitless crop' and '1.3x zoom' can only narrow the FoV, not widen it.

Oh, and Canon said APS-H is dead.


----------



## sanj (Sep 19, 2017)

If it is 1dc2 just with Log then it is very sad. Canon can upgrade 5d4 with log for $100 but not the 1dx2? Instead launch 1dc2 with log and charge premium? I am positive they will not do this atrocity.


----------



## sanj (Sep 19, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > EOS-1D Xs - _A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III._
> ...



But will this happen? Will it not obsolete 1dx2 with it's launch? If it does not, will it be much better than 5dSR?


----------



## preppyak (Sep 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Also, a '7DC' crop rig with 4K seems a little silly as I'd 100% expect a 7D3 and 90D to get 4K anyway, right?


Knowing Canon, they'll release a 7D-C (at <mp and fps) for $2499+ with 4k, and a 7DmIII without 4k at its usual price point. Making nobody in the video world happy.

Seeing how they botched the 6D, I dont think they'll ever get the consumer video side back; so an APS-C C-cam seems like they'll be spreading themselves thin for little gain. Especially when the C-100, C-200, etc exist


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 19, 2017)

sanj said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



No, the 1DX MkII would have a fps advantage and be cheaper. Yes, just add on sensor ADC has been shown to improve low ISO image quality enough just by itself to warrant a change, throw in a few other goodies and it would be a great camera.

Having said that I don't see it happening, there is no doubt the market is video sensitive and a 5DC makes a lot more sense and would appeal to a much wider customer base. 

I've said many times, and for a long time, three 5 series models makes a lot of sense, the 5D Mk?? For the generalists, the 5DS/R Mk? For the high resolution photo orientated and a 5DC for the video guys that want the form factor, sensor size, etc that a ff dslr gives them with the ability to shoot some decent stills with it too.


----------



## Sator (Sep 19, 2017)

Since we are all in wild speculation mode, I might as well throw my 5 yen worth in too.

Ages ago, Egami found a Canon patent for a SLT system. Canon wouldn't call it that, they would call it a pellicle mirror camera. I do wonder if there are limitations to how fast you can get a reflex mirror to flip up and down. At a certain point, it would make more sense to have a digital Pellix with an electronic viewfinder (the analogue viewfinders on film Pellix models were really dim). It's been a while since Canon has had a Pellix model out, and perhaps now is the time for it.





The other possibility is that of a high resolution model above the 5DsR II, with a 120MP stacked sensor. My understanding was that once you go past a certain resolution, sensors need to be made with a stack design.


----------



## Talys (Sep 19, 2017)

My vote is for a high megapixel, 4k video APS-C.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 19, 2017)

Sator said:


> Since we are all in wild speculation mode, I might as well throw my 5 yen worth in too.
> 
> Ages ago, Egami found a Canon patent for a SLT system. Canon wouldn't call it that, they would call it a pellicle mirror camera. I do wonder if there are limitations to how fast you can get a reflex mirror to flip up and down. At a certain point, it would make more sense to have a digital Pellix with an electronic viewfinder (the analogue viewfinders on film Pellix models were really dim). It's been a while since Canon has had a Pellix model out, and perhaps now is the time for it.



Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly. There is no free lunch.

- A


----------



## Mikehit (Sep 19, 2017)

Jopa said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Pascal Parvex said:
> ...



So why not just make a 1Dx model with more MP - same thing given that you will use the same lenses on either. The APS-H was a hybrid born of necessity in manufacturing. My guess is that fabrication has improved so much that the cost differential between APS-H and FF is low enough to not offset the cost of 2 different manufacturing lines


----------



## Mikehit (Sep 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly. There is no free lunch.
> 
> - A



Do they also steal light from the metering sensor? If so that would impact AF performance quite a bit.


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 19, 2017)

yes, yes, yes, Canon! Extremely innovative, as always! Bring it on! More mirrorslappers! Absolutely and urgently needed! 

FF mirrorless? No need. Nobody wants to buy any ... just forget it! 10 years after Sony and 3 years after Nikon have launched theirs ... will be more than soon enough ... at least for most CR denizens ... if they are still alive.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Sep 19, 2017)

Canon have made the front end of the C700 modular to accept upgrades. When we quizzed them at the launch of the camera they didn't try to deny that they would make a Vistavision (24x36mm approx.) sensor like Red and now Sony has done with the announcement of the Venice. Arri are certainly working on a 6K replacement with Vistavision in mind for the Alexa. 
So Canon could use the same sensor they could put into a full-frame C700 in a DSLR it would make sense to use the sensor in more than one camera and leapfrog the naysayers complaining about there 4K offerings. Hell it could even be 8K (oversampling being the common application of 8K Red cameras). 
One issue is the failure rate of CFast cards they are not reliable in high data rate video cameras and fail often in the Alexa Mini and Amira so Canon need to chose media carefully.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 19, 2017)

sanj said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



I doubt it will happen. If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost. The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).


----------



## sanj (Sep 19, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I doubt too. Slower 1dx2 with high megapixels at hight cost would not make much sense to me, I would just get the next version of 5dSR which should not be too far off now. Perhaps as far as this rumoured camera is.


----------



## snoke (Sep 19, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> I doubt it will happen. If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost. The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).



Canon 1Ds + Zeiss give color and contrast to beat all other.

Can't say why. Rent camera and lens, then you see.


----------



## RGF (Sep 19, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > EOS-1D Xs - _A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III._
> ...



D850 in 1Dx skin? Will Canon be able to match FPS and DR of the D850? Sure they can top MP, but what about other attributes that make the camera usable.

I need more than just high MP. Reasonable FPS (not blazing fast), good DR, ..


----------



## traveller (Sep 19, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I'd have to agree. Right now, a 1D Xs would be awkward to place in the lineup. If it was the only high megapixel body, it would put a lot of people off Canon (in the same way that Nikon did with the D3X vs 5D2 and A900) because of cost and weight issues. If the 1D Xs was released alongside a 5DSII, how would it be differentiated? Canon struggled to do this with the 1Ds3 vs the 5D2, which is probably one reason why they discontinued the 1Ds series. How would Canon create unique selling points for a 1D Xs versus a 5DSII, without making the latter look inferior to the D850? I suppose it could happen if Canon go for a very high resolution sensor (>80MP?), but would they simply be splitting an ever diminishing market at this extreme? 

_Edit_: the other issue is the falling prices of the bottom end of the medium format market. When the 1Ds3 was released, $8000 looked like a bargain for the resolution, but you can now pick up the GFX 50S for $6500 ( how long before Sony release a 100 MP 44x33 sensor?), or the H6D 50c for $15,000?


----------



## bsbeamer (Sep 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Since this is CR-1 it is fun to speculate about what this mystery camera might be.
> ...



Yes - DPAF, flip screen, and touch screen are all features that are very helpful for cinema work in the right situation. Not every project has a Hollywood budget, but nearly every client expects their project to be treated as such. DPAF is extremely helpful with walking or gimble shots and can be great for documentary style interviews, or sending a producer to record these interviews vs. a true DP. 

As for my vote, +1 on the 80C, 90C, 7DC, or 5DC. All could be killer cameras if priced right.


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 19, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly. There is no free lunch.
> ...



No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.

But the idea of the Pellicle is not going to happen unless they come out with a serious breakthrough in mirror technology, they are too fragile and compromised.


----------



## Mikehit (Sep 19, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.
> 
> But the idea of the Pellicle is not going to happen unless they come out with a serious breakthrough in mirror technology, they are too fragile and compromised.



Thanks PBD. 
Everything I read about pellicle mirrors suggest it would be a step backwards.


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 19, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.
> ...



Now we truthfully have very impressive ISO performance any light loss really isn't the main drawback. The main issue I see is durability, Pellicle mirrors have to have the mirroring finish on the 'outside' of the glass, this makes them exceptionally sensitive and very difficult to clean. 

However if Canon, who have liked the idea several times before, come up with a new type of mirroring that could be switched on and off with an electric charge and that could be within the glass for durability then I could see the tech running. Canon are committed to the EF lens standard and leveraging it is going to make a big difference for this ever talked about FF 'mirrorless'. 

Well if you take the view that a FF mirrorless offers a better feature set than slr's then a new tech efficient Pellicle mirror has the potential to truthfully give you the best of both. I have a Honda with a rear view mirror that when you go into reverse has a screen in it that shows the view from a camera, you cannot see the rectangle where the screen is even on the closest inspection until you go into reverse. Imagine having the ability to get real time exposure feedback, a view with zero latency, real time overlay of any desired feature, it would be ground breaking and set the Canon system apart. Sony could never emulate or copy it because their registration distance is too short, Nikon could only come out with a pale imitation several years later that only worked with yet another series of 'F' mount lenses.

But I doubt it will happen......


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 19, 2017)

(D)SLR with pellicle mirror combines worst of all worlds. For good reason Sony SLTs miserably failed in the market. And Canon RT was no success either. 

Good cameras have neither smoke nor MIRRORS.


----------



## joemonek (Sep 19, 2017)

UPCOMING MODEL SHOULD EOS 1V


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 19, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> (D)SLR with pellicle mirror combines worst of all worlds. For good reason Sony SLTs miserably failed in the market. And Canon RT was no success either.
> 
> Good cameras have neither smoke nor MIRRORS.



SLTs are a tradeoff, not definitively/clearly worse IMHO. Consider: SLT technology delivered an A99-II that pumps out a staggering 42 MP x 12 fps for $3200. I'm guessing that 12 fps would not have been possible in FF at that price point if there was a mirror involved.

So, yes, though I prefer an SLR to an SLT, but let's not conflate A99-II sales (that we can't track that well) to 'SLTs are a waste of time'. It's just one way to skin the cat in building the marketing proposition for a camera. 

FWIW, Canon and Nikon are aware of SLT's opportunities to outperform SLR's in some metrics and have opted against them -- my guess is that the stolen light and PBD's delicate surface statements probably have something to do with it.

- A


----------



## joemonek (Sep 19, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
> <p>If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.</p>
> 
> <ul>
> ...


----------



## traveller (Sep 19, 2017)

joemonek said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
> ...



HINT: try using the 'Preview' function before you hit 'Post'. You can then see what your post will look like, which can be useful when you are using quotes, lists etc. As your post is right now, we have to decipher which bit is yours! 

ALSO: If you are quoting 'Canon Rumors'(i.e. Admin) don't try to modify his text, as I believe it is HTML, not the same as the system you are using in 'Post Reply' and you'll end up with a total mess!


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 19, 2017)

I read the rumor to indicate there was a new "series," not just a new camera. Taking that literally, I doubt this means anything on the low end, as we've been inundated with Canon market segmentation on that side of the market. I still don't know what the he|| a 77d is supposed to be in terms of a series reference. 

The obvious problem Canon has with its lineup is that it has relatively recently released its major bodies (1dx2, 5d4, 6d2) yet these don't appear set to age well relative to all of the other cameras coming out now and in the next 3-4 years of the refresh cycle. 

This means that it will need a higher-end series introduction. This will allow it to lower the prices of the 5 and 6 series, making them reasonable offerings versus the competition. 

My guess: a 1 or 5 series resolution monster. That they plan on calling this a new series, suggests it would be the part of the 1 lineup, as the 5dsr refresh won't qualify as a new series.


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 19, 2017)

not hard to guess. only series missing in Canon's DSLR lineup is waht? Exactly: EOS 3 lineup. EOS 3R, EOS 3S R , EOS 3C, EOS Mk1., EOS 3 Mk. II, EOS 3 Mk. II, EOS 3 Mk. IC ... and so on .. AD NAUSEAM. ;D ;D ;D


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## geekpower (Sep 19, 2017)

indeed, new series, not new camera....

the only big gap is between the 1d and 5d, right? so, are we looking at a 4d line, with studio and/or cinema models? (2d and 3d names have obvious issues due to overloading of meaning)


----------



## AJ (Sep 19, 2017)

Maybe medium format?


----------



## bhf3737 (Sep 19, 2017)

Does a medium format Canon DSLR make sense here? We have seen other manufacturers like Fuji and Pentax targeting this already. A very high megapixel full-frame sensor has its disadvantages (e.g. diffraction, noise ceiling, etc.) and limited by the resolving power of the lens used. 
In its pro line, Canon has 1D for sports, wild-life and journalism; and then 5D for events and all-rounder use. Currently there is no dedicated camera in Canon arsenal for studio work (portraiture, product, still life and even still macro and architecture photography). 5DSr is currently designated to be used in this segment. I guess Canon can make a medium-format DSLR which can have insanely high mega-pixels targeting the pro studio photographers. It can be marketed as a very high mega-pixels medium format camera. Price-wise it can be insanely expensive and will bring higher profit margin compared to 5DSr. It may have a few high resolution native lenses which will be insanely expensive, too. Nevertheless, there will be photographers who may want it, buy it and make their living with it.


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 19, 2017)

geekpower said:


> indeed, new series, not new camera....
> 
> the only big gap is between the 1d and 5d, right? so, are we looking at a 4d line, with studio and/or cinema models? (2d and 3d names have obvious issues due to overloading of meaning)



"4D" has even more issues in Japanes. It would be "THE DEATH CAM" ... never going to happen with Canon. LOL LOL LOL ;D


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 20, 2017)

AJ said:


> Maybe medium format?



Canon doesn't offer a new mount and then only offer a smattering of underwhelming lenses for it*. They generally prefer to offer a platform and leverage their size to make the most of it. 

So, no, I think that'd be a bridge too far, especially with FF mirrorless possibly staring at similar 'expensive investment' terms if they, too, go with a new mount. 

- A

*Besides EOS M. Terms and conditions on your happiness with your lens mount may apply. See internet for details.


----------



## Orangutan (Sep 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Sator said:
> 
> 
> > Since we are all in wild speculation mode, I might as well throw my 5 yen worth in too.
> ...



I keep wondering if it's possible to replace flip-up mirrors with mirrors that slide like the shutter curtain. We know those can move across the frame in about 1/300th second. It would have to be a bit heavier/sturdier to support a mirror, but I'd bet at least 25cents it could move 50 times per second.


----------



## Orangutan (Sep 20, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> yes, yes, yes, Canon! Extremely innovative, as always! Bring it on! More mirrorslappers! Absolutely and urgently needed!
> 
> FF mirrorless? No need. Nobody wants to buy any


Maybe some day they will.



> just forget it! 10 years after Sony and 3 years after Nikon have launched theirs ... will be more than soon enough


No, you have it all wrong: it'll be just in time to be a major business success



> ... at least for most CR denizens


Again you have it all wrong: as soon as mirrorless can do everything a DSLR can do (battery life, low-light AF, high speed motion, etc) CR denizens will jump on it. But not before.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 20, 2017)

More choices are always better.


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 20, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> More choices are always better.


no. Not generally. And not specifically in this case. "More Pseudo-choice", rather. "More or less more of the same". 

If "more choice" then I would like to be able to chose between Canon mirrorslappers and Canon mirrorless cameras not only with APS-C sensor, but also with FF sensor. 

Or more choice in terms of "sensor / AF /electronics modules" to upgrade existing camera bodies in a much more economical and ecological way than at current ... "throw away, buy a new one". 

Anyways, there is only 1 camera series SORELY MISSING at Canon: an excellent lineup of mirrorless FF cameras plus new native mount lenses.


----------



## bsbeamer (Sep 20, 2017)

bhf3737 said:


> Does a medium format Canon DSLR make sense here? We have seen other manufacturers like Fuji and Pentax targeting this already. A very high megapixel full-frame sensor has its disadvantages (e.g. diffraction, noise ceiling, etc.) and limited by the resolving power of the lens used.
> In its pro line, Canon has 1D for sports, wild-life and journalism; and then 5D for events and all-rounder use. Currently there is no dedicated camera in Canon arsenal for studio work (portraiture, product, still life and even still macro and architecture photography). 5DSr is currently designated to be used in this segment. I guess Canon can make a medium-format DSLR which can have insanely high mega-pixels targeting the pro studio photographers. It can be marketed as a very high mega-pixels medium format camera. Price-wise it can be insanely expensive and will bring higher profit margin compared to 5DSr. It may have a few high resolution native lenses which will be insanely expensive, too. Nevertheless, there will be photographers who may want it, buy it and make their living with it.



I'd love an AFFORDABLE medium format camera system. Something that is less expensive than a new car would be a starting point... Always thought this was an area Sigma should really just jump into, but they seem more focused on the Quattro and Foveon sensor cameras that are APS-H and APS-C. True medium format camera systems usually out of the price range for most that want to get into it. Personally, would love to shoot some video projects on medium format, but client budgets and available technology will not support it right now.


----------



## Mikehit (Sep 20, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > More choices are always better.
> ...



There is more choice. Just because it does not include the item you want does not alter the fact. 
"Look at the choice of all the biscuits they have "
"having 80 different sorts of biscuit is not choice because they don't have the gecko flavoured garibaldis that I have been looking for"

You do have a choice of mirrorless - it is called Sony and it is called Olympus. Both of which you have. So where is the problem?


----------



## unfocused (Sep 20, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> Anyways, there is only 1 camera series SORELY MISSING at Canon: an excellent lineup of mirrorless FF cameras plus new native mount lenses.



If that is the only option that will satisfy you, I think you can look forward to many more years of trolling this site, because I don't see Canon adding another lens mount.


----------



## scyrene (Sep 20, 2017)

Wizardly said:


> For my wish list:
> 
> Curved sensor camera .
> 8D - lower tier, refresh of the 6D.
> ...



A fixed curve sensor would require all new lenses. Does the technology to produce variable-curve sensors (which could possibly support existing lenses) exist?


----------



## scottburgess (Sep 20, 2017)

Some of the suggestions are patently ludicrous, as there is no market for half the cameras mentioned. Three ideas so far make sense to me. FF mirrorless and a high Mp pro camera are marketable and have been mentioned. But I haven't seen mention of the most obvious: a FF amateur camera, basically an 80D with a larger body (call it an "8D" if you like). This could sell well and continues Canon's trend of pushing FF down the line from the top. A 2018 release would match the expected timing of this as seen on the Canon EOS timeline (look at when the 5D and 6D appear). A 24 Mp FF could have great latitude and color for an amateur camera, and this would push competitors to release similar cameras. Canon has consistently signaled their support for FF sensors.

Having said that, I don't expect a MF option from Canon in the near future as the economics probably don't make sense yet. Chip cost grows as the cube of the die area, and lens cost appears to have a super-quadratic relationship to mount diameter. With limited customers, it is a niche market that may not justify the infrastructure investment until the mid-2020s. What I would love to see is a Canon 10cm x 10cm sensor LF system with ~5 micron pitch, but the sensor alone I currently guesstimate at ~$15k even at 28nm. In several years that might become cost competitive with current scanner backs, but what will those cost then? And who would buy it? 

::sighs, and dreams of giant landscape prints::


----------



## Mikehit (Sep 20, 2017)

Anyone remember this rumour? 

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32501.msg662460#msg662460

:-X


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 20, 2017)

scottburgess said:


> But I haven't seen mention of the most obvious: a FF amateur camera, basically an 80D with a larger body (call it an "8D" if you like). This could sell well and continues Canon's trend of pushing FF down the line from the top.



Wait, what? The 6D Mk II is literally that, a full-frame 80D. (Except with less base-ISO DR :) A lower-tier FF would have to have a Rebel-like feature set and build. I'm pretty sure there's no market for that sort of a body.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 20, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> scottburgess said:
> 
> 
> > But I haven't seen mention of the most obvious: a FF amateur camera, basically an 80D with a larger body (call it an "8D" if you like). This could sell well and continues Canon's trend of pushing FF down the line from the top.
> ...



Or, and I wince as I do this -- some premium-priced bougie/style-oriented showpiece of a rig like the Nikon Df?

Remember _these_ ads?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p5k-ade0Hg&feature=youtu.be&t=27s

Why do this? If current sales price is any reflection on enduring demand (or how companies never discount certain products), consider that the Df is still purring at $2750 at B&H some three years after it was released.

For perspective: similar Ferrari-like exotics like the RX1R II is sitting at $2750 and Leica Q is still at it's original $4250, both at about 2 years of age today.

Perhaps the new SLR is for the one-percenters that don't spend much time researching gear enough to know when something is behind the curve? 

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 20, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Anyone remember this rumour?
> 
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32501.msg662460#msg662460
> 
> :-X


Yes he knows everything because it has been shown to him, there is never any proof, but we are told that the proof is coming soon..... but it never is......

I regard his posts as humour.... one certainly can't take it serious.....


----------



## AJ (Sep 20, 2017)

FWIW Canon has its cine line, which is very much aimed at professionals, competing with traditional cinema camera systems like Arri. . I don't see how a medium format still camera system is any different.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 20, 2017)

I noted the term DSLR (Digital Single Lens Reflex), which has a mirror.

A mirrorless camera is NOT a DSLR.

So, we could have a Hybrid DSLR as has been patented a few times. That might be seen as a stepping stone, and would have a mirror as well as the ability to raise it and have the viewfinder become a EVF. There were different ways to do that, but it basically allowed a person to use the viewfinder for both PDAF and DPAF.

I think that the time for a hybrid has passed, and a FF mirrorless is due, but if the presentation said DSLR, either its wrong, or its still going to have a reflex mirror.


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## ahsanford (Sep 20, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I think that the time for a hybrid has passed, and a FF mirrorless is due



Likely, but not certainly.

If Canon goes the fairly predictable 'keep it small' route and altogether remove the thickness the mirror used to occupy, then yes, a hybrid doesn't make much sense.

But if Canon goes with the 'keep it seamless' route and goes with a full EF mount mirrorless offering, there could be a transition generation or two of hybrid setups to get SLR users accustomed to mirrorless before the mirror is altogether taken away someday.

- A


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## unfocused (Sep 20, 2017)

I'm not sure if the balance scale illustration is supposed to include this "weight" in favor of an EF mount, but I think this would definitely help tilt the balance:

EF Mount -- Investment in current lenses is not impacted. Cost of entrance is camera body only.

New Mount -- Prince of entrance into the mirrorless world goes up by $600-$6000+ depending on how many lenses the buyer wants to replace. 

End result -- every Canon DSLR owner is suddenly cut loose to shop on the open market with zero financial incentive to stick with Canon. Canon must completely rely on brand loyalty to retain customers. Their engineers, designers, etc. would argue that the quality of the camera would retain those customers. The people selling the cameras and paying the bills would argue that it's an unnecessary risk to take in a shrinking market. 

I think the people paying the bills and selling the cameras would win out.


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## neonlight (Sep 20, 2017)

> Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly. There is no free lunch.



...so why not FF mirrorless with fast (noblackout) EVF ...


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## ahsanford (Sep 21, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I'm not sure if the balance scale illustration is supposed to include this "weight" in favor of an EF mount, but I think this would definitely help tilt the balance:
> 
> EF Mount -- Investment in current lenses is not impacted. Cost of entrance is camera body only.
> 
> ...



Sure. I am not putting that chart forward to tip people's minds so much as paint two value propositions. My mind is not made up on this at all.

That said, that red bit above implies an adaptor doesn't happen in the 'keep it small' plan, and of course an adaptor will be offered. That would be mind-boggling fail if Canon didn't do that -- the new system's sales would be a fraction of what they could be. The ground floor expectation of Canon's mirrorless strategy is that EF glass is welcome to the party on day one -- with the sole exception if they try a batting practice fixed lens rig a la the Sony RX1R or Leica Q before they launch an MILC mirrorless platform.

And I'm not sure what side of the scales the 'end result' above applies to -- presume you mean the 'keep it small' plan? If so, again, an adaptor lets Canonites plug away with their EF glass on day one, so I don't see them being cut loose at all there. They will however, likely have to spend money on 'new system stuff' (batteries, charger, etc.) and at least one new 'keep it small' lens expressly designed for the new system to keep it small (say a 35 f/2 or something). 

- A


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## scottburgess (Sep 21, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> scottburgess said:
> 
> 
> > But I haven't seen mention of the most obvious: a FF amateur camera, basically an 80D with a larger body (call it an "8D" if you like). This could sell well and continues Canon's trend of pushing FF down the line from the top.
> ...



Price of 6D: $2000.
Price of 80D: $1400.
There are definitely some parallels, but also differences such as GPS.

But lets ignore that, and suppose it is a closer parallel to the Rebel. There are plenty of amateurs and folks with limited money who understand the benefits of a larger sensor. Just because someone is starting out in Canon gear doesn't mean they are ignorant. 

Canon does extensive market research and has a business plan that appears to include more FF offerings, so perhaps there is a market for such a body. We shall see.


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## AvTvM (Sep 21, 2017)

> New Mount -- Prince of entrance into the mirrorless world goes up by $600-$6000+ depending on how many lenses the buyer wants to replace.



utterly wrong and ridiculous. price of entrance into a new, native mount FF-sensored Canon mirrorless world will be 0 to max 250 USD or €. 

* 0 as in "zero" ... if Canon does the right thing and includes a simple "extension tube EF-X/EF mount adapter" with every mirrorless FF cam (which will not be sold cheap anyways)
* 99 USD if Canon charges extra ... as for EF-M/EF adapter 
* 250 USD ... only for those who want an EF adapter with full Phase-AF contraption including a (fixed) mirror - just like the Sony LA-EA4 (A-mount to E-mount). this will deliver absolutely seamless performance and behaviour for any existing EF lens, including old clunkers (without STM or NanoUSM AF drive).

Any further lens purchases can or cannot NOT be made at any future point in time ... if & whenever Canon launches new native mirrorless mount EF-X lenses that are better and/or more compact than old EF glass and EF glass owners would like to go for the new version - exactly like today's decision whethther to upgrade or not form a Mk. II lens to its Mk. III successor. But there will be no immediate "entry cost" into a new mount mirrorless system for existing Canon EF lens owners. Nothing other than cost of new body [and batteries and grip and new bags and and and .. ]. Also, Canon mirrorless FF bodies will likely be priced even higher than DSLRs with comparable specs - despite much lower production costs ... greedy Canon


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## Mikehit (Sep 21, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> * 250 USD only for those who want an EF adapter with full Phase-AF contraption including a (fixed) mirror - just like the Sony LA-EA4 (A-mount to E-mount). this will deliver absolutely seamless performance and behaviour for any existing EF lens, including old clunkers (without STM or NanoUSM AF drive).



I presume then that when Sony designed their flagship A9 they knew how they could get full operability with adapted lenses, but they chose to cripple that even for their own A-mount lenses.


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## Sharlin (Sep 21, 2017)

scottburgess said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, what? The 6D Mk II is literally that, a full-frame 80D. (Except with less base-ISO DR :) A lower-tier FF would have to have a Rebel-like feature set and build. I'm pretty sure there's no market for that sort of a body.
> ...



And that price difference, I suspect, is almost entirely about the sensor and related parts. A $1400 FF would probably have to make quite a few compromises, eg. no weather sealing, a small pentamirror viewfinder, less FPS, etc. Which screams "Rebel".

GPS is pretty much the only major feature the 6D2 includes and the 80D lacks. OTOH the 80D has things the 6D2 misses, such as a headphone jack and faster shutter/x-sync speed (due to the smaller shutter required). In basically all other respects besides the sensor size, they're close to identical.



> But lets ignore that, and suppose it is a closer parallel to the Rebel. There are plenty of amateurs and folks with limited money who understand the benefits of a larger sensor. Just because someone is starting out in Canon gear doesn't mean they are ignorant.
> 
> Canon does extensive market research and has a business plan that appears to include more FF offerings, so perhaps there is a market for such a body. We shall see.



Sure. But it doesn't quite make sense to me to prioritize the larger sensor to the extent of being prepared to compromise on other features that much, especially given how good crop sensors are these days.


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## jolyonralph (Sep 21, 2017)

I suspect this is going to be the '5DSR Mark II' that was previously discussed, assuming they can get performance up to a point where it will rival the Nikon 850.

So yes, expect a new line, which will have to be one of

EOS 2D (doesn't sound impressive enough)
EOS 3D (confusing if it's not a 3D camera)
EOS 4D (no way, 4 is an unlucky number to use in chinese-speaking Asia)
EOS 8D (most logical, but may be seen as 'inferior' to 5D and 6D lines)
EOS 9D (maybe)

So my money is on a 60 megapixel EOS 8D in a 5D Mark IV shell which won't be simply seen as a specialist high-resolution camera as the 5DSR was. 

Maybe we'll see a 120+ megapixel 8DSR in the future too


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## Pascal Parvex (Sep 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Pascal Parvex said:
> 
> 
> > The presented APS-H prototype sensors with 120 and 250 Megapixels will most probably end up in the 5Ds Mark II und III.
> ...



I know. I meant that those APS-H prototypes will end up als Full Frame Sensors in the 5Ds Mark II and III. The prototypes are APS-H because this is the size that is easiest for Canon to produce.


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## Tugela (Sep 25, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
> <p>If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.</p>
> 
> <ul>
> ...



A video centric camera would likely abandon the mirror since it just gets in the way. So, not a DSLR.

The 1DC replacement was the C100 and related cameras.


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## ourmark (Sep 25, 2017)

First post. Be gentle!

I'm going to guess that this is going to be a high MP FF sensor in a "pro" body similar to the 1DX.

I think it will have the 60MP sensor which is slated to go in the 5DSR mark II. After all, didn't that rumor come with a teaser that we would see the sensor tech in another body first?

Burst rate won't be near the 1DX. Maybe somewhere in the 5-7 fps range.

Upside for Canon: They can steer their pro users away from the 5D series to something more expensive!


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## Tugela (Sep 25, 2017)

scottburgess said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > scottburgess said:
> ...



Actually, it does, lol.


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## Tugela (Sep 25, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
> <p>If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.</p>
> 
> <ul>
> ...



A new "series" that is still a DSLR is far more likely to be a medium format camera than some iteration of what they already have. 

To be a new series it would have to be different from what they already have, in other words it would be addressing a different market space than FF/crop/Pro/consumer. All iterations of the latter are already covered and they don't need a new series to add to that. Medium format on the other hand has no current Canon camera in the market place.

Such a camera would cost a small fortune at retail and would require new lenses. It would be a very specialist camera, one that is no likely to appeal (or be affordable) to most here.


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## Mikehit (Sep 25, 2017)

I think 'DLSR' is often used mistakenly often enough for any camera with interchangeable lens, and given that this rumour is a CR1 (grapevine and Chinese whispers) it is easily possible that this could refer to a new camera, DSLR or mirrorless.


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## ahsanford (Sep 25, 2017)

Tugela said:


> To be a new series it would have to be different from what they already have, in other words it would be addressing a different market space than FF/crop/Pro/consumer. All iterations of the latter are already covered and they don't need a new series to add to that. Medium format on the other hand has no current Canon camera in the market place.



Agree a new series should serve a new/different market, but sensor size is not the only unexplored territory. What about:


A dedicated rig for the YouTube / vlogging / etsy / product unboxing crowd? Something clever with the ergonomics, with a constantly front facing LCD, etc.?


A 100% dedicated headshot/selfie rig with more ambitious (and integrated in the body) flash/illumination?


An ultra-light APS-C or FF module for drone operators?

- A


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## AvTvM (Sep 26, 2017)

something like "EOS 3DS, 3DS R and 3DS Astro" - positioned between 1 and 5 series DSLRs would definitely fully qualify to be rumoured as "new SERIES" of Canon DSLRs. even if ithe additional camera/s were only some of Canon's boring old "marketing and price differentiation" ploys and all specs of said "3DS SERIES" cameras taken "mix and match" from existing 1, 5, xxD and 'Rebel' SERIES of Canon mirrorslappers.


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## Psychic1 (Sep 28, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
> <p>If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.</p>
> 
> <ul>
> ...



1DsX coincides with a 3 year development cycle - Sept 2014 - http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1318815/0 

I was just getting ready to move to Nikon for the D850.

I changed my name to Dragonfire on FM in 2016 - see the video on www.lettersfromfrank.com


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## Talys (Oct 3, 2017)

docsmith said:


> Ummm...cough....a DSLR won't be "mirrorless"....almost by definition, it will have a mirror.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-lens_reflex_camera




To be honest, I could give a fart about whether a camera has a mirror or not, as long as it has a good optical viewfinder.

If they could build an OVF without a mirror, I would be very happy. Just imagine how glorious it would be to have a sensor that allowed through 99% of light, situated in front of a pair of stationary prisms that redirect light into a viewfinder =]


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## AvTvM (Oct 4, 2017)

Talys said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > Ummm...cough....a DSLR won't be "mirrorless"....almost by definition, it will have a mirror.
> ...



... as "glorious" and likely as icecream served steaming hot on a cold winter's day ... ;-)

smoke, mirrors, prisms, OVFs, aperture levers, chemical film, magnesium flashlights and other such contraptions have no place in digital cameras ... for obvious reasons. i like.


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## Ian_of_glos (Oct 4, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > docsmith said:
> ...


Nobody has mentioned smoke, aperture levers, chemical film or magnesium flashlights so why confuse the reader by including them in your reply?
Why can't each of us be allowed to choose whether we buy a camera with an OVF or an EVF? An OVF might not suit you but many of us prefer to use an optical viewfinder. Eventually the market will decide whether one of these technologies becomes obsolete.


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## AvTvM (Oct 4, 2017)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Nobody has mentioned smoke, aperture levers, chemical film or magnesium flashlights so why confuse the reader by including them in your reply?
> Why can't each of us be allowed to choose whether we buy a camera with an OVF or an EVF? An OVF might not suit you but many of us prefer to use an optical viewfinder. Eventually the market will decide whether one of these technologies becomes obsolete.



Yes. But. Only problem is, that there is PLENTY of choice of cameras with slapping mirrors and big fat heavy prisms in them, while users like me who prefer mirrorless, prism-less, noise-less, vibration-less cameras are NOT given ANY choice. At least not by Canon (or Nikon) and with 36x24mm sensor size ["FF"].


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## Ian_of_glos (Oct 4, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> Ian_of_glos said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody has mentioned smoke, aperture levers, chemical film or magnesium flashlights so why confuse the reader by including them in your reply?
> ...


I think there is probably a good reason for that.
When you are using the larger, heavier lenses that are required to cover a full frame sensor then the size of the camera body is less of an issue - in fact I would argue that it is an advantage having a large camera body to support the weight of a large, heavy lens that was designed to be used on a full frame camera - such as the Canon 70-200 F2.8. That is exactly what Sony found when they went off down that route. Their full frame mirrorless bodies are smaller than Canon or Nikon full frame DSLRs, but the lenses are the same size and weight. Putting one of the G master lenses such as the 70-200 F2.8 (1.48Kg) on an a7 body (556g) creates a combination that is top heavy and difficult to use.
EVFs do have some disadvantages as well as advantages and there is no point in freeing up the space used by the mirror assembly and pentaprism if it is not necessary to reduce the size of the camera body.


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## AvTvM (Oct 4, 2017)

Ian_of_glos said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Ian_of_glos said:
> ...



yes. but! 
vast majority of all images are NOT captured with lenses above 100mm focal length. I also own 70-200 2.8 II and other L lenses but use them only for planned shootings. For everything else I would like to have an as small and light as possible gear - fully capable FF camera + a few moderately fast compact lenses in focal length range between 24 and 85mm - (pancake) primes and f/4.0 zooms.


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## Ian_of_glos (Oct 4, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> Ian_of_glos said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...


I think you are probably saying that you should choose the right tool for the job - and I agree.
Where the size and weight of the camera and lens is the most important requirement, for example when you are travelling or for street photography, then I can see that a smaller, mirrorless camera with an MFT or an APS-C sensor would be a good option. However we were talking about full frame cameras, and this suggests that the quality of the image is the primary consideration, rather than the size of the camera. The Canon 70-200 f2.8L is very big but then so are both the Canon and Sony 24-70 F2.8, and these are likely to be lenses below the 100mm focal length that anyone using a full frame camera would consider. The Canon 24-70 F2.8 feels perfect on my 5D mk 4 and I don't think it would feel as comfortable on a smaller camera. 
The Sony 24-70 F2.8 is slightly heavier than the Canon (974g vs 805g for the canon) which I think would be feel top heavy on a camera as small as the Sony A7.
The Canon combination feels just right, it gives me the clarity and responsiveness of an optical viewfinder so why the pressure to change to a mirrorless camera? If it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 4, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> yes. but!
> vast majority of all images are NOT captured with lenses above 100mm focal length. I also own 70-200 2.8 II and other L lenses but use them only for planned shootings.



You're being your usual astute self, I see...assuming that your usage patterns represent the majority of ILC users. For many years, Canon has bundled an 18-55mm and a 55-250mm lens in Rebel/xxxD 2-lens kits...so perhaps Canon doesn't know what sort of lenses people want (very unlikely given their sales history), or perhaps users are just chucking the 55-250's into the bin (also quite unlikely, given that 'soccer moms and dads' often need a telezoom to photograph their kids' sports), or you simply don't know what you're talking about (very likely, given your posting history on CR). 

In addition to the 55-250mm lenses, there are lots of 18-135mm and 18-200mm lenses out there, and 10-20% of the time those are used at the long end (source, since unlike you I am able to provide actual data to support my claims). 

But hey, you go right on making ASSumptions and pulling numbers from your nether orifice, and stating all of them as facts. :


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## AvTvM (Oct 4, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > *vast majority of all images are NOT captured with lenses above 100mm focal length. *
> ...



so even on your "stats source" which draws on 500pix, flickr etc. only but not on instagram, facebook etc. ... you are saying 80-90% of images are NOT shot at the long end ... which is what I'd called "vast majority".

Furthermore even on your stat source, look at the 5 most used lenses ... all of them in the 24-105mm FL range. As per my statements. 

Also, I have reported you for the incessant ad hominem attacks and insults you are hurling at me, Neuro. I will consequently do so every time.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 4, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> so even on your "stats source" which draws on 500pix, flickr etc. only but not on instagram, facebook etc. ... you are saying 80-90% of images are NOT shot at the long end ... which is what I'd called "vast majority".



It's OK if you want to ignore the large 'other' category in the focal length data, I'm sure you just assume that category fits your viewpoint. I mean, 80% of the focal range of a 55-250mm lens is over 100mm, but, just go ahead and ignore that 'other' category. 

EDIT: as for your instagram/Facebook comment, if your statement about the 'vast majority of images' was meant to include cell phone cameras, then you are certainly correct about the vast majority being shot with lenses <100mm. Of course, in that case your comment is utterly irrelevant in a discussion on the topic at hand. Not that you have displayed any reluctance to make utterly irrelevant statements. 




AvTvM said:


> Also, I have reported you for the incessant ad hominem attacks and insults you are hurling at me, Neuro. I will consequently do so every time.



Go ahead. As I've stated before, if you make unsupported and ridiculous statements, ridicule will ensue. Reasonable, logical statements will beget responses of similar ilk.


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## Mikehit (Oct 4, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> so even on your "stats source" which draws on 500pix, flickr etc. only but not on instagram, facebook etc. ... you are saying 80-90% of images are NOT shot at the long end ... which is what I'd called "vast majority".
> 
> Furthermore even on your stat source, look at the 5 most used lenses ... all of them in the 24-105mm FL range. As per my statements.
> 
> Also, I have reported you for the incessant ad hominem attacks and insults you are hurling at me, Neuro. I will consequently do so every time.



Do you know how many images are cropped to mimic a photo taken longer than 100mm? I don't...
Do you know how many of those lenses were used on APS-C with an effective focal length longer than 100mm? I don't...

I think taking metrics from a sample that represents 15% of the total images is pushing things...


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## AvTvM (Oct 4, 2017)

you can argue all you want. The vast majority of stills images captured is done so with lenses between 24 and about 100mm [FF FOV equivalent]. Crops in post are a different story. Should not be mixed up.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 4, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> you can argue all you want. The vast majority of stills images captured is done so with lenses between 24 and about 100mm [FF FOV equivalent]. Crops in post are a different story. Should not be mixed up.



You can repeat yourself as often as you want, but that doesn't make you correct. It does however, make you annoying.


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## Mikehit (Oct 5, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> Crops in post are a different story. Should not be mixed up.



Crops are important. They show you the image the person wishes to have taken. I would venture that many people with something like a 5D3 will have a medium telephoto in their bag, and it is equally likely that on the day they went for a walk with the family they wanted to travel light and decided to leave the telephoto at home and crop the wider image. 
Mine is an opinion. Yours is an opinion. But taking the metrics from a sample of 15% and applying that to the whole population then stating it as 'fact' is pure sophistry.


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## Ian_of_glos (Oct 5, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > you can argue all you want. The vast majority of stills images captured is done so with lenses between 24 and about 100mm [FF FOV equivalent]. Crops in post are a different story. Should not be mixed up.
> ...


It doesn't really matter. The point I was trying to make was that high quality lenses that were designed for full frame cameras tend to be large. My favourite lens is the Canon 35mm F1.4L ii. Its focal length is well below 100mm and yet at 760g it is more than 200g heavier than a Sony A7ii (body only).


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## Jopa (Oct 5, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> mirrorless ... noise-less, vibration-less cameras



Apparently you've never shot the original A7r


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## AvTvM (Oct 5, 2017)

Jopa said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > mirrorless ... noise-less, vibration-less cameras
> ...



the totally inadequate shutter on A7 first series was pne of the main reasons i did notcswitch back then but biught another Canon mirrorslapper (5D3) ... definitely my last one however. depending on eventual canon FF Milc and Sony A7/R III (dont need A9 machine gun, 5-6 fps is enough for my shooting) ... and possible Nikon FF Milc ... will decide my next system.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 5, 2017)

Ian_of_glos said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Agreed, look at Sony's G-Master series. The only thing likely to change that in the future is the implementation of curved sensors.


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## ahsanford (Oct 5, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Agreed, look at Sony's G-Master series. The only thing likely to change that in the future is the implementation of curved sensors.



+1. No room for your fingers, in many cases physically longer than their EF counterparts, focus-by-wire [throw up in mouth face] and overpriced to boot. Pass.

- A


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## James Larsen (Oct 11, 2017)

What I want to see is Canon be a little more innovative. The 6DII is really a disappointment in quite a few ways. Not saying it's a bad camera - it's good. But it should've been better.

Anyway, a camera like the 80D with 4k video (C-Log, not that MJPEG format), 1080 120fps, peaking, zebras, and a little bit better ISO performance would be an awesome all-rounder.
Really wish Canon would put out something like that...


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## Ozarker (Oct 11, 2017)

JohanCruyff said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018.
> ...



Except that a M6 does not equal a 6D. An M5 does not equal a 5D.


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