# Focusing Screens for better Manual Focus with 5D Mark III



## georgecpappas (Jun 30, 2013)

In general, I have been very pleased with my Canon 5DIII. However, the one weakness that I have finally addressed is the use of a manual focusing screen. I wanted to let folks here know in case this was an issue for them.

Scenario:

I have several Zeiss Lenses and use Canon tilt-shift lenses that are all manual focus. While the focus confirmation "works" and allows me to achieve accurate focus (especially with the micro adjustment), I find the manual focusing process distracting with focus points and the focus indicator being the prime means of verifying focus when I am concentrating on the image. I longed for a good "old fashioned" microprism where I can simply look at the subject and focus the lens until it looks sharp and the microprisms are clear. This is less of an issue with my tilt-shift lenses as I almost always use live-view with the camera on a tripod. This is real issue with my Zeiss lenses that I focus hand-held, especially the 85mm.

I found a source for focusing screens from a review story linked to the Zeiss website; the provider can be found at *<dead link removed by mod>*. I believe the gentleman who runs this is based in Taiwan. He custom cuts Canon 1-series focusing screens to fit the 5DIII and includes installation tools and shims to achieve proper focus. In addition, he provides very clear instructions how to install the screen - it is fairly simple, if a somewhat nervous, exercise.

I have been using his microprism screen in my 5DIII for a month and am very satisfied with its performance. I did not need to use any shims as the thickness of the screen is exactly the same as the standard screen in my 5DIII. I have easily verified this by focusing the camera on a tripod and examining the image with magnified live view.

By turning the display of AF illumination points off in the viewfinder (custom settings anyone?), I now have a simple way to configure the camera for excellent manual focus at flick of a switch. It has changed the way I use my manual lenses and greatly enhanced my experience with the 5DII, which was already sky-high.

If you have the same manual focus issue that I do, this could be helpful for you.

A side note: after going through this, I have arrived at the conclusion that the only reason Canon did not provide interchangeable screens on the 5DIII is to maintain enough "separation" between it and the 1DX. I don't make this statement lightly as I have great respect for Canon and its products. However, the removal of the 5DIII screen only requires two screws and is a simple affair. Canon could have provided interchangeable screens for the 5DIII at low incremental cost if they wanted to.. I am thankful that I have an alternative..

I hope this is helpful for others..


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## THX723 (Jul 1, 2013)

Very cool. I'm looking into doing something similar eventually, so thank you for the review!

Btw, it's www.focusingscreen.com (without the 's'). ;D


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## Sporgon (Jul 1, 2013)

I had assumed that the 5Diii had a fixed screen as it uses a translucent LCD to put various features onto the screen. If you take the battery out of the camera the screen goes dark, in the same way it does on a Nikon. 

I'm curious to know if you're loosing any features such as AF point markings by putting a different screen in. 

I don't think the fixed screen was to differentiate from the 1Dx as the 6D has interchangeable ones, albeit probably because it uses many 5Dii parts such as prism, mirror box etc.


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## THX723 (Jul 1, 2013)

The focusing screen stacks over the transmissive LCD screen, so you would still have all the AF/grid elements in place and you certainly still need battery power for that. The question is if the added screen affects exposure metering in anyway.


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## georgecpappas (Jul 1, 2013)

Hi Guys,

I can confirm no effects on exposure..it is the same. The screen does sit on top of the transparent LCD panel so there no loss of AF features in anyway. The AF actually happens "below the mirror" through translucent transmission to the AF sensor not up in the pentaprism so the focusing screen does not affect AF function.

To clarify my earlier comment, I turn off the AF point display in the view finder when using manual focus lenses so that I can clearly see the central microprism without distraction. I turn on AF Point display when using auto focus lenses and everything else works the same as the standard screen.

Sorry for the mis-spelled link.

Regards,
George


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## Easer (Oct 28, 2013)

-Hi I have been looking for this ever since they released the mk3, very good news, so a heartfelt thankYou to the original poster...

So I hate a little to do this, but I need to ask, have any of You other done this, is it something someone with ten thumps can do....???

Just, I am (now that the s-screen is an option) thinking of buying the camera, so before I take the plunge I need to know, can I do this....???

Guess warranty is a problem but I am willing to take that risk as the camera probably will not fail the first two years anyway, and if it does then the chances of someone actually realize it is an different screen is rather small, so who cares....


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## mackguyver (Oct 28, 2013)

Interesting post - and why I kept my 5DII with the EF-S screen. I love everything else about the 5DIII, but manual focusing just isn't the same and I curse it every time I use the my 85 f/1.2.


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## tphillips63 (Oct 28, 2013)

I just ordered the EOS 5D Mark III Ec-B Focusing Screen. Manual focusing and having to use reading glasses the change from TTL to Live View is too disruptive for me and makes it no fun. 
So I avoid the use of my favorite lenses
I hope this brings me more functionality.
Thanks for the post. It sounds like we have similar desires for the focus screen.


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## East Wind Photography (Oct 29, 2013)

Just ordered the S screen. Used that on another body and makes it much easier to focus manually. Just note that in the ordering process I had to use the 2 letter state code in The shipping address where it was spelled out n the billing address.

The guy is probably losing a lot of orders because some can't get through the cart process.


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## mackguyver (Oct 29, 2013)

East Wind Photography said:


> Just ordered the S screen. Used that on another body and makes it much easier to focus manually. Just note that in the ordering process I had to use the 2 letter state code in The shipping address where it was spelled out n the billing address.
> 
> The guy is probably losing a lot of orders because some can't get through the cart process.


I'll be interested to see how this works out for you as I love the S screen in my 5DII. It definitely changes exposure, though, which is why the xxD, 5DII, and 1D series have a custom function to compensate for the S (super precision matte) and D (precision matte with grid) screens. Whether or not the transmissive LCD is affected or not is what I wonder about.


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## cayenne (Oct 29, 2013)

Funny..I was just reading and researching on this subject.

Is there not an official Canon screen replacement...vs this 3rd party one the OP was talking about?

TIA,

cayenne


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## mackguyver (Oct 30, 2013)

cayenne said:


> Funny..I was just reading and researching on this subject.
> 
> Is there not an official Canon screen replacement...vs this 3rd party one the OP was talking about?


Nope, Canon dropped support of interchangeable screens that are available for the 5DII and now only offers them for the 1DX. Not sure if they dropped it from the 70D as well, but the 60D had them.


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## East Wind Photography (Oct 30, 2013)

cayenne said:


> Funny..I was just reading and researching on this subject.
> 
> Is there not an official Canon screen replacement...vs this 3rd party one the OP was talking about?
> 
> ...



Just to clarify, the screens offered by focus screen.com are actual new canon mfg screens that have been modified for use in 5diii. They are not 3rd party screens. The trick is modifying them without damaging or getting the screen dirty. We'll see the condition when mine arrives. I will run some exposure tests before and after and will report back to this thread.

Previous reports have indicated a slight over exposure which in my opinion is en enhancement on the 5diii. I'll let you all know how it goes.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 30, 2013)

mackguyver said:


> Is there not an official Canon screen replacement...vs this 3rd party one the OP was talking about?


Nope, Canon dropped support of interchangeable screens that are available for the 5DII and now only offers them for the 1DX. Not sure if they dropped it from the 70D as well, but the 60D had them.
[/quote]

Canon does not consider the focus screen of the 5DIII nor the 7D to be user replaceable, most likely because of proximity to the transmissive LCD (aka "intelligent viewfinder"). IIRC, the focus screen in those bodies is held in place with small screws and shims are used for alignment, complicating replacement. The 5DII had a fixed and shim-aligned frame, into which an easily replaceable focus screen could be inserted. The 1D X was given a similar design, meaning presumably Canon could have included that in the 5DIII but chose not to, either for production cost reasons, or more likely, product differentiation.


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## e17paul (Oct 30, 2013)

mackguyver said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > Funny..I was just reading and researching on this subject.
> ...



The 6D also supports interchangeable screens - I have fitted an Eg-S to mine. I suspect that Canon has listened to customer feedback on the 5D3, and the 5D4 may see the return of interchangeable screen. That's one of my reasons for saving some cash by buying a 6D instead of a 5D3

If future Canons do not allow a better MF screen, then I will be looking for live view with focus peaking. That will probably mean a switch to Sony.


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## mackguyver (Oct 30, 2013)

e17paul said:


> The 6D also supports interchangeable screens - I have fitted an Eg-S to mine. I suspect that Canon has listened to customer feedback on the 5D3, and the 5D4 may see the return of interchangeable screen. That's one of my reasons for saving some cash by buying a 6D instead of a 5D3


I didn't realize that - it sounds like the old 60D / 7D in which the 60D had interchangeable screens and the 7D did not. The more I learn about the 6D, the more I'm beginning to think about replacing my 5DII with it.


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## sootzzs (Oct 30, 2013)

Hi guys,
Very interesting topic! I have a 60D and use manual lenses a lot! I never thought it is possible to change the focusing screen! Great news.

Could anyone please recommend me a good focusing screen for manual photography. Especially for macro work. It would be of great help.

Thanks!


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## mackguyver (Oct 30, 2013)

sootzzs said:


> Hi guys,
> Very interesting topic! I have a 60D and use manual lenses a lot! I never thought it is possible to change the focusing screen! Great news.
> 
> Could anyone please recommend me a good focusing screen for manual photography. Especially for macro work. It would be of great help.
> ...


It depends on your preference for the prism - if you like to use one, there are several choices. Otherwise, go for the super precision matte. It's only good for f/2.8 & faster lenses (slower lenses are darker, but not unusable) but with f/1.2-2.8 lenses, it makes a huge difference - it's actually clear, not grainy, and you can actually see the difference in bokeh between f/1.2 and 2.8. I had one in my 60D and it was awesome. Same goes for my 5DII, and when I pick up my 5DIII and try to manually focus, it looks grainy as hell.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 30, 2013)

sootzzs said:


> Hi guys,
> Very interesting topic! I have a 60D and use manual lenses a lot! I never thought it is possible to change the focusing screen! Great news.
> 
> Could anyone please recommend me a good focusing screen for manual photography. Especially for macro work. It would be of great help.
> ...



Your options from Canon are limited to:


Ef-A Standard Laser Matte focusing screen
Ef-D Precision Matte surface with etched grid lines. The camera’s AF points remain fully visible. Focus characteristics are suited to most lenses.
Ef-S The Super Precision Matte focusing screen is optimized for wide-aperture lenses from f/1.8 thru f/2.8. Areas that are slightly out of focus appear more out of focus, making it easier to tell when focus is right-on. It is ideal for users who frequently use manual focus in dim light with fast lenses.

Note that these are the same options as for the 5D and 5DII, but they are different sizes and are sold as Ee- and Eg- screens. The 1-series bodies take the Ec screens, and there are many more options in that format.

The Ef-A is in your camera now. The Ef-S is great for manual focusing with lenses faster than f/2.8, since the stock focus screen is laser microetched for a brighter viewfinder (good for slower lenses), but the tradeoff is that you see the DoF of ~f/2.5 when looking through the VF, even with a faster lens. The downside to the Ef-S is if you put on an f/5.6 lens the VF will be dim, perhaps too dim to see effectively in low light.

For 'macro work' you likely have an f/2.8 (or slower) lens, and so you won't benefit from the Ef-S screen. There are 3rd party options with a variety of modifications (split prisms, microprism collars, etc.) to make manual focusing easier.

Honestly, for macro shooting, I think Live View is far superior to the viewfinder.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 30, 2013)

If I were into manual focus, I think I'd strongly consider Magic Lantern and its focus peaking feature.


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## cayenne (Oct 30, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> If I were into manual focus, I think I'd strongly consider Magic Lantern and its focus peaking feature.



As soon as it at least gets out of Alpha for the 5D3...I'll be putting ML on my camera.

I just don't feel comfortable with it just yet...especially with it setting a permanent 'boot flag' on your camera's firmware that cannot be undone at this stage of the game.

But man...a bit more work, and I'm all over it!!!

cayenne


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## e17paul (Oct 30, 2013)

mackguyver said:


> sootzzs said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys,
> ...



I find the super precision matte to be bright enough even with slow zooms. The telephoto darkens to 5.6 at 300mm and gives me no problem, even in dusk conditions outdoors. However, I rarely extend to 300mm indoors.....


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## mackguyver (Oct 30, 2013)

e17paul said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > sootzzs said:
> ...


I found it to be a bit worse on the 60D with it's smaller VF, but it's really just something you get used to over time and not a big deal. With extenders at f/8 and but more so at f/11, it can be tough, though.


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## sootzzs (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks for the awesome advice all (Neuro, great as always!)! Mostly I use old manual focusing lenses for two types of photography: Portrait (with lenses like 58mm 2.0 Helios-44 , 37 2.8 mm Mir 1, Sears 50mm 1.4...even Chinon 135 2.8) and Macro (with tubes and various enlargers). I guess that for Protrait work the Ef-S would be great with my lenses. But for general use and Macro it could become a pain as I do my casual photography with EF-S 15-85 (3.5-5.6) or EF-S 55-250 and macros need to be atleast at f8 for sufficient depth of field. Hmm... It is quite easy to change the screen (thank you Youtube), but still doen't looks like a healthy thing to do on a regular basis. 

About Live view: I totally agree that it is the best tool when taking macros of still objects in controlled environment, but outside, with direct sunlight and moving bugs it not as easy and I tend to use the VF a lot more. A split prism like I have on my lovely Pentax Super ME (not a just Canon fanboy  ) could be a great all purpose screen. 

I've fond these on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-45-Focusing-Screen-For-Canon-40D-50D-60D-Camera-/250805194814?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6527903e .
Also the 180 degree. Have no idea what is the meaning of it. Can anyone comment on the quality and usefulness of these? How about the Ef-D? Would it work for both purposes? 

George, sorry for hijacking the topic a bit. Just didn't feel important enough to open a new one.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 31, 2013)

sootzzs said:


> I've fond these on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-45-Focusing-Screen-For-Canon-40D-50D-60D-Camera-/250805194814?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6527903e .
> Also the 180 degree. Have no idea what is the meaning of it. Can anyone comment on the quality and usefulness of these? How about the Ef-D? Would it work for both purposes?



The eBay ones are split prism like old manual focus cameras - I think dual 45° is two splits in an 'X' (vs. a '+') and the 180° is a single horizontal line split. The Ef-D just adds a grid for composition aid to the Ef-A. 

Have you considered a right angle attachment like Canon's Angle Finder C? Makes on-the-ground shots easier, and I've found the 2.5x magnification helpful for manual focus through the VF for macro shooting.


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## sootzzs (Oct 31, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> sootzzs said:
> 
> 
> > I've fond these on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-45-Focusing-Screen-For-Canon-40D-50D-60D-Camera-/250805194814?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6527903e .
> ...



It could be nice. I'll look into it. Thanks Neuro! I won't do too much of an outside macro till next spring, so I guess my priority for now is more for portraits. My 5 months son mostly. I think I'll try one of the cheap Chinese ones. For the price (~20$) I guess it won't hurt. Also, the Magic Lantern will find a place in my camera sooner or later. Just need to find some spare time to read about it a bit.


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## brianymarsh (Jan 11, 2014)

e17paul said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > cayenne said:
> ...




I also fitted an Eg-s screen to my Mark III. I made a video showing the process:

http://brianymarsh.com/blog.html

5D Mark III - Focusing Screen for Manual Lenses on Vimeo


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## JustMeOregon (Jan 11, 2014)

A tip of the hat to ya' Brian, you're a braver man than I...

Have you noticed any changes in exposure metering or auto-focus?


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 11, 2014)

So I just got around to replacing my screen in my 5d3 this morning with my new S screen. I had been sitting on it for some time. Got it through focusing screen.com

http://www.focusingscreen.com/index.php?cPath=21_134

It was video I saw here that motivated me to try. It was pretty painless. I haven't had much time to test exposure but I expect it to meter a bit over now...which is fine to me as I think the 5d3 tends to underexpose slightly anyway.

I tested AF and manual focus using my 85L and it was much easier and dead on. More results later...heading out tomorrow with my 600 f4.


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## East Wind Photography (Feb 7, 2014)

I've had a chance to use the 5D3 with the new S screen for a while now. I dont have a direct comparison or measurement on metering loss but I would have to say it's over by about 2/3 to 1 stop. For me this is not much of a problem as I generally expose to the right anyway. Where it gets tricky is when you are using strobes or have strong highlights...though knowing this you can just dial down a few clicks in those situations. I find I expose more to the right than rely on just metering alone so again this doesn't bother me personally.

The viewfinder is definitely and noticeably darker. If you had trouble seeing in low light before, then you may want to consider this before you purchase a replacement screen...at least the S screen.

The kit also came with shims to help align the screen with the focus point. However I did not need to use them. Manual AF came out exactly where it should be.

The screen replacement has made all of the difference when using my macro and thin DOF lenses like the 85 1.2 or 24 1.4. They dont recommend using this screen with lenses slower than F2.8. However even with the darker viewfinder, I was able to easily focus my 600 F4 manually whereas trying to do that with the factory screen was hit and miss. It is clearly easier to set focus than before.

As I mentioned before, the process was pretty quick and painless. A couple of things to note is to use a slightly magnetized screwdriver to trap the two screws, and to insert and remove the screws with the mirror pointing down at the table or work area. These two items will greatly reduce the risk of losing a screw inside of the camera.


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