# Nikon #1 for FF DSLRs(Dec)



## Chaitanya (Jan 24, 2018)

Lets see if Nikon can keep this momentum in 2018.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7401041032/nikon-claimed-the-1-spot-in-the-full-frame-camera-market-for-december-2017


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## Maximilian (Jan 24, 2018)

Good to see that there is still good competition.

Nikon was releasing quite competitive bodies lately and Canon could show the 6D2 here only.
The 1DX2 and 5D4 were released 2016 and the Ds/R's 2015. So it could be expected that the market here is saturated and all (that are not satisfied with their FF gear) are awaiting the successors.

Let's hope, this will push Canon further on in releasing really good featured FF bodies.


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## Talys (Jan 24, 2018)

It isn't really surprising that the D850 is the best-selling FF camera. This is the release window, and it's a major release, so it had better be, or Nikon would be in serious trouble.

If, after the release window, Nikon retains the lead in FF camera sales, then I believe that Canon should most certainly re-evaluate its strategy.

On the other hand, I am not a fan of rapid fire camera body releases in top end bodies. If I bought a 5D4 in 2016, I wouldn't want to buy a 5D5 in 2018. Screw that. And frankly, if I had a 5D4, I wouldn't buy an upgrade, if all that was there were D850 features. I would rather spend that -- or put it towards -- some shiny new lens big white that will last me 10+ years.


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## Woody (Jan 24, 2018)

Chaitanya said:


> Lets see if Nikon can keep this momentum in 2018.
> https://www.dpreview.com/news/7401041032/nikon-claimed-the-1-spot-in-the-full-frame-camera-market-for-december-2017



To announce such trivial news shows just how desperate Nikon is.

They are seriously losing market shares everywhere... Sigh...

PS: Similar thing happened soon after the D800 was released, but Nikon was not able to keep up the momentum.

PPS: I find their claim about sales of D850/D750 in Japan highly dubious. Just check out:
https://www.bcnretail.com/research/ranking/list/contents_type=41


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## IglooEater (Jan 24, 2018)

I hope it’s true. Canon needs healthy competition, imho.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 24, 2018)

Well done Nikon. The D850 seems a great camera and will keep my Nikon friends happy. The better Nikon are the better Canon will be. I think Nikon at least came out fighting with the D850. Companies like Pentax (besides the 645Z) just created me too cameras at best and have failed.


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## midluk (Jan 24, 2018)

I'm sure this wouldn't have happened if Canon had an EF 50mm IS available


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 24, 2018)

Woody said:


> To announce such trivial news shows just how desperate Nikon is.



Summary of recent market share-related price releases:

Sony: "We sold the second most of a subtype of ILCs over a two month period in one country."

Nikon: "We sold the most of a subtype of ILCs over a one month period in one country."

Canon: "We sold the most ILCs over the last year globally, just as we've done every year for the last 14 years."


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## unfocused (Jan 24, 2018)

Comments:

Rumors of Nikon's impending demise are exaggerated. 

Competition is good.

If Nikon was No. 1 for one month, that means someone else was No. 1 for the other 11 months -- most likely Canon.

This was not an industry report, but a report from a private tracking company, possibly hired by Nikon. That doesn't mean the numbers are wrong, but it does justify some skepticism.

A quick look at Amazon's best selling DSLR list is consistent with these results. 

This is full frame only, a small niche in the market. Apparently someone else was No. 1 in the much larger crop sensor category -- most likely Canon.

Nikon achieved this at the same time B&H and Adorama were having their 6DII price war. One might reasonably surmise that the 6DII is not selling as well as its predecessor. 

Buyers of full frame cameras are generally not newcomers to the market or brand jumpers, but rather are mostly upgraders. To a large extent, this represents pent-up demand by Nikon owners.

It is in consumers best interests for Nikon to remain competitive and financially viable, so everyone should cheer the results.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jan 24, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > To announce such trivial news shows just how desperate Nikon is.
> ...


It also tells us what an exceptionally good camera the D850 is and if anything is ever going to lure me away from my Canon 5D mk4 it would be this product. Canon really do need to respond to this with something rather special.


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## FramerMCB (Jan 24, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> Well done Nikon. The D850 seems a great camera and will keep my Nikon friends happy. The better Nikon are the better Canon will be. I think Nikon at least came out fighting with the D850. Companies like Pentax (besides the 645Z) just created me too cameras at best and have failed.



Uh...about Pentax. Their K-1 they released is a very, very good and capable camera. Especially if your focus is on stills (video not so much). Just as good a sensor as what's in the new Nikon D850. A more rugged build than either similar Nikon or Canon models. And a helluva lot cheaper price-point. So...anyway. I've said my piece.
Carry on.


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## Tugela (Jan 24, 2018)

See if they can sustain those sales. What counts are annual sales, not monthly sales just after the release of a new product. The D850 pushed the numbers up because to a large extent the owners of the previous model were replacing their bodies. But that will only happen for a month, then it is back to Canon and Sony dominating new buyers.

Looking at the digital camera best sellers rankings at B&H, Canon 5D4 takes top spot, followed by Sony a7RIII, with the Canon 6D2 in third. The D850 comes 4th. That should give some indication of where Nikon are heading in terms of sales.


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## Mikehit (Jan 24, 2018)

Tugela said:


> But that will only happen for a month, then it is back to Canon and Sony dominating new buyers.


If the marketing men have their way, December they will be the #1 because of the D850 and D500 with people 'buying' placed on orders, next month they will be #1 because the deliveries will now be called 'sales' because that is when they get their hands on it. Then in February they will be #1 because of the photos posted in 500px and host of other sharing sites when people use their shiny new toy.


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## YuengLinger (Jan 24, 2018)

That's it. I'm selling all my Canon gear and buying all Nikon through the birdsassfart website.


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## Talys (Jan 25, 2018)

YuengLinger said:


> That's it. I'm selling all my Canon gear and buying all Nikon through the birdsassfart website.



Sok. Send $4k, and maybe like the dude who bought the bitcoin mining rig, you can get your very own box of DVDs with a copy of Boss Baby


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## Ah-Keong (Jan 25, 2018)

For Canon, looks like the 5Ds R mark II has a tough competitor....

;D


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 25, 2018)

I think its good news that Nikon is doing better, of course, it will take more time to see if that sticks. Hopefully, they won't make more big mistakes like the j series. 

I think that a FF mirrorless with all new lenses will put a lot of buyers off, particularly those with high end lenses.


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## monkey44 (Jan 25, 2018)

Talys said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > That's it. I'm selling all my Canon gear and buying all Nikon through the birdsassfart website.
> ...



HAHAHA -- the bitcoin mining rig -- that's funny. I want one -


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## IglooEater (Jan 25, 2018)

Ah-Keong said:


> For Canon, looks like the 5Ds R mark II has a tough competitor....
> 
> ;D



Good. Maybe it’ll force Canon to give us more faster. I doubt it will though


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## Ah-Keong (Jan 29, 2018)

IglooEater said:


> Good. Maybe it’ll force Canon to give us more faster. I doubt it will though



the cycle for 5D mark V, and 1DX mark III maybe. 
But I think the heat would be on the mirrorless full frame line.


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## tron (Jan 29, 2018)

I would welcome a 5DsR mkII (with same mpixel count which is more than enough) with improved sensor in both low and high iso (using the on-chip converter like 5D4) a couple of fps more, touch screen, GPS and a significantly better buffer. It doesn't need anything else (Yes I know the 4K trolls will protest but I do not care I just mentioned what I would personally like to see as minimum).


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## ahsanford (Jan 29, 2018)

Talys said:


> It isn't really surprising that the D850 is the best-selling FF camera. This is the release window, and it's a major release, so it had better be, or Nikon would be in serious trouble.



+1. There is pent up demand from the D810 users, a big marketing push and Nikon just offered a comprehensive upgrade. I'd be surprised if there _wasn't_ a big tick up in sales.

And monthly numbers don't wind up Canon. Change a noticeable percentage of market share by end of year, however, and it's a completely different story.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jan 29, 2018)

Ian_of_glos said:


> It also tells us what an exceptionally good camera the D850 is and if anything is ever going to lure me away from my Canon 5D mk4 it would be this product. Canon really do need to respond to this with something rather special.



+0.5

It appears to be a FF supercamera a la the A7R3 or A99-II... but this one is made by a company _that actually understands photographers' ergonomic, handing, menu, interface needs._ That means Nikon has a far greater likelihood of fulfilling the potential of that formidable spec sheet.

...but the 0.5 is just for the D850 looking like a strong product. I don't think Canon "needs to respond" to it, however.

Right now, (for stills users) the gripless D850 appears to be a 5D4 + 15 MP - DPAF for about the same price. To step up to 9 fps, you need to invest the better part of $1000. So for those salivating over this new camera really being more like the speed of the 1-series and the resolution of the 5DS, it comes at an A9 sort of price point, somewhere between a 5D4 and 1DX2.

(I still think the 5D4 is spec-wise in no man's land and could be categorically leap-frogged in resolution *and* framerate with the next 5DS... but it's still going to sell well because Canon knows how to move units.)

- A


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## ahsanford (Jan 29, 2018)

tron said:


> I would welcome a 5DsR mkII (with same mpixel count which is more than enough) with improved sensor in both low and high iso (using the on-chip converter like 5D4) a couple of fps more, touch screen, GPS and a significantly better buffer. It doesn't need anything else (Yes I know the 4K trolls will protest but I do not care I just mentioned what I would personally like to see as minimum).



I think the next-gen of Canon FF bodies will need to step up in throughput.

Current throughput possible in 2018:

A99-II = 42x12 = 504
A9 = 24x20 = 480
A7R3 = 42x10 = 420
D850 = 45x9 = 405 (with the grip)

Meanwhile:

1DX2 = 16 x 20 = 320
5DS = 50 x 5 = 250 
5D4 = 30 x 7 = 210

...and you see my prior point. There are three Sony bodies moving *2x* the data that the 5D4 does.

And this isn't just a competitive problem -- it's a problem for Canon portfolio-wise as well. The 5D4's identity in the portfolio as the 'all-arounder' (i.e. slightly less detail / faster fps than the 5DS) will likely just become 'second class to the 5DS2' as that product line's next offering might be 60 x 7 or something like that.

I still contend that Canon should have put another chip on the 5D4 and had it come in at 9 fps or so. That would have been a logical sweet spot to not threaten 1DX sales while still future-proofing it from being outperformed by a future 5DS2.

- A


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## tron (Jan 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > I would welcome a 5DsR mkII (with same mpixel count which is more than enough) with improved sensor in both low and high iso (using the on-chip converter like 5D4) a couple of fps more, touch screen, GPS and a significantly better buffer. It doesn't need anything else (Yes I know the 4K trolls will protest but I do not care I just mentioned what I would personally like to see as minimum).
> ...


Having a 5D4 I would really like that! I hope that at least 5D5 will run at this speed...


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## ahsanford (Jan 29, 2018)

tron said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > *I still contend that Canon should have put another chip on the 5D4 and had it come in at 9 fps or so. * That would have been a logical sweet spot to not threaten 1DX sales while still future-proofing it from being outperformed by a future 5DS2.
> ...



But this is where timing (and Canon being a creature of habit with product lifecycles) hurts Canon. If a 5DS2 drops at 60 x 7 in a year or so and 5D4 folks have to wait another 3 years for at (say) 36 x 9 in a future 5D5, the 5D4 camp may get happy feet and consider getting resolution _and_ speed right now.

- A


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## tron (Jan 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


True, still 5D4 seems like a major upgrade to 5D3 mainly due to sensor improvements.


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## Random Orbits (Jan 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



And Canon would be happy to have 5D4 users switch to a higher-priced 5DS2.


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## ahsanford (Jan 29, 2018)

Random Orbits said:


> And Canon would be happy to have 5D4 users switch to a higher-priced 5DS2.



^^ Give the man a cigar. ^^ It would appear that at least in the 1-2 years after the 5DS2 is out and the 5D4 has not yet been refreshed, Canon will in effect be operating in a good-better-best (6D2/5D4/5DS2) FF portfolio just like Nikon.

I just think a 9 fps call on the 5D4 would have lessened the blow of the release of the 5DS2 and possibly could have had the 5D4 remain viable as a $3k camera for a longer period of time. 

Anyway, I'm way OT on this, we should get back to this thread's point of YAPODFC.

- A


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## Mikehit (Jan 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > And Canon would be happy to have 5D4 users switch to a higher-priced 5DS2.
> ...



But don't forget the 9fps on Nikon comes at a hefty price! Despite that I quite like the almost-modular upgrade path that the D850 offers - keep portrait/landscape at 3,000 bucks but upgrade the fps if you need the speed without the ultimate rugged build of the flagship


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## scyrene (Jan 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > It isn't really surprising that the D850 is the best-selling FF camera. This is the release window, and it's a major release, so it had better be, or Nikon would be in serious trouble.
> ...



And even if it did upset Canon, there's no way they could respond in a few months. They aren't holding on to world beating models (with ready stock) they can just release at the drop of a hat.


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## ahsanford (Jan 29, 2018)

scyrene said:


> And even if it did upset Canon, there's no way they could respond in a few months. They aren't holding on to world beating models (with ready stock) they can just release at the drop of a hat.



Or can they? 8)

- A


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