# The Canon EOS 6D Mark II Mentioned [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 20, 2015)

```
<p>We’re told that the EOS 6D Mark II will not come until after the EOS 5D Mark IV begins shipping, which will be into the first quarter of 2016. This would follow the same timeline as the EOS 5D Mark III & EOS 6D announcement.</p>
<p>The EOS 6D Mark II will have a slightly smaller and lighter body. It’s suggested we may actually see it use a different battery than the LP-E6/E6n to help with weight reduction. There won’t be any radical changes to the body such as an EVF or articulating LCD. Expect the megapixel count to rise, but not above 24mp. It’s likely the EOS 6D Mark II will have its own sensor just like the original camera.</p>
<p>We’ve received very little about this camera over the last few months, so I suspect the timeline for an announcement is accurate.</p>
```


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## sanj (Apr 20, 2015)

Lighter body with a smaller battery is a good idea.


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## OmarSV11 (Apr 20, 2015)

As long as they don't screw ergonomics, Im down with a lighter smaller body. With the battery grip, two LP-E6 and big lens like the Sigma 50mm Art, the thing weighs so much that at some point I cannot withstand it no more, even using a Blackrapid strap.

I really hope they upgrade the focus points to at least 19 or implement the 70D system on it, recomposing in full frame with that few focus points it's a nightmare.


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## Chaitanya (Apr 20, 2015)

As long as AF receive a bump, I don't care much about resolution.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 20, 2015)

so safe too say
all you fellow 5d mark 3 owners/users can stop worrying till december/jan
cause there no new stuff coming till 2016??
so the new 5d4 and 6d2 are coming in 2016
jan-april 2016 are going too be interesting its going even more
influx of used and lowered priced 5d3 and 6d on the market come nov-dec 2015
so how better will the 6d2 be?? will it have the 5d3 specs just with more FPS and newer DIGIC 6+ or 7? will it be more all around camera NOT just for portraits,low-light and landscapes will it be decent for sports/action?? gotta long wait
so this year all we get are cinema cameras, new lenses and new rebels how about a new 80D camera??


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## bod (Apr 20, 2015)

I like the 6D and it meets my needs for much of my photography. FF performance with the cost, size, weight and ergonomics of the current body is great. I will be interested to see what upgrades 6DII offers and at what price. On my wish list would be:

1) An enhanced AF system. Whilst most of the time I use the centre point and focus-recompose as necessary there are occasions when I would like more AF options such as zone AF for sports photography, less need to recompose when shooting portraits wide open by having more AF points or having access to f/8 AF to increase reach with TC's.

2) Improved sensor performance as regards useable ISO range.


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## riker (Apr 20, 2015)

There should obviously be a small and light fullframe body and the 6D is an obvious choice.

But it should be MUCH smaller and lighter. NOT slightly.

Changing the battery for that reason is bullsht though, it could be much smaller and lighter even with the same battery. But what the hell, if it's a significant change I don't care about the battery. If it's just a slight change, I don't care about the whole thing at all.

And no, a camera does not need to be big to be ergonomical.


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## JohanCruyff (Apr 20, 2015)

Rule: 6D(x) (almost) = 5D(x-1)
6D1 has (almost) 5D2's resolution, 5D2's (similar) AF performance, (slightly better) Image Quality.
According to this rule, 6D2 should be similar to 5D3. 
My 2 cents: I don't expect so much. I just hope it will compete with Nikon's D750.
Alternatively Canon could release a 8D (basic FF to compete with D610) and a 6D2 (advanced FF against D750), leaving 5D4 and D8x0 in another league.


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## paulc (Apr 20, 2015)

riker said:


> There should obviously be a small and light fullframe body and the 6D is an obvious choice.
> 
> But it should be MUCH smaller and lighter. NOT slightly.



I'd be completely fine with an SL1 with a full frame sensor.


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## bmwzimmer (Apr 20, 2015)

Full PC body instead of just the top plate plus lighter battery will reduce probably 75g. They need to reduce all physical dimensions to make it worthwhile. I'd be happy with a 150g reduction...


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## Luds34 (Apr 20, 2015)

Lots of little things could be improved, but if there are only two I could have they would be the following:

1) Better focus system, The 19 pt system from the 70D/7D would be perfect. DPAF would be a bonus too!

2) Max shutter speed kicked up from 1/4000 to 1/8000. The 6D is a "portrait" camera. Fast primes outdoors run into a ceiling on over exposure and that extra stop makes a big difference.


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## erjlphoto (Apr 20, 2015)

Changing the battery is a mistake. It keeps current 6D owners from upgrading to the mkii. Possibly that is the strategy, we should go for the mk iv instead?


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## ScottyP (Apr 20, 2015)

I don't care about weight; the lenses usually weigh as much or more than this light camera.

Give me:

_*Better AF*_. At least the 70d/T6i 19 point setup. Why not a few more in 2016, though?

_*Deeper buffer*_. I don't really care too much for more FPS (but wouldn't say no), but I would like to shoot longer bursts on RAW.

_*Improved IQ at high ISO*_. But this is always something I want and will always want to see improved from model to model. The current 6d is actually quite good at this; I just think this is something that is really helpful in the fundamental operation of any camera, so improvement is always helpful

_*Faster flash sync speed*_. 1/250th would be great, but would be ok with just the standard 1/200th. This is not really a huge issue with HSS available, but on principle I would like them to eliminate the 1/160th limit, which is the other unnecessarily stingy ripoff in the 6d, besides the overly rudimentary AF.


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## Takingshots (Apr 20, 2015)

Wish they could push forward 6D MKII releases before Christmas so that I can stuff up the Christmas stocking as a nice photo op on X'mas day for the family. After X'mas .. meh ...money already spent.


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 20, 2015)

JohanCruyff said:


> Rule: 6D(x) (almost) = 5D(x-1)
> 6D1 has (almost) 5D2's resolution, 5D2's (similar) AF performance, (slightly better) Image Quality.
> According to this rule, 6D2 should be similar to 5D3.
> My 2 cents: I don't expect so much. I just hope it will compete with Nikon's D750.
> Alternatively Canon could release a 8D (basic FF to compete with D610) and a 6D2 (advanced FF against D750), leaving 5D4 and D8x0 in another league.


The 6D has way better IQ than the 5D MKII shot with both extensively last year on a trip to Wales and in low light the 6D is better than the 5D MKIII.


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## painya (Apr 20, 2015)

JohanCruyff said:


> Rule: 6D(x) (almost) = 5D(x-1)
> 6D1 has (almost) 5D2's resolution, 5D2's (similar) AF performance, (slightly better) Image Quality.
> According to this rule, 6D2 should be similar to 5D3.
> My 2 cents: I don't expect so much. I just hope it will compete with Nikon's D750.
> Alternatively Canon could release a 8D (basic FF to compete with D610) and a 6D2 (advanced FF against D750), leaving 5D4 and D8x0 in another league.


I hate this reference but I'm using it anyways. Image quality of the 6d is on par with, if not better than the 5d mk iii. (Dxo)


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## da_guy2 (Apr 20, 2015)

Chaitanya said:


> As long as AF receive a bump, I don't care much about resolution.


+1 that's the only reservation I have when recommending the 6D. If they fix that, the I'll be happy.


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## JohnBran (Apr 20, 2015)

no articulating LCD?
I'm getting old and articulating LCD for me is now must. Shame after all the years with Canon looks like i have to move over to Nikon.


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## candc (Apr 20, 2015)

I would not expect to see a fancy sports orientated AF system on this camera. Canon does not want any confusion. That is what the 5div and 1dxii are for.


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## antonioleandro (Apr 20, 2015)

I currently own a 6D and a 7D mark II. I would love to have an improved autofocus system on the 6D. Combining the shallow DoF of the full frame sensor and the fast primes with only 9 autofocus points, hence the need to focus and recompose, reduces the keeper ratio. 19 autofocus points would be much better, specially with they were not concentrated on the center of the frame.

Introducing a new battery type is A BIG MISTAKE. LP-E6 batteries can be used in the 6D, 7D II, 5D III, 5Ds 5Ds R. A Canon user may migrate from one camera on this list to others and use the same batteries he already has. If I had to buy all my batteries again, I might consider waiting one or more years, save more money and buy the 5D IV instead (or buy no camera at all and keep the 6D for a longer period).


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## K (Apr 20, 2015)

For a 6D2,

I require:

1. Dual card slots (don't care which kind or mix and match).


1/8000 shutter, 1/200 Sync, 5fps, Anti-Flicker, Custom File Names and several other little things would be very welcome, but not a deal breaker. On the other hand, not getting these things or most of them would be kind of shameful to Canon as it shows they are not allowing this line to progress even slightly with what are considered to be fairly normal or standard features these days.

It would be hard to imagine Canon getting away with the same AF system again. It would be a huge let down and a point for ridicule in the industry. Therefore, I imagine it will probably get something along the lines of the 70D like others have speculated. I've speculated they won't go as far as to give the 61 point system from the 5D3 as to not get too close to a 5D4 system. Although, even if the 5D4 is a big leap in AF intelligence and speed - I still doubt 61 is happening on the 6D2 because it's still too good of a system. Either way, the 19 point system is a token upgrade - but still at least an upgrade. In an ideal world, Canon should create a new system for it - better than the 19 point, but maybe not quite the 61. 


In Canon's brain, dual card slots is a "pro" feature. We know it, they know it. Data integrity is key. With two slots, the odds of a bad card ruining a segment of a critical photoshoot or wedding becomes almost nil. Canon knows this, so I think they will continue to hold out on that and still offer the same old single SD slot. While a single slot was the norm prior to dual slots, it was out of necessity. Now that dual slots exist, dual slot becomes the necessity. At this point in time, if you don't cough up the cash for a camera with two slots - you can't blame the lack of technology for failing to protect your images. It is now on you. Whether your client knows this or not, who cares. You know it. This is the wedge.

Canon doesn't want pros getting off easy and cheap with the 6D. They want to deter them via risk in losing photos. And thus, by crippling the camera - they push pros up to the 5D series. This of course is stupid, because only a few pros will do this - most will still buy the 5D series for the obvious advantages it has. And for those who "cheap out" with a 6D2, great for Canon anyway. They are keeping pros within the Canon system. In my view, that is better than having them run off to Nikon which IS happening. I don't understand the logic in pressuring the lower budget pro market for upsell? Why make the "barrier to entry" steeper for people starting out in the career of photography? These are the very people they should be catering to.

And I'll rant about it again. Only Canon does this bullcrap. Nikon has no issues putting 2 slots on the 7100 / 7200, 610, 750 ... Nikon isn't trying to force their users to the D810 by crippling the 610 with a single slot. What is a better camera for a wedding? D610 or 6D? Clearly the D610 - better AF, 2 slots. Faster sync. The current 6D is an enthusiasts camera. For portraits, landscapes etcetera. But why give up that segment of the market to Nikon?

And the body size is no excuse for lack of 2nd slot. The D7100 is small and has 2 slots.


If Canon puts 2 slots on this camera, I could care less what other features it has - I'm buying. 

If Canon keeps it a 1 slot camera, they can keep it. I'm not rewarding this kind of behavior by buying it.


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## RenKockwell (Apr 20, 2015)

I love my 6D. Since it's weakness is autofocus, I wouldn't be upset if they made the Mark II mirrorless. If the autofocus were the same or better it's a win in my book. Better image quality is always a plus too.


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## preppyak (Apr 20, 2015)

K said:


> The current 6D is an enthusiasts camera. For portraits, landscapes etcetera.


I agree. Which is why I find it so silly that they dont just embrace that and give it enthusiast features. Like the articulating screen. It's not like the 6D is weather-sealed and the screen would compromise that.

And for Canon, they may well get a lot of people moving from the 70D to 6D (and thus buying more expensive lenses) for the image quality boost.


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## zlatko (Apr 20, 2015)

K said:


> For a 6D2,
> 
> I require:
> 
> ...



The 6D2 isn't what you require. What you require is a 5D3 and/or 7D2.


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## zlatko (Apr 20, 2015)

paulc said:


> riker said:
> 
> 
> > There should obviously be a small and light fullframe body and the 6D is an obvious choice.
> ...



Yeh, me too. It wouldn't be my only camera, but I would love to have such a camera. The 6D is Canon's "small" full frame. I'm hoping the 6D2 will be even smaller. There will be other cameras for people who want big cameras with all of the big camera features (namely, the 5D series and the 1D series).


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## zlatko (Apr 20, 2015)

JohnBran said:


> no articulating LCD?
> I'm getting old and articulating LCD for me is now must. Shame after all the years with Canon looks like i have to move over to Nikon.


Well, there's the 70D, by all accounts a fine camera. And the various Rebel models with an "i" in their name.


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## K (Apr 20, 2015)

preppyak said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > The current 6D is an enthusiasts camera. For portraits, landscapes etcetera.
> ...




That's one angle for sure. But a very different approach. For me, Canon doesn't have a proper entry level "pro" camera. They made sure of that by giving the 6D an old AF system and one card slot.

Rather than use the 6D to entice crop shooters to move up, they should instead attract folks who can't afford the 5D series but want in on the game.

I could be very, very wrong - but I see an entry level pro camera being more successful than an entry level FF camera for crop shooters. My experience with crop shooters is the vast majority are true enthusiasts, and they LOVE the IQ their crop sensors produces and they tend to be staunch defenders that APS-C is perfectly fine. That and they don't want to start buying all new lenses.

In other words, crop shooters have a very high degree of satisfaction with their cameras and the IQ they achieve. 70D owners are prime example of this. 

The entry level PRO needs low light performance. It isn't that most really care about more depth of field, with the exception of some really hard core portrait shooters using insanely fast primes. The FF camera for most event shooters, which are also the majority of pro shooters, is all about better ISO, low noise for low light scenarios. To get usable shots when the lighting is awful, which is the case at many events.

Make an APS-C camera with better ISO performance than FF, and I'll never buy a FF again. But we know that sensor tech doesn't allow this to happen in any kind of apples to apples comparison.


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## JumboShrimp (Apr 20, 2015)

My back and shoulders are pleased to hear that it may be smaller and lighter than the Mark I.


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## Dekaner (Apr 20, 2015)

zlatko said:


> The 6D2 isn't what you require. What you require is a 5D3 and/or 7D2.



This pretty much summed up the thread for me. Well said zlatko!


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## zlatko (Apr 20, 2015)

K said:


> That's one angle for sure. But a very different approach. For me, Canon doesn't have a proper entry level "pro" camera. They made sure of that by giving the 6D an old AF system and one card slot.



"Entry level pro camera" is a bit of an oxymoron. It sounds like you want pro features for a consumer price. 

The 6D's center point AF is fantastic for events (weddings, etc.). You can call it "old" but it's spec'd for lower light than any of their older cameras.


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## The Flasher (Apr 20, 2015)

Better af, faster sync speed, dual card slots. In that order.


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## sanj (Apr 20, 2015)

The only interest I have in this is a FF camera in a light/compact design with super IQ. 
Canon has other camera's for my other needs.


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## 9VIII (Apr 20, 2015)

paulc said:


> riker said:
> 
> 
> > There should obviously be a small and light fullframe body and the 6D is an obvious choice.
> ...



I'd be more than fine with a full frame SL1, it would be ideal.

I want the body on the back of my 400f5.6 to be as small as possible so that I can carry it in various packs and pouches without removing it, it's also nicely balanced with a lightweight body. The T3 still lets me carry the whole thing in a pouch on the side of my backpack, when I tried using the 5D2 that sort of thing was nearly impossible.

Actually as far as I'm concerned I'm primarily holding the lens, if they could make an endcap with a sensor and let me use it like a telescope that would be even better.


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## K (Apr 20, 2015)

zlatko said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > That's one angle for sure. But a very different approach. For me, Canon doesn't have a proper entry level "pro" camera. They made sure of that by giving the 6D an old AF system and one card slot.
> ...




How do you figure? Entry level doesn't mean $600 Rebel. 

At release, the 5D4 is likely to be around $3,800. We all know the 1D series will always be up there high.

If the 5D is Canon's "entry level" for Pro gear, then that is unfortunate, as they have surrendered a whole segment of the market place to Nikon. Because Nikon is offering PRO features and quality in the D610 and D750 for under $2,100!!!!!

It would make sense to have a Pro capable camera with Pro like features in the $2200 range. Or even $2500. That's a big savings and big step down in price bracket from the nearly $4,000 5D cameras. At even $2500, that is an $1800 savings from the 5DS. $1800 is not spare change for anyone doing photography. That is another high quality camera body. Or another fast pro lens. Or a profoto strobe...you get the idea.

This camera should be capable, but of course - not a market place threat to the 5D. This is why 61point AF would be unlikely. But 11 points and a single slot? C'mon Canon - don't tell me you're that insecure or that intent on pushing folks up a level at the expense of many others simply dropping the platform. My complete and total speculation is that for every one person they move up to a 5D, 2 or 3 either stay lower end or move on to another platform. This is a waste, because Canon could bump up a lot of people into the medium range.

Figure this...

A Canon 6D2 with at least 19AF points and 2 card slots could be a decent wedding camera. Something a pro could get by using without any issue. At around $2000 - $2200, it would leave enough money left over to buy a whole 7D Mark II compared to the 5DS/4.

6D2 + 7D2 is better than having a single 5D4. With a proper 6D2, Canon can keep (for that amount of money) more people in the system. And for those who can't spend that much and go single camera, they at least have a pro-ish camera to work with. Some may go with a 6D2 and maybe a 70D or Rebel as backup body. Either way, they either keep the photographer, or they sell 2 bodies instead of one.

The pros who can afford, will get the 5D4 regardless. The more successful will buy 2 of them. 

What can alter this assessment? The 5D4 comes in at $3300 or less. Doubtful. Right now is the perfect time for pros to buy Canon gear. Pick up cheap $2K 5D3 and a 7D2 makes a great combo for any event or situation. 

I suppose that I'm not only arguing in favor of a more Pro-ish 6D for entry Pro use - but also against the steep pricing of Canon bodies.

Right now, just under $2K for D750 at a major online authorized retailer. Do not tell me the D750 isn't a serious camera with great features. It is very comparable to the 5D3.


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## SoullessPolack (Apr 20, 2015)

Why are people so obsessed about having a lighter battery? Do you guys realize the battery in a 5D Mark iii weighs under 80 grams?? The 6D itself weighs about 700gm. The battery is close to being only 10% of the weight of the camera. And guess what, when they reduce the battery size and weight, it's not going to shrink down to 0. It won't even be as little as half. But let's say half for comparison's sake. You're talking about a realistically imperceptible difference in weight when you factor in that you will have a lens mounted on the camera. 

Me personally, I'll take the extra 20gm of weight in order to get a bunch more shots.


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## K (Apr 20, 2015)

SoullessPolack said:


> Why are people so obsessed about having a lighter battery? Do you guys realize the battery in a 5D Mark iii weighs under 80 grams?? The 6D itself weighs about 700gm. The battery is close to being only 10% of the weight of the camera. And guess what, when they reduce the battery size and weight, it's not going to shrink down to 0. It won't even be as little as half. But let's say half for comparison's sake. You're talking about a realistically imperceptible difference in weight when you factor in that you will have a lens mounted on the camera.
> 
> Me personally, I'll take the extra 20gm of weight in order to get a bunch more shots.




Great post! Very true. There's really no benefit for weight savings.

My interpretation is SPACE savings. Which indicates they are going for a smaller body. That is unfortunate, as the 6D is a great size. It is quite a bit smaller and lighter than the 5D3. But it isn't toyish small like the Rebels. 

Smaller means they will likely change the controls towards more consumerish type controls. Less buttons on top, more on the back in a crowded fashion. One can look at existing Canon bodies that are smaller and their controls layout.

Who is it they are trying to appeal to? It must be the hard core travel enthusiast. The person who wants FF IQ in a smaller package for travel. Now to me, that is an oxymoron. Since to realize the full potential, one will need pro level glass. And none of the pro level glass is light or small. What sense does it make to save a few grams on the body if one is going to lug around huge pro optics?

Put some crappy travel lens on it, you just wasted the IQ of the camera. Better off with an APS-C.


Right now, the 5D3 is in a similar price bracket as the D750, and they are both very similarly featured cameras, each having some advantages over the other. But the 5D3 is going to be replaced and not exist anymore at some point. What is it that Canon will have to then compete in the $2,000 - $2,500 realm?

My hope is they beef up the 6D for that role. If not, there will be a very consumer 6D2 - and then a huge leap in price to the 5D4. Not just huge leap in price, but in functions and features too. 

The worst of all worlds will be if Canon puts out a neutered, crippled, consumerish 6D2 AND prices it in the $2,000 - $2,500 range. That will be a joke. But I wouldn't put it past them.


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## ahsanford (Apr 20, 2015)

Recapping for the TL/DR crowd, a summary of this thread:

I want it lighter.

I want more AF points

I want it 'more pro'.

I want it smaller.

I want dual-card slots.

I find this thread, this market segment, and this user-base to be *spectacularly *fragmented, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But Canon needs to intelligently chart a path forward in this (relatively chaotic) market. Consider: the 6D's price has absolutely plummeted since it's unveiling, which generally means they overshot on demand and/or underdelivered on product/features. People laughed at me when I said that the 7D2 would cost more than the 6D, _and yet here we are_.

Canon needs to decide if it will continue to maintain such a vast gulf in price and features between the 6D and 5D models, or if it will pull a Sony / Nikon move and build a good / better / best tiered approach. Canon has no Nikon D750 (part budget / part pro) sort of FF rig, and that seems to be the screaming need here.

So forget the "I wants" for a moment, let's put our Canon Corporate hats for a second and ask "What is our market segmentation going to be?" How about:


6D2: Go smaller/lighter/simpler, embrace plastic (build quality like a 70D maybe), keep MP where it is, _give it a damn pop-up flash_, and keep the asking in the $1500 neighborhood. Wonderful sensor, limited functionality and feature set, great price. Sell this to enthusiasts.


"5.5"D (let's not start a sidebar on naming, this is just a strawman for conversation): Give it the proper AF system of the 5D3, pump up the MP to 24-28 or so and a few more pro bells and whistles (better weather sealing, 1/8000 shutter, 1-2 C modes on the dial, f/8 AF center point for T/C use, etc.), and charge $2000-2500 for it. Sell it to price-conscious professionals and well-heeled enthusiasts.


5D4 / 5DS / 5Dc etc. These are your ~ $3500 no compromise rigs, likely specialized for "general all-purpose use" (5D4), max detail (5DS) and video (5Dc). Every spec is top end other than the super duper stuff they save for the 1D series.


- A


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## bluemoon (Apr 20, 2015)

what about leaving the 5DIII in production at $2k and moving the 6DII to Rebel line?
This would allow for a entry level FF and great price and a pro body for starting professionals.

pierre


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## ahsanford (Apr 20, 2015)

bluemoon said:


> what about leaving the 5DIII in production at $2k and moving the 6DII to Rebel line?
> This would allow for a entry level FF and great price and a pro body for starting professionals.
> 
> pierre



Love it. But it's great for us and bad for Canon, so it will never happen. Unlike in lenses (where there is a much longer lifecycle and you can have old/new versions co-exist), bodies aren't like that. 

Canon puts out a new model of body and then has a firesale to burn down inventory of the old model to keep the new model's price higher for a longer period of time. They are doing this right now with the 7D1 and they will certainly do it to the 6D1 when the 6D2 comes out.

One thing you hit on _will _happen, though -- the 5D3 will not be replaced and given away as quickly b/c the 5DS models are not a like-for-like replacement. We'll need testing to know this for sure, but in low light, I expect the 5D3 to outperform the 5DS rigs. So I see the 5D3 not going on a firesale until the _5D4_ comes out, which one would assume will more roundly and comprehensively outperforms the 5D3.

- A


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## JohanCruyff (Apr 20, 2015)

bluemoon said:


> what about leaving the 5DIII in production at $2k and moving the 6DII to Rebel line?
> This would allow for a entry level FF and great price and a pro body for starting professionals.
> 
> pierre




A few months after 5D4 and 6D2 release, (used) 5D3 will cost less than 2k and (used) 6D less than 1k. Two good opportunities for starting professionals (or people wanting a crop and a FF body).


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## zlatko (Apr 20, 2015)

K said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



There are entry level cameras and there are pro cameras. Two different categories. Entry level does mean $600 Rebel. 

Pros use all sorts of cameras. If they are just starting out, it will be a cheaper model, or perhaps a used copy of a more expensive model. I shoot full-time and the 6D is pro enough for me. I also use other Canon models, but could do everything with the 6D. 

I don't need every feature that Nikon offers at some particular price. I know that with Nikon I'd lose some features — something that people never seem to mention. Nikon doesn't match a lot of things in the Canon system, and I don't expect Canon to match every price/feature of the Nikon system.

I bought one 6D in early 2013 at $1,879 and another one more recently when the price dropped to $1,450. If you are in the US, the 6D price is now as low as $1,149. And the 5D3 which I bought at $3,500 in 2012 is now as low as $1,999 in the US. So Nikon's sub-$2,100 price on the D610 and D750 aren't that impressive.


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## ahsanford (Apr 20, 2015)

K said:


> If the 5D is Canon's "entry level" for Pro gear, then that is unfortunate, as they have surrendered a whole segment of the market place to Nikon. Because Nikon is offering PRO features and quality in the D610 and D750 for under $2,100!!!!!



Yes, recognizing that this is an imperfect comparison, I roughly peg...

...the 6D to the D610 at the $1200-ish price point
*...nothing to the D750* at the $2k price point
...the 5D3 to the D810 at the $2700-ish price point

I recognize -- for a host of reasons -- the comparison is not perfect. The key thing is not getting wound up with "but the D810 has 36 MP" or "the 5D3 has way better video" and so on. Canon has an offering at the entry-level FF and pro-level FF trimlines. The two companies may offer different features, but those price points are 'contested', if you will, with another option that is arguing for the same money.

What Nikon did that is clever is take the #1 limitation of the entry-level model -- it's AF system -- and replace it with the high-end version. There's more going on with the D750, but it strategically represents Nikon saying that there is a camera between entry level and pro, and there is huge value in giving photographers an 'upgrade' from entry-level that doesn't cost _another_ $1200 to get. That's not a bad idea.

- A


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## jc7222 (Apr 20, 2015)

My improvement wish list: 1) At least 30 AF points with all being cross-type and the center being dual cross-type 2) 2 SD card slots would be gr8 3) Improved dynamic range 4) 7 fps 5) built-in intervalometer 6) improved noise at high ISO - 6D's strength


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## NancyP (Apr 20, 2015)

The 6D does what I want it to do. It fits in my hand. I would move to a 6D2 if the sensor had a stop or two more dynamic range and resolution in the 20-24MP range. I think the 6D is a darn good basic full frame camera.


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## zlatko (Apr 21, 2015)

K said:


> If the 5D is Canon's "entry level" for Pro gear, then that is unfortunate, as they have surrendered a whole segment of the market place to Nikon. Because Nikon is offering PRO features and quality in the D610 and D750 for under $2,100!!!!!



With the 6D we can have interchangeable focusing screens and autofocus rated down to -3 EV. What a shame that Nikon doesn't offer these PRO features at the price of a 6D. Nikon have surrendered a whole segment of the market place to Canon!  Also how unfortunate that Nikon doesn't offer a radio-controlled flash like the $499 600EX-RT ... a nice PRO feature that will work even with a Rebel.

These comparisons always fail to convince because we pick & choose the features in a subjective way. For one person it's a lot of AF points and dual cards that matter. For another person it's something else.


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## ahsanford (Apr 21, 2015)

zlatko said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > If the 5D is Canon's "entry level" for Pro gear, then that is unfortunate, as they have surrendered a whole segment of the market place to Nikon. Because Nikon is offering PRO features and quality in the D610 and D750 for under $2,100!!!!!
> ...



Agree the 6D is a fine camera, but the D750 is impressive as well. Sure, it lacks you things you say (and I'll tack on that it is limited to a 1/4000 shutter), but it also has a comprehensively better AF system than the 6D and has a very strong sensor. 

- A


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## Crosswind (Apr 21, 2015)

K said:


> Since to realize the full potential, one will need pro level glass. And none of the pro level glass is light or small. What sense does it make to save a few grams on the body if one is going to lug around huge pro optics?
> 
> Put some crappy travel lens on it, you just wasted the IQ of the camera. Better off with an APS-C.
> 
> ...


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## jarrodeu (Apr 21, 2015)

Why this obsession with dual card slots on the 6D Mk II in order to make it "pro". Didn't the 5D Mk II only have a single slot? Seems like it was used successfully by a few pros including a handful of wedding photographers.

Jarrod


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## 9VIII (Apr 21, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> ...the 6D to the D610 at the $1200-ish price point
> *...nothing to the D750* at the $2k price point
> ...the 5D3 to the D810 at the $2700-ish price point



You must be a fan of the DXO method of counting.

www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1062499-REG/nikon_d_810_digital_slr_body.html
D810 $3000

www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847545-REG/Canon_5260A002_EOS_5D_Mark_III.html
5D3 $2500

The D810 is as different from the 5D3 as the 5D3 is from the D750.


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## Crosswind (Apr 21, 2015)

jarrodeu said:


> Why this obsession with dual card slots on the 6D Mk II in order to make it "pro". Didn't the 5D Mk II only have a single slot? Seems like it was used successfully by a few pros including a handful of wedding photographers.
> 
> Jarrod



So true. Btw. I use SanDisk cards and never ever had any problems. Anyone here that had problems with SanDisk in particular? I don't need dual slot on a 6D.


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## Hellish (Apr 21, 2015)

Come on canon lets roll out the 4k on this Camera.


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## dsut4392 (Apr 21, 2015)

It seems silly asking for features when the spec is already long decided, but this is the internet, so here is my wish list. A 6D2 (or 6D3) with 1-3 from my wish list would be a tempting upgrade, but without those there's not much in it for me.

#1 Articulating screen. If you've never used one, just shut up already about it not being 'pro' enough, or prone to damage etc. For macro & landscape articulating screen + live view is a huge benefit, something I really miss from my old 60D. Tempted to dig out & adapt my old Olympus Varimagni Finder, except that the focusing screen in the 6D (or basically any modern camera) isn't much chop for critical focus...
#2 Better AF, including DPAF and usable AF tracking. Live view AF on the 6D is a sad joke, and without Magic Lantern installed manual focus is basically crippled. I don't care how many AF points it has, as long as it can track focus reliably across the central 2/3 of the frame after I focus with the centre AF point & recompose. Obviously I would like this to work for video as well as stills.
#3 Improved dynamic range. Not saying the current sensor is bad (I used to shoot velvia ;D), but an extra stop or two would eliminate 95% of the times I bracket & HDR in post.
#4 Touch screen. The buttons all fall to hand nicely when the camera is held up to the eye, but with the camera at waist or ground level on a tripod controlling some functions on a touch screen would be convenient.
#5 Pop-up flash. Once or twice a year I go to use the flash for a little fill, only to realise it isn't there. Not a big deal, and would be fixed by #3 above anyway.
#6 Better wifi implementation (& better iOS app). Maybe if it was less rubbish I would use it more?
#7 Smaller & lighter would be nice in theory, but I do find the grip size & ergonomics of the current 6D much more comfortable than the smaller APS-C bodies. I often prefer to carry the camera in-hand rather than in a bag or around my neck, and without a decent grip this is much less practical.

And my DO NOT WANT list:

#1 - Mirrorless. I don't discount that one day someone may make an EVF that approaches the feel of a good pentaprism SLR viewfinder, but it hasn't happened yet. The effect on battery life is also significant
#2 - Shorter battery life. I can reliably get by with one LP-E6 per week in the current 6D while travelling/hiking. I don't want to have to buy 3 or 4 batteries for hiking, or remember the charger + power cord + adapter every time I go on holidays overseas.
#3 - Eleventy gazillion megapixels. From a nerdy aspect, I find ultra high resolution sensors ridiculously tempting, but in reality most of the time I would just be wasting space on my hard drive. Please save me from myself!
#4 - 4k video. If you have any current real need for 4k video, you should be looking at one of the new Blackmagic rigs. Also see #3.
#5 - dual card slots. I don't want the camera bumped up a price bracket simply to add features I have no use for. Go buy a 5D3/4;-p
#6 - bigger buffer +/- faster write speed. See #5
#7 - High FPS. See #5


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## eninja (Apr 21, 2015)

DPAF touch screen and all cross type AF point upgrade will do for me. Built in rt is bonus.


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## Luds34 (Apr 21, 2015)

eninja said:


> DPAF touch screen and all cross type AF point upgrade will do for me. Built in rt is bonus.



Yep, for sure the focus system is the biggest lacking feature of this camera. One has to think it will take a nice bump with even Rebels coming with the 19 point system.


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## The Flasher (Apr 21, 2015)

Crosswind said:


> jarrodeu said:
> 
> 
> > Why this obsession with dual card slots on the 6D Mk II in order to make it "pro". Didn't the 5D Mk II only have a single slot? Seems like it was used successfully by a few pros including a handful of wedding photographers.
> ...



Too many reasons for dual slots to list here, but I've been shooting long enough to know that it's not if but when cards fail. The 6d is used by pros for its low light performance, light eight, and for me the wifi - huge asset when shooting on location with the client reviewing images as we go on the tablet, without having to transfer to laptop or having to shoot tethered. .. At least not every 15 minutes. . A dual slot is liability prevention on projects where a loss of images could spell financial losses due to reshoots etc.

I'd like to see this model upgraded to the same level and feature set as Nikon's d750, including the articulating screen.


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## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2015)

Sorry for interrupting the debate, guys. (-_-)/

Quick question from Japan:
Is "Articulating LCD" right way to call the system in U.S. (or any English-speaking countries) ?

In Japan, we call the 70D/Rebel type of screen "Vari-Angle LCD" and EOS M3 type "Tilt LCD".
Is there different name for each kind of flip-or-hinged-or-whatever-you-called LCDs?
Or you just call all of 'em "Articulating LCD" ?

Me and my friends are wondering when we read this 6DII article on CanonRumors.
I will appreciate if you guys give us some answers.


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## Sportsgal501 (Apr 21, 2015)

OmarSV11 said:


> As long as they don't screw ergonomics, Im down with a lighter smaller body. With the battery grip, two LP-E6 and big lens like the Sigma 50mm Art, the thing weighs so much that at some point I cannot withstand it no more, even using a Blackrapid strap.
> 
> I really hope they upgrade the focus points to at least 19 or implement the 70D system on it, recomposing in full frame with that few focus points it's a nightmare.


Did someone say lighter?
That would be a blessing, have no understanding why Canon can't make a lighter camera to save some of us nerve damage...lol.
I definitely would be interested in a 6D II that is lightweight but still rugged/sturdy.


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## e17paul (Apr 21, 2015)

Dekaner said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D2 isn't what you require. What you require is a 5D3 and/or 7D2.
> ...



Or a 5DS, whose crop mode allows it to magically switch between (higher res) 5D3 and 1.6x crop 7D2 mode


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## super_newbie_pro (Apr 21, 2015)

I dont understand the last line... What could be the release date ? Q4 2015 or Q4 2016 ?

I hope the price will not be more expensive that the D750 ! With sony A7 (II) and D750, the A6 II need to be good...


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## scyrene (Apr 21, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> Crosswind said:
> 
> 
> > jarrodeu said:
> ...



I don't know enough about the way you work to make too detailed a comment, but I do wonder... if the work is so critical, why go for the entry-level camera at all? If time is money, I imagine you could build into your margins the cost of a slightly more expensive camera? Just curious.

And of all the things to fail, I wouldn't have thought the card/slot is the most likely. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had a problem with that.


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## Ladislav (Apr 21, 2015)

I love my 6D. What I really don't expect from the next version is to be smaller. The current body is the same size like XXD crop cameras. If Canon changes the size and the battery of 6DII it will most probably take effect on the whole enthusiast segment - next XXD included. Creating a new battery type for just one body does not make sense. What really scares me is decreasing capacity of the battery and getting it closer to batteries used in XXXD cameras. 

What I really expect from the next gen 6D is improvement in auto focus. I don't expect to compete with 5DIII or 7DII but having something like 70D is a must. I only use excellent center point on my 6D. All other points are mostly useless - focusing on them is very slow and often unreliable. Even my previous 650D had 9 cross type focus points, that's 8 more than 6D!


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## Ivan Muller (Apr 21, 2015)

All the 6D needs imo only of course, is an AF joystick plus more cross AF points - ala 70D or something like that (even the 760 now has those) and 24mp will be welcome - if Canon can keep the noise down on the higher iso's.

A touch screen will be pretty cool too...and how about a custom lcd hood to make daylight focusing easier..

Keep the Wifi & GPS...I don't know what I will do without it...so NFC will be a nice too

Centre AF capabilities down to -3 EV is very nice...so why not down to -4??? - just because you can!

Please dont make the battery smaller, lets keep it the same all across the range..ie 5d2/3, S & R

Doesn't really have to be smaller but if they can do it without compromising the ergonomics, well that will be ok.


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## Takingshots (Apr 21, 2015)

Keep it simple lol if CANon can do it ! > 

Just like 5D MKIII , but smaller body, 
Can be adjusted by -5 to +5 EV in increments of 1/3 or 1/2 EV in P, S, A, M, SCENE, night vision modes , Articulating screen.
High iso with strong auto focus performance


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## The Flasher (Apr 21, 2015)

scyrene said:


> The Flasher said:
> 
> 
> > Crosswind said:
> ...



Cards fail. They've gotten much better it they still fail. Sometimes it's a single file that goes corrupt, and as luck would have it it's the shot you wanted. 

I originally bought the 6D as a backup body to my 5d3 and 1ds3, ended up using it as my main camera on most jobs due to the wifi work flow I described. I also use an a7r on certain work, but the wifi in that camera does not offer the same options


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## LonelyBoy (Apr 21, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> Cards fail. They've gotten much better it they still fail. Sometimes it's a single file that goes corrupt, and as luck would have it it's the shot you wanted.
> 
> I originally bought the 6D as a backup body to my 5d3 and 1ds3, ended up using it as my main camera on most jobs due to the wifi work flow I described. I also use an a7r on certain work, but the wifi in that camera does not offer the same options



Canon doesn't want to make the 6D a "pro" camera though. They want you to buy a 5D3/4/S/SR/whatever (or better yet, a 1DX) for that. They're not going to make a $2000 6D that has all the "pro" features so that no one buys the $3500 5D4 (numbers just guesses). No way. Don't get your hopes up that they will.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 21, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry for interrupting the debate, guys. (-_-)/
> 
> Quick question from Japan:
> Is "Articulating LCD" right way to call the system in U.S. (or any English-speaking countries) ?
> ...


I don't think there is a specific distinction being used in the forum here. Articulated means that it has a pivot point (or pivot points). 

The Caterpillar 740B is a completely different example of articulation in a mechanical design. The 740B is an articulated dump truck, this means there is a pivot point in the middle of the truck. (see below)


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## Mr_Canuck (Apr 21, 2015)

That's one cool dump truck. But that hydraulic has to get in the way.


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## Mr_Canuck (Apr 21, 2015)

The 6DII needs improved AF (which should be like falling off a log; not hard to improve upon). They should make it as small as possible; take everything they learned from the SL1 and apply it to full-frame. A good grip will still hold the same battery. It'll probably have "improved video shooting" and something else superfluous like increased resolution to show that it's a worthy upgrade. But what else do they need to change really? Oh yeah, a built in flash? Even for use as a trigger? That would be notable.


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## K (Apr 21, 2015)

scyrene said:


> I don't know enough about the way you work to make too detailed a comment, but I do wonder... if the work is so critical, why go for the entry-level camera at all? If time is money, I imagine you could build into your margins the cost of a slightly more expensive camera? Just curious.



The issue is not with us, the consumer, for not upgrading to the 5D. It's with Canon, who holds back on inexpensive, simple features that can make a huge difference.

What you're saying is what Canon wants everyone to do so Canon can make more money, and what has been my point all along. Why be made to spend nearly $1,800 more for this simple feature? The competition from Nikon has no problem at all offering the D610 with 2 slots at a reasonable price of $1,500. Their D7100/D7200 has this feature at it is around $1K. The 7D Mark II does. Why did they leave it off the 6D? To cripple it. Nothing more.

As to the sub discussion here on card reliability - I've had good luck with memory cards over all, over the years. This past year though, I did have a San Disk CF card go bad and only 1/2 of the photos were recovered using their tool. This was a top end SanDisk card too. Never had an issue before, or since. 

Dual card slots is a must for anyone with a need to preserve the photos. Prior to this failure, I have always been aware of the need. Look, it is one thing to be stuck with 1 card slot due to the lack of technological innovation. At one time, cameras only had 1 slot. Well, these days - cameras can and do have 2 slots. This should be a standard feature for ANY DSLR over $1,000. It is unacceptable in my opinion for a manufacturer to hold out on that at any price point $1,000 and over.

As to need. I think even enthusiasts not being paid have a need. Time is money and time is life too. You can't get back the experiences when traveling. Or losing photos while traveling costs just as much, if not more, than the work done for a client. Lost your photos from a European vacation or trip to Asia? How much does that cost? 

Worse, losing shots of your children at key times. Taking photos of your baby on their birth day. Sorry, there's no re-shoots.

You get the idea.


The 6D should have had dual SD slots. The 70D should have had dual SD slots. 70D wasn't cheap when it came out. It was several hundred dollars more than the Nikon equivalent that had a dual slot. Now, the 70D is a bit of a different animal with video features and all that. But to me, that's all the more reason to have another card slot.

$1,000 and over should have 2 slots, if not - Canon is being el-cheapo OR intentionally crippling cameras.


I hope Canon stops this behavior and offers the 6D2 with two slots.


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## The Flasher (Apr 21, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> The Flasher said:
> 
> 
> > Cards fail. They've gotten much better it they still fail. Sometimes it's a single file that goes corrupt, and as luck would have it it's the shot you wanted.
> ...



With Canon I never get my hopes up. You got the part spot on "Canon wants you to buy..." where by Canon wants and not the customer wants. 

But I digress. Take a look at the Nikon d750. This is a company that listens to the customer and make cameras with features that the customer wants at a competitive price point. Maybe this is an opportunity for canon to split the 6d into two models as well, one with more features than the other. They're so good at restricting features to protect other model lines anyways. So you could have a 6d2 mounted on a stand, realize that you're going to need more focus points in order to really get the shot perfect, and you reach into your bag where you're carrying 5 other bodies and pull out a 6dX for the slightly better feature set. See where I'm going with this.


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## The Flasher (Apr 21, 2015)

K said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know enough about the way you work to make too detailed a comment, but I do wonder... if the work is so critical, why go for the entry-level camera at all? If time is money, I imagine you could build into your margins the cost of a slightly more expensive camera? Just curious.
> ...



+1


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## ahsanford (Apr 21, 2015)

As much as people want an AF upgrade and (apparently) dual card slots, the 6D2's most glaring need is a pop up flash. Because nothing says "entry level" like _some accessories required_.  

Selling a 6D without a flash is like selling a lowest trimline version of a car without any brakes. 

- A


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## K (Apr 21, 2015)

Crosswind said:


> jarrodeu said:
> 
> 
> > Why this obsession with dual card slots on the 6D Mk II in order to make it "pro". Didn't the 5D Mk II only have a single slot? Seems like it was used successfully by a few pros including a handful of wedding photographers.
> ...



Yes. Me. With a Sandisk card.

It is very rare I admit. But with memory cards, it is only a matter of time.


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## zlatko (Apr 21, 2015)

K said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know enough about the way you work to make too detailed a comment, but I do wonder... if the work is so critical, why go for the entry-level camera at all? If time is money, I imagine you could build into your margins the cost of a slightly more expensive camera? Just curious.
> ...



Canon makes a number cameras with dual card slots. You just don't want to buy them. So you've made an arbitrary rule that cameras over $1,000 "should" have dual card slots. Canon fails to meet the rule you made, so they are "being el-cheapo". Well, there are plenty of cameras over $1,000 that don't have dual card slots, so it seems that the camera world is not aware of and not following your rule. 

About "crippling" cameras. People who want features but don't want to pay for them always complain about "crippling", as if camera companies owe them something, or should give them something for free. But that's not how business works. That's not how photographers work either. We charge more for additional services, larger prints, higher resolution, etc.

Why doesn't the Nikon D610 offer autofocus down to -3EV? Why doesn't it have interchangeable focusing screens? The 6D has these simple features for around $1,149. Why does Nikon make you pay more to get these simple features? Why did they leave them off the D610? "To cripple it. Nothing more."

... Actually, I don't believe that. I'm just mirroring your words, but choosing to highlight Nikon's omissions to show that this works both ways. But if you feel strongly about this "crippling" business, you should absolutely *right now* be shooting Nikon. I don't understand why you bought Canon in the first place if you perceive them as being so "el-cheapo" and so badly motivated to make more money.


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## zlatko (Apr 21, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> As much as people want an AF upgrade and (apparently) dual card slots, the 6D2's most glaring need is a pop up flash. Because nothing says "entry level" like _some accessories required_.
> 
> Selling a 6D without a flash is like selling a lowest trimline version of a car without any brakes.
> 
> - A



Glaring need? Canon makes other cameras with pop up flash. Not every camera needs pop up flash.


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## ahsanford (Apr 21, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> Take a look at the Nikon d750. This is a company that listens to the customer and make cameras with features that the customer wants at a competitive price point. Maybe this is an opportunity for canon to split the 6d into two models as well, one with more features than the other.



Exactly my point. The D750 is not necessarily a great camera for your needs, but consider two photographers today:

Person 1 owns a D600 or D610 and 4-5 Nikon lenses

Person 2 owns a 6D and 4-5 Canon lenses.

Both have grown as photographers and now feel a little constrained by what their respective cameras can do. They have both committed to upgrading their camera body in the next 12-24 months.

Person 1 has the choice of:

Waiting for a like for like update like a future D620, which would be a (roughly) modest 10% spec update for about $1400. Unless there is a killer new feature added, most photographers would not take that upgrade on a 2-3 year old camera.
Spending $2000 for a D750, with a similar sensor but a massive upgrade to the AF system, slightly higher burst rate and (if you're into that) an articulating LCD screen.
Spending $3000 for a D810, which mops the floor with the D610.

Person 2 has the choice of:

Like waiting for the D620, the Canon person can wait for the 6D2 and hope that Canon goes upmarket with it and makes it more pro. Probably won't happen. Probably will see a modest spec bump and come in around $1500-1700.
Pay $2500 for an aging 5D3, which is (really loosely) a 6D1 with a killer AF system and solid video features. But its sensor is aging and is roughly on par with what they have with their 6D1 now.
Ponying up north of $3000 for the various new 5DS / 5D4 / 5Dc models that are coming.

Yes, you could argue the 5D3 drops into 'D750 competitor' territory now that it's price is dropping, but I contend very few people will buy a cut-rate 5D3 in years 4-6 of its lifecycle when there are newer options out there.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 21, 2015)

zlatko said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > As much as people want an AF upgrade and (apparently) dual card slots, the 6D2's most glaring need is a pop up flash. Because nothing says "entry level" like _some accessories required_.
> ...



I think it's a glaring need as this is not a pro rig for photographers who already own speedlites or demand weathersealing up top. This is a budget FF rig and dollars drive the sale. So someone stepping up from (say) a Rebel or 70D is not just paying X for the camera, they are paying X + Y for the camera plus flash. In many cases, those upgraders are already taking it in the face by needing to pitch their EF-S glass and buy a standard EF zoom as well.

Again, look at Nikon. I don't love their products, but I do (in some cases) believe they have a stronger value proposition -- they've decided pop-up flashes are better than nothing and have thrown them into the design. Canon -- in this budget FF market segment -- tell its comparable customers to pony up for a dedicated flash unit instead.

Don't get me wrong, Nikon is not perfect with optional wi-fi doodads and such, but in some cases, I've feel they've made the right call for the market.

- A


----------



## scyrene (Apr 21, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > The Flasher said:
> ...



Ah, wifi. That's something I hadn't thought of.


----------



## scyrene (Apr 21, 2015)

K said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know enough about the way you work to make too detailed a comment, but I do wonder... if the work is so critical, why go for the entry-level camera at all? If time is money, I imagine you could build into your margins the cost of a slightly more expensive camera? Just curious.
> ...



I dunno. Your points are valid, *but* if card failure was something I feared, I'd do what I could to mitigate it. I imagine dual slots are fairly cheap to implement, so that's fair enough. Maybe I'm just more laid back about it though - if I miss a shot, that's a shame but not too bad. There is no situation that would upset me massively, but everybody is different. (Ten or twenty years later, does it matter if that photo of your baby was taken in day 1 or day 2?).

Funnily enough, I use a camera with dual slots but have never used the option where the files are written to both. A one slot camera wouldn't bother me. But as you say, if it's cheap to implement and the competition does it, it's reasonable to ask for.


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## Takingshots (Apr 21, 2015)

Canon 5DS is selling for $3699. 
I think (my guessimate) the new 5DIV will be around $2999 and 6D MKii will be around $2,199. 
And they might just add (the low pass filter cancellation) 5D IV R and charge $3199...


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## LonelyBoy (Apr 21, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> With Canon I never get my hopes up. You got the part spot on "Canon wants you to buy..." where by Canon wants and not the customer wants.
> 
> But I digress. Take a look at the Nikon d750. This is a company that listens to the customer and make cameras with features that the customer wants at a competitive price point. Maybe this is an opportunity for canon to split the 6d into two models as well, one with more features than the other. They're so good at restricting features to protect other model lines anyways. So you could have a 6d2 mounted on a stand, realize that you're going to need more focus points in order to really get the shot perfect, and you reach into your bag where you're carrying 5 other bodies and pull out a 6dX for the slightly better feature set. See where I'm going with this.



Meh. This is how market leaders behave. It's the same with Intel. They deliberately remove certain features from their cheaper CPUs to force certain users (people who do heavy VM work, for example) up to the next level. By the time you add up the features that everyone wants added to the 6D... it's the 5D3, only cheaper. Why would Canon do that? No really, why would they? Nikon is more aggressive because they're more desperate. Just like AMD.


----------



## Sporgon (Apr 21, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I think Canon's attitude here is if you are bothering to stump up the extra cash for FF what on earth do you want to bother with pop up flash for. And I agree with them.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 21, 2015)

Takingshots said:


> Canon 5DS is selling for $3699.
> I think (my guessimate) the new 5DIV will be around $2999 and 6D MKii will be around $2,199.
> And they might just add (the low pass filter cancellation) 5D IV R and charge $3199...



http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/04039/Canon-EOS-6D-price.html

See the price track at the very bottom. You will not find another FF rig whose price has dropped so precipitously. The 6D was overpriced for what it was offering. The same thing happened with the 24/28/35 IS refresh lenses -- they were fine tools but were considerably overpriced, and they quickly settled in on the price they probably should have been out of the gate.

The D610 -- by no means a clone of the 6D but certainly another reasonable option for folks making the big FF move -- has settled into $1300-1500 asking price. I think that's where Canon needs to be with the 6D, not just to match Nikon so also to rightsize the price _to draw people into FF_. Once Canon has them in the EF-only ecosystem, those users will all but certainly pick up a nice EF lens or speedlite at some point and they'll make their money back.

The only way Canon goes north of $2k with the 6D2 is if the camera goes up-market and is considerably upgraded, like +4 MP, +2 fps, +1 stop of low light, a comprehensive AF upgrade occurs, etc. I'm not convinced Canon will do that. In _this_ segment, it's more of a 'plunge' sort of big purchase than it is a typical body upgrade. Lenses often need to be sold/bought at this stage, so _this is a place where folks can reasonably leave the Canon fold to join Nikon or vice versa_. 

So Canon can't be sitting at an arbitrarily higher price point or expect users to have to buy a EF pricey lens or speedlite pickup, or the sum total of moving to FF inside of Canon's ecosystem will quickly add up to a value far higher than Nikon's. I haven't run the math on FF upgrade costs (all things considered), but it would be interesting to see.

- A


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## Frage (Apr 21, 2015)

Does touch-screen counts as a radical change?


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 21, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > zlatko said:
> ...


+1, I was about to say this. The reason people would opt for the 6D is the improved IQ over APS-C options. The results one gets with Bounce-Flash or a Wireless radio-triggered system would likely appeal more to those people than what you can get with a pop-up flash.


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## ahsanford (Apr 21, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > I think Canon's attitude here is if you are bothering to stump up the extra cash for FF what on earth do you want to bother with pop up flash for. And I agree with them.
> ...



I'm not advocating a pop-up flash is a _good _option, but not all 'good-IQ-chasing photogs' have your (perfectly reasonable) flash expectations. For instance, I overwhelmingly shoot with available light, and I was 3-4 lenses into my set of gear before I ever bought a speedlite.

FF DSLR shooters are no longer a certainty to be professionals that have a cabinet full of tools. The 6D or D610 is conceivably a person or family's first or (more likely) second camera purchase. Those folks may not necessarily have a speedlite, so to them, a pop-up flash might be a necessary evil, especially when their entire photography budget for the year will be consumed in moving to the 6D/D610 and (likely) buying an appropriate standard zoom for that new mount.

If, however, the majority of 6D/D610 buyers are veteran enthusiasts on their 5th or 6th body after a decade or two of photography work, not offering a pop-up flash is far less of an issue as they probably own a speedlite already. 

It all depends on who is thinking about buying such camera, I guess.

- A


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## Frodo (Apr 21, 2015)

A lot of discussion in this thread about the need for two card slots because of the risk of card failure. I've been shooting on CF cards since the 300D and on SD cards since the A75 and have (touch wood) never had a failure. At the moment all of my CF cards are Transcend, so not problems there.
On the other hand I have often had failures with USB memory sticks (thumb drives).

In my view, the biggest risk of losing all shots in a shooting is from losing a card taken out of the camera, so would be more inclined to use one big card.
Some have talked about losing individual shots through corruption. That doesn't worry me as I more often "lose" shots because the focus is not critically sharp, which is one of the reasons I'm considering a 6D or 5DIII right now.

Can someone set up a poll on card failure, including the brands used that were okay and failed, and when and why they failed (e.g. physical damage).

Thanks


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## ahsanford (Apr 21, 2015)

Frodo said:


> In my view, the biggest risk of losing all shots in a shooting is from losing a card taken out of the camera, so would be more inclined to use one big card.



I thought the same and have been happy with my 128 GB SD card on my 5D3 (I use SD on my 5D3 for Apple on-board reader convenience and I don't do buffer intensive work that would benefit from CF use). 

However, the read time on 'accessing what is new' on one big card is a heavy lift for my comp each time I plug the card in. 

- A


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## zlatko (Apr 21, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



For me the 6D is pro rig and I already own speed lights. So I don't fit your description of the 6D buyer. There is no one type of 6D buyer. Presumably Canon knows a thing or two about their intended buyer.


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## [email protected] (Apr 22, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for interrupting the debate, guys. (-_-)/
> ...




Thanks, StudentOfLight.
m(_ _)m <- In Japan, we use this symbol for gesture of bow, for gratitude or apology.

Maybe we think too much of what-should-we-call-this-and-that stuff.
But what can I say, we're Japanese, lol.

Thanks again for taking time to reply and paste a very interesting example image.
I wanna take some photos of this cool dump truck, for real.


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## JohanCruyff (Apr 22, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> Take a look at the Nikon d750. This is a company that listens to the customer and make cameras with features that the customer wants at a competitive price point. Maybe this is an opportunity for canon to split the 6d into two models as well, one with more features than the other.


No doubt the D750 is a very good camera, but I took a look at a couple of Nikon Users' forums when this model was announced, and many forumers considered it a "D620", meaning that they were disappointed by the (in their opinion) minor upgrades with respect to the D610. 
They expected a real successor for their beloved D700.


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## bholliman (Apr 22, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > I think Canon's attitude here is if you are bothering to stump up the extra cash for FF what on earth do you want to bother with pop up flash for. And I agree with them.
> ...



I agree with Sporgon and Student of Light. A 6D2 or 3 is very likely purchased as a 2nd or 3rd + body by a hobbyist/enthusiast. Very unlikely these photographers will want anything to do with pop-up flash. I know I didn't when I purchased my 6D two and a half years ago.


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## ahsanford (Apr 22, 2015)

JohanCruyff said:


> The Flasher said:
> 
> 
> > Take a look at the Nikon d750. This is a company that listens to the customer and make cameras with features that the customer wants at a competitive price point. Maybe this is an opportunity for canon to split the 6d into two models as well, one with more features than the other.
> ...



Yep. They wanted a best-on-planet sensor at lower than 36 MP_ but with all the bells and whistles features-wise of the D810_. That never was going to happen with the good/better/best market Nikon envisions. 

But I would argue that Nikon putting their best AF system into a camera with the D610 sensor is a really shrewd move that invents a 'middle' FF market position. _That single feature_ is worth paying more for -- when I was deciding between a 5D3 and 5D2 (before the 6D came out), the 5D3 having the 1DX's AF system 100% justified buying a 5D3 over a cut-price 5D2.

- A


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## tomri (Apr 23, 2015)

I guess Canon will do what they always do; give people some features which they have been holding back, such as articulated screen. At the same time, they will make the handling feel cheaper and more flimsy. With the long awaited features they will pull in new customers. With the cheaper feel they make sure those customers will want to upgrade later.

Look at the 6d today, how bad these flush and flimsy buttons are at the back. Have you compared the feel of the thumb wheel with that of a, say 40d? Do it! It is an eye opener.


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## Crosswind (Apr 24, 2015)

tomri said:


> Look at the 6d today, how bad these flush and flimsy buttons are at the back. Have you compared the feel of the thumb wheel with that of a, say 40d? Do it! It is an eye opener.



I have a canon eos 6d and also had a 40d and 600d several years ago. I cannot complain about anything except that I'm missing that articulating screen from my 600d on my 6d sometimes. All of these cameras are well-made. I've never had problems with buttons or the thumb wheel of my 6d. 



JohanCruyff said:


> The Flasher said:
> 
> 
> > Take a look
> ...


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## zlatko (Apr 25, 2015)

tomri said:


> I guess Canon will do what they always do; give people some features which they have been holding back, such as articulated screen. At the same time, they will make the handling feel cheaper and more flimsy. With the long awaited features they will pull in new customers. With the cheaper feel they make sure those customers will want to upgrade later.
> 
> Look at the 6d today, how bad these flush and flimsy buttons are at the back. Have you compared the feel of the thumb wheel with that of a, say 40d? Do it! It is an eye opener.



That expresses the perfectly cynical view. Essentially you believe that Canon *always* does things wrong. So why do you buy Canon? Or read a Canon rumors forum? 

The buttons on the 6D feel great and work great, so I have no idea what you're talking about. And I did own and heavily use the 40D (had two of them, first one was $1,300) and the 30D, 20D, 10D, 60D, 5D, 5D2, 5D3 (still use it), 1D, 1DS, 1D2, 1D2N and 1D3. I really have no complaints about the 6D buttons, especially at it's low current price.


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