# EOS 6D Mark II To Shrink & Move Upmarket [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 1, 2015)

```
We’re told the EOS 6D Mark II, which isn’t expected until early 2016 at the earliest, will move upmarket “slightly” in features and pricing.</p>
<p>We’re told again that a big goal with the camera is a smaller size and lighter weight, without sacrificing build quality. The camera will have its own full frame sensor, just like the current camera, along with the addition of NFC. Canon is also working on a “new connectivity feature” that may appear first in the EOS 6D Mark II, but it still in its infancy.</p>
<p>There “won’t be anything groundbreaking” in the EOS 6D Mark II, but the goal is to make it a good evolutionary upgrade. Expect bigger things from the EOS 5D Mark IV and EOS-1D X Mark II.</p>
<p>It’s far too early to expect any sort of specifications leak, as we’re nowhere near that being finalized.</p>
```


----------



## 7enderbender (Jun 1, 2015)

And how does "smaller and lighter" correlate with "upmarket"?


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 1, 2015)

7enderbender said:


> And how does "smaller and lighter" correlate with "upmarket"?



Smaller and lighter _without losing build quality....._

Whether Canon likes it or not, the EOS 6D line will be competing against cameras such as the A7 series. Size and weight have started to matter...

I expect the EOS-1D X Mark II to shed some weight.


----------



## Bernard (Jun 1, 2015)

My wife would love this. She finds the current 6D just a little too big, she prefers the Rebel T5/T6 form factor. It will probably be a killer lightweight combo with the 24-70 f:4.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jun 1, 2015)

The smaller & lighter whilst retaining MOST of the atributes of the current camera would seal the deal for me the 6D is a great landscape / travel camera. The one thing I want Canon to address is the low level pattern / banding noise of the present sensor which shows up if you have fog or grey skies in your shots its almost impossible to remove in LR. 
Secondly they should address the GPS remaining on when you turn the camera off if its enabled as this drains the battery rapidly.


----------



## degos (Jun 1, 2015)

Yet another Canon item moving up the ladder in pricing. Really fed-up with this constant escalation. So much for being the 'affordable' full-frame option.

My upcoming full-frame choice will be between a second-hand 6D1 or the Sony A7. I think Canon loses either way.

I wonder what stratospheric price they have in mind for the 5D4.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jun 1, 2015)

degos said:


> Yet another Canon item moving up the ladder in pricing. Really fed-up with this constant escalation. So much for being the 'affordable' full-frame option.
> 
> My upcoming full-frame choice will be between a second-hand 6D1 or the Sony A7. I think Canon loses either way.
> 
> I wonder what stratospheric price they have in mind for the 5D4.


The operative word though was "slightly" so I dont think it will move up to the current 5D MKIII pricing and it may spawn a new entry level full-frame camera.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jun 1, 2015)

Would not be surprised to see Canon competitively align the 6DMKII against the Nikon D750, keep the current 6D to compete against the Nikon D610 until a new camera comes out. From a pricing point of view that would make sense with the 5DMK4 competing against the Nikon D810 as the cureent 5DMKIII does.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 1, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Would not be surprised to see Canon competitively align the 6DMKII against the Nikon D750, keep the current 6D to compete against the Nikon D610 until a new camera comes out. From a pricing point of view that would make sense with the 5DMK4 competing against the Nikon D810 as the cureent 5DMKIII does.



And subsequently keep winning.


----------



## Sith Zombie (Jun 1, 2015)

Not sure I like the price increase part, but if they add dpaf and a swivel screen then I'm in!


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 1, 2015)

I think the size of the current 6D is fine. If they make it a little smaller, sure great. But with any real glass mounted the body size becomes less and less of a factor. Right now a 6D with say a 16-35 f/4 or 24-70 f/4 has good balance. And with a small prime like the 35 f/2 IS it is a joy to bring along anywhere.

After playing around with my Tamron 150-600 this weekend on both the 70D and the 6D, I can reiterate my number one improvement would be the focus system. Give me more points, covering more of the frame, and all cross type.

A distant 2nd to the focus system, the 1/4000th shutter limit. More so now then ever, with mirrorless cameras having electronic shutters going to 1/32000, you at least need the 1/8000.


----------



## lholmes549 (Jun 1, 2015)

I don't see the 6D as being "too big" for a start, but I will always welcome reductions in size and weight if the build quality is not compromised and ergonomics are still good. My hands prefer a bigger body, but when I'm carrying it on my back I'd rather have an A7r than a full frame Canon body. 

I can't see the 6D II being something I'll buy though as the 6D is more than good enough for my needs. I really love the fact that Canon made a cheaper way into full frame, allowing me to get great IQ without all the bells and whistles you pay for with the 5D III.


----------



## lw (Jun 1, 2015)

Perhaps "smaller & lighter" is a result of using this http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/06/patent-canon-improved-mirror-af-at-high-fps/


----------



## Sith Zombie (Jun 1, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> I think the size of the current 6D is fine. If they make it a little smaller, sure great. But with any real glass mounted the body size becomes less and less of a factor. Right now a 6D with say a 16-35 f/4 or 24-70 f/4 has good balance. And with a small prime like the 35 f/2 IS it is a joy to bring along anywhere.
> 
> After playing around with my Tamron 150-600 this weekend on both the 70D and the 6D, I can reiterate my number one improvement would be the focus system. Give me more points, covering more of the frame, and all cross type.
> 
> A distant 2nd to the focus system, the 1/4000th shutter limit. More so now then ever, with mirrorless cameras having electronic shutters going to 1/32000, you at least need the 1/8000.



I think maybe they'll whack the 19 point system in the 6dmkii as it's now become canon's lowest spec af. Whether or not they'll all be cross type is the question.....


----------



## Sith Zombie (Jun 1, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> The smaller & lighter whilst retaining MOST of the atributes of the current camera would seal the deal for me the 6D is a great landscape / travel camera. The one thing I want Canon to address is the low level pattern / banding noise of the present sensor which shows up if you have fog or grey skies in your shots its almost impossible to remove in LR.
> Secondly they should address the GPS remaining on when you turn the camera off if its enabled as this drains the battery rapidly.


With regards to the sensor, I think the key will be seeing what the 5dmkiv offers. If its touting better performance, I think it's fair to say we'll see those increases in the 6dmkii sensor too.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 1, 2015)

I think the 6D needs one major improvement: a better AF system. It'll be interesting to see how this camera can get better features AND become smaller AND still be priced below the 5DIII. Is this possible?

Also, what benefit is NFC vs wi-fi in a camera?


----------



## TeT (Jun 1, 2015)

Bernard said:


> My wife would love this. She finds the current 6D just a little too big, she prefers the Rebel T5/T6 form factor. It will probably be a killer lightweight combo with the 24-70 f:4.



+1


----------



## TeT (Jun 1, 2015)

degos said:


> Yet another Canon item moving up the ladder in pricing. Really fed-up with this constant escalation. So much for being the 'affordable' full-frame option.
> 
> My upcoming full-frame choice will be between a second-hand 6D1 or the Sony A7. I think Canon loses either way.
> 
> I wonder what stratospheric price they have in mind for the 5D4.



not just canon... What do you think the pricing on the next A7 variation will be, how about the Nikon D900 (or whatever it will be)

How much was the 6D on day one? 

The 5D4 will be comparable to what the 5D3 + inflation was when it came out...


----------



## SilverSnake (Jun 1, 2015)

degos said:


> Yet another Canon item moving up the ladder in pricing. Really fed-up with this constant escalation



This is hardly a phenomenon unique to the camera industry. It's quite common to have quality, amount of features and thus also price slowly climb upwards with new cheaper alternatives being introduced below that. Same thing happens with cars. Over the years even "cheap" and "low budget" type brands becomes better equipped and higher quality, as their customers expect improvement from year to year, and then all new brands are introduced at the bottom of the ladder. And repeat.

Personally I'd like for the 6D2 to climb a fair bit, because I'd love a 5D-level camera with GPS and I'm feeling that the 5D4 may not get a GPS, but unless the 6D2 jumps a fair bit I'm not sure that is going to fit my needs in other areas.


----------



## super_newbie_pro (Jun 1, 2015)

WTF... The Sony products will become much more interesting ... And the Nikon D750 is already less than 2000 € ... I would not buy 6D MK II if the price exceeds € 2000 . I wait until March for my purchase, if you have the info that goes in this direction , I would be either at sony with A7(x) or nikon.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 1, 2015)

super_newbie_pro said:


> WTF... The Sony products will become much more interesting ... And the Nikon D750 is already less than 2000 € ... I would not buy 6D MK II if the price exceeds € 2000 . I wait until March for my purchase, if you have the info that goes in this direction , I would be either at sony with A7(x) or nikon.



The D750 will be substantially older at that point, for better or worse. Old products are almost always cheaper than new.


----------



## lw (Jun 1, 2015)

SilverSnake said:


> degos said:
> 
> 
> > Yet another Canon item moving up the ladder in pricing. Really fed-up with this constant escalation
> ...



Partly true. But there are also plenty of tech areas where prices do actually fall year on year even though new models have improved functionality. Look at TVs or computers.

If camera prices keep rising, it is perhaps more indicative of lack of competition and lack of volume, than just something to do with new features.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 1, 2015)

7enderbender said:


> And how does "smaller and lighter" correlate with "upmarket"?



Lots of things get smaller as they get better. Used to be phones, before we started doing more with the screen than looking through our address books. Sports cars. Laptops (for some people)

I don't think the 6D _needs_ to shrink, but if they could cram the 6D sensor + 19pt AF system into a body the size of an SL1, I'd be thrilled. I do agree that the T6s form factor is more realistic, but there are definitely people who would appreciate that.


----------



## mrzero (Jun 1, 2015)

I just hope they don't DROP any features in order to shave a few millimeters and grams off. Please keep the wifi and the GPS, add a few more AF points, and I'll be happy. NFC, swivel screen, and whatever else will all be nice. But don't give with one hand and take away with the other.


----------



## PureClassA (Jun 1, 2015)

What did the 6D originally start at? Was it $1899? So $1999? $2099? We're in the same ballpark. I think anything 10%-ish would fall under "slight"

I think if they do that and give us a 19-24 pt cross type AF (everything else now has at least the 61pt, so come on guys), 5FPS, and perhaps we see that new 24MP sensor show up in a FF body (if not in the 5D4), we'd have a really nice $2k machine.

6D is already a a perfect size. Not really crazy about it being smaller, but I understand that's where the market is going.


----------



## pedro (Jun 1, 2015)

degos said:


> I wonder what stratospheric price they have in mind for the *5D4*.


*5D4=5400? ;-)*


----------



## Takingshots (Jun 1, 2015)

Not a rocket scientist. If Canon want to gain some market share versus Sony is Canon has to increase the focus point system, 24 mpx along with the reduce weight. Bonus also is to add a swivel screen. Good enough for anyone who wants try out for a FF camera. Remember demographically going for the aging population who travels more and need less equipment to haul on their trip and at the same time these days airline industry is not so kind for people to have large carry on bags. You got to pay...


----------



## MintChocs (Jun 1, 2015)

Definitely an increase in AF points though maybe not cross type all over, very modest increase in megapixels with marginal improvements in image quality, fps will remain more or less the same. They could make the body smaller and a battery grip for those who want it larger! I have a feeling that any major sensor improvents will be for the 1DX and 5Dmkiii replacements.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 1, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> What did the 6D originally start at? Was it $1899? So $1999? $2099? We're in the same ballpark. I think anything 10%-ish would fall under "slight"



I found the 6d1 very overpriced for what it is, so moving it "upmarket" should come with a significant boost in features or build quality to justify it vs. the growing competition.



PureClassA said:


> 6D is already a a perfect size. Not really crazy about it being smaller, but I understand that's where the market is going.



"Perfect" for what? Probably for smaller hands, but it still is slightly too small already for 24/7 pro shooting which makes the 5d-size more appealing. And for travel purposes and occasional shooting, smaller simply is better esp. if you're taking few and small lenses.

Last not least, making it smaller will give Canon more "natural" marketing distance to the 5d line...


----------



## dak723 (Jun 1, 2015)

I would be interested in this camera even if everything remained the same except for the size and weight. Image quality is already excellent and since I am a center point only shooter, that works for me, too. But having briefly owned the Sony A7 II, I really wished the 6D was smaller and lighter. (That was the only thing about the Sony that was better). If I need to carry a camera at all, I use my SL1. Would love a 6D that I can carry all day!


----------



## e17paul (Jun 1, 2015)

bereninga said:


> I think the 6D needs one major improvement: a better AF system. It'll be interesting to see how this camera can get better features AND become smaller AND still be priced below the 5DIII. Is this possible?
> 
> Also, what benefit is NFC vs wi-fi in a camera?



I'm hoping that Canon can apply the same detail thinking to the 6D2 as they did to the 100D/SL1. The difference between the 100D and 700D/750D models gives a clue to the margin of weight efficiency that can be achieved.

The 6D may be a little lighter than the 5D series, but it is a tank compared to my full metal bodied full frame film camera. However, I dont want to see the grip or viewfinder compromised in the quest for compactness and lightness.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jun 1, 2015)

As well as my Canon system I have the Olympus OM-D E-M10 with three different lenses. These fit into a very small Lowepro slingshot with room to spare ideal for holidays where photography is not going to be the prime time consumer. If the 6D reduces in size then I dont think it should be too much it will alter the balance as the lenses by and large are not designed for smaller cameras. 
As a landscape / travel camera the current 6D is almost the right combination with minor irritations (low level banding, GPS not turning off when camera turns off, 11 AF points). I would improve the wi-fi setup this could be simply via NFC but overall the camera is already a v.good tool and if it aint broke dont fix it.


----------



## NancyP (Jun 1, 2015)

I stick an L bracket on each camera, so dainty cameras get not so small and not so light. But, I like the ease and balance of an L bracket when using a tripod, so even the Sigma Merrill mirrorless gets kitted.
I'd like better weatherproofing in the next 6D.


----------



## David (Jun 1, 2015)

The 6D together with a 40mm Ultron and a 28mm Color Skopar is my best all round combo. It does not get smaller, faster, more practical with superb IQ today - I tried the OM-D' and A7' and these do not come close. 

I wish to get three -3EV cross type AF points horizontal, a better mirror mechanism that is quick AND silent, if the camera gets smaller the better. Please keep the high ISO capability. This camera is so versatile and simple, I wish Canon won't change that approach.


----------



## lilmsmaggie (Jun 1, 2015)

It's an alternative to Wi-Fi. NFC allows short-range communication between two NFC devices, e.g. your camera and a smartphone. Samsung and SONY use NFC technology and some android devices as well. NFC would establish the connectivity between the devices when touched or within 4 cm's of each other, while Wi-Fi would transmit the data once the connection to the other device is established.




bereninga said:


> I think the 6D needs one major improvement: a better AF system. It'll be interesting to see how this camera can get better features AND become smaller AND still be priced below the 5DIII. Is this possible?
> 
> Also, what benefit is NFC vs wi-fi in a camera?


----------



## lux (Jun 1, 2015)

How about a couple stops better in low light. I'm always trying to take pictures of the kids playing sports at night or photos in church. In either case a couple stops low noise low light would make a big difference


----------



## denomite (Jun 1, 2015)

7Dmii + full frame sensor = 6Dmii.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 1, 2015)

denomite said:


> 7Dmii + full frame sensor = 6Dmii.



Or the 5Ds/r


----------



## RobertP (Jun 1, 2015)

lw said:


> Partly true. But there are also plenty of tech areas where prices do actually fall year on year even though new models have improved functionality. Look at TVs or computers.
> 
> If camera prices keep rising, it is perhaps more indicative of lack of competition and lack of volume, than just something to do with new features.


The SL1 has most of the functionality of my 50D for a fraction of the price. The SL1 is lacking in AFMA and toughness but it does have a better sensor.


----------



## Bernard (Jun 1, 2015)

lilmsmaggie said:


> It's an alternative to Wi-Fi. NFC allows short-range communication between two NFC devices, e.g. your camera and a smartphone. Samsung and SONY use NFC technology and some android devices as well. NFC would establish the connectivity between the devices when touched or within 4 cm's of each other, while Wi-Fi would transmit the data once the connection to the other device is established.



Also, most devices can't connect to multiple WiFi networks at the same time, so you need to disconnect your tablet from your local WiFi, connect to your camera, transfer pictures (or whatever) and then reconnect the tablet to WiFi if you want to post or email them. It's a pain to do, and an even bigger pain to explain to someone who isn't tech-savvy. NFC is more intuitive: you connect by bringing your tablet and camera close together, and you don't lose your tablet's regular internet connection, so you can post stuff in one step.


----------



## Takingshots (Jun 1, 2015)

Canon get going with the production of the 6D MK II. Patience is running out as Sony is coming fast and furious with their newer a7r mk ii and a7rs mk ii releases. Any attention to lighter, smaller, faster and better AF will get my attention...


----------



## captainkanji (Jun 1, 2015)

The 6D has been good to me these last 2 1/2 years, but I think I will be moving up to the 5D series (once I've saved enough). A 5DS would be interesting, but I need a low light beast. Can't wait to see the 5DIV.


----------



## pedro (Jun 1, 2015)

Looking forward to what the 6Dii will offer in order to interpolate these specs up to a 5DIV. As this body will get the thunder of newness according to CRguy, surely some rumored specs will circulate by then, if a 2016 Q3 release is imminent...


----------



## zlatko (Jun 1, 2015)

degos said:


> Yet another Canon item moving up the ladder in pricing. Really fed-up with this constant escalation. So much for being the 'affordable' full-frame option.
> 
> My upcoming full-frame choice will be between a second-hand 6D1 or the Sony A7. I think Canon loses either way.
> 
> I wonder what stratospheric price they have in mind for the 5D4.



Sorry you feel that way. I bought the original 5D for $3,300 in 2005, and the 5D2 for $2,800 in 2009. The 6D is better than either of those, and I bought it for $1,450 in 2014. The 6D was $1,900 in 2013. It's now down to $1,250 at some sellers. I'm happy with the improved quality combined with the lower prices.


----------



## zlatko (Jun 1, 2015)

I'd be very happy to see the 6D shrink as long as it retains or improves its overall level of quality. 

There is an interview online with a Canon designer who hints that future full frame cameras will be smaller —
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/developing_the_eos_1_series_design.do
He says, "I believe that the optimum size among Canon cameras is the AL-1.” And the AL-1 was quite small!


----------



## TeT (Jun 1, 2015)

super_newbie_pro said:


> WTF... The Sony products will become much more interesting ... And the Nikon D750 is already less than 2000 € ... I would not buy 6D MK II if the price exceeds € 2000 . I wait until March for my purchase, if you have the info that goes in this direction , I would be either at sony with A7(x) or nikon.



and the Canon 6d II will drop in price as it gets older as well....

You want new release item at the same price as items release 1 to 2 years previous...

So do I, so do we all...


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 1, 2015)

NancyP said:


> ...
> I'd like better weatherproofing in the next 6D.


I think this will come. Canon appears to have upped their weather-sealing specifications when one considers recent releases like the 100-400mm L II lens and the 7D-II, both of which were highly praised for their rugged construction and build quality.

Many have requested an AF improvement already and besides your point above, my greatest wish would be for a slight improvement in DR, coupled with a faster sync speed and a lower base ISO. For me that would be a major upgrade for outdoor flash photography.

If they also added an articulating touch LCD with an improved interface that would be the cherry on top and I would definitely buy one (maybe even two of them)


----------



## erjlphoto (Jun 1, 2015)

Guess that making it smaller and lighter it so it can compete with M4/3 and the Sony "we don't need not stinkin' mirrors" models. 

Realistically, the body is already pretty light, its the lenses that make up most of the system weight. If you want the 100-400L or the 70-200L your still gonna be lugging a lot around.

Guess smaller lighter bodies are about perception rather than practicality.


----------



## jc7222 (Jun 2, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> I think the size of the current 6D is fine. If they make it a little smaller, sure great. But with any real glass mounted the body size becomes less and less of a factor. Right now a 6D with say a 16-35 f/4 or 24-70 f/4 has good balance. And with a small prime like the 35 f/2 IS it is a joy to bring along anywhere.
> 
> After playing around with my Tamron 150-600 this weekend on both the 70D and the 6D, I can reiterate my number one improvement would be the focus system. Give me more points, covering more of the frame, and all cross type.
> 
> A distant 2nd to the focus system, the 1/4000th shutter limit. More so now then ever, with mirrorless cameras having electronic shutters going to 1/32000, you at least need the 1/8000.



I'm considering the purchase of a phone (LG G4) that has a max shutter speed of 1/6000 sec. I actually think that Canon would be ridiculous if they didn't increase the shutter speed. 
I concur about the AF system and the size. I find the 6D just a slight bit too small for my hands to be the perfect size and find it perfect when using the battery grip. I would hate if they make it smaller...lighter would be fine although I find it to be light enough.


----------



## degos (Jun 2, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Sorry you feel that way. I bought the original 5D for $3,300 in 2005, and the 5D2 for $2,800 in 2009. The 6D is better than either of those, and I bought it for $1,450 in 2014. The 6D was $1,900 in 2013. It's now down to $1,250 at some sellers. I'm happy with the improved quality combined with the lower prices.



I didn't mind paying the full retail price for the 5D back in 2007, and I only sold it last year! Still managed to reclaim a fifth of its price.

But the 6D was meant to be everything that the 5D3 wasn't; cheap, handy, light, non-sealed, basic AF sufficient for travel and social events. 

Now they're moving the 6D2 up into the old 5D2 territory, possibly because lots of wedding photographers and other pros found the 6D quite sufficient for their needs. Canon never misses the opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars the pro-crowd, so they'll remove the 'cheap' option and everyone else be damned. 

What full-frame option for the enthusiast now?


----------



## Ladislav (Jun 2, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> I think the size of the current 6D is fine. If they make it a little smaller, sure great. But with any real glass mounted the body size becomes less and less of a factor. Right now a 6D with say a 16-35 f/4 or 24-70 f/4 has good balance. And with a small prime like the 35 f/2 IS it is a joy to bring along anywhere.
> 
> After playing around with my Tamron 150-600 this weekend on both the 70D and the 6D, I can reiterate my number one improvement would be the focus system. Give me more points, covering more of the frame, and all cross type.
> 
> A distant 2nd to the focus system, the 1/4000th shutter limit. More so now then ever, with mirrorless cameras having electronic shutters going to 1/32000, you at least need the 1/8000.



Could not agree more. Even landscape / travel camera deservers more than one useful focus point and 1/8000 shutter speed - especially with the price tag.


----------



## Ladislav (Jun 2, 2015)

I wonder how does NFC corresponds with upmarket? Are we going to tap phones or tablets to transfer 20MB+ RAW images? Is there really so many customers who are looking for upmarket camera to shot JPEGs? Don't take me wrong - I stand in the front of the queue for better connectivity features. I love GPS and I'm somehow satisfied with WiFi but NFC? I would be much happier with bluetooth for remote triggers.

I'm also not so impressed with making camera smaller. I use camera with Tamron 24-70 and Canon 70-300L a lot and having even smaller camera would not work very well for balancing the lens. Plus I'm very afraid of previous rumor about changing type of the battery to make camera smaller.


----------



## Ladislav (Jun 2, 2015)

NancyP said:


> I'd like better weatherproofing in the next 6D.



That is a very good requirement for travel camera. I don't trust weatherproofing of current model.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 2, 2015)

Ladislav said:


> Even landscape / travel camera deservers more than one useful focus point and 1/8000 shutter speed - especially with the price tag.



I completely agree with the price tag vs. features, but strictly speaking you don't "need" 1/8ks for travel and tourism, it's just one stop earlier to use the nd filter.

For motion stopping purposes, 1/4k and 1/8k imho hardly make any difference, what's really for stopping a bullet in motion are electronic shutters reaching far faster shutter speeds. But if I remember correctly, Canon might implement electronic shutter even for their old-school dslrs with the 5d4 and later.



Ladislav said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like better weatherproofing in the next 6D.
> ...



And you're right not to do so, mine already broke down once after some rain (though it survived some others before and after after immediately drying). 

However, "travel" doesn't equal "outdoors" and you'll be just fine with the current sealing for most tourism purposes. Canon will be very careful not to cross into the domain of their premium models, after all the actually working sealing is a big selling point for the 1d series and - less so - for the 5d.

If you want "sealed" and "affordable", look for Pentax, and as Canon won't catch up concerning this combination my guess is that they won't even try.


----------



## dufflover (Jun 2, 2015)

One stick out aspect of the 6D was how obviously Canon gimped it as much as it could in many areas (you'd think that would cost more to do as well ). So a tell tale is whether they will do the same here to supposedly protect the higher lines. For instance again, only a centre AF cross point? You'd think not twice in a row lol


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 2, 2015)

degos said:


> I didn't mind paying the full retail price for the 5D back in 2007, and I only sold it last year! Still managed to reclaim a fifth of its price.
> 
> But the 6D was meant to be everything that the 5D3 wasn't; cheap, handy, light, non-sealed, basic AF sufficient for travel and social events.
> 
> ...



Lots of enthusiasts (including you!) spring for the 5D-series. The 6D will still be under that, just probably by less. There doesn't even have to be anything nefarious going on - everyone complained about a few things on the 6D (AF points and shutter speed among them) and addressing them _is _"moving upmarket". An enthusiast that can't afford any of the FF options (and doesn't want a very affordable used one) isn't going to get an FF body. Canon is under no obligation to make FF available at a specific price point.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 2, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> An enthusiast that can't afford any of the FF options (and doesn't want a very affordable used one) isn't going to get an FF body. Canon is under no obligation to make FF available at a specific price point.



No, they aren't - but other brands will make ff more accessible, the Nikon d600 is the reason for the existence of the 6d in the first place.

With more used camera bodies available used prices are bound to drop. Imho there's no way out for Canon other than do real upgrades to their 5d/1d lines and hope enthusiasts on a budget will shy away from the hassle of jumping ship and be content with a "traditional" dslr in the 6d's current price region.

They might try to get away with a "early adopters" premium for 6d2 pre-orders, but I'd be very surprised if the 6d2 would stay above the current price level for a longer time.


----------



## zlatko (Jun 2, 2015)

degos said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry you feel that way. I bought the original 5D for $3,300 in 2005, and the 5D2 for $2,800 in 2009. The 6D is better than either of those, and I bought it for $1,450 in 2014. The 6D was $1,900 in 2013. It's now down to $1,250 at some sellers. I'm happy with the improved quality combined with the lower prices.
> ...



I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.

"Canon never misses an opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars" is the distinctly glass-is-half-empty view of everything. It means that if they improve a camera or lens from one model to the next and charge more for the improved model, they've done something wrong. They never get credit for the improvement, only blame for the price increase.

At the same time, forums are full of people wanting this or that improvement, but not wanting to pay for it. Someone is always blaming Canon for not building the exact camera they want at the exact price they want to pay.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 2, 2015)

zlatko said:


> I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.



Disclaimer: I'm shooting Canon for decades, and it's "my brand".

Having said that, imho Canon has worked hard to get this reputation. It really depends on the specific equipment one owns, but if you're unlucky and are not a premium customer, you could be affected by their marketing policy... I cannot count the times when I though of Canon b/c my 60d doesn't have afma at a €1000 price point. Ymmv. Magic Lantern to the rescue!



zlatko said:


> At the same time, forums are full of people wanting this or that improvement, but not wanting to pay for it.



That's how a market system works, supply and demand. It's not up to the demand to think for the supply and vice versa. Last not least, there's tech evolution so the "natural" progression is for prices to drop for the same thing or get more "value" for the same price.


----------



## K (Jun 2, 2015)

If the 6D goes away - who will pay for a crippled "entry level" FF that costs over $2,200? That's around where the 6D's retail release price was. And rumor is saying "upmarket"

"Upmarket" means only one thing -- higher price.

So...to summarize, Canon is going to offer a 6D2, at a higher price than the original 6D, which other than a newer sensor, will have minor evolutionary advancements, all in a smaller package.

This is appealing to whom? 

My guess is this is only for FF travel enthusiasts who want higher quality than a crop, but the smallest possible body. I don't see that as being a big market. 6D2 is going to be like the 5DS, another specialty type camera for existing Canon owners. Like adding another golf club to the bag. This has very little appeal to anyone who wants to enter the FF realm without paying $3K and wants to have serious features.

I think it comes down to the AF system. If they at the very least, don't put in the 61 point system of the 5D3, in following their tradition of recycling older systems, this camera will NOT be a 5D3 "lite" the same way the 6D was to the 5D2. In this regard, at least people laying down over $2K are getting a 5D3 level camera which is well rounded. However, the terms "evolutionary" indicates the 61 point system isn't happening. 

It is very hard to justify over $2,200 for a camera with a single card slot, and a primitive (by today's standards) AF system. Is the selling point that it is smaller? We'll see how that plays out. I cannot figure out why people make a big deal out of very minor differences in camera body size, when they are slapping on huge L glass. But that's another topic.

D750 is currently under $2K. And it is jam packed with many features and a very high quality sensor with top level AF. I just don't see the value in a 6D2 the way it is rumored to be spec'ed. 

I guess the real factor here is Canon glass. It is superior, but Canon must feel that their lenses are so much more superior...they can get away with what they do on some of these bodies. In other words, people put up with it because of their superiority in lenses. I agree the Canon *system* is better as a whole.

While Canon L lenses are better, with more selection and quality - Nikon is NOT that far behind. They have some killer glass that does just fine. Canon doesn't have a tremendous advantage here.

Again, before the shills and fanatics come out to attack me for criticizing Canon in an objective manner - do understand that my perspective is from either a first time FF buyer or someone wanting a serious camera at a "budget" price. My perspective is not that from a hard-core Canon owner of multiple bodies and dozens of pro lenses that doesn't mind adding another one to the arsenal.


----------



## Sith Zombie (Jun 2, 2015)

They might try to get away with a "early adopters" premium for 6d2 pre-orders, but I'd be very surprised if the 6d2 would stay above the current price level for a longer time.
[/quote]
These are my thoughts too, they'll probably price it a bit too high at first but after the early adopters have bought it, the main market will decide what they are willing to pay and we'll see the price fall.


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 2, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.
> ...



+1 Canon working hard for this reputation is spot on IMO.

You have a camera, that until recently had an MSRP in the $1800 range. 1/4000 vs 1/8000 cost them nothing. And was 1/8000 really going to infringe on the 5D3? Of course now. Same with the focus system. Could they have at least made the outter points cross type? I mean again, a camera that is pushing $2k and has a focus system on par with a Canon T2i. An entry level consumer camera from 5 years ago? Rubbish.

Obviously Canon was (maybe still is) the market leader with little competition 10, 15 years ago. So this lead to a bit of arrogance on their part I'm sure, completely understandable as it happens in business over and over again in history. It is just now the competition has caught up and is making Canon look a little less "plugged in" to the market.

Look at the lack of EF-S primes. Why can't we get a fast, ~35mm equivalent prime on a rebel after all these years? Look at what Fuji has done in the past few years.

And Sony, I am no fan of their system, but I applaud their effort, throwing everything they can into a camera, trying to find a niche, enter the market. You don't see them crippling their cameras intentional to maintain market segmentation. 

I better be careful, I feel like I'm starting to step on to a soap box. 

I get the impression though that Canon is "getting it" (M3 as an example) and I would be surprised if the next 6D is "crippled" as the current one is. I understand they are a "big ship" and can't turn on a dime. However, they have had a few years now to start turning the wheel here. Time to get on it a little bit.


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 2, 2015)

Sith Zombie said:


> They might try to get away with a "early adopters" premium for 6d2 pre-orders, but I'd be very surprised if the 6d2 would stay above the current price level for a longer time.


These are my thoughts too, they'll probably price it a bit too high at first but after the early adopters have bought it, the main market will decide what they are willing to pay and we'll see the price fall.
[/quote]

Canon's recent products have debuted at very respectable prices. I'm thinking 16-35 f/4L IS, the 7D mark 2, even the 100-400 mark 2. Going back a little bit more, the new 35mm f/2 IS debuting at $800 (if I recall correctly) was priced a bit high, especially considering the excellent Sigma 35mm Art was right there.

I can't picture the 6D2 being north of $2k, and if it is, it won't be for very long.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 2, 2015)

zlatko said:


> I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.
> 
> "Canon never misses an opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars" is the distinctly glass-is-half-empty view of everything. It means that if they improve a camera or lens from one model to the next and charge more for the improved model, they've done something wrong. They never get credit for the improvement, only blame for the price increase.
> 
> At the same time, forums are full of people wanting this or that improvement, but not wanting to pay for it. Someone is always blaming Canon for not building the exact camera they want at the exact price they want to pay.



Very much this, and especially your last paragraph.

It's a classic case of damned if they do, damned if they don't - when Canon makes a budget FF DSLR, people slam them for having an FF body that isn't packed with all the features they want. If Canon adds features to that body and raises the price, people whine that Canon isn't offering a budget FF DSLR.


----------



## Ladislav (Jun 2, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Ladislav said:
> 
> 
> > Even landscape / travel camera deservers more than one useful focus point and 1/8000 shutter speed - especially with the price tag.
> ...



Are you sure that 1/4k and 1/8k is not already an electronic shutter? It seems to me quite unrealistic to make a mechanical shutter which can move in such a speed in a small device like DSLR. My assumption was that omitting 1/8k is currently a software choice. 

If a travel camera is meant to be a tourist camera, than I understand your statement about weatherproofing but I didn't get that impression when I saw marketing material for 6D. It really looked like a camera for outdoor photography where a bad weather is part of the experience. Probably my misunderstanding. Anyway I can confirm that 6D with Tamron 24-70 VC is not weatherproof combo at all. The first try to expose it to a light rain caused quick condensation in the lens. The second try (not with the same lens) caused camera error with a message to clean contacts with a lens.

I'm very satisfied with my 6D. I'm not among those who continuously complains about switching to other manufacturer. I just see how much was 6D ripped off in some areas to not compete with higher models but it actually made it worse in those areas than much cheaper models. Eg. 10 of 11 AF points are worse than all 9 AF points on my previous Canon 650D which cost third the price. 1/8k shutter is available in cheaper bodies like 50D and 60D.

Honestly any solution which involves switching a vendor and replacing not only body but also lenses, is not affordable any more.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 2, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> +1 Canon working hard for this reputation is spot on IMO.
> 
> You have a camera, that until recently had an MSRP in the $1800 range. 1/4000 vs 1/8000 cost them nothing. And was 1/8000 really going to infringe on the 5D3? Of course now. Same with the focus system. Could they have at least made the outter points cross type? I mean again, a camera that is pushing $2k and has a focus system on par with a Canon T2i. An entry level consumer camera from 5 years ago? Rubbish.
> 
> ...



I'm sure it's not "nothing" - a higher-speed mirror and shutter costs something. Better AF points cost something. Sony is desperate and throwing everything at the wall - some people like the result, some don't. That's fine.

As for fast EF-S primes, the market for that is smaller than you think. Most crop shooters are very budget-minded and stick to the slow EF-S zooms. Those shooting crop with higher budgets are usually doing so for reach with sports and birding, so they're after the telephoto options (where the benefits of making an EF-S lens are much lesser). People wanting a fast normal lens for narrow DoF with the budget for a fast prime are mostly a crew that's going to be shooting FF. Frankly, I'm amazed the 60mm macro is even available.


----------



## ashmadux (Jun 2, 2015)

Bah, nothing matters if this body doesn't get a decent AF system. The current sensor is fantastic IMHO.

Who wants to bet it inherits the now lame 19pt af system from down the line.


----------



## 9VIII (Jun 2, 2015)

Ladislav said:


> Are you sure that 1/4k and 1/8k is not already an electronic shutter?...



Last I read the mechanical speed of the shutter is limited to about 1/200sec, thus your max sync speed when using flash. Everything beyond that is accomplished by narrowing the slit between the two halves of the shutter as it moves down the frame, the shutter never fully opens.

I was shooting some hawks on the weekend and the limitations on a Rebel were definitely annoying, there's really no reason to use a mechanical shutter anymore, and the ability to stop down using the shutter speed will be greatly appreciated (and means an infinite shutter life!).
(come to think of it, apparently the Fuji X-T10 is all electronic, one of the first bodies I've read about with no moving parts whatsoever, that thing could probably take thousands of pictures a day for decades.)


----------



## zlatko (Jun 2, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.
> ...



I disagree. I still think it's a matter of perception. "You could be affected by their marketing policy" means something bad? If you're a buyer of anything — a lens cap — I suppose you're affected by the the "marketing policy" — whatever that is. In fact, you're affected by the "marketing policy" of every company you buy from. And if you sell anything, your buyers are affected by your marketing policy.

Apparently AFMA was something that mattered to you many times, and yet you bought a 60D. That just makes no sense. Canon makes a bunch of cameras with AFMA, but you choose one that doesn't have it. So this is Canon's fault? 

The tech evolution has worked in buyers' favor time after time, with better products being introduced, often at lower prices. And yet some still perceive a constant escalation in prices, notwithstanding plenty of evidence to the contrary.

I see online forums as overflowing with misplaced anti-corporate sentiment apparently based on a feeling of entitlement to the perfect camera at the perfect price, combined with a feeling that camera companies should be not-for-profits running on pure altruism, without regard for the cost of factories, labor, materials, taxes, insurance, ... without regard for survival even. If you read enough, you get the feeling that Canon doesn't do *anything* right or for the right reason. 

If one's core outlook is cynicism and gloom, there is no new camera and no new lens that will cause them to give Canon credit for a job well done.


----------



## zlatko (Jun 2, 2015)

K said:


> If the 6D goes away - who will pay for a crippled "entry level" FF that costs over $2,200? That's around where the 6D's retail release price was. And rumor is saying "upmarket"
> 
> "Upmarket" means only one thing -- higher price.
> 
> ...



So odd to complain about a product that doesn't exist. But don't let that stop you. "Upmarket" doesn't only mean a higher price. It means a better camera. But you already know it will be "crippled" at any price, not worth whatever they'll charge for it. So you're going full speed ahead with the criticism. If your core outlook is cynicism and gloom, then no rumor can be a good rumor, and nothing Canon does will be right. And if a product makes someone else happy, it will still have "little appeal" because it didn't make you happy. Because you're objective and others aren't.


----------



## zlatko (Jun 2, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.
> ...



Thank you. Anything Canon builds — and anything they are rumored to build — leads to criticism from the glass-is-half-empty crowd. If Canon builds something better, it's to "jack up" the price and "abandon" their entry level customers. If Canon builds something cheaper, it's to "cripple" the product and "abandon" their pro customers. Always wrong, never right, never a job well done.


----------



## degos (Jun 2, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Apparently AFMA was something that mattered to you many times, and yet you bought a 60D. That just makes no sense. Canon makes a bunch of cameras with AFMA, but you choose one that doesn't have it. So this is Canon's fault?



His point was that the only reason the 60D lacks AFMA is because Canon's marketing department made that a segmentation feature. 

There is no technical reason for it to lack it, just that Canon decided that only high-end amateur and pro cameras should have it. It's a software feature that costs this much to enable for a specific model: $0.



> I see online forums as overflowing with misplaced anti-corporate sentiment apparently based on a feeling of entitlement to the perfect camera at the perfect price



That's because they make cameras for us, the users. Not for their executives, not for their shareholders. For the users. We are entitled to that perfect camera for our hard-earned cash.

If Canon can't make me the camera I want to replace, for example, the 1D4 then I'm quite entitled to state my opinions. The 1DX is lacks the reach for me. The 7D2 lacks the high-ISO quality I want. Until Canon deliver the 'perfect' camera for my needs they're not seeing a cent of my cash.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 2, 2015)

degos said:


> That's because they make cameras for us, the users. Not for their executives, not for their shareholders. For the users. We are entitled to that perfect camera for our hard-earned cash.



This is why you'll always be unhappy. You are not entitled to Canon making a high-iso 1.3x crop body any more than I'm entitled to Honda making a sports car. Companies abandon niche market segments all the time, usually to the end of those people screaming to high heaven (like the six people who bought the Ford Ranger), but usually abandoning that segment was done for a good reason.

And you're wrong - Canon makes cameras to make money for the shareholders. They're exactly like Nikon and Sony in that. If they don't think a given camera will make money (at least indirectly) it's not getting released. Period.


----------



## verysimplejason (Jun 2, 2015)

Really, to make 6D Mark II successful is just to give the current 6D an AF with all cross-type, -3 sensitive points (or 19-pt AF, all cross-type). Also, a DR improvement of 0.5, dual iso capability just like C300II, and dual SD card slot. A nice to have feature would be a vari-angle LCD screen. For me, there's no need to shrink it at all nor to increase the MP size. Just retain the same price and it's already a more viable product.


----------



## zlatko (Jun 2, 2015)

degos said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently AFMA was something that mattered to you many times, and yet you bought a 60D. That just makes no sense. Canon makes a bunch of cameras with AFMA, but you choose one that doesn't have it. So this is Canon's fault?
> ...



What is wrong with segmentation? Photographers generally don't sell a high res file at the same price as low res file, even though the photographer's added cost for the high res file is virtually zero.

Photographers who want or need AFMA can't understand or even guess why anyone would not want it. They've never heard of the camera buyer who wants a nice camera that's "not too complicated". They can't imagine a buyer who is turned off by the inclusion features that "over-complicate" a camera. They don't understand the appeal of a camera that doesn't have a nit-picky labor intensive focus adjustment feature. But Canon does understand this, so they build cameras for both kinds of buyers. Canon may calculate the true cost of AFMA not by what it costs to add it (labor hours, pages in a manual, customer support, etc.), but rather in terms of the lost sales it generates because buyers are looking for a simpler camera. I know a number of amateur photographers who would buy a DSLR but would never want to do AFMA adjustments or learn about them. Seeing AFMA in the product description would just be another clue that a particular camera is not for them.

As for that "perfect" camera that you are "entitled" to, let me be the bearer of sad news: it doesn't exist from any brand and will never exist from any brand, and you're not entitle to it anyway. Cameras aren't built for one individual's needs. That's an unattainable goal and an unrealistic expectation. But good luck in finding it.


----------



## LSXPhotog (Jun 2, 2015)

An EF-S prime? It wouldn't make all that much sense seeing that you can buy a full frame prime.

Want approximately 35mm? Get a 24mm prime.
50mm? Get a 35mm prime.
85mm? Get a 55mm prime.
135mm? Get an 85mm prime.

You're still losing the compression of a legitimate focal length on a full frame, but these give the similar image crop, leaving no need for an EF-S mount specific lens. Sigma makes a 30mm...or just buy the 35 and it will work on a full frame camera if you ever want that.


----------



## Sith Zombie (Jun 2, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> Sith Zombie said:
> 
> 
> > They might try to get away with a "early adopters" premium for 6d2 pre-orders, but I'd be very surprised if the 6d2 would stay above the current price level for a longer time.
> ...



Canon's recent products have debuted at very respectable prices. I'm thinking 16-35 f/4L IS, the 7D mark 2, even the 100-400 mark 2. Going back a little bit more, the new 35mm f/2 IS debuting at $800 (if I recall correctly) was priced a bit high, especially considering the excellent Sigma 35mm Art was right there.

I can't picture the 6D2 being north of $2k, and if it is, it won't be for very long.
[/quote]

Yeah the 7dmkii had a pretty good launch price, I agree. Over here in the U.K the 16-35mm is came in at around £1100 if I remember correctly, only a bit off the 16-35 2.8, so I think that was a bit pricy. However, now you can get it for around £800 which is very reasonable for the quality.


----------



## Sith Zombie (Jun 2, 2015)

ashmadux said:


> Bah, nothing matters if this body doesn't get a decent AF system. The current sensor is fantastic IMHO.
> 
> Who wants to bet it inherits the now lame 19pt af system from down the line.


Ha, I'll take that bet!


----------



## joseph james (Jun 2, 2015)

The smaller size and weight is good news. I think it's a given it will have a moderately improved sensor (a few more pixels, maybe a bit lower noise). What would seal the deal would be if they put the 5D3 AF in it.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 2, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> You have a camera, that until recently had an MSRP in the $1800 range. 1/4000 vs 1/8000 cost them nothing.



There's the problem: We don't know these things. It could very well be that 1/8k wears down the shutter faster, generating service costs and demanding better materials or a tougher q&c = higher production prices. Or it just could be that Canon crippled 1/8k by software for pure marketing reasons.



Ladislav said:


> Are you sure that 1/4k and 1/8k is not already an electronic shutter? It seems to me quite unrealistic to make a mechanical shutter which can move in such a speed in a small device like DSLR. My assumption was that omitting 1/8k is currently a software choice.



It's mechanical alright, you can search for a youtube highspeed-slomo video shooting a dslr shutter - even at 1/8k the slid is larger than I expected it to be. 



Ladislav said:


> If a travel camera is meant to be a tourist camera, than I understand your statement about weatherproofing but I didn't get that impression when I saw marketing material for 6D. It really looked like a camera for outdoor photography where a bad weather is part of the experience. Probably my misunderstanding.



I picked up a brochure at my local cps and it definitely has a tourist "shoot the pyramids" and landscape spin, no nothing about wet and rough outdoor use.



Ladislav said:


> 1/8k shutter is available in cheaper bodies like 50D and 60D.



Totally different b/c on a crop camera, the shutter is much smaller and it's easier to get high shutter speeds! Same reason for the 5d3 having just 1/200s flash x-sync while 60d crop and so on have 1/250s.


----------



## erjlphoto (Jun 2, 2015)

zlatko said:


> degos said:
> 
> 
> > zlatko said:
> ...



Well I have owned three, count them...one, two, three 6D's. They came after the Nikon D600 debacle when I switched to Canon. One 6D was stolen, the others are doing just fine and are a bargain considering their performance. But the camera body is small potatoes, the reason I will stay with Canon is my investment in "L" glass all of which is awesome.


----------



## lo lite (Jun 3, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told the EOS 6D Mark II, which isn’t expected until early 2016 at the earliest, will move upmarket “slightly” in features and pricing.</p>



I hope that also means it inherits the controls layout of the 5DIII/7DII.


----------



## zlatko (Jun 3, 2015)

erjlphoto said:


> Well I have owned three, count them...one, two, three 6D's. They came after the Nikon D600 debacle when I switched to Canon. One 6D was stolen, the others are doing just fine and are a bargain considering their performance. But the camera body is small potatoes, the reason I will stay with Canon is my investment in "L" glass all of which is awesome.



I have two 6D's and use them a lot. Like you, I consider them a bargain. They are not the "perfect" camera but they are very good. I tried Nikon, Fuji, Olympus and Leica and they were not perfect either. So I'm not one of those who are perpetually disappointed.


----------



## Ladislav (Jun 3, 2015)

Dear Santa Canon,

here is my Christmas wish list for Canon 6D Mk II:

Please make it proper walk around, outdoor, still, travel camera. For me that means:

Must have features:

Better AF - nothing like 7D, 5D, 1D series. Just combining -3EV centre point with AF system from 70D (all cross type!!!) nicely spread on FF size would be awesome improvement.
Better build
Better weather sealing - I don't want to be afraid of exposing the camera to light rain or humid conditions
Better AF point selector - current mechanism is terrible
Better placement and size of DoF preview button - current placement is very unfortunate
Better protection of LCD - Gorilla glass?

At least slight improvement in high-iso and low-iso performance and dynamic range. 
Keep built-in GPS - it is still one of the main reasons why I'm not considering moving upmarket to 5D

Nice to have but I will not scream if these features are missing:

100% viewfinder
1/8k shutter speed
Two SD card slots
Bluetooth as alternative to WiFi for remote triggering - it is easier to set up and you don't need to disconnect your device from WiFi
Please bring SW features available in other models (especially the latest 7D mk II). It is lame to differentiate products by SW features. Examples: 
Exposure compensation in M mode with Auto ISO
Full range of min shutter speed in AV mode and Auto ISO mode



Features I don't care about because I don't need them but I may find them useful in the future:

Increase in MP - I found 20MP enough.
f8 AF
Remote flash trigger (RT)
Faster flash x-sync

Features I really don't want (means I don't like them to increase the cost of the camera)

Built-in flash
Touch screen - I really liked touch screen on 650D but after moving to 6D I found it completely redundant
Anything related to video - If you remove current video features I will still be very happy with the camera. If I wanted to shot video I would not bought DSLR in the first place.
Swivel screen - I prefer better build
NFC - wtf?
Smaller body - I like the current one. I previously had 650D and I like current size much more.
Any change in battery size. Any downgrade in battery capacity
CF card slot

If that means "slight" increase in price, I'm still happy with that. If you need to build small FF camera to compete with Sony and others please do it as a completely new product line (8D?).


----------



## Dick (Jun 3, 2015)

My question would be: *Is it better or worse than 5D3?*
If worse, it's irrelevant. If better, I'm interested...

The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed. 1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 3, 2015)

Ladislav said:


> Features I really don't want (means I don't like them to increase the cost of the camera)
> 
> Anything related to video - If you remove current video features I will still be very happy with the camera. If I wanted to shot video I would not bought DSLR in the first place.



My man, I like the cut of your jib! 8)


----------



## Bernard (Jun 3, 2015)

9VIII said:


> Last I read the mechanical speed of the shutter is limited to about 1/200sec, thus your max sync speed when using flash. Everything beyond that is accomplished by narrowing the slit between the two halves of the shutter as it moves down the frame, the shutter never fully opens.



That's how all focal-plane shutters have worked for over 100 years. The flash-synch speed is the fastest speed at which the first curtain completely clears the sensor/film before the second curtain starts to close. Shorter speeds are achieved by having the second curtain close before the first curtain has completed its "journey."

The reason why all digital cameras don't use electronic shutters is that you can get better quality with a mechanical shutter. Short explanation: with a mechanical sensor, you can clear the sensor data before exposure (in the dark), and read the data while no new photons are coming-in. This reduces noise, increases ISO, and increases DR. Many cameras that offer electronic shutters still have mechanical shutters for this reason.


----------



## K (Jun 3, 2015)

Dick said:


> My question would be: *Is it better or worse than 5D3?*
> If worse, it's irrelevant. If better, I'm interested...
> 
> The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed. 1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.




The AF system isn't bad. It is primitive compared to what is out there today. But for what it is and how it was designed, it is very good actually. 

F1.2 on a sunny day? You need a filter for that, not 1/8000

To each his own, I don't shoot wide open on sunny days anyway. Can achieve very shallow depth of fields and good bokeh stopping down just a bit and that makes a big difference. Image is sharper at the focal point too. Either way, you'll want a filter to be able to do any kind of longer exposure in bright light.

I'm of the opposite opinion, the 6D has Canon's best button layout ever. The quality of the directional pad is a bit lacking, but I've had no issues. Rest of the buttons are the same as any other higher level Canon.



Anyhow, based on the rumors. It looks like Canon is happy with raising the price of the 6D2 without providing anything significant other than a new sensor.


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 3, 2015)

Dick said:


> The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed.



Good thing you're here to take the 6d bashing crown from my hands, I do feel relieved now 



Dick said:


> 1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.



I don't understand how this squares with your deprecatory comments about the 6d above?

Anyway, around here (Germany) the 1/4k of the 6d isn't sufficient for shooting even with my 100L f2.8 wide open in summer time, but as the other posters wrote you need a nd filter for faster lenses anyway so 1/8k won't save you.


----------



## jma5terj (Jun 3, 2015)

LSXPhotog said:


> An EF-S prime? It wouldn't make all that much sense seeing that you can buy a full frame prime.
> 
> Want approximately 35mm? Get a 24mm prime.
> 50mm? Get a 35mm prime.
> ...



They are bigger than EF-S primes would need to be, particularly the wider angles.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 3, 2015)

K said:


> Anyhow, based on the rumors. It looks like Canon is happy with raising the price of the 6D2 without providing anything significant other than a new sensor.



So, how exactly do you know there won't be anything significant? Don't cite the "evolutionary" rumor, either - there's a whole lot of room for upgrade without "revolutionary" changes.


----------



## MintChocs (Jun 3, 2015)

Dick said:


> My question would be: *Is it better or worse than 5D3?*
> If worse, it's irrelevant. If better, I'm interested...
> 
> The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed. 1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.



I'm with you on the AF point selection system, totally crap. I can live with the reduced point, single line AF points but to actually get to choose a specific point is PITA. As for 1/8000 well in the UK we hardly get any sunshine so very rarely needed. LOL.


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 3, 2015)

Ladislav said:


> Dear Santa Canon,
> 
> here is my Christmas wish list for Canon 6D Mk II:
> 
> ...



This is pretty comprehensive, yet almost echos my exact sentiments. I'd probably swap 1/8000th with better build quality/weather sealing as I see the former more important and find the current quality good enough. And maybe I'm not paranoid enough, but I've used all my DSLRS, including my old T2i, in snow, light rain plenty of times and not thought too much about it or had any issues.

Other then that I might bump faster flash sync speed up as well into the "nice to have". But otherwise I really agree with your list. Especially enjoy the "please leave off/out no interest".


----------



## Frodo (Jun 3, 2015)

I just purchased a 6D to replace my 5D II - I tend to wait until the price plateaus out. Prior to that I had a 5D, a 20D and a 300D, and before that a series of film SLR's starting with the TLb and ending with the EOS 5.

Why did I go with the 6D rather than sticking with the 5D II, or get a 5D III or a 5DS?
Well, price is important - I would rather invest in glass that I will keep for several years, rather than a body I keep for may be three.
I wanted: 
- Better focusing than the 5D II gave me in low light with the centre point - achieved.
- Quieter shutter as I shoot a lot of events/functions - achieved significantly, especially with silent shutter with little loss of function
- Better high ISO performance: achieved: 5DII topped out at 3200, 6D is at least a stop better
- Less banding in shadows: seems to have been achieved, but haven't really tested this.
- Smaller and lighter (I travel a bit and want lug less camera and have one that is less conspicuous): achieved
- GPS (I travel a lot): achieved
- Improved auto ISO, etc (I lost a lot of photos because shutter speed at 1/focal length is not sufficient for sharp photos: achieved in part: better than 5DII but could be further improved.
- Same batteries giving a serious number of shots (I have three Canon spares): achieved

What surprised me:
- The much-maligned loss of the joystick - didn't bother me at at all. Almost prefer the new set-up.
- The changed zoom play buttons: I set the magnification button to 100% so this is a simple 1 button push to check focus
- The depth of field button: actually easier to access than on 5DII (YMMV). I have it programmed to the tilt display.
- The single function buttons along the top are fine
- Wifi remote shooting works surprisingly well, although haven't really needed this yet.

What I don't need:
- 1/8000 sec (if this makes the shutter louder)
- More than 5 fps (also if this makes shutter louder)
- Two card slots
- 100% finder (but please don't go smaller than 97%)

What I miss or am disappointed in:
- In-camera HDR is almost a waste of time (the jpeg provides no more DR than pushing / pulling a single RAW file)
- Crippled software (why no separate RAW files when shooting HDR, why no in-camera editing of small RAW files?) - I installed the Russian hack in my 300D to recover functions crippled from the 10D
- Why no RAW display on top panel?

So what would I like in a 6DII? 
Well, I'm very happy with the 6D and would like more of the same.
Many of the functions listed in this long thread would be nice, but then these would increase size / price / shutter sound. There will be a 5DIV for most of those functions. I have a 7D for wildlife / sport shooting and the total price of 6D plus 7D was less than a 5DIII.
Don't need many more mega pixels. I did consider getting the 5DS, but then I hardly ever need huge files - my prints tend to be under 30 inches across and 20MP is fine for this. And I can usually stitch when I do. 
I would like better weather sealing - haven't really tested mine, but I do go to challenging locations / conditions.

So the criticised "evolution" is fine with me!


----------



## jedy (Jun 4, 2015)

> Well, I'm very happy with the 6D and would like more of the same.



Something tells me that's what we're going to get, more of the same. It'll probably get improvements to bring it in line with other Canon camera's like an improved focus system. Also lets not forget Canon wont add anything to this camera to dent the sales of a new 5DIV - look how the 6D was 'compromised' in a few areas, focus motor for one. As for video shooters, I see the video specs remaining exactly the same. No 4K - same 'would dent sales of other cameras' reason. In fact I see a 5DIV with the same video specs.

Personally for me, I am happy with my 6D (use it for video as well as photos), bearing in mind the 6DII wont be available until sometime in 2016 which is quite a way off anyway. I bought mine in 2013 when the price had been lowered so wont be keen to buy a 6DII at it's initial price. If I were to part cash for a new camera, I'd be more keen to spend it on full frame mirrorless but we don't yet have a decent and mature system with a big lineup of lenses. That would also mean selling all my Canon stuff to buy into a new system.


----------



## gggplaya (Jun 4, 2015)

If they added the 19 point all cross type AF system from the 7D/70D/T6x, i'd be a happy camper. It's plenty great for most people and won't compete with the 5D series. 

Also, considering it'll be a dedicated sensor, if they had some on sensor PDAF points like the Hybrid CMOS AFIII, it would kick butt in video. I'd also be extremely pleased. 

Some extra dynamic range would be nice, but i doubt that's coming to the 6D.


----------



## super_newbie_pro (Jun 8, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told the EOS 6D Mark II, which isn’t expected until early 2016 at the earliest, will move upmarket “slightly” in features and pricing.</p>



On thenewcamera :

Canon 6D Mark II Will Feature New Sensor, WiFi and NFC

According to the latest rumors surfaced over the web the upcoming 6D Mark II camera will going to feature better core specification including new sensor and enhanced connectivity features compared to the predecessor, that doesn’t mean the camera will become a mid-entry level fullframe camera… the camera will remain at entry level position.

The rumor also suggest that the upcoming camera will be light weight, bit pricy and smaller compared to the current 6D camera. The camera will also feature built-in WiFi and NFC + a not specified “new connectivity feature”.

Canon 6D Mark II is expected to arrive *on Q4 of 2015 or Q1 of 2016.* If Q4 2015, Canon will target Christmas Sales


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 8, 2015)

super_newbie_pro said:


> The rumor also suggest that the upcoming camera will be light weight, bit pricy and smaller compared to the current 6D camera. The camera will also feature built-in WiFi and NFC + a not specified “new connectivity feature”.



Uhg, that doesn't sound it's for me unless it has a serious sensor boost esp. in the dr department. Still, I'm happy to shoot with 6d1 camera bodies for an indefinite time in the future.



super_newbie_pro said:


> Canon 6D Mark II is expected to arrive on Q4 of 2015 or Q1 of 2016. If Q4 2015, Canon will target Christmas Sales



I still don't see this at all, not before a 5d4 release. And if it would be x-mas 15, imho there would be much more concrete rumors than now ... and there's just pure speculation.

The only way this early date is reasonable would be if the 6d2 is about a gimmick'ed 6d1 with better home user connectivity, smaller body for travel and maybe dpaf for live view shooters (which would account for the "new sensor" and the increase in price).

But still, even more expensive than the 6d1 at release price with this kind of competition, including very small mirrorless ff cameras? Canon must be very confident to have spotted a new market segment...


----------



## super_newbie_pro (Jul 30, 2015)

Canon 6D Mk II Update – According to a email we have received today from a anonymous source one of the prototype of Canon 6D Mk II features 24 MP Fullframe sensor and a subtle change in core specification compared to it’s predecessor. He also said that the prototype he is testing loaded with beta firmware and the 6D Mk II hardware performance is limited… and the end he also hinted that Upcoming Canon 1DX Mk II will have higher resolution sensor with a expandable ISO range similar to current Sony A7s camera.

Source ; new camera


----------



## K (Jul 30, 2015)

A 24MP 6D2 with a single card slot and who knows what AF isn't very appealing. 

Being (according to many here), an enthusiast's camera - I would hope for 28MP. This would make it a much better choice for the enthusiast as the current 6D is used quite a bit for landscapes. If Canon is going to omit "pro" type features from this line of camera, at least give people more resolution.

Canon really needs to offer more on this body in my opinion. Nikon's 24MP D750 offers a tilt screen, dual card slots, wifi, and a very strong 51pt AF system. It has an excellent sensor. Grey market prices I've seen go as low as $1,600ish on that. This means that the D750 is positioned as such that it can not only be a great enthusiast's camera, but it can do some pro work too. 

And.........

Nikon is going to announce their new 24-70 2.8 VR ...if they update the glass to meet or beat Canon's...this is good news for the Nikon camp. For an entry level pro - for the money, it is going to be hard to beat Nikon. And once someone is in a system, it is hard for them to switch. Canon can consider that a lost customer probably for life.

That is what's been my gripe in all of these 6D2 threads regarding single card slot. Canon doesn't have a camera competitive on features in FF at the entry level. They have a 6D2 that is slated to be neutered and clearly for the enthusiast market. Anyone with commercial intents needs to bust out another $1,500 or so for a 5 series body.

$1,500 is a fortune to many up and comers. I meet a lot of pros trying to get their foot into the market. I see the gear they are using. They badly want FF, but they aren't or can't spend that much and certainly not for a neutered camera on data safety and AF.

I think overall, a neutral, system-less shopper would find Canon's glass lineup better. But bodies do matter. Nikon has a camera that serves both purposes at that price point. Canon does not, and doesn't look like they will either.


----------



## m8547 (Jul 30, 2015)

K said:


> A 24MP 6D2 with a single card slot and who knows what AF isn't very appealing.
> 
> Being (according to many here), an enthusiast's camera - I would hope for 28MP. This would make it a much better choice for the enthusiast as the current 6D is used quite a bit for landscapes. If Canon is going to omit "pro" type features from this line of camera, at least give people more resolution.
> 
> ...



More megapixels are not necessarily better.

24mp is 4000x6000 pixels. 28mp is 4320x6480. Does an extra 320x480 pixels really matter? So you can print 1 in x 1.5 in larger. And there will be higher noise because the pixels are smaller.

Most people don't need dual card slots. If you are a pro and absolutely can't afford to lose shots, then you probably do, but then you would be using a pro camera anyway. SD cards rarely fail if you handle them carefully (avoid static discharge).

A flip out screen would be nice, but wifi can take the place of that to some extent.

How do you know it wouldn't get the 5D3's 61 AF points? The 6D is basically a slightly upgraded 5DII, so a 6DIII could be based on the 5D3.

You said it yourself, it's an enthusiast camera not a pro camera. 

I recently switched to full frame, and since I needed all new lenses I had a chance to switch to Nikon. I decided to go with Canon because the extra features of the D610 didn't matter as much as good aftermarket support, a good lineup of lenses, an intuitive and familiar interface, etc.


----------



## Crosswind (Jul 30, 2015)

Yea a flip out screen would be nice to have. I used my 6D together with the Moto G2 smartphone as a remote display, but it's always awkward to use. 

You can buy some equipment to mount your smartphone on top of your camera, but then it's very bulky to carry around.

A built-in tilting screen for the 6Dmk2 would be awesome. They are not as susceptible to damage as some people might think.

The Nikon D750 is my favorite body right now. If I wouldn't own so many canon optics, I would've already jumped over to Nikon (or Sony) just because they were able to provide a very solid tilting screen on a FF DSLR. 

The reason why I am still using Canon is because they have so unique and absolutely fantastic lenses and I hope that they will offer a FF DSLR with a tilting screen sometime in 2016.


----------



## eninja (Jul 31, 2015)

K said:


> A 24MP 6D2 with a single card slot and who knows what AF isn't very appealing.
> 
> Being (according to many here), an enthusiast's camera - I would hope for 28MP. This would make it a much better choice for the enthusiast as the current 6D is used quite a bit for landscapes. If Canon is going to omit "pro" type features from this line of camera, at least give people more resolution.
> 
> Canon really needs to offer more on this body in my opinion. Nikon's 24MP D750 offers a tilt screen, dual card slots, wifi, and a very strong 51pt AF system. It has an excellent sensor. Grey market prices I've seen go as low as $1,600ish on that. This means that the D750 is positioned as such that it can not only be a great enthusiast's camera, but it can do some pro work too.



Even 1Dx only got 18MP.
Dual card slot, strong 51pt AF system?? All I can see are desperate offer.
D750 is positioned so that it will get sold, because it aint.



K said:


> That is what's been my gripe in all of these 6D2 threads regarding single card slot. Canon doesn't have a camera competitive on features in FF at the entry level. They have a 6D2 that is slated to be neutered and clearly for the enthusiast market. Anyone with commercial intents needs to bust out another $1,500 or so for a 5 series body.
> 
> $1,500 is a fortune to many up and comers. I meet a lot of pros trying to get their foot into the market. I see the gear they are using. They badly want FF, but they aren't or can't spend that much and certainly not for a neutered camera on data safety and AF.



When you meet another amateur that wanted to be pros, but does not have funds. Why don't you tell them buy D750. Was it just now you said it is positioned to be affordable.


----------



## K (Jul 31, 2015)

m8547 said:


> If you are a pro and absolutely can't afford to lose shots, then you probably do, but then you would be using a pro camera anyway.




This is the prevailing assumption here on this forum, and based on my experience with many local wedding and event pros, does not reflect reality. 

This idea that if you need it, you'll get it, doesn't quite apply. Not when Canon makes you pay $1,000 more than Nikon.

There's also the assumption that because someone is shooting professionally, that is, for money to get paid in order to eat, that busting out $3,000 for a 5D series camera is a given. It just goes with the turf. Standard practice. Not at all.

On crop, there's the 7D2 offering two slots for a street price now around $1,500 and that is reasonable. However, in FF - Canon has nothing to compete with Nikon regarding data security for pro use at an entry level price point.

D750 seen prices as low as $1,600 and that is a well featured, serious camera body.


Canon's level to entry for that kind of functionality and features is $1,000 higher. That's a lot of cash to a newbie pro. 


For someone entering the FF marketplace for the first time and having to decide between systems, the Nikon system offers more. 

Canon is still better, if money isn't a concern. If your photography career is taking off fast, or you are well capitalized - no issue here. But for the majority, pros starting out are mostly starving.


I still think it is utterly absurd that Canon would sell a $2,000+ FF camera is 2016 with one card slot.


I think some people just don't want to come to accept the fact that their beloved Canon corporation omits this feature specifically to upsell anyone with pro desires to the 5D line. They know this is an important feature in this day and age. It bugs the Canon fanatics that their company would think or act that way. But it is the truth. I think it is a poor tactic and a bad value since who is to say one must be being paid for their photos in order to try and protect them? A $10,000 vacation to a once in a lifetime location is important too. Or a baby's first steps....

No amount of the Canon apologists downplaying will ever overcome the importance of this feature now that it exists. That is precisely what you get when dual slots and 6D2 comes into the discussion. Incessant, illogical downplaying of the 2nd card slot. All you end up with is babbling when you reverse their logic and say that if it isn't so important, the 5D and 1D line ought to just go back to 1 slot. When that is said, they have no answer.

Real pros, when they CAN - always favor dual slots. When they can't have dual slots, they go to other extents to protect the data. Offloading photos on site to drives or PC's and more. If they can't do dual slots, it is because of cost. There is no other reason. Which is my whole point. Nikon is offering it on ALL FF cameras, including one crop camera. They are offering it at a price point less than what the 6D2 will release at.

Under $2,000 ---

Nikon
D7200, D610, D750 -

Canon
7D2



Ok, that concludes my monthly 6D one card slot rant.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 1, 2015)

K said:


> A 24MP 6D2 with a single card slot and who knows what AF isn't very appealing.
> 
> Being (according to many here), an enthusiast's camera - I would hope for 28MP. This would make it a much better choice for the enthusiast as the current 6D is used quite a bit for landscapes. If Canon is going to omit "pro" type features from this line of camera, at least give people more resolution.
> 
> ...


+1, 24MP is "not enough". The amateur Landscaper and event shooter will both benefit from more resolution and lighter weight. Improvements in AF will benefit anyone who uses AF, which is a lot of people. The way I hope Canon will differentiate the 5D-IV is with video capabilities and not by crippling the 6D-II in stupid ways.

A higher-res 6D sensor will do more to encourage lens sales. First-time full framers will not necessarily have much high-performance (and durable) EF glass other than an f/4 kit lens. In contrast to the 6D buyer, someone buying a 5Ds/R will probably already have a bunch of excellent lenses so cross-selling high-end/specialized lenses becomes much more limited. (e.g. in South Africa at least, the 5Ds and R are not sold with a kit lens. Buyers are assumed to already have appropriate glass)

Regarding the competition...

Currently the 6D is competing directly with high-end mirrorless on a price basis. Mirrorless bodies also opens the door to a myriad of lens options not provided by Canon, which is why Canon hasn't gone full-steam-ahead and shot themselves in the foot. However, with mirrorless AF capabilities and EVFs constantly improving they will probably either need to up the capabilities of entry level DSLRs or make a serious statement in the mirrorless market. e.g. A Canon EOS MX1-R (Canon EOS M + NX1 + 1DX + 5Ds-R) If the 6D-II offers no AF advantage, no res advantage and no video advantage then why buy it? The 6D-II without adequate improvements or some game-changing technology will be DoA from a marketing perspective.


----------

