# Any word on the 50mm with Image Stabilzation?



## Renaissance (Jun 17, 2014)

I've been enjoying my 35mm so much (made me sell my Sigma 35 Art), especially since I do plenty of video work as well as photography  

I'm also having fun with my friends' 24 and 28 IS, so I definitely want to try a 50mm, if it's as good as the 35 I'll buy one!


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## Ruined (Jun 17, 2014)

Canon is likely saving up for a big showing at Photokina in the fall, would not be surprised if that is one of the lenses announced.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 17, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Canon is likely saving up for a big showing at Photokina in the fall, would not be surprised if that is one of the lenses announced.



I would also not be surprised if this is not announced, if the outdated 50/1.8 and 50/1.4 have been selling so far they will continue to do so. The 50/1.2 is a unique prestige cash cow not to be easily endangered by a faster 50mm with IS and good bokeh.


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## e17paul (Jun 18, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > Canon is likely saving up for a big showing at Photokina in the fall, would not be surprised if that is one of the lenses announced.
> ...



If Canon are afraid to endanger their existing products, they will lose out to third party manufacturers. I'm already thinking of a switch to Sigma or more likely Zeiss in the absence of a 50 macro with the build and IS of my 24. 

Worse still, Canon risk losing those customers buying into a first DSLR or trading up from crop sensor kit. Nikon have a tempting range of primes, and Sony will have a fast growing selection of quality FE lenses coming this year and next. If those buyers invest in Nikon or Sony kit instead, they will be difficult to pull back. 

Canon have proved they are not afraid by introducing the IS primes against L primes. Does the 35L stand head an shoulders above the 35 IS? (I'm suspecting the 35L II must be coming soon)

The 24 IS makes me feel glad I committed to Canon, if a better 50 prime or two is announced then I will be convinced. All 4 of Canon's 50 primes have been neglected for far too long. It's time to bring the 50 and 85 primes up to modern standards. The manual focus on the 50/1.8 ii gives a poor impression of Canon, though the optics are commendable for the money - it's the only lens I have ever felt moved to sell, even after cheap third party OM lenses in my student days. 

The kit lenses with wobbly focus rings are slowly being phased out in favour of STM lenses with better build and positive reviews. The more affordable full frame lenses will follow (I hope) with USM and IS, as has already happened at 24, 28 and 35.

If the 50/1.4 has a place, it is as an entry level lens below an IS model with ring USM. That is the path already taken by the 28/1.8 which now exists as a cheap alternative to the 28 IS.

I'm crossing my fingers for new primes this year. Canon already have an outstanding range of telephoto zooms, a strong range of mid range zooms, and an inceasing range of wide zooms.


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## brad-man (Jun 18, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > Canon is likely saving up for a big showing at Photokina in the fall, would not be surprised if that is one of the lenses announced.
> ...



The 50/1.2 is threatened by the Sigma 50A, not the EF 50/x IS. I hope Sigma can ramp up production enough to fulfill demand for the 18-35A and the 50A, so that when they release my new 85A I won't have to wait too long to get it. I am also very interested in the presumably soon-to-be-released 50 IS. I wonder if it's going to have a silly high release price like that of its siblings, or more in line with current prices.


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## drmikeinpdx (Jun 18, 2014)

Add me to the list of photographers waiting for a stabilized 50mm prime. Until then I'll just keep using my Sigma 50 1.4 non-Art lens. It's a good value for $500. It would not focus very consistently on my old 5D classic, but my 5D3 makes it focus like a champion.


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## ahsanford (Jun 18, 2014)

For the 87th time, Canon is working on an EF 50mm F/(no one knows) IS USM. Going to happen. Done deal. (An 85 as well, surely.)

It will be exactly like the other non-L IS refreshes that the 24/28/35mm focal lengths got in the last two years:


Far far sharper. As good or better than Canon's large aperture L in the same FL.
Modern, fast USM
Size on par with the current 50 F/1.4 -- i.e. much much smaller and lighter than the L or the Sigma Art.
3-4 stops of IS
Much better build quality: solid feel, higher quality plastics, etc.
Internal focusing

_...and it will be worth every penny._ If you want a solid 50mm for all purposes including handholdability in low-light, video, etc., this will undoubtedly be it. The Sigma Art is a stellar lens at a great value, but a one stop advantage of speed is obliterated by 3-4 stops of IS depending on what you shoot. (For me, that's huge.) And we all know what a fickle diva the 50 F/1.2L is -- stellar draw/bokeh/feel but soft as a noodle in the corners and somewhat finnicky AF at wider apertures.

The only unknowns remaining are the max aperture and the cost. 

All prior non-Ls that got this refresh treatment retained their prior max aperture (24 and 28 --> F/2.8, 35 --> F/2). However, in this segment, an F/1.4 IS might be big and heavy and perhaps Canon doesn't want to do that, so some folks have posited that it will be a segment-shaker-upper and be an F/1.8 IS. We shall see.

The cost will depend on a lot of things:


Is it replacing the Canon EF 50 F/1.4 USM or will it be sold alongside it?
Will the max aperture be F/1.4? F/1.8? F/2?
How sharp will it be? If it outpunches the 50 F/1.2L considerably (which not a high bar at all), will Canon enjoy people paying (say) $600 instead of $1500 for sharper lens? (Replace $600 with $949 and you can see why Sigma loves life right now.)

So my guess is that it will be 90% as sharp as the Sigma Art (at comparable apertures) and run high at first offering -- say $799 -- to gobble up every photog who has stuck with the Canon 50 F/1.4 because the L is lacking something that they need. Over time, the price might settle down around $600 like the other non-L IS refreshes.

- A


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## pj1974 (Jun 18, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> For the 87th time, Canon is working on an EF 50mm F/(no one knows) IS USM. Going to happen. Done deal. (An 85 as well, surely.)
> 
> It will be exactly like the other non-L IS refreshes that the 24/28/35mm focal lengths got in the last two years:
> 
> ...



+0.8 [that is, quite close to my thoughts about this matter.]

_Edit - the main thing that I believe I'll stick with a Canon 50mm prime with (rather than a Sigma, or other 3rd party lens) is that there have been slight AF inconsistencies with 3rd party lenses, which is crucial for my style of 50mm shallow depth of field photography....._

Thanks for saving me some typing time, ahsanford


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## Ruined (Jun 18, 2014)

Personally I believe the 50mm IS will be f/1.8... It would match the trend of the 24mm/28mm/35mm IS lenses.

And, a patent for a Canon 50mm f/1.8 IS actually exists (there is no f/1.4 IS patent I am aware of):
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2013-07-24

Also, the 50mm f/1.8 IS will be a different beast than the Canon 50mm f/1.2L, but it will likely replace the Canon 50mm f/1.4 and/or f/1.8 II.


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## Mr_Canuck (Jun 18, 2014)

No, but there's a 55-200 for the obscure M mount, not available in North America. Year of the lens. 

(But if they do cough up a 50/1.8 or faster with IS, it might be the first item I've ever pre-ordered.)


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## ahsanford (Jun 18, 2014)

Mr_Canuck said:


> (But if they do cough up a 50/1.8 or faster with IS, it might be the first item I've ever pre-ordered.)



They have to and they will. The question is when, at what max aperture, and how much it will cost.

Personally, I'm also a little curious to see which 50 they are replacing with this IS marvel. Before the refreshes started, there were roughly two prime price points below the L lenses:

*Group 1: Squeaky Cheapo Simple*

EF 24 F/2.8 (non-USM)
EF 28 F/2.8 (non-USM)
EF 35 F/2 (non-USM)
EF 50 F/1.8 (non-USM) and there were a few versions of this one if memory serves

*Group 2: Better But Not Best*

EF 20mm F/2.8 USM
EF 28mm F/1.8 USM
EF 50mm F/1.4 USM (not modern USM, but still way better than the AF speed of Group 1)
EF 85mm F/1.8 USM
EF 100mm F/2 USM

Red text = what was obsoleted as a result of the non-L IS refreshes.

So, Ruined is right, now that I look at it: F/1.8 is likely to be the aperture of the new 50mm IS lens if everything is held consistent with the other non-L IS refreshes.

_*But...*_

The nifty fifty for $125 has a valuable price point for the business, and most of the people screaming for this 50 IS lens want it as much for sharpness/AF/general improvement reasons as the IS crowd -- and it's logical to assume that those with this pent up demand have left the nifty fifty for either the Sigma F/1.4 or Canon F/1.4 a long time ago. So the logical lens it should replace is the 20 year old 50mm F/1.4 USM from Group 2, right?

- A


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## Marsu42 (Jun 18, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> For the 87th time, Canon is working on an EF 50mm F/(no one knows) IS USM. Going to happen. Done deal.



Prey, where is your source of Canon insight? Or is it just logic that also says that the 35L2 is a done deal after they updated the 24L1? Or that a 24-70L-IS is bound to happen sooner or later?

Canon is working on a lot of things, patents and pre-production samples. But that doesn't mean at all that a timely release will be ack'ed by their marketing department. I agree that it sounds plausible that these prime IS holes are filled with products, but looking at [CR] rumors you really never know.


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## Renaissance (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies guys, very insightful and entertaining!

I too am very curious as to see what Canon will do with their 50mm segment. 
The 50mm 1.8 will probably remain the entry level lens of choice for low light / aperture shooting.

As it is, people buy the 50L when the 50 1.4 creates the same image / effects basically.
The 50L just has better build quality and weather sealing. (And 1.2) For those that want those extras.

If anything, it would be exciting to see Canon going up against the competition by making their 50mm IS a 1.4.
Then perhaps, down the line, they'll push for an even better update to the 50L (like another f1.0 maybe?)


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## ahsanford (Jun 18, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > For the 87th time, Canon is working on an EF 50mm F/(no one knows) IS USM. Going to happen. Done deal.
> ...



Disregard the CR ratings. These lenses are 20 years old and they are slowly being refreshed. First it was 24/28/35, and I expect the 50, 85 and 100 will get refreshed before too long. 

Ruined's point about the Group 1 lenses getting the refresh treatment only has me _certain_ of the 50 getting the refresh/modernization/IS green light as there is a 50 prime in that group. The 85 and 100 could use it but are not part of that uber cheapo group, and my confidence is lower on those.

But it's just my gut plus some patent listings plus the success of competitors in certain focal lengths. It's about as accurate as reading tea leaves, I admit.

- A


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## mrzero (Jun 18, 2014)

I think the consensus here is correct, but I will say this -- I am almost certain that it will be a 50mm 1.8 IS, that the current 50mm 1.8 II will be discontinued (with its entry-level fast prime status handed off to the 40mm), and the current 50mm 1.4 will stay for now (like the 28mm 1.8 alongside the 28mm 2.8 IS).

The 85mm (and higher) IS options are a bit more puzzling. The 135mm 2.8 soft focus has basically been phased out, and that could be an excellent candidate for replacement with IS since it doesn't have USM and the only other 135mm is the non-IS L. There are no similar options at 85 or 100. Both of those non-L lenses are USM, seem to be popular. I could see Canon adding an 85mm IS option at a price point between the USM and the L, maybe at f/2 or f/2.8. I don't know about that for the 100mm, since that slot already has the fast 2 USM, the macro 2.8 USM, and the macro 2.8 IS USM L that is relatively affordable.

And I don't think anybody knows what Canon is going to do with their fast USM non-L primes (the "Group 2" in ahsanford's post above).


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## ahsanford (Jun 18, 2014)

mrzero said:


> I think the consensus here is correct, but I will say this -- I am almost certain that it will be a 50mm 1.8 IS, that the current 50mm 1.8 II will be discontinued (with its entry-level fast prime status handed off to the 40mm), and the current 50mm 1.4 will stay for now (like the 28mm 1.8 alongside the 28mm 2.8 IS).
> 
> The 85mm (and higher) IS options are a bit more puzzling. The 135mm 2.8 soft focus has basically been phased out, and that could be an excellent candidate for replacement with IS since it doesn't have USM and the only other 135mm is the non-IS L. There are no similar options at 85 or 100. Both of those non-L lenses are USM, seem to be popular. I could see Canon adding an 85mm IS option at a price point between the USM and the L, maybe at f/2 or f/2.8. I don't know about that for the 100mm, since that slot already has the fast 2 USM, the macro 2.8 USM, and the macro 2.8 IS USM L that is relatively affordable.
> 
> And I don't think anybody knows what Canon is going to do with their fast USM non-L primes (the "Group 2" in ahsanford's post above).



Everything you said makes perfect sense except for obsoleting that nifty fifty. This new USM lens will be _4-5x _the price of it, so I have to feel like it will pull the current 50 F/1.4 users much more strongly.

Just a gut feeling on my part, though -- you very well may be right.

- A


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## Marsu42 (Jun 18, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> Everything you said makes perfect sense except for obsoleting that nifty fifty.



Absolutely, my guess that there's a long-term bet running between top Canon execs on how long they get away making any money with this and the current CEO guessed "at least until 2020" :->


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## DRR (Jun 18, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> The nifty fifty for $125 has a valuable price point for the business, and most of the people screaming for this 50 IS lens want it as much for sharpness/AF/general improvement reasons as the IS crowd -- and it's logical to assume that those with this pent up demand have left the nifty fifty for either the Sigma F/1.4 or Canon F/1.4 a long time ago. So the logical lens it should replace is the 20 year old 50mm F/1.4 USM from Group 2, right?



I would say a new 50mm would replace the 50mm 1.4.

They might replace it with a 50mm f/1.8 IS or a 50mm f/1.4 IS. I could see either happening. In the former, you lose 2/3 a stop at the expense of better build quality and IS. In the latter, you update the existing 1.4 and adds IS.

In either example... I don't think they *ever* obsolete the plastic fantastic. It's Canon's ultimate gateway drug. It's the first step in turning all those users T3's and XSi's with 18-55s they buy at Target, into people who post on gear forums and look at MTF charts all day. 50mm 1.8 was my first prime, I still use it to this day. It's a cheap and easy introduction into what you can do with a fast lens and how beautiful your shots can be.


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## ahsanford (Jun 18, 2014)

DRR said:


> I would say a new 50mm would replace the 50mm 1.4.
> 
> They might replace it with a 50mm f/1.8 IS or a 50mm f/1.4 IS. I could see either happening. In the former, you lose 2/3 a stop at the expense of better build quality and IS. In the latter, you update the existing 1.4 and adds IS.
> 
> In either example... I don't think they *ever* obsolete the plastic fantastic. It's Canon's ultimate gateway drug. It's the first step in turning all those users T3's and XSi's with 18-55s they buy at Target, into people who post on gear forums and look at MTF charts all day. 50mm 1.8 was my first prime, I still use it to this day. It's a cheap and easy introduction into what you can do with a fast lens and how beautiful your shots can be.



+1 

That's spot on. Many will say 2/3 of a stop is a big deal to give up, but hell, I'd buy that 50 IS even if it was F/2. 

- A


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## mrzero (Jun 18, 2014)

Regarding the nifty fifty, I just think that Canon is showing a clear trend away from the wide aperture lenses as entry level. I'm not saying they are going to announce tomorrow that the current 1.8 is out of stock everywhere. I just think that production will quietly be stopped and once the current stock runs out, it will be gone. The 50mm 1.8 originally was meant to be used with film cameras where you sometimes couldn't get anything unless you had 1.8 light. Now we have comparatively insane ISO capabilities. You don't *need* 1.8 to get a viewable picture. The only reason to have 1.8 is the depth of field and bokeh. I think Canon would rather use the 40mm 2.8 as the "gateway" lens to that, because 1.8 is not easy to work with. After they've sold you the pancake at $150ish and you've figured out how depth of field and focusing works, then they sell you the 50mm 1.4 or the 1.8 IS at $350 or $550. 

Seriously, this is Canon. Do you really believe they want to keep offering us a great deal on a cheap lens, when they can offer us a good deal on an affordable lens (the 40) and a rebate/MAP deal on a second (one of the 50s)? I would love to see a 50mm 1.4 with IS added, but I think that is wishful thinking. I just looked at B&H for the rest of the 50mm full-frame lenses with IS, and there aren't any. So Canon is going to do whatever the heck they want, because this is going to be a unique product. Because they can't add IS to a 1.4 and compete with the new Sigma Art or the Zeiss Otus on sharpenss and image quality, because it would cost too much. I would have also rather seen the 28mm IS at 1.8 rather than 2.8, but it didn't happen that way. They even went so far as to have the IS wide primes at 24mm 2.8 and 28mm 2.8, rather than create a meaningful distinction between the two (i.e. wider but slower, faster but less wide). 

Which is just a long way of saying that I think they are going to cull the "Group 1" non-USM primes in this IS update, and then we'll see something else happen to the "Group 2" USM primes (good or bad, I don't know).

Also, I think that the Sigma Art 50, the Zeiss Otus, and Nikon's 58mm recent offerings have pushed Canon's IS update back here. Canon wants to let some of the hype die down before they get out there. Because people are clearly clamoring for this thing and complaining about the lack of qualify 50mm options in Canon's lineup.


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## e17paul (Jun 18, 2014)

mrzero said:


> Which is just a long way of saying that I think they are going to cull the "Group 1" non-USM primes in this IS update, and then we'll see something else happen to the "Group 2" USM primes (good or bad, I don't know).



+1. Getting rid of AFD motors will improve the perception of Canon's quality to those looking for their first DSLR in a local electronics store. It will also rationalise the component inventory and production lines. That's all part of running a profitable business. The product refreshes of the last couple of years will be completed with the next slew of announcements. I'm looking forward to the news from Photokina, I hope I'm not disappointed.


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## brad-man (Jun 18, 2014)

I don't think the 50 f/x IS will replace anything. Canon will have 4 50mm lenses out in the wild. I think they'll leave the little 50 alone and upgrade the 1.2 and 1.4 as it suits them. I also suspect that the new 50 will be f/2 to keep the size/price down. Isn't guessing fun?


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## Ruined (Jun 18, 2014)

I agree with most that the new 50mm IS will be f/1.8 based on history, and of the available Canon patent which is a 50mm f/1.8 IS. There is no Canon patent of a 50mm f/1.4 with IS.

In terms of which lens it will replace, there is a good argument for both.

First, lets look at why many buy the 50mm f/1.4 over the f/1.8:
* Superior build quality - 50mm f/1.8 II is super plastic, 50mm f/1.4 is more solid (but does have its own issues)
* Superior autofocus - f/1.4 has superior USM over the f/1.8 II's micro motor.
* Better image quality - f/1.4 is sharper with less falloff
* Faster aperture - f/1.4 is faster than f/1.8

HYPOTHETICAL:
Now, lets look at a potential 50mm f/1.8 IS if it follow the trends of the 35mm f/2 IS.
-The 50mm f/1.8 IS will certainly have better build quality than the 50mm f/1.4, which has a history of autofocus reliability issues and simply isn't built to the same standard as the new IS lenses.
-The 50mm f/1.8 IS will likely have faster and quieter autofocus than the 50mm f/1.4 if the 35 IS is any indication.
-The 50mm f/1.8 IS will likely have slightly better image quality than the 50mm f/1.4, with modern touches such as curved aperture blades and newer lens coatings
-Obviously the 50mm f/1.4 can do f/1.4, while the 50mm f/1.8 IS cannot
-However, the 50mm f/1.8 IS can do image stabilized video, while the 50mm f/1.4 cannot
-The 50mm f/1.8 IS will likely stabilize at $549, versus $349 street for the 50mm f/1.4

So, the 50mm f/1.4 I believe will become a much less attractive lens, with price being its main draw. But, those truly fixated on price may be attracted to the cheaper 50mm f/1.8 II or 40mm f/2.8 STM instead. And, those wanting the better build and more modern features & design will be attracted to the 50mm f/1.8 IS. Those wanting the ultimate in aperture will be drawn to the 50mm f/1.2L. Those who do video will easily elect the 50mm f/1.8 IS. Thus, I believe that the 50mm f/1.4 will be stuck as an unpopular middle option if all four lenses are to be sold - I am not sure there is enough market to support four different 50mm prime lenses.

So, I see three possible results of this.
1. The 50mm f/1.8 II is discontinued, and the price of the 50mm f/1.4 is further lowered to $299 street to bridge the price gap somewhat. The 40mm STM f/2.8 is positioned at $149 street to entice what would be former 50mm f/1.8 II buyers. 
2. The 50mm f/1.4 is discontinued, and the 50mm f/1.8 II remains as a cheap "gateway lens" to get people into the habit of buying lenses; remember though, the 40mm f/2.8 STM can already serve this same purpose, so this is not a necessity.
3. The 50mm f/1.8 IS is added to the lineup and nothing is discontinued. But wow, that is a lot of similar lenses.

Thus in table form, I could see:

OPTION 1 (more likely):
50mm f/1.2L - $1599
50mm f/1.8 IS - $549
50mm f/1.4 - $299
40mm f/2.8 STM - $149

OPTION 2 (less likely - too much overlap at $100-150, too much gap between $150 and $500)
50mm f/1.2L - $1599
50mm f/1.8 IS - $549
40mm f/2.8 STM - $149
50mm f/1.8 II - $109

OPTION 3 (less likely - too many similar lenses)
50mm f/1.2L - $1599
50mm f/1.8 IS - $549
50mm f/1.4 - $349
40mm f/2.8 STM - $149
50mm f/1.8 II - $109

Of course, all speculation, but that is the fun part!


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## wickidwombat (Jun 19, 2014)

im still super keen for this lens even though i have the sigma i would use this lens more on the eos M


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## ahsanford (Jun 19, 2014)

mrzero said:


> Now we have comparatively insane ISO capabilities. You don't *need* 1.8 to get a viewable picture. The only reason to have 1.8 is the depth of field and bokeh.



Respectfully disagree -- there is one reason you forgot. Low light with moving subjects requires fast glass -- IS doesn't do a thing for that. Lenses for indoor events like sports and concerts need all the speed they can get. I recognize the 50 F/1.8 is not a sports lens for a boatload of reasons, but you get my point. What my brother (more on the novice end) can't capture at a school concert with his kids with his kit 18-55 crop zoom can be better pulled off with his nifty fifty.

And though we can use high ISOs on DSLRs these days, not everyone _likes_ climbing up to ISO 3200, 6400, and beyond in poor light. It's useable, but it's simply not as good as a shot at a lower ISO.



mrzero said:


> Seriously, this is Canon. Do you really believe they want to keep offering us a great deal on a cheap lens, when they can offer us a good deal on an affordable lens (the 40) and a rebate/MAP deal on a second (one of the 50s)?



I'm torn on this one. Evil-Big-Corporation Canon (who punishes us often with new lens prices) would do exactly what you've said. But Thoughtful-We-Are-The-World Canon seems to have protected two lenses as mass-produced, cheap, sharp plastic lenses -- the nifty fifty and the kit 18-55 (revised a good 5-6 times by now). Both are marvelously sharp for the dollar.

I think Canon would rather make a III version of that EF 50 F/1.8 lens -- possibly with STM (no chance with IS) and keep it reasonably priced, say $150-175 -- than obsolete the nifty fifty altogether. As much as we're sitting on a gear-obsessed forum, they need a reasonably priced low end to their lens offerings for novices and those on budget. Canon isn't Leica, after all.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 19, 2014)

Ruined said:


> So, I see three possible results of this.
> 1. The 50mm f/1.8 II is discontinued, and the price of the 50mm f/1.4 is further lowered to $299 street to bridge the price gap somewhat. The 40mm STM f/2.8 is positioned at $149 street to entice what would be former 50mm f/1.8 II buyers.
> 2. The 50mm f/1.4 is discontinued, and the 50mm f/1.8 II remains as a cheap "gateway lens" to get people into the habit of buying lenses; remember though, the 40mm f/2.8 STM can already serve this same purpose, so this is not a necessity.
> 3. The 50mm f/1.8 IS is added to the lineup and nothing is discontinued. But wow, that is a lot of similar lenses.
> ...



Good thoughts. Here are a few considerations that come from them:


The 40mm Pancake is not part of a '50 prime ecosystem' in my mind. That's its own animal. Throw the focal length out for a minute. I just think the pancake is an odd duckbill platypus of a lens experiment -- will people use a focus-by-wire little guy with few common lens creature comforts? I see it like a soft focus or a 1:2 Macro prime -- just a unique little creature. I'd leave it out of a pricing tree discussion, personally.
You may be underestimating the Canon 50mm F/1.4 user base. That is the sharpest 50 Canon sells. By F/2.8 or so, it outclasses the L. So the L is relegated to portraiture / art / small DOF work, and the 50 F/1.4 is the more-general-use lens that I see in pros hands at events, in photojournalists hands, etc. *And I think this is the Canon userbase that is screaming for a better do-everything option in the 50mm segment. * This group probably just wants a modern 50mm F/1.4 _*II*_ more than they want a 50 IS, but if the new 50 IS gets them the IQ improvements, internal focusing, build quality, true USM focusing speed, etc. they will gladly pony up the money on day one. This is the largest pent up demand segment in Canon's prime universe, I believe.
So my vote is to buck the trend of eliminating the Group 1 lenses in just this focal length. Offer the new 50/(whatever) IS and replace the 20 year old 50 F/1.4 that many folks are stuck with as their best option.
I think it will be pricey at first as Canon snatches up all the pent up demand from the current 50 F/1.4 user base -- say $750. But then it should walk down like all the other IS refreshes have. $500-600 seems about right.

- A


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 19, 2014)

Is it pretty much everyone's opinion that a 50mm needs IS?

While I would never refuse IS, I never really thought that a decient 50 needed IS. Especially these days when shooting four digit ISO is becoming more commonplace. 

If Canon brings out a new very good 50 but for some reason it does not have IS, would that really affect your buying decision?


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## ahsanford (Jun 19, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Is it pretty much everyone's opinion that a 50mm needs IS?
> 
> While I would never refuse IS, I never really thought that a decient 50 needed IS. Especially these days when shooting four digit ISO is becoming more commonplace.
> 
> If Canon brings out a new very good 50 but for some reason it does not have IS, would that really affect your buying decision?



The short answer is that Canon would be fools not to offer IS. You and many other photogs may not need it, but many folks would love it -- video folks, handholding low-light shooters, etc. 

For me, yes -- it matters. I am overwhelmingly a natural light shooter of things that don't move much. Each stop of IS in poor light lets me (a) walk the ISO back down to earth or (b) walk the aperture down to a sharper regime with more working DOF. 

There are three reasons I am going to buy this thing: improved IQ over my Canon 50 F/1.4, Image Stabilization, and it being smaller and lighter than the Sigma 50 Art. I'm a weirdo who thinks a walkaround prime shouldn't be as big/heavy as a pickle jar.

- A


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## EOBeav (Jun 19, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Is it pretty much everyone's opinion that a 50mm needs IS?



Nope. Then again, I won't be in the market for this lens. I'm hanging on to my 50 f/1.4 and shooting happy.


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## mrzero (Jun 19, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> mrzero said:
> 
> 
> > Now we have comparatively insane ISO capabilities. You don't *need* 1.8 to get a viewable picture. The only reason to have 1.8 is the depth of field and bokeh.
> ...





ahsanford said:


> The 40mm Pancake is not part of a '50 prime ecosystem' in my mind. That's its own animal. Throw the focal length out for a minute. I just think the pancake is an odd duckbill platypus of a lens experiment -- will people use a focus-by-wire little guy with few common lens creature comforts? I see it like a soft focus or a 1:2 Macro prime -- just a unique little creature. I'd leave it out of a pricing tree discussion, personally.
> You may be underestimating the Canon 50mm F/1.4 user base. That is the sharpest 50 Canon sells. By F/2.8 or so, it outclasses the L. So the L is relegated to portraiture / art / small DOF work, and the 50 F/1.4 is the more-general-use lens that I see in pros hands at events, in photojournalists hands, etc. *And I think this is the Canon userbase that is screaming for a better do-everything option in the 50mm segment. * This group probably just wants a modern 50mm F/1.4 _*II*_ more than they want a 50 IS, but if the new 50 IS gets them the IQ improvements, internal focusing, build quality, true USM focusing speed, etc. they will gladly pony up the money on day one. This is the largest pent up demand segment in Canon's prime universe, I believe.
> So my vote is to buck the trend of eliminating the Group 1 lenses in just this focal length. Offer the new 50/(whatever) IS and replace the 20 year old 50 F/1.4 that many folks are stuck with as their best option.
> I think it will be pricey at first as Canon snatches up all the pent up demand from the current 50 F/1.4 user base -- say $750. But then it should walk down like all the other IS refreshes have. $500-600 seems about right.
> ...



All good points. I do wonder, though, if entry level users are actually get the nifty fifty and using it in those low-light situations (indoor sports, theater). I was more under the impression that they were just turning on the flash and wondering why things were blurry. I'm not really in those settings now, so I don't know. But the people who buy $100 lenses don't know the difference between 6400 and 12800 ISO. Once they do, they are committed enough to pony up a few more bucks for the "Group 2" lenses that meet their needs. Also, the part in red about wanting a new 50mm 1.4, I agree 200%. I just think that Canon is content to move more slowly on the Group 2's and start with the Group 1's first.

I wish we were voting! We only get to vote with our dollars, euros, yen, which means we only get to vote after the products are released, not before.


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## Hannes (Jun 20, 2014)

To me a likely solution would be to move things about a bit. I doubt they will get rid of a cheap 50mm lens so my expectation would be that they drop the 50/1.4 and replace it with a 1.8 (1.7?) IS USM version and the 50/1.8 would become a 50/2 STM lens to differentiate a bit more. I would also hope they'd update the 50/1.2 to make it a little sharper to be able to compete better with the third party offerings that have now come out. Who knows, maybe they'll move it back into the 85/1.2 shell and work from there.


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## davidcl0nel (Jun 21, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> *Group 1: Squeaky Cheapo Simple*
> ...
> *Group 2: Better But Not Best*



I agree to this type of grouping. The new style is also a _silver_ ring on the new IS primes. The Group 2 lenses got the golden one - the L got the red one.
So 50 1.8 IS will be the next choice - but there is no replacement for 85. I know, this isnt the topic here, but I think they might add a new lower f-stop 85 with IS instead of replacing the 85 1.8 one. Maybe 2.0, maybe 2.8...
I am very satisfied with the 35 IS - and I don't need a 50 - its to near to 35. I can crop a little bit and have it... the 35 IS is way "too" sharp, that a little crop is really a problem.
I want a 70mm  because 85 i also don't need, because I have the 100 L Macro...
(and then I will be a 17/35/70/100-guy.  )


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## switters (Jun 29, 2014)

I've been waiting quite a while for this lens. I was excited when the Sigma 50A came out, but after going through 3 copies of the 35A and still getting inconsistent AF, the reports of similar issues with the 50A kind of turned me off to it. I mostly shoot my young daughter at this point, and since she's always in motion, f/1.8 as a max aperture would be fine.


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## AlanF (Jun 29, 2014)

I have asked in the Review thread of the 35A whether people are still happy with the lens but with no reply. If other people are having problems with the 35A I'll give it a miss.


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## switters (Jun 29, 2014)

AlanF said:


> I have asked in the Review thread of the 35A whether people are still happy with the lens but with no reply. If other people are having problems with the 35A I'll give it a miss.



It's a fantastic lens in terms of IQ, but the focus is inconsistent (and can't be fixed with AFMA). At least in my case—I know others are happy.


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## ScottyP (Jul 1, 2014)

switters said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked in the Review thread of the 35A whether people are still happy with the lens but with no reply. If other people are having problems with the 35A I'll give it a miss.
> ...



I replied to his question in the reviews section that my copy is 7 months old, gets used 90% of the time when I am not shooting telephoto, it is insanely sharp and grabs focus wide open extremely reliably on the targeted eyes and eyelashes.


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## Sporgon (Jul 1, 2014)

As has been pointed out, the other three IS primes that have replaced the old non IS ones have not lost any speed, but then they were slower lenses than a 1.4, and I'm not sure if there are technical issues in featuring IS on such a fast lens. 

Agree with the point at top of page; wouldn't surprise me if it was '1.7' as a marketing differentiation, because we all know there is no (real) difference between 1.8 and 1.7.

Or will it be an f2 based upon a modified planar pancake design ( like the 40 pancake) but set deep into the 35 IS body to give room for the IS ? 

Either way I wish they'd hurry up 'cos I want the EBP to evaporate before I stick my hand is my very dusty wallet.


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