# The specifications for the upcoming Nikon Z 9 leak out ahead of the official announcement



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 11, 2021)

> Nikon is readying what can be assumed is their flagship professional mirrorless camera, the Nikon Z 9. An announcement for this camera is expected some time in the next couple of months.
> It looks like Nikon is going in a very different direction than Sony’s flagship Alpha 1, and Canon’s EOS R3. The EOS R3 is *NOT* going to be Canon’s flagship mirrorless camera, as I expect we’ll hear more about the Canon EOS R1 later in 2022.
> The Nikon Z 9 was in use at the Tokyo Olympics, but it looks like all EXIF data had been scrubbed from any images taken with the camera. This camera looks to be a true flagship professional mirrorless camera, over the toy that is the Sony Alpha 1.
> Nikon released a lackluster flagship DSLR in the Nikon D6, which didn’t offer much in the way of advancement from the previous Nikon D5. It looks like they put a lot of R&D dollars in the new Nikon Z 9 and other Z mount...



Continue reading...


----------



## ethanz (Aug 11, 2021)

"over the toy that is the Sony Alpha 1." 

You tell em!


----------



## addola (Aug 11, 2021)

Do you think the Canon R1 would feature an 8K capable sensor, i.e. +45 MP, to compete with the Nikon Z9 and that "toy camera" from Sony?


----------



## Jethro (Aug 11, 2021)

This is interesting because it gives a preview into what the R1 will actually be competing with. Features like a 'blackout free EVF' are real steps forward, and answer a lot of residual issues people have to moving to ML. And, yes, rumoured as 45mp, which I think most people are assuming to be a minimum for the R1.


----------



## VegasCameraGuy (Aug 11, 2021)

If the specs are true, it looks like the R3 will fall far behind the Z9. Hopefully, the R1 will be able to recover.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2021)

So basically an R3 with a 45mp sensor and dual CFast. While I would have liked both in the R3, I can live with the R3 specs, especially if it comes in under the Z9 in price.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Aug 11, 2021)

Z9 will probably have 18 months unchallenged before R1 makes an appearance. Specs looks fantastic and if it's $6K (which I doubt) that would be enough for me to entirely abandon Canon. I'm already commited to Sony and use a D500 but have a lot still of Canon glass still. Nikon won't be doing stupidly slow superteles either. Now I'm not ruling out Canon, but R3 whilst no doubt superb camera at only 24MP leaves me underwhelmed as a birder. I also prefer Sony and Nikon's lens line-up to Canon's. Also Nikon have PF lenses that are affordable and superb and rumours of more to come. Z9 + 500 PF will be awesome as I'll have the same reach as my D500, but with no doubt much better AF overall and D500 is already excellent. Nikon will also have next 400 f/2.8 and 600 f/4 that will no doubt be light like the Sony and Canon versions.

Trouble I see, like the R3, the Z9 will be almost impossible to buy for a long time. Pros will get priority and snap up the first allocation and I hate to be an early adopter.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> If the specs are true, it looks like the R3 will fall far behind the Z9. Hopefully, the R1 will be able to recover.


In the same way that the Z fc is far behind the R3, will Nikon ever recover........


----------



## jam05 (Aug 11, 2021)

pic said:


> If there's one thing that this announcement is going to do for me then it's to make me look much deeper into Nikon's offering before I commit to the RF system. [I'm deeply invested in the EF system]
> 
> In-body GPS receiver and 45MP: none of Canon's current nor announced gear hits both of these boxes. It's a bit sad as many, many years ago I picked Canon over Nikon based on what I perceived as color accuracy. I particularly disliked the "too much red" Nikon suffered from (back then). I've never considered any other brand since then. Yet going from EF to RF (without adapters) is so costly, that I should think really hard about it. And with adapters: well EF to Z adapters exist.


Most all high end cameras have gps. Pretty common and yes, the R5 is is already 45mp releleased in 2020. These Nikon flagship specs are merely catching up to the R5. Which the R5 and R3 are not.


----------



## jam05 (Aug 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> In the same way that the Z fc is far behind the R3, will Nikon ever
> 
> 
> jam05 said:
> ...


----------



## jam05 (Aug 11, 2021)

Good for Nikon. Reaching the bar set by the R5.


----------



## Kuau (Aug 11, 2021)

I would be all over the Z9 except for the fact as mentioned above this will be close to impossible to get one and then the Z Mount lens lineup is still missing the long primes. Yes they have all been announced yet the delivery maybe a longggggg wait. This is where Canon has the edge in availability. I still wish the R3 was 45mp


----------



## Czardoom (Aug 11, 2021)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> If the specs are true, it looks like the R3 will fall far behind the Z9. Hopefully, the R1 will be able to recover.


Funny how gear-heads look at specs and apparently don't actually care about how well those specs work. Nikon, Canon and Sony will all have 30 fps - but...will that be with AF set for each shot or just the 1st? How many fps with certain lenses? How well does the AF work - how many keepers out of those 30 shots? How well will tracking actually work - or will shooting in continuous mode give you better results than tracking as it does now for all the cameras? Can you set the camera to prioritize shots in focus for your bursts? Lots of questions will be asked for many of the other specs as well.

My guess is that - for most photographers - rather than gear-heads - it's much more about the lenses. If you can afford any of these flagship - or near flagship type cameras, their differences are so minor that it seems like complete foolishness to switch systems if you already have the lenses that you want. And if your system doesn't have the lenses you want (or can afford), then you will likely choose the camera system based on the lenses that will best suit your needs. 

If your results are "far behind" using the R3, Z9, A1 or any other top level camera, it's certainly not due to the camera. That's my opinion.


----------



## LSXPhotog (Aug 11, 2021)

Two things about this new rumor excite me.
1.) First and foremost, I’m excited for Nikon to actually not only catch up, but potentially surpass the competition. I’ve spoken with many of my Nikon shooting friends over the past couple years and their mirrorless offering DOES NOT seem to appeal to many of them, as none of the ones I’m friends with bought into it…and many of them even considered Canon. haha
2.) This means we are really going to see the R3 at the price point I actually think it’s going to fall into, $4500-5200. The breadcrumbs are there. The R3 is a competitor for the A9 ($4500) and not the A1. Canon has made that clear with their statements about it being placed below the 1DXIII and above the R5. So that tells me they do not intend to price the camera at the 1DX price. All these clowns online keep posting the price at $6000 to $6500 and I just don’t see that happening. Especially with the Z 9 now?!? Canon will be the laughing stock of the photo world if it prices a 24mp camera up against a 45- and 50-mp cameras…that’s not going to happen. But it might happen…it’s Canon. LOL


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> Two things about this new rumor excite me.
> 1.) First and foremost, I’m excited for Nikon to actually not only catch up, but potentially surpass the competition. I’ve spoken with many of my Nikon shooting friends over the past couple years and their mirrorless offering DOES NOT seem to appeal to many of them, as none of the ones I’m friends with bought into it…and many of them even considered Canon. haha
> 2.) This means we are really going to see the R3 at the price point I actually think it’s going to fall into, $4500-5200. The breadcrumbs are there. The R3 is a competitor for the A9 ($4500) and not the A1. Canon has made that clear with their statements about it being placed below the 1DXIII and above the R5. So that tells me they do not intend to price the camera at the 1DX price. All these clowns online keep posting the price at $6000 to $6500 and I just don’t see that happening. Especially with the Z 9 now?!? Canon will be the laughing stock of the photo world if it prices a 24mp camera up against a 45- and 50-mp cameras…that’s not going to happen. But it might happen…it’s Canon. LOL


Nikon have never failed to make great cameras, yes they have made some duds along the way too, but the D800 and D850 were class leading DSLR’s.

What they do seem to do is spend too much money and effort on diversions that don’t catch on, the 1 series was a dead end and the high end P&S they announced but never released just as the P&S market tanked were financial and resource drains, and they are comparatively slow to adopt the features that the market does want, I’m thinking FF DSLR’s in particular.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Aug 11, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Good for Nikon. Reaching the bar set by the R5.


So it will come with overheating and lock ups too?


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Aug 11, 2021)

The interesting thing though will be if Nikon finally catches up to Sony und Canon when it comes to autofocus. That might be the most important issue for sports shooters. In the past Nikon had some problems if a subject disappeared from the frame and then reappeared.


----------



## landon (Aug 11, 2021)

By the time the Z9 is available to purchase, the R1 will be available as well. The R3, 8k cine, R5c, C90?, RF cine primes will be in focus the next few months.


----------



## MoonMadness (Aug 11, 2021)

So as of now, what we know, once the R3 is released, it will be Canon's flagship...until the R1 comes out?


----------



## MoonMadness (Aug 11, 2021)

landon said:


> By the time the Z9 is available to purchase, the R1 will be available as well. The R3, 8k cine, R5c, C90?, RF cine primes will be in focus the next few months.


I don't think so. the Z9 prototype was already being used at the Olympics, but no R1. Only the R3 so far.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> So as of now, what we know, once the R3 is released, it will be Canon's flagship...until the R1 comes out?


That is not, however, what Canon themselves say. They say the 1DX III is the flagship until the R1, the R3 is marketed below the 1DX III.


----------



## Jordan23 (Aug 11, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Z9 will probably have 18 months unchallenged before R1 makes an appearance.


As far as we know the only major difference between Z9 and R3 is 45MP vs. 24MP, and that may or may not be important to the potential buyers. It's the AF-performance that will define these cameras, and AF will be compared to A1 and R5. I doubt Nikon will release Z9 without being confident it will match the AF-performance of the A1 and R5.



Mr Majestyk said:


> Nikon won't be doing stupidly slow superteles either.


It's all about options. Canon also has 400 f2.8 and 600 f4 for those with deep pockets. As for now Nikon only offers up to 200mm natively on the Z-mount.


----------



## Jordan23 (Aug 11, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> So it will come with overheating and lock ups too?


It might come with internal 10bit video


----------



## Joules (Aug 11, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> I don't think so. the Z9 prototype was already being used at the Olympics, but no R1. Only the R3 so far.


I think the comment meant that with the amount of production issues manufacturers have right now, the Z9 will only become properly available deep into 2022, at which point Canon will have spun up the hype machine they currently dedicate to the R3 for the R1.

If anything, I wonder if Nikon what Nikon knows about the R1 made them want to beat them in terms of release date so that they don't directly have to compete with it for a while. We don't know if global shutter and Quad Pixel AF are just wish list specs or if Canon plans to actually do something with their patents on this. If it is the latter, all the moaning about how inferior the (cheaper) R3 is to the Z9 will flip around in an instance once the R1 comes out.


----------



## csibra (Aug 11, 2021)

Canon is Doooomed. Doooomed is Canon.


----------



## Concombre Crétin (Aug 11, 2021)

‌
« This camera looks to be a true flagship professional mirrorless camera, over the toy that is the Sony Alpha 1. »

Noice !
‌


----------



## Traveler (Aug 11, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> "over the toy that is the Sony Alpha 1."


I wouldn’t expect that on this site…


----------



## Hector1970 (Aug 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That is not, however, what Canon themselves say. They say the 1DX III is the flagship until the R1, the R3 is marketed below the 1DX III.


Yes this is what Canon are saying but you wonder if it will be convincing if the R3 reviews well. Other than battery life it’s hard to say at the moment as to what you’d point to say the 1DXIII is the better model. I think it will give it an old fashioned out of date feel to the 1DX III. It will be interesting what the real world attitude will be and whether Canon struggle to continue to sell the 1DXIII without discounting (they may also reduce supply of the 1DX III).


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Aug 11, 2021)

landon said:


> By the time the Z9 is available to purchase, the R1 will be available as well. The R3, 8k cine, R5c, C90?, RF cine primes will be in focus the next few months.


Yeah Canon's magical supply chains will mean they will readily available from the get go.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Aug 11, 2021)

Jordan23 said:


> As far as we know the only major difference between Z9 and R3 is 45MP vs. 24MP, and that may or may not be important to the potential buyers. It's the AF-performance that will define these cameras, and AF will be compared to A1 and R5. I doubt Nikon will release Z9 without being confident it will match the AF-performance of the A1 and R5.
> 
> 
> It's all about options. Canon also has 400 f2.8 and 600 f4 for those with deep pockets. As for now Nikon only offers up to 200mm natively on the Z-mount.


With 100-400 S, 200-600 and 400 f/2.8 S and 600 f/4 S incoming. No f/11 abominations as part of the line-up or f/7.1 either. Nikon will no doubt release the superteles with the Z9 and you must have missed the fact they already have 400/ f/2.8 and 600 f/4 and Canon's so-called RF versions are just adapted EF lenses, so better than using the current Nikon's with an adapter.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 11, 2021)

£3000/£7000 saved up. I have had my pre pre order in for a wee while and expect this'll make my 500 PF and Z glass just jump up to a new level. Even just the MP jump and blackout free EVF is going to be huge. Got plans for a R5 when the tilt-shifts come out too. Always keep a toe in both camps cos you know someone will have a MP-E 65 and someone will have a 500 PF.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Aug 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Nikon have never failed to make great cameras, yes they have made some duds along the way too, but the D800 and D850 were class leading DSLR’s.


The D800/810 had really bad colors right out of camera, e.g. they turned mauve colors into cold blue impossible to recover - like the older 12 MP Nikons (I know what I am talking about). Ming Thein, a Nikon user, therefore loved the 5DSR for the fact, that he just could use the images right of the camera (https://blog.mingthein.com/2015/08/19/long-term-canon-5dsr/). With recent generations, Nikon engineers improved their color science much indeed, so the D850 is a really good camera. But this game is over, I guess.


----------



## miketcool (Aug 11, 2021)

The first professional digital camera I used was a Nikon D2X. The thing that made it potent was how quickly you could change settings while shooting. The controls were placed perfectly and the dual finger/thumb wheels really set the camera apart.

Good on Nikon!


----------



## Jordan23 (Aug 11, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> With 100-400 S, 200-600 and 400 f/2.8 S and 600 f/4 S incoming.


Incoming yes, as for now not released. Even though you dislike the f11 superteles they're cheap and available, and those who own them are taking wonderful photos with them. 


Mr Majestyk said:


> you must have missed the fact they already have 400/ f/2.8 and 600 f/4


 I'm comparing Z-mount teles to RF. Both Nikon and Canon has a wide selection of F and EF teles.


----------



## m4ndr4ke (Aug 11, 2021)

“Nikon is readying what can be assumed is their flagship professional mirrorless camera, the Nikon Z 9”

“The EOS R3 is *NOT* going to be Canon’s flagship mirrorless camera”

“over the toy that is the Sony Alpha 1”


Looks like someone was triggered…


Regardless of what Canon says, the price of the R3 will determine its position on the market. I mean, it might be very slightly more expensive than the alpha 1 (in reality it should be about the same price or lower), but it can’t be more expensive than the Z9.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Aug 11, 2021)

Reading this thread, there is one question popping up again in my mind: does the change from Canon to Sony to Nikon and maybe back to one of this list (if the specs of a new camera are too mouthwatering) improve anyone's photography? I doubt this, given the fact, that today's tech is so good that most probably the (non-pro) photographer himself may need some brainware upgrade, if he is not satisfied with his results (I stress the masculine gender, because according to my experience, women are less prone to GAS and more interested in improving their photographer's skills). But that's just my humble few cents here...


----------



## m4ndr4ke (Aug 11, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Reading this thread, there is one question popping up again in my mind: does the change from Canon to Sony to Nikon and maybe back to one of this list (if the specs of a new camera are too mouthwatering) improve anyone's photography? I doubt this, given the fact, that today's tech is so good that most probably the (non-pro) photographer himself may need some brainware upgrade, if he is not satisfied with his results (I stress the masculine gender, because according to my experience, women are less prone to GAS and more interested in improving their photographer's skills). But that's just my humble few cents here...


These cameras are aimed for the professionals, not for amateurs.

But, answering your question…yes, they improve our photography, but not as much as one would think. It’s not directly proportional, not by a long shot. Usually there’s a significant improvement on replacing entry level gear with better equipment, but in these scenarios…I guess you can expect that doubling your investment *may* give you a 10% overall improvement, if you learn how to use the new camera properly. Or maybe less than that.

But again, these are professional cameras, aimed at professional photographers.


----------



## AlanF (Aug 11, 2021)

m4ndr4ke said:


> These cameras are aimed for the professionals, not for amateurs.
> 
> But, answering your question…yes, they improve our photography, but not as much as one would think. It’s not directly proportional, not by a long shot. Usually there’s a significant improvement on replacing entry level gear with better equipment, but in these scenarios…I guess you can expect that doubling your investment *may* give you a 10% overall improvement, if you learn how to use the new camera properly. Or maybe less than that.
> 
> But again, these are professional cameras, aimed at professional photographers.


Enthusiasts with sufficiently deep pockets buy these high spec cameras in numbers - you can see them here and on Fred Miranda. You can't quantify in terms of percentage what improvements they make. What they often do is to extend the range of what you can do or enable you to do more easily what you could do only with difficulty in the past. Or simply increase the fraction of keepers. Sometimes, the improvements, like animal eyeAF for example, are quite dramatic.


----------



## Flamingtree (Aug 11, 2021)

If these specs are real then I am excited that Nikon have a point of difference.

A three horse race in the serious camera market is great for everyone. 

I hope the Z9 is seriously better than anything else in the market to push Canon and Sony to do even better.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 11, 2021)

Rooting for Nikon. In my opinion they make much better cameras overall than Sony who couldn't add a proper touchscreen interface to their cameras for years.


----------



## Charlie_B (Aug 11, 2021)

"the toy that is the Sony Alpha 1" It definitely isn't a toy


----------



## schaudi (Aug 11, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Reading this thread, there is one question popping up again in my mind: does the change from Canon to Sony to Nikon and maybe back to one of this list (if the specs of a new camera are too mouthwatering) improve anyone's photography? I doubt this, given the fact, that today's tech is so good that most probably the (non-pro) photographer himself may need some brainware upgrade, if he is not satisfied with his results (I stress the masculine gender, because according to my experience, women are less prone to GAS and more interested in improving their photographer's skills). But that's just my humble few cents here...


No, newer and better tech or switching brands doesn't necessarily result in better images. BUT it makes it easier for u to do the job u supposed to do or the result u want to achieve. 
Different ergonomics alone can make a huge difference, especially considering the amount and placement of buttons and other control elements. When shooting a wedding or a sporting or other live events – u don't get any second chance. u need to be able to control ur settings fast, without even thinking about them.

its the same with everything else. the *chance* of hitting the very perfect moment in a uncontrollable live situation is increasing dramatically with higher fps. 

So yes - in the end it is still the one behind the camera who needs needs to know what he ist doing, the picture still won't be good if u don't now how to expose or compose or whatever. But the tech can help u with making it easier and faster to work with which increases the chance of getting better shots, IF u did choose the right one for the job u want get done.


----------



## schaudi (Aug 11, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> With 100-400 S, 200-600 and 400 f/2.8 S and 600 f/4 S incoming. No f/11 abominations as part of the line-up or f/7.1 either. Nikon will no doubt release the superteles with the Z9 and you must have missed the fact they already have 400/ f/2.8 and 600 f/4 and Canon's so-called RF versions are just adapted EF lenses, so better than using the current Nikon's with an adapter.


what the hell? its not like canon is offering no options to those f/11 lenses. they are just a bonus for those who can't afford a small new car worth of glass. if u don't want them buy the expansive ones, which are available. no need to cry that canon has a option for consumers too. 

and btw. regarding the f/7.1 thing - if this is about the 100-500 - u still are at f/5.6 @ 400mm like with the 100-400 before, but just get extra reach as a bonus. nothing special but also nothing to constantly cry about.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 11, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> Jordan23's already said this, but what does the Z9 actually have the R3 doesn't, except for MP? And, I see maybe the majority of this forum arguing 24MP is actually better than 48MP let alone 96MP. (I think they're dead wrong but whatevs.)
> 
> *Arguably the Z9 isn't trying to beat the R1 to market, it's playing catch-up to the R3?*



It competes with the D6, 1DX3, and R3 just now. Because there is no R1 to compete with. The number of MP is just one (very small) aspect of the spec sheet.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> Yes this is what Canon are saying but you wonder if it will be convincing if the R3 reviews well. Other than battery life it’s hard to say at the moment as to what you’d point to say the 1DXIII is the better model. I think it will give it an old fashioned out of date feel to the 1DX III. It will be interesting what the real world attitude will be and whether Canon struggle to continue to sell the 1DXIII without discounting (they may also reduce supply of the 1DX III).


I think the point is more that the R3 is not a Z9 or A1 competitor. I have said before I think there is a realignment of what a flagship camera is, the modest mp preferred by the traditional flagship market is not where the latest flagships are going.

In essence the R3 is the spiritual successor to the 1 series with the form factor and lower mp, battery etc, but there is much Canon have on the horizon that smacks of much ‘better’ for their flagship. Quad pixel and global shutters are two big features that I’d expect to see on that flagship R1 and I suspect it will align mp wise much closer to the Z9 and A1 than the R3. More 1D (R3) and 1DS (R1), than 1DX.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> The D800/810 had really bad colors right out of camera, e.g. they turned mauve colors into cold blue impossible to recover - like the older 12 MP Nikons (I know what I am talking about). Ming Thein, a Nikon user, therefore loved the 5DSR for the fact, that he just could use the images right of the camera (https://blog.mingthein.com/2015/08/19/long-term-canon-5dsr/). With recent generations, Nikon engineers improved their color science much indeed, so the D850 is a really good camera. But this game is over, I guess.


Mauve/purple/indigo/violet are very difficult colors for Bayer array sensors to accurately replicate, not just the D800/810. Not suggesting they weren’t particularly difficult, but many cameras can’t take a picture of a rainbow past blue. 






I was a follower of Ming back then and he didn’t keep the 5DSr so the color issue wasn’t so serious to him, and Nikon didn’t have their PC-E 19 at the time and he loved the Canon TS-E17. Go figure....


----------



## rbielefeld (Aug 11, 2021)

Jordan23 said:


> Incoming yes, as for now not released. Even though you dislike the f11 superteles they're cheap and available, and those who own them are taking wonderful photos with them.
> 
> I'm comparing Z-mount teles to RF. Both Nikon and Canon has a wide selection of F and EF teles.


The Canon 800 f/11 is no abomination. It is an excellent lens with awesome AF performance and much less restrictive then you might think given it is f/11. Given the price point, compactness, and very low weight; it is an awesome offering from Canon.


----------



## rbielefeld (Aug 11, 2021)

What I find interesting is that the Z9 is being touted as Nikon's next sports centric camera body - "Nikon’s Z9 has concluded its testing at the Olympics and a new report has surfaced that promises some rather impressive specifications for Nikon’s forthcoming sports-focused camera, including a 45-megapixel sensor..." At the same time I keep hearing that sports photographers do not want 45 or 50mp; they want 20 or 24mp, thus the Canon R3 will be 24mp because it is being marketed to sports photographers. Seems Canon thinks differently then Nikon and Sony with regards to what sports photographers want/need.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 11, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> What I find interesting is that the Z9 is being touted as Nikon's next sports centric camera body - "Nikon’s Z9 has concluded its testing at the Olympics and a new report has surfaced that promises some rather impressive specifications for Nikon’s forthcoming sports-focused camera, including a 45-megapixel sensor..." At the same time I keep hearing that sports photographers do not want 45 or 50mp; they want 20 or 24mp, thus the Canon R3 will be 24mp because it is being marketed to sports photographers. Seems Canon thinks differently then Nikon and Sony with regards to what sports photographers want/need.



Canon has more to lose than Nikon and certainly more than Sony in the pro sports space. Personally I feel that 45 MP should come with 2.5 Gbps ethernet ports so that there is no slowdown to the workflow, but that requires huge changes to all the infrastructure and only affects tethered shooters. 45MP is purely to meet the 8k spec, but (unlike Canon?) Nikon bodies can shot smaller RAW files if need be and various forms of lossless and lossy RAW that negate the higher pixel count. Computers are also not markably faster and you can easily edit a 45MP image on a iPad and I very much look forward to doing that early next year with Capture One coming to iPad.


----------



## neurorx (Aug 11, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> Two things about this new rumor excite me.
> 1.) First and foremost, I’m excited for Nikon to actually not only catch up, but potentially surpass the competition. I’ve spoken with many of my Nikon shooting friends over the past couple years and their mirrorless offering DOES NOT seem to appeal to many of them, as none of the ones I’m friends with bought into it…and many of them even considered Canon. haha
> 2.) This means we are really going to see the R3 at the price point I actually think it’s going to fall into, $4500-5200. The breadcrumbs are there. The R3 is a competitor for the A9 ($4500) and not the A1. Canon has made that clear with their statements about it being placed below the 1DXIII and above the R5. So that tells me they do not intend to price the camera at the 1DX price. All these clowns online keep posting the price at $6000 to $6500 and I just don’t see that happening. Especially with the Z 9 now?!? Canon will be the laughing stock of the photo world if it prices a 24mp camera up against a 45- and 50-mp cameras…that’s not going to happen. But it might happen…it’s Canon. LOL


I agree, if the R3 comes in at 5999, it will be way overpriced but 5500 would still be a bit high, 5000 is more likely what is competitive if you are looking at comparing it to an a9ii with a battery grip.


----------



## neurorx (Aug 11, 2021)

Does anyone know how many megapixels a 6Mb Nikon (RAW?) file would be? I am not sure how to interpret the high fps with the file size.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

neurorx said:


> Does anyone know how many megapixels a 6Mb Nikon (RAW?) file would be? I am not sure how to interpret the high fps with the file size.


A 6mb RAW file would be about 8mp.


----------



## bellorusso (Aug 11, 2021)

Unlike Canon, Nikons knows at least that two CFExpress memory cards is better than having two different types of cards. Why Canon keeps forcing us two buy different types of media is beyond understanding. Angers me.


----------



## djack41 (Aug 11, 2021)

Looks like Nikon is firing all guns! Hope they can get production rolling soon. Canon needs to release the R1 soon. Right now, the 50 MP Sony A1 is top dog.


----------



## Del Paso (Aug 11, 2021)

A company which was able to develop and produce such a great camera as the Nikon F2 must survive !
Best camera ever along with the Leica M3 , Leicaflex SL and Canon F1 original.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 11, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> With 100-400 S, 200-600 and 400 f/2.8 S and 600 f/4 S incoming. No f/11 abominations as part of the line-up or f/7.1 either. Nikon will no doubt release the superteles with the Z9 and you must have missed the fact they already have 400/ f/2.8 and 600 f/4 and Canon's so-called RF versions are just adapted EF lenses, so better than using the current Nikon's with an adapter.


Sounds like someone needs a Snickers™


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 11, 2021)

Del Paso said:


> A company which was able to develop and produce such a great camera as the Nikon F2 must survive !
> Best camera ever along with the Leica M3 , Leicaflex SL and Canon F1 original.


Hey ! What about the Pentax Spotmatic ??


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 11, 2021)

bellorusso said:


> Unlike Canon, Nikons knows at least that two CFExpress memory cards is better than having two different types of cards. Why Canon keeps forcing us two buy different types of media is beyond understanding. Angers me.


Pleases me.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Aug 11, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> I don't think so. the Z9 prototype was already being used at the Olympics, but no R1. Only the R3 so far.


We can't know that for sure.
An R1 would just look like an R3 to us.
If the R1 is the same resolution as the R5 then any EXIF data would go unnoticed.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

bellorusso said:


> Unlike Canon, Nikons knows at least that two CFExpress memory cards is better than having two different types of cards. Why Canon keeps forcing us two buy different types of media is beyond understanding. Angers me.


I used to think like that, but in actual fact my real world card use suits a fast card and a ubiquitous card type combination much better than two fast and expensive specialist cards. So I am happy with the choice.

I’m sure the R1 will get two same type high end card slots So save your money and anxiety for that release.


----------



## entoman (Aug 11, 2021)

bellorusso said:


> Unlike Canon, Nikons knows at least that two CFExpress memory cards is better than having two different types of cards. Why Canon keeps forcing us two buy different types of media is beyond understanding. Angers me.


Personally I'm happy with a CFE and SD in my R5, as I shoot RAW stills to the CFE and JPEG backups to the SD. But if I wanted to shoot duplicate backup RAWs to the other slot, I'd rather have twin CFEs, in order to maintain maximum burst speeds.

It's a difficult one for Canon - CFE cards are extremely expensive, so if they'd put twin CFE's in, the cost of cards would probably have put many people off purchasing the R5. On the other hand, if they'd put twin SD slots, it would possibly prevent shooting in 8K for more than a few seconds, and would have made the overheating issues even worse (as most of the heat is generated by the cards, from what I've read).

Again, personally, I would rather that they'd left out 8K which I don't want or need, and just made the R5 a stills-orientated camera with 2 SD slots. But that's just me, Canon clearly wanted to have a camera with the highest specifications they could manage, to answer criticism that they've lagged behind Sony and Nikon for a while.


----------



## mpmark (Aug 11, 2021)

I don’t honestly know what you guys are missing, I’m using an R5 with a EF 500II and it kicks ass all day long for my wildlife.

It seems people love to chase the never camera they wish existed lol


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Aug 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’m sure the R1 will get two same type high end card slots So save your money and anxiety for that release.


I would just like to remind everyone who thinks Canon plans to release the R1 for the Winter Games that Beijing 2022 is this coming winter. 
People keep talking like it is so far away.
We also do not expect the Z9 to be released very much before that.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Aug 11, 2021)

The exact pixel resolution makes it seem like Nikon Rumors has seen the EXIF data but that does not mean they have actually seen the camera.
I do not believe for a second that the Z9 screen can articulate like the S1H.


vs


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I would just like to remind everyone who thinks Canon plans to release the R1 for the Winter Games that Beijing 2022 is this coming winter.
> People keep talking like it is so far away.
> We also do not expect the Z9 to be released very much before that.


I said earlier the three 1DS models were released basically a year after the same generation 1D model so I’d think that was a company structure ‘thing’. If so it makes sense that the same structure would result in a one year (approx) gap between the R3 and the R1. Which has pre release R1 models at those 2022 Winter Olympics.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> The exact pixel resolution makes it seem like Nikon Rumors has seen the EXIF data but that does not mean they have actually seen the camera.
> I do not believe for a second that the Z9 screen can articulate like the S1H.
> View attachment 199517
> 
> ...


But the photos of the Z9 from the back have all been taped around the screen hiding what type of movement, if any, the screen has.

Personally I think it is a hinge style rather than the rotate and swivel style.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2021)

Funny how everyone whining about the R3 being "behind" Sony and Nikon offerings seems to forget that the R3 is offering eye-control autofocus, which may be the most revolutionary spec of all.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Aug 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> But the photos of the Z9 from the back have all been taped around the screen hiding what type of movement, if any, the screen has.
> 
> Personally I think it is a hinge style rather than the rotate and swivel style.


There is not enough room under that tape for such a hinge.
I am sure it won't be fixed like the 1DX or there would be no need for the tape at all.
It is not like these cameras are easy to break.

*Unrelated: If Nikon did not want the Z9 to be spotted they would have taped over the Nikon logo.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> There is not enough room under that tape for such a hinge.
> I am sure it won't be fixed like the 1DX or there would be no need for the tape at all.
> It is not like these cameras are easy to break.


Sure there is, I’m thinking like the GFX 100. A more refined version than this and it has a bigger gap at the bottom like the tape does on the Nikon.


----------



## degos (Aug 11, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Funny how everyone whining about the R3 being "behind" Sony and Nikon offerings seems to forget that the R3 is offering eye-control autofocus, which may be the most revolutionary spec of all.



I'll wait to see how practical it is. Imagine focusing on a player and then watching the edge of frame for the ball coming to him.. what will eye-control AF do?


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Aug 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Sure there is, I’m thinking like the GFX 100. A more refined version than this and it has a bigger gap at the bottom like the tape does on the Nikon.
> 
> View attachment 199519


GFX100 articulates differently than the S1H.


----------



## Skux (Aug 11, 2021)

"The R1 will beat it."

Lol there will be no R1, not for years. The R3 was meant to be that camera until they saw everyone else putting 45mp sensors on 30fps cameras.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> GFX100 articulates differently than the S1H.
> View attachment 199520


Yes, and from a photo orientated perspective I much prefer it to the type Canon use most often, the rotate and swivel.

The GXF100 tilts out at the bottom and the top too.


----------



## neurorx (Aug 11, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> A 6mb RAW file would be about 8mp.


Thank you. That's less impressive. I do wonder how long an R1 will be 2022 late? 2023? Given the A1 and Z9 are are 2021 products.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2021)

Skux said:


> "The R1 will beat it."
> 
> Lol there will be no R1, not for years. The R3 was meant to be that camera until they saw everyone else putting 45mp sensors on 30fps cameras.


Sure, sure. Corporations have absolutely no idea what their competitors are up to, ever. Canon was totally surprised, and knew nothing about the Z9 before details leaked on NikonRumors. LOL.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2021)

degos said:


> I'll wait to see how practical it is. Imagine focusing on a player and then watching the edge of frame for the ball coming to him.. what will eye-control AF do?


Like most technology, I expect it will deliver less than advertised, but if it gets you a head start on refocusing (say going from first base to center field) it will be a big help. Only time will tell. My main point though is that people obsess over small differences on some specs and then completely gloss over others because they don't fit into their story lines.


----------



## Czardoom (Aug 11, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Looks like Nikon is firing all guns! Hope they can get production rolling soon. Canon needs to release the R1 soon. Right now, the 50 MP Sony A1 is top dog.


Top dog? You mean for being overpriced? 

Those you are considering MPs to be the one and only spec that matters - go ahead and get your A1. Those that think the R3 needs to priced below the A1 since it has less MPs should consider all the reasons that the R3 will be considered a pro level camera and the A1 will not (probably the basis for the "toy" comment). The R3 will have the integrated grip, will be much more durably built, will no doubt have better weather sealing. Making cameras that are made to withstand pretty much any type of impact and any type of weather increases the cost - and makes it worth spending that money if one needs or wants a pro level camera. Comparing cameras by their MP count only is for spec lovers - not photographers, in my opinion.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2021)

neurorx said:


> Thank you. That's less impressive. I do wonder how long an R1 will be 2022 late? 2023? Given the A1 and Z9 are are 2021 products.


So look at it from a corporate view point. Nobody but Canon have a body in the R3 space, vs, how large is the R1/A1/Z9 market? Because once Canon are in it it will be divided by three.


----------



## Jethro (Aug 11, 2021)

neurorx said:


> Thank you. That's less impressive. I do wonder how long an R1 will be 2022 late? 2023? Given the A1 and Z9 are are 2021 products.


Well, the Z9 isn't even officially announced yet, let alone released - it will be a '2022 product' in any meaningful sense. I agree with comments earlier that the R1 will likely (important word there) get its field testing at the Winter Olympics next year, similar to the R3 in Tokyo this year - with release announcement after that (ie late 2022).


----------



## Pixel (Aug 12, 2021)

landon said:


> By the time the Z9 is available to purchase, the R1 will be available as well. The R3, 8k cine, R5c, C90?, RF cine primes will be in focus the next few months.


Wishful thinking but not happening.


----------



## djack41 (Aug 12, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Top dog? You mean for being overpriced?
> 
> Those you are considering MPs to be the one and only spec that matters - go ahead and get your A1. Those that think the R3 needs to priced below the A1 since it has less MPs should consider all the reasons that the R3 will be considered a pro level camera and the A1 will not (probably the basis for the "toy" comment). The R3 will have the integrated grip, will be much more durably built, will no doubt have better weather sealing. Making cameras that are made to withstand pretty much any type of impact and any type of weather increases the cost - and makes it worth spending that money if one needs or wants a pro level camera. Comparing cameras by their MP count only is for spec lovers - not photographers, in my opinion.





Czardoom said:


> Top dog? You mean for being overpriced?
> 
> Those you are considering MPs to be the one and only spec that matters - go ahead and get your A1. Those that think the R3 needs to priced below the A1 since it has less MPs should consider all the reasons that the R3 will be considered a pro level camera and the A1 will not (probably the basis for the "toy" comment). The R3 will have the integrated grip, will be much more durably built, will no doubt have better weather sealing. Making cameras that are made to withstand pretty much any type of impact and any type of weather increases the cost - and makes it worth spending that money if one needs or wants a pro level camera. Comparing cameras by their MP count only is for spec lovers - not photographers, in my opinion.


Hmmm....Guess MP isn't important to landscape, portrait, wildlife, or travel photographers. Sony bundled a camera with excellent weather sealing, 50 MP, 30 FPS, super AF, fantastic ISO performance, big buffer etc. Wish I had such a "toy"......but that stuff is for spec lovers, not photographers. lol


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Hmmm....Guess MP isn't important to landscape, portrait, wildlife, or travel photographers. Sony bundled a camera with excellent weather sealing, 50 MP, 30 FPS, super AF, fantastic ISO performance, big buffer etc. Wish I had such a "toy"......but that stuff is for spec lovers, not photographers. lol


And what does the A1 do that is $2,599 better than an R5? Sure it’s a good camera, but $6,498 worth?


----------



## drhuffman87 (Aug 12, 2021)

Is car auto focus basically eye-detection auto focus for headlights?


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2021)

drhuffman87 said:


> Is car auto focus basically eye-detection auto focus for headlights?


I hope not, that would mean the windshield, or more importantly the driver, could well be out of focus.


----------



## drhuffman87 (Aug 12, 2021)

That's what I was just thinking about haha. Perhaps it's more of a tracking mode that is keen on tracking the windshield or a specific body panel. Or maybe it will continuously focus during a slow shutter speed while panning.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Hmmm....Guess MP isn't important to landscape, portrait, wildlife, or travel photographers. Sony bundled a camera with excellent weather sealing, 50 MP, 30 FPS, super AF, fantastic ISO performance, big buffer etc. Wish I had such a "toy"......but that stuff is for spec lovers, not photographers. lol


I shoot landscapes, portraits, wildlife, and travel. I print up to 40” wide, as well as the typical digital modes of sharing images.

The only time I could potentially use more than the 18 MP of my 1D X is when the wildlife is distant birds and my 600/4 + 2xTC requires deep cropping. Even then, the distance is usually sufficiently great that atmospheric distortion is causing a loss of IQ. With 18 MP, I pretty much always need to downsample anyway. 

It’s not that MP aren’t important, it’s just that there’s a point where more MP aren’t practically useful. For me, 20-30 MP are ample.

If you’re one of those people who likes to look at images 1:1 to oooh and ahhh over pixel-level detail, I’m sure you’d prefer the Sony. But in fact, you’d get even more pixel-level detail with a Canon M6 II or 90D.


----------



## jprusa (Aug 12, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Hmmm....Guess MP isn't important to landscape, portrait, wildlife, or travel photographers. Sony bundled a camera with excellent weather sealing, 50 MP, 30 FPS, super AF, fantastic ISO performance, big buffer etc. Wish I had such a "toy"......but that stuff is for spec lovers, not photographers. lol


Why waste your time on 50 when you can get 61 for about half the price, hell you can buy two one to use and one to lose .


----------



## AlanF (Aug 12, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> The only time I could potentially use more than the 18 MP of my 1D X is when the wildlife is distant birds and my 600/4 + 2xTC requires deep cropping..


That and small birds at 10-20m and dragonflies and butterflies at 3-4m (closer than the mfd of the 600/4.0) are precisely where I dwell. So, we can get on really well not fighting each other in back order shortages and not stealing each other’s gear on hikes.


----------



## InchMetric (Aug 12, 2021)

pic said:


> If there's one thing that this announcement is going to do for me then it's to make me look much deeper into Nikon's offering before I commit to the RF system. [I'm deeply invested in the EF system





Jordan23 said:


> It's all about options. Canon also has 400 f2.8 and 600 f4 for those with deep pockets. As for now Nikon only offers up to 200mm natively on the Z-mount.


I switched from Nikon Z to Canon RF because it was clear that the Canon lens lineup would be vastly superior to Nikon. The 70-200 options sealed the deal.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 12, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> I switched from Nikon Z to Canon RF because it was clear that the Canon lens lineup would be vastly superior to Nikon. The 70-200 options sealed the deal.



That depends on what you are doing. The Z 70-200 f/2.8 is markably more useful to me than the Canon since it takes the 1.4X TC without any loss in IQ and AF speed that I can notice. If you want the most compact 70-200 and will just use it as a 70-200 then I agree the Canon one is better. But I wouldn't say any has a vastly superior lens lineup, at the very least with Nikon we have a public roadmap. With Canon I don't know when 'my' lens(es) are expected or if they are expected at all.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> With Canon I don't know when 'my' lens(es) are expected or if they are expected at all.


I haven’t followed Nikon’s lineup as I’m not interested in switching systems. Canon has the f/2.8 and f/4 ‘trinities’, the 109-500, a macro lens, and fast portrait primes. IMO, those are the basics for a FF system. The superteles (although not really native) and the 28-70/2 are nice niche lenses.

Meanwhile, adapted lenses work just fine. For some of ‘my’ lenses adapting them is better – much easier to use the drop-in filter adapter than a front filter on my TS-E 17 and 11-24.


----------



## degos (Aug 12, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I haven’t followed Nikon’s lineup as I’m not interested in switching systems.



But basically you have switched systems. Even the RAW standard is new.

The only carry-through is the logo and batteries.


----------



## John Wilde (Aug 12, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Funny how everyone whining about the R3 being "behind" Sony and Nikon offerings seems to forget that the R3 is offering eye-control autofocus, which may be the most revolutionary spec of all.


My vague recollection is that Jeff Cable said the R3 has additional undisclosed features too.


----------



## John Wilde (Aug 12, 2021)

Since the Z9 is a flagship, and the R3 isn't, the Z9 will probably be priced significantly higher than the R3.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2021)

degos said:


> But basically you have switched systems. Even the RAW standard is new.
> 
> The only carry-through is the logo and batteries.


Shhhh…please don’t tell my EF-mount lenses —12 of them ranging from 11 to 600mm— that I’m ‘switching’. They think they’re coming with me. Oh, wait…they are. With added functionality for some, as mentioned. 

Somehow I think my four 600EX flashes and my ST-E3-RT will work fine with my ‘new system’, as will the MT-24 EX twin flash that mounts on my 100 L and MP-E 65 1-5x macro lenses that won’t know I’m ‘switching’ unless you tell them. So…shhhhhh.

Amazingly, things like the menu systems and zoom directions will be the same in this ‘new system’.

But sure…I’m ‘switching’.


----------



## neurorx (Aug 12, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> So look at it from a corporate view point. Nobody but Canon have a body in the R3 space, vs, how large is the R1/A1/Z9 market? Because once Canon are in it it will be divided by three.


Wouldnt the a9ii be the R3 competitor? Albiet the a9ii is going to be a bit dated given its similarity to the a9 in sensor tech and most of the other specifications.


----------



## neurorx (Aug 12, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Hmmm....Guess MP isn't important to landscape, portrait, wildlife, or travel photographers. Sony bundled a camera with excellent weather sealing, 50 MP, 30 FPS, super AF, fantastic ISO performance, big buffer etc. Wish I had such a "toy"......but that stuff is for spec lovers, not photographers. lol


I guess for me the MP is part of the equation. I cant shoot performances with a huge lens. I do appreciate the ability to crop and want the speed and low light performance. The other features would mentioned with the R3 are nice, but are icing on the cake.


----------



## jam05 (Aug 13, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> So as of now, what we know, once the R3 is released, it will be Canon's flagship...until the R1 comes out?


Canon has already stated at naseum that the R3 is NOT it's flagship. Period. It's a new line.


----------



## SNJ Ops (Aug 13, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I used to think like that, but in actual fact my real world card use suits a fast card and a ubiquitous card type combination much better than two fast and expensive specialist cards. So I am happy with the choice.
> 
> I’m sure the R1 will get two same type high end card slots So save your money and anxiety for that release.


Or just do what Sony did for the A7SIII and A1 and offer dual hybrid card slots. 1 side of each slot takes SD cards, the other side takes CF express type A.

Canon could do the same and offer SD and CFX type B hybrid slots.


----------



## SNJ Ops (Aug 13, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Top dog? You mean for being overpriced?
> 
> Those you are considering MPs to be the one and only spec that matters - go ahead and get your A1. Those that think the R3 needs to priced below the A1 since it has less MPs should consider all the reasons that the R3 will be considered a pro level camera and the A1 will not (probably the basis for the "toy" comment). The R3 will have the integrated grip, will be much more durably built, will no doubt have better weather sealing. Making cameras that are made to withstand pretty much any type of impact and any type of weather increases the cost - and makes it worth spending that money if one needs or wants a pro level camera. Comparing cameras by their MP count only is for spec lovers - not photographers, in my opinion.


The A1 is aimed at a wide range of use cases and users. Its a far far more versatile and much much higher spec camera than Canon’s 1DX MKIII which costs the same yet some say the A1 is overpriced.

This idea that a pro camera needs to have a built in grip is absolute nonsense. Are Product, Press , Wedding, Fashion, Family, Portrait, Property, Landscape and Commercial Photographers not professionals too? They may not have any need or want for a larger camera at all.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Aug 13, 2021)

m4ndr4ke said:


> But again, these are professional cameras, aimed at professional photographers.


I know some pro photographers, and I, being an amateur (but a science journalist), published some of my wildlife images e.g. in a leading German newspaper (https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/...und-anderen-fliegenden-fischern-16778607.html). So, of course, I am fully aware of that topic, but the pros I know don't spend any time for posting in photography gear threads. I guess here, like me, mostly skilled amateurs are posting. Btw digital photography improved my analogue photography with vintage cameras simply because I could play and check the results immediately. So it is going in opposite direction in my personal case 

Don't misunderstand me, I am not anti new gear, otherwise I wouldn't be on Canonrumors, I appreciate it is existing (Canon: were's a decend R7?). But you do not always need the latest gear to get better results. Really skilled photographers can even with toy cameras create interesting images, I remember the funny and very inspiring series about that on "digital rev tv" ...


----------



## AlanF (Aug 13, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> I know some pro photographers, and I, being an amateur (but a science journalist), published some of my wildlife images e.g. in a leading German newspaper (https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/...und-anderen-fliegenden-fischern-16778607.html). So, of course, I am fully aware of that topic, but the pros I know don't spend any time for posting in photography gear threads. I guess here, like me, mostly skilled amateurs are posting. Btw digital photography improved my analogue photography with vintage cameras simply because I could play and check the results immediately. So it is going in opposite direction in my personal case
> 
> Don't misunderstand me, I am not anti new gear, otherwise I wouldn't be on Canonrumors, I appreciate it is existing (Canon: were's a decend R7?). But you do not always need the latest gear to get better results. Really skilled photographers can even with toy cameras create interesting images, I remember the funny and very inspiring series about that on "digital rev tv" ...


A nice article with some great photos. It would be much appreciated if you post some here. By the way, Terns are now missing from Inner Farne as our National Trust failed to maintain their habitat during the covid period and it became too overgrown for them.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 13, 2021)

SNJ Ops said:


> This idea that a pro camera needs to have a built in grip is absolute nonsense. Are Product, Press , Wedding, Fashion, Family, Portrait, Property, ………… Photographers not professionals too? They may not have any need or want for a larger camera at all.


I’d just point out that in some of those areas of photography that you mention togs are often using relatively heavy lenses and flash. Without being able to get a proper full grip on the body the camera is constantly trying to tip forwards in your hand and thus becomes a bit of a strain after a while. But I agree, a body doesn’t have to have an built in grip to be “professional”.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> I’d just point out that in some of those areas of photography that you mention togs are often using relatively heavy lenses and flash. Without being able to get a proper full grip on the body the camera is constantly trying to tip forwards in your hand and thus becomes a bit of a strain after a while. But I agree, a body doesn’t have to have an built in grip to be “professional”.


That’s the reason I far prefer the integrated grip – after a day of shooting with a non-gripped body and one of my typical lenses (24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8) my hand is sore. With a gripped body, that doesn’t happen. But I also shoot frequently with a tripod, generally with wide or TS-E lenses where there’s no collar, and an add-on grip adds flex/vibration.


----------



## MoonMadness (Aug 13, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Canon has already stated at naseum that the R3 is NOT it's flagship. Period. It's a new line.


Fine, someone else already answered pretty much the same. But, regardless of what Canon stated about what is and is not their flagship camera, what do you people think is their flagship camera, based upon what we do know about the R3? I'm asking in regard to all currently released Canon cameras as well as the R3 (but not the R1). I would think it'd be the R3.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> Fine, someone else already answered pretty much the same. But, regardless of what Canon stated about what is and is not their flagship camera, what do you people think is their flagship camera, based upon what we do know about the R3? I'm asking in regard to all currently released Canon cameras as well as the R3 (but not the R1). I would think it'd be the R3.


The 1D X III.

Why do you assume the flagship must be a MILC? Keep in mind that DSLRs comprise 44% of the ILC market, and that the Canon native lens selection for FF DSLRs comprises double the number of native RF lenses.


----------



## john1970 (Aug 13, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> My vague recollection is that Jeff Cable said the R3 has additional undisclosed features too.


You are indeed correct. 

Jeff's Post from July 1st states "There are all kinds of new features (that have yet to be disclosed to the public), but the camera is distinctly Canon, which makes it easy to pick up and start shooting with. It is like upgrading from a familiar car to a new model with all the buttons and dials where we expect them, but with more horse power and better handling."


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 13, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> But I also shoot frequently with a tripod, generally with wide or TS-E lenses where there’s no collar, and an add-on grip adds flex/vibration.


There is no doubt that the degree of flex in the battery grip/ body combo is substantial and when mounted on a heavy tripod is quite disconcerting. This wasn’t the case with the film 1 series bodies where to fit the battery grip the whole of the front grip came off and the grip incorporated in the ‘battery grip’ fitted up inside the camera via a cone shaped male female arrangement. Bottom was fixed via tripod socket in the traditional way. This gave a totally flex-free mounting and was far superior to what we have now.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 13, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> I don't have an opinion on whether the Nikon screen articulates and don't actually care either.
> 
> Just saying, there's plausibly black tape along all four edges of that screen, in a manner seemingly calculated to hide its articulability...



It is supposedly a new mechanism, perhaps one that has the pros of the flip out screen that can also go into portrait mode. Hopefully not fully articulating.


----------



## MoonMadness (Aug 13, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> The 1D X III.
> 
> Why do you assume the flagship must be a MILC? Keep in mind that DSLRs comprise 44% of the ILC market, and that the Canon native lens selection for FF DSLRs comprises double the number of native RF lenses.


Why do you assume I assume that "the flagship MUST be a MILC? "


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> Why do you assume I assume that "the flagship MUST be a MILC? "


Mainly because you asked what the flagship could be, and then suggested the R3 is Canon’s flagship, despite Canon having stated that their flagship is the 1D X III.

The R3 is not a 1-series. Done.


----------



## MoonMadness (Aug 14, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Mainly because you asked what the flagship could be, and then suggested the R3 is Canon’s flagship, despite Canon having stated that their flagship is the 1D X III.
> 
> The R3 is not a 1-series. Done.


Strange how you came to that conclusion. I never said anything about the Canon flagship needing to be a "MILC". Having a mirror or not, there are other features in the R3 that the 1DXiii that I feel would deserve it to be more of a flagship. I'm asking people which one they, themselves, "feel" it to be, if they were to ignore what Canon says it is. But you keeping bringing up what Canon says is their flagship, which I agree with you in that is what Canon says, but that's not what I am asking individual people.


----------



## Jethro (Aug 14, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> Strange how you came to that conclusion. I never said anything about the Canon flagship needing to be a "MILC". Having a mirror or not, there are other features in the R3 that the 1DXiii that I feel would deserve it to be more of a flagship. I'm asking people which one they, themselves, "feel" it to be, if they were to ignore what Canon says it is. But you keeping bringing up what Canon says is their flagship, which I agree with you in that is what Canon says, but that's not what I am asking individual people.


And individual people can only answer based upon what they know. Along with some detailed specs (but not all), what we 'know' is that the intended place for the R3 in the line-up will be behind the 1DXiii, because Canon says so. Once they release the full spces, we'll all be in a better position to see what it's niche is meant to be. But given how closely Canon work with their 1DX users (and by that I mean: very closely indeed), if they are saying the 1DXiii remains the top of the tree, then I'm thinking that is what it will be (until the R1 comes along).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 14, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> Strange how you came to that conclusion. I never said anything about the Canon flagship needing to be a "MILC". Having a mirror or not, there are other features in the R3 that the 1DXiii that I feel would deserve it to be more of a flagship. I'm asking people which one they, themselves, "feel" it to be, if they were to ignore what Canon says it is. But you keeping bringing up what Canon says is their flagship, which I agree with you in that is what Canon says, but that's not what I am asking individual people.


Apologies, you said nothing about it needing to be a MILC, that was an incorrect assumption on my part. 

‘Flagship product’ is the highest profile or most expensive, and that describes the 1D X III, not the R3. People can ‘feel’ whatever they want. The manufacturer gets to designate their flagship, and Canon has done so.

If someone wants to believe the R5 is the flagship because more MP make it deserving, or the M6 II is the flagship because a higher pixel density makes it deserving, that’s fine. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, even if it’s wrong.


----------



## jam05 (Aug 14, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> So it will come with overheating and lock ups too?


----------



## jam05 (Aug 14, 2021)

8k 60 All I is the bar. At $7000 to pay for the Sony sensor inside as usual they had to tame the high end video resolution. And of course it won't have 8k 60 but a limited 8k 30. Coming to the dance a year later doesn't get any kudos for innovation. Any competent engineer can copy and improve. The Sony A1 is the camera released with EVF blackouts for 4 months. We'll see what problems the Nikon comes with.


----------



## Hector1970 (Aug 14, 2021)

MoonMadness said:


> Fine, someone else already answered pretty much the same. But, regardless of what Canon stated about what is and is not their flagship camera, what do you people think is their flagship camera, based upon what we do know about the R3? I'm asking in regard to all currently released Canon cameras as well as the R3 (but not the R1). I would think it'd be the R3.


I'd agree. Canon of course will be saying the R3 is not their flagship camera but generally speaking flagship is taken as a companies finest product. I can't see camera customers continuing to believe the 1DXIII is Canon's flagship camera. It won't have Canon's best sensor, FPS rate, Dynamic Range, Focusing system, weight (in a 1 Series). It will be "old" mirrored technology whose only advantage will be battery life and mechanical shutter FPS. I'm sure Canon will keep that charade up until they release an R1 to keep the 1DXIII selling. I own a 1DX III and its a fine camera but its time in the sun as being the best is over, its perhaps the last great mirrored camera.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Aug 14, 2021)

jam05 said:


> 8k 60 All I is the bar. At $7000 to pay for the Sony sensor inside as usual they had to tame the high end video resolution. And of course it won't have 8k 60 but a limited 8k 30. Coming to the dance a year later doesn't get any kudos for innovation. Any competent engineer can copy and improve. The Sony A1 is the camera released with EVF blackouts for 4 months. We'll see what problems the Nikon comes with.



The Nikon Z9 has a 45MP stacked sensor, the A1 has a 50MP stacked sensor. It is not confirmed who is manufacturing the sensor yet and it could be Sony (Sony's camera devision are also a customer of the sensor division and Sony is likely a customer of Nikon for lithography equipment), Tower, or even fricken Canon. Not fabricating every component does not make it any less of a Nikon. They'll be non-Canon tech in the R3 and R5 too and that doesn't make them less Canon.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 15, 2021)

jam05 said:


> 8k 60 All I is the bar. At $7000 to pay for the Sony sensor inside as usual they had to tame the high end video resolution. And of course it won't have 8k 60 but a limited 8k 30. Coming to the dance a year later doesn't get any kudos for innovation. Any competent engineer can copy and improve. The Sony A1 is the camera released with EVF blackouts for 4 months. We'll see what problems the Nikon comes with.



Where can the Sony A1 do 8K 60p? That's crazy amount of data to move around.


----------



## Pixel (Aug 15, 2021)

Now Nikon is coming out with a 400 2.8 + 1.4x. 
We’re getting out-innovated, folks. Canon just wants to sit at the top of the mountain and do nothing and hope the R5/R6’s keep selling forever. 








The next two lenses to be announced by Nikon are... - Nikon Rumors


The next two lenses rumored to be announced by Nikon are: Nikkor Z f/1.2 lens To be announced in the next few months. Nikkor Z 400mm f/2.8 lens The new Nikkor Z 400mm f/2.8 lens will have a built-in 1.4x converter just like the NIKKOR 180-400mm f/4E TC1.4 FL ED VR lens (with the TC […]




nikonrumors.com


----------



## AlanF (Aug 15, 2021)

Pixel said:


> Now Nikon is coming out with a 400 2.8 + 1.4x.
> We’re getting out-innovated, folks. Canon just wants to sit at the top of the mountain and do nothing and hope the R5/R6’s keep selling forever.
> 
> 
> ...


If the built-in 1.4xTC is anything like the one on their 180-400 f/4, it will be a disaster. So let's hope they have learned their lessom.





Nikon Nikkor AF-S 180-400 mm f/4E TC1.4 FL ED VR review - Introduction - LensTip.com


Best digital cameras and lens reviews. If you are looking for the information about digital cameras and lenses you are in a right place. We have many professional tests of digital photography equipment.




www.lenstip.com


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2021)

Pixel said:


> Now Nikon is coming out with a 400 2.8 + 1.4x.
> We’re getting out-innovated, folks. Canon just wants to sit at the top of the mountain and do nothing and hope the R5/R6’s keep selling forever.


I wonder if the new Nikon 400/2.8 will use fluorite? I like how for years they bashed Canon’s innovation as susceptible to thermal shock and cracking…then they started using it themselves (in camera lenses, they’d actually used fluorite in microscope objectives all along).


----------



## FrenchFry (Aug 15, 2021)

Pixel said:


> Now Nikon is coming out with a 400 2.8 + 1.4x.
> We’re getting out-innovated, folks. Canon just wants to sit at the top of the mountain and do nothing and hope the R5/R6’s keep selling forever.
> 
> 
> ...


If this lens is made small and "light" like the latest Canon and also accepts external teleconverters, it will be an incredibly versatile wildlife lens.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Aug 17, 2021)

AlanF said:


> A nice article with some great photos. It would be much appreciated if you post some here. By the way, Terns are now missing from Inner Farne as our National Trust failed to maintain their habitat during the covid period and it became too overgrown for them.


Late reply, since I am really busy (IPCC etc): thank you, Alan . I am a bit lazy with showing my images...

And I am very sorry that the terns left Inner Farme! Hope they'll return again. My fav cap still has marks of their acidic sh (beep) t.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Aug 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I wonder if the new Nikon 400/2.8 will use fluorite? I like how for years they bashed Canon’s innovation as susceptible to thermal shock and cracking…then they started using it themselves (in camera lenses, they’d actually used fluorite in microscope objectives all along).


Here is my EF 500mm f/4.5 L USM which contains fluorite glass: made in 1995, survived several crashs, sandstorms, salt water spray, heavy rain - and still works flawlessly...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Here is my EF 500mm f/4.5 L USM which contains fluorite glass: made in 1995, survived several crashs, sandstorms, salt water spray, heavy rain - and still works flawlessly...
> 
> View attachment 199641


That's all fine, but you cannot use it in full sun or the fluorite will crack, or so Nikon implied. But then they went and put fluorite into their black-painted lenses. And tout it's benefits. Gotta love marketeers.


----------



## AlanF (Aug 17, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> That's all fine, but you cannot use it in full sun or the fluorite will crack, or so Nikon implied. But then they went and put fluorite into their black-painted lenses. And tout it's benefits. Gotta love marketeers.


Black Marketeers!


----------



## talkin73 (Aug 18, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Good for Nikon. Reaching the bar set by the R5.


Do you mean the 45mp bar? I’m an R5 user and like many things about it. But, I suspect for most users the Z9’s stacked sensor, blackout free EVF, FPS, and GPS are likely to have a far greater impact on user experience. All of which raise the bar past the R5.


----------



## talkin73 (Aug 18, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> The Canon 800 f/11 is no abomination. It is an excellent lens with awesome AF performance and much less restrictive then you might think given it is f/11. Given the price point, compactness, and very low weight; it is an awesome offering from Canon.


Nice shot. Seems like one really useful application of BIF when light is plentiful and needed SS is still attainable at f11. Agree with your comment. I don’t own either lens but most reviews are quite positive and comment on the merits you mentioned.


----------



## talkin73 (Aug 18, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> Pleases me.


I was uncertain about this initially before buying the R5. What I realized is that there are very few times in my shooting the speed of CFB actually seems necessary. But I have several times filled my CFB card and been grateful to have a handful of SD UHSii cards lying around that are perfectly fast, relatively cheap by comparison, and easily available. So I’m not reliant on a super high priced backup card, which has been helpful. I’m sure some would like the high speed redundancy for writing to both cards simultaneously and I can definitely appreciate where that could be missed. For my purposes, I’ve found the SD alternate to work quite well and be affordable.


----------



## talkin73 (Aug 18, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Hmmm....Guess MP isn't important to landscape, portrait, wildlife, or travel photographers. Sony bundled a camera with excellent weather sealing, 50 MP, 30 FPS, super AF, fantastic ISO performance, big buffer etc. Wish I had such a "toy"......but that stuff is for spec lovers, not photographers. lol


Agree here. I switched from Sony to Canon a few months ago for a variety of reasons but was generally pretty pleased with many aspects of Sony’s cameras and lenses. The A1 is a very nice camera that I had a chance to use for a bit. Perhaps missing an integrated grip but the lack of such hasn’t seemed to hamper Sony’s rise in the mirrorless space. It certainly appears that Sony’s innovating has really pushed Canon and Nikon forward in this market. Calling their cameras “toys” comes off as fanboyish and a bit naive.


----------



## talkin73 (Aug 18, 2021)

SNJ Ops said:


> Or just do what Sony did for the A7SIII and A1 and offer dual hybrid card slots. 1 side of each slot takes SD cards, the other side takes CF express type A.
> 
> Canon could do the same and offer SD and CFX type B hybrid slots.


Yes this was a nice compromise. Not the fastest CF cards but they are certain a bit bump from SD and having dual options is a smart move for a variety of reasons.


----------



## rbielefeld (Aug 18, 2021)

talkin73 said:


> Agree here. I switched from Sony to Canon a few months ago for a variety of reasons but was generally pretty pleased with many aspects of Sony’s cameras and lenses. The A1 is a very nice camera that I had a chance to use for a bit. Perhaps missing an integrated grip but the lack of such hasn’t seemed to hamper Sony’s rise in the mirrorless space. It certainly appears that Sony’s innovating has really pushed Canon and Nikon forward in this market. Calling their cameras “toys” comes off as fanboyish and a bit naive.


Sony cameras on the level of the a7RIV, a9II, and a1 are not toys! I have shot all three extensively along side my Canon R5s and they have a lot to offer to many photographers. The R3 should be on the level of the a9II and hopefully better it in several ways. The R1 needs to be a 45-60mp, high fps camera to match and hopefully better the a1 and Z9. I just cannot fathom Canon bringing out the R1 at 20ish mp and thus having two 20ish mp, high fps camera's. That would make no sense at all to me. One, of either the R3 and R1, needs to be higher mp. Folks say Canon does not have to "compete" with Sony and Nikon. They can do what their research says is best to pursue. This of course is true. But, concomitant to this, Canon does have to compete with Sony and Nikon given Sony and Nikon, by definition, are Canon's competitors.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 18, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> Folks say Canon does not have to "compete" with Sony and Nikon. They can do what their research says is best to pursue. This of course is true. But, concomitant to this, Canon does have to compete with Sony and Nikon given Sony and Nikon, by definition, are Canon's competitors.


When people say, “Canon has to compete with SoNikon,” that’s usually code for ‘Canon should offer feature x or specification y’ because the person making the statement personally wants x or y in their next Canon camera. People always think _they_ are Canon’s market, often in spite of ample evidence to the contrary.


----------



## SNJ Ops (Aug 18, 2021)

The Sony A1 is aimed at more sectors of the market than just sports shooters. It has the speed for wildlife, the resolution for landscapes, the IQ for portraits, the video features for film making and yet its still fairly small and light enough for the street and weddings.

The R3 will be a great camera but for silent shooting at weddings/events I’m sure many would prefer a smaller and lighter kit.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Aug 19, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> That's all fine, but you cannot use it in full sun or the fluorite will crack, or so Nikon implied. But then they went and put fluorite into their black-painted lenses. And tout it's benefits. Gotta love marketeers.


Well, Eduard Louis Bernays, the later pioneer of PR, worked in WW I as an expert of "psychological warfare", as he put it. Nikon marketing seems to have learned from him. I guess they had in the 90s a real problem because Canon was too innovative in lens design, their own original field when Canon made the Leica copies and Nikon the lenses. Today, Nikon still is behind, if one takes the DO tech as a measure. Canon has improved their EF 400mm f/4 DO II much, and Nikon came much later with their small 300mm f/4 - and they had trouble with decentered lenses:








The Nikon 300mm f/4E PF ED VR Test: Or Why I Don’t Test Just One Copy


As most of you know, we generally test multiple copies of a lens when we evaluate it, simply because we are so aware of copy-to-copy variation. But I got caught between a rock and a hard place this week. We received exactly one copy of the new Nikon 300mm f/4E PF ED VR lens and [...]



www.lensrentals.com


----------

