# Updated: Scammed: The X-Tra battery campaign on Kickstarter



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

> Back in November, I promoted a Kickstarter campaign for the X-Tra Performance battery, a very cool looking battery product for your Canon and other mirrorless cameras.
> In the past, I’ve generally only ever promoted campaigns by companies that have had a track record of delivering on their promises, the likes Kurvd, Peak Design and Gura Gear have never really let anyone down, outside of minor delivery delays.
> This time, however, it looks like we have all been taken, and I would like to apologize for not properly vetting the project because once I dug deeper after the fact, it became apparent that this project was likely a scam from the get-go.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## woodman411 (Feb 9, 2021)

Thanks for being upfront about it, it is far more difficult to post this versus quietly editing or deleting mistakes, which happen all too often in the digital online world.


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## Elgogo (Feb 9, 2021)

Once Indiegogo and Kickstarter have your money they could care less. You are investing in an idea and nothing else. Credit cards won’t pay you back. Very difficult. They Will temporary give you the money back until the investigation comes back and then they will take your money again quoting that you invested in an idea not a product


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## cayenne (Feb 9, 2021)

Wow..that sucks.
I have backed a number of Kickstarter campaigns and have gotten what I feel are great deals on new products and have been generally satisfied.

But I supposed bad ones slip through....thanks for the update.

I remembered looking at this one and it just didn't happen to tickle my fancy. Thankfully.

cayenne


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

Elgogo said:


> Once Indiegogo and Kickstarter have your money they could care less. You are investing in an idea and nothing else. Credit cards won’t pay you back. Very difficult. They Will temporary give you the money back until the investigation comes back and then they will take your money again quoting that you invested in an idea not a product



The person I spoke to at American Express says they refund all crowdfunding scams. That said, it may depend on your country, card type or even the person you speak to.

If a few hundred people get the refunds, there's no way Kickstarter is going to fill out a few hundred disputes, because they'd probably still lose.


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## LeBlobe (Feb 9, 2021)

I saw some convincing suspicions in thread when you posted this.


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## slclick (Feb 9, 2021)

LeBlobe said:


> I saw alot of convincing suspicions in thread when you posted this.


Same here. Fishy from the start and was surprised you backed it initially. Sorry to everyone who did. Having a solid bank behind your accounts is so important these days. I've never done the Internet begging thing and now after reading this am more convinced I never will. I'd rather be the 'sucker that pays retail' and does not get scammed or put through a hassle.


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## Pierre Lagarde (Feb 9, 2021)

Sorry for all that, and glad to see there are still some people as honest as you are about their mistakes.
To ease the pain, I would say it's more and more difficult to even simply define "scam", some campaigns can be perfectly legal and still a clear loss for investors. Sometimes, you can't even know who's fooling who (and some are even fooling themselves, probably, or at least a part of their staff).


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## RunAndGun (Feb 9, 2021)

My radar went off immediately and I’m sorry you and others got tricked. This is the kind of thing that makes it harder for the legit guys, because, as they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch.

I do give you credit for stepping up and admitting your mistake of backing and recommending them, though. And to the others that got taken, call your CC company. I have seen them do charge backs/refunds in situations that may surprise you.


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## Matthew19 (Feb 9, 2021)

When crowdfunding you are taking the place of a capital investor, someone who is experienced at analyzing risk and probability. The kickstarters will print up a proof of concept and the public sees it and thinks that the product actually exists. It doesn't. 

I see no reason to kickstarter anything now. You take no risk, and if its a success, you can buy once the first units ship and you'll have a better product because the kinks are smoothed out.


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## BeenThere (Feb 9, 2021)

Some legit battery company may still run with the idea unless frozen out by patents. Not a bad concept.


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## Max TT (Feb 9, 2021)

What I said way back in Nov


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## twoheadedboy (Feb 9, 2021)

Max C said:


> What I said way back in Nov
> View attachment 195720



That's a bit reductive, considering multiple successful Kickstarters from Peak Design, Arsenal, etc.


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## Dragon (Feb 9, 2021)

Thanks for being up front with this. When I looked at the original post I was skeptical of the claim of 2x the power in a battery only slightly bigger than the OEM battery. I had seen no articles suggesting that such an improvement was possible.


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## another_mikey (Feb 9, 2021)

Disappointing - I was VERY close to backing this myself but held off, not due to suspicions but just because I was saving for another purchase. I thought the design looked cool though - maybe someone reputable could pick up on the idea, as I thought they had some cool concepts incorporated into the proposed product. Sorry folks may lose their hard earned cash, makes it that much harder for the reputable Kickstarter types in the future too no doubt.

ML


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## cuboci (Feb 9, 2021)

I looked at your post from back in November and it is in the category Industry News. Now, it was obviously a promotional article but there was nothing in there about your 20% stake in the product, not even that you backed the campaign yourself. A little disclaimer about that would have been nice. I think being transparent about your own involvement when you promote such campaigns is the ethical thing to do. I'm kind of disappointed.


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## melgross (Feb 9, 2021)

I had backed five Kickstarter campaigns. Two of them came through, and the other three? Well, I have no idea. I haven’t done that for several years, and I never will again, except for a book that someone I know very well is doing on professional audio. But he’s very well known in the industry and has a company that has made numerous high quality recordings. This is his second book. But otherwise, I‘m done with it.


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## LeBlobe (Feb 9, 2021)

cuboci said:


> I looked at your post from back in November and it is in the category Industry News. Now, it was obviously a promotional article but there was nothing in there about your 20% stake in the product, not even that you backed the campaign yourself. A little disclaimer about that would have been nice. I think being transparent about your own involvement when you promote such campaigns is the ethical thing to do. I'm kind of disappointed.



i didnt know that too , is it the norm for such articles on most reputable sites?


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## melgross (Feb 9, 2021)

cuboci said:


> I looked at your post from back in November and it is in the category Industry News. Now, it was obviously a promotional article but there was nothing in there about your 20% stake in the product, not even that you backed the campaign yourself. A little disclaimer about that would have been nice. I think being transparent about your own involvement when you promote such campaigns is the ethical thing to do. I'm kind of disappointed.


I agree. He probably didn’t think of it at the time. But definately. If someone promotes a product, or any kind of possible product, and has a stake in it, then ethically, they must say that.

actually, I believe it‘s legally required in some jurisdictions. Additionally, if he has a stake, or partial ownership position in the project, he may be responsible for the losses others have suffered.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

LeBlobe said:


> i didnt know that too , is it the norm for such articles on most reputable sites?



Yes, it's normal. You can usually tell by the URL of the link. But yes, an affiliate disclaimer is supposed to be on such posts.

Gura Gear, Peak Design, Kurvd are all affiliated as well. It's just standard marketing practice, they only pay marketing dollars out if there are direct sales.

I did put my money where my mouth was and ordered two of the batteries. Thankfully I was refunded, I hope others are successful too.


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## amorse (Feb 9, 2021)

Full credit is due for owning up to what happened. We all get taken once in a while.

I know a lot of people in the forum were vocal on noting that this one smelled off, but I do feel for the people that thew money into this expecting a great opportunity. If nothing else, it's an expensive reminder that kickstarters come with risk and anyone investing in them needs to recognize that a risk exists and assess their own comfort level with it; not unlike investing.

For me, third party batteries are an immediate non-starter as I've bought off-brand batteries in the past and been burned several times. YMMV.


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## [email protected] (Feb 9, 2021)

I backed this, but did so knowing it could be a scam or - more likely - a failure. This is the first time I got scammed after having backed maybe half a dozen others. I certainly don't blame CanonRumors. Kickstarter is like poor man's venture capital. You want to fund the innovation, and might benefit from it yourself, but some will blow up. 

I think it was perfectly appropriate for CR to point out the campaign as news. Affiliating with it is fine so long as you disclose. Too bad it went south, but I appreciate CR looking out for cool stuff.


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## JP4DESIGNZ (Feb 9, 2021)

Whoa! I back out of this project a day before it got funded. I was getting one to replace a battery I lost, but backed out as soon as I found it. So sorry this happened to everyone.


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2021)

Don't beat yourself over it. We all make mistakes...we're all human. Even if you didn't share it, people would of still been scammed either by being active on KS or from other sites.

It's a pricey mistake for everyone who pledged in the scam but its a risk we all take and are aware of when we pledge on KS. As I mentioned in the comments on KS, if you're unsure, ALWAYS pledge $1 just to get your "foot in the door" to scope out the campaign. You may risk losing out on the Super Early Bird or Early Bird specials but these KS campaigns always let you purchase the products when surveys are sent out.

Definitely contact your credit card company. As they always say, "you're a valued customer..." so they should be doing the right thing. When I fell for a few KS traps, my credit card company contacted KS. Either I'd get no response and my cc company would reimburse me or KS/the campaign would respond back to the investigation. I would respond back with further evidence and my cc would handle it from there. After a few weeks, I got my money back.

KS is useless when they say that they will help you file in chargebacks. Such a bunch of crock as they don't reply back to you or help backers.


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2021)

another_mikey said:


> Disappointing - I was VERY close to backing this myself but held off, not due to suspicions but just because I was saving for another purchase. I thought the design looked cool though - maybe someone reputable could pick up on the idea, as I thought they had some cool concepts incorporated into the proposed product. Sorry folks may lose their hard earned cash, makes it that much harder for the reputable Kickstarter types in the future too no doubt.
> 
> ML


One thing I was hesitant about the campaign is the compatibility. Yes, 5D Mark III, R5, R6 all use the LP-E6/N/NH battery but not all battery doors are created equal. So how will that work? It's not like you take your existing battery and insert into the extension grip like its a battery tray (ohhh idea!!!???). The campaign had the battery built in to the extension grip. Per campaign description, it looked like it was only battery specific that would work for compatible cameras and not camera specific. The R6 battery door is a smidge longer than the 5D Mark III.


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## DVaNu (Feb 9, 2021)

I came across this very recent Kickstarter campaign a few days ago. If I'm not mistaken it's the same "model" posing as a musician/user in the intro video:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sabinetek/finalace-a-wearable-audio-studio/description



Unless the person in the CEO picture of the X-tra battery campaign is indeed "Jeffrey Parker" their CEO. It's a clear infringement of one of the Kickstarter rules:
"Suspicious creator behaviour or pledging activity" - " The creator or project team is impersonating me or somebody else, or is falsifying biographical details"
At that point Kickstarter should not ignore it anymore and has to take further measures. But the chance of that happening will probably depend on how many complaints they will get and if they are willing to investigate it more thoroughly.


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## lightingb (Feb 9, 2021)

Question... 
I can't confirm or deny this project is a scam. I have not taken the time to investigate. But I do trust Canon Rumors. It's obvious that this product took a lot of research and thinking to create. The product was incredibly useful and one of the better products that actually fixed a real world problem. Is it possible this is not a scam but poorly run. Or was a business proposition to begin with and then feel apart? 

I don't deny your evidence seems 100 percent legit. I trust it and will share this information with my friends that purchased it. But I am questioning the amount of effort and thought it would have taken. Typically scammers (unless they are brilliant, which happens) typically don't go through so much trouble. That makes me wonder if something else is actually going on. Like their business plan crumbled. Which has a higher chance of probability. I on the other hand have no proof to backup my opinion. It's just a thought. 

Thoughts?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

DVaNu said:


> I came across this very recent Kickstarter campaign a few days ago. If I'm not mistaken it's the same "model" posing as a musician/user in the intro video:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sabinetek/finalace-a-wearable-audio-studio/description
> View attachment 195721
> 
> ...



Nice work, it looks like the same guy to me. I will reach out to Kickstarter again.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

lightingb said:


> Question...
> I can't confirm or deny this project is a scam. I have not taken the time to investigate. But I do trust Canon Rumors. It's obvious that this product took a lot of research and thinking to create. The product was incredibly useful and one of the better products that actually fixed a real world problem. Is it possible this is not a scam but poorly run. Or was a business proposition to begin with and then feel apart?
> 
> I don't deny your evidence seems 100 percent legit. I trust it and will share this information with my friends that purchased it. But I am questioning the amount of effort and thought it would have taken. Typically scammers (unless they are brilliant, which happens) typically don't go through so much trouble. That makes me wonder if something else is actually going on. Like their business plan crumbled. Which has a higher chance of probability. I on the other hand have no proof to backup my opinion. It's just a thought.
> ...



I've seen Kickstarters fall apart, one in particular that I promoted. The difference is they never stopped communicating with the community and they paid their affiliate bills.


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2021)

DVaNu said:


> I came across this very recent Kickstarter campaign a few days ago. If I'm not mistaken it's the same "model" posing as a musician/user in the intro video:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sabinetek/finalace-a-wearable-audio-studio/description
> View attachment 195721
> 
> ...


By the looks of it, *Sabinetek* looks to be legit. They created 3 campaigns (2 completed). However, their products (based on comments) looks a little shoddy. Since this guy is a model, you'll see him in a bunch of other campaigns and would be normal. But for the shady company to pass him off as the CEO, that's wrong.


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## frjmacias (Feb 9, 2021)

I remember the article on this campaign back in November. I did not back it because I was struggling financially at the time, but I remember thinking to myself that it was a neat idea. Now, I am obviously glad I did not back it, but I did want to commend you for owning up to your mistake in this matter. As careful as one can be, I have been had by scams in the past, so I understand completely.


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## Tangent (Feb 9, 2021)

I had no idea that an affiliate commission was 20%. Speaking in general terms, that's a hefty incentive for someone to push a product. Do folks make 20% on affiliate links to buy B&H gear, for example, also? I'm kind of curious now about this and what percentages are involved.

follow up to my own Q: On B&H it's 2-8% with average of 3.5%.


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## bsbeamer (Feb 9, 2021)

I was skeptical of their claims on performance and how it would work with genuine Canon cameras that basically need some kind of communication with LPE6/LPE6N. I've used a lot of 3rd party batts for video work in the past and nothing gives you the reliability of the Canon battery metering unless it's with a genuine Canon battery. Straight USB-C power for all cameras will solve this for many, especially with timelapse or long recordings.



bsbeamer said:


> Wonder what compatibility is ACTUALLY like. I've used a LOT of LPE6 USB battery adapter products like Tether Tools in the past and you cannot always shoot "continuous" indefinitely if the camera senses the battery is draining. Sometimes camera needs to be turned off in-between USB brick changes or else you'll eventually get an auto-shutoff at the worst possible moment.
> 
> Third party batteries always seem to not accurately report battery levels in-camera, which is the level indicator that needs to be used or else another "reboot" is needed to properly recognize.
> 
> Mirrorless with USB-C built in that allows full charging with hot swap makes this product a lot less useful.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

Tangent said:


> I had no idea that an affiliate commission was 20%. Speaking in general terms, that's a hefty incentive for someone to push a product. Do folks make 20% on affiliate links to buy B&H gear, for example, also? I'm kind of curious now about this and what percentages are involved.
> 
> follow up to my own Q: On B&H it's 2-8% with average of 3.5%.



10-20% is fairly normal for Kickstarter campaigns.

As far as retailers such as B&H, there is nowhere near 10% margin on cameras and lenses (house brands pay more), so they pay far less in commissions. Amazon has a tiered system for different product categories and volume.


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## puffo25 (Feb 9, 2021)

Hello. I am very worry about this article- So in essence the campaign coming from this site: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...?ref=ksr_email_comment_new_reply_notification is a fraud/scam? I have indeed apply to buy this battery pack. Do you think I should immediately try to get the money back from my credit card company?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

puffo25 said:


> Hello. I am very worry about this article- So in essence the campaign coming from this site: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...?ref=ksr_email_comment_new_reply_notification is a fraud/scam? I have indeed apply to buy this battery pack. Do you think I should immediately try to get the money back from my credit card company?



Yes, everything is pointing to this campaign being a scam from the start. It has been reported to both Kickstarter and Indiegogo.


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## dwarven (Feb 9, 2021)

Thanks for being so honest about it That's a rare quality on the internet these days.


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## peters (Feb 9, 2021)

Aaah I couldnt belive it back than, when people pointed it out. But the concept looked great for me and I couldnt see any reason why this shouldnt work. I still think it could be done rather easily, but obviously not by this scammer idiots >.<


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Yes, everything is pointing to this campaign being a scam from the start. It has been reported to both Kickstarter and Indiegogo.


Unfortunately KS and IndieGoGo would do nothing. They took their share of fees and pretty much wipe their hands clean. There are a bunch of KS scam campaigns that are still live with backers still asking for refunds. The only action it seems KS and Indie would do is if the campaign is a copyright infringement or imitating to be another campaign. Those are the only times I've seen either crowdfunding take action. Otherwise, if its a scam, KS ignores it.


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## 1kind (Feb 9, 2021)

puffo25 said:


> Hello. I am very worry about this article- So in essence the campaign coming from this site: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...?ref=ksr_email_comment_new_reply_notification is a fraud/scam? I have indeed apply to buy this battery pack. Do you think I should immediately try to get the money back from my credit card company?


File a chargeback/dispute with your credit card company. Each cc company has different ways of handling situations like this. For mine, they did an investigation where they contacted KS asking for information/for a reply. I think KS contacted the campaign for their response...essentially KS is the middle man for communication.

For one campaign, KS responded back on behalf of the campaign to my cc company saying it would ship in July. I responded back to my cc company and said its a lie and provided additional proof that they kept pushing and delaying shipment. From there, I don't know if the campaign decided not to respond back but my cc refunded me my money. It was about $200+.

The second campaign I filed a chargeback on, I don't think I heard anything at all and my cc just refunded me the money. This was only like ~$70? So maybe that was a factor? Don't know.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 9, 2021)

I've never been able to bring myself to support a kick starter project. I'm a confirmed skeptic and have little trust, even if its a big company like Canon.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've never been able to bring myself to support a kick starter project. I'm a confirmed skeptic and have little trust, even if its a big company like Canon.



Well, Peak Design is never going to rip you off, although at this point, I don't understand why they don't have their own inhouse platform for new products, it wouldn't be hard.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

1kind said:


> File a chargeback/dispute with your credit card company. Each cc company has different ways of handling situations like this. For mine, they did an investigation where they contacted KS asking for information/for a reply. I think KS contacted the campaign for their response...essentially KS is the middle man for communication.
> 
> For one campaign, KS responded back on behalf of the campaign to my cc company saying it would ship in July. I responded back to my cc company and said its a lie and provided additional proof that they kept pushing and delaying shipment. From there, I don't know if the campaign decided not to respond back but my cc refunded me my money. It was about $200+.
> 
> The second campaign I filed a chargeback on, I don't think I heard anything at all and my cc just refunded me the money. This was only like ~$70? So maybe that was a factor? Don't know.



Yes, each credit card company may treat it differently, but the premium cards tend to have buyer protection insurance, and you shouldn't have a problem getting your money back.


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## puffo25 (Feb 9, 2021)

1kind said:


> File a chargeback/dispute with your credit card company. Each cc company has different ways of handling situations like this. For mine, they did an investigation where they contacted KS asking for information/for a reply. I think KS contacted the campaign for their response...essentially KS is the middle man for communication.
> 
> For one campaign, KS responded back on behalf of the campaign to my cc company saying it would ship in July. I responded back to my cc company and said its a lie and provided additional proof that they kept pushing and delaying shipment. From there, I don't know if the campaign decided not to respond back but my cc refunded me my money. It was about $200+.
> 
> The second campaign I filed a chargeback on, I don't think I heard anything at all and my cc just refunded me the money. This was only like ~$70? So maybe that was a factor? Don't know.



Appreciated. I did with amex. I will fill out the dispute tomorrow. Keep you posted. Thanks.


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## Mahk43 (Feb 9, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I don't understand why they don't have their own inhouse platform for new products, it wouldn't be hard.


Because they can build to order. They only invest on pre-design. No big investment, the cash is already here when they launch the industrialization and other things like packaging, which cost a lot. Other gain is you allready know how many piece to build. No inventory or unsold pieces.


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## AlanF (Feb 9, 2021)

1kind said:


> File a chargeback/dispute with your credit card company. Each cc company has different ways of handling situations like this. For mine, they did an investigation where they contacted KS asking for information/for a reply. I think KS contacted the campaign for their response...essentially KS is the middle man for communication.
> 
> For one campaign, KS responded back on behalf of the campaign to my cc company saying it would ship in July. I responded back to my cc company and said its a lie and provided additional proof that they kept pushing and delaying shipment. From there, I don't know if the campaign decided not to respond back but my cc refunded me my money. It was about $200+.
> 
> The second campaign I filed a chargeback on, I don't think I heard anything at all and my cc just refunded me the money. This was only like ~$70? So maybe that was a factor? Don't know.


"To lose one parent, Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness." ― Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest. He would probably write the same about two failed attempts on Kickstarter.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

Mahk43 said:


> Because they can build to order. They only invest on pre-design. No big investment, the cash is already here when they launch the industrialization and other things like packaging, which cost a lot. Other gain is you allready know how many piece to build. No inventory or unsold pieces.



What I mean is they could easily and cost-effectively build their own crowdfunding tech or use a Shopify addon, yet they stick with Kickstarter.


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## Mahk43 (Feb 9, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> What I mean is they could easily and cost-effectively build their own crowdfunding tech or use a Shopify addon, yet they stick with Kickstarter.


KS is part of the business model. For us it's not a proof of trust, but it is for investors. This is the other use of KS for startup leaders, to show their results in number of customers, sales, turnovers per product etc.
To take the exemple of peak design, as long as they do not receive sufficient financing offers (I would say 10 or 20M to invest into a facility and a commercial system for exemple), it's normal to continue the KS business model that cost nearly nothing and ensure reliable incomes.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 9, 2021)

Mahk43 said:


> KS is part of the business model. For us it's not a proof of trust, but it is for investors. This is the other use of KS for startup leaders, to show their results in number of customers, sales, turnovers per product etc.
> To take the exemple of peak design, as long as they do not receive sufficient financing offers (I would say 10 or 20M to invest into a facility and a commercial system for exemple), it's normal to continue the KS business model that cost nearly nothing and ensure reliable incomes.



You can do your own crowdfunding on Shopify which they use for a couple of hundred bucks.


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## Profit007 (Feb 10, 2021)

We all make mistatkes, but please notice that numerous people (like me) said in the thread of your original post that THIS WAS A SCAM. That the 'product' they were offering wasn't legitimate, and that this was really obvious (and when on to detail why).

My post started with: " SCAM SCAM SCAM, and I can't believe both CR & CN have fallen for it. "

Mr CR, you have an unusual opportunity to crowd source product wisdom, please consider a model where you could use this moving forward.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 10, 2021)

Profit007 said:


> We all make mistatkes, but please notice that numerous people (like me) said in the thread of your original post that THIS WAS A SCAM. That the 'product' they were offering wasn't legitimate, and that this was really obvious (and when on to detail why).
> 
> My post started with: " SCAM SCAM SCAM, and I can't believe both CR & CN have fallen for it. "
> 
> Mr CR, you have an unusual opportunity to crowd source product wisdom, please consider a model where you could use this moving forward.



I unfortunately do not read all of the posts on the forum. Again, that's my fault and I have the skillset to vet things and I didn't.

I will pretty much only promote a Peak Design product going forward. I know everyone has said that Kickstarter and Indiegogo don't care, but I'm actually taken aback how little they care and the fact the campaign is still live on Indiegogo.

I guess my Canadian naivety got the best of me.


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## Eric Potter (Feb 10, 2021)

Fairly poor.

Were you targeted because of the reputation and followers you have?

Whilst I appreciate the costs and time and effort put into running this kind of site I would suggest greater transparency and disclosure so that potential investors know you have a personal stake in such recommendations.

No need for me to bang the drum on this one, I'm sure you are feeling it acutely, each investor takes their own risk and should perform their own due diligence.

Kudos in some respect too for owning it and apologising.


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## Profit007 (Feb 10, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> I would suggest greater transparency and disclosure so that potential investors know you have a personal stake in such recommendations.



Agree 1000% But it was great Mr CR has now told the full story, making him a leader.

So far Mr CN is still quiet, but he promoted it with an affiliate link too. Where is his apology for his financially incentivized recommendation people invest in a product he hadn't looked very hard at either?

Meanwhile my respect for Mr CR has gone up. Although again, in a crowd there will be people with particular expertise that could benefit all in such situations, why not crowd source the research? This time I put my hand up stating what was obvious to me, next time it will be someone else. Promote or hightlight the posts that contribute the most, like Redit does, then make a decision.


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## scottkinfw (Feb 10, 2021)

I just notified my bank.

Fingers crossed.

Good luck to us all.

Maybe, before you recommend another project, since you get a cut of the action, do some research for us on the front end. Not to be a jerk, but this can prevent another scam. We do count on you, and we work hard for our money.

Thanks for being up front.

sek


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## ozturert (Feb 10, 2021)

I NEVER EVER trust any Kickstarter campaing. Even by very established companies.


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## puffo25 (Feb 10, 2021)

Update: Thanks to Amex credit card company, I got the full refund on real time. Thanks again that we have been informed about this horrible scam expereince.


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## vjlex (Feb 10, 2021)

VICYASA said:


> Canon Rumors and they idiocy = shameful!
> 
> This is an embarrassment.


So you're one of those people who likes to pile on and kick a person when he's being honest and freely owning up to a mistake? I really don't understand why you as a guest feel you're entitled to be rude to the host of this site.


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## DannyPwins (Feb 10, 2021)

another_mikey said:


> Disappointing - I was VERY close to backing this myself but held off, not due to suspicions but just because I was saving for another purchase. I thought the design looked cool though - maybe someone reputable could pick up on the idea, as I thought they had some cool concepts incorporated into the proposed product. Sorry folks may lose their hard earned cash, makes it that much harder for the reputable Kickstarter types in the future too no doubt.
> 
> ML


Likewise, I even contact them to make sure it would work with my R. They assumed I was buying it when my question was answered 

Thank you so much! Danny
Keep it up! Hope you enjoy the X-TRA
Best,
Arthur​
Glad I dodged this.


----------



## Kit. (Feb 10, 2021)

another_mikey said:


> I thought the design looked cool though - maybe someone reputable could pick up on the idea,


The design looked like a scam, so I doubt anyone reputable would repeat it.


----------



## 1kind (Feb 10, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Well, Peak Design is never going to rip you off, although at this point, I don't understand why they don't have their own inhouse platform for new products, it wouldn't be hard.


A lot of people have asked the same thing but they've built a following on KS. Its their marketing platform in a way.

ThinkTank has used KS along with WANDRD and other big name companies.


----------



## 1kind (Feb 10, 2021)

Nathaniel Downes said:


> Funny how when you think you're making money off a scam, you don't notice it as a scam, but when that check never arrived, then it is a scam.
> 
> This is one problem with the influencer model. They offer to give you 20% of sales and the dollar signs go off in your mind and then your followers get scammed and you lose nothing.
> 
> ...


Commission or not, its hard to vet which is real and what isn't. Its harder when they show the actual product in a working form. I backed a 15" portable monitor. They sent it to LinusTech for review. You'd think that its legit right? That they sent it to a reputable tech reviewer. But they still scammed all the backers. He wouldn't have known either.

The same if a product was sent to Peter McKinnon, Vanessa Joy (Canon EOL), Unbox Therapy or even MKBHD (Marques Brownlee). Or maybe even reputable tech news sites like Engadget, Wired, etc. They wouldn't have known and they would have shared it with everyone.


----------



## kiwiengr (Feb 10, 2021)

secretgoldfish said:


> From the stupid grifter model in HK lending his image for money and attention.....to the website backtracking on content not originally or correctly labelled as PAID/SPONSORED CONTENT.



Did he, or was it just lifted? If they are scamming, why would they be concerned about getting approval for use of the image?


----------



## Eric Potter (Feb 10, 2021)

vjlex said:


> So you're one of those people who likes to pile on and kick a person when he's being honest and freely owning up to a mistake? I really don't understand why you as a guest feel you're entitled to be rude to the host of this site.



Just an observation but it's a shame that he wasn't as honest and free about his commission at the time of recommendation. This goes to the heart of influencer and grifting culture. 

I really don't think it'll be an issue going forward as he'll be far more diligent in the future, as will those influenced.

At the end of the day, he didn't put a gun to anybodys head and make them fund it. People have to be accountable for their own calls. It's not like Pyramids and Ponsi's are anything all that new.


----------



## seismichippo (Feb 10, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> Just an observation but it's a shame that he wasn't as honest and free about his commission at the time of recommendation. This goes to the heart of influencer and grifting culture.
> 
> I really don't think it'll be an issue going forward as he'll be far more diligent in the future, as will those influenced.
> 
> At the end of the day, he didn't put a gun to anybodys head and make them fund it. People have to be accountable for their own calls. It's not like Pyramids and Ponsi's are anything all that new.


This is the important point. If he is just pointing out something that he thinks is interesting, that's one thing. But he should be transparent about when he benefits from the reporting.

It's a little different, but it always bothers me when review sites don't state up front how they received the product to review. Transparency, especially in the era of the influencer as a business model, is key.


----------



## Refraction (Feb 10, 2021)

Unfortunately affiliates get sucked in by the lure of money and their followers drop their guard and spend based on 'trust'. This type of thing is here to stay unfortunately.


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## cayenne (Feb 10, 2021)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've never been able to bring myself to support a kick starter project. I'm a confirmed skeptic and have little trust, even if its a big company like Canon.



I've had VERY good results on many Kickstarters so far...the only thing I"ve run into has been delays in the past year due to the pandemic, but I can understand that type delay.

But I've bought even some high dollar ticket items and have been very satisfied.

In fact, one I just backed is the new Reveni Spot meter, which looks to be very handy for my film work (Medium Format) with cameras without built in meters.
This one is done in conjunction with Nick Carver, and his metering system...

So, I guess just pick and choose carefully....if it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.


C


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## cayenne (Feb 10, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> You can do your own crowdfunding on Shopify which they use for a couple of hundred bucks.



Well, Kickstarter is very well known....until you mentioned this capability on Shopify, I'd never heard of it, and I"m guessing most people wouldn't know about it or find it....

I often browse KS when bored to see if anything interesting shows up that I might like....

Just a thought.


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## cayenne (Feb 10, 2021)

vjlex said:


> So you're one of those people who likes to pile on and kick a person when he's being honest and freely owning up to a mistake? I really don't understand why you as a guest feel you're entitled to be rude to the host of this site.



Yeah I noticed that too.
I wish there was a thumbs DOWN vote like there is a thumbs up....I'd have used that on that post.

Why isn't there a thumbs down?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 10, 2021)

*Update to the article:*

A few people have suggested I only wrote this article because I didn't receive affiliate revenue that was due.

The collection of affiliate dollars was done by Kickbooster with a due date of January 12, 2021. To be paid out to me the first day of February. Up until this point I had continued to receive project details including my purchase being locked in and a survey from the campaign.

I only noticed by chance when I was poking around Kickbooster last week that funds had not been collected, so I reached out to Kickbooster. I then noticed that all communication from the campaign had also stopped. This campaign wasn't something that was in the forefront of my thoughts, so I was just riding it out like I always do with Kickstarter.

There have been some pretty outlandish comments about affiliate "disclosure". Yes, there should have been an affiliate disclosure on the post, like it is site-wide now. However, that would not have changed the fact that people got screwed over by a scam campaign. A couple of dozen sites, like me, didn't vet this properly, which lead to their readers buying into a scam campaign.

I have also found 9 other sites that affiliated this campaign without any sort of disclosure of being an affiliate. None of those sites has owned up to this being a scam. It doesn't make things right, but bad practice runs rampant in this industry. However, I don't believe any of these sites or myself had any bad intentions or purposely wanted to deceive readers.

Because I have written this article, many people have been able to get refunds, unfortunately not everyone will be able to, but I highly doubt that any other site would have ever followed up on this campaign being a scam.

Out of all the sites that promoted it, I have only seen two write an article about it, mostly trying to absolve themselves of any wrongdoing for not doing due diligence before posting about the campaign. I repeat, any site that claims they properly vetted this campaign is being disingenuous. It took me less than 5 minutes to figure out that "Jeffery" was BS, which is what frustrates me the most. Had I done due diligence before I posted, all of this would have been avoided.

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to contact me directly through PM or email.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 13, 2021)

X-TRA Responds to their lack of communication:



> *Dear Backers,*
> 
> First, we are genuinely sorry for the lack of communication. It's challenging for us to send out the regular update during this moment as our entrepreneurial teams encounter both the quarantine and CNY break in China. We took a risk travelling across continents during the last few weeks to ensure our conceptual design could go-to-market in the coming March.
> 
> ...



That's all well and good, and I'm not sure of the motivation behind this communication. We have the internet everywhere, there is never an excuse to go radio silent. I also don't know how Kickstarter releases funding to the people behind campaigns. Was this statement merely to slow or stop the Kickstarter and Indiegogo investigations that have been confirmed to be happening?

Secondly, it doesn't take away from the fact "Jeffery" as represented in this campaign doesn't appear to be legitimate.

They have never responded to my requests for comment directly, which was something that happened on a regular basis at the beginning of their campaign.

I would still continue to advise backers to try and get a refund through their financial institutions.

For those that are wondering, no funds have been released to affiliates, If affiliate dollars ever do roll my way, they will be donated in one way or another and I'll be very transparent about that.

*I have unlocked this thread, keep comments and criticisms civilized and rooted in fact. Thank you*


----------



## mpeeps (Feb 13, 2021)

My credit card company, Citibank, has conditionally refunded my money. They are "investigating."


----------



## ncvarsity3 (Feb 13, 2021)

I just got an email from them saying that they'll be delivered in April...


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 13, 2021)

I deal with Chinese companies, and although they could not ship or manufacture products during the lockdown, they kept in touch with me and shipped very shortly after shipping was allowed again. Shipping and production began last spring. There is no reason to claim lockdown, its been over for almost a year.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 13, 2021)

I was just going back over some things, even to the first communication I had ever received. I've looked at this email about a dozen times before, but I didn't notice what you see below until today. It's probably a bad sign that he didn't know his own name.

I wouldn't put too much faith into today's statement by "The X-TRA Team".


----------



## kirbic (Feb 13, 2021)

Given the language in Update 6, which I received this AM, it is apparent that the project is being driven by someone in mainland CN. They talk extensively about vetting suppliers, all on the mainland. With COVID travel restrictions, there is currently no way for US based management to do this effectively. I think the "Jeffrey Parker" business is a (rather disingenuous) ploy to make the engineering effort for the campaign appear to be based in the US. It is possible that the latest communication is just an attempt to thwart a KS investigation, however I'd be inclined to think not. Why put that much detail into the supplier discussion if that is the case?


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 13, 2021)

kirbic said:


> Given the language in Update 6, which I received this AM, it is apparent that the project is being driven by someone in mainland CN. They talk extensively about vetting suppliers, all on the mainland. With COVID travel restrictions, there is currently no way for US based management to do this effectively. I think the "Jeffrey Parker" business is a (rather disingenuous) ploy to make the engineering effort for the campaign appear to be based in the US. It is possible that the latest communication is just an attempt to thwart a KS investigation, however I'd be inclined to think not. Why put that much detail into the supplier discussion if that is the case?



For a scam to work well, it has to appear legitimate. The first contact email I posted above had an IP that resolved to Amazon (Likely AWS) in Toyko.


----------



## ReflexVE (Feb 13, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> For a scam to work well, it has to appear legitimate. The first contact email I posted above had an IP that resolved to Amazon (Likely AWS) in Toyko.


That is an AWS address. But that would raise red flags for me. AWS is not a user service where you'd be logged in and sending emails from a gmail account. Can you post or send me the full header of that email (in Discord perhaps)? Gmail is not hosted in AWS, it's hosted in Google's cloud. There is no reason to fill out your contact form from an AWS host either unless you have one there specifically to avoid being traced.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 13, 2021)

ReflexVE said:


> That is an AWS address. But that would raise red flags for me. AWS is not a user service where you'd be logged in and sending emails from a gmail account. Can you post or send me the full header of that email (in Discord perhaps)? Gmail is not hosted in AWS, it's hosted in Google's cloud. There is no reason to fill out your contact form from an AWS host either unless you have one there specifically to avoid being traced.



I posted it in the DISCORD moderators channel.


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## LDS (Feb 13, 2021)

ReflexVE said:


> WS is not a user service where you'd be logged in and sending emails from a gmail account.


If it was sent via the web form it's the IP from which the Canon Rumors web server was contacted - it could have been a virtual machine running in AWS. Anyway they didn't even set up their own domain and email addressed for the project, just relying on gmail ones.



ncvarsity3 said:


> I just got an email from them saying that they'll be delivered in April...


Be careful, moving the goal posts is common technique - ask those who were waiting their ZX Spectrum Vega+...


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 13, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I was just going back over some things, even to the first communication I had ever received. I've looked at this email about a dozen times before, but I didn't notice what you see below until today. It's probably a bad sign that he didn't know his own name.
> 
> I wouldn't put too much faith into today's statement by "The X-TRA Team".
> 
> ...


He has also spelled Jeffrey and Jeffery on different occasions. 

Chinese sellers often take on US names rather than use their Chinese name. I'm used to that, its just to ease communications, and as long as they don't pretend to actually be anything other than a Chinese seller using a easy to pronounce name, its ok with me. The one I've been dealing with calls himself Simon Zhou. I really doubt that first name. Its the name I put on wire transfers and they go thru.


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## Kit. (Feb 14, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> That's all well and good, and I'm not sure of the motivation behind this communication.


Likely to complicate refunds.


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## ReflexVE (Feb 14, 2021)

I passed information on to Craig, but it's definitely a scam. Not going to go into details here.


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## Eric Potter (Feb 14, 2021)

I'm going to keep this civil and concise.

The CanonRumors brand is fatally wounded. The trust is gone.

Delete at will, but you know it, everybody knows it. You were a shill for a scammer. There is really no coming back from that.


----------



## privatebydesign (Feb 14, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> I'm going to keep this civil and concise.
> 
> The CanonRumors brand is fatally wounded. The trust is gone.
> 
> Delete at will, but you know it, everybody knows it. You were a shill for a scammer. There is really no coming back from that.


I don’t agree.


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## unfocused (Feb 14, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> I'm going to keep this civil and concise.
> 
> The CanonRumors brand is fatally wounded. The trust is gone.
> 
> Delete at will, but you know it, everybody knows it. You were a shill for a scammer. There is really no coming back from that.


Fatally wounded is extreme. Damaged yes. Fatally no.

But, I would hope that going forward @Canon Rumors Guy would be more transparent about financial relationships with companies that he is promoting. I would suggest the following:

1) A disclosure that Canon Rumors has a financial relationship with the company and will profit from the sales;
2) That Canon Rumors has not vetted the advertiser, the product or its claims;
3) Full disclosure of any payments or goods or services provided to Canon Rumors, including cash payments, sample products, promotional materials, travel, etc. etc.
3) A disclaimer that third party products may void the Canon warranty.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 14, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Fatally wounded is extreme. Damaged yes. Fatally no.
> 
> But, I would hope that going forward @Canon Rumors Guy would be more transparent about financial relationships with companies that he is promoting. I would suggest the following:
> 
> ...


That seems like a much higher bar than everybody else has to get over.

Kickstarter is a gamble and knowing somebody might or might not benefit from it doesn’t change the feasibility equation all backers must personally answer. Craig didn’t benefit from it one iota, quite the opposite in fact , which is a lot more than can be said for many of the paid and biased real shills out there for any number of companies who send out ‘loaners’ that never need to be returned, ‘sponsor’ content and generally blur the lines of their word and advertising.

As far as I could see Craig just put the link up and copied and pasted the verbiage from the link, he didn’t say back it or anything close to it.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 14, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> I'm going to keep this civil and concise.
> 
> The CanonRumors brand is fatally wounded. The trust is gone.
> 
> Delete at will, but you know it, everybody knows it. You were a shill for a scammer. There is really no coming back from that.



I understand that there will always be a number of humans that are stupid and we have to deal with it. Hopefully, you also produce this rant to the other dozen sites that promoted this campaign as affiliates without disclosure. I won't name them here, but they're easy to find with Google. I was #3 on the list of sites when it came to affiliate referrals and both PetaPixel and DPReview outsold me, even without an affiliated link. I have better friends than they do and am privy to this information. Neither of those sites would have ever written about the scam if I hadn't, but they gave a bunch of BS in their articles to make it look like they were innocent. You do you though.

I've been doing this for more than a decade, and I think we've built a community of great people, so I don't believe my brand is "fatally wounded", because the people that feel that way, I don't want here anyway. I like good people, I'm not into the people that think they're perfect and that everyone else is out to screw someone. As I've mentioned.... $3500 amounts to two months of hosting this site, it's not a dollar amount that would motivate me to do anything nefarious.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 14, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Fatally wounded is extreme. Damaged yes. Fatally no.
> 
> But, I would hope that going forward @Canon Rumors Guy would be more transparent about financial relationships with companies that he is promoting. I would suggest the following:
> 
> ...




There is now an affiliate disclosure site wide.
I completely screwed up my vetting, I'm 100% wrong here. I spent years at Lens Rentals Canada vetting renters, I have to do better and I will, I will never promote another Kickstarter campaign that isn't from a reputable company. Most Kickstarter campaigns pay 10-20%. That includes Peak Design, Gura Gear, Kurvd and others. That percentage that people keep hanging on to isn't unusual for Kickstarter. B&H, Amazon and others pay various levels of commissions. If a site is pointing you to a product page, it's affiliated most of the time.
If I have ever promoted an eBay sale, I have always had a disclaimer about the warranty. Those grey market retailers are gone now for the most part.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 14, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That seems like a much higher bar than everybody else has to get over.
> 
> Kickstarter is a gamble and knowing somebody might or might not benefit from it doesn’t change the feasibility equation all backers must personally answer. Craig didn’t benefit from it one iota, quite the opposite in fact , which is a lot more than can be said for many of the paid and biased real shills out there for any number of companies who send out ‘loaners’ that never need to be returned, ‘sponsor’ content and generally blur the lines of their word and advertising.
> 
> As far as I could see Craig just put the link up and copied and pasted the verbiage from the link, he didn’t say back it or anything close to it.



That's true, I posted the press release information given to me. I also purchased two batteries myself. I've learned a valuable lesson here with Kickstarter. I've only posted one other campaign that didn't work out, but it wasn't a scam and people did receive refunds. The affiliate income that did earn from the campaign was used to refund people that backed it that fell through the cracks.

We live in a world now where everyone is perfect and no one makes mistakes. If someone does realize they've made a mistake, they pass the buck and blame it on someone else. I will always admit when I've messed up.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 14, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I don’t agree.


I don't agree either. People make mistakes. That's just human. I love this website and the information I get here. many kudos to Craig for coming clean.


----------



## SteveC (Feb 14, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't agree either. People make mistakes. That's just human. I love this website and the information I get here. many kudos to Craig for coming clean.



Agreed, it says a lot.


----------



## NorthernNovice (Feb 14, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't agree either. People make mistakes. That's just human. I love this website and the information I get here. many kudos to Craig for coming clean.


Ditto.


----------



## Kit. (Feb 14, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> I'm going to keep this civil and concise.
> 
> The CanonRumors brand is fatally wounded. The trust is gone.


Maybe next time you should avoid unnecessary "trust".


----------



## unfocused (Feb 14, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> There is now an affiliate disclosure site wide.
> I completely screwed up my vetting, I'm 100% wrong here. I spent years at Lens Rentals Canada vetting renters, I have to do better and I will, I will never promote another Kickstarter campaign that isn't from a reputable company. Most Kickstarter campaigns pay 10-20%. That includes Peak Design, Gura Gear, Kurvd and others. That percentage that people keep hanging on to isn't unusual for Kickstarter. B&H, Amazon and others pay various levels of commissions. If a site is pointing you to a product page, it's affiliated most of the time.
> If I have ever promoted an eBay sale, I have always had a disclaimer about the warranty. Those grey market retailers are gone now for the most part.


I appreciate your candor and your willingness to make changes. That all that we should ask.


----------



## zim (Feb 14, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> I'm going to keep this civil and concise.
> 
> The CanonRumors brand is fatally wounded. The trust is gone.
> 
> Delete at will, but you know it, everybody knows it. You were a shill for a scammer. There is really no coming back from that.


There were plenty of people in the original thread sceptical about this (and of Kickstarter in general) buyer beware, your money, your responsibility.


----------



## Eric Potter (Feb 14, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I understand that there will always be a number of humans that are stupid and we have to deal with it. Hopefully, you also produce this rant to the other dozen sites that promoted this campaign as affiliates without disclosure. I won't name them here, but they're easy to find with Google. I was #3 on the list of sites when it came to affiliate referrals and both PetaPixel and DPReview outsold me, even without an affiliated link. I have better friends than they do and am privy to this information.


Stupid? I'm not the one who got greedy and got myself and others scammed. Just because you were third on the list.. that isn't any kind of mitigation. 

Can you clarify on your comments around DPreview?

DPreview say:
"We had nothing to gain from readers backing the project, as we were not at all (and never have been) a part of any Kickstarter affiliate program."

Is this not the case?


----------



## LDS (Feb 14, 2021)

Well, DPReview is owned by Amazon. AFAIK, Amazon runs its own "affiliate" program.

That's why I read these sites, they have useful information, but never put my blind trust in any of them. None is a charity. I appreciate the disclosure about this event, and no, it doesn't surprise me where some of the revenues to run this site (and make a living) come from. Still it should have been more clear for those who aren't aware of how this kind of things work. Better late then never.

I'm more surprised people still trust Kickstarter & C. - if they can't even vet the identities of supposed "CEOs" using their platform.


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 15, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> Stupid? I'm not the one who got greedy and got myself and others scammed. Just because you were third on the list.. that isn't any kind of mitigation.
> 
> Can you clarify on your comments around DPreview?
> 
> ...



Yes, you're stupid.


----------



## tron (Feb 15, 2021)

I could not see the point since if I recall correctly the "battery" was bigger and protruding from the base. A second battery and or a battery grip with two batteries does exist. Even when someone does not want to bye an expensive battery grip, any 45W USB-C Powerbank with Power Delivery capability and a USB Type-C cable that is at least 3A rated can support R5 while being ON. I have observed that this works even with LP-E6N batteries. And a 18W USB Type-C Powerbank with Power Delivery capability can charge the battery while the camera (R5, R6, R) is set to OFF.


----------



## Eric Potter (Feb 15, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Yes, you're stupid.


You're a greedy shill for fraudsters. You were complicit in all this. You called it when you realised you were getting bumped, shame you didn't call it when you were hoping to take the undeclared kickbacks. It doesn't really matter what anybody else got wrong as well. All the best.


----------



## AlanF (Feb 15, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> You're a greedy shill for fraudsters. You were complicit in all this. You called it when you realised you were getting bumped, shame you didn't call it when you were hoping to take the undeclared kickbacks. It doesn't really matter what anybody else got wrong as well. All the best.


Comments like that are totally unacceptable. Canon Rumors Guy did the decent thing by warning everyone when he found out that everyone had been taken in even though it didn't look good for him, and the regulars here appreciate that and know high quality sites like this cost an arm and a leg to run.


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## puffo25 (Feb 16, 2021)

bsbeamer said:


> I was skeptical of their claims on performance and how it would work with genuine Canon cameras that basically need some kind of communication with LPE6/LPE6N. I've used a lot of 3rd party batts for video work in the past and nothing gives you the reliability of the Canon battery metering unless it's with a genuine Canon battery. Straight USB-C power for all cameras will solve this for many, especially with timelapse or long recordings.


Agree. First I think this campaign was a scam and amex card company fully refunded me the money. Than I have purcheased for around 20 USD a dump LPE6N battery which I connect using a cable straight to a USB-C 45W powerbank to have enough juice for time laps and nigt photography. And it works!


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## cayenne (Feb 16, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> You're a greedy shill for fraudsters. You were complicit in all this. You called it when you realised you were getting bumped, shame you didn't call it when you were hoping to take the undeclared kickbacks. It doesn't really matter what anybody else got wrong as well. All the best.


You know...
If you're that dissatisfied with the site, you can always feel free to close your account and not read it any longer....

Just saying.


----------



## YuengLinger (Feb 16, 2021)

Just two more thoughts, generally...I think that as bad and mean spirited as criticism can be, in the context of web nastiness, much of it all begins to sound the same. 
Consider some of the very angry, crude things said about Canon after the "scandal" of the R5 overheating. I remember people posting that Canon was pretty much guilty of war crimes. Just complete crazy talk. So, we live in an age where, for some reason, people get pleasure, or just kill time, by saying the nastiest things possible in the nastiest possible ways...anonymously. 

A mistake should be brought to light, examined so that it can be avoided in the future, and then put behind us. 

A pat on the back, along with, "Do your best from here on out," and a bowl of soup and some strawberries, go a long way with my kids. My wife is a fairly high level manager in healthcare, and she uses pretty much the same approach with her staff. She says, "Don't focus on the past, but on what fixes the problem, and then stay alert and steady day by day." They love her at work!


----------



## Mikehit (Feb 16, 2021)

Eric Potter said:


> Stupid? I'm not the one who got greedy and got myself and others scammed. Just because you were third on the list.. that isn't any kind of mitigation.
> 
> Can you clarify on your comments around DPreview?
> 
> ...



Be honest - if you knew CR would be getting 3,500 in return for his investment would it have made any difference to your decision? And why?
In a way, knowing that someone was relying on the honesty of the company to get a product *and *return on investment would have made it look even more legit. If he had got 3,500 as a promotional payment with not having laid out a cent then I would agree with you, as it was the only reason he got his money back was because the the grace of Amex.

No-one made you invest - so I ask are you aware that kickstarter is about investing in ideas rather than buying a product? And as such, are you not aware of the risk?
If the answer to either (or both) is 'no' then perhaps the problem lies with you.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 16, 2021)

I have been informed of the following by the Kickbooster Platform



> The contact that we have for this campaign actually reached out during the weekend advising that they will be making a payment. I will keep you posted!



As I said previously, if I do receive any of the affiliate money, it will be donated. I'm not sure who I want to donate it to yet, but it'll be something natural world related.

It seems there's only two of us digging into this, I'm sure Gannon and DPReview will ride our coattails at some point. I won't name the other party here, but he's done some good work and came up with this California registration for the company that is behind X-Tra.








The other person working on this isn't 100% confident that it is a scam, although he did find 3 other campaigns that failed which were run by KMC ACCOUNTANCY CORP. (C3411932). There are also about a dozen companies based in China which fall under this banner as well.

I will keep updating this thread as more information comes to light.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 16, 2021)

Craig,

I know you must feel slighted by some of the reactions you have gotten to your posts about this but the truth is _'haters gonna' hate'_ and no amount of logic or proof is going to change their opinions. Continuing to shine light on the subject really just gives those haters more oxygen, let them suffocate.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 16, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Craig,
> 
> I know you must feel slighted by some of the reactions you have gotten to your posts about this but the truth is _'haters gonna' hate'_ and no amount of logic or proof is going to change their opinions. Continuing to shine light on the subject really just gives those haters more oxygen, let them suffocate.



Yeah, you're right. I'm done! I just wanted a couple of more things on the record.

I will update on the affiliate payment if it ever comes, and then we'll run a poll on where to donate the money. I have a few charities in mind.


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## ReflexVE (Feb 16, 2021)

I appreciate the updates on the actual company behind it, it would help identify other bad faith efforts if this info gets out there.


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## tron (Feb 16, 2021)

OK as an attempt to distract all from this negativity and put things back to order let me ask:

Where is our EOS R1 and R5s ?


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