# Best FF option



## RC (Sep 21, 2012)

Mulling over what my best FF option is now that the (pathetic) 6D has been officially announced. I want to add a FF body for landscape, architecture, portrait, and flash work. I would like to get it soon, preferably before year's end, but could wait as long as March 2013 if there is a reason to wait. I consider myself a passionate hobbyist, I do not make any money or plan to from photog. I’m interested in the CR community’s thoughts and suggestions.
*
Current Gear*
- 7D (with low shutter count)
- 16-35 II (less than a year old)
- 24-105
- 70-200 F4 IS (may sell for 70-200 2.8 II)
- 100L
- 1.4 II
- 600EX-RT, ST-E3-RT (plan to add a couple of 440EX-RTs)
- Plan to get a 35L or 50L (waiting to see if a 35L II is going to be announced)

I plan to buy new. I may consider a refurb from Canon but not likely since after shipping and taxes I’m not saving much.


*Option 1:*
- Buy a 5D3 (got the money but really don’t feel good about spending that kind of money on a body. Besides that would delay some of my other intended purchases. Could wait for a price drop but really don't see it dropping below 3k, don't expect anymore $2750 deals--_I'm still suspicious about that._)
*
Option 2:*
- Buy a 5D3 – and sell some gear to help offset the cost.
- Sell 7D – Hate to give up reach. I like to shoot MLB games and have wildlife option.
- Sell 16-35 II and buy a 17-40 (plan to use this lens for landscape at small apertures so soft edges on 17-40 shouldn’t be a problem. BTW, how is the distortion on the 17-40 compared to the 16-35II?)

*Option 3:*
- Buy a 5D2 now (had ruled this out but now reconsidering). If my crystal ball showed that Canon would release firmware for better RT flash support, this would make this option easier but we all know that’s not going to happen.

*Option 4:*
- Nothing at this time. Wait and see if Canon decides to build a FF camera between the 5D3 and 6D that their customers actually want as opposed to reacting to Nikon's D600.

*Option 5:*
-	Your suggestion

Right now I’m slightly leaning towards option 3. Thanks as always.


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## Neeneko (Sep 21, 2012)

Second hand 1Ds3? Really nice camera for things like landscape/portrait/architecture.


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## M.ST (Sep 21, 2012)

For stills and landscapes go for a used 1Ds Mark III or new 5D Mark II. 

I sold my 5D Mark III because the camera can´t reach the image quality of the 1Ds Mark III and 5D Mark II (from ISO 50 to ISO 800). Speed and AF-System is not all and for landscapes and portraits you don´t need a very high ISO setting. The 1Ds Mark III is the best Canon camera for shooting landscapes and portraits.

Re to: 70-200 F4 IS (may sell for 70-200 2.8 II) => Good choice.

If you have a lot of expensive CF-cards, forget the 6D. It´s a shame that Canon don´t put a CF- and a SD slot in it. It´s also a shame that Canon don´t put 2 CF card slots in the 5D Mark III.

Remember that cameras and lenses are only tools. If you have the skills you only need a perfect composition and the best light you can get. Don´t waste a lot of time with thinking about the gear and do some shots.


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## DzPhotography (Sep 21, 2012)

Get a 6D?


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## RLPhoto (Sep 21, 2012)

RC said:


> Mulling over what my best FF option is now that the (pathetic) 6D has been officially announced. I want to add a FF body for landscape, architecture, portrait, and flash work. I would like to get it soon, preferably before year's end, but could wait as long as March 2013 if there is a reason to wait. I consider myself a passionate hobbyist, I do not make any money or plan to from photog. I’m interested in the CR community’s thoughts and suggestions.
> *
> Current Gear*
> - 7D (with low shutter count)
> ...



you can buy a 5Dc for like 500$ on Evil bay or craigslist. Its cheap as chips as still is a great camera and you wouldn't have to sell anything.


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## RC (Sep 21, 2012)

DzPhotography said:


> Get a 6D?


Love to know why you recommend a 6D?


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## bdunbar79 (Sep 21, 2012)

M.ST said:


> For stills and landscapes go for a used 1Ds Mark III or new 5D Mark II.
> 
> I sold my 5D Mark III because the camera can´t reach the image quality of the 1Ds Mark III and 5D Mark II (from ISO 50 to ISO 800). Speed and AF-System is not all and for landscapes and portraits you don´t need a very high ISO setting. The 1Ds Mark III is the best Canon camera for shooting landscapes and portraits.
> 
> ...



I agree with the 1Ds3 being better at low ISO than the 5D3. But the 5D2? That's really weird.


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## crasher8 (Sep 21, 2012)

I am so happy to give up my 7D for the 5D3. After all, now I can crop instead of having the .6 extra reach. The high ISO IQ and other benefits outweigh reach any day for me. Sell it. I got what I paid for for mine.


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## dexstrose (Sep 21, 2012)

If you are willing to wait that long, you might as well see what the 6d has in store. Afterwards, you can make a better decision on what Canon full frame camera suits your needs.

We all know what is written on paper, but we do not know how well it will perform in our world. But if you wait too long, you will never get the photo you are looking for with a full frame.

For me, the 6d: Full frame, metering, smaller and a bit lighter for field work, ISO settings, and newer processor appeal to me. Its like a mini 5dIII, or crippled 5dIII.


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## Gothmoth (Sep 22, 2012)

> Option 4:
> - Nothing at this time. Wait and see if Canon decides to build a FF camera between the 5D3 and 6D that their customers actually want as opposed to reacting to Nikon's D600.



i guess your screwed for at least 2 years if you do so.

the next FF will be a high MP DSLR and that´s it for some time.

i don´t think canon will release another 2000-3000 euro FF DSLR soon.


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## Gothmoth (Sep 22, 2012)

M.ST said:


> Re to: 70-200 F4 IS (may sell for 70-200 2.8 II) => Good choice.



for portraits sure..

but for landscape i prefer the 70-200mm f4 IS all day.

it´s lighter, much better for hiking etc.
and when do you use such wide apertures ( wider then f4) in landscape photography?


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## Kmccarthy (Sep 22, 2012)

Coming from a 7d, you will only be happy with a 5d III. The 5DII and 6D offer better IQ, but you will miss the advanced AF and handling of the 7d. The 5d III is the best of both worlds. The extra megapixels of the 5dIII will let you crop a bit more so you won't miss the reach of the 7d as much as you think.


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## TriGGy (Sep 22, 2012)

Kmccarthy said:


> Coming from a 7d, you will only be happy with a 5d III. The 5DII and 6D offer better IQ, but you will miss the advanced AF and handling of the 7d. The 5d III is the best of both worlds. The extra megapixels of the 5dIII will let you crop a bit more so you won't miss the reach of the 7d as much as you think.



I agree - I came from a 7D and more than likely you will be happy with the 5D3. I usually have buyer's remorse when purchasing an expensive item, but that didn't happen with the 5D3 (but that's just me). Once spoiled by the 7D, the harder it is to look for one like it within the Canon range. Transitioning to the 5D3 was not difficult because it is more like using the 7D (except for the 8 fps - but hey, that's why I still hold on to my 7D).


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## Kernuak (Sep 23, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> M.ST said:
> 
> 
> > For stills and landscapes go for a used 1Ds Mark III or new 5D Mark II.
> ...


I agree, having replaced my 5D MkII with the MkIII, the MkIII IQ is a match for the MkII at low ISOs and better at high ISOs. The colour rendition is different and for me I prefer it. Purely for landscapes though, the MkIII doesn't offer enough benefits to offset the additional cost over the MkII.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 23, 2012)

For MLB games, another option is a used 1D Mark IV. Supurb camera with a 1.3 crop factor. It will blow away your 7D, and can be found in the $3200-$3600 range.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 23, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> For MLB games, another option is a used 1D Mark IV. Supurb camera with a 1.3 crop factor. It will blow away your 7D, and can be found in the $3200-$3600 range.
> You mentioned FF, but a APS-H is a larger sensor and will go well with your lenses.
> Otherwise, just watch for a deal on the 5D Mark III. It will happen within 3 or less weeks.


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## drmikeinpdx (Sep 24, 2012)

I'd say keep your 7D for sports. Since you have that genre covered already, then a 5D II or even a 5D classic would be fine for landscapes and portraits, as long as you don't ask them to focus perfectly at large apertures.

I understand from reviews that the amazing autofocus on the 5D III will allow you to do portraiture at large apertures, but I don't have mine yet to confirm.

Another question is which lenses are required to take advantage of this new autofocus system? If you believe Roger Cicala, only Canon lenses made in the last two years are designed to take advantage of the new system. You may be looking at over $5,500 for a Mark III and one of the new 24-70 II lenses to get true large aperture focus accuracy.

But as others have said, the equipment does not make the photo, you do.

Mike


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## Jotho (Sep 24, 2012)

RC said:


> DzPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Get a 6D?
> ...


I didn't recommend it, but what would be wrong with it? It's a nicely priced camera with a lot of cool features. At this stage it would be futile to say anything about IQ etc, wait until reviews come out before ruling it out.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 24, 2012)

Jotho said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > DzPhotography said:
> ...



please what is nicely priced?

it´s a AF crippled 60D with a FF sensor for twice as much money.


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## Jotho (Sep 24, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> Jotho said:
> 
> 
> > RC said:
> ...



Really? And in what way is the AF crippled? I try to see it for what it is as I explained above. I think this camera will sell really well, especially with wifi adding extra functionality. I am certain it will provide great IQ, AF in line with its price range and adding to that Canon's fine lens line up. Neither of us have seen the camera yet so it's quite childish to bash it for qualities or lack of qualities that you don't have any idea of.


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## candyman (Sep 24, 2012)

drmikeinpdx said:


> ...............? If you believe Roger Cicala, only Canon lenses made in the last two years are designed to take advantage of the new system. You may be looking at over $5,500 for a Mark III and one of the new 24-70 II lenses to get true large aperture focus accuracy.
> 
> But as others have said, the equipment does not make the photo, you do.
> 
> Mike


 
But as others have said, the equipment does not make the photo, you do. *True*

But besides that, is there anyone using 5D MK IIIor 1DX and the 24-105 or 70-200 MK II that suffers from this while shooting?


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 24, 2012)

Jotho said:


> Really? And in what way is the AF crippled?



well read a bit about cross type sensors and then read the feature list of both cameras.... you may get it.



> I am certain it will provide great IQ, AF in line with its price range



a 1200 euro 7D has way better AF then the 6D so what are you trying to tell us here?
the 900 euro 60D has cross type sensors for all AF points. 




> I think this camera will sell really well, especially with wifi adding extra functionality.



oh yeah as if that means something to an educated customer.
or as if wifi explains the cost of the 6D .. i can buy wifi cards and USB sticks for 15 euro.
wifi chips are cheap... same is true for GPS chips.

and to be honest all kind of crap sells well when there is a brand name printed on it.
because the average joe customer has no clue and only sees a brand name. :

the 6D is overpriced... and this says it all:












it´s already a joke....


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## Hillsilly (Sep 24, 2012)

RC said:


> DzPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Get a 6D?
> ...


I would have thought a 6D would be exactly what you need if you're just after a second body for the 7D to do architectual, landscapes, portraits etc as you won't need the more advanced AF capabilities and frame speed of the 7D or 5Diii aren't needed here. Keep some cash in your pocket instead. 

I'd assume the image quality would be on par with other full frame options. In fact, the lower MPs might even lead to lower noise if doing night time architectual shots. The only real down side seems to be the slower flash synch speed.


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## tron (Sep 24, 2012)

M.ST said:


> For stills and landscapes go for a used 1Ds Mark III or new 5D Mark II.
> I sold my 5D Mark III because the camera can´t reach the image quality of the 1Ds Mark III and 5D Mark II (from ISO 50 to ISO 800).



Can you please elaborate on 5D Mark II part? Are you referring to the stronger AA filter or is it something else? 
I ask because I am thinking of a 5DMkIII to keep company to my ... 5DMkII


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## bbasiaga (Sep 24, 2012)

My 5DIII just arrived, and so far I'm really impressed. The images are very sharp, take post well, and have excellent color. If you can get in on one of the Ebay deals, its totally worth every penny of the cost difference over a 6D. I totally believe those folks that never regretted paying full price...its an awesome machine. 

Just a note on the AF system - it is only the newer lenses that work with the closed loop feedback capability of the AF system. All lenses, regardless of age, will still benefit from the sensitivity and number of AF points available. So you do not NEED brand new lenses to take wide aperture photos. Just as you can get sharp photos at 1.2 on a 5DII, you can get them with the same lens on a 5DIII. If the lens had the new position feedback sensor it would just be EVEN MORE reliable. 

All that said, I was going to get the 6D if the Ebay thing hadn't happened. It looks like a great all around camera for non-sport shooters, and you have that piece covered with yoru 7D.

-Brian


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## Octavian (Sep 24, 2012)

Jotho said:


> Canon-F1 said:
> 
> 
> > Jotho said:
> ...




Whilst we cannot comment on it image quality just yet it does have the following upgrades over the 5D MkII adding to the price of the MkII

Newer sensor delivering more MP and a much better ISO range (hopefully IQ qill be just as good as the MkII)
Newer updated rear screen.
GPS and Wifi
Better AF especially in low light than the MkII

For a price a little more than the MkII so lets hope the IQ is there and the 5D MkII 'lives on' in the 6D


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 24, 2012)

Octavian said:


> Whilst we cannot comment on it image quality just yet it does have the following upgrades over the 5D MkII adding to the price of the MkII
> 
> Newer sensor delivering more MP and a much better ISO range (hopefully IQ qill be just as good as the MkII)



since when is 20.2 MP more then 21.1 MP ??? ???



> GPS and Wifi



costs 50 euro... maybe...

at 1699 euro the 6D would be a deal... at 2099 euro it´s a joke.


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## tron (Sep 24, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


> M.ST said:
> 
> 
> > Re to: 70-200 F4 IS (may sell for 70-200 2.8 II) => Good choice.
> ...


+1


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## Zv (Sep 24, 2012)

Many people, myself included, wrestled with or are wrestling with the same problem. I have a 7D but wanted to add FF body to my gear. Same reasons as you mentioned. I had heard rumors of a 5D II replacement for some time and waited. But then I saw the 5D II going cheaper than ever and bought it before it became discontinued. It a tried and tested camera and a classic. Its an honor just to own one! FF ability is all i wanted, and who cares about fancy extras? Its how you use it that counts!


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## 7enderbender (Sep 24, 2012)

Generally speaking I would recommend a new 5DII while still available. The problem is that you are looking at full 600RT support. I don't think that's going to happen with the Mark II. not even sure if a firmware update could establish that. This may be an actual hardware limitation.
So that brings you to the Mark III...


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## Z-06 (Sep 24, 2012)

RC said:


> Mulling over what my best FF option is now that the (pathetic) 6D has been officially announced. I want to add a FF body for landscape, architecture, portrait, and flash work. I would like to get it soon, preferably before year's end, but could wait as long as March 2013 if there is a reason to wait. I consider myself a passionate hobbyist, I do not make any money or plan to from photog. I’m interested in the CR community’s thoughts and suggestions.
> *
> 
> Option 1:
> ...



I am actually in more or less the same boat as you are with a 7D, TS/E 17, EF 50 1.4, 24-105, and 70-200 IS MKI. I see a need for having a good FF with options to shoot some portraiture and landscapes with no immediate desire to shoot at high burst rate. I love the 1DX, but it will have to wait. So that leaves me with 5DI/II/III, 6D, or used 1DS if staying with Canon. However, with cheaper 35, 50 1.8 glasses from Nikon with the venerable 14-24, buying D600 looks like a good option, while not getting rid of any Canon gear - may be the 50. 6D just feels like lack of attention to details from Canon. Nikon also has intervalometer, bracketing for HDR that make D600 more interesting buy.


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## philsv77 (Sep 25, 2012)

Get 5d3 when the price comes down to ~$2.5k


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## Sharper100 (Sep 25, 2012)

If the 6D turns out to be as good as the specs indicate, then 5D3 would drop in price. I am not sure about the $2500 though!!


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## Zv (Sep 25, 2012)

philsv77 said:


> Get 5d3 when the price comes down to ~$2.5k



How long will that take? 2 maybe 3 years??  

Even then $2500 isn't exactly budget, you could have bought a 5D II for $1500 and put the extra towards some really good glass. 

But let's all just wait and see how this 6D performs, with a digic 5+ processor and new CMOS sensor it should be a bit of alright I reckon.  It's getting a lot of flak because it doesn't have this thing or that thing. Most people who will buy it will be amateurs coming from a rebel or XXD and will already have a stack of SD cards and only use the center AF point anyway. 

Or stick with the 7D and just put the money towards a vacation! Just puttin it out there!


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## philsv77 (Sep 25, 2012)

Was at $2750 at Adorama in EBay last week or so. See body forum.


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## RC (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks to all for your suggestions and ideas. 

I’m going to sit tight for a while and not purchase anything. I’m keeping my 7D since it’s worth much more to me than what I’d probably get for it. I’m trying to keep an open mind on the 6D, I’ll wait for sample images and reviews. I’ll give some time to see where the 5D3 prices go. Maybe over the holidays there will be another smoking deal like the Adorama eBay sale or maybe next year this rumored high MP camera will push the 5D3 down but I really doubt it will drop to or below $3000 for a very long time.

It’s frustrating because I’ve got money saved up to spend but Canon is not offering me anything that I’m willing to spend it on. IMO Canon really blew it on this 6D, all it really needs is a more advanced AF (more points, more crosses), and a 100% VF. I can choke down the SD only since it’s a low FPS camera. But looking at the whole picture, there are too many compromises and downgrades for me coming from a 7D. Canon offers the 5D3 for pro users, the 6D for beginners but nothing for us enthusiasts/hobbyists. The 5D3 is wonderful but it's more than I want to spend at $3500.


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## tron (Sep 25, 2012)

Z-06 said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > Mulling over what my best FF option is now that the (pathetic) 6D has been officially announced. I want to add a FF body for landscape, architecture, portrait, and flash work. I would like to get it soon, preferably before year's end, but could wait as long as March 2013 if there is a reason to wait. I consider myself a passionate hobbyist, I do not make any money or plan to from photog. I’m interested in the CR community’s thoughts and suggestions.
> ...


Sure, why not get rid of excellent Canon lenses and go to Nikon? Oh by the way, if you get rid of 50 1.4 you will become rich! ;D


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Sep 25, 2012)

mrk 2 could be interesting, as if you are only using low iso's then it wont matter to yeah? mrk 3 is a nice camera. 

imo, how about you try renting out a few bodies, for a day or however long you feel and then you make a decision like that? because I feel that buying camera bodies is sometimes like buying speakers. you can read 10000000 reviews but you gotta hear it (or in this case try it out) 

have you done this at all yet??


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## crasher8 (Sep 25, 2012)

I don't give a crap about a few hundred dollars now that I've spent a week with my 5d3. I can't believe I ever really had a clean image with the 7D. Why didn't I go FF sooner!


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## RC (Sep 25, 2012)

CatfishSoupFTW said:


> mrk 2 could be interesting, as if you are only using low iso's then it wont matter to yeah? mrk 3 is a nice camera.
> 
> imo, how about you try renting out a few bodies, for a day or however long you feel and then you make a decision like that? because I feel that buying camera bodies is sometimes like buying speakers. you can read 10000000 reviews but you gotta hear it (or in this case try it out)
> 
> have you done this at all yet??



Probably a good idea, got a good rental shop not far from my house



crasher8 said:


> I don't give a crap about a few hundred dollars now that I've spent a week with my 5d3. I can't believe I ever really had a clean image with the 7D. Why didn't I go FF sooner!



It's comments like this that do keep the 5D3 door open for me.


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## Alvino (Sep 28, 2012)

I suspect Canon will update the new 6D line more frequently the say the 5D line so you might want to wait. I doubt it will be major updates for mark II though. Canon will not let it cannibalize 5D3.


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