# To Soft Grad or To Hard Grad - that is the question...



## keithfullermusic (Jun 12, 2015)

so, i thought i'd keep the ND discussion going. if you have to choose either a kit of hard grads or a kit of soft grads, which would you choose. i understand that you want both, but i'm only going to be able to invest in one set at the start.

before, i've only ever used the soft ones, but i really felt like they were mostly too soft. the top of the sky would be like 2 stops darker than the bottom, and i'd always end up having to brighten it up in post. however, i've never used the hard grads, so i'm worried that they might be too limiting.

any suggestions are welcomed. thanks.

-keith


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## Leejo (Jun 12, 2015)

For me it would be hards - as the times that I have used them the horizon was straight enough, and These days a small few obstacles can be touched up in LR6.
Obviously easier to see how far the grad is working etc. And with a set then there are possibilities to double up , Offset etc.
If I was shooting more in hilly/mountainous Terrain etc. then my opinion would Switch to softs...


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 12, 2015)

I am not sure I understand what "to soft grad or to hard grad" means. 

If you mean "too soft grad or too hard grad" then the question is self answering. Too means "to a higher degree than is desirable, permissible, or possible; excessively". In which case you don't want to spend your money on anything that is "too" soft or "too" hard as both would be undesirable. 

I am afraid I don't understand what you are asking about.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 12, 2015)

My kit contains the following grad ND's.


2 stop soft
3 stop soft
2 stop hard
3 stop hard
3 stop reverse grad

If you're shooting mostly water scenes, then hard is the way to go and I'd have a 3 stop to start. If you're shooting lush vegetation, tree lines, uneven landscape, then soft is the way to go, and I'd probably pick a 2 stop if I could only have one.

Which filter brand are you looking at?


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## PhotographyFirst (Jun 12, 2015)

I have a free landscape filter guide for Lee filters on my website. It works for other filter brands as well. You would find it very useful. 

It will save you some money, and I have a few tricks that make grad filters more useful than one would think. 

Ultimately, you don't need to have soft or hard grad filters. A polarizing filter and a 3 stop solid ND can cover just about anything. It just requires some extra computer processing skills. With that said, filters are very fun to use. Having a full kit is great, but does cost a lot of money and takes up space.


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## sunnyVan (Jun 12, 2015)

I regret getting a kit (1,2,3 stops soft). In hindsight I would have benefited more from 2 3-stop soft and 1 2-stop hard.


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## keithfullermusic (Jun 12, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> My kit contains the following grad ND's.
> 
> 
> 2 stop soft
> ...


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## NancyP (Jun 12, 2015)

I live in hilly Missouri. Soft for me - irregular tree line.


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## TexPhoto (Jun 12, 2015)

My kit includes:
Bracketing
Photoshop
And for fun occasionally HDR.


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## keithfullermusic (Jun 12, 2015)

TexPhoto said:


> My kit includes:
> Bracketing
> Photoshop
> And for fun occasionally HDR.



while bracketing in nice, i much prefer the look of filters (and the speed). also, hdr typically looks super processed and cannot mimic the look of long exposures. but, to each their own.


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## retroreflection (Jun 12, 2015)

For me, grads are used right at sunrise/set. I find inverse grads to be best for that. Mostly over water, so harder transitions are better.
What I'm waiting for is a spot grad for the moon in proximity to other things.


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## GuyF (Jun 12, 2015)

I had the same dilemma before buying mine. Did all my homework and once I was decided, I would find a contradictory bit of advice on the net with examples to confuse me further. Check out Flickr for Lee 0.6 & 0.9 hard/soft ND stuff and it might help sway you.

Wound up with Lee due to reputation (had a Cokin ND for years but it wasn't very good optically). The Lee site recommends a 0.6 hard if you only buy one filter. Got that and a 0.9 soft just to hedge my bets. The transition on the Lee filters is quite gentle even on the hard grad.

I wouldn't bother with the 3-filter kit as I doubt most people would use a 1-stop ND. Though, of course, you could double the filters up to give 4-stops etc (0.9+0.3). Thankfully the net is full of conflicting info so needless to say I found a site (I forget which one) that says adding two ND filters together reduces light transmission by more than each filter rating added together. Confused? Good, join the club.

The only other things I would add are if you get only hard NDs, there will be the occaision where you really need soft and vice versa. Life's like that. If you get the 105mm polariser, it won't vignette at 16mm as long as you use the WA adapter ring.

Hope it all works out for you.

Almost forgot to add, I found Robert White Photography are the cheapest for Lee stuff by a few quid. Next day delivery too.


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## Zeidora (Jun 12, 2015)

I have both, but tend to use the hards more. If you have used softs and they were too soft, then there's your answer. I also find the softs generally too soft.


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## lilmsmaggie (Jun 12, 2015)

keithfullermusic said:


> so, i thought i'd keep the ND discussion going. if you have to choose either a kit of hard grads or a kit of soft grads, which would you choose. i understand that you want both, but i'm only going to be able to invest in one set at the start.
> 
> before, i've only ever used the soft ones, but i really felt like they were mostly too soft. the top of the sky would be like 2 stops darker than the bottom, and i'd always end up having to brighten it up in post. however, i've never used the hard grads, so i'm worried that they might be too limiting.
> 
> ...




I would think you would want to have both hard edge and soft edge. Hard edge where you have a cleary defined level horizon, otherwise you might use a soft edge.


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## siegsAR (Jun 13, 2015)

0.6 Hard Grad
0.6 Soft Grad
0.9 Reverse Grad

All Hitech-Formatt; those are the grads in my kit. I have no favorite, but I sometimes use the soft grad with horizon/seascape scenes over the hard grad. I like the very subtle (yet its there) look of the soft grad; w/ the HG I need to be accurate-ish on the horizon. If my SG was 0.3 rated, I won't do that approach its just too subtle.

I live in the Philippines, tropical, couple minutes away from the beach and 15mins. walk to the nearest hill; that's why my SG and HG filters have about the same mileage between them. The reverse grad is used almost all of the time during sunrise and sunsets.

As for long exposure w/ non grad ND, image averaging is very promising, and gives cleaner results. But there still be ample time of processing needed. I still love my 10-stop ND though.

Here; Long Exposures W/o Filters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3m9k76uf5k


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## keithfullermusic (Jun 13, 2015)

siegsAR said:


> 0.6 Hard Grad
> 0.6 Soft Grad
> 0.9 Reverse Grad
> 
> ...



that average technique is brilliant. of course you can always just take as many as you want and have PS average them instead of being limited by your camera.


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## RobertG. (Jun 14, 2015)

Hi, for a couple of years I have regularly these filters with me

0.3 soft
0.6 soft
0.75 soft
0.9 soft
0.3 hard
0.6 hard
0.9 hard
0.6 reverse grad
0.9 reverse grad

From all of them I use the 0.6 soft edge filter the most. Maybe in 70% of all shots in which grad nd filters are used. For sunsets and sunrises I use the reverse grads a lot. The 0.6 reverse grad is used a bit more often than the 0.9 reverse grad. The hard edge ones are hardly ever used. I think I never used the 0.9 hard edge in a real shot. Sometimes I use the 0.3 hard edge in combination with the 0.6 soft edge. The 0.75 soft edge is relatively new in my kit (about a year). But still the 0.6 soft edge filter is used more often and it clearly shows on the filter itself. 
I also use a 105mm pol filter, sometimes by itself but more often in combination with a grad nd filter. In the end it depends on the scene and the light. While shooting a sunset it makes no sense to use a pol filter or normal grad nd filter. A reverse grad nd filter is the only useful choice in this situation.


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## Hector1970 (Jun 18, 2015)

Unless you have a clean line of horizon I always think soft is best. 
By 0.9 the line does show up if the horizon isn't a straight line. 
I find soft more flexible I'd often use more than one at a time if I want to further darken the top end of the photo.
I use Lee even though they are expensive. They easily scratch and I can tell you from bitter experience 10 stop filters don't bounce. They good however. Hitech have come along way. I have a set of their too including a 16- Stop Filter. Its good to see a bit of competition.
If you have a reasonably lone shutter speed using the black cloth technique works surprisingly well as an alternative to a graduated filter.


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