# Need quick advice Please and thanks! Choir photoshoot!



## kennephoto (Oct 9, 2012)

Hey everyone I have a choir I am photographing this Saturday the 13th and I was hoping to get your opinions on what lens I should rent for this. I was thinking about the Canon 16-35L Canon 14L or maybe the Sigma 12-24. The choir is about 50 kids and the director wants the something different than the typical riser shots, anyone got any ideas on large group shots? Thank you in advance to potential replies!


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## AdamJ (Oct 10, 2012)

Will it be on a FF body? If so, I would think the 16-35mm would be wide enough even for whatever creative options you consider. If you use anything wider, you would need to be careful with the stretching effect towards the frame edges which can be especially unflattering with human subjects.


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## Standard (Oct 10, 2012)

Depending on how the choir will be situated, ie. how they're sitting and being positioned, and the distance you have to work with, I would use either a 24L II or 35L on a full-frame. I prefer either of these over the 16-35L when doing group shots. The 14L will work but it will change the scaling quite a bit as it will take in more of the surroundings and reduces the individual faces. As AdamJ mentioned, you'll also need to frame the entire choir closer to the center line so as not to distort any individuals standing on either sides. You will also need a good, sturdy tripod and remote (or set the camera on timer).


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

Yes on my 5d Mark II, thanks for the quick reply. I havent used anything wider than 24mm on full-frame so Im not sure how wide 16mm is.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 10, 2012)

kennephoto said:


> I havent used anything wider than 24mm on full-frame so Im not sure how wide 16mm is.



16mm is 50% wider than 24mm. For example, at 10' distance, 24mm frames a 15'x10', and 16mm frames 22.5'x15'.


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

So it sounds like we're leaning towards the 16-35? I just dont think 24mm is going to be wide enough for creativity.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 10, 2012)

You did not ask about lighting. Do you have lights? A single flash will not light a area wider than 24mm, so you will need multiple lights for creative settings.


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

I have a 580ex ii and light stands and a pair wireless triggers


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## picturesbyme (Oct 10, 2012)

Exactly. How do you plan to light them? (I see you answered already.. this happens if I do several things in the same time..  )
You said the director don't want the usual stuff... so I'd think you'll need the idea first, then the tool/s to make it happen... or you want the tool/s first and see what happens?
How about a shoot from above. Will this be indoors or out? Any nice location nearby..?


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## IIIHobbs (Oct 10, 2012)

I say work with what you got. Renting something new, for this is likely to be unsuccessful for you. Use the equipment you are familiar with in a way that you know will give you a good result. Trying to go wide to get this in one shot is likely to disappoint everyone. A multi shot pan or scan may allow you to creat a higher resolution image with your 50 or 40. Investigate your location and set up the group in a way that will allow you to capture the best images.


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

Ha well maybe I shouldn't have started a thread, I'm starting to lose some confidence in doing this. A photographer friend referred me the shoot because she was busy and the director is doing this rather last minute. The photos need to be submitted by the 15th. Can you light a group of 50 with 2 580 exii's? I know theres several places in the high school he thought to take photos and there was an outdoor area we brainstormed.


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## picturesbyme (Oct 10, 2012)

Don't give up.. 
I'd find 2-3 helpers (friends, family) ... go to the locations... and do some tests.


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## TAF (Oct 10, 2012)

kennephoto said:


> 50 kids and the director wants the something different than the typical riser shots



What sort of choir is it? If a church choir, perhaps you could do the shoot outside, and arrange them in a cross arrangement, while photographing from above (perhaps the roof or from the announcers box at a nearby football field if available)?

Or maybe if they're into peace songs, in the shape of a peace symbol?

That sort of thing...

Outdoors makes lighting a bit easier (sometimes).


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

Its a high school choir and the photos are being submitted to the MMEA organization. I like the idea of the football field or something to that effect. I know there is a music room, a theater with balcony, and a cafeteria that has a upper level over looking.


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## picturesbyme (Oct 10, 2012)

kennephoto said:


> Its a high school choir and the photos are being submitted to the MMEA organization. I like the idea of the football field or something to that effect. I know there is a music room, a theater with balcony, and a cafeteria that has a upper level over looking.



That's what I was talking about... shoot from high up. 
Get them around the tables. You can play with colors, formations. 
You can even do one table at a time.. then put them together..
It's really more fun than frustration...


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## TAF (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm with Picturesbyme; have fun with it.

What is their mascot? Perhaps arrange the choir in that shape, with different folks wearing different colors (school colors, of course) to create a colorful image.


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

I wonder if Hobbs is right, maybe I should avoid what renting what I haven't used and stick with what I have. Maybe neuros dimensions about the wideness of the 16mm and 24mm are right. I would imagine 50 people would fit in with a 24mm. I probably shouldn't be worrying about it right now but the shoot is coming up soon and renting a lens timeframe is dwindling. And thank you picturesbyme for the encouragement!


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

TAF said:


> I'm with Picturesbyme; have fun with it.
> 
> What is their mascot? Perhaps arrange the choir in that shape, with different folks wearing different colors (school colors, of course) to create a colorful image.



Good point TAF I'm not sure of the mascot or what the students will be wearing. I'm not sure if they have choir outfits or just street clothes. I never thought about that I will have to contact the director and ask. Thanks for that bit of advice!


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## Halfrack (Oct 10, 2012)

Stick with the glass you have, if you're going to rent anything, grab some big strobes. Maybe some alien bees and grids? If you wanted to play with a lens, maybe a fishy 8-15mm? Kind of a huddle shot from the floor looking up?


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## FTb-n (Oct 10, 2012)

If you're stuck indoors, maybe rent or borrow a couple more flash units and umbrellas. I shot large groups for my kids' school last year and used two silver umbrellas each with four Yongnuo 460ii about 15-20 feet back. Google "photograph large groups" and you will get a bunch of ideas.

Maybe the two 580's direct with no diffusion will give enough light. With your 5DII, you can afford to up the ISO a bit. If you're new to shooting large groups, like I was (and still am) the biggest thing that impressed me from my shoot was the real affect of the inverse square law with light (see the Adorama video below). With a few rows of people, you need to move the light back a bit to make sure the lighting on all three rows is relatively even. If the light is too close, the front row will likely be much brighter than the back rows. And when you move the light back for large groups, you lose a lot of light in a hurry (especially if the walls and ceilings aren't white). Check out the video and the others on Adorama about inverse square law.

http://www.adorama.com/alc/article/13036

Another tip, bring your laptop and shoot tethered with DPP and the EOS Utility. It is a big help to see the affects right away and be able to experiment with lighting. Of course, this helps with patient subjects. Maybe ask them to practice singing while you get the lighting right.

Of course, if you can find something outside, then ... nevermind.

Good luck and please update us on how it went.


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## IIIHobbs (Oct 10, 2012)

Cafeteria shot (from above) for a HS Choir could be fun. Lighting in Cafeteria may be harsh, but you can adjust color later. If the Choir has a banner, set it out on one of the tables, have them arrange around it, have fun, keep it simple.
Go for it and dont be afraid to have multiple takes. This shouldnt be one set up and one shot. Move the kids around, get them involved, make it fun (but not silly of course).


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## kennephoto (Oct 10, 2012)

All good advice coming my way I really appreciate this! I talked to a friend and shes going to let me borrow her 580ex ii and her 17-40L! So that should help a bunch too! I will write down all your ideas and bring them with! I will probably shoot tethered as well that could help a bunch it seems and maybe I will bring my sister if she is free, shes been in choirs for school from grade school thru college.


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## picturesbyme (Oct 15, 2012)

Don't forget to let us know how it went.


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## kennephoto (Oct 18, 2012)

It went very well actually! Im attaching some samples.


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## FTb-n (Dec 23, 2012)

Thanks for sharing the results, they look great. I love the composition and will remembers these when I need ideas for my next group shot.

What lighting did you end up using for the indoor shots?


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## kennephoto (Feb 15, 2013)

Hey thanks for the comments, sorry I forgot to reply it gets lost in the vast amounts of posts on this site, the indoor group shot was just 2 580ex ii's and the outdoor shots were just natural light.


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