# Mirror slap on 7DII and just one lens



## AlanF (Feb 8, 2016)

I tested some of my lenses over the weekend to see if they need recalibrating on my 5DIII and 7DII. It was a simple test of comparing AF with live view of an iso12233 chart, with the centre rings just resolvable. To my surprise, all were fine except one of my two 100-400mm IIs. In live view it was sharper than the other lens but in one-shot it was bad. However, with mirror lock up or silent shooting it sharpened up. The shutter speed was slow.

Has anyone else experienced observable mirror slap with the 7DII? And, why does it happen with just one particular lens?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 8, 2016)

I believe 100-400mm was the longest lens you tested. The recommendation to always test and calibrate lens in good light, prevents vibrations affect your test. A solid tripod as rock would help a lot, but the ideal is to use fast speed to freeze motion.


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## AlanF (Feb 8, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I believe 100-400mm was the longest lens you tested. The recommendation to always test and calibrate lens in good light, prevents vibrations affect your test. A solid tripod as rock would help a lot, but the ideal is to use fast speed to freeze motion.



Thanks. I tested 2 100-400mm IIs at 400 and 560mm, and a 300mm/2.8 II +1.4xTC at 420mm. It was just one of the 100-400mms that had a problem.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 8, 2016)

AlanF said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > I believe 100-400mm was the longest lens you tested. The recommendation to always test and calibrate lens in good light, prevents vibrations affect your test. A solid tripod as rock would help a lot, but the ideal is to use fast speed to freeze motion.
> ...


You used the stabilizer mode, equally in all long lenses? It would be better to turn off the IS, and use 1/800 shutter speed to prevent other variables in the test.


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## Orangutan (Feb 8, 2016)

When I did AFMA on my 70D and 100-400(classic) a little over a year ago, mirror slap was a major problem. It took me hours of re-testing in various ways until it occurred to me what was happening. I believe I found 1/320th was just good enough to limit vibration, but mirror lockup was better.

You might check that settings on both lenses are the same (e.g. IS options)

Also, if I recall, Neuroanatomist has a guide to AFMA that's very much worth reading.


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## Orangutan (Feb 8, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > ajfotofilmagem said:
> ...



+1


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## AlanF (Feb 8, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > AlanF said:
> ...



I AFMA my lenses using FoCal, which automatically turns on mirror lock up and I turn off IS. My problem is with just one lens when I am using the lenses without mirror lock up and the IS on.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 8, 2016)

If I understand right, your tests always have IS switched off, and all lenses work. But after calibrating, in normal use it appears the problem with IS, only one lens.

It seems to me that your lens should take a trip to the authorized service Canon.


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## AlanF (Feb 8, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> If I understand right, your tests always have IS switched off, and all lenses work. But after calibrating, in normal use it appears the problem with IS, only one lens.
> 
> It seems to me that your lens should take a trip to the authorized service Canon.


Fortunately, it's less than a year old with a Canon warranty.

I would like to know if anyone else has problems.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 8, 2016)

AlanF said:


> I tested some of my lenses over the weekend to see if they need recalibrating on my 5DIII and 7DII. It was a simple test of comparing AF with live view of an iso12233 chart, with the centre rings just resolvable. To my surprise, all were fine except one of my two 100-400mm IIs. In live view it was sharper than the other lens but in one-shot it was bad. However, with mirror lock up or silent shooting it sharpened up. The shutter speed was slow.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced observable mirror slap with the 7DII? And, why does it happen with just one particular lens?



Make sure IS is off for the tests, just in case its not working right while the lens is on a tripod. If that fixes the issue, then send the lens for repair.


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## AlanF (Feb 8, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > I tested some of my lenses over the weekend to see if they need recalibrating on my 5DIII and 7DII. It was a simple test of comparing AF with live view of an iso12233 chart, with the centre rings just resolvable. To my surprise, all were fine except one of my two 100-400mm IIs. In live view it was sharper than the other lens but in one-shot it was bad. However, with mirror lock up or silent shooting it sharpened up. The shutter speed was slow.
> ...



The lens is better with IS on.


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## takesome1 (Feb 8, 2016)

It would seem logical to me to check the plates and foot attachment of the questionable lens.
Then see if there is any thing different about how it attaches mechanically to the body.
It may be that it isn't lens slap, rather something else that just becomes apparent when the mirror is not locked up because of the extra vibration the lens produces.

After that I would set up with just the 7D II in a different location and see if it is repeatable.

If so then; 
Maybe there is something loose in the IS mechanism or inside the lens that is causing this.
I would ship it off to Canon.

You are probably in a better position than most to give advice on the lens. Most people do not own 2 copies and wouldn't know if it is abnormal.

Also you might not notice the difference in the two lenses with the 5D III. Less resolution, different crops and distances. Even if you account for the "crop factor" and shoot at the same distance the 7D II's resolution would show it before the 5D III's.

Finally you have 2 copies? I guess you know which to keep and which to sell.

Edit; Also to answer your question, I have never seen it as a problem (other than what it is typically) with my 7D II on any lens all the way through the 500mm with 2x III attached.


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## nhz (Feb 9, 2016)

Sounds a bit like the spurious problems of the Nikon 4/300PF lens in the 1/30sec - 1/250sec range that are supposedly caused by interaction of mirror slap and vibrations in the IS system of the lens. User experiences are all over the place, and it is clear that the problem varies between different bodies and can depend on small changes like adding a grip, tripod clamp or even a lens hood. 

Although the 4/300PF is probably an extreme case, it wouldn't surprise me if many combo's with IS unit have similar problem to some extent, if you look for it. It would probably be more obvious with long lenses and with cameras with stronger mirror/shutter vibration (the 7D2 with its fast mechanism probably qualifies). 

Obviously, with such problems testing on tripod will not say much about actual hand-held performance, whatever IS setting one is using when the camera is mounted on tripod. Attaching the tripod makes huge changes to the vibration characteristics of the system.


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## Luds34 (Feb 9, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> When I did AFMA on my 70D and 100-400(classic) a little over a year ago, mirror slap was a major problem. It took me hours of re-testing in various ways until it occurred to me what was happening. I believe I found 1/320th was just good enough to limit vibration, but mirror lockup was better.
> 
> You might check that settings on both lenses are the same (e.g. IS options)
> 
> Also, if I recall, Neuroanatomist has a guide to AFMA that's very much worth reading.



Haha, I just had this problem AFMA'ing a 100mm F/2.8L macro on my 6D. Thankfully it didn't take as long as you to figure out that it was the mirror. I was shooting around 1/40th shutter which I'm sure is a sweetspot for mirror shake.

Keep in mind too, that being on a rigid tripod will only compound the issue of vibration, resonance, etc. Contrast that to hand holding where just the flesh, soft tissue of hour hands will absorb the shock from the mirror and not allow it to oscillate (even if ever so slight) as it will/can on the tripod.


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## AlanF (Feb 10, 2016)

I have done a very careful series of shots at different shutter speeds, using a very tight resolution, a line pair occupying just 3pixels. On both 100-400mm II lenses, silent shooting on the 7DII showed no mirror slap down to 1/60 sec, the longest measured. There was some mirror slap in standard one-shot mode, the worst being about 1/100 - 1/160 sec. It was very small, and I don't think you would see it on the larger pixels of a 5DIII or 1DX.

In future, I will use silent shooting as the norm below 1/250 sec. Above that, that there was mirror slap at all in standard mode. 

Interestingly, using a 1.4xTC eliminated the slap. There was no slap with the 300/2.8 II + 1.4xTC. The 100-400mm II is really sharp, but the big prime with the TC is even sharper.


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## takesome1 (Feb 10, 2016)

AlanF said:


> I have done a very careful series of shots at different shutter speeds, using a very tight resolution, a line pair occupying just 3pixels. On both 100-400mm II lenses, silent shooting on the 7DII showed no mirror slap down to 1/60 sec, the longest measured. There was some mirror slap in standard one-shot mode, the worst being about 1/100 - 1/160 sec. It was very small, and I don't think you would see it on the larger pixels of a 5DIII or 1DX.
> 
> In future, I will use silent shooting as the norm below 1/250 sec. Above that, that there was mirror slap at all in standard mode.
> 
> Interestingly, using a 1.4xTC eliminated the slap. There was no slap with the 300/2.8 II + 1.4xTC. The 100-400mm II is really sharp, but the big prime with the TC is even sharper.



I assume you are just talking about 400mm and not 100mm.
At 1/160 with my long lens I do not expect great results when shooting wildlife or birds. 
Usually I have pushed the ISO to its limit by that point and put the aperture wide open.
Maybe lens slap is an issue slower than 1/160 however I have always contributed the low IQ to aperture and ISO.

So from your post, both lenses function exactly the same now?


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## AlanF (Feb 10, 2016)

Yes, 400mm. I normally like to use 1/250 s or faster to minimise movement of the subject. Both lenses are more similar than I originally thought. The lack of slap with silent mode is remarkably good. I hope my postings on this are of use to others.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 11, 2016)

AlanF said:


> The lack of slap with silent mode is remarkably good. I hope my postings on this are of use to others.


Yes, your tests are useful for many users in Canon Rumors.
Thanks for sharing.


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