# Blindly pre-order 5D4 - Why NOT



## Diko (Aug 21, 2016)

After some time has passed and more rumor details regarding the *5D4* appeared why am I ready to _*blindly *_pre-order *5D4*? And why I believe some people should*n't* be upset with the rumored specs. 

I think *5D4* is a *decent* time for an upgrade, but would you agree with my arguments?

Also feel free to consider it as a summary of my *5 years* experience on this forum.

*3 years* ago I wrote here that CANON *is listening* to speculations and desires expressed in sites like *CR*. IMHO especially *CR*!


Diko said:


> When one reads this whole topic, he/she would stay with the impression that everyone's happy with CANONs doings...
> ....
> *Better concentrate on what you WANT!*
> Not on EXPLAINING Canon's reasoning.
> ...


Undoubtedly I believe this forum is a place which many people visit even without registering. Here opinions are created. A lot is learnt and many why's are being answered.

*2 years* later in *March 2015* Canon's Managing Director and Chief Executive, Image Communication Products Operations - *Masaya Maeda said*:


> _We’re currently in the process of investigating, mainly to satisfy the needs of news media, and we have every intention of addressing this need in *future products*._


Many would say that *CR *is no *NEWS MEDIA*, but actually many bloggers and journalists come here as this is a good shortcut to learn how new CANON DSLR is being perceived. Ergo they write about it later on.

He also mentioned back then:


> _Personally, I think we’re slow as well. One of our themes now as a company is upon developing a new technology, to shorten the time between development and when that technology is introduced into a product. We need to shorten that time._



In *September* _the same year_ *he added*:


> _Right now, we use both on-chip and off-chip, but recently I made the decision going forward to concentrate on the on-chip._


and


> _The intent is to increase the performance. In terms of cost, this may be a little negative, but in terms of the direction to take, this will make us more competitive._



The interviewer, _*Dave Etchells*_, explained:


> _*Some* have pointed to the use of off-chip A/D converters as *contributing to lower dynamic range* numbers for Canon sensors, when *compared* to those of Nikon and others in tests such as those *published on DxOMark.com*. Because separate A/D converters require transmitting analog signals from the image sensor to the converter, more electrical noise can enter the signal chain, resuting in higher noise floors. On-sensor A/D also enables massive parallelism in the A/D conversion, and thereby higher frame rates and possibly lower rolling shutter artifacts._


and 


> _There was some speculation that Canon was locked out of this technology by patents held by Sony and others._



*IMHO *those additional production costs may be due to the *SONY & CANON SENSOR (PATENT) PARTNERSHIP*:


> *Sony *will make them and they will have *EXMOR *technology, for *Canon *they will get the *DualPixel AF*. So it’s a *patent exchange* that helps both companies. Sony will still sell the sensors to *Nikon*, but only *without* the *DualPixel* technology.


However no matter if speculations or not. The results both _*on paper*_ and _*in real life*_ show a *stable *improvement on the above mentioned "_*future products*_" so far.

*I. The results and the reasons why I am going to blindly pre-order it*

*1/* Increased *DR *in the current generation CMOS even _according to DxOmark_ (*1dx* = *11.8* Evs VS *1Dx2* = *13.5* Evs & *80D* = *13.2* Evs), who only took in consideration what was on sensor excluding the rest of circuitry thus rating previous generation Canon DSLRs much lower. I doubt that anyone expects from Canon to release its next iteration of the most successful DSLR line with less than those *13.somehting* Evs.

*2/* Increased resolution, which combined with better *DR* and increased *ISO *(please note "*New noise reduction algorithm*", let's hope it's *before* RAW output and not *JPEG related* only) will make *IMHO *a game changer, and a *true value for its price* DSLR body. Please note that a few innovations compared to *1Dx2* are in place. I wouldn't be surprised if _*Techradar change their mind*_ after getting their hands on *5D4*.

*3/* True unseen innovation. Whatever people speculate *DPRAW *is twice the size of regular RAW (*DP*RAW: *66.9* Mb. vs RAW: *36.8* Mb.). That's for a reason. 
The question that remains is if Canon will *give license* and *share *the *know-how* to operate to Adobe (*LR*, *CR* for PS usage) and Phase One (*C1*).

*4/* And all the other little *goodness*: TimeLapse, _finally _an electronic leveling, GPS, WiFi, USB 3.0, 7 fps. 

There's even [email protected]:2:2 and weird [email protected] Slow Mo. The first is awesome, but I doubt I will make such great use of it. And the latter which could be IMHO much much better.

I am still missing though:
- the "*tilty flippy*" display (_super usefull for events_) 
- *[email protected]* fps or higher (_if I could only utilize my Canon EF glass on my smartphone it woulnd't be that much of a problem_) 
- Voice notes attached to the image (_It might be there, or could be added via firmware update or ML can provided_) 

*II. And to all those people that needed more than:*

*1/* *7* fps. Go buy a 1Dx2 (*14.0* fps) or 7D2 (*10.0* fps) and shut up! 

Back in December 2001 *the first 1D had* "*Approx.* 8 fps in high-speed continuous shooting drive mode". 

And as _*Neuro *_ pointed out the obvious:


neuroanatomist said:


> I liked the suggestion that the 5DIII at 6 fps is "pretty damn slow". It's a helluva lot faster than a thumb...


 
For such fine granularity in capturing the moment I really believe that this either must be _*your job that pays your bills*_ *AND* you are _*in action photography*_ *OR* simply a whim for luxury treatment. Both deserve paying the extra dollar for *1Dx2* _*or*_ committing the trade off for its smaller-in-sensor brother *7D2*. 

A third option is to buy *NIKON D820* instead? Word has it it will have 153-point system that has 99 cross-type and 70-80 MPs. Can't find it, but someone claimed 14 fps as well. For me it's a pure overkill and besides all my glass is (for) Canon.

*2/* Missing *IBIS*. No need since even a low-light fan like me will manage to handle shaking with the help of them *30Mps*, *ISO* and *good quality glass*. And NO! For God's sake IS on *BOTH* Glass & Body will NOT make blur from shaking disappear. This ain't simple first grade math problem. It's complicated physics of light, where even Gravity matters.

*3/* Stupid comparison with _*SONYNIKONPENTAXHASSELBLADPHASEONE*_. Screw it! 

*a)* Sony had a huge benefit from their IMX161 CMOS *MF*, their IMX094 *FF* sensors and many other before that. It is damn good CMOS sensor vendor.






But others seem to catch up accroding to the: *2016 Chip World's predictions*


> There has been a steady evolution in the image sensor biz, with Sony leading the pack, and culminating in the deep-trench isolation between pixels in the Apple 6s/6s Plus camera. Sony has had a two year+ lead in stacking the sensor on top of the image processor and connecting the two with custom TSVs, but we now see *OmniVision *and *Samsung *with design wins using multiple versions of its new stacked chip products



*b)* Never-the-less however the only true competitor in the photography equipment *still stays NIKON*. And they don't seem to get ahead in sales. There must be a reason for that.


rrcphoto said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting, is that canon now holds nearly a 50% of the overall marketshare.
> ...


 Most probably as he also mentioned his source is *CIPA*.

*6/* Waiting for *5D5*. Skipping so much innovation on purpose is a total nonsense, because for me *5D3* had only a shy improvement in the main numbers at best with a few *1Dx* stolen features for better sales even *lacking WiFi*. Actually not a bad camera, but not that good either. Because it didn't worth the price asked.

Both NIKON & CANON show trend of steady slowing pace on new model iteration releases.
No matter if it's for _*profit*_ or _*lack of enough R&D*_ reasons the truth is obvious!

*NIKON*:





*CANON*





Probably *5D5* would be available somewhere around *2022*. ;-) And that is *ONLY *if until then CANON doesn't decide to _*stop *the series_.

All that being said why would *you* blindly pre-order? Or why *NOT*. Would you upgrade your *5D3* or the new features aren't that attractive? Would you upgrade APS-H *1D Mark IV*?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 21, 2016)

There are some things to consider, and they depend entirely on your situation.

1. When you get the camera, Your editing software will likely not work with the CR2 files for a month or 6. Phase One, DXO, Adobe, ACDSEE, - only DPP will work fully. If you are a pro with a established work flow, it means the camera is just a toy while waiting.

2. Third Party Flash Units seem to have a way of needing firmware updates, same with the remote triggers.

3. New camera models usually break the reverse engineering of at least a few third party lenses, there is no way to know until the camera gets in your hands.

4. Accessories are usually not available, even Canon new accessories take a few months to be available. Third party items like L Brackets, grips, etc take time to design and develop, so more months of waiting.

So evaluate your situation, be prepared to set the camera to raw + jpeg or use DPP while waiting for your favorite photo editor to be updated for raw. If you use third party lenses, hope that they will still work with the new camera.


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## Diko (Aug 21, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > why am I ready to _*blindly *_pre-order *5D4*?
> ...


 TL;DR kind of guy, now are you? And/or too hard for you to digest information? Don't worry, that Dyslexia thing is not that bad... after some time you'll get used to it.


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## Diko (Aug 21, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> There are some things to consider, and they depend entirely on your situation.
> 
> 1. When you get the camera, Your editing software will likely not work with the CR2 files for a month or 6. Phase One, DXO, Adobe, ACDSEE, - only DPP will work fully. If you are a pro with a established work flow, it means the camera is just a toy while waiting.
> 
> ...



Good points about the "blind" part. And yet I don't rely my income on that body. 

As for: 

1/ It is always like that. The question is if they would open the DPRAW to other software.
2/ Now this will be interesting, but it's not that much of income dependent.
3/ "_break the reverse engineering of at least a few third party lenses_" - could you please elaborate.
4/ I don't expect to need any accessories except for the grip at some point. As it seems most of the accessories I have would easily fit the new-old body.

I haven't used touch screen so far with any DSLR. Now hat would be something new for me.

Usually in the quarter after release an update is released. By that time I will be testing and experimenting with the body mainly. 

By "blind" I wanted to stress that this iteration is better than the last one. Not in absolute way, but more like innovations added and value. And that in the last couple of years Canon failed to meet my (and many others) expectations, but since the beginning of 2015 things changed for the good.


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## Wesley (Aug 21, 2016)

I enjoyed reading this with my popcorn & soda


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 22, 2016)

Diko said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > There are some things to consider, and they depend entirely on your situation.
> ...



What I am referring to is the firmware that resides in all electronic lenses and which communicates with the camera. Third party lens makers reverse engineer the communication protocols, but have no access to the actual capability that resides in the lenses.

Thus, nearly every major new Canon Camera which makes changes in autofocus or lens communication with the cameras is incompatible with a few third party lenses and they need updates to work. Several were updated after the 1DX II arrived, we have no way to know at this point if we will see issues, but if the past is any indicator, we will.

Some Examples:

http://www.canonrumors.com/sigma-firmware-updates-resolve-metering-issue-with-1d-x-mark-ii/

From Sigma:

Thank you for purchasing and using our products.

We would like to announce the availability of new firmware and support for the applicable lenses regarding the phenomenon that exposure of the image may not be accurate, which was announced on May 27th, 2016. This happens when some SIGMA interchangeable lenses for CANON are used on Canon EOS 1DX Mark II.

If you own the following applicable products, please refer to the information below and update the lens firmware accordingly.

Benefit of this firmware update
The lens firmware update corrects the phenomenon of some underexposure when the lenses listed below are used and either “Evaluative Metering” or “Center-weighted Average Metering” is selected in Metering Mode of the camera.

Applicable products
SIGMA 20mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art – Canon mount
SIGMA 35mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art – Canon mount
SIGMA 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM – Canon mount

For customers who own the applicable products listed above, the lens firmware update will be provided free of charge. Please contact your nearest authorized subsidiary/distributors of SIGMA.

For customers who own the SIGMA USB DOCK, and either the SIGMA 20mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art Canon or the SIGMA 35mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art Canon, please update the lens firmware using SIGMA Optimization Pro.

We appreciate your continued support for our company and products.


Read more: http://www.canonrumors.com/sigma-firmware-updates-resolve-metering-issue-with-1d-x-mark-ii/#ixzz4I18H01mT



http://www.tamron-usa.com/about/updates_canon.php

"A notice regarding compatibility issue with
the EOS-1D X Mark II and availability of firmware update service (about AF functions on Live View mode)

Dear users and potential purchasers of Tamron interchangeable lenses for Canon.
Thank you for using Tamron products.

We wish to notify you that the AF functions of the following interchangeable lenses for Canon, which have been produced before May 11th, 2015 and have not been updated when there were the firmware update service announcements below, do not function in Live View mode when used on the EOS-1D X Mark II which went on sale on April 28th, 2016 in Japan.

*Please see the below links for the previous firmware update service announcements regarding the EOS Rebel T6s/EOS 760D (EOS 8000D) / the EOS Rebel T6i/ EOS 750D (EOS Kiss X8i), the EOS 5Ds / the EOS 5DsR, the EOS 80D, and the firmware update service for SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC USD (Model A011) for panning shot.

http://www.tamron.co.jp/en/news/release_2015/0508_3.html
http://www.tamron.co.jp/en/news/release_2015/0508.html
http://www.tamron.co.jp/en/news/release_2015/0622_3.html
http://www.tamron.co.jp/en/news/release_2016/0406.html

We sincerely apologize to all users and potential purchasers for any inconvenience the issue may cause.

■ Affected models
Interchangeable lenses for Canon, which has been produced before May 11th

・SP 15-30mm F/2.8 Di VC USD (Model A012）
・SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD (Model A009）
・SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC USD (Model A011）
・SP 90mm F/2.8 Di MACRO 1:1 VC USD (Model F004）
・28-300mm F/3.5-6.3 Di VC PZD (Model A010）
・16-300mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II VC PZD MACRO (Model B016） "


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 22, 2016)

BTW, I'm not saying that you should hold off on buying one, just providing a list of issues that often cause grief to a few photographers who feel blindsided.

As long as you are aware of the potentials and have a work-around, by all means, grab one.


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## IglooEater (Aug 22, 2016)

To answer your final question, if I had the money, I would absolutely pre-order one. Every new camera is better than the one it replaces, and would be astronomically better than my current rig. 

On a side not, all the red and *bold* and


> quotes


 make your extensive article a real pain to read... :-/


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## rrcphoto (Aug 22, 2016)

Diko said:


> After some time has passed and more rumor details regarding the *5D4* appeared why am I ready to _*blindly *_pre-order *5D4*?



snip. the only thing that went blindly is me, after trying to read your post.

btw, there has been no announcement and not even rumors of a "SONY & CANON SENSOR (PATENT) PARTNERSHIP"

not sure where you got that .. Sony made that sensor for Samsung. if there was any patent it would have been there with Samsung if you are talking about the dual pixel AF chip for the S7. if you note, that technology was NEVER announced by Sony even in their phone sensor announcements. it was a on off for Samsung.

however, that in itself is moot since canon in the last few years HAS managed to get it's own on sensor ADC technology patented.


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## aa_angus (Aug 22, 2016)

The 5dIII already has electronic levelling bro


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## aa_angus (Aug 22, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> There are some things to consider, and they depend entirely on your situation.
> 
> 1. When you get the camera, Your editing software will likely not work with the CR2 files for a month or 6. Phase One, DXO, Adobe, ACDSEE, - only DPP will work fully. If you are a pro with a established work flow, it means the camera is just a toy while waiting.
> 
> ...




LOL, drops over 5G on a new body, yet is too stingy to buy Canon flashes.


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## mclaren777 (Aug 22, 2016)

Diko said:


> *3/* True unseen innovation. Whatever people speculate *DPRAW *is twice the size of regular RAW (*DP*RAW: *66.9* Mb. vs RAW: *36.8* Mb.). That's for a reason.
> The question that remains is if Canon will *give license* and *share *the *know-how* to operate to Adobe (*LR*, *CR* for PS usage) and Phase One (*C1*).



I can answer that for you right now: no, I don't think it's likely that anybody will support DPRAW besides Canon.


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## aa_angus (Aug 22, 2016)

mclaren777 said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > *3/* True unseen innovation. Whatever people speculate *DPRAW *is twice the size of regular RAW (*DP*RAW: *66.9* Mb. vs RAW: *36.8* Mb.). That's for a reason.
> ...



Yeah, it might take a whole two weeks until lightroom supports it


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## hovland (Aug 22, 2016)

Did a pre-pre-order back in April


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## YuengLinger (Aug 22, 2016)

Simple answer to original simple question: The 5DIII is a great camera that is ready right now, with proven virtues and known flaws, and can be bought new for $1000 USD less. The 1DX II is available right now for those who need something a little better AND have hands that fit its size.

There is absolutely no practical or business grounded reason to preorder a 5DIV (unless you are a self-publishing reviewer who won't get a trial body), but for those with an itch for new technology, it's your money, indulge!


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## aa_angus (Aug 22, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> Simple answer to original simple question: The 5DIII is a great camera that is ready right now, with proven virtues and known flaws, and can be bought new for $1000 USD less. The 1DX II is available right now for those who need something a little better AND have hands that fit its size.
> 
> There is absolutely no practical or business grounded reason to preorder a 5DIV (unless you are a self-publishing reviewer who won't get a trial body), but for those with an itch for new technology, it's your money, indulge!




Buying a 5DIII for *only* $1000 less seems pretty silly to me. The IV is going to blow it away. In the world of photography, $1000 isn't a whole lot, and you're going to sacrifice so much to save that amount.


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## Mikehit (Aug 22, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Simple answer to original simple question: The 5DIII is a great camera that is ready right now, with proven virtues and known flaws, and can be bought new for $1000 USD less. The 1DX II is available right now for those who need something a little better AND have hands that fit its size.
> ...



When the 5D3 is already so accomplished $1,000 is a whole lot of money and I doubt the 5D4 will 'blow it away'. The Mk4 may have useful functions but that does not necessarily affect the end result (image quality). 

When your choice is _either _a body _or _a lens, $1,000 is often quite significant.


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## deletemyaccount (Aug 22, 2016)

> When your choice is _either _a body _or _a lens, $1,000 is often quite significant.



That $1,000 can almost buy you a L lens. Valid point IMO.


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## j-nord (Aug 22, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > There are some things to consider, and they depend entirely on your situation.
> ...



There is a lot of high end lighting systems and in particular ETTL remotes that require reverse engineering. Not a case of being stingy...


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## YuengLinger (Aug 22, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Simple answer to original simple question: The 5DIII is a great camera that is ready right now, with proven virtues and known flaws, and can be bought new for $1000 USD less. The 1DX II is available right now for those who need something a little better AND have hands that fit its size.
> ...



You apparently missed my other points--saving $1000 on a great (by any standards) camera you can have delivered by tomorrow, rather than one incrementally better in a month or so, is not a negligible bonus, even in the world of photography.


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## j-nord (Aug 22, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > YuengLinger said:
> ...


Better yet, pick up a lightly used 5Diii and wait until the 5DIV is tested, reviewed, firmware fixes, software updates, price drop etc all occur.


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## Joe M (Aug 22, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> There are some things to consider, and they depend entirely on your situation.
> 
> 1. When you get the camera, Your editing software will likely not work with the CR2 files for a month or 6. Phase One, DXO, Adobe, ACDSEE, - only DPP will work fully. If you are a pro with a established work flow, it means the camera is just a toy while waiting.



This is very high if not top on my list of waiting to upgrade. In my opinion, new bodies should come out in January when my business it at it's lowest demand and I actually have time to become accustomed to the body (just in case menus have changed and so on and of course afma-ing all my lenses to it) and have time to wait for Adobe to catch up. 
Oh, and while my 5D3s have shortcomings, they do a fine job right now. They might even do a fine job while waiting for the initial prices to fall a bit (or my CAN$ to rise a bit).


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## LoneRider (Aug 22, 2016)

j-nord said:


> Better yet, pick up a lightly used 5Diii and wait until the 5DIV is tested, reviewed, firmware fixes, software updates, price drop etc all occur.



Really easy to say, but cash transactions in the $2000 area with a private individual are non-trivial. 

There is of course risk in buying a used $2000, what happens if it does not perform as expected?

And of course, the risk of selling the camera. The value of the used 5Diii probably won't drop too much, but you never know.

We have no idea how well Canon is prepared for the launch as well. A lot of unknowns. 

Which is why I am living with my 7D until I get my hands on a 5Div.


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## aa_angus (Aug 22, 2016)

I'm guessing that, as per usual, the camera will be fine as soon as it starts shipping. I shoot for a living, and I have no doubt that the 5DIV will perform excellently straight out of the box. There will be no disruption to my workflow whatsoever. Based on the specs, the IV looks a significantly better camera than the III, thus I see no problem whatsoever in buying one straight away. If you are looking to buy a 5DIII, surely it would make sense to wait until the IV us shipping so you save a few hundred dollars. The idea of buying a III right now is pretty dumb (in my opinion). Wait two weeks.


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## j-nord (Aug 22, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > Better yet, pick up a lightly used 5Diii and wait until the 5DIV is tested, reviewed, firmware fixes, software updates, price drop etc all occur.
> ...



Barely used 5diii's go for about $1800 on eBay now. eBay, paypal, refurbished, B&H used, Adorama used etc all have buyer protections. Buying from a random guy in a parking lot is a different story. Not everyone wants to/should buy used (especially if you are a pro and your living depends on the body) but if you are looking to pre-order a 5D4 you are also not looking use the body for pro work (for at least a couple months for the many reasons mentioned). If you are an enthusiast, buying and selling a used 5Diii while you wait for the 5D4 to get established is a very reasonable route IMO.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 23, 2016)

Why not? Because it's unlikely to have pipeline issues, so there is no advantage to preordering!


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## Ozarker (Aug 23, 2016)

Diko said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...



Nobody can say they "blindly" pre-ordered anything. You will know the full specifications before ordering. 

If you don't, then your problem is far worse than Dyslexia. There are probably people on this forum who have Dyslexia... so watch your mouth, iRambo. They've worked hard to overcome it.

Your writing isn't nearly interesting enough to read for the period of time it takes to read it. I sometimes post rambling posts. Your's wins the trophy though. I'll mail it to you tomorrow. :


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## Ozarker (Aug 23, 2016)

Wesley said:


> I enjoyed reading this with my popcorn & soda



I hope they were both extra large.


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## Ozarker (Aug 23, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Simple answer to original simple question: The 5DIII is a great camera that is ready right now, with proven virtues and known flaws, and can be bought new for $1000 USD less. The 1DX II is available right now for those who need something a little better AND have hands that fit its size.
> ...



When you sell your 5D Mark III may I have it for $1,000 less than fair market value? It isn't a lot of money. You won't mind.


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## aa_angus (Aug 23, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > YuengLinger said:
> ...



Yes, it's easy to completely change the context. Well done, you must be a very clever cookie. Paying $1000 less for the mark 3 when the mark 4 is available is a silly option in my opinion. I'm sure market value will suggest the III's drop to around 2000 below the mark 4.


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## Ozarker (Aug 23, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > aa_angus said:
> ...



Completely in context. "$1,000 is not a lot of money in the camera world."

You are entitled to your opinion. I just want your Mark III... for $1,000 less than fair market value.

For the guy that only has $2,000 - $2,500 to spend on a body the Mark III is a great buy and will be a great camera for many years to come. If he's a pro his business will not suffer because he doesn't have the Mark IV.


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## Drum (Aug 23, 2016)

Reasons to blindly pre-order
1. GAS
2. GAS
3. GAS
4. Bragging rights

Reasons to not blindly pre order;
1. Early price premium
2. early software issues
3. often happens there are "issues" with early production models eg5d3 light leak, 7d2 AF, any Nikon model-joke
4. No reviews you are going in blind as regards performance of the camera, agreed you have some knowledge that it will be a quality image but is it right for your needs i.e. High ISO, low ISO DR.

OK I have the tent ready to start camping outside the local shop....


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## Mikehit (Aug 23, 2016)

Drum said:


> Reasons to blindly pre-order
> 1. GAS
> 2. GAS
> 3. GAS
> ...



Don't forget bragging rights on identifying problems and joining cliquey little discussion groups on what the problem really is and what bug fixes need to be rolled out.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 23, 2016)

Pretty entertaining reading for a change. Even the OP was good for a laugh in its ramblings and format and for making some interesting observations. Unfortunately I didn't have popcorn.

Only one thing troubling to me. I want the 1DX II for various reasons (features), don't really need 14 fps and due to distance shots and cropping would prefer 30MPs. I think the 1DX II with a 400 DO would be great but that's really pricey so is the 5D4 with my 300 X2 a sensible option and forget a 1 series body. Tomorrow I'll see what the 5D4 lacks relative to the 1DX II and start watching for sample photos and reviews and wait a little longer before deciding - no pre-order if 5D4.

Jack


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## Diko (Aug 25, 2016)

A small and SHORT correction. 

It is weird how close the 5D4 is to the first 1Dx. A few people even said they will buy 1Dx2 only because of the price of Canon 5D4. In EU it costs aorund 4300 euro. Strictly for early adopters and rich kids. They will normalize it back for the holidays beginning with the EU Black Friday.


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