# R7 Focus and High Noise



## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

Hello! I hope that you can help me. I just got an R7 after shooting with a 7dmii with which I took tack sharp pictures. This is my first mirrorless, and I have worked with many different settings in the AF and Camera Menus. I have also reset the camera twice. Here are my issues:
1. All my pictures are in poor focus.
2. All my pictures are very noisy.

I have the following lenses, and the issue is with all of them.
1. Mount Adapter EF-EOS R Canon
2. Canon 24-105 f4
3. Canon 70-200 f2.8
4. Sigma 100-400 f5

I have taken hundreds of shots of ducks and flowers so that I would have stationary subjects and some subjects with slow movement.

I shoot in CRAW. Evaluative Meter. sRGB. HDrive. Electronic and Elec 1st-curtain. This happens with Servo and One Shot. AF
Area- I have tried all. I have turned off tracking and eye detection. When in Servo, I sue 2,4 or Auto.

I have read everything that I could find. Watched a milion YouTube videos, and I am unhappily stumped. I am willing to try anything, so if you have the expertise to help me troubleshoot this, I would be so grateful.


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## Kit. (Dec 12, 2022)

It is possible that your camera is defective.

Although, what wonders me is that you don't tell the ISO and shutter speed at which you take your pictures.
Also, which software do you use to convert them? Do in-camera JPEGs happen to be better?


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## koenkooi (Dec 12, 2022)

Please post an example picture, with EXIF intact, that shows the issues you are seeing.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

Hi Alan - I just went out and took some .jpgs after reading your message, and they are still blurry. I usually set my shutter to the subject, so, if still, I will set to 250. Apertures 4-7. I use Lightroom Classic which I have been using for decades, not in cc.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> Please post an example picture, with EXIF intact, that shows the issues you are seeing.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> Please post an example picture, with EXIF intact, that shows the issues you are seeing.


Thank you. I did below.


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## koenkooi (Dec 12, 2022)

If you’re using EFCS or MS and a shutter between 1/60s and 1/160s there’s a good chance you’re seeing the IS resonate from shutter shock. You can check if image quality improves if you go slower than 1/60s or when using ES.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> If you’re using EFCS or MS and a shutter between 1/60s and 1/160s there’s a good chance you’re seeing the IS resonate from shutter shock. You can check if image quality improves if you go slower than 1/60s or when using ES.


I just went out and shot two photos, one at 1/50 and one at 1/200 with ES. Same exact as picture posted.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> View attachment 206730
> View attachment 206729


Could you send an image that has some fine detail on it and sharp edges. Also, we need to see a crop at 100% (eg 2000x3000px cropped from the centre and not downscaled).


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanF said:


> Could you send an image that has some fine detail on it and sharp edges. Also, we need to see a crop at 100% (eg 2000x3000px cropped from the centre and not downscaled).


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

I hope this is what you requested, but I am not sure.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> I hope this is what you requested, but I am not sure.


They are all 500x333px. Are they downsized, crops of 500x333 at 1px = 1px of original, or what?


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanF said:


> They are all 500x333px. Are they downsized, crops of 500x333 at 1px = 1px of original, or what?


I am sorry Alan. I don't usually do crops so I am not sure how to do what you are requesting. When I export to jpg, should it be a particular size? Can I post a Raw? Excuse my lack of knowledge.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> I am sorry Alan. I don't usually do crops so I am not sure how to do what you are requesting. When I export to jpg, should it be a particular size? Can I post a Raw? Excuse my lack of knowledge.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> View attachment 206736


Export to full size, open with whatever program you use, and use that program to draw a box around what you want to crop to. The one you just posted looks pretty sharp. But, it would be better if you have a flat surface facing the camera with some small sized print on it. At the angle you have, some of the image is going to be out of focus as it is further away from the camera (or closer).


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanF said:


> Export to full size, open with whatever program you use, and use that program to draw a box around what you want to crop to. The one you just posted looks pretty sharp. But, it would be better if you have a flat surface facing the camera with some small sized print on it. At the angle you have, some of the image is going to be out of focus as it is further away from the camera (or closer).


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## Sporgon (Dec 12, 2022)

Could be going from 20mp - 32mp viewing issue.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

Sporgon said:


> Could be going from 20mp - 32mp viewing issue.


Would you please elaborate what that means? Again, sorry for my lack of knowledge.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> View attachment 206737


I can see from the EXIF data the sheet of paper is only 1.09m from the camera at f/7.1 and f = 105mm. The depth of field under these conditions is only 2cm in front and 2 cm behind. You are clearly holding the camera at an angle to it as the top is in focus and the bottom is closer to the camera.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanF said:


> I can see from the EXIF data the sheet of paper is only 1.09m from the camera at f/7.1 and f = 105mm. The depth of field under these conditions is only 2cm in front and 2 cm behind. You are clearly holding the camera at an angle to it as the top is in focus and the bottom is closer to the camera.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

Hi Alan- Are you indicating that you do not see any focus issues but perhaps faulty technique? Is there a different technique that I should be using. I always got tack sharp images with my 7dmii. I have found all my nature scenes and animals look poorly.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> Hi Alan- Are you indicating that you do not see any focus issues but perhaps faulty technique? Is there a different technique that I should be using. I always got tack sharp images with my 7dmii. I have found all my nature scenes and animals look poorly.


It's just I can't tell what is going on from the way you take images for these tests. If you use a flat image, then have a sheet of, say, newspaper flat on a wall and have your camera on a tripod exactly at right angles to the centre. If you have groups of plants wtih a mixture of distances, then show what actually you are focussing on - Canon's DPP software will show you where the camera is focussing. If you want to minimise noise use a decent RAW converter program such as DxO PL6 or do a round of Topaz Denoise - Lightroom isn't up to it with these cameras.


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## Sporgon (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> Would you please elaborate what that means? Again, sorry for my lack of knowledge.


32 mp produces a larger output size (greater enlargement ) of image than 20mp, and therefore when compared with the smaller 20mp image (from your 7DII) will appear less sharp. Also the greater the mp (for the same size format) the less sharply the pixels are defined and so again leads to an impression of softness. I read that you’re shooting in CRAW. I believe this is still the full 32 mp but compressed. 
So it’s possible that this is what you’re noticing. You can test this by taking one of your 32mp files you’re not happy with, and in lightroom reduce it to 20mp ( size at 5472 px long side like your 7DII) and then see how it compares in sharpness. You might find it looks better.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanF said:


> It's just I can't tell what is going on from the way you take images for these tests. If you use a flat image, then have a sheet of, say, newspaper flat on a wall and have your camera on a tripod exactly at right angles to the centre. If you have groups of plants wtih a mixture of distances, then show what actually you are focussing on - Canon's DPP software will show you where the camera is focussing. If you want to minimise noise use a decent RAW converter program such as DxO PL6 or do a round of Topaz Denoise - Lightroom isn't up to it with these cameras.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


>


Sorry, it is really dark outside today. In all the pictures for the test, I have focused on the center.


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


>


This is 500x448 pixels. Is this just a crop of 500x448 from the centre or have you downsized the image? I did ask for a crop of 2000x3000px.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanF said:


> This is 500x448 pixels. Is this just a crop of 500x448 from the centre or have you downsized the image? I did ask for a crop of 2000x3000px.


crop from the center


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> crop from the center


Here is another crop


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## AlanF (Dec 12, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> crop from the center


It's too pixelated - the lines on the letters are about only 1 pixel thick so it's bound to be of too low resolution and not look sharp. You still have the 7DII box so just compare some shots directly.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

AlanF said:


> It's too pixelated - the lines on the letters are about only 1 pixel thick so it's bound to be of too low resolution and not look sharp. You still have the 7DII box so just compare some shots directly.


Okay. I will take some comparative shots tomorrow as it is now raining. Alan- I sooo appreciate you for trying to help me.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 12, 2022)

I will post the shots here tomorrow.


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## koenkooi (Dec 13, 2022)

Sporgon said:


> 32 mp produces a larger output size (greater enlargement ) of image than 20mp, and therefore when compared with the smaller 20mp image (from your 7DII) will appear less sharp. Also the greater the mp (for the same size format) the less sharply the pixels are defined and so again leads to an impression of softness. I read that you’re shooting in CRAW. I believe this is still the full 32 mp but compressed.
> So it’s possible that this is what you’re noticing. You can test this by taking one of your 32mp files you’re not happy with, and in lightroom reduce it to 20mp ( size at 5472 px long side like your 7DII) and then see how it compares in sharpness. You might find it looks better.


CRAW compression shouldn’t affect sharpness, Canon implies that it works on low frequency portions, like smooth gradients.


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## Sporgon (Dec 13, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> CRAW compression shouldn’t affect sharpness, Canon implies that it works on low frequency portions, like smooth gradients.


Yes that what I was saying; CRAW is still full sized image. When FF resolutions moved from the 12 to 20 mark, and then 20 to 50 there were many people complaining of less sharp images. As 32 mp on a crop sensor is pretty dense I thought this might be something the OP is noticing compared with his 7DII. Also, technique and movement free shooting will be more noticeable on crop 32 mp when viewing at full size output (which CRAW is). 
Reading back what I wrote, saying “this is what you may be seeing” after mentioning CRAW was a bit misleading.


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## AlanF (Dec 13, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> I will post the shots here tomorrow.


Let me be clearer, I think you still have the 7DII as you had images of its box.

1. First of all check whether you can take a 2D image sharply. Set your R7, and if you still have it, your 7DII the same and take photos as I said of a sheet of paper with printing on it, flat on a wall with the camera on a tripod at right angles to the paper. Make sure the print is large enough so the image is not too pixelated. Much better still, I personally use charts that you can download. My favourite is from Bob Atkins http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/lens_sharpness.html where there is a gradation of resolution details (use version 2 of the chart - the different sized pairs of lines etc take care of the pixelation problems if the chart is about a 1000 px wide or greater). If it isn't sharp try using ES vs EFCS, different shutter speeds etc. Also, see if it makes a difference using DPP4 (free download from Canon) rather than Lightroom.
2. Then check where you are actually focussing on a scene. Download your images and open with Canon DPP4. It will show you you in the menu how to see where precisely the R7 or 7DII has focussed from little red squares it will put on the image on your screen. You will be able to see whether it is sharp or not there and you can compare with the 7DII. If it's not focussing where you want, play with your AF settings.
3. As I wrote earlier, if the problem is noise, invest in Topaz Denoise - it works wonders on your images from DPP4. Or, buy DxO PL6 - they offer a months free trial.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 13, 2022)

AlanF said:


> Let me be clearer, I think you still have the 7DII as you had images of its box.
> 
> 1. First of all check whether you can take a 2D image sharply. Set your R7, and if you still have it, your 7DII the same and take photos as I said of a sheet of paper with printing on it, flat on a wall with the camera on a tripod at right angles to the paper. Make sure the print is large enough so the image is not too pixelated. Much better still, I personally use charts that you can download. My favourite is from Bob Atkins http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/lens_sharpness.html where there is a gradation of resolution details (use version 2 of the chart - the different sized pairs of lines etc take care of the pixelation problems if the chart is about a 1000 px wide or greater). If it isn't sharp try using ES vs EFCS, different shutter speeds etc. Also, see if it makes a difference using DPP4 (free download from Canon) rather than Lightroom.
> 2. Then check where you are actually focussing on a scene. Download your images and open with Canon DPP4. It will show you you in the menu how to see where precisely the R7 or 7DII has focussed from little red squares it will put on the image on your screen. You will be able to see whether it is sharp or not there and you can compare with the 7DII. If it's not focussing where you want, play with your AF settings.
> 3. As I wrote earlier, if the problem is noise, invest in Topaz Denoise - it works wonders on your images from DPP4. Or, buy DxO PL6 - they offer a months free trial.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 13, 2022)

This is the r7. I also took a picture of where the camera focused. I will post the 7d next.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 13, 2022)

Here is the 7d


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## AlanF (Dec 13, 2022)

I am a little confused. The image from the R7 should be 26.5% wider in pixel count but it is only 3.9%. I think you must have changed the focal length of the 24-105mm on changing lens. The EXIF data do say 88mm focal length for the R7 and 82mm on the 7DII, which is the wrong direction. Anyway, for images of similar size, they are about as sharp as each other.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 13, 2022)

AlanF said:


> I am a little confused. The image from the R7 should be 26.5% wider in pixel count but it is only 3.9%. I think you must have changed the focal length of the 24-105mm on changing lens. The EXIF data do say 88mm focal length for the R7 and 82mm on the 7DII, which is the wrong direction. Anyway, for images of similar size, they are about as sharp as each other.


Thank you very much Alan for looking at these pictures. Is it then safe to assume that there isn't anything wrong with my R7, and that the operator (me  needs to learn how to take pictures with this new mirrorless?


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## AlanF (Dec 13, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> Thank you very much Alan for looking at these pictures. Is it then safe to assume that there isn't anything wrong with my R7, and that the operator (me  needs to learn how to take pictures with this new mirrorless?


I think you just have to get used to the AF. I do a lot of bird photography and use two main settings. I use eyeAF and tracking for the whole field, which works very well in most case, even for animals and humans with it being set to animals, and centre point focus when I have to locate the bird myself. I don't know the extent of your technical knowledge but I use back button focus with the AF-on button set to the eyeAF with tracking and the * button to the point focus. I also recommend for slow shutter speeds, you use electronic shutter as it eliminates any shuttershock. The EFCS setting shouldn't have it either but if you are in high speed continuous shooting, shock can be transferred from one frame to the next. Don't hesitate to ask any further questions.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 13, 2022)

AlanF said:


> I think you just have to get used to the AF. I do a lot of bird photography and use two main settings. I use eyeAF and tracking for the whole field, which works very well in most case, even for animals and humans with it being set to animals, and centre point focus when I have to locate the bird myself. I don't know the extent of your technical knowledge but I use back button focus with the AF-on button set to the eyeAF with tracking and the * button to the point focus. I also recommend for slow shutter speeds, you use electronic shutter as it eliminates any shuttershock. The EFCS setting shouldn't have it either but if you are in high speed continuous shooting, shock can be transferred from one frame to the next. Don't hesitate to ask any further questions.


Again, thank you! Yes, I also love bird photography and landscapes. We are in Houston on a mayor migratory path, so I have the opportunity of shooting birds in flight. I do it for myself, don't print pics (so I don't crop in sizes), and love to shoot birds in flight. Believe it or not, I am proficient at that, or should I say, WAS. I will adopt your settings, and I do know how to customize buttons. I thought I could just pick it up and run, but the amount of noise is throwing me for a loop. Using the EF-EOS R mount too. Anyway, I thank you profusely for spending this time with me.


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## AustinbatR7 (Dec 13, 2022)

Sporgon said:


> 32 mp produces a larger output size (greater enlargement ) of image than 20mp, and therefore when compared with the smaller 20mp image (from your 7DII) will appear less sharp. Also the greater the mp (for the same size format) the less sharply the pixels are defined and so again leads to an impression of softness. I read that you’re shooting in CRAW. I believe this is still the full 32 mp but compressed.
> So it’s possible that this is what you’re noticing. You can test this by taking one of your 32mp files you’re not happy with, and in lightroom reduce it to 20mp ( size at 5472 px long side like your 7DII) and then see how it compares in sharpness. You might find it looks better.


Thank you. Yes, there is some of that going on I believe. I just need to take some courses and learn the AF. Thanks for the insight!


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## AlanF (Dec 13, 2022)

AustinbatR7 said:


> Again, thank you! Yes, I also love bird photography and landscapes. We are in Houston on a mayor migratory path, so I have the opportunity of shooting birds in flight. I do it for myself, don't print pics (so I don't crop in sizes), and love to shoot birds in flight. Believe it or not, I am proficient at that, or should I say, WAS. I will adopt your settings, and I do know how to customize buttons. I thought I could just pick it up and run, but the amount of noise is throwing me for a loop. Using the EF-EOS R mount too. Anyway, I thank you profusely for spending this time with me.


As I said, invest in either DxO PL6 (my favourite) or Topaz Denoise as they both eat noise. Topaz Sharpen (or the AI package that does denoise, sharpen and upresolving) is very good at removing motion blur for flying birds. You are most welcome to ask me to share experience. By the way, you might want to look at the RF 100-400mm to go with the camera, it's very cheap, extremely light and very sharp.


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## JTM-77 (Wednesday at 4:26 PM)

AustinbatR7 said:


> Hello! I hope that you can help me. I just got an R7 after shooting with a 7dmii with which I took tack sharp pictures. This is my first mirrorless, and I have worked with many different settings in the AF and Camera Menus. I have also reset the camera twice. Here are my issues:
> 1. All my pictures are in poor focus.
> 2. All my pictures are very noisy.
> 
> ...


Problem is you are using EF moutn lenses even with the EF-EOS-R adaptor and 3rd party lenses like the sigma (which is a really good brand of lens) just does not want to be compatible. Best to get RF mount lenses like I have the 24-105 F4 the RF 70-200 F2.8 the RF 85mm F1.2 and the F2.0 and the RF 100-500lense for my R7


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