# Semi-Erotic Photography: Questions...



## cayenne (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi Folks,

I was about to put this in the portraits section, but that looks to be mostly for posting taken shots, rather than for questions.

I'm a noob at everything as you can tell from other posts...learning video and stills. I live in New Orleans, lots of stuff going on here as you can imagine...from new movies and other entertainment being filmed and processed here (especially due to tax breaks LA give down here)...but also, to the old 'bread and butter' industries around say, the French Quarter.

That preamble being stated...

I have friends around town...many of whom have worked as DJ's around town to bouncers at strip clubs locally. And I mean the good ones too.

One of them is a good friend and has lots of the female strippers/erotic models in town as friends and he's talked me up to them and many are enthusiastic about me taking pics of them for their portfolios. Some saw some PP I was doing experimenting with styles, etc....and wants me to take some images of her, and do the color isolation on some of them....to show off her tatoos...I'm thinking something along the lines of her laying face down on bed nude (no naughty parts showing in the image)...to get the body art in with her...etc. 

Anyway, I've not done any portrait or pro photography at all...and these models understand that. So, I'm wondering things like:

1. Any precautions to be taken when taking pics of women, potentially with nudity? I don't wanna get sued or have some whacko accuse me of something. I'm purely business here.

2. I'm starting to try to read up on regular portrait type photography...but guessing that something more erotic would be a more specialized theme...does anyone have any suggestions or links to read up on this?

3. I'm not trying to be paranoid, but with everything you hear on the news, etc...are there any pitfalls I should look out for? 

4. With regular or erotic photography...do you need to get consent/release forms signed? I'd want to have some release for me to use any images for my portfolio too for any really good shots I take, after all...I'm wanting to earn a bit of $$ off this to pay for my photog habit I'm rapidly developing.


5. What to charge? What do people normally charge for regular portrait photography? Would there be a premium on something more erotic? Again, I'm being honest about my skills...so, I'm fine with some early trade off of not charging much...in order for me to get experience with real live people as models, and try to build my own portfolio.

I've always been the type to figure that in order to learn something, you read and absorb all you can from good basic research, and then try to jump in with both feet and learn by doing....but this area gave me pause and I thought I'd ask.

I mean, let's face it, I have NO problem with hanging out with as many scantily clad women as possible....and there no shortage of potential customers here in New Orleans....if I do well, word of mouth with my friends could potentially mean some good $$ and well, lets' face it..this could be fun.

But I just wondered if anyone here could give some advice or links to more info....I can see potential both good and possibly bad.

Thanks in advance,

cayenne


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## fotoray (Oct 23, 2012)

cayenne said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I was about to put this in the portraits section, but that looks to be mostly for posting taken shots, rather than for questions.
> 
> ...


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## Drizzt321 (Oct 23, 2012)

Not having done any of this style before...

But also having a 3rd person there, maybe a friend of hers or someone she's comfortable with? At least until you develop a relationship (meaning you know each other, and trust each other with work). 

Also stay professional. Concentrate on the work, the lighting, etc. And if things 'rise' up, just ignore it as best as possible, and continue on.


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## DB (Oct 23, 2012)

If it were me there are 2 things I would do:

(1) Have another female present in addition to the model, as a stylist or makeup artist (will also make the model feel more relaxed knowing that another female is present)

(2) After each sequence of shots, do a quick review of the photos with those present - this will reinforce the notion that you're a 'Photographer' taking pics of a 'Model' rather than a male shooting pics of a female (just keeps it very professional looking).

Other than that it sounds both interesting and challenging. Good luck with it.

edit: while I was typing someone else suggested more or less the same (see above)


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## DB (Oct 23, 2012)

also use a very simple standard release form like this:

MODEL RELEASE
1. I irrevocably and absolutely consent to the unrestricted use by __________________
(“Photographer”) and his/her/its successors, assigns, and designees, and those acting with
his/her/its permission and authority of any and all photographic or other images
(“Images”) of me that Photographer creates/created or makes/made on_____________
for all purposes, in any form, and in any and all media, including, without limitation,
advertising, solicitation, stock photography, or trade, to copyright same in Photographer’s
own name or any other name that he/she/it may choose, and the right to use my name in
connection therewith if Photographer so chooses.
2. I waive any right to inspect or approve the finished Images, advertising copy,
accompanying text, or any other printed or visual matter that may be used in conjunction
therewith, or to inspect or approve any version of any use(s) to which the Images may be
employed or used in conjunction therewith.
3. I release and discharge Photographer and those acting under his/her/its authority from
any and all liabilities, claims and demands arising out of or relating to any blurring,
distortion, or alteration, whether intentional or otherwise, that may occur or be produced
in connection with the Images, or in connection with any processing, alteration,
transmission, display, or publication of the Images.
4. Model represents that he/she is not affiliated with any model agent or agency and has
made no other agreement, whether written or oral, pertaining to the creation, use or
publication of any of the Images.
5. Model acknowledges that he/she has read this release, understands the terms and
conditions contained in it, and has been given a copy of it. Model further acknowledges
that Photographer, as defined herein, relies on the accuracy of Model’s representations.

Model’s Name ______________________ Date _________________
Model’s Signature __________________________
Model’s Address __________________________
Model’s Telephone Number ____________ Secondary Phone Number _____________
Social Security Number or State Driver’s License Number _______________________
Witness’ Signature ________________________
Witness Address________________________


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## Menace (Oct 23, 2012)

I tend to have either my make up artist(female) or a female assistant with me during shoots. 

I'm not a big fan of models bringing boy friends / husbands etc to the shoot as they are usually a distraction to the model especially if they start directing the model!

Good luck and hope it works out for you - just remember to be respectful and professional at all times.


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## cayenne (Oct 24, 2012)

fotoray said:


> cayenne said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Folks,
> ...



Thank you and others for the replies....VERY good info I was looking for.
With respect to your input "Be very sure to get a signed model release that clearly states all your agreements with the model!!!!!!!"

Can you list out some specific things I might want to have written in that release?

I see someone else has listed a basic release form...I can definitely start with that.

Also, would I need some sort of contract....for the job, or would that also be rolled into said release....or are these two separate documents.

I do have my own incorporated company which I can do this through and intend to do so, so that should give me some protections in all dealings....

But again, do you have any specifics I'd want to do?

One thing that does concern me...is the potential to get someone that is under 18yrs. I'm guessing I should ask for and get copies of their drivers licenses, etc...especially if there is to be nudity? In today's atmosphere....well, I want to do whatever I can to protect myself there!!

Thank you so far for all the suggestions, the extra girl there and showing the shots as I go, are invaluable suggestions I think!!

Any other thoughts, please, keep them coming.

Thank you for all the help!!

cayenne


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## verysimplejason (Oct 25, 2012)

Another thing, please feel free to invite us during one of your photoshoots.  Kidding aside, good luck to your new found career. I can only hope to have something to also fund my expensive hobby. ;D


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## Menace (Oct 25, 2012)

Re age, always take a photo of a drivers license or a passport  

Also, I'd never ever shoot any models under 18 for a nude / implied nude even with a written parental consent - its just not worth the risk.

Apart from that, enjoy.


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## verysimplejason (Oct 25, 2012)

Oh and post some pictures? ;D


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## Rat (Oct 25, 2012)

Menace said:


> Re age, always take a photo of a drivers license or a passport
> 
> Also, I'd never ever shoot any models under 18 for a nude / implied nude even with a written parental consent - its just not worth the risk.


This. You're legally obliged (IANAL but I'm pretty sure) to be able to prove that your models are over 18 at the time of shooting. Also, this seems a little paranoid but it sounded like good advice to me: make sure you never physically touch your models. Many photographers will prop up arms and legs and the head in order to get the right shot ("hold it here, like so"). With erotic shoots, this might be construed to be harassment of some sort. Most models will probably want all the direction you can give 'em, but you only need one 'misunderstanding' for the lawsuit you really do not want.


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## cayenne (Oct 25, 2012)

Menace said:


> Re age, always take a photo of a drivers license or a passport
> 
> Also, I'd never ever shoot any models under 18 for a nude / implied nude even with a written parental consent - its just not worth the risk.
> 
> Apart from that, enjoy.



Thank you!!

Good advice all!

I like the suggestion of photographing the DL/Passport. I was sitting there wondering how to get a Xerox copy of it on the site....and what a D'oh moment....just take a freaking picture !!


Yeah, and the comments about touching...I'd had some concern about that too posing...
I figured as I mentioned, most of these girls are strippers...I was thinking that I'd make sure, of course, to ask "Is it ok if I touch your (arm or whatever body part), I want to help pose you.."...etc.
Figuring they likely are already comfortable with being nude in front of strangers...but again, I would be VERY congnizant of asking before any type of touching.


One thought that did occur to me...likely some shots would be taken on a *BED*.

Now...what would be the best thing for that? I mean, if they came to my place, I have beds I could have made and prepared ahead, but not sure I want a ton of strippers knowing where I live...

I thought Hotel room...but not the best set....I supposed I could ask to come to their place, but guessing they might not have the best surroundings....so, where to go and what to do for bedroom shots?

Thanks again for all the input!

c


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## Drizzt321 (Oct 25, 2012)

Is there room in the studio for a bed setup? What about just a couch? One of those vintage lounger style ones that only has an arm on one side, whatever they are called. 

Ah, fainting couches, that's the style I mean. Not necessarily the one pictured of course, but that sort of style. Just go use Flikr or Google Images to see what some others have done with poses on them. I can be quite classily sensual


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## Studio1930 (Oct 25, 2012)

You might want to Google 2257 compliance.


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## wickidwombat (Oct 26, 2012)

Menace said:


> I tend to have either my make up artist(female) or a female assistant with me during shoots.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of models bringing boy friends / husbands etc to the shoot as they are usually a distraction to the model especially if they start directing the model!
> 
> Good luck and hope it works out for you - just remember to be respectful and professional at all times.



^^^ THIS - Female Assistant = Essential


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## cayenne (Oct 26, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Menace said:
> 
> 
> > I tend to have either my make up artist(female) or a female assistant with me during shoots.
> ...



Hmm....I'm currently in between girlfriends....don't know anyone where I live that is makeup artist...etc.

Again, just me...no studio...just starting....girls are friends of mine who has worked with them as DJ, security, etc....

C


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## drmikeinpdx (Oct 26, 2012)

I've had some experience in this genre. It's been surprisingly drama-free for me. None of my clients who are in what you might loosely call the sex industry has asked to bring an escort. They are used to working alone and/or dealing with men who are not respectful. They can tell if you are focused on getting good photos or just enjoying the view. 

If you do your job and respect the girls, you will develop a reputation as someone who can be trusted and that is very helpful. It is also helpful to have a website showing your work. 

These women tend to have money, but not large amounts. If you can do a nice shoot for $100 or less you will probably have plenty of clients. As time goes by you will get a better idea of what you can charge. I'd say start low and work your way up if the demand is there. You might also offer multiple options for different budgets.

In my opinion, you only need a release form if you wish to post the photos in your portfolio or sell them. If you plan to do that, you also should take a photo of their ID while they are holding it in front of their face. And you might also have them hold the release form in the picture too.

Never work with anyone under 18. If you have any doubt at all, get a photo of their ID and you can even ask for a second form of ID.


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## wickidwombat (Oct 26, 2012)

cayenne said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > Menace said:
> ...


Might not be an issue if you know them well...

practice directing people to adjust their pose without touching by using hand gestures to turn or by mirroring you so you can strike the pose you want and have them mirror that (infact this can cause them to laugh alot and losen up too causing the envirnment to be more relaxed.

as for model release i got the vmrelease iphone ap where you can attach a photo of id and the client with it and get signatures on the phone, works pretty well


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## Halfrack (Oct 26, 2012)

Also check out the forums at http://www.modelmayhem.com lots of learning, and general best practices to be had...


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## Menace (Oct 27, 2012)

Halfrack said:


> Also check out the forums at http://www.modelmayhem.com lots of learning, and general best practices to be had...



+1

Model mayhem is really good for finding models with various amounts of experience as well as make up artists - both of whom will collaborate with you for prints for their portfolios where as some will ask for a payment.

Basic membership is free and allows you to display your pics and have a bio so others know what kind of photography you do.

Cheers


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## Stickman (Oct 27, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> Not having done any of this style before...
> 
> But also having a 3rd person there, maybe a friend of hers or someone she's comfortable with? At least until you develop a relationship (meaning you know each other, and trust each other with work).
> 
> Also stay professional. Concentrate on the work, the lighting, etc. And if things 'rise' up, just ignore it as best as possible, and continue on.



A large portion of "dancers" are going to be involved in narcotics (using and selling), with a good chunk selling themselves on the side. The concern isn't about them being uncomfortable around him...

Before anyone gets on a high horse about girls working themselves through college, sorry, I've arrested way too many to buy into the fairy tales. Coke, meth, and prostitution combined with stealing are reoccurring themes. 

That doesn't mean you can't find attractive girls or take decent pictures though, just don't go into it wide eyed like a chump.


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## bycostello (Nov 10, 2012)

always awlays have someone else that you trust in the room.... just to chaperone, you don't want any false accusations...


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 12, 2012)

OK, I read though this. All good suggestions. I don't have experience with erotic photography per se but I would offer this common sense advice about location...

Strip clubs are a different world. You live in New Orleans, you should already understand that better than most. Whenever you bring strangers to your home, they know where you live. They also know what you own. You become a target for theft, or worse. What if a shoot goes poorly or a perfectly good shoot pisses off a boyfriend or husband. You're screwed. Re-read the law enforcement inspired post above about what habits these people may (or may not) have. These girls live a rough lifestyle. Even if they are trustworthy, someone they know may not be and after hearing about your place, may decide it's a payday.

If you drive a car with a fancy stereo and people know it, it will eventually be broken into. Same goes for your house/apt with a bunch of photo equipment.

I don't care who you know or how nice they are. Other people they know have the potential to cause you grief, loss or harm. If it were me, I would always work on location with a partner (for your safety and theirs). No one on one, always have another person there with you. Meet at another home or hotel room with background equipment and lights. Don't bring a bunch of strangers parading through your home where you live and keep everything you own. It's just a bad idea. You will either arrive back to a trashed home or worse, have someone visit you with bad intentions. (Are you the A$$Hole Pervert that took pictures of my wife _naked_!!??)

Sorry, some things aren't worth the risk and you don't owe these people any favors. Don't shortcut this, do it right. There's a reason the pro studios actually have studios. With locks and alarms. It sounds like to me you are moving into the business too fast. Figure out how to go to them and then work your way up to a studio as the business grows.


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## LightCrafterPhotography (Nov 12, 2012)

bycostello said:


> always awlays have someone else that you trust in the room.... just to chaperone, you don't want any false accusations...


 
This is very important, and should not be overlooked.


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## cayenne (Nov 12, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> OK, I read though this. All good suggestions. I don't have experience with erotic photography per se but I would offer this common sense advice about location...
> 
> Strip clubs are a different world. You live in New Orleans, you should already understand that better than most. Whenever you bring strangers to your home, they know where you live. They also know what you own. You become a target for theft, or worse. What if a shoot goes poorly or a perfectly good shoot pisses off a boyfriend or husband. You're screwed. Re-read the law enforcement inspired post above about what habits these people may (or may not) have. These girls live a rough lifestyle. Even if they are trustworthy, someone they know may not be and after hearing about your place, may decide it's a payday.
> 
> ...



Yep....I've been quite hesitant to bring anyone to MY house...I was thinking to rent a hotel room or something....maybe something down IN the Quarter....nice rooms, and the girls would be near work..etc?

I dunno.....it is likely going to be after the first of the year before I have time for this...so, will pondering the parameters and logistics...

Thank you to all for the great advice....keep it coming as you think of things...

C


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 12, 2012)

If you visit The Strobist (http://strobist.blogspot.com/) and read, learn, study, etc you will discover that you can make a lot of venues work. You can make the background disappear or make it work for you based on how you manipulate the light, shutter speed, etc. This might help you adapt to more locations and still impress by keeping the model as the main point of interest in the images. I also really like some of Stephen Eastwood's work, check it out! I bet some of your models would love the look of some of these edgy styles but they are pretty advanced. Definitely something to strive for. http://stepheneastwood.com/


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 12, 2012)

cayenne said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > OK, I read though this. All good suggestions. I don't have experience with erotic photography per se but I would offer this common sense advice about location...
> ...


I'm sure that there are photo studios for rent, and they might even include some proper lighting.


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## verysimplejason (Nov 22, 2012)

If you're on budget and you think you have already some of the lightings that you need, you can also rent some small vacant warehouse or unoccupied small old building. And they're right. Always bring someone with you, preferably, someone whom both of you can trust.


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