# The 7d with an aps-h sensor!!!!!!!!



## benuriyahmay (Mar 1, 2011)

I put two features I want. We could have upped the mp's to 24 if you want, but you can just say that or what you want more than what I put in your comment. I know you all want 45-point AF but I shoot manual primes. 

Thanks for taking this survey, if it get's lot's of Aps-H votes we'll send it to Canon. No reason the new prosumer shouldn't be a larger sensor..

Maybe they could even release two versions of the next 7d like the 7dc or the 7dh just like the x's and the s's of Canon and Nikon.


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## match14 (Mar 1, 2011)

Where is the option to stay with APS-C 18MP?


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## WarStreet (Mar 1, 2011)

Everyone would like to get the good stuff, then it all depends on price. 

This sensor is problematic for users which use wide angle lenses. Users will more likely use APS-C being able to use EF-S lenses, while others would like to use an FF to use all the glass of their FF lenses. APS-H is more adequate for a small group of users, and these users won't compromise on using a 7D specs with APS-H which would cost around (or even more) the price of the 5DII. I strongly believe that APS-H won't be used anymore.


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## EYEONE (Mar 1, 2011)

I agree that a 7D with an APS-H would be great. But it doesn't make much sense for Canon to do so. The 5D Mark II stole enough sales from the 1Ds line because it had the exact same sensor. I don't think Canon would release a new camera that compete directly with their other 1-Series camera. Leaving Canon with two flagship series cameras that both have cheaper, equally sensored pro-bodied competition below them.

And you also loose the EF-S lenses as well.


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## Bob Howland (Mar 1, 2011)

If the next generation 1D is FF, then moving the 7DMk2 to APS-H almost makes sense. It would make a lot more sense if Canon had a 12-24 f/2.8 or f/4 lens optimized for APS-H in its lineup. Regardless of its sensor size and given a FF 1DMk5, I expect the 7DMk2 to move way up market and become the crop-sensor, sports-oriented, speed-demon pro camera in the Canon lineup.

Then again, maybe Canon will dispense with the mirror and optical viewfinder altogether and ramp the still image frame rate to 24 or 30FPS. If that happens, I expect the number of pixels/frame to drop, both because video doesn't require a lot of pixels and because too many pixels necessitates workarounds like row-skipping in video.


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## Admin US West (Mar 1, 2011)

You can buy a good USED 1D MK III for a little more than a 7D. I did that after deciding the 7D was not for me.

A new 7D with larger sensor, larger mirroe, redesigned prism / eyepiece would be a whole different camera. The sensor will also cost quite a bit more due to lower yield. You get 200 APS-C wafers from a 8 inch wafer, there are about 20 defects on a average wafer so you net 180. You can fit 20 full sized sensors on the same wafer, and 20 random defects could wipe them all out, in any case, the yield is low.

A APS-H sensor will fall in between, you might get 28 or 30 sensors minus 10-20 defects will be a low yield as well, probably half the cost of a FF sensor.

This is why large sensors increase the cost by a large amount. So, expect a more expensive camera if a larger sensor is used. I doubt we would see one, since a used 1D MKIII would cost less and be better.


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## bvukich (Mar 1, 2011)

Bob Howland said:


> If the next generation 1D is FF, then moving the 7DMk2 to APS-H almost makes sense.



If the next 1D isn't APS-H, then it makes even less sense. A one off sensor is an expensive luxury on a $5k camera, and a non-starter on a $1300 camera.


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## Bob Howland (Mar 1, 2011)

bvukich said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > If the next generation 1D is FF, then moving the 7DMk2 to APS-H almost makes sense.
> ...



I wouldn't expect an upmarket APS-H 7DMk2 to cost $1300. $3000+ seems more realistic. Also, why is a "one off sensor" untenable? If the non-recurring design costs for the unique APS-H sensor are $1 million and the production run is 10,000 units, the cost per unit is only $100. I would expect that to be swamped by the additional recurring cost due to an APS-H sensor being larger than an APS-C sensor.


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## studio1972 (Mar 1, 2011)

Bob Howland said:


> bvukich said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Howland said:
> ...



With the xxD series becoming consumer cameras now, the 7D is the cheapest semi-pro body available. I think the next one will have better high ISO, and not much else new (maybe an articulated screen). The price will not change much as they need to have an affordable semi pro 1.6 crop body.


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## Kuscali (Mar 2, 2011)

Would be a better way to differentiate the XXD vs the 7D. When the 7D mark II rolls out it is probably going to pick up all that was missing from the original 7D that is on the 60D now (articulating screen + other video features), then the differences between the 7D and the XXD will become even more minimal. There is also heavy competition, from Sony and Nikon coming up (I also have a feeling the current 7D is going to hold up well against those). But I think current 7D owners with EF-S lenses would not like this idea, unless the XXD, picks up from were the 50D left off from. 

It makes perfect sense to me.
Expensive Cheaper
1Ds ----> 5D
1D ------> ??
7D -------> 60D (but only $400 difference) 

A 7D with a APS-H sensor would sweep a lot of sales from Sony, and Nikon, if it is priced at the same cost of their pro-body APS-C cameras. The current 7D can get a revised version of the current Sensor, and a articulating screen and it can become the 70D.


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## gmrza (Mar 2, 2011)

Kuscali said:


> Would be a better way to differentiate the XXD vs the 7D. When the 7D mark II rolls out it is probably going to pick up all that was missing from the original 7D that is on the 60D now (articulating screen + other video features), then the differences between the 7D and the XXD will become even more minimal. There is also heavy competition, from Sony and Nikon coming up (I also have a feeling the current 7D is going to hold up well against those). But I think current 7D owners with EF-S lenses would not like this idea, unless the XXD, picks up from were the 50D left off from.



What I am wondering is how feasible it is to build a weather-sealed articulating LCD. It could potentially be expensive to build such a thing. If the 7D is the only camera with an articulating weather-sealed LCD, I wonder if Canon could build such a component in sufficient volume to make it cost effective.

The reasons for buying a 7D over a 60D are now coming down to points like:
- Weather sealing
- autofocus microjustment
- autofocus system
- frame rate
- build quality
- shutter lifespan
- viewfinder
- PC sync connector
etc.


If you remove weather sealing, you start to diminish the value proposition of the 7D.


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## unruled (Mar 2, 2011)

i wonder what pros think of the swivel screen. it seems like no matter how tough you make it, if you drop it with screen folded out, its just gonnna dismember it.


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## Lawliet (Mar 2, 2011)

Olympus has an acceptable swivel screen, something akin would work for a7DII/5DIII.

Ad APS-H, mirrors and LV: how about dropping the rigid EF/EF-s seperation? Give the mirror also a powerless resting MLU-mode that retracts a locking pin that would prevent bad matching between modes and lenses. For the viewfinder a beam splitter that merges/switches between the images from the mirror and a display would be an option that also opens a door for lots of other uses. Or simply use just the rear display as a screen for EF-s lenses. With the 10-22 it wouldn't hurt and with the standard zooms we're at least close.
Bonus points for merging the AF sensors into the imaging sensor, thus allowing PDAF in LV and movie modes.


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## EYEONE (Mar 2, 2011)

I don't see a pro body getting the swivel screen. I'm not sure why people assume that Canon will begin putting swivels in every camera from now on. It's a great feature, but I think it should stick to a certain class of camera.

I think it's important for Canon to offer that option in a camera. But they dont' need to put it on ever camera they make.


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## Kuscali (Mar 2, 2011)

gmrza said:


> Kuscali said:
> 
> 
> > Would be a better way to differentiate the XXD vs the 7D. When the 7D mark II rolls out it is probably going to pick up all that was missing from the original 7D that is on the 60D now (articulating screen + other video features), then the differences between the 7D and the XXD will become even more minimal. There is also heavy competition, from Sony and Nikon coming up (I also have a feeling the current 7D is going to hold up well against those). But I think current 7D owners with EF-S lenses would not like this idea, unless the XXD, picks up from were the 50D left off from.
> ...



And those are the same reasons why I picked up one over a 60D. I can see the difference between the two, but many others cannot. I thought I remember reading somewhere that eventually Canon was going to implement an articulating screen on all of their models sometime in the future.

For me it would be more to differentiate between the other crop body competition, if priced at roughly the same price range as the others, and it has a bigger sensor it would really sweep that market segment. Some consumers who already have say a 450D/500D with a 18-55 & 55-250mm, or a Nikon D3100/D5000 with the nikon equivalents, sometimes upgrade to another company, they see that they should/would upgrade to new lenses with a new pro-body anyways (often times misguided).


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## Kuscali (Mar 2, 2011)

Lawliet said:


> Olympus has an acceptable swivel screen, something akin would work for a7DII/5DIII.
> 
> Ad APS-H, mirrors and LV: how about dropping the rigid EF/EF-s seperation? Give the mirror also a powerless resting MLU-mode that retracts a locking pin that would prevent bad matching between modes and lenses. For the viewfinder a beam splitter that merges/switches between the images from the mirror and a display would be an option that also opens a door for lots of other uses. Or simply use just the rear display as a screen for EF-s lenses. With the 10-22 it wouldn't hurt and with the standard zooms we're at least close.
> Bonus points for merging the AF sensors into the imaging sensor, thus allowing PDAF in LV and movie modes.



Can you explain what you mean by dropping the rigid EF/EF-S separation? If a 7D mark II comes out with a APS-H sensor there would be two major problems with Ef-S lenses on it.

1). The mirror is too big, the EF-S lenses have parts that go to far back in the body.
2). Some Ef-S lenses already vignette on APS-C sensors let alone anything bigger.


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## Lawliet (Mar 2, 2011)

Yes, the mirror is to big, thats why an EF-s lens could only be attached while the mirror is locked in the "up"-position. The camera would work like an EVIL.
Vignetting wouldn't be that much of a issue as the camera knows the true image circle at a given focal length. You read only the part of the sensor thats actually illuminated. You don't get the full resolution of the APS-H sensor if your at the wide end of lens, but an indicator in the viewfinder could tell you to zoom in a bit for best results.
Similar to the masking the FF Nikons do, but in a more sophisticated way.


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## paulc (Mar 2, 2011)

Interesting about mirror having to stay up. Canon did submit those patents for overlaying an LCD image right into the viewfinder.

http://www.photographybay.com/2010/01/25/canon-dslr-dual-image-viewfinder/


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## Rocky (Mar 7, 2011)

Lawliet said:


> Olympus has an acceptable swivel screen, something akin would work for a7DII/5DIII.
> 
> Ad APS-H, mirrors and LV: how about dropping the rigid EF/EF-s seperation? Give the mirror also a powerless resting MLU-mode that retracts a locking pin that would prevent bad matching between modes and lenses. For the viewfinder a beam splitter that merges/switches between the images from the mirror and a display would be an option that also opens a door for lots of other uses. Or simply use just the rear display as a screen for EF-s lenses. With the 10-22 it wouldn't hurt and with the standard zooms we're at least close.
> Bonus points for merging the AF sensors into the imaging sensor, thus allowing PDAF in LV and movie modes.


EF-S lens will not work right with APS-H sensor due the the image circle of the EF-S lens is not large enough for the APS-H sensor.


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## Lawliet (Mar 7, 2011)

As mentioned above: you don't need to read the whole sensor, just the parts illuminated.


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