# 4K Products Coming From Canon [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 23, 2014)

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<p>We’re told to expect “a bunch” of 4K products from Canon, starting in early 2015. There will be products in the EOS line, Cinema EOS line and possibly the VIXIA line.</p>
<p>Both the EOS C300 and EOS C500 will see updates in 2015, with the EOS C300 replacement gaining at least 4K. We have no idea if Canon will follow ARRI into 6K territory or not, but judging by Canon’s strategy thus far, I don’t see that happening. Though a good source keeps telling us Canon has its sight set on being the “A camera”, and that there could be a different form factor Cinema EOS product shown at NAB.</p>
<p>As for 4K DSLR’s, we weren’t told which camera(s) would get the capability. I asked if the 7D Mark II could possibly get 4K via firmware, to which there was no clear answer.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## jebrady03 (Oct 23, 2014)

This is SO exciting!! Not because I give a s*** about 4k but because I hate listening to people whine about features they want not being included. Also... I hate the word "crippling" when it comes to camera features. So whatever achieves less of both of those scenarios... I'm all for!


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## jrista (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, the frequency with which Canon customers or potential customers complain about Canon "crippling" or otherwise shortchanging their products is a clear indication that they want more for every dollar. Canon hasn't thus far been willing to respond to all those demands for more/dollar...until they do, your going to keep hearing people complain.


It's become a simple fact that you can often get a LOT more value with other brands than with Canon. That's not to say that Canon doesn't make a good product...but their products are increasingly not providing what their customers demand. Some simply jump to another brand or add another brand to their kit. Others complain. Hopefully Canon will change in 2015 and actually start delivering.


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## jebrady03 (Oct 23, 2014)

jrista said:


> Well, the frequency with which Canon customers or potential customers complain about Canon "crippling" or otherwise shortchanging their products is a clear indication that they want more for every dollar. Canon hasn't thus far been willing to respond to all those demands for more/dollar...until they do, your going to keep hearing people complain.
> 
> 
> It's become a simple fact that you can often get a LOT more value with other brands than with Canon. That's not to say that Canon doesn't make a good product...but their products are increasingly not providing what their customers demand. *Some simply jump to another brand or add another brand to their kit.* Others complain. Hopefully Canon will change in 2015 and actually start delivering.



Those are the ones Canon will actually listen to. Canon listens to dollars, no vents


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## PureClassA (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm hoping this 4k business is a good sign that's not all we will be treated to. Canon, big or small, does have a historical penchant for surprises. With 4k may come a high res sensor (be it theirs or Sony's, I don't care) that will produce said 4k a la Sony A series.

Maybe we will indeed get some sort of gotcha moment at PhotoPlus next week as some blog prophet on Fred Miranda claimed last month. I hope he turns out right.


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## jrista (Oct 23, 2014)

jebrady03 said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Well, the frequency with which Canon customers or potential customers complain about Canon "crippling" or otherwise shortchanging their products is a clear indication that they want more for every dollar. Canon hasn't thus far been willing to respond to all those demands for more/dollar...until they do, your going to keep hearing people complain.
> ...




Sure. It's not going to stop people from complaining, though. That's my point. People complain when they don't get what they want. Just a fact of life. People complain all the time on Nikon forms, and Sony forums. It isn't a Canon-only thing...it just may be a bit more prevalent on Canon forums because Canon has seemingly ignored a good number of big customer demands for a few years at a minimum now.


All I'm saying is, people won't stop complaining. Once Canon finally gets 4k capability into all their gear, 6k and 8k will probably already be the hot new thing, and people will complain about that.


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## Perio (Oct 23, 2014)

Why early 2015? I definitely have very limited knowledge in finance/business, but to me it makes more sense to release something before Christmas.


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## PureClassA (Oct 23, 2014)

Perio said:


> Why early 2015? I definitely have very limited knowledge in finance/business, but to me it makes more sense to release something before Christmas.



One theory would be that IF the rumors of Canon perhaps using Sony sensors are correct (IF) then probably wouldn't be allowed to release that product prior to Sony's launch of their own new line in January (at CES I assume) which will reportedly have even higher res sensors than the 36MP they now have.

Also, the release date of what will assuredly be mostly found in only their uppermost echelon of products is rather irrelevant. Professional shooters don't give a bah humbug when products get released. They will buy whenever. A $5000 pro body isn't exactly a Tickle-Me-Elmo doll at Christmas. Since a lot of the current pro body line up is from 2012 and 2013, 2015 makes sense with the 2-3 year product life cycle


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## PureClassA (Oct 23, 2014)

dilbert said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



Well if you're already waiting for next year anyway, why not afford Canon the chance to show their cards if this CR2 pans out? Ya never know. They won't stay behind forever. I'm not saying it will deliver everything per se, but if you're already heavily invested in Canon glass, why not sit tight on making a decision for something you don't plan to do til next year anyway?


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## Marauder (Oct 23, 2014)

jebrady03 said:


> This is SO exciting!! Not because I give a s*** about 4k but because I hate listening to people whine about features they want not being included. Also... I hate the word "crippling" when it comes to camera features. So whatever achieves less of both of those scenarios... I'm all for!



+1!!!!! Don't give a rat's furry hind quarters about 4k (or much about video for that matter) and I face palm with each new thread that is infected with DRivel. Would be nice if Canon finally shuts them up--as long as they don't compromise the things that really matter. 

Not that it will actually help much--I'm sure the complainers will find new things about which to whine!!!!!!!


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## mdsilverman22 (Oct 24, 2014)

I was surprised at out how much backlash there was after the C100 Mk II announcement because for years people have been complaining about the C100 having no 60p, a poor viewfinder, no internal mic on the body, etc. and they gave us all those things. I think it's true that people will continue to want more than what is currently offered partly because that's how we've been conditioned. If we got 4K 10 bit output there would be people demanding internal 4K. If we got internal 4K then people would demand 120fps. If the C100 had all those things then what could Canon add to the C300 to get people to buy it instead of the C100? 

Like jrista said, people complain on all the forums. A friend of mine rarely complains about anything, but when he found out the Sony FS7 didn't have the same sensor as the A7S he said he wasn't interested in it. I would guess that Canon is doing the best that they can while looking out for themselves as well as consumers. 

Of course, if the new C300 doesn't have 4K then forget everything I just said  lol


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## Lee Jay (Oct 24, 2014)

Who would be okay with Canon implementing 4k on the lower end products (7D2, 5D4, C100, high end compacts, etc.) through a 1:1 pixel implementation? That would give the 7D2 an additional 1.425x crop on top of the 1.6, for example. It would require a lot less processing power and software.

Personally, I'd be okay with that.


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## Tugela (Oct 24, 2014)

mdsilverman22 said:


> I was surprised at out how much backlash there was after the C100 Mk II announcement because for years people have been complaining about the C100 having no 60p, a poor viewfinder, no internal mic on the body, etc. and they gave us all those things. I think it's true that people will continue to want more than what is currently offered partly because that's how we've been conditioned. If we got 4K 10 bit output there would be people demanding internal 4K. If we got internal 4K then people would demand 120fps. If the C100 had all those things then what could Canon add to the C300 to get people to buy it instead of the C100?
> 
> Like jrista said, people complain on all the forums. A friend of mine rarely complains about anything, but when he found out the Sony FS7 didn't have the same sensor as the A7S he said he wasn't interested in it. I would guess that Canon is doing the best that they can while looking out for themselves as well as consumers.
> 
> Of course, if the new C300 doesn't have 4K then forget everything I just said  lol



It depends on WHEN they implement new functions. Obviously if they only move to 4K when everyone else is moving to something better, then it is still a dollar short a day late.

We want them to implement these features when they are current technology, not when they are old technology.


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## jrista (Oct 24, 2014)

Tugela said:


> mdsilverman22 said:
> 
> 
> > I was surprised at out how much backlash there was after the C100 Mk II announcement because for years people have been complaining about the C100 having no 60p, a poor viewfinder, no internal mic on the body, etc. and they gave us all those things. I think it's true that people will continue to want more than what is currently offered partly because that's how we've been conditioned. If we got 4K 10 bit output there would be people demanding internal 4K. If we got internal 4K then people would demand 120fps. If the C100 had all those things then what could Canon add to the C300 to get people to buy it instead of the C100?
> ...




+1 This exactly. Canon used to be ahead of the curve, and was driving market change. Now they seem to be behind the curve on a lot of things, and are following market change. 


People don't want critical features like 4k after they had to move to another brand because they needed it, and Canon didn't have it. I see 6k video on both Red and Arri cameras now. Another one, KineMAX from a Chinese manufacturer, is offering 6k for less than ten grand. And Canon is just now finally getting to 4k.


It's this whole "behind the curve" think that I think keeps Canon customers frustrated. They aren't innovating market leadership anymore, they are following the crowd. I get how that's frustrating for some people, given how deep brand loyalties can go.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 24, 2014)

Well at least that sounds a touch more hopeful.
We'll see.
Hold off on the A7S just a bit more.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 24, 2014)

Perio said:


> Why early 2015? I definitely have very limited knowledge in finance/business, but to me it makes more sense to release something before Christmas.



???

I don't know that big ticket stuff like this is Christmas sales dependent all that much. 

Plus many areas with large population where they do a ton of sales are in the deep freeze then.

It makes way more sense to me to release in the early spring so you get the stuff available for spring and summer sports, wedding season spring through fall, fall sports, fall foliage season, summer trips where people often go to amazing places where the fancy stuff is made best use of, etc.

I never understood the whole release it when November hits.... right after the fall foliage is done, fall sports are wrapping up, wedding season is mostly wrapped up, mega-vacations become somewhat less common (although some do use Christmas/New Years period for trips).

I bet many figure why jump at full list in Nov when you might not shoot half so much again until April. OTOH if they release in the early spring they might entice more people to jump at stuff at full initial list price so they can get the whole spring, summer, fall shooting seasons out of the new gear.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 24, 2014)

Marauder said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > This is SO exciting!! Not because I give a s*** about 4k but because I hate listening to people whine about features they want not being included. Also... I hate the word "crippling" when it comes to camera features. So whatever achieves less of both of those scenarios... I'm all for!
> ...



Yup, the stuff that matters to you MATTERS but the stuff that doesn't is nonsense drivel....


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## InterMurph (Oct 24, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Hold off on the A7S just a bit more.


I gave up and bought an A7s ($2,500) and a GH4 ($1,700). They are both ridiculously fantastic. 

Canon might eventually add 4K to the 5D Mark IV, but I can't shoot with that now.


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## jrista (Oct 24, 2014)

InterMurph said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Hold off on the A7S just a bit more.
> ...




I see no reason to wait on Canon anymore. They may eventually get there, and eventually may be second quarter 2015. But when they do, is it once again going to be technology that competes with last years competitors products? Or the ones from a couple years ago? Especially with camera bodies...they come and go so fast now, and the prices are getting lower and lower thanks to the competition. It's easier to buy a product like the GH4 for a specific purpose, instead of always having to find a high end expensive product that does everything.


I'd just get the A7s now, if you want it, LTRLI. There is no evidence as of yet that the 5D IV is going to have 4k. It may have it, and if it does, is it going to be as good as what the A7s already does? (Doubtful, IMO...I don't see Canon sensors getting that kind of Q.E. for a while yet.) You can pick an A7r up for as little as $1700 used, A7s' used for as little as $2000. By the time Canon's new cameras released next year are tested and proven, you'll probably be ready to move on from the A7s anyway, and Sony should have the successor ready as well (assuming they don't release it well before Canon releases anything). That just mans you have more options and the ability to better gauge which camera will best suit your needs for 4k.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 24, 2014)

jrista said:


> InterMurph said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



At this point I will just let money build up a bit and spend in the spring. If Canon is ready then and delivers then Canon and that would be awesome, if not, that would be a shame, but SOny/Nikon it is.
Fall foliage is almost over and I tend to shoot a bit less in the winter, so I will wait until Spring and I'll have better money ready then too.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Oct 24, 2014)

Just like this was the year of the lens? I'm no conspiracy theorist, but maybe spreading rumors is official Canon policy right now for trying to stop video guys from jumping ship.


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## zenja27 (Oct 24, 2014)

finally


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## coldsweat (Oct 24, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Perio said:
> 
> 
> > Why early 2015? I definitely have very limited knowledge in finance/business, but to me it makes more sense to release something before Christmas.
> ...



The main issue with 'early spring' for me (in my situation - I know everybody's circumstances are different) is that our main wedding videography season starts mid April. We're now ready to purchase our next round of cameras which will need to last for at least 3 years so they must be 4k capable. Our camera people need to be trained and comfortable with the cameras by the start of our wedding season so we need the cameras (6 of them) to be in our sweaty palms by mid March at the latest - so with an 'early 2015' announcement that's cutting it really fine!

I get a feeling our money will be going to Sony this time around!


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## Diko (Oct 24, 2014)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> Just like this was the year of the lens? I'm no conspiracy theorist, but maybe spreading rumors is official Canon policy right now for trying to stop video guys from jumping ship.


yes of course it was: CZ and Sigma got great lenses for Canon out )))


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## mustafa (Oct 24, 2014)

"You can pick an A7r up for as little as $1700 used, A7s' used for as little as $2000."

Ever wondered why these owners are selling?


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## InterMurph (Oct 24, 2014)

coldsweat said:


> I get a feeling our money will be going to Sony this time around!


I think the A7s was made for wedding videography. In addition to being a low-light monster, it's very small and light. If you can pair it with a light lens, it will be very easy to move around with.

I use mine mostly for school plays and musical performances, so I mostly use the Metabones EF adapter and my Canon 24-105mm and 70-200mm lenses, always on a tripod. The adapter means I have to focus manually, but I was doing that with my 5D Mark III anyway.


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## sanj (Oct 24, 2014)

Of course they are coming. Canon needs to survive. Neglecting 4K would spell disaster.


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## gjones5252 (Oct 24, 2014)

I am not sure why there are so many freak outs and threats about switching to another brand. 
Look up all these cameras before you start shouting out how awesome they are. There are people all over the place talking about the issues and work arounds for these cameras to make them work. When canon releases them they will be a solid reliable product. THey may not have the most cutting edge features(that seems to be Canon of the past) but they will be reliable, solid, functional. Thats what i want out of a product i am using to make money. 
If i have constant camera errors i become and unreliable person to use no matter how good i could be. 

For example the Gopro are awesome camera, i have a quite a few myself. But they are in a sense gimmicky. They work but they have been very funky at random times. Sometimes wont turn on, sometimes the battery indicator is off, electronic accessories act quirky. And they only do this 30 sec before a concert, wedding, event, moment happens.
I have never had a single hiccup with any of my canon cameras. I have magic lantern installed on on all of them and there still isnt a single issue i have had so far. 
Just saying there is a reason you have a canon camera. Everytime i venture to far i find a product that is not worthy of being used in a demanding situation.


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## jrista (Oct 24, 2014)

mustafa said:


> "You can pick an A7r up for as little as $1700 used, A7s' used for as little as $2000."
> 
> Ever wondered why these owners are selling?




Actually, those prices were from the LensRental used equipment store. They buy a bunch of copies of things, and sell a LOT of used stuff. I haven't seen those kinds of prices elsewhere, and I honestly haven't seen nearly the volume of used Sony cameras as I do used Canon cameras. That's expected, though, given the ratio of Canon sales to Sony sales. I don't think used sales can in any way be used as a gauge of which brand is better, you would need impeccable statistics about how many used items from each brand are on sale, and a damn good idea of why they are on sale, to make any kind of assessment as to why they are being sold.


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## ewg963 (Oct 24, 2014)

dilbert said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


Dilbert I bought some great glass from a gentleman who jumped ship and went to Sony a few years ago ... I may be following him this Canon catch up game is getting old... You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all of the time


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## PureClassA (Oct 24, 2014)

Like I said before. I'm merely hoping (albeit I admit could be simply a fool's hope) that if this rumor is true (and let's give it some credence as a CR2, granted not all have always panned out) then putting something together with 4k and DPAF with that new full time servo AF like the 7D2 into a full frame body.... Hey... Canon may really have something there... It may also hold other even more important surprises (like a big ol' Sony sensor, hell who knows). I understand the sentiment at this point with Canon and lagging behind the market demand. But 3 years ago you didn't have the ferocity of really solid competition that is here now and what is on the horizon. I'm not sure if even Canon would try and roll those dice again for another 3 year product life cycle on pro full frame. I could be DEAD wrong. And I'll be the first to shake my head with some of you if I am. January is right around the corner. Their products suit my needs pretty well, so I can't complain too much, but I understand it's not everyone.


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## Diko (Oct 24, 2014)

gjones5252 said:


> I am not sure why there are so many freak outs and threats about switching to another brand.
> ...
> When canon releases them they will be a solid reliable product. THey may not have the most cutting edge features(that seems to be Canon of the past) but they will be reliable, solid, functional. Thats what i want out of a product i am using to make money.
> ....
> If i have constant camera errors i become and unreliable person to use no matter how good i could be.



I do my living with that too and honestly I have NO idea what-so-ever what PRO brand have you used before Canon. But I know the following for me:

I am in a need of upgrade. At the moment dollar-per-feature is not good enough with Canon for my needs. Even now as rumors I might get a new sensor offer and a video servo focus (that I don't need that much). A better ISO (probably - having in mind the stupid 4 year cycle of their sensor generations) an incremental increase is to be expected. 4k - hopefully and it is really pain in the ass to have to wait for every one competitor out there in the pro market to be before your own choosing of brand.

Now my competitors on the market can offer better service, because they use different brand. This of course leaves me without the option to stay topcat in my field. 

And slowly I have to begin to miss my lead and stay behind and that is about image and name... For the moment I am the only to realize that. In beginning of next year I might jump ships because my competitors might find out as well. 

My creativity suffers as well. I know that there are features I can test out... but will have to wait. And no - I won't rent - because these are tests of well known features that will soon or later be mine as well and I don't make money out of tests!


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## mkabi (Oct 24, 2014)

Tugela said:


> mdsilverman22 said:
> 
> 
> > I was surprised at out how much backlash there was after the C100 Mk II announcement because for years people have been complaining about the C100 having no 60p, a poor viewfinder, no internal mic on the body, etc. and they gave us all those things. I think it's true that people will continue to want more than what is currently offered partly because that's how we've been conditioned. If we got 4K 10 bit output there would be people demanding internal 4K. If we got internal 4K then people would demand 120fps. If the C100 had all those things then what could Canon add to the C300 to get people to buy it instead of the C100?
> ...



Its not "a dollar short, [nor] a day late."
And, I find it quite funny that you guys complain so much.
Fact is... Canon had the 1D-C way-way before either A7s or Gh4 came along.
Only problem is... y'all can't afford the 1D-C. Same here, I can't afford it either.

A7s can't record internal 4K, and as per dpreview external isn't even cinema 4K, its UHD (max 3840 x 2160 @ 8bit). http://www.dpreview.com/previews/panasonic-dmc-gh4-sony-alpha-7s

GH4 is better with both cinema 4K (4096 x 2160) internal & external (10-bit), only problem is that its micro 4/3rd sensor.

Both of them sound a bit crippled in my opinion.

They all have their problems, but both Gh4 & A7s is far more affordable.

So to say... this... "We want them to implement these features when they are current technology, not when they are old technology."
It isn't cause Canon doesn't have it, its cause you can't afford it.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 25, 2014)

mkabi said:


> A7s can't record internal 4K, and as per dpreview external isn't even cinema 4K, its UHD (max 3840 x 2160 @ 8bit). http://www.dpreview.com/previews/panasonic-dmc-gh4-sony-alpha-7s



The regular use won't care a whit about 4k vs UHD and UHD is actually better for them, if anything.
A7S+Shogun costs like 1/3 the price of a 1DC.


GH4 is better with both cinema 4K (4096 x 2160) internal & external (10-bit), only problem is that its micro 4/3rd sensor.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 25, 2014)

mustafa said:


> "You can pick an A7r up for as little as $1700 used, A7s' used for as little as $2000."
> 
> Ever wondered why these owners are selling?



You can find anything used. And I was actually having trouble finding all that many A7R and A7S for sale. On FM there have been but very few, etc.


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## mkabi (Oct 25, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The regular use won't care a whit about 4k vs UHD and UHD is actually better for them, if anything.
> A7S+Shogun costs like 1/3 the price of a 1DC.



You forgot to add that the Shogun has a 7" screen.

Why is UHD better for "them"?


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## gsealy (Oct 25, 2014)

Canon already has a 4K DSLR. It's the 1DC. It costs around $10K. The C300 sets you back $12-13K. A C300 with 4K is going to cost the same or maybe even more. None of these options work all that well for the small companies and independent guys. And worse than that when you do video having only 1 camera makes for a weak production. I would need 2 or even 3 of them. 

For the types of shooting we do I take all this news with unrushed interest. Prices will come down. Features and capabilities will go up. Canon's competitors will come out with new products. I believe it will happen over the next 5 years or so. Meanwhile I will shoot with the HD equipment I have.


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