# here we come, 6d AF problems



## aleshaloginov (Aug 5, 2014)

I want to hear some feedback on AF issues with 6d. 

The problem with mine is that it sometimes can't focus (I use 99,9% the central cross point).

I never thought about it like as if it was a problem until last weekend when I mounted my 35mm 1.4L on my friend's 5dm3


I WAS SO SHOCKED. Okay, it can focus perfectly, but hell why it's 10000 times sharper?

I'm considering to sell my 6d in prior to buy 5dm3 this summer and want to know if it's usual and normal to have the AF issue.


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## mackguyver (Aug 5, 2014)

aleshaloginov said:


> I want to hear some feedback on AF issues with 6d.
> 
> The problem with mine is that it sometimes can't focus (I use 99,9% the central cross point).
> 
> ...


It sounds like your friend's 5DIII and your 35L were a much closer match in terms of autofocus micro adjustment (AFMA) - i.e. their tolerances were closer than those of the lens and your camera. With large aperture lenses, AFMA is critical to getting the sharpest focus. In terms of AF performance, the central sensor on the 6D should actually be more accurate, at least in low light. I'd recommend FoCal or another tool to AFMA your lenses and I think you'll be shocked by the improvements.


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## FEBS (Aug 5, 2014)

I do not believe that the 6D is less sharper then the 5D3. OK, when you want action or sports, as the AF hasn't the same tracking possibilities as the 5D3 or 1Dx have. However the central focuspoint of the 6D is really good. I presume, because you were using the 35L that you didn't do any sports or action at that moment. Then I fully agree with Macguyver that you should AFMA this combination. for sure as your 35L has a very big aperture, so your DOF might be very small. I did do that also for all my body/lens combinations, and do believe me the results are there. I had best experience with Focal software.


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## mnclayshooter (Aug 5, 2014)

The OP doesn't describe the scenario(s) where he/she's having problems - for example - bright conditions or low-light, close-up or distant subjects, all of the above, or none of the above etc etc. 

I'm curious what types of shots are being attempted when the issue occurs. 

I agree with others, AMFA can make a huge difference in getting the camera to lock focus more quickly and hunt much less. 

A free (and arguably less consistent method than some more expensive ones) method is dot-tune... try it on the 35L and see if makes a difference before scrapping the whole works or running out (or mouse-clicking) and buying software and focus targets etc. At least you'll know if AMFA will help, then decide if the FOCAL license is worth the money. 

Another simple test is to take a high contrast subject like a chess board for example, align it perpendicular to the camera lens-axis, then place a soup can with a ruler at about 30-45-ish degrees out of plane with the chess board. (basically a very crude lens-align) and just shoot a few shots from about 25x the focal length distance to see if you can tell if it is front or back focusing. That will tell you right away if you need to micro adjust your body/lens combo. (25x focal length example... 35mm x 25 = 875mm or roughly 3 feet at a minimum... for this short distance, maybe use 50x so about 6 feet)... whatever distance you choose, keep it consistent throughout the testing process, DO NOT MOVE the camera. 

The AMFA settings are COMPLETELY reversible so don't worry about messing anything up. 

Just my two cents based on AMFA'ing my series of lenses on my 6D. Every lens had some level of adjustment needed... some very little, others a suprising amount. Based on my day-to-day use of the camera, AMFA has made a difference and helped me justify buying FOCAL.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 5, 2014)

Every camera and every lens has a tolerance for autofocus. If the tolerances add up, images will look out of focus, but if they match, AF will be perfect.

When using a wide aperture lens, you really can benefit from doing a AFMA on the body that the lens will be used with. My 35mmL needed a +2 on my 5D MK II, but a +17 on my 1D MK III. I sent it to Canon, and had it back in a week. It was right on for both bodies after that.

First make use of the AFMA on your camera to match the autofocus of the lens to that of the camera. Software like Reikan FoCal can help, and is more accurate than many other systems.

Small aperture lenses usually lose any focus inaccuracies in the depth of field, but at wide apertures, its a issue.

If the AFMA is more than about +/- 10, I'd then suggest having Canon tune the lens up, assuming it is still in warranty. They will calibrate it using a reference 6D that is known to have accurate autofocus. (Be sure to ask them to use a 6D).


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## Skirball (Aug 5, 2014)

aleshaloginov said:


> The problem with mine is that it sometimes can't focus (I use 99,9% the central cross point).
> 
> I never thought about it like as if it was a problem until last weekend when I mounted my 35mm 1.4L on my friend's 5dm3 Okay, it can focus perfectly, but hell why it's 10000 times sharper?



The 5d3's advantage over the 6D is the other 60 focus points. If you're using the center point 99.9% of the time then there's little difference between the cameras. If the results from the 5d3 are truly markedly sharper for a static subject, then something is either wrong with your technique or your camera, but it's not the 6D in general.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Aug 5, 2014)

AFMA. Do it now.  

I've owned both. IQ is not better in the 5D3 assuming you are able to get the shot as you intended. Assuming that calibration has been done, exposure is good, no motion blur and the focus hit, I actually prefer the files out of the 6D. The only reason I would go back to a 5D3 would be if the 6D AF was not good enough for me to get the shots I wanted. But if we are talking sheer IQ, I prefer the 6D by a smidge.


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## Lightmaster (Aug 5, 2014)

as i have both cameras (5D Mk3 and 6D) i can tell you that it is most likely a layer 8 problem.....


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## bmwzimmer (Aug 5, 2014)

AFMA first to see if it fixes the problem. I'd wait on the 5D if possible. It's nearly 2 1/2 years old and there are lots of other options from Nikon/Sony/ect... For me, i'll wait for the next 5D coming out in the near future but if the sensor isn't vastly improved, i would consider jumping ship. The new d810 is killing it right now performance wise (don't know about its reliability though...)


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 6, 2014)

I have to agree Ive never had an issue with the 6d in either bright light or low light. I dont own a 5dMK111 but have regular access to one (for sport & airshows) but the IQ is basically exactly the same (except in really low light where noise is better in the 6d). Ive not had to adjust the AFMA unlike my Canon 7d and I shoot lens tests the same way we do them for motion picture which is very critical. 

Try the AFMA adjustment & dont rush the process.


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## e17paul (Aug 6, 2014)

Have you tried using the same lens on the different camera? I've found that the older designs (eg 50/2.5 macro) focus better on my old Eos 5 film cameras than my 6D, but more modern USM lenses are great on the 6D.

Single point focus also means making sure that there is something to focus on exactly in the middle of the frame.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> aleshaloginov said:
> 
> 
> > I want to hear some feedback on AF issues with 6d.
> ...



I agree most, except the high lighted. 5D III has dual-cross type in center, compared to 6D is not. Esp. on large aperture lenses.


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## mackguyver (Aug 6, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> mackguyver said:
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> > aleshaloginov said:
> ...


True in terms of overall accuracy, I but the 6D is a whole EV [stop] more sensitive in low light, which is what I was referring to. In practical use, I would think the center AF performance is probably very similar between both bodies, but I haven't used the 6D. I'm pretty sure the OP's issue is AFMA, however.


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## adamsnapper (Aug 6, 2014)

My 6D is a donkey...don't get me wrong the image quality, WHEN it focuses properly, is sublime. I too mostly use the centre focus spot. I shoot ceremonies for my local council with the Mayor and participants. The hit rate was less than 20%, so much so that I now resort to manual focus for these.

I also take ID/Passport type images at theses ceremonies, I focus on the right eye, the focus beeps to confirm lock, hold and recompose and when you check the images, a huge percentage are soft, some by quite a margin.

I sent the 6D back to my local Canon service centre and asked them to check it out and they reported no problems but suggested my ageing 28-70 2.8 was probably the culprit. I bought a brand new 24-105 to replace it...guess what, yep still the same issue. And it's like that with my 70-200 2.8 and all my other lenses. 

I've had it just 11 months and have totally lost faith in this body and I just cannot trust it turn in the goods when I'm out on a job.

I'll await the rumoured 'new bodies' which we are told will be coming soon to see if there is anything worth getting, if not I'll junk this 6D and look for a decent 1DX


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 6, 2014)

adamsnapper said:


> My 6D is a donkey...don't get me wrong the image quality, WHEN it focuses properly, is sublime. I too mostly use the centre focus spot. I shoot ceremonies for my local council with the Mayor and participants. The hit rate was less than 20%, so much so that I now resort to manual focus for these.
> 
> I also take ID/Passport type images at theses ceremonies, *I focus on the right eye, the focus beeps to confirm lock, hold and recompose* and when you check the images, a huge percentage are soft, some by quite a margin.


 
Don't hold and recompose and then expect the shot to be in focus, if you are at f/8 or far away, its ok, but up close at f/4 or wider, the depth of field is shallow, and the error due to a poor technique is going to cause oof images.

Don't blame the camera.


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## assassin11 (Aug 6, 2014)

"Don't hold and recompose and then expect the shot to be in focus, if you are at f/8 or far away, its ok, but up close at f/4 or wider, the depth of field is shallow, and the error due to a poor technique is going to cause oof images.

Don't blame the camera."


This. 

I had the same focus and recompose problem with a 5d3 and an 85mm. I blamed the lens until I let a friend borrow the 85mm and saw his pictures.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 6, 2014)

aleshaloginov said:


> I want to hear some feedback on AF issues with 6d.
> 
> The problem with mine is that it sometimes can't focus (I use 99,9% the central cross point).
> 
> ...




Sounds like a lens issue, or possibly a calibration issue with the 6D. The center point on that camera is amazing, and excels in low light. 

run a few MFA tests.


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## Robert Welch (Aug 6, 2014)

I have both cameras. The AF system is quite different, so there are a lot of variable in any particular photo circumstances that might determine if one camera will give better AF results than the other. But the bottom line is, they both do a great job at AF over all and there should be no fundamental difference in the final result if both are used properly and within the limits of their AF systems, and both are using a lens that is properly calibrated/adjusted with the body.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 6, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> True in terms of overall accuracy, I but the 6D is a whole EV [stop] more sensitive in low light, which is what I was referring to.



I really think people overstate this as an advantage. Yes, the 6D is a stop more sensitive – but that difference is going from –2 EV to –3 EV. A practical example of that would be 1/15 s, f/2.8, ISO 51200 vs. ISO 102400. The 6D could AF for the ISO 102400 shot, the 5DIII could not...but really, neither of them will really be a usable image. 

The -3 EV spec is there to look good on paper, for typical shooting I think it's of little real practical benefit.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Aug 6, 2014)

I tend to use back button focus as a preference and have had no issues focussing at all. I have noted since the release of the 6D that many of the issues that people have are user issues and not the camera!!


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## Skirball (Aug 6, 2014)

adamsnapper said:


> My 6D is a donkey...don't get me wrong the image quality, WHEN it focuses properly, is sublime. I too mostly use the centre focus spot. I shoot ceremonies for my local council with the Mayor and participants. The hit rate was less than 20%, so much so that I now resort to manual focus for these.
> 
> I also take ID/Passport type images at theses ceremonies, I focus on the right eye, the focus beeps to confirm lock, hold and recompose and when you check the images, a huge percentage are soft, some by quite a margin.
> 
> ...



I read this post at least 4 times, as I was certain it was a troll at first. But the more I read it the more I think that you actually believe the poor results are the fault of the camera. Regardless, thank you, it was the most entertaining thing I've read all day.

Good to know that Canon is getting increased 1DX sales due to people not knowing how to use their equipment.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Dylan777 said:
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> > mackguyver said:
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I might have to disagree with you on this mackguyver(doesn't happen very often ;D). The benefit having dual-cross AF is to focus on the subject more accurate. 

I do agree with you about OP 6D might suffers with AFMA.


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## tron (Aug 6, 2014)

A few of my lenses looked like rubbish or made the camera seem so until I microadjusted them. I did not even use focal.
A trial and error AFMA for my 85mm 1.2, 135 2 and 35 1.4 worked miracles on all my cameras.

Now something funny:
5DMkIII No1: 85 1.2L II +10
5DMkIII No2: 85 1.2L II +10

5DMkIII No1: 35 1.4L +10
5DMkIII No2: 35 1.4L 0 !!!


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## candc (Aug 7, 2014)

I have a 6d and think the AF is very accurate if you can live with the few and far apart AF points. I don't have a 5diii to compare it to but I think the accuracy is better than on my 70d just clunky and too much space in between the points for action stuff but fine for static shots. I bought a 50l a bit ago and it has a reputation for focus problems wide open, so far I haven't had any.

p.s. what the others are saying is important. You can set up a focus target in the lawn (grass is a good focus indicator) or set a tape measure alongside, check to make sure you are not front or back focused and adjust your afma. You can use live view to focus and check against also.


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## FEBS (Aug 7, 2014)

tron said:


> A few of my lenses looked like rubbish or made the camera seem so until I microadjusted them. I did not even use focal.
> A trial and error AFMA for my 85mm 1.2, 135 2 and 35 1.4 worked miracles on all my cameras.
> 
> Now something funny:
> ...



I think that your trial and error method has something to do with this point. I first tried trial and error, then dot-tune but was never satisfied about the results. The tolerance was there. Focal, which uses statistics behind the screens, is taking care of that error. Focal really looks for the top sharpness. I also think that a 34 1.4 is less sensitive to afma then a 85 1.2. I see that more or less also on my 24 1.4. The longer the lens the more critical. The wide angles have a much wider DOF, so simply by trial and error finding the top level of sharpness doesn't seem simple to me.


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## tron (Aug 7, 2014)

FEBS said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > A few of my lenses looked like rubbish or made the camera seem so until I microadjusted them. I did not even use focal.
> ...


I would buy FoCal (if you have a lot of gear it is value for money anyway) but I felt it would be too much trouble to get the targets printed at various sizes, hanged 100% vertically and use proper lighting (which I do not have). So I used trial and error and I am satisfied. 

Plus a correction: My two cameras are 5DMkIII not II (but the principle is the same).


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 7, 2014)

tron said:


> ...I felt it would be too much trouble to get the targets printed at various sizes, hanged 100% vertically and use proper lighting (which I do not have).



Just to point out…if you test at a distance that's a fixed multiple of focal length (I use 25x and 50x), the target is always the same relative size. Personally, I just use an inkjet print of the target on letter-sized heavy matte paper for all my testing. Also, it does not need to be hung perfectly vertical, as long as you have a ballhead it's easy to align the camera to the target at a slight angle, and the software guides you through that.


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## tron (Aug 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > ...I felt it would be too much trouble to get the targets printed at various sizes, hanged 100% vertically and use proper lighting (which I do not have).
> ...


Thanks for that. So I guess this leaves only the lighting not being correct. As for distance, I have 14mm to 500mm but up to 200mm I sometimes shoot from not too far away (especially for 85m 1.2) so I guess I can make a compromise and test shoot from a little closer than 25X. But even so when I use the 85 the lighting is even less than my living room's so maybe the lighting is of no issue (it is incandescent type by the way so at least it is the correct type).


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## mackguyver (Aug 7, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I might have to disagree with you on this mackguyver(doesn't happen very often ;D). The benefit having dual-cross AF is to focus on the subject more accurate.


I understand and I guess the way I'm looking at is that for still subjects using the center point AF in decent light with a subject with decent contrast, I haven't found any real-world difference between my 1D X, 5DIII, 5DII, or even 60D and Rebels. I get the technology of the new bodies is better, but the center point AF on all of the Canon bodies is excellent. If we move beyond the central sensor and/or throw AI Servo into the mix, that's a different story


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 7, 2014)

tron said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > tron said:
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Not sure where you are or what available there, but home improvement stores here have halogen work lights that are relatively inexpensive ($20) and a couple of them would provide ample light.


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## mackguyver (Aug 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not sure where you are or what available there, but home improvement stores here have halogen work lights that are relatively inexpensive ($20) and a couple of them would provide ample light.


Those would definitely work well and I always feel silly using my Einsteins' modeling lights for FoCal tests.


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## aleshaloginov (Aug 11, 2014)

I actually noticed that the problem I described appears only when I use wide angle lenses

The wider the angle, the bigger the problem — when I go to 16 on 16-35 it becomes totally obvious that something is wrong.


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## ifp (Aug 12, 2014)

aleshaloginov said:


> I actually noticed that the problem I described appears only when I use wide angle lenses
> 
> The wider the angle, the bigger the problem — when I go to 16 on 16-35 it becomes totally obvious that something is wrong.



You haven't even addressed whether you've tried to AFMA your body/lens combinations.

Maybe you could post some full res samples of your issues, or at least answer some of the questions that have been posed. If your problems are increasing as you go wider, I wonder if you're not keeping your shutter speed up enough.

What I can tell you is, a 5d3 isn't likely to solve your issue. There's a very small chance that your 6d is broken, but you'd save a ton of money by getting it repaired instead. There's a slightly larger chance that a 5d3 will just happen to be better suited to your lenses, as far as manufacturing tolerances go, but that also is unlikely. Odds are highest that you either need to AFMA or you're making a technical error while taking shots. But if you don't share more information, nobody here is going to be able to help you.


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## mnclayshooter (Aug 12, 2014)

Just quickly scanned through the OP's Flickr page. The dozen or so photos there are nicely composed and don't show signs of focus issues to me. I agree with ifp It would be interesting to see the results on a photo where there is an issue.


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## aleshaloginov (Aug 12, 2014)

ifp said:


> aleshaloginov said:
> 
> 
> > I actually noticed that the problem I described appears only when I use wide angle lenses
> ...




Actually all I can share is that quite often my camera can't focus on wide angle, but when it locks everything is just fine. It's not connected with anything like shutter speed, it's only AF system.Besides, I was told by one technician that this is impossible to repair, though I'm not sure now that he's competent.
I'm gonna AFMA it this week, hope it'll help.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 12, 2014)

aleshaloginov said:


> I was told by one technician that this is impossible to repair, though I'm not sure now that he's competent.
> I'm gonna AFMA it this week, hope it'll help.



Since the other 100,000 owners do not have the issue, its not impossible to repair. However, Canon might need both the lens and the camera body to see which is causing the issue. Since they cannot find a issue in the body with there lens, that does hint that it might be a combination issue.

If AFMA doesn't fix it, send both to Canon.


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## FEBS (Aug 12, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> If AFMA doesn't fix it, send both to Canon.



Fully agree on this.


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## ifp (Aug 12, 2014)

aleshaloginov said:


> Actually all I can share is that quite often my camera can't focus on wide angle, but when it locks everything is just fine. It's not connected with anything like shutter speed, it's only AF system.Besides, I was told by one technician that this is impossible to repair, though I'm not sure now that he's competent.
> I'm gonna AFMA it this week, hope it'll help.



I wish you'd be a little more clear with your problem description. So far I think you've described two very different problems, one with a 35 f1.4 lens, and another with a 16-35.

I might be reading a little too much between the lines here, but it sounds to me like you can't even lock focus with the 16-35? In one shot AF mode, I would expect that to only happen if you're shooting at a very low contrast target (white wall, clear blue sky, no light etc) or closer than the MFD.

If that's the case, I'd send them in, with a clear description of what you're doing and what's going wrong.


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## ashmadux (Aug 12, 2014)

I can tell you my experiences.

After my first 6d, I thought the same thing. The Af was atrocious. It was missing possibly 95% of shots. I dont use focus/recompose. Canon switched the body. The new one - my current one- works a lot better and is 'stable' in the Af department. 

When testing the 2nd body, I canvassed the web and review sites for 6d images- straight from camera- as well as 5d3 raw files. What i found was the overwhelming majority of 6d images were in fact not anywhere close to sharp. But they looked good. Similarly, none of the 6d shots i see are anywhere as sharp as even the 5dmk2 shots Ive been seeing on the web for years.

I sent the second one in along with my 24-105 before my vacation to japan, and it did well- the shots on average are well focused. Im now comfortable enough to carry it around, and did a few shoots with it since then.

So even though its better now, I cant say that Im happy. I still dont have the sharpness or 'wow' factor from the images i expected to see with my 6d. The outer points work, but they fail just as much. 

So at some point i will sell it and trade up. 



Good luck.


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## Dantana (Aug 13, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure where you are or what available there, but home improvement stores here have halogen work lights that are relatively inexpensive ($20) and a couple of them would provide ample light.
> ...



I bought a pair from Home Depot for this very purpose, and they were just the thing. Two of them clamped onto chair backs pointed at my Focal target. They are also good in a pinch if I need some constant light for some other purpose.


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## adamsnapper (Aug 13, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> adamsnapper said:
> 
> 
> > My 6D is a donkey...don't get me wrong the image quality, WHEN it focuses properly, is sublime. I too mostly use the centre focus spot. I shoot ceremonies for my local council with the Mayor and participants. The hit rate was less than 20%, so much so that I now resort to manual focus for these.
> ...



Shooting a reasonably close-up head shot and focusing on one eye and moving the camera back just to slightly recentralise the image...the fact that the camera is bleeping to tell me that it has locked focus even with a very slight, and it is an absolutely minute, recompose, that eye/face at F8 should be sharp. Some are tack sharp and yet the second shot taken within 2 seconds is off, and sometimes it's way off. I've been a pro shooter for nearly 30 years and it's certainly not my 'poor' technique, I have NEVER had a canon camera that misbehaved/ mis-focused this much across so many differing shooting conditions, indoors and out, long shots and close shots and across so many of my lenses all of which are 2.8L glass except that F4 24-105.


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