# Holidays 2013: Where the Heck is Canon?



## douglasgottlieb (Oct 15, 2013)

I'm a Canon shooter and have been a Canon shooter* for decades*. I'm ready to buy a camera. But before I go for that 5DM3, I have to say that I'm tempted to jump ship. It seems like there's a lot of innovation happening elsewhere right now (with the 70D being the exception, but video is not my top priority) and Canon seems to be lagging.

*Where is the EOSM2???
*
The idea of having a tiny, pocketable camera that can share lenses with a full featured beast is really appealing. I need to rent an EOSM1 to see if it is really as bad as so many people on YouTube and online claim to judge for myself. But for a while, everything was pointing to an EOSM2, so I've waited. And waited. The EOSM looks nice, but I like buttons and dials for direct access more than pure touch screen ui. And I'd be mainly using it for street photography, where silence is golden, and this camera is not quiet, much less silent.

I'm seriously considering an Olympus EM-1 and the rumored Panasonic GM1 as a combo. Those two bodies can be had for less than a 5DM3, and the M4/3 lens selection rivals Canon, and wins on price. Of course, I won't get the 5D FF low light/high ISO performance. But the other benefits are pretty appealing. 

*Other manufacturers are about to have a pretty revolutionary week:
*


* Sony has 2 FF mirrorless cameras coming!
* Fuji has 2 new cameras coming
* Panasonic is about to announce the world's smallest ILC 4/3 camera
* Olympus has unveiled the EM1, and it looks to be an amazing camera
* Nikon (can I say that word here?  ) even released the AW1, which sounds pretty cool. Shockproof. Dive proof? Neat!

C'mon Canon!!! I really don't want to give up all of that muscle memory and your wonderful UI. It still fits me best. To say nothing of my glass. Where are you this year? Are the holidays REALLY going to come and go without you? Are we really going to have to wait until 2014? I don't know if I want to wait that long...


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## RLPhoto (Oct 15, 2013)

What innovation I need is a blinky LED to light up my AF point in my MK3.


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## AmbientLight (Oct 15, 2013)

@douglas: Why don't you just purchase those mirrorless cameras and be done with it? It doesn't appear to me that you value the extra capabilities of a 5D Mark III sufficiently to really go for that. I for one stick to my 1D-X and 5D Mark III and may potentially purchase an EOS-M only because of weight limitations for carry-on luggage. I don't see why I would invest in a second or third system just because of that.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 15, 2013)

I vote for:

• Release updated versions of the 35/1.4L and 100-400L.


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## distant.star (Oct 15, 2013)

.
Sorry, this year Canon is putting it's money on "limited edition" PowerShots at bloated prices. Straight out of bizarro world!

Seriously, I'm pregnant with anticipation for the next EOS M developments. I want to replace my T2i as a second camera (to the 5D3). A 70D may be the answer, but I'd really prefer something smaller that will do comparable IQ.

I've thought a lot about the alternatives. They have a lot to offer, but I don't like the idea of two systems, and none of them seem as consistently reliable as Canon.

As always, I'm patient.


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## Viggo (Oct 15, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I vote for:
> 
> • Release updated versions of the 35/1.4L and 100-400L.



+100 for the 35 L II, I was just now flipping through som older images shot with the 35, and I miss it!


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## eml58 (Oct 15, 2013)

Well I wish you luck with that Ship Jumping stuff, if you find something that does it for you, be sure to let us know.

In the famous words of one of the CR members, and I'm surprised he's restrained himself.

H & GB.


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## zlatko (Oct 15, 2013)

douglasgottlieb said:


> It seems like there's a lot of innovation happening elsewhere right now (with the 70D being the exception, but video is not my top priority) and Canon seems to be lagging.


Every company is always lagging some other company in _something_. If you pick a week when Canon has no announcements, you'll find someone else innovating more that week. If you only look at things that meet your personal priorities, you can miss a lot that is relevant to other photographers. Right now, Canon is making photographers happy with innovative products like the 600EX-RT, ST-E3-RT, 17 T-SE, 8-15 fisheye, 200-400 with built-in 1.4X extender, SL1 (world's smallest & lightest DSLR), three small high quality primes with built-in IS (24, 28, 35), a fantastic AF 40mm pancake lens, ... and of course the 70D.


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## Lichtgestalt (Oct 15, 2013)

a sony RX100 II like camera from canon would be nice.
the G16 is not bad but a ugly brick. 

something that shows what is possible today. 
bigger sensor then S series (prefered a 1″ 13.2 x 8.8 mm).
with a really nice lens that starts at f1.8 or f2 and covers 20-90mm.
1000k-dot touchscreen, gps, 8-12 fps, hotshoe and wifi. 
and very important, pocketable!

i don´t think i ask for something impossible.


im tempted to buy a m43 again, the small GM1 from panasonic. but it´s still a little to big.
and i don´t need a interchangeable lens system.
just a bigger sensor then the S series with a very good 20/24-80/90mm zoom lens.

im very happy with my canon DSLR cameras. 
but i want a really good "carry all day" camera from canon.
a high-end "p&s"camera i can use my canon equipment with.


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## George D. (Oct 15, 2013)

For all the competition announced the MkIII remains unsurpassed. However, my advice is to include the selected metering mode in the viewfinder info instead of on the LCD panel only. If not firmware an enhanced version could amend this.


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## Dylan777 (Oct 16, 2013)

To me, it's a quite simple.

1. If you want retro-compact: Fuji X series
2. 35mm sensor in tiny body: Sony RX1 & up coming A series
3. Best tracking DSRL(larger body size) + great lens selection with great IQ: Canon

And if you want all these, then, buy them all. Problem solved.


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## pwp (Oct 16, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> What innovation I need is a blinky LED to light up my AF point in my MK3.


+1 Make that a _red _LED showing the AF points...for 1DX, 5D3 (or their successors) plus the 7D2.
If Canon went with the familiar, useful red LED AF points on the 7D2, this would be a useful, reassuring "we got it wrong" statement with regards to the frequently irritating, semi-visible black AF points on 1DX & 5D3.

As for "where the heck is Canon" I'd say way out in front. They're clear leaders in global sales and most recent releases have been winners. A better M will be appreciated, but if you need more mirrorless choice, the marketplace is drowning in brilliant options. Check out the newest Olympus OM-D. 

pw


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## drjlo (Oct 16, 2013)

Well, Canon MUST have something in the pipeline for the Holiday season. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be too exciting, most likely along the lines of EOS-M2 and a lens or two. I am secretly hoping for a 50L II, though.


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## RustyTheGeek (Oct 16, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> What innovation I need is a blinky LED to light up my AF point in my MK3.





neuroanatomist said:


> I vote for:
> 
> • Release updated versions of the 35/1.4L and 100-400L.



Ditto & Ditto! Then... Happy Holidays!!


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## 9VIII (Oct 16, 2013)

I was going to say I want an APS-C or full frame compact, but now that I think of it I really want to be able to clean my sensor. Even if the whole thing were weather sealed, dust would make its way in eventually.

Put me up for a retro styled EOS-M2 covered in buttons and dials.


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## AmbientLight (Oct 16, 2013)

9VIII said:


> Put me up for a retro styled EOS-M2 covered in buttons and dials.



Now this would be something to be seen after Canon put so much effort into that touchy screeny thingy.


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## douglasgottlieb (Oct 16, 2013)

AmbientLight said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Put me up for a retro styled EOS-M2 covered in buttons and dials.
> ...




The retro styled, compact, APSC or FF mirrorless with buttons and dials is what I'm after too. And Panasonic cameras (some of them) give you both touch screen and buttons. The GX7, for instance. I'd love a Canon like that.


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## renlok (Oct 17, 2013)

Im not completely jumped ships yet but I did pick up a olympus e-p5+17mm f1.8 which I love.

I really want to see what canon will do in their next version of the EOS-M.

Hope they do some catching up as Sony, Olympus, Fuji are clearly winning this market.

And now that Sony has just announced a FF mirrorless, this may potentially kill off the 6d and 5dmkiii, and push those that were on the fence to jump ships.


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## mkabi (Oct 17, 2013)

Speaking of holidays. This is a question to the canon veterans. How much of a price drop can we expect during black friday and/or boxing day towards high end cameras? Like the 5D Mk III and the 1DX?


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## M.ST (Oct 17, 2013)

If you want only a camera for the holidays then forget the expensive 5D Mark III or 1D X. You don´t need it.

Re to: Where the Heck is Canon?
Canon is sleeping and loosing a lot of customers during the last years. A lot of new cameras and new lenses are out for testing, but non of them hit the market until today and Canon is not willing to make an announcement for the new products. It´s time to fire a few responsible persons in the headquarter.


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## TAF (Oct 17, 2013)

drjlo said:


> Well, Canon MUST have something in the pipeline for the Holiday season. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be too exciting, most likely along the lines of EOS-M2 and a lens or two. I am secretly hoping for a 50L II, though.



Speaking from the American perspective, I would venture to say it is too late for this holiday season.

If the product isn't on container ships heading this way NOW, they won't be here in time. Air freight is too expensive for large quantities of 'stuff', and it takes 30 days or more to cross the Pacific these days.


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## lw (Oct 17, 2013)

I don't know what people are complaining about.

They just announced personalized versions of the S120 and G16.

What more do you want?

Where are the personalized versions of the Sony A7 eh? So it's got a FF sensor, but can you have your name engraved on it? No. See, Canon knows what photographers really want.


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## AmbientLight (Oct 17, 2013)

M.ST said:


> It´s time to fire a few responsible persons in the headquarter.



Given current market conditions I don't even believe that Canon will feel like they experience any troubles, especially if they compare their financial situation with their direct competitors. So you will have to put up with those responsible persons actually being praised for keeping costs down due to not providing any new products.

Canon may react later on, whenever they feel its time to act, but I don't expect this will be soon. Canon will probably keep releasing new products at their leisure, feeling little to no market pressure.


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## And-Rew (Oct 17, 2013)

Have Canon released the 'Camera that goes bing' yet? :

I know it's an expensive accessory - but if you don't have something that goes bing - well you're just not a proper photographer 

As for me - well the Fuji X-Pro 1 wit 35mm f1.4 still does my 'in the pocket street requirements'


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## infared (Oct 17, 2013)

Canon is out shooting with the Sony A7r!!!


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## Ricku (Oct 17, 2013)

Looks like santa is bringing me a christmas present from Sony this year.

It could have been from Canon, but....


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## pierlux (Oct 17, 2013)

douglasgottlieb said:


> * Panasonic is about to announce the world's smallest ILC 4/3 camera



Meanwhile, the Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 has been released. It seems it's a really nice little baby.

BTW, I voted for Canon to stick to DSLRs and stay the course. I'm waiting for the 7DII in 2014.


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## bvukich (Oct 17, 2013)

RustyTheGeek said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > What innovation I need is a blinky LED to light up my AF point in my MK3.
> ...



+4 & +2 to your respective dittos...


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## mountain_drew (Oct 17, 2013)

There's been a drop in price for the EOS M recently so I wouldn't be surprised to see the EOS M2 appearing very soon.


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## pdirestajr (Oct 17, 2013)

I just want more mega pixies.


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## Eldar (Oct 17, 2013)

I want an 800E killer!


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## Lawliet (Oct 17, 2013)

Eldar said:


> I want an 800E killer!


About 8192px on the long side, and something akin to the 70D on sensor AF, to make actually use of the resolution and to read the half-sensels at 2 stops(or just add a CF!) different sensitivity. A decent sync time and enough processing power for 4K/ fHD60p. Throw in some zebras for MF, both still and motion, as a bonus.
...instant preorder


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## Ruined (Oct 17, 2013)

Canon made two miscalculations as far as I can see.

I assume, they wish to keep people interested in the DSLR market and not stray to mirrorless.

Meanwhile,
1) They announce the 70D with revolutionary dual pixel AF autofocus for video... Making it the potential ultimate video DSLR under $4k. But, they fail to include a headphone jack for audio monitoring purposely for "differentiation." Instead of going all-out, they decide to skimp for marketing purposes and deliver a product that cannot achieve the full potential its new signature feature is designed for (fantastic video) - without being able to monitor the audio on videos, your videos aren't going to sound that great if they contain audio.

2) So, for people disappointed with that omission, they wait for the 7D Mark II. This, meanwhile, has failed to emerge. So the top model remains a 4-year old model, which while granted is awesome is long in the tooth and trumped in many ways by the 70D. Still, neither of the two models may be truly satisfying for those looking for a flagship crop camera in 2013 for different reasons. 

Thus, Canon has created a situation where those looking to burn some cash in the under 2k range upgrading their crop cameras who feel the 70D doesn't offer enough, may now stray to another brand which has created a perhaps more interesting product that does not have the obviously artificial barriers and hardware deficiencies set up by marketing!

I agree with the OP, where the heck is Canon?


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## Lichtgestalt (Oct 17, 2013)

meanwhile... canons camera business is going better then all others.
sure there is a decline in P&S sales but canon is doing well compared to other companys. 
correct me if im wrong. but from the numbers i have in mind it looks that way.

i mean how is that possible when so many forum experts scream doom from the roofs for.. lets see... the last 3 years?

canon is doing so much wrong for 3 years.... they should be broke by now.

can someone from the huge crowd of marketing and engineering experts on this forum explain this discrepancy?

thanks! ;D


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## unfocused (Oct 17, 2013)

Ruined said:


> Thus, Canon has created a situation where those looking to burn some cash in the under 2k range upgrading their crop cameras who feel the 70D doesn't offer enough, may now stray to another brand ...



Or those same people might say, "I wonder if all this buzz about full frame is legit? If the 7DII isn't coming out for another year, maybe I ought to look at this 6D, which is about the same price as what I paid for the 7D originally. 

"But then, would I be happy with the compromises in the 6D? And, if I buy it, will Canon put out a 6DII in a year that has similar autofocus to the original 7D and I'll wish I'd bought that one? I'll need the 24-105 to replace my 15-85, but that lens is cheap right now so maybe I can swing that. But, even as cheap as it is, that's still pushing the package over $2,000. 

"Maybe I should just bite the bullet and go for the 5DIII, which is the camera I know in my heart I really, really want. That one is definitely not going to be upgraded in the next year or so, so I'm not really risking anything, and even if it is upgraded, what do I care? It's so good now that I can happily shoot with it for years. And, if they 7DII is wonderful...well...since I have the 5DIII I can wait it out until it shows up on the refurbished site."

Then, you see on CanonPriceWatch.Com that Adorama is offering a bundle that's got a scarily huge price, but saves you about $1,500 over the lowest prices anywhere and you find yourself maxing out the "Bill Me Later" credit limit to order the 5DIII.

Nicely played Canon!

(And yes, this is autobiographical)


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## Eldar (Oct 17, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> meanwhile... canons camera business is going better then all others.
> sure there is a decline in P&S sales but canon is doing well compared to other companys.
> correct me if im wrong. but from the numbers i have in mind it looks that way.
> 
> ...


I think it´s a combination of things they did right and the others did wrong. 
They have the best lens portfolio in the business, no question. They gave us cheap reliable entry level DSLRs, they gave us 5D, 5DII, 5DIII, 1DsIII, 1DIV and 1DX, with fairly good timing and the competition were not able to sell on their competitive edge. Nikon with AF, DR and high ISO as an example. It puzzles me that Nikon were unable to capitalize more, especially when the 800/800E came out.
But maybe most important; Canon´s marketing wipes the competition off the floor. And their service organization has served us (at least me) very well.
If I was into video, I would probably look very favorably at Canon. Lot´s of interesting stuff has come out and more will come. But I couldn´t care less. I am a still photographer. i want maximum IQ. Resolution, dynamic range, color etc. etc. And I think we have been waiting long enough for (at least the announcement of) that megapixle DR monster, that will send the 800E into oblivion.


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## Ruined (Oct 17, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > Thus, Canon has created a situation where those looking to burn some cash in the under 2k range upgrading their crop cameras who feel the 70D doesn't offer enough, may now stray to another brand ...
> ...



 Perhaps, but one major problem with this scenario - $4000 up front is a lot different than $1500-2000 upfront, I would wager you might be eliminating much of the market with such a high entry price - even if it is saving $1500. Would I also do it if I had the cash to burn? Probably as its an amazing deal (although it is disappointing the PRO-1 can't do roll paper), but looking at the whole market that is not a large subset of buyers I'd think.

Also, it is not encouraging that despite all of the 5DMKIII's merits and awesome performance, a wifi adapter for the 5DMKIII is $700+ when most newly announced $1k+ cameras now have that builtin (including the 6D and 70d). No camera is perfect and has every feature, but it just makes the pricetag higher if you are interested in that feature for event photography or client demos. Especially when there is no way in the world it should cost that much, $150 at most.


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