# Gateway drug: 600 RT + ST E3



## adebrophy (Nov 4, 2013)

OK. So my new secondhand ST-E3 turned up in the post and I just tried it out with the 600 RT. It just works. Ridiculously simple to use and at less than £200 (used) seems a steal.

But I think I've realised why we've not yet seen a 430 exii replacement. When you try the new radio set up you just want to buy more RT enabled flashes for the sheer simplicity and the price seems far less of an obstacle compared to the convenience. I'm seriously considering selling on my two 430s and just buying two more 600s now. 

I think Canon's marketing guys have this sussed. Once you've had a taste of the RT system you're hooked.


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## alexanderferdinand (Nov 5, 2013)

Yes. Very nice and easy to use.
No messing around with 3rd party- solutions.


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## unfocused (Nov 5, 2013)

Definitely a gateway drug. With lenses, there is usually an end to the accumulation. With strobes, it never stops. I'm up to number five now. 

Fortunately, the 430s and 580s are still holding their value on the second hand market. I was able to recoup quite a bit of the cost by selling my 580s. It's also nice that they use the same battery pack as the 580 EXII, so I didn't have to sell those. 

Be careful, too, because next you'll want to buy a new body that has the RT menus on the camera.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 5, 2013)

My two complaints with the ST-E3-RT, first, the screen angle is not good if you have the camera on a tripod tall, or leaning forwards, I would much prefer a higher profile and vertical screen, I know you can use an OC-E3 etc but it makes such a "clean" system a clutter. And second, you can't use it to fire remote cameras via the SR-N3, that is, the ST-E3-RT has to be the camera connected item, it can't do the triggering, you need to use a 600-EX-RT in your hand, well I haven't found a way to do it!

Most complaints about the ST-E3-RT feature set have been about the lack of focus assist beam, something I have not missed, interestingly the freshly leaked Yongnuo YN-ST-E3-RT is supposed to have an assist light.


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## PhotographAdventure (Nov 5, 2013)

I have two ST E3 RTs and sometimes they get confused on linking, where one doesn't link and the other does. A quick reset fixes it. I haven't yet identified the issue, but it only appeared a few times. Other than that they're great! I now can photograph with greater confidence that the flash will trigger.

I would really like the AF assist beam rather than mounting another flash on the hotshoe, so the Yongnuo looks good. I wonder if it has all the same options as Canon. I'm keeping my eye on this.


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## adebrophy (Nov 6, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Definitely a gateway drug. With lenses, there is usually an end to the accumulation. With strobes, it never stops. I'm up to number five now.
> 
> Fortunately, the 430s and 580s are still holding their value on the second hand market. I was able to recoup quite a bit of the cost by selling my 580s. It's also nice that they use the same battery pack as the 580 EXII, so I didn't have to sell those.
> 
> Be careful, too, because next you'll want to buy a new body that has the RT menus on the camera.



You've nailed it. Think I pretty much have all the lenses I actually need but there's a 5diii out there with my name on it and at least two more 600RTs!


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## Janbo Makimbo (Nov 6, 2013)

I have an ST-E3 and 3 600ex-rts,I sold my 580exii and my 430ex ii to get them. the systemis so easy to use. i don't mind the angle of the screen on the ST-E3 as it keeps it low profile. I also use the camera screen on the 6D which has all of the functions of the ST-E3 !!


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## danski0224 (Nov 6, 2013)

I am also amazed at how well it works.

I'll admit to not being able to use about 95% of the features, but what I have used, works as advertised. Did the basics without even cracking open the manual  All kidding aside, that says a lot for how well the system was engineered.

However, I am very disappointed that the focus assist light was not included. I mean, really?

A tilt screen or mounting would have been nice.

An assist light and tilt screen would add what, $20 to the price and a bunch more utility???

If the rumored Yongnuo is fully compatible and includes an assist light, I know I'll (eventually) get one.


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## Viggo (Dec 21, 2013)

Got my 600 RT + ST-E3 today and I love it already. It's worth the price just to get rid of receivers and their batteries. Drop it and shoot. 

One thing I first thought I just couldn't get to work, but realized I can't do; report the mounted gel to the st-e3, here's my question, WHYYYY? It works brilliant with the flash on camera, the flash knows the gel is there, it just can't be bothered to tell the st-e3, ridicolous ...


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## Ruined (Jan 7, 2014)

Probably heard this complaint before, but I wish they kept the flash assist beam on the ST-E3 like its predecessor had. While the new version is sleeker and more compact, it is also less useful in low light. Not really too many good workarounds for an event except to use a 600RT as master instead of the ST-E3. Or buy a third-party solution.


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## Viggo (Jan 7, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Probably heard this complaint before, but I wish they kept the flash assist beam on the ST-E3 like its predecessor had. While the new version is sleeker and more compact, it is also less useful in low light. Not really too many good workarounds for an event except to use a 600RT as master instead of the ST-E3. Or buy a third-party solution.



+1


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## Stu (Jan 21, 2014)

I have 4 600EX RTs and the ST-E3. The Canon ETTL-II TTL system seems to throw these off. When I have my camera in manual mode and the flash units on ratio the exposure values vary greatly as I move around on the set. I have not been able to figure this out. Over exposure up close and under exposure at a distance. That is what I had with my ST-E2 and my 580EX IIs. In order to overcome this I just change lenses to get the "sweet spot" for the flash. It is irritating enough to me to consider dumping them and moving to Profoto's new B1 strobes. Ideas?


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## Viggo (Jan 21, 2014)

Stu said:


> I have 4 600EX RTs and the ST-E3. The Canon ETTL-II TTL system seems to throw these off. When I have my camera in manual mode and the flash units on ratio the exposure values vary greatly as I move around on the set. I have not been able to figure this out. Over exposure up close and under exposure at a distance. That is what I had with my ST-E2 and my 580EX IIs. In order to overcome this I just change lenses to get the "sweet spot" for the flash. It is irritating enough to me to consider dumping them and moving to Profoto's new B1 strobes. Ideas?



Use them in Manual, ettl I still find completely useless..


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## ashmadux (Jan 21, 2014)

I love them also. I had two 580 ex'II's and quickly figured out that i hate using optical connections.

Ive run into the oddity in which sometimes it just doesn't fire. Its really bizarre. Other than that, its gold.

It also took me hours to figure out how to set it to be a slave in manual mode- it defaults to master and then you have to go through a menu screen and hit test or so. So happy to figure that out. (Canon quick setup guide did not explain this properly).

No focus assist really does suck though...its given me quite a bit of trouble shooing in dim studio like setup.

ps- why these flashes dont have touchscreens at this point is ????


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## privatebydesign (Jan 24, 2014)

Viggo said:


> Stu said:
> 
> 
> > I have 4 600EX RTs and the ST-E3. The Canon ETTL-II TTL system seems to throw these off. When I have my camera in manual mode and the flash units on ratio the exposure values vary greatly as I move around on the set. I have not been able to figure this out. Over exposure up close and under exposure at a distance. That is what I had with my ST-E2 and my 580EX IIs. In order to overcome this I just change lenses to get the "sweet spot" for the flash. It is irritating enough to me to consider dumping them and moving to Profoto's new B1 strobes. Ideas?
> ...



ETTL is far from useless, but you have to understand what it is doing, what its strengths are, and how easy it is to completely confuse it.

The entire point of ETTL is to automatically deal with changing light to subject distances, not camera to subject distances. If you are using multiple static lights then ETTL will never give consistent results *if* you move around a subject, the light on the subject changes and the flashes are trying to give a "correct" illumination of the subject. 

Take this as an example. One light on a stand next to the photographer pointing at the subject, the subject gets even illumination and is an easy ETTL task, move the light back three feet and shoot again, ETTL deals with that effortlessly, put the light in a softbox, again ETTL deals with that effortlessly. Now, leave the light where it is but walk around the subject so the light is falling at 90º to them, sidelight. The ETTL exposure calculation is now basing the flash exposure on only half the light it was before, you will tend to get a one stop over exposure of the subject. Now walk around the subject a bit further, to say 140º, rimlight. Now the ETTL calculation is basing the flash exposure on only 10% or so subject illumination, it is going to blow out the edges by giving the flash full power to try to light the entire subject. This is not what ETTL is designed for.

If a light in ETTL is only illuminating a small section of the subject ETTL will "fail".

Now picture this, on camera flash for fill and two lights on stands either side of a dance floor where the subjects and photographer are moving. The subject distance to the remote flashes doesn't change much so they can go in manual, if the floor is small and the lights closer the distances change more so ETTL will work better. The on camera flash distance does change, put that in ETTL and you will get consistent flash exposures. Or put a light on the end of a pole with an assistant that kinda tracks the subject, ETTL will adjust for that too. As it will for bounce flash etc etc.


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