# "Pro" mythbusting



## Marsu42 (Dec 18, 2013)

The three letters "pro" seem to have some mythical value in photography communities as the highest level of photography excellence and gas (gear acquisition syndrome) when in reality it "just" means that someone makes money and has sufficient communication, self-marketing and business skills.

I'd like to list some of the characteristics that are attributed to a "pro", maybe you'd like to expand the list 

* pros don't crop, or at lest only do only the tiniest adjustments in post
* pros only take one picture, but make that count
* pros don't care about bulk, weight or price
* pros only use f2.8 zooms
* pros use at least 5d series camera bodies
* pros shoot for 100% magnification sharpness, whatever the camera resolution is


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## Menace (Dec 18, 2013)

*Photos by "Pros" are always better than "non pro's"
*Pros get it right in the camera!


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## J.R. (Dec 18, 2013)

* pros always use a tripod ;
* pros never use a tripod ;
* pros can get the same shot with any equipment... It's the photographer, great doesn't matter;
* pros can make women of full habit look like anorexic models in PP.


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## alexanderferdinand (Dec 18, 2013)

I believe a non- pro like me suffers much more by "GAS".
Pros work with their equipment, I like or love using it.

Pro should only mean "makes his/her living with it".


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## Don Haines (Dec 18, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> The three letters "pro" seem to have some mythical value in photography communities as the highest level of photography excellence and gas (gear acquisition syndrome) when in reality it "just" means that someone makes money and has sufficient communication, self-marketing and business skills.
> 
> I'd like to list some of the characteristics that are attributed to a "pro", maybe you'd like to expand the list
> 
> ...


I was told once that the difference between a pro and an amateur is that the amateur KNOWS! that they can get the picture with just one shot, while the pro will use several rolls of film


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## RLPhoto (Dec 18, 2013)

*Pros only shoot prime lenses. ;D


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## Eldar (Dec 18, 2013)

Pro´s are concerned about making money, amateurs are concerned about their gear ...


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 26, 2013)

Eldar said:


> Pro´s are concerned about making money, amateurs are concerned about their gear ...



I think this somewhat inaccurate. Everyone is concerned about their gear. Pros just exercise more restraint in the gear they decide to buy to keep expenses under control.

In my mind, not only does 'pro' mean that one makes money and/or a living with their photography, it also means they have a more mature and bottom-line + result driven attitude about their work. A pro makes images first and money second when they are lucky and otherwise just has to make money. However, in every case, regardless of the fun factor, the money is the result of the image not the other way around. And the pro makes sacrifices to his enjoyment and fulfillment to pay the bills. It's not all fun and art. Sometimes it's boring crap that pays.

Being a pro also means they do whatever it takes to get the shot and they don't give up until they do regardless of discomfort, effort or sacrifice. A pro adheres to a high standard and goes the extra mile to achieve that standard because if they don't, their reputation will suffer and a pro's reputation is everything. Without a good reputation, they will eventually be an amateur because no one will hire (pay) them for their poor low quality (lazy) work.

I look at some of the work of famous pros (McNally, Sartore, Adams, Salgado, et al.) and that it's evident that they make/made big sacrifices to achieve amazing images that most others miss. They travel farther, get up earlier and stay longer. They emerge from the field dirty, battered, bruised or just plain dead tired. It's easy to click the shutter. It's hard to wait 6, 12, 24, 48 hours to click the shutter and still miss the shot because the light wasn't right or whatever and have to wait more.


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## Don Haines (Dec 26, 2013)

To me, being professional is about planning and anticipating, as opposed to reacting.

A pro goes out to get the picture. They plan how this is going to be achieved and take the necessary steps to do so. 

You can not tie pro and gear together, a pro will use whatever is appropriate to get the job done. Sometimes it will be with a 1DX and primes in a studio, sometimes it might be a GoPro on a quadricopter..... The tool used is the one that the job requires.

You can not tie being a pro to money. Some make a living, others are subsidized by spouses, family members, or patrons. There is a long history of the arts being subsidized by patrons.... Was Leonardo De Vinci a pro? He had a patron..... It is very possible to be a professional photographer and a bad businessman.... What if I work two days a week as a brain surgeon and the other five as a photographer? The bulk of income comes from surgery, but the bulk of time is on photography.... There are no easy definitions here....


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## phoenix7 (Dec 26, 2013)

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/12/25/you-know-if-youre-a-real-photographer-if/

I think it sort of goes with this thread's theme.


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## mackguyver (Dec 26, 2013)

Here are a few more:

*pros make good money
*pros make most of their income selling photos (esp. outdoor photogs)
*pros spend more time shooting than managing their business
*pros don't have to market their work

A reality check for me was some of Joe McNally's blog posts this year. As one of the best known photographers, you'd think he has work pouring in, but that's not the case. He has discussed going long periods without work, even in recent years, and as a "generalist" he is never the first choice for any shoot.


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## wsmith96 (Dec 28, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> The three letters "pro" seem to have some mythical value in photography communities as the highest level of photography excellence and gas (gear acquisition syndrome) when in reality it "just" means that someone makes money and has sufficient communication, self-marketing and business skills.
> 
> I'd like to list some of the characteristics that are attributed to a "pro", maybe you'd like to expand the list
> 
> ...



So, by what I read here, are you saying that no Pro would use a camera that was a xxD or xxxD?


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## bdunbar79 (Jan 6, 2014)

wsmith I love ya man, but this whole thread is sarcastic cynicism 

Some posters didn't get that and actually began arguing/proving points.


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## Don Haines (Jan 6, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


> wsmith I love ya man, but this whole thread is sarcastic cynicism
> 
> Some posters didn't get that and actually began arguing/proving points.



OOps!!! Sorry... 

Got that for my first comment (EVERYONE knows that a real pro shoots 3 rolls of film for each shot) and then promptly forgot and got serious...


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## wickidwombat (Feb 17, 2014)

phoenix7 said:


> http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/12/25/you-know-if-youre-a-real-photographer-if/
> 
> I think it sort of goes with this thread's theme.



nice got a good chuckle at some of those ;D


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## eli452 (Feb 17, 2014)

This one reminds me of the Chuck Norris aphorisms countless sites.


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## mackguyver (Feb 17, 2014)

fussy III said:


> Pros do not find the time to waste energy upon internet-forums like you and I do.


+1,000,000,000, though they pop up every now and then to post questions or work-related items.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 17, 2014)

fussy III said:


> Pros do not find the time to waste energy upon internet-forums like you and I do.



I do, I am a full time working pro photographer, but I have a keen interest in dispelling photographic untruths and offering unbiased gear advice based on personal experience. I also seem to be printing more and more so spend more time at the computer which enables me to have a browser window open here. I don't post or look any other forums though I look at many photographers work and have another window open at Creative Live almost all the time.

One of my observations with pros is that many of them are good at what they do, and professional photography is a business with never ending niches, but many have no educational basis for teaching, indeed many do not understand even basic concepts like "lens compression", perspective, equivalence, crop factors, exposure square for flash and ambient balancing etc etc. In this day and age of easy access I truthfully wish there were some sort of standard, or grading, of educators, you can learn a huge amount of stuff from people that are actually doing something, be that techniques, inspiration, business practices, etc, and it is all valuable, but anybody speaking publicly should be much more aware of correct use of terminology and the impact their words can have.

Oh, and generally photographers outside interests are not photography, they spend too much time hanging out and posting on climbing, skiing, diving, hifi and cooking forums


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## fatmanmedi (Mar 15, 2014)

pros never use filters
pros always use filters

Fats


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## Ripley (Mar 26, 2014)

pro·fes·sion·al \prə-ˈfesh-nəl\ 
: relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill
: done or given by a person who works in a particular profession
: paid to participate in a sport or activity


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## AcutancePhotography (Mar 27, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> offering unbiased gear advice based on personal experience.



If it is based on your personal experience, by definition it is biased. ;D

That's what biased means. 

Of course advice can be both biased and valuable.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 27, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > offering unbiased gear advice based on personal experience.
> ...



Not if we are talking English
Experience
Biased
If I used my experiences to present ideas in an unfair way, then I could be called biased, similarly you can have entirely biased opinions without any experience at all. Bias and experience are totally unrelated.


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## IMG_0001 (Mar 28, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



I like to take part in a debate in which i was not invited so I'll add:

Sorry Private, but I think that Acutance is right from a fundamental perspective. I even think that it is evidenced in the wiki page you linked by :

'' In judgment and decision making
Main article: Cognitive bias

A cognitive bias is the human tendency to make systematic decisions in certain circumstances based on cognitive factors rather than evidence. Bias arises from various processes that are sometimes difficult to distinguish. These processes include information-processing shortcuts, motivational factors, and social influence.[1] Such biases can result from information-processing shortcuts called heuristics.* They include errors in judgment, social attribution, and memory. Cognitive biases are a common outcome of human thought, and often drastically skew the reliability of anecdotal and legal evidence*. It is a phenomenon studied in cognitive science and social psychology. A cognitive bias also has the tendency to make systematic decisions in certain situations.''

And further supported in the link to 'cognitive bias'.

If your advice are based only on your personal experience, they are not accounting for a significant part of user experiences and are thus biased and anecdotal. However, as stated earlier, they may still be quite valuable as they are from a knowledgeable and well intentioned individual.

No offense intended.


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## dgatwood (May 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> * pros use at least 5d series camera bodies



I use a 6D, and 6 > 5, so I'm good. I feel sorry for those folks who spent all that money on those non-pro 1DX cameras, though.


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## sagittariansrock (May 10, 2014)

IMG_0001 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
> ...



That's a fair attempt, but your overall interpretation isn't accurate.. 
Note two key phrases in the highlighted text:
1. Cognitive rather than empirical (based on evidence): If your conclusions are based on what you think/feel rather than what you objectively observe- that leads to bias. However, if it is based on objective evaluation, then it might not be biased. e.g., You use a 3rd party flash a few times, under a specific condition when you have never used a Canon flash- and it doesn't work. You say it sucks. That's bias. You test a Canon in the same exact condition and it reliably fires. You say the 3rd party flash is unreliable. That's unbiased observation.
2. Systematic: Cognitive bias is not random. It consistently follows a pattern. In the above example, you say the flash sucks without testing the Canon one because it is cheap and made by a small company. You wouldn't have made the same observation if it was a Canon flash that didn't fire. 

Personal observations can very well be unbiased if based on evidence. If not, there would never be a scientific article published unless every scientist in that discipline chimed in.
I have a bit of formal training to back this up, by the way


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## privatebydesign (May 10, 2014)

Thanks sagittariansrock,

Anybody that has read my various comments on the YN-E3-RT and the ST-E3-RT will know my comments come from "objective observation" not feelings. The notion that no experience can produce unbiased observation is patently rediculous. 

Speculative comments on why there are or are not differences are not my mo either. Indeed I am often critcised for pointing out that there is no difference between different things, just look at the recent Sigma 1.4 vs Canon 1.2 thread.


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## dickgrafixstop (May 11, 2014)

Being a "pro" is a mindset - and anyone with a $10.00 box of business cards can declare himself/herself one.


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## jrista (May 11, 2014)

LOL

These things seriously sound like Chuck Norris jokes. 

Here's a bit more satire:

* Pro's don't even need to press the shutter button, the camera takes pictures for the photographer out of sheer fear. 
* A pro doesn't use flash! The camera illuminates itself by absorbing then emitting the pure awesomeness exuded by the pro photographer.
* A pro could care less about frame rate! Because the camera takes photos for them out of fear, all they have to do is imagine the exact moment that the camera needs to photograph...and it just happens.
* Pro's don't need to find action...action finds them.
* A pro can shoot subjects at infinite distance without the need for a telephoto lens. The camera will subdivide it's sensor pixels on the fly according to the photographers impressive will.

 What a crackup. Pro photographer-norris jokes.


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