# 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 12, 2012)

```
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<strong>More to come


</strong>Received some information that Canon is far from done as far as camera launches go for 2012. I am being told that 4 more DSLRs are coming in 2012.</p>
<p><strong>Which cameras?


</strong>It’s unknown if the expected mirrorless entry counts against the mentioned 4 camera bodies.</p>
<p>Speculation about what the 4 cameras could possibly be are below.</p>
<p>1) “Entry Level” full frame camera. Think of it as a direct replacement for the 5D Mark II.</p>
<p>2) Prosumer APS-C, possibly the 70D and not a direct replacement of the 7D.</p>
<p>3) The big megapixel entry, mentioned to be an EOS-1D style body.</p>
<p>4) A mirrorless entry.</p>
<p>If the mirrorless doesn’t count against the 4 purported camera bodies, I’m unsure what else Canon could have up their sleeves for the EOS line. A few people have suggested a 5D in the cinema EOS lineup, however I don’t think that’s likely until after the EOS-1D C starts shipping in late 2012.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## EOBeav (Jun 12, 2012)

Sooo...my 5DmkII is being considered 'entry level' now?


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## c.d.embrey (Jun 12, 2012)

Sony is rumored to be releasing a New NEX with a non-interchangeable lens. Maybe Canon will release a non-interchangeable *Rebel Super Zoom*.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jun 12, 2012)

^ 5D-C: who wants crappy 4k that we have to downscale? I want a beast 1080p codec, that get's us closer to raw 1080(24bit). 

Come on Canon. It's clear that this camera (5D3) is a firmware adjustment away from killer video, and don't act like you haven't already done it. Nikon's hands are tied by their agreement with Sony(to protect Sony's video line), but you have no excuse. Just put the 5D-C on the market for $5K-6K, and I'll snap it up.


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## Bob Howland (Jun 12, 2012)

Using a 1D-class body for the big megapixel camera would be insanely stupid, an open invitation for Canon studio and landscape photographers to buy a Nikon D800. The only thing worse than selling a low end camera that cannibalizes your high end camera sales is to have the damage done by a competitor's low end camera.


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## Isurus (Jun 12, 2012)

I would like to see Canon actually deliver products they have already announced before announcing more. The typical amount of time between announcement and availability of products has become a joke. This is mainly true for their "pro-level" gear.


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## ed24 (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 5D MK3 and I mostly shoot video, can someone please throw me a 'you're doing the right thing' bone. I'm worried that what Canon might do is make a video orientated entry level full frame borrow the AF technology from the new 650D/T4i.

Can you see where I'm coming from?


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## rowanlamb (Jun 12, 2012)

What about a boring old replacement for the 1100D? Not very sexy, but certainly possible, especially if it's in Q4


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## zim (Jun 12, 2012)

Hope this is all turns out, can’t wait to see the spec of the ‘entry’ level FF. The 5D3 is a dream but I’m having a hard time justifying the cost, still saving though! but a FF version of the 650D would be spot on for me.


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## idimoe (Jun 12, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> Sooo...my 5DmkII is being considered 'entry level' now?



Well, technically it is the 'entry level' FF now. Although I wouldn't mind having one. 

This rumor seems more like wishful thinking than plausible reality. Just give me my 70D please. 8)


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## Albi86 (Jun 12, 2012)

rowanlamb said:


> What about a boring old replacement for the 1100D? Not very sexy, but certainly possible, especially if it's in Q4



Already? It's pretty new actually...

I'm interested in this rumor though, very curious to see what the're going to take out of the hat.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jun 12, 2012)

ed24 said:


> I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 5D MK3 and I mostly shoot video, can someone please throw me a 'you're doing the right thing' bone. I'm worried that what Canon might do is make a video orientated entry level full frame borrow the AF technology from the new 650D/T4i.
> 
> Can you see where I'm coming from?



I hoping they will, but it almost certainly won't have AF. If they made something with distinctly better video than the 5D3, with autofcus, it would really undercut the c300. Why do you need AF anyway? The DSLRs will never really focus smooth enough or fast enough to do proper video with AF.


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## zim (Jun 12, 2012)

idimoe said:


> This rumor seems more like wishful thinking than plausible reality. Just give me my 70D please. 8)



It is a CR2 though and CR Guys previous isn't too shabby to say the least 
Get out the popcorn I'm excited already ;D


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## ed24 (Jun 12, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> ed24 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 5D MK3 and I mostly shoot video, can someone please throw me a 'you're doing the right thing' bone. I'm worried that what Canon might do is make a video orientated entry level full frame borrow the AF technology from the new 650D/T4i.
> ...



It was a bit silly of me to mention the AF because AF doesn't matter to me at all but I thought that perhaps the whole full frame/automatic stance might be something that would sell really well for Canon. Thinking about it you're right about the undercutting the C300 and I'm most probably just being paranoid.


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## avatar13 (Jun 12, 2012)

A direct replacement for the 5D Mark II??? So what is the Mark III suppose to be? The only thing I can think of is that due to the wide price gap they always intended to have two full frame 5D and they are refreshing the Mark II to have an entry in the 2K range? So maybe the new 5D Mark II will be the entry level full frame? Canon's road map is bewildering to say the least! :-\


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## sovietdoc (Jun 12, 2012)

I'd much rather have any kind of crappy AF in video mode, than not have any AF at all.

I am hoping the max megapixels camera will be eos 3D. If you think about it, the 1-series are always going to be the cream of the crop with the performance photographer in mind shooting sports and birds. 

Canon needs to split its camera tree into 

1D - action pro photography / wildlife
3D - pro studio / landscapes
5D - midrange FF, can do what the big boys can but has lower resolution and lower fps, no 1d camera body style
*D - entry level full frame, kind of like a 7D except FF sensor with low resolution and "meh" fps
*D - high end APS-C with high fps (like current 7D)
**D - better rebel
***D - the rebel
****D - lowest end DSLR
M*(or V) - mirrorless
G* - high end PnS 

I mean this is just out of my head, but they key point is, they definitely need to have 2 distinct bodies for high fps and high res. Having a eos 3D that will be the standard for HR photography just makes more sense than vandalizing 1D name and having 2 different 1d cameras that do different things.

It would be very good if they had made 3d to have 1d-like body, but smaller and lighter overall.

Why did 5D jump up the price so much? I think it makes sense, there is exactly price range space in between it and 1dx now, hinting a 3d series, and at the low end there is price range space for an entry FF DSLR


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## HeWhoShoots (Jun 12, 2012)

ed24 said:


> I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 5D MK3 and I mostly shoot video, can someone please throw me a 'you're doing the right thing' bone. I'm worried that what Canon might do is make a video orientated entry level full frame borrow the AF technology from the new 650D/T4i.
> 
> Can you see where I'm coming from?



Personally, I'm waiting. In the same boat as you.


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## sovietdoc (Jun 12, 2012)

entry level FF with full AF focus in video mode is a killer.


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## zim (Jun 12, 2012)

How about a FF entry with no Video, you know to keep the price down, something for the purist photographers for a change…. 650D is good enough for those wanting to do video

Let the fire and brimstone begin  ;D hehehe


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## thundermonkey (Jun 12, 2012)

HeWhoShoots said:


> ed24 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 5D MK3 and I mostly shoot video, can someone please throw me a 'you're doing the right thing' bone. I'm worried that what Canon might do is make a video orientated entry level full frame borrow the AF technology from the new 650D/T4i.
> ...



Same boat as both of you. Thinking I will hold on to my 60D for now, invest in a 24-70 and other equipment (just got a Glidecam woohoo!) and wait til end of the year to make the Mark 3 jump.


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## BXL (Jun 12, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> If the mirrorless doesn’t count against the 4 purported camera bodies, I’m unsure what else Canon could have up their sleeves for the EOS line.


Maybe the 7D Mark II?

Regarding the entry level FF, what kind of AF can we expect: the old one of the 5D II with only one center cross-type AF point, one with 9 or maybe even 19 cross-type AF points?


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## Astro (Jun 12, 2012)

i hope one is an answer to the rumored nikon D600.


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## traveller (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm not sure about 'entry level' full frame. The first reason is a comment I read a Sony rep make in an interview, which appeared to suggest the A900/A850 were expensive to make and did not have high enough margins (although this could be Sony trying to justify SLT). The second reason is that I think a lot of this speculation is simply a reaction to the D600 rumours emanating from the NR website. Nikon certainly have more room to manoeuvre than Canon, especially with the existence of the 24MP Sony FF chip (and rumours of an updated version on the way). What would an 'entry level' full frame Canon look like? Realistically, there's only two choices of sensor -the 5D MkIII's 22MP and the 1D X's 18MP; not much of a product differentiation. I can't see them using the 18MP sensor, as I think this would devalue the 1D X psychologically by implying that it uses Canon's 'budget' FF sensor. So how else to differentiate from the 5D MkIII: less weather sealing, <100% viewfinder, slower frame rate, smaller image buffer? They're all a given (I would think), but Sony's experience with the A900/A850 would suggest that this isn't enough -a major product feature would have to be omitted. I'm guessing that would have to be the fancy AF system, which would leave the camera as little more than the 5D MkII with a _slightly_ improved sensor. Unless Canon can knock them out at a very low price point, which might disrupt their APS-C line-up (refer also to my first point about the A900/A850 margins). 

With regard to the 7D MkII / 70D - I don't think that there is room for both models _and_ an 'entry level' full frame camera in the market; I feel that the 7D MkII and this '6D' (or whatever) would be a bit too close in price. I could be wrong -there may still be a market for a 'screaming beast' 7D MkII (which I basically see as a 5D MkIII with an APS-C sensor and probably a faster frame rate), at a similar price point to a basic full frame 6D. 

Now the 'big if' -the high megapixel body... I know there's a lot of interest from 1Ds MkIII owners in a 1-series body that would truly be an upgrade. After all, it is these people that choose to pay (extra) for a slower, but higher resolution camera than the 1D series. Having said this, I think that it would be a mistake for Canon to choose to make their _only_ high resolution body a 1-series camera. Nikon did this with the D3X and proved that whilst this approach gets you the kudos, it doesn't generate the sales. 

Finally a quick word about mirrorless: I'm now convinced this will be a big part of Canon's Photokina plans. All the technology that Canon needs to make the perfect mirrorless camera is now in place and prototyped on other models (large sensor in a small body - G1X, on-chip phase detect AF -650D [/Rebel Kiss XXX, or whatever] , STM lenses). I call it the _perfect_ mirrorless camera because all the models introduced so far have one flaw or other (though they are steadily improving). Let's hope that Canon can use their two years of observing the mistakes of others and produce the definitive mirrorless body accompanied by a strong lens line-up at launch (and a good roadmap).


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## Astro (Jun 12, 2012)

zim said:


> How about a FF entry with no Video, you know to keep the price down, something for the purist photographers for a change…. 650D is good enough for those wanting to do video
> 
> Let the fire and brimstone begin  ;D hehehe



well video R&D is already done. 
the functions are in the digic 5 already ... so how will that work?
imo that would only work if they don´t invest in R&D for video at all (in the future).

and i would call that highly unlikely.

they can disable the features sure.. but that would not safe them a cent (*).
it would only make the video models more expensive but not the crippled ones cheaper.

(*) ok a few cents maybe, for the mics as an example.


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## briansquibb (Jun 12, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> Sooo...my 5DmkII is being considered 'entry level' now?



5DII has always been the entry level ff


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jun 12, 2012)

ed24 said:


> It was a bit silly of me to mention the AF because AF doesn't matter to me at all but I thought that perhaps the whole full frame/automatic stance might be something that would sell really well for Canon. Thinking about it you're right about the undercutting the C300 and I'm most probably just being paranoid.



I think you are being paranoid. Have you looked at the Gh2 hacks? That seems to be the best bang for your buck video right now. 

Also, the c300 will always have better DR over any 5D variant, presuming it uses the same 5D3 sensor.


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## HeWhoShoots (Jun 12, 2012)

thundermonkey said:


> HeWhoShoots said:
> 
> 
> > ed24 said:
> ...



Enjoy the Glidecam. I use a Merlin and love it quite a good bit. I'm waiting to see the entry levels specs, it looks like a better cam for me since any upgrade from a 550D will be great.


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## pakosouthpark (Jun 12, 2012)

this news messes my mind a lot!! if was going to get a 5d mk II in the end of the month! im not travelling till end of august though so I guess I could wait! baaaah :-\ wish I could get more about this!


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## preppyak (Jun 12, 2012)

rowanlamb said:


> What about a boring old replacement for the 1100D? Not very sexy, but certainly possible, especially if it's in Q4


Probably too soon for that, the T3 is only a little over a year old. The XS went for nearly 3 years before getting replaced.


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## preppyak (Jun 12, 2012)

Astro said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > How about a FF entry with no Video, you know to keep the price down, something for the purist photographers for a change…. 650D is good enough for those wanting to do video
> ...


As was mentioned, you wouldn't save money that way. Simple supply and demand really. If 25% of users want video, than the non-video DSLR either has to be 25% cheaper to make (its firmware already designed and a few hardware parts, so, not likely), or they have to charge 25% more for it to break even. And so on if the percentage is higher than 25%. Oh, and as an owner, it'd probably be harder to re-sell to upgrade since your market would be smaller as well.

If memory serves me, there was a poll on this forum, and it wasn't until about the 30% cheaper price point that people were willing to give up video functions in their DSLR's. So, I'd say they probably aren't going away.


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## sleepnever (Jun 12, 2012)

I wish they'd hurry up and announce/release these! I want to upgrade from my T2i to something more mid to high end before all my trips to various places this summer and later in the year.


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## lol (Jun 12, 2012)

For the 4 bodies, I'd go with a 70D, budget FF, and how about TWO mirrorless bodies? A lower model and a mid range model? The 650D showed us something a bit different, and I can see the new toys making their move into the 70D at least and it would be a good fit for mirrorless.

traveller, a budget full frame just wont kill the 7D. If you need crop, you need crop. They are too different. Even today, if you offered me a choice of 7D or 5D2 to use day to day, it would be the 7D no question. Use the right tool for the job. Full frame isn't the only tool.


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## Daniel Flather (Jun 12, 2012)

When can we CR3 a ff mirror-less, or even the ef 20mm f2.8L?


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## stipotle (Jun 12, 2012)

traveller said:


> What would an 'entry level' full frame Canon look like? Realistically, there's only two choices of sensor -the 5D MkIII's 22MP and the 1D X's 18MP; not much of a product differentiation. I can't see them using the 18MP sensor, as I think this would devalue the 1D X psychologically by implying that it uses Canon's 'budget' FF sensor. So how else to differentiate from the 5D MkIII: less weather sealing, <100% viewfinder, slower frame rate, smaller image buffer? They're all a given (I would think), but Sony's experience with the A900/A850 would suggest that this isn't enough -a major product feature would have to be omitted. I'm guessing that would have to be the fancy AF system, which would leave the camera as little more than the 5D MkII with a _slightly_ improved sensor. Unless Canon can knock them out at a very low price point, which might disrupt their APS-C line-up (refer also to my first point about the A900/A850 margins).



Is the 18MP sensor really only _slightly_ better? I've seen some amazing sample images. 
And think about the 5DC - it was revolutionary because it had an amazing sensor put into an affordable body. Couldn't the flip side of "devaluing" the 1DX sensor be more like they put the flagship sensor in an affordable body (if that sales pitch worked once...) 
Also - the non-fancy AF these days is still better than the 5D mkII's. So it would be more like a 5D mkII with a better sensor (slightly or more) and a slightly better AF. Seems reasonable to me for a true MkII refresh. 

I dunno, don't mind me. That's just what I want. And I'm only coming from a wish list point of view, not necessarily logical one.


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## ed24 (Jun 12, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> ed24 said:
> 
> 
> > It was a bit silly of me to mention the AF because AF doesn't matter to me at all but I thought that perhaps the whole full frame/automatic stance might be something that would sell really well for Canon. Thinking about it you're right about the undercutting the C300 and I'm most probably just being paranoid.
> ...



Yeah I like the GH2 a lot but I'm not so sure I'd purchase one as I know the GH3 is just around the corner, I've got a pretty close relationship with Panasonic UK and I know the GH3 is in the wild. Hopefully I'll get my hands on one soon.


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## justsomedude (Jun 12, 2012)

A mirrorless body isn't really a DSLR, so, technically speaking, only 3 more DLSRs are coming in 2012.

Just sayin'...


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## alan_k (Jun 12, 2012)

I agree with the guess about an XXXXD upgrade. Adding a touch screen and Digic 5 without the fancy hybrid AF would be enough to warrant a new version. It all depends on what they do with their mirrorless offerings. If they really push mirrorless as a big new part of their line, they may want to avoid a low-end DSLR that might impact their mirrorless sales. However, those entry rebels are the perfect gateway drug for their higher end DSLRs, and they may not want to abandon that so quickly.


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## Gcon (Jun 12, 2012)

There will be no point having an entry level FF unless Nikon comes out with one, otherwise they'll cannibalise 5D3 sales.

1100D
70D
3D - high MP FF

Sorry 7D users - your time is up.


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## dlleno (Jun 12, 2012)

noteably absent from the CR2 speculation in the OP was any meaningful stab at how Canon will rationalize the 7D and 1D successors. If the prosumer APS-C body is the 70D, and there is no direct replacement for the 7D, this implies hope for an APS-H body


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## Dylan777 (Jun 12, 2012)

Daniel Flather said:


> When can we CR3 a ff mirror-less, or even the ef 20mm f2.8L?



+1...works with current L lenses


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## traveller (Jun 13, 2012)

stipotle said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > What would an 'entry level' full frame Canon look like? Realistically, there's only two choices of sensor -the 5D MkIII's 22MP and the 1D X's 18MP; not much of a product differentiation. I can't see them using the 18MP sensor, as I think this would devalue the 1D X psychologically by implying that it uses Canon's 'budget' FF sensor. So how else to differentiate from the 5D MkIII: less weather sealing, <100% viewfinder, slower frame rate, smaller image buffer? They're all a given (I would think), but Sony's experience with the A900/A850 would suggest that this isn't enough -a major product feature would have to be omitted. I'm guessing that would have to be the fancy AF system, which would leave the camera as little more than the 5D MkII with a _slightly_ improved sensor. Unless Canon can knock them out at a very low price point, which might disrupt their APS-C line-up (refer also to my first point about the A900/A850 margins).
> ...



I was referring to the 22MP sensor in the 5D MkIII _not_ the new 18MP FF sensor from the 1D X as the one that is only slightly better than the old 21MP sensor (from the 5D MkII and 1Ds MkIII). It's too early to tell exactly how well the 1D X sensor will perform. 

As for my devaluing argument: logically, choosing to put the 18MP as opposed to the 22MP sensor in a budget FF camera must either devalue the 1D X or the 5D MkIII. Canon would either be choosing the 18MP sensor over the 22MP model because it is cheaper, or because they feel it is better. The first case would devalue the 1D X, the second would devalue the 5D MkIII -both cameras that would be marketed at a higher price point. Thus, I would argue that the 22MP sensor is the logical choice for any budget camera, which would imply that Canon would need to find other ways to differentiate it from the 5D MkIII.


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## distant.star (Jun 13, 2012)

.
This is really only two DSLR cameras. Maybe just one.

The mirrorless is not a DSLR. That reduces it to three.

The 1DX will actually be announced/delivered during this period. That reduces it to two.

And given their recent history, if they announce two cameras, they'll probably only be able to deliver one.

This has become a company with irresponsible management. If you went to a Chevrolet dealer and he promised to deliver a new car in three weeks -- you wouldn't wait months without explanation. You'd go get a good lawyer.

So, as always, we'll see what happens. I have unlimited patience, although I don't know if my T2i does. The shutter is starting to sound creaky.


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## Orion (Jun 13, 2012)

I just wish they would release all these cameras at the same time so that we can decide on a mkIII or 1Dx or entry FF, etc etc etc

If I spend 3500 on a mkIII and find out that a new release just a few months later has better AF in video, etc than my 5D . . . . well it's a cause for grave concern. Actually . . when you say it like that: three - thousand - five - hundred - dollars.. . . . meh I wouldn't trade my mkIII for any other camera except a 1Dx. . . . . but still, . . . . "things that make ya go 'hmmm?'"


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## hmmm (Jun 13, 2012)

*My guess for intro FF -- Building on the T4i*

Based on the T4i -- here's a guess: the new entry level FF will have a hybrid sensor and a new 24-90 3.5-4.5 STM kit lens. 18 or 22 MP. Pretty decent AF, though not the 45 pt rumored for the D600. Digic 5 of course, etc. It will have touchscreen, and perhaps an articulated LCD, which would be a first for FF dslrs.

That might make an interestingly different competitor to the 24MP D600, which is definitely coming out in the fall, if anything in rumorspace can be said to be definite.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 13, 2012)

i really hope the big megapixel one isnt a 1D body


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## unfocused (Jun 13, 2012)

Okay Canon Rumors Guy, time to be straight up with folks. 

I assume the CR2 portion of the rumor is that there will be up to four new DSLR bodies announced in 2012. 

Then, it appears the remainder of the post is simply repeating past speculation on what these might be. So, is it correct to give CR2 rating to the possibility of four new DSLRs but CR1 or less to the speculation about what they might be?


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## thundermonkey (Jun 13, 2012)

HeWhoShoots said:


> thundermonkey said:
> 
> 
> > HeWhoShoots said:
> ...



Oh man I feel you, but honestly, the T2i isn't bad. I truly believe that a lot of upgrades are not 100% necessary, and that's why a friend of mine suggested I hold off on a new body for a while. I only had my 60D just over a year though it feels longer, I do feel like I would like something more substantial an upgrade than a 5DM3 for the price it is. Have you considered better lenses and lights to get better performance out of your cam? Well lit T2i footage can look really great.


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## bdeutsch (Jun 13, 2012)

Astro said:


> i hope one is an answer to the rumored nikon D600.


that would be the "entry level FF". If Canon doesn't release a competitor to the D600 (if it meets the rumored specs), they are going to get crushed in the DSLR market for most enthusiasts and many pros, I think.


Actor Headshots NYC | Gotham Family Photos | NY Wedding Photos


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## FunPhotons (Jun 13, 2012)

I really hope the big megapixel IS a 1 series body. My dream, I'd buy it in a second.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jun 13, 2012)

If it helps, you guys should go to the MacRumors forum and watch all the dudes tear their hair out because Apple hasn't seriously updated their i-Macs or Mac Book Pros for years. Talk about long waits.


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## dr croubie (Jun 13, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> If the mirrorless doesn’t count against the 4 purported camera bodies, I’m unsure what else Canon could have up their sleeves for the EOS line.



How old is the EOS 1100D?
Looks up for renewal to me, 1200D could be the #4...


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## fotoworx (Jun 13, 2012)

There might be some early 5DMKIII adopters with their noses out of place before the years out.


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## Blaze (Jun 13, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> If it helps, you guys should go to the MacRumors forum and watch all the dudes tear their hair out because Apple hasn't seriously updated their i-Macs or Mac Book Pros for years. Talk about long waits.



Didn't Apple just announce a new MacBook Pro with an amazing new "retina display" yesterday?
If if had another USB port or two and came with Windows 7, I'd probably buy one.


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## sb (Jun 13, 2012)

avatar13 said:


> A direct replacement for the 5D Mark II??? So what is the Mark III suppose to be?



I'm picturing a Mk2 sensor in a rebel body, swivel screen, and a "straight to facebook" button  What a scary thought.


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## dr croubie (Jun 13, 2012)

sb said:


> avatar13 said:
> 
> 
> > A direct replacement for the 5D Mark II??? So what is the Mark III suppose to be?
> ...



You forgot the new instagram-enabled firmware...


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## BCMAR15 (Jun 13, 2012)

Since they're going the radio route on the flashes, how about a radio controller in the body?

One day:

A modular camera where you pick 1 of x bodies, a sensor, a buffer-- feel free to add to the list--and when you're ready ( i.e. "have the cash"), you can upgrade the component of your desire. So as tech evolves, so does (can) your camera.

And spare me the, "Canon won't 'cause they're greedy," crap. The ability to upgrade part of your camera would force other's to follow suit.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 13, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > If the mirrorless doesn’t count against the 4 purported camera bodies, I’m unsure what else Canon could have up their sleeves for the EOS line.
> ...



i think they are going to kill the line off and replace with mirrorless, a cheap crappy mirrorless not an awesome APS-H mirrorless that they could so easily do


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## dlleno (Jun 13, 2012)

Gcon said:


> There will be no point having an entry level FF unless Nikon comes out with one, otherwise they'll cannibalise 5D3 sales.
> 
> 1100D
> 70D
> ...



and Canon walks away from the 1D4 market?


----------



## RLPhoto (Jun 13, 2012)

This points even more to the 7DII being APS-H.


----------



## wickidwombat (Jun 13, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> This points even more to the 7DII being APS-H.



stop teasing me!


----------



## Wild (Jun 13, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> If it helps, you guys should go to the MacRumors forum and watch all the dudes tear their hair out because Apple hasn't seriously updated their i-Macs or Mac Book Pros for years. Talk about long waits.



Well that just changed. New MacBook Pros look awesome.


----------



## Nomad (Jun 13, 2012)

Wild said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > If it helps, you guys should go to the MacRumors forum and watch all the dudes tear their hair out because Apple hasn't seriously updated their i-Macs or Mac Book Pros for years. Talk about long waits.
> ...



Maybe he meant the Mac Pros... And the minor spec bump to already outdated hardware doesn't count.


----------



## dlleno (Jun 13, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > This points even more to the 7DII being APS-H.
> ...



no kidding. On the topic of a sports/wildlife body, the silence of this "four cameras in 2012" CR2 rumor is defening. It could mean one of two things: 

1. 7D2 is coming in 1.6x form, but not until 2013
2. 7D exits stage left, and a 1.3x sports body 1D4 successor enters, with some other single digit name on the front.


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Jun 13, 2012)

Nomad said:


> Wild said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



Lol, I meant Mac Pro. The spec bumb was pathetic. Retna display seems aight though, but Mac has been neglecting their desktops hardcore.


----------



## Pompo (Jun 13, 2012)

ed24 said:
 

> I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 5D MK3 and I mostly shoot video, can someone please throw me a 'you're doing the right thing' bone. I'm worried that what Canon might do is make a video orientated entry level full frame borrow the AF technology from the new 650D/T4i.
> 
> Can you see where I'm coming from?



if you mostly shoot video why yuo getting the 5Dmark III? the video is even softer on the mark III...I'd get the 5D2 and save a bunch...


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## briansquibb (Jun 13, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> i really hope the big megapixel one isnt a 1D body



I really hope the 1Ds4 is a 1D body    I will be in the non early adopters queue for that!


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## Musouka (Jun 13, 2012)

Is Canon going to announce replacements for their entire lineup within a single year (October 2011 - October 2012)? Camera announced in this period (so far):

1DX
300C
5DIII
500C
1DC
650D/T4i

If these rumors turn out to be true, then the 4-5 expected models (70D, entry-level FF, Super Megapixel, and 1 or 2 mirrorless) will result in 10 new models announced in a year! 

This means that Canon would only announce new Rebel and Mirrorless cameras for the next two years. I guess they can announce the 7DII in 2013.


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## Stone (Jun 13, 2012)

I think this rumor is CR2 because it's pretty easy to assume 4 DSLRs from Canon this year.


"affordable" FF is the next big untapped market, so a FF below the 5DIII is a given, I expect the same sensor as the 5DIII wrapped in a cheaper package probably in a rebel-like form factor. The Nikon D600 is pretty much a sure thing and Canon won't be late to this party. I expect the Canon and Nikon entry level FF bodies will be announced within a few days of each other at the most. I'm guessing $2200 - $2500

I think everyone knows Canon will put out a high MP monster due to the popularity of the D800, but I think they'll try to rely on their brand recognition and charge well over 4K for it. I don't expect a 1DX form factor, landscapers and studio photogs just don't need the build or the vertical grip. I'm guessing $4500 - $5500

the 70D is coming because the T4i now has virtually the same specs as the 60D, no reason whatsoever to buy a 60D anymore and Canon knows it. It will probably get the 7D 19pt AF, 8 FPS and the new 18MP sensor from the T4i. I'm guessing $1200 - $1500

if the above is true, the 7DII would have to move firmly into the professional crop body realm. I'm guessing integrated vertical grip, 61PT AF and 10FPS. The 7DII is also our best chance for an all new generation of APS-C sensor from Canon. On the other hand, the possibility of moving it to APS-H cannot be ruled out. Canon could essentially refresh the 1DIV and sell it as the 7DII with the new 61PT AF & 10 fps which still leaves alot of room below the 1DX. I've always said the APS-H sensor is just too good to shelve, it doesn't give up much to the 5DIII FF sensor from an IQ perspective. I'm guessing $2000 - $2500 if it remains APS-C or $3000 - $3500 if Canon swings for the fences and makes it APS-H.
 ;D


----------



## briansquibb (Jun 13, 2012)

Stone said:


> I think everyone knows Canon will put out a high MP monster due to the popularity of the D800, but I think they'll try to rely on their brand recognition and charge well over 4K for it. I don't expect a 1DX form factor, landscapers and studio photogs just don't need the build or the vertical grip.



I would think that studio/portrait shooters do need the vertical grip - you cant shoot all day without one

I would thnk that landscapers would want the 1 series weatherproofing

I would be mighty disappointed if the high mps came in a 5D sized package


----------



## D_Rochat (Jun 13, 2012)

Stone said:


> the 70D is coming because the T4i now has virtually the same specs as the 60D, no reason whatsoever to buy a 60D anymore and Canon knows it. It will probably get the 7D 19pt AF, 8 FPS and the new 18MP sensor from the T4i. I'm guessing $1200 - $1500



I'd rather have a 60D over a T4i/650D. Have you used anything other than a Rebel before? Serious question and I'm not trying to be a d*ck. The size, build quality and lack of function is just terrible compared to everything else above it. The dentist excites me more than the new 650D.


----------



## Stone (Jun 13, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > the 70D is coming because the T4i now has virtually the same specs as the 60D, no reason whatsoever to buy a 60D anymore and Canon knows it. It will probably get the 7D 19pt AF, 8 FPS and the new 18MP sensor from the T4i. I'm guessing $1200 - $1500
> ...





Well let's see, I currently own a 450D and a gripped 7D and I've even got a few shots over in the gallery section of this forum with a 1DIV.

I'll more than likely pick up a 5DIII early next month so I guess the answer to your question would be yes, I've used more than a rebel. Having said that, I still enjoy using my rebel when I want a lightweight kit, which is why I didn't sell it when I bought the 7D last year. 

Believe it or not, some people actually like the smaller form factor and yes the cheaper price of the rebel bodies and since you're so experienced, you know the IQ is pretty much identical between the 2 ranges. Actually, until Canon releases either the 70D or the 7DII, the lowly T4i with it's new version of the 18MP sensor now has the best IQ of any APS-C body, go figure..haha

And yes I think you were trying to be a dick..lol!! Unfortunately, that's not something that phases me.


----------



## briansquibb (Jun 13, 2012)

Stone said:


> Well let's see, I currently own a 450D and a gripped 7D and I've even got a few shots over in the gallery section of this forum with a 1DIV.
> 
> I'll more than likely pick up a 5DIII early next month so I guess the answer to your question would be yes, I've used more than a rebel. Having said that, I still enjoy using my rebel when I want a lightweight kit, which is why I didn't sell it when I bought the 7D last year.
> 
> ...



I read it that what D_Rochat was trying to say was that in his opinion that although on paper the 650D looks good, he would buy the 60D

No need to get rude about it just because he has a different opinion than you


----------



## maxxevv (Jun 13, 2012)

Well, maybe one of these cameras include the 1D-C 4K camera ? Or has that already been accounted for ?? 

I would guess the mirrorless to be essentially the G1X with a lens mount. US$1100 (basic kit).

The 'entry-level' FF to be build in an up-sized T4i body, build quality and AF feature wise (including touch screen). But the ergonomics and size of the current 60D. Either rehashing the 5DII sensor or the 5DIII one with limitations on ISO up to perhaps 6400 or 12800. US$1500 (body)

The 7D replacement to be with 80% 1Div innards in the 5DmkIII body. Without an integrated grip. US$2200(body)

The high MP camera ? Doubt they would miss out on such a niche, probably 40+MP in a 5DmkIII body with 19pt AF, 4fps. ? US$4000 (body)

That would create enough of a gap in terms of price and product differentiation I believe ??? But my guess is only as good as everyone else's here.


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## lol (Jun 13, 2012)

The high MP camera: how many people here would buy one today if Canon made essentially a D800 at D800 price (assume 5D style body)? And how many here would buy a 1D body version of that camera (assume more fps and 1D X AF) at 1D style price? To me, 1D = unnecessary bulk and cost.

And again there's the talk of 7D and different sensor sizes? Really can't see it happening. If they took the current 7D, gave it 5D3 like AF and shoved an updated sensor and a few more fps in it, I think in itself that would be enough. Any extra on top of that would just be a bonus.


----------



## Albi86 (Jun 13, 2012)

lol said:


> The high MP camera: how many people here would buy one today if Canon made essentially a D800 at D800 price (assume 5D style body)? And how many here would buy a 1D body version of that camera (assume more fps and 1D X AF) at 1D style price? To me, 1D = unnecessary bulk and cost.
> 
> And again there's the talk of 7D and different sensor sizes? Really can't see it happening. If they took the current 7D, gave it 5D3 like AF and shoved an updated sensor and a few more fps in it, I think in itself that would be enough. Any extra on top of that would just be a bonus.



+1 and +1

Right now in Italy you can buy the D800 for 2600€, and Nital (Nikon Italy) offers a 4-years warranty if you register your product online. The 5D3 sells for about 3000-3300€, I can hardly see a +4000€ camera to compete with the D800.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 13, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> If it helps, you guys should go to the MacRumors forum and watch all the dudes tear their hair out because Apple hasn't seriously updated their i-Macs or Mac Book Pros for years. Talk about long waits.



They just got a frickin' 5MP 15" display on the new mac book pros!


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > I think everyone knows Canon will put out a high MP monster due to the popularity of the D800, but I think they'll try to rely on their brand recognition and charge well over 4K for it. I don't expect a 1DX form factor, landscapers and studio photogs just don't need the build or the vertical grip.
> ...



I'd love it if it came in a 5D-sized package. Hate the darn bricks.
Only question is can they fit two digic 5+ in 5D-size yet or not and would they not cripple enough video enough that lack of ML support with dual-digic would be killer or not.


----------



## Ellen Schmidtee (Jun 13, 2012)

Stone said:


> I think this rumor is CR2 because it's pretty easy to assume 4 DSLRs from Canon this year.



Considering Canon's delays in shipping announced products and the just announced 650D, I think four new DSLRs this year is a flight of imagination.


----------



## Ricku (Jun 13, 2012)

lol said:


> The high MP camera: how many people here would buy one today *if Canon made essentially a D800 at D800 price (assume 5D style body)?* And how many here would buy a 1D body version of that camera (assume more fps and 1D X AF) at 1D style price? To me, 1D = unnecessary bulk and cost.


I would buy the camera if it comes in a 5D style body. I have always hated the big 1D bodies, and I really don't need the extra size / bulk for my studio work or my landscaping / travel photography.

But then again, I won't buy the camera at all, if it can't beat or at least match the DR performance of the D800.

I am pretty sure that Canon will once again ultra-fail when it comes to low ISO read noise, and it would not surprise me if the new camera has vertical banding too, just like the 5D3. :-\


Canon will eventually catch up with Nikon's (Sony's) sensor tech, but it won't happen this year or the next.


----------



## kapanak (Jun 13, 2012)

Let go of APS-H people ... Canon already did. Move on ...


----------



## pedro (Jun 13, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> Sooo...my 5DmkII is being considered 'entry level' now?



8) I like that...This turns 5D3 into a "higher entry level" cam. LOL and cheers, Pedro


----------



## briansquibb (Jun 13, 2012)

kapanak said:


> Let go of APS-H people ... Canon already did. Move on ...



Dont know why you are so concerned about APS-H - APS-H is the logical sucessor to APS-C.

As APS-H still is the top of the sports cameras to be anti them seems short sighted. It would benefit everyone if the 1D4 technology moved down into the 7D market place. A new upgraded sports camera could then replace the 1D4.

16mp is not enough for big prints on modern printers - 22mp is - so a 22mp APS-H sports shooter would be super.

For the high mps then 24mps ff in a 1 Series body with 6-8 fps would make an awesome camera


----------



## Marsu42 (Jun 13, 2012)

Orion said:


> If I spend 3500 on a mkIII and find out that a new release just a few months later has better AF in video, etc than my 5D . . . . well it's a cause for grave concern.



This is the way of technology, if you buy something expensive, better don't look at the prices and new entries for the next time or you'll grow grey hears. And given the competition from Nikon (rumored or real), Canon will have to do something sooner or later, if the d600 is real maybe sooner.

But look on the bright side: Whatever replaces the 5d2 will be severely limited in comparison to the 5d3, or Canon would cannibalize its product line too much - so the 5d3 will stay a top of the ff midrange-line.

If you are disappointed or concerned about the video side: You are bound to be, this is where Canon's r&d focus is, and the 5d3 just like the 5d2 is rather a still shooting body with added video.


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## Stuart (Jun 13, 2012)

Isurus said:


> I would like to see Canon actually deliver products they have already announced before announcing more. The typical amount of time between announcement and availability of products has become a joke. This is mainly true for their "pro-level" gear.


With a decent sensor and processor in most bodies, perhaps one day its just a software upgrade away. Or even a PAYG model where you only pay for the features and shots you use?

I'd love this CR2 rumour to be true, i'd love to buy a FF camera once the initial release price drops a bit.


----------



## DzPhotography (Jun 13, 2012)

Ellen Schmidtee said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > I think this rumor is CR2 because it's pretty easy to assume 4 DSLRs from Canon this year.
> ...


I'm not so sure about that. Keep in mind that it's a Photokina year. Also, they can always ANNOUNCE them... :


----------



## Waleed Essam (Jun 13, 2012)

They'd better come up with the entry level FF camera soon, I've been reading the rumors of the Nikon D600, the 24mpix FF camera in the 1500$ range. For the first time since my first dSLR 5 yrs ago I feel tempted to switch to Nikon or sell my beloved 5DII.

C'mon Canon, an 18mpix (1Dx sensor) or 22mpix (5DIII sensor) FF sub-2000$ camera in 5DII body will both sell a lot and make many customers happy, customers like myself who only need a sensor upgrade and are satisfied with the remaining specs of their 5DII, or customers who want to upgrade to FF but are limited on budget.


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## Woody (Jun 13, 2012)

Given the current poor sales of Canon office supply products (e.g. printers, copiers etc) due to the bad economic climate, I am not surprised they are putting all their resources in the camera division.

4th DSLR may be 7D Mark 2?

Personally, I am hoping for mirrorless FF camera though.


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## c-law (Jun 13, 2012)

I saw someone said they expected the high MP body to maybe have at 19pt AF from the 7D. I can't see Canon releasing any pro or semi-pro gear without the full 61pt AF now. I think they learned their lesson with the 5DII vs D700 and will be improving AF in every model. Just look at the AF upgrade in the xxxD line to use the previous xxD's AF.

I would even expect to see a 7DII with 61pt AF if it does indeed emerge (I also believe it'll stay APS-C).

Chris


----------



## Ricku (Jun 13, 2012)

Woody said:


> Personally, I am hoping for mirrorless FF camera though.


Many are, and many will be disappointed when they see that Canon's mirrorless is just a slightly improved G1X with interchangeable lens system.

What we all want is a Canon version of the Leica M9, but I am almost certain that Canon's first mirrorless camera will be a mediocre crapster with a small sensor, aimed at soccer moms.


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 13, 2012)

What ever Canon decides to do will be huge, for a 450D user who is slowly saving money, I've been thinking a 70D or 7D2 depending on pricing would be my next cam, at around $1500 Now if canon stays close to Nikon rumors in specs and pricing on an entry FF lets say $1600 I think I'd be game.... I wanted high FPS from a 7D but if I could get 5d2 level image quality, with 19pt AF and other tweeks at say 5fps I think I would buy it. 

Yes I'm ready for everyone to say 1500-1600 for those camera's are impossible canon would never. But why jump from $850 for 650D to $1800 for a 70D and then $2300 for a FF?? Just seems stupid. 

As long as I'm talking, entry FF would be fine by me with a plastic 60D body. I've never dropped my 450D or banged it hard to cause a mark....so not sure why metal is even needed by most.


----------



## Alumina (Jun 13, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> What ever Canon decides to do will be huge, for a 450D user who is slowly saving money, I've been thinking a 70D or 7D2 depending on pricing would be my next cam, at around $1500 Now if canon stays close to Nikon rumors in specs and pricing on an entry FF lets say $1600 I think I'd be game.... I wanted high FPS from a 7D but if I could get 5d2 level image quality, with 19pt AF and other tweeks at say 5fps I think I would buy it.
> 
> Yes I'm ready for everyone to say 1500-1600 for those camera's are impossible canon would never. But why jump from $850 for 650D to $1800 for a 70D and then $2300 for a FF?? Just seems stupid.
> 
> As long as I'm talking, entry FF would be fine by me with a plastic 60D body. I've never dropped my 450D or banged it hard to cause a mark....so not sure why metal is even needed by most.



Well it's not just for the dropping of the camera, it's also for weather sealing. Personally when I upgrade (it'll take a while if I hear all these rumors!  ) I will go for a weather-sealed body. I lay upside down in the bushes one time too many not too want it. Dust, water etc etc are bound to get to my T3i sometime, although I'm very careful. That's personal though!


----------



## Marine03 (Jun 13, 2012)

Alumina said:


> I lay upside down in the bushes one time too many not too want it. Dust, water etc etc are bound to get to my T3i sometime, although I'm very careful. That's personal though!



I took my 450D to Niagara Falls,it stayed dry ish, (lots of spray) and while in mexico this year, was taking picture of my 5 month old son in the pool and these stupid kids do a canon ball right next to me and soaked the camera. Used a towel to wipe it down and it still all works... maybe I was just lucky (sorta had hoped it took a crap so I had a real reason to upgrade)


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## Ayelike (Jun 13, 2012)

A few things people are talking about confuse me.

Firstly, if Canon produce a higher MP 5D then it'll have to be more expensive than the 5D3 (as not to annoy people like me who have just bought one). Then they'll have their own version of the Nikon D800 that costs twice as much so nobody will buy it.

Secondly, if Canon produces a FF camera that is cheaper than the 5D3 then it'll have to be a lower spec. Say that of the 5D2. But Canon already have a camera the same spec as the 5D2... the 5D2. So why spend millions in development of a new product that replaces one they already have when they're going to sell it at the same price?

I'm no expert but I can imagine Canon releasing a higher MP version of the 1DX with a lower FPS. So you have one for the sports togs and one for the studio togs. They could then keep production of the 5D2 going a little longer to bridge the gap between the 7D and the 5D3. When the 5D3 drops in price or a newer and more expensive 7D comes out then the 5D2 will be squeezed out of the picture.

Just my thoughts.

Oh and following on the subject of weather sealing, my old 450D got rained on, splashed by swimmers, soaked by a waterfall and kept on taking shots. Nice to know my new 5D3 will take all that and a lot more though. Less stress about your equipment leads to better photos!


----------



## Alumina (Jun 13, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> Alumina said:
> 
> 
> > I lay upside down in the bushes one time too many not too want it. Dust, water etc etc are bound to get to my T3i sometime, although I'm very careful. That's personal though!
> ...



Hahaha I know that feeling all too well! And Wow sounds like you were lucky! (I can imagine water getting somewhere and ruining your camera) I was in a forest a while back for some macro's, and at the end of the 2 day trip my camera was covered with dust, pollen and other stuff that floats around there. Took me a while to get everything off, luckily nothing got into the camera but It made me a bit anxious. 
but different people have different views on things, haha. I mean if there comes a killer camera that I really want that doesn't have a weather-proof sealing so be it, but if there's a choice i'd go for the sealed one.


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## Gcon (Jun 13, 2012)

I have it on good authority *drum roll please* that Canon are preparing a medium format camera.

Don't be so shocked.

Apparently they feel threatened by the Pentax 645D, the new Pentax 645D Mark II (coming out soon) and the massive recent price reductions in the Hasselblad HD40, not to mention the Nikon D800. It all makes perfect sense.

It's rumored to be around the 45MP mark to compete head-on with (and beat) the Pentax 645D. Canon will have a new range of glass for landscape and product usage, and they'll also sell an adapter for EF lenses. The full frame will drop megapixels down to the 18MP range so you'll have something similar to a 1DX with regular full-frame L glass (albeit in a much bigger and slower body). The focal lengths with the adapter won't be directly comparable, as the lens needs to sit further away from the body due to the bigger mirror, and the adapter shim.

The good thing about the adapter is you'll still have AF. Canon are also looking at having a manual-focus-only adapter for Schneider-Kreuznach lenses, to woo customers with existing medium-format lens investments.

This will knock Nikon out of the park, as the depth compression (that medium format and Brenizer look), dynamic range, low light performance and skin tones will be so much better.

It's why Canon were confident about combining the 1D and 1Ds lines at reduced megapixels (for the 1Ds) - they know what's coming down the pipeline for high-art landscape and studio/product shooters to fill that void.

It's just a bugger that I'll have to buy some new glass! I'll only need a couple of wide-angle primes though. Can't wait! It'll be the perfect addition to my 5DIII. Price rumored to be in the 14K range for the body.


----------



## Woody (Jun 13, 2012)

Gcon said:


> I have it on good authority *drum roll please* that Canon are preparing a medium format camera.



I have also heard the megapixel camera from Canon will be a departure from their current EF stuff. Not sure if it's mirrorless or medium format or something else. Those folks who know more are pretty excited about this upcoming camera.


----------



## lola (Jun 13, 2012)

Ayelike said:


> A few things people are talking about confuse me.
> 
> Firstly, if Canon produce a higher MP 5D then it'll have to be more expensive than the 5D3 (as not to annoy people like me who have just bought one). Then they'll have their own version of the Nikon D800 that costs twice as much so nobody will buy it.
> 
> ...



Well said...

I'll have a good laugh if they announce a 1D series big-MP camera. What an amalgamation of the 1D series that would be...


----------



## Stone (Jun 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > Well let's see, I currently own a 450D and a gripped 7D and I've even got a few shots over in the gallery section of this forum with a 1DIV.
> ...


----------



## sanj (Jun 13, 2012)

Ricku said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I am hoping for mirrorless FF camera though.
> ...


----------



## hutjeflut (Jun 13, 2012)

_2) Prosumer APS-C, possibly the 70D and not a direct replacement of the 7D._

its practicly impossible to make a 70d without being better then a 7D....

the 7d is old and needs a upgrade the 60d already took some features from the 7D a 70D cant take much more so will end up being a better camera.

and why no 1200d the 1100d can do with some tweaking also.

ah well with lens prices going up 25 to 40% and hard drive prices staying 60% to expencive i cant afford a new body anyway nore the hard drive spae to store video so ill stick to my 450d.

to bad as im really really interested in macro video but it will have to wait another 5 years or so...

on top of that the 650d is also about 270 euro more expencive at release then the 600d was so canon is going the wrong way with its pricing...
they should be ging down a bit but they go up 30+% on average instead...
its about time the chinese start copying more then just lens hoods and filters so the prices of camera gear starts dropping this stuff is way way overprised.


----------



## D_Rochat (Jun 13, 2012)

Stone, I prefaced my comment because you can't detect tone over the Internet and I thought that my comment might come across rude if I didn't try to explain. If I truly wnted to be a d*ck about it, I wouldn't have bothered. I don't know you or your experience with this equipment and I think it's a legit question. Until I used something other than a Rebel myself, I don't think I fully understood the benefits the xxD since they used the same sensor. No need to get bent out of shape over it.


----------



## itsnotmeyouknow (Jun 13, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> Stone, I prefaced my comment because you can't detect tone over the Internet and I thought that my comment might come across rude if I didn't try to explain. If I truly wnted to be a d*ck about it, I wouldn't have bothered. I don't know you or your experience with this equipment and I think it's a legit question. Until I used something other than a Rebel myself, I don't think I fully understood the benefits the xxD since they used the same sensor. No need to get bent out of shape over it.



I get where you're coming from - when I bought the 400D in january 2007, the salesman tried to upsell me to the 40D but I didn't see the point. I saw it as being more money for much the same thing. It was a good way of starting though, and by May I had the original 5D. It wasn't until I started to really use different functions and experiment that I started to get to know the differences between cameras was more than just about mp.


----------



## Ayelike (Jun 13, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Ayelike said:
> 
> 
> > A few things people are talking about confuse me.
> ...



Interesting points, Dilbert but it still feels to me like a lot of work and cost to Canon to fill an awkward gap in the line up that perhaps doesn't really need filling... or at least may disappear in a year or so when the 5D3 price starts to drop or the 7D2 comes up from the rear.

Although the 5D2 is getting on a bit the IQ does still fits between the 7D and 5D3. Just my thoughts anyway and you're of course entitled to your own. I do however think compatibility with the latest accessories is a valid reason to end the line... or at least push out a firmware update.

Out of interest, if I ask you to go on do you really have anything else to add or were you just attempting to put me down? I'm genuinely interested in what people expect from a new FF camera that sits below the 5D3. If I was Canon I'd worry about releasing a purposefully lackluster FF camera that would be compared to the Nikon D800 as the price wouldn't be too far off.


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## dlleno (Jun 13, 2012)

kapanak said:


> Let go of APS-H people ... Canon already did. Move on ...



We have direct evidence that Canon let go of is a 1D5; we dont have any direct evidence that they let go of APS-H, or that APS-H will not emerge in another body. While it is plausable to suggest that APS-H itself is dead (an opinion shared by the owner of this site), the current crop of rumors is conspicuously absent any clues regarding the wildlife/BIF crop body market. Unless Canon totally abandons this market, we should see a premium crop body of some sort, either 1.6x or 1.3x, positioned somewhere between 70D and 1DX. To me, if such a camera is a 1.6x it will be a 7D2. If it is a 1.3x it will have some other single digit showing on the front.


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## sanj (Jun 13, 2012)

dlleno said:


> kapanak said:
> 
> 
> > Let go of APS-H people ... Canon already did. Move on ...
> ...



I feel the same.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 13, 2012)

Four DSLRs are not hard to imagine:

7DII
70D
5DHD
Entry-Level Full Frame (Rebel FX?)

Canon seems to have a dilemma with the 60D. Its price and specs are too close to the t4i. The upgrade path is pretty clear: put the features of the 7D in a composite body with a swivel touchscreen and call it good. But, what does that do to the 7D? The body alone might be enough to protect the 7D for a few months, if the 70D gets the same 18mp sensor as the t4i. But, that's not a long term strategy.

I can see Canon deciding to release the 7DII and 70D in tandem. Both get a new sensor. 7DII is essentially a 5dIII with an APS-C sensor. 70D is as described above (7D features in 60D body)

5DHD (High Definition) is identical to the 5DIII (including price) but uses a 46mp sensor (essentially an 18mp APS-C sensor upsized). Canon has three years' experience with the 18mp sensor, so they can put what they've learned to work in a high-resolution 5D without risking any unpleasant surprises. As long as the sensor is the only difference between the bodies, production costs are minimal and there is little risk that one body cannibalizes the other. They just switch out sensors on the production line depending on which model they need the most of. You want low light, low noise -- buy the 5DIII. You want high definition -- buy the 5DHD. What does Canon care? They get your money either way.

That just leaves the "entry" level full frame. What that looks like will depend largely on what Nikon's comparable model looks like (if it materializes). I'm guessing something in a composite body, swivel touchscreen, scaled-down or recycled 5DII autofocus, SD card only, perhaps no micro-focus adjustment. If Nikon produces a more full-featured body, the specs may be improved to compete. 

Pricing: 

70D – Not sure. Needs to be above the t4i, but not too much above to encourage potential buyers to "step up."
7DII – $1,600 - $2,000
5DHD – $3,500
Rebel FX (full frame entry level camera) – $1,500 - $2,000) like the features, pricing may be determined by Nikon's offering.

I can hear the cries now: "You can't price the 7DII and a full frame Rebel so closely!" Of course you can. Some people want the perceived advantages of the full frame, others want a fully-tricked out DSLR with a 1.6 crop factor. Both markets are sufficiently sophisticated to know what they want. 

Oh... and one more thing: Canon is no doubt watching their 5DIII sales figures. If they decide the $500 difference between the 5DIII and the D800 is costing them sales (not sure it is), they may make a minor price adjustment (I'd guess around $200). They might then offer registered 5DIII customers a $200 rebate on any "L" lens as a loyalty reward. (Which, of course, also boosts lens sales)

Just remember. You heard it here first.


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## Axilrod (Jun 13, 2012)

Pompo said:


> if you mostly shoot video why yuo getting the 5Dmark III? the video is even softer on the mark III...I'd get the 5D2 and save a bunch...



Have you even used a 5DIII or are you just repeating what you've read here and there on the web? I'm guessing if you're putting it down then you don't have one. It isn't "softer" than the 5DII, I have both and shooting with the 5DIII is a pleasure compared to the 5DII. It handles noise much better, virtually no moire/artifacts, 1080p HDMI out makes pulling focus much easier, it's a beast in low-light and (most importantly) it responds to changes in post infinitely better than 5DII footage did. With the 5DII even changing the white balance could seriously degrade the footage, the artifacts made it damn near impossible to sharpen, not to mention the annoying moire. 
And the video features are barely anything compared to the massive improvements on the stills side. I don't see why people think they are qualified to recommend/not recommend something they have never used, cut it out.


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## Axilrod (Jun 13, 2012)

This thread is already turning into a wish list thread more than realistic predictions.
The original post seems quite plausible:
-70D (60D has been out for some time now)
-High MP Camera - Would satisfy all the people crying about the 5DIII's puny, useless 22.3MP
-Entry Level FF - If the D600 really ends up being $1500, Canon will have to answer with something.

And I'm sure they meant 4 cameras, 4 DSLRs just seems crazy, so the 4th camera is probably the mirrorless (which we know is coming).

And yes Canon has been bad about delivering products on time, but as I recall I had a 5DIII in my hands 3 weeks after the announcement, so getting these new products delivered in a timely manner isn't impossible.


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## dlleno (Jun 13, 2012)

dilbert said:


> APS-H is an accident of history, not a product of design. It represents the maximum sensor size that canon could manufacture at that time with a single pass. They can now do that for 35mm sensors.



accpepting that as true I have no argument there; and the 1D/1Ds amalgamation into 1DX may certainly reflect that. But what matters now is unrelated to manufacturing history. what matters is how Canon will meet the needs of the 1D4 Wildlife/BIF togs, i.e. will they provide any crop body at all, or will they force the purchase of more glass to get "more pixels on the subject" in distance limited situations.


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## Albi86 (Jun 13, 2012)

dlleno said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > APS-H is an accident of history, not a product of design. It represents the maximum sensor size that canon could manufacture at that time with a single pass. They can now do that for 35mm sensors.
> ...



Wait, the amalgamation reflects the fact that an APS-H sensor has no place in the flagship 1D line.
Who said it cannot replace APS-C as a high-end crop? It would boost IQ quite a bit, something Canon is struggling with lately. It's embarassing if they keep using the polished version of the old 18MP sensor as they did for the 650D. That one is a Rebel so it's ok, but on a 7D2?


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## preppyak (Jun 13, 2012)

Ayelike said:


> Interesting points, Dilbert but it still feels to me like a lot of work and cost to Canon to fill an awkward gap in the line up that perhaps doesn't really need filling... or at least may disappear in a year or so when the 5D3 price starts to drop or the 7D2 comes up from the rear.
> 
> Although the 5D2 is getting on a bit the IQ does still fits between the 7D and 5D3. Just my thoughts anyway and you're of course entitled to your own. I do however think compatibility with the latest accessories is a valid reason to end the line... or at least push out a firmware update.


Here's the thing...the cheaper the camera gets, the less the consumer will have researched little details, and the more they'll want the newest thing. They are also the lifeblood of companies, because hooking someone in at the entry level is how you get them upgrading and sticking with the company.

So, if Nikon releases a D600 with something pretty close to the reported specs at say $2000ish, then the 5dII market is gonna dry up fast. I can't imagine the person who would want a Ti level auto-focus over even the 7D autofocus, or a 4yr old sensor vs a brand new sensor. They'd want it even less if the cost is <$2000. And an entry-level full-frame is where you hook your high ticket buyers. You go full-frame, you start buying L glass...

The D800/5dIII thing won't affect Canon, but not having an answer to a D600 would.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 13, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> Sooo...my 5DmkII is being considered 'entry level' now?


 
5D's have always been Canon's entry level FF bodies. They have only had two choices, now it sounds like three levels. Thats likely why the 5D MK III jumped up in price, to create room for a lower cost entry level body with features similar to the 5D MK II. Sometimes, Canon just rebadges a body, drops the price, and its a entry level.


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## Rocky (Jun 13, 2012)

"The 18mp sensor is having more noise at LOW ISO (eg. 100) than the older 15, 12 or 10 mp sensor" Is this a true statement?? If it is true why are we still wanting higher mp on the APS-C sensor??Hope someone will sine some light on this. Thanks


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## dlleno (Jun 13, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> dlleno said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



exactly. Canon has never hinted that APS-H is dead . that came from this site


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## unfocused (Jun 13, 2012)

> exactly. Canon has never hinted that APS-H is dead . that came from this site



No. Actually it didn't. It came from Canon announcing the merger of the two 1D models into one, which included statements that said that up-sampling images from the new 1DX would result in a quality comparable to the APS-H crop. They later made statements about keeping their options open and general statements about their commitment to professional sports and wildlife photographers.

Now, if you wish to keep the hope alive, that's fine. But let's be realistic about things. We are talking about a transitional technology that only one manufacturer used and even that manufacturer never supported with a single lens.

It's true, Canon has never made a clear "close the door" statement saying they are dropping APS-H. But, such statements are rare in the business world. 

I'm not arguing the quality of the format. But, if you travel the technology highway you'll see the ditches are filled with products that were of higher quality than those that ran them off the road.


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## Albi86 (Jun 13, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Well look at all of the new big glass that Canon has announced and brought to market in the last 12 months. What do you think their strategy is?



Most of those glasses are out of reach for everybody who isn't a very specialised pro. And those guys are very few, it's not them who makes the market.


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## Fishnose (Jun 13, 2012)

Bob Howland said:


> Using a 1D-class body for the big megapixel camera would be insanely stupid, an open invitation for Canon studio and landscape photographers to buy a Nikon D800. The only thing worse than selling a low end camera that cannibalizes your high end camera sales is to have the damage done by a competitor's low end camera.



So, the D800 is 'low end' becasue it doesn't have integrated grip? Fascinating.


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## briansquibb (Jun 13, 2012)

dilbert said:


> dlleno said:
> 
> 
> > kapanak said:
> ...



Canon is not the only manufacturer of APS-H

APS-H has been consistently the top sports performer for about 10 years.

Why dump it when APS-C is about to be swamped by the P&S APS-C?


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## dlleno (Jun 13, 2012)

unfocused said:


> > exactly. Canon has never hinted that APS-H is dead . that came from this site
> 
> 
> 
> No. Actually it didn't. It came from Canon announcing the merger of the two 1D models into one, which included statements that said that up-sampling images from the new 1DX would result in a quality comparable to the APS-H crop. They later made statements about keeping their options open and general statements about their commitment to professional sports and wildlife photographers.



well, not to nit pick, but the most direct statement about APS-H being dead came from this site. Canon has never stated APS-H is dead, as the owner of this site has done. To be sure inferences of such can be plausibly drawn from the Canon statements, but one can also infer that Canon's commitment to pro sports togs does not mean to forcing them into buying longer glass.


> ...
> I'm not arguing the quality of the format. But, if you travel the technology highway you'll see the ditches are filled with products that were of higher quality than those that ran them off the road.



sure, Sony Beta is one example. but all of this is just to say that one opinion is as good as another; if Canon decides they can be profitable and that market demands H they will do it, and we'll just have to see what direction they take. Its just my preference to avoid dwelling on the perceived transitional nature of APS-H, and instead concentrate on what it means for Canon to remain committed to pro sports.


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## ed24 (Jun 13, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> Pompo said:
> 
> 
> > if you mostly shoot video why yuo getting the 5Dmark III? the video is even softer on the mark III...I'd get the 5D2 and save a bunch...
> ...



Sir, you just made me pull the trigger. I thank you. 

Hello Mr 5D MK3.


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## CatfishSoupFTW (Jun 13, 2012)

im excited to see if there will be an "entry level" FF. I have my eyes set on a 5Dmrk3 soon time, but id like to see what canon has up their sleeve. I cant wait though!!!! SDFDGRWGR


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## Marsu42 (Jun 13, 2012)

CatfishSoupFTW said:


> im excited to see if there will be an "entry level" FF. I have my eyes set on a 5Dmrk3 soon time, but id like to see what canon has up their sleeve. I cant wait though!!!! SDFDGRWGR



I'm very interested too, but wouldn't get excited to soon: To protect their 5d3, an "entry ff" body will likely be a paper box with no features around the well-known ff sensor from the 5d3... and this wouldn't be very competitive vs. the (rumored!) d600, Canon might not go this way at all atm.

After 1-2 years after the 5d3 release, Canon might trickle down the sensor & features like the 7d -> 60d, but not after a few month - even Canon marketing would have a hard time explaining this to 5d3 customers.


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## Axilrod (Jun 13, 2012)

ed24 said:


> Axilrod said:
> 
> 
> > Pompo said:
> ...



You're very welcome, it's a great camera and even if you didn't like it for some reason you can sell it in a heartbeat with virtually no loss. It's been a joy to shoot with and it's hard to go back to the Mark II after using it.


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## c.d.embrey (Jun 13, 2012)

sb said:


> I'm picturing a Mk2 sensor in a rebel body ...



I agree, if it's priced between the POS 60D and the EOS 7D, that's all it could be. A resin body for sure, maybe a PentaMirror instead of a PentaPrism, no weather sealing ...


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## c.d.embrey (Jun 13, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I would think that studio/portrait shooters do need the vertical grip - you cant shoot all day without one



Ive no interest in carrying around a cast iron brick all day. I'll take a 5D3 or a D800 anytime over a 1Ds or a D3. YMMV


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## dlleno (Jun 14, 2012)

I have interest ,but would be fine with an optional grip, even with the (lack of) weather sealing that is implied. The option to go either way would be attractive.


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## c.d.embrey (Jun 14, 2012)

preppyak said:


> And an entry-level full-frame is where you hook your high ticket buyers. You go full-frame, you start buying L glass...



Why would *Low Budget full frame* buyers buy *High-Dollar L-glass*? Seems likely they would buy a 5D3 if they had L-glass money. It's much more likely that *Low Budget Buyers* will buy the *Low Cost* 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8 and the 85mm f/1.8. Or variable f/stop zoomz.

BTW, Nikon has much more friendly prices on their mid-range lenses. Their 28mm f/1.8 costs less than the Canon 28mm f/2.8 fore instance.


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## Ricku (Jun 14, 2012)

dlleno said:


> I have interest ,but would be fine with an optional grip, even with the (lack of) weather sealing that is implied. The option to go either way would be attractive.


This.

Why do they even have to make the 1D size cameras? This makes them completely unattractive for me and others who NEVER want to have the extra size and bulk of a griped body.


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## dlleno (Jun 14, 2012)

when the grip style body is desired for ergonomics (for example, lots of vertical shooting handheld) larger/longer battery life, and duplicate controls such as the shutter button, there are real estate advantages to put more buttons in more places to make the user interface more usable and flexible/customizable.


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## dlleno (Jun 14, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > And an entry-level full-frame is where you hook your high ticket buyers. You go full-frame, you start buying L glass...
> ...



FF and L Glass is where you take full advantage of the highest possible IQ. For those on fixed budgets, for example, the cost difference between two camera bodies can be applied to glass, yielding more high quality shots than investing the same amount in a more expensive body.


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## Wildfire (Jun 14, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Why would *Low Budget full frame* buyers buy *High-Dollar L-glass*? Seems likely they would buy a 5D3 if they had L-glass money.



Not necessarily. I own a 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II and a Rebel T3i. Bought the 70-200mm practically new on CL for $1700 with intent to sell it for more, but decided not to after seeing how FREAKING AWESOME it is.

The 5D3 is waaay too expensive but a sub-$2000 full frame is of great interest to me, whether it's a new body or a price-dropped MK2. Anything I can use to take advantage of my L glass without hitting my wallet too hard.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 14, 2012)

bdeutsch said:


> that would be the "entry level FF". If Canon doesn't release a competitor to the D600 (if it meets the rumored specs), they are going to get crushed in the DSLR market for most enthusiasts and many pros, I think.



Pros will get the 5d3 or 1dx anyway, and enthusiasts are enthusiasts because they don't exactly care about the price tag. Another poster correctly pointed out that even the 5d3 price tag is tiny in comparison to what people shell out to get L lenses & Canon flashes.

We still have to see what the d600 is really like and how it performs in real world situations - if it's severely limited except for the sensor, Canon might be better off releasing a very good 70d, just phase out the 5d2 and then let the 5d3 price drop during the next year. Then the d600 will meet a proven, firmware-debugged 5d3 with magic lantern @$2500.


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## Bob Howland (Jun 14, 2012)

Fishnose said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > Using a 1D-class body for the big megapixel camera would be insanely stupid, an open invitation for Canon studio and landscape photographers to buy a Nikon D800. The only thing worse than selling a low end camera that cannibalizes your high end camera sales is to have the damage done by a competitor's low end camera.
> ...


There is also the difference in price between the D800 and 1Dx, but you already knew that, didn't you? Does the phrase "willfully misunderstand" mean anything to you?


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## RGomezPhotos (Jun 14, 2012)

I totally agree with you and wishing for this. Give me a 5D Mark III without video and I'd be SUPER happy. It might even have better FPS too...



zim said:


> How about a FF entry with no Video, you know to keep the price down, something for the purist photographers for a change…. 650D is good enough for those wanting to do video
> 
> Let the fire and brimstone begin  ;D hehehe


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## x-vision (Jun 14, 2012)

Four new DSLRs ??? !

Am I the only one who thinks that this is nuts?
(Sorry, haven't gone through all posts in this thread.)

It's very likely that the mirrorless models will come as a pair - a basic one and a premium one (like Nikon's V1 and J1).
There's is also a (slight) chance for a 60D replacement at Photokina. But that's about it.

The 7D is getting a firmware update. So, certainly no 7DII this year. Maybe next year - or never. 
The 5DII *is* Canon's entry level FF right now. So, no new 'entry level' FF this year either. 

The 1DX is not even on sale yet, nine months after announcement. And yet, people are talking about a 1DsX.
Not happening this year, that's for sure. 

So, for the remaining year, we'll get two mirrorless models and possibly a 70D.
This makes a total of *one* DSLR, not four. 
And this DSLR, the 70D, is more likely to be announced early next year, not this year.


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## D_Rochat (Jun 14, 2012)

The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.

I would like to see a Canon mirrorless similar to the Olympus OM-D. That thing and a 17mm (34mm equivalent) would make a great little street camera


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## briansquibb (Jun 14, 2012)

Ricku said:


> dlleno said:
> 
> 
> > I have interest ,but would be fine with an optional grip, even with the (lack of) weather sealing that is implied. The option to go either way would be attractive.
> ...



A 1 series is LIGHTER than the 5DIII with a grip


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## briansquibb (Jun 14, 2012)

dilbert said:


> D_Rochat said:
> 
> 
> > The only certainty is that none of us *no *what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.
> ...



October 2011 was the first time I remember seeing a press release about the merge


----------



## briansquibb (Jun 14, 2012)

dilbert said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



So it was rumour/speculation then.

Personally I have never believed that the 1DX was a sucessor to the 1DS. It doesn't come even close, good camera though it might be.


----------



## briansquibb (Jun 14, 2012)

dilbert said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I had 40 years of listening to executives and most of the time all I heard was personal opinion (useless unless from the CEO), words without real meaning, words with a personal agenda, bs or 'facts without foundation'. Off the record comments from an executive to a tester should be taken with a pinch of salt. 

How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?

The 1DX is IMO a replacement for the 1D4 - the 1DS3 was just dumped with the usual executive words around it to avoid upsetting the studio shooters


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## gmrza (Jun 14, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I had 40 years of listening to executives and most of the time all I heard was personal opinion (useless unless from the CEO), words without real meaning, words with a personal agenda, bs or 'facts without foundation'. Off the record comments from an executive to a tester should be taken with a pinch of salt.
> 
> How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?
> 
> The 1DX is IMO a replacement for the 1D4 - the 1DS3 was just dumped with the usual executive words around it to avoid upsetting the studio shooters



Alternatively, you could even view the 5DIII as the replacement for the 1DsIII. That is assuming that a studio camera doesn't need top of the line weather sealing, and considering how the 5DII cannibalised sales of the 1DsIII. Of course, that does not suit everybody...


----------



## briansquibb (Jun 14, 2012)

gmrza said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > I had 40 years of listening to executives and most of the time all I heard was personal opinion (useless unless from the CEO), words without real meaning, words with a personal agenda, bs or 'facts without foundation'. Off the record comments from an executive to a tester should be taken with a pinch of salt.
> ...



A 5DIII with grips could be used in the studio in the same way a 5DII would be.

However the IQ of the 5DII is not as good as the 1DS3 .....


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## plam_1980 (Jun 14, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Ayelike said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Sorry to disagree with you, i feel Ayelike has some valid points and you are not addressing them :
1. I suppose he says why anyone will buy a new camera if it will have so similar specifications to 5D2 (the GPS adapter and PDAF alone are not sufficient in my view) when the competition has a new camera with better specs at lower price?

2. Why would anyone buy a Canon 5HD at double the price of D800, or if Canon 5HD is less expensive, why is 5D3 so expensive?

In general you are discussing why someone would buy a new vs. an old Canon camera, but you are totally disregarding competition


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## Marsu42 (Jun 14, 2012)

plam_1980 said:


> Sorry to disagree with you, i feel Ayelike has some valid points and you are not addressing them :
> 1. I suppose he says why anyone will buy a new camera if it will have so similar specifications to 5D2 (the GPS adapter and PDAF alone are not sufficient in my view) when the competition has a new camera with better specs at lower price?



The *advantage* of an older body is that it is has a debugged firmware, it runs magic lantern now (!) and there's plenty of 3rd party gear around. Of course time will change that, except for the sad fact that the 5d3 doesn't take other viewfinder screens - doh.

I just had a very good look at the raw samples of dpreview with Lightroom, and I have to say up to iso6400 I cannot tell the 5d2 and 5d3 apart if I don't use the "nicer" noise signature of the 5d3 as a clue. Esp. in problematic, darker areas the 5d3 is hardly any better. The d800 sensor blows Canon out of the water here - so that can't be it.

But there are some harder and softer facts that make the 5d3 an upgrade, but everyone has to evaluate him/herself if it's "worth it".I'm very torn myself because $3500 is very ambitious indeed for the 5d3, it is an enthusiast model after all with just 150k shutter rating, and Canon cut some corners like the crippled sd card controller & no assist beam.

* 6 fps (vs 4 fps mk2 or d800) - this really is a difference for bracketing or quck burst shots

* more precise af servo system - though it sucks in one-shot mode for lenses slower than f4, and it seems to have speed issues because the original design seems to have the faster 1dx in mind.

* quiet shutter mode - could make a difference if you are allowed to shoot in some places or not unless mirrorless cameras are around

* better control layout (the 5d2 is like a 40d on speed, the 5d3 is more like 60d/7d)

* better auto white balance

* no moiree in video

* better lcd like 1dx

* better sealing for peace of mind, though certainly not a 1d outdoor body

* updated firmware hardware support (radio flashes, gps)

* expanded firmware features like bracketing, though magic lantern on the 5d2 (focus peaking, unlimited automatic bracketing, timer shots ...) is still way ahead.


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## psolberg (Jun 14, 2012)

4 cameras are IMO far more predictable, and much less exciting:

-new entry level rebel
-60D update
-7D update
-G line update.

There will not be a 5DII replacement until the 5D4. A full frame high MP body is plaussible, but then why did canon pretended to merge the 1Ds and 1D line just to split them again?. I guess they are re-considering their move since Nikon didn't do that and will instead release a D4x. If it is a 1D style body with big MP from canon, expect 8 - 10 thousand dollar price tag.


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## iP337 (Jun 14, 2012)

More Wish-Listing!!! 

Here's what I expect/wish for the Canon 2012 lineup

*$500 range: A pocketable 18mp APS-C Mirrorless with 40/2.8 STM and PDAF to replace the 1100D and to compete with NEX and Fuji cameras. _(Entry level Mirrorless?)_
$900 range: The 650D
*$1300 range: A 22mp APS-C with improved morie and aliasing in 7D like body and feature set. _(70D?)_
$1600 range: The 7D, _with added 650D PDAF & noise performance via firmware update or Magic Lantern support :-D_
$2000 range: The 5D mark II
*$2500 range: A retro rangefinder style 22mp "Photo Full Frame" mirrorless with 650D like features _(Entry level FF?)_
*$3000 range: High Mp "Full Frame" with a 22Mp (or 18Mp) APS-C crop mode in a 5Dmk3 body & features. _(7D mkII?)_
$3500 range: The 5D mark III
$7000 range: I don't care...


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## BXL (Jun 14, 2012)

Ellen Schmidtee said:


> Stone said:
> 
> 
> > I think this rumor is CR2 because it's pretty easy to assume 4 DSLRs from Canon this year.
> ...


Good point. I believe that we already know 3 of those rumored 4 DSLRs: 1D X, 5D III and 650D. The 70D will be released for sale around Photokina while a prototype of the high MP DSLR (1Ds IV ?) might be announced at Photokina for 2013. I don't see a 7D replacement too soon (maybe around Q3 2012).

And those rumored mirror less cameras are no DSLR, so don't count them... ;-)

BTW: I would also prefer the 60D over the 650D. 



hutjeflut said:


> on top of that the 650d is also about 270 euro more expencive at release then the 600d was so canon is going the wrong way with its pricing...



???

Sorry, but the 600D (Kit with the EF-S 18-55 mm IS II) was available for *849,- Euro* and the 650D (Kit with the EF-S 18-55 mm IS II) is available for *899,- Euro*. That's a difference of "only" 50,- Euro and NOT 270,- Euro.

http://www.canon.de/About_Us/Press_Centre/Press_Releases/Consumer_News/Cameras_Accessories/20110207_DSLR_EOS_600D.aspx
http://www.canon.de/About_Us/Press_Centre/Press_Releases/Consumer_News/Cameras_Accessories/Canon_unveils_new_EOS_650D.aspx



c.d.embrey said:


> BTW, Nikon has much more friendly prices on their mid-range lenses. Their 28mm f/1.8 costs less than the Canon 28mm f/2.8 fore instance.


The EF 28mm f/1.8 USM also costs less (545,- Euro) than the EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM (799,- Euro)... so what is your point?


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## candyman (Jun 14, 2012)

this is wishful thinking.... 8) 
I guess with the upcoming firmware, the MKII will not be one of the 4 DSLR's to be released/announced this year but shall be released/announced in 2013.


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## briansquibb (Jun 14, 2012)

dilbert said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?
> ...



My 'opinion' is a comparison of two real cameras - not vapourware of an event that might or might not happen somewhere in the future. Shame you have to keep putting down people for saying their opinion.

Do you really think the 18mps ff 1DX is a sucessor to a 21mps ff?


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jun 14, 2012)

candyman said:


> this is wishful thinking.... 8)
> I guess with the upcoming firmware, the MKII will not be one of the 4 DSLR's to be released/announced this year but shall be released/announced in 2013.



I could see a 7-C camera coming before a 7Dmk2.


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## unfocused (Jun 14, 2012)

Nikon Rumors is reporting that Nikon could release four new DSLRs before the end of the year. (Sound familiar?)
Likely candidates are a D400 (Equivalent to the 7DII); the D600 (Low-Cost Full Frame); the equivalent to the 60D/70D and an entry-level Rebel equivalent.

So, that would seem to make the four Canon DSLRs before the end of the year plausible. 

At least three of the rumored Nikon DSLRS are directly equivalent to existing or rumored Canon products (60D, 7D and mythical full frame entry level) I think Canon might be done with Rebels for the year, so it's possible that a fourth camera could be a 5DHD (High Definition). 

Of course, I was most heartened by the published D600 specifications and rumor that it could be released around Photokina. I don't see Canon allowing Nikon to have the flagship APS-C market to itself, so if the D600 materializes, I expect the 7DII to follow shortly thereafter.


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## Albi86 (Jun 14, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Nikon Rumors is reporting that Nikon could release four new DSLRs before the end of the year. (Sound familiar?)
> Likely candidates are a D400 (Equivalent to the 7DII); the D600 (Low-Cost Full Frame); the equivalent to the 60D/70D and an entry-level Rebel equivalent.



D400 and D600 seem to be almost sure by now. I expect them to be announced during the summer, and presented at the Photokina.

I don't know if there will be anything below the D3200 - whose price is likely to drop significantly. The other 2 missing APS-C by Nikon should be the D5200 and the D7100.


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## distant.star (Jun 14, 2012)

.
I don't necessarily agree. I usually give Brian's opinion a lot of cred. While he may not have the insider stuff a company exec does, he also doesn't have to shovel any BS at me. Seems like it evens out to me.

Like it is said, opinions are like tailbones -- everyone has one, and some of us show them off more than others.





dilbert said:


> And for what it's worth, your opinion on the positioning of the 1DX is a whole lot less valuable than any comment from a Canon exec.


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## Daniel Flather (Jun 14, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Okay Canon Rumors Guy, time to be straight up with folks.
> 
> I assume the CR2 portion of the rumor is that there will be up to four new DSLR bodies announced in 2012.



No, but we can CR3 that it's a CR2 rumor. Where is the ef 20mm f2.8L f1.8L??


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## EOS 5D Mk. III User Group (Jun 15, 2012)

For a T4i / 650D product-specific stream of sample videos, daily news and discussion:

Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/groups/t4i
Twitter: http://twitter.com/eosT4i
Facebook: http://focuspull.in/fbT4i


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## dlleno (Jun 15, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Well this is a quote from Canon's press release for the 1DX:
> "_As the new leader in Canon’s arsenal of professional DSLRs, the EOS-1D X will be a high-speed multimedia juggernaut replacing both the EOS-1Ds Mark III and EOS-1D Mark IV models in Canon’s lineup._"
> 
> Need any more be said?



one thing that could be said is that an official press release saying that an 18 replaces a 16 and a 21 doesn't necessarily change the opinions of, or how these respective cameras are viewed, by those who use them professionally. 

Another thing that could be said is that press releases like this are designed to sell products and to optimally frame the company's acheivements to date versus the compromises they have made. 

Still another thing that could be said is that the release is absent any meaningful reference to how Canons long standing tradition or legacy/whatever intends to address those distance constrained situations where getting more pixels on the image is paramount.


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## briansquibb (Jun 16, 2012)

I love it - I say what my 'opinion' is - and I get accused of stating it as fact

I ask a simple question and I get quoted the Canon marketing release - so obviously no opinion there then.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 16, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I love it - I say what my 'opinion' is - and I get accused of stating it as fact
> 
> I ask a simple question and I get quoted the Canon marketing release - so obviously no opinion there then.



dilbert, what's the deal? You don't know any more for fact that anyone else on this forum. Afterall, did you not notice the word "rumors" in the website title? I enjoy opinions personally. If you want just cold hard facts, you're in the wrong place.

Now what I'm really curious to see is the 1D body they mention. Or will it not be a 1D, maybe a 3D? Who knows.


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