# A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 19, 2012)

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<strong>Soon…


</strong>We should see the new Canon mirrorless next Monday, details are still being confirmed about specifications and all that.</p>
<p>Don’t expect anything too “retro” or “rangefinder-esque”, as this is going to be a mass market consumer electronics type of camera. It’ll be more Nikon 1 than Fuji X-Pro 1.</p>
<p>I will post more when I can, a lot of what’s going around is pretty contradictory. Canon seems to have done a good job plugging leaks. :)</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Dylan777 (Jul 19, 2012)

Welcome back Craig


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 19, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Details are still being confirmed?
> 
> What happened to posting specs and just updating them as time goes by?
> 
> More rumors, less news!



There is too much information that contradicts. Canon has done a bang up job of plugging some leaks. I have posted bits of information about it already.

This is going to be a pretty boring camera for the "photographer" I think.


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 19, 2012)

can´t wait until i know more.

maybe canon will get a bit money from me this year.... last chance.


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 19, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> There is too much information that contradicts. Canon has done a bang up job of plugging some leaks. I have posted bits of information about it already.
> 
> This is going to be a pretty boring camera for the "photographer" I think.



is there no new rumor about the viewfinder?


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## marekjoz (Jul 19, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Details are still being confirmed?
> ...



So interchangeable lenses are to be the only feature differing it from P&S line?


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## Flake (Jul 19, 2012)

It's to be hoped that it isn't too much like the Nikon V1, it's been a disaster! Last time I went to the camera shop they hated them few customers wanted them, but those who did often returned them. Never have I seen such a poor review on DPreview.

For me the look aren't as important as image quality, and auto focus speed. There are a few other things I would like but I'll wait & see.


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## Rocky (Jul 19, 2012)

Flake said:


> It's to be hoped that it isn't too much like the Nikon V1, it's been a disaster! Last time I went to the camera shop they hated them few customers wanted them, but those who did often returned them. Never have I seen such a poor review on DPreview.
> 
> For me the look aren't as important as image quality, and auto focus speed. There are a few other things I would like but I'll wait & see.


Well said. If it just another "me too" camera, I will look into the Panasonic LX-7.


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## AvTvM (Jul 19, 2012)

I find it pretty amazig that only 3 days before (expected) announcement date it is not even clear yet, whether that upcoming Canon EVIL is just a sorry G1X-type P&S with a lens mount or a sorry "full auto" EVIL with an APS-C sensor. 

Anyway, I know Canon is going to f*ck it up again.


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## waving_odd (Jul 19, 2012)

seta666 said:


> If it has APS-C sensor, flash hotshoe, cable shutter release socket, silent live view (best feature of canon cameras for macro photography) and comes with a EF adapter at launch I am in





marekjoz said:


> So interchangeable lenses are to be the only feature differing it from P&S line?



That feature (native interchangeability, with adapter or not, with EF lenses) alone is big enough for event/wedding photogs to get it as a backup camera for its light weight and compact size.


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## marekjoz (Jul 19, 2012)

waving_odd said:


> seta666 said:
> 
> 
> > If it has APS-C sensor, flash hotshoe, cable shutter release socket, silent live view (best feature of canon cameras for macro photography) and comes with a EF adapter at launch I am in
> ...



Unless you're limited to green zone only....


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## mb66energy (Jul 19, 2012)

If that camera is a 650D without mirrorbox but with basically the same features and a shorter flange distance (to adapt odd optics incl. older FD lenses) for the same price with an adapter included (optimim: a 20mm extension tube which can be used with other cameras for macro) - why not? I need an intelligent lens cap for my shorty forty and an APS-C video camera ...


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## traveller (Jul 19, 2012)

I can't help thinking that Canon really need to make a 'splash' with a really impressively specified enthusiast camera like the NEX 7 or X Pro1, then follow it up with a cheaper mass market model to cash in on the hype. Part of the reason that I expect that isn't happening is because I think that Canon have a new sensor that they want to debut at Photokina in an enthusiast DSLR.


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## lol (Jul 19, 2012)

I don't think it matters much what they release now. Just to get some future posts out of the way...

That body is too big or small.
The sensor is too big or small.
The MP count is too many or few.
The kit zoom lens is too big or slow.
The prime(s) are too big and/or slow.
The AF is too slow.
It costs too much!


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## mws (Jul 19, 2012)

lol said:


> I don't think it matters much what they release now. Just to get some future posts out of the way...
> 
> 
> It costs too much!



With the kind of stuff people complain about on here, I'm sure someone will say it coast to little!


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## jebrady03 (Jul 19, 2012)

lol said:


> I don't think it matters much what they release now. Just to get some future posts out of the way...
> 
> That body is too big or small.
> The sensor is too big or small.
> ...



AWESOME post! But, you neglected to mention that although they're future posts, they won't be TOO far in the future. All of those posts will take place PRIOR to any of the people posting them actually getting their hands on one and the system through the proper paces. Posts like that are all vaguely reminiscent of an old saying about judging, books, and covers...


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## marekjoz (Jul 19, 2012)

lol said:


> I don't think it matters much what they release now. Just to get some future posts out of the way...
> 
> That body is too big or small.
> The sensor is too big or small.
> ...



You forgot some sensor performance comparison from DxO....


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## lol (Jul 19, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> You forgot some sensor performance comparison from DxO....


I did say *some*, not all


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## marekjoz (Jul 19, 2012)

lol said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > You forgot *some *sensor performance comparison from DxO....
> ...



So did I ;D ;D


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## cathpah (Jul 19, 2012)

Too bad. I'd vastly prefer it to have retro styling. I know it shouldn't matter (I could care less what my professional bodies look like), but it'd certainly make it more fun/unique.


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## Caps18 (Jul 19, 2012)

It will be interesting, I hope they either get it right or will sell enough to come out with future models. It is a very hard thing to get right. It has to be thin, have good battery life, a big sensor, good fast lenses... But it will have less functionality than a G1X (no IS or zoom, and now dust problems) And I would have to worry about security guards at events preventing me from bringing in a camera with a removable lens...

I would think the 50 f/1.8 would be a good lens for this from a size/weight/speed point of view. 

Quite frankly, I would rather see them improve the G1X line to include a f/2 lens (while making it smaller/thinner in other parts). I already know that if I am going to use my EF lenses, I will bring the 5Dm2 with me.


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## zim (Jul 19, 2012)

Welcome back CR Guy, ‘above and beyond the call’ if you ask me. Anyway I think you’ve posted the really important thing here and your not talking it up. Lots of disappointment in the offing. It’s not going to be a trad rangefinder design happy days for Leica/ Fuji et al though. Guess you have to respect Canon market research though I suspect they are right.


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## RLPhoto (Jul 19, 2012)

Just give me a aps-c sensor and a fast 35mm or 50mm prime. Its all I'll ever need from a mirror-less camera and possibly a EF lens adapter.


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## SpaceGhost (Jul 19, 2012)

I would want a true canon competitor to the NEX line, specifically the NEX-7. The lens selection on the NEX is what is holding me back. Of course if Canon released a series of cameras for teh different niches like Sony did, that would be awesome (NEX-3, NEX-5, NEX-7, etc.)

Bottom line, if Canon makes a more pro mirrorless body, with an EF adapter option, and a decent selection of compact/small/pancake lenses, I'm all in
M


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## infared (Jul 19, 2012)

sanj said:


> I do not find the Fuji X100 useless. Just the opposite.


Canon could have come into the mirrorless fray at the end and swept everyone off their feet....but from what I am reading this "big" mirrorless release is going to be a real yawner. In one word: Mediocre. (and then everything that lol said!)


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 19, 2012)

well at least it´s no m43 sized sensor. 

i was never happy with my e-pl1 and the gf3.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 19, 2012)

Flake said:


> It's to be hoped that it isn't too much like the Nikon V1, it's been a disaster! Last time I went to the camera shop they hated them few customers wanted them, but those who did often returned them. Never have I seen such a poor review on DPreview.
> 
> For me the look aren't as important as image quality, and auto focus speed. There are a few other things I would like but I'll wait & see.


They appeared in discount stores like Costco only a few weeks after hitting the market, and Nikon Sr Managers are very defensive when asked about them. There must be a reason.


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## MaddScientiskt (Jul 19, 2012)

lol said:


> I don't think it matters much what they release now. Just to get some future posts out of the way...
> 
> That body is too big or small.
> The sensor is too big or small.
> ...



;D Nice Post, another one would be "It's not good as a 5D Mark III....or even a Mark IV for that matter " LOL geez.....
O yea "It's tooooo much noise at ISO 100"


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## Gman (Jul 19, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> well at least it´s no m43 sized sensor.
> 
> ...



I wonder how you can say that when we don't even know the specs yet?

I handled an OMD EM5 today and sat the body next to my old G11 and have to say that with just a pancake lens I think I might have gone for it, it's actually smaller than a G11 but the size of the kit zoom just lets it's down -plus of course the body plus a pancake lens are going to cost 3x a G12!

What if Canon's entry into the mirrorless zone blows away the Oly m43? Will I be tempted* or still hang on for a G14 at Photokina?

*I hear the menu system on the OMD is a nightmare!


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## jrista (Jul 19, 2012)

While I'm a fan of the DSLR, I'm very interested in seeing what Canon does with their first mirrorless entry. Based on the previous rumors here, it will be more consumer grade than professional grade, so I don't expect it to have all the frills that the upper end Nikon and Sony mirrorless entries do.

It will be interesting to see how competitive Canon actually gets though...might be telling about the future of Canon DSLR in this more competitive and rapidly advancing market. Will they use FPPD-AF, or a form of FPPD+CD AF (like they demonstrated with the 650D)? How many AF points? What kind of sensor...APS-C sized? Backlit? Large pixels or small pixels? EVF, and what kind of functionality? It'll be interesting, good or bad, to see what Canon releases. I really hope its very competitive, but I expect it to be rather middle ground...neither "sucky" nor "great".


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 19, 2012)

Gman said:


> Canon-F1 said:
> 
> 
> > well at least it´s no m43 sized sensor.
> ...



do you read the same website?
you did not notice that all rumors point to an aps-c sensor?


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## Daniel Flather (Jul 19, 2012)

It's officially unconfirmed!


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## RLPhoto (Jul 19, 2012)

Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?


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## marekjoz (Jul 19, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?



Isn't the Sony's "Exmor R" a back illuminated sensor?


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## traveller (Jul 19, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?
> ...



Yes, but it isn't made in APS-C or FF size.


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## marekjoz (Jul 19, 2012)

traveller said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



You're right. Then it might be Canon in their labs: http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/patent-large-back-illuminated-sensor/


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## RLPhoto (Jul 20, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > marekjoz said:
> ...



Interesting, now we know what the next 5D4 and 1Dx2 sensors will use this tech. 8)

Prepare for a usable 102,400 ISO. Which if your read that number out-loud, is a joke from a person coming from film.


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## jrista (Jul 20, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?



If it was a REALLY high density sensor, where pixel pitch was under 2 microns, it would probably be required to use a backilluminated design. If we are talking in the realm of 16-18mp in APS-C size, the improvement to QE (which would help ISO performance) wouldn't be particularly massive...but it would make the sensor very competitive. Especially if its also an FPPD-AF sensor.


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## Ryan708 (Jul 20, 2012)

Low light shoting gets me pretty horned up. Im quite jealous of the 1dx images i have seen already. I say quit the war to make MORE megapixels and make BETTER pixels! If bestbuy could advertise ISO noise and dynamic range as well as they advertise MEGAPIXELS we would probably end up with better gear down the line. well, in my price range. canon has plenty of gear out of my range


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## alfeel (Jul 20, 2012)

I hope the pack it with some serious fast primes (f/1.4, I doubt they will use faster lenses) rather than "consumer-grade" zoom. I'm waiting 'till monday hoping in a nice announcement otherwise I think I'll go to fuji for my "always-with-me" camera..







btw here it's a graph found on dpreview.com of the chroma noise of some cameras, including the X-Pro1 and the 5D mark III the fuji beat out the cr*p of all these camera according to chroma noise (it wins also with the other two kind of noise btw but not with such a large margin).
I think other manufacturer should try to implement smth like fuji did with this sensor! too bad the autofocus is not top notch, otherwise the X-Pro1 would have been an hell of a camera!


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## jrista (Jul 20, 2012)

Ryan708 said:


> Low light shoting gets me pretty horned up. Im quite jealous of the 1dx images i have seen already. I say quit the war to make MORE megapixels and make BETTER pixels! If bestbuy could advertise ISO noise and dynamic range as well as they advertise MEGAPIXELS we would probably end up with better gear down the line. well, in my price range. canon has plenty of gear out of my range



Have you not seen the D800 with its stupendous Sony Exmor sensor? I would say that sensor debunks the whole megapixel myth that more megapixels is a waste of time and we should make "better" pixels...the D800 IS BETTER PIXELS, and more of then! It performs excellently at high ISO, and is the highest density FF sensor by a long shot. From an IQ standpoint, while it may not reach a native ISO 51200, it captures a far finer degree of detail than the 1D X is even remotely capable of, offering some two stops greater DR, and it does so with minimal noise. Sony didn't have to use any cheats like Canon did, either...no weakening of the CFA and killing off native color fidelity or anything like that. 

Sony has proven more pixels with better quality IS possible, so why should we stop pushing for both? I want 47mp FF with 13 stops of DR and slightly better noise characteristics than the 7D.


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## wickidwombat (Jul 20, 2012)

alfeel said:


> I hope the pack it with some serious fast primes (f/1.4, I doubt they will use faster lenses) rather than "consumer-grade" zoom. I'm waiting 'till monday hoping in a nice announcement otherwise I think I'll go to fuji for my "always-with-me" camera..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i just got my fuji x10 back from having the sensor replaced after an epic fight with them
and its even worse now the on off is flakey and at iso 100 DR400 and M mode the noise looks more like iso 6400

gonna have to take it back next week AGAIN

I dont think i'll buy anything from FUJI again in a hurry i dont care how good it looks on paper or a graph


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## weixing (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi,
May be it'll be a interchangeable lens version of G1x with 650D APS-C sensor... 

Have a nice day.


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## Danack (Jul 20, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?



No. It doesn't make sense from a cost-benefit viewpoint.

The reason that rear illuminated sensors are good for tiny sensors is that each pixel that needs to be read requires a certain amount of space for the 'wire' to read the signal from that pixel. The space taken up by the wires used to read the pixel cannot be used to capture light.

(Almost) The same amount of space is required per pixel regardless of what the sensor size is.

So on a tiny little 1/2.3" sensor changing to rear illuminated means that there could be 50% space for capturing photons. On a 1.6 crop or full frame sensors, the space taken up by the 'wires' is really small compared to the area used to capture light, so you could maybe get 5% more space for capturing photons by switching to a rear-illuminated sensor.

Because they're harder to make (which translates to more expensive to manufacture and higher defect rate) there's no point getting a 5% increase in light capturing on a large sensor, whereas getting 50% more light in tiny sensors does make sense.


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## mustafa (Jul 20, 2012)

I just pray that it comes in a nice range of colours.


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 20, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> This is going to be a pretty boring camera for the "photographer" I think.



I think it depends upon your definition of *"photographer."* ???

Brad Mangin is having 18 iPhone Instagram photos published in Sports Illustrated http://manginphotography.net/2012/07/how-i-made-instagram-images-that-were-good-enough-for-sports-illustrated/ So the question is, is Brad Mangin a "photographer" ???

My guess is that "photographers" will buy them and "hobbyists" won't


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## Mr.Pink (Jul 20, 2012)

Here is leaked photos of Canon mirrorless 






EF-M mount,22mm STM lens


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 20, 2012)

Mr.Pink said:


> Here is leaked photos of Canon mirrorless
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been waiting for a long time for an EF-S 22mm lens  Now I have a good reason to go mirrorless  

If this was only true


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## wickidwombat (Jul 20, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Mr.Pink said:
> 
> 
> > Here is leaked photos of Canon mirrorless
> ...



its EF-M and the 43 dia notation indicate the sensor would be a 2x crop not a 1.6 aps-c


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## DarkKnightNine (Jul 20, 2012)

Flake said:


> It's to be hoped that it isn't too much like the Nikon V1, it's been a disaster! Last time I went to the camera shop they hated them few customers wanted them, but those who did often returned them. Never have I seen such a poor review on DPreview.
> 
> For me the look aren't as important as image quality, and auto focus speed. There are a few other things I would like but I'll wait & see.




Exactly. It would blatantly stupid for Canon to release something similar to a product that was a huge failure and would prove (at lease to me) that someone isn't paying attention to the market and/or their customer's desires.


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## eosbit (Jul 20, 2012)

Rocky said:


> Mr.Pink said:
> 
> 
> > Here is leaked photos of Canon mirrorless
> ...



Err.. the outer diameter (filter size) is only 43mm. It says so. Nowhere near 80mm This is a lot smaller than an EF lens.


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## absolutic (Jul 20, 2012)

*Canonrumors is always the last*

The picture is all over the internet on every site, from photo rumors to nikon rumors, and only canon rumors is last as usual.


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## Rukes (Jul 20, 2012)

Rocky said:


> I think some one created the picture. I do not believe it is the real thing.



Are you being serious? You REALLY think looking at that photo, that someone created that with CG or something? Wow...


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## mb66energy (Jul 20, 2012)

eosbit said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Pink said:
> ...



I agree with eosbit, that the lens mount seems to be a standard EF-mount in terms of size. 43mm lens thread and 2.0/22mm (resulting in 11mm aperture diameter) are too consistent on the picture. The flash shoe too has consistent size - it seems to be large compared to the camera meaning, the camera is SMALL and the lens has "normal" size.

In the case of a mirrorless there is no need for a retrofocus solution - you have the freedom to place the last lens element near the sensor. This is too consistent.

The sensor size: I guess it is an APS-C sensor: 22mm x 1.6 = 35.2 .... the classical compact camera focal length. So at lest this is a little bit retro in terms of numbers!

From the picture (if it is really from Canon) I see that an EF/EF-S adaptor might be just an extension tube which we can use for macro with a (D)SLR - would be very symphatic!

EDIT:
Further guesses:
- AF assist lamp and IR receiver
- a few direct controls and the rest via a large touchscreen.
- mediocre battery life due to the tiny body
- builtin stereo microphone on top near EOS M signature

Just my 2 ct.- Best, Michael


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## Violettpunkt (Jul 20, 2012)

Mr.Pink said:


> Here is leaked photos of Canon mirrorless
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And it's called, EOS A1 !!


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## pakosouthpark (Jul 20, 2012)

maaan why can't canon come out with something new that will blow everyones mind?? i mean they are the leader brand on cameras!! they are just doing what other brands already did!


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## mb66energy (Jul 20, 2012)

Violettpunkt said:


> Mr.Pink said:
> 
> 
> > Here is leaked photos of Canon mirrorless
> ...



I read EOS M - but my first thougt was yours. EOS M makes sense in combination with EF-M whith M for mirrorless.


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## Nassen0f (Jul 20, 2012)

Violettpunkt said:


> Mr.Pink said:
> 
> 
> > Here is leaked photos of Canon mirrorless
> ...



Thankfully it says Eos M on top...


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## Violettpunkt (Jul 20, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> maaan why can't canon come out with something new that will blow everyones mind?? i mean they are the leader brand on cameras!! they are just doing what other brands already did!


These so-called "leaders" always wait for another so-called "leader" to make a move, and they will wait and see and then pushing out something similar. What we as customer can hope for is... They at least refine and learn from the mistakes of another brands..



mb66energy said:


> Violettpunkt said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Pink said:
> ...


There are Nikon V1 and J1. That's the point 

btw +1, though M can be anything but if it is Mirrorless, that is lame..


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## eosbit (Jul 20, 2012)

The lens also reads "Macro 0.15m/0.49ft" on the side


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 20, 2012)

no viewfinder at all?? 

is this camera aimed at mobile phone user or photographer?
so canon is not getting any money from me this year...... 

i need a viewfinder. 
not one LCD i have seen so far does a good job in bright daylight.
hell they are totally useless on a sunny day, or not?
im always searching some shadowed area to chimp or have an look at the histogram.


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## mb66energy (Jul 20, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> no viewfinder at all??
> 
> it this camera aimed at mobile phone user or photographer?
> so canon is not getting any money from me this year......



You have the hot shoe to put an optical viewfinder on the camera ... just kidding. Do you think a viewfinder is absolutely necessary if you have a good display? I used a second hand Rolleicord and I found it phantastic to see the image with some distance - like a small print.

About the optical viewfinder: Not only kidding - I have a 35/70mm optical viewfinder and used it on my 20D (with a 8000x gray filter) and for fun. It is an interesting way to "compose" images. Just have to find out where I have stowed it away.


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 20, 2012)

mb66energy said:


> Canon-F1 said:
> 
> 
> > no viewfinder at all??
> ...




yes for me the lack of a viewfinder is an absolute deal breaker.

you should think canon as the market leader comes up with something like fuji or olympus.
but not another lame big sensor point and shoot.

no matter what fancy features are in this camera... for me it´s a letdown. 
that´s not what i have waited for.

electronic viewfinders still suck in some departments (dynamic range for example).
but even a mediocre viewfinder is better then none. 
i had hoped for an viewfinder like the one in the sony nex-7... it´s pretty good.

now let´s wait and see what the professionell model will look like...




> Rolleicord



imho that´s completely different to an LCD.
i have an old hasselblad and mamiya c220 and yes.. it´s better viewable in daylight.


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## marekjoz (Jul 20, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> no viewfinder at all??
> 
> is this camera aimed at mobile phone user or photographer?
> so canon is not getting any money from me this year......
> ...



There might be an optional accessory - electronic viewfinder to be offered


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 20, 2012)

maybe there is still hope that it is a pretty good hoax...


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 20, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> There might be an optional accessory - electronic viewfinder to be offered



maybe.. another 200 euro then.
but to be honest i don´t have much hope that this is the case.


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## RLPhoto (Jul 20, 2012)

I like the design. Quite simple and minimalist. Just a aps-c sensor and a fast 35mm FOV lens. Done. Now what's the price tag going to be?


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## Canon-F1 (Jul 20, 2012)

what i don´t get.. if i look at the hotshoe (~2cm) and compare it to the lens. 
the lens seems a bit big .. not?

it looks like an EF mount in size.


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## marekjoz (Jul 20, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I like the design. Quite simple and minimalist. Just a aps-c sensor and a fast 35mm FOV lens. Done. Now what's the price tag going to be?



I also find it quite cute and small.


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## mb66energy (Jul 20, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> what i don´t get.. if i look at the hotshoe (~2cm) and compare it to the lens.
> the lens seems a bit big .. not?
> 
> it looks like an EF mount in size.



Hopefully it is an EF mount and the EF(-S)-adapter is just an extension tube which can be used otherwise and keeps prices down (hopefully).

Your remark about Rolleicord/Hasselblad viewfinders: You are right, they have an "automatic brightness control" by design, but on the Rolleicord I needed the collapsible shades and loupe very often in bright light. Would be funny to add this to the EOS M ...


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## moreorless (Jul 20, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> no viewfinder at all??
> 
> *is this camera aimed at mobile phone user * or photographer?
> so canon is not getting any money from me this year......
> ...



I think thats exactly who its aimed at, marketing will always hype these cameras as "an alternative to a DSLR" simpley because it makes them sound like a higher end product but the majority of the market is I'd say people who would otherwise be using a compact or a phone in a given situation.

There have been a few rumours of another higher end mirrorless latter in the year and I'd guess that will be aimed more at photographers with an EVF and more manual controls.


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## marekjoz (Jul 20, 2012)

moreorless said:


> Canon-F1 said:
> 
> 
> > no viewfinder at all??
> ...



Each mirrorless camera is also a possibility to sell another EF lens. It might be a smooth way for enthusiasts to walk from P&S to DSLR.


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## maxxevv (Jul 20, 2012)

mb66energy said:


> About the optical viewfinder: Not only kidding - I have a 35/70mm optical viewfinder and used it on my 20D (with a 8000x gray filter) and for fun. It is an interesting way to "compose" images. Just have to find out where I have stowed it away.



If you die-die must have a viewfinder, there are ready made solutions on the market for those who have used it for video:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Retail-270-VARAVON-Optical-Viewfinder-Loupe-UNI-for-universal-DSLR-/230757836847?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item35ba3d282f


There are of course cheaper versions as well as more expensive ones depending on your preference. In fact, for fine focusing of larger aperture manual lenses, using this in conjunction with liveView beats any focusing screen.


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## marekjoz (Jul 20, 2012)

maxxevv said:


> mb66energy said:
> 
> 
> > About the optical viewfinder: Not only kidding - I have a 35/70mm optical viewfinder and used it on my 20D (with a 8000x gray filter) and for fun. It is an interesting way to "compose" images. Just have to find out where I have stowed it away.
> ...



I have a similar thing and have to say, that it's quite a good solution. The main problem with it is, that it becomes dimmed by water vapour very quickly. It's almost impossible to use it outdoor in winter and because of steam becomes useless much quicker than the viewfinder.


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## alfeel (Jul 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I just got my fuji x10 back from having the sensor replaced after an epic fight with them
> and its even worse now the on off is flakey and at iso 100 DR400 and M mode the noise looks more like iso 6400
> 
> gonna have to take it back next week AGAIN
> ...



correct me if i'm wrong but with dr400, you can't set the iso to the value of 100.. so, I don't know what ur talking about  btw, I don't know the x10, but the x-pro1 is at par with my 5DII (except for the fast lenses)


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## jrista (Jul 20, 2012)

eosbit said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Pink said:
> ...



Thats not the outer diameter, thats the filter thread size, which is the inner diameter of the depressed area around the front lens element. The filter thread size has nothing to do with the lens mount size, and therefor has nothing to do with the size of the sensor. I have a hard time believing they would call the lens EF-M, and not use the same bayonet mount as all other EF based lenses. 

BTW, the EF bayonet mount itself is 54mm in diameter, not 80mm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_mount


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