# Features seen in the past and absent today



## nicku (Sep 1, 2014)

I wonder why canon packed older cameras with some very useful features that are totally absent in modern cameras. Here I refer to the Canon EOS 1D released in 2001 vs modern professional canon cameras.

I refer strictly to:

1/16,000 shutter speed
X-sync speed 1/500


----------



## climber (Sep 1, 2014)

+ Eye-controlled Auto-Focus

Don't know how useful was that, but probably with today technology it could be even more sophisticated.


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 1, 2014)

nicku said:


> I wonder why canon packed older cameras with some very useful features that are totally absent in modern cameras. Here I refer to the Canon EOS 1D released in 2001 vs modern professional canon cameras.
> 
> I refer strictly to:
> 
> ...



I would think its to do with it being APS, smaller, lighter shutter, less distance to travel etc. Not on modern pro APS now due to cost / usage considerations I would think.


----------



## rs (Sep 1, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> nicku said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder why canon packed older cameras with some very useful features that are totally absent in modern cameras. Here I refer to the Canon EOS 1D released in 2001 vs modern professional canon cameras.
> ...


The 1D was an APS-H body with an electronic shutter.


----------



## wickidwombat (Sep 1, 2014)

3x video cropping zoom on 600D which since disappeared although my EOS-M box had the ikon for it on but a white sticker over the icon


----------



## nicku (Sep 1, 2014)

rs said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > nicku said:
> ...



Being an APS-H sensor is not the case. 1d2 , 1d3 , 1d4 are APS-H... and no similar features


----------



## DigiAngel (Sep 1, 2014)

there was a red eye reduction on my old canon 20D, which worked perfectly with the speedlite 420EX.

that very usefull function was gone from the 5D2 onwards, i wonder why.


----------



## tayassu (Sep 1, 2014)

climber said:


> + Eye-controlled Auto-Focus
> 
> Don't know how useful was that, but probably with today technology it could be even more sophisticated.



I loved that, tried it out on the EOS 50E, it was great. It only appeared in like 3 bodys, I believe it was too expensive... :-\


----------



## Sporgon (Sep 1, 2014)

rs said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > nicku said:
> ...



Quick bit of research; also used CCD rather than CMOS which allowed the use of an electronic shutter. So as CMOS replaced CDD those features were lost.


----------



## rs (Sep 1, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> rs said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...


Yeah, Nikon had some CCD cameras with fast sync speeds, such as the 1/500th D40.


----------



## suburbia (Sep 1, 2014)

tayassu said:


> climber said:
> 
> 
> > + Eye-controlled Auto-Focus
> ...



Yes i loved it both on my 50E and EOS 3. I feel my compositions were much better then as often you don't get a chance to move the focus point or doing the traditional focus then recompose. 

Eye controlled focus always appears in Canon questionaires about desired future feature sets


----------



## Tanispyre (Sep 1, 2014)

I love the eye control focus on my Elan 7E, sure it only has 7 focus points, but after calibration it was very accurate for me. I still use it as my primary film camera. Some of the newer cameras ability to select groups of focus points I think would match very well with eye control focus.


----------



## Busted Knuckles (Sep 1, 2014)

What about the "the wave" shutter. using the proximity sensor on the t2i to trigger the shutter

how about a proximity sensor at all :0 

internal vf shutter to block light from the optical view finder

Sensor zoom in movie mode - jumping from full frame to just 1920x1080 pixels

There are tons of features magic lantern that Canon should bake into its firmware


----------



## mb66energy (Sep 1, 2014)

Dedicated aperture ring on lens (or body*)
Dedicated exp. time and ISO on body

... on a Canon EF or/and EF-M body

*really liked the idea in S95 and would like to see it on ALL Canon cameras.


----------



## Hannes (Sep 3, 2014)

Busted Knuckles said:


> What about the "the wave" shutter. using the proximity sensor on the t2i to trigger the shutter
> 
> how about a proximity sensor at all :0
> 
> ...



The vf shutter Is alive and kicking but only on 1 series bodies


----------



## lo lite (Sep 3, 2014)

nicku said:


> I wonder why canon packed older cameras with some very useful features that are totally absent in modern cameras. Here I refer to the Canon EOS 1D released in 2001 vs modern professional canon cameras.
> 
> I refer strictly to:
> 
> ...



I wonder why they left out the DEP mode on the recent cameras. Not that I used it that often when I was still using my EOS 33 but it was convenient to have from time to time.

For those who don't know what I am talking about:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dep.shtml
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3193312


----------



## AvTvM (Sep 3, 2014)

ranked in order of usefulness/desirability to me:

* Exe Control AF -> v2 ... improved to today's standards ... in conjunction with a top notch AF-system and a class-leading EVF on a FF mirrorless cam ... would be willing to pay up to $/€ 500 extra for this feature 

* 1/500 or shorter X-sync ... implemented by means of a fully electronic shutter ... would only pay a little extra for it, since it is cheaper than mech shutter unit

* freely assignable Multi-Function ring around mount base on camera body ... default = aperture setting. As in Powershot S95/100 etc. Would be willing to pay up to €/$ 50 extra, since a hardware change is involved. 

* Fully functional Auto-ISO including EV +/- compensation in "M" ... in any Canon EOS. I'd be willing to pay up to €/$ 25 extra, since no research / only a minor firmware change is needed

* A-DEP mode -> automatic depth of field. I would want the 3-step method [as implemented e.g. in EOS 3], not the latter 1-step procedure [as e.g. in 40D, 50D]. I'd be willing to pay up to 25 €/$ extra for that feature, since it reuqires a minor firmware change only. http://www.vad1.com/photo/autodof.html

* Focus trap -> automatic shutter release, as soon a moving object gets into [pre-set] focus. To my knowledge, this feature was never implemented in a Canon EOS - but on some/many Nikon DSLRs. I'd be willing to pay up to 25 €/$ extra since it requires only a minor firmware change only.

... lots of money to be made for Canon, if they build me a body with the desired features. Or even better ... Canon could leave out all video recording capability/features [except live view feed] on my camera and give me the above listed features instead, at no extra charge. 8)


----------



## mackguyver (Sep 3, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> ranked in order of usefulness/desirability to me:
> 
> * Exe Control AF -> v2 ... improved to today's standards ... in conjunction with a top notch AF-system and a class-leading EVF on a FF mirrorless cam ... would be willing to pay up to $/€ 500 extra for this feature
> 
> ...


I think a faster sync would be nice, but short of leaf shutters & CMOS, not too practical. A shutter of 1/16,000 would be nice, too, but short of using f/1.2 lenses wide open in the sun, 1/8000 is usually enough, but it would be nice to avoid ND filters for that kind of work. The A-DEP mode seems pointless to me and I always found that it would almost always choose between f/11 and f/22 no matter the subject. 

Fully functional Auto-ISO including EV +/- compensation in "M" is awesome on the 1D X and probably one of my favorite and most used features. Canon definitely needs to roll this out to the other models.

The other thing I'd love is a 1D model in standard size, like the 1V. I like the built in grip of the 1D__ but it would be nice to have a choice. All of the little things that the 1D series offers over the 5D series (like tougher build, af-pt linked spot, multi-pt spot, viewfinder shutter, etc.) would be great to have in a smaller body as well.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 3, 2014)

climber said:


> + Eye-controlled Auto-Focus
> 
> Don't know how useful was that, but probably with today technology it could be even more sophisticated.



It was nice on my Canon A2E and I was rather impressed at how well it worked. But then the A2E had only 5 focus points. 

But perhaps Canon could looking to controlling something else other than focus with the same (upgraded) technology?


----------



## Tanispyre (Sep 7, 2014)

Another feature that I think was better implemented in the past is the depth of field mode. On my old film camera, to use the auto depth of field mode, you focused on your first point, then focused on a second point, the the camera automatically set both the focus distance and the aperture to get both points in focus. It worked really well, and I never really had problems with it. The newest implementation just tries to get every point under a focus point in focus and it rarely gives the perspective I want.


----------



## Jim Saunders (Sep 7, 2014)

Eye-tracking AF. You can't tell me all the pieces aren't there waiting to be integrated.

Jim


----------



## Dylan777 (Sep 7, 2014)

Jim Saunders said:


> Eye-tracking AF. You can't tell me all the pieces aren't there waiting to be integrated.
> 
> Jim


+1....I'm currently own a7r. It has eye-focus feature. Very POWERFUL tool to shoot portrait with large aperture lenses at wide open. Couldn't miss a single shot with Zeiss 55mm at wide open.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Sep 7, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> rs said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



D810 has electronic front curtain shutter. I don't know how that differs from the D40 though, since the D810 still has an x-sync speed of 1/250.


----------



## dgatwood (Sep 7, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> Quick bit of research; also used CCD rather than CMOS which allowed the use of an electronic shutter. So as CMOS replaced CDD those features were lost.



Yeah, interline transfer CCDs have some nice advantages. With microlensing, they could probably do something similar on CMOS. With that said, they could probably do it a lot better these days by using double-sided silicon with vias and putting that extra buffer storage on the other side of the chip. This would probably require some different mounting hardware to avoid overheating, and possibly even on-chip peltier cooling, but I'm pretty sure it's doable with current chip fabrication technology.


----------



## K-amps (Sep 7, 2014)

Sporgon said:


> rs said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



What advantages do CMOS have over CCD (I know cost). but why would a fractional cost be an issue for a $5000+ body?


----------



## davidcl0nel (Sep 7, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Fully functional Auto-ISO including EV +/- compensation in "M" is awesome on the 1D X and probably one of my favorite and most used features. Canon definitely needs to roll this out to the other models.



Its propably easy, because its only software limits... so they should implement this _completely_.
I am not familiar with the current change of the 1DX (i "only" use a 5D3), but this feature has to be lens-specific.
If I use my 35 IS - and want to take a night snapshot of the street i don't want to use ISO6400 (yes i can!), i want to use up to 1/4sec and my aperture of 5.6 or f/8 - and then the auto iso can increase to ISO800. Thats often enough, because the stabilizer do a wonderful job. But if I use an other lens, this wouldn't be as powerful of course. And if I want to photograph a person, I cant use 1/4 of course - so I need easy to switch 2 modes of every lens - where I can set up the min and max values, I want.
If not, I stay with AV mode, and setup the ISO manually...


----------



## Hillsilly (Sep 7, 2014)

Those big, black fabric capes that you see on the back of older view cameras would be quite handy to view camera LCDs when in bright sunlight.

Also, an ISO of 6 would be great for taking long exposures.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 7, 2014)

One feature I don't miss is the lube decomposing and getting into apertures. Newer cameras use a much more stable lubricant that rarely breaks down.


----------



## Jim Saunders (Sep 7, 2014)

Hillsilly said:


> Those big, black fabric capes that you see on the back of older view cameras would be quite handy to view camera LCDs when in bright sunlight.
> 
> Also, an ISO of 6 would be great for taking long exposures.



Hoodies meant to go over hard hats have oversize hoods; I'll check mine when I get home.

Jim


----------



## pwp (Sep 8, 2014)

I had never had the chance to check out eye tracking AF but those who have used it paint a universally rosy picture. If it's simply a cost issue at the production end, I'd be happy to stretch the Visa card further and tick the box for this intriguing feature.

A feature I'm not sad to see the end of is the small capacity image storage technology that could only hold 10 images. I'm talking about the rolls of 120 film I loaded endlessly into the Mamiya RZ67. Once I watched a doco following Annie Liebovitz shooting a Vanity Fair cover shot on Mamiya RZ67. She had about twenty loaded film backs plus an assistant whose only job it was to keeping loading fresh film. Fast forward to 2014. A 64Gb card in a 5D3 delivers around 1000 RAW files. Annie's assistant is out of a job!

As a minor digression, I recently loaded up a drummed-scanned image (Fujichrome Velvia) shot on the RZ67 which I used to think was the absolute ultimate in quality. Honestly, I was getting better files from my old 5D Classic. Perhaps even my old 20D. We really have come a long way in a stunningly short time.

The good old days? The now mythical Kodak Moment? Yeah right....Show me tomorrow!

-pw


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2014)

Stock focusing screens with split prism and microprism collar. I don't know that I'd really need/want one today, but I do sort of miss them.


----------



## Tyroop (Sep 8, 2014)

I liked the way I could put my T90 into spot metering mode, take several meter readings from different parts of the scene with a dedicated button, and the camera would then automatically average out all the meter readings to set the exposure.

Maybe this feature exists in current Canon pro-level cameras, but it hasn't been a feature in the prosumer digital bodies I have owned.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2014)

Tyroop said:


> I liked the way I could put my T90 into spot metering mode, take several meter readings from different parts of the scene with a dedicated button, and the camera would then automatically average out all the meter readings to set the exposure.
> 
> Maybe this feature exists in current Canon pro-level cameras, but it hasn't been a feature in the prosumer digital bodies I have owned.



Yes, the 1-series bodies have that feature. It's called multispot metering, you can average up to eight separate spot meter readings.


----------



## risc32 (Sep 8, 2014)

hush your mouth PWP! i had a 30d, xti, and still use a 5d and 5dmk3. i have shot a good deal of 120-220, 135, and some 4x5 slides, and your statement does not align with me one bit. If one was to even take a quick peek at a slide on a light table or even just held up to a light source i can't see how you would be so willing to throw film under the bus. scans, i have no idea. i don't know nuthin' about no scanning. i'm not even going to speculate. so, do you have a Mamiya that you don't need anymore ;D
now i'm going to say damn right PWP! eye focus! give it to me!! I bet if they came out with it now, most consumers would think that it's the newest thing and would marvel at it. i'd much rather have eye focus on a digital body due to the fact that if it wasn't 100% i would just over shoot to compensate. no big deal as PWP just pointed out, we have memory card space.
no really, so you looking for a caregiver for that mamiya?


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 8, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tyroop said:
> 
> 
> > I liked the way I could put my T90 into spot metering mode, take several meter readings from different parts of the scene with a dedicated button, and the camera would then automatically average out all the meter readings to set the exposure.
> ...



They also have a little known and used flash exposure meter.


----------



## rpt (Sep 8, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Stock focusing screens with split prism and microprism collar. I don't know that I'd really need/want one today, but I do sort of miss them.


+1

My favourite gripe


----------



## Tyroop (Sep 8, 2014)

> Yes, the 1-series bodies have that feature. It's called multispot metering, you can average up to eight separate spot meter readings.



Thanks for that, Neuro. I often wondered whether this feature still existed as I used to use it quite a lot in film days. It's a long time ago now, but I think the T90 could also average up to eight meter readings. It was a very advanced camera for its day and handled really well too.


----------



## pwp (Sep 8, 2014)

risc32 said:


> hush your mouth PWP! i had a 30d, xti, and still use a 5d and 5dmk3. i have shot a good deal of 120-220, 135, and some 4x5 slides, and your statement does not align with me one bit. If one was to even take a quick peek at a slide on a light table or even just held up to a light source i can't see how you would be so willing to throw film under the bus. scans, i have no idea. i don't know nuthin' about no scanning. i'm not even going to speculate. so, do you have a Mamiya that you don't need anymore ;D
> now i'm going to say damn right PWP! eye focus! give it to me!! I bet if they came out with it now, most consumers would think that it's the newest thing and would marvel at it. i'd much rather have eye focus on a digital body due to the fact that if it wasn't 100% i would just over shoot to compensate. no big deal as PWP just pointed out, we have memory card space.
> no really, so you looking for a caregiver for that mamiya?



Hah! Yes the original transparencies looked brilliant through a lupe on the lightbox, but to be commercially useable means scanning. Drum scanning delivers the highest achievable quality.

The Mamiya RZ67? As an early adopter of digital, I haven't even owned a film body since around 2002 when I got the FF Canon 1Ds, so the Mamiya is now a very distant unsentimental memory. Dropping film made complete sense commercially. In an average year my film and processing bill was around $40,000. With digital, that dropped instantly to zero, yet I was sending out bigger invoices. 

-pw


----------



## Ruined (Sep 8, 2014)

Let's hope the interchangeable focus screen that was in the 5D2, but not the 5D3, is put back into the 5D4.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 8, 2014)

rpt said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Stock focusing screens with split prism and microprism collar. I don't know that I'd really need/want one today, but I do sort of miss them.
> ...



I would like the option of switching focusing screens. Most photographers, probably wouldn't use them, but some would like to. Giving us the option would make me happy.


----------



## NancyP (Sep 10, 2014)

Feature which doesn't exist, to my knowledge, but which would be easy enough to write: LCD split screen image: pick two points in image at 1x, hit button, get those two points magnified 10x. Handy for checking depth of field, rather than having to cruise the 10x box all over the image by 8-way button.

I admit that I miss the split prism screens but they play heck with AF and metering. I use the extra-fine screen on the 6D, one of the few perks the 6D has over the 5D3, user-exchangeable screens.

A broad-brimmed hat takes care of the LCD image washout in bright light. It does look a bit geeky, but it also shades neck and face from sunburn.


----------



## risc32 (Sep 11, 2014)

pwp said:


> risc32 said:
> 
> 
> > hush your mouth PWP! i had a 30d, xti, and still use a 5d and 5dmk3. i have shot a good deal of 120-220, 135, and some 4x5 slides, and your statement does not align with me one bit. If one was to even take a quick peek at a slide on a light table or even just held up to a light source i can't see how you would be so willing to throw film under the bus. scans, i have no idea. i don't know nuthin' about no scanning. i'm not even going to speculate. so, do you have a Mamiya that you don't need anymore ;D
> ...



understood. it's one thing to fool around with film as a hobby (like i do) and something else entirely when it's work. i don't shoot film for work. i wouldn't dream of shooting a wedding all film. but i do happen to have right next to me a little box of sleeved film rolls that i shot of my kids that somehow looks better than anything i've done on digital. i don't know why that is, and i guess it doesn't really matter.
Now bring on that eye control focus!!


----------



## Mr Bean (Sep 11, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> * A-DEP mode -> automatic depth of field. I would want the 3-step method [as implemented e.g. in EOS 3], not the latter 1-step procedure [as e.g. in 40D, 50D]. I'd be willing to pay up to 25 €/$ extra for that feature, since it reuqires a minor firmware change only. http://www.vad1.com/photo/autodof.html



Yes please. I used it on occasion with my EOS3. While not perfect, it was another tool in the kit 




AvTvM said:


> * Focus trap -> automatic shutter release, as soon a moving object gets into [pre-set] focus. To my knowledge, this feature was never implemented in a Canon EOS - but on some/many Nikon DSLRs. I'd be willing to pay up to 25 €/$ extra since it requires only a minor firmware change only.



Ah, yes, this would be interesting to have for some of the wildlife shots I do. I have a feeling that Magic Lantern on the 5D3 can do this (not 100% sure).


----------



## Jim Saunders (Sep 11, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Feature which doesn't exist, to my knowledge, but which would be easy enough to write: LCD split screen image: pick two points in image at 1x, hit button, get those two points magnified 10x. Handy for checking depth of field, rather than having to cruise the 10x box all over the image by 8-way button.



I like it; also if the live view AF box could be made to zoom in and leave the rest of the frame as per normal then you could check focus and composition at the same time. 

Jim


----------

