# free upgrade to Windows 10 - yes or no?



## AJ (Jul 20, 2016)

I'm happily running Windows 7 on my PC workstation. Microsoft really wants me to upgrade to Windows 10. I have Windows 10 running on a little laptop, so I'm familiar with it, and I must say I have no preference of one over the other. 

Should I upgrade before the July 29 deadline?


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## beforeEos Camaras (Jul 20, 2016)

AJ said:


> I'm happily running Windows 7 on my PC workstation. Microsoft really wants me to upgrade to Windows 10. I have Windows 10 running on a little laptop, so I'm familiar with it, and I must say I have no preference of one over the other.
> 
> Should I upgrade before the July 29 deadline?



how old is your work station? mines way too old to upgrade


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## AJ (Jul 20, 2016)

beforeEos Camaras said:


> AJ said:
> 
> 
> > I'm happily running Windows 7 on my PC workstation. Microsoft really wants me to upgrade to Windows 10. I have Windows 10 running on a little laptop, so I'm familiar with it, and I must say I have no preference of one over the other.
> ...



Pretty old... about 8 years old I think.
AMD-Phenom-2 X2 550 processor 3.11 GHz
8 GB DDR3 memory

I originally had Vista-64 bit on it, but upgraded it to Win7 home premium 64 bit. The new Adobe camera-raw was incompatible with Vista. Win-7 runs well on my machine.

I own Adobe Creative suite 6. No intention to go on the Adobe cloud, if I can avoid it.
I also have MS Office 2010


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## weilin (Jul 20, 2016)

Like Vista before it, there will come a time when Windows 7 will be retired as well... If you had Win 10, the machine might remain relevant for a little while longer... It keeps options open.

On the other hand, by the time Win 7 is retired, you might just buy a new PC anyways and this discussion is moot.

Food for thought...


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jul 20, 2016)

My Windows 7 PC "upgraded" to Windows 10 without issues and it works well for me. My newer, and more capable, laptop (Windows 8.1) refuses to change? Go figure?


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## Random Orbits (Jul 20, 2016)

If you're happy with Win7, then stay with Win7. Microsoft automatically updated my desktop from Win7 to 10, but it was not stable. I tried troubleshooting it for a few hours, but to no avail, so I ended up rolling it back to Win7, and it is about 3-4 years old. I think security updates for Win7 is expected to end in 2020.


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## YuengLinger (Jul 20, 2016)

I have about 10% more bugs, 10% slower performance, and no discernible improvements. Four yr old i7, 24 GB RAM, newer nVidia.

Had to do a full, clean...


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## rfdesigner (Jul 20, 2016)

After M$ behaviour over W10 (not just the forced installs, but the spying, advertising etc), I no longer trust M$ at all.

This machine is running W7.. I'll never run another M$ OS.

I've already got two machines running Ubuntu, so that's my future.

EDIT: I predict M$ will keep W7 going beyond 2020 in some guise.. perhaps only maintaining W7enterprise. There's an awful lot of big businesses on W7 and I can't see them moving for a system that might be looking at what they're doing. (I know you can turn that off.. but only because M$ allows you to, for now, who's to say they don't turn it back on sometime)


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## TeT (Jul 20, 2016)

download the installation file using the option that places it on a thumb drive. Make up your mind later...


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## kaihp (Jul 20, 2016)

I downloaded Win10 to an ISO using the "MediaCreationTool" and used the ISO to install it to a Virtual Machine for testing.

After seeing what kind of GUI monster it is (some dialog windows are from Win7, some from Win8 and yet some from Win10), being force-feed all updates from Microsoft (with a regedit hack I could at least control when to download the updates), and a few other things like lack of privacy, I'm saying "Thanks, but no thanks".

Win7 will get security updates until ~2020. When that time comes, I'll decide how to proceed. Linux, MacOS, Android, staying on Win7? Maybe MS has taken a clue before that time and backpedalled (I'm not holding my breath on this).


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## monkey44 (Jul 20, 2016)

I paid extra on a new PC to KEEP Win7 and will not upgrade. Think about the additional cost to update/upgrade the programs too.

Win10 will not accept my PS or Word program, so in addition, I'd have to buy new programs - only now, you can't BUY them, you only RENT them. And if you stop the monthly fee, you lost all use of the processing software too.

Again, good comment above :: When Win7 out-dates, MS will probably sell Win15, so if you wait, then you get five versions or so newer.


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## tolusina (Jul 21, 2016)

If you have a spare drive, in Windows 7 Backup and Restore, create a disk image that you save to that spare. 
When the image creation completes, you'll be asked if you want to create a recovery (maybe it's called a start up) disk, do that.

You can now upgrade to or fresh install Windows 10 fully confident that you can replace it with your Windows 7 system complete, exactly as it is now if you don't like Windows 10.


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## pwp (Jul 21, 2016)

After somewhat irrationally clinging to Win7 for some time, I made the upgrade to Win 10 on 3 machines. Windows 10 is perfectly fine, it's a little more efficient and passes the ultimate test of an OS...I just don't notice it. 

There are solid arguments from a security viewpoint to run with the latest OS. Both my Macs run El Capitan and will get the Sierra treatment. Like Win 10, I'll wait for a few months for the dust to settle before updating. 

-pw


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 21, 2016)

Microsoft gave me a link to their ftp server, so I've downloaded the iso images for the versions of windows 7 and 10 that I use. I've upgraded two pc's, and bought a new one with Windows 10 installed. I've pretty much customized the interface to look and work like windows 7. It seems a tad slower to me, but pretty much the same. I have not upgraded 4 of my pc's, its a hassle. I upgraded a third pc, but then took a separate disk and reinstalled Windows 7 again, so I can use either on it.

I could not install my old Xerox printer drivers, and the universal driver was pretty basic, so I found a hack online that let me reinstall my old Win 2K 64 bit drivers. When you upgrade, those old drivers remain and work fine, but with a new pc or a clean install, you have to go into the registry and disable the requirement for a signed driver in Windows 10, those old drivers work fine, they are not signed.

Personally, I'd prefer Windows 7, but anyone using my PC would not see the difference in the interface until they dug into the innards a little. I use Start 10 which restores the start menu like Windows 7.


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## TheJock (Jul 21, 2016)

My laptop is only 3 years old, and I went from 8.1 to 10 with no problems at all. It appears to be running faster, but the layout takes a little getting used to.
I upgraded my RAM to 16gb at the start of the year and I would say it has had a better impact since the upgrade, I’m toying with a 1TB SSD to sharpen it up to the max. 8)


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## LDS (Jul 21, 2016)

AJ said:


> Should I upgrade before the July 29 deadline?



If you like the UI and can stand the fact it gathers and sends to Microsoft a lot of data - including user data that may be part of an application crash1 - unless you turn off all of the "privacy settings" (but unless you use an Enterprise or Education version, it will send data) - upgrade, there are some improvements over previous versions.

Also, be aware MS may upgrade your system automatically (again, if you're not a business user). That means most "consumer" users becomes automatically testers of new features. The only way to avoid it is to buy "business" licenses.

1 That means, for example, if Photoshop badly crashes often, MS can download - without your knowledge - the image(s) you had open at the time of the crash, to investigate the crash. For details, see here:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/manage/configure-windows-telemetry-in-your-organization


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## Valvebounce (Jul 21, 2016)

Hi AJ. 
I have upgraded to 10, my biggest beef with it is the updates, having had the update that corrupted my machine and required a full re install I liked to wait a week or two to do mine, now no choice. (or not that I can find.) 
Also there are odd occasions when I want / need to do a restart in a hurry, printing a ticket for the ferry so I could get off the Island being the most recent. I don't want to wait for several minutes watching the bloody stupid hamster wheel timer, I want to click restart without update, where did that go? 
I am now more concerned after reading here what info it can send back, I don't want my photos stolen from my machine for example. Just off to read the previous link carefully. 

Cheers, Graham.


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## SteveM (Jul 21, 2016)

I use the bought and payed for version of CS6 and I ran it very happily on Windows 7. After googling around, and reading a lot of forums I found CS6 worked ok on Windows 10. My big concern was 'will it work on Windows 11 or say 12 in the probable near future as I have little or no desire to rent Photoshop. So I updated to Windows 10 (bought a faster PC whilst I was at it), and I will now be able to run CS6 for several more years.
But (don't you always sense one of them coming), not all of my software was compatible with Windows 10. I lost Sony Movie Studio and one or two other bits of software. I knew what I'd loose before upgrading as I had checked the compatibility of all the software I use, so it was a conscious decision, bit the bullet and bought an updated version.
Check compatibility of all your software first, I emailed the manufacturers on 3 or 4 instances, the only one not to reply was 'Imagenomic' for 'Portraiture'- took a risk there as there was other software available.
Automatic updates are annoying, but I can live with that - better than finding Windows 11 won't run my bought version of CS6.
Spend some time checking compatibility first.


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## lion rock (Jul 21, 2016)

I have users that "love" Windows 10, and many that dislike it for its new UI or "phone home" feature.
One of my user is totally freaked by slight changes in any changes on the screen, regardless of the program. He was frantic to see that his computer was updating to 10. Came to my office to seek help to prevent it from happening.

I got info on a small program obtained from ---
Download and execute GWX Control Panel to prevent Windows 10 from loading:
http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
I tried it on a sandboxed system and it seems to work well without fuss. And then I installed it on his computer as well as several other computers that those users who don't want 10.

The whole idea of automatic updates and patches is bad. Many a times it breaks installed programs requiring time to fix or step back. I, as well as many other users, experienced automatic rebooting after a patch was installed thus loosing unsaved files. And when something like "free" Win10 update, no one can be sure it won't get pushed silently despite the user opting out.
-r


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## dgt888 (Jul 21, 2016)

My advice would be to install the Win10 upgrade by 29 July in order to reserve a free upgrade in the future. Try it out and you have 30 days to easily roll it back to Win7/8. The Windows activation server will retain record of the digital entitlement and should allow you to upgrade in the future for free. The upgrade process will advise of any programs that are not Win10 compatible and uninstall them in which case they would need to be reinstalled upon rollback.


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## AJ (Jul 21, 2016)

Thanks for the input everyone. I decided to decline the upgrade offer. I have an older computer that I'll likely replace before 2020, so I'm fine with Windows 7. Win10 will not give me any must-have features that are not present in Win7. I could care less about tiles. In all: if it ain't broke, why fix it.

I'm still waffling whether to upgrade my wife's 6-year-old larger laptop, but again I'm leaning towards decline.


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## iMagic (Jul 21, 2016)

AJ said:


> Thanks for the input everyone. I decided to decline the upgrade offer. I have an older computer that I'll likely replace before 2020, so I'm fine with Windows 7. Win10 will not give me any must-have features that are not present in Win7. I could care less about tiles. In all: if it ain't broke, why fix it.
> 
> I'm still waffling whether to upgrade my wife's 6-year-old larger laptop, but again I'm leaning towards decline.



I would not be so quick to abandon the Win 10 upgrade now. Even in cases of complete hardware change, you may still be able to upgrade to Win 10 for free as long as it was originally upgraded before July 29. If you completely change your hardware years from now, the process requires communicating with Microsoft that complete change and will probably require you to retain your old Win 7/8.1 key to present as "evidence". Of course this applies to situations where you build your own PC. Anytime you buy something pre-made then part of the cost is the Microsoft licence for that PC. I myself build my PC's. Therefore, I anticipate that I will not have to pay for another Microsoft licence the rest of my life.

http://www.howtogeek.com/226510/how-to-use-your-free-windows-10-license-after-changing-your-pc%E2%80%99s-hardware/


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## Hector1970 (Jul 22, 2016)

If you PC isn't up to it I think you should stick with what you have.
Windows 10 is fine but it's nothing special.
Everything is again in a different place but the search function to find it is better.

The only this I can say is that I find it much better than Apple's operating system
I find that so intuitive and confusing.
I don't what happened Apple over the years. I had been a user going way back but had moved to all Windows for a good few years. I have iPhones and iPads which are very easy to use.
I expected the OS system to more complicated than an iPhone but cleverer than Windows.
I should have known from iTunes that Apple don't do simple on PC's
I have to use Google to find out how to do the simplest of things on the Apple.
Right Click on the mouse wasn't set up by default.
Trying to find files initially was difficult.
My son had signed into guest account and I hadn't realised. I couldn't copy the work I did while in that account and as soon as you shut down it all deleted.
I was trying to copy files to an external drive the other day.
I can copy files to any other part of the computers hard drive but haven't succeeded yet in copying them to an external hard drive. The paste function seems to disappear.

I don't think Windows is great by any means but it's alot more user friendly than OS X El Capitan.
I'm sure it's much easier if you've grown with it but I haven't found it intuitive (and I've dealt with some untuitive operating systems in my time (CP/M, MS DOS etc).


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## TeT (Jul 22, 2016)

Upgraded both of my 8.1 machines. Did not see the need to upgrade my 7 64's


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## monkey44 (Jul 23, 2016)

Techhimself says:
If you were telling me you had a machine that's newer, I'd say consider Windows 10, it's not bad either, just driver support becomes a problem with older hardware, and your machine has less life left in it. It's better to enjoy Windows 7 for the next 3 years and upgrade sometime before that, or even slightly after, but not more than a month after it expires as cyber security is going to become more of a problem, not less. Going without updates for more than a month, even now, is dangerous, 3 years from now though? It'll be cyber kiss of death.

^^^^^^^ this one !!

Technology moves so fast on the theft end, even the manufacturer has a tough time keeping up. By the time a new OS or program is released, the cyber hacks are already in place. The older machines don't support the new protection as well, and hacks have had years to figure it out. 

We have Win7 on all three machines, even tho' we had to "downgrade' the newest to Win7 a couple months ago (came with Win10) -- when 2020 arrives, we'll probably replace all three at once to whatever the newest Win OS offers. OR, almost went to Mac this time, and might do that with all three when Win7 gives up the ghost.


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## TeT (Jul 23, 2016)

thetechhimself said:


> Side note, on a Camera forum, asking about an OS, perhaps your real question should be, should my next computer be a Mac? It's the platform of media development my friend... And it's hassle-free, us *Mac folk don't worry about such things*. *But, you pay a pretty penny*. You do however *get what you pay for*, Apple uses high end components in their hardware specs, and, bundles lots of free software in. If you have the money, consider a refurbished Mac when the time comes. They're cheaper then new, but carry the same 1 yr warranty. Even last gen refurbished is a good gig.



A decent quality PC is just as good as a mac (or better), don't let the Apple crowd scare you. Rather than point out that Apple uses high end components, he should have pointed out to avoid cheap PC's...


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## YuengLinger (Jul 26, 2016)

TeT said:


> thetechhimself said:
> 
> 
> > Side note, on a Camera forum, asking about an OS, perhaps your real question should be, should my next computer be a Mac? It's the platform of media development my friend... And it's hassle-free, us *Mac folk don't worry about such things*. *But, you pay a pretty penny*. You do however *get what you pay for*, Apple uses high end components in their hardware specs, and, bundles lots of free software in. If you have the money, consider a refurbished Mac when the time comes. They're cheaper then new, but carry the same 1 yr warranty. Even last gen refurbished is a good gig.
> ...



+1

Apple laptops are built on assembly lines that run parallel to those for higher end PC laptops in factories in China.

Amazing how the cult of Jobs lives on. Have you ever known an Apple believer to miss a chance to convert Windows users? What is the obsession?


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## drjlo (Jul 26, 2016)

SteveM said:


> Check compatibility of all your software first, I emailed the manufacturers on 3 or 4 instances, the only one not to reply was 'Imagenomic' for 'Portraiture'- took a risk there as there was other software available.



I "upgraded" my old Win 7 laptop to Win10 and don't notice any improvements of note.

I have been holding off on my Win 8.1 machine I use for Photoshop CS6 and another machine for audiophile audio use as they have lots of software, many from small specialty companies, that cannot guarantee 100% Win 10 compatibility. 

Anybody had any Win 10 compatibility uses with following?:
Alien Skin exposure 7
Anthropics Portrait pro
DxO filmpack 3.0
Imagenomic Noiseware Pro
Neat Image Reduce Noise
Nik collection 
Topaz various plug-ins


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## candyman (Jul 26, 2016)

drjlo said:


> SteveM said:
> 
> 
> > Check compatibility of all your software first, I emailed the manufacturers on 3 or 4 instances, the only one not to reply was 'Imagenomic' for 'Portraiture'- took a risk there as there was other software available.
> ...


From your list: I only use DxO Filmpack 3
Did an upgrade from windows 8.1 to windows 10. I do not have issues with Filmpack. What issues do you have?
Maybe an option to remove and re-install Filmpack?


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## Hector1970 (Jul 26, 2016)

Alien Skin exposure 7 - I think it still works don't use it much
Anthropics Portrait pro - Works
DxO filmpack 3.0 - Think it works don't use it
Imagenomic Noiseware Pro - Works
Neat Image Reduce Noise - Never heard of it
Nik collection - Yes works
Topaz various plug-ins - Yes Works

I didn't find any impacts on plugins. I've a few old ones and they still work away.
I might get the odd crash but not all the time.

My big issue is that my SSD Drive is too small. Windows sneaked the Windows 10 upgrade into it while trying to persuade you to upgrade (to make it all go faster when you did upgrade). Photoshop and Lightroom also store temp files there so 128GB is too small. You can delete the old versions of Windows and Windows 10 upgrades but the space later gets taken up again.
If you are even puttng in an SSD drive - make it big - well worth it in the end.
Trying to upgrade an SSD is way too complicated for most computer users.
This is probably because Microsoft don't want to make it easy to clone.
They need to make PC's more easily upgrade able with RAM memory, hard disks, SSD's, Graphics cards etc.


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## Kristofgss (Jul 26, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> Trying to upgrade an SSD is way too complicated for most computer users.


Samsung SSD drives come with very good software to make it as painless as possible., put the SSD in external housing, run the software, replace your internal drive by the external drive and all done.


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## Hector1970 (Jul 26, 2016)

Kristofgss said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > Trying to upgrade an SSD is way too complicated for most computer users.
> ...


Thanks for the advice I'll look it up.
I tried it with a Crucial SSD but the computer would not recognize the drive.
Explanations on the web as to what to do were too convoluted to follow.


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## kaihp (Jul 26, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> Kristofgss said:
> 
> 
> > Hector1970 said:
> ...



The Samsung Data Migration software is "Powered by Clonix Co Ltd" (www.clonix.com)


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## drjlo (Jul 28, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> Alien Skin exposure 7 - I think it still works don't use it much
> Anthropics Portrait pro - Works
> DxO filmpack 3.0 - Think it works don't use it
> Imagenomic Noiseware Pro - Works
> ...



Thanks for the info. I went ahead and upgraded two of my Win 8.1 machines to Win 10, right after which I installed DoNotSpy10 to minimize any spying Microsoft may be doing. 

So far so good.. CS6 and all the ancillary programs and plug-in's seem to be working. 

I do have an issue with viewing thumbnails for Sony ARW files, which show up as squares with big "PS" letters, but only when I try to view and open them through Photoshop's File->open pathway. ARW file thumbnails ARE visible when navigating via Photoshop Bridge or if I go to the ARW file itself and right-click "open" with photoshop. I did update ACR to the latest possible for CS6, the ACR 9.1.1.

This may not be 100% Win 10 issue, since even in Win 8.1, only about 50-60% of ARW file thumbnails became "visible" if I try to open ARW via File->open pathway. But now with Win 10, none of the ARW files are visible in folder. I do have 16GB of RAM with Intel core i7 processor, so it should be enough to view ARW file thumbnails, I would have thought...


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## LDS (Aug 29, 2016)

drjlo said:


> I do have an issue with viewing thumbnails for Sony ARW files



It looks Microsoft didn't bother to update its codecs pack for Window 10. "Improving the user experience" is OK only when it's convenient for MS, not the user <G>.

For Sony files you can download the needed codecs directly from Sony (i.e. https://esupport.sony.com/swu/4022/US/), or use one of the existing 3rd party codecs. Some people were able to install the codecs pack for Windows 8.1 on 10 using the compatibility mode - but if all you need are Sony files I'd go with the Sony codec.

Hope Canon will start to make available again codecs for its RAW files, MS isn't reliable at all when it has to support these features.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 30, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> Kristofgss said:
> 
> 
> > Hector1970 said:
> ...



Spend $35 for a drive cloning device, put both drives in it, making sure the new one is larger, and let it go to work.

https://www.amazon.com/Inateck-Dual-Bay-Docking-Function-Tool-free/dp/B00N1KXE9K/ref=sr_1_2?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1472527398&sr=8-2&keywords=hard+drive+clone&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011


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## Maiaibing (Aug 30, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> Kristofgss said:
> 
> 
> > Hector1970 said:
> ...


Agree. Have installed a lot of SSD's. Samsungs SSD/software packages just works. No need for additional software.


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## drjlo (Sep 15, 2016)

LDS said:


> ectly from Sony (i.e. https://esupport.sony.com/swu/4022/US/), or use one of the existing 3rd party codecs. Some people were able to install the codecs pack for Windows 8.1 on 10 using the compatibility mode - but if all you need are Sony files I'd go with the Sony codec.



Thanks for the link, but my problem is that Sony ARAW thumbnails are viewable in Windows but NOT viewable when I look through photoshop CS6. When I open photoshop and use "File"->"open" function to look for that same ARAW file, the thumbnail just shows up with generic square with no preview (see attached screenview). I do have adobe camera raw 9.1.1 installed, which should cover my Sony A7R fine. Maybe it's because I have Photoshop CS6? I sure hope there is a solution.


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## TeT (Sep 15, 2016)

9.1.1 Raw is the last update that will work with CS6... Adobe has put out later versions of Raw but they do not function with CS6


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## LDS (Sep 15, 2016)

drjlo said:


> Thanks for the link, but my problem is that Sony ARAW thumbnails are viewable in Windows but NOT viewable when I look through photoshop CS6.



That may depend on what "open dialog" PS uses. If it uses the Windows one, thumbnails should appear - if it uses its own, even if attempts to look like the Windows one, but is managed by PS itself, they may not appear.


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## drjlo (Sep 15, 2016)

LDS said:


> drjlo said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the link, but my problem is that Sony ARAW thumbnails are viewable in Windows but NOT viewable when I look through photoshop CS6.
> ...



And what would be the solution for that..?


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## LDS (Sep 15, 2016)

drjlo said:


> And what would be the solution for that..?



You could try something like http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/, but if PS "overrides" the "File open" dialog in ways that bypasses some of the Windows features, I'm afraid there's no solution, but upgrading PS.

Did you check if in other applications thumbnails are shown correctly or not? If they do, the issue is really in PS.


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## GMCPhotographics (Sep 17, 2016)

AJ said:


> beforeEos Camaras said:
> 
> 
> > AJ said:
> ...



I found that quite sad by Adobe. Considering Win 10 / 8 /7 are all variants of the Vista 64 OS...I don't see why Adobe felt the need to block Vista users.


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## LDS (Sep 17, 2016)

GMCPhotographics said:


> I found that quite sad by Adobe. Considering Win 10 / 8 /7 are all variants of the Vista 64 OS...I don't see why Adobe felt the need to block Vista users.



For the matter, they are all variants of Windows NT, more or less...  The reason to stop support for a given version may be both technical and economical.

Technical, if you want to use new features (even some low level ones that won't be much visible to users), economical if you believe QA - you have to test each version (home basic, premium, pro, etc., both 32 and 64 bit, on a variety of hardware), find beta testers also - and support for a given release costs more than the sales it brings.

Vista is today used by a very small percentage of users (2.9% in the US, according to StatCounter, even less than XP still a little over 4% !), and not only Adobe is ceasing support for that OS, especially since being perceived as an OS used on old systems which may be also underpowered to run latest software (and would also bring a lot of support requests).


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