# Refreshing a dead LP-E4 with new Cells



## Timothy_Bruce (Jul 30, 2015)

I have 3 LP-E4 for my 1Ds III and one of them died completely. So the curious person I am, opened it up. Finding it worked with three 18650 LiIon-Cells, just as expected from its shape. One of the Cells was dead, the other two not that bad for 6 Years old. 

So I got three working cells and exchanged them. After putting it back together it was able to be charged again, today I will test how well it behaves in Camera. Three green bars in the Battery menu seem promising:

Here are some Photos for you  

Interesting how much electronic is in there, I have looked some of these chips up and there is a micro-controller, a dedicated battery protection chip and some relatively big MOSFETs in there.


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## Timothy_Bruce (Jul 30, 2015)

Some more Photos of the Inside


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## Timothy_Bruce (Jul 30, 2015)

And the new Cells


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## Dekaner (Jul 30, 2015)

Interesting, thanks for posting.


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## TheJock (Jul 30, 2015)

This is exactly the type of post that we need to see more of on CR, thank you for this 8)


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## Click (Jul 30, 2015)

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.


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## tolusina (Jul 30, 2015)

Excellent Posts! 
Thank You!


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## Zeidora (Jul 30, 2015)

How much are three new Li-cells vs new LPE4 pack? Do you know whether that also works for the LP-E6 cells for the 5D series? I don't see an easy way to open them.


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## old-pr-pix (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm surprised at the amount of residual flux showing in the original construction. Or, is that brown stuff near solder joints something else?


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## applecider (Jul 30, 2015)

Excellent posting but a few questions arise.

Again about the brown stuff glue or flux or some kind of electrolysis compound?

Cost and source of batteries.

Performance in camera and on charger.

Looks like there was some kind of gasket putty on the original case, if true did you replace it with any type of gasket material?

Great post.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 30, 2015)

Selling Li=On them to individuals is not allowed by reputable battery manufacturers. I wonder if they are dangerous Chinese cells, or just bootleg cells being slipped out of production, or did you pull them from another dead battery pack?

There have been too many Darwin Awards already this summer, people setting of fireworks on their head and chest. I hope we don't get another yet from putting Chinese made cells in a otherwise safe battery pack.


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## sanj (Jul 30, 2015)

Brilliant. I wish I had it in me to open stuff...


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## Timothy_Bruce (Jul 30, 2015)

applecider said:


> Excellent posting but a few questions arise.
> 
> Again about the brown stuff glue or flux or some kind of electrolysis compound?
> 
> ...



I think it is flux from hand soldering of the red cabels and the thermal fuse. I cleaned it of and later again the rest of me soldering new wires in. 

These Cells are quite common in powerfull Led flashlights and portable USB powerpacks. So they can be bought online quite easily for something from 6 to 10€ per cell up to about 3500mAh. (The small 2200mAh-2600mAh power Packs normally incorporate 1 of these Cells the bigger 10400mAh packs 4 of them) I thought about buying 3 of them online for about 26€ included shipping. But I opted for using 3 cells from a relatively new Powerpack I had. These cells where already there, proven to work quite well (tested them for capacity and self discharge).

Performance: In the charger the refreshed pack behaved just like a geniue one. In camera testing is on the way. So far all is fine camera powers up just normal, AF works, IS works, WFT works ( I plan to test the power drain of the camera sitting with just the menu up on full screen brightness to get a consistent drain, test this with the refreshed and a canon pack. Also I will test transferring a full 32GB card to another in Camera. Then looking after % drained in the Camera menu. If someone has a suggestion for a better test method let me know!) 

As seen in the first picture the outer part with the Camera-Body-gasket comes of first, this gasket is unharmed by the refresh. The part with the cells and electronics in it was glued together, I put it back together the same way.

@ old-pr-pix see above 



Zeidora said:


> How much are three new Li-cells vs new LPE4 pack? Do you know whether that also works for the LP-E6 cells for the 5D series? I don't see an easy way to open them.



Three new Cells are about 30€, a third party LP-E4 is about 70€, a Canon LP-E4N is about 170€ in Germany. 
I suspect that in an LP-E6 are 2 similar Li-Ion Cell of smaller dimensions ( I have LP-E6 for my 7D as soon as one dies I will check!) There is no easy way to open them as far as I know (same for the LP-E4). Prying it open was quite difficult!

@Mt Spokane Photography see above for source of the Cells. 
Darwin Award ( I love this therm!) I use Lipo Packs for my Quadrocopters and know how to handle these Lithium stuffed things. Don´t worry about me, it will sleep in the battery bunker with the other ones. 
But speaking of that, don´t try to do things like this without knowing what you are doing!!!
(These Cells with CIDs and good protection circuitry on the board are quite save, but better save than sorry)


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## dcm (Jul 30, 2015)

Timothy_Bruce said:


> ...
> 
> @Mt Spokane Photography see above for source of the Cells.
> Darwin Award ( I love this therm!) I use Lipo Packs for my Quadrocopters and know how to handle these Lithium stuffed things. Don´t worry about me, it will sleep in the battery bunker with the other ones.
> ...



So, not for the typical do-it-yourselfer or first timer... prior experience with Li-Ion cells and electronics recommended.


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## Timothy_Bruce (Jul 30, 2015)

dcm said:


> So, not for the typical do-it-yourselfer or first timer... prior experience with Li-Ion cells and electronics recommended.


I don´t know what you mean with a typical do-it-yourselfer. A first timer NO! 

Experience with electronics not really (nothing to do on that side) with Lithium cells Yes.
But getting it open without destroying it and soldering the new cells together in the right shape requires some skill and experience. Especially making sure there are no shorts and no chance of getting one by vibration or shock.


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## kaihp (Jul 30, 2015)

Timothy_Bruce said:


> dcm said:
> 
> 
> > So, not for the typical do-it-yourselfer or first timer... prior experience with Li-Ion cells and electronics recommended.
> ...



Agreed. I did basically the same to a 15 year old AEG accu-driven drill/screwdriver about a year ago. Unfortunately, the quality of the cells I got hold of wasn't very good, so they don't last very long on a single charge. I have since augmented my home with a DeWalt DVD795D2 unit


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 30, 2015)

dcm said:


> Timothy_Bruce said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



There are a ton of issues with Li-On cells, the electronics are matched to the type of cell being used to prevent overcharge or overheat. Just tossing a cell in because it looks the same may create a mismatch.

It could be a very safe installation, or a potential disaster.

Hopefully, he did not solder the batteries, that's really dangerous for Li-on, since it can damage the batteries internally and make them much more likely to explode. Just because someone has done it, does not mean its safe. The components in a Li-On cell are flammable while Ni-MH, for example is not.


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## Timothy_Bruce (Jul 31, 2015)

I have finished the first tests and they look quite good. 

So after 60min display full brightness the peer group Pack hat 90% charge left and the refreshed one 92%. 

For a second test I let the camera copy 27,5GB from the CF to SD card. This also takes about 60 min.
The peer pack hat 87% left and the refreshed one 90%. 

So the refreshed pack seems to have a slightly higher capacity than the old one. 
The Battery info shows 3 green bars and Maximum recharge performance. 

Till now I am relatively pleased with how this works.


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## IsaacImage (Jul 31, 2015)

Good job .
Thank you or the great information.


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## tolusina (Jul 31, 2015)

sanj said:


> Brilliant. I wish I had it in me to open stuff...


Was a time in my life, now long gone, some devices I'd buy got opened even before first use I was that curious.
Now, I mostly figure if an item has become non-functional, best case I might figure how to fix it, worst case it's still trash.


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## Botts (Aug 5, 2015)

Timothy_Bruce said:


> Darwin Award ( I love this therm!) I use Lipo Packs for my Quadrocopters and know how to handle these Lithium stuffed things. Don´t worry about me, it will sleep in the battery bunker with the other ones.
> But speaking of that, don´t try to do things like this without knowing what you are doing!!!
> (These Cells with CIDs and good protection circuitry on the board are quite save, but better save than sorry)



That's good, Li-Po cells can be scary. Any DIY'd ones are good to keep in a battery bunker when not supervised.



dcm said:


> So, not for the typical do-it-yourselfer or first timer... prior experience with Li-Ion cells and electronics recommended.



Definitely not worth playing with without experience with LiPo cells, and appropriate safety equipment. A battery safe / battery bunker is important, as is a CO2 fire extinguisher.

An angry LiPo cell started a pretty significant fire in our local Samsung store. I'll try and find the news article.

To put it bluntly, when I worked for Apple there were only two tests that you HAD to pass:

#1: Electrical and CRT safety. CRTs killed a lot of computer and TV techs in the olden days.
#2: Lithium battery safety. This is crucial as Apple doesn't use plastic shielding on most of the new batteries to safe space. It's fine if you are careful and know what you are doing, but even still, some packs get punctured or shorted, and then that's where the battery safe / fire extinguisher can come into play.

Don't mess around with lithium cells if you aren't sure of what you're doing.


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