# Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 22, 2017)

```
This is a question we receive multiple times every single day, so I’d figure we’d give an update, even though nothing has really changed.</p>
<p>We expect to see the EOS 6D Mark II announced in the late spring/early summer of this year, with availability in the summer. For the moment, pricing has not yet been set, currency fluctuations may prevent knowing that until much closer to the announcement.</p>
<p>As far as specifications go, very little is known for sure. However, we think by looking at the recent EOS 77D announcement, we can make some good predictions as to what we’re likely to see from Canon’s entry level full frame camera.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Predicted Specifications</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>24-28mp full frame CMOS</li>
<li>45 AF points (all cross-type)</li>
<li>Dual Pixel AF</li>
<li>DIGIC 7</li>
<li>Built-in Wi-Fi®, NFC and Bluetooth® technology</li>
<li>Built-in GPS</li>
<li>Vari-Angle touchscreen LCD</li>
<li>6 FPS Shooting</li>
<li>HDR Movie & Time Lapse Movie</li>
<li>Some form of 4K video</li>
<li>Movie electronic image stabilization</li>
<li>Dual SD card slots</li>
<li>100% coverage optical viewfinder with some new features</li>
</ul>
<p>As we all know, Canon very rarely goes way outside of the with new products, as their cameras aren’t just about one specific feature. It’s generally how all of the features come together to make a great shooting experience for the photographer.</p>
<p>We would love to see this camera come in at under the $2000 USD mark.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

_*Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?*
_
Though the original 6D had a great sensor, on so many other fronts it was a clear step down from the 5D3. The 6D2 spec list you are showing above, however, punches its weight against the 5D4 _much_ better in comparison.

I kid of course, but the delay might be Canon p---ing its pants that such a spec list @ $2000 will have many stills-only shooters wondering why to pay $1500 more for a 5D4. I think the 6D2 needs to be more deliberately nerfed than what your rumored spec list indicates, or it simply needs a higher asking price. Otherwise, 5D4 sales might suffer.

- A


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> _*Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?*
> _
> Though the original 6D had a great sensor, on so many other fronts it was a clear step down from the 5D3. The 6D2 spec list you are showing above, however, punches its weight against the 5D4 _much_ better in comparison.
> 
> ...



I have had one suggestion that Canon is working on a substantial 5D4 firmware update.... I can't confirm it with any certainty though.

Build quality alone will justify the price of the 5D4, and by the time the 6D2 launches, we should see some kind of a price drop on its big brother.


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## CosminD (Feb 22, 2017)

i really don't think they will put a 45 AF points (all cross-type) sistem . The rest of the specs are plausible . I will buy it with the new Tamron 70-200 vc G2 (hope they release a new 27-70 vc G2 too) 

PS: hope the 6d II will not be crippled like the old 6d compared to the 5d series(especialy af, dual cards etc) and also will be under 2k $ . Also i think the 5d IV should be under 3k $ , now is to expensive (more expensive than D810 who has better IQ for example) and still lacks in functions . For example that video codec is a joke , 8 min of filming on a 32gb card ? . No C log ? Also ancient sd and cf cards ? And still using AA filter that reduce IQ and rezolution by 10-15 % ? Is 2017 ! Come on canon , put some effort in it, at least release a new firmware with a better video codec , c log and focus peaking . A lot of video guys will love it


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## mdmphoto (Feb 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> _*Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?*
> _
> Though the original 6D had a great sensor, on so many other fronts it was a clear step down from the 5D3. The 6D2 spec list you are showing above, however, punches its weight against the 5D4 _much_ better in comparison.
> 
> ...



Sadly, I must admit that I share that cynical skepticism, based on bitter experience in nearly all of Life’s arenas. The 6D was the FF body I was able to justify purchasing to my ever-present financial conscience as a fair compromise between expense and abilities (both the camera body’s and my own), after otherwise behaving for well over a year’s time. Already owning a 50D and 7D at the time, the 6D’s AF shortcomings were immediately apparent; however, the larger, cleaner images and expanded ISO and DR capabilities more, IMHO, than made up for the necessity of extra effort in framing and focusing my shots.
I could better imagine, maybe, 24 AF points, with perhaps half of those being cross-type, some ISO expansion, similarly-conservative expansion of MP, while staying at the same price point.
The posted wondrous spec list would almost-certainly demand some price rise, probably in the 20% range.
Of course, not being an expert by an stretch of even the faintest imagination, I am hopeful that the 6D II will debut at least very closely to the specs as speculated….


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> I have had one suggestion that Canon is working on a substantial 5D4 firmware update.... I can't confirm it with any certainty though.
> 
> Build quality alone will justify the price of the 5D4, and by the time the 6D2 launches, we should see some kind of a price drop on its big brother.



1) Firmware = great to hear if so. But unless the firmware drops the mic on something truly game-changing (smaller crop in 4K, more fps, multi-shot sensor-shift composites (on a non-IBIS body? ???), on-board flash wireless flash control, etc.), it's hard to see that changing the purchasing decision very much, IMHO.

2) According to CPW, the 5D3 did drop a few hundred dollars in 2013 after the 6D2 was rolled out and then Canon _yanked it back up to its initial asking price of $3499 in 2014_. But you very well may be right -- the market will be different this time around with the 6D2 being a far more compelling animal than its predecessor, and and the 5D4 price may need to walk down sooner rather than later as a result.

- A


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

mdmphoto said:


> I could better imagine, maybe, 24 AF points, with perhaps half of those being cross-type, some ISO expansion, similarly-conservative expansion of MP, while staying at the same price point.
> The posted wondrous spec list would almost-certainly demand some price rise, probably in the 20% range.



That's where my head was. The 6D2 had to nerf something more than just a little compared to the 5D4 (other than solid build quality) or $2k would appear a bargain. 

Consider the prior feature match up:

5D3: 22 MP / 6 fps / 61 AF points / dual cards / stellar build quality / fixed LCD --> $3499 initial asking
6D1: 20 MP / 4.5 fps / 11 AF points / single card / good build quality / fixed LCD --> $2099 initial asking

This 'pay more and get more' value proposition worked for me, and it worked for the market. The 5D3 maintained its price very well while the 6D price did not. (Yes, there's a ton more to each rig's value proposition, and I don't want to drive past the 6D1's interchangeable screens and -3 EV AF center point, both are which are better than the 5D3.)

But based on this latest spec list, it would look like this to prospective shoppers:

5D4: 30 MP / 7 fps / 61 AF points / dual cards / many f/8 points for T/C use / stellar build quality / fixed LCD --> $3499 initial asking (might come down some)
6D2: 24-28 MP / 6 fps / 45 AF points / dual cards / many f/8 points for T/C use (presumed) / good build quality / tilty-flippy LCD --> $2k?

I just feel that for the stills-only camp, there is very little the 5D4 can do that the 6D2 could not. The 5D4's feature advantage over the 6D2 doesn't seem like a $1500 bump in 'better' to me like it did with the last-gen.

- A


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## docsmith (Feb 22, 2017)

No joystick, fewer buttons, lower build quality, a few other ergonomic features. I am taking those for granted at this point. But I have to agree, that spec list seems a little too cozy to the 5DIV. 

I hope the firmware update is great, but what would it be? Better 4K video? That wouldn't affect stills shooters. Give it better 4K video and 8-9 fps....that would be something.

Here's to hoping that the list is correct, the 6DII is amazing, and Canon tries to sell it for $2,200 while dropping the 5DIV to $3,000 while giving it even more features via a firmware upgrade. 

I like to dream.


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## bereninga (Feb 22, 2017)

I also doubt that the 6DII will get 45 AF points, and it will probably have one SD slot IMO. The 6D wasn't meant to be pro and I think it will continue to be crippled in order to protect 5DIV sales. The AF system and memory card slots will continue to be its achilles heel.


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## Otara (Feb 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> _*Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?*
> _
> Though the original 6D had a great sensor, on so many other fronts it was a clear step down from the 5D3. The 6D2 spec list you are showing above, however, punches its weight against the 5D4 _much_ better in comparison.
> 
> ...



It has to be a compelling alternative to a 5D3 too though. Its sandwiched between two great options.


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

Otara said:


> It has to be a compelling alternative to a 5D3 too though. Its sandwiched between two great options.



Sure, _until the 5D3 is discontinued_, which I'd imagine will officially occur shortly after the 6D2 announcement/launch timeframe. If past is prologue...

6D announcement: 9 / 17 / 2012
6D first shipments: 11 / 30 / 2012 (that about right? Google seemed iffy on this)
5D2 discontinued: 12 / 24 / 2012

...then no, I don't see the 5D3 sticking around. I think it will fall off the map very quickly after the 6D2 rollout, likely to be quickly devoured in 3rd party / eBay reseller marketplaces.

- A


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## Otara (Feb 22, 2017)

As did the 5D2. Because the marketplace is awash with so many 5d3's secondhand as well, they're serious competition. The difference between the 5D3 was large enough that they simply had to add on a few bells and whistles to a 5D2 and all was well.

They cant do that so easily now. And its other natural competition is the 6D. There are too many good quality low price alternatives to compare against.


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## MintChocs (Feb 22, 2017)

I nearly choked on the reading the speculative specs, there is no way in hell that Canon would release such a good camera, everything they released is crippled to the point of just about acceptable. They don't care what the competition releases they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot against the 5D4, nobody is buying that camera for 4K and very unlikely for HD. They are buying it as a stills camera so why put a cheaper alternative unless they foresee a reduction in demand for 5D4s


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## Orangutan (Feb 22, 2017)

MintChocs said:


> everything they released is crippled to the point of just about acceptable.


How do they sell so many units, then?



> They don't care what the competition releases


Of course they care. When the competition releases something that sells as well as Canon's products, they'll care even more.


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

MintChocs said:


> I nearly choked on the reading the speculative specs, there is no way in hell that Canon would release such a good camera, everything they released is crippled to the point of just about acceptable. They don't care what the competition releases they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot against the 5D4, nobody is buying that camera for 4K and very unlikely for HD. They are buying it as a stills camera so why put a cheaper alternative unless they foresee a reduction in demand for 5D4s



So do they...

(a) ...considerably nerf the specs compared to what we've seen rumored so far,

(b) ...jack up the price to something that might make more sense given it's 'functional proximity' to a 5D4, say $2299-2499, or 

(c) ...put out a little spec sheet monster for $1999 and endanger the 5D4 price?

The rumored specs seem to have 'settled' at this point, so one might guess that might very well be the product we see. That puts the more likely outcome at either (b) or (c), right?

- A


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## hendrik-sg (Feb 22, 2017)

it may be a rule or not, but the 6d got the specs of the old 5dii with small improvements and much lesser build quality. 

it this is a rule, then maybe the speclist is reasonable, because the pressure from market is increased, when even Rebel cameras get former pro AF Systems now and f8 points. The market is shrinking, so they have to deliver a great shooting expierience, if a consumer should pay 2k$

On the other hand, the 5diii has a feature set, which a "non enthusiast" who is not willing to read the instruction manual will not use at all. This means, in my opinion a 6dii could be less technical and more "intuitive" and more "automatic" than a 5diii. it should maybe work like a super high end phone camera, with which a typical phone photographer can take better pics with than with the phone. This is not a easy task for the development department.

so, maybe it could have a pop up flash, as the nikons


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## unfocused (Feb 22, 2017)

Interesting.

I'm also a bit skeptical about the number of autofocus points. Although, that does sound like essentially the same autofocus specifications as the 80D.

As far as a major firmware upgrade for the 5D IV goes, what could they add to the 5D IV and how then would that impact the 1D XII? Seems like a slippery slope to me.


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

unfocused said:


> As far as a major firmware upgrade for the 5D IV goes, what could they add to the 5D IV and how then would that impact the 1D XII? Seems like a slippery slope to me.



Disagree... unless it's an exclusive 5D4 feature, and a game changer at that. Bumping the 5D4 to (say) 8-9 fps isn't going to tank 1DX2 sales. 

Right now the 1DX2 in all things (other than resolution and smaller size for those who don't want an integral grip) lords over the rest of the offerings pretty comprehensively. The gulf between the 1DX2 and 5D4 is correct for the price they want for it. The same is not so for a $2k 6D2 (at those rumored specs) to a $3499 5D4, i.e. IMHO the 6D2 is far closer to the 5D4 than the 5D4 is to the 1DX2, so the 5D4 has room to improve or differentiate itself without stealing the 1DX2's thunder.

- A


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## testthewest (Feb 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> _*Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?*
> _
> Though the original 6D had a great sensor, on so many other fronts it was a clear step down from the 5D3. The 6D2 spec list you are showing above, however, punches its weight against the 5D4 _much_ better in comparison.
> 
> ...



Well, if it has a tilt-flip screen, then you have your big-money difference (as I learned from these very forums: Canon Pro absolutely hate those, because they could break while they play baseball with their gear). And then there is that Pixel-shift. That should really be enough.


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## Rick (Feb 22, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> This is a question we receive multiple times every single day



If you want to stop pesky questions, quit stirring up unrealistic expectations by reprinting ridiculous specification lists for this camera.


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## jc7222 (Feb 22, 2017)

<li>24-28mp full frame CMOS</li>
<li>45 AF points (all cross-type)</li>
<li>Dual Pixel AF</li>
<li>DIGIC 7</li>
<li>Built-in Wi-Fi®, NFC and Bluetooth® technology</li>
<li>Built-in GPS</li>
<li>Vari-Angle touchscreen LCD</li>
<li>6 FPS Shooting</li>
<li>HDR Movie & Time Lapse Movie</li>
<li>Some form of 4K video</li>
<li>Movie electronic image stabilization</li>
<li>Dual SD card slots</li>
<li>100% coverage optical viewfinder with some new features</li>
</ul>
<p>As we all know, Canon very rarely goes way outside of the with new products, as their cameras aren’t just about one specific feature. It’s generally how all of the features come together to make a great shooting experience for the photographer.</p>
<p>We would love to see this camera come in at under the $2000 USD mark.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>[/html]
[/quote]

Below are my expectations for the 6D II

- I somehow doubt Canon will put 45 AF points in the 6D mark II. I would be very happy to be wrong but, I expect it to be somewhere in the 20s with all points being cross-type and the center point dual cross-type and -6EV. Now trying to explain to a person moving up to FF that they have reduced AF points may be tricky.
(I would be very satisfied with 20+ AF points that works as well as the current model's center point and a more robust center point.)
- The view finder will not be at 100%. More likely 98%
- The shutter speed will remain at 1/4000 sec
- The FPS will be 5.5 sec 
- The build quality will be inferior to the 5D IV

These differences will keep the price point lower and justify the extra $$ for the 5D IV.
-


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## scyrene (Feb 22, 2017)

Ugh "nerf". A euphemism for 'cripple', and just as pointless.

Anyhow, I saw a lot of people moaning here that 7fps was too slow, but 8-9fps would be ideal when the 5D4 came out. If 1-2fps are so important, why is the gap between the 5D4 and a putative 6D2 not so big? The same can be said of MP count, AF points, etc.

Price is key, more than ever. If the price is high, leaving room for an entry-entry-level FF camera, then the 6D2 can get higher-end specs. Otherwise, there will be limitations. That's not 'crippling' (as some here have put it), but segregating the lineup by price, just like every company does, yadda yadda.

With regard to the 5D3 as some are mentioning, let's not forget it uses an older-type sensor, and apparently shadow lifting is a big deal (or it was until Canon caught up most of the way to the competition); that's a differentiator anyhow. Also, it rather depends how much of this camera is aimed at using up components from older models, which might bring down the production cost/increase the profit margin.


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

Rick said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > This is a question we receive multiple times every single day
> ...



This isn't CanonW.atch, dude. CR has an excellent track record, and though they may get 1-2 spec line items wrong or miss a punchy description of a key new feature, it won't be a train wreck of a prediction. I believe the spec list is largely accurate, and any surprise bad news on announcement day will be something not super high on the radar for the 6D camp (tethering, 1/8000 shutter, still no pop-up flash, etc.)

For those expressing skepticism at 45 AF points, I hear you (and share some skepticism), but consider that _a $749 Rebel just got 45 all cross-type AF points_. In the last gen of cameras, manufacturers must have some data showing that the number and quality of AF points consistently commands a higher price or moves more units, so they apparently have prioritized that in their next gens of camera bodies. So 45 points _may_ happen -- it may lack the 5D level's customization, tracking, or illuminated feedback, but the points may very well be there.

- A


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## jeanluc (Feb 22, 2017)

Anybody care to guess how a 5DSR update fits into things? I seem to remember word of a relatively 
quick upgrade to that body. If so, I bet that will also push 5d4 prices down a bit. So maybe the 6d2 will
start out at a good price point.


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

jeanluc said:


> Anybody care to guess how a 5DSR update fits into things? I seem to remember word of a relatively
> quick upgrade to that body. If so, I bet that will also push 5d4 prices down a bit. So maybe the 6d2 will
> start out at a good price point.



This has been speculated on a number of other threads. Canon has a fairly locked in schedule for the 1DX/5D/6D bodies in how each brand gets its own little spotlight for a few months, but the goal is to bang out the new wave of bodies in fairly close succession (say 12-18 months) and have a trickle down tech effect. 

And Canon never seems to speed up 'next' versions (at least not in the last 10 years or so), so expect that 4-5 year cycle time for a FF body.

But the 5DS was introduced mid-cycle of the 1DX/5D/6D stuff and that's both a blessing and a curse for Canon. There is some wisdom in fast-following a 5DS/5DS R next version to get it more in line parity/price/feature-wise with the 5D4. But there's also the thought that Canon doesn't want FF releases to only happen in two spurts over a 10 year span, and that the 5DS is some sort of 'interest refresher' in Canon as a more regular product releaser in the FF segment.

So I could see it either way: Canon pushes out the 5DS2 quickly after the 5D4 or they stick to their guns and it won't happen for years to maximize the first 5DS bodies' profitability. Your guess is as good as mine.

- A


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 22, 2017)

Single sd slot and no 4k? Without those two you could keep the rest of that list and have a great camera at a great price. Canon is smart enough to know that by keeping the 6d as an entry level camera at an entry level(FF entry level that is) price then people will get in the game and spend up on lenses.


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## glness (Feb 22, 2017)

This is certainly a relevant topic, but what I really want to additionally know is where is an update of the 5DSR and the 7D Mark II? I know Canon typically takes its own sweet time with updates, but they should be releasing the updates to the 7D II and 5DSR utilizing the new sensor technology ASAP.


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2017)

glness said:


> This is certainly a relevant topic, but what I really want to additionally know is where is an update of the 5DSR and the 7D Mark II? I know Canon typically takes its own sweet time with updates, but they should be releasing the updates to the 7D II and 5DSR utilizing the new sensor technology ASAP.



Everyone wants on-chip ADC and they simply will have to wait until the next release. I could see 5DS2 coming out for the reasons I mentioned in my prior message on this page, but a 7D3 will not be fast-tracked unless Canon has some ominous signs from the sales force that the D500 is earning nontrivial market share. (I've seen zero reporting on that actually happening so far, btw.)

Generational improvements -- even if just to keep parity with the competition : -- is not an entitlement in a market where the market leader has so many other vital advantages (lenses, reliability, ergonomics, track record, etc.). In other words, unless they are losing business because of something, Canon will hook us up with new hotness _when they feel like it_ and no sooner.

- A


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## kaptainkatsu (Feb 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > As far as a major firmware upgrade for the 5D IV goes, what could they add to the 5D IV and how then would that impact the 1D XII? Seems like a slippery slope to me.
> ...



Agreed. As a 1DX2 owner, I would still choose a 1DX2 over a 5D4. Plus the ergonomics of the 1DX2 IMO are superior to the 5D4+grip. And you don't get the M-Fn2 button which I think is a huge up sell if you are doing sports and fast moving shooting


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## slclick (Feb 22, 2017)

Please no 4k. The 4k 'need' is totally overhyped. Y'all don't have the know how, the means or the gear to support it. Y'all meaning the pleebs.
This camera needs to differentiate itself, not just be a little sibling. 

Realistic things it should have:

dual slots, what kind, I don't care
flippy screen
Low fps...really? you think it's a sports/wildlife body? Please.
Interchangeable focusing screen
Amazing low light performance
EV -3 or better
semi weather resistant
Joystick


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## LonelyBoy (Feb 22, 2017)

jc7222 said:


> Now trying to explain to a person moving up to FF that they have reduced AF points may be tricky.



Didn't Rebels have 19 points while the 6D had 11?


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 22, 2017)

ashanford their is a whole world outside of North America and in Europe the price differential between the 6D and the 5DMKIV is a gulf. In the UK its £ 3,499 for the 5D MKIV body, the 5DSr is £ 2,999 and the 5DS £ 2,799 dropping to £ 1,449 for the 6D body. Similar gaps exist in Europe but in Euros. 

Here is how I see it because too many people that may have considered the 5D MKIV are not going to drop £ 3,499 on a 5D MKIV body (roughly $ 4,100 US)

The Canon 6D aside from the sensor and 2AF points was essentially technology from the 5D MKII with wif-fi & gps thrown in. The cost to Canon was not a ground up fully fledged price and they had wriggle room which saw the price come down to attract people into FF and more expensive glass. 

The 6D MKII could be introduced at a higher price point The 6D is part metal body with weather sealing similar to the 80D, I do not see that changing and maybe getting better. With the specs. outlined Canon can keep the product differentiation from the 5D MKIV, improve the camera over the current 6D and leave room for a "rebel style" entry level FF camera and have a line that mirrors the 7D MKII, 80D and 77D in the 5DIV, 6D MKII & the 8D (Rebel entry level). 

The 1D series really is in a level of its own and not directly comparable. 

The Canon CEO talked about more variation but longer replacement cycles this would fit with that. Equally Canon puts the current 6D in the middle of its range of cameras not at the bottom as entry level so this still fits that criteria. 

If Canon intentionally cripple the AF when they have now at least two APS-C cameras below the 7D MKII with 45AF points then they will get a storm of protest, why provide it on crop but not on FF? your logic doesnt stack up. 
Many posts on Canon Rumors have suggested it should be a full-frame version of the 80D and I would agree and I doubt that those wanting the features in the 7D MKII were put off by the arrival of the 80D so why should the 6D vs the 5D MKIV be any different beacuse aside from build quality it has higher shutter life, mirror assembly improvements, AF tracking modes, intevalometer, joystick, the better metering system, more AF points all of which aid the still photographer (I dont shoot video and many of these features are on the 5DS I have). 

For a camera to retain value and remain in the market for 4-5 years your logic to me doesnt hold water.


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## IglooEater (Feb 22, 2017)

45 AF Points? That might very well be a buy for me. Especially if it's <2K. (Depending on how the CAD is doing...)
Personally I think iTR will be enough to differentiate the 5D IV.


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## Zv (Feb 23, 2017)

I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself. 

Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!


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## NancyP (Feb 23, 2017)

1. Improved sensor (I don't care as much about the pixel count) I like the current 6D, so better than that. No pattern noise, please.
2. Retain swappable screens, including a superfine screen for manual focus (as the current 6D does). I am a manual focus gal.
3. Tilt screen +/- touch focus in Live View. This is useful from a practical standpoint (kneel-point, lie-on-belly point) for ground level macro shooters.
The rest can go hang. I am pretty happy with my 6D, and see no need to upgrade unless sensor is significantly improved.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

Zv said:


> Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. *People are already slamming the rumored specs*. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!



Have you been reading this thread at all? If the rumored specs come to pass, _*we'd be delighted*_. 

I'm just saying Canon shouldn't offer _that much_ for $2k because it will likely steal 5D4 sales.

As for ex-US price considerations, I'm admittedly a novice. But the price gulf you describe exists in the US albeit with different values:

5D4 = $3499
6D1 (right now) = $1269

My argument is not the price, but the _value proposition_. A $2k 6D2 that can do (at least with stills) a solid 90% of what the 5D4 can do isn't going to solve that gulf. It will flip large groups of users downmarket, which makes no sense for a market leader unless they've found a way to build a 6D2 at a staggeringly low production cost.

I still contend that -- for this rumored spec list -- the price needs to be higher than $2k or something the 5D4 does that the 6D2 doesn't _that we haven't been talking about_ will surface eventually. My guess is it will be something fairly important that might protect the 5D4's asking price. No idea what the feature is, honestly, hence my intuition that they might be reaching for more than $2k at first asking.

- A


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## hbr (Feb 23, 2017)

Zv said:


> I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself.
> 
> Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!



I remember those days and since I was in the market for upgrading to a full frame camera but could not justify the 5D Mk III, I became very confused. The reviews, correctly I might add, were saying that this was a great camera, but it seemed that nearly everyone on this forum was bashing it. 

It seems to me that if Canon made the 6D II with the same specs as the 80D, (original price $1199 in the US), surely they could, for another $1000 or so, add a full frame sensor, bigger buffer, etc.


----------



## timmy_650 (Feb 23, 2017)

I think these specs look around right. If they go most lower than 45 point then it will have a hard time selling against the 5D3. There was a lot of talk about which camera you should buy then the 6D came out, it or the 5D2. The camera they listed makes it an easy choice. 
If these specs are true they might get me to upgrade 6 months after it comes out and I didn't think I would.


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## dak723 (Feb 23, 2017)

hbr said:


> I remember those days and since I was in the market for upgrading to a full frame camera but could not justify the 5D Mk III, I became very confused. The reviews, correctly I might add, were saying that this was a great camera, but it seemed that nearly everyone on this forum was bashing it.



One thing that you always need to keep in mind when on this forum is that the typical CR forum member is NOT the average camera user. I like to compare the folks here with the old "audiophiles" of the 1960s and 70s. They had to have the latest and greatest audio equipment, they studied and compared specs endlessly and then, rather than listen to and enjoy music, they analyzed every technical detail of the equipment. Sound familiar?

I consider myself a fairly typical photographer of 35 plus years. I want a camera that is reliable, gives me good color and contrast, is fun and easy to use. I need only one AF point, don't need any FPS (don't shoot action or wildlife), don't need 4K, would prefer 24MP or less. Sold my 6D, but would look into getting the 6D II if it is smaller and lighter and remains "entry level" in price.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

timmy_650 said:


> I think these specs look around right. If they go most lower than 45 point then it will have a hard time selling against the 5D3. There was a lot of talk about which camera you should buy then the 6D came out, it or the 5D2. The camera they listed makes it an easy choice.
> If these specs are true they might get me to upgrade 6 months after it comes out and I didn't think I would.



Again, I think the 5D3 is going poof after the 6D2 announcement. You can get a great deal on one in third party / eBay / used markets, but you won't get a warranty or expectation of that 'new car smell' to last that long, and you won't have that on-chip ADC hotness. I believe people will buy the 6D2 over the 5D3 at the same price, especially with these specs / especially with stills-only shooters.

- A


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## drob (Feb 23, 2017)

Any possibility of Canon releasing a STILLS only 6DMk2? No video capability what so ever...that would keep the price down and differentiate enough between the 5DMkIV.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

drob said:


> Any possibility of Canon releasing a STILLS only 6DMk2? No video capability what so ever...that would keep the price down and differentiate enough between the 5DMkIV.



DPAF + tilty-flippy + touchscreen helps for some percentage of stills depending on what you shoot. Not a must, but a very nice feature. Without a tilty-fllippy, try 'hitting and hoping' over a concert crowd for one night or lying on your belly to get really low to the ground for one day and the value of an articulating screen -- especially one you can touch to focus with -- becomes pretty clear. It's a really nice add.

But that pales in terms of the value those same features offer for video work, especially if you don't live and breathe video and shoot it all the time. DPAF + tilty-flippy + touchscreen = the ideal setup for the casual to enthusiast videographer who doesn't want/need a dedicated video rig, the photojournalist who covers stills and video, the b-cam at an event that can also record the speech / toast / first dance when no one gave you the heads up that you'd be asked to do that, etc.

Perhaps I'm not using my words well, but the triumvirate of DPAF + tilty-flippy + touchscreen = _nice_ for stills, but it's bordering on essential for video unless you're a wiz at manual video work. So the likelihood Canon puts those three features on a camera _without_ video capability is effectively zero.

- A


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## drob (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> drob said:
> 
> 
> > Any possibility of Canon releasing a STILLS only 6DMk2? No video capability what so ever...that would keep the price down and differentiate enough between the 5DMkIV.
> ...


Just trying to look at the scenarios/possibilities of Canon releasing the 6D2 at the 2K price point with appealing features but yet set back enough where it wouldn't eat into the 5DMk4 sales. Do many photographers use the 6D for video anyway? If it's crippled in anyway, I'd rather it be in the video functions. This could possibly coincide with an updated 4K codec for the 5DMk4... further setting the 2 apart.


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## ExodistPhotography (Feb 23, 2017)

> Canon EOS 6D Mark II Predicted Specifications
> 
> 24-28mp full frame CMOS


I am still saying 24MP for two reasons, one it keeps it from competing MP wise with the 5D4 and two despite it being FF, lower then 24MP would make many consumers that do not understand the difference between FF and Crop think its not as good of an sensor. So they have to keep it at least 24MP from a marketing stand point. Plus the Sony A7II is 24MP also.. 




> 45 AF points (all cross-type)
> Dual Pixel AF
> DIGIC 7
> Built-in Wi-Fi®, NFC and Bluetooth® technology


I would be shocked if any of these were not in the new camera.




> Built-in GPS


IDK about this one yet. It may make it, it may not. May actually come down to final manufacturing cost if it gets added or left out. 




> Vari-Angle touchscreen LCD


I want this. Many others want this.. But I want the same screen like is on the 80D. Not the M6. 
I honestly do not see a reason they cant make a alloy body that will fit the tilt flip screen. 




> 6 FPS Shooting
> HDR Movie & Time Lapse Movie


Very likely so. 6FPS maybe. Original was 4.5, so even 5FPS would technically still be an improvement with room to grow. But hope it is 6FPS. 




> Some form of 4K video


I hope so. But I do not want motion jpeg like the gimped 4k in the 5D4. They do not have to give us ALL-I with 4k. I will be glad to settle with IPB compression in a MP4 container. 




> Movie electronic image stabilization


Always a plus. But would like to see IBIS as an option for stills also. Even if that means reducing the MP count down to 18MP and cropped down to APS-H size when turned on. I know there are some cases were this would still be preferred over a blurry image..




> Dual SD card slots
> 100% coverage optical viewfinder with some new features


I do not see ANY reason Canon can not put dual SD card slots in the 6D2. Even Hasselblad's latest X1D mirrorless body has two SD card slots.. We do not need CF or XF anything else with this camera. But dual card slots is common in most of Nikons semi pro/ enthusiast bodies like the D7200. Personally I would be more then willing to give up GPS to be able to get a 2nd SD card slot..


Now all this said, there was talks about making the 6D2 body smaller. I personally would love to have it as the same size as the 80D. But I do not have long fingers. So the 80D and 70D also were perfect fits for me. Does make you wonder if they would put the 6D2 into a poly body like the 80D. I doubt it, but it does make you wonder. Personally I am still hoping for a alloy body.


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## -1 (Feb 23, 2017)

slclick said:


> Please no 4k. The 4k 'need' is totally overhyped. Y'all don't have the know how, the means or the gear to support it. Y'all meaning the pleebs.
> This camera needs to differentiate itself, not just be a little sibling.
> 
> Realistic things it should have:
> ...



Interesting points. I think that the a 6D2 should be D760 match for stills with high IQ ditto but not necessary a video tool except for that that you expect for decent home movies these days, including proper formats and fps! That should keep it from cannibalizing on the 5D4 and we would have a nice FF extra for travel and such.


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## rfdesigner (Feb 23, 2017)

We have near mint 5DIIIs going for ~£1600 at london camera exchange with some warranty. We also have the current 6D @ £1400 (~£1000 grey). When I was looking to purchase my 6D good 5DIIs were between then 6D and th eGrey 6D prices.

If the 6D2 does what the 6D did for canon, i.e. become a realistic alternative to second hand 5DIIs then the price cannot be much more than £1600, maybe £1800 tops, probably £1400 grey.

It also means a 6D2 will need an AF system on a par with the 5D3, so I'm in general agreement with most of the specs.

I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.

Could Canon keep making the original 6D?


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.
> 
> Could Canon keep making the original 6D?



Good question. Whereas the 6D2 all but certainly spells the end for the 5D3, I'm less sure about the 6D1. The 6D2 is such a feature set bump over the 6D1 that they almost sit in different market spaces. One could see a near-future (say 2018) in which the FF line is:

Budget: 6D1
Mid-level: 6D2
All-Purpose Pro: 5D4
High Res Pro: 5DS/R
Flagship: 1DX2

_But does Canon want those two red line items to coexist?_ I think they certainly could given how much better the 6D2 is spec'd to be, but perhaps Canon wants to take the 6D1 off the board to prevent a still-in-production $1000-1200 FF rig (albeit a dated one) from ever becoming a market expectation.

- A


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## -1 (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.
> ...



I think that's it reasonable to speculate that the cleaning lady is on her way. One digit D means one camera and that the 6D1 and 5DS/R are goners. The latter to be replaced by a more profitable 1DXS or 3DS.

There was talk about a new "name plate" in 2017 right?

http://www.canonrumors.com/eos-6d-mark-ii-new-dslr-body-in-2017/


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## Stuart (Feb 23, 2017)

Canon does not have to keep all their current lines running in parallel, they can merge lines together too. Maybe the 5D/S MK2 will be the new 5Dmk4. And then the 6D mk2 will really be the 5dMk5.
There probably need to be room in the product line up for a FF mirrorless offering too.

Also Will camera's like the Fujifilm GXR compete against the high end Canon models - Will canon also need a medium format offering (mirrorless) to keep leading the game.

Against all of this does a 6D mk2 still have a place?


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Good question. Whereas *the 6D2 all but certainly spells the end for the 5D3*, I'm less sure about the 6D1. The 6D2 is such a feature set bump over the 6D1 that they almost sit in different market spaces. One could see a near-future (say 2018) in which the FF line is:
> 
> Budget: 6D1
> Mid-level: 6D2
> ...


I think this explains why we hear so little about the 6D-II. In terms of product life-cycle management they would only introduce a direct competitor to their current product (5D-III) once stock levels of that current product reach a critical threshold, otherwise they'll leave warehouses and retailers with dead stock (difficult to sell).




rfdesigner said:


> I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.
> 
> Could Canon keep making the original 6D?


There is still a market for the 6D1 as the fighting grade product which can be heavily discounted vs newer products from competitors, while still being profitable to supply chain stakeholders


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## JohanCruyff (Feb 23, 2017)

As far as I know, Nikon used the same AF module (155 focus points of which 55 user-selectable) for both the APS-C D500 and for the Full Frame D5. They filled much better the D500 viewfinder than the D5's one, of course.

If Canon adopted the same 80D/77D AF module for the 6DII, anybody has an idea on how would the focus points spread in the viewfinder 6DII [considering the lower number of AF points (45 vs Nikon's 155)]?


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## JohanCruyff (Feb 23, 2017)

JohanCruyff said:


> As far as I know, Nikon used the same AF module (155 focus points of which 55 user-selectable) for both the APS-C D500 and for the Full Frame D5. They filled much better the D500 viewfinder than the D5's one, of course.
> 
> If Canon adopted the same 80D/77D AF module for the 6DII, anybody has an idea on how would the focus points spread in the viewfinder 6DII [considering the lower number of AF points (45 vs Nikon's 155)]?


I was a bit impatient and tried to merge two pictures according to my theory: the typical "FF to APS-C" frame plus the "80D coverage". Comparison included.


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## benkam (Feb 23, 2017)

I shoot APS-C but plan to get a full frame toward the end of this year. I'm looking at the 6D2 price range and so I'm closely watching this space and yes, those CR-predicted specs look very good.

What interests me a lot too is if Canon will also release their first mirrorless FF this year and if it will be based on much of the 6D2 specs, in a similar way that the M5 is with the 80D. So far the 6D2's looking good, rumors-wise, but I'm also intrigued with having an EVF and hopefully an optional mode for a completely silent shutter. I'll also consider the A7 III, Sony's 6D-equivalent not their pricier R version, that they're expected to also release this year.


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## Ladislav (Feb 23, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Predicted Specifications</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li>24-28mp full frame CMOS</li>
> <li>45 AF points (all cross-type)</li>
> ...



That would be nice and it is definitely "upmarket" move mentioned before because:
- 1AF cross point -> 45AF cross points (f/8 sensitivity???)
- 98% view finder -> 100% view finder
- Single SD -> Dual SD 
- 4.5fps -> 6fps
- 20Mp -> 24 or even 28MP

That would be very plausible and I wouldn't mind paying a bit more than £2k ($1=>£1 looks like a current conversion rate) for that. They can still nerf it a lot by firmware (eg. no bulb timer, no exposure compensation in auto iso, etc.), keep max shutter speed to 1/4000, flash sync to 1/180s, etc.

There will be still differences between 6DII and 5DIV. The build and AF joystick are big one. I also doubt 6D will get all the nice AF modes and groupings available in more action oriented camera. 

I don't care about video so they don't need to add it to 6DII at all and I will still be happy.


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## unfocused (Feb 23, 2017)

-1 said:


> There was talk about a new "name plate" in 2017 right?
> 
> http://www.canonrumors.com/eos-6d-mark-ii-new-dslr-body-in-2017/



The 77D is a new name plate.


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## hbr (Feb 23, 2017)

I am very curious to see who the intended market for the 6d II is for and only Canon knows the answer to this. I am not so sure that the idea of making the original 6D as an entry level Full Frame to lure enthusiasts up from the APS-C purchasers worked out well for Canon, (although it worked for me). The fly in the ointment was that the purchaser could not use his EF-S lenses on it and therefore would also need to upgrade his lenses and EF lenses are expensive. That is the problem I have when I try to get my friends to upgrade from their Rebels to Full Frame. I think the vast amount of purchasers of the original already had FF and EF lenses and were looking for a second body that was less expensive. Canon later stated that the next 6D was going upscale. 

Therefore, I am not so sure that the 6D series will remain a crippled 5D series. It all depends on how Canon now sees the future market for this fine camera.


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## slclick (Feb 23, 2017)

hbr said:


> I am very curious to see who the intended market for the 6d II is for and only Canon knows the answer to this. I am not so sure that the idea of making the original 6D as an entry level Full Frame to lure enthusiasts up from the APS-C purchasers worked out well for Canon, (although it worked for me). The fly in the ointment was that the purchaser could not use his EF-S lenses on it and therefore would also need to upgrade his lenses and EF lenses are expensive. That is the problem I have when I try to get my friends to upgrade from their Rebels to Full Frame. I think the vast amount of purchasers of the original already had FF and EF lenses and were looking for a second body that was less expensive. Canon later stated that the next 6D was going upscale.
> 
> Therefore, I am not so sure that the 6D series will remain a crippled 5D series. It all depends on how Canon now sees the future market for this fine camera.



Please stop using that word ...(cripple) It's ridiculous. I could go into ANY other industry for analogies, so remember, when you have price points you must have differentiation in feature sets.


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## hbr (Feb 23, 2017)

slclick said:


> hbr said:
> 
> 
> > I am very curious to see who the intended market for the 6d II is for and only Canon knows the answer to this. I am not so sure that the idea of making the original 6D as an entry level Full Frame to lure enthusiasts up from the APS-C purchasers worked out well for Canon, (although it worked for me). The fly in the ointment was that the purchaser could not use his EF-S lenses on it and therefore would also need to upgrade his lenses and EF lenses are expensive. That is the problem I have when I try to get my friends to upgrade from their Rebels to Full Frame. I think the vast amount of purchasers of the original already had FF and EF lenses and were looking for a second body that was less expensive. Canon later stated that the next 6D was going upscale.
> ...



I agree with you 100%. I hate that word too. I was actually knocking the notion that Canon cripples their cameras. I probably should have put that word in quotes.


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## Mancubus (Feb 23, 2017)

ExodistPhotography said:


> > Dual SD card slots
> > 100% coverage optical viewfinder with some new features
> 
> 
> I do not see ANY reason Canon can not put dual SD card slots in the 6D2. Even Hasselblad's latest X1D mirrorless body has two SD card slots.. We do not need CF or XF anything else with this camera. But dual card slots is common in most of Nikons semi pro/ enthusiast bodies like the D7200. Personally I would be more then willing to give up GPS to be able to get a 2nd SD card slot..



They won't (I think). Put a 2nd card slot and it becomes a truly professional usable camera, which would make guys like me save $1500 and buy it instead of the 5D4.

For now I'm still keeping my 5D3, but if the 6D2 turns out to be a good camera with dual slot I wouldn't even think of buying the 5D4.


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## hbr (Feb 23, 2017)

A couple of thoughts here. 

1) Canon has a lot of patents out there and has a history of introducing new features on whatever camera model they happen to be coming out with at the time. They don't always save them for their flagship models. We might have some nice surprises with the 6D II.

2) The rumored specs are looking great to me. i am no longer of the belief that the 6D II will be an entry level Full Frame. I think Canon has slightly shifted the targeted market from the original purchaser and will not be a threat to the 5D IV. Canon will most likely target the 5D IV owner that wants a less expensive second body and those, like me, that currently own the 6D and want to upgrade to better specs.


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## slclick (Feb 23, 2017)

hbr said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > hbr said:
> ...



Cool, look I didn't mean to come across as a jerk but that word.... Have great day!


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 23, 2017)

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType


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## Zv (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. *People are already slamming the rumored specs*. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!
> ...



Maybe not this particular thread but I can just tell from experience anytime there are specs listed there is a flurry of lament from a bunch of haters who somehow insist on having the specs of the 1DXII (plus more since it's a "new" camera") in the body of a 6D at the price of a rebel. 

It's rare to hear people actually saying "these specs are awesome for this price range!!" I guess I've just become accustomed to the bashing. 

I'm generally a positive kinda person these days (never used to be admittedly!) but I think after a while you realize there's more to life? than a spec sheet. 

Camera works? Great. Let's take some pictures. 

It's all about IQ in the end and no one can really doubt that the 6DII will be better than the 6D so everything else is largely irrelevant IMO.


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## neonlight (Feb 23, 2017)

For me, I'd want the 45 focus points, tilty-flippy and two SD card slots (not a CF). What put me off 6D1 was the incompatible AF on f/8. Some of us have to put up with smaller aperture lenses, so f/8 on several (more than one) focus points would be good. 6D2 should be a 7DII equivalent full frame but less fps would be fine for most of us, and only one processor that is not so battery hungry on normal shooting.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.
> ...



When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.


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## hbr (Feb 23, 2017)

neonlight said:


> What put me off 6D1 was the incompatible AF on f/8. Some of us have to put up with smaller aperture lenses, so f/8 on several (more than one) focus points would be good.



Agreed. I purchased the 400mm f/5.6 to capture images of all the birds in my back yard and was so disappointed that the 6D would not auto focus when I used the lens with a 1.4 TC. I ended up buying a 7D II solely for that reason. I love the 7D II but the image quality is not the same as the 6D.

The auto focus system was the major limitation of the 6D.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.



Correct. I posted the same on page 1 of this thread, Neuro.

The question is: do both the 6D1 and 5D3 get discontinued after the 6D2 is released, or will the 6D1 live on?

- A


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## slclick (Feb 23, 2017)

I really hope the changes to the 6D line are small. Small but effective. 
I disagree that it needs to be a 7D2 equivalent in a FF. It is what it is. It is not an action,high fps, great tracking, must work with all lenses product. 
It should stay in the market where it started. Entry level FF, low light leader, solid, smaller than the rest of the FF lines, a good feature set but nothing too extravagant. Great menus and easy to configure for stills and minor video work. No 4k. Not too many af points.
Keep the launch price at $1999 USD and continue the momentum the 6D had.


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## hbr (Feb 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > rfdesigner said:
> ...



I would love for Canon to keep the original 6D around as the entry level FF, but I doubt if they will.


----------



## Don Haines (Feb 23, 2017)

hbr said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


keep in mind that Canon is shutting down the fabrication line that made the old sensors and going with newer (finer) lithography..... the old parts are just not going to be available....


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## bereninga (Feb 23, 2017)

StudentOfLight said:


> To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType



This sounds about right, but I still think it'll be a 19-point all cross-type AF system (but at least it'll have DPAF). When the 6D came out, its AF system was indeed lower than the t4i, which was released before the 6D. The t4i had 9 all cross-type vs the 6D, which only had ONE cross-type (facepalm).

I think the 6D was aimed at the photographers who did landscape, low-light/astro, prosumer market aka folks who didn't need a super AF system.

Canon's success w/ the 6D might've been very unexpected and now they're being extra careful on its release of the 6DII.

This site is very accurate on its rumored spec list, so if this list were to be true (with 45 or 41 AF points), I think the 6DII price will be > $2k. I imagine something around $2400. The 6D was introduced at $2100 and it was rumored to move upmarket and it'll replace the 5DIII spot in Canon's lineup.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.
> ...



My bet is that they both go.


----------



## rfdesigner (Feb 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



but could there be a seperate 6D1 replacement.

So 5DIV = new
5DIII => 6D2
5DII => 6D => ??

could they do an 8D?

is this where a mirrorless FF would fit?


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 23, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> but could there be a seperate 6D1 replacement.
> 
> So 5DIV = new
> 5DIII => 6D2
> ...



5DIII => 5DIV
6D => 6DII

The 5DII => 6D was basically a one-off, because the 6D was a new addition to the lineup. 

I expect a mirrorless FF would initially be at the same level as the 6D, just as the initial EOS M was spec'd like a Rebel/xxxD. Now, with the M5 we have an xxD-type MILC, and similarly a few years after an entry-level FF MILC, Canon would bring a 5-series type MILC.


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## hbr (Feb 23, 2017)

bereninga said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType
> ...



Agreed about the type of photographers the 6D was targeted at but interestingly many wedding photographers purchased it as a second body. I don't think Canon counted on that. For them that is where the 11 point AF system was inadequate. I would not complain about a 19 point system as long as the points covered enough of the frame to have some leeway in composing the picture. The 7D II's AF system is a totally different animal and is not needed on the 6D II but I also wouldn't complain if Canon compromised and went with the 80D's system. After all, $2000 or so is still a lot of money and Canon would need to have some quite serious upgrades if they expect people to shell out that much money while the original is still around and is still a great camera. Plus they need to take into account what the competition will do over the next 5 years.



StudentOfLight said:


> This site is very accurate on its rumored spec list, so if this list were to be true (with 45 or 41 AF points), I think the 6DII price will be > $2k. I imagine something around $2400. The 6D was introduced at $2100 and it was rumored to move upmarket and it'll replace the 5DIII spot in Canon's lineup.



Canon has done a pretty good job so far at keeping the initial price near to the original price of the camera it is replacing.

The suspense builds.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> 5DIII => 5DIV
> 6D => 6DII
> 
> The 5DII => 6D was basically a one-off, because the 6D was a new addition to the lineup.
> ...



+1 on the what replaced what above. Agree with Neuro here. The 5D2 --> 6D transition was a one-off that represented an expansion to the FF lineup. 

+0.5 on the mirrorless FF. Tech-level-wise, I agree (but perhaps more like the 6D*2* at this point). But price-wise I think they'll be silly (esp. if they beat Nikon to market) and go after premium dollars as the 'first' mirrorless offering with access to one of the two great FF lens ecosystems.

So I could see Canon idiotically asking for $2499-2999 for a mirrorless clone of a $2000 rig if it was super sexy somehow (added tech, exclusive viewfinder hotness, 'pretty' design :, etc.)

- A


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## scrup (Feb 23, 2017)

Would be surprised if they put 4k and dual slots. The rest of the specs look plausible for a 2k price tag.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > 5DIII => 5DIV
> ...



Agree on 6DII-like, I should have stated it as 6-series type MILC.

Not so sure that Canon will be 'silly' on price. The EOS M was basically a mirrorless T4i, and launched at about the same price as a T4i (and while it didn't sell well at that price in North America, it did very will in Asia). The M5 is pretty much a mirrorless 80D, and it costs less than the 80D.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not so sure that Canon will be 'silly' on price. The EOS M was basically a mirrorless T4i, and launched at about the same price as a T4i (and while it didn't sell well at that price in North America, it did very will in Asia). The M5 is pretty much a mirrorless 80D, and it costs less than the 80D.



Indeed, I thought for a bit on the above facts before I posted my prior claim. But I feel that FF is a little different in that...

[list type=decimal]
[*]Canon was effectively last to the CX/m43/APS-C mirrorless party with EOS M and could not chase premium dollars with (candidly) pedestrian/reliable specs in a market full of beefier spec'd options. FF mirrorless is a bit different in that only Sony plays in this space (yes, I'm disregarding Leica) and Canon has had better luck arguing for a brand premium against them.


[*]There is something 'big', momentous, etc. about the first FF mirrorless from Nikon or Canon given the trapped advantage they have of such rich lens portfolios that can't truly be unlocked with third party adaptors. I could see Canon trying to exploit that somewhat.


[*]Unlike EOS M, in which existing Canonites slowly opted in as the feature-set evolved and AF speed improved, I could see a properly spec'd 'EOS FF M' being a formidable rig based on proven tech with exceptionally high day one confidence -- that means a lot of existing FF users might go in strong on day one. In a sense, it might be the droid second FF body you are looking for and drive a 'tiny travel body / b-cam' lust factor that might warrant a premium.



[*]If Canon 'goes thin' with the mount as we've discussed (as one of two more-likely-than-not possibilities with the mount), there's a chance Canon goes all sexy/sleek/small with the design to chase the enthusiast vote. They _might_ get greedy and ask for more for that. (*Update*: I still contend they might go with a fixed FF mirrorless offering and chase RX1 and Leica Q dollars for that crowd. I always leave that comment out, and the yes/no of offering such a rig would certainly drive Canon's 'premium vs. reasonable' FF mirrorless pricing strategy.)
[/list]

I'm rambling, no doubt, but I just have a gut feeling Canon will reach for more dollars if they go to market before others. But if Nikon (or who knows, Fuji/Olympus/Panasonic/Pentax might get crazy and get in on FF mirrorless) gets there first, I could see Canon FF mirrorless downshifting to the sensible pricing of the SLR framework they are based on.

- A


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## Maiaibing (Feb 23, 2017)

StudentOfLight said:


> To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType


Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType
> ...



+1. I do this with my 5D3 as well, which has never let me down. (In fairness, I almost never shoot BiF / sports / action so I don't push my AF nearly as hard as others do here.)

- A


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## rfdesigner (Feb 23, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> hbr said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



which begs the question, how much stock?.. it's usually cost effective and simple to keep an old line busy right up to closing day churning out a maximum number of wafers.


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## magarity (Feb 23, 2017)

I'm happy for everyone who gets the new model when it comes out but my version 1 is only 2 years old and as a non-pro I (1) can't justify the expense and (2) have enough fun with the capabilities I already got.


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## Sharlin (Feb 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.
> ...



As an aside, does anyone care to speculate why Canon's newest and greatest flagship PDAF system is not all cross-type? Specifically given that the 7D2 65-point sensor is... And the 80D 45-point system too, of course. Why didn't they move to a 7D2-like sensor in the 1D2 and the 5D4?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 23, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...


I believe that the very steep angle of the light makes it difficult to cross-tipe AF points, when far away from the full frame center.


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## Mikehit (Feb 23, 2017)

The 5DIV is an expensive beast and my guess is there are a lot of people not upgrading who would have done so in previous generations. Which is odd in some ways when you consider the launch price of the 5DIV is about the same as the launch price of the 5DIII 5 years ago (people too often comapre to the current street price which is unrealistic)

But what features would make someone think 'wow, the 5D4 is a better camera for my way of shooting so I will get that instead of the 6D2'.
My guess is:
build and weather sealing. Someone who needs a robust camera wants it to feel robust and is unlikely to go to a lesser-sealed camera
An inferior AF system - the 80D is very similar to the AF of the 7D2, but just not quite as adaptable. So in a similar way, even if the 6D2 has 45 points and _looks_ similar to the 5DIV , as long as the processor allocation and power allocation and the number of pixels on the AF sensor is not quite the same standard as the 5DIV it certainly won't perform as well and if the options on AF modes is slightly less that will be enough to differentiate it
Viewfinder - if it is not quite as big and bright as the 5DIV it will (psychologically at least) impact its impression
Custom modes
The inner wheel dial instead of a joystick (the joystick is so much better)

I am sure there are a few others that would on spec be impressive but when reviews come out it will be things like this that create a price difference. And in many ways, if someone would be willing to accept these compromises, would they be likely to buy a 5DIV in the first place - if the answer is 'no' then no cannibilisation of the 5DIV sales has occurred.


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## eguzowski (Feb 24, 2017)

I'd sell my 5D Mark III's and buy 3 6D's if those specs hold true...I shoot photo and video (video I use three cameras and the "A" camera needs to shoot 4k with a non-work heavy codec... I'd probably buy 2 of them and have my "A" camera be a panasonic GH5 because the 4k codec is nice and it doesn't have a 30 minute time limit...just use "neat" noise reduction plug-in for final cut pro...note 80% of my work is still photography but video is essential in boosting business (multi-cam edits always!). www.ExhalePhotoJournalism.com


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 24, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType
> ...


Yes, of course. I do too. (I want reliable AF performance) 
but my point was they can effectively differentiate without spending additional R&D to develop a new system. The result would be that on a spec sheet it would says one camera has 61pt and the other 41pt. Differentiation complete.

I mean why develop a weaker all-new AF system for a lower end body? That R&D would be put to better use on *L*enses.


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## ExodistPhotography (Feb 24, 2017)

StudentOfLight said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



I completely agree. It would be simple and economical and no real extra cost to the company. While still being strong specs for marketing.


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## heretikeen (Feb 24, 2017)

Zv said:


> I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself.
> 
> Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!



I think you might have misunderstood the thread so far.
People aren't slamming the specs, they are pointing out it's extremely unlikely for the specs to be this good.


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## slclick (Feb 24, 2017)

heretikeen said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself.
> ...



I view this point as the specs are not as so much being disregarded as how forums operate...how people judge a bit too early....how it's far easier for many to be negative than optimistic. It really is a common SOP here attitude wise and Canon sales wise.

Announcement = disdain. Time + experience = praise.

fwiw, this thread is not about specs per se...it is about 'where and when'..check title.


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## Sharlin (Feb 24, 2017)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > As an aside, does anyone care to speculate why Canon's newest and greatest flagship PDAF system is not all cross-type? Specifically given that the 7D2 65-point sensor is... And the 80D 45-point system too, of course. Why didn't they move to a 7D2-like sensor in the 1D2 and the 5D4?
> ...



But full-frame and APS-C AF sensors are physically approximately the same size - the AF point coverage relative to the image circle is much smaller in full frame than in APS-C. So vignetting should be an equal problem in both cases. Plus some of the non-cross-type points in the 61pt sensor are pretty close to the center.

I guess one explanation is that the 61pt sensor has other advantages (perhaps easier to upgrade to all f/8 points?) but its geometry makes it difficult to add the missing vertical sensors. So a compromise.


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## Fatalv (Feb 24, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> ...
> 
> And in many ways, if someone would be willing to accept these compromises, would they be likely to buy a 5DIV in the first place - if the answer is 'no' then no cannibilisation of the 5DIV sales has occurred.



Agreed. I feel I fall into your above category. 

I'm quite happy with my 5DMK3 and didn't upgrade to the MK4. However, I've been looking to swap out my 7D backup body with something that would get used more often. I feel this rumored 6D could fit the bill nicely.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 24, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...


When there are many AF points, they become quite close to each other, lacking physical space for "cross type" in all of them.


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## Zv (Feb 24, 2017)

slclick said:


> heretikeen said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



Ah! Fair point, my apologies I must admit I had been coming back from the pub when I wrote that and I seemed to have rambled on a bit! My initial reaction whenever I see specs listed is to immediately go in "oh here we go again with the 4K" mode! 

But back to the topic -

I guess a lot of folk, like myself, are hoping that the 6DII retains the affordable FF label that the original is known and loved for. The 5DIII still feels like overkill for my needs. The specs listed in this rumor do sound a bit far fetched now I think about it.


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## slclick (Feb 24, 2017)

Zv said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > heretikeen said:
> ...



+1 and because we all know Canon's MO those specs will most likely be over the top and we'll get a sensible body for a good price.


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## glness (Feb 24, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> glness said:
> 
> 
> > This is certainly a relevant topic, but what I really want to additionally know is where is an update of the 5DSR and the 7D Mark II? I know Canon typically takes its own sweet time with updates, but they should be releasing the updates to the 7D II and 5DSR utilizing the new sensor technology ASAP.
> ...



I surmise you are right about Canon taking their time with 5DSR II and 7D III. However, I have both the 5D IV and the 5DSR, and I find myself now reaching for the 5D IV a lot more than the 5DSR. Yes, I would like to have 20 more MP for my image, but that new on-chip ADC sensor in the 5D IV is really an improvement over the older sensor technology of the 5DSR. I think 5DS/5DSR sales will begin to dry up until they make improvements to bring that sensor up to date. If Canon thinks otherwise, it will probably be awhile until we have an update for the 5DSR and 7D II.


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## ahsanford (Feb 24, 2017)

glness said:


> I surmise you are right about Canon taking their time with 5DSR II and 7D III. However, I have both the 5D IV and the 5DSR, and I find myself now reaching for the 5D IV a lot more than the 5DSR. Yes, I would like to have 20 more MP for my image, but that new on-chip ADC sensor in the 5D IV is really an improvement over the older sensor technology of the 5DSR. I think 5DS/5DSR sales will begin to dry up until they make improvements to bring that sensor up to date. If Canon thinks otherwise, it will probably be awhile until we have an update for the 5DSR and 7D II.



Depends on which 5DS user you are talking about above.

If you are referring to the rabid enthusiasts who were screaming for on-chip ADC and sensor scores all these years, perhaps. They seemingly want all the best tech in one product at one point in time, like when the A7R II dropped -- that rig seemingly had everything for them. There are unreasonable folks who want that D810/A7R II cosmic stardust sensor that is simultaneously great for detail *and* great in high ISO; they want the best tech across the board and the 5DS is (I suppose) lacking at present vs. what the 1DX2/5D4 rigs have recently been given.

But if you are referring to the people the 5DS _was actually designed for_ -- detail obsessives prepared to work in a studio or on a tripod to get the most out of the camera -- they likely won't belly ache about not having DPAF or the latest sensor tech and just keep happily snapping away. A studio / product / landscape photographer isn't going to give up _20 MP_ for +1 stop of base ISO DR the 5D4 offers.

- A


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## ahsanford (Feb 24, 2017)

slclick said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > But back to the topic -
> ...



I'm not convinced this will happen -- with 1-2 exceptions, this list of specs is on-target, IMHO. Consider:


Affordable depends on your memory. Looking back wistfully at _today's_ wonderful $1269 6D asking price is an unrealistic expectation -- Canon released it at $2099, and they certainly don't want to give up that neighborhood of price with the next version. So the specs naturally need to step up to demand that price.


Canon told us their intentions here (either directly or presumably by leaking rumors): how many times did they state they wanted to "move the 6D brand upmarket"? :



Since Canon and Nikon got into the 'entry FF SLR' market, the A7 brand has been much more fully fleshed out and Pentax is in the ring with a D810-like setup with a houseload of tech for $1,800. And lest we forget, the Nikon D610 follow-up is certainly coming. With Canon's oft-discussed reluctance to match competitive value propositions due to its brand/lens strength, they don't need to _match_ the competition, but it certainly can't just rinse and repeat a '10% better' Mk II rig in this segment like they may have done elsewhere.



The 6D-level market is shaping up to be a _very_ popular segment -- FF performance at a non-pro-rig price turned out to be popular idea, _who knew?_ I see it with (some) pros at weddings. I see it with enthusiasts who are elated to walk up to FF without needing a loan. I see it with well-heeled amateurs who used to shoot film and miss the 35mm format. I consider the segment pretty damn important as new folks to FF may very well entertain a system/mount change. So Canon can't be considered a 'me, too' in this segment.

So as much as I think this spec list is _slightly_ overcooked (AF/fps in particular) and at a presumed $2k asking price it will surely corrode 5D4 sales, I think it's much more right than wrong given (a) where Canon wants to define the 6D line in the market and (b) the glut of new offerings it must compete against.

- A


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## Famateur (Feb 24, 2017)

Disclaimer: I read the first few pages, then was away for awhile and haven't caught back up, so forgive me if this has been covered...

I've been thinking about cannibalization of the 5DIV if the 6DII goes upmarket. It's true that some would choose the 6DII instead of the 5DIV because it will meet their needs and cost less. Some of those might even be pros. That would be cannibalization.

But.

Most pros don't just operate with one camera body.


Would a more upmarket 6DII that still costs less than a 5DIV be attractive as a worthy backup/second to a pro who primarily shoots a 5DIV?
Would an emerging pro who would otherwise (reluctantly) buy a _single _5DIV instead choose _two _6DII's?

Both of these scenarios seem likely to occur at some level. The question Canon has to answer is, will they occur enough to truly offset cannibalization of the 5DIV? We'll know Canon's guess when we see what's announced...

Thoughts on these "second body" wonderings? Anyone here considering an upmarket 6DII as a second body to their 5DIII/IV?


----------



## ahsanford (Feb 24, 2017)

Famateur said:


> Disclaimer: I read the first few pages, then was away for awhile and haven't caught back up, so forgive me if this has been covered...
> 
> I've been thinking about cannibalization of the 5DIV if the 6DII goes upmarket. It's true that some would choose the 6DII instead of the 5DIV because it will meet their needs and cost less. Some of those might even be pros. That would be cannibalization.
> 
> ...



I've been harping on single or 'their next best' camera purchasers with my '6D2 cannibalizing 5D4' talk, but yes, it could affect pros with numerous bodies as well:


I often see pros working events/weddings with a 1D or 5D primary body and a 6D secondary body. If the 6D1 is 'pro' enough for them, surely a 6D2 with a lot more tech will be as well. (It's not like they are doubling the price or taking something away from the 6D1. so I expect this trend to continue.)


In the two body scenario I just listed above, if your primary cam is dialed in for stills, your b-cam might be doing the lion's share of the impromptu video work. Unless you need 4k or a specific higher-end video option (in which case even a 5D4 might not cut it :), one might imagine the 6D2's tilty-flippy might win out over the 5D4's fixed screen for that need.



Just look at the value proposition I shared on page 1 of this thread -- compare and contrast:

*5D4: 30 MP / 7 fps / 61 AF points / dual cards / many f/8 points for T/C use / stellar build quality / fixed LCD --> $3499 initial asking (might come down some)

6D2: 24-28 MP / 6 fps / 45 AF points / dual cards / many f/8 points for T/C use (presumed) / good build quality / tilty-flippy LCD --> $2k?*

Yes, unless you need the pro build or great tracking AF, yes, I absoutely could see some pros go 2x in on a 6D2 rather than one 5D4. (The math's not quite 2:1 of course, but the value proposition argument above is fair.) 

That said, some people buy more rugged / full-featured gear and that's that, and the 5D line much more comprehensively ticks those boxes. I'm not for a moment going to say that the 5D4 sales will tank for a $2k 6D2 offered with these rumored specs. But to every Canon customer, the 6D2 would be a very solid alternative to the 5D4 and I think many types of photographers -- pros with multiple bodies included -- will avail themselves of that option.

- A


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## ExodistPhotography (Feb 24, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ..........
> 
> 
> Just look at the value proposition I shared on page 1 of this thread -- compare and contrast:
> ...



Very true. 

With Canon rumored to make the body smaller and also add the VA Flip screen. Wonder if it may actually become a poly body like the 80D to further seperate it from the 5D line. I highly doubt it, but who knows.


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## Sharlin (Feb 24, 2017)

ExodistPhotography said:


> With Canon rumored to make the body smaller and also add the VA Flip screen. Wonder if it may actually become a poly body like the 80D to further seperate it from the 5D line. I highly doubt it, but who knows.



It seems like a reasonable thing to do, the 6D shell is already half metal, half plastic. For most people the only difference between a mag alloy and polycarbonate body is the mental image. OTOH if they do move the 6D2 upmarket then maybe not after all.


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## Sharlin (Feb 24, 2017)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> When there are many AF points, they become quite close to each other, lacking physical space for "cross type" in all of them.



Yeah, that's the geometry argument I alluded to. In the sensor photo it can be seen quite clearly why the leftmost and righmost columns of the peripheral groups only have horizontal-sensitive coverage. But see the 7D2 sensor layout which is a bit different:


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 24, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > When there are many AF points, they become quite close to each other, lacking physical space for "cross type" in all of them.
> ...





I particularly prefer 45 AF points, all of them cross type, rather than a hundred common (non cross type) points.


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## rfdesigner (Feb 24, 2017)

Famateur said:


> Disclaimer: I read the first few pages, then was away for awhile and haven't caught back up, so forgive me if this has been covered...
> 
> I've been thinking about cannibalization of the 5DIV if the 6DII goes upmarket. It's true that some would choose the 6DII instead of the 5DIV because it will meet their needs and cost less. Some of those might even be pros. That would be cannibalization.
> 
> ...



In Europe the 6D only qualifies towards CPS silver membership, for anything more you need 2x 5D or 1D

I think my kit would might qualify in the states where it seems to be done on points and two of my lenses count, but here I get nothing.

I wonder if that keeps their 5D/1D market up here or if it means photogs hang onto 5DIIs rather than upgrading to 6Ds?

https://cps.canon-europe.com/


----------



## slclick (Feb 24, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Disclaimer: I read the first few pages, then was away for awhile and haven't caught back up, so forgive me if this has been covered...
> ...



I do not think I would make a purchase based upon CPS status. YMMV


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## hubie (Feb 26, 2017)

timmy_650 said:


> I think these specs look around right. If they go most lower than 45 point then it will have a hard time selling against the 5D3. There was a lot of talk about which camera you should buy then the 6D came out, it or the 5D2. The camera they listed makes it an easy choice.
> If these specs are true they might get me to upgrade 6 months after it comes out and I didn't think I would.



Nonsense in my eyes. Cameras are about image quality in the first place, and the 5d mk iii already falls behind the 6D in most of the times... even a 19 point AF like in the 70D would be more than enough to take photos of everything you want.


----------



## IglooEater (Feb 26, 2017)

hubie said:


> timmy_650 said:
> 
> 
> > I think these specs look around right. If they go most lower than 45 point then it will have a hard time selling against the 5D3. There was a lot of talk about which camera you should buy then the 6D came out, it or the 5D2. The camera they listed makes it an easy choice.
> ...



By that logic the 1DX had nothing over the 6D. I don't think you mean that. More AF points do make certain tasks much easier, especially sports and wildlife, where keeping an AF point on target while tracking is paramount.

Cameras are all about actually creating the image you want. IQ is only a part of that. 

Of course, the 19 point 70D is not rubbish, but there's no question the 7D II's AF system will have the clear edge in certain applications. I think folks are hoping for more than 19 to make the new 6D an more versatile all-rounder.


----------



## hubie (Feb 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> glness said:
> 
> 
> > I surmise you are right about Canon taking their time with 5DSR II and 7D III. However, I have both the 5D IV and the 5DSR, and I find myself now reaching for the 5D IV a lot more than the 5DSR. Yes, I would like to have 20 more MP for my image, but that new on-chip ADC sensor in the 5D IV is really an improvement over the older sensor technology of the 5DSR. I think 5DS/5DSR sales will begin to dry up until they make improvements to bring that sensor up to date. If Canon thinks otherwise, it will probably be awhile until we have an update for the 5DSR and 7D II.
> ...



50 MP to me seems like having a choice. Without having shot at such high MPs, I imagine reducing the MP count by 2/5 down to 30 MP would also reduce noise effects and giving you a better noise performance a the cost of a loss in resolution...



IglooEater said:


> hubie said:
> 
> 
> > timmy_650 said:
> ...



I get that, but I doubt that a 6D mk II which might be less expensive than a 5D mk III will sell less against a 5D mk III just because of the AF... The 5D mk III focus system is quite capable, but I can think of only very rare occasions where this might give you an image that you can't get with a 6D mk II, probably. We are not talking about fps here, just about AF capabilities. And if you take the rest in, the 6D would just be an overall better performer with a much more advanced processor making that AF to be on a same level, except coverage probably.

Take in other factors like lenses, they are much more prone to give you bad results than a body with a modern AF system where there are "just" 50% of the cross-type points available.
If you are dependant on getting that image, you will take the 5D mk IV or 1DX mk II anyway, and not an aged 5D mk III (except you might shoot one for a bargin).


----------



## ExodistPhotography (Feb 26, 2017)

hubie said:


> 50 MP to me seems like having a choice. Without having shot at such high MPs, I imagine reducing the MP count by 2/5 down to 30 MP would also reduce noise effects and giving you a better noise performance a the cost of a loss in resolution...


Those who use those cameras (5DS & 5DSR) normally have the ISO locked in on 100 or perhaps in extreme cases 400. High ISO, who cares. These are not sports or wildlife cameras. Whats important to those shooters is extreme detail. 




> I get that, but I doubt that a 6D mk II which might be less expensive than a 5D mk III will sell less against a 5D mk III just because of the AF... The 5D mk III focus system is quite capable, but I can think of only very rare occasions where this might give you an image that you can't get with a 6D mk II, probably. We are not talking about fps here, just about AF capabilities. And if you take the rest in, the 6D would just be an overall better performer with a much more advanced processor making that AF to be on a same level, except coverage probably.
> 
> Take in other factors like lenses, they are much more prone to give you bad results than a body with a modern AF system where there are "just" 50% of the cross-type points available.
> If you are dependant on getting that image, you will take the 5D mk IV or 1DX mk II anyway, and not an aged 5D mk III (except you might shoot one for a bargin).



I am not sure why everyone keeps on about the 5DII and 5DIII. Those are older models and the 5DII is not even sold by Canon anymore. The 5DIII is on its way out the door as well. Before the 6DII us released they will stop production of the 5DIII (if not sooner) as the 6DII will fill that lower end gap. At the same note, before the 6DII is released. Canon will stop production of the 6D. That way they can reduce their stock of the existing cameras instead of cutting a huge loss. 

So soon there will only be a 5DS(R), 5DIV and 6DII.. 4 cameras that fit the needs and budgets. But honestly I feel they may even drop the 5DS and just keep the 5DSR around. Its been a much bigger seller then the 5DS anyway.

The 19pt AF is OLD tech from original 7D. It was good and worked great in the 70D. But its not a fit for the much larger full frame sensor. The current 6D does have 11pt. But its outdated also. They will most likely put something in much like the 80Ds AF points, but upscaled for full frame. 

As far as pricing. Forget the price of the 6D now. When it originally came out it was $2099 Body Only..
The new 6DII will very likely be within $100USD of that price, give or take.


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## ahsanford (Feb 26, 2017)

ExodistPhotography said:


> Those who use those cameras (5DS & 5DSR) normally have the ISO locked in on 100 or perhaps in extreme cases 400. High ISO, who cares. These are not sports or wildlife cameras. Whats important to those shooters is extreme detail.



Respectfully disagree. _That's what we all thought_ when the camera was announced: "If they still haven't gone to on-chip ADC or illuminating the sensor, jamming 50 MP into the sensor will drive spectacular noise levels. Therefore, it will be a studio or tripod camera used only at very low ISO." (Goodness knows I said all that myself when it was announced.)

Turns out that's not the case at all. Most reviewers describe the 5DS as a very fair noise competitor to the 5D3 _once you downsample to the 5D3's 22 MP_. That's not a cheat or a magic trick -- think of it as the camera needing to downshift to manage a steeper hill climb.

In other words, the 5DS / 5DS is _both_...


...a high detail rig from base ISO to some middle ISO level (800-1600 depending on how picky you are), *and*
...a 5D3 at high ISO levels

In other words, downsampling (loosely) prevents high ISO performance from falling off a cliff. 

Once you consider the 5DS / 5DS R in _*that *_light, it's a far more capable camera than we thought it would be when it was first announced.

- A


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## ahsanford (Feb 26, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> hubie said:
> 
> 
> > Nonsense in my eyes. Cameras are about image quality in the first place, and the 5d mk iii already falls behind the 6D in most of the times... even a 19 point AF like in the 70D would be more than enough to take photos of everything you want.
> ...



+1 to IE. AF critically matters, and not remotely just for sports. Good luck shooting an f/1.4 prime wide open off-center (say rule of thirds) on a 6D in real-time without a tripod, focusing screen or trial and error. A 5D3 will nail that all day. 

Hubie, respectfully, feel free to enjoy the gamechanging sensor improvements the 6D offers over the 5D3 :, I'll in turn take the 5D3 over the 6D for more reasons than I can count.

- A


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## hubie (Feb 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > hubie said:
> ...



Respectfully, I am talking about a 6D *mk II* with the assumption of it having a much more modern AF system than the mk I version , just may be not with over 60 AF points like a 5D mk III

Btw, doesnt a 5D mk IV qualify you for the CPS? A 6D would definitely not.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ExodistPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Those who use those cameras (5DS & 5DSR) normally have the ISO locked in on 100 or perhaps in extreme cases 400. High ISO, who cares. These are not sports or wildlife cameras. Whats important to those shooters is extreme detail.
> ...



That presupposes that:-
1/ You sometimes need high resolution and know beforehand when those occasions will be.
2/ You are happy to put up with the much larger file sizes and unnecessary processing for every single image you take.

I'd like a 5DSR but probably won't get one until the MkII, there are too many interesting features I'd like that the current model doesn't have over and above the improvements that on chip ADC will give the base iso, things like better AF, full touch screen, WiFi, etc. that a MkII will have and I, personally, would use.

For my uses I can see a two body solution to replace my aging 1DS MkIII's, a 1DX MkII and a 5DS/R MkII. I'll probably get the 1DX MkII first as I don't see that being upgraded to a MkIII until the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. However i do see a 5DS/R MkII (which I believe will be joined to make a single non AA filter equipped body) coming a good time before that.


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## Don Haines (Feb 27, 2017)

hubie said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



You don't pictures with a sensor or an AF module, you take them with a camera system. There are many technological factors and ergonomic factors that make up the camera systems performance. Looking at a single component in isolation is a fool's quest. As has been said many times before in this forum, nobody cares how many megapixels or stops of DR are in a blurry picture, and that for modern cameras your lens choice is more important than the choice of body


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## ahsanford (Feb 27, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> That presupposes that:-
> 1/ You sometimes need high resolution and know beforehand when those occasions will be.
> 2/ You are happy to put up with the much larger file sizes and unnecessary processing for every single image you take.



Oh, goodness, I did not state the 5DS R is not free of downsides!  I'm just rebutting the point that it goes to hell north of low ISO. It does not.

You are spot on with both points, and the 5DS / 5DS R is not for everyone. I'm naturally in the 5D4 (or 5D5) trajectory as a guy who wants a great all-arounder and _does_ want a great balance of resolution and high ISO performance. That said, I'm passing on the 5D4 and will buy glass this cycle.

- A


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## Zv (Feb 27, 2017)

Wouldn't it be interesting if they kept the megapixel count around 20? It's good enough for the flagship so not so far fetched an idea! Maybe it could be a low light wonder? 

Personally I'd be cool with that. They could just stick the sensor from the 1DX2 in there, add a Digic 7 and call it a day. Well, I guess if that was the case we would've seen the finished product by now!


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## AlanF (Feb 27, 2017)

Please correct me if I am wrong as I am relying on reading measurements on sites and not direct experience. it seems that there is very little to choose between the 5DIV and 1DXII in terms of noise and dynamic range and so the lower pixel sensor's prime role is to allow more fps? In which case, the putting the 1DXII sensor in a low fps 6DII would be worse than putting the 5DIV sensor into it?


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## ExodistPhotography (Feb 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> .....
> 
> Turns out that's not the case at all. Most reviewers describe the 5DS as a very fair noise competitor to the 5D3 _once you downsample to the 5D3's 22 MP_. That's not a cheat or a magic trick -- think of it as the camera needing to downshift to manage a steeper hill climb.
> 
> ...



Absolutely true. You do not even have to really downsample per se. Just printing the both the same size (say A3+ 19x13 inches) will end up with similar results since the pixel resolution tend to just overpower the noise. (I hope I am saying that correctly). Just like if you take a really high ISO image say from a 80D at ISO6400 and post it to FB at 1000px.. Everyone is not going to see that there was noise in the image. I did not mean to imply you could not use the 5DSR in anyway you wanted. I just tend to come from a portrait studio mindset  

Cheers, Joe


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## In-The-Dark (Feb 27, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> <li>24-28mp full frame CMOS</li>
> <li>45 AF points (all cross-type)</li>
> <li>Dual Pixel AF</li>
> <li>DIGIC 7</li>
> ...



Great set of predicted specs. But, will these make it to the finished product?
Looking forward to MP kept at a minimal increase, cleaner images at higher ISO, & wider placement of AF points.


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## Zv (Feb 27, 2017)

AlanF said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong as I am relying on reading measurements on sites and not direct experience. it seems that there is very little to choose between the 5DIV and 1DXII in terms of noise and dynamic range and so the lower pixel sensor's prime role is to allow more fps? In which case, the putting the 1DXII sensor in a low fps 6DII would be worse than putting the 5DIV sensor into it?



Well, yeah it would be worse but no one is expecting the 5DIV sensor in the 6DII. 

I reckon we'll see a completely new FF sensor developed for the 6DII that's somewhere in between 20-30Mpix (my guess is 24 or 25). Since the higher Mpix count of the 5DIV doesn't seem to have hindered it with regards to high ISO and DR we can safely assume the 6DII will also be fine in those areas. Personally I'd like a lower Mpix count as the files are easy to work with, though an additional 4 or 5 won't make a huge difference. 

Who knows maybe Canon figured out something new about sensor design since the 1DXII and 5DIV and we could be in for a treat?


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## IglooEater (Feb 27, 2017)

hubie said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > By that logic the 1DX had nothing over the 6D. I don't think you mean that. More AF points do make certain tasks much easier, especially sports and wildlife, where keeping an AF point on target while tracking is paramount.
> ...


I beg to differ on the price difference. The vast majority of 5D iii's on the market are used. In my area they are selling for around 2000 cad ( think 1,530 usd). I almost bought one at 1,600cad (think 1,220 usd) last November but decided to wait on the 6D II announcement. I've seen legitimate offers as low as 1,400 (1,070 usd) but was never quick enough to snatch one up. The new 6D is likely to come in around 2,000 usd, (2650 cad) which is almost twice the price of what I can get a 5D III for.
In other words, the 6D II had better be pretty awesome for me to consider it over a 5D iii. That would include a capable AF system.


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## benkam (Feb 27, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> I beg to differ on the price difference. The vast majority of 5D iii's on the market are used. In my area they are selling for around 2000 cad ( think 1,530 usd). I almost bought one at 1,600cad (think 1,220 usd) last November but decided to wait on the 6D II announcement. I've seen legitimate offers as low as 1,400 (1,070 usd) but was never quick enough to snatch one up. The new 6D is likely to come in around 2,000 usd, (2650 cad) which is almost twice the price of what I can get a 5D III for.
> In other words, the 6D II had better be pretty awesome for me to consider it over a 5D iii. That would include a capable AF system.



There's a clear price difference between used and new. If you look at it that way, when purchase decision time comes, apart from the specs, you can't forget the adjectives for their condition -- so it'll be between a _new_ 6D II and a _used_ 5D III.


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## ahsanford (Feb 27, 2017)

benkam said:


> There's a clear price difference between used and new. If you look at it that way, when purchase decision time comes, apart from the specs, you can't forget the adjectives for their condition -- so it'll be between a _new_ 6D II and a _used_ 5D III.



Yep. And used will likely be the _only_ way to get a 5D3 soon -- it will be discontinued on/around the timing of the announcement of the 6D2.

- A


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## TedBedlam (Mar 4, 2017)

I have a question that's probably dumb but a lot of folks on here seem smarter than me and might have some decent insight if I can avoid ridicule for my naivety - would the 6DII easily be able to match GH4 footage in post (or vice versa)? I am planning on a 6DII purchase since I need Canon color science to remain relevant as a second shooter at weddings but 40% of my work is still video oriented so I'd like to use it to add to the versatility of my current gear. Luckily, with a metabones, the lenses can be used for both so my main concern will be if the footage quality can be matched.

Also, I am super broke and suck at LUTs. LUTs of suckage if you will. Thanks in advance for the insight! Hopefully this isn't too spammy.


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## coldmist (Mar 4, 2017)

I really wish Canon would announce the Mark II already. I'm growing very impatient as I currently have a t5i that I'm itching to upgrade. I'm wanting to go full frame and I have a set of FF primes but I can't bring myself to buy the original 6D despite how cheap it's gotten because of it's AF system and the Mark II looming.

I hope the Mark II will basically be a full frame version of the 80D and have an interchangeable focus screen.


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## Otara (Mar 4, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> benkam said:
> 
> 
> > There's a clear price difference between used and new. If you look at it that way, when purchase decision time comes, apart from the specs, you can't forget the adjectives for their condition -- so it'll be between a _new_ 6D II and a _used_ 5D III.
> ...



You keep saying this as if the market will roll over and accept it if they see a markedly worse option selling instead of a better older model, regardless of whether its still sold new or not. Just having a slightly better sensor wont cut it with where sensors are generally at now.

If nothing else, a lot of grumpiness and bad press will occur. We'll have to wait and see but Ill be very surprised if the 5d3 isnt the benchmark it will be compared against, for better or worse.


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## Don Haines (Mar 5, 2017)

Otara said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > benkam said:
> ...


Actually...... Since they no longer make the 5D3, they will continue to sell it until the stocks run out.....


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## bdunbar79 (Mar 5, 2017)

I wasn't aware the 5D3 was discontinued?


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## IglooEater (Mar 5, 2017)

bdunbar79 said:


> I wasn't aware the 5D3 was discontinued?



Not in terms of sales, yet. But over and over, canon has discontinued models shortly after it's respective successor hit the market. Production of the 5D iii has almost certainly been ended, in the sense that they're not making any more. However there is plenty of unsold inventory that will be around for a while yet. Discontinuation is just not the kind of thing they announce.


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## vrpanorama (Mar 5, 2017)

I have owned a canon 6d, and replace it with a canon 5dsr, which I am really happy with. What I am missing the dynamic range that had the 6d in my opinion. If I was to consider the canon 6D II it will have to score better in dynamic range than other camera. In fact my only wish list for this camera is that the sensor should be as good as the sony sensor, and I do not care about video.


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## cszy67 (Mar 5, 2017)

Anyone have a reasonable estimate on how much the 6D will drop once the IIs are released?


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## Mikehit (Mar 6, 2017)

in UK the 6D price is about 15% higher than it was 2 years ago (according to camerapricebuster website) but those are prices at authorised dealers. So it is anybody's guess.


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## rfdesigner (Mar 6, 2017)

cszy67 said:


> Anyone have a reasonable estimate on how much the 6D will drop once the IIs are released?



I doubt it will drop below what I paid (£840, new).


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## Maiaibing (Mar 11, 2017)

vrpanorama said:


> I have owned a canon 6d, and replace it with a canon 5dsr, which I am really happy with. What I am missing the dynamic range that had the 6d in my opinion.


?? 5DS/R dynamic range is somewhat better than on the 6D.


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## rfdesigner (Mar 12, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> vrpanorama said:
> 
> 
> > I have owned a canon 6d, and replace it with a canon 5dsr, which I am really happy with. What I am missing the dynamic range that had the 6d in my opinion.
> ...



not per pixel or from ISO800 and up when you down res the 5Ds to 20Mpix (fair comparison).


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## slclick (Mar 23, 2017)

That other rumor site says it will be announced 4/21, but it's that other site, not this one.


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## avia67 (Mar 24, 2017)

hope soonest


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## Maiaibing (Mar 24, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > vrpanorama said:
> ...


You do not need to downsample anything. 

5DS/R has higher DR than the 6D until iso 1200. After that they are practically alike.


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