# Adobe reports record Q4 and fiscal 2020 revenue



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 16, 2020)

> *SAN JOSE, Calif.–(BUSINESS WIRE)*— Adobe (Nasdaq:ADBE) today reported financial results for its fourth quarter and fiscal year ended Nov. 27, 2020. In its fourth quarter of fiscal year 2020, Adobe achieved record quarterly revenue of $3.42 billion, which represents 14 percent year-over-year growth. In fiscal year 2020, Adobe achieved record annual revenue of $12.87 billion, which represents 15 percent year-over-year growth.
> “Adobe delivered record Q4 and FY20 revenue performance amidst an unprecedented macroeconomic environment,” said Shantanu Narayen, president and CEO, Adobe. “As the undisputed leader in three growing categories – creativity, digital documents and customer experience management – we are well-positioned to capture the massive market opportunity ahead of us in 2021 and beyond.”
> 
> “The resilience of our business, our operational discipline and ability to derive insights from real-time data has enabled us to thrive in 2020,” said John Murphy, executive vice...



Continue reading...


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## zim (Dec 16, 2020)

Oh oh... Popcorn at the ready


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## tcphoto (Dec 16, 2020)

It's amazing how Adobe thrives while the world is in a pandemic. How many of us freelancers are teetering on collapse but they're having record revenues?


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## unfocused (Dec 16, 2020)

Cue the "I refuse to rent software" fanatics.


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## gmon750 (Dec 16, 2020)

tcphoto said:


> It's amazing how Adobe thrives while the world is in a pandemic. How many of us freelancers are teetering on collapse but they're having record revenues?



Are you saying that freelancers should not have to pay for software that helps them make money?


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## YuengLinger (Dec 16, 2020)

tcphoto said:


> It's amazing how Adobe thrives while the world is in a pandemic. How many of us freelancers are teetering on collapse but they're having record revenues?



Please view the short attached video which explains the freelance business model.









The Underpants Business - South Park | South Park Studios US


The gnomes bargain with the boys.




southpark.cc.com


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## Shannon_S (Dec 17, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Adobe who? I've moved on to Affinity Photo. I still need to learn it like I knew PS but for as much as I used PS it made perfect sense to make switch. It does 100% of what I need and probably will for 99% of you. I love how Adobe is a billion dollar company now and can't give the starving artists a break with pricing during a year pandemic and lost jobs. Sad Adobe sad..


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## tcphoto (Dec 17, 2020)

gmon750 said:


> Are you saying that freelancers should not have to pay for software that helps them make money?


I'm saying that perhaps they should adjust their pricing to fit the economic climate.


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## unfocused (Dec 17, 2020)

tcphoto said:


> I'm saying that perhaps they should adjust their pricing to fit the economic climate.


Just like Canon?


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## lglass12189 (Dec 17, 2020)

tcphoto said:


> I'm saying that perhaps they should adjust their pricing to fit the economic climate.


Have you adjusted your pricing to fit the economic climate?


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## LDS (Dec 17, 2020)

tcphoto said:


> How many of us freelancers are teetering on collapse but they're having record revenues?



Look at the bright side of subscriptions (from Adobe POV) - even if your business is on the verge of collapsing you still have to pay Adobe or your tools will mostly stop working and will put you in an even worse situation. You Canon cameras and lenses will still keep on working fully even if you didn't buy an R5 and a batch of RF lenses, but your Adobe software won't. If you have stored images on its cloud, they could be deleted if you don't keep on paying.

I know a couple of video agencies that have been hit hard by the pandemic here since their usual customers cut most of the work they usually assign them. more even so for the Xmas period, but still have to pay Adobe software to avoid to be hindered to work wholly. That's the main reason I don't like subscriptions - they look good when the money keep rollin' in - the problem is when they don't.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 17, 2020)

LDS said:


> Look at the bright side of subscriptions (from Adobe POV) - even if your business is on the verge of collapsing you still have to pay Adobe or your tools will mostly stop working and will put you in an even worse situation. You Canon cameras and lenses will still keep on working fully even if you didn't buy an R5 and a batch of RF lenses, but your Adobe software won't. If you have stored images on its cloud, they could be deleted if you don't keep on paying.
> 
> I know a couple of video agencies that have been hit hard by the pandemic here since their usual customers cut most of the work they usually assign them. more even so for the Xmas period, but still have to pay Adobe software to avoid to be hindered to work wholly. That's the main reason I don't like subscriptions - they look good when the money keep rollin' in - the problem is when they don't.


For most people here you are talking about $7.50 a month, the price of a couple of coffees, are you seriously suggesting that is the straw that breaks the camels back? I’d put the horrific cost of health insurance hundreds of dollars a month above that, or how about a $60+ a month phone plan, or cable tv with virtually no options for $45 a month if you also buy other services you don’t want or barely work at the same rate. How about $130 a ticket for a single day at Disney, that is more than it costs for a year of the leading professional imaging software.

But Adobe are far from the only business software that is subscription based, in fact in the business arena Adobe stand out as setting their subscription fees at a very low price point.


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## msatter (Dec 17, 2020)

It is really cheap comparing it with buying a Ferrari or running a racing team. Ican'tunderstand why not every one is rent Adobe software. It is that cheap rven if you don't need it at all.


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## LDS (Dec 17, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> For most people here you are talking about $7.50 a month,



I was talking about professionals buying higher priced SKUs for several users. Which could be in serious troubles because they have to decide which expenses to defer to stay afloat while trying to keep working, and don't fire people. Luckily we don't have to pay for health insurance here because we have universal care, but that also means taxes are not low (still, you get healthcare even when you lose your job). This is a time when revenues quickly moved towards zero for some businesses.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 17, 2020)

LDS said:


> I was talking about professionals buying higher priced SKUs for several users. Which could be in serious troubles because they have to decide which expenses to defer to stay afloat while trying to keep working, and don't fire people. Luckily we don't have to pay for health insurance here because we have universal care, but that also means taxes are not low (still, you get healthcare even when you lose your job). This is a time when revenues quickly moved towards zero for some businesses.


I really don’t see why that is Adobe’s problem. Business expenses are business expenses and as far as they go an Adobe subscription amounts to a tiny part of any business overhead, rent, insurance, payroll taxes etc all account for a much larger share of a businesses income than a software subscription.

I understand what you are getting at, I just think it is misplaced. Nobody is crucifying Amazon or Home DEpcot because their profits are up.


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## snappy604 (Dec 17, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> For most people here you are talking about $7.50 a month, the price of a couple of coffees, are you seriously suggesting that is the straw that breaks the camels back? I’d put the horrific cost of health insurance hundreds of dollars a month above that, or how about a $60+ a month phone plan, or cable tv with virtually no options for $45 a month if you also buy other services you don’t want or barely work at the same rate. How about $130 a ticket for a single day at Disney, that is more than it costs for a year of the leading professional imaging software.
> 
> But Adobe are far from the only business software that is subscription based, in fact in the business arena Adobe stand out as setting their subscription fees at a very low price point.



for me its the whole licensing/rental model (more specifically in software) whether it's adobe or other companies.. dislike it on principle, not necessarily because of adobe or price etc. Mostly it comes from dealing with enterprise grade licensing schemas and often how underhanded they are (looking at you Oracle, but you're not alone).


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## YuengLinger (Dec 17, 2020)

tcphoto said:


> I'm saying that perhaps they should adjust their pricing to fit the economic climate.


I visited your website. Your work is outstanding. I hope that you make it through the trying months ahead and flourish again.

Personally, I see the USA headed towards anything but a kinder, gentler form of socialism. I lived under a totalitarian government, as have many of my friends and family, and we see clear signs that the USA is learning the wrong lessons from the worst players, past and present. In many cases, I can no longer see any daylight between large corporations and our government.

In the meantime, stay fit, get rest, sunshine, exercise; avoid processed foods, eat lots of greens and fresh fruit, take vitamins; cherish every moment with the important people in your life; and don't swim against a raging current, but instead navigate the white water while trying not to smash against rocks.


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## Starting out EOS R (Dec 17, 2020)

Congratulations Adobe. At least there's one company doing well. However, there's always a however. Any chance you could make Lightroom classic suitable as a native programme for the Mac M1 and it would be great if the profiles were there for the R5. 

Maybe asking too much?


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## privatebydesign (Dec 17, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Congratulations Adobe. At least there's one company doing well. However, there's always a however. Any chance you could make Lightroom classic suitable as a native programme for the Mac M1 and it would be great if the profiles were there for the R5.
> 
> Maybe asking too much?


They will make it M1 native as it is the future for all Macs. As to the profiles, I don’t think anything Adobe will put out will keep everybody happy. I have spent the past three months working on a profiling project and getting 90% of the way takes 5 minutes, getting 95% takes a few days, getting more is taking months and a far greater understanding of matrices and the perverse way colors are generated and measured. It turns out the more reference patches you try to match the worse the trade offs are for some other colors and reverse engineering the whole thing is far from straightforwards.


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## Tidy Media (Dec 18, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Just like Canon?


Cameras are a finite product. Software is not.


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## -pekr- (Dec 18, 2020)

My wife uses Adobe too and is pretty fluent with that. I was the man of alternatives (Nik, on1, Affinity). Adobe is closing the ring around them, adding more and more simplistic things for average joe, and that's good.

But I still can't forget those dicks mostly introduced a subscription model to the world, and it spreads like a plague. For SW that model is a total BS and working in IT segment for 30+ years I know, they might as well use annual product maintanance payments. The only company, which fixed this subscription model in a photo area, is on1 - once you stop payments, you are left with the latest version. With others, you are left just with your uneditable files.


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## zim (Dec 18, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> .....The only company, which fixed this subscription model in a photo area, is on1 - once you stop payments, you are left with the latest version.....


Doesn't C1 also have that model?


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## degos (Dec 18, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> For most people here you are talking about $7.50 a month, the price of a couple of coffees, are you seriously suggesting that is the straw that breaks the camels back?



First, only a small proportion of the population buy overpriced store coffees...

Second, you oft-quoted $7.50 is the cost for the Adobe software per month. Is that the only software a business uses? Of course not. So if all vendors move to a subscription model then each of them is taking a little slice per person per month. That's what adds up.


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## Joules (Dec 18, 2020)

Tidy Media said:


> Cameras are a finite product. Software is not.


Development, Maintenance and Distribution of Software however consume human labor, energy and requires acquisition and support of a certain infrastructure. All finite resources in the market sense.


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## Antono Refa (Dec 18, 2020)

LDS said:


> Look at the bright side of subscriptions (from Adobe POV) - even if your business is on the verge of collapsing you still have to pay Adobe or your tools will mostly stop working and will put you in an even worse situation.



Then use some other photo editing software with a perpetual license, like PaintShop Pro. I suspect most photographers prefer Photoshop because its a better software. E.g. a trial version of PSP couldn't stitch panoramas Photoshop did, and adding PTGui would raise the price to about two years of Photoshop subscription.



LDS said:


> If you have stored images on its cloud, they could be deleted if you don't keep on paying.



Having a single copy of your images is a bad idea anyway.


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## Talys (Dec 18, 2020)

Tidy Media said:


> Cameras are a finite product. Software is not.



Cameras are a physically manufactured product, while software is not. This means that there are fewer material inputs, but there are many other costs, some of which are greater in complicated modern software like Adobe CS, like the cost of thousands of employees to support and improve it.


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## Terry Danks (Dec 18, 2020)

OK, I was one of those who said "No way!" to subscription SW.
It was a large nuisance having to learn new SW from scratch.
But I did and, two years down the road, I'm content that I did. 
What I don't get is quite why so many seem think they just must stay with Adobe because somehow, "it's better." Or worse, "it's the best!" If you haven't become proficient in at least one other package, how would you know? 
Not at all sure I'd go back to PS now, even if it were free. I feel no need to do so. Affinity and DPP suit me fine.
As one internet maven has proclaimed, there IS "life after Adobe!"


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## -pekr- (Dec 18, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> For most people here you are talking about $7.50 a month, the price of a couple of coffees, are you seriously suggesting that is the straw that breaks the camels back? I’d put the horrific cost of health insurance hundreds of dollars a month above that, or how about a $60+ a month phone plan, or cable tv with virtually no options for $45 a month if you also buy other services you don’t want or barely work at the same rate. How about $130 a ticket for a single day at Disney, that is more than it costs for a year of the leading professional imaging software.
> 
> But Adobe are far from the only business software that is subscription based, in fact in the business arena Adobe stand out as setting their subscription fees at a very low price point.



For us, Adobe plan is almost 13 EUR / month. Noone pays 60$ for phone plan nowadays imo, services like HBO, Netflix, Spotify or even Tidal are quite cheap too. But first and foremost - you don't have to buy them. And once you stop using them, you lose just your entertainment. With stuff like Adobe, you completly lose the ability to re-edit your work. You are forever dependant and that's why I regard it being the retarded plague by nature. 

There was simply no need to reinvent the wheel of licensing - product + annual maintanance payments eventually. Well, apart from company greed.


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## Hector1970 (Dec 18, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> For us, Adobe plan is almost 13 EUR / month. Noone pays 60$ for phone plan nowadays imo, services like HBO, Netflix, Spotify or even Tidal are quite cheap too. But first and foremost - you don't have to buy them. And once you stop using them, you lose just your entertainment. With stuff like Adobe, you completly lose the ability to re-edit your work. You are forever dependant and that's why I regard it being the retarded plague by nature.
> 
> There was simply no need to reinvent the wheel of licensing - product + annual maintanance payments eventually. Well, apart from company greed.


Compared to the rest of photography Adobe is relatively reasonably priced. I get great value out of it. Adobe is doing well because it has its price right for the majority of users . When it was a once off price it was prohibitive and a lot of illegal copies existed. Yes a lot of people don’t like the subscription model but it’s work really well for Adobe.
It’s way better value than Topaz and Luminar. Annual paid upgrades are a pain and dubious value. I’ve only briefly looked at Luminar AI so far and it seems tacky. No Great Leap Forward anyway.


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## -pekr- (Dec 18, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> Compared to the rest of photography Adobe is relatively reasonably priced. I get great value out of it. Adobe is doing well because it has its price right for the majority of users . When it was a once off price it was prohibitive and a lot of illegal copies existed. Yes a lot of people don’t like the subscription model but it’s work really well for Adobe.
> It’s way better value than Topaz and Luminar. Annual paid upgrades are a pain and dubious value. I’ve only briefly looked at Luminar AI so far and it seems tacky. No Great Leap Forward anyway.



I don't mind subscription as per se, but the lock-in which happens - there might be the situation, when you are not willing to pay anymore. If you would buy your product, you would be able to use it almost infinitely, until OS upgrade breaks it. Not so with the subscription, when you are left with uneditable work. And that's why I like on1 - you can buy their product, or pay for the Pro version, which is both a bit expensive, but contains many bonus materials, courses, but also the product itself. If you opt-out, you are left with the latest version you have paid for. If Adobe or others would provide this opt-out price to own the product, I would not say a word. As for Luminiar, it is mostly an overhyped product


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## privatebydesign (Dec 19, 2020)

degos said:


> First, only a small proportion of the population buy overpriced store coffees...
> 
> Second, you oft-quoted $7.50 is the cost for the Adobe software per month. Is that the only software a business uses? Of course not. So if all vendors move to a subscription model then each of them is taking a little slice per person per month. That's what adds up.


I don't know where you live but the queues I see outside Tim Horton's, Starbuck's, et al are testament to the fact that Starbuck's has a Dec 2020 market capitalization of $121 Billion. Judging by figures like that it seems more than a small proportion of the population buy coffee, even though that really wasn't my point. My point was that the price is not expensive when put in the context of other everyday expenses.

As to your second point, what other true business software is there that costs less? But more importantly, what do other expenses businesses incur have to do with Adobe? it is the only software my business buys and when I get to the point my business can't afford $7.50 for cutting edge software I know I am not a business anymore and will move that subscription to a personal expense, because for me it is worth it.

I have a friend who pays $1,700 a month for a studio space, $400 for electricity and insurance, he pays $125 for his two company mobile phones, he also has domestic rent, car payments etc etc, $7.50 a month is a rounding error, it is inconsequential in the business environment.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 19, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> For us, Adobe plan is almost 13 EUR / month. Noone pays 60$ for phone plan nowadays imo, services like HBO, Netflix, Spotify or even Tidal are quite cheap too. But first and foremost - you don't have to buy them. And once you stop using them, you lose just your entertainment. With stuff like Adobe, you completly lose the ability to re-edit your work. You are forever dependant and that's why I regard it being the retarded plague by nature.
> 
> There was simply no need to reinvent the wheel of licensing - product + annual maintanance payments eventually. Well, apart from company greed.


Really? Try running a business without an unlimited mobile plan, here in the USA unlimited plans run $50-90 for one line. https://www.rollingstone.com/produc...onics/best-unlimited-data-phone-plan-1057743/

I can fully understand people not wanting to rent software, I don't understand why they think companies making *business software* should make versions for non business users and why they should make it down to a price they feel they should be charged with completely different end user licenses.

Adobe are and have always been primarily* business software* producers.

There absolutely was a desperate need for Adobe to reinvent the wheel with regards their income. Look at the myriad of articles available about the change from a business perspective. The company were very brave but they had their backs to the wall and were going bankrupt so even though it was a huge calculated gamble it was completely necessary.


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## EOS 4 Life (Dec 20, 2020)

tcphoto said:


> It's amazing how Adobe thrives while the world is in a pandemic. How many of us freelancers are teetering on collapse but they're having record revenues?


Cloud services of all sorts are thriving because of the pandemic.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 20, 2020)

Of all the big corporations to be angry about, I don't see Adobe has a high priority. Credit card companies that charge 15-30% interest in times of 0% interest. (And the actual interest rates are much higher because many will charge interest on the original amount charged even after some of the principle has been paid off!)

Amazon? How many businesses are they disrupting to the point of bankruptcy? It ain't just bookstores anymore. And before Amazon it was good old Walmart.

Big corporate fast-food? Does anybody remember in the USA when diners and independent coffee shops and restaurants of all types were omnipresent in small towns and big cities? Good luck finding a place for breakfast other than crappy fast-food now. Good luck. From coast to coast, America has some of the most consistently awful food in the world. Exceptions are disappearing at a record rate, thanks to Covid.

Entertainment? Pay for cable channels to have nearly 50% of the viewing time commercials. Streaming? Loving it? Oh, yeah, baby, because here come the data caps, big time across the whole USA, with either throttling or very high over-usage fees--unless you pony up to pay about as much as larger cable bills.

And how about taxes? And energy costs?

Ok, CR is a photography forum, so Adobe seems relevant and fair game, but it is pretty ineffective griping about them as a reason to be struggling in an oversaturated field. And with youtube teaching everybody within a few weeks how to get pretty good portraits? Wow, people skills are indispensable, because now you have to find a very successful, extremely busy, discerning, and vein client willing to pay $800 plus for individual and family portraits. Not to mention how cheap it is to get into passable real estate photography, and how easy the basics are to learn. Yes, there are enough "bottom feeder" agents, and lately so much demand, that high-end photographers just don't have much market. School portraits? My state has a couple regional monopolies, and the individual schools aren't allowed to use somebody independent.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

*Now imagine you are working for Adobe or another software company. Would you want your job put on pause between upgrades? Would you prefer to just do temp contract work only while the company prepares a new version? Or would you rather have a steady income, a job you can depend on because of the subscription model? Please see other sides of this issue.*

I've had a couple aggravating moments with Creative Cloud, twice when I was 100% locked out of LR CC and Photoshop. It hasn't happened in over 18 months, but for some reason I wasn't connected to the web in my home, and all my Adobe stuff just would not open until I did connect. Maybe a bug, I never found out. But, to put that in perspective, I've had internet outages, power outages in lovely weather, a van battery that died after only three years, "smart" TV's freeze up, a two year old fridge's icemaker crap out...Big freaking deal in a life of utter dependence on technology of one sort or another.

Go ahead, get mad at Adobe for making a profit. Resent the success of others. But I can't imagine it accomplishes anything or makes you feel one bit better.

Inhale....Exhale...Ommmm...


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## Fischer (Dec 20, 2020)

Hate their subscription software model which caused me a lot of issues. But have resigned to the same strategy as I used for Microsoft, Apple, Amazon etc. Bought their shares. Has already paid for any Adobe software I'll ever use. YMMV.


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## Ozarker (Dec 24, 2020)

Shannon_S said:


> Adobe who? I've moved on to Affinity Photo. I still need to learn it like I knew PS but for as much as I used PS it made perfect sense to make switch. It does 100% of what I need and probably will for 99% of you. I love how Adobe is a billion dollar company now and can't give the starving artists a break with pricing during a year pandemic and lost jobs. Sad Adobe sad..


Dude, it's about $12 a month for the photographer package. Should they throw in a "Happy Meal" toy to make you feel ok?


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## Del Paso (Dec 24, 2020)

$ 12 a month is what you'd pay for one disgusting Big Mac and an even more disgusting Starbucks so-called coffee...
So, my choice is quickly made.


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## zim (Dec 24, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> $ 12 a month is what you'd pay for one disgusting Big Mac and an even more disgusting Starbucks so-called coffee...
> So, my choice is quickly made.


Haven't had a big mac (or whopper) in years but I always found it ironic that the absolutely worst awful disgusting burger I've ever had was in America!

(Deliberate attempt to go OT  )


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## stevelee (Dec 24, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> I've had a couple aggravating moments with Creative Cloud, twice when I was 100% locked out of LR CC and Photoshop. It hasn't happened in over 18 months, but for some reason I wasn't connected to the web in my home, and all my Adobe stuff just would not open until I did connect. Maybe a bug, I never found out. But, to put that in perspective, I've had internet outages, power outages in lovely weather, a van battery that died after only three years, "smart" TV's freeze up, a two year old fridge's icemaker crap out...Big freaking deal in a life of utter dependence on technology of one sort or another.


I've had very minor issues with CC, and that was long ago. In contrast, almost every upgrade of Photoshop I installed before that presented some sort of challenge that I could get resolved only by calling Adobe's customer service. I was used to spending about $600 a year on Adobe upgrades, so a $50/month subscription didn't seem like an expensive substitute. Since I have retired, I have used InDesign a lot less. And with the increasing functionality of Photoshop, I have used Illustrator not as often. I edit an occasional video with FCP X rather than Premiere, because I'm more used to it. So I have not so much use for the other programs, and could probably drop down to the $12 plan and not regret it more than once a month, but am at a stage in life where a bit more convenience seems worth more than having a few hundred extra $$ in my estate when I die.

I got a Big Mac a couple weeks ago, and it tasted better than I had remembered. I may get another one in the coming weeks, and McDonald's has pretty good coffee, and much cheaper than Starbucks.

I don't have an ice maker. I learned years ago that even modern refrigerators don't often have problems except for the ice maker. I'm dependent upon ESPN+ for many of the basketball games I watch these days, even games taking place a half mile from my house, such as the recent Vanderbilt game. A couple times now games I was watching on the Apple TV would freeze and I would eventually get some sort of error message. Somehow, however, I could watch the game on my iPad. I don't know how to trouble shoot that. Given how much of my life, especially now, involves electronic devices, I really don't have that many problems.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 24, 2020)

I haven‘t suffered any of the myriad of ‘issues’ Adobe have been blamed for over the years, until recently. When I did my last LR and PS update it broke the connection to my wide format Canon printer. It took quite a while working with Canon support to realize the blame needed to be shifted to Adobe!

I always retain the older version should I have issues and just didn’t think to try from the older PS before going down the Canon blame rabbit hole.

As for burgers and coffee, I’ll take a Five Guys though I’ll pass on most of the rest, and I’m cheap so pretty much any ’coffee’ will do.


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## stevelee (Dec 24, 2020)

I like Five Guys, but there is not one handy to me. And these days I'm doing drive through or curb pickup mostly. I eat at some restaurants if they have good outdoor space, but it is getting too cool for that now.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 24, 2020)

stevelee said:


> I like Five Guys, but there is not one handy to me. And these days I'm doing drive through or curb pickup mostly. I eat at some restaurants if they have good outdoor space, but it is getting too cool for that now.


Fortunately for my health there isn't one close to me either Steve! I'm sure my wife and I are pretty atypical but we have eaten out of the house only once since the first week in March.


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## stevelee (Dec 24, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Fortunately for my health there isn't one close to me either Steve! I'm sure my wife and I are pretty atypical but we have eaten out of the house only once since the first week in March.


One of the nicest restaurants here is right beside the lake. You can get there by boat or car. They have a rather large patio area, so I've eaten there several times with different friends over these months. In normal years a college classmate visits for the Fourth, and we eat on the patio around 9pm and watch fireworks coming from different points around the lake.

A place that is normally a sports bar with a good restaurant beside it has a nice patio area, and two mostly breakfasty places have outdoor seating.

My 92-year-old neighbor is being even more careful, so she won't do restaurants even outside. But we have done takeout food and eaten at a picnic table in a park on a different part of the lake.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 24, 2020)

Here's my recipe for burgers. Find a good round roast, ask the butcher to grind it after trimming any excess fat. Bring it home, mix with olive oil, egg, bread crumbs, parsley flakes, pepper, a pinch of onion powder, and paprika. Also a teaspoon of beef extract diluted in a little water. A little Worcestershire sauce too.

Make balls a little smaller than a baseball and keep slapping them until they are very tight, all gaps gone, then handshape into 3/4 inch patties.

Grill over direct medium heat on a gas grill for about five minutes. If anybody wants cheese, it goes on after grilling and the burger gets put under our broiler for a minute.

Sometimes we go with Kaiser rolls, other times the really soft Pepperidge Farm sesame-seed buns.

The kids love them too!

PS We haven't eaten in a restaurant since early February. Ordered pizza out once, but then just started going with Sam's Club large refrigerated ones.


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## Antono Refa (Dec 25, 2020)

There's a report on petapixel that the light room v6 perpetual license seems to be losing some features.


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## Redline (Jan 11, 2021)

I hear complaints all the time but those people never had to pay the single license, $600+ per software like Photoshop CS back in the days. Now for $60/month I get to use PS, Lightroom, Audition, Premiere, etc all for that price. Personally, that's a bargain. Sure, it can be buggy like any software but I've been sticking with them.

Plus nowadays, subscription models are becoming more popular everywhere, unfortunately...something we may not be able to get away with.


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## SteveC (Jan 11, 2021)

Redline said:


> I hear complaints all the time but those people never had to pay the single license, $600+ per software like Photoshop CS back in the days. Now for $60/month I get to use PS, Lightroom, Audition, Premiere, etc all for that price. Personally, that's a bargain. Sure, it can be buggy like any software but I've been sticking with them.
> 
> Plus nowadays, subscription models are becoming more popular everywhere, unfortunately...something we may not be able to get away with.



At eleven months, you've now paid $660 for that license, after 12 months $720, and so on.

I'd personally rather put the $600 on a credit card with an outrageous interest rate, if I had to, than pay $60 a month, forever.


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## stevelee (Jan 11, 2021)

SteveC said:


> At eleven months, you've now paid $660 for that license, after 12 months $720, and so on.
> 
> I'd personally rather put the $600 on a credit card with an outrageous interest rate, if I had to, than pay $60 a month, forever.


If you are happy with using the same version of the software forever, then that will work. Before the subscription plan, I was paying $600 or so a year to upgrade the programs I was using anyway. With the subscription model, I'm paying $50ish a month for the whole suite with frequent upgrades and fixes. I have some of my old computers around if I wanted to run an old version, but the occasion hasn't come up.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jan 11, 2021)

stevelee said:


> If you are happy with using the same version of the software forever, then that will work. Before the subscription plan, I was paying $600 or so a year to upgrade the programs I was using anyway. With the subscription model, I'm paying $50ish a month for the whole suite with frequent upgrades and fixes. I have some of my old computers around if I wanted to run an old version, but the occasion hasn't come up.


$600 seems like quite a lot.
The upgrade prices did not seem that high.
The only thing that I remember is that if we did not upgrade every year than we would have to buy an entirely new version or stick with what we had.


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## stevelee (Jan 12, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> $600 seems like quite a lot.
> The upgrade prices did not seem that high.
> The only thing that I remember is that if we did not upgrade every year than we would have to buy an entirely new version or stick with what we had.


The upgrade price depended upon what package of apps you had. There were cheaper upgrades for just a single program, just as there are cheaper subscriptions for just Photoshop and Lightroom. Package contents and upgrade prices varied over time.


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