# Industry News: Nikon Teases Their Full Frame Mirrorless Camera & New Mount



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 23, 2018)

```
<iframe width="728" height="409" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZldXR313k4M" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>Nikon Europe has <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZldXR313k4M">posted a video on YouTube</a> that seems to tease the upcoming full frame mirrorless camera from Nikon, along with the rumored new “Z mount”.</p>
<p>If you <a href="https://youtu.be/ZldXR313k4M?t=1m5s">move forward to 1:05 in the video</a>, you’ll see what everyone is talking about.</p>
<p>Nikon Rumors is wondering if there’s more going on here.</p>
<div align="center">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en">
<p dir="ltr" lang="en">I am just questioning my own rumors – could this be a medium format camera? This new mount is HUGE!<a href="https://t.co/NLj5JvVA91">https://t.co/NLj5JvVA91</a> <a href="https://t.co/wANUYeGuhr">pic.twitter.com/wANUYeGuhr</a></p>
<p>— Nikon Rumors (@nikonrumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/nikonrumors/status/1021268459391512576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 23, 2018</a></p></blockquote>
<p><script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script></div>
<p>Specifications are after the break.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>Nikon Full Frame Mirrorless Specifications</strong> (<a href="https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/23/more-nikon-mirrorless-camera-rumors.aspx/">Nikon Rumors</a>):</p>
<ul>
<li>Official announcement in the next few weeks (still no exact/confirmed date).</li>
<li>Battery life is said to be worse than current Nikon DSLR cameras (obviously).</li>
<li>The biggest problem could be that Nikon may not be able to meet demand as production facilities are not yet ramped up after the restructuring. Again, just a rumor that may or may not turn out to be true.</li>
<li>Very good video AF features (no other details).</li>
<li>Video AF will be different for the two mirrorless models (the cheaper version may have less AF goodies).</li>
<li>AF tracking ability of the 45MP version on par with the current Sony A7 models.</li>
<li>Another price, this time from the UK (body only): 45MP about £2,400, 24MP about £1,700.</li>
<li>F-mount adaptor can be used with ANY Nikkor lens (G, E, <a href="https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/03/lets-start-talking-about-the-upcoming-nikon-mirrorless-camera.aspx/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">I reported that a while back</a>),</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## criscokkat (Jul 23, 2018)

...So a new mount, Sony sensor with Nikon firmware, Sony video features combined with new controls and potentially a normal human sized ergonomic layout. 

Could be a winner, if you are ok with buying new lenses. 

Wonder if this will push any Canon announcements forward?


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## -pekr- (Jul 23, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> ...So a new mount, Sony sensor with Nikon firmware, Sony video features combined with new controls and potentially a normal human sized ergonomic layout.
> 
> Could be a winner, if you are ok with buying new lenses.
> 
> Wonder if this will push any Canon announcements forward?



The roumour says, that you don't need to buy a new lenses ....


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## bitm2007 (Jul 23, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> <iframe width="728" height="409" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZldXR313k4M" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>Nikon Europe has <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZldXR313k4M">posted a video on YouTube</a> that seems to tease the upcoming full frame mirrorless camera from Nikon, along with the rumored new “Z mount”.</p>
> <p>If you <a href="https://youtu.be/ZldXR313k4M?t=1m5s">move forward to 1:05 in the video</a>, you’ll see what everyone is talking about.</p>
> <p>Nikon Rumors is wondering if there’s more going on here.</p>
> <div align="center">
> ...



The 45MP version could be my next camera, if the Canon equivalent doesn't take EF lenses. Especially if that launch price is correct.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 23, 2018)

I don't think the mount is big, its just that the body is too small. With a tiny body, its hard to hold it, hard to push the tiny buttons, and the balance is off. 

I was thinking of The Movie Star Trek Movie as I watched the commercial, seeming endless drifting thru space and very boring.


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## ethanz (Jul 23, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I don't think the mount is big, its just that the body is too small. With a tiny body, its hard to hold it, hard to push the tiny buttons, and the balance is off.
> 
> I was thinking of The Movie Star Trek Movie as I watched the commercial, seeming endless drifting thru space and very boring.



I think you are correct. The body is just smaller. It says it in the last tag line "In pursuit of light" or lightweight


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## RGF (Jul 23, 2018)

I was talking to a Nikon pro and based upon his comments (I believe he has a good grip on Nikon's future products, but could not tell me any details), his current lenses will work on their new Mirrorless body.


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## ken (Jul 23, 2018)

Looks like Nikon went for really small body. I hope Canon doesn't do that.


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## unfocused (Jul 23, 2018)

Skimming through some past Nikon Rumors posts, it sounds like the mount had to be larger to accommodate some fast lenses Nikon is planning.

As with Canon (If they push out a new mount), all existing Nikon lenses will work via an adapter. 

I'm very curious to see what Nikon releases. If they have in-body stabilization as predicted, I suspect they may offer a few pancake-type prime lenses with no IS in order to minimize the size. I could see Canon going this route as well.

It also seems as though these new mirrorless cameras really emphasize video. I wonder if Canon and Nikon did market research and found that the biggest threat was from video users, not stills shooters. I only say that because the one person I know who switched from Canon to Sony was a video guy. And, yes...I know that sample sizes of one are not useful for anything but forum posts.


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## fentiger (Jul 23, 2018)

video made with canon C200


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## MrFotoFool (Jul 23, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I don't think the mount is big, its just that the body is too small. With a tiny body, its hard to hold it, hard to push the tiny buttons, and the balance is off.
> 
> I was thinking of The Movie Star Trek Movie as I watched the commercial, seeming endless drifting thru space and very boring.


Agree 100%. I was watching the video and thinking what in the world is this? If I had run across it elsewhere (and not know it was a camera ad) I would have stopped watching after about ten seconds (and now wish I had).

I also think the body will be small which is why the mount looks big. I wonder who will buy this (or upcoming Canon version)? Doesn't everyone who wants something like this already own Sony?


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## transpo1 (Jul 23, 2018)

unfocused said:


> Skimming through some past Nikon Rumors posts, it sounds like the mount had to be larger to accommodate some fast lenses Nikon is planning.
> 
> As with Canon (If they push out a new mount), all existing Nikon lenses will work via an adapter.
> 
> ...



Sigh...and it all comes full circle. Who would have thought video users should be a target audience for Canon/Nikon hybrid stills cams? 

Oh, right- that was us, the 4K / video proponents who everyone on this forum has called trolls or crazy for years. :

I'm not saying anything :-X


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## transpo1 (Jul 23, 2018)

ken said:


> Looks like Nikon went for really small body. I hope Canon doesn't do that.



Small body with a BIG grip, which is the way to go for pro MILC. Fuji has discovered this with their X-H1 series as well (although their body is not that small).


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## transpo1 (Jul 23, 2018)

fentiger said:


> video made with canon C200



Come on, get real- guaranteed it was a Sony/Arri/ or RED.


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## transpo1 (Jul 23, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> ...So a new mount, Sony sensor with Nikon firmware, Sony video features combined with new controls and potentially a normal human sized ergonomic layout.
> 
> Could be a winner, if you are ok with buying new lenses.
> 
> Wonder if this will push any Canon announcements forward?



Oh, it will push them to do something- whether to hold with current announcement timing or push up. Nikon just rattled a few cages. Guaranteed there were a bunch of meetings on this at Canon today


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## melgross (Jul 23, 2018)

transpo1 said:


> criscokkat said:
> 
> 
> > ...So a new mount, Sony sensor with Nikon firmware, Sony video features combined with new controls and potentially a normal human sized ergonomic layout.
> ...



I don’t know, maybe. The video didn’t really show anything useful. The rumored specs are what about what’s expected too, as are the prices, pretty much, though those are usually wrong.


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## amorse (Jul 23, 2018)

ken said:


> Looks like Nikon went for really small body. I hope Canon doesn't do that.


I'd actually prefer a small body. Considering that there appears to be more than one mirrorless camera coming, I'm really hoping at least one of them is size/weight conscious - different systems for different needs. I definitely agree though that there needs to be a replacement with proper ergonomics for many (probably most) users.

For me though, I'd happily take slower lenses (as long as other performance measures are kept in check - i.e. sharpness and chromatic aberration) to bring the size/weight down and would be willing to lose some ergonomics to achieve that.


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## Tugela (Jul 23, 2018)

MrFotoFool said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think the mount is big, its just that the body is too small. With a tiny body, its hard to hold it, hard to push the tiny buttons, and the balance is off.
> ...



It will probably be about the size of Samsung's NX1, just with a larger mount to fit FF.


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## Tugela (Jul 23, 2018)

transpo1 said:


> criscokkat said:
> 
> 
> > ...So a new mount, Sony sensor with Nikon firmware, Sony video features combined with new controls and potentially a normal human sized ergonomic layout.
> ...




Canon likely knew all about it months ago.


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## transpo1 (Jul 23, 2018)

Tugela said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > criscokkat said:
> ...



Definitely possible! But I wonder if Nikon moved up the timing of this tease for some reason...


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## Alangeli (Jul 23, 2018)

Looking forward to a *Metabones Canon EF to Nikon Z adapter *...


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## ahsanford (Jul 23, 2018)

RGF said:


> I was talking to a Nikon pro and based upon his comments (I believe he has a good grip on Nikon's future products, but could not tell me any details), his current lenses will work on their new Mirrorless body.



With an adaptor, sure. But that sure looks like a thinner-than-FX mount body.

- A


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## Adelino (Jul 23, 2018)

transpo1 said:


> criscokkat said:
> 
> 
> > ...So a new mount, Sony sensor with Nikon firmware, Sony video features combined with new controls and potentially a normal human sized ergonomic layout.
> ...



Guaranteed that there are a bunch of meetings EVERY DAY at Canon. Businesses do that. I doubt Canon are shocked by anything Nikon has done or announced so far. In the past six years Canon have shown little concern with being top end specs or first to market. Why would that change with a tease about a product that is widely expected to be announced soon?


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## josephandrews222 (Jul 24, 2018)

amorse said:


> ken said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like Nikon went for really small body. I hope Canon doesn't do that.
> ...



This.


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## Ozarker (Jul 24, 2018)

Adelino said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > criscokkat said:
> ...



Canon has been first to market with many new technologies. I believe Canon is concerned with providing relevant and dependable tech. So far, I've not been disappointed. Releasing new features without concern for dependability or relevance or what the market wants (features for feature's sake.) would be poor business.

Canon's business model works. It doesn't show lack of concern (negative). It shows concern for what they provide to the market that makes sense for them as a business, for shareholders, and customers (positive).


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## Ozarker (Jul 24, 2018)

RGF said:


> I was talking to a Nikon pro and based upon his comments (I believe he has a good grip on Nikon's future products, but could not tell me any details), his current lenses will work on their new Mirrorless body.



hehehe. Nikon pro? What's that?


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## Ozarker (Jul 24, 2018)

From Nikon rumors: "I am just questioning my own rumors - could this be a medium format camera?"

Probably not, but if one of Canon's new MILC cameras turns out to be medium format I'm going to laugh my a$$ off... and maybe buy a camera (Medium format, huge new mount).

If Canon's new mount (provided there is a new mount at all) is for a MF camera, how many here would be giggling along with me after all the small mount panic going on around here?


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## Ozarker (Jul 24, 2018)

transpo1 said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



Good Lord, man! There's always a reason. : Cages rattled? Nawwww.


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## Hesbehindyou (Jul 24, 2018)

The glowing ring appears to be the outermost edge of the metal flange that sits flush with the body and not the inner edge - you can see the bayonet of the lens has a much smaller diameter i.e. the glowing ring is much larger than the hole for the lens.


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## jd7 (Jul 24, 2018)

josephandrews222 said:


> amorse said:
> 
> 
> > ken said:
> ...



Genuine question - if happy with slower aperture lenses, what is the attraction to FF rather than going with a smaller and lighter (and potentially cheaper) APS-C or even micro-4/3 system? If you are happy with slower lenses I am assuming you aren't too worried about shooting in low light and you aren't interested in shallow depth of field, so the benefits of FF for those things are presumably not relevant (are my assumptions wrong?). If my assumptions are correct, what other attraction does FF have? Maybe it provides better results for large prints (because there is that much less enlargement required)?

I am not saying that someone interested in FF shouldn't own any slower aperture lenses, of course, but I'm wondering about the value of a FF system if it is focused on slower aperture lenses.


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## BillB (Jul 24, 2018)

jd7 said:


> josephandrews222 said:
> 
> 
> > amorse said:
> ...



Full Frame is better for high ISO (less enlargement of the noise).


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## Quirkz (Jul 24, 2018)

BillB said:


> Full Frame is better for high ISO (less enlargement of the noise).



So is a faster lens  which was I think the point of the question.

Of course, unless you want to shoot at a smaller aperture for wider depth of field. It’s a fair question though.


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## padam (Jul 24, 2018)

Biggest benefit of FF by far is the availability of (adaptable) FF lenses.
Either new or old, same manufacturer or different, it's all there, even better than medium format in that regard.
With APS-C you are much more locked in that system (which of course is perfectly fine, if you are 100% sure that it is that you want).
In this case, Canon mirrorless probably surpasses Nikon and Sony, since the EF mount has the biggest selection and in theory it should have the best support with the newest cameras. But other things like built-in image stabilization of FF 4k video will have lesser priority at first.


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## snoke (Jul 24, 2018)

45MP.

I want.

I want EF adapter. Possible?


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## Keith_Reeder (Jul 24, 2018)

padam said:


> Biggest benefit of FF by far is the availability of (adaptable) FF lenses.



No it isn't - it's wider angles, for any given lens, than a crop body; and better high ISO performance in comparison with a contemporary crop body.

(I say "contemporary", because many current crop cameras are far better at high ISO than older FF cameras).


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## amorse (Jul 24, 2018)

jd7 said:


> josephandrews222 said:
> 
> 
> > amorse said:
> ...



Fair question, but there are a two answers which jump out for me - high ISO performance and lens options.

To explain my interest a bit: 95% of my photography takes place while camping/hiking. Many of the locations i'm trying to shoot will be a full day of hiking away from a road, if not several days. As a result, I'm carrying camera gear, camping gear, food, and other equipment. From the photography aspect of it, I'm often doing long exposures, landscapes and some night photography. This means I can usually get away with slower lenses, but will need at least one fast lens. I usually want a 16-35, 24-70, 70-200, and a fast 14mm (really only the 14 needs to be fast, and there are relatively small/fast EF lenses available now). An APS C or m4/3 systems won't let me go equivalently wide and fast as a 14mm f/2.8. Also, I am shooting on tripod maybe 95% of the time, so hand holding ergonomics are not my top priority.

Right now, my kit weighs in at just over 15 lbs before filters or any other peripherals, and I use a camera insert to hold everything (minus the tripod) which measures in at 7" by 11" by 11.5", and it is completely full. That's a fair bit of weight and a lot of size for me to carry on long hikes. I think I can shave that down to maybe 12 lbs with some lens changes, but making this smaller or lighter would be better. 

For me, the ideal situation would be an m6 sized full frame mirrorless with slow lenses, then adapt one fast lens from EF. I'm not against adapters because otherwise any fast lens will have to build in the lost flange distance to each lens - the over all kit size will get bigger than it currently is. Adapting would let me save that flange distance from every fast lens I'm carrying (if for some reason I need more than the 14). If the camera body and lenses all shrink in size, I can probably get away with a lighter tripod too, further reducing the weight/size.

Alternatively, an m6 size full-frame camera (even with an adapter) would make a great backup camera for hiking (in case one body dies). I could carry two of those and still have less weight than my 5D IV.

Again, this is my use case and it does not likely fit the vast majority of buyers. I'm not saying Canon needs to do this or they're *******, I'm saying that a kit that lets me do this with less weight/size would be very attractive, and there are compromises that can be made to achieve it.


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## Kit. (Jul 24, 2018)

amorse said:


> ken said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like Nikon went for really small body. I hope Canon doesn't do that.
> ...


I actually prefer a fixed lens on a small body.


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## ewg963 (Jul 24, 2018)

Time will tell.


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## BillB (Jul 24, 2018)

amorse said:


> jd7 said:
> 
> 
> > josephandrews222 said:
> ...



Everything is a tradeoff. One question is how small and light Canon could build a fullframe mirrorless camera while continuing to use the EF mount. If Canon can use the EF mount for a fullframe mirrorless camera that it thinks is small enough and light enough, then that is what I think Canon will do. If Canon wants a fullframe mirrorless that is smaller and lighter than what can be done using an EF mount, then I think they would want to use the EF-M mount. They would only use a new mount if neither the EF mount or the EF-M mount was a workable solution. 

Of course, Canon has already decided what it is going to do, but we can only guess what they decided.


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## melgross (Jul 24, 2018)

There are three markets, really. The first one Canon has covered with their present M series, which is doing very well, thank you.

As far as FF goes, there are two more markets. These who just want a FF sensor for dynamic and noise reasons, and will be happy with a small, light and relatively inexpensive body, and likely won’t be buying more than two or three consumer grade lenses. Say, the 6D people.

The other wants a more top end sensor, and a bigger heavier body with much more sophistication. It’s the 1Ds/5D crowd, vs the Rebel crowd.

There are always those in between, of course. I suppose that if Canon is coming out with two, as Nikon seems to be, they will cover both ends, though not the extremes, as yet. The ELV is still the sticking point for 1Ds users, according to canon’s statements.


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## BillB (Jul 24, 2018)

melgross said:


> There are three markets, really. The first one Canon has covered with their present M series, which is doing very well, thank you.
> 
> As far as FF goes, there are two more markets. These who just want a FF sensor for dynamic and noise reasons, and will be happy with a small, light and relatively inexpensive body, and likely won’t be buying more than two or three consumer grade lenses. Say, the 6D people.
> 
> ...



One of the wild cards is video, I think. The case for mirrorless gets more persuasive if video is part of the equation. However, hand held video has its limitations, and working on a tripod limits the appeal of an EVF in comparison to using the rear screen. So, one question would seem to be whether there is a part of the market that is particularly responsive to strong video capabilities, rather than just being infatuated with video centric magic numbers.


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## FramerMCB (Jul 24, 2018)

BillB said:


> melgross said:
> 
> 
> > There are three markets, really. The first one Canon has covered with their present M series, which is doing very well, thank you.
> ...




I found the video boring and not compelling. Almost like it was a spoof of an old Star Trek movie or show - like what you might see on an old episode of: Mystery Theater 3000. 

You make a great observation Bill. I would add this thought/question to the mix. 

Canon (as is any company) is not only looking at selling to existing customers - they want to add new customers all the time. And if the younger generations (I'm a 60's born dude myself, so Gen-X) are used to Smartphones from the time they are practically walking, then Canon is going to need make/offer products that are compelling for these younger ones to use - smaller, lighter, but with all the latest tech. "My $800-1,000 smartphone shoots 4K and fits in my front pants pocket. So why should I buy a tank-of-a-camera and pay $4,000 and it doesn't even shoot full, 4K video?" We are also living in, at least in western cultures and specifically in America, the age of FADS. And companies would do well to recognize this a offer at least a few products to appeal to this part of the market. (And yes, I know that for these types of products due to the tech, manufacturing processes/time, etc. that this is hard to do.) But some "FADS" can last a long time, especially if companies offer compelling products for the "FAD". I think Canon has done very well for a long time. 

I can't wait to see the final results of both what Canon's new MLS-FF offerings will be and Nikon's...
Good times for all. Sony needs to get back to the point where their products' reputation is as good as Minolta's products used to be. I remember back when Minolta had the Maxxum line of autofocus cameras (when that tech was first getting introduced...).


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## melgross (Jul 24, 2018)

BillB said:


> melgross said:
> 
> 
> > There are three markets, really. The first one Canon has covered with their present M series, which is doing very well, thank you.
> ...



I wish we had good numbers as to what percentage of people buying cameras actually use them for anything near “serious” video. I never see people using a DSLR to shoot video. It’s always a smartphone. Canon has excellent camera lines for video, that are video cameras. What happened to that 1Ds variant that was for video? I don’t think it did that well.

It’s very possible that there exists a small, but very vocal, group of people that do use DSLRs for video, but that most people don’t. At least, that’s what I believe.

Video will never be more than an add-on to a still camera. Whatever people may think, the ergonomics of still cameras is very different from those of video cameras. You can shoot either with either, but it will never be more than a compromise.


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## Random Orbits (Jul 24, 2018)

melgross said:


> I wish we had good numbers as to what percentage of people buying cameras actually use them for anything near “serious” video. I never see people using a DSLR to shoot video. It’s always a smartphone. Canon has excellent camera lines for video, that are video cameras. What happened to that 1Ds variant that was for video? I don’t think it did that well.
> 
> It’s very possible that there exists a small, but very vocal, group of people that do use DSLRs for video, but that most people don’t. At least, that’s what I believe.
> 
> Video will never be more than an add-on to a still camera. Whatever people may think, the ergonomics of still cameras is very different from those of video cameras. You can shoot either with either, but it will never be more than a compromise.



I don't know what the numbers would say, but I use my DSRLs for video for my kids plays/shows/recitals. And yes, it's usually on a tripod and I record the audio separately. I used to use a camcorder for this purpose (Canon HV20?) years ago (handheld, what was I thinking?), but the DSLR solution is much easier for me. I already have the lenses and tripod, so getting video in addition to pictures requires using a second body (a backup). Larger sensor, better lenses than dedicated camcorders with no additional cost to me. Atop the tripod, the camera is > 6 ft off the ground and clears the audience armed with ipads/cell phones. I set up the tripod against the back wall, but with f/2.8 or f/4 zooms, I can still frame the way I want and have a reasonable ISO.


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## HarryFilm (Jul 24, 2018)

CanonFanBoy said:


> From Nikon rumors: "I am just questioning my own rumors - could this be a medium format camera?"
> 
> Probably not, but if one of Canon's new MILC cameras turns out to be medium format I'm going to laugh my a$$ off... and maybe buy a camera (Medium format, huge new mount).
> 
> If Canon's new mount (provided there is a new mount at all) is for a MF camera, how many here would be giggling along with me after all the small mount panic going on around here?



---

Canon's newest camera? It's a mirrorless MF system! There I Said It! Big New Mount with 50 megapixels sensor at 25 fps burst rate AND two SSD flash drives rather than small CF or SD-like cards. Fully articulated 2.7k high frame rate live-view screen.
Lots of primes and three zoom lenses coming out right out of the gate!

DCI 4K 4:4:4 RAW video and DCI 4K 4:2:2 interframe encoded 60 fps video at full 4096 by 2160 sampled from ENTIRE sensor with full DPAF and better noise handling/reduction than even Canon 1DxMk2!

YES YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

P.S. Sony's newest upcoming MF camera is even better specced-out! With Much Better Codec that has more frames rates, frame sizes, aspect ratios, multiple colour sample-formatted pixel types and coming right of the gate with the FASTEST 16mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm prime lenses ---EVER--- besting even the Zeiss Otus series! It will be a portaiture and ultra-wide LANDSCAPE MASTER MONSTER of a camera/lens combo!

P.S.2 -- I Told You So......


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## amorse (Jul 24, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> P.S. Sony's newest upcoming MF camera is even better specced-out! With Much Better Codec that has more frames rates, frame sizes, aspect ratios, multiple colour sample-formatted pixel types and coming right of the gate with the FASTEST 16mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm prime lenses ---EVER--- besting even the Zeiss Otus series! It will be a portaiture and ultra-wide LANDSCAPE MASTER MONSTER of a camera/lens combo!
> 
> P.S.2 -- I Told You So......


That doesn't sound right - why would Sony release 16/35/50/85 primes on medium format? Depending on the sensor size those would all be way wider equivalents to their full frame counterparts. Even if the sensor was the same size as the GFX50s those lenses would be the equivalent to 12.64/27.65/39.5/67.15 in full frame. If it were a portraiture monster there would likely be something longer available, I would think.


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## unfocused (Jul 24, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Canon's newest camera? It's a mirrorless MF system! There I Said It! Big New Mount with 50 megapixels sensor at 25 fps burst rate AND two SSD flash drives rather than small CF or SD-like cards. Fully articulated 2.7k high frame rate live-view screen...
> 
> ...YES YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!



To put this into context:



HarryFilm said:


> ...BUT...we DO have another software surprise for you which should be happening right around this coming Wednesday....





HarryFilm said:


> ...Anyways there IS A VERY DIFFERENT SURPRISE coming
> your way, so keep watching ON THIS FORUM HERE in
> the next 5 to 7 days to see what's up on that end!
> 
> It's a dooozy of a surprise !!!!!!  ;-)  ;-)



To remind everyone:



unfocused said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



July 24: Still waiting


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## Mikehit (Jul 24, 2018)

melgross said:


> I wish we had good numbers as to what percentage of people buying cameras actually use them for anything near “serious” video. I never see people using a DSLR to shoot video. It’s always a smartphone. Canon has excellent camera lines for video, that are video cameras. What happened to that 1Ds variant that was for video? I don’t think it did that well.
> 
> It’s very possible that there exists a small, but very vocal, group of people that do use DSLRs for video, but that most people don’t. At least, that’s what I believe.
> 
> Video will never be more than an add-on to a still camera. Whatever people may think, the ergonomics of still cameras is very different from those of video cameras. You can shoot either with either, but it will never be more than a compromise.



One of Canon's justification for the quality of video in the 5DIV was that their research had shown that a vast majority of people who shoot video shoot 10-15 second clips to supplement stills, and is not a major consideration in the buying decision. I can only take them at face value but did wonder if this was more post-hoc justification than design decision.


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## HarryFilm (Jul 25, 2018)

unfocused said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > Canon's newest camera? It's a mirrorless MF system! There I Said It! Big New Mount with 50 megapixels sensor at 25 fps burst rate AND two SSD flash drives rather than small CF or SD-like cards. Fully articulated 2.7k high frame rate live-view screen...
> ...



---

To put it BLUNTLY and simply...I don't have to care what YOU say or any ANYONE thinks on here any more! The SIMPLE FACT OF THE MATTER...IS......THAT I actually DO KNOW MORE about what's coming down the pipeline THAN YOU DO !!!!! 

Why? 

Because the company that bought MY codec is making sure it's TELLING ME DIRECTLY what's coming down the pipeline THAT'S WHY! And I ensured my NDA and and sales agreement allows me to do so....AND THE REWARD for that 444/422 codec
is WHY there is a Bell 429 and a Knight XV parked in my hangar....THAT'S WHY!


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## Mikehit (Jul 25, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> To put it BLUNTLY and simply...I don't have to care what YOU say or any ANYONE thinks on here any more! The SIMPLE FACT OF THE MATTER...IS......THAT I actually DO KNOW MORE about what's coming down the pipeline THAN YOU DO !!!!!
> 
> ...



But...I thought it was your employer who owned the codec and told you you could not release it rights-free because you wrote it on their company time?


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 25, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...


Aggression is a sign of weakness. All codecs conform to international standards, yours if indeed you have written any will be just the same otherwise they will not work with anything else in the chain. Many claim unique products but dig deeper and they are generally based off of what they learnt from others but with improvements. The mobile phone industry is a prime example of one company suing another company and then the counter claim i.e. Apple verses Samsung but both rely on prior art of others.


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## Talys (Jul 25, 2018)

unfocused said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > To put it BLUNTLY and simply...I don't have to care what YOU say or any ANYONE thinks on here any more! The SIMPLE FACT OF THE MATTER...IS......THAT I actually DO KNOW MORE about what's coming down the pipeline THAN YOU DO !!!!!
> ...



On the BRIGHT SIDE, other than TYPING IN ALL CAPS and using EXCLAMATION MARKS and ellipses for... UNKNOWN REASONS, Harry is PRETTY ENTERTAINING!!! I mean, I have no idea where he comes up with all this stuff, and some of it is totally outrageous, but it's certainly worth a chuckle or two, and I think the occasional Harry post has had me spew out coffee in laughter. It's certainly a lot more fun to read than "death to mechanical parts" trolling.


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## ethanz (Jul 25, 2018)

Talys said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



It is a good laugh, but at some point though, I stop reading the threads where there is too much of it...


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## deleteme (Jul 25, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Canon's newest camera? It's a mirrorless MF system! There I Said It! Big New Mount with 50 megapixels sensor at 25 fps burst rate AND two SSD flash drives rather than small CF or SD-like cards. Fully articulated 2.7k high frame rate live-view screen.
> Lots of primes and three zoom lenses coming out right out of the gate!
> 
> DCI 4K 4:4:4 RAW video and DCI 4K 4:2:2 interframe encoded 60 fps video at full 4096 by 2160 sampled from ENTIRE sensor with full DPAF and better noise handling/reduction than even Canon 1DxMk2!
> ...



Sorry, but this fantasy will not be realized in any scenario that does not involve unicorns pooping doubloons and flying monkeys.


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## melgross (Jul 25, 2018)

Random Orbits said:


> melgross said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we had good numbers as to what percentage of people buying cameras actually use them for anything near “serious” video. I never see people using a DSLR to shoot video. It’s always a smartphone. Canon has excellent camera lines for video, that are video cameras. What happened to that 1Ds variant that was for video? I don’t think it did that well.
> ...



And you’re one of that small number. As I said, I agree that there are people doing this, but I don’t believe it’s a lot of people. What I see is that with sales numbers declin8ng, these companies, originally led by Canon, are trying to add as many features as possible to convince people to buy their products. Some people will do just that.

I simply don’t believe that most people buy cameras for the video features, though some may. I also believe that many who do, never use the feature.

And those who come here and say that they do, don’t disprove my point, because this is a very self selected group, much more involved than the average camera buyer.


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## melgross (Jul 25, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> melgross said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we had good numbers as to what percentage of people buying cameras actually use them for anything near “serious” video. I never see people using a DSLR to shoot video. It’s always a smartphone. Canon has excellent camera lines for video, that are video cameras. What happened to that 1Ds variant that was for video? I don’t think it did that well.
> ...



It’s an interesting point, though. If that’s the case, then the quality of those clips aren’t that important, as long as they’re not really bad. There have been some professionals who are using DSLRs for video, but I think that number has declined.

So oddly enough, a number of professional movie and Tv producers are now using iPhones. That’s even for major studio productions. Well, the iPhone puts out a pretty decent 4K video stream, and a pretty good 1080p stream too. The problem is lenses.

But many DSLRs don’t put out video that much better, though the lens problem is alleviated.

Now apple has a patent for adding external lenses for much better picture quality, so who knows where this might lead if they implement it? With smartphone cameras improving much faster, on a one year time frame, using computational photography, we are seeing a major shift.


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## HarryFilm (Jul 26, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > ---
> ...



---

My employer DOES OWN the codec....but I get a nice chunk of change because I am working on MUCH MORE esoteric projects than a mere 444/422 codec! Ya think they're gonna let me walk to save a few million when $250 million+ projects are in the pipeline that NEED my expertise?


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## HarryFilm (Jul 26, 2018)

jeffa4444 said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



===

Why follow ANY standard? When you make your OWN STANDARDS, you OWN the space. My codec is Direct-X/DirectShow/Media Foundation compatible and is of course fully chippable on an FPGA or ASIC. When you're getting a 35% reduction in space requirements compared to MP4/HVEC AND getting between 95% to 98% of the measured visual quality of MP4/HVEC based upon various SMPTE and EBU video quality measurement standards, I think that kinda made the difference for people!

(Size Reduction - Quality Reduction Factor ) x Gained Video Channel Capacity = Profit

A certain company is paying Akamai $30 million U.S. a month for video hosting. Because of this fancy codec of mine, they can reduce that outlay to $20 Million per month and keep the same visual quality level...On a corporate purchase basis, What's Not To Like and Buy?

The results are indisputable and irrefutable! Ergo, a major company said OH YEAH BABY here's a whole pile of moolah! And I say....well in order to get this product ya gotta agree to put this codec in XYZ product that uses this ABC sensor and LENS combination by 123 date and you CANNOT charge any extra licence fees. Those are OUR terms! They said YES! The result of that financial and technology exchange you shall see MUCH SOONER than you think!

It WILL be an utterly complete shocker as to WHAT is being introduced....it will make MANY still photographers and videographers VERY VERY VERY HAPPY !!!!!!

One Camera With All The Most Desirable Features, Made To Rule Them All !!!!


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## ethanz (Jul 26, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> One Camera With All The Most Desirable Features, Made To Rule Them All !!!!



We know what happened the last time that was done.


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## HarryFilm (Jul 26, 2018)

ethanz said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > One Camera With All The Most Desirable Features, Made To Rule Them All !!!!
> ...



---

EEEEEEEKKKKKK!!!! Ya got my reference....

ANYWAYS! You're ALLLLL DOOOMMMEEDDDD !!!! 

******* I SAY....

See ya'll at Photokina 2018 !!!

DCI 8K MF cameras, DCI 4K 60 fps 10-bit 444/422 small form factor combined video and stills MIRRORLESS and GLOBAL SHUTTER cameras, ILC smartphones...... ooooohhhhhh BABEEEEE....... it's gonna be a VERY GOOD YEAR ..... !!!!!!!!!


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## melgross (Jul 26, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> ethanz said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



Since you claim you’ll be at Photokina this year, why don’t you tell us who you work for so that those of us going there will be able to come to see, and congratulate you.


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## 3kramd5 (Jul 26, 2018)

unfocused said:


> The problem with you Harry is that like so many liars, at some point you can't keep all your lies straight.



I don’t think that’s it at all. Rather, he’s writing an ever-changing fiction for fun, and doesn’t mind that people see through it and even parody him.

Case in point:



HarryFilm said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



Personally I’m still entertained.



HarryFilm said:


> (Size Reduction - Quality Reduction Factor ) x Gained Video Channel Capacity = Profit


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## Mikehit (Jul 26, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > HarryFilm said:
> ...



So in other words, that 'nice chunk' of the company income that you get is in itself enough to buy a hummer and a helicopter. Yeah, right.


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## jd7 (Jul 27, 2018)

amorse said:


> jd7 said:
> 
> 
> > josephandrews222 said:
> ...



That is certainly a fair load of camera gear you are carrying for that sort of hiking. When I do multi-day hikes and I have to carry everything (food, tent, etc) with me, I usually just put my 6D + 24-70/4 IS on a Black Rapid Sport strap and leave it at that!

In terms of what you are saying about a FF system focused on slower aperture lenses, I gather that (at least) one of my assumptions was wrong and shooting in low light is important to you (perhaps shallow depth of field as well?) ... and therefore you want faster aperture lenses as part of the system, it's just that much of the time you are happy to use a slower aperture lens so you would be happy to accept the inconvenience of an adapter on the occasions you want to use a faster aperture lens.

You never know, Canon might just deliver what you are after. There has to be a real possibility Canon will introduce a new mount and run two FF mounts for quite a while, ie two lines of FF cameras. A mirrorless thin mount line of cameras that has native lenses and can use EF lenses with an adapter, and an EF line of cameras which could include DSLR and mirrorless models (but either way are larger than the thin mount models) and which use EF lenses natively. I guess it probably depends on whether Canon sees a big enough market for thin mount FF to make it worth running two mounts. It will be interesting to see what happens. (My personal preference at this point is for Canon to stick to just EF for FF, but you never know maybe something will come along which changes my mind.)


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## Neutral (Jul 27, 2018)

Interesting article from Fujifilm regarding design approach for new G mount for GFX 50s MF MILC:
https://fujifilm-x.com/x-stories/gfx-technologies-2/
Like their approach to the design of new mount.
One of the things that captured my eye was approach to placing sensor protection cover glass and also focus on production tolerances. From pictures it looks as mount and sensor form one sigle unit where tolerances are reduced just to few microns. This is very impresive engineering.
Reading their technology articles aroung GFX design found that I am getting more and more interested in their second generation of GFX with new 100mpx sensor.
This might be really amazing camera.


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## Neutral (Jul 27, 2018)

Neutral said:


> Interesting article from Fujifilm regarding design approach for new G mount for GFX 50s MF MILC:
> https://fujifilm-x.com/x-stories/gfx-technologies-2/
> Like their approach to the design of new mount.
> One of the things that captured my eye was approach to placing sensor protection cover glass and also focus on production tolerances. From pictures it looks as mount and sensor form one sigle unit where tolerances are reduced just to few microns. This is very impresive engineering.
> ...


Something that I really like about Fuji approch is that by placing separate sensor protection glass at some distance from sensor they solved one of the very irritating problems of mirrorles cameras which is that sensor is not well protected from dust and gather dust very easily and cleaning sensor after that is kind of headache. I hate this with Sony cameras, always changing lenses only at home in clean air. 
But Fuji in GFX just put separate protection filter in front of sensor, just as one is used in front of lens and this eliminates all the headaches related to the sensor dust issues. Sensor is always clean and user just need to remove dust from sensor protection filter which is absolutely safe, no risk of doing any harm to sensor.
As result user do not need to worried about changing lens in dusty environment as dust could be safely removed when needed. This was my dream for a long time.This is big advantage of Fuji design, very professional and very clever approach taking care of camera users.
I wish that this would be part of any mirrorles system from any manufacture, including Canon, unless Fuji has patented this solution.


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## stevelee (Jul 29, 2018)

Even more sophisticated would be if they put in some kind of mechanism to move the sensor protecting glass out of the light path when you take a picture.


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## snoke (Jul 29, 2018)

stevelee said:


> Even more sophisticated would be if they put in some kind of mechanism to move the sensor protecting glass out of the light path when you take a picture.



No. Glass move make internal wind vortice move dust. Make dust on sensor.


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## zim (Jul 29, 2018)

stevelee said:


> Even more sophisticated would be if they put in some kind of mechanism to move the sensor protecting glass out of the light path when you take a picture.



wot, like a mirror!  ;D


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## Ozarker (Jul 29, 2018)

snoke said:


> stevelee said:
> 
> 
> > Even more sophisticated would be if they put in some kind of mechanism to move the sensor protecting glass out of the light path when you take a picture.
> ...



True. One of those vortices destroyed the trailer park in my camera. Can't have one without the other.  Laws of physics.


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## stevelee (Jul 29, 2018)

zim said:


> stevelee said:
> 
> 
> > Even more sophisticated would be if they put in some kind of mechanism to move the sensor protecting glass out of the light path when you take a picture.
> ...



Yeah, great idea! We should patent that. The photographer could actually see the view through the lens rather than just seeing another copy of live view.


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