# Can you really tell which image is a 5d IV



## cpsico (Jul 31, 2017)

Just a couple of well exposed shots at low ISO. I was out playing with old camera gear and new. While I love everything about my new 5d I won't say without one my photography is *******. I bet I could even take nice pictures with a 6D mark II.

Cameras used here are a 1Ds markIII, a 6D, and a shiny new 5D IV


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## cpsico (Jul 31, 2017)

Every picture taken with a different camera, each with its own quirks, strengths and weaknesses. Don't get hung up on dxo mark, shadow lift, etc. At the end of the day the camera you have is still amazing if you take the time to learn how to best use it.


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## sanj (Jul 31, 2017)

I can't. 

Learnt something: All camera's give similar IQ (all things frame size, lens, ISO being close), it is just the ease with which they take the photo is different. And that difference too is evident only in extreme situations.


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 31, 2017)

You mean the people driving around in Ford, Chev, Toyoto, and Hyundai are all getting the same ride experience, more or less. Well, who'd have thought that. And the doors all fit and close really nicely. Well, I'll be! Oh but I forgot, one has 20 more horsepower. Guess the others are actually junk.

Jack


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## SecureGSM (Jul 31, 2017)

cpsico,
the second last image (img_0695) really stands out for me. what was the cam used? 
thanks.


cpsico said:


> Every picture taken with a different camera, each with its own quirks, strengths and weaknesses. Don't get hung up on dxo mark, shadow lift, etc. At the end of the day the camera you have is still amazing if you take the time to learn how to best use it.


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## AlanF (Jul 31, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> cpsico,
> the second last image (img_0695) really stands out for me. what was the cam used?
> thanks.
> 
> ...



That was from the camera without the electronic level.


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## SecureGSM (Jul 31, 2017)

good one, Alan. I was impressed by the colour rendition in that image. Old Canon colour profile?



AlanF said:


> SecureGSM said:
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> > cpsico,
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## Aglet (Jul 31, 2017)

0690, middle shot first post, is very noisy - the sky looks like gravel and the jpg compression has just made the noise look even worse. And this is a downsampled file.
What ISO was that shot at and with what camera? Cuz it sure isn't _nice_ large print capable w-o a lot of NR applied.

As for many of the others... who can tell what from downsized images with crushed shadows?
not the sort of look I like; excessively contrasty and no tonality in the shadows, over-compressed jpg on top of it.

And generally under-exposed where fill-light wasn't used.

You're reminding me why I left Canon for daylight landscape shots. ;D


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## cpsico (Jul 31, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> cpsico,
> the second last image (img_0695) really stands out for me. what was the cam used?
> thanks.
> 
> ...



5D mark II with a Tiffan enhancing filter. The sun was nice slow so the light was almost perfect


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## cpsico (Jul 31, 2017)

Aglet said:


> 0690, middle shot first post, is very noisy - the sky looks like gravel and the jpg compression has just made the noise look even worse. And this is a downsampled file.
> What ISO was that shot at and with what camera? Cuz it sure isn't _nice_ large print capable w-o a lot of NR applied.
> 
> As for many of the others... who can tell what from downsized images with crushed shadows?
> ...


ISO 320 canon 6d with a polarizing filter.


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## cpsico (Jul 31, 2017)

The first 5 are a 5d IV, 6-8 are the same lense 1D III for 6&7 last is 1Ds III. Is the 5d IV the best damn canon camera? Heck yes it's amazing and far more versatile than anything else. I just think some of the dxo shadow,underexposed by 5 stops thing lift gets a little silly sometimes


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## YuengLinger (Jul 31, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> You mean the people driving around in Ford, Chev, Toyoto, and Hyundai are all getting the same ride experience, more or less. Well, who'd have thought that. And the doors all fit and close really nicely. Well, I'll be! Oh but I forgot, one has 20 more horsepower. Guess the others are actually junk.
> 
> Jack



Funny and exactly, Jack.

I've long suspected that "passionate" photographers, especially the most successful, must have OCD. Musicians and software engineers too, among others. Some people call this perfectionism, and it can lead to absurd concerns about gear and specs. And marketing departments know this, whether for photography, automobiles, computers, TV's, heck, even kitchen equipment and ingredients for cooking.

Thanks, cpsico, for gently reminding us that knowing how to use the gear is more important than the specs!


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## cpsico (Jul 31, 2017)

Aglet said:


> 0690, middle shot first post, is very noisy - the sky looks like gravel and the jpg compression has just made the noise look even worse. And this is a downsampled file.
> What ISO was that shot at and with what camera? Cuz it sure isn't _nice_ large print capable w-o a lot of NR applied.
> 
> As for many of the others... who can tell what from downsized images with crushed shadows?
> ...


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 31, 2017)

Nice sunsets!


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 31, 2017)

Aglet said:


> not the sort of look I like



The sort of look Aglet doesnt' like:








The sort of look Aglet likes:


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## BillB (Jul 31, 2017)

YuengLinger said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > You mean the people driving around in Ford, Chev, Toyoto, and Hyundai are all getting the same ride experience, more or less. Well, who'd have thought that. And the doors all fit and close really nicely. Well, I'll be! Oh but I forgot, one has 20 more horsepower. Guess the others are actually junk.
> ...



In addition to marketers, people fishing for clicks on their websites know that bashing new equipment can attract attention, along with magic numbers of dubious significance. Endless hours of fun.


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## Aglet (Jul 31, 2017)

cpsico said:


> ISO 320 canon 6d with a polarizing filter.



PL filter use is betrayed but the sudden shift in sky appearance from left to right but even I'm surprised at how much chunky noise there is in the sky at 320 ISO!


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## Aglet (Jul 31, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > not the sort of look I like
> ...



ARGHHH!! My eyes! My eyeses! PAINful! 

That second image... No Samsung, Sigma or Sony cameras in my inventory...
Hmmm... I may be averse to esses


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## dak723 (Jul 31, 2017)

YuengLinger said:


> I've long suspected that "passionate" photographers, especially the most successful, must have OCD. Musicians and software engineers too, among others. Some people call this perfectionism, and it can lead to absurd concerns about gear and specs. And marketing departments know this, whether for photography, automobiles, computers, TV's, heck, even kitchen equipment and ingredients for cooking.
> 
> Thanks, cpsico, for gently reminding us that knowing how to use the gear is more important than the specs!



I beg to disagree. While there certainly are some perfectionists among professionals (whether photographers, musicians, etc.) it is the enthusiast "Wannabe's" that are the ones who are technology obsessed. Most professionals are quite aware that the gear is NOT the number one priority and that they can do their professional job with virtually any pro level equipment.


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## pwp (Aug 1, 2017)

dak723 said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > I've long suspected that "passionate" photographers, especially the most successful, must have OCD. Musicians and software engineers too, among others. Some people call this perfectionism, and it can lead to absurd concerns about gear and specs. And marketing departments know this, whether for photography, automobiles, computers, TV's, heck, even kitchen equipment and ingredients for cooking.
> ...



I suspect you've nailed it Dak723. Out of the dozens of very successful professionals I am associated with, a good number of them may not even be aware that the 5D Mark 4 even exists. Let alone that a 6D Mark 2 has been released. They'll look around at the latest pro-level releases when it's time to upgrade. The rest of the time they're far more focused on refining their creativity, running their businesses, setting up shoots, client relations, staff management, marketing and all the other un-glamorous backend stuff that is a reality when operating a small business. Most could deliver a very decent result for a client using an iPhone 7. Or an ancient EOS 20D. Not that they would. Working with the latest high end cameras offers obvious technical advantages, a positive client perception and hell, new stuff is fun and good for the soul!

Gear obsessed perfectionists whether professional or enthusiast do us all a great service with microscopic analysis and careful pixel peeping. Then they'll report their findings here on CR for the rest of us! All viewpoints, opinions and positions are valid and add up to a truly fascinating and informative diversity.

-pw


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## cpsico (Aug 1, 2017)

Aglet said:


> cpsico said:
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> 
> > ISO 320 canon 6d with a polarizing filter.
> ...


Meet the complaint dept lol, yes there is noise in the sky but in the smaller picture most of that is jpeg compression. Also the standard profile seems to bring out more noise in the blue sky than the faithful profile. Butter smooth blue sky's always compress weird in jpeg. A tripod and bracketed shots would be still probably better than crazy shadow lift. I just don't like the look.


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## Aglet (Aug 1, 2017)

pwp said:


> dak723 said:
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*
You hit all the nails squarely on the head there. *

My pro shooter buddies who make a daily living with their gear consult with me on technical issues when they consider equipment for upgrading but they're happily wearing out the shutters on _older_ (mostly Canon) gear and delivering images to those who pay them to do so.

My enthusiast and art types (& I'm one of them) spend a lot of time scrutinizing technical issues that affect what we want to do with the images we make. The majority of this crowd that I know uses ABC, FWIW. Mostly Nikon and some ML systems are becoming popular.

The "documentarians" shoot whatever they're comfortable with and don't obsess over their equipment capabilities. They seem to collect the least amount of gear too.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 1, 2017)

Aglet said:


> My pro shooter buddies who make a daily living with their gear consult with me on technical issues when they consider equipment for upgrading but they're happily wearing out the shutters on _older_ (mostly Canon) gear and delivering images to those who pay them to do so.
> 
> My enthusiast and art types (& I'm one of them) spend a lot of time scrutinizing technical issues that affect what we want to do with the images we make. The majority of this crowd that I know uses ABC, FWIW. Mostly Nikon and some ML systems are becoming popular.
> 
> The "documentarians" shoot whatever they're comfortable with and don't obsess over their equipment capabilities. They seem to collect the least amount of gear too.



Interesting. When I get together with photographer friends — professionals, enthusiasts, and/or artists — we tend to discuss things like composition, locations, posing, and lighting.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > My pro shooter buddies who make a daily living with their gear consult with me on technical issues when they consider equipment for upgrading but they're happily wearing out the shutters on _older_ (mostly Canon) gear and delivering images to those who pay them to do so.
> ...



+1 with Neuro, plus PP through LR and PS


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 1, 2017)

Well, there you go; it takes all types. I'm with dak723, as an enthusiast I'm always hoping the gear will make up for my numerous shortcomings and then I find out it only makes life more complicated, but I still can't restrain myself from buying!  

However, for us enthusiast types what really is most important is _having fun_! I really enjoy my revived hobby and being out in nature!

Jack


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## Jopa (Aug 1, 2017)

Dylan777 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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My pro "photo" friends mostly talk about DYI lighting they make from parts found in Home Depot and Photoshop. I'm not sure if they aware of DR, I will have to ask them. And that's not a joke.


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## Aglet (Aug 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > My pro shooter buddies who make a daily living with their gear consult with me on technical issues when they consider equipment for upgrading but they're happily wearing out the shutters on _older_ (mostly Canon) gear and delivering images to those who pay them to do so.
> ...


Well that's probably cuz you have a lot to learn in those areas.


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## pwp (Aug 1, 2017)

Aglet said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. When I get together with photographer friends — professionals, enthusiasts, and/or artists — we tend to discuss things like composition, locations, posing, and lighting.
> ...


It's often said that the more you know, the more you realize you don't know. I'll happily defer to far greater minds than mine here. Don't we all have a lot to learn? It's more often people fresh out of university who think they know it all. Those who have succeeded in any field you care to name and have continued to succeed and grow after multiple decades will know and recognize how central lifelong learning is if you want your abilities to evolve.

Whoops! Getting far too philosophical here, we're supposed to be photographical! 

-pw


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## sanj (Aug 1, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> You mean the people driving around in Ford, Chev, Toyoto, and Hyundai are all getting the same ride experience, more or less. Well, who'd have thought that. And the doors all fit and close really nicely. Well, I'll be! Oh but I forgot, one has 20 more horsepower. Guess the others are actually junk.
> 
> Jack



So you could make out which is which camera when you saw the photos? 
Or you saying photographers can't take good photos with the mentioned cameras? 
Don't get your point.


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## sanj (Aug 1, 2017)

YuengLinger said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > You mean the people driving around in Ford, Chev, Toyoto, and Hyundai are all getting the same ride experience, more or less. Well, who'd have thought that. And the doors all fit and close really nicely. Well, I'll be! Oh but I forgot, one has 20 more horsepower. Guess the others are actually junk.
> ...



OCD for what? Gear or photography? I have passion for gear, I get the best I can afford. Currently have 1dx2, 5d4, Sony a6500 with bunch of excellent glass. But lately I prefer to OCD about photography as the art. Not gear. Maturing with age I guess.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 1, 2017)

Aglet said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > Aglet said:
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True, there's always more to learn and improve. Only an arrogant ass thinks they have nothing to learn.


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## cpsico (Aug 1, 2017)

Sometimes it's just better to find something you like, take the camera out of the bag and take a picture. Then when no one is looking you can pleasure yourself to dxomark if needed (pun intended). I have seen pictures taken by photographers far above my skill level with cameras far below today's greatest offerings. They understood the capabilities of there gear and payed careful attention to lighting, mood, expressions for shots of people and for landscapes other techniques you all know. Not having a 20 stop dynamic range camera at ISO 12,800 has never stopped anyone from enjoying photography.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 1, 2017)

sanj said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > You mean the people driving around in Ford, Chev, Toyoto, and Hyundai are all getting the same ride experience, more or less. Well, who'd have thought that. And the doors all fit and close really nicely. Well, I'll be! Oh but I forgot, one has 20 more horsepower. Guess the others are actually junk.
> ...



Being  here. I'm still learning to notice the finer points in photography, especially composition. I know people with money burning holes in their pocket will by the "best" for whatever reason and it's their business what they do, but the point is that it's probably bragging rights since all perform very well and in the case of 20 HP it is insignificant (that wouldn't stop some people from holding it up as sooo important).

My move from 6D to 1DX2 was based on fps and 1D features that I loved from the 1D4 and probably far exceeds my capability but I'm determined to take advantage of what it offers me (oh, I also needed F8 focus). It was the 400DO II that I really wanted most and I'm thrilled with that move. If the 6D2 had been a known then, I might have jumped at it but 6.5 fps still isn't my idea of overly fast. The plan is to get a 6D2 as back up.

Gear does make more of a difference if you're talking distant wildlife that is flitting around, as you know. However, the 6D gave a lot for the price and I've been happy with it as a lighter choice than the 5D3. For IQ, I was content but thinking more MP for cropping. For me the 5D4 was so close in the running but fps ...

Jack


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## Aglet (Aug 2, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Aglet said:
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> > Well that's probably cuz you have a lot to learn in those areas.
> ...



I think there's more irony in your statement than you realize. LOL


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## YuengLinger (Aug 2, 2017)

Aglet said:


> pwp said:
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These are all excellent points. I did say that the OCD personality "can" lead to an obsession with gear, but that would distract those obsessed with capturing images. Clearly, if the obsession to capture is not balanced with business and people skills, a photographer will not thrive financially, and perhaps won't even share their work. Consider, for example, Vivian Maier, the street photographer with thousands of images hidden in storage, discovered only after her death.

So, yes, the obsession with gear is different from the obsession with capturing images, and likely counterproductive.


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## cpsico (Aug 2, 2017)

Found this thread here and have been testing recovering highlights vs shadows. I will definitely be adding some "overexposed " shots in my scenes. Any thoughts?
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9758.0


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## cpsico (Aug 2, 2017)

Screen shot of the above mentioned thread, not my pictures or thread.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 2, 2017)

cpsico, interesting and useful. I will not be so quick to toss those extreme failures as in the past.

Jack


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 2, 2017)

cpsico said:


> Found this thread here and have been testing recovering highlights vs shadows. I will definitely be adding some "overexposed " shots in my scenes. Any thoughts?
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9758.0



I'm guessing my thoughts are not along the line of what you expected to provoke.  

WOW, reading something from 2012 (before I joined) is quite a revelation (will read the intended content later). Funny how CR gear threads go round and round in much the same vein. There has been so much useful information and likewise so much useless bickering which simply wastes everyone's time. The heavyweights have contributed a lot of expertise and then we have the totally ignorant attacking them with nonsense. 

Of course a PhD etc. doesn't mean a person is always right and neither does it excuse rudeness but what has stuck out for me is how borderline morons (a bit extreme I know) come out of the woodwork (I always check how many posts) and contribute by condemning those who are much more knowledgeable and have a history of sharing their knowledge. With their real names hidden, of course, they demonstrate their ignorance while one would assume imagining they are great. At least Donald Trump does it without anonymity but the result is the same. These people constantly look like fools but that never registers! 

Sorry but this little rant is in light of recent 6D2 threads that have, shall we say, not exactly been time well spent. Today is my _unnotify_ day for a good number of threads. I need to be shooting more.

Jack


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## cpsico (Aug 2, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> cpsico said:
> 
> 
> > Found this thread here and have been testing recovering highlights vs shadows. I will definitely be adding some "overexposed " shots in my scenes. Any thoughts?
> ...


I kind of had the recent 6dII in mind when I started this thread, I was so so "proud" of my high dynamic range 5D IV but then I looked at other stuff I already had done and thought, yes this is great camera in every way.....but have I truly even used my old gear to its fullest potential and the honest answer was no. I need to be a better photographer first and a gear head second.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 2, 2017)

cpsico, my gear far exceeds what my capabilities are/will ever be as well. Canon glass was the reason my friend and I moved more recently to Canon from Nikon. For me the 400 DO II is a dream come true.

Pros have to be serious but for me it's all about an amateur enthusiast having FUN outdoors.

Jack


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