# Body for Time-lapse photography



## Sporgon (Oct 3, 2016)

I have a job to do which involves, among other things, producing a time-lapse photography video of a very large construction, basically groundworks and then the building. 

I have a question for those of you that are into time-lapse: what would be the best camera for this job ? It doesn't have to be FF, better to be Canon unless someone has a suggestion for a camera that has a fixed lens, then brand doesn't matter. FOV wants to be about 28 mil on crop. The camera could be removed each night and replace in the morning, so it would be reasonably safe. 

The budget for the overall job on this is substantial and I could purchase the camera for the job and then sell it afterwards. At the moment it looks to me as if a used 7DII might be best. 

Any thoughts ? I'm interested to hear from you guys who do this type of thing.


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## axtstern (Oct 3, 2016)

The 80d has a build in interval timer ans you Can get a cheap underwater case from a predecessor model.
You will not e able to reach all nottons but tha is not neccesary because of The timer. This was your camera lens combo is water and dust protected.


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## kingrobertii (Oct 3, 2016)

I would look into getting a used 5D II and put Magic Lantern on it and use the intervalometer that is in the program. That will only set you back about $800 and would be worth it. A lot of newer cameras already have that feature, but the less you spend, the more you earn. I've used my 5D II tons with the ML intervalometer and never had a problem (except a glitch that might shoot an extra frame every now-and-then).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 3, 2016)

Since high resolution is not what you are looking for, a camera with fewer MP will have smaller files which helps to eliminate memory capacity issues.

Then, there is the issue of power. Will you have AC power, must you use battery power? Depending on how many exposures you are capturing each day, that may or may not be a issue. 

I assume there is enough light for a crop camera to capture a image at your shutter speed and ISO, it is something to check off the list.

There are any number of intervalometers available for triggering, so that is something easy to handle for Canon DSLR's.


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## Don Haines (Oct 3, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> I have a job to do which involves, among other things, producing a time-lapse photography video of a very large construction, basically groundworks and then the building.
> 
> I have a question for those of you that are into time-lapse: what would be the best camera for this job ? It doesn't have to be FF, better to be Canon unless someone has a suggestion for a camera that has a fixed lens, then brand doesn't matter. FOV wants to be about 28 mil on crop. The camera could be removed each night and replace in the morning, so it would be reasonably safe.
> 
> ...



How many images?

let's say 1 per 15 seconds.... that's 240 per hour and that's 2400 per day (assuming you start and stop just before the days work and just after..... That's 12,000 per week without weekends..... if it is a 6 month construction, then that's 312,000 images and somewhere along the way you have killed your shutter.....

For that reason I STRONGLY!!!!!!! recommend a mirrorless camera.

It is going to rain. You want a well sealed camera, either something like a GoPro in a casing or a waterproof P/S camera.

You want to put a sun/weather shield over the camera to protect it from overheating in the sun or to stop rain from beading/streaking on the lens..... and it has to keep those [email protected]#^#!$#%# pigeons from S___ting on your camera. (trust me on this one.... I know from experience  )

You need power. Preferably an AC supply (which you WILL have interrupted during the project) to charge a 12V battery.... to run a 12VDC to USB converter.. to power your camera....

You need a BIG memory card to hold images for as long as possible between changes of the memory card.

If the job is important enough, you may want multiple setups to handle multiple angles.....

Your setup can not be steal-able or it will "walk away" during the project....


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## Sporgon (Oct 5, 2016)

Thanks for the replies guys. 



axtstern said:


> The 80d has a build in interval timer ans you Can get a cheap underwater case from a predecessor model.
> You will not e able to reach all nottons but tha is not neccesary because of The timer. This was your camera lens combo is water and dust protected.



Good point on the water proof cover; I didn't realise the 80D had the timing feature.



kingrobertii said:


> I would look into getting a used 5D II and put Magic Lantern on it and use the intervalometer that is in the program. That will only set you back about $800 and would be worth it. A lot of newer cameras already have that feature, but the less you spend, the more you earn. I've used my 5D II tons with the ML intervalometer and never had a problem (except a glitch that might shoot an extra frame every now-and-then).



I already have a (very much ) used 5DII ! It is still one of my main cameras, and the thought of replacing the operating program makes me go all jittery 



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Since high resolution is not what you are looking for, a camera with fewer MP will have smaller files which helps to eliminate memory capacity issues.
> 
> Then, there is the issue of power. Will you have AC power, must you use battery power? Depending on how many exposures you are capturing each day, that may or may not be a issue.
> 
> ...



Good points but I would definitely be shooting this is jpeg, so I'm not overly worried about the raw file size



Don Haines said:


> How many images?
> 
> let's say 1 per 15 seconds.... that's 240 per hour and that's 2400 per day (assuming you start and stop just before the days work and just after..... That's 12,000 per week without weekends..... if it is a 6 month construction, then that's 312,000 images and somewhere along the way you have killed your shutter.....
> 
> ...



Thanks Don, good point about the shutter actions over that period of time. One every fifteen seconds sounds a lot for this type of thing. Is that a kind of standard for time lapse ? I would have thought I'd be using more like one every thirty seconds. However it is still a lot of exposures ! I can see a P&S would make sense.


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## tron (Oct 5, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> ...I already have a (very much ) used 5DII ! It is still one of my main cameras, and the thought of replacing the operating program makes me go all jittery
> ...


If you are talking about ML installation do not worry. FYI it does not eliminate the original firmware although the ML installation is done via firmware update. It is a program that runs in parallel with the firmware that's why you keep the original Canon menus and you get additional menus (by pressing the del button).
I have used it in my 5DII. The fact that ML reports the shutter count facilitated the selling of the camera. Right now I have ML installed on both my 5D3 cameras. I do not use every feature of course. I like timelapses, Bulb mode and Dual ISO. Recently I noticed the RAW highlights alert since the highlights alert we get in our cameras are based on jpeg (even if we are shooting in raw) and there is some latitude we can take advantage of if we want to shoot ETTR (By the way ML has ETTR settings that I never learned!)


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## d (Oct 5, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> Thanks Don, good point about the shutter actions over that period of time. One every fifteen seconds sounds a lot for this type of thing. Is that a kind of standard for time lapse ? I would have thought I'd be using more like one every thirty seconds. However it is still a lot of exposures ! I can see a P&S would make sense.



Hey Sporgon,

As far as capture frequency goes, a good idea is to work backwards from the approximate duration you (or your client) wants the final production to fun for, if they can indeed be that specific - and then factoring in playback FPS, the total length of time of the project you're capturing etc. to get you in the ballpark for your capture frequency. e.g. If an 8 hour work day needs to playback in 10 seconds at 30FPS you'd need 300 frames so one capture every 96 seconds by my math.


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## scyrene (Oct 5, 2016)

The following I believe to be true, but I've written this from memory, so apologies for any inaccuracies...

I think all the newest Canon DSLRs have the built in time lapse function, but it's limited in some fundamental ways - it creates a movie, but doesn't save the individual images; you can do some long ones, with a lot of flexibility with the intervals, but the maximum number of frames is 3600; you can't alter the exposure parameters once it's started, so big changes of light levels can ruin it; but it takes relatively little memory and doesn't use up the shutter life (it's done in movie mode).

Magic Lantern saves the sub frames, and gives more flexibility as to quality (you can use jpegs or raws, etc), but this obviously requires more memory; it's also slightly fiddlier to use, but not overly so; you can use things like bulb ramping so it can adjust to changing light levels; it does use the shutter (I can't remember if you can do it in Live View mode). It also subjectively seems to run the battery down quicker but any long term time lapse would require a mains power source.


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## lion rock (Oct 5, 2016)

One important point:
We did a time lapse on our new building while it was under construction and show the resultant video in the main hallway on a TV and was effecting people with propensity for convulsions because of the "jerky motions." We had to take the video down, and replace it with a regular video edited from small sections of the building process.
-r


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## timmy_650 (Oct 6, 2016)

In Utah I ran into a few people at the national Parks who were doing them. They used older bodies Like t2i ML or the xsi. Got a cheap grip and set up a few of them. They were costing $200-400. So if they went missing or you burned out the shutter it wasn't a big deal .

I would think you would want 30-45 seconds, if not longer for a large construction site. Bc you probably want about 5 min video tops. So 5 min video is 300 seconds and lets say you do 29 frame per second that would be 8,700 pictures you need. (I suck at math It might be wrong)


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## Sporgon (Oct 9, 2016)

Thanks for the advice guys, it's all very helpful !


tron said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > ...I already have a (very much ) used 5DII ! It is still one of my main cameras, and the thought of replacing the operating program makes me go all jittery
> ...



Thanks for this info torn. I guess my 5DII is now pretty worthless anyway so I might go ahead and try magic lantern. If it brick'd the camera I'd have the perfect excuse to buy a 5Ds 



d said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Don, good point about the shutter actions over that period of time. One every fifteen seconds sounds a lot for this type of thing. Is that a kind of standard for time lapse ? I would have thought I'd be using more like one every thirty seconds. However it is still a lot of exposures ! I can see a P&S would make sense.
> ...



That's good advice - appreciated !



scyrene said:


> The following I believe to be true, but I've written this from memory, so apologies for any inaccuracies...
> 
> I think all the newest Canon DSLRs have the built in time lapse function, but it's limited in some fundamental ways - it creates a movie, but doesn't save the individual images; you can do some long ones, with a lot of flexibility with the intervals, but the maximum number of frames is 3600; you can't alter the exposure parameters once it's started, so big changes of light levels can ruin it; but it takes relatively little memory and doesn't use up the shutter life (it's done in movie mode).
> 
> Magic Lantern saves the sub frames, and gives more flexibility as to quality (you can use jpegs or raws, etc), but this obviously requires more memory; it's also slightly fiddlier to use, but not overly so; you can use things like bulb ramping so it can adjust to changing light levels; it does use the shutter (I can't remember if you can do it in Live View mode). It also subjectively seems to run the battery down quicker but any long term time lapse would require a mains power source.



Interesting, I didn't realise this was how the new bodies worked. I'll bear that in mind. 



lion rock said:


> One important point:
> We did a time lapse on our new building while it was under construction and show the resultant video in the main hallway on a TV and was effecting people with propensity for convulsions because of the "jerky motions." We had to take the video down, and replace it with a regular video edited from small sections of the building process.
> -r



The way I imagine doing this it will be pretty smooth, but thanks for the heads up. 



timmy_650 said:


> In Utah I ran into a few people at the national Parks who were doing them. They used older bodies Like t2i ML or the xsi. Got a cheap grip and set up a few of them. They were costing $200-400. So if they went missing or you burned out the shutter it wasn't a big deal .
> 
> I would think you would want 30-45 seconds, if not longer for a large construction site. Bc you probably want about 5 min video tops. So 5 min video is 300 seconds and lets say you do 29 frame per second that would be 8,700 pictures you need. (I suck at math It might be wrong)



But if it goes missing I lose the card !!

5 minutes tops; I agree, I think that is about right and will work from there. Thanks.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 9, 2016)

Hi Sporgon,

Don't worry about ML, I use it on my EOS-M and have done since I got it. Never any issues and the time lapse features are great.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2016)

Having done similar projects, some advice...

- Taking shots every 15-30 seconds sounds like it would be fine. Playing back at 30 fps, that would be about a minute and a half per day of video on the 30 second interval. You will very likely be making a final product that is using only a frame every 2 minutes or so, but having the extra frames would allow you to make good time lapses of some of the shorter processes as well. 

- I recommend buying a real intervalometer that plugs into the camera. In fact, they're cheap... buy two. They generally have much more functionality than the Canon built-in intervalometers. Always have a spare ready to go, as you will drop frames/days if one breaks. I have not developed any greater preference for my $80 intervalometer over my $19 intervalometers. 

- Have an extra body ready that will have the same field of view. The liability here is that a body gets taken or broken. Just be ready.

- You can buy a power cord for the bodies, and you can also buy an inverter that will run off of a 12v car battery. This will give you up to 15,000 exposures safely with one charge. Buy two batteries to have one charge while the other is running. This way, you can check on the camera every few days. 

- Be conscious of the exposure settings. If the lighting is decently consistent, you can use Av. Auto ISO gives you a little more wiggle room too. You probably want to have an effect where the exposure is normed throughout, despite changing environmental conditions. Otherwise, the brightness will shift very quickly adding to the frenetic look. 

- I find that using the D+ feature on Canon bodies is very useful for unattended cameras, letting the camera adjust the highlights about a stop.

- Mark your tripod placement so that if/when someone moves it, you can precisely replace it. I also find that using Superclamps can be good for putting a timelapse camera in obscure places where no one notices it. 

- My recommendation for bodies would be a couple used 6Ds. I'd probably run them both redundantly the whole time (and not expect the shutter to go on either) and then sell them after the project. It would be the equivalent of a $200 rental for the whole deal. If you wanted to go super cheap/crop, you could use SL1s. I've done a lot of interval work with a couple of those, and they're seriously tough, and the sensor is about as good as that in the T5i. You can get one used for about $250. I bought battery grips for them (making them look hugely funny), which gives me about 3,000 shots per sled of batteries. One advantage they have is a much more silent shutter for those times you want to put the camera in a place no one will notice. 

Good luck!


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2016)

PS: This might be a controversial idea, but I don't think intervalometer exposures are quite as meaningful as regular exposures when it comes to using shutter clicks as a measure of a camera's effective age. 

In other words, when you have a very regular clicking going on, it doesn't connote the wear and tear on the body that other types of shooting provide. It's sort of like comparing the mileage on a truck that has been used entirely for highway driving versus one that has been for commuting on back country roads. I've taken about 1 million shots in the past two or three years with intervalometer work, and I've not yet had to replace a shutter. 

Could be that I'm just lucky, but I suspect this sort of shooting doesn't count quite as much for wear.


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## Busted Knuckles (Oct 9, 2016)

I would aim this for 16k or 20k exposures - there will be plenty of days where you can't see a difference and you will need to edit the final product regardless.

As this a pretty small shutter count, that is no longer a concern. 

In the post production, you can smooth out some of the jerks and jitters in the transitions - how many frames do you let an image repeat, if keep it 1:1 then there is a lot of jerking - you can slow down the the time lapse at critical points, you might have a couple of key days be 1 taken frame = 3 or 6 or 9 frames in the ending time lapse.

Security is a big item, as is the A.C. to the camera. I bet you are going to be using a ND filter to lengthen the exposure time so as to introduce some of the motion blur that makes watching a movie easier to watch (take a regular video of a water fountain at 1/500 shutter speed and then another at 1/30th to see the difference) It is not likely that the owner is really interested in being able to identify individual workers, the big parts tend to stand still or move slowly)

I would lean to one of the Canon Ms, as it will run ML, small, the 22 f2 is pretty great lense, and you can get an A.C. adapter kit cheap.

Depending on the precise sun angles, starts and stop times and then also the changing weather - ML exposure ramping will greatly smooth out these changing exposures.

Clearly several practice days are in order.

Best of luck


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## retroreflection (Oct 9, 2016)

Some additional thoughts;
Meet with owner, architect, and general contractor together. Choose angle(s) that will help tell the story (they know the planned story, you don't, yet). Be prepared to move at stages in the project - i.e. a crane may need to sit in front of the camera for one phase. Also, make sure the GC sees the need for this time lapse as you don't want to be enemies. You might also change the frame rate or lens for certain phases, that could sell features of the property, the architecture, and the construction. Don't be unethical, but you could be doing jobs for several firms at once. They can use these videos in sales pitches.
Look for low traffic, high vantage points to mount the camera (thieves are lazy). A neighboring building has advantages. There will probably be construction offices in trailers, as well as temporary light poles. Mounting on these might work. If a ladder is needed to access it, you would need to be cleared by the GC safety team to get to the camera. Try to bolt down to a permanent bracket, that makes replacement easiest.


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## Josh Denver (Oct 11, 2016)

A body as cheap as possible. Used. An 1100D (free, practically) + Magilantern = extremely sophisticated 5K timelapse machine. 

This way you can get 2-3-4 and get different angles and make the outcome much more dynamic. 

7DII is waaaay overkill when a used 1100D/t3i will perfectly do the required job. 

And no, don't fear reliability it's as reliable as canon's own firmware.


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