# How would one go about....Macro wireless slave speedlites



## slclick (Jan 31, 2014)

How could I possibly, and I acknowledge that I may not be able to, build a wireless setup such as the example in the RRS banner below, yet on the cheap?Well, Cheap is relative and great Macro flash setups are never cheap unless you want them to be MacGuyver-esque! And I want wireless and very clean. I'm looking for under $1k

I would think my starting point would be a 600 and a pair of 270's plus hardware. Am I correct?

Thanks!


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2014)

You could buy the Nikon gear that's pictured above. 

First off, do you want the on-camera flash to contribute to lighting the scene? Generally, the angle is bad, and the distance from the macro subject means the light is harsh vs. the softer lighting you get with a flash close up. Personally, I prefer to get the light out next to or over the subject, like this:







In that case, I'm using the MT-24EX twin flash as an optical master to control the 600EX-RT mounted on the RRS bracket.

If you do want the on-camera flash to contribute, you could use a 600, 580, or 550 with the pair of 270's. If you don't want the on-camera flash for lighting the scene, you could use an ST-E2, 90EX, or even the pop-up flash on some cameras as the optical master. 

As for mounting the 270EX flashes, I'd recommend against going with the RRS bracket setup. While I like RRS gear, and obviously have one of their flash brackets, IMO it doesn't provide sufficient flexibility for macro use (I use mine for a better beamer setup with a 600mm lens, mainly I just need to get the flash high over the lens). Instead, I'd recommend a pair of Wimberley F-2 brackets, which are what's holding the twin flash heads in the above image. They give you a lot of positioning flexibility, and are robust enough (I can set them up with 600EX-RT's on them, and trigger with the ST-E3-RT).

Overall, I think you're on the right track with the 270s if you want wireless. The two 270EX II flashes will run you $340, and the two Wimberley F-2 brackets will run you another $340, leaving $320 from your $1K budget. Note that if you don't have a collared lens with an Arca-Swiss type plate, you'll need either a lens plate for a collar or a perpendicular plate for the camera ($55 / $85, respectively). Assuming you need the perpendicular plate, you're down to ~$250 for an optical master - you can get a used 580EX (I or II) for around that if you want the master flash to light the scene, or a new 90EX for much less if you only need master capability.


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## slclick (Jan 31, 2014)

Once again you have answered my questions with aplomb and were very thorough with options, Thank you! 

I am using a 5D3 and would like to find a gently used ST-E2 and pair of 270's as I do not want the on board flash to light the scene.. My only other issue and question is the ability to use an extender arm with the MT 24EX to get the reach the F-2 arms could give, is that possible?

I'll research the total cost of your rec's. 

Thanks again


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2014)

slclick said:


> My only other issue and question is the ability to use an extender arm with the MT 24EX to get the reach the F-2 arms could give, is that possible?



Not sure I understand what you're asking… I can tell you that with the power unit of the MT-24EX attached to the hotshoe, the coiled cords of the twin heads extend pretty far - more than far enough to cover the full reach of the Wimberley F-2 brackets, even with them mounted at the end of a lens plate on the 100L (which puts them further from the body than the perpendicular plate option).


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## slclick (Jan 31, 2014)

I guess my reading comprehension isn't matching my coffee consumption because you answered my 2nd question in your response and the picture you added does the same. 

Yes, the cords were my question not the brackets. 

So a MT 24EX with F-2 pair would be the other option. That's a grand right there. Basically I can't see myself shooting with the flat light of a ring light any longer and need a better macro slash setup.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2014)

slclick said:


> So a MT 24EX with F-2 pair would be the other option. That's a grand right there. Basically I can't see myself shooting with the flat light of a ring light any longer and need a better macro slash setup.



Yep - except that at the outset you said no cords… 

They are a bit of a hassle, but the heads are smaller than the 270EX which is better. The power of the MT-24EX is sufficient since the heads are very close to the subject. With the twin flash, you also have the option of an even smaller setup, using the included mounting ring that attaches to the front of the lens (you need a Macrolite adapter for some lenses) instead of the brackets, although the latter give you a lot more flexibility in positioning the heads.


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## slclick (Jan 31, 2014)

I also will consider the Manfrotto 330B Bracket and the 270 pair with the Transmitter for ~ 675 

I don't think I will get the flexibility with this due to the lack of articulation that the F-2 brackets have but still a pretty good setup nonetheless.

Anyone using something like this?


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## mrzero (Jan 31, 2014)

Also, a270EXII can only be set to one group in slave mode. This means you can't adjust their relative power A:B like you can with the dedicated macro twin flashes.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 31, 2014)

As mrzero points out if you got two 270EX/II's you couldn't separate them in groups, they would always fore the same power which often times isn't ideal, you could adjust the power by varying the distance, but then you are into manual flash only too, you have to drop ETTL for that to work.

The 320EX is the smallest Canon flash that does allow you to assign A-B-C groups, so I'd look to getting those instead.

I am putting my ST-E2 up on eBay this week, having moved to the RT system all my 550EX's and ST-E2 are going to new owners.

Personally I think the 550EX is far and away the best bang for the buck in the Canon range and with the versatility and power it has it is the flash for the cost conscious Canon creative  Even if it is a bit bigger than the 320, it is worth it.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2014)

mrzero said:


> Also, a270EXII can only be set to one group in slave mode. This means you can't adjust their relative power A:B like you can with the dedicated macro twin flashes.



Ouch, I wasn't aware of that limitation - thanks for pointing that out! But with the 270EX II being fixed to Group A, and thus a pair of them always firing at the same power level, even varying the distance a little bit isn't going to do much to alleviate the 'flat light of a ring light' that the OP wants to avoid. For me, that would nix the idea of using a pair of 270's for this purpose. Going to a pair of 320's or 430's (which can be set to A/B/C groups) would add bulk and weight, and be a lot less cost-effective (although the 'video' LED light of the 320 would likely come in handy as a modeling light).


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## slclick (Jan 31, 2014)

As I search I find more and more 'possible' solutions such as the following

YONGNUO YN-E3-RT 
Manfrotto 330 B Bracket
Canon 430EXii x 2 (Own one already)

Total cost $450


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## mrzero (Jan 31, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> mrzero said:
> 
> 
> > Also, a270EXII can only be set to one group in slave mode. This means you can't adjust their relative power A:B like you can with the dedicated macro twin flashes.
> ...



I am planning on adding a 270EXII, but I keep hoping that Canon announces radio versions of it and the 430. That would allow you to assemble a full radio equivalent of the MT with a master and two little slaves.



slclick said:


> As I search I find more and more 'possible' solutions such as the following
> 
> YONGNUO YN-E3-RT
> Manfrotto 330 B Bracket
> ...



The YN-E3-RT is a radio master, but the 430EXII's are optical slaves. You could do it with their version of the ST-E2. Nobody has RT flashes smaller than the flagship yet.


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## slclick (Jan 31, 2014)

mrzero said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > mrzero said:
> ...



Gotcha thanks


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## privatebydesign (Jan 31, 2014)

slclick said:


> As I search I find more and more 'possible' solutions such as the following
> 
> YONGNUO YN-E3-RT
> Manfrotto 330 B Bracket
> ...


ST-E2 for $80 or so
Manfrotto 330 B Bracket $59.00
Another 430EXII for around $200

Total $339


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2014)

slclick said:


> I also will consider the Manfrotto 330B Bracket...



It would be good to hear from someone who uses one of these - I think the lack of flexibility might be somewhat limiting. In particular, the two flashes are fixed in the same plane, so while you can tilt the camera to get one of the flashes somewhere in an arc 'over' your subject (simulating the natural illumination from above that our brain 'expects'), that means the other flash at 180° is 'under' your subject. I do a lot of macro shooting at ground level, so 'under' would require digging a hole in the ground for the other flash.


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## slclick (Jan 31, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I also will consider the Manfrotto 330B Bracket...
> ...



Damn your logic! All it does is take me back to wanting an MT-24EX (which I know is one of the best setups and all I'm doing here is mental masturbation with less flexible and variable light power setups)


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