# Canon EOS M50, More Images and Specifications



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 22, 2018)

```
<strong>Specification updates are in bold.</strong> (<a href="http://digicame-info.com/2018/02/eos-m50.html">via digicame-info</a>)</p>
<p>Here is a more detailed list of specifications for the Canon EOS M50 that we expect to be announced on February 26, 2018 in most places on earth.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS M50 Specifications:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>24.1 Megapixels APS-C CMOS</li>
<li>DIGIC 8</li>
<li>Dual pixel CMOS AF with greatly improved performance
<ul>
<li>AF area is enlarged by about 38% with corresponding lens (100% vertical × 88% wide in live view image display range)</li>
<li>The selectable AF point is a corresponding lens with a maximum of 143 points (99 points for non-compatible lenses)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Pupil detection AF</li>
<li>Dual Sensing IS</li>
<li>Silent mode</li>
<li>DLO in camera</li>
<li>RAW development in camera</li>
<li>Video: 4K 25p / 24p, FHD 60p, HD 120p
<ul>
<li>Frame cutout from 4K movie is possible</li>
<li>5 Axis Electronic Image Stabilizer · Combination IS</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Standard ISO: 100-25600 (extended ISO: 51200)</li>
<li>Continuous: Up to 10 frames / sec (at servo AF: up to 7.4 frames / sec)</li>
<li>EVF: 0.39 type 2.36 million dot OLED</li>
<li>3 type 104 million dots  vari angle touchscreen LCD</li>
<li>Wi-Fi · Bluetooth · NFC installed
<ul>
<li>Wireless remote controller BR-E1 compatible</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>HDMI HDR output compatible</li>
<li>Supports the next-generation CR3 RAW format and the new C-RAW compression format
<ul>
<li>The C – RAW format is 40% smaller in file size than conventional RAW, and it corresponds to in – camera RAW development and digital lens optimizer</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Battery: LP-E 12</li>
<li>Size: 116.3 x 88.1 x 58.7 mm</li>
<li>Weight: 387 g black, 390 g white (including battery and memory card)</li>
<li>Color: Black / White</li>
<li><strong>Dual Sensing IS is a body- The information of the lens and the information of the gyro sensor of the lens are used to correct camera shake and improvement of the effect of 0.5 stops</strong></li>
<li><strong>The new silent mode can shoot without any shutter sound </strong></li>
<li><strong>Auto Improvement of lighting optimizer </strong></li>
<li><strong>Improvement of high brightness side gradation priority function </strong></li>
<li><strong>4K / full HD time lapse function </strong></li>
<li><strong>Microphone jack stereo microphone DM – E1 compatible</strong></li>
<li><strong>Distance between moving subject and background Improvement of AF accuracy during tracking of moving subjects using information </strong></li>
<li><strong>2 Axis Electronic Level </strong></li>
<li><strong>Supports HDR output from HDMI when playing RAW images</strong></li>
</ul>

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## luka28 (Feb 22, 2018)

these are great specs!

can't wait for M5 mark II that camera is going to be a beast!!

now all we need is lenses...


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

luka28 said:


> these are great specs!
> 
> can't wait for M5 mark II that camera is going to be a beast!!
> 
> now all we need is lenses...



I'm not sure what lenses I need. I'm perfectly happy with what i have. Maybe a more upscale 15-45/4. but really? the lenses are great. I don't do primes, and I would assume there'a lot of people like me.

Also what is really missing with this camera is a CINI lens more than anything.

as far as the camera, it's certainly looking like great things for a M5 Mark II and even the M6 Mark II.


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## kbastomi (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> luka28 said:
> 
> 
> > these are great specs!
> ...



are you means CINE lenses?

Canon have plenty of those... just need a EF to EF-M adapter......


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## Foxdude (Feb 22, 2018)

Pupil detection af, and good specs, for me at least. 
This looks very promising camera, I'm in!


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## rs (Feb 22, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> Pupil detection AF



Is the the return of the EOS 5?


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

rs said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Pupil detection AF
> ...



probably not. it's more like eye-AF such as Sony and Fuji cameras.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

kbastomi said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > luka28 said:
> ...



they don't have any credible EF-M CINI zooms aka what sony and fuji both have for their mirrorless mounts.


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## Woody (Feb 22, 2018)

Specs look AMAZING!

And this is supposed to be below EOS M5?


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## nostrovia (Feb 22, 2018)

CR Guy has been adamant that this is below the M5, so I'm hoping that the M5 mk II and 90D/7DIII finally make the jump to 120p full HD.


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## bsbeamer (Feb 22, 2018)

nostrovia said:


> CR Guy has been adamant that this is below the M5, so I'm hoping that the M5 mk II and 90D/7DIII finally make the jump to 120p full HD.



7D3 and/or 90D should see 120 full HD. Hopeful they will see 4K/30p or 4K/60p as well without additional sensor crop than the APS-C already has (except for top/bottom for 4K/UHD proper frame size).

More curious at the moment - what codec(s) are they using for 4K on these new cameras?


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## Architect1776 (Feb 22, 2018)

It looks like Canon is finally getting serious about stepping up their game especially in the mirrorless arena. Now how about getting rid of the AA filtering in front of the sensors.


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

Woody said:


> And this is supposed to be below EOS M5?



As has been said before, it's clear from the distinct lack of poweruser ergonomics.



bsbeamer said:


> More curious at the moment - what codec(s) are they using for 4K on these new cameras?



The fact that frame-grabbing is mentioned _just might_ imply MJPEG. Probably not, though, as it would be ridiculously inconvenient to the target audience (and would probably necessitate UHS-II which I'm not sure this thing supports).


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

Architect1776 said:


> It looks like Canon is finally getting serious about stepping up their game especially in the mirrorless arena. Now how about getting rid of the AA filtering in front of the sensors.



DLO makes that a real moot point without the impact of moire.

silent (electronic shutter), eye AF,etc .. this is certainly debuting lot of new stuff for a canon mirrorless.

I don't think people really give enough credit or excitement of the possibility of a DLO baked RAW. If it's baked and just not embedded within the RAW file non destructive changes - this is a big thing.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> The fact that frame-grabbing is mentioned _just might_ imply MJPEG.


not really at all.

canon does frame grabs from their h.264 equipped cameras. the XC10 for instance has done this since it came out.


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that frame-grabbing is mentioned _just might_ imply MJPEG.
> ...



Ah, good to know.


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 22, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



The used of motion JPEG was to reduce heating issues. The new processors were probably designed with 4K in mind, I'm expecting an H.264 codec that's comparable in quality and bit rate to the older GH4 and the consumer GX85.


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## goldenhusky (Feb 22, 2018)

The first camera from Canon in a few years that got me really excited. It definitely has great specs. 

*My excitements about this camera*

1) It is Canon
2) has 4k and 120p HD
3) Large coverage of AF area. Will be kickass autofocus with DPAF
4) 5-Axis electronic image stabilization.
5) Vari angle touchscreen
6) New RAW format

*I hope for the following*

Hope they read 6000*3375 or 5888*3105 (for DCI) pixels for 4k video and over sample them not pixel binning
H.265 codec
SD UHS ll
Focus peaking
4k HDMI out no biggie I can live without one but it will be nice to output to a big monitor or an external recorder

If Canon offers above then I see this as the first nail is some of the m43 camera coffins unless m43 camera make another huge leap. I am not claiming Panasonic, Olympus, etc are *******, I sure they will take a sales hit. More youtubers will adopt or return to Canon

*What is not there*

Headphone jack is not there. To be clear I am just highlighting not complaining

I don't care about the following I am pretty positive these will not be there but I will be pleasantly surprised if Canon offers these
C-log
Zebras

*My gripes so far*
LP-E12 battery they could have at least kept the LP-E17 from M5
At least one more dial that can be customized

If this has a decent codec for 4k I am sure I will pre-order it which would be a first ever for me. I never ever have pre-ordered a camera gear with the exception of supporting peak design's latest kick starter project.


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## Diko (Feb 22, 2018)

*Dual Sensing IS* - now that would be interesting.
*DLO* - What is that?
*CR3* - OMG OMG! Want to see what's better in it in real life.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

Diko said:


> *Dual Sensing IS* - now that would be interesting.
> *DLO* - What is that?
> *CR3* - OMG OMG! Want to see what's better in it in real life.



Digital Lens Optimizer. Helps to removed a dozen or so aberrations associated with lenses, also does deconvolution for AA filter and diffraction.

Dual sensing IS .. I'm thinking this means the sensors are both in the lens and in the camera body.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

goldenhusky said:


> Hope they read 6000*3375 or 5888*3105 (for DCI) pixels for 4k video and over sample them not pixel binning
> H.265 codec
> SD UHS ll
> Focus peaking



focus peaking has been in canon's mirrorless cameras since the M3. it would be a weird omission.

I doubt the other two really happen. but i could be wrong. if it's full screen, I'm thinking it's probably line skipped. even line skipped APS-C is a pretty big step for canon really.

5 axis electronic stabilization means that 2 axis are done in lens and the rest are done by digitally cropping the image to reduce the effect of shake. it's not 5 axis IBIS.


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## goldenhusky (Feb 22, 2018)

From digicame-info

"New silent mode can shoot with no shutter sound at all"

sounds like there is electronic shutter. That is another thing that got me excited about this camera


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## alienman (Feb 22, 2018)

I like it the only thing i would change is 120fps in FHD but i guess thats something we can expect in the M5 mark ii. I can't wait to see the pupil detection in action.


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

Diko said:


> *Dual Sensing IS* - now that would be interesting.



Probably the same Hybrid IS as in some other cameras, not new. (Edit: apparently not just that but combining in-camera and in-lens IS sensor data for improved stabilization)



> *DLO* - What is that?



In-camera Digital Lens Optimizer. Based on optical transfer function data corrects for aberrations, diffraction, and AA filter effect. Has been available in Canon DPP and in-camera in some more expensive models.



> *CR3* - OMG OMG! Want to see what's better in it in real life.



I wouldn't get my hopes up that this has much relevance to the photographer.


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## goldenhusky (Feb 22, 2018)

courtesy digicame-info

More detailed spec of EOS M50

- 24.1 Million Pixels APS - C CMOS
- DIGIC 8
- Dual pixel CMOS AF with greatly improved performance
- AF area is enlarged by about 38% with corresponding lens (100% vertical × 88% wide of live view image display range)
- Selectable AF points are corresponding lenses up to 143 points (99 points for non-compatible lenses)
- pupil detection AF
- Dual Sensing IS
- Silent mode
- DLO in camera
- RAW development in camera
- Video: 4K 25p / 24p, FHD 60p, HD 120p
- Extract frames from 4K movies
- 5-axis electronic image stabilization compensation · Combination IS
- Standard ISO: 100-25600 (extended ISO: 51200)
- Continuous: Up to 10 frames per second (at servo AF: up to 7.4 frames / sec)
- EVF: 0.39 type 2.36 million dot Organic EL
- Type 3 104,000 dpi Baliangle Touch Panel LCD
- Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, NFC installed
- Wireless remote controller BR-E1 compatible
- HDMI HDR output compatible
- Supports next-generation CR3 RAW format and new C-RAW compression format
- The C - RAW format has a smaller file size than the conventional RAW by 40%, and it corresponds to in - camera RAW development and digital lens optimizer
- Battery: LP - E 12
- Size: 116.3 x 88.1 x 58.7 mm
- Weight: 387 g black, 390 g white (including battery and memory card)
- Color: Black · White
- (Additional description) Dual sensing IS corrects camera shake using both information of the sensor on the body side and information on the lens gyro sensor, improves the effect of 0.5 steps when still
- (Additional notes) New silent mode can shoot with no shutter sound at all
- (Additional description) Improvement of the Auto Lighting Optimizer
- (Additional description) Improvement of high brightness side gradation priority function
- (Additional description) 4K / full HD time lapse function
- (Additional description) Microphone terminal, stereo microphone DM-E1 compatible
- (Additional description) Improvement of AF accuracy during moving object tracking using distance information between moving subject and background
- (Additional description) 2 axis electronic level
- (Additional description) Supports HDR output from HDMI when playing RAW images


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## ahsanford (Feb 22, 2018)

Key questions with this spec list?

1) How good is the eye AF?

2) What in the blazes is dual-sensing IS? Is the sensor actually floating w.r.t. to the body or does it just have sensors/accelerometers onboard to (I don't know) better inform the lens IS?

3) When my new EF 50 prime comes out next year, it will get the 143 point AF treatment, right? ;D

- A


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## syyeung1 (Feb 22, 2018)

My only complain: the spec looks really good, at least on paper, meaning less chance of bargain hunting!!

M5 body had been on sale for less than US$550 (from Canon website) in Hong Kong since last October, and are recently back to regular price. May be they have cleared all stock to make room for the M50. Really exciting times ahead. Just wish there is no surprising omission, and I will place an order immediately!!


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 22, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > *Dual Sensing IS* - now that would be interesting.
> ...



Hybrid IS is a lens feature (found in several of Canon's macro lenses), nothing to do with the camera body.


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Hybrid IS is a lens feature (found in several of Canon's macro lenses), nothing to do with the camera body.



True, brain fart from my part. Edited. I was actually thinking of the combined use of lens and electronic IS familiar from DIGIC7 bodies but seems this is a new thing that also benefits stills, not just video.


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## Baseballfan1192 (Feb 22, 2018)

Can someone explain does 4K 25P/24P mean that’s the only frame rate options? I’d be a little disappointed if it doesn’t have 30P


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

goldenhusky said:


> New silent mode can shoot with no shutter sound at all
> 
> Improvement of high brightness side gradation priority function



so it has an e-shutter for the first time in a canon camera.

"Improvement of high brightness side gradation priority function" that sounds like HTP improvements.


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## okaro (Feb 22, 2018)

Interestingly they use the LP-E12 i.e. the one on the cheaper cameras. There are third party batteries for that. I have three of those. That is a major factor in choosing a camera as Canon originals are not cheap and I could never go without a spare.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

thinking about this camera, it really sounds like canon decided to make the choice camera for vlogging.

external mic, don't care about headphone jack, minimal controls and a front facing screen that you can still attach a mic on the hotshoe

if this camera fits in with the sub-$799 pricing, Canon in one shot probably put themselves back squarely into the vlogging conversation. DPAF, Canon colors, fully articulating screen and 4K? there's nothing missing from that for even the fastidious of vloggers. the mic jack could have been placed better, but that's a minor complaint really.

vloggers have been moving back to 1080p Canon cameras just for the color and DPAF, this should worry the panasonics of the world that their low end vlogging capable cameras like the GX85 are no longer safe.

this all goes out the door if it's MJPEG, or priced alot higher. or has a horrendous 4k crop.

But for now it's looking like a pretty good camera for that segment of the market that Canon for the most part has ignored.


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## IglooEater (Feb 22, 2018)

Canon s aps-c mirrorless lineup is making me very eager to see a full frame offering if nothing else. If I were looking for a crop camera I would consider one of the mirrorless as quite up to snuff.


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> thinking about this camera, it really sounds like canon decided to make the choice camera for vlogging.
> 
> external mic, don't care about headphone jack, minimal controls and a front facing screen that you can still attach a mic on the hotshoe
> 
> ...



The last missing puzzle piece is time limit in 4K and reliability. Panasonic has produced reliable small large sensor cameras with 4K for years, but Sony has shown that they can't do it reliably, and that's why Canon stuck with MJPEG. Crossing my fingers in hopes that the DIGIC 8 and the new sensor can deal with heat.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

crazyrunner33 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > thinking about this camera, it really sounds like canon decided to make the choice camera for vlogging.
> ...



true that. I would assume that canon wouldn't put it in the camera if it overheats like a sony-made camera coffee warmer.

it could be a bad assumption, canon has done weird and whacky things to the EF-M lineup (i'm looking at YOU M3.. )


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## Cory (Feb 22, 2018)

This with an EF-M 50mm lens could be my 85mm lens.


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## rotte (Feb 22, 2018)

One question: Is the ring around the shutter buttom a control dail?

It seems to me, that this is the one control dail on the camrea. 
It could be that the control layout is not so enthusiast oriented. That's maybe what they mean, when the say between the M5 and the M100. 

I'm still thrilled. This could be the first highter capable camera of Canon in a long time, that doesn't have som serious flaws.


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> it could be a bad assumption, canon has done weird and whacky things to the EF-M lineup (i'm looking at YOU M3.. )



I think the M3 and earlier M bodies can now be safely considered learning experiences for Canon. Some questionable decisions may have stemmed from internal politicking (I'm pretty sure they have had executive-level disagreements on whether this mirrorless thing is real and if it is, how quickly they should hop on the bandwagon). The new generation (M5, M6, M100, M50) seem to have a much more consistent, decisive drive behind them, which is also reflected by the change in naming convention.


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## Iago (Feb 22, 2018)

I had hopes for this camera until I saw it shared this new sensor with the new T7. I suspect the Dynamic range will be an issue.


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## LSXPhotog (Feb 22, 2018)

This camera has some very impressive specs. It outclasses the EOS M5 and is going to cost less? Man...


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

Iago said:


> I had hopes for this camera until I saw it shared this new sensor with the new T7. I suspect the Dynamic range will be an issue.



:
yes because it's been an issue for the 80D,etc which also use a 24MP sensor.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

LSXPhotog said:


> This camera has some very impressive specs. It outclasses the EOS M5 and is going to cost less? Man...



for stills it's still no where close ergonomically to the M5 sans *maybe* the new raw format and AF improvements.


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## builderman86 (Feb 22, 2018)

Two things that will make me sell my Sony in a heartbeat. 

Larger support for codecs and 120 fps for slow mo video. Come on Canon! I miss the color science and lens selection but having a separate camera for slow mo and shitty codecs are killing me. I don't want to lug around a giant as 1DX


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## Iago (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> Iago said:
> 
> 
> > I had hopes for this camera until I saw it shared this new sensor with the new T7. I suspect the Dynamic range will be an issue.
> ...


 80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor, and maybe new. I hoped it might be what would be going into the 90D, since it showed up in the T7, it is a valued manufactured sensor. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera. The last new sensor I am aware of was for the 6D Mark II, I did buy that camera, it could be better. I want Canon to be successful. They seem to be making bad choices.


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## jolyonralph (Feb 22, 2018)

Iago said:


> 80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.



The 24.2 MP and 24.1MP are just different marketing figures, all these sensors are exactly 6000 x 4000 pixels or 24.0 megapixels in raw output.


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## Iago (Feb 22, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Iago said:
> 
> 
> > 80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.
> ...


 EOS 750D is 24.2 and the 80D is 24.2 They are different sensors with different DR results. SL2 and 80D same DR results. So I beleive the this new 24.1 and 24.2 from the 80D are different.


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## Iago (Feb 22, 2018)

Iago said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > Iago said:
> ...


Then again, if this is a new sensor, it may provide some sort of benefit for video. Maybe higher bandwidth to the DIGIC 8??


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## scrup (Feb 22, 2018)

I guess the M5ii will be a q4 release.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

Iago said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > Iago said:
> ...



the 750 was a prior generation sensor, it wasn't even DPAF. why is this even in this conversation?


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## transpo1 (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> thinking about this camera, it really sounds like canon decided to make the choice camera for vlogging.
> 
> external mic, don't care about headphone jack, minimal controls and a front facing screen that you can still attach a mic on the hotshoe
> 
> ...



Agree with all this. Would have been nice to have a headphone jack, but knew Canon wouldn't do that. No 30p doesn't bother me and it's a smart way of ensuring those who need 4K frame rates for commercial work have to buy higher end models. 

Only thing left to discover is codec and bitrate and whether they have left moire and aliasing in the 4K or made it clean.


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## Talys (Feb 22, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Iago said:
> 
> 
> > 80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.
> ...



Shhh. The 6000x4000 makes more and better pixels on the m5 because 24.151 is bigger than 24.1498! 

I mean, it's like the Olympics. Do you want a gold or silver medal? That one thousandth of a point is the difference maker!


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

Guys, seriously. Stop overthinking.

The M50 sensor is an evolutionary architecture upgrade compared to the 80D&co. We know this without counting pixels. After all, 88% of the photosites are dual pixels compared to just 66% or so in the previous generation. It also supports 4K, full e-shutter, etc, all of which most likely require some changes to sensor architecture. Any of those changes could lead to a few tens of thousands fewer masked pixels for whatever reason. It might even have a brand new fab process.


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## Adelino (Feb 22, 2018)

Can somewhere address what all this means?

"Dual pixel CMOS AF with greatly improved performance
AF area is enlarged by about 38% with corresponding lens (100% vertical × 88% wide in live view image display range)
The selectable AF point is a corresponding lens with a maximum of 143 points (99 points for non-compatible lenses)."

How great of an improvement can we expect and why do some lenses have more auto focus points?


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

Adelino said:


> Can somewhere address what all this means?
> 
> "Dual pixel CMOS AF with greatly improved performance
> AF area is enlarged by about 38% with corresponding lens (100% vertical × 88% wide in live view image display range)
> ...



Uh, about 38% improvement?  In current DPAF models only the center 80% of the sensor, in both width and height, are dual pixel, so roughly 66% of total sensor area. With the new sensor, you can use the whole sensor height and 88% of sensor width to autofocus. Furthermore, the individual selectable AF zones are smaller and more numerous.

Just like with discrete PDAF, it's more difficult to get enough phase information to autofocus at the edges of the image circle due to optical and geometric reasons. And just like with PDAF, with some lenses you can use fewer AF points than with others (AF points/zones at the edges may not be available).


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> Guys, seriously. Stop overthinking.
> 
> The M50 sensor is an evolutionary architecture upgrade compared to the 80D&co. We know this without counting pixels. After all, 88% of the photosites are dual pixels compared to just 66% or so in the previous generation. It also supports 4K, full e-shutter, etc, all of which most likely require some changes to sensor architecture. Any of those changes could lead to a few tens of thousands fewer masked pixels for whatever reason. It might even have a brand new fab process.



you're over thinking 

all they probably did is improve the periphery DPAF points on the same sensor tech which explains the wider AF coverage.

a DPAF sensor has ALL points split in half in dual pixel mode, but can't use them all because of light angle of incidence causing problems.

the hurdle to DPAF sensors already required a massive shift in fab processes, more wouldn't be necessary for this unless they have snuck in a stacked sensor. canon's probably running somewhere around a 100-160nm or less design rules to get the right barriers small enough between the two halfs of the pixels.


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## [email protected] (Feb 22, 2018)

*Test Bed Platform*

This appears to have genuinely new stuff, put in an entry-to-mid line. That shouts out, "Test Bed!" especially because it's not filling in an expected lineup hole nor updating an older entry in an existing position. 

The dual IS, new raw, baked-in DLO, and probably 4 other things appear to be completely novel. 

Canon wants to see if things fail, take off, are important to certain sales segments, etc. This means that it requires some time to get that data from the market. Remember how dual pixel came out with the 70D? They didn't jump it into their 1DXII or even their 7DII. 

The implication of this is that we are likely to see some of these features jumped into upgraded versions of higher level cameras as they are refreshed, but Canon will wait a couple years before including them in the specs of its highest lines. Or, more accurately, they will include them in the specs for their to-be-produced cameras months after they have the data, but it will be a couple years before those cameras get released.

The DLO is the most interesting thing here when it comes to the prospects of third party lens makers. DLO is in essence a software corrective element that is super effective. But it is a bit of a joke if you must use Canon's terrible software to employ it (and, to date, you did need to). Having that baked into the raw may be a big incentive to stick with Canon glass, as DLO does not support third party lenses. I have more Sigma glass than Canon glass, but often the competition was close. With a baked-in DLO, that might go the other way.


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, seriously. Stop overthinking.
> ...



Touché  I guess I did fall into the same trap. I was wondering about the all-dual-photosites thing; I guess the existence of DPRAW proves that all the pixels are split in a DPAF sensor. So the enlarged AF area is probably implemented by improving the microlenses or waveguides; indeed Canon has had a couple recent patents about that sort of stuff.


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## Diltiazem (Feb 22, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Iago said:
> 
> 
> > 80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.
> ...



Yet to be announced 2000D also has a 24.1 MP sensor. So, maybe this is Canon's new sensor.


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## luka28 (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> luka28 said:
> 
> 
> > these are great specs!
> ...



ok you are not a primes guy but a lot of people is, I would like to see that new 32mm in f1.4 variant, than also 55mm or even some 135 equivalent that would be great. and for zooms, well 15-45 2.8 I would buy it first, all in all there is a lot lenses missing, but it's good that we can adapt lenses and that there are manufacturers like samyang


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## Diltiazem (Feb 22, 2018)

*Re: Test Bed Platform*



[email protected] said:


> This appears to have genuinely new stuff, put in an entry-to-mid line. That shouts out, "Test Bed!" especially because it's not filling in an expected lineup hole nor updating an older entry in an existing position.
> 
> The dual IS, new raw, baked-in DLO, and probably 4 other things appear to be completely novel.



Canon doesn't 'innovate'. ;D


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## Diltiazem (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> crazyrunner33 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



LOL.


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## Diltiazem (Feb 22, 2018)

Why is the white version 3 grams heavier? Now I will have to go for the black.


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## skyshooter (Feb 22, 2018)

It really makes me sad that there isn't a wired remote available for this. While skydiving photography is indeed a very niche market, the vast majority of people slapping new cameras on helmets are doing so with Sony mirrorless. Saving that much weight and space on the helmet is a no brainer. I need a wired remote for my bite switch, so I guess m6 it is instead of m50. 
Note to Canon - I would pretty much pay whatever you wanted to charge for a USB adapter for a wired remote. For the 6 years I've been in the sport, it went from almost exclusively Canon, to almost exclusively Sony for new setups.


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## The Fat Fish (Feb 22, 2018)

These specs already upstage EOS M5 and mark Canon's first real attempt at mirrorless cameras. It's finally starting to promising for higher end models.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

skyshooter said:


> It really makes me sad that there isn't a wired remote available for this. While skydiving photography is indeed a very niche market, the vast majority of people slapping new cameras on helmets are doing so with Sony mirrorless. Saving that much weight and space on the helmet is a no brainer. I need a wired remote for my bite switch, so I guess m6 it is instead of m50.
> Note to Canon - I would pretty much pay whatever you wanted to charge for a USB adapter for a wired remote. For the 6 years I've been in the sport, it went from almost exclusively Canon, to almost exclusively Sony for new setups.



why not use the bluetooth remote?


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

The Fat Fish said:


> These specs already upstage EOS M5



not really if you consider ergonomics a part of a camera.

I'd never replace my M5 with this.

not in a million years.


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## mistaspeedy (Feb 22, 2018)

So if the G1X mark III costs $1300... this will cost $1500 or so? 
What happens to the G1X mark III cost if this M50 is cheaper?


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## IglooEater (Feb 22, 2018)

skyshooter said:


> ...the vast majority of people slapping new cameras on helmets are doing so with Sony mirrorless.



It is? My experience is not representative of the entire market, but the _only_ cameras I’ve ever seen on helmets are GoPro-type cameras, not ilc’s of any kind.


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## Diltiazem (Feb 22, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> rs said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



That appears to be the case. They used 'detection'/'recognition' as opposed to 'control'. 
I was wondering about using 'pupil' instead of 'eye'. Is this a patent issue? Or Canon is just trying to be sexy or different?


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

Diltiazem said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > rs said:
> ...



it's just the quirks of machine based language translations from Japanese.


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## Don Haines (Feb 23, 2018)

IglooEater said:


> skyshooter said:
> 
> 
> > ...the vast majority of people slapping new cameras on helmets are doing so with Sony mirrorless.
> ...



Then we have Bill and the 35mm movie camera on a football helmet......


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## eosuser1234 (Feb 23, 2018)

Wonder if the E-Shutter will be able to flash sync at all speeds. ???


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## ashmadux (Feb 23, 2018)

More or less the Canon mirrorless I have been waiting for. When Canon stops focusing on whats best to LEAVE OUT of a body, great things can happen,

Hell, ill take modest improvements just to get a FULL SWIVEL SCREEN (!!!!!).

If that eye detection works well, god help me this can do some work all alone and leave the 5d at home.

cmon Canon...MAKE IT HAPPEN.

PS- i hope they finally switch back to the rebel firmware- the M3/4/5/6 firmware is slow and utterly miserable powershot trash.


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## ashmadux (Feb 23, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > it could be a bad assumption, canon has done weird and whacky things to the EF-M lineup (i'm looking at YOU M3.. )
> ...




It makes me sad that no one mentions the dog slow powershot menu UI. My M1 is super responsive, compared to the mess on these cameras. I can't fathom why they would be using this firmware at all when thy could just use the existing rebel firmware, which is well mature.


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## bholliman (Feb 23, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> The Fat Fish said:
> 
> 
> > These specs already upstage EOS M5
> ...


+1

For a stills shooter, there isn't anything here apparently improved over the M5 other than a full tilt/swivel LCD. For video, yeah, looks like a nice upgrade.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

ashmadux said:


> i hope they finally switch back to the rebel firmware- the M3/4/5/6 firmware is slow and utterly miserable powershot trash.



The powershot firmware is the reason we got EVF, focus peaking and all the other goodies on the mirrorless side.

also the M5 and M6 in my usage is just as responsive as the M/M2 was. the m3 was a dog and shouldn't even be in this conversation.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

bholliman said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > The Fat Fish said:
> ...



there's some cool hints of what an M5 II would have such as eye AF, wider AF area, more focus zones, faster AF, C-RAW, DLO in camera and keeping the M5 stills ergonomics.

DIGIC 8 seems to be bringing alot of processor tricks down to mirrorless.

I find the 24MP sensor in the M5 to be good enough for anything i shoot in terms of APS-C IQ, frankly i don't see me wishing for an upgrade there at all.

That would be a camera i have a hard time saying no to.


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## goldenhusky (Feb 23, 2018)

It would be really nice if someone comes up with a EF-M to EF speedbooster not the adapter that Canon already selling


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## bf (Feb 23, 2018)

bholliman said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > The Fat Fish said:
> ...


At least for me, M6 LCD is more appealing. It is less noticable and needs less space around the camera which is positive for photographing in streets and busy places.


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## ahsanford (Feb 23, 2018)

Recent add from CR Guy (see original post on this thread):

_"Dual Sensing IS is a body- The information of the lens and the information of the gyro sensor of the lens are used to correct camera shake and improvement of the effect of 0.5 stops"_

I think Neuro wins a prize for predicting this one.

The sensor isn't floating relative to the body -- this is not IBIS at all -- so we shouldn't be so surprised at how little of an upside this is.

- A


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## Sharlin (Feb 23, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Recent add from CR Guy (see original post on this thread):
> 
> _"Dual Sensing IS is a body- The information of the lens and the information of the gyro sensor of the lens are used to correct camera shake and improvement of the effect of 0.5 stops"_
> 
> ...



Looks like this feature was first introduced on the PowerShot side of the fence; it combines the lens gyro sensor data with live visual feed from the sensor. Makes sense in a fixed-lens camera but on the ILC side I'd think it requires special support from the lens to let the camera control the IS unit directly.



> The processing power of DIGIC 7 enables optical image stabilisation with Dual Sensing IS technology, so you can achieve an extra stop of camera shake compensation and shoot in even more tricky situations. DIGIC 7 monitors data in parallel, from both the gyro sensor in the optical Image Stabilizer and the image projected onto the image sensor, to provide high precision corrections of up to 4 stops. It counteracts not only camera shake but also the slow but significant shaking from body movement for easy handheld shooting in lowlight.


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## IglooEater (Feb 23, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > skyshooter said:
> ...



....I’m sorry, I’m not sure what you mean here...?


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## Quackator (Feb 23, 2018)

By strange coincidence, Canon professional services Europe just 
sent out a newsletter detailing the cinema light raw format:
https://www.canon.co.uk/pro/stories/cinema-raw-light/

Now... think again, everybody: What is this C-Raw inside the M50?
Anybody puking from excitement?


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## exquisitor (Feb 23, 2018)

goldenhusky said:


> It would be really nice if someone comes up with a EF-M to EF speedbooster not the adapter that Canon already selling



+1

I can see something like 35/2 IS to fit nicely on EOS M.


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## zim (Feb 23, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



+1 absolutely


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

Quackator said:


> By strange coincidence, Canon professional services Europe just
> sent out a newsletter detailing the cinema light raw format:
> https://www.canon.co.uk/pro/stories/cinema-raw-light/
> 
> ...



you're trying to shove a round peg into too many square holes. Cini RAW light has NOTHING to do with this. there's no chance in hell this gets raw video of any sort.

Emphatic? yes. it uses regular SD cards.


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## exquisitor (Feb 23, 2018)

goldenhusky said:


> It would be really nice if someone comes up with a EF-M to EF speedbooster not the adapter that Canon already selling



Found this one on ebay: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EOS-EOSM-Focal-reducer-Auto-focus-adapter-EF-EFM-EF-to-EFM-EOS-to-EOSM-Booster/302623520529

This is definitely not a Metabone quality, but probably interesting for you...


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 23, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> Quackator said:
> 
> 
> > By strange coincidence, Canon professional services Europe just
> ...



You're probably right. The hardware will have the capability for it, but it wouldn't make sense to add such a feature to a camera who's prime audience wouldn't know how to use, and then end up with unusable footage if they mistakenly record in it.

If lucky enough to crack the DIGIC 8, Magic Lantern would make a killer RAW camera out of this. Most SD card slots nowadays write faster than the CF cards from the 5D Mark III days.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

crazyrunner33 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Quackator said:
> ...



you know this ... how?

canon's SD card writes usually top out at 100mb/sec btw. the ML raw project used an SD card for the firmware and CF cards for the actual raw data.

Cini light RAW is 1Gps - far exceeding any SD cards going into the M50.


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 23, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> crazyrunner33 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Have you used RAW video before or dug into the ML code? I can run ML RAW video on my 5D with only the SD card, it can run the firmware off the same card it writes to, it just drops the performance. The 10 year old photography only Canon 50D can even support close to 1080p RAW with the firmware on the same card, it's safe to say the hardware should be fine on the EOS M50. The main question is whether or not ML will be able to crack the M50, and the speed of the SD card controller. 

I'm not expecting Canon to go with the latest and greatest controllers that can support 4K compressed RAW on SD cards, but it's safe to assume they're using a more modern SD card slot with the DIGIC 8. If it can hit 1080 RAW, I'd be real happy since it upscales very well to 4K. RAW video is only nice to have for those few times where there's a challenging lighting situation.


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## Shellbo6901 (Feb 23, 2018)

wish the white colored one's beauty wasn't ruined by the gray grip ): just wish they could squish this into a g3x body(with a swivel screen) and have a good lense on it(faster and lighter even with less zoom if need be)


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## skyshooter (Feb 23, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> skyshooter said:
> 
> 
> > It really makes me sad that there isn't a wired remote available for this. While skydiving photography is indeed a very niche market, the vast majority of people slapping new cameras on helmets are doing so with Sony mirrorless. Saving that much weight and space on the helmet is a no brainer. I need a wired remote for my bite switch, so I guess m6 it is instead of m50.
> ...


It's standard to use a wired biteswitch. That way I can do things like hang on to the outside of an airplane, steer my parachute, dock on people. And have both hands 100% free if there is an emergency with my parachute. And while I'm sure the Bluetooth remotes are pretty good, most in-air photographers don't like relying on something that can mis-pair. GoPros remotes have been very good at failing mid air, to the point where a skydiver made an external indicator, TurnedOn, instead of relying on anything else.

edit:that site has a lot of other in-air photography equipment if anyone is interested in how pro/enthusiast skydivers shoot stills in-air


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## skyshooter (Feb 23, 2018)

IglooEater said:


> skyshooter said:
> 
> 
> > ...the vast majority of people slapping new cameras on helmets are doing so with Sony mirrorless.
> ...


For pro / semi-pro photographers, ILC are still the standard. Some tandem video/photo ops are using GoPros or X3000s though.
I shoot formations, I need to be able to time the shot exactly, not depend on them holding the formation during the interval the GoPro decides to fire, and time the shot perfectly for the piece movements. Plus, I would never submit a GoPro still to a publication and almost never to a sponsor.


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## skyshooter (Feb 23, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > skyshooter said:
> ...


Yeah, I've learned enough from the old guys, I'll just keep a sleek setup that can operated hands-free. And that can be safely cutaway


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## Don Haines (Feb 23, 2018)

skyshooter said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...


yes


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## Jacen (Feb 25, 2018)

As someone who’s doing behind the scenes documentation for small independent theatre and film companies (=little to no money for me), I’m perhaps most exited over the fact that we finally get a silent mode that is silent in a Canon camera. 
The inclusion of 4K is nice too, giving me more latitude in post even if it’s only 24/25.

So now I’m on the fence on whether or not to sell my M5, get this and then probably sell the M50 when the M5 mark II drops...


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## Don Haines (Feb 25, 2018)

Jacen said:


> As someone who’s doing behind the scenes documentation for small independent theatre and film companies (=little to no money for me), I’m perhaps most exited over the fact that we finally get a silent mode that is silent in a Canon camera.
> The inclusion of 4K is nice too, giving me more latitude in post even if it’s only 24/25.
> 
> So now I’m on the fence on whether or not to sell my M5, get this and then probably sell the M50 when the M5 mark II drops...



one of the problems with setting up a remote camera to capture shy birds at a feeder is CLICK! from the shutter, and they fly away......

we have a cure!


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## Quackator (Feb 25, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> The powershot firmware is the reason we got EVF, focus peaking and all the other goodies on the mirrorless side.



Er... no. The M/M2 were on regular firmware, that's why Magic Lantern worked on them.


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## Hector1970 (Feb 25, 2018)

What's the limiting factor of this camera not having a faster FPS?
Canon seems to have gone to some length to make a good APS-C MILC but didn't go for something like 15 FPS which would have been a great selling point. 
Is it the processing power on the Digic used?


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## rrcphoto (Feb 25, 2018)

Quackator said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > The powershot firmware is the reason we got EVF, focus peaking and all the other goodies on the mirrorless side.
> ...



err yes? the EVF, focus peaking, etc came with powershot firmware on the M3..


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## Sharlin (Feb 26, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> What's the limiting factor of this camera not having a faster FPS?



Shutter mechanism?
Sensor read speed?
Processor speed?
Data bus speed?
Buffer write speed?
Card write speed?
Product differentiation?
Uselessness of 15fps to a beginner?
Uselessness of 15fps with AF locked in general?

Most likely all of them. Would be bad engineering AND bad economics to design everything to a higher standard and then leave a single bottleneck... Mind that 24MP*15fps would be a higher throughput than the friggin' 1-D X Mk II's 20MP*16fps. So I think you might see why a $800 entry-level body wouldn't have that.


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## Quackator (Mar 2, 2018)

rrcphoto said:


> Quackator said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



EVF, yes. The rest came with Magic Lantern on the big firmware.
And ML support was crapped by the powershot firmware.


----------



## Peterm (Mar 14, 2018)

Will the M50 do full autofocus at f/8? I want to use my 400mm zoom with 1.4 extender.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Mar 15, 2018)

Peterm said:


> Will the M50 do full autofocus at f/8? I want to use my 400mm zoom with 1.4 extender.


As the other DUAL PIXEL AF cameras work perfectly with F8 lenses (or F5.6 plus 1.4x teleconverter) the new M50 should work perfectly as well.


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## Peterm (Mar 16, 2018)

That's great. Thanks.


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## vjlex (Mar 19, 2018)

Can anyone suggest how this may compare to the M3? I love the image quality of my M3, but it often feels sluggish in tracking and capturing. I don't think high FPS matters that much to me in this type of body as it would be my B-camera, but I found the M3 extremely poor when it came to processing those continuous exposures (admittedly, RAW+JPG). It would slow the camera down immensely to the point that it would be unusuable after just 3 or 4 continuous snaps. Even after getting a better SD card, it was still sluggish. I refuse to buy another camera that is that poor at continuous RAW shooting, although, not sure how I can find this out beforehand.


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## Talys (Mar 19, 2018)

shunsai said:


> Can anyone suggest how this may compare to the M3? I love the image quality of my M3, but it often feels sluggish in tracking and capturing. I don't think high FPS matters that much to me in this type of body as it would be my B-camera, but I found the M3 extremely poor when it came to processing those continuous exposures (admittedly, RAW+JPG). It would slow the camera down immensely to the point that it would be unusuable after just 3 or 4 continuous snaps. Even after getting a better SD card, it was still sluggish. I refuse to buy another camera that is that poor at continuous RAW shooting, although, not sure how I can find this out beforehand.



I would go to a camera store and ask to demo one  Then just try out the AF tracking and drive mode, and see if they are to your liking.

I can't recall what the specs said, but it sounded pretty impressive in that regard.


----------



## vjlex (Mar 22, 2018)

Talys said:


> I would go to a camera store and ask to demo one  Then just try out the AF tracking and drive mode, and see if they are to your liking.
> 
> I can't recall what the specs said, but it sounded pretty impressive in that regard.



Yeah, I usually do. Some stores have been weird about allowing me to insert my own memory card though. And test shots while tethered to the display counter haven't been a very good indicator of real-world use for me unfortunately. I'll definitely wait to hear user reports though, particularly over any claims of it being "sluggish". Hopefully an M5 follow-up will shortly follow.


----------

