# Sony 7R IQ vs Canon 5Dm3, Nikon D800E and Pentax645D



## Neutral (Nov 9, 2013)

Found interesting info on Sony 7R image quality vs. 5Dm3, Nikon D800E and Pentax 645D with 100% comparison crops at different ISOs at imagine -resource:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/camera-reviews/sony/a7r
Very interesting to see comparison of Canon 5D M3 with Sony a7R at ISO 3200 both low contrast high details shorts and for high contrast ones.


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## Albi86 (Nov 9, 2013)

Interesting display of capability by the a7r, but for a comparison with other cameras we should know what lenses have been used on them: "our very sharp reference lenses" means absolutely nothing to me.

Also these tests with JPG OOC are sort of pointless because they don't reflect how cameras are really used in real life - see lenstip's image samples.


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## drjlo (Nov 12, 2013)

I like this guy's idea 8)
Actually, since Sony and Zeiss often make AF lenses together, I wonder if there will be an AF-version of Otus 55 mm for Sony. That would tip the scale for me for sure..




Sony A7r Zeiss Otus 55mm by drjlo2, on Flickr


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## 9VIII (Nov 12, 2013)

Once again, it's baffling that there isn't more demand for 50+MP cameras.

Chances are it's actually just the speed of memory cards and processors holding things back.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 12, 2013)

9VIII said:


> Once again, it's baffling that there isn't more demand for 50+MP cameras.



How well do Phase One cameras sell?


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 12, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> 9VIII said:
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> > Once again, it's baffling that there isn't more demand for 50+MP cameras.
> ...



You never fail me. LOL


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## Axilrod (Nov 12, 2013)

drjlo said:


> I like this guy's idea 8)
> Actually, since Sony and Zeiss often make AF lenses together, I wonder if there will be an AF-version of Otus 55 mm for Sony. That would tip the scale for me for sure..
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> 
> ...



This belongs in the pornography section...you're a lucky man


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## Policar (Nov 12, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> 9VIII said:
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> > Once again, it's baffling that there isn't more demand for 50+MP cameras.
> ...



Given that back in the day virtually all "serious" photographers shot not only 120 but 4x5 (or larger), not nearly as well as affordable medium format gear could. 

Canon has had some luck branching out into "cinema" and is attempting to branch out into security cameras. The super-high-end might be the market to pursue.


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## traveller (Nov 12, 2013)

Good to see that Sony's jpeg engine has been improved, especially at high ISO; it must have been galling to see how much better Nikon and Pentax could do with their own sensor! Some of these differences will fall away once RAW based comparisons are available, but the A7R should still lead the pack (with the D800E) for resolution.


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## sdsr (Nov 12, 2013)

Albi86 said:


> Also these tests with JPG OOC are sort of pointless because they don't reflect how cameras are really used in real life - see lenstip's image samples.



That's especially true of a camera whose size is a big selling point. These test shots were all done in a studio on a tripod, but much of the appeal of a small camera is that it's something you can use "on the go", relatively inconspicuously, spontaneously and fast - i.e., without a tripod. It will be interesting to see how well the A7R works hand-held - as anyone who has used or read about the D800 knows, all those megapixels make any imperfections in your technique (and lenses) glaringly obvious. I suspect that the A7 works better for such use. Both would have benefited from IBIS.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 12, 2013)

I'm not sure what kind of sensor Samsung Galaxy S4 has, but I took this this photo with my S4 through the car window early this morning. I was stopping at the light and can't believe the sky is filled with colors...


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## Albi86 (Nov 13, 2013)

drjlo said:


> I like this guy's idea 8)
> Actually, since Sony and Zeiss often make AF lenses together, I wonder if there will be an AF-version of Otus 55 mm for Sony. That would tip the scale for me for sure..
> 
> 
> ...



The lenses you're talking about are actually made by Sony. Zeiss provides the QC and certifies their performance - thus the Zeiss logo and names.

Anyway, Zeiss has confirmed that they will make MF lenses for the a7 same as they do for Canon and Nikon


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## sdsr (Nov 13, 2013)

Jackson_Bill said:


> sdsr said:
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> > It will be interesting to see how well the A7R works hand-held - as anyone who has used or read about the D800 knows, *all those megapixels make any imperfections in your technique (and lenses) glaringly obvious*. I suspect that the A7 works better for such use. Both would have benefited from IBIS.
> ...



Maybe not, but a selling point of high MP sensors is the heavy cropping they allow (and, relatedly, the remarkable amounts of detail you can see when the image on a large monitor).


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## 9VIII (Nov 15, 2013)

Policar said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > 9VIII said:
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It's actually surprising how well the D800 does when compared to a high end medium format camera, considering how heavily the specs are stacked against it.
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D800/Nikon_D800_vs_Phase_One_medium_format_quality.shtml

I also found this kind of funny.



> the IQ180 digital back’s new memory card interface is so fast that it eliminates buffering delays, supporting continuous shooting - at 0.7fps - until a card is full.


 http://www.photographyblog.com/news/phase_one_iq180_iq160_and_iq140


When I first read about the price drop on the Pentax 645D I actually took a semi-serious look at it, but even after the price drop, it can't use Canon glass, it shoots at 1.1FPS, and the IQ isn't a big enough jump above what high resolution 35mm sensors can do. I'm not going to get a $7,000 body just for a mild improvement in IQ at a handful of focal lengths. If a high resolution 35mm sensor only cost a few hundred dollars more though, it becomes an obvious choice. Plus if they let you shoot in an APS-C mode with a higher burst rate you would have an incredibly versatile camera.





sdsr said:


> Jackson_Bill said:
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Remember that most crop sensors have far higher pixel density than the A7R, and people have been using those, handheld, to shoot birds in flight for years now. The necessary adjustments to get improved handheld images with a 36MP sensor isn't even going to be half what people do to get good BIF shots.


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## MLfan3 (Nov 19, 2013)

I did not like it when I tried a beta version of it a month a go (as we run Sony dealer we could test it a month before as most of so-called review sites actually tried it).
but last night I tried the product version of the 7 and 7R , to my surprise , I actually loved it and just bought the 7kit , I also bought the Zeiss 35mm f2.8ZA.

the reason I went for the non R version is that the 7R is slow in operation and I had the D800E and I dislike that sesnor(on paper it was great but there were many many usability and practicality issues).

the 7 tracks my cat quite well even in dim in door light, and high ISO of it is actually better than my D600 and D800E.
the DR of the 24mp sensor is actually better than the 36mp one , I had both and I tested many many times since I first acquired my first defective copy of D800 and a D600.

the Alpha 7 and 7R both produce outstanding quality video files , I love that but unfortunately there is no ML for it.
the EVF of the Alpha 7 is actually quite much better than the EVF in the A99v and the EM1.
so if you want to get a tiny FF camera with good video and AF , then go for the 7, for the price , it is outstanding.

IMO, it is the best lowlight street camera ever made due to its tiny size, excellent high ISO and flip-out screen.

I tested my Voiklander 35mm f1.4 MC lens , Canon EF17-40mmf4L lens , Zeiss 25mm f2 ZF2 lens, Zeiss 50mm f2 MP lens and Sony Zeiss 35mm f2.8 ZA lens and all work extremely well.
I think I will get the Leica R 19mm and Canon TSE 24mm f3.5L ll soon for both my Canon 6D and Sony A7.

PS. if you do not need AF on the A7 or 7R with your adapted Canon EF lenses , then just get a cheaper normal adapter , not the overpriced SB.


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## jrista (Nov 20, 2013)

Neutral said:


> Found interesting info on Sony 7R image quality vs. 5Dm3, Nikon D800E and Pentax 645D with 100% comparison crops at different ISOs at imagine -resource:
> http://www.imaging-resource.com/camera-reviews/sony/a7r
> Very interesting to see comparison of Canon 5D M3 with Sony a7R at ISO 3200 both low contrast high details shorts and for high contrast ones.



What surprises me is how much sharper the A7r is compared to the D800E. Both have no low-pass filter, but the A7r has noticeably more detail before sharpening. I wonder if that is due to literally not having a low pass filter at all, where as the D800E is actually blurring (separating) light in one direction, then "unblurring" (converging) it. Guess that, despite its special filter stack, it still isn't quite as good as not having a filter at all...


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## Sporgon (Nov 20, 2013)

jrista said:


> Neutral said:
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> > Found interesting info on Sony 7R image quality vs. 5Dm3, Nikon D800E and Pentax 645D with 100% comparison crops at different ISOs at imagine -resource:
> ...



How does a FF mirror less with shallow 'flange" distance cope with the angle of light striking the extremities of the sensor at a more acute angle than on a camera with same sensor size but longer 'flange' distance ? I thought the angle of light hitting the pixel 'buckets' was a potential problem on FF due to a shadowing effect. I presume that on the Sony it's either not a real problem anyway, the pixels are shallower, or the signal is being amplified at the extremities.


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## 9VIII (Nov 20, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> jrista said:
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Here you go.

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/things-you-have-to-know-a7r-has-offest-microlens-design-the-a7-has-not-a7-has-electronic-first-curtain-a7r-has-not/


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## jrista (Nov 21, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> jrista said:
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Sony developed a way to create microlenses that deal with increasing angle of incidence as you approach the corner of the sensor. Instead of a uniform microlens layer, the layer changes as you reach the edges. I am not even sure Sony was the first to develop the approach...I thought I read a paper about Panasonic or one of the other companies developing such a technique a year or so ago. Anyway, the microlenses are designed to guide light at a high angle of incidence into the pixel well in the edges of the frame.


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## Albi86 (Nov 23, 2013)

MLfan3 said:


> I did not like it when I tried a beta version of it a month a go (as we run Sony dealer we could test it a month before as most of so-called review sites actually tried it).
> but last night I tried the product version of the 7 and 7R , to my surprise , I actually loved it and just bought the 7kit , I also bought the Zeiss 35mm f2.8ZA.
> 
> the reason I went for the non R version is that the 7R is slow in operation and I had the D800E and I dislike that sesnor(on paper it was great but there were many many usability and practicality issues).
> ...



Some recent reviews have come to the conclusion the a7r AF was faster that the a7, except in tracking situations. Did you notice anything of the sort?

I'm really considering the a7. It has better flash sync and 24 MP are OK for me. How did the VL 35 fare? I've been reading mixed reviews about adapted M lenses - smeared corners, etc. Seems like 35mm is a sort of cutoff - longer lenses will have no problems. But many of the best lenses out there are 35mm, so it's always nice to know.


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## jrista (Nov 26, 2013)

Leif Gw Pettersson said:


> jrista said:
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Maybe it was Leica. I knew I read something about a different brand developing the offset microlenses before, and that Sony just replicated the technique.


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## MLfan3 (Nov 27, 2013)

Leica?
it was a great company but now it is a shitty copy cat brand.
they never invent anything new since 1983.
even their lens quality is overrated, the Sony 35mm f2.8ZA(which is designed by Sony) is sharper than the Leica 35mm f1.4 Lux.
if Leica had no European , literally no one really worship for it.
it is the name and look of the body that attract the people buy it despite of whatever Leica fanboys say about it.
and I was a Leica fanboy, but saw the reality and woke up when I saw Tim Ashley's his Leica M vs A7R vs D800E vs RX1 comparison.


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