# Disappointed and goodbye



## NiceShotSteve (Mar 21, 2012)

Joined CR a short time ago. I certainly don't mind disagreement, but I quickly tired of the abusive and caustic replies to my few well-intentioned posts. I guess some folks just enjoy flat-out negative criticism. Not whining, just a fact. Better things to do. Good luck and goodbye.


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## Admin US West (Mar 21, 2012)

There are some snarky individuals who seem intent on jumping on anyone's post. The moderators are really busy deleting posts and warning or even banning posters. Things will cool down a bit, so I'd like to invite you to hang around.

I recall removing a offensive post referencing one of yours a while earlier today.

People need to be free to thoughtfully express a opinion, but a trolling post or a snarky comment annoys most everyone.


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## JR (Mar 21, 2012)

This is unfortunate NiceShotSteve. While this behavior happens, I must say overall I have experienced the opposite from this site since I started to participate and actually got so much out of it in terms of learning and satisfaction.

Negative post seem to occur more around mistical product announcement like the 5DmkIII which we were all waiting for for so long, but in general it is not like that. I sometime skin through other camera forum and they seem much less constructive then CR forum...

My two cents anyway...I am sticking around anyway 8)


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## keithfullermusic (Mar 21, 2012)

Its the internets - don't take negative comments seriously. They are just people being jerks hiding behind their computers.

Come back, the majority of people are nice and informative.

Also, how many mean comments could you have had? You've only had 10 other posts previous to this one!


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## bvukich (Mar 21, 2012)

We try our best to police the forums, but as of late the number of new posts is staggering. It will calm down soon as the 5D3 excitement dies down.

It is no small feat to keep the foums from turning into the wild west. For a prime example of posters gone wild, try going to the NikonRumors forums some time. Total lack of tact, professionalism, courtesy, helpfulness; and any other positive attribute you could find in an online community. We pretty much try to be the opposite of that.

I hope you stay, but if not I understand your reasoning.


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## Seamus (Mar 21, 2012)

I read some of the negative comments that were directed towards your post... Really inappropriate and undeserved. I found you advice thoughtful and useful. Sorry to see you go, hopefully you will reconcider and give it another go...


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## YellowJersey (Mar 21, 2012)

I have to agree. The forums really seem to have been curb stomped under the heavy tread of the stupid fairy with the whole "5d3 sucks!" hysteria. Fanboys are unfortunately something we can never get rid of from the internet.


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## ozzymax (Mar 21, 2012)

almost impossible to police. It will happen no what forum you are part of. Just try to ignore it. Being a member lets you ask all your questions with a chance of getting some useful replies.
The only stupid question is the one not asked.


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## CrimsonBlue (Mar 21, 2012)

Hopefully with the removal of the Karma system, there will be fewer newbies hurt by a (trivial) scoring system and we can concentrate on the comments and discussions themselves. 

Sorry to see you go, and hope to see you back some time when the 5D III whining has ceased!


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## Seamus (Mar 21, 2012)

Even with all the recent bashing, this forum is much better than most (at least for the forums that I have checked out).


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## BobSanderson (Mar 21, 2012)

NSS,
I wouldn't leave if I was you. You make good sense and are practical in the advice you offer based on your own experience and thoughtful research. There are a lot of childish equipment hounds here who need more attention than they get from the the photo they are able to produce.


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## Warninglabel (Mar 21, 2012)

These forums are nice compared to others(DPreview). Just remember when you were in school, you had lots of people in class you like and had many friends but you also had your class mates that you really didn't like or care for. The trouble makers that always were looking to attack at every mistake. Not so surprising, they never grew up and still don't have true friends, but when they get home from work . They fill important in places like these forums because people react to there post and I'm sure they are the same people in other forums just with different names. 

Report abuse 
ignore the post
then the post disappears 

*CR mods* great job!!! I'm on these forums about 24 hours a day and you must be really fast at what you do because these forums are really clean and that's why I keep coming back


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## unfocused (Mar 21, 2012)

CrimsonBlue said:


> Hopefully with the removal of the Karma system, there will be fewer newbies hurt by a (trivial) scoring system and we can concentrate on the comments and discussions themselves.
> 
> Sorry to see you go, and hope to see you back some time when the 5D III whining has ceased!



Just the opposite. Things have definitely taken a turn for the worse in the few days since Karma was removed. I predict it will only get worse. Like it or not, Karma worked. It helped keep people in line and was a way for the entire community to police one another. 

Things have already started to degenerate and unfortunately it appears removing the Karma system will be a big contributor to the problem.


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## roombarobot (Mar 21, 2012)

I too am new and found this forum to be mostly quite good, but there are some snarky to inappropriate comments. I always hope for more civility in the world. 

I was debating staying with Canon for my DSLR or switching to Nikon. I think I got some snark because of this position, but it is a realistic and honest exploration. I have also been on a Nikon rumors site and have so far found it to be a little bit more friendly for new members to the community. (Note, I have not been on either forum for long, FWIW.) However it is not perfect either.

I think all we can do is continually work towards civility. There are certainly leaders in this online community and you all can do a lot by setting a good example. Sure, nobody likes to be the denmother, but it helps to set a positive tone.

Thank you all for the help you have given me and for what I have learned from you all. I respect this group and share a love of photography with you all. Take care!


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## NutsAndBolts (Mar 21, 2012)

Here is a suggestion. Introduce public "recommend" feature so users can recommend a post. This would be a positive encouragement for people to post useful information as opposed to just another comment that does not add much. And by public, I mean everybody should be able to see who recommended the post. And you can have the total number of recommends a particular user has gotten displayed next to their name, this would be like karma, the user has been posting useful information. On the negative side have a "report this post" (you already have it) or some such so that users can alert the admins that it is an inappropriate post.



unfocused said:


> CrimsonBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Hopefully with the removal of the Karma system, there will be fewer newbies hurt by a (trivial) scoring system and we can concentrate on the comments and discussions themselves.
> ...


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## Pyrenees (Mar 21, 2012)

As a CR Addict, I'm sorry that you feel that way. To be honest, I'm not exactly shocked to learn of people wanting to stop visiting.

It's a cross-section of the World, really. For all the nice, helpful people out there, there are also a lot of nasty, vindictive, sniping individuals - many of whom have hidden agendas, and who demonstrate very little insight and empathy towards others.

Just sayin'


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## Tabor Warren Photography (Mar 21, 2012)

keithfullermusic said:


> Its the internets - don't take negative comments seriously. They are just people being jerks hiding behind their computers.
> 
> Come back, the majority of people are nice and informative.



Keith is right, and I wonder where all the negativity has gone since you created this post. I don't even know you but you seem like the type who should stick around. There are SO MANY knowledgeable people on this forum but there will always be bad apples. I won't dog on your posts so there's one fewer you'll need to worry about.

-Tabor


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## Larry (Mar 21, 2012)

NiceShotSteve said:


> Joined CR a short time ago. I certainly don't mind disagreement, but I quickly tired of the abusive and caustic replies to my few well-intentioned posts. I guess some folks just enjoy flat-out negative criticism. Not whining, just a fact. Better things to do. Good luck and goodbye.



Hi NiceShot,

FWIW, here's a positive observation:

This thread is itself an example of the relative hospitality of the website. I have seen many "Goodbye" posts over time on a number of sites, ...and there are often far fewer understanding, sympathetic responses, and usually quite a few "Who cares!" taunts by the uglies.

Either the jerk-ratio is pretty low here, or the moderators are doing a very good job at a difficult task.

I would invite you, as others have done, to reconsider, with the thought that in this "club" with such a really great number of members, the friendly greetings as you enter and the camaraderie-at-large really are worth putting up with (ignoring) the inevitable few social inepts.

Maybe you could consider them as miniscule "hot pixels" on the LCD, which either don't show in the captured image, or
are easy to fix in post processing. 

I.e., in spite of their fondest wishes, they are NOT a big deal. ;-) 

Stick around and add to the good-guy team!


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## peederj (Mar 21, 2012)

Well if it makes you feel better I can confirm that the censorship (euphemised as "moderation") activity on this site is actually well into the severe side of the scale. And I say this as someone who has not only participated in but run sites orders of magnitude larger than this.

Running a site like this, you are a beggar for content every single day. Any post that:

1) is provocative (whether snarky, oir challenging, or just exasperating)
2) is on topic (and not an ad-hominem...who cares about the personalities of the miserable users)
3) is _arguably_ true (subjective, objective, or otherwise)

...you not only NEVER censor, you put it on the FRONT PAGE!

It is a serious challenge to recruit competent moderators...it's a thankless and miserable chore. Very often this is the first power they have held over other people and they become enamored and over-enthusiastic about it. They fail to understand that a dialectical argument is the lifeblood of online fora...one absolutely needs the wrong to elicit the right, the noise to make the signal feel safe and wanted. Generally the proprietor of a successful site at least understands this much though, which is why I recommend a counter-signed moderation system, where anything censored must be confirmed by the site proprietor within a given window.

As for karma, negative karma is an awful precscription, an allowance for drive-by negativity that invites retaliation against the non-perpetrator. Flagging a post for moderation is as far as an ordinary (or even "trusted") user should be allowed to engage; too often the role users embrace is that of voluntary stormtrooper, scaring off your budding talent. Positive karma only; and if your programmers haven't cottoned onto this yet, slap them.

The calls for the precious "civility" should be interpreted as yearnings for provocative content; those users will want to slap down things they find too provocative, resulting in beaucoup pageviews and continuous refreshes. Ganbatte!


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## shtfmeister (Mar 21, 2012)

I would smite those who caused all the trouble but...
but wait if you looked at there smite count you could ignore them ... never mind


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## jhanken (Mar 21, 2012)

Stick around, bro! The world (and this Canon-related site) needs cool heads with thoughtful input. I share your concern, but I have learned sooooooo much, even from the snarky types. It is worth it on balance.


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## underjammer (Mar 21, 2012)

Looking at your posts, I only saw the first one when you posted. I never saw any of the others until just now, but they seem just fine and helpful.. Not sure what peoples' problems were. Don't let it get to you! These forums are pretty nice compared to many.

As for your first post, though.. Well.. Seriously, I though it was a troll. A funny one, at least. : D But right.. I read it, laughed, then moved on, thinking it was just part of the ridiculous amount of ridiculousness that the 5D mkIII brought along. Maybe everyone did.. and that's why it has no responses? Being your first post, and asking "is the converter any good?" about the official Canon FD to EOS adapter.. that's just really funny (and has troll written all over it, especially with the increased traffic, etc). That converter costs $1000. That's probably why there's not much info about it. And it's a good possibility that no one here has one. Maybe Ontarian/EdMika has experience with it? I'll go post more into that particular thread. Yay for bringing old threads back from the dead! : D

Clearly since you tried to participate afterward, and be nothing but helpful, I guess it wasn't a troll after all, haha. It still gave me a good laugh as one, though.


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## shizam1 (Apr 9, 2012)

NiceShotSteve said:


> Joined CR a short time ago. I certainly don't mind disagreement, but I quickly tired of the abusive and caustic replies to my few well-intentioned posts. I guess some folks just enjoy flat-out negative criticism. Not whining, just a fact. Better things to do. Good luck and goodbye.



Yep, I feel the same. I've got better things to do then defend posts I made to people who don't even have the equipment being discussed. I found another board where people actually seem interested in being helpful and if you post a potential problem you notice with a product you aren't immediately attacked.


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## briansquibb (Apr 9, 2012)

shizam1 said:


> NiceShotSteve said:
> 
> 
> > Joined CR a short time ago. I certainly don't mind disagreement, but I quickly tired of the abusive and caustic replies to my few well-intentioned posts. I guess some folks just enjoy flat-out negative criticism. Not whining, just a fact. Better things to do. Good luck and goodbye.
> ...



I agree, people without kit/experience disagreeing with those with experience and kit is counterproductive as it muddies the waters for those trying to do research


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## nesarajah (Apr 9, 2012)

I have a feeling its got to do with the username . somehow on first glance it kind of appears arrogant. IMHO.


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## akiskev (Apr 9, 2012)

NiceShotSteve said:


> Joined CR a short time ago. I certainly don't mind disagreement, but I quickly tired of the abusive and caustic replies to my few well-intentioned posts. I guess some folks just enjoy flat-out negative criticism. Not whining, just a fact. Better things to do. Good luck and goodbye.


So sorry mate. I hope you come back.


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## unkbob (Apr 9, 2012)

I don't know the OP or what you've written before, but I'm sorry you're leaving. Good luck finding a widely-read public forum where everyone is always courteous and debates never degenerate into heated arguments. This is the internet. It's an impersonal "140 characters or less" world. A hard hat and a few pinches of salt are required.

I've found CR to be a fun place to hang out and there are plenty of nice, knowledgeable, helpful people. 

You don't have to leave town just because it's not Pleasantville.


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## Kahuna (Apr 9, 2012)

NiceShotSteve said:


> Joined CR a short time ago. I certainly don't mind disagreement, but I quickly tired of the abusive and caustic replies to my few well-intentioned posts. I guess some folks just enjoy flat-out negative criticism. Not whining, just a fact. Better things to do. Good luck and goodbye.



Steve, I agree with all you have said and have the same feelings lately. What keeps me from leaving is that there are far more EXTREMELY INTELLIGENT and helpful people here at CR. Hope you reconsider or come back soon.


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## marekjoz (Apr 9, 2012)

It's good to be here - a lot o knowledge and helpful people. Trolls of course as well but no reason to leave.
Even if kicked away i'd be looking for knowledge and opinions as well.


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## mjbehnke (Apr 9, 2012)

I have to agree with Kahuna! I've learned more on this site than you can imagine. I don't post much, but I do read these forums almost everyday! I think you'll find out that most trolls are just that.... trolls.

Stick around... This really is a great site!


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## scottcognato (Apr 10, 2012)

I too echo the sentiment that this is both informative and helpful. There are definitely the proverbial bad apples, but I find them far fewer and more removed than on any other photog forum I am a part of. So hats off to the moderators and people like Neuro for helping to moderate and inform photography discussion.


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## wickidwombat (Apr 10, 2012)

I am amazed people let internet trolls hurt their feelings
I dont know how many people know of mark "chopper" read (notorious gangland killer)
but here is a funny parody of him that is appropriate for anyone with hurt feelings
Enjoy!
Chopper - Harden Up Australia!


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## JerryBruck (Apr 10, 2012)

@peederj: Well said.


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## tron (Apr 10, 2012)

Please stay. Don't let the bad people win. You can ignore them or answer to them as they deserve.

You deserve to stay. They don't. And anyway the great majority here consists of people interested in Canon and photography in general and enjoy exchanging information. 

P.S Let us know you are still here...


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## birtembuk (Apr 10, 2012)

Wow, what a show of friendship here ! Just try to find a forum like this...


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## Pieces Of E (Apr 10, 2012)

NSS, if you are reading all these replies to your 'going-away' post, then it is a testament to us as a world-wide group of people who share the same brand of equipment and the same passion that you do, that yes at times we might get testy(I and my wife/business partner being guilty of not being happy with out 7D bodies), but we press on. This site really is a treasure trove of Canon users and abusers, as a group I think I can speak for the masses that hopefully those who abused your threads(or jumped too quickly to criticize) learned from their mistakes and moved on. 
If you've gone, good luck great shooting, if you're peeking, come on back, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk tech. 
As you can see, this is page 3 of posts for ya!


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## wickidwombat (Apr 10, 2012)

NiceShotSteve said:


> (2) But, alas, folks like "wickedwombat" just prove my initial point.



sheesh ...its a funny vid c'mon hardly snarky. 
Seriously mate you need to take yourself a tad less seriously have a laugh.

Maybe since the vid is aussie it doesn't translate that well

And if you went through most of my posts here you'll find i try to help out people as much as possible
I do like some fun though and I sincerely do appologise if I hurt your feelings no harm intended.


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## Hillsilly (Apr 10, 2012)

Wickidwombat, are your feelings hurt because people don't get the video? Go eat a bowl of cement and ...... 

I've noticed that there are a lot of people on this site that use their real name and their comments are rarely inflamatory. It would be interesting to do a study one day on the level of civility from those who are easily identifiable vs those with a random username. 

In my opinion, it's the internet. Its a levelling field. Everyone is just as entitiled to put forward their views as anyone else. And if somebody disagrees strongly with a comment, they have no hesitation in "correcting" you. But anonymity gives people the feeling of invincibility and sometimes, people take things too far. But I doubt there is malicious intent on anyone's part.


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## unkbob (Apr 10, 2012)

NiceShotSteve said:


> Against my better judgment, I'm back for one last post (promise). I have read the chain of comments and have the following observations, if I may.
> 
> (1) Most of you have been very kind and encouraging, and I thank you all. I wish everyone could be that way. (2) But, alas, folks like "wickedwombat" just prove my initial point. What could possibly be a motive for such a snarky comment? "Hurt feelings"? ... I don't think so. I just don't have the time or the inclination for comments such as this, and the rest of you shouldn't either. As I said, "Better things to do."



Ok sorry folks, I know you'll all hate me for this and my post will be removed but...

Nice Shot Steve you posted all of 10 posts, had relatively little interaction with the forum and now you're making this great dramatic exit like some epic chapter of our lives is coming to a close. You can't handle the internet apparently. Wicketwombat's post was good natured and funny, so if you are completely devoid of any sense of humour or perspective then I don't care what you do. This is not the sinking of the Titanic. The forum isn't for you, ok, boo hoo see you.


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## JerryBruck (Apr 11, 2012)

Don't feel bad wickidwombat, you're ok...


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## briansquibb (Apr 11, 2012)

JerryBruck said:


> Don't feel bad wickidwombat, you're ok...



... for an Aussie ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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