# The next EOS R system camera gets a mention again [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 11, 2019)

> The third camera body in the EOS R lineup is likely being announced in Q4 of 2019 and all indications seem to point to it being a high-resolution camera.
> We’re being told that the next EOS R camera will have more than 70 megapixels and will keep Canon at the top of the full-frame sensor resolution rankings. The same person also mentioned that IBIS is definitely going to be featured in the camera, something that’s been reported previously.
> We previously wrote that the next EOS R would sport dual card slots and feature Canon DSLR ergonomics with things such as a joystick coming to the EOS R lineup.
> More to come…



Continue reading...


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## djack41 (Mar 11, 2019)

Sounds great. Praying for a much faster frame rate.


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## amorse (Mar 11, 2019)

I'm looking forward to seeing what this thing can do, though I'm thinking I may need to invest in protective eye-wear before I see the price!


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## pj1974 (Mar 11, 2019)

This could potentially be the camera that brings over to FF mirrorless / RF mount. While I don't need 70MP, a higher end body than the EOS R is what I'm looking for. IBIS, faster frame rate, better ergonomics, potentially some improvements in AF, dual card slots - these are all features I would welcome.

I will keep looking forward to Canon's camera body and lens offerings in this mount. In the meantime, my DSLRs and EF/EF-S lenses, including some L glass serve me very well.


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## cfibanez (Mar 11, 2019)

With a 70MP sensor, frame rates are going to be low....


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Sounds great. Praying for a much faster frame rate.



at 70MP? I think 5fps would be pretty amazing.


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## AaronT (Mar 11, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Sounds great. Praying for a much faster frame rate.


You might have to keep on praying. They are talking about 70 MP+. That's a lot of data to move. Also, high megapixel fans are not the type of people who usually want a high frame rate. One exception might be birders.


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## ffxx (Mar 11, 2019)

High MP usually means less video oriented. I just freaking want a c100 mkiii


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## Treyarnon (Mar 11, 2019)

amorse said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing what this thing can do, though I'm thinking I may need to invest in protective eye-wear before I see the price!


probably - but Canon has been pretty aggressive with pricing the R models so far - so here hoping the price starts with a 2 or a 3 and not a 4


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## proutprout (Mar 11, 2019)

Yeaeh this means we’ll just have to wait another year or 2 for a video oriented camera. I’m wondering if canon though about the YouTube crowd. I need 120fps ! Crap maybe i’ll end up beeing a Sony shooter, cant wait forever.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

Treyarnon said:


> probably - but Canon has been pretty aggressive with pricing the R models so far - so here hoping the price starts with a 2 or a 3 and not a 4



Well... 

5Ds cameras came out at $3699 and $3899 for the 5Ds and the 5DsR respectively, I would imagine in the same ballpark.

Starting with a 2 has a snowball's chance in hell, IMO.


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## Equinox (Mar 11, 2019)

An EOS R version of the 5Ds / 5Dsr line aimed at Landscape photographers sporting increased resolution, increased dynamic range (please!), DPAF, weather sealed, optional crop to reduce resolution (smaller files), built in intervalometer and a few other bells and whistles. Landscape photographers dream considering the excellent outputs from the new RF lenses. If the DR is there to match the competition could become the new standard in IQ. Chances of class leading DR?....Relatively Low, either way will be a good professional tool. 

IMHO will have a relatively low frame rate and not be video orientated probably have 4k crop, no peaking, zebras etc so most likely will get roasted by the video orientated shooters. Although there's always a chance Canon have really put their time and money into this and knock it out the park to regain the top spot. 

Either way, I've been waiting for another rumour like this so I can read another 100+ pages of predictions whilst I save for this most likely incredibly expensive pro/prosumer camera!


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## sdz (Mar 11, 2019)

If this camera has IBIS, I wonder if that also means it will feature a new sensor technology? Canon will upgrade at some time. Will this be the camera?


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## Ozarker (Mar 11, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Yeaeh this means we’ll just have to wait another year or 2 for a video oriented camera. I’m wondering if canon though about the YouTube crowd. I need 120fps ! Crap maybe i’ll end up beeing a Sony shooter, cant wait forever.


All my YouTube videos are in slow motion. Makes my twerks and Brazilian wax instructional videos more interesting. So yes, 120fps is huge. There is a ton of slow-mo on YouTube. Sony.


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## PinSharp (Mar 11, 2019)

What about EOS M?


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## amorse (Mar 11, 2019)

Treyarnon said:


> probably - but Canon has been pretty aggressive with pricing the R models so far - so here hoping the price starts with a 2 or a 3 and not a 4


I hope so too, but if we assume that Canon see the EOS R as direct competition for the Z6 and a7iii, then it's priced ~$300 more than comparables. If this is supposed to compare with the a7Riii and Z7, then we could certainly be looking at a price starting with a 4. The 5DsR hasn't received huge discounts even years after release, so Canon does seem to hold high MP bodies in high regard. Sounds like we'll find out in a few months.


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## Skyscraperfan (Mar 11, 2019)

I still hope one day we will have a camera with interchangeable sensors. People have strong views about having a high or a low megapixel count. For me for example low noise is very important and therefore I will prefer a low megapixel count most of the time. There are situations though where many megapixels are helpful. I do not have the money though to buy both a 1D X Mark II and a 5DS R. Carrying around both cameras also is a pain. 

It is funny that my smartphone has two sensors, but a $6000 DSLR still has only one. Having an 18 megapixel and a 70 megapixel sensor in the same camera would really be a killer feature.


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## Ozarker (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I still hope one day we will have a camera with interchangeable sensors. People have strong views about having a high or a low megapixel count. For me for example low noise is very important and therefore I will prefer a low megapixel count most of the time. There are situations though where many megapixels are helpful. I do not have the money though to buy both a 1D X Mark II and a 5DS R. Carrying around both cameras also is a pain.
> 
> It is funny that my smartphone has two sensors, but a $6000 DSLR still has only one. Having an 18 megapixel and a 70 megapixel sensor in the same camera would really be a killer feature.


Isn't there a s,m,l selection feature for file size on Canon DSLRs? Yes. Yeah, I know... not the same as pixel pitch differences, etc... but please.


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## Tom W (Mar 11, 2019)

Personally, I think this will be a lot like the 5Ds/5DsR body in terms of being a very high resolution body, but not a sports-oriented body. If it matches the R in fps, it would be pretty fantastic. I think that a 4th body, a sports/speed-oriented body, is still in the works.

I wonder what kind of sensor this will have. Probably the newer technology that we've seen in the 80D, but perhaps a newer rendition of that with even better low-ISO noise (the 80D is definitely on the right track there).

I'm anxious to see what they come up with, although I'm not likely to buy it. At least not yet...


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## Skyscraperfan (Mar 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Isn't there a s,m,l selection feature for file size on Canon DSLRs? Yes. Yeah, I know... not the same as pixel pitch differences, etc... but please.



Choosing a smaller resolution means that your camera computes a smaller photo out of the bigger one. That's like shrinking the resolution in Photoshop. The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo. That's why the Sony A7SII with its 12 megapixels beats other cameras even if you shrink their images to 12 megapixels.


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## jeanluc (Mar 11, 2019)

I too am hoping for a more "DSLR" like body with respect to controls etc......this sounds good except for the 70MP....that is a lot of data to move. I hope they have a next generation sensor to back it up. I hope they don't do what they did with the 5DSR and just cram in a lot of resolution at the expense of low light performance and DR. If this is a landscape body, and I really hope it is aimed at that genre since that's what I do, DR and shadow noise are very important. Especially if you are shooting 70 MP shots, since that makes a lot of bracketing less practical due to file sizes. maybe a really, really good 50 Mp is god enough..

Having said that, I bet there will be a next gen sensor, since the current "flagship" 5D4 sensor is 3 years old this year. And that sensor IMHO is actually quite good for landscapes. So maybe it will all work out. I can't wait for that 15-30 RF...


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## Cochese (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I still hope one day we will have a camera with interchangeable sensors. People have strong views about having a high or a low megapixel count. For me for example low noise is very important and therefore I will prefer a low megapixel count most of the time. There are situations though where many megapixels are helpful. I do not have the money though to buy both a 1D X Mark II and a 5DS R. Carrying around both cameras also is a pain.
> 
> It is funny that my smartphone has two sensors, but a $6000 DSLR still has only one. Having an 18 megapixel and a 70 megapixel sensor in the same camera would really be a killer feature.



Your phone's camera sensors are practically microscopic in comparison. You're not swapping a fragile sensor out, just switching to a different micro camera. With IBIS and any other tech attached to the sensor, swapping out a sensor would be complicated and require a socket that would make the camera even larger.


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## Nelu (Mar 11, 2019)

Somehow I had the feeling they had the high resolution sensor ready or close to ready but not they're not quite there yet with the processing speed required for a 5D Mark IV or a 1DX equivalent mirrorless camera.
It will come, no worry about that. You can call Canon many names but stupid is not one of them. Just think about the many great innovations they had in the past.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 11, 2019)

So, assuming a sensor size of 10240 x 6826 (which works out just a fraction under 70 megapixels), if you were to use it in APS-C crop mode you'd get a 39.57 megapixel image - which could presumably have a much higher framerate.


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## slclick (Mar 11, 2019)

You had me at joystick


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## Del Paso (Mar 11, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Sounds great. Praying for a much faster frame rate.


I'm expecting a high MP camera, for landscape and macro photography, NOT FOR SPORTS!!!!
So, a high frame-rate is not to be expected, we shouldn't mix categories...
A Jeep doesn't have to be as fast as a Corvette.


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## JonSnow (Mar 11, 2019)

Hope it is not only more mp but also better sensor tech....


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## sdz (Mar 11, 2019)

amorse said:


> {snip}....The 5DsR hasn't received huge discounts even years after release, so Canon does seem to hold high MP bodies in high regard. Sounds like we'll find out in a few months.



This fact likely means that 5DS cameras sell, that the market for these cameras remains strong.


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## Alastair Norcross (Mar 11, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> So, assuming a sensor size of 10240 x 6826 (which works out just a fraction under 70 megapixels), if you were to use it in APS-C crop mode you'd get a 39.57 megapixel image - which could presumably have a much higher framerate.


No. An APS-C crop of 70MP is approx 27MP. Which would be a pretty good resolution for a high-speed crop camera. Perhaps the high-res R could double as the 7DII replacement in crop mode.


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## MrToes (Mar 11, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


EOS 5D layout would be great 2 cards plus the same battery and out comes my wallet.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> So, assuming a sensor size of 10240 x 6826 (which works out just a fraction under 70 megapixels), if you were to use it in APS-C crop mode you'd get a 39.57 megapixel image - which could presumably have a much higher framerate.



it would be around 27mp, not 39.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> With the 2020 Olympics around the corner, we're going to have a sports R by 2020Q2 I'm sure, whether this announcement is it or not.



maybe not. Canon will be doing the 1DX Mark III, that's probably good enough for this go around. 2012Q2 would be probably too late for the Olympics, it would have to come out in around 2012Q1 at the latest and to be honest.. that's just not going to happen.


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## Trey T (Mar 11, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Sounds great. Praying for a much faster frame rate.


I've been thinking and wishing, but I don't think that's their target, camera w/ high fps for sports or wildlife. Essentially, there are two industries: 1) sports/wild life; and 2)lifestyle/live events/landscape.

The current sets of EOS R system (R and RP) aims at #2. If I'm the CEO of Canon, I would want to strengthen that industries to give the top pedigrees (or pro camera fanatics) the best tool possible. After that, I would move onto #1 and work on the 7D and 1D equivalents.

At best we may see high fps for crop mode, like 7-10fps @ 20-25MP.


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## melgross (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Choosing a smaller resolution means that your camera computes a smaller photo out of the bigger one. That's like shrinking the resolution in Photoshop. The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo. That's why the Sony A7SII with its 12 megapixels beats other cameras even if you shrink their images to 12 megapixels.


Well, not really. There are a number of ways to do this. Making 4 pixels into one gives one forth the resolution, but much better noise and dynamic specs. You also keep the same size frame. If the original was 75MP, the resulting downsize would be 18.75. That would be fairly small by today’s standards, it’s still enough for many things, and could give a high frame rate, assuming the processor could keep up.

You’re talking about a digital crop, which is something entirely different. It also changes the apparent lens lengths.


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## [email protected] (Mar 11, 2019)

An outlier possibility is that this will be an image-quality-above-all-else camera, and it will be a roughly 1 frames per second camera at maximum quality. The reasoning is that Canon has been handicapped in the processing/throughput arena for some time, and one of the compromises it has had to make with the R series is lopping off some features that are processor-intensive. Servo AF with the better frame rates is probably the most prominent example. I suspect IBIS may have been delayed because putting it in would have sucked up even more processing cycles, forcing even worse choices for the R.

If they went with IQ-above-all-else, and include all the there is a real market for that, and 1 fps isn't much of a compromise for some of them. They'd price it super high, marketing it as sort of like a medium format experience, where the slow actions and processes form a thoughtful, considered composition.


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## hendrik-sg (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I still hope one day we will have a camera with interchangeable sensors. People have strong views about having a high or a low megapixel count. For me for example low noise is very important and therefore I will prefer a low megapixel count most of the time. There are situations though where many megapixels are helpful. I do not have the money though to buy both a 1D X Mark II and a 5DS R. Carrying around both cameras also is a pain.
> 
> It is funny that my smartphone has two sensors, but a $6000 DSLR still has only one. Having an 18 megapixel and a 70 megapixel sensor in the same camera would really be a killer feature.


A High MP Camera has no worse high iso capability than a low MP one. Only on pixel level it seems so. As far as i know, using the s- and m-settings does line skipping, but shooting at full resolution and downsampling is the way to do if one wants smaller files, or less pixels. The disadvantages of high MP are huge raw files, slower processing and slower frame rate at shooting.


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## Markeran (Mar 11, 2019)

I'll go for all what has been posted as wishes for the EOS-R "professional" but please NO 70 megapixels. We just don't need such a high resolution. I have got a 5Ds and it requires a careful handling at high shooting speeds to keep everything sharp. For what concerns me 40 Mp is good enough and this in any case will achieve a higher frame rate than an impossible 70 Mp for which, even as a landscape photographer, I do not see the purpose.


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## yinzer (Mar 11, 2019)

I was hoping for the photojournalism/sport camera .. but I'll try and be excited for you pixel peepers and all of your new hard drives waiting to be filled.  

I think I'll be happy using the R or the RP until that camera arrives. Gotta start getting those sweet RF lenses.


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## jonebize (Mar 11, 2019)

Is Canon likely to ever release a low-light line similar to the Sony A7s line?


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## jonebize (Mar 11, 2019)

Also, Canon is really outpacing Nikon at this point. And for it to be this early in the race, that's really saying something.


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## Chuckmet (Mar 11, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> With the 2020 Olympics around the corner, we're going to have a sports R by 2020Q2 I'm sure, whether this announcement is it or not. (It may also simply be used at the Olympics before it's available to the general public; I think they've done that before.)
> 
> As for whether it's a slower hi-res or faster med-res, I imagine "it" will actually be two models. It's just too easy to make two identical cameras differing only in sensor and shooting rate: witness the EOS-1D v.s EOS-1Ds or a7 and a7R. They may still stagger them by a quarter or two.
> 
> As for data-moving capability, they just introduced the DIGIC 8 chip and it's only been used in the M5 and R. Several other Canon bodies have dual DIGICs so I'm going to guess the new model will have dual DIGIC 8. Since the resolution is about twice the R, I wouldn't be surprised if they have 1) a model with the R's shooting speed but double resolution, plus 2) a second model with more like 35MP but double speed. This second may also have the CPU power to use the full sensor for 4k/25.


The M5 uses the Digic 7, M50 uses Digic 8


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## Trey T (Mar 11, 2019)

yinzer said:


> I was hoping for the photojournalism/sport camera .. but I'll try and be excited for you pixel peepers and all of your new hard drives waiting to be filled.
> 
> I think I'll be happy using the R or the RP until that camera arrives. Gotta start getting those sweet RF lenses.


Do you shoot w/ 7D or 1D?


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## hendrik-sg (Mar 11, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> So, assuming a sensor size of 10240 x 6826 (which works out just a fraction under 70 megapixels), if you were to use it in APS-C crop mode you'd get a 39.57 megapixel image - which could presumably have a much higher framerate.


if you had done the math correctly, you had found out that it would be 26.0MP in crop mode (instead of 66.7MP in FF mode)


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## zonoskar (Mar 11, 2019)

Markeran said:


> I'll go for all what has been posted as wishes for the EOS-R "professional" but please NO 70 megapixels. We just don't need such a high resolution. I have got a 5Ds and it requires a careful handling at high shooting speeds to keep everything sharp. For what concerns me 40 Mp is good enough and this in any case will achieve a higher frame rate than an impossible 70 Mp for which, even as a landscape photographer, I do not see the purpose.


That's why Canon should include IBIS.


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## degos (Mar 11, 2019)

Alastair Norcross said:


> No. An APS-C crop of 70MP is approx 27MP. Which would be a pretty good resolution for a high-speed crop camera. Perhaps the high-res R could double as the 7DII replacement in crop mode.



Nah, I don't think Canon would be that generous. Why satisfy two market segments with one camera when they could sell two different cameras to more people?

The 5Ds doesn't have a faster frame-rate in APS-C crop mode, it just consumes less card space. Otherwise I know a few people who would sell their 7D2 and settle for that one body.


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## Chaitanya (Mar 11, 2019)

Bring support to CFexpress and there will be a lot of happy landscape shooters.


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## Ozarker (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Choosing a smaller resolution means that your camera computes a smaller photo out of the bigger one. That's like shrinking the resolution in Photoshop. The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo. That's why the Sony A7SII with its 12 megapixels beats other cameras even if you shrink their images to 12 megapixels.


Really?????? Wow. I learn something new everyday.  Sony. BTW: Glad I still have my 12.2 megapixel Canon Rebel XSi. Would the sensors be "hot swappable" in your fantasy camera?


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## max_sr (Mar 11, 2019)

sdz said:


> If this camera has IBIS, I wonder if that also means it will feature a new sensor technology? Canon will upgrade at some time. Will this be the camera?



Since Canon doesn't have a high resolution sensor with dual pixel AF, it is safe to assume, that this will be a completely new sensor and there is some reason to hope, that they make changes to the whole sensor architecture as well. Unless of course Canon decide that you don't need DPAF for landscapes and contrast detect AF is enough (and don't you dare shoot anything else than landscapes with this camera).


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Choosing a smaller resolution means that your camera computes a smaller photo out of the bigger one. That's like shrinking the resolution in Photoshop. The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo. That's why the Sony A7SII with its 12 megapixels beats other cameras even if you shrink their images to 12 megapixels.



not true at all.

a larger image size also allows you to do computational NR to reduce noise even further before reducing the image resolution down.

and if you look at DXO SNR charts, when normalized down to 8MP, the A7R III bests the A7S II. which invalidates your entire theory.


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## dtaylor (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I still hope one day we will have a camera with interchangeable sensors. People have strong views about having a high or a low megapixel count. For me for example low noise is very important and therefore I will prefer a low megapixel count most of the time.



Literally scale down, perhaps after applying a bit more NR (in camera JPEG settings or in your RAW converter). Done correctly you should end up with a sharper, more detailed, and cleaner image. The low MP = better high ISO meme is a myth for stills.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

max_sr said:


> Since Canon doesn't have a high resolution sensor with dual pixel AF, it is safe to assume, that this will be a completely new sensor and there is some reason to hope, that they make changes to the whole sensor architecture as well. Unless of course Canon decide that you don't need DPAF for landscapes and contrast detect AF is enough (and don't you dare shoot anything else than landscapes with this camera).



not safe to assume that at all. they could simply take the 80D sensor and make it full frame .. that would be pretty close to the 70MP.


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## leviathan18 (Mar 11, 2019)

I was hoping for a proper 5D MKIV replacement (unlike the R), I own a 5Ds and is a hazle to shoot at 50mp can't imagine at 70mp


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## dtaylor (Mar 11, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Choosing a smaller resolution means that your camera computes a smaller photo out of the bigger one. That's like shrinking the resolution in Photoshop. The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo. That's why the Sony A7SII with its 12 megapixels beats other cameras even if you shrink their images to 12 megapixels.



The A7s II is softer and less detailed but not really cleaner. This is with DPReview's "dumb" scaling for a web comparison tool. NR the 5Ds file before shrinking with a high quality scaling algorithm and it will be noticeably cleaner on top of being sharper/more detailed.


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## cayenne (Mar 11, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Yeaeh this means we’ll just have to wait another year or 2 for a video oriented camera. I’m wondering if canon though about the YouTube crowd. I need 120fps ! Crap maybe i’ll end up beeing a Sony shooter, cant wait forever.



While I will likely at some point add a Canon "R" camera, likely prosumer or maybe PRO (something like the 5D line is what I"d prefer)....and I'd likely use it for some video, I'm looking seriously at getting the Blackmagic Design Cinema 4K "Pocket" Camera as that it really looks like a great video package, for a very reasonable price.

Have you considered that possibility?

HTH,

cayenne


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## preppyak (Mar 11, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Yeaeh this means we’ll just have to wait another year or 2 for a video oriented camera. I’m wondering if canon though about the YouTube crowd. I need 120fps ! Crap maybe i’ll end up beeing a Sony shooter, cant wait forever.


Canon cares far too much about their Cine EOS line to ever put 120fps in one of their photo cameras. I think the cheapest camera to have it is the XF400 (a $3k, tiny sensor camcorder). The 1D-X II is the lone exception because its already a $5k+ camera.

After the 5DIV and both RF cameras came out without it, I gave up because its obviously not something Canon is gonna do.


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## dtaylor (Mar 11, 2019)

cayenne said:


> While I will likely at some point add a Canon "R" camera, likely prosumer or maybe PRO (something like the 5D line is what I"d prefer)....and I'd likely use it for some video, I'm looking seriously at getting the Blackmagic Design Cinema 4K "Pocket" Camera as that it really looks like a great video package, for a very reasonable price.



I hate to say it but I second that. I'm looking at the X-T3 for video with an adapter for my Canon glass. Not a purchase I'm going to make right away but I can see myself doing it this summer.


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## cayenne (Mar 11, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> A Jeep doesn't have to be as fast as a Corvette.



True...*BUT*, it would be nice if it "could" be.....eh?
I'd like to have that option...



C


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## Ladislav (Mar 11, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> not true at all.
> 
> a larger image size also allows you to do computational NR to reduce noise even further before reducing the image resolution down.
> 
> and if you look at DXO SNR charts, when normalized down to 8MP, the A7R III bests the A7S II. which invalidates your entire theory.



Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.

https://www.atik-cameras.com/news/binnning-the-differences-between-cmos-and-ccd/ 

If you have CMOS with one large pixel instead of 4 small binned pixels you can look at it as if you used CCD binning from that article. Readout is simply better and it still allows doing SW processing on top of that.


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## dtaylor (Mar 11, 2019)

I'm dumbfounded at all the "my 5Ds is hard to shoot" comments. Literally just use crop shutter speeds. Instead of 1/focal length use 1/(focal length x 1.6). And don't be OCD with hand held shots taken under less than perfect conditions. If it looks good at 50% then it looks at least as good, if not better, than it would have with a 5D mark III.

I'm finding my hand held shots have ridiculous levels of detail, even when shooting a non-IS lens. Is there the occasional shot that does not hold up as well at 100% in PS? Sure. And it would still make tack sharp 24" print.


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## cayenne (Mar 11, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> I hate to say it but I second that. I'm looking at the X-T3 for video with an adapter for my Canon glass. Not a purchase I'm going to make right away but I can see myself doing it this summer.




I"m thinking about maybe renting the BM Design 4K pocket camera, and maybe the metabones adapter for my EF lenses, just to play with it and see how it works and how the workflow is. I like with the BM Design, you also get included the FULL version fo Davinci Resolve....like a $300 value.

I love my current 5D3 still, it works great for me...I actually bought it when it first came out, my first ever DSLR, and believe it or not, I bought it primarily for VIDEO!!

I'm in New Orleans and just before it came out, I was on a commercial video shoot, and saw someone shooting with the strangest camera, caged and everything...it was the 5D2. I started looking into it and the 5D3 came out.

It wasn't till a year or so later I actually started experimenting shooting stills with it and fell in love with stills too.

So, I will buy a "R" camera when one comes out that is comparable to the "5" line of cameras. Of course I'll use some video with it too, but it will be primarily for my stills, and will use my 5D3 as backup.

But with the reasonable price of the BM 4K camera for video, a dedicated very well rated camera, I would look into buying it too primarily for video and using my "R" can 5D3 cameras as backup or B roll cameras.

Sounds like a great setup for me at least.

I saw that lensrentals.com has a 15% discount for this month, if I can get the 'day job' settled a bit more, I might rent the BM 4K camera for a long weekend and see how it works.

cayenne


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## Phynx2019 (Mar 11, 2019)

NOOOOO Canon, don't put IBIS in the next EOS R at the moment your the only Camera Company that dosn't have it. IBIS is for marketing and amateurs who don't know how to hold a camera. Canon is also correct in stating the optical stabilization is better than sensor stabilization. If you do introduce IBIS at least make it an option that it can be turned off in camera.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

Ladislav said:


> Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.


the differences are so minor you'd never see it in your photography, not to mention you entirely decided to ignore what exactly I wrote, which was the fact that more pixels allows you a greater freedom of computational NR before you reduce the image size.


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## dtaylor (Mar 11, 2019)

Ladislav said:


> Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.



Or that the article you quote is not accurate or not applicable.

I'm going to say the latter is true regardless of the former. For real world photography "signal" is the resolved detail in two dimensions. Signal is not merely a single color with noise being the variance from that test color.

Perhaps if you shoot a gray card with the A7sII and A7rIII and bin a few of the latter's pixels to match one of the former's you will get a higher SNR value from the A7sII. But the "signal" you are analyzing in that SNR value is not the same "signal" that human beings are receiving when they actually look at the image. If we go by the photographic "signal" then the A7rIII is going to have the highest SNR even if you don't utilize NR processing.


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## MrFotoFool (Mar 11, 2019)

I was not interested in mirrorless R system, but this could change my mind (along with larger than 2.8 zoom lenses). I think the question for me and perhaps others will be do we jump over in the next couple years, or do we hold out and take advantage of presumably good prices on used EOS gear that early R adopters start dumping?


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## digitalride (Mar 11, 2019)

Ladislav said:


> Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.
> 
> https://www.atik-cameras.com/news/binnning-the-differences-between-cmos-and-ccd/
> 
> If you have CMOS with one large pixel instead of 4 small binned pixels you can look at it as if you used CCD binning from that article. Readout is simply better and it still allows doing SW processing on top of that.



That article is not wrong, and in theory one large cmos pixel could do slightly better than four small cmos pixels combined in software in terms of noise , but in practice with modern cameras smaller pixels downsampled does better in terms of noise and detail. 4 small pixels gives you more detail information to work with in software processing than 1 large pixel.


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## CptSlevin (Mar 11, 2019)

Oh, c'mon!
We just need EOS R Body better than Canon 5D Mark IV, who the hell needs 70mp?
That's just absurd in terms of file size and shooting spped


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## dtaylor (Mar 11, 2019)

cayenne said:


> I"m thinking about maybe renting the BM Design 4K pocket camera, and maybe the metabones adapter for my EF lenses, just to play with it and see how it works and how the workflow is. I like with the BM Design, you also get included the FULL version fo Davinci Resolve....like a $300 value.



The BMPCC is a great cinema camera, and I've looked at it as well. Larger sensors and AF features pull me towards the A73 or XT3. Between those two the XT3's price, color science, 10-bit out, 4k60p, and great bit rates (versus the A73) will probably win me over. Sensor size is a concern simply because I have FF glass and don't want a severe crop. I'm not even thrilled with a 1.5x crop but the XT3 offers so much for video. The BMPCC's sensor is of course excellent and it's giving you even more video features.



> I love my current 5D3 still, it works great for me...I actually bought it when it first came out, my first ever DSLR, and believe it or not, I bought it primarily for VIDEO!!...It wasn't till a year or so later I actually started experimenting shooting stills with it and fell in love with stills too.



5D3 is a workhorse. A very solid camera that has been used to produce many award winning shots.



> But with the reasonable price of the BM 4K camera for video, a dedicated very well rated camera, I would look into buying it too primarily for video and using my "R" can 5D3 cameras as backup or B roll cameras.



That seems to be the best strategy for now. I think Canon will give us a good hybrid stills/video R camera. I just don't expect it until 2020 at the earliest.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

CptSlevin said:


> Oh, c'mon!
> We just need EOS R Body better than Canon 5D Mark IV, who the hell needs 70mp?
> That's just absurd in terms of file size and shooting spped



Obviously "we" does not include "me" who really wants this camera out, as it's the EOS R camera I've been waiting for.

Perhaps it's always best not to assume you know what everyone else wants. Just sayin'


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## jhpeterson (Mar 11, 2019)

I'm most interested in seeing this camera. What's of critical importance to me is a weather-sealed 1D build, along with fast AF and a long-lasting battery. I'd expect dual slots to be a given and would really appreciate IBIS.
What I'd also like to see is that this camera offers at least two RAW modes, the high-resolution one here mentioned, albeit a relatively low frame rate, as well as a reduced-size file for action sports.


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## ozturert (Mar 11, 2019)

Have Canon DSLR ergonomy, 5D IV dynamic range, 70+MP, good Dual Pixel AF, articulating touch screen, good shutter noise, good weather sealing, max. 3500USD and thisis my next camera.


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## Aaron D (Mar 11, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> An outlier possibility is that this will be an image-quality-above-all-else camera, and it will be a roughly 1 frames per second camera at maximum quality.



A high-res, low frame rate camera would be perfect for studio/landscape/architectural photos. It doesn't need great video or high ISOs. Or IBIS! I know I'm one of the few whackos left who hasn't converted to IBIS-ism, but with this type camera I'm using a tripod anyway. And I don't want to pay extra for the added complexity I'll never use. The 5DS optimizes everything for quality (softer mirror return, stronger tripod mount, etc)—I personally believe that means bolting your sensor down.


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## freejay (Mar 11, 2019)

Oh yeah: Everybody is starting to build his or her perfect camera in their minds - and reality will fail them massively... ;-)


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## Hector1970 (Mar 11, 2019)

I think it was always going to be the next Canon mirrorless because it seems the next easiest camera to make. I may have a bad model but I’ve never fully liked the 5DSR. For me the 50MP are not worth the hassle of dealing with the additional data. I really only found it good in a studio. I think if I wanted 70MP files I’d go medium format.
I know birders want this camera. It would get extra pixels on the target.
I’ve personally never found this a great advantage. I’ve found getting closer better but I’m not a specialist in birds.


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## freejay (Mar 11, 2019)

Since we're on it: I don't need more megapixels than my R. But I'd like IBIS (esp. for third party lenses) and a little more speed - resulting in higher video frame rates, non-crop 4K, less rolling shutter, faster continuous autofocus, less "black out" - that's more or less it!


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## Aaron D (Mar 11, 2019)

Phynx2019 said:


> IBIS is for marketing and amateurs who don't know how to hold a camera.



Amen! Thank you for saying it out loud. And I don't want to switch it off either. Just put it in some consumer-ish video-leaning camera for those who've gotta have it.


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## stochasticmotions (Mar 11, 2019)

Can't wait for this, dreaming that it will also have a good buffer and can shoot 7-10 fps. Probably a pipe dream, but maybe Canon will try to out do both Nikon D850 and Sony A7RIII completely and not just in resolution. That being said if it can do what my 5DS can do I will still likely get one.


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## jmoya (Mar 11, 2019)

Stupid stupid canon. first they give us the R then the RP with old recycled sensors and wacky frame rates and crop video with no 120. Now they introduce a stupid overkill mp count on photos sensor that will pretty much mean you'll need to get a new computer and mega capacity memory cards and hard drives. No need for 70mp. 40 mp would've been more than enough. The ibis would be nice as the dual card slots as 120fps for 1080 and a non crop 4k in a useful codec. Canon will screw this up somehow. Trust me, they will. They always screw it up somehow. If not the body will be so damn big that'll it'll make it a hassel to travel with. Canon for life but c'mon...give us a break and give us something we can be proud of being a canon user. Losing faith on each canon body release for the past few years. I don't care how much the thing cost. Stop trying to make them affordable and just make them good. I'll pay whatever you want...just make it a good one!!!


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## crazyrunner33 (Mar 11, 2019)

digitalride said:


> That article is not wrong, and in theory one large cmos pixel could do slightly better than four small cmos pixels combined in software in terms of noise , but in practice with modern cameras smaller pixels downsampled does better in terms of noise and detail. 4 small pixels gives you more detail information to work with in software processing than 1 large pixel.



Correct. This has been proven with the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and the GH5S. They have the best low light for micro 4/3 and are being used as 12 mp sensors, but the sensors actually use 4 pixels for quad bayering, newer iterations of this sensor allow the quad bayering to work like a traditional bayer and run higher resolution. Same thing is being used for some of the newer cell phone sensors.


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## Randywayne (Mar 11, 2019)

My starting retail price prediction: $4499.00

But. . . depending on about a half dozen other things with it -frame rate, MRAW size, dynamic range (must be at least as good as my current 5D IV), no AA filter (which I would expect at this point) and battery life, I may still be very interested.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 11, 2019)

hendrik-sg said:


> if you had done the math correctly, you had found out that it would be 26.0MP in crop mode (instead of 66.7MP in FF mode)


You're absolutely right, my spreadsheet was broken


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## dtaylor (Mar 11, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> You're absolutely right, my spreadsheet was broken



Ahhh...so you're using Microsoft Excel


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## jolyonralph (Mar 11, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> Ahhh...so you're using Microsoft Excel



How dare you! 

Google Docs


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## gbc (Mar 11, 2019)

After 5 months of using the R alongside my 5DIV, I'm now really hoping the next R camera is a 5DIV replacement. Throw a second card slot and a AF point joystick on there and I'm all in on the R.


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## TMHKR (Mar 11, 2019)

If 70 Mpx sensor is confirmed, you don't have to give a slightest hope for better video features. This will probably be the 5DS replacement, nothing more. Anyway, unless the Cinema EOS factory mysteriously ends up in fire, don't expect video-oriented R camera anytime soon, if ever.


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## Talys (Mar 11, 2019)

For me, it will come down to the quality of the pixels at base and higher ISOs. If I take a 20 or 30 megapixel crop, how will it look compared to a 20-30 megapixel camera with a longer focal length lens?

I don't care about IBIS, but 7-8fps would be wondrous at that megapixel.

But, if the camera is good for general purpose use and usable for wildlife, there is a good chance Canon could have my money.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 11, 2019)

jonebize said:


> Is Canon likely to ever release a low-light line similar to the Sony A7s line?


If there’s a sufficient market for it.


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## Yasko (Mar 11, 2019)

I guess the price will be around 4000 $. A car or a camera?


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## gzroxas (Mar 11, 2019)

Markeran said:


> I'll go for all what has been posted as wishes for the EOS-R "professional" but please NO 70 megapixels. We just don't need such a high resolution. I have got a 5Ds and it requires a careful handling at high shooting speeds to keep everything sharp. For what concerns me 40 Mp is good enough and this in any case will achieve a higher frame rate than an impossible 70 Mp for which, even as a landscape photographer, I do not see the purpose.


Absolutely agree with you, I'm okay with 26 to 45mp but 70 is just going to kill the possibilities of high FPS and good low light, as well as video.
IBIS, Dual Card, Joystick and new sensor are all more than welcome, but the 70Mp will just make it more expensive and more niche than it should be.
It would be a godsend for almost everyone if it was an "upgraded" R that had all the complaints fixed


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## AJ (Mar 11, 2019)

This will be a fantastic landscape/architecture camera. It will need some R-mount wideangles and ultrawides, which should be spectacular given that the lens elements can be closer to the sensor.


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## Tony Bennett (Mar 11, 2019)

proutprout said:


> Yeaeh this means we’ll just have to wait another year or 2 for a video oriented camera. I’m wondering if canon though about the YouTube crowd. I need 120fps ! Crap maybe i’ll end up beeing a Sony shooter, cant wait forever.


I couldn't wait forever either. I've already bought into the Sony system with the A7 III and Tamron 28-75. It's a really nice setup. And just so you know I'm not some Sony fanboy, I shoot with the Mark IV and have 10 Canon lenses including the 16-35 version #3 and two 24-70 version 2's and the 70-200 version #3 that I just bought in the last year. All of these work great with the Sigma MC-11 adapter.


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## riker (Mar 11, 2019)

So 5d5 mirrorless is 2020. If at all.


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## riker (Mar 11, 2019)

I wish it was just 50MP with 8 FPS.
Coz 70MP would be 4-5 FPS and they will probably not let us have a simple switch to 40 MP @ 10 FPS. Just too great to have and ruins 1Dx line.


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## marioslrzn (Mar 11, 2019)

Tony Bennett said:


> I couldn't wait forever either. I've already bought into the Sony system with the A7 III and Tamron 28-75. It's a really nice setup. And just so you know I'm not some Sony fanboy, I shoot with the Mark IV and have 10 Canon lenses including the 16-35 version #3 and two 24-70 version 2's and the 70-200 version #3 that I just bought in the last year. All of these work great with the Sigma MC-11 adapter.


I’m keeping all my ef lenses because they’re going to be better for video because of the ND filter. For video it’s more about the contrast than the sharpness. So I’m definitely waiting for a pro R version. I have a 1DX ii and still produces awesome images and video.


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## marioslrzn (Mar 11, 2019)

riker said:


> I wish it was just 50MP with 8 FPS.
> Coz 70MP would be 4-5 FPS and they will probably not let us have a simple switch to 40 MP @ 10 FPS. Just too great to have and ruins 1Dx line.


The R version of 1DX probably be 30fps. It’s a $6000 market and will have good video cause it’s a $6000 camera. The next Pro R should be 7-8fps IBIS dual slot 50-70mp $4000. Full frame video 4k30fps more like the a7r and z7 decent but not great. Hopefully it has a crop mode option for further reach. Either way i’m Getting it, should be the new sensor for canon. Can’t wait to get my hands on the new R lenses


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## RobbieHat (Mar 11, 2019)

I will gladly take the bump in resolution. I will require an increase in DR for me to move. I would welcome a bump in FPS but don't expect it. Combine this with the super fast UWA zoom that has been rumored and this will make an epic landscape/astrophotography rig. 

Still hoping this sensor will make its way into a high FPS, cropper as a dedicated rig for wildlife and birds. 

Canon, please make me give you my money.


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## Daan Stam (Mar 11, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Sounds great. Praying for a much faster frame rate.


not happening with a (probably) 75 MP camera


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## AuroraChaserDoug (Mar 11, 2019)

jmoya said:


> Stupid stupid canon. first they give us the R then the RP with old recycled sensors and wacky frame rates and crop video with no 120. Now they introduce a stupid overkill mp count on photos sensor that will pretty much mean you'll need to get a new computer and mega capacity memory cards and hard drives. No need for 70mp. 40 mp would've been more than enough. The ibis would be nice as the dual card slots as 120fps for 1080 and a non crop 4k in a useful codec. Canon will screw this up somehow. Trust me, they will. They always screw it up somehow. If not the body will be so damn big that'll it'll make it a hassel to travel with. Canon for life but c'mon...give us a break and give us something we can be proud of being a canon user. Losing faith on each canon body release for the past few years. I don't care how much the thing cost. Stop trying to make them affordable and just make them good. I'll pay whatever you want...just make it a good one!!!



I love your sarcasm
On paper, the R and RP are don't seem to stack up to all the other offerings combined. No camera does. You will just end up with a Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none camera or a body no one could afford. On the other hand, the EOS-R and EOS-RP are great cameras for what they do because they don't try to do everything. The next EOS-R body will be a great camera because it will be exceptional at its target purpose and not because it checks off every box a YouTube reviewer will want when comparing it to all other camera bodies combined. Regardless of how the next EOS-R body is spec'ed out, it will leverage the capabilities of the new RF glass to produce fantastic images.


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## slclick (Mar 11, 2019)

jmoya said:


> Stupid stupid canon. first they give us the R then the RP with old recycled sensors and wacky frame rates and crop video with no 120. Now they introduce a stupid overkill mp count on photos sensor that will pretty much mean you'll need to get a new computer and mega capacity memory cards and hard drives. No need for 70mp. 40 mp would've been more than enough. The ibis would be nice as the dual card slots as 120fps for 1080 and a non crop 4k in a useful codec. Canon will screw this up somehow. Trust me, they will. They always screw it up somehow. If not the body will be so damn big that'll it'll make it a hassel to travel with. Canon for life but c'mon...give us a break and give us something we can be proud of being a canon user. Losing faith on each canon body release for the past few years. I don't care how much the thing cost. Stop trying to make them affordable and just make them good. I'll pay whatever you want...just make it a good one!!!


CR1 The C stand for CHILL


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## AuroraChaserDoug (Mar 11, 2019)

Talys said:


> For me, it will come down to the quality of the pixels at base and higher ISOs. If I take a 20 or 30 megapixel crop, how will it look compared to a 20-30 megapixel camera with a longer focal length lens?
> 
> I don't care about IBIS, but 7-8fps would be wondrous at that megapixel.



I was thinking the same thing about IBIS. However, if shooting handheld with an RF 50mm f/1.2L on a 70MP body at 1.2 with a shutter speed of 1/50, what are the chances the image will have acceptable focus or be tack sharp? What about any lens at the normal minimum shutter speed? I believe IBIS will be required to eliminate the micro camera shake at normal shutter speeds on high MP bodies. Otherwise, every lens would be large and bulky with IS.


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## riker (Mar 11, 2019)

marioslrzn said:


> The R version of 1DX probably be 30fps. It’s a $6000 market and will have good video cause it’s a $6000 camera. The next Pro R should be 7-8fps IBIS dual slot 50-70mp $4000. Full frame video 4k30fps more like the a7r and z7 decent but not great. Hopefully it has a crop mode option for further reach.



I think I can safely bet we are not getting [email protected] 6 max which will be sad. But the real point is how sad it is to have a camera which would be capable of [email protected] with just a lower res and higher fps switch but it will not be implemented.
Yep, I bet $4500. Guys thinking 2-3k have no idea.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

riker said:


> I think I can safely bet we are not getting [email protected] 6 max which will be sad. But the real point is how sad it is to have a camera which would be capable of [email protected] with just a lower res and higher fps switch but it will not be implemented.
> Yep, I bet $4500. Guys thinking 2-3k have no idea.



6?

anything over 3 with a single DIGIC would be amazing. Maybe 5 if they use dual DIGIC's.

where's this 40MP coming from are you just pulling that out of the air? they can't even demonstratably do 10 fps at 40MP.


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## cellomaster27 (Mar 11, 2019)

riker said:


> I wish it was just 50MP with 8 FPS.
> Coz 70MP would be 4-5 FPS and they will probably not let us have a simple switch to 40 MP @ 10 FPS. Just too great to have and ruins 1Dx line.



Honestly, if canon fears for their 1Dx line, they won't at least match what the competition offers. I mean, its mirrorless. The speed of the shutter is no longer an issue - processing and software technology is. 
I do hope that they will offer an option for lower MP at higher frame rates. I'd be happy with 7-8 fps.. more than happy. The tracking system is great albeit a slow shutter rate even on the Eos R.


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## Eersel (Mar 11, 2019)

While 70MP is interesting... I was hoping for:
45 - 50 MP
8 - 10 FPS
IBIS
BSI

We know that Canon can do all the MP they want as they have some insane Commercial Grade sensor builds... but I have series questions about Signal to Noise on anything 50 MP plus.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Mar 11, 2019)

I would like to see two versions of whatever the next "R" Canon becomes. 

Owing a 5DS, I would prefer 50 megapixels or less, or the option to shoot medium RAW. And I'm fine with no IBIS. As long as two bodies could both have dual card slots and some extra features, maybe one could be 75 megapixels with IBIS for more money, and another 42 megapixels and no IBIS for less money. I think both would sell.


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## Krob78 (Mar 11, 2019)

pj1974 said:


> This could potentially be the camera that brings over to FF mirrorless / RF mount. While I don't need 70MP, a higher end body than the EOS R is what I'm looking for. IBIS, faster frame rate, better ergonomics, potentially some improvements in AF, dual card slots - these are all features I would welcome.
> 
> I will keep looking forward to Canon's camera body and lens offerings in this mount. In the meantime, my DSLRs and EF/EF-S lenses, including some L glass serve me very well.


Agreed! 70mp is overkill for me as well, I'd gladly trade off some of those mp's for faster frame rate. The EOS R is definitely substandard with it's frame rate for FF mirrorless in my opinion. I do own a copy of the EOS R and I think it's a huge step in the right direction. I find as I did with my 5d Mk IV, when it initially came out, it was dragged through the mud as it were, with many folks here and many other sites, saying it wasn't worth the upgrade from my 5d Mk III. I bought it, expecting to send it back, but after 30 minutes of shooting with it, I knew it wasn't going anywhere! lol.. So what I mean here, is that the EOS R seems to be a fair shake better than a lot of the naysayers had complained about... 

I like the EOS R, I've not fallen in love with it by any means, but I do like it. I'm sending the copy I have back for another copy, as this first one seems to have some focusing issues, primarily a focus shift. It seems to grab focus at about 3-4" above the focal point and about the same to the right of the focal point. 

If I can like it a lot, I'll keep it and wait for the next iteration to come out, end of year, as it sounds much more capable, depending on how much of the info is true. I think that ibis would be great, but many of my EF L lenses are already stabilized, so not a huge issue for me. That said, it would be a plus, one would think. Additionally, I feel the price tag may cause some eye blisters when it's finally announced...

All the best,

Ken


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## Krob78 (Mar 11, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> I would like to see two versions of whatever the next "R" Canon becomes.
> 
> Owing a 5DS, I would prefer 50 megapixels or less, or the option to shoot medium RAW. And I'm fine with no IBIS. As long as two bodies could both have dual card slots and some extra features, maybe one could be 75 megapixels with IBIS for more money, and another 42 megapixels and no IBIS for less money. I think both would sell.


I still think that dual card slots would be great, but maybe not having a CF card slot. I think we don't need that as the extra slot anymore...


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

Krob78 said:


> Agreed! 70mp is overkill for me as well, I'd gladly trade off some of those mp's for faster frame rate.



then it's not the camera for you. yours is coming out in 2020.

I'm disappointed they dropped it down from 120MP to be honest.


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## Krob78 (Mar 11, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> then it's not the camera for you. yours is coming out in 2020.
> 
> I'm disappointed they dropped it down from 120MP to be honest.


I understand how you feel, I do have some agreement with your previous post points as well. Being mirrorless, it just seems as if they could squeeze perhaps 10-12 fps out of it, without much effort. For me personally, if they had to go from 70mp to 50mp, I'd be okay with it. If I did venture in to a photography needing the additional few fps rate, I'd be fine with the 70mp. Actually I'm fine with it anyway, I just think they could pull the fps up just a tad without compromising much in the mp department...


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> then it's not the camera for you. yours is coming out in 2020.
> 
> I'm disappointed they dropped it down from 120MP to be honest.



Rough FPS..

DIGIC 8 in the R does 8 FPS at 30MP for 240MP/Second. This is the fastest DIGIC 8 is currently running.

That equates to 3.4 FPS at 70MP.

Let's assume a 70% improvement using a dual DIGIC arrangement. That's assuming they can run dual DIGIC on a mirrorless camera with a smaller shell, and also a high power requirement for EVF/LCD use.

That would be 408MP/Second which would be around 5.75FPS.

it's probably not going to do 6, 7 or 8 fps, and Canon's never done a high speed crop before either.

Assuming they can't do a dual DIGIC (which may be unlikely) even 50MP leads to around 4.75 fps, so lowering the MP isn't going to significantly increase the FPS.


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## Krob78 (Mar 11, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> Rough FPS..
> 
> DIGIC 8 in the R does 8 FPS at 30MP for 240MP/Second. This is the fastest DIGIC 8 is currently running.
> 
> ...


Right... Unfortunately, it's only doing 5 fps with tracking enabled.. fortunately, I've got good form and skills for tracking over the years! lol.. 

Yes, I'd have to agree, it would most likely have to be a dual digic arrangement, for certain. Fortunately, I do have the current R model and it's pretty decent. I also retained my 5d4 as well and I'm certain it will serve me well into 2020 for "mine" to get here! I'll look forward to your critique after you've been able to get "yours" and put it through the paces... 

Didn't they produce 10 fps with the 7D Mk II? That's a crop...


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## rrcphoto (Mar 11, 2019)

Krob78 said:


> Right... Unfortunately, it's only doing 5 fps with tracking enabled.. fortunately, I've got good form and skills for tracking over the years! lol..
> 
> Yes, I'd have to agree, it would most likely have to be a dual digic arrangement, for certain. Fortunately, I do have the current R model and it's pretty decent. I also retained my 5d4 as well and I'm certain it will serve me well into 2020 for "mine" to get here! I'll look forward to your critique after you've been able to get "yours" and put it through the paces...



I doubt it will have dual digics unless it's a 1D form factor with a battery to match.

this is just pure throughput not even talking tracking.

the 7D Mark II only had a throughput of 200MP/second and it even had dual digics to try and do that with. one DIGIC 8 chip is 20% faster than the dual 6 DIGICS in the 7D Mark II.


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## Krob78 (Mar 11, 2019)

Agreed...


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 11, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> Rough FPS..
> 
> DIGIC 8 in the R does 8 FPS at 30MP for 240MP/Second. This is the fastest DIGIC 8 is currently running.
> 
> ...


Your figures are slightly off. The dual Digic 6 was good for 253mp/sec (5DSR) and the Digic 8 (it's replacement) usually matches the dual digic speed of the previous gen Dual Digic. So we would expect a Dual Digic 8 to be good for the same 250+mp/s. Often in the past, 6D/5D cameras received the new Digic but the camera performance was lower than the threshold capability of the processor. The dual digic rates are suaully 1.5x that of a sing;e digic processor of the same generation. 
The 1DxII has a Dual Digic 6+ processor that's good for (20.2_14) 282.8 mp/s...or (20.2_16) 323mp/s in live view mode. So its fair to say that a single Digic 8+ is probably capable of the same 280-325mp/s depending on the over clock. So it's reasonable to assume that a Dual Digic 8+ is likely to yield 420mp/s to 487mp/s....a truly astonishingly high through put. A 70mp sensor could yield a shutter speed of around 7fps with that processor. Interestingly, the same processor could also yield a 14fps 30mp 1dxIII and that's a truly mouth watering proposition. 
There's still life in the DSLR range for sure.


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## pj1974 (Mar 11, 2019)

There are a number of different ways a camera can alternate between shooting its full / natural resolution (let's assume 70MP for this hypothetical higher end Canon FF mirrorless / EOS RF mount camera body). I am hoping that Canon will introduce new hardware with this camera, that overcomes the data transfer bottle neck 

I have a reasonably sound appreciation of the general aspects of data through-put, computational power required for AF and tracking (in this case, on sensor/DPAF) and the interaction with frame rates on each of these. I do not understand all the technical details (I expect few of us outside a Canon lab/factory really do, though some folks on this forum are more clued up than others).

If this camera is a megapixel monster, of 70MP, I would be very happy with 3 fps at full resolution (or even 2 fps, as I very rarely need more than that for high megapixel settings). If Canon can provide one (or even more) high quality (i.e. decent DR and clean / low-noise images) at reduced resolution modes, that will allow it faster fps, that would (obviously) meet the wishes of many a photographer who captures images across multiple genres (as I do).

Having mRAW and sRAW are important considerations here, as the flexibility of post processing with RAW files gives more latitude than JPEGs. I see the APS-C (crop mode) as being distinctly different to reduced resolution modes. For this reason, I am keen to see both used in all Canon FF mirrorless... and I aim to keep at least a few of my EF-S / APS-C compatible lenses (e.g. the Canon EF-S 10-18mm STM, Sigma 8-16mm HSM, and potentially the very handy Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM etc).

I would love to see Canon pull off a great product like this... and even though it will likely be relatively expensive, this one product would serve many photographers so well. Video features / functionality / capacity is much less important to me, than still photos, though I do appreciate for others, video is very important. For me, solid build quality, ergonomics, still photo quality, longevity (i.e. shutter rated to >=200,000 actuations would be great) and photographic features are things I want.

I am looking forward to keeping an eye on what Canon will pull out of the hat! With their seriously good RF lenses, I believe Canon has a serious quality FF Mirrorless up their sleeve.... 

PJ


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## transpo1 (Mar 12, 2019)

Well, this camera sounds like $6000.


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## kurt765 (Mar 12, 2019)

Does Canon even acknowledge the need for them to improve dynamic range of their sensors? I think the chance that DR will be improved upon the 5Ds/r with this rumored camera is basically nonexistent. Maybe miracles will happen and the new camera will have 5DIV dynamic range with 70mp but I REALLY doubt it.


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## 360iViews (Mar 12, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> All my YouTube videos are in slow motion. Makes my twerks and Brazilian wax instructional videos more interesting. So yes, 120fps is huge. There is a ton of slow-mo on YouTube. Sony.



Hmm, a reverse Brazilian in slo-mo. Ouch?!?!


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## riker (Mar 12, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> 6?
> 
> anything over 3 with a single DIGIC would be amazing. Maybe 5 if they use dual DIGIC's.
> 
> where's this 40MP coming from are you just pulling that out of the air? they can't even demonstratably do 10 fps at 40MP.



Canon could do [email protected] 4 years ago with the 5Ds. At the same time Sony could do [email protected] Since Oct 2017 Sony has [email protected] - the new EOS R is going to be 2 years after this. They should be able to produce [email protected] but I keep saying [email protected] coz I don't want to get greedy. Expecting less than what Sony did 2 years earlier hopefully makes me humble


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## bhf3737 (Mar 12, 2019)

cayenne said:


> I"m thinking about maybe renting the BM Design 4K pocket camera, and maybe the metabones adapter for my EF lenses, just to play with it and see how it works and how the workflow is. I like with the BM Design, you also get included the FULL version fo Davinci Resolve....like a $300 value.
> ...
> But with the reasonable price of the BM 4K camera for video, a dedicated very well rated camera, I would look into buying it too primarily for video and using my "R" can 5D3 cameras as backup or B roll cameras.
> 
> cayenne


Good luck with the continuous autofocus with BM pocket cinema. It has a mind of its own when comes to auto focus! 
Manual focus will be fine though.


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## bhf3737 (Mar 12, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> I doubt it will have dual digics unless it's a 1D form factor with a battery to match.
> 
> this is just pure throughput not even talking tracking.
> 
> the 7D Mark II only had a throughput of 200MP/second and it even had dual digics to try and do that with. one DIGIC 8 chip is 20% faster than the dual 6 DIGICS in the 7D Mark II.


5DS(R) has Dual DIGIC 6 image processors. So theoretically dual processor in 5D form factor camera is doable, hence 5-6FPS is probable, which is quite a lot for a high megapixel camera like this.


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 12, 2019)

Treyarnon said:


> probably - but Canon has been pretty aggressive with pricing the R models so far - so here hoping the price starts with a 2 or a 3 and not a 4


Canon EOS R is $300 more than the competitions without IBIS, dual card slot, poorer eyeAF, 2 year old 5D IV sensor, and limited 4K options. I think they would want at least $3000 and up.

Sigh, 70 mpx is a lot for me. I pre-ordered Panasonic S1. It's everything I wish Canon 5D V equivalent would be in mirror less form.

Panasonic S1 $2500 with free battery & battery grip ($435 value).

5.76 million dot EVF
Dual IS (6 stop stabilization IBIS + IS)
Dual card slot (CF express support, UHS-II)
ergonomic & weather sealed.
EyeAF with animal tracking
Fully touch screen LCD
4K 60P, 4K 30 unlimited
Very clean high ISO
EF-L adapter with 100% compatibility with Sigma Art lenses.
High resolution mode S1 96 mpx, S1R 187 mpx
Focus bracketing


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## rrcphoto (Mar 12, 2019)

riker said:


> Canon could do [email protected] 4 years ago with the 5Ds.



they also did that with dual DIGIC 6's. While DIGIC 8 is quicker, even with dual DIGIC 8's as the math showed, it isn't going to be considerably faster than 5 fps at 70mp.

then we have the heat and the power required, something I really doubt they'll shove into a 5D sized camera body. IMO, expecting anything over 3 is simply going to lead to disappointment. the R with a single DIGIC already has problems enough with battery life.

certainly some expecting faster than 8 will. lol


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## marioslrzn (Mar 12, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Canon EOS R is $300 more than the competitions without IBIS, dual card slot, poorer eyeAF, 2 year old 5D IV sensor, and limited 4K options. I think they would want at least $3000 and up.
> Sigh, 70 mpx is a lot for me. I pre-ordered Panasonic S1. It's everything I wish Canon 5D V equivalent would be in mirror less form.
> Panasonic S1 $2500 with free battery & battery grip ($435 value).
> 
> ...


The problem with Panasonic the focus system is not as good as canon and no where near the quality of lenses. The camera body is only $2300 so it’s the cheapest thing compare to the RF glass coming. 14-24 f1.4 I mean who else is going to deliver that, nobody not even close. I’ll be happy with the next Pro R if it has IBIS 40mp 8-10fps, cause as soon as it comes then I’ll be buying pretty much every RF lens cause they all sound amazing, what other camera company you can say that about. What RF lens coming out doesn’t bring excitement. You’ll be able to use all your ef lenses for video with the nd filter. There’s millions of people just waiting for the lenses to drop and a pro body and you’ll see everyone switching back. Panasonic 50mmf1.4 is huge compare to the RF version and the RF is f1.2...anyway have fun with your gear


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## jhpeterson (Mar 12, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Interestingly, the same processor could also yield a 14fps 30mp 1dxIII and that's a truly mouth watering proposition.


+1
Who's to say we can't get that configuration in this body in the form of mRAW?


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 12, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> EyeAF with animal tracking
> EF-L adapter with 100% compatibility with Sigma Art lenses.



Does it matter which mount (i.e., can you adapt EF and F mount sigma lenses)?

I’ll be looking for your review of the AF system. Being CDAF it may be a bit slower, but who knows?


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 12, 2019)

marioslrzn said:


> The problem with Panasonic the focus system is not as good as canon and no where near the quality of lenses. The camera body is only $2300 so it’s the cheapest thing compare to the RF glass coming. 14-24 f1.4 I mean who else is going to deliver that, nobody not even close. I’ll be happy with the next Pro R if it has IBIS 40mp 8-10fps, cause as soon as it comes then I’ll be buying pretty much every RF lens cause they all sound amazing, what other camera company you can say that about. What RF lens coming out doesn’t bring excitement. You’ll be able to use all your ef lenses for video with the nd filter. There’s millions of people just waiting for the lenses to drop and a pro body and you’ll see everyone switching back. Panasonic 50mmf1.4 is huge compare to the RF version and the RF is f1.2...anyway have fun with your gear



The latest FW 0.7 was tracking well and sensitive to -6 EV. No pulsating and they just updated to version 1 so will see. Canon AF isn't the best anymore. I think Sony new AF system is the best if I absolutely care about AF. I don't even need the best AF system like Sony to take decent picture either so ability to use eyeAF and AI tracking is already more than enough for me. I used to shoot with Canon 6D with focus and recompose.

Panasonic 50 1.4 is a very nice lens from what I've tested and seen sample so are their other choices I've tried. I've been really happy with Sigma Art glasses like the Sigma 105 1.4 Art and 135 1.8, Sigma 14-24 2.8 Art, 14mm 1.8.

The new lenses are very nice but none really tempt me for the type of photography I shoot or make me want to pay $3000 for a lens. My most use lens is a 105 1.4 Art followed by Sigma 14-24 2.8 Art.

All lenses from most company nowadays are pretty damn good for me. I've no qualm from Panasonic, Sigma, Tamron, etc. The glass isn't going to be a limiting factor for me. None of my clients really care if I shot an image from a Sigma, GM, etc nor I care enough to pixel peep.

Maybe Canon will bring something that tempt me back or don't. It needs to be something significant given the Panasonic S1 is $2500 and I'm perfectly happy with my current lens line up that I got for great price. More mpx, faster fps isn't enough to tempt me especially Canon charging more than the competitions. I rather use that money toward traveling.

I'm traveling to Europe and more places this year so I look forward to using dual IS (IBIS + IS) that can be hand held 4 seconds in places that ban tripod and eyeAF when I hand it over to a non photographer.

My decision to leave Canon is based on my needs and priority. No camera is perfect. I'm just not happy with EOS R and that's why I return it and the way EOS R camera body is heading toward. I'm happy with any trinity lens from any camera company and my Sigma 105 1.4 Art which I use most.


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 12, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> Does it matter which mount (i.e., can you adapt EF and F mount sigma lenses)?
> 
> I’ll be looking for your review of the AF system. Being CDAF it may be a bit slower, but who knows?



Sigma Rep claimed to have 100% compatibility with Sigma EF lens. I'm guessing it's because they can add FW update to support their own lenses. I don't expect Canon EF lens to work perfectly so newer EF lens will work better. Some will work better than others but they aren't going to support another company via free FW update. I owned more Sigma Art lenses so I may sell Canon EF lens to get a 24-70 2.8 IS when they come out.

CDAF is very fast and accurate. Down to -6EV which is the same as Canon. Even for C-AF it is very competent but it won't beat DPAF or Sony but I don't need the best C-AF to get great pictures. It just need to be fast, accurate, and low light sensitive which it is. Also no banding under certain lighting condition like those exhibit with PDAF sensor/DPAF.

Here is the tracking test


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 12, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Sigma Rep claimed to have 100% compatibility with Sigma EF lens. I'm guessing it's because they can add FW update to support their own lenses. I don't expect Canon EF lens to work perfectly so newer EF lens will work better. Some will work better than others but they aren't going to support another company via free FW update. I owned more Sigma Art lenses so I may sell Canon EF lens to get a 24-70 2.8 IS when they come out.
> 
> CDAF is very fast and accurate. Down to -6EV which is the same as Canon. Even for C-AF it is very competent but it won't beat DPAF or Sony but I don't need the best C-AF to get great pictures. It just need to be fast, accurate, and low light sensitive which it is.
> 
> Here is the tracking test


CDAF is indeed very accurate, but since it needs to iterate it’s slower than phase all else equal. Panasonic’s system (depth from defocus) May be faster than traditional CDAF. I’m skeptical it’s faster than PDAF though since it still needs two working frames, and it’s limited to use with lenses it understands the characteristics of. Sigma due to the partnership may be fully supported. Canon lenses if you’re hoping to adapt will be less effective, I expect. I hope it’s great, though. Please report back when you get it!


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 12, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> CDAF is indeed very accurate, but since it needs to iterate it’s slower than phase all else equal. Panasonic’s system (depth from defocus) May be faster than traditional CDAF. I’m skeptical it’s faster than PDAF though since it still needs two working frames, and it’s limited to use with lenses it understands the characteristics of. Sigma due to the partnership may be fully supported. Canon lenses if you’re hoping to adapt will be less effective, I expect.


Here is a test vs Nikon. It's very fast. Good enough for my needs.


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## digitalride (Mar 12, 2019)

AuroraChaserDoug said:


> if shooting handheld with an RF 50mm f/1.2L on a 70MP body at 1.2 with a shutter speed of 1/50, what are the chances the image will have acceptable focus or be tack sharp?



Pretty much the same chances that that image would be tack sharp if shot with a 24MP 1.6x crop camera since that is roughly the same pixel density. Some people say to go 1/(focal length * 1.5 ) with crop bodies and that's what I like to use. However pixel densities on full frame keep going up but the original 1/(focal length) rule is still valid in a lot of cases because a higher MP image will still be at roughly the same level of sharpness if downsampled to the same size as a lower MP image. However if you want the same sharpness while pixel peeing at 1:1 or printing proportionally bigger then you'll want faster shutter speeds ( or stabilization if hand holding shake is the limiting factor ) .


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## Aaron D (Mar 12, 2019)

AJ said:


> This will be a fantastic landscape/architecture camera. It will need some R-mount wideangles and ultrawides...



That upcoming 15-35 might do it for me! I'm going to get a loner EF 16-35 to see how close it comes to capturing what my 17 TSE does. If the 16 is good, 15 will be even better! And with filters! And without the giant bug-eye, there should be much less ghosting/flaring. May not need an RF TSE! The 17 schmears pixils when shifted very far at all, so I've been getting better results stitching images, anyway...

OK I'm hyperventilating a little.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 12, 2019)

Aaron D said:


> That upcoming 15-35 might do it for me! I'm going to get a loner EF 16-35 to see how close it comes to capturing what my 17 TSE does. If the 16 is good, 15 will be even better! And with filters! And without the giant bug-eye, there should be much less ghosting/flaring. May not need an RF TSE! The 17 schmears pixils when shifted very far at all, so I've been getting better results stitching images, anyway...
> 
> OK I'm hyperventilating a little.


The TS-E 17 is incomparable to the 16-35 anything, and the 11-24. You either need tilt and shift or you don’t. If you do you need the TS-E, if you don’t need tilt and shift the various 16-35’s and the 11-24 are all amazing lenses and quantum leaps over previous Canon ultra wide zooms.


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## jeanluc (Mar 12, 2019)

gbc said:


> After 5 months of using the R alongside my 5DIV, I'm now really hoping the next R camera is a 5DIV replacement. Throw a second card slot and a AF point joystick on there and I'm all in on the R.


Which do prefer and why? Just curious.


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## Chuckmet (Mar 12, 2019)

Tony Bennett said:


> I couldn't wait forever either. I've already bought into the Sony system with the A7 III and Tamron 28-75. It's a really nice setup. And just so you know I'm not some Sony fanboy, I shoot with the Mark IV and have 10 Canon lenses including the 16-35 version #3 and two 24-70 version 2's and the 70-200 version #3 that I just bought in the last year. All of these work great with the Sigma MC-11 adapter.


I have been a Canon user since 1974 shooting their SLR and DSLR's exclusively. I love my Canon equipment but I shoot stills, not video. I think the 5D mkII with it's video capability was an anomaly and will not be repeated with new models. Canon realized that pushing their DSLR line with better video will cut into their Cinema line and they are unwilling to do this. So, if you are waiting for Canon to come out with a highly capable videocentric DSLR your only going to be disappointed.


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## dtaylor (Mar 12, 2019)

Chuckmet said:


> Canon realized that pushing their DSLR line with better video will cut into their Cinema line and they are unwilling to do this. So, if you are waiting for Canon to come out with a highly capable videocentric DSLR your only going to be disappointed.



This is the meme but it's betrayed by the fact that Canon ships pro features like C-Log and offers 10-bit output at high bitrates. Also: when you watch instructional and review videos by professional cinematographers you quickly realize that A) it's amazing how far ILC cinema features have come, and B) there are still very good reasons for buying real cinema cameras and Hollywood is not abandoning RED, Arri, or Canon and Sony cinema bodies for A73's.

At any rate, Canon has to deal with what the competition is doing. It's much more likely that Canon has a readout speed issue than that they are trying to protect a line that doesn't need protection.


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## dtaylor (Mar 12, 2019)

Re: the long debate over frame rates for a 70mp Canon

I would be disappointed if it didn't offer at least 5 fps. Given the way Canon likes to segment their products I would expect 5-6 fps. There's no reason to believe that would be difficult or impossible given the evolution of current DIGIC tech, and I can't see them going backwards vs. the 5Ds/sr bodies.

That said, I personally went from 8 fps down to 5 fps when I moved to the full frame 5Ds. What I discovered is that my actual number of keepers did not go down, just my rate of "not quite the one I'll pick for use" frames. I rely more on myself to anticipate the peak moment than I used to. But I'm honestly thinking that's a good thing. "Spray and pray" is just a card/disk burner.

I've also been more successful at capturing some rather difficult peak moment shots (think fighter crossovers at airshows) simply because I have the confidence to zoom out a bit and crop in post, thereby giving my reaction time an edge.

At any rate, Canon's high resolution R is not their 5D4 or 1DX replacement R, so I don't know why people are so anxious about it. If they are indeed suffering readout speed issues and they've projected that won't be resolved until the 2020 cycle, then a high resolution R makes perfect sense as the next body. Nobody in the market for one will care about "only" 5 fps or limited video. They will simply be looking at the images which can be produced with RF and EF glass on such a high resolution sensor.


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## deleteme (Mar 12, 2019)

If it has a quieter shutter along with the other rumored features I will be very happy. 
It will replace the 5DsR for me.


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## dolina (Mar 12, 2019)

I hope this is the 5DsR/5D4/1DX2 replacement.

It's 2019 already! No more DSLRs please. I want 111% of all R&D resources for mirrorless


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## Avenger 2.0 (Mar 12, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> Good luck with the continuous autofocus with BM pocket cinema. It has a mind of its own when comes to auto focus!
> Manual focus will be fine though.



Didn't even know it could do continuous autofocus. Would not use this for weddings or events anyway.
It's a cinema camera designed primarily for narrative filmmaking. Would only use this with one-time focus or manual focus.


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## proutprout (Mar 12, 2019)

When you think about it, there’s someone in Canon that said : let’s create amazing lenses that no one will buy, so maybe after a year or so we can create a camera that doesn’t interest anyone. And they did it ! Amazing !


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## degos (Mar 12, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> I've also been more successful at capturing some rather difficult peak moment shots (think fighter crossovers at airshows) simply because I have the confidence to zoom out a bit and crop in post, thereby giving my reaction time an edge.



That's fie for your personal use, but for selling images the buyers are looking for insane detail, down to the patches on the pilots' arms. Seriously. They want to be able to do an A3 spread cropped to the cockpits.

Anything short of 600mm focal length for a crossover is now considered 'slacking' and quite a few shooters are using 600 + 1.4x


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## masterpix (Mar 12, 2019)

In my vision I see a 1Dx look alike with two exceptions: no mirror and no penta-prism in it. Why not keep the good ergonomics of the DSLR and just "remove" the parts which are not needed in the mirrorless camera? if you remove the mirror part, you can squeeze all the electronics into something thinner, no need to decrease the width or the height of the camera. Just a thought...


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## dtaylor (Mar 12, 2019)

degos said:


> That's fie for your personal use, but for selling images the buyers are looking for insane detail, down to the patches on the pilots' arms.



LOL are you kidding with this post? You're not going to see '...the patches on pilot's arms...' while shooting two aircraft in a crossover for a host of reasons that have nothing to do with focal length.



> Seriously. They want to be able to do an A3 spread cropped to the cockpits.



Do you have any idea how tightly you can crop 50mp and still do A3?

That said, for a really detailed in flight cockpit shot you have to be close to the aircraft and the aircraft has to be angled so that you are looking into it. So basically a relatively slow, nearly overhead turn. When such a turn occurs anything 400mm and above will be enough. Hell, you might get away with 300mm. If it's not overhead then you are not going to "overpower" the distance with 600mm, 600mm x1.4, or even 600mm x2.

That's the dirty little secret with airshows. Having an idea of where a plane is going to do the thing you want to capture, and walking across the base to get as close as possible to that location, counts for more than focal length ever could. The relative magnifications between an aircraft passing over and an aircraft down flight line are easily an order of magnitude greater than the focal length range in Canon's (or anyone's) telephoto lineup.

In any case, you're never going to be that close to a crossover unless you're military. The maneuver isn't as dangerous as it looks, but it is still dangerous and it is not performed over civilian heads.


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## Del Paso (Mar 12, 2019)

cayenne said:


> True...*BUT*, it would be nice if it "could" be.....eh?
> I'd like to have that option...
> 
> 
> ...


OK!
Go and buy the Mercedes G wagon with it's AMG V12 engine, and all your wishes will come true...
The hi-speed EOS R will come someday, but with 20+ MP.


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## max_sr (Mar 12, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> If there’s a sufficient market for it.



This would be one way to get a true fullframe 4k video centric mirrorless from Canon. A 12 Mpixel full readout should be easier than with a higher pixel count.


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## Del Paso (Mar 12, 2019)

Canon about to turn out a hi-resolution camera, and they get flak since it won't be also a hi-fps and superlative video camera .
Criticism for the sake of criticism.
Landscapers are waiting for such a camera, and have usually no need for hi-fps. The Sony A 7s has 12 MP, and nobody seems to criticize it for not having 70 MP.
Strange, isn't it?
Are Wonderful Sony Fanboys on the loose again?


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## Kit. (Mar 12, 2019)

riker said:


> Canon could do [email protected] 4 years ago with the 5Ds.


Not a dual-pixel sensor.


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## edoorn (Mar 12, 2019)

So, the full frame R line could have in the future 5 models?

RP as base cheap model
R for the more advanced enthusiast / some pro's
R high res (5Ds replacement)
R5 (mid megapixel pro like a 5d4)
R1 (fast sports/action cam like a 1dx)
Could it be that the 5ds and 5d4 would be merged into one body, maybe by offering a M-raw option with higher fps?


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## max_sr (Mar 12, 2019)

edoorn said:


> So, the full frame R line could have in the future 5 models?
> 
> RP as base cheap model
> R for the more advanced enthusiast / some pro's
> ...



That's not seperated/confusing enough. Add at least 2 or 3 more lines of cameras. Every niche needs its own camera line.


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## analoggrotto (Mar 12, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> OK!
> Go and buy the Mercedes G wagon with it's AMG V12 engine, and all your wishes will come true...
> The hi-speed EOS R will come someday, but with 20+ MP.


Or a Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk with the Hellcat powertrain


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## dtaylor (Mar 12, 2019)

max_sr said:


> That's not seperated/confusing enough. Add at least 2 or 3 more lines of cameras. Every niche needs its own camera line.



We need at least a half dozen Rebel R's.


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## Jasonmc89 (Mar 12, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> not safe to assume that at all. they could simply take the 80D sensor and make it full frame .. that would be pretty close to the 70MP.


That’d probably be quite a nice sensor!


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## riker (Mar 12, 2019)

edoorn said:


> Could it be that the 5ds and 5d4 would be merged into one body, maybe by offering a M-raw option with higher fps?



OMG I wish, I would love Canon to the Moon and back forever. But I don't think so. Anything reaching [email protected] threatens 1 series too much.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 12, 2019)

riker said:


> OMG I wish, I would love Canon to the Moon and back forever. But I don't think so. Anything reaching [email protected] threatens 1 series too much.



As Steve Jobs said "If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will."

There will always be a market for a 1D level camera at a premium. But frame rate is far from the only reason people buy such bodies.


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## Del Paso (Mar 12, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> Or a Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk with the Hellcat powertrain


Hellcat?
A wonderful choice, no engine sounds better!


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## padam (Mar 12, 2019)

masterpix said:


> In my vision I see a 1Dx look alike with two exceptions: no mirror and no penta-prism in it. Why not keep the good ergonomics of the DSLR and just "remove" the parts which are not needed in the mirrorless camera? if you remove the mirror part, you can squeeze all the electronics into something thinner, no need to decrease the width or the height of the camera. Just a thought...


Because they are fundamentally different designs, the sensor (or the "heart") is placed differently the mount is placed differently, EVF is different, the motherboard is different, everything is different. It would look very ugly if they just changed those things and kept all the rest with even more unused space in the bodies (both the 5D and the 1D have a fair amount of it).
If they still kept the good old EF-mount and changed the viewfinder, it would be possible, although it is actually more difficult to clean the dust out that way and there is no mirror for protection, so apart from the EVF, you are only keeping the disadvantages of mirrorless without the advantages.

It is much more likely that we will see an evolution on the EOS R design with extra things like the On/Off switched replaced by a dial, the Touchbar replaced by a joystick as mentioned, etc.
And I expect the top-end model to have the grip built-in for the ultimate speed and not this one which is more specialised but not as expensive(since it is sort of a 5DsR replacement after all), but we'll see.


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## Del Paso (Mar 12, 2019)

max_sr said:


> That's not seperated/confusing enough. Add at least 2 or 3 more lines of cameras. Every niche needs its own camera line.


R "5" would be really fine, and the missing link between EOS R and EOS Hi-resolution.
Gimme gimme quick!


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## criscokkat (Mar 12, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> I doubt it will have dual digics unless it's a 1D form factor with a battery to match.
> 
> this is just pure throughput not even talking tracking.
> 
> the 7D Mark II only had a throughput of 200MP/second and it even had dual digics to try and do that with. one DIGIC 8 chip is 20% faster than the dual 6 DIGICS in the 7D Mark II.



There's also the possibility that they will come out with Digic 8+. This has happened several times before, the latest one was the Digic 6+. From my understanding the + versions were all die shrinks, which led to the chip performing faster (due to higher clock speeds) with less energy consumption. 

In addition I am 90% sure I remember reading posts where the issue with 8 frames per second on the R was more a limitation on the speed of the sensor, not just the digic chip's processing, and that the tracking speed limitation was a combination of both with potential room for optimization. I remember these conversations were more applied to video but high FPS with high pixels would also be in that boat. A greatly improved readout speed means the digic chip can start working on the issue faster, so with a brand new sensor design we could see some improvements in total throughput even without adding a 2nd digic chip or even upgrading the design through a die shrink.


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## Jasonmc89 (Mar 12, 2019)

cayenne said:


> True...*BUT*, it would be nice if it "could" be.....eh?
> I'd like to have that option...
> 
> 
> ...


Like a Bowler Wildcat?


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## Steven_nl (Mar 12, 2019)

If this is the next camera in the R lineup, I would be very very disapointed and I will probably switch to Sony. I do not want to wait till Q4 and I do not want to wait on a 70mp camera. It is useless for me. I shoot events mostly and I need a joystick and 2 cardslots. 30-40 MP is more then enough. Give me more dynamic range and better low light. That's a whole lot more important


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## riker (Mar 12, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> There will always be a market for a 1D level camera at a premium. But frame rate is far from the only reason people buy such bodies.


The framerate is far the most important attribute differentiating 1 series. It's like the resolution for the 5Ds series. A 10-12FPS 5d4 would be a whole lot different camera and I'm absolutely sure a significant amount (10-20%?) of 1Dx users would buy it instead of 1Dx for twice the price.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 12, 2019)

riker said:


> The framerate is far the most important attribute differentiating 1 series. It's like the resolution for the 5Ds series. A 10-12FPS 5d4 would be a whole lot different camera and I'm absolutely sure a significant amount (10-20%?) of 1Dx users would buy it instead of 1Dx for twice the price.



If a 1DX III is indeed due out soon then I think it makes sense to concentrate on the high resolution RF body first. 

With a 70 megapixel camera they will have a market-leading high-resolution camera. If they went for a higher framerate EOS R body it would be directly compared with the Sony A9, and I'm not convinced that Canon have the ability to produce a body that competes aggressively with the A9 in both features and price (yet). I'd love to be wrong on this.


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## jhpeterson (Mar 12, 2019)

riker said:


> The framerate is far the most important attribute differentiating 1 series. It's like the resolution for the 5Ds series. A 10-12FPS 5d4 would be a whole lot different camera and I'm absolutely sure a significant amount (10-20%?) of 1Dx users would buy it instead of 1Dx for twice the price.


I see the defining difference of the 1D series to be their rugged build and and water-resistant seals. At least to me, it's what sets them above all other Canon models and is the prime reason Nikon and Sony aren't in consideration. 
Other factors beside frame rate would be speed and reliability of autofocus performance as well as battery capacity.


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## gbc (Mar 12, 2019)

jeanluc said:


> Which do prefer and why? Just curious.


Well, it may just be a factor of only having the R for a five months while I've had the 5D for years, but if I had an important shoot where I had to be absolutely sure nothing would go wrong, I would take the 5D if I could only take one body. That said, if someone stole my 5DIV, I'm not totally sure I'd replace it with another 5DIV. I'd probably ride it out with the R and wait for the next, higher-end R body. 
I'm fairly indecisive by nature, so I always take way too much gear with me on shoots, and having the smaller size and weight of the R has made a big difference and it's the main reason I take it with me instead of the 5D. That, and I'm really appreciating the EVF a lot more than I thought I would. I was really put off by the blackout between shots at first, but I love having the exact exposure viewable in near real-time while I'm shooting. No chimping necessary, and my keeper rate is a lot higher now.
So not sure if this answers your question... I love the 5DIV and will continue to use, but the future is the R, and every future upgrade I make in my gear will be R bodies and RF lenses. I really can't imagine buying a new EF lens at this point.


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## mpb001 (Mar 12, 2019)

I have a feeling that an R body with these specs, coupled with the very fast new R glass is pretty much gonna kill it and all that’s currently available. I really do not need this equipment though. I would like to see more of the second tier f4 L RF lenses coming.


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## cayenne (Mar 12, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> Good luck with the continuous autofocus with BM pocket cinema. It has a mind of its own when comes to auto focus!
> Manual focus will be fine though.




Well....I've been shooting video with my 5D3 ever since I bought it when it came out. I've ONLY done manual focus....even when shooting myself by myself. I set up the shots (mostly cooking videos)...I have a large flat bench vice that holds a long metal ruler I got at Lowes, I place it where I'll be standing, set focus manually and then go take the shot, etc.

Works great.

I've read that most pro shoots do manual focus....so, that's what I tried to learn. I can do a pretty good job pulling focus when I'm shooting , like with bands and things, I have even gotten pretty good one handed (camera on monopod) zooming and pulling focus, to keep things in focus as the lens breathes a bit.

So, not problem with that.

Actually, having auto focus to play with for the first time in my life at all, might prove fun, but I trust doing it manually the most.

I've seen videos on YouTube where the damned camera goes in /out of focus and it drives me nuts. I can't believe the people leave it in and don't re-shoot it....hell, do people not know they can do multiple takes?

OH well...lemme get off this soapbox.


cayenne


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## CandySpan (Mar 12, 2019)

pj1974 said:


> This could potentially be the camera that brings over to FF mirrorless / RF mount. While I don't need 70MP, a higher end body than the EOS R is what I'm looking for. IBIS, faster frame rate, better ergonomics, potentially some improvements in AF, dual card slots - these are all features I would welcome.
> 
> I will keep looking forward to Canon's camera body and lens offerings in this mount. In the meantime, my DSLRs and EF/EF-S lenses, including some L glass serve me very well.



Have you actually used the current EOS R? The only thing the 5D IV has over it are the dual card slots. Everything else is better on the R, and I love my 5D IV. It’s highly unlikely to have a faster frame rate. For one it will have high MP, so it will be something currently unthinkable. Two, I believe 8 fps is plenty for most things, including bird photography and sports, so they’ll likely differentiate it a bit from the EOS R which is a value, and hold the frames back a bit.


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## CandySpan (Mar 12, 2019)

slclick said:


> You had me at joystick



Umm... moving the focus point via the lcd screen is so much faster than a lever. Of course if you like a joystick it’s cool. It’s just a much slower method.


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## cayenne (Mar 12, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Canon about to turn out a hi-resolution camera, and they get flak since it won't be also a hi-fps and superlative video camera .
> Criticism for the sake of criticism.
> Landscapers are waiting for such a camera, and have usually no need for hi-fps. The Sony A 7s has 12 MP, and nobody seems to criticize it for not having 70 MP.
> Strange, isn't it?
> Are Wonderful Sony Fanboys on the loose again?




I guess I"m just a little confused....If Canon were doing the mirrorless camera bodies in ascending order of popularity/sales or # of people interested in different types of shooting, I'd have thought that it would next BE something along the 5D4 replacement line....for more pro and prosumer needs (wedding shooters, portraits, etc)....concert shooters, other events...

I would have thought it would have been that crowd that was catered to next before you got to super high MP landscape shooters. I would have guessed they were a smaller group and more niche than the more general prosumer user crowd I listed above.

C


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## CandySpan (Mar 12, 2019)

jonebize said:


> Also, Canon is really outpacing Nikon at this point. And for it to be this early in the race, that's really saying something.



Yeah, I think the price will really surprise us. If the bring it in at the launch price of the Z7 it will be a winner!


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## CandySpan (Mar 12, 2019)

cayenne said:


> I guess I"m just a little confused....If Canon were doing the mirrorless camera bodies in ascending order of popularity/sales or # of people interested in different types of shooting, I'd have thought that it would next BE something along the 5D4 replacement line....for more pro and prosumer needs (wedding shooters, portraits, etc)....concert shooters, other events...
> 
> I would have thought it would have been that crowd that was catered to next before you got to super high MP landscape shooters. I would have guessed they were a smaller group and more niche than the more general prosumer user crowd I listed above.
> 
> C



Besides dual card slots, what does the 5D IV have over the R? Nothing, this coming from a 5D IV owner. People claiming they can’t do pro work with the EOS R are just talking. In studio, etc portrait photogs shoot tethered anyway. Cards really never fail, and if you’re a pro wedding photographer you always switch cards out to have different ones used, and you shoot with two bodies.


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## CandySpan (Mar 12, 2019)

CandySpan said:


> Besides dual card slots, what does the 5D IV have over the R? Nothing, this coming from a 5D IV owner. People claiming they can’t do pro work with the EOS R are just talking. In studio, etc portrait photogs shoot tethered anyway. Cards really never fail, and if you’re a pro wedding photographer you always switch cards out to have different ones used, and you shoot with two bodies.



I shoot wirh my R and 5D, and I use the D much more because you get all the mirrorless goodness, with 5D capability.


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 12, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> I have a feeling that an R body with these specs, coupled with the very fast new R glass is pretty much gonna kill it and all that’s currently available. I really do not need this equipment though. I would like to see more of the second tier f4 L RF lenses coming.



70 mpx camera killing it? I doubt it. I print 24 x 36 often and I never wish I had more mpx. 42mpx is already enough for a lot of professional landscapers and even then I think the appeal is limited.



CandySpan said:


> Besides dual card slots, what does the 5D IV have over the R? Nothing, this coming from a 5D IV owner. People claiming they can’t do pro work with the EOS R are just talking. In studio, etc portrait photogs shoot tethered anyway. Cards really never fail, and if you’re a pro wedding photographer you always switch cards out to have different ones used, and you shoot with two bodies.



I owned both. EOS R is better overall camera.



> Cards really never fail



Except the time it did, I was glad to have dual card slot. I shoot 2 bodies both with big cards and I rather not deal with card management especially for long weddings. Sure, you can mitigate the risk by swapping cards or Bluetooth backup but it's 2019, I want a camera to make my life more simple not finding workaround especially for hectic wedding.

Canon also think you should or else they wouldn't include dual card slot in 5D IV & 5D III. I think Canon is the first company to introduced 2 card slots in 2004. I have alot of insurance (health, life, car, professional photography insurance) for things that never happen to me, but that's what it's for: hope it never happen to you, but you glad it did. The extra cost for a dual card slot is just the cost of doing business for me.

But hey, it's your business. You run it however you want it to run including the risk you are willing to tolerate.

A lot of photographers nowadays shoot portraits on locations where we don't always have tethering option. That's why strobes with battery are so popular for on location and off camera lighting. Since we aren't limited by technology, it opens up more shooting opportunity.


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## CandySpan (Mar 12, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> 70 mpx camera killing it? I doubt it. I print 24 x 36 often and I never wish I had more mpx. 42mpx is already enough for a lot of professional landscapers and even then I think the appeal is limited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you’re an actual professional photographer shooting portraits, you’re almost always tethering for maximum control over the final product. We’ve all heard the arguments that for years pro photographers only had one roll of film per shoot. Same applies here, if you fear of a card failure, and you don’t tether, shoot multiple cards. I always tether on shoots because the memory is so much larger, and I don’t have to worry. Additionally, if you’re working with a team, which most pros do, they need to also see the output on a larger screen so they can spot things you as the photographer may not see. 

If you’re willing to pay extra for a card slot, then so be it, but the lack of one doesn’t not make it a consumer/prosumer level camera. Seriously, there’s nothing I can’t do with the R that I can do with the mkiv. However, there are multiple things I can do on the R that you can’t do on the 5D. 

I’d mostly be interested in a body without an AA filter for those circumstances where I don’t need to deal with repeating patterns or fabrics. The 30mp in the R and 5D IV are already plenty.


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 12, 2019)

CandySpan said:


> If you’re an actual professional photographer shooting portraits, you’re almost always tethering for maximum control over the final product. We’ve all heard the arguments that for years pro photographers only had one roll of film per shoot. Same applies here, if you fear of a card failure, and you don’t tether, shoot multiple cards. I always tether on shoots because the memory is so much larger, and I don’t have to worry. Additionally, if you’re working with a team, which most pros do, they need to also see the output on a larger screen so they can spot things you as the photographer may not see.
> 
> If you’re willing to pay extra for a card slot, then so be it, but the lack of one doesn’t not make it a consumer/prosumer level camera. Seriously, there’s nothing I can’t do with the R that I can do with the mkiv. However, there are multiple things I can do on the R that you can’t do on the 5D.
> 
> I’d mostly be interested in a body without an AA filter for those circumstances where I don’t need to deal with repeating patterns or fabrics. The 30mp in the R and 5D IV are already plenty.



How do people do it on locations (beach, flower field, city, etc)? Do they tether too? I guess a lot of photographers shooting portraits with strobes on locations aren't professionals.

Back then people are shooting film had no choice just like car didn't have seat belt. When there are new ways of doing things, I adapt to it.

It's funny that you dismiss dual card slot is a must for professional work but professional photographers shooting portraits "always tethering". 

I never said it's consumer/prosumer camera. I completely agree about EOS R over 5DIV. Don't looking to get into an argument when there is none.


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## Ladislav (Mar 12, 2019)

I usually take between 100-500 photos per day on my trips. On special occasions like air shows it can go to thousands. 70MP would not work for me at all. I would be constantly running out of storage and processing power to work with those images.


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## CandySpan (Mar 12, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> How do people do it on locations (beach, flower field, city, etc)? Do they tether too? I guess a lot of photographers shooting portraits with strobes on locations aren't professionals.
> 
> Back then people are shooting film had no choice just like car didn't have seat belt. When there are new ways of doing things, I adapt to it.
> 
> ...



Yes, I almost always tether, it’s so much easier to see what you’re getting. I either put my laptop on a terher tools stand, or on my bag. It’s super simple, and again, if I absolutely cannot tether, which I can’t think of the last time it happened, I simply backup my cards after each look. I would never let the fact that a camera having one card slot prevent me from buying it in this day and age. Canon simply did it as the last stand to protect the 5D, but it’s simply not enough. Thing about it. The very best video cameras on the market only have one card slot as well, all of the pro versions: Reds, Arris, etc, etc. 

The good thing Canon did do is use an SD as the single card, unlike Nikon where not only do you need to upgrade your system, you need to buy all new memory cards that are more expensive. Now that is a bit of a headache if you’re a Nikon shooter.


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## slclick (Mar 12, 2019)

CandySpan said:


> Umm... moving the focus point via the lcd screen is so much faster than a lever. Of course if you like a joystick it’s cool. It’s just a much slower method.


I know what you mean ,except for your "Umm" since it is a choice and/or preference. I truly enjoyed using the touchscreen on my M5, however on a larger body I would prefer a tactile control on the right side. Does everything need to be faster? No is the answer.


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## Kit. (Mar 12, 2019)

CandySpan said:


> Umm... moving the focus point via the lcd screen is so much faster than a lever.


Not if you are left-eyed.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Mar 12, 2019)

Krob78 said:


> I still think that dual card slots would be great, but maybe not having a CF card slot. I think we don't need that as the extra slot anymore...



Certainly I'll have no choice other than whatever slots Canon finally offers. But I tend to like the size of the CF cards better for handling, plus the contacts not being as exposed and fragile as the SD cards.

I saw a handy SD case review a guy posted on Youtube. He inserts his SD cards opposite the packaging picture so he's not pulling the card by the thin contact end. He removes from the thicker end. It was similar to a small hard Pelican case. use the small folding pocket pouch.


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## riker (Mar 12, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> If a 1DX III is indeed due out soon then I think it makes sense to concentrate on the high resolution RF body first.
> 
> With a 70 megapixel camera they will have a market-leading high-resolution camera. If they went for a higher framerate EOS R body it would be directly compared with the Sony A9, and I'm not convinced that Canon have the ability to produce a body that competes aggressively with the A9 in both features and price (yet). I'd love to be wrong on this.


Totally agree on the first part, never said otherwise. On the other hand I'm absolutely sure Canon has no intention at all to compete with A9. Never ever have I seen Canon directly compete with Sony specs, thus the considerable amount of flame. High framerate R is only due when they change the 1 series to mirrorless. 2024 Olympics?


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## riker (Mar 12, 2019)

jhpeterson said:


> I see the defining difference of the 1D series to be their rugged build and and water-resistant seals. At least to me, it's what sets them above all other Canon models and is the prime reason Nikon and Sony aren't in consideration.
> Other factors beside frame rate would be speed and reliability of autofocus performance as well as battery capacity.


The thing is 5d4's weather sealing and AF is pretty good too. You need really extreme conditions regarding those not to be sufficient. You will face the framerate limitation much earlier. Also not much difference in battery life when u have the grip on the 5d4 with 2 batteries.


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## digitalride (Mar 13, 2019)

For the people saying the only thing the 5D iv has over the R is the dual slots, what about action with tracking autofocus? Are there any good comparisons out there? I saw one unscientific comparison between the RP and 6D ii focusing and the 6D ii did much better just trying to capture people walking around. 

You can always stick a $20 LCD viewfinder on the back of the 5d iv and use it in liveview  , so what advantage does the R bring other than being able to use RF lenses? silent shooting, eye tracking, smaller size and weight, anything else important?


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## Shaun Gibbs (Mar 13, 2019)

digitalride said:


> For the people saying the only thing the 5D iv has over the R is the dual slots, what about action with tracking autofocus? Are there any good comparisons out there? I saw one unscientific comparison between the RP and 6D ii focusing and the 6D ii did much better just trying to capture people walking around.
> 
> You can always stick a $20 LCD viewfinder on the back of the 5d iv and use it in liveview  , so what advantage does the R bring other than being able to use RF lenses? silent shooting, eye tracking, smaller size and weight, anything else important?



Plus USB C charging in body and on the vertical grip. FV mode, metering on focus point in Evaluative metering mode, control ring adapter, filter adapters...


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## jhpeterson (Mar 13, 2019)

riker said:


> The thing is 5d4's weather sealing and AF is pretty good too. You need really extreme conditions regarding those not to be sufficient. You will face the framerate limitation much earlier. Also not much difference in battery life when u have the grip on the 5d4 with 2 batteries.


As a yachting photographer, I spend a lot of time on the water, most of it being salt. The idea of a grip means only more places where water comes in and are prone to corrosion. (As I recall from film days with the EOS 1 models and their PB-1 and PB-2 boosters.)
Based on my experience, where I've had two cameras go down in one day, anything but a 1D is taking too many chances.


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## slclick (Mar 13, 2019)

digitalride said:


> For the people saying the only thing the 5D iv has over the R is the dual slots, what about action with tracking autofocus? Are there any good comparisons out there? I saw one unscientific comparison between the RP and 6D ii focusing and the 6D ii did much better just trying to capture people walking around.
> 
> You can always stick a $20 LCD viewfinder on the back of the 5d iv and use it in liveview  , so what advantage does the R bring other than being able to use RF lenses? silent shooting, eye tracking, smaller size and weight, anything else important?


I don't think anyone worth paying a modicum of attention towards is saying that. The 5D4 is so much more of a complete camera body in a multitude of form and functions.


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## riker (Mar 13, 2019)

jhpeterson said:


> As a yachting photographer, I spend a lot of time on the water, most of it being salt. The idea of a grip means only more places where water comes in and are prone to corrosion. (As I recall from film days with the EOS 1 models and their PB-1 and PB-2 boosters.)
> Based on my experience, where I've had two cameras go down in one day, anything but a 1D is taking too many chances.


As I said, extreme conditions. As a dive instructor, I'm happy to agree with you that working in/on/around the sea is easily considered extreme. Salt water kills without mercy.


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## Ozarker (Mar 13, 2019)

digitalride said:


> For the people saying the only thing the 5D iv has over the R is the dual slots, what about action with tracking autofocus? Are there any good comparisons out there? I saw one unscientific comparison between the RP and 6D ii focusing and the 6D ii did much better just trying to capture people walking around.
> 
> You can always stick a $20 LCD viewfinder on the back of the 5d iv and use it in liveview  , so what advantage does the R bring other than being able to use RF lenses? silent shooting, eye tracking, smaller size and weight, anything else important?


Those people probably have neither camera.


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## pj1974 (Mar 13, 2019)

CandySpan said:


> Have you actually used the current EOS R? The only thing the 5D IV has over it are the dual card slots. Everything else is better on the R, and I love my 5D IV. It’s highly unlikely to have a faster frame rate. For one it will have high MP, so it will be something currently unthinkable. Two, I believe 8 fps is plenty for most things, including bird photography and sports, so they’ll likely differentiate it a bit from the EOS R which is a value, and hold the frames back a bit.



Yes, I have used the current EOS R as I have the 5DIV. I have also used many other cameras, both from Canon and other brands - FF, APS-C and mirrorless. So I have a wide camera experience base which I base my comparisons and preferences from. 

There are many other people who agree with me that the 5DIV has more over the EOS R than just dual card slots. Here are a few:
- the 5DIV's actual AF tracking for moving objects is superior to the EOS R in many scenarios,
- the 5DIV has higher effective FPS,
- the 5DIV has better ergonomics for many people,
- the 5DIV has vastly better battery life, and
- the 5DIV has less banding in still images for certain settings.

I really quite like the EOS R's EVF. For certain applications I prefer an EVF, for other situations, I prefer an OVF.

There are some aspects I quite like about the EOS R, but it's not the camera for me. (Fine if it's the camera for you). Horses for courses, CandySpan. 

In time Canon will make a FF Mirrorless model that's right for me. The EOS R and EOS RP are not those models yet.


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## bhf3737 (Mar 13, 2019)

pj1974 said:


> Yes, I have used the current EOS R as I have the 5DIV. I have also used many other cameras, both from Canon and other brands - FF, APS-C and mirrorless. So I have a wide camera experience base which I base my comparisons and preferences from.
> 
> There are many other people who agree with me that the 5DIV has more over the EOS R than just dual card slots. Here are a few:
> 
> ...


Both 5D4 and EOS-R take pictures of comparable quality. Each of the 5D4 or EOS-R has merits of its own. 

EOS-R can accurately focus in low and back-lit situations upto -6ev.
EOS-R has focus points covering %88 of the screen, upto very close to the edge.
EOS-R doesn't need lens calibration.
EOS-R works with RF lenses that have control ring, and CPL/ND adapters for EF lenses.
EOS-R has better video spec than 5D4.
EOS-R has quite capable and configurable EVF and can show lots of info in it, such as histogram and focus distance.
EOS-R has silent shutter (currently for single shot only).
EOS-R can shoot with RF, EF and EF-S lenses.

Neither is better nor worse than the other. 
Although different they are both very capable cameras for their proper use-cases.


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## pj1974 (Mar 13, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> Both 5D4 and EOS-R take pictures of comparable quality. Each of the 5D4 or EOS-R has merits of its own.
> 
> EOS-R can accurately focus in low and back-lit situations upto -6ev.
> EOS-R has focus points covering %88 of the screen, upto very close to the edge.
> ...



I never said 5D4 was better or worse than EOS R. I was correctly pointing out that there are certain features the 5D4 had over the EOS R that certain photographers value. So some of your points above are valid, others are not (e.g. in Live view, 5D4 also uses DPAF, so it is very similar to the EOS R's AF / covering around 80% of the screen, needs no lens calibration, etc. 

For me, the EOS R is not the Canon FF mirrorless camera, but a future model might be. The 5D4 works better for me than the EOS R. For other photographers, the EOS R might work better. As I wrote in my previous post, "horses for courses".

Be happy...  The present AND the future are good for photographers, like me, who enjoy photography!

Paul


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 13, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> Both 5D4 and EOS-R take pictures of comparable quality. Each of the 5D4 or EOS-R has merits of its own.
> 
> EOS-R can accurately focus in low and back-lit situations upto -6ev.
> _But only if the subject is static and doesn't move much....and the AF takes a while to get a lock..._
> ...


I think for slow moving / stationary targets with slim DOF, the Rf camera bodies have a slim advantage over the EF bodies. But the Ef bodies have a huge advantage with high frame rate fast moving targets. For me, the Rf cameras are am immature product that show an interesting technology that will be amazing in a few generations. Maybe by then Canon will get the Rf CPL and ND ef to Rf adapters to market too...


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 13, 2019)

I was at a football match last week Norwich vs Swansea at the Norwich city stadium. 22000 supporters and the event was covered by Sky sports. I looked over the press stills coverage for the event. 6 photographers, 2 on Nikon, 4 on Canon...none were using mirrorless cameras. I saw 70-200.2.8 / 400.2.8 / 200-400.f4 lenses....and no mirror less cameras at all. 
So yes there's an Rf revolution coming...but not at the top tier pro end of the market. The technology just isn't there.


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## SecureGSM (Mar 13, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> I was at a football match last week Norwich vs Swansea at the Norwich city stadium. 22000 supporters and the event was covered by Sky sports. I looked over the press stills coverage for the event. 6 photographers, 2 on Nikon, 4 on Canon...none were using mirrorless cameras. I saw 70-200.2.8 / 400.2.8 / 200-400.f4 lenses....and no mirror less cameras at all.
> So yes there's an Rf revolution coming...but not at the top tier pro end of the market. The technology just isn't there.



rehouse the A9 into the 1DX II body, add Canon menus, add EF mount and watch them coming and lining up.


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## Del Paso (Mar 13, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> rehouse the A9 into the 1DX II body, add Canon menus, add EF mount and watch them coming and lining up.


And I would buy a Nikon!
Don't want any Sony in a Canon, certainly not A 9 parts.


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## SecureGSM (Mar 13, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> And I would buy a Nikon!
> Don't want any Sony in a Canon, certainly not A 9 parts.


i forgot to through the Canon reliability into the mix. No takers still ?


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## scyrene (Mar 13, 2019)

Funny how no matter what is rumoured as the next Canon camera, a tonne of people moan that it's wrong, it's not what they should be doing, that THEIR needs should be met first  You know, things are allowed to exist that you don't personally want?


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 13, 2019)

scyrene said:


> Funny how no matter what is rumoured as the next Canon camera, a tonne of people moan that it's wrong, it's not what they should be doing, that THEIR needs should be met first  You know, things are allowed to exist that you don't personally want?



Everyone has an opinion and I have no problem with others expressing it. It's a discussion board. Mine isn't more valid than others. 

I understand their frustration. Most of photographers would never need more than 24-30 mpx. I print huge print often and I never wish I have more mpx or crop more. It add more storage problem, disrupt workflow, and not catering to the mass.

Of course things are allow to exist, but Canon should prioritize it according to what market demand and have this high mpx come out later when 1DX, 5D equivalent model are done.


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## Del Paso (Mar 13, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Everyone has an opinion and I have no problem with others expressing it. It's a discussion board. Mine isn't more valid than others.
> 
> I understand their frustration. Most of photographers would never need more than 24-30 mpx. I print huge print often and I never wish I have more mpx or crop more. It add more storage problem, disrupt workflow, and not catering to the mass.
> 
> Of course things are allow to exist, but Canon should prioritize it according to what market demand and have this high mpx come out later when 1DX, 5D equivalent model are done.


Your opinion, but not mine.
I'm waiting for a hi-resolution EOS R, for macro, landscapes and vintage lenses.
Are you sure to know what the market wants, and not just turning your wishes into an invented reality????


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 13, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Your opinion, but not mine.
> I'm waiting for a hi-resolution EOS R, for macro, landscapes and vintage lenses.
> Are you sure to know what the market wants, and not just turning your wishes into an invented reality????



Don't take my words for it. Look at all the other peoples are saying previously and what Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony FF camera has produce thus far. It's all under 50 mpx. They have more market data than me.

I'm sure there are few photographers that want a high mpx camera, but it's a specialist camera.

Who isn't a landscape photographers nowaday. I can't imagine bracketing 70 mpx images. If I shoot macro, I prefer focus bracketing more.

But you are right. It's only my opinion. I never claim it's yours whoever you are.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 13, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> rehouse the A9 into the 1DX II body, add Canon menus, add EF mount and watch them coming and lining up.


Yes and that's why Pro sports photographers are flocking to Sony...._NOT_


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## SecureGSM (Mar 14, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Yes and that's why Pro sports photographers are flocking to Sony...._NOT_


that was a joke, as you would appreciate. pro photographers are not flocking to Sony , correct.


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## Pape (Mar 16, 2019)

This recording rig comes with 8K sport R camera too


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## uri.raz (Mar 17, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> But I tend to like the size of the CF cards better for handling, plus the contacts not being as exposed and fragile as the SD cards.



I had a CF pin bent in my 5Dmk3, had to be sent to a lab for fixes. Had pins bent in a CF 'thumb reader', eventually threw it. Never had any issues with the "fragile" contacts of SD cards.

I'd rather have dual UHS-II slots over CF.


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## BillB (Mar 17, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Everyone has an opinion and I have no problem with others expressing it. It's a discussion board. Mine isn't more valid than others.
> 
> I understand their frustration. Most of photographers would never need more than 24-30 mpx. I print huge print often and I never wish I have more mpx or crop more. It add more storage problem, disrupt workflow, and not catering to the mass.
> 
> Of course things are allow to exist, but Canon should prioritize it according to what market demand and have this high mpx come out later when 1DX, 5D equivalent model are done.


It isn't just about marketing. It is also a question of which camera specs fit with a mirrorless design at this point in mirrorless development. Part of the question is whether a mirrorless design can match or exceed 1D or 5D autofocus capabilities, or whether that is going to take a while to happen. Then there is also the question of lens availability. A wide range of available lenses may be more important for the admittedly larger1D and 5D markets.


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 17, 2019)

BillB said:


> It isn't just about marketing. It is also a question of which camera specs fit with a mirrorless design at this point in mirrorless development. Part of the question is whether a mirrorless design can match or exceed 1D or 5D autofocus capabilities, or whether that is going to take a while to happen. Then there is also the question of lens availability. A wide range of available lenses may be more important for the admittedly larger1D and 5D markets.



Canon is stated to release the trinity lenses 2.8 later this year, 2-3 85 1.2 along with great adapters they already has that perform great with EF lenses. That's more than enough for most photographers need.

Beside the eyeAF that need improvement, the AF is as good or better than my 5D IV just slower FPS.

Canon has all the tech and lenses needed for 5D equivalent model 30-40 mpx, but they choose to wait to release that model because such a thing would cannibalize their DSLR sales.

They want a slow and graduate death to DSLR that's why they kept saying EOS R is a back up. If they put dual card slot into EOS R at $2300, it would completely kill out 5D IV sales that's going for similar price without alot of the benefits of EOS R (articulate LCD, EVF, eyeAF, etc).


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## epiieq1 (Mar 17, 2019)

I honestly just want a dev announcement of some sort. I know why they don't (so a rival can't one-up) but I'm hitting the point of needing a new body. I'd really like to stay with Canon, but I'm also hitting the question of - why should I be brand loyal (other than cost to change)? The CPS Platinum loaner program cost me so much in shipping that I would've been better off going with BorrowLenses or Lens Rentals for the same duration. I Just want to know that it's worth waiting because I don't feel the 5D4 and EOS R are worth upgrading to with what's supposed to be the big release coming, and while I can play the waiting game, I'd rather know before wedding and portrait season hits if I should stick it out, or admit that Canon and I aren't as good a fit as we once were.


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## uri.raz (Mar 18, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> Canon is stated to release the trinity lenses 2.8 later this year, 2-3 85 1.2 along with great adapters they already has that perform great with EF lenses. That's more than enough for most photographers need.



The trinity of f/2.8 zoom lenses would do it for me. The rest I would be happy to use with an adapter, until an RF version is released.



bokehmon22 said:


> Canon has all the tech and lenses needed for 5D equivalent model 30-40 mpx, but they choose to wait to release that model because such a thing would cannibalize their DSLR sales.
> 
> They want a slow and graduate death to DSLR that's why they kept saying EOS R is a back up. If they put dual card slot into EOS R at $2300, it would completely kill out 5D IV sales that's going for similar price without alot of the benefits of EOS R (articulate LCD, EVF, eyeAF, etc).



Photographers with two bodies are, AFAIK, a minority. E.g. I have one 5D mark III camera, and have no interest in owning a 2nd camera.

Why would Canon prefer I upgrade to 5D mark V when it comes out, and switch to RF later on, rather then switch at the earliest availability of a dual slot EOS R + trinity zoom lenses?


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 18, 2019)

uri.raz said:


> The trinity of f/2.8 zoom lenses would do it for me. The rest I would be happy to use with an adapter, until an RF version is released.



For most people, it is. I agree. Canon adapters are fantastic and work perfectly with all my lenses.



uri.raz said:


> Photographers with two bodies are, AFAIK, a minority. E.g. I have one 5D mark III camera, and have no interest in owning a 2nd camera.
> 
> Why would Canon prefer I upgrade to 5D mark V when it comes out, and switch to RF later on, rather then switch at the earliest availability of a dual slot EOS R + trinity zoom lenses?



To capture more sales.

Some people need dual card slots. They can buy 5D IV now when there are great sales and when the EOS R II/EOS 5R finally arrive next year, they can upgrade again.

OR they can buy EOS R now, and upgrade to EOS R II/EOS 5R when dual card slot with IBIS, newer sensor, etc version come out.


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## deleteme (Mar 18, 2019)

epiieq1 said:


> I honestly just want a dev announcement of some sort. I know why they don't (so a rival can't one-up) but I'm hitting the point of needing a new body. I'd really like to stay with Canon, but I'm also hitting the question of - why should I be brand loyal (other than cost to change)? The CPS Platinum loaner program cost me so much in shipping that I would've been better off going with BorrowLenses or Lens Rentals for the same duration. I Just want to know that it's worth waiting because I don't feel the 5D4 and EOS R are worth upgrading to with what's supposed to be the big release coming, and while I can play the waiting game, I'd rather know before wedding and portrait season hits if I should stick it out, or admit that Canon and I aren't as good a fit as we once were.


Wedding season is almost upon us and changing systems at this moment would be a risky move.
I suggest transitioning to a new system the way they recommend retirees choose to re-locate: Rent.

Rent for a month or so and see if you like the neighborhood. Find out whether the hospitals are any good, the restaurants are the sort you like and the entertainment available is to your taste. Cameras are the same way. It takes time to decide if you are in love or were you just deceived by a particularly curvaceous specification and the shrill voice of operation makes you crazy.

IMO we often take the gifts of our current situation for granted and realize their strengths by their absence.


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## uri.raz (Mar 19, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> To capture more sales.
> 
> Some people need dual card slots. They can buy 5D IV now when there are great sales and when the EOS R II/EOS 5R finally arrive next year, they can upgrade again.



You assume there are enough people who would upgrade cameras every year.

Personally, I prefer to wait to buy either at 2020, as the RF lenses I want would be released sometime this year, then I want to wait for reviews and price to drop, which means till 2020. The Canon 5D mark V might be released on 2020, but a 5D class RF camera might not.

So I'd rather upgrade my EF 16-35mm f/2.8L mark II to mark III this year, and wait for 2020 to decide whether I want to switch to RF in 2020, or buy a 5DmkV and switch to RF a couple of years later.


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 19, 2019)

uri.raz said:


> Personally, I prefer to wait to buy either at 2020, as the RF lenses I want would be released sometime this year, then I want to wait for reviews and price to drop, which means till 2020. The Canon 5D mark V might be released on 2020, but a 5D class RF camera might not.
> 
> So I'd rather upgrade my EF 16-35mm f/2.8L mark II to mark III this year, and wait for 2020 to decide whether I want to switch to RF in 2020, or buy a 5DmkV and switch to RF a couple of years later.



I agree. Waiting until 2020 is the best approach if you are waiting to upgrade to FF mirror less. There are certain tech that I prioritize will be more mature like the EVF. You will able to fully assess the competing offerings from body to lenses.

That's a good sensible approach to upgrade gears. It definitely come down to priority and personal preference.

While the Canon RF lenses are impressive, but none of it really appeal to me and they are expensive. I have no problem using third party lenses. I only use 70-200 2.8 II during the ceremony so being a little more compact while being much much more expensive isn't a great value to me.

I have no problem using adapted lenses or using third party native lenses that provide great value to me.

My current gears and lenses isn't what limiting my creativity. I'm only upgrading my camera body because it will make things much easier for me - eyeAF, IBIS (hand held up to 4 secs), EVF, no microAF adjustment.

I'm leaning toward a $2500 Panasonic S1 with free battery grip and battery that has all the features I want (great 5.76 million dot EVF, ergonomic, IBIS, better sensor, dual card slot) and use adapter for adapted glass while waiting FF mirror less manufacturers to duke it out. Panasonic S1 with my Sigma EF lenses will be enough for all my photographic needs. I would only upgrade if a major advancement like global shutter with BSI sensor. Even upgrading to it, the cost of renting Panasonic S1 is minuscule for me.

I'm traveling to alot of places this year that's consider once in a lifetime visit so upgrading to a more capable camera such as S1 definitely make sense for me rather than waiting until 2020.


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## epiieq1 (Mar 19, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> Wedding season is almost upon us and changing systems at this moment would be a risky move.
> I suggest transitioning to a new system the way they recommend retirees choose to re-locate: Rent.
> 
> Rent for a month or so and see if you like the neighborhood. Find out whether the hospitals are any good, the restaurants are the sort you like and the entertainment available is to your taste. Cameras are the same way. It takes time to decide if you are in love or were you just deceived by a particularly curvaceous specification and the shrill voice of operation makes you crazy.
> ...



I'm actually in the process of renting an EOS R with 28-70, and an A9 with 24-70GM and 70-200GM over back to back weeks. While it's not cheap, I've also got a couple of personal shoots lined up to help me see how both may work for what I need in the interim. I 100% agree switching just before wedding season is risky, and I also want to make sure that anything I do look to invest in will work as I hope it will.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 22, 2019)

Equinox said:


> An EOS R version of the 5Ds / 5Dsr line aimed at Landscape photographers sporting increased resolution,



Well, classic landscape photography often works with a huge DoF, with apertures numbers of f=14 and more. But a 35mm sensor camera with such small pixels will deliver optimum sharpness at apertures below f=5.6 I guess, because of diffraction blur. If wanted to really shoot landscape with such a high resolution I always would change to medium format - I mean real medium format with 4.5cm x 6cm minimum, not the tiny sensors in the Hassi X1D / Fuji GFX 50 sort of cameras.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 22, 2019)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Choosing a smaller resolution means that your camera computes a smaller photo out of the bigger one. That's like shrinking the resolution in Photoshop. The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo. That's why the Sony A7SII with its 12 megapixels beats other cameras even if you shrink their images to 12 megapixels.


With a high resolution sensor a camera would need a real pixel binning feature, i.e. a mode that combines clusters of smaller pixels to one bigger virtual pixel on-sensor. If Canon would implement such a feature I would seriously consider buying such a high MP monster, because it would be able to combine both worlds - extremely high resolution if you want it and great low-light performance if you shoot in dark settings. But I don't think Canon will offer such a feature. That would require some substantial additions in the sensor hardware and may get in conflict with the DP AF system (not sure about that).


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## Michael Clark (Mar 23, 2019)

rrcphoto said:


> maybe not. Canon will be doing the 1DX Mark III, that's probably good enough for this go around. 2012Q2 would be probably too late for the Olympics, it would have to come out in around 2012Q1 at the latest and to be honest.. that's just not going to happen.



2012 Q2 was _just_ in time for the 2012 Olympics in London.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 24, 2019)

Ladislav said:


> Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.
> 
> https://www.atik-cameras.com/news/binnning-the-differences-between-cmos-and-ccd/
> 
> If you have CMOS with one large pixel instead of 4 small binned pixels you can look at it as if you used CCD binning from that article. Readout is simply better and it still allows doing SW processing on top of that.




If you are comparing pixel to pixel you're totally missing the point when one has pixels that are one-half the linear dimensions and one-fourth the area of the other.

Viewing a 22-23 MP image at 100% on a 23" HD monitor is like looking at a piece of a 60"x40" enlargement.

Viewing an 88-90MP image at 100% on the same monitor is like looking at a piece of a 120"x80" enlargement.

Viewing the 88-90M image at 50% gives the same enlargement size as viewing the 22-23MP image at 100%. Both are the same sized piece of a 60"x40" enlargement.

Since noise is random (that's what makes it "noise"), averaging multiple noisy pixels together makes the averaged larger pixel less noisy and reduces the standard deviation between each pixel than the four smaller pixels it replaced.


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## Ladislav (Mar 25, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> If you are comparing pixel to pixel you're totally missing the point when one has pixels that are one-half the linear dimensions and one-fourth the area of the other.
> 
> Viewing a 22-23 MP image at 100% on a 23" HD monitor is like looking at a piece of a 60"x40" enlargement.
> 
> ...



I disagree. You are considering only theoretical properties, not construction limitations.

Possibility of noise is defined by Signal-To-Noise ratio (SNR). SNR affects readout of the pixel. Larger pixels generally have better SNR than smaller ones. That's why FF camera with can achieve higher ISO with less noise than ASPC camera with similar number of pixels.

But let's for now consider that both large and small pixel have same SNR. When you read large pixel, you get read noise X. When you read small pixel, you get read noise X as well (because we are considering same SNR). To create large pixel from small ones, you need to read 4 of them because combining happens on digital representation, not analog => input read noise is 4 times X. Now your digital processor has to work to average that 4X. Since it has in theory 4 times more information, it _can_ produce better result than readout from large pixel.

But that is just theory because large and small pixel does not have same SNR - that is the whole point why we don't have only high megapixel cameras with ability to bin pixels. Using smaller pixels reduces sensitivity and dynamic range. There is also fill factor - not whole area of pixel is photo sensitive. Fill factor means how big area of the pixel really captures the light. Fill factor is dependent on manufacturing technology but again, larger pixel has larger fill factor than smaller one because amount of electronics does not increase with pixel size. There are other technologies like microlenses or back illuminated sensors which improve fill factor significantly but they are much easier to do right on larger pixels.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 25, 2019)

Ladislav said:


> I disagree. You are considering only theoretical properties, not construction limitations.
> 
> Possibility of noise is defined by Signal-To-Noise ratio (SNR). SNR affects readout of the pixel. Larger pixels generally have better SNR than smaller ones. That's why FF camera with can achieve higher ISO with less noise than ASPC camera with similar number of pixels.
> 
> ...



But if both sensors are the same size, there are also _more_ of the smaller pixels than the larger ones. When downsizing the image from the sensor with the higher number of smaller pixels to match the number of pixels of the image from the sensor with lower number of larger pixels, the averaging of the larger sampling reduces the total amount of noise without reducing the total signal, so the SNR goes up.


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## Antono Refa (Mar 27, 2019)

I'm wondering whether the sensor would really be 70MP, it's just 35MP w/ DPAF or 18MP w/ QPAF.


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## koenkooi (Mar 27, 2019)

Antono Refa said:


> I'm wondering whether the sensor would really be 70MP, it's just 35MP w/ DPAF or 18MP w/ QPAF.



Canon has shown 120, 200 and 250MP APS-H sensors already, so it could be 70MP w/ QPAF and QP-RAW would have 240MP.


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