# The Canon EOS RP shipments begin on Wednesday



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 25, 2019)

> The Canon EOS RP was announced 10 days ago and preorders for the new full frame camera have been the best we’ve seen for a Canon camera since the EOS 5D Mark IV.
> We’re told by our exclusive affiliate partner Adorama that all preorders will be fulfilled and that there will be more stock available right away.
> If you order the Canon EOS RP before March 31, 2019, you get the EG-E1 extension grip and the Canon Mount Adapter for free, that is a nearly $200 value.
> *Preorder the Canon EOS RP:*
> ...



Continue reading...


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## HaroldC3 (Feb 25, 2019)

It’ll be interesting to see where the price goes around Xmas time.


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## bbb34 (Feb 25, 2019)

It will go down.


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## Nelu (Feb 25, 2019)

I can hardly wait for real-world reviews from the actual owners, not spec-whiners.
Come on guys, have fun but let us know how it goes!
What is it you like, what you don't, how is it compared to the EOS R? Is it worth the price?
Cheers
Nelu


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## runbei (Feb 25, 2019)

Yes, will somebody please take a bazillion portraits in natural light with the EF 135/2 and 24-105 L and post a link.


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## Trey T (Feb 25, 2019)

EOS RP, the GoPro of FF DSLR/MILC


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 25, 2019)

Trey T said:


> EOS RP, the GoPro of FF DSLR/MILC



I'm not sure how one comes to that sort of conclusion.


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## RayValdez360 (Feb 25, 2019)

Trey T said:


> EOS RP, the GoPro of FF DSLR/MILC


I dont get it?


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## Chaitanya (Feb 25, 2019)

Will for the 24-240mm lens to be released and then buy a used RP for a cheap Travel friendly FF package. As it stands right now that RP is just too crippled(castrated for lack of better description) for video work even with adopted lenses(EF-S).


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## amorse (Feb 25, 2019)

HaroldC3 said:


> It’ll be interesting to see where the price goes around Xmas time.


I actually wonder about that. With the price as low as it is, and it seems like strong pre-orders, I wonder if they'll drop the price at all. Prices get cut to spike purchasing behaviour, but if the purchases don't need spiking (i.e. the cameras are getting bought up as quick as Canon can build them), then there's no reason to cut price. If sales aren't where Canon hoped, or if you see a massive reduction on other new competitors (i.e. a7III, Z6), then maybe we'd see a cut, but the RP starting price is so low compared to the competition that it really stands alone already. I mean, in Canada the RP is $1699 where the Z6 is $2599 and the a7iii is $2599. Cutting $300 off the RP isn't going to pull a buyer off of a Z6 or an a7iii (in my mind anyway). I guess the real question is will Canon cut price to target APS-C users of other manufacturers as the direct competition for the RP - can they cut it to a6400/XT3 prices to strip transitioning users off of Sony/Fuji for instance. Also, if Nikon releases a competing Z5 or entry level FF like the RP that could influence the decision too I guess.

I'd wonder if Canon will just bundle it with a printer and leave the price the same.


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## bluediablo (Feb 25, 2019)

Trey T said:


> EOS RP, the GoPro of FF DSLR/MILC



I plan on duct taping it to my bicycle helmet, so yea...


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## Trey T (Feb 25, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm not sure how one comes to that sort of conclusion.


It's a throw-away FF MILC camera, like any GoPro. Sure, the primary function of the GoPro is capturing video, and the statement was a click-bait, but there are merits to the comparison. I believe the RP was designed as light-weight camera (eg no LCD Panel), subcompact body (eg offered free extension to form compact body), valuable image quality (e.g. FF, competitive res, RAW) for a subset of unique users (YT, backpacking, b-cam, back-up body, etc...). It's the lowest price FF canon ever produced, making their aim toward a "throw-away" camera.


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## Trey T (Feb 25, 2019)

bluediablo said:


> I plan on duct taping it to my bicycle helmet, so yea...


Back in 2008/2009, 5D mark II and 7D were used on feature films and a lot of indi films. Many directors considered them throw-away cameras. "throw-away" cameras means they are phenomenal cameras use for specific tasks - it's what many people want!!!!


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## addola (Feb 25, 2019)

I would buy the Canon EOS RP if Canon offered me a trade-in deal for my Canon 6D. Then again, the RP's battery is so small that I would rather get the EOS R. I would much rather get the EOS R if the price dropped.


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## preppyak (Feb 25, 2019)

amorse said:


> I actually wonder about that. With the price as low as it is, and it seems like strong pre-orders, I wonder if they'll drop the price at all. Prices get cut to spike purchasing behaviour, but if the purchases don't need spiking (i.e. the cameras are getting bought up as quick as Canon can build them), then there's no reason to cut price.


Im really curious what "We’re told...that all preorders will be fulfilled and that there will be more stock available right away" ends up meaning. Does it mean a camera company, for once, actually had full stock right from the get go? Or does it mean pre-orders were weaker than Canon expected?

If its the latter, I wonder if we'd see a firmware update to undo some of the crippling on the video side. Getting back 1080/24 and undoing EF-S lenses being locked off should be solveable on the software side.


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## RayValdez360 (Feb 25, 2019)

Trey T said:


> Back in 2008/2009, 5D mark II and 7D were used on feature films and a lot of indi films. Many directors considered them throw-away cameras. "throw-away" cameras means they are phenomenal cameras use for specific tasks - it's what many people want!!!!


cool some directors with decent budgets considered 1500-3000 throw away great.....


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## ddixon (Feb 25, 2019)

I have a 6D (not v2) and also have an SL2 as a lightweight kit. I see the RP as a full frame SL2 which may replace both cameras for me (I'd keep the 6D as a second body). I've not seen this mentioned anywhere, but the RP/SL2 size and weight are pretty close. Compared to the SL2, the RP height and depth are only 1/10 of an inch more, the width is less than 1/2 an inch more, and the weight is less than 50g more. 

I'm not comparing the RP to the competition. Compared to the *6D* I'm expecting:
Probably a touch better IQ
Better AF (no DPAF on 6D, where I do center point and recompose 100% of the time)
Better video (although I only do casual video on stills cameras; have a separate 4K camcorder)
More resolution
Cleaner 3200-12800 ISO (I shoot these far more than I do <800)
Bonus: uses my SL2 batteries

An RP plus 2-3 lens kit won't be as light as my SL2 setup, but still lighter than a similar 6D kit.

Only $1299 with adapter and grip extender? I ordered one before I slept last Wednesday.

Just as with my 6D, I'll use it most often with my 24-70 f4 IS L and the adapter. I will get an RF standard zoom later once I see the upcoming 24-70 2.8 IS. If it's great enough I'll decide whether the size, weight, and cost is worth it compared to the 24-105.


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## shawnee photographer (Feb 25, 2019)

I'm an R user and see no reason to ever return to traditional dSLRs. My R is smaller, lighter, cheaper, and has as good or better IQ than the 5Div. Plus the AF is amazing, mounted to my Sigma 150-600mm is a dream come true! I think the RP will be a benchmark product, which is exactly what Canon wants it to be. A true gateway FF and mirrorless. I have no need for one but am glad its out there.


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## Trey T (Feb 25, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> cool some directors with decent budgets considered 1500-3000 throw away great.....


yup!


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## Random Orbits (Feb 25, 2019)

shawnee photographer said:


> I'm an R user and see no reason to ever return to traditional dSLRs. My R is smaller, lighter, cheaper, and has as good or better IQ than the 5Div. Plus the AF is amazing, mounted to my Sigma 150-600mm is a dream come true! I think the RP will be a benchmark product, which is exactly what Canon wants it to be. A true gateway FF and mirrorless. I have no need for one but am glad its out there.



I'll have to wait until the R is better than the 5D4 for servo AF. There are no customized AF cases to choose from, the servo AF doesn't track as well and it switches points in a fiddly way, the battery life is worse, and there is no GPS. I was taking pictures of a lego pinewood derby and I got about 350 shots with 10% battery remaining on the R. I would easily get twice the shots with the 5D4, and it was hard to keep the AF point on the cars because of the lag in the viewfinder. I also tend to use GPS while visiting national parks (avoid needing to take pictures of signs periodically for location cues) and still manage to get 700+ shots with GPS on with the 5D4.

Don't get me wrong, the R is a nice camera but the 5D4 is still more versatile. The R does win on off-center one-shot AF (especially useful for portraits), AF point coverage and the tremendous RF lenses. I'd love to switch out the f/2.8 holy trinity for the RF versions, but as long as I have the 5D4, I'll stay with the EF versions. I'm just waiting for 5D4 killer (hopefully the R pro will be it!).


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## Trey T (Feb 25, 2019)

Random Orbits said:


> I'll have to wait until the R is better than the 5D4 for servo AF. There are no customized AF cases to choose from, the servo AF doesn't track as well and it switches points in a fiddly way, the battery life is worse, and there is no GPS. I was taking pictures of a lego pinewood derby and I got about 350 shots with 10% battery remaining on the R. I would easily get twice the shots with the 5D4, and it was hard to keep the AF point on the cars because of the lag in the viewfinder. I also tend to use GPS while visiting national parks (avoid needing to take pictures of signs periodically for location cues) and still manage to get 700+ shots with GPS on with the 5D4.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the R is a nice camera but the 5D4 is still more versatile. The R does win on off-center one-shot AF (especially useful for portraits), AF point coverage and the tremendous RF lenses. I'd love to switch out the f/2.8 holy trinity for the RF versions, but as long as I have the 5D4, I'll stay with the EF versions. I'm just waiting for *5D4 killer* (hopefully the R pro will be it!).


Based on the trend and speculation of additional R camera, there should be one that sits above the 5D.

The EOS R line is designed to cover both FF and crop FOV, as demonstrated by the R and RP, which sits above and below 6D, respectively. Additionally, the R sits right below the 5D and the next one ppl have been speculating will likely sits above 5D and below the 1D. Meaning that it will likely have a 35MP+ FF @ 6fps and 25MP+ crop @ 10-12fps. Price? $3500 to be competitive and protect their 5D IV.


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## Ozarker (Feb 25, 2019)

Trey T said:


> It's a throw-away FF MILC camera, like any GoPro. Sure, the primary function of the GoPro is capturing video, and the statement was a click-bait, but there are merits to the comparison. I believe the RP was designed as light-weight camera (eg no LCD Panel), subcompact body (eg offered free extension to form compact body), valuable image quality (e.g. FF, competitive res, RAW) for a subset of unique users (YT, backpacking, b-cam, back-up body, etc...). It's the lowest price FF canon ever produced, making their aim toward a "throw-away" camera.


True. Any camera priced at $1,299 is a throw away item. Canon is *******.  I regularly just "throw away" gear priced around this. For the average buyer of this camera, it is anything but "throw away".


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## Random Orbits (Feb 25, 2019)

Trey T said:


> Based on the trend and speculation of additional R camera, there should be one that sits above the 5D.
> 
> The EOS R line is designed to cover both FF and crop FOV, as demonstrated by the R and RP, which sits above and below 6D, respectively. Additionally, the R sits right below the 5D and the next one ppl have been speculating will likely sits above 5D and below the 1D. Meaning that it will likely have a 35MP+ FF @ 6fps and 25MP+ crop @ 10-12fps. Price? $3500 to be competitive and protect their 5D IV.



Wasn't the rumor that the pro would be a replacement for the 5DS? Last year, there were rumors of the 5DS replacement (CR2), and I thought there was another rumor than at least 1 DSLR body was killed off at the end of last year. If it is the 5DS successor, then I can see the R pro being the 5DS/R successor. Then I'd expect it to surpass the specs of the 5DS, which would include an increase in resolution (>50MP), and a higher frame rate (5FPS, but I'd like to see it at 8 or higher).

However, the January 2019 interview of Canon execs by the Imaging Resource, the question of pro-level camera was asked:

_Particularly interesting is Mizoguchi-san's mention of a coming pro-level model. In the back-and-forth, I asked him specifically if "pro-level" meant AF performance at the level of a 1D X Mark II, and he replied that that is what they mean by "pro-level": no-excuses levels of performance._

If this is true, will the pro level camera be an A9 competitor instead of the A7R3? I have no idea what else would be considered "no excuses levels of performance" -- is IQ and higher MP not "pro"? Or perhaps, there's a conflation of what pro means by CR and Canon. Maybe a high resolution R camera will be first followed by a 1Dx-type R camera. Interesting times for certain. I don't know what Canon is going to do in the next year. I'd love to know, but once something better than 5D4 is introduced, by EF holy trinity and 5D4 will be on the block. Having a mix of EF and RF lenses is OK, but having a mix of both EOS and EOS R bodies and EF and RF lenses makes it less flexible. The best scenario is having EOS R bodies only with a mix of EF/RF glass.


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## Phoenix 1000 (Feb 25, 2019)

As long as an electronic viewfinder is not as good as the wonderful viewfinder on my 5D4, I will keep my 5D4 and my 5D3 and my three EF f2/8 zooms. And I still don't understand, why the mirrorless cameras should be "lighter" than a DSLR. What you save on weight by the elimination of the mirror incl. it's mechanical parts you have to add on batteries in order to get at least some endurance. Where is the progress??? Lot's of snow in the electronic viewfinder and an unbelievable high power consumption?. Does not sound professional at all. Will be interesting to see, how many years we have to wait for a true 5D4 killer ...


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## 1Zach1 (Feb 26, 2019)

If anyone needs me, I’ll just be sitting here hitting F5 for the next 3 days.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Feb 26, 2019)

Nelu said:


> I can hardly wait for real-world reviews from the actual owners, not spec-whiners.
> Come on guys, have fun but let us know how it goes!
> What is it you like, what you don't, how is it compared to the EOS R? Is it worth the price?
> Cheers
> Nelu


 There are already reviews being posted online due to pre-sale models being loaned. The few photos I've seen and feedback are very good. Sounds like the build quality feels good too from what I read.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Feb 26, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'm not sure how one comes to that sort of conclusion.


Agreed, and some RP samples I just saw posted by a borrower who tried one made gopro images look like nothing burgers. I think this camera will serve a lot of people well.


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## Ozarker (Feb 26, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> cool some directors with decent budgets considered 1500-3000 throw away great.....


Throw away in the sense of not risking a far more expensive piece of equipment to destruction for a scene, and with an idea towards profit. So hardly "throw away".


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## transpo1 (Feb 26, 2019)

Trey T said:


> Back in 2008/2009, 5D mark II and 7D were used on feature films and a lot of indi films. Many directors considered them throw-away cameras. "throw-away" cameras means they are phenomenal cameras use for specific tasks - it's what many people want!!!!



Except that in 2019, no one will use the RP on a feature film because of the ridiculous crop factor and the fact that it doesn’t shoot 24p in 1080. 

The Canon 5D II and 7D were AHEAD of their time with regards to video, not behind. 

I’m very interested in this new line of cameras, but— the RP is a FF version of the EOS-M50, just meant to get people into the system fast and cheap- and for many budding photographers, that will work. But not for video folks.


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## degos (Feb 26, 2019)

Trey T said:


> It's a throw-away FF MILC camera, like any GoPro.



What? Are you actually on the same planet as the rest of us?

At the UK retail price of £1,399. At the average UK salary for someone in their 30s, £26,500, and after deducting tax and National Insurance they'd need to work for about 128 hours to buy this camera. 3.5 weeks of work just for this camera.

Canon want to maintain 'margin' on full-frame. They're not going to provide any bargains even if they had the potential.

Meanwhile some variant of the Sony A7 is retailing for £699 at Wex.


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## bergstrom (Feb 26, 2019)

Its also interesting when reviewers and youtubers warn NOT to get it, but people still do?


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## mb66energy (Feb 26, 2019)

I thought it were still available based on those many reviews / statements I have seen / read ...

Now I am really interested in real reviews and the first firmware upgrade which includes the missing video modes.

But by the way: In germany the camera is 1500 EUR with standard adapter and the EOS R is 2250 EUR with adapter. Under "german conditions" the difference isn't that vast (if you have the money) and if you plan to use the control ring adapter the relative price difference is 2450/1700 EUR which is ~40% (more for the EOS R). And looking at digital rev the EOS R is just 1950 EUR.


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## GMCPhotographics (Feb 26, 2019)

degos said:


> What? Are you actually on the same planet as the rest of us?
> 
> At the UK retail price of £1,399. At the average UK salary for someone in their 30s, £26,500, and after deducting tax and National Insurance they'd need to work for about 128 hours to buy this camera. 3.5 weeks of work just for this camera.
> 
> ...



Once uk supply has stabilised (ie each shop has the units it's purchased from Canon available on their shelf) then the price will drop substantially. If a shop orders 50 on release...but only gets 5...they will sell at RRP. Once they have the other 45 from back order...and every customer who wants one in the first month has one...then the price will drop dramatically...we'll see price wars and all sorts of offers.
The UK RRP pricing is designed to allow shops to discount heavily. But when there is low supply and high demand....then there aren't any discounts and everyone has to pay top £££ and wait for supply.
My advice is to wait 6 months, or wait for the first firmware release. Then get one. Sure you won't have the "I was first in my town" boasting...but you'll save yourself a ton of cash and let all the other guys trail blaze. Personally I don't buy new releases any more. When I bought my 5DII...I had to wait a month before I could use it with Adobe Lightroom.

As I said before....it's a lot of money for what is essentially a 6DmkII with the mirror box taken away. Canon are making a big thing of recycling old tech. Sure there's a lot of R&D that's gone into the Rf mount and software AF. But it's still early days...and we've had nothing new from Canon sensor wise since the 5D4.


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## Pape (Feb 26, 2019)

I dont know why canon would need drop price ? They can sell it this price all year and before christmas they can release firmware update what drop little veil from nerfed features and make inflation correction to price.Every year same process and they can sell it 5 year.


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## Ozarker (Feb 26, 2019)

GMCPhotographics said:


> As I said before....it's a lot of money for what is essentially a 6DmkII with the mirror box taken away. Canon are making a big thing of recycling old tech. Sure there's a lot of R&D that's gone into the Rf mount and software AF. But it's still early days...and we've had nothing new from Canon sensor wise since the 5D4.



While it is true that one could go get a 6D Mark II, the RP much smaller, can use the RF line of lenses, and has far more focus points spread over a much larger area. The 6D Mark II will never do that. So there are big enough differences, I think. At least for me. So I think there is a big difference between the two products. Of course the sensors are the same, but the sensor is good. The focus peaking is also a big deal for me if it works well. I have a lot of manual focus lenses and poor eyesight.  So, for me, it is much more than just a 6D Mark II sans mirror box. It is a very different animal. (The small size is a drawback for me.)


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## maadfw (Feb 26, 2019)

CR Guy,

I ordered via Adorama using your link but got a notice saying my item is on back order for both EOS RP and the grip with only the adapter is available. I was hoping to get my hands on EOS RP at least. Your post says RP should be available for both pre-orders and beyond. Any idea? FWIW, I did my pre order last weekend (2-3 days back).

-maadfw


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## Trey T (Feb 26, 2019)

bergstrom said:


> Its also interesting when reviewers and youtubers warn NOT to get it, but people still do?


That's normal. Many people tend to make good choices based on their own research.


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## Trey T (Feb 26, 2019)

transpo1 said:


> Except that in 2019, no one will use the RP on a feature film because of the ridiculous crop factor and the fact that it doesn’t shoot 24p in 1080.
> 
> The Canon 5D II and 7D were AHEAD of their time with regards to video, not behind.
> 
> I’m very interested in this new line of cameras, but— the RP is a FF version of the EOS-M50, just meant to get people into the system *fast and cheap*- and for many budding photographers, that will work. But not for video folks.


Yup!!


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## Chavim (Feb 26, 2019)

maadfw said:


> CR Guy,
> 
> I ordered via Adorama using your link but got a notice saying my item is on back order for both EOS RP and the grip with only the adapter is available. I was hoping to get my hands on EOS RP at least. Your post says RP should be available for both pre-orders and beyond. Any idea? FWIW, I did my pre order last weekend (2-3 days back).
> 
> -maadfw



Don't worry, that's normal. That's how pre-orders work, they will fulfill on a first come first serve basis starting tomorrow.


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## maadfw (Feb 26, 2019)

Thank you, my first time pre-ordering it and it shows! 

-maadfw


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## Random Orbits (Feb 26, 2019)

Phoenix 1000 said:


> As long as an electronic viewfinder is not as good as the wonderful viewfinder on my 5D4, I will keep my 5D4 and my 5D3 and my three EF f2/8 zooms. And I still don't understand, why the mirrorless cameras should be "lighter" than a DSLR. What you save on weight by the elimination of the mirror incl. it's mechanical parts you have to add on batteries in order to get at least some endurance. Where is the progress??? Lot's of snow in the electronic viewfinder and an unbelievable high power consumption?. Does not sound professional at all. Will be interesting to see, how many years we have to wait for a true 5D4 killer ...



The progress is in the lenses. The shorter flange distance makes lenses like the RF 28-70 f/2 and RF 50 f/1.2 possible.


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## Phoenix 1000 (Feb 26, 2019)

Random Orbits said:


> The progress is in the lenses. The shorter flange distance makes lenses like the RF 28-70 f/2 and RF 50 f/1.2 possible.



I agree and I believe, that the lenses are excellent and yes, the shorter distance to the sensor is a huge advantage. But for me, that does not compensate the bad image of an electronic viewfinder. I checked it on a Sony A7R III at my local dealer last weekend. The Sony is for sure a very good mirrorless cam, but the viewfinder is far from comparable to the one on my 5D4 or 5D3, not even close. It shakes, when you turn the camera a little bit faster, you have anti-aliasing on diagonal lines and that at bright day light in the shop! It must be horrible at low light conditions, even unusable, I guess. No, as long as there is no progress in technology to build an electronic viewfinder comparable to the great view of a professional DSLR, I stay with my DSLR and my EF lenses and loose the advantage of a little bit more light intensity on the lenses. f2/8 isn't to bad for my EF zoom lenses anyway. But maybe OLED technology will make some huge steps forward in the near future. Let's wait and see.


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## RedPixels (Feb 26, 2019)

bergstrom said:


> Its also interesting when reviewers and youtubers warn NOT to get it, but people still do?



Let's be honest, most of those youtubers were putting up thumbnails of pouty sadfaces and facepalms because they knew a negative review would garner them more views plus they add affiliate links in their comments to buy the same camera they spent 10 minutes bashing. I think we are all in agreement that the bashing comes from a "me me me" stand point where just because the camera doesn't tick off every feature for the youtuber doesn't automatically make it DoA. The RP is definitely aimed at a specific segment (Rebel users who want to upgrade to FF mirrorless, average person off the street who is looking for a mirrorless camera) and this camera will sell like hotcakes because it is aimed at a specific segment.


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## Trey T (Feb 27, 2019)

Phoenix 1000 said:


> I agree and I believe, that the lenses are excellent and yes, the shorter distance to the sensor is a huge advantage.* But for me, that does not compensate the bad image of an electronic viewfinder.* I checked it on a Sony A7R III at my local dealer last weekend. The Sony is for sure a very good mirrorless cam, but the viewfinder is far from comparable to the one on my 5D4 or 5D3, not even close. It shakes, when you turn the camera a little bit faster, you have anti-aliasing on diagonal lines and that at bright day light in the shop! It must be horrible at low light conditions, even unusable, I guess. No, as long as there is no progress in technology to build an electronic viewfinder comparable to the great view of a professional DSLR, I stay with my DSLR and my EF lenses and loose the advantage of a little bit more light intensity on the lenses. f2/8 isn't to bad for my EF zoom lenses anyway. But maybe OLED technology will make some huge steps forward in the near future. Let's wait and see.


When you used your 5D, what were some objectives (e.g. focus, exposure, FOV, etc...) of the viewfinder?


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## neto velasco (Feb 27, 2019)

I got this camera on pre order last week and they sent me an email saying some of the products were back ordered which I understand because of the pre-order. Yesterday night (Tuesday 26) got an email saying my order has shipped so I got excited but they only sent the ef-rf adapter... Ups delivered just that this morning, I mean its fine but they could have waited to ship all at once no problem, cant really use that adapter without the camera. So hopefully yes they have enough stock to send everything else today (Wednesday, 27)


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## Phoenix 1000 (Feb 27, 2019)

Trey T said:


> When you used your 5D, what were some objectives (e.g. focus, exposure, FOV, etc...) of the viewfinder?


Difficult to put in words. I still remember when I bought my 5D3 and I first looked through the viewfinder of the camera in the shop. I was impressed. The perfect clarity of what you see. And yes, the FOV, the slight magnification. It enables you to work very precisely with the AF, because you see everything so clear and sharp. The place, where you set the AF focus point is perfectly sharp in the later picture. Even in low light, the viewfinder provides a clear and sharp picture and enables you to precisely position the AF point. The faint light of a star clear in the black sky, no noise from high ISO or flicker. 

My favorite vendor who is very experienced and I trust him very much told me, that you can push up the ISO level just in the EVF increase contrast in low light conditions to facilitate AF setting and the picture will be taken with a lower ISO. But he agreed, that the picture you then see in the EVF is pretty similar to heavy snow fall in a stormy winter night. Maybe this really works, but it's simply not neat. It does not give you this nice feeling of perfect control. 

Well, maybe I have to look, if I can lend a Sony A7R III somewhere and check it out a few days. From what I have heard, the Canon EOS R is far less capable compared to the Sony A7R III. And you can attach all Canon EF lenses to the Sony A7R III using an adapter. He showed me with my much loved EF 11-24mm f/4L. But it looked a little bit strange, because the lens is quite heavy and much bigger than the camera.


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## Trey T (Feb 28, 2019)

Phoenix 1000 said:


> Difficult to put in words. I still remember when I bought my 5D3 and I first looked through the viewfinder of the camera in the shop. I was impressed. The perfect clarity of what you see. And yes, the FOV, the slight magnification. It enables you to work very precisely with* the AF, because you see everything so clear and sharp.* The place, where you set the AF focus point is perfectly sharp in the later picture. Even in low light, the viewfinder provides a clear and sharp picture and enables you to precisely position the AF point. The faint light of a star clear in the black sky, no noise from high ISO or flicker.
> 
> ...


One of the advantage to EVF, utilizing the dual-pixel AF technology, is the potential to confirm focus and exposure w/in the image - it's called Focus Peaking and Zebra Stripes. Now, I don't know if that's featured on the R or RP viewfinder or not, but it's on the liveview. This technology will make things a lot easier for beginners to learn pro photography.

If DSLR generated tons of wedding photogs overnight, I bet this RP and R will make it a lot worse.


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## Pape (Mar 1, 2019)

i wonder is it possible do hdr bracketing and focus stacking simultaneously with rp?


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## Random Orbits (Mar 1, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> I don't know the 5D4 but for instance what scenarios does it work in that the R doesn't?
> 
> The R has 3-4 parameters to adjust to control AF decision-making (you clearly know this, just mentioning for viewers at home). I haven't looked into them yet but it seems to track kid's soccer melees fine even when my boy is in the middle of the crowd, not nearest subject, and deals with him being obscured a second or two, etc. Coming from a 1DsIII it's a night-and-day improvement. but I gather not the case vs. 5D4?



The 5D4 (and at least the 5D3, I don't remember the 5D2) have multiple AF cases (i.e. symbol for ice skating or running/soccer), and each case has different settings for each of the 3-4 parameters. Some allow AF point switching, and some are more sensitive to erratic movement while others will switch focus slower when an object passes in front of the subject. And each of these cases can be customized. So I tend to use the various AF cases as shortcuts to changing all the settings.

So, when I was trying to get the AF point to follow the subject by switching to another AF point, the R wasn't doing it because I had single point AF selected. Reading the manual later revealed that it is one of the few settings that doesn't accommodate auto AF point switching. With the 5D4, I'd just select a different AF use case that had auto switching enabled and wouldn't have to remember the caveats/limitations of multiple selections.

I didn't find auto point selection subject tracking useful on the 5D4 because it was easily fooled for the kids' soccer where there are multiple subjects that the system could lock onto as opposed to a plane/bird in the sky. I was hoping to test it out on the R to track pinewood derby cars coming down the track toward the camera, but I couldn't figure it out while I was there. So I tilted the camera and zoomed to try and get the shot I wanted as the cars approached, but it would be much easier if the camera could track the cars while I focused on maintaining the framing I wanted.


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## flip314 (Mar 1, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> OK, but these sound exactly like the things the R can be adjusted for. The R doesn't give a "nickname" to a set of parameters but I wonder if it does at least have all the same parameters.



I think the point is that 5D IV will let you save multiple sets of parameters so that you don't need to adjust every setting each time you're shooting in a different scenario. You can just quickly choose a different group of settings.


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## Don Haines (Mar 1, 2019)

Random Orbits said:


> The 5D4 (and at least the 5D3, I don't remember the 5D2) have multiple AF cases (i.e. symbol for ice skating or running/soccer), and each case has different settings for each of the 3-4 parameters. Some allow AF point switching, and some are more sensitive to erratic movement while others will switch focus slower when an object passes in front of the subject. And each of these cases can be customized. So I tend to use the various AF cases as shortcuts to changing all the settings.
> 
> So, when I was trying to get the AF point to follow the subject by switching to another AF point, the R wasn't doing it because I had single point AF selected. Reading the manual later revealed that it is one of the few settings that doesn't accommodate auto AF point switching. With the 5D4, I'd just select a different AF use case that had auto switching enabled and wouldn't have to remember the caveats/limitations of multiple selections.
> 
> I didn't find auto point selection subject tracking useful on the 5D4 because it was easily fooled for the kids' soccer where there are multiple subjects that the system could lock onto as opposed to a plane/bird in the sky. I was hoping to test it out on the R to track pinewood derby cars coming down the track toward the camera, but I couldn't figure it out while I was there. So I tilted the camera and zoomed to try and get the shot I wanted as the cars approached, but it would be much easier if the camera could track the cars while I focused on maintaining the framing I wanted.



One of the things that we should expect from face tracking on a mirrorless camera is for the camera to recognize particular faces. On some of the Olys, you can “load” people into the camera memory and the camera can recognize that person.

Can that be done with the R? It would be great to lock onto a person, have them recognized as “buddy”, and track them as they moved in and out of a crowd, or track a bird as it flies through the forest.... or similar. I suspect that when a higher end R comes out that it will be able to, but what about the R?


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## Kit. (Mar 2, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Can that be done with the R? It would be great to lock onto a person, have them recognized as “buddy”, and track them as they moved in and out of a crowd,


I don't think it can be reliably done in real time yet. Especially on a fanless GPU.


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## Random Orbits (Mar 2, 2019)

flip314 said:


> I think the point is that 5D IV will let you save multiple sets of parameters so that you don't need to adjust every setting each time you're shooting in a different scenario. You can just quickly choose a different group of settings.



Exactly!


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## Random Orbits (Mar 2, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> One of the things that we should expect from face tracking on a mirrorless camera is for the camera to recognize particular faces. On some of the Olys, you can “load” people into the camera memory and the camera can recognize that person.
> 
> Can that be done with the R? It would be great to lock onto a person, have them recognized as “buddy”, and track them as they moved in and out of a crowd, or track a bird as it flies through the forest.... or similar. I suspect that when a higher end R comes out that it will be able to, but what about the R?



No, the R doesn't do that. I tend not to use face tracking all that much because when it can't find a face, it defaults toward the center. I then tap on the person (whose head is hidden) and it keeps on wanting to go back to the center.

Face tracking is more useful for more "portrait" settings where the head is a fair fraction of the frame and the face is often looking towards the camera. With my daughter is snow gear playing on her knees in the snow with a hat pulled over her head, it doesn't work very well.


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## Random Orbits (Mar 4, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong but this isn't my experience. When I lose a face, I get a blue rectangle on the same target--the hair/head, the shirt, etc. Now maybe we get the same success ratio, and my standards of "what works for me" are a bit lower than yours :-D
> 
> But you can also tweak 3-4 different factors on the face tracking too, that might get you better success.



Did you try it when the person is partially obstructed by another object or when the subject is smaller in the frame? My daughter was on her hands and knees to build a snowman. I tapped on the her head (her face was not facing the camera), and it gave me a red circle in the region I tapped on. I then half pressed the shutter button and the camera chose to look for points in the center of frame, not in the upper left quadrant where my daughter was. It clearly did not recognize her face because there was no face box. Perhaps it was the size of her relative to the entire frame. What I really don't like is that it starts focusing on the stuff in the center of the frame even though I tried to put the box somewhere else.


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## mangobutter (Mar 5, 2019)

shawnee photographer said:


> I'm an R user and see no reason to ever return to traditional dSLRs. My R is smaller, lighter, cheaper, and has as good or better IQ than the 5Div. Plus the AF is amazing, mounted to my Sigma 150-600mm is a dream come true! I think the RP will be a benchmark product, which is exactly what Canon wants it to be. A true gateway FF and mirrorless. I have no need for one but am glad its out there.



Agreed. Owning the R makes you realize how stupid and compromising that huge mirrorbox space of a DSLR is. Take it from a long time FF DSLR snob. The massive mirror box/flange distance really makes it hard (and costly) to design a lens that performs. It also makes lenses unnecessarily HUGE. As the flange distance gets bigger, the lens gets exponentially larger.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 6, 2019)

mangobutter said:


> It also makes lenses unnecessarily HUGE. As the flange distance gets bigger, the lens gets exponentially larger.


It seems there are some serious gaps in your understanding of lens design (or minimally, in your understanding of the meaning of the word ‘exponentially’).


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 6, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Well not exponentially, but could easily be 4-8x the size. Compare a Leica 35/1.4 with the EF 35/1.4. (I use a Leica 35/1.4 on my R as my main lens now.) The EF is twice as long, and twice as wide and twice as tall making it 8x the volume, and on top of all that it's not even that sharp wide open. (Hilarious coma in the corners.)


Sure, you can cherry pick some examples. So can I...

Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35mm F2 ASPH for Panasonic/Leica MILCs – 102mm (4”) long, weights 720 g (25.4 oz)
Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM for Canon DSLRs – 63 mm (2.5”) long, weighs 335 g (11.8 oz)

The Leica is nearly double the weight, 60% longer, and has 40% more volume (your 8x figure is wrong, unless you’re talking about the boxes the lenses come in...lenses aren’t cubes) and on top of all that it doesn’t even have IS.

And 35mm is a focal length where a shorter flange distance _can_ have a big impact (unlike telephoto designs, for example).


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## Kit. (Mar 6, 2019)

mangobutter said:


> Agreed. Owning the R makes you realize how stupid and compromising that huge mirrorbox space of a DSLR is. Take it from a long time FF DSLR snob. The massive mirror box/flange distance really makes it hard (and costly) to design a lens that performs. It also makes lenses unnecessarily HUGE. As the flange distance gets bigger, the lens gets exponentially larger.


Are you saying that your 16-35 is "exponentially" smaller on your EOS R?


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 6, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Go review your fifth-grade geometry text: not only cubes but ALL solid figures are 8x more voluminous when doubled in length, depth, and width.


Oops. Then again, I generally don’t refer to cylinder dimensions by height, length and width, but rather by height and diameter.

Your picture is nice, but doesn’t address the main point – a shorter flange focal distance does not automatically mean a smaller lens.


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## Pape (Mar 7, 2019)

yep its easier put lot of big sucky lenses to get good picture quality than doing it with few small.
like sigma art serie


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 7, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Granted, but for wider than 50mm... and for f/1.2, 85mm and wider... all other aspects of the attempted design being equal... it will...


Will it? So how does that explain the fact that the new Leica 35mm f/2 SL is 60% longer and double the weight of the Canon 35mm f/2 IS? I’m sure you’ll say ‘different attempted design’, of course. But the fact remains – shorter flange distance does not automatically mean smaller lenses.


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## Pape (Mar 7, 2019)

sharpness demands raise all time ,more and more lens elements needed for new monstermegapixel cameras 
even leica cant make it anymore with 7 lense


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 13, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Granted, but for wider than 50mm... and for f/1.2, 85mm and wider... all other aspects of the attempted design being equal... it will...



What does “attempted design being equal” mean? What is the rationale behind your stated cutoffs? 

A short flange 50mm lens may be the same size as a long flange 50mm lens, but all else being equal in design goals, a 49mm lens will automatically be smaller for short flange than long?

I’m not an optical engineer, but can think of really nothing that works that way.


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 13, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Oops. Then again, I generally don’t refer to cylinder dimensions by height, length and width, but rather by height and diameter.



As you probably realized, the geometry is correct. If you double diameter (i.e., the “width and length” of a circle), area is quadrupled.


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## Ozarker (Mar 13, 2019)

mangobutter said:


> It also makes lenses unnecessarily HUGE. As the flange distance gets bigger, the lens gets exponentially larger.


Tell that to the RF 28-70 f/2L and the RF 50mm f/1.2L (vs EF 50mm f/1.2L). Photo from SLRLounge. I don't believe Canon chose a mirrorless design to take away "unnecessary" size. Seems pretty low on the checklist. I know you didn't say that, but facts is facts. I'd happily take the far larger RF 50... if I had an R body. Add the adapter for the EF 50 f/1.2L and it is still smaller. Comparing lenses of different designs and from different manufacturers is apples and oranges. Many of my old screw mount lenses are tiny and have wide apertures. They were made for FF, however, the lens design itself has more to do with size than flange distance (though flange distance must be taken into account.). At this point, Canon is clearly not worried about size and weight.


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## flip314 (Mar 14, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> At this point, Canon is clearly not worried about size and weight.



Sigma has been getting praise lately for building lenses with uncompromised optical performance even if it means larger, heavier lenses. I think Canon may be taking something away from that trend.

For people who really want a small system, there's still m43


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