# Updated: Canon Speedlite 470EX-AI Additional Images & Information



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 23, 2018)

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The Canon Speedlite 470EX-AI will be announced alongside the Canon EOS M50 in a few days. This was a flash that was supposed to be announced last summer but was delayed for unknown reasons.</p>
<p><strong>Canon Speedlite 470EX-AI Specifications:</strong> (via <a href="http://digicame-info.com/2018/02/470ex-ai.html">Digicame-Info</a>)</p>
<ul>
<li>Auto intelligent (AI) bounce mode of “Full Auto” and “Semi Auto”. With an electric head rotation device, the 470EX-AI automatically determines the optimal bounce position eliminating unnecessary shadows.</li>
<li>The guide number is 47 (105 mm). It is driven by 4 AA batteries.</li>
<li>It covers the field angle of 24-105mm. Wide panel (14 mm adapter) allows light to spread wide. Clip-on bounce adapter that makes light more soft.</li>
<li>Equipped with a dot matrix display that can display more detailed information.</li>
<li>The setting can be quickly changed with the shortcut button and the controller wheel.</li>
<li>Size 74.6 x 130.4 x 105.1 mm. Weight 385 g (excluding batteries).</li>
<li><strong>Price: $399 USD</strong></li>
</ul>
<p>This new flash is scheduled to begin shipping in April of 2018.</p>

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## Sharlin (Feb 23, 2018)

*Re: Canon Speedlite 470EX-AI Additional Images & Information*

Damn. Looks like there’s actually automatic adjustment of the bounce angle.


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## tron (Feb 23, 2018)

*Re: Canon Speedlite 470EX-AI Additional Images & Information*



Canon Rumors said:


> This was a flash that was supposed to be announced last summer but was delayed for unknown reasons


Maybe it wasn't ... Intelligent enough ;D


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## magarity (Feb 23, 2018)

*Re: Canon Speedlite 470EX-AI Additional Images & Information*

It looks like the guesses about somehow sensing the distance and color of the bounce surface win. There's a little round sensor-looking thingy next to where the diffuser slides into but nowhere looks like an opening for a second path for light to come out.


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## daleg (Feb 23, 2018)

maybe Canon held it back for the release of the "EOS 8D Mark II"

btw, what's is the "EOS 8D Mark II"?

see description in announcement !?!?


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## wickedac (Feb 23, 2018)

Who is this even for? I don't get it. Does it spin around measuring distances, etc first? That would add a lot of time to the shot.I feel like if you're savvy enough to understand the usefulness of bouncing a speedlight off a wall or ceiling you'd rather choose for yourself how the light is shaped and just do it quickly.


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## CanonGrunt (Feb 23, 2018)

daleg said:


> maybe Canon held it back for the release of the "EOS 8D Mark II"
> 
> btw, what's is the "EOS 8D Mark II"?
> 
> see description in announcement !?!?




Oh boy!! I’ve been waiting forever for a replacement for my 8D!!!


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## IglooEater (Feb 23, 2018)

Talys said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > What is “auto bounce”?
> ...



Okay Talys. Your idea was much closer than I expected - I have to give you that. Hat’s off.


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## Ozarker (Feb 23, 2018)

IglooEater said:


> Talys said:
> 
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> > ScottyP said:
> ...



I guess what I thought couldn't be done is now done. Wait for the lawsuit. Canon could not have invented this. Everyone knows Canon doesn't innovate. :


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 23, 2018)

'Auto Intelligence' seems like an awfully grandiose moniker for simple geometry. :


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 23, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> 'Auto Intelligence' seems like an awfully grandiose moniker for simple geometry. :


More difficult than geometry, is knowing the distance, the reflectivity and the color of the ceiling in the real world. If the flash is able to calculate all that and adjust properly, even with the camera in portrait orientation, it would be a great technological leap.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 23, 2018)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > 'Auto Intelligence' seems like an awfully grandiose moniker for simple geometry. :
> ...



If...

Where in, "With an electric head rotation device, the 470EX-AI automatically determines the optimal bounce position eliminating unnecessary shadows," do you interpret an ability to determine reflectivity and color? Incidentally, E-TTL will handle the reflectivity, there's no need for the flash to determine that a priori.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

daleg said:


> maybe Canon held it back for the release of the "EOS 8D Mark II"
> 
> btw, what's is the "EOS 8D Mark II"?
> 
> see description in announcement !?!?



that's a machine translation error.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 23, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


I really do not like the result of bouncing the flash on ceilings of any color, other than white. If this 470EX can measure and tell the camera the correct color of the reflected light, then it would be something beyond the beautiful words of the marketing staff.


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## mb66energy (Feb 23, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
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But E-TTL cannot measure the reflectivity of the bounce surface so this has to be handled by the flash to mix the direct and bounced fractions of light correctly.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 23, 2018)

mb66energy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ajfotofilmagem said:
> ...



I didn't mean to imply that E-TTL _measures_ the reflectivity. But the reflectivity of the bounce surface determines how much bounced light reaches the subject, and E-TTL determines exposure based on light reflected from the subject. In that way, E-TTL 'handles' the reflectivity of the bounce surface.

What 'direct fraction' are you talking about mixing? If the head is elevated, it's all bounced (well, except for spill, but again, E-TTL handles that). 

I'm not sure why people think that this 'AI auto bounce' feature is addressing flash exposure...that's what E-TTL does. The point is, E-TTL cares about how much light reflects back _from_ the subject, not how that light gets _to_ the subject. Whether direct or bounced, coming from one flash or 12 flashes, it doesn't matter. The point of this feature seems exactly as described: determining the optimal bounce position to eliminate unnecessary shadows. 

Also, consider this: the exposure calculations are done based on a pre-flash, which occurs with almost no temporal separation from the actual exposure. The electric head rotation motor isn't going to move the flash head instantaneously. In other words, the AI auto bounce head movement will happen before the pre-flash/exposure sequence.


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## mb66energy (Feb 23, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> mb66energy said:
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> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
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I think I know what E-TTL does. But how can the camera "decide" if there is a good angle of the flash without knowing what is in front of the flash reflector? IMO there is a need for some device in the flash that helps to measure the reflectivity of the bounce surface. This has to be used for flash positioning. And at least: If there is no bounce surface the flash has to detect this and switch to direct light only instead of wasting light into the sky.
And a 30 degree angle - measured against the optical axis of the lens - should emit a substantial fraction of direct light onto the object but a substantial fraction of bounced light (if there is a bounce surface).
The round thing (upper right corner of reflector section) is maybe a sensor to do this: E.g. a small LIDAR which (1) measures distance, (2) can also obtain reflectivity data and (3) scan the room geometry by scanning the distance during a sweep of the head.


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## brad-man (Feb 23, 2018)

So what's the deal? The motor sucks so much juice from the batteries that they didn't want to include RT functionality? So this thing has less than half the power of the 430-RT and costs 60% more. I wonder who would choose this flash over the 430?


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## tron (Feb 24, 2018)

I do not believe that the flash will be very AI at the end. Probably more like N.S. ;D

P.S Feel free to ask for clarifications about the acronym 
Very helpful Hint: It is the opposite of AI ;D ;D ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 24, 2018)

mb66energy said:


> I think I know what E-TTL does. But how can the camera "decide" if there is a good angle of the flash without knowing what is in front of the flash reflector? IMO there is a need for some device in the flash that helps to measure the reflectivity of the bounce surface. This has to be used for flash positioning. And at least: If there is no bounce surface the flash has to detect this and switch to direct light only instead of wasting light into the sky.



I thkn you're sounding like those who saw the 'dual-sensing IS' feature on the M50 and concluded that it has IBIS: reading too much into this.



> With an electric head rotation device, the 470EX-AI automatically determines the optimal bounce position eliminating unnecessary shadows.



The goal is to eliminate unnecessary shadows, which is a geometry problem. The solution requires knowing the distance to the subject (which the lens provides, that's E-TTL II), and the distance to the bounce surface (which, presumably, is what the sensor on the front of the flash head measures). 

Sure, it's possible that the flash measures the reflectivity, color, angle (not all ceilings are flat), temperature, roughness, and/or Rayleigh scattering properties of the bounce surface. But I'll bet it measures only distance. That would cover the case where someone tries to use it under the open sky, or under a 40' ceiling.


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## wsmith96 (Feb 24, 2018)

Sounds like something else that will break.


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## Jim Saunders (Feb 24, 2018)

So it does a thing, but is that thing useful? At first glance I don't think so, but the improved display sounds like a start for the 600EX-RT III.

Show me an ST-E4-RT that has plain old mechanical dials or discrete buttons for the power level of each group and a bracket that tips up so you can see the (ahem) thing and I'll get excited.

Jim


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## Chaitanya (Feb 24, 2018)

Looks interesting not sure if the AIB will be another gimmic or something that actually works fine.


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## Adelino (Feb 24, 2018)

Canon are generally not too gimmicky. I will be interested to find out more about this flash.


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## mb66energy (Feb 24, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> mb66energy said:
> 
> 
> > I think I know what E-TTL does. But how can the camera "decide" if there is a good angle of the flash without knowing what is in front of the flash reflector? IMO there is a need for some device in the flash that helps to measure the reflectivity of the bounce surface. This has to be used for flash positioning. And at least: If there is no bounce surface the flash has to detect this and switch to direct light only instead of wasting light into the sky.
> ...



Back to the facts ... below



neuroanatomist said:


> > With an electric head rotation device, the 470EX-AI automatically determines the optimal bounce position eliminating unnecessary shadows.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My argument against measuring only the distance is that there is no substantial difference between open sky or a black ceiling at 3m distance.

My idea of a tiny LIDAR in the flash could report reflectivity of the bounce surface as a side product of its operating system - but LIDAR is speculative, I know only the VL53L0X ranger and it needs two windows but is very cheap (I think $5 if you buy a pack of 1000 pieces) and works up to 4m with well reflecting targets. Distance resolution is about 2mm 1 sigma and it works in the near IR which is not too far from the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Remote Rayleigh scattering and surface roughness analysis is - maybe - a little bit to complicate for a 400 $/EUR package that is also an AI flash


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## Ozarker (Feb 24, 2018)

Que the pessimists in 3, 2, 1... wait, they've already started. :'( 

Sony


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## Cariboucoach (Feb 24, 2018)

<li>The guide number is 47 (105 mm). It is driven by 4 AA batteries.</li>

This seems like a very low guide number. My EX 430 ii has a guide number of *141*. Who would use this flash?


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## Deleted member 378664 (Feb 24, 2018)

Cariboucoach said:


> <li>The guide number is 47 (105 mm). It is driven by 4 AA batteries.</li>
> 
> This seems like a very low guide number. My EX 430 ii has a guide number of *141*. Who would use this flash?



Where do you have that GN of 141 from for your EX 430II? This flash has a GN of 43 @ 105mm/ISO100.

The name of the flash is a hint to the GN EX 430 = GN 43
EX 580 = GN 58
EX 600 = GN 60

and now EX 470 = GN 47

Frank


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## Sharlin (Feb 24, 2018)

Photorex said:


> Cariboucoach said:
> 
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> > <li>The guide number is 47 (105 mm). It is driven by 4 AA batteries.</li>
> ...



Feet vs. meters, I presume. 43 m ≈ 141 feet. 47 m ≈ 154 feet. 'Muricans really should use meter-based GNs like the rest of the world—it's not like the literal "distance" meaning of GNs is very relevant these days anyway.


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## Cariboucoach (Feb 24, 2018)

Photorex said:


> Cariboucoach said:
> 
> 
> > <li>The guide number is 47 (105 mm). It is driven by 4 AA batteries.</li>
> ...



This is from the Canon USA website;
Superior build quality, including a metal foot for added strength
Approx. 20% faster recycling time, compared to previous 430EX
One-touch, quick-lock mechanism for easy attaching/detaching flash from camera
Full flash control possible on camera menu, with compatible EOS Digital SLR cameras
Virtually silent flash recycle
The flash head can be moved up from 0 - 90° (5 settings), left from 0 - 180° (7 settings) and right from 0 - 90° (4 settings)
Zoom flash head covers range of 24-105mm; maximum guide number 141 ft./43m at ISO 100

[iN] Now that I look at it, the guide number 47 is in meters and I am quoting feet with my EX 430. [/i]


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## Viggo (Feb 24, 2018)

What could be cool is of one could lock the bounce point so when you change camera angles the flash adjusts as to keep the same light like it was on a light stand ;D


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## brad-man (Feb 25, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> Photorex said:
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> 
> > Cariboucoach said:
> ...



Oops. Never really considered myself a "Murican" before, but in this instance, I guess I'm guilty. I still wouldn't consider buying a speedlite without RT, but I guess this release is for the kit lens crowd who won't be buying a second flash.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 25, 2018)

brad-man said:


> Oops. Never really considered myself a "Murican" before, but in this instance, I guess I'm guilty. I still wouldn't consider buying a speedlite without RT, but I guess this release is for the kit lens crowd who won't be buying a second flash.


It seems to me that 470EX AI is intended for photojournalists, more specifically the paparazzi, who does not have time to adjust the flash head to avoid shadows. It's not just a matter of price as it is not really practical to carry 2 or 3 600EX RT units, and position them in a theater staircase or lobby of a hotel where a famous person will pass in a hurry.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 26, 2018)

mb66energy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > mb66energy said:
> ...



Back to the facts ... below

[quote author=Canon]
At the core of Canon’s Speedlite 470EX-AI Flash is the innovative, new AI Bounce technology. AI Bounce automatically and intelligently determines and dictates the optimal angle of flash based off two distance variables: the distance between the camera and the ceiling, and the distance between the camera and the shooting subject. 
[/quote]

I think you'll agree that Canon's description of their AI Bounce technology bears more than a passing resemblance to my description, highlighted above.


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## Viggo (Feb 26, 2018)

Hey! I was right, you CAN lock the position and it will automatically turn when moving the camera 

https://youtu.be/lPb9uWM83bU


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## hne (Feb 26, 2018)

Crystal ball reading points go to Viggo and neuroanatomist.

I like the idea of flash angle being constant while camera moves. Even better if they had mechanics that allowed faster/continuous rotation of the flash head.


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## slclick (Mar 1, 2018)

No support for 5D3. That's one way to get those stubborn 5D3 holdouts to upgrade.


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