# My First EOS-M Review



## wickidwombat (Nov 7, 2012)

Well I Finally got my EOS-M a few days ago

Why did I get an EOS-M? I hear you ask. (Especially considering the loathing I have for the poorly performing 18MP APS-C sensors) 

Well quite simply this. I had a Fuji X10 that went back to Fuji about 5 times with them either not fixing the problems and or breaking other stuff in the process in the end the store I bought it from said put it back in the box and bring it back and we'll give you a new one so I said "I'm done with crap Fuji service just put the value towards a preorder on the EOS-M (AT least Canon have good service!)
I just had to pay the difference. I went with the whole shebang and got the full kit EOS-M, 22mm, 18-55, EX90 and the EF adapter

So what do I think of it?
Well to be honest I have very mixed feelings about the little guy I'll go through a few things
I've taken a bunch of test images which I may post if I can be bothered I've been quite busy of late

First I will address the AF that seems to be getting hammered in reviews

Is it really slower than the average politician’s brain? Well yes... yes it is
However that is if you use the shutter button it... is... pain... fully... dog... slow and focuses on random S___ you had no intention of focusing on. The shutter button on this camera is nearly close to useless.

Wow that’s a pretty big smack down you say?

Yeah sure is, however then I discovered the touch operated shutter mode and face recognition and tracking
Quite frankly this is seriously good it makes the AF maybe 10 times faster than the ponderous shutter button with wierd crappy focus selection mode. 

How to describe the touch to shoot?
It’s kind of like spot focus... so you tap the screen on the thing you want to shoot and bam the camera focuses on that thing and takes the shot at the same time. Fast. Not as fast as say a 1D, 5Dmk3 or probably even a 7D
But it's quick, and a very usable quick at that. Now the face tracking thing if you have the continuous AF enabled with the face tracky gizmo then it’s even faster since it’s already tracking faces and is basically nearly there you simply tap the face its already tracking and it shoots even if you tap something else it’s still faster. Kind of like a servo but better, I haven’t tried out the Servo function on this camera yet and to be honest the face tracking and touch to shoot is probably quite adequate in this regard.

THE LENSES
The 22mm f2 is really nice, it’s very compact 43mm filter thread smaller than even the 40mm pancake well built, and really quite sharp even wide open (sharp relative to the APS-C sensor that is) I can see this lens spending the most time on this thing it’s pretty damn good and very compact.

The 18-55 its well-made too same build quality as the 22mm, quite compact with a smooth zoom extension and smooth manual focus ring no zoom creep that I noticed but it weighs next to nothing so I would not expect creep in this lens. But it’s slow, uninspiring and well, it’s a kit lens. Stopped down it seems sharp enough but we are talking f8 and be there kind of stuff. Next to the 22mm it looks bad I’m just not used to using lenses with a max aperture of 3.5-5.6 anymore so I particularly coupled with the poor iso performance I can’t see this lens getting a lot of use. 
Since its STM though, its continuous AF is quite smooth and silent compared to USM lenses with the adaptor which make a lot of noise and the sound gives me a bad feeling about putting un needed wear on the lens so I turned off the continuous AF when using the EF adapter and all the other lenses. I would recommend turning off continuous focus when USM lenses are attached and leave continuous focus on if using an STM lens.
On this point I’ll add that a 15-85 IS STM EF-M lens would probably be a pretty decent lens on this camera if it was optically as good as the EF-S one.

What other lenses did I try out?
Well after having a brief go with the 18-55 and feeling very underwhelmed I thought I would throw on the 16-35 f2.8L II once I turned off the continuous AF I no longer felt like my poor L lens was going to explode and it was a reasonable snappy focuser and super sharp. The balance was actually pretty reasonable holding the lens in my left hand using my left thumb to zoom and shooting with my right fore finger on the touch screen. And its corner to corner sharp even at f2.8 

I’ll add here that the USM lenses seem to focus quite a bit slower when they have to rack from end to end if you try to focus on something near and something far I would put the AF speed in a similar range to the 85f1.2L II on a 5Dmk2 say for AF speed using the 16-35 f2.8L II so pretty sluggish but useable.
On real DSLRs this lens has very fast AF , but I can definitely see myself using the 16-35 f2.8L II on the eos-M when I want a zoom rather than the 18-55 kit. With an equivalent focal range of 25.6mm – 56mm it’s not too bad at focusing and delivers superior IQ

The next lens I whacked on was the 70-200 f2.8L IS II… it was, well not very comfortable to hold, I would say you would need to use a monopod for this to be remotely effective.
However the AF was very quick (remembering that I’ve basically given up on ever using that silly shutter button ever again an I’m doing everything by the touch screen) AF speed increases too if you use the focus limiter switch on the lens and shot farther away than 2.5m, again continuous AF does not make sounds that I want to hear from such an expensive lens so it went off.
Then I couldn’t resist it any longer I wanted to see what it was like on the 600 f4.5 FD so I popped it on and well since this is a manual lens I ran into my first massive disappointment with this camera… aside from the useless shutter button (at least that has a work around)
No live view magnification = weak sauce. Seriously Canon give yourselves an upper cut for that one… Jackasses 
Hopefully this can be fixed by the wonderful people at magic lantern but in real life since you are shooting in live view all the time not having the magnification ability is just dumb. I’ll have to try tethered shooting using the android chainfire app, and see if it will work with the control over HDMI
(that’s a mission for another day)
Anyway I focused the 600 as best I could and it produces some pretty decent images, I was reasonably impressed, next I grabbed a 12mm extension tube (since I still have the aperture lever on the lens I needed to space it away so I could use my teleconverters) since I was shooting at near minimum focus distance I did not miss losing infinity focus for the purpose of messing about with this.
Popped on the kenko 1.4 300DGX and it worked perfectly. by the way the AF confirm chip from the edmika adapter worked perfectly on the EF- EOS-M took a few shots wide open and then stopped down and yeah stopped down IQ didn’t degrade too badly at all. NICE!
Next up the Canon 2x mk III and well it didn’t play nice and refused to work so I thought I’d try stacking them and what da ya know with the kenko between the 2x and the EF adapter the camera worked for a total equivalent full frame focal length of 2688mm YAY! Ok yeah there was a fair bit of image degradation doing this but you didn’t really expect anything else did you? Still it’s probably better optically than most telescopes anyway.
Even though I was shooting on a tripod on solid floor with solid gimbal and using the 10 second timer It was taking a long time for the shake just from taking the shot to die down probably an IR trigger would work best.
I also popped on the sigma 50mm f1.4 and its AF sounded like it was going to have an epileptic fit so it didn’t stay on for very long. The Sigma 85 f1.4 went on and worked pretty well though it was much slower to achieve focus than the 70-200 was but still not too bad
NEXT UP was playing with the flashes
The little ex90 is not a bad little guy and provides enough light for on camera flash in doors at a reasonable distance even though it’s not massively powerful. It’s very compact, takes 2 AAA batteries, plastic hot shoe mount, has an on off button and a lock (quite disappointed they didn’t make it articulated so you could bounce with it though… again bad Canon bad dog) while I was playing with the ex90 I found in the custom options you can program the rubbish bin button while in shooting mode to bring up the flash exposure compensation this is excellent as it makes it very accessible very quickly (good Canon… good dog) so in AV mode the right d pad controls normal EC and the down d pad controls flash exposure compensation. Not bad at all so it’s just as fast as dialing in flash exposure on the back of a 580.
Next on went an Odin controller and popped a 580 on a receiver and it all worked perfectly no issues, I was very happy to see the odins work well with no issues
Mind you the odin controller is almost the same size as the camera!
The Sensor FWIW
Now onto the sensor, well It is 18 MP APS-C.
At iso 100 has about the same noise as the 5Dmk3 at ISO 800  but given its super compact size its ok, as in average and with some NR from lightroom it cleans up ok but having to add NR to an ISO 100 image is not good in the first place. After playing with some high ISO samples in lightroom I feel that at iso 1600 this sensor needs / takes the same level of lightroom 4.2 Noise reduction that a 5Dmk3 file takes at ISO 16,000. No exaggeration either. ISO 3200 is probably the upper limit, it does not hold up even as well as the 1Dmk3 holds up at 3200 so for real use 1600 about my tolerance level, maybe a little more especially if converting to black and white. Where I have 3200 on the 1Dmk3, 3200 to 6400 at a pinch on the 5Dmk2 and 16,000 on the 5Dmk3. I’ll have to borrow a 600D to compare the new to older 18MP APS-C sensors to see if there is much difference however vs APS-H and Full frame sensors its simply not in the game.
Pattern noise shows up very early on the eos-m sensor and gets real aggressive real quick even straight out of camera with no pushing of exposure or of shadows the dark areas already exhibit pattern noise straight up. (I will never understand why APS-C fans still defend this format so vigorously)

I felt the camera metered consistently underexposing by a stop or more in AV mode or using auto ISO not really surprising given auto ISO on all the other cameras is somewhat lacking anyway. It would still be nice to be able to be in M mode and have EC apply to the iso but in M mode the EC button has no effect (I’ll be honest I wasn’t expecting any earth shattering kabooms here but it would be nice if Canon one day decided to make their cameras function this way with a firmware update )

I did not try out and most like never will try any creative modes and lame stuff like in camera HDR etc
AV is about at automated as I like to get and even then it does my head in sometimes.

I did play with the video a little it looks ok, the STM auto focus in video would be better if it stopped hunting after it locked onto its subject however it just hunts in and out of focus constantly and never gets settled down, not sure if this can be fixed with firmware. One would think if the face detection was enabled once it had acquired the selected subject it would stay acquired but it still hunts. My feeling is that this must be able to be fixed in firmware, whether or not it actually does get fixed is another story.

So My Brief summary
PROS
•	Very compact size
•	Nice build quality
•	Great screen
•	Touch interface works well
•	Interface is really quite intuitive and works well with reasonably easy access to most settings
•	Touch to shoot saves the AF despite the lame shutter button at ruining the camera
•	Touch to shoot is REALLY good so it gets mentioned twice
•	22mm Lens is awesome and very sharp wide open
•	EF adapter is great and works well ability to use stunning EF lenses and retain autofocus no other mirrorless can match this
•	Big sensor for such a little camera
•	OK Image quality at low ISO coming from low end DSLR or point and shoot some might say awesome IQ however coming from far superior sensors you see the weak spots instantly. Its all relative.

CONS
•	AF using shutter button is a total joke (must have been developed on April 1st)
•	No zoom in live view shooting given you only have live view shooting as an option this is stupid
•	Some lenses perform significantly better than others using the EF adapter and not necessarily the same as they would on a DSLR
•	Underexposure when you trust the camera to meter for you I found the best way to use this camera is in AV with +1 EC dialed in and auto ISO unless you specifically want iso 100 or it will select iso 400 as a minimum for some weird reason. Then if using flash you can dial in some flash EC too as needed after configuring the rubbish bin to be flash EC in custom settings
•	No chance of using this camera for street photography or shooting from the hip with the shutter button. To have it focus properly any subject is definitely gonna know they are having their picture taken
•	Not many custom options
•	AEM only 3 shots like on a rebel
•	Limited iso step selections (full stops only up on high)
•	Video auto focus is not very good and could do with a fix to improve consistency.
•	Expensive for what it is. I feel the price is high for what it is many will probably agree here too if the prices came down 25 or 30% I would say it’s getting more reasonable

Would I get it as my only camera?
I would have to say for me definitely not. Its lacking too much flexibility and too many features.

As an additional second, third? Or sixteenth camera?
Yes it is good in this regard due to its light weight and tiny size so for something like travel to accompany a 5Dmk3 I would say the EOS-M with 22mm and the EF adapter will be great forget the 18-55 and use better EF lenses. Or handy to take to a party where you know you’ll just be taking some happy snaps.
My wife already likes the compact size and the 22mm lens as well as the tiny size and weight.

I've added some high iso samples with the 70-200 f2.8 II+ 2x TC mkIII and the 22mm just converted from LR Raw with no processing


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## AprilForever (Nov 7, 2012)

Pictures please! And thanks for your time on the reviews!


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## Act444 (Nov 7, 2012)

I tend to agree that I probably would have to think hard (and also get more hands-on time with the camera) before recommending it as an ONLY camera. A major reason I can deal with its shortcomings is because the DSLR I already have compensates for them- and that played into my decision as well. For someone without a DSLR, the decision gets tougher. And at that price point you can have a DSLR, too. I guess it just comes down to whether you value portability or functionality more.


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## caMARYnon (Nov 7, 2012)

Thank you


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## Woody (Nov 7, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Yeah sure is, however then I discovered the touch operated shutter mode and face recognition and tracking
> Quite frankly this is seriously good it makes the AF maybe 10 times faster than the ponderous shutter button with wierd crappy focus selection mode.
> 
> How to describe the touch to shoot?
> ...



Thanks for this important finding. It's enough to make me go grab an EOS-M + 22 f/2 lens. I was thinking of getting the Olympus OM-D + Panasonic 25 f/1.4 lens because I wanted the rapid face tracking feature. But if the Canon combo is fast enough, I will be happy to get one, especially since it's about half the price of the m43 combo.


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## ChadSorianoPhotoBlog (Nov 7, 2012)

Yes, the EF-M 22mm f/2 STM lens is fabulous. Super sharp and good color for the size. I shot this turtle over the weekend at a birthday party.
The video quality is great but the AF Servo during recording sucks just as much as the T4i. I stuck to manual focus.

Some pics and my video test here...

http://www.chadsorianophotoblog.com/2012/11/canon-eos-m-video-test.html

My EF-M to EF adapter should be coming in soon and I will post some more pics.

thanks


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## distant.star (Nov 7, 2012)

.
Thanks, Wickid. Comprehensive review from the real world -- and far better than we'll ever see from paid reviewers.

I looked this morning at sample images on dpreview. The real shortcoming seems to be in anything resembling a landscape picture. They had a few low-light, high-ISO pics that are better than what I would have expected. Overall, I was favorably impressed.

This confirms my first belief -- it's Canon's first evolutionary step in this direction. Slow, small, but sure footed.


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## Act444 (Nov 9, 2012)

Just tried the M with the adapter and my old 24-85mm lens. My goodness...focus is slooooowwwww...it makes the 22mm seem lightning quick in comparison. Average time seemed to be about 2-3 seconds to confirm! (On my 60D, it's quick, within a split second as is usual with USM lenses...it front focuses though)

Anyone else with the adapter + EF lenses getting focus times that slow?


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## wickidwombat (Nov 9, 2012)

Act444 said:


> Just tried the M with the adapter and my old 24-85mm lens. My goodness...focus is slooooowwwww...it makes the 22mm seem lightning quick in comparison. Average time seemed to be about 2-3 seconds to confirm! (On my 60D, it's quick, within a split second as is usual with USM lenses...it front focuses though)
> 
> Anyone else with the adapter + EF lenses getting focus times that slow?


Depends on the lens also did you try the touch to shoot mode instead of the shutter button?


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## Act444 (Nov 10, 2012)

I did not.

To be honest I'm really not a fan of "touch to shoot". Harder to steady the camera that way...plus, to me it feels unnatural, at least when hand-holding it. 

Maybe it would make more sense when tripod-shooting?


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## bycostello (Nov 10, 2012)

nice review but think i'm going to go for the new fuji... want/ need the fast AF


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## Daniel Flather (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks for your effort and time wickidwombat.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

here is the eos-m and 600mm FD with edmika adapter 

all these following flower images are at iso100


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

here is the eos-m with 600mm FD and kenko 1.4 DGX300 TC


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

here is the eos-m with 600mm FD with kenko 1.4 TC and canon 2x extender mkIII


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

and some reference shots with 5Dmk2 on the 600mm FD

on all these shots the lens on tripod did not move so its only the effective focal lengths changing with format and tele converters


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## mrsfotografie (Nov 11, 2012)

Excellent review, wickidwombat! Thanks for that.

It however confirms what I've been thinking from previous comments on the camera's performance: to wait and see where Canon will take the EOS-M system before jumping in at the first instance. For me, the poor AF performance (using the 'traditional' shutter button) is a deal breaker. Some more R&D to be done there...


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## gmrza (Nov 11, 2012)

mrsfotografie said:


> Excellent review, wickidwombat! Thanks for that.
> 
> It however confirms what I've been thinking from previous comments on the camera's performance: to wait and see where Canon will take the EOS-M system before jumping in at the first instance. For me, the poor AF performance (using the 'traditional' shutter button) is a deal breaker. Some more R&D to be done there...



I am hoping that the fact that the EOS-M seems to be doing very well in some markets (like Japan) will give it the scale for Canon to add other more advanced bodies. Once there is one with an EVF, better AF and a socket for a wired remote shutter release, I'm in. - Oh, and also with a new sensor - I don't need another camera with the current 18MP sensor tech.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

gmrza said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent review, wickidwombat! Thanks for that.
> ...



the iphone app dslrbot works like a wired shutter release using IR trigger butt can control all sorts of functions, bracketing, intervalometer long exposure etc so that my current solution to that, i have yet to try out tethered shooting over HDMI though too


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## funkboy (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks very much for the extensive review!


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## elflord (Nov 11, 2012)

Do they have an AF mode where you can select a point (or little box) on the touch screen and have it focus on that ? How well does AF perform if you do it that way ? 

I have a panasonic GF2 that has similar AF options. I don't use touch shoot because I like to get a lock and then decide when to shoot (and maybe shoot a few frames, not just one). I seldom use AF tracking on mirrorless unless I'm in video mode (which works pretty well on the new panasonic bodies). For stills I like to use single point AF like I would with a DSLR (though I use the touch screen to pick out the point)


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

elflord said:


> Do they have an AF mode where you can select a point (or little box) on the touch screen and have it focus on that ? How well does AF perform if you do it that way ?
> 
> I have a panasonic GF2 that has similar AF options. I don't use touch shoot because I like to get a lock and then decide when to shoot (and maybe shoot a few frames, not just one). I seldom use AF tracking on mirrorless unless I'm in video mode (which works pretty well on the new panasonic bodies). For stills I like to use single point AF like I would with a DSLR (though I use the touch screen to pick out the point)


Yes it has a spot focus mode however it's the exact same deal using the shutter button it hunts and racks focus and takes ages to lock with the touch to shoot mode it's almost instant probably not far off the speed of a rebel. The difference is quite wierd. If you turn off touch to shoot and touch the screen it focuses quite fast but when you hit the shutter button it has additional lag like its focusing again. The only scenario I have found the shutter button response to be even close to acceptable is if continuous focus is on and it's in face detect mode and has already locked onto a face. Then it's quite quick however touching the screen is always the fastest


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

here are some 100% crops of unedited raws in LR 4.2 for the 2 high iso shots


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## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

here are some 100% crops of unedited files in LR 4.2 for the 600, the 600+1.4tc and the 600 +1.4 + 2x stacked combo
all iso 100


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## Daniel Flather (Nov 12, 2012)

Nice, could you post a few with the 22mm wide open @ iso 800/1600?


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## wickidwombat (Nov 12, 2012)

Daniel Flather said:


> Nice, could you post a few with the 22mm wide open @ iso 800/1600?


here ya go and 400 and 3200 bonus images


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## wickidwombat (Nov 12, 2012)

100% crops of the above
straight raw files in LR


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## wickidwombat (Nov 12, 2012)

bokeh test with some led lights in background auto iso it chose 640 (can only select full stop iso, boo)


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## AmbientLight (Nov 12, 2012)

Many thanks for your time spent testing the EOS-M, Wickid. The results are well worth it - for me this is the best, most useful EOS-M review provided so far. It is kind of sad the EOS-M doesn't seem to make a good street photography tool. Perhaps with the next EOS-M version this might change.


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## Daniel Flather (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks wickedwombat. I think the M might be an ideal camera as an EDC, as I don't carry a phone, yes, I'm that one guy sans iPhone/smartphone. The iso 3200 looks good for what I'd use it for —99% 1024x*** jpegs.

Also, you put a lemon in ur Corona?


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## wickidwombat (Nov 12, 2012)

Actually 3200 is not too bad it responds ok to noise reduction but pattern noise in shadows starts to show. All those I had in av with 1/3 Ec adde in, it could probably have taken 2/3 to protect the shadows more. I find the oof areas show noise up quite badly even at lower Iso most can be fixed with extra noise reduction in light room. After using it a bit more i really feel that the shutter button issue could be fixed in firmware since the touch to shoot is so fast surely they could make the spot focus mode using the shutter just as fast. It's a pity they didn't manage to clean up the quality of the noise like the 5d3 then iso 6400 would be totally useable however when you apply noise reduction latter noise sticks out a lot. And it takes high amounts of noise reduction to clean up. But considering the tiny size of the camera image quality is respectable and very usable up to 1600 with 3200 ok if exposed properly with no under exposure 6400 could also be saved for some shots but its not an Iso I would use a lot on this camera.
Doesn't everyone put lemon in corona?


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## gmrza (Nov 12, 2012)

I know you were underwhelmed by the 18-55mm kit lens - it would however be interesting to see some examples shot with that lens, and possibly some crops as well.


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## Daniel Flather (Nov 12, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Doesn't everyone put lemon in corona?



No, usually a lime.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 13, 2012)

gmrza said:


> I know you were underwhelmed by the 18-55mm kit lens - it would however be interesting to see some examples shot with that lens, and possibly some crops as well.



yeah sure i'll do a head to head vs the 16-35 f2.8LII this weekend


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## gmrza (Nov 13, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> gmrza said:
> 
> 
> > I know you were underwhelmed by the 18-55mm kit lens - it would however be interesting to see some examples shot with that lens, and possibly some crops as well.
> ...



That would be awesome, although a kit lens against the 16-35 is like taking a knife to a gunfight! It should give a very good juxtaposition though.


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## Cb33 (Nov 13, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> No live view magnification = weak sauce... since you are shooting in live view all the time not having the magnification ability is just dumb.



First, thanks for the detailed review. I wanted to love this camera as a second body for traveling lighter, but with all the negative reviews of the af speed I almost wrote it off. You turned me around enough to go try it for myself at a local camera shop. I totally agree that the tap to take a photo method gives the fastest af. 

I also noticed that there was a live view magnification, but I believe the camera has to be set to manual focus for the option to be available. Once it is in manual focus mode a magnifying glass icon in the lower right corner of the screen lets you cycle through 1x, 5x and 10x magnification (I think). I only got to play with the camera for a limited time so I'm no expert, but I you should definitely look into getting that live view magnification working. I'd love to help remove a negative from your cons list.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 13, 2012)

Cb33 said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > No live view magnification = weak sauce... since you are shooting in live view all the time not having the magnification ability is just dumb.
> ...



cool thanks for the heads up. 
Even though when i was using the 600FD which is manual focus anyway i never changed the camera into manual focus mode. I'll try it out, this will make things tons better for manual focus lenses, still it would be good if it automatically changed itself into this mode when a non autofocus enabled lens was attached the magnification would be handy even in auto focus too to verify it was getting it right, however so far AF accuracy has not appeared to be an issue with the tap to shoot mode, using the shutter button it focuses on all manner of wierd stuff but as for hitting the target with the touch to shoot i'm impressed with the accuracy even at narrow apertures.
they should be able to enable magnification in any mode too just like the 5D cameras in live view. heres hoping for a firmware update that gives magnification to all modes and gives the shutter button the touch to shoot speed (which is pretty reasonable).

To be totally honest the more I use this little guy the more I like it. 
I think the quality of the little 22mm f2 plays a part here its a nice combo. 
I think even iso3200 is useable if you absolutely make sure nothing is even close to being under exposed or contains heavy shadows.
I still think if it were cheaper it would appeal to alot more people, I feel the price will come down relatively soon though.
I have also noticed battery life is not fantastic I guess it goes with the territory of being permanently in live view
and having that great screen.


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## Cb33 (Nov 13, 2012)

Agreed on all your points about magnification in all focus modes. It seems like that should be possible with firmware either from Canon or magic lantern. 

Also, I agree it would be excellent if firmware could improve shutter button af speed to be on par with the screen tap speed. 

Plus speaking of manual focus lenses. I know your 600mm is in use with the edmika converter. I hear edmika stuff is high quality, but another big POTENTIAL plus to the EOS M is that it might be able to accept FD lenses with a simple optics free adapter. 

I'm leaning pretty hard towards adding this camera to my kit, but I dislike just hoping so many things will come about eventually. If I were smart I would wait for the adapter and firmware updates to happen because by then the price will have dipped nicely, I think.


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## gmrza (Nov 13, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> To be totally honest the more I use this little guy the more I like it.
> I think the quality of the little 22mm f2 plays a part here its a nice combo.
> I think even iso3200 is useable if you absolutely make sure nothing is even close to being under exposed or contains heavy shadows.
> I still think if it were cheaper it would appeal to alot more people, I feel the price will come down relatively soon though.
> ...



I would be interested to know if there is any difference in high ISO performance to the 7D. While they have sensors based on the same technology, the DIGIC chip is still involved even in RAW processing. (That said, I have also got some pretty decent ISO3200 shots off the 7D - again where there are not too many shadows.)

I am conflicted about jumping to buy one of these little fellows. I did really want something with an EVF, but at the same time, my G11 is starting to show wear and tear. I probably should wait for the price to drop, in which case, I can focus mainly on the money spent on lenses and the adapter, and accept that I will replace the body when something better comes out.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 13, 2012)

gmrza said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > To be totally honest the more I use this little guy the more I like it.
> ...



I can get my hands on a 600D to compare but not a 7D
i'll try borrow the 600D and the 18-55 EF-S kit lens on the weekend to compare sensors and kits lenses too

It might be worth waiting to see if a firmware update comes out cleaning up some of the issues and also if a price drop makes it more appealing as it stands the eos-m kit plus 22mm, 18-55, EF adapter and ex90 flash is not too far off the cost of a 5Dmk2 body brand new.

Depends how bad you want one really, you actually get used to the touch to shoot pretty quickly, I'm really liking it


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## gmrza (Nov 14, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I can get my hands on a 600D to compare but not a 7D
> i'll try borrow the 600D and the 18-55 EF-S kit lens on the weekend to compare sensors and kits lenses too


AFAIK, the 600D and 7D sensors are exactly the same. The 600D just doesn't have the problem of having dual data paths that the dual-DIGIC architecture in the 7D introduces (apparently visible at times).

That would be a really cool comparison.



wickidwombat said:


> It might be worth waiting to see if a firmware update comes out cleaning up some of the issues and also if a price drop makes it more appealing as it stands the eos-m kit plus 22mm, 18-55, EF adapter and ex90 flash is not too far off the cost of a 5Dmk2 body brand new.



Hmm,
I see the dual lens kit with the Speedlite goes for around $1011 (incl GST) - RRP is $1149. The EF to EFM adaptor goes for around $131 (RRP $149). That's a total of about $1142 (incl GST). Where are you getting your 5DIIs from? ;-)



wickidwombat said:


> Depends how bad you want one really, you actually get used to the touch to shoot pretty quickly, I'm really liking it



That is what I am thinking - that is how you would mainly use it with the 22mm lens, which would probably be the most used lens.

One other thought: with the EX90 Speedlite, have you thought of the idea of using a short TTL cable and holding the flash in one hand and the camera in the other to achieve bounce flash? (Of course you couldn't use touch to shoot then, unless you were a three-armed mutant!)


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## wickidwombat (Nov 14, 2012)

its more expensive here in australia i think around $1350 or something
I got credited back what the fuji x10 cost me before which was around $800
so I only had to pay $550 for the eos-m 
And i know a few people snapping up new 5Dmk2s for around $1500


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## gmrza (Nov 14, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> its more expensive here in australia i think around $1350 or something
> I got credited back what the fuji x10 cost me before which was around $800
> so I only had to pay $550 for the eos-m
> And i know a few people snapping up new 5Dmk2s for around $1500



I was quoting Australian pricing. ;-) The twin lens + Speedlite kit is available for AUD 1011.12 and the adapter for AUD 131.12.

True - there are 5DIIs floating around (parallel import) for just under $1600:
http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/categories/Digital-SLR/Canon-Digital-SLR/Canon-5D-Mark-II/


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## Cb33 (Nov 14, 2012)

gmrza said:


> One other thought: with the EX90 Speedlite, have you thought of the idea of using a short TTL cable and holding the flash in one hand and the camera in the other to achieve bounce flash? (Of course you couldn't use touch to shoot then, unless you were a three-armed mutant!)



At my local camera shop, the clerk and I were messing about with the 90ex. We didn't try to use a TTL cable, but he did say it should work as a master for compatible off camera Canon flashes. He even stuck it on a 5DmkIII and it seems it should work as a master on it and presumably other FF Canons without built-in flashes too.


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## Cb33 (Nov 14, 2012)

Cb33 said:


> At my local camera shop, the clerk and I were messing about with the 90ex. We didn't try to use a TTL cable, but he did say it should work as a master for compatible off camera Canon flashes. He even stuck it on a 5DmkIII and it seems it should work as a master on it and presumably other FF Canons without built-in flashes too.



I should add that there wasn't a display model external flash to act as slave. So we never actually tested the ability of the 90ex to act as master, just saw that the menu options were there. 

I hope to go back tomorrow with my wife so that she can play with it before we decide if we want to buy it. When I do go back to the shop, I'll bring my 430exii to test it with.


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## infared (Nov 14, 2012)

Wickiwombat...seems to me that you are trying to talk yourself into liking a piece of crap, (compared to what's available in the marketplace today).....please read what you have written...it is kind of obvious.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 14, 2012)

infared said:


> Wickiwombat...seems to me that you are trying to talk yourself into liking a piece of crap, (compared to what's available in the marketplace today).....please read what you have written...it is kind of obvious.



maybe... but can you be more specific?

however currently this is the only mirrorless camera that can use autofocus canon lenses
it has lots of negatives but it does have positives too.

I wouldnt go as far as calling it a piece of crap though


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## Cb33 (Nov 16, 2012)

I said I would check back in after I played with the M and the 90ex in a store, so… the 90ex works as a master to control off camera canon speedlites. I tested it with a 430exii and all controls worked via the menu system on camera. There is only an on off button on the 90ex flash so obviously there is no way to control the external flash from there. It doesn't exactly make it okay that the 90ex isn't able to angle for bouncing off the ceiling, but it is a nice feature. And as I said before it seems like it would also serve as a cheap but fairly weak master for a 5DIII or 1DX.

I also made a final decision to hold off on buying an EOS M. One of the reasons I own a camera is to take pictures of my son and it's just not going to work for that. I am actually saddened. Here's hoping for that firmware update or I'll be waiting and hoping that the second generation will have improved af speed. 

I'm glad you are liking yours, though wickidwombat.


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## asmundma (Nov 17, 2012)

Hi
Thanks for the nice review.
I bought a EOS M yesterday (with both lenses and the adapter) , although it's early times, here is some findings. My intention for buying was handheld video, as I travel around the world in my job and it's hard to pickup the 5D3 spontaneous. For sure this camera is an add-on to my 5D3.
I have noticed that AF is much faster if you use the "spot" metering, less hunting, both for video and pictures. Actually shooting with touching the screen is good as you easily can place the focus where you want, as for iphone. It also reduces possible hunting for auto focus. 
If you gonna move the focus point on a 5D3, it will also take some time. 
Nice is also that you can download picture styles as for the bigger brothers, you footage for video can then look more similar and easier to grade.


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## mrsfotografie (Nov 17, 2012)

*Focus Peaking*

I've been comparing the EOS-M to the Sony Nex series and IMHO this is what the EOS-M needs to be competitive, at least if you want to use manual focus lenses via an adapter:

http://www.popphoto.com/news/2011/06/sony-firmware-update-brings-peaking-to-nex-3-and-nex-5


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## gmrza (Nov 18, 2012)

Cb33 said:


> I also made a final decision to hold off on buying an EOS M. One of the reasons I own a camera is to take pictures of my son and it's just not going to work for that. I am actually saddened. Here's hoping for that firmware update or I'll be waiting and hoping that the second generation will have improved af speed.
> 
> I'm glad you are liking yours, though wickidwombat.



My main interest in the EOS M has been as a replacement for my G11, which is starting to show wear and tear. After playing around with it in a store, my current feeling is that I want to wait a few months until Canon announces the next EOS M body - hopefully with an EVF - for an interchangeable lens camera, I really do want a viewfinder. - I can accept that an EVF will make it slightly bigger, but that is a price I am prepared to pay.

I found the tap-to-shoot functionality novel, but slightly awkward. I struggled a little to hold the camera and leave one hand free to tap with.

In all fairness, considering the target market for this camera (P&S upgraders) it doesn't seem bad. It isn't targeted at someone who has been using a SLR in manual mode however. Unfortunately, enthusiasts are probably in the minority.


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## Act444 (Nov 18, 2012)

FINALLY got to use the EOS M in the real world (a show I went to a couple of days ago, would not have gotten in with a 5D3). I just have to give a +1 to the incredible image quality out of this cam - I was pleasantly surprised, even in the low light. It's perfectly fine as an eventual replacement for my SD950IS - _finally_, a compact camera that can provide decent IQ! 

Its weak point, as everyone has already said, is the AF. It's usually quick enough but on occasion it will hunt (go in and out) when it was in focus already- not sure why/how that happens, the SD950IS never did that- but hopefully that's something that can be tweaked/fixed in firmware. (Didn't stop me from getting a few cool action shots though ;D )

I made use of the continuous shooting mode several times. It's actually quite responsive and coupled with the manual control allowed me to get shots I likely would not have captured with the SD950IS.

The 22mm lens was a bit wider than I would have liked for many shots (provided a good perspective when the action was close, though)...I would really like to see a ~50mm fast prime lens that's either the same size as or just a little larger than the 22. 

But comparing to the SD950IS - completely blows it out of the water in IQ, color reproduction and resolution. Plus I can shoot RAW and my workflow is the same as when I shoot with the DSLR. I still carried the SD950IS with me and used it when I wanted to get a little closer...comparing the pics, you can EASILY tell which camera took which shot.


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## mrsfotografie (Nov 18, 2012)

*Re: Focus Peaking*



mrsfotografie said:


> I've been comparing the EOS-M to the Sony Nex series and IMHO this is what the EOS-M needs to be competitive, at least if you want to use manual focus lenses via an adapter:
> 
> http://www.popphoto.com/news/2011/06/sony-firmware-update-brings-peaking-to-nex-3-and-nex-5



Update: 

I partially made up my mind, for a mirrorless I definitely prefer the Sony NEX-6 over the EOS-M (for now). I think it is so much more camera and more suited for use with MF lenses, also for the money. Lens-wise I would go for the Sony kit zoom in e-mount only, and a Nex-FD adapter for my FD lenses. Giving my FD lenses a new lease of life does have a lot of appeal if only I get to play around with them on a digital body. I have no interest in using my EOS lenses for the mirrorless body so EOS compatibility is not an issue for me. 

Now I need to consider if I am truly going mirrorless, itchy feeling with the upcoming festive season  

To change my mind, Canon needs to hurry up with that second EOS-M body!! 8)


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## Eli (Nov 18, 2012)

Question for all the people who own the eos m; how do you find the 18-55 lens? I'm contemplating getting the 18-55 kit or just the 22mm with adaptor and use my EF lenses if I need zoom..


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## wickidwombat (Nov 21, 2012)

Eli said:


> Question for all the people who own the eos m; how do you find the 18-55 lens? I'm contemplating getting the 18-55 kit or just the 22mm with adaptor and use my EF lenses if I need zoom..


Sorry I was too busy to do my test i'll try get onto it this weekend
I just ordered the lens coat p&s body bag large for it which should fit nicely too


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## M.ST (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you for your review.


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## funkboy (Nov 21, 2012)

Eli said:


> Question for all the people who own the eos m; how do you find the 18-55 lens? I'm contemplating getting the 18-55 kit or just the 22mm with adaptor and use my EF lenses if I need zoom..



Well, Roger at Lensrentals seems to have found it to be quite good:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/10/eos-m-first-impressions

"As to the 18-55 kit lens, I didn’t have a lot of samples to test, but it was shockingly sharp, too. Tested at 22mm (because that’s what we were set up at) and f/4 it was nearly as good as the 22mm prime was at f/2.0. That’s quite a good showing for the kit lens. I would mention, though, it has a breathtaking amount of barrel distortion at the wide end. Not quite a fisheye zoom, but you’ll notice it, no question."


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## Act444 (Nov 23, 2012)

I took some test shots with the 18-55 at my camera store (was looking to get one soon), put them on my card to evaluate...I was underwhelmed. 

Build quality is MUCH better than the DSLR version, but IQ seems to be about the same, unfortunately. Images lacked sharpness and pop, even shooting in RAW. The 22mm is noticeably better. (I don't know if I was given a bum sample or what...I see people saying it's sharp but I cannot agree, unfortunately)

On the positive side, though- it feels nice and solid. Not cheap and plasticky like the EF-S version.


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## verysimplejason (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Focus Peaking*



mrsfotografie said:


> I've been comparing the EOS-M to the Sony Nex series and IMHO this is what the EOS-M needs to be competitive, at least if you want to use manual focus lenses via an adapter:
> 
> http://www.popphoto.com/news/2011/06/sony-firmware-update-brings-peaking-to-nex-3-and-nex-5



Or you can ask ML team to make one for you. ML delivers much faster than Canon and with Canon, you can't be sure that they will do it because they "protect" their video sales.


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## wickidwombat (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Focus Peaking*



verysimplejason said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > I've been comparing the EOS-M to the Sony Nex series and IMHO this is what the EOS-M needs to be competitive, at least if you want to use manual focus lenses via an adapter:
> ...


i would expect ML to come out with something before canon too


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## mrsfotografie (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Focus Peaking*



wickidwombat said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > mrsfotografie said:
> ...



ML to the resque... 8)


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## coutts (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Focus Peaking*



mrsfotografie said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...


today we dumped the firmware and enabled the bootflag on the M. progress can be tracked here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3648.0

I'll get working on the port this weekend when I get some free time


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## wickidwombat (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Focus Peaking*



coutts said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...



Haha you guys are awesome!


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## verysimplejason (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Focus Peaking*



wickidwombat said:


> coutts said:
> 
> 
> > mrsfotografie said:
> ...



Yeah... Pure AWESOMENESS!!!


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

here are some 18mm shots from the 18-55 EFM at various apertures
I was lazy and just had the camera resting on the table not on a tripod in AV +1 EC (it always needs at least +1 EC)


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

f11


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

18-55 EFM @ 24mm various apertures as before


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

18-55 EFM @35mm various apertures


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

EFM 18-55 @55 various apertures


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

EF 16-35 II @16mm various apertures


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

16mm f11


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

16-35 @ 25mm various apertures


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

16-35 25mm f11


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

16-35 @35mm various apertures


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

16-35 @35mm f11


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## wickidwombat (Nov 25, 2012)

Overall the 18-55 seems to control CA and flare quite well even wide open 
This is why i shot this subject like this to test a multitude of things in one hit 
(I was focusing on the middle of the green bear)
sharpness is not bad in the center and improves when stopped down

probably the biggest downside to the 18-55 kit lens is its not a fast focuser and sometimes completely misses
which seems different when compared to the 22mm which seems very snappy and accurate.
and f3.5 to f5.6 is bloody slow especially when you have gotten used to shooting f2.8 zooms and even faster primes
I guess outdoors during the day as a walk around it would be ok however its pretty much a no go for indoors use especially when coupled with the sensor that has a limit somewhere between 1600 iso to 3200 depending on your tolerance levels for noise. 

build is nice though, however realistically I'm not sure i will use this lens much its minimum focus distance of 0.25m is quite long vs the 0.15m on the 22mm and the 22mm is 2 full stops faster at the same focal length

all these shots are unedited raws exported directly from LR4.2 all at iso 100


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## funkboy (Dec 5, 2012)

Somebody send Wombat a test chart & some studio lights, stat!

.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 6, 2012)

funkboy said:


> Somebody send Wombat a test chart & some studio lights, stat!
> 
> .



test charts put me to sleep


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## nickorando (Dec 10, 2012)

Must say I love this little camera. No, it's nowhere near perfect, and yes, AF is pretty dismal - but to be able to fit an EOS into a jacket pocket is fantastic, and to have a really small second body is just great. I've found that leaving AF on continuous generally means it doesn't take too long to find focus using the shutter button - my biggest annoyance is that the focus point keeps getting moved accidentally - and the biggest problem with that is that I can't reassign the down button to DOF preview as a result.


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## coutts (Dec 19, 2012)

anybody try out alpha 1 of magic lantern for their M yet?

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3648.0


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## wickidwombat (Dec 19, 2012)

coutts said:


> anybody try out alpha 1 of magic lantern for their M yet?
> 
> http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3648.0



nah sorry i'm not brave enough, I will wait till a more tested version is available  
but very keen to see it since i think i'll be using the lil M more for video than stills
I think the 18-55 kit lens will be a pretty decent lens for video in good light since its got IS and
decent sharpness and contrast.

by the way do you think its possible to re-enable the 3x digital video zoom from the 600D that never came accross? I noticed on my eos-m box there was a white dot on the feature icons when i removed it
it had the digital zoom icon under the dot, maybe the feature is there just not enabled? wierd?


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## nickorando (Dec 20, 2012)

Yeah, not brave enough either.

Still, got a couple more things to try out - FD and Leica M adaptors.


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