# Who's still hanging in?



## speg (Sep 16, 2020)

Sold some old gear earlier this year and grabbed an M50. I have a little bit of buyer's remorse. Should probably go just bite the bullet and go full frame, especially with the Rp and rumored budget model for next year.

I haven't bought any additional lenses yet, so I'm not invested in EF-M but that will probably have to change by the time holiday season rolls around.

What to do?

I think full frame would do me better due to lots of low light family shots. I'm also not in love with the ergonomics of the M50, it's a bit on the small side and a larger body would suit me better. I'd love one more dial too. Those RF lenses are so dang expensive though!


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## privatebydesign (Sep 16, 2020)

You have to take a system approach not a body approach. What do you need in a body and lenses then work out what it is going to cost to get what you need in RF, then take that number and see if it has that value to you.


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## SteveC (Sep 16, 2020)

speg said:


> I think full frame would do me better due to lots of low light family shots.



This is something I see a lot--claims that full frame is better because it has "more light." I can't make sense of that one; sure more light hits the sensor BUT the sensor is also larger so it's a wash. Unless, of course you're alluding to larger pixel size...which is a whole different argument to get into, and I'll let others do that.


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## Jonathan Thill (Sep 16, 2020)

My pure speculation is that in about 6 months the used market for EOS R and RP plus kit RF glass will see a pretty big price drop. Once the R5 and R6 are shipping in more reliable quantities those that want the speed of the new bodies will be getting those and offloading their R's and RP's and those that were forced to buy the kit of the R5 and R6 will be offloading the kit lens.

All that said to say that I think the entry point for the RF system will be getting a little easier to swallow in the near future.


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## cayenne (Sep 16, 2020)

Ramage said:


> My pure speculation is that in about 6 months the used market for EOS R and RP plus kit RF glass will see a pretty big price drop. Once the R5 and R6 are shipping in more reliable quantities those that want the speed of the new bodies will be getting those and offloading their R's and RP's and those that were forced to buy the kit of the R5 and R6 will be offloading the kit lens.
> 
> All that said to say that I think the entry point for the RF system will be getting a little easier to swallow in the near future.




I agree.
AND...it isn't like you have to jump right in to $$$ RF lenses.....EF lenses are plentiful and eventually will be dropping in price some, so with the EF/RF adapter he could start on a FF body as you suggested and get some good glass (EF) right off to bat and then save up for RF glass, as it becomes somewhat more reasonable over time....

Just my $0.02,

cayenne


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## AlanF (Sep 16, 2020)

SteveC said:


> This is something I see a lot--claims that full frame is better because it has "more light." I can't make sense of that one; sure more light hits the sensor BUT the sensor is also larger so it's a wash. Unless, of course you're alluding to larger pixel size...which is a whole different argument to get into, and I'll let others do that.


If you have the image taking up the whole of, say, an APS-C sensor and of a whole FF sensor and the same f-number lens on each, then what you say is correct for the signal/noise on the sensor. But, when it comes to printing or viewing the image, you have to enlarge the APS-C image 1.6x1.6 more to get the same size final image, and that's where you amplify the noise from the smaller sensor. All the results for S/N, DR etc you see on sites like photonstophotos.net come from enlarging the images to the same final size, which is why APS-C and m4/3 are worse than FF.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 16, 2020)

SteveC said:


> This is something I see a lot--claims that full frame is better because it has "more light." I can't make sense of that one; sure more light hits the sensor BUT the sensor is also larger so it's a wash. Unless, of course you're alluding to larger pixel size...which is a whole different argument to get into, and I'll let others do that.


Steve, I know some people have other thoughts on this article but the truth is it explains the concept of differences between sensor sizes very well, and it seems to me you'd find it interesting.



Equivalence


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## brad-man (Sep 16, 2020)

If you don't mind zooming with your feet, the EF-M 22 f/2 is good and the EF-M 32 f/1.4 is exceptional for low light scenarios. Lots cheaper than going full frame. Not that there's anything wrong with that...


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## SteveC (Sep 17, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Steve, I know some people have other thoughts on this article but the truth is it explains the concept of differences between sensor sizes very well, and it seems to me you'd find it interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Equivalence



Yikes, that's long, too long...so to sum up: who's all wet, me or him?


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## Czardoom (Sep 17, 2020)

speg said:


> Sold some old gear earlier this year and grabbed an M50. I have a little bit of buyer's remorse. Should probably go just bite the bullet and go full frame, especially with the Rp and rumored budget model for next year.
> 
> I haven't bought any additional lenses yet, so I'm not invested in EF-M but that will probably have to change by the time holiday season rolls around.
> 
> ...



If your not a gear-head and are mainly interested in getting good shots - especially family shots, then there a lot of really inexpensive used Canon lenses out there. Some are older and don't have IS, but for less than $150 you can get a Canon 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 or Canon 28-105 f/3.5-4.5. I've owned them both and they work just fine. Even used copies of the EF 24-105mm 3.5-5.6 IS STM can be bought for around $300, and the EF 24-105mm f/4 IS for around $450 on Ebay. With the RP (or any R series camera) you'll need the adapter, of course, but there are a lot of really good lens choices out there from over 30 years of EF lens design. Once you have the adapter (hard to come by at the moment) you'll find there is little reason to spend a lot for new RF lenses.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 17, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Yikes, that's long, too long...so to sum up: who's all wet, me or him?


It's long but comprehensive article and the opening section and the fact you can jump from one section to another make it a good read.

Summary, you are wrong, he and AlanF are right.


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## PCM-madison (Sep 17, 2020)

I really wanted to embrace the EOS M system. I do lots of things where small and light is good (hiking, backpacking, etc). I bought the original M. I found it lacking as an everyday camera is several respects. I converted it to IR, and it serves that niche well for me currently. I also got the M5. It was much improved over the original M, but still lacking in many respects. I still own it but use it rarely. My everyday camera remains a Canon Full Frame DSLR. It just does so many things I need extremely well. I bought an RP as a travel camera. I am very happy with it, and it is much more satisfying than my M system cameras have been. It's not quite compelling enough for me to abandon my DSLR for day to day needs. From what I've read, the R5 could probably get me to give up my DSLR, but the cost is pretty daunting. Photo is Morgan Falls from a backpacking trip where my only camera and lens were the RP + RF 24-240 IS.


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## SteveC (Sep 17, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> It's long but comprehensive article and the opening section and the fact you can jump from one section to another make it a good read.
> 
> Summary, you are wrong, he and AlanF are right.



Fair enough, thanks!


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## YuengLinger (Sep 17, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Steve, I know some people have other thoughts on this article but the truth is it explains the concept of differences between sensor sizes very well, and it seems to me you'd find it interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Equivalence


I get a malware warning with this link...


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## koenkooi (Sep 17, 2020)

speg said:


> Sold some old gear earlier this year and grabbed an M50. I have a little bit of buyer's remorse. Should probably go just bite the bullet and go full frame, especially with the Rp and rumored budget model for next year.
> 
> I haven't bought any additional lenses yet, so I'm not invested in EF-M but that will probably have to change by the time holiday season rolls around.
> 
> ...



It's hard to beat the EF-M 32mm f/1.4 and EF-M 22mm f/2 for low light family shots, the downside of the M50 is that it doesn't allow eye-AF in servo mode.
I have both the M6II and RP, M6II gets used the most for family pics, since its AF can track my 2yo and 4yo, the RP needs to have a good day to track them. I replaced my M50 with the M6II because I loathed the EVF and wanted eye-AF in servo. I do miss the tilty-flippy screen!


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## Frodo (Sep 21, 2020)

I bought the M3 plus 11-22 and 55-200 for a strenuous 4 week hike through the Swiss Alps. Very happy with the compromise for reduced weight. I've just sold the camera, three lenses (plus 18-55mm) and EF adapter. Since I got the R, I hardly use the M3.


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## speg (Sep 21, 2020)

Good input all around. One thing I forgot to mention is the possibility of telephoto lenses in the future for kids soccer and baseball games or whatnot.

I think what I will do is this: get the adapter so I can use my nifty fifty that I held onto, as well another new EF lens to get me through the holiday season. Then if I do decide to go full frame next product cycle, at least I'll be able to bring the EF lenses over.


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## overniven (Sep 23, 2020)

I've really enjoyed my EF 70-200 F4 L. It's relatively cheap, and works fine on both my RP and my M5.
It gets used a lot for softball games.


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## canonmike (Oct 11, 2020)

Ramage said:


> My pure speculation is that in about 6 months the used market for EOS R and RP plus kit RF glass will see a pretty big price drop. Once the R5 and R6 are shipping in more reliable quantities those that want the speed of the new bodies will be getting those and offloading their R's and RP's and those that were forced to buy the kit of the R5 and R6 will be offloading the kit lens.
> 
> All that said to say that I think the entry point for the RF system will be getting a little easier to swallow in the near future.


Just hope we see some RF lens Black Friday promos this yr. You know, the annual promo that makes it impossible to keep your credit card in your wallet. Are you listening B&H, Adorama et all???? We all know it will be some time before we see any substantial price concessions on the R5 or R6 but holiday season this year just might afford an opportunity to pick up some R and RP bodies, along with RF glass at reasonable prices. Just hope my credit cards don't overheat when filling up the cart with the latter.


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## Rocky (Oct 13, 2020)

I am hanging in with the M system (M50, M and M2)and 4 EF-M lenses. They are good enough for me. It is a good compromise for performance, size, weight and cost. Also it hold up very well, even in rain and snow. The M and the M2 actually survived a few drop on the ground. Hope more good EF-M lenses will come with the M50 II. We do need more good lens for the 32.5M sensor.


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## Linteria (Dec 9, 2020)

Rocky said:


> I am hanging in with the M system (M50, M and M2)and 4 EF-M lenses. They are good enough for me. It is a good compromise for performance, size, weight and cost. Also it hold up very well, even in rain and snow. The M and the M2 actually survived a few drop on the ground. Hope more good EF-M lenses will come with the M50 II. We do need more good lens for the 32.5M sensor.


I'm sure you know that neither of your cameras has a 32.5MP sensor. But thanks for thinking of us M6ii owners!

I'm very much hanging in there with the EF-M mount. Loving my M6ii so much 3 months in, it's such a great camera in a super compact package. The portability and quality of the Canon lenses and even 3rd party glass have really provided me an experience that has exceeded all my expectations.

I'm even considering buying an original M6 as a b-cam. My girl has an M50, great camera, but the M6 has the same sensor (albeit with a Digic 7 and without eye AF/4K) while giving me all the dials i'm used to, and goes for sub-400 used. Since i mainly shoot stills, i want to be able to swap cameras in the wild with my two most used lenses on, rather than twisting lenses on/off all the time. Also, multi-cam setups for videos would be lovely. Can anyone speak on the M6 before i give eBay my money?

Anyhoo, i'm here for the long haul with EF-M.


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## grantmasterflash (Dec 10, 2020)

I will move up from the M6 to the M6 Mark II. I have the Canon 22 f/2, 32 f1.4, 18-150 and will be picking up the Sigma 56 1.4 and maybe a Canon 85 1.8 adapted. I'm still looking for a wide angle that isn't giant. 

This system will take care of my needs for years. *IF* Canon decides to make a small M6-like full frame then I MAY consider it. The lenses will still be large like EF lenses, the body will still be larger than EOS-M because the mount is etc... 

If Canon doesn't make a small FF and my M6 Mark II dies I'll go to Fuji, their new X-S line looks like it has a good future.


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## SteveC (Dec 11, 2020)

grantmasterflash said:


> This system will take care of my needs for years. *IF* Canon decides to make a small M6-like full frame then I MAY consider it. The lenses will still be large like EF lenses, the body will still be larger than EOS-M because the mount is etc...



I can't see them doing that because every EF-M lens out there would instantly become a "crop mode only" lens on the new camera.

The EF 85mm f/1.8 (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about adapting) is probably my favorite prime (after my 100mm non-L macro), and is certainly the one I've used most often (again with the exception of macro on my 100mm) but then I don't get into expensive primes so perhaps my standards are low.


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## grantmasterflash (Dec 11, 2020)

SteveC said:


> The EF 85mm f/1.8 (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about adapting) is probably my favorite prime (after my 100mm non-L macro), and is certainly the one I've used most often (again with the exception of macro on my 100mm) but then I don't get into expensive primes so perhaps my standards are low.



The 85mm f/1.8 is a pretty good deal. One of the youtube reviewers didn't like it on the m50 though and sent it back. That gives me pause. I'll buy it anyway and test it.


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## koenkooi (Dec 11, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I can't see them doing that because every EF-M lens out there would instantly become a "crop mode only" lens on the new camera.
> 
> The EF 85mm f/1.8 (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about adapting) is probably my favorite prime (after my 100mm non-L macro), and is certainly the one I've used most often (again with the exception of macro on my 100mm) but then I don't get into expensive primes so perhaps my standards are low.



I find it's too 'long' on my M, I like the Sigma 56mm better for portraits. With the 85mm on a crop camera I run out of space indoors a bit too often. When I do have enough room to manouver the results with the EF85 are great, especially with DLO enabled and stopped down to f/2.0 or f/2.5.


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## grantmasterflash (Dec 11, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I find it's too 'long' on my M, I like the Sigma 56mm better for portraits. With the 85mm on a crop camera I run out of space indoors a bit too often. When I do have enough room to manouver the results with the EF85 are great, especially with DLO enabled and stopped down to f/2.0 or f/2.5.



I worry about this too. Not good indoors and not long enough outdoors. It's cheap enough for me to play with it though. I have the 18-150 on it's way but it's a fairly dark lens so it would be nice to have something bright with more reach. Maybe I should be going for the 100mm.


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## stevelee (Dec 12, 2020)

I used the 50mm f/1.4 on my Rebel for portraits since its field of view was the same as an 80mm on FF. Some photographers like 135mm for portraits, which is about what you get with the 85 on an M.


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## phile (Feb 7, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> It's hard to beat the EF-M 32mm f/1.4 and EF-M 22mm f/2 for low light family shots, the downside of the M50 is that it doesn't allow eye-AF in servo mode.
> I have both the M6II and RP, M6II gets used the most for family pics, since its AF can track my 2yo and 4yo, the RP needs to have a good day to track them. I replaced my M50 with the M6II because I loathed the EVF and wanted eye-AF in servo. I do miss the tilty-flippy screen!


For your M6II, you can get a tilty EVF.


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## SteveC (Feb 7, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> It's hard to beat the EF-M 32mm f/1.4 and EF-M 22mm f/2 for low light family shots, the downside of the M50 is that it doesn't allow eye-AF in servo mode.
> I have both the M6II and RP, M6II gets used the most for family pics, since its AF can track my 2yo and 4yo, the RP needs to have a good day to track them. I replaced my M50 with the M6II because I loathed the EVF and wanted eye-AF in servo. I do miss the tilty-flippy screen!



That's the major shortcoming of the M6-II in my opinion. I just stuck a viewfinder on it and called it good. I'd feel differently if I ever used an external flash, though! Perhaps someone will come out with an attachable viewfinder with a shoe on top of it. Or better yet, an M5-II.

(The inborn smartass in me hastens to add, "and I don't mean the M5 Mark II from Olympus.")


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## koenkooi (Feb 8, 2021)

SteveC said:


> That's the major shortcoming of the M6-II in my opinion. I just stuck a viewfinder on it and called it good. I'd feel differently if I ever used an external flash, though! Perhaps someone will come out with an attachable viewfinder with a shoe on top of it. Or better yet, an M5-II.
> 
> (The inborn smartass in me hastens to add, "and I don't mean the M5 Mark II from Olympus.")





phile said:


> For your M6II, you can get a tilty EVF.



I have the EVF-DC2 instead of the tilty DC1 for the M6II, it's useful in the field with long lenses, like the 180mm macro. For family snaps it gets in the way and it works as catnip on my 4yo, she will confiscate the camera and keep looking through the EVF


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## Del Paso (Feb 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Steve, I know some people have other thoughts on this article but the truth is it explains the concept of differences between sensor sizes very well, and it seems to me you'd find it interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Equivalence


Thanks for posting "equivalence".
Very very very helpful !


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## stevelee (Feb 8, 2021)

YuengLinger said:


> I get a malware warning with this link...


Danger! It might make you think.

The bottom line for me is that is no such thing as equivalence. A 50mm lens will remain a 50mm lens, unless you add a teleconverter or something. On a Rebel it will make a nice portrait lens because it puts you about the same distance from the subject that you would be with an 80mm lens on a FF camera. But the depth of field at f/1.8 is going to be very different with the two lenses and cameras.

But it is useful colloquially to refer to focal length equivalence when considering different sensor sizes. Some of the other considerations, while scientifically valid, don't seem to have much practical use for someone just wanting to take good pictures and have some control over the process. Pixel density can come into play when you plan to crop severely. So if you are shooting an eagle soaring overhead, you might want to use a dense crop sensor rather than cropping more a less dense full frame shot. If low-light noise is more of a consideration, then you might choose the opposite. It is a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.

The least useful equivalence arguments to me seem to be the ones where f/4 on one sensor is f/8.379 on another. Try to convince the light meter of that.


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## Del Paso (Feb 8, 2021)

overniven said:


> I've really enjoyed my EF 70-200 F4 L. It's relatively cheap, and works fine on both my RP and my M5.
> It gets used a lot for softball games.


I had it too, before I got the IS II version (only reason is that I needed IS).
The 70/200 F4 L certainly represents the best value for money in the entire Canon lens-program.
Light, sharp and well built, a really great lens, even with Extender 1,4X!


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## SteveC (Feb 8, 2021)

stevelee said:


> The least useful equivalence arguments to me seem to be the ones where f/4 on one sensor is f/8.379 on another. Try to convince the light meter of that.



I suspect in that case they're talking apparent depth of field after you frame the two shots "the same" (perspective will differ) on both lenses by using sneaker zoom. Your light meter is thinking of other things and rightly so.


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## stevelee (Feb 9, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I suspect in that case they're talking apparent depth of field after you frame the two shots "the same" (perspective will differ) on both lenses by using sneaker zoom. Your light meter is thinking of other things and rightly so.


It has something to do with the total light falling on the sensor. I think I understood it once upon a time, but haven’t bothered to remember since I saw no practical value to me in taking pictures. It comes in handy in some arcane arguments I am not interested in. But, yes, there is also as you say, an equivalent depth of field, so that f/1.8 on a 50mm lens is going to be the DOF equivalent of some smaller opening on an 85mm, but in terms of exposure, f/1.8 is more or less the same on both lenses (ignoring difference in transmission).


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## Joules (Feb 9, 2021)

stevelee said:


> The bottom line for me is that is no such thing as equivalence. A 50mm lens will remain a 50mm lens, unless you add a teleconverter


Adding a 2X TC to a 50 mm lens will result in an identical image as shooting just the lens and cropping it in half vertically and horizontally, or shooting with a 2X crop factor body. To get the same framing (FoV) in each, all these must be taken at the same distance to the subject, which also ensures identical perspective. As the TC darkens the image, it has to be shot with a 2X higher ISO so that they all look the same.

What makes the TC special to you, when they all ultimately result in the same image? How are the others not equivalent of the result is the only thing that is compared?



stevelee said:


> But it is useful colloquially to refer to focal length equivalence when considering different sensor sizes. Some of the other considerations, while scientifically valid, don't seem to have much practical use for someone just wanting to take good pictures and have some control over the process.


It is useful to understand that 35 mm 1.4 on MFT and 70 mm 2.8 on FF will produce identical images for example, so that you can focus on other relevant aspects of the comparison such as size, price and ergonomics.

Or when you want to compare using an EF 100-400mm 5.6 and cropping vs the RF 100-500 mm 7.1 without the crop. People could get the impression that a 7.1 aperture on the long end is a downgrade when in fact it is practically the same as 400 5.6 cropped to 500 mm (500/400*5.6 = 7). 

I still have to finish the missing pieces, but I have put together a more visual comparison of this stuff in the past, if you have doubts in my reasoning: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/equivalency-now-with-pictures.39787/


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## stevelee (Feb 9, 2021)

Joules said:


> What makes the TC special to you, when they all ultimately result in the same image? How are the others not equivalent of the result is the only thing that is compared?


I don't own a TC, and I certainly wouldn't use one with a 50mm lens, since I have other lenses. I just threw that comment in as an example of when a 50mm lens no longer has a 50mm focal length, an exception to the point I was making, to save others from having to say, "But what about if you . . ."


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## Joules (Feb 9, 2021)

stevelee said:


> I don't own a TC, and I certainly wouldn't use one with a 50mm lens, since I have other lenses. I just threw that comment in as an example of when a 50mm lens no longer has a 50mm focal length, an exception to the point I was making, to save others from having to say, "But what about if you . . ."


The point of equivalence isn't about what the actual physical focal length is, but what the images look like. So I don't get the point of calling using a TC as being equivalent to using a longer lens, but not acknowledging that cropping or using a cropped sensor for example produce the same result. 

Not thinking about cropping, zooming, using a TC and so on as the same thing just makes life more difficult than it has to be.


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## ReflexVE (Feb 10, 2021)

I got my M50 in Nov of 2018. For the first six months I didn't know what to do with it, but I ended up discovering I enjoyed portrait, street and protest photography and I did a LOT of that. I had two zooms and three primes and was learning to use them all. By mid-2020 I wanted to do more than was easily doable on it, especially with a single dial. I was hoping for a M50 Mk II or M60 that would give me a more modern featureset and greater control. When the actual Mk II hit I realized the M system really didn't have much of an upgrade experience for people who had graduated from the entry level. I did not want to go with the RF mount, the cameras were just too big and the lenses too big and expensive to meet my primary requirement: it must be no big deal to carry it 95% of the time, if it's inconvenient I won't have it with me and I won't grow my skills.

Then Fuji announced the X-S10. I'd been following Fuji for months after a friend tipped me off that they were taking APS-C seriously, not just as a cheap option for beginners. After the first month of reviews came out I took the plunge and sold my M50 kit to a friend, using the money to reinvest in the X-S10 and equivalent lenses. The downsides were immediate: AF is not as reliable and more complicated to use. The apps are not great. But the advantages outweighed them (for me). Much, much larger lens selection. Modern features like IBIS. Many more options for direct control. Plus free access to Capture One.

I'm still getting used to it. I miss the simplicity of my M50, but in the end I have no regrets. I hope at some point Canon addresses that 'middle' market of users who started in the M cameras but outgrow them without forcing them into RF, at least as it stands today. I'm unlikely to ever find a system that large and expensive desirable, I'm not making money with my photos. It's a hobby for me, and I don't feel hobbyists are well served by Canon at the moment.


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## 3210123 (Feb 23, 2021)

brad-man said:


> If you don't mind zooming with your feet, the EF-M 22 f/2 is good and the EF-M 32 f/1.4 is exceptional for low light scenarios. Lots cheaper than going full frame. Not that there's anything wrong with that...


And the Sigma 56mm f/1.4 is IMHO even better than either of those great lenses!


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## 3210123 (Feb 23, 2021)

3210123 said:


> And the Sigma 56mm f/1.4 is IMHO even better than either of those great lenses!


That's why I those three are the main lenses on my excellent M6 markII.


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## HaroldC3 (Mar 12, 2021)

Had been an M series owner for many years. My last M was the M6 which I owned for 3 years. I am primarily a landscape photographer and the M6 worked great but it was time to move on. I had tried the EOS R system but was spoiled by the small size and great IQ of the M6. So I tried Fuji. My setup seems to be a good size and weight for me. Pretty much in between an R setup and M6 setup. I have been with Fuji for 7 months now and the main thing I dislike is the premium pricing. I have spent about 3x as much as my M6 setup on Fuji but I gotta say it is a great system.
I have no regrets moving on but wish those who stay all the best.

My setup.
Fuji XT-3
Fuji 10-24 f4 
Fuji 16-80 f4
Fuji 55-200 3.8-4.5
Fuji 70-300 (arriving today, will probably sell the 55-200 after using side by side)


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## chrislambert (Jun 1, 2021)

I sold my M5 because I'm really interested in the features available on the M6ii especially after having used the R6 in comparison, but I'm wondering if Canon will release an M5ii with similar or better features? Also, the Sigma 16mm 1.4 and 56mm 1.4 EFM lenses look very interesting as a low-light combo. I currently have the Canon 22mm and 32m primes but I'd like to get a little wider and more telephoto which those 2 would accomplish.


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## ReflexVE (Jun 1, 2021)

chrislambert said:


> I sold my M5 because I'm really interested in the features available on the M6ii especially after having used the R6 in comparison, but I'm wondering if Canon will release an M5ii with similar or better features? Also, the Sigma 16mm 1.4 and 56mm 1.4 EFM lenses look very interesting as a low-light combo. I currently have the Canon 22mm and 32m primes but I'd like to get a little wider and more telephoto which those 2 would accomplish.


Those are excellent lenses, hoping Sigma comes to Fuji since I moved on, I miss the 16mm I had with my M50.


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## LSXPhotog (Jun 3, 2021)

I recently sold my M6 Mark II and kept my M5 and 11-22mm, 15-45mm, 22mm, 32mm, and Sigma 16mm/56mm lenses. I personally think the M5 is still a very good camera, albeit very slow to use at times, but everything’s there that I need when taking it around for daily use, fun, and vacations. However, I very quickly grew to miss the speed and responsiveness of the M6 Mark II and decided to pick another one up. This time, it’s for good. I think the M5 and M6 Mark II are very clearly the best cameras from the system and they are fantastic enough….I hope they will one day make an M5 Mark II, but until then, I have a pretty great combination right now that serves me. I just need to stop convincing myself to sell these cameras.


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## Linteria (Jun 19, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> I recently sold my M6 Mark II and kept my M5 and 11-22mm, 15-45mm, 22mm, 32mm, and Sigma 16mm/56mm lenses. I personally think the M5 is still a very good camera, albeit very slow to use at times, but everything’s there that I need when taking it around for daily use, fun, and vacations. However, I very quickly grew to miss the speed and responsiveness of the M6 Mark II and decided to pick another one up. This time, it’s for good. I think the M5 and M6 Mark II are very clearly the best cameras from the system and they are fantastic enough….I hope they will one day make an M5 Mark II, but until then, I have a pretty great combination right now that serves me. I just need to stop convincing myself to sell these cameras.


Totally agree on that front. I'm always changing my opinion on which i think is better btw my M5 and M6ii. Easily the best two cameras in the system. I'd prob put the M200 third, even though that and the M3 (worst M camera) are the only two Ms which i don't have. Just recently i got over my honeymoon with the 5 after buying it earlier this year. I love it, it's such a better camera than the M50.

I really appreciate what the 50 has done for mirrorless cameras and content creation, but after owning the 5 i finally get why everyone always says they want the 5ii. It is near perfect for serious shooting and needs a proper update. Best screen out of all the Ms as well, largest and highest res. All the controls of, and similar screen articulation to, the 6ii without sacrificing the built-in EVF of the 50 (i came into the system backwards, lol). It even has touch and drag AF – the original M6 can't even do that when you attach the EVF, and it came out the following year!  *cue cripple hammer*

Yet here i am once again going back to my first born, the 6ii. Ppl like to diss the removable EVF, but as a lover of all things tiny and compact, especially my cam bags, i think the feature is a premium one. Once the EVF is on, it's awesome to use. The only downside is that when it's on the camera it doesn't inspire as much confidence to throw around or into a bag, unlike the ruggedness of a built-in EVF. And as you said, the speed and responsive of the 6ii is just unparalleled. The sensor as well, a monster in such a tiny little package.

Having bought and used most of the Ms this year has really made me appreciate my original purchase even more. Only the 5 has nearly matched its talents. But bring on that 5ii already!


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## SteveC (Jun 20, 2021)

Linteria said:


> Totally agree on that front. I'm always changing my opinion on which i think is better btw my M5 and M6ii. Easily the best two cameras in the system. I'd prob put the M200 third, even though that and the M3 (worst M camera) are the only two Ms which i don't have. Just recently i got over my honeymoon with the 5 after buying it earlier this year. I love it, it's such a better camera than the M50.
> 
> I really appreciate what the 50 has done for mirrorless cameras and content creation, but after owning the 5 i finally get why everyone always says they want the 5ii. It is near perfect for serious shooting and needs a proper update. Best screen out of all the Ms as well, largest and highest res. All the controls of, and similar screen articulation to, the 6ii without sacrificing the built-in EVF of the 50 (i came into the system backwards, lol). It even has touch and drag AF – the original M6 can't even do that when you attach the EVF, and it came out the following year!  *cue cripple hammer*
> 
> ...


I don't disagree about the 5ii.

I waited a while on the M6ii because I was hoping they'd announce a 5ii. More control dials and a reversable screen. The removable EVF doesn't matter one way or the other to me, but some day I suppose I might want to put something else in the hot shoe.


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## shadow (Oct 25, 2022)

I like my M50, but not committed to the line, and seeing above comments on M5 I noticed it still is listed for sale, (except uses the R10 battery, so can't used my M50 batteries on it), seems close in many specs to M50 though (4k doesn't matter to me) and has dedicated exposure compensation knob. Curious, I just wanted to see if 2 years later now if anyone from this thread has changed their mind on the M series and switching to the R system instead or bought an R10 or Sony? $100 off sale on 32mm F1.4 lens now and $179 for 22mm pancake. Or, anyone waiting for R100?


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## ReflexVE (Oct 25, 2022)

shadow said:


> I like my M50, but not committed to the line, and seeing above comments on M5 I noticed it still is listed for sale, (except uses the R10 battery, so can't used my M50 batteries on it), seems close in many specs to M50 though (4k doesn't matter to me) and has dedicated exposure compensation knob. Curious, I just wanted to see if 2 years later now if anyone from this thread has changed their mind on the M series and switching to the R system instead or bought an R10 or Sony? $100 off sale on 32mm F1.4 lens now and $179 for 22mm pancake. Or, anyone waiting for R100?


I gave up on Canon, honestly. I loved my M50 but obviously they never gave me a clear upgrade. Winter 2020 I went with a Fuji X-S10 which had a full and high quality lens lineup. I just upgraded it to a X-H2S and it's phenomenal. The launch of the R10 & R7 confirmed I made the right call, the lens lineup is weak and they are blocking quality third party options. The features are at this point behind the competition at the same price points. They are fine for what they are, and for a couple of niches, say birding, the R7 is as good as it gets. But for a more generalist like me they don't fit and Fuji delivers more for the money.

I'll be sticking with the H2S for several years at least, when it gets long in the tooth I'll re-evaluate and see if Canon has filled out the lens lineup and made competitive bodies. I loved my M50 and I have nothing against the company but I'm not a valued customer for them so I moved on. Maybe they'll value me again in the future.


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## LSXPhotog (Oct 25, 2022)

ReflexVE said:


> I gave up on Canon, honestly. I loved my M50 but obviously they never gave me a clear upgrade. Winter 2020 I went with a Fuji X-S10 which had a full and high quality lens lineup. I just upgraded it to a X-H2S and it's phenomenal. The launch of the R10 & R7 confirmed I made the right call, the lens lineup is weak and they are blocking quality third party options. The features are at this point behind the competition at the same price points. They are fine for what they are, and for a couple of niches, say birding, the R7 is as good as it gets. But for a more generalist like me they don't fit and Fuji delivers more for the money.
> 
> I'll be sticking with the H2S for several years at least, when it gets long in the tooth I'll re-evaluate and see if Canon has filled out the lens lineup and made competitive bodies. I loved my M50 and I have nothing against the company but I'm not a valued customer for them so I moved on. Maybe they'll value me again in the future.


I switched my APS-C kit to Fuji in 2020 and I haven't looked back once. It has been incredibly rewarding and fun to use. The lens options are easily the most developed and highest quality of any APS-C lineup. The sensors are tremendous and now the autofocus is finally good at tracking things with the X-H2S...my X-T4 was pretty bad at autofocus. But the best example is look at the M5 and how much it cost...then look at the X-T30 and how much it costs. You're getting a significantly better build and more capable camera for the money. I love my Canon gear for work...but I'll be damed if I'm not reaching for the Fuji stuff almost every day and bringing it with me on shoots now.


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## ReflexVE (Oct 25, 2022)

LSXPhotog said:


> I switched my APS-C kit to Fuji in 2020 and I haven't looked back once. It has been incredibly rewarding and fun to use. The lens options are easily the most developed and highest quality of any APS-C lineup. The sensors are tremendous and now the autofocus is finally good at tracking things with the X-H2S...my X-T4 was pretty bad at autofocus. But the best example is look at the M5 and how much it cost...then look at the X-T30 and how much it costs. You're getting a significantly better build and more capable camera for the money. I love my Canon gear for work...but I'll be damed if I'm not reaching for the Fuji stuff almost every day and bringing it with me on shoots now.


Yeah, I have no anger or anything towards Canon. The M50 was a fantastic gateway drug. But they never built a mid-range to 'graduate' to and finally started over with the RF mount options. Meanwhile I can use a system that has higher quality output, a far more advanced lens selection and costs less money for more features (especially pro features). I'm there.

I'll check Canon when I actually get my money's worth out of the H2S.

Edit: I just got the new XF18mmF1.4 and can't wait to take it out for a spin. The 33 is next in line...


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## shadow (Oct 25, 2022)

Unfortunately, I really have no distribution or support for Fuji where I am or really for anything but Canon, Sony and Nikon cameras so I cannot even try one out. I bought the Sony A6400 and 3 lens for it but the menu's make it a pain to use, and had a strange color issue compared side by side with M50 (Shooting a purple rose flower, the 6400 was a dark blue, but smartphone and M50 both were purple! and accurate within reason to my eye. I had to change the default to "shade" setting as I had mixed natural and LED light. I have never seen that with in any other camera in Auto, 1000's of hours of Sony camcorder uses, I have sold CCD cameras and lens years past so it's not like I a newbie. I showed the image to two camera store "experts" and got nothing but shrugged shoulders!). I need to do simultaneous HD video on 2 cameras, so I now don't trust the A6400. The M50 touch screen and fully articulation really I like much better. Only reason got into Sony was local distribution and all the lens support, I have owned so many Canon cameras, so other than video cameras, I never owned Sony SLR or hybrid products. I waited and was ready to buy but just changed my mind on the R10 reading the 3rd party lens ban article here on the forum when they got the R10 into stock here, as I don't see the RF-S inexpensive lenses yet... except the 50mm and 16mm. Same with Nikon, low lens inventory here. But, it appears I need to make a decision as I don't want to have mess around with color problems between (2) different camera and lens systems.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

Still in. I bought an M6II a couple of months ago. I have all of the EF-M lenses already. Actually, I have two of the EF-M 15-45 since I bought the M6II as a kit with the lens and EVF, at the Amazon Prime Day price that meant getting the lens and EVF for $80. 

Having three standard zooms works well because on family trips now, I can use the M6II and my two older kids can use the M6 and M2.


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## docsmith (Oct 26, 2022)

Congrats. M6II is a great little camera. I still have mine.


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## LSXPhotog (Oct 26, 2022)

ReflexVE said:


> Yeah, I have no anger or anything towards Canon. The M50 was a fantastic gateway drug. But they never built a mid-range to 'graduate' to and finally started over with the RF mount options. Meanwhile I can use a system that has higher quality output, a far more advanced lens selection and costs less money for more features (especially pro features). I'm there.
> 
> I'll check Canon when I actually get my money's worth out of the H2S.
> 
> Edit: I just got the new XF18mmF1.4 and can't wait to take it out for a spin. The 33 is next in line...


Not sure if you saw this, but Fuji just announced a price increase starting November 1st for many of their lenses. This includes the XF33mm, sadly. The XF18mm f/1.4 was also my next lens. After learning about the price hike impacting it as well, I decided to not wait for a potential Black Friday sale as I was planning for. Today I pulled the trigger on it. I also got to check it out in person at B&H this week.

The 33mm was a shocking lens for me. I had (still have, actually) the XF35mm and found it to basically be a modern day vintage lens with autofocus. Beautiful character and rendering, but not without its flaws and shortcomings. I still love it and have a hard time convincing myself to sell it. (I have way too many lenses and cameras at this point, but I somehow manage to use everything pretty regularly.) Enter the 33mm f/1.4; It’s essentially a compact fully professional 50mm f/1.8 full-frame equivalent lens that we’ll never see from Canon. To me, that makes it the perfect travel 50mm. 

I consider Fuji to be the absolute best “Professional travel and street photography cameras”. If you want a quality camera to travel with, I don’t believe you can ask for or find anything better.


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## LSXPhotog (Oct 26, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Still in. I bought an M6II a couple of months ago. I have all of the EF-M lenses already. Actually, I have two of the EF-M 15-45 since I bought the M6II as a kit with the lens and EVF, at the Amazon Prime Day price that meant getting the lens and EVF for $80.
> 
> Having three standard zooms works well because on family trips now, I can use the M6II and my two older kids can use the M6 and M2.


That deal was way too good! Glad you scooped one up. I was actually considering it myself because it was selling for CHEAPER than I sold mine for used! Haha


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## ReflexVE (Oct 26, 2022)

LSXPhotog said:


> Not sure if you saw this, but Fuji just announced a price increase starting November 1st for many of their lenses. This includes the XF33mm, sadly. The XF18mm f/1.4 was also my next lens. After learning about the price hike impacting it as well, I decided to not wait for a potential Black Friday sale as I was planning for. Today I pulled the trigger on it. I also got to check it out in person at B&H this week.
> 
> The 33mm was a shocking lens for me. I had (still have, actually) the XF35mm and found it to basically be a modern day vintage lens with autofocus. Beautiful character and rendering, but not without its flaws and shortcomings. I still love it and have a hard time convincing myself to sell it. (I have way too many lenses and cameras at this point, but I somehow manage to use everything pretty regularly.) Enter the 33mm f/1.4; It’s essentially a compact fully professional 50mm f/1.8 full-frame equivalent lens that we’ll never see from Canon. To me, that makes it the perfect travel 50mm.
> 
> I consider Fuji to be the absolute best “Professional travel and street photography cameras”. If you want a quality camera to travel with, I don’t believe you can ask for or find anything better.


I managed to grab the 18 for 789 euros last weekend. A friend in Italy pointed out to me that a local shop had run a 20% discount and Amazon automatically matched it, so I pulled the trigger. Watching for a deal on the 33, but likely to pull the trigger this week to avoid the price increase. 

BTW, do *not* sleep on Viltrox. Can't believe Canon shot themselves in the foot on them. Viltrox is making some seriously competitive lenses now, I absolutely love my 13mm f/1.4 and I'm looking forward to the upcoming 75mm f/1.2. The 85mm is a great budget alternative to the XF 90mm (although I managed to pick one of those up for a good price and sold my 85).

In my opinion Fuji is the natural upgrade for M mount shooters.


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## Doormat (Nov 3, 2022)

I have absolutely no intention of selling any of mine. Love it. I recently went out with the M6ii, caged, fitted with the EF 70-300 IS ii nano…
Superb, compared it to the 55-250 stm and 70-300L. I’m happy with all 3 but the nano is fast (so damn fast) and being black as opposed to the white 70-300L far more discreet when out with family. Still have my 5diii/6Dii both rarely see use but holding onto them as I still like both. 
I’ve accepted the M will be discontinued, just makes me more determined to keep mine and pick up a extra body or two. 

Will never opt for the R7/10 
If I go R it’s the 5 or above.


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## koenkooi (Nov 3, 2022)

Doormat said:


> I have absolutely no intention of selling any of mine. Love it. I recently went out with the M6ii, caged, fitted with the EF 70-300 IS ii nano…
> Superb, compared it to the 55-250 stm and 70-300L. I’m happy with all 3 but the nano is fast (so damn fast) and being black as opposed to the white 70-300L far more discreet when out with family. Still have my 5diii/6Dii both rarely see use but holding onto them as I still like both.
> I’ve accepted the M will be discontinued, just makes me more determined to keep mine and pick up a extra body or two.
> 
> ...


I rented an R7 to take on vacation, so I had R5/R7/M6II and while the R7 performed great, I didn't like that it was significantly smaller than the R5 as well as being significantly larger than the M6II. My pinky slipped out when using big lenses and it wouldn't fit in smaller compartments like my M6II.

So I still like the M6II very much and will keep using it


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## SteveC (Nov 3, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I rented an R7 to take on vacation, so I had R5/R7/M6II and while the R7 performed great, I didn't like that it was significantly smaller than the R5 as well as being significantly larger than the M6II. My pinky slipped out when using big lenses and it wouldn't fit in smaller compartments like my M6II.
> 
> So I still like the M6II very much and will keep using it



I suppose your situation can be likened to owning a sportscar for running around town and maybe road trips, and a big pickup for snowy days or days you have to haul a lot more than just a couple of bags of groceries. Something in between will do both jobs, but not as well. (But if you can only afford one car...)


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## koenkooi (Nov 3, 2022)

SteveC said:


> I suppose your situation can be likened to owning a sportscar for running around town and maybe road trips, and a big pickup for snowy days or days you have to haul a lot more than just a couple of bags of groceries. Something in between will do both jobs, but not as well. (But if you can only afford one car...)


Yes, very much first world type problems


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## Doormat (Nov 4, 2022)

For me, the M system is just perfect. I can slip a M100 + 22 in my jacket and get awesome candids, or I can mount my 70-300is ii on my M6ii and track my son playing football. 
I own a lot of canon gear, last count 96 canon lenses and 22 canon bodies, at least a dozen speedlites, adapters, converters, speedboosters, etc etc
It’s all pretty much interchangeable. I’m always experimenting with different combinations. Then I have my iPhone too.
I really don’t need to go R
My flappers and M system is more than I could ever have dreamed of. 

For some reason the R hasn’t inspired me one iota. Maybe it’s the way canon has forced it upon us, removed all the alternatives. I don’t care much for that strategy, just makes me dig my heels in deeper. Lol


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## SteveC (Nov 4, 2022)

Let me put it this way. I own an R5. I own an M6-II.

I almost invariably reach for the M6-II.


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## shadow (Nov 5, 2022)

I happily shopping for M lens before they disappear (?), I just keep seeing "closeout" everywhere I look on M lens, right now looking at the Rokinon 85mm 
f/1.4 Series II Lens for Canon EOS M. Not sure if best to get M or EF version to use with my Canon Ef to ef-m adapter. I might be forced into R eventually.


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## ryanbird (Nov 6, 2022)

i hope Canon will recreate the eos m line to maybe vlogging camera or beginner camera. just dont stop it. Canon is not capable in making competitive camera in these segments, terrible in size, range of lens, and price. Eos -M is the way out.


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## Rockskipper (Nov 6, 2022)

I have my old M5 and a bunch of M lenses and it's my go-to for about everything. I LOVE that system. Sold my 6DII and also have an RP, but prefer the M5. Had an R6 but sold it, also the R100-500 lens. Just didn't like carrying them as well.I like the way the camera is so unobtrusive that I can get shots w/o being so noticed.


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## shadow (Nov 6, 2022)

ryanbird said:


> i hope Canon will recreate the eos m line to maybe vlogging camera or beginner camera. just dont stop it. Canon is not capable in making competitive camera in these segments, terrible in size, range of lens, and price. Eos -M is the way out.


Exactly, the "MV" line M for vlogging, small size and weight and MILC. Not sure if they really care to compete on the low end, the R100 perhaps but no rumours on inexpensive lenses. Several posts here on the M6ii being their favorite small intrigues me. I also wonder if the G7x is the end of the Powershot line? The specs are great F1.8-2.8. I just shot a bunch with a used 12mpx SX510HS I bought a couple weeks ago, and the details in enlarging are not good. For web only snapshots, its fine and a $65 bargain. I have no access to see or buy M5, M100, M200 but sure like that size. I just noticed that Xiomini has a hybrid smartphone with removable Leica lens, interesting they would do that.




Rockskipper said:


> I have my old M5 and a bunch of M lenses and it's my go-to for about everything. I LOVE that system. Sold my 6DII and also have an RP, but prefer the M5. Had an R6 but sold it, also the R100-500 lens. Just didn't like carrying them as well.I like the way the camera is so unobtrusive that I can get shots w/o being so noticed.


There you go, R6 is gone I see why the excitement and why pro's need it and get into that for pro applications obviously. But the small size that's the same thinking I have and even with pocket cameras always not drawing attention, which if you travel alone or with someone not in a group in cities you can become a target. Another reason a smartphone works, but lower resolution. I have an continued hobby and interest in going into pretty questionable areas, so very cognizant of discretion as well as respect not to take photos of certain situations. Not a landscape up at dawn shot ever for me.


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## Rockskipper (Nov 6, 2022)

The other thing I like about the M system is it's not as big of a hit if it is stolen. I recently had a resort rental I was staying in robbed. I fortunately only lost some checks and they caught the guy the same day, but I would feel really bad if I had really expensive equipment stolen. I can replace my M5 (used only, of course, as Canon no longer makes it) and lenses for probably under 1k.


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## LSXPhotog (Nov 6, 2022)

Rockskipper said:


> The other thing I like about the M system is it's not as big of a hit if it is stolen. I recently had a resort rental I was staying in robbed. I fortunately only lost some checks and they caught the guy the same day, but I would feel really bad if I had really expensive equipment stolen. I can replace my M5 (used only, of course, as Canon no longer makes it) and lenses for probably under 1k.


I stopped traveling with full frame Canon cameras after dining in a cafe in Italy. Watched a theft get stopped. My wife then brought up the time she was pickpocketed in Milan. As this was going on, I had a 5D Mark IV with a EF 24-105 on the table with a nifty 50mm and 16-35 f/4L in a camera bag by my feet. I realized it was a major mistake for me to travel with these pieces of gear. I never traveled out of country with them again and went Canon M…and eventually Fuji.


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## shadow (Nov 8, 2022)

LSXPhotog said:


> I stopped traveling with full frame Canon cameras after dining in a cafe in Italy. Watched a theft get stopped. My wife then brought up the time she was pickpocketed in Milan. As this was going on, I had a 5D Mark IV with a EF 24-105 on the table with a nifty 50mm and 16-35 f/4L in a camera bag by my feet. I realized it was a major mistake for me to travel with these pieces of gear. I never traveled out of country with them again and went Canon M…and eventually Fuji.


I have been pick pocketed successfully only once fortunately on a cable car in Lisbon, all photos safely backed up on the cloud. Another time I had a Android phone playing music in the front basket of a rented bicycle in Cádiz during Semana Santa, just sitting in the middle of a crowded plaza, turned my head and music volume faded and decreased so jumped off the bike and ran after the guy who stole it and extracted it from his pocket. There were crowds of people watching so he couldn't do anything. 

Years back in 80's in Buenos Aires, I screwed up and left my $2500 kit of 35mm SLR and all lens in a dark fanny pack next to me in a dark cab at night. I had no money then, so it was a huge loss. Now I always hold onto bags. It happened, all because of distraction with a rip off taxi fare argument, but 10 rolls of exposed film kept safe in my hotel. I have used Amazon's cloud for the phone cameras too. It's awful to lose your camera, but worse to lose your entire vacations photos. So I stuck with pocket cameras until recently and looking for another one, as I carry it daily and it always goes in my front pocket or backpack. My plans for my MILC's I need to carry in non-descript bags or backpacks.


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## Rockskipper (Nov 8, 2022)

I store my camera gear in beat-up trash bags when I have to leave it in my car.


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## shadow (Nov 9, 2022)

Rockskipper said:


> I store my camera gear in beat-up trash bags when I have to leave it in my car.


Funny you mention that practical tip, I did business in cash only auctions years ago and a fellow buyer I knew had a beat up old truck, wore torn up clothes and had his office and storage in worst part of town. He kept his gun and piles of $100's in brown paper or McDonald's sacks under his bench seat. He was never robbed and I learned from that, when waltzing around the developing world, I always dress down and never look like a tourist or talk.


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## shadow (Nov 11, 2022)

FWIW, This sort of news is just bad. Just reading a forum thread of M owners on another well known site, and Canon is refusing to service the M6mkii. Trade in only. Not sure of rules here so don't want to post link to another forum.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 11, 2022)

shadow said:


> FWIW, This sort of news is just bad. Just reading a forum thread of M owners on another well known site, and Canon is refusing to service the M6mkii. Trade in only. Not sure of rules here so don't want to post link to another forum.


Why is that a concern? Could simply be a technical issue, cheaper to swap than repair, and then factory-refurbish the unit and re-sell it.


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## shadow (Nov 11, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Why is that a concern? Could simply be a technical issue, cheaper to swap than repair, and then factory-refurbish the unit and re-sell it.


This forum has been valuable for making buying decisions in my short 6 months of reading. This almost seems similar to Computer industry and Apple, the built in obsolescence business model. Am I wrong? All Apple stuff worked great for 5-6 years but has broken, which I feel is crazy. Apple refused OS upgrades, so "just buy a new one" is b.s. I will repair and I figured work arounds, external keyboards, external boot hard drive to Linux, etc. Same with major label laptops, they force you to buy latest. Cameras I can't tear apart myself. I didn't think this 5 year lifespan ideology of not supporting products longer than 5 years was going to infect the camera market. Glad I didn't buy one of those R10 or R7's or M6mk2 refurbs, and a new M50 instead. 

If you are in the USA, likely easy still to do swap. So up until 2004 I had nothing break or need repair, I had 25 computers and no Board or even HDD failures. But buying things since 2004, a different story as QC and MTBF seems to have shifted. 

I now am not in the USA. Many things I buy in tech, name brand die in 5 years. So it is difficult to get service without major hassle of travel and parts are not stocked. No efficient shipping expensive things in country either. If no local repair parts support, not cost effective to send back and forth to USA and hassle with all import paperwork and shipping costs. I have been somewhat unlucky with Amazon sending the wrong stuff or defective stuff too, or things being stolen in transit, worse is high import and handling fees. But at least Amazon, they made it right. 

Until reading here and watching videos, I wasn't aware of lens manufacturing inconsistencies, "getting a bad copy", no idea how true or how often but surprises me with CNC everything now. In my past I sold optical products and my OEM was very consistent in lenses and QC and I did my own QC before shipping to protect my customers. There is no try before you buy or rental where I am either, so I have rely on your input and others for tips, info, etc. All is appreciated.

So, I try and buy locally new (same price as USA and they import) and usually brand name stuff and this camera hobby is getting expensive and I am bothered by the M mount extinction. Several of you mentioned how much you like the M6mk2, and so thought about ordered it from Canon until I read what I did. Locally, the distributor sold out- no more M6 or 90D's and seem to favor MILC Sony products as the buying public in their sales volume.


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## ryanbird (Nov 14, 2022)

shadow said:


> Exactly, the "MV" line M for vlogging, small size and weight and MILC. Not sure if they really care to compete on the low end, the R100 perhaps but no rumours on inexpensive lenses. Several posts here on the M6ii being their favorite small intrigues me. I also wonder if the G7x is the end of the Powershot line? The specs are great F1.8-2.8. I just shot a bunch with a used 12mpx SX510HS I bought a couple weeks ago, and the details in enlarging are not good. For web only snapshots, its fine and a $65 bargain. I have no access to see or buy M5, M100, M200 but sure like that size. I just noticed that Xiomini has a hybrid smartphone with removable Leica lens, interesting they would do that.
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, R6 is gone I see why the excitement and why pro's need it and get into that for pro applications obviously. But the small size that's the same thinking I have and even with pocket cameras always not drawing attention, which if you travel alone or with someone not in a group in cities you can become a target. Another reason a smartphone works, but lower resolution. I have an continued hobby and interest in going into pretty questionable areas, so very cognizant of discretion as well as respect not to take photos of certain situations. Not a landscape up at dawn shot ever for me.


the sensor size is too small for that smartphone. not very appealing to me at all tho its a nice try.


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## DanP (Nov 18, 2022)

For anyone in Canada still looking for an M6II, I just bought one from Londondrugs.com (they only have the kits with EF-M 15-45 and EVF) for $1,299.99. The website shows "While Quantities Last".


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