# Speedlite Remote Trigger Question



## pgsdeepak (Apr 26, 2013)

HI - I am new to off camera Lighting techniques. I own a 580 EXII. I am planning to try my hand on off camera lighting. Initially thought of getting the cable as a start up. Then saw the Youngnou YN-622C wireless trigger. So thought of jumping straight to wireless and skip the wired part (not sure how good an idea that is. thought of saving some money in the long run). I have plans to get a 430 ExII later. My Question is, if I use YN-622C, can I have the 580 be an off camera master and wirelessly trigger the 430 ExII or do I need to get a third YN-622C for the 430 exII?


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## Drizzt321 (Apr 26, 2013)

Using the YN-622's you don't have any of the speedlites being 'master', that's what the Yongnuo triggers are for. You stick the transmitter on your hotshoe, and the receiver on the bottom of the speedlite and you have you're wireless RF TTL.

In order to get TTL you'd need a possibly very long cable, if it'd even work due to there likely being a max length for ETTL cable. Using PC-Sync triggering you have a very, very long max length, but you lose any TTL/remote setting and you need to make all the changes on the speedlite itself.

Hopefully all of that made sense. So short answer is, you don't need to worry about master/slave with that kind of wireless TTL system, however there are certain limitations. However they're a great deal, and I've heard nothing but good things, and if you eventually hit their limitations you'll work around them or there will be a new version that's fixed it or you'll just have to fork over for pocket wizards.


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## myone (Apr 26, 2013)

The Yongnuo 622c allows you to put the 580 and 430 off camera. It also supports ETTL and all flash settings can be changed from the camera menu. However, the units that I just purchased a few weeks ago default zoom at 24mm. All I have to do is get into the camera menu and change the zoom to "AUTO" and it will meter/output the light accordingly. So in your case scenario, you will need a 622C on your camera hot shoe, 1 for 580 and 1 for 430. 

The Yongnuo is a very affordable starter kit, and even the only set you will ever need if you are doing this as a hobbyist. Before I buy my set, I was actually looking at Pocket Wizard offerings and there are many reviews online that dictate incompatibility and bugs with 5D3. Not sure if there are any updates/fixes to the affected models, but like I said, if you want something inexpensive to start with, you can't go wrong with the YN622C.


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## bycostello (Apr 26, 2013)

you'd be better using the 430 as the master...


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## privatebydesign (Apr 26, 2013)

> "In order to get TTL you'd need a possibly very long cable, if it'd even work due to there likely being a max length for ETTL cable."



Just a heads up, ETTL cords work up to at least 100', I made one out of some CAT 6E cable and an old ETTL cord.


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## pgsdeepak (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks for the response. So I guess I can go ahead and get the YN-622C. I was planning to get the 430 ExII as 580 ExII can wirelessly trigger it. From your response it looks like, If I have YN-622C (3 of them if i have two flashes), I woudn't need the wireless capability of 580EXII, so then can I go and get a cheaper YN flash as well? or would it be better to go with the Canon one. Just to clarify once again, if I get a 430 ExII, I wont be able to control it with the 580EXII when the 580 is off camera being remotely triggered by YN622C, Right? 
Sorry I am asking stupid questions. I just started reading about off camera flash lighting and stuffs and got plenty confused with certain things, so thought of getting a remote trigger first and then improve my learning.
thanks again for the feedback and information


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## florianbieler.de (Apr 26, 2013)

bycostello said:


> you'd be better using the 430 as the master...



Um, the 430 can't be used as master.

I also got the Yongnuo 622C two weeks ago, they work flawlessly.


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## Skirball (Apr 26, 2013)

pgsdeepak said:


> Just to clarify once again, if I get a 430 ExII, I wont be able to control it with the 580EXII when the 580 is off camera being remotely triggered by YN622C, Right?



Correct. Look around and see if they sell the 622 in a three pack. Not sure if they do, but I got a three pack of the 602s when I was starting out. Otherwise get two sets and have a backup.

Don't even bother with Canon's optical triggering system with the cheap price of the Yongnuos. I can't speak to the 622s, but I have a bunch of the manual 602s and they're great. Even without TTL, I've never used the Canon optical trigger since going radio.


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## Chewngum (Apr 26, 2013)

The YN622C is the canon version and on ebay they are available in a 3 pack. I got 3 and then got another two because of how great they are. I dont get any misfires, ratios/groups/sync/anything only takes a second to change and the batteries seem to last a long time too. I have two off camera lights for reception venues and have a trigger on my camera with a third flash on top of the trigger. It works every time with perfect metering. I tried manual for a while but why bother with these being so cheap!


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## unfocused (Apr 26, 2013)

Another vote for the YN622C. They are easy to use and seem to be very reliable.

A little more unsolicited advice: read some reviews and comments on the Yongnuo strobes before buying. I've seen a number of complaints about some models where, the customer really likes them for a few months and then the flash head blows out. Yongnuo seems to be making a real effort to improve the quality of their stuff, but I'm still hesitant about buying their strobes. 

Keep in mind that one of the major practical differences between the 580II and the 430II is the ability to use an auxiliary battery pack. If you get into flash photography much you will soon find that the recycle times of units without a battery pack can become a problem. Nothing more frustrating when shooting a portrait then missing shots because your strobe isn't recycling. Especially if you are trying to shoot kids, pets or almost any subject whose expressions change quickly. 

Finally, there is a guide to the YN622C available on the internet that an individual wrote. I don't have the URL in front of me, but if you do a search you should find it. It's pretty helpful and a lot easier to comprehend than the Chinglish that Yongnuo's documentation tends to be written in. 

Finally, have fun, but beware. If you think lenses can eat a hole in your wallet, just wait until you start buying strobes. Nobody needs more than one 70-200 2.8 zoom, but when it comes to strobes, you'll soon find yourself with four or five before you know it.


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## Zv (Apr 29, 2013)

I would also look into getting a few YN-560 IIIs in the future instead of a 430 ex II. They're cheap, manual units only but trust me manual is the way to go. You can still use your 580 for your ETTL needs. The YN-560 III has a built in radio receiver too and they work as optical slaves too (something the 430s lack). Also the buttons are nice and big which makes changing the power or zoom head a breeze. The 430 requires some fiddling about with thumbnails. 

I find off camera ETTL to be unrelaible. How does the camera know where you've put the flash? It just thinks its parked on top of the camera so the power output will be wrong. Sure, you can use FEC but then that depends where you meter from and can lead to inconsistent light from shot to shot (not to mention you learn nothing from it). I mean how often in flash photography do you only take one or two shots?? With manual you can adjust the power by simply moving the flash closer or further away as well as dialing in the power. Once its set you can take as many shots as you like without worrying about it changing, thus freeing you up to work on composition. After a few tries you get familair with how much power you will likely need for any given situation.


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## Chewngum (Apr 29, 2013)

Zv said:


> I find off camera ETTL to be unrelaible. How does the camera know where you've put the flash? It just thinks its parked on top of the camera so the power output will be wrong. Sure, you can use FEC but then that depends where you meter from and can lead to inconsistent light from shot to shot (not to mention you learn nothing from it). I mean how often in flash photography do you only take one or two shots??




You obviously must not of used remote flash photography outside of a tiny studio with controlled lighting. Try a dark reception venue with a dance floor and walking around the entire room taking photos at different angles, locations and subjects. I often only take one shot at a time and the wireless ETTL triggers nail it every time. Just because you don't get more creative and adaptable with your off camera lighting doesn't mean that others don't.


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## Zv (Apr 29, 2013)

Chewngum said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > I find off camera ETTL to be unrelaible. How does the camera know where you've put the flash? It just thinks its parked on top of the camera so the power output will be wrong. Sure, you can use FEC but then that depends where you meter from and can lead to inconsistent light from shot to shot (not to mention you learn nothing from it). I mean how often in flash photography do you only take one or two shots??
> ...



I've shot in a nightclub before and yes I have used ETTL in that situation. I was trying to get the OP too understand the difference between manual and auto. Thanks for the dig at me. Very constructive.


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## TonyMM (Apr 29, 2013)

Great set of concise flash/Canon education tutorials at:

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

Tony M


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## Canon-F1 (Apr 29, 2013)

bycostello said:


> you'd be better using the 430 as the master...



yeah that would really suprise me.... :


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## Canon-F1 (Apr 29, 2013)

Zv said:


> I would also look into getting a few YN-560 IIIs in the future instead of a 430 ex II. They're cheap, manual units only but trust me manual is the way to go. You can still use your 580 for your ETTL needs. The YN-560 III has a built in radio receiver too and they work as optical slaves too (something the 430s lack). Also the buttons are nice and big which makes changing the power or zoom head a breeze. The 430 requires some fiddling about with thumbnails.



but can you adjust them with the YN-622C over radio?

if not... they are not the best for wireless flash if you want to control you flash units from the camera.

for example you can´t control the YN-560-II from your camera menu with the YN-622C.
so you have to walk to the flash units every time you make an adjustment. 
the YN 560-II has only on hot shoe pin so there is no path for that info.

i think to make the wireless adjustments work (via YN-622C), the flash has to support ETTL... even when you choose to use the flash in manual mode. or at least it has to have the hot shoe PINS used for ETTL.

so correct me if im wrong but the radio in the YN560-III only works with the RF-602 and RF-603 units.


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## Skirball (Apr 29, 2013)

Zv said:


> Chewngum said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



To be fair, you weren't really discussing the differences between manual and eTTL; it was more like highlighting the shortcomings of eTTL. In the first paragraph you completely dismissed eTTL as being worthless.


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## hamada (Apr 29, 2013)

Skirball said:


> To be fair, you weren't really discussing the differences between manual and eTTL; it was more like highlighting the shortcomings of eTTL. In the first paragraph you completely dismissed eTTL as being worthless.



yeah and only a troll or someone unable to use ETTL would do that. 

have a look at joe mcnallys work.
he uses TTL on nikon.. and it´s not that much (if any) better then canons.


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## Zv (Apr 30, 2013)

hamada said:


> Skirball said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair, you weren't really discussing the differences between manual and eTTL; it was more like highlighting the shortcomings of eTTL. In the first paragraph you completely dismissed eTTL as being worthless.
> ...



Did i say it was worthless? I said unreliable for consistency in power output for multiple shots when the flash is off camera, especially as you change composition. I didn't say it doesn't work. 

I will rephrase it though - ETTL for dynamic situations and where subject to light distance is constanly changing and manual for a fixed position. 

You guys really need to chill and not pounce on the first thing you happen to disagree upon. 

Not everyone is a Joe Mcnally. We all make mistakes.


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## pgsdeepak (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks for advices. I guess, I will get a pair of the YN622C first. I see Amazon sells it in single pack as well. so when (if) I get my second flash unit, I would buy one more. Speaking of 2nd flash unit, even though its a long way out for me to consider buying one, I guess I can use some advice and be prepared . I had my mind set on 430ExII (used one if possible). But I saw some sites (and a couple of posts in canonrumors) recommending Youngnou 568 or 565 units. which one would be better with a third 622C?
Also can we adjust the flash (more than one flash units) from the camera menu, if we use the wireless triggers


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## K3nt (Apr 30, 2013)

I use the YN-622C with my 430EX II and Nissin Di866 MkII and I am able to change any and all settings that the camera normally offers as well. Can even use 2nd curtain and High-Speed Sync over the radio. Good stuff for the price, albeit a little clunky them transceivers.


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## Canon-F1 (Apr 30, 2013)

pgsdeepak said:


> Also can we adjust the flash (more than one flash units) from the camera menu, if we use the wireless triggers



as i wrote about above.. yes you can.
with the right flash units.

with the youngnou 568EX or 565EX it will work.
good is the YN-568EX, as you would have HSS support.


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## Chewngum (May 2, 2013)

Zv said:


> hamada said:
> 
> 
> > Skirball said:
> ...




You didnt rephrase it, you tried to change your point, and its still wrong. If you practice with ETTL then you will have to work less in dynamic situations than using manual in controlled situations.


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