# 10D, 100D or 700D?



## ereka (Dec 12, 2013)

My wife wants a DSLR to replace her IXUS point & shoot, partly because some of her friends have SLRs ... so a sort of "keeping up with the Jones's" ... but mainly for better IQ. Main use will be shooting at parties and sharing the images with her friends on Facebook (although I might just borrow it on occasion as a walk around camera for non-professional use). 

I already have a number of spare Canon lenses and was thinking of donating my 24-105L to her and thus limiting the financial outlay to 'body only'. It would also have better IQ than any of the 100D/700D kit lenses.

I was also thinking I might donate my old 10D, which has been sitting in a cupboard unused for the last 8 or 9 years (so no financial outlay at all other than to buy some new batteries, as the originals have died - you might consider this a 'cheapskate' option but the IQ from the 10D is still as superb as it ever was and 6mp should be more than enough resolution for the intended purpose). The only drawbacks might be that the 10D doesn't shoot video and possibly more significant it doesn't have any built-in flash, so I'd have to either donate my old 580EX or buy a new one. The need for an external flash unit would also make the whole rig quite large and cumbersome and not really what might be described as 'cute' (my wife likes 'cute')

I'm thinking that the 100D might be a better option because it's small and 'cute' and has built-in flash and video. It also has cute Kids, Food and Candlelight modes which might appeal.

There again, the 700D doesn't cost significantly more and might be better balanced with the 24-105L lens? It also has a 'cute' and useful vari-angle rear LCD screen. Also, AF has 9 cross-type points versus 1 cross-type point on the 100D, which might be an advantage for shooting in dimly lit party venues?

So, I'll be grateful for your thoughts - on a limited budget for the purpose described above (effectively a high quality 'point and shoot' for my wife and an occasional walk-around camera for myself) which do you think would be the optimal balance between financial outlay and usability?

1. ('cheapskate' option) 10D body, 24-105L, 580EX, a couple of replacement batteries

2. 100D body, 24-105L

3. 700D body, 24-105L

4. some other option (bearing in mind that my wife has her heart set on a DSLR)?


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## verysimplejason (Dec 12, 2013)

Option 1 unless she doesn't want that kind of weight.


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## Random Orbits (Dec 12, 2013)

Option 2 but with the kit lens if you stay with a DSLR. The 18-55 range is more useful than the 24-105 for parties and is smaller and lighter. She could always "borrow" your lenses for a specific purpose, but the 100D with the kit lens is compact and light. Most women I know prefer the more compact option even if it has fewer features. The camera that is small enough that they don't mind carrying is the one that gets used... which is why I got my wife the EOS-M.


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## Vivid Color (Dec 12, 2013)

Ask you wife which option she wants. 

I also have a question for you given the spare equipment you have sitting around: The minute your wife said she was interested in a DSLR, why didn't you just offer her the 10D with the 24-105 as something to try out with the understanding that if she likes the DSLR experience, you'll help her pick something new out as a present? And of course you can constrain the options she has to choose from but I doubt she'll go all full frame on you.


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## brianboru (Dec 12, 2013)

The Q menu and touch interface on the 100D and 700D are nice to help new users. 

This spring I was faced with a similar situation and tried to get my wife to use my backup 40D - she was intimidated by it. We ended up with a 650D as the 100D was announced but not available at the time. She likes it a lot and likes the video capabilities. Unfortunately she keeps taking "my" 17-40L as she likes the feel of it over the 18-55.


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## dexstrose (Dec 12, 2013)

The 10D does have a built-in flash. I know cause I still use my 10D time to time.


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## cellomaster27 (Dec 12, 2013)

100D with 40mm pancake. 24-105 is wayyy too heavy for that camera. The STM 18-55 kit isn't bad either. It's light, fairly compact, and versatile for most things. IQ is alright..


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 12, 2013)

dexstrose said:


> The 10D does have a built-in flash. I know cause I still use my 10D time to time.



Maybe the internal flash on the OP's 10D is broken, but as you say, the 10D definitely has one...


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 12, 2013)

I vote in SL1 (100D) with 18-55 STM lens as it has adequate size and weight, very good IQ and mechanical surprisingly superior compared to any previous kit lens. If she wishes, will have 24-105L, but I doubt very much that he wants.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 12, 2013)

ereka said:


> Main use will be shooting at parties
> 
> I already have a number of spare Canon lenses and was thinking of donating my 24-105L to her and thus limiting the financial outlay to 'body only'. It would also have better IQ than any of the 100D/700D kit lenses.



Yes, the 24-105L would have better IQ wide open than the 18-55, although not as much better as you might be thinking. Not sure if 100D + 18-135mm STM kits are available where you are (they aren't in the USA but since you call it the 100D and refer to IXUS P&S, I infer that you're not in the USA) - that kit lens actually delivers _better_ IQ at the long end than the 24-105L, even giving the 24-105L the benefit of stopping down to f/5.6 (TDP comparison).

The real issue with the 24-105L is that on APS-C it gives a FF equivalent of 38mm. Not sure which IXUS she has, but most of the recent ones start at 28mm or even 24mm FFeq…I'm not sure she'd be happy giving up the wide angle, particularly since you mention indoor use. 

So, my vote goes to a 100D body (for the small size) and either the 18-135mm STM lens, the 18-55mm STM lens for cost savings, or if you want to splurge and one-up the Joneses, the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS which gives better low light performance and IMO is the best general purpose zoom for APS-C.


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## Robert Welch (Dec 12, 2013)

Yes, the 10D is a great camera for free! And it does have a flash, if it's working. The other real problem with the 10D though is it isn't compatible with EF-S lenses, the 20D and the Rebel were the first ones with that compatibility. Otherwise, for no money my money would be on the 10D.


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## frumrk (Dec 12, 2013)

I bought my wife the 100D Kit with the 18-55 and the 55-250. She loves the fact that she can just toss everything in her bag and go.


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## sama (Dec 12, 2013)

Why not the Eos M package with a EF lens adapter ? 

I believe if you let her choose, she will definitely pick this combo.


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## wsmith96 (Dec 12, 2013)

you might want to consider a 60D - they are inexpensive these days. But, there is no shame in starting out with the cheap option to see if she likes using DSLRs.


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## dak723 (Dec 12, 2013)

In all honesty, the only opinion that matters is your wife's. Since you have many of the cameras and lenses, she can try them out. For the uses you have outlined, each camera and lens that you have considered is probably far beyond what she needs in terms of IQ. I would opt for the lightest and most convenient (pop-up flash compared to flash unit). The 24-105 lens seems to be way over the top - even I don't like carrying around that much weight.


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## unfocused (Dec 12, 2013)

dak723 said:


> In all honesty, the only opinion that matters is your wife's...



+1000. Take it from a guy who's been married three times. Your used cast-offs are not an acceptable gift. Get her a new camera and lens kit that is her's and her's alone. Even a 1Dx would be a bargain in comparison to the path you'll be heading down if you dust off some 10 year old camera and hand it to her.


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## K13X5C (Dec 13, 2013)

unfocused said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > In all honesty, the only opinion that matters is your wife's...
> ...



+1001 Wiser words may have never been spoken. lol


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## RustyTheGeek (Dec 13, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> ereka said:
> 
> 
> > Main use will be shooting at parties
> ...



I was thinking almost exactly what *neuro* said except I didn't consider the 17-55 upgrade. I also agree with *K13X5C*. Get her something new that is hers and let her show it off and get a real thrill out of using it. And help her with it often so you can be her resident expert. Compliment her on her work.


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## jebrady03 (Dec 13, 2013)

RustyTheGeek said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ereka said:
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Another +1 for Neuro's suggestion. I'd also like to second the "EOS M" suggestion as it was the very first thing that popped in my head. Buying the "full kit" of the EOS M + 22/2 (for low light) + 18-55 + 90EX flash sounds PERFECT for her uses, IMO. And if you're in the US can be had for $400. That's a LOT of bang for the buck as the IQ from both of those lenses is OUTSTANDING, the kit is compact and the entire package is quite versatile. If the 40mm f/2.8 STM is desired, it can be added along with the adapter for less than $250.


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## timmy_650 (Dec 13, 2013)

Have you thought about a 5Dc? with a 24-105L that is a good combo and if you and trying to keep up with the jones, it is also a really good combo for that too. I am not sure it is the best choice but it is something to think about. But it is a bigger camera but I am guessing she has used a camera that size before bc my guess is that is what you are shooting with size wise. But the problem with it and the 10D is the screen size. It stinks to try and show people picture on a screen that size nowadays. I would rule out the 10D bc of the screen.


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## LewisShermer (Dec 13, 2013)

A 60D and a 17-85mm

Considerably better IQ than your 10D, it's got a swivelly screen, the range of the 17-85mm is useful and it's a lot lot smaller than the 24-105 and it's still usm. also the 60D has the extra dials & wheels to make functions a little more accessible than the 100/700. it also does in camera vintage/cross processing/black and white/grain.

and it looks sweet, which is the main issue.

in fact I might buy one myself.


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## aj1575 (Dec 13, 2013)

The 100D is a really nice camera. Even I was playing with the idea of buying one, simply because it is so small, but still a DSLR (I went with the 70D instead, a lot more to carry arround, but also more features). I would not pair it with the 24-105, this lens would simply be an overkill for the 100D body. But luckily there are many options for a starter lens. The kit lens is quite okay, but usually the first lens that gets kicked out of the lineup. So I would go for another option. I'm very happy happy with my Sigma 17-70 f2,8-4 C; more reach than the kit lens, macro function, faster aperture, and (probably more important for your wife than for you) it looks great.


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## AvTvM (Dec 13, 2013)

unfocused said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > In all honesty, the only opinion that matters is your wife's...
> ...



+1000  

In an ideal Canon world, it would be so easy to answer this with "EOS-M2"...

very compact, "cute" and cool body ... depending on wife's colour preference in black, white or red  
sensor with very decent IQ ... in good light
good-IQ lenses available, compact and reasonably priced, especialy in kit
compact 18-55 kit-zoom with IS and even more compact, "cute" 22/2.0 WA prime 
highly intuitive user-interface including touch screen
built-in WIFI, sharing of images possible, depending on how Canon has implemented it 
BUT ... unfortunately this is ... Canon. EOS-M / M2 are no option, because ... :'(

M2 not for sale in US, Europe and most of Asia
M (and M2 probably as well) AF performance not sufficient for intended primary shooting situation - social pics, mainly indoors (=usually low to very low light, people typically moving)
No built-in flash; separate flash unit no enticing option here
 :'(

Therefore I'd go with SL-1 with 18-55 STM or possibly 18-135 STM if it's got to be a Canon and a DSLR. 
EF-S 17-55/2.8 is a great lens (use it as my primary lens myself), but too heavy and big (basically same size as 24-105L) to be a good choice in this scenario. 

Nikon1 J3 might be an even better choice. Small, very "cute", very good AF-performance, built-in flash, IQ "more than good enough" for intended purpose. Dirt cheap. WiFi available via WU-1b plug-in wart. 

Or Sony 100RX II. Very compact & light, decent lens, decent IQ for intended purpose, flash and WiFi on-board. Might take convincing of wife and Jones' that it is not just another el-cheapo P&S cam, though.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 13, 2013)

timmy_650 said:


> Have you thought about a 5Dc? with a 24-105L that is a good combo and if you and trying to keep up with the jones, it is also a really good combo for that too. I am not sure it is the best choice but it is something to think about. But it is a bigger camera but I am guessing she has used a camera that size before bc my guess is that is what you are shooting with size wise. But the problem with it and the 10D is the screen size. It stinks to try and show people picture on a screen that size nowadays. I would rule out the 10D bc of the screen.


Oh, no. :-X Another recommendation for 5D classic for people who have no experience with DSLR and want to do household photos. :-[ I can not imagine a woman giving up live view, video, small size and weight, large and clear LCD, SD memory cards, etc. :-* :'(


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## jblake (Dec 13, 2013)

Your wife is coming from a point and shoot; she is not accustomed to changing lenses, keep that in mind. Like others have said buy it new. The last thing you want your wife to do with her brand new DSLR, is to have focusing problems, think non-cross type AF points, and having to change lenses; 18-55 + 55-250 (stupid idea).

You want your wife to have a stress free and enjoyable experience with her new DSLR, so the only real option is the 700D (T5i) and the 18-135 STM. And if her friends all have cool DSLR's, you don't want her to show up with an under-sized EOS-M type camera.

The 700D is all cross-type AF points, I am assuming your wife will be in the auto mode (green rectangle) quite a bit (no matter what AF point the camera chooses, it will be a cross type AF point), and the 18-135 STM has very good image quality and focuses extremely fast. The 18-135 STM is a much better lens, IQ wise, focusing speed, silent AF and IS operations, when compared to a lens with an even greater focal range like the 18-200. 

This combo, 700D + 18-135 STM, is going for $908.00 at B & H right now. If she desires to be more creative with her photography in the future, you can always pick up a cheap prime, when and if that situation ever occurs. 

That is my .02 worth. Good luck!


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## RLPhoto (Dec 13, 2013)

100D with a 18-135mm.


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## Dukinald (Dec 13, 2013)

Do you know what her friends have ? 

I had the mistake of giving my wife my old stuff (after upgrading) and I agree with the other posters....DON'T do it.

It seems 100D with kit lens would be ideal specially. But then again, like what others said, it realy her opinion that matters.


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## jebrady03 (Dec 13, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> M (and M2 probably as well) AF performance not sufficient for intended primary shooting situation - social pics, mainly indoors (=usually low to very low light, people typically moving)


I'm guessing you've either never used the M and are drastically underestimating it's AF abilities or you've never hung around married women in a social situation and are overestimating their level of activity. 

Most women get by just fine with a P&S or camera phone in this situation, the AF on the M is superior to either of those, even with the 22/2 which is great for low-light indoor pics (I should know, I use it for my 16 month old daughter).


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## AvTvM (Dec 13, 2013)

jebrady03 said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > M (and M2 probably as well) AF performance not sufficient for intended primary shooting situation - social pics, mainly indoors (=usually low to very low light, people typically moving)
> ...



AF on the EOS M is a dog and definitely not superior to anything. Good P&S cameras like the Sony RX100 II run circles around it. Of course also helped by the smaller sensor and its wider DOF. And Nikon 1 AF beats EOS-M by miles, it can track moving subjects, M cannot.

"taking pics at parties" is what the TO mentioned as main use for wife's cam. While we don't know how mild or wild those parties usually are ;D ... I would definitely not recommend an EOS M as the best camera "to take pics at parties".


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## jebrady03 (Dec 13, 2013)

Again, it's pretty obvious you haven't used it


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## ereka (Dec 13, 2013)

Wow, I wasn't expecting so many replies!

Thank you to everyone who has taken time to ponder my dilemma and offer their thoughts and opinions.

There's no clear winner at present, so I'm still pondering on it myself.

Whilst my wife is fully involved in the decision, that doesn't help much as she doesn't really know herself what she wants. I'm inclined to agree though that a second-hand camera is not much of a gift, especially as I've now spotted some rust on the neck strap lugs 

Regarding the pop-up flash, I've checked and sure enough the 10D does have a pop-up flash. I've either never used it/ realised it was there or the camera has been in the cupboard for so long that I just forgot. Unfortunately though, I've tried it out with the 24-105L lens attached and the pop-up flash is pretty useless as the lens is too long physically and casts a shadow on the image! I could buy a smaller lens for the 10D, but then for similar price I could buy a new body/lens kit. For various reasons then, I think we can rule out the 10D.

Opinions offered vary widely, but I'm beginning to err towards a compact with a decent sensor, the problem being that all of them have pros and cons so it's really difficult to choose!

I have a headache just considering all the options


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2013)

ereka said:


> ... my wife is fully involved in the decision, that doesn't help much as she doesn't really know herself what she wants.



From a feature standpoint, perhaps. But ergonomics is a big factor - if you haven't already, maybe learn from Goldilocks...take her to a camera shop to handle several options. That might help narrow down the choices...


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## bholliman (Dec 14, 2013)

I agree with those recommending a 100D and 18-55 STM or 18-135 STM lens. The 100D is a terrific little camera that can do everything the 700D can in a smaller package. 

An EOS-M with 22/2, 18-55 and 90EX flash is also a nice alternative if she feels a DSLR is too large. The M's AF is certainly good enough for the OP's listed intended uses.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 14, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> ereka said:
> 
> 
> > ... my wife is fully involved in the decision, that doesn't help much as she doesn't really know herself what she wants.
> ...



Big +1 ... ergonomics and the "feel" of the camera and menus is a major factor, if you're cross with your camera you even if the "specs" are terrific you will have less fun and in turn produce worse results. For me, the xxd (60d, 70d, ...) is the smallest model I'd consider "usable" due to top lcd and back dial, but if you're a touchscreen person a newer Rebel might also work out.


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## Vivid Color (Dec 14, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> ereka said:
> 
> 
> > ... my wife is fully involved in the decision, that doesn't help much as she doesn't really know herself what she wants.
> ...



+1
At the end of the day, ergonomics might be the biggest factor in terms of whether you're going to enjoy using your camera not. Years ago, when I was trying to decide between similarly spec'ed Canon and Nikon cameras, I chose Canon because of the ergonomics. From a feature standpoint, for someone who is just beginning to use a DSLR, either the 100D or 700D would probably be perfectly fine. But the two will have a very different feeling the hand. A camera store that has both in stock will solve your dilemma. Let us know what your wife chooses.


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## bholliman (Dec 14, 2013)

Awesome deal on the 100D (SL1) and 18-55 IS STM kit lens - $460 from Amazon!

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/blog/2013/12/hot-deal-eos-rebel-sl1-with-18-55mm-is-stm-for-460-from-amazon/


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## ereka (Dec 16, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> ereka said:
> 
> 
> > ... my wife is fully involved in the decision, that doesn't help much as she doesn't really know herself what she wants.
> ...



Well, I followed your advice and took my wife to a camera shop ... she spent a few seconds looking at a 100D and 700D before losing interest and making a beeline for the CSC section ... she seemed to particularly like a Nikon 1 J2/3 with red body and matching red lens (because it was all red, her favourite colour and 'cute').


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## tron (Dec 16, 2013)

bholliman said:


> Awesome deal on the 100D (SL1) and 18-55 IS STM kit lens - $460 from Amazon!
> 
> http://www.canonpricewatch.com/blog/2013/12/hot-deal-eos-rebel-sl1-with-18-55mm-is-stm-for-460-from-amazon/


+1 on that.
She will love the size and weight. In fact you may love it too and borrow it from her ... ;D ;D ;D


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## AvTvM (Dec 16, 2013)

ereka said:


> Well, I followed your advice and took my wife to a camera shop ... she spent a few seconds looking at a 100D and 700D before losing interest and making a beeline for the CSC section ... she seemed to particularly like a Nikon 1 J2/3 with red body and matching red lens (because it was all red, her favourite colour and 'cute').



hehehe ... what did I say! Definitely not a bad choice either. While IQ is no match whatsoever for EOS-M and SL-1 it is plenty good enough for party pics to go on facebook. Build-in flash and surprisingly good AF. And can be found at low price. ;-)


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 17, 2013)

ereka said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > ereka said:
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My wife and I have been married for >20 years...I've learned there are some things I can shop for, and others it's far better to let her pick on her own.


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