# DPReview article: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV rolling shutter test



## xps (Aug 27, 2016)

Read an article at DPReview about problems at shooting videos.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test

Is this an severe thing,or just an problem that can be solved by an software update?


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## ahsanford (Aug 29, 2016)

*5D4 Rolling Shutter?*


DPR - 5D4 rolling shutter with 4K:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXSqKX3OexQ

I don't shoot video but thought I would forward this on. Is this a big deal, or is comparing the 5D4 to the 1DX2 too high a bar for this video consideration? 

- A


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## privatebydesign (Aug 29, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

I think it is typical DPReview bullshit.

Here are the two angles laid on top of each other. Shown that what do you think?


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## ahsanford (Aug 29, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*


Actual DPR story that accompanies the video:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test

The terrible no good very bad habit of an internet 'news' source reposting the same story from the same piece of evidence without any independent corroboration:

1) http://www.digitalrev.com/article/canon-5d-mark-iv-might-have-terrible-rolling-shutter

2) http://askmeblogs.com/dont-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test-2/ 
(Completely plagiarized word for word from DPR _with a new author listed!_ )

I'd wager that this would get similarly 're-reported / repackaged' by Petapixel and the various DSLR videography blogs by the end of the day.

- A


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## privatebydesign (Aug 29, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

And so the "the 5D MkIV has crap video and terrible rolling shutter" and "the 5D MkIV video is a joke" memes become embedded. 

6 months down the road in the hands of competent actual users the camera becomes loved for the video quality, welcome to the new world that is driven by sales numbers and inaccurate but headline grabbing drivel.


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## ritholtz (Aug 29, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



ahsanford said:


> Actual DPR story that accompanies the video:
> https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test
> 
> The terrible no good very bad habit of an internet 'news' source reposting the same story from the same piece of evidence without any independent corroboration:
> ...


I think pretty sad reporting targeting a specific camera without even doing proper measurements. Not seen this kind of test or headline for any other camera from them when released.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 29, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

I registered at DPR to post in that thread. Interesting to see if the post passes the mods and how long it stays if it does.


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## Sporgon (Aug 29, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



privatebydesign said:


> I registered at DPR to post in that thread. Interesting to see if the post passes the mods and how long it stays if it does.



Well done. Let us know.

It does seem quite remarkable how DPR have got it in for Canon. Almost makes you think perhaps Canon won't give Amazon such large bulk discounts as the other manufacturers, or they get less per unit, or something along those lines.


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## mukul (Aug 30, 2016)

*Now This form DPR*

"UPDATED | Don't get ahead of yourself: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV rolling shutter test"

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: Now This form DPR*

I don't shoot dSLR video (I have a camcorder for that), but that's an interesting result. 

Also interesting that they mention:

[quote author=DPR]
However, upon shooting with the camera we found it to have significant rolling shutter. We've demonstrated the effect alongside the EOS-1D X Mark II, which reads out its sensor fast enough to exhibit pretty low levels of rolling shutter, and the Sony *a6300, which shows a relatively high level of rolling shutter at 24p*, albeit less so at 30p.
[/quote]

I wonder why they don't _show_ the effect on the Sony? In the 5Ds/R review, they show the comparisons to Sony or Nikon, and somehow it seems that the non-Canon brand is better in each comparison. But here, they're not showing the Sony effect. Is it worse than the 5DIV?

I think I figured it out – they don't show the comparisons to Sony or Nikon in some other Canon articles, either...but what makes the 5Ds/R review different is that Rishi was one of the authors.


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## pokerz (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: Now This form DPR*

Thats what Canon can do with its sensor and processor


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## tron (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



privatebydesign said:


> I registered at DPR to post in that thread. Interesting to see if the post passes the mods and how long it stays if it does.


Interesting  
Can you please send us a link?

EDIT: Never mind. It was very easy to find


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



tron said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I registered at DPR to post in that thread. Interesting to see if the post passes the mods and how long it stays if it does.
> ...



Interesting that they have now updated it with more images. Certainly the original comparison video that has same speed panning doesn't exhibit the differences they now claim. One of their sets of results must be incorrect. I don't know why there is such a difference in their results.

EDIT; Scratch that, the differences are that in the original video that are shooting at video shutter speeds for video use. In the new results they are shooting video at 1/1000 sec, which renders the video unusable, to see how useful the stills capture from video is in fast panning situations. Amazing the hoops you have to jump through to prove there is 'an issue'. :


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

P.S. They are also comparing the 5D MkIV at 30fps to the 1DX MkII at 60fps. Wow, what utter bullshit. For those that don't know, rolling shutter is known to be worse at higher shutter speeds and lower frame rates.

Rishi must be worn out from all his hoop jumping this morning. What else can they do to contrive results to support their bias?


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



privatebydesign said:


> Amazing the hoops you have to jump through to prove there is 'an issue'. :



Next, they'll add the 5-stop pushed images to _really_ show differences.


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



neuroanatomist said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing the hoops you have to jump through to prove there is 'an issue'. :
> ...



One of the first things they did was post a before and after shot with the ever-so-tasteful +100 shadow push in ACR. :

[I'm looking for a good 'Mouth-breathers' meme from Stranger Things to post in response to this nonsense, but I am shocked to not find a good one exists already.]

- A


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## gsealy (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

This article is a good thing. You may not like the reviewer, but people should know what rolling shutter is. Many purchasers of the 5DIV are not really into video and have no idea that rolling shutter exists.


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



gsealy said:


> This article is a good thing. You may not like the reviewer, but people should know what rolling shutter is. Many purchasers of the 5DIV are not really into video and have no idea that rolling shutter exists.



Agree, a PSA on rolling shutter (for non-video folks like me) is great, especially at an all-comers sort of site like DPR, Petapixel, etc.

But that's not what this is. This is a bit of a poorly taken, rushed effort on a pre-production unit coupled with discussion/interpretation/conclusion. How far they took this is misleading, and they didn't need a 5D4 to show the world what rolling shutter was if all they wanted to do was give us a PSA.

Let's call it what it is: they wanted to 'first' / get the scoop before anyone else, rushed something to the internet, and here we are.

- A


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## FramerMCB (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



neuroanatomist said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing the hoops you have to jump through to prove there is 'an issue'. :
> ...



Yes. But they'll be comparing a full resolution RAW from the 42.6MP Sony to the 8.8 video still captures from the 5D Mk IV...


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## ritholtz (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



privatebydesign said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Looks like they are trying to point out usefulness of framegrabs. They are suggesting, this feature might not be that much useful with this much rolling shutter (still waiting for them to publish scientific measurements). And how they are excited about using this feature on 1DX2 with 60 frames. Not sure why they didn't produce a separate page/article highlighting this exciting feature in 1DX2 and D5 reviews. They typically find something from Nikon and Sony to highlight canon deficiencies. But this time they used Canon to stick it to Canon.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



ritholtz said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



If they were genuinely tying to do that, and panning so fast, it would be to track a very fast moving subject. The impact on that subject would be far more relevant, so where is it?

They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



privatebydesign said:


> They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.



Rishi Sanyal = Sean Hannity?


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



ritholtz said:


> Looks like they are trying to point out usefulness of framegrabs. They are suggesting, this feature might not be that much useful with this much rolling shutter (still waiting for them to publish scientific measurements). And how they are excited about using this feature on 1DX2 with 60 frames. Not sure why they didn't produce a separate page/article highlighting this exciting feature in 1DX2 and D5 reviews. They typically find something from Nikon and Sony to highlight canon deficiencies. But this time they used Canon to stick it to Canon.



Oh, goodness gracious, those hacks _changed the entire story_ as Ritholtz just pointed out.

Worth reading this again (...for the first time):

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test

_Now_ it looks like a PSA on 4K frame-grabbing. After 4-5 lower-on-the-RSS-feed organizations have parroted it on their own sites. Damage done.

- A


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



neuroanatomist said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.
> ...



No, the Hannity of photography clearly works at DXO.

- A


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



neuroanatomist said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.
> ...



+1

I have worked with Bill O'Reilly (which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy) so Sean would be my closest guess.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



DXO would be O'Reilly for sure. Unable to comprehend that any word they had spoken was not an indisputable law of the universe.


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## [email protected] (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

I know very little about video shooting, but isn't the difference in slope from those images almost completely a product of comparing the 5D4 shooting at 30fps and the 1DX shooting at 60fps? I would imagine you would have precisely two times the slope, unless there is more complex math in there than I'm aware of.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

[quote author=Rishi Sanyal @ DPR]
We think it's responsible journalism to temper some of our initial enthusiasm over this particular feature (frame grab) with what's likely to be a real limitation.
[/quote]

DPR can be accused of many things, but _responsible journalism_ isn't one of them. But yes, let's temper our 'enthusiasm' for a Canon product, by all means. 

However, looking back over the last couple of years, rolling shutter in 4K frame grabs doesn't seem to be a big deal at DPR...

[quote author=DPReview of Panasonic's 4K Photo mode]
The use of electronic shutter means that the results of 4K photo can inherit some odd glitches from the nature of a rolling shutter.

The 4K Photo mode isn't a panacea for capturing the moment, though. Because it stems from video, the cameras use electronic shutters. This can result in still images that show the effect of rolling shutter, with vertical elements rendered as diagonal lines if there's rapid movement. This isn't always a problem, since that electronic shutter can work so quickly that very little movement has occurred during the exposure, but ironically is most likely to appear with the kinds fast-moving action that make 30fps shooting seem so attractive. As can be seen in the lightning shot above: 4K Photo doesn't work for every shooting situation.

However, *extreme cases aside*, 4K Photo mode does a good job of turning high resolution video capability into a useful continuous shooting mode. 
[/quote]

So with non-Canon gear, it's only a problem in "extreme cases" but in a Canon product, well, it's a "real limitation".


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



neuroanatomist said:


> [quote author=DPReview of Panasonic's 4K Photo mode]
> The use of electronic shutter means that the results of 4K photo can inherit some odd glitches from the nature of a rolling shutter.
> 
> The 4K Photo mode isn't a panacea for capturing the moment, though. Because it stems from video, the cameras use electronic shutters. This can result in still images that show the effect of rolling shutter, with vertical elements rendered as diagonal lines if there's rapid movement. This isn't always a problem, since that electronic shutter can work so quickly that very little movement has occurred during the exposure, but ironically is most likely to appear with the kinds fast-moving action that make 30fps shooting seem so attractive. As can be seen in the lightning shot above: 4K Photo doesn't work for every shooting situation.
> ...



So with non-Canon gear, it's only a problem in "extreme cases" but in a Canon product, well, it's a "real limitation". 
[/quote]

Neuro would be the Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews in this analogy, if you haven't gathered that already.

- A


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > [quote author=DPReview of Panasonic's 4K Photo mode]
> ...



Neuro would be the Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews in this analogy, if you haven't gathered that already.

- A
[/quote]

I'd like to think of him as less partisan and more fact orientated, my choice would be John Stewart. He appears as a Canon fanboy (liberal) because he is mainly pointing out inaccuracies that come from the 'right', DPR and trolls which in this forum appear 'anti' Canon (but there are trolls everywhere). But in truth he is almost without exception just reiterating facts.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

Like a Jon Stewart without the goat farm? That works for me... ;D


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



privatebydesign said:


> I'd like to think of him as less partisan and more fact orientated, my choice would be John Stewart. He appears as a Canon fanboy (liberal) because he is mainly pointing out inaccuracies that come from the 'right', DPR and trolls which in this forum appear 'anti' Canon (but there are trolls everywhere). But in truth he is almost without exception just reiterating facts.



Maaaaaaaaybe. Neuro's typically crushing anti-Canon ignorance. JS also throttles the left when they are being idiotic. I'm hard-pressed to think of a time Neuro just laid into Canon with a full-throated complaint. 

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



ahsanford said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to think of him as less partisan and more fact orientated, my choice would be John Stewart. He appears as a Canon fanboy (liberal) because he is mainly pointing out inaccuracies that come from the 'right', DPR and trolls which in this forum appear 'anti' Canon (but there are trolls everywhere). But in truth he is almost without exception just reiterating facts.
> ...




Let's consult the wayback...



neuroanatomist said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > Woah, one delay and you declare vapor-ware. That's strict.
> ...





neuroanatomist said:


> The bottom line remains the same, whatever jargon you want to use - in the last 2-3 years, Canon has a terrible track record of getting their announced high end photo gear into the marketplace on schedule.



I was waiting on my *delayed* 1D X at the time...I subsequently had to wait for the 600 II as well.


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



neuroanatomist said:


> Let's consult the wayback...
> 
> (A devastating C.V. of anti-Canon fist-shaking follows. Bold letters were used. Colored font was used. Neuro's anti-Canon frenzy was not unlike a rampaging Viking who was told that parking would not be free for his longboat. _So much blood._)



I'm floored. _I thought I knew you. _

Enjoy your A7. Don't let the door smack you on the way out. Please send your 1DX and white superteles to my location on your way out.

- A


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## KeithBreazeal (Aug 30, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



neuroanatomist said:


> Like a Jon Stewart without the goat farm? That works for me... ;D



+1 Nailed it! 
If you are a serious video producer, you know that whip pans are not in the tool box. Video cameras are produced for a reason. The main reason people are shooting video with a DSLR is that it's cheaper. Understanding the limitations is the key to good results.


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## crazyrunner33 (Sep 1, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



KeithBreazeal said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Like a Jon Stewart without the goat farm? That works for me... ;D
> ...



Yup, I've never had an issue with rolling shutter on my 5D Mark III, or when using BMCC, GH4 and C100. I shoot with the DSLR because of the form factor, and I love the full frame look on the 5D. The 5D Mark IV isn't going to be in my tool box not because of the rolling shutter, but because of the terrible crop factor in 4K. I would sell everything and use only the 5D Mark IV if they sold an XLR adapter for the hot shoe and could capture 4K over the entire sensor.


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## asmundma (Sep 4, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

It well documented on the internet RS of Sony cameras. One can measure it in ms the delay between top and bottom of the frame, cause by read out speed of the sensor. It is an issue when you pan, the video looks strange. I just bought the 1dx2 which has less then 5d4. By the way I also have a7s2 and a7r2. Its bad on the Sony 6300. On a7r2 differs between FF and S35 modes. So the comments are relevant.


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## makroman (Sep 13, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*

Tested the Low Light Video, handheld. https://youtu.be/NLBtXOmYhiM


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## KeithBreazeal (Sep 13, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



makroman said:


> Tested the Low Light Video, handheld. https://youtu.be/NLBtXOmYhiM



Thanks makroman. Mine comes today and sooo looking forward to testing. I really like how the reds are handled. There is some hope!


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## rolandas (Sep 13, 2016)

*Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?*



makroman said:


> Tested the Low Light Video, handheld. https://youtu.be/NLBtXOmYhiM


Thanks for your efforts. Very poor quality


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