# Shutter speed during video???



## kevarn (May 3, 2012)

Please forgive my lack of understanding, but what exactly is the significance of shutter speed during manual video shooting on a dSLR (5DII)? Can anyone provide or point me to a thorough explanation? I've got the roles of aperture and ISO in video understood, but not shutter speed. How does it factor in/differentiate from video format selection (24/30fps, etc)? 

Thanks for the assistance.


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 3, 2012)

Shutter speed determines how long the sensor reads the image during the frame. So if you are shooting at 30 fps and shutter speed of 1/90 you'd have open shutter for 1/90 of a sec, and closed shutter for 2/90 of a sec. This affects motion blur in the frame, just like it would on a still. For the most "filmic look" you should use 1/50 on the 5dmkii at 24 fps. A film camera would normally shoot at 24 fps with 1/48 shutter speed. This is also known as 180 degree shutter angle, where the shutter is open for the same duration, each frame, as it is closed.


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## cayenne (May 3, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Shutter speed determines how long the sensor reads the image during the frame. So if you are shooting at 30 fps and shutter speed of 1/90 you'd have open shutter for 1/90 of a sec, and closed shutter for 2/90 of a sec. This affects motion blur in the frame, just like it would on a still. For the most "filmic look" you should use 1/50 on the 5dmkii at 24 fps. A film camera would normally shoot at 24 fps with 1/48 shutter speed. This is also known as 180 degree shutter angle, where the shutter is open for the same duration, each frame, as it is closed.



And going higher in shutter speed...will result in a kind of staccato type look, kinda like on Saving Private Ryan on the opening battle scene....is that correct?


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 3, 2012)

I believe Saving Pvt. Ryan battle sequences used a combination of increasing the shutter speed and dropping the fps to achieve that look.


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## kevarn (May 3, 2012)

Thanks for that explanation.

So technically, adjusting the shutter speed through it's range would also alter the "smooth/roughness" of the video, regardless of the fps? Ideally would you set shutter speed to match fps or slightly faster?


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 4, 2012)

kevarn said:


> Thanks for that explanation.
> 
> So technically, adjusting the shutter speed through it's range would also alter the "smooth/roughness" of the video, regardless of the fps? Ideally would you set shutter speed to match fps or slightly faster?



The most typical setting is a 180 degree shutter angle. Which means that for each frame half the time the shutter is open, half the time it is closed. So @ 24fps each frame lasts 1/24 a second, so a 180 deg. shutter would imply a shutter speed of 1/48. You can go slightly slower if you want, but it won't be as "film like", plus the mkii can't go below 1/30 in video mode. 

If you are using a 5D mkii, there is no setting for 1/48, so go with 1/50. Notice that if you want to control your depth of field, you are only left ISO as a degree of freedom unless you use something like a neutral density filter to control the amount of light coming in.


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## Cgdillan (May 4, 2012)

It also of course affects the brightness of the image. Faster being darker, slower being brighter.


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## westr70 (May 4, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Shutter speed determines how long the sensor reads the image during the frame. So if you are shooting at 30 fps and shutter speed of 1/90 you'd have open shutter for 1/90 of a sec, and closed shutter for 2/90 of a sec. This affects motion blur in the frame, just like it would on a still. For the most "filmic look" you should use 1/50 on the 5dmkii at 24 fps. A film camera would normally shoot at 24 fps with 1/48 shutter speed. This is also known as 180 degree shutter angle, where the shutter is open for the same duration, each frame, as it is closed.



This is excellent information. Thanks for sharing.


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## Crapking (May 4, 2012)

What about faster action sports? What settings would produce the least motion blur / least choppiness, and for the sake of us beginners, list ALL the settings / setup procedure. I would like to add video to my volleyball website, and will be shooting with a 5d3, so any help would be appreciated. I was debating taking out a loaner from CPS for one of the HD pro camcorders for our upcoming championships, but would rather stick with my 5d3 if the resulting video would be comparable, less choppy *and* if the learning curve is quick enough. I have a few playoff games to practice with, but assuming we advance, I need to be proficient in exactly 2 wks.


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 4, 2012)

Are you trying for something in a documentary style, or are trying to cover complete games? Do you have a good tripod? Tell me exactly what you are trying to do.


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## Ranga (May 4, 2012)

You are better off shooting with a video camera. Following focus with an open aperture on a large sensor camera is pretty tough especially on the small screen at the back of the DSLR. I recommend an XF305/XF300 You will also need a fluid head tripod or a stabilizer.


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## razbo (May 4, 2012)

So if i was to shoot at 720p at 60 fps the I would keep shutter speed at 120/sec, is that correct?


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## Astro (May 4, 2012)

and only one small notice. because i was asked that a few times.

the mechanical shutter is of course not opening and closing for video.


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## kevarn (May 4, 2012)

Great info and discussion.
Thanks!!


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## Crapking (May 4, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Are you trying for something in a documentary style, or are trying to cover complete games? Do you have a good tripod? Tell me exactly what you are trying to do.



Documentary / highlight roll, not a static 'coaches/spectator' view. We are putting together highlight footage and our regular videographer will be unavailable. I am hoping to learn more from him, but I don't meet with him regularly, and I appreciate the info I get from this forum too. 

We capture isolated plays, emotions of the moment.

Currently, I use a Induro GHb2 gimbal head (or a 327RC joystick, or a 57 series ballhead) on a Manfrotto 055CXPRo 4 (or a 695 series monopod) to stabilze a 70-200 2.8 II on either a 1dIV, 5d3 or 7d. 

Also use any of my primes (135/2, 85, 35) if lighting is bad - which it usually is....

Need to decide soon on the value of getting the loaner pro camcorder or learning the 5d3 (or 7d/1d), but really hoping to have quickest learning curve to achieve least amateurish looking video (despite the fact I am an amateur at video  )

Links to readable resources on the basics of DSLR videos is appreciated, I read the Canon stuff, but am hungry for knowledge outside of the marketing....


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## bluegreenturtle (May 4, 2012)

Crapking said:


> Documentary / highlight roll, not a static 'coaches/spectator' view. We are putting together highlight footage and our regular videographer will be unavailable. I am hoping to learn more from him, but I don't meet with him regularly, and I appreciate the info I get from this forum too.
> 
> We capture isolated plays, emotions of the moment.
> 
> ...



First off, your tripod (head) is not suitable if you want any sort of motion (panning) because it's not a fluid head. If it's not going to move, it doesn't matter what you use as long as it's stable. The good news is there are some very affordable entry level "fluid" heads, if you're willing to spend about $70. 

You don't need to rent a video camera - what you want to do can be done with a 7D. I do it for a living. In terms of focus, yes, you may have to stop down a bit for some of the action. You have to practice focus pulling, and get fast at it. Many still photographers I've worked with on video shoots are really really slow at pulling focus, because they are so used to setting focus, taking a single shot, and that's it. Practice - sit down and let a little kid or a dog run around you and try to keep it in focus, ideally with a viewfinder (LCDVF). 

In terms of the frame rate, think of 24p/1/50th shutter as "normal" (for cinema). If you want a more video look, go to 30p (1/60th), or if you don't mind dropping the resolution to 720, go ahead and shoot at 60, (with a 1/120th shutter) but it will look like TV - 60 frames is what most live television is shot at. I don't use it but I come from a cinema background. 

If you're handholding, the 60p will be easier to deal with, and it depends on how close you can get, a 135mm prime is very hard to handhold even with a rig. 35mm is much easier. In terms of capturing just a play, you have all the equipment you need, except perhaps a LCDVF (which also adds stabilization as it's pressed against your face) and perhaps a rig of some sort.


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 4, 2012)

Have you ever edited the video from your 5D3 before? Do you know how to make sure that you are rendering at the proper fps to avoid ghosting and the like? 

If I was going to do a short clip of highlights, I'd use my 5D3, but I'd plan on shooting the whole match and ending up with about 2 mins of usable game footage + off the court stuff, which is much easier. It'll probably require at least 16GB worth of CF (Make sure you have the right speed of card 60Mbps minimum).

Here are some general tips, assuming that you can get yourself into video mode

1. Find the right white balance. Gym lights can be pretty ugly, and I'd want to try and set the color temperature(its the mode that says K when setting white) to something that looked good on the camera's LCD. 

2. I'd probably start with my 135 lense, and aim for f4.5-5.6. You really want the ISO to be below 1600 for the best look, but i'd go as high as 5200 if I planned on down scaling to 720p. If you find that you can get a lower ISO than 1600, I'd close down to f8 first, then drop ISO as far as it will go. 

3. Shoot in the standard picture profile (default). Go with 30fps, and the slowest possible shutter (1/30 I think). This will make it as smooth as possible. Also. I'd stick to 1080p, so I can pan and scan, and re-frame shots in post(see #4), since panning live is going to be hard. 

4. For Action: Take short clips(<10 secs), since auto focus in video mode is totally nerfed, tracking and zooming is going to be effectively imposable (until you become a Jedi master). You need to frame a bunch of shots, and get lucky. Turn off IS (image stabilization). Use your tripod and make sure you know your focus point by using the zoom button while in live-view.

5. At some point, switch up your lenses, and get some wider shots with the 35mm. If you want to get fancy, you can try and use your zoom to get extreme close-ups of players faces. Remember, if you plan on making the cut in 720p, you can crop to enhance zooms. 

Give this a try for the first game. If everything looks like sh*t, then go to the camcorder. I think you'll know one way or the other. 

Let us know how it works out, and post a clips!

Also, if you plan on doing this stuff in the future, and you have more time to practice, i'd learn how to use one of these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/579907-REG/Glidecam_HD_2000_HD2000_Stabilizer_System.html


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## Crapking (May 4, 2012)

VERY helpful hints, a few more ??'s

I already custom white balance for each of the different gyms I shoot, so I assume the same WB I shoot stills will be the same, correct? 

Shoot Manual ? 30 fps, 1/30 or 1/60? , f 5.6 - f8, and adjust ISO to attain exposure 

and I ASSUME that the 5d3 sensor would allow me to shoot lower ISO c/w the 7d, but if the 7d is 'adequate', I could set up both cameras, the 7d fixed and more WA, and then track / go handheld and tight with 5d3, but how much "post" will I have to do if I use 2 diff bodies? Granted I am probably going to pawn off the post on my videographer, but I'd like to learn to shoot it correctly and avoid common mistakes, which brings me to the compression formats. Between the 7d and 5d3, which format to use for the 5d3? 

Time - synching? Cheap options for a multi-camera shoot? Necessary ??

I do have a 64 GB 90mbs SD card for the 5d and (2) 32 GB 90mbs CF cards for the 7d, so I assume that would be enough storage for (max) 5 games, each lasting 20-30 min's. 

Thanks again, I'll be reading, practicing this weekend but it is always nice to hear ( in advance what to look out for)...


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 4, 2012)

Crapking said:


> VERY helpful hints, a few more ??'s
> 
> I already custom white balance for each of the different gyms I shoot, so I assume the same WB I shoot stills will be the same, correct?
> 
> Shoot Manual ? 30 fps, 1/30 or 1/60? , f 5.6 - f8, and adjust ISO to attain exposure


yes, and yes



Crapking said:


> and I ASSUME that the 5d3 sensor would allow me to shoot lower ISO c/w the 7d, but if the 7d is 'adequate', I could set up both cameras, the 7d fixed and more WA, and then track / go handheld and tight with 5d3, but how much "post" will I have to do if I use 2 diff bodies? Granted I am probably going to pawn off the post on my videographer, but I'd like to learn to shoot it correctly and avoid common mistakes, which brings me to the compression formats. Between the 7d and 5d3, which format to use for the 5d3?
> 
> Time - synching? Cheap options for a multi-camera shoot? Necessary ??



Use inter-frame compression for 5d3 it will sinc up better with the 7D. Post shouldn't be too bad, just make sure you get a similar exposure/white balance. 

I wouldn't worry too much about time synch, if you plan on taking large clips.

Also, at 30fps (inter) the mkiii will eat 60-80 Mbps, that's approx 8MB per second, so shooting continuously will cost you about .4GB per minute. There is also a 29 minute/4GB limit for each clip. So you won't get much more than 11 mins at full resolution.


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## emag (May 5, 2012)

My compliments to everyone. This discussion was both informative and a refreshing read in what can become a snarky world. Virtual beers for all!


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## NormanBates (May 7, 2012)

very good advice indeed

if anyone wants to digg a bit deeper, and maybe learn not only "what" but also "why", I'd suggest this: http://www.similaar.com/foto/tuten/600.html


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## preppyak (May 7, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> 2. I'd probably start with my 135 lense, and aim for f4.5-5.6. You really want the ISO to be below 1600 for the best look, but i'd go as high as 5200 if I planned on down scaling to 720p. If you find that you can get a lower ISO than 1600, I'd close down to f8 first, then drop ISO as far as it will go. [/url]


I agree with most of this except the ISO part. In video, you want to be working in multiples of 160, as that is the native ISO of the video DSLR's from Canon. So, ISO 160/320/640/800/1600 are your go-to's, and skip every other option. ISO 800 has less noise than ISO 125, for example.

http://www.photographybay.com/2011/05/01/proof-that-multiples-of-iso-160-work-best-on-canon-hdslrs/

If you need to go lower to get a shot, it seems that all the ones below 1600 are just noisy in general, so go with whatever works. But, for the 100-1000 range, stick in the multiples of 160 for best results.


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## Crapking (May 9, 2012)

Ended up with the 7d on a tripod to capture the gym / court action and I bought a cheapo PROMASTER shoulder rig to help me shoot with 5d3 and a Hoodman Loupe Viewfinder. A little awkward, and pulling focus was harder than I thought - kudos to you who do this all the time. My files are being processed in FCP (trial version) so will post my newbie highlight reel in a day or two. Thanks for all the great advice, I ended up shooting 720p at 60fps 1/60 5.6, ISO 3200 on the 7d (16-35 at ~ 30 m) and 2000 on the 5d3 with my 70-200. WB was set to 3200 but it ended up being a little cooler in the video than appeared on the viewfinder. How do I correct this in post? Normally for stills I use L, but what cheap options are there for video PP??


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## NormanBates (May 10, 2012)

* most samyang primes are great, cheap lenses, not perfect for stills (only manual focus) but excellent for video (longer focus throw); the 8mm fisheye is spectacular, the 35mm is as sharp as its L and Zeiss counterparts (but bokeh is not as nice), the 85mm is under $300 and just as good as the L and Zeiss, including gorgeous bokeh
http://www.similaar.com/foto/equipment/us_lensc.html#samyang

* for pulling focus, even the cheapest loupes are a great help
http://www.similaar.com/foto/equipment/us_video.html

* 24p looks a lot better than 60p, high frame rates make your footage look like a cheap soap opera, 24p puts it closer to film; I only use 60p for slow motion
http://www.similaar.com/foto/tuten/610.html


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## HurtinMinorKey (May 10, 2012)

I think for sports, you can take it up to 30fps. It takes the edge off, but it still looks cinema-ish (at least to mee).


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