# advice on lens for evening events



## mr.ranger (Mar 16, 2012)

hi, so Ive been asked to do a quinceaneara i will be paid for it. i currently have 60D body, with 60mm f2.8 macro, 18-135 f3.5 and 70-300 L and going to be getting the ex 580 II or EX 600 flashes soon. i have been looking at another lens to ad before this for this kind of events this just little incentive. what would be a good lens to get? i was looking at the ef 35mm f2 and ef 85mm 1.8 any suggestions?


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## NiceShotSteve (Mar 16, 2012)

When you get your flash(es), also get a Gary Fong Lightsphere Cloud. It's a great accessory to soften the harsh light from the flash, and, as an added benefit, people will ask "What the heck is that thing?"


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## wickidwombat (Mar 16, 2012)

on the 60D 50mm f1.4 should be fine (about 80mm)
an 85mm will be quite long

perhaps the sigma 30mm might be worth a look for something a bit wider,

you also dont want to be changing lenses too often so with only one body i would try stick to 2 lenses
1 wider to cover groups etc and one more portrait oriented the 50mm f1.4 is really good for this on the 60D
the tougher choice is how wide and how fast do you want to go maybe rent a 16-35 f2.8L II or buy it if 
i tend to use this for events because the wide angles you can shoot a bit faster anyway and f2.8 is pretty wide anyway if you are shooting a group. typically i will have the 16-35 on 1 bosy and the 50mm or 85mm on another body depending on available space, events can be very crowded so it can be hard to shoot with longer lenses


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## Stephen Melvin (Mar 16, 2012)

mr.ranger said:


> hi, so Ive been asked to do a quinceaneara i will be paid for it. i currently have 60D body, with 60mm f2.8 macro, 18-135 f3.5 and 70-300 L and going to be getting the ex 580 II or EX 600 flashes soon. i have been looking at another lens to ad before this for this kind of events this just little incentive. what would be a good lens to get? i was looking at the ef 35mm f2 and ef 85mm 1.8 any suggestions?




For event photography, the first thing you need to do is upgrade your core lens. In this case, there is an excellent option in the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM. 

You should also get a backup camera body. Perhaps you can borrow one for this event. My 40D's mirror failed at a wedding reception in Cancun. Fortunately, I had my trusty 20D with me, so I could keep shooting.


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## mr.ranger (Mar 16, 2012)

For event photography, the first thing you need to do is upgrade your core lens. In this case, there is an excellent option in the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM. 

You should also get a backup camera body. Perhaps you can borrow one for this event. My 40D's mirror failed at a wedding reception in Cancun. Fortunately, I had my trusty 20D with me, so I could keep shooting.
[/quote]

i was looking at the 17-55 its a nice lens but for only 200 more i could get 24-70L but would that be wide enough on crop?


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## Michael_pfh (Mar 16, 2012)

The 85 1.2L is great for evening events when you do not want/ are not allowed to use a flash


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## Cornershot (Mar 19, 2012)

If you can't get another body, you can work with a single body if you use a lens changer bag. Think Tank has a nice 3 lens (actually two lens and one for the changed lens) shoulder bag that works great. The sections are big enough to hold a 70-200 with hood forward. I'd recommend you put that one in the center since it would be pretty tall. I wish Think Tank would make a 4 lens bag. Tokina 11-16 makes a nice fast wide on a crop.


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## David KM (Mar 19, 2012)

That 85L will be painfully slow when trying to capture an event like a quinceanera, I cover parties / weddings and eventually only use my 85L for staged shots... 35L will be perfect for low light with super quick AF and an EFOV of 56mm on your 60D. Kind of a classic photojournalism lens on a crop.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 19, 2012)

mr.ranger said:


> i was looking at the 17-55 its a nice lens but for only 200 more i could get 24-70L but would that be wide enough on crop?



IMO, 24mm will definitely not be wide enough on APS-C. The 85mm f/1.8 is a great lens (one of the best values in the Canon lineup) - great for tight portraits on APS-C.


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## justsomedude (Mar 19, 2012)

David KM said:


> 35L will be perfect for low light with super quick AF and an EFOV of 56mm on your 60D. Kind of a classic photojournalism lens on a crop.



+1

85L on crop is way too long for event work, giving you an effective focal length of 136mm. You'll be standing incredibly far from your subjects. I often use a 50mm f/1.4 for events, and while it works awesome on my FF 5D, it's 80mm on a crop sensor - which is still enough to make you have to stand 15-20' away from a group of 4-5 people.

As David KM stated, the 35L will give you an awesome photo-journ FOV close to the 50mm standard, with a fast aperture for low light environments and snappy AF. The 56mm equivalent will allow you to stay relatively close to groups to direct and communicate with while shooting, while not being in their noses or across the room. I think the 35L is your ticket...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/162614-USA/Canon_2512A002_Wide_Angle_EF_35mm.html


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 19, 2012)

David KM said:


> That 85L will be painfully slow when trying to capture an event like a quinceanera, I cover parties / weddings and eventually only use my 85L for staged shots...



Sorry, can you explain that further? Slow in what way? I'm guessing focus.


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## Michael_pfh (Mar 19, 2012)

CanineCandidsByL said:


> David KM said:
> 
> 
> > That 85L will be painfully slow when trying to capture an event like a quinceanera, I cover parties / weddings and eventually only use my 85L for staged shots...
> ...



The electronic AF of the 85L is very slow, takes ages to lock focus.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 19, 2012)

Michael_pfh said:


> CanineCandidsByL said:
> 
> 
> > David KM said:
> ...



it is very very slow its well worth testing the sigma f1.4 side by side and you can see a massive speed difference


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## Stephen Melvin (Mar 19, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> it is very very slow its well worth testing the sigma f1.4 side by side and you can see a massive speed difference



Of course, being a Sigma, it may never focus at all.


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## Parallacs (Mar 19, 2012)

I feel like anything past 24mm will be too long on a cropped sensor. The 24mm 1.4 would be fairly wide and be great for low light conditions with no flash. 

However, with quinceaneras, I would imagine you are doing lots of large group shots with a flash. In that case, I would stick with the 18-135 or look at the 10-22 (If you are commited to using EF-S).


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## mr.ranger (Mar 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> mr.ranger said:
> 
> 
> > i was looking at the 17-55 its a nice lens but for only 200 more i could get 24-70L but would that be wide enough on crop?
> ...



thanks neuro!


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## mr.ranger (Mar 20, 2012)

David KM said:


> That 85L will be painfully slow when trying to capture an event like a quinceanera, I cover parties / weddings and eventually only use my 85L for staged shots... 35L will be perfect for low light with super quick AF and an EFOV of 56mm on your 60D. Kind of a classic photojournalism lens on a crop.



good to know!


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## mr.ranger (Mar 20, 2012)

Parallacs said:


> I feel like anything past 24mm will be too long on a cropped sensor. The 24mm 1.4 would be fairly wide and be great for low light conditions with no flash.
> 
> However, with quinceaneras, I would imagine you are doing lots of large group shots with a flash. In that case, I would stick with the 18-135 or look at the 10-22 (If you are commited to using EF-S).



i was hoping to get an ef L lens but ef-s lens is not going to kill me. i was looking at the 16-35L II nice fast lens but little pricy is the mack 1 still available?


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## wickidwombat (Mar 20, 2012)

mr.ranger said:


> Parallacs said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like anything past 24mm will be too long on a cropped sensor. The 24mm 1.4 would be fairly wide and be great for low light conditions with no flash.
> ...


the mk2 16-35 is supossed to be a significant improvement over the mk 1, I've only used the mk 2 so cant confirm
http://www.thedigitalpicture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-16-35mm-f-2.8-L-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx


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## Stephen Melvin (Mar 21, 2012)

Parallacs said:


> I feel like anything past 24mm will be too long on a cropped sensor. The 24mm 1.4 would be fairly wide and be great for low light conditions with no flash.
> 
> However, with quinceaneras, I would imagine you are doing lots of large group shots with a flash. In that case, I would stick with the 18-135 or look at the 10-22 (If you are commited to using EF-S).





mr.ranger said:


> i was hoping to get an ef L lens but ef-s lens is not going to kill me. i was looking at the 16-35L II nice fast lens but little pricy is the mack 1 still available?



I'd recommend the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM. It's a superb lens for your camera, and you'd be surprised at how well they hold their value, when it comes time to upgrade.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 21, 2012)

mr.ranger said:


> Parallacs said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like anything past 24mm will be too long on a cropped sensor. The 24mm 1.4 would be fairly wide and be great for low light conditions with no flash.
> ...


 
I'd recommend a wide prime, a 35mm f/1.4 might be just the thing. f/2.8 is not bright enough to let you use fast shutter speeds when the subjects are moving.


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## RustyTheGeek (Mar 21, 2012)

I shoot various "event" type photography for outdoor camping, scouts, school events and swim meets. Getting a fast lens will only go so far with low light and it won't work miracles. Even if you can get focus lock, you still have dark faces, etc. It always helps to have a small bit of fill flash. Also, consider getting a 5D body (if you're not flush with cash) or a 5D2 so you can utilize the fabulous full frame sensor it provides. It's better with low light than a crop sensor. Then, get a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens. You don't need the version II. Couple that with a decent diffused flash and use flash compensation to dial it down so people don't look like crime scene victims all washed out with a dark background because you're up close. Try using Av on Auto so backgrounds look natural but this will lower the shutter speed so the flash will help with focus unless your subjects are moving a lot. You'll also need to bump the ISO. If this isn't your style, fine, the background will just be dark.

If you decide to get a fast prime, the 24 f/1.4 L is a good lens for both the FF 5D/5D2 and the Crop 60D. (24mm or 38mm) Nothing wrong with the sweet 35L but it gets a little too long on the crop for my taste. I work wide and get up close with a shorter flash duration. I actually use a SunPak RD2000 with a StoFen diffuser most of the time with it dialed down 1 - 2 stops or more. It's small and light. The darker the area, the less flash you need. The Gary Fong is a great diffuser for weddings and stuff but I hate walking around with something like that, esp if you are carrying two bodies. Just get a Sto-Fen diffuser and you'll be fine. Or if you plan to carry two bodies, put the SunPak RD2000 on the candid body and the big flash with the Gary Fong on the other one you plan to do bigger groups with. Either the 580 EX or the 580 EX II will work great for you. Heck, even the 430-II and the older 550 EX II are still excellent flash units. Just don't forget a good diffuser.

Anytime you are shooting available indoor/low light, plan on shooting like crazy with multiple exposures to increase the chance of getting some better shots. If you're fairly new to available light, esp where people are moving, I strongly suggest you start early and practice, practice! You can also lower your exp compensation sometimes to quickly give the shutter speed a small assist when you're in a bind but make sure to put it back!

Last, get Lightroom and shoot RAW. You'll be amazed at how many shots you can bring back from the dead if you are willing to live with a little noise. The only thing you can't fix is poor focus so that's where the practice comes in figuring out what setting compromises you can make for better focus at the cost of bright exp, aperture or ISO.

Good luck and have fun!!!


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## RustyTheGeek (Mar 21, 2012)

Oh, BTW... I've used a EF 28 f/1.8 USM for a long time and I still love that lens. It was my first prime and it's a great low light lens. If you only have a certain amount of $$ to use right now, I would favor getting a 5D and a 28 f/1.8 over a $1000+ L lens on the 60D. But that's just me. Otherwise, I've used the 16-35 L on my 60D with good results but you WILL need a bit of fill flash. I think you'll need some fill flash regardless of which lens you use. One more stop of light in the lens won't make as big of a difference as you might think to get a quality picture in low light. You gotta stop that movement a bit and you gotta light those faces.

Cheers!!


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## prestonpalmer (Mar 21, 2012)

Of all the lenses I pull out of my camera bag, my 16-30mm f/2.8 is on my camera more often than any other. As a professional wedding photographer, I am at evening events twice a week. Have you considered getting one of these? Then you will have it when you upgrade to a full frame body.


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## RustyTheGeek (Mar 21, 2012)

prestonpalmer said:


> Of all the lenses I pull out of my camera bag, my 16-30mm f/2.8 is on my camera more often than any other. As a professional wedding photographer, I am at evening events twice a week. Have you considered getting one of these? Then you will have it when you upgrade to a full frame body.



Yep, big ditto! My 16-35 L lens is my favorite lens for both FF and Crop bodies.


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## Bosman (Mar 22, 2012)

prestonpalmer said:


> Of all the lenses I pull out of my camera bag, my 16-30mm f/2.8 is on my camera more often than any other. As a professional wedding photographer, I am at evening events twice a week. Have you considered getting one of these? Then you will have it when you upgrade to a full frame body.


I had to check your site since you said a 16-30 not a 16-35 was your fav lens lol. Honest mistake I guess. nice site photos by the way.


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## mr.ranger (Mar 22, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> prestonpalmer said:
> 
> 
> > Of all the lenses I pull out of my camera bag, my 16-30mm f/2.8 is on my camera more often than any other. As a professional wedding photographer, I am at evening events twice a week. Have you considered getting one of these? Then you will have it when you upgrade to a full frame body.
> ...



thanks Rusty TheGeek for the Advise I'm planning to get the EX 580II and possibly a smaller slave flash. and yes i have looked at the 16-35L. seems to be a awesome lens.

Mt Spokane Photography thanks for the advise. but with flash will the 2.8 still not be fast enough?


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## wickidwombat (Mar 23, 2012)

mr.ranger said:


> David KM said:
> 
> 
> > That 85L will be painfully slow when trying to capture an event like a quinceanera, I cover parties / weddings and eventually only use my 85L for staged shots... 35L will be perfect for low light with super quick AF and an EFOV of 56mm on your 60D. Kind of a classic photojournalism lens on a crop.
> ...



the sigma 85f1.4 will be fast enough


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## RustyTheGeek (Mar 23, 2012)

mr.ranger said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > prestonpalmer said:
> ...



This is where experience, practice and personal style determine the answer to your question. IMHO, in a real world party scenario, two stops of light (2.8 vs 1.4) in the lens can either make all the difference or not so much. It just depends how you want to shoot, what DOF you can accept/work with and/or what ISO is acceptable. In low light, it's common to expect that expensive and exciting BAA (Big Ass Aperture) lens to be a cure-all, but in reality it will extremely limit what is in the focus plane at f/1.4 and nothing stops blur except more shutter speed which the aperture only partially helps you achieve. (Don't forget the Exposure Triangle!) So, how do you sacrifice/regain your DOF? Change the aperture (+/- DOF/focal plane), shutter speed (+/- blur) or both? Or do you live with more noise and crank up the ISO a bit to help both DOF/Blur? I do a little of it all to vary the way the shots turn out and how I plan to "fix" them later in post. In candid photography, you are often shooting multiple people or little groups laughing, moving and almost never lined up to all be in focus. And you aren't shooting a dark city skyline on a tripod. So don't expect a 1.4 aperture to provide you with a lot of wonderful in-focus/well-lit-in-the-dark people shots. It just ain't gonna happen! At a 1.4 aperture, you will likely see eyes in focus and ears blurred. That means that the person next to them will likely be soft if they are an inch or two forward or back. 2.8 is much more forgiving than 1.4 in this respect. I also keep my eyes peeled for higher levels of available light in the area like windows, lamps, neon, stage lights, campfires, moonlight, etc. A subtle fill flash will help slightly improve the focus and shadows by stopping the movement at the end of the shutter (assuming you use 2nd curtain) which allows a little tighter aperture setting to get more acceptable DOF. In low light you don't need a lot of flash, you need it well diffused and well shaped so it blends in. Bouncing it, letting the diffuser scatter it, whatever it takes. In addition, if you are at an ambient light level that only f/1.4 will allow you to work with, you probably won't be auto-focusing well and will have to manually focus most of the time unless you have a flash with focus assist. At this point, you are on the edge of getting good photos at all. You will need to go to Manual settings and do a lot of multiple exposures to hopefully get a few non-blur shots. It's possible but it will be a challenge.

Again, good luck and HAVE FUN WITH IT. It will be less stressful and more fun if you practice a lot before the actual event!! Practice shooting and practice fixing the shots in post so you know your setting limits that can be "fixed" later. Take insurance shots with the flash and camera on auto "P" if you have to but then change your settings and go for the creative shots that will likely be a lot more interesting and impressive. Otherwise, you might as well just take a point and shoot and provide basic safe pictures like anyone else.


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