# SONY A7RII may be less of an offer than you think



## Maiaibing (Jun 15, 2015)

Got excited and prepared my A7RII pre-order when I suddenly realized that there's no guarantee that current Canon EF to SONY FE adapters will allow for reasonably "fast" AF on the SONY. 

Even if the new SONY focusing system can deliver much faster focus confirmation the adapter speed itself is a key limiting factor.

I still have my ticket for a pre-order later this week. But I will not pull the trigger unless its confirmed that the SONY/adapter/Canon-lens combo actually delivers reasonable AF speed as a package. I can do without F1 AF speed - but not "slow" AF.

Maybe it was all too good to be true...


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 15, 2015)

Who cares about AF? It's the SENSOR that counts.


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## zlatko (Jun 15, 2015)

DPReview is saying that AF works "very well" with a Metabones EF to Sony adapter. Here is a reference to the statement on DPReview:
http://www.cameraegg.org/sony-a7rii-on-sensor-pdaf-works-very-well-with-canon-lenses-via-metabones-adapter/
But that's not a guarantee from Sony.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 15, 2015)

It all depends on how fast is "good enough" and only the individual photographer can answer that question.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 15, 2015)

At the press launch in New York we even got a glimpse of the a7R II autofocusing Canon EF lenses using a Metabones electronic adapter. Focus appeared to be on par with OVF focus on a native Canon body, and the AF experience itself didn't appear to be limited simply because you're using a third party lens (full coverage and tracking are available).

I've also read that support for all AF points was not available, so a test review by someone knowledgable woud be nice. Maybe LULA will get one to play with and try Canon lenses, so far, they just sound like car salesmen, reviewing based on the PR from Sony.

On paper, the camera sounds like something I'd like, but I just can't overlook Sony's reputation for poor reliability, and poorer service.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 15, 2015)

I agree, some real world tests conducted by people who know how to test stuff is needed before anyone makes any decisions.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 15, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Who cares about AF? It's the SENSOR that counts.



Getting old, let's move on


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 15, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> bdunbar79 said:
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> > Who cares about AF? It's the SENSOR that counts.
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Move on to what?


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## Don Haines (Jun 15, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Dylan777 said:
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To the future.... iPad photography!


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## Dylan777 (Jun 15, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Dylan777 said:
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Sorry OP for derailing your post.

1 out of 100000000000000000000000000.....in photography. Learn how to capture light and create photos like these: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Back to topic. If this a7rII has same type of Af in a6000, AF tracking will be great with native lenses. Can't confirm with 3rd party lenses through adaptor.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 15, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> At the press launch in New York we even got a glimpse of the a7R II autofocusing Canon EF lenses using a Metabones electronic adapter. Focus appeared to be on par with OVF focus on a native Canon body, and the AF experience itself didn't appear to be limited simply because you're using a third party lens (full coverage and tracking are available).
> 
> I've also read that support for all AF points was not available, so a test review by someone knowledgable woud be nice. Maybe LULA will get one to play with and try Canon lenses, so far, they just sound like car salesmen, reviewing based on the PR from Sony.
> 
> On paper, the camera sounds like something I'd like, but I just can't overlook Sony's reputation for poor reliability, and poorer service.



I'll keep you updated with AF speed and tracking with native lenses. 

I'll add A-mount to E-mount adaptor for Zeiss 135mm f1.8 and Canon EF adaptor to test a7rII. BTW, the Zeiss 135mm f1.8 A-mount is REALLY good. 

I'm not a high MP shooter, however, I'll put my pre-order for a7rII. Just excited to see 1st FF mirrorless with AF tracking.


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## Tugela (Jun 15, 2015)

Thank you for warning us!! I was all set to order one of these, but thanks to your timely heads up I was able to cancel my order immediately! Phew! Missed bullet!! I guess that proves that Sony is not to be trusted once and for all!!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 15, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Thank you for warning us!! I was all set to order one of these, but thanks to your timely heads up I was able to cancel my order immediately! Phew! Missed bullet!! I guess that proves that Sony is not to be trusted once and for all!!



Why Cancel? There will be lots of test data on prototype cameras that will be so close to production models that it won't affect results. If a issue pops up, then cancel. If you purchase from B&H or Adorama and the camera does not live up to the hype, you have 30 days to return it.

We need lots of early adopters to run interference


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## that1guyy (Jun 16, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for warning us!! I was all set to order one of these, but thanks to your timely heads up I was able to cancel my order immediately! Phew! Missed bullet!! I guess that proves that Sony is not to be trusted once and for all!!
> ...



Obviously his sarcasm went over your head.

I was about to make a similar post. It seems the OP is part of the Canon defense force and clutching at anything to derail Sony's excellent new product. Sorry OP, I don't care what you think. I will buy it if I want to. 

As for the concern over whether third party lenses will work well, let's just wait and see instead of acting panicking.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 16, 2015)

that1guyy said:


> Obviously his sarcasm went over your head.
> 
> I was about to make a similar post. It seems the OP is part of the Canon defense force and clutching at anything to derail Sony's excellent new product. Sorry OP, I don't care what you think. I will buy it if I want to.



Just as it seems the ability to view a member's posting history went over your head. :


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## Ozarker (Jun 18, 2015)

In the gun world we call an AR-15 rifle with upper and lower receivers from different manufacturers "Franken Guns". Now we have "Franken Camera Systems". Not for me. I figure a company like Canon, that designs sublime lenses (and Cameras), will not ultimately be left behind. I'll stick to Canon. Besides, my skills are not going to get any better switching around between systems. I need to stick with Canon's excellent system. Great tools. Talent? That is something no system can give a person. That is something that must be developed, honed, and exercised. I don't have it yet. However, there are many fine photographers who take wonderful photos with the Canon system (and other systems too).. If I can ever get to be half as good as they are... maybe I would look at switching around, but I doubt it.

One thing I do notice, though, is that some people will never be satisfied no matter what. They just like to complain. "Canon sucks" is what I see a lot of here on the forum. Hell, maybe these folks are just terrible photographers and need to blame somebody. Can't get a good bird in flight photo? It must be the camera's fault. Can't get proper exposure? The sensor sucks! Blah, blah, blah. Who was Winnie the Pooh's little donkey friend?

Keep chasing that rainbow! Skill and talent cannot be bought or provided by any camera manufacturer. To some it comes easy. The rest of us have to work at it. Canon has inferior products? B. S. The problem is inferior "photographers". Look at the link Dylan777 provided below. Looks like it was all done with Canon gear. Inferior my a$$. Talent! TALENT!



Dylan777 said:


> bdunbar79 said:
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## 3kramd5 (Jun 18, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> In the gun world we call an AR-15 rifle with upper and lower receivers from different manufacturers "Franken Guns".



Give me an 80% camera and I'm in


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 18, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> > Canon has inferior products? B. S. The problem is inferior "photographers". Look at the link Dylan777 provided below. Looks like it was all done with Canon gear. Inferior my a$$. Talent! TALENT!
> ...



The way I interpreted his post was more generous: upgrading gear, or chasing greener grass, will not necessarily improve your results. However, it may. Whether or not it does is up to the user.


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## ksgal (Jun 18, 2015)

Eeyore


The donkeys name is Eeyore


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## Ozarker (Jun 19, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> 
> > Canon has inferior products? B. S. The problem is inferior "photographers". Look at the link Dylan777 provided below. Looks like it was all done with Canon gear. Inferior my a$$. Talent! TALENT!
> ...



Yes, I am an inferior photographer... but I don't chase rainbows. I believe it was one of Clint Eastwood's characters that said, "A man has got to know his limitations." I know mine. I certainly do not blame my limitations on the supposed failings of Canon. I take all the blame. That's the whole point of the post. I buy the gear I buy because it is what I want. I have no illusions that it will make me a better photographer. I own a nice Martin guitar, but can only play a couple of very simple songs. I don't blame the C.F. Martin guitar company for my own shortcomings.

Yes, to be a great photographer requires immense talent. Just like being a great guitar player, great cook, great painter, or great singer, etc.

The link provided in the post of another that I quoted shows what a great photographer can do with Canon's "inferior" or "lackluster" products.

The idea that Canon is ******* or left in the dust by the likes of Sony is laughable. Great photographers can get results with great gear no matter who makes it. An inferior photographer produces poor quality no matter what gear he uses. He may get lucky now and again, but a real pro is consistent.

Anyone who thinks that switching systems is going to make all the difference in their work is fooling themselves. Blaming a Camera manufacturer for piss poor photos when others produce perfection with the same gear is simply, well... insane.

That is quite different from upgrading or updating.


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## Ozarker (Jun 19, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Maiaibing said:
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Exactly the point.


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## Ozarker (Jun 19, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> > In the gun world we call an AR-15 rifle with upper and lower receivers from different manufacturers "Franken Guns".
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HA! ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Anyone who thinks that switching systems is going to make all the difference in their work is fooling themselves.



Yet some are convinced that when they switch from Canon to Sony last year in August in September someday, it will lift their images from mundane to sublime.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 19, 2015)

I'm considering purchasing a a7rii instead of a 5Ds. I've been using the x100s lately for my high speed sync needs and I could use the a7rii for what I'd use the already slow MF system for. I could sell the hassy, pickup a a7rii with an adapter and tandem it with my x100s for my needs. The issue with the hassy is getting lenses at a reasonable pricing used and being able to use my canon stuff I already have with the a7rii would save me the headache. Per usual though, I won't pay full price and will wait 6 months after release to get a better price / get rid of the initial kinks.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 19, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> I'm considering purchasing a a7rii instead of a 5Ds. I've been using the x100s lately for my high speed sync needs and I could use the a7rii for what I'd use the already slow MF system for. I could sell the hassy, pickup a a7rii with an adapter and tandem it with my x100s for my needs. The issue with the hassy is getting lenses at a reasonable pricing used and being able to use my canon stuff I already have with the a7rii would save me the headache. Per usual though, I won't pay full price and will wait 6 months after release to get a better price / get rid of the initial kinks.



I would take 5Ds/r if I'm in your situation - very simple reason, L glasses.

I combined the A7s & A7rII series in my photography for one thing - size and weight for family trips. There are pros and cons in each systems. I simply don't believe in EF to E-mount will work, at least for the Pros. The only lens that really WOW me in their native lenses is FE55mm. My expectation on new Zeiss Batis lenses is high - crossing my fingers.

Hope you think twice before making a jump.


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## Ozarker (Jun 19, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> > Anyone who thinks that switching systems is going to make all the difference in their work is fooling themselves.
> ...



Yup. It is like saying a better hat will make one smarter. One has nothing to do with the other.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 19, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I'm considering purchasing a a7rii instead of a 5Ds. I've been using the x100s lately for my high speed sync needs and I could use the a7rii for what I'd use the already slow MF system for. I could sell the hassy, pickup a a7rii with an adapter and tandem it with my x100s for my needs. The issue with the hassy is getting lenses at a reasonable pricing used and being able to use my canon stuff I already have with the a7rii would save me the headache. Per usual though, I won't pay full price and will wait 6 months after release to get a better price / get rid of the initial kinks.
> ...


I'd definitely keep my 5d3, there is no doubts on that. It's been a solid workhorse of a camera for the past two years but the issue is its just fine where it's at. I don't see anything canon has released thay makes me want to upgrade from my 5D3. It's fast, effective, the files are great for weddings and quick photojournalist stuff. 

The a7rii using canon glass would be slow. I accept that it will be slow but thay doesn't matter much to me as the hassy is also really slow. The process of setting up lights and tuning my exposure is a slow process and the a7rii wouldn't hinder me even if it was a glacier. I just need a box with a great sensor in it and the a7rii is looking very tempting but I can wait for it to drop in price as all a7 camera do after a few months.

The main reason I didn't buy the a7r was because of being a first Gen product. Just look how much they improved on it enough to peak the many attentions of canon users, include me.


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## meywd (Jun 19, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> Dylan777 said:
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I don't think that the difference between the Sony and Canon sensors is big, and I thought that the difference between FF and MF was big enough for the price difference to not matter for pros, but was the difference only in MPs? The bigger sensor size should be a big difference in comparison, and some like the colors... so is the difference between the MF and FF so small that the a7RII will be enough?


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## RLPhoto (Jun 19, 2015)

I've been using MF for its sync speed and it happens to have lenses I can swap and fantastic IQ. The issue is getting lenses that even used go for 2k$ each and I'd need two more primes. So I've been shooting everything with the 80mm and had it fail on me during a shoot. So meantime I've been using an x100s as a backup/ 35mm equivalent camera to my hasselblad and I've found its been simply amazing for aps-c. It doesn't even come close to the hassy in IQ, but I don't need it to the majority of the time. So, I could replace my MF system with two mirror less cameras, one for the high IQ and the x100s for its sync speed. Maybe down the road when pentax does release a line of leaf shutter lenses and the successor to the 645z, I'll look back into MF. At the moment, the a7rii with all my canon lenses is a very likely purchase.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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Depends on the hat.


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## JClark (Jun 19, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I'm considering purchasing a a7rii instead of a 5Ds. I've been using the x100s lately for my high speed sync needs and I could use the a7rii for what I'd use the already slow MF system for. I could sell the hassy, pickup a a7rii with an adapter and tandem it with my x100s for my needs. The issue with the hassy is getting lenses at a reasonable pricing used and being able to use my canon stuff I already have with the a7rii would save me the headache. Per usual though, I won't pay full price and will wait 6 months after release to get a better price / get rid of the initial kinks.
> ...



As with most things, it depends on the situation. Like you, I have an A7r for the size and convenience when traveling and for my needs (architecture and interiors) the combination works perfectly and make traveling a breeze. It's also one of the few real-life situations (for me at least) where being able to coax cleaner shadows makes a tangible difference to the finished product, as I can't always run a decent lighting setup if I'm going fast and loose.

To be completely fair, given no limitations (travel, time, baggage etc.) it wouldn't be my ideal solution, but as a "best case compromise" scenario, I have a real hard time beating the combination.


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## caMARYnon (Jun 19, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Sorry OP for derailing your post.
> 
> 1 out of 100000000000000000000000000.....in photography. Learn how to capture light and create photos like these: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


Wow, that is art ! And with an old mark 2.


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I'm considering purchasing a a7rii instead of a 5Ds. I've been using the x100s lately for my high speed sync needs and I could use the a7rii for what I'd use the already slow MF system for. I could sell the hassy, pickup a a7rii with an adapter and tandem it with my x100s for my needs. The issue with the hassy is getting lenses at a reasonable pricing used and being able to use my canon stuff I already have with the a7rii would save me the headache. Per usual though, I won't pay full price and will wait 6 months after release to get a better price / get rid of the initial kinks.
> ...



From what I've read, the Sony FE 55mm is truly a WOW lens. But the Zeiss Batis 85mm has 3% pincushion distortion according to Diglloyd:
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2015/20150429_1044-ZeissBatis-85f1_8-MTF.html

That's a pretty sorry number for a $1,200 lens, especially when Canon's 85/1.8 has only 0.24% distortion and costs $349 right now.


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## msm (Jun 19, 2015)

zlatko said:


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And suddenly distortion of a lens is the most important property, because a FE lens has it. Who cares about stuff like:

"The MTF chart shows excellent micro contrast wide open at f/1.8 with highly uniform sharpness corner to corner at all apertures. Overall contrast is superb wide open, even into the corners.

Peak performance is reached at center by f/2.8, but the variation (wave inflection) across the field looks to be a mild field curvature; stopping down a bit more delivers outstanding micro contrast at f/5.6, far exceeding most lenses and no less good than the very best Leica M lens. "

It is not like distortion is hard to correct, and I bet the Batis beats the crap out of the Canon lens even after you check the box for correcting it.

It is funny reading these forums.


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

msm said:


> zlatko said:
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Who said distortion is "the most" important property? Heavy distortion is associated with cheap lenses. What's remarkable is finding this level of distortion in a not-so-cheap $1,200 lens. If Canon made an 85mm with that much distortion, we'd be hearing the usual repetitions of how Canon is milking customers and not being innovative and how the marketing dept. is to blame.

What's funny is how heavily and persistently some people promote everything Sony on a Canon rumors forum.


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## msm (Jun 19, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Who said distortion is "the most" important property? Heavy distortion is associated with cheap lenses. What's remarkable is finding this level of distortion in a not-so-cheap $1,200 lens. If Canon made an 85mm with that much distortion, we'd be hearing the usual repetitions of how Canon is milking customers and not being innovative and how the marketing dept. is to blame.
> ...



Well you didn't find it worth to mention the other stuff from the review so I can only guess you didn't feel that was as important...



> What's funny is how heavily and persistently some people promote everything Sony on a Canon rumors forum.



Oh, you mean like you and certain other individuals "heavily and persistently" try to promote Canon and try to discredit Sony/Nikon at any opportunity?


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## quod (Jun 19, 2015)

msm said:


> Oh, you mean like you and certain other individuals "heavily and persistently" try to promote Canon and try to discredit Sony/Nikon at any opportunity?


+1000


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## sdsr (Jun 19, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> The way I interpreted his post was more generous: upgrading gear, or chasing greener grass, will not necessarily improve your results. However, it may. Whether or not it does is up to the user.



Hard to disagree with the basic point, but I'm pretty sure that since I decided I liked using old manual lenses, I've been generally taking better photos - for all the reasons usually given (the process slows you down, you have to think more about what you're photographing and why, etc.); so in a sense that's improving by *down*grading. But only in part - it is, ironically, the most recent mirrorless cameras that make such downgrading easier .... 

As for the original post, I'm more than a tad skeptical about Metabones AF speed too (via mine on my a7r, manual focusing is usually faster); nice if it proves true, of course.


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## quod (Jun 19, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Keep chasing that rainbow! Skill and talent cannot be bought or provided by any camera manufacturer.


Ah yes! But clean shadows can be bought [from Sony] and provided for [by Sony]. I will chase that clean shadowed rainbow as far as it will take me.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2015)

quod said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> > Keep chasing that rainbow! Skill and talent cannot be bought or provided by any camera manufacturer.
> ...



I'm sure you'll find greener grass at the end of that rainbow. Why are you still here, exactly? :


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## zlatko (Jun 19, 2015)

msm said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Who said distortion is "the most" important property? Heavy distortion is associated with cheap lenses. What's remarkable is finding this level of distortion in a not-so-cheap $1,200 lens. If Canon made an 85mm with that much distortion, we'd be hearing the usual repetitions of how Canon is milking customers and not being innovative and how the marketing dept. is to blame.
> ...



Diglloyd presents one number (% distortion) that is easy to compare objectively to Canon's, and the Zeiss lens fared poorly in comparison. His other comments about the lens are favorable, but don't offer a basis for objective comparison. So yes, I highlighted that poor performance as a counterpoint to all of the endless Canon-bashing on this forum.

It's a Canon gear forum — a perfect place to point out Canon's advantages — especially in light of the constant Canon-bashing comments.

I don't go on Sony or Nikon forums to complain about their products. That would be silly. If I had a preference for some other brand, I would be _using_ that other brand and wouldn't be here everyday complaining about Canon. That would be silly — but some people seem to do it all of the time.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 20, 2015)

zlatko said:


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My 2cents: Zeiss Batis 85mm and ef 85mm f1.8 are not on the same league. Batis will give better results over all, from build quality to rendering. 

I do agree EF 85mm is a good lens for $$$.


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## Tugela (Jun 20, 2015)

zlatko said:


> What's funny is how heavily and persistently some people promote everything Sony on a Canon rumors forum.



Except that this particular part of the board is about cameras other than Canon:

"Industry news that *doesn't* pertain to Canon"

So promoting non-Canon products is perfectly acceptable here, and in fact is what this part of the board is about.


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## meywd (Jun 20, 2015)

quod said:


> msm said:
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> > Oh, you mean like you and certain other individuals "heavily and persistently" try to promote Canon and try to discredit Sony/Nikon at any opportunity?
> ...



No body discredit Nikon or Sony, the only ones who are discredited are the ones promoting Sony and bashing Canon without logic, no body discredit jrista or Dylan for example because they are people who logicly present their opinion and back it up with facts.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 20, 2015)

sdsr said:


> 3kramd5 said:
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> > The way I interpreted his post was more generous: upgrading gear, or chasing greener grass, will not necessarily improve your results. However, it may. Whether or not it does is up to the user.
> ...



You can slow down and shoot methodically with AF lenses too. If you have to hamstring yourself to force it, that's a discipline problem


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## zlatko (Jun 20, 2015)

Tugela said:


> zlatko said:
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> > What's funny is how heavily and persistently some people promote everything Sony on a Canon rumors forum.
> ...



Right you are, but the Sony promoters are all over the forum, not just Industry news. I don't promote Canon advantages on a Sony or Nikon rumors forum, even in their Industry news board. It would be silly. But that doesn't stop people from pushing the Sony sensor here every day.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 20, 2015)

Exactly the point. The Sonikon hypocrites can't just say, wow, Sony has a great camera here. It always has to be, wow Sony made a great camera, a Canon sucks, Canon's in trouble. Canon better respond. I guess I'm just getting sick of the Sony and Nikon children.


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## quod (Jun 20, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'm sure you'll find greener grass at the end of that rainbow. Why are you still here, exactly? :


Why are you trolling the Sony threads, exactly? :


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## zlatko (Jun 20, 2015)

dilbert said:


> zlatko said:
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So you have to compare a short telephoto prime to two zooms, one super-wide to wide and the other wide to tele, to make this point? Really? 

By the way, have you got your Sony yet?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 20, 2015)

quod said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > I'm sure you'll find greener grass at the end of that rainbow. Why are you still here, exactly? :
> ...



Check around your residence for something that looks like this:







It might help you spot the troll.


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## quod (Jun 20, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> It might help you spot the troll.


You haven't presented one comment that is remotely neutral or positive about the benefits that Sony's presence in the camera marketplace. On the contrary, you metastasize to every Sony thread with snarky comments and embellishments of Canon innovation, marketing success, yada yada yada. That's troll behavior. Perhaps you could post 16,000+ posts in the "5DS is awesome" threads because some of us are actually excited about what Sony has to offer.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 20, 2015)

quod said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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ahem



neuroanatomist said:


> Tugela said:
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> > Well done Sony. If only Canon could show a bit of vision, even a smidge
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## TeT (Jun 20, 2015)

Can I get a Canon Defense Force Badge for my camera bag?


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## zlatko (Jun 20, 2015)

dilbert said:


> zlatko said:
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Oh please, the point wasn't _just_ about price. 3% pincushion distortion is ridiculously high for _any_ 85mm lens, regardless of price. 85mm lenses typically have very low distortion. Wide angle zooms typically have more distortion; it's much harder to design out. Sony's zooms have at least as much distortion as Canon's and don't cost less, so no advantage there. 

Still wondering ... have you got your Sony yet?


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## that1guyy (Jun 20, 2015)

quod said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > It might help you spot the troll.
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+1000

Neuro is best left ignored. Just watch as he doesn't' reply to your comment and will resurface when someone posts another Sony or Nikon related comment/thread and offer some idiotic remark discrediting that Sony/nikon product.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 20, 2015)

zlatko said:


> It's a Canon gear forum — a perfect place to point out Canon's advantages — especially in light of the constant Canon-bashing comments.



Fanboys have an easy, carefree life with all the answers in stock "My brand is the greatest and has no faults". However, I prefer facts and to meet the realities of life with an open mind.

I have invested more in Canon gear over the last decade than 99.99% of Canon users and got myself a brand new 6D this week. I'll bash, hammer, complain about every single shortfall I can find with any Canon gear that does not live up to my expectations or current tech levels. Its my money and I want the best. Always. I've also posted lots of factual reviews, tests and samples to show what I am talking about.

I'm on preorder for the new SONY and I'll bash, hammer, complain about every single shortfall I can find with that camera too. I am sure SONY fanboys will attack me for that too. In fact that has already happened earlier in this thread. Twice. For no reason at all.

Such is the life of forums.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 20, 2015)

quod said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > It might help you spot the troll.
> ...



You need to read more. 




that1guyy said:


> Neuro is best left ignored. Just watch as he doesn't' reply to your comment and will resurface when someone posts another Sony or Nikon related comment/thread and offer some idiotic remark discrediting that Sony/nikon product.



Then feel free to do so. Also feel free to continue making insightful and pithy comments like this one:



that1guyy said:


> So they're copying Sony's A7 line. canon is *******.



I guess you need that mirror, too. :


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## Dylan777 (Jun 20, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



I saw this video on SR: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/kai-reviews-the-new-batis-lenses-bloody-awesome-image-quality/


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## zlatko (Jun 20, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > It's a Canon gear forum — a perfect place to point out Canon's advantages — especially in light of the constant Canon-bashing comments.
> ...



Canon has faults, just as any system has faults. Of course there are things that could be improved. Still, Canon has quite a lot going for it. Enough for me to want to counter the constant barrage of Sony promotion, always harping about low ISO DR, low ISO DR, low ISO DR. Yeah, I've heard it ~1,000 times now. Those who feel that Sony's new camera has "killed" the latest from Canon really ought to put their money where their mouth is. You've done that, so good for you! Some others should do the same. Instead of harping about Sony's low ISO DR, just buy the thing already if it means that much.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 20, 2015)

zlatko said:


> harping about low ISO DR, low ISO DR, low ISO DR. Yeah, I've heard it ~1,000 times now.



However, never from me. My wish list for Canon is only: 36 MPIX, excellent 12800 iso or better, 6 fps+. Rest is nice to have. ;D


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## fragilesi (Jun 23, 2015)

dilbert said:


> You linked distortion to the price tag, I merely completed your linkage by pointing out that you can spend the same or more on Canon lenses (that people praise quite highly for other reasons) and also get stupid amounts of distortion. Feel free to remove price from the discussion.
> 
> The other conclusion to draw from this is that because you don't see people harping on here about the high levels of distortion with the 16-35/f2.8 II that distortion isn't as big of an issue as it is made out to be.



Come on, for sanity's sake surely you can't be trying to make a serious comparison here though? Can you?


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## emko (Jun 23, 2015)

actually its the 5DS that has less of an offer, 

Sony Senior General Manager of the Digital Imaging Business Group Kimio Maki 

2) About the Canon 5ds:
We wanted to overcome the idea that has been prevalent since as long as there have been digital cameras, that you can have one virtue [resolution] or the other [sensitivity] but you can never have both. Look at the Canon EOS 5DS. A maximum ISO sensitivity of 6400, and crippled movie capability. Canon says that it intentionally created the camera to fit the requirements of certain photographers, and [has thereby demonstrated] that the material science of their device technology [cannot] accomplish both objectives. 

Canon just ripping us off making countless cameras for specific purposes while Sony making a camera people want. So if you want a camera that does high MP, high ISO, 4k video? well with Canon you need 3 cameras what a great deal.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 23, 2015)

emko said:


> Sony Senior General Manager of the Digital Imaging Business Group Kimio Maki
> 
> 2) About the Canon 5ds:
> We wanted to overcome the idea that has been prevalent since as long as there have been digital cameras, that you can have one virtue [resolution] or the other [sensitivity] but you can never have both.



So we shouldn't expect a Sony A7S II which trades resolution for sensitivity?


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## MARKOE PHOTOE (Jun 23, 2015)

dilbert said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...


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## quod (Jun 24, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> So we shouldn't expect a Sony A7S II which trades resolution for sensitivity?


Amazingly enough, you get both with the A7RII. How about that! The 5DS... well, you get muddy resolution.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 24, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...




But --- A better hat might keep your brain cooler, which increases your ability to do more thinking  I definitely think that a better hat is more likely to make you smarter than a new camera will improve your photography.

That does not stop me from wanting better gear, I like good gear, but my wife takes better photos than me with her point and shoot. My fancy gear can't change that. However, she calls on me to take photos where there is not enough light for her camera to work.

I use my equipment in low light where good photographers with equipment that can't capture images well in low light give up and let me do it. Then they think my photos are so good! I know better.


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## Oneand0 (Jun 24, 2015)

Maiaibing,

Too bad for you that is! I decided not to read all the in between comments and just let you know that I don't even use my 6D to focus automatically. I use it for landscape and video (manual focus). Sony A7r II is a dream come true for me. Stick with Canon and be happy  I'll go the other way and improve what I do with limitations that have been lifted by Sony. Sony's decision to listen to it's customers and strive to improve the technology, to a point it's drawing away faithful customers from other brands, is the reason I'm changing camera bodies at this point.


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## raptor3x (Jun 24, 2015)

dilbert said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



First, you're comparing extreme ends of zooms with primes; second, you're leaving those numbers without any context. The 4% distortion from the 24-105L is maybe it's most well known weakness but has been significantly reduced in the more recently 24-70L lenses. In addition, look at the competition: Sigma 24-105 A (3.7%), Nikkor 24-120 (3.55%), Sony 24-70 (3.8%), 24-70L f/4 (2.4%), and just for laughs the Olympus 12-40 (8.5%). The 24-105L certainly has a weakness in terms of barrel distortion at the wide end, but it's not like it's that's far away from the others.

As for the 16-35 at 3.26%, it doesn't look so bad when you see that none of the Nikkor wide angle zooms get below 3.5% at the wide end [16-35 f/4 VR ==> 4.5%, 14-24 ==> 3.91%, 17-35 ==> 3.5%].

That said, I can't imagine anyone caring about some distortion in the Batis. If nothing else, I think Olympus has pretty effectively demonstrated with the 12-40 that correcting for distortion optically can be a wasted effort.


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## ishdakuteb (Jun 24, 2015)

dilbert said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



you pay $X amount for gears but capture images that you cannot even show people, after showing worse images that you thought they were best? mine are not best, but guarantee that those are absolutely better than yours... 

again... buy your new sony and compete with my 7d. let you see another landscape images from my 7d... you keep talking, i keep improving... LOL

note: both images were captured with Canon 7D and 70-200mm

image 1: could not hike further to find a clear shot for wide angle lenses since i had no water with me due to no experience in preparing for landscape trip

image 2: still showing details isn't it and that is from Canon 7D 

almost forget to remind you once again that i am still not a HDR shooter...


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## caMARYnon (Jun 24, 2015)

dilbert said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > First, you're comparing extreme ends of zooms with primes; second, you're leaving those numbers without any context. The 4% distortion from the 24-105L is maybe it's most well known weakness but has been significantly reduced in the more recently 24-70L lenses. In addition, look at the competition: Sigma 24-105 A (3.7%), Nikkor 24-120 (3.55%), Sony 24-70 (3.8%), 24-70L f/4 (2.4%), and just for laughs the Olympus 12-40 (8.5%). The 24-105L certainly has a weakness in terms of barrel distortion at the wide end, but it's not like it's that's far away from the others.
> ...


It doesn't matter that you made a comparison between apples and oranges, the only important thing for you is to respond to somebody, to anybody, to everybody !!!


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## Krob78 (Jun 24, 2015)

dilbert said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


Yes! And your first and primary point was they were comparing distortion of primes to distortion in zooms, what the heck is that? You're absolutely right Dilbert, especially point one...


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## Krob78 (Jun 24, 2015)

quod said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > So we shouldn't expect a Sony A7S II which trades resolution for sensitivity?
> ...


So I guess there will be no A7R III then? They've arrived!


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## ishdakuteb (Jun 24, 2015)

dilbert said:


> ishdakuteb said:
> 
> 
> > you pay $X amount for gears but capture images that you cannot even show people, after showing worse images that you thought they were best? mine are not best, but guarantee that those are absolutely better than yours...
> ...



no... and again... i am here most of the time:
1. be quiet and learn from others, or
2. respond to your silly posts (yes, only your post most of the time to be honest) 

don't believe it, go and see yourself to believe it... so to speak, you are still seeing my landscape images posted to respond your posts. WHY? REMEMBER, THE MAIN PURPOSE THAT I HAVE LEARNED LANDSCAPE PHOTOGRAPHY IS TO TALK TO YOU. i still do like capturing people/journalism like to back old day though... anyways... still hide away your CRAPPY IMAGES LOL


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 24, 2015)

ishdakuteb said:


> THE MAIN PURPOSE THAT I HAVE LEARNED LANDSCAPE PHOTOGRAPHY IS TO TALK TO YOU.



Something good came from trolling? Wow!


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## RGF (Jul 9, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



Nice images. More than the sensor, skill processing the image. Real skill


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 9, 2015)

RGF said:


> Back to topic. If this a7rII has same type of Af in a6000, AF tracking will be great with native lenses. Can't confirm with 3rd party lenses through adaptor.



DPR has a good article on AF of the A&R II. They start out telling us how great it is, but then at the end, they tell you the limitations, or pass over them.

The camera seems to work well in some modes with native lenses, but not so well in other modes. The tester had not tested video, but in the comments, others said it does not track using phase detect for video, but reverts to slow contrast detect.

With a Canon lens adapted, tracking is pretty much worthless, since all points are active, and the camera picks the subject it wants to track. You can select AF points in other modes, so its good for still subjects.

The Canon patent for a pellicle mirror seems to be able to work around all the AF limitations, but loses light due to the half silvered mirror.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Got excited and prepared my A7RII pre-order when I suddenly realized that there's no guarantee that current Canon EF to SONY FE adapters will allow for reasonably "fast" AF on the SONY.
> 
> Even if the new SONY focusing system can deliver much faster focus confirmation the adapter speed itself is a key limiting factor.
> 
> ...



I had high hopes. But there are now lots of real life people out there saying that exactly the Canon lenses I wanted to use the most with the SONY cannot AF with it or only slowly; 135L, 70-200 f/2.8 IS L II and 300 f/2.8 IS L II.

My pre-ordered SONY was set for delivery with the sloooowwww boat. So I actually have not tried it myself - but the reports are consistent enough for me to decide against the experiment for now. Only good thing is that I will actually earn some money on the exchange rate difference (like 80$) with the stop-delivery. ;D.

Some Canon lenses seem to work very well. But check if you are considering going dual system.

Back to square one...


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## old-pr-pix (Aug 10, 2015)

Recent brief TN video comparing a7rII versus the usual suspects, both stills and video. AF experience with Canon lenses and Metabones Mark IV adapter was much better than Commlite adapter; but, still mixed performance. Up to ~ 300 mm seemed o.k., over 300 mm - i.e. long end of 100-400 mm zoom and 400 mm & 500 mm primes - performance was "not usable." Tracking seemed much improved but not fantastic.

Watch and draw your own conclusions. Remember, it's TN so not terribly scientific.
https://youtu.be/C1kI4NacaUw


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