# Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 13, 2015)

```
There isn’t a lot coming out of the rumor mill currently. This generally means there is nothing significant coming in the near future, which isn’t a surprise, as summer is generally a slow time of year for product launches.</p>
<p>The most highly anticipated product from Canon is the EOS 5D Mark IV and we’re only getting small bits of information, below is list of the latest information we’ve heard about the camera, not much is new outside of the ship date.</p>
<ul>
<li>The EOS 5D Mark IV will come after the EOS-1D X Mark II announcement.</li>
<li>Q1 of 2016 is the ship time Canon is aiming for.</li>
<li>EOS 5D Mark IV will have 4K.</li>
<li>New Speedlite metering system coming with the EOS-1D X Mark II & EOS 5D Mark IV.</li>
<li>Sensors ranging from 18mp to 28mp are in testing for full frame cameras.</li>
<li>EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R a test for “two model viability”, a model split of the EOS 5D Mark IV still possible. (Though, we think unlikely)</li>
<li>New DIGIC processor</li>
</ul>
<p>The EOS C300 Mark II starts shipping in September, so I doubt we’ll see a 4k DSLR launching at the same time.</p>
<p>There is also the Canon EXPO in September, which might give us some clues about the future of the DSLR.</p>
<p>There has been some suggestions of an NAB launch in April for the EOS 5D Mark IV, but I don’t see that happened as I suspect a new Cinema EOS camera will come for that show. While it will have a lot of video oriented features, it’s still considered stills camera.</p>
<p>Is an EOS 5D C possible?</p>
<p>Anything’s possible, but we still put it as unlikely.</p>
```


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

Thank you Sony for getting 4K onto the 5D Mark IV!

Will the Mark IV use CFast (600MB/s max read/write) & SDXC UHS-II (312MB/s max read/write) memory cards?

Or will they stick to CF (167MB/s max read/write) & SDXC UHS-I (104MB/s max read/write) memory cards?

Will it omit the optical low pass filter?

I hope the selling price is below $4,000. Like say $3,000.


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## Light_Pilgrim (Jun 13, 2015)

There is not much that Canon can offer for landscape photographers these days. Sad, because there is a great lens (11-24) that could greatly benefit from a better sensor. As a landscape photographer, I am not holding my breath, I do not think Canon has anything to respond to Sony sensors and are likely years behind when it comes to DR. All I can say.


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## HaroldC3 (Jun 13, 2015)

It doesn't matter what Canon announces, it's already lost to the A7rii. Next up a7000...


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## AlexB (Jun 13, 2015)

I hope they don't make the 5D mark IV their next 4K DSLR. It's a stills camera, its primary use is stills, and that's the market Canon aims at. As a stills shooter I would not want to pay an extra premium for the new 5D IV's amazing video features. And if it's not at a price premium, I suspect it probably won't be as good as everybody want it to be.

Instead, I'd much rather see them releasing a new and improved C-model, either 5Dc or 1Dc II, and have them do it properly. Implement actual video features. CFast card slot for high bit rate recording, exposure tools like waveform, live histogram, proper focusing aids, etc. Though it would be sad if they went sky high on the price again though like the 1Dc. A happy medium maybe?

Anyway, that's just my thoughts and dreams. Maybe they'll do both.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

Dude, it's CFast not C-fast. :

Having CFast or SDXC UHS-II memory slots would allow for higher fps continuous shooting at higher MP, highter dynamic range and higher bit rates. All these wonderful things need a faster DiGiC processor that can write to faster memory cards.

And starting with the 5D Mark II the 5D line has become popular to both still and video people. Canon must include 4K resolution video recording because other brands like Sony have them already for less than $3,200 on a full frame mirrorless body.

I expect Canon to make announcement by August 2015 when Sony starts shipping their a7R II.

Limited availability by December and volume availability by 2016.



AlexB said:


> I hope they don't make the 5D mark IV their next 4K DSLR. It's a stills camera, its primary use is stills, and that's the market Canon aims at. As a stills shooter I would not want to pay an extra premium for the new 5D IV's amazing video features. And if it's not at a price premium, I suspect it probably won't be as good as everybody want it to be.
> 
> Instead, I'd much rather see them releasing a new and improved C-model, either 5Dc or 1Dc II, and have them do it properly. Implement actual video features. C-fast card slot for high bit rate recording, exposure tools like waveform, live histogram, proper focusing aids, etc. Though it would be sad if they went sky high on the price again though like the 1Dc. A happy medium maybe?
> 
> Anyway, that's just my thoughts and dreams. Maybe they'll do both.


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## leGreve (Jun 13, 2015)

Even if Canon makes the 5D4 on par with the A7r II, it will probably end up being weaker than the next A7s II....

Canon fucked up, and they will ****** up even more if they make it a split path camera.


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## K (Jun 13, 2015)

I find it interesting how the initial rumors seemed so sure of 2 models, whereas now it is a question dependent on the 5DS.

I have no data to back this up, it's just a hunch - but I would say that the 5DSR is going to outsell the 5DS by a wide margin. Many photographers, including pros want the sharpest possible image. 

Professionals and serious enthusiasts who truly know what they are doing are now in the minority of consumers for these cameras. These are the last hold outs and supporters of the AA filter. Canon always wants to deliver the best IQ it can, and that is why they put the AA filter on their sensors. They, like truly knowledgeable people, knows that a slight increase in sharpness is not worth the trade off in increased moire or artifacts in an image. 

The problem is, this requires a trained eye. You have to point it out to people. Worse, in the modern DSLR age where anyone with $2K is now a "pro photographer"...creators of images and content are equally as ignorant or non-caring of these types of image quality flaws as their customer base.

Thus, aliasing has become a non-factor - even though it is there and it does harm image quality. It has now been relegated to the realm of being just another standard or topic for photo critics who are analyzing all aspects of technique.


Nikon has been through this experiment, and has dumped the AA filter. There's no reason why this won't be the same in the Canon world. Canon even penalizes those who don't want the AA filter by making that camera more expensive - yet I believe it will outsell the less expensive 5DS.


All that said, the 5DSR will win out. So it stands to reason that if Canon wants to see if 2 models of the same camera is viable, they will find out it is not and if they are using that to decide on the 5D4, then the 5D4 is going to be ONE MODEL only.



5D4 is shaping up to have:


28MP
4K

AA filter or not? I would say it will have the AA filter despite the 5DSR showing to be more popular than the 5DS. The reason is, if this thing is going to have 4K and be also setup as a good video camera - they will want the most moire free video. Unless they feel that 28MP and 4K is enough resolution to overcome most moire, it will have an AA filter.



Two models of camera seems silly. I have no doubt they did experiment with an 18MP version, which would have been the 1DX sensor moved down into the 5D line. 


As far as we know, this will be 28MP of the same sensor tech in the 5DS and 7D2, maybe a little improved in some ways. We can hope.


Canon really needs to deliver in the ISO realm. No matter what kind of AF they put in this thing, the 5D3's AF is decent enough that there's NOTHING they have that would be huge leap in AF. So, AF won't be the selling point.

28MP is great and all, that's a good jump. But with 36MP Nikon, 42MP Sony, and the 50MP 5DS...MP isn't the selling point.


All the other features, new metering system, new viewfinder, better menus, anti-filcker. That's all wonderful and all - but not game changers.

FPS is a big unknown. Hard to imagine it will be more than 8 or 9. 


Thus, the areas of improvement that could really sell would be:


4K for all the video nuts out there
Better ISO performance which appeals to everyone.
More DR which is helpful.

4K to me a given based on my many posts in the past explaining why this is a must have. Canon cannot skip it.


Thus, it comes down to ISO.


This thing will need to have native ISO high of 51K and be noticeably cleaner at all lower ISO's.

With all the brutal competition from high megapixel sensors out there....it will need to be an ISO beast. These high resolution sensors are making the noise "smaller" and thus people think the images are cleaner. To get that kind of "look", lower res sensors will need to do even better.

I know, it's not technically correct - but what sells isn't always technically best. Just like the AA filters. They are better for the vast majority of photographers. Canon offers this to try and do what is best for consumers to provide the best IQ. But consumers don't always know what is best for them, nor want others to decide for them.


$$$$ wins in the end. So, Canon does yield to market demand (slowly though).


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## Orangutan (Jun 13, 2015)

AlexB said:


> I hope they don't make the 5D mark IV their next 4K DSLR. It's a stills camera, its primary use is stills, and that's the market Canon aims at. As a stills shooter I would not want to pay an extra premium for the new 5D IV's amazing video features.


As has been explained (and demonstrated) previously, video features almost certainly reduce the price of DSLRs rather than increase them. The TL;DR is this: a DSLR without these video features will have much lower sales volume, driving up the per-unit R&D cost, which drives up retail price. The Nikon Df should have put this misconception to rest permanently.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

I hope all future EOS bodies will omit the optical low pass filter like the 36.3MP D810, 24.2MP D7200, 24.2MP D5500 and 24.2MP D3300.

Orangutan thanks for pointing out that the Nikon Df has no video.


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## Orangutan (Jun 13, 2015)

leGreve said:


> Canon F_____ up, and they will ****** up even more if they make it a split path camera.


So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.

Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.


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## Orangutan (Jun 13, 2015)

dolina said:


> I hope all future EOS bodies will omit the optical low pass filter like the 36.3MP D810, 24.2MP D7200, 24.2MP D5500 and 24.2MP D3300.


What about moiré? At this point, I'm not sure I'd buy a prosumer camera that didn't have an OLDP if I had a choice, the marginal sharpness is not worth it. For a studio or landscape specialist I could understand, but for a generalist (i.e. consumer) camera it's not warranted.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.
> 
> Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.


Not to mention Canon like other companies communicate exhaustively with their major customers who actually buy regularly and mostly in bulk.

This excludes internet trolls.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> What about moiré? At this point, I'm not sure I'd buy a prosumer camera that didn't have an OLDP if I had a choice, the marginal sharpness is not worth it. For a studio or landscape specialist I could understand, but for a generalist (i.e. consumer) camera it's not warranted.


It appears to be a non-problem for Nikon with their high pixel density bodies. The only Nikon bodies with it are the 24.3MP D750 and 16.2MP D4S that are both full frame.

Based on Nikon's design decisions the 5D Mark IV should have at least 36.3MP for the omission of the optical low pass filter.


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## Orangutan (Jun 13, 2015)

dolina said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > What about moiré? At this point, I'm not sure I'd buy a prosumer camera that didn't have an OLDP if I had a choice, the marginal sharpness is not worth it. For a studio or landscape specialist I could understand, but for a generalist (i.e. consumer) camera it's not warranted.
> ...


At some point pixel density makes it a non-problem, but I'm not convinced we're there yet for consumer/prosumer bodies. I just did a quick google: there are still reports of moire in fabrics with these bodies. I guess it depends on what you shoot.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> At some point pixel density makes it a non-problem, but I'm not convinced we're there yet for consumer/prosumer bodies. I just did a quick google: there are still reports of moire in fabrics with these bodies. I guess it depends on what you shoot.



Going back to the "video adds cost" I would like to thank you and Nikon for debunking this.

The price rise is largely caused by the industry-wide declining sales of dedicated still cameras.

While smartphones are getting cheaper our SLRs become more expensive as fewer bodies get sold year after year starting in 2011.


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## preppyak (Jun 13, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> leGreve said:
> 
> 
> > Canon F_____ up, and they will ****** up even more if they make it a split path camera.
> ...


Yep. And their success was by making the 5D3 a really great camera for event/wedding shooting and targeting a market that would sell well. They need to keep that up with the 5DIV as well, keep targeting that market and maybe expand a little. They've lost the video game, both in terms of ProRes/Raw video, and in terms of 4k. So, it's nice the 5DIV will have 4k, but, if they are building their strategy around that, its gonna end poorly.

Innovate with auto-focus, innovate with flash sync, etc. Still tons of money to be made on stills cameras that happen to shoot video for the pro and prosumer market.

But if Sony figures out its lens line, or if their third-party AF is as good as they say in the A7rII, then Canon will be in trouble long-term


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## gdanmitchell (Jun 13, 2015)

Regarding: "EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R a test for “two model viability”, a model split of the EOS 5D Mark IV still possible. (Though, we think unlikely)"...

I doubt that the 5DIV itself would be split into two models. Instead, I think that we are already seeing the split of the 5D line into a "D" and a "Ds" component, with the first half (the 5Ds models) already released and newer 5D (IV) being the other half.

That would be precisely in line with the old differentiation between the 1D and 1Ds variants. With the overall pricing moving downwards and away from the old high end ($8k!) range, and with the capabilities of the 5-series bodies increasing, this seems like the likely outcome.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

I hope the product cycle of the 5DS is lengthy like say... 5 years? Like the original 7D and 1DS3. ;D

I do have mixed feelings about CFast though. I will have to deal with a 3rd memory card type.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 13, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> leGreve said:
> 
> 
> > Canon F_____ up, and they will ****** up even more if they make it a split path camera.
> ...



I'd say photographers aren't making that mistake, they're buying gear that meets their needs...and the majority are buying Canon. Canon is designing cameras that people choose to buy. 

It's the 'internet experts' who can't seem grasp the basic fact that Canon's goal is to sell cameras and generate profit, and thus their design decisions are aimed at appealing to their target markets, and not a vocal minority of Internet forum posters. 

As I've said, YAPODFC. :


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## pedro (Jun 13, 2015)

I will use my 5DIII (purchased August 2012) as long as it's "clicking". Within the next years I will stay tuned to what either Canon comes out with or...I'll go for an A7sII and a Rokinon 14 F/2.8 for my astrostuff. I was quite happy about the recent Sony announcement. An updated mirrorless high ISO beast like the A7 R II which allows 500 K exposures might easily outlive my life expectation  I am 51 now. As my 5DIII is at about 31K shutter actuations by the moment after 2 years and 10 months...

And yes, as stated by others in this thread: ISO will be the thing of the year, in upcoming FF DSLR or mirrorless announcements. Sony set the mark as far as we could see. We surely have to wait for the RAWs. But if so, this is Canon's challenge at the medium price level for FF bodies. Or will they leave increased ISO range and IQ to the 1DX bodies only?


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## pvalpha (Jun 13, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > I hope all future EOS bodies will omit the optical low pass filter like the 36.3MP D810, 24.2MP D7200, 24.2MP D5500 and 24.2MP D3300.
> ...


I personally would like the low pass delete as an option as an amateur. 4K is less important because somehow I think the one thing that won't go away is rolling shutter in the DSLR bodies. I'd rather have a 1080p without rolling shutter than 4k with it - as an amateur, of course. I have Photoshop (and several other applications) and I know how to use them. Moire can be corrected... rolling shutter... not so much and not so easily. The one shot out of a thousand that has moire would not be too onerous. 

Considering that with the high resolution sensors in the pike moire shouldn't be a major problem anyway. Its line-resolution interference that causes it. And the sensors are approaching the resolving power of the glass. They switch to BSI, and they can push it past the resolving power of most consumer grade glass (even higher end stuff) anyway without significantly reducing photoreceptor sites and there's your low pass simply because the glass will low-pass for you. Of course, some things will always moire - even to the human eye. 

What would be interesting is cameras based on CFast and UHS-II. With higher MP counts, you need the transfer rates, otherwise you'll have to cap ISO and FPS. Lets not even begin harping on 4k video... like I said above, rolling shutter isn't going to go away, but to even hope to capture good video without significant compression you need faster cards. CFast is SATA - where as CF is IDE. I think its time for an update there and it will help reduce the cost of CFast by bringing it into the pro-sumer realm. UHS-II should be easy as punch anyway because that's going to be the next thing to hit the standards for laptop slots with USB 3.1. 2016 laptops are likely to all be UHS-II based if they have a media slot, simply because m.2 is there for ssds, transfer is done with USB 3/3.1, and the cards are starting to hit the market. In the camera it makes absolute sense because you won't need to pump up the buffer if your card is fast enough. Buffer is the key here. If I get a full-frame its going to be 4K, CFast/UHS-II, and likely have the Low-pass delete. But I'm very happy with my 7DmII as it is, so that's a sort of "if I get disposable income and get all the other goodies I want... maybe."


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## AlexB (Jun 13, 2015)

dolina said:


> Dude, it's CFast not C-fast. :



Hey, it happens  But I fixed it... CFast, CFast, CFast 

What I mean though is that if they implement it in the 5D Mark IV, it may end up like the 5D Mark III. While its there and it's nice, it is still a stills oriented camera with an ok video function. The 5D Mark III is only so good at video because of Magic Lantern. I wouldn't rave about 8 bit 4.2.0 internal 4K recording. it would be nice, but not great.

I would LOVE if they did a proper 4K implementation in the next 5D, of course! But I just don't see it as very likely. Especially if you believe what was posted around the time the 5Ds and 5Dsr was announced. It said that Canon will make more "market specific" (or whatever it's called, sorry I cannot find the words) cameras, and not "one camera fits all" type cameras.

They did do good with the C300 mark IIi thought. Lets hope that carries over to the next video oriented DSLR. 

Like always, this just my personal thoughts and opinion.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

I would not at all mind if Canon uses the a7R II's image sensor.

Having said that here are way cheaper full frame SLRs with higher MP and video than the *$2,747* stills-only 16.2MP Nikon Df.

20.2MP Canon 6D $1,399
24.3MP Nikon D610 $1,497
24.3MP Nikon D750 $1,997
22.3MP Canon 5D3 $2,499

Here are the more expensive full frame SLRs with higher MP and video

36.3MP Nikon D810 $2,997
50.6MP Canon 5DS $3,699
50.6MP Canon 5DS R $3,899
18.1MP Canon 1D X $5,299
16.2MP Nikon D4S $5,997*
18.1MP Canon 1D C $7,999

Source: http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Even a half done implementation of 4K resolution video is better than just 1080p.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 13, 2015)

Can't wait to see 1DX II specs. Hope Canon doesn't go too crazzzy in pricing.


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## dolina (Jun 13, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Can't wait to see 1DX II specs. Hope Canon doesn't go too crazzzy in pricing.



The MSRP of the original 1D X was $6,800 last October 18, 2011.


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## gregory4000 (Jun 13, 2015)

Todd, A close friend I've know since he was twelve, works in R&D for Zeiss. Zeiss has collaborated closely with Sony as you know for lens compatibility. He stated that the new Sony A7R ll will come close to an unbelievable 19 stops of dynamic range.


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## pedro (Jun 13, 2015)

gregory4000 said:


> Todd, A close friend I've know since he was twelve, works in R&D for Zeiss. Zeiss has collaborated closely with Sony as you know for lens compatibility. He stated that the new Sony A7R ll will come close to an unbelievable 19 stops of dynamic range.



that is quite something...


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## privatebydesign (Jun 13, 2015)

pedro said:


> gregory4000 said:
> 
> 
> > Todd, A close friend I've know since he was twelve, works in R&D for Zeiss. Zeiss has collaborated closely with Sony as you know for lens compatibility. He stated that the new Sony A7R ll will come close to an unbelievable 19 stops of dynamic range.
> ...



And impossible in even a full 16bit RAW file. And we all now Sony cook their RAW files (as do Nikon) and they are not 'RAW' files.


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## davidcl0nel (Jun 13, 2015)

And my neighbour told me, they decrease the file size to a 8 bit file per color and also get 33 stops of dynamic range! No, 42 stops!

Math my friends, math....


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 13, 2015)

gregory4000 said:


> Todd, A close friend I've know since he was twelve, works in R&D for Zeiss. Zeiss has collaborated closely with Sony as you know for lens compatibility. He stated that the new Sony A7R ll will come close to an unbelievable 19 stops of dynamic range.



If Todd mentions that he's got a bridge he'd like to sell, or some swampland in Kansas, you should absolutely jump on the deal!!!


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## Maiaibing (Jun 13, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.
> 
> Photographers continue to make this mistake: Canon is a business, their interest is money. They are not camera design aficionados trying to win an engineering award.



Where did you get this nonsense from??

Canon's camera division is suffering very badly.

Check out Canon's latest share holders conference in which they admitted having missed the DSLR market. Also you want to check out their warnings that both DSLR sales and compact camera sales will be down (a lot, a lot) again this year (after already having suffered several years consecutive double digit DSLR sales drops). Finally, they have already this year issued yet another earnings warning after significantly missing Q1 earnings specifically pointing to the disappointing performance of their camera division highlighting falling compact camera sales. 

Talk about denial...


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## meywd (Jun 13, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > So long as their sales numbers are strong relative to other brands they will continue on the (financially) successful path they're on.
> ...


compact cameras sales are down for everyone..., so nothing new there, and DSLRs sales are also down for everyone, another old news, if you really want to show how canon is suffering, show that Sony sales increase while canons are down for new models, how many DSLRs did canon sell in 2014 in comparison to Sony's total (DSLR + Mirrorless)


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## toodlebug (Jun 13, 2015)

There is no resolution at which an AA filter is unnecessary. If you take photo of an HDTV with an iPhone (8 megapixels, no AA filter), you will see huge moire patterns. If you quadruple that you get in the ballpark of the high-resolution DSLRs, and you would still get moire on a 4K TV or an HDTV from twice as far away. The same thing on clothing or fencing etc. of a suitable distance - if you increase the resolution it just means that the same clothing etc. further away (which previously was blurred due to lack of resolution) would induce moire.

Now some uses of a camera (perhaps natural landscapes, or astral photography) may not suffer from moire so it's nice to have a choice, but for general purpose use, taking photos of man-made objects, you need an AA filter.


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## Diko (Jun 13, 2015)

Why again "talk" about something which stays in the realm of uncertainty? Aside from the fact that there WILL be a 5D m4 everything else is useless.


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## Dylan777 (Jun 13, 2015)

dolina said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Can't wait to see 1DX II specs. Hope Canon doesn't go too crazzzy in pricing.
> ...



My guess on 1Dx II will be $7500 at phase one.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 13, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> there is nothing significant coming in the near future



So true. Time to move on. Rumors like this will not cut it for me anymore - Canon has to show they can catch up.

Will check out the 5DIV specs once its officially launched. Meanwhile I wish the remaining hopeful good luck with having Canon surprise us all.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 13, 2015)

Diko said:


> Aside from the fact that there WILL be a 5D m4 everything else is useless.



Are you sure? Canon might not last that long. I hear the a7RII is the final nail in the coffin. dSLRs in general, and Canon in particular, are *******. Everyone's saying it!


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## Maiaibing (Jun 13, 2015)

meywd said:


> compact cameras sales are down for everyone..., so nothing new there, and DSLRs sales are also down for everyone, another old news, if you really want to show how canon is suffering, show that Sony sales increase while canons are down for new models, how many DSLRs did canon sell in 2014 in comparison to Sony's total (DSLR + Mirrorless)



What a strange comment. I do not give a iota who is doing financially well or bad. If you find this stimulating you can run all the numbers you like yourself.

I'm just pointing out the distorted facts regarding Canon's camera earnings posted by another forum member. A company I have worked with and who's finances I follow closely for the same reason.


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## meywd (Jun 13, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> meywd said:
> 
> 
> > compact cameras sales are down for everyone..., so nothing new there, and DSLRs sales are also down for everyone, another old news, if you really want to show how canon is suffering, show that Sony sales increase while canons are down for new models, how many DSLRs did canon sell in 2014 in comparison to Sony's total (DSLR + Mirrorless)
> ...



You are saying that it's distorted, and I am saying that's not true, because the down is not because canon is losing sales but because everyone is losing sales, so unless you have clear data to show that they are only the ones - at least relatively - losing sales you can't say that it's distorted.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 13, 2015)

If it gets Exmor DR, high quality 4k with video usability features and is 28MP and not 18MP then I'll go 5D4 all the way, big time since it would be a DSLR and surely have nicer stills usability and be top for action too. If not, it's A7R II for me for sure.

The 4k on the A7RII is no-skipped, no chip binned, oversampled and has all the zebras and so on so Canon really has to deliver and can't hold back. And it will probably have a lot more MP for stills too.

Not sure it will though otherwise it will hit their XC10, 5Dsr, etc. but IMO rather hit those than do nothing, Canon has thought that way for a long while now though.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 13, 2015)

dolina said:


> I hope all future EOS bodies will omit the optical low pass filter like the 36.3MP D810, 24.2MP D7200, 24.2MP D5500 and 24.2MP D3300.



I sure hope not! I hope they don't go all SOny and Nikon and go for cheap marketing blather about no-AA filter as if that is something good.
And my gosh, for sure as heck not on 24-28MP FF cameras!


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## gdanmitchell (Jun 13, 2015)

toodlebug said:


> There is no resolution at which an AA filter is unnecessary.



That would be true if lenses were infinitely sharp. They aren't. ;-)


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## privatebydesign (Jun 13, 2015)

gdanmitchell said:


> toodlebug said:
> 
> 
> > There is no resolution at which an AA filter is unnecessary.
> ...



Even then it wouldn't be true. You'd still need an infinitely stable platform and be shooting in a vacuum, not to mention the aperture and the wavelength of the illuminating source and diffraction.


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## CaptureWhatYouSee (Jun 13, 2015)

gregory4000 said:


> Todd, A close friend I've know since he was twelve, works in R&D for Zeiss. Zeiss has collaborated closely with Sony as you know for lens compatibility. He stated that the new Sony A7R ll will come close to an unbelievable 19 stops of dynamic range.



yeah, right. If the scale for DR is [0,infinity), then yes, 14 is close to 19.


----------



## l_d_allan (Jun 13, 2015)

HaroldC3 said:


> It doesn't matter what Canon announces, it's already lost to the A7rii.



I'm not happy to be in agreement. I had very little interest in the 5ds/r, and now none.

About the only thing that would be of interest (to me ... others?) would be if Canon swallows their pride and puts a Sony Exmor in the 5d4.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 13, 2015)

gdanmitchell said:


> toodlebug said:
> 
> 
> > There is no resolution at which an AA filter is unnecessary.
> ...



Huh?


----------



## emko (Jun 13, 2015)

l_d_allan said:


> HaroldC3 said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't matter what Canon announces, it's already lost to the A7rii.
> ...



i wonder at one point Sony will have a big enough market what would be the point of selling their top end sensor to Nikon anymore? when then Nikon will be competing with the Sony cameras?

i don't see this as a good idea for Canon even though i would love it, Canon can and should just release a sensor that's is as good if not better and also make a damn mirror less camera they can start by removing some of the camera lines and replacing them with a great mirror less system.


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## lloyd709 (Jun 14, 2015)

The killer feature would be a high fps video in my opinion - that would really make it stand out!


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## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

Native ISO without boost of 51,200, 102,400 and 204,800 would be nice.


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## pwp (Jun 14, 2015)

_*Per-leeze*_ Canon, bring joy to the world....just give me one new feature on the 5D IV:

Illuminated AF points, Illuminated AF points & Illuminated AF points. And Illuminated AF points.

The red illuminated AF points are one of the central reasons I keep my high-mileage 1D MkIV. I couldn't tell you how often I lose track of the active AF point on my 5D MkIII, and miss shots that would be useful to myself and clients.

And one more time:_ Illuminated AF points._

-pw


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## davidmurray (Jun 14, 2015)

dolina said:


> Native ISO without boost of 51,200, 102,400 and 204,800 would be nice.



I agree.

I really like my 5D3 and my Canon lenses, and would be buying a 5D4 if it would give me an all round camera with improvements in the important features of a DSLR stills camera.

To me that means improvements in the resulting quality of the captured photos.

Megapixels would be nice, but ultimately that's just about digital file size.

Improvements in light sensitivity would be a winning feature for me as that would increase the range of locations and circumstances that I could get excellent photo quality without recourse to using a flash.

With respect to dynamic range, there is only so much dynamic range possible when printing out photos after a while all the subtleties at the extreme ends all turn into white and black unless using a very fancy printer.

Auto focus for me is a winning feature. Improvements in slow aperture auto focus would be a compelling feature for me due to the possibilities it would open up.

So, I am hoping for improved low light / slow aperture auto focus, and improved light sensitivity / ISO.

Other features would be nice, but not necessarily compelling. I use a dedicated motion picture camera for capturing video.

Cheers
David


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## meywd (Jun 14, 2015)

Forget innovation, if the 5D IV get the AF + FPS + metering of the 7D II/1D X, shutter life of the 1D X, exceed the high ISO of the 1DX\6D, and improved noise like the 5Ds then that's all is needed.


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## kei00051 (Jun 14, 2015)

Like many people are saying...Canon is becoming more like a lens manufacturer...like Sigma or Tamron lol


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## gsealy (Jun 14, 2015)

The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2015)

gsealy said:


> The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.



Boston College just filled their whole baseball roster with left-handed hitters. That changes the game, and in this particular case the New York Yankees will have to capitulate and fill their bullpen with left-handed pitchers. 

(In case the sports analogy is lost on you, the point is a Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR.)


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## ritholtz (Jun 14, 2015)

pwp said:


> _*Per-leeze*_ Canon, bring joy to the world....just give me one new feature on the 5D IV:
> 
> Illuminated AF points, Illuminated AF points & Illuminated AF points. And Illuminated AF points.
> 
> ...


They added this to 70d view finder. I think, they call it intelligent view finder. It will be there in every new release.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2015)

ritholtz said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > _*Per-leeze*_ Canon, bring joy to the world....just give me one new feature on the 5D IV:
> ...



I don't think so, although looking at pw's post he doesn't actually state what I think he's asking for. He's referring to the AF points being illuminated _during subject tracking in AI Servo_. That was added via firmware update (based on user feedback) to the 1D X, but not the 5DIII. The 7DII has it. I strongly suspect that feature depends on the RGB metering sensor – in Servo tracking, metering and AF are continuous except when the mirror is up, and the red light shining inside the pentaprism mucks up metering (the illumination method for points on the transmissive LCD is different than that for focus screen etched points like on the 1DIV). The illumination on the 1D X and 7DII flickers, and I believe that in combination with the RGB metering system being able to selectively ignore red light allows the feature to work. The 5DIII doesn't have RGB metering, whereas the 1D X and 7DII do. I have no doubt the 5DIV will also get RGB metering, and will be able to illuminate AF points during Servo tracking (although the illumination isn't as effective as on the 1DIV).

OTOH, if pw is referring to constant AF point illumination in all modes, I don't think that's likely with any of the transmissive LCD bodies.


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## gsealy (Jun 14, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> gsealy said:
> 
> 
> > The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.
> ...



Hmmm. . . . been a sports guy probably more than you have been alive. So you shouldn't think too highly of yourself. The world has a way of changing and it is best to take note of such.


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## jarrodeu (Jun 14, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> (In case the sports analogy is lost on you, the point is a Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR.)


But if the buying public _thinks_ that it is, then it is.
Jarrod


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## Hjalmarg1 (Jun 14, 2015)

dolina said:


> Thank you Sony for getting 4K onto the 5D Mark IV!
> 
> Will the Mark IV use CFast (600MB/s max read/write) & SDXC UHS-II (312MB/s max read/write) memory cards?
> 
> ...


All of these features plus an increase in DR, IQ at low AND high ISO performance at the same time is always welcome.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 14, 2015)

pwp said:


> _*Per-leeze*_ Canon, bring joy to the world....just give me one new feature on the 5D IV:
> 
> Illuminated AF points, Illuminated AF points & Illuminated AF points. And Illuminated AF points.



You have my sympathy - one (of several) reasons I did not get the 5DIII. I think it was an attempt to reduce viewfinder clutter. It was just a very bad idea, while the rotating AF point was a very good one. Next time Canon will likely get it right.


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## emko (Jun 14, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> gsealy said:
> 
> 
> > The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.
> ...



" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII. 

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.


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## davidmurray (Jun 14, 2015)

emko said:


> " Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.
> 
> A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS
> 
> ...



Why all the negativity?

Surely if you're looking at this site you're interested in Canon cameras and interested in what Canon actually is doing.

I like what Canon has produced in the 5D3 and am really interested in hearing about the next incarnation of this excellent gadget.

I would prefer to read fair assessments of current Canon products (fair, not in Canon's pocket) than perpetual pro-Sony anti-Canon rants.

When it comes to future, as yet unreleased products I see little point in bitching about what Canon has not done, or what you think was done wrongly. I see plenty of point in expressions of optimism for this new hoped-for feature or that new hoped-for feature; but PLEASE let's keep posts to this forum polite, reasonable, diplomatic, and, above all, rational.

Yes I don't post very often. Yes I am interested in hearing what Canon is doing. No I don't want to read a tonne of bitch-fests just to find the few actual interesting posts.

I'm interested in what people do with their Canon cameras, lenses and accessories. I'm interested in reading about what Canon is doing vis a vis new products - that is why I visit this website.

Personally I would appreciate it if there would be fewer negative anti-Canon rants.

Let's increase the ISO quality (so to speak) in the conversation about Canon products.


----------



## leGreve (Jun 14, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > leGreve said:
> ...



I work at one of the best commercial photography studios in Denmark.... we range from high-end still life to food photography being able to charge over 1300 Euro for pr days work.
And honestly, we are not impressed anymore.

I totally get that a large crowd of non-trained or selftrained photographers will fall on their asses over these cameras, because Canon has managed to somehow give the impression of value for money.

We had a 5D2, then moved up to 5D3 because there wasn't other serious solutions around at the time, but time has run out on Canon.
But adapters are getting waaay better, so you can't use the argument that you own Canon lenses so you have to buy Canon. They have made so many terrible body decissions lately both on the still side and the video side... just look at the joke that is the XC10.

I also totally get that Canon is by no means an innovative company anymore, but I wish they were. I guess that boils down to having a aging board of directors that get more and more weak spined and money grubbing.
I sometimes wonder if the same if the case with the fanbase............. I mean aging and unadjustable.
The 69ers are still the largest population group, while those who dare and try out new innovative stuff come from the newer alas smaller demographic groups.

In the mean time... look at a company like Black Magic Design. Man I wish those guys would attack the still segment, they would steal large market shares in a couple of years with their business model; innovative and aggresively priced.


----------



## 100 (Jun 14, 2015)

emko said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > gsealy said:
> ...


2 camera’s you haven’t even touched yet and one camera (5DIV) that is nothing more than a rumor at the moment and you already know which one is best… Doesn’t exactly do wonders for one’s credibility, I think. 

The best payed professionals are in what I would call the top league or highest level. Look at the systems those people are using and tell me where Sony systems are the clear winners? The top in landscape and fashion are using medium format digital or large format film. The top in sports and nature are using DSLR’s made by Canon and Nikon. Journalism, wedding, event..? Please show me where Sony is regarded the best option by the top level pro’s.

This doesn’t make Sony camera’s bad camera’s. They outperform Canon on sensors, but that alone isn’t enough to win over a substantial amount of top level pro’s to really compete in the same league. 
Maybe the A7rII will make a change and MILC will rule the world but people said the same thing 5 years ago… 

Don’t get me wrong, I like what Sony is doing and I really want Canon to take bigger steps, but so far Sony hasn’t pushed hard enough to really hurt Canon/Nikon. I hope they will though, we (the consumer) will benefit from it.


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## gary samples (Jun 14, 2015)

davidmurray said:


> emko said:
> 
> 
> > " Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.
> ...


 +10


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2015)

gsealy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > gsealy said:
> ...



Hmmmm. . . . Well apologies for not knowing you're an elderly sports guy. It's the anonymous Internet, you could know as much about baseball as Vince Lombardi. Heck, you could _be_ Vince Lombardi. Wait, is that even the right sport? 

As for thinking highly of myself, I'm not the one telling Canon what they _have_ to do. That's you, bub. Lots of 'photo guys' here on CR said that Canon _had to_ deliver more low ISO DR in the 5DIII or it would be a flop – after all, Nikon APS-C bodies were already 'better' than the 5DII. But you've probably a photo guy longer than they've been alive, so you know better than them.


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## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.







Source: http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/canon-leads-the-way-in-world-press-photo-nominations/

These photogs go to warzones or disaster areas to get their perfect images.

So why is Canon inferior?


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## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

dilbert said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.
> ...


Both? There are freelance and non-freelance photojournalists.

From a commercial/business point of view Canon makes the most sense.

Sony has been heavily promoting the Alpha system at the last few WorldCups but the cameras used by the sports photogs were Canon followed by Nikon.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2015)

dilbert said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.
> ...



If you owned a construction business, would you buy you plastic hammers for your crew, or would you buy tools you knew they could use to do their jobs? 

Whoever is buying the cameras, they're not buying Sony...well, maybe they are but if so it would seem they're like toy plastic hammers...


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## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> If you owned a construction business, would you buy you plastic hammers for your crew, or would you buy tools you knew they could use to do their jobs?
> 
> Whoever is buying the cameras, they're not buying Sony...well, maybe they are but if so it would seem they're like toy plastic hammers...



2nd most popular system is Nikon and they are exclusive to NASA.






Again, I am happy Sony is stepping up where Nikon is not. Competition is needed in an industry that is shrinking 20% year after year.


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## arcanej (Jun 14, 2015)

Canon has the dominant share in cameras today and has the best repair services (at least in the U.S.). What should be most concerning to Canon - and Canon users - is change on the margin. 

On the margin, it appears that more consumers are buying Sony kit (1). The reason why is pretty obvious: Sony is now more innovative in sensor design than Canon/Nikon (and, perhaps, Samsung) and is packaging its sensors in smaller, less-intimidating-to-new-photographers bodies. Should this continue, Sony may very well gain the sales base to build out a repair network that can rival Canon (at least in the U.S.) and Canon may no longer be able to fund the class of the industry repair system.

Canon has a lot going for it: it's lenses are great and help keep a lot of users loyal in the midst of rising competition. However, if the key features that users make their buying decision is based on DR and high ISO performance and Canon continues to lag in those areas, Canon will lose. It will not matter that Canon's bodies offer better weather sealing, better battery life, better ergonomics, better software layout, higher frame rates, etc. 

Competing against Sony (and, for that matter Samsung) in essentially a semiconductor fabrication technology is hard. Sony and Samsung have a lot more invested in silicon chips and can leverage this to image sensors. In fact, it should be anything but surprising that they are leveraging this resource base and skill set into image sensors. 

It may well be cost prohibitive for Canon to keep up with changes in lithography tech. Nikon seems to have implicitly made this choice by adopting Sony sensors. Canon will have to make the decision to: a) build its own fabs to keep up with lithography shrinks, b) become a fabless sensor desiger, or c) follow down Nikon's path. For consumer choice, I certainly hope Canon doesn't opt for c). We are all better off with more companies competing on sensor design. However, it appears that Canon is hobbled in its current strategy because of the cost of fab upgrades / cost of a new fab.

This is not to say that Canon will necessarily disappear as a company. Leica is still around and you don't see that many rangefinders anymore. However, there is still a very well-satisfied minority who continue to buy rangefinders (myself included). 

(1) http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-says-their-premium-cameras-sales-are-raising/


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2015)

arcanej said:


> However, if the key features that users make their buying decision is based on DR and high ISO performance and Canon continues to lag in those areas, Canon will lose. It will not matter that Canon's bodies offer better weather sealing, better battery life, better ergonomics, better software layout, higher frame rates, etc.



OTOH, if the key features on which users make buying decisions are ergonomics, frame rates, UI, etc., and Sony continues to lag in those areas...

I think history has shown that so far, low ISO DR has not been a major factor in buying decisions, and if you're saying that Canon is lagging in high ISO performance based on one 12 MP Sony camera, that's a highly specious argument.


----------



## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

It's very simple. Just buy a Sony when it actually surpasses Canon.

All our CRT TVs at home were Sonys until one day we bought HDTVs that are Samsung.

All our PCs were IBMs but but since 2000 we stayed with Apple until now.

All our ACs are Carriers but we are transitioning to LG.

For a solid decade we drove Hondas then this decade it was Subarus.

If I was buying my first dedicated still camera I would buy a Sony assuming I have no interest in wildlife or sports photography.

ISO and DR are considerations you learn about by hanging out on forums.



arcanej said:


> Canon has the dominant share in cameras today and has the best repair services (at least in the U.S.). What should be most concerning to Canon - and Canon users - is change on the margin.
> 
> On the margin, it appears that more consumers are buying Sony kit (1). The reason why is pretty obvious: Sony is now more innovative in sensor design than Canon/Nikon (and, perhaps, Samsung) and is packaging its sensors in smaller, less-intimidating-to-new-photographers bodies. Should this continue, Sony may very well gain the sales base to build out a repair network that can rival Canon (at least in the U.S.) and Canon may no longer be able to fund the class of the industry repair system.
> 
> ...


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 14, 2015)

dolina said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > If you owned a construction business, would you buy you plastic hammers for your crew, or would you buy tools you knew they could use to do their jobs?
> ...



Not true. The ISS has Canon C500's and 1DC's and a good selection of EF lenses. Oh, and most of the iconic moon landing images were shot with Hasselblads.


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## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Not true. The ISS has Canon C500's and 1DC's and a good selection of EF lenses. Oh, and most of the iconic moon landing images were shot with Hasselblads.


Wow! Not a Sony in sight. ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2015)

dolina said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Not true. The ISS has Canon C500's and 1DC's and a good selection of EF lenses. Oh, and most of the iconic moon landing images were shot with Hasselblads.
> ...



Well then, Canon simply _must_ respond to that.


----------



## pedro (Jun 14, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> arcanej said:
> 
> 
> > However, if the key features that users make their buying decision is based on DR and high ISO performance and Canon continues to lag in those areas, Canon will lose. It will not matter that Canon's bodies offer better weather sealing, better battery life, better ergonomics, better software layout, higher frame rates, etc.
> ...



I am really looking forward to what the ISO 25.6 amd 51.2k RAWs of the A7RII will look like...based on this new sensor...! 12.8 kish 51k would be "the sweet spot" for my type of photography...


----------



## SwnSng (Jun 14, 2015)

davidmurray said:


> emko said:
> 
> 
> > " Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.
> ...



Forums need a Karma rating...i'm so sick of the fanboys on either side but much more annoyed when it's a Nikon, Sony or whomever troll that keeps on spouting off myopic shallow comments of what PEOPLE should be using...etc etc.

The a7rii looks interesting and sounds like it would be a great Landscape body for those with Canon lenses

But the biggest thing i'm waiting for the 5dmkiv:

8+ FPS, latest AF tech and better noise characteristics when lifting shadows. 

2nd tier: 24+ MP, improved ISO performance, controlling speedlites.

3rd tier: Intervalometer

I shoot everything and lots of Sports so the A7RII does not interest me, it would be an awesome landscape camera but I don't want to have two systems to fuss over.

If Canon hits on those things above which all the rumors have suggested I will be one happy customer. If they don't then I will most likely stick with my 5d3 for general use and perhaps pick up a 7dmkii for Sports, Macro and Wildlife.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 14, 2015)

SwnSng said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > emko said:
> ...



CR used to have a karma rating system, it didn't work and was voted out.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 14, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> CR used to have a karma rating system, it didn't work and was voted out.



I thought it worked fine. It had a moderating effect on comments and you could look at people's Karma rating and get a good idea if they were full of crap or not. Yeah, there were a handful of people who abused it, but I think it generally worked very well.


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## Busted Knuckles (Jun 14, 2015)

I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.

5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators? 

Or at least do away with AFMA? Dot Tune is a simple algorithm, perhaps something really sophisticated?

So the 5D has 22, 50, and w/ the IV what resolutions? Uber low light, generalist, and then uber high resolution.

Hmmm

I like the idea of the in body stabilization/instant AFMA idea


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## gregory4000 (Jun 14, 2015)

Sony A7r ll 24 mp NICE.
5 axis IS in camera 4.5 stop ( any lens you mount has IS including all your favorite canons..etc) WOW!!
Great Dynamic Range, Great!
4K full frame and super 35mm with internal recording, panning and s log "HOLY SH*T"!!
Great ISO WOW!!!
A true silent shutter and 500,000 actuations.
lighter weight, tilting screen ( BIG WOW for me)
A view finder that can zoom and see better in low light.
better focus.. ( If it's even close to Samsung Nx which by the way is next and neck with Nikon 4DS) WOW
Oh, almost forgot...cost less. $3200
Listen, Canon Rumors brought to our attention the specs of the upcoming Sony A7R ll. Why, to upset us? Or course not. It's to be fare and unbiased in the camera arena. Canon and Nikon have a very proud history and do make great cameras. But, not to be impressed with Sony is similar to mocking Lexus because it wasn't as fast as a Mustang back in 1990. Lexus didn't put Ford or GM out of the market, But it did encourage them to step up their game.
Thank you lexus, Infinity and the others.
Hopefully, these mirrorless cameras will lead Canon to offer some of these nice features on their upcoming cameras like the way they improved their c300 ll. Otherwise, like in the racing world. Watch out Canon, Niki Lauda is in your rear view mirror.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 14, 2015)

unfocused said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > CR used to have a karma rating system, it didn't work and was voted out.
> ...



I didn't have an issue with it either, I voted to keep it. I also had one of the highest negative values of regular posters, but that was with a previous username.


----------



## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

So much talk on Sony here and I am starting to wonder if this was Sony Alpha Rumors. ;D


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 14, 2015)

Busted Knuckles said:


> I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.
> 
> 5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?
> 
> ...


I doubt if 5 axis includes front to back. It is probably roll, pitch, yaw, vertical lateral, horizontal lateral.

See? I didn't ignore you


----------



## cmh716 (Jun 14, 2015)

It's not an easy jump to switch to Sony for most of us. I've got a lot invested in Canon glass to switch to all Sony glass. All I hear is negative about the meatabones adapters. Terrible autofocus, camera lockups, etc. I just hope the 5DM4 has better DR, GPS and good FPS. Even the a7rii doesn't have GPS. Seems insane to have to manually geotag my photos with these $3-4k cameras (a7rii & 5ds, etc).


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 14, 2015)

100 said:


> emko said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



The A7R II could well take over the stills camera video market (beyond the low end) and I"d imagine it might do quite well for the serious landscape market. I could see many Canon users maybe hanging onto a 5D3/7D2 for sports/action/macros/stuff in general when the quick UI and AF are key and then add the A7R II to get the landscape sensor they've been crying for and the seemingly excellent 4k video (the only possible niggle for the video is whether the apparent 8bit and some other processing are going to hurt the video DR on it, otherwise it's already proven to have super detail with a reasonable natural look which is pretty impressive).

Of course if Canon had just made the 5Ds with a sensor and video and video usability features like the A7R II and 6fps FF and a RAW crop mode, I don't think a single Canon user would even look at the A7R II or remotely think of switching to Nikon. I am getting a little worried that they may have fallen hopelessly behind the ability to produce modern sensors. All the stacked fast read out, on chip ADC, etc. etc. can't really be done on their equipment AFAIK. If they want high DR, ultra fast readout without overheating and getting around rolling shutter/jello and so on I wonder if they might not be stuck. Maybe they can still manage the dual ISO read out at moderate MP counts, but can they pull that off at very high MP counts and can do they do all that stuff and get ultra fast read out to get around for the next next round? Hopefully, but I don't know. They haven't even done it yet at any level (beyond the C300 II to some extent).

But, on the plus side, ideal as it is not, at least there are Sony mirrorless now to hook your EF lenses into so you always have a way to get video and landscape stills with the new tech out of your Canon lenses even the Sony bodies are as yet still too compromised to be the one and only all-around body for those who also do serious action and stuff where you just need the weather sealing and AF and so on to work and you can't mess around, etc.

I think the problem with the 5Ds is that while in some ways it is much better in that it is a DSLR, great UI, I'd imagine great AF, without a fast RAW crop mode it's too slow to quite get away with doubling as any sort of an action camera on the side (sports of wildlife) and the RAW buffer is supposedly very poor, which if true, makes it even yet worse for all that sports and wildlife action stuff. And the lack of a crop mode sure means a lot of wasted space when using it as a reach camera to shoot say distant birds (granted the Sony has some issues with this too, AFAIK no crop modes, although it's files are a little smaller) And it doesn't bring anything new to video, in fact I'd dare say it's a lot worse than the current 5D3 since the 5Ds doesn't take ML yet and there is no guarantee it ever will, much less expand video in new ways. 

So for those who do some action it will have to be an added not a replacement camera and then for those who do video too they might need to make an additional purchase of either some BM Ursa or maybe an A7R II, but at the point they need ot get the A7RII perhaps anyway....

And then for landscapes, it brings the MP and probably top color fidelity and non-compressed RAWs which are all awesome, but then the low ISO DR is rather out of date for this day and age so it's not like it really quite hits it as a specialist high MP uber landscape camera either.

If you care not a whit about video and don't shoot any DR limited situations much then it's certain pretty fine, and despite being what I'd have to say is overpriced, still reasonably cost effective (especially if you don't do any action either and can sell your old bodies to help fund this one) and surely a nicer experience than a Sony mirrorless and more all-around. If you care about video and action then it's expensive since you need your current body plus the 5Ds plus another thing for video (and if you care about DR at low ISO for stills, you still don't have that).

But I could really see adding (or even replacing their current Canon body, for those who simply don't do action/sports/must rely on it type shooting/willing to live with UI compromises at all times) an A7R II exciting a lot more people since you get the high MP PLUS the high DR and you also get your aliasing/moire-free with very crisp detail (not waxy or mushy) 4k video with basic video usability features too.

It would help a bit if Sony was able to get out a firmware to give it a non-lossy, true RAW option though.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 14, 2015)

dolina said:


> The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



PJ are only the most demanding in certain ways. Ultimate image quality isn't often that key to them and if they are shooting for newspapers, not so hot shots often print nearly as well as superb ones (talking noise/color/detail/etc.) so the differences between whatever is out there at this point don't really matter much if they newsprint shooters at this point. And not many of them are putting up top quality 4k video or anything either.

In terms of a solid body that just works and is easy and natural to use, AF is decent, has some buffer and speed when needed, good service, nice sealing, etc. then they can be pretty demanding, very much if also shooting sports.

And sure I'm not sure the A7R II stacks up for that so well. (and for those who are super literal and who don't read into things especially not NY area ways of stating things, by "not sure" and I mean "very clearly sure that it doesn't")

The Nikons do just fine for that though (maybe a bit worse for the service though).

OTOH those going for the bodies that could get a high quality shot out of the most diverse array or low to mid ISO conditions and who are demanding in that way would certainly find their demands met better with non-Canon sensors. And for those demanding cameras with decent video usability features built in pretty much anything other than Canon hits those demands better (ML does rescue some models to some extent though) and for those demanding top quality video that is either not as space crazy as ML RAW or 4k Canon doesn't deliver to their top demands these days either as well as others.

So it all depends upon what the demands are as to who is the most demanding.

Also a lot of PJs are struggling these days as are most outlets and neither is necessarily itching to spend money to swap around systems.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 14, 2015)

Busted Knuckles said:


> I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.
> 
> 5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?
> 
> ...



IS doesn't have anything to do with AFMA


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## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

PJ also work with magazines that would probably have a higher standard in IQ than newsprint.

But remember, most people are already happy with smartphone photos and anything exceeding that is a mega bonus for them.

I guess you could become critical with IQ when you are after the last 1% of performance but the cost/hassle sharply shoots up to the point that it is way way too inconvenient.

Rational people shooting whatever system will switch to a different system so long as it makes sense to them.

I'm ready to jump ship if Canon screws up that badly.


LetTheRightLensIn said:


> PJ are only the most demanding in certain ways. Ultimate image quality isn't often that key to them and if they are shooting for newspapers, not so hot shots often print nearly as well as superb ones (talking noise/color/detail/etc.) so the differences between whatever is out there at this point don't really matter much if they newsprint shooters at this point. And not many of them are putting up top quality 4k video or anything either.
> 
> In terms of a solid body that just works and is easy and natural to use, AF is decent, has some buffer and speed when needed, good service, nice sealing, etc. then they can be pretty demanding, very much if also shooting sports.
> 
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Busted Knuckles said:
> 
> 
> > I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.
> ...



Since an "axis" is a line about which something _rotates_, and the vertical and horizontal movements are translations not rotations, "5 axis IBIS" is a lie. But I guess Canon had already trademarked Hybrid IS.


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## Busted Knuckles (Jun 14, 2015)

WOW 2 comments 

The point on hybrid is an extra point that points to the idea that the lens can handle the jiggle, the sensor can handle the focus in/out.

Instead of the lens fiddling w/ the adjusted focal distance, for the AFMA, the sensor can do this as the lens reports gross distance to the subject, the sensor makes the fine focal adj? Might throw off the optical?

With all the ability to fine tune the positioning of the sensor, there may someday be interchangeable sensors - vs. having to buy several bodies. Imagine if the 5dIV comes out as a 16 mp uber low light monster, that would give the 5dIII as the general purpose, and the 5DS(r) as the uber high resolution.


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## dolina (Jun 14, 2015)

Going back to the 5D Mark IV.

Here is the price history of the various 5D bodies over the decade.

Mark I
October 2005 priced at $3,299 (US) / €3,459 (EU).

Mark II
December 2008 priced at $2,699 (US), € 2,499 (EU), £ 2,299 (UK)

Mark III
March 2012 priced at $3,499 / €3,299 / £2,999.99.

5DS & 5DS R
June 2015 priced at $3,699.00 respectively $3,899.00

Mark IV?

Won't exceed $4,000.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 15, 2015)

dilbert said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I can tell you first hand Getty is not changing to Nikon, considering most of the photographers I know just got 1Dx's.


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## dolina (Jun 15, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Canon has a pretty good stranglehold on the commercial sector, although there were reports of Getty changing over from Canon to Nikon a year or two ago...
> 
> This history likely goes back to the film era and with the cost of changing over being too high, status quo remains...


When the 1D3 had a malfunctioning AF the photonews agencies switched over to Nikon. This was clearly seen during the the World Cup and Olympics of that time.

When the 1D4 came out they slowly went back to Canon.

Personal users like business users must look at the cost aspects of each system and it is mighty difficult to switch.


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## NancyP (Jun 15, 2015)

Thread summation: 
1. A 5D4 is in the works
2. We don't know much about it
3. speculation about DR and other sensor factors, comparing a not-yet-available Canon camera with a not-yet-tested new Sony sensor in a MILC format


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 16, 2015)

Busted Knuckles said:


> I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.
> 
> 5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?
> 
> ...



But I should add, that while IS has nothing to do with needing AFMA or not the way this camera does AF, finishing it off with contrast sensor detect means that you don't need any AFMA (although if the value is way off I imagine it might have the phase initial stage perhaps not work ideally, although you'd think it would probably not likely be so far off that it would mstter though.

So you probably will get both your in body IS (you will) and auto-AMFA (because it's not even needed at all).


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## ebphoto (Jun 18, 2015)

Is the 5D Mark IV to be "superior" to the new 5ds (both) cannot tell. both are priced 1K+ over the mark II & III. any idea or rumor of price? i still have my trusty mark II and love it, it's a workhorse. not clear (and I have been reading all i can find on both models) not sure which is more sensible to upgrade to. i can easily wait till '16. sentimentally i'd like to stick with the mark series. thoughts??


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## knoxtown (Jun 18, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...



Ditto with AP and AFP.


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## Txema (Jun 19, 2015)

NancyP said:


> Thread summation:
> 1. A 5D4 is in the works
> 2. We don't know much about it
> 3. speculation about DR and other sensor factors, comparing a not-yet-available Canon camera with a not-yet-tested new Sony sensor in a MILC format



I think we all know, pretty much, what is going to happen. Canon has the high mp area covered with the 5DS/DSr.
The 5D4 will have a small increase in mp and a tiny bit more DR at base and high iso. In both areas it will be well below the sony 7rII. On the other hand, in y my opinion, Canon's 5 user interface, battery life, build and reliability are better than sony's. 
I have been a Canon user since 1990 and I'm considering the change. I've been thinking about moving to Nikon but I don't see something similar to the 16-35 f4, 24-70 f2.8 and 100-400L is II or 70-300L is. If it did, I'll buy a 810 and a 750 as backup. Apparently, Sony does not have either lenses with the similar quality on that range. So i'll probably buy the new sony to be used with canon lenses and the 5D III as backup.
I work as an real state/interior photographer with 2 ts lenses, but my personal photography is travel (lifestyle, food, landscape, portraiture...) 
Any one knows Nikon or Sony lenses for travel that can compete in IQ with the canon ones I mentioned above?
I respect other opinions since what we all look for is the equipment that better suits our needs and those are very personal opinions.


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## dolina (Jun 19, 2015)

My speculation on the 5D Mark IV specification

More than 24MP but less than 43MP
DIGIC 7
ISO 51,200, 102,400 or 204,800
Crop Function 1.3x 1.6x, 1:1, etc
More than 6fps but less than 10fps
CF+SD UHS-I card slot if 1080p resolution video stays *or* CFast/SD UHS-II card slot if 4K resolution video happens
GPS
WiFi with NFC (maybe)
No optical low-pass filter if MP is around 36MP
Same or upgrade AF system of the 7D Mark II
Ships by December 2015 or before August 2016.

It would be nice if Canon were to reuse the body of the 5D Mark III. Would save on reaccessorising

On a side note, don’t you wish that Canon did the R and non-R bodies with say the 70D? The cost of test marketing OLPF-free body would have been spread out to more users and a single OLPF-free 5DS body would have happened.

Anyone here wish Canon would use the a7R II’s image sensor on the 5D Mark IV? It would be nice.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 19, 2015)

dolina said:


> My speculation on the 5D Mark IV specification
> 
> More than 24MP but less than 43MP
> ISO 51,200, 102,400 or 204,800
> ...



36 MPIX, excellent 12800 iso or better, 6 fps+. I'd buy this Canon camera in a heart beat and forget everything about going dual system. 

After the new SONY was announced - with its +++ list of options - you have to wonder how difficult this can be for Canon to deliver? By today's standard the 3 points above do not even look like a wish list but like the "bare necessities" unless Canon wants to fall flat on their faces as they did with the 5DIII. 

However, with Canon it still seems a distant and elusive dream so realistically I have my preorder pending for the new SONY as my next "DSLR".


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## dolina (Jun 19, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > My speculation on the 5D Mark IV specification
> ...


Canon could always outsource to Sony. They have done it before and most recently with two of their premium PowerShot point and shots.

I would not mind shooting with a Sony image sensor. 60% of all smartphones uses a Sony-source camera part. iPhones uses em.

The current generation of medium format cameras uses CMOS image sensor from Sony and have native ISO of 204,800.

If Canon replicates a D810 then I think it'll need cost at par or less. They'll need to up the spec a bit to ask for $3,500


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## meywd (Jun 19, 2015)

dolina said:


> My speculation on the 5D Mark IV specification
> 
> More than 24MP but less than 43MP
> DIGIC 7
> ...



I don't think they will remove the OLPF since after all its a DSLR with video ambitions.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 19, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> By today's standard the 3 points above do not even look like a wish list but like the "bare necessities" unless Canon wants to *fall flat on their faces as they did with the 5DIII.*



LOL!! Yeah, that happened. : If Canon falls just as flat with the 5DIV, they'll be LOLing all the way to the bank.


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## FEBS (Jun 19, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> unless Canon wants to fall flat on their faces as they did with the 5DIII.
> 
> However, with Canon it still seems a distant and elusive dream so realistically I have my preorder pending for the new SONY as my next "DSLR".



So, you were not able to get excellent photos with your 5DIII ? 

General: There are for sure a lot of new developments in the Nikon/Sony area. And the last I want is telling something bad there about, but it seems like grass is always greener at the other side. Once you are on the other side, you will find out their problems and their shortcomings. But hey, that's live. Nobody is perfect !!!


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## pedro (Jun 19, 2015)

Txema said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > Thread summation:
> ...


Well, shooting the 5DIII at the moment, maybe the overnext body would be just right...


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## Maiaibing (Jun 20, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > By today's standard the 3 points above do not even look like a wish list but like the "bare necessities" unless Canon wants to *fall flat on their faces as they did with the 5DIII.*
> ...



No. Canon is - as you well know - unhappy with their DSLR sales, have acknowledged that they missed the market with not having a high pixel offer that their customer's wanted and Canon's CEO has therefore recently laid out his plan for a turnaround. In addition Canon's camera division is loosing money - as just announced - after again missing their camera sales target Q1 this year.

Nobody in the Canon board are smiling when the camera division is discussed.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 20, 2015)

FEBS said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > unless Canon wants to fall flat on their faces as they did with the 5DIII.
> ...



I am not the type to get every new gadget - unless its a real upgrade. So the comment was not to say the 5DIII does not take good pictures, it was about the failure to follow the inspiring 5DII with a worthy upgrade.

Even today my 5DII's deliverer wonderful shots. But they are aging and not up to today's standards. 7 years down the road now - and Canon still has not provided a worthy successor. That's my perspective. I actually just bought an el cheapo 6D because its IQ is slightly better than the 5DIII and the pixel difference insignificant.

Sure, 5DIII shooters are less likely to need an upgrade. But that does not cover the situation for all of us. And surprisingly many of us still shoot 5DII's.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 20, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



The 5DIII sold quite well in its market segment, as Canon previously indicated. It did not 'fall flat'.


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## FEBS (Jun 20, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> FEBS said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



But that's your idea there about. Don't tell me that the AF upgrade from 5d2 to 5d3 is a small upgrade. No it is a big difference. For that reason the 5d3 is a worthy successor of the 5d2, but hey if you don't use that AF ok, I can see your point. All these models are evolving in iq, i don't see any revolution on the market.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 20, 2015)

FEBS said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > I am not the type to get every new gadget - unless its a real upgrade. So the comment was not to say the 5DIII does not take good pictures, it was about the failure to follow the inspiring 5DII with a worthy upgrade.
> ...



+1

The 5DIII was a minor IQ upgrade from the 5DII, and a *major* upgrade in nearly every other way. To call it an unworthy upgrade is disingenuous to the point of absurdity.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 20, 2015)

FEBS said:


> Don't tell me that the AF upgrade from 5d2 to 5d3 is a small upgrade.



Maybe, for you. But for me it made very little difference in real world shooting.

I take a lot of action shots and took several thousands of shots with the 5DIII to test it. Before testing I was 100% sure I would buy the 5DIII for this reason alone. But no. I still had to take three frames with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS L II and 300mm f/2.8 IS L to be sure of one in focus - exactly as with the 5DII.

Sure, there where _more _5DIII shots in focus, but I could not have changed my shooting style because of that.

I like to spend my money better. So I "upgraded" to the new 300mm f/2.8 L IS II instead. Frankly, also not worth the upgrade price from the previous version. Still, I feel much better about holding the 300mm f/2.8 L IS II in my hands today than I would looking at two heavily discounted 5DIII's and the old supertele.

YMMV.

_(Apart from this Canon's current AF implementation is far behind Nikon's and needs a serious upgrade on both the hardware and software side)
_


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 20, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> _(Apart from this Canon's current AF implementation is far behind Nikon's and needs a serious upgrade on both the hardware and software side)
> _



LOLZ. :

You found a new hat, I see.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 20, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > _(Apart from this Canon's current AF implementation is far behind Nikon's and needs a serious upgrade on both the hardware and software side)
> ...



Oh come on! All those dual cross type sensors of Nikon's...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 20, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



Don't forget that Nikon has all those cross-type points away from the center of the frame.


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## Maiaibing (Jun 21, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > _(Apart from this Canon's current AF implementation is far behind Nikon's and needs a serious upgrade on both the hardware and software side)
> ...



Your level of non-argument never stops to amaze me. But it does not alter reality:

"Apart for the glaring differences in software AF options, lets see what dpreview says about this:
...the D7200's new autofocus system is a big deal. (...) What this means is that the camera will focus a whole lot better in low light conditions, across the entire frame. In other words, its non-central AF points will likely focus in dimmer conditions than any other DSLR out there, save for Nikon's own D750.

(...) It's a shame that this number isn't higher. The recently released Canon 7D Mark II itself offers a 150,000-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor which, like Nikon's cameras with 91k-pixel sensors, has enough resolution to even detect faces and focus on them during OVF shooting. But Nikon's algorithms for 3D tracking just seem to be better (Canon's iTR in the 7D Mark II is imprecise and laggy in comparison(...)"

This from dpreview which hardly can be accused for bashing Canon.

I'll be happy to provide more tests and reviews on the superiority of Nikon's current AF implementation compared to Canon's.

Why this is so aggrieving to you to face facts that you find need to try to ridicule and dodge any arguments I do not know. But I do know that you are a complete waste of time discussing anything with.

And so I'll stop henceforth.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 21, 2015)

Wonder why they didn't use the 1Dx as the representative for Canon's AF system.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 21, 2015)

<I'll be happy to provide more tests and reviews on the superiority of Nikon's current AF implementation compared to Canon's.>

General statements like this are really disappointing.

You could say I shoot a lot of sports at a lot of venues. It's the same ole thing every time. Sidelines lined with 1Dx's and superteles, a few Nikons, no mirrorless. There's a big reason for that.


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 21, 2015)

I like these two statements best and I'm highlighting in bold:

"its non-central AF points *will likely* focus in dimmer conditions than any other DSLR out there, save for Nikon's own D750."

"But Nikon's algorithms for 3D tracking just *seem to be better *(Canon's iTR in the 7D Mark II is imprecise and laggy in comparison(...)""

Love it!


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 21, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> <I'll be happy to provide more tests and reviews on the superiority of Nikon's current AF implementation compared to Canon's.>
> 
> General statements like this are really disappointing.



+1

His previous "evidence" was a link to the one and only Northrup infomercial I've ever watched, where he used inappropriate settings (i.e., settings the manual recommends against) for the 5DIII AF system, and then "demonstrated" the D810's better performance in a "sports test" consisting of a subject walking slowly toward him. 

Now his evidence is someone saying that, "Nikon's...algorithms just seem to be better." 

Oh, and someone saying the D7200's off-center points _will likeky_ focus better in really dim conditions. Let's just ignore the fact that we're talking about, for example, 1/15 s, f/2.8, ISO 12800 and higher, because those are great conditions to be using an APS-C sensor. But wait, it's Nikon so one can expose at 1/120 s, ISO 6400 to freeze subject motion then push the shot 4-stops in post Exmorify the shot. 

But at least he'll, "...stop henceforth." 

Edit: yes, I see you picked up on those definitive, empirically verifiable statements, too. :


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## FEBS (Jun 21, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> I take a lot of action shots and took several thousands of shots with the 5DIII to test it. Before testing I was 100% sure I would buy the 5DIII for this reason alone. But no. I still had to take three frames with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS L II and 300mm f/2.8 IS L to be sure of one in focus - exactly as with the 5DII.
> 
> Sure, there where _more _5DIII shots in focus, but I could not have changed my shooting style because of that.
> 
> ...



What do you want to say? If you can reach only 30% in focus with your 5DIII and the 70-200 2.8 II then or there is something wrong with your camera or lens, or your shooting style is not correct. Learn to use that combo. The 5D3 combined with lenses like 27-70 2.8 II, 70-200 2.8 II or 300 2.8 II are always in focus, and when it happens that you find a photo out of focus look what happened, it's men behind the camera that made an error. So, if you can only get 1/3 in focus on your 5D3 then you must look at yourself !!!


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 21, 2015)

FEBS said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > I take a lot of action shots and took several thousands of shots with the 5DIII to test it. Before testing I was 100% sure I would buy the 5DIII for this reason alone. But no. I still had to take three frames with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS L II and 300mm f/2.8 IS L to be sure of one in focus - exactly as with the 5DII.
> ...



I shot a tennis match with a 5D3/70-200 f/2.8L II IS combo once. I would be very close to the players on court and was using the silent shutter. I had about 640 keepers and missed critical focus maybe 10-15 times out of the session, at f/2.8. But hey what do I know? Tony Northup tested it and said otherwise.


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## TheJock (Jun 23, 2015)

I noticed that there was someone who made a request to be deleted from this forum, the point was that there was no option to delete your own account and you have to ask admin.
I think there are a few people on here deserving of _“ye olde hefty boot”_ from admin these days.
This is a Canon site where, if I’m not wrong; Canon owners come to discuss gear and seek knowledge from the fantastic and helpful people who frequent this site.
So why are there people who feel the need to come here and tell us how poor our preferred products are compared with the Sony’s and Nikons on the market?? I don’t feel the need to go anywhere near their specific pages because there’s nothing of interest for me, I choose Canon and I’m delighted with my choice.
…………..AND while I’m on my soapbox, there is still a noticeable and overwhelming percentage of Canon photographers at all major sporting events, suck it up Sony/Nikon fanboys!!!!


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