# The Canon EOS-7D Mark II AF Grid Void



## mackguyver (Jan 27, 2015)

I have my eye on getting a 7DII at some point, so I wanted to know if any of you have run into the issue that Arthur Morris is talking about:

The Canon EOS-7D Mark II AF Grid Void


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 27, 2015)

That does seem rather annoying!


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## Don Haines (Jan 27, 2015)

I noticed that too.

It is annoying.


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## Dylan777 (Jan 27, 2015)

My 6yrs will be joining golf team next month. There are two options come to mind

1. CPW-street price 600mm II
2. Cheaper way - 7d II + current 400mm f2.8 IS II

???


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## mackguyver (Jan 27, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> My 6yrs will be joining golf team next month. There are two options come to mind
> 
> 1. CPW-street price 600mm II
> 2. Cheaper way - 7d II + current 400mm f2.8 IS II
> ...


That's sort of my thought as well, and eventually the sun rises high enough in the sky to use lower ISOs than my 1D X 

This AF issue really seems to be annoying Art Morris, but I wanted to see if anyone else has been annoyed.


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## DominoDude (Jan 27, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> I have my eye on getting a 7DII at some point, so I wanted to know if any of you have run into the issue that Arthur Morris is talking about:
> 
> The Canon EOS-7D Mark II AF Grid Void



Hmm... That seems like a lapsus by Canon. If it's possible to have the option to "roll around" when you hit the far edges of the AF area, it certainly should be possible to directly skip over to the nearby part of the AF area.
It would really tick me off if I encountered a similar situation.


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## Don Haines (Jan 28, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > My 6yrs will be joining golf team next month. There are two options come to mind
> ...


It's annoying, but in a minor way.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> My 6yrs will be joining golf team next month. There are two options come to mind
> 
> 1. CPW-street price 600mm II
> 2. Cheaper way - 7d II + current 400mm f2.8 IS II
> ...



Having shot some adult golf with a 300 f2.8 with and without 1.4TC on a ff camera (I have the 2x but never used it even though I had enough light and don't even take it now), I would suggest the 600 on ff might well be overkill especially for a more modest distance player, I'd try your 400 on the 1DX first.

Not trying to talk you out of getting stuff though


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## tphillips63 (Jan 28, 2015)

Ok, good points! I noticed this when I got my 7D Mk II but it did not register right away. Not really until now, I just thought the gap was pretty large and has a weird look, anyway maybe for the thirds rule sine the area are fully across the frame and divided that way.

Not sure but something to watch out for in use.


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 28, 2015)

So this has not annoyed me at all. Has not presented itself as an issue that I cannot compensate for. The spacing could likely be due to the arrangement of the phase detect sensor lines.

I have my speculation based on AF characteristics and other anomalies I noticed that the phase detect sensors may actually be the same size as the ones used in the 5d3 and perhaps 1dx. They occupy more real estate due to the smaller sensor size. That could mean that even though the subject is magnified by 1.6x, the AF works no better than that in an respectfully reduced subject size in a full frame counterpart.

Does not really answer the gap issue other than perhaps the AF sensor spacing issue is also magnified by a factor of 1.6.

Thoughts?


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## raptor3x (Jan 28, 2015)

Isn't this really more of a cosmetic issue since the actual AF points cover a larger area than the boxes show?


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## takesome1 (Jan 28, 2015)

I am not annoyed by it, but honestly on still and slow moving subjects I keep thinking 65 points on a crop sensor is a bit of overkill.

I find other things to complain about with the AF system though. Precision being the most prevalent and the ability to pick up a small point the next.

The comparison was made that it is the 1 D x's little brother. I hate car comparisons but the 7D II to the 1D X is more like a fully loaded Volt compared to a fully loaded Tahoe. Both will get you where you are going, with AC and XM radio, but if you have driven both you definitely notice the difference.


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 28, 2015)

takesome1 said:


> I am not annoyed by it, but honestly on still and slow moving subjects I keep thinking 65 points on a crop sensor is a bit of overkill.
> 
> I find other things to complain about with the AF system though. Precision being the most prevalent and the ability to pick up a small point the next.
> 
> The comparison was made that it is the 1 D x's little brother. I hate car comparisons but the 7D II to the 1D X is more like a fully loaded Volt compared to a fully loaded Tahoe. Both will get you where you are going, with AC and XM radio, but if you have driven both you definitely notice the difference.



Yes and I've even heard some of the reviews state the AF system may even be a touch better than the 1dx. That is clearly not the case. A lot of hype at the outset. The AF system is great for larger subjects such as soccer players and motocross.

I am well experienced in case usage and settings having used the 1dx and own the 5d3 since release. I have tried various settings to maximize bird in flight success and so far most of the results are dismal. For BIF coming toward you at any rates of speed the AF system loses lock or can't keep up and best case you get about 5 to 10 percent in focus. With the 5d3 you get about 90 to 95 percent in focus. With the 1dx it's even higher...closer to 100%.

Also in zone AF modes the system is supposed to lock on the closest object in the zone. 90 percent of the time zone AF will lock onto the background.

I'm hoping some of this is just a firmware tweak in the phase detect software.

Short of that the 7d2 is a great camera but with only about 10% success rate for what I shoot its probobly going to spend more time in the bag and used for still subjects.


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## mackguyver (Jan 28, 2015)

East Wind & takesome1, thank you for your perspective as 1D X owners. I had a feeling it wasn't quite as great as hyped (compared to the 1D X), but it still sounds like a huge leap over the 7D. I think I'll keep an eye out for a refurb down the road, but the 1D X and 5DIII serve my needs just fine.

Also, keep in mind that Art Morris has pretty specific needs when it comes to AF, so I'm not surprised that he's more annoyed by this than most people.


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## tphillips63 (Jan 28, 2015)

I did get a lot of soft images compared to my 1Dx last weekend but this is the first time I used the 7D Mk II a lot so I figured it was me, still probably is but the 1Dx for sure hits focus nearly all the time.
I don't think the gap between zones bothered me much till I read about it. 
I also had two different lenses, 7D had the 17-55 and the 1Dx had 70-200 f/2.8L IS II the 85 f/1.2L II. I'll need to compare with the same lens and see if I still notice a difference.


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 28, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> East Wind & takesome1, thank you for your perspective as 1D X owners. I had a feeling it wasn't quite as great as hyped (compared to the 1D X), but it still sounds like a huge leap over the 7D. I think I'll keep an eye out for a refurb down the road, but the 1D X and 5DIII serve my needs just fine.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that Art Morris has pretty specific needs when it comes to AF, so I'm not surprised that he's more annoyed by this than most people.



Personally I think the 7d2 format offers. A Few advantages over the 1dx. However if it can't produce an In focus image even 50 percent of the time, it's not really worth it. A t2i produces more keepers. Just to put it Into perspective.


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## photo212 (Jan 28, 2015)

I received my Canon 7D Mk II on Halloween. I do not find the gap annoying at all, but that could be since it is the first step up from a nine point AF system.

Also, the in the article's photo, the focus is on the eye. Adding the blue-dotted points might have caused the focus to switch to the beak.


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 28, 2015)

photo212 said:


> I received my Canon 7D Mk II on Halloween. I do not find the gap annoying at all, but that could be since it is the first step up from a nine point AF system.
> 
> Also, the in the article's photo, the focus is on the eye. Adding the blue-dotted points might have caused the focus to switch to the beak.



With this camera even using spot on the eye would not work. It lacks the precision to lock on just the eye at this magnification.


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## Nelu (Jan 28, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> Yes and I've even heard some of the reviews state the AF system may even be a touch better than the 1dx. That is clearly not the case. A lot of hype at the outset. The AF system is great for larger subjects such as soccer players and motocross.
> 
> I am well experienced in case usage and settings having used the 1dx and own the 5d3 since release. I have tried various settings to maximize bird in flight success and so far most of the results are dismal. For BIF coming toward you at any rates of speed the AF system loses lock or can't keep up and best case you get about 5 to 10 percent in focus. With the 5d3 you get about 90 to 95 percent in focus. With the 1dx it's even higher...closer to 100%.
> 
> ...



Well, I`m glad to see that it`s not just me because this is exactly what I noticed about the 7D Mark II compared to the 5D Mark III. I returned it after three days...
Yes, the 5D Mark III is not as fast as the 7D Mark II but the focus precision is way better. For me, in indoor sports (basketball, soccer) it is around 75-80%. Of course, outdoor is even better.
I returned the 7D Mark II because I also got around 10-15% of the difficult shots in focus. Frankly, for me it was not much better than the 7D I just sold on ebay...
I will miss some features 7D Mark II has and 5D Mark III doesn`t but those are only user interface related.
I have to say, the 5D Mark III is a better camera in any way...at least for me.

Thanks,
Nelu


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## takesome1 (Jan 28, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > East Wind & takesome1, thank you for your perspective as 1D X owners. I had a feeling it wasn't quite as great as hyped (compared to the 1D X), but it still sounds like a huge leap over the 7D. I think I'll keep an eye out for a refurb down the road, but the 1D X and 5DIII serve my needs just fine.
> ...



For my use the only advantage is the small increase in resolution the 7D II provides. It is only an advantage on very small subjects like birds and then only if they are static. (focal length limited situations). I do not trust it yet as a body for pictures of animals and birds that are rare opportunities or action. So for my purposes it is a tweety bird and bunny rabbit camera only.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 29, 2015)

Boy I'm all ears and hope to hear more one way or t'other since I was looking at the 7D2 for BIF and my 6D is a dog in that area. I'd like more reach, sure, but 300 2.8 II X2 III has been really satisfying for me and 6D IQ is fine for my static bird shooting etc.

I guess what's needed is for more owners shooting 1Dx AND 7D2 to relate their experiences with AF since we know the 7D2 is a significant improvement on the 7D.

Jack


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 29, 2015)

Jack Douglas said:


> Boy I'm all ears and hope to hear more one way or t'other since I was looking at the 7D2 for BIF and my 6D is a dog in that area. I'd like more reach, sure, but 300 2.8 II X2 III has been really satisfying for me and 6D IQ is fine for my static bird shooting etc.
> 
> I guess what's needed is for more owners shooting 1Dx AND 7D2 to relate their experiences with AF since we know the 7D2 is a significant improvement on the 7D.
> 
> Jack



My opinion is to hold off a bit until the Servo AF issues are ironed out. If your primary purpose for the 7d2 is to capture BIF then you will be better off grabbing a used or refurb 1dx or 5d3. I have high hopes for the 7d2 but not in its current state.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks, East Wind Photography.

Reading the other threads, it seems you started out shooting a basketball game with glowing reviews when others were beginning to to knock the AF. It is really hard to sort out the chronic incapable complainers from those that have had legitimate issues. Have you, or others you're aware of, had extensive communication with Canon on this?

The old truth floated back into my consciousness yesterday - generally, you get what you pay for. 

Jack


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## bluenoser1993 (Jan 29, 2015)

Jack Douglas said:


> The old truth floated back into my consciousness yesterday - generally, you get what you pay for.
> 
> Jack



While I agree for the most part and would apply that sentiment to the overall picture quality that can be obtained with the given camera choices, not necessarily for given functions of the cameras. When the first 7D came out cheaper than the 5DII, the 7D had the superior AF. The AF from 1DX and 5DIII is proven tech, but it would seem canon tried to test some changes to it on the 7DII before then releasing a further advanced system in the coming FF releases. As mentioned above I think they will get it performing as it should with some firmware changes. Perhaps rushed out to market before fully tuned. If you want conspiracy, then perhaps the improoved performance will be released after the new FF bodies are out with the next generation AF and the performance levels will be realigned between model lines at there price points.


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## East Wind Photography (Jan 29, 2015)

Jack Douglas said:


> Thanks, East Wind Photography.
> 
> Reading the other threads, it seems you started out shooting a basketball game with glowing reviews when others were beginning to to knock the AF. It is really hard to sort out the chronic incapable complainers from those that have had legitimate issues. Have you, or others you're aware of, had extensive communication with Canon on this?
> 
> ...



Yes I started out shooting larger subjects like people and it seems to work ok. Still get mysterious AF lock issues but maybe 5% of the time. The problems are with moving subjects that move faster than people generally do and that are quite a bit smaller. It's not a bad camera but if birds in flight are your forte then you might want to pass. It's possible it does better on people due to iTR and facial tracking. Though with that turned on or off it still sucks on BIF.

So far all canon has said is to send it in to be checked out. No admission of fault. I'm about ready to do that. Though I'm not sure they can fix it yet and I may just be wasting shipping and insurance $$$. This is why I've been waiting to see if something gets addressed in a firmware update. Now that updates for the 5d3 and 1dx are out maybe they will have time to address the 7d2.



When the camera does hit one sharp it's really really good.


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## takesome1 (Jan 29, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> *When the camera does hit one sharp it's really really good.*



That is why I still have hope for the 7D II.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks East Wind Photography and bluenoser1993, I agree with what's being expressed. I have until the end of March to decide and maybe just stick with my 6D for now. Still spending time on the Queen Charlotte Islands is the plan and there are birds and wildlife in abundance including bears, eagles etc. so ........??

I'll be watching all the threads! :-\

Jack


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