# New iPhone: Final Nail in the Coffin



## unfocused (Sep 10, 2013)

I don't really get that excited about these sorts of things, but I thought it would be an interesting conversation starter, especially since there is ZERO going on with Canon products these days.

New iPhone:
10 frames per second; in-camera stabilization, white and amber flashes that can be balanced with ambient light, f2.2 lens, larger sensor, slow-motion video. (If I got the specs right)

Announcement was accompanied by a slide showing a DSLR and a boatload of equipment, apparently implying that instead of all that, you can use your iPhone and get the same shots.

Is this the final nail in the coffin for Powershots and other Point and Shoots? Should Canon and Nikon worry about their DSLR sales? Try to think outside your own personal prejudices and look at it objectively. What do you think?


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## RiceCanon (Sep 10, 2013)

I just read a recap of the Apple announcement and was wondering the same thing. DSLRs still have a huge image quality advantage of smartphone cameras but the gap is narrowing quickly for sure. I was astounded at the quality of my iPhone 5 images on an overseas trip this summer even though they weren't quite in the same league as my Canon. There were a few times on the trip I was able to take iPhone snapshots with great results instead of hauling out my Canon equipment (sort of liberating). What I'd like to see in Canon's next DSLR announcements is some of the more innovative features that are showing up in the smartphone cameras like those announced by Apple today. Come on Canon, get with it!


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## Random Orbits (Sep 10, 2013)

I've never had an iPhone but I do use the wife's iPad, and it's too slow for sports and too noisy for indoor/low light situations. My cell phone is about as dumb as can be -- no data, no internet, no text; just use it as a phone. Am I in the minority? Absolutely.

P&S sales will continue to go down until the smart phones saturate the market, but they'll still sell in the hundreds of thousands/millions. The problem with cell phones is that they are size limited. They are expected to fit in pockets (at least for guys), and they still need to provide all the other functions expected of them. P&Ss can be larger, and can use better lenses, larger sensors to their advantage. Perhaps whatever replaced the CMOS sensors will be able to make smaller sensors as good as FF today, but until those disruptive technologies arrive, we're stuck with incremental improvement.

A lot of friends use the phone as the primary camera already, but the quality of the pictures taken are not very good and they don't back up the data. So, what happens if the phone is lost/damaged/stolen? They get a new one, but they've lost everything. There goes a few years of pictures. Maybe they can get some reduced sized versions from Facebook or whichever app they use, but those often aren't high enough resolution to print. And when those companies go out of business or change their model, there is no guarantee that those images would be preserved.

Photography is a mostly a hobby for me, and I do it to preserve memories. I might have a dozen pics of my grandparents, and a few dozen of my parents before they got married, and a few hundred of them since then. Now that I've had kids, I've snapped thousands of pictures. We take the best ones to create digital scrapbooks (easier to duplicate if the kids want their own copies later), and then print them. My kids are young, but they've already forgotten a lot and they get a kick from looking at the scrapbooks, which jog our memories and get the conversations going. Those conversations don't happen looking at an iPad. Quite a few friends have remarked how they wished they had scrapbooks/photo calendars like that, but they don't have the pictures to make it worthwhile. When film was king, everyone developed their rolls and got prints. Those prints usually were stored in shoeboxes in closets, under the bed, etc. but people still had them. What will people have to show the next generation?


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## duydaniel (Sep 10, 2013)

Yes
it is time to sell your 5D to upgrade to 5S :


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 10, 2013)

I've found the iphone images to be poor except under perfect lighting. Even a cheap point and shoot does better if the light starts to get challenging.

I'd be a bit shy about believing the hype based on past performance of the Iphone cameras.


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## Fleetie (Sep 11, 2013)

Well the interesting point for us lot is that they decided NOT to increase megapixels, but instead stayed at 8MP, and increased the size of the sensor and so the size of the pixels.

Also, the lens is now f/2.2 .

Both of which will give better low-light performance, as we all know.

Also apparently it has optical IS now.

And a better flash system, though flash doesn't interest me much.

Apparently it will also produce 28MP panorama images too.

I will be getting the iPhone 5S, but mainly because:

* My current phone is a 4-year-old shed
* I am invested in the iEcoSystem already : MacBook Pro Retina 13" and Apple TV, so it will integrate perfectly.

However, I won't be looking to use the iPhone as a serious walk-around camera. I am still impatiently awaiting the high-end EOS M for that.


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## comsense (Sep 11, 2013)

Random Orbits said:


> I've never had an iPhone but I do use the wife's iPad, and it's too slow for sports and too noisy for indoor/low light situations.


iphone have better camera than ipads. I have ipad 3 and both iphone 4S and 5 are better.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've found the iphone images to be poor except under perfect lighting. Even a cheap point and shoot does better if the light starts to get challenging.



Its not always about the best IQ. If you do a direct comparison, iphone 5 (or even Sony xperia, which has the best camera in smartphones) will never be able to match the IQ of P&S (forget SLRs and mirrorless). However it has become good enough for most people (if not great) which combined with convenience push it above P&S. Phone spends considerable time of day in your hands and is handy when you don't even have time to take the camera out of bag. I and majority of people cannot keep camera in the pocket 24X7 (in addition to phone, wallet and keys). So, even though I always have/had P&S in the bag, I realized I did not get chance to shoot it even once past year. I used SLR for 95% of my photography and iphone5 for rest of the 'to capture a moment instantly' photography. It is also because I mostly photograph family, travel, nature and astro (places where I can choose to carry SLR easily). Looks like I represent the majority behavior and could be the reason for the demise of the P&S. Also important to the equation is the fact that even my 18 month old learned to take photos on iphone (simple and intuitive controls). I being a total control freak hate it about iphone but majority of people like it. They really just want to point and shoot avoiding all that fiddling with controls.


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## kennephoto (Sep 11, 2013)

I hate my iPhone 5, the 5s should have been the iPhone 5 no doubt. So now I will wait for the 6. Damn you apple! But thanks for sharing the specs on the camera on the 5s looks like a decent step forward for apple. Finally starting to show me what I expected from apple.


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## batotman (Sep 11, 2013)

Only, if you're kidding. 

Their promo photos never look like the actual ones. I'm guessing around the iPhone 10S we finally see the death of the P&S. 

I've been less than impressed with the camera on the 5.


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## comsense (Sep 11, 2013)

kennephoto said:


> I hate my iPhone 5, the 5s should have been the iPhone 5 no doubt. So now I will wait for the 6. Damn you apple! But thanks for sharing the specs on the camera on the 5s looks like a decent step forward for apple. Finally starting to show me what I expected from apple.


Its never worth to upgrade every year anyways (unless you are fanboy), esp. with costs involved in breaking the 2 yr contract (assuming you are in US). 
I too hate apple for high handedness and product hysteria they whip up but I hate other smartphones more (and yes, I have tried all dead/alive mobile OSs)


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## batotman (Sep 11, 2013)

Fleetie said:


> Well the interesting point for us lot is that they decided NOT to increase megapixels, but instead stayed at 8MP, and increased the size of the sensor and so the size of the pixels.
> 
> Also, the lens is now f/2.2 .
> 
> ...



The 5 has f2.4, not much difference. It's digital IS, not optical. 

At least the flash might be usable. The current one is utterly useless.


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## comsense (Sep 11, 2013)

batotman said:


> Only, if you're kidding.
> 
> Their promo photos never look like the actual ones. I'm guessing around the iPhone 10S we finally see the death of the P&S.


P&S are not going to die even with iphone 10S. Due to size (thickness) constraint, iphones will never be able to match the IQ of P&S projecting current technologies. 
They will just see a major dip in sales and their turf taken by shrinking and improving mirrorless cameras


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## Pi (Sep 11, 2013)

comsense said:


> P&S are not going to die even with iphone 10S. Due to size (thickness) constraint, iphones will never be able to match the IQ of P&S projecting current technologies.



Also, it depends which P&S we are talking about. The more advanced ones, like the Lumix ones and such are far ahead of anything that a smartphone can do.


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## Zv (Sep 11, 2013)

I didn't know about the IS, will need to read more about that. However I did read that the sensor is 15% larger and the aperture of the lens has gone from f/2.5 to f/2.2. All that equates to a 33% increase in light sensitivity. Sounds good but isn't that just 1/3 of a stop more? We all know how insignificant that really is. Might make a small difference in low light situations? (I think I'll do an experiment ...)

10fps sounds like 1DX territory but it takes 10 and spits out a few of the best. So you don't actually get to keep the full 10? And what is the buffer like? Does it take 10 then shut down or let you shoot continuous for longer than 1s? Could just be marketing gimmekry. 

The iphone5 camera (what i have) is pretty good and I wont be upgrading anytime soon. Especially not for 1/3 of a stop and one extra LED! 

The improvements are welcome though and it's nice to see Apple thinking about photographers and not just bumping up the resolution.


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## Brand B (Sep 11, 2013)

There is actually a pretty spiffy app called Snappycam pro that gets you better than 10 frames per second on current and older iOS devices. Works similarly to what they showed for iOS 7 today.


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## dgatwood (Sep 11, 2013)

unfocused said:


> New iPhone:
> 10 frames per second; in-camera stabilization, white and amber flashes that can be balanced with ambient light, f2.2 lens, larger sensor, slow-motion video. (If I got the specs right)



I've been wishing for years that DSLR flashes would adjust their white point to match the available lighting. Here's hoping that at least the concept (though certainly not the implementation) will end up in Speedlite flashes one of these years.




unfocused said:


> Is this the final nail in the coffin for Powershots and other Point and Shoots?



I pretty much declared those dead five years ago.




unfocused said:


> Should Canon and Nikon worry about their DSLR sales? Try to think outside your own personal prejudices and look at it objectively. What do you think?




Let me start by saying that I love my iPhone 5, and I love the ease with which I can get lots of day-to-day pictures with it. I use my iPhone 5 to grab pictures of random things when I don't have my DSLR with me. It shoots reasonably good photos within limits. Phones work great for photography when you're shooting pictures of people who are only a few feet away in good lighting.

But a replacement for my DSLR, it is not. Camera phones cannot possibly compete with DSLRs in two key areas: distance photography and low-light photography.


*Distance photography*

Camera phones typically have no optical zoom. This means that when you zoom in by a factor of 2, that 8 MP camera effectively becomes a 2 MP camera. It's like shooting with a 33mm prime lens, give or take. You can always crop it in post, but if you really needed a 300mm lens, you're just not going to be happy with the results even with a DSLR.

You'll never see a pro photographer shooting a wedding from the balcony of a church using a 33mm prime (same field of view as an iPhone 5) except when shooting some establishing shots. For the good stuff, they'd be shooting with a 135mm lens at a bare minimum, and probably more like a 70-200 or 70-300. For the same reason, you won't ever see anyone seriously photographing a wedding with a camera phone. Just for grins, I tried it a couple of weeks ago at a friend's wedding. The bride and groom were little more than a couple of blurry smudges. I deleted the photos.

Similarly, when I take pictures of the Pope saying the Angelis prayer next Sunday, I'll be using my 6D, not my iPhone 5. From any angle that doesn't involve seeing up his nose, he'd cover only a handful of pixels on my iPhone 5. On my 6D with a 70-300L and a 3x extender, before cropping, I expect to be approaching a medium-close-up from... IIRC near the first fountain, roughly a third the way across the piazza.

For many people who buy point-and-shoot cameras, zoom might not matter much. Many of them use the zoom infrequently anyway, and even for the ones who do use it, the convenience of not having to carry one piece of gear can outweigh the inability to get certain shots. For the sorts of people who are willing to spend the money for a DSLR, though, reach matters.

And to the extent that you can improve the digital zoom by adding more pixels, your low-light performance is worse, because there's an inherent tradeoff between pixel count and noise. Which brings us to the second area in which camera phones cannot realistically compete with a DSLR.


*Low-light photography*

There's simply no way to cram enough light gathering into a sensor that size to take shots that approach my 6D. The sensor is only about 18 square millimeters, by my quick calculation (1.5 microns squared per pixel times 8 million pixels). Compare this with 855 square millimeters for a 6D sensor, and the 6D takes in 50 times more light. Even if you don't do any binning of pixels and shoot with the 6D at a wider angle so that the subject covers the same number of pixels, that would still be 339 square millimeters, or about 19x as much light. So even if the iPhone 5's sensor miraculously captured every single photon perfectly, it would still be getting only a tenth as much light per pixel, and thus will still have much worse SNR. And although you can do a lot with noise reduction, it only goes so far before you start having to take long exposures that smear badly.

I can't see any phone ever being able to approach the pictures I took at the party after my friend's wedding, many of which involved little more than candlelight. You just can't shoot shots like that with a camera phone without unacceptable amounts of grain.

For those two reasons, I can't see a camera phone replacing my DSLR for the foreseeable future. If somebody builds a cell phone in which the entire back of the phone is a microlensed light field array or something, I might reevaluate that statement, but even then, probably not.

This is not to say that camera phones don't replace certain limited uses of DSLRs, but I would expect them to basically destroy the point-and-shoot market while leaving the DSLR market largely untouched. People buy a DSLR because they care about image quality enough to lug a suitcase full of heavy glass around. They're not going to give up that image quality just because they are already carrying a cell phone camera in much the same way that someone who spends $200 on a bottle of champagne every week is unlikely to give up drinking champagne merely because his hotel offers free Budweiser to its guests.


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## Rienzphotoz (Sep 11, 2013)

The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone. A case in point is the Samsung Galaxy smartphone with a zoom lens, which has far better options (as a camera) than any smartphone, but it isn't selling like hot cakes.


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## Northstar (Sep 11, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone. A case in point is the Samsung Galaxy smartphone with a zoom lens, which has far better options (as a camera) than any smartphone, but it isn't selling like hot cakes.



Reinz...I think you've hit it the nail right on the head with your comments....the average person just wants a photo of decent quality and they don't want to carry around a phone and a camera, and that is what smart phones can provide now days.(4 or 5 years ago, "no", the quality wasn't quite there yet, but today's smartphones "yes".

As a serious photographer, even I have found myself leaving the dslr at home and just taking my Samsung galaxy 8mp with me when I'm out with the family..etc....it's just so much more convenient and practical.


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## Don Haines (Sep 11, 2013)

It's not about taking great pictures, it's about taking good enough pictures. For the masses, it will be good enough.


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 11, 2013)

Might be the death knell for compact cameras... don't anticipate it'll come anywhere close to a DSLR for flexibility, form or IQ.

I can't say for sure as I haven't handled one, but I remember lots of death knells, how APS would kill off 135, how compact video modes would kill off camcorders etc etc.

I'm confident that for many casual applications an iphone 5s will be good enough.

Delusions aside, how many DSLR users consider themselves happy snappers?


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## Sporgon (Sep 11, 2013)

Yea the new iPhone will be brilliant for everything except making calls. Mine's come <> that close to being smashed against something solid and unyielding in frustration.


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## Don Haines (Sep 11, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Might be the death knell for compact cameras... don't anticipate it'll come anywhere close to a DSLR for flexibility, form or IQ.
> 
> I can't say for sure as I haven't handled one, but I remember lots of death knells, how APS would kill off 135, how compact video modes would kill off camcorders etc etc.
> 
> ...


At work, I have a 7D and an ipad. I probably shoot 95% with the ipad because it is convenient and good enough for the job. At home, about the only thing I use the ipad camera on is the occasional Facebook picture or short video clip. 

At work, I am most definitely not a "happy snapper", the shots are all very serious documentation of test setup and equipment.

At home, if I use an ipad it is as a "happy snapper", but not with a DSLR.

For me, It's not the tool, but the mindset and need that changes things between snapshots and serious photography


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 11, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > Might be the death knell for compact cameras... don't anticipate it'll come anywhere close to a DSLR for flexibility, form or IQ.
> ...



Nowhere in your answer did you mention a compact or point and shoot. Thats the question I was answering, as per the OP. Do try to keep up.


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## Don Haines (Sep 11, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > paul13walnut5 said:
> ...


Oops...

Compacts and point and shoots....
I have an Olympus waterproof p/s that goes with me in the kayak.... Definitely a happy snapper camera, would not use it for anything serious as the quality sucks ( I think iPhones take better pictures), but it survives getting regularly dumped into water.

I have an SX-50 that rides in a dry bag inside the kayak....far more cumbersome to get at, but it takes great pictures.... Not as good as a DSLR, but it does save RAW images and the wide zoom lens means no lens changes out on the water. For me, it is a crossover between serious photography and snapshots. An iPhone could never replace the zoom range.

For serious photography on the water, I abandon the kayak for a canoe, and out comes the DSLR in a pelican case and usually a tripod.


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## danski0224 (Sep 11, 2013)

Nail in the coffin? No.

I have a P&S camera, and my phone does take better pictures. Granted, the P&S is an 8mp Olympus Stylus 850SW- not exactly new. When I bought the camera, it took better pictures than my phone- which didn't have a camera on it. Rugged and waterproof is what drew me to that particular model.

I think I paid ~$300 for that camera and I don't think I have used it much at all since 2009.

A new cell phone is ~$500 - $700, depending on what you pick.

A "little bit nicer than basic" P&S still hovers in the $200 - $300 range. I can't see shelling out another couple/few hundred for an extra P&S camera, much less closer to $1,000.00 for a "really nice" one.

The images I took with the Olympus P&S can be taken with my current phone, and the phone does a much better job. It's also much easier/convenient to get the images off of the phone via email or send them off as a MMS message.

For another perspective, I purchased a very nice Panasonic Lumix for my mom for a trip before the iPads were common. Learning how to get those pictures off the camera and into the computer was something that never went well, and it is still a foreign concept. Now that she has an iPad, the moving of images from a card isn't a problem because iTunes does it for her. And, the iPad is "good enough". 

If anything, the cameraphone has diluted the P&S market.

Others like me have no desire to have two comparable devices.

Devices like iPhones and iPads have a convenience level that is very difficult to match.

My phone has a SD card slot, and I save the pictures there. Syncing with the PC has never been 100%.

The P&S may replace an entry level DSLR and kit lens eventually for some, but not for me.


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## TAW (Sep 11, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone. A case in point is the Samsung Galaxy smartphone with a zoom lens, which has far better options (as a camera) than any smartphone, but it isn't selling like hot cakes.



+1 I think this is spot one. Photography is a hobby for me. My youngest son learned to ride a bike a few weeks ago. I didn't run in and grab my 1DX or my P&S, I grabbed my iphone - which was already in my pocket. If I could have known when this was going to happen, I probably would have had the 1DX with me. Was the picture and video from the iphone as good as the 1DX... Absolutely - because it let me capture the moment! Would the picture and video of the 1DX be higher quality - no question. If I could slide the 1DX in my pocket, would I opt for it over my iphone - for sure. For me, the value is in the memory. Each have there place and purpose but I strongly believe the P&S market will decline quickly. I love having great quality images of my kids and wife but, for me and I think many, capturing the memory is the most important. If you can do it with a higher quality image, that is just a bonus...


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 11, 2013)

I think that us gearheads lose sight of one major thing... for most folk, photography is about the photographs, they don't care about sensor sizes, apertures, they just want nice photos of nice things they've done with the nice people in their lives. And if they can do that with an iphone (they can) then why bother with a compact?


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## Joe M (Sep 11, 2013)

People's standards have been steadily dropping. As they've gotten used to P&Ss of the past and then the itty bitty cameras in their phones, any photo to many is a good photo. Interestingly enough, I've seen a few people use their phones to make calls but the add-on that is the "camera", that gets used to document the minutia of their daily lives and quality, high or low, matters little to them. They are used to it, it's convenient and easy to use. 
Like some people, I find the quality in anything but perfect conditions to be less than desirable and even then it's simply a matter of if you have no other camera at hand, then any pic is better than none. Am I guilty of using my camera phone or phone camera? Yes because I was out and about conducting my life without the expectation of taking photos so my camera was at home. Was I expecting amazing resolution, colour, sharpness, 20x30 printability? Of course not. These things are about convenience with "good enough" (for most) quality of output. 
As an aside, I always find these phone updates from every manufacturer to be somewhat amusing. I've yet to hear of any major (though I admit I don't pay attention to phone news or peruse phone forums) breakthrough in phone performance. It is a phone after all but every new phone has some other feature or add on that's improved but the phone is still just a phone and hasn't changed much. I guess that's the only way they can entice you to buy a new "phone" by tweaking some other "feature" of it. Not much different from the camera world it would seem.


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## batotman (Sep 11, 2013)

Lol....yeah, standards aren't especially high in social media. I see crappy pics al, the time with terrible filters on them ala Instagram and comments like "wow, you're an amazing photographer" or "you should be a photographer" and I'm all, wtf, that looks like total shit. :


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## zlatko (Sep 11, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Is this the final nail in the coffin for Powershots and other Point and Shoots? Should Canon and Nikon worry about their DSLR sales? Try to think outside your own personal prejudices and look at it objectively. What do you think?



I will let Canon and Nikon worry about that. That's their job.


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## pinktech (Sep 11, 2013)

Nah! But sales won't be what they were.

It won't replace a camera for us enthusiasts, because, while pleasant and convenient, it doesn't have the IQ that we demand. There will be advanced P&S for those times when we want to go light. For tech-phobes, you know them, the people with cell phones that do little other than make calls, there will always be a market for basic P&S so they can snap happily in Automatic and take the card out to print at the drugstore or post on Facebook. 

I'd expect the selection of mid-range P&S cameras to dwindle, though. The phobes don't buy them now, and regular folk are switching to reasonably good phones, and the 5S sounds like a great camera (I like my 5, btw, esp. when I can edit and post images with relative ease; the better sensor and lens might get me to upgrade). There will be a few niche specialized models like superzooms for sports parents or waterproof for rugged use. Beyond that, though I'd expect far fewer choices than available today. Most images only end up as digitals anyway, and the quality difference between a good smart phone and a medium P&S shot once it's posted to Facebook post is negligible. And there's the convenience of carrying one device that can shoot, edit and post.

Not ready for a coffin, yet, but P&S is not the bright star it used to be, either.


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## danski0224 (Sep 11, 2013)

Joe M said:


> People's standards have been steadily dropping.



Really?

Today's cameraphone was unimaginable back when the EOS system was introduced in the late 1980's.

Even then, someone could choose from a Polaroid for instant results or a myriad of film options that required a trip to the drugstore or your own little lab.

I see no difference in the essence of the choices between then and now.

For many, a Polaroid was fine. Others used a 126 (if I remember right). Some chose the 35mm SLR.

The camera phone, P&S and DSLR draw nice parallels, but you can do so much more with a camera phone than a Polaroid.

Same cost parallels between the Polaroid end and SLR end. I paid over $1k for my EOS 620 and some additional bits back in 1987, a hefty premium over a Polaroid camera. 4 x 6 prints were a big deal, and now that is no big deal. 

Digital has simply removed the expense of purchasing film and developing it. You don't need a high end computer or monitor to store and view images. You don't need a high end printer, and for simple prints, it is cheaper to print at the drugstore. From what I can see, most of the images taken in my family are never printed, just emailed or shown on a computer.

As a consequence, the meaning or quality of many images isn't there because there are little/no additional costs to see the image.


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 11, 2013)

Joe M said:


> People's standards have been steadily dropping. As they've gotten used to P&Ss of the past and then the itty bitty cameras in their phones, any photo to many is a good photo.



I don't know that they have. From my camera shop days I remember folk taking 6 months to use up a spool of 36 in their compacts because they were scared of the cost. I sold a lot of folk olympus mjus, I sold a handful of folk a ricoh or contax. Nowt wrong with the mjus btw.

It would take folk six months to find out that the camera had underexposed, that the flash had given everybody red-eye, or that they had cut the heads off some folk in their group portrait.

I remember the second generation compacts, I'm saying 2MP-4MP generation here, when folk couldn't believe A) how great it was to review the images straight away and B) How many AA's they through and C) how much a 32mb smartmedia card cost. How much!!?!

The images did get better. The most obvious mistakes were deleted and only the good ones printed.

I remember when compacts actually got quite good, I'm thinking Nikon 5200, Canon Powershot G5. Nice glass. Lots of control. Probably not wanting to push things too much beyond ISO 200 though, eh?

To my mind peoples standards have been improving, but we are big on convenience. An iphone is good enough for a lot of social fun stuff, and possibly even good enough when you don't have any other camera on you. The news started showing footage from mobile phones (ALWAYS shot vertically.. c'mon)

The images from the iphone are great. Democratic almost. You have the camera in your pocket all the time.
Folk still treat cameras proper with a lot of reverence, oooh it's delicate, ooh its expensive and so great compacts sit in the drawer manual unread, battery uncharged until it's superceded by an iphone.

Compacts have got even better in the meantime, but to buy a compact thats better than an iphone you need to spend a heck of a lot of money.

Convenience is king. For most.


----------



## SwnSng (Sep 11, 2013)

Although I still think some point and shoots offer more, it's not enough for the general consumer to carry another device with them. With point and shoots the writing has been on the wall for a few years now and it comes down to just a matter of time. Sooner rather than later.

As far as DSLR, camera phones still can't remotely compete. The things it can do well is to take random shots with things that are still. What it can't do well is has been said on this thread: Sports, Low Light, Long distance, etc...


----------



## And-Rew (Sep 11, 2013)

New iPhone final nail in the coffin? Probably - and here's why

My step-daughter is your typical P&S user, just wants to switch it on and take the picture - letting the camera do all the clever stuff. Her iPhone 5 does that more than adequately even in nightclubs where she has to work some times.

But here is the bit that really makes her stop using a P&S - all pictures are automatically backed up via iCloud to her MB Pro & EHD at home. She has a few apps that allow her to process the pictures in all sorts of ways and send as greetings cards or postcards when on holiday. She can also do all the usual process things on the phone such as crop, adjust saturation or exposure, create a panoramic picture, add some filtered effects - and mostly whilst travelling on a bus or train, whilst sitting at home or in a restaurant waiting for food - or similar.

The convenience is just too much and so compact. Having worked in US, Australia, India, Middle East and most of Europe - i can assure you the camera has not failed her yet, and the promoters seem just as happy to use her iPhone jpg's for promotional purposes as she is to put them on her blog or web site.

Are they technically brilliant pictures - no. Would i be happy to have them in my portfolio - not a chance.
But the point is - her and the music industry in which she works seem more than happy with them, and especially the price of the pictures being gained for portfolio and promotional purposes - so sold on her iPhone is she that she sold her P&S on eBay to pay for a larger EHD to store all the extra pictures she was getting because the iPhone goes every where with her when she leaves home!

The P&S only went out if she knew there was pictures to be taken.


----------



## zlatko (Sep 11, 2013)

danski0224 said:


> Joe M said:
> 
> 
> > People's standards have been steadily dropping.
> ...



And many used 110 film. That was the low point for standards. 110 film was far, far below what phone camera will produce today.


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## DeadPixel (Sep 11, 2013)

No, the iPhone is not the end of point and shoots, but products like the Nokia 1020 are. Framework.latimes.com/2013/08/25/review-nokia-lumia-1020/#/0 
just look at the 100% crops and beach photos in that link.

While its no dslr, my Nokia 928 has optical stabilization, Zeiss elements and a xenon flash. 

I've never been a big fan of apple phones and their high price (and their loosing market share worldwide), but their phone camera is certainly nothing special.


----------



## Lichtgestalt (Sep 11, 2013)

unfocused said:


> Should Canon and Nikon worry about their DSLR sales?



definitely... who would not sell his DSLR to shoot with an iphone? :


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## RLPhoto (Sep 11, 2013)

I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.


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## ahab1372 (Sep 12, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.


What's wrong with it? I was considering upgrading to the 5...


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## RLPhoto (Sep 12, 2013)

ahab1372 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.
> ...



Its stagnant. Its playing catchup ever since.


----------



## BoneDoc (Sep 12, 2013)

I never owned an Apple product until 2009 with the 3GS, and I've been a happy customer since.

I have the 4S now, and I wasn't thinking of upgrading (since I have an iPad mini now), until I saw all the improvements on the 5S. The camera is a sophisticated piece of engineering, both hardware and software. IMHO, they took the right approach by keeping the MP the same, but enlarging the pixels, along with a faster lens. The other features is what makes it over the top (and something camera makers should take notice).

IS: for not having optical IS, this is about as good as it gets. It shoots a burst of 4 pictures, and then combine it together to get the sharpest possible

FPS: 10FPS... AND it analyzes them to pick the "best" ones. You can still access the other ones, but at least now, you don't have to waste your time messing with looking at every single frame. Or if it's an action shot, it will present to you the best sample of the action taken.

120 FPS video: Awesome for those analyzing their golf swing, or making those awesome slo-mo video. no need for interpolation because you can just use the regular frames at 1/4 the speed.


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## RLPhoto (Sep 12, 2013)

BoneDoc said:


> I never owned an Apple product until 2009 with the 3GS, and I've been a happy customer since.
> 
> I have the 4S now, and I wasn't thinking of upgrading (since I have an iPad mini now), until I saw all the improvements on the 5S. The camera is a sophisticated piece of engineering, both hardware and software. IMHO, they took the right approach by keeping the MP the same, but enlarging the pixels, along with a faster lens. The other features is what makes it over the top (and something camera makers should take notice).
> 
> ...



All this power and why can't we have an M mode?


----------



## sdsr (Sep 12, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:



> The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone. A case in point is the Samsung Galaxy smartphone with a zoom lens, which has far better options (as a camera) than any smartphone, but it isn't selling like hot cakes.



That sounds about right. 50% of photos taken with iPhones are of plates of food in restaurants that get posted to facebook during the meal; and facebook is probably the destination of most of the remaining 50%. For such purposes you don't need anything better, and in terms of convenience an iPhone wins every time. It reminds me a bit of iPods - people seem content to wander around listening to over-compressed audio files via crappy-sounding free headphones as their sole source of music. In both instances it's probably the case that more people are able to participate than ever before (taking photos, listening to music on the go); maybe for them it's good enough and they fill in the gaps with their imaginations rather than worrying about whether it could look/sound better.


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## Etienne (Sep 12, 2013)

I am always amazed when people go googoo for smart phone pics, or even the recent gush-fest over the EOS-M

If it's just a representation of the scene, you got it. But gushing over the IQ of these things? reaally ?


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## DeadPixel (Sep 12, 2013)

Rlphoto,

For those who want the "m", there's Nokia pro camera on their high end windows phones.

Using Nokia Pro Camera you can control settings such as: 
Shutter speed (1/16000 to 4 seconds)
EV value
ISO (100 to 4,000)
White balance
Manual focus 

Not nearly the same as a nice canon in M, but more options than the iPhone! 

I think the question to ask is really what do the average users do with photos other than digital sharing? I don't know many people that need or care for more resolution than their camera phone provides, I've used mine to make a few photobooks for friends and they've been thrilled with the results. Certainly wouldn't make 16x20 with it, but for the average user (I wouldn't consider the Cr forum user average ) their satisfied and without a strong marketing campaign by he camera oems to convince the masses the point and shoot is superior, their market will continue to shrink. 

its really a classic case of you don't know what you don't know, how many that gush over the IQ even know what a full frame sensor or even a sensel even is? Those are he people fueling the demise of he point and shoot.


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## Radiating (Sep 12, 2013)

unfocused said:


> I don't really get that excited about these sorts of things, but I thought it would be an interesting conversation starter, especially since there is ZERO going on with Canon products these days.
> 
> New iPhone:
> 10 frames per second; in-camera stabilization, white and amber flashes that can be balanced with ambient light, f2.2 lens, larger sensor, slow-motion video. (If I got the specs right)
> ...



The iPhone 5S is not even close to being a nail in the coffin of DSLRs considering that DSLRs have about 400 times less noise in photos, that's a big deal. 

However the iPhone 5S is a nail in the coffin of point and shoots considering it's image quality is better in every measurable and conceivable way.


----------



## Pi (Sep 12, 2013)

Radiating said:


> However the iPhone 5S is a nail in the coffin of point and shoots considering it's image quality is better in every measurable and conceivable way.



Aren't you exaggerating, just a bit?


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## ahab1372 (Sep 12, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> All this power and why can't we have an M mode?


Aren't there camera apps that have manual mode?


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## weixing (Sep 12, 2013)

Hi,
IMHO, camera smartphone will definitely affect the sales of low-end P&S, but might actually increase the sales of high-end P&S, mirrorless camera & DLSR.

Those who interested in photography will get a high-end P&S, mirrorless or DSLR at some point of time. Those who not interested in photography will not buy a decent camera with or without the existence camera smartphone. They might brought a low end P&S to satisfied the need of taking photo in certain occasion. 

With the introduction of camera smartphone, more people will be taking photo and those who initially not interested in photography, might get into the hobby. If they do, they'll eventually get a high-end P&S, mirrorless camera or DSLR due to better image quality... especially the interchangeable lens camera. 

By the way, the "100% view" button on the image viewer is the ultimate larger sensor camera promoter... once you press it, it's hard to resist not to get a better camera... ha ha ha ;D

Have a nice day.


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## Sith Zombie (Sep 12, 2013)

It seems like pretty much everyone agrees that smartphones will eventually replace p&s. I think DSLR's have stood the test of time and will continue to do so until some RADICAL sensor/lens tech comes along. Although I do think that the market may shrink a bit as more photographers/people decide the iq is good enough *for them*


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## BoneDoc (Sep 12, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> BoneDoc said:
> 
> 
> > I never owned an Apple product until 2009 with the 3GS, and I've been a happy customer since.
> ...



That's not who Apple is. I'm sure if you jailbreak, someone can potentially create an app to exploit that. But it's not something Apple is going to develop an API for .


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## Rienzphotoz (Sep 12, 2013)

batotman said:


> Lol....yeah, standards aren't especially high in social media. I see crappy pics al, the time with terrible filters on them ala Instagram and comments like "wow, you're an amazing photographer" or "you should be a photographer" and I'm all, wtf, that looks like total S___. :


What is important is the memory and what that image means to the person who made it ... a perfectly shot (meeting/excelling all photographic standards) may not necessarily be a compelling image for most people, but a "crappy" photo/video of a Saddam Hussain hanging is far more "compelling" to people ... at the end of the day its about the moment! Having said that, I do frequently see some awesome images/videos made with an iPhone ... so, I do not agree with your blanket statement that standards aren't high in social media.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 12, 2013)

DeadPixel said:


> Rlphoto,
> 
> I think the question to ask is really what do the average users do with photos other than digital sharing? I don't know many people that need or care for more resolution than their camera phone provides, .





Rienzphotoz said:


> What is important is the memory and what that image means to the person who made it ... a perfectly shot (meeting/excelling all photographic standards) may not necessarily be a compelling image for most people



This is what's important.

Photographs are not taken for the same reason. 
There are photographers who are interested in the technical aspects of photography for product or scientific purposes

There are photographers interested in the artistic aspects

And there are photographers interested in an image that either helps them remember an experience or helps them share an experience. 

Each type of photographer has a place in our community and each photographer has different camera needs 

The reality of it is that a photograph needs to be "good enough" for the specific photographer's purpose. And that means the camera needs to be "good enough" for the specific photographer's purpose.

For many photographers, good enough encompasses ease of carry. 

Who determines what is "good enough"? The individual photographer.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Sep 12, 2013)

batotman said:


> Lol....yeah, standards aren't especially high in social media. I see crappy pics al, the time with terrible filters on them ala Instagram and comments like "wow, you're an amazing photographer" or "you should be a photographer" and I'm all, wtf, that looks like total S___. :



At the risk of sounding snarky... Duh, its a SOCIAL site. People go there to be social. People, in social situtations, generally are not critical but supportative. 

When you are invited to someone's house and they ask you "What do you think of our new drapes?" What do you say?

If they are a friend, you say "looks nice" even though inside you are cringing. 

Protip: When someone, in a social situtation, asks you what you think of something, they are not really interested in what you think about it. ;D

If someone takes the time to post a picture on a social network, there are only two socially acceptable public replies.

1. Find something nice to complement the photographer on the photograph
2. Don't reply at all.

I like sharing pictures on Flikr. I always adopt the schema of complementing in public, and only if necessary, offering a critique via private mail. I rarely critique photographs as it really is up to the photographer to be freely able to express their art as they see fit. Its a social site, not a technical photographic evaluation service. 

Now if someone specifically asks me to critique their photograph, I will offer them my opinon, but in private. That way they can either take my opinion as advice or not and no one is embarrased.

When it comes down to it, we need to recognized that our opinions are not as valuable, to others, as we may think.

If Sally tells John that John really should be a professional photographer, and I disagree... so what? Sally is paying John a social complement. It is really not worth getting upset about. ;D ;D


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## Rienzphotoz (Sep 12, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> I hate my Iphone 5 and unfortunately, I don't have much of a choice beside just waiting for another generation. Apple trapped me here years ago with the 3G, Now it's too much trouble to switch and repay for alot of my stuff. Good strategy apple.


Although I did not hate my iPhones (which I've been using since 2009), I sold it yesterday evening (along with my iPad mini) to buy Samsung Galaxy Mega 6.3 ... I really do not like Android and the Google play store, but I'm just a couple of years away from turning 50 and having started to use reading glasses for the last 18 months, I really need a bigger screen ... iPad Mini was perfect for my needs but it wouldn't fit in my pocket and I also had to carry my iPhone ... so after having patiently waited for Apple to release a bigger screen (at least around 5.5 inch) I got fed up and bought the Samsung Mega 6.3 ... but if/when Apple releases a big screen phone, Iphone 'll buy it in a heart beat. Till then I shall suffer the Google's pain in the @ss play store and the cluttered feel of Android:-[


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## AvTvM (Sep 12, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone.



+100 ... Amen!

Additionally I would like to mention that carrying a smartphone plus Point 'n Shoot camera when travelling also involves taking along 2 separate chargers plus cables and finding free wall outlets if you want to charge both of them overnight ... etc. ... a total inconvenience and something I and many other people really loathe.


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## Zv (Sep 13, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > The reason for the poor sales of point & shoot cameras is more to do with the lack of interest of casual shooters, in any serious camera functions... any decent P&S camera will take better photos than a smartphone ... but casual shooters don't care about most of the stuff a serious photog would, the casual shooters only care about capturing the 'moment' they like and share as fast possible with a device that they are already carrying, regardless of the 'quality' of the image ... like my wife who likes the images of her iPhone ... the other day she took an image of a flower which to me looked very ordinary and bland, but she liked it coz it reminds her of a moment she cherishes ... she doesn't care about shutter speeds, fstops, ISO etc ... I think a vast majority are like that, for them carrying another device (P&S camera) is more of a pain, while they can 'get by' with their camera phone.
> ...



+1 for travel convenience! Also I use my iPhone for taking quick snaps when scouting locations, documents, wifi router info or anything thats written. I also use it as a lightmeter and dof calculater via those apps. And then there's the funny shit that you have to get quickly. The iPhones camera is easily accessible via the lock screen and it snaps very quickly. I can get about 5 or 6 shots in just a few seconds then delete the blurry ones later. Plus with snapseed you can fix em up. 

For paid work and artistic photos or portfolio etc theres always the DSLR.


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## discojuggernaut (Sep 13, 2013)

They probably didn't increase the resolution because probably 3/4 of pics 'shared' with an iphone are destined for FB, and will probably only be viewed on on other smartphones or 1080p monitors/tv's. Smarter move to increase the sensor pixel size.


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## Ruined (Sep 14, 2013)

Yeah, I'd go with the Nokia 1020 + Pro Camera app and you can do some pretty awesome stuff.



DeadPixel said:


> Rlphoto,
> 
> For those who want the "m", there's Nokia pro camera on their high end windows phones.
> 
> ...


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Sep 14, 2013)

If you think a mobile phone will ever get close to the photographic beauty of a full frame DSLR...dream on. It's a bit like saying an ipad strum along software will replace a top Stradivarius Violin.


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 14, 2013)

GMCPhotographics said:


> If you think a mobile phone will ever get close to the photographic beauty of a full frame DSLR...dream on. It's a bit like saying an ipad strum along software will replace a top Stradivarius Violin.



Imagine the Scots Guard, led into battle by a piper using a bagpipe app on an iPhone 

I think everyone will agree that an iPhone pales in comparison to a DSLR for picture quality, but many times it is good enough for the job at hand. For some people convenience is more important that image quality, and that's one area where the iPhones far exceed DSLR's.


----------



## rs (Sep 14, 2013)

The iPhone, like many smartphones is quickly closing in on the lower end of the market of many types of device, and in some ways, providing an end result which is good enough for everyone but an enthusiast. Plus the fact that these are all blended together so well into one slick, easy to use device, the experience can be better than a collection of dedicated devices. 

I own an iPhone 5, and as a result I have no need for a pager, Sat Nav system, MP3 player, PDA, portable games console, calculator or train timetable. Even products such as a compass, torch and a wife tracking device I can now make do without.

However, unlike the average person, I'm into my photography. So for my needs, the iPhone 5 and 5s both fall far short of my expectations - but I have reached the point now where my S90 stays at home all the time. If I want better quality than the iPhone, the S90 just doesn't do it for me.

I can see little point in the average consumer buying a point and shoot in this day and age. They are currently selling to people that don't own smartphones, people that don't realise how little difference in quality there is, or people that need zooms/waterproof cameras. 

For me, two big factors that influence image quality are control over depth of field and light gathering abilities. Both of those are directly influenced by the physical diameter of the aperture, no matter how small the sensor. So no smartphone will ever rival a DSLR with a big lens on it, unless the smartphone has an equally big lens on it.


----------



## Roo (Sep 14, 2013)

I think you're giving the iPhone way too much credit. I think Apple are only playing catch up on features with other phone makers such as Samsung. Each manufacturer is trying something a bit different (Nokia 41mp, HTC ultrapixel + Zoe,...) to try and jump ahead of the other. However, I don't buy a phone because of the camera features, I buy it for the phone and data features. If its got an ok camera fine, but its not a deal breaker if it doesn't. I've seen phone pics win open photo comps but they were taken under perfect conditions. To me they are only good for social media and the occasional ebay ad shot because the IQ is inferior and they have no reach.

I've been to a lot of concerts over the last 12 months or so and a phone just doesn't cut it. Unless you're close to the stage, phone camera shots are good for location but none are really worth keeping. I took my old Fuji P&S to a couple of shows, including The Wall, and got some shots that are definitely keepers. On the other hand, I snuck my 60d into a Springsteen concert and most of the shots were keepers even though I was just using the kit 55-250.


----------



## Pi (Sep 14, 2013)

GMCPhotographics said:


> If you think a mobile phone will ever get close to the photographic beauty of a full frame DSLR...dream on. It's a bit like saying an ipad strum along software will replace a top Stradivarius Violin.



I think one of the points being made here is that for many people, the Stradivarius does not really sound better than an ipad.


----------



## comsense (Sep 14, 2013)

Pi said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > If you think a mobile phone will ever get close to the photographic beauty of a full frame DSLR...dream on. It's a bit like saying an ipad strum along software will replace a top Stradivarius Violin.
> ...



I think one of the points being made here is that for many people, the Stradivarius does not really sound better than an ipad 
at busy airport terminal. ;D
(to be fair)


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## sleepnever (Sep 14, 2013)

I agree camera phones are getting better. Look at the Nokia Lumia. It won't replace my 5D3+lenses, which gives me versatility and customisations that a phone cannot do (at this point). My phone (HTC One) has a pretty good camera and when I don't have my 5D3 on me, I use it instead. Do I wish I had my 5D3 instead? Hell yes. But it compliments it, it doesn't replace it.


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## Botts (Sep 14, 2013)

I think it would be safe to say that flash gels might go extinct if the auto balancing flash takes off.

Could you imagine if you could develop a flash with super bright Red/Green/Blue bulbs and could do any light colour you want without gel?

That would be awesome.


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## Sporgon (Sep 14, 2013)

Pi said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > If you think a mobile phone will ever get close to the photographic beauty of a full frame DSLR...dream on. It's a bit like saying an ipad strum along software will replace a top Stradivarius Violin.
> ...



That rather depends upon who's playing it, but then there are those who can create a lot of _noise_ with anything, even a Canon.


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## Don Haines (Sep 15, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> Pi said:
> 
> 
> > GMCPhotographics said:
> ...


As someone who works on a military site.... right beside the firing range, I would like to add that a CANNON makes a lot more noise than a Stradivarius.....


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## lilmsmaggie (Sep 16, 2013)

Guess who?


"_A new True Tone Flash tops off the features. When you take a flash picture, the usual problem is that the ambient light varies in color temperature—fluorescent is cooler and bluer; incandescent is yellower. The new flash in iPhone 5S solves such problems with two LEDs, one a cooler white one and another a warmer one. Over 1000 unique variations of the two give you the appropriate color flash for wherever you're shooting, Schiller said_."





Botts said:


> I think it would be safe to say that flash gels might go extinct if the auto balancing flash takes off.
> 
> Could you imagine if you could develop a flash with super bright Red/Green/Blue bulbs and could do any light colour you want without gel?
> 
> That would be awesome.


----------



## jonathan7007 (Sep 17, 2013)

Forgive me if someone already kvetched on this point four pages ago...

At least a few more potential real estate clients will try to go it alone with each improvement" in always-with-me cameras. I console myself (and adjust my sales message) with the realization that they were not good client match in that case.

I have to aim at the need/client which has to be illustrated/served by skills that aren't coming from the camera itself.

So, not the *final* nail in the coffin.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 21, 2013)

DPR now has sample images up. There is little improvement over the iphone 5 as far as IQ goes, compare it with the Galaxy S4. The S4 wins pulling away.

The minimal improvement in the camera will not impact sales, there are a huge number who must have the latest thing. Most of them can sell or trade in their old phone, and up for 2 more years with little or no out of pocket cash, so its not a final nail in Apple's coffin.


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## DJL329 (Sep 21, 2013)

I'm going to Home Depot to buy some more nails.


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## Rienzphotoz (Sep 26, 2013)

My wife just got a new iPhone 5S yesterday and I am very impressed with its camera ... OK, I know it is no DSLR, but the IQ is quite good for such a small device ... the slow-mo video feature is AWESOME ... I can think of many uses for that slow-mo feature ... good work Apple!


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 26, 2013)

Just be careful with the factory settings on that iphone 5:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2432797/Richard-Barnes-ex-Boris-Johnson-deputy-embarrassed-naked-photos-posted-Facebook.html


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## AvTvM (Sep 26, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Just be careful with the factory settings on that iphone 5:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2432797/Richard-Barnes-ex-Boris-Johnson-deputy-embarrassed-naked-photos-posted-Facebook.html



oOOOO :-[

as per thread title! ... "final nail in the coffin" ;D


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 26, 2013)

A cautionary tail!


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## monkeyhand (Sep 26, 2013)

I just got a new Android smartphone, tap camera, tap camera, tap camera, loading loading loading loading, frame shot, focusing focusing, hit shutter button, did it work?, hit shutter button, ok I think it worked that time, nice an 8MP picture of what I didn't want. Sure iPhones work a lot faster (though my droid has a dual core processor) but overall smartphones don't even come close to a P&S for simple speed of use.


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## RLPhoto (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm getting a galaxy note 3. Sayonara IPhone 5.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 13, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> I'm getting a galaxy note 3. Sayonara IPhone 5.


Forget Galaxy Note 3 ... according to the email I've received from our region's popular online store, the below phone will automatically turn you into a pro in photography ;D


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## danski0224 (Oct 13, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> I'm getting a galaxy note 3. Sayonara IPhone 5.



I was leaning towards the Nokia 925 myself, but the Note 3 is a very impressive piece of hardware.

The ability to take handwritten notes, index and sync them, on a device big enough to be usable but still pocketable, is very appealing to me.


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## heptagon (Oct 13, 2013)

dgatwood said:


> *Distance photography*
> ...
> 
> *Low-light photography*
> ...



I'd like to add 
*Shallow DoF photography*
What matters here is sensor size divided by f-stop number. You can only make good lenses up to about f/1 and it seems cheap lenses are stuck at around f/2. If you want to go shallower, you have to increase the sensor size.

Or to put it the other way around: A full frame DSLR with a f/5.6 lens could be replaced by a camera phone with an f/1 lens of shorter focal length and a chip of 8mm diagonal and produce THE EXACT SAME PICTURES (or even better because it has higher quantum efficiency and less read noise).


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## RLPhoto (Oct 14, 2013)

danski0224 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting a galaxy note 3. Sayonara IPhone 5.
> ...



I have my Note 3 now and I'll never be returning to any apple products. It was some headaches to get over to android but now I'm set. Plus My note has 96GB of storage with 32gb + 64gb card. Its awesome.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 14, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> danski0224 said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...


Me too ... just bought the Galaxy Note 3 a few minutes ago ... but I will be going back to iPhone if they come up with a large screen (min 5.5) ... For now I like the Note 3 4G LTE ... got a 32GB + my earlier 64GB Micro SO card darned handy ... camera is not bad either but I will stick to to my DSLRs for that. But I don't like stupid Android/Samsung theme so I've installed iOS 7 theme.


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## Don Haines (Oct 14, 2013)

And don't forget wildlife photography.... You can use your iPhone for great bird pictures, like this flock of several hundred Canada geese.....


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## RLPhoto (Oct 14, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> And don't forget wildlife photography.... You can use your iPhone for great bird pictures, like this flock of several hundred Canada geese.....



Of course, Only good photographers get close.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 14, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > And don't forget wildlife photography.... You can use your iPhone for great bird pictures, like this flock of several hundred Canada geese.....
> ...


The iPhone at least allows you to take very good images if you get close ... but the images from Samsung Galaxy Note 3 sucks cow n!pples ... I'm quite disappointed by the camera in Note 3.


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## jm (Oct 17, 2013)

its a smart move - most people don't need more than 8mp on a phone anyways. but those slomo vids look excellent.


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## Rienzphotoz (Oct 17, 2013)

jm said:


> but those slomo vids look excellent.


Oh yeah, the slomo on iPhone 5S is seamless and awesome.


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## zim (Oct 17, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> And don't forget wildlife photography.... You can use your iPhone for great bird pictures, like this flock of several hundred Canada geese.....



brilliant ;D ;D ;D
I have to get ma sel one o' those...... doesn't have auto horizon squarer uper though


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