# New Adobe feature, Boundary Warp.



## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2016)

I know Adobe is a bit of a dirty word around here but today's update to ACR and LR introduced a new feature which seems very powerful and useful for those that do stitches. Lots of new lens profiles and normal stuff too, but it seems to me Boundary Warp is a genuinely new feature.

http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/2016/01/adobe-camera-raw-9-4-and-lightroom-6-4-are-now-available-with-boundary-warp.html


----------



## scyrene (Jan 28, 2016)

Yeah, I saw the report on DPR and was very excited by this feature. Updated my software - where is it? Checked the Adobe website and lo - it's CC subscribers only again. Screwed once more.

I wouldn't mind paying a small amount to add features like this to the standalone program, but that's not an option. Very disappointing.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2016)

Nonsense, you are not _'screwed once more'_ you bought a product that has more functionality now than it did when you bought it, you just didn't get the new features you were never told you were going to get, you did get the RAW update with camera and lens profiles and bug fixes for free though, how is that screwing you?


----------



## 3kramd5 (Jan 28, 2016)

^^ Large swaths of society consider not getting what they didn't earn to be getting screwed. Not getting what you didn't pay for is hardly a stretch


----------



## Stu_bert (Jan 28, 2016)

Thanks for sharing PBD.

In it's simplest form / examples shown, isn't it just doing the same as a manual lens correction of the resultant pano?

For the more complex warps, it does appear to be doing more jiggery to fit the frame....

So, how would one "report" that to a buyer - "I warped the pano to make it fit better", and is warping better than content fill - from a judging perspective as there is no "fake" data??

If Adobe continue to actually produce useful features like this for photographers, I may (re)consider a subscription, and retain my stand-alone versions for parallel use.

Did subscription reduce the number of instances from 2 to 1 as LR 6 did I believe (or maybe LR 6 was the first to enforce?)


----------



## Stu_bert (Jan 28, 2016)

They also fixed the Soft proofing "bug"

_"Soft Proofing RGB readout values differed for same file between 5.7.1 and 6.x"_

and photo merge should be twice as quick, even for the stand-alone users 

I'm fine (now) with the new features being cloud only, so long as I get the bug fixes and lens profiles.

I also requested on their survey page that maybe they should offer a LR only subscription sans Photoshop...


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 28, 2016)

I just tried it on a set of 4 images that I considered to be failures in Lightroom. These look the same, maybe slightly better, but still poor. The sky is mostly cutoff. It also creates a dng file, which I have no use for. I prefer the more universal tiff file from Photoshop. 

1. Original Panorama in Lightroom








2. Original Panorama with content aware fill in Photoshop






3. New Panorama created with the Boundary Warp in Lightroom.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

Interesting, must try.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I just tried it on a set of 4 images that I considered to be failures in Lightroom. These look the same, maybe slightly better, but still poor. The sky is mostly cutoff. It also creates a dng file, which I have no use for. I prefer the more universal tiff file from Photoshop.
> 
> 1. Original Panorama in Lightroom
> 
> ...



I am getting very different results, as Adobe say buildings near edges need a little help, but I am getting the best of Content Aware Fill and Auto Crop.

If you don't like dng then do the merge in PS via Bridge and Save As anything you like.

1/ As merged
2/ Auto Crop
3/ Boundary Warp


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

Hmm. I just updated LR. I don't have that slider at the merge menu. What I'm doing wrong?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Hmm. I just updated LR. I don't have that slider at the merge menu. What I'm doing wrong?



You have to have LR CC, do the download and close LR. When you open it again it will be there in the Panorama Options box with the panorama preview.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm. I just updated LR. I don't have that slider at the merge menu. What I'm doing wrong?
> ...



Yup on all those. Still no warp.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

Here's the Adobe example: 






Mine looks otherwise same but without the warp slider.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

Strange. So the LR System info menu says:

_Lightroom version: CC 2015.3 [ 1052427 ]
License: Creative Cloud
Operating system: Windows 7 
*Version: 6.1*_

Should that say 6.4? The Creative Cloud Dashboard don't ask for update anymore, but it did update hour or two ago. And I've restarted LR several times. Maybe time to reboot PC?


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

Rebooted PC, still no warp 

Adobe don't love me


----------



## AvTvM (Jan 28, 2016)

"That don't impress me .."
New feature seems to be of rather limited use.

Will continue to not rent CC but continue to use LR 5.7 until i buy a new camera that is not supported. Then .. Bye bye Adobe.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Jan 28, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Yeah, I saw the report on DPR and was very excited by this feature. Updated my software - where is it? Checked the Adobe website and lo - it's CC subscribers only again. Screwed once more.
> 
> I wouldn't mind paying a small amount to add features like this to the standalone program, but that's not an option. Very disappointing.



Same here. I just opened a forum discussion on this and flamed them.
"I want to install Boundary Warp in LR 6.4 but bought the software on disc. I have spent good money on Adobe products over several years and find being shut out of updates like this to be insulting. I helped support you financially. Worst way to treat a customer ever."


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 28, 2016)

Adobe GIF on their home page shows the limited usability of this feature.

Problem: Do not want to cut cactus top from pano.

Solution: I'll make the mountains in the background slide down a hill.

It will have uses. But its certainly not a wonder slide.


----------



## LDS (Jan 28, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> "I want to install Boundary Warp in LR 6.4 but bought the software on disc. I have spent good money on Adobe products over several years and find being shut out of updates like this to be insulting. "



IMHO these new features will be in LR 7 - if they still release it standalone. Thus you may have to wait for the next release, as it usually happened in the past to get new features. If you want new features - not only updates (bug fixes and new cameras/lenses support) - and getting them as soon as they are developed, you have to get the subscription - looks perfectly reasonable to me.

Otherwise is just like asking Canon not only firmware updates and fixes to issues, but also a 5Ds because you own a 5DIII and Canon can't shut you out of updates like that...


----------



## scyrene (Jan 28, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Nonsense, you are not _'screwed once more'_ you bought a product that has more functionality now than it did when you bought it, you just didn't get the new features you were never told you were going to get, you did get the RAW update with camera and lens profiles and bug fixes for free though, how is that screwing you?



I know. It's just annoying, okay? To see the same program getting more features in one version than another. Maybe if they called v6.x 'silver' and CC 'gold', it's be easier to come to terms with. I'm just pissed off at it, it's not necessarily a rational response. I'm allowed to be human *sometimes*


----------



## scyrene (Jan 28, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> ^^ Large swaths of society consider not getting what they didn't earn to be getting screwed. Not getting what you didn't pay for is hardly a stretch



I did say I'd pay for it. I don't use much software generally, but in some games you can download extras for money if you want them. That seems a fair model. I'm clearly an idiot for disliking Adobe's model, right?


----------



## scyrene (Jan 28, 2016)

dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I saw the report on DPR and was very excited by this feature. Updated my software - where is it? Checked the Adobe website and lo - it's CC subscribers only again. Screwed once more.
> ...



Wouldn't that mean paying twice for the same thing? Or do they give a discount if you already have some of the software?

I know plenty of you are happy with the model, but I personally don't want to rent software.


----------



## scyrene (Jan 28, 2016)

LDS said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > "I want to install Boundary Warp in LR 6.4 but bought the software on disc. I have spent good money on Adobe products over several years and find being shut out of updates like this to be insulting. "
> ...



I guess. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things. But then - it's *not* a big change. So making out it's like demanding a 5DS is a bit of a stretch...


----------



## YuengLinger (Jan 28, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Nonsense, you are not _'screwed once more'_ you bought a product that has more functionality now than it did when you bought it, you just didn't get the new features you were never told you were going to get, you did get the RAW update with camera and lens profiles and bug fixes for free though, how is that screwing you?



Do you keep posting stuff like this just to hammer those of us who see CC as a customer-is--never-right, robber baron business practice? Just to keep poking the same open sore?

If not, you could just stop relentlessly confronting the unbelievers.


----------



## unfocused (Jan 28, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> ...I just opened a forum discussion on this and flamed them.



Let us know how that works out for you.



KeithBreazeal said:


> ...I have spent good money on Adobe products over several years and find being shut out of updates like this to be insulting. I helped support you financially. Worst way to treat a customer ever."



Oh right. Let's see: you have two customers. One pays you a regular fee every month to have access to the latest products. One pays you occasionally, whenever he feels like it, to buy whatever the most current version of your product happens to be. Which one is the loyal customer and which one should you try to reward?


----------



## 3kramd5 (Jan 28, 2016)

scyrene said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ Large swaths of society consider not getting what they didn't earn to be getting screwed. Not getting what you didn't pay for is hardly a stretch
> ...



Then pay for it (i.e. sign up for CC). Otherwise wait a bit, I suspect it will find its way to standalone 6.



scyrene said:


> I don't use much software generally, but in some games you can download extras for money if you want them. That seems a fair model. I'm clearly an idiot for disliking Adobe's model, right?



No, disliking a company's business model doesn't make a consumer an idiot, and I don't think anyone alleged you are one.


----------



## unfocused (Jan 28, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Nonsense, you are not _'screwed once more'_ you bought a product that has more functionality now than it did when you bought it, you just didn't get the new features you were never told you were going to get, you did get the RAW update with camera and lens profiles and bug fixes for free though, how is that screwing you?
> ...



It seems more like people keep picking at their own flesh to create a self-inflicted open sore and then complain because some of us don't feel sorry for them.


----------



## unfocused (Jan 28, 2016)

dilbert said:


> If you want to pay a small amount to get these added features then subscribe to Adobe's Creative Cloud. It's that simple.



Dilbert is right. There! I said it! Hard to believe.


----------



## keithfullermusic (Jan 28, 2016)

95% of this forum consists of variations of these two sentiments:

1) Adobe sucks. Adobe is greedy. I have an irrational ingrained belief that software is the only thing in life that can't be rented. Getting what I want from software in the format I want it in is a basic human right outlined in the Geneva Convention.

2) Canon's dynamic range sucks. I'm switching to Nikon. I'm switching to Sony.

This is why I've stopped coming here. You have to wade through enormous amounts of trolling vitriol to find anything worth reading, and it's just not worth it anymore.


----------



## YuengLinger (Jan 28, 2016)

keithfullermusic said:


> 95% of this forum consists of variations of these two sentiments:
> 
> 1) Adobe sucks. Adobe is greedy. I have an irrational ingrained belief that software is the only thing in life that can't be rented. Getting what I want from software in the format I want it in is a basic human right outlined in the Geneva Convention.
> 
> ...



Yet you come here and state your position on the two most controversial topics (which account, from my reading, for only a small percentage of the large variety of topics) and then dump your own vitriol by claiming those who disagree are trolls. Hypocrisy crystallized.

This isn't about whether CC is good or bad--it's about not having a choice anymore. Adobe, being in the vanguard, gets the heat for its sales tactics--not the quality of the products.

Many customers justifiably worry about Adobe or other software companies maintaining quality or innovating once a large enough customer base is "locked in."

Celebrating a monopoly is shortsighted or an indication of having a stake in the monopoly.

PBD is the one who teases with posts about how we will think "Adobe is a dirty word" when talking about new features, then will slam the first person who wishes PS was still available as an upgradeable stand alone.

Wow, there are so many topics here. All very helpful to photographers. So just ignore the ones that you know will recycle the same controversies, start your own on different topics, or get out and take more photos!


----------



## keithfullermusic (Jan 28, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> keithfullermusic said:
> 
> 
> > 95% of this forum consists of variations of these two sentiments:
> ...



not sure what you're talking about, but i never stated any opinion. i'm just pointing out what people always say. if you want to know my opinions on both i will give them. i won't fight about them, and i certainly won't attack others for their views.

1) I don't mind adobe's CC plan because I think it's a great deal and finally affordable. However, I can see people's argument that it will lead to complacency, but I'm not looking for too many improvements.

2) Nikon clearly has better sensors in the current generations of camera's, but nothing so drastic that would cause me to switch. I also understand that DR is only one aspect of a camera.

my point is that it's too much trouble to sift through all the trolling on the site to bother looking for meaningful comments, so i rarely bother anymore.


----------



## YuengLinger (Jan 28, 2016)

keithfullermusic said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > keithfullermusic said:
> ...



My experience is that CR is one of the friendliest on the web. Always flashpoints among people of passion.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Jan 28, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> keithfullermusic said:
> 
> 
> > YuengLinger said:
> ...



It is. After a good nights sleep and a pot of coffee this morning, I came to realize that getting anything other than bug fixes is wishful thinking.


----------



## unfocused (Jan 28, 2016)

keithfullermusic said:


> 95% of this forum consists of variations of these two sentiments:
> 
> 1) Adobe sucks. Adobe is greedy. I have an irrational ingrained belief that software is the only thing in life that can't be rented. Getting what I want from software in the format I want it in is a basic human right outlined in the Geneva Convention.
> 
> ...



Don't forget: Canon is a) *******; b) out to get me; and/or c) greedy because they don't a) make a camera exactly the way I want; and/or b) put all the features of the 1DX in every camera.

Remember this though: like academia, the debates here are so passionate because the stakes are so low.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Strange. So the LR System info menu says:
> 
> _Lightroom version: CC 2015.3 [ 1052427 ]
> License: Creative Cloud
> ...



Since reboot didn't fix it, could one of you who has the feature working, check the system info menu and see if the version says 6.4?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2016)

tpatana said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > Strange. So the LR System info menu says:
> ...



Mine says 
2015.4 Release
Camera Raw 9.4 
Build 1060496

I did have an issue like yours one time, I had my cloned backup drive attached to the computer and that had an older version of CC on it that automatically opened, rather than the newer version on my boot volume. Check to see if you have two versions of LR installed.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > tpatana said:
> ...



AFAIK I only have one version installed.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 28, 2016)

dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



On the CC deal, you need to add the PS-CC also on your calculations, and that's way more price than LR, making CC much more cheaper alternative.

Of course if you only need LR you're kinda hosed, but who could live without PS?

So say you skip every other update, so purchase every 40 months.

LR+PS = ~$800 or so. That's $20/month. CC is $10, so half the price.


----------



## ChienLunatique (Jan 28, 2016)

Not really wanting to join the debate but I bought LR6 and have updated it. I now have LR 6.3 and Raw 9.3.
I have down loaded and installed Raw 9.4 but it does not show this in LR. No matter what I do.
The reason I am writing this is that lightroom journal says LR 6.4 has been released too - in their own words

The goal of this release is to provide additional camera raw support, lens profile support and address bugs that were introduced in previous releases of Lightroom. This release also includes a new Boundary Warp feature for Creative Cloud members.

I don't care about the Boundary Warp - just seems to warp the whole photo -it is the bugs from their infamous previous releases that interest me, but this option does no seem available to me. 
Is this another one of their upgrades that you might wish you had never heard about?
Here is the link LR Journal
http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2016/01/lightroom-cc-2015-4-6-4-now-available-html.html


----------



## pwp (Jan 28, 2016)

Boundary Warp seems useful. Like most of the new headline features that Adobe ships, it's not a silver bullet that generates a miracle result with one pass. Rather, it's a tool that needs to be learned. Your result may need a targeted bump with Liquify, or Transform>Warp, or Content Aware Fill, Patch Tool or even the good old Clone Tool. 

Most of us were fairly ham-fisted with new features when first announced, but learned to be subtle with them as time goes by.

-pw


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 28, 2016)

I think that some panoramas will benefit from it, but its not smart enough to fill in the sky or remove the foreground deck. 

I don't think that someone with Adobe 6.X is missing anything useful from the update. They are missing photoshop which takes things a huge step further when you want to do something that Lightroom can't do.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 29, 2016)

pwp said:


> Boundary Warp seems useful. Like most of the new headline features that Adobe ships, it's not a silver bullet that generates a miracle result with one pass. Rather, it's a tool that needs to be learned. Your result may need a targeted bump with Liquify, or Transform>Warp, or Content Aware Fill, Patch Tool or even the good old Clone Tool.
> 
> Most of us were fairly ham-fisted with new features when first announced, but learned to be subtle with them as time goes by.
> 
> -pw



That is so true, for instance I was disappointed that straight edges can get bent with the new Boundary Warp tool, until I realised that the lens info within the stitch is written to the file so the Adaptive Wide Angle filter in PS can straighten it! For the panos I have done in it so far, 15 odd, the Boundary Warp is far and away my favourite.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 30, 2016)

tpatana said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > tpatana said:
> ...



Today came home from office, Lightroom was again asking for update. This time it came with the warp 

No clue why yesterday it didn't want to update to the latest, just second-latest.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 30, 2016)

Quick testing. Un-warp 100% came quite nice.

Then tested on PS. First settings "auto + fill content aware for empty" came out really crappy. It basically left the left side out completely, and many parts were really strange. Then set for spherical and did the content fill manually after merge was completed.

Then identical adjustments to both. For these, I like the LR version better, but I think the PS version could be adjusted further to be better.


----------

