# 5d3 Vs 5d4



## sanj (Apr 23, 2017)

This is a genuine question, am not wasting your time. If I am not interested in 4k video on this camera or the extra 1fps, what advantages does Mark 4 offer over Mark 3? 

I currently have 1dc and 1dx2 but am looking to buy a travel camera which is lighter. I thought long and hard about Fuji Xt2 but am thinking not mainly because my travel photography involves low light situations and crop sensor is not ideal then. Also I will have to invest in new lenses etc. 

So thinking 5d4 or 5d3 (Not 6D as I want good focus points). So what advantages of 5d4 over 5d3 in my situation please? Appreciate. Since I have the 2 1D series, I want to save few bucks on a camera which will not be used so much.


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## Ryananthony (Apr 23, 2017)

would you be buying the 5d3 new or used?


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## sanj (Apr 23, 2017)

Ryananthony said:


> would you be buying the 5d3 new or used?



Used probably.


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## R1-7D (Apr 23, 2017)

sanj said:


> This is a genuine question, am not wasting your time. If I am not interested in 4k video on this camera or the extra 1fps, what advantages does Mark 4 offer over Mark 3?
> 
> I currently have 1dc and 1dx2 but am looking to buy a travel camera which is lighter. I thought long and hard about Fuji Xt2 but am thinking not mainly because my travel photography involves low light situations and crop sensor is not ideal then. Also I will have to invest in new lenses etc.
> 
> So thinking 5d4 or 5d3 (Not 6D as I want good focus points). So what advantages of 5d4 over 5d3 in my situation please? Appreciate. Since I have the 2 1D series, I want to save few bucks on a camera which will not be used so much.




I have a 5D3, 5DSR, 1DX and 1DX2. Honestly, my 5D3 doesn't get that much use anymore. It's a great camera, however, and there should be some awesome deals on it right now. 

Not having used a 5D4 extensively, and just going from the broad information that is available online, my assumption of what you'd be losing out on if you went for a 5D3 over a 5D4 is:
- Better focusing and metering
- 8 more megapixels (if you crop regularly, this could be a big advantage)
- Dual Pixel AF (even though you don't shoot video, this feature is still awesome for stills)
- Wifi for tethering
- GPS (I thought this was gimmicky until I started using it regularly on my 1DX2 traveling around Europe)
- Better dynamic range for boosting shadows, etc.

Does any of that stuff matter to you? You seem to be concerned about the AF system, as per your mention of not wanting a 6D. The 5D4 uses the 1DX2 AF system, and I can attest to the fact the 1DX2 AF is better even than the amazingly good 1DX AF. However, the 5D3 is no slouch and is more than capable for most applications. 

It all depends on you and what you're really looking for. Both are great cameras. It's just the newer model is better because of advances in technology. If you're not planning on using the camera much, however, maybe it makes more economic sense to go for the older 5D3?


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## sanj (Apr 23, 2017)

Yes R1-7D these things all add up. 

This 'travel' camera is for street/landscapes only. So perhaps one of the full frame Sony with one kit zoom and a 35mm 1.4 type of lens will make a light package? But but I will have to buy the lenses also. So confused I am.


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## AlanF (Apr 23, 2017)

Here is a detailed comparison that concludes the 5DIV is better than the 5DIII in every way (which doesn't mean that the 5DIII is not a great camera) and in some areas beats the 1DXII:
http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/eos-5d-mark-iv-field-review/

Any lighter alternative will mean some sacrifices for you. The 5DIV will lose some speed and robustness but where you don't need very high speed it has better image quality. You don't want a smaller sensor but the M5 is great for travel.


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## hendrik-sg (Apr 23, 2017)

As a 5d3 owner i remember the kick when i first tried the 5d3 owning a 5d2 this time, and yes it was iimmediately visible that it s much better and almost every way, except sensor prerformace which was the same.

i tried a 5dIV and the difference is much less obvious, at least in 5 minutes in shop.

For me, the biggest advantage would be the almost ISO invariant sensor, which would allow to underexpose at low iso, brighten in post ans so avoid blowing highlights for night shots. The other upgrades may be there for sure, but they wont save me if i am doing things wrong, or with other words, it's most times users fault if one can not take a good shot with a 5d3.

So i would really like a 5d4, BUT so far, i was not ready to spend 2000$+ for the upgrade, better get a speciality lens for this, or other equipment like a really good tripod, or take some lessons in photoshop.

This question may be a matter of luxury, if you have everything else, have no training needs, have enough money for travelling whenever you have the timee, and still have the money, i am sure you will really like a 5d4, as i would like it


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## docsmith (Apr 23, 2017)

I am a 5DIII owner and borrowed the 5DIV for a few days. I would agree that it is slightly better in most ways. The battery drain issue does seem to be real, where the 5DIII has better battery life.

The biggest advantages of the 5DIV over the 5DIII that I noticed were lowlight focusing, weight (noticeably lighter), better auto WB, and I do like the shutter/mirror slap sound of 5DIV better. It is quieter. I have also seen people pull more detail out of shadows, but, in the shots I took where I tried to view the benefits of extended DR, the 5DIII actually did pretty well, but the 5DIV was better and I do occasionally see banding issues with my 5DIII. 

So, overall, the 5DIV is a better camera, except for the battery life. But the 5DIII is an amazing camera in its own.

For a third camera, mostly aimed at lower weight, if you think of cameras as tools, I'd probably save the money and go for the 5DIII. If you liked to geek out with the latest gear, then go with the 5DIV, it is better, and, maybe most importantly, just a bit lighter.

So far, I am staying with my 5DIII. And the further we get from the release of the 5DIV and the more shots I take where I wouldn't have needed the 5DIV features the less tempted I am to upgrade.


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## BeenThere (Apr 23, 2017)

Wait for 6D II later this year.


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## KeithBreazeal (Apr 23, 2017)

AlanF said:


> Here is a detailed comparison that concludes the 5DIV is better than the 5DIII in every way (which doesn't mean that the 5DIII is not a great camera) and in some areas beats the 1DXII:
> http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/eos-5d-mark-iv-field-review/
> 
> Any lighter alternative will mean some sacrifices for you. The 5DIV will lose some speed and robustness but where you don't need very high speed it has better image quality. You don't want a smaller sensor but the M5 is great for travel.



I find the 5D Mark IV to be noticeably better than the 5D Mark III in real world shooting with an emphasis in the low light category. I have a 5DS, but it stays in the office unless I'm shooting specifically for hi-res and want to carry a tripod.
I bought a M5 for casual shooting and I'm really liking it. I took it on a day trip, leaving all other gear behind, and had a great time with reasonably good photos at the end of the day.
It really boils down to the question of what you intend to do with the travel photos. If your goal is to sell large prints of low light subjects, the 5D Mark IV might be the better option.

Here are a couple M5 shots with the 11-22mm lens:



Canon EOS M5 11-22mm testing Bird Houses 0235 Web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

This one is a .4 second(!) handheld through a protective grate at arms length



Columbia Fire House 0413 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## Hector1970 (Apr 23, 2017)

Luckily you have a first world problem.
The 5D4 is overall a slight improvement on a 5D3. 
Recovery of shadows is better. In reality the output of both is so close as to not be significantly different. Both are still quite heavy if were weight is one of your concerns. The Fuji XT-2 is a great option, good fast lens. I went with Olympus , excellent fast primes good output from the camera, small and light , crazy operating system.


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## Act444 (Apr 23, 2017)

Having experience with both cameras, I can echo what most have already said - to me, the biggest advantage of the 5D4 over the 3 isn't so much in resolution (the difference won't be noticed very much in everyday shooting, but does come into play when cropping) as in user experience. Several of my biggest annoyances with the 5D3 were addressed with the 4, such as EC in manual mode, greater flexibility with auto ISO and minimum shutter speed, the addition of Wifi connectivity - and some nice perks such as the "intelligent viewfinder" (I find I'm enjoying knowing what I have set while shooting), anti-flicker mode and white-priority auto WB make the shooting experience overall a bit more enjoyable with the Mark IV. The RAW files do seem to be a bit more flexible when pushed, but I didn't find the difference to be staggering. The Mark III is still a solid camera and I greatly enjoyed it over the 3-4 years I had it. 

In my view - it's a question of budget. Either camera will suit your needs just fine.


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## Roo (Apr 24, 2017)

Act444 said:


> Having experience with both cameras, I can echo what most have already said - to me, the biggest advantage of the 5D4 over the 3 isn't so much in resolution (the difference won't be noticed very much in everyday shooting, but does come into play when cropping) as in user experience. Several of my biggest annoyances with the 5D3 were addressed with the 4, such as EC in manual mode, greater flexibility with auto ISO and minimum shutter speed, the addition of Wifi connectivity - and some nice perks such as the "intelligent viewfinder" (I find I'm enjoying knowing what I have set while shooting), anti-flicker mode and white-priority auto WB make the shooting experience overall a bit more enjoyable with the Mark IV. The RAW files do seem to be a bit more flexible when pushed, but I didn't find the difference to be staggering. The Mark III is still a solid camera and I greatly enjoyed it over the 3-4 years I had it.
> 
> In my view - it's a question of budget. Either camera will suit your needs just fine.



Agree with all of that. The Mark IV is an excellent replacement but I'm still using the Mark 3 as a second body and it's still a great camera.


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## [email protected] (Apr 24, 2017)

I guess I'll dissent here. I think the 5D4 is significantly better than the 5D3. Owned both. How you judge that will depend, of course, on what you shoot. 

The big one for me is the f/8 focusing, allowing me to use a teleconverter on my 100-400 II, and have the autofocus be at least as fast as the 5D3 with the bare lens. In essence, it gave me the crop factor with the image quality of a full frame sensor significantly improved from the 5D3. 

The files are much more recoverable as well, with shadows able to be pulled up about 3 stops before it looks at all bad, versus 1.5 stops with the 5D3 in my experience. This isn't something you'd see shooting a floor model in the store. 

The extra megapixels are appreciated by guys like me who are often reach-limited and crop significantly. 

The difference between my 5d3 images and my 5d4 images was similar to the difference between my 7D2 images and my 5D3 pictures. A little more than a stop better when all is factored in. It's a well-thought-out, balanced camera that you have to use for a bit to fully appreciate. Of course, the 5D3 is at least perfectly adequate for almost everything. In good light in non-challenging conditions, there could be very little difference between the two. But if you're pushing limits, the 5D4 will indeed give you noticeably better images.


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## timmy_650 (Apr 24, 2017)

What I worry about is if you get the 5Dm3, it will be too big of a drop from you 1Dx2 and not like it. So you will end up just using your 1Dx2. Where the 5Dm4 will be a drop but i think a more manageable drop and have some pluses like an extra 10mp. 
A question you should asking yourself what camera will you be happy with? 
I would guess it would be a 5dm4.


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## pwp (Apr 24, 2017)

I updated my very high mileage gripped 5DIII (on its fourth shutter) for a 5DIV a few months ago. The 5DIII was a huge favourite, I loved that camera and the files it generated all the way from controlled lighting 100 iso marketing and advertising projects to high iso stage, industrial and corporate projects. 

What attracted me to the 5DIV initially was the consistent reviewers conclusions that the blacks and shadows were _way_ cleaner than the 5DIII, the more advanced and responsive AF, the modest gain in iso performance and the touch screen which I quickly grew to love with my Panasonic GH4. Oh, and the slightly reduced weight is always nice.

But it's proved to exceed my modest expectations. The files are just so darn good and more than up to the task for my fussiest clients and my own personal standards. The more subtle, almost intangible handling improvements of the 5DIV is what I didn't immediately anticipate. It was a bit like the step up from my 1D MkIV to a 1DX. Everything was more responsive and plain satisfying to use. A carelessly shot RAW has a lot more latitude in post. I've been stunned how much I can push a file and still have an image I'm perfectly happy to deliver to a client. Battery life does not seem to be as good as the almost ridiculous battery life in the 5DIII. Still, it's a very big day where I have to switch to a second pair of batteries with the 5DIV.

OP, it depends on your needs, budget and what you plan to do with your images. The 5DIII remains a highly desirable and capable camera that still cuts it against newer competition. But for a travel camera, this is no lightweight. I'd be taking a look at a good APS-C body or even MFT. When I'm traveling for pleasure, it's my Panasonic GH4 that gets the trip. 

-pw


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## sanj (Apr 24, 2017)

Thank you kind friends for your advice. 5d4 it will be then. 

Appreciate!!!!!!!


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## sanj (Apr 24, 2017)

The economics work out too I guess. I pay more now but get more when I upgrade. Evens out I think. 

But now my mind is drifting back to XT2. The size/weight difference really is appealing. But feel insecure about IQ... Don't have enough experience with smaller sensor.


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## KeithBreazeal (Apr 24, 2017)

FYI

This is a 5 stop push with the Mark IV



Canon 5D Mark IV 5 stop push LR6 3379 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## Grant Atkinson (Apr 24, 2017)

Hi Sanj

I pretty much use my 5d bodies purely for wildlife, but in doing so have found the 5Dmk4 to be significantly better, especially with low light image quality/high iso. I also find the camera a lot more versatile due to its great Live View capability ,and also M-Mode Auto Iso with exp compensation capability. I compared them here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eWocvAo2EA


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## Mars1954 (Apr 24, 2017)

As a wedding photographer and real estate photographer I own 2 5D Mark III's and 1 5 D Mark IV I loved the upgrade from the Mark II to the Mark III several years ago but I will say this once I started using the Mark IV I never go back to MarkIII's any more I love how you can bring out the shadows in post and control the highlights much better among other things I am going to sell one of my Mark III's soon to purchase anther MarkIV so at weddings we are using nothing but MarkIV's and my other Mark III would be solely a back up.


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## Quirkz (Apr 24, 2017)

I know you mentioned full frame and low light as important, but....

Go play with a EOS m5. It's very light and compact in comparison with decent low light for aps c. I got one recently and am impressed. I love my 5d4, but you'd only call it a light travel camera in comparison to a 1dx....

If low light and smaller size are critical, then a sony a7s with a wide prime is a reasonable option, but the ecosystem is expensive to buy in to. I got one with a 0.95 50mm manual focus. Gorgeous low light, but I ended up hardly taking it on trips. Not so much lighter, and I didn't want to spend more money on making it versatile with a couple of zooms - which were just as large as my canon ones anyway. 

In summary, 5d4 is not going to make much a difference in your backpack after you pack a couple decent lenses. An m5 will, and might be good enough for you.


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## sanj (Apr 24, 2017)

Quirkz said:


> I know you mentioned full frame and low light as important, but....
> 
> Go play with a EOS m5. It's very light and compact in comparison with decent low light for aps c. I got one recently and am impressed. I love my 5d4, but you'd only call it a light travel camera in comparison to a 1dx....
> 
> ...



I was confused to begin with. Now you confuse me more!!! ;D 
If I was to buy the smaller sensor then it would be Fuji XT2. The lenses available are better....


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## Quirkz (Apr 24, 2017)

sanj said:


> I was confused to begin with. Now you confuse me more!!! ;D
> If I was to buy the smaller sensor then it would be Fuji XT2. The lenses available are better....



Sorry :

Just ask yourself and think really carefully, why is the 1dx too big, what size do you want it, and how many lenses do you want to carry. 

I love my 5d4, but it's not going to save you space unless you limit yourself to a single moderate zoom like a 24-70 2.8

If you want smaller than that you have to sacrifice some lowlight and go aps-c. But I think you know this, you're just reluctant to make that call . Fuji is also a great option vs the EOS m5, though with the m5 you can carry some of your existing smaller canon primes with the adapter.

For me, it's always the lenses that weigh down my backpack 

If it's NOT about the weight of your bags, but about carrying around a less intimidating 'pro' camera than the 1dx, then the 5d4 will serve. That's why I chose the 5d4 instead of 1dx2 when refreshing recently. 

Only you know which answer is right for you  another fun option is a fixed lens 35mm equivalent Fuji. They're really pocketable and force you to think creatively.

Good luck!


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## tomscott (Apr 24, 2017)

I have no experience with the 5DMKIV.

I did have a very high milage 5DMKIII that I loved. Took it round the world in some of the most inhospitable environments, hundreds of weddings and motorsport events. Unfortunately my house was burgled and the camera was stolen with a 100mm L macro.

Ive been struggling to decide on a replacement with the decision between a III IV or an SR. 

The III is such a good camera, love the files and the file size but have hit the wall of the DR a couple of times mostly in Landscape and dark wedding environments where you can't illuminate everything. What I do have experience with is I the 7DMKII.

After the original reviews I thought the 7DMKII was a lacklustre update. But I wanted a little more FPS and focal length for wildlife. So I took the 5DMKIII 7DMKII 100-400mm 24-105mm and 16-35mm F2.8 traveling, quite weighty but traveled around 100,000 miles and didn't really find it difficult. 

The 7DMKII seemed a logical choice and although it is a crop camera the files even at high ISO are impressive I think. I shot gorillas in between 1600-6400ISO in the jungles of Uganda and got some fantastic images and for a crop camera incredible results. Obviously the crop sensors don't have the magical look and feel of full frame but impressive so much so that the 5DMKIII started to get left in the bag.

What I didn't expect was how it feels so much more responsive and a joy to use just the small things like the viewfinder, AF selection dial, GPS, Dual pixel AF etc makes the day to day use such a pleasure and tbh the MKIII did feel a little old in that respect.

Im sure the 5DMKIV would feel a very similar in terms of all the little updates actually becoming a much better all round camera. 

But a low milage <20k 5DMKIII is around £1400 and a new IV is £3500 and a low milage SR is around £2000.

Struggling to justify the cost to myself although I know I will love it, I just have a feeling that there will be a sharp price decrease like the 5DMKIII after around a year. Its not overly inspiring compared to some of the competition but they just work so well. Difficult one that I can't quite decide on! Watching reviews some think its amazing others think lacklustre.


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## sanj (Apr 25, 2017)

tomscott said:


> I have no experience with the 5DMKIV.
> 
> I did have a very high milage 5DMKIII that I loved. Took it round the world in some of the most inhospitable environments, hundreds of weddings and motorsport events. Unfortunately my house was burgled and the camera was stolen with a 100mm L macro.
> 
> ...



I used the 7D1 for a bit. Did not like the IQ so got rid of it. So many things you thinking, I keep thinking too.


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## sanj (Apr 25, 2017)

Quirkz said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > I was confused to begin with. Now you confuse me more!!! ;D
> ...



If I get M5 I want the smaller lenses without adaptors. I think I should check high ISO results of Fuji XT2. I will go will just the kit lens and 23mm 1.4 lens. That will be a huge size reduction. Thanks again.


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## docsmith (Apr 27, 2017)

So, my camera line up is 5DIII, M3, G7X II, and iPhone. iPhone images are pretty much only good, IMO, when viewed on an iPhone. Put it on a monitor and it is better than nothing, but the flaws really start becoming apparent. Especially the screen side "selfie" camera.

Assuming we are talking about personal and not professional use, the G7X II is actually pretty darn capable. So far I really like the images I am getting off of it. They are noticeably better than the iPhone and it can fit in my jeans/pants pocket. Very portable. Other nice feature is that the battery can be recharged in the camera. This was a significant selling feature for me, but I should forewarn, so far I have only been able to do it with certain combinations. But, I have figured it out and I usually have at least this camera with me while traveling for work. Also, f/1.8 to f/2.8 does allow some DoF and subject separation (just a little). 

The M3 is actually pretty impressive. The big issue is AF on moving subjects and flare from the lenses. But on static subjects it is very good. I used to own both the m1 and 7D. I'd say the images coming off the M3 are better. The on camera flash works very well for short distances, but I often travel with a 270 II. Today, I'd be looking at the M5 or M6. But I have built a mini-kit around the M3 including the 11-22 (great lens), 22 f/2 (good but do not love even though others seem too), 18-55 (good, most used), and 28 f/3.5 macro (interesting, but little used). I am likely to add the 55-200. 

Then the 5D III. I actually do not mind travelling with it, even for non-photography dedicated trips. I usually do something like 16-35 f/4 IS or 24-70 II with the 70-300 L. Two to three lenses and body really fit in a backpack nicely. 

But I will say that I enjoy having the smaller cameras for times when I do not or cannot have a camera backpack with me. The G7X II goes right in my computer back, and then the M3 can travel well even in my carryon bag. 

It is good to have options and, as they say, the best camera is the one you have with you.


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## Quirkz (May 12, 2017)

I'm curious: what did you decide in the end, and how has it worked out?


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## cayenne (May 12, 2017)

I'd say one point in the 5D3's favor...is that you can put Magic Lantern on it, and get some very interesting added capabilities......

Something to consider.

HTH,

cayenne


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## sanj (May 12, 2017)

Quirkz said:


> I'm curious: what did you decide in the end, and how has it worked out?



Decided on buying the 5d4. Will buy it shortly. Thanks for asking. 
Or I may decide on not selling the 1dx and continue with it. 
Thanks buddy


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## rlarsen (May 24, 2017)

I enjoyed the many comments here. I decided not to upgrade until major price reductions become availabe. Going to the 5Dlll from the 1Dmkll was a treat. My favorite features are the silent shutter and high iso quality. I have issues that I hope are improved with the mk4. Excess red/magenta in skintone. Auto exposure / metering easily fooled, hard to see AF sensors in dim light, TTL flash metering mostly unreliable. Still I love my mklll bodies and will wait however long it takes for big price reductions.


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## ScottyP (May 25, 2017)

rlarsen said:


> I enjoyed the many comments here. I decided not to upgrade until major price reductions become availabe. Going to the 5Dlll from the 1Dmkll was a treat. My favorite features are the silent shutter and high iso quality. I have issues that I hope are improved with the mk4. Excess red/magenta in skintone. Auto exposure / metering easily fooled, hard to see AF sensors in dim light, TTL flash metering mostly unreliable. Still I love my mklll bodies and will wait however long it takes for big price reductions.



Sorry to say you didn't get your red AF points wish in the 5d4. Maybe the 5d5, eh? It is the reason I don't own one now. Had it in my hand but I couldn't even keep track of my selected AF point in the B&H showroom when aiming at a darker corner or black things. I am holding out to see the 6d2 in July.


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## cpsico (May 25, 2017)

You would love everything about the 5DIV, its amazingly customizable, great dynamic range, very quiet shutter. 
Good up to iso 6400 with proper noise reduction in post, 1600 is a dream out of camera. One drawback... Battery life is still very good but not on par with the 5d III or 6d 





tomscott said:


> I have no experience with the 5DMKIV.
> 
> I did have a very high milage 5DMKIII that I loved. Took it round the world in some of the most inhospitable environments, hundreds of weddings and motorsport events. Unfortunately my house was burgled and the camera was stolen with a 100mm L macro.
> 
> ...


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## Pookie (May 25, 2017)

I bought a 5D4 and a 35mm II for our month in Maui. I've been shooting UW free diving and scuba with both the 5D3 and 5D4 with over 3000 shots on both rigs. I can honestly say there is little difference between the two bodies in some of the most demanding low light situations I can think of. The 5D4 is a slight improvement but nothing to rave about or make the 5D3 obsolete. I'll have plenty of examples up in about a week once back to the mainland.

The other body i picked up for this trip is the 6D... A so called low light body. What a joke that is, I'll take the 5D3 any day of the week over that body. It struggles when the D3 or D4 just chugs along.


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## Hjalmarg1 (May 25, 2017)

sanj said:


> I currently have 1dc and 1dx2 but am looking to buy a travel camera which is lighter. I thought long and hard about Fuji Xt2 but am thinking not mainly because my travel photography involves low light situations and crop sensor is not ideal then. Also I will have to invest in new lenses etc.
> 
> So thinking 5d4 or 5d3 (Not 6D as I want good focus points). So what advantages of 5d4 over 5d3 in my situation please? Appreciate. Since I have the 2 1D series, I want to save few bucks on a camera which will not be used so much.


I will clear your concern about low light and high ISO with the X-T2. X-T2 AF performs admirably and output noise of my 5D3 and X-T2 at ISO 3,200-6,400 is essentially the same. On the other hand, once you get the X-T2 you'll be tempted to purchase more lenses that you may expect. I started with the kit lens and now I have 6 lenses


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## tomscott (May 25, 2017)

Pookie said:


> I bought a 5D4 and a 35mm II for our month in Maui. I've been shooting UW free diving and scuba with both the 5D3 and 5D4 with over 3000 shots on both rigs. I can honestly say there is little difference between the two bodies in some of the most demanding low light situations I can think of. The 5D4 is a slight improvement but nothing to rave about or make the 5D3 obsolete. I'll have plenty of examples up in about a week once back to the mainland.
> 
> The other body i picked up for this trip is the 6D... A so called low light body. What a joke that is, I'll take the 5D3 any day of the week over that body. It struggles when the D3 or D4 just chugs along.



Interesting. All the raw files I have looked at 5d3vs4 the 4 doesnt show the banding and colour noise issues that the 3 does which shows its head in many situations. The usable DR of the 4 seems much better than the 3 too.

Whether that is worth the £1000 extra is down to what you shoot I suppose. I shoot weddings and in the dark environments I think a worthy improvement from what ive seen.

I made my mind up and going for the 4 after 4 years with the 3 just waiting for some deals.


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## tomscott (May 25, 2017)

cpsico said:


> You would love everything about the 5DIV, its amazingly customizable, great dynamic range, very quiet shutter.
> Good up to iso 6400 with proper noise reduction in post, 1600 is a dream out of camera. One drawback... Battery life is still very good but not on par with the 5d III or 6d



Thanks for your feedback appreciate it!


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## hbr (May 25, 2017)

Pookie said:


> The other body i picked up for this trip is the 6D... A so called low light body. What a joke that is, I'll take the 5D3 any day of the week over that body. It struggles when the D3 or D4 just chugs along.



Hi, Pookie.

Could you elaborate a little more about your struggles with the 6D? I have a choice to make soon between the 6D II, (when it comes out), vs the 5D III. My budget is give or take about $2.000 USD. I see that the Canon store has refurbished 5D III's in stock for $2,000. I must wait and see the specs of the 6D II before I make my decision.

With my current 6D, I use the 70-200 F/2.8 L USM and the 24-70 F/2.8 L II and have never had any problems focusing with the center point in almost complete darkness. I know that many people have called the 6d, "the low light king," but in reality I think that they are talking about the AF center point in low light.

It will be a hard decision.

Brian


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## privatebydesign (May 25, 2017)

sanj said:


> Quirkz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious: what did you decide in the end, and how has it worked out?
> ...



There is a very noticeable difference in the raw files and the processing capacity within them of the 5D MkIII to the 5D MkIV and the 1DX to the 1DX MkII. If you never touch the shadows slider in post then you could be forgiven for not seeing that huge change. 

The more difficult thing to not notice is the improvements in the AF, the newer two cameras have snappier and more accurate AF. Now depending on your general subject matter the earlier cameras are great and more than capable, model shoots, landscapes etc etc are easily served by any camera, but start to shoot lower light, more difficult subject movement or contrast conditions and the 5D MkIV and 1Dx MkII are going to get you more keepers (as newer models should).

I was testing my AF last night and was achieving good focus at -2.33 EV (1/6 sec, f2.8, ISO 25,600) with a 100mm L Macro, not the best focusing lens out there.

As a last standout difference between the newer and older cameras has to be customization, if you are a 'use it out of the box' kind of person (I have been until this latest iteration) you won't notice the differences, however if you are the kind of person who shoots varied situations in quick order and like to have a button for that then the newer cameras are good improvements.


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## tomscott (May 25, 2017)

I think the thing is with these cameras is for many they are pro bodies. With pro purpose and are economical decisions and not lusted after rather needed.

I used mine for 4 years professionally with numerous other bodies as back ups. Before it was stolen and the thing needed a new shutter, most of the rubber grip was warn away the mode dial was a little dodgy. Basically it has been used within an inch of its life and wasnt really worth a great deal. That 4-5 year period between a new body is more than enough time to go through 2-3 shutters so for many its more they need a new camera rather than these features are going to make the absolute difference. The cameras more than make their money back in spades and it makes sense from an economical point of view. A brand new camera with a 2 year warranty or the older cameras with less reliability cost of downtime to repair etc.

Its obvious technology speed is slowing with DSLRs and they are incredible cameras the III will create amazing pictures in pretty much any situation. The newer ones are perfecting small issues, evolving rather than recreating. The new features of the IV will make the everyday use of the cameras better and the obvious speed gains in operation, added features increased resolution and IQ will have added value.

At £3500 over 4 years basically costs £20 a week. Two bodies makes sense.

I just like to wait 6 months or so for a little more cost saving and ensure the cameras dont have any issues so early adoption down time wont be a problem.


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## Pookie (May 26, 2017)

hbr said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > The other body i picked up for this trip is the 6D... A so called low light body. What a joke that is, I'll take the 5D3 any day of the week over that body. It struggles when the D3 or D4 just chugs along.
> ...



The 6D is ok at the center but that is about it. The 5D3 and 5D4 is useful throughout the focus points and when shooting in low light that is truly king... especially in events and on the fly. 

The 6D is for my wife to replace her very old and beat up 7D... I had a day with it and the 5D3. The 5D3 had the 24-70 II and the 6D had a 50 1.4... The 6D struggled endlessly. The 5D3 just worked, every time throughout the entire frame.


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## Pookie (May 26, 2017)

tomscott said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a 5D4 and a 35mm II for our month in Maui. I've been shooting UW free diving and scuba with both the 5D3 and 5D4 with over 3000 shots on both rigs. I can honestly say there is little difference between the two bodies in some of the most demanding low light situations I can think of. The 5D4 is a slight improvement but nothing to rave about or make the 5D3 obsolete. I'll have plenty of examples up in about a week once back to the mainland.
> ...



There is a difference but again, nothing that blows the doors off the 5D3. I personally never had a banding issue but I don't yank shadows from the deepest depths... ever. Shadows are shadows for a reason and if I don't like the look I shoot with strobes (even in wedding venues). Something about over processing the crap out of images to "rescue" shadows just looks very amateurish and only leads to major problems down the road. I actually believe it's the hobbyist that "need" to rescue shadows more than any other group of photographers I know of. Probably explains why it's so popular here on this forum.

I just spent the entire month of May shooting underwater and free diving in very low light situs and there really is only a slight difference in the two bodies. I own 7 5D3's for my business and now a 5D4 for personal use. I shoot weddings and commercial portraiture for a living. I run a studio and employ 6 other shooters to cover over a 100+ weddings a year. Would I switch all of them out for 5D4s... absolutely not. Not a huge reason to do it in my mind. I'll stick with the 5D3's until they die and need replacing or a new 5D comes along. Besides, these days when I shoot weddings it's for my high end clients and the 645Z is what I work with or even MF film.

I'll be putting up processed examples from the 5D4 and 5D3 on my personal site and Flickr when back on Monday.


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## pwp (May 26, 2017)

tomscott said:


> I think the thing is with these cameras is for many they are pro bodies. With pro purpose and are economical decisions and not lusted after rather needed.
> 
> I used mine for 4 years professionally with numerous other bodies as back ups. Before it was stolen and the thing needed a new shutter, most of the rubber grip was warn away the mode dial was a little dodgy. Basically it has been used within an inch of its life and wasnt really worth a great deal. That 4-5 year period between a new body is more than enough time to go through 2-3 shutters so for many its more they need a new camera rather than these features are going to make the absolute difference. The cameras more than make their money back in spades and it makes sense from an economical point of view. A brand new camera with a 2 year warranty or the older cameras with less reliability cost of downtime to repair etc.
> 
> ...



I had a similar experience with the 5D MkIII. It was worn out and on it's fourth shutter when I upgraded to the immediately superior 5D MkIV (for the reasons already solidly discussed in this thread). The changes are not revolutionary, rather a good solid upgrade. 

However, in hindsight, back when I bought the 5D MkIII I likely would have been better off digging a little deeper and getting a 1DX which I did end up getting much later on. While there are no buyers regrets with the 5D MkIV, similarly I may have been better off long term getting a 1DX MkII. 1-Series bodies just last the distance if you're a busy high volume shooter. My current 1DX is on 540k shutter count and going strong. A now sold 1D MkIV was close to 900k when it was retired (and given to an assistant) and still going strong. Same with a very high mileage 1D MkIIn and a 1Ds back in pre-history. 

One feature I value very highly with 5D III/IV is the silent shutter function. Nothing prepared me for how valuable this has become. The ability/option to keep shooting in sensitive situations simply means a better outcome for clients with more deliverable files. 

-pw


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## GMCPhotographics (May 26, 2017)

pwp said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > I think the thing is with these cameras is for many they are pro bodies. With pro purpose and are economical decisions and not lusted after rather needed.
> ...


I find it fascinating how different photographers have such different requirements from their gear. As a wedding photographer, I spread the usage load across three camera bodies. One camera at the beginning of the season is marked for rough work, working close to the ground, near water...etc. So that cam gets the most physical damage. Each of my cams has a 4 year business life and then I replace it at then end of the year. I never upgrade in the middle of a season, I would choose the same model if I had too. For my line of work a 5D3/4 is a perfect union between size, weight, features, IQ, focus and build quality. All of my cams were bought a year apart, so I they get replaced on that same schedule. So I get one year where I don't need to swap out a camera. So when a 5D5 comes out...I have no gear or spec lust, it will eventually come to me based on my cam upgrade cycle.

So I always bare in mind that on a public forum that includes pro, semis and amateurs each with different expectations and gear needs...I am always careful to point out that my needs are very specific and my advise can only really help someone who does the same as me.


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## hne (May 26, 2017)

With the price of a new 5DmkIII at 27000 SEK and 5DmkIV at 30000 SEK, I see no reason anyone would buy a new mkIII other than replacing a broken one in situations where identical handling is crucial.

The original question included the option of a used mkIII and those are roughly half the price (15000SEK) of a new mkIV around here. This becomes a question of how you value the additional features of the mkIV. Having just ordered a mkIV, I can share my thoughts:

DPAF is something that's had me carry an extra body for video. Selling that plus the normal zoom for its crop saves me 2/3 of the price difference, roughly 10000
iTR AF with face detection (also available in the 5DS) makes selecting AF point unnecessary for half-body or wider portraits, a use case covering roughly half of my images. I'm lazy and would happily pay 2000 to get that automated.
Possibility to configure custom function to have a button quickly switch between that and the single point spot focus I used for half the rest of the photos: 1000
2 years factory guarantee is easily worth 2000 at these levels of investment

In the end, the value for money for me is this very close to equal between the two. One happens to cost twice as much. 

Have I saved up for it? Yes.
How long will it last me? Probably 4 years.
What resale value might it have after that time period? Half, give or take.
What's the cost? About $1/day

Not too hard if a decision, except for that unknown value proposition of the 6DmkII...


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## justbeingmiko (Jun 4, 2017)

I have just made the upgrade from the 3 to the 4. On paper it simply wasn't an worthwhile upgrade. Minimal, incremental, call it what you like, the case was not there.

But the I hired one as a second body when I went storm chasing. Big mistake...huge!!

On paper no case....but in physical form...well no competition. I bought one as soon as I returnrd from my trip. 

Why?

The incremental takes an excellent camera (5d3) and turns it into an amazing camera (5d4). The focus is better, faster, more accurate. The exposure metering provides far more consistent results in all types of lighting. But the crowning glory...image quality. The raw files are so clean, so well rendered in colour and tone that they are a pleasure to work with.

The 5d3 files were good but sometimes needed some extra care and attention, to squeeze that desired quality out of them. The 5d4....no effort. Almost perfect.

All of this is opinion, of course. But if anyone is sitting on the fence I cannot recommend trying the 5d4 to see for yourself.

Canon nailed this one, for sure!!


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## hne (Jun 5, 2017)

justbeingmiko said:


> The incremental takes an excellent camera (5d3) and turns it into an amazing camera (5d4). The focus is better, faster, more accurate. The exposure metering provides far more consistent results in all types of lighting. But the crowning glory...image quality. The raw files are so clean, so well rendered in colour and tone that they are a pleasure to work with.
> 
> The 5d3 files were good but sometimes needed some extra care and attention, to squeeze that desired quality out of them. The 5d4....no effort. Almost perfect.



I haven't used the 5DmkIII but I can really do nothing but agree to the above: with my previous four bodies (70D, 5DmkII, 550D, 350D), I've been constantly worried about getting exposure dead-on, used nothing but sunny WB preset on camera outdoors and tungsten preset indoors, flipped AF points like no tomorrow, used my own camera colour profiles for consistent colour and even resorted to hand-held light meter for ambient when in doubt. And still had to tweak colours in post. 5DmkIV on Faithful picture style, auto whitebalance, auto ISO and auto AF point selection with face priority and I get more consistent output just taking the SOOC JPEGs.

So good and consistent it's almost ruining the fun.


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