# Canon EOS R3 to have a 30mp sensor? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 14, 2021)

> The biggest question surrounding the upcoming Canon EOS R3 is what the megapixel count will be for stills shooters.
> Over the weekend two anonymous sources told me that the camera will sport a 30mp sensor. One of the sources did say “around 30mp”.
> Since this comes from unknown places, please treat it as such for now. If I receive confirmation from a known source, I will let you know.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## padam (Jun 14, 2021)

Seems very likely, it is a new generation sensor, so it won't have the MP count of the 1DX III or the much cheaper R6.
I am not sure about the video specs though, would it be able to shoot 6.7K 60p RAW video or limited up to 30p, with 60p in crop mode?

The rumoured C500S is supposedly capable of 8k60p FF video also with a stacked BSI sensor, so maybe it is possible.


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## Bahrd (Jun 14, 2021)

Now I hope the new crop of the mirror tele lenses will indeed appear and match this resolution.


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## renlok (Jun 14, 2021)

any rumors on the price?


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## clkphotog (Jun 14, 2021)

If Canon confirms this, it will be a compelling reason for me to wait and save a little more, vs purchasing the R5 (which was my plan for this year).


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## Chaitanya (Jun 14, 2021)

So good bit higher MP than Sony A9 while keeping path open for higher MP R1 in future.


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## Diltiazem (Jun 14, 2021)

The camera is out in the wild. So, at this stage, the anonymous sources are likely to be correct.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

What is an anonymous source? Someone who just contacted you and told you that number? If he knows the number, why does he just say "around"?

We already know that it probably does not have 8K, because 4K was mentioned. So it has less than the 39.3 megapixels needed for 8K, which is very good news.

If it has 30 megapixels, the question is if it is worth buying know or if it would be better two save another $2000 or so more and wait another year or so with the R1 with a much better 20 mepapixel or so sensor. How much time or money would the upgrade from 30 to 20 megapixels be worth?


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## slclick (Jun 14, 2021)

Canon should make a 1 Series computer keyboard for those who type furiously about how these cameras make no sense because it doesn't fit into their world. Weather sealing (for tears) replaceable keys (for repeated CAPS LOCK pounding). The red ring will be around the eyes after hours on CR pushing and professing their singularly held diatribe against lower MP bodies.


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## jolyonralph (Jun 14, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> So good bit higher MP than Sony A9 while keeping path open for higher MP R1 in future.


the R1 may have a lower MP than the R3, possibly 20-24mpx.

The R5S will be the megapixel monster.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 14, 2021)

30 MP would match up with the no 8k, but that puts it below the Nikon Z9. But then the Z9 is 20 FPS and not the 30 FPS of the R3.


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## bernie_king (Jun 14, 2021)

If this is true it sounds like the perfect action camera. Smaller file sizes, lower pixel density makes it more forgiving when it comes to focus and shutter speeds, better low light performance. Pair that with an R5 for lower speed situations and you have a perfect kit. Can't wait!


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## unfocused (Jun 14, 2021)

Now for the big question. Will it be available before there is actual stock of the 100-500 in stores?


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## DBounce (Jun 14, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


The 30mp sensor seems a bit boring to me. Is this supposed to be an update over the R5? I’m not so sure it is. Can we assume “raw” would have to be a crop, since oversampled 4K would not be “raw”?
This is shaping up to be a pass for me. I’ll wait and see what the R1 brings before making any decisions. I’m in no hurry. My current cameras are pretty awesome.


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## stochasticmotions (Jun 14, 2021)

Seems like a pretty good resolution for a camera that will be capable of 30fps. A reasonable increase over Sony A9, I think this will be a hit for those that like to carry around a brick of a camera. I'm happy with the R5 and the Sony A7RIV at least until I can afford an A1. Either way it will be nice to have options for fast electronic shutters with both Canon and Sony.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What is an anonymous source? Someone who just contacted you and told you that number? If he knows the number, why does he just say "around"?
> 
> We already know that it probably does not have 8K, because 4K was mentioned. So it has less than the 39.3 megapixels needed for 8K, which is very good news.
> 
> If it has 30 megapixels, the question is if it is worth buying know or if it would be better two save another $2000 or so more and wait another year or so with the R1 with a much better 20 mepapixel or so sensor. How much time or money would the upgrade from 30 to 20 megapixels be worth?



Why wait another 1 or 2 years or even more for a camera which we don't know nothing about? 30 megapixels is 50 percent more than 20, quite significant and with all the other updates it will be the best Canon body.


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## sulla (Jun 14, 2021)

30 MP is pretty much perfect


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## AlanF (Jun 14, 2021)

Excellent - I won't have to think about "upgrading" my R5!


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## skp (Jun 14, 2021)

slclick said:


> Canon should make a 1 Series computer keyboard for those who type furiously about how these cameras make no sense because it doesn't fit into their world. Weather sealing (for tears) replaceable keys (for repeated CAPS LOCK pounding). The red ring will be around the eyes after hours on CR pushing and professing their singularly held diatribe against lower MP bodies.


Seriously. I saw this headline and immediately wanted to click into the comments section to watch the rage/drama unfold like a guilty pleasure reality TV show. Things have actually been pretty tame so far. I'll check back on this thread later to see if it gets more entertaining.


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## padam (Jun 14, 2021)

DBounce said:


> The 30mp sensor seems a bit boring to me. Is this supposed to be an update over the R5? I’m not so sure it is. Can we assume “raw” would have to be a crop, since oversampled 4K would not be “raw”?


Canon RAW is always full resolution, full width of the sensor, DCI aspect ratio (5.5K on the 1DX III, 8K on the R5).
So here it should be 6.7K, and it may be capable of doing it at 60p (like the 1DX III) or limited to 30p (like the R5).


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## CanonGrunt (Jun 14, 2021)

I have an R6 and a 5DsR. I think I’ll sell the R6 and get this and keep the 5DsR a while longer. Sell it when the high megapixel R series camera comes out. I have a c70 for video, so those specs aren’t a huge deal to me. Sounds like the R3 will pair well with that one too though. That’s nice. I think this is the one for me.


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## Berowne (Jun 14, 2021)

Having a R6, which is ok for me I dont care so much about the new R3. I cannot understand people who rail against the "low" pixel count of the 1D-Series. I once rented a 1DxII and was taken with the image quality. Clean files and wonderful colours, nothing to complain about. The first image is more than 100% crop, not enough details?


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## frjmacias (Jun 14, 2021)

clkphotog said:


> If Canon confirms this, it will be a compelling reason for me to wait and save a little more, vs purchasing the R5 (which was my plan for this year).


I think it ultimately depends on what you shoot and your work style. I was going to hold off for the R3, but I decided to bite the bullet and bought an R5 yesterday. I realized I mostly do portraiture and landscape work, as well as some video production, so the higher resolution of the R5 and the video options made more sense to me. If you mostly do action sports or wildlife work, the R3 is most definitely fitting for you.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Jun 14, 2021)

DBounce said:


> The 30mp sensor seems a bit boring to me. Is this supposed to be an update over the R5? I’m not so sure it is. Can we assume “raw” would have to be a crop, since oversampled 4K would not be “raw”?
> This is shaping up to be a pass for me. I’ll wait and see what the R1 brings before making any decisions. I’m in no hurry. My current cameras are pretty awesome.


If it comes in at 30mp, it will save me $6,000 as I'll stay with my R5.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 14, 2021)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> If it comes in at 30mp, it will save me $6,000 as I'll stay with my R5.


I do not think it will be $6K if it is 30 MP.
Canon may be able to justify that with 60p RAW but I think they will omit that and keep the price down.


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## FramerMCB (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What is an anonymous source? Someone who just contacted you and told you that number? If he knows the number, why does he just say "around"?
> 
> We already know that it probably does not have 8K, because 4K was mentioned. So it has less than the 39.3 megapixels needed for 8K, which is very good news.
> 
> If it has 30 megapixels, the question is if it is worth buying know or if it would be better two save another $2000 or so more and wait another year or so with the R1 with a much better 20 mepapixel or so sensor. How much time or money would the upgrade from 30 to 20 megapixels be worth?


I don't see Canon making and releasing a 20MP or even 24MP R1 series at this point in time. As the tech upgrades and "know-how" for improved possibilities seem to be pushing their professional model MP higher at least in the mirror-less line-up. My guess is at minimum an R1 will have 30MP and I wouldn't be shocked if it was north of 40MP. But I am also quite positive that whatever resolution the R3 will have will not be an indication of where the R1 will end up. I think Canon, after the R, is slowly learning that they are better off in a shrinking market to introduce more mature products.

I am no expert by any means. But have been pretty good at guessing, for example, price points on their products and I was spot on with my guesses of where the R5 and R6 would be priced. Many were worried the R5 would be well north of $4K USD because of the 8K and some of the other features. I was quite certain that they would not do that. Think about the 5D when it was first introduced and then later, the truly ground-breaking 5D Mk II (introducing video). The 5D series have always been in between the $3-$4K range at release. My guess on the R3 is that won't be more than $5,200USD and probably closer to between $4,699 - $4,899USD. Which would put it ~$1K above the R5. They still need to leave a price range for the R1 - do we think that will be significantly more than the 1DX Mk III? I think even with new ground-breaking tech the R1 can't exceed $7,500 entry price-point. I'm guessing between $6,800 - $7,300.


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## yankiefrankie (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What is an anonymous source? Someone who just contacted you and told you that number? If he knows the number, why does he just say "around"?
> 
> We already know that it probably does not have 8K, because 4K was mentioned. So it has less than the 39.3 megapixels needed for 8K, which is very good news.
> 
> If it has 30 megapixels, the question is if it is worth buying know or if it would be better two save another $2000 or so more and wait another year or so with the R1 with a much better 20 mepapixel or so sensor. How much time or money would the upgrade from 30 to 20 megapixels be worth?


Upgrade from 30mp to 20mp??!! At first, I thought you were joking!
But now that I know you are serious, I have a nice 5mp "SUPER upgrade" that I can sell you if you are interested!


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

I am jealous of the low prices in some countries. Here in germany the R5 is 4,499 Euros in most stores. The cheapest offer at the moment is 4,379 Euros. The cheapest price of the 1D X is 7,114. Only the R6 is quite cheap at the moment with 2,279 Euros because of the Canon Cashback. I am sure that the R3 will cost at least 6,000 Euros in Germany and the R1 mights be close to 9,000 Euros, if the 8,500 dollars are true for the US.

Maybe it would be worth buying those cameras in a low price country. Even with the costs of a flight they might still be cheaper. Customs in Germany could cause problems those.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

yankiefrankie said:


> Upgrade from 30mp to 20mp??!! At first, I thought you were joking!
> But now that I know you are serious, I have a nice 5mp "SUPER upgrade" that I can sell you if you are interested!


The 12 megapixel A7S was the most expensive of the A7 line for example. In times were cellphones have 108 megapixel sensors, a sensor with large pixels is something special. Of course you need a minimum resolution for some purposes. 20 megapixels are the sweet spot for me.


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## yankiefrankie (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> The 12 megapixel A7S was the most expensive of the A7 line for example. In times were cellphones have 108 megapixel sensors, a sensor with large pixels is something special. Of course you need a minimum resolution for some purposes. 20 megapixels are the sweet spot for me.


I know. I was just messing with you.


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## GoldWing (Jun 14, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Why wait another 1 or 2 years or even more for a camera which we don't know nothing about? 30 megapixels is 50 percent more than 20, quite significant and with all the other updates it will be the best Canon body.


30MP from 20MP is insignificant from a resolution perspective. You would need "appoximetly" 60MP.

If the objective is better IQ... This puppy at 30MP is a distraction until the R1


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> 30MP from 20MP is insignificant from a resolution perspective. You would need "appoximetly" 60MP.
> 
> If the objective is better IQ... This puppy at 30MP is a distraction until the R1


I have complete faith that the R1 will be a dramatic disappointment to you. The R1 Mark III will be the perfect camera for you, but it will come 6 years too late. Best switch to Sony now.


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## Billybob (Jun 14, 2021)

stochasticmotions said:


> Seems like a pretty good resolution for a camera that will be capable of 30fps. A reasonable increase over Sony A9, I think this will be a hit for those that like to carry around a brick of a camera. I'm happy with the R5 and the Sony A7RIV at least until I can afford an A1. Either way it will be nice to have options for fast electronic shutters with both Canon and Sony.


I guess it shows how good the A1 is to do 50MP at 30fps. Unlike you, I haven't felt it with the A7RIV. I just can't seem to get the AF settings right, and the RIV doesn't mate well with the 100-600G lens. By contrast, the Nikon Z9 promises to be 40-50MP and 20fps. To be honest, I'm okay with 20fps as long as the resolution is decently high. However, if the Z9 doesn't tick all the other boxes, then I'll either have to hope for a high-resolution stacked-sensor Canon camera (I too am pessimistic that the R1 will be high-resolution), or give the A1 another look.


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## SteveC (Jun 14, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> 30MP from 20MP is insignificant from a resolution perspective. You would need "appoximetly" 60MP.
> 
> If the objective is better IQ... This puppy at 30MP is a distraction until the R1


Why wait?

Start dumping on the R1 now, because most here pretty much expect you will anyway.


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## masterpix (Jun 14, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


The 90D (which is the R3 APS-C "compatible") has a 32.5MP sensor, and it looks like a good number for the R3. Supporting this hypothesis is the simple following calculation: the R5 has 20FPS with 45MP, then having 30FPS in the same "capability" means that the sensor should be "smaller" in the same ratio, giving us a sensor of about 30-32.5MP. In general, for the kind of need for the R3, 32.5MP sensor more than enough, mind all that the 1Dx has only 20MP, which will probably be the same number for the R1.

What more interesting, will the R3 have GPS as well?


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## masterpix (Jun 14, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Excellent - I won't have to think about "upgrading" my R5!


I will wait for the R3 and not get the R5 instead..


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## AEWest (Jun 14, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Why wait?
> 
> Start dumping on the R1 now, because most here pretty much expect you will anyway.


I believe the R1 will have not less than 80 mp and will be able to pixel bin to 20 mp. My opinion is that the R1 will not be a sports oriented camera but a studio camera with global shutter to flash sync at any speed.

Just because the 1DX3 is sports oriented, that doesn't mean the R1 has to be. Canon hasn't had an R3 type camera, so their lineup is shifting. With the R3 as their pro sports/PJ camera, the R1 will be their high resolution pro studio camera.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 14, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R1 will have not less than 80 mp and will be able to pixel bin to 20 mp. My opinion is that the R1 will not be a sports oriented camera but a studio camera with global shutter to flash sync at any speed.
> 
> Just because the 1DX3 is sports oriented, that doesn't mean the R1 has to be. Canon hasn't had an R3 type camera, so their lineup is shifting. With the R3 as their pro sports/PJ camera, the R1 will be their high resolution pro studio camera.


I am 100% sure R1 will be a sports-oriented camera unless there is a separate R1X.
If R3 was a 1DX replacement then it would have 2 CF Express slots.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R1 will have not less than 80 mp


I believe pigs will fly over snowbanks in hell before that happens.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 14, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I believe pigs will fly over snowbanks in hell before that happens.


I find the 80 MP slow and 20 MP fast quad-pixel AF rumor quite plausible.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I am 100% sure R1 will be a sports-oriented camera unless there is a separate R1X.
> If R3 was a 1DX replacement then it would have 2 CF Express slots.


Yes, I do not understand why the R3 has two different cards. For professionals it is quite annoying to have two different cards for redundancy and if one of them is slower, redundant writing to both cards can only go as fast as the slower card can handle it. Imagine you really want to write 30 images per second in RAW+JPEG to both cards. Can the SD card in the R3 do it? Of course it could also write on the faster card first and then copy it to the slower card directly after the shutter is released. But that would be risky if the faster card is already faulty.

Maybe we will even see an R2 released together with the R1 like the R6 that was released with the R5.


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## melgross (Jun 14, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> 30 MP would match up with the no 8k, but that puts it below the Nikon Z9. But then the Z9 is 20 FPS and not the 30 FPS of the R3.


I don’t remember that Nikon told us the rez of the Z9. Did they? (I’m too lazy to look it up right now.)


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I find the 80 MP slow and 20 MP fast quad-pixel AF rumor quite plausible.


Tony Northrup made a video about that idea. He showed that it would cause some problems for the high resolution image, as such a configuartion would need a different Bayer filter. To combine four pixels to one, the Bayer filter of those pixels would need to have the same colour and that would cause problems in certain situations. He talks about that in the R1 rumors video he posted two or three months ago.


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## melgross (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I am jealous of the low prices in some countries. Here in germany the R5 is 4,499 Euros in most stores. The cheapest offer at the moment is 4,379 Euros. The cheapest price of the 1D X is 7,114. Only the R6 is quite cheap at the moment with 2,279 Euros because of the Canon Cashback. I am sure that the R3 will cost at least 6,000 Euros in Germany and the R1 mights be close to 9,000 Euros, if the 8,500 dollars are true for the US.
> 
> Maybe it would be worth buying those cameras in a low price country. Even with the costs of a flight they might still be cheaper. Customs in Germany could cause problems those.


That 20-21% VAT really hurts, doesn’t it?


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## unfocused (Jun 14, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I am 100% sure R1 will be a sports-oriented camera unless there is a separate R1X.
> If R3 was a 1DX replacement then it would have 2 CF Express slots.


I am 100% sure that I have no idea what the R1 will be (if there is an R1 -- as Canon has yet to say anything that would indicate they even plan an R1). 

The specs of the R3 that we know of so far would indicate that the R3 will be a better camera for sports than the 1DxIII in my opinion as a 1DxIII owner and sports shooter. 

The idea that the R1 would be a "studio" camera is kind of silly -- the traditional specs of 1 series cameras offer very little for studio shooters and in fact if you watch any videos from top studio/fashion/wedding photographers, they almost all seem to use 5 series cameras. 

No doubt, if there is an R1 in the cards, it will be the best of the best, but what that entails I have no idea, other than it would have two CF Express slots, which is hardly enough on its own to differentiate it from the R3. 

If I had to guess, I would predict that whatever else the R1 is, its primary target audience will not be professionals, but rather enthusiasts who have wads of money to spend for the right to say they own the best. What Canon might put into such a camera, I have no idea.


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## AlanF (Jun 14, 2021)

masterpix said:


> I will wait for the R3 and not get the R5 instead..


While you wait, I'll be taking photos with one of the two best mirrorless available, the R5.


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## melgross (Jun 14, 2021)

I wrote about the two card situation before, but since it’s been brought up again I’ll mention is again.. there are slots that are dual, in that they will accept either of these two cards. While maybe unlikely, because I’m not sure of the production numbers of these, it’s always possible that Canon could/would use these, to allow different combinations of cards.


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## unfocused (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> ...Imagine you really want to write 30 images per second in RAW+JPEG to both cards. Can the SD card in the R3 do it? ...



In my opinion, people are making too much of this. If your goal is to write to both cards as a backup, the solution is simple. Write to the CF Express card in raw and write to the SD card in JPG. Since the SD card is there as a backup only, the JPGs can be used to salvage the images if for some reason the CFExpress card fails. JPGs aren't ideal, but they aren't as unusable as some people think. If you aren't competent enough to get a good image in Photoshop out of a JPG, that's your problem, not Canon's.


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## Prefocus (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I am jealous of the low prices in some countries. Here in germany the R5 is 4,499 Euros in most stores. The cheapest offer at the moment is 4,379 Euros. The cheapest price of the 1D X is 7,114. Only the R6 is quite cheap at the moment with 2,279 Euros because of the Canon Cashback. I am sure that the R3 will cost at least 6,000 Euros in Germany and the R1 mights be close to 9,000 Euros, if the 8,500 dollars are true for the US.
> 
> Maybe it would be worth buying those cameras in a low price country. Even with the costs of a flight they might still be cheaper. Customs in Germany could cause problems those.


Prices are mostly quoted without tax, especially in the USA where taxes vary by state, while in Germany they are almost always including 19% tax and some dues for certain technologies (30 minute recording limit is there for this reason) Yes, even after deducing the 19% you might often pay more, but the gap is much smaller when you consider US citizens adding their local tax in their head in the supermarket all the time because prices are declared without tax even there.


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## SteveC (Jun 14, 2021)

Prefocus said:


> Prices are mostly quoted without tax, especially in the USA where taxes vary by state, while in Germany they are almost always including 19% tax and some dues for certain technologies (30 minute recording limit is there for this reason) Yes, even after deducing the 19% you might often pay more, but the gap is much smaller when you consider US citizens adding their local tax in their head in the supermarket all the time because prices are declared without tax even there.


In many cases (but by no means all) food is not subject to sales tax (which is the kind of tax you are thinking of). And some states don't have sales tax at all.


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## Ozarker (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What is an anonymous source? Someone who just contacted you and told you that number? If he knows the number, why does he just say "around"?
> 
> We already know that it probably does not have 8K, because 4K was mentioned. So it has less than the 39.3 megapixels needed for 8K, which is very good news.
> 
> If it has 30 megapixels, the question is if it is worth buying know or if it would be better two save another $2000 or so more and wait another year or so with the R1 with a much better 20 mepapixel or so sensor. How much time or money would the upgrade from 30 to 20 megapixels be worth?


You really need to put your outrage and sarcasm in a bottle and toss it in the ocean.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

I remember that in the US you can avoid sales tax, if you show a foreign passport. In Singapore foreigners get the sales tax back at the airport. They just have to scan a code form the receipt and put their credit card into a machine. Then the sales tax refund is added to the credit card account. I have to check the prices in Singapore.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 14, 2021)

melgross said:


> I don’t remember that Nikon told us the rez of the Z9. Did they? (I’m too lazy to look it up right now.)



It shoots 8k so has to be 45-50MP.


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## csibra (Jun 14, 2021)

masterpix said:


> The R5 has 20FPS with 45MP, then having 30FPS in the same "capability" means that the sensor should be "smaller" in the same ratio, giving us a sensor of about 30-32.5MP. In general, for the kind of need for the R3, 32.5MP sensor more than enough, mind all that the 1Dx has only 20MP, which will probably be the same number for the R1.


You doesn't count the stacked sensor. Stacked sensors gives higher read out speed, so it can be higher MP with 30 fps. It depends on picture processing speeds too...


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## AEWest (Jun 14, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> It shoots 8k so has to be 45-50MP.


Probably same sensor as Sony A1.


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## csibra (Jun 14, 2021)

melgross said:


> That 20-21% VAT really hurts, doesn’t it?


Bah! It's 27% in Hungary. But professional shooters can get it back. Only private users needs to pay it.


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## SpaceGhost (Jun 14, 2021)

Right now, my biggest issue would be the mismatched dual card slots. For a pro body, that just seems silly. I can live with 30mp.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 14, 2021)

AEWest said:


> Probably same sensor as Sony A1.



It is suggested to be a new stacked sensor developed in house. They only usually use Sony sensors in the lower end bodies. If it is the Sony sensor then we can except to see some Nikon magic to get it down to ISO 64 and producing better colours, it'll also lay to rest that Sony wont sell their best sensors to competitors.... even when to the sensor devision, Nikon is as big or bigger customer than the Sony camera division.

At the very worst it is a A1 in a pro body with much better glass.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 14, 2021)

SpaceGhost said:


> Right now, my biggest issue would be the mismatched dual card slots. For a pro body, that just seems silly. I can live with 30mp.



It is a bit silly to have it hampered by a SD card slot as backup. It's not like the body doesn't have the space for dual matching cards.


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## AEWest (Jun 14, 2021)

I can't imagine the R1 having a low rez sensor. The Nikon Z9 will have approx 50 mp for the flagship assuming its the same sensor as Sony A1, with a pro body unlike the Sony. I therefore doubt the R1 will be any lower. If it has a lower resolution, what is the value proposition over the R3? Dual CF express card slots? 40 fps?

If we assume that the R3 will sell for $5K, and the R1 will sell for $7K (inline with a 1 series price) what would the extra $2K get me? Global shutter? At that price difference, I would stick with the R3.


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## Kuau (Jun 14, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> 30 MP would match up with the no 8k, but that puts it below the Nikon Z9. But then the Z9 is 20 FPS and not the 30 FPS of the R3.


I would personally rather have a “true”
20FPS with 45mp then 30mp with 30fps
I shoot professional alpine ski racing and having the extra cropping potential is a game changer.
Oh well looks like the R3 is going to be 30mp 
Not sure how Canon can price this with theses specs when compared to the Sony A1


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## Exploreshootshare (Jun 14, 2021)

Prefocus said:


> Yes, even after deducing the 19% you might often pay more


Comparing German prices to prices with Texas VAT, I'd save 1.200 $ on a R5 purchase and almost another 850 $ on a RF 100-500mm. That's insane! Even in Switzerland the prices are way cheaper, I read up on it online. And Canon Germany doesn't really have a tempting cash back program because even if the "EOS plus X" cash back (360 $ off the RF 100-500mm price) you'd still pay nearly 2k$ EXTRA on the already hefty RF price tag... Therefore, the cheaper Sony offerings are very tempting for some people over here... 

I'll go back to the states this summer, but with the new lenses all on backorder, I don't know whether I'll get one or not....


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## Kuau (Jun 14, 2021)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> If it comes in at 30mp, it will save me $6,000 as I'll stay with my R5.


I’m sure the you the only way I would go for the R3 at this point is class leading CAF and excellent battery life. I was so pleasantly surprised with the R5 yet the battery life even with the grip is not so good


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

What would be the cheapest country to buy a camera? Canada, the UK, some Asian country, India? If Corona is over, I would be willing to travel anywhere, if that saves me more money than the flight costs. Of course that is only possible with a global warranty.

I remember that the Sony A9 was quite cheap in the Sony store in Shanghai. It was 32,000 Yuan in 2017. Canon also has a store there, but I am not sure about the prices.


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## john1970 (Jun 14, 2021)

30 MP is reasonable, but there are still so many questions to be answered, such as:

1) Is the continuous AF focusing better than R5 in terms of acquisition speed an ability to lock on to a subject?
2) Is the electronic shutter adjustable at lower frames rates, such as 5, 10, 20 fps?
3) Is the OVF a higher refresh rate?
4) What is the low ISO dynamic range and the high ISO noise characteristics?


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## Exploreshootshare (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> If Corona is over, I would be willing to travel anywhere, if that saves me more money than the flight costs. Of course that is only possible with a global warranty.


That's a great idea! I once thought about it, too. If RF pricing keeps being insane in Germany, I'll actually go through with it and do some research this summer. With the 15-35mm F2.8 I'd save another 500 € (600 $...). Canon Germany is just too greedy in my opinion...


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## [email protected] (Jun 14, 2021)

unfocused said:


> In my opinion, people are making too much of this. If your goal is to write to both cards as a backup, the solution is simple. Write to the CF Express card in raw and write to the SD card in JPG. Since the SD card is there as a backup only, the JPGs can be used to salvage the images if for some reason the CFExpress card fails. JPGs aren't ideal, but they aren't as unusable as some people think. If you aren't competent enough to get a good image in Photoshop out of a JPG, that's your problem, not Canon's.



That's the use case for me when I do pro work (5 - 10 percent of my shots). The reason I really like having the SD card as backup is that I generally don't shoot redundant at all, but rather have the second card as a capacity reserve, with a cheap 1TB card in it. I have it in my head that someday I'll be in a blind for a few hours observing something crazy-rare, like a bear wrestling an octopus or something, and I need to be able to have vast capacity.


----------



## john1970 (Jun 14, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> That's the use case for me when I do pro work (5 - 10 percent of my shots). The reason I really like having the SD card as backup is that I generally don't shoot redundant at all, but rather have the second card as a capacity reserve, with a cheap 1TB card in it. I have it in my head that someday I'll be in a blind for a few hours observing something crazy-rare, like a bear wrestling an octopus or something, and I need to be able to have vast capacity.


A bear wrestling an octopus!!


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## sandhar (Jun 14, 2021)

Berowne said:


> Having a R6, which is ok for me I dont care so much about the new R3. I cannot understand people who rail against the "low" pixel count of the 1D-Series. I once rented a 1DxII and was taken with the image quality. Clean files and wonderful colours, nothing to complain about. The first image is more than 100% crop, not enough details?
> 
> 
> View attachment 198301
> View attachment 198302



nice photo Berowne, how did you manage to get a swirling bokeh effect around the head ? ... it's quite cool


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## ClickIt_AC (Jun 14, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


30 Mpx hits the spot for me. I have the ‘R’ and use a grip but have to trade-off some settings to counter Tremor, however I still usually get my stock accepted, so the same size pics with IBIS, built in grip and latest focus capabilities would suit just fine. It also means the file size allows me to keep my computer at current specs.


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## Hector1970 (Jun 14, 2021)

30 MP is better than 20 MP I suppose. I was hoping for 50MP.
FPS is definately a diminishing return factor. There are few cases where 20FPS is less useful than 30FPS.
I'd prefer a 20 FPS / 50 MP and I'd need no more. I guess it's Canon's job to keep you wanting the next model.
I couldn't care less about 8K or 4K, 8K always seems overkill to me, so few things are capable of showing it and I can't see see much difference.
4K seems more than enough, I was quite satisfied with HD.
It will be interesting its focusing and tracking abilities. 
While the 1DXIII is better than any other camera I have its still far from perfect. 
Good for large objects (sports etc) but not as good for small moving objects.
It's probably a good thing for me in the end as I won't be pre-ordering or rushing to get it. 
I may well end up with it but I can take my time.
It's good sometimes to want something but not own it.


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## clkphotog (Jun 14, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> I think it ultimately depends on what you shoot and your work style. I was going to hold off for the R3, but I decided to bite the bullet and bought an R5 yesterday. I realized I mostly do portraiture and landscape work, as well as some video production, so the higher resolution of the R5 and the video options made more sense to me. If you mostly do action sports or wildlife work, the R3 is most definitely fitting for you.


Realistically, the R6 works for what I do, but I love the smart controller on the 1dxmiii and think I'd like having the option for speed whenever I want it. Plus the battery life on the R6 is nowhere near what I'm used too.... Needed 2 1/2 batteries over two events this last weekend. I also plan on printing my images as art and feel the extra mp's will be beneficial. 

But being very honest, I just want it lol.


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## Mmm Toast (Jun 14, 2021)

This excites me because in 4 years the R6 MKII will recycle this sweet 30mp BSI sensor and be the EOS R MKII in disguise that everyone truly wants.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 14, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> That's a great idea! I once thought about it, too. If RF pricing keeps being insane in Germany, I'll actually go through with it and do some research this summer. With the 15-35mm F2.8 I'd save another 500 € (600 $...). Canon Germany is just too greedy in my opinion...


I bought the Tamron 15-30 f/2.8 with IS and I love that lens. It is very sharp and I wonder if the Canon RF 15-35 f/2.8 is so much better that it justifies 2,499 Euros instead of the 899 or so the Tamron lens costs now. The RF lens prices are just insane and you can only use those lenses on the RF mount. Maybe you would notice some difference on a very high megapixel camera. I would also rather buy the EF 85mm f/1.4 by Canon than the RF 85mm f/1.2, which does not even have an IS, which can be a problem, if you buy a cheaper second R body without IBIS.


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## Cyborx (Jun 14, 2021)

Canon Headquarters: “Hey guys, let’s build a new Pro Mirrorless camera after Somy has gone mirrorless 3 years ago. Let’s make an R5 with 45 megapixels. And then we make a mirrorless body for Pro’s. Yeah! Let’s make that 30 megapixel! Yeah!” Eh... why would you downgrade on megapixels whilst the sensor is already built? Canon, what are you doing?? Saving the 45 megapixel sensor for the R1?
JUST GIVE US A DESCENT KICK A** 45 MEGAPIXEL PRO BODY WITH DUAL HIGH SPEED CARD SLOTS NOW! WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR 3 DAMN YEARS!


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## Exploreshootshare (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I bought the Tamron 15-30 f/2.8 with IS and I love that lens. It is very sharp and I wonder if the Canon RF 15-35 f/2.8 is so much better that it justifies 2,499 Euros instead of the 899 or so the Tamron lens costs now.


At the moment, I don’t have an UWA lense but I’ll be getting one in the near future (spring 2022 at the latest…) I’ll look at the Tamron but I’d also like to get rid of the adapter…so I’m hoping for an affordable RF 14-35mm F4. If I have to keep the adapter I’ll either get the tamron or the EF 16-35mm which I once owned (great lense!)


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## AEWest (Jun 14, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Canon Headquarters: “Hey guys, let’s build a new Pro Mirrorless camera after Somy has gone mirrorless 3 years ago. Let’s make an R5 with 45 megapixels. And then we make a mirrorless body for Pro’s. Yeah! Let’s make that 30 megapixel! Yeah!” Eh... why would you downgrade on megapixels whilst the sensor is already built? Canon, what are you doing?? Saving the 45 megapixel sensor for the R1?
> JUST GIVE US A DESCENT KICK A** 45 MEGAPIXEL PRO BODY WITH DUAL HIGH SPEED CARD SLOTS NOW! WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR 3 DAMN YEARS!


Wow, intense. If the R3 really does have 30mp, we'll need to ensure all highrise office buildings keep all windows locked in case of jumpers!


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## Tom W (Jun 14, 2021)

30 mpx is a pretty good size.


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## neurorx (Jun 14, 2021)

I'd be ok with 30ish MP if the ISO was significantly improved over the R5. I am not sure it would be worth the price jump and would probably wait to see what the R1 offered. If you going to buy something this expensive...go big or go home.


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## AlanF (Jun 14, 2021)

Tom W said:


> 30 mpx is a pretty good size.


Good size for what?


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Jun 14, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Canon Headquarters: “Hey guys, let’s build a new Pro Mirrorless camera after Somy has gone mirrorless 3 years ago. Let’s make an R5 with 45 megapixels. And then we make a mirrorless body for Pro’s. Yeah! Let’s make that 30 megapixel! Yeah!” Eh... why would you downgrade on megapixels whilst the sensor is already built? Canon, what are you doing?? Saving the 45 megapixel sensor for the R1?
> JUST GIVE US A DESCENT KICK A** 45 MEGAPIXEL PRO BODY WITH DUAL HIGH SPEED CARD SLOTS NOW! WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR 3 DAMN YEARS!



Which sensor is already built? This is going to be Canon's first stacked sensor.


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## Exploreshootshare (Jun 14, 2021)

Mmm Toast said:


> This excites me because in 4 years the R6 MKII will recycle this sweet 30mp BSI sensor and be the EOS R MKII in disguise that everyone truly wants


You worded my thoughts perfectly  I love my R despite a few flaws and I’d looooooooooove a Mark II Version that’s exactly that:
- 30mp
- r6 auto focus
- r6 fps
- r6 control dial


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## Exploreshootshare (Jun 14, 2021)

I honestly believe Canon will surprise us when it comes to the pixel count…guessing 40-42Mp…


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## Ozarker (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What would be the cheapest country to buy a camera? Canada, the UK, some Asian country, India? If Corona is over, I would be willing to travel anywhere, if that saves me more money than the flight costs. Of course that is only possible with a global warranty.
> 
> I remember that the Sony A9 was quite cheap in the Sony store in Shanghai. It was 32,000 Yuan in 2017. Canon also has a store there, but I am not sure about the prices.


Corona isn't over. Not by a long shot.


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## slclick (Jun 14, 2021)

yankiefrankie said:


> Upgrade from 30mp to 20mp??!! At first, I thought you were joking!
> But now that I know you are serious, I have a nice 5mp "SUPER upgrade" that I can sell you if you are interested!


I upgraded from 22 to 20. Never happier. 9 years of improvements from the 5D3 based upon the 1DX3 with the R6 shows us that sensor rez is not the solitary spec to base your buying decisions.


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## SHAMwow (Jun 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Yes, I do not understand why the R3 has two different cards. For professionals it is quite annoying to have two different cards for redundancy and if one of them is slower, redundant writing to both cards can only go as fast as the slower card can handle it. Imagine you really want to write 30 images per second in RAW+JPEG to both cards. Can the SD card in the R3 do it? Of course it could also write on the faster card first and then copy it to the slower card directly after the shutter is released. But that would be risky if the faster card is already faulty.
> 
> Maybe we will even see an R2 released together with the R1 like the R6 that was released with the R5.


Okay I see this often and don't get it. I have the R5 and I like that I have the split cards. How would I ever out run the buffer for RAW photos on a UHS II SD card? Has anyone? I shoot redundant with no issues. I guess the only criticism I could see is the inability to record redundant video, but most complaints I see focus on slowing down the RAW image buffer which I don't get. I like being able to invest my money in both formats. If both the R5 slots were CFExpress it would have effectively made it a one card slot camera for me for a good while.


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## navastronia (Jun 14, 2021)

Kuau said:


> I would personally rather have a “true”
> 20FPS with 45mp then 30mp with 30fps
> I shoot professional alpine ski racing and having the extra cropping potential is a game changer.
> Oh well looks like the R3 is going to be 30mp
> Not sure how Canon can price this with theses specs when compared to the Sony A1



Congratulations, you described an R5


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## usern4cr (Jun 14, 2021)

I think 30MP is a good resolution for this type of camera body. I think that a new BSI 30MP sensor will probably have a better image quality than the year-old FSI 45MP R5 sensor. There will be lots of other things improved to make it a much in-demand body. The high price will reflect this, so those that can afford it will be happy and the rest can be happy with the R5 or less expensive options.

I'll wait to see the in-hand reviews before knowing if I would get the R3 as a 2nd body. The feature I really want (more than any others) is a QP sensor, with a massive improvement in all types of AF over the already great (but not perfect) R5.


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## DBounce (Jun 15, 2021)

sulla said:


> 30 MP is pretty much perfect


Then the Canon Eos R is perfect for you :-D


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## David - Sydney (Jun 15, 2021)

melgross said:


> I wrote about the two card situation before, but since it’s been brought up again I’ll mention is again.. there are slots that are dual, in that they will accept either of these two cards. While maybe unlikely, because I’m not sure of the production numbers of these, it’s always possible that Canon could/would use these, to allow different combinations of cards.


Are you talking about the combined CFe type A/SD card slot that the A1 has? Type A cards are prohibitively expensive and hard to get and only made by Sony at this time. Canon and others use Type B cards which are physically larger, been available for longer, faster, and have multiple manufacturers. 

Can you point to an example for a combined SD card/CFe Type B slot?


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## David - Sydney (Jun 15, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What would be the cheapest country to buy a camera? Canada, the UK, some Asian country, India? If Corona is over, I would be willing to travel anywhere, if that saves me more money than the flight costs. Of course that is only possible with a global warranty.
> 
> I remember that the Sony A9 was quite cheap in the Sony store in Shanghai. It was 32,000 Yuan in 2017. Canon also has a store there, but I am not sure about the prices.


Australia has the local 5 year Canon warranty which seems to be unique around the world. You would need to return it locally to receive the service if faulty.
Australia GST is 10% which can be reclaimed at the airport for non-residents returning home. Pricing includes the 10% GST by default.
Sales of 10-20% off recommended retail price from resellers are common. Best at the moment is 
https://www.camerapro.com.au/9584-canon-eos-r5-mirrorless-camera.html
with exchange rate on credit card to be ~1AUD:0.61EUR
Good luck getting in though as we have avoided covid infections with mandatory 2 weeks inbound strict quarantine at individual cost of ~AUD3k.


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## stochasticmotions (Jun 15, 2021)

Billybob said:


> I guess it shows how good the A1 is to do 50MP at 30fps. Unlike you, I haven't felt it with the A7RIV. I just can't seem to get the AF settings right, and the RIV doesn't mate well with the 100-600G lens. By contrast, the Nikon Z9 promises to be 40-50MP and 20fps. To be honest, I'm okay with 20fps as long as the resolution is decently high. However, if the Z9 doesn't tick all the other boxes, then I'll either have to hope for a high-resolution stacked-sensor Canon camera (I too am pessimistic that the R1 will be high-resolution), or give the A1 another look.


Interesting, I've heard others that are also not happy with the A7RIV and the 200-600. Personally that lens is nearly always on the A7RIV and my 100-400 has been sitting in the bag. This is mostly due to the fact that I'm nearly always needing longer than 400mm and still need to crop. This combo is not quite as sharp as the Canon R5 with the 500 f/4 but it is such a versatile range in a reasonably light weight package.


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## Diltiazem (Jun 15, 2021)

It is kinda sad that we don't talk about DR anymore. That's all we used to do even a couple of years ago and it was so much fun. Those were the golden days of CR.


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## deleteme (Jun 15, 2021)

~30MP is just fine. My R and MkIV have 30MP and they deliver superb images. My R5 is even better but not a giant boost.

But then this purely academic because I do not need a 30fps beast in a body that can pound nails under water.


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## deleteme (Jun 15, 2021)

Diltiazem said:


> It is kinda sad that we don't talk about DR anymore. That's all we used to do even a couple of years ago and it was so much fun. Those were the golden days of CR.


I think because the incremental improvements in DR are approaching real limits.
I used to shoot a lot of HDR brackets but now find myself shooting at most three frames and often just one. The files from all my cameras since the MkIV have shown splendid flexibility in the lifting of shadows and the flattening of highlights. I can get results very close to an HDR blend from a single file.

Of course, extreme brightness ranges still demand a bracketed set but then any camera on the market would also need that. Even the sainted 16bit MF sensors.


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## Pixel (Jun 15, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Corona isn't over. Not by a long shot.


[Eye roll]


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## Ozarker (Jun 15, 2021)

Pixel said:


> [Eye roll]


Roll them at Japan, India, etc. Don't smack your head on the floor as it follows your eyes backwards. Nearly 70% of my state's population either refuses to get it or can't find their way to a clinic to get it. When the new, more aggressive, strains make it here... back to square one. I've lost a family member to it. Another family member will be on oxygen for the rest of her life, 5 other members have had it. I have a sister-in-law with cancer. She's in a state with very similar demographics as mine. So don't roll your eyes. Don't joke about it. It isn't over.


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## Skux (Jun 15, 2021)

sulla said:


> 30 MP is pretty much perfect


Yeah I don't see how people are disappointed with this. If the BSI sensor works as advertised then 30mp is quite impressive for an action camera.

I'm sure all those 45mp comes in handy when your image ends up as a 1080x1080 square on Instagram.


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## slclick (Jun 15, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Roll them at Japan, India, etc. Don't smack your head on the floor as it follows your eyes backwards. Nearly 70% of my state's population either refuses to get it or can't find their way to a clinic to get it. When the new, more aggressive, strains make it here... back to square one. I've lost a family member to it. Another family member will be on oxygen for the rest of her life, 5 other members have had it. I have a sister-in-law with cancer. She's in a state with very similar demographics as mine. So don't roll your eyes. Don't joke about it. It isn't over.


I'm sorry for your loss CFB buddy. I too had it hit home in a few manners. I will gladly do the simple and gracious thing to do (mask up) anytime. It's friendly, neighborly and patriotic. Anything less is partisan/sick religious nutcase level.


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## usern4cr (Jun 15, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Roll them at Japan, India, etc. Don't smack your head on the floor as it follows your eyes backwards. Nearly 70% of my state's population either refuses to get it or can't find their way to a clinic to get it. When the new, more aggressive, strains make it here... back to square one. I've lost a family member to it. Another family member will be on oxygen for the rest of her life, 5 other members have had it. I have a sister-in-law with cancer. She's in a state with very similar demographics as mine. So don't roll your eyes. Don't joke about it. It isn't over.


My condolences (sincerely). I hope you have gotten the vaccines. We have them now, after hiding away for a year. While I now feel freed, I try not to talk too much about it as so many others in the world have not had the option to choose that we have had.


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## Aussie shooter (Jun 15, 2021)

DBounce said:


> The 30mp sensor seems a bit boring to me. Is this supposed to be an update over the R5? I’m not so sure it is. Can we assume “raw” would have to be a crop, since oversampled 4K would not be “raw”?
> This is shaping up to be a pass for me. I’ll wait and see what the R1 brings before making any decisions. I’m in no hurry. My current cameras are pretty awesome.


What is it that makes people think this is an 'upgrade' from another camera like the R5? It isn't!!! It is a DIFFERENT camera for DIFFERENT purposes. Megapickles do not the camera make. I just cant understand the mentality that everything has to be some sort of trade in upgrade. if a status symbol is what you want then go get a LIECA or 100mp MF body. If not, then see the various options out there as exactly that. OPTIONS. Not replacements.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 15, 2021)

Diltiazem said:


> It is kinda sad that we don't talk about DR anymore. That's all we used to do even a couple of years ago and it was so much fun. Those were the golden days of CR.


Just think of all those lens cap pictures sitting there wasted.


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## Czardoom (Jun 15, 2021)

Billybob said:


> I guess it shows how good the A1 is to do 50MP at 30fps. Unlike you, I haven't felt it with the A7RIV. I just can't seem to get the AF settings right, and the RIV doesn't mate well with the 100-600G lens. By contrast, the Nikon Z9 promises to be 40-50MP and 20fps. To be honest, I'm okay with 20fps as long as the resolution is decently high. However, if the Z9 doesn't tick all the other boxes, then I'll either have to hope for a high-resolution stacked-sensor Canon camera (I too am pessimistic that the R1 will be high-resolution), or give the A1 another look.


Well, like most Sony specs, the 30 FPS are impressive on paper, but in real life shooting, you need to have the camera set just so, can't use tracking, must have compatable lenses, etc, to get it to work. Sony is smart, though. Almost every review or camera comparison says 30 FPS, which beats all the competition. They don't bother getting into all the requirements or circumstances where you won't get the 30 FPS. Other brands are probably catching on. have a spec that only works in a few situations, but looks great on a chart of specs or a YouTube review.


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## Czardoom (Jun 15, 2021)

Aussie shooter said:


> What is it that makes people think this is an 'upgrade' from another camera like the R5? It isn't!!! It is a DIFFERENT camera for DIFFERENT purposes. Megapickles do not the camera make. I just cant understand the mentality that everything has to be some sort of trade in upgrade. if a status symbol is what you want then go get a LIECA or 100mp MF body. If not, then see the various options out there as exactly that. OPTIONS. Not replacements.


Please, there is no place for such a rational and correct opinion on CR.


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## Mr Majestyk (Jun 15, 2021)

I can live with 30MP if the AF is a clear upgrade form th already excellent R5. Disappointed it isn't a little higher, 36MP would have been excellent, but as long at it's not 20-24MP that'll ok. Just wish they'd do a lens roadmap and tell us when the 500 f/4 and 300 f/2.8 are coming.


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## honeyiscool (Jun 15, 2021)

I actually sold my R5 to buy an R6 because 99% of the time, good 20 megapixels is preferable for me than 45 megapixels and at the burst rate that the R5 has, it was really hard to have shutter discipline, and I didn't need to be burning 5 gigs just to get some cat pictures. Plus, at the time, the R5 could be sold at zero loss because the stock was so low.

I'm amazed that people actually want 45 megapixels. My life is so much easier with 20 megapixels because images process more than twice as fast now, and upload times, upload bandwidth, and disk space needs are reduced by half. And it's still way more than I need. If you have a 6K monitor, you can actually see 20 megapixels, but how many people do I know with 20 megapixels? And I have a very modern computer that is faster than most people's computers.

I do wish that my R6 was 25.2 megapixels, by the way, which is the magical number it would need for the APS-C crop to be a 1:1 4K readout, but anything beyond that is so extra for me right now. I do think 30 megapixels would be a wonderful sweet spot for many, though, because it allows a little bit of cropping while still having way more resolution than necessary, but honestly, be careful what you wish for with numbers greater than 30. I had an M6 Mark II before this, and I always thought that the 32 megapixels just needlessly made the files bigger.


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## GoldWing (Jun 15, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Why wait?
> 
> Start dumping on the R1 now, because most here pretty much expect you will anyway.


I have faith that the R1 will have what I'm seeking for our agency. It will not be a low MP camera and it will allow the user to adjust file size to accomodate a greater range of resolution than any other camera before it, with its focusing and tracking abilities. It will change the industry and the standards of resolution, of sports photography forever. Everyone will want the camera. Everyone!!! People will leave SONY and Nikon in droves. The R1 will be be just as good for BIF, Sports and NYFW. It will be a camera for "photographers"


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## Ozarker (Jun 15, 2021)

slclick said:


> I'm sorry for your loss CFB buddy. I too had it hit home in a few manners. I will gladly do the simple and gracious thing to do (mask up) anytime. It's friendly, neighborly and patriotic. Anything less is partisan/sick religious nutcase level.


Thank you, and you’re right. I still mask up even though I’m fully vaccinated. Why? As an example of protecting others… including my as yet unvaccinated grandson. I don’t want him developing the snotty “I don’t know those people, so they don’t matter” attitude.

Guy came up to me in Walmart just last week and says, “Why are you wearing a mask? Are you too scared for freedom? Are you hoping for socialism?” Lots of those people around here.

I replied, “The dead aren’t free. Why don’t you go out to the parking lot and cut the seatbelts out of your car, drive home and get rid of your home locks, rip out your breakers and wire it all direct. Then start drinking straight out of the White River. Now F-OFF!” It would not have made sense to politely reason with him.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I am jealous of the low prices in some countries. Here in germany the R5 is 4,499 Euros in most stores. The cheapest offer at the moment is 4,379 Euros. The cheapest price of the 1D X is 7,114. Only the R6 is quite cheap at the moment with 2,279 Euros because of the Canon Cashback. I am sure that the R3 will cost at least 6,000 Euros in Germany and the R1 mights be close to 9,000 Euros, if the 8,500 dollars are true for the US.
> 
> Maybe it would be worth buying those cameras in a low price country. Even with the costs of a flight they might still be cheaper. Customs in Germany could cause problems those.



Once sales tax is added, most of us here in the U.S. pay about $4,200-4,300 for the R5 at $3,899 retail.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R1 will have not less than 80 mp and will be able to pixel bin to 20 mp. My opinion is that the R1 will not be a sports oriented camera but a studio camera with global shutter to flash sync at any speed.
> 
> Just because the 1DX3 is sports oriented, that doesn't mean the R1 has to be. Canon hasn't had an R3 type camera, so their lineup is shifting. With the R3 as their pro sports/PJ camera, the R1 will be their high resolution pro studio camera.



I'm not sure about 80 MP, but I do agree with the general principle that the R1 will be more of a 1Ds type of camera than a 1D.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I am 100% sure that I have no idea what the R1 will be (if there is an R1 -- as Canon has yet to say anything that would indicate they even plan an R1).
> 
> The specs of the R3 that we know of so far would indicate that the R3 will be a better camera for sports than the 1DxIII in my opinion as a 1DxIII owner and sports shooter.
> 
> ...



Many of the studio/fashion/wedding photographers that now use 5-Series cameras were using 1Ds models prior to 2012.

With the discontinuation of the 5Ds in 2012 the 5D Mark III became the preferred camera for many who shoot those use cases.

Before the 1D X (2012) there was the 1D (2001), 1D Mark II (2004), 1D Mark IIn (2005), 1D Mark III (2007), and 1D Mark IV (2009) that were lower resolution APS-H sensored cameras that handled fast (relatively speaking for their time) for sports and PJ. There were also the 1Ds (2002), 1Ds Mark III (2004), and 1Ds Mark III (2007) that were higher resolution (again relatively speaking) FF cameras that handled a little slower and were used for studio work, weddings, fashion, etc.

When the 1-Series was combined into the 18 MP 1D X in 2002, the 5D Mark III, also introduced in 2012, became the successor to the 22 MP 1Ds Mark III. The 5Ds and 5DsR in 2015 raised the bar to 50MP and the 5D Mark IV in 2016 gave a middle ground of 30 MP and handling speed between the 1D X Mark II (2016) and the 5Ds/5Ds R.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> If I had to guess, I would predict that whatever else the R1 is, its primary target audience will not be professionals, but rather enthusiasts who have wads of money to spend for the right to say they own the best. What Canon might put into such a camera, I have no idea.



It seems to me that Canon's entire product line is moving in that direction as the number of professional photographers (_i.e._ those who do it full-time as their primary source of income) continues to dwindle. 

The only question for the different product lines is 1) How much are you willing to spend and 2) What do you like to shoot (regardless of whether that use case has the potential to generate revenue for anyone).


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> In my opinion, people are making too much of this. If your goal is to write to both cards as a backup, the solution is simple. Write to the CF Express card in raw and write to the SD card in JPG. Since the SD card is there as a backup only, the JPGs can be used to salvage the images if for some reason the CFExpress card fails. JPGs aren't ideal, but they aren't as unusable as some people think. If you aren't competent enough to get a good image in Photoshop out of a JPG, that's your problem, not Canon's.



The main problem with that is that in every previous Canon model with two different types of cards (almost all of the two-card cameras), if the slower card is being written to, the faster card bus also slows down to the same write speed as the slower card bus. So even if one is only writing smaller JPEG files to the SD card, the CF card (in previous models) would also slow down the speed with which it was writing the larger raw files to the CF card.


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## Prefocus (Jun 15, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Comparing German prices to prices with Texas VAT, I'd save 1.200 $ on a R5 purchase and almost another 850 $ on a RF 100-500mm. That's insane! Even in Switzerland the prices are way cheaper, I read up on it online. And Canon Germany doesn't really have a tempting cash back program because even if the "EOS plus X" cash back (360 $ off the RF 100-500mm price) you'd still pay nearly 2k$ EXTRA on the already hefty RF price tag... Therefore, the cheaper Sony offerings are very tempting for some people over here...
> 
> I'll go back to the states this summer, but with the new lenses all on backorder, I don't know whether I'll get one or not....


Edit: posted before my first coffee :/ (always reread the post you are answering :/ )

Just had a look and excluding tax there is a US$345 price gap in the Canon stores for the 100-500 as you said. Don’t get me wrong, I still think a 10% price gap is ridiculous. Do not know where it comes from, though. Import tax or just Canon ripping of the Germans/(Europeans?)


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

SteveC said:


> In many cases (but by no means all) food is not subject to sales tax (which is the kind of tax you are thinking of). And some states don't have sales tax at all.



A few states do not charge the same sales tax rate on food as they do on most other retail goods, and even fewer charge no sales tax on food. But that is the exception rather than the rule. The majority of states charge full sales tax for food. Even in most states that do have the different schedules for "food", the grocery stores have to classify whether a product is a "prepared" item (i.e. a frozen dinner or a box of cookies) that is charged full sales tax or a "raw ingredient" item (i.e. eggs or flour) that is charged reduced or no sales tax.

Update: I checked and more states now have reduced/no sales tax on unprepared food than the last time I looked.

States who charge full sales tax on all grocery items: Alabama, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, and South Dakota.

States who charge reduced sales tax on grocery products considered "ingredients". Prepared foods are still taxed at the normal rate: Arkansas, Georgia, Maine, Missouri, Illinois, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Utah.

States that exempt groceries from all sales tax. Foods considered "prepared" are usually still taxed: Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, DC, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Ohio, Maryland, Mass., Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

States with no sales tax on anything: Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon. (These four states combined include roughly 2.3% of the U.S. population.)


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

SHAMwow said:


> Okay I see this often and don't get it. I have the R5 and I like that I have the split cards. How would I ever out run the buffer for RAW photos on a UHS II SD card? Has anyone? I shoot redundant with no issues. I guess the only criticism I could see is the inability to record redundant video, but most complaints I see focus on slowing down the RAW image buffer which I don't get. I like being able to invest my money in both formats. If both the R5 slots were CFExpress it would have effectively made it a one card slot camera for me for a good while.



How many frames do you usually shoot in a continuous burst at maximum frame rate?


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## maulanawale (Jun 15, 2021)

stochasticmotions said:


> Interesting, I've heard others that are also not happy with the A7RIV and the 200-600. Personally that lens is nearly always on the A7RIV and my 100-400 has been sitting in the bag. This is mostly due to the fact that I'm nearly always needing longer than 400mm and still need to crop. This combo is not quite as sharp as the Canon R5 with the 500 f/4 but it is such a versatile range in a reasonably light weight package.


Yep, I'm one of those that never got along well with the A7RIV + 200-600 combo, granted it could have been a biological interface error, but I always had the feeling that the camera is extremely sensitive to the slightest shake and its IBIS is very poor. Had much better results with the A7III and even better results with the Oly EM1X when shooting handheld. Goes to show that we all value different specs differently I guess, to me, a top of the line IBIS seems to be the deal breaker well over resolution.

Regarding the R3, 30MPX hits the spot for me (as if it matters what I think ). As someone has mentioned, will allow me to keep the rest of my workflow untouched without the need for a new laptop and without messing up my HD/backup lifecycle too much.

I'm honestly happy to see how varied opinions are here, with some of us all in for the R3 and others clamouring for higher res, it's proof that the market still has places to go and is not as stuck as it seemed to be. Of course I feel the pain of those disappointed, but it's just a matter of waiting and is not like there isn't an R5 option. 
I also think it is a smart move from Canon. It is way easier to convince someone like me, that's happy with 30MPX, to bite the bullet and get a 60,70,80 mpx body than the other way around. This way they ensure they maintain market segmentation and probably even have some individuals (pros and deep pocketed enthusiast) buy the lower res and higher res models.


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## symmar22 (Jun 15, 2021)

melgross said:


> That 20-21% VAT really hurts, doesn’t it?


Yes, but when it hurts too much we are taken care of for free by an excellent health system.....


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## koenkooi (Jun 15, 2021)

Prefocus said:


> Edit: posted before my first coffee :/ (always reread the post you are answering :/ )
> 
> Just had a look and excluding tax there is a US$345 price gap in the Canon stores for the 100-500 as you said. Don’t get me wrong, I still think a 10% price gap is ridiculous. Do not know where it comes from, though. Import tax or just Canon ripping of the Germans/(Europeans?)


I think the Canon subsidiaries will charge what the market can bear. With the EU pushing hard for a "single market" there's almost no difference in ordering a camera locally or from a Spanish or Greek store and have it shipped. AlanF pointed out that post-Brexit the prices for Canon gear soared in the UK, while the Sony and Nikon prices didn't.

At the end of 2019 there was some kind of instant rebate deal for the RF50L in the US, which would've meant that walking out of the office x-mas party into the Best Buy down the road would save me more than €700 compared to buying locally in the Netherlands. That included CA sales tax.

I should've done that, because I haven't been to that office since. Then again, I wouldn't have been able to afford the 100-500, which I have used daily the past week.


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## quilatoo (Jun 15, 2021)

Hell the other month Canon increased the RRP of the R5 by £100!


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## Joules (Jun 15, 2021)

Normalnorm said:


> I think because the incremental improvements in DR are approaching real limits.


And here I was thinking we don't talk about DR anymore because Canon isn't behind Sony anymore! But that can't be, the Sony crowd would never steer the discussion on this forum...


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> 30 MP would match up with the no 8k, but that puts it below the Nikon Z9. But then the Z9 is 20 FPS and not the 30 FPS of the R3.


The R3 seems definitely to be designed for speed and action, and for that 30 MP is a sweet spot with current tech.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

Prefocus said:


> Edit: posted before my first coffee :/ (always reread the post you are answering :/ )
> 
> Just had a look and excluding tax there is a US$345 price gap in the Canon stores for the 100-500 as you said. Don’t get me wrong, I still think a 10% price gap is ridiculous. Do not know where it comes from, though. Import tax or just Canon ripping of the Germans/(Europeans?)



The more extensive warranty required by German law might have something to do with it. 

In the U.S. we get a One Year warranty and then it's KMAG YOYO. 

If we want a longer warranty it costs an extra $337 + tax for four year coverage (including the first year already included in the purchase price) on cameras priced between $3,000 and $3,999.99. Two year coverage (one additional year) is $170 + tax.

For the RF 100-500mm selling at $2,700 + tax, the extended four year coverage is an additional $216 + tax. Two year coverage (one additional year) is $95 + tax.

Providing extended warranty coverage with the price of the purchase has real cost to Canon Europe.


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 15, 2021)

renlok said:


> any rumors on the price?


Okay, let's open up again the betting shop: I guess it'll settle somewhere in the US-$ 4499 - 5499 range. The 1D-X III is currently offered for US-$ 6499 on B&H.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

symmar22 said:


> Yes, but when it hurts too much we are taken care of for free by an excellent health system.....



Ouch!


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Okay, let's open up again the betting shop: I guess it'll settle somewhere in the US-$ 4499 - 5499 range. The 1D-X III is currently offered for US-$ 6499 on B&H.



Wow, thanks for really narrowing that down for us!

It's going to be at least $1,000 more than the R5 ( and probably closer to $1,500 more) and at least $1,500 less than the R1 (and probably $2,000 less).

So that puts the R3 at $5,399 and the R1 at $6,899, but Canon will round those up to $5,499 and $6,999, respectively.

Of course market conditions can change a lot by the time the R1 arrives in a couple of years.


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## Chig (Jun 15, 2021)

melgross said:


> That 20-21% VAT really hurts, doesn’t it?


Here in New Zealand an R5 is NZD 6,800 which is about USD 4,900 and we have a 15% sales tax but at least we get a full 5 year warranty which is better than the 2 years in Europe or the 1 year limited warranty in the USA


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## WJF (Jun 15, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Okay, let's open up again the betting shop: I guess it'll settle somewhere in the US-$ 4499 - 5499 range. The 1D-X III is currently offered for US-$ 6499 on B&H.


My guess - $5899


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## Chig (Jun 15, 2021)

Kuau said:


> I would personally rather have a “true”
> 20FPS with 45mp then 30mp with 30fps
> I shoot professional alpine ski racing and having the extra cropping potential is a game changer.
> Oh well looks like the R3 is going to be 30mp
> Not sure how Canon can price this with theses specs when compared to the Sony A1


From what I see in reviews the Alpha 1 can't actually focus at 30fps on a fast moving subject so the 30fps is just marketing fluff and unusable unless you want to shoot 30fps of a static subject !
A crop sensor 30mp R7 would give you more pixel density if it ever comes out


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## Chig (Jun 15, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Corona isn't over. Not by a long shot.


Canon doesn't do global warranties sadly but you can buy grey market and cross your fingers


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## Ozarker (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> Canon doesn't do global warranties sadly but you can buy grey market and cross your fingers


Wrong guy.


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> Here in New Zealand an R5 is NZD 6,800 which is about USD 4,900 and we have a 15% sales tax but at least we get a full 5 year warranty which is better than the 2 years in Europe or the 1 year limited warranty in the USA


So how much is extended warranty actually "worth"? In general, I have entered the realm of decliners after years of no benefit... maybe I'm just lucky... or a gambler.

Jack


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> Canon doesn't do global warranties sadly but you can buy grey market and cross your fingers



Sometimes Canon USA will go ahead and cover repairs under warranty even if the item was bought grey market. But it's not guaranteed.


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## edoorn (Jun 15, 2021)

honeyiscool said:


> I actually sold my R5 to buy an R6 because 99% of the time, good 20 megapixels is preferable for me than 45 megapixels and at the burst rate that the R5 has, it was really hard to have shutter discipline, and I didn't need to be burning 5 gigs just to get some cat pictures. Plus, at the time, the R5 could be sold at zero loss because the stock was so low.
> 
> I'm amazed that people actually want 45 megapixels. My life is so much easier with 20 megapixels because images process more than twice as fast now, and upload times, upload bandwidth, and disk space needs are reduced by half. And it's still way more than I need. If you have a 6K monitor, you can actually see 20 megapixels, but how many people do I know with 20 megapixels? And I have a very modern computer that is faster than most people's computers.
> 
> I do wish that my R6 was 25.2 megapixels, by the way, which is the magical number it would need for the APS-C crop to be a 1:1 4K readout, but anything beyond that is so extra for me right now. I do think 30 megapixels would be a wonderful sweet spot for many, though, because it allows a little bit of cropping while still having way more resolution than necessary, but honestly, be careful what you wish for with numbers greater than 30. I had an M6 Mark II before this, and I always thought that the 32 megapixels just needlessly made the files bigger.



Well, the R6 shoots with the same fps rates so I don't get the shutter discipline bit. Also, the c-raw option makes handling R5 files very easy; they are about the same size as 5D mk IV files. My 4 year old iMac can handle these files without any problem, and hard drive space is cheap as heck. So for those reasons these are non-arguments if you ask me.

Of course, if you don't need the res, then save the money and get the R6! I'm quite happy with the cropping flexibility of 45 mpix files, but it's because I shoot commercial portraits where sometimes it's very nice to get a close headshop crop out of a wider shot portrait for example. And wildlife, too.

That said, I am contemplating adding an R3 next to my R5's. In particular for superior AF, and if high iso perfomance is improved over R6/R5 (when you normalise the files of the R5 to R6 size, you get more or less the same). I think the resolution of the 5D IV (also 30mpix) was always fine.


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## Chig (Jun 15, 2021)

Jack Douglas said:


> So how much is extended warranty actually "worth"? In general, I have entered the realm of decliners after years of no benefit... maybe I'm just lucky... or a gambler.
> 
> Jack


The warranty is standard here but the gear is priced higher , also in New Zealand all consumer products must last a reasonable time by law so warranties are a bit irrelevant here as the retailer must replace or repair the product anyway if it doesn't last a reasonable time


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## Ozarker (Jun 15, 2021)

edoorn said:


> I'm quite happy with the cropping flexibility of 45 mpix files, but it's because I shoot commercial portraits where sometimes it's very nice to get a close headshop crop out of a wider shot portrait for example. And wildlife, too.


Thank you.  I was beginning to think I am one of the only people who does this. I have been very happy just stepping up from the 5D Mark III to the R for this reason, and the AF.


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## dtaylor (Jun 15, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I believe pigs will fly over snowbanks in hell before that happens.


It looks like Canon may be repositioning their line though. Is the R3 the true replacement to the 1DX series? If so, will the R1 be the true replacement to the 5Ds/sR?


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## Ozarker (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> The warranty is standard here but the gear is priced higher , also in New Zealand all consumer products must last a reasonable time by law so warranties are a bit irrelevant here as the retailer must replace or repair the product anyway if it doesn't last a reasonable time


Is there a list of how long things should last to be considered reasonable? I'd imagine that, and the warranty, are part of what has the prices higher.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> The warranty is standard here but the gear is priced higher , also in New Zealand all consumer products must last a reasonable time by law so warranties are a bit irrelevant here as the retailer must replace or repair the product anyway if it doesn't last a reasonable time



Those laws raise the cost to Canon of selling the same product in NZ compared to places with less stringent warranties. Someone has to pay it.


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## dtaylor (Jun 15, 2021)

Diltiazem said:


> It is kinda sad that we don't talk about DR anymore. That's all we used to do even a couple of years ago and it was so much fun. Those were the golden days of CR.


Don't make me start posting shadow lifted 7D RAWs


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## Michael Clark (Jun 15, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> It looks like Canon may be repositioning their line though. Is the R3 the true replacement to the 1DX series? If so, will the R1 be the true replacement to the 5Ds/sR?



Or the reappearance of the 1Ds?

Many 1Ds users shifted from the 1-Series to the 5-Series when the higher megapixel/FF/slower handling 1Ds series was merged into the lower megapixel/APS-H/faster handling 1D series with the introduction of the 1D X in 2012.


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## Chig (Jun 15, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Is there a list of how long things should last to be considered reasonable? I'd imagine that, and the warranty, are part of what has the prices higher.


It's what the consumer considers to be a reasonable time , e.g a washing machine that dies after only 3 or 4 years is likely to be replaced but if it lasts say 10 years is unlikely to be replaced so it's a bit of a grey area .
The tiny size of our country means a lot of things are overpriced anyway.
Commercial / professional products aren't covered by the law though
Here's a link if you're interested : https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/consumer-laws/consumer-guarantees-act


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## dtaylor (Jun 15, 2021)

honeyiscool said:


> I'm amazed that people actually want 45 megapixels. My life is so much easier with 20 megapixels because images process more than twice as fast now, and upload times, upload bandwidth, and disk space needs are reduced by half. And it's still way more than I need. If you have a 6K monitor, you can actually see 20 megapixels, but how many people do I know with 20 megapixels? And I have a very modern computer that is faster than most people's computers.


The R6 sensor is very good. And 20mp is enough for most common subject/print size combos. Never the less, having gone 'high rez' with the 5Ds...I wouldn't want to go back. I simply love the IQ even if I don't always need it. And when you can take advantage of it with a large print, it's stunning. And very immersive.

Not to mention the cropping. I was one of the people who kind of dismissed this as a plus until I actually had 50mp in hand. I love the freedom to crop as needed and still have detail saturation in print. And yes, sometimes you process a frame and realize there's another great shot in that frame when you can crop to MFT size or further and still have as many MP as we used to have in the 2000s.


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## masterpix (Jun 15, 2021)

csibra said:


> You doesn't count the stacked sensor. Stacked sensors gives higher read out speed, so it can be higher MP with 30 fps. It depends on picture processing speeds too...


I war relaying on the processing speed in this hypothesis. I wish it to be 40-50MP, but if so, Canon shoot down the R5, so there is no reason, commercially, for that.


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## Chig (Jun 15, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What would be the cheapest country to buy a camera? Canada, the UK, some Asian country, India? If Corona is over, I would be willing to travel anywhere, if that saves me more money than the flight costs. Of course that is only possible with a global warranty.
> 
> I remember that the Sony A9 was quite cheap in the Sony store in Shanghai. It was 32,000 Yuan in 2017. Canon also has a store there, but I am not sure about the prices.


No global warranties by Canon sadly , just buy a Grey import and cross your fingers !


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> No global warranties by Canon sadly , just buy a Grey import and cross your fingers !


That would be risky. My 1D Mark II was broken after less than 9,000 shots. I think the shutter did not work anymore. The damage was so bad that they sent me a new camera.


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## AlanF (Jun 15, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> The R6 sensor is very good. And 20mp is enough for most common subject/print size combos. Never the less, having gone 'high rez' with the 5Ds...I wouldn't want to go back. I simply love the IQ even if I don't always need it. And when you can take advantage of it with a large print, it's stunning. And very immersive.
> 
> Not to mention the cropping. I was one of the people who kind of dismissed this as a plus until I actually had 50mp in hand. I love the freedom to crop as needed and still have detail saturation in print. And yes, sometimes you process a frame and realize there's another great shot in that frame when you can crop to MFT size or further and still have as many MP as we used to have in the 2000s.


Yes, once you have got to use high resolution, you appreciate it. As a dyed-in-the-wool OVF fan who uses the camera and telephoto as a spotting scope, I have to say the same about EVFs - their pros outweigh their cons for me.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> From what I see in reviews the Alpha 1 can't actually focus at 30fps on a fast moving subject so the 30fps is just marketing fluff and unusable unless you want to shoot 30fps of a static subject !
> A crop sensor 30mp R7 would give you more pixel density if it ever comes out


The highest frame rates on all camera's even the Canon 1-series and single digit Nikon's has always had a list of conditions as long as my arm. Everything from minimal shutter speeds, card used, battery power level, AF point selected, the lens must be wide open, no third party lenses(a biggie with the A1), ... the alignment of the moon, mirror lock up.


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## AlanF (Jun 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> The highest frame rates on all camera's even the Canon 1-series and single digit Nikon's has always had a list of conditions as long as my arm. Everything from minimal shutter speeds, card used, battery power level, AF point selected, the lens must be wide open, no third party lenses(a biggie with the A1), ... the alignment of the moon, mirror lock up.


I posted yesterday a burst of 21 shots of a dragonfly in flight using ES on the R5 + 100-500 and according to the EXIF data 20 of those were in one second (frames 2-21 all dated 13 June 2021 at 12:53:33, frame 1 12:53:32) so I don't think Canon is lying.





__





Dragonflies and Damselflies


Here's a 1 second burst from the R5+100-500mm of an Emperor Dragonfly flying (21 frames).




www.canonrumors.com


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## Diltiazem (Jun 15, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> Don't make me start posting shadow lifted 7D RAWs


Pictures with the lens cap on would be nice. Thank you.


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## Sporgon (Jun 15, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Or the reappearance of the 1Ds?
> 
> Many 1Ds users shifted from the 1-Series to the 5-Series when the higher megapixel/FF/slower handling 1Ds series was merged into the lower megapixel/APS-H/faster handling 1D series with the introduction of the 1D X in 2012.


I think here in the UK at least the move to the 5 series from the one series started with the very expensive 1DsIII and the introduction of the 5DII. Despite the 5DII’s inferior AF and built quality to the 1D series (maybe) done to try and keep serious pros on the latter, people flocked to the 5DII and according to retail sources the 1DsIII didn’t sell is as many numbers as previous 1 series, at least here in the UK. Canon seem to have accepted this and significantly upgraded the 5DIII to genuine ‘pro’ standards, and let the 1DX become the fast ‘n furious machine. Looking at the R5 it doesn’t look to me as if they’ve changed course.


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## lethiferous (Jun 15, 2021)

If it is in the low 30 that's fine. But if it is priced anywhere near 6000, that would be a no. #1 That's too close to A1 area (I paid less than 6 for my a1, sony bodies eat a discount very soon and often) #2 even for canon only folks that's too much over the R5 for essentially less battery life vs a griped R5 and , less mp. I think even the most demanding sport/wildlife/event can live with 20 vs 30.


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## bernie_king (Jun 15, 2021)

lethiferous said:


> If it is in the low 30 that's fine. But if it is priced anywhere near 6000, that would be a no. #1 That's too close to A1 area (I paid less than 6 for my a1, sony bodies eat a discount very soon and often) #2 even for canon only folks that's too much over the R5 for essentially less battery life vs a griped R5 and , less mp. I think even the most demanding sport/wildlife/event can live with 20 vs 30.


I think it's funny how people get hung up on MP. More MP does not make a camera superior. It's nice in some situations to have super-high resolution but as a demanding Wildlife photographer I have to say that sometimes 45 is too much. Pixel density can become a problem with fast moving subjects. If I'm in Alaska shooting a fishing bear or a perched Eagle then yes, 45mp is great. If I'm trying to shoot something that moves fast I have to bump my shutter speeds (and ISO) way higher than I ever did on my 1 Series cameras to get a sharp photo. 

I'm excited for the R3 at 30(some) megapixels. I won't have to fight with pixel density and the LP-19 battery is going to drive my 600f4 II faster getting me better target acquisition. This has always been a problem with LP-6 based cameras from the 7D on. Battery life will also be better than a gripped R5 from my experience with those batteries. So for $6000 you're going to be getting much better tech that is designed for fast action. Maybe less resolution, but with better tracking and acquisition, probably better EVF, faster readout speeds, a truly sealed body, etc.. . Remember that the 1DX only had 18mp (and the 1DX II/III only 20) and cost more than this camera and you certainly didn't see it replaced on sidelines with 5DIVs. As far as the A1, from what I'm reading you can get 30fps at 51mp, but only in very limited conditions. 

I'll be keeping my gripped R5 for slow stuff, but the R3 will likely become my action camera.


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## Sporgon (Jun 15, 2021)

bernie_king said:


> I think it's funny how people get hung up on MP. More MP does not make a camera superior. It's nice in some situations to have super-high resolution but as a demanding Wildlife photographer I have to say that sometimes 45 is too much. Pixel density can become a problem with fast moving subjects. If I'm in Alaska shooting a fishing bear or a perched Eagle then yes, 45mp is great. If I'm trying to shoot something that moves fast I have to bump my shutter speeds (and ISO) way higher than I ever did on my 1 Series cameras to get a sharp photo.


Comments like those you’ve made about ‘higher mp needing faster speeds to stop movement’ are normally greeted with the equivalence argument. 
However I have to say I’ve found the same thing with the 5DS - even when I do reduce the output size to 20mp……..


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## bernie_king (Jun 15, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> Comments like those you’ve made about ‘higher mp needing faster speeds to stop movement’ are normally greeted with the equivalence argument.
> However I have to say I’ve found the same thing with the 5DS - even when I do reduce the output size to 20mp……..


Yeah, I know. There will always be someone telling me to down sample the image, but I'd much rather just shoot. I really struggled with the R5 until I found that the reason I wasn't getting sharp action shots was Pixel smearing and that I almost had to double my shutter speeds (and ISO as a result) to compensate for smear between pixels.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> I posted yesterday a burst of 21 shots of a dragonfly in flight using ES on the R5 + 100-500 and according to the EXIF data 20 of those were in one second (frames 2-21 all dated 13 June 2021 at 12:53:33, frame 1 12:53:32) so I don't think Canon is lying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No one said Canon was lying. But try 21 shots on half battery or with the SD card or any of the other things that slow it down. Like on the 1DX, it is 14 FPS on paper, 12 FPS with AE/AF and the lens at 1/1000. This isn't a Canon thing, all manufacturers can only do their max FPS if enough conditions are met. The Sony A1 is reportedly getting to 15 FPS on third party lenses and only the full 30 on the latest Sony lenses.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Tony Northrup made a video about that idea. He showed that it would cause some problems for the high resolution image, as such a configuartion would need a different Bayer filter. To combine four pixels to one, the Bayer filter of those pixels would need to have the same colour and that would cause problems in certain situations. He talks about that in the R1 rumors video he posted two or three months ago.


I really do trust Tony when it comes to photography tips.
Even though he comes from a professional tech background I do not trust what he says at all.
I find camera sensors very interesting and very few people explain them very well.
"Those who know don't tell. Those who tell don't know" -Michael Lewis


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Kuau said:


> I’m sure the you the only way I would go for the R3 at this point is class leading CAF and excellent battery life. I was so pleasantly surprised with the R5 yet the battery life even with the grip is not so good


I do not mind the battery life with the grip, but I do find it to be a major hassle.
I plan on getting a C70 regardless, but an R5c with a BP battery would be very tempting.


----------



## Kit Chan (Jun 15, 2021)

The R1 is going to have a 200MP sensor with 60fps electronic shutter, 16k 120fps RAW video with global shutter, 20 stops image stabilization, octa-pixel autofocus, completely water proof up to 200 meters and it will fit in your pocket.

And it's not going to be called the R1, it will be called the R you satisfied?


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Which sensor is already built? This is going to be Canon's first stacked sensor.


Being that this camera is in the wild, I imagine there is a sensor inside of it.
However, it is possible that Canon has not released the MP count because the body is being tested with different sensors.


----------



## lethiferous (Jun 15, 2021)

bernie_king said:


> I think it's funny how people get hung up on MP. More MP does not make a camera superior. It's nice in some situations to have super-high resolution but as a demanding Wildlife photographer I have to say that sometimes 45 is too much. Pixel density can become a problem with fast moving subjects. If I'm in Alaska shooting a fishing bear or a perched Eagle then yes, 45mp is great. If I'm trying to shoot something that moves fast I have to bump my shutter speeds (and ISO) way higher than I ever did on my 1 Series cameras to get a sharp photo.
> 
> I'm excited for the R3 at 30(some) megapixels. I won't have to fight with pixel density and the LP-19 battery is going to drive my 600f4 II faster getting me better target acquisition. This has always been a problem with LP-6 based cameras from the 7D on. Battery life will also be better than a gripped R5 from my experience with those batteries. So for $6000 you're going to be getting much better tech that is designed for fast action. Maybe less resolution, but with better tracking and acquisition, probably better EVF, faster readout speeds, a truly sealed body, etc.. . Remember that the 1DX only had 18mp (and the 1DX II/III only 20) and cost more than this camera and you certainly didn't see it replaced on sidelines with 5DIVs. As far as the A1, from what I'm reading you can get 30fps at 51mp, but only in very limited conditions.
> 
> I'll be keeping my gripped R5 for slow stuff, but the R3 will likely become my action camera.



I am hobbyist who spent way too much on gear to play with. I don't see myself in the long run owning this many bodies and 3 systems of glass. I would rather have 1 body that can do everything I wanted. Cropping helps me a lot for some of the other stuff I do outside of wildlife. I will buy the R3 and play around with it, that I already know, but I think the price point if it was 6k is too much. That would make the R1 flagship into 8k territory. I get that the 1dx miii was 20 mp and cost more as a flagship. We will all see soon enough what Canon has, but I am just hoping its not the 6k price tag as it is rumored to be. As for the A1 the biggest limitation to the 30 fps is probably the requirement is Sony branded glass (which some need serious refreshes) ., the compressed raw etc all that doesn't bother me much. For someone with no real brand loyalty, you can see that I am weighing results( or specs) vs price points. I would not choose body with less functionality for a similar to price point to a more functional body. The a1 really is a great body (grip is needed for sure) but Sony's glass doesn't compete imo. If I could slap my RF glass onto a sony body that would be great lol.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Aussie shooter said:


> What is it that makes people think this is an 'upgrade' from another camera like the R5? It isn't!!! It is a DIFFERENT camera for DIFFERENT purposes. Megapickles do not the camera make. I just cant understand the mentality that everything has to be some sort of trade in upgrade. if a status symbol is what you want then go get a LIECA or 100mp MF body. If not, then see the various options out there as exactly that. OPTIONS. Not replacements.


Yep, people complained that the R6 had fewer MP than the R.
It is not really an upgrade to the RP either since the bodies are so different but I can see how people could make that argument.


----------



## snapshot (Jun 15, 2021)

There might be more than just the final photo, higher res might be a significant aid to AF. My 45 MPix R5 can find and track a person's eyes at 100 ft with a 250mm lens. I assume a 30 MPix camera with samish tech would need a 300mm lens to track the same eyes? 20 Mpix would need 370? Anyone know how R6/R5 AF compares?


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Joules said:


> And here I was thinking we don't talk about DR anymore because Canon isn't behind Sony anymore! But that can't be, the Sony crowd would never steer the discussion on this forum...


"12 MP is enough for anybody."
"Who needs 8K?"
"How can Canon release a new camera with less than 50 MP and without 8K video?"


----------



## stochasticmotions (Jun 15, 2021)

maulanawale said:


> Yep, I'm one of those that never got along well with the A7RIV + 200-600 combo, granted it could have been a biological interface error, but I always had the feeling that the camera is extremely sensitive to the slightest shake and its IBIS is very poor. Had much better results with the A7III and even better results with the Oly EM1X when shooting handheld. Goes to show that we all value different specs differently I guess, to me, a top of the line IBIS seems to be the deal breaker well over resolution.
> 
> Regarding the R3, 30MPX hits the spot for me (as if it matters what I think ). As someone has mentioned, will allow me to keep the rest of my workflow untouched without the need for a new laptop and without messing up my HD/backup lifecycle too much.
> 
> ...


We definitely all have our reasons for the camera we find right for us. I had been waiting for a high resolution camera with good autofocus and a reasonable buffer since I got rid of my 1DIV and 5D2, and the A7RIV was the first to hit the mark. The R5 came a little later and I absolutely love both cameras. When they came out I probably would have bought the less expensive R6 if it had come in the same resolution as the R but I have gotten used to being able to crop and still have enough for 20x30 prints and I don't find 20MPixels is enough for me anymore. My other camera at the moment is the 5DS which is what I original replaced the 1DIV. Seems like I tend towards that high resolution and dealt with slower fps up until the latest cameras gave me both.

The R3 is likely to be an amazing workhorse, and I doubt you will be disappointed if that new sensor delivers as I expect it to.  I can't wait to see how good the autofocus is with that fast electronic shutter. Even if it is "only as good" as the R5 it is still going to be quite a fantastic camera.


----------



## exige24 (Jun 15, 2021)

Thanks for deciding for me not to spend $6,000 Canon. Haha Honestly this should be a crop sensor R7. 30 megapixel crop is 30 frames per second with a better autofocus is perfect. I'd buy that in a second. 30 megapixel full frame when they already have a 50 megapixel 20 frames per second camera out? For most likely $2,000 extra? Haha Nah. Good luck with that.


----------



## exige24 (Jun 15, 2021)

Skux said:


> Yeah I don't see how people are disappointed with this. If the BSI sensor works as advertised then 30mp is quite impressive for an action camera.
> 
> I'm sure all those 45mp comes in handy when your image ends up as a 1080x1080 square on Instagram.


If you have to crop any wildlife pictures you're damn right they will come in handy.


----------



## dtaylor (Jun 15, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> Comments like those you’ve made about ‘higher mp needing faster speeds to stop movement’ are normally greeted with the equivalence argument.
> However I have to say I’ve found the same thing with the 5DS - even when I do reduce the output size to 20mp……..


I've seen this on occasion. Oversampling always preserves more detail than directly sampling. A 50mp image scaled down to 20mp will be sharper and have more detail than an image captured on a 20mp sensor. But by the same token blur captured at 50mp can remain in a 20mp scaled down version.

The band between no blur on either and blur on both...where 50mp shows blur but 20mp does not...is rather narrow though. You need to bump shutter speeds on a 45mp or 50mp sensor. But the bump shouldn't have to be large versus a 20mp sensor, much less a 30mp one.


----------



## dtaylor (Jun 15, 2021)

Kit Chan said:


> The R1 is going to have a 200MP sensor with 60fps electronic shutter, 16k 120fps RAW video with global shutter, 20 stops image stabilization, octa-pixel autofocus, completely water proof up to 200 meters and it will fit in your pocket.
> 
> And it's not going to be called the R1, it will be called the R you satisfied?


Depends...what's the dynamic range?


----------



## Stuart (Jun 15, 2021)

EOS R3 
= 30Mp, 30fps, Log3 - any more threes?


----------



## Charlie_B (Jun 15, 2021)

DBounce said:


> The 30mp sensor seems a bit boring to me. Is this supposed to be an update over the R5? I’m not so sure it is. Can we assume “raw” would have to be a crop, since oversampled 4K would not be “raw”?
> This is shaping up to be a pass for me. I’ll wait and see what the R1 brings before making any decisions. I’m in no hurry. My current cameras are pretty awesome.


I agree entirely, I like my 45 mp R5 so will wait for the R1 . Once you get a taste of 45 mp anything less is a big NO !


----------



## AlanF (Jun 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> No one said Canon was lying. But try 21 shots on half battery or with the SD card or any of the other things that slow it down. Like on the 1DX, it is 14 FPS on paper, 12 FPS with AE/AF and the lens at 1/1000. This isn't a Canon thing, all manufacturers can only do their max FPS if enough conditions are met. The Sony A1 is reportedly getting to 15 FPS on third party lenses and only the full 30 on the latest Sony lenses.


It was with half battery: Canon's ES fps doesn't slow down with battery drain. The SD card is more than fast enough for a 21 shot burst - the cache on the R5 is about 2Gb or 40 shots of full RAW. But, that's beside the point - the camera has a CFExpress slot. Complaining that everything has to be right to get maximum performance is like complaining your car doesn't get the stated mpg when driving up hill.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Jun 15, 2021)

WJF said:


> My guess - $5899


That would be quite close to the 1D-X III...


----------



## justaCanonuser (Jun 15, 2021)

Diltiazem said:


> It is kinda sad that we don't talk about DR anymore. That's all we used to do even a couple of years ago and it was so much fun. Those were the golden days of CR.


Well, we had the hot 8k video overheating topic, but that's cooling down since nearly nobody shoots 8k 30+ minute takes in real life. So we have to find something else. Any ideas?


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> It was with half battery: Canon's ES fps doesn't slow down with battery drain. The SD card is more than fast enough for a 21 shot burst - the cache on the R5 is about 2Gb or 40 shots of full RAW. But, that's beside the point - the camera has a CFExpress slot. Complaining that everything has to be right to get maximum performance is like complaining your car doesn't get the stated mpg when driving up hill.



I don't think you get me here. I am not complaining. I am stating that the maximum FPS on cameras, even the 1DX has always required multiple conditions to be met. The R5 FPS does slow down when the battery remaining drops and you mention this yourself https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...e-r5-and-electronic-shutter.39310/post-869112 and we have cameras like the 1DxIII that gets 20 FPS with the mirror up. The list of conditions is not aimed at any specific camera nor brand.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 15, 2021)

I think the R3 sounds awful and I am sure it will be relegated to the bin of history like the Nikon DF and J series.

Can’t wait for the R3 II, maybe Canon will have worked out the bugs and get a 200mp sensor by then. I don’t understand anybody buying a camera with < 100mp in this day and age.


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## melgross (Jun 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> It shoots 8k so has to be 45-50MP.


Well, 40 anyway. But it’s still a guess.


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## melgross (Jun 15, 2021)

csibra said:


> Bah! It's 27% in Hungary. But professional shooters can get it back. Only private users needs to pay it.


I keep telling people that they should have an accountant to help them with capital expenses, depreciation, etc. But you’d be surprised at how many pros don’t understand any of that.


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## melgross (Jun 15, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Are you talking about the combined CFe type A/SD card slot that the A1 has? Type A cards are prohibitively expensive and hard to get and only made by Sony at this time. Canon and others use Type B cards which are physically larger, been available for longer, faster, and have multiple manufacturers.
> 
> Can you point to an example for a combined SD card/CFe Type B slot?


No this is for the larger cards.


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## melgross (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> Here in New Zealand an R5 is NZD 6,800 which is about USD 4,900 and we have a 15% sales tax but at least we get a full 5 year warranty which is better than the 2 years in Europe or the 1 year limited warranty in the USA


I’m just responding to the complaint at how expensive it is there.

about ten years ago when my daughter was accepted to The University Of The Arts, London (we’re in NYC), I asked whether we should buy her a Macbook Pro in London, or here in NYC. We were told to buy it in NYC and have her bring it over because it was more expensive there, and they were right. In addition to the, I think it was, 20% VAT, they added an additional 10% because there wasn’t some minimum of parts made in the UK. It was a LOT more there.


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## melgross (Jun 15, 2021)

melgross said:


> No this is for the larger cards.


I meant to add this to my reply after I mistakenly hit the post button.

I read an article about it around two months ago in one of my industry journals, which stated that production had begun on those connectors. That’s why I said that I didn’t know how production was going. I don’t remember where I read it, as I didn’t think much of it back then. If I see something I’ll report it here.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 15, 2021)

In NYC there is a nice large camera store called "B&H". They have everything there. It is nice that you can see everything before you buy it. I remember when I spent almost $200 there for an 8GB memory card and that what a good deal back then 

But I think if you arrive with an R3 in Germany, the box should not be in your luggage. Otherwise they know that you bought it there and then it gets really expensive. They never asked me about my 1D X though. I never had to prove that I bought in Germany.


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## Billybob (Jun 15, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Well, like most Sony specs, the 30 FPS are impressive on paper, but in real life shooting, you need to have the camera set just so, can't use tracking, must have compatable lenses, etc, to get it to work. Sony is smart, though. Almost every review or camera comparison says 30 FPS, which beats all the competition. They don't bother getting into all the requirements or circumstances where you won't get the 30 FPS. Other brands are probably catching on. have a spec that only works in a few situations, but looks great on a chart of specs or a YouTube review.


Like I said in my previous comment, I'm okay with 20fps and 40-50MP. Regardless, 50MP at 30fps even with caveats is damn impressive and is superior to the rumored specs for both Canon and Nikon's forthcoming pro-level offerings. What the Sony specs with caveats means is that you can expect at least 20-25fps with Sony lenses and on occasion hit the 30fps figure. That works just fine for me, and is still superior to the rumored R3 specs if you value high resolution(40-50MP is optimal for me; I don't want 60-80MP, but who's asking for my opinion?). However, if the Nikon Z9 hits 40MP at 20fps, I'll give it a hard look. I prefer Nikon ergonomics and a unigrip design over the Sony. Choices are wonderful, but I may just find that none of the pro-level bodies are sufficiently better than my R5 to make me swipe my credit card.


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## AEWest (Jun 15, 2021)

As I prepare to watch Germany v France at the Euros, I wonder how many R3s will be there capturing the action.


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## arbitrage (Jun 15, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Well, like most Sony specs, the 30 FPS are impressive on paper, but in real life shooting, you need to have the camera set just so, can't use tracking, must have compatable lenses, etc, to get it to work. Sony is smart, though. Almost every review or camera comparison says 30 FPS, which beats all the competition. They don't bother getting into all the requirements or circumstances where you won't get the 30 FPS. Other brands are probably catching on. have a spec that only works in a few situations, but looks great on a chart of specs or a YouTube review.


30FPS is really not that hard to achieve with the A1. I can get it in Tracking mode...not that Tracking mode is the ideal mode anyways for fast subjects you might want 30FPS for....but still it gets 30FPS in my testing. Otherwise 90%+ of Sony native lenses support 30FPS. Certainly any Sony lens you'd ever use for a subject that needs 30FPS. The only real caveat is you need to shoot Compressed RAW. I've never shot anything but on any Sony camera and I shoot CRAW on R5. No issues when everything I shoot is dual-gain ISO or higher. If any of those things are an issue then switch it down to 20 or 15 or 10 or 5. Or you can buy an R5 and be forced to shoot 20FPS ES for everything. Of course 12FPS MS is an option if you install a solar panel to keep the battery charged enough to get 12FPS.


Chig said:


> From what I see in reviews the Alpha 1 can't actually focus at 30fps on a fast moving subject so the 30fps is just marketing fluff and unusable unless you want to shoot 30fps of a static subject !
> A crop sensor 30mp R7 would give you more pixel density if it ever comes out


I can get 30FPS on my A1 on fast moving subjects all day long. I have saved 70-150 image sequences and converted them into GIFs. I double check each time the detailed time stamps and it hits 30 every time I've checked. It is certainly not marketing fluff.

But this is a Canon site so I'm not sure why people really care what the A1 can or cannot do? I've owned most higher end Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras. I shoot what is best at the time and sell it once it isn't getting used because I've started liking something else. I enjoy testing new gear.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

AEWest said:


> Probably same sensor as Sony A1.


The only Canon cameras with Sony sensors have CDAF.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What would be the cheapest country to buy a camera? Canada, the UK, some Asian country, India? If Corona is over, I would be willing to travel anywhere, if that saves me more money than the flight costs. Of course that is only possible with a global warranty.
> 
> I remember that the Sony A9 was quite cheap in the Sony store in Shanghai. It was 32,000 Yuan in 2017. Canon also has a store there, but I am not sure about the prices.


You could just buy the camera grey market or buy it off a local who you trust.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> I can live with 30MP if the AF is a clear upgrade form th already excellent R5. Disappointed it isn't a little higher, 36MP would have been excellent, but as long at it's not 20-24MP that'll ok. Just wish they'd do a lens roadmap and tell us when the 500 f/4 and 300 f/2.8 are coming.


The CR1 says around 30 MP


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> Canon doesn't do global warranties sadly but you can buy grey market and cross your fingers


I bought my R5 grey market but I also bought a warranty.
It did not end up saving me any money but it was the only way I could get one at that time.


----------



## frjmacias (Jun 15, 2021)

clkphotog said:


> But being very honest, I just want it lol.


This is my sentiment for 80% of the new gear I see. Lol. GAS gets you and holds on tight. Lol.


----------



## AlanF (Jun 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I don't think you get me here. I am not complaining. I am stating that the maximum FPS on cameras, even the 1DX has always required multiple conditions to be met. The R5 FPS does slow down when the battery remaining drops and you mention this yourself https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...e-r5-and-electronic-shutter.39310/post-869112 and we have cameras like the 1DxIII that gets 20 FPS with the mirror up. The list of conditions is not aimed at any specific camera nor brand.


The fps of mechanical shutter depends significantly on battery charge (and type of battery) but not the fps of electronic shutter.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> The fps of mechanical shutter depends significantly on battery charge (and type of battery) but not the fps of electronic shutter.


Ok. So as with every camera there are conditions to be met to hit the maximum FPS. I don’t know why we are trying to bring focus onto one specific camer?


----------



## Kuau (Jun 15, 2021)

Chig said:


> From what I see in reviews the Alpha 1 can't actually focus at 30fps on a fast moving subject so the 30fps is just marketing fluff and unusable unless you want to shoot 30fps of a static subject !
> A crop sensor 30mp R7 would give you more pixel density if it ever comes out


So true on the Sony A1, 30fps is mostly marketing fluff...


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 15, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> But this is a Canon site so I'm not sure why people really care what the A1 can or cannot do?


Well, if we could get similar performance with adapted EF lenses then these cameras would be a lot more attractive.
I used to dabble in Sony land but most of the improvements since then only benefit native lenses.


----------



## neurorx (Jun 15, 2021)

I don't understand why they wouldn't go with 2 CFExpress B cards. Can SD cards really keep up with 30 fps? People purchasing this camera will want speed and no buffer. I get the cost difference but if you are buying a camera to use it for speed and at >5K, why use an SD card that will limit the speed of the camera. Body size shouldn't be a limitation.


----------



## AEWest (Jun 15, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> The only Canon cameras with Sony sensors have CDAF.


I had meant the Nikon Z9 would likely have the Sony A1 sensor, not the Canon. Sorry if the response was ambiguous.


----------



## stevelee (Jun 15, 2021)

melgross said:


> That 20-21% VAT really hurts, doesn’t it?


And people tend to compare European prices that include VAT to American prices without sales tax, so it looks even worse.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jun 15, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Yep, people complained that the R6 had fewer MP than the R.
> It is not really an upgrade to the RP either since the bodies are so different but I can see how people could make that argument.


I can't see how that argument can be made at all. Sure. If everything else remained the same and the mp were dropped, that would be a downgrade. But if mp drop and everything else improves then it is either an option or an upgrade. I lost pixel density going from my 7d2 to the R6 and I achieved a fantastic improvement in IQ in 90% of situations.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 15, 2021)

neurorx said:


> I don't understand why they wouldn't go with 2 CFExpress B cards. Can SD cards really keep up with 30 fps? People purchasing this camera will want speed and no buffer. I get the cost difference but if you are buying a camera to use it for speed and at >5K, why use an SD card that will limit the speed of the camera. Body size shouldn't be a limitation.





Codebunny said:


> It is a bit silly to have it hampered by a SD card slot as backup. It's not like the body doesn't have the space for dual matching cards.



The main reason that they have different card slots is presumably to appeal to a broader audience, lots of people buying at this level surely have legacy cards from previous bodies. When I've upgraded in the past, I was glad to be able to use cards I had before (going from the 50D to 5D3, a CF, then later going to the 5Ds a high end SD). The other reason would presumably be lower cost. People are talking as if having unalike slots is because they can't, but it's clearly a deliberate decision.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 15, 2021)

AlanF said:


> While you wait, I'll be taking photos with one of the two best mirrorless available, the R5.


What's the other one?


----------



## David - Sydney (Jun 15, 2021)

melgross said:


> No this is for the larger cards.


Can you provide a link showing a combined CFe type B/SD card slot? either existing camera or OEM part?


----------



## neurorx (Jun 15, 2021)

scyrene said:


> The main reason that they have different card slots is presumably to appeal to a broader audience, lots of people buying at this level surely have legacy cards from previous bodies. When I've upgraded in the past, I was glad to be able to use cards I had before (going from the 50D to 5D3, a CF, then later going to the 5Ds a high end SD). The other reason would presumably be lower cost. People are talking as if having unalike slots is because they can't, but it's clearly a deliberate decision.


I get the legacy card idea, but I think it would be frustrating trying to shoot 20-30 fps and have a camera stall like the Sony a9/a9ii because the buffer fills...its a sports, wildlife, speed oriented camera. Maybe it will have sufficient processing power to overcome the write speed of the card?


----------



## SHAMwow (Jun 15, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> How many frames do you usually shoot in a continuous burst at maximum frame rate?


I couldn't say exactly, but I understand what you're getting at. So when I shoot sports on my R5, I'm shooting at the 12fps mode. In bursts. I couldn't say for how long I'm holding down the shutter for, but after a year of shooting events/sports I still haven't had that moment where the shutter chugs and waits for the buffer to clear. I just don't see a situation where that becomes a problem. Shoot the series of actions, pause, shoot the next series. Or, shoot the bird, wait, shoot the next bird.


----------



## Bdbtoys (Jun 16, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I think the R3 sounds awful and I am sure it will be relegated to the bin of history like the Nikon DF and J series.
> 
> Can’t wait for the R3 II, maybe Canon will have worked out the bugs and get a 200mp sensor by then. I don’t understand anybody buying a camera with < 100mp in this day and age.



Quick, someone let an admin know that PBD's account got hacked


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 16, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Tony Northrup made a video about that idea. He showed that it would cause some problems for the high resolution image, as such a configuartion would need a different Bayer filter. To combine four pixels to one, the Bayer filter of those pixels would need to have the same colour and that would cause problems in certain situations. He talks about that in the R1 rumors video he posted two or three months ago.


The fact that you rely on TN for any sort of information is not surprising, from the few of your posts I’ve read. Well, you probably could rely on TN for astrology information, that’s at his technical level.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Jun 16, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R1 will have not less than 80 mp and will be able to pixel bin to 20 mp. My opinion is that the R1 will not be a sports oriented camera but a studio camera with global shutter to flash sync at any speed.
> 
> Just because the 1DX3 is sports oriented, that doesn't mean the R1 has to be. Canon hasn't had an R3 type camera, so their lineup is shifting. With the R3 as their pro sports/PJ camera, the R1 will be their high resolution pro studio camera.


LOL, 80MP global shutter sensor, good luck with that.


----------



## talkin73 (Jun 16, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I am 100% sure R1 will be a sports-oriented camera unless there is a separate R1X.
> If R3 was a 1DX replacement then it would have 2 CF Express slots.


The lack of dual express cards is perplexing especially given the size. They don’t need a lot of space to dissipate heat from 8k video so… the drop in speed when you auto switch to another card is likely a serious turn off for some potential buyers used to this specific type of redundancy.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Jun 16, 2021)

melgross said:


> I don’t remember that Nikon told us the rez of the Z9. Did they? (I’m too lazy to look it up right now.)


No didn't revela res, just we know it has to be a minimum of 39MP for 8K (7840 x 4320) or 42MP for DCI 8K, which no one but CAnon seems to use. I doubt it will be less than the D850 res.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Jun 16, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I can't imagine the R1 having a low rez sensor. The Nikon Z9 will have approx 50 mp for the flagship assuming its the same sensor as Sony A1, with a pro body unlike the Sony. I therefore doubt the R1 will be any lower. If it has a lower resolution, what is the value proposition over the R3? Dual CF express card slots? 40 fps?
> 
> If we assume that the R3 will sell for $5K, and the R1 will sell for $7K (inline with a 1 series price) what would the extra $2K get me? Global shutter? At that price difference, I would stick with the R3.


No way a global shutter FF sensor will be very high MP, not for a first gen sensor. R1 will differentiate itself, with higher res faster refresh EVF, probable ability to shoot 40fps, dual CFE A cards, even more rugged, QPAF, higher performing FTP, Wifi. Global shutter is a big deal, falsh sync at any shutter speed and no rolling shutter in video. But todate global shutter sensor have been hampered by much lower DR. Canon, Sony and Panasonic have alternative patents to get around this however, but I highly doubt they could full frame high readout of a lot more than 20-30MP and meet noise targets. Also R3 might be closer to $6K.

It would be to position the R3 as the flagship for sports journalists and the R1 would then be targetted at who exactly.

IMO the R3 should be the R5 on steroids, does everything better, no heat issues with 8K video, higher res EVF, bigger buffer, stacked sensor. R3 should be of appeal to a huge audience (price aside). R1 would be in a unique position if it has global shutter and would be perfect for serious pros.

No doubt this is the exact opposite of how it will pan out, but I would be disappointed to see the R1 be the high MP camera and the R3 the low res one.


----------



## usern4cr (Jun 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> The fact that you rely on TN for any sort of information is not surprising, from the few of your posts I’ve read. Well, you probably could rely on TN for astrology information, that’s at his technical level.


TN has IMHO very informative information on photography issues and history. Is he always right? - No, of course not. None of us are. But that is no reason to call him, and the fellow CR poster, someone who relies on "astrology" information. I'd hope we were all able to interact better than that.


----------



## AEWest (Jun 16, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> No way a global shutter FF sensor will be very high MP, not for a first gen sensor. R1 will differentiate itself, with higher res faster refresh EVF, probable ability to shoot 40fps, dual CFE A cards, even more rugged, QPAF, higher performing FTP, Wifi. Global shutter is a big deal, falsh sync at any shutter speed and no rolling shutter in video. But todate global shutter sensor have been hampered by much lower DR. Canon, Sony and Panasonic have alternative patents to get around this however, but I highly doubt they could full frame high readout of a lot more than 20-30MP and meet noise targets. Also R3 might be closer to $6K.
> 
> It would be to position the R3 as the flagship for sports journalists and the R1 would then be targetted at who exactly.
> 
> ...


Maybe the R1 will include lawn bowling af to differentiate from the R3...


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## Bluegrass (Jun 16, 2021)

The R3 at 30fps and 30mp could be perfect for my 'birds in flight' photography. Hopefully the auto focus will improve upon the already good R5. I find very fast birds at close range are not tracked quickly enough in frame with the current R5 autofocus. I already shoot at 20fps in electronic shutter mode, using Canons compressed raw, which gives average file sizes around the 30mp range. The big questions will be a) Can the auto focus track faster than the current R5 b) Can it shoot consistently at 30fps in electronic shutter mode whilst improving on the rolling shutter effect experienced with the R5 at high shutter speeds.... 1/5000 or higher in my experience. If the answer is yes, then its well worth switching from the R5 to the R3 for my wildlife work. In terms of twin CFexpress card slots....i would suggest the issue is more about heat.......The type 'b' cards generate intense heat very quickly when shooting fast bursts. If writing to two of them simultaneously, i would be very concerned about heat dissipation, and would not be surprised if the cooler second slot sd card choice is a compromise with heat in mind.


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## David_D (Jun 16, 2021)

Only a semi-serious question, as I am probably reading to much into this, but ... I had an email from Canon selling the R3:


> EOS R3 SPECS REVEALED
> 
> The EOS R3 is our new high-performance, high-speed mirrorless camera perfect for pro sports and wildlife photography and filmmaking – discover what it has to offer.


Would < 8K (i.e. 30mp) be "*perfect for *pro sports and wildlife photography and *filmmaking*"? I can see the arguments for pro sport, wildlife would prefer higher mp but could compromise for other improved features, but would it be perfect for filmmaking? (Certainly not for 8K!)


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## koenkooi (Jun 16, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> [..] R1 will differentiate itself, [..]dual CFE A cards,[..]


I don't think the R1 will use slower cards than the R5 or 1DX3, CFe type A is half the speed of CFe type B.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 16, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> LOL, 80MP global shutter sensor, good luck with that.


The theory is that it will be a 20 MP global shutter and an 80 MP rolling shutter.
RED Konlodo has a 20 MP global shutter already although it is super 35.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 16, 2021)

David_D said:


> Only a semi-serious question, as I am probably reading to much into this, but ... I had an email from Canon selling the R3:
> 
> Would < 8K (i.e. 30mp) be "*perfect for *pro sports and wildlife photography and *filmmaking*"? I can see the arguments for pro sport, wildlife would prefer higher mp but could compromise for other improved features, but would it be perfect for filmmaking? (Certainly not for 8K!)


1DX Mark III and C 300 Mark III are arguably perfect for filmaking.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 16, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> TN has IMHO very informative information on photography issues and history. Is he always right? - No, of course not. None of us are. But that is no reason to call him, and the fellow CR poster, someone who relies on "astrology" information. I'd hope we were all able to interact better than that.


Northrup is an infotainer who’s job is to generate income from clickthroughs.

Yes, everyone makes mistakes. but when someone points out your mistake, you admit that you were wrong and move on. If instead, like Northrup, you double down on your mistake in the comments section of the original post and further in subsequent posts, IMO you’ve totally lost credibility.

But the beauty of the Internet is that if you want to read the National Enquirer for factual information about alien-celebrity hybrid babies or visit Northrup’s feed for camera technical information, you are free to do so. Caveat emptor.


----------



## BuffaloBird (Jun 16, 2021)

If this really is 'only' 30MP, it is an absolute pass from me, which is sad. I would love a 1-series body, but I am not downgrading from the 45MP R5 to get it. I've grown to love the flexibility of the R5 MPs for my small bird photography. The 20MP strategy of the 1Dx series is the sole reason I never jumped on those, either.


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## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> What is an anonymous source? Someone who just contacted you and told you that number? If he knows the number, why does he just say "around"?
> 
> We already know that it probably does not have 8K, because 4K was mentioned. So it has less than the 39.3 megapixels needed for 8K, which is very good news.
> 
> If it has 30 megapixels, the question is if it is worth buying know or if it would be better two save another $2000 or so more and wait another year or so with the R1 with a much better 20 mepapixel or so sensor. How much time or money would the upgrade from 30 to 20 megapixels be worth?


You lost me.

Why would 20MP be better than 30MP?

Thanks in advance,

cayenne


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 16, 2021)

cayenne said:


> You lost me.
> 
> Why would 20MP be better than 30MP?
> 
> ...


Lower noise, higher dymamic range and higher f-stop possible before diffraction is visible on a pixel level. Of course you could always downsample a highe resolution image to a lower raeolution, but why not use a low resolution in the first place? Getting a high resolution image sharp, requires less camera shake, less subject movement or a much shorter exposure which you have to compensate by either higher ISO of a lowr f-stop. So your photography will change a lot. You might even be required to use a tripod in situations where you would to a hand held shot if the resolution was smaller. And you might need to buy a much sharper and therefore more expensive lens. It is much easier to take photos in way that they look good at 20 megapixels.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> I posted yesterday a burst of 21 shots of a dragonfly in flight using ES on the R5 + 100-500 and according to the EXIF data 20 of those were in one second (frames 2-21 all dated 13 June 2021 at 12:53:33, frame 1 12:53:32) so I don't think Canon is lying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With the right EXIF viewer you can actually see the sub-second that each image was exposed. I imagine this is the time when the shutter starts to open, or maybe when it closes? With E-shutter that would be the beginning or ending of readout? Maybe when ADC begins/ends? Whatever it is, Canon includes the sub-second in a separate "maker note" field apart from the standard date/time field that does not allow for anything shorter than one second. But most applications that read EXIF info do not display it.


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## AlanF (Jun 16, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Lower noise, higher dymamic range and higher f-stop possible before diffraction is visible on a pixel level. Of course you could always downsample a highe resolution image to a lower raeolution, but why not use a low resolution in the first place? Getting a high resolution image sharp, requires less camera shake, less subject movement or a much shorter exposure which you have to compensate by either higher ISO of a lowr f-stop. So your photography will change a lot. You might even be required to use a tripod in situations where you would to a hand held shot if the resolution was smaller. And you might need to buy a much sharper and therefore more expensive lens. It is much easier to take photos in way that they look good at 20 megapixels.


There are real reasons for using low resolution sensors, but not the ones you have just listed. There are good reasons for using a higher resolution sensor in the first place. At the worst, the higher megapixel sensor can be down sampled (= viewed at the same output size in inches or cm) and will have about the same noise, DR, diffraction effects, aberration of lens effects, size of shake etc as the lower resolution. But, if the conditions are favourable, it will give a sharper image with more detail. Also, importnatly, you can user shorter focal length telephoto lenses on the higher resolution sensor to give the same overall resolution as longer, heavier and much more expensive lenses with a low resolution sensor. These are good reasons why some of us will sensibly decide for our purposes to go for high resolution sensor in the first place.

Some advantages of a low resolution sensors are smaller file sizes, faster read out, lower cost of production etc. For many, the lower resolution sensors are more than good enough.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 16, 2021)

Stuart said:


> EOS R3
> = 30Mp, 30fps, Log3 - any more threes?



Three kidneys.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 16, 2021)

Billybob said:


> Like I said in my previous comment, I'm okay with 20fps and 40-50MP. Regardless, 50MP at 30fps even with caveats is damn impressive and is superior to the rumored specs for both Canon and Nikon's forthcoming pro-level offerings. What the Sony specs with caveats means is that you can expect at least 20-25fps with Sony lenses and on occasion hit the 30fps figure. That works just fine for me, and is still superior to the rumored R3 specs if you value high resolution(40-50MP is optimal for me; I don't want 60-80MP, but who's asking for my opinion?). However, if the Nikon Z9 hits 40MP at 20fps, I'll give it a hard look. I prefer Nikon ergonomics and a unigrip design over the Sony. Choices are wonderful, but I may just find that none of the pro-level bodies are sufficiently better than my R5 to make me swipe my credit card.



Do you ever actually go out and shoot?

Who actually shoots at 30 fps when you can't track a moving subject at that rate? The best fame rate the Sony α9 can do with Sony lenses when AF is tracking the subject between frames is 15 fps. The α1 is similar.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 16, 2021)

stevelee said:


> And people tend to compare European prices that include VAT to American prices without sales tax, so it looks even worse.



Especially when the laws in Europe require multi-year warranties while here in the U.S after one year it is KMAG YOYO unless you pay another 10% or so of the camera or lens' price for an extended warranty.


----------



## JoseB (Jun 16, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> TN has IMHO very informative information on photography issues and history. Is he always right? - No, of course not. None of us are. But that is no reason to call him, and the fellow CR poster, someone who relies on "astrology" information. I'd hope we were all able to interact better than that.


TN's pixel shift explanation is fantastic!!!


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## Michael Clark (Jun 16, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> No way a global shutter FF sensor will be very high MP, not for a first gen sensor. R1 will differentiate itself, with higher res faster refresh EVF, probable ability to shoot 40fps, dual CFE A cards, even more rugged, QPAF, higher performing FTP, Wifi. Global shutter is a big deal, falsh sync at any shutter speed and no rolling shutter in video. But todate global shutter sensor have been hampered by much lower DR. Canon, Sony and Panasonic have alternative patents to get around this however, but I highly doubt they could full frame high readout of a lot more than 20-30MP and meet noise targets. Also R3 might be closer to $6K.
> 
> It would be to position the R3 as the flagship for sports journalists and the R1 would then be targetted at who exactly.
> 
> ...



Flash sync at any Tv is a red herring. Sure, 1/500 or 1/1000 would be nice. 

But past that you start running into the time the flash needs to release all of its energy. Speedlites are called that because their low power allows them to release a low power burst very quickly. At, say, 1/128 power they can have durations as short as 1/10,000. But even speedlites at full power usually take longer than 1/1000 or even 1/500 to do a full dump. Most larger studio lights are even slower at full power unless you spend a ton of money.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 16, 2021)

JoseB said:


> TN's pixel shift explanation is fantastic!!!


Maybe, I wouldn't know. The first...and last...TN video I ever watched was where he compared the ‘sports performance’ of the D800 and 5DIII and concluded that the D800 was much better for sports; sports in his context was his subject/wife walking towards him at the pace of a garden snail.

I started using pixel shift in Zeiss cameras back in 2001.


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## JoseB (Jun 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maybe, I wouldn't know. The first...and last...TN video I ever watched was where he compared the ‘sports performance’ of the D800 and 5DIII and concluded that the D800 was much better for sports; sports in his context was his subject/wife walking towards him at the pace of a garden snail.
> 
> I started using pixel shift in Zeiss cameras back in 2001.


You shoud view his explanation of pix shift...


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## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Corona isn't over. Not by a long shot.


I dunno where you live, but it pretty much is here and for most of the US I'd guess.

I'm in the New Orleans area...and you see old crowd levels out a restaurants, public gatherings, etc....hardly a mask in sight.

No mandates here...actually there were very few at all during the whole thing.

YMMV.


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## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> My condolences (sincerely). I hope you have gotten the vaccines. We have them now, after hiding away for a year. While I now feel freed, I try not to talk too much about it as so many others in the world have not had the option to choose that we have had.


I got my 2x round shots of Pfizer by end of March...it's been wonderful to go back to my normal life again.

It is sad that numbers have fallen off here for vaccinations, you can get them walk in right now.

I think I saw on new that some states, possibly including mine...are sending doses back so they don't get wasted....the demand for shots has plummeted.


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## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Once sales tax is added, most of us here in the U.S. pay about $4,200-4,300 for the R5 at $3,899 retail.


Nah....just get the PayBoo card at B&H and that nixes your sales tax.....


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## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Lower noise, higher dymamic range and higher f-stop possible before diffraction is visible on a pixel level. Of course you could always downsample a highe resolution image to a lower raeolution, but why not use a low resolution in the first place? Getting a high resolution image sharp, requires less camera shake, less subject movement or a much shorter exposure which you have to compensate by either higher ISO of a lowr f-stop. So your photography will change a lot. You might even be required to use a tripod in situations where you would to a hand held shot if the resolution was smaller. And you might need to buy a much sharper and therefore more expensive lens. It is much easier to take photos in way that they look good at 20 megapixels.


But most of the new cameras have IBIS and other things to help with the camera shake, etc.
It seems that the new cameras now have tech that mitigate the problems you mentioned for the most part.

And between 20 and 30....hard to imagine that's enough difference to make a difference?

C


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## AlanF (Jun 16, 2021)

cayenne said:


> But most of the new cameras have IBIS and other things to help with the camera shake, etc.
> It seems that the new cameras now have tech that mitigate the problems you mentioned for the most part.
> 
> And between 20 and 30....hard to imagine that's enough difference to make a difference?
> ...


For those of us using telephoto lenses, an increase from 20-30Mpx means that in reasonable light a 400mm has the resolution of a 500mm, and 500mm the resolution of a 600mm lens. And from 20 to 45Mpx, a 400mm gives 600mm of resolution and a 500mm 750mm. Quite a saving in weight and money. It's worth it for any downsides.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 16, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Nah....just get the PayBoo card at B&H and that nixes your sales tax.....



I don't do credit cards, which is what PayBoo is.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jun 16, 2021)

cayenne said:


> I dunno where you live, but it pretty much is here and for most of the US I'd guess.
> 
> I'm in the New Orleans area...and you see old crowd levels out a restaurants, public gatherings, etc....hardly a mask in sight.
> 
> ...



So Mardi Gras was the same as usual in 2021? That's not what I heard.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> For those of us using telephoto lenses, an increase from 20-30Mpx means that in reasonable light a 400mm has the resolution of a 500mm, and 500mm the resolution of a 600mm lens. And from 20 to 45Mpx, a 400mm gives 600mm of resolution and a 500mm 750mm. Quite a saving in weight and money. It's worth it for any downsides.


Depends on the resolution of the lens. Once that limit is reached, it can't resolve more line pairs even if the resolution of the sensor gets higher. If a lens can resolve 5,000 lines or so, that is already quite a lot. If you make sure that the sensor has a lower resolution that the lens, you have a high chance of very crisp looking photos.

Even some L-lenses have a low resoultion. For example the famous 17-40 f/4. If I would put that on a higher resolution body, it might be somewhat sharper in the center, but the rest would look like an already blur photo upsampled even further. For 45 megapixels or even more, you really need very sharp and very expensive lenses.

I really like my Tamron 200-500, because it is very light and affordable, but on a 45 megapixel body the photos would look blurry. I would have to downsample all of them to make them look better. And even with the sharpest lens, hot air will spoil your image.


----------



## Billybob (Jun 16, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Do you ever actually go out and shoot?
> 
> Who actually shoots at 30 fps when you can't track a moving subject at that rate? The best fame rate the Sony α9 can do with Sony lenses when AF is tracking the subject between frames is 15 fps. The α1 is similar.


Lol, reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit. I stated not once but twice that I'd be happy with a high-rez camera that does 20fps, so I don't know why you're focused on my comments about 30fps.

Regardless, you obviously have never shot with the A1--or never shot competently with the A1--or you are just intent on spreading misinformation. There are reasons to criticize the A1, but claiming the camera is incapable of tracking moving objects at 30fps with AF is not one of them. Sony has something it calls "tracking mode", which attempts to track a moving object even when things momentarily obscure it. That mode hardly ever works. Instead, most competent Sony photographers use the AF-C focusing mode. There are dozens of examples of the A1 tracking moving objects with a high in-focus rate. Check out the A1 work of wildlife photographer Alex Phan and this video review from Mark Galer 



, start at 29:45 mark. 
Accordingly, after looking at their work, I rate your claims as "pants on fire" in terms of accuracy.

You also seem to suffer from a failure of imagination. Those who shoot at 30fps are not looking for 30 keepers in that second. Rather, they are hoping to get the perfect capture in an action sequence. The instance the bat hits the ball (if you've ever shot a baseball game, you know how difficult that is), a cornerback reaching in and taking a football away from a wideout, a barn swallow cavorting in midair, or killer whales playing "catch" with a seal. So, yes, there is value to a fast burst rate, but if you had understood my clear statements, you would have notice that I find 20fps adequate.


----------



## WJF (Jun 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> But the beauty of the Internet is that if you want to read the National Enquirer for factual information about alien-celebrity hybrid babies or visit Northrup’s feed for camera technical information, you are free to do so. Caveat emptor.


Wait.... are you saying that alien-celebrity hybrid babies are NOT true?!!? I've been led astray!


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## arbitrage (Jun 16, 2021)

neurorx said:


> I don't understand why they wouldn't go with 2 CFExpress B cards. Can SD cards really keep up with 30 fps? People purchasing this camera will want speed and no buffer. I get the cost difference but if you are buying a camera to use it for speed and at >5K, why use an SD card that will limit the speed of the camera. Body size shouldn't be a limitation.


Before I purchased my own R5 and a CFExpress card I did many days of testing my friends' R5. I used my high-end UHS_II SD cards (Sony Tough and Delkin Power). I really had no issues running into buffer stall. Sure CFe makes the write light go out faster but you really have to be pushing your bursts for a long while in order to get a pause in the FPS.

If we look at data rates R5: 20x45=900.....take a guess what 30x30 equals  

I usually prefer matching fast slots over two different slots. I certainly valued that on my 1DX. But at that point in time it really did affect you if you had to use the slower SD slot in other mixed cameras or shoot mirrored. With the R5 I just wasn't affected by using SD cards. With my A1 doing 30x50 I'm also only using UHS-SDII cards and also have never hit the buffer or stalled out my FPS. Sony made some major writing improvements compared to my previous A9II and A7RIV. CFe-A would be nice back on the computer but way too expensive at this time.

I think the mixed slot CFe-A/SD is a great slot. Gives maximum choice for people who want the fastest possible or the slow, old cards. But CFe-B is faster so a similar slot designed to do CFe-B/SD would be ideal.


----------



## AlanF (Jun 16, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Depends on the resolution of the lens. Once that limit is reached, it can't resolve more line pairs even if the resolution of the sensor gets higher. If a lens can resolve 5,000 lines or so, that is already quite a lot. If you make sure that the sensor has a lower resolution that the lens, you have a high chance of very crisp looking photos.
> 
> Even some L-lenses have a low resoultion. For example the famous 17-40 f/4. If I would put that on a higher resolution body, it might be somewhat sharper in the center, but the rest would look like an already blur photo upsampled even further. For 45 megapixels or even more, you really need very sharp and very expensive lenses.
> 
> I really like my Tamron 200-500, because it is very light and affordable, but on a 45 megapixel body the photos would look blurry. I would have to downsample all of them to make them look better. And even with the sharpest lens, hot air will spoil your image.


The combined resolution of the sensor and the lens is MTF = MTF(lens)*MTF(sensor). The combination of the same lens with a higher resolution sensor will _always_ outresolve the combination of that lens with a lower resolution sensor unless the MTF of the lens is zero.


----------



## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> I don't do credit cards, which is what PayBoo is.


It's B&H's in store card.

I don't carry balances on credit cards, but I have them.

I use them just for this purpose....to get my sales tax "paid for".
I use it to get the cash pack percentage on my purchases.

The only exception for carrying any balance on a card, is my Apple Card...in that when I buy their products with that card, I get 3% off AND I get 24 months interest free to pay it off.
That being said, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for....but why not do the interest free, take the 3% back and put that money into any type of interest bearing account and make money off their money...etc.

I understand where you're coming from....I was in dept once and will never be again willingly. I save to buy...but I don't mind having credit cards because I never carry a balance on them, I use them like cash I pay off in 30 days.

C


----------



## usern4cr (Jun 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Northrup is an infotainer who’s job is to generate income from clickthroughs.
> 
> Yes, everyone makes mistakes. but when someone points out your mistake, you admit that you were wrong and move on. If instead, like Northrup, you double down on your mistake in the comments section of the original post and further in subsequent posts, IMO you’ve totally lost credibility.
> 
> But the beauty of the Internet is that if you want to read the National Enquirer for factual information about alien-celebrity hybrid babies or visit Northrup’s feed for camera technical information, you are free to do so. Caveat emptor.


I do grant that TN is an infotainer, etc. I haven't read his subsequent comments, and would hope that if he repeats something that's incorrect that it's because he is mistaken and didn't know it. If he did know he was wrong and repeated it then that would be shameful, indeed. But how would I know which is which?

I don't use TN for factual information, personally. But I do find his posts interesting and it seems that he is doing his best to be correct. There are indeed times when I disagree with him, but that is true of anyone, and there are times I am wrong. In those cases I am glad to be corrected and will admit it appropriately.

Anyway, we can all be happy that Canon is coming out with the R3 and other bodies & lenses. Now that they've finally put BSI into their FF sensors I think we will see some amazing improvements in what they come out with. It's a great time to buy their cameras, provided you can afford them.


----------



## usern4cr (Jun 16, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Especially when the laws in Europe require multi-year warranties while here in the U.S after one year it is KMAG YOYO unless you pay another 10% or so of the camera or lens' price for an extended warranty.


What does KMAG YOYO mean? (just curious)


----------



## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> So Mardi Gras was the same as usual in 2021? That's not what I heard.


No.....it has been in the last 2-3 months or so things pretty much fully opened.

Orleans parish was a bit more cautious that the surrounding ones and rest of the state.

Mask mandates lifted and vaccinations were going on...

However, many of our festivals ARE going to be held delayed this year.

Our BIG ones, French Quarter Fest and JazzFest will be Sept/Oct....I plan to be on Jazzfest photog staff.

07/03/2021 - French Market Creole Tomato Festival
07/10/2021 - Running of the Bulls
07/14/2021 - COOLinary New Orleans
07/31/2021 - Satchmo SummerFest
08/07/2021 - Hancock Whitney White Linen Night
09/02/2021 - Southern Decadence
09/20/2021 - Tales of the Cocktail (Virtual)
09/23/2021 - Top Taco
09/25/2021 - Beignet Festival
09/30/2021 - French Quarter Festival
10/08/2021 - New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival
10/21/2021 - New Orleans Book Festival
10/22/2021 - BUKU: PLANET B
10/23/2021 - Krewe of Boo
10/23/2021 - National Fried Chicken Fest
10/23/2021 - Prospect.5 - Yesterday We Said Tomorrow
10/31/2021 - Halloween
11/04/2021 - Bayou Bacchanal
11/05/2021 - Greek Fest

They did postpone VooDoo Fest till next year....but we're coming back to life here with our Festivals.

I anticipate that Mardi Gras will be back to normal next year...in fact, if all goes well, I would guess it will be one of the LARGEST celebrations we've had down here in decades. This stuff is VERY important to the people here.

We're used to eating, drinking, dancing and having fun with each other in this city.


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## usern4cr (Jun 16, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Nah....just get the PayBoo card at B&H and that nixes your sales tax.....


I'll second that. I've enjoyed using PayBoo as it's a legal way to buy stuff without (you) having to pay sales tax. It's an interesting loophole they use where they still advertise the MSRP price and you still pay the MSRP price, and the state sales tax is still paid. It's just that B&H pays the sales tax (which varies greatly from state-to-state) for you.


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## cayenne (Jun 16, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I'll second that. I've enjoyed using PayBoo as it's a legal way to buy stuff without (you) having to pay sales tax. It's an interesting loophole they use where they still advertise the MSRP price and you still pay the MSRP price, and the state sales tax is still paid. It's just that B&H pays the sales tax (which varies greatly from state-to-state) for you.


This was a NOT insignificant savings on the GFX100 I got from them.

In fact, pretty much any large large ticket item especially, I buy form B&H.

And their shipping is actually pretty surprisingly quick too, from NY to Nola...I get it usually in a business week at least, or better.


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## unfocused (Jun 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> ...Yes, everyone makes mistakes. but when someone points out your mistake, you admit that you were wrong and move on...



I'm not sure you are the best person to be offering that advice.


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## dtaylor (Jun 17, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Lower noise, higher dymamic range and higher f-stop possible before diffraction is visible on a pixel level.


The first two are observably false with current sensors when the comparison is made at the same view size.

As to the third: I have not found diffraction to be an issue. Say you pit a 5DsR (DLA of f/6.7) against a 5D3 (DLA of f/10.1). The 5DsR is still going to produce the sharper, more detailed file at f/8, f/11, and f/16. At f/22 diffraction is hitting both pretty hard, but you still haven't lost anything for shooting the higher resolution sensor. Same is going to be true with the R5 and R6. People tend to interpret DLA as a hard limit when it simply is not.

Now if someone just doesn't need or care about higher resolution files, by all means save some money and give yourself a little extra room on shutter speed with the lower resolution model. 20-30mp is nothing to sneeze at. An R6 can handle most subject/print size combos easily. But the flip side is that higher resolution sensors are not crippled any time you're out without a tripod or have to stop down to f/11. If you want that level of detail for whatever reason (large prints; cropping; reach) it works very well.


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## dtaylor (Jun 17, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Even some L-lenses have a low resoultion. For example the famous 17-40 f/4. If I would put that on a higher resolution body, it might be somewhat sharper in the center, but the rest would look like an already blur photo upsampled even further.


I owned the 17-40L when I added the 5Ds. I thought I would hate it on the 5Ds based on edge performance on crop bodies (which was really mid-frame performance). In practice it seemed better on the 5Ds. If you Google Bob Atkins review of the 5Ds you will see the same thing when he puts the cheapest consumer lens he can on a 6D and then on a 5Ds.

I believe Alan points this out in a later reply: optical system resolution is always worse than the weakest component. But improving any component will improve the final result.


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## canonmike (Jun 17, 2021)

cayenne said:


> It's B&H's in store card.
> 
> I don't carry balances on credit cards, but I have them.
> 
> ...


I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.


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## JohnC (Jun 17, 2021)

canonmike said:


> I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.


Yes, works like a charm. And very nice (and smart) of Bh to set that up when the tax laws changed.


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## Ozarker (Jun 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> My condolences (sincerely). I hope you have gotten the vaccines. We have them now, after hiding away for a year. While I now feel freed, I try not to talk too much about it as so many others in the world have not had the option to choose that we have had.


Thankfully, we got the vaccine (Moderna) almost immediately upon moving to Arkansas from Texas. Texas never contacted us though we were registered months ago. Here, we set an appointment and got it within a week.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 17, 2021)

Billybob said:


> You also seem to suffer from a failure of imagination. Those who shoot at 30fps are not looking for 30 keepers in that second. Rather, they are hoping to get the perfect capture in an action sequence. The instance the bat hits the ball (if you've ever shot a baseball game, you know how difficult that is), a cornerback reaching in and taking a football away from a wideout, a barn swallow cavorting in midair, or killer whales playing "catch" with a seal. So, yes, there is value to a fast burst rate, but if you had understood my clear statements, you would have notice that I find 20fps adequate.



Since the bat and ball are only in contact for about 1/2000 or less, even 30 fps is still a crap shoot.

I seem to have been misinformed regarding the α1 body's ability to track subjects between frames at 30 fps. I haven't seen one out in the wild anywhere. I have (briefly) a few times handled and shot the α9 and α9 II and they certainly are more limited when subject tracking between frames is required.

Even at 10 fps one can catch peak action. One just has to work harder and have better timing to get it. Some of us learned it back in the days of "blazing fast" 2.5 fps film winders.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 17, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> Before I purchased my own R5 and a CFExpress card I did many days of testing my friends' R5. I used my high-end UHS_II SD cards (Sony Tough and Delkin Power). I really had no issues running into buffer stall. Sure CFe makes the write light go out faster but you really have to be pushing your bursts for a long while in order to get a pause in the FPS.
> 
> If we look at data rates R5: 20x45=900.....take a guess what 30x30 equals
> 
> ...



It's good to hear the R5 is not suffering from the same issue when writing to two dissimilar cards as the DSLR 1-Series, 5-Series, and 7D Mark II did.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 17, 2021)

cayenne said:


> It's B&H's in store card.
> 
> I don't carry balances on credit cards, but I have them.
> 
> ...



Read the fine print. B&H is not the issuer of the card, Synchrony Bank is.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 17, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> What does KMAG YOYO mean? (just curious)



Kiss My A$$ Goodbye. You're On Your Own. It's pretty easy to google it.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 17, 2021)

canonmike said:


> I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.



The reason I stopped messing with them at all was due to the way CitiBank did back in 2001 after 9/11 and then the Antrax mailer.

Without telling anyone, they stockpiled their mail (including my payment that had been mailed two weeks before it was due) in a warehouse in Nevada claiming they couldn't open it due to the possibility of their workers being exposed to Anthrax. When my check had not cleared two days before it was due I called their customer service line and asked for a street address so I could FedEx them another check. The CSR assured me since I had never been late with a payment they would waive the late charge if it was a few days late. What he did not say was that they were going to jack my interest rate from 2.9% to 26%, report me to the credit bureaus for one late payment (that had been in their possession before it was due), and cause a domino effect on every card I carried going from low single digit interest rates to near 30%. Admittedly, at the time I had recently been on the verge of being overextended but with the low interest rates was on track to whittle the balances down in only 3-4 years until my interest rates ballooned and the minimum payments tripled yet still didn't even cover the interest at 26-28%.

It ruined my financial life for the next 5-7 years. Only months later did the news come out that they had stored a months worth of mail the USPS had delivered without opening it.

I refuse to ever give any of them another chance to claim they didn't receive a payment and then screw me over like that again. Never.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 17, 2021)

dtaylor said:


> The first two are observably false with current sensors when the comparison is made at the same view size.
> 
> As to the third: I have not found diffraction to be an issue. Say you pit a 5DsR (DLA of f/6.7) against a 5D3 (DLA of f/10.1). The 5DsR is still going to produce the sharper, more detailed file at f/8, f/11, and f/16. At f/22 diffraction is hitting both pretty hard, but you still haven't lost anything for shooting the higher resolution sensor. Same is going to be true with the R5 and R6. People tend to interpret DLA as a hard limit when it simply is not.
> 
> Now if someone just doesn't need or care about higher resolution files, by all means save some money and give yourself a little extra room on shutter speed with the lower resolution model. 20-30mp is nothing to sneeze at. An R6 can handle most subject/print size combos easily. But the flip side is that higher resolution sensors are not crippled any time you're out without a tripod or have to stop down to f/11. If you want that level of detail for whatever reason (large prints; cropping; reach) it works very well.


I understand that under optimal circumstances details will grow with a higher resolution sensor, but in most cases not as much as the resolution grows. The problem is that chasing those best circumstances will influence your photography. While on a 20 megapixel sensor it might not make a difference if you do a photo hand held or with a tripod, you might notice a much bigger difference with 60 megapixels. As a result you might take your tripod with you much often. The same is true with exposure times. If at 20 megapixels not difference can be seen between 1/10 sec and 1/20 sec with IBIS, you might notice a difference at 60 megapixels. So you will not use 1/10 sec anymore. The same is true with depths of field. At 60 megapixels you might notice the background becoming less sharp. So you need a higher f-stop.

If I sometimes do a photo just for Instagram, I feel the comfort of only having to produce enough detail for 1.46 megapixels. At that resolution it is not very hard to take a sharp photo even at night without a tripod while you are moving. For example a night shot of a city from a moving ferris wheel. Basically everything works. A high resolution is the other extreme. If you really want a photo that makes use of that resolution and not only one that can compete with a 20 megapixel photo if you downsample it, you lose a lot of your photographic freedom. 

And again seeing two photos with different resolutions at the same "view size" is cheating. It basically means that you are downsampling the larger photo. Of course I could buy a 60 megapixel camera and then downsample all my photos to 20 megapixels, but then I would throw away image data and it is another step of work. 

You talked about "saving some money". I hope that high megapixel cameras do NOT cost more than the low megapixel models in future. That would be a bad sign suggesting that low megapixel bodies are somehow inferior. I always loved that in the DSLR world the most expensive Canon body had a lower resolution than even the cheap 2000D. I hope it stays that way. Of course I rather spend less money than more, but then people would argue that I only have the low resolution model, because I can't or don't want to pay the higher price.


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## Billybob (Jun 17, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Since the bat and ball are only in contact for about 1/2000 or less, even 30 fps is still a crap shoot.
> 
> I seem to have been misinformed regarding the α1 body's ability to track subjects between frames at 30 fps. I haven't seen one out in the wild anywhere. I have (briefly) a few times handled and shot the α9 and α9 II and they certainly are more limited when subject tracking between frames is required.
> 
> Even at 10 fps one can catch peak action. One just has to work harder and have better timing to get it. Some of us learned it back in the days of "blazing fast" 2.5 fps film winders.


Nice shots. 

Of course past success of someone skilled in the use of old tech is not an argument against using advanced tech. In fact, lol, your comment about baseball hitting seems to argue in favor of even greater burst rates!

Regardless, I remain impressed by Sony's ability to move that much data at 30fps with tracking AF. It is an amazing accomplishment. However, if one of the big three can give me 40MP frames at 20fps with excellent tracking AF--AF tracking accuracy on par with the a1--in a package with ergonomics that are superior to those of the a1 (let's start with an integrated grip), then I'm on board.


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## canonmike (Jun 17, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> The reason I stopped messing with them at all was due to the way CitiBank did back in 2001 after 9/11 and then the Antrax mailer.
> 
> Without telling anyone, they stockpiled their mail (including my payment that had been mailed two weeks before it was due) in a warehouse in Nevada claiming they couldn't open it due to the possibility of their workers being exposed to Anthrax. When my check had not cleared two days before it was due I called their customer service line and asked for a street address so I could FedEx them another check. The CSR assured me since I had never been late with a payment they would waive the late charge if it was a few days late. What he did not say was that they were going to jack my interest rate from 2.9% to 26%, report me to the credit bureaus for one late payment (that had been in their possession before it was due), and cause a domino effect on every card I carried going from low single digit interest rates to near 30%. Admittedly, at the time I had recently been on the verge of being overextended but with the low interest rates was on track to whittle the balances down in only 3-4 years until my interest rates ballooned and the minimum payments tripled yet still didn't even cover the interest at 26-28%.
> 
> ...


Yep, Michael, we have all heard these horror stories and given your experience, I can see why you have a sour taste in your mouth for any credit card. If that had been my experience, I would no doubt feel the same way. I don't carry any balances on credit cards and you can pay them on line now, from your checking account, so you no longer have to worry about lost checks, delayed mail, non-receipt, etc., etc. Over the last yr I have purchased over $10k worth of camera gear. When the Fed's decided the individual states could require merchants to charge sales tax on merchandise shipped out of their states, I, like everyone else, was not happy. My purchases amounted to $800.00 in sales tax, the amount of which was not required to be taxed for out of state shipments, until the ruling came down. So, enter B&H, with their Pay Boo card, last yr, offering every transaction through B&H crediting back your sales tax. This yr., I will probably be spending upwards of $20k on camera gear. In my state, that would require around $1600.00 sales tax be collected. That is not chump change, so as long as B&H continues this policy, I will take advantage of it, knowing I can purchase a lot of gear with that much money. I am not trying to change your mind, understanding your prior negative experience dictates how you now purchase your gear but, for some of us the Pay Boo system works great. Good luck to you and I understand your position, perfectly.


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## Czardoom (Jun 17, 2021)

Billybob said:


> Nice shots.
> 
> Of course past success of someone skilled in the use of old tech is not an argument against using advanced tech. In fact, lol, your comment about baseball hitting seems to argue in favor of even greater burst rates!
> 
> Regardless, I remain impressed by Sony's ability to move that much data at 30fps with tracking AF. It is an amazing accomplishment. However, if one of the big three can give me 40MP frames at 20fps with excellent tracking AF--AF tracking accuracy on par with the a1--in a package with ergonomics that are superior to those of the a1 (let's start with an integrated grip), then I'm on board.


While the A1 may be quite impressive by all accounts. according to the sources I have read, you won't get 30 FPS with tracking. To get 30 fps you need the compatible lenses along with these settings according to alphashooters.com:

You need to be shooting in compressed raw or jpeg file format.
Focus mode should be set to AF-C and drive mode to Hi+.
Electronic shutter speed between 1/250 – 1/32000 sec.
Priority Set in AF-C set to ‘Release’. The default is ‘Balanced Emphasis’. With it set to ‘Release’ the shutter will be released even if the subject is out of focus. With ‘Balanced Emphasis’ the camera tries to achieve a balance between focus and shutter release, however this reduces the maximum FPS slightly.
Use a focus mode other than tracking. If any of the tracking focus modes are used then you will not achieve the maximum FPS. So you’ll need to use a focus area like Wide or Zone instead.
And according to colbybrownphotography.com:

You have to be in compressed RAW or the JPEG file format (uncompress RAW or lossless compressed RAW has a maximum FPS of 20)
AF-C mode selected and Drive mode set to Hi+
Selection of an Electronic shutter and shutter speeds selected between 1/250th and 1/32000 of a sec
Priority Set in AF-C to Release (not balanced emphasis)
The “Tracking” AF modes will drop a few FPS, so try to stick with the other AF areas such as Zone or Wide.


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## st jack photography (Jun 17, 2021)

*For the price to come out right, any time you go faster on fps, you have to increase buffer size AND limit file size, which usually means low megapixels.* This is digital camera engineering 101. Faster fps trends towards action shooters and sports shooters, while slower fps allows for longer bursts and larger files, trending towards landscape shooters and commercial shooters.

30mp would be about right, considering that it is 30fps. The BSI probably allowed them to go from 30mp/10fps to the aggressive 30mp/30fps. People may remember that the 5DSr, which had a big jump in resolution and file size, had to take a huge hit in fps, and also they had to DOUBLE the DIGIC processors. ISO and video was 5Dm2 quality.

Even with all of the advances including BSI and extra lens contacts, it would be very unlikely for Canon to produce a 60mp camera that can do 60fps and 100-shot bursts in RAW.* They can probably do that at this point,* but the camera would cost an easy $10k, and at what size to dissipate the heat?

As far as 4, 6, or 8k goes, I would not look for them to do much. If I pay $6k on a R3 camera, by Jolly it better be still camera-focused and it better specialize in taking the types of stills I want to take, and forget about the video or how many Ks it does or C-Log or whatever.* If I want to do video, I will do it right and get a C body. If I want to v-blog, I'll go cheap and get an RP. *I would expect Canon to put out a half-crippled 5-series camera that does good video and good stills, but not great at either, with lousy ISO and lousy fps - a camera perfect for the peasants that require a camera to do both. To expect the R1 or R3 or R5S to do anything decent regarding video is outrageous and silly.


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## stevelee (Jun 17, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Since the bat and ball are only in contact for about 1/2000 or less, even 30 fps is still a crap shoot.


I have wondered about that sort of thing but haven’t tested it out. I feel more confident trusting in my ability to anticipate the peak of the action than in the luck of the camera’s hitting the right moment. Perhaps that is a delusion on my part, especially as my reflexes slow with age. And maybe I was more at one with my film camera years ago, and maybe the slight digital lag is not so predictable. But rational or not, that is how I feel. I use multiple shots for bracketing mainly.

i had my Rebel with me at a football game a few years back. I took a shot from the stands of a touchdown pass being caught. The official ruled that his feet landed behind the end zone. My picture showed the feet as they touched inside it. More telling was that the picture showed that the official was looking elsewhere when the feet landed.


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## Billybob (Jun 18, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> While the A1 may be quite impressive by all accounts. according to the sources I have read, you won't get 30 FPS with tracking. To get 30 fps you need the compatible lenses along with these settings according to alphashooters.com:
> 
> You need to be shooting in compressed raw or jpeg file format.
> Focus mode should be set to AF-C and drive mode to Hi+.
> ...


And how is that not 30fps with tracking? Note, tracking with the a1 is possible, actually preferred, with an AF mode other than "Tracking AF". 

We're talking about cutting-edge technology. Of course there are limitations (I'm impressed with the R5's 8k video with all its warts and limitations), but nonetheless with the right gear and the right settings you get 30fps with tracking (see my earlier post). As your quoted comment from CBP states or suggests, "Tracking" AF mode is not the correct setting to track a moving object at 30fps. But, nonetheless, with the right settings and right gear (are you shocked that 30fps is not possible with non-Sony lenses? I just know that it works with my 135GM and 200-600G lenses, the only lenses I have that I would want to work at that burst rate) you can track moving objects at 30fps with a high hit rate. 

Now, although I have Sony gear, I am not a Sony FB. Although I'm impressed with what Sony has accomplished with the a1, I'm not in the market to purchase one. I grabbed the R5 on release and love it. I want to add a body with a stacked sensor for the faster and more accurate AF and would prefer that camera be a Canon. I'll see what the R3 and Nikon Z9 offer. Perhaps I'll wait for the R1. I currently don't have enough information to make that decision. Thus, even though I prefer Canon--Canon will eventually get there--it does not stop me from admiring what Sony has accomplished. Should I ignore or denied Sony's achievement simply because I'm invested in Canon? I don't think so.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 18, 2021)

canonmike said:


> When the Fed's decided the individual states could require merchants to charge sales tax on merchandise shipped out of their states, I, like everyone else, was not happy. My purchases amounted to $800.00 in sales tax, the amount of which was not required to be taxed for out of state shipments, until the ruling came down.


In general states don’t charge ‘sales tax’, they charge Sales and Use Tax. Anything you purchased from out of state was almost certainly subject to a use tax by your state, and you were supposed to declare such purchases on your state tax return each and were responsible for paying that tax to your state at the time you filed the return. In other words, to be blunt, until the law was changed you were committing tax fraud by buying out-of-state products and not paying use tax on them. You were never caught, but it was still tax fraud and thus illegal.

Now, when you buy some thing through the normal purchase process from B&H, you’re not paying New Jersey sales tax, B&H is collecting whatever tax you are supposed to pay to your own state and then remitting that amount to your state on your behalf. With the PayBoo card, B&H is still paying your state use tax on your behalf, they’re just not passing the cost along to you (it’s ultimately paid by the aggregate interest collected on the credit card accounts).


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## stevelee (Jun 18, 2021)

They have to call it something else since tariffs on interstate commerce are not legal or maybe even constitutional.


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## canonmike (Jun 18, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> In general states don’t charge ‘sales tax’, they charge Sales and Use Tax. Anything you purchased from out of state was almost certainly subject to a use tax by your state, and you were supposed to declare such purchases on your state tax return each and were responsible for paying that tax to your state at the time you filed the return. In other words, to be blunt, until the law was changed you were committing tax fraud by buying out-of-state products and not paying use tax on them. You were never caught, but it was still tax fraud and thus illegal.
> 
> Now, when you buy some thing through the normal purchase process from B&H, you’re not paying New Jersey sales tax, B&H is collecting whatever tax you are supposed to pay to your own state and then remitting that amount to your state on your behalf. With the PayBoo card, B&H is still paying your state use tax on your behalf, they’re just not passing the cost along to you (it’s ultimately paid by the aggregate interest collected on the credit card accounts).


No doubt, you are technically correct, Neuroanatomist but I don't really care about the mechanics of the transaction. The fact is, no other company besides B&H's PayBoo card, that I know of, does this and I take full advantage of it. Now, as to the tax fraud comment, one would then infer you always filed a tax and use return, thus avoiding tax fraud as you refer to it, every time you purchased camera gear from out of state. Very commendable on your part. Attaboy!!! For the record, I never minded buying locally and paying sales tax but due to local camera stores closing their doors, I ultimately was forced into purchasing my gear on line. Sadly, there are no camera stores within 50 mi of our home, not one. So, instead of visiting a local store for that hands on experience, I have to rely on social media platforms for pertinent information. I so envy those living close enough to visit stores like B&H, Adorama, Samy's or whomever, wherever, where you can speak with informed sales help personally, helping you to make a much more informed decision. For years, I drove to Atlanta and supported stores like Crown Camera, Wolf Camera and a handful of smaller local camera merchants, sadly all of which are now out of business. Best Buy is the only store that I can visit to purchase very limited Canon gear inventory and their sales people have only basic knowledge of the equipment they are selling, across all brands.


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## emailfortom (Jun 18, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> In general states don’t charge ‘sales tax’, they charge Sales and Use Tax. Anything you purchased from out of state was almost certainly subject to a use tax by your state, and you were supposed to declare such purchases on your state tax return each and were responsible for paying that tax to your state at the time you filed the return. In other words, to be blunt, until the law was changed you were committing tax fraud by buying out-of-state products and not paying use tax on them. You were never caught, but it was still tax fraud and thus illegal.
> 
> Now, when you buy some thing through the normal purchase process from B&H, you’re not paying New Jersey sales tax, B&H is collecting whatever tax you are supposed to pay to your own state and then remitting that amount to your state on your behalf. With the PayBoo card, B&H is still paying your state use tax on your behalf, they’re just not passing the cost along to you (it’s ultimately paid by the aggregate interest collected on the credit card accounts).


I am glad you posted your remarks about use tax. Same here in Pennsylvania


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## Czardoom (Jun 18, 2021)

Billybob said:


> And how is that not 30fps with tracking? Note, tracking with the a1 is possible, actually preferred, with an AF mode other than "Tracking AF".
> 
> We're talking about cutting-edge technology. Of course there are limitations (I'm impressed with the R5's 8k video with all its warts and limitations), but nonetheless with the right gear and the right settings you get 30fps with tracking (see my earlier post). As your quoted comment from CBP states or suggests, "Tracking" AF mode is not the correct setting to track a moving object at 30fps. But, nonetheless, with the right settings and right gear (are you shocked that 30fps is not possible with non-Sony lenses? I just know that it works with my 135GM and 200-600G lenses, the only lenses I have that I would want to work at that burst rate) you can track moving objects at 30fps with a high hit rate.
> 
> Now, although I have Sony gear, I am not a Sony FB. Although I'm impressed with what Sony has accomplished with the a1, I'm not in the market to purchase one. I grabbed the R5 on release and love it. I want to add a body with a stacked sensor for the faster and more accurate AF and would prefer that camera be a Canon. I'll see what the R3 and Nikon Z9 offer. Perhaps I'll wait for the R1. I currently don't have enough information to make that decision. Thus, even though I prefer Canon--Canon will eventually get there--it does not stop me from admiring what Sony has accomplished. Should I ignore or denied Sony's achievement simply because I'm invested in Canon? I don't think so.


It appears that you are using the term tracking as in, "I am tracking an object." I think you can understand that this might be confusing to some (me, certainly) when cameras today have a mode specifically named "tracking." And in this specific mode, you won't get 30 fps. So, basically - despite it being confusing - you are saying that you are tracking an object using an AF mode other than tracking. Or am I more confused than I thought??


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## Billybob (Jun 18, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> It appears that you are using the term tracking as in, "I am tracking an object." I think you can understand that this might be confusing to some (me, certainly) when cameras today have a mode specifically named "tracking." And in this specific mode, you won't get 30 fps. So, basically - despite it being confusing - you are saying that you are tracking an object using an AF mode other than tracking. Or am I more confused than I thought??


Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

The reviews you referenced and the review I referenced (Mark Galer) all document that the a1 fails to achieve 30fps in "tracking AF mode". However, if you define "tracking" as following a moving object from one location to another while maintaining focus during this period, then the a1 is able to track moving objects at 30fps with a very high hit rate. 

Yes, it is confusing and clearly unintuitive that achieving tracking requires the photographer to avoid "tracking mode". Sony apparently provides _no_ guidance, and only reviewers and experienced users who have spent time with the camera understand the issue. I suspect that Sony has lost sales and, perhaps, received multiple returns from buyers/users who are unaware of this operational peculiarity. It's also likely the reason why many believe the camera is incapable of 30fps when it is, in fact, capable albeit with stringent requirements (certain Sony lenses and camera settings).


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## Michael Clark (Jun 21, 2021)

stevelee said:


> I have wondered about that sort of thing but haven’t tested it out. I feel more confident trusting in my ability to anticipate the peak of the action than in the luck of the camera’s hitting the right moment. Perhaps that is a delusion on my part, especially as my reflexes slow with age. And maybe I was more at one with my film camera years ago, and maybe the slight digital lag is not so predictable. But rational or not, that is how I feel. I use multiple shots for bracketing mainly.
> 
> i had my Rebel with me at a football game a few years back. I took a shot from the stands of a touchdown pass being caught. The official ruled that his feet landed behind the end zone. My picture showed the feet as they touched inside it. More telling was that the picture showed that the official was looking elsewhere when the feet landed.



Yeah. But no matter how good your timing is, at some point enough fps can tilt the odds in favor of random machine-gunning. Consider something like 8000 fps video. No one has timing accurate to 1/8000, and even if they did, even bodies like the α1, future R1, future Z1, 1D X, etc. aren't consistent from shot to shot to within 1/8000 (0.125 microseconds) in terms of shutter lag.


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## Michael Clark (Jun 21, 2021)

stevelee said:


> I have wondered about that sort of thing but haven’t tested it out. I feel more confident trusting in my ability to anticipate the peak of the action than in the luck of the camera’s hitting the right moment. Perhaps that is a delusion on my part, especially as my reflexes slow with age. And maybe I was more at one with my film camera years ago, and maybe the slight digital lag is not so predictable. But rational or not, that is how I feel. I use multiple shots for bracketing mainly.
> 
> i had my Rebel with me at a football game a few years back. I took a shot from the stands of a touchdown pass being caught. The official ruled that his feet landed behind the end zone. My picture showed the feet as they touched inside it. More telling was that the picture showed that the official was looking elsewhere when the feet landed.



This play late in the third quarter was ruled a touchdown. Notice the ball was already falling out and next to the runner's knee when he was at the 2 yard line in the second frame. In the third frame only the top of the runner's helmet has crossed the goal line and his hands are empty. The fourth frame shows the player on the ground to far left covering the ball as the runner's body finally crosses the goal line. The ball is even clearer in the fifth frame. The sixth is an extreme crop of the far left of the fifth frame. When the players got up after the play, the defender in the black jersey had the ball. The game ended with the team in the white jerseys winning 13-10.


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## stevelee (Jun 21, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> Yeah. But no matter how good your timing is, at some point enough fps can tilt the odds in favor of random machine-gunning. Consider something like 8000 fps video. No one has timing accurate to 1/8000, and even if they did, even bodies like the α1, future R1, future Z1, 1D X, etc. aren't consistent from shot to shot to within 1/8000 (0.125 microseconds) in terms of shutter lag.


I would suggest that the point would come a long time before that. My 6D2 is more on the order of 6.5 FPS, so I trust myself more in some circumstances. I don’t shoot sports that often anyway. Since I live near a college, in normal times I attend a lot of sports (and concerts, plays, and lectures—why I chose to retire here, after all). When I get a new camera, I’m likely to take it to a game and shoot pictures in part to get used to using it. I took the football shot with my T3i. I used the cheap 75-300mm lens. I was surprised that 75mm on a crop camera was too long, even from the stands, to take some of the pictures I wanted to, especially the video that shows the whole lineup and movement.

When I got the G5X II, I took it to a game and got surprisingly good video. I was trying out the 4K mostly. There was a VIP area behind an end zone, and I was there. Even video of plays on the other end of the field looked great. Obviously our touchdown near me looked even better. I got used to the camera, but on my travels in Europe shortly thereafter, I shot no video at all.


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## melgross (Jun 22, 2021)

stevelee said:


> And people tend to compare European prices that include VAT to American prices without sales tax, so it looks even worse.


True. But a number of states have have no sales tax, and many have only 1-3%. It’s easy to evade the higher taxes if you just go to a state right next door and buy it there.


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## melgross (Jun 22, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Can you provide a link showing a combined CFe type B/SD card slot? either existing camera or OEM part?


I read it in a trade article more than two months ago. I can’t remember where the article was. Trying to find it seems impossible because entering dual slot just seems to come up with dual slot readers.


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## melgross (Jun 22, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> No didn't revela res, just we know it has to be a minimum of 39MP for 8K (7840 x 4320) or 42MP for DCI 8K, which no one but CAnon seems to use. I doubt it will be less than the D850 res.


Sure, it needs to be around 40mp, as I said earlier. Other than that, we don’t know. It could be 40, or 45, or even 50. Just guesses.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 22, 2021)

melgross said:


> True. But a number of states he have no sales tax, and many have only 1-3%. It’s easy to evade the higher taxes if you just go to a state right next door and buy it there.


Indeed, and that's why many people in MA travel a bit north to NH (where there is no sales tax) for major purchases. However, that doesn't exempt them from the use tax, if the item is bought with an intent to use it in MA people are still required to declare such purchases and pay the sales/use tax when they file their annual state tax return (not that most people do, but just like the fact that most people drive a bit over the speed limit, it's still illegal).

In fact, MA took a tire chain to court a decade ago over that issue, arguing that if a car had MA plates, tires put on the car in NH were intended for use in MA and subject to the use tax. MA lost the court case, not because the tax isn't due but because MA could not force an out-of-state retailer to collect taxes on their behalf. But that situation changed with the Supreme Court ruling in 2018, that allowed states to require out-of-state businesses to collect sales tax on items shipped to their residents.


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## SteveC (Jun 22, 2021)

melgross said:


> True. But a number of states have have no sales tax, and many have only 1-3%. It’s easy to evade the higher taxes if you just go to a state right next door and buy it there.



Not everyone lives near a state line. It's a 2+ hour drive for me to any of four different state lines, perhaps 3 hours to a fourth one, 4 1/2 hours to the one furthest away. And when I get to those lines, I'm basically that far away from a sizeable town I could make a major purchase in...that town being the one I just left.


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## stevelee (Jun 22, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Not everyone lives near a state line. It's a 2+ hour drive for me to any of four different state lines, perhaps 3 hours to a fourth one, 4 1/2 hours to the one furthest away. And when I get to those lines, I'm basically that far away from a sizeable town I could make a major purchase in...that town being the one I just left.


I live just over 30 miles from a state line, but their tax rates are similar to ours. Plus it seems unlikely that there are camera stores in Rock Hill, SC, that carry a broad enough selection of equipment to be worth the trip.


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## ColorBlindBat (Jun 23, 2021)

stevelee said:


> I live just over 30 miles from a state line, but their tax rates are similar to ours. Plus it seems unlikely that there are camera stores in Rock Hill, SC, that carry a broad enough selection of equipment to be worth the trip.


Save the drive distance and time.

Get a PayBoo card through B&H Photography, purchase what you want with it, and then the sales tax will be paid by B&H as an instant discount.


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## Peter Bergh (Jun 23, 2021)

melgross said:


> True. But a number of states have have no sales tax, and many have only 1-3%. It’s easy to evade the higher taxes if you just go to a state right next door and buy it there.


Yes, but in doing so you need to factor in the cost of the trip. In my case, the nearest state is some three to four hours away by car. Thus, for the trip to the next state to be economically justifiable, I would have to save some 250 miles times two (there and back) times 55 cents per mile, or some $270. (This calculation makes the assumption that the store I wish to visit is just across the state line.) It would have to be a pretty large purchase to make a sales-tax profit on such a trip. Furthermore, my state collects, or attempts to collect, a use tax on out-of-state purchases. Thus, if I completely comply with the law, such a trip would always result in a net loss, even if I could walk to the next state.


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## [email protected] (Jun 23, 2021)

AlanF said:


> It was with half battery: Canon's ES fps doesn't slow down with battery drain. The SD card is more than fast enough for a 21 shot burst - the cache on the R5 is about 2Gb or 40 shots of full RAW. But, that's beside the point - the camera has a CFExpress slot. Complaining that everything has to be right to get maximum performance is like complaining your car doesn't get the stated mpg when driving up hill.



Canon indicates that their OEM batteries will give you top frames per second until they're about a third used up. BUT, tests show that they actually provide that performance for two thirds of their capacity. Third party LP-e6NH batteries do indeed have the full-performance for only one third of their capacity.


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## cayenne (Jun 23, 2021)

canonmike said:


> I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.


Yup.

I don't buy anything that I don't have cash in hand to pay for.
Even with things like on Amazon, where they give you 12 or more months interest free to pay...I have the cash to buy it outright. I"ll do it on the installment plan and put that cash in a savings account and draw at least a little interest on it.

But that sales tax savings is a KILLER....it is darned near 10% down here where I live...so, when you buy $10K worth of stuff....that's saving me a significant amount of money.

I tend not to be the type to buy a bunch of little stuff all the time...I sit and plan and SAVE for months or years at a time....and when I have the cash, I drop serious coin on something I want.


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## AlanF (Jun 23, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Canon indicates that their OEM batteries will give you top frames per second until they're about a third used up. BUT, tests show that they actually provide that performance for two thirds of their capacity. Third party LP-e6NH batteries do indeed have the full-performance for only one third of their capacity.


Your tests, for which we are very grateful, are mainly stated for the mechanical shutter. What is the observed decrease in frame rate for electronic shutter with battery charge?


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## privatebydesign (Jun 23, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Canon indicates that their OEM batteries will give you top frames per second until they're about a third used up. BUT, tests show that they actually provide that performance for two thirds of their capacity. Third party LP-e6NH batteries do indeed have the full-performance for only one third of their capacity.


I use LP-E19’s in the 1DX II, the same battery that is in the R3. I haven’t conducted stringent tests but don’t notice a fps drop off even when they are very low on charge. I also have a 3 year old battery that has been recharged hundreds of times and gave me over 2,500 shots the other day before being unable to power the camera on.

I think those that are not used to the 1 series battery, but still appreciate battery performance, are going to be blown away by the R3.


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## melgross (Jun 23, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Indeed, and that's why many people in MA travel a bit north to NH (where there is no sales tax) for major purchases. However, that doesn't exempt them from the use tax, if the item is bought with an intent to use it in MA people are still required to declare such purchases and pay the sales/use tax when they file their annual state tax return (not that most people do, but just like the fact that most people drive a bit over the speed limit, it's still illegal).
> 
> In fact, MA took a tire chain to court a decade ago over that issue, arguing that if a car had MA plates, tires put on the car in NH were intended for use in MA and subject to the use tax. MA lost the court case, not because the tax isn't due but because MA could not force an out-of-state retailer to collect taxes on their behalf. But that situation changed with the Supreme Court ruling in 2018, that allowed states to require out-of-state businesses to collect sales tax on items shipped to their residents.


Well, nobody does that. In fact, for a camera, it’s insane. Is that tax in MA just for people living there as their main residence? Who can say where it’s being used? Maybe you live there but bought it to use in your studio in another state. Who is going to look into that?


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## melgross (Jun 23, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Not everyone lives near a state line. It's a 2+ hour drive for me to any of four different state lines, perhaps 3 hours to a fourth one, 4 1/2 hours to the one furthest away. And when I get to those lines, I'm basically that far away from a sizeable town I could make a major purchase in...that town being the one I just left.


Of course, but if you’re avoiding a couple hundred bucks, or more, on taxes, you might be persuaded to travel that hour each way. Many people travel a lot more than that to work and back five days a week.


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## melgross (Jun 23, 2021)

Peter Bergh said:


> Yes, but in doing so you need to factor in the cost of the trip. In my case, the nearest state is some three to four hours away by car. Thus, for the trip to the next state to be economically justifiable, I would have to save some 250 miles times two (there and back) times 55 cents per mile, or some $270. (This calculation makes the assumption that the store I wish to visit is just across the state line.) It would have to be a pretty large purchase to make a sales-tax profit on such a trip. Furthermore, my state collects, or attempts to collect, a use tax on out-of-state purchases. Thus, if I completely comply with the law, such a trip would always result in a net loss, even if I could walk to the next state.


Sure. I’m not saying it’s worthwhile for everyone. It depends on your tax rate where you are. Here in NYC it’s around 9%. In at least parts of Maryland it’s around 11% so for a $3,900 camera, the R5, and one lens, say $1,000, we’re talking about $500 in sales tax between the two states, as an average.

that’s well beyond what someone would spend for the trip. And it depends on how important that savings is. To some, it means a lot, while to others, not much.

again, who really pays a use tax for purchases such as a camera?


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## stevelee (Jun 23, 2021)

melgross said:


> again, who really pays a use tax for purchases such as a camera?


Those who obey the law.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 23, 2021)

melgross said:


> Well, nobody does that. In fact, for a camera, it’s insane. Is that tax in MA just for people living there as their main residence? Who can say where it’s being used? Maybe you live there but bought it to use in your studio in another state. Who is going to look into that?


No one is going to look into it, but it's illegal and more importantly it represents a significant loss of revenue for state governments. That's why MA sued Town Fair Tire, though they lost at the state level). That's also why SD sued Wayfair, a case which went up to the SCOTUS and led to the 2018 ruling that resulted in online retailers collecting use taxes from buyers with residences in any of the 45 states (and DC) that levy a sales/use tax.



melgross said:


> again, who really pays a use tax for purchases such as a camera?


Since 2018, anyone who buys one from any retailer in the US, unless you live in one of the 5 states that have no sales tax (or unless you travel to one of those states and buy the camera in a brick-and-mortar store, and then choose to break the law by not reporting that purchase when you file your state tax return).


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## AlanF (Jun 23, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> No one is going to look into it, but it's illegal and more importantly it represents a significant loss of revenue for state governments. That's why MA sued Town Fair Tire, though they lost at the state level). That's also why SD sued Wayfair, a case which went up to the SCOTUS and led to the 2018 ruling that resulted in online retailers collecting use taxes from buyers with residences in any of the 45 states (and DC) that levy a sales/use tax.
> 
> 
> Since 2018, anyone who buys one from any retailer in the US, unless you live in one of the 5 states that have no sales tax (or unless you travel to one of those states and buy the camera in a brick-and-mortar store, and then choose to break the law by not reporting that purchase when you file your state tax return).


Sad news, John McAfee just reported as having committed suicide in Spain because under threat for extradition to USA on tax evasion charges. According to the BBC, in 2019 Mr McAfee expressed his disdain for taxes, tweeting that he had not filed tax returns for eight years because "taxation is illegal."


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## Ozarker (Jun 23, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> No one is going to look into it, but it's illegal and more importantly it represents a significant loss of revenue for state governments. That's why MA sued Town Fair Tire, though they lost at the state level). That's also why SD sued Wayfair, a case which went up to the SCOTUS and led to the 2018 ruling that resulted in online retailers collecting use taxes from buyers with residences in any of the 45 states (and DC) that levy a sales/use tax.
> 
> 
> Since 2018, anyone who buys one from any retailer in the US, unless you live in one of the 5 states that have no sales tax (or unless you travel to one of those states and buy the camera in a brick-and-mortar store, and then choose to break the law by not reporting that purchase when you file your state tax return).


Another one of the laws that can be used to get someone if nothing else will stick. Arbitrary, yes. But not unprecedented. There are many such laws. Capone comes to mind.


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## arbitrage (Jun 24, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Your tests, for which we are very grateful, are mainly stated for the mechanical shutter. What is the observed decrease in frame rate for electronic shutter with battery charge?


The ES never drops out of 20FPS because of battery life. There can be some other factors (Canon lists them in the manual) that can end up not achieving the full 20FPS but it isn't a standardized drop with indicated icons like in MS/EFCS.

I found the MS/EFCS drop out of 12FPS to be very variable. Some days I had it drop at as high as ~70% remaining charge and then other days it would only drop at around 36% remaining charge. When it did drop at a higher charge I could sometimes switch the camera off and back on and it would go back to 12FPS. But usually would drop out again shortly after. This was all with geniune Canon LP-E6NH batteries. With 3rd party NH batteries the drop always occurred a bit earlier but some days would still go into the low 40% charge remaining before dropping. 3rd party batteries were more inconsistent than OEM.


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## AlanF (Jun 24, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> The ES never drops out of 20FPS because of battery life. There can be some other factors (Canon lists them in the manual) that can end up not achieving the full 20FPS but it isn't a standardized drop with indicated icons like in MS/EFCS.
> 
> I found the MS/EFCS drop out of 12FPS to be very variable. Some days I had it drop at as high as ~70% remaining charge and then other days it would only drop at around 36% remaining charge. When it did drop at a higher charge I could sometimes switch the camera off and back on and it would go back to 12FPS. But usually would drop out again shortly after. This was all with geniune Canon LP-E6NH batteries. With 3rd party NH batteries the drop always occurred a bit earlier but some days would still go into the low 40% charge remaining before dropping. 3rd party batteries were more inconsistent than OEM.


Thanks, that is what I thought and remembered from you, but I couldn't track it down. My R5 never seems to drop from 20fps in ES but I don't like making claims unless I am sure of my facts.


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## melgross (Jun 27, 2021)

stevelee said:


> Those who obey the law.


In other words, almost nobody.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 8, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> 30MP from 20MP is insignificant from a resolution perspective. You would need "appoximetly" 60MP.
> 
> If the objective is better IQ... This puppy at 30MP is a distraction until the R1


I’ve had this discussion before and found it to not be true. Rather than look at it from a linear resolution perspective I look at 20mp ‘low resolution’ sensors as 20 million data point sensors, a 30mp sensor gives me 50% more data. When you are coming from 20mp that 50% extra data is noticeable and is useful, far more so than a jump from 45 to 60, for instance.


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## GoldWing (Jul 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’ve had this discussion before and found it to not be true. Rather than look at it from a linear resolution perspective I look at 20mp ‘low resolution’ sensors as 20 million data point sensors, a 30mp sensor gives me 50% more data. When you are coming from 20mp that 50% extra data is noticeable and is useful, far more so than a jump from 45 to 60, for instance.


Rellity is that double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII is 85MP. Just a simple fact.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 8, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Rellity is that double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII is 85MP. Just a simple fact.


Only if you’re a purely linear thinker in a one-dimensional reality.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 8, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Rellity is that double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII is 85MP. Just a simple fact.


As neuro points out far more succinctly than I could, if you look at your two dimensional picture in a single dimension and ignore the fact that 50% more pixels is still 50% more. And also add in the fact that ‘double the resolution’ has little to no meaning in the context of 99.9% of images you might have a point.

I recently saw some of my images from a 20mp camera printed at 40”x30” and they were faultless. Even at eye to print level there was no lose of detail and zero pixilation. I have to be honest I don’t know how it was done but I was very very impressed. I used to think I wanted lots of mp, now, personally, having seen what can be done professionally with 20 and high quality lenses, I don’t.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> As neuro points out far more succinctly than I could,


I bet goldmember only uses the single row marquee selection tool when editing in PS.


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## GoldWing (Jul 8, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Only if you’re a purely linear thinker in a one-dimensional reality.


When we do studio work for Sports and Swimwear Fashion we're shooting at 100mp. And you can clearly see the difference. It is substantial and detailed beyond any 20mp camera. Getting a sports photographer to beleive that he does not want or need more resolution, when they want it, is almost insulting. The R1 will allow users to govern fps in context of file size. For those who don't want the additional resolution, they can by a 20mp camera but why prohibit a professional sports photographer from being able to use their equipment for multiple purposes if you're willing to pay for the tool? Technology is such that this is a reality. The only factor here is lag and bloom even at 240 in an EVF there is lag. There are also issues with direct sun. Canon has not to date, stated or listed patents that reflect these EVF vs OVF optimization. 85mp at 15fps is not the issue


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 8, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> When we do studio work for Sports and Swimwear Fashion we're shooting at 100mp. And you can clearly see the difference. It is substantial and detailed beyond any 20mp camera.


The earth is round. 1 + 1 = 2. Shall we share a few more completely obvious bits of information?


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## privatebydesign (Jul 8, 2021)

What makes me laugh is Canon are not, despite many peoples opinions, idiots. Even up until the 1DX III they were pretty sure the pro sports market, which for us is an indeterminate size, was pretty happy with the 20mp sensor.

For all the faux outrage lets not forget the Nikon D6 is 21mp and the Sony A9 II is 24mp. Canon have said quite clearly they made the 1DX III 20mp *after* speaking with their target market.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 8, 2021)

I've done plenty of pro studio sports shoots with 20mp. The images have been turned into banners and reproduced at all kinds of sizes with no issue at all. Now I know I am not everybody, and I am not saying because I don't have a need for it nobody should, but I'd like to see the uses for 100mp studio sports images where the increased resolution is actually adding to anything other than the file size and a few behind the scenes peoples egos.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I've done plenty of pro studio sports shoots with 20mp. The images have been turned into banners and reproduced at all kinds of sizes with no issue at all. Now I know I am not everybody, and I am not saying because I don't have a need for it nobody should, but I'd like to see the uses for 100mp studio sports images where the increased resolution is actually adding to anything other than the file size and a few behind the scenes peoples egos.


I heard that the number of eyelashes an athlete has is an important predictor of performance. Maybe that's why 100 MP is necessary.


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## Sporgon (Jul 8, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I heard that the number of eyelashes an athlete has is an important predictor of performance. Maybe that's why 100 MP is necessary.


Actually, at that distance with a good lens I bet FF 20mp isn’t far off resolving the eyelashes.


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## cayenne (Jul 9, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I've done plenty of pro studio sports shoots with 20mp. The images have been turned into banners and reproduced at all kinds of sizes with no issue at all. Now I know I am not everybody, and I am not saying because I don't have a need for it nobody should, but I'd like to see the uses for 100mp studio sports images where the increased resolution is actually adding to anything other than the file size and a few behind the scenes peoples egos.
> 
> View attachment 198838


Wow....cool image there PBD!!


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## Sporgon (Jul 9, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I've done plenty of pro studio sports shoots with 20mp. The images have been turned into banners and reproduced at all kinds of sizes with no issue at all. Now I know I am not everybody, and I am not saying because I don't have a need for it nobody should, but I'd like to see the uses for 100mp studio sports images where the increased resolution is actually adding to anything other than the file size and a few behind the scenes peoples egos.
> 
> View attachment 198838


That’s a great shot Private, but in all honesty I prefer Martin Elliott’s  
(God rest his soul poor guy).


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## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2021)

cayenne said:


> Wow....cool image there PBD!!


Thanks.

I've got hundreds of them from a series I did with the same lighting a few years back. Though I'd agree some of the subjects are easier on the eye than others...


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## dilbert (Aug 24, 2021)

Just wondering, how many announcements do we need about the announcement?


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2021)

dilbert said:


> Just wondering, how many announcements do we need about the announcement?


At least one more.


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## slclick (Aug 24, 2021)

Maybe if someone asks if the exif data was manipulated on the protos we can eeek out another 100 posts....


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## maulanawale (Aug 24, 2021)

slclick said:


> Maybe if someone asks if the exif data was manipulated on the protos we can eeek out another 100 posts....


But it was, wasn't it?


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## SteveC (Aug 25, 2021)

slclick said:


> Maybe if someone asks if the exif data was manipulated on the protos we can eeek out another 100 posts....





maulanawale said:


> But it was, wasn't it?



Read what slclick said before answering this question: are you asking?


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Read what slclick said before answering this question: are you asking?


Forgive me for answering the (implied) question with a question.


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## maulanawale (Aug 25, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Read what slclick said before answering this question: are you asking?


I was only joking.


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## slclick (Aug 25, 2021)

So we squoze out 4.At least we will always have APS-H


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## Ozarker (Aug 25, 2021)

slclick said:


> Maybe if someone asks if the exif data was manipulated on the protos we can eeek out another 100 posts....


The DR. Why isn't anyone talking about DR anymore? What the hell is happening?!


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The DR. Why isn't anyone talking about DR anymore? What the hell is happening?!


Pay attention. This whole thread and several others have been all about Digital Resolution.

Or maybe you meant something else?


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## slclick (Aug 25, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Pay attention. This whole thread and several others have been all about Digital Resolution.
> 
> Or maybe you meant something else?


I loved my visit to the DR, especially meeting the people as we drove around and their sharing the mamajuana. Google it, before you jump to conclusions. I shot with an M5 while there btw.


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## Ozarker (Aug 25, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I heard that the number of eyelashes an athlete has is an important predictor of performance. Maybe that's why 100 MP is necessary.


Hairy eyes rule, dude. The 100mp is for the pits... and the Norwegian handball team.


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## cayenne (Aug 26, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Hairy eyes rule, dude. The 100mp is for the pits... and the Norwegian handball team.


The lady's team?


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## Ozarker (Aug 26, 2021)

cayenne said:


> The lady's team?


Ohhhh yeahhhhh....


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