# More Detailed Specifications for the Canon EOS 6D Mark II



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 26, 2017)

```
<strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Specifications</strong> (Google Translated)</p>
<ul>
<li>Number of effective pixels: 26.2 million pixels (total number of pixels: 27.1 million pixels)</li>
<li>DIGIC 7</li>
<li>45 points AF – All Crosstype</li>
<li>Dual pixel CMOS AF</li>
<li>7560 pixels RGB + IR metering sensor</li>
<li>Viewfinder: 98% coverage</li>
<li>Viewfinder magnification: 0.71x</li>
<li>Continuous: Up to 6.5 frames / sec (up to about 4 frames / sec when servo AF is set for Live View shooting)</li>
<li>Standard ISO: 100 – 40000 (extended ISO: 50 [L], 51200 [H 1], 102400 [H 2])</li>
<li>Shutter speed: 1/4000 to 30 seconds</li>
<li>Sync Speed 1/180</li>
<li>Video: Full HD 60p</li>
<li>5 Axis Electronic Image Stabilization</li>
<li>Time lapse movie (4K output)</li>
<li>Anti-flicker</li>
<li>Wi-Fi</li>
<li>Bluetooth</li>
<li>NFC</li>
<li>GPS</li>
<li>Electronic level</li>
<li>Battery: LP-E6N / LP-E6</li>
<li>Number of pictures per charge: Approx. 1200 pictures (when viewfinder shooting)</li>
<li>Media: SD / SDHC / SDXC card (UHS-I card compatible)</li>
<li>Size: 144.0 x 110.5 x 74.8 mm</li>
<li>Weight: 685 g (body only), 765 g (including battery and SD card)</li>
<li>Kit lens: “EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM”, “EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM”, “EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM”</li>
</ul>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
<div style="font-size:0px;height:0px;line-height:0px;margin:0;padding:0;clear:both"></div>
```


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## ScottyP (Jun 26, 2017)

I can't believe they couldn't give a 1/200th sync speed. If they are at 1/18, and if all their other shutters are 1/200th it seems an unnecessary bit of skimpage but oh well. I'll still buy it.


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## Attero (Jun 26, 2017)

I cant belive it still has only UHS-I interface, thats to sad. With UHS-II ML could unleash the beast out of the 6d2. Lets just hope that the new sensor have some major SNR improvments over the last on, at least 1 Stop or so.

Thats aside, for 1999$ starting price its seems to be a realy nice FF entry camera.


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## pwp (Jun 26, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> 5 Axis Electronic Image Stabilization


Errrm, are we talking IBIS here? If so, I'm genuinely excited, not just for this camera but for future Canon releases too.

-pw


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## jolyonralph (Jun 26, 2017)

pwp said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 5 Axis Electronic Image Stabilization
> ...



It'll be the same as other recently Canon cameras, for video only.


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## nightscape123 (Jun 26, 2017)

How can canon possibly justify uhs1 in 2017. There is no reason for that except to deliberately cripple the camera. I guess this is their way of preventing ML from making the camera useful.


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## Don Haines (Jun 26, 2017)

What do they mean by 1200 storable pictures? Is that an internal storage buffer?


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## wildwalker (Jun 26, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> How can canon possibly justify uhs1 in 2017. There is no reason for that except to deliberately cripple the camera. I guess this is their way of preventing ML from making the camera useful.



Surely Canon decided that UHS-1 was all that was needed for the data rate of 6.5FPS stills or 1080p60 video (at whatever bitrate it will be).

Why use anything else if it's not required?


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## NaviUy (Jun 26, 2017)

Anyone have a good guess at what the 24-70mm f4 kit is going to be priced at? ;D


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## wildwalker (Jun 26, 2017)

Can't wait to buy one. Wex, LCE nor Jessops taking pre-orders yet


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## schmidtfilme (Jun 26, 2017)

Is there a FF nanoUSM or STM that performs great AF during video?


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## JMKE (Jun 26, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> What do they mean by 1200 storable pictures? Is that an internal storage buffer?


The number of pictures on one fully charged battery. Approx. the same as with the 6D1.


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## canonic (Jun 26, 2017)

Not funny ...


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## Bernard (Jun 26, 2017)

It would be a great camera if it offered interchangeable screens.
Without that feature, it's an SLR that can't be focused by eye. About as useful as a chocolate teapot.


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## Dutchy (Jun 26, 2017)

Has there been any mention on the overlay in the viewfinder? When I first moved from the 7D to the 6D I really missed the customisable grid lines the 7D has in the see-through LCD screen in the view finder. 

I solved that by getting the focusing screen for the 6D, which has the grid lines permanently in the viewfinder. I'd love it if the 6DII would have the 7D LCD solution.


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## rfdesigner (Jun 26, 2017)

Still no detail on 720p frame rate

120fps pleeeeeeeeeeeeese


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## pokerz (Jun 26, 2017)

Attero said:


> I cant belive it still has only UHS-I interface, thats to sad. With UHS-II ML could unleash the beast out of the 6d2. Lets just hope that the new sensor have some major SNR improvments over the last on, at least 1 Stop or so.
> 
> Thats aside, for 1999$ starting price its seems to be a realy nice FF entry camera.


ML never works on Dual Pixel cameras.
just forget it


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 26, 2017)

On the stills front that is a pretty wonderful spec list, and, like the 6D1, there are a few notable advantages over the 5D Mark IV.

1) Higher native ISO range (40K vs 32K)
2) Ability to output 4K timelapses + 5 axis stabilization + articulating screen (video advantages)
3) A bit more connectivity (Bluetooth)

I suspect there is the potential for better low light performance (like the 6D vs 5D3), and we finally have a more fully featured autofocus system in this camera. If the sensor is good (and I suspect it will be), this will be a great camera for most everyone save those who need 4K video. Keeping the price sub $2000 USD is a positive surprise, considering that they didn't handicap this camera as much as the 6D.

Differentiators appear to be shutter speed, flash sync speed, AF is one tier down, 1080 vs 4K, and a single card slot. 6.5 FPS vs 7 FPS isn't a real world difference, but I wouldn't be surprised if the buffer is a little deeper on the 5D Mark IV. The big question as to whether or not I'll upgrade my 6D body to this one is if the focus screens can be easily swapped. My guess is no.


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## nightscape123 (Jun 26, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > How can canon possibly justify uhs1 in 2017. There is no reason for that except to deliberately cripple the camera. I guess this is their way of preventing ML from making the camera useful.
> ...



UHS-ii would allow unlimited raw buffer at 4 fps and nearly unlimited at 6.5 fps. It is also cheaper to buy uhs ii readers than uhs I. So I know it's not a cost issue. If it comes with unlimited raw buffer then I'll take it back and apologize to canon. If not then it was intentionally crippled


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

ScottyP said:


> I can't believe they couldn't give a 1/200th sync speed. If they are at 1/18, and if all their other shutters are 1/200th it seems an unnecessary bit of skimpage ...



All their other shutters with a 1/4000 s max on FF cameras have a 1/180 s Xsync? Well, that's true...even if it applies only to the 6D. 

To get a faster Xsync, they'd need to put in a shutter with a motor capable of faster movement, and curtains robust enough to withstand the faster movement. The 5-series have a 1/200 Xsync, and the 1/8000 s max shutter to go with it. 

The Rebel/xxxD line has a less robust shutter and 1/4000 s max, but a 1/200 s Xsync...because the curtains don't have as far to travel across an APS-C sensor. The more robust shutter in the 80D and 7-series gets you 1/250 s Xsync with the 1/8000 shutter. 

Sure, Canon could avoid the 'unnecessary bit of skimpage' and put in a more robust shutter...avoid unnecessary skimpage and make the body a bit more robust with better sealing, avoid unnecessary skimpage and add a few more AF points...avoid unnecessary skimpage and use a better metering sensor...avoid unnecessary skimpage and add 4K video and s second card slot. And avoid unnecessary skimpage on revenue by charging $3500 for it. Oh, wait...that's the 5DIV.


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## jolyonralph (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> It would be a great camera if it offered interchangeable screens.
> Without that feature, it's an SLR that can't be focused by eye. About as useful as a chocolate teapot.



I think you may have forgotten that Canon lenses are autofocus, except for specialist lenses such as the MPE-65 and the tilt shifts.

And for those you have live view.

If you really want to be able to properly manual focus a lens through the viewfinder then you may be better off looking at mirrorless options.


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## JMKE (Jun 26, 2017)

Hope that the silent shutter mode remains as silent as the 6D1.


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## dlee13 (Jun 26, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> On the stills front that is a pretty wonderful spec list, and, like the 6D1, there are a few notable advantages over the 5D Mark IV.
> 
> 1) Higher native ISO range (40K vs 32K)
> 2) Ability to output 4K timelapses + 5 axis stabilization + articulating screen (video advantages)
> ...



If you don't buy the 6D2 then I won't have anyones review to look forward to  For me the 6D2 is a definite buy, I actually just listed my 6D for sale since I'm that intent on buying this body.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > nightscape123 said:
> ...



Do you always make such definitive conclusions based on unrelated facts? 

Incidentally, Canon doesn't have to justify anything. If you want a camera with a UHS2 card slot, don't buy the 6DII. Easy.


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## candyman (Jun 26, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> ........
> I suspect there is the potential for better low light performance (like the 6D vs 5D3), ..............


I hope so and there is still no word on the center AF point sensitivity....is it -4EV or -3EV like the 5D MK IV (I don't mean live view)


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## cerealito (Jun 26, 2017)

Attero said:


> Thats aside, for 1999$ starting price its seems to be a realy nice FF entry camera.



have there been any specific leaks regarding the price, or this is just conjecture?


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 26, 2017)

dlee13 said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > On the stills front that is a pretty wonderful spec list, and, like the 6D1, there are a few notable advantages over the 5D Mark IV.
> ...



fortunately for you I actually buy very little of what I review. Most of it is loaned to me by either retailers or manufacturers.


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## wildwalker (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> It would be a great camera if it offered interchangeable screens.
> Without that feature, it's an SLR that can't be focused by eye. About as useful as a chocolate teapot.



Right, because no one uses autofocus? That was a fairly pointless post. I see you are annoyed you can't change the focus screen, especially as the Mk1 could do this. But you have to agree you are in a minority on this.


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## wildwalker (Jun 26, 2017)

cerealito said:


> Attero said:
> 
> 
> > Thats aside, for 1999$ starting price its seems to be a realy nice FF entry camera.
> ...



The price of $1999 was listed as part of one of the earlier 6DMk2 leaks last week.


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## Etienne (Jun 26, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > It would be a great camera if it offered interchangeable screens.
> ...



Canon may still add focus peaking to the 6D2, which would be highly welcomed!
.... eternally optimistic


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## SecureGSM (Jun 26, 2017)

Actually... The new metering system in 6D II is pretty much identical to the one in 5D IV?
Which is quite exciting for ETTL run and gun shooters. Better White Balance and accurate exposures. What's not to like?

*7560 pixels RGB + IR metering sensor*





neuroanatomist said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe they couldn't give a 1/200th sync speed. If they are at 1/18, and if all their other shutters are 1/200th it seems an unnecessary bit of skimpage ...
> ...


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## Luds34 (Jun 26, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> The big question as to whether or not I'll upgrade my 6D body to this one is if the focus screens can be easily swapped. My guess is no.



The swappable focus screen seems to be the last question I have as well. I really enjoyed the high precision screen on the original 6D, I'll be a tad disappointed if we lose that feature. And it's not that I ever really manual focused. I just liked the peace of mind that I felt I could get a visual confirmation that AF scored a "hit" when shooting fast glass wide open.

On a positive note, I am glad to see (although I expected we would) the latest generation of metering system with RGB, anti flicker, etc that started with the 7D2.


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## aceflibble (Jun 26, 2017)

ITT: People don't understand that the 6D line is made to meet a specific price point to combat used sales of older bodies for amateur users, _not_ to be a class-leading flagship unit.

The spec seems fine. The main competition it has—and what it's supposed to mitigate—are second hand sales of the 5D2 and 5D3, which now are predominantly bought for 1080p video. This beats them in that regard and has enough stills functionality to more broadly appeal to the kind of person who wants to move on from their entry-level SLR, is really fixated on getting a 35mm sensor, but can't afford the 5D/1D. (With the 7D line filling the same role for those who don't mind sticking to an APS-C sensor.)

This market doesn't care about 1/180th sync speed vs 1/200th, 98% viewfinder vs 100%, UHS-I vs II, etc. They want their flippy touch screen, they want solid 1080p, sensor-based stabilisation, and a decent pixel count, at a price point they can comfortably afford. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.


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## padam (Jun 26, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> Actually... The new metering system in 6D II is pretty much identical to the one in 5D IV?
> Which is quite exciting for ETTL run and gun shooters. Better White Balance and accurate exposures. What's not to like?
> 
> *7560 pixels RGB + IR metering sensor*



No, the 5D IV has a 150000 pixels RGB metering sensor. This one is similar to the 80D.


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## NJOYCanon (Jun 26, 2017)

What are the thoughts that the shutter activation will stay the same as the 6D at approx. at 100K or perhaps (hopefully, but not expected) to be increased to 150K. I know a shutter can conk out anytime, it would just be nice to see a potentially longer shutter life. 
I am looking forward to this camera, it's my foot into the full frame arena.


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## [email protected] (Jun 26, 2017)

NJOYCanon said:


> What are the thoughts that the shutter activation will stay the same as the 6D at approx. at 100K or perhaps (hopefully, but not expected) to be increased to 150K. I know a shutter can conk out anytime, it would just be nice to see a potentially longer shutter life.
> I am looking forward to this camera, it's my foot into the full frame arena.



I've never seen any evidence that there is a real relationship between camera makers' notions of expected shutter life and actual shutter life. It strikes me that this is very possibly merely a stat they use to help with price stratification. 

I do know that if there were a strong relationship between expected shutter life and actual shutter life, then I - as a frequent intervalometer user - should have seen more shutter failures than I have. I go well over the stated number with all of my bodies and never have had an issue. Could be I'm just lucky, but I suspect this is a number not generated by engineers.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

jolyonralph said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > It would be a great camera if it offered interchangeable screens.
> ...



Those 'specialist' lenses are f/2.8 or slower, meaning the stock screen shows the true DoF. Even without a high-precision screen, a fast manual prime can still be focused with good accuracy. Granted, the matte screen makes it easier...but to say that the lack thereof means it can't be focused by eye is a pretty egregious bit of hyperbole.


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## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe they couldn't give a 1/200th sync speed. If they are at 1/18, and if all their other shutters are 1/200th it seems an unnecessary bit of skimpage ...
> ...



It's such a nothingburger distinction anyway. It's 1/6 of a stop. For all intents and purposes it's the same


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

tr573 said:


> It's such a nothingburger distinction anyway. It's 1/6 of a stop. For all intents and purposes it's the same



How can you trivialize it like that? C'mon, you know Canon nerfed the 6DII's Xsync just to force people to buy the 5DIV, and to protect sales of the 1D X II.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> Actually... The new metering system in 6D II is pretty much identical to the one in 5D IV?
> Which is quite exciting for ETTL run and gun shooters. Better White Balance and accurate exposures. What's not to like?
> 
> *7560 pixels RGB + IR metering sensor*



Pretty much identical, except for the 5DIV's *142,440* additional pixels.


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## M42 (Jun 26, 2017)

So, no bulb mode? ???


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## Ozarker (Jun 26, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> ITT: People don't understand that the 6D line is made to meet a specific price point to combat used sales of older bodies for amateur users, _not_ to be a class-leading flagship unit.
> 
> The spec seems fine. The main competition it has—and what it's supposed to mitigate—are second hand sales of the 5D2 and 5D3, which now are predominantly bought for 1080p video.



Total manure. Whole production lines running to combat used sales. :


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## jmoya (Jun 26, 2017)

We all know this camera is perfect all the way around for 2013.


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## Bernard (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



My style of photography depends on placing the plane of focus exactly where I want it. Maybe yours doesn't. There room for all sorts.

To me, an SLR that can't be focused by eye is as useful as a plastic "display cake" at a bakery. It looks like the real thing, but it's not the real thing.

Mirrorless is too slow and fuzzy for that. It's fine for static work, but not when your subject is moving around.


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## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> tr573 said:
> 
> 
> > It's such a nothingburger distinction anyway. It's 1/6 of a stop. For all intents and purposes it's the same
> ...



Even the 1/200 to 1/250 difference in the 5D/1D cameras is practically nothing as far as usefulness goes (although at least it's a normal shutter speed of the camera and not one you can only select if you have a flash attached and ready to fire like the 6D's)

Someone wake me when we get global e-shutters that sync at actual high speeds. until then, 1/180, 1/200, 1/250 , you're still going to need massive amounts of light to overpower the sun.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

M42 said:


> So, no bulb mode? ???


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## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> M42 said:
> 
> 
> > So, no bulb mode? ???



That's B for Bubbles as is appropriate for a nerf camera


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

jmoya said:


> We all know this camera is perfect all the way around for 2013.



Yeah, I guess that means no one will buy a camera that's so outdated. Canon will just cry all the way to the bank. :


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## Don Haines (Jun 26, 2017)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> dlee13 said:
> 
> 
> > TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> ...


If Canon won't lend you one to review, head into Arnprior and I'll loan you mine


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> My style of photography depends on placing the plane of focus exactly where I want it. Maybe yours doesn't. There room for all sorts.
> 
> To me, an SLR that can't be focused by eye is as useful as a plastic "display cake" at a bakery. It looks like the real thing, but it's not the real thing.



I can achieve critical focus where I want it when focusing a fast manual prime through the viewfinder with a stock -A screen. Maybe you don't have that skill. You're right...there is room for all sorts.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

tr573 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > M42 said:
> ...



Damn, my 1D X doesn't have that mode. :'( Too bad, becuase sometimes it would come in handy!


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## Sarpedon (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jolyonralph said:
> ...



I wouldn't call the camera useless (it's completely fine for anything slower than 2.8 ), but like you and Dustin I'm holding out until we're sure about the focusing screen. I do a fair amount of manual focusing, both with fast auto-focus lenses and fast manual focus lenses. Relying on the confirmation dot alone makes shooting that way an entirely different (and less enjoyable and less accurate) experience, and using live view is likewise an entirely different experience. 

Unfortunately if there's no relatively easy way to get a matte screen into the new 6D (or the 5D IV, which has been out for a while and hasn't seen any third-party matte screens), I'm going to start considering switching cameras (though not lenses). In that case it'll come down to whether or not Canon can get a good full-frame mirrorless camera out soon, or if Sony fixes the response time, battery and haptics issues with the A7RII. 

It's frustrating; I was really looking forward to this camera.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 26, 2017)

I stand corrected. The "RGB" part is still exciting nonetheless 



neuroanatomist said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Actually... The new metering system in 6D II is pretty much identical to the one in 5D IV?
> ...


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## rrcphoto (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jolyonralph said:
> ...



maybe move out of the 70's and use AF or liveview?

even mirrorless won't place focus exactly where you want with focus aids without alot of fiddling.


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## BXL (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> Mirrorless is too slow and fuzzy for that. It's fine for static work, but not when your subject is moving around.


Mirrorless is too slow? Straight out of camera (Fuji X100) and the subject was moving around...


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## rrcphoto (Jun 26, 2017)

BXL said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > Mirrorless is too slow and fuzzy for that. It's fine for static work, but not when your subject is moving around.
> ...



were you manually focusing?

btw the light blooming looks downright horrid.


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## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

candyman said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > ........
> ...



Stuff like...

1) A definitive verdict on interchangeable screens (even though the leaked photos read this as very unlikely on the 6D2 due to no latch feature in the front view)
2) EV sensitivity of AF points
3) Various AF selection modes
4) Odd bits like what eyepiece mount/style it uses
5) (Insert your specific minutiae of interest here)

...probably won't get outed until NDA folks can write about it on day one, or possibly not until we get a manual.

- A


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## Bernard (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> I can achieve critical focus where I want it when focusing a fast manual prime through the viewfinder with a stock -A screen. Maybe you don't have that skill. You're right...there is room for all sorts.



No you can not.

There's an optical reason why a focusing screen that is optimized for slower lenses can not be focused critically with faster lenses. The short version is that the screen itself only show f:2.8 (or 4.0) DoF at best.

Any number of basic optical texts explain this. I'm sorry if this comes across as snarky and pedantic, but it's true.

EDIT: I highly recommend reading "Camera Technology: The Dark Side of the Lens" by Norman Goldberg if you would like to understand this better.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 26, 2017)

1/6 of the stop.. right... but could be such a pain in the neck. let me explain:

My Sekonic 478 light meter operates in full, 1/2, or 1/3 of a stop mode. If I set the unit to operate in 1/3 of the stops, than in "T" (shutter speed priority) mode, I have to work of the 1/160s shutter speed instead of 1/180s to set my aperture in 1/3 of a stop increments. Or.. set the meter to 1/2 of a stop mode, and work of the 1/180s shutter speed but that will result in 1/2 a stop shutter speed increments. That is inconvenient! ;D




tr573 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ScottyP said:
> ...


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## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

Etienne said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



I appreciate the optimism, but there's zero chance of that happening through the viewfinder in this style of camera at this price point, IMHO. 

Also, one would expect a dedicated button to flip from OVF to EVF to pull that off, and I don't see that button in any of the leaks.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > The big question as to whether or not I'll upgrade my 6D body to this one is if the focus screens can be easily swapped. My guess is no.
> ...



Is it still a question in light of the leaks? I thought the tell-tale latch/button feature (to get access to the screen) you can see from the front view of the leaked photos was not there for the 6D2.

It would appear that the 6D2 isn't getting this, which (as a positive) might imply it's default / main screen is getting some 5D-level love here. I appreciate the binary 'Can I or can't I shoot my f/1.4 Zeiss glass on this?' need, but I don't think Canon would just make this a takeaway over the 6D1. 

- A


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## [email protected] (Jun 26, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> <strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Specifications</strong> (Google Translated)</p>
> <ul>
> <li>Number of effective pixels: 26.2 million pixels (total number of pixels: 27.1 million pixels)</li>
> <li>DIGIC 7</li>
> ...



When a Canon camera with UHS-II?


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## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> 1/6 of the stop.. right... but could be such a pain in the neck. let me explain:
> 
> My Sekonic 478 light meter operates in full, 1/2, or 1/3 of a stop mode. If I set the unit to operate in 1/3 of the stops, than in "T" (shutter speed priority) mode, I have to work of the 1/160s shutter speed instead of 1/180s to set my aperture in 1/3 of a stop increments. Or.. set the meter to 1/2 of a stop mode, and work of the 1/180s shutter speed but that will result in 1/2 a stop shutter speed increments. That is inconvenient! ;D



It gets you close enough that even the worst sensor possible has enough leeway to deal with it. It's not ideal, but it's not a real issue either.


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## EduPortas (Jun 26, 2017)

schmidtfilme said:


> Is there a FF nanoUSM or STM that performs great AF during video?



Still no NanoUSM, but there's the EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM kit mentioned in the kit options.

Check out some videos on YT. It's a very good performer.


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## Zv (Jun 26, 2017)

I remember back in the day when I first got my 7D, 8FPS felt like a machine gun. Plus the 19 point AF felt so advanced at the time with all those extra modes like spot AF. I missed having those options when I switched to the 5D2 and then 6D. It was a compromise; speed and AF for superior IQ. 

These specs look real good. No more compromise and a tilty-flip touchscreen to boot! (Lost track of the amount of times I've tried to press my 6D screen only to realize it's not touchscreen! Gets confusing especially since I use the EOS M regularly)

Feeling very positive.


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## BillB (Jun 26, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> NJOYCanon said:
> 
> 
> > What are the thoughts that the shutter activation will stay the same as the 6D at approx. at 100K or perhaps (hopefully, but not expected) to be increased to 150K. I know a shutter can conk out anytime, it would just be nice to see a potentially longer shutter life.
> ...



If the number has something to do with when Canon is willing to pay for shutter repair costs, the number may well be conservative


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 26, 2017)

it is an annoyence  you can happily push shadows 5 stops, apparently. that is what they say on DPReview. 
Silly me setting up exposures in studio in 1/10 of a stop increments when I should just shoot away in ETTL mode. not being sarcastic. friendly mode is on. But seriously.. [joke] Canon "nerfed" 6D X-Sync speed to annoy studio shooters with 1/2 stop 1/3 stop discrepancies and to force them to use 5D cameras instead  [/joke]



tr573 said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > 1/6 of the stop.. right... but could be such a pain in the neck. let me explain:
> ...


----------



## Etienne (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...



I'll be happy if they just add focus peaking to the live view and movie modes


----------



## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> it is an annoyence  you can happily push shadows 5 stops, apparently. that is what they say on DPReview.
> Silly me setting up exposures in studio in 1/10 of a stop increments when I should just shoot away in ETTL mode. not being sarcastic. friendly mode is on. But seriously.. [joke] Canon "nerfed" 6D X-Sync speed to annoy studio shooters with 1/2 stop 1/3 stop discrepancies and to force them to use 5D cameras instead  [/joke]
> 
> 
> ...



Why do you have a 400$ lightmeter and a base/budget camera? 8)

I fully recognize it's a nuisance, and a silly marketing distinction. I just think the amount of handwringing people (especially ones who very obviously from their complaints knew next to nothing about using flash) did over it with the original 6D was ridiculous. One guy once told me that it made it harder for him to control ambient light for *studio* shots. 1/6th of a stop too much ambient light, like really? In your studio?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> It would be a great camera if it offered interchangeable screens.
> Without that feature, it's an SLR that can't be focused by eye. About as useful as a chocolate teapot.



To you, maybe. I would suggest that most people are fine with AF for most purposes, given the number of people who shoot bodies that don't allow changeable focus screens, nevermind that most people with a 6D or 1DX don't change the screen anyway.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

schmidtfilme said:


> Is there a FF nanoUSM or STM that performs great AF during video?



There are only two Nano USM lenses to my knowledge:

EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM (so, not FF)

EF 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS II USM (FF)

...though more are surely on the way. We're expecting an EF 50 f/1.4 USM II (eventually :) that logically would pack Nano instead of ring USM, and one might imagine the refresh of the entire 'mid-level non-L prime' line like the 85 f/1.8 USM, 100 f/2 USM, etc. would be candidates for Nano as well.

So if you want smooth AF for video right now, you are basically looking at the various STM lenses Canon currently offers for EF. The 24-105 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM comes to mind as a general purpose move, but I defer to _people that actually shoot video_ to comment on that.

- A


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 26, 2017)

$300 light meter, btw  oh, for an obvious reason: I bought 2 x 6D's for the price of a single 5D. and it all quickly adds up. I would love to shoot with 2 x 5DM4 body but cannot afford so have to shoot with 2 x 6D instead.
There are things that we want and things that we need. 




tr573 said:


> Why do you have a 400$ lightmeter and a base/budget camera? 8)



OMG, I missed that bit of important knowledge.. quick, what Youtube video should I watch if I wanted to learn how to control my ambient light in studio??  



> One guy once told me that it made it harder for him to control ambient light for *studio* shots.


----------



## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> OMG, I missed that bit of important knowledge.. quick, what Youtube video should I watch if I wanted to learn how to control my ambient light in studio??



"Blackout curtains?" : ;D


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Actually... The new metering system in 6D II is pretty much identical to the one in 5D IV?
> ...



Well, thats not good. :-\


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 26, 2017)

oh yeah.. H&S issue! Eyes fatique from slow blinking shutter / OVF blackout at 1/160 sec. I get that alot.. hmmm... should start shooting in HSS mode in studio. right. off to Youtube to learn about.. wait a minute? my Sekonic 478 cannot meter in HSS mode. oh, noooes. I need new light meter. quick.. 



tr573 said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > OMG, I missed that bit of important knowledge.. quick, what Youtube video should I watch if I wanted to learn how to control my ambient light in studio??
> ...


----------



## Bernard (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Is it still a question in light of the leaks? I thought the tell-tale latch/button feature (to get access to the screen) you can see from the front view of the leaked photos was not there for the 6D2.



It's a question of cost. The latch mechanism is cheap enough, but the screen itself has to be aligned within a few microns. That's tough to do in a high-volume camera.

The same logic goes for "98%" screen coverage. It gives them a 2% leeway, which saves a lot of adjustment on the production line (in other words, every 6DII shows 98%, but they may not show the same 98%, some are be a tad high, some to the left, etc...).

It's really unfortunate for those of us who need to focus manually, but I can see how it allows Canon to build the cameras to a price point.
I would be satisfied if Canon offered a screen swap service though their repair branch. It's worth the extra expense to me.


----------



## Adelino (Jun 26, 2017)

Which lens now? I don't have any of the kit lenses. I have a nifty 50, an 85 1.8, 70-300, 28-135. I suppose I would like one of the 24-105s for the reach and versatility. I'm not into video but STM sounds nice. I was disappointed that the L update was not much some people have stated preferences for the original L. Any thoughts are appreciated.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I can achieve critical focus where I want it when focusing a fast manual prime through the viewfinder with a stock -A screen. Maybe you don't have that skill. You're right...there is room for all sorts.
> ...



In fact, I can.

Frankly, you're coming across as a jerk, starting with the implacation that putting the focal plane where I want it is irrelevant for 'my style of photography'. I'm really not sure who would consider the position of the plane of focus irrelevant to their photography. 

But beyond that, you're coming across as someone who is very technically inclined (which applies to me, as well), but lacks substantial practical experience (and note that I'm not saying you lack such experience, merely that you sound that way).

Of course, I understand that the stock screen trades DoF for brightness with slower lenses. Perhaps you missed my previous reply in this very thread (not to mention the countless times I've explained that concept on these boards):



neuroanatomist said:


> Those 'specialist' lenses are *f/2.8 or slower, meaning the stock screen shows the true DoF*. Even without a high-precision screen, a fast manual prime can still be focused with good accuracy. Granted, the matte screen makes it easier...but to say that the lack thereof means it can't be focused by eye is a pretty egregious bit of hyperbole.



Or perhaps you read it, and merely failed to grasp the implied converse of the above statement.

In fact, manual focusing is usually a dynamic process, not a static one. If you can assess the degree of defocus both in front and behind your desired plane of focus, and have an understanding of the distribution of the DoF around the focal plane as it relates to focal length and subject distance, then it's quite possible to reliably achieve critical manual focus with a fast prime and the stock -A screen, despite the fact that you can't see that true DoF in the viewfinder.

I could recommend ample literature from one of my fields of expertise – optical microscopy – stating that the resolution of a system is ultimately limited by diffraction...a 'fact' that was noted close to 150 years ago by Ernst Abbe, who approximated that limit as 1/2 the illuminating wavelength (e.g. ~250 nm for green light, and note that I'm significantly simplfying the relevant concepts here). That's technically true, except for some modern 'loopholes' that are collectively termed superresolution microscopy, and through various techniques make it possible for a light microscope to resolve structures separated by a distance of less than λ/2. Interestingly, and not coincidentally, many of those techniques have a temporal component, i.e. through dynamic imaging the system can overcome the physical limitation on performance.

If I give you a ruler with markings only in centimeters, technically you cannot measure an object to an accuracy of 5 mm. However, I suspect that in practice, you could do just that with a high degree of accuracy and precision. So please, before you so arrogantly declare that I cannot possibly achieve critical focus with a fast prime and a stock viewfinder screen because the true DoF cannot be directly seen in the VF, give some consideration to the fact that others may have abilities and/or skills that you lack. Fortunately, you can learn by practice, so if you do get a 6DII, I'd suggest you mount your fast, manual primes and learn to focus with them using the -A screen. You may be pleasantly surprised at the outcome.


----------



## The Flasher (Jun 26, 2017)

Tilt screen, much improved af, main reasons to upgrade from 6d. Lack of second card slot is too bad but not a deal breaker. I've sold my 6d while the resale was still high, bought the 5d4. Happy with that until the 5dsr2 drops eventually.


----------



## m8547 (Jun 26, 2017)

How much better is the "7560 pixel RGB + IR metering sensor" versus the old 63 zone metering? Will this camera have iTR servo AF?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

tr573 said:


> I fully recognize it's a nuisance, and a silly marketing distinction. I just think the amount of handwringing people (especially ones who very obviously from their complaints knew next to nothing about using flash) did over it with the original 6D was ridiculous. One guy once told me that it made it harder for him to control ambient light for *studio* shots. 1/6th of a stop too much ambient light, like really? In your studio?



I could see the decision being made with the opposite motivation. While an Xsync of 1/160 s would be more convenient for the 1/3-increment folks (which, let's face it, is pretty much everyone!), maybe they thought, well, sure...we could limit it to 1/160 s, but based on the shutter motor/curtain performance it can actually do 1/180 s, so let's go with that instead of nerfing the camera by artifically limiting it by 1/6-stop. 

Just some food for thought.


----------



## LesC (Jun 26, 2017)

Adelino said:


> Which lens now? I don't have any of the kit lenses. I have a nifty 50, an 85 1.8, 70-300, 28-135. I suppose I would like one of the 24-105s for the reach and versatility. I'm not into video but STM sounds nice. I was disappointed that the L update was not much some people have stated preferences for the original L. Any thoughts are appreciated.



I have the 6D and use it with the EF24-70 F2.8L MKII which is nice but I still don't believe lives up to the hype about it. I'll be getting the 6D MKII at some stage & if there's a good kit deal including the 24-105 F4L MKII I may well go for that too - the extra reach & IS would be nice. I think that's the one to go for now if it's a 24-105 you want. Otherwise, might be nice to see what reviews of the new Sigma and Tamron 24-70 suggest as both are F2.8 and have IS. Of course depending on how you like your 28-135, you could see what results are like with that first before deciding on another lens?

With regards to complaints on this and other threads that the 6D MKII doesn't have this or that, I don't get it. I bough the original 6D because as a Canon shooter it was the cheapest by far way of getting into full frame. The same applies to the new model too and it has a few nice improvements too. I just hope the UK price isn't too ridiculous


----------



## smr (Jun 26, 2017)

I can't wait to buy my 6Dmk2. 

But I'm wondering out of curiosity how much it'll cost for those of us in paying in sterling?

Not just a case of simply converting $1999 into £££'s is it?


----------



## lourenco (Jun 26, 2017)

Xsync of 1/160 is not enough for me to do hyper sync with my Paul C Buff Einstein Flash heads and the Flex TT5.

If I am shooting at 1/1000 to freeze action of a car doing a wheelie in the center of the frame, The 1dx having small black bars on frame top and bottom is no big deal. It is a big deal on the 6d since the top part of the car would not have flash given you can see from the photos below it would be completely cut off. That's a big deal for me. I rather not buy new flash heads. I was thinking about this given the low price, but I have to pass. 


1dx has 1/250 sync speed 







vs 

6d , which I am sure would look the same on the 6d Mark II


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Is it still a question in light of the leaks? I thought the tell-tale latch/button feature (to get access to the screen) you can see from the front view of the leaked photos was not there for the 6D2.
> ...



And yet...they managed to do it for the 6D, and prior cameras like the 40D/50D/60D that are much higher volume than the 6-series. 

I previously believed it wass a question of the cost _when there's a transmissive LCD adjacent to the focusing screen_. The 5DII had swappable screens with a standard AF point overlay, the 5DIII added the transmissive LCD and dropped the swappable screen. The 40D/50D/60D had a standard AF point overlay and swappable screens, the 70D added the transmissive LCD and dropped the swappable screen. Only the 1D X had both, suggesting that there was an engineering solution, but it was not cheap. But then the 7DII came out with a transmissive LCD and interchangeable screens, proving me wrong. 

So, most likely it has nothing to do with cost per se, in terms of feasiblity (but cost certainly comes into the equation becuase a lower production cost means more profit), but rather Canon's determination of which features were important to the 6DII target market and which were not. Unfortunately for you, it seems an important feature to you was deemed unworthy of inclusion by Canon.


----------



## Bernard (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> so if you do get a 6DII, I'd suggest you mount your fast, manual primes and learn to focus with them using the -A screen. You may be pleasantly at the outcome.



I feel you would especially appreciate the book I suggested, given your background.

I've gone through your suggested exercise with the 5DIII and again with the 5DS. No need to do it a third time. You can, eventually, get some sharp shots using a fuzzy screen and estimating the middle distance between different levels of unsharpness in the viewfinder. It's a slow and haphazard process, made worse by the fact that I know how much easier things would be using the appropriate screen.

The lack of interchangeable screens is just a cost-cutting move, nothing more.


----------



## LesC (Jun 26, 2017)

smr said:


> I can't wait to buy my 6Dmk2.
> 
> But I'm wondering out of curiosity how much it'll cost for those of us in paying in sterling?
> 
> Not just a case of simply converting $1999 into £££'s is it?



I'm in the UK too so wondering about the price also. I think it's likely to be about £1999 too - looking at prices for the 5DMK4, the prices seem pretty much the same for £ or $ comparing UK & US suppliers and I think the MSRP is £3499 or $3499 so here's hoping .... I may wait till after Xmas to see if the price drops but i did that with my 80D and it didn't


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> I've gone through your suggested exercise with the 5DIII and again with the 5DS. No need to do it a third time. You can, eventually, get some sharp shots using a fuzzy screen and estimating the middle distance between different levels of unsharpness in the viewfinder. It's a slow and haphazard process, made worse by the fact that I know how much easier things would be using the appropriate screen.



Well, it's too bad you were unsuccessful. With my 5DII, I got to the point where I would bother swapping in the Eg-S screen for manually focusing fast primes, becuase it no longer had a significant impact on my results (although it did make for a more pleasant shooting experience).


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 26, 2017)

lourenco said:


> Xsync of 1/160 is not enough for me to do hyper sync with my Paul C Buff Einstein Flash heads and the Flex TT5.
> 
> If I am shooting at 1/1000 to freeze action of a car doing a wheelie in the center of the frame, The 1dx having small black bars on frame top and bottom is no big deal. It is a big deal on the 6d since the top part of the car would not have flash given you can see from the photos below it would be completely cut off. That's a big deal for me. I rather not buy new flash heads. I was thinking about this given the low price, but I have to pass.
> 
> ...



In a studio, if you have good control over your ambient light, even the 1/80 is good enough, as strobes, in fact, tend to be quite fast.

When you are outdoors, then chances are, that while 1/180 of the 6D2 is not enough, neither is 1/200 of the 5D4. There are some special HS (not strobe intensive HSS) solutions on the market. We use Elinchrom for that, along with the special HS (slow) head. 

You can get up to 1/8000 .... well, obviously only to 1/4000 using 6D2, because of its nerfing (whatever it means)


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 26, 2017)

smr said:


> I can't wait to buy my 6Dmk2.
> 
> But I'm wondering out of curiosity how much it'll cost for those of us in paying in sterling?
> 
> Not just a case of simply converting $1999 into £££'s is it?



Well in theory you take 2000 usd, convert it to gbp (1572) and add VAT at 20% = £1887. However, there are other factors, cost of shipping to each continent, usd/yen/gbp rates blah blah. 

We normally just take the USD value, add a little and call it GBP. So while I would like to think it will be £1999 here in the UK, I have a feeling it will launch at £2250.

The 5DMk4 released at 3700 USD and was 3700 GBP, but the pound is a bit weaker now, so who knows?


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

Bernard said:


> It's a question of cost. The latch mechanism is cheap enough, but the screen itself has to be aligned within a few microns. That's tough to do in a high-volume camera.



Yet Canon somehow found a way to pull off this engineering phenomenon in the 6D1. :

I'm not upset or ranting about it not being present in the 6D2 -- though others surely will -- but your argument would imply this is a straight takeaway from an existing brand for cost reasons. Possible, but unlikely.

I still think Canon has jazzed up the viewfinder somehow as a result of this decision, perhaps making it more 5D-like. This can't _just_ be a takeaway. 

- A


----------



## smr (Jun 26, 2017)

LesC said:


> smr said:
> 
> 
> > I can't wait to buy my 6Dmk2.
> ...



The 80D didn't drop after Xmas I was also looking at getting one, the best price was around October time when you could get one for around £670ish (non grey) after Canon cashback. Super price that was considering the price of it now.


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 26, 2017)

LesC said:


> Adelino said:
> 
> 
> > Which lens now? I don't have any of the kit lenses. I have a nifty 50, an 85 1.8, 70-300, 28-135. I suppose I would like one of the 24-105s for the reach and versatility. I'm not into video but STM sounds nice. I was disappointed that the L update was not much some people have stated preferences for the original L. Any thoughts are appreciated.
> ...



We are still debating ourselves on the lens selection. None of the offered kit lens options seem to be fast enough for our wedding purposes. But then, our Sigma Art 35/1.4 is still two stops faster than any f2.8 option. If only it would not be such a calibration pig.

Despite the lack of the image stabilisation, I am still thinking about the Canon 24-70/2.8 mk II. Not sure about offered alternatives. I have lower trust into Sigma, a bit better into Tamron (our old APS-C 17-50/2.8 non IS is still quite nice lens).


----------



## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

lourenco said:


> Xsync of 1/160 is not enough for me to do hyper sync with my Paul C Buff Einstein Flash heads and the Flex TT5.
> 
> If I am shooting at 1/1000 to freeze action of a car doing a wheelie in the center of the frame, The 1dx having small black bars on frame top and bottom is no big deal. It is a big deal on the 6d since the top part of the car would not have flash given you can see from the photos below it would be completely cut off. That's a big deal for me. I rather not buy new flash heads. I was thinking about this given the low price, but I have to pass.
> 
> ...



That looks like what happens when you *don't* use hypersync. The pocketwizard wiki pages for E640's on a 6D don't look like that.

http://wiki.pocketwizard.com/images/0/05/6D_EinsteinE640_HighestEnergy_Ver11.pdf
http://wiki.pocketwizard.com/images/b/bf/6D_EinsteinE640_ReducedClipping_Ver11.pdf


----------



## jmoya (Jun 26, 2017)

I already have 6d mark II buyers remorse and I haven't even bought it yet. I'd like a 1dx mark II spec'd camera from canon minus the size. I'm a travel vlogger where size, weight, number of gear matters. I don't mind paying a premium for features from canon but the lack of good video on this camera is no bueno. Even worse is the canon 5d mark IV. The video codec on this is the worst. If they would've had that right on the 5d I'd own it right now. I was holding out for the 6d II and even sold off one of my two 5d3 in preparation...but now just kinda stuck getting it and not being completely satisfied. I'm too invested in canon lenses, flashes etc. :-\


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

Adelino said:


> Which lens now? I don't have any of the kit lenses. I have a nifty 50, an 85 1.8, 70-300, 28-135. I suppose I would like one of the 24-105s for the reach and versatility. I'm not into video but STM sounds nice. I was disappointed that the L update was not much some people have stated preferences for the original L. Any thoughts are appreciated.



The answer depends heavily on what you shoot and what you are _moving from_ when you get your 6D2.

For instance, if you shoot long and are moving from crop to the 6D2, the 100-400L II might be in order to get some reach back. If you want to use that DPAF+tilty-flippy touchscreen to shoot video, STM glass would be in order.

We need a little more to go on to help you find your next lens. What do you usually shoot?

- A


----------



## Chaitanya (Jun 26, 2017)

barely any better than D750 from Nikon, seriously castrated camera from dumbCanon.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

jmoya said:


> I already have 6d mark II buyers remorse and I haven't even bought it yet. I'd like a 1dx mark II spec'd camera from canon minus the size. I'm a travel vlogger where size, weight, number of gear matters. I don't mind paying a premium for features from canon but the lack of good video on this camera is no bueno. Even worse is the canon 5d mark IV. The video codec on this is the worst. If they would've had that right on the 5d I'd own it right now. I was holding out for the 6d II and even sold off one of my two 5d3 in preparation...but now just kinda stuck getting it and not being completely satisfied. I'm too invested in canon lenses, flashes etc. :-\



If you need 4K + FF + tilty-flippy screen that faces the front for vlogging + smaller than a 1-series, I think you are SOL...

Hmmm... A99 II, perhaps? I think that screen comes around to the front.

- A


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 26, 2017)

quite alot better...
it is still 63 zone as before but new RGB metering sensor sees colours.
old metering system treated everything in the viewfinder as mid level grey (18% grey) colour.
hence your snow would come out underexposed and your blacks over exposed. new RGB metering system delivers more accurate scene metering and white balance.

http://www.canon-asia.com/cplus/en/metering-system/




m8547 said:


> How much better is the "7560 pixel RGB + IR metering sensor" versus the old 63 zone metering? Will this camera have iTR servo AF?


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 26, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> barely any better than D750 from Nikon, seriously castrated camera from dumbCanon.



Here they come, the D750 luvvies.

How is your D750? Do you take many photos with it? or, as I suspect, do you not actually have one???

If you do have a D750, nice, head on over to the Nikon forums for some more relevant chat.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> barely any better than D750 from Nikon, seriously castrated camera from dumbCanon.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > It's a question of cost. The latch mechanism is cheap enough, but the screen itself has to be aligned within a few microns. That's tough to do in a high-volume camera.
> ...



And (as I pointed out earlier) in the 40D/50D/60D, all of which were much higher volume sellers than entry-level FF cameras. 

Well, some people talk out of their mouths, and some talk out of...other orifices.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> And (as I pointed out earlier) in the 40D/50D/60D, all of which were much higher volume sellers than entry-level FF cameras.
> 
> Well, some people talk out of their mouths, and some talk out of...other orifices.



My only guess here with the 6D2 -- and this is just a guess -- we're getting a transmissive screen in return for the focusing screen takeaway. Same thing happened when the 5D3 lost its ability to change screens, right?

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > And (as I pointed out earlier) in the 40D/50D/60D, all of which were much higher volume sellers than entry-level FF cameras.
> ...



Yes, and the 60D -> 70D. At first, only the 1D X had a transmissive LCD _and_ swappable screens...but then the 7DII got both. So...for the 6DII it may just be a take-away, as you put it.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > My only guess here with the 6D2 -- and this is just a guess -- we're getting a transmissive screen in return for the focusing screen takeaway. Same thing happened when the 5D3 lost its ability to change screens, right?
> ...



Sorry! When I said takeaway, I meant nothing at all -- swappable screens yanked and no upgrade in any other way. I'd consider transmissive screens something and not nothing, so it wouldn't be a pure takeaway in my book.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I agree it seems (to me) a worthwhile trade-off - I prefer the additional information of a transmissive LCD over swappable screens, and more importantly with the recent bodies having so many focus points, the ability to _not_ always see all those focus points. 

But given that they included both the transmissive LCD and swappable screens on the similarly-priced 7DII, to not include both on the 6DII (and the more expensive 5DIV) does seem like 'nerfing' on Canon's part. Or if you prefer, product differentiation – as it now stands, only the top-of-the-line APS-C and FF bodies have both capabilities.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> But given that they included both the transmissive LCD and swappable screens on the similarly-priced 7DII, to not include both on the 6DII (and the more expensive 5DIV) does seem like 'nerfing' on Canon's part. Or if you prefer, product differentiation – as it now stands, only the top-of-the-line APS-C and FF bodies have both capabilities.



On this feature, it's more modernization than nerfing / segmentation / differentiation to me. One might argue, just as you said, the added AF points create clutter in the VF than a transmissive screen would manage.

I just see the 6D2 catching up to the 5D line with this decision. Yes, it's a takeaway to folks who handhold their 6D1 with Zeiss glass, but to the other (guessing) 98% of the 6D1 masses, this should (correctly) be seen as an upgrade.

- A


----------



## BXL (Jun 26, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> BXL said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...


Auto focus and we know how fast the AF of the X100 is. 



> btw the light blooming looks downright horrid.


I know. But I haven't done any post yet.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > But given that they included both the transmissive LCD and swappable screens on the similarly-priced 7DII, to not include both on the 6DII (and the more expensive 5DIV) does seem like 'nerfing' on Canon's part. Or if you prefer, product differentiation – as it now stands, only the top-of-the-line APS-C and FF bodies have both capabilities.
> ...



Not to beat a dead horse, but my point is that given that the 7DII has both, for the 6DII Canon could have added the transmissive LCD _and_ kept the interchangeable focus screens. But they didn't. Definitely agree that for almost everyone the switch is beneficial, but my point is that the two features aren't mutually exclusive in that price-class, and while the transmissive LCD is 'better' than the swappable screens, having both features would be even better.


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## CanonCams (Jun 26, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> quite alot better...
> it is still 63 zone as before but new RGB metering sensor sees colours.
> old metering system treated everything in the viewfinder as mid level grey (18% grey) colour.
> hence your snow would come out underexposed and your blacks over exposed. new RGB metering system delivers more accurate scene metering and white balance.
> ...



Ok, so the 6D has 63 Dual Layer but the 6D MK II will have 63 Dual Layer w/ RGB + IR? (If I read that correctly)


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## Redline (Jun 26, 2017)

I mean it is still considered an entry-level full frame body no? And seems like a decent spec for astrophotographers especially that tilt screen which I wish my old 6D MKI had. Another slow but strong body...the added AF point is a big bonus. Of course we'll never hear the end of people that want all the specs from the 5D or expect to do everything like a $4,000 camera


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## bereninga (Jun 26, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Although I've never changed my focusing screen, this is a bummer for folks who use manual focusing lenses. Seems like one of the appeals for the 6D vs the 5D series.


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > It's a question of cost. The latch mechanism is cheap enough, but the screen itself has to be aligned within a few microns. That's tough to do in a high-volume camera.
> ...



It would be poor even as a differentiator, since taking it out can't possibly even "protect" the 5D4. I'd assume either that you're right that they jazzed up the VF (more likely) or determined the added construction cost wasn't justified by the added sale price/ utility in the field. Remember, it's a whole fiddly extra set of moving parts to engineer and assemble, not just "sure, toss it in".

I know it's a very big deal to some people, but I wonder how many the number is, remembering that the people on this site and the other photo nerd sites are very much the exceptions.


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## Talys (Jun 26, 2017)

LPE6 Batteries. Huzzah, there was much rejoicing.


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## daphins (Jun 26, 2017)

bereninga said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Im trying to follow what all of this means? (60D shooter, behind on current tech but getting mkii for FF)

1. What's a transmiissive screen do?
2. Why do people want swappable screens?
3. How does his affect manual of users?
4. Will it have touch-point AF?


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## tr573 (Jun 26, 2017)

daphins said:


> Im trying to follow what all of this means? (60D shooter, behind on current tech but getting mkii for FF)
> 
> 1. What's a transmiissive screen do?
> 2. Why do people want swappable screens?
> ...



1: Let's them overlay a ton of (user selectable) info on top of the scene in the viewfinder, instead of the (relatively) limited amount of info that can be fitted into the small lcd bar below the scene. AF Points included, rather than being etched into the focus screen permanently
2: Stock focus screens, in order to brighten the view with slow (f/4, f/5.6, etc) lenses, cannot accurately display the DOF for fast (f/2, f/1.4, f/1.2) lenses. So they are harder to manually focus
3: More difficult to manually focus fast lenses
4: Yes, in Live View


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## rrcphoto (Jun 26, 2017)

BXL said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > BXL said:
> ...



that wasn't his point. they were talking about manual focus.


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (Jun 26, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> BXL said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



I can manually focus my X-PRO2 fast and efficiently with my 23mm f2 attached. It's definitely not a slow camera in any respect.


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## rfdesigner (Jun 26, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



I'm guessing the logic is that they are used for manual focus.. so with a million focus points they're not needed.

Alas I have an EG-S screen to help me judge DoF, not for manual focus.

If they can produce a focus screen that doesn't over dim slow glass but also show true DoF for fast glass then everyone's happy.


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## daphins (Jun 26, 2017)

tr573 said:


> daphins said:
> 
> 
> > Im trying to follow what all of this means? (60D shooter, behind on current tech but getting mkii for FF)
> ...




Thanks a ton! Greatly appreciate the download. Even more excited now


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## deadwrong (Jun 26, 2017)

Its now Feb 2018......ummm 6d2          
even the 5DIV is dead by then.


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## jayphotoworks (Jun 26, 2017)

tr573 said:


> daphins said:
> 
> 
> > Im trying to follow what all of this means? (60D shooter, behind on current tech but getting mkii for FF)
> ...



I find Canon's implementation of the transmissive lcd less than ideal. First and foremost is that it is very dark. If you are shooting in an dark environment and use the AF indicator on the transmissive lcd vs the lower status bar which appears bright green regardless of the surroundings, you will miss it for sure. Second, the implementation is also not the same across bodies. Except for the 1dx II, all of them will not allow the AF point to stay illuminated like the 1d4-era bodies. If you want the AF point to illuminate, the entire viewfinder flashes or glows red. It can also blink the af point on the 5Div, but looking through the viewfinder feels like a night club party complete with a DJ and strobe lights. I'm surprised the 5Div didn't get the same treatment as the 1DxII, but I'm hoping all future bodies will get this, but I'm guessing an entry-level body like the 6dII will be last in line.


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 26, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> tr573 said:
> 
> 
> > daphins said:
> ...



A major reason why I opted 1DX2 over 5D4 along with metering off selected spot. With a 6D2 as my back up I'm fine with whatever it has (my 6D sale pending Wed night ). Obviously important to a lot of folk because it was brought back not being on the 1DX. And it represented one time when Neuro was wrong 

Jack


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## BillB (Jun 26, 2017)

So if I am following all this correctly, for all of this time, an upside of the implementation of the 6D's much maligned 9 point AF was that it permitted us to swap focussing screens in and out as much as we wanted to. As years of discontent with the 6D's 9 point AF come to an end, we will now face discontent with our inability to swap focussing screens in the 6DII, or at least we so believe. (Canon might possibly have given the 6DII better AF and swappable focussing screens as it gave the 7DII, but the indications seem to be that it did not do so.)


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## MayaTlab (Jun 26, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



It isn't an extra set of moving parts to engineer and assemble, for the simple reason that all Canon cameras with a transmissive LCD still use the exact same mechanism usually used to hold in place the focusing screen, even ones such as the 5DIII. In fact it's quite the contrary : cameras on which the focusing screen can't be easily changed have an extra protecting piece in front of the holding mechanism that's hold in place with a few screws and prevents users from directly accessing the locking mechanism.
This video demonstrates this : https://vimeo.com/83843427


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## MayaTlab (Jun 26, 2017)

jayphotoworks said:


> tr573 said:
> 
> 
> > daphins said:
> ...



Having both a transmissive LCD and individually lit AF points requires an extra prism and LCD display in the viewfinder and that makes it bigger : https://youtu.be/eZH2fR8MV_8?t=52s


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## ahsanford (Jun 26, 2017)

BillB said:


> So if I am following all this correctly, for all of this time, an upside of the implementation of the 6D's much maligned 9 point AF was that it permitted us to swap focussing screens in and out as much as we wanted to. As years of discontent with the 6D's 9 point AF come to an end, we will now face discontent with our inability to swap focussing screens in the 6DII, or at least we so believe. (Canon might possibly have given the 6DII better AF and swappable focussing screens as it gave the 7DII, but the indications seem to be that it did not do so.)



You are conflating # of AF points with the ability change screens. It's not that simple -- consider:


There are cameras with low AF point count systems and fixed screens: SL1, Rebels, etc.


There are cameras with low AF point count systems and interchangeable screens: 5D2, 6D1


There are cameras with high AF point count systems and fixed screens: the 5D/5DS line since the 5D3


There are cameras with high AF point count systems and interchangeable screens: 7D2, 1-series in general


My hypothesis is that that moving to a transmissive setup (that I believe the 6D2 will get, like the 5D3 did when _it_ lost it's interchangeable focusing screens) allows a higher AF point setup from crowding the viewfinder with permanent AF spot marks.

So -- I'm just guessing here -- Canon views the transmissive viewfinder as either being premium to the non-transmissive version or _more necessary with the 6D2 than the 6D1 due to 36 more AF points coming to the table_. 

That paragraph (above) makes perfect sense to me, as does the Cadillac-spec'd 1-series getting the luxe option to go transmissive _or_ swap out the screen. The only part of this that doesn't make sense is a $1,500 crop rig getting functionality a 6D2, 5D4, 5DS, etc. doesn't get. Why the_ 7D2_ gets the fancy here is the real outlier to me.

- A


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 26, 2017)

MayaTlab said:


> It isn't an extra set of moving parts to engineer and assemble, for the simple reason that all Canon cameras with a transmissive LCD still use the exact same mechanism usually used to hold in place the focusing screen, even ones such as the 5DIII. In fact it's quite the contrary : cameras on which the focusing screen can't be easily changed have an extra protecting piece in front of the holding mechanism that's hold in place with a few screws and prevents users from directly accessing the locking mechanism.
> This video demonstrates this : https://vimeo.com/83843427



That extra tab for the release (that people noticed was missing from above the mirror) is, definitively, a finicky moving part, no? It can't possible be simpler to make the piece removable than permanently close it, or they'd all be removable. And a few extra screws that stay screwed down are better, from an engineering perspective, than a bunch of hinges and tabs that also need to be screwed down but need to be tested to a certain number of cycles, temperature ranges, sealing, etc.


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## BillB (Jun 26, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > So if I am following all this correctly, for all of this time, an upside of the implementation of the 6D's much maligned 9 point AF was that it permitted us to swap focussing screens in and out as much as we wanted to. As years of discontent with the 6D's 9 point AF come to an end, we will now face discontent with our inability to swap focussing screens in the 6DII, or at least we so believe. (Canon might possibly have given the 6DII better AF and swappable focussing screens as it gave the 7DII, but the indications seem to be that it did not do so.)
> ...



Just to quibble, I said it was Canon's implementation of the 9 point system that permitted the swappable screen, I did not say that the number of points per se had anything to do with it. My main point was that the long sought end to the much maligned 9 point AF system will apparently come at the price of the swappability of the focussing screen.

I agree with you that the lack of a transmissive screen in the 6D was the reason that the screens were swappable, and that likely there is a transmissive setup in the 6DII that will mean that the screen cannot be swapped out. The transmissive setup would seem to be part of the 45 point system that has been implemented on several APS-C cameras, non of which have swappable focussing screens.


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## Luds34 (Jun 27, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> I know it's a very big deal to some people, but I wonder how many the number is, remembering that the people on this site and the other photo nerd sites are very much the exceptions.



I really enjoyed the high precision focus screen on my 6D. I expected to purchase one for my new 6D2. If it isn't an option to swap the focus screen, I'll live. It's a nice to have but nothing critical.


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## Don Haines (Jun 27, 2017)

My evaluation of the 6D2:

Better than expected:
45 points AF – All Crosstype
Continuous: Up to 6.5 frames / sec 
5 Axis Electronic Image Stabilization
Time lapse movie (4K output)
Number of pictures per charge: Approx. 1200 pictures (when viewfinder shooting)

As expected:
Number of effective pixels: 26.2 million pixels
DIGIC 7
Dual pixel CMOS AF
Tilt/swivel touchscreen
No Flash
7560 pixels RGB + IR metering sensor
Viewfinder: 98% coverage
Viewfinder magnification: 0.71x
Standard ISO: 100 – 40000 (extended ISO: 50 [L], 51200 [H 1], 102400 [H 2])
Sync Speed 1/180
Anti-flicker
Wi-Fi
Bluetooth
NFC
No headphone jack
GPS
Single memory card slot
Electronic level
Battery: LP-E6N / LP-E6

Disappointing:
Video: Full HD 60p
No USB3
Media: SD / SDHC / SDXC card (UHS-I card compatible)
No swappable screen

Keep in mind that this is an upgrade, and a lot of the "expected" features are better than the 6D. The items that are better than expected, like high ISO, Fps, and battery life are very important to the stills shooter.

The four disappointing specs.... 

Only 2K video? seems a bit disappointing and dated. Obviously this is not a high end video camera. On the other hand, THIS IS NOT A HIGH END VIDEO CAMERA! If video is really that important to you, get a real video camera! It will work much better than a DSLR and the ergonomics are designed for the task. Even a 1DX2 or 5D4 pales beside a real video camera.... I wanted 2.7K so I could "steadycam edit" my footage to get a more stable 2K output, but now I can not. HOWEVER, (and this is a really big however), the camera seems to have this function built into the camera, so I can now get the stable 2K footage straight from the camera, saving me a lot of work and HD space....

No USB3.... mixed emotions on this one.... The speed of 3 is better, but you can remote with much longer cables for 2..... If it had 3, 90 percent of the time I used it, it would have "failed" down to USB 2 mode....

No UHS-2? OK, This one is clear. I think Canon goofed on this one.... They could have had infinite buffer on the camera with a UHS-2 card. Obviously Canon thinks different, but in my opinion, they got this one wrong!

No swappable screen? Since I would not do this anyway, it matters not!



When you lump it all together, my conclusion is that Canon just cost me $2000. On paper, it looks like a great camera for a stills shooter or a standard quality video shooter. I look forward to seeing a few reviews soon....


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 27, 2017)

Don, for me the better than expected far outweigh the small disappointments. I loved the 6D in spite of; now those things are history.

I'm hoping for more programmability, especially relative to AF buttons, and AF at F8 would be appreciated too. I was clueless about so much of this back 4 years when I bought the 6D so it didn't register much but all that has changed.

Jack


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## Inspired (Jun 27, 2017)

This is ridiculous.
Who makes a camera for working professionals with a sync speed of 180? 
why canon why?


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## ahsanford (Jun 27, 2017)

Don, my list is a little simpler:

It's 90% the rig I thought they'd get with the (somewhat shocking) surprise of the 6.5 fps and the (reasonably forseeable) letdown of no 4K or dual slots. The rest is just about dead on to what you'd expect.

Interchangeable screens have been a live topic today but largely a background consideration in the bigger picture of how this will sell. Some folks will be bummed -- and rightly so if you shoot MF glass on your 6D1 today -- but I'm imagine they are a distant minority to the people who will be loving life with an 80D-like AF setup.

There will be some new beefs & butthurtness once the deep (manual-level) specs arise, like how many f/8 AF points there turn out to be, how much you can / cannot control remotely over wifi, fps burst rate while using silent shutter, if you need to buy a new L-plate for landscapes, etc.

But more or less, it's a worthy step up and it will sell well. 

- A


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## nightscape123 (Jun 27, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> My evaluation of the 6D2:
> 
> Better than expected:
> 45 points AF – All Crosstype
> ...



This is pretty much exactly where i'm at right now. The lack is UHS-II is baffling, but the good far outweighs the bad. I'll probably pre-order, i've been saving up for this camera for a long time. It is going to be a pretty massive upgrade over my T3i...


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## ahsanford (Jun 27, 2017)

One addendum to my last post, though -- I don't think the D750 boo birds aren't going away. 

I'm not _agreeing_ with them one bit, but at a body-feature-level, other than DPAF, I'm hard pressed for a killer spec sheet item on the 6D2 that will turn heads from that camp. (I'm obviously disregarding the intrinsic Canon upsides like ergonomics, EF portfolio, menu setup, reliability, resale, etc.) 

I'm just guessing that the 6D2 isn't exactly going to steal many crop-to-FF upgraders from Nikon, that's all. Doubly so if a D760 with 30+ MP / 8 fps / 4K rig shows up for $2k in the next year.

- A


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 27, 2017)

Inspired said:


> This is ridiculous.
> Who makes a camera for working professionals with a sync speed of 180?
> why canon why?



Why do you think Canon made this for working professionals?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Inspired said:
> 
> 
> > This is ridiculous.
> ...



+1

It's almost as if Canon wants this camera to fail. After all, the 6D also has a 1/180 s Xsync, and look what a commercial failure that turned out to be. :


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## BillB (Jun 27, 2017)

Inspired said:


> This is ridiculous.
> Who makes a camera for working professionals with a sync speed of 180?
> why canon why?



And what sync speed is appropriate for a working professional's camera?


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## Don Haines (Jun 27, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Inspired said:
> 
> 
> > This is ridiculous.
> ...





neuroanatomist said:
 

> +1
> It's almost as if Canon wants this camera to fail. After all, the 6D also has a 1/180 s Xsync, and look what a commercial failure that turned out to be. :





BillB said:


> And what sync speed is appropriate for a working professional's camera?


Come on now.... the person has only made one post, and it is to say something ludicrous and provocative..... and you responded? Best to ignore such postings and let the troll perish from lack of attention....


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## BillB (Jun 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> One addendum to my last post, though -- I don't think the D750 boo birds aren't going away.
> 
> I'm not _agreeing_ with them one bit, but at a body-feature-level, other than DPAF, I'm hard pressed for a killer spec sheet item on the 6D2 that will turn heads from that camp. (I'm obviously disregarding the intrinsic Canon upsides like ergonomics, EF portfolio, menu setup, reliability, resale, etc.)
> 
> ...



Those specs and that price would likely be enough to hold Nikon upgraders, but can they deliver the specs and live with a $2K price, and when can they roll it out? We shall see. My guess is that the 6DII's $2k price is going to put a lot of pressure on Nikon.


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## Isaacheus (Jun 27, 2017)

BillB said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > One addendum to my last post, though -- I don't think the D750 boo birds aren't going away.
> ...



I have to agree with ahsanford, unless there's something surprising in the launch (Ibis and an astro tracker would be great), most of the positives, for myself at least, are the ergonomics and lenses I already own. The tilt screen and dpaf are the only body features that this seems to have over Sony and Nikon, again, at least for my purposes. 

The sensor performance will really have to be pretty good to make the upgrade from the original. 

I really like some aspects of Canon, but the competition are putting up some really strong arguments too


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## lourenco (Jun 27, 2017)

tr573 said:


> lourenco said:
> 
> 
> > Xsync of 1/160 is not enough for me to do hyper sync with my Paul C Buff Einstein Flash heads and the Flex TT5.
> ...



Scroll down to the 1/2 power. It looks like that. I am between 1/4 to 1/2 power on the flash heads. Keep in mind the heads are 640 watts each and I am using big aluminum dish long throw reflector. If I am 1/4 to 1/2 power level ,I can take a 2nd or 3rd photo without having to wait for the flash to cycle. 



I.E. The highest wheelie i had of this car was on the 3rd shot. I try to make my best guess at when I should take the photo, but some wheelie higher.


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## mahdi_mak2000 (Jun 27, 2017)

sorry I m a bit dump in technical matters. sync speed 180 technically means at shutter speeds faster than 180 the shutter 2nd curtains start to close before the 1st one fully open. right??? 
so flash photography cant be done without HSS, right?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

mahdi_mak2000 said:


> sorry I m a bit dump in technical matters. sync speed 180 technically means at shutter speeds faster than 180 the shutter 2nd curtains start to close before the 1st one fully open. right???
> so flash photography cant be done without HSS, right?



I think you're doing just fine on technical matters.


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## sushyampal (Jun 27, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe they couldn't give a 1/200th sync speed. If they are at 1/18, and if all their other shutters are 1/200th it seems an unnecessary bit of skimpage ...
> ...


Thank you. I was wondering why the 77D had a higher xsync


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## much (Jun 27, 2017)

Canon should now - from me no 4k no canon


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## wildwalker (Jun 27, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Only 2K video? seems a bit disappointing and dated.



2K Video? are you sure? I see 1080P and that is it.


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## wildwalker (Jun 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> One addendum to my last post, though -- I don't think the D750 boo birds aren't going away.
> 
> I'm not _agreeing_ with them one bit, but at a body-feature-level, other than DPAF, I'm hard pressed for a killer spec sheet item on the 6D2 that will turn heads from that camp. (I'm obviously disregarding the intrinsic Canon upsides like ergonomics, EF portfolio, menu setup, reliability, resale, etc.)
> 
> ...



Right, but this is an entry level FF DSLR, that allows any Crop sensor users that have some EF lenses already to move up, stopping migration from Canon to other ecosystems.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 27, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Only 2K video? seems a bit disappointing and dated.
> ...



I presume that's what he meant. Some folks throw around 1920x1080 and 2K interchangeably. 

- A


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## wildwalker (Jun 27, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Inspired said:
> 
> 
> > This is ridiculous.
> ...



Agreed, this is a consumer grade product. A professional will use professional products, 5x and 1x.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Right, but they are not the same thing. Otherwise we would call UHD 8K, and 8K would be 32K!!!!

hehe


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## ahsanford (Jun 27, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Inspired said:
> ...



I think there's a lot more overlap between pro and enthusiast than you think. Pros might use 6Ds and Enthusiasts might own 5- and 1- series cameras.

What I want to know is how 1/180 vs. 1/200 is the end of the world for speedlite users. I rarely use my speedlite, so other than gathering that HSS is not desirable for some needs, can someone please set me straight?


Is this a consideration for crazy bright days and they don't sell dark enough NDs to slow the shutter back down to the sync speed?


Does the difference between 1/180 and 1/200 sync categorically rule out certain types of photography? Is there some moving subject threshold where 1/180 fails and 1/200 nails it?

I appreciate HSS hammers the batteries, but I'm lost how 1/200 is such a pot of gold vs. 1/180 for the sync speed.

I'm not asking as a windup -- I honestly don't understand and would appreciate the education, thx.

- A


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## Proscribo (Jun 27, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...


What? It's *1920*x1080 and 1920 ~ 2000 = 2K, hence "2K". Yes, it's stupid but that's all because some marketing guy thought it'd sound cool if we suddenly started using horizontal resolution with 4K (*3840*x2160 or whatever) instead of vertical resolution as was usually the case with Full HD being referred as "1080p".


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## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

Well, if you think about it :

Full HD 1920 x 1080p - is 2K as 1920 is almost 2000 pixels
And UHD 3840 x 2160 - is 4K as 3840 is almost 4000 pixels. 

It is all correct, Sir. 



wildwalker said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...


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## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

It is all about mismatch between the light meter set in 1/3 of a stop steps and 1/180 being not part of that scale. It is on 1/2 of a stop scale instead. So.. 1/160 and 1/200 are 1/3 of a stop steps. 1/180 is 1/2 of a stop step

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32889.msg671270#msg671270



ahsanford said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...


----------



## Zv (Jun 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



It's pretty much irrelevant when using the flash indoors. Not sure what all the noise is about. Even 1/250s is pathetic and useless when trying to over power the sun or even just add some fill. Also the camera doesn't let me set 1/180 with my manual flash so I end up at 1/160. It's all about controlling the ambient light and having more range just gives more control. A bit like the discussion of max shutter speed of 1/4000 vs 1/8000 (and that one is a full stop so there is at least a case). The difference in the 1/180 vs 1/200 is probably like really blown out background vs blown out background with a few specs of detail. 

Like you mentioned you can just use an ND filter. Personally I've never used an ND as I use the flash indoors mostly in controlled conditions like my home. Using ISO 50 is also an option though one I don't like to use. 

The other issue you might run into is when trying to nuke all background light and have flash as the only light source. That's when a tiny bit of extra shutter speed helps. Again this can usually be fixed in post by adding shadows or blacks and is mostly unnoticeable. 

Edit - also a little trick I sometimes use. I set 1/200 shutter speed and just crop out the black bar caused by the slow shutter curtain. If you shoot vertical it's even less noticeable (use a black background and it's a non issue). With 26Mpix I'm sure there will be enough pixels left after this trick.


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## wildwalker (Jun 27, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> Well, if you think about it :
> 
> Full HD 1920 x 1080p - is 2K as 1920 is almost 2000 pixels
> And UHD 3840 x 2160 - is 4K as 3840 is almost 4000 pixels.
> ...



Well, no, not at all. In the world of video we talk about vertical resolution, not vertical. I think UHD most people understand that this refers to the horizontal resolution, and yes that is just some marketing department going in to overdrive.

But technically, 4K (UHD) is 2160p, as HD is 1080i or 1080p, depending on the flavour.

I think most people understand HD to be 1080 or 720, but that's the issue, HD doesn't mean 1920xanything. It can be 1280x720. I seem to remember HD being anything with a vertical resolution of 720 or about?

Cinema was the only area I though used 2K, and that is because they actually used 2K horizontal (the same as 4K Cinema is 4K (4096) and not the 3840 of Broadcast UHD ))


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## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

Definition of full HD is 1920 x 1080
Definition of UHD is:

Ultra HD. 4K UHD is a resolution of 3840 pixels × 2160 lines (8.3 megapixels, aspect ratio 16:9) and is one of the two resolutions of ultra high definition television targeted towards consumer television, the other being 8K UHD which is 7680 pixels × 4320 lines (33.2 megapixels).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

It is pretty close anyway. Give or take. 

HD was 720, btw. Up from SD )

P.S. I think I get it now... your are talking in 720p, 1080p, 2160p referring to the vertical resolution. Fair enough, but 2K, 4K, whatever K is about the horizontal resolution in thousands of pixels to rounded. So yes 1080p equal 2K and 2160p equal to 4K


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 27, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> MayaTlab said:
> 
> 
> > It isn't an extra set of moving parts to engineer and assemble, for the simple reason that all Canon cameras with a transmissive LCD still use the exact same mechanism usually used to hold in place the focusing screen, even ones such as the 5DIII. In fact it's quite the contrary : cameras on which the focusing screen can't be easily changed have an extra protecting piece in front of the holding mechanism that's hold in place with a few screws and prevents users from directly accessing the locking mechanism.
> ...



No. I didn't make myself clear enough and you didn't watch the video. The mechanism holding the focusing screen on the 5DIII is the EXACT SAME as the one found on cameras such as the 5DII or the 6D (hinged metal frame, tabs, etc.). The screws are only holding the extra part in front of it. 
So in the 5DIII's case, yep, it would have been simpler to make the part directly removable. Making the 5DIII's focusing screen harder to change isn't a question of reducing costs or tightening tolerances. I don't know why there is an extra part in front of the mechanism. It's only speculation on my part, but maybe Canon found it easier to manage dust ingress or light leaks this way.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 27, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> P.S. I think I get it now... your are talking in 720p, 1080p, 2160p referring to the vertical resolution. Fair enough, but 2K, 4K, whatever K is about the horizontal resolution in thousands of pixels to rounded. So yes 1080p equal 2K and 2160p equal to 4K



Correct, in the broadcast world we almost never mention the horizontal resolution, people will just ask, is it 1080? is it 720p etc? 

OTT gets messy as you can have custom resolutions, so you never know what you are going to get!

We talk about UHD in terms of broadcast UHD, so 3840x2160p. However Cinema 4K is actually 4K, ala 4096x3840.

I think the reason for the difference is that early broadcast used 4xHD channels (so 4x1920x1080) to carry UHD systems, then stitched the video back together in a combiner or in the screen itself, hence the 3840 instead of 4096 horizontal resolution for broadcast.


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## MayaTlab (Jun 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



Not only that, but it's ludicrous to think that there is such a thing as a "professional camera". There are professional applications, that's what there are. You don't even need to be a photographer to use your camera for professional reasons. An archeologist documenting a site with his 80D is using his camera for professional reasons and if it fails, the excavation won't stop and patiently wait until Canon services have repaired it. 

I'm ready to bet all my camera equipment that there are more people using Canon cameras other than the 5D and 1D series for professional reasons than 5D and 1D users doing so.


----------



## Diltiazem (Jun 27, 2017)

I always find the comments about a specific camera in a forum like this to be more interesting than the camera itself. 

Despite that, I will be buying the 6D II.


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 27, 2017)

Oh my god the quality of some of the comments is so bad it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

"I can't believe Canon didn't add a card bus much faster than what the camera can actually use" (doubly ludicruous if also referring to some completely unsupported modifications that a group of hackers might be able to come up with in five years, as if Canon had some mandate to add unlockable features to their cameras)

"I can't believe Canon didn't put feature X in this professional-grade camera" when it's abundantly clear that the 6D series is aimed at the enthusiast crowd, with pretty much the exact feature set as in the xxD series. Yes, the 80D has 1/8000s and 1/250s but its shutter is 2.5x lighter and has a 1.6x shorter distance to travel.


----------



## Koen Van de moortel (Jun 27, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Inspired said:
> ...


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

Professional will use whatever gets the job done. there is nothing that can stop a professional photographer from taking professional quaity images with 6D unless you are in highly specialised fast action genre that requires fast moving subject tracking, high frame rate, shooting very large apperture glass wide open (thin DoF) in AF mode or extreme ruggedness of the body (extreme outdoors).
There are plenty of professional photographers shooting with 6Ds out there. Dustin Abbott is one of them.
p.s. I explained the 1/180 <--> 1/160 X-Sync limitation (annoyance) for the studio photographers who routinely use light meters a few post above.



Koen Van de moortel said:


> Agreed, this is a consumer grade product. A professional will use professional products, 5x and 1x.


----------



## aceflibble (Jun 27, 2017)

12 pages of comments and only about 4 people have demonstrated they grasp what this camera is for.

This, people, is why companies like Canon don't pay much attention to user/fan forums. Y'all are getting pissy that they've not made a 1DX2 at half the size and a fifth the price.


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## Redline (Jun 27, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> 12 pages of comments and only about 4 people have demonstrated they grasp what this camera is for.
> 
> This, people, is why companies like Canon don't pay much attention to user/fan forums. Y'all are getting pissy that they've not made a 1DX2 at half the size and a fifth the price.



Yep.

I was telling my g/f last night how much I enjoy reading everyone complaining about what they want for so much less. Just I didn't confuse her with all the camera lingo, I told her it's like reading reviews of people that bought a brand new Camry and they're whining because their suspension is poor or the road noise is terrible and expect a Lexus performance out of a $25,000 car. Come on people...

It's one thing to wish certain features but no, one is not enough. For all we know someone out there is complaining about the new 6D MKII box having sharp corners :


----------



## cerealito (Jun 27, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> Y'all are getting pissy that they've not made a 1DX2 at half the size and a fifth the price.



that would still lack a vari-angle lcd screen ;D


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## ExodistPhotography (Jun 27, 2017)

ScottyP said:


> I can't believe they couldn't give a 1/200th sync speed. If they are at 1/18, and if all their other shutters are 1/200th it seems an unnecessary bit of skimpage but oh well. I'll still buy it.



I agree.. 1/180th??? What is this 1990..


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## tron (Jun 27, 2017)

The 1/180 vs 1/200 comments make me want to say:

26.2 million pixels only ? ? ? ? This is 2017. The camera should have at least 26.4 million pixels ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Klimbim (Jun 27, 2017)

tron said:


> The 1/180 vs 1/200 comments make me want to say:
> 
> 26.2 million pixels only ? ? ? ? This is 2017. The camera should have at least 26.4 million pixels ;D ;D ;D ;D



I really don't get it, what is the deal about the 1/180 vs. 1/200? What limitations does that mean for someone in realworld conditions? Can someone give me an example? That is a real question, as I love taking pictures with flashlight. Baybe I am not aware of something...


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32889.msg671270#msg671270

very real, first hand experience. I hope it helps.



Klimbim said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > The 1/180 vs 1/200 comments make me want to say:
> ...


----------



## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

lourenco said:


> Scroll down to the 1/2 power. It looks like that. I am between 1/4 to 1/2 power on the flash heads. Keep in mind the heads are 640 watts each and I am using big aluminum dish long throw reflector. If I am 1/4 to 1/2 power level ,I can take a 2nd or 3rd photo without having to wait for the flash to cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> I.E. The highest wheelie i had of this car was on the 3rd shot. I try to make my best guess at when I should take the photo, but some wheelie higher.



oh wow, I totally missed that. Hah!

I've always considered the hypersync/supersync/whatever anyone else calls it workaround to be a "full power only" solution, but I can see how the pattern for the 1DX can be useful to you since you can just crop the top/bottom.


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## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

Zv said:


> It's pretty much irrelevant when using the flash indoors. Not sure what all the noise is about. Even 1/250s is pathetic and useless when trying to over power the sun or even just add some fill. Also the camera doesn't let me set 1/180 with my manual flash so I end up at 1/160. It's all about controlling the ambient light and having more range just gives more control. A bit like the discussion of max shutter speed of 1/4000 vs 1/8000 (and that one is a full stop so there is at least a case). The difference in the 1/180 vs 1/200 is probably like really blown out background vs blown out background with a few specs of detail.
> 
> Like you mentioned you can just use an ND filter. Personally I've never used an ND as I use the flash indoors mostly in controlled conditions like my home. Using ISO 50 is also an option though one I don't like to use.
> 
> ...



This is how I see it. It's a bit of an annoyance because it changes your metering from 1/3 stops to 1/2 stops for SS, without changing it for aperture (or on your flash meter), but it's not the end of the world, just means doing some extra thinking. Whether you buy a 6D, 5D, or 1DX, you still need a lot of freaking power to overcome the sun because we don't have good global e-shutter yet. Someday, Someday...

I read Mark Kitaoka's writeup on using the Godox/Adorama 1200W head for the AD600 (wire 2 together - supposedly a 4 unit 2400W head is coming too) in the Mohave, and was very impressed. That is a lot of power for not a lot (relatively) of money, on li-ion battery packs to boot.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> It is all about mismatch between the light meter set in 1/3 of a stop steps and 1/180 being not part of that scale. It is on 1/2 of a stop scale instead. So.. 1/160 and 1/200 are 1/3 of a stop steps. 1/180 is 1/2 of a stop step
> 
> http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32889.msg671270#msg671270



Sorry, I don't get the problem. The 6D/6DII have a 1/4000 s max shutter speed, but that doesn't mean you must take every shot at 1/4000 s. No one is forcing you to set your shutter speed at the 1/180 s Xsync, either (in fact, to set that speed, you must change your camera from the default 1/3-stop increment to 1/2-stop increments, and most of us are 'trained' to think in 1/3-stops). More likely, you'll just leave the camera at the default increment, and use 1/160 s if you want to reduce ambient as much as possible. It's hard to imagine a situation where that 1/6-stop would have a meaningful impact on a shot. Use 1/160 s, there's no problem...except that little niggle in your head that you're not using the fastest possible shutter with flash. But if that bothers you, so should taking a shot at 1/3200 s, or driving around without your gas pedal floored. 

Now, if what you _really_ mean is that you want 1/200 s Xsync and not lower, that's a different problem (and quite different from how you framed the issue). In that case, don't buy a 6DII.


----------



## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > It is all about mismatch between the light meter set in 1/3 of a stop steps and 1/180 being not part of that scale. It is on 1/2 of a stop scale instead. So.. 1/160 and 1/200 are 1/3 of a stop steps. 1/180 is 1/2 of a stop step
> ...



It will actually let you set it to 1/180 even in 1/3 stop mode , provided you have a TTL flash attached, which is kind of a weird UI quirk. (You set 1/200, it drops it to 1/180 if the flash is attached and ready to fire automatically)

But yeah, still not a dramatic problem.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

tr573 said:


> It will actually let you set it to 1/180 even in 1/3 stop mode , provided you have a TTL flash attached, which is kind of a weird UI quirk. (You set 1/200, it drops it to 1/180 if the flash is attached and ready to fire automatically)
> 
> But yeah, still not a dramatic problem.



Didn't know that, thanks. But you can still set 1/160 s, I presume...in which case it's consistent with the 1/3-stop increments of the light meter (assuming that 1/6-stop matters for the ambient lighting, which as I stated, I don't think is a credible assertion).


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## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Didn't know that, thanks. But you can still set 1/160 s, I presume...in which case it's consistent with the 1/3-stop increments of the light meter (assuming that 1/6-stop matters for the ambient lighting, which as I stated, I don't think is a credible assertion).



Yup, you can.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

ok, there is no problem.. I do use 1/160s shutter of course. the annoyance is not being able to use the X-Sync speed to it fullest extent - 1/180 . I mentioned few times: no problem there. it just does not quite make sense, a silly number , cause it is somewhat in between.
As you know, ambient light is never an issue shooting in studio  especially if you normaly shoot at flash to ambient ration being 100/0  



> .except that little niggle in your head that you're not using the fastest possible shutter with flash



yes, you get it!  the annoyance of something that is not quite as you would like it to be. I know about compromises in my life full well. Thank you!
but.. for the same "convenience" reason Mr. Neuro owns how many photo bags of various sizes and how many tripods?  because we like things being convenient , sensible, well designed and appropiate for the task.
once again, no complaining. I love my 6Ds, but few things are sub optimal for my use but still manageable.

P.S. yes, you can get to 1/180s and 1/3 of shutter in AV mode. ettl or not. but not the use case I am talking about:
1. you do not shoot in studio in ETTL or Av / Tv mode, do you? 
2.being issue only if you have to use light meter. here is the routing:
set light meter to "T" mode, select you shutter speed - bang! you cannot set the 1/180 shutter speed in lightmeter unless you switched your lightmeter to 1/2 of a stop mode.
but once you did that, your resulting F number will be displayed in 1/2 stop increments as well and you have your F stop set in camera in 1/3 of a stop increments..
solution #1: set T value in light meter at 1/160 and carry on.
solution #2: set light meter in full stop increments. and get all values indicated in 1/10 of a stop increments. That realy does my head, sorry  as you deal with values like: F2.2 (two and two tenth), 4.7 (4 and 7 tenth), and have to convert hundred times backwards and forwards those numbers into traditional 1/3 of a stop scale. Waaaay to much for my weak brain 





neuroanatomist said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > It is all about mismatch between the light meter set in 1/3 of a stop steps and 1/180 being not part of that scale. It is on 1/2 of a stop scale instead. So.. 1/160 and 1/200 are 1/3 of a stop steps. 1/180 is 1/2 of a stop step
> ...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> yes, you get it!  the annoyance of something that is not quite as you would like it to be. I know about compromises in my life full well. Thank you!
> but.. for the same "convenience" reason Mr. Neuro owns how many photo bags of various sizes and how many *tripods*?  because we like thing being convenient , sensible, well designed and appropiate for the task.



Sure, but I don't complain when I use them at a height lower than their maximum possible, I just use them at the height that's appropriate to the situation. Kinda like setting 1/160 s instead of 1/180 s.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

yes, 10 times yes. I am saying: it would be sooooo much better if .... you know the rest. 
but then I would not consider purchasing 5D body, would I? 




neuroanatomist said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > yes, you get it!  the annoyance of something that is not quite as you would like it to be. I know about compromises in my life full well. Thank you!
> ...


----------



## amorse (Jun 27, 2017)

Any word on weather sealing?

I felt that the original 6D was sufficient for my needs, but I wouldn't want to take a step back. No doubt it won't be on par with the 5D IV, but equivalent to the 6D would be a treat! Hoping that wasn't a casualty of the articulating screen...

That's probably my biggest deciding factor remaining between the 5D IV and 6D II


----------



## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

amorse said:


> Any word on weather sealing?
> 
> I felt that the original 6D was sufficient for my needs, but I wouldn't want to take a step back. No doubt it won't be on par with the 5D IV, but equivalent to the 6D would be a treat! Hoping that wasn't a casualty of the articulating screen...
> 
> That's probably my biggest deciding factor remaining between the 5D IV and 6D II



I'm consulting my crystal ball....

There is a 99.999999999% chance that Canon will describe the weather sealing as follows:

"The protection provided by the design and sealing is equivalent to that of the EOS-1N film camera; the weather-sealing standard by which other professional cameras were judged."


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## amorse (Jun 27, 2017)

tr573 said:


> amorse said:
> 
> 
> > Any word on weather sealing?
> ...



I don't know what I expected. I guess I'll need to wait for a teardown.


----------



## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

amorse said:


> tr573 said:
> 
> 
> > amorse said:
> ...



That's pretty much it, yeah. Canon describes the weather sealing in every XXD and XD camera with that phrase, so their marketing words are completely meaningless.


----------



## Uneternal (Jun 27, 2017)

Can't believe they have the nerve, after all the criticism the 6D got for being crippled, to put 1/180 xsync and 1/4000 sync AGAIN while even lowest models got 1/200 xsync.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

Uneternal said:


> Can't believe they have the nerve, after all the criticism the 6D got for being crippled, to put 1/180 xsync and 1/4000 sync AGAIN while even lowest models got 1/200 xsync.



Remind me, which 'lowest models' got 1/200 s Xsync? Oh, you mean the ones with smaller APS-C sensors, where the curtains don't need to move as far. Yeah, got it. 

While your at it, please describe the effect 'all the criticism the 6D got for being crippled' had on unit sales. LOL. :


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 27, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Uneternal said:
> 
> 
> > Can't believe they have the nerve, after all the criticism the 6D got for being crippled, to put 1/180 xsync and 1/4000 sync AGAIN while even lowest models got 1/200 xsync.
> ...



That's usually true for shutter speed limits in FF cameras at these price points, but:

D610: 1/200 sync
D750: 1/200 sync
A7 II: 1/250 sync (also: 1/8000 shutter)
K-1: 1/200 sync (also: 1/8000 shutter)

Again, I don't think it's a massive deal -- but the grass is technically 1/6 of a stop greener on the other side for this metric. 

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 27, 2017)

OK, I am going to explain this one more time....

A crop camera has a smaller shutter than a FF shutter. It is half the weight and only has to move 60 percent as far.

A crop camera has a smaller mirror than a FF mirror. It is half the weight and only has to move 60 percent as far.

This means that it takes a much more expensive mirror in a FF camera to get the same performance as in a crop camera... This has absolutely NOTHING to do with crippling, marketing, nerfing, or some insidious plot.... it is PHYSICS!

There is a very good reason why the 6D2 does not have an expensive shutter like the 5D4..... It is a $2000 camera and not a $3500 camera. Yes, Canon could have put a more expensive mirror in the 6D2. They could also have put in dual memory slots. The could have given us better video (4K) and the computing power/architecture to handle it (dual digic)..... They could have even added in some more AF points and improved on the metering..... Oh wait! They did! It's the 5D4!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Uneternal said:
> ...



Indeed it is. But that doesn't preclude it being a techincal limitation on Canon's part. Note that the Nikon D610 and D750 have shutters rated for 150,000 cycles, while the 6D has only a 100,000 actuation rating (5DIII/IV are rated for 150K), consistent with my thinking that the 6D has a less robust shutter assembly, which necessates slower-moving curtains and a slower Xsync.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

with side effect being the much quieter shutter in 6D. Sold! 



neuroanatomist said:


> Indeed it is. But that doesn't preclude it being a techincal limitation on Canon's part. Note that the Nikon D610 and D750 have shutters rated for 150,000 cycles, while the 6D has only a 100,000 actuation rating (5DIII/IV are rated for 150K), consistent with my thinking that the 6D has a less robust shutter assembly, which necessates slower-moving curtains and a slower Xsync.


----------



## Sporgon (Jun 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Uneternal said:
> ...



The grass may technically be greener by 1/6th of a stop, put in practice it is clearly more like 2 stops !


----------



## ShootTheStars12 (Jun 27, 2017)

I think I am the ideal target for this camera. I started out with an SL1 and learned the ropes of DSLR's with that camera. I now am ready to upgrade to a FF camera. To me, 4K video would've been nice, but I don't really care too much. I care about fantastic pictures, and the 4K timelapse feature sounds like a lot of fun to me!

I was hoping some experts here could help me out deciding between this 6D II and the Pentax K-1. I travel a lot, and love getting great travel shots, and I am dying to do astrophotography. Those are my 2 main uses. What are the opinions here on the pros and cons of these 2 budget-friendly (sorta?) cameras for me?


----------



## chrysoberyl (Jun 27, 2017)

ShootTheStars12 said:


> I think I am the ideal target for this camera. I started out with an SL1 and learned the ropes of DSLR's with that camera. I now am ready to upgrade to a FF camera. To me, 4K video would've been nice, but I don't really care too much. I care about fantastic pictures, and the 4K timelapse feature sounds like a lot of fun to me!
> 
> I was hoping some experts here could help me out deciding between this 6D II and the Pentax K-1. I travel a lot, and love getting great travel shots, and I am dying to do astrophotography. Those are my 2 main uses. What are the opinions here on the pros and cons of these 2 budget-friendly (sorta?) cameras for me?



I looked into the K-1 and lost interest because Canon glass apparently cannot be adapted to it. There is quite a selection of third party glass for it, though. I will go with the 6D II, because of my glass selection, and because I rarely have good conditions for astro.


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## Talys (Jun 27, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> OK, I am going to explain this one more time....
> 
> A crop camera has a smaller shutter than a FF shutter. It is half the weight and only has to move 60 percent as far.
> 
> ...



But, but, the 6D2 needs to have everything the 5D4 has, but better, smaller, and lighter. Otherwise, Canon will surely be *******! Camera bodies and lenses should miniaturize, improve in capabilities, and have prices that hit the floor like be like PCs, tablets and smartphones!


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

Oh, what a drivel... never mind.

Any ideas what the buffer capacity of 6D II will be like? With 6.5 shots per second, would buffer last for 5 seconds at least?


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## Skywise (Jun 27, 2017)

So uh... built in stereo mic?


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## tron (Jun 27, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> Oh, what a drivel... never mind.
> 
> Any ideas what the buffer capacity of 6D II will be like? With 6.5 shots per second, would buffer last for 5 seconds at least?


I am not optimistic and card speed will not help much either. But as this camera is more of an entry level type I wouldn't hope much. I believe that the main power of this camera will be its IQ (shadows, high iso, anything) at a price that will possibly get lower and lower during time (judging from 6D).


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 27, 2017)

Hi tron,

My 6D buffer lasts for about 5-6 seconds but that's at 4.5 frames per second. 25-27 frames in average. I have to mind as to how fast I am clicking away. i cannot afford any less than that though. I hope Canon was generous enough to include a bit larger buffer in 6D II.




tron said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, what a drivel... never mind.
> ...


----------



## tron (Jun 27, 2017)

A trick use (also to reduce vibration) is to use silent shooting which lowers the rate significantly. That way I extend the duration of continuous shooting (assuming the lower rate is acceptable of course).


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 27, 2017)

tron said:


> A trick use (also to reduce vibration) is to use silent shooting which lowers the rate significantly. That way I extend the duration of continuous shooting (assuming the lower rate is acceptable of course).



At 6.5fps the 6D2 will probably also get a slower non-silent burst mode like the 80D and co. Though I guess it's somewhat redundant given the silent continuous mode.


----------



## malarcky (Jun 27, 2017)

"ML never works on Dual Pixel cameras.
just forget it."
That was a quote by a poster.
I don't know about that. 

http://www.cameraegg.org/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-now-cracked-by-magic-lantern/


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## smithcon (Jun 27, 2017)

I don't really do video with my DSLR, so the no 4K is only a minor resale value risk for me. Other than not offering hardware IBIS for stills (and I did not expect that but held out a tiny bit of hope), the 6d Mark II looks like it has everything I was hoping for. The tilty-flippy screen is the most anticipated upgrade for me, especially with DPAF, which looks absolutely amazing for live view focusing. If I stay Canon, I will definitely upgrade from my 6d to the Mark II just for that. I like to do a lot of unconventional viewpoint shooting, and I'm getting a little old to be laying on my stomach or cramming my head into tight corners. 

Now that Canon has announced this, my dilemma is whether to sacrifice IBIS and stay with Canon and my EOS EF lens collection, or wait for an IBIS-equipped Sony with a proper tilty-flippy screen (which might never come) and better menu ergonomics and low light focusing (sounds like the flagship A9 made huge progress in low light focusing and better menu ergonomics, etc, so some of that will likely swim downstream). No doubt it would be much less expensive for me to stay Canon because of my lenses, and I really want to do so, but my love for IBIS is deep -- I spent a day with an A7R II and came away in love with IBIS (and also with a love for full tilty-flippy screens over just the tilt screen of the A7R II). 

My ideal camera would be a Canon EOS FF DSLR with full IBIS AND a tilty-flippy screen, which does exist from anyone but should be possible to produce. That would be one amazingly flexible creative photography tool, and my lenses would really throw a party.

My lenses will most likely find themselves happily on the end of a 6D Mark II soon; I'll wait to see how it performs in thorough reviews, but I would be surprised if the reviews on still performance and ergonomics weren't very good.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> How can the justification be made that the 1/180 flash sync speed is due to the full frame sensor when other manufacturers are at 1/200 and above?



As I stated above, the 6D's shutter is rated for 100,000 actuations, whereas the other 'entry-level' FF dSLRs are rated higher, the Nikon D610 is rated for 150,000 (as is the step-up D750), and the Pentak K-1 is rated for 300,000. That suggests that Canon's shutter mechanism is less robust, and perhaps cannot move the curtains as fast as the Nikon/Pentax dSLRs. If that hypothesis is correct, I'd suggest you head over to the Nikon forums and ask how they can justify the D610 and D750 being limited to 1/4000 s (the Pentax K-1 does 1/8000 s, like the D810/D5).




jayt567 said:


> Also how does that explain the 5D iv going from 1/250 down to 1/200?



Sorry...but what are you talking about? The Xsync for the 5D, 5DII, 5DIII, and 5Ds/R are all 1/200 s. Just like the 5DIV. Among FF cameras, only the 1-series manages an Xsync of 1/250 s. The higher end APS-C cameras (7-series, 80D) also have a 1/250 s Xsync, thanks to the smaller sensor.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> So I should be celebrating a less robust shutter mechanism for more money.......got it!



You asked for 'justification', and I provided a plausible technical rationale. If you don't like the 6DII, don't buy it...get it?


----------



## Adelino (Jun 27, 2017)

When will reviews start coming out?


----------



## unfocused (Jun 27, 2017)

Adelino said:


> When will reviews start coming out?



Well...it's got to be released first. 

You can expect some "first look" type of reviews almost immediately, but those won't be particularly enlightening. 

Moe thorough reviews will take some time.


----------



## Uneternal (Jun 27, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> How can the justification be made that the 1/180 flash sync speed is due to the full frame sensor when other manufacturers are at 1/200 and above? Also how does that explain the 5D iv going from 1/250 down to 1/200? Look guys, I've been a long time Canon user but you have to admit that Canon seems content with slightly besting their last offering rather than matching or beating competitors features. Throw us a bone and at least remove the low pass filter so at least sharpness is one less thing Nikon and Sony users can throw in our face! Not trolling, but honestly... how many years since the original 6d and the engineers can't make 1/200 sync a possibility. I'm sorry but I have a hard time buying that. I would rather they have added a couple more upgrades to the 6d line and removed all video functionality leaving that as an upgrade feature to the 5D line.
> Now some will say video may not be important to me but is to others, true enough, but same can be said about flash sync speed and sharpness. I also don't buy the theory of Canon being afraid to canibalize the 5D sales. Selling too many products is never a bad thing for profits. I'm no mathematician but 2 6d's = $4,000.....1 5D = $3,300. Selling less products than your competition due to less innovation is where you lose. But then again Canon know's that with the substantial investments we made in lenses and accessories, none of us are going anywhere, so why innovate too much too soon. Just frosts my cookies that the yet to be released 6Dii is behind in features of the D750 which is about to be replaced itself! And to charge an extra $200.00 to cancel out the low pass filter and provide the sharpness we should be getting to start with is a crime!
> Sorry to rant on, guess I need to get out shooting and relax....lol.


----------



## Besisika (Jun 27, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> jayt567 said:
> 
> 
> > Also how does that explain the 5D iv going from 1/250 down to 1/200?
> ...


And to be honest I never felt comfortable shooting at 1/200th sec on my 5D III. I always shoot at 1/160th. I don't even remember why. On the 1D I shoot 1/250th all the time, unless I need more ambient light.


----------



## Jopa (Jun 28, 2017)

schmidtfilme said:


> Is there a FF nanoUSM or STM that performs great AF during video?



Try the 24-105 STM IS. It's not terribly bright, but the AF is smooth and quiet, plus IS helps to avoid handheld jittering. There is not much offerings for FF unfortunately...


----------



## justawriter (Jun 28, 2017)

Yet another camera that doesn't include a microwave oven and a built in unicorn that farts colored candy sprinkles. Obviously Canon cares nothing for the serious camera user. ;D


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## SecureGSM (Jun 28, 2017)

unicorns usualy fart with rainbows. My 12 y.o. knows this for a fact.
I will pass on the microwave but would gladly take AF joystick instead, just for, you know, the quick management of those excellent 45 cross point AF points included. That would get me buy this camera in an instant. actually, two of these, thanks. I realise that it is an unreasonable expectation though as this is a PRO feature and cannot be offered with an Entry Level FF camera. And no, increased cost argument does not hold the water. we are talking few dollars if not cents here. 





justawriter said:


> Yet another camera that doesn't include a microwave oven and a built in unicorn that farts colored candy sprinkles. Obviously Canon cares nothing for the serious camera user. ;D


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## Luds34 (Jun 28, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> How can the justification be made that the 1/180 flash sync speed is due to the full frame sensor when other manufacturers are at 1/200 and above?
> 
> Sorry to rant on, guess I need to get out shooting and relax....lol.



Just a point of reference, the Fuji X-T10, X-T1, and X-E2 all have a max flash sync speed of 1/180th and they are crop to boot. (I think it has been improved with the X-T2)

Yes, I'd recommend more shooting and relaxing.


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## hgraf (Jun 28, 2017)

Besisika said:


> And to be honest I never felt comfortable shooting at 1/200th sec on my 5D III. I always shoot at 1/160th. I don't even remember why. On the 1D I shoot 1/250th all the time, unless I need more ambient light.



I'm the same. The reason for me is that depending on what kind of slave flashes you are using they may not react quick enough for 1/200th. Shooting at 1/160th has always resolved that problem for me.


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 28, 2017)

Besisika said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > jayt567 said:
> ...



Well, if the leaked features are as accurate as leaked announcement dates (M20 was supposed to be announced just yesterday), maybe there is some chance, that the x-sync time is going to be 1/200 after all


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 28, 2017)

I have no experience with time lapse so what exactly would be in the menu for this feature; briefly how will it work. I realize that over time periodic shots are taken but would appreciate a little camera specific detail. Would this in any way impact the slow shutter speed capability say for stary sky night shots?

Jack


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## jim_jim_s (Jun 28, 2017)

i am excited for 6d2, but no any news from canon japan website until this moment...


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## Zv (Jun 28, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> unicorns usualy fart with rainbows. My 12 y.o. knows this for a fact.
> I will pass on the microwave but would gladly take AF joystick instead, just for, you know, the quick management of those excellent 45 cross point AF points included. That would get me buy this camera in an instant. actually, two of these, thanks. I realise that it is an unreasonable expectation though as this is a PRO feature and cannot be offered with an Entry Level FF camera. And no, increased cost argument does not hold the water. we are talking few dollars if not cents here.
> 
> 
> ...



Just my opinion based on 7D and 5DII joystick but I found it a bit finicky moving points diagonally. Maybe I'm used to the dial/wheel but I find it faster and less infuriating than the d pad or joystick. I also don't tend to drastically move from one corner point to another in quick succession. That's just my style of shooting though (slow). YMMV


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## PBguy (Jun 28, 2017)

Anyone else think that a Thursday announcement date would be strange especially considering it's right before a huge American holiday weekend? I'm starting to wonder if that rumor was wrong. At least I don't have to wait long to find out.


----------



## BeenThere (Jun 28, 2017)

PBguy said:


> Anyone else think that a Thursday announcement date would be strange especially considering it's right before a huge American holiday weekend? I'm starting to wonder if that rumor was wrong. At least I don't have to wait long to find out.


Decided to add joy stick and move to a 2018 release date.


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## Sporgon (Jun 28, 2017)

Zv said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > unicorns usualy fart with rainbows. My 12 y.o. knows this for a fact.
> ...



+1

I have found exactly the same thing. For me at any rate the joystick doesn't work well diagonally. Because of this I have my 5Ds set to using the rear command wheel to move the focus point in a loop, and aperture or EC is achieved by pressing top rear left button whilst using front command wheel, like a rebel in fact. 

However Canon don't give us this option on the 6D, and it's a pretty sh**** wheel anyway. I'm guessing that the 6DII won't have the option either.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Just my opinion based on 7D and 5DII joystick but I found it a bit finicky moving points diagonally.
> ...



I found that to be true with my 7D (the 'over-and-down/up' two-step became natural), but the joystick on the 1D X handles diagonal movement just fine.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 28, 2017)

I would imaging that this 'over-and-down/up' two-step AF point selection technique with AF joystick is way more comfortable than: press AF- point selection button, scroll dial/wheel through 45 AF points, half press shutter button to get out of AF point selection mode instead... 



neuroanatomist said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...


----------



## Zv (Jun 28, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> I would imaging that this 'over-and-down/up' two-step AF point selection technique with AF joystick is way more comfortable than: press AF- point selection button, scroll dial/wheel through 45 AF points, half press shutter button to get out of AF point selection mode instead...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like most things in life you get used to it and the process doesn't seem quite as complex when you don't have to think about it. 

Think of all the processes and decisions involved in starting your car and reversing out the driveway. I bet you don't even think about it your brain is on auto pilot but there's a lot going on and if you list it all it sounds incredibly complicated. 

Yes, using a 1DX joystick is beautifully ergonomic and a breeze to use but once you get used to a camera it's second nature. And since I've (and many many others) have been shooting with a 6D, that doesn't have a joystick, for several years now, if and when we upgrade to the MkII it will feel right at home. The adjustment period will be instantaneous. Call me optimistic!


----------



## Sporgon (Jun 28, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> I would imaging that this 'over-and-down/up' two-step AF point selection technique with AF joystick is way more comfortable than: press AF- point selection button, scroll dial/wheel through 45 AF points, half press shutter button to get out of AF point selection mode instead...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



None of that with the 5 series. Just set it up in the custom menu - AF direct to rear command wheel, twirl the wheel and you're away, sending your AF point round and round


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 28, 2017)

Long ago I commented about the 6D "equivalent joystick" being pretty handy for reviewing photos and my only complaint was that if you were not using a pointed small finger or finger nail you'd be hitting more than you wished, at one time. I've been hoping they'd enlarge the wheel and then I'd be happy, and I'm saying this after using the 1DX2 joystick for a few months now and finding it a wee bit awkward at times.

Jack


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## Deepboy (Jun 28, 2017)

I have 6D and i had 5D Mark II, so i used both the joystick from the latter and the "inner-wheel-joystick" on the 6D; and i just used 3 days ago a 5D Mark III for a couple of hours doing backstage shot in a studio where i was assisting a photographer, and well, you'll kill me but i can say FOR ME (personal preference) the one in the 6D is WAY more comfortable than the one on 5D serie, i find that one too sensibile and completely unusable.
But i have to say i never used a camera with more than 9 AF point before the Mark III, and i use it for not so long, so i honetly don't know if you handle AF points selection better with the joystick than the "wheel-joystick"...but we'll se, ad i think i'll be an eraly purchaser of the 6D Mark II.

I also wanted double card slot and sh*t, but i had to be realist, if i want that i should go for a 5D, Canon would not insert the double slot on the next 6D due to price and to market strategy to have different layers of cameras. Fot the FHD vs 4K no problem, i don't have 4k monitor, nor a 4k tv, nor a computer able to handle such resolution and file sizes, so i'm totally fine with a nice FHD if they worked on that removing banding, rolling shutter, etc. 

But, just tell me, am i the only one here who does NOT absolutely like the idea of the articulated screen? I find it useless for what i do, it's something that could be damaged because there's extra mechanics and extra electric stuff compared to a fixed screen...i'll buy the Mark II anyway, but honestly is very disappointing for me (again, i'm talking for myself), i found that absolutely unattractive, i have a backup 60D since 3 year and i don't remember a single time i used the screen outside its slot.

Anyway, that just confirm that for Canon this camera is aimed mostly at prosumers, but i'm totally fine, as it's the photographer that gives professionality or not, and not the marketing strategy of the manufacturers. An amateur with a 1Dx Mk II will always remain an amateur, while a professional with a 1300D and a 18-55 kit lens will always get professional results with controlled conditions.

So don't whine on what you shuld have wanted or not  just buy the camera that better fits your needs and that you can afford, no matter you call yourself amateur or professional...i read lot of people talking about Sony...well, god bless, buy Sony, why do you need to fight on a forum just to defend one brand or another? I wanted a 5D Mark IV, or better a 1Dx Mk II, but i know my pictures won't be improved, and also i can't afford them anyway. I'll buy my new 6D Mark II and i'll live peacefully


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## foo (Jun 28, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> I have no experience with time lapse so what exactly would be in the menu for this feature; briefly how will it work. I realize that over time periodic shots are taken but would appreciate a little camera specific detail. Would this in any way impact the slow shutter speed capability say for stary sky night shots?



Can't say what the 6D2 will be like, on the 5D4 you set the number of shots up to 3600 and the interval, the shutter speed is based on what you could set in movie mode which appears to leave you with a range of 1/25-1/4000
The camera goes off and takes the images, and assembles the movie. you don't get the individual images saved.

The 5D4 also has an intervalometer mode where you just get the individual images saved to do with as you wish later, however only up to 30 sec exposures. 5D4 also has a bulb mode timer, but you don't seem to be able to combine bulb mode timer with the intervalometer

Probably safe to assume that the 6D2 will lose some of the features of the 5D4


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2017)

foo said:


> Probably safe to assume that the 6D2 will lose some of the features of the 5D4


----------



## chrysoberyl (Jun 28, 2017)

Epaminonda said:


> But, just tell me, am i the only one here who does NOT absolutely like the idea of the articulated screen? I find it useless for what i do, it's something that could be damaged because there's extra mechanics and extra electric stuff compared to a fixed screen...i'll buy the Mark II anyway, but honestly is very disappointing for me (again, i'm talking for myself), i found that absolutely unattractive, i have a backup 60D since 3 year and i don't remember a single time i used the screen outside its slot.



The articulating screen is important to me. I do close-ups and macro in the wild, and am tired of groveling the mud or fighting the sun.


----------



## dlee13 (Jun 29, 2017)

I keep refreshing the Canon Rumors page hoping to see it's officially announced so I can run into a store and preorder! I managed to sell my 6D yesterday so I'm all ready for the upgrade


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

@ foo Thanks for that. It sounds useful.

@ dlee13 Mine is selling in about 1/2 hour sold and I'm not the least bit concerned about regretting the cost of the upgrade.

Jack


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## Salleen (Jun 29, 2017)

Let's hear the shutter sound 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJXTe1of-oQ


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## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

A bit more.

http://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-6d-mark-ii/specifications/

Jack


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## daphins (Jun 29, 2017)

There was a review that specifically said that the 6D MKii doesn't produce Dual Pixel RAWs? Surely, the reviewer is wrong? It has DPAF, so why wouldn't it produce RAW's?


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## Mikehit (Jun 29, 2017)

daphins said:


> There was a review that specifically said that the 6D MKii doesn't produce Dual Pixel RAWs? Surely, the reviewer is wrong? It has DPAF, so why wouldn't it produce RAW's?



Because it is not designed to?
I am not sure if you misunderstand what 'Dual Pixel Raw' actually is. generates its


----------



## daphins (Jun 29, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> daphins said:
> 
> 
> > There was a review that specifically said that the 6D MKii doesn't produce Dual Pixel RAWs? Surely, the reviewer is wrong? It has DPAF, so why wouldn't it produce RAW's?
> ...



Admittedly, I'm not a camera Techie (I'm upgrading from a 60D). From my understanding, the MKii had DPAutofocus which makes it super-snappy. DPRAW is a RAW file that essentially contains two images so you can make very slight tweaks in focus during post production.

My question is, does the 6D MKii not produce the DPRAW files? I'm looking at the MKIV which apparently does produce DPRAW files...I don't see that listed anywhere in the official Canon Spec's. They both produce JPEG, and RAW (14 bit canon Original). They have mRAW, sRAW, and Large/RAW. 

Where is DPRAW? And can the MKii produce it?


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 29, 2017)

daphins said:


> Admittedly, I'm not a camera Techie (I'm upgrading from a 60D). From my understanding, the MKii had DPAutofocus which makes it super-snappy. DPRAW is a RAW file that essentially contains two images so you can make very slight tweaks in focus during post production.
> 
> My question is, does the 6D MKii not produce the DPRAW files? I'm looking at the MKIV which apparently does produce DPRAW files...I don't see that listed anywhere in the official Canon Spec's. They both produce JPEG, and RAW (14 bit canon Original). They have mRAW, sRAW, and Large/RAW.
> 
> Where is DPRAW? And can the MKii produce it?



You seem to have got the correct understanding.
It all depends on if the 6D2 has the software to record the two sets of data - it is by no means a given. If you think about it, the 5DIV was bot the first camera to have Dual Pixel focussing but was the first one to have DP Raw. I have been distinctly underwhelmed by comments on it so far.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> daphins said:
> 
> 
> > Admittedly, I'm not a camera Techie (I'm upgrading from a 60D). From my understanding, the MKii had DPAutofocus which makes it super-snappy. DPRAW is a RAW file that essentially contains two images so you can make very slight tweaks in focus during post production.
> ...



Many Canon ILCs – ranging from the M and Rebel/xxxD lines to the 1D X II – have DPAF. Only one Canon ILC – the 5DIV – has DP RAW capability.


----------



## daphins (Jun 29, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > daphins said:
> ...



Gotcha, that's where the discrepancy is. I thought I had read that Canon was committed to putting DPRAW in all of their new sensor cameras, but it appears that it was DPAF they committed to.

NBD, I'd probably not use it often anyway, but it is a little disappointing as I'm a low-light photographer that usually has razer-thin focusing situations with ultra-wide apertures. Not a deal breaker, I've been waiting to move to full-frame from my 60D.

Thanks!


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## pokerz (Jun 30, 2017)

1080 60p till 2022
good job Canon!


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

pokerz said:


> 1080 60p till 2022
> good job Canon!


So buy something else.


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## Mikehit (Jun 30, 2017)

pokerz said:


> 1080 60p till 2022
> good job Canon!



Why is that a problem?


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

Oh, it's not 4k, Mike - a catastrophe, as we all know...


----------



## traveller (Jun 30, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> Oh, it's not 4k, Mike - a catastrophe, as we all know...



It's not a catastrophe, but it is a marketing blunder. It's given every camera reviewer out there an easy negative headline. Buyers make all kinds of purchasing decisions based upon specifications that they'll never actually use, but like to have "just in case". Include any kind of crippled 4K mode so that the box is ticked: "it has 4K, but the xx rate/crop is only yy" is a far less potent criticism (especially for those that don't really need the functionality) than a simple "doesn't have". Marketing is not about appealing to the rational.


----------



## ronaldbyram (Jun 30, 2017)

Reading the initial reviews from folks and everyone screaming NO 4K NO 4K.
But from a business side of things.. I wish it had 4k, but if it did.. this would kill the sales of the 5D4?
I'm I missing something? 

Hey I admit some of the other features could use a 2017 upgrade. SD slot.. focus points (wider)
But then again would this not effect the 1DX and 5D sales?


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

traveller said:


> It's not a catastrophe, but it is a marketing blunder.



I'll bet you it isn't...


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

ronaldbyram said:


> Reading the initial reviews from folks and everyone screaming NO 4K NO 4K.



A very interesting perspective on the "necessity" of 4k in the Real World, from an actual working video pro (Policar's post):

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32228.msg672238#msg672238


----------



## traveller (Jun 30, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> ronaldbyram said:
> 
> 
> > Reading the initial reviews from folks and everyone screaming NO 4K NO 4K.
> ...



When were specifications in consumer products ever about necessity? Why do sports cars have top speeds so far in excess of most national speed limits when few of their purchasers ever take their car to a track day, or go anywhere near their cars' top speeds (except maybe for that initial, illicit "test run")? 

The fact is that it isn't 2012, most new cameras are now coming with some kind of 4K capability and more people now understand what the standard is because 4K televisions are becoming commonplace. How do you explain to a potential 6D Mark II buyer why their new $2000 camera can't produce video that matches the resolution of their $500 TV, like their smartphone can?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

traveller said:


> It's not a catastrophe, but it is a marketing blunder.



Please share the data from the extensive market research you've conducted, showing the critical importance of 4K to the target demographic for the 6DII. You _did_ conduct extensive market research before making such a claim, right? I'm sure that Canon did, before deciding not to include 4K. Maybe your extensive market research was just better. :


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 30, 2017)

traveller said:


> Keith_Reeder said:
> 
> 
> > ronaldbyram said:
> ...



I would also have liked to see 4K, but I have no problems with accepting that it isn't there.

If all Canon had to do was to stick in some different software to do it, I am sure that they would have. Some will say it was "nerfed" to protect 5D4 sales, but the reality is that 6D2 sales will be several times the volume of 5D4 sales. Financially, the 6D2 is a more important camera to Canon than the 5D4.... If Canon had put 4K into the 6D2, it would have shifted some of the sales of 5D4 down to the 6D2, but it would have shifted more people upwards from Rebels and the 70/80D, for a net gain in revenue.... and that does not even mention the people that may have migrated to Canon from other brands....

I think that the real reason that it was not done was because of overheating issues. Canon is a conservative company and is far more worried about reliability issues than having the latest and greatest.... They probably decided that not having a camera overheat and burn out the sensor was a good thing....


----------



## tron (Jun 30, 2017)

daphins said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...


I have 5DMkIV and DPRAW is close to useless. Don't believe me just search Bryan's article in TDP:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV.aspx

Quoting Bryan:

While I find the Dual Pixel Raw optimization feature very intriguing, I'm not ready to declare it a must-have feature.

Note that, with twice the information being captured with DPRAW enabled, file sizes increase by a factor of 2, the high speed burst buffer capacity is significantly reduced and the high speed burst rate is impacted. 


My opinion: I fully agree. The only possibly useful feature would be fixing minor AF errors. The only thing this technology (via the use of DPP software) achieves is selective sharpening of a specific area with a softening in other areas.

Also quoting from Bryan:

While I could see a modestly out of focus background in a 24mm f/2.8 image respond to the optimization, the overall degradation easily surpassed any benefits realized from this adjustment


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

tron said:


> Quoting Bryan:
> While I find the Dual Pixel Raw optimization feature very intriguing, I'm not ready to declare it a must-have feature.



If you've read some of Bryan's reviews, you know he's a _very_ (!!) positive guy. So, I interpret his statement as tantamount to a typical person stating, "DPRAW is useless."


----------



## Zv (Jun 30, 2017)

traveller said:


> Keith_Reeder said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, it's not 4k, Mike - a catastrophe, as we all know...
> ...



So let me get this straight; you _want_ Canon to put a garbage and unusable feature on a $2000 camera? ???

How would that be any better?


----------



## tron (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Quoting Bryan:
> ...


Yes and that's why I started with" I have 5DMkIV and DPRAW is close to useless." But Brian's opinion matters not mine so I also included the following Bryan's comment: 

"While I could see a modestly out of focus background in a 24mm f/2.8 image respond to the optimization, the overall degradation easily surpassed any benefits realized from this adjustment. "

Switching back to my opinion: All in all not a useful feature. I have permanently set it to off.


----------



## traveller (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a catastrophe, but it is a marketing blunder.
> ...



_“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” ― Henry Ford

"You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new." - Steve Jobs _

I'm sure that Canon did extensive market research into what they thought the average 6D buyer wanted. The problem is that they probably did it a few years ago, at the start of the development cycle and they also most likely did it by sending questionnaires to CPS members. Did anyone who bought a 6D receive a survey (genuine question!)? How do you find out the buying preferences of people who haven't bought/didn't buy a Canon camera? Just ask random people in the street? 

Like I stated in my first point, the lack of 4K isn't a catastrophe like some are making out, and I'm sure the 6D Mk II will sell well to the target audience, whoever Canon has decided that comprises. The issue is that maybe by targeting too tightly to protect your own company's perception of the market's segmentation, you can miss emerging trends and markets. If Canon already had a C300 type camera in 2008, would they have avoided putting an HD video capability in the 5D Mk II to protect C300 sales? Might they have then missed the latent demand for an affordable large sensor HD video platform from the low end of the market? 

It is easy to tell if the product is selling well against your own projections, but not so easy to tell if it could have been even more successful, as it's difficult to get decent information on the people that were considering to buy the product, but in the end chose not to (for whatever reason). How would Canon go about obtaining this information? They could survey 5D Mk IV buyers to try to ascertain whether they would have bought a 6D Mk II, had it featured 4K (i.e. a success from Canon's point of view). Whether they would get truthful answers to such a survey is another matter. How would they go about surveying people that had bought another brand instead? They wouldn't even know who these people were. What about Canon users that have skipped an upgrade generation? 

The point I'm trying to make is that just because Canon is a large company with the resources to carry out extensive market research, doesn't mean that they are going to always make the right decisions, otherwise we'd still all be drinking "New Coke".


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

traveller said:


> The point I'm trying to make is that just because Canon is a large company with the resources to carry out extensive market research, doesn't mean that they are going to always make the right decisions, otherwise we'd still all be drinking "New Coke".



Of course Canon can make mistakes. But...you definitely stated that Canon not including 4K in the 6DII *is* a mistake. Not 'could be'. Not 'may turn out to be'. *Is*. 

Did the Doctor take you in his TARDIS on a brief visit to 2019, where you saw pallets of 6DIIs sitting in Dollar General stores, because sales were so poor due to the lack of 4K? Are you clairvoyant? Or do you just like making blanket pronouncements with no facts to back them up, and ample contrary evidence (i.e. 14+ years of ILC market leadership to suggest that Canon generally makes the correct marketing decisions)? 

What was your point, again?


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > The point I'm trying to make is that just because Canon is a large company with the resources to carry out extensive market research, doesn't mean that they are going to always make the right decisions, otherwise we'd still all be drinking "New Coke".
> ...



John there is not point. I will refer you to your own advice in the DOF and magnification thread concerning a bowling ball and gravity.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

Just for fun, let's have a look back at a few of Canon's previous 'marketing blunders', according to CR wisdom:

*The 5Ds/R, because 20 MP is enough for anyone serious about photography...*


dak723 said:


> I am of the opinion that a mid 20s MP full frame is quite enough. My guess is that most pros will find this to be true as well. In my experience, at least, larger pixels create better overall IQ than smaller pixels, but I guess we'll find out if this remains to be true with these new cameras.
> 
> In my opinion, I think Canon is making a major marketing blunder. This camera should be the lowest priced FF as it will appeal to those who aren't pros. Those enthusiasts who are easily seduced by what seems like a big improvement probably won't pay $3 to $4 thousand for a camera. Pros that will pay that amount won't be seduced by the 50 MP unless their is some sort of breakthrough in other areas.




*The 5DIII, because everyone wants more MP and the D800 had it* (thread entitled: Canon's bad marketing - big mistake)


Hage said:


> I am absolutely convinced that the 5D 3 for the majority of people will be a far better and more versatile camera than the D800. Except for resolution (and maybe sharpness). But, just like a few years ago, that is exactly what people want at this moment. My guess is that Nikon will be selling truckloads and truckloads more of the D800 than Canon of the 5D 3.




*Canon making their own sensors like the one in the 5DIII, because the 'sensor IQ' (aka DxO scores) of the D800 were so much better:*


Fishnose said:


> I'm talking about Nikon working hard to trump their competitors by making smart moves, and Canon doing other things because they're too complacent and comfortable. If Canon decides to make their own sensors and loses market share because of it, that's known as a marketing mistake. Simple.
> 
> Case in point: Nikon D3200. Higher resolution than any Canon ever made and it's their CHEAPEST model in the new line. The image quality is apparently darn good. Yes, I now it's DX, but it's still remarkable - and a brilliant move.
> 
> ...


I particularly like the suggestion – from a post in 2012 – that if Canon continues making their own sensors, it's a marketing mistake that will contribue to a 'disastrous loss in market share'. And he knows exactly how it works, so Canon will lose...Internet wisdom at it's finest. 


*The 24-70/2.8L II, because it lacks IS:*


jm345 said:


> If Canon can put IS in the excellent 17-55f/2.8 (and 24-105f/4) there is no reason they can't or shouldn't put it in a new 24-70f/2.8. If they don't it will be a huge marketing mistake. I sold my 24-70 because it didn't have IS and I was not really happy with the IQ. I kept the 24-105 because of the IS but I find (with my copies at least) the 17-55 IS is sharper.




Well, I could go on, but I trust you get the point. Thanks for contributing your own wisdom concerning Canon's latest marketing blunder to the steaming pile of bovine excrement.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

bdunbar79 said:


> John there is not point. I will refer you to your own advice in the DOF and magnification thread concerning a bowling ball and gravity.



Fair enough. But, I enjoyed that little trip down memory lane. ;D


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 30, 2017)

WOW, it never ceases to amaze and entertain me; well, OTOH maybe the entertainment value for me is also diminishing.   :-\

Jack


----------



## rfdesigner (Jun 30, 2017)

Am I the only one on the forum that was hoping for 120fps?... I think a nice slow mo of your Son or Daughter scoring that winning penalty after extra time would be great to have.

4k.. meh!.. but 120fps.. there's so much I could have done with that.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 30, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Am I the only one on the forum that was hoping for 120fps?... I think a nice slow mo of your Son or Daughter scoring that winning penalty after extra time would be great to have.
> 
> 4k.. meh!.. but 120fps.. there's so much I could have done with that.


or 240 at reduced resolution!


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > John there is not point. I will refer you to your own advice in the DOF and magnification thread concerning a bowling ball and gravity.
> ...



I did too, thanks for the entertainment! 8)


----------



## bereninga (Jun 30, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Am I the only one on the forum that was hoping for 120fps?... I think a nice slow mo of your Son or Daughter scoring that winning penalty after extra time would be great to have.
> 
> 4k.. meh!.. but 120fps.. there's so much I could have done with that.



I'm w/ you. If there's no 4K, 120fps would've been darn sweet.

A couple of other changes from the 6D vs 6DII:


No ALL-I video compression in 6DII, but 6D has it. I honestly didn't even know this existed until yesterday, so I guess I personally don't care. Other video folks who do care though will prob be annoyed about this. Here's a thread on CR about ALL-I vs IPB: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=13707.0
LCD - 6DII brightness can't be controlled and there's no anti-reflective coating. 6D had both of those things.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 30, 2017)

MayaTlab said:


> No. I didn't make myself clear enough and you didn't watch the video. The mechanism holding the focusing screen on the 5DIII is the EXACT SAME as the one found on cameras such as the 5DII or the 6D (hinged metal frame, tabs, etc.). The screws are only holding the extra part in front of it.
> So in the 5DIII's case, yep, it would have been simpler to make the part directly removable. Making the 5DIII's focusing screen harder to change isn't a question of reducing costs or tightening tolerances. I don't know why there is an extra part in front of the mechanism. It's only speculation on my part, but maybe Canon found it easier to manage dust ingress or light leaks this way.



No, you were clear, but probably wrong. No, I didn't watch the video, because nothing is as frustrating as sitting at a computer, slack-jawed and passively watching a video. But I flipped through it a bit to give you the benefit of the doubt, and no, I'm not convinced. Yes, the 6D has the same screws holding in that front part. It _also_ has the release tab above the mirror assembly inside the lens mount that people noticed was missing from the 6D2. Yes? That part _is a moving part_. It has engineering requirements higher than a part identified as non-user parts, like those screws on all the bodies. No, it is not simpler to make the thing pull off with a tab than it is to "permanently" close it, and your points about light and dust are examples of why that's not the case. Those are examples of reasons why it's harder to engineer the removable focus screen. Now, we don't know for completely sure why the 6D got it and the 6D2 didn't, but it's probably the fancier OVF.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 30, 2017)

traveller said:


> because 4K televisions are becoming commonplace.



It has been proven time and again that at normal viewing distances, 4K is hardly noticable from HD. Even on compute screens, the amount of 4K material is pitifully low. So actually what you are doing is predicting a marketing trend and in technology that is a dangerous move.

Anyone remember what happened to hi-res music formats? SACD , Audio-DVD, 24-bit 192 digital? Blu-ray audio? Most people have not even heard of these. In fact they preferred the portability of MP3 and many cannot tell the difference in the normal listening so will not spend moolah on the hi-res stuff. 

4K is new. It is the new mega-pixel war. No-one really knows how the public perceive it because sales are driven by the manufacturers making products with a fancy spec sheet not what the public actually thinks they need.


----------



## tr573 (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> If you've read some of Bryan's reviews, you know he's a _very_ (!!) positive guy. So, I interpret his statement as tantamount to a typical person stating, "DPRAW is useless."



DPRAW is still the "sonyest" move canon has ever made IMO. Talk about a beta feature


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 30, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > because 4K televisions are becoming commonplace.
> ...



Eh... people made the same stupid claims about HD. Apple made the same stupid claim about resolution, until suddenly "Retina" mattered. Apple also made a similar stupid claim where 3.5" was the "perfect size", until 4" was the "perfect size", and now it's what, 4.7" or 5.5"? I can see 4k as clearly better than 1080p, but I hardly call it essential. It's going to be on my next TV by default, because it's going to be a good 65" screen and those are all 4k these days. Similarly though, my current TV has 3D, which I've never used. As did my last TV (where 3D was also never used). It seems 3D is now gone.

I believe 4k will be more successful though. For one, old (film) content can be restored and remastered into 4k, and any movies or TV shows shot in 4k+ can be released in 4k. The problem (a problem, besides the glasses) with 3D was that if it wasn't shot in 3D, there was no way to turn an old 2D film into 3D, so the content was much more limited than 4k will be. You can colorize _Casablanca_, you can release a 4k version of _Casablanca_, but you can't make a 3D _Casablanca_.

HDR is another feature that will be interesting to see if it's the next HD or the next 3D.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 30, 2017)

What 'claims' did I make? I merely questioned the value of 4k to the market based on experience in a similar technology market. 

Tablet screens are different because of the viewing distance, as are computer screens. traveller's comments were about TVs.
Also, how much of the retina screen is about 4k (or whatever) and how much is about the actual quality of the screen? The two have developed hand in hand and it is hard to tell which is the element that makes people go 'wow'

But your comment "It's going to be on my next TV by default, because it's going to be a good 65" screen and those are all 4k these days" just proves my point: you are buying 4k because all the models you will be interested in will probably be 4k. If there was a price differential then my guess is people will decide HD is enough - if prices are comparable of course they will go for 4k. 

So in the current market, I would venture that video is a minority technology for ILC cameras and 4k will not be the major differentiator for the average consumer because with so little TV content at 4k they have little reason to hunt out a 4k TV unless (as you say) 'they all have it'.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 30, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> What 'claims' did I make? I merely questioned the value of 4k to the market based on experience in a similar technology market.
> 
> Tablet screens are different because of the viewing distance, as are computer screens. traveller's comments were about TVs.
> Also, how much of the retina screen is about 4k (or whatever) and how much is about the actual quality of the screen? The two have developed hand in hand and it is hard to tell which is the element that makes people go 'wow'
> ...



You specifically brought up the "hardly makes a difference" claim. Just like the claim that high-DPI screens didn't matter for phones and tablets, until they suddenly did matter (when Apple offered them). Do you think Apple is suddenly going to go back to 320x480? Do you think TVs are going to go back to 1080p in large sizes? 3D did go away (completely now, I think). I really don't believe 4k will go away.

Heck, it wasn't that long ago people were claiming that 720p was plenty and even 1080p was a waste. At least no one keeps peddling that one.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> But your comment "It's going to be on my next TV by default, because it's going to be a good 65" screen and those are all 4k these days" just proves my point: you are buying 4k because all the models you will be interested in will probably be 4k. If there was a price differential then my guess is people will decide HD is enough - if prices are comparable of course they will go for 4k.



I'm looking at 55" TVs, the 1080p version is $100 less than the 4K version. Our family room layout is such that only by sitting on the front edge of the chaise would one be close enough to perceive a difference with 4K – IOW, no real benefit. So I have to decide if a 3rd HDMI input is worth $100 (my older, smaller 1080p TVs have four inputs, but that's a gripe for another day).


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > But your comment "It's going to be on my next TV by default, because it's going to be a good 65" screen and those are all 4k these days" just proves my point: you are buying 4k because all the models you will be interested in will probably be 4k. If there was a price differential then my guess is people will decide HD is enough - if prices are comparable of course they will go for 4k.
> ...



Now I'm curious - which 55"er are you looking at that has a 1080p option?


----------



## BillB (Jun 30, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > traveller said:
> ...



4K is rapidly becoming a no cost feature of TV's. I think there a real question as to whether 4K video will ever become a no cost, or even low cost, feature of Full Frame DSLR's, not to mention the processing chores associated with producing high quality 4K output. Is there a market? For sure, but how big is it, really?


----------



## traveller (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Of course Canon can make mistakes. But...you definitely stated that Canon not including 4K in the 6DII *is* a mistake. Not 'could be'. Not 'may turn out to be'. *Is*.


Really, did you just admit that it is possible for Canon to make a mistake?! Can I have that on record ;D 



neuroanatomist said:


> Did the Doctor take you in his TARDIS on a brief visit to 2019, where you saw pallets of 6DIIs sitting in Dollar General stores, because sales were so poor due to the lack of 4K? Are you clairvoyant? Or do you just like making blanket pronouncements with no facts to back them up, and ample contrary evidence (i.e. 14+ years of ILC market leadership to suggest that Canon generally makes the correct marketing decisions)?
> 
> What was your point, again?



I think the point here is that we are on the Canon Rumors forum. Once you accept that, you may also believe that it is reasonable for people to express their opinions without needing: 
[list type=decimal]
[*]to carry out a multi-million dollar market research exercise
[*]to have the benefit of hindsight
[/list]
Otherwise, this would be called the "American Marketing Association - Historical Review Forum". 

What is your point? It seems to always be the same: that we shouldn't express any opinion that is critical of Canon's decisons, as they are the experts and they know best. What are we meant to be discussing on this forum, how great is Canon and their latest product, how we have all pre-ordered and are eagerly awaiting shipment? 

Perhaps a more reasonable approach, might be for you to actually state your reasons why you hold a counter opinion, rather than constantly resorting to "you are not qualified to comment" or "you have no evidence because the events you predict have yet to occur". It might also be slightly more interesting to read. 

In response to your final comment ("i.e. 14+ years of ILC market leadership to suggest that Canon generally makes the correct marketing decisions"), the phrase "past performance is not indicative of future results" comes to mind. Remember when IBM owned computing, or Pan-Am ruled the skies? Market share alone is no guarantee of future dominance and history is littered with examples of companies that have misjudged the future direction of the market and fallen by the wayside. One day, Canon will almost certainly join that list. Because I own and enjoy Canon photographic equipment, I hope that day is far off, but sometimes I worry when I see the conservative decisions they make...


----------



## 9VIII (Jul 1, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > because 4K televisions are becoming commonplace.
> ...




It's been proven time and again that 1080p is no-where close to reaching the limits of human vision: http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/lum-hyperacuity/index.html

All the marketing around 1080p was total hogwash. It was effective because they were taking one aspect of human vision and acting like it's the absolute limitation for everything when in reality virtually nothing that you will ever look at falls under that limitation.

Everyone can see for themselves how much resolution you can actually use.
If you can see the stair-stepping effect of the pixels used in your display then you need more resolution: http://www.testufo.com/#test=aliasing-visibility&foreground=FFFFFF&background=000000&antialiasing=0&thickness=3
It's not hard to figure out how much more resolution you can use. Measure your current viewing distance and then measure how much farther back you need to be in order to make pixels blend together.
Then multiply the pixel density of your display by the same number of times that you had to multiply your viewing distance: https://www.sven.de/dpi/

4K isn't even close the being enough pixels to out perform your ability to see details (on an average screen from an average viewing distance).

People also don't commonly build multi-thousand dollar "home music" rooms, where the "home theater" is almost expected for anyone in the middle class or higher. The importance that people place on visual quality is an order of magnitude higher than the importance of audio quality.

4K has a market, and so will 8K. The Japanese are going to be broadcasting in 8K come 2020.
1080p is being phased out and everyone should be thankful for that because the idea of hundred million dollar moveis being recorded at the same resolution as 15 year old TV's is horrendous. What's worse is all the 3D stuff means "professional" movie theaters currently offer the worst visual quality you can possibly get. Right now Youtube actually provides better image quality than "Digital IMAX".
That has got to change.

(And action movies should be shot at 120fps, almost all of the effect of explosions is lost at 24fps.)


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 1, 2017)

Funny how one can enjoy something, like thoroughly enjoy something, and then at a later date describe it as garbage. Do we really need the biggest/best of everything to be happy. Seems research shows that those with the comfortable least are the happiest. I'm not immune but I try hard to not get constantly caught up in this syndrome. I'm convinced that the 6D2 will be a very nice upgrade for me. Yes, all you trolls, Canon has sucked this fool in and I will continue to be happy.  And I'm fine with you being happy with your XYZ.   

Jack


----------



## David_B (Jul 1, 2017)

traveller said:


> _“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” ― Henry Ford
> 
> "You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new." - Steve Jobs _
> 
> Like I stated in my first point, the lack of 4K isn't a catastrophe like some are making out, and I'm sure the 6D Mk II will sell well to the target audience, whoever Canon has decided that comprises. The issue is that maybe by targeting too tightly to protect your own company's perception of the market's segmentation, you can miss emerging trends and markets. If Canon already had a C300 type camera in 2008, would they have avoided putting an HD video capability in the 5D Mk II to protect C300 sales? Might they have then missed the latent demand for an affordable large sensor HD video platform from the low end of the market?



Before the 5D Mk II, Canon had no Cinema EOS. The 5D Mk II was the genesis of that product line. The quotes in relation to Henry Ford and Steve Jobs fit perfectly alongside the 5D Mk II and video capability. Problem is we all expect Canon to do that again. Maybe we consider that the 5D Mk II video features and success was a fluke by Canon and it didn't expect the video to be so popular. Maybe the video feature was thought of as nice to have and result of doing "Live Preview" on the back of the camera, not as first grade feature?

I don't see what problem is with no 4K. Most people who complain about it will never use it, just want it for spec masturbation. If you want to shoot 4K and want to use your EF lenses without buying Cinema EOS, wait for Sony A7III later this year. Same price (or cheaper) than 6D Mk II and it will do 4K. With all of the bits added to shooting video, body differences between 6D Mk II and A7III won't make much difference for ergonomics people.

If 4K is important to someone they won't buy 6D Mk II. Simple. Canon will know if it is important or not in 6 or 12 months when they know sales numbers for this camera and competitors'. Move on.


----------



## Zv (Jul 1, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Funny how one can enjoy something, like thoroughly enjoy something, and then at a later date describe it as garbage. Do we really need the biggest/best of everything to be happy. Seems research shows that those with the comfortable least are the happiest. I'm not immune but I try hard to not get constantly caught up in this syndrome. I'm convinced that the 6D2 will be a very nice upgrade for me. Yes, all you trolls, Canon has sucked this fool in and I will continue to be happy.  And I'm fine with you being happy with your XYZ.
> 
> Jack



I'm with ya there. Quite happy with what I have, my lowly 1080p TV and "ancient" 6D are doing just fine! When the time comes I'll be happy to upgrade to the MkII, even if that's a year or more from now. The cameras these days far surpass my own capabilities and I'd rather worry about my skills (or lack there of) than the specs sheets of cameras. Life is pretty good right now. I think we forget just how good it is!


----------



## tron (Jul 1, 2017)

Zv said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how one can enjoy something, like thoroughly enjoy something, and then at a later date describe it as garbage. Do we really need the biggest/best of everything to be happy. Seems research shows that those with the comfortable least are the happiest. I'm not immune but I try hard to not get constantly caught up in this syndrome. I'm convinced that the 6D2 will be a very nice upgrade for me. Yes, all you trolls, Canon has sucked this fool in and I will continue to be happy.  And I'm fine with you being happy with your XYZ.
> ...


You are correct both of you. It is funny how I have a latest camera like 5DMkIV but on the other hand I also have a 24 inch Sony trinitron TV from the early 90s (Not even a flat screen TV ;D ;D ;D )


----------



## pokerz (Jul 1, 2017)

Canon
2017 to 2022 is the era of 1080


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 1, 2017)

Tron, you have your priorities straight!  If you saw my wardrobe (or lack thereof) you'd know where my priorities lie and an old HD Tv that I only have, thanks to my deceased cousin. My wife is to blame pushing me into the recent photographic purchases, well kind of.  

Jack


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## Don Haines (Jul 1, 2017)

I live in a rural area.... no cable, no fiber, no high speed internet.... but I do have a 4K tv..... mostly because my tv is also the display for my computer.....

The only 4K content every played on it is from my GoPro.... DVDs (blue ray) are 2K, over the air signals are 2K at best, and any web content would take forever to download even at 2K....

4K is the future, but I am still in the past.....


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 1, 2017)

Aren't you thankful you can still be partially in the past? Sounds like a lovely situation where you are. I'm only on 3 acres but I love it since the reserve land still has lots of wildlife.

Jack


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## 9VIII (Jul 1, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Funny how one can enjoy something, like thoroughly enjoy something, and then at a later date describe it as garbage. Do we really need the biggest/best of everything to be happy. Seems research shows that those with the comfortable least are the happiest. I'm not immune but I try hard to not get constantly caught up in this syndrome. I'm convinced that the 6D2 will be a very nice upgrade for me. Yes, all you trolls, Canon has sucked this fool in and I will continue to be happy.  And I'm fine with you being happy with your XYZ.
> 
> Jack



If this comment was referring to screen resolution, I assure you that I have _never_ been happy with the resolution of any TV, and even 4K isn't good enough.
I've had the same standards from the start, that being a display with as much clarity than I can see, and nothing on the market meets that expectation, and won't for quite some time.
HDMI 2.1 supports up to 10K and (according to my own measurements) that should actually meet my expectations (as long as I can get it in normal screen sizes).
I'll probably have to settle on 8K for gaming though, but at least that's still really close to being ideal.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jul 1, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> You specifically brought up the "hardly makes a difference" claim.



It's not a "claim" - it's a demonstrable, trivially easily observed fact.


----------



## foo (Jul 1, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> The problem (a problem, besides the glasses) with 3D was that if it wasn't shot in 3D, there was no way to turn an old 2D film into 3D, so the content was much more limited than 4k will be. You can colorize _Casablanca_, you can release a 4k version of _Casablanca_, but you can't make a 3D _Casablanca_.



You should google 'stereo conversion'. 

While it's certainly the case that filming with 3D in mind may help a lot, it's far from impossible to convert 2D into 3D. Some fairly significant percentage of 3D films being made today are shot in 2D and converted.

I suspect it's not a question of whether they could convert Casablanca to 3D or not, more whether it would be comercially viable or not.

See http://www.primefocusworld.com/3d-conversion


----------



## 9VIII (Jul 1, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > You specifically brought up the "hardly makes a difference" claim.
> ...




It's fact that the "one ark minute" limitation of "visual acuity" has never applied to anything but line pairs, it's a practially useless test to use on people and the results were always practically meaningless.



9VIII said:


> It's been proven time and again that 1080p is no-where close to reaching the limits of human vision: http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/lum-hyperacuity/index.html
> 
> All the marketing around 1080p was total hogwash. It was effective because they were taking one aspect of human vision and acting like it's the absolute limitation for everything when in reality virtually nothing that you will ever look at falls under that limitation.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jul 1, 2017)

@Don - actually I have to say that I was not really focusing on TV or monitors and I plan to fork out for a much higher level 32" monitor since I don't want that link to be weak in the process of working on my photos. I don't watch many movies etc. and really don't care much about my TV except for nature videos etc.

I tend towards perfectionism and have to fight it in order to not waste too much time on projects that really don't deserve the treatment so of course I can get wound up in the gear criticism department too. I simply have to remind myself regularly that it's not a significant source of happiness and often counterproductive, *and* to keep things in perspective, I'm just an enthusiast.

Jack


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## darynthe (Jul 3, 2017)

Personally--- I am not buying into this upgrade. Will hold on to my 6D for another 4 years until the next generation or if there is an update on 5Dr. I am supposed to be the perfect market to this camera though. I am an enthusiast who doesn't do much video who wanted better AF. I do a lot of macro and studio. But I don't see a good resale value on this new camera and I feel it is overpriced if we go by the competitor brands. 
If the metabones is fast enough in the upcoming A3iii I may consider making and effort and buying that one to use with my glass. I was needing 120-240 fps slow motion capabilities, for a personal project. I will just rent the 5d IV I guess. Not rich here folks, gotta be careful with this kind of expenses. I respect everybody else's opinion if you guys like and will buy I think it not unreasonable either. Those leaving because of the disappointment, sorry but I think they are just as reasonable. This offering is too average so any decision is not unreasonable.


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## SevenDUser (Jul 3, 2017)

Does 6D mkII support HDR in RAW format? The old 6D only supports JPG?


----------



## Khalai (Jul 3, 2017)

SevenDUser said:


> Does 6D mkII support HDR in RAW format? The old 6D only supports JPG?



Bad news for you.

6D Mark II manual, p. 256, clearly states that HDR is saved as JPEG file and you cannot select either RAW or RAW+JPEG quality settings - in those settings, HDR mode is not available.


----------



## SevenDUser (Jul 3, 2017)

Khalai said:


> SevenDUser said:
> 
> 
> > Does 6D mkII support HDR in RAW format? The old 6D only supports JPG?
> ...



Not getting it then... Thanks!


----------



## Khalai (Jul 3, 2017)

SevenDUser said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > SevenDUser said:
> ...



You can still bracket RAW files and make HDR file in the post as usual.


----------



## Mikehit (Jul 3, 2017)

SevenDUser said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > SevenDUser said:
> ...



Is there a camera that does HDR in raw format? I f it is HDR then it is not a raw file


----------



## Don Haines (Jul 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> SevenDUser said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...


Every DSLR out there does HDR in RAW format... It is called automatic exposure bracketing!


----------



## NorbR (Jul 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Is there a camera that does HDR in raw format? If it is HDR then it is not a raw file


No, but there are cameras that let you keep your bracketed exposures, including in RAW format, and give you the in-camera HDR image on top of that. The original 6D doesn't do that. You need to switch to JPG altogether, and you don't even get to keep the bracketed exposures. Just the one JPG. Apparently the Mark II works the same way.


----------



## Mikehit (Jul 3, 2017)

NorbR said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a camera that does HDR in raw format? If it is HDR then it is not a raw file
> ...



Gotcha. Thanks for explaining it. 
Surely for a complex processing like HDR it is always best on a computer anyway? So as Don says, auto bracket and process in post.


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## Khalai (Jul 3, 2017)

NorbR said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a camera that does HDR in raw format? If it is HDR then it is not a raw file
> ...



What's the problem? In camera HDR is still flaky at best. It's always best to use AEB anyway. No big deal...


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## NorbR (Jul 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



Agreed. I never use it myself for that very reason. 
But at least with the more elaborate version, you don't lose anything. You get the in-camera HDR; if you like it, good, and if you don't, you have your RAW files to post process to your liking.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Is there a camera that does HDR in raw format? I f it is HDR then it is not a raw file



My 1D X doesn't even do in-camera HDR with JPG. I think Canon nerfed it to protect sales of the 6D.


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 4, 2017)

Now the manual is out, there are not too many questions that aren't answered other than its real life performance. It sure has a lot of automatic features (scenes) for the person who doesn't wish to understand what's behind it all. Button programmability is minimal and it looks like the buttons that can do AF do not allow any AF options, i.e. I would have liked to have the shutter and AF-ON cause different AF cases, but not a big deal.

Funny how we hear camera X is too big/too small. My adult daughter was shooting with me and I asked how big her hand was and passed the 1DX2 - she couldn't possibly use it with shutter and BB focus. The 6D2 might even seem big. Just a reminder that what's great for one may not be for another.

Jack


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## Sharlin (Jul 4, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Button programmability is minimal and it looks like the buttons that can do AF do not allow any AF options, i.e. I would have liked to have the shutter and AF-ON cause different AF cases, but not a big deal.



The custom controls settings seem identical to those in the 80D, which is not a surprise. Also like the 80D, there are no predefined AF cases but the AF parameters can be tuned via Custom Functions.


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 4, 2017)

Every "new camera" thread puts me back to 1971. "They're only putting in a nickel but they want a dollar song" She could have been a psychologist.

Every one of these threads should start with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAGeVtLOsYo

Well you know that I'm not a gambler / But I'm being gambled on / They put in a nickel and I sing a little song / Da-da-da-da

Jack


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## Alejandro (Jul 4, 2017)

Digic 7 is more than enough to handle 4K. We'll just have to wait a year for a ML release. (Or maybe a firmware release).


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## BeenThere (Jul 4, 2017)

HDR video is an interesting feature. Combines a normal frame width one 2 stops underexposed for an HDR composit (processed in camera). 80D may have it too?


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## Khalai (Jul 4, 2017)

Alejandro said:


> Digic 7 is more than enough to handle 4K. We'll just have to wait a year for a ML release. (Or maybe a firmware release).



I would not put my hopes on that. They may very well be insufficient cooling, which could lead to sensor overheating. It's much easier to cool smaller sensor area than fullframe. I agree, that many people would like to see 4K in this camera (as even affordable Fuji X-T20 has it), but it's not without some compromises. Canon probably decided that additional cooling and circuitry needed for 4K is not efficient for this kind of camera. Or they are simply protecting 5D IV, who knows...


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## Sharlin (Jul 4, 2017)

Alejandro said:


> Digic 7 is more than enough to handle 4K. We'll just have to wait a year for a ML release.



A year? I seriously doubt it. The DIGIC 6 architecture seems to differ substantially from its predecessors and there are no ML builds for any DIGIC 6 cameras, not even work-in-progress ones. Never mind DIGIC7... All the bodies for which ML is available are at least four years old.


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## Don Haines (Jul 4, 2017)

Alejandro said:


> Digic 7 is more than enough to handle 4K. We'll just have to wait a year for a ML release. (Or maybe a firmware release).



So let's say that all that is needed to run 4K on this camera is software...... Don't you think that Canon would have done this already? Sure, there might be a small hit of 5D4 sales as a few people decide to get the 6D2 instead of the 5D4, but what about all the customers attracted from Nikon or Sony? This would be a net gain for Canon and they are smart enough to know it....

Overheating seems like the most likely reason to exclude it....


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## dak723 (Jul 4, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Alejandro said:
> 
> 
> > Digic 7 is more than enough to handle 4K. We'll just have to wait a year for a ML release. (Or maybe a firmware release).
> ...



Why bother trying to explain. The 4K crowd doesn't care about facts or about the technical challenges of implementing 4K. They just want to whine like little babies.


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## tron (Jul 4, 2017)

dak723 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Alejandro said:
> ...


One thing is for sure: ML will certainly not help with 4K raw video due to max card write speeds.


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## Khalai (Jul 4, 2017)

tron said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Would theoretically HDMI output to external recorder be able to acquire 4K? All other things aside of course...


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## tron (Jul 4, 2017)

Khalai said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...


You will have to ask them! But have they achieved something similar in 5D3? I think not...


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## Sharlin (Jul 4, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Would theoretically HDMI output to external recorder be able to acquire 4K? All other things aside of course...



I don't think the HDMI output (probably version 1.2) supports 4K resolution... And the camera's internal bus most likely doesn't have enough throughput either.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 4, 2017)

dak723 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Alejandro said:
> ...



But...MY iPHONE SHOOTS 4K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....


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## hangtime (Jul 6, 2017)

So I found this chart which compares Canon's full-frame cameras: 

https://prophotoblog.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Canon-EOS-Full-Frame-Comparison-Chart.pdf

It looks official enough, although the link to the same PDF on the Canon site doesn't work for some reason so I can't be sure.

Anyway, the fourth row of the specs chart is "Low pass filter cancellation effect" and for the 5DS/5DS-R it says "Yes (for 5DS R only)" as expected. But under the 6D II it says "Yes" as well. I found this unexpected - has anyone else commented on this? I haven't read all the discussions, or the manual, so perhaps I'm just out of the loop. If this is indeed correct it might change the math a bit on the value of upgrading to the 6DII, particularly for landscape shooters.


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## Khalai (Jul 6, 2017)

hangtime said:


> So I found this chart which compares Canon's full-frame cameras:
> 
> https://prophotoblog.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Canon-EOS-Full-Frame-Comparison-Chart.pdf
> 
> ...



Interesting catch. If 6D II is indeed with either very weak AA or completely AA-less, that would be very beneficial for many people. Then again not very beneficial for videofolk, but since 4K party is already shopping for torches and pitchforks...

What is rather weird is that Canon did not emphasize any AA-less features in any of the marketing materials. One would think they will try to exploit such feature to appeal a certain niche of potential customers.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 6, 2017)

hangtime said:


> So I found this chart which compares Canon's full-frame cameras:
> 
> https://prophotoblog.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Canon-EOS-Full-Frame-Comparison-Chart.pdf
> 
> ...



Interesting. However, Canon's tech-mouthpiece, Rudy Winston, states that the 6DII has an AA filter.

[quote author=Rudy Winston / Canon DLC]
Diffraction Correction is built-in (can be turned on or off, on camera’s menu). Added sharpening applied to counter both the effects of lens softening at small apertures which are common in landscape shooting (f/16, f/22, etc.), as well as providing specific sharpening to counter the softening effect of *the low-pass filter immediately in front of the EOS 6D Mark II’s image sensor* (when shooting at wider apertures).
[/quote]

That's backed up by the 6DII manual in a couple of places.


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## ahsanford (Jul 6, 2017)

hangtime said:


> So I found this chart which compares Canon's full-frame cameras:
> 
> https://prophotoblog.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Canon-EOS-Full-Frame-Comparison-Chart.pdf
> 
> ...



The LP filter is physically still there according to the manual, but a cancellation effect (or even the word cancellation) is nowhere to be found in the manual.

- A


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## BillB (Jul 6, 2017)

Khalai said:


> hangtime said:
> 
> 
> > So I found this chart which compares Canon's full-frame cameras:
> ...



Maybe the 6DII applies sharpening algorithms in camera to compensate for diffraction and the AA filter. If so, this would be in camera post processing rather than something to improve the image at capture, like the cancellation layer that the 5Dsr has. In camera post processing would seem to be relevant to out of the camera jpg files, and possibly video, but most likely would not affect Raw files. If so, it doesn't strike me as all that big a deal, which would be consistent with Canon's low key treatment of this feature.


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## Khalai (Jul 6, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> hangtime said:
> 
> 
> > So I found this chart which compares Canon's full-frame cameras:
> ...



That's backed up by the 6DII manual in a couple of places.
[/quote]

But I guess none of this corrections will apply, when shooting RAW, right?


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## ahsanford (Jul 6, 2017)

hangtime said:


> So I found this chart which compares Canon's full-frame cameras:
> 
> https://prophotoblog.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Canon-EOS-Full-Frame-Comparison-Chart.pdf



Spotted what you were referring to (attached). As it's not anywhere in a 610 page manual, I'm guessing that chart has a typo, but I could be wrong.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 6, 2017)

Khalai said:


> But I guess none of this corrections will apply, when shooting RAW, right?



Right.


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## Jack Douglas (Jul 7, 2017)

Would it be DPP, Lens Specific Correction that is operative relative to this sharpening?

Jack


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## stevelee (Jul 16, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Why bother trying to explain. The 4K crowd doesn't care about facts or about the technical challenges of implementing 4K. They just want to whine like little babies.
> ...



This thread made me a bit curious, so I compared some video I shot last year vs. some this year. About the only video I shoot each year are of basketball pick-up games that include some pros from Europe, current college players, some entering freshmen, and occasional guests, sometime prospects. I edit them into highlights and post privately on YouTube for other fans in different parts of the country who can't check out the new freshmen players in person.

Last year I wound up shooting it all in 4K on my iPhone. Since it doesn't have optical zoom, I use the extra resolution to allow me to crop the picture down without too much upsampling. This year I shot the video with my G7X II at 1080p. I was able to zoom in with the lens, so I didn't need to do much cropping during editing. I had Compressor to output 720p, and sent the results off to YouTube. 

So I just looked at a sample of the results of both years on YouTube, and could not see any difference from the resolution. The camera did a poorer job of exposure and white balance, so if I use it again for that, I'll try running some tests and do settings manually, or at least learn what I'm doing. That was the first video I've shot with that camera, so operator error may be the main factor. But resolution wasn't, I don't think.

My point is that the use for me in having 4K footage would be to give flexibility in editing. I have no reason to output 4K for any of my purposes. But sure, having perfectly exposed and color-balanced 4K at 120fps would give me great looking slow motion replays, as well as causing Final Cut Pro to eat up my whole terabyte internal SSD with work files. But do I really need 4K for anything? I don't think I'll miss it on the 6D2. Next year I might try it out on the basketball videos, or I may just go back to the iPhone for convenience.

I'll probably now go look at the videos as they looked before I sent them to YouTube, and might check out some old ones I shot with the T3i. Then I'll try them full-screen on my 5K monitor.


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## malarcky (Aug 11, 2017)

I will go out on a limb here and suggest that the absence of a lot of video features in the 6D Mk II may add to it's excellent noise floor. I have noticed that the noise pattern on this camera is absolutely better than any of the other cameras I have owned/tested. The captures at ISO's up to and including 12800 have a remarkably lower noise floor than I have ever seen. I have never seen a 5DSr up close, so I cannot comment on that particular camera. I could be out in left field here, as I am not a camera imaging engineer, but it makes sense to me that the more the camera has to be able to counteract moire, the more filter strength would be needed to be effective. 

The 6D impressed me a lot, but this camera clearly surpasses that model. I was shocked to see some of the first images while just taking some test shots had such a high ISO and looked very clean to my eyes. This was sort of a big deal when the 5D Mk IV came out, as I remember a video by Jared Polin (aka Fro Knows Photo) describing the 12800 pictures being "usable". I think the 6D Mk II has that capability as well, and maybe better.


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## Talys (Aug 18, 2017)

I did a some Remote Shooting today, and found these speeds for transfer from 6DII to Microsoft Surface Pro 4 at the following speeds:

- RAW files between 32MB-35MB - median was 12 seconds. Range was 10-14 seconds.
- JPEG files between 4MB - 6MB - median was slightly over 3 seconds. Range was 2.5 - 4 seconds.

This was with Live View OFF. It's wildly unpredictable with Live View (on PC) on, because the range goes from 14s to 26s... because... I guess, reasons. It didn't actually make much sense, because I could take 2 shots in a row (same subject, nothing moved), and the first might be 18s, and the second 25s.

Setup (pairing) was actually painless. I also successfully repaired the camera to a couple of different notebooks. I note this because in the past, this was always a sore spot for me, as there isn't very good messaging if it doesn't pair, and it's just damn frustrating.

After installing the whole Canon software solution (which is something I usually don't do), you still can't get thumbnails of 6DII RAW's in Windows File Explorer, or in either of the built-in photo viewers.

Does anyone know of a very small footprint photo viewer that can open CR2s? Hopefully, Fall Creator's Update will include a 6DII codec for this.


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## Talys (Aug 19, 2017)

Another find today that made me happy. On the 80D, you can only have the camera wirelessly paired to 1 wireless PC at a time (for remote shooting). It's not really a problem, but it's annoying if you have more than one notebook.

On the 6DII, it remembers your previous pairings (I don't know how many), and you can select the device you want to reconnect, or create a new one.

That feature is very helpful to me.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 19, 2017)

Talys said:


> Another find today that made me happy. On the 80D, you can only have the camera wirelessly paired to 1 wireless PC at a time (for remote shooting). It's not really a problem, but it's annoying if you have more than one notebook.
> 
> On the 6DII, it remembers your previous pairings (I don't know how many), and you can select the device you want to reconnect, or create a new one.
> 
> That feature is very helpful to me.



Thanks, keep us informed. My plan is to purchase the 6D2 early spring since I really don't need it now.

Jack


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## LesC (Aug 20, 2017)

Amazon UK currently have the 6D MKII for £1680 - saving of £319 on most other outlets. I was going to wait until prices dropped & P/ex my 6D but tempted now....


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 20, 2017)

LesC said:


> Amazon UK currently have the 6D MKII for £1680 - saving of £319 on most other outlets. I was going to wait until prices dropped & P/ex my 6D but tempted now....



I'd be tempted too - I guess it depends on how "badly" you "need" it.

Jack


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