# Canon EOS M2 Specs Revealed?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 2, 2013)

```
<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href=""></g:plusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="">Tweet</a></div>
<p><strong>Canon EOS M2

</strong>Below are the rumored specs of the Canon EOS M2 that will be announced for CES 2014 in Las Vegas.</p>
<p>There is no mention of new lenses for the system.</p>
<p><strong>Specifications</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>APS-C 18MP sensor</li>
<li>Hybrid CMOS AF II</li>
<li>AF Speed 2.3 times faster</li>
<li>AF Servo in Video Mode</li>
<li>Image processing engine DIGIC 5</li>
<li>4.6fps burst rate</li>
<li>ISO range 100-12800 (25600 extended)</li>
<li>About a 10% smaller than the Canon EOS M</li>
<li>Wifi in camera</li>
<li>Can operate the camera with a smartphone.</li>
<li>Wireless image transfer to the smartphone</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://digicame-info.com/2013/12/eos-m2-1.html" target="_blank">DCI</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


----------



## Eldar (Dec 2, 2013)

That was not too far off what we could expect I suppose ... I have tried to like these smaller cameras, but I always end up dragging the bigger DSLR along instead. The RX-1 almost tempted me though. But to be limited to one focal length is not very appealing.


----------



## Lichtgestalt (Dec 2, 2013)

a 18 MP sensor is unlikely i think.

why should canon produce a new 18 MP sensor with dual pixel AF when they have already such a 20 MP sensor? makes not much sense.

and when that is wrong... then i guess the whole rumor is not much but hot air...

edit:

or wait.. i got this wrong i guess. ???

they say they will put the same old 650D sensor in it?
not dual pixel... but hybrid cmos?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> a 18 MP sensor is unlikely i think.
> 
> why should canon produce a new 18 MP sensor with dual pixel AF when they have already such a 20 MP sensor? makes not much sense.



Where did you get that this has dual pixel AF? 



Canon Rumors said:


> • APS-C 18MP sensor
> • Hybrid CMOS AF II



Hybrid CMOS II ≠ DPAF. The sensor described above is the one in the 700D/T5i and 100D/SL1 (which is different than the T4i/650D and EOS M sensor - those have the original Hybrid CMOS which is basically only the center of the frame, whereas Hybrid CMOS II covers a much larger area of the frame).

Some time back, the rumor was for two new models in the M lineup - a 'low end' one that is a little smaller than the current M and targeted at 'consumers', and a 'high end' one incorporating DPAF and coming a bit later.

This rumor sounds like the former, particularly with the smartphone integration stuff.


----------



## preppyak (Dec 2, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> There is no mention of new lenses for the system.


To me, this is the more important thing. The US system has 2 lenses right now; and if I'm gonna put an adapter on the thing, I might as well just buy an SL1 or T51 and get similar specs/pricing.

Honestly, it'd probably be smarter of them to just drop mirrorless until they are ready to commit fully. A new EOS-M that doesn't come with a tele, some more primes, etc...don't see the point


----------



## xvnm (Dec 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> why should canon produce a new 18 MP sensor with dual pixel AF when they have already such a 20 MP sensor? makes not much sense.
> 
> and when that is wrong... then i guess the whole rumor is not much but hot air...
> 
> ...



Not the 650D/700d sensor, but the 100D (SL1) one.


----------



## xvnm (Dec 2, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Hybrid CMOS II ≠ DPAF. The sensor described above is the one in the 700D/T5i and 100D/SL1 (which is different than the T4i/650D and EOS M sensor - those have the original Hybrid CMOS which is basically only the center of the frame, whereas Hybrid CMOS II covers a much larger area of the frame).



The 700D doesn't have Hybrid CMOS AF II, it uses the exact same sensor as the 650D. Other than cosmetic differences and the kit lens, the cameras are identical.


----------



## RobertP (Dec 2, 2013)

I wanted the 70D sensor. I guess I'll have to wait for the M3.


----------



## Lichtgestalt (Dec 2, 2013)

yeah i first misread the sensor information.
i always thought they will use the latest (best) APS-C sensor for the M2. :

why only 4.6 FPS?

other mirrorless cameras have much faster burst rates.
in fact the burst rates are one thing that i really like about mirroless cameras.


----------



## bholliman (Dec 2, 2013)

Yawn. The addition of WiFi is the only thing of significance here. Nothing interesting for me.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 2, 2013)

xvnm said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Hybrid CMOS II ≠ DPAF. The sensor described above is the one in the 700D/T5i and 100D/SL1 (which is different than the T4i/650D and EOS M sensor - those have the original Hybrid CMOS which is basically only the center of the frame, whereas Hybrid CMOS II covers a much larger area of the frame).
> ...



You're right - thanks for the correction!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 2, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> • AF Speed 2.3 times faster



2.3 times faster…but, faster than what? The EOS M at launch, or the EOS M with the v2 firmware? IIRC, Canon mentioned that the v2 firmware for the M would deliver AF speeds that were 2.3x faster. This spec for an M2 sounds a little too coincidental to me...


----------



## Don Haines (Dec 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> why only 4.6 FPS?
> 
> other mirrorless cameras have much faster burst rates.
> in fact the burst rates are one thing that i really like about mirroless cameras.



I have a p/s with a burst mode of 11.5 fps, but if you reduce the image size it will let you get away with 60fps. I have heard of other p/s that do bursts of 120fps..... 4.6 is slow.....


----------



## Proffarm (Dec 2, 2013)

I REALLY hope this is a bad rumor...

I mean, I absolutely LOVE my M-because it's so much fun and it got me back into photography-but I was definitely anticipating an M2 that would push Canon into the OM-D E-M1/5, GX7 or EP-5 level of enthusiast mirrorless camera WITH a 70D sensor inside.. That would have been an instant buy for me. 

This is...not worth upgrading for.. 

COME ON CANON!!!!!!!


----------



## jrista (Dec 2, 2013)

Hmm...I think it would be a real mistake for Canon to make use of their 18mp sensor...AGAIN. That thing is becoming the laughing stock of the digital photography world...it's tainted, and would be a real negative for Canon to slap the "same old sensor" into "another camera"...again. 

The other specs seem piss-poor for a mirrorless camera, even an entry-level one. If nothing more than for their own reputation, I hope Canon releases something better than what this rumor indicates...


----------



## Maximilian (Dec 2, 2013)

preppyak said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > There is no mention of new lenses for the system.
> ...


This is 100% my opinion. 
A new system without new system components is not interesting. 

Right now I am much more tempted to buy a SL1/100D if i want a "compact" system.
Because if I have to use EF/EF-S lenses because of the EF-M missing, then this is the better choice.


----------



## wayno (Dec 2, 2013)

First thought: meh.


----------



## bholliman (Dec 2, 2013)

jrista said:


> Hmm...I think it would be a real mistake for Canon to make use of their 18mp sensor...AGAIN. That thing is becoming the laughing stock of the digital photography world...it's tainted, and would be a real negative for Canon to slap the "same old sensor" into "another camera"...again.
> 
> The other specs seem piss-poor for a mirrorless camera, even an entry-level one. If nothing more than for their own reputation, I hope Canon releases something better than what this rumor indicates...



+1


----------



## cnardo (Dec 2, 2013)

What about the viewfinder? :-\


----------



## RGF (Dec 2, 2013)

cnardo said:


> What about the viewfinder? :-\



Looking for small body for my long glass -either the M or perhaps the SL1


----------



## traveller (Dec 2, 2013)

There are rumours out there that Nikon is intending to do something different to their "1" series in a P7800 style body; Canon might be advised to do the same. At least they've gone for an APS-C sensor. 

The real weakness of the EOS-M system is the lack of lenses. You could probably make do with EF(-S) mount telephotos on the adaptor if the AF system was up to it, as the size difference wouldn't be that great, but the whole point of removing the mirror is to make wide angle lenses more compact. 

I can't see Canon bothering to launch any primes with this sort of M2, as it's too consumer orientated and Canon don't think consumers buy primes -witness the total lack of any non-macro primes for the EF-S line (I think the EF-M 22mm f/2 was a sop to the enthusiast press to try and generate some good reviews).


----------



## Proffarm (Dec 2, 2013)

The more I'm sitting here, in my office and stewing about this the more micro 4/3rds is looking REALLY attractive to me.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 2, 2013)

I think it's got to be a fake rumor.

Either that or Canon may as well just fire the entire engineering department and hire a few more marketers and managers. They sure as heck will need that if they expect to push and make a success of their mirrorless efforts and marketing thinks they need to protect the 70D and such from the M2 and they saddle it with an old Rebel sensor, come on! No PDAF, etc.?? THAT is how they'd try to finally make the M line sell? And that on top of a last second delay that puts it past the holidays?? If true they obviously have decided they don't need engineers and they sure as heck will need some marketers to pull this off.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 2, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > why only 4.6 FPS?
> ...



Yeah hopefully it is a rumor fed by some competitor trying to turn people off of the M series, because if it is for real, wow, then Canon has become even a new level of conservative and out of touch.


----------



## Proffarm (Dec 2, 2013)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> I think it's got to be a fake rumor.
> 
> Either that or Canon may as well just fire the entire engineering department and hire a few more marketers and managers. They sure as heck will need that if they expect to push and make a success of their mirrorless efforts and marketing thinks they need to protect the 70D and such from the M2 and they saddle it with an old Rebel sensor, come on! No PDAF, etc.?? THAT is how they'd try to finally make the M line sell? And that on top of a last second delay that puts it past the holidays?? If true they obviously have decided they don't need engineers and they sure as heck will need some marketers to pull this off.




I spent the holiday weekend reading about the Panasonic GX-7 and thinking, 'Oh wow, I can't WAIT until Canon shows us the M2..' I assumed that they were going to really make a concerted effort this time around and show everyone else how it's done... 

Guess not, if this rumor is even slightly true.

Don't get me wrong, like I said earlier, I love my little M and it is so much fun. But having played around with it for about 5 months I now know what I really want.. And I want...more.


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> yeah i first misread the sensor information.
> i always thought they will use the latest (best) APS-C sensor for the M2. :
> 
> why only 4.6 FPS?
> ...



With mirrorless, you don't really need more than 2-3fps since you can't track moving subject anyway.


----------



## jrista (Dec 2, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > yeah i first misread the sensor information.
> ...



DPAF can track moving subjects, and well enough for 30fps video!


----------



## infared (Dec 2, 2013)

Sorry ...but I just have to laugh. No mention of a VF for the new M?
Look...I have an extensive MFT kit to complement my Canon FF Kit... I have been researching picking up an Olympus E-PL5 as a second MFT body.
1. VERY small.
2. Can be fitted with the BEST EVF out there...Olympus VF4
3. 8 frames per second
4. Incredibly extensive small, fast, prime lens selection...(all lenses actually including zooms)
That is just a few of the bests on the M-system..and the E-PL5 is one year old...and I bet that it focuses faster than the new M??????

I am looking at all of the other manufacturers...what the hell is Canon doing in the area of innovation??????????
I think that is a really valid question at this point.


----------



## Dylan777 (Dec 2, 2013)

jrista said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Lichtgestalt said:
> ...



What is "DPAF"?


----------



## Famateur (Dec 2, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



*D*ual *P*ixel *A*uto *F*ocus, introduced in the 70D.


----------



## Lichtgestalt (Dec 2, 2013)

infared said:


> Sorry ...but I just have to laugh. No mention of a VF for the new M?
> Look...I have an extensive MFT kit to complement my Canon FF Kit... I have been researching picking up an Olympus E-PL5 as a second MFT body.
> 1. VERY small.
> 2. Can be fitted with the BEST EVF out there...Olympus VF4
> ...



you do realize it´s just a rumor yet?
like my latest rumor.... canon is only making popcorn from 2015 onwards.

why not getting your heartattack when the specs are really out? ;D


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 2, 2013)

If this rumor is true, I am afraid that it makes sense to question I raised at the topic below: ???

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=18358.0


----------



## Famateur (Dec 2, 2013)

If this rumor is true, I think it's evidence of Canon beginning to make mirrorless the new point-and-shoot market. 

As camera phones devour the point-and-shoot market, Canon needs a new consumer-level bread-and-butter line that's good enough to be a clear advantage over camera phones but low enough in feature set to avoid cannibalizing the DSLR market. It wouldn't surprise me if Canon introduced several slightly different flavors of the the consumer-level M. For the consumer market, I doubt any of them have any clue which generation of sensor is in the camera, and they probably don't care. If it's cheap enough and has nifty enough features and is easy to use, the consumer market will be happy.

How such a strategy might fare against competing mirrorless offerings will definitely be interesting. As long as Canon does produce a high-end mirrorless body with all the whistles and bells -- and at a price congruent with DSLRs and/or competing high-end mirrorless solutions -- then it could be a good strategy. If Canon can(will) beat the competition at the high end, it will be free to play around with shaping a new (mirrorless) consumer market as its managers please.

Just remember that the features (or lack thereof) of the EOS M that cause us to grind our teeth are part-and-parcel for the consumer market. What it will all come down to is price against the competition and its feature set. Isn't that what competition is all about?

Obviously, neither the current M nor the M of this rumor represent a serious attempt by Canon to show the world how the ultimate mirrorless body should be done. If/when Canon decides to make such a statement, I'm confident it will be nothing less than spectacular. Meanwhile, we can all speculate on what will motivate Canon to do it...oh, and take some pictures between forum posts.


----------



## Harv (Dec 2, 2013)

I think I'll just sew larger pockets into all my clothing that will accommodate my 1D4 + 24-70 and stick with that. :


----------



## noncho (Dec 2, 2013)

I have M, for M2 I would like:
Faster and better tracking AF, bigger grip, more FPS... New sensor will not make miracles for me.
BUT - I need more great little primes for this system!


----------



## lw (Dec 2, 2013)

For those disappointed by this announcement it doesn't preclude canon announcing a 2nd M model at the same time or shortly after. 
Many of the M rumours have suggested that Canon would be announcing two M models.

This is a leaked spec for the M2. A M-something else could / should still be on the cards for announcement now or at CES in January


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 2, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Some time back, the rumor was for two new models in the M lineup - a 'low end' one that is a little smaller than the current M and targeted at 'consumers', and a 'high end' one incorporating DPAF and coming a bit later.
> 
> This rumor sounds like the former, particularly with the smartphone integration stuff.



that was my first thought as well. However, the rumor is so strange ... e.g. as you already pointed out ... the ominous "2.3x AF-speed" ... otoh many of the other specs sound very credible. Wifi added, which enables apps for image transfer to and remote control by smartphones, slightly improved fps and AF, even smaller size ... done!
Canon would then reserve the 70D DPAF-sensor (plus EVF) for a later, higher-end EOS-M "3"- as rumored/speculated earlier on. 

A true Sony A7R and Oly OMD1 killer. Canon at its "most innovative". Still hope it's not true though. :


----------



## RGomezPhotos (Dec 2, 2013)

Not ground breaking but looks pretty cool. For $300, I'd probably buy one. If $400 or more, it better have some really nice lenses available...


----------



## Eimajm (Dec 2, 2013)

I'm interested in the M2 if I could get a compact 15mm prime with it to go with the 22mm. I not fussed at massive fps as I don't think the camera is aimed at the sports market, rather a nicer PAS with better image quality. I would also be quite happy with a rebel sensor, I was pleased with the IQ of my 350d when I had it and prints out from it were very good too. Just focus on new lenses and I'm sure it'll be a winner.


----------



## Bob Howland (Dec 2, 2013)

As I've written before, this model may represent nothing more than Canon's attempt to reduce the cost of manufacturing an M body. I doubt that Canon makes any profit on the original M body at the current kit prices and they weren't able to attract buyers at the original prices, so they may be trying to make something they can sell profitably with a 22mm lens for $500. A smaller M2 at that price would compete very well against something like the Panasonic GM1, especially with the larger Canon sensor.

That would explain the firmware upgrade for the current model. Essentially its development cost was absorbed in creating usable firmware for the new model.

All I know is that neither the current M nor the M2 makes me want to pull out my credit card. I'll wait for Canon's answer to the Panasonic GX7 (and/or maybe the GH3) but only if Canon also introduces their answer to the Metabones Speed Booster


----------



## iron-t (Dec 2, 2013)

Specs are fine if its real-world AF performance is good. Certainly it's not the killer mirrorless many are pining for. Coming from M4/3 prior to Canon DSLRs, I'd grab one for the size-to-IQ-to-cost balance, plus the bonus of being able to mount Canon glass that is much better than M4/3 offerings.


----------



## kphoto99 (Dec 2, 2013)

Famateur said:


> If this rumor is true, I think it's evidence of Canon beginning to make mirrorless the new point-and-shoot market.
> 
> As camera phones devour the point-and-shoot market, Canon needs a new consumer-level bread-and-butter line that's good enough to be a clear advantage over camera phones but low enough in feature set to avoid cannibalizing the DSLR market. It wouldn't surprise me if Canon introduced several slightly different flavors of the the consumer-level M. For the consumer market, I doubt any of them have any clue which generation of sensor is in the camera, and they probably don't care. If it's cheap enough and has nifty enough features and is easy to use, the consumer market will be happy.
> 
> Obviously, neither the current M nor the M of this rumor represent a serious attempt by Canon to show the world how the ultimate mirrorless body should be done. If/when Canon decides to make such a statement, I'm confident it will be nothing less than spectacular. Meanwhile, we can all speculate on what will motivate Canon to do it...oh, and take some pictures between forum posts.



Every single P&S that I can think of had a build in flash. The M has to have it to be considered a P&S replacement. The 90EX that came in the kit I got is not any more powerful then a build in flash, and it is a pain to attach whenever a flash is required. I had a hell of a time explaining that to my wife (the M was for her).


----------



## BL (Dec 2, 2013)

hmm. no new lenses?

DOA


----------



## drjlo (Dec 2, 2013)

RGomezPhotos said:


> Not ground breaking but looks pretty cool. For $300, I'd probably buy one. If $400 or more, it better have some really nice lenses available...



Well, considering the original EOS-M/22mm kit launched at $799, $300 seems awfully optimistic. If this rumor is true, I see NO reason for us current EOS-M owners to "upgrade."


----------



## Famateur (Dec 2, 2013)

kphoto99 said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > If this rumor is true, I think it's evidence of Canon beginning to make mirrorless the new point-and-shoot market.
> ...



Excellent point. Even on a DSLR, I like having a built-in flash to use for fill for sunny/back-lit scenes and/or catch lights in the eyes. They'll eventually need to add a pop-up flash to the EOS M, in my opinion.


----------



## infared (Dec 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry ...but I just have to laugh. No mention of a VF for the new M?
> ...



Not having a heart attack...quite the opposite...I am laughing my ass off at the ineptness of the "photo giant"......Mirrorless is such incredible tech to make cameras smaller and lighter...Canon could have an unbelievable small light "system" by now...but nada.......so.. in the meantime carrying my E-P5 EVERYWHERE and creating images! I will skip the popcorn....thanks. 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3730/10980970415_2cfcc82226_o.jpg


----------



## lw (Dec 2, 2013)

BL said:


> hmm. no new lenses?
> 
> DOA



The 'leak' is of the camera's spec.

Where does it imply there are no new lenses?


----------



## BL (Dec 2, 2013)

> Canon EOS M2
> 
> Below are the rumored specs of the Canon EOS M2 that will be announced for CES 2014 in Las Vegas.
> 
> ...



so with only 3 lenses available, one of which is inexplicably unavailable in US markets, is very telling for the M system. lenses sell cameras, and there's still nothing of a roadmap, not even rumors for more lenses in this mount.

no bother, i for one am very much looking forward to picking up the next M II at the "$299" (equivalent) firesale


----------



## dufflover (Dec 2, 2013)

Wow like others hope this rumor is not true. 10% smaller sounds good, and a small fps bump is nice - I'm looking at this as a lower end camera btw so no VFs, etc. - but +1 more to the disappointment to the sensor remarks. Anymore of these old 18MP derivatives in new cameras is ... beyond belief (well I suppose not, the layman buyer doesn't know).

Price is the other one. For the same price as the M is being flogged off at now I suppose it would be an ok spec and purchase, however I have a feeling like anything "new" from Canon probably looking at AU$600+ price tag.

Didn't know about the different versions of their Hybrid CMOS sensors. That means I should go back to centre point only on my M so it has the phase detect?


----------



## pwp (Dec 2, 2013)

Maximilian said:


> Right now I am much more tempted to buy a SL1/100D if I want a "compact" system.


That's exactly what I have done. The SL1 is brilliantly tiny, with all the attributes of being a DSLR. 
There will be a completeness with my SL1 if Canon ship a 22mm pancake EF-S.

And the new M? Wot? No EVF? This alone validates my decision to go with the SL1 as my lightweight travel camera. It's no 5D3 or 1-series, but I have used it as a third body on commercial jobs quite happily.

-pw


----------



## traveller (Dec 2, 2013)

lw said:


> BL said:
> 
> 
> > hmm. no new lenses?
> ...



I'm guessing because the rumour doesn't mention any, but then it's only a rumour. 

I would think that the lens that would be announced with such a camera (i.e. targeting "smaller") would be a short range collapsible/power standard zoom, like the Panasonic 12-32, their PZ 14-42, or Sony's 16-50mm (actually, not too much like this lens because it's bloody rubbish! )


----------



## brad-man (Dec 2, 2013)

It is difficult to understand why Canon would leak news of a new M body before leaking some news about lenses. Personally, I wouldn't mind them keeping the same sensor so long as there's a significant improvement in AF. I also don't care about a VF and I'm satisfied with a hotshoe. It's all about size. I very much care about lenses. If Canon wants any more money of mine directed towards the M, they need to make it a _system_...


----------



## Hannes (Dec 2, 2013)

One could hope this is the M100 or something if they continue their dslr naming scheme. M10 with better 70D sensor and a M2 with FF, that'd be amazing. No mention of three M's though but I'd be surprised if canon hasn't at least run an analysis of what it'd cost and what they could make on having a FF mirrorless camera given the new Sony. Maybe this will be the M10 and the better version the M2? It is a shame the current M with the 22mm hasn't ever approached the $300 equivalent here in the uk as then I would likely have bought one but given that they go for more than that used on ebay I won't get one anytime soon


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry ...but I just have to laugh. No mention of a VF for the new M?
> ...



hah, because if you wait until the specs are real then it's too late

better Canon sees people going crazy so they know what to avoid or back to try to back out of doing way ahead of time, it takes 10 seconds of effort to get the point across so why not regardless of whether it's CR -2 or CR2.


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 2, 2013)

I don't understand why everybody is clamouring for new M lenses. The three they make are very good and cover 99.9% of the type of shots that most M's are used for, personally, I don't want a second lens collection for my _compact camera_, that makes it not compact! I was sold on the fact that I can take an M with me traveling, I have a small camera for casual shots and I have the EF convertor so I could use it as backup with the EF lenses I am already carrying.


----------



## Bob Howland (Dec 2, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't understand why everybody is clamouring for new M lenses. The three they make are very good and cover 99.9% of the type of shots that most M's are used for, personally, I don't want a second lens collection for my _compact camera_, that makes it not compact! I was sold on the fact that I can take an M with me traveling, I have a small camera for casual shots and I have the EF convertor so I could use it as backup with the EF lenses I am already carrying.



I'd settle for a tiny native 15-85 lens and a superb alternative to the Metabones Speed Booster for EF lenses. I'm resigned to the fact that what I want in the speed booster will probably cost as much as or more than the camera body itself.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 2, 2013)

pwp said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > Right now I am much more tempted to buy a SL1/100D if I want a "compact" system.
> ...


It is. If there are only 2 choices of lenses for EOS-M, and no viewfinder to put my eye on him, I guess G1X is a more useful camera. What is the advantage of a camera with interchangeable lenses, if there are no more lenses to buy?


----------



## Zv (Dec 3, 2013)

CMOS Hybrid II?? That's not Dual Pixel AF is it?? Disappointing. 

These specs are about the same as the old one but with wifi. If that's the case I will be very happy because I like my M and don't want to upgrade it anytime soon. 

Yay for lousy specs!


----------



## BL (Dec 3, 2013)

Zv said:


> CMOS Hybrid II?? That's not Dual Pixel AF is it?? Disappointing...
> 
> Yay for lousy specs!



hahaha +1


----------



## Woody (Dec 3, 2013)

Quite believable actually. The EOS-M is selling very well at its current price, so there's no incentive to make any major change. 

Except for that 2.3x AF speed increase bit... From http://www.canon.com.sg/personal/news/detail/firmware-auto-focus:
"With this firmware update, focusing speed of the One-Shot AF on the EOS M is improved. This is especially noticeable when Live Multi-Point AF is being used, improved AF speed* shows a maximum of *2.3x increase* when compared to previous speed." Someone obviously got mixed up with old news. ;D


----------



## spinworkxroy (Dec 3, 2013)

Well, I loved the original M because it's small and the images from the 22mm lens was indeed beautiful. 
However, that was merely a 650D in a small body which is fine for the price i paid. But it was always only going to be a "fun" grab an go camera.

The EOS M2 if rumoured specs (they usually are) are true, then i would say boo hoo...these specs should've been in the EOS M fromt he beginning.
They had 2yr maybe to develop a new M and all they could do is to put a 70D into a small body?

Do note that everyone else in the market has already uped their game...and CES2014...i belive Sony has plenty of new stuff coming out as well...

Is the EOS M2 going to be able to compete? I highly doubt.

I love Canon stuff, always have but with the market moving so fast recently, and with Canon taking it's own sweet time, i couldn't wait.

i still have my EOS M, i still have a few L lenses for it because i sold my 5D3...

But i can see myself slowly getting rid of everything because i got tired of waiting for Canon..

I love my A7R now and using that camera, makes me wished Canon did it first...it really is what i wanted and more..just a pity it has a Sony name, not Canon...i'm not a fan of Sony but i have to give it to them for this camera...Canon, please buck up and maybe i will go back to you one day.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2013)

Famateur said:


> kphoto99 said:
> 
> 
> > Famateur said:
> ...



On a P&S, the flash is very close to the lens axis - rather than fill flash and catchlights, you get deer-in-headlights and red eye. An M with an EVF and a popup flash...that's a 100D/SL1. Smaller is better!


----------



## dufflover (Dec 3, 2013)

I dunno about comparisons to an SL1 with size. When I compared them the SL1 in store with my EOS-M it was still noticeably smaller. Crucially the difference between pocket (albeit large/coat) and not.


----------



## shutterlag (Dec 3, 2013)

spinworkxroy said:


> Well, I loved the original M because it's small and the images from the 22mm lens was indeed beautiful.
> However, that was merely a 650D in a small body which is fine for the price i paid. But it was always only going to be a "fun" grab an go camera.
> 
> The EOS M2 if rumoured specs (they usually are) are true, then i would say boo hoo...these specs should've been in the EOS M fromt he beginning.
> ...



I agree with you 100%. I have a 6D as well as an EOS M. Question for you- since you've got the A7R - what do you think of using an adapter with the L glass? Have you tried any? I'm also looking at the Contax G mount Zeiss glass, since the adapter supports AF. There appears to be several interesting lenses in G mount for not much money.


----------



## dufflover (Dec 3, 2013)

spinworkxroy said:


> They had 2yr maybe to develop a new M and all they could do is to put a 70D into a small body?



70D sensor in the current body and (lack of) features for $300~$400 like now would be ok.
Unfortunately this "new" camera isn't even that namely sensor AF,


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2013)

dufflover said:


> I dunno about comparisons to an SL1 with size. When I compared them the SL1 in store with my EOS-M it was still noticeably smaller. Crucially the difference between pocket (albeit large/coat) and not.



True...and my M is _a lot_ smaller than my 1D X. But, add an EVF, popup flash, a rate button, etc., then compare it to next year's SL2 (the World's Even More Smallerest dSLR), and see how they measure up...


----------



## TAF (Dec 3, 2013)

Bob Howland said:


> As I've written before, this model may represent nothing more than Canon's attempt to reduce the cost of manufacturing an M body.




But they've already paid for all the tooling for the original body. Creating a new one to make it smaller (which, given how small the M is already seems silly to me, and I have small hands) seems like a waste of money.

I'm anxiously waiting for Zeiss to come out with EF-M lenses. Until then, the 22mm and some of my old FD glass with an adapter are keeping me quite busy.


----------



## jrista (Dec 3, 2013)

TAF said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > As I've written before, this model may represent nothing more than Canon's attempt to reduce the cost of manufacturing an M body.
> ...



The R&D cost to design a smaller body is a minor fraction of the total materials cost, shipping weight cost, etc. to manufacture tens of thousands or millions of them. The fundamental cost savings of reducing the size is well worth the minimal R&D effort to design it.


----------



## Rienzphotoz (Dec 3, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> <li>AF Speed 2.3 times faster</li>
> <li>Wifi in camera</li>
> <li>Can operate the camera with a smartphone.</li>
> <li>Wireless image transfer to the smartphone</li>


Sounds good


----------



## tcmatthews (Dec 3, 2013)

shutterlag said:


> spinworkxroy said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I loved the original M because it's small and the images from the 22mm lens was indeed beautiful.
> ...



I bought the EOS M because I was thinking of getting a large sensor compact or the Sony 20MM NEX lens. They put it on fire sell and I could not resist it priced less than a Lens. I will replace it when it dies. Given that EOS M is built like a tank that will not be anytime soon. 

I have been using my Nex6 as my primary camera for several months now mostly with legacy glass. I cannot speak to the A7r I plan on getting one of the A7 variants sometime next year. I imagine it is not much faster than a Nex6 auto-focusing with the Metabones adapter. A good approximation of auto-focus would be to to use your 6D in live-view with the L lens your are thinking of using. 

The Sony cameras are more ergonomic with big lens than the EOS M and I feel comfortable using my Tamaron 70-300mm on a NEX6. It is amazing how much the battery bump helps with holding the camera. 

As for Canon lens on Sony using Medabones.

70-200mm F4L no IS Auto focus to slow for me Manual to shaky unless on tripod a bit long.
100mm F2.8L IS way to slow auto focus usable Manual focus
85mm F1.8 usable auto focus and manual focus
shorty 40 usable prefer to manually focus it.
24mm F2.8 IS usable but I got it today so I have not fully tested

In general all are slower than using a EOS M with the adapter. I have defaulted to using primarily manual focus for most lens on the Nex6. 

I have found that primes work best. Most of my zooms are just to bulky. The Metabones does not seem to work with full manual lens with out conformation chips. It also cannot focus older non-USM lens. (At least I have not been able to get mine to work with manual lens.) So for a cheap non-electric adapter is also useful. 

Personally when I buy an A7r I do not plan on using any auto focus lens or any of the current Sony lens. You can build up a complete set of Lens out of legacy glass for the price of the 35ZE alone. The Sony focus peeking blows ML focus peaking out of the water once you get use to it. 

I think I will wait on the A7r until I see more lens. I also want to compare it to Something so I bough a 6d, it arrives tomorrow. 

But the reality is high speed Zooms are not really the way to go with small large sensor cameras like the EOS M2 or the A7r. Small relatively compact primes are the way to go.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 3, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> On a P&S, the flash is very close to the lens axis - rather than fill flash and catchlights, you get deer-in-headlights and red eye.



Not always, not always by any remote means at all! Especially with pre-flash (and red-eye can be fixed easily enough anyway). Believe me I have the shots to prove it.


----------



## Aglet (Dec 3, 2013)

Fuji X


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 3, 2013)

Someone on another forum says that they just saw it announced in Japan! They say that all of these specs appear to be correct other than for a BIG ONE. It is said, in reality, to use the 70D sensor and have the full top live view AF and everything else that sensor brings.

OK, now THAT makes a LOT more sense. Maybe Canon is in the game after all. The rumors specs or the sensor hadn't made any sense at all.


----------



## kurapika (Dec 3, 2013)

For the one who want to know more about the differences between M and M2 check the canon official site
http://cweb.canon.jp/newsrelease/2013-12/pr-eos-m2.html

Canon EOS M2 is officially announced in Japan! NOT RUMORS!


----------



## Woody (Dec 3, 2013)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Someone on another forum says that they just saw it announced in Japan! They say that all of these specs appear to be correct other than for a BIG ONE. It is said, in reality, to use the 70D sensor and have the full top live view AF and everything else that sensor brings.



http://cweb.canon.jp/newsrelease/2013-12/pr-eos-m2.html

Release: mid-Dec 2013.

18 MP APS-C sensor with hybrid CMOS AF II. This is the same sensor as the one in SL1/100D. According to DPReview (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7526513643/consumer-slr-camera-roundup-2013/9)

"The Canon Rebel SL1/100D also has something that most of the others do not: useably fast autofocus in live view and movie modes. When used with STM lenses, the SL1 gets closer to mirrorless speed and only the larger A58 can match it in this department."


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 3, 2013)

Woody said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Someone on another forum says that they just saw it announced in Japan! They say that all of these specs appear to be correct other than for a BIG ONE. It is said, in reality, to use the 70D sensor and have the full top live view AF and everything else that sensor brings.
> ...



oh man I guess that guy on the other forum was wrong and this rumor was 100% correct 

I wonder what they mean by"As a result, in the ranging area wider than, enables fast focusing about 2.3 times ※ 2, it is possible to realize a shooting in the composition he wanted, ability to respond to a moving subject is improved conventional models ※ 1 will.

※ conventional models that have been updated to firmware Ver.2.0 more than one comparison is "EOS M".
※ 2 One-Shot AF, Live AF multi-point, use "F3.5-5.6 IS STM EF-M18-55mm", shooting at focal length 55mm. "

Do they mean it has 2.3x faster AF compared to the M Firmware v1 or compared to the M Firmware V2? If the latter then they have really, REALLLLY lost the plot.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 3, 2013)

although the fact that the release is now back to mid-Dec instead of 2014 maybe just means that it's a stop gap until they get the 70D sensor version out in early 2014, kind of a tricky scenario! Either you miss holiday sales for this, the sort of camera that IS a stocking stuffer type or you end up releasing a much better version just a couple months later and burn all the holiday shoppers. No win. I wonder why they didn't plan it to use the 70D sensor to begin with and get that version out sooner.


----------



## Zv (Dec 3, 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the original M have Digic 5? Why are they boasting about that on the Japanese website. That's not news. 

I see the AF assist light and IR remote sensor have changed orientation! That's about it. I wanna watch that video but I'm in work. Screw it. Here goes.


----------



## Woody (Dec 3, 2013)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Do they mean it has 2.3x faster AF compared to the M Firmware v1 or compared to the M Firmware V2? If the latter then they have really, REALLLLY lost the plot.



They mean EOS M2 is 2.3x faster than EOS M firmware v2 which is 2.3x faster than EOS M firmware v1. Very strange, but that's the way it is.


----------



## squarebox (Dec 3, 2013)

I just got an email from Canon a moment ago announcing the M2 for mid-December with no price yet. Being 8% smaller, with improved autofocus and wireless built in


━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━…‥
　■ミラーレスカメラ新製品「EOS M2」発表のご案内
━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━…‥
本日、オートフォーカス性能を大幅に向上させたミラーレスカメラの新製品
“EOS M2”を発表しました。発売は2013年12月中旬の予定です。

　─────────────────────
　製品名称　　：EOS M2
　　　　　　　　※ボディカラー：ブラック／ホワイト
　本体標準価格：オープン価格
　発売予定　　：2013年12月中旬
　─────────────────────
　　　　　　　　※ボディー単体の販売はブラックのみとなります。

EOS シリーズと同等の高画質を小型・軽量ボディで実現した“EOS M2”は、
従来機種「EOS M」から約8%小型化しながら、オートフォーカス性能が大幅に
進化し無線LAN機能を新搭載。
手軽に高画質な写真を撮影し、外出先などでも友人や家族と共有できます。
クリスマス、忘年会、旅行、新年のご挨拶などイベント目白押しの年末年始
のマストアイテムになりそうです！

★新製品の詳細は以下のＵＲＬにアクセスしてご確認ください。
http://canon.jp/eos/special/m2sp/index.html


　─────────────────────
　◆ EOS M2 デビューキャンペーン
　─────────────────────
　キャンペーン期間中に“EOS M2”ご購入者にもれなく、トラベラーズノート
　（EOS M2 ロゴ刻印）をプレゼント！
　さらに、抽選で20名様に土屋鞄のボストンバッグをプレゼントします。
　“EOS M2”を購入して旅行に嬉しいグッズを手に入れるチャンスです！

　　▼キャンペーンの詳細はこちら
　　http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/campaign/m2-debut/index.html


----------



## Woody (Dec 3, 2013)

squarebox said:


> I just got an email from Canon a moment ago announcing the M2 for mid-December with no price yet. Being 8% smaller, with improved autofocus and wireless built in



Prices in Japan here: http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20131203_626013.html
Higher than EOS-M now, but lower than when EOS-M was first launched. Oh well, no one is buying till its price drops to current EOS-M level...

Looks like NL rumor (July 7) is quite accurate. See http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/07/the-next-eos-m-cameras-cr1/:

"According to a source at NL, Canon is going to introduce a “basic” EOS M 18mp successor first, and follow it up with a 20mp APS-C dual pixel model afterwards. The latter camera is said to be aimed at the “full frame Canon shooter”, and will have an optional viewfinder. This goes along with what we’ve previously been told.

Also in development is a focal length reducer for EF lenses, this will be announced with the 20mp EOS M camera."

Also, later CR2 rumor (Sep 3) http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/09/the-next-eos-m-cr2/:

"We’re told that an EOS M announcement is coming soon. This source believes two cameras will be announced simultaneously, although that is not yet confirmed. As mentioned previously, the first camera will be a minor upgrade from the current EOS M and priced much lower than the original EOS M. It will also be available in more colors than the previous model.

A second higher end camera will be have more accessories available for it, such as an EVF. The system will also get a new flash.

A longer telephoto zoom will also be announced alongside at least one of these cameras."


----------



## TomazK (Dec 3, 2013)

Looks like Engadget has some info as well:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/03/canon-eos-m2-mirrorless-camera/

T


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 3, 2013)

wow ... Canon can! 
Finally managed to put WiFi into the EOS-M ... were it should have been all along .. like in many cheapo powershots. I am so impressed! And so small, so white, so CUTE! 

Looks like the rumour was right: marginally improved iteration of the current M to come first. Next? The high-end, super-premium "Hello-Kitty special edition" with all two available lenses in special festive pink!


----------



## spinworkxroy (Dec 3, 2013)

shutterlag said:


> I agree with you 100%. I have a 6D as well as an EOS M. Question for you- since you've got the A7R - what do you think of using an adapter with the L glass? Have you tried any? I'm also looking at the Contax G mount Zeiss glass, since the adapter supports AF. There appears to be several interesting lenses in G mount for not much money.



Well, i'm using the adapter for the EOS M to EF lenses. The EOS M on it's own is already slow. With the EF lenses, it is not much slower. But sometimes it doesn't even focus. 

One reason why i kept all my L lenses was to use it with the A7r becasue there isn't any FE lenses other than the 35mm.
However, when i used the metabones mk3 on the A7R, the AF became sooooo slow and even failed to focus sometimes. It basically became an EOS M! 
The ONLY adapter that work well was Sony's own adapter for Amount glass which basically makes it an A99 and that adapter is FAST! Even faster than FE glass on the camera on it's own.

It's because of the slow AF speed, i have decided i will NOT want to use my EF lenses on the A7R.
To me, that camera only works with FE glass, A mount glass or manual glass.


----------



## lw (Dec 3, 2013)

I have put a summary of EOS M2 features and my own take on my EOS M blog
http://eos-m.net/news/eos-m2-announced-official/


----------



## Famateur (Dec 3, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > kphoto99 said:
> ...



In low light or at night, I would totally agree. That's when I pull out my 430EX II. For daylight fill (like someone sitting in shade or at the beach with the sun at their back) , I've been very pleased with the results from my G12's built-in flash.

By the way, it's a hoot seeing peoples' expressions when they see a 430EX II on a G12.  It looks much more at home on my 70D. 

EDIT: Just thought I'd add that perhaps the reason for success with the built-in flash on my G12 is that the flash output is very easy to adjust. Press one button, then turn the dial...


----------



## Famateur (Dec 3, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> dufflover said:
> 
> 
> > I dunno about comparisons to an SL1 with size. When I compared them the SL1 in store with my EOS-M it was still noticeably smaller. Crucially the difference between pocket (albeit large/coat) and not.
> ...



If it's smaller, maybe they'll call it the SL 3/4. ;D


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 3, 2013)

lw said:


> I have put a summary of EOS M2 features and my own take on my EOS M blog
> http://eos-m.net/news/eos-m2-announced-official/


excellent, thanks! 

the following bit of information is of specific interest:


> AF Speed: The good news is that it appears the AF speed has been increased by a factor of 2.3x over the current M model that has V 2.0 firmware installed as highlighted in the quote below.


----------

