# Looking for advice regarding ring flashes



## AlexB (Apr 8, 2015)

Hi guys

For a few days now I've been thinking about maybe adding a ring flash to my kit. I have experience with lighting in general but I've never used a ring flash, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here would be so kind and chime in with a few tips or some advice.

I'm looking to use the ring light mainly for filling in shadows when shooting tight portraits (head only, or head and shoulders). My working distance is normally somewhere between 1,3-2m away from the subject. I would want to use this light on sunny days with wider apertures, so high-speed sync capability is a must. Since I move around a lot a more compact and portable unit is preferred, and it must be battery powered.

Looking at different solutions I gravitate towards something like the Canon MR-14EX II Macro Ring Light which attaches directly to the lens. However this unit is specified for macro work, so I guess that may not work for me. Actually, all the ring flashes I've seen that seem to fit what I'm after have the word macro in their names. I don't know if there's anything specific that limit the use of those flashes, or if it's just a trend to call them macro.

Any advice on a ring flash that could work for me?


Thanks

- Alex


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## Marsu42 (Apr 8, 2015)

AlexB said:


> I would want to use this light on sunny days with wider apertures, so high-speed sync capability is a must. Since I move around a lot a more compact and portable unit is preferred, and it must be battery powered.



You do know that the effect of hss on a sunny day is rather limited? I often do fill flash, but with a high-powered 600ex and the 200mm reflector setting (i.e. most bundled light).

I cannot really imagine that you'll be very happy with this with a wider apertures (= very high shutter speeds) and a light output and falloff of a ring flash. I reckon there are reasons why people do this in a studio or lug around multiple flashes or even monolights with car batteries...


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## cervantes (Apr 8, 2015)

Hi,

Ringlites are designed for macro work because of their ability to get the light directly in front of the lens even with very short working distance. Due to this short distance the power output doesn't have to be very high (thus the low guide number of 14).

You didn't state a compelling reason why you would want a ring flash. A regular flash like the 600RT or 430EXII sound like a much better solution for portrait fill light. They have a much higher power output - the MR14EXII will most likely not be strong enough in HSS mode, like Marsu42 already said.

Also realize that you can use the MR14EXII only with a handful of canon lenses (usually macro lenses).

I wouldn't recommend an MR14EXII if you are not planning on using it for macro work (where it is unrivaled of course).

BR!


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## mackguyver (Apr 8, 2015)

The most compact and least expensive ring flash for portraits is the AlienBees ABR800 which can be used with an external battery pack. Prices go way, way up from there, and I don't believe any of them support HSS natively, though you might be able to hack them with a Pocketwizard.

What you may be interested in is a ring flash adapter like the Ray Flas, Orbis Ring Flash Kit, or the Round Flash. They would work for your scenario, but the light fall off is going to be drastic, as they are really designed for use indoors.

I think the real question is why a ring flash? For studio / indoor work it gives a unique look, but as a fill flash, from more than a short distance away, it would likely be indistinguishable from a plain speedlite. Canon's fill flash with HSS in Av mode is pretty brilliant on it's own with a 420EX or larger speedlite. I think you would be spending a lot of money for very little in return.


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## Cranswick852 (Apr 8, 2015)

I'd echo the comments already received. I have the MR-14EX you're looking at (and a 600EX) and it is a great flash, but probably not for the role you're looking at.

1. It probably lacks the power you're looking for to fill harsh shadows in HSS mode (as indicated by its guide number).

2. It would severely limit your choice of lens. I use it with the 100m f2.8 L macro which has a 67mm filter size and still have to use a step-down ring to fit the flash. There's no vignetting in this setup, but I couldn't use the flash with a wider lens, nor on my 70-200 f2.8, since that has a 77mm filter size.

The benefits, of course, are: 2 independent flashes in one head (but at even moderate distances these will blend into one); and ring (actually, 2x semi-circles) catchlights in eyes but, for what you're looking at, I'd say cons outweigh the pros and you'd be better off, and save money, with a small speedlight.


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## LDS (Apr 8, 2015)

AlexB said:


> I'm looking to use the ring light mainly for filling in shadows when shooting tight portraits (head only, or head and shoulders). My working distance is normally somewhere between 1,3-2m away from the subject.



You're looking for a some kind of softbox or "beauty dish", not a ring flash. There are some models that can be mounted on a portable strobe, but both needs to have a good size to work as intended (unless you can put them very close to the subject).
If you need some kind of "ethereal" high key effect with light coming from all directions, a tent, a "tunnel" or something alike works best.
Most ring flashes are designed for close-ups and will have adapter rings for most common macro lenses, it may be difficult to mount them on some common portrait lenses, and anyway they have small guide numbers. You also get very small reflectors (remember is the relative size of the light source compared to the subject that matters...) , and quite in axis with the lens - good to light the eye interior as well


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## Marsu42 (Apr 8, 2015)

LDS said:


> You're looking for a some kind of softbox or "beauty dish", not a ring flash.



True that, though even several normal hss flashes in various angles around the lens result in a "ring" lighting ... use google images to get some ideas of what contraptions ppl have built to mount flashes on their cameras.


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## LDS (Apr 8, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> True that, though even several normal hss flashes in various angles around the lens result in a "ring" lighting ...



You mean circular flash brackets with three-four strobes mounted along it? It could work, but I find it a somewhat heavy and uncomfortable setup. Also, but for some kind of portraits, I'm not sure it's a "natural" lighting suiting every subject.


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## AlexB (Apr 9, 2015)

Thank you everyone for your advice and inputs, it's all greatly appreciated.

After reading through your replies and thinking a bit harder about this, it is more clear to me that this is probably not going to work as I first imagined - not with a compact and portable setup anyway.

The idea of a ring flash came when I remembered reading several years ago about David Hobby, that he was/is using a ring flash to lift shadows in many of his photos. That was sort of my thought to copy that technique.

Again, thanks guys. This time at least I didn't have to end up spending money to figure this out.

- Alex


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 9, 2015)

AlexB said:


> The idea of a ring flash came when I remembered reading several years ago about David Hobby, that he was/is using a ring flash to lift shadows in many of his photos. That was sort of my thought to copy that technique.



Ring flash ≠ macro ring lite.


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## AlexB (Apr 9, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Ring flash ≠ macro ring lite.



Yeah, I got that bit now 

The reference to the MR-14EX was mainly to illustrate what type of unit (two part unit, attaches to lens and hot shoe, fairly compact) I would prefer in case anyone had any suitable suggestions.

I did also take another look at the Orbis, which looks too awkward/bulky with that awful bracket, and I looked at the Ray Flash. The Ray Flash might work, but I doubt I can get enough power out of a RX600 at HSS at something like 1/2000.


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## YuengLinger (May 8, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> The most compact and least expensive ring flash for portraits is the AlienBees ABR800 which can be used with an external battery pack. Prices go way, way up from there, and I don't believe any of them support HSS natively, though you might be able to hack them with a Pocketwizard.
> 
> What you may be interested in is a ring flash adapter like the Ray Flas, Orbis Ring Flash Kit, or the Round Flash. They would work for your scenario, but the light fall off is going to be drastic, as they are really designed for use indoors.
> 
> I think the real question is why a ring flash? For studio / indoor work it gives a unique look, but as a fill flash, from more than a short distance away, it would likely be indistinguishable from a plain speedlite. Canon's fill flash with HSS in Av mode is pretty brilliant on it's own with a 420EX or larger speedlite. I think you would be spending a lot of money for very little in return.



Hi, mack. Have you used the Buff ring flash? Just the other day considering it.


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## agierke (May 8, 2015)

i have the ABR800 ringflash and though i dont use it as much i do like it. couple thoughts about it from my experience so far:

1. it isn't well equipped to fight strong daylight. at only 320ws its a bit underpowered. i did a quick test some years back and i was underwhelmed. should do fine in subdued daylight though.

2. it can be an uncomfortable light for a model to work with if they are looking into camera, especially at higher power settings. you have to remember that the ring will shoot light directly into the eyes of your subject. i sat in for a few test shots myself and felt quite a bit of discomfort in my eyes after being hit with this light. at lower power settings and longer shooting distances it becomes more tolerable. just be aware.

3. my primary interest in this light is to use it in studio as a main up front with two large lights to the left and right to create an edge (effectively eliminating the signature "ring" look while maintaining the flat but specular look on subjects faces). i recall doing this once a while back and liking the results though id like to revisit it a little more extensively. if a get a chance to soon i'll post the results.

to the OP, i actually understand what you are looking for and the reference to David Hobby's work. i think you are on the right track actually. the ABR800 would be the ideal tool to use...though not a simple one to use. outdoors in strong sun at close working distances may be a bit extreme and problematic for a couple of reasons but the idea you are having sounds fundamentally good to me. 

you could actually do a quick and cheap DIY test with some foam board and some aluminum foil. cut out a circle, cut a tight hole in center so your lens will fit tightly, wrap the foam board with aluminum and the affix to your lens. shoot this set up in direct sun and you should start to get an idea of what it will look like. if it looks promising, buy the ringlight to gain added power and flexibility.


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## YuengLinger (May 8, 2015)

agierke said:


> i have the ABR800 ringflash and though i dont use it as much i do like it. couple thoughts about it from my experience so far:
> 
> 1. it isn't well equipped to fight strong daylight. at only 320ws its a bit underpowered. i did a quick test some years back and i was underwhelmed. should do fine in subdued daylight though.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your experience.


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## jdramirez (May 8, 2015)

I bought Ray flash a while back and it was ridiculously cumbersome... And it was broken (plastic part cracked)... So I returned it. I would not recommend that.


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## pwp (May 9, 2015)

As a very satisfied user of a pair of Godox AD360 flashes, I'd go directly to the new Godox 400 w/s ringflash if I had the need for ringflash. Read up here:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2015/02/22/review-godox-witstro-ar400-ring-flash/#.VU3kaEbNpFU
http://flashhavoc.com/godox-witstro-ar400-ring-flash-coming/
http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Camera_Flash_Witstro_AR400_Powerful_Ring_Flash.html

I'd go for this ahead of the PCB ringflash in spite of the fact I already have half a dozen PCB Einsteins and VML's. I couldn't be happier with the Einsteins & the whole PCB system, but I'm increasingly doing more commercial projects with the AD-360's due to being compact, lightweight and easily achieving HSS when triggered with Phottix Odins. For outdoor ringflash use, the option of gutsy HSS will be a genuine plus.

-pw


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