# Go small or go home (T4i)



## wellfedCanuck (Apr 4, 2012)

It's income tax refund time. If the 5D3 had come in $1K cheaper, I could have stretched for it, but with other places for a busy family to put its money- it ain't gonna happen this time around. So, to replace my Rebel XT I've decided to just get another Rebel for now. 

Sure, I could buy a 60D, 7D or even a 5D2, but they're not the cameras I want, and- (let's be realistic) as a hobbyist with other interests- I can make do with a 650D. Maybe next year I can spin the Rebel down to one of my kids and get the camera I_ really _ want

With that decision essentially made- the question becomes- pull the trigger now on a T3i or wait for the upgrade? I'm getting conflicting information about a release date... the T3i rebates were extended, yet the literature for the new camera is apparently already out there.

Anybody have any good rumours, mysterious african safari pics, manuals on Amazon, leaked prototype photos? (Just doesn't have the same caché, does it?)


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## garyploski (Apr 5, 2012)

I feel your pain, wellfedCanuck.

I'm itching for any news on the T4i. The other day someone I work with told me that a CostCo he frequents informed him that their T3i stock was almost gone and that it wouldn't be resupplied. What that means exactly? Who knows.


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## wellfedCanuck (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks, Gary. Three pages of messages from cool kids blathering on about their 5D3s, but nobody has any info for us poor cousins...


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## briansquibb (Apr 6, 2012)

I think the entry level bodies are the ones that will improve the most to distance themselves from the consumer stuff. 

This is the area where face recognition makes sense, iFCL, better AF, metering on the AF point etc will start to appear. Probably 4fps, 18mp and Digic5 with better high iso as well.

The xxxD range will turn more into a compact DSLR than an entry level. Exciting times could be on the way at that end.


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## Bamyo13 (Apr 6, 2012)

Here's a picture I found on some rumor site, downloaded, but can't find the source now. Wasn't a good site anyway, at least as how I remember. I'm not sure if it's photoshopped, and can't check because that error analysis site got shut down. Also, Tineye proved useless for this photo too. I am specifically waiting for 650D too. In my opinion, I would either guess this month, or around mid-May that we'll see the announcement. If not that, then humanity is ending.


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## wellfedCanuck (Apr 6, 2012)

interesting, thanks!


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## preppyak (Apr 6, 2012)

wellfedCanuck said:


> With that decision essentially made- the question becomes- pull the trigger now on a T3i or wait for the upgrade? I'm getting conflicting information about a release date... the T3i rebates were extended, yet the literature for the new camera is apparently already out there.


Do remember that the T2i is going for $500ish now, the T3i is $600 at Fry's today, and the T4i, if you're lucky, will only cost like $899 or $949. If it gets a bunch of feature upgrades, then its $999. And then you are waiting until November for the first round of major price drops, where you can get it in the $700s.

Sort of the exact problem 5dII v 5dIII people had...if the current model works for you, waiting is just pictures you aren't taking with it.


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## AprilForever (Apr 6, 2012)

The perspective of the 4 looks off to me, and it appears sharper also than the other two charracters... I call shananigans, alas...

But, when this new magic comes out, my little bro will likely be soon there after scrounging his arby's earnings into a t2i...


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## wellfedCanuck (Apr 6, 2012)

preppyak said:


> wellfedCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > With that decision essentially made- the question becomes- pull the trigger now on a T3i or wait for the upgrade? I'm getting conflicting information about a release date... the T3i rebates were extended, yet the literature for the new camera is apparently already out there.
> ...


Your point is valid, but my wife would argue that my XT still "works" for me. And, I won't sweat a hundred or two in price drops if the new camera delivers improvements over the older model. Nice to have the dilemma, tho, isn't it? 8)


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## friedmud (Apr 6, 2012)

I was in a similar situation... with a good investment in EFs lenses to boot (17-55 f/2.8 for life!). I went with a 7D... and while it wasn't a huge upgrade IQ wise over my XSi... everything else about it _IS_ a huge upgrade.

I shoot mainly outside (landscape) so the weather sealing is killer. The 3 user programmable settings are unbelievably useful... I'll never be able to own another camera without them. The thumbstick and thumbwheel are a HUGE step up over a Rebel (you mean I can move around the menus without taking my gloves off when it's -10 degrees?!?! Sweet!).

And then there is the AF. While I consider myself a "landscape photographer" because that's what I do for "art"... the majority of my shutter releases are actually my wife, my new puppy, and "vacation" photos ;-) The AF in the 7D is unreal. So versatile. I love being able to smack the AF select button and select an AF point / zone on the fly while I'm looking through the viewfinder and even switch AF modes on the fly while looking through the viewfinder by hitting Mf. It's become so natural to me that I do it without even thinking.

Then there is even more:

- Electronic level: killer feature for landscapes
- Have different AF points selected in landscape vs left portrait vs right portrait
- FPS (for that puppy! Look here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5320.0)
- Instantaneous exposure bracketing with a delay and mirror lockup (put the 7D in live view mode with bracketing on and 2 second delay and you press the shutter release (or hit your remote), the camera waits two seconds then silently fires off 3 exposures... perfect for lanscape work).
- And more...

My point here though is not to try to tempt you into buying a 7D... it's that you should look at the _other_ things a camera does beyond MEGA-Pixels and ISO noise... and really think about how a different machine could help you capture better photos... or get out of the way so you can let your creativity go.

If you're looking for a "step up" from a Rebel... and all you do is go to a new Rebel I think you'll be disappointed. All you're going to do is compare the shots you take at the pixel level to your old camera and you'll come away thinking that you should have sunk that $700 into another lens instead...

Instead... think about upgrading the _features_ of your camera. The workflow impacts will make you happier than you think....


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## deeb (Apr 6, 2012)

Just wait 2 more weeks. (At least that's what I'm doing before I decide on either a T3i or GH2.) They'll be having some *big announcements April 16*: 

http://canontweets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/evo2.jpeg (source: http://canontweets.com/2012/03/canon-invite-april-16-2012/)

They'll probably be focusing on a 4k cinema cam or some other ultra-high-end thing, but I would not doubt that this is the time frame when they'd be rolling out a whole set of goodies, including a possible T4i.

I'm cheap, so I may not even be able to afford the T4i, but at least the t3i price should drop more by end of month.


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## Jordana (Apr 6, 2012)

I've heard that there will be some announcements on the 16th.
I have been waiting for the announcement as well, I am so curious. It is so frustrating waiting. I was originally told that it would be released in February, then March an now it's April. 

From what I've heard, there will be minor upgrades. Most that don't have anything to do with the quality of pictures (such as wifi capabilities and touch screen). I have decided to wait, even though I am very impatient. I figured that if I wait and I like the T4i, then I will thank myself. If I wait and find out I hate it, I still win because the T3i will become cheaper.

I hope you sort everything out. Good luck


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## Terry Rogers (Apr 6, 2012)

Your point is valid, but my wife would argue that my XT still "works" for me. And, I won't sweat a hundred or two in price drops if the new camera delivers improvements over the older model. Nice to have the dilemma, tho, isn't it? 8)
[/quote]

LOL, I know what you mean. But from my view her arguement would be invalid. The XT has no video (great selling point to the wife... "just think of the high quality video we could get of our kids!". The XT has relatively poor iso performance compared to todays batch of entry dslr's... "just think, I could photograph our kids in the school play, or playing sports". I'm sure you could come up with other tidbits to pepper the upgrade debate with. 

Good luck.


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## elflord (Apr 7, 2012)

wellfedCanuck said:


> It's income tax refund time. If the 5D3 had come in $1K cheaper, I could have stretched for it, but with other places for a busy family to put its money- it ain't gonna happen this time around. So, to replace my Rebel XT I've decided to just get another Rebel for now.
> 
> Sure, I could buy a 60D, 7D or even a 5D2, but they're not the cameras I want, and- (let's be realistic) as a hobbyist with other interests- I can make do with a 650D. Maybe next year I can spin the Rebel down to one of my kids and get the camera I_ really _ want
> 
> ...



What's the body you want and why ? 

Improvements to bodies, especially frequently updated consumer lines are very incremental -- so unless there is some feature that you want in the newer camera, I wouldn't hold out for it. In the case of the upgrade from XT to a T3i, you get video a better screen, a slightly faster burst rate, and probably a newer AF system. Sensor performance isn't radically different. That's from a very old body to a very new body. I doubt the jump from that to the newest rebel is anywhere near as great. 

On the other hand if you want a more substantial upgrade, look into an older full frame body. These are a huge step up in sensor performance from any APS-C.


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## briansquibb (Apr 7, 2012)

My wife was a bit anti when I upgraded at the beginning - but now she is seeing the pictures being published she is very supportive indeed and now is already asking why I didn't get a 5DIII ....

The fact that I have bought and sold some L lens at a profit as I upgraded convinced her that investing in the 400 f/2.8 and the 600 f/4

I mostly buy used so if I dont like some kit I dont lose money - the other benefit is that I dont have the latest and greatest to try to sort out (look at the grief the 5DIII people are having with lack of driver support).

I have a simple approach to kit - buy wisely, buy cheap, buy quality


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## wellfedCanuck (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks for the info and comments, folks. There were a couple posts that asked questions to which I should reply individually, but sorry, it's late... Camera I want? 5D3. Why? Because. Camera I'm going to buy this time around? T4i. It's enough for my current skill level, it'll be a nice little step up from my XT and I've got other fish to fry this summer. I can revisit things again next year, and with 3 kids either in or entering their teens- the Rebel wouldn't go to waste. 

Regarding the wait- what the heck, it's only a couple weeks. I've made the mistake of buying tech near the end of product cycles before, and no matter what the improvement- I've regretted it. If I did decide that the T3i still met my needs- at least it would be an informed decision and I'd capture any potential price decrease.

Now where's that Japanese safari guy...


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## dichiaras (Apr 8, 2012)

wellfedCanuck said:


> Now where's that Japanese safari guy...



I've been looking for that guy for the past two months, but he only showed up once with the wrong piece of equipment.

In 8 days there should be a "major announcement", and still no rumors... I might guess we'll have to wait until the fall for a new rebel. In any case I'll skip this cycle, if as it seems there will be only minor improvements like touch-screen and digic V: I want better IQ=a new sensor. It's amazing how slow in technological advance Canon is: my MacBook Pro is 2 and 1/2 years old, and the new models are 3 times faster; a rebel T2i is 2 years old, and the T4i will (likely) have 0 times better IQ.


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## wellfedCanuck (Apr 8, 2012)

I hear you! I would wonder if we're just spoiled by the pace of Apple and the PC industry but I just replaced my stereo equipment paying pretty much the same actual $ numbers for new, high-end stuff that I paid for the old components in 1984. 

Last fall when the karma system was still active I made the mistake of pointing out that the functionality of my iphone (not its optics) made today's DSLRs appear stodgy in comparison. That was good for a couple dozen smites. Somebody (or several somebodies) here on the site get downright defensive about Canon's policies and the glacial pace of technological progress. 

Really, considering the thousands of dollars people are investing in Canon systems- they should be demanding so much more. 30% price increases for marginal technical improvements?! This is an industry ripe for nimble new competitiors.


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## !Xabbu (Apr 8, 2012)

wellfedCanuck said:


> Thanks for the info and comments, folks. There were a couple posts that asked questions to which I should reply individually, but sorry, it's late... Camera I want? 5D3. Why? Because. Camera I'm going to buy this time around? T4i. It's enough for my current skill level, it'll be a nice little step up from my XT and I've got other fish to fry this summer. I can revisit things again next year, and with 3 kids either in or entering their teens- the Rebel wouldn't go to waste.
> 
> Regarding the wait- what the heck, it's only a couple weeks. I've made the mistake of buying tech near the end of product cycles before, and no matter what the improvement- I've regretted it. If I did decide that the T3i still met my needs- at least it would be an informed decision and I'd capture any potential price decrease.
> 
> Now where's that Japanese safari guy...



Hi Canuck,

From all the posts I read and my own "wisdom" I consider it rather unlikely that a big change will happen with the T4i before either the 60D or 7D see a big upgrade. If it would get a considerably improved sensor, it would make selling the 60D or 7D really hard.

I'm currently facing a similar decision as you are and I'm split between 60D and 7D. I really want an improved AF over my 450D and I want the improved ergonomics, which will prepare myself for the next upgrade, when I might decide to go FF.

Just my 2 cents...


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## D_Rochat (Apr 8, 2012)

It's hard to tell where the T4i will go at this point, but I don't expect huge changes yet. Each Rebel upgrade has been very insignificant IMO and it normally takes a few models before an upgrade is worth it. Wait and see what rumors surface, but unless the T4i upgrades the Rebel's terrible AF, I'd just go with a T3i.


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## gtog (Apr 8, 2012)

I would think it unlikely that there would not be a T4i(?)/650D before the holiday shopping season this year. I would also think with all Canon's focus on higher-end cameras (5D3, 1DX, and cinema) so far this year, they won't neglect the lower-end all year but could easily bump an xxxD to September. While most of the xxxD have been February/March/April cameras, the Rebel/300D and XTi/400D were September cameras.

I also don't know what Canon might accomplish regarding improvements to the APS-C sensors this cycle (having been focused on FF and cinema sensors), but they have not been afraid in the past to have an xxxD sensor exceed their xxD sensor. I refer to the XTi/400D in September 2006 having 10.1 Mp while the 30D had 8.2 Mp and then again in March 2008 the XSi/450D having 12.2 Mp while the 40D had 10.1 Mp.

It would seen possible a new xxxD might have a Digic V and more in-camera processing features without a major change in sensor, in which case I would expect a significant sensor upgrade in either a 70D or 7D2 late this year or early next after the new xxxD. Once a 70D/7D2 is announced with an improved sensor, then I would expect any subsequent xxxD to have an improved sensor also. The further we get into the year for an APS-C camera announcement, the more likely it will involve an improved sensor.

However, April is not over yet and we may still get a camera announcement -- and don't forget the glass!

G


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## mclaren777 (Apr 9, 2012)

Bamyo13 said:


>



I'm positive it's fake.


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## Bamyo13 (Apr 9, 2012)

mclaren777 said:


> Bamyo13 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Thanks for checking.


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## ThuiQuaDayNe (Apr 10, 2012)

Jordana said:


> I've heard that there will be some announcements on the 16th.
> I have been waiting for the announcement as well, I am so curious. It is so frustrating waiting. I was originally told that it would be released in February, then March an now it's April.
> 
> From what I've heard, there will be minor upgrades. Most that don't have anything to do with the quality of pictures (such as wifi capabilities and touch screen). I have decided to wait, even though I am very impatient. I figured that if I wait and I like the T4i, then I will thank myself. If I wait and find out I hate it, I still win because the T3i will become cheaper.
> ...



Interestingly, the Nikon D3200 will be announced during this timeline as well. Hopefully we will get better news in two weeks.


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## unadog (Apr 10, 2012)

Wait. It is coming soon.

Canondirect has been blowing out their stock of Canon T3i refurbs, which is usually a pretty good sign of a new camera coming out.

I bought a refurb T3i with 18-55 kit lens for $617 shipped, with tax, a few weeks back. It had 179 shots on it. 

But I needed a video capable body for a shoot on April 21. I had both the 5D3 and D800E on pre-order, but decided to wait a while on one of those.

I will probably buy a T4i for the likely improvements to video capture as much as anything else. I have always done well buying a Canon body when it first comes out, then selling in 2 years. True cost of ownership is Purchase Price - Sale Price. 

On this type of camera it is about $100 per year. Not worth waiting to save maybe $50 in half a year. I just spent $250 on gas and meals to go up to the cottage for a week!

Cheers! Good luck!

Michael


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## wellfedCanuck (Apr 20, 2012)

Arghhh!!!!!!!!!!!

D3200! ! My Nikon friends are giving me the gears!
Ye gods! Send us a sign!!  Somebody photoshop something... make up a rumour... please...


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## Terry Rogers (Apr 20, 2012)

wellfedCanuck said:


> Arghhh!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> D3200! ! My Nikon friends are giving me the gears!
> Ye gods! Send us a sign!!  Somebody photoshop something... make up a rumour... please...



Tell them they can keep their 24 mp abomination. You would need to put some seriously expensive glass in front of a 24mp DX sensor to resolve that kind of detail. And if you can affort that kind of glass you would be buying the d800. Unfortunately, Nikon is likely taking their marketing cues from Canon and packing the highest megapixel count into the camera to cater to inexperienced consumers. Hopefully canon doesn't follow suit in the t4i. The only place in the canon lineup I could see a 24mp aps-c sensor would be a 7d mk II with f8 autofocus ability to cater to wildlife and bird photographers who need to most reach possible using $3000+ glass. Anything less than that and you would end up with finely detailed mush. Am I out to lunch with this assessment?


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## AJ (Apr 20, 2012)

Who cares about megapixels. Any DSLR sold today has more than you need. Who cares how many megapixels the T4i is going to have. FWIW, one could outresolve a 24 mpix sensor with a 50/1.8

The key thing that sets the D3200 apart from Canon is the continuous video autofocus. I wonder if Canon can get this to work in time for the T4i.


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## ctmike (Apr 20, 2012)

Fact is, camera specs the likes of the D3200 even a year or two ago at the $699 price point would be considered insane. Like it or not, there is a LOT of value in it. I hope Canon at least matches the value, preferably, exceeds it.


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## wellfedCanuck (Oct 27, 2012)

So, here I am half way between boating season and ski season with a spare $K in my pocket. (That, in itself is an accomplishment for a 50 year old man with a large, busy family and too many hobbies.) I could finally upgrade my XT to a T4i, but the camera I really want is the 6D. (Okay, 5D3, but that ain't gonna happen.) 

I _could_ consider a 5D2 instead, but if the AF is anything like my friend's 60D in low light- it would be a disappointment for much of the photography that I do. (Although the majority of my images are typical family-oriented events in poorly-lit schools and arenas, what I really enjoy is landscape and aerial photography.) I didn't like the 60D and might consider the 7D but don't like the idea of buying a 3 year old camera that's due for a refresh and is not yet experiencing significant discounts.

But let's face it- realistically- I'm a wannabe, a hack- the sort of photographer you guys mock at public events. Taking a proper course has been on my list forever- am I going to appreciate or utilize the benefits that a FF camera would provide to me? Considering the 6D release date and waiting for a reasonable price-drop, is it worth the wait?

The money's burning a hole, talk me down off the ledge, guys...


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## birtembuk (Oct 27, 2012)

wellfedCanuck said:


> So, here I am half way between boating season and ski season with a spare $K in my pocket. (That, in itself is an accomplishment for a 50 year old man with a large, busy family and too many hobbies.) I could finally upgrade my XT to a T4i, but the camera I really want is the 6D. (Okay, 5D3, but that ain't gonna happen.)
> 
> I _could_ consider a 5D2 instead, but if the AF is anything like my friend's 60D in low light- it would be a disappointment for much of the photography that I do. (Although the majority of my images are typical family-oriented events in poorly-lit schools and arenas, what I really enjoy is landscape and aerial photography.) I didn't like the 60D and might consider the 7D but don't like the idea of buying a 3 year old camera that's due for a refresh and is not yet experiencing significant discounts.
> 
> ...



Well, to some experts here, buying a 60D will make you a dummy and buying a 6D will make you a sucker. Nice aren't they? Don't listen to them though, they're not the payers. I'd agree with you to forget about these older models. As for the 6D, according to whatever has been released and going by what the 5D3 can do in low light, it could well be the one that suits your photo style. I'd wait for the reviews and particularly re the focusing ability of these 11 points. The Nikon D600 has more but crammed in the bull's eye. So, let's wait a bit. What's sure is that you're gonna see a lot of difference with APS-C. Don't forget the lenses though. It might burn a hole in the other pocket.


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## crasher8 (Oct 27, 2012)

Come on, if you're going to be a hack go big! Used 1D mk2. 1200-1400.00 You'll be The Camera Guy!
But seriously, what you want isn't out yet. Be patient, work on your skill set and consider your glass needs a bit more both artistically and scientifically. If you're going FF make wiser, long term decisions.


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## miah (Oct 27, 2012)

I stepped from the XT to the XTi to the T1i and now have the T3i. I can say with confidence that my T3i is 10x the camera that my XT was. More MP, better IQ, better ISO performance (though not 5D3 level, for sure), bigger/better LCD, more ergonomic, and better menu system. I mean, it's a whole new camera and well worth the upgrade!

The best thing is that it's still light and compact. I've carried it all over the world (camping) and have never had an issue with its lack of weather sealing or build-quality. The Rebel series is much maligned by purists in search of the ultimate IQ (don't we all fit into that category on some level?), but they fail to appreciate its advantages: size matters.


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## crasher8 (Oct 27, 2012)

miah said:


> I stepped from the XT to the XTi to the T1i and now have the T3i. I can say with confidence that my T3i is 10x the camera that my XT was. More MP, better IQ, better ISO performance (though not 5D3 level, for sure), bigger/better LCD, more ergonomic, and better menu system. I mean, it's a whole new camera and well worth the upgrade!
> 
> The best thing is that it's still light and compact. I've carried it all over the world (camping) and have never had an issue with its lack of weather sealing or build-quality. The Rebel series is much maligned by purists in search of the ultimate IQ (don't we all fit into that category on some level?), but they fail to appreciate its advantages: size matters.



I have larger hands AND arthritis. I had a hell of a time with the T2i and even to some extent the 7D. The 5D3 is perfect for ergonomics. Now I'm looking into getting a 1v to replace my Elan 7 for the same reasons.


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## Ryan_W (Oct 27, 2012)

wellfedCanuck said:


> But let's face it- realistically- I'm a wannabe, a hack- the sort of photographer you guys mock at public events. Taking a proper course has been on my list forever- am I going to appreciate or utilize the benefits that a FF camera would provide to me? Considering the 6D release date and waiting for a reasonable price-drop, is it worth the wait?



Don't sweat it man. The real photographers at those events are nice guys, they'll talk to you and give you their card if they have one. It's the other amateurs you need to watch out for - they're the ones eyeballing your lens for the red stripe.

I think given the proximity to the 6D's intended release and the complete unknown it adds into the equation, plus the fact that're going to be using it outdoors a lot and might make use of the GPS, you should wait for the 6D before you make any decisions. It's tempting to just buy in right now, but nothing is worse than jumping into last year's tech right on the upgrade cycle and feeling remorseful right away.


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## wellfedCanuck (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks for the opinions. Money still safely in pocket.


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