# Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG Art Coming to Photokina [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 27, 2016)

```
<p>We’re told that Sigma will be introducing the 85mm f/1.4 DG Art series lens for Photokina in September of this year. Availability may not be right away, but should ship before the end of 2016.</p>
<p>Specifications of the lens are unknown at this time, but the lens is currently being tested by select photographers.</p>
<p>The Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG HSM has been <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/has-the-sigma-85mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-production-come-to-an-end/">unofficially discontinued</a>.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Jopa (May 27, 2016)

Must have the precioussss


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## ahsanford (May 27, 2016)

Jopa said:


> Must have the precioussss



Nicely done.


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## ahsanford (May 27, 2016)

CR3 means it's fresh. Nice. 

- A


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## Maui5150 (May 27, 2016)

About freaking time, especially if under $1K

As much as I love the Canon Baseball, I would be happy with 1.4, decent AF and beautiful BOKEH


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## slclick (May 27, 2016)

I knew I was waiting for something


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## Talley (May 27, 2016)

Hi. I just wanted to post on the first page so I feel somewhat special next to this special lens announcement.

Thanks


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## pwp (May 27, 2016)

This will be welcome, though hardly unexpected news right across the planet. Even the outgoing 85 f/1.4 was a very decent thing especially for the price, expectations for the 85 ART are high. We'll just have to wait for Dustin to put it through its paces!

-pw


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## chmteacher (May 27, 2016)

_insert obligatory comment how the autofocus won't be as good as first party_

There, it's been said. No need for repetition.


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## ahsanford (May 27, 2016)

chmteacher said:


> _insert obligatory comment how the autofocus won't be as good as first party_
> 
> There, it's been said. No need for repetition.



On that topic -- in general, not just for Sigma -- I want to see hit rate studies! Put a camera on a tripod, have a clear as day target, randomly spin the focus ring and shoot at f/1.4. 

LensTip does it and most lenses test as 'fine', great, etc. but we don't get numbers. Bryan Carnathan has dabbled at it but also does not report numbers. CR's reviewer Dustin Abbott started reporting hit rate numbers with the various 35 f/1.4 options, and I'd love to see more.

- A


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## mclaren777 (May 27, 2016)

Hopefully this prompts Canon to announce an 85mm f/1.4 with BR optics at Photokina as well.

As tempting as this new Sigma might be (I own their current 85mm), I will gladly hold out for such a Canon lens.


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## FECHariot (May 27, 2016)

I was just about to bite on the Tamron 85 VC to upgrade my EF 85/1.8. I think I'll keep using the Canon and wait for this to pan out more.


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## Sabaki (May 27, 2016)

I hope Sigma hits this clear out the park, especially AF.

It'll give us a chance to understand what's possible in a Canon option as well.


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## 9VIII (May 27, 2016)

It's actually going to be really tempting to get the 85A instead of the 50-100A for a portrait lens on crop.

The 50-100A has way more distortion than an 85mm prime, and less DOF, less light gathering, and the 50-100A is weakest at 100mm. If the 85A is stellar in the center wide open then it's going to be the better portrait lens for crop shooters.
Part of what makes the 18-35A so incredibly special is it offers very nearly the best IQ (on Crop) that you can get in that focal range regardless of whether you're talking Prime or Zoom, but fast wide Primes always have some glaring weaknesses. Not so much with longer lenses, the 50-100A has much stiffer competition.
The 85A is certainly much, much less versatile than the 50-100A, but if you can be somewhat certain of what you want to do with it then you might be better off chosing the worlds best 85mm Prime over the worlds best telephoto Zoom lens.


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## Bennymiata (May 27, 2016)

I'll be very interested to see how it compares to the Tamron.
I want a good 85mm mainly for event photography, and I looked at the Canon f1.2 but found the af to be too slow for me.

I'll wait for the Sigma and then try them both and make up my mind.


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## PeterAlex7 (May 27, 2016)

Hope this will give canon more pressure to replace the 85L II.


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## photojoern.de (May 27, 2016)

To make it being considerable, it will need Image Stabilization. And should be crisp sharp at f 1.4. Otherwise it will have an extremely hard time, given the great lenses from Canon. Of course, a spot-on Autofocus is essential for a 1.4 mild tele lens.


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## Maximilian (May 27, 2016)

Oh, yeah! I'm already impatiently awaiting the reviews. 

Although f1.8 is quite enough for me, f1.4 is tempting. 
But I also like the form factor of the EF85/1.8. 

As I stated before, I hope that Canon now feels forced to do something on this FL as well...


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## Maiaibing (May 27, 2016)

Bennymiata said:


> looked at the Canon f1.2 but found the af to be too slow for me.



This. Lets have a fast focussing 85mm. I am sure we will get an optically better lens with less CA etc. etc. Fast focus would really set it apart while we wait for the 85LIII.


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## MintChocs (May 27, 2016)

It's probably safe to predict that optically this lens will be good but most primes are, the question is whether it can auto focus accurately at F1.4. Until this is tested I'm going to wait and see. I'm not into micro adjusting and all that malarkey, I just want to put it on and shoot.


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## arcer (May 27, 2016)

Sweet that Sigma is finally gonna release a 85mm ART.

Here are just my PERSONAL opinion:

1) I think that you will be getting good AF similar to what you get with the 50mm, but accuracy and hit rate will not be enough for those using it for fast action. So if you are too lazy to use the Dock, maybe you need to be more forgiving or skip this lens at all. I concur with others that a new 85mm from Sigma will push Canon to release something. At least a new 85mm f/1.8.

2) I think that all ART lens from Sigma are targeting Studio, Landscape, and creative shots. So I think a 85mm ART will lack certain degree of moisture resistance and NO OS. I think Sigma is leaving these features for a SPORT version, which means the refresh of 24-70mm and 70-200mm will more likely to be SPORTS than be ART, to have the OS and the seals.

You are free to disagree with me but I'll hold my ground until this lens is released.


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## vscd (May 27, 2016)

Hmm, can't understand the hype for the Sigma 85mm Art too much. The Canon 85L is a wonderful lens, near perfection. Most usable potraits are taken around f2.2-f4 and in this range even the mild CAs are gone. The sharpness matches the OTUS in this range. Anything else like f1.2 is not possible with the 85mm Art anyway. 

The only thing which could be improved is the AF of the 85L, but this is portrait lens, not a fast sportslens for travelling along. Moving the huge glass elements takes time and f1.2 is 0.45EV more light than f1.4.

I hope the Sigma 85Art will be a good performer but in history the bokeh often got destroyed with the complexity of the formular. Expect at least 12 Element in 8 Groups


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## chrysoberyl (May 27, 2016)

Tempting...tempting. I had the previous edition and sold it because of the severe AF problem. But it was sharp! If this one turns out to have decent AF and Sigma does something to improve their wretched customer service...


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## CanonGuy (May 27, 2016)

Never pre ordered any lens in my life. But after having killer 35 and 50 Art, I think 85 art will be my first lens to pre order. Beyond excited! I replaced 50L with 50 Art and couldn't be happier. Contrast and sharpness wise, 50 art is a generation ahead of 50L. Hoping the same for 85 Art.


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## slclick (May 27, 2016)

Many think the 85 1.4 is the original ART lens but without the fancy wrapping paper. It's also high on Sigma's top sellers list. Maybe that's why it's taken longer to get this one out in new clothes. All I know is it would fill a hole in my FL lineup.


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## Maiaibing (May 27, 2016)

Did you ever shoot the 85L?



vscd said:


> The Canon 85L is a wonderful lens, near perfection.



Several mechanical/electrical things could improve making it less prone to damage/failure. And - regardless of Canon marketing claims - it is sloooowww.



vscd said:


> Most usable potraits are taken around f2.2-f4 and in this range even the mild CAs are gone.



So you can see the difference between a shot taken with the 85L and the 85 f/1.4 if both were shot @f/4? That's new to me. You get the 85LII to shoot wide or nearly wide open or its a lot of money to be paying for something that will not show in your shots... I even doubt one could eyeball the difference between pictures taken with the 85L @f/4 and the 70-200 f/4 IS L (except the bokeh will be better with the zoom). Would be an interesting test.



vscd said:


> Anything else like f1.2 is not possible with the 85mm Art anyway.



It's not. But - except for the ability to shoot in darker space - many out there will probably trade better optics wide open @ f/1.4 compared to the 85LII and its (slight) f-stop advantage. YMMV.



vscd said:


> I hope the Sigma 85Art will be a good performer but in history the bokeh often got destroyed with the complexity of the formular. Expect at least 12 Element in 8 Groups



Time will tell. I'm hopeful for the wide open bokeh. Will be a key aspect of such a lens.


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## Luds34 (May 27, 2016)

MintChocs said:


> It's probably safe to predict that optically this lens will be good but most primes are, the question is whether it can auto focus accurately at F1.4. Until this is tested I'm going to wait and see. I'm not into micro adjusting and all that malarkey, I just want to put it on and shoot.



+1 (other then the micro adjusting as that is just part of any lens)

I'm sure the optics will be great. For a while I even wondered if they would just put new the new Art skins on their current 85mm, but being it has taken this long the optical design must have been refreshed as well. I'm a big fan of my 35mm Art but even there I do accept that it seems to lock focus just a tad slower then my Canon primes. I'll be keeping my eye on this lens.


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## Chaitanya (May 27, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> chmteacher said:
> 
> 
> > _insert obligatory comment how the autofocus won't be as good as first party_
> ...



Actually lenstip has been quoting percentage of missed shots along with total focus time for each lens now a days. You should take a look at their recent reviews. I dont find it perticularly useful as thoses tests are done in studio conditions with controlled lighting.


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## Refurb7 (May 27, 2016)

vscd said:


> Hmm, can't understand the hype for the Sigma 85mm Art too much.



The hype is based on Art lenses offering excellent value: high quality for a medium price. And that's better than hype. The Canon 85L offers high quality for a high price, which is fine for those with more money. An 85 Art will likely be a great performer at a much lower price, maybe $1,000 or so.


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## ExodistPhotography (May 27, 2016)

Just hope its tack sharp at f/1.4.. At least in the center FFS.. My EF 85mm f/1.8 is starting to show its age, but still very usable from f/2.8 to f/9. Tamrons new lens is temping, but Tamron has left bad taste in my mouth to many times. Rather wait for the Sigma..


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## ExodistPhotography (May 27, 2016)

MintChocs said:


> It's probably safe to predict that optically this lens will be good but most primes are, the question is whether it can auto focus accurately at F1.4. Until this is tested I'm going to wait and see. I'm not into micro adjusting and all that malarkey, I just want to put it on and shoot.



So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/


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## ExodistPhotography (May 27, 2016)

Refurb7 said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, can't understand the hype for the Sigma 85mm Art too much.
> ...



Agreed...

If they offer this lens for about the same price as the 50mm Art, even if its a $100 USD more.. It will still sell like hot cakes IMHO..


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## ahsanford (May 27, 2016)

ExodistPhotography said:


> So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/



Yes, but Sigma has a history of inconsistently focusing lenses that you _can't _solve with AFMA / their USB dock.

I always use the TDP example to show this with the 50 Art:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-50mm-f-1.4-DG-HSM-Art-Lens.aspx
(pan halfway down until you see the butterfly -- read and mouseover the digits)

And CR's reviewer Dustin Abbott presented a basic head to head hit rate effort while shooting both the 35L II and the 35 Art wide open, and the results were telling:
http://dustinabbott.net/2016/01/sigma-35mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art-review/
(1/3 of the way down with the school pictures: 92% for the 35L II and 64% for the Sigma)

And it wasn't like the Servo AF incorrectly selected the AF points. Again, from Dustin's review:

_"Reviewing the data in Lightroom via a plugin called “Show Focus Points” tells me that I was using AF Servo focus and that focus was locked with the center point square in the middle boy’s face…and yet the lens is actually focused on the far wall. By contrast the Canon 35L II shots in the same situation were all accurately focused."_

I don't say this to smear/troll/mock/doubt Sigma -- I say this to _spur them on to fix their designs_ and fulfill the promise of their fine optics.

- A


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## FramerMCB (May 27, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> I was just about to bite on the Tamron 85 VC to upgrade my EF 85/1.8. I think I'll keep using the Canon and wait for this to pan out more.



Keep in mind, the Sigma Art 85mm won't have OS. And the new Tamron does have it (VC). May not be a big deal for your shooting needs with this focal length. The Tamron is most certainly cheaper than what the Sigma will be introduced at. And has some weather sealing...

Choices, choices...decisions, decisions. It's a great time to be a photographer is it not?


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## Alex_M (May 27, 2016)

My understanding is that Sigma was aware that 85mm Art prime was single most requested product. Company CEO admitted that openly. 
Older 85mm product was already very good and re-housing into Art style case and adding USB dock ready firmware would be an easy entry into the market, but... The AF focus inconsistency is a sure way to spoil a successful product and turn frustrated customers away... Therefore, it appears that Sigma decided to get the AF right and only then release the product. 24-35A was already better focusing lens and it appears that 50-100A is much, much better in that regard.
So.. There is a hope that upcoming 85A, 24-70A and 70-200S Sigma lenses will auto focus nicely. 
Disclaimer: I owned 18-35A, 24A, 35A, 50A and 120-300S lenses and loved them optically but sold all of them due to AF inconsistency / unique shots I have missed. I will re-purchase all of them back if/when Sigma released AF fixed firmware for affected lenses.


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## slclick (May 27, 2016)

Alex_M said:


> My understanding is that Sigma was aware that 85mm Art prime was single most requested product. Company CEO admitted that openly.
> Older 85mm product was already very good and re-housing into Art style case and adding USB dock ready firmware would be an easy entry into the market, but... The AF focus inconsistency is a sure way to spoil a successful product and turn frustrated customers away... Therefore, it appears that Sigma decided to get the AF right and only then release the product. 24-35A was already better focusing lens and it appears that 50-100A is much, much better in that regard.
> So.. There is a hope that upcoming 85A, 24-70A and 70-200A Sigma lenses will auto focus nicely.
> Disclaimer: I owned 18-35A, 24A, 35A, 50A and 120-300S lenses and loved them optically but sold all of them due to AF inconsistency / unique shots I have missed. I will re-purchase all of them back if/when Sigma released AF fixed firmware for affected lenses.



+! and I have to add, my copy of the 24-35 nails focus each time.


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## FramerMCB (May 27, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ExodistPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/
> ...



If the optics are stellar, I guess one could treat it like a Zeiss and just keep the autofocus turned off and use it as a manual focus only lens. Which would be fine for static portraits, studio work, and landscape. And macro if one combines it with an extension tube or two. Not necessarily a bad way to go...just sad when it does have autofocus.


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## FramerMCB (May 27, 2016)

PeterAlex7 said:


> Hope this will give canon more pressure to replace the 85L II.



I'm quite sure Canon is, and already has been, working on a new version that will include their new "blue goo" that they used in the 35mm 1.4L II. Be ready to pay around $1899 - $2199 for it however. I would be surprised if would be less than $1899.


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## ahsanford (May 27, 2016)

For Canon EF users who want an 85mm lens with AF, we now have a lovely 4 price point market:

Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM @ $349

Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC @ $749

Sigma 85mm f/1.4 @ $869 --> Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art @ $999 (guessing)

Canon 85mm f/1.2L II @ $1899

Which basically pits the Tamron's IS and weather-sealing vs. the Sigma's IQ. Though this is (generally) a FL for portraiture, we tend to drool over sharpness and Sigma's recent track record on that front will likely have most folks more excited about the Sigma than the Tamron.

- A


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## GuyF (May 27, 2016)

If they can improve focus consistancy and reduce the fringing when wide open, I'll trade in my current 85mm f1.4 the second the Art hits the shops.

Come on Sigma, get the focusing issues sorted! (They do read this forum, don't they?)


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## ExodistPhotography (May 27, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ExodistPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/
> ...




Well thats not what he was posting about. His statement is that he didnt want to worry with Micro Adjusting lenses. Which is an issues with no matter what brand you use. Canon, Nikon, Sigma, Tamron, etc.. His statement and mine was not if the 85mm would focus correctly each time.. Heck my 50mm STM needs micro adjusting right now.. Just saying..

That said, I do agree that we need a lens that is accurate each time without having to default to Live View to get accurate focusing.

On a side note, I personally would not put to much stock into Dustins reviews. They are flawed by design. In that I mean he test one copy, not a dozen copies and then makes a average of their performance. So he can get a bad copy of one lens, or he can get a fantastic copy thats better then most that hit the shelf. Of course this is a complaint I have with a lot of lens reviewers including DXO's half baked results. So, take it all with a grain of salt. But if everyone says the same thing that its inconsistent, then yea run from it.. LOL :-D


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## CanonGuy (May 27, 2016)

vscd said:


> Hmm,* can't understand the hype for the Sigma 85mm Art too much*. The Canon 85L is a wonderful lens, near perfection. Most usable potraits are taken around f2.2-f4 and in this range even the mild CAs are gone. The sharpness matches the OTUS in this range. Anything else like f1.2 is not possible with the 85mm Art anyway.
> 
> The only thing which could be improved is the AF of the 85L, but this is portrait lens, not a fast sportslens for travelling along. Moving the huge glass elements takes time and f1.2 is 0.45EV more light than f1.4.
> 
> I hope the Sigma 85Art will be a good performer but* in history the bokeh often got destroyed* with the complexity of the formular. Expect at least 12 Element in 8 Groups



1. You don't understand the hype prolly because you never owned and used an Art lens haha. 
2. Again, you are saying that the bokeh often gets destroyed because you prolly never owned an art lens lol.

I own 35 and 50 art which replaced my 35L i and 50L. The art lenses are WAY ahead of the L glasses in terms of sharpness and contrast (I don't care about weather sealing). And the price is sooooo resonable. The hype for 85art is COMPLETELY justified and expected. So excited for this lens and to see what Sigma brings in future. Kudos to Sigma.


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## CanonGuy (May 27, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ExodistPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/
> ...



Instead, please go to Canon and tell them not to make it harder for 3rd parties like Sigma to manufacture lenses with spot on AF. Sony is already letting Sigma use their af technology. I hope Canon gets out of their crappy monopoly attitude and do the same.

And I should also mention, I have 35 and 50 art and both nail focus EVERY SINGLE TIME. Just try the art before purchase, that's it. Hope that's not too hard lol


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## vscd (May 27, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> Did you ever shoot the 85L?



Can you read signatures? 



Maiaibing said:


> So you can see the difference between a shot taken with the 85L and the 85 f/1.4 if both were shot @f/4?



You totally understood it wrong. It was all about CAs. But same question to you... can you see the difference between a shot taken with the already existing Tamron and a 85mm f1.4 Art? I don't think so. And the Tammy has even Vibration control. By the way, the difference between f1.2 and f1.4 is more than f1.4 to 1.8...



Maiaibing said:


> But - except for the ability to shoot in darker space - many out there will probably trade better optics wide open @ f/1.4 compared to the 85LII and its (slight) f-stop advantage. YMMV.



This has to be prooven. If you stop down a 85L to 1.4 it could be better than a wide open Sigma Art. Don't be angry about the 85L if you can't afford it. I really like the Sigma Art Line, I just think there are quite a few capable 85mm lenses out there.


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## abbaen (May 27, 2016)

I have the Sigma 35mm ART and while I have heard stories of focus being iffy, I didn't need to switch copies. I would actually say it's comparable with Canon's USM speed. I had the Canon 28mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8 and while it was slightly slower than the 85, it feels just about as fast as the 28mm 1.8. The only times that I wish it was faster was while shooting some really fast hip-hop dance shows, but I think any lens would struggle with the low light and fast movement. 

Especially for portraiture, and photo-documentary style wedding/engagement photography, I can't complain at all. Any focus issues are attributed to my user error, not the lens' focusing speed. 

That being said, I'm really excited for the Sigma 85 ART to finally come out and I'll definitely be buying it. I also have the sigma dock that I got for like $50. I'm confident if there are any issues with focus that Sigma will release a patch to the firmware like they have done in the past in other situations.


Also comparing it to Canon's 85 1.2, personally even though I focus on portraiture, I don't think 1.2 -> 1.4 makes much difference. The average person doesn't even notice a huge difference between 2.0 -> 1.4 honestly...The 85 1.2's ability to render things beautifully is more than the aperture and has to do with other optical characteristics.


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## ahsanford (May 27, 2016)

CanonGuy said:


> And I should also mention, I have 35 and 50 art and both nail focus EVERY SINGLE TIME. Just try the art before purchase, that's it. Hope that's not too hard lol



I did, thank you very much. And it laid an egg on my 5D3. 

Even after tuning with the USB dock, my 35 Art copy had an abysmal hit rate at f/1.4. It was not front or back-focused -- _it inconsistently missed_. I had to stop it down to f/2 or so before it performed as consistently my other Canon lenses.

And the problem was not behind the viewfinder.  Though I was shooting handheld, I never focused and then subsequently recomposed. Further, I was shooting static subjects and had auto-ISO set for a min 1/60s shutter -- so it wasn't hand shake or subject movement.

The inevitable refrain "you just got a bad copy" very well may apply here, but _the rate with which those bad copies are falling into the hands of reviewers_ seems troubling. None of my first party Canon has ever demonstrated this phenomenon.

Again -- I'm not knocking Sigma, I'm just saying they still have room to improve.

- A


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## Refurb7 (May 27, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> For Canon EF users who want an 85mm lens with AF, we now have a lovely 4 price point market:
> 
> Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM @ $349
> 
> ...



They are all quite good. It seems that it's hard to build a bad 85mm lens. 

A Sigma 85mm Art is really exciting. However, the Tamron's IQ is excellent too, so it's not a question of IS and weather sealing vs. Sigma's IQ.

Rather, it's a question of individual priorities and individual price points. For my current photography, I value the Tamron's VC over the Sigma's additional 2/3 stop. Otherwise I would have bought the current pre-Art Sigma 85/1.4 because it too is excellent. 

When mounted on an aps-c camera, the Tamron gives me an image-stabilized 135mm field of view with a 1.8 aperture, which is unique outside of some mirrorless options.


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## Maiaibing (May 27, 2016)

vscd said:


> Can you read signatures?



Years since I looked. I was reacting to your post which seemed to deny it.



vscd said:


> You totally understood it wrong. It was all about CAs.



Beats me?? But OK.



vscd said:


> But same question to you... can you see the difference between a shot taken with the already existing Tamron and a 85mm f1.4 Art? I don't think so.



Maybe not - time will tell since we do not have the ART yet. However, some of the Tammy reviews are less than glowing, so I dropped getting it myself.



vscd said:


> This has to be prooven.



Yes. And thus I make no claims. I only point to some issues I think may matter to a lot of potential buyers. We will see if the ART is a great lens or not.



vscd said:


> Don't be angry about the 85L if you can't afford it.



LOL! Attempt at ad hominem attack on the poor! A forum low point I'd say.

Got rid of mine a while back now. Too much overlap with the 135L after I stopped using the 85L for nighttime street shots (one reason I want fast focus speed).

And... don't get angry just because your lenses are not be the best at everything but a mechanical/optical compromise - like all others. Just let it go and enjoy!


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## vscd (May 27, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> LOL! Attempt at ad hominem attack on the poor! A forum low point I'd say.



No attack, just a reaction to your suggestive post. You claimed a lot of thing I didn't even mentioned. But hey, you know what you're doing. Nice that you got rid of your 85L because you wanted faster focus speed , but I guess you got the meaning of the lens wrong... that's not the fault of the optics.

By the way, fun fact, my 35mm f1.4 is the Samyang which is way better in the corners than the Sigma Art. For a third of the price (when it came out).


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (May 27, 2016)

The key concern in this thread is (appropriately) autofocus consistency performance. That's a big deal with a lens like this.

I'm not going to chime in either pro/con Sigma as I want to go into the review of this lens (when it arrives) with as much objectivity as possible.

I just want to share this anecdote: I obviously get a lot of feedback from photographers around the world via my reviews. I get very few complaints from Nikon shooters regarding autofocus accuracy issues on Sigma lenses, but a lot of complaints from Canon shooters. While I get fewer autofocus complaints from Tamron shooters in general, I would say that more of those are from Nikon shooters compared to Canon shooters. As just a general observation I would say that Sigma has got *Nikon's* focus algorithms down better than *Canons*, and the opposite may be true from Tamron.


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## wallstreetoneil (May 27, 2016)

I am a 5DSR / 1DX II wedding photog - pretty much a 24-70 / 70-200 shooter. That said, when I moved to 5DSRs last year (had 2 of them), any non IS lens became an issue - so much so that 2 weeks ago, when I got my 1Dx_II and traded in 1 of the 5DSRs, I finally made the jump after 4 days of testing - traded in my 85L II for the Tamron 45 & 85. Last Saturday, did my first wedding with my new combo - 1DX II with 24-70, then switch to 35L II and the 5DSR with the Tamron 85 1.8 VC - once you dial in the Tamron for MFA, it is wonderful - I shot it at F2 of F2.8. I have been a person that has wanted IS on an 85 for over two years - I don't care how sharp the new Sigma or the new new Canon will be - no IS - I'm not interested. For portraits, when you have that time to slow down and nail it, I want sharp, I want to use the lowest ISO possible and I want as many megapixels on target as possible. I did extensive, extensive testing with the 85L II and the 5DSR - if I wanted a 90% tack sharp hit rate on the 5DSR - I needed 1/640 as a SS - I shot an entire wedding with the Tamron between 1/60 and 1/160 and my hit rate was 90% tack sharp portraits - I lose F1.2 to F1.6 but I can live with that.


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## infared (May 27, 2016)

This should be an exciting lens! I do own 20mm, 35mm and 50mm Art Series lenses and love, love, love them ( after tuning focus on The Dock. ...but I have to say that in spite of the slow focus, CA and its "granade-like" profile...I really think that my Canon 85mm f/1.2 II can, at times, deliver magical photos. The lens, although cantankerous, is truly a wonder and I cannot justify owning two 85mm lenses..and it will take something seriously impressive to rip my grenade out of my clenched fist!


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## infared (May 27, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> The key concern in this thread is (appropriately) autofocus consistency performance. That's a big deal with a lens like this.
> 
> I'm not going to chime in either pro/con Sigma as I want to go into the review of this lens (when it arrives) with as much objectivity as possible.
> 
> I just want to share this anecdote: I obviously get a lot of feedback from photographers around the world via my reviews. I get very few complaints from Nikon shooters regarding autofocus accuracy issues on Sigma lenses, but a lot of complaints from Canon shooters. While I get fewer autofocus complaints from Tamron shooters in general, I would say that more of those are from Nikon shooters compared to Canon shooters. As just a general observation I would say that Sigma has got *Nikon's* focus algorithms down better than *Canons*, and the opposite may be true from Tamron.


Interesting info from your experiences regarding Sigmas on Canons versus Nikons....We will look forward to this new art lens and of course your meticulous review (and some GREAT product photos!).


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## 9VIII (May 27, 2016)

CanonGuy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ExodistPhotography said:
> ...



That actually has me seriously considering getting a Sony product.
If the A5300 turns out nice I might get one just to start building a Sigma SA mount lens library while waiting for Sigma to come out with their new Foveon bodies, and I know that any E mount Sigma lenses will function properly too.


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## mclaren777 (May 28, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Even after tuning with the USB dock, my 35 Art copy had an abysmal hit rate at f/1.4. It was not front or back-focused -- _it inconsistently missed_. I had to stop it down to f/2 or so before it performed as consistently my other Canon lenses.
> 
> The inevitable refrain "you just got a bad copy" very well may apply here, but _the rate with which those bad copies are falling into the hands of reviewers_ seems troubling. None of my first party Canon has ever demonstrated this phenomenon.



Having used/owned three 35A lenses, I'm very familiar with this experience. Sigma doesn't have nearly the same hit percentage as my Canon lenses, even with extensive USB tuning.


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## FECHariot (May 28, 2016)

vscd said:


> By the way, the difference between f1.2 and f1.4 is more than f1.4 to 1.8...



I didn't know 1/3 > 2/3.


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## FECHariot (May 28, 2016)

FramerMCB said:


> FECHariot said:
> 
> 
> > I was just about to bite on the Tamron 85 VC to upgrade my EF 85/1.8. I think I'll keep using the Canon and wait for this to pan out more.
> ...



The Tamron's weather sealing and VC are nice but Tamron also has my impatience on their side at this point.


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## YuengLinger (May 28, 2016)

I'm fortunate to have an ef 85mm 1.2L II, and its AF is consistently accurate, even at f/1.2 for a guy with less than the world's steadiest hands.

I love my Sigma 35mm 1.4 Art and 15mm 2.8mm Fisheye.

Tried two Sigma 50mm 1.4 Arts. The word "sucks" is rude, vulgar, inflammatory, juvenile...But it's the best word I can think of for the AF of the 50mm with a 5DIII.

So, Sigma would be a last resort at this point.

AFAIK, they NEVER updated their firmware on the 50mm Art, at least not to fix the AF problems. They DID make an AF fix for the 35mm Art, and I own one of the updated copies.

Canon, where is your new 50mm 1.2L???

Ok, back to the topic...


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## vscd (May 28, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, the difference between f1.2 and f1.4 is more than f1.4 to 1.8...
> ...



Sorry, came out wrong. I didn't ment the light but the effort to build. At least with a usable open aperture. The 85L should be the only 85mm f1.2 with autofocus.


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## Eldar (May 28, 2016)

I wonder how many fantastic reviews I'd have to read, to be tempted ... Inconsistent AF will most likely be the case with this one as well ...


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## AvTvM (May 29, 2016)

not interested in f/1.4 and large, expensive lens.

i'd like to get a very compact, optically very good and very affordable Canon EF 85/1.8 STM IS. Mainly for events and small/club concerts and for street/walka out. i prfer tele over wide-angle most of the time for human subjects.


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## vscd (May 29, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> not interested in f/1.4 and large, expensive lens.
> 
> i'd like to get a very compact, optically very good and very affordable Canon EF 85/1.8 STM IS. Mainly for events and small/club concerts and for street/walka out. i prfer tele over wide-angle most of the time for human subjects.



Sounds like Tamron already build exaclty what you want...


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## YuengLinger (May 29, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> not interested in f/1.4 and large, expensive lens.
> 
> i'd like to get a very compact, optically very good and very affordable Canon EF 85/1.8 STM IS. Mainly for events and small/club concerts and for street/walka out. i prfer tele over wide-angle most of the time for human subjects.



Ah, a lens for ''the people.''


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## AvTvM (May 29, 2016)

vscd said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > not interested in f/1.4 and large, expensive lens.
> ...



too big, too heavy (700 g), way too expensive (€ 849 where i live!). i am thinking more about an greatly improved EF 85/1.8 .. 400g, 58 filter, plus IS ... € 399 or so


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## ahsanford (May 29, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



I think a number of people want the IS-refresh to occur with the 50mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.8 as well. The mystery is how light it may / may not be -- the 24 in the 24/28/35 IS refresh basically maintained the same weight with the update, but the other two got a good 3-4 oz heavier in the process.

- A


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## [email protected] (May 29, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



I'm afraid you can't get the same iq with a smaller, lighter design. Even if the new Canon 85 uses the Blue Goo, that appears to require a front and a back element to contain the stuff. The 35mm was awesome, but it felt like a can of glass in the hand.

I sold mine for the Tamron 35 vc. Not qite as perfect iq, but lighter, cheaper, smaller. Asking for something lighter, cheaper and smaller than Tamrons 85 mm - which I also own - with equivalent iq is probably asking for an unprecedented design innovation.

I would be first to buy, but not holding breath.


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## vscd (May 30, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



So you want a better lens with IS at the same weight/size and with nearly the old price? Ok. I want a 24-120 f1.4 IS for 299€.


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## AlmostDecent (May 30, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> The key concern in this thread is (appropriately) autofocus consistency performance. That's a big deal with a lens like this.
> 
> I'm not going to chime in either pro/con Sigma as I want to go into the review of this lens (when it arrives) with as much objectivity as possible.
> 
> I just want to share this anecdote: I obviously get a lot of feedback from photographers around the world via my reviews. I get very few complaints from Nikon shooters regarding autofocus accuracy issues on Sigma lenses, but a lot of complaints from Canon shooters. While I get fewer autofocus complaints from Tamron shooters in general, I would say that more of those are from Nikon shooters compared to Canon shooters. As just a general observation I would say that Sigma has got *Nikon's* focus algorithms down better than *Canons*, and the opposite may be true from Tamron.



Not having a Sigma lens, I cannot comment, but I will say that I have stellar performance of the Tamron 35 f/1.8 on a Nikon D750. I did AF finetune it (ruler method), but it was a fairly painless process, and solved the slight front-focus it displayed.


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## AvTvM (May 30, 2016)

vscd said:


> So you want a better lens with IS at the same weight/size and with nearly the old price? Ok. I want a 24-120 f1.4 IS for 299€.



Yes, I would buy an up-to-date, compact and light Canon EF 85/1.8 IS STM lens with 
* up-to-date image quality
* up-to- date AF-system
* up-to-date IS (4 stops+) at an 
* up-to-date price. 

USD/€ 399 may be a bit aggressive, so fine, lets say € 499  
50% higher price than old EF 85/1.8 and 2016 lens design + glass should allow for a significantly better lens, no? 

Additionally: 
* I would not mind a plastic mount and I would not need a focus ring and manual focus gear.  
* Weather-sealing however would be really appreciated. 2 Euro extra cost for 2 O-rings and a rubber gasket should be included in the 499 price tag. As well as 99 cent production cost for the lens hood. 8)


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2016)

CanonGuy said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ExodistPhotography said:
> ...



Sony lets Sigma use their af tech because Sony can't make a decent lens themselves. Not so with Canon.

Canon makes great lenses. No reason to share the sales with 3rd party manufacturers.

Is there even an adaptor for a Sony lens to Canon camera? I just looked at B&H and could not find one. maybe there is one, but I couldn't find it. There are many for Canon lens to Sony camera.


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## Infraspace (May 30, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Not that im a fan of Sony or anything. But adapting a Sony lens (Talking about E-mount) to a Canon EF camera is impossible without destroying the IQ. This is because of the focusing plane of the lens would not match with the canon sensor. So then the lens would focus in front of the sensor. To fix this you would need an extra glass element in the adapter. This is the same reason you cant adapt an FD lens to a EF camera. While you can adapt anything to a MFT sensor because the distance from the back of the lens to the sensor is so small, and you can add distance, but not remove it. Unless you want to snap the mirror on your precious camera that is.


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2016)

Infraspace said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > CanonGuy said:
> ...





Infraspace said:


> Not that I'm a fan of Sony or anything. But adapting a Sony lens (Talking about E-mount) to a Canon EF camera is impossible without destroying the IQ. This is because of the focusing plane of the lens would not match with the canon sensor. So then the lens would focus in front of the sensor. To fix this you would need an extra glass element in the adapter.



There are Sony E mount to Canon EF lens adaptors.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839141-REG/vello_la_nex_cef_vello_lens_mount_adapter.html



Infraspace said:


> This is the same reason you cant adapt an FD lens to a EF camera.



Ahhh, and I did see FD to EF adaptors. Yup. 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/742933-REG/Vello_LA_CEF_CFD_Canon_EOS_To_Canon.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/995122-REG/fotodiox_fd_eos_p_pro_canon_eos_camera.html



Infraspace said:


> To fix this you would need an extra glass element in the adapter.



And they do have focus correcting lenses built in. 

Doing the same for crappy Sony lenses shouldn't be a problem. It's just that there is no market for Sony to Canon adaptors. Why? Sony makes poor lenses.

Why have a Sony camera when one must adapt somebody else's lens to it? And you are right, the IQ can't be as good, but it must be better than the native Sony lens or there would not be a reason to manufacture the adaptors. 

So there is no need to snap the mirror on my precious camera.


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## Refurb7 (May 31, 2016)

vscd said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > not interested in f/1.4 and large, expensive lens.
> ...



Tamron built the lens I want. I'd love a Canon EF 85/1.8 STM IS, but I can't wait for one. The Tamron is not compact, but it's not too big either.


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## Infraspace (May 31, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Infraspace said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



The E-mount adapter is from EF to E-Mount, so nothing new about that one. And FD adapters make your lenses soft. Ive tried out multiple FD adapters on multiple cameras, and they all made the lenses so soft that it didnt look like they focused unless you stopped it down which kind of defeats the purpose of having a cheap but fast prime. So yea, adapting a lens to DSLR mount system is hard, but adapting it to a mirrorless system is quite easy because of the focal plane of the lens. 
For photography i agree with you. Why go with a different system if youre going to shoot Canon glass. But some people want to try something different. And for poeple like me, whos into the film side of thing jumping ship from Canon is the only good thing to do. But I still want EF glass, so i adapt my lenses.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (May 31, 2016)

Refurb7 said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



I've quickly come to LOVE the Tamron. It is a nice size, focuses quickly and accurately, and the image quality really is quite a special combo of sharpness and bokeh. Here's a small gallery of images I've shared from the lens thus far on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/albums/72157667746123976


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## captainkanji (Jun 1, 2016)

An 85 is next on my list of primes. I'm waiting to see how the Art performs. I wonder if these 85s will give me the same warm feeling inside as my 135 does?


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## ExodistPhotography (Jun 1, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> Refurb7 said:
> 
> 
> > vscd said:
> ...



Hey Dustin, I know we briefly talked on your review video for the Tamron 85mm. But even looking at your flickr page, those images just do not look sharp at all. IDK, perhaps my standards are higher.. :-/


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## Zanken (Jun 2, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > So you want a better lens with IS at the same weight/size and with nearly the old price? Ok. I want a 24-120 f1.4 IS for 299€.
> ...



The closest thing I can think of to what you're asking for is like the 24/28/35mm IS lenses. These little things are great, but only the 35mm is f2.0. I get the feeling that if you pushed a design like that for an 85mm at f2.0 there would be some compromises to IQ (CA/vignetting/distortion). There is a reason Tamron's f1.8 lenses are pretty chunky.


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## AvTvM (Jun 2, 2016)

Zanken said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I would buy an up-to-date, compact and light Canon EF 85/1.8 IS STM lens with
> ...



Closest thing I can think of is Nikon 85/1.8. Excellent lens, only 350g and optically far superior to old Canon 85/1.8. Street price about 25% / € 100 higher than Canon. 

In terms of form factor & weight (but not in price!) my ideal short tele prime would be like along the lines of (old) Pentax smc 77/1.8 LTD ... 
http://static.lensbuyingguide.com/img/800/1595.jpg
Adding up to date optical design, STM-AF and IS would add a bit of size and weight, but it could still come in at 300 grams. Leaving focus gear and focus ring off, would save cost, complexity and weight and make weather-sealing even more simple.


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## GuyF (Jun 3, 2016)

From the Sigma UK site http://www.sigma-imaging-uk.com/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=196

2016-05-27 00:00:00
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Users

Thank you for purchasing and using our products.

We have found that some SIGMA interchangeable lenses for CANON are not fully compatible with
CANON EOS-1DX Mark II, which was released on April 28th.
When certain lenses are attached to this camera, exposure of the image may not be accurate.
We are sorry for the inconvenience, and we will make a further announcement on our website
when specific details are finalized.
In addition, please also refer to the below usage notice related to this announcement.

[Phenomenon]
When the lenses listed below are used and either “Evaluative Metering” or
“Center-weighted Average Metering” is selected in Metering Mode of the camera,
the image could show some underexposure.

[Products concerned]
SIGMA 20mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art
SIGMA 35mm F1.4 DG HSM | Art
SIGMA 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM

We are currently working on the firmware update for respective lenses, and the release dates will be announced later.

Usage Notice for customers who are using EOS mount SIGMA lenses on a CANON EOS-1DX Mark II
・ MO (Manual Override) function is unavailable with this camera (Full-time Manual function can be offered).
・ When using a SIGMA interchangeable lens for EOS, setting the corrections to [Disable] is recommended,
as “Lens Correction” functions of the camera, such as Peripheral illumination correction, Chromatic aberration correction,
Diffraction correction and Distortion correction, are not supported. If those functions are activated,
the performance of lenses may not be accurate. This is not only for EOS-1DX Mark II, but also other camera bodies.



I'm sure I read that the current 85mm can't be used with the USB dock so owners may have to return it to Sigma for the firmware to get updated. Might just sell mine in anticipation of the mythical Art version.


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## AvTvM (Jun 4, 2016)

next Sigma lens incompatibility to be expected for 5D IV ... and every time Canon launches a new camera with subtle, totally undocumented changes to lens mount protocol, lens recognition and handling.

buying third party lenses for Canon remaims an unpredictable risk. i am not willing to accept it.


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## GuyF (Jun 4, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> ...buying third party lenses for Canon remaims an unpredictable risk. i am not willing to accept it.



I see where you're coming from but would say you can have many years of happy shooting with third party lenses.

It's only now, after 4 years of using the 5D3 + Sigma 85mm, that I decide to upgrade to a 1DX2 and this "phenomenon" becomes an issue for myself. Had I chosen to stick with the 5D3, this problem would be a non-issue from my persective. At the time I could've bought the Canon f1.2 but wasn't keen on the fly-by-wire focusing and felt the Sigma gave just as pleasing results for half the price.

There might be an 85mm Art just around the corner and I would probably get one even if I still had the 5D3. The fact that I'm also getting a 1DX2 as soon as Canon UK can be bothered to send them to my dealer is just icing on a tasty cake.


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## BobHope (Jun 8, 2016)

I do a lot of shooting wide open with fast primes and I have some comments......

There do not currently exist any 85mm primes that shoot at f1.4 without colour fringing. 

Sigma seem to have cracked the code on how to make fast primes that are sharp wide open without colour fringing and that are apochromatic ( no red/green colour shift in out of focus areas ) which has previously been the reserve of 4k Zeiss Glass ( although they trade off contrast and flare performance to get there ) 

If you could shoot a full length portrait at a sharp f1.4 on a full frame 36mp+ camera, we are finally in medium format territory, and we can have back that beautiful look that we have been missing on digital. 

Hence, everyone is very interested in this lens...Sigma could pull off a real master piece of a lens here. 

However........ with fast primes like this, you run into a few problems optical that on the 35mm and 50mm are just not as critical - the 85mm will be harder to focus, and will be more of a portrait bokeh machine. 

1st off is the bokeh - some sigma lenses have "onion ring" bokeh and this is not acceptable. 

Secondly, the bokeh should not be truncated, ie it should not turn into Cats eyes at the edge of the picture. 

The "smoothness" and other values are harder to quantify...Sigma 50mm prime has quite poor bokeh in this respect. 

And then we get to the focussing : 

DSLR's cannot accurately focus at f1.4, the autofocus system can't see down to that level and they therefore guess a midpoint. This is ( one of ) the reason why the f2.8 pro lenses are so fast and quick to focus, they are matched to the autofocus system. 

Sigma lenses don't have the same accurate movement that canon lenses have largely due to canon patents and this "guessing" is therefore not as accurate : 

the full story is here : https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/

Nikon *do not* use this system - hence Sigma lenses have less problems on Nikon bodies. 

Sony bodies can use contrast detection on the sensor to accurately focus down at f1.4

So my prediction is that any f1.4 Sigma lens on a Canon body will by the very nature of its design not focus accurately. * given current Sigma tech *

So this is why the Sigma 85mm f1.4 is taking so long - Sigma need to up their autofocus accuracy game, and their bokeh game in order to really make a winning lens design.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 8, 2016)

BobHope said:


> I do a lot of shooting wide open with fast primes and I have some comments......
> 
> There do not currently exist any 85mm primes that shoot at f1.4 without colour fringing.
> 
> ...



I agree with a lot of what is said here, but I do want to add that it might be false hope to think that Sigma can eliminate the "cat eye" bokeh look at the edge of frame. I've only see a couple lenses out of more than a hundred that did not have that effect. I've reviewed a lot of 85mm lenses, too, and have yet to see one that didn't exhibit that phenomena.


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## BobHope (Jun 8, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> BobHope said:
> 
> 
> > I do a lot of shooting wide open with fast primes and I have some comments......
> ...



Total elimination is probably a bit optomistic on my part, however I own the 180mm 2.8 Sigma and the Cats eye effect is bordering on objectional in that design... if its that bad in the 85mm I may pass......


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## photojoern.de (Jun 9, 2016)

Please, community, can anybody explain: why should I want to own the lens? 

If price was not really a factor in my decision, I would probably already have the 85mm from Canon in my bag.

If I want to make portraits handheld, the Canon 100mm 2.8 IS II Macro would give me the same low-light performance (f2.8 with 4 stops IS => equals f 1.2). Yes, not the same boquet, but f1.4 has an extremely shallow depth of field and you will have an extremely hard time to get the eyes tack sharp. Hard enough already with the f 2.8. And the image quality of the 100mm f2.8 is stunning. Alternatively, the 70-200 f2.8 IS L zooms from Tamron and Canon give you similar quality with more flexibility in focal length.

It would have made it´s way into my bag with an IS in it, giving it true uniqueness in application (handheld low light). Yes, for the cost of added weight, but hey: that´s always the price.

Any comments? Am I wrong? What piece am I missing?
Thanks, cheers,
Jörn


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## d (Jun 9, 2016)

photojoern.de said:


> Please, community, can anybody explain: why should I want to own the lens?
> 
> If price was not really a factor in my decision, I would probably already have the 85mm from Canon in my bag.
> 
> ...



Hi Jörn!

You wrote: "(f2.8 with 4 stops IS => equals f 1.2)". That's the bit that you're not quite thinking about correctly. 

The "rule-of thumb" for shooting handheld without any kind of stabilisation is that you want a shutter speed roughly 1/focal length of the lens: e.g. 1/100th second for a Canon 100mm 2.8 lens.

If that lens had 1-stop equiv. IS, you could safely shoot at 1/50th sec, with 2-stops IS @ 1/25th sec...4-stops @ 1/6th second. But at 1/6th of a second, any motion of the subject matter in the scene will be much more blurred than if you were shooting at 1/100th of a second.

So while IS helps stabilise your movements, it does nothing for the movement of your subject. A lens with a wider aperture (e.g. an 85mm 1.4) lets in more light, so the shutter speed can be higher and subject movement captured reduced.

Those two extra stops available at f/1.4 vs. f/2.8 give you a greater ability control or eliminate subject motion, as well as isolate your subject using shallower depth of field - a look that is very much _de rigueur_ these days, to the detriment of many images IMHO. And while shooting wide open at f/1.4 is challenging, practice and good technique will allow you to achieve a high proportion of images with the focus where you want it to be.

I agree with you that the Canon 100mm L IS is a fantastic lens - I'd like to add it to my kit one day, despite already owning Canon's 85mm 1.2 - to me they serve different shooting scenarios.

Cheers,
d.


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