# The RF mount mirrorless version of the EOS-1D X Mark III is coming in 2021 [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 23, 2020)

> I posted yesterday about Sony beating Canon to the “pro body” punch, think EOS-1D X Mark III when I say “pro body”. Intergrated battery grip, larger battery, and built better than G-Wagen.
> I have been told by a great source that Canon will definitely be announcing an RF mount mirrorless version of the EOS-1D X Mark III in 2021. Likely in the second half of the year. Please keep in mind the current global uncertainty could obviously delay things. At the time of writing this though, this info is as good as gold.
> I will call the camera the EOS-R1, which seems like a logical nomenclature for the king of the RF mount camera bodies.
> The only information I have been told about the camera spec wise is that it *WILL NOT* recycle the EOS-1D X Mark III sensor.
> More to come….



Continue reading...


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## BakaBokeh (Sep 23, 2020)

It's gonna have to be a beast to outdo the R5.


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## IcyBergs (Sep 23, 2020)

Here lies DSLR
RIP
1988-2021


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## H. Jones (Sep 23, 2020)

Sounds like next year I'll be selling my 1DX2 and 5D3 and picking this up to go with my R5


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## joestopper (Sep 23, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



"WILL NOT recycle the EOS-1D X Mark III senso"
Canon seems to catch up with new sensors technologies ... very exciting.


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## marathonman (Sep 23, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> Here lies DSLR
> RIP
> 1988-2021


EOSHD is warming his fridge up already....


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## zim (Sep 23, 2020)

My first canon was an F1 if i could even remotely afford this my last canon would be an R1
It would be the sqircule of life


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## padam (Sep 23, 2020)

I guess it will be at least 6k60p 4k120p video (not line-skipped like the R5)
20fps mechanical shutter and even more with electronic.


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## ethanz (Sep 23, 2020)

zim said:


> My first canon was an F1 if i could even remotely afford this my last canon would be an R1
> It would be the sqircule of life


Start selling blood plasma now and by then you might have enough.


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## TMHKR (Sep 23, 2020)

padam said:


> I guess it will be at least 6k60p 4k120p video (not line-skipped like the R5)


I don't think the killer video specs will be the main feature of a 1D-series camera.


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## padam (Sep 23, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> I don't think the killer video specs will be the main feature of a 1D-series camera.


Every 1DX was TOL in terms of video as well as stills over the 5D series (except in the first one there was a separate 1DC model)

And this won't change here either, when you ask 7000$+ for a camera in 2021 (a newer generation sensor suggests a price increase over the 1DX III), it needs to deliver on all fronts.


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## tpatana (Sep 23, 2020)

Sorry credit card, you've had tough year and next year is not looking too bright either...


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## DBounce (Sep 23, 2020)

Great, I’ll be picking one up when it comes out... that should take care of the pro body needs... on another front my Sony A7S3 is shipping out today!


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## tomislavmoze (Sep 23, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> I don't think the killer video specs will be the main feature of a 1D-series camera.


Actually there are some benefits of a good video hybrid for the market the 1d series is made for, photojournalism being the one of them where more and more photographers do video and photo, also the ability screen grab which is also really usable for photo assignments.


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## Jim Corbett (Sep 23, 2020)

2021 will be a flagship showdown.

Let me initiate a drooling sequence:

30 mp stacked w/o rolling shutter
14 fps mech. shutter in 14 bit / 20 fps el. shutter in 12 bit (13?)
LP-E19H 3200 mAh
2x CFexpress B and 2x SD UHS III
AF sensitivity -8EV (minimum )
No IBIS (Please God!)
No video and low-pass filter (Please God!)
1 000 000 shutter actuations guaranteed
What else?


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## padam (Sep 23, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> 14 fps mech. shutter in 14 bit / 20 fps el. shutter in 12 bit (13?)
> 2x CFexpress A and 2x SD UHS III


It won't be less than the R5
So it is 2x CFExpress Type B only like the 1DX III, and also 20fps mechanical at least, since the 1DX III does that with the mirror being out of the way as well.


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## CC2937 (Sep 23, 2020)

Well I will keep my 1DX3 until it arrives but will definitely be preordering it once available!


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## Mark3794 (Sep 23, 2020)

Considering how fast is the R5 readout even with 45 mp to read, i expect a sensor similar to the A9 one


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## H. Jones (Sep 23, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> 2021 will be a flagship showdown.
> 
> Let me initiate a drooling sequence:
> 
> ...



Flicker reduction has to be 10+ FPS, ideally they would implement the shutter finetuning of the Sony A9 which allows you to adjust shutter speed on such a micro level you can avoid flicker even in electronic 20 fps shutter. I love my R5, but it's not great for night sports when flicker reduction is limited to a pitiful 6 fps, but that's to be expected of a 5D level camera.

I'd also like to see an absolute minimum of 16 FPS in 14 bit, which is what the 1DX mark II was always able to pull off all those years ago.


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## koch1948 (Sep 23, 2020)

The problem with the EOS R1 is that the camera body will be so good, that it wouldn't feel right to use old EF "L" lenses even though the EF-RF adapters work just fine. Thus one could end up with a fantastic EOS R1 camera body with a whole new set of RF "L" lenses. When the RF "L" lenses are added to the equation, that pro-R camera system really becomes an investment.

That's why I chose to get the EOS-1D X Mark III camera body without the need to purchase RF lenses and reuse my old native EF "L" lenses.


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## slclick (Sep 23, 2020)

stills champ


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## bigchicken (Sep 23, 2020)

Glad I haven't ordered the R5, going to wait for this I think. A bigger R5 with no overheating and built to 1D-line weather-sealing/ruggedized standard is a pretty killer concept.


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## preppyak (Sep 23, 2020)

padam said:


> Every 1DX was TOL in terms of video as well as stills over the 5D series (except in the first one there was a separate 1DC model)
> 
> And this won't change here either, when you ask 7000$+ for a camera in 2021 (a newer generation sensor suggests a price increase over the 1DX III), it needs to deliver on all fronts.


Also, the processing speed and heat sink capacity needed to allow for the crazy frame rates and buffers in 1D stills cameras make massive video specs pretty easy.

100% will have 8k, and Id bet 4k120 is likely as well. Definitely gonna have RAW, etc as well.


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## zim (Sep 23, 2020)

ethanz said:


> Start selling blood plasma now and by then you might have enough.


I think I'd get more selling it to a distillery!


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## bbasiaga (Sep 23, 2020)

I wondered, after the R5 overheating issues, if the R1 was not in the works yet because of thermal issues. I think these typically get a dual Digic set up, and if one of those bad boys is throwing lots of heat imagine 2.... That's not to say they wouldn't just do a single next gen Digic, but it was just my thought that the processing required for an R1 series could be a limiting issue at the moment. 

The larger body with built in grip could give them some opportunities though for heat dissipation ideas. 

And no, I'm not trying to sound the alarm that this thing is going to melt down or what not. 

I'm just really excited to see what this can do. I imagine its hard to top the R5, but perhaps they have something up their sleeve. Top of the line EVF, faster mechanical shutter, smarter focus tracking AI....who knows. I imagine they'll forego any 8k video. Maybe land this on a 24MP sensor to differentiate from the R6, but still not go overboard for what most users need. Maybe instead of memory cards it will have a slot for one of those m type SSDs (crazy idea I know). 

I'll never own one, but I'm still excited to see what it can do. 

Brian


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 23, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> The problem with the EOS R1 is that the camera body will be so good, that it wouldn't feel right to use old EF "L" lenses even though the EF-RF adapters work just fine. Thus one could end up with a fantastic EOS R1 camera body with a whole new set of RF "L" lenses. When the RF "L" lenses are added to the equation, that pro-R camera system really becomes an investment.
> 
> That's why I chose to get the EOS-1D X Mark III camera body without the need to purchase RF lenses and reuse my old native EF "L" lenses.



I’m going to have to just deal with my EF L glass for now. I’ll be in the poor house after I get one of these...


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## drama (Sep 23, 2020)

I think it's clear between 8K in DSLR cameras and this week's pro cinema RF mount release that the new RF glass is designed for much higher resolution sensors. Not sure if that makes EF worth less or more. Look at Canon's K35's right now, they're hot to trot with film makers for the added softness they bring. 

I'm excited by this body. Past dual CF express cards, which seems a given if in second half of next year, I genuinely can't call what more you might need on top of the R5. 45MPx at 20FPS is crazy already. What's next?


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## H. Jones (Sep 23, 2020)

preppyak said:


> Also, the processing speed and heat sink capacity needed to allow for the crazy frame rates and buffers in 1D stills cameras make massive video specs pretty easy.
> 
> 100% will have 8k, and Id bet 4k120 is likely as well. Definitely gonna have RAW, etc as well.



Considering the 1DX Mark III didn't provide *any* resolution update to the 1DX Mark II's 20mp resolution, I'm not sure I'd expect it to manage the 45 megapixels needed for 8K. Canon isn't going to pull a total 360 on a camera they decided was fine with no increase to megapixels. They did their research, and their research said news work didn't need a big resolution increase. My newspaper downsizes every image we file to 2 megapixels, and most newspapers deal with the struggles of filing in the field where you have spotty cellphone service and can barely send a 2 megapixel jpeg at times.

I think high quality downsampled 6K is more likely. The top cap I'd put on the R1 resolution is around 32 megapixels, which I think is a sweet spot right now. I personally could do about 80% of my job with 30 megapixels and be happy, I love the 5D Mark IV we use at my full time job and wouldn't mind that resolution for a 1D.

I also have the R5 already, and the 45 megapixels at 20 FPS has turned into a lot of processing time on a top-of-the-line laptop and about 256 gigabytes just to cover one house fire. It's definitely changed my workflow from what I'm used to with the 1DX Mark II. I love the additional reach and ability to crop in when I really need it, but the majority of my images never get cropped and then end up downsized to 2 megapixels anyway.

I'd rather see a dynamic duo between the R5 and R1, like the 5D mark III and 1DX, where you have a 5D with more resolution in a slightly slower body, and a camera dedicated to absolute speed in all forms with a somewhat lower resolution.


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## AJ (Sep 23, 2020)

It will have a built-in print button.


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## gavinz (Sep 23, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> 2021 will be a flagship showdown.
> 
> Let me initiate a drooling sequence:
> 
> ...


Strange specs given the R5 and 1DXIII marks already set to compare. I would say definitely video, 2 slots (CFe and SD), IBIS probably, low pass filter.


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## H. Jones (Sep 23, 2020)

Another thing I'd throw into this, I won't be surprised if it hits at least 24 or 30 FPS raw bursts in stills, if not higher, especially if the resolution doesn't change much. 20 FPS is a spec that the R5 and 1DX3 already both pull off.


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## sanj (Sep 23, 2020)

For me to consider it, it would need to be around 32 mgpx or more. Am really curious to see how it will better R5!


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## amorse (Sep 23, 2020)

I think the most curious thing about this rumour is the suggestion that it will not have the 1DXIII's sensor. I mean, the 1DXIII's sensor will be less than 2 years old at the launch of this hypothetical camera, can already support very high resolution video output, has limited rolling shutter (I think), and compares well to any other sensor on the market. 

Using a new sensor this soon seems uncharacteristic of Canon's past decisions, so I'm wondering if this sensor is going to really drive into some new technology opportunity - maybe improved low light AF sensitivity, or a global shutter. Off chance of resolution increase (?), but I doubt it. 

I just can't help but wonder about what technological advance justified not using a very capable sensor already available, when they have done that in the past. Or who knows, maybe they'll throw the formula out the window and put in the R5 sensor - it certainly seems to be able to keep up with speed despite the resolution bump.


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## Atlasman (Sep 23, 2020)

I think 8K video will be a driving force of the future. The R5 is just the beginning.


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## Rocky (Sep 23, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> Here lies DSLR
> RIP
> 1988-2021


No quite. there is always a delay between the EVF and the lens. While optical view finder in the DSLR will have zero delsy. Therfore for action shot and BFI, DSLR is still the first choice before the mirrorless. One exception, Lieca M10 and similar. They still have a true opticel view finder.


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## slclick (Sep 23, 2020)

imho I do not think you should expect a 1 series body to deliver on all fronts for video, yes it will be a hybrid and it will be amazing but it will not deliver on the level of a Cinema body. That is not why it costs what it will cost.


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## Atlasman (Sep 23, 2020)

There are many features and options that can differentiate a Hybrid from a Cinema camera—with a commonality of 8K video.


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## Tidy Media (Sep 23, 2020)

2021? Canon... Canon is *******? Anyone?


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## jeanluc (Sep 23, 2020)

Hopefully they can not only announce it, but also actually produce it.


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## lo lite (Sep 23, 2020)

"G-Wagen"? What should that be? A "Geländewagen" maybe?


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## amorse (Sep 23, 2020)

lo lite said:


> "G-Wagen"? What should that be? A "Geländewagen" maybe?


Mercedes-Benz I think brands the vehicle as "G-Class" in Canada, but I've heard it colloquially referred to as a G-Wagen pretty commonly, though I guess that lingo varies by region!


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## marathonman (Sep 23, 2020)

drama said:


> I think it's clear between 8K in DSLR cameras and this week's pro cinema RF mount release that the new RF glass is designed for much higher resolution sensors. Not sure if that makes EF worth less or more. Look at Canon's K35's right now, they're hot to trot with film makers for the added softness they bring.
> 
> I'm excited by this body. Past dual CF express cards, which seems a given if in second half of next year, I genuinely can't call what more you might need on top of the R5. 45MPx at 20FPS is crazy already. What's next?



I hope they include the overheating function in all video modes and not just 8K and 4K 120fps / 4K HQ. I shoot mainly in 480 interlaced and can't believe they wheel out the cripple hammer to protect their lower end cameras by not giving me the overheating function in that mode. I guess they want me shooting 480i on their M50 but I refuse to replace my fleet of R5s with that.


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## MartinF. (Sep 23, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> The problem with the EOS R1 is that the camera body will be so good, that it wouldn't feel right to use old EF "L" lenses even though the EF-RF adapters work just fine. Thus one could end up with a fantastic EOS R1 camera body with a whole new set of RF "L" lenses. When the RF "L" lenses are added to the equation, that pro-R camera system really becomes an investment.
> 
> That's why I chose to get the EOS-1D X Mark III camera body without the need to purchase RF lenses and reuse my old native EF "L" lenses.


same here. I am planning to upgrade my 6D to 5D mkIV : Staying with DSLR, an maybe even buy a few not to used lenses as well (still a few on the shopping list...) RF glass is way to expensive. R5 body too expensive too (for now)


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## jam05 (Sep 23, 2020)

Now we're talking


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## jam05 (Sep 23, 2020)

I expect these cameras to be delivered en mass to the Olympic Village then in late July or August


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## slclick (Sep 23, 2020)

If people start picking apart Craigs wording, I think I'll head back to the KURVD thread for even further pain and anguish instead.


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## peters (Sep 23, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> I don't think the killer video specs will be the main feature of a 1D-series camera.


Well, depends on how you define "main feature" but so far the 1D line was incredible strong in the video compartment, not to say the best canon DSLR when it comes to video... The 1DC was the first ever 4k dslr with incredible good image quality at the time. The 1DX II had excellent 4k60 with only 1,3 crop, near perfect AF and without overheat. The only other canon at the time with 4k was the 5D IV, which was a pure disapointment with the weirdest rolling shutter ever and a 1,9 crop... Some argue that even compared to other brands the 1DX II was the best video DSLR. Than the 1DX III got the so far strongest video features in any Canon DSLR ever built. 
So while the 1D is mostly aimed at sports and press photographers, its video features where always class leading in my opinion


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## peters (Sep 23, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> The problem with the EOS R1 is that the camera body will be so good, that it wouldn't feel right to use old EF "L" lenses even though the EF-RF adapters work just fine. Thus one could end up with a fantastic EOS R1 camera body with a whole new set of RF "L" lenses. When the RF "L" lenses are added to the equation, that pro-R camera system really becomes an investment.
> 
> That's why I chose to get the EOS-1D X Mark III camera body without the need to purchase RF lenses and reuse my old native EF "L" lenses.


Hm what exactly is wrong with using the adapter? So far ALL my EF lenses work perfectly on my R5, even at 20fps with AF =) Its a quite solid build. Also you get internal variable ND filter! (Or just leave the clear glass in the adapter, which adds another layer of protection to the sensor =))


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## SteveC (Sep 23, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Sorry credit card, you've had tough year and next year is not looking too bright either...



Sisu.


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## PureClassA (Sep 23, 2020)

BOOM! I knew it. Canon aint fooling around no mo’ !!!


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## Methodical (Sep 23, 2020)

This is why I did not consider the 1DX3. I knew this probably was a peak into the future mirrorless 1D body and Canon trying to get that last money grab for the 1D Dslr body.

They should name the new body EOS 1DR to distinguish it from the previous generation 1D camera, like they did going from the 1D4 to the 1DX.


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## navastronia (Sep 23, 2020)

YEssssssssssss!! 

If I can ever afford one (and a couple pieces of good RF glass to go with it), the R1 would be a system I could shoot on for 8-10 years, easily.


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## navastronia (Sep 23, 2020)

Methodical said:


> This is why I did not consider the 1DX3. I knew this probably was a peak into the future mirrorless 1D body and Canon trying to get that last money grab for the 1D Dslr body.
> 
> They should name the new body EOS 1DR to distinguish it from the previous generation 1D camera, like they did going from the 1D4 to the 1DX.



I think "R1," on its own, sounds more graceful.


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## highdesertmesa (Sep 23, 2020)

Canon turning it up to DIGIC XI.


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## Hector1970 (Sep 23, 2020)

It will be interesting to see more details. The IDX III is great but the 20 MP feels undercooked. It's fine for large objects but too small for birds. The buffer is so good I have wondered if it was actually designed to cope with a bigger sensor but they didn't got for that. If it was 30mp it would have been the better camera for that. A mirrorless version if it was the same size could have a quite a large battery. The IDXIII battery is great. It's lasts for a long time. 
The FPS on a mirrorless version will be incredible. From a practical perspective I'm not sure a R1 will be that much better than an R5 which already seems to have the best possible focusing system and a larger sensor. It may be on 8K video where surely it will have less heat issues.


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## jungao1024 (Sep 23, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> The problem with the EOS R1 is that the camera body will be so good, that it wouldn't feel right to use old EF "L" lenses even though the EF-RF adapters work just fine. Thus one could end up with a fantastic EOS R1 camera body with a whole new set of RF "L" lenses. When the RF "L" lenses are added to the equation, that pro-R camera system really becomes an investment.
> 
> That's why I chose to get the EOS-1D X Mark III camera body without the need to purchase RF lenses and reuse my old native EF "L" lenses.


The R1 body will balance Hyper-Trinity RF lenses perfectly(14-24 f1.4, 28-70 f2 and 70-135 f2)


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## brad-man (Sep 23, 2020)

navastronia said:


> I think "R1," on its own, sounds more graceful.


Yup. The "D" moniker will go the way of the Dodo and the Digital DSLR. No Ds in the R series.


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## David - Sydney (Sep 24, 2020)

amorse said:


> Mercedes-Benz I think brands the vehicle as "G-Class" in Canada, but I've heard it colloquially referred to as a G-Wagen pretty commonly, though I guess that lingo varies by region!


The Mercedes-Benz *G*-Class, sometimes called *G*-*Wagen* (short for Geländewagen, "terrain vehicle"), is a mid-size four-wheel drive luxury SUV manufactured by Magna Steyr (formerly Steyr-Daimler-Puch) in Austria and sold by Mercedes-Benz. ... The *G*-*Wagen* is characterised by its boxy styling and body-on-frame construction


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## Famateur (Sep 24, 2020)

For Canon to include 8K video in the R1, it would require at least a 45MP sensor. That would mean Canon would be reversing course on catering to sports photographers' preference of smaller file size for faster transfer to the agencies they work for. Getting the image to press first is higher priority than being able to crop deeply or print bus-sized images (at least up until now, anyway). Who knows, though -- Canon might have a trick or two up its sleeve for the R1.

The R1 is way outta my league anyway, so I'm glad I'm not waiting for it. Then again, it might be released by the time my R5 finally arrives!


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## David - Sydney (Sep 24, 2020)

My guess is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
- Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
- Unlimited 8k cinema raw
- 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
- No line skipping/pixel binning 4k/6k modes
- no 29:59 recording limit
- Clog3
- 45mp sensor with IBIS (IBIS can be turned off) but faster read speed and less rolling shutter
- {edited as already on 1DXiii} 20fps mechanical with full tracking
- {edited} 30fps electronic shutter burst with full tracking - perhaps with buffer ie not unlimited
- {edited} minimum 16fps using anti-flicker depending on frequency of the flicker lighting
- Significant but still limited 8K raw for burst 33mp jpegs (but don't call it that)
- ~20mp on-the fly over sampled (no lossy compression/S-RAW) at full 20fps unlimited buffer. Best of both worlds.
- pixel shift high res stills
- 9+ megadot EFV with no blackout and fast refresh rates (at lease 120fps). >0.5" in size
- full sized HDMI 2.1 port (48G) or thunderbolt 3 USB-C or both
- Mini XLR audio option
- Ethernet port
- Flippy screen included. Won't be great for portrait recording but still needed I think. Weather sealing will need to be excellent though

All of this is basically available today and merges the 1D/R5 features. Main differences are electronic processing/firmware and sensor

Won't directly compete with cinema line due to form factor but there will be a similar specced cinema form factor with unlimited 8k raw option but vented. Cxxx option will be more expensive.


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## peters (Sep 24, 2020)

Famateur said:


> For Canon to include 8K video in the R1, it would require at least a 45MP sensor. That would mean Canon would be reversing course on catering to sports photographers' preference of smaller file size for faster transfer to the agencies they work for. Getting the image to press first is higher priority than being able to crop deeply or print bus-sized images (at least up until now, anyway). Who knows, though -- Canon might have a trick or two up its sleeve for the R1.
> 
> The R1 is way outta my league anyway, so I'm glad I'm not waiting for it. Then again, it might be released by the time my R5 finally arrives!


If they include some Kind of S-Raw with half the Resolution this topic would be off the table


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## peters (Sep 24, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> My guess is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
> - Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
> - Unlimited 8k cinema raw
> - 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
> ...


On the one hand, this sounds like a completely crazy wish list and on the other hand, it still sounds realistic. :-D
I am curious.
If the specs apply, the price will probably be even higher than before - maybe 8k usd...


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## slclick (Sep 24, 2020)

peters said:


> On the one hand, this sounds like a completely crazy wish list and on the other hand, it still sounds realistic. :-D
> I am curious.
> If the specs apply, the price will probably be even higher than before - maybe 8k usd...


There is only one hand and this list has no hand. This describes a video centric camera. They might make it mirrorless but they will not make it something other than what the 1 line was intended. I laughed out loud when I read those specs.


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 24, 2020)

marathonman said:


> EOSHD is warming his fridge up already....


Canon is *******!


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 24, 2020)

preppyak said:


> Also, the processing speed and heat sink capacity needed to allow for the crazy frame rates and buffers in 1D stills cameras make massive video specs pretty easy.
> 
> 100% will have 8k, and Id bet 4k120 is likely as well. Definitely gonna have RAW, etc as well.


Video will probably be 6K.
The high resolution of R5 makes an unlimited buffer on CFExpress not possible.
There would have to be a technical advancement.


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## arbitrage (Sep 24, 2020)

My bet is they will keep the "X" and it will be named R1X...otherwise just R1.


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## Danglin52 (Sep 24, 2020)

Methodical said:


> This is why I did not consider the 1DX3. I knew this probably was a peak into the future mirrorless 1D body and Canon trying to get that last money grab for the 1D Dslr body.
> 
> They should name the new body EOS 1DR to distinguish it from the previous generation 1D camera, like they did going from the 1D4 to the 1DX.


Same here. I sold my EF 200-400 (weight more than migration to R5) and 1dx II prior to the R5 announcement based on the “mirrorless“ performance of the 1dx III (Jared P. review). I felt it showed where Canon was headed and what we could expect in an R5 and beyond. I received one of the first shipments of the R5 at the end of July and very happy with my decision. I was going to buy a second R5 for backup, but I may hold off until I have clarity on the pro + Canon. I don’t really need another high-end body until an Africa trip late 2021. My preference would be a body similar in size to an R5 + grip, although I am sure it would need to be a little larger.


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## David - Sydney (Sep 24, 2020)

slclick said:


> There is only one hand and this list has no hand. This describes a video centric camera. They might make it mirrorless but they will not make it something other than what the 1 line was intended. I laughed out loud when I read those specs.


The list is a hybrid between current 1DXiii specs and R5 specs. 
It describes an excellent stills machine from R5 and improves on video capabilities from R5 (mostly thermal) with a new sensor.
Dual processors have been the case with 1DX ii and there is space for 2 processors in a 1D body
Dual Digic X would provide the horsepower for
- the oversampled video and
- 16fps downsampled 45->~20mp stills to meet the existing 1DX user base's requirements
IBIS for full frame is already in R5
9 megadot EVF from the A7Siii
Flippy screen already in R5... would mean a redesign of 1D body

Canon's engineers went completely out of (over!) the box with R5. If we saw the R5 spec list (even with thermal limits) 6 months ago, everyone would think we are crazy. It is amazing even now! 
The 1DXiii specs are similarly great and would need to improve to have migration from 1DX users and R5 users. 1DX users don't need/want a smaller body and would accept the same weight but prefer less. Reducing the depth of the 1DXiii due to pentaprism and separate (heat generating) OVF metering sensor is a possibility but the space could be used for thermal dissipation as long as space around the lens is sufficient.
The biggest assumption on my part is the sensor being 8k (~45mp) with a faster readout for 16fps mechanical and less rolling shutter for 20fps and video. The rest is processing power, thermal management and battery life in a 1D body.

Why not!


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## David - Sydney (Sep 24, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Video will probably be 6K.
> The high resolution of R5 makes an unlimited buffer on CFExpress not possible.
> There would have to be a technical advancement.


CFe card v1 specs has 2GB/s with PCIe lanes. Even with the current crop of type B cards, 8k raw can be recorded with the thermal limitation being the issue rather than throughput speeds ie 8k 30fps (albeit at 33mp pixel size). 45mp/20fps limitation is the internal bus and not the CFe cards especially with CFe v2 specs allowing 4 PCIe lanes ie 4Gb/s max speed


----------



## rinamiele (Sep 24, 2020)

I just want the AF Smart Controller on the R1. That's all I want. OK, and maybe at least 32 MP. But mostly the AF Smart Controller. Ha HA!


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Sep 24, 2020)

Will actually be exciting news if it's not another lame 20MP sensor. Offer something in the 30-36MP range and price it at $5.5K and I'm in like Flynn.

Not sure why people think the EF glass is somehow a bad move on the RF. RF glass is much dearer, and EF glass still works a treat even the AF is excellent. Also on the pixel starved 1 series the RF glass would be a waste of money, EF L glass handled the 50MP 5DsR with ease. Current RF lens line up leaves a lot to be desired: either isnanely expensive and large or stupidly slow. Where are the all the f/1.8 pimes in the 20-50mm range, where's the macro, where's the 200-600 f/6.3. So glad I never sold my EF glass as other than the RF 24-70 f/2.8 nothing else tempts me at all.


----------



## djack41 (Sep 24, 2020)

Rocky said:


> No quite. there is always a delay between the EVF and the lens. While optical view finder in the DSLR will have zero delsy. Therfore for action shot and BFI, DSLR is still the first choice before the mirrorless. One exception, Lieca M10 and similar. They still have a true opticel view finder.


The EVF lag in the Sony A9ll is all but imperceptible and the camera is wonderful for tracking BIF. The lag on this new Canon will likely be even less. 
Mirror blackout of DSLRs makes tracking BIF much more difficult.


----------



## Chig (Sep 24, 2020)

preppyak said:


> Also, the processing speed and heat sink capacity needed to allow for the crazy frame rates and buffers in 1D stills cameras make massive video specs pretty easy.
> 
> 100% will have 8k, and Id bet 4k120 is likely as well. Definitely gonna have RAW, etc as well.


Well 50% larger body size and 2 Digic X processors writing to 2 cf express cards makes it a lot easier to manage heat


----------



## degos (Sep 24, 2020)

drama said:


> I think it's clear between 8K in DSLR cameras and this week's pro cinema RF mount release that the new RF glass is designed for much higher resolution sensors.



All the later EF L lenses were designed for 100MP+ sensors. Well except the 24-105 II but it's barely an L anyway.


----------



## AlanF (Sep 24, 2020)

navastronia said:


> YEssssssssssss!!
> 
> If I can ever afford one (and a couple pieces of good RF glass to go with it), the R1 would be a system I could shoot on for 8-10 years, easily.


If you could afford it, then you would buy the next 1-series after a few years.


----------



## degos (Sep 24, 2020)

AlanF said:


> If you could afford it, then you would buy the next 1-series after a few years.



Plenty of working photographers still using the 1DX and 1DX2. Just because they make money doesn't mean they want to piss it away on upgrades.

They'll keep using those bodies until they finally fail or they get a really compelling trade-in offer.


----------



## Joules (Sep 24, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> The biggest assumption on my part is the sensor being 8k (~45mp) with a faster readout for 16fps mechanical and less rolling shutter for 20fps and video. The rest is





Jim Corbett said:


> 14 fps mech. shutter in 14 bit / 20 fps el. shutter in 12 bit (13?)


I couldn't find a post that pointed this out already. But:

The 1R won't get a downgrade in mechanical shutter performance. The 1DX III already manages 20 FPS mechanical, not just electronic.

Canon somehow managed to get a huge jump in performance for their most recent shutters (the 1DX III is fast, and both the R5 and R6 are way faster and way more durable than the 5D IV). Once the cost for the entire mirror assembly, extra AF and metering sensors and OVF are gone, that may free up resources to push the mechanical FPS past 20. Is that even a requirement? I don't know. Electronic should definitely exceed 20, if just to catch up with the M6 II (18 MP 30 FPS electronic crop mode). Yes, the 1 series isn't always the best jn everything. But the first 1 series should demonstrate what the technology allows for in comparison to DSLR in my opinion.


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> I couldn't find a post that pointed this out already. But:
> 
> The 1R won't get a downgrade in mechanical shutter performance. The 1DX III already manages 20 FPS mechanical, not just electronic.
> 
> Canon somehow managed to get a huge jump in performance for their most recent shutters (the 1DX III is fast, and both the R5 and R6 are way faster and way more durable than the 5D IV). Once the cost for the entire mirror assembly, extra AF and metering sensors and OVF are gone, that may free up resources to push the mechanical FPS past 20. Is that even a requirement? I don't know. Electronic should definitely exceed 20, if just to catch up with the M6 II (18 MP 30 FPS electronic crop mode). Yes, the 1 series isn't always the best jn everything. But the first 1 series should demonstrate what the technology allows for in comparison to DSLR in my opinion.



I wonder if the R1 will hit 25fps in EFCS and use a more-than-20 MP sensor, or keep the 20-ish MP and have a global shutter.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 24, 2020)

Oh now this is interesting and should mean a interesting piece of glass is coming out with it, perhaps a 500/4 DO or that rumoured 500/2.8


----------



## Tremotino (Sep 24, 2020)

Cheers!!


----------



## Fbimages (Sep 24, 2020)

CC2937 said:


> Well I will keep my 1DX3 until it arrives but will definitely be preordering it once available!


I’m on the same boat here! Unless the battery performance is not improved by then. I spend a lot of time in cold places and I love being able to not worry too much about battery life


----------



## Tremotino (Sep 24, 2020)

Tidy Media said:


> 2021? Canon... Canon is *******? Anyone?


Canon won't be ******* again after 2020.


----------



## Antono Refa (Sep 24, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> My guess is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
> - Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
> - Unlimited 8k cinema raw
> - 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
> ...



I can see why such a camera would have 4K/60 or 4K/120, I don't see the point of 8K or unlimited recording time.

E.g. for a short event, like pole vault, I can see the point of photographers using the same camera to shoot either stills or a [slow mo] video of the jump. If someone goes in to shoot a video of a 4 x 1500 meters relay (takes 15-20 minutes) or a soccer game, it seems a dedicated video camera would do a better job.

As for 8K, my impression is 4K hasn't become mainstream in broadcast & sold TVs, and the 1 series is about reliability. Staying with the 1D X mkIII's 5.5K seems reasonable. I wouldn't be the least surprised if the R5 got 8K just to test it before the sensor goes into a C series video camera.


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 24, 2020)

Antono Refa said:


> [..] wouldn't be the least surprised if the R5 got 8K just to test it before the sensor goes into a C series video camera.



Not only to test it on the camera side, but also to kickstart the ecosystem around it: editing software, codecs, GPU drivers, etc. Adobe/Blackmagic/Apple should have proper support for '8k' by the time Canon launches an '8k' cine cam.


----------



## iMac (Sep 24, 2020)

I want Canon to produce the R5 before the announcement of the R1.


----------



## Eclipsed (Sep 24, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> ...a fantastic EOS R1 camera body with a whole new set of RF "L" lenses. When the RF "L" lenses are added to the equation, that pro-R camera system really becomes an investment.



I have predicted just this for some time. An engineering intern could work on the rear housing needed to create RF versions of both the 400 iii and 600 iii models. Presumably the 300 f2.8 ii is to be updated with the iii series lightening, and will also be released as an RF. (Canon's data will tell them whether to bother including an EF variant or demountable adapter). RF variants (without optical redesign) of the 200-400 and others might also be done, but lenses that are older than 10 years are more likely to await a real update.

This, perhaps in addition to the rumored 250/250/500 F2/2.8/4 that will do it all for me. (I note that this makes me weigh whether the 250 f2 would be a DO to differentiate.

The real question is whether any of Canon's new big whites will ever be made in EF or if the 400 and 600 were the last.

The "dog that didn't bark" is the lack of Canon releasing any RF versions of existing EF lenses. This tells me they plan plenty of new designs for RF, or a flurry of them for the R1 announcement.

The new lenses might well be announced alongside the R1, imaged surrounded by a forest of new RF big white lenses making the R1 the definitive champ.


----------



## Eclipsed (Sep 24, 2020)

Rocky said:


> _ Here lies DSLR
> RIP
> 1988-2021
> _
> No quite. there is always a delay between the EVF and the lens. While optical view finder in the DSLR will have zero delay. Therefore for action shot and BFI, DSLR is still the first choice before the mirrorless. One exception, Leica M10 and similar. They still have a true optical view finder.



Just because you're still grieving doesn't mean the patient isn't dead.


----------



## Eclipsed (Sep 24, 2020)

peters said:


> Hm what exactly is wrong with using the adapter? So far ALL my EF lenses work perfectly on my R5, even at 20fps with AF =) Its a quite solid build. Also you get internal variable ND filter! (Or just leave the clear glass in the adapter, which adds another layer of protection to the sensor =))



It's an ugly inconvenience at best, and serves well for those who have EF glass. I've posted far and wide and found that no one in the universe has bought a _new_ big white to go only on an RF camera. Canon has the data on this.

An adapter is an insult to a $15,000 lens/camera setup.

Adapters suck, unless there is no other choice. 

But that's just my opinion.


----------



## peters (Sep 24, 2020)

slclick said:


> There is only one hand and this list has no hand. This describes a video centric camera. They might make it mirrorless but they will not make it something other than what the 1 line was intended. I laughed out loud when I read those specs.


What exactly is unrealistic in your opinion? The 1 Series showed some incredible strong video features (actualy the best canon offered in any DSLR). So why wouldnt we expect specs like this in a high end camera that likely wont arrive before winter 2021? The current 1DX II got 6k raw unlimited, why is it unrealistic to expect something a bit better on the next 1 Series camera?


----------



## peters (Sep 24, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> It's an ugly inconvenience at best, and serves well for those who have EF glass. I've posted far and wide and found that no one in the universe has bought a _new_ big white to go only on an RF camera. Canon has the data on this.
> 
> An adapter is an insult to a $15,000 lens/camera setup.
> 
> ...


Thats true, noboy would by a new EF lense for an R body. But the adapter works perfectly fine with exiting EF lenses. I dont see the problem and I use 2 of them every day.
Usualy I also hate adapters, but this is pretty much like a native experience. And the added possibility to use an INTERNAL variable ND Filter is realy awesome! Also other filters are currently produced by third parties - especialy for wide angle lenses like the 11-24 its great to have the option to simply add a filter at the back =)


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 24, 2020)

peters said:


> Thats true, noboy would by a new EF lense for an R body.[..]



So, ehm, I bought an EF 180L last month for my RP. I guess I'm "noboy" now


----------



## Pixel (Sep 24, 2020)

How is it the “obvious” nomenclature when EVERY “pro” camera has been called EOS-1something. 
It’ll be called EOS-1R


----------



## Pixel (Sep 24, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> It's an ugly inconvenience at best, and serves well for those who have EF glass. I've posted far and wide and found that no one in the universe has bought a _new_ big white to go only on an RF camera. Canon has the data on this.
> 
> An adapter is an insult to a $15,000 lens/camera setup.
> 
> ...


In what regard do they suck in your opinion?
I see absolutely no flaws whatsoever other than the extra $50 I had to pay for it.


----------



## derpderp (Sep 24, 2020)

I will accept nothing less than 60mp, 25 fps, 16 stops of DR, 10 stops of stabilisation. This expectation is based on solid youtuber speculation.


----------



## snapshot (Sep 24, 2020)

to me the biggest issue shooting action with the r5 in hs+ mode is tracking the motion while shooting. once the shooting starts the updates to the EVF really slow down. i really like 45mpx because face/eye af works when the head is a small portion of the frame. i will be interested to see what the R1 does to improve tracking and maintain AF on small targets.


----------



## Famateur (Sep 24, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> So, ehm, I bought an EF 180L last month for my RP. I guess I'm "noboy" now



"The new phonebook EF lens is here! The new phonebook EF lens is here!! I'm _somebody nobody _now!!!"


----------



## Famateur (Sep 24, 2020)

Pixel said:


> How is it the “obvious” nomenclature when EVERY “pro” camera has been called EOS-1something.
> It’ll be called EOS-1R



EF Mount 5D >> RF Mount R5
EF Mount 6D >> RF Mount R6

Hence...

EF Mount 1D >> RF Mount R1


----------



## jolyonralph (Sep 24, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> Adapters suck, unless there is no other choice.



There's very little wrong with the Canon adaptors. They fit well without any play, they are weather sealed. They are inexpensive. If you shoot primarily with EF glass you can switch the EF lenses as if your R body was a native EF mount. If you shoot primarily with RF glass but have one or two EF lenses then just stick an adaptor on each and you've pretty much turned them into RF mount lenses.

The only inconvenience (and I speak from great experience of having used my R with multiple RF and EF lenses) is when you have a single adaptor and you want to switch frequently between RF and multiple EF lenses, then you have to mess around.

But if you're buying big white EF lenses to use with an RF camera which is still the only way to get anything >500mm or any fast prime large lens, do yourself a favour and buy an RF-EF adaptor for EACH lens. The cost is insignificant compared to the cost of the lens, and you're going to find it much more convenient.

I have two RF-EF adaptors as I find I rarely need to use more than 2 EF lenses at a time when I go out to shoot.


For me using adaptors is far down my list of irritations about the RF mount family. I'm far more annoyed about the RF rear caps only attaching one way round than I ever am about having to use RF-EF adaptors.


----------



## zim (Sep 24, 2020)

Famateur said:


> EF Mount 5D >> RF Mount R5
> EF Mount 6D >> RF Mount R6
> 
> Hence...
> ...


And prior to DSLR for pro camera it was F1
So R1 is a perfectly reasonable assumption


----------



## Atlasman (Sep 24, 2020)

Famateur said:


> For Canon to include 8K video in the R1, it would require at least a 45MP sensor. That would mean Canon would be reversing course on catering to sports photographers' preference of smaller file size for faster transfer to the agencies they work for. Getting the image to press first is higher priority than being able to crop deeply or print bus-sized images (at least up until now, anyway). Who knows, though -- Canon might have a trick or two up its sleeve for the R1.
> 
> The R1 is way outta my league anyway, so I'm glad I'm not waiting for it. Then again, it might be released by the time my R5 finally arrives!


What if they take the 45mp and down sample to 22.5mp, like they are doing with 4K HQ, that would satisfy those wanting smaller files.


----------



## Danglin52 (Sep 24, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> I have predicted just this for some time. An engineering intern could work on the rear housing needed to create RF versions of both the 400 iii and 600 iii models. Presumably the 300 f2.8 ii is to be updated with the iii series lightening, and will also be released as an RF. (Canon's data will tell them whether to bother including an EF variant or demountable adapter). RF variants (without optical redesign) of the 200-400 and others might also be done, but lenses that are older than 10 years are more likely to await a real update.
> 
> This, perhaps in addition to the rumored 250/250/500 F2/2.8/4 that will do it all for me. (I note that this makes me weigh whether the 250 f2 would be a DO to differentiate.
> 
> ...


I don't see Canon announcing an R1 without a couple of RF big whites. The lenses adapt flawlessly, but they will want to make a splash of a fully baked RF Pro solution.


----------



## Famateur (Sep 24, 2020)

peters said:


> If they include some Kind of S-Raw with half the Resolution this topic would be off the table





Atlasman said:


> What if they take the 45mp and down sample to 22.5mp, like they are doing with 4K HQ, that would satisfy those wanting smaller files.



Valid points, to be sure!

Just makes me wonder why Canon didn't do that with the 1DXIII...


----------



## Atlasman (Sep 24, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Valid points, to be sure!
> 
> Just makes me wonder why Canon didn't do that with the 1DXIII...


End of the line product, wanted to save for R1? Also give the R5 a chance to establish itself.


----------



## Pixel (Sep 24, 2020)

Famateur said:


> EF Mount 5D >> RF Mount R5
> EF Mount 6D >> RF Mount R6
> 
> Hence...
> ...


No.
Bet.


----------



## Czardoom (Sep 24, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> So, ehm, I bought an EF 180L last month for my RP. I guess I'm "noboy" now


Nobody will buy an EF lens for an R camera? Well, I guess I am another nobody.

I would revise the opinion of those who think it impossible...Only smart people will buy EF lenses for their R camera as they a have a lot more choices and will usually pay less. Of course, we aren't all gear-heads who have to have the latest and greatest to impress their friends. Some of us actually take photos - and the EF lenses with adapter work just fine.


----------



## BeenThere (Sep 24, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Nobody will buy an EF lens for an R camera? Well, I guess I am another nobody.
> 
> I would revise the opinion of those who think it impossible...Only smart people will buy EF lenses for their R camera as they a have a lot more choices and will usually pay less. Of course, we aren't all gear-heads who have to have the latest and greatest to impress their friends. Some of us actually take photos - and the EF lenses with adapter work just fine.


And some landscape photogs will use the EF in preference to RF for the ability to use drop-in ND and cir polarized filters in an adapter. I plan to keep my EF lenses for that reason. Color me impressed with Breakthrough’s X4 neutrality across the spectrum.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2020)

I think it's telling that people are having difficulty predicting a new feature for the R1 that isn't already in the R5. I see lots of video specs, heat control, ports, etc., but nobody is indicating they want to see better-specced core functions.

My list:

~45 megapixels (needed for 8K video)
8K video
Deliberate heat dissipation to allow for non-limited, high-bitrate video recording
Video without time limits during internal recording
Dual CFexpress cards
Full, 14-bit stills in high frame rate modes
Thunderbolt 3, 40 Mbits/sec throughput
IBIS
~10 megadot viewfinder operating at 120 frames per second
Anti-flicker shooting reduces frame rate less (10 fps rather than 6 fps)
Highest frame rates capable even with low battery
Only high frame rate with low battery one and the one about Thunderbolt are novel to this discussion.

Still, with this list, I don't think it'd move me to upgrade from the R5 for an additional $1-2k. Makes me think that Canon has something more up its sleeve. I sense something really big we're not seeing.


----------



## Eclipsed (Sep 24, 2020)

peters said:


> Thats true, noboy would by a new EF lense for an R body. But the adapter works perfectly fine with exiting EF lenses. I dont see the problem and I use 2 of them every day.
> Usualy I also hate adapters, but this is pretty much like a native experience. And the added possibility to use an INTERNAL variable ND Filter is realy awesome! Also other filters are currently produced by third parties - especialy for wide angle lenses like the 11-24 its great to have the option to simply add a filter at the back =)


I agree. I have the 11-24 (but use a control ring adapter). I consider a good adapter to be one dedicated to the lens, at least for the session. I'd welcome a mod or alternative that made adapters hard (or impossible) to remove from a lens unless detached from the body.


----------



## Eclipsed (Sep 24, 2020)

Pixel said:


> In what regard do they suck in your opinion?
> I see absolutely no flaws whatsoever other than the extra $50 I had to pay for it.


You might have missed where I wrote "ugly inconvenience."


----------



## Eclipsed (Sep 24, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Nobody will buy an EF lens for an R camera? Well, I guess I am another nobody.
> 
> I would revise the opinion of those who think it impossible...Only smart people will buy EF lenses for their R camera as they a have a lot more choices and will usually pay less. Of course, we aren't all gear-heads who have to have the latest and greatest to impress their friends. Some of us actually take photos - and the EF lenses with adapter work just fine.



Nobody will buy a NEW EF Big White who owns only an R body.

(Crickets)


----------



## vangelismm (Sep 24, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> ~45 megapixels (needed for 8K video)



35MP in fact.


----------



## usern4cr (Sep 24, 2020)

It will be interesting to see what the R1 has vs. the R5s (or whatever the higher res version is called). I hope to get a 2nd body to go with my R5, and it will be fun to see which of those 2 bodies is best for me.

I also assume that there will be a lot of big white RF lenses announced with the R1. I've never had such big lenses, so I'll be curious if they come out with some that are light enough for me (a non-professional) to consider getting.


----------



## Joules (Sep 24, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> 35MP in fact.


But stills aren't shot in 16:9 so you need a higher resolution sensor so you can have a 8K resoultion once you crop the top and bottom off.


----------



## AlanF (Sep 24, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> It's an ugly inconvenience at best, and serves well for those who have EF glass. I've posted far and wide and found that no one in the universe has bought a _new_ big white to go only on an RF camera. Canon has the data on this.
> 
> An adapter is an insult to a $15,000 lens/camera setup.
> 
> ...


Some opinions are best kept to oneself.


----------



## Chig (Sep 24, 2020)

zim said:


> And prior to DSLR for pro camera it was F1
> So R1 is a perfectly reasonable assumption


Prior to DSLR ,Canon’s pro SLR was the EOS-1 , then EOS-1N , and lastly EOS-1V
Prior to EOS cameras , there was the Canon F1 but this wasn’t really a pro camera as the EOS-1 was their first ever pro camera which they launched to take on Nikon and eventually they dominated the pro market especially for pro sports photographers


----------



## Chig (Sep 24, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I think it's telling that people are having difficulty predicting a new feature for the R1 that isn't already in the R5. I see lots of video specs, heat control, ports, etc., but nobody is indicating they want to see better-specced core functions.
> 
> My list:
> 
> ...


I don’t understand why the fps drops with low battery charge on the R5 - my old 7D2 shoots 10fps all day until the battery dies
Why not allow the full 12fps until the battery dies ? Easy to carry spare batteries and if you can afford an R5 the cost of the batteries is not an issue 
This is purely a firmware issue as the hardware must be able to cope surely so Canon should be able to sort this out with a firmware update


----------



## Joules (Sep 24, 2020)

Chig said:


> I don’t understand why the fps drops with low battery charge on the R5 - my old 7D2 shoots 10fps all day until the battery dies
> Why not allow the full 12fps until the battery dies ? Easy to carry spare batteries and if you can afford an R5 the cost of the batteries is not an issue
> This is purely a firmware issue as the hardware must be able to cope surely


Voltages drop as the battery capacity decreases. The R5 and R6 have full frame shutters, which have more mass and need to travel further for each image than the one in the 7D. I am not certain of the exact challenges that prevent the high FPS mode to be used at lower capacities. But I don't think it had anything to do with Canon withholding features or preserving battery life.


----------



## marathonman (Sep 24, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> Nobody will buy a NEW EF Big White who owns only an R body.
> 
> (Crickets)


So what do you buy today, if you don't currently have a big white and want one to go with your R5?
Just checked B&H and when you search for: 

RF300 - you get Sony Optical Fiber broadcast camera (no longer available)
or
RF400 - Sony Wireless Over Ear headphones
and 
RF500 - QOMO Radio Frequency Receiver.

Not sure I can shoot night-time soccer with Rf600 or RF800 and f11.....

Please advise as my check book is open and pen is quivering.....


----------



## Chig (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> Voltages drop as the battery capacity decreases. The R5 and R6 have full frame shutters, which have more mass and need to travel further for each image than the one in the 7D. I am not certain of the exact challenges that prevent the high FPS mode to be used at lower capacities. But I don't think it had anything to do with Canon withholding features or preserving battery life.


Does the 1DXiii slow down as the battery charge drops ?
Pretty sure it just keeps going at 16fps
Sounds unlikely to me


----------



## Joules (Sep 24, 2020)

Chig said:


> Does the 1DXiii slow down as the battery charge drops ?
> Sounds unlikely to me


The 1DX III doesn't use the LP-E6N Batteries that are found in the R5 and R6. So even if it doesn't slow down, you can't really compare it to the lower tier R5.


----------



## Chig (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> The 1DX III doesn't use the LP-E6N Batteries that are found in the R5 and R6. So even if it doesn't slow down, you can't really compare it to the lower tier R5.


Both batteries are exactly the same voltage with slightly higher storage so the LP-E6NH batteries last slightly longer but the voltage doesn’t changes 7.2 volts for all versions of the LP-E6


----------



## AlanF (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> The 1DX III doesn't use the LP-E6N Batteries that are found in the R5 and R6. So even if it doesn't slow down, you can't really compare it to the lower tier R5.


Similarly, the Nikon D850 needs the D series batteries in a grip to fire at a higher frame rate as their equivalent of the LP-E6 isn't up to it whereas it will power the APS-C version.


----------



## Bishop80 (Sep 24, 2020)

I shoot a lot of sports, and there's no substitute for the great full-frame optical viewfinder. But one of my gripes with the 1D X Mark III (and all predecessors) is the small AF area coverage for viewfinder shooting. So the subject has to enter a good ways into the frame before AF can latch on. 
Switch to Live View shooting, and you get 100% coverage Vertical/90% Horizontal.

Viewfinder AF Area:


Live View AF Area:




For shots where you want the player's full height head to toe to fill the frame, their head (the desired AF point) can be outside of the Viewfinder AF area, so you get focus lock on the torso/shoulder instead.

Consequently, I occasionally switch to live view to get the player's heads entering the left or right edge of view; camera locks on.
But I really dislike looking at the rear LCD to cover action (my eyes can't focus that close anymore anyway  ).

So from this perspective alone, I think an EOS-1D R, if it has a great _fast _viewfinder, would be a good compromise as I would expect it to retain 90%+ AF Area coverage.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 24, 2020)

An ideal R1 for me:

24 MP
Dual CF Express
20 FPS mechanical and Electrical(perhaps rolling shutter free)
1 series battery
Pre-gripped
No focus on video, there is a C70 in the same price range now with much better video bits and bobs on it
Faster AF than R5 (Dual Digic X perhaps)
TB3/USB-C. TB3 might be impossible due to the size of the controller
2.5 or 10 Gb Ethernet for tethering when I am doing product shots right into Capture One
No AA filter or close like the 1DXIII
A RF 500mm f/4.0 - f/5.6 prime to shove on it on day one, preferably of the DO variety.
14 bit RAW even at 20FPS mechanical
Under £7000


----------



## Joules (Sep 24, 2020)

Chig said:


> Both batteries are exactly the same voltage with slightly higher storage so the LP-E6N batteries last slightly longer but the voltage doesn’t change


I don't know what you want to hear. You seem to Imply Canon is holding something back. I pointed out how batteries work and that the 1DX III uses a different battery, the 7D series a less demanding shutter. If you don't like these explanations, so be it. They are likely not the complete answer but are definitely factors that play a role in the FPS. Don't you think so?


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 24, 2020)

Just on the battery thing. Unless I am mistaken the higher voltage 1d series batteries let the big primes focus faster still?


----------



## Chig (Sep 24, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Just on the battery thing. Unless I am mistaken the higher voltage 1d series batteries let the big primes focus faster still?


The 1D series have a 10.8 volt battery vs 7.2 volt for the R5 , etc so I doubt the lens motors run off the full battery voltage and are stepped down to perhaps 5 volts as supplying different voltages to a motor could cause major issues so I suspect Canon uses the same voltage output from bodies to lenses regardless of the battery voltage


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chig said:


> The 1D series have a 10.8 volt battery vs 7.2 volt for the R5 , etc so I doubt the lens motors run off the full battery voltage and are stepped down to perhaps 5 volts but perhaps you’re right



It was a advertised thing in older 1d bodies for sure, I just don't know if it still does anything.


----------



## Chig (Sep 24, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> It was a advertised thing in older 1d bodies for sure, I just don't know if it still does anything.


I think with the older 1D bodies you got a higher fps with the battery grips but doesn’t necessarily mean the lenses voltage varied
The eos lenses are all completely compatible with every eos body from 1987’s eos 620/650 slr to the latest rebels and 1DXs so I think Canon would have used a standard input voltage supply for every lens and every body output voltage as otherwise could cause reliability issues


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 24, 2020)

Chig said:


> I think with the older 1D bodies you got a higher fps with the battery grips but doesn’t necessarily mean the lenses voltage varied
> The eos lenses are all completely compatible with every eos body from 1987’s eos 620/650 slr to the latest rebels and 1DXs so I think Canon would have used a standard input voltage supply for every lens and every body output voltage as otherwise could cause reliability issues



From Chuck Westfall… “In addition, the EOS-1D X achieves a higher lens motor drive speed with select L-series USM telephoto lenses than the 5D Mark III because of the 1D X’s more powerful battery pack.”




Arash Hazeghi's interview with Chuck Westfall


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 24, 2020)

Antono Refa said:


> I can see why such a camera would have 4K/60 or 4K/120, I don't see the point of 8K or unlimited recording time.
> 
> E.g. for a short event, like pole vault, I can see the point of photographers using the same camera to shoot either stills or a [slow mo] video of the jump. If someone goes in to shoot a video of a 4 x 1500 meters relay (takes 15-20 minutes) or a soccer game, it seems a dedicated video camera would do a better job.
> 
> As for 8K, my impression is 4K hasn't become mainstream in broadcast & sold TVs, and the 1 series is about reliability. Staying with the 1D X mkIII's 5.5K seems reasonable. I wouldn't be the least surprised if the R5 got 8K just to test it before the sensor goes into a C series video camera.


I concur for the 8K... but it is technically feasible and the R5 has set the bar excepting thermal limitations. All depends on the sensor's capabilities (mp/read speed) as the R5 /Digic X can already process and record it.


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 24, 2020)

Joules said:


> I couldn't find a post that pointed this out already. But:
> 
> The 1R won't get a downgrade in mechanical shutter performance. The 1DX III already manages 20 FPS mechanical, not just electronic.
> 
> Canon somehow managed to get a huge jump in performance for their most recent shutters (the 1DX III is fast, and both the R5 and R6 are way faster and way more durable than the 5D IV). Once the cost for the entire mirror assembly, extra AF and metering sensors and OVF are gone, that may free up resources to push the mechanical FPS past 20. Is that even a requirement? I don't know. Electronic should definitely exceed 20, if just to catch up with the M6 II (18 MP 30 FPS electronic crop mode). Yes, the 1 series isn't always the best jn everything. But the first 1 series should demonstrate what the technology allows for in comparison to DSLR in my opinion.


Apologies, you are correct. I was thinking of the 1DXii. 1DXiii has 20fps mechanical via liveview (16fps via OVF). It looks like anti-flicker is not possible with liveview shooting. That would need to be fixed for a R1. I have edited my previous post
Reading the manual, it talks about overheating when using liveview and how the camera will automatically switch off liveview to enable cooling down. No times are mentioned for liveview shooting limits or cool down times.

For electronic shooting speed, 30fps (8k30 33 mp frame grab jpegs) has been seen to be useful. It isn't clear if the Digic X bus etc could support 45mp/30fps though but certain CFe cards can handle the write speeds.


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## Eclipsed (Sep 25, 2020)

marathonman said:


> So what do you buy today, if you don't currently have a big white and want one to go with your R5?
> Just checked B&H and when you search for:
> 
> RF300 - you get Sony Optical Fiber broadcast camera (no longer available)
> ...


In the preposterously unlikely event you are a pro with a pressing need and don’t have a DSLR, yet must shoot mirrorless, you buy or rent a USED lens that requires an adapter and wait for something that actually works with your mirrorless camera. 

The crickets confirm it. No one buys a new big white solely to mount with an adapter.


----------



## Eclipsed (Sep 25, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Some opinions are best kept to oneself.


You present compelling evidence right there.


----------



## zim (Sep 25, 2020)

Chig said:


> Prior to DSLR ,Canon’s pro SLR was the EOS-1 , then EOS-1N , and lastly EOS-1V
> Prior to EOS cameras , there was the Canon F1 but this wasn’t really a pro camera as the EOS-1 was their first ever pro camera which they launched to take on Nikon and eventually they dominated the pro market especially for pro sports photographers


Bollocks the F1 and F1n's were pro cameras but you're quite correct about the eos 1s i was really commenting with reference to the idea that R1 didn't fit historically


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## privatebydesign (Sep 25, 2020)

zim said:


> Bollocks the F1 and F1n's were pro cameras but you're quite correct about the eos 1s i was really commenting with reference to the idea that R1 didn't fit historically


My F-1 and F-1N were both pro cameras  

Way more than the A-1 or T-90. I didn't like the EOS 1 nor the 1N, but I did like my 1VHS's and still have one.


----------



## TAF (Sep 26, 2020)

amorse said:


> I think the most curious thing about this rumour is the suggestion that it will not have the 1DXIII's sensor. I mean, the 1DXIII's sensor will be less than 2 years old at the launch of this hypothetical camera, can already support very high resolution video output, has limited rolling shutter (I think), and compares well to any other sensor on the market.
> 
> Using a new sensor this soon seems uncharacteristic of Canon's past decisions, so I'm wondering if this sensor is going to really drive into some new technology opportunity - maybe improved low light AF sensitivity, or a global shutter. Off chance of resolution increase (?), but I doubt it.
> 
> I just can't help but wonder about what technological advance justified not using a very capable sensor already available, when they have done that in the past. Or who knows, maybe they'll throw the formula out the window and put in the R5 sensor - it certainly seems to be able to keep up with speed despite the resolution bump.



Maybe we’ll finally see a stacked (in the Foveon sense of the word) sensor. So 60mp, but really 20mp x 3 colors.


----------



## TAF (Sep 26, 2020)

Chig said:


> Prior to DSLR ,Canon’s pro SLR was the EOS-1 , then EOS-1N , and lastly EOS-1V
> Prior to EOS cameras , there was the Canon F1 but this wasn’t really a pro camera as the EOS-1 was their first ever pro camera which they launched to take on Nikon and eventually they dominated the pro market especially for pro sports photographers



You are showing your lack of age. The Canon F-1 was the pro camera that faced off against the Nikon F, and really put Canon on the map for sports photography.

And pre-date the EOS by many years.

Film, of course.


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## zim (Sep 26, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> My F-1 and F-1N were both pro cameras
> 
> Way more than the A-1 or T-90. I didn't like the EOS 1 nor the 1N, but I did like my 1VHS's and still have one.
> 
> View attachment 192996



Ooooh i am so jealous of that clean AE Finder FN I've just got the standard as i didn't need auto apature at the time, was doing a lot of manual flash.
In a fit of nostalgia a few years ago dug it out and put some film in, that set me on the road to wanting that finder but it seems almost impossible to find one in good nick that isn't a silly price for just a whim.
The A-1 was an incredible camera for it's day trounced the basic F1n spec sheet wise but i agree it wasn't a pro camera, not robust enough well certainly not for the kind of environments i was working in at the time. With all this lust for new tech nowadays it's funny thinking back to Canons ten year promise.... oh dear I'm starting to get nostalgia pangs again which is never good and am getting rather OT!
anyway thanks for posting and the pic of those two beauties


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## zim (Sep 26, 2020)

TAF said:


> You are showing your lack of age. The Canon F-1 was the pro camera that faced off against the Nikon F, and really put Canon on the map for sports photography.
> 
> And pre-date the EOS by many years.
> 
> Film, of course.


The F2 photonic so ugly it was beautiful! Always had a hankering for that camera


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## Pixel (Sep 26, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> You might have missed where I wrote "ugly inconvenience."


The adaptor never comes off of my R5...I fail to be bothered by any ugly inconvenience.


----------



## Chig (Sep 26, 2020)

TAF said:


> You are showing your lack of age. The Canon F-1 was the pro camera that faced off against the Nikon F, and really put Canon on the map for sports photography.
> 
> And pre-date the EOS by many years.
> 
> Film, of course.


Well no Nikon was totally dominant in the pro market until Canon targeted them with their pro Eos lenses like the EF300 f/2.8 , EF50 f/1.0 and their first competitive pro camera the EOS 1n

Their older F-1 wasn't considered a pro camera by the professionals and the whole EOS system with the first decent autofocus system won the pros over to the point where nearly all pro sports photographers use Canon

I'm well aware of the history of camera gear (I'm 58) and the way Canon carefully planned their way to the top of the pro market with reliable quality gear , outstanding performance and the best customer service of any camera company


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## Sporgon (Sep 26, 2020)

Chig said:


> Well no Nikon was totally dominant in the pro market until Canon targeted them with their pro Eos lenses like the EF300 f/2.8 , EF50 f/1.0 and their first competitive pro camera the EOS 1n
> 
> Their older F-1 wasn't considered a pro camera by the professionals and the whole EOS system with the first decent autofocus system won the pros over to the point where nearly all pro sports photographers use Canon



I think what you mean to say is:
" Their older F-1 wasn't considered a pro camera by the professionals who were using Nikon" 

Going back to the '70s and early '80s you couldn't get a more "pro" 35mm camera system than the F-1 was part of, but numbers in use were much smaller than the Nikon F2 & later F3. The Pentax LX was another "professional capable " system in the '80s but even Pentax at the time admitted that they only sold a handful.


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## the1trueluigi (Sep 26, 2020)

_...aaaaaaaand I JUST got my iDXMKiii a month ago...of course....welp...time to start saving again. _


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 26, 2020)

Every year that they delay the Olympics we will see another camera. And, since it will be broadcast in 8K, it makes sense that a new flagship will do 8K. Sony was not able to put out a 8K camera because of the parts shortages needed for the sensor but expect it on upcoming models. It doesn't matter if you need it or not, it sells cameras as Canon has found out.


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## Rocky (Sep 26, 2020)

Hasselbrad, Rollieflex and Leica were used by professional ( except the sports). I am not aware there is any claim as proffessional camera.


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## usern4cr (Sep 26, 2020)

I have a suggestion:

Before you ask about the camera, ask about the photographer - "Do they make appreciable money with this?"
If "Yes" then they are a "Professional Photographer", and whatever camera they use is a "Professionals' Camera" for them.
If "No" then they are a "Consumer Photographer", and whatever camera they use is a "Consumers' Camera" for them.

Now, those cameras used most by "Professional Photographers" can be considered a "Professional-Preferred Camera", and those cameras used most by "Consumer Photographers" can be considered a "Consumer-Preferred Camera".


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## CC2937 (Sep 26, 2020)

Bishop80 said:


> I shoot a lot of sports, and there's no substitute for the great full-frame optical viewfinder. But one of my gripes with the 1D X Mark III (and all predecessors) is the small AF area coverage for viewfinder shooting. So the subject has to enter a good ways into the frame before AF can latch on.
> Switch to Live View shooting, and you get 100% coverage Vertical/90% Horizontal.
> 
> Viewfinder AF Area:
> ...


But I use a hoodman and it works brilliantly to accomplish just what you are saying. I also use the smart controller to designate the start point when in auto point selection modes and it is impressive.


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## degos (Sep 27, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If "Yes" then they are a "Professional Photographer", and whatever camera they use is a "Professionals' Camera" for the



Well a tradesman could use a dollar store hammer for a couple of jobs, but it's not going to last long


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## gmon750 (Sep 27, 2020)

I was all ready to jump into the R5 bandwagon and retire my 5Dm3. But COVID, the delay of R5 inventory, v1.0 has me pushing and waiting to see what 2021 will being. I would use it primarily for underwater photography and considering how much the housings cost for these beasts, I don’t mind waiting just to be sure.


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## Methodical (Sep 27, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Same here. I sold my EF 200-400 (weight more than migration to R5) and 1dx II prior to the R5 announcement based on the “mirrorless“ performance of the 1dx III (Jared P. review). I felt it showed where Canon was headed and what we could expect in an R5 and beyond. I received one of the first shipments of the R5 at the end of July and very happy with my decision. I was going to buy a second R5 for backup, but I may hold off until I have clarity on the pro + Canon. I don’t really need another high-end body until an Africa trip late 2021. My preference would be a body similar in size to an R5 + grip, although I am sure it would need to be a little larger.



I'm waiting for my R5...hoping to have it before the Eagle season gets hot. I will have to wait to see what it can do with sports photography.

Some folks will take a big hit if (when) this new body arrives and they decide to sell their 1DX3, but some folks will be very giddy at the same time. The introduction of the R5 is the first time I've been this excited about a non-1D camera body. I just wish they make the new body without all of that video stuff. I know it won't happen, but that's my wish.


----------



## tpatana (Sep 27, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Every year that they delay the Olympics we will see another camera. And, since it will be broadcast in 8K, it makes sense that a new flagship will do 8K. Sony was not able to put out a 8K camera because of the parts shortages needed for the sensor but expect it on upcoming models. It doesn't matter if you need it or not, it sells cameras as Canon has found out.



I think fps is more important than 8k, so having some ~30Mpix sensor and ~30fps would be more important than 8k and [email protected]

Of course, if they can do both, even better. I just don't think there's benefit for Canon to make the flagship sports camera be potentially slowed down by video specs requiring unnecessary high resolution.

Make it shoot 4k240 an I'm drooling. Or even 1080p240. I'm really hoping R5 FW update would add that.


----------



## Methodical (Sep 28, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Nobody will buy an EF lens for an R camera? Well, I guess I am another nobody.
> 
> I would revise the opinion of those who think it impossible...Only smart people will buy EF lenses for their R camera as they a have a lot more choices and will usually pay less. Of course, we aren't all gear-heads who have to have the latest and greatest to impress their friends. Some of us actually take photos - and the EF lenses with adapter work just fine.



Say it again.


----------



## Methodical (Sep 28, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> Nobody will buy a NEW EF Big White who owns only an R body.
> 
> (Crickets)



I think this is why they will still buy them...the RF lenses will be too expensive for some, while the EF lenses will be more attractive price wise, plus the EF lenses still produce beautiful images. I personally would not spend money to upgrade from my 600II to the 600III knowing the RF600 will eventually arrive, but someone who doesn't already have a 600 may upgrade to EF version when the RF version arrives and folks start selling the EF versions...you know the folks that has to have the latest and greatest.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

tomislavmoze said:


> Actually there are some benefits of a good video hybrid for the market the 1d series is made for, photojournalism being the one of them where more and more photographers do video and photo, also the ability screen grab which is also really usable for photo assignments.



A higher percentage of the fewer and fewer remaining full-time photojournalists do video. I wouldn't exactly say more and more photojournalists are doing anything, because every week it seems I hear of another of my PJ friends' jobs being eliminated. PJs are no longer the #1 buyers of 1-Series class cameras.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

H. Jones said:


> Flicker reduction has to be 10+ FPS, ideally they would implement the shutter finetuning of the Sony A9 which allows you to adjust shutter speed on such a micro level you can avoid flicker even in electronic 20 fps shutter. I love my R5, but it's not great for night sports when flicker reduction is limited to a pitiful 6 fps, but that's to be expected of a 5D level camera.
> 
> I'd also like to see an absolute minimum of 16 FPS in 14 bit, which is what the 1DX mark II was always able to pull off all those years ago.



What? The R5 slows down to 6 fps with flicker reduction turned on? Say it ain't so, Joe!

The 1D X Mark II only did 16 fps in mirror lockup mode with no AF tracking between frames. That freed up a LOT of processing cycles that were used for image processing instead.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> I wondered, after the R5 overheating issues, if the R1 was not in the works yet because of thermal issues. I think these typically get a dual Digic set up, and if one of those bad boys is throwing lots of heat imagine 2.... That's not to say they wouldn't just do a single next gen Digic, but it was just my thought that the processing required for an R1 series could be a limiting issue at the moment.
> 
> The larger body with built in grip could give them some opportunities though for heat dissipation ideas.
> 
> ...



It seems more and more like the most significant source of the heat problem in the R5 are the CFExpress cards, rather than the DiG!C X processor. 

By the way, the 1D X Mark III only has a single DiG!C X processor, which is so many times more powerful than both dual DiG!C 6+ processors combined in the 1D X Mark II it's not even funny.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Methodical said:


> This is why I did not consider the 1DX3. I knew this probably was a peak into the future mirrorless 1D body and Canon trying to get that last money grab for the 1D Dslr body.
> 
> They should name the new body EOS 1DR to distinguish it from the previous generation 1D camera, like they did going from the 1D4 to the 1DX.





navastronia said:


> I think "R1," on its own, sounds more graceful.



I like R1 D.

Then the next one can be the R2 D. 

Then a minor revision of that one can be the R2 D2!


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> The list is a hybrid between current 1DXiii specs and R5 specs.
> It describes an excellent stills machine from R5 and improves on video capabilities from R5 (mostly thermal) with a new sensor.
> Dual processors have been the case with 1DX ii and there is space for 2 processors in a 1D body
> Dual Digic X would provide the horsepower for
> ...



The processing power of a single DiG!C X (which is what the 1D X Mark III has -a single DiG!C X processor) dwarfs the combined power of the Dual DiG!C6+ processors in the 1D X Mark II. 

Yes, there are other independent processors for things like AF and metering in the 1D X Mark III, but that is no different from the 1D X Mark II, 5D Mark IV, 1D X, and 5D Mark III which also had such independent processors in addition to the main DiG!C image processing chips.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Chig said:


> Well 50% larger body size and 2 Digic X processors writing to 2 cf express cards makes it a lot easier to manage heat



The 1D X Mark III has a single DiG!C X processor. It's still has an insane level of processing power compared to the dual DiG!C 6+ processors of the 1D X Mark II.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

degos said:


> Plenty of working photographers still using the 1DX and 1DX2. Just because they make money doesn't mean they want to piss it away on upgrades.
> 
> They'll keep using those bodies until they finally fail or they get a really compelling trade-in offer.



Or their jobs disappear.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Pixel said:


> How is it the “obvious” nomenclature when EVERY “pro” camera has been called EOS-1something.
> It’ll be called EOS-1R



Nah, all of the film bodies were the EOS-1something.

The digital bodies have been the EOS 1Dsomething.

All of the RF bodies so far have been the EOS Rsomething, even though all of their DSLR predecessors were EOS somethingD.

The new 1-series camera will be the EOS R1.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Valid points, to be sure!
> 
> Just makes me wonder why Canon didn't do that with the 1DXIII...



Canon has not had any M-Raw or S-Raw modes in any of the cameras with .CR3 raw files and the C-Raw option.

It seems they assume the only reason for using M-Raw or S-Raw was to save storage space.

Of course there are still quite a number of output resolution options in JPEG. Maybe HEIF as well, I haven't really looked as file size isn't that big a deal for what I do.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> I don't see Canon announcing an R1 without a couple of RF big whites. The lenses adapt flawlessly, but they will want to make a splash of a fully baked RF Pro solution.



They will be the next generation 300/2.8 and 500/4 that were not updated when the 400/2.8 IS III and 600/4 IS III came out in 2018.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Some opinions are best kept to oneself.



Opinions are famously like some other things. Everyone has them. That doesn't mean one should feel obliged to reveal them to everyone else.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Chig said:


> I don’t understand why the fps drops with low battery charge on the R5 - my old 7D2 shoots 10fps all day until the battery dies
> Why not allow the full 12fps until the battery dies ? Easy to carry spare batteries and if you can afford an R5 the cost of the batteries is not an issue
> This is purely a firmware issue as the hardware must be able to cope surely so Canon should be able to sort this out with a firmware update





Joules said:


> Voltages drop as the battery capacity decreases. The R5 and R6 have full frame shutters, which have more mass and need to travel further for each image than the one in the 7D. I am not certain of the exact challenges that prevent the high FPS mode to be used at lower capacities. But I don't think it had anything to do with Canon withholding features or preserving battery life.



What Joules said.

Additionally, the 1D X series (all three of them) use three cell Li-Ion batteries rated at 10.8V, whereas the 7D Mark II uses two cell Li-Ion batteries rated at 7.2V.

So the 7D Mark II is already running at two-thirds the voltage of the 1D X series. If the 7D Mark II had a 10.8V battery, it could probably go faster with a full charge than it does with a 7.2V battery at full charge. Most of us who use 7D Mark II bodies for that many frames also use a grip with two 7.2V batteries in them. Perhaps at some point when the voltage starts to drop the camera can draw some power from both batteries to keep the nominal voltage at 7.2V?


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Chig said:


> Both batteries are exactly the same voltage with slightly higher storage so the LP-E6NH batteries last slightly longer but the voltage doesn’t changes 7.2 volts for all versions of the LP-E6



And the LP-E19 (and previous LP-E4 that are backwards/forward compatible) run at 10.8V. 

But all of those voltages are nominal at full charge. As they are used the voltage begins to drop. By the time they are down to 10% or so, the 7.2V batteries are probably only outputting around 6 volts.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> An ideal R1 for me:
> 
> 24 MP
> Dual CF Express
> ...



AF processing has not been done on the DiG!C chip(s) in any of the 1D X series bodies. Nor the 7D Mark II, 5D Mark III, and IV, for that matter.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Chig said:


> Well no Nikon was totally dominant in the pro market until Canon targeted them with their pro Eos lenses like the EF300 f/2.8 , EF50 f/1.0 and their first competitive pro camera the EOS 1n
> 
> Their older F-1 wasn't considered a pro camera by the professionals and the whole EOS system with the first decent autofocus system won the pros over to the point where nearly all pro sports photographers use Canon
> 
> I'm well aware of the history of camera gear (I'm 58) and the way Canon carefully planned their way to the top of the pro market with reliable quality gear , outstanding performance and the best customer service of any camera company



It was USM AF which was enabled by the all-electronic interface between the camera body and the lens that put Canon ahead of Nikon. Specifically, it was the original EF 300mm f/2.8L USM introduced in November 1987.

In 1987 when Canon introduced the EOS system, over 75% of professionals shooting in the 135 format used Nikon. Having said that, there were plenty of pros in the remaining 25% who shot Canon F-1s. There were certainly pro-grade accessories available for the F-1, such as high speed motor drives , as compared to consumer level lower speed power winders, and high capacity film magazines that could hold as much as 35 feet (250 frames) of bulk film.




A scant five years later, in 1992, Canon had overtaken Nikon as the #1 camera used by working pros who shot 135 - there were still a ton of pros using 645 or larger format film.


----------



## Joules (Sep 28, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> AF processing has not been done on the DiG!C chip(s) in any of the 1D X series bodies. Nor the 7D Mark II, 5D Mark III, and IV, for that matter.


What exactly do you mean by this? To quote from the official 1DX III white paper, detailing the enhancements the Digic X processor has over previous iterations:

"Dedicated sections (“blocks”) of the processor for specific Dual Pixel CMOS AF tasks, and for subject detection (including the new Head Detection AF, and AF tracking capabilities for both viewfinder and Live View shooting)" 

This sounds very much like AF processing is a responsibility of the Digic main processor in n the 1DX III. In fact, I guess it does handle the majority of this task, in light of the R6 and R5 AF performance, neither of which has the second processor as far as I can tell.


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 28, 2020)

Joules said:


> What exactly do you mean by this? To quote from the official 1DX III white paper, detailing the enhancements the Digic X processor has over previous iterations:
> 
> "Dedicated sections (“blocks”) of the processor for specific Dual Pixel CMOS AF tasks, and for subject detection (including the new Head Detection AF, and AF tracking capabilities for both viewfinder and Live View shooting)"
> 
> This sounds very much like AF processing is a responsibility of the Digic main processor in n the 1DX III. In fact, I guess it does handle the majority of this task, in light of the R6 and R5 AF performance, neither of which has the second processor as far as I can tell.



From what I've understood there are 2 scenarios for the 1dx3:

Using the OVF, AF is using a separate sensor coupled to a Digic 8 for processing
Using liveview, AF is done on the main sensor by the Digic X
What I can't find right now is what kind of 'processing' the digic 8 does, it could be just AE, actual AF, including the 'deep learning helmet' is done on the digic X. DPreview says "There's also now a dedicated Digic 8 processor for autofocus and metering through the viewfinder." in their coverage of the announcement.


----------



## Michael Clark (Sep 28, 2020)

Joules said:


> What exactly do you mean by this? To quote from the official 1DX III white paper, detailing the enhancements the Digic X processor has over previous iterations:
> 
> "Dedicated sections (“blocks”) of the processor for specific Dual Pixel CMOS AF tasks, and for subject detection (including the new Head Detection AF, and AF tracking capabilities for both viewfinder and Live View shooting)"
> 
> This sounds very much like AF processing is a responsibility of the Digic main processor in n the 1DX III. In fact, I guess it does handle the majority of this task, in light of the R6 and R5 AF performance, neither of which has the second processor as far as I can tell.



Okay, so the DiG!C X cameras do main sensor based AF processing on the DiG!C chip. All of the previous DSLR cameras I listed had separate processors for (at least) viewfinder based AF, as does the 1D X Mark III when using the OVF based AF system.


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## tpatana (Sep 28, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> And the LP-E19 (and previous LP-E4 that are backwards/forward compatible) run at 10.8V.
> 
> But all of those voltages are nominal at full charge. As they are used the voltage begins to drop. By the time they are down to 10% or so, the 7.2V batteries are probably only outputting around 6 volts.



What I know from cell phone batteries, full-full is 4.2V and typical full is 4.1V. Nominal/rated is the 3.6V and shut-down is usually around 3.1-3.2V, maybe down to 3V if adventurous. Those camera batteries have 2 in series, or 3 for 1DX.

So from those,

normal full (>95%) is 8.2V / 12.3V
nominal is 7.2V / 10.8V (about 80% down to 20% is fairly close to this voltage)
Shut down (<10%) is around 6.2V / 9.3V.


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## David - Sydney (Sep 28, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> The processing power of a single DiG!C X (which is what the 1D X Mark III has -a single DiG!C X processor) dwarfs the combined power of the Dual DiG!C6+ processors in the 1D X Mark II.
> Yes, there are other independent processors for things like AF and metering in the 1D X Mark III, but that is no different from the 1D X Mark II, 5D Mark IV, 1D X, and 5D Mark III which also had such independent processors in addition to the main DiG!C image processing chips.


The current processing power of the Digic X is substantial but also a single hot spot performing all operations. The 1DXiii has more space for thermal dissipation that the R5 so no overheating issues. In liveview/mirrorless, all the functions are done centrally whereas in OVF mode they can be separated ie the other AF/metering chips are physically separated in the 1DXiii/5Div etc but they are all combined into the Digix X chip for R5

For my proposed R1 specs, there needs to be more processing power than what the R5 can currently do. My proposal is to have 2 x Digic X processors. The power may not need to be twice the max speed so the 2 processors could have a slower clock speed or parallel process in a way that the individual max temp is lower and that the heat is spread out physically to 2 areas in the body.


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## StevenA (Sep 29, 2020)

So is the title of this thread accurate? We're going to get a mirrorless version of the 1dxMiii? Sounds like old tech to me other than it's gonna be mirrorless.


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## Michael Clark (Sep 29, 2020)

StevenA said:


> So is the title of this thread accurate? We're going to get a mirrorless version of the 1dxMiii? Sounds like old tech to me other than it's gonna be mirrorless.



What part of "... it *WILL NOT* recycle the EOS-1D X Mark III sensor.. " is too hard for you to understand?


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## fox40phil (Sep 29, 2020)

> The only information I have been told about the camera spec wise is that it *WILL NOT* recycle the EOS-1D X Mark III sensor.



Best part of the news! 

Let the pro bodies raise up in MP! Maybe 24-30MP!

Big need:
NO SHUTTER BLACKOUT AND LAG!
And 120Hz+ 5MP EVF minimum!

Will there be a battle of Sony and Canon? Anything about Nikon ? 
But Sonys A9II isn't that old... hm


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## slclick (Sep 29, 2020)

How on earth could anyone glean that this is a recycling of old tech? Please, find an adult community college course to help in reading comprehension.


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## StevenA (Sep 29, 2020)

_*"What part of "... it WILL NOT recycle the EOS-1D X Mark III sensor.. " is too hard for you to understand? "*_

_*"How on earth could anyone glean that this is a recycling of old tech? Please, find an adult community college course to help in reading comprehension."*_

Sounds like I'm going to have to add a /s in my posts made in jest to cater to the simpler crowd.


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## slclick (Sep 29, 2020)

StevenA said:


> _*"What part of "... it WILL NOT recycle the EOS-1D X Mark III sensor.. " is too hard for you to understand? "
> 
> "How on earth could anyone glean that this is a recycling of old tech? Please, find an adult community college course to help in reading comprehension."*_
> 
> Sounds like I'm going to have to add a /s in my posts made in jest to cater to the simpler crowd.


Sorry, that retort was as weak as the supposed sarcasm. Simpler crowd? Insults as well? Take a hike.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 29, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It was USM AF which was enabled by the all-electronic interface between the camera body and the lens that put Canon ahead of Nikon.
> 
> In 1987 when Canon introduced the EOS system, over 75% of professionals shooting in the 135 format used Nikon. Having said that, there were plenty of pros in the remaining 25% who shot Canon F1s. There were certainly pro-grade accessories available for the F1, such as high speed motor drives , as compared to consumer level lower speed power winders, and high capacity film magazines that could hold as much as 35 feet (250 frames) of bulk film.
> 
> ...


I was shooting Canon professionally pre 1987.

Here is my F-1N with my FN-100 bulk film back, that I sold a couple of years ago (the back I still have the camera). It only took 100 exposures not the 250 of the earlier version but was useful non the less, particularly for 'remote' shooting (I had a 50' air remote release) where changing the roll of film wasn't practical.


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## Methodical (Sep 30, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> I like R1 D.
> 
> Then the next one can be the R2 D.
> 
> Then a minor revision of that one can be the R2 D2!



I think they should keep the letter "D" in the name to retain it's historical significance and to distinguish it from the other camera bodies. We will see fairly soon.


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## StevenA (Sep 30, 2020)

slclick said:


> Sorry, that retort was as weak as the supposed sarcasm. Simpler crowd? Insults as well? Take a hike.


Oh we have struck a nerve have we? My original post was meant to be light humor by taking the thread title literally. You came back attacking my intelligence and remarked I should take a class. Really? Because taken LITERALLY the title of this thread indicates what I joked about. It literally does. Read it again if you aren't sure. Or take a class. You're actually trying to pick an argument over your misunderstanding of my post?

Yes, I do believe you to be a simpler mind. Yes. For sure. No doubt about it. You can reply if you must. But I've truly got no time for your type or your simpler mind, so I won't be reading it.


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## MVPhoto (Oct 1, 2020)

For R1 specs, I'd much prefer a 24mp, 6K60 / 4K120 with compressed RAW & h.265 without pixel binning like the R5 does.... and then sensor tech from the C70 / C300! That DGO sensor looks amazing!


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## Danglin52 (Oct 1, 2020)

Methodical said:


> I'm waiting for my R5...hoping to have it before the Eagle season gets hot. I will have to wait to see what it can do with sports photography.
> 
> Some folks will take a big hit if (when) this new body arrives and they decide to sell their 1DX3, but some folks will be very giddy at the same time. The introduction of the R5 is the first time I've been this excited about a non-1D camera body. I just wish they make the new body without all of that video stuff. I know it won't happen, but that's my wish.


I think you’ll like the R5. My only complaint is the camera is slower to wake up than a DSLR. The DSLR Had reached a point of almost instant availability. I strongly recommend you buy extra batteries. Totally agree with your prior comment that the 300 & 500 will be the first big whites. I would also add the 200–400 In some form as a candidate for early RF treatment.


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## tpatana (Oct 1, 2020)

Thinking from the angle that what R1 could provide that R5/R6 doesn't already have. The list is not that long, or my imagination is bad.

-size/ergonomics: nice, but not enough compared to gripped R5/R6
-battery life: same as above
-weather sealing: yes, but not huge difference unless it's water proof to 10m
-modular card slot to swap CFExpress, CFast, CF or SD
-buffer: R5/R6 already good enough
-display & EVF: there's some to be improved, but R5/R6 are already pretty good
-fps: maybe 20fps mechanical, 30fps e-shutter? 

So unless they bring something on the table that I can't think about, I probably would rather buy R5+R6 as the price is assumed to be similar. Did canon make R5/R6 too good?


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## SteveC (Oct 1, 2020)

tpatana said:


> So unless they bring something on the table that I can't think about, I probably would rather buy R5+R6 as the price is assumed to be similar. Did canon make R5/R6 too good?



I've been wondering that myself. It's basically going to be R5 build quality with an R6-like sensor (but not exactly the same, I hasten to add!), and a built in grip. What am I missing/forgetting about (as unfamiliar as I am with 1 series)?


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## tpatana (Oct 1, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I've been wondering that myself. It's basically going to be R5 build quality with an R6-like sensor (but not exactly the same, I hasten to add!), and a built in grip. What am I missing/forgetting about (as unfamiliar as I am with 1 series)?



They could further improve the AF performance, make it track well even in more dim conditions, go from eye-detection to pupil-detection. Could have separate IC just for AF. But hearing how good R5/R6 is, it's tough spot to make it enough better to justify R1 instead of R5+R6 combo.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 4, 2020)

fox40phil said:


> Best part of the news!
> 
> Let the pro bodies raise up in MP! Maybe 24-30MP!
> 
> ...






MVPhoto said:


> For R1 specs, I'd much prefer a 24mp, 6K60 / 4K120 with compressed RAW & h.265 without pixel binning like the R5 does.... and then sensor tech from the C70 / C300! That DGO sensor looks amazing!



There's no real practical difference between 20 MP and 24 MP. That's only 9.5% more pixels per linear dimensions. A 20 MP FF sensor has a pixel pitch of 6.58µm. A 24 MP FF sensor would have a pitch of 6.01µm. 26 MP is only 15% more linear resolution than 20 MP.

One really needs to get close to 30 MP before it's really significantly more resolution.

29 MP is 20% more linear resolution than 20 MP.
32 MP is 26% more linear resolution than 20 MP.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 4, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Thinking from the angle that what R1 could provide that R5/R6 doesn't already have. The list is not that long, or my imagination is bad.
> 
> -size/ergonomics: nice, but not enough compared to gripped R5/R6
> -battery life: same as above
> ...



Maintain raw bit depth at 14-bits when shooting with electronic silent shutter and 20 fps mechanical shutter.

The 1D X Mark III drops to 12-bit with electronic shutter at any frame rate, and also with 20 fps mechanical shutter.

The R5 and R6 are similar, though I don't have the exact specs at the tip of my mind at the moment.


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## koenkooi (Oct 4, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Maintain raw bit depth at 14-bits when shooting with electronic silent shutter and 20 fps mechanical shutter.
> 
> The 1D X Mark III drops to 12-bit with electronic shutter at any frame rate, and also with 20 fps mechanical shutter.
> 
> The R5 and R6 are similar, though I don't have the exact specs at the tip of my mind at the moment.


The R5 also goes down to 13-bit in 12fps mechanical mode.


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## Bishop80 (Oct 5, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> The 1D X Mark III drops to 12-bit with electronic shutter at any frame rate, *and also with 20 fps mechanical shutter.*



Where is this documented?
Canon documentation that I have read indicates that 12-bit A/D conversion is done for electronic shutter, but not Live View mechanical shutter.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Oct 13, 2020)

zim said:


> My first canon was an F1 if i could even remotely afford this my last canon would be an R1


LOL I've still got my motor drive F1.


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