# So the 50mm f/nooneknows IS guy is renting a 50 f/1.2L...



## ahsanford (Dec 14, 2016)

_...but it's not what you think!_

Holiday travel has us visiting a lot of family, including some little ones we don't see enough. I thought it might be worth grabbing a rental to fool around with (gasp) a 50mm other than the one I want. I get by with my 50mm f/1.4 USM in general, but running children seemed like too great an ask for that jumpy / erratic AF. So the 50 f/1.2L is coming out for the trip. 

A few decidedly more inane questions (than I normally ask) have come to mind:


In a bright daylight scene with the kids in snow, any chance opening up to f/1.2 would require faster than a 1/8000 shutter? It seems insane, but might I need a 72mm ND? (Sure, I could stop down, I know, but who leaves a Ferrari in 2nd gear?)


I'll only have one evening to dial in the AFMA before I go, and it's possible I don't even get to that until after we fly. What's your best makeshift target for AFMA when you don't have a proper target nearby? Ruler? Rows of newspaper or book text? Print a paper target out in advance and bring it with me?


I will be entirely off-tripod and relying on the AF. I know not to focus and recompose when shooting wider apertures, but can any 5D3 owners vouch for how the off-center (cross type) points work with this lens? 


Thanks for any 50L experience you can share.

- A


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## geekpower (Dec 14, 2016)

you will want a 3 stop ND filter to shoot wide open in bright sun.

doing AFMA manually with this lens is actually easier than you would expect. i shoot against printed material and judge the front/back focusing by the color fringing. if the line you are aiming at is black, and the lines above and below are purple and green, you are good to go, no need to squint at the actual sharpness.

can't comment on the 5D3, as i only have a 6D, but in my experience i get more keepers with the off-center focus points if i'm stopped down some. the lens is sharpest at f/5.6.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 14, 2016)

Concur on the 3-stop ND, that's what I use on my 85/1.2L when shooting in sunlight. 

If you're going to set up a yardstick test, a setup like this (using a focus target such as this one) is the best way to do it. This is basically a DIY version of the commercial AFMA tools.


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## ahsanford (Dec 14, 2016)

Holy cow, I'm not crazy on the ND?! Wow!

#overthinkjustified

- A


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## Random Orbits (Dec 14, 2016)

+1 on the 3-stop ND. Although I have cheated by setting ISO to Low (50), using a polarizer in its place and a little ETTR. Which reminds me that I should pick up a 3 stop filter in that diameter -- I once tried using a 77mm VND with a step ring and the VND induced a lot of veiling flare. Step rings are a pain.

+1 on AFMAing as Neuro suggested. Some also use a tripod or some other stable support and LiveView to dial in AFMA. Use PDAF to focus, and then switch to LiveView and focus on the same target and see how the focus changes. The direction it shifts will give you an indication of what direction to change the AFMA settings. Ideally it won't shift at all.

Off center cross points work ok -- center ones are still most accurate -- but hit rate will go down. I avoid non-cross with fast lenses and especially the 50L. The key is having a high contrast target. I end up taking more shots to get a keeper with the 50L -- use back button and shift camera distance slightly while firing a burst sometimes works with outer points. I typically don't use the 50L for moving objects -- servo is not as accurate as the 24-70 f/2.8 II or 35L II -- although my 50L focused more accurately, especially wide open, than the 50 f/1.4 I borrowed from a friend. Never really had a problem focusing outside in good light, but indoors with low light levels and low contrast targets is more difficult especially with DOF is thinner. Expect to take more shots, don't pixel peep too much and have fun!


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## ahsanford (Dec 14, 2016)

Random Orbits said:


> +1 on the 3-stop ND. Although I have cheated by setting ISO to Low (50), using a polarizer in its place and a little ETTR. Which reminds me that I should pick up a 3 stop filter in that diameter -- I once tried using a 77mm VND with a step ring and the VND induced a lot of veiling flare. Step rings are a pain.
> 
> +1 on AFMAing as Neuro suggested. Some also use a tripod or some other stable support and LiveView to dial in AFMA. Use PDAF to focus, and then switch to LiveView and focus on the same target and see how the focus changes. The direction it shifts will give you an indication of what direction to change the AFMA settings. Ideally it won't shift at all.
> 
> Off center cross points work ok -- center ones are still most accurate -- but hit rate will go down. I avoid non-cross with fast lenses and especially the 50L. The key is having a high contrast target. I end up taking more shots to get a keeper with the 50L -- use back button and shift camera distance slightly while firing a burst sometimes works with outer points. I typically don't use the 50L for moving objects -- servo is not as accurate as the 24-70 f/2.8 II or 35L II -- although my 50L focused more accurately, especially wide open, than the 50 f/1.4 I borrowed from a friend. Never really had a problem focusing outside in good light, but indoors with low light levels and low contrast targets is more difficult especially with DOF is thinner. Expect to take more shots, don't pixel peep too much and have fun!



Appreciate the feedback. Yes, the CPL idea (but not the ISO 50) idea came to mind, but I don't own a 72mm filter, believe it or not. My entire kit is magically one of three diameters. I'll give Uncle Rog a call and tell him to throw a filter in the box, thx.

And yes, my feet are firmly on the ground with child-tracking-servo work with an f/1.2 lens. I'm not hoping for some flying snowball magic so much as _not whiffing_ when the kids and actually stop moving and make a face -- that has happened a lot on my 50mm f/1.4 USM.

- A


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## slclick (Dec 14, 2016)

I use GhettoCal. Made my own out of a print out and foamcore.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 19, 2016)

I'd really like to see some sample shots from a good photographer showing how it performs at f/1.8-2.8 within six feet, as that is where the boogey monster of focus shift supposedly brings down this lens.

I've seen way too many posts from people who say, "I've used it wide open and never have a problem." From what I understand, it isn't wide open, it's just a little tighter and up to roughly 2.8 where the shallow DoF reveals the shift.

Good luck getting some great memories!


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## hendrik-sg (Dec 19, 2016)

focussing plaing kids with this lens is really difficult, and maybe a matter of luck.

If you want the eyes in focus, it's a miss if you focus the eyebrows. So you must hit the eye, and the camera/lens must hit and the child is must not move more than 1cm towards or away from you between focusing and taking the pic and of course you must have chosen the correct focuspoint to get a reasonable composition. The one who manages this reliably qualifies himself as a pro 

This works with a model who poses quietly and is patient to take pics for some time.

This is written from my perspective with (maybe below) average skills, a beginner with experience only with a f4.0 zoom will not get one single keeper, somebody with lot of expierience may get some usable pics of playing children, but would not ask in the forum of course.

In general, people will tend to praise ther results and skills, and of course post only ther very few best pictures. 

If your event is important, shot most of the time with gear you are familiar with, of course it's interesting to try something new, maybe practice with neighbour's dog to get a feeling for the results you may expect?


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## ahsanford (Dec 19, 2016)

hendrik-sg said:


> focussing plaing kids with this lens is really difficult, and maybe a matter of luck.
> 
> [truncated]



Agree. I'm not expecting 70-200 f/2.8 laser quick focusing, and for a host of reasons (kids, movement, finnicky large aperture performance, etc.) I know I will miss often. That's okay.

I'll do my best to limit the operator error -- one (cross type) AF point only, no focusing and recomposing, shutter speeds far in excess of the 1 / focal length I'd use for stationary subjects, etc.

I'm hopeful I'll net some special moments. If I could do it with my old 50 f/1.4 USM, I'm pretty confident I can do it with the 50L.

- A


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## geekpower (Dec 19, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> I'd really like to see some sample shots from a good photographer showing how it performs at f/1.8-2.8 within six feet, as that is where the boogey monster of focus shift supposedly brings down this lens.



i don't claim to be a good photographer by any means, but this was taken at f/2.0, near the MFD:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/31463889281/


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## Pookie (Dec 19, 2016)

*f/1.8*













*f/2.0*

















*
f/2.8*


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## slclick (Dec 19, 2016)

Pookie said:


> *f/1.8*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great work Pookie


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## Pookie (Dec 21, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> _...but it's not what you think!_
> 
> Holiday travel has us visiting a lot of family, including some little ones we don't see enough. I thought it might be worth grabbing a rental to fool around with (gasp) a 50mm other than the one I want. I get by with my 50mm f/1.4 USM in general, but running children seemed like too great an ask for that jumpy / erratic AF. So the 50 f/1.2L is coming out for the trip.
> 
> ...



I tend to use either a CP that usually dials in at about 2 stops or a 3 stop to shoot at 1.2.

I've shot this lens ( I own 2 copies) on three different bodies a 7D, multiple 5D3's and a 1DX. Rarely use the 7D but never had much of a problem with it off center. The 1DX never has an issue. On the 5D3's I honestly don't think I've ever center focused with it and it is by far the most used of my Canon bodies. I limit my point to cross and use my 50L all over the map... never misses. Between this and the 85L it's my favorite prime and I own many. It's my favorite EDC when luggin a Canon around.

The focus issues everyone brings up I'm sure exist in some of the early copies but of the 4 I've owned I never had one issue with it. I've bought them as early as 2009 and as late as 2014. Sold a couple and continue to use them in my studio. 

And thanks slclick.


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## ahsanford (Dec 21, 2016)

UPDATE

Lens arrived today and my makeshift AFMA setup (effectively the TDP diagram Neuro linked) was predictably imprecise, but not for reasons you'd expect. At 25x FL distance (1.25m), at f/1.2 I'm seeing 4-5 notches on my (rigid) tape measure in focus. The fidelity of my measuring instrument is sufficiently high that it's hard to see what direction to make changes. 

I didn't want to just jump closer in the test than a distance I'd reasonably shoot this lens with, so I've switched over to shooting something a little less fine. I've opted for a wall calendar with set increment boxes about an inch apart. On a tripod with a cable release, I shot it repeatedly focused at one specific calendar day number at a 45d angle to the wall about 1 meter away with a single central AF point at f/1.2. I used OVF focusing only -- no Liveview. I deliberately defocused prior to each shot with a twist of the focusing ring, then I would then half-shutter in One Shot AF on the selected number, and then take the shot after I received AF confirmation. Rinse and repeat x5.

From that I did a 100% pixel peep right on the LCD (I lack the tethering gear) and it was pretty clear (a) if I nailed the digit I was aiming for and (b) if the (day - 1) or (day + 1) on the calendar looked relatively equally defocused. If I was shooting at (say) the 9 for the 9th day of the month, I didn't want to see 8 also nearly sharp in focus and 10 completely blurred out or vice versa. 

Result: On the courser setup, the LCD gave me the simpler more/less feedback I needed. After some trial and error, only a small adjustment was needed, -1 in the AFMA settings. *Despite that, even on a tripod in a highly controlled setup, the single center 5D3 AF point whiffed one time in five*. I had a high contrast target, no competing contrasty elements inside of the single selected AF box, and the AF would lay an egg (nail one digit to the left or right of my target and leave my intended target OOF. As I said before, the digits were not that close together so I'd call this a healthy miss and not a small one.

There wasn't brilliant light in the room (just an overhead halogen fixture), but the camera + lens had zero trouble quickly confirming AF -- it was not hunting one bit.

I'll run a 'field test' at some point before I go in less controlled conditions. I was thinking a high contrast object (water bottle perhaps) sitting on a flat sheet of grass outdoors. I'd use the blades of grass to peg if I'm on or if more adjustment is needed, and it would give me the chance to size up multiple focus distances.

But this is highly consistent with my 35 Art rental and prior 50L rental. The AF appears more confident than the result is, and that undercuts my confidence in turn. Is this just the life of a large aperture lens? Misses happen, so just keep shooting?

- A


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## ahsanford (Dec 21, 2016)

BTW, all this AF work was done with one-point AF and not spot AF -- as I thought I was supposed to. If that was a poor assumption, please let me know, thx.

- A


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## Random Orbits (Dec 21, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> BTW, all this AF work was done with one-point AF and not spot AF -- as I thought I was supposed to. If that was a poor assumption, please let me know, thx.
> 
> - A



Looks like the rental lens is matched well to your 5D3. A 0 to -1 isn't that significant.

The AF area is a bit larger than the box in the VF, so it may be that your target's edge is being picked up by the AF point when that isn't the edge you want. The spot area is about the size of the regular box in the VF, and single point is wider than that.


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## Hannes (Dec 23, 2016)

AF is as you say a bit finicky but you can work around it to some extent. It will give you a bit more work but usually when shooting people who are still I usually resort to burst mode, one shot and rocking backwards and forwards as the DOF is shorter than the AF of my 5D2. The 1d4 is a lot more reliable but still not perfect so I always take a lot more photos than I normally would to bump the number of useable shots


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## ahsanford (Dec 30, 2016)

Just got back from my trip.

High-level 50L + 5D3 thoughts: 


I took some wonderful images of my family. Mission: accomplished. I'll post a few keepers of the little ones pending a parental green light.


I missed a LOT when shooting f/2.8 or wider -- I'd roughly peg 10-20% or so, definitely much higher in the f/1.6 or wider side of things (as one would expect). AFMA was correct but I got a great number of swings and misses where the AF was inconsistent. That said, when it was right, it generated wonderful images.


Wider than f/2, I'd occasionally get a very 50 f/1.4 USM-reminiscent cloudy/hazy shot that my shooting conditions should not have generated -- there was no sun in the frame or strong backlight. 


Needed the ND (for 1/8000 reasons) for all of 5 seconds outside, which I simply managed by repositioning to the sun, snow reflection, etc. or simply stopping down.

I've got a mountain of shots to wade through. I'll post a few if I can.

- A


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## slclick (Dec 30, 2016)

Thx for the report. I also have been playing the waiting game for Canon to come up with something better than the 1.4 and with IS but caved and jumped on a good priced Sigma Art 50. I had the 35 in the past but I have to say the 50 nails focus almost all of the time unlike the 35 which was 50 % when under f/2.8. I also did not need a AFMA with it even though I just built my own DIY checker. As a previous owner of all three versions of the Nifty Fifty the Youngnuo clone and the Canon 1.4 I can say I am happy...satiated.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 30, 2016)

slclick said:


> Thx for the report. I also have been playing the waiting game for Canon to come up with something better than the 1.4 and with IS but caved and jumped on a good priced Sigma Art 50. I had the 35 in the past but I have to say the 50 nails focus almost all of the time unlike the 35 which was 50 % when under f/2.8. I also did not need a AFMA with it even though I just built my own DIY checker. As a previous owner of all three versions of the Nifty Fifty the Youngnuo clone and the Canon 1.4 I can say I am happy...satiated.



Which body are you using it with, if you don't mind sharing?


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## ahsanford (Dec 30, 2016)

Also, as a side note, using the 50L as my primary and 28 f/2.8 IS as my wider other lens for the trip, my focusing experience was night and day between the two. I fully recognize how much newer and easier an f/2.8 is to resolve, but the entire focusing experience more responsive, effective, and personally fulfilling with the smaller non-L lens. That lens has impeccable AF for my needs.

So this rental 100% reinforced what I want with the 50mm f/nooneknows IS USM: alongside improving the optics, putting a modern/reliable/consistent/fast AF setup on it is an absolute must. It's a massive part of fulfilling the potential of 'the small DOF experience' for me.

- A


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## slclick (Dec 30, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Thx for the report. I also have been playing the waiting game for Canon to come up with something better than the 1.4 and with IS but caved and jumped on a good priced Sigma Art 50. I had the 35 in the past but I have to say the 50 nails focus almost all of the time unlike the 35 which was 50 % when under f/2.8. I also did not need a AFMA with it even though I just built my own DIY checker. As a previous owner of all three versions of the Nifty Fifty the Youngnuo clone and the Canon 1.4 I can say I am happy...satiated.
> ...



5D3


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## YuengLinger (Dec 30, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Also, as a side note, using the 50L as my primary and 28 f/2.8 IS as my wider other lens for the trip, my focusing experience was night and day between the two. I fully recognize how much newer and easier an f/2.8 is to resolve, but the entire focusing experience more responsive, effective, and personally fulfilling with the smaller non-L lens. That lens has impeccable AF for my needs.
> 
> So this rental 100% reinforced what I want with the 50mm f/nooneknows IS USM: alongside improving the optics, putting a modern/reliable/consistent/fast AF setup on it is an absolute must. It's a massive part of fulfilling the potential of 'the small DOF experience' for me.
> 
> - A



Thank you very much for posting, for following through with your thoughts. Looking forward to a few shared images.

Do you think some of the misses were due to focus shift? 

I'm just waiting too. I tried the Sigma 50mm Art, two copies, had inconsistent AF and less than exciting image quality--apart from excellent sharpness when AF did work. I MIGHT be willing to give it another look if overwhelming evidence showed it to have reliable AF on the 5DIV. Still, waiting for a magic Canon allows me to yearn...

Happy New Year!

(And thanks, slclick, for telling us you have such good luck with your 5DIII. Strange beast, that Art.)


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