# Canon EOS M50 Mark II Specifications [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 2, 2020)

> The Canon EOS M50 Mark II has been confirmed and should be announced before the end of 2020. The new EOS M camera promises to build on the feature set of the much loved original EOS M50.
> *Rumored Canon EOS M50 Mark II Specifications:*
> 
> 32.5mp APS-C CMOS sensor
> ...



Continue reading...


----------



## Chaitanya (Oct 2, 2020)

Single SD Slot is a bummer if true.


----------



## marathonman (Oct 2, 2020)

How long before someone mentions the lack of dual card slots ;-)


----------



## nchoh (Oct 2, 2020)

So... is the rumour that the next M camera is the last M camera dead? Or is this the last M camera?


----------



## BroderLund (Oct 2, 2020)

10bit 422? would be awesome as a small backup/hiking cam
Tho, once again, more M lenses are needed. And that future doesn't look bright


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 2, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Single SD Slot is a bummer if true.


Seriously? What pocketable APS-C camera has dual slots?


----------



## AlanF (Oct 2, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Single SD Slot is a bummer if true.


The M series has always had a single card slot. Cameras in this bracket aren't usually bought by those who need two slots.


----------



## idahobill (Oct 2, 2020)

These specs seem likely. This will be a great little action camera - same specs as M6 mk2 but with a built in viewfinder, plus DPAF 2. I didn’t expect IBIS although Canon needs to incorporate it into the M series soon.


----------



## mb66energy (Oct 2, 2020)

No IBIS supports my decision to buy a 2nd hand 15-85 EF-S for 200 bucks with IS ... as an allround lens for video with the current M50 ...

I think IBIS will be in the M5 follow up at a stronger price point with some additional goodies ...


----------



## stochasticmotions (Oct 2, 2020)

All seems like a good update for a pretty solid and inexpensive camera. If it has autofocus in 4k then it would be reason enough for me to upgrade from the m50. The m50 is a great little camera that pretty much lives on our gimbal, improved autofocus is really the only thing I would love to see, higher specs can be for the more expensive m5, m6 versions.


----------



## Skux (Oct 2, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Single SD Slot is a bummer if true.





marathonman said:


> How long before someone mentions the lack of dual card slots ;-)



lol

Well I'll probably get it. I love my M6 Mark II but forgetting the viewfinder just makes me feel bad for the whole photo session. With animal eye AF from DPAF2 it'll be perfect for birding.


----------



## David Hull (Oct 2, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


What the hell happened to the M5 replacement? Not that I care so much -- it is just curiosity. When I saw the M6, I peddled my entire M5 kit and bought the EOS R. I really wonder where Cannon is headed with this system, it seems like a dead branch on the tree to me.


----------



## Andy Westwood (Oct 2, 2020)

This sounds reasonable DPAF II is a great addition for the M50 II, but surely this camera can’t be any more money than 799 £ or $

It would be nice to see an M5 II come along soon with IBIS and slightly better spec for say 999 £ or $


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 2, 2020)

David Hull said:


> What the hell happened to the M5 replacement? Not that I care so much -- it is just curiosity. When I saw the M6, I peddled my entire M5 kit and bought the EOS R. I really wonder where Cannon is headed with this system, it seems like a dead branch on the tree to me.


I've been hoping for an M5 II for a bit too long, I sold my M5 in futile anticipation but now I'm thinking I can live without it. An R5 and 35 f1.8 and 85 f2 seem like a small enough travel package to me so I'll probably sell the rest of my M lenses and adapter soon.


----------



## Dragon (Oct 2, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Single SD Slot is a bummer if true.


An entry level consumer camera and "single SD slot is a bummer". What planet are you from? Name me a camera at the likely price point that has dual card slots. Ditto for IBIS.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 2, 2020)

David Hull said:


> What the hell happened to the M5 replacement? Not that I care so much -- it is just curiosity. When I saw the M6, I peddled my entire M5 kit and bought the EOS R. I really wonder where Cannon is headed with this system, it seems like a dead branch on the tree to me.



I'm going to engage in pure speculation here, but here goes: The M5-II will have IBIS, and they were waiting for that to be proved.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Oct 2, 2020)

If anything, the R5 taught me that I neeeeed IBIS, for these jittery caffeinated hands.


----------



## Rivermist (Oct 2, 2020)

Any idea which battery will be used? Still the LP-E12 or the LP-E17 (same as RP)?


----------



## Dragon (Oct 2, 2020)

David Hull said:


> What the hell happened to the M5 replacement? Not that I care so much -- it is just curiosity. When I saw the M6, I peddled my entire M5 kit and bought the EOS R. I really wonder where Cannon is headed with this system, it seems like a dead branch on the tree to me.


Patience. Everybody wants all the features and features take power and power takes space and makes heat. Technology is getting there. The R5 processor is pretty amazing when you think it can capture 35 MP images at 30 FPS, then warp transform each one for DLO and shade and sharpen, and then compress them into an MPEG stream, all on about 10 or 12 watts of power. And oh by the way, it is also capturing those images at 70 MP (DPAF) and processing them for AF and running the AF and the IBIS. The digic x undervolted and running at a lower clock speed may well be suitable for an M5 replacement, but it wasn't there a year ago and yields need to be decent before it can be put into a less expensive camera than the R6.


----------



## Bob Howland (Oct 2, 2020)

[email protected]!? If you thought there were overheating problems with the R5 and R6, just wait for this camera...just a Wild Guess.


----------



## canonnews (Oct 2, 2020)

Rivermist said:


> Any idea which battery will be used? Still the LP-E12 or the LP-E17 (same as RP)?


If it's an M50, LP-E12, if it's an M5 Mark II/M7 - LP-E17.


----------



## Dragon (Oct 2, 2020)

Andy Westwood said:


> This sounds reasonable DPAF II is a great addition for the M50 II, but surely this camera can’t be any more money than 799 £ or $
> 
> It would be nice to see an M5 II come along soon with IBIS and slightly better spec for say 999 £ or $


Try $1,499. Please name me an APS-C camera for $999 with Ibis. The Sony DSLR-A100 I bought 14 years ago was that much back then.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Oct 2, 2020)

M6 is over $1000, this will be even more with these specs. And we still have $100 plastic, dark standard zoom only.


----------



## preppyak (Oct 2, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> [email protected]!? If you thought there were overheating problems with the R5 and R6, just wait for this camera...just a Wild Guess.


I mean, GH5 has been doing 4k60 for nearly 4 years; sensor size matters. Obviously the Sony cams had all sorts of issues with overheating at APS-C early on, but Sony solved that.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 2, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Try $1,499. Please name me an APS-C camera for $999 with Ibis. The Sony DSLR-A100 I bought 14 years ago was that much back then.


That doesn't really work. I paid $8,000 for a 1DS III, I paid $5,500 for a much more capable in every single metric 1DX MkII 8 years later.


----------



## dwarven (Oct 2, 2020)

It seems like IBIS and lightning quick eye-AF have become the holy grails of camera bodies. I wonder how people even managed to do photography at all before 2017.


----------



## Czardoom (Oct 2, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> [email protected]!? If you thought there were overheating problems with the R5 and R6, just wait for this camera...just a Wild Guess.



Smaller sensor, no IBIS, less weather sealing. So, not likely a problem, in my opinion.


----------



## bbasiaga (Oct 2, 2020)

This will be a great little camera. Makes me feel better about the money I just spent on the original M50 too. This has nice upgrades across the board but for a casual use body I wouldn't see much benefit from the upgrade. And I didn't want to spend too much. I think this one will be maybe $800 US at launch. We will see. 

Brian


----------



## fox40phil (Oct 2, 2020)

Anything about a R Aps-C?!
Would be cool with only 20MP! For better pixels.


----------



## leadin2 (Oct 2, 2020)

Skux said:


> lol
> 
> Well I'll probably get it. I love my M6 Mark II but forgetting the viewfinder just makes me feel bad for the whole photo session. With animal eye AF from DPAF2 it'll be perfect for birding.


I keep putting my face to the camera, only to remember I don’t have evf in my previous M6 lol
After I bought an external evf, realized I seldom use it since the touch screen is too convenient. Just a matter of getting used to.


----------



## Deleted member 68328 (Oct 2, 2020)

Following the logic I've read here, Canon is supposed to focus solely on the R bodies, so why is this camera coming?

If they release a new M camera despite this "logic", why is it not sensible to expect a 5D Mark V as well?


----------



## PeterT (Oct 2, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Try $1,499. Please name me an APS-C camera for $999 with Ibis.



The Fujifilm X-S10 is rumored to come on October 15 and should cost "around $999" and should have IBIS.


----------



## CanonGrunt (Oct 2, 2020)

yoms said:


> Following the logic I've read here, Canon is supposed to focus solely on the R bodies, so why is this camera coming?
> 
> If they release a new M camera despite this "logic", why is it not sensible to expect a 5D Mark V as well?




Because M bodies sell like candy. Simple, small, and most importantly these days - double as web cams. Like a dozen of my friends bought the M50 just for that. My sister got the white one because “it was pretty.” My brother got one because it was cheap enough “for what he needs while traveling, and is light.” People have their reasons, but they sell tons of these little guys. I think Canon would have preferred to give the line up and go only with RF, but they sell so many of them now. Can’t say know to a proven revenue stream. Most people buying M series cameras are like the old rebel users; often they will just buy an updated rebel like 5 years later instead of moving up the line. Same happens here.


----------



## -pekr- (Oct 2, 2020)

No IBIS ... ta da dááá ... pass ....


----------



## jolyonralph (Oct 2, 2020)

marathonman said:


> How long before someone mentions the lack of dual card slots ;-)



Minus 2 minutes, it turns out.


----------



## Nigel95 (Oct 2, 2020)

fox40phil said:


> Anything about a R Aps-C?!
> Would be cool with only 20MP! For better pixels.


Yes man this camera with 4k 60p is great news for the APS-C Canon line. Been waiting for this so long. Just wish it was with the ergonomics of a R body. I also have much more faith with the RF glass for the future compared to the M line. M line doesn't seem to get much attention with new (quality) glass.

Would love to go FF but swapping my current kit 200d, canon 10-18, sigma 18-35 and 60mm macro for an equivalent FF body and glass is far from cheap especially for a hobbyist.

Would love to pay up to 2k body only, if Canon could deliver a nice R7 APS C body or so.
On my wish list:
4k 60p 10 bit DPAF no crop and nice detailed footage
IBIS (hopefully less wobbles on UWA than with FF)
Animal AF
1080p 120p with DPAF no crop
Combined with some nice stills this would be my dream camera for now.

There was a rumor earlier about R APS C body in the end of 2021. Waiting.. waiting....


----------



## wsmith96 (Oct 2, 2020)

This sounds like a nice little camera. I've tested out an M5 and did prefer having the built in EVF over the M6 design.


----------



## Kane Clements (Oct 2, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Try $1,499. Please name me an APS-C camera for $999 with Ibis. The Sony DSLR-A100 I bought 14 years ago was that much back then.



On 15 October Fuji is formally announcing the X-S10 which is going to be priced at $999 and we know it will have IBIS. Also lots of other lovely features. 

Having said that if the body size is right I might buy an M50 II in a few months when discounts are available depending on whether it has animal eye detect AF. It will depend on the body dimensions.


----------



## Kane Clements (Oct 2, 2020)

Nigel95 said:


> Yes man this camera with 4k 60p is great news for the APS-C Canon line. Been waiting for this so long. Just wish it was with the ergonomics of a R body. I also have much more faith with the RF glass for the future compared to the M line. M line doesn't seem to get much attention with new (quality) glass.
> 
> Would love to go FF but swapping my current kit 200d, canon 10-18, sigma 18-35 and 60mm macro for an equivalent FF body and glass is far from cheap especially for a hobbyist.
> 
> ...



Hello Nigel95

I was looking for a similar sort of upgrade path. I had a 100D (much underrated) and ended up with an M50 and 90D. The latter was rubbish and I swopped it for an RP. The M50 was really nice as was the RP but after considerable thought and a fair bit of angst I sold my Canon kit and bought a Fuji X-T4 which has a crop sensor. The eye autofocus doesn't match Canon. Everything else knocks the mid range Canon offerings out of the park. It is a beast.

If I was in your position, I'd sit and wait to see what Canon does in a year or so. In the meantime you will still have a really nice set up and will get great images out of it.

Canon aren't my favourite company at the moment because they got lost when mirrorless came along. If one doesn't actually need mirrorless then they have a range of great products. Outside of that the R5, R6, RP and M50 plus M6 Mk II (the last with reservations) are good, but they don't have the breadth of Sony.


----------



## PeterT (Oct 2, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> No IBIS ... ta da dááá ... pass ....



I have the same feelings.
Even if, realistically (based on previous rumors), I did not expect this one have IBIS.

About three years ago when I started to feel that my very old 450D needs a refresh I wanted an APS-C camera with IBIS. But at that time the only one was Sony A6600, which I did not like. So I decided to stay with Canon for another period of time. Until I actually accomplished my decision, the Fujifilm X-H1 came out. I was tempted, but it was not as small and light as I would have wanted. So I finally bought a used Canon 80D. It was the smallest APS-C Canon with focus micro-adjustments.
I like its IQ and features (the focus MA changed my 85mm 1.8 into a very usable lens), but it is too big and has no IBIS. I really miss it with my longer primes (85 and 100). In low light I am always deciding between f/5.6 with IS and f/1.8 without IS. None of them is optimal. I want f/1.8 with IS!
Therefore I decided to buy a smaller mirrorless camera (smaller than 80D and X-H1) with IBIS by the end of this year or beginning of the next year. So I am eagerly waiting if Canon gives me a camera to consider and eventually stay with Canon or the only option will be Fujifilm (X-T4 or maybe the new rumored X-S10)...


----------



## Dragon (Oct 2, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> M6 is over $1000, this will be even more with these specs. And we still have $100 plastic, dark standard zoom only.


There is some glass mixed in with that plastic . Seriously, the advantage of those plastic lenses is that they are very light.


----------



## Dragon (Oct 2, 2020)

PeterT said:


> The Fujifilm X-S10 is rumored to come on October 15 and should cost "around $999" and should have IBIS.


Canon is almost always competitive on price, so even though the high end M will likely be more money, it will likely have some features the Fuji doesn't.


----------



## degos (Oct 2, 2020)

Kane Clements said:


> On 15 October Fuji is formally announcing the X-S10 which is going to be priced at $999 and we know it will have IBIS. Also lots of other lovely features.



Nice! With a Fuji-EF adapter?

Oh no?

Then why even mention it here?


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 2, 2020)

yoms said:


> Following the logic I've read here, Canon is supposed to focus solely on the R bodies, so why is this camera coming?
> 
> If they release a new M camera despite this "logic", why is it not sensible to expect a 5D Mark V as well?


Because Canon said there’s no 5D Mark V coming. Perfect logic right there. That’s as sensible and logical as you can get.


----------



## tomsop (Oct 2, 2020)

I saw someone mention that there will be a follow up to the M5 - I want to upgrade but did not like the M6ii lack of viewfinder. I have the M5. Should I get this one with these rumored specs or is something better coming - I am confused if this is the upgrade I have been waiting for - I know earlier ppl said the m6ii was not much of an upgrade for the m5 and the specs on this m50ii appears to be the same as an m6ii with viewfinder. I don't want to get this if there is something better coming shortly with IBIS or even a full frame M system camera.


----------



## Deleted member 68328 (Oct 2, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Because Canon said there’s no 5D Mark V coming. Perfect logic right there. That’s as sensible and logical as you can get.


Source? Not rumors, I mean source.


----------



## Nigel95 (Oct 2, 2020)

Kane Clements said:


> and bought a Fuji X-T4 which has a crop sensor. The eye autofocus doesn't match Canon. Everything else knocks the mid range Canon offerings out of the park. It is a beast.
> 
> If I was in your position, I'd sit and wait to see what Canon does in a year or so. In the meantime you will still have a really nice set up and will get great images out of it.


I was looking into the Fuji XT4 if canon made a body like that with APS-C I would be so happy! However Fuji also has some pretty expensive glass. If I would replace my current 3 lenses. I could probably just get a R6 with some FF glass for that kind of money. (didn't do the math exactly but thats what I remember from earlier looking into it). I Remember there is an adapter for Fuji for Canon glass but ofc AF will not be optimal. I remember also that capture one is better for Fuji raw files (worm artifacts). I use Adobe software myself but I have no personal experience with those 'worms' things just something I read when researching back then.

I am very pleased with the current 200d stills IQ for my needs. Don't even need an upgrade for this honestly. Although IBIS would be nice same as Animal AF. However the current 1080p footage is just not cutting it for me from the 200d. Extremely mushy and soft. I want something more detailed and better color reproduction. If only Magic lantern had an option with decent DPAF. Those raw video footage from the EOS-M is more work in the workflow but damn glorious. You can pick one up for like $150 used lol.

Indeed let's wait and stick to my current kit for now.


----------



## koch1948 (Oct 2, 2020)

The EOS M50 Mark II will not necessarily replace the EOS M5. The EOS M5 has a 1.62m-dot 3.2” touchscreen and a 1040 mAh LP-E17 battery whereas the existing EOS M50 only has a 1.04m-dot 3.0” touchscreen and an 875 mAh LP-E12 battery.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 2, 2020)

yoms said:


> Source? Not rumors, I mean source.


Source is Canon and the article was on this website. Not a rumor.


----------



## IBIS M5 (Oct 2, 2020)

For me, the new m-camera has to be quite cheap or have ibis. 
I liked the old rumor from September 2nd better. I think I would pay an extra 1k for ibis. I came from Pentax and the missing ibis has been a giant step backwards for my style of shooting.


----------



## dcm (Oct 2, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Single SD Slot is a bummer if true.



Missing sarcasm tag?


----------



## mikedidi46 (Oct 2, 2020)

Will this have the same full sensor AF points like the RP, R6 etc. or will it be restricted to a much smaller number.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 2, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> The EOS M50 Mark II will not necessarily replace the EOS M5. The EOS M5 has a 1.62m-dot 3.2” touchscreen and a 1040 mAh LP-E17 battery whereas the existing EOS M50 only has a 1.04m-dot 3.0” touchscreen and an 875 mAh LP-E12 battery.



Those are probably the two least significant differences between the M50 and the M5 you could have picked.


----------



## Skux (Oct 2, 2020)

Please use the LP-E17 battery. Come on Canon.


----------



## Kane Clements (Oct 2, 2020)

Nigel95 said:


> I was looking into the Fuji XT4 if canon made a body like that with APS-C I would be so happy! However Fuji also has some pretty expensive glass. If I would replace my current 3 lenses. I could probably just get a R6 with some FF glass for that kind of money. (didn't do the math exactly but thats what I remember from earlier looking into it). I Remember there is an adapter for Fuji for Canon glass but ofc AF will not be optimal. I remember also that capture one is better for Fuji raw files (worm artifacts). I use Adobe software myself but I have no personal experience with those 'worms' things just something I read when researching back then.
> 
> I am very pleased with the current 200d stills IQ for my needs. Don't even need an upgrade for this honestly. Although IBIS would be nice same as Animal AF. However the current 1080p footage is just not cutting it for me from the 200d. Extremely mushy and soft. I want something more detailed and better color reproduction. If only Magic lantern had an option with decent DPAF. Those raw video footage from the EOS-M is more work in the workflow but damn glorious. You can pick one up for like $150 used lol.
> 
> Indeed let's wait and stick to my current kit for now.



Hi Nigel.

Switching wasn’t an easy choice for me. In the end I added up the cost of an R6 plus the cost of the lenses I wanted (because some R glass is so new no chance of used) and for less money I got the X-T4 (I like the crop to increase reach) with the 16-80 and a 100-400 as new used for just over £3000.00. Add in a couple of third party batteries and a couple of extra SD cards and I’m good to go. All weather sealed and great stabilisation.

Am I happy with it all? Absolutely. Do I want Fuji to improve their AF? Yep.

Do I miss Canon? To a degree because I like their kit. Trouble is they don’t seem interested in the part of the market I’m in. And I’m not alone. Think about the people on here and elsewhere who are gagging for a 7D MkIII (or rather R7).

I rarely shoot video so that is an unknown to me personally, yet there are lots of shooters out there getting great results from the x-t4 / 3.

The question I’d ask all the Canon fans here is ‘why stick with Canon when other makers produce products that might better meet your needs’?

Canon loves your money and they love your loyalty. Are they reciprocating your commitment?


----------



## Kit. (Oct 2, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Single SD Slot is a bummer if true.


Triple CFExpress clots, or Canon is D....


----------



## Kane Clements (Oct 3, 2020)

Dragon said:


> Canon is almost always competitive on price, so even though the high end M will likely be more money, it will likely have some features the Fuji doesn't.


You haven't been paying attention I think.


----------



## Kane Clements (Oct 3, 2020)

degos said:


> Nice! With a Fuji-EF adapter?
> 
> Oh no?
> 
> Then why even mention it here?



Hello Degos.

If you fire up the second neurone you'll understand why.


----------



## tron (Oct 3, 2020)

mb66energy said:


> No IBIS supports my decision to buy a 2nd hand 15-85 EF-S for 200 bucks with IS ... as an allround lens for video with the current M50 ...
> 
> I think IBIS will be in the M5 follow up at a stronger price point with some additional goodies ...


I agree! It is a good lens!.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Oct 3, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> [email protected]!? If you thought there were overheating problems with the R5 and R6, just wait for this camera...just a Wild Guess.



Not with the very heavy crop or line skipping.


----------



## jam05 (Oct 3, 2020)

nchoh said:


> So... is the rumour that the next M camera is the last M camera dead? Or is this the last M camera?


M6 Mk3


----------



## tigers media (Oct 3, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I think you're right here all easy to do stuff no major changes that will come with the new flagship M machine whatever that ends up. The only omission which i think needs to be addressed now we are in the 20's ssd storage ? Surely they can hack a usb-c port in thunderbolt 3 would be awesome but give us the ability to store direct to a portable ssd . they are nearly same price as a good sd and 10 times better. Makes the unit better for weather proofing too as don't need to open in field.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 3, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> [email protected]!? If you thought there were overheating problems with the R5 and R6, just wait for this camera...just a Wild Guess.


M50 II will not be weather sealed


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 3, 2020)

preppyak said:


> I mean, GH5 has been doing 4k60 for nearly 4 years; sensor size matters. Obviously the Sony cams had all sorts of issues with overheating at APS-C early on, but Sony solved that.


GH5 is a much bigger camera with a smaller sensor but it is weather sealed unlike M50


----------



## Joules (Oct 3, 2020)

Kane Clements said:


> The question I’d ask all the Canon fans here is ‘why stick with Canon when other makers produce products that might better meet your needs’?
> 
> Canon loves your money and they love your loyalty. Are they reciprocating your commitment?


And the answer to that is pretty simple. Don't.

We are all looking for different things in our cameras. It is fine if you are looking for something different than 'Canon fans'.

Obviously the different Camera brands have to operate in different niches to some degree, so that they can differentiate on more than price. Canon's APS-C mirrorless is aggressively about small and light system. I see it more as an argument against MFT than Fuji. And clearly, that is a type of camera appealing only to a certain part of the Market.

As for higher end APS-C, Canon seems to intend to replace it by lowering the cost of FF bodies and lenses to the point that they no longer have to offer low end APS-C versions. How well that works out remains to be seen, as they didn't have enough time to release those RF lenses yet.


----------



## Joules (Oct 3, 2020)

mikedidi46 said:


> Will this have the same full sensor AF points like the RP, R6 etc. or will it be restricted to a much smaller number.


The M6 II already offers over 5000 manually selectable points across virtually the whole screen. With this M50 II being labeled DPAF II and getting a new processor, I bet AF performance will be outstanding, just as on the R6 and R5.


----------



## mb66energy (Oct 3, 2020)

Skux said:


> Please use the LP-E17 battery. Come on Canon.


While maybe helpful depending on the cameras you use for the sake of compatibility:
I never ran into problems with my M50 - one spare battery for one day (of mild photog/video)
is absolutely sufficient to keep blood pressure/stress down and seldomly used.
In contrast to the EOS RP I only feel relatively calm with TWO spare batteries.


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 3, 2020)

dcm said:


> Missing sarcasm tag?



Thirty years ago there were PC computers with one/two FDDs and an (optional) HDD. An M/RF series camera with a single card slot and an (optional) M.2 drive wouldn't be necessarily a bad idea, I think...

Call it "Black box" edition and voila!


----------



## Joules (Oct 3, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> Thirty years ago there were PC computers with one/two FDDs and an (optional) HDD. An M/RF series camera with a single card slot and an (optional) M.2 drive wouldn't be necessarily a bad idea, I think...
> 
> Call it "Black box" edition and voila!


It is just a tradeoff between cost and value. The target market may in theory benefit from additional backup. But in practical terms, that is a rare issue and if they loose images (which they still can avoid through WiFi phone backup), it is unlikely to be pictures from a professional setting.

It's not like the typical M series user is likely to have redundant storage hardware for their other electronic devices. Unless it is cloud storage, of course. Which I would assume to also be an option for the M50 II.


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 3, 2020)

Joules said:


> It is just a tradeoff between cost and value.


Sure. I would consider buying a fast SD card then...


----------



## Kit Chan (Oct 3, 2020)

IBIS and dual SD cards are probably being saved for the M7.


----------



## hachu21 (Oct 3, 2020)

No dual card slot on a M body for a while. Same for weatherproofing, 1/8000 mechanical shutter and so on.
You'll get all this nice stuff on the APSC R7.
Regarding IBIS, I'm not sure if it will trickle down to the M line soon.


----------



## canonnews (Oct 3, 2020)

Skux said:


> Please use the LP-E17 battery. Come on Canon.


they won't if this is a M50 Mark II. there's something called wanting people to upgrade.


----------



## canonnews (Oct 3, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> M6 is over $1000, this will be even more with these specs. And we still have $100 plastic, dark standard zoom only.


that price wouldn't make sense for an M50 Mark II - we're talking a $650-$750 USD body.

Which is why part of me is wondering about the specifications. Canon is usually pretty good at keeping the prices "around the same" on a Mark version, and this is a low cost volume seller so they aren't going to jack it up to $999 or even to the M6 Mark II levels. 

The M50 sold at mass quantities making it one of Canon's best selling cameras around the world because it was "pretty good", "pretty small" "pretty light" and also "pretty cheap". They aren't going to screw with that formula that much. Canon's marketshare would have cratered if it wasn't for the M50. Canon knows this.

But the camera seems to have more than what the M50 price point seems to demand, and potentially for 4K60 not pretty small or light either.

Oh well, if it comes out at the specifications at a M50 price point, then it's a complete bargain and i'll suffer with the lack of controls and probably "downgrade" to one to get an EVF.


----------



## Deleted member 68328 (Oct 3, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Source is Canon and the article was on this website. Not a rumor.


Nope, I know the article you're referring to. It's not an official statement at all.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Oct 3, 2020)

With these specs this would be a better camera than the RP, especially for video. Except for the FF sensor and RF mount.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Oct 3, 2020)

canonnews said:


> that price wouldn't make sense for an M50 Mark II - we're talking a $650-$750 USD body.
> 
> Which is why part of me is wondering about the specifications. Canon is usually pretty good at keeping the prices "around the same" on a Mark version, and this is a low cost volume seller so they aren't going to jack it up to $999 or even to the M6 Mark II levels.
> 
> ...



I hope you are right and this will be well under $1000 but with these specs it would be better than the M6 Mark II in every way, except maybe ergonomics.


----------



## Nigel95 (Oct 3, 2020)

Kane Clements said:


> I rarely shoot video so that is an unknown to me personally, yet there are lots of shooters out there getting great results from the x-t4 / 3.
> 
> The question I’d ask all the Canon fans here is ‘why stick with Canon when other makers produce products that might better meet your needs’?


No doubt The Fuji cameras you mentioned are very nice hybrid cameras. It crossed my mind several times to jump to another brand. But as we know the perfect camera doesn't exist at this price point. All have their pros and cons. Panasonic has no useable AF so that ruins it for me. Sony is doing great with the new A7SIII and no doubt the A7 IV will be a nice hybrid camera. Canon is doing nice as well with the R6 and R5. I just can't afford the transition to a high end FF body with all the glass involved and I think it's overkill for my needs. I don't really need the smaller dof or lower light capabilities. Just the current APS-C stills technology in combo with high quality video and specs like GH5. I am willing to pay for that just so I can reuse my current glass. Basically just a R6 with all the specs but APS-C sensor.

Please Canon


----------



## canonnews (Oct 3, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I hope you are right and this will be well under $1000 but with these specs it would be better than the M6 Mark II in every way, except maybe ergonomics.


That's why i'm questioning the specifications. Canon is not going to screw with the price.


----------



## canonnews (Oct 3, 2020)

Kane Clements said:


> Canon loves your money and they love your loyalty. Are they reciprocating your commitment?


I have yet to see Fuji make an ultra wide zoom for $399 USD for their mirrorless that is also excellent optical quality.

when they do get back to me.

If you are so fond of your Fuji - why are you here?


----------



## Stomphk (Oct 3, 2020)

Very simple to classify the M body:

1. m50 mark 2: 8 bit 4K 60p, no ibis, no clean hdmi out for external recording. use webcam utility to grab clean image for webmeetkng or livestreaming.

2. m6 mark 2: 4K 30p internal,no ibis, clean hdmi for external 10bit 4:2:2 recording.

3. rumored m7: flagship, 4K 60p 4:2:0 , ibis, clean hdmi out for external 10 bit 4:2:2 recording. log file and HLG supported.


----------



## tron (Oct 3, 2020)

To summarize some user requests, wishes, conclusions, etc:

<> IBIS, Dual cards, Fuji-EF adaptor, weatherproofing, focusing better than R5 and R6 and M5 II with IBIS and better spec at 999 £ or $ </ >


----------



## canonnews (Oct 3, 2020)

Stomphk said:


> Very simple to classify the M body:
> 
> 1. m50 mark 2: 8 bit 4K 60p, no ibis, no clean hdmi out for external recording. use webcam utility to grab clean image for webmeetkng or livestreaming.
> 
> ...


yeah except when you factor in prices, that doesn't make any sense.


----------



## koenkooi (Oct 3, 2020)

canonnews said:


> That's why i'm questioning the specifications. Canon is not going to screw with the price.



Both the sensor and Digic have been used in several other models, I wonder if Canon has fine tuned the production of those to make them cheap enough. The original M50 also had waaaay better specs than its pricepoint would predict.


----------



## Nigel95 (Oct 3, 2020)

tron said:


> To summarize some user requests, wishes, conclusions, etc:
> 
> <> IBIS, Dual cards, Fuji-EF adaptor, weatherproofing, focusing better than R5 and R6 and M5 II with IBIS and better spec at 999 £ or $ </ >


Full package with all the bells and whistles of the R6 with an APS-C sensor and R body ergonomics and I am willing to pay 2k 



canonnews said:


> I have yet to see Fuji make an ultra wide zoom for $399 USD for their mirrorless that is also excellent optical quality.
> 
> when they do get back to me.
> 
> If you are so fond of your Fuji - why are you here?


Yup Canon has compared to competitors decent UWA options for a low price with AF. Same for macro lenses. Atleast for APS-C. Canon gear on the used market is also much more interesting both for buying and selling.


----------



## canonnews (Oct 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Both the sensor and Digic have been used in several other models, I wonder if Canon has fine tuned the production of those to make them cheap enough. The original M50 also had waaaay better specs than its pricepoint would predict.



At the time the M50 got out, the 24MP sensor was used just about everywhere, the M200 even got the 24MP sensor. the rest of the better specs were really just firmware, 4K was lipservice to 4K. The DIGIC hasn't been out in mass quantities yet, and for the most part, neither has the sensor.

Like i said, either the specs are wrong or it's a bargain. We'll see which one holds up soon.


----------



## Czardoom (Oct 3, 2020)

Kane Clements said:


> Hi Nigel.
> 
> Switching wasn’t an easy choice for me. In the end I added up the cost of an R6 plus the cost of the lenses I wanted (because some R glass is so new no chance of used) and for less money I got the X-T4 (I like the crop to increase reach) with the 16-80 and a 100-400 as new used for just over £3000.00. Add in a couple of third party batteries and a couple of extra SD cards and I’m good to go. All weather sealed and great stabilisation.
> 
> ...



I find it laughable that people think that Canon has the largest share of the market and continuing popularity simply because of "fan loyalty." Cameras and lenses are high priced items. People will spend their money wisely. If people find a product that better meets their needs, they will certainly consider the options and will buy into a different brand if it suits their needs. I am sure that I am one of those people that others like you consider to be a "fanboy" simply because I think Canon makes really good cameras and lenses that suit my needs and are easy and fun to shoot with. Might other cameras suit my needs? Sure, but the camera market is in flux right now and the assumption that you seem to be making is that Canon will ignore those 7D II and high-end APS-C shooters. I guess time will tell, but there is no reason to think that more alternatives won't be coming up in the next couple years. Do most camera buyers really need something new every couple years and/or should they switch systems that often because some brand's latest offering is better than what they have now? Only if they are completely impatient. Or have money to throw away.

If Fuji suits your needs, that's great. Denegrating those that don't agree with you and who like what Canon offers is silly. It is quite frankly, "troll-speak." I don't buy Canon because of any brand loyalty. In fact, my main cameras are Olympus. I'm guessing that many other forum members either have - or have tried - other brands. Just like you, we choose what suits our needs.


----------



## tron (Oct 3, 2020)

Nigel95 said:


> Full package with all the bells and whistles of the R6 with an APS-C sensor and R body ergonomics and I am willing to pay 2k
> 
> 
> Yup Canon has compared to competitors decent UWA options for a low price with AF. Same for macro lenses. Atleast for APS-C. Canon gear on the used market is also much more interesting both for buying and selling.


Yet, this will not be the M50 II. Maybe M7 (CR0 or CR1 for now...)


----------



## dcm (Oct 3, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> Thirty years ago there were PC computers with one/two FDDs and an (optional) HDD. An M/RF series camera with a single card slot and an (optional) M.2 drive wouldn't be necessarily a bad idea, I think...
> 
> Call it "Black box" edition and voila!



While at HP, I developed software for this desktop computer with a single FDD nearly 40 years ago and used this laptop 35 years ago. In 1983 we were developing and running Lisp on Unix on that desktop (external HDD, 80 column modification, and lots of memory in an expander). A lot of progress has occurred since then.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 3, 2020)

yoms said:


> Nope, I know the article you're referring to. It's not an official statement at all.


Oops, you're right... but it the end it matters not. I do not believe there will be a 5D Mark V. Using what you are calling "logic" surrounding an "M" model release doesn't make it anymore plausible. M got nothing to do with any 5D.


----------



## David_E (Oct 3, 2020)

marathonman said:


> How long before someone mentions the lack of dual card slots ;-)


And, of course, lack of IBIS. With due respect, do they _*all*_ have Parkinson's disease!? IS is good, but it's worth noting that photographers got along just fine without IS for nearly 180 years.


----------



## koenkooi (Oct 3, 2020)

David_E said:


> And, of course, lack of IBIS. With due respect, do they _*all*_ have Parkinson's disease!? IS is good, but it's worth noting that photographers got along just fine without IS for nearly 180 years.



What I consider "sharp" on an 85mm lens went from 1/200s on the RP to 1/60s on the R5. On the longer end I don't see such a big improvement, but focussing and framing with the 180L became a lot easier with less wiggle in the EVF.

Also, the 180 years is a bad faith argument, only a very short period of that had cameras that didn't require tripods or were too light to filter out shakes.


----------



## Rocky (Oct 3, 2020)

IS, IBIS are always nice to have , when you need it. I am wondering if anybody have done any study to see if the IBIS can affect the sharpness. The reason that I am bringing up the question is that my EF-M 11 -22 loses some edge sharpness with IS even at bright sunlight. It is almost as sharp as my EF-M 22 with IS off


----------



## Andy Westwood (Oct 3, 2020)

M50 has been such a good seller for Canon, priced competitively from the start with decent spec at launch.

I like the M series range as a hobby / travel camera, that could even work, for me at least as a B / C backup. I even pre-ordered the M5 and was pleased with it at the time but then soon after when the cheaper M50 came along with the articulating screen and superior AF I wondered if I should have waited.

I hope Canon don’t ditch the M5 line I would like to see them produce an M5 II but this time it needs to be a clearly better camera than the M50 II otherwise what is the point!


----------



## Dragon (Oct 3, 2020)

Kane Clements said:


> You haven't been paying attention I think.


Fuji clearly makes some nice enthusiast cameras, but the detail that you Fuji fans miss is that the M line is largely bought by folks who want to take better pictures than a bridge camera, but still want portable. The 18-150 lens is very popular with M owners and it is a very good lens (I have 2 of them). The closest thing Fuji has is their 18-135 which is almost twice the weight and twice the price. The vaunted xt4 is also 35% heavier and almost 3 times the price of an M50. When you price it out, the Fuji package is simply more expensive, but most importantly, it is bigger and heavier (actually 40g heavier than an RP) and doesn't stay out of your way like an M6 or M50 does. Please note, I am not dissing Fuji cameras. They are very nice and quite capable. I am just trying to point out that they are in a different market space than the M series cameras.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 3, 2020)

David_E said:


> ...it's worth noting that photographers got along just fine without IS for nearly 180 years.


Yeah, but isn't that a weak and insipid argument against progress? Photographers got by without AF and 35mm film canisters for decades too.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 3, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Yeah, but isn't that a weak and insipid argument against progress? Photographers got by without AF and 35mm film canisters for decades too.


I don't think so, the logical extension of that would be that every camera model needs every technological innovation regardless of cost or actual practicality in that specific instance.

Specifically regarding IBIS, if most of lenses in the model range have IS doesn't that somewhat negate the need for IBIS?


----------



## vxcalais (Oct 3, 2020)

tomsop said:


> I saw someone mention that there will be a follow up to the M5 - I want to upgrade but did not like the M6ii lack of viewfinder. I have the M5. Should I get this one with these rumored specs or is something better coming - I am confused if this is the upgrade I have been waiting for - I know earlier ppl said the m6ii was not much of an upgrade for the m5 and the specs on this m50ii appears to be the same as an m6ii with viewfinder. I don't want to get this if there is something better coming shortly with IBIS or even a full frame M system camera.



Well you could be waiting forever. Technology moves too quickly these days. IBIS will be stock standard in a few years time but at the moment seems to be a big ticket item. By the way the M6ii was a massive upgrade over the M5 in all departments.


----------



## vxcalais (Oct 3, 2020)

David_E said:


> And, of course, lack of IBIS. With due respect, do they _*all*_ have Parkinson's disease!? IS is good, but it's worth noting that photographers got along just fine without IS for nearly 180 years.


Totally agreed. Im not sure how true it is, but some reviews on the A7c wish it never same with ibis it is so bad. The line b/n taking photos vs shooting video is totally blurred. Not even the manufactureres know what to do. Smartphone tech has really impacted the market.


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 3, 2020)

dcm said:


> [...] A lot of progress has occurred since then.


True. But the principles remain (almost) the same...


----------



## jwpatmore (Oct 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I've been hoping for an M5 II for a bit too long, I sold my M5 in futile anticipation but now I'm thinking I can live without it. An R5 and 35 f1.8 and 85 f2 seem like a small enough travel package to me so I'll probably sell the rest of my M lenses and adapter soon.


What lenses do you have? I may buy them and/or the adapter from you!


----------



## koch1948 (Oct 3, 2020)

Andy Westwood said:


> M50 has been such a good seller for Canon, priced competitively from the start with decent spec at launch.
> 
> I like the M series range as a hobby / travel camera, that could even work, for me at least as a B / C backup. I even pre-ordered the M5 and was pleased with it at the time but then soon after when the cheaper M50 came along with the articulating screen and superior AF I wondered if I should have waited.
> 
> I hope Canon don’t ditch the M5 line I would like to see them produce an M5 II but this time it needs to be a clearly better camera than the M50 II otherwise what is the point!


The EOS M50 Mark II will not necessarily replace the EOS M5. The EOS M5 has a 1.62m-dot 3.2” touchscreen and a 1040 mAh LP-E17 battery whereas the existing EOS M50 only has a 1.04m-dot 3.0” touchscreen and an 875 mAh LP-E12 battery.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 3, 2020)

jwpatmore said:


> What lenses do you have? I may buy them and/or the adapter from you!


I have the 22 f2 with a Canon EW-42 metal lens hood, and the genuine Canon adapter, I also have an RRS L-Plate for the M5, a 90EX, and a Canon RA-E3 adapter cable.


----------



## vxcalais (Oct 3, 2020)

Bahrd said:


> True. But the principles remain (almost) the same...


Evf minus no Evf. I use view finder on my film cameras cause I have to, on my m6ii l bracket and gorilla pod never. That rear touch screen is just too good. That is something Canon have just got so right. But everyone is different. If a camera has a built in evf i prefer rangefinder type or none at all. 2 or 3 new lenses would be more beneficial over a new body.


----------



## Czardoom (Oct 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't think so, the logical extension of that would be that every camera model needs every technological innovation regardless of cost or actual practicality in that specific instance.
> 
> Specifically regarding IBIS, if most of lenses in the model range have IS doesn't that somewhat negate the need for IBIS?


I think your question is somewhat revealing as far as many forum participants go. They want specs - whether they need them or not. Of course, there are some folks who have non-IS lenses and can really benefit from IBIS. But so many gear-heads just want the most tech they can get, somehow feeling cheated if a camera doesn't have it all - or have as much as a different brand. All the EF-M lenses have IBIS but one - the 22mm. As an R owner, I am looking at potentially upgrading to the R6. The one spec that means absolutely nothing to me is IBIS, as the two RF lenses and the one EF lens I own all have IBIS.


----------



## dsphatlite (Oct 3, 2020)

IBIS is a nice to have for me. Didn’t build up years of shooting technique to let technology make me lazy There are times where it would of been handy but have managed to overcome that by carrying a second camera that has stabilisation.

I can see the benefit though to all the video shooters though. Watching all those GoPro 9 videos demonstrating Hypersmooth does make me salivate at the possibilities that great stabilisation can bring.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 4, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> I think your question is somewhat revealing as far as many forum participants go. They want specs - whether they need them or not. Of course, there are some folks who have non-IS lenses and can really benefit from IBIS. But so many gear-heads just want the most tech they can get, somehow feeling cheated if a camera doesn't have it all - or have as much as a different brand. All the EF-M lenses have IBIS but one - the 22mm. As an R owner, I am looking at potentially upgrading to the R6. The one spec that means absolutely nothing to me is IBIS, as the two RF lenses and the one EF lens I own all have IBIS.


I pretty much agree but on a note of accuracy the 32mm f1.4 also doesn’t have IS.


----------



## -pekr- (Oct 4, 2020)

I don't understand all the excuses in the IBIS department. I will repeat it for you - no IBIS, no buy, pass, period. I will never ever buy another camera without one. It HAS TO become a commodity, as with the smartphones. Are you going to negletct IBIS on R5 / R6, just because your lens might have IS?


----------



## dsphatlite (Oct 4, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I don't understand all the excuses in the IBIS department. I will repeat it for you - no IBIS, no buy, pass, period. I will never ever buy another camera without one. It HAS TO become a commodity, as with the smartphones. Are you going to negletct IBIS on R5 / R6, just because your lens might have IS?



Nopes, it’s just not a must have for my own use. As many said previously about the EOS M system, I bought into the EOS M system because of the price and size of the camera. IS or IBIS wasn’t in my list of must have. If it has it great, but I am not waiting for it appear before I make the plunge. Would of missed a fair few photos because I was too lazy to carry my DSLR. The EOS M system for me is the right price and size for what I want in a camera.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 4, 2020)

koch1948 said:


> The EOS M50 Mark II will not necessarily replace the EOS M5. The EOS M5 has a 1.62m-dot 3.2” touchscreen and a 1040 mAh LP-E17 battery whereas the existing EOS M50 only has a 1.04m-dot 3.0” touchscreen and an 875 mAh LP-E12 battery.



Again with this.

You're focusing, for some fool reason, on the most insignificant differences between the two models.


----------



## Madbox (Oct 4, 2020)

It's all very nice, but I want that M5 Mark II. I bought my M50 refurb with two lenses to get me started. Now I have a good selection of lenses, and I've adapted other Canon and Pentax lenses. Still some other amazing lenses out there from Sigma and other manufacturers, but I'm waiting on the M5 Mark II. That has always been my plan.

I like my M50, but I'd like it even more if it had a couple of the features found on the M6 Mark II. I could see where the M series was headed when the M6 Mark II came out, and the new full frame R series cameras. I've absolutely no interest in an R series camera with APS-C sensor. I'm really hoping Canon pulls this rabbit out of the hat soon. Money is sitting in the bank waiting.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 4, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't think so, the logical extension of that would be that every camera model needs every technological innovation regardless of cost or actual practicality in that specific instance.
> 
> Specifically regarding IBIS, if most of lenses in the model range have IS doesn't that somewhat negate the need for IBIS?


That depends upon whether or not one has steady hands and whether one owns the non-IS lenses or not. 

As far as logical extension: No, it does not mean that.


----------



## Rocky (Oct 4, 2020)

Hope Canon will come up with a new 15-45 that will have the performance of the 32 1.4 ( except for speed, to keep the size down)


----------



## brad-man (Oct 4, 2020)

I own an M5 and am waiting for an M5 mkll. I am torn on the IBIS issue for this series. On the one hand, the understanding is that size does matter and adding IBIS would have to increase the size of the body and possibly introduce heat issues. I'm too technically challenged to know by how much. It's true that almost all of the EF-M lenses have IS, but those are the "consumer" lenses and not the systems' best, which understandably are the primes.
I have the aforementioned 22 and 32 primes and am entertaining the notion of picking up the Sigma 16 and possibly the 56 if Canon do not release equivalents. Since the primes available for the M series don't have IS (28 macro notwithstanding), it would be nice to have it in camera. To summarize, I don't know what I want...


----------



## Deleted member 68328 (Oct 4, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Oops, you're right... but it the end it matters not. I do not believe there will be a 5D Mark V. Using what you are calling "logic" surrounding an "M" model release doesn't make it anymore plausible. M got nothing to do with any 5D.



I agree, M has nothing to do with the 5D. That's not what I tried to explain. It's how they are related to the R bodies that matters.
- Some say that no 5D Mark V because there's the R5
- So applying the same logic, why making a M50 Mark II when Canon could easily make an APS-C R body?

Honestly, what's really the future of the M series once an APS-C R body is released? I do not think I'm wrong, maybe just early, i.e. Canon focusing on FF R bodies for the time being had no time to develop an APS-C R body, so did this ezpz refresh.

Also, it's interesting to note that Nikon keeps saying that they remain involved in DSLR (officially) and that rumors of a Z8 camera also point to a D850 replacement camera sharing the same sensor. It would be odd, at least to me, to see Nikon releasing a D850 replacement while Canon does nothing. They used to "move together".


----------



## Bahrd (Oct 4, 2020)

yoms said:


> Also, it's interesting to note that Nikon keeps saying that they remain involved in DSLR (officially) and that rumors of a Z8 camera also point to a D850 replacement camera sharing the same sensor. It would be odd, at least to me, to see Nikon releasing a D850 replacement while Canon does nothing. They used to "move together".


The TDP guy has recently reported that a R5 with a two-battery grip allows for 4000+ images and no viewfinder blackout... 

PS
As a side note: an IBIS, to be useful in the OVF mode, has to be connected to a mirror box assembly. I suspect it would rather be difficult to compensate the mirror motion inside such a floating cage.


----------



## Gino_FOTO (Oct 4, 2020)

No IBIS, no fun, seriously, what a joy that would be, especially in combination with 32mm f/1.4.


----------



## koenkooi (Oct 4, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I pretty much agree but on a note of accuracy the 32mm f1.4 also doesn’t have IS.



The Sigma EF-M primes lack IS as well. The 56mm f/1.4 gives great results, I haven't tried the others.


----------



## SnowMiku (Oct 4, 2020)

I hope they will add a shutter release cable port this time, otherwise I'll be sticking with my 700D. I know you can get Bluetooth remotes these days but I don't want the hassle of another battery that could possibly die in the middle of doing star trails.


----------



## Daan Stam (Oct 4, 2020)

that is a killer little camera.


----------



## ashmadux (Oct 4, 2020)

NO.IBIS.

WTH? These bodies already have issues with shutter shock, it's the main reason I can't rely on my m50 and have been awaiting new model. Elec shutter has its own limitations.

32mp in a cheap no weight body(m50 feels fragile as hell) and no ibis means blurry pics everywhere, exactly what my experience was with this M50. The lens oc can only do so much, and there won't be any grips at all not even the metal plates, as Asian 3rd party companies seems to have given up on making accesories for the M line. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but my fotodiox metal grip made me m1 actually usable).

This is only the second Canon body that I've bought that's been for the most part unusable for me...I've never been able to bring it to one shoot because I couldn't consistently get good pictures with it. 

Super dissapointed, eventually I'll just wait for the tests to see if the AF is better than the m62. Goddamnit, I really needed that ibis for what I'll be using it for. Argh


----------



## dsphatlite (Oct 4, 2020)

ashmadux said:


> NO.IBIS.
> 
> WTH? These bodies already have issues with shutter shock, it's the main reason I can't rely on my m50 and have been awaiting new model. Elec shutter has its own limitations.



Are there not any other cameras you can use? Or is a Canon a must for you?

I get that users want IBIS but if a company doesn’t do what you want go elsewhere. I personally switched from Nikon because they didn’t have a mirrorless line at the time that suited what I wanted. Didn’t go Sony because they couldn’t design a UI that is easy to use/understand.

Still have the Nikon gear that I will use from time to time, but switched to EOS M purely for the weight, compactness and ease of use.

Vote with your feet if something comes up short.

So far my Sigma 30mm prime has come up a treat when I used it for a party shoot yesterday. Worked well at night with minimal fuss and only a couple of handshake photos. IBIS would be the icing on the cake, but not holding my breath.


----------



## hachu21 (Oct 4, 2020)

IBIS can't avoid blur with moving people in low light, that's why, for me, it's usefullness is limited to static subjects and long focal ranges.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 4, 2020)

I am astounded at how, all of the sudden IBIS is an absolute must-have for so many people. I guess Canon's pre R5 and R6 models must have all been worthless.

This is the frigging M50 we are talking about here; it's one step above entry level (M100/200). It sells for something like 600 bucks. What the hell do you expect?


----------



## -pekr- (Oct 4, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I am astounded at how, all of the sudden IBIS is an absolute must-have for so many people. I guess Canon's pre R5 and R6 models must have all been worthless.
> 
> This is the frigging M50 we are talking about here; it's one step above entry level (M100/200). It sells for something like 600 bucks. What the hell do you expect?



You are clever enough to know the answer, so why such a mental parade? Those pesky situations, where you wish to find a balance to the raised ISO, the shutter speed and avoidance to get a blurry image. IBIS was always useful, we just had to always live with the limitation.

It's 2020, but keep living in the stone age, if you wish so. I bet that the majority of ppl would pay 100 or 200 more, to have IBIS onboard.


----------



## Nigel95 (Oct 4, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I bet that the majority of ppl would pay 100 or 200 more, to have IBIS onboard.


For sure probably even more. Would love to have IBIS with my Sigma 18-35mm and Canon 60mm.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 4, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> It's 2020, but keep living in the stone age, if you wish so. I bet that the majority of ppl would pay 100 or 200 more, to have IBIS onboard.



The majority of _us_ (i.e., the sorts of people interested enough in photography to post in a place like this) would be willing to do so...and in many cases we _did,_ paying a LOT more than a mere 100-200 for a camera with IBIS.

The M50 is not meant for _us._ Begging for a feature that we know is expensive and saying we're willing to pay extra for it, is simply telling Canon that we're really interested in a different model, please upsell us. They're not going to abandon the M50s price point because some of their customers would rather have a more expensive camera. Especially not when the M50 as it is today sells VERY well. But somehow people saw this as an announcement of a latest and greatest model and assess it on that basis, instead of the one they should be using, which is: is it a good camera _for its price point?_ 

It absolutely is. Your complaint is off base because you're complaining it's inappropriate for a price point it's not even aimed at.

(And for the record: I personally own a (no mark number) M50 and never noticed this problem, perhaps because I usually adapt a big-ass lens on it (e.g., a Tamron 18-400) that may be heavy enough to damp the vibration, or even sometimes a native EF-M Tamron 18-200, which again is bigger and heavier than anything Canon ever made for the M series. That being said, I've hardly used it since I got my M6-II (which would be that higher model, even if it has no IBIS).)


----------



## stevelee (Oct 4, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't think so, the logical extension of that would be that every camera model needs every technological innovation regardless of cost or actual practicality in that specific instance.
> 
> Specifically regarding IBIS, if most of lenses in the model range have IS doesn't that somewhat negate the need for IBIS?


What I read suggests that IBIS is least effective on longer lenses where the need for IS is the greatest. It certainly would come in handy on wider lenses without IS. Of course if putting lens and body IS together is as successfully implemented as I have read that it is, then it can be truly amazing over a wide range. That does not mean that we all need it.


----------



## privatebydesign (Oct 4, 2020)

stevelee said:


> What I read suggests that IBIS is least effective on longer lenses where the need for IS is the greatest. It certainly would come in handy on wider lenses without IS. Of course if putting lens and body IS together is as successfully implemented as I have read that it is, then it can be truly amazing over a wide range. That does not mean that we all need it.


My point was to look at this from Canon's point of view, they sell a lot of M's and almost all in a kit with the 15-45, the 18-55, or the 18-150, all three of those lenses already have IS, as do almost all the lenses in the M range.

Canon gain practically nothing by putting IBIS in a body it is unusual to sell without a lens that already has IS. From a business perspective, not apologists or fanboy perspective, it makes little sense for Canon to put IBIS into the M, certainly the middle and lower model ranges.


----------



## canonnews (Oct 4, 2020)

ashmadux said:


> NO.IBIS.
> 
> WTH? These bodies already have issues with shutter shock, it's the main reason I can't rely on my m50 and have been awaiting new model. Elec shutter has its own limitations.


IBIS doesn't correct for shutter shock - actually it tends to exasperate it.
EFCS is needed for shutter shock - which the M50 has.


----------



## Madbox (Oct 4, 2020)

tomsop said:


> I saw someone mention that there will be a follow up to the M5 - I want to upgrade but did not like the M6ii lack of viewfinder. I have the M5. Should I get this one with these rumored specs or is something better coming - I am confused if this is the upgrade I have been waiting for - I know earlier ppl said the m6ii was not much of an upgrade for the m5 and the specs on this m50ii appears to be the same as an m6ii with viewfinder. I don't want to get this if there is something better coming shortly with IBIS or even a full frame M system camera.



I bought my M50 as an upgrade from the Olympus zoom cameras I'd been using for years. I wanted the ability to have and use different lenses. The M50 got me into a bigger sensor and a fair selection of lenses inexpensively. People who say the M series cameras don't have a decent selection of lenses aren't really looking, and are just repeating what they've hear from others. I'm using EF, EF-S, M, and Pentax lenses just fine, and I'm waiting for the M5 Mark II to buy some Sigmas and others.

After my M50 purchase, I discovered what makes that camera different from the higher end M5 and M6 Mark II. My blooming interest in astro, infrared and macro photography showed me. The little M50 is a great camera, very capable, speedy, lightweight, has simplicity, and is terrific for stills photography. I expect all that and more with the Mark II. It's bigger brothers have the additional technical tricks that allow for a wider range of photo capabilities. Two seemingly simple additions can make a difference: focus bracketing for easier macro photography and a shutter control port for astrophotography. You can do those things the hard way with an M50 and additional hardware, but it's all done in camera with the likes of the M6 Mark II. Everyone hates it not having the EVF built in, but the M6 never has. The M5 does however, and looking at the recently released M series cameras, it's easy to see what the Mark II will be.

Be aware there won't be an M series full frame camera that uses M series lenses. Like putting tiny wheels on your car. Full frame needs bigger lenses like the RF and EF. They don't even adapt the smaller lenses, and if you did, it would be horribly vignetted. That's not to say they couldn't make an M series camera with the big RF mount like what Nikon did with the Z50. Those big lenses are heavy and expensive. I may eventually go that route, but for now I'm really liking my better bang for the buck with M series cameras and lenses, and I'm perfectly happy puttering along with an M50 while I wait. When the new M5 Mark II comes out with all it's new tricks, I'll be all over it.


----------



## Madbox (Oct 4, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> GH5 is a much bigger camera with a smaller sensor but it is weather sealed unlike M50


The M50 body only is $500 and the GH5 is $1200+


----------



## Madbox (Oct 4, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Yeah, but isn't that a weak and insipid argument against progress? Photographers got by without AF and 35mm film canisters for decades too.


Was the first half of your statement even needed, or was it just to make you feel superior?


----------



## Madbox (Oct 4, 2020)

brad-man said:


> I own an M5 and am waiting for an M5 mkll. I am torn on the IBIS issue for this series. On the one hand, the understanding is that size does matter and adding IBIS would have to increase the size of the body and possibly introduce heat issues. I'm too technically challenged to know by how much. It's true that almost all of the EF-M lenses have IS, but those are the "consumer" lenses and not the systems' best, which understandably are the primes.
> I have the aforementioned 22 and 32 primes and am entertaining the notion of picking up the Sigma 16 and possibly the 56 if Canon do not release equivalents. Since the primes available for the M series don't have IS (28 macro notwithstanding), it would be nice to have it in camera. To summarize, I don't know what I want...


I think you're doing just fine. I'm also waiting, and I think the M5 Mark II will be an amazing camera. I don't believe there will be much problem adding IBIS to the Mark II. It's been in other cameras that are smaller for years. I'm excited about IS and IBIS working together. It's not cheating to have these features, it's all about capturing the light. Easy enough to take a terrible picture with the finest and most expensive of cameras and lenses.

I keep eyeballing the Sigma primes. They'll be my present to myself when the Mark II comes out. I can wait a bit.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 4, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I don't understand all the excuses in the IBIS department. I will repeat it for you - no IBIS, no buy, pass, period. I will never ever buy another camera without one. It HAS TO become a commodity, as with the smartphones. Are you going to negletct IBIS on R5 / R6, just because your lens might have IS?


How many smartphones have IBIS?


----------



## zim (Oct 4, 2020)

Kit. said:


> How many smartphones have IBIS?


I think the one on HarryFilm's desk has IBIS


----------



## peters (Oct 4, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> [email protected]!? If you thought there were overheating problems with the R5 and R6, just wait for this camera...just a Wild Guess.


lower res sensor, only half thrle sensor size... shouldnt be a problem. Many other aps-c cameras havr lle 4k60


----------



## dsphatlite (Oct 4, 2020)

Madbox said:


> I bought my M50 as an upgrade from the Olympus zoom cameras I'd been using for years. I wanted the ability to have and use different lenses. The M50 got me into a bigger sensor and a fair selection of lenses inexpensively. People who say the M series cameras don't have a decent selection of lenses aren't really looking, and are just repeating what they've hear from others. I'm using EF, EF-S, M, and Pentax lenses just fine, and I'm waiting for the M5 Mark II to buy some Sigmas and others.



I hear you on that one. Allowed me to switchover relatively inexpensively. Switched over with an EOS M3 and haven’t looked back since. Perfect camera for what I need and I suspect a lot of other users. It’s sized and price very well.
When I was looking at upgrading my M3, I looked at the RF mount cameras and price of body and lenses was a bridge to far. So went with the M6 Mark 2 and Sigma Primes


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 4, 2020)

Madbox said:


> Was the first half of your statement even needed, or was it just to make you feel superior?


Your interpretation of my mindset on this is wayyyyyy off. You'd do better to just keep talking to yourself, or quit trying to stir poop where there ain't none. But thanks for taking the time to comment. I now feel superior to at least one human after this.


----------



## stevelee (Oct 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> How many smartphones have IBIS?


The iPhone has had some sort of optical stabilization under gyroscopic control since about iPhone 6.


----------



## -pekr- (Oct 5, 2020)

SteveC said:


> The majority of _us_ (i.e., the sorts of people interested enough in photography to post in a place like this) would be willing to do so...and in many cases we _did,_ paying a LOT more than a mere 100-200 for a camera with IBIS.
> 
> The M50 is not meant for _us._ Begging for a feature that we know is expensive and saying we're willing to pay extra for it, is simply telling Canon that we're really interested in a different model, please upsell us. They're not going to abandon the M50s price point because some of their customers would rather have a more expensive camera. Especially not when the M50 as it is today sells VERY well. But somehow people saw this as an announcement of a latest and greatest model and assess it on that basis, instead of the one they should be using, which is: is it a good camera _for its price point?_
> 
> ...



Your answer of course makes sense. But it is difficult to accept for me, if there are no other models to have IBIS with? Of course if it would be clear, that the M5 II or the M6 III are in the pipeline or at least planned, I would not bring up the argument. So once again, I will patiently wait, as I did with the R and RP and now I can collect the money to get R5 for our wedding business, which finally has the features I wished for.


----------



## -pekr- (Oct 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> How many smartphones have IBIS?



Mostly all of the smartphones, which deserve being called smartphones.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 5, 2020)

stevelee said:


> The iPhone has had some sort of optical stabilization under gyroscopic control since about iPhone 6.


It's not IBIS, as far as I know.



-pekr- said:


> Mostly all of the smartphones, which deserve being called smartphones.


Isn't that an instance of No True Scotsman fallacy?

But anyway, any example?


----------



## Joules (Oct 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> It's not IBIS, as far as I know.


What even is IBIS on a smartphone? Its not like lens and sensor are really two different parts of the camera. I believe in some models, the entire assembly moves, rather than just the lens or just the sensor.

Anyway, some Pixel devices have it. Most iPhones.


----------



## dsphatlite (Oct 5, 2020)

The whole assembly is in one part. From memory they use small magnets to keep the lens aassembly essentially floating in the main assembly.
This is all from memory and not sure if this is the method they use now.

Great technique to use in what is a tiny area.


----------



## Kit Chan (Oct 5, 2020)

Stomphk said:


> Very simple to classify the M body:
> 
> 1. m50 mark 2: 8 bit 4K 60p, no ibis, no clean hdmi out for external recording. use webcam utility to grab clean image for webmeetkng or livestreaming.
> 
> ...


I would expect M50 mk2 to have clean HDMI.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 5, 2020)

Joules said:


> What even is IBIS on a smartphone?


It's when the sensor moves w.r.t the mainboard.



Joules said:


> Its not like lens and sensor are really two different parts of the camera.


You could say the same about any fixed-lens camera. Still, as far as I know, all of them that have IS have it in the lens.



Joules said:


> I believe in some models, the entire assembly moves, rather than just the lens or just the sensor.


Isn't the entire camera assembly firmly soldered to a fixed camera module PCB (if not directly to the mainboard) in smartphones?


----------



## Rocksthaman (Oct 5, 2020)

Joules said:


> What even is IBIS on a smartphone? Its not like lens and sensor are really two different parts of the camera. I believe in some models, the entire assembly moves, rather than just the lens or just the sensor.
> 
> Anyway, some Pixel devices have it. Most iPhones.



There is definitely ibis in phones. If you see a big camera bump, ibis is in there. You can hear a audible shake many times.


----------



## Durf (Oct 5, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I am astounded at how, all of the sudden IBIS is an absolute must-have for so many people. I guess Canon's pre R5 and R6 models must have all been worthless.
> 
> This is the frigging M50 we are talking about here; it's one step above entry level (M100/200). It sells for something like 600 bucks. What the hell do you expect?



It's like for the last few years many would consider a camera a piece of junk if it didn't shoot 4K, yet even today huge numbers of people still shoot 1080p with camera's that have 4K! LOL
In my opinion today there is really a low percentage of people that actually work and process 4K video's. 
For me as a mostly landscape and nature photographer, IBIS is like 4K, a novelty.....


----------



## -pekr- (Oct 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> It's not IBIS, as far as I know.
> 
> 
> Isn't that an instance of No True Scotsman fallacy?
> ...



I prefer True Scotch whiskey instead of your No True Scotsman fallacy! 

Maybe you should stop nitpicking. Image stabilisation uses multiple techniques, SW, HW, combination. Lens, sensor:









Image stabilization - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Situation is identical with the smartphones. Most call it OIS. Getting data from gyroscope, the whole compartment of the lens is moved, whatever "lens" means in terms of smartphones. Some (as Oppo), move the sensor ... but - for me, is is still an In body Image Stabilisation, HW related.


----------



## Joules (Oct 5, 2020)

Kit. said:


> You could say the same about any fixed-lens camera. Still, as far as I know, all of them that have IS have it in the lens.


I mainly find it odd to think of a smartphone camera the same way as an ILC. As Smartphones are a single piece, even if the lens moves, it is still 'In body' in a sense to me.

Nonetheless, if you are asking about a smartphone that has a moving sensor, I can't provide an example. I believe to have seen a video of an entire module being moved for stabilization, rather than just the lens or sensor. But, I can't find it, so maybe that was just things getting mixed up or not an actual product.


Rocksthaman said:


> There is definitely ibis in phones. If you see a big camera bump, ibis is in there. You can hear a audible shake many times.


The presence of noise does not mean that the sensor moves. It can just as well be the lens, which appears to be the norm based on a bit of research I just did.


----------



## stevelee (Oct 5, 2020)

How do you tell when your phone has an out of body experience?


----------



## stevelee (Oct 5, 2020)

Durf said:


> It's like for the last few years many would consider a camera a piece of junk if it didn't shoot 4K, yet even today huge numbers of people still shoot 1080p with camera's that have 4K! LOL
> In my opinion today there is really a low percentage of people that actually work and process 4K video's.
> For me as a mostly landscape and nature photographer, IBIS is like 4K, a novelty.....


I don't shoot much video, but if I'm using my iPhone or G5X II, I'll shoot 4K and edit in FCP X. Even though my computer is 6 years old, it handles 4K just fine. I don't think I've ever used 4K as my final output, other than as a test for my own consumption. I'd rather use the computer software for zooming and cropping than baking it in with the phone's digital zoom. And of course I have the same option with the camera if I want to go beyond what optical zoom I used. And for both, having a wider view and extra pixels gives more options for stabilization effects. But I don't choose either device over my DSLR if it is available, even though it doesn't shoot 4K, except for time lapse. 

I think the G5X II uses optical IS. Additional video IS comes through the crop method. For stills, I found whatever IS was at work to be impressive. I took handheld shots at dark from our balcony on a moving ship as we left Venice. They came out rather sharp. Of course bright lights shining in a dark scene tend to spread, so it is hard to tell how much their appearance is from that and how much from camera motion. Pixel peeping is not impressive, but more from noise in the darkest areas than from motion. I plan to get around to making one or more 13" x 19" prints, and they should come out OK.


----------



## hachu21 (Oct 5, 2020)

Ibis in smartphones : one tech preview from Oppo 2016, one rumor for apple 2020, but still no actual product.








SmartSensor Image Stabilization and Super VOOC: Oppo at MWC 2016


Oppo did not have new phones to show at the MWC, but the advanced technology it did show off made us wish there was at least one new...




www.gsmarena.com












2020 iPhone rumored to feature sensor-shift image stabilization camera system


A report from Digitimes today says that Apple is planning to include a more advanced image stabilization component in the high-end 2020 iPhone models. The iPhone has included optical image stabilization for a while now, and sensor shift hardware improvements continues that trend. Whereas optical...




9to5mac.com


----------



## Nigel95 (Oct 5, 2020)

Durf said:


> It's like for the last few years many would consider a camera a piece of junk if it didn't shoot 4K, yet even today huge numbers of people still shoot 1080p with camera's that have 4K! LOL
> In my opinion today there is really a low percentage of people that actually work and process 4K video's.
> For me as a mostly landscape and nature photographer, IBIS is like 4K, a novelty.....


There is nothing wrong with 'quality' 1080p footage. Look at the Arri cameras, their 1080p it's beautiful. Where as some smartphone can record in 8k and it's totally garbage if you compare it to Arri 1080p.

However IMO most Canon DSLR 1080p footage is extremely soft and mushy (even with the sharpest lenses available). Okay for a vlog to hide imperfections on your skin. Not something I want personally when I make something like a nature video, where I want the details and colors to pop more. This is why I would like to have a Canon camera with 4k as it does a much better job in showing details and better color reproduction. If Canon could improve their 1080p footage that's totally fine for me. The only thing I care about is the end result not if it has the label 1080p or 4k.


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 5, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Your answer of course makes sense. But it is difficult to accept for me, if there are no other models to have IBIS with? Of course if it would be clear, that the M5 II or the M6 III are in the pipeline or at least planned, I would not bring up the argument. So once again, I will patiently wait, as I did with the R and RP and now I can collect the money to get R5 for our wedding business, which finally has the features I wished for.


He also makes the assumption that IBIS is expensive. I don't think anyone here has any idea what it costs.


----------



## bainsybike (Oct 6, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I prefer True Scotch whiskey instead of your No True Scotsman fallacy!


No such thing as "True Scotch whiskey". It's whisky.


----------



## Kit. (Oct 6, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> He also makes the assumption that IBIS is expensive. I don't think anyone here has any idea what it costs.


It costs about half a centimeter in the depth dimension. Which is quite a lot for M50.


----------



## stevelee (Oct 6, 2020)

bainsybike said:


> No such thing as "True Scotch whiskey". It's whisky.


There are Scotch whisky and Irish whiskey. When we visited the Old Bushmills distillery, our guide explained that the "e" stood for "excellence."


----------



## jwpatmore (Oct 6, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I have the 22 f2 with a Canon EW-42 metal lens hood, and the genuine Canon adapter, I also have an RRS L-Plate for the M5, a 90EX, and a Canon RA-E3 adapter cable.


I'd be interested in the 22mm and Genuine Canon Adapter!


----------



## SteveC (Oct 6, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> He also makes the assumption that IBIS is expensive. I don't think anyone here has any idea what it costs.



If "He" means me, no I was riffing off of pekr's willingness to pay 100-200 extra for IBIS. Not terribly expensive. But not *zero* either.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Oct 6, 2020)

stevelee said:


> The iPhone has had some sort of optical stabilization under gyroscopic control since about iPhone 6.


Quite a lot of smartphones have optical stabilization.
That does not have much to do with IBIS.
Sensor shift stabilization in smartphones is quite rare.


----------



## stevelee (Oct 14, 2020)

One or more of the new iPhone models announced today have a shifting sensor on one camera.

There is also a kind of camera raw option that preserves output from different cameras. Ten-bit video will be on some phones.


----------

