# Describe the 6D in one word...



## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

Anyone got anything else?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 17, 2012)

I think its a upgrade path from Rebel users and those who want FF at the lowest price point. Like all products, some will find it fits their needs, and others will prefer something different.
Canon is good at having a wide range of products - something for everyone.
I ordered one of the $2750 5D MK III's, I'd not try to save 500 for the 6D, if it turns out as expected. However, I'd certainly consider it if I was moving up from a Rebel.


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## JimKarczewski (Sep 17, 2012)

I want to know why they are including GPS when I have to spend extra $$$$ to get that on my 1Dx. It's a crock of smelly horse ****. Sorry, more than one word, but I think Canon has their head firmly planed up their a$$es sometimes.


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## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

Yeah, the more I think about it, it's a FF Rebel more than anything, with the SD card and Scene Modes.

But then i think about my friends with Rebels (well, mostly xxxD and one Kiss because he got it from Japan). Almost all of them have EFs lenses, barring a few with a 50/1.8 II (I even know someone with a 17-55/2.8 on an 1100D).
So if they upgrade to the 6D, yes, for them it's a genuine upgrade. But they'll have to get a whole new lens kit anyway.
With this release, Canon's banking on the fact that most of them won't bother changing systems out of 'subconscious loyalty' (or whatever you want to call it), ignorance that the D600 exists and is way better, or that they really like DPP being free (if they use it at all, i know most of my friends don't), or they're like my mother and have a genuine phobia of second-hand and won't get a 5D2.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Although I abstained so as to not taint the vote, I have to say "I'm excited! No, really!".
Because I didn't get around to listing my 5D2 for sale yet! ;D


EDIT: although now i'm worried it might be 11 cross, 1 super precision and hidden assits, in which case i may have just taken a soaking on my used 5D2, damn new i needed to get it sold last week.... but so busy shooting stuff


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## mitchell3417 (Sep 17, 2012)

An AF system away from something.


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## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

One sentence: Death knell of APS-C DSLRs above the Rebel line.


Woops, it is still $2000, not $1400, tsk.


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## distant.star (Sep 17, 2012)

.
Several words come to mind.

However, I'm biting my tongue until I read a Canon press release.

Let them have their say; then I'll have mine.


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## mirekti (Sep 17, 2012)

distant.star said:


> .
> Several words come to mind.
> 
> However, I'm biting my tongue until I read a Canon press release.
> ...



Will that be on their global site?


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## victorwol (Sep 17, 2012)

Not interested...


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## DB (Sep 17, 2012)

It's a *video-DSLR* for former Rebel users who have acquired a few prime lenses and they want to study film in college, so will sell their $700-1000 crop body and buy the 6D instead.


Who's to say that Canon won't discontinue the 5D2 before end-2012 (the 6D will be available from October) and then all of those aspiring Indie-filmmakers will have no option, but to get a 6D. They care more about ISO and low light + 60fps than they do about DR or AFMA (never mind AI Servo), plus for video an SDXC card is perfectly adequate as long as it can write at 5MB or 10MB/sec.

Also if this sensor (like the T4i) has continuous AF in video and is compatible with the new STM lenses, it will be a huge incentive to get this body and not a used 5D2


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## chrisdeckard (Sep 17, 2012)

One word? Sixdy! hah!

Let's see what Canon says for real on it.


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## stipotle (Sep 17, 2012)

"Maybe."

(to be seen: High ISO noise handling, AF, AFMA)

Also 1 word to everyone going nuts already: "Relax."


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## EchoLocation (Sep 17, 2012)

insulting.
if they think i'm going to pay 2100 dollars for that, then i am definitely insulted. As someone who owns a 5DC and a 24-105(with some other stuff too,) I can honestly say that the D600 destroys this camera spec wise. And based on the sensor/DR ratings of the D800 vs 5DIII I don't have much faith that the sensor will be as good as the Nikon's.... much less surpass it.
I don't even consider this as an upgrade to the 5DII, and that camera was $1900 new a year ago, with tons of free stuff from Adorama(and I didn't buy it then.)
This camera is DOA for me.


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## jdramirez (Sep 17, 2012)

If the initial price point is 2100... I think it will sink to 1700 after a year. But I still would prefer to get a 5d mk ii refurb from Canon. The problem is that those will go out of stock before I can save up the cash to do so. Crap. I guess a refurb 6D from Canon is on the horizon for me.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Right with you guys on this one. Not interested. A FF sensor in a Rebel body for a big price jump.... too big for the typical Rebel customer who won't know that sensors come in different sizes. I'd vote "FF Rebel" but I have to vote "Meh" for obvious reasons.


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## Fatalv (Sep 17, 2012)

My one word... "Fail". Basically a 5DMK2 w/ built in GPS/WIFI. Why even waste the time designing a new sensor? Why charge the pro body users for GPS/WIFI?? This is irritating. Why not recycle an existing AF that's popular (like the 7D).

Not sure what Canon was thinking on this one. I guess time will tell. I'll be interested to see how well this sells.


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## Zlatko (Sep 17, 2012)

It's not "a Rebel body".

It appears to be a lighter, smaller version of the 5D2, with an SD card slot instead of CF. It is almost the same size as, and a little lighter than, a 7D. It likely offers much better high ISO than either a 7D or 5D2 (it has the same ISO range as the 5D3). 

I'll be interested to learn more about the autofocus: how good overall, how many cross-type AF points and does it offer AFMA?

Keep in mind that the 5D2 was introduced at $2,700 and is now $1,900. That's a 26% price reduction over 4 years. If this new 6D has the same price reduction, it will drop to $1,475 over four years.


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## Axilrod (Sep 17, 2012)

DB said:


> It's a *video-DSLR* for former Rebel users who have acquired a few prime lenses and they want to study film in college, so will sell their $700-1000 crop body and buy the 6D instead.
> 
> Who's to say that Canon won't discontinue the 5D2 before end-2012 (the 6D will be available from October) and then all of those aspiring Indie-filmmakers will have no option, but to get a 6D. They care more about ISO and low light + 60fps than they do about DR or AFMA (never mind AI Servo), plus for video an SDXC card is perfectly adequate as long as it can write at 5MB or 10MB/sec.
> 
> Also if this sensor (like the T4i) has continuous AF in video and is compatible with the new STM lenses, it will be a huge incentive to get this body and not a used 5D2



I didn't see 1080p60 on the spec list, but I think it's ridiculous that it (and every other Canon DSLR doesn't have 1080p60 while the $600 Sony A57 and lots of other much cheaper cameras do.

And I don't think indie filmmakers will only have the 6D as an option, the 5D2 was one of the best-selling DSLR's of all time and there are more than I can count on Craigslist right now and I'm sure they'll be around for a while. And there are lots of other alternatives coming around, I think Canon is slipping, I hate to say it but it's true.


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## DarkKnightNine (Sep 17, 2012)

As an owner of the 5D Mark III and 1DX, this camera with it's shiny new built-in Wifi and GPS just feels like a giant kick it the balls. At the very least Canon should have built-in the wireless radio transmitter for firing the new flashes into the 1D series bodies. That would have proven that they had their customers needs in mind over lining their pockets with huge profit margins. Yes they would have made less profit than selling it as a separate unit but still won out in mind share (which leads to larger profits in the long run). As long as we just keep forking over our hard earned money without complaint, Canon has no reason to ever consider changing. It's time we get pissed off over their ridiculous corporate greed of late and voice it.


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## EchoLocation (Sep 17, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> It's not "a Rebel body".
> 
> It appears to be a lighter, smaller version of the 5D2, with an SD card slot instead of CF. It is almost the same size as, and a little lighter than, a 7D. It likely offers much better high ISO than either a 7D or 5D2 (it has the ISO range of the 5D3).
> 
> ...


In four years the D600 will still be same price as this camera, and will still have much better specs. And I won't be using a DSLR(hopefully), and instead will be using a very similar spec'd D600, but in a mirroless, interchangeable lens body.


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## Zlatko (Sep 17, 2012)

Every time Canon introduces a camera, there is whining about alleged "greediness" and building things "just for profit". As usual, people are screaming "that's the last straw" and saying they're switching to another brand.

I tried two other brands for an extended period of time, spending quite a lot of money and time on them. My theory was that the grass must be greener across the fence. But working with the other brands made me realize that Canon's stuff is really outstanding, and the other brands weren't any better; they were actually worse in some important details.


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## Zlatko (Sep 17, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> In four years the D600 will still be same price as this camera, and will still have much better specs. And I won't be using a DSLR(hopefully), and instead will be using a very similar spec'd D600, but in a mirroless, interchangeable lens body.


Good luck with that. But not everything is in the specs. You have to use a camera to really see if it's better or worse.


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## onkel_wart (Sep 17, 2012)

I want one -- I think some details are too overrated. Too much of a marketing race (right term?) with Nikon. Not all features are really that important


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

itsreallyscott said:


> Man 'Screw-Canon' (hyphen to make "one word")
> SO basically I spent $1500 for weather sealing on my 5Diii. Plus the $800 on wifi; and to get GPS another $280. The release of the 6D is my tipping point, Canon camera only cares about profit, not innovation. The 5Diii was not the best camera Canon could have released at that price, they intentionally hold back just for profit. The iPhone5 was just released only one year later with better everything then its predecessor and at the same price point; not only that it has better tech then my 5Diii and only cost $167 in material to make. http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4396139/IPhone-5-bill-of-materials-comes-in--167-50?itc=edit_stub
> More evidence is the dumbing down of sensors, I'm sure the 6D picture will be 'almost as good' as the 5Diii. The new T4i with Digic 5 should outperform the 7D but Canon wants to keep the out dated 7D selling at least for another year given the recent firmware updates.
> I'll keep my Canon cameras because of the lenses, but the fact is others have already beat Canon for less and Canon releases this.



Do you think it's something new that electronics companies (or any company for that matter) has different products at different price points in their line up? They're all cameras so there has to be some differentiation in features, quality, etc. to justify the price.


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## photogaz (Sep 17, 2012)

Embarrassing!


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## Bennymiata (Sep 17, 2012)

I reckon it will make a great 2nd body to my 5D3, even if it is mainly used for video.

Now I can retire my overworked old 60D with over 100,000 shutter actuations and still going strong!

There is always new tech in every new camera.
Some of you are whining because it has GPS and wireless, but I could imagine how much you would whine if it had nothing new in it!

You can't please all of the people all the time...................................

Oh yes, and the price will come down within 6 or so months and then it will be quite affordable too.


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## kentandersen (Sep 17, 2012)

this thread makes me think about how the fanclub of Mac is reacting to everything new. They start crying of joy and lining up to buy stuff, no matter what they release. Hard core Canon users are almost always disatisfied with what canon bring to the market, still they keep using their stuff.

The big reason why canon can afford to dissapoint their user, is that the market for DSLR are booming. Even though they are loosing market share, they are still increasing their production. So, they have probably made their choice, earn money now, hold back the best and when the rising dslr market has been mature its time to shock release inovation again. Or, it is just stupidity behind it. They have grown like a dinosour and have lost the inovation culture, like Sony has done. If so, then the other brands are going to eat a larger part of the cake in 2-3 year. Nikon is definently going to be the big winner here.

The price will fall. As soon as production is up, it will fall with some hundred. It will probably end up right above the 7d price before the summer.


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## mjardeen (Sep 17, 2012)

As usual the complaining starts because either it has something a more expensive camera does not have, or it does not spray unicorn poop and flowers.

This camera is not meant to replace the 5D2, that was the 5D3. The recent pricing of the 5D2 was done to sell off the stock that Canon had in channel and warehouses, as well as serve as a temporary place filler. For those of use who have a 5D (like me) this camera is an upgrade, for those who have any crop camer this is a bridge camera designed to get people into full frame. For the 1st time both Canon and Nikon have full frame cameras in the 2k range!!

For those who complain that the 6D isn't a D600, who gives a rats ass other than those who chew specs. I own 5 full frame lenses and have an IR converted 20D. This new camera becomes my standard color body and my 5D gets IR converted. Perhaps I will get two and IR convert one. The point is that my price point just got sweeter for full frame. 5D2 used bodies will drop to around 1500 so maybe I get two of those, either way I have more options.

Rejoice and stop bitching people.


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## AvTvM (Sep 17, 2012)

piece of cr*p! 

20D, 5D I ... AF .. all over!

For USD 999,- it would have been a lame "FF-Rebel". At USD 2100,- Canon is committing sppuku.
Double homerun for Nikon. D800. ANd even the weak D600 scores big time. 

Canon ... go home!


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## sandymandy (Sep 17, 2012)

I like it. Price gonna drop in the future and then theres no way im gonna get the 7D with its APS-C sensor...fullframe all the way


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## mitkomitashki (Sep 17, 2012)

FF 1200D


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> insulting.
> if they think i'm going to pay 2100 dollars for that, then i am definitely insulted. As someone who owns a 5DC and a 24-105(with some other stuff too,) I can honestly say that the D600 destroys this camera spec wise. And based on the sensor/DR ratings of the D800 vs 5DIII I don't have much faith that the sensor will be as good as the Nikon's.... much less surpass it.
> I don't even consider this as an upgrade to the 5DII, and that camera was $1900 new a year ago, with tons of free stuff from Adorama(and I didn't buy it then.)
> This camera is DOA for me.



Exactly my feelings.
When the best you can say about a 2100$ camera is that it has built-in wi-fi, there's definitely something wrong. I'm sure Canon fans will try hard and see one drop of water in the glass like a half-full glass, but to what extent can you do that? This camera should cost 1300$.


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## Musouka (Sep 17, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> piece of cr*p!
> 
> 20D, 5D I ... AF .. all over!
> 
> ...



Maybe it's time for you to switch. I fear for your health


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## baronng (Sep 17, 2012)

totally agree! piece of ****
11 af points and 97% VF, no built-in flash.........really amazing
I cannot imagine a 2100 USD piece of camera has such "features"




AvTvM said:


> piece of cr*p!
> 
> 20D, 5D I ... AF .. all over!
> 
> ...


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## ronderick (Sep 17, 2012)

So I guess the intro-FF line is here to stay. While the 5D2 fits quite well in this bracket, it is after 4-years old technology. While it is cool to see a replacement in this category, it is a pity that they remove the CF card slot.

In a way, this is like the expected replacement for I'd expect back in March... if that was the case, there would have been less complaints in the price area.


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## e_honda (Sep 17, 2012)

The more I think about the 6D: This thing would be a nice alternative for Rebel users at about $1500. At above $2000, it's kind of an embarrassment on Canon's part to offer this, especially considering what the competition is putting out.


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## aj1575 (Sep 17, 2012)

photogaz said:


> Embarrassing!



What do you mean with embarrassing; the whining that's going on here in the forum, or something else?

Most interesting is, that people are complaining about the camera, befor they were able to hold it in their hands, and were not able to take pictures with it. I'm sure, it is a nice camera, and will make great pictures in the hands of a skilled photographer, like any other dslr that comes out at the moment.

There are three points I do not like about the 6D though. I miss the "vari angle display" of the 60D, the autofocus systems seems downgraded from the 7D, and the built in flash is missing (as bad as the pictures with built in flash look, sometimes it is the only possibility to take a shoot).


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## Ew (Sep 17, 2012)

I foresee a pickup in 5D2 sales.


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## motorhead (Sep 17, 2012)

One word? Unremarkable.

Definitely not about to shake the world. Canon need to realise that Nikon have returned from their years in the wilderness and are producing cameras with real advances. Sleepy valley bodies using existing tech will no longer cut the mustard.

I hope Canon have in fact woken up, it may just be that the lead time on these products is long, predating Nikons re-emergence. So are Canon scheming behind the schenes?


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 17, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> I'll be interested to learn more about the autofocus: how good overall, how many cross-type AF points and does it offer AFMA?


+1
My one word would be "waiting" or "stand-by": maybe the focus points are as good as the 7D ones... just a lower number, who knows?

I survived the AF of the 5D classic in the past few years, and I have more technicalities to learn than gear to buy, so I'll wait and see.
One thing I'm sure: I am not switching to Nikon, not as long as I can't put a 70-200 F/4 IS on a Nikon mount... 

Maybe I'll eventually switch from my 5Dc to a 6D, or to a used 5D2, or - in a long term perspective - to a used 5D3.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

JohanCruyff said:


> I am not switching to Nikon, not as long as I can't put a 70-200 F/4 IS on a Nikon mount...



The Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 OS HSM costs the same and it's as great. Plus, you have a fully usable f/2.8, if you can live with the extra weight. AF works better on Nikon cameras than it does on Canon, if that was your concern.


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## nikkito (Sep 17, 2012)

The replacement for the 5D 2 is the 5D 3. I can't understand most of the complains here.


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> JohanCruyff said:
> 
> 
> > I am not switching to Nikon, not as long as I can't put a 70-200 F/4 IS on a Nikon mount...
> ...



It is _also_ a matter of weight, sharpness... but let's stick to the 6D topic.


Bad and good news from DPReview:

Disappointingly the layout doesn't offer any expanded coverage compared to the 9-point system on the EOS 5D Mark II - the additional points are squeezed-in to a similar diamond layout. *Only the center point is cross-type*, too; but Canon does say the system will work in vanishingly low light (-3 EV). Overall though, this appears to be the 6D's weakest point in terms of specification.

*The EOS 6D does, however offer the same AF microadjust as the 5D Mark III*. Adjustments can be made separately for the wide and telephoto ends of zoom lenses, and can also be made per serial-numbered lens (should you have two copies of the same lens that require differing amounts of adjustment).

I lost part of my interest in the 6D.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

JohanCruyff said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > JohanCruyff said:
> ...



Sharpness is amazing, see to believe.

Anyway, 11 cross-type points well spread and the AF performance could have been questionable in comparison with D600's 39 points (9 cross-type); 10 linear + 1 cross type for a +2000$ camera in 2012 is what it is: insulting.


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## zrz2005101 (Sep 17, 2012)

one word? I got several that fit the scheme. 
1.sucks
2.disappointment
3.really?
and lastly Canon made a good step pushing me to the dark side...


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## birtembuk (Sep 17, 2012)

It's probably a bit early to go moaning. Let's see those ISO, AF and DR in real life when it's out. There might be good news there. In any case, it looks like a nice back-up cam.


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## funkboy (Sep 17, 2012)

Mine.


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## zrz2005101 (Sep 17, 2012)

birtembuk said:


> It's probably a bit early to go moaning. Let's see those ISO, AF and DR in real life when it's out. There might be good news there. In any case, it looks like a nice back-up cam.



I kind of gave up on Canon's DR improvements already, after the 1DsIII, there weren't any improvements at all and it has been 5 years!!!


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## Matthew19 (Sep 17, 2012)

This is just what the video guys want, a 5d MKiii video equivalent without the higher price due to the fancy autofocus and stills features. If this thing preforms in low light like the mkiii then I'd be all over it for video use.


Matt
www.thefilmpoets.com


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## Northstar (Sep 17, 2012)

Regarding the Canon 6d..... for the same price, the new Nikon d600 is a better camera based on specs and Nikon's better sensor technology.


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## Mark1 (Sep 17, 2012)

Looks like a great little camera to me. Some 5D3 owners will be miffed though - it's got built in GPS and LAN which I guess is pretty useful to some. It's a neat little camera, looks well built and I'm sure the image quality will be excellent. 

Rebel upgraders are going to flock to this camera.

Full frame is full frame - that's the killer. It's a compact little full frame rebel - marvellous really.


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## Northstar (Sep 17, 2012)

Freelancer said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, 11 cross-type points well spread and the AF performance could have been questionable in comparison with D600's 39 points (9 cross-type); 10 linear + 1 cross type for a +2000$ camera in 2012 is what it is: insulting.
> ...



+2


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## nicku (Sep 17, 2012)

zrz2005101 said:


> one word? I got several that fit the scheme.
> 1.sucks
> 2.disappointment
> 3.really?
> and lastly Canon made a good step pushing me to the dark side...



1. the AF sucks
2. no reason to ''upgrade'' from 5D2
3. disappointment
*
''and lastly Canon made a good step pushing me to the dark side...''* totally agree...

the only strong point that 6D can have over Nikon D600 will be IQ at high ISO, but I do not do many illusions...


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## Z (Sep 17, 2012)

I think it's kind of cool how it focuses down to -3 EV ... That's about it. The price will fall though.


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## Sith Zombie (Sep 17, 2012)

itsreallyscott said:


> Man 'Screw-Canon' (hyphen to make "one word")
> SO basically I spent $1500 for weather sealing on my 5Diii. Plus the $800 on wifi; and to get GPS another $280. The release of the 6D is my tipping point, Canon camera only cares about profit, not innovation. The 5Diii was not the best camera Canon could have released at that price, they intentionally hold back just for profit. The iPhone5 was just released only one year later with better everything then its predecessor and at the same price point; not only that it has better tech then my 5Diii and only cost $167 in material to make. http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4396139/IPhone-5-bill-of-materials-comes-in--167-50?itc=edit_stub
> More evidence is the dumbing down of sensors, I'm sure the 6D picture will be 'almost as good' as the 5Diii. The new T4i with Digic 5 should outperform the 7D but Canon wants to keep the out dated 7D selling at least for another year given the recent firmware updates.
> I'll keep my Canon cameras because of the lenses, but the fact is others have already beat Canon for less and Canon releases this.




TRANSLATION: My boyfriend has hit me for the last time! Screw him! I'm leaving tonite, packed my stuff up already, walking out the door. I'd like to see him try and stop me this time.......... but I do love him...... maybe he'll change. Yeah, gonna stick with him.


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## LewisShermer (Sep 17, 2012)

"I own a 7D and a 60D but I'd really like a full frame camera, I'd also like higher quality images at higher ISOs please Mr Canon but can't quite afford a 5D mkiii. I don't really want a 5D mkii as that technology is half a decade old now. Yes my walk around zoom is an EF-s but I reckon I'll invest in a 24-105 L as all my other lenses are EF primes...

Oh, you have a 6D coming out? that sounds perfect for me 

yes, I'll probably wait until after christmas, I'm in no rush and will wait for a price drop. after all, isn't it the man that maketh the image, not just the casing around a chip/film? I've been doing pretty ok so far with the 500D/60D/7D.

Oh, some people are complaining about the focussing system... does it still focus on the thing I'm looking at? yes? oh, I see..."

so it's a little upgrade for the 7D user that's not in it for the FPS, want's a new toy with a bigger chip. I'm fine with that.


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## funkboy (Sep 17, 2012)

Surely I can't be the only xxD user excited about this camera?


I really can't justify spending more than 2K on a body (or any photo/electronics purchase for that matter), & this sucker should be down close to early 7D money pretty soon
remote control with live view from Android or iOS app
built-in geotagging
awesome low-light performance
AF better than my current 40D, which is already pretty good
AF better than 5DII (pretty much the same unit as the 40D's as I understand it)

Yes, the AF is not as good as the D600, and I'm hoping there are some more new lenses coming down the pipe before the end of the year, but I think this camera will take the place of the 5DII in the lineup, & they'll sell tons of them.


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## LewisShermer (Sep 17, 2012)

funkboy said:


> Surely I can't be the only xxD user excited about this camera?
> 
> 
> I really can't justify spending more than 2K on a body (or any photo/electronics purchase for that matter), & this sucker should be down close to early 7D money pretty soon
> ...



Yep, I'm with you


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## Isurus (Sep 17, 2012)

Right now I'm just feeling irritated they didn't include GPS and wireless in the 5D MIII. Given the $3500 price tag and the fact that they included it in a smaller, cheaper body suggests they could have to me. I could get a lot of use out of both of those and I hate attaching bulky accessories to the camera. Blah.


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## simonxu11 (Sep 17, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Freelancer said:
> 
> 
> > Albi86 said:
> ...


+3


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Isurus said:


> Right now I'm just feeling irritated they didn't include GPS and wireless in the 5D MIII. Given the $3500 price tag and the fact that they included it in a smaller, cheaper body suggests they could have to me. I could get a lot of use out of both of those and I hate attaching bulky accessories to the camera. Blah.


Well you're the ideal candidate for this camera then  go buy one of these to serve that purpose.


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## marekjoz (Sep 17, 2012)

One word?
Cheap-EF-sales-promoter.


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## well_dunno (Sep 17, 2012)

Below is from 6D preview summary page from dpreview :-\ :

_Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be._

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

dilbert said:


> The 5DII sold well because it was a ground breaking camera with respect to video (full frame!) as well as its photographic performance for the price. The 6D does not have the luxury of being ground breaking in any area.


I think it's a little early to say that. For the longest time I've thought, man they really should put wifi in a rebel body and make it work with Facebook and all the other social networks. I can't tell you how a big a pain it is trying to upload a photo from an slr vs my iphone where it's like two clicks. In this respect I think if they can do it properly that'll be the break away feature. That and the fact it can be remote controlled through an app. I'm sure some creative people will find ways use this with their iPads or such remotely. Could be very interesting. But again... it all depends on how good a job they did on it or if they just threw it together. I was expecting this feature in crop body rebel. But thinking about it now, I can see where they coming from. If they had it in crop body, then all those nice primes they have for their full frame wouldn't frame the same and so it would take away that value added feature. I could be wrong but I'm not aware of any other SLRs that offer this feature. If you true I think this could be a big deal. People can complain about this camera, but honestly it's not that bad. It's not a 5d Mark iii but after the price drops a couple hundred after the initial GOTTA HAVE IT group then I can see this doing well honestly. It looks like it should be at least better than the 5 mark ii sensor albeit less MP but that's fine by me. The higher ISO ranking means even though I have a Mark II, this might allow me to get a 2nd full frame that has even higher ISO capability than mine. The focusing system is at least slightly better. I think the main thing here is we heard rumors of a 7d 19 point system and got so excited about that, just like the D600 people thought it was going to be $1500. When you look at it from that perspective, it kind of sucks but if you just compare it to a 5d Mark ii then it's not that bad a camera. The one feature that makes this DOA for me is if they were idiots and removed AFMA. Hopefully they learned their lesson with the 60D but we'll see.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

stipotle said:


> "Maybe."
> 
> (to be seen: High ISO noise handling, AF, AFMA)
> 
> Also 1 word to everyone going nuts already: "Relax."


+1


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> Every time Canon introduces a camera, there is whining about alleged "greediness" and building things "just for profit". As usual, people are screaming "that's the last straw" and saying they're switching to another brand.
> 
> I tried two other brands for an extended period of time, spending quite a lot of money and time on them. My theory was that the grass must be greener across the fence. But working with the other brands made me realize that Canon's stuff is really outstanding, and the other brands weren't any better; they were actually worse in some important details.


+1


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

i am still in shock.....

i still can´t believe the specs are true.... and this is what canon sets against the D600.

my impression is canon goes after the consumers who don´t know much about photography and tries to win them with "social media" features.

while nikon looks after what enthusiast want.

wifi.... well i tried it and is sucks when shooting RAW it´s pretty much useless for me.

GPS... yeah nice.. but i rather have a 100% viewfinder, 250/s sync speed and a 39 POINT AF system, or at least the 7D AF. but not some REBEL AF system. 

i thought the D600 sync speed is bad.. but 180/s??? 
not good for a strobist like me...

the sensor.. mhm.. it has to be fantastic to make up for the shortcomings.. and i doubt it will.
the D600 seems to have a great sensor so it will be hart to beat nikon on that.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

funkboy said:


> Surely I can't be the only xxD user excited about this camera?
> 
> 
> I really can't justify spending more than 2K on a body (or any photo/electronics purchase for that matter), & this sucker should be down close to early 7D money pretty soon



rumored price 2099$ is above 2k.. just as info.

and i rather spend 800$ more for the 5D MK then this FF rebel.

last 2750$ deal for the 5D MK3 looks like a bargain compared to this...
poor 6D pre-order morons....


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Sith Zombie said:


> itsreallyscott said:
> 
> 
> > Man 'Screw-Canon' (hyphen to make "one word")
> ...


LOL! Love the analogy. Yup, as much as these people moan they're not going to leave. Unfortunately


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> LOL! Love the analogy. Yup, as much as these people moan they're not going to leave. Unfortunately



well they don´t spend MORE money either.. at least i will not buy this camera... i stick 2 more years to my 5D MK2 then.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > LOL! Love the analogy. Yup, as much as these people moan they're not going to leave. Unfortunately
> ...


Which is fine. If you don't feel Canon is worth the money then that's your choice. That's why I said unfortunately because until Canon does loose market share you're likely to be disappointed in them. As I said in another thread, Nikon is trying to gain market share and Canon is happy with what they've got. So until that changes the Nikon's are going to offer more for less (at least as far as tech specs go) but that doesn't mean it's going to sell better than the Canon because Canon has a larger market share.


----------



## Musouka (Sep 17, 2012)

Isurus said:


> Right now I'm just feeling irritated they didn't include GPS and wireless in the 5D MIII. Given the $3500 price tag and the fact that they included it in a smaller, cheaper body suggests they could have to me. I could get a lot of use out of both of those and I hate attaching bulky accessories to the camera. Blah.



In its 6D first impression, DPReview wrote: "Construction is solid, if perhaps not offering the same bullet-proof feel as the 5D Mark III or 7D. *In part this is because the 6D has a plastic top plate, which is necessary to allow the WiFi and GPS to work*. The rest of the body uses a magnesium alloy shell, and Canon describes it as 'dust and drip-proof'.


----------



## meli (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > LOL! Love the analogy. Yup, as much as these people moan they're not going to leave. Unfortunately
> ...


+1
i've already picked a D800 for this round & im still using my 5d2. I dont see myself buying anything Canon till their products start being competitive again.


----------



## scoobert (Sep 17, 2012)

flash?


----------



## photomojo (Sep 17, 2012)

adolescent


----------



## photomojo (Sep 17, 2012)

Boo!


----------



## psolberg (Sep 17, 2012)

the sad thing is, just like with the 5DmkIII, canon crippled this camera to protect the higher end brother. It could be better. But unlike Nikon, which made the D800 a totally different camera than the D600 so as to not have them cannibalize each other, canon's stuck low MP formula doesn't allow them to really innovate or risk making the 5DmkIII a bust. Proof yet again that the decision to stay in the low 22MP with the 5DmkIII was a huge mistake. If it had been 30-40+MP, canon would have far less to protect and the 6D would be in a much better position to challenge the D600. Maybe even surpass it.

Everything about this camera seems to be designed to protect the 5DmkIII sales. I have to hand it to Nikon. They played their cards just right by baiting canon to chase after the D700 with the MKIII and then surprising them with the D800 departure from the expected. And then sensing canon's mistake, undercut the 5DIII knowing canon can't react too aggressively or risk nuking its own 5DIII.

Even if the rumored affordable high MP body from canon makes it next year, assuming it is not a 10K 1Dsmk4, Nikon clearly had the best game plan for this generation of bodies. The question is, will this mean an end for the D700 line or will Nikon save the 5DIII killer for when canon puts up their answer to the D800. That would make the most sense as being over a year late, the high res 5D or whatever will likely have no trouble matching the D800 and likewise nikon would have no trouble going for the 5DIII.

we live in interesting times.


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

The Poor 6D will get no respect not only because of Canon's crippling disease, but because Canon cannot spec it more than the 5diii.... which brings me back to the old gripe... they over priced the 5diii and pissed off a lot of early adopters... Way to go Canon, treating your supporters like crap. You have great glass and great bodies, but .... 

Here's the solution.

Price the 6D at $1699 
Re-price the 5diii @ $2699
Refund the early 5diii adopters the $800 difference ... cause they will never forget what you did to them
Send the pragmatic Canon Employees to Sony to liscence the EXMOR tech in the near-term
In the meanwhile get the R&D folks busy at making a better sensor than the competition

Like this will happen... :


----------



## Gothmoth (Sep 17, 2012)

> Even if the rumored affordable high MP body from canon makes it next year, assuming it is not a 10K 1Dsmk4, Nikon clearly had the best game plan for this generation of bodies. The question is, will this mean an end for the D700 line or will Nikon save the 5DIII killer for when canon puts up their answer to the D800. That would make the most sense as being over a year late, the high res 5D or whatever will likely have no trouble matching the D800 and likewise nikon would have no trouble going for the 5DIII.



first canon has to show it can match sony/nikons sensor technology.

so im curious to see the new 20.2 MP sensor .. im very interested to know how it will perform.

it´s not an hybrid AF sensor.. so there must be another good reason to develop it.


----------



## 7enderbender (Sep 17, 2012)

Well, the thing is maybe not quite as bad as first thought when the specs leaked. But I still don't get it. Why would I pay 2K when the 5DII is still available for _less_?

As a $1200 camera I would understand it and maybe even consider it as a little worst case scenario backup even though currently I don't really need a backup (and if do I can rent one down the street). So, not sure what justifies this. I don't care about gadget features as much as I want build quality and a bit of heft to to balance things. I don't want a smaller and lighter camera. Certainly not for that kind of money.


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> It's not "a Rebel body".
> 
> It appears to be a lighter, smaller version of the 5D2, with an SD card slot instead of CF. It is almost the same size as, and a little lighter than, a 7D. It likely offers much better high ISO than either a 7D or 5D2 (it has the same ISO range as the 5D3).
> 
> ...



I have to say this makes sense. (not being a wisecrack  

However, makes more sense if there was just *one* camera Company on Planet Earth... in an environment where the competition creates more compelling products at competetive prices, this offering looks less compelling... herein lies the rub.

I think Canon has great glass... but they can milk that horse just that much.


----------



## picturesbyme (Sep 17, 2012)

K-amps said:


> The Poor 6D will get no respect not only because of Canon's crippling disease, but because Canon cannot spec it more than the 5diii.... which brings me back to the old gripe... they over priced the 5diii and pissed off a lot of early adopters... Way to go Canon, treating your supporters like crap. You have great glass and great bodies, but ....
> 
> Here's the solution.
> 
> ...




I don't get it.
Why did Canon pissed off early adopters?
Did Canon hide the price? NO

Everyone knew that the 5d3 was overpriced but some decided to buy it anyway.
All those who bough it early at high price KNEW the price, knew WHY they HAD TO buy it at that rate. 
Either they needed for WORK and it already paid for itself OR they could easily afford it and enjoyed the FUN they had with it in the past X months. 
Of course some bought it for a status symbol but just because someone cannot afford an expensive item that does NOT mean the manufacturer OWES to the person. They HAD their choices. 
Sure we can do something about it but those who bought it early at full price already VOTED.

Now if you excuse me I need to go and complain that my new A6 that I bought at MSRP is selling at invoice..


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

mitkomitashki said:


> FF 1200D



But it has GPS


----------



## sheedoe (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon should sue Canon. The 6D is same as the 5D2.


----------



## ecka (Sep 17, 2012)

6D = crippled 60D and 5D3 hybrid


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> One word?
> Cheap-EF-sales-promoter.



The missed the boat on that one too by overpricing it...


----------



## well_dunno (Sep 17, 2012)

K-amps said:


> The Poor 6D will get no respect not only because of Canon's crippling disease, but because Canon cannot spec it more than the 5diii.... which brings me back to the old gripe... they over priced the 5diii and pissed off a lot of early adopters... Way to go Canon, treating your supporters like crap. You have great glass and great bodies, but ....
> 
> Here's the solution.
> 
> ...



K-amps, mate you are reading my mind! ;D


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

psolberg said:


> the sad thing is, just like with the 5DmkIII, canon crippled this camera to protect the higher end brother. It could be better. But unlike Nikon, which made the D800 a totally different camera than the D600 so as to not have them cannibalize each other, canon's stuck low MP formula doesn't allow them to really innovate or risk making the 5DmkIII a bust. Proof yet again that the decision to stay in the low 22MP with the 5DmkIII was a huge mistake. If it had been 30-40+MP, canon would have far less to protect and the 6D would be in a much better position to challenge the D600. Maybe even surpass it.
> 
> Everything about this camera seems to be designed to protect the 5DmkIII sales. I have to hand it to Nikon. They played their cards just right by baiting canon to chase after the D700 with the MKIII and then surprising them with the D800 departure from the expected. And then sensing canon's mistake, undercut the 5DIII knowing canon can't react too aggressively or risk nuking its own 5DIII.
> 
> ...



+1 Well said. And yes, the giant was caught napping... will he wake up though?

The more one thinks about it it becomes easier to separate the Guys that design the "glass" vs the Guys that design the "bodies".... two completely different products though made to work with each other.

One division getting it right, they other napping on the laurels of the 5D2. granted there is enough intertia for Canon to mantaining market share, however it does not take very long for people to begin to get pee'd off.

As a Canon customer, I would love for them to give us bodies that are well packaged and right priced because at the end of the day we may spend 2x-5x more money on the lenses as we will on the Body... so why piss us off by the body offerings....

The 7D was the last compelling Body they made in the non 1D series bodies. Since then we got 4-5 disappointments... repackaged bodies with 4-5 year old tech. 

Whats next, slapping on some colorful LED's to make them pretty? :


----------



## infared (Sep 17, 2012)

"Lackluster" or "Mediocre" comes to mind.


----------



## Gothmoth (Sep 17, 2012)

shame?


----------



## dstppy (Sep 17, 2012)

"Trolling"

As in for Trolls ;D Honestly, they released it to make everyone on the forum that already doesn't like Canon mad.

Seriously, the same fifteen people are beating the same drum on 8 different threads.


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

dstppy said:


> "Trolling"
> 
> As in for Trolls ;D Honestly, they released it to make everyone on the forum that already doesn't like Canon mad.
> 
> Seriously, the same fifteen people are beating the same drum on 8 different threads.



Looking at the poll results... 4.1% are excited, rest are not (in varying degrees).


----------



## Gothmoth (Sep 17, 2012)

dstppy said:


> "Trolling"
> 
> As in for Trolls ;D Honestly, they released it to make everyone on the forum that already doesn't like Canon mad.
> 
> Seriously, the same fifteen people are beating the same drum on 8 different threads.



for the record i am a canon user because i once liked them more then nikon.
today i have nearly all models from both brands sitting on my shelves.....

i only feel sorry for canon users.


----------



## pdirestajr (Sep 17, 2012)

One word? "Camera".

Y'all are crazy. I'm excited there is nothing new tempting me to waste my money on another camera body with minor changes. Technology is pretty good people. Enjoy shooting with what you have!


----------



## Half Way To Nothing (Sep 17, 2012)

"Mistake"


----------



## mjardeen (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> JohanCruyff said:
> 
> 
> > I am not switching to Nikon, not as long as I can't put a 70-200 F/4 IS on a Nikon mount...
> ...



No, there is no Nikon, or other lens that compares to that lens. It is the sharpest medium to long zoom on the market. It is also very light. If you are a landscape shooter like me, you could care less about 2.8.


----------



## tron (Sep 17, 2012)

"Joke"


----------



## Zlatko (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> Do you think it's something new that electronics companies (or any company for that matter) has different products at different price points in their line up? They're all cameras so there has to be some differentiation in features, quality, etc. to justify the price.


Thank you for stating what should seem obvious, but apparently isn't understood by many. Photographers are always complaining that a lesser model is a "crippled" version of a more expensive model, and a more expensive model is an "overpriced" version of a lesser model. Why don't people understand the basic principle of "You get what you pay for"?


----------



## Gothmoth (Sep 17, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think it's something new that electronics companies (or any company for that matter) has different products at different price points in their line up? They're all cameras so there has to be some differentiation in features, quality, etc. to justify the price.
> ...



well i think you don´t understand that people complain here because they can get more from nikon these days....

and unfortunately some of them have invested a 5 figure number in canon lenses....


----------



## meli (Sep 17, 2012)

tron said:


> "Joke"



+1


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 17, 2012)

FANTASTIC!


----------



## Musouka (Sep 17, 2012)

Plastic :


----------



## distant.star (Sep 17, 2012)

.
I'm somewhere between arrogant and feckless.

Arrogant: We're the big dog, and you'll take what we give you!

Feckless: What are we going to do about this aging 5D2 in our lineup? Let's throw this cheapie at it and see what happens.

This is not a camera for photographers. It's a camera for people.

Someone at Canon has put his career on the line to bet on the young, social media generation having a lot of discretionary income and willing to carry a DSLR around to show up their iPhone buddies.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

distant.star said:


> Someone at Canon has put his career on the line to bet on the young, social media generation having a lot of discretionary income and willing to carry a DSLR around to show up their iPhone buddies.


Actually I think it's more the pros that have a huge collection of nice lenses yet still use their iPhone because it's so much easier to post up pictures online. This gives them a (assuming) good sensor and good enough everything else that should hopefully make this much easier.


----------



## AprilForever (Sep 17, 2012)

Notthe7dmarkIIthereforeIregarditwithdisdain.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

K-amps said:


> psolberg said:
> 
> 
> > the sad thing is, just like with the 5DmkIII, canon crippled this camera to protect the higher end brother. It could be better. But unlike Nikon, which made the D800 a totally different camera than the D600 so as to not have them cannibalize each other, canon's stuck low MP formula doesn't allow them to really innovate or risk making the 5DmkIII a bust. Proof yet again that the decision to stay in the low 22MP with the 5DmkIII was a huge mistake. If it had been 30-40+MP, canon would have far less to protect and the 6D would be in a much better position to challenge the D600. Maybe even surpass it.
> ...



Can't say I am surprised though. The lens division has continued talking about driving things forward while the body and sensor division, man, I still can't over the way that one exec responded to reporter's questions back over half a decade ago at a European camera show. So utterly full of themselves, basically laughing at Nikon and thinking they were a decade ahead in FF, basically saying they were so far ahead they had no need to do anything but milk and dribble stuff out and when someone would ask when do you plan to do so and so, say a fast FF, they were like hahaha why bother we are king! And then the report that they apparently laughed off internal (from a non DSLR division) method to possibly increase low ISO DR, they apparently sounded confused about why the other division even sent the design to them to patent and blew it off (maybe there is more to it and maybe it would not work for their DSLR, but others thought it might, who knows). And you could just see it in the way they have dribbled something as minor as AutoISO out over more than a decade and still not given a working version to less than 1 series and other petty little things while you go the sense other makers tried to enable as much as hardware could support a lot more often. Heck they even back tracked and instead of giving better cropped mode video, took it out of all the latest models, etc.

putting 1dx af, more or less, in the 5D3 was a good sign (one of the few times they did more than expected, that said, had they not, the 5D3 would've been absolutely dead in the water) and the 7D was a fairly good sign (although the af in it was still far cry from 1 series) but the video crippling and poor low iso dr and price of 5D3 seemed curious given competion


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Zlatko said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think it's something new that electronics companies (or any company for that matter) has different products at different price points in their line up? They're all cameras so there has to be some differentiation in features, quality, etc. to justify the price.
> ...



Because it is the same price as the D600 and offers less.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

well_dunno said:


> Below is from 6D preview summary page from dpreview :-\ :
> 
> _Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be._
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6



Canon just needs to get rid of their entire marketing and exec design team, people who probably don't even know how to use a camera, and get in a small new batch and give more power to the engineers and the people who actually do useful stuff there. It's sad when a bunch of MBAs come in a mess up great tech companies.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > The 5DII sold well because it was a ground breaking camera with respect to video (full frame!) as well as its photographic performance for the price. The 6D does not have the luxury of being ground breaking in any area.
> ...



the gps is a nice features and not a gimmick, imo, despite some calling it a toy, it can be pretty useful

the wifi, depending upon details, might be nice at times, say you are at some competition and want to send a few images processed straight from cam to the even website, you get there first, direct while still shooting


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

DB said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Whats next, slapping on some colorful LED's to make them pretty? :
> ...



Haha, good one! ;D ;D ;D


----------



## borner (Sep 17, 2012)

Tragic

... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.

Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

borner said:


> Tragic
> 
> ... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.
> 
> Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.


I really don't get all these people saying the D600 kicks the 5d iii's butt. Sure it's cheaper but for most professionals price is only a small component. The main thing is can it do what they need. I've seen very little complaint from people that have the 5d iii which means Canon did a good job with it. Yes it's not cheap but if you want cheap then Nikon has you covered there. It's a free market if you think Canon's cameras suck so bad then go switch otherwise quit complaining. Oh and while we're on the topic of Apple, since when have they started charging more for less? In the ultrabook category they're very competitive with the alternatives. The main place you can complain is the iphone with it's close to 50% profit margin but if you're buying it on contract then it doesn't cost you a penny more making it a better deal. I don't know how many friends I have with Android phones that after only a year their batteries don't last more than a couple hours. Apple makes good products because they don't go cheap on parts. It seems Canon is adopting the same strategy that people are willing to pay for a quality product. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> borner said:
> 
> 
> > Tragic
> ...



I've been finding similarities between Canon and Apple for a while. Thank you for providing me a clear evidence.


----------



## borner (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > borner said:
> ...



Wow, must've hit a real fan-boy button. Please don't blow a gasket. 

I'm actually a very big Canon and Apple customer. Believe me, I've been a Canon guy for decades. Currently have 5D mk I and mk II. L lenses covering a very broad range of focal lengths as well as non-Ls and even a tilt-shift. Loads of speedlights, pocket wizards,etc. Re apple I've got several macs, iphones, even an iPad. I also have a load of PCs of various flavors. I'm no novice. I'm objective and open-minded. If anything, I've been more pro-Canon than objective. But, in the end, I have a desire to see value. I want to continue to feel I'm not being hung out to dry by my principal vendor.

I don't quibble with the quality of Canon's latest offerings, only their value propositions. Same goes for Apple. I *want* Canon stuff to (continue to) be great. I'm pulling for them. Especially given my existing investment. But, as a die-hard Canon guy, I'm left quite disappointed in their value propositions in the 5d 3 and now what I see as a sign in this 6D. I'm not complaining per-se, but I am stating that if I Canon guy like me isn't drinking, much less buying their Kool Aid, they aren't nearly in the brand leading position that they seem to believe. 

That is tragic in my humble opinion. I think Nikon is poised to leap frog them - may already have for all I know. I think most people won't get all bent about minor feature capability leads hear and there, but right now, Canon's premium cost isn't justified given their specs. They appear to me at a casual blush to be around 20-30% more expensive, with not-so-obvious qualitative benefits to justify it. Hence, big drop in value (IMHO).
Example: the 6D has 11 focus points w/only the center being cross type. That's less capability than the 7D. More like the 4 year olf 5D mk II, whose focus capabilities are what most of us have been unhappy with for the last 4 years! So, I can jump up to a 5Dmk3 for premium $$, but not being a video guy, I don't feel like shelling out $3500 for an improved focusing system justifies the cost. And the 6D doesn't look like enough value to justify it either.

All things considered, given the product cycles, I'm likely to start building up a Nikon stable of gear, and I'd likely start with a D800. Why in the world would Canon want me to do that? Me, of all people.

Just plain tragic .


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > borner said:
> ...



OTOH they are totally different from Apple in that Apple is not afraid to cannibalize their own products and segments if they see a way to drive forward and grab more total market share, Canon absolutely worships internal segment protection even if it means giving up domination of a segment. Canon also sits and reacts and waits on everything these days (OK, not their lens division, but sensor and body division).

So they have the worst of Apple without the best.


----------



## infared (Sep 17, 2012)

dstppy said:


> "Trolling"
> 
> As in for Trolls ;D Honestly, they released it to make everyone on the forum that already doesn't like Canon mad.
> 
> Seriously, the same fifteen people are beating the same drum on 8 different threads.



Hey dstppy...Thanks for reading my posts!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

borner said:


> ................All things considered, given the product cycles, I'm likely to start building up a Nikon stable of gear, and I'd likely start with a D800. Why in the world would Canon want me to do that? Me, of all people.
> 
> Just plain tragic .



For the record, you are complaining, but it is ok to complain.  Canon overpriced the 5diii and now barely 6 months after it's release, it is selling for $750 less (thats over a 20% drop in 6 months!) ... if that is not a reality check , what is? 

Does this not prove it was over priced? Why don't the fanbois come out and say it instead of defending Canon or attacking it's loyal customer base? Has the D800 lost 20% of it's release price? Why not?

I know how I saved up to buy a 5diii (I am sure others did not have unlimited funds either) ... and one of the many factors that affected my decisions of buying a Canon was that I would not lose a lot on resale... well that notion has gone down the toilet. While there is some blame on the sensor design team, one does not feel hate for them... they probably did the best they could given the circumstance... what was completely avoidable was a marketing/ pricing debacle that they did with the 5diii.


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## RS2021 (Sep 17, 2012)

Underwhelmed.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

borner said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > brianleighty said:
> ...



One basic issue that would be interesting to discuss is the concept itself of brand loyalty.

I have 3000$ to spend on camera gear: who gives me more? Nikon? Fine. Sold. That's as far as it goes for me. A camera is a tool, not an idol to worship. I can be loyal to my local grocer, someone I look in the face everyday and exchange xmas wishes with, not a mega company which only interacts with me through a help desk and has no idea and no care of who I am. How can you be loyal to something like that?

What irritates me about most of Apple and Canon users nowadays is how they swallow everything their God-like companies provide them, at whatever price, and defending them against plain evidence. See the 6D? There will be people praising it for the built-in wifi, while the crappy Nikon makes you pay 60$ for it. When you treat a multinational company with a worshipping attitude... sorry, but I think there's something wrong.

And a company is what its customers are. People complain about the iPhone 5 but they will still buy it and make it a successful product. So the iPhone 6 will be in the same line, and so on. Canon is clearly becoming that sort of company, and I don't think I want to be their customers anymore. I just don't want to be a part of that social/psychological sub-culture.


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## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> So they have the worst of Apple without the best.



+1


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## robbinzo (Sep 17, 2012)

I would have been interested if this camera had a decent AF system. It hasn't. It has one center cross type point (see link below)

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Why would Canon put such a bad AF system in to a camera that is supposed to be an UPGRADE


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> I have 3000$ to spend on camera gear: who gives me more? Nikon? Fine. Sold. That's as far as it goes for me. A camera is a tool, not an idol to worship. I can be loyal to my local grocer, someone I look in the face everyday and exchange xmas wishes with, not a mega company which only interacts with me through a help desk and has no idea and no care of who I am. How can you be loyal to something like that?



what if you have 16.000$ worth of canon glas? :


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > I have 3000$ to spend on camera gear: who gives me more? Nikon? Fine. Sold. That's as far as it goes for me. A camera is a tool, not an idol to worship. I can be loyal to my local grocer, someone I look in the face everyday and exchange xmas wishes with, not a mega company which only interacts with me through a help desk and has no idea and no care of who I am. How can you be loyal to something like that?
> ...



Surely I would not be the sort of customer interested in the 6D


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## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > I have 3000$ to spend on camera gear: who gives me more? Nikon? Fine. Sold. That's as far as it goes for me. A camera is a tool, not an idol to worship. I can be loyal to my local grocer, someone I look in the face everyday and exchange xmas wishes with, not a mega company which only interacts with me through a help desk and has no idea and no care of who I am. How can you be loyal to something like that?
> ...



+1 and stand to lose 10% in re-sale value and another 10% in Evil bay fees... thats the price of a 5diii  (sorry could'nt resist)


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Surely I would not be the sort of customer interested in the 6D



well i am... i need a second FF body as backup but im not going to buy a 5D MK3 or a second 5D MK2.

the 5D MK3 is overprized .. the 5D MK2 is to old.

so i look at the nikon camp and i see nice cameras i would like to have.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

K-amps said:


> +1 and stand to lose 10% in re-sale value and another 10% in Evil bay fees... thats the price of a 5diii  (sorry could'nt resist)



actually i think i will be more then 10%.

they sell the 70-200mm f4 IS (love it for landscape work because it´s so light) for 1000 euro here (new) .. on ebay they are sold for ~750-800 euro.

the 100mm IS macro i bought for 880 euro is often sold for 650 on ebay (saw it for 580 euro last week).

i guess it will be close to 20% +9 % ebay fees.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Canon-F1 said:
> 
> 
> > Albi86 said:
> ...



That's convenience, not loyalty - and we agree about that.

Loyalty implies having feelings.


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## aznable (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> I have 3000$ to spend on camera gear: who gives me more? Nikon? Fine. Sold.



it depends what you want to do with the camera; the best all around cameras at a reasonable price in my opinion are the 1dmk iii/iv and 5d mk3

i have a Windows phone 4 the record


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

aznable said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > I have 3000$ to spend on camera gear: who gives me more? Nikon? Fine. Sold.
> ...



I prefer spending much less for the D600


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## aznable (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> I prefer spending much less for the D600



to shot landscapes/studio i would buy an sd1...better sealing, cheaper lenses


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## funkboy (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Describe the 6D in one phrase...*

"Better than the 5DII it replaces."

The 5D c was "the original entry-level full-frame camera"

The 5DII was the upgrade of the original entry-level FF camera, to which they added movie mode almost as an afterthought & turned the cinematography world on its head.

The 5DIII is clearly *not* an entry-level FF camera; it's very much a professional camera that sits in the lineup with cameras like the 1DIV. It's got professional AF, professional construction & sealing (which is why it doesn't have built-in wi-fi & gps; the signals won't go through the all-metal body). And a professional price...

But the 5DII is still selling like crazy several months after the 5DIII was released, because you can get a brand one now from reputable shops for a little over half the price of a mk3 (or a guaranteed refurb for ~$200 less than that, putting it comfortably under half the cost of its "replacement").

As noted here the other day, the 5DII just hit four years old. The supply contracts on some of the components are probably running out soon, which means that some of the parts needed to make it won't be available anymore (or at least not in the prices & volumes that they're used to). This would require redesigning circuits (& possibly firmware) to use newer components that replace the discontinued ones. I'm sure Fukushima didn't help the supply contract situation much either. The end result is that they have a near-obsolete camera (from a manufacturing perspective) that is still selling like crazy, which is not really a situation they've been in before in recent memory.

So they would be braindead not to replace the "just under $2K" full-frame position in their lineup with something in the segment that will continue capitalizing on the demand for an FF camera in this price range. 

And it'll appeal to a wider audience than the 5DII it replaces. It's smaller, lighter, takes the SD cards that the cameras that a lot of people upgrading to it have, and has better low-light performance & better AF (which is why I'm getting one).

I think it's clear by now that the 6D is *not* in fact a reaction to the D600; if it was they surely would have put at least 7D-grade AF and the LCD viewfinder overlay screen in there.

The 6D is the replacement for the 2012 5DII.


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## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Describe the 6D in one phrase...*



funkboy said:


> I think it's clear by now that the 6D is *not* in fact a reaction to the D600; if it was they surely would have put at least 7D-grade AF and the LCD viewfinder overlay screen in there.
> 
> The 6D is the replacement for the 2012 5DII.



So this was a planned fail ?


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## Matthew Payne (Sep 17, 2012)

First Post, and I'll admit its on a controversial subject.

I own a 5DII that I have had for nearly 2 years. My photography is funded fully by photography... ie I shoot weddings to cover the cost of my gear, my passion is for landscape shots, but I still have a day job for the household bills. 

If I had been looking for a 'first' FF digital camera (although Ive been using 35mm film for years) I would have bought this in a flash. 

Its full frame, but it's small.
It has decent resolution (pixel count) but without pummelling my hard drive!
It has a metal body
It has interchangeable focussing screens as I love manual focus (those tiny Voigtlander lenses are awesome)

I know its bettered by the D600 in many ways, but in all honesty I still like the combination of specs.


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## scokar (Sep 17, 2012)

it's almost a 5DIIn


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## nf (Sep 17, 2012)

Dear all,
first of all sorry for my poor English... I have been a Nikon user (D700) for a while (six months, four years ago) before switching to Canon and still very happy about my decision. I have a 5d MKII and a 5d MK III and I would NEVER change to Nikon (even if I would get a D800 for free).
The reasons are many... I would not hurt anyone but I would like to say something to explain my position:

1) Canon glasses >> I have six L lenses.. not possible to compare even with the greatest Nikon glasses..

2) Canon colours >> I am very surprised that nobody speaks about it  Have you ever worked on a greenish Nikon RAW? Have you ever tried to put good colors in a Nikon RAW file (similar to the great Kodachrome)? I know PS can do great things but I have never been able to get good results... with Canon it keep me two minutes to get exactly what I want!

3) Canon Services > Have you ever called a Nikon Service for a problem? Good luck! 

4) Would you spend your time choosing one of the 345 AF points instead of understand the right focal plane to focus with a single point?

5) Have you ever tried both systems? I did.. I also used for a weekend the D800 and I don't like at what I get, it doesn't matter DR and many many MP... the images look VERY artificial.. 

So please TRY the 6D before judging... when I bought the 5d mk III I just saw the specs and I was sure it was only a real small update.. I change my idea when I started to use it.. USE IT AND JUDGE IT!!!


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## Zlatko (Sep 17, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


> Zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...


They _think_ they "can get more from Nikon". There are some things that are not in the specs that you only learn by using a system. I've found Canon's color (especially when photographing humans) and ergonomics and flash system to be better overall, and their service is excellent. Canon offers smaller raw file sizes — essential for some photographers.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 17, 2012)

K-amps said:


> borner said:
> 
> 
> > ................All things considered, given the product cycles, I'm likely to start building up a Nikon stable of gear, and I'd likely start with a D800. Why in the world would Canon want me to do that? Me, of all people.
> ...



not to burst your bubble --- but the $750 less on the mk3 you're talking about was from a store (adorama), selling through ebay - it was a one day sale. The price of the mk3 is still the same...


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## funkboy (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Describe the 6D in one phrase...*



K-amps said:


> So this was a planned fail ?



I'd say that this was planned not-cannibalizing-the-mark-3-as-much-as-we-can-get-away-with. DPReview summed it up quite succinctly:



> Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be.



Although with the D800 being what it is, & Sony sensor production being what it is, Canon's marketing would be pretty dumb to assume that an entry-level FX Nikon wasn't coming down the pipe. The Sony entries were a little harder to predict as they're both pretty unique cameras, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there are a lot of people out there that want a camera with extremely high image quality in as small a package as possible.


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## funkboy (Sep 17, 2012)

scokar said:


> it's almost a 5DIIn



That's an excellent summary of the positioning of this camera. I was thinking earlier that it reminded me of the jump between 20D & 30D.


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## aires (Sep 18, 2012)

Has 5D Rebel been said yet?


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## neighborsgoat (Sep 18, 2012)

It's hard for me to think of a single word to define the 6D, since I do not understand what Canon wants with it, as it is clearly confusing even for many of us here. Mainly (looking at the voting poll) I see two groups: one group saying that this is the FF Rebel, the other one calling it "the true replacement of the 5D Mark II". Let's start from these two groups.

1) If it is meant to be the FF Rebel: It won't succeed, as I do not think that a Rebel user will ever jump into FF without SEARCHING, READING and COMPARING first. Remember, we're not talking about "smurthphone photographers" or point 'n shoot customers here, jumping squeaking in joy with a bunch o' dollars to burn into the FF segment. We're not even talking about "four X" Canoneers (as in 1000D). We're talking about Canon users with 2-3 years of DSLR experience. And a pretty much GOOD experience, with bodies that used to deliver every bang for all the buck. 
At this point, I would insert a group split: 
a) Rebelers with non-expensive lenses and 
b) Rebelers with expensive lenses. 
Group a) won't bite the bait, since they will SEARCH, READ & COMPARE the 6D with D600 and frankly I do not see any reason not to jump ship. I definitely would do it. Group b) won't bite the bait, as I would really doubt that someone with expensive lens would pick a 6D with crippled specs for their "long awaited, yearned for" FF. 

2) If this is meant to be "the true replacement of the 5D Mark II", then this will again fail. Just from the specs alone, most of the current 5D2 users won't see this as an upgrade. We're living in times of crisis, we're living in times of higher expectations from technology. We're living in times of internet, fast information, instant customer feedback, and in times of competition already making better moves. That quick drop in the 5D3 price was a confirmation that something went wrong in those "high level marketing forecasts", "trend analysis" or whatever they call it at Canon's. I would guess the number of 5D2 users saying in March "this new 5D3 has to wait, I won't upgrade right now" was quite larger than Canon initially predicted. As others here already well stated, this would rather push up the sales on the 5D3, but won't do any good in the price segment where 6D wants to position itself. 

So, what the heck is 6D? Well, if no one can bring up some interesting, plausible explanation here, then I'll have to say one word: failure.


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## Sameer Thawani (Sep 18, 2012)

6D in one word: Confusing

On an unrelated note, is it really too much to ask for dual card slots, given that Nikon provides it in the $1200 D7000, D300s and all models higher ?


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## ararock1 (Sep 18, 2012)

disappointed. To a certain degree...Canon should have put the 7D autofocus system in the 6D. CF slots, or dual CF/SD and New sensor with 20MP or down to 18MP, Joystick control, 1/8000 top shutter, an M-Fn button, I was basically hoping for a full frame 7D. but then again this would have been an issue with the 5D mark III owners most likely....but ultimately until I use the camera in my hands and see how well it handles, I cannot make a decision either way on how much i will like the image files or the camera itself. I would maybe use it as a second body or back up. One interesting note is that it can autofocus at the center point down to -3 EV. I am with most of you as I am not sure how quickly some people will upgrade to this fullframe from a rebel or 5D mark II. I own the 7D and the 5D mark ii and I am looking to upgrade to the 5d Mark III and eventually pick up a 1d mark III or Mark IV for a second body for sports.


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## Bosman (Sep 18, 2012)

The new Canon Eos PoopD series camera. We have a lot of exciting features no one uses right now but this is the future! State of the art nothing. All the focus system features of the failed 5d / 5dm2 with a much improved center point only focussing allowing center point only shooting to be brought to the next ev in performance that has ever been achieved, -3ev! Wow you guys wont believe it! maybe the 6dm3 will actually have multiple cross point focus system but we will have to decide later. 8)


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## tron (Sep 19, 2012)

I have a 5DMkII and I am thinking 5DIII mainly for the focusing system, silent shooting and the increased speed. The idea of 6D makes me laugh! (anyway I have already stated my 1 word for 6D: joke!). Of course, if it was much cheaper it might appeal to Rebel users.


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## Phenix205 (Sep 19, 2012)

Lots of Rebel users own at least two to three EF-S lenses which cannot be used on 6D. So expect to spend more money.


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## DarkKnightNine (Sep 19, 2012)

well_dunno said:


> Below is from 6D preview summary page from dpreview :-\ :
> 
> _Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be._
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6




Couldn't have said it better. Canon of late seems to be trying to get away with giving us as little as possible. I really don't understand it. If I were in charge of Canon I would be trying to tack on as much as possible to keep my customers happy within all price ranges.


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## Bosman (Sep 19, 2012)

Couldn't have said it better. Canon of late seems to be trying to get away with giving us as little as possible. I really don't understand it. If I were in charge of Canon I would be trying to tack on as much as possible to keep my customers happy within all price ranges.
[/quote]
Ill vote you in right now if i can bring you coffee and be your caddy. 8)


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## Letoneliul (Sep 25, 2012)

Hi, I've been wanting a full frame, and really the prices on used 5dmk2s are around $500 cheaper than this new 6D. Sure the 6D is arguably better on most accounts, but is it $500 better?


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## krjc (Sep 25, 2012)

In one word...................."girlfriendcamera" :


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 25, 2012)

Letoneliul said:


> Hi, I've been wanting a full frame, and really the prices on used 5dmk2s are around $500 cheaper than this new 6D. Sure the 6D is arguably better on most accounts, but is it $500 better?



well that depends a lot on the IQ.
if canon managed to get banding free shadows that would make up for some shortcomings.

but still the AF is a lackluster. imagine how much better the 6D could be with a better AF.
even a AF similiar to the 60D would be welcome now.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 25, 2012)

6D for me is a good landscape photogear for people with average financial capability. It is a little bit overpriced. If it can go down 1700 or below, it will be a fantastic camera. Advanced amateur sports photogs should get 7D2 anyway...


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## iaind (Sep 27, 2012)

Overpriced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For £240 more could get a 5DIII from HK


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