# Canon Announces the Cinema EOS C100 Mark II



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 22, 2014)

```
<p>Well, this <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/10/the-next-cinema-eos-camera-will-be-cr2/" target="_blank">came a little sooner than we thought it would</a>. Canon has announced the replacement to the Canon Cinema EOS C100 with a Mark II version.</p>
<p><strong>Highlights</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Super 35mm 8.3MP CMOS Sensor + EF Mount</li>
<li>1920×1080 60/50i, 24/25p, PF30, PF23.98</li>
<li>Built-In Dual Pixel CMOS AF Hardware</li>
<li>AVCHD + MP4 Recording</li>
<li>Dual SDHC/SDXC Media Card Slots</li>
<li>HDMI Output with Timecode & Canon Log</li>
<li>ISO 320 to 80,000</li>
<li>Canon Log and Wide DR Gamma</li>
<li>Two XLR Audio Connectors</li>
<li>Built-In 2.4 GHz & 5 GHz WiFi Capability</li>
</ul>
<p><strong><strong>Preorder the Canon EOS C100 Mark II: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086125-REG/canon_eos_c100_cinema_eos.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/CAC100EFNM2.html?KBID=64393" target="_blank">Adorama</a></strong></strong></p>
<p>Press release and features after the break.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>The <b>Canon EOS C100 Mark II Cinema EOS Camera with Dual Pixel CMOS AF</b> is Canon’s updated version of the C100 designed for event videographers, documentarians, and independent filmmakers. It incorporates the continuous autofocus function compatible with all Canon autofocus lenses, using Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology. This new feature provides faster and more accurate autofocusing to assist users when operating with small crews.</p>
<p>The Mark II also adds a variety of upgraded features including face detection AF, MP4 recording, additional frame rates when recording in AVCHD and slow & fast motion options when recording in MP4. The Mark II also has an additional microphone on the camera body for recording sound when the top handle is removed. It incorporates a 3.5″ OLED display with increased resolution, and the EVF is now almost twice as large as on the original C100 and tilts as well. The Mark II supports GPS, and features built-in wireless functionality. The HDMI output supports timecode, as does the original C100, but it also supports Canon Log LUT.</p>
<p>The EOS C100 Mark II uses the same Super 35mm Canon CMOS sensor and DIGIC DV III image processor as its big brother, the C300. With an EF lens mount, the camera is compatible with the full range of Canon EF, EF-S, and EF Cinema lenses. This is particularly useful for DSLR shooters who have already invested in Canon lenses. The camera uses the AVCHD codec to record 1080p video up to 24 Mbps. It supports dual SD/SDHC/SDXC memory cards which, thanks to the efficient AVCHD codec, allows you to record nearly three hours of HD video on a single 32GB card. For professional applications, you can also record clean, uncompressed 4:2:2 video with embedded timecode via the HDMI output.</p>
<p>The ergonomic design of the EOS C100 Mark II is streamlined to support one-person shoots. Weighing only 2.2 pounds in its basic configuration, the camera’s flexible modular design supports a variety of shooting styles. Additional features such as One-Shot AF and Push Auto Iris allow operators to spend less time checking camera settings and more time capturing cinematic footage.</p>
<div class="sectionHeaders" data-selenium="sectionHeaders">
<dl>
<dt><strong>Dual Pixel CMOS AF Technology</strong></dt>
<dd>The Continuous AF (Autofocus) function for all autofocus lenses, using Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology. A new AF Lock setting also lets you change the image framing while holding the desired focus. This feature is ideal for users who regularly shoot with smaller crews, who shoot moving subjects, or who want smoother, more natural-looking autofocus.Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology features a CMOS sensor that consists of an array of pixels that each feature two separate photodiodes. By continuously comparing their outputs during AF mode, phase-difference autofocus helps ensure non-blurred images and smooth focus transitions even when the talent and/or camera are moving. The new feature places a high priority on maintaining sharp focus while providing a natural, smooth autofocus movement with select Canon EF lenses — including newer-generation STM lenses — which offer even smoother and quieter operation.</p>
</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Continuous Recording</strong></dt>
<dd>The continuous, nonstop recording function allows you to create In and Out points in the footage every time the START/STOP button is pressed. At this time, the continuous recording function is compatible with Grass Valley’s EDIUS Pro 7 software.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>320 to 80,000 ISO Range</strong></dt>
<dd>With an extended ISO range from 320 to 80,000, the EOS C100 Mark II is even more sensitive to light than its predecessor. This lets you shoot usable footage during low-light and night shoots, even when using available or ambient lighting as your main light source. Being able to operate under lower light levels means you can work quickly with smaller crews and resources, ideal for low-budget and independent filmmakers.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Menu Navigation via Camera Buttons</strong></dt>
<dd>Internal camera menus are now controllable from buttons on the camera body. While previously a removable joystick was the only way to control the internal menus, now buttons on the rear of the camera under the built-in monitor can be used. This lets you access the menus when the side grip is removed.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Viewfinder Magnification Location Shift</strong></dt>
<dd>Manually move the center of the camera’s magnification viewing area to one of 25 different locations throughout the image frame using the joystick. Now camera operators can easily check focus even on subjects that are located away from the center of the image frame.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Record Button Lock</strong></dt>
<dd>The Key Lock setting now makes it possible to lock all operations, including the record button. This helps to prevent accidental operation during a critical shoot by the operator inadvertently pressing a wrong button.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Super 35mm 8.3MP CMOS Sensor</strong></dt>
<dd>The Super 35mm-sized sensor provides an angle-of-view and depth of field that equivalent to that of traditional Super 35mm film. With a native resolution of 8.3MP and a wider pixel pitch than conventional professional camcorders, the sensor offers enhanced sensitivity and reduced noise in low light environments.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>DIGIC DV III Image Processor</strong></dt>
<dd>Designed and built by Canon for the highest HD RGB processing, the DIGIC DV III Image Processor uses proprietary circuits and architecture to deliver the highest image quality at the highest speeds, with low power consumption and minimal heat output. It processes the RGB representations that originate in the single CMOS sensor of the camera into three channels (Red, Blue, and Green) to maintain the rich resolution and clean color fidelity formerly possible only in three-chip sensor designs.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Low Light Sensitivity</strong></dt>
<dd>Working together, the Super 35mm sensor and DIGIC DV III Image Processor achieve a high signal-to-noise ratio that enables recordings with great detail and dynamic range even in minimal light.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Canon Log Gamma and Wide DR Gamma</strong></dt>
<dd>Canon Log records an image with subdued contrast and sharpness, which preserves a high dynamic range and presupposes color grading in post production. Canon Log Gamma emphasizes rich gradients from mid-range to highlights, resulting in 12-stops of dynamic range. At ISO 850 and above, Canon Log Gamma enables 5.3 stops of latitude above optimal exposure (and 6.7 stops below), broadening the available dynamic range in color grading.Wide DR Gamma yields wide dynamic range by suppressing brightness while maintaining gradations, but is designed to produce finished-looking images without requiring any color grading in post-production.</p>
</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>EF Lens Mount with EF Contacts</strong></dt>
<dd>The camera is fully compatible with Canon’s renowned EF mount lenses. Even specialty lenses, such as Canon’s 24mm f/3.5L II tilt shift lens or the 8-15mm f/4L Ultra-Wide Zoom fisheye lens. When shooting with EF lenses, the camera features peripheral illumination correction, which automatically compensates for light fall-off in the corners of the image.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Multiple Recording Modes and Frame Rates in AVCHD</strong></dt>
<dd>The camera supports AVCHD bit rates up to 24 Mbps (LPCM) at a maximum resolution of 1920×1080. Frame rates of 60i, 50i, 24p, 25p, PF30, and PF24 are all available to meet the needs of your production workflow. In addition, the 60i frame rate offers reduced rolling shutter artifacts. It supports relay recording of long takes between dual SD cards or can write video to both cards for redundancy in the event of SD card failure. Pre REC mode buffers approximately three seconds before the tally light activates.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Multiple Recording Modes and Frame Rates in MP4</strong></dt>
<dd>The C100 Mark II supports recording in 1920 x 1080p recording to MP4, at multiple frame rates, and also supports 720 and 640 x 360 frame sizes.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Uncompressed HDMI Out with Timecode & Canon Log LUT Support</strong></dt>
<dd>Outputting an uncompressed signal via HDMI. This signal can superimpose timecode and the 2:3 pulldown marker, which means an external recorder and converter can process the HDMI output as an SDI signal. External recorders provide an instant back-up and help to streamline post-production workflows. The HDMI output also supports Canon Log LUT output.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Compact and Ergonomic Design</strong></dt>
<dd>Designed with the solo shooter in mind it is 85% the size of the Canon C300, and it is based on a mobile core design that allows additional accessories to be attached depending on the situation. Strip the camera down for a “run-and-gun” style, or complement the camera with the full range of camera-mounted accessories. With a compact body, you can even shoot dual-camera 3D without an over-sized and cumbersome rig. Its light weight reduces user fatigue and allows even elaborate rigging systems to remain mobile enough for a single operator. The removable accessory hand grip rotates 360 degrees for comfortable shooting positions, while customizable hardware buttons allow the camera to fit your own personal shooting preferences.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Removable Top Handle with XLR Inputs and Stereo Microphone</strong></dt>
<dd>Including a top mounted handle unit, which features two XLR connectors and a microphone shock mount. XLR connections offer a high quality audio input for professional grade microphones and facilitate 2 channel 48kHz linear PCM (24 Mbps) audio recordings.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>High Resolution EVF and Integrated OLED Display</strong></dt>
<dd>Accurately check focus, composition, and exposure with the 1.23 million dot-equivalent 0.45″ electronic viewfinder with 100% coverage. The built-in 3.5″ 1.23MP equivalent OLED panel tilts 100 degrees for flexibility when composing tough perspective shots and rotates 180 degrees to protect the screen when not in use. Use the LCD display to review footage or to view the camera’s waveform monitor.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>AVCHD or MP4 File Based Recording to SD Cards</strong></dt>
<dd>The camera records video to SDHC/SDXC cards using AVCHD, a high-efficiency codec that has quickly become a standard in both the professional and consumer video markets. Maximum bit-rate is 24 Mbps. Video files greater than 2GB are split into multiple files while recording, which are automatically joined together upon import using Canon Data Import. AVCHD video is widely supported across NLE systems and is the standard codec for Blu-Ray.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dd class="featuredd">The camera records using the MP4 codec, and can record in fast motion (25% faster) or slow motion (40% slower) in MP4 recording mode.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Full Manual Control and Focusing Aids</strong></dt>
<dd>The camera offers complete manual control of each aspect of the recording process. Create and recall custom picture settings, camera functions, and display options. The camera also features several powerful and intuitive focusing aids in both the EVF and LCD monitor that make it easy to confirm critical focus distance; Peaking Modes and Magnify Focus Modes are available while in standby or while recording. Additionally, the LCD features Edge Monitor Display; green waveform display the overall focus of the scene and red waveform provide focus feedback of the three focus check boxes visible on the LCD monitor.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>One Shot AF and Push Auto Iris</strong></dt>
<dd>One-Shot AF executes focus adjustments with a dedicated button, and the Push Auto Iris button automatically adjusts the aperture of the lens to quickly and easily maintain proper exposure. Both of these functions can be accessed even when operating in manual mode.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Built-In ND Filters</strong></dt>
<dd>In excessively bright environments neutral density filters are often required to avoid over exposure, without compromising desirable shutter and aperture settings. It features built-in ND filters in three densities, which make for four ND configurations (OFF, 2 stops, 4 stops, 6 stops). The built-in ND filters are deployed via a manual dial.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Remote Terminal</strong></dt>
<dd>Remotely control the camera via its LANC-compatible remote terminal. Remote operation allows for single-person operation even in creative rigging situations.</dd>
</dl>
<dl>
<dt><strong>Additional Features</strong></dt>
<dd>
<ul>
<li>Waveform monitor; standard and RGB modes</li>
<li>Exposure/Focus aids: Peaking, Zebra, Magnify, Edge Monitor Focus Assist, Black and White Mode</li>
<li>Drop Frame (DF) or Non-Drop Frame (NDF) Timecode</li>
<li>Timecode modes: Regen, Record Run, Free Run</li>
<li>Nice Customized Picture Profiles available in camera and up to 20 can be saved to an SD card</li>
<li>Custom picture profiles can be adjusted using the following settings: Gamma, Black, Black Gamma, Low Key Saturation, Knee, Sharpness, Noise Balance, Color Correction, Setup Level</li>
<li>15 assignable function buttons</li>
<li>SMPTE, EBU, or ARIB standard color bars can be selected</li>
</ul>
</dd>
</dl>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-17650" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/C1002_02.jpg" alt="C1002_02" width="500" height="500" /></p>
<p>Press Release Below</p>
</div>
<p><strong>MELVILLE, N.Y., Oct 21, 2014 (BUSINESS WIRE)</strong> — Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, announced today the Canon EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera, the latest edition to the Canon Cinema EOS line of professional Super 35mm 8.3 megapixel CMOS cameras and the second-generation version of the popular Canon EOS C100 Digital Video Camera.</p>
<p>Designed for economical film and video productions such as documentary and remote broadcast crews, wedding and event coverage, indie film productions, as well as film schools and business and government users, the new EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera, features advanced image processing, AVCHD and MP4 1920×1080/60p recording, uncompressed YCbCr output from HDMI, and many other new and enhanced capabilities for improved picture quality, operability, and convenient handling. Delivering a cinematic look with shallow depth of field and high sensitivity in low-light environments, the new EOS C100 Mark II camera weighs just 2.5 lbs. and is compatible with over 103 Canon EF Series lenses, including STM models which can deliver smooth and silent autofocus during filmmaking.</p>
<p>“Canon’s commitment to the advancement of tools for visual expression takes another major step forward with the introduction of the EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO of Canon U.S.A., Inc. “Drawing on input from Canon’s global community of Cinema EOS camera users and from digital filmmakers using Canon EF lenses – 100 million of which have now been produced worldwide1 – the Company has added new capabilities to the EOS C100 Mark II from its predecessor that powerfully leverage our considerable expertise in optics, imaging, and digital signal processing. The result is an improved, affordable Super 35mm CMOS digital camera that is designed to provide outstanding HD image quality, operational performance, ergonomics, and workflow convenience.”</p>
<p><strong>Design Enhancements</strong></p>
<p>Optimized for one-person operation, the new EOS C100 Mark II camera has a mobile core design enabling users to choose their preferred style of shooting. The existing design has been enhanced to include a large-size detachable eyecup for the camera’s large 68-degree tilting 0.45-inch 1.23 megapixel color EVF (electronic viewfinder). Clearly marked red trigger buttons on the camera body, top handle, grip, and a built-in mono microphone on the camera body — for times when the top handle is not attached — can be used to capture basic sound for audio notation or as an aid to audio syncing during post.</p>
<p>Another major redesign of the new EOS C100 Mark II over its predecessor is an innovatively hinged 3.5-inch 1.23 megapixel OLED display panel, delivering 100 percent field-of-view coverage, wide color range support, and improved viewing even in bright sunshine. The new hinge design — which folds the panel shut when stowed, protecting the OLED surface — opens 180 degrees to reveal function keys and a joystick. The panel can open even further to 270 degrees to deploy against the side of the camera to provide monitoring for directors and other production personnel. Additional design improvements on the camera body include 17 assignable recessed function buttons, dual SD card slots with a transparent cover, and a simplified battery insertion and removal release.</p>
<p><strong>Visual Expression</strong></p>
<p>Previously available only as an optional upgrade for earlier Cinema EOS models, Dual Pixel CMOS AF is a standard feature on the new EOS C100 Mark II, providing enhanced autofocusing capability. The Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology helps provide smooth and consistent autofocus, so that focus transitions are natural looking and subjects can remain in focus even as they move off center. In addition, the compatibility of Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Canon EF autofocus lenses combines outstanding optical tools with a wide range of creative options. It’s ideal for shooting sports, weddings and many more productions where focus pulling by a single operator is not feasible, such as when the video camera is attached to steadicams or drones. The EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera also includes Face-Detection AF2, a first in the Cinema EOS camera line, which utilizes contrast detection AF to maintain focus across most of the image plane, an advantage in one-person electronic news gathering (ENG) situations.</p>
<p><strong>Imaging and Recording</strong></p>
<p>Central to many of the new features of the new EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera is its advanced Canon DIGIC DV4 image processor. The Canon DIGIC DV4 image processor separates the RGB output from the camera’s 8.3 Megapixel CMOS imager into three individual 8 megapixel signals (as opposed to 2MB in the EOS C100) for noticeably improved image quality. The Canon DIGIC DV4 processor also includes a new debayering algorithm to help minimize moiré and reduce video noise even at high ISO speeds. (high-sensitivity recording on the camera ranges from ISO 320 to 80,000).</p>
<p>Another important benefit of the Canon DIGIC DV4 processor is Full HD recording in both the high-quality professional format AVCHD or the popular web-friendly MP4 format at a variety of bit rates (up to 28 Mbps and 35 Mbps, respectively), resolutions, and frame rates (up to the smooth look of 59.94p) to suit practically any production need.3 For special-effect requirements, slow and fast motion MP4 recording at up to 1920×1080/60p can also be performed.</p>
<p>Users can choose from multiple formats that support MP4 or AVCHD to suit a wide variety of production, post, and output needs. The EOS C100 Mark II camera’s dual SD card slots can record in one or both formats simultaneously4 for back-up, or convert AVCHD and MP4 files into smaller MP4 files for web upload.5 Extended clip times can be achieved by recording continuously from one card to the other without a break. In addition, a Data Import Utility application is included that can seamlessly join divided files to help reduce work during editing and to import video file data from an SD card inside the camera or a card reader.</p>
<p>As with the other cameras in Canon’s Cinema EOS line, the new EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera includes Canon Log as a recording choice, providing maximum dynamic range for post-production color grading. New, however, is the addition of a built-in LUT (look-up table), enabling users to view the camera’s live video signal in Wide DR (dynamic range) or the BT.709 (TV standard) color space on the OLED or any external monitor connected to the camera’s locking HDMI® output (this feature can be turned off in the menu). Uncompressed video output (with time code data and 2:3 pull-down markers superimposed) can be output via HDMI to an external recorder.</p>
<p><strong>Connectivity Innovations</strong></p>
<p>The addition of wireless file-transfer capabilities further expands the versatility of the new EOS C100 Mark II camera for multiple production applications, including transferring time-critical news video or backing-up files. Utilizing dual 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz frequencies, the camera can transfer video files via FTP server for instant relay, or send MP4 video to the web browsers of laptops or tablets for viewing and storage (even on PC’s lacking playback software). Remote control of the camera is also enabled via a compatible smartphone, tablet, or laptop. The new EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera also includes compatibility with the optional multi-functional Canon RC-V100 Remote Controller, which can be used to adjust image quality and other important operations from a distance, a handy feature for shooting from a jib arm, drone, or other inaccessible location.</p>
<p>In addition, the optional Canon GP-E2 EOS GPS Receiver can be connected to the EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera using a USB cable to record location and time information during shooting, a helpful feature for editing and archiving.</p>
<p><strong>Pricing and Availability</strong></p>
<p>The Canon EOS C100 Mark II Digital Video Camera is scheduled to be available at the end of December 2014 for an estimated retail price of $5,499.00.</p>
<p><strong>About Canon U.S.A., Inc.</strong></p>
<p>Canon U.S.A., Inc., is a leading provider of consumer, business-to-business, and industrial digital imaging solutions. With approximately $36 billion in global revenue, its parent company, Canon Inc. <span class="quote up bgQuote" data-channel="/quotes/zigman/192225/composite"><a class="qt-chip trackable" href="http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/caj?mod=MW_story_quote" data-fancyid="XNYSStockCAJ" data-track-mod="MW_story_quote">CAJ, <span class="bgPercentChange">+0.29%</span></a></span> ranks third overall in U.S. patents granted in 2013+ and is one of Fortune Magazine’s World’s Most Admired Companies in 2014. In 2013, Canon U.S.A. has received the PCMag.com Readers’ Choice Award for Service and Reliability in the digital camera and printer categories for the tenth consecutive year, and for camcorders for the past three years. Canon U.S.A. is committed to the highest level of customer satisfaction and loyalty, providing 100 percent U.S.-based consumer service and support for all of the products it distributes. Canon U.S.A. is dedicated to its Kyosei philosophy of social and environmental responsibility. In 2014, the Canon Americas Headquarters secured LEED® Gold certification, a recognition for the design, construction, operations and maintenance of high-performance green buildings. To keep apprised of the latest news from Canon U.S.A., sign up for the Company’s RSS news feed by visiting <a class="icon " href="http://cts.businesswire.com/ct/CT?id=smartlink&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usa.canon.com%2FRSS&esheet=50967044&newsitemid=20141021006920&lan=en-US&anchor=www.usa.canon.com%2Frss&index=1&md5=5765ca8a42a7222f13c498eff6e58613" target="_new">www.usa.canon.com/rss</a> and follow us on Twitter @CanonUSA.</p>
<p>+ Based on weekly patent counts issued by United States Patent and Trademark Office.</p>
<p>All referenced product names, and other marks, are trademarks of their respective owners.</p>
<p>Availability, prices, and specifications of all products are subject to change without notice.Actual prices are set by individual dealers and may vary.</p>
<p>1Refers to EF Lenses, EF-S Lenses and Cinema Lenses produced worldwide from 1987 to First Half of 2014.</p>
<p>2Requires use of Canon STM lenses.</p>
<p>3For complete specifications on bit rates and corresponding frame rates and recording formats please visit:<a class="icon " href="http://cts.businesswire.com/ct/CT?id=smartlink&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usa.canon.com&esheet=50967044&newsitemid=20141021006920&lan=en-US&anchor=www.usa.canon.com&index=2&md5=1f87eb01253ffcf7c60b69a0265bfc4f" target="_new">www.usa.canon.com</a></p>
<p>4This function records the images on the card in the sub slot as well, while images are concurrently being recorded on the card in the main slot. Users have the following selection options for the format with which to record the images on the card in the sub slot.</p>
<p>(a)Slot recording using the same movie format (AVCHD/MP4)</p>
<p>(b)Different MP4 (4 Mbps or 3 Mbps) recording in sub slot from main slot However, 28 Mbps (AVCHD) and MP4 (4Mbps or 3Mbps) as well as 35Mbps (MP4) andMP4 (4Mbps or 3Mbps) double-slot recording is not possible. Use of double-slot recording together with slow & fast motion recording or relay recording is not possible, and if such an attempt is made, double slot recording takes priority.</p>
<p>5Footage shot in the 28 Mbps mode for AVCHD and 35 Mbps mode for MP4 cannot be converted.</p>
<p>SOURCE: Canon U.S.A., Inc.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## BozillaNZ (Oct 22, 2014)

Does it have 4K recording?
How many stops of usable sensor DR?

Please at least let us see a glimpse of hope that you will up in the sensor game? If it's the same 11-bit sensor they can go to hell.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

Hmm this seems like very, very bad news for the 5D4. If even this doesn't offer 4k what hope is there for 4k 10bit 4:2:2 from 5D4 or even 4k 8bit and 1080p 10bit 4:2:2?? Or, heck, even a crisp, top quality 1080P 8bit.

Looking more and more like money will be going to Sony (and perhaps even Nikon).


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## andrewflo (Oct 22, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Hmm this seems like very, very bad news for the 5D4. If even this doesn't offer 4k what hope is there for 4k 10bit 4:2:2 from 5D4 or even 4k 8bit and 1080p 10bit 4:2:2?? Or, heck, even a crisp, top quality 1080P 8bit.
> 
> Looking more and more like money will be going to Sony (and perhaps even Nikon).



My thoughts exactly. The 5D4 will almost certainly not have 4K recording. Honestly I'm a little disappointed at the Canon road map that this new announcement reveals.


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## Koemans (Oct 22, 2014)

Very mixed views on this. With only a 30fps increase, there is very little reason for anyone with the mark 1 to upgrade. Canon appears to lack innovation yet again. On the other hand, 4k is not readily available to consumers yet. Sure you can record whatever you'd like in 4k at weddings, but you have to downscale everything so you can put it on a dvd or bluray.. there is no universal disc yet that can hold up to 300gb, there are no discwriters available anytime soon if such a disc ever hits the stores that replaces bluray. The c100 is obviously aimed for sports / weddings / indy filmmakers or whatever so it is logical to have it only record 1920x1080 for the above reasons. 

But canon does seem to scare the small film makers away.. thats a hefty price for only full HD, meanwhile you can get a a7s + external 4k recorder for only 4000 dollars.


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## Lee Jay (Oct 22, 2014)

Why would they provide quality video and 4k in a $3k 5DIV or sub $2k 7DII when they can get $20k for it in a C500?

Frankly, I don't care all that much, since I think the quality of the imagery in video is usually mostly irrelevant. The only time I'll ever make an effort to get higher video quality than, say, my SDTV, is when I visit a real IMAX theater (you know - the 15 perf 70mm horizontal version) to see a documentary where the photography is just totally outrageous, the bulbs are 15 kilowatts, and the screen occupies around 90 degrees of my field of view.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Oct 22, 2014)

Koemans said:


> Very mixed views on this. With only a 30fps increase, there is very little reason for anyone with the mark 1 to upgrade. Canon appears to lack innovation yet again. On the other hand, 4k is not readily available to consumers yet. Sure you can record whatever you'd like in 4k at weddings, but you have to downscale everything so you can put it on a dvd or bluray.. there is no universal disc yet that can hold up to 300gb, there are no discwriters available anytime soon if such a disc ever hits the stores that replaces bluray. The c100 is obviously aimed for sports / weddings / indy filmmakers or whatever so it is logical to have it only record 1920x1080 for the above reasons.
> 
> But canon does seem to scare the small film makers away.. thats a hefty price for only full HD, meanwhile you can get a a7s + external 4k recorder for only 4000 dollars.


Welcome to the forum. I also see no reason to record 4K today. TV sets in people's homes are not capable of displaying 4K. The Bluray disks do not have the ability to record 4K, without making dishonest compression that will steal the potential quality of 4K. 

Seems to me that there is a feeling like "_I have a dick that is bigger than yours_". :-X


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## Koemans (Oct 22, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Koemans said:
> 
> 
> > Very mixed views on this. With only a 30fps increase, there is very little reason for anyone with the mark 1 to upgrade. Canon appears to lack innovation yet again. On the other hand, 4k is not readily available to consumers yet. Sure you can record whatever you'd like in 4k at weddings, but you have to downscale everything so you can put it on a dvd or bluray.. there is no universal disc yet that can hold up to 300gb, there are no discwriters available anytime soon if such a disc ever hits the stores that replaces bluray. The c100 is obviously aimed for sports / weddings / indy filmmakers or whatever so it is logical to have it only record 1920x1080 for the above reasons.
> ...



True and thanks^^

The discussion between 2k and 4k is getting a little silly. It is almost like argueing how a 36 megapixel wins over a 22 megapixel camera while you only publish photos on the internet, or how there is noise on a APS-C camera when you zoom in 200%, that is like using a microscope to look at a printed a4 image on your wall!

We need a solid and widely accepted medium first with discwriters and everything before 4k becomes the new standard in even 400 dollar cameras. Consumer computers never get past the 1TB storage on average too and you also run into the problem that you need HUGE SD/CF cards to record 4k, which are very expensive and consumer unfriendly


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## Policar (Oct 22, 2014)

As a C100 owner, I'm pretty happy with Canon's update!

Fwiw I still think the CX00 series offers the best looking image on the market below the Alexa, though Canon Log sucks (wide DR is great).

For the best specs, get anything else and spend a lifetime grading it to look as good as Canon's AVCHD.


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## Lee Jay (Oct 22, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I also see no reason to record 4K today.



So I can stabilize in post, crop, downsample, and still have 1080p left.


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

Really bad news for Canon this mild refresh is all they could manage. The Sony FS7 will run away with sales this season now. This refresh was due last year or so. We could just about fake 60p slomo with 60i already. The card format is still the same old SDXC and won't be firmware upgradable to 4K. There is no mention of whether you can move the AF point yet or if it's still stuck in the center (I imagine it is stuck as Westfall claimed it was a DPAF sensor limitation). Stills shooters can survive with only center AF but video absolutely cannot. Of course cinema shooters don't autofocus unless forced.

Canon also announced a contraption kit that tries to make a C300 sit cat-on-a-shoulder like the FS7 does stock for half the price. No dice.

If the C400 (affordable 4K120 onto CFast I'd guess, under $10K) shows up at NAB they are still in the game but limping a bit. The FS7 really is stealing the show. The new 50-1000 zoom is amazing for a niche lens but it only covers Super35. Which may suggest Canon isn't doing a full frame video camera other than the 1DC derivatives. Yes I do doubt 4K in a 5D4. 1DCmkII yes.

I imagine the new EVF and OLED are nice, but it's basically the same camera. Day late and a dollar short Canon. This is still better than a DSLR but there is no reason not to buy the FS7 instead.


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## LearningCameras (Oct 22, 2014)

Don't underestimate 4k. While I don't expect to be mastering out to 4k for a year or two, you will very soon be needing it. Any new camera without it for video will have a shorter shelf life and lower resale value.
Plus, shooting 4k and mastering to 1080p has revolutionized how I film weddings. We can't always set up our shots beforehand and being able to crop/zoom, recompose,stabilize, and even pan in post is amazing!


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## HurtinMinorKey (Oct 22, 2014)

Policar said:


> As a C100 owner, I'm pretty happy with Canon's update!
> 
> Fwiw I still think the CX00 series offers the best looking image on the market below the Alexa, though Canon Log sucks (wide DR is great).
> 
> For the best specs, get anything else and spend a lifetime grading it to look as good as Canon's AVCHD.



While in general i won't agree that it offer the best image for the price, i will say that it produces a good image with very little haste, and that people who know what they are doing are putting out some pretty impressive stuff with the AVCHD on the C100:

https://vimeo.com/108883478


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

It's $5500.

I imagine the face detection AF doesn't use DPAF but uses a lamer contrast detection scheme. Or maybe the AF point is movable. Would like a definitive on that.

The Atomos Ninja can't record 1080p60 via HDMI (can do 1080i60 as on the original C100). So that will be a highly compressed AVCHD output...better than interpolated 1080i60 we already have? Doubt the HDMI out even sends 1080p60 but that is another opportunity for an informed person to distinguish themselves by sharing.

It's nice they finally made it work handleless (it has a built-in mic, and a teeny joystick on the OLED display). This is more or less a "what I meant" product...the things that they compromised on to get it out the door quickly at a price point have finally been fixed. It's amazing how slow Canon is rolling out basic things like firmware tweaks. I hope it's all hands on deck getting something together that will hurt the FS7.


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## gsealy (Oct 22, 2014)

Policar said:


> As a C100 owner, I'm pretty happy with Canon's update!
> 
> Fwiw I still think the CX00 series offers the best looking image on the market below the Alexa, though Canon Log sucks (wide DR is great).
> 
> For the best specs, get anything else and spend a lifetime grading it to look as good as Canon's AVCHD.



I own a C100 and this update is not obsoleting it for me. The bigger and tiltable LCD screen is nice, but I do most of my monitoring on the Ninja. Also MP4 internal is not important to me as I do external recording. I don't care about WiFi. The sensor is the same. Slow motion and fast motion are not important for what I do. The existing XLR recording capability is fine and I often record externally anyway. Don't care about GPS. 

So the C100 MII is an evolutionary change and it basically protects those, like myself, that spent $5K or so on the C100. The biggest thing for me is the image quality, the dual pixel AF, the low light quality, external HDMI recording, and the lens support.


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## preppyak (Oct 22, 2014)

I get the feeling this is the wrong forum to understand this announcement...many won't understand how important timecode + super 35mm is for many productions. The EOS-Cinema line is very clearly aimed at indie and studio production and workflow. They dont care about being cutting edge, because production studios care far more about saving at the margins than they do about DR and high ISO. The C300 sold well because it worked great for TV production. This'll ren well because its cheap and decent for doc and indie work.

Why people are comparing a theoretical 5dIV (which has literally none of the same specs as this camera) is beyond me. Productions would choose this over a 4k 5D because of timecode alone. Whats confusing is why they didn't up the bitrate to make it cover broadcast quality.


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## tyger11 (Oct 22, 2014)

This just made BlackMagic, Sony and Panasonic's day.


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## SPG (Oct 22, 2014)

This is pointless. Nothing there that should be considered more than just a minor incremental improvement. 60fps? Nope, 60i which it already has. Face detection AF? Gee, that's nice, but not that big of a deal. Improved EVF? You mean the EVF that it was supposed to have? We've gotten past that. I'd expect this level of improvement from a firmware release. 
If I was in the market for a camera today I don't think I'd be looking as closely at the C100 as I was a year ago when I bought one. Don't get me wrong, the C100 still produces the most beautiful HD image you're going to find in this price range, but it's an HD image when the world is moving to 4k acquisition. I'd be looking a little more at the Sony FS7 and seeing how that compares. Obviously the GH4 isn't going to cut it with it's video look and lack of real video camera features, but that doesn't mean that Canon should think they're hitting a home run when they just took a walk to first base.


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## Tugela (Oct 22, 2014)

Yet another Canon "Too clueless for words" innovation fail.

Are these guys completely inept when it comes to advancing their products? How hard can it be to not be stuck in 2011? Do they not realize that it is 2014 going on 2015, and maybe, just maybe, it is time to catch up to where everyone else is now instead of rehashing old technology?

Sheesh!!


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## liangfire (Oct 22, 2014)

And then, Axiom released the Beta camera and Canon, along with Nikon and RED just lost the majority of their clientele. Shattered even further with the release of the Axiom Gamma soon afterwards.

Canon, the only reason why you're even around is because of hype and Magic Lantern. And then Magic Lnatern's developers went on AXIOM and gave canon the Deuces.


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## VanWeddings (Oct 22, 2014)

this is just the mark I with 60fps and auto focus update. no thanks canon. and as to why this has to do what 5d4, if canon is so conservative with its cinema line, the 5d4 has zero chance of getting 4k


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## Axilrod (Oct 22, 2014)

So they pretty much decided to sell the C100 with AF standard and call it a Mark II? And they had the nerve to include the term "innovation" in the press release? What a joke.

And for everyone saying "no one needs 4K" blah blah blah has obviously never worked with 4K footage and seen the tremendous benefits it allows in post. 4K mastered in 1080p still looks better than 1080p. And the adoption rate of 4K is going to increase exponentially over the next few years. I'd suggest anyone looking to get a 4K camera wait until NAB, I'm sure 90% of the new cameras will be 4K.


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## Etienne (Oct 22, 2014)

This is a small refresh, nice to have stuff if you were going to buy a new C100 anyway, and that's why the price doesn't change much.

But the big news is still the Sony PXW-FS7 ... at $2,500 dollars more it still looks like a steal compared to the C100 mkII. 

I am both disappointed in the incremental upgrade (I really thought the C100 II was going to be very tempting), and happy that it looks like an easy decision: Sony wins this round.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

andrewflo said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm this seems like very, very bad news for the 5D4. If even this doesn't offer 4k what hope is there for 4k 10bit 4:2:2 from 5D4 or even 4k 8bit and 1080p 10bit 4:2:2?? Or, heck, even a crisp, top quality 1080P 8bit.
> ...



And with the way the CEO was defending their DSLR sensors and calling them the best in the world I have a bad feeling it might not improve low ISO DR either. In which case.... why buy one? Just for the upped MP count?? I can't see spending money on such a thing.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Why would they provide quality video and 4k in a $3k 5DIV or sub $2k 7DII when they can get $20k for it in a C500?



Gee I don't know. Maybe because the Sony F7 does it for $8k? The Sony A7S+Shogun does it for like $4.5k? (and that includes a fancy external monitor) The GH4 does it at least semi-passably for the 4k and pretty well for their 4k downscaled to 1080P for like $2000-something. Even the D750 is said to give a better 1080P than any Canon DSLR other than 5D3 shooting RAW with ML hack and perhaps the 1DX where it is said to be like a tie? By the time the 5D4 arrives it's not impossible that an A7S2 won't do it for $2.5k all by itself.





> Frankly, I don't care all that much, since I think the quality of the imagery in video is usually mostly irrelevant. The only time I'll ever make an effort to get higher video quality than, say, my SDTV, is when I visit a real IMAX theater (you know - the 15 perf 70mm horizontal version) to see a documentary where the photography is just totally outrageous, the bulbs are 15 kilowatts, and the screen occupies around 90 degrees of my field of view.



Hmm I couldn't possibly disagree more.
Why do you even shoot more than a 1MP stills cam then?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Koemans said:
> 
> 
> > Very mixed views on this. With only a 30fps increase, there is very little reason for anyone with the mark 1 to upgrade. Canon appears to lack innovation yet again. On the other hand, 4k is not readily available to consumers yet. Sure you can record whatever you'd like in 4k at weddings, but you have to downscale everything so you can put it on a dvd or bluray.. there is no universal disc yet that can hold up to 300gb, there are no discwriters available anytime soon if such a disc ever hits the stores that replaces bluray. The c100 is obviously aimed for sports / weddings / indy filmmakers or whatever so it is logical to have it only record 1920x1080 for the above reasons.
> ...



1. Plenty of consumer 4k sets are out there for sale and the prices aren't crazy like for OLED sets.
2. 4k downscaled to 1080P looks way, way, way better than what any Canon DSLR gives you out of cam and better for detail even than 5D3 + ML RAW.
3. you can use it to a get a 2x zoom or wildlife (which helps seeing how Canon keeps deciding to leave truly zoomed shooting out)
4. you can use it for super smooth panning and for some extra image stabilization
5. the roadmap for consumer displays has the TV makers planning to stop making 1080P for any but lowest of the low end sets by 2018 at the latest.
6. if you shoot 4k now you can view it in 4k when you get a 4k set, if you shoot 1080P now you can't view it in 4k when you eventually get a 4k set

I'm typing on a 4k set this moment.
And I was just looking at some 4k sample video and.... wow.

It;s nothing to heck to do with bragging rights.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

Koemans said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > Koemans said:
> ...



It's a heck of a lot more efficient for storage than Magic Lantern 1080P RAW (the only current way to get really decent quality out of a Canon DSLR for video).
You can get a 4TB drive for $129 at any Best Buy. What is this consumers are locked into 1TB total storage?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

*Re: Canonitis strikes Cinema EOS*



dilbert said:


> This should surprise nobody. Canon are doing with their Cx00 line what they do with DSLRs: release small incremental updates with each newer version to maximum the extraction of money from their customers.
> 
> The only thing missing from the announcement was price.



Video is a much fiercer market, far fewer fanboys and people don't get locked in as much at the upper mid and higher end so that seems a particularly dangerous game to play for video.


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

Let's not forget the 1DC, a Canon DSLR with full-frame 4K video (and the first DSLR with either).


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

peederj said:


> Let's not forget the 1DC, a Canon DSLR with full-frame 4K video (and the first DSLR with either).



Which is crippled and poor compared to the FS7 and lists for thousands more....


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

But the FS7 doesn't include a free 1DX in the tin.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

preppyak said:


> Why people are comparing a theoretical 5dIV (which has literally none of the same specs as this camera) is beyond me.



Because if you know how Canon works, this camera even though maybe it should have nothing to do with the 5D4, will. They simple refuse to give the regular DSLR line anything to touch the Cxx line at all. So if the Cxx line low end doesn't get 4k what does that bode for 4k or at even top quality Cxx-quality 1080P for the 5D4? Or even something as basic as focusing aids and zebras? Or 10bits? Or 4:2:2?


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## RobD (Oct 22, 2014)

Canon is not so concerned about their camera division these days, as they are expanding into the automotive and firearms industries. Revolutionary patents revealed.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 22, 2014)

peederj said:


> But the FS7 doesn't include a free 1DX in the tin.



True, but the pure video guys don't care at all.

And the stills and video guys could get go with with say 5D3 for stills plus A7S+Shogun and that is still less money in total than the 1DC. Or a D750+A7S+Shogun and still less money than 1DC. Or 5D3+A7R+A7S+Shogun for still less money than a 1DC. etc. A lot of stills guys prefer having a smaller stills option body than a 1DX anyway. Some wouldn't mind more low ISO DR. Or reach, maybe some combine with a 7D2. And by the time the 5D4 drops who is to say an A7S2 with internal recording won't be out for $2.5k too.


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## Ebrahim Saadawi (Oct 22, 2014)

If you use the C300 and C100 daily you will know how significantly better the C300 feels, and this upgrade makes the C100 actually nicer than the C300. The tiltable hq EVF is alone worthy of upgrade, the screen is also a great addition, slowmotion also is very good, these were the only complaints people had with the C100 and it fixed those. The dual pixel AF in the entire frame can revolutionize event/sports/documentary shooting. They also DO claim higher image quality and better high ISO performance.let's wait and see what it does in real life tests, but this seems like the most "complete" video camera for 5$k now. If you need 4K, this camera is not 4K, look at 4K cameras, there are many. 

The Canon C line while disappoints web-readers who don't actually use the cameras, prove to be the best in class when actually used. The C300 didn't become the de facto standard for news and broadcast for it's spec sheet, remember how the scarlet was announced on the same day with an enormous spec sheet, look how many use the scarlet compared to the c300 now. Let's wait until we see the images and real-life tests.


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

If the 5D4 is the high-megapixel camera, the video on it is going to be rather poor indeed, as the readout speed limits will mean either line-skipping, severe cropping, or miserable rolling shutter. I don't think the 5D4 will be the high-megapixel camera I think that will be the 1DXs or something like that. The 5D4 will be more or less the 5D3 we have now, but enhanced with the new toys like GPS, touch-to-focus, DPAF, 1080p60, and maybe a storage format bump to CFast.


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## moreorless (Oct 22, 2014)

LearningCameras said:


> Don't underestimate 4k. While I don't expect to be mastering out to 4k for a year or two, you will very soon be needing it. Any new camera without it for video will have a shorter shelf life and lower resale value.
> Plus, shooting 4k and mastering to 1080p has revolutionized how I film weddings. We can't always set up our shots beforehand and being able to crop/zoom, recompose,stabilize, and even pan in post is amazing!



For this reason I would imagine 4K might make sense on a 5D4, wedding photographers who also film and amature filmers of family events are I would guess more likely to want 4K than lower end TV/film productions the C100 seems to be aimed at. Canon will I would guess look to sell the C300/C500 or just the latter as the professional video camera with 4K video for awhile then filter it down to the cheaper C100 afterwards.

My guess is still that the high megapixel camera won't be the standard 5D but rather a new lineup.


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## WesEvans (Oct 22, 2014)

I'm guessing Canon put a typo in their press release as it says 1080p60 instead of 60i. 60p would be preferable and I'm confused how 60i is any different from the first iteration (in terms of slow motion capability), they may as well highlight that it also runs on batteries.  Hopefully it's a press release error though, I'd be rather happy with 60p.

That said, I'll likely buy it when it hits in December as I'm in the market for it. Sony's a7s' poor shutter performance easily steers me away from that as I do love handheld and a lot of motion. I'll still check out the FS7 to do full diligence, but suspect I'll stick with Canon, great shutter, no extra gear to work with my lenses, fantastic image, great battery performance, built-in XLRs...it's an ideal run 'n gun camera in my mind, and the FS7 definitely seems primed to battle it.


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## Ebrahim Saadawi (Oct 22, 2014)

WesEvans it's 60p. 60 progressive frames at 1080p for 2x slowmotion when downconverted to 30p. 60i is interlaced so every frame is. two fields therefore 60i = 30p, that was the original C100.


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## WesEvans (Oct 22, 2014)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> WesEvans it's 60p. 60 progressive frames at 1080p for 2x slowmotion when downconverted to 30p. 60i is interlaced so every frame is. two fields therefore 60i = 30p, that was the original C100.



I understand the difference between progressive and interlaced, but the specs seemed to indicate "1080 60/50i" on the snapshot of the specs here and on B&H, which I took to mean 60i & 50i, but you're sure they're saying 60p?


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## notsosem (Oct 22, 2014)

BozillaNZ said:


> Does it have 4K recording?
> How many stops of usable sensor DR?
> 
> Please at least let us see a glimpse of hope that you will up in the sensor game? If it's the same 11-bit sensor they can go to hell.



http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/cinema_eos_cameras/eos_c100_mark_ii#Features

it claims to have 12 stops of DR.


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## MGE (Oct 22, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> Why would they provide quality video and 4k in a $3k 5DIV or sub $2k 7DII when they can get $20k for it in a C500?



That depends how many C500s Canon sells. I've done some professional video work but am not plugged in enough to know how many C500 units Canon moves relative to the competition.

My suspicion is that Canon would earn greater profits if it were to provide 4K at more aggressive price points. An expensive product such as the C500 isn't necessarily more profitable than a cheaper product. It might be more profitable _per unit_ but C500 sales volume will never come anywhere near Canon's prosumer DSLR sales volume. For the strategy that your question suggests to make sense, Canon's C500 margins would have to be _insane_. 

It all depends on margins and sales volumes. The potential markets for the next 5D and the new C100 are both much, much bigger than the potential market for the C500. Seems to me that Canon could maximize these potentially large prosumer markets by catering to demand for 4K content under $10,000 (let alone under $5000, which is where I really think Canon should be looking within the next 12 months). Granted, I think Canon might be most concerned with establishing its brand in Hollywood-- a short-term concern that momentarily displaces margins and volume as the reigning considerations. Plus, from what I hear and read, the C500 is a role player in Hollywood, so Canon's decision to ignore maximized sales volume might have been a miscalculation in the first place. 

I know not everyone in this forum shares in the demand for 4K. Some are happy with HD, some consider themselves photographers with littler interest in video. That's fine. But consider this: More and more content is being consumed through screens that aren't TVs, and more and more of these screens come with greater-than-HD pixel density. It doesn't matter that most people don't have 4K TVs, at least not to the extent that some people pretend. You think there's some overlap between the sort of person who might spend $3500 on a well-configured version of Apple's new 5K iMac and the sort of person who might spend $3-5K on a DSLR or C-series camera with 4K? You bet there is. And the 5K iMac is only the most extreme and recent example. Very, very soon, Intel, Microsoft, Apple and many others are going to be pushing greater-than-HD screens in virtually all mid-to-high end laptops, tablets and all-in-one desktops. I work in the media in the tech industry, and this is coming straight from the horse's mouth. The longer Canon lags on resolution, the more exposed its relatively soft video will be on mid-to-high level new computers-- and for an increasing number of people (especially millenials), those computer screens are more important than TVs. 

All the above said, one wild card here is the new processor. Canon stuck some relatively ancient tech in the first round of C-series cameras, and it's possible the C100 Mark II produces a materially better images than its predecessor-- all while offering improved autofocus and refined ergonomics. If you're making money on jobs today, this new camera is a viable option-- especially since if you're making money, you'll be able to upgrade to a new camera when the time is right. But for the enthusiast market, or even prosumers who expect even a small degree of future-proofing (e.g. will the new C100 be lamentably dated in two years? Yes, it will), Canon's not trying all that hard.


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## WesEvans (Oct 22, 2014)

Reading through the longer spec sheet on B&H looks to confirm that it is indeed 59.94p in 1080, both mp4 and AVCHD. That's fantastic news, I'm in.


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## coldsweat (Oct 22, 2014)

WesEvans said:


> Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> 
> 
> > WesEvans it's 60p. 60 progressive frames at 1080p for 2x slowmotion when downconverted to 30p. 60i is interlaced so every frame is. two fields therefore 60i = 30p, that was the original C100.
> ...



The press release specifies AVCHD at 28mbps - this would mean 1080/50p or 1080/60p. IIRC 24mbps is for 25p/30p/50i/60i only


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## MGE (Oct 22, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Koemans said:
> 
> 
> > Very mixed views on this. With only a 30fps increase, there is very little reason for anyone with the mark 1 to upgrade. Canon appears to lack innovation yet again. On the other hand, 4k is not readily available to consumers yet. Sure you can record whatever you'd like in 4k at weddings, but you have to downscale everything so you can put it on a dvd or bluray.. there is no universal disc yet that can hold up to 300gb, there are no discwriters available anytime soon if such a disc ever hits the stores that replaces bluray. The c100 is obviously aimed for sports / weddings / indy filmmakers or whatever so it is logical to have it only record 1920x1080 for the above reasons.
> ...



There's a segment of the market that will slowly migrate to 4K TVs and next-gen disc systems. It's true that Canon doesn't need to rush to reach these people. But again, these people are only a part of the market-- and they're not necessarily the most important (e.g. trend-setting and profitable) parts. 

A lot of 4K content will be streamed rather than viewed via hard media, such as discs. Likewise, a lot of 4K content will be consumed via computers and tablets, not just TVs. I see _a lot_ of studies on different trends in device usage, and I spend _a lot_ of time talking to the people making the next generation of devices. Canon doesn't need 4K today, right this moment-- that's true. And for some customers, Canon might never need 4K. But within a year, if Canon doesn't offer 4K at a relatively accessible price point (e.g. $3-5k), it will do so at its own peril. 4K will be too relevant, and Canon's restrained video implementations will be look too soft compared to the competition. 

It's also worth pointing out that 4K is useful even if your final output will only be 1080p, as others have mentioned. Canon was happy to talk about how great the 5D Mark III was for media pros who need both stills and videos. Well, I work in that world-- and 4K would be nice. Re-framing the image, getting sharper 1080p, having options as screen density increases-- these are all legitimate uses.


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## Lee Jay (Oct 22, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly, I don't care all that much, since I think the quality of the imagery in video is usually mostly irrelevant. The only time I'll ever make an effort to get higher video quality than, say, my SDTV, is when I visit a real IMAX theater (you know - the 15 perf 70mm horizontal version) to see a documentary where the photography is just totally outrageous, the bulbs are 15 kilowatts, and the screen occupies around 90 degrees of my field of view.
> ...



For stills, IQ matters a whole lot more. You don't get all that extra information from having lots and lots of frames stung together.


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## moreorless (Oct 22, 2014)

MGE said:


> There's a segment of the market that will slowly migrate to 4K TVs and next-gen disc systems. It's true that Canon doesn't need to rush to reach these people. But again, these people are only a part of the market-- and they're not necessarily the most important (e.g. trend-setting and profitable) parts.
> 
> A lot of 4K content will be streamed rather than viewed via hard media, such as discs. Likewise, a lot of 4K content will be consumed via computers and tablets, not just TVs. I see _a lot_ of studies on different trends in device usage, and I spend _a lot_ of time talking to the people making the next generation of devices. Canon doesn't need 4K today, right this moment-- that's true. And for some customers, Canon might never need 4K. But within a year, if Canon doesn't offer 4K at a relatively accessible price point (e.g. $3-5k), it will do so at its own peril. 4K will be too relevant, and Canon's restrained video implementations will be look too soft compared to the competition.
> 
> It's also worth pointing out that 4K is useful even if your final output will only be 1080p, as others have mentioned. Canon was happy to talk about how great the 5D Mark III was for media pros who need both stills and videos. Well, I work in that world-- and 4K would be nice. Re-framing the image, getting sharper 1080p, having options as screen density increases-- these are all legitimate uses.



Again I see the market for 4K on a 5D body being potentially greater than 4K on a camera like the C100. The latter still isn't cheap and I would image that the TV and film markets that care about 4K use are going to be using the C300/C500.

The kind of use video on a 5D body gets on the other hand seems more likely to benefit from 4K. I would imagine for example that couples getting married may well care about "future proofing" video there wedding shooter may take plus as has been mentioned 4K makes editing shots you don't have much time/room to setup easier. With amateurs your likely dealing with people more likely to buy into 4K earlier than the general population plus again more likely to desire the extra editing latitude.

Not being a video shooter I would imagine that the functionality of the C100 is far beyond the 5D so the former could probably still find a market even if the latter offered 4K.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Oct 22, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> 2. 4k downscaled to 1080P looks way, way, way better than what any Canon DSLR gives you out of cam and better for detail even than 5D3 + ML RAW.



But you still have to agree that the 5D3 Raw kills cams like the GH4 for overall image quality.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Oct 22, 2014)

I'd like to remind the people talking about the FS7, that the FS700 was a Canon killer on paper too. Then we started seeing what the actual images looked like coming off the FS700, and it wasn't comparable.


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## Etienne (Oct 22, 2014)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> If you use the C300 and C100 daily you will know how significantly better the C300 feels, and this upgrade makes the C100 actually nicer than the C300. The tiltable hq EVF is alone worthy of upgrade, the screen is also a great addition, slowmotion also is very good, these were the only complaints people had with the C100 and it fixed those. The dual pixel AF in the entire frame can revolutionize event/sports/documentary shooting. They also DO claim higher image quality and better high ISO performance.let's wait and see what it does in real life tests, but this seems like the most "complete" video camera for 5$k now. If you need 4K, this camera is not 4K, look at 4K cameras, there are many.
> 
> The Canon C line while disappoints web-readers who don't actually use the cameras, prove to be the best in class when actually used. The C300 didn't become the de facto standard for news and broadcast for it's spec sheet, remember how the scarlet was announced on the same day with an enormous spec sheet, look how many use the scarlet compared to the c300 now. Let's wait until we see the images and real-life tests.


It does not say dpaf for the entire frame. I'm guessing it is just the center as before. But entire frame with a touch screen focus pull would change things


----------



## transpo1 (Oct 22, 2014)

Etienne said:


> Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> 
> 
> > If you use the C300 and C100 daily you will know how significantly better the C300 feels, and this upgrade makes the C100 actually nicer than the C300. The tiltable hq EVF is alone worthy of upgrade, the screen is also a great addition, slowmotion also is very good, these were the only complaints people had with the C100 and it fixed those. The dual pixel AF in the entire frame can revolutionize event/sports/documentary shooting. They also DO claim higher image quality and better high ISO performance.let's wait and see what it does in real life tests, but this seems like the most "complete" video camera for 5$k now. If you need 4K, this camera is not 4K, look at 4K cameras, there are many.
> ...



I agree- if Canon could integrate touch focus into the C100 for the entire frame, this would be a killer feature. Still, they have no reason to keep milking their customers for cams that are not 4K-capable. At least allow this thing to record 4K with an external recorder. It's simply very clear they are still protecting their higher-end at the expense of adding value.


----------



## transpo1 (Oct 22, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> I'd like to remind the people talking about the FS7, that the FS700 was a Canon killer on paper too. Then we started seeing what the actual images looked like coming off the FS700, and it wasn't comparable.



We've already seen images coming off of the FS7 and it's entirely different story than the FS700- images look more cinematic and using the Slog 3 yields 14 stops of dynamic range with ergonomic usability much greater. I've already heard from cinematographer friends about shows pre-ordering multiple FS7s. 

This is a potential C300/100 killer, which is why Canon is currently making moves with the C100ii and adding kits to B&H.


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Oct 22, 2014)

transpo1 said:


> We've already seen images coming off of the FS7 and it's entirely different story than the FS700



Could you provide some links? All I've seen is this: vimeo.com/105756611 which wasn't that impressive.


----------



## transpo1 (Oct 22, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > We've already seen images coming off of the FS7 and it's entirely different story than the FS700
> ...



There's another clip, here- no scientific tests yet, but it looks to me like greater dynamic range than the FS700's usable 11-12. Seems to be delivering on the promise of 14 stops. 

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/channels-xdcam_hd_products/


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Oct 22, 2014)

transpo1 said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



Yah. All the lighting is so flat and cold it's really hard to tell.


----------



## studio1972 (Oct 22, 2014)

Shame it hasn't got a touch screen like the 70D, great with the dual pixel AF.


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## transpo1 (Oct 22, 2014)

studio1972 said:


> Shame it hasn't got a touch screen like the 70D, great with the dual pixel AF.



Are you kidding- put features in that people want? That would sell far too many cameras for Canon


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## Clayton (Oct 22, 2014)

Either way you look at this, its not a compelling update. Yes if you already own a C100, you don’t have much of a reason to upgrade here. 

Surely if Canon decides to only offer “internal” 4:2:2 in a C300 upgrade for over $10,000 they cant imagine they wont loose out big time to the SONY FS7 for $8,000 (including 4K) and greatly improved ergonomics. 

Other then Canon Fanboys, Im not sure what this offers anyone really. Honestly I’m kinda mystified by this one.


----------



## transpo1 (Oct 22, 2014)

Clayton said:


> Either way you look at this, its not a compelling update. Yes if you already own a C100, you don’t have much of a reason to upgrade here.
> 
> Surely if Canon decides to only offer “internal” 4:2:2 in a C300 upgrade for over $10,000 they cant imagine they wont loose out big time to the SONY FS7 for $8,000 (including 4K) and greatly improved ergonomics.
> 
> Other then Canon Fanboys, Im not sure what this offers anyone really. Honestly I’m kinda mystified by this one.



It is mystifying and a bit insulting to their customer base. They're trying to give as little value as possible while maintaining profit. Most of the customer base recognize the lack of competitive tech specs and are much smarter than this.


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## SPG (Oct 22, 2014)

With a night's rest I still am not impressed with the update, but my disappointment is tempered a bit. 
The C100 II is nice, and the improvements are welcome, but I have to look at it as just a stopgap measure. Yes, it fixes most of the original complaints but I was really hoping it would go past that and truly innovate or have the specs that will keep it a relevant camera for the next few years. The internal downsample to HD from the 4k sensor that all the C series cameras do is beautiful. There is no debate on that. But unfortunately there are some needs for actual 4k footage out there too. Shooting for TV in Japan is all being requested in 4k already. It's not 100% yet, but it's the standard now and you have to have a good reason not to be providing 4k. Shows here in the US are doing more in 4k just for reframing in edit and "future proofing" <- in quotes because most of that will never see the light of day again after it airs, but the producers want it anyway. A lot of these guys saw the HD transition and the loss of value in 4:3 SD content so I don't blame them. 
With the C100 II Canon has made a very nice camera for today. For next year? It'll still hold up. After that? Well I can make space on the shelf of obsolete tech.


----------



## Tugela (Oct 22, 2014)

Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> If you use the C300 and C100 daily you will know how significantly better the C300 feels, and this upgrade makes the C100 actually nicer than the C300. The tiltable hq EVF is alone worthy of upgrade, the screen is also a great addition, slowmotion also is very good, these were the only complaints people had with the C100 and it fixed those. The dual pixel AF in the entire frame can revolutionize event/sports/documentary shooting. They also DO claim higher image quality and better high ISO performance.let's wait and see what it does in real life tests, but this seems like the most "complete" video camera for 5$k now. If you need 4K, this camera is not 4K, look at 4K cameras, there are many.
> 
> The Canon C line while disappoints web-readers who don't actually use the cameras, prove to be the best in class when actually used. The C300 didn't become the de facto standard for news and broadcast for it's spec sheet, remember how the scarlet was announced on the same day with an enormous spec sheet, look how many use the scarlet compared to the c300 now. Let's wait until we see the images and real-life tests.



It became the standard because at the time it delivered the best image for the price, but that is no longer true. People still use them because they have them and/or are locked into the brand for one reason or another. More advanced cameras from other manufacturers will take longer to achieve overall market penetration because people don't replace their cameras every year, but eventually they will get that market share if Canon continues to be way behind the ball.

Now days there are better options at lower price points. If Canon think that they will continue to dominate the market simply because the dominated the market in the past, they are in for a rude awakening.


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## SPG (Oct 22, 2014)

liangfire said:


> And then, Axiom released the Beta camera and Canon, along with Nikon and RED just lost the majority of their clientele. Shattered even further with the release of the Axiom Gamma soon afterwards.
> 
> Canon, the only reason why you're even around is because of hype and Magic Lantern. And then Magic Lnatern's developers went on AXIOM and gave canon the Deuces.


Ha! Thanks, I needed a good laugh this morning. 
Obviously you've never worked with any of these cameras in a professional environment. 
Canon DSLRs were used in real productions because they had something to offer...super 35mm image...and so we were willing to put up with the other shortcomings. 
RED offers a raw digital image in 5k so we overlook it's occasional bugginess.
Nikon offers, uh, offers...yeah we don't really use them. 
Canon C series offers a beautiful HD image for a fraction of the cost of an Alexa so it gets used for everything that can't afford an Alexa and doesn't have the post time available for a RED.
Black Magic sold a bunch of cameras to enthusiasts and internet fans, but you don't see it much in real production above film students first indie film. It's just too buggy and too limited to work well in a critical environment. 
Where is the Axiom going to fit in here? A beta product without a major company resources to back it up? Black Magic and AJA are much bigger companies and neither can keep their delivery dates or support needed to make their cameras work in these kinds of environments. How is Axiom going to do it? Open source? Riiiiight. It's going to be a niche camera like the Digital Bolex, and there's nothing wrong with that, just don't imagine that something that looks nice on paper is going to take over the world. Reputation and reliability often count more than specs.


----------



## Tugela (Oct 22, 2014)

MGE said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Why would they provide quality video and 4k in a $3k 5DIV or sub $2k 7DII when they can get $20k for it in a C500?
> ...



What new processor? The prosumer camcorders have DIGIC DV4 processors in them, and even those are 2013 tech.


----------



## SPG (Oct 22, 2014)

Tugela said:


> ...
> The Canon C line while disappoints web-readers who don't actually use the cameras, prove to be the best in class when actually used. The C300 didn't become the de facto standard for news and broadcast for it's spec sheet, remember how the scarlet was announced on the same day with an enormous spec sheet, look how many use the scarlet compared to the c300 now. Let's wait until we see the images and real-life tests.



It became the standard because at the time it delivered the best image for the price, but that is no longer true. People still use them because they have them and/or are locked into the brand for one reason or another. More advanced cameras from other manufacturers will take longer to achieve overall market penetration because people don't replace their cameras every year, but eventually they will get that market share if Canon continues to be way behind the ball.

Now days there are better options at lower price points. If Canon think that they will continue to dominate the market simply because the dominated the market in the past, they are in for a rude awakening.
[/quote]
I'm curious about what you think delivers a better image for the price right now. There might be some good options for enthusiasts, like the GH4 (even though it's image isn't nearly as pleasing as the C100), but I don't see too much that can handle a real production environment. FS700 is a slomo machine and looks nice with an Odyssey 7Q and more time in post, but that's more money and more parts to deal with. I don't see much else that's available now that really can give you that kind of C series image with an ergonomic and reliable setup and as streamlined a workflow. 
A good indicator to look at what people really want to use is the rental market. What's the hottest rental camera right now? C300. That's a good indicator right there since rentals aren't as tied in to the existing infrastructure. Let's see what happens once the Sony FS7 is out there in numbers. That camera is the only one that I can see really knocking the C300 off its perch.


----------



## Tugela (Oct 22, 2014)

SPG said:


> With a night's rest I still am not impressed with the update, but my disappointment is tempered a bit.
> The C100 II is nice, and the improvements are welcome, but I have to look at it as just a stopgap measure. Yes, it fixes most of the original complaints but I was really hoping it would go past that and truly innovate or have the specs that will keep it a relevant camera for the next few years. The internal downsample to HD from the 4k sensor that all the C series cameras do is beautiful. There is no debate on that. But unfortunately there are some needs for actual 4k footage out there too. Shooting for TV in Japan is all being requested in 4k already. It's not 100% yet, but it's the standard now and you have to have a good reason not to be providing 4k. Shows here in the US are doing more in 4k just for reframing in edit and "future proofing" <- in quotes because most of that will never see the light of day again after it airs, but the producers want it anyway. A lot of these guys saw the HD transition and the loss of value in 4:3 SD content so I don't blame them.
> With the C100 II Canon has made a very nice camera for today. For next year? It'll still hold up. After that? Well I can make space on the shelf of obsolete tech.



The problem is that in that price range the video processing is handled in hardware by the processor, and the DIGIC DV4 chip (which is the video equivalent of the DIGIC 6 processor) is a two year old design without 4K capabilities.

So, until they get around to making a DIGIC 7/DV5 series of processors, we are not going to see 4K from Canon.

I think that is probably the main reason why they are so laggard compared to competitors like Panasonic and Sony - they lack market foresight and were taken by surprise with the speed 4K arrived, so they were not ready for it.

We will probably see 4K options when the next round of processors comes available, until then Canon will continue to produce these obsolete updates to their equipment. My big worry about that is by the time they do get around to 4K, it will be 30p 4K and by then Panasonic/Sony will have moved on to 60p, 120p or more. Canon seem to be on the back foot most of the time.


----------



## Tugela (Oct 22, 2014)

SPG said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


I'm curious about what you think delivers a better image for the price right now. There might be some good options for enthusiasts, like the GH4 (even though it's image isn't nearly as pleasing as the C100), but I don't see too much that can handle a real production environment. FS700 is a slomo machine and looks nice with an Odyssey 7Q and more time in post, but that's more money and more parts to deal with. I don't see much else that's available now that really can give you that kind of C series image with an ergonomic and reliable setup and as streamlined a workflow. 
A good indicator to look at what people really want to use is the rental market. What's the hottest rental camera right now? C300. That's a good indicator right there since rentals aren't as tied in to the existing infrastructure. Let's see what happens once the Sony FS7 is out there in numbers. That camera is the only one that I can see really knocking the C300 off its perch.
[/quote]

Mostly people use brand X because it is brand X, no other reason. They heard than Canon is good and so they use that, but that can change very quickly, particularly if one of the other manufacturers starts to be seen as the "best". Professionals are not immune to that sort of behaviour, reading current rental practice as an indicator of the future is a big mistake.

It is like people who buy iPhones. They buy into the marketing hype that "it is the best", and will swear blind to that even though they have no idea what other phones can and will do. So they line up to buy them on the day it is released.


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## fox40phil (Oct 22, 2014)

oh my... still 60fps at 1080p... I think I'm not the only one who means that the Canon line-up stagnates...
And Canon doesn't notice this, the competition and what the people want. :-X


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## Khnnielsen (Oct 22, 2014)

When I look at the C100 MkII, I can help but think, that this is the camera, which Canon should/could have announced two years ago instead of the original C100.


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

Technical write-up on a preproduction FS7: http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/sonyxdcam/first-look-sony-pxw-fs7-l-s-s-shoulder-mount-camcorder-part-1.html

Canon only has the C500, at more than twice the price and far worse ergonomics, to compete with the FS7 right now. Sony is running away with the market.

The EVF and OLED on the C100mk2 are nice, but they're still in the wrong places. The necessity for external recorders to get high bitrates is also obsolete (it's excusable for RAW but that's it at this point). Canon's product cycles tend to be long and that's why this is a concerning development; they absolutely need an FS7 competitor delivered by NAB or they are going to be left in the dust.

The one really nice thing the Canons have going for them are the included ND and IR filters, partly enabled by their long flange distance. But the flexibility of the mirrorless mount on the FS7 can't be denied, and Canon's EOS-M mount was a spectacular failure and can't support full frame 135 sensors anyway. Sony has been calling all the right shots and finally with the FS7 pulled together a product with all the checkmarks. Three years ago, the C300/C100 were great options, and they still have a few advantages left over the Sonys, but absolutely not enough to sway purchase decisions at this point. The fact Canon have yet to respond to the Nikon D800 even is suggestive of serious difficulties in their pipeline. That said, they retain market leadership largely due to their absolute successes in 2012 and earlier and the inertia of people's lens collections.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Oct 22, 2014)

peederj said:


> Technical write-up on a preproduction FS7: http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/sonyxdcam/first-look-sony-pxw-fs7-l-s-s-shoulder-mount-camcorder-part-1.html
> 
> Canon only has the C500, at more than twice the price and far worse ergonomics, to compete with the FS7 right now. Sony is running away with the market.



Talk about the specs all you want, the *images* we've seen (which is pretty much nothing) out of the FS7 don't compete with the C300. Let's remember Sony has their own high end market to protect as well. 

Again, let's remember what people were saying about the FS700 as the Canon Cinema killer:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5136.


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## Niki (Oct 22, 2014)

Tugela said:


> SPG said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



Mostly people use brand X because it is brand X, no other reason. They heard than Canon is good and so they use that, but that can change very quickly, particularly if one of the other manufacturers starts to be seen as the "best". Professionals are not immune to that sort of behaviour, reading current rental practice as an indicator of the future is a big mistake.

It is like people who buy iPhones. They buy into the marketing hype that "it is the best", and will swear blind to that even though they have no idea what other phones can and will do. So they line up to buy them on the day it is released.
[/quote]

for advertising work I shoot onKodak with a super 35mm camera for high end work
for everything else c300…

I think this is only the tip of the iceberg from canon…will there be a c3002 ..a c200 c400 c600??


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

In the realm of subjective argument, there are far more factors outside the camera that influence image quality, but even within the camera the problems that 1700lph can solve in practice (framing, stabilization, jump cuts, etc.) probably overwhelm considerations of a baked-in "look" via camera color science settings. Then there are the ergonomic factors of whether you can get more setups done in a shoot day because the camera already has everything in place and is portable rather than requiring rigging.

If you have a shot worth fussing over, fine, hire a great colorist if necessary. But the hard part is getting that shot worth fussing over and right now I'd rather be armed with an FS7 than a C300/C100. In 2012 I would rather have the C300/C100 than the FS700, and acted on that preference, but Sony has really swept past Canon now. There are still moments that the Canons will outshine the Sonys, but they are few and far between, and with a bit of rigging (e.g. a hot IR mirror, better lighting, etc.) the differences can be overcome.


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## jeremypark (Oct 22, 2014)

As a c100 owner I feel the best part of the update seems to be the firmware update we all wanted on our existing c100's with added 60p. The AF face detection would also be handy for those of us who've paid for the dual pixel unlocking. Otherwise the camera seems very similar with the much need EV upgrade. I guess those who are disappointed might try to think of this as an upgrade... it's not a new series of camera. 

Makes me wonder if this may give clues to someone to unlock firmware on older c100's for 60p?


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## peederj (Oct 22, 2014)

The C100mk1 has the third generation chip in it, the C100mk2 has the fourth generation chip. So the new firmware won't work on the old camera. There may be improvements in the IQ enabled by the new chip beyond the 60p, we'll have to see.


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## gsealy (Oct 22, 2014)

peederj said:


> The C100mk1 has the third generation chip in it, the C100mk2 has the fourth generation chip. So the new firmware won't work on the old camera. There may be improvements in the IQ enabled by the new chip beyond the 60p, we'll have to see.



I would not be so quick to say "So the new firmware won't work on the old camera". The new chip might support the same instruction set as the previous one, and have the same registers and so on. It's just that it has faster and newer components. Can a person usually upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8 without purchasing a new processor? Yes.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 23, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > 2. 4k downscaled to 1080P looks way, way, way better than what any Canon DSLR gives you out of cam and better for detail even than 5D3 + ML RAW.
> ...



Yeah, IF you shoot it with the ML RAW. It is pretty fine for 1080P if you do that. The disk space and all gets to be tiresome after a while, but it is nice.


----------



## Mitch.Conner (Oct 23, 2014)

So do the new kits apply to the Mark II or the original C100? Seems odd timing to announce new kits for the C100 and C300 and then immediately the next day announce, "HEY EVERYBODY, WE'RE REPLACING THE C100!! PLEASE BUY THOSE KITS ANYWAYS!"


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## peederj (Oct 23, 2014)

pbr9 said:


> Just a tidbit of info, Panasonic is allegedly working on 8K for the GH5. Sony is also working on A99 successor with 8K video for 2016.



CR0


----------



## peederj (Oct 23, 2014)

Well if they do that it's not going to be targeted at video as such, it will be slanted as the ultimate tool for the dreaded "spray & pray" stills shooter. So if they forget mechanical shutter and just go with an electronic shutter, they can get the frame rate up to 30fps and stream frames out to the faster storage cards available in that era. This will be "video" but it will likely have poor DR, poor low-light, poor compression, and/or poor rolling shutter performance, as they are having to read from nearly all of a 36 megapixel sensor continuously.

But fair enough some people may actually enjoy trying to work with 8K video files for motion. I don't think that will be practical quite as soon as 2016 but by the end of the decade sure.

I am generally against continuous drive for stills shooting outside of fast action shots. It is not photography to me. Photography is about recognizing the right time to release the shutter by looking through the viewfinder. Spray & pray detaches you from the moment (and on optical VFs blocks your view of the subject). I will not be shooting 8K video for stills and I doubt I would for motion. The GH4 has barely 1080p resolution in its 4K mode as it is, their rendition of "consumer 8K" will probably have less than 2000lph.



pbr9 said:


> Rumours credibility responsibility of the respective rumour websites.
> 
> http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-sony-working-on-8k-a99-alike-cameras-to-be-released-in-2016-at-best/
> 
> http://www.43rumors.com/gh5-could-have-4k-60fps-and-8k-recording/


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## skoobey (Oct 23, 2014)

Still no 4K?

I'm sorry, are you living under a rock???

This better be dirt cheap!

And I've had experience with the current model, it is a great camera, especially with the auto focus upgrade, but ability to crop is essential in what you would consider a cinema camera. This is just plain sad.


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## leGreve (Oct 23, 2014)

This crappy update is a fine example of what happens when you try to cover too many bases.... They can't do this because that will devalue that, and they can't not do this because then that will be better.

Canon has become a joke company in so many ways. I think it stems from old fashioned management and business model. Cut off all the lose weight in the senior management and replace them with people who actually wants Canon to make a difference. (though to be honest wouldn't know who that somebody would be)

Then downsize the product catalogue by 50% and do proper stuff instead of these camera lines that may differ in appearance but in science are more or less Camera A 1.1 A 1.2 A 1.3 and so on.

Get 1-2 high end cameras
Get 1-2 semi pro cameras
Get 2-3 Consumer cameras

Cancel the rest. Then they would be able to offer something that resembles a real update rather than this bullshit.

Hello Sony, how are you doing this fine morning?


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## skoobey (Oct 23, 2014)

I would keep the same team, same production lines, same distribution but revise marketing and product placement.

They have little to no innovation products, and it's 3rd generation now of the same old product lines, THAT'S OVER A DECADE.

What they are doing is relying on returning customer base. And that's good, but EVERY generation has to carry at least one new innovation that attract's customers away from the competition.

5dII was the last camera that did it with video on a full frame, but it's been 7 years now...

VIDEO INNOVATION - higher margins, take the market away from RED

SHARING - WIFi, wireless iOS and Andriod inegration with cameras, file transferst etc, THEY NEED IT NOW

FASHIONABLE PRODUCTS - COLOR COLOR COLOR, they turned out a great white SLR, but ARE NOT SELLING IT RIGHT!!! You sell it as a Dolce Gabbana camera and shoot the spring campaign on it, and then make fabulous bags and sell it in fashion retail stores. It's not hard! General population doesn't care to go to B&H to see a white camera, it needs to be where the fashion is!

Canon is stagnating, and they need to move on!


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## leGreve (Oct 23, 2014)

skoobey said:


> I would keep the same team, same production lines, same distribution but revise marketing and product placement.
> 
> They have little to no innovation products, and it's 3rd generation now of the same old product lines, THAT'S OVER A DECADE.
> 
> ...



While RED is pretty amazing and very popular i mainstream productions, I think the real culprit is the Sony F series cameras. Heck even the A7s is better than the C100.
As far as customer return.... with the invention of adapters that do a fine job, you don't need a Canon camera for your Canon lenses. Just adapt them to RED or Sony or whatever and enjoy them.
I'm sticking with my 5D for now, but the next camera won't be a Canon, I can tell you that.
Lenses last a long time if you take care of them, so no return profit there either.


----------



## scyrene (Oct 23, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > I also see no reason to record 4K today.
> ...



This is a legitimate response, but this camera is aimed at people using professional-style rigs, no? So stabilisation isn't really an issue.


----------



## crazyrunner33 (Oct 23, 2014)

4K and UHD is not only about the resolution, it's about the color! We've been using Rec. 709 for almost 25 years, but UHD will bring Rec. 2020 which has a much wider color gamut and supports up to 12 bit instead of 8 bit. While not everybody will see the improved sharpness from UHD, we will definitely see the large increase in the color gamut and the jump from 8 bit to 10 and 12 bit. This is why professionals want to buy UHD and 4K cameras, we do not want to spend thousands on a new camera that's already behind the curve.


----------



## Lee Jay (Oct 23, 2014)

scyrene said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > ajfotofilmagem said:
> ...



For fast objects, it always is, even with a fluid head, optical IS, and electronic stabilization.


----------



## sanj (Oct 23, 2014)

peederj said:


> Well if they do that it's not going to be targeted at video as such, it will be slanted as the ultimate tool for the dreaded "spray & pray" stills shooter. So if they forget mechanical shutter and just go with an electronic shutter, they can get the frame rate up to 30fps and stream frames out to the faster storage cards available in that era. This will be "video" but it will likely have poor DR, poor low-light, poor compression, and/or poor rolling shutter performance, as they are having to read from nearly all of a 36 megapixel sensor continuously.
> 
> But fair enough some people may actually enjoy trying to work with 8K video files for motion. I don't think that will be practical quite as soon as 2016 but by the end of the decade sure.
> 
> ...



Don't think so. Think photography is about telling a story or showcasing beauty. Does not matter how.


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## Lee Jay (Oct 23, 2014)

skoobey said:


> SHARING - WIFi, wireless iOS and Andriod inegration with cameras, file transferst etc, THEY NEED IT NOW
> 
> FASHIONABLE PRODUCTS - COLOR COLOR COLOR, they turned out a great white SLR, but ARE NOT SELLING IT RIGHT!!! You sell it as a Dolce Gabbana camera and shoot the spring campaign on it, and then make fabulous bags and sell it in fashion retail stores. It's not hard! General population doesn't care to go to B&H to see a white camera, it needs to be where the fashion is!



These are what are important to you? That's pretty sad.


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## Cgdillan (Oct 23, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> skoobey said:
> 
> 
> > SHARING - WIFi, wireless iOS and Andriod inegration with cameras, file transferst etc, THEY NEED IT NOW
> ...



I agree. I would be upset if Canon decided to waste any money on this part. I think their products look fine and really don't see the NEED for wifi. I would never want to do file transfers over wifi anyway


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## transpo1 (Oct 23, 2014)

crazyrunner33 said:


> 4K and UHD is not only about the resolution, it's about the color! We've been using Rec. 709 for almost 25 years, but UHD will bring Rec. 2020 which has a much wider color gamut and supports up to 12 bit instead of 8 bit. While not everybody will see the improved sharpness from UHD, we will definitely see the large increase in the color gamut and the jump from 8 bit to 10 and 12 bit. This is why professionals want to buy UHD and 4K cameras, we do not want to spend thousands on a new camera that's already behind the curve.



Great point. Customers, especially professionals, want to feel they're getting the latest and greatest when they buy a camera and getting a stellar value. Those feelings can translate into confidence about the products. And Canon is making it increasingly difficult to feel that way when they release something.


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## Etienne (Oct 23, 2014)

scyrene said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > ajfotofilmagem said:
> ...


Sure it's not an issue ... If you are that one professional on earth who gets everything perfect the first time, even in fast moving ENG or doco environments. For the rest of us not-yet-perfect videographers ... every bit of tech helps


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## Tugela (Oct 23, 2014)

gsealy said:


> peederj said:
> 
> 
> > The C100mk1 has the third generation chip in it, the C100mk2 has the fourth generation chip. So the new firmware won't work on the old camera. There may be improvements in the IQ enabled by the new chip beyond the 60p, we'll have to see.
> ...



In these cameras the encoding is done in hardware, so yes, the new firmware most definitely will not work with the old camera since the DV3 chip encoder maxes at 1080p30 (IIRC, it actually does 1080i60, and that is reconstituted as 1080p30). The DV4 processor can encode in true 1080p60, at up to 28 mbps AVCHD and 35 mbps MP4 (30p mode footage max at 24 mbps).

If you want 1080p60 you will have to buy a new camera, firmware will not help you with the current design.


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## scyrene (Oct 23, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



So, genuine question: how did people manage until 4k started coming out a year or two ago? I don't recall footage looking really wobbly.


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## scyrene (Oct 23, 2014)

Etienne said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Jay said:
> ...



Again, that's a legitimate point. But people saying it's a killer issue... I mean, at some point, you're always going to have to make up for equipment limitations with better technique. We all want ever better technology, but I don't understand the rancour towards specific targets, e.g. non-4k cameras.


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## transpo1 (Oct 23, 2014)

scyrene said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Most of the DPs I know are now being asked by their clients to shoot 4K specifically for reframing ability in post. So, 4K is becoming a highly requested feature and a necessary one to compete, not to mention the other benefits it has for stabilization and future-proofing. So Canon is really hobbling their camera by not including it. 

I think the rancor you mention is actually a misnomer for _love_- many of the people on this forum love Canon products and want to buy them, but are disillusioned by the lack of competitive specs. I love Canon stuff, but I'm not going to buy another camera body from them for video until it's competitive with the other, more highly specced bodies out there. 

So, there it is: rancor = love for Canon


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## Niki (Oct 23, 2014)

transpo1 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



4k ??? don't know …
most major motion pictures are shooting on alexas…and film cameras…either scanning to 2k…or 2.5k…so if a client wanting to make a web commercial wants 4k ….???


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## transpo1 (Oct 23, 2014)

Niki said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Ahh, yes, very true. But most major motion pictures have the budget for increased time to shoot multiple angles and don't need to save time and $$ by shooting 4K for reframing. They also have greater post-production budgets for scanning, etc. 

Many doc-style TV shows do need that $$ savings and speed, however.


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## wernst (Oct 26, 2014)

*Re: dual pixel AF without focus touch screen is a lukewarm solution-D70 has both*


Dual pixel AF is new and nice. But … the biggest issue of this innovative feature is the limitation of the AF area to just a small square in the middle of the frame. Unfortunately you can’t move this focus square to another position of the frame. Consequently a touch screen with touch focus is a must here. 
Without touch screen it’s not possible to achieve a simple focus transition (focus pull) for a static off-center subject. It’s a lukewarm solution only, spoiling the potential of the dual pixel AF. 
Why does the C100 II not have something which the 70D already has? It’s unbelievable that the new expensive C100 II lacks a feature which the 80% cheaper DSLR has since one year. 
The bad thing is, it’s not at all the question whether the present hardware is ready for the touchscreen. (see 70D) But grand father Canon knows what we really need. 
“Eat what we serve you, because only I know what is benficial for your health and wealth”.


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## mkabi (Oct 27, 2014)

transpo1 said:


> Ahh, yes, very true. But most major motion pictures have the budget for increased time to shoot multiple angles and don't need to save time and $$ by shooting 4K for reframing. They also have greater post-production budgets for scanning, etc.
> 
> Many doc-style TV shows do need that $$ savings and speed, however.



No matter what business you're in... you're trying to make the most for the least. Time is money too. If you have a 100 days to shoot, then thats all you have... I don't think the execs and producers will be happy if you shoot till 101 days, just to fit multiple angles. Similarly, if you have a chance to complete the job in 75 days instead of 100, that would save even more money. Its just more money in your pocket.

So, obviously, given the time, budget and scope... using a non-4K camera + multiple angles out weighed the cost of a 4K camera + single angle & a lot more post production work.

Here is what you have to remember. You can do 1 take with 4K, but how many times can you reframe that to be multiple angles? You still need to do another angle no? At least 2 more... in my opinion. Then there are reshoots, because someone made a mistake...

4 times the resolution means at least 4 times the space requirements, by all accounts... 4K and most RAW footages are space eaters.... plus you have to remember redundancy so you don't lose the huge files. Post-processing & rendering these files need a beast of a computer... all these need to be considered...


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## peederj (Nov 2, 2014)

It's important to talk about distinguishable pixels rather than "4K." After the lens, the OLPF, the sensor, the RAW converter, the codec, and the necessary post, the number of pixels you can get out of a capture system is usually far less than the theoretical maximum imposed by the nominal pixel counts. Same with bit depth, sampling rate, etc. We need standardized chart/DR/RS/Noise etc. tests of every video mode of every camera but those are not to be found for reasons that continue to baffle me.

And for practical considerations, here's a nice hands-on with the FS7. Seems it's sort of at the "Mark I" level, needs firmware improvements, as does the Metabones Speedbooster to work with it. It also could use some hardware tweaks. It's a little early still for the FS7, and the Canons still have a few advantages as he mentions.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/11/01/sony-fs7-field-report-week-1-the-canon-c300-killer/


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