# Patent: Here is Canon’s IBIS unit



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 14, 2019)

> It’s no surprise anymore that IBIS is coming to future EOS R cameras, and possibly a Canon DSLR. This patent is an extremely detailed view of Canon’s IBIS unit. It looks like the technology is ready to go.
> Canon News breaks down this particular patent:
> They are looking to create high efficiency in the movement force, and to improve the linearity of the magnetic circuit for position detection.  Both of which are important to moving a large full-frame sensor quickly and with a high degree of accuracy.
> Below is an exploded view of the IBIS unit found in Japan Patent Application 2019-152785...



Continue reading...


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## vjlex (Sep 14, 2019)

Hope to see this in a camera real soon!


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## Chaitanya (Sep 14, 2019)

shunsai said:


> Hope to see this in a camera real soon!


Not many patents get implemented in real products.


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## vjlex (Sep 14, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Not many patents get implemented in real products.


I've heard that too, but I don't think this is one of those. I don't think it's a question of _if_ IBIS will be implemented, but a matter of _when_. Hopefully the answer is _soon_!


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## YuengLinger (Sep 14, 2019)

I bet it will be great.


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## edoorn (Sep 14, 2019)

if they can make it work so that it plays nicely with lens IS, they could have a great system that's better than what competitors have


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## mpb001 (Sep 14, 2019)

I would be great if Canon can to say 6 stops with non IS lenses and 6.5-7 stops with IS lenses and some other benefit with their IBIS.


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## fentiger (Sep 14, 2019)

please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


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## Kit. (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


Night cityscapes without a tripod, for example.


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## Besisika (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


Flash contribution higher than 75%


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## fentiger (Sep 14, 2019)

yeah ok. 
but night, city,and expensive camera equates to bang on the head to me!!


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## canonnews (Sep 14, 2019)

edoorn said:


> if they can make it work so that it plays nicely with lens IS, they could have a great system that's better than what competitors have


Canon has been doing a TON of patents on this very tech.


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## Nelu (Sep 14, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Night cityscapes without a tripod, for example.


Let’s not forget shooting videos! Those guys and girls will be thrilled


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## slclick (Sep 14, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Not many patents get implemented in real products.


Yet every real product has a patent. So, they're not completely worthless to post/speculate upon


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## mjg79 (Sep 14, 2019)

As I understand it there are many detailed patents that never get produced so I think we have to wait and see.

I like IBIS and wish Canon had it. To have IBIS with a 1.2 or 1.4 lens is fun. However I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't a priority for Canon.

Canon tends to concentrate on two key markets. One in consumers and the other is professionals. IBIS is of little interest to either. Consumer lenses all have IS. And now with the upcoming RF holy trinity the key pro lenses will have IS.

Who does this leave? Advanced amateurs - probably the majority who post online. We make a lot of noise but are fairly small in number. Nonetheless we are a market that clearly Nikon and Sony has gone after but we simply aren't the priority for Canon and frankly I don't mind that - I think it's the reason Canon pays so much attention to things like ergonomics, build quality, menu systems, colour science, auto focus etc rather than obsessing over dynamic range at crazy ISO.

So for the serious amateur IBIS can be very nice. It can open up some creative opportunities, it can keep ISO low for landscapes without a tripod, it acts as a sort of safety buffer if shooting say a 135 or 85 and using shutter speeds of around 1/60 or 1/100.

The thing is most professionals won't take those risks anyway. They can't say to the new bride "I'm sorry the moment he gave you the ring has a blurry photo, you must understand I was trying to shoot it at 1/20 so I could use ISO 100 and brag online about it". And most f/1.2 lenses are being used for things like portraiture where professionals will control lighting anyway. 

So while ever my first instinct is to say I want IBIS, I am pleased if it comes, it doesn't shock me one bit if Canon decides to continue with just in lens stabilisation and decide that f/1.2 lenses aren't being used in a way that benefits from IBIS. I suspect we will get an answer when we get some slower aperture primes for the RF mount. If we get more 1.8 primes like the 35mm with IS then IBIS would really only be for the 1.2 lenses and who knows if that's viable.


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## edoorn (Sep 14, 2019)

I am a pro and having IS on my 24-70 EF would have been a very good thing to have for event work. Even at 3200 you sometimes just hit a limit with shutter speed. Of course, it's no good for action but very good for instance scene setting shots, overviews, etc.


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## Chaitanya (Sep 14, 2019)

shunsai said:


> I've heard that too, but I don't think this is one of those. I don't think it's a question of _if_ IBIS will be implemented, but a matter of _when_. Hopefully the answer is _soon_!


Rumours were pointing to 90D but that didnt happen so maybe 1d mk3 or that rumoured high resolution R.


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## Proscribo (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


Scenes with little light. 

It is the same as stabilization in general. You don't always need it, but when you do, it's great to have and having it the rest of the time doesn't do any harm.


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## mjg79 (Sep 14, 2019)

edoorn said:


> I am a pro and having IS on my 24-70 EF would have been a very good thing to have for event work. Even at 3200 you sometimes just hit a limit with shutter speed. Of course, it's no good for action but very good for instance scene setting shots, overviews, etc.



Yes that I can well understand. The new RF 24-70 2.8L will have IS. Also Nikon's F mount 24-70 has VR and Tamron's and Sigma's 24-70 for SLR mounts are stabilised.

I wonder if Canon will bring out an EF 24-70 2.8 L with IS? I would buy it but I suspect they would prefer people buy the RF lens and therefore a new camera so who knows.


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## mjg79 (Sep 14, 2019)

Proscribo said:


> Scenes with little light.
> 
> It is the same as stabilization in general. You don't always need it, but when you do, it's great to have and having it the rest of the time doesn't do any harm.



I think the second part of that is the key bit really. When IBIS first started appearing I admit I was dubious - I thought having the sensor move was almost certainly going to cause problems such as it becoming misaligned over the years. However I was wrong, Minolta, Olympus and Sony showed it can be made very reliable and nowadays heating problems aren't the same issue.

I actually remember in the 90s similar arguments about in lens IS with many arguing that anything moving was going to have a big negative impact on quality.

There has also been a business side to it, Canon has been happy to sell for example an updated 85mm lens with IS rather than have people keep their old lenses and use them on a new body with IBIS - get 5 sales instead of 1.

Having said all that most tests I've seen do seem to suggest that in lens IS is superior. Nikons F-mount 24-70 VR for example stabilises better than their new Z mount 24-70 relying on IBIS. Of course some are now combining the two and apparently that brings great benefits but we will have to see how it pans out.


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 14, 2019)

Good one. I especially like parts 21c3 and 25_2 , and those little screws 28 are so cute!


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## SteveC (Sep 14, 2019)

canonnews said:


> Canon has been doing a TON of patents on this very tech.



That to me would indicate that they seriously want to use this...otherwise, they have other places to put those resources.


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## SUNDOG04 (Sep 14, 2019)

My first lens with IS was the 100 macro. It has proven extremely useful, and I cannot imagine buying a lens without that unless the body had IS. Those who think they do not need it (and it isn not always needed) should try using or renting a lens and they may be surprised at how useful it is.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Sep 14, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Not many patents get implemented in real products.


And very few products get implemented without real patents ...


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Sep 14, 2019)

edoorn said:


> I am a pro and having IS on my 24-70 EF would have been a very good thing to have for event work. Even at 3200 you sometimes just hit a limit with shutter speed. Of course, it's no good for action but very good for instance scene setting shots, overviews, etc.



We used a friend's A7R iii with IBIS hand held in the redwoods. It was but-ugly useless for a crisp sharp scenery photo. My friend quickly replied "better get myself a tripod". On the other hand, there's a review or two for the new Fuji GFX 50 or 100 showing that its IBIS seem much more effective hand held.

It may boil down to the particular IBIS design.

Personally, I don't really need it. If the IBIS only adds $100 or $200, sure, I'll take it. If it adds $400 or more, maybe offer two models, one with and one without.


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## kirbic (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


We'll need all the help we can get at 83 MPx 8-o


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## Ozarker (Sep 14, 2019)

mjg79 said:


> As I understand it there are many detailed patents that never get produced so I think we have to wait and see.
> 
> I like IBIS and wish Canon had it. To have IBIS with a 1.2 or 1.4 lens is fun. However I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't a priority for Canon.
> 
> ...


I beg to differ.
1. I would consider all the Super "L" lenses (f/2 and faster) to be key pro lenses. f/1.2 is not about "bragging rights". Maybe it is for you, but my mama taught me to not be a braggart. While I am not a pro, I relish the benefit of IBIS for these lenses, which do not have IS. (Super "L". Remember, you heard it from me first.  )

2. Advanced amateurs are a far larger market than professionals who make a living at photography. I believe we are a huge priority for Canon. Canon would die on the vine without us. So would every single other manufacturer.

3. I use an f/1.2 lens... where lighting is controlled with flash and also not because it isn't allowed in some places... including weddings in some churches and museums.

4. Canon will have IBIS, and it will work very well... because that's just how Canon rolls.


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## SteveC (Sep 14, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> 4. Canon will have IBIS, and it will work very well... because that's just how Canon rolls.



The Canon rep I spoke to last weekend actually quoted the old wine commercial, "We'll sell no wine before its time."

They don't want to put something shoddy out, even at the price of having a number of people hopping up-and-down impatiently waiting for it. 

Two years after it's out, no one will remember the wait but they'll appreciate the result.


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## Pape (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


hand hold focus stacks!


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## masterpix (Sep 14, 2019)

Raise my hand, does anyone listen? 7DIII? that would be the best way to test this..


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## josephandrews222 (Sep 14, 2019)

If my 5DMkIII had IBIS...I would have already purchased the EF 11-24 lens. 

Part of the reason my M Canon bodies have seen so much use over the years is that the format's 'best' lens, the EF-M 11-22...is IS.

In my hands...over and over again... lens-based IS has been invaluable. I imagine that Canon, when they implement IBIS...that it will also prove to be an excellent tool.


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## Adelino (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> yeah ok.
> but night, city,and expensive camera equates to bang on the head to me!!


Move to a new city?


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## PeterT (Sep 14, 2019)

SteveC said:


> Two years after it's out, no one will remember the wait but they'll appreciate the result.



Yes, I will appreciate...if it will come to EOS M sooner than to Fuji X-Txx (or at least to Fuji X-Tx)


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## scyrene (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?



Look at it another way: instead of thinking, what new shots can I get with this that I couldn't before, consider it a means of making the current shots easier/more reliable. Like autofocus does - it's not that getting a shot in focus wasn't possible before, it's just much easier now. I take bursts of shots to account for various factors, and using longer than advised shutter speeds in low light, to take one example, would surely be easier with this, so instead of taking a big burst hoping one lacks motion blur, IBIS could mean you only need to take a couple to be sure, saving time and memory card space.


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## mb66energy (Sep 14, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Rumours were pointing to 90D but that didnt happen so maybe 1d mk3 or that rumoured high resolution R.



What about M5 mk ii or M50 mk ii? Smaller sensors have less mass and might be moved with a simpler setup: A linear factor of 1.6 grows to 1.6³= 4 in terms of volume and hence mass ... And the EOS M series isn't that critical in terms of bad press if the system doesn't work good enough for the most critical users.

But maybe you are right because if that system adds 400 $ / € to the camera price it will be swallowed by the prices of expensive FF cameras while 150 $ / € would be prohibitive for APS-C cameras especially a M50 mk ii.


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## crazyrunner33 (Sep 14, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> And very few products get implemented without real patents ...



Quite a few products are made with no parents. Parents offer the full road map on how the product works, some companies would rather not fully disclose the secret sauce if the product isn't easy to reverse engineer.


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## venusFivePhotoStudio (Sep 14, 2019)

Or shooting with 400mm F5.6 using iso 800 and 1/50 instead of iso 12800 and 1/800


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## Architect1776 (Sep 14, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Not many patents get implemented in real products.



And your point?


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## Architect1776 (Sep 14, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> I bet it will be great.



More than likely it will be superior to what is available anywhere else knowing how Canon operates. 
This article explains Canon very well and why they do not have to put out 3-4 iterations of crap with constant fixes to finally get what was advertised at the beginning like others usually do.








Canon is probably a different company to the one you think it is


Canon is probably a different company to the one you think it is




www.redsharknews.com


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## David Hull (Sep 14, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


Video mostly.


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## bgoyette (Sep 14, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> On the other hand, there's a review or two for the new Fuji GFX 50 or 100 showing that its IBIS seem much more effective hand held.


The GFX 50 doesn't have IBIS, but from experience, IBIS on the GFX100 is pretty much a miracle. When you get in to sensors 50mp and above, getting sharp images handheld, or even on a tripod, can be tricky. I've gotten decently consistent sharp images, handheld with the GFX100 down to 1/.5xSS, which really shouldn't be possible with a sensor of this pixel pitch. If canon is to arrive with an 83mp sensor next go-round, it will need a system even more accurate than the one on the GFX100. That combined with their new beachin' R glass will make a very competitive system, as long as the AF is accurate (BTW..good ibis helps with on sensor AF, so there's that). Oh, and the GFX100 IBIS on a tripod seems to be just fine, despite what you might have heard. I think this notion really applies more to video than stills.


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## David Hull (Sep 14, 2019)

mjg79 said:


> However I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't a priority for Canon.


I bet it isn't but it is being forced down their throats by the competition.


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## mb66energy (Sep 14, 2019)

venusFivePhotoStudio said:


> Or shooting with 400mm F5.6 using iso 800 and 1/50 instead of iso 12800 and 1/800


YES YES YES ... because this is a brilliant lens only lacking some stabilization without lugging a tripod around! (Maybe it is the uncritical f/5.6 + the 7-lens-construction which gives it good contrast).


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## Avenger 2.0 (Sep 14, 2019)

David Hull said:


> Video mostly.


Indeed. But will they include it in a photo camera or keep it for the cinema line?


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## BillB (Sep 14, 2019)

David Hull said:


> I bet it isn't but it is being forced down their throats by the competition.


IBIS can be a high Canon priority whether or not they are responding to competitive pressure. There real question is how Canon's answer will compare to the competition.


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## raistmaj (Sep 14, 2019)

Shooting primes without IS and no tripod without the need to bump your shutter speed to crazy values. With the new bodies with 30 or more mp (remember the rumors of 84mp) I CAN'T shoot a 135/105 at 1/250, 1/300, I still get some images movement, I needed to use 1/400 and if you use flash, that means HSS that outputs less light and is a bit trickier to work with than normal sync speeds. 

A lot of us need the IBIS thing that is missing on Cannon.


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## Go Wild (Sep 14, 2019)

Well....Ibis is great to have in video when you shoot video handheld. Is also a good ad of stabilization in handheld photo shots, but dont think is somekind of magic or you will forget your tripod.

From my perspective, i use IBIS in Sony a7R3 and the biggest advantage is to buy non stabilized lenses like the new ones from tamron (17-28 F2.8; 28-75 F2.8). So to me this is the big advantage, smaller and cheaper non stabilized lenses. 
As a user perspective i dont see too many advantages, but is a good thing to have. And this is my point of view because for steady shots on video I use a gimbal or a Tripod. IBIS dont substitute neither! 

Sony always hyped so much IBIS stabilization because of Vloggers. For me this are the ones that benefict the most of the IBIS. However....like i said before....its a great thing to have when you´re on a run shooting video and dont have a tripod, or if your lens is not stabilized. 

For photography it can help you making shots with slower shutterspeed, like you can grab a 1/5 shot without a tripod with a 15/16/17/24mm lens. More than that I find hard to see a good pic. 

In conclusion, it will be great to have on Canon Bodies, and i am curious to see how good it is and what the behaviour with the IS on lenses!
With or without IBIS just put the god Damn pro bodies outside!  

Finishing line: Canon was right on this one: IS makes the same thing, or maybe better in stabilization!


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## Ozarker (Sep 14, 2019)

masterpix said:


> Raise my hand, does anyone listen? 7DIII? that would be the best way to test this..


The 7D Mark III is dead (actually never concieved). Long live the 90D!


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## BillB (Sep 14, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The 7D Mark III is dead (actually never concieved). Long live the 90D!


Still think there is a chance for an R mount crop.


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## Rixy (Sep 14, 2019)

Do it


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## unfocused (Sep 14, 2019)

venusFivePhotoStudio said:


> Or shooting with 400mm F5.6 using iso 800 and 1/50 instead of iso 12800 and 1/800


What would you shoot at 1/50 with a 400mm lens?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 14, 2019)

The patent does provide a lot of detail, but just describes the idea of using a Halbach Array as a motor. The detail is there to differentiate this invention from similar motors used by other camera manufacturers. They all use a Voice Coil Motor, but in order to preclude patent infringement, it has to be sufficiently different.

It looks to be very simple to make, magnets and stamped frames with a rectangular flat coil.

I'd guess that this will be the basis of any stabilizer, but none of the electronic sensors or controls are part of the patent, just the drivers to move the sensor.


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## BillB (Sep 14, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> What about M5 mk ii or M50 mk ii? Smaller sensors have less mass and might be moved with a simpler setup: A linear factor of 1.6 grows to 1.6³= 4 in terms of volume and hence mass ... And the EOS M series isn't that critical in terms of bad press if the system doesn't work good enough for the most critical users.
> 
> But maybe you are right because if that system adds 400 $ / € to the camera price it will be swallowed by the prices of expensive FF cameras while 150 $ / € would be prohibitive for APS-C cameras especially a M50 mk ii.


At this point, it's hard for to imagine the high res FF mirrorless camera without IBIS.


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## unfocused (Sep 14, 2019)

scyrene said:


> ...so instead of taking a big burst hoping one lacks motion blur, IBIS could mean you only need to take a couple to be sure, saving time and memory card space.



How does any kind of image stabilization prevent motion blur?


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## privatebydesign (Sep 14, 2019)

unfocused said:


> What would you shoot at 1/50 with a 400mm lens?


To keep iso down. Having said that in 'normal' shooting even crop. camera iso performance rarely pushes iso to unusable levels in my personal experience.


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## canonnews (Sep 14, 2019)

mjg79 said:


> As I understand it there are many detailed patents that never get produced so I think we have to wait and see.



To be fair, Canon's done more IBIS patents than I care to count. There's a lot that I read and skip, simply because I can't figure out what the freaking patent is about enough to write it up in plain english. Same goes with sensor patents but that's alot more than IBIS patents about (50-75% of them i skip). I have 10 patents collected under IBIS of this nature, and there's probably 5 or so that I didn't' publish.

Someone emailed me yesterday about another IBIS patent, I had it partially written up but thought it sounded dumb, so didn't publish. after I got the email, I went .. meh what the heck and published it but left the date post-dated so hardly anyone would see it 









Canon Patent Application: IBIS + IS stablization


In this latest IBIS (In body image stabilization) and IS (lens based stabilization) patent application, Canon details methods to improve the accuracy of the IBIS + IS stabilization. While I know some will want to see IBIS on your favorite DSLR, most of these patents discuss high speed...



www.canonnews.com





In a way I am jealous of Keith of NL, because he just does a one-sentence summary and done 

So while sure, a patent here or there maybe for no great reason, but an entire collection of patents, no, I don't think Canon would spend that kind of R&D, legal and actual costs if they weren't going to use it.


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## David Hull (Sep 14, 2019)

BillB said:


> IBIS can be a high Canon priority whether or not they are responding to competitive pressure. There real question is how Canon's answer will compare to the competition.


I expect it will be pretty good. Canion has had a lot of time to work on it and the competitive products have been out there for a while. They have the advantage of having seen all the other offerings, fiddled with them, taken them apart and learned their weakness and all. Sometimes it is good to come from behind.


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## unfocused (Sep 14, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> To keep iso down. Having said that in 'normal' shooting even crop. camera iso performance rarely pushes iso to unusable levels in my personal experience.


I was thinking in terms of the subjects. 400 mm primarily used for wildlife, birds and sports. I suppose for a large slow moving mammal at rest or a bird sitting in a tree you might be able to shoot at 1/50 of a second, but that's not generally my experience.


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## Drcampbellicu (Sep 14, 2019)

Kinda sad to read these posts 
Since canon hasn’t had ibis I sense that some loyal fans have kinda been in denial and hostile to it

It’s important addition and I am excited to see canon implement it. Canon should frankly simplify lenses and focus on ibis. It’s a more efficient model as it pertains to weight, costs and need. Non stabilized lenses will also benefit.

Now if they could just hurry on the high speed R or whatever they’re gonna call it then I would be happy


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## slclick (Sep 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> What would you shoot at 1/50 with a 400mm lens?


Macro for the shy shooter (voyeurism?)


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## privatebydesign (Sep 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I was thinking in terms of the subjects. 400 mm primarily used for wildlife, birds and sports. I suppose for a large slow moving mammal at rest or a bird sitting in a tree you might be able to shoot at 1/50 of a second, but that's not generally my experience.


Ah of course there are always exceptions.

My "slow moving mammal"

300mm f2.8IS with a 1.3 crop factor (so effective 390mm) at 1/80 sec f 2.8 pushing the iso as far as it would go back in the day to print a decent size...

I used to cover this three day festival each year so used the settings a lot.


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## 20Dave (Sep 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I was thinking in terms of the subjects. 400 mm primarily used for wildlife, birds and sports. I suppose for a large slow moving mammal at rest or a bird sitting in a tree you might be able to shoot at 1/50 of a second, but that's not generally my experience.


It can be relatively dark in the canopy of the woods when going birding, even on a sunny day. I'm not catching warblers in flight in this scenario, they are always in trees, bushes, etc. So in this (relatively common) scenario, getting my 400mm down to 1/50 of a second would be awesome for me. Even if I had the 100-400 with IS, I'm guessing that I would still welcome the IBIS.

I would guess that it would be much less useful for action sports or BIF photos, but I don't have experience there.


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## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> What would you shoot at 1/50 with a 400mm lens?


As of late, I have shot a model when using a 6 stop ND filter at 1/60 sec at f/1.2, so I guess there are kinds of different cases when IBIS would come in very handy. I nailed some of those and didn't some of the others. The filter was necessary for the situation.... plus, until a couple of days ago I did not own a 3 stop in that size.  My shaky hands could use IBIS. It works very well on my Olympus, but I wouldn't use that camera on a shoot. I'm not saying IBIS is one size fits all, but for shorter focal lengths and slow shutter speeds with no lens IS, it is very nice. I never found it worked very well on M4/3 at long (400mm) focal lengths.


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## Canfan (Sep 15, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?



How about high megapixel sensor?
Like the rumored 83 MP sensor?
Many have complained about the difficulty they face getting a sharp image as these sensors tend to be less forgiving.

You’ll be amazed how having this extra buffer may improve or change your style or open up new opportunities for you.


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## masterpix (Sep 15, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The 7D Mark III is dead (actually never concieved). Long live the 90D!


Sorry to say but the 90D is almost identical to the 7DII, beside the 32.5MP sensor and the less rigid body (and two memory cards slots) there is no significant differnce.


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## masterpix (Sep 15, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


There are many ways it can help you, for example:

You are taking a wild life pictures, and those animals, as usual, do no cooperate with you and tend to move, so you like to have a wide field of view while still ahve a fast speed and not as high ISO (for the noise it brings) so instead of using speed 1/1000 which force you to the f:3.5 you now can do that same with.. lest see.. 1/1000 at f:11? at the same ISO?

Another thing, you are going into a sport event, where speed is very intense, so uptil now, you have to use your lowest 5.6 to get those pictures at 1/400 or so, but they usualy are a bit smudge for you both move the camera to follow the players and they also move rather fast, now you so the same at 1/2000 and increase the f to 8.0. In these speeds you can also zoom narrower on the object for you know that their moves will be captured crisply on a more "closed frame".

Lets say I am in a wedding and like to cpature as many people "in focus" for the family pictures, using 1/125 as the favorit speed, I can now use f:16 or even more which will capture both couple and the aunt they forgot her name long ago, but iwll be pissed as hell if her hair style won't be in focus!

just some ideas to show the benefits.


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## slclick (Sep 15, 2019)

masterpix said:


> Sorry to say but the D90 is almost identical to the 7DII, beside the 32.5MP sensor and the less rigid body (and two memory cards slots) there is no significant differnce.


11 AF points!





__





Nikon | Imaging Products | Nikon D90


Nikon | Imaging Products | Digital SLR Cameras




imaging.nikon.com


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## deleteme (Sep 15, 2019)

I think this thread is missing the "Canon is *******" comment.


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## deleteme (Sep 15, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


Very helpful when using the affordable but excellent f4 lenses.
When I used film, I often shot indoors with a 35 f2 and 400 film. These days I use a 24-105 or a 16-35 f4 and often find myself at 1600 ISO and well above.
I was on a job the other day that needed 12,800 and a lot at 10,000 and I would have welcomed even a 2 stop advantage.


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## bhf3737 (Sep 15, 2019)

venusFivePhotoStudio said:


> Or shooting with 400mm F5.6 using iso 800 and 1/50 instead of iso 12800 and 1/800


If the scene requires iso 12800 and 1/800 (e.g. fast moving objects in less than ideal light), for proper exposure, there it is.
IBIS can compensate for shaking hand. It does not magically compensate for light hitting the sensor.


----------



## Otara (Sep 15, 2019)

masterpix said:


> Sorry to say but the 90D is almost identical to the 7DII, beside the 32.5MP sensor and the less rigid body (and two memory cards slots) there is no significant differnce.


 
Less AF options too.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

masterpix said:


> Sorry to say but the 90D is almost identical to the 7DII, beside the 32.5MP sensor and the less rigid body (and two memory cards slots) there is no significant differnce.


So what? Yeah, the sensor is irrelevant.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 15, 2019)

masterpix said:


> There are many ways it can help you, for example:
> 
> You are taking a wild life pictures, and those animals, as usual, do no cooperate with you and tend to move, so you like to have a wide field of view while still ahve a fast speed and not as high ISO (for the noise it brings) so instead of using speed 1/1000 which force you to the f:3.5 you now can do that same with.. lest see.. 1/1000 at f:11? at the same ISO?
> 
> ...


I'm hoping you are being sarcastic and I just missed that. Otherwise, it is clear from your examples that you have absolutely no idea how image stabilization works.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


If you can't figure that out, there is no PHD who can help you. Save your tuition money.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Sep 15, 2019)

I wonder if there's any prospective IBIS that can tilt the sensor. It'd be a killer feature for landscapes, citycsapes and architecture.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I wonder if there's any prospective IBIS that can tilt the sensor. It'd be a killer feature for landscapes, citycsapes and architecture.


It doesn't move that much.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Sep 15, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> It doesn't move that much.


 I think it has a lot of room for movements parallel to the focal plane, but not sure if there's any patent that allows tilting.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I think it has a lot of room for movements parallel to the focal plane, but not sure if there's any patent that allows tilting.


I don't think any patent would allow or disallow tilting. Patents are not rules or regulations. My main question would be cost. I am breaking my neck to afford this system. IBIS would make me even more interested, but glass first.  I'm 56 years old. I would imagine this to be the last system I'd buy into short of a lottery win.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Sep 15, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I don't think any patent would allow or disallow tilting.



This particular one doesn't, as far as I can see (fig. 20g, 20f on the top show movements along axis but not any rotation).



CanonFanBoy said:


> Patents are not rules or regulations. My main question would be cost. I am breaking my neck to afford this system. IBIS would make me even more interested, but glass first.  I'm 56 years old. I would imagine this to be the last system I'd buy into short of a lottery win.



I'm just curious if there was any sign of sensor tilt development, not that I can tell Canon to include it in a future camera. It'd prefer to have a sensor tilt rather than IBIS, although IBIS alone would be really really nice.


----------



## masterpix (Sep 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I'm hoping you are being sarcastic and I just missed that. Otherwise, it is clear from your examples that you have absolutely no idea how image stabilization works.


The whole idea of image stabilization is to allow you better hand held option (decrease hand help vibrations), I think I missed saying that in the begining


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Sep 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> What would you shoot at 1/50 with a 400mm lens?


Perched birds, badgers emerging from their setts, low light sunset shots in Africa.. loads of situations!


----------



## Proscribo (Sep 15, 2019)

mjg79 said:


> Having said all that most tests I've seen do seem to suggest that in lens IS is superior. Nikons F-mount 24-70 VR for example stabilises better than their new Z mount 24-70 relying on IBIS. Of course some are now combining the two and apparently that brings great benefits but we will have to see how it pans out.


It's not black and white. For fast primes for example IBIS is far superior for the simple reason that lens stabilization is often too difficult to make (and it is always a slight compromise in terms of IQ). Up to around 100-200mm I'd say the best IBIS systems are as good, or better given they have more degrees of freedom, as lens IS and after that lens stabilization is simply superior. That said I do not have extensive experience with FF cameras with IBIS so it could very well be the crossover point comes at a shorter focal length.



unfocused said:


> I was thinking in terms of the subjects. 400 mm *primarily* used for wildlife, birds and sports. I suppose for a large slow moving mammal at rest or a bird sitting in a tree you might be able to shoot at 1/50 of a second, but that's not generally my experience.


But not only. You can shoot landscapes with a 400mm if you want for example, those don't usually move much.


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## Joules (Sep 15, 2019)

masterpix said:


> The whole idea of image stabilization is to allow you better hand held option (decrease hand help vibrations), I think I missed saying that in the begining


That's true. But I think what unfocused was referring to were your statements such as this:



masterpix said:


> instead of using speed 1/1000 which force you to the f:3.5 you now can do that same with.. lest see.. 1/1000 at f:11? at the same ISO?


It seems like you were saying that stabilization allows you to use a narrower aperture while keeping all other aspects of the image the same. But that is of course not the case, since stabilization has no effect on aperture, so in your example you would just gather less signal, and therefore get a darker picture with more noise.

Also you gave examples that might not benefit from stabilization. Animals and sports players tend to move a lot, therefore you have to keep to short shutter speeds anyway in order to avoid motion blur caused by the subjects movement.


----------



## fentiger (Sep 15, 2019)

i can understand the use of ibis in video use, 
last week i done some video hand held, the video quality was very good, but camera stability was poor. wished i used a tripod, but its not always practical to lug around too much equipment. 
the camera was a 1DX2 with 24-70 mk2. even though i think i was stable, clearly i was not.


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 15, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> [..]
> Personally, I don't really need it. If the IBIS only adds $100 or $200, sure, I'll take it. If it adds $400 or more, maybe offer two models, one with and one without.



And there's the rub, I don't think Canon will release a version without IBIS of the same camera. Maybe a version with a different AA filter like they did with the 5Ds, but not an IBIS-less version.
In that scenario, how do you estimate how much the IBIS adds? The 5DsR was €3700 on launch here. Will the Rs follow the R pattern of "Similar DSLR minus €700" or the RF lens pattern of "Inflation corrected price of predecessor, maybe a bit more"?


----------



## lglass12189 (Sep 15, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Night cityscapes without a tripod, for example.


WOW that's a big portion of the photography done


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Sep 15, 2019)

It's a misconception that IBIS doesn't help when you shoot moving subjects. Hand shake just adds to the motion blur from moving subjects and increases the minimal acceptable shutter speed. If you're way above this limit, IBIS doesn't matter, but the slower your exposure gets, the more IBIS helps.


----------



## Kit. (Sep 15, 2019)

lglass12189 said:


> WOW that's a big portion of the photography done


Actually, yes. Practically every "slow sync" flash use, and more.

Besides, does the word "example" mean nothing to you?


----------



## croviking (Sep 15, 2019)

fentiger said:


> yeah ok.
> but night, city,and expensive camera equates to bang on the head to me!!


It's easier to run with just a camera than camera + tripod
On the flip side, tripod could be a good defense weapon... Hmmm... Decisions decisions


----------



## scyrene (Sep 15, 2019)

unfocused said:


> How does any kind of image stabilization prevent motion blur?



My apologies for using the incorrect term. Blur due to the motion of the camera. What do we call that? Shake?


----------



## scyrene (Sep 15, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> My main question would be cost. I am breaking my neck to afford this system. IBIS would make me even more interested, but glass first.



Of course, the presence or absence of IBIS might affect which lenses you pick. I found the version 1 24-105L (which has IS but rated to fewer stops than the newer iterations) definitely less reliable on the 5Ds than lenses with 4+ stop IS (pixel peeping). An IBIS camera might allow one to keep older lenses with less good IS (or none at all) for longer, rather than having to upgrade. A niche issue, but possibly relevant to some.


----------



## BillB (Sep 15, 2019)

Proscribo said:


> You can shoot landscapes with a 400mm if you want for example, those don't usually move much.


That can depend on how hard the wind is blowing


----------



## Pape (Sep 15, 2019)

croviking said:


> It's easier to run with just a camera than camera + tripod
> On the flip side, tripod could be a good defense weapon... Hmmm... Decisions decisions


i wonder why its ok go around with aluminium monopod and camera but not ok go around with baseball bat 
btw anyone selling bayonets with camera screw so could have bear spear too


----------



## masterpix (Sep 15, 2019)

Joules said:


> That's true. But I think what unfocused was referring to were your statements such as this:
> 
> 
> It seems like you were saying that stabilization allows you to use a narrower aperture while keeping all other aspects of the image the same. But that is of course not the case, since stabilization has no effect on aperture, so in your example you would just gather less signal, and therefore get a darker picture with more noise.
> ...


Oh.. now I see, I mean to write 1/100 not 1/1000 for we all know that the sensor needs to get the same amount of light in the end, the image stabilizer allows the use of slower shutter speeds wihtout the need to set to higher ISO (and by that get less noise into the iamge).


----------



## BeenThere (Sep 15, 2019)

Pape said:


> i wonder why its ok go around with aluminium monopod and camera but not ok go around with baseball bat
> btw anyone selling bayonets with camera screw so could have bear spear too


Intent. Are you peeling potatoes or defending yourself.


----------



## Pape (Sep 15, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> Intent. Are you peeling potatoes or defending yourself.


manfrotto quick lock compatible maasai spear head could be good 
They used to kill bears with spear when guns were more unreliable . 2meter long monopod looks good to me on that purpose


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

scyrene said:


> Look at it another way: instead of thinking, what new shots can I get with this that I couldn't before, consider it a means of making the current shots easier/more reliable. Like autofocus does - it's not that getting a shot in focus wasn't possible before, it's just much easier now. I take bursts of shots to account for various factors, and using longer than advised shutter speeds in low light, to take one example, would surely be easier with this, so instead of taking a big burst hoping one lacks motion blur, IBIS could mean you only need to take a couple to be sure, saving time and memory card space.


That's a very smart and well thought out reply, Scyrene. Perfect.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

bgoyette said:


> ... beachin' R glass.


   I see what you did there. 1970's Southern California slang spelled differently by any chance? Brings back great memories.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 15, 2019)

David Hull said:


> I bet it isn't but it is being forced down their throats by the competition.


Pulease! When you're #1 there isn't a reason to rush to market with a sub-standard rushed into production feature... unlike the stragglers.


----------



## ashmadux (Sep 15, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?



Put it like this..._IT HELPS._

To have a debate on whether ibis is needed is pure ignorance or 'head in the sand' mode. 

All the other manufacturers seem to have it working fine.


----------



## ashmadux (Sep 15, 2019)

SteveC said:


> The Canon rep I spoke to last weekend actually quoted the old wine commercial, "We'll sell no wine before its time."
> 
> They don't want to put something shoddy out, even at the price of having a number of people hopping up-and-down impatiently waiting for it.
> 
> Two years after it's out, no one will remember the wait but they'll appreciate the result.




Like the 6d2 sensor? 

This is canon...far more yawns then yays. They take_ forever_ because thats just what they do..nothign more


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 16, 2019)

josephandrews222 said:


> If my 5DMkIII had IBIS...I would have already purchased the EF 11-24 lens.
> 
> Part of the reason my M Canon bodies have seen so much use over the years is that the format's 'best' lens, the EF-M 11-22...is IS.
> 
> In my hands...over and over again... lens-based IS has been invaluable. I imagine that Canon, when they implement IBIS...that it will also prove to be an excellent tool.


I don't understand that comment.

The EF-M is an equivalent 18-35 F/4– 5.6, put the EF 16-35 f4IS on your 5D MkIII and you get over one stop of ISO performance at 18mm and over two stops at 35mm. Also your enlargement ratio is 50% less so you can use a slower shutter speed for the same visible shake.

The EF11-24 is not the EF-M 11-22 equivalent, the EF 16-35 f4 IS is, and that has IS!


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 16, 2019)

ashmadux said:


> Put it like this..._IT HELPS._
> 
> To have a debate on whether ibis is needed is pure ignorance or 'head in the sand' mode.
> 
> All the other manufacturers seem to have it working fine.


Well not necessarily for everybody as well as some. For instance the lens IS takes a half a second (approx) to become effective, if you are used to fully pressing the shutter button within the half second window your particular experience of lens IS might be that it is worse than no IS. I'm sure the IBIS will have similar technical capabilities that some subsets of shooters will fall into that simply dont get on with it.

In theory the majority of photographers will get an advantage from IBIS most of the time, I don't believe all photographers will always see benefits from using it.


----------



## josephandrews222 (Sep 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't understand that comment.
> 
> The EF-M is an equivalent 18-35 F/4– 5.6, put the EF 16-35 f4IS on your 5D MkIII and you get over one stop of ISO performance at 18mm and over two stops at 35mm. Also your enlargement ratio is 50% less so you can use a slower shutter speed for the same visible shake.
> 
> The EF11-24 is not the EF-M 11-22 equivalent, the EF 16-35 f4 IS is, and that has IS!



Very good post that makes very good points. Allow me to clarify.

I have found very few 11-22 opportunities, when paired to the M6 (or even the M10)...where a stop or two makes the difference between a keeper and a throwaway. Perhaps my standards aren't as high as many who post here (no snark intended)--but I've managed quite nicely with whatever M I have at the time, in terms of family, vacation and travel pictures...with the 11-22 as the lens of choice. But make no mistake: the IS of the EF-M 11-22 is critical for me.

When I need low-light/IS EF-M capabilities, I try to manage with the EF-M 22mm...but for reasons you've pointed to the M6/EF-M 22 combination, while good (and stealthy...for concerts etc)...is not optimal--and of course the EF-M 22 is not image-stabilized.

For 'important' low-light situations (where I'm willing to have much larger/heavier gear on hand), I've had real good luck with the 5D MkIII/EF 35mm 2.0IS rig, although I do wish the lens was wider at times.

The 11-24 EF is just so wide...it is one of the only lenses that I would consider renting. Using it offers access to images that can't be acquired any other way--but for my usage (lots of low-light situations)...the IS feature would be extremely useful.

To add what may be obvious to some, the EF-R 15-35 2.8 IS looks very appealing!

I've yet to pull the trigger on the R body, though...still waiting. I wonder how many of us (the waiters) are out there?!

Sorry for a rambling post.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 16, 2019)

canonnews said:


> To be fair, Canon's done more IBIS patents than I care to count. There's a lot that I read and skip, simply because I can't figure out what the freaking patent is about enough to write it up in plain english. Same goes with sensor patents but that's alot more than IBIS patents about (50-75% of them i skip). I have 10 patents collected under IBIS of this nature, and there's probably 5 or so that I didn't' publish.
> 
> Someone emailed me yesterday about another IBIS patent, I had it partially written up but thought it sounded dumb, so didn't publish. after I got the email, I went .. meh what the heck and published it but left the date post-dated so hardly anyone would see it
> 
> ...


Yes, there are several patents. This one has the advantage that its very cheap and easy to make. However, they just say that the control electronics are widely known and don't include anything. I'd expect it to add $5 -15 to the manufacturing price with electronics. I'm sure Canon wants the lowest possible cost, they wring out every penny.


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## Ozarker (Sep 16, 2019)

lglass12189 said:


> WOW that's a big portion of the photography done


I shutter to think of doing that.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 16, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't understand that comment.
> 
> The EF-M is an equivalent 18-35 F/4– 5.6, put the EF 16-35 f4IS on your 5D MkIII and you get over one stop of ISO performance at 18mm and over two stops at 35mm. Also your enlargement ratio is 50% less so you can use a slower shutter speed for the same visible shake.
> 
> The EF11-24 is not the EF-M 11-22 equivalent, the EF 16-35 f4 IS is, and that has IS!


This is something that confused and surprised me when I bought my first EF-s camera years ago. I naively assumed the focal length label on the EF-s lens accounted for the crop. Boy was I wrong. I'd bet a lot of people think this.


----------



## GoldWing (Sep 16, 2019)

fentiger said:


> please educate me, under what circumstances would 5-6 stops IBIS be useful ?


Sports where you want to keep your ISO low and possible 2.8 shots for beautiful crushed backgrounds while hand jding lets say a 2.8 300mmII as an example.


----------



## SteveC (Sep 16, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I shutter to think of doing that.



Sometimes people just "click" on here.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 16, 2019)

mjg79 said:


> As I understand it there are many detailed patents that never get produced so I think we have to wait and see.
> 
> I like IBIS and wish Canon had it. To have IBIS with a 1.2 or 1.4 lens is fun. However I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't a priority for Canon.
> 
> ...


damn i guess videographers dont exist in the canonrumors universe.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 16, 2019)

mjg79 said:


> Yes that I can well understand. The new RF 24-70 2.8L will have IS. Also Nikon's F mount 24-70 has VR and Tamron's and Sigma's 24-70 for SLR mounts are stabilised.
> 
> I wonder if Canon will bring out an EF 24-70 2.8 L with IS? I would buy it but I suspect they would prefer people buy the RF lens and therefore a new camera so who knows.


why would they. they seemed to give EF users the shaft. seems like all the problem lenses or ones we waited for went straight to RF mount.


----------



## cayenne (Sep 16, 2019)

croviking said:


> It's easier to run with just a camera than camera + tripod
> On the flip side, tripod could be a good defense weapon... Hmmm... Decisions decisions



Nah...that's what concealed carry is for....


----------



## nchoh (Sep 16, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The patent does provide a lot of detail, but just describes the idea of using a Halbach Array as a motor. The detail is there to differentiate this invention from similar motors used by other camera manufacturers. They all use a Voice Coil Motor, but in order to preclude patent infringement, it has to be sufficiently different.
> 
> It looks to be very simple to make, magnets and stamped frames with a rectangular flat coil.
> 
> I'd guess that this will be the basis of any stabilizer, but none of the electronic sensors or controls are part of the patent, just the drivers to move the sensor.



It looks simple to make, but if you take into consideration the tolerances that need to be achieved, I don't think you can just rely on stamped frames.


----------



## David Hull (Sep 16, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Pulease! When you're #1 there isn't a reason to rush to market with a sub-standard rushed into production feature... unlike the stragglers.


The point was, that they don't really need IBIS, they have a perfectly workable solution as it is. The only thing that comes with IBIS that doesn't exist in their lens based solutions is the ability to undo rotation which the lens solutions cannot do. However, it seems to have become a feature you have to have whether you need it or not. Maybe they can somehow combine the two to get more performance, maybe not. It will be interesting to see how they market the feature if they actually do put it in.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 16, 2019)

David Hull said:


> The point was, that they don't really need IBIS, they have a perfectly workable solution as it is. The only thing that comes with IBIS that doesn't exist in their lens based solutions is the ability to undo rotation which the lens solutions cannot do. However, it seems to have become a feature you have to have whether you need it or not. Maybe they can somehow combine the two to get more performance, maybe not. It will be interesting to see how they market the feature if they actually do put it in.


Yes, but let us not forget that many Canon lenses do not have IS, especially at the high end (not counting the great whites). At the present RF mount high end, there is no IS. As long as shutter speed can be kept high enough, then no problem. Otherwise, one is SOL. On a high mega pixel RF mount camera of 80+, I would have to have IBIS before deciding to buy. I don't believe that camera will be EF mount. I think that is where we will see it on Canon (R series)... eventually. There are already manufacturers combining lens IS and IBIS. Tripods and mono pods are not an option in many cases. 

Side note: Whether one believes he/she has to have a feature is personal and not for us to decide whether or not their need is valid or not. It may not be for ourselves, but that doesn't mean it is not for them.


----------



## mak9000 (Sep 16, 2019)

Even Ken Wheeler is bigging this patent up!


----------



## fox40phil (Sep 16, 2019)

Please with options like the Pentax K1! For astrophotography! <3


----------



## michoristo (Sep 16, 2019)

The unbiased Canon EOS R disassembly and teardown


The Canon EOS R was cause for some internal controversy here at Kolari Vision. After all, we’re in the middle of The Great Mirrorless Camera War. Tensions are bound to rise, turning brother against brother, camera tech against camera tech, and photographer against photographer. Despite this, I...




www.diyphotography.net





Will be interesting to see how it fits into a EOS R body, or if they have to make it that much bigger.


----------



## gmon750 (Sep 17, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Not many patents get implemented in real products.


Are you being serious? Just about every component in every camera is covered by some kind of patent. What are you even talking about?


----------



## SteveC (Sep 17, 2019)

gmon750 said:


> Are you being serious? Just about every component in every camera is covered by some kind of patent. What are you even talking about?



He could be correct if "not many" means "not a large percentage of"


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## Ozarker (Sep 17, 2019)

SteveC said:


> He could be correct if "not many" means "not a large percentage of"


Some are simply filed to block an idea from being used by another company, I think.


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## Antono Refa (Sep 18, 2019)

Why does the IBIS unit have the option to move the sensor along the optical axis?

As far as I understand, the lens focuses the light (makes the light rays converge) to a certain distance from the flange, so if the sensor is moved closer or farther away from it, the whole image would be out of focus.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 18, 2019)

nchoh said:


> It looks simple to make, but if you take into consideration the tolerances that need to be achieved, I don't think you can just rely on stamped frames.


Why, they don't do anything but let the magnets slide. The patent does not include position feedback sensors. It does state that the metal pieces are sheet metal, (non magnetic stainless). Stamped parts can have very tight tolerances, I've worked with suppliers to have parts stamped to amazing tolerances. Low tolerances are cheaper, but you can get what you need.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 18, 2019)

Antono Refa said:


> Why does the IBIS unit have the option to move the sensor along the optical axis?
> 
> As far as I understand, the lens focuses the light (makes the light rays converge) to a certain distance from the flange, so if the sensor is moved closer or farther away from it, the whole image would be out of focus.


Or in focus if the photographer is hand holding a camera and sways forward or backwards, or if the subject is moving.

However, you can let the lens autofocus compensate for that, so little need for is on the


GoldWing said:


> Sports where you want to keep your ISO low and possible 2.8 shots for beautiful crushed backgrounds while hand jding lets say a 2.8 300mmII as an example.



IBIS and IS do not stabilize moving subjects as in sports. It corrects for movement of the camera with a stationary or slightly moving subject, but not for sports. There are limited cases where say one axis of stabilization while panning can be used for race cars if they are just moving in one axis.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 18, 2019)

Antono Refa said:


> Why does the IBIS unit have the option to move the sensor along the optical axis?
> 
> As far as I understand, the lens focuses the light (makes the light rays converge) to a certain distance from the flange, so if the sensor is moved closer or farther away from it, the whole image would be out of focus.


I did not see a option to move along the optical axis. Just X, Y, and rotation. No Z axis.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 18, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Some are simply filed to block an idea from being used by another company, I think.



Patents are used to protect a inventions. You cannot patent a idea.

You pay inventors to develop their idea into a workable product, build models, and write a detailed description of how it works and what features make it unique. 

In my company, I was the person who reviewed inventions in my engineering field and made monthly presentations to the patent committee. Its very expensive to proceed with a patent, so I had to include answers to several questions.

1. Is the invention practical? That is, would it really be useful to anyone.

2. Is the invention valuable to the company?

3. Will the company use it now or in the future.

And, I had options for recommendations.

1. Approve and proceed with development and submission of the patent ($$$$).

2. Send back to the inventor for further development, it sounds useful but is not complete.

3. Reject with reason, it could be a workable patent that the company would not benefit from, in which case, I could and often did recommend giving full rights to the inventor so he owned the invention.

I remember one patent that was software so I was not involved, it came with a company we merged with. It was a windowing method for dealing with Y2K in existing software that let you use a date that had just 2 digits (54 for 1954). The patent was deemed as not valuable to the company, so rights were given to the inventor. It turned out to be very valuable and was widely used.



CNN - Government to review Y2K-fix patent - December 28, 1999



That was the year I retired, so I never followed up on the end result of the patent review.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 18, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Patents are used to protect a inventions. You cannot patent a idea.
> 
> You pay inventors to develop their idea into a workable product, build models, and write a detailed description of how it works and what features make it unique.
> 
> ...


I know I said "idea", but more in a generic sense. What I really meant is a particular design... such as an aparatus or lens formula. That said, I could still be very wrong. I have never patented anything, but have owned patent leather shoes.


----------



## Antono Refa (Sep 18, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Or in focus if the photographer is hand holding a camera and sways forward or backwards, or if the subject is moving.



If the camera (including lens & sensor) move along the optical axis, the lens would be focused on something closer / farther. Moving the sensor would take the whole image out of focus, similar to the lens mount ring being misaligned.

One could let the lens autofocus compensate for that, but the framing & perspective would change slightly. A PowerShot, which has powered zoom, could compensate, but a MILC / DSLR could not.


----------



## Joules (Sep 18, 2019)

Antono Refa said:


> if the sensor is moved closer or farther away from it, the whole image would be out of focus.


So it makes a lot of sense to compensate for the camera moving in that axis to avoid such blur. At least in applications were DoF is so shallow that it actually matters.


Antono Refa said:


> If the camera (including lens & sensor) move along the optical axis, the lens would be focused on something closer / farther. Moving the sensor would take the whole image out of focus, similar to the lens mount ring being misaligned.


Nope, moving the sensor back and forth just changes focus, essentially. It's how extension tubes work.

So if the sensor could move along the optical axis it could compensate for some small movements of the camera. I guess for applications with miniscule DoF or focus stacking this could be useful.


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## Ozarker (Sep 18, 2019)

IBIS works. A lot of needless hand wringing seems to be taking place in the forum. Coupled with lens IS, it works even better.


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