# Anyone else delaying lens purchases until we know more about mirrorless plans?



## RiceCanon (May 25, 2018)

Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.


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## ahsanford (May 25, 2018)

RiceCanon said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.



Interesting question. My instant gut answer was 'hell no', but then I thought about it a bit.

My answer is a 'qualified no' depending on your situation and what your goals with the new system are. Consider before anything else this assumption: *all EF glass surely will work on FF mirrorless on day one* (either natively or with an adaptor). That's a hammerlock certainty, IMHO.

_However_, there are some considerations that may affect your buying decisions:

[list type=decimal]
[*]If you are expressly getting into mirrorless to build a tiny rig+lens to carry around, you may want to wait if you are looking at a modestly quick wide or standard FL lens, e.g. a 35 f/2, a 28 2/8, a 50 f/1.8, etc. That's the sweet spot of where a thin mirrorless mount possibly offering it's own version of those lenses could lead to a very small aggregate size body + lens. If you bought the EF versions of those lenses, they still would work but the camera + lens would be ~ 1" bigger or so for the EF adaptor -- you may not care about that, but some folks do.


[*]If you are migrating from EF-S to full frame, _if Canon goes full EF mount instead of thin mount_, FF mirrorless could dramatically effect you using your existing lenses. (This would be just like moving from crop to FF and all your lenses are EF-S -- they won't mount on the new rig and you'll either have to sell them or just keep them for your crop SLR.) So if you are a crop shooter today and you want to move to FF mirrorless, I'd avoid buying any more EF-S glass until the mount decision is made and the specifics of the adaptor (if there is one) is announced.


[*]There is the odd possibility -- and I admit this is a worry-wart sort of leap -- that Canon makes some decisions with a thin mount that might empower new thin-mount lenses to do some neat stuff that EF lenses cannot. So while EF lenses will 100% work as they did before, some slick tech/tricks/tools on the body possibly might not be possible with older glass. This is mad speculation on my part, and I have no idea what that new functionality may be -- so I feel a lot stronger about points (1) and (2) than this.
[/list]

That said, if you're looking at a big/fast/long EF lens (f/2.8 zoom, f/1.2 or f/1.4 prime, something longer than 85mm, etc.) just go and buy it. The future FF mirrorless version of that lens may not happen for a long time, but even when it does, it will be just about as big.

- A


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## stevelee (May 25, 2018)

That's certainly not true for me. I have a G7X II, but I want an OVF on anything any bigger. Buying more lenses for my 6D2 is delayed only by my budget.


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## RiceCanon (May 25, 2018)

I have a 6D II and a sufficient collection of L glass but there's always that desire to upgrade to a better version of an existing lens or to acquire a new lens altogether. But there's a little voice I'm hearing lately that's telling me to hold my funds and keep the status quo for my dslr stable in hopes that Canon surprises us soon with fantastic full frame mirrorless options to start building around. I would love a smaller, lighter weight kit to travel with while staying in the Canon ecosystem. I just hope Canon shows their higher end mirrorless hand soon!


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## dickgrafixstop (May 25, 2018)

I don't know what Canon - or any other vendor - will do with mirrorless but regardless, I won't be making any
camera related purchase until after Photokina in September. New format, new bodies, new lenses - whatever -
can wait several months until this starts to shake out. I have some older gear that's due for replacement, but
it's worked well so far so why leap?


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## ahsanford (May 25, 2018)

RiceCanon said:


> I have a 6D II and a sufficient collection of L glass but there's always that desire to upgrade to a better version of an existing lens or to acquire a new lens altogether. But there's a little voice I'm hearing lately that's telling me to hold my funds and keep the status quo for my dslr stable in hopes that Canon surprises us soon with fantastic full frame mirrorless options to start building around. I would love a smaller, lighter weight kit to travel with while staying in the Canon ecosystem. I just hope Canon shows their higher end mirrorless hand soon!



Then listen to that voice and wait. I think you have your answer.

But keep in mind we may-to-likely just get something like a 6D2 mirrorless (with on-chip ADC + 4K) with a kit zoom and a cute little f/2.8 prime and that's it. "Higher end" (at least to someone who owns a collection of L glass today) likely isn't going to happen out of the gate*, so presuming a thin mount expect to be adapting constantly in the first few years of service unless you only plan to use this rig in an expressly tiny/travel context.

*Unlike EOS M, which has yet to give us anything resembling an L lens and took _four_ iterations to even get an integral viewfinder, I do expect Canon's first FF mirrorless body to have a red ringed _something_ kitted with it at time of launch.

- A


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## stevelee (May 25, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> *Unlike EOS M, which has yet to give us anything resembling an L lens and took _four_ iterations to even get an integral viewfinder, I do expect Canon's first FF mirrorless body to have a red ringed _something_ kitted with it at time of launch.



And if not, fingernail polish is fairly cheap.


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## dickgrafixstop (May 25, 2018)

It used to be that Canon could wait until Nikon made a move and then counter it. In the mirrorless market that
won't be so - only because both Canon and Nikon have failed to make any significant move into that market. Now the big dog there is Sony, and it already has a formidable lens lineup to suppport it (Having Zeiss in your corner never hurts). Canon will need to compete with a full lens line-up (unless they can do an adapter-less EF mount) and who cares what Nikon does?


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## 9VIII (May 25, 2018)

EF mount isn't becoming less valuable, and I have doubts that the EF-X mount (for lack of a better term) will be available in an affordable body for quite some time. If they're going Full Frame with high end specs it could be all $3,000+ for the first few years.
The existence (and good sales) of EF-M makes me doubt that Canon will ever sell an entry level EF-X body.


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## ahsanford (May 25, 2018)

dickgrafixstop said:


> It used to be that Canon could wait until Nikon made a move and then counter it. In the mirrorless market that
> won't be so - only because both Canon and Nikon have failed to make any significant move into that market. Now the big dog there is Sony, and it already has a formidable lens lineup to suppport it (Having Zeiss in your corner never hurts). Canon will need to compete with a full lens line-up (unless they can do an adapter-less EF mount) and who cares what Nikon does?



We continue to act like the possibility of a new mount has a dire impact for Canon's competitiveness, our need to buy new and sell old lenses, etc. That's not an issue. I honestly think you have it backwards above. Sony will need to be competing with Canon lens-wise. Canon will have at least 65* FF lenses ready to go the day this is announced. EF or adaptor, we presume they will all work with FF mirrorless right out of the gate.

(*that the current can buy now figure at B&H, I imagine the real number is considerably _higher_ than that given how many EF lenses are already out in the wild)

And of the two potential future extremes of what will happen in FF ILC...

1) Sony gets _amazing_ at service, ergonomics, reliability, accessories and steals a ton of pro marketshare from Canon. YAPODFC.

2) Canon finally puts out an effective and well-thought through FF mirrorless platform. After years of false dawns, fine print and underwhelming delivery of things (other than sensors and spec sheets), Sony folks try the new Canon platform and realize that they never should have left. Once Canon gets its FF mirrorless platform up and running (say 3 years in), it will scoop up a huge share of the A7 market.

...#2 is SO much more likely to pass than #1, IMHO.

- A


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## cpsico (May 25, 2018)

RiceCanon said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.


Not me, if canon changes the mount and flash system I will just buy sony at this point if I am in the market for a mirrorless camera


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## ken (May 25, 2018)

RiceCanon said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes?
> ...



Emphatically yes. Stopped buying lenses last year, when the 6D ii came out. I don't know if I will stay with Canon or not going forward. But my 6D still gets me by, so I can wait a bit longer to decide.

You didn't ask, but... My camera body wish list (and not implying this should be anyone else's list) is:
- Higher resolution than my 6D. 24MP or above, but prefer considerably lower than 50
- A body size similar to my 6D (but I could make do with slightly smaller, or slightly larger. I don't want 1DX size)
- At a minimum, tilt screen. Flip would be a bonus. 
- At least 6 fps 
- Fast focus with solid tracking. I've lived with crap focus for way too long. 
- Wysiwyg focus in the viewfinder (for macro, tilt-shift, and other reasons). EVF is fine with me.
- Truly silent shutter option (even if it sacrifices some frame rate)
- IBIS would be nice for future, lighter lenses
- It should be fun to shoot with. Sensible layout of buttons, sensible menu system.
- Solid video support, but secondary concern. (I'd probably shoot more video if the 6D video support was better)

I'm sure I'll have to give up something no matter which way I go. And yes... a mirrorless 6Dii is probably just the kind of thing I'd go for. 

I don't really want to switch to Sony (I hate the idea of transitioning to Sony's menu system, the bodies are still too small, Sony support was terrible for laptops so why would they be different with cameras, etc.). It may be a full year before we really see Canon's real direction. But I'll switch if Sony ends up closer to my overall needs than Canon's mirrorless direction. Maybe the A9 will become lower in price to be a sensible option by then. And I'd rent the A7Riii or A9 before switching, because too much of what is reported seems overhyped. (I own the a6000, so I've seen the disconnect between hype and reality.) 

So, for now, I rent the lenses I need that I don't already own. I had an indoor event to shoot last weekend and rented the 24‑70mm f/2.8L II. I really enjoyed shooting with it. I should own it. I WOULD own it (and the 100mm f/2.8L macro, the 85mm f/1.4L IS, ... I personally even enjoyed the week I spent with the 50mm 1.2L). But I don't want to keep investing in Canon glass until I know that's where I'll be for a long time to come. If I go Sony, most of the reviews indicate a serous downside to using adapters. So I have to believe I'd want to trade out to native Sony lenses. That's a serous bummer. If the Canon option requires an adapter for EF glass, I'll wait to see what compromises that entails. I may be selling glass either way. 

So... I wait a bit longer. Impatiently. Renting glass, not buying.


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## Deleted member 91053 (May 25, 2018)

No. No delays/hesitation here.

If Canon do come out with a mirrorless it will have to operate very well with my long lenses and reasonably well with my short lenses. It will also have to be strong enough to be manhandled with a 4.5 Kilo lens attached, have reasonably good battery life (certainly greater than my 7D2). Reasonable fps (6 +), moderate MP (26 or less?) and blistering AF with SuperTeles. Also a zero delay viewfinder that adjusts to differing at least as quick/quicker than my eye.

If it ticks all of the above then it might be interesting, if it fails on any one aspect then it will be of no use to me even if it were cheap.

Think I am going to be using mirror-slappers for the foreseeable..............


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## 9VIII (May 25, 2018)

Let’s not forget that Sony hasn’t actually convinced very many people to “switch brands”.
If Sony were to release statistics for lens sales, it would probably be abysmal.
Almost every comment or video on social media about people who “switch” rely heavily on adapted lenses. Canon’s user base is not shrinking, and in some ways it might be growing as people buy Canon glass for use on Sony bodies.

It’s inevitable that Canon will compete head to head with Sony in sensor tech eventually. The reality of the situation is Sony has a short window to leverage their camera bodies into a complete system as there is ZERO friction to slow down a migration back to people using Canon glass on Canon bodies.


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## Don Haines (May 26, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> dickgrafixstop said:
> 
> 
> > It used to be that Canon could wait until Nikon made a move and then counter it. In the mirrorless market that
> ...



+1

Also, why is it that Sigma and Tamron keep releasing lenses first in Canon Mount, then in Nikon Mount, and then promise that at some time in the future it will be in Sony Mount... and we never see it......


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## Durf (May 26, 2018)

Personally mirrorless cameras do not excite me one bit and I have not the slightest desire to even want one, I may be old school but all this mirrorless hype and sensationalizing kind of reminds me of the disco phenomenon.


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## stevelee (May 26, 2018)

Except disco used mirrors.


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## Otara (May 26, 2018)

I think Canon would rather keep selling what its already making rather than suddenly switching everything. If the Canon 70-200mm III and other larger lenses comes out as predicted, I think thats a reasonable confirmation that EF has nothing to worry about.


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## ahsanford (May 26, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Also, why is it that Sigma and Tamron keep releasing lenses first in Canon Mount, then in Nikon Mount, and then promise that at some time in the future it will be in Sony Mount... and we never see it......



Sigma is doing it for Sony now, FYI:

https://petapixel.com/2018/02/27/sigma-unveils-first-9-art-lenses-sony-e-mount/

Not all are out of pre-order yet (I see 3-4 available at B&H), but surely they are coming.

- A


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## Don Haines (May 26, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Also, why is it that Sigma and Tamron keep releasing lenses first in Canon Mount, then in Nikon Mount, and then promise that at some time in the future it will be in Sony Mount... and we never see it......
> ...



not too bad.... only a year or so behind....


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## jd7 (May 26, 2018)

RiceCanon said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.



Not me. I'm yet to get excited about mirrorless. Apart from anything else, I much prefer OVF to EVF. If I got a mirrorless camera at this point, it would be specifically to have something small and light, so I'd look at APS-C (eg Canon M system or perhaps Fuji) or m4/3. For a full-frame camera, I don't see much size/weight saving once you factor in lenses, so while I will keep an open mind and see what comes out, I'm not expecting to jump on the full-frame mirrorless bandwagon at least in the foreseeable future.


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## Lurker (May 26, 2018)

I am, sort of.

I'll be freeing up some cash shortly and when I do I want to upgrade my kit. This will include my first foray in to big whites and FF. I shoot wildlife and birds mostly with some macro, flora and landscape. I am curious about mirrorless for silent shutter and possibly speed. Not as interested in video but it would be a nice bonus for travel.

I've been waiting for years for the opportunity to free this cash and upgrade my kit and now I'm get a little ticked with Canon for doing more to create rumors than to actually introduce new products. I'm waiting to see what they do with mirrorless and DO ST before I buy.

Circumstances are such that I could switch brands easily enough but I doubt I will do that. The reasons I went Canon are still true today. But Nikon does have some some nice bodies and glass - good enough for my purposes.


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## Antono Refa (May 26, 2018)

cpsico said:


> RiceCanon said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.
> ...



And mirrorless would require Canon to change the mount & flash system because...?

There might be reason to change the flange distance (all EF lenses could still be mounted with an extension tube), I see no reason to change the electronic interface. I see no reason to change the flash system.


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## fullstop (May 26, 2018)

Yes. i have been holding off buying any additional Canon - or other brand - stills imaging gear for more than 2 years now. Already switched from APS-C / mostly EF-S to FF -> EF lenses (L plus non L) plus additionally EOS M with EF-M lenses as a second, smaller system. Now i am just sitting back until i can consolidate everything on one single, compact mirrorless FF system. 

Am waiting to see what FF mirrorless system Canon comes up with. Sony has not convinced me enough to switch so far. One of the main reasons are Sony FE lenses. Not compact enough to make switch worthwhile for me in terms of size/weight and also far too expensive - for no gain in IQ compared to the Canon glass I have. 

But more generally: no matter whether Canon goes with EF mount or new "slim mount" for their mirrorless FF system, all currently existing EF lenses will be "legacy". They will hopefully and in all likelihood work as well as they currently do *in live view mode on Canon EOS DSLRs. Especially as far as AF performance goes. Only the very few EF lenses with STM or Nano USM drive are basically "mirrorless enabled". All other existing EF lenses are designed for traditional DSLR Phase-AF operation and will not be able to utilize full [AF] potential of mirrorless cameras with on-sensor (DP) AF system. 

Aside from AF I can see a whole range of other areas for improvement/additional functionality possible on future Canon mirrorless FF cameras related to lens-body communication and AI in both cameras and lenses. For example things like improved wireless ETTL which will require more advanced distance information coming from lens all the way to advanced, context sensitive IS systems, advanced user interface functionality (eg think of Samsung's "iFunction" button on all its NX system lenses) and whatever else may be implemented in future native mirrorless Canon lenses. Some of it may be firmware and possibly some existing EF lenses [which ones have a chip built in? certainly not the older ones?] can be firmware upgraded to get some of that functionality. But, who knows? Canon will want to sell us new glass, so they'll make sure we have enough incentive to do so want to do so. 

in short: I will definitely not buy a new Canon DSLR. I will also not buy any new EF lens, unless a needed one were to fail or be lost/stolen. Until FF mirrorless is sorted out, I will use what i got - which is not bad for my (amateur) use and needs. Ideally there will be a choice of 3 good mirrorless FF systems - Sony, Canon, Nikon to chose the one best for me from. Hopefully soon, my 5D3 plus EF glass sees less and less use due to size, weight, conspicuosness. And if none of those mirrorless FF systems will get me to a compact, decent IQ, decent UI and affordable (non pro) setup, i may really just settle for a small and cheapo crop sensor system - i could live with EOS M system if need be. Bad for Canon, not for me.


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## jolyonralph (May 26, 2018)

Antono Refa said:


> There might be reason to change the flange distance (all EF lenses could still be mounted with an extension tube),



That's essentially what EF-M is, it's electronically an updated EF mount with room for an extension tube to attach EF lenses.

There's no way that Canon will create another new mount right now. The choice is between EF mount with standard EF flange distance or using a full-frame capable EF-M mount.

Canon have nothing to lose with using a new mount. If your reason to not buy the mirrorless camera is because of your heavy investment in EF glass then Canon doesn't have to worry, they have you trapped as a customer regardless, and they'll just sell you an updated DLSR every few years instead.

But for those who do want a Canon mirrorless, congratulations, buy some new glass as well! $$$profit$$$


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## fullstop (May 26, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Canon have nothing to lose with using a new mount. If your reason to not buy the mirrorless camera is because of your heavy investment in EF glass then Canon doesn't have to worry, they have you trapped as a customer regardless, and they'll just sell you an updated DLSR every few years instead.
> 
> But for those who do want a Canon mirrorless, congratulations, buy some new glass as well! $$$profit$$$



fully agree! 



jolyonralph said:


> There's no way that Canon will create another new mount right now. The choice is between EF mount with standard EF flange distance or using a full-frame capable EF-M mount.



here I "speculate differently" - I believe Canon will transition from 2 versions of DSLR mount for FF (EF) and APS-C (EF-S) to 2 mounts for mirrorless: APS-C (EF-M) and FF ("EF-X?"). Existing EF mount lenses will be "legacy" on mirrorless anyways and there may even be one or 2 more generations of new EF lenses, until Canon phases out DSLRs. So multi-year transition period with 4 mounts: EF-S and EF on way out, EF-M here already, "EF-X?" on way in. 

I do expect maximum possible cross-compatibility between those mounts - mechanical and electronic, within the bounds of the different image circles - as with EF / EF-S. But [only] new EF-X lenses will be able to fully utilize future FF mirrorless potential - eg advanced information flow lens-body, AI in body and lenses enabling unprecedented levels of context-sensitive tracking AF performance at unprecendented fps rates ... basically a much more advanced version of what is currently called "AI Autofocus mode [AIAF]" on Canon EOS DSLRs [but hardly used by anyone for lack of trust in the systems decisions] = more deserving of the "artificial INTELLIGENCE" moniker. Plus potential upgrades to functionality of user interface [freely programmable button/s [eg similar to Samsung NX lenses with "iButton"] and or lens rings ... eg choose preferred turn direction for focus ring and zoom yourself or the speed of change when turning ring, and many more we may be surprised by when we see it first time.


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## dak723 (May 26, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > There might be reason to change the flange distance (all EF lenses could still be mounted with an extension tube),
> ...



While your logic may be true for some - it is not true for others like myself.

Canon does not have me trapped into buying a new DSLR every few years because once having tried mirrorless, I am not going to buy a DSLR every few years or ever again. My next camera will be mirrorless.

If I need to buy new lenses as well as a new camera, then I can choose any brand. I am essentially starting from scratch so all brands are now equal.

For folks like me on a limited budget, the major advantage of keeping the EF mount on a reasonably sized body is that I can buy used Canon lenses cheap. I already have a 28-105mm lens that I got for $85 US. I have tons more choices if the new Canon mirrorless is EF mount. In all likelihood, I could not afford to buy both a new camera and new lenses. And I would guess that the existing EF-M lenses that I currently have do not have a wide enough image circle for FF. That means any new EF-M mount lenses for FF will have to have a new designation - essentially as if it was a new mount.


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## ahsanford (May 26, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Canon have nothing to lose with using a new mount. If your reason to not buy the mirrorless camera is because of your heavy investment in EF glass then Canon doesn't have to worry, they have you trapped as a customer regardless, and they'll just sell you an updated DLSR every few years instead.



I agree that Canon has nothing to lose with a new mount, _if they don't over-commit to it.*_ 

Everything about that passage you wrote above implies you think Canon is about to pull a Sony here and put all their eggs in a new mount's basket. Never going to happen b/c Canon is in a completely different situation than Sony.

Trapped EF customers are not on the hook to buy DSLRs in the future, b/c their EF will work natively with the new mirrorless system. Sony has adaptors for A-mount of course, but didn't play it up because they did put all their eggs in the E-mount basket. Canon will never do this -- they will agressively push adaptor use b/c that's where all the users are, where the lenses are, etc. 

You do realize there's a good chance Canon won't embark on rebuilding EF in a smaller mount, right? The new mount might just get a very small number critical lenses that let the size savings pop, and for everything else you have an adaptor. *Or perhaps they _do_ want to climb Mt. Crazy and rebuild the heart of EF -- maybe not the really niche stuff or the superwhites, but everything else -- that will take a good 10 years to pull off. 

Either way, we're all using adaptors for a very long time. And in this case where they've over-committed to the mount, they are on the hook to develop 2x the lenses (one for EF, one for the new mount) each time, which hurts their profitability from lower production volumes of each lens.

- A


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## YuengLinger (May 26, 2018)

I'm holding off my lens purchases until Canon makes a 50mm 1.2L II.


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## sanj (May 26, 2018)

Durf said:


> Personally mirrorless cameras do not excite me one bit and I have not the slightest desire to even want one, I may be old school but all this mirrorless hype and sensationalizing kind of reminds me of the disco phenomenon.



Yes agree. You are old school.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 26, 2018)

I would not consider holding off a lens purchase just because a mirrorless version might one day be available. That availability would likely be 10 or more years in the future at best.
Canon continues to release new EF models, and its possible that there will never be "L" versions of a mirrorless lens.
As to the "M" mount, Canon has previously stated that it would not work for mirrorless. They might change their mind, but its unlikely. It would cause lots of confusion. We may see a different version of the EF mount that will only mount the new mirrorless lenses and the electrical contacts will be located differently as well.


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## fullstop (May 26, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> You do realize there's a good chance Canon won't embark on rebuilding EF in a smaller mount, right? The new mount might just get a very small number critical lenses that let the size savings pop, and for everything else you have an adaptor.



I would be perfectly fine with that as well. 90% of the time all i need is a small kit with moderately fast lenses in the most frequently used focal length range - 3x f/2.0-2.8 primes and/or 3x f/4 zooms. The other 10% are planned shoots (eg studio, architecture) and/or anything i use a tripod for, then extra size/weight of little adapter in addition to regular EF-lens does not matter at all. 

But i'd like to everything with only one FF-sensored camera body - if fitting Canon lenses come in 2 different mounts, no problem for me. Small ones will mount natively and large lenses need a simple little adapter - where's the problem? And while my usage scenario may differ from all/many/some here on this forum as well as from most pro's needs, I think it is fairly representative for a really large portion of enthusiasts/amateurs.


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## Durf (May 26, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I would not consider holding off a lens purchase just because a mirrorless version might one day be available. That availability would likely be 10 or more years in the future at best.
> Canon continues to release new EF models, and its possible that there will never be "L" versions of a mirrorless lens.
> As to the "M" mount, Canon has previously stated that it would not work for mirrorless. They might change their mind, but its unlikely. It would cause lots of confusion. We may see a different version of the EF mount that will only mount the new mirrorless lenses and the electrical contacts will be located differently as well.



I agree it'll be several years.....I really don't think Canon is losing sleep over trying to be competitive with Sony and others when it comes to making a mirrorless FF camera. Their M50 is a good example of their mindset when it comes to mirrorless.


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## Hector1970 (May 26, 2018)

Personally I think the cameras we have already are very very good.
They are also very robust. 
The current EF L glass is of a great standard and will perform great for years to come.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy new EF glass.

I'd be more cautious about buying a camera until Canon show their hand on mirrorless.
I'm not sure will Canon will do.
They may create an EF-M equivalent for full frame.
ie: A camera that doesn't appear on paper to be all that exciting but is a reasonably well functioning Full Frame.

A bold move would be to produce a 1DX III mirrorless with something like 20FPS 24MP and equal focusing system to a 1 DX II whether or not an adapter is required to use EF glass.


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## BeenThere (May 26, 2018)

If enough users slow their EF lens purchases then Canon will get the message that they need to state their future mount policy sooner rather than later. Vote with your wallet! Ok, not going to happen en mass. I’ll continue to buy for my current bodies.


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## fullstop (May 27, 2018)

BeenThere said:


> If enough users slow their EF lens purchases then Canon will get the message that they need to state their future mount policy sooner rather than later. Vote with your wallet! Ok, not going to happen en mass.



it is happening.  

not only (canon) DSLR sales are strongly declining (units) but also DSLR lenses (units). Unfortunately there is no specific data publicly available, but i think for Canon lens sales: EF-M doing well, EF-S in strong decline, EF in decline. 

Would I not be holding out for mirrorless FF but were relegated to DSLRs for many years to come, I would already have bought Canon EF 16-35/4 or 14-24 for sure and be interested to buy 85/1.4 and 24-105/4 - well, scratch that - not the Mk. II. ;D

Now that I am holding out until i can buy myself a decent, compact FF MILC - preferably from Canon - along with some nice, "pancakey" or very compact primes eg. EF-X 14/2.8, 24/2.0, 35/1.8, 85/2.4, 100/2.8 or a very compact and good EF-X 14-24/4.0 or 16-35/4 as well as a more compact (and optically great) EF-X 24-85/4.0 or 24-105/4.0 IS STM .... up to Canon, whether they want my money or not. 

But according to conventional CR forum wisdom, I am the only person on earth who would ever buy those products, so they won't ever come. There is so many more people waiting for EF 600/4 Mk. III and EF 800/5.6 Mk II, so clever Canon is putting their resources and focus on those. ;D


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## YuengLinger (May 28, 2018)

Is anybody else falling asleep going around and around this topic?


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## ahsanford (May 28, 2018)

YuengLinger said:


> Is anybody else falling asleep going around and around this topic?



On _Page 3?_ It's a bit early for that. 

We debate the FF mirrorless mount until we are blue in the face, sure, but I think a lens buying decision tree for those waiting for this new mount to (possibly) arrive is actually an interesting exercise.

Discuss on!

- A


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## slclick (May 28, 2018)

I'm good on all my M glass, no matter what they come out with...well maybe an EF-M 84 1.x, I'd jump on, but for FF, I'm still buying EF without reservation.


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## ahsanford (May 28, 2018)

One important question I'd like to poll this group on: if it's a thin mount + adaptor for FF mirrorless, will the new adaptor accept EF-S lenses for full-frame? 

I'd assume output would have to be in crop mode (unless you like that 'ship porthole' sort of view).

I'm assuming your answers are likely:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Duh, yes. It has to accept crop b/c I am convinced FF mirrorless mount is indeed just EOS-M, and that adaptor already exists and we know it takes EF-S.
[*]Yes. Regardless of whether the new mount is EF-M or something different, the adaptor will work with EF-S lenses.
[*]No. Canon enjoys the upcharge of folks migrating from crop to FF with SLRs and wants to continue that here. They want to sell EF (or new FF mirrorless) lenses and will block EF-S from working with the adaptor somehow.
[/list]

...but I could be wrong. Thoughts? My money's on (2) above. 

- A


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## slclick (May 28, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> One important question I'd like to poll this group on: if it's a thin mount + adaptor for FF mirrorless, will the new adaptor accept EF-S lenses for full-frame?
> 
> I'd assume output would have to be in crop mode (unless you like that 'ship porthole' sort of view).
> 
> ...



I'm curious just what (more than 2) EF-S lenses Canon (and users) thinks it would be worth it to make a mount consideration to accept EF-S. I can count on one hand Canon crop lenses I think are worthy....I could even lose a couple fingers in a table saw accident and feel the same way. Now, if this idea suggests including 3rd party crop glass, sure, I'm game for the mount to be all inclusive. imho, I think Sigma DC has the leg up on Canon for great crop glass.


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## fullstop (May 28, 2018)

i don't expect it. Messing around with lenses that are too small for the image circle does not make a lot of sense when there are so many fine Canon FF-capable lenses available.

I think the EF/EF-X adapter for FF mirrorless will only accept EF lenses. Otherwise there would be a lot of internet rants by n00bs claiming "i am using Canon camera with Canon lenses but all images look so weird with very dark corners ... wtf ... waaaah". ;D


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## ahsanford (May 28, 2018)

slclick said:


> I'm curious just what (more than 2) EF-S lenses Canon (and users) thinks it would be worth it to make a mount consideration to accept EF-S. I can count on one hand Canon crop lenses I think are worthy....I could even lose a couple fingers in a table saw accident and feel the same way.



It's not about _worthiness_, it's about acknowledging the pain point of having to offload your crop lenses. There was mechanical non-fit condition that obviated this with the Crop to FF move in SLRs that (in theory) should no longer be a problem for FF mirrorless -- there is no mirror for a protruding rear element to bump into.

I think allowing EF-S on the adaptor is a (slightly) gentler cost of entry for those pondering the jump to FF. You can use your 2-4 EF-S lenses on day one without added investment. Would Canon offer this functionality, or would they block it (either mechanically with the adaptor design or in the FF mirrorless body firmware) to force folks to buy new EF lenses?

- A


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## fullstop (May 28, 2018)

Most people moving from crop to FF know and accept they need FF lenses for decent FF images. 

to me "crop mode" is not even a stop-gap emergency solution. It's just a frivolous waste of valuable sensor real estate. 


Switching from crop to FF is not so hard with Canon as they also offer very affordable, decent IQ FF lenses - primes and zooms. As opposed to Sony (FE).


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## slclick (May 28, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious just what (more than 2) EF-S lenses Canon (and users) thinks it would be worth it to make a mount consideration to accept EF-S. I can count on one hand Canon crop lenses I think are worthy....I could even lose a couple fingers in a table saw accident and feel the same way.
> ...



There is no pain point, the fact that Canon glass has high resale and is very easy to move has been well documented. With all the factors being debated over with FF mirrorless, lens quality is suddenly not on the table? pish posh.


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## fullstop (May 28, 2018)

well i did lose a fair amount of money switching from ef-s to ef. eg 17-55, 10-22 - got maybe half of purchase price - in very good condition. that was years ago. today Ef- s lenses are hard to sell at any price at least where i live (europe ). people serious about photography and with sufficient budget have mostly gone FF already. entry level newcomers buying rebels are mostly happy with the kit zoom or possobly the dual kit zoom. if they buy a third lens, many go for an inexpensive new lens like ef-s 24/2.8, 60 macro, ef 50/1.8 stm. second hand market for ef-s glass is very saturated now.

tough luck.


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## ahsanford (May 28, 2018)

fullstop said:


> Switching from crop to FF is not so hard with Canon as they also offer very affordable, decent IQ FF lenses - primes and zooms. As opposed to Sony (FE).



As opposed to Nikon (SLRs) and Sony (mirrorless)... _which allow you to use crop lenses on FF today?_ :

I'm not saying I personally want to do this -- I'm saying our competition allows it today, and that makes the cost of using a FF body less than if you had to get FF lenses alongside that shiny new FF body. Sure, they may not be availing themselves of the full sensor when they do this, but you can shoot on day one for $body with Nikon/Sony or shoot with $body + $lens (or kit) with Canon.

I'm just asking if the EF-S-bumping-into-the-FF-mirror going away with mirrorless _might_ make Canon give this position a rethink.

- A


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## fullstop (May 29, 2018)

yes, i agree, technically it would be no prob on mirrorless. however, i don't see using crop lenses on ff sensors as a worthwhile "solution". anyone upgrading from APS-C and EF-S lenses does so "for better IQ and extended photographic possibilities (eg more subject isolation, selective DOF. it is a conscious decision. people dont throw away gheir tebel and puck up a 5D4 in a supermarket as an "impulse purchase". they understand and accept the need to use lenses that cover FF image circle. uf budget constrained they get a 6d2 plus 24-105 (non l) as kit lens and are "all set for ff." they can add a 50/1.8 stm for 99€, and/or the excellent 40/2.8 for little money. and or ef 70-300 ii to get an FF tele zoom. for sony such lenses are either not available or cost an arm and a leg. canon non-l lenses and ef-m glass are really whete canon shines in the "maximum bang for your buck" contest. 

ps: none of the nikon shooters i know - including many upgraders from DX to FX - has used their previous DX lenses on their new FX bodies. it just makes very little sense in real life. its a marketing gimmick.


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## bergstrom (Jun 1, 2018)

was thinking of saving up for a a7iii until I heard that when the camera is in portrait model or vertical position, face recognition focusing does go hunting. This would be a serious problem at a fashion show when you're trying to get full body shots of the models as they pose at the end of the catwalk.


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## ahsanford (Jun 1, 2018)

fullstop said:


> yes, i agree, technically it would be no prob on mirrorless. however, i don't see using crop lenses on ff sensors as a worthwhile "solution". anyone upgrading from APS-C and EF-S lenses does so "for better IQ and extended photographic possibilities (eg more subject isolation, selective DOF. it is a conscious decision.



Or: _not that._ That's only a piece of why people upgrade.

Some people move to FF for more comprehensive AF systems, better control sets, more comfortable ergonomics, better weather sealing, more options for accessories/tethering/networking, etc. Most (if not all) of that can still be enjoyed with a crop lens.

Some people move to FF for low light performance, which absolutely still works with a crop lens. 

You are asserting why someone is buying something with your own logic informed by your own worldview. That's just not how it works. As others have said, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is without value -- it's just without value _to you. _ 



> ps: none of the nikon shooters i know - including many upgraders from DX to FX - has used their previous DX lenses on their new FX bodies. it just makes very little sense in real life. its a marketing gimmick.



Anecdotes aren't the market, but I'll share mine. Just last week we had company over and both shot Nikon -- she was on an old D90 I think, and he was on a D610. What did shoot on his FX camera? A DX zoom. Why? They owned the DX rig before they went FX and didn't want to get rid of the old lenses when they did. Turns out he likes the output of the DX lens on the FX body and he still uses that lens. He keeps his one good landscape FX lens at home for the days he goes off on his own with the tripod. 

- A


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## KevinP (Jun 5, 2018)

Mirrorless won’t stop me buying lenses for new to me -used- 80D. Uncertainty on mount and long term plan is steering me to more affordable lenses. That and I have a crop body for reduced cost. A $1900 100-400 isn’t going to happen. 

I figure my next camera will be a mirrorless. Not sure if that’ll be Canon or Sony. Lots can happen before it matters to me in 3 years. I do want IBIS, and I suspect 90D may not get it. 7D3 maybe? 5D5 and 6D3 are a long way out. 5D is too much for me anyway. A73 is already one I admire, but 2x cost for full frame kit is too much for my hobby income this cycle.


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## takesome1 (Jun 5, 2018)

slclick said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



20 years of chat rooms, thousand upon thousands of posts. I finally see someone use the term "pish posh".

Well done.


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## Ozarker (Jun 8, 2018)

YuengLinger said:


> I'm holding off my lens purchases until Canon makes a 50mm 1.2L II.



Unfortunately, I don't think there will be any new f/1.2 lenses. I think f/1.4 is it. Hope I am wrong. I only say this because of the new 85mm f/1.4L.


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## Talys (Jun 8, 2018)

Mirrorless won't stop me from buying a 200-400, which is currently the only lens that I don't own that I really, really, really want 8)

I suppose, the other lens I would love is at the opposite end of the spectrum, the 11-24, but what's stopping me from buying it is that I won't get enough use to justify the price, not some potential future (possibly mirrorless) version. I know that I will buy it, spend a week taking weird, wacky photos and marvel at how awesome it is, and then pack it up and treasure it like a lens-hoarding leprechaun.


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## Maximilian (Jun 8, 2018)

RiceCanon said:


> ...does anyone ... delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? ...


Short answer:
No! Because I'll stay with OVF for at least 5 more years, maybe even 10.

Long answer:
I shoot (fast) moving subjects (sport, children, animals), and the delay an EVF delivers here is still too big for me.
I already have several good EF lenses. And a mirrorless system needs to have these lenses as well. 
I prefer OVFs. 
This surely will change, but I don't see any advantage in mirrorless, except for less moving parts and maybe a higher AF accuracy w/o the need of AFMA.
Time will come, that the EVFs are good enough, but not yet.


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## bokehmon22 (Jun 8, 2018)

Not lens but delaying buying any camera until I see Canon FF mirrorless announcement. I'm looking to upgrade my 5D IV and 6D to mirrorless. 5D IV will be my second camera for wedding and upgrade the 6D.


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## jolyonralph (Jun 8, 2018)

I didn't buy the 5D IV because I was waiting for some mirrorless (or even hybrid OVF/EVF) FF camera from Canon - ended up getting the A7RII instead which I have no regrets with.

But I'm putting off buying lenses for EITHER system right now until I see what the plans are. If Canon can pull something out that can seriously compete with the A7RIII and is as compact I'd be very tempted to sell up the Sony gear and move back entirely to Canon. But the lazy option of a 5D IV sized body with the mirror removed doesn't interest me in the slightest. If Canon go that route I'll stick with Sony.


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## scyrene (Jun 9, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> But the lazy option of a 5D IV sized body with the mirror removed doesn't interest me in the slightest. If Canon go that route I'll stick with Sony.



It wouldn't be lazy so much as a conscious design choice to capture a certain market. The endless discussions about mirrorless on these forums should have demonstrated by now that some people want a DSLR-style body, mirrorless or not. There is of course room for both, and you're allowed your preferences, but let's not be so dismissive of people with different needs.


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## Talys (Jun 9, 2018)

scyrene said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > But the lazy option of a 5D IV sized body with the mirror removed doesn't interest me in the slightest. If Canon go that route I'll stick with Sony.
> ...



+1


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## ahsanford (Jun 9, 2018)

scyrene said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > But the lazy option of a 5D IV sized body with the mirror removed doesn't interest me in the slightest. If Canon go that route I'll stick with Sony.
> ...



Yeah. I just don't understand why FF mirrorless necessitates one single decision for everyone.

Of the three outcomes:

1) Canon announces a thin mount FF mirrorless body and from that point on that's the only mirrorless mount we ever get.
2) Canon announces an EF mirrorless body and from from that point on that's the only mirrorless mount we ever get.
3) Canon announces mirrorless bodies in both mounts, though not necessarily at the same time.

My chips are pretty firmly on (3). The rationale:

If (say) half the mirrorless market insists on the possibility of the lens + body being smaller (despite all the lenses/speeds that won't benefit from that, yes), Canon simply has to offer a thin body and a small spread of tiny lenses. That's that. Throw practicality of a single mount EF system out the window for now -- if the market wants small, give them small.

But that can't possibly be an end-game professional instrument (long-term rig of choice) if an adaptor + tiny gripped body is constantly being used with the bigger/faster/niche-ier/older glass. So Canon has to either remake a ton of EF lenses, or they just bite the bullet and offer an EF body for folks packing the heavy glass all day. My money is on the latter.

I think they offer both mounts.

- A


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## RGF (Jun 14, 2018)

No - if my current stable of lenses will fit on a Mirrorless body, great I will consider it. Mirrorless is lighter and generally simplier but in the end it is just box to hold the sensor.

If the mirrorless cameras need new lenses I am not interested


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## Trigger (Jul 3, 2018)

RiceCanon said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.



My question is, if Canon (and Nikon) release killer FF mirrorless bodies, what will that do to their DSLR lineups?


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## Don Haines (Jul 3, 2018)

Trigger said:


> RiceCanon said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.
> ...



Personally, if they released a camera today that was superior in all ways to what I have now, and even if it took the same lenses natively, my current gear would still take great images and I would probably wait a year or so....

If they released a 500F5.6, I would be on that like a fat boy on a wedding cake!


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## Durf (Jul 3, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Trigger said:
> 
> 
> > RiceCanon said:
> ...



I feel exactly the same way, everything I have and am using now works great for me. (no matter what the internet says)!


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## takesome1 (Jul 3, 2018)

Trigger said:


> RiceCanon said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.
> ...



As with all technology as mirrorless improves gradually DSLR's sales will fall and at some point in the future production goes away all together. It will not happen next week, next year and most likely not even in the next decade. Maybe in the 2030's.

Anyway that is my crystal ball prediction.


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## takesome1 (Jul 3, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> Trigger said:
> 
> 
> > RiceCanon said:
> ...



Shoot many weddings?


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## docsmith (Jul 3, 2018)

No. Not waiting. I have a really hard time thinking about what "mirrorless" offers that I want. I've seen the lists and am underwhelmed. 

Biggest for me would be AF focus point spread across the entire frame. Once in a long while, I might need high fps...but very infrequently. 

So, no, not waiting. I just picked up a couple of EF lenses and am having a great time using those.



Don Haines said:


> If they released a 500F5.6, I would be on that like a fat boy on a wedding cake!



400 DO II with a 1.4TC...560 f/5.6. I've used it, amazing combination. I know you already are aware...so I am just sayin'..... ;D


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## Trigger (Jul 3, 2018)

I was going to create a new thread with my question, but I feel that it dovetails into this one, so here goes:

Given the number of years that the 500 & 600 f/4 II lenses have been out, is it bad timing to buy the present version of either? I think I read somewhere that Mark III versions are possibly in the works. Anybody know anything firm on that? Added to the concern of a new version coming out shortly after buying the present version, is the fact that the service expiration date begins to tick closer the moment the new one is released (7 years isn't it?).

New mirrorless bodies also factor in to the potential bad timing it seems.

I'm ready to buy a 500 II, I just think I'd feel that I should have waited if a III comes out within the next year or two, or if mirrorless changes things too.


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## ahsanford (Jul 3, 2018)

Trigger said:


> I'm ready to buy a 500 II, I just think I'd feel that I should have waited if a III comes out within the next year or two, or if mirrorless changes things too.



I won't speak to the timing of III superwhites, but I fail to see how mirrorless will change anything at all on long glass. If FF mirrorless is a new mount, new superwhites won't be natively made for it -- so I see the III superwhites surely being EF and requiring adaptor use for mirrorless.

- A


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## BeenThere (Jul 3, 2018)

Trigger said:


> I was going to create a new thread with my question, but I feel that it dovetails into this one, so here goes:
> 
> Given the number of years that the 500 & 600 f/4 II lenses have been out, is it bad timing to buy the present version of either? I think I read somewhere that Mark III versions are possibly in the works. Anybody know anything firm on that? Added to the concern of a new version coming out shortly after buying the present version, is the fact that the service expiration date begins to tick closer the moment the new one is released (7 years isn't it?).
> 
> ...


As you probably are aware, there have been persistent rumors of smaller/lighter superteles using DO technology. If I were you, looking for a new one now, I would probably wait awhile, or buy used so that you could get back a larger percent of purchase when reselling (maybe) at a later date.


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## Trigger (Jul 3, 2018)

BeenThere said:


> As you probably are aware, there have been persistent rumors of smaller/lighter superteles using DO technology. If I were you, looking for a new one now, I would probably wait awhile...



Would the DO versions fully replace the IIs?


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## BeenThere (Jul 3, 2018)

Trigger said:


> BeenThere said:
> 
> 
> > As you probably are aware, there have been persistent rumors of smaller/lighter superteles using DO technology. If I were you, looking for a new one now, I would probably wait awhile...
> ...


For 1 to 1 replacement, I think Canon would drop the old version after current stock is depleted..


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## Don Haines (Jul 3, 2018)

docsmith said:


> No. Not waiting. I have a really hard time thinking about what "mirrorless" offers that I want. I've seen the lists and am underwhelmed.
> 
> Biggest for me would be AF focus point spread across the entire frame. Once in a long while, I might need high fps...but very infrequently.
> 
> ...



DO technology has its appeal.... my camera kit on canoe trips already weighs more than my camping gear....


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## docsmith (Jul 3, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > No. Not waiting. I have a really hard time thinking about what "mirrorless" offers that I want. I've seen the lists and am underwhelmed.
> ...



I hear you. I tend to go with an M3 with a 18-55 in a small pouch and then something longer mounted to my 5DIV.


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## Don Haines (Jul 3, 2018)

docsmith said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > docsmith said:
> ...



My problem is that I end up in places with dark skies, and that leads to nighttime photography..... and that means FF body, F1.4 lenses, and a heavy tripod..... This is the one time that I feel jealous of the physically smaller Sony cameras....


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## slclick (Jul 3, 2018)

I'm selling off my lesser used EF-M lenses and keeping my L glass. I'm now down to just an EF-M 22 and it works for me as I could just glue it to the body and be done. As for EF, I won't be an early adopter of FF ML especially if the body is tiny and besides size, I am in the 'don't see that many advantages (that work for me)' 

EF isn't going anywhere.


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## docsmith (Jul 3, 2018)

Trigger said:


> I was going to create a new thread with my question, but I feel that it dovetails into this one, so here goes:
> 
> Given the number of years that the 500 & 600 f/4 II lenses have been out, is it bad timing to buy the present version of either? I think I read somewhere that Mark III versions are possibly in the works. Anybody know anything firm on that? Added to the concern of a new version coming out shortly after buying the present version, is the fact that the service expiration date begins to tick closer the moment the new one is released (7 years isn't it?).
> 
> ...




Best camera advice (maybe life??). Do not wait. When you are ready, do it. For cameras, when you are ready and have the need, look at what is available and make the best decision you can at that time. There will always be a "new release."


For what it's worth, the rumblings and patents on new lenses can still mean that the new lenses are years away. We have all seen multiple patents for different lenses well before their actual release. 

So, you wait based on a rumor, you could easily miss many great photography opportunities.


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## Trigger (Jul 3, 2018)

docsmith said:


> Best camera advice (maybe life??). Do not wait. When you are ready, do it. For cameras, when you are ready and have the need, look at what is available and make the best decision you can at that time. There will always be a "new release."
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, the rumblings and patents on new lenses can still mean that the new lenses are years away. We have all seen multiple patents for different lenses well before their actual release.
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I know what you mean, and I agree, but on an item of this dollar value, it's a little different. One has pause when the current version is 6-7 years old, and there are rumors of new DO versions. I did own the previous (IS) version of the 500 f/4 for two years, and the weight was an issue. I've been using the 100-400 II for the last ~year, and while it is good and very versatile, the 500 f/4 II keeps me awake at night - LOL. You'd have to admit that the DO version of the 500/600 _could_ indeed be released soon, maybe even announced this Fall, and the feeling (at that time) of having just bought the "old" II version at full price, should that happen, would not be good, especially when size & weight are a huge factor.


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## docsmith (Jul 3, 2018)

Trigger said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > Best camera advice (maybe life??). Do not wait. When you are ready, do it. For cameras, when you are ready and have the need, look at what is available and make the best decision you can at that time. There will always be a "new release."
> ...



Sure, but that is why they invented ebay. ;D

Then consider if Canon was to announce Mk III versions of the lenses or DO versions of the 500 f/4 and 600 f/4, I'd expect a price hike over the current Mk II versions. Mk I to Mk II was pretty steep. I'd expect less, maybe $2k. Also, how much of a gain in weight do you really expect? The 400 DO II is 4.6 lbs, the 500 II is 7.0 lbs (w/o hoods). The next gen 500 f/4 would still need the larger front element. 

Just some thoughts, I do not mean to pressure you.


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