# 50mm f1.4 group photo



## bearbooth (Aug 14, 2012)

Hi all, new here and new to photography

Just need to ask a simple question.......
I recently took a group photo (around 8 people) using 5D3 with a 50mm 1.4 but it came out blur except where I was focused. I think I was standing around 3m.......kept backing up until I got everyone into frame.

Shooting Mode	Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )	1/20
Av( Aperture Value )	9.0
Metering Mode	Center-Weighted Average Metering
Exposure Compensation	0
ISO Speed	12800
Auto ISO Speed	ON
Lens	EF50mm f/1.4 USM
Focal Length	50.0mm
Image Size	2880x1920
Image Quality	Fine
Flash	Off
FE lock	OFF
White Balance Mode	Auto
White balance compensation	A2, 0 
AF Mode	One-Shot AF
AF area select mode	Spot AF
Picture Style	Auto


any suggestion would be grateful. Thanks

is it camera shake? I cant really get away with handheld at a 1/20 speed right?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 14, 2012)

bearbooth said:


> Hi all, new here and new to photography
> 
> Just need to ask a simple question.......
> I recently took a group photo (around 8 people) using 5D3 with a 50mm 1.4 but it came out blur except where I was focused.
> ...


Can you post the photo or a link with exif info? There are several possibilities.
How close were you?
The camera may override your AV settings if necessary to get a properly exposed image, check the exif and see what it says about the settings. If that happened, you might have f/1.4 rather than f/9 as you thought.


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## Plato the Wise (Aug 14, 2012)

Even at f/9 the 50 mm lens would have a fairly shallow depth of field. If the subject was about 5 feet from the camera, you would only have about 1.6 feet in focus (split towards and away from the subject).

This site can help you calculate depth of field to give you a better idea.

http://www.dofmaster.com

Try lining everyone up so their faces fall in line as close as possible or use a wide angle lens to increase the depth of field.


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## philsv77 (Aug 14, 2012)

At f/9 for 50mm len, everything should be in focus assuming you're not too close to the subject. I never need to shoot group portrait at that small aperture, f5.6 is usually enough. Based on your description, if indeed the center is in focus, then you're standing too close to the group. How big is the group? If it is 6-10 people group, safe distance is at least ~3m in general.

A shot with details should help.


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## RGomezPhotos (Aug 14, 2012)

Agreed.



philsv77 said:


> At f/9 for 50mm len, everything should be in focus assuming you're not too close to the subject. I never need to shoot group portrait at that small aperture, f5.6 is usually enough. Based on your description, if indeed the center is in focus, then you're standing too close to the group. How big is the group? If it is 6-10 people group, safe distance is at least ~3m in general.
> 
> A shot with details should help.


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## bearbooth (Aug 15, 2012)

just edited my first post included the photo. thanks


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 15, 2012)

bearbooth said:


> just edited my first post included the photo. thanks


After downloading and viewing the image and exif, I wondered if you were using a tripod? 1/20 sec for a 50mm lens with a 22 mp body is pretty slow. I'd prefer to use 1/125 sec and set the aperture to f/2. It looks like some motion blur, but it might just be that the use of ISO 12800, and taking it as a small jpeg which throws away even more detail.
I'd recommend using raw and post processing to control the NR and sharpening. The 5D MK III does not do a spectacular job with jpegs, particularly if you have the images set to small jpeg.


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## Menace (Aug 15, 2012)

Hand held 1/20 is bit slow without an IS so a tripod would be advised. Also, you may have some motion blur too so a faster shutter will be req.

Also, I wonder if the camera focused on the background rather than the subjects?

I'd suggest keep practicing in the low light situations - even try the M mode with auto ISO.

Happy shooting


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## bearbooth (Aug 15, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> bearbooth said:
> 
> 
> > just edited my first post included the photo. thanks
> ...



thanks guys.
Didnt have a tripod, was a spur of a moment photo....
I do take photos in both jpeg and sRaw. The attached is the converted sRaw with no processing.

I thought I had focused first on my wife before recomposing but as you guys say, I might have focused on the background and then the 1/20 speed handheld didn't help at all.

so much I still need to learn....thanks again.

In theory, if I had a tripod, preferably a flash as well, I would only have needed a f4-5.6 setting and everyone would have came out sharp? Would it matter much who I focused on?


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## M.ST (Aug 15, 2012)

For a handheld shot with 50 mm focal lenght you need without a tripod or IS a shutterspeed of 1/60 or shorter.

I use f/2.8 for pair shots and for groups f/5.6 to f/8 and prefer a shutter speed of 1/125 to freeze all action.

Check your white balance. The dialed in ISO is very high. Use a bounce flash.

Hint: Some of the produced EF 50 1.4 lenses have problems with the AF. It´s not possible with auto af or manual AF to get sharp pictures. Send in the lens for adjustments.


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## NotABunny (Aug 15, 2012)

Full frame at 3 meters, F9 and 50 mm gives you 2.15 meters of DOF. You can actually see this in your photo: from the cloth on front of the table to the wood pattern from the back-left side, everything is focused.

There can be two problems why your shot is blurry: 1) movement of camera / people, 2) the auto-focus in low light is not accurate and has focused way behind the people. There also appears way too much noise reduction, with some crappy algorithm, which has caused a significant loss of resolution.

By the way, at F4 you still get 87 centimeters of DOF, so you can get all the people in focus and get 2 stops more of shutter speed (80).


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## elflord (Aug 15, 2012)

bearbooth said:


> Hi all, new here and new to photography
> 
> Just need to ask a simple question.......
> I recently took a group photo (around 8 people) using 5D3 with a 50mm 1.4 but it came out blur except where I was focused. I think I was standing around 3m.......kept backing up until I got everyone into frame.
> ...



In addition to the other comments -- white balance looks off (the camera often gets this wrong indoors). Shoot raw so you can easily fix it afterwards.


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## pwp (Aug 15, 2012)

1/20 sec? 
Motion blur...

-PW


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## Plato the Wise (Aug 15, 2012)

The general rule is to shoot at least 1/focal length of the lens to avoid camera shake from blurring images. For example - if you are shooting with a 50 mm lens, 1/50 sec or round up to 1/60. 200 mm would be 1/250 sec etc. Anything less and your risking a soft image.


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## philsv77 (Aug 15, 2012)

Agreed! If I would do it, it would be with bounce flash at the combo f/3.5 and ISO-2000, which is roughly equivalent to the setting you had at f/9, ISO 12800. I would not push ISO beyond 3200 even on 5d3.

Still a beautiful group of people . Have fun shooting!


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## CANONPRO123 (Aug 16, 2012)

now maybe im missing something or i see something no one else does, but it does seem that your lens must need some micro adjustment (i know my 50 1.4 did on my 5d3) bc it seems like the camera is focused on the back wall...


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## Northstar (Aug 16, 2012)

To my eye, nothing in this image is in focus, it all looks a bit fuzzy. So I think it's just a simple case of slow 1/20 shutter speed, and you moved.

1/60 at a minimum for this shot IMO.


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## pdirestajr (Aug 16, 2012)

I think the problem is that you are using a 5DIII, which if you read enough threads on CR, you'll learn is a terrible camera. And that you aren't using an L lens. All non L lenses are total rubbish an should only be used as doorstops. You need a 50mm f/1.2L and NEVER use it at any other setting besides f/1.2! Just focus on one person's most interesting eyelash- Who cares about the rest. I need to see some bokeh!

Um, just kidding. I think lots of people covered possible fixes. Shallow DOF + slow shutter speeds + moving subjects = tough.


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## bbasiaga (Aug 16, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> I think the problem is that you are using a 5DIII, which if you read enough threads on CR, you'll learn is a terrible camera. And that you aren't using an L lens. All non L lenses are total rubbish an should only be used as doorstops. You need a 50mm f/1.2L and NEVER use it at any other setting besides f/1.2! Just focus on one person's most interesting eyelash- Who cares about the rest. I need to see some bokeh!
> 
> Um, just kidding. I think lots of people covered possible fixes. Shallow DOF + slow shutter speeds + moving subjects = tough.



You forgot to mention that this photo wasn't taken with a Nikon, and therefore had no chance for success from the beginning. LOL! 

On a serious note, what is MFD for thr 50 1.4? A lot of times as you approach that, the images get a little soft. 

-Brian


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## DB (Aug 16, 2012)

The slowest recommended handheld shutter speed is 1/60s, but like many others above have said, an even faster shutter speed of 1/100s to 1/125s is infinitely preferable - just even to capture the image at the correct moment and to avoid say people blinking.

Regarding the correct focusing, if you choose AF mode then your camera will choose the closest object/person, it might be a good idea to try Live View next time (pops the mirror up too), then hit the zoom button twice so you get 10x magnification, then focus in on the person's eyes who is sitting in the middle. Then take your shot. You can also select an optimum aperture (often f5.6 to f8) for your specific lens and keep the ISO at 200 or 400 when shooting even well-lit scenes like this indoors.

Finally, one simple trick often used by Pro's and enthusiasts is to switch to Hi-Speed shooting and take multiple shots in succession, that way you can minimize any handshake effect, as you'll have several exposures to choose from (then delete the OOF ones in-camera)


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## 5D Freak (Aug 16, 2012)

I reckon 1/80s, F2.8, Iso 800 - pic is over exposed by 1.5 steps - just my opinion. Looks like you have used spot metering on this one. For group shots, I would use a more overall metering. Just reduce the exposure - it is at night time anyway. If you shot RAW, you can pull it back in post. I find it very difficult to freeze action with people at everything over 1/60s. Background might be ok, but people move! Even renders image stabilizing ineffective!


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## 5D Freak (Aug 16, 2012)

Totally agree with the previous post to. However, I find live view a bit cumbersome when dealing with people photos handheld. Live view on the fly is a technique to master for me. I just like to look through the viewfinder to aquire focus and framing - just so used to the centrepoint focus/recompose with the 5DII. Don't be afraid of taking multiple shots (up to 6 or 7 at 3fps for 5DII) as memory cards are cheap and you can pick the best frame. Apeture f9 is a way too closed apeture at iso12800. I would be targeting f2.0 to f2.8 for most stuff (lets more light in) at iso 1600 or less for printing. iso 6400/12800 is for facebook purposes only IMO. You were taking this pic from a long range, so you depth of field should cover focus on all subjects at f/2.8 or f/4.0 at worst - esp if all subjects lie close to the focus plane (multiple rows of people in a group shot may require f/5.6). All about trial and error. Different photographers have different styles and you will develop your own. Just have fun taking the picks and you will find what works for you!


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## philsv77 (Aug 17, 2012)

I don't recommend using tripod to shoot portrait as it's too sssssslow to act and there is not much difference in sharpness. You may need it if you want to print anything > 24 x 36in. Otherwise, dont. With the right technique and practice, you will get a sharp photo without tripod.

With just ambient light as main light, you will have to use fast speed, ~1/100s for a non-moving subjects (general rule is 1/focal length as some already mentioned) for medium lens. If you shoot kids, forget it. YOu will need at least 1/200s. 

With flash acting as main light, you can drag the shutter, meaning you can shoot as slow as 1/15s without getting blurry. See the following shot taken @1/20s, f/5.0, 800 ISO.


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