# Canon 6D or 70D dilemma - please help



## MartynV (Aug 29, 2013)

Hi,

I have a dilemma as to which Canon camera to purchase and would be grateful for any advice.

I currently have a 650D which I use for holidays, indoor product photography, close ups/macros, landscapes, architectural (trips to stately homes, etc), portraits (family) and occasionally air shows. I sometimes shoot video but haven't been impressed with the results so far. I own a 35mm f/2 IS USM and 40mm STM and plan to get either a 100mm f/2.8L Macro or 24-70 f/4L if Canon can fix the focus shifting issue. 

I have read many posts on this site and others but I am in a quandary - do I get the 6D which seems to be a better fit as far as still photography or the newer 70D which may offer more accurate focusing (19 cross type v. 1) and the articulated screen which I have often used on my 650D. 

I sometimes feel frustrated that my 650D's frame buffer runs out too quickly (such as photographing the Red Arrows at Airbourne) and it lacks dynamic range for landscapes leaving the sky blue and the ground seemingly dark, but it is not clear if the 70D's marginal improvement in dynamic range reported by DxO will make a noticeable difference in actual use. I also find the 650D's viewfinder (previously owned a 40D) just too small for accurate manual focusing.

Thanks in advance.

Martyn


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## RLPhoto (Aug 29, 2013)

You get a better buffer & AF from the 70D than the 6D but if your willing to fidget with the camera more... The 6D makes more sense. The DR will be a tiny bit better and if that's your primary worry, nikon is better in that aspect.


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## MartynV (Aug 29, 2013)

Hi,

Thanks, I'm surprised the 6D's frame buffer can be a problem. Changing to Nikon is an option but I can only afford the D600 and I've read that it suffers from unwanted oil and dust problems.

Can the 6D's AI Servo mode cope with aircraft?

Thanks,

Martyn


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## bholliman (Aug 29, 2013)

The 6D seems to be a really good fit for your requirements. The 6D has excellent image quality and low-light capability, but its autofocus is somewhat limited compared with higher end FF cameras, the 7D and new 70D. The dual pixal AF improvements in the 70D will help focusing for video and for photographers who focus using Live View rather than the viewfinder AF system, but if you shoot mostly stills using the viewfinder, the new AF system won't be an improvement.

For me and the type of shooting I do (family, travel, landscapes), the advantages of full frame (6D) far outweigh the live view AF improvements in the 70D, which would only help me for shooting video. 

Do you shoot in RAW or JPEG? While shooting in RAW will not improve dynamic range, it will give you much more flexibility in post processing, so you can recover shadows and highlights much, much better than with trying to PP jpeg files.



MartynV said:


> Can the 6D's AI Servo mode cope with aircraft?



I used my 6D with 70-200 2.8 II lens at a recent air show and was pleased with the results. The buffer filled occasionally and I had to wait, but only a few times during the day and I don't feel I missed many shots. I've used my 7D in the past a airshows and its AF does perform better. But, overall I had more really good shots using the 6D.


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## Ruined (Aug 29, 2013)

I would say neither. 6D likely won't meet your speed, reach, nor autofocus needs. 70D might not meet your image quality needs. 

You might want to wait and see what the 7D MKII brings - apparently being released in next 3-6 months and could bring an improved 24mp APS-C sensor.

If the rumors are correct, it might be the perfect blend of quality and features you are looking for.

Especially with the burst/frame buffer, it is likely the 7D MKII will go unmatched in its price range.


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## bholliman (Aug 29, 2013)

Ruined said:


> the 7D MKII will go unmatched in its price range.



Any ideas what the 7D2 price range will be? Specifications and capabilities are still just a matter of speculation.


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## Ruined (Aug 29, 2013)

bholliman said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > the 7D MKII will go unmatched in its price range.
> ...



$1999 is what I have heard. The original 7D was impressive in it burst and I heard the 7D MKII will be even more impressive.


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## MartynV (Aug 29, 2013)

Hi,

The 7DII sounds a good idea but Canon would need to achieve a step change in noise performance over the 60D/70D. While the 70D is attractive, the sensor just doesn't seem to offer a major improvement over the 650D for still photography. 

Martyn



Ruined said:


> I would say neither. 6D likely won't meet your speed, reach, nor autofocus needs. 70D might not meet your image quality needs.
> 
> You might want to wait and see what the 7D MKII brings - apparently being released in next 3-6 months and could bring an improved 24mp APS-C sensor.
> 
> ...


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## MartynV (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks, I mainly shoot jpeg and I'm hoping the Digic 5+ of either the 6D or 70D would help with CA correction. If so, another 24-105 would be worthwhile. I used to own a 24-105 but it wasn't a good match on my old 40D.

It's interesting that the 6D can cope with air shows. I would have thought a 70-200 f/2.8 wouldn't provide enough reach if the UK's obsession with health and safety is anything to go by.

My concern with the 6D is the lack of an articulating rear screen. This has sometimes been genuinely useful, such as at a dog agility display when I was able to hold a 70-200 f/4 IS above my head (like a periscope) and use the articulated screen to focus.

Martyn



bholliman said:


> The 6D seems to be a really good fit for your requirements. The 6D has excellent image quality and low-light capability, but its autofocus is somewhat limited compared with higher end FF cameras, the 7D and new 70D. The dual pixal AF improvements in the 70D will help focusing for video and for photographers who focus using Live View rather than the viewfinder AF system, but if you shoot mostly stills using the viewfinder, the new AF system won't be an improvement.
> 
> For me and the type of shooting I do (family, travel, landscapes), the advantages of full frame (6D) far outweigh the live view AF improvements in the 70D, which would only help me for shooting video.
> 
> ...


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## Janbo Makimbo (Aug 29, 2013)

Have a look at Digital Revs review of the 70D on You Tube... Not overly glowing.

For the kind of shooting you are doing with only the occasional air show, I think the 6D would be better for you.

If you are reasonably adept at using a DSLR then the 6D focussing should not be that big of a problem.


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## Ruined (Aug 29, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> Have a look at Digital Revs review of the 70D on You Tube... Not overly glowing.
> 
> For the kind of shooting you are doing with only the occasional air show, I think the 6D would be better for you.
> 
> If you are reasonably adept at using a DSLR then the 6D focussing should not be that big of a problem.



I read the OP wants to photograph planes that are far away and also with high burst speed. The 6D's more primitive autofocus and buffer are not ideal for this as it is smaller than the 7D's, plus since it is full frame you get less reach on telephotos. 

Out of the currently available cameras the 7D appears the best match as it can do the other items requested as well, but it is probably better to wait and see what Canon delivers in the 7D MKII as the current 7D's sensor is inferior to the 70D's due to the age of the current 7D. I have read an improved 24MP sensor is a possibility for 7D MKII, but will not know for sure until it is announced. Even if the 7D MKII's sensor only matches the 70D, I believe the distance/focusing/versatility may be better for the OP than the 6D which is more ideal for indoor work, or outdoor photos requiring less reach.

Still, of currently available cameras the 7D is a better choice than the 6D when it comes to fast motion far away objects where it will deliver higher detail and better burst. 6D is better for low light, higher detail, less noise on objects in close to moderate range. But with 7D MKII model released very soon, I think waiting for MKII to see what it delivers is the smartest move.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Aug 29, 2013)

Ruined said:


> Janbo Makimbo said:
> 
> 
> > Have a look at Digital Revs review of the 70D on You Tube... Not overly glowing.
> ...



I read the OP too, are you familiar with the word occassional ?

For the majority of the photography he does, the 6D would be better than the 70D and way better than the 7D ( I had one of those one of the worse cameras for handling noise you can get)

I am ssuming the OP is after better picture quality.


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## Ruined (Aug 29, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> I read the OP too, are you familiar with the word occassional ?



Yes, although it is still something that the OP desires, and the other functions can be served by a crop.



> For the majority of the photography he does, the 6D would be better than the 70D and way better than the 7D ( I had one of those one of the worse cameras for handling noise you can get)



The 7D's sensor is outdated as stated above, which is why the replacement model is coming soon. But it still has great burst rate and 7D MKII will likely be even better. Note for in addition to reach, video on 7D MKII will likely work better based on the results of the 70D, and another element the OP mentioned as being a problem w/ current body... Although that being said the video on even a 650D is going to have better results than the 6D. So if the OP was unhappy with video on the 650D, its going to get even worse with a 6D.



> I am ssuming the OP is after better picture quality.



We don't know how the 7D MKII will look yet, so it might be worth the wait to see given it is likely 3-6 months at most. There are rumors it may use either the 70D sensor or a new 24MP sensor.

And of course, APS and APS-C both have different image quality benefits. APS has better detail for closer objects, APS-C has better detail for further away objects. APS has less noise in low light. APS-C has more affordable cameras designed for video. Some APS-C have autofocus comparable to much more expensive APS cameras.

OP, if you plan to stick with APS-C I might suggest the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 instead of the L lens you selected. It may give you a better range on the wide end; then compliment that with a higher end L telephoto like the 70-200mm f4 IS or f2.8 IS. On the other hand if you are going APS the lens you mentioned is great.

Still, the 35mm f/2 IS USM is an excellent lens so if you are unhappy with its results and are certain you are getting the most out of the camera (proper lighting, settings, etc) you may want to consider APS instead and just sacrifice the reach & video capabilities.


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## MartynV (Aug 29, 2013)

I only go to one or two airshows per year so would a 6D cope with slow jets?



Ruined said:


> Janbo Makimbo said:
> 
> 
> > Have a look at Digital Revs review of the 70D on You Tube... Not overly glowing.
> ...


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## Robboesan (Aug 29, 2013)

What about neither and invest in some good glass instead??


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## MartynV (Aug 30, 2013)

Robboesan said:


> What about neither and invest in some good glass instead??



Good idea, but the 24-70 f/2.8II is too heavy for holiday, the 24-70 f/4 has focus shifting issues and I've owned a 24-105 for 6 years (now sold). I do have a 35mm which is like a 50mm on a 650D.


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## sdsr (Aug 30, 2013)

When you write that your present camera "it lacks dynamic range for landscapes leaving the sky blue and the ground seemingly dark", presumably you're exposing for the sky rather than the ground? This is a common problem but it can usually be fixed by experimenting more with exposure, shooting raw and adjusting the results with software. Do you do that now? If so, and you're still not satisfied and want to stick with Canon rather than switching to Pentax or Nikon for sensors with greater DR, you would likely find that switching to a FF sensor helps - I find it easier to restore colours to the sky and other areas with washed-out highlights and detail/light to the dark bits with a FF sensor. I assume they would beat the 70D in that regard too.

I doubt a 70D or 6D will satisfy all your requirements (though I've never tried photographing planes etc. with my 6D); you will likely need to compromise and thus decide which of your various wants matter most. Can you rent (or hire or whatever the right verb is in the UK) a 6D and find out first hand?


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## MartynV (Aug 30, 2013)

Hi,

Thanks, I've tried locking the exposure on the ground first and tried 1+ stop exposure compensation. That seems to help but my 650D often underexposes with the 35mm f/2 IS. What software would you recommend for restoring the sky as described?

Renting is possible and this has eliminated the need for me to own a 70-200 f/4L IS, so worth a try for the 6D at least.

Martyn



sdsr said:


> When you write that your present camera "it lacks dynamic range for landscapes leaving the sky blue and the ground seemingly dark", presumably you're exposing for the sky rather than the ground? This is a common problem but it can usually be fixed by experimenting more with exposure, shooting raw and adjusting the results with software. Do you do that now? If so, and you're still not satisfied and want to stick with Canon rather than switching to Pentax or Nikon for sensors with greater DR, you would likely find that switching to a FF sensor helps - I find it easier to restore colours to the sky and other areas with washed-out highlights and detail/light to the dark bits with a FF sensor. I assume they would beat the 70D in that regard too.
> 
> I doubt a 70D or 6D will satisfy all your requirements (though I've never tried photographing planes etc. with my 6D); you will likely need to compromise and thus decide which of your various wants matter most. Can you rent (or hire or whatever the right verb is in the UK) a 6D and find out first hand?


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## Famateur (Aug 30, 2013)

MartynV said:


> What software would you recommend for restoring the sky as described?



Just jumping in here because I've recently been through a similar experience with software. I would highly recommend that you shoot RAW and use Lightroom 5 (B&H has a $50 24-hour discount right now). I snapped up the same deal a couple weeks ago from Adorama and couldn't be happier.

Some other thoughts:


You'll need a capable computer to run Lightroom. It's RAM-hungry and my old laptop (6 years) with 4GB on Windows 7 64-bit can get by, but it lags terribly once I've used a few local adjustment brushes.
It's amazing how much you can do correcting exposure, both across the whole image and locally where needed. There are numerous helpful how-to videos on YouTube to get you going.
In addition to exposure and white balance control, you can correct for lens distortion, chromatic aberration, perspective, horizon...and a zillion other things to really improve each photo.
You might start by shooting RAW+JPEG. This allows you to experiment in Lightroom and compare to what you would have had with in-camera JPEG. I expect you'd be quite pleased with the difference.
Perhaps the best part: All the adjustments you do in Lightroom are non-destructive. As your skills improve (or if you simply want a different look from the image), you can go back and change, undo or adjust anything you've done to the original RAW file.

Anyway, do what works for you. Just thought I'd share my recent experience moving from JPEG to RAW + Lightroom 5. It's quite addicting now...


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## bholliman (Aug 30, 2013)

Famateur said:


> I would highly recommend that you shoot RAW and use Lightroom 5



+1, good response


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## Don Haines (Aug 30, 2013)

bholliman said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > I would highly recommend that you shoot RAW and use Lightroom 5
> ...



Agree 100 percent...

BTW, I shoot with a 60D. I have no interest in upgrading to a 70D as it isn't enough of a jump to be worth it. I like the extra reach of crop cameras and do not shoot that much in conditions where the extra ISO/noise ability of FF would be that useful to me. There are several nice features on the 70D that I would find nice, but I have learned that what I really need is good autofocus and high frame rate. I can't afford a 1DX and I am hoping that the autofocus system on the 7D2 will be close to the 1DX.... at any rate, it should be far superior to the 6D. Perhaps an option for you is to not buy a camera yet...

Put a sharp lens, like one of the 70-200's, on ANY rebel and learn how to use lightroom and you will not believe the quality of the images that you can produce. Shooting RAW and using lightroom will have more impact on your photos than going to a 6D will.


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## bholliman (Aug 30, 2013)

MartynV said:


> It's interesting that the 6D can cope with air shows. I would have thought a 70-200 f/2.8 wouldn't provide enough reach if the UK's obsession with health and safety is anything to go by.



We were sitting very close to the main runway where planes were taking off and landing. There were also plenty of close fly-bys. 200mm was fine for the most part, I used a borrowed EF 1.4Xiii extender at times and had to do a fair amount of cropping on some shots. A 70-300 or 100-400 would be a better choice for air shows.


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## Famateur (Aug 30, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > Famateur said:
> ...



Thanks! I started with Digital Photo Professional, and while it was better than JPEG, I found Lightroom 5 to be easier to use, more powerful, feature-rich and worth _every _penny.



Don Haines said:


> Shooting RAW and using lightroom will have more impact on your photos than going to a 6D will.



Amen!


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## sarakoth (Aug 30, 2013)

I had similar thoughts when I recently upgraded.. deciding between a 70D, 6D and possible 7D2.

I ended up with the 6D as the better IQ of all my shots, versus the occasional shot I might miss due to poor AF seemed like the best option. I shoot a variety of subjects and other than going for a 5D3 a compromise had to be made. So far I am very happy with my 6D.. 

One thing with airshows.. I assume you will actually be a fair way away.. and while planes move fast, they don't move that fast in relation to you and also they move in a very predictable way. The 6D has the rear button AF lock on, which I used to good effect at a recent track day. I had little problem locking on with the center point on my subject, let the camera track and then press the shutter when the subject was framed how I wanted.. also as far as burst... I was shooting RAW and rarely had a issue.. though you tend to take 4 or 5 pics as the cars go past and that is it.. an airshow I imagine you might well just keep you finger down constantly. I shot a airshow a few years ago with the 500D and the 6D AF is certainly no worse than that.. yes the outer points are not as good as a 7D but the IQ is much better. Also with an airshow I would imagine you take most photos with the planes in the center of the pic? As there is nothing else of context around them?? To me the outer points are for when the scene might be crowded but your main subject is off center.. maybe review you existing photos and see where in the frame the subject is.. also with the distance so far away, with your DOF you can focus using centre point and then recompose.. also finally the outer points seem to be ok in good light, which I assume most airshows are held in summer and should not be a problem.

So to me you could certainly get away with working around the limitations of the 6D for the occasional use of an airshow, and then the rest of the time the 6D will be much better than the 70D or 7D for ALL your other shots.


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## Woody (Aug 30, 2013)

No need to agonize over this decision. I have both and am a happy camper. So, just get both. 

The 70D does not offer better accuracy than 6D. It all depends on your subject. For your subjects (products, family portraits, architecture, macro, landscapes), you can stick to center AF point on 6D and recompose if you are worried. I use the single axis peripheral AF points on my 6D and have no issues with accuracy (50 f/1.4 lens wide-open). That said, I LOVE the speed and accuracy of live view phase detect AF on my 70D coupled with the awesome touchscreen.

If you want faster fps and deep buffer, 70D is a better choice. Canon sensors offer sufficient dynamic range for my shooting (mostly landscapes and portraits). If you want a big optical viewfinder, then obviously 6D is the solution. However, I never use OVF for manual focusing, expanded view in live view easily beats that.


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## tcmatthews (Aug 30, 2013)

Ruined said:


> I would say neither. 6D likely won't meet your speed, reach, nor autofocus needs. 70D might not meet your image quality needs.
> 
> You might want to wait and see what the 7D MKII brings - apparently being released in next 3-6 months and could bring an improved 24mp APS-C sensor.
> 
> ...



I have a very similar dilemma that I made even more complicated. Last year I destroyed my 60D the 6D was not out yet and I needed a camera. If the 70D was out I would have bought one in a second. But all they announced was the EOS M. 

So I when to Best Buy to check out new cameras the T4i Liveview was a disappointment. The Nikon D600 felt like a box that was to big and my fingers cramped it about 5 seconds. (I think I am allergic to the mid to high end Nikon. I was also surprised they had one it was just announced two days before I went to the store.) I was impressed by the Nex. So I grudgingly I bought a New 60D feeling ripped off. I still feel that the 70D is a year Late. If the 6D came out in early September I would have bought one and been broke and happy.

In the mean time Sony put the Nex 5n on sale and I bought one as a Christmas present for my parents to work with my fathers Canon FD Lens. But I just had to play with it first. I liked it so much I kept his FD lens and bough a Nex 6.

A 6D would work for 80% of my photography needs but fail completely on the other 20%. A 70D would satisfy all of my focus needs but fails at IQ 80% of the time. (I am guessing at this but with the NEX my expectations have increased.) 

I am going to rent a 70D to see if I am correct in my assumption. 

In the mean time download Magic Lantern and have fun. 

I also found that for the 80% of photography that I would use a 6D for I could get by with a NEX when it comes to focus. 

Now I stuck with the choice of: 

Buy a 6D?
Buy a 70D?
Wait for a 7D II?
Buy a new L Lens? 100-400L or 70-200f2.8L 
Buy yet to be announced full frame Nex?
pick two of the above but I can only afford one.

I really want the Sigma Art 35 but if I stay crop the new zoom would replace the need to buy like 3 primes. I want a Tokina 11-16 f2.8 to replace my iffy water damaged Sigma 10-20. So many Choices so little money. 

I still feel tempted to buy a refurbished 6D now that Canon has extended the warranty they are only around $1600 and I have a dead camera to trade in. Regardless I am waiting to see what Sony announces. It would cost to much money to move to Sony for what I want out of my Canon. The Lens are more and not as good. So it looks like I am now stuck using two systems to get what I like.


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## bholliman (Aug 30, 2013)

sarakoth said:


> One thing with airshows.. I assume you will actually be a fair way away.. and while planes move fast, they don't move that fast in relation to you and also they move in a very predictable way. The 6D has the rear button AF lock on, which I used to good effect at a recent track day. I had little problem locking on with the center point on my subject, let the camera track and then press the shutter when the subject was framed how I wanted.. also as far as burst... I was shooting RAW and rarely had a issue.. though you tend to take 4 or 5 pics as the cars go past and that is it.. an airshow I imagine you might well just keep you finger down constantly. I shot a airshow a few years ago with the 500D and the 6D AF is certainly no worse than that.. yes the outer points are not as good as a 7D but the IQ is much better. Also with an airshow I would imagine you take most photos with the planes in the center of the pic? As there is nothing else of context around them?? To me the outer points are for when the scene might be crowded but your main subject is off center.. maybe review you existing photos and see where in the frame the subject is.. also with the distance so far away, with your DOF you can focus using centre point and then recompose.. also finally the outer points seem to be ok in good light, which I assume most airshows are held in summer and should not be a problem.



+1 to your air show comments. I've shot air shows with a 550D, 7D and now 6D and all of them did a nice job. Looking back at the pictures, I have a higher percentage of high quality shots with the 6D (possible my increasing photography experience has something to do with this also).


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## captainkanji (Aug 31, 2013)

Canon 6D, EF 70-200 f/4L USM (cropped a hair in LR)--click image for larger size











Cropped this one a little





I was pretty close to the action. Having a 300 or even a 400 would have been even better.


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## dgatwood (Aug 31, 2013)

There's something mighty disturbing about pictures of planes with the propellers frozen like that. I feel like the next picture is going to show it with the nose stuck in the ground. 

But seriously, nice pics.


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