# How much does a dual-card slot matter?



## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

Grasping to straws if there is any reason for me to get a 5d3 instead of a 5d2 I'd like to get you opinions about the importance of the dual-card slot. Only the 5d3 has it, Nikon puts it even in consumer models like the d7000 which was very appreciated in reviews. The question is: What's it good for?


*Speed:* on the 5d3, that can't be the reason because the sd slot is crippled and much slower than udma7 cf. _Does it make a difference if writing hires jpeg to sd and raw to cf in comparison to writing both to cf like on the 5d2?_


*Reliability:* brides are said to be somewhat grumpy when your no-name budget cf card breaks without jpeg backup on a second card, if you are a high profile shooter this could even ruin your business. The question is: _how large is the likehood of cf/sd cards breaking without being recoverable, and are there differences between brands?_


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## Chewy734 (Jun 30, 2012)

In regards to speed, people have already shown that using a CF and SD card at the same time on the 5D3 slows down the writes to the entire system. In terms of reliability, there is always a chance a CF card can go bad in the middle of a shoot. Have I ever had it happen? No. But, that doesn't mean it _can't_ happen. I believe a second slot is a welcome addition to the 5D series. Whether having that capability is important or not, is kind of a personal decision. I recommend having that safety net for paid shoots, but it might be overkill if all you're doing is taking photos of your dog playing in the yard.

And, I'm glad the 1D X has dual CF slots instead of a mix like the 5D3.


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## TrumpetPower! (Jun 30, 2012)

The speed problem is only a problem if you're writing to the SD card and you fill up the buffer. Once you fill up the buffer, it's a problem, and it doesn't seem to make much of a real-world difference what format you're writing to the SD card...it's going to be painful, no matter what.

That writ, the 5DIII has a deep and fast buffer. With a fast CF card, you can get dozens of (RAW) six-frames-per-second shots before you're slowed to about one frame per second, and it clears out very quickly once it's full. Not that long ago, it would have been the gold standard for sports shooters. With the SD card, you'll still get at least a dozen full-speed shots off before the buffer fills, but you'll be waiting longer for it to clear out.

I've never done a wedding, but I'd be surprised if the speed when recording to SD is a problem for most wedding photographers. And the SD card offers some interesting possibilities for wedding photographers, such as recording JPEGs to it, rating images as you shoot (while you're chimping), and then putting those (rated) JPEGs on display during the reception.

There are lots of reasons why Canon put dual card slots in the replacement for the industry's camera of choice for weddings. There are certainly limitations when using that second slot, and you need to be aware of those limitations, but those limitations are generally quite secondary to the advantages it offers.

Besides, if nothing else, you can use the "switch cards when full" option. Use the CF card as your main card the same way you would use a single-card system. But, if you get careless and fill up the CF card, you can keep shooting, just with a shallower buffer. Better a system with a shallow buffer than a full card.

Cheers,

b&


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## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

TrumpetPower! said:


> And the SD card offers some interesting possibilities for wedding photographers, such as recording JPEGs to it, rating images as you shoot (while you're chimping), and then putting those (rated) JPEGs on display during the reception.



Does rating has anything to do with the sd card slot on the 5d3? Is the rating only applied to jpeg, not to raw (when writing that to the cf slot)? Anyway, I'd be very hesitant to show non-edited but rated pictures to anyone, at least with my kind of shooting experience :-o

If anyone can say anything about cf failure ratings, the possibility of recovering a broken cf card and differences between cf brands I'd be still very interested...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 30, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Grasping to straws if there is any reason for me to get a 5d3 instead of a 5d2 I'd like to get you opinions about the importance of the dual-card slot. Only the 5d3 has it, Nikon puts it even in consumer models like the d7000 which was very appreciated in reviews. The question is: What's it good for?
> 
> 
> *Speed:* on the 5d3, that can't be the reason because the sd slot is crippled and much slower than udma7 cf. _Does it make a difference if writing hires jpeg to sd and raw to cf in comparison to writing both to cf like on the 5d2?_
> ...


 
The value will vary from zero to very high, depending on the user and the potential for loss. High end photographers who spent 100K hiring models, trucks full of lighting, assistants, etc stand to lose a lot of money. They are very careful about backups, and use multiple backups in different locations.

A wedding photographer who does not do something simple like making a backup might be subject to a lawsuit, because its a forseeable event to have a card failure. Even if you put not liable for equipment failure in your contract, you can be sued for negligence, because it might be construed that way.

So, if you don't have dual slots, have a second photographer so that not everything is lost. Legal liabilities different from country to country, and even location to location. 

Another possible solution is to spread your images over multiple cards by changing cards frequently. This means if a card fails or something happens to it, all is not lost. It also increases the odds by a large amount that something will happen to one of your cards.


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## TrumpetPower! (Jun 30, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> TrumpetPower! said:
> 
> 
> > And the SD card offers some interesting possibilities for wedding photographers, such as recording JPEGs to it, rating images as you shoot (while you're chimping), and then putting those (rated) JPEGs on display during the reception.
> ...



The 5DIII has a "rate" button on the left side. Press it once while you're looking at an image, and the picture gets one star in Lightroom / Aperture / Bridge / etc. Press it twice and you get two stars, etc. Obviously, if you were going to use this function at a wedding reception, you'd only press the button for those pictures you wanted to show.

Assuming you have a "look" that's your trademark, you can create a picture style that mimics that look; record RAW to CF and JPEG with the picture style to SD, and those JPEGs may (or may not) be "good enough" to show on a big-screen TV without any further post-processing. Note that the picture style has its own tone curve...if you typically over- or under-expose to reduce shadow noise or preserve highlights, the picture style can apply a similar tone curve as what you do in post.

Google can give you lots of hard information about the reliability of different cards, but Sandisk is pretty much the gold standard with Lexar getting the honorable mention. Card failures in general are rare (unless you do something stupid like step on a card or put it through the laundry). Sandisk has free software you can download to attempt to recover files from a failed card, and it's reportedly saved a lot of bacon -- though, of course, it's not magic and has its limits.

Cheers,

b&


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## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

TrumpetPower! said:


> The 5DIII has a "rate" button on the left side. P



The 60d has the rating function, too, but it's hidden in some menu and not as accessible. On the 60d, you can also play a slideshow with shots above some rating. Is this feature available on the 5d2, too?



TrumpetPower! said:


> Note that the picture style has its own tone curve...if you typically over- or under-expose to reduce shadow noise or preserve highlights, the picture style can apply a similar tone curve as what you do in post.



This certainly is in interesting idea to keep in mind for sometime later along my career (if there will be a sometime later ), because surely if people want to have a quick look at some shots it's better to show them some top rated pictures than to say "nah, I've got to process them first" or show them some random tilted, out of focus shots.



TrumpetPower! said:


> Google can give you lots of hard information about the reliability of different cards



Of course, but how to tell reliable information from viral marketing, sponsored studies or just the normal internet crap? Better ask around here...




Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Another possible solution is to spread your images over multiple cards by changing cards frequently. This means if a card fails or something happens to it, all is not lost. It also increases the odds by a large amount that something will happen to one of your cards.



The question is: Do actual (wedding) photogs with single-card camera bodies use multiple smaller cards to prevent total loss even at the slightly higher chance of partial loss, or is the chance of any loss so small anyway that no one bothers to do it?


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## StanFoxworthy (Jun 30, 2012)

I guess for me, having dual cards makes sense where possible, since this is how I make my living . I usually shoot with the 1Ds MkIII and will normally have the SD card set to take overflow so I don't have to switch cards at an inopportune time (like today; shooting for a new commercial client with a model I have never worked with before)
The other reason I'll run both cards is to have the CF recording RAW and the SD recording JPEG's to add in presentations straight away. There have only been a few times when I'll set both to record RAW, when it's a "once in a lifetime" event. For general shooting and having fun, I wouldn't think it would matter in the least bit. Brand name cards usually don't fail that often. I have always liked shooting with high speed 4 gig CF cards and have recently been forced to move up to 8 gig. I guess it's a bit easier to take if only a $50 card with 153 images goes down vs a $235 card with the whole shoot (not that this has ever happened).

Now if you're talking better AF and 100% viewfinder, that's worth the price of admission for me. I haven't picked up the 5D MkIII yet, as I had hoped the 1DX would have become available by now. Thankfully the 1Ds MkIII & 5D MkII still can crank out a few usable images ;-)


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## SandyP (Jun 30, 2012)

Isn't it sort of logical as to why it would make sense for you or not? It's more useful to "professional" shooters in a sense, or rather some professionals will rely on it more heavily. But it's still useful to anyone, depending on the type of shooting you are doing, and a few other factors. 

I can have instant back up. I can have extra room without ever thinking about switching memory cards. 

For me, that's it. Some people will save JPEG to one and RAW to the other. But I don't. I mostly have it set to either do instant back up of RAW files, or just as an overflow. Both have been extremely nice to have at weddings and at long photo-shoots in the studio or on location.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

StanFoxworthy said:


> Now if you're talking better AF and 100% viewfinder



Can you give me a quick hint why a 100% viewfinder is so important? Because for out-of camera shot presentations? Personally, I often crop my pictures in post anyway and a less than 100% vf gives some margin for framing errors.



SandyP said:


> Isn't it sort of logical as to why it would make sense for you or not?



Of course a usefulness of dual card slots is obvious. However it's not a straight-forward decision for me buying a 5d2 or a 5d3 at double the price I can hardly afford - I wouldn't ask about these things otherwise. If I want to try to get into pro shooting, my earnings will be low at the start for certain, so I have to invest the money I've saved soundly.

There is certainly no single feature on the $3500 (wtf!?!?) 5d3 that would make it "worth it" to me, as far as I read it above also not the dual card slot. The question I have to think about is if all improvements added make it "worth it" or if it's more "worth it" to get a second 600rt and lighting gear.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 30, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> The question is: Do actual (wedding) photogs with single-card camera bodies use multiple smaller cards to prevent total loss even at the slightly higher chance of partial loss, or is the chance of any loss so small anyway that no one bothers to do it?


 

Here are a few articles. There are many opinions on how to make backups, but they all agree, A pro must make backups. Its just a matter of how and when.

http://blog.peterthomasphotography.com/photographer-tips/backup-strategies-for-wedding-photographer/

http://photography.riaanroux.co.za/2012/02/03/does-your-wedding-photographer-have-backups/

http://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/backup-strategy-for-wedding-photographers/

http://www.willamettephoto.com/portland-wedding-photographer/?p=61

http://markhayesphotography.com/2009/08/13/thursday-tips-data-backup-for-wedding-clients/

http://www.ideamarketers.com/?articleid=857327

http://www.peterjosephpictures.com/2011/wedding_backup_plans.html

http://www.weddingventure.com/guide/article/get-a-free-backup-photographer


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## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Here are a few articles.



That's a great help - thanks! You certainly researched that before


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## SandyP (Jun 30, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> StanFoxworthy said:
> 
> 
> > Now if you're talking better AF and 100% viewfinder
> ...



Money is relative. Running a professional photography business is not easy, and it can take years to actually make a living from it. What is "worth it" to anyone really? 

I had the 5D Mark II for three years, and I just recently go the 5D Mark III, and to me, it's worth the money, absolutely. $3500 isn't that much money when you're talking about cameras like this. Sure, it's expensive, but it is worth it for many people. 

-Dual Card slots
-AF system that is like 100 times better. 
-Faster shooting/frames per second
-better movie features
-better high ISO abilities with less noise
-way less color shifting at higher ISOs, this is also very nice. the 5D2 gets pretty gross color shifting at higher ISO
-slightly better image quality at lower ISOs as well with slightly more dynamic range
-more customization for buttons (this is a big deal if you're a full time shooter, definitely a big impact)
-more in camera features
-better AWB
-the customization for things like the AF points and positions, again, big deal
-feels better in the hands, better ergonomics
-silent shutter mode = amazing for many situations. it's VERY quiet. 
-better in camera lens corrections
-again, more customization to specific AF traits
-better jpeg processing (I don't shoot JPEG though, so this doesn't mean anything to me)
-much nicer viewfinder, brighter and can show you more information. Feels more "clear", which is nice, especially coming from shooting lots of medium format with film. Those viewfinders are gorgeous compared to most digital ones.
-the 100% viewfinder is nice, actually knowing the exact edges of your frame is excellent. I'd rather get the shot JUST right in camera than need to crop. 
-faster response time to pressing shutter button
-better weather sealing
-tracking is much better, not only because of the crazy good AF system, but SERVO is definitely improved
more in camera features, again, like the rate button and further button customization. 


I have the SET button changed to switch ISO with the top wheel. So now I can switch ISO, shutter speed and aperture in less than mere seconds without taking the camera away from my face, in intense situations this is extremely powerful. I have the (better placed than the 5D2 for sure!) DOF button set to switch from ONE SHOT to AI SERVO, again, without doing any movements or taking the camera away I can easily switch, which is amazing for action and things like weddings or concerts. 

I back button focus, which feels slightly better now too because of the camera body being nicer in the hands. switching between AF points is nicer now too. And I can toggle through the AF zones perfectly now. As well, I have it set so that when the camera is horizontal there is a different AF point selected than when the camera is vertical. This is also amazing for many situations. Very handy feature for lots of shooting situations, indeed. 

The list of customizable things goes on and on and on! I spent nearly 2 hours tweaking and changing my 5D3 when I got it. And it's made for a powerful shooting experience. 



Did I do tons of jobs with my 5D2? Yes. Did it always help me produce amazing photos? Yes. But that still doesn't change the fact that the 5D3 is vastly superior in many ways when you're looking at it from a different view point. It depends on what you're going to do with it. If you're shooting landscapes all day, then it's not going to matter. But for lots of people (weddings, concerts, documentary, portraits, sports, journalism) the choice is a little less clear because it really depends on you. I'll keep my 5D2 as a back up, but after shooting a few jobs and weddings with the 5D3, I can easily say that YES, it is worth it for me.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 30, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Here are a few articles.
> ...


 
Whatever backup system you use, its a selling point to a bride who is or should be worried about getting those photos. I'd even include it in a brochure if you have one, telling them how you reduce the likelyhood of losing those "priceless" images.

A dual slot camera body might justify a higher selling price for your services, just as having a backup photographer is going to cost more.

Its certainly something to make known, with all the Craigslist amateurs selling low cost services and having no clue about security of the images.


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## SandyP (Jun 30, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Exactly. This is also why most professional wedding photographers (who actually know what they're doing) will shoot with two bodies, and also have a 2nd shooter there as well. As well as (of course) backing everything up, religiously. It only makes sense.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

SandyP said:


> Exactly. This is also why most professional wedding photographers (who actually know what they're doing) will shoot with two bodies, and also have a 2nd shooter there as well.



Well, I'll have two bodies of course, but I think clients can hardly expect a 2nd shooter if they don't want to pay a noticeable premium...



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its certainly something to make known, with all the Craigslist amateurs selling low cost services and having no clue about security of the images.



Hey, that's me  ... but really: everybody has to start somewhere.

But since I come from the IT biz, I know a lot about data security, but until now I didn't realize it could be such a selling point - as you know, your general computer user is very ignorant about backups and might not want to pay a premium for it when hiring a photog. 

Maybe it's really different with weddings, but every wedding photog's site I looked at raved about great dreamy shots and much experience of the shooter, but few said something about equipment and no one said something about data security. On the other hand, if you advertise it, you have to deliver or might have pay a huge contract penalty?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 30, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Maybe it's really different with weddings, but every wedding photog's site I looked at raved about great dreamy shots and much experience of the shooter, but few said something about equipment and no one said something about data security. On the other hand, if you advertise it, you have to deliver or might have pay a huge contract penalty?


 
Certainly, you are selling based on skills and the shots you get, but a bride should worry about the possibiliity of not getting those priceless shots, and you can subtly educate her. Then, if she looks for a lower priced shooter, she will have that information in her mind and likely ask.

"All the wonderful images and skills mean nothing if a card fails, is lost or destroyed, but do not worry, because we have a exact duplicate of every image made at the exact time the image is captured!"


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> StanFoxworthy said:
> 
> 
> > Now if you're talking better AF and 100% viewfinder
> ...



So, you sometimes cut off a foot or hand at the edge of the frame as you compose a shot in the VF, and rely on the slightly larger real image area to correct that error? Hmmm...I also know people who set their watch 5 minutes fast to help them be punctual. 

In the film days, a somewhat less than 100% VF was ok, because in general, photo labs cropped the negatives a bit during printing. 

Personally, I'm a huge fan of WYSIWYG - that's what a 100% VF gives you.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I also know people who set their watch 5 minutes fast to help them be punctual.


 
Some of us old guys used to use wind up watches where 5 minutes accuracy a day was the norm. Set your watch every morning, or be late for class! Fortunately, we had electric clocks connected to the power lines that kept near perfect time, so we could use them. If the power went out, there was a time service on the telephone, or the radio (we did not have television until 1956).


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## Marsu42 (Jun 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> So, you sometimes cut off a foot or hand at the edge of the frame as you compose a shot in the VF, and rely on the slightly larger real image area to correct that error?



I never had the idea of the "safety margin" until I read that some people inc. pros think it's convenient and they're not that set on 100% vf.

For me, I wouldn't call it "rely", but it is convenient. Often, I find myself not cropping the picture, but rotating it a bit esp. on macro shots, and this cuts quite a lot from the sides. If it was for me, there would be the option for an even larger safety margin, but the default crop would be to the wysiwyg viewfinder picture - better safe than sorry. But I'll try to get more experienced :-o 



neuroanatomist said:


> Hmmm...I also know people who set their watch 5 minutes fast to help them be punctual.



Tried that, doesn't work .. you unconsciously substract the 5min after a short time, so you set it 10min fast and so on


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## SandyP (Jul 1, 2012)

It's actually the photographers duty to budget and hire a 2nd/backup shooter. Most really good ones have one or two people they prefer to work with. I have two people that I will ask when I'm shooting, I know someone that asks ME to 2nd shoot for them all year for all their stuff. Part of the business plan, if not, I'd seriously doubt how seriously you take this!


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## Marsu42 (Jul 1, 2012)

SandyP said:


> Part of the business plan, if not, I'd seriously doubt how seriously you take this!



I'm taking this very seriously, that's all the question fuss is about. But afaik at the start of a business plan it's not "spend €10000 for equipment, hire two paid people and then get €250 for a full day wedding to divide up". There has to be some sane investment-cost-income relation, or *else* I wouldn't be serious about it and broke in no time.

As you know the core camera equipment is only one part, the other is misc gear for lighting, cases, tripods, decent clothes ... and then I'll have to do advertising and so on and be able to bridge the first time when clients won't queue up to hire me.

Like it or not, I'm not at your level (yet), and also have to be competitive via the price. And paying less than the for the seasoned photog next door also means some tradeoffs for clients - but some will like this if it's about the budget decision "me, no pro photog at all or uncle joe with his p&s".


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## wockawocka (Jul 1, 2012)

I always shoot with two cards and haven't noticed a write speed issue.

What is of absolute paramount importance to me is the ability to write to two cards at once though.
I would pay probably 50% more for a camera with dual card slots. It's that important to me.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 1, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> What is of absolute paramount importance to me is the ability to write to two cards at once though. I would pay probably 50% more for a camera with dual card slots. It's that important to me.



Why's that? Because of the added reliability and protection against a faulty card, user errors (i.e. you deleting stuff by accident), or because you give the second card to clients right away?


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## wockawocka (Jul 1, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > What is of absolute paramount importance to me is the ability to write to two cards at once though. I would pay probably 50% more for a camera with dual card slots. It's that important to me.
> ...



In case one card fails. That's the only reason.

For me the business I'm in there's generally no retakes. Whilst card failure is rare it does happen. I'd rather not have it happen to me. Two cards reduces the chances of this happening to almost zero.

If I lose one wedding that's $1500. The law of averages mean I will get a card failure at one point in the future I'd rather put that money into a camera with dual slots.

It may seem a bit paranoid but it's one of those overlooked and preventable things that will bite you on the ass.
I run 2 x 128gb cards as well. So it's even more important to me. With seperate cards there is more chance of losing a card than card failure itself.


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## Halfrack (Jul 1, 2012)

There are only 2 cameras that have SD and MFA - the 1dmk4 and the 5dmk3. The only thing I wish was that you could set it up to write every other to the specific cards.

If you're shooting something and want to send folks home with something, it's much cheaper to do it via SD. Toss in EyeFi doesn't do CF, and there's a reason to have both is solid.


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## SandyP (Jul 3, 2012)

Yes, being able to write to a 2nd card is extremely safe and extremely useful. It's something that we have been missing on a 5D series camera for.. well.... since the 5D existed.

And truthfully, being a wedding photographer... it takes years to get established in any meaningful way. If you're lucky, only a year or two. But you should really be taking a year or two to 2nd shoot weddings to really get your style developed and sharpen your skills. This will also let you slowly upgrade your lenses and gear to a better point. It will also let you figure out, over time, what you truly need to do your job. Everyone is different. 

I bought my 5D2 the first month or two after it came out, along with a 70-200 and a 27-40, it was a huge mistake, because I ended up selling both zooms and replacing them with primes. If I would have taken my own advice..... I would have done the right thing the first time around and just stuck it out.


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## RLPhoto (Jul 3, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Grasping to straws if there is any reason for me to get a 5d3 instead of a 5d2 I'd like to get you opinions about the importance of the dual-card slot. Only the 5d3 has it, Nikon puts it even in consumer models like the d7000 which was very appreciated in reviews. The question is: What's it good for?
> 
> 
> *Speed:* on the 5d3, that can't be the reason because the sd slot is crippled and much slower than udma7 cf. _Does it make a difference if writing hires jpeg to sd and raw to cf in comparison to writing both to cf like on the 5d2?_
> ...



I've always shot Raw+Small Basic JPG so I can have a small backup files if the RAW was corrupted for some reason and to have a quick thumbnail for reference.

I'd probably use the SD slot for my Small JPG's and the CF for Large RAW's. It should buffer quickly because the Small JPG's are only a few hundred KB's.

As for finding a reason to upgrade to the MK3, If your MK2 is doing you justice, Wait until the MK4 is released. ;D


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## awinphoto (Jul 3, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> StanFoxworthy said:
> 
> 
> > Now if you're talking better AF and 100% viewfinder
> ...



Knowing where your image is going to be cropped is vital in the professional world... Lets say you're shooting for a magazine cover... you are framing not only your subject, but allowing extra room for copy and title tags, maybe even a mailer box and whatever the magazine requires... I also shot for a pro sports photog and knowing the space you have around the subject is vital in knowing how much room he has to add his crop or add his optional software frames/etc to upsell the client... Of course you can always shoot wider than normal and crop later, but then you lose wasted data and having the biggest file possible is the best case situation in all applications. When shooting for real estate and architecture shots, i've been in tight rooms where we were using 16mm lenses (equivalent on FF) and a big honking bed in the room... With a 96% coverage, the bed would sometimes crop down to the bottom of the frame, and you had to shoot, check, and adjust to see if the extra 4% bought you space you needed or not... Sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn't, and in those situations, fisheye wasn't going to give us the look we wanted, so sometimes it really is that crucial and while some cropping may be inevitable given what you are shooting and how you shoot it, having the best possible product to use and knowing right away if you got the shot framed 100% or not can be the difference of resetting up your shot or not on large production shots.


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 3, 2012)

You have to have dual card slots OR a backup photographer. I have been out just shooting whatever when I was bored and my CF card failed for no reason. However, I just switched the SDHC card in slot 2 and continued on. At a wedding this would not be good at all, if it happened without a backup card slot or a 2nd shooter. You could of course replace the card quickly, which I think if you had a 5D Mark II and were the only shooter, you'd have to be ready to do. Put the extra cards in your pocket.


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## Pixel_crab (Jul 3, 2012)

Or let's put it more simply:

If you do not have enough space, a card failure... What would be the widest card to be found in stores?

SD cards.

It is a common consumer good, which you can find in virtually any large shop or mall. A CF card is quite specific.
You may go to a music shop and find a SD card, but you're not sure to find a CF, ditto for a supermarket or any non-camera-specific area.
Many people use SD card in point & shoot or other cameras.

If you travel a lot and need to be operationnal easily therefore a dual SD/ CF card is the right option.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 4, 2012)

SandyP said:


> And truthfully, being a wedding photographer... it takes years to get established in any meaningful way. If you're lucky, only a year or two. But you should really be taking a year or two to 2nd shoot weddings to really get your style developed and sharpen your skills.



Thanks for the warning, I do realize that and am calculating at least 1.5 years before I can see how much potential there is for me in the wedding biz and if I could generate my income from this. Still, everybody has to start somewhere...

As for being 2nd shooter, this is hardly my choice but more the matter of potential 1st shooters: There will be many applicants, and as far as I read it people aren't very excited about educating their future competition in the first place. So it might just be I'll have to try this on my own, might take a friend as a backup shooter along for the first contracts.

Concerning "style": I appreciate the idea and am rather particular about my pictures, but as far as I understand it for your average lower-paid wedding "style" hasn't got anything to do with it, but rather taking shots of happy people and the critical moments. That might be different if you want to try to get away earning $1000+ from a shot...



bdunbar79 said:


> You have to have dual card slots OR a backup photographer. I have been out just shooting whatever when I was bored and my CF card failed for no reason.



Hargnnnnn... I'd really hate to pay $3500 for a camera body, but still "better safe than sorry". Were you able to recover the files from the failed cf card?


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## briansquibb (Jul 4, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> SandyP said:
> 
> 
> > And truthfully, being a wedding photographer... it takes years to get established in any meaningful way. If you're lucky, only a year or two. But you should really be taking a year or two to 2nd shoot weddings to really get your style developed and sharpen your skills.
> ...



You could adopt a PJ style which is the way I do it for most of the reception photos. I always get a 'formal' pose with the B&G and the top groups where I know the lighting will be good, the focus will the perfect . Once these are in the bag I then change cards ....

It is so easy to get carried away with the artistic image when the clients just want the content perfect.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 4, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> You could adopt a PJ style which is the way I do it for most of the reception photos. I always get a 'formal' pose with the B&G and the top groups where I know the lighting will be good, the focus will the perfect . Once these are in the bag I then change cards ....
> 
> It is so easy to get carried away with the artistic image when the clients just want the content perfect.



I've been advised to do the same to be on the safe side concerning "important" shots - but changing the cards is an additional safety factor for sure.

Concerning "artistic": I recon there have to be at least one or two of this kind to be posted on the website, so the photog can make everybody else believe that all shots are like this


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 4, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> SandyP said:
> 
> 
> > And truthfully, being a wedding photographer... it takes years to get established in any meaningful way. If you're lucky, only a year or two. But you should really be taking a year or two to 2nd shoot weddings to really get your style developed and sharpen your skills.
> ...



It will tell you if it fails. If it fails, then switch cards quickly. That's what I did with my 5D Mark II. It will give you an error. When the error pops up, switch cards.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 4, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> It will tell you if it fails. If it fails, then switch cards quickly. That's what I did with my 5D Mark II. It will give you an error. When the error pops up, switch cards.



So all previous shots on the failed card were ok except the one when the error occurred? I imagined if the cf fails, then it's really gone and wouldn't be recognized anymore (just happened to an usb stick of mine).


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 4, 2012)

No, my card reader at home was able to recover the files for some reason. It just wouldn't continue on writing to the card. The part of the card that recorded images is ok, it's the capacity beyond that that will not work. You could format a bad card and still shoot, say 56 photos, and then it fails again. At least that's what all of my failed cards did. Then I got smart and buy all SanDisk Pro 32GB CF cards, UDMA 7, 90 Mb/s and haven't had much trouble since.


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## Philco (Jul 4, 2012)

From a wedding photography perspective, having never had the second card slot option on my previous 5D's and 5DII's, I see more value in affording two bodies going into your career than I do in spending the same money on the 5DIII alone. Now that I've gotten used to the 5DIII, I definitely prefer it for the way it handles and the color it produces, but I literally had to sell two 5DII's to get one. That being said, I've always shot with a body on each shoulder and I've never missed a shot due to card errors anyway. In a sudden 'oh-crap' moment I could always swap a card from the other body much faster than swapping lenses. Paying attention to how many shots are on your card leading up to important moments is part of the job anyway. 

Someone mentioned shooting the whole day on a pair of 128GB cards, which I think is smart in terms of redundancy,
but there can also be drawbacks to not spreading the day out over several cards, if for instance your body is stolen at the end of the night ( It happened to one of my colleagues at a high-end venue...1DmkIII) then all of your pictures are gone. Odds are low, so I guess it all comes down to what we perceive to be the bigger risks.


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## briansquibb (Jul 4, 2012)

Philco said:


> Paying attention to how many shots are on your card leading up to important moments is part of the job anyway.



I change cards on both at fixed, planning points through the day - like after the ceremony, after the cake cutting.

I get away with 16gb cards that way - high speed aren't really needed most of the time, it isn't as if you are sitting on the shutter much.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 4, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> I get away with 16gb cards that way - high speed aren't really needed most of the time, it isn't as if you are sitting on the shutter much.



Good advice, I'll try that, too - for an amateur, a larger card might be more convenient, but with fixed points to change smaller card's I'd feel a lot safer.



Philco said:


> From a wedding photography perspective, having never had the second card slot option on my previous 5D's and 5DII's, I see more value in affording two bodies going into your career than I do in spending the same money on the 5DIII alone.



I've got my 60d camera and am going to buy some 5d - does that count as "two bodies" for you, tough not both are ff? I've gotten really used to the 60d and Magic Lantern, and as a second body with a faster lens even the crop sensor should do ok, or at least that's what I hope.

But shooting with two single-card bodies (60d+5d2) doesn't help for data redundancy if I shoot with the 5d2 most of the time and this card crashes. I've a Sandisc 32gb in my 60d, have shot 80k shots & video and it hasn't failed me yet - but still I'm getting a little paranoid reading other photog's experiences, and Murphy's Law dictates that it'll at the worst possible moment.


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 4, 2012)

If those two cameras were available when I began photography, that would have been my setup. My main would have been a 5D Mark II and my backup a 60D. No second thoughts.


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## RGomezPhotos (Jul 5, 2012)

The BIG reason I'm getting the 5DMKIII over the 5DMKII is because of the SD slot.

I am a professional and largely shoot beauty work in well let conditions using manual focus lenses. So all the tech. advances of the MKIII don't mean much to me. Picture quality isn't any better in the MKII in the ISO range I shoot in. 

But being able to shoot and view images on another device wirelessly in real-time without using that overpriced MKII WiFi option would be super. Once you buy that option you're almost at the cost of the MKIII. And now that the SD Standards organization is going to have wireless as part of their standard, prices will come down and options/performance will go up for these accessories. PQI is coming out with a SD-WIFI card WITH a microSD card slot! So now you can have your backup AND another backup if you send it to an iPad and not tax your system.

Now that prices are coming down for the MKIII, I'm okay with the premium of the MKIII. I think it's the best all-around camera out there without spending double for a 1Dx. Certainly capable of any professional requirements I'll throw at it for the next 3 - 4 years.


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## Philco (Jul 5, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> I've got my 60d camera and am going to buy some 5d - does that count as "two bodies" for you, tough not both are ff? I've gotten really used to the 60d and Magic Lantern, and as a second body with a faster lens even the crop sensor should do ok, or at least that's what I hope.



I shot for almost a year with a 5D+30D combo and it worked out fine, though I usually had a gap in focal length between the two bodies that was just another thing to deal with. Plus, looking through the 30D felt like shooting through a keyhole compared to the FF viewfinder. I think the crop+FF has advantages though, at least in terms of reach. My point was really more about the SD slot being worth the extra money if the other features ( already well enumerated in this post) aren't your main concern. I personally have yet to buy any SD cards to use in that slot, though I've shot 4 or 5 weddings, which I realize is foolish considering I have that option.


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