# weird "grid lines" in 5DII pictures



## EyesOnly (Dec 24, 2011)

I just got a refurbished 5DII and was looking at my first couple of pictures I took. They show very weird lines instead of the normal grain all over the image. 

Did anyone ever see this before? What is causing this?

I've all setting on default basically and used multiple lenses with the same results. In 100% view I can clearly see the lines and even after converting to JPEG with Photoshop (ACR) they are still there.

I attached a 200% crop from Photoshop and a 100% from the saved JPG.


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## photogaz (Dec 24, 2011)

Looks like there's something seriously wrong with it.

Can you post a RAW file?


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## PeterJ (Dec 24, 2011)

I can't open the attachments for some reason, but looking at the first crop I certainly can't think of any setting problem that would give that effect. Apart from the camera being faulty it could be worth trying a different CF card if you have one, or at least try re-seating it. I've never seen those symptoms with a camera in particular but could imagine a faulty address line on the memory bus or card giving that kind of effect.

Edit - just thought to add, do you get the same in live view at 10x zoom? That would take memory card problems out of the equation. Memory card not so likely after further thought because RAW has lossless compression I believe so the lines wouldn't correspond to memory areas throughout.


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## motorhead (Dec 24, 2011)

I've got many images with that same square pattern in even tones. Generally its where the image was under exposed and has needed pushing in post processing, typical examples would be early morning shots with mist rising and red sunrise etc, where the light levels were very low and I've tweaked too much. Many of the Salisbury Cathedral shots in the same series as those I've put on my zenfolio site have exacly that problem.

I have never seen it on so called "correct" exposures, whatever they are. So unless you are seeing it on every image, I'd not worry about it.


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## traveller (Dec 24, 2011)

Sorry, I've never noticed this effect before... My guess is that it's either some sort of jpeg artifact (try processing a raw file), or a diffraction pattern (what f-stop was this picture taken at?). I know that old box brownie images often showned this "fishnet" look (caused by diffraction), but you could see it in the actual print; you crop looks like you're zoomed in to well over 100%. Can you see this effect at lower magnifications? If not, then I wouldn't worry about it.


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## motorhead (Dec 24, 2011)

I can say that its definitely not a jpeg artifact. I'm certain of that because I only shoot in RAW format.


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## alipaulphotography (Dec 24, 2011)

What resolution are you shooting in? They look like pixels to me....


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## MazV-L (Dec 24, 2011)

Vaguely remember coming across some info. on this about 2yrs ago on the net when I was trying to decide between 5Dii or used 5D, I decided on the latter because some of the early 5Diis were having this sort of a problem.


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## EyesOnly (Dec 24, 2011)

I'll try to cover all your questions:

HERE is a CR2 RAW file from on of the pictures.
I always shoot in regular RAW mode, 21MP.
Tried to reseat the CF card without success.
I get the same bad result when shooting with EOS Utility (transferring directly over USB).
The lines do not appear in live view with 10x magnification for some reason.

The point is that I can see this pattern in 100% view on most pictures and even after saving as JPG. This is really annoying. I just want a nice 5DII to shoot with, but not something like this. :'(


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## trulandphoto (Dec 24, 2011)

I just ran your RAW through DPP and saved as jpg and it looks fine at 100% and 200%. I'd guess it's a PP issue maybe your downsizing? I could try lightroom and see what it looks like.

Update: I've tried different software and can't duplicate your problem. RAW and all jpgs are fine.


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## EyesOnly (Dec 24, 2011)

Well this is what I get from DPP. Still clearly visible lines.


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## EyesOnly (Dec 24, 2011)

Of course there's a limitation somewhere, but I've never seen this before on any other camera. And to be honest, my Rebel XSi makes better pictures than the 5D at this point. If I look at the 200% crops from the XSi there is normal grain, but it has much less contrast and is random, not in this grid style.
Do you use a 5DII? Does it look the same? I basically want to find out if this is a common behavior or if it's just my camera.


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## motorhead (Dec 24, 2011)

I also disagree about it being normal grain.

I've just opened DPP and opened a RAW unprocessed image which I magnified to 200%. Trust me there is absolutely no sign of the squared off lines that the OP and I see. Grain there certainly is, but its random in appearance.

I repeat, the only time I see it is in images that for whatever reason have been incorrectly exposed and then an attempt in post-processing made to correct for the mistake.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 24, 2011)

I opened the file in Lightroom, and something is definitely wrong, nothing like images from my 5D MK II. you can see the grid at normal viewing size, no need to go to 1:1

However, it is not the original RAW file, it is a TIFF file, so something could be wrong with the conversion.

Here is what I see after opening the Tiff file in Lightroom 3 with no adjustments.


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## EyesOnly (Dec 24, 2011)

If I try to download it, it also says TIFF, but I uploaded a CR2 file. I think it's just a browser thing. You can save it as CR2. And no matter what if I open it, ACR comes up, so it's RAW data.


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## lol (Dec 24, 2011)

I just tried it in ACR6.6 (Elements version) and DxO7.1. Both give the grid pattern easily visible at 200%+. Coincidently I was just trying out my new 5D2 today, and in a quick look mine doesn't give that pattern.

My gut feel from seeing it is there's something wrong with the de-mosaicing during raw conversion, but as different software shows it, maybe it is something about the camera RAW output?

So some random diagnostic thoughts: download and re-install the latest firmware. Reset the camera to defaults and then see if it is still there.


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## EyesOnly (Dec 24, 2011)

I updated the firmware from 2.0.9 to 2.1.1 and cleared all settings. I don't see any improvement with the issue though.

I guess I'll have to contact Canon and ship it back


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## DavidRiesenberg (Dec 24, 2011)

There's definitely something wrong. Tried with both ACR and DPP and while it's not the same, the grid is nevertheless visible in both, especially when sharpening is cranked up. NR can take care of most of it, but that's not a real solution. I have never seen anything like this before.


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## EyesOnly (Dec 25, 2011)

Thanks David for the comparison. I did the same thing with sharpening and details and it looked very suspicous to me too.

Would it be better to get a new one and send it back to Canon without asking for a replacement, or should the refurbished cameras in general be flawless?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 25, 2011)

EyesOnly said:


> Thanks David for the comparison. I did the same thing with sharpening and details and it looked very suspicous to me too.
> 
> Would it be better to get a new one and send it back to Canon without asking for a replacement, or should the refurbished cameras in general be flawless?



It depends on what you paid. right now, new ones are the same price as the refurbs (which are out of stock), so I'd go for a new one. Maybe Canon will exchange it for a new one, you can ask.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 25, 2011)

I've seen this before but only on a 1D mk1 and only when an underexposed image is pushed


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 25, 2011)

Did you try a different memory card? That is a remote possibility that should not be overlooked.


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## justsomedude (Dec 25, 2011)

To the OP, I had a similar pattern noise issue this past summer with my 7D, which was severe vertical striping. See my post on it at DPReview, here (image included at link)...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=39424620

The body had been back to Canon Irvine numerous times for this issue (in addition to repeated AF issues), with only "electrical adjustments" being listed as work done on my service reports, and Canon service reporting that the body was within normal performance specifications. After this (intermittent) noise issue cropped up again in late September, I sent my 7D into the Irvine facility again with sample prints and a very sternly worded letter that the issue was not fixed, that I assumed a faulty sensor was at play, and that I demanded a complete repair or a full replacement body.

My repairs with Canon usually take less than 10 business days door to door. Interestingly, this trip was exactly 3 weeks door to door - the longest turn around I've ever had with Irvine. Maybe it was a seasonal issue, but I'm assuming more work was being done on my camera. This was confirmed when my camera arrived and I read the service report. It was EXTREMELY vague, but in a nutshell it said something along the lines of, "testing was done and it was determined that a faulty internal component was producing noise in images. The internal component was replaced."

This was the first time in my 7D's seven visits to Canon that an actual part was replaced. I'm assuming the sensor was swapped out, but I'll never really know. If your noise issues persist, I'd suggest sending the body into Irvine with image samples, and a firm letter demanding concrete results.

Best of luck.


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## EyesOnly (Dec 25, 2011)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Did you try a different memory card? That is a remote possibility that should not be overlooked.



I'd like to, but I only have one at the moment. The fact that I get the same results from EOS Utility which does not use the CF card makes me think that the issue is somewhere else though.


@justsomedude: Thanks for the information. I'll call Canon and see what the best approach to get this fixed will be.


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## tron (Dec 26, 2011)

I would suggest that if it is possible play it safe return the camera, get your money back and get a new one.
Otherwise you are running the risk of worrying whether this issue will reappear some time in the future.


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## Caps18 (Dec 26, 2011)

That doesn't look right at all.

If you have the camera create Raw and Jpeg photos, is it in both?

What lens are you using? (not that I think that would be the problem)


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## motorhead (Dec 26, 2011)

I've not shown any of my shots and I feel I should show you that this issue is not the OP's alone. Here I've got two completely untouched CR2 RAW's, untouched that is except for a reduction to 800 pixels maximum and a jpeg conversion for this site, I've done nothing else to the image.

The pixels seem to be clumping into 64 pixel boxes which creates the odd squared off patterning.


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## tron (Dec 27, 2011)

Well, as I have already said, I would return the camera ASAP (and discuss later: Just like saying Shoot first, ask questions later!)

This is not normal at all and it has nothing to do with lens (of course) and memory card (since you mentioned
using the EOS utility to get the picture).


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## dr croubie (Dec 27, 2011)

I've definitely seen something like this before.

On my ex-gf's first camera, a 2MP point+shoot thingy, she used it in the rain too much, and from then on all the photos taken in bright sunlight all ended up looking like the one i've attached, way too blue and with the weird grid-lines all over the shop.
Indoors, and with lower-light it was fine though, which made it even weirder. I had a few theories about whether it was a white-balance and/or over-exposure problem, but never managed to fix it. In her case, the solution was to just get a new one, i'd be recommending that you do the same as soon as possible...


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## EyesOnly (Dec 27, 2011)

Caps18 said:


> That doesn't look right at all.
> 
> If you have the camera create Raw and Jpeg photos, is it in both?
> 
> What lens are you using? (not that I think that would be the problem)



I don't see this issue in JPEG pictures somehow, but they are not really sharp and don't reveal all the detail in the picture. Also, who buys a 5D to shoot JPEG? 
I use the 16-35 II and 24-70.

Canon provided me with a RMA# and I'll return as soon as they email me the shipping label. I'll get the purchase price refunded as they don't offer direct exchange. I'd have to re-order which doesn't make a lot of sense when looking at the Adorama deal for $1989.

Thanks again everyone for all your input.


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## UncleFester (Dec 27, 2011)

I can't believe that Canon spends very much time with any of these "refurbished" products before they send them out. We want to believe that they run all these critical tests before it's released to the consumer but that's just not very productive in such large companies. Aren't these the same guys that smash piles of defective bodies and lenses with big hammers.

More likely, when a refurbed 5D or 7D or 60 gets back to Canon, they just toss it in a corner and continue with bigger things, like grape jelly doughnuts.

I'd give them one shot at fixing it or unleash the wrath of Satan. 

Or call Joe Pesci.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrrkPHPwVfo


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## dr croubie (Dec 27, 2011)

UncleFester said:


> I can't believe that Canon spends very much time with any of these "refurbished" products before they send them out. We want to believe that they run all these critical tests before it's released to the consumer but that's just not very productive in such large companies.



Their repair departments aren't much better, I sent my months-old 7D back for dead-pixels 3 times in a row, the first they never even checked their work because the image-numbering was the same as before. The second they'd at least checked their work because the image-numbering was different, but there was still a nice bright white dot right in the centre of the screen. Third time I drew them a map to show them where all the dead pixels were and they got it right eventually. 7 weeks without a camera though, sigh. (and now the dead pixels are back, and it's not under warranty, double sigh)


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## UncleFester (Dec 27, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> UncleFester said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe that Canon spends very much time with any of these "refurbished" products before they send them out. We want to believe that they run all these critical tests before it's released to the consumer but that's just not very productive in such large companies.
> ...



It's almost a better option to just put a defective cam in the microwave and fry it and take the chance on getting an entirely new cam (while under warranty, of course).

BTW, in your case you may want to track down a Canon rep and see if they'll honor a free repair for your trouble.


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## niccyboy (Dec 27, 2011)

I had a similar thing with my first two 7ds, but where yours is more of a grid, mine was horizontal only... i sent them both back and both times they replaced the whole sensor assembly.... I think it was more a case of they didn't know what it was so they just pulled the guts out.

Either way looks like your camera has some demons!... I'd jump ship, sell it off and buy another, or take it to canon!

Good luck


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