# New Tilt-Shifts in 2013? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 29, 2012)

```
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<strong>New Tilt-Shift lenses in 2013?


</strong>The 45mm and 90mm tilt-shifts have been on the replacement cycle for a while now, probably since the day after the 17mm and latest 24mm tilt-shifts were announced a few years ago.</p>
<p>Apparently we’re going to see a new 45mm and 90mm tilt-shift announced in 2013. Both of the lenses will receive the “L” treatment and the updated movement mechanisms. I would like to see the lock knobs built a bit better, I found them to be unreliable in the rental world and they are quite an expensive repair.</p>
<p>Also coming in 2013?  A new “specialist lens”. I’m not completely sure what would be considered a specialist lens, although a new macro would probably fit the bill.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_new_lenses.html" target="_blank">NL</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Deeohuu (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll pre-order both the minute I can. 

The 17 and 24 are my first choice for anything in their range and I see a lot of situations the 90 would be perfect but I can't bring myself to buy the current 90 after experiencing the convenience of the 17 and 24's independent movement.


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## kirispupis (Jul 29, 2012)

My guess is if tilt-shift lenses are not considered "specialist", then they mean a new MP-E 65. A while back there was a new patent for one posted, so Canon at least has this in mind.

If Canon did release these lenses, I would immediately line up for the new MP-E 65. This is one of my favorite and most used lenses. I'm not sure what they would do to it though. Perhaps improve the resolution at 5x? The MP-E 65 certainly is the most versatile lens in this range out there, but it is not the sharpest. A Nikon 10x 10.5 WD on top of a 100mm macro will beat it in resolution. If they could somehow increase the magnification while still keeping a good resolution, that would be even better.

I have the TS-E 24 II, TS-E 17, and TS-E 90 and would only replace the TS-E 90 if they did something like increase the magnification to .5x like the Nikon. The TS-E 45 may be something I would look at replacing later. The current 45 isn't so great and I have considered picking up the Schneider 50 but it is a bit pricy.

Ideally though I would love it if they wait until 2014. I am still trying to save for a big telephoto and am a bit glad that Canon does not have any other lenses out right now that I want.


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## Cannon Man (Jul 29, 2012)

Finally some good news! I was just talking about this to my photog friends 2 days ago.
I was taking a walk with my 50 1.2 and i was bummed almost every time i looked through the viewfinder that a new TS-E 45 is not out yet.

The new TS-E 24 3.5L II is one of my favorite lenses and i don't want to get the older make versions of the 45 and 90 now when they're 21yrs old!!

Hope to get CR3 about this within a year!


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 29, 2012)

I had the mk1 24mm and was reasonably happy with it, the independant movements on the mark 2 made it an eminently more usable lens, especially as a lot of 24 users had done the home mod to realign the tilt and shift.

The 90mm seems to be more a product lens, and so not of interest to me personally, a new 45mm could be nice, although it would be a rental jobbie for me this time round.


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 29, 2012)

The EF 90mm f/2.8 TS-E is the sharpest lens that Canon makes. Please, please, please don't DOWNGRADE it to a "L" lens. All the Red Ring will do is raise the price, it certainly won't improve the optics.


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## Random Orbits (Jul 29, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> The EF 90mm f/2.8 TS-E is the sharpest lens that Canon makes. Please, please, please don't DOWNGRADE it to a "L" lens. All the Red Ring will do is raise the price, it certainly won't improve the optics.



It would be nice to have that extra rotation between the tilt and shift elements like they have on the 17 and 24mm versions.


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## dafrank (Jul 29, 2012)

CD Embry: +1. I agree about the sharpness of the 90 TS-E, one of my favorite Canon lenses. While the sharpness would be very hard to improve, they might make it focus closer, apply their more recent and better lens coatings plus the independent movements of both axes, as in the recent 24 and 17mm lenses.

The 90 TSE is almost perfect as it is, with the possible exceptions of the suggestions as listed above. But, they could really hit the mark by adding to the TSE line for product shooters, by making either a 135mm, 150mm, or 180mm TSE as well. This could be the other "specialist lens" mentioned. It would be perfect, especially the 135 or 150, for products that required some distance from the camera to make perspective look more normal, which the 90 barely does in some cases, not in others. To shoot a low front 7/8 view of a car, for instance, looks a heck of a lot more natural (i.e., the front end doesn't look quite as exaggerated in size compared to the rear) and just plain better, with a lens longer than 90mm. A longer TSE would complete the set for product and other types of photographers who would then have almost all the lenses with almost all the tilt and shift functions they needed to function as did their old 4x5" and 8x10" view camera set-ups in the film era - a great advantage for Canon over even medium format competition. Finally, if the much rumored studio-centered cam with very high megapixel capacity came out about the same time, that would further seal the deal for many commercial professionals who now are still somewhat married to the necessity to maintain various systems, jury-rigged together, to satisfy different types of shooting requirements.

Regards,
David


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## Stephen Melvin (Jul 29, 2012)

I agree that the 90 is hardly in need of any optical improvements. I loved that lens, when I owned one.

What I'd like to see is another f/1.4 lens, wider than 24mm. A 20mm f/1.4 would be most welcome.


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## Heidrun (Jul 29, 2012)

Maybe a t&s autofokus zoom lens


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## briansquibb (Jul 29, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> The EF 90mm f/2.8 TS-E is the sharpest lens that Canon makes. Please, please, please don't DOWNGRADE it to a "L" lens. All the Red Ring will do is raise the price, it certainly won't improve the optics.



I think you need to try a few more lens before coming to that conclusion

The TSE-24 for example or the 200 f/2 as well.


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## TrumpetPower! (Jul 29, 2012)

After falling in love with the 24, I find myself wishing for movements on every lens. My only fear is that Canon will, indeed, release new lenses with movements, and that I will find myself unable to refrain from dropping a few more kilobucks on them....

Cheers,

b&


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## ChrisC (Jul 30, 2012)

Kilobucks - that's for sure - lol


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## Gcon (Jul 30, 2012)

A new 24-70mm f/2.8 II USM would be nice. I saw on this professional-looking rumour site: http://www.canon.com.au/Professional/Pro-Lenses/EF24-70mmf2-8L-II-USM that they might actually be releasing one!


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## pwp (Jul 30, 2012)

The current 90mm TS-E would be very difficult to improve on. For products it is brilliant. No changes required thank you.

The 45 TS-E is a more likely candidate for the L treatment and $1000 price hike. The current lens is also an absolute cracker with little room for improvement. Apart from having the extra rotation between the tilt and shift elements as on the new 17 and 24 TS lenses it's damn near perfect. And the hack to modify the the 45 & 90 is a totally viable option.

The original 24 TS-E did need the upgrade and it was very very welcome. And the 17 opened up a whole new creative scope for architectural, landscape & industrial photographers.

PW


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## pwp (Jul 30, 2012)

Gcon said:


> A new 24-70mm f/2.8 II USM would be nice. I saw on this professional-looking rumour site: http://www.canon.com.au/Professional/Pro-Lenses/EF24-70mmf2-8L-II-USM that they might actually be releasing one!



Nah! That's definitely a fake. A EF24-70mmf2-8L-II? In our lifetimes? 
But seriously....bring it on!

PW


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## kirillica (Jul 30, 2012)

Two remarks here:
- 24-70 II start shipping on September-October (at least, current statement says so)
- the sharpest Canon lens is 100L and I doubt TS-E 90 can beat that

and guys, as I'm looking for a new lens, can you please shortly describe (with photos as well) what you need TS lenses for? I can afford any of them, but I'm worried if I will ever use one...


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## SandyP (Jul 30, 2012)

I owned the 90mm TS-E for a year (and will one day own it again)...


And I currently own the 45mm TS-E, which I quite like (and got it to replace the 90mm TS-E because the focal length of 45mm was more useful to me in many situations)....



I think both lenses are pretty darn amazing as it is. Yeah, they could have the improved movement range, but optically they're great already. I'd probably NOT upgrade to the L version of the 45mm, and would most likely go back for the non L version of the 90mm as well. 



kirillica said:


> Two remarks here:
> - 24-70 II start shipping on September-October (at least, current statement says so)
> - the sharpest Canon lens is 100L and I doubt TS-E 90 can beat that
> 
> and guys, as I'm looking for a new lens, can you please shortly describe (with photos as well) what you need TS lenses for? I can afford any of them, but I'm worried if I will ever use one...


*kirillica * - sharpness is not ultimately that important of a factor when determining the "best" qualities of a lens. The 100L might be one of the sharpest Canon lenses, but so what? What about other functionality? Like contrast, color, focus speed, durability, CA, vignette, bokeh, aperture, IS? I can promise you THIS though, the 100L certainly cannot tilt, or shift .  

If you don't know what you'd use this lens for, then I assure you, you don't need one. 

I used mine for some product shots, but also mainly used it for unique perspectives and portraits. But traded it (the 90mm version) for the 45mm version so I could use it for more things like group shots and environmental portraits. But I still love the unique charm of the 90mm. And I'll get it again next year.


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## kirillica (Jul 30, 2012)

SandyP said:


> kirillica said:
> 
> 
> > Two remarks here:
> ...


trust me, 100L is excellent in case of focus, colors, CA, vignette and so on. and it's AF too


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## briansquibb (Jul 30, 2012)

kirillica said:


> trust me, 100L is excellent in case of focus, colors, CA, vignette and so on. and it's AF too



There are lots of excellent lens equal to or greater than the 100L for use other than macro.

However in the way that the 100L is a specialist lens for macro then the Tilt Shifts are also specialist lens with capabilities that no other lens has. The top of the current heap for sharpness etc is probably the TSE-24 L II

The tilt-shift lens is very versatile, with a common use being :

shift - building
tilt - extending the DOF

Here is a recent one of mine (click on image for larger version)


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## epsiloneri (Jul 30, 2012)

dafrank said:


> The 90 TSE is almost perfect as it is, with the possible exceptions of the suggestions as listed above. But, they could really hit the mark by adding to the TSE line for product shooters, by making either a 135mm, 150mm, or 180mm TSE as well.


FYI, it's possible to use extenders with the TS-E 90/2.8 lens. Both the 1.4x and 2.0x work well, giving 126mm/4.0 and 180mm/5.6 equivalents.


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## ronderick (Jul 31, 2012)

A tele-end TSE lens would be great to the current lineup (though I haven't tried the 90 TSE, it seems like a lot of people have high regards for it).

At least it will be very helpful when shooting fireworks + bridge from faraway, where you end up with too many black space when using the 17 TSE and cropping can only do so much....


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## art_d (Jul 31, 2012)

I have been hoping for a 45TS-E II every since I first got my hands on the 24TSE-II 

Truthfully I don't think the current 45 is bad at all, I don't hesitate to use it when I need shift at that focal length. But the thought of an improved version on par with the 24 and the 17 makes me excited.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 31, 2012)

@kirillica


> and guys, as I'm looking for a new lens, can you please shortly describe (with photos as well) what you need TS lenses for? I can afford any of them, but I'm worried if I will ever use one...



I used mine (24 TS-E) for the usual converging vertical corrections (In the slipway shot I wanted to keep the camera back level so as to keep the bridge pillar and the reflection straight, the shift let me do this but also move the frame to the interesting area)..

but also parallax free panoramic stitching using the shift movement along a horizontal plane.. on both these shots (Garrison House cumbrae, and Erskine Bridge pano) a wider angle lens could have been used, but it would have affected the image resolution, by shifting and stitching I was able to generate a much higher resolution image without parallax issues, as the camera back was always in the same position.

And finally I used it for the selective depth of field trick. I could have used the tilt the other way to increase the depth of field, prefered this way to focus on a specific area, this let me focus on the same plane as the sloping rock in the foreground, where as a conventional lens would have only given me a slice of focus this close to the camera.


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## briansquibb (Aug 1, 2012)

Indeed the use of panos instead of uwa lens is something which is often overlooked. Why get a 17mm TSE and a 24mm TSE when a 2 wide pano does the job better. 

The 2 wide pano means you gain height by shooting portrait. A vertical pano using the shift function is another technique that can be gainfully used


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## briansquibb (Aug 1, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> Why the 17 instead of stitching? Time, I use the 17mm for a lot of work, my post processing time would increase dramatically if I was going to start stitching two 24mm images instead of one 17mm image.
> 
> I will happily stitch two 17mm images when needed, and I'll also happily use TC's when I don't need the fov, but one 17mm image suits me best most of the time.



I guess I can afford the 5 minutes for a stitch - especially as the quality and detail is greater than the single image

I regularly do panos. 

With a 5Dc you will end up with a 30mps image from a 3 image pano. I have just done a 8 wide pano landscape using 1DS3 and 70-200 f/2.8II giving me an image 24180 x 4858. If I had done this with a 14mm my image would have still been in the 3:2 ratio and missed a lot of detail as it would have been 21mps.

OK that is an extreme version, but a 2 pano gives about the 3:2 but with about 8k x 5k with detail that blows your mind - and the d800 mps becomes small at the same time. 

The bottom line is that instead of two lens and one 21mps body I end up with indefinite virtual lens and a very high mps body.

Stitching is one way of increasing the function of ones equipment


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## Jylkat (Aug 1, 2012)

It seems likely that Canon will upgrade the TS 45mm and 90mm since Schneider has put out a 50mm and a 90mm, which apparently are superior to Canon's offerings. But they are also pricey (app. $3,300)!

I wish canon would make a lens foot for the TS lenses, so it would be easier to make perfect panoramas, when the lens would stay in exactly the same place and only the camera would be moved.


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## briansquibb (Aug 1, 2012)

Jylkat said:


> I wish canon would make a lens foot for the TS lenses, so it would be easier to make perfect panoramas, when the lens would stay in exactly the same place and only the camera would be moved.



+1


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## wickidwombat (Aug 1, 2012)

kirillica said:


> SandyP said:
> 
> 
> > kirillica said:
> ...


Stick it on a gigapan epic pro and you can have anysize landscape you like too


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 1, 2012)

Jylkat said:


> I wish canon would make a lens foot for the TS lenses, so it would be easier to make perfect panoramas, when the lens would stay in exactly the same place and only the camera would be moved.



Canon doesn't, but Hartblei does (not cheap, though - but then, Canon's wouldn't be, either...).


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## rumorzmonger (Aug 1, 2012)

kirillica said:


> - the sharpest Canon lens is 100L and I doubt TS-E 90 can beat that



How did you dream that up?

The 100L isn't a bad lens, but as far as being Canon's sharpest, it wouldn't make the top 5, and maybe not even the top 10...


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## Jeff (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm not going to say I like my 45 and 90 tse lenses and will welcome the upgrades(there are most definitely CA problems), however more importantly I would rather see Canon bring out a 35mm TSE, the 45mm does not seem to be a useful range for the architectural spaces I worked in over the years whereas I am always wishing I had a 35mm tse that compared to the new 24mm. And while the 90 is ok, again if it was either an 75mm (preferable) or 110 mm tse it would have more practical architectural use in my humble opinion


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## epsiloneri (Aug 1, 2012)

Jeff said:


> I would rather see Canon bring out a 35mm TSE, the 45mm does not seem to be a useful range for the architectural spaces I worked in over the years whereas I am always wishing I had a 35mm tse that compared to the new 24mm. And while the 90 is ok, again if it was either an 75mm (preferable) or 110 mm tse it would have more practical architectural use in my humble opinion


Sounds like you need a TS-E zoom


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 1, 2012)

epsiloneri said:


> Sounds like you need a TS-E zoom



TS-Z 24-85mm f/4.5L. Sign me up.


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## sharka23 (Aug 1, 2012)

@JEFF ->that is exactly what i dreaming of too..

TSe17, TSe24II, the surprising TSe35, schneider PC50mm, and the new TSe90
nice... i love dreaming..


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## art_d (Aug 1, 2012)

Jeff said:


> I'm not going to say I like my 45 and 90 tse lenses and will welcome the upgrades(there are most definitely CA problems), however more importantly I would rather see Canon bring out a 35mm TSE, the 45mm does not seem to be a useful range for the architectural spaces I worked in over the years whereas I am always wishing I had a 35mm tse that compared to the new 24mm. And while the 90 is ok, again if it was either an 75mm (preferable) or 110 mm tse it would have more practical architectural use in my humble opinion


I would suggest using crop cameras. After all, buying an additional crop body is not any more expensive than buying another tilt shift lens! I use a NEX with the 24II to get to 36mm, and with the 45 to get to 68mm. Or if you stick with a Canon 1.6x body those TSE lenses become 38mm and 72mm.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 1, 2012)

art_d said:


> ...if you stick with a Canon 1.6x body...



Then you'd better have small fingers. The popup flash protrusion makes knob access a real challenge, even with the smaller knob that Canon provides for that purpose.


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## sharka23 (Aug 1, 2012)

good input privatebydesign 
but I m afraid of increased distortion not to mention CA, sharpness..
when using the 1.4 converter.


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## briansquibb (Aug 2, 2012)

Just stick the TSE-24 on a 1D4 or ff gives the benefit without drawbacks or reduced IQ. Even an APS-C at iso 100 works OK too


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## Ellen Schmidtee (Aug 2, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Jylkat said:
> 
> 
> > I wish canon would make a lens foot for the TS lenses, so it would be easier to make perfect panoramas, when the lens would stay in exactly the same place and only the camera would be moved.
> ...



425 EUR + S&H? Shish!


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## sharka23 (Aug 2, 2012)

thanks privatbydesign.
until now my choise would have been the pentax 645 FA 35mm with the zörk adapter!
but now you´ve made me very curious about the combination of the TSe24II with the 1.4converter!!

I need to do a test and compare the pentax-solution vs. the canon with 1.4.
and Im very curiouse about that !

thanks for your hint.


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## sharka23 (Aug 2, 2012)

hej pbd.
I totally agree with your opinions.
and your attitude you are doing business. you are right
if you are saying that the customer doesnt care and wouldnt even recognize any
difference we are talking about.
BUT actually I for me do care...

I loved my large format camera and my super angulon XL 58, 90mm and the 120mm
and the quality they delivered. the change from analog to digital 7years ago was not very easy
to me because of weakness of bodies, wideangle lenses, ...
I do interieur photography too and I cant serve my customers any distorted picture!!
some of my customers are even used to get MF-photographs, thats why I cant make a compromise, for example
use crop-cameras, zoomlenses,..
since the TSe24II and TSe17 came out Im quite confident and almost very happy with my gear because
of their excellent quality!
Everytime I use my 17er Im amazed about its capabilities!
and the 24II is even superior.
thats why Im searching a perfect and suitable 35mm!

for your pro example: Annie Leibovitz.
i saw a video (15years ago) where her assistants were loading her filmbacks of her RZ67. and there were about
25 filmbacks on the table!!! at least 25?!? if you need 4 its much...
not to say anything about the light she was using for that shooting.


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## briansquibb (Aug 2, 2012)

sharka23 said:


> thanks privatbydesign.
> until now my choise would have been the pentax 645 FA 35mm with the zörk adapter!
> but now you´ve made me very curious about the combination of the TSe24II with the 1.4converter!!
> 
> ...



Get a 1.3 crop body instead of the 1.4


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## Random Orbits (Aug 2, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Get a 1.3 crop body instead of the 1.4
> ...



The TC does cost you a stop that the crop body doesn't. It's a trade between the crop factor, noise (affected by the generation of the sensor and pixel density), etc.


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## briansquibb (Aug 2, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Get a 1.3 crop body instead of the 1.4
> ...



Low light benefits, DOF and IQ are 3 reasons that I can think of


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## wickidwombat (Aug 3, 2012)

I have found with my kenko 1.4tc the iq is barely affected when stopped down a couple of stops 
Since I guess shooting with tse lenses you would be aiming for a narrow aperture to achieve maximum depth of field that the tc would onky have a barely discernable impact on iq I don't have any tse lenses this is only based on use with normal lenses using tele converters


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## sharka23 (Aug 3, 2012)

in this case I need to say that the knowledge and arguments of PRIVATBYDESIGN were very appreciated and just based
on facts .
we all should welcome other opinions and attitude and ... learn - instead of getting offended !
but yes always remember it's not what you say, but how you say it.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 3, 2012)

Indeed. Knowledge appreciated...argument, not so much.


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## NWPhil (Aug 3, 2012)

Suprised a moderator did not put a stop to what become borderline cyber-bullying. :

Now about the new tilt-shifts:
- any hints about pricing?
seems that they might fall in the $1500-$1800 range or so (accounting for tse24II)
It's a big plus having the new controls in version 2 and the 17mm. I have the 90mm, did the conversion, but still wish I could shift and tilt independently...
Also now that Samyang is about to release a new TS lens, how will Canon respond to that?
Not going to exchange my 90mm, but I might take a look at the new45mm, to use it instead of the regular EF50mm
Tilt-shift zoom? is that possible?


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## paul13walnut5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I have a direct and forthright manner about me, and I'm also a fairly digital personality (things are black and white, I leave the 50 shades of grey to frustrated housewives)

I have been accused of trolling, an insult I would strongly refute, however I do believe very much in the marketplace of ideas and the discipline, technique, art, practice, enjoyment of photography being a broad church (or mosque or synagog or chapel for that matter)

I need to remind myself that even the best ideas (as mine usually are I'm sure you'll agree) put across in the wrong way (as mine also usually are I'm sure you'll agree) don't win an argument, or the more desirable outcome get folk thinking... winning an argument doesn't always make you the winner. Getting folk to think and test their own opinions (and perhaps even choosing to stand by them) makes the process the winner.

A joke can be lost when typed, without the benefit of intonation, a raised eye brow, a smirk.

I'm here to improve my photography, and if I feel my experience can help somebody else do the same then I'll share. I'll get it wrong. I'll get it right. 

But I've been off work this week and out with my camera in some rare scottish sun (in summer time as well - who would have thought) and I didn't think once about the alleged banding on my 7D, or the soft corners on my zoom at 200, proven by a photo of a lens chart, or even much about CR.

I enjoyed my photography. I hope amongst the heated tempers and cross words that folks remember to do that. I may get called a troll for this sign off, but in 100 years time when we are dust, or worm feed or whatever, and folk find our photograph of a since demolished building, of a long forogotton car, of a band who later broke big, of a way of life, do you think they will question the MTFs? the shadow banding? that it wasn't taken on a nikon D800?

Nah of course not. We make images. I'm an amateur. And proud to do it for the love of it.


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## epsiloneri (Aug 9, 2012)

Random Orbits said:


> The TC does cost you a stop that the crop body doesn't.



This is a bit misleading. A TC spreads the light over a larger sensor area, but does not decrease it (significantly). Thus you don't lose light with a TC, merely light density. Another way to put it: Yes, you get one stop less, but that is precisely compensated by the FF sensor being one stop more sensitive (ISO 100 of the 1.6x crop ~ equals ISO 256 on the FF, for similar generation sensors).


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