# To buy M or not to buy M?



## paul13walnut5 (Dec 14, 2012)

Handled one with the 18-55, yet to handle one with the 22mm on it (which is the kit I would go for)

Like it. A lot. A great compliment to my exsisting EOS gear. If I get it.

However I do use some third party lenses, specifcially concerned about the Tokina 11-16, Sigma 30mm f1.4 and 70mm f2.8. Lensbaby composer too.

Has anybody used any of these lenses via the EF adaptor?


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## nickorando (Dec 14, 2012)

I've tested my Lensbaby, also the Sigma 12-24 Mk I and my 600mm Vivitar Solid Cat - all appear to work absolutely fine.


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## pwp (Dec 15, 2012)

I was at CPS the other day and talking about the M. Most pro photographers have bounced off the M for two main reasons. Slow & erratic AF plus the lack of a viewfinder, either EVF or optical. I guess I fit into this category too. Version-2 may be worth the wait. Personally I'd love one if the AF was up to scratch.

-PW


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## infared (Dec 15, 2012)

To buy M or not to buy M?
...for me ...a RESOUNDING ....NOT! 
I have a FF DSLR Kit.
...but my MFT Kit just shoots circles around the M. Big circles, small circles..all kinds of circles.
Sometimes it shoots circles around my Canon FF Kit...like when I want to hand-hold a shot in virtual darkness.
My Canon CANNOT do that. Don't get me wrong...I love my 5DIII...it has its place..
I personally believe that Canon missed the whole point of mirrorless.
...but I am a serious photographer....I realize that the average consumer may feel much differently.


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## jondave (Dec 15, 2012)

I have one with the 22mm and EF adaptor. I got it so I don't have to lug my 5D3 everywhere.

A lot of people here bash the EOS-M for what it isn't supposed to be. Those opinions are misguided because the EOS-M isn't supposed to be your DSLR substitute. What it is is a compact with impeccable image quality, full manual control, AF points you can virtually focus anywhere in the scene. And to top it off, can use EF/EF-S lenses! The EOS-M is for those wanting to jump in the photography scene but don't want to get a chunky DSLR. Eventually when those people buy EF/EF-S lenses it'll be a much more economical transition to a DSLR.

Sure the AF is slow - what do you expect from a compact??? But take note the AF speed depends on what lens is on it - STM lenses focus fast, while it's painfully slow with my 16-35mm II. EVF? You don't put an EVF on a compact. Me, I compose just fine from the LCD. 

Take the EOS-M for what it is. If you want a smaller body that has proper AF speed, get a 1100D/650D. Or a Sony Nex if you have a lot of money to still invest in another system. Otherwise there is no substitute to the DSLR you currently have.


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## seta666 (Dec 15, 2012)

I know this is a Canon users site but in my opinion the EOS-M is an overpriced mirrorless with poor features.

I would suggest getting a NEX-5N instead, you can get the kit with 18-55 and flash very cheap (around 450$)
I you do not need the lens/flash you can sell it for 150$+ and you have a very cheap mirrorless.


There are NEX-EF adapter on ebay for around 250$, the electronic one can use aperture and IS and some of them offer AF capabilities. I am going to use my MP-E and a EF-S 60mm macro on my NEX-5N with one of them

NEX-5N vs EOS-M

- Better sensor (better DR and lower noise)
- Better AF (Af is fast on the NEX)
- Much longer battery life (twice us much)
- Half the price

Lense choice for the NEX system is better than for EOS-M

You have the cheap sigma 19/2.8 and 30/2.8 which are tack sharp, 150$ on BHphoto
The new 35/1.8 OSS gives you a 50mm standard with IS, a bit expensive though 400$


The 22/2 canon is sexy though ;-)


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## verysimplejason (Dec 15, 2012)

I think the next version of M will have more of those missing features that some are whining about.  For me, I just hope that its AF will be faster. If they can do that, then I'd consider it as a replacement to my ageing G11. An M + 22mm looks very nice. Size is comparable enough to G11 and it fits in my belt bag which is something I'm looking for in a second body. I'd also rather have a swivel screen than a viewfinder but that's me. It's very useful for landscape and macro photography that I'm doing.


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## paul13walnut5 (Dec 15, 2012)

Thanks for the responses, especially those thoughtful ones which appear to be to a question I hadn't asked.

Already have a 600d, another option is mounting a shorty forty I suppose...

I decided against the mft or nex route because apart from the Panasonic gf1 none have really floated my boated.
I'm concerned about the future of both mounts since Sony have bought into Olympus.

Besides, I don't want another lens system.

Does anybody know if there is af micro-adjust on the m?


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## seta666 (Dec 15, 2012)

In my opinion Sony and Olympus have a very good future, Sony has not bought Olympus but it is interested in its medical division. Olympus in exchange got a sony sensor on the OM-D M5 and the new PEN

You are going into a new lens system, so it does not matter if you buy Olympus, canon or sony as you will need new lenses and/or adapters. The only thing you can borrow on the EOS-M from its big brothers are flashes

I do not think it has AF micro adjustment because itr does not have a AF module. It focuses through the sensor


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## RLPhoto (Dec 15, 2012)

I generally don't adopt first generation electronic products.


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## paul13walnut5 (Dec 15, 2012)

seta666 said:


> You are going into a new lens system, so it does not matter if you buy Olympus, canon or sony as you will need new lenses and/or adapters. The only thing you can borrow on the EOS-M from its big brothers are flashes



If i buy I'll be going for the M + 22mm + Adaptor.

The 22mm pancake is probably the only EF-M lens I will own. It will be for the bulk of the time when it's a pocket camera. For any other occassion I'll use the Canon AF or third party lenses I already have. 

By the time you get beyond the pancake primes on any other system the cameras are far from compact. So the taking of Canon lenses (which i already have) is a big plus. Don't really fancy the metabones route...


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## pwp (Dec 16, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I generally don't adopt first generation electronic products...


...and with very good reason. Recent tech history is loaded with examples of why it makes a lot of sense to go with Generation 2. Original iPhone anyone? EOS 1Ds? I could make a long list here with Canons, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Leica, Nikon etc.

But along with around a billion other photographers I'll be keen to see Canon's next mirrorless offering. 

If I just _had to_ get on board with mirrorless right now, I'd be having a long hard look at the Olympus OM-D E M5. Read up here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusem5/
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/olympus_om_d_e_m5_review.shtml

-PW


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## CharlieB (Dec 16, 2012)

Id go with a Leica M9


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## pwp (Dec 16, 2012)

CharlieB said:


> I'd go with a Leica M9



...and not the flawed original Leica M8? Oh yes...first generation.

-PW


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## bycostello (Dec 16, 2012)

i got the fuji x-e1 after waiting all that time for the M.... disappointed with it..


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## bycostello (Dec 16, 2012)

the M that is... the fuji is awesome...


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## verysimplejason (Dec 16, 2012)

bycostello said:


> the M that is... the fuji is awesome...



Fuji is awesome but you need another set of lens. I'd wait for the next M. The fact that it can use my other Canon lenses is already a big +. I don't have any wish to spend more on other lenses except those I can use with my SLR. Also the cost of maintaining 2 different systems is way, way expensive for me to handle. For me, the M is a perfect backup camera and as a light camera when you need one. E.g., I carry my G11 when we go out for weekends and when I want to travel light. It's still usable until ISO 800 for internet purposes. With the M, I think it can do almost everything that my SLR can do and that's a good thing.


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## pwp (Dec 16, 2012)

bycostello said:


> the M that is... the fuji is awesome...





bycostello said:


> i got the fuji x-e1 after waiting all that time for the M.... disappointed with it..


Can you elaborate on your particular issues with the M? 

Your Fuji sounds like a winner:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/fujifilm-x-e1
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/fuji_x_e1_review.shtml
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/fujifilm-x-e1-review-20751

I can't believe Canon will remain a fringe player in the Mirrorless Universe for too much longer. This is the future. The current DSLR design fundamentals have their roots well and truly embedded in film SLR design principals and historically will be regarded as transitional.

-PW


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## EvilTed (Dec 16, 2012)

Although you can use your existing lenses, would you really want to?
I can hardly see anyone walking around with a 24-70 on the M body 

I'd get the Fuji.
I have an X-Pro 1 and have ordered an XE-1.
The Fuji glass is better than any of my L lenses...

ET


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## infared (Dec 16, 2012)

pwp said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I generally don't adopt first generation electronic products...
> ...



+++1 OMD...amazing camera...the next one will be off the charts!


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## hambergler (Dec 16, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> bycostello said:
> 
> 
> > the M that is... the fuji is awesome...
> ...



What Canon Lenses are you dying to use on an EOS M?

I know my two main lenses (24-70 II and 70-200 2.8 IS II) would be ridiculous on a mirrorless.

The only one I could see using is maybe the 40mm pancake or maybe some EF-S lenses which I would never buy since I have a Full Frame.


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## Area256 (Dec 16, 2012)

I like the idea of the M, I don't even mind the lack of an EVF or buttons - it's a compact after all. The AF was just far to slow to make it something to consider though. The OM-D and NEX cameras are proving to have far nicer AF, and the Fuji sensors and glass look amazing. The Nikon V2 has really awesome AF, but it's also got a 2.7x crop 

I'd wait for the next gen M, or go with another brand, unless the AF speed really isn't an issue for you - in which case it seems like a decent compact for someone with (small) Canon lenses.


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## sambafan (Dec 16, 2012)

Agree with the notion of waiting for Gen 2. I love the idea of it, with the 22 lens, as a walkaround. 
As to Fujifilm, after my experience with the X100 it would take a miracle to persuade me to try another.


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## nickorando (Dec 16, 2012)

There are three problems with the M - one, the AF, two, the fact that it's easy to move the focus point unintentionally, and three, the lens cap design is poor and it tends to fall off. For me, it's problems 2 and 3 that are most irritating - I don't need it as an action camera, and if left on continuous AF, it's not generally that slow at all, it's focused by the time I've composed. Thankfully, it doesn't have an appalling EVF - so far, only Fuji's hybrid viewfinders don't make me physically sick on the EVF front.
I wouldn't want it to be my only camera, but integrated into an EOS system, it's great - oddly enough, it feels good with the 70-300 L and the 8-15 L.

The fact that it feels so nice and produces much better images than anything else its size do help, of course.


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## Ellen Schmidtee (Dec 16, 2012)

jondave said:


> I have one with the 22mm and EF adaptor. I got it so I don't have to lug my 5D3 everywhere.
> 
> A lot of people here bash the EOS-M for what it isn't supposed to be. Those opinions are misguided because the EOS-M isn't supposed to be your DSLR substitute. What it is is a compact with impeccable image quality, full manual control, AF points you can virtually focus anywhere in the scene. And to top it off, can use EF/EF-S lenses! The EOS-M is for those wanting to jump in the photography scene but don't want to get a chunky DSLR. Eventually when those people buy EF/EF-S lenses it'll be a much more economical transition to a DSLR.



What I expect from a compact interchangeable lens camera is to have small lenses. I'm not going to buy it just because it has a good alternative to the EF 35mm f/2 & can mount my EF lenses w/ an adapter.

If there were EF-M 15mm f/2 & EF-M diagonal fisheye, I would seriously consider it. An equivalent of the EF 24-105mm f/4 would help.


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## bycostello (Dec 16, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> bycostello said:
> 
> 
> > the M that is... the fuji is awesome...
> ...



the whole point for me is to reduce bulk... and so DSLR lenses kind of defeat that... so i'd buy new lenses anyway.. sure i would of liked compatibility but for me wasn't an option...


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## paul13walnut5 (Dec 16, 2012)

I might want to use the camera on a multi shoot.

Any I think any mirrorless camera looks a bit ridiculous with anything other than a pancake on it. So if I'm going to get sneered at, i might as well get sneered at with lenses I already have.

So far about 2 folk have given useful answers. I'm not asking about a Leica or a fuji.
I'm asking about the EOS M. I will either buy or not buy an EOS M. I am interested in how your EOS M has worked for you. 

If you don't use an EOS M then start a new thread to talk about what you would buy instead, I didn't ask and don't care. I can work google.

If anybody else has an EOS M and useful germaine advice to offer then great!


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## wickidwombat (Dec 16, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I might want to use the camera on a multi shoot.
> 
> Any I think any mirrorless camera looks a bit ridiculous with anything other than a pancake on it. So if I'm going to get sneered at, i might as well get sneered at with lenses I already have.
> 
> ...



It will be interesting to see what potential magic lantern unlock with this puppy
I guess this will be of more interest to you too since you do mainly video, I am hoping for ML
adding intervalometer to it so i can use it for a timelapse camera for weddings and events
(no need to worry about burning through shutters, light easy to mount in different places) battey life
might be my main issue with this but i'll see how it goes I'm also more interested in using the EOS-M for video 
to complement my other stuff so very keen to see what ML unlocks.

as a side note i did a bit of a studio comparison with
EOS-M + 18-55 STM kit lens
600D + 18-55 EF-S kit lens
5Dmk2 + 28-90 old school lens
5Dmk2 + 24-105L
5Dmk3 + 24-70L

and the EOS-M blew the doors off the 600D and kit lens stopped down the EF-M kit lens is SHARP whereas the EF-S kit lens never really gets there.
also in a studio environment the touch to shoot was useless as the screen is black until you touch it 
so it total guesswork, so I thought i'd give the shutter button a go and...
Using the shutter button with studio lights the AF is fast probably at least on a par with the 600D and kit lens combo however you still have to hold the shutter half way and sort out your composition once the screen shows up so there is a bit of a delay due to composing, I was very suprised. I think the AF can be fixed and it will just take some effort on canons part to do so.


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## paul13walnut5 (Dec 17, 2012)

Thank you wickidwombat.

Thats 3 useful answers now.

ISO for ISO side by side how do you think the video compares from the EOS M to the 600D?

I'm using two APS-C D4 cameras, I'm concerned that a D5 camera might not cut in so seamlessly?

Any thoughts?


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## davidstarzhou (Dec 20, 2012)

I like EOS-M but I would prefer to wait for the 2nd generation.

It is a very compact solution to the EF lens I have own, rather than bulkier 5D MARK II.

I guess I would upgrade my 5D MARK II to 5D MARK III, the same time Canon release EOS-M 2nd generation, so that I use 5D3 as main body and 2nd gen EOS-M as the backup body.


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## jal2099 (Dec 20, 2012)

I have one and the 22mm lens. I also have the EF adapter and a Leica M mount adapter (from RainbowImaging -- i think is the username on Amazon and eBay). It's a fun camera. I am not disappointed. The focus issues are managable and only seldom do I curse at it. The image quality is very nice. My other camera is a hand-me-down 1D Mark II, which I haven't touched since. I am rarely without this camera.

So...here's another vote for this camera.


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## paul13walnut5 (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks Jal2099.

I'll see what santa brings me, and if not that, what I can sell..

Cheers


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## Daniel Flather (Dec 25, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> I think the next version of M will have more of those missing features that some are whining about.



Yes, it'll also have a higher price too, to keep the whiners' fodder supplied.


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## FunPhotons (Jan 20, 2013)

Like all other companies Canon will place the M cameras in their lineup in such a way that they won't cannibalize anything else. This means that - even if they could make it so - the M series will never be as good as a DSLR except possibly at the low end DSLR, high end M. Canon probably decided to do the line because of competitor pressure, and it provides a stepping off point into DSLR's. 

So for an existing DSLR owner why would we get a M, other than for the cool factor? As a smaller body complement to our existing system. We can use our existing lenses, but if we do so then it kind of defeats the purpose of having a smaller complement to the system. Anything above the 40mm pancake will be a monster on that body, and you have to use an adaptor. 

So ... using it for it's best purpose, as a small side camera for those times you can't bring a DSLR, look at this







Here we have a DSLR with a pancake next to the M. Sure the M is smaller and lighter, but is it _that_ smaller? I see maybe an extra inch vertically and horizontally at maximum. Indeed, when I put the shorty-40 on my 5DmkII I have a really tiny, lightweight camera. I barely notice it, and I have the full power of the existing DSLR (speed, focus, IQ, features, etc). I don't have a hugely _quiet_ body, but if I had a 5DMKIII then I could use quiet shutter mode. 

So ... EOS-M isn't for me. The small reduction in size isn't large enough to warrant the price tag and extra equipment. For the cost of an EOS-M you could get a duo of pancakes, the 40mm and Voightlander 20mm.

I got the Fuji x100 as a side camera for those times when a DSLR wouldn't work. There are a few occasions where it's great, so small and unobtrusive (and quiet) that the DSLR would have been too much. Most of the time though it sits unused.


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## tomscott (Jan 20, 2013)

If your talking BMW then always M 

Heres mine 



BMW Z4M Coupe CSL wheels by tom_scott88, on Flickr

Sorry off-topic


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## elflord (Jan 20, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> bycostello said:
> 
> 
> > the M that is... the fuji is awesome...




You don't need a full set of lenses. The lenses you choose for a mirrorless (if you already have a DSLR) are going to be small normal length lenses that don't have a direct equivalent in the EOS lineup. You can generally get by with 1 or 2 native lenses (with the fuji I'd just get the 35) 



> Fuji is awesome but you need another set of lens. I'd wait for the next M.



Perhaps the only point of the mirrorless from Canon is to keep the party faithful from giving up and buying one of the strong products from other manufacturers.


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## rpt (Jan 20, 2013)

tomscott said:


> If your talking BMW then always M
> 
> Heres mine
> 
> ...


For $799 I'd have picked it up in a second!


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## IronChef (Jan 20, 2013)

FunPhotons said:


> Like all other companies Canon will place the M cameras in their lineup in such a way that they won't cannibalize anything else. This means that - even if they could make it so - the M series will never be as good as a DSLR except possibly at the low end DSLR, high end M. Canon probably decided to do the line because of competitor pressure, and it provides a stepping off point into DSLR's.
> 
> So for an existing DSLR owner why would we get a M, other than for the cool factor? As a smaller body complement to our existing system. We can use our existing lenses, but if we do so then it kind of defeats the purpose of having a smaller complement to the system. Anything above the 40mm pancake will be a monster on that body, and you have to use an adaptor.
> 
> ...



You show a comparison with the 650D, which has a smaller consumer body already, and than talk about a 5d, but I find the difference between the M and a 5d pretty big actually. 

http://j.mp/Xsbc3j


And the 64mm equivalent you get from a 650D with a 40mm is a bit to much for a standard prime.


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## FunPhotons (Jan 20, 2013)

IronChef said:


> You show a comparison with the 650D, which has a smaller consumer body already, and than talk about a 5d



Yes I know, I wrote the post 

Take it for what it's worth, I don't find the size difference between my Fuji and my 5D w/ pancake to be significant.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jan 21, 2013)

tomscott said:


> If your talking BMW then always M
> 
> Heres mine
> 
> ...



Ooooooh, you've got a BMW. Good for you.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 21, 2013)

elflord said:


> Perhaps the only point of the mirrorless from Canon is to keep the party faithful from giving up and buying one of the strong products from other manufacturers.



Or to complete the merger of still photography and video. Granted the current offerings are absolutely pathetic but consider the possibility that the 7D2 (or some "M1" professional model) will be M-mount and capable of taking 24FPS. And, oh yes, that extra pin in the M lensmount is for power zoom and introduced concurrently with the 7D2/M1 are a series of video-centric zoom lenses with that capability.


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## paul13walnut5 (Jan 21, 2013)

> And, oh yes, that extra pin in the M lensmount is for power zoom and introduced concurrently with the 7D2/M1 are a series of video-centric zoom lenses with that capability.



Let's hope so, as a servo zoom EF lens would hopefully also work on the c series cameras.

There was the old EF 35-80 PZ (sold with the EOS 700 I think) which used an on lens servo control, this type of the design would enable the any new PZ lenses on existing video capable DSLR's, which is a big market. I'm not sure that any of the EF mount pins had any bearing other than power, which would be going to the lens anyway for aperture and focus.


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## RGF (Mar 23, 2013)

pwp said:


> I was at CPS the other day and talking about the M. Most pro photographers have bounced off the M for two main reasons. Slow & erratic AF plus the lack of a viewfinder, either EVF or optical. I guess I fit into this category too. Version-2 may be worth the wait. Personally I'd love one if the AF was up to scratch.
> 
> -PW



Until the AF is solved the rest is a waste of time. Yes also need a viewfinder.


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## bdunbar79 (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm thinking I'm going with the Olympus OM-D.


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## CircuitR (Mar 24, 2013)

I can't tell you what to buy, but I can suggest to write a pros and cons list. I did this and compared it to the other cameras I was considering (X100,Nex,OMD and lumix) and it really showed that the M isn't a too bad of a camera, for its price. 
I've just ordered mine and it should arrive in a week. I had to get it parallel imported here in NZ as they only offer 2 kits (single lens and twin lens) and I didn't want the zoom as my 17-40 will be my standard zoom on the M. 

I reckon this will make a handy second camera and I think it's pretty cool. 

Good luck. 
Blair


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## Rienzphotoz (Mar 24, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> However I do use some third party lenses, specifcially concerned about the Tokina 11-16, Sigma 30mm f1.4 and 70mm f2.8. Lensbaby composer too.
> Has anybody used any of these lenses via the EF adaptor?


Paul, a colleague of mine (to whom I had sold my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 lens in 2010) just today received her brand new EOS-M with 22m, the 18-55 lenses and the EF adapter, so I've asked her to check it with the Tokina 11-16mm and she said it works perfectly ... I've requested her to bring it over one of these days, if I get a hold of it I'll post some pics taken with EOS-M & Tokina 11-16 ... hopefully you will like them as I am not a pro but I do make a few decent pics once in a while. ;D


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## paul13walnut5 (Mar 25, 2013)

That would be super-cool!

Thanks a lot!


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## fonts (Mar 25, 2013)

CircuitR said:


> I can't tell you what to buy, but I can suggest to write a pros and cons list. I did this and compared it to the other cameras I was considering (X100,Nex,OMD and lumix) and it really showed that the M isn't a too bad of a camera, for its price.
> I've just ordered mine and it should arrive in a week. I had to get it parallel imported here in NZ as they only offer 2 kits (single lens and twin lens) and I didn't want the zoom as my 17-40 will be my standard zoom on the M.
> 
> I reckon this will make a handy second camera and I think it's pretty cool.
> ...



I myself like the idea, and can't wait for a V2 of this camera to get for my girlfriend (aka second body 8))


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## Ew (Mar 25, 2013)

Just picked up an M w/ 22mm + EF adapter.

I was surpized at how un-inspiring the 22 is. But the EF adapter works great - although there is a little play beyween is and the body. (Tried 3 copes - all same).

Tried the 135/2 and SY8mm before the initial charge died. 

I've also forgotten how much noise there is compared to a 5D3. 

While I may completely wrong, I'm looking at this as a manual focus / b-roll body.
I'll see how it goes and will update. Please so far.


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## CircuitR (Mar 25, 2013)

Ew said:


> Just picked up an M w/ 22mm + EF adapter.
> 
> I was surpized at how un-inspiring the 22 is. But the EF adapter works great - although there is a little play beyween is and the body. (Tried 3 copes - all same).
> 
> ...



I haven't had too much time to play with the 22mm in the stores, having a sales rep breathing over me is annoying. I'll find out when my M arrives next week. 

I've thought about getting a Samyang/Rokinon 8mm, but I want to buy the 35L next for my 5D2. Maybe some better M mount primes will be released later this year.


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## scrup (Mar 25, 2013)

For those that have the kit flash. Is it worth getting it?

I see some decent ebay deals from HK with it. 

Deciding on just getting 22 + adapter for 710 or 22. 18-55, flash + adapter for around 870.


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## CircuitR (Mar 25, 2013)

scrup said:


> For those that have the kit flash. Is it worth getting it?
> 
> I see some decent ebay deals from HK with it.
> 
> Deciding on just getting 22 + adapter for 710 or 22. 18-55, flash + adapter for around 870.



I'd get the 22mm kit and buy a 270EX, the kit flash seems a bit under powered to me.


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## botw (Mar 27, 2013)

CircuitR said:


> scrup said:
> 
> 
> > For those that have the kit flash. Is it worth getting it?
> ...



the 90ex is worth it if you have another flash and want a commander. that's how I use it anyway.


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## RGF (Mar 27, 2013)

pwp said:


> I was at CPS the other day and talking about the M. Most pro photographers have bounced off the M for two main reasons. Slow & erratic AF plus the lack of a viewfinder, either EVF or optical. I guess I fit into this category too. Version-2 may be worth the wait. Personally I'd love one if the AF was up to scratch.
> 
> -PW



+1000


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## scrup (Mar 27, 2013)

botw said:


> the 90ex is worth it if you have another flash and want a commander. that's how I use it anyway.



Good idea. I have the Metz 50 so i mite just get it as part of the kit.


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## alexanderferdinand (Mar 27, 2013)

Everytime something new is out in the photografic world, there is an itch: must have (5D3, 70-200/2,8II etc).
Then there is some interesting concepts like the Fuji 100, now with an s; or the Sony RX100.
They are: lets take a closer look.
The M- Series: nothing.
And I'm a Canonuser since 1983.


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## Ew (Mar 28, 2013)

Slightly annoying is the constant AF - feels as if it is thrashing any lens attached. Need to find out how to turn that off. 

Looking forward to running ML for focus peaking.. this would be a great quick MF solution.

Need to do some tests with different SD cards - initial runs only showed a 4 frame burst sequence shooting raw. Jpg keeps going ang going however.

Weekend is planned (after kids are in bed) - MagicLantern and intervelometer workflows.


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## Act444 (Mar 28, 2013)

I have the M and have used it a few times. I have both the 22mm and the 18-55mm lenses. No adapter (tried it and the focus with standard EF lenses was far too slow for my liking)

Unlike many posters here, I didn't buy it so much as a replacement or even complement to my DSLR as I did get it to replace my SD950IS Elph. I bought it as a small everyday camera and use it for the same things I would have used the Elph for (read: places where a DSLR is either inconvenient or not allowed). FOR THAT PURPOSE it excels. The IQ runs circles around the SD950IS and (using the 22mm lens) rivals my old 60D in quality. The two big drawbacks I see are a) lack of built-in flash and b) AF can hunt sometimes. The AF is no worse than the SD950IS in most cases (sometimes it is slower at wide angle, but at telephoto it's significantly faster - the SD950IS would take at least 2-3 seconds to focus zoomed all the way in). 

The 22mm lens provides great IQ - comparable to, say a 60D with the 40mm 2.8. OTOH, the 18-55mm I find to be very average, even mediocre in non-ideal lighting situations. Even then it's STILL better than the SD950IS. Disappointingly, though, sometimes there's not much difference (usually shooting ISO 3200 indoors/no flash). 

But the biggest upgrade from the Elph for me? The ability to shoot RAW...this keeps my workflow consistent and gives me the same options/flexibility for editing as if I used my 5D. 

As a P&S replacement - get it, it won't let you down. As a DSLR replacement - not recommended. As a complement/backup to a DSLR - perhaps I would wait and try out the new Rebel SL1 first.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > However I do use some third party lenses, specifcially concerned about the Tokina 11-16, Sigma 30mm f1.4 and 70mm f2.8. Lensbaby composer too.
> ...



mine works fine with my sigma 35, 50 and 85 also fine with my chipped lens baby and chipped 8mm samyang


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## gngan (Apr 13, 2013)

jondave said:


> I have one with the 22mm and EF adaptor. I got it so I don't have to lug my 5D3 everywhere.
> 
> A lot of people here bash the EOS-M for what it isn't supposed to be. Those opinions are misguided because the EOS-M isn't supposed to be your DSLR substitute. What it is is a compact with impeccable image quality, full manual control, AF points you can virtually focus anywhere in the scene. And to top it off, can use EF/EF-S lenses! The EOS-M is for those wanting to jump in the photography scene but don't want to get a chunky DSLR. Eventually when those people buy EF/EF-S lenses it'll be a much more economical transition to a DSLR.
> 
> ...



I think you misunderstood people's complain regarding slow AF. What do you mean "what do you expect from a compact"? There are other mirrorless camera that has fast/faster AF. So they are not compact?


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## mrsfotografie (Apr 13, 2013)

seta666 said:


> I know this is a Canon users site but in my opinion the EOS-M is an overpriced mirrorless with poor features.
> 
> I would suggest getting a NEX-5N instead, you can get the kit with 18-55 and flash very cheap (around 450$)
> I you do not need the lens/flash you can sell it for 150$+ and you have a very cheap mirrorless.
> ...



Yes, go 'N'  

I love my little kit (and have the Sigma 30mm f/2.8 in E-mount, a great little lens).


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## paul13walnut5 (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm actually glad I've held off, the M price is just dropping and dropping. AF seems to suck, but I'm not buying one for that..

I like the form of the N cameras, but I just can't imagine being able to find an E mount lens in 10 years time, or an f2.8 telezoom just now.

And besides, I already have my EF and EF-s glass.

$400 for an M & 22 is very tempting even after import duty etc.

Going to try and punt my HDV camera and see if that raises enough to get the M 22 EF adaptor combo methinks.


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## mrsfotografie (Apr 14, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I like the form of the N cameras, but I just can't imagine being able to find an E mount lens in 10 years time, or an f2.8 telezoom just now.



I wonder how relevant that is, really. Camera systems come and go (except Nikon F mount).


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## traveller (Apr 14, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> ...I just can't imagine being able to find an E mount lens in 10 years time, or an f2.8 telezoom just now.



I think we're a bit early in this game to pick clear winners and losers. FWIW, I would think that micro-4/3rds and Sony E-mount would be the two main contender to survive (perhaps along with Fuji X-mount). Nikon '1' seems stillborn, I wouldn't be surprised if they dump it (quietly) and re-launch an APS-C based system. As for Samsung, you would struggle to buy most of their lenses and accessories here in the UK [think I'm joking: http://camerapricebuster.co.uk/manu.php?n=Samsung&m=17 - where the heck are the rest of the lenses... not available? ???]. 

I would _definitely not_ (with bells and whistles) buy the 'M' as a system camera until there are a _lot_ more lenses available. That's not to say that it wouldn't make sense to get one with the 22mm f/2 if the price was right and it met your needs; just don't bank on there ever being an extensive range of quality lenses in the future.


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## paul13walnut5 (Apr 14, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> paul13walnut5 said:
> 
> 
> > I like the form of the N cameras, but I just can't imagine being able to find an E mount lens in 10 years time, or an f2.8 telezoom just now.
> ...



Relevant now because there aren't decent fast aperture zooms in E-mount. EF mount has been around now for 25 years, and there are new platforms using it (cinema cameras and cinema lenses, third party cinema cameras like the BMD's etc)

Relevant now also because I don't want to buy into another system.



traveller said:


> I think we're a bit early in this game to pick clear winners and losers. FWIW, I would think that micro-4/3rds and Sony E-mount would be the two main contender to survive (perhaps along with Fuji X-mount). Nikon '1' seems stillborn, I wouldn't be surprised if they dump it (quietly) and re-launch an APS-C based system. As for Samsung, you would struggle to buy most of their lenses and accessories here in the UK [think I'm joking: http://camerapricebuster.co.uk/manu.php?n=Samsung&m=17 - where the heck are the rest of the lenses... not available? ???].



I don't know. Didn't Sony buy up shares in Olympus? Would Sony keep both mounts going? (3 if you include legacy dynax)



> I would _definitely not_ (with bells and whistles) buy the 'M' as a system camera until there are a _lot_ more lenses available. That's not to say that it wouldn't make sense to get one with the 22mm f/2 if the price was right and it met your needs; just don't bank on there ever being an extensive range of quality lenses in the future.



There are lots and lots of lenses canon available to fit via the adaptor, including the ones I have in my kit bag, available to me now at no extra cost.

22mm for pocket camera use, adaptor for video stuff etc. I wouldn't use the M to replace my SLR for stills where high performance is needed.


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## mrsfotografie (Apr 14, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > paul13walnut5 said:
> ...



It's not going to happen because of the size of such fast lenses. Compactness is more important in mirrorless-land and with ever higher quality iso's, who needs a fast zoom?

Keep the fast stuff for the DSLR's


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## paul13walnut5 (Apr 14, 2013)

mrsfotografie said:


> It's not going to happen because of the size of such fast lenses. Compactness is more important in mirrorless-land and with ever higher quality iso's, who needs a fast zoom?
> 
> Keep the fast stuff for the DSLR's



Some of the very fast primes like the voigtlander M43 are very interesting from a video point of view.

I think you hit the nail on the head, folk were expecting an SLR beater from the M, but which of the mirrorless cameras are, the GH3? from a video context at least.

What makes the M viable for me is the mirrorless compactness with the 22mm prime when you want it, EF lenses when you need or want more. I suppose those with the bright Olympus 43 telezooms can adapt them to M43, and the same is true of MAF users with N cameras. The point being, I already have the nice canon mount lenses I want to use.

None of the mirrorless cameras are compact with anything other than a pancake lens on them. It's a segment I don't quite understand, and I think a lot of canon users are the same when it comes to the M.


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## mrsfotografie (Apr 14, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> None of the mirrorless cameras are compact with anything other than a pancake lens on them. It's a segment I don't quite understand, and I think a lot of canon users are the same when it comes to the M.



It does make sense if you have a little kit limited to about 2 or 3 small lenses that'll fit in a tiny bag and allows 'real' photography none the less. A nice quality alternative to a DSLR that you can take on almost any occasion where you don't want to bring the big SLR, or just want to shoot some casual photo's. The 'M' does that, and so do its rivals.

I must say such a mirrorless kit makes more sense when you compare the size of the system to a kit consisting of (semi) pro bodies and lenses rather than a little XXX(x)D with a mega-zoom lens. But that suits a different target audience IMHO.

I've a tiny 2-lens selection for my Nex-6 at the moment: the Sony E PZ 16-50 mm F3.5-5.6 OSS and the Sigma 30mm F2.8 EX DN. This combination will squeeze into a Lowepro Compact Courier 70, External Dimensions: 16.5 x 8 x 20.5 cm (6.50 x 3.15 x 8.07 in). I've no real ambition to use tele-lenses on this kit. The EVF however good it is, is a little too detached for fast work and the relatively fast AF on the Nex-6 is slow compared to a good DSLR. I do have a NEX-FD adapter though that allows me to use some old FD stuff I have, i.e. 70-210 F/4 FDn and 135 mm f/2.5 FL. The latter I still have to give a try.


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## smozes (Apr 14, 2013)

Hi all. I own an S90, and it's been a good camera.

I've been thinking about the EOS-M, have read and watched all about the auto-focus. I played with my S90, and it seems to me that the auto-focus speed is roughly similar. I have never owned a DSLR, only G and S series cameras, that's what I'm used to.

It seems that it just fails when compared to a DSLR, but considered as a compact, it's nothing unusual. 

Another observation is that the touch screen appears to be far more efficient to operate than a bunch of knobs, yet this efficiency isn't appreciated as part of overall speed of operation.

So as a S90 owner, I may be happy with the EOS-M. I mostly look to a small camera to take on long hikes. The price drops are very enticing.

Thoughts?


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## tiger82 (Apr 15, 2013)

Want the same size? Buy the SL1 and ensure you will have a good supply of new and used Ef and EF-S glass.


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## LukieLauXD (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm pretty sure if I didn't have a 5D2 to use, I'd be about ready to throw my M against a wall. Usually it just sits in the cabinet as I lug around 20 lbs in equipment to school. Understand IT'S NOT A DSLR replacement. It's a great camera if you look at the camera what way. It focuses about how fast a point and shoot would be. It has a lot of fun features (profesionally I don't use them but taking pictures with friends, it comes in handy).

It's a great camera overall and with the recent $400 Ebay M with 22mm lens, I'd TOTALLY GET IT AGAIN. HAHAHAH I got it when it was $720 though.


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## bigal1000 (Apr 17, 2013)

I bought one and I'm very glad I did,fantastic iQ


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## tiger82 (Apr 17, 2013)

bigal1000 said:


> I bought one and I'm very glad I did,fantastic iQ



Post some pics


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## Haydn1971 (Apr 17, 2013)

I bought a M a couple of months back - I'm a bit baffled by the people going on about the AF - yes, it's slower than a DSLR, but no worse than a point and shoot camera. Great piccies, carry it everywhere with me


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## dickgrafixstop (Apr 19, 2013)

Not. I did and wish I hadn't. Took it back and bought a Fuji X20. Glad I did. (also "saved" enough for the regular EOS 40mm for my real cameras)


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## tallrob (Apr 25, 2013)

I don't think the M is the best mirrorless by any stretch. Certainly you can do better with a Fuji or Sony. But for the price, since the recent drop, it's unbeatable. With the kit lenses the AF is fine - don't believe the fud. With EF lemses via the adapter, it really depends on the lens. Some are much faster than others. Pre focusing helps. 

Now, the question is why would you want to put this little M on a big lens - what's the point? 

1. Touch screen. Very cool. I can definitely see this tech coming to all cameras. Canon has their UI down, and puts all others to shame. Anyone who poopoos the touch screen hasn't spent enough time with it. 

2. Shutter sound. Virtually nonexistent. This is why I bought the M, so I could use my EF-Llenses and shoot with no mirror slap. No more dirty looks while shooting performances.

3. Weight. Well, this is more theoretical than anything. The M is really light, but horribly off balance with a big lens attached. The EF-EFM adapter is very nice, but they should have incorporated a grip into it. I'm waiting for someone with a 3d printer to put one up on kickstarter. 

So, should you buy? Always a touch question. If you can get it for $400, definitely. Otherwise I'd hold off until the next gen.


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## paul13walnut5 (May 1, 2013)

Well, I've taken the plunge and ordered my M, with EF-M adaptor and 22mm lens.

Thanks for all the advice up until now.

I tried one out with the focus set to single point select and it worked pretty well, in both one shot and servo continuous. I don't get the beefs. It is figuratively miles ahead of my 600d in live view mode, and it's not meant to replace my 7D in conventional mode.

Excited.

Oh and it's in black!


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## wickidwombat (May 2, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Well, I've taken the plunge and ordered my M, with EF-M adaptor and 22mm lens.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice up until now.
> 
> ...



try the touch to shoot, its pretty fast not that far off the pace of a rebel
but what i have noticed is I feel its accuracy is significantly better than the AF from a rebel
it rarely misses focus

enjoy!

also the 22mm is such a great little lens i pretty much use this and the samyang 8mm on this camera
havent used the 18-55 much at all even though it's not too bad stopped down


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## elflord (May 2, 2013)

tallrob said:


> I don't think the M is the best mirrorless by any stretch. Certainly you can do better with a Fuji or Sony. But for the price, since the recent drop, it's unbeatable.



It's the best Canon mirrorless, for sure.

Outside of Canon, you can get mature Nth generation mirrorless cameras with touchscreens and all that, not to mention more complete lens systems for well under $400-.

The only compelling advantage of the EOS-M is that you get AF with EF lenses. It is "off balance" with these lenses, but you're presumably carrying the bulk of the weight by cradling the lens with your left hand instead of trying to grip the body, so it's quite usable.


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## paul13walnut5 (May 2, 2013)

Update from digital rev, its going to be white


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## Hobby Shooter (May 2, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Update from digital rev, its going to be white


Then you can add some Hello Kitty stickers on it to look even prettier, my little girls does that to all my stuff. Even on my office laptop...

I have currently a white M at home now trying it out. I have a portrait session booked for Sunday afternoon where I will shoot with my regular camera but want to try this out for comparison. I have played with it a bit today and it feels fine, I have the 22mm lens on. I am working my way through the settings and menus so I don't stumble on Sunday.


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## paul13walnut5 (May 2, 2013)

Good luck for sun.

Doubt i'll have mine by then, going by what I found instore selecting the smaller flexizone option without face detect and in one shot mode it was actually fairly fast and accurate. I generally only use one af point on my slrs for the same reason.

Interested in seeing results.


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## Hobby Shooter (May 2, 2013)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Good luck for sun.
> 
> Doubt i'll have mine by then, going by what I found instore selecting the smaller flexizone option without face detect and in one shot mode it was actually fairly fast and accurate. I generally only use one af point on my slrs for the same reason.
> 
> Interested in seeing results.


Yes, the little I've tried it today it didn't seem that slow. I still have to put my finger on the LCD and all, but alot faster than I've read. It's only a loaner from one of the girls that I will shoot on Sunday.

I'll be happy to post some comparisons with the 5D3 though. The weather is kind of streaky here in Phnom Penh at the moment, the rainy season is coming, but hasn't hit us all out yet. It won't matter that much anyway, because I want a little bit darker style to these photos to fit in a theme. That's what I normally like also.


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