# Am I crazy to even think of switching to Nikon? Here's my gear...



## tonyp (Mar 12, 2012)

My wife and I started up a photography business last year. I'm currently in the process of getting her a camera body. We primarily shoot family portraiture and are moving into weddings this summer. I currently have:

Canon 5d Mk2
Canon 35L 1.4
Canon 50L 1.2
Sigma 85mm 1.4
Canon 135L f/2
Canon 580ex II

I do have the mark 3 preordered but damn the D800 is tempted... I could sell everything and start from scratch... I would lose some money yes, but does Nikon have equivalent primes as Canon does?


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## awinphoto (Mar 12, 2012)

The canon lens lineup is one of Canons biggest strengths over Nikon... unless your wife is planning on selling primarily 30"x40"s or bigger on a routine basis, I think you should be just fine with the 5d3


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## tonyp (Mar 12, 2012)

Well what's happened is I'm reading all these forums about dynamic range, dynamic range, banding banding and it's messing with my mind man! LOL


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## tonyp (Mar 12, 2012)

I mean I have a love affair with the 35L and 135L. 2 of my beloved lenses.


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## Axilrod (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't think it's crazy, I know it's been done plenty of times. I got my 35L/50L from a wedding photographer that had 2 5DII's and almost every L prime under 200mm, definitely more invested than you are. The prints I saw in her place were pretty awesome, and I know she was really happy with the Nikon stuff. Be aware, everything is backwards, you have to click right to open the aperture and left to close it, and I think even the focus ring is reversed.


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## awinphoto (Mar 12, 2012)

With all things considered... these talks about banding, DR, etc... Do you have issue with the 5d2 DR? 5d2 Banding? From what I can tell is this... DR... may be better than 5d2, may be the same, it's up in the air until we get production samples... Banding, I've never really noticed to be honest... Not to say it isn't there, but I'm more into the overall sellable image than pixel peeping looking for issues... the 5d3, from what I gather, removed banding in one direction but not the other? Anyways, if this was a major issue for you in the past, it may be an issue for you in the future... If you loved the 5d2 image quality, you probably will be amazed by the 5d3 with addition to up to 2 stops more usable ISO's, AF, metering, etc etc etc... Nikon has an impressive camera, i'm sure sony will have a very nice camera as well, but it really boils down to what you personally want/need and what issues you have with your current gear and what you need to take your photography to the next level


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## Terry Rogers (Mar 12, 2012)

For weddings I suspect you would be much happier with the low light performance of the 5d3 over the extra resolution of the d800. Additionally, your file sizes with the d800 will be monstrous. I doubt you would notice any perceived differences in dynamic range (if they exist at all as I have not seen any real world tests done yet, only theoretical ones). Besides, if there is an extra stop of DR in the d800, it would be in the iso 100 - 200 range which I doubt you'll be shooting at. Lastly, 22mp is still a VERY large file and there are good algorithms that would allow you to blow it up to gigantic prints (you can still do that with it's native resolution). If you are planning on cropping in VERY tight or blowing up to VERY large images, the d800 might be better for you. But barring that, I think the 5d3 would suite your needs better.


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 12, 2012)

You want a 36mp camera for weddings?!? Really?

Is resolution or a couple of stops of dr actually holding your business back?


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## poker_jake85 (Mar 12, 2012)

The thing that made my decision to switch to NIKON was the price. Extra 500 for the mk iii and it has a worse sensor.


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## jrista (Mar 12, 2012)

tonyp said:


> Well what's happened is I'm reading all these forums about dynamic range, dynamic range, banding banding and it's messing with my mind man! LOL



Thats exactly why I'm trying to combat all that blather!  Don't listen to it...it has no bearing whatsoever on the cameras ability to take excellent photos...its just a bunch of tech heads who like to tear apart hardware and data at a low level and find its flaws (or lack thereof, if that tickles their fancy.)

Its all meaningless in the grand scheme of things! Learn how to use your camera, use it effectively and efficiently, and those issues will only affect a very small percentage of your total photos. If you need real evidence of whether any one of the cameras on the market today, including the 5D II and by extrapolation the 5D III, just look for photos created by them on sites like 500px.com or 1x.com. You'll never see any banding, fixed pattern noise, or DR issues. 

To try and set your mind at ease a bit more, we've all been bickering about DR at an extremely low level, and in terms of extreme situations, where you might need to recover shadows by more than 4 stops. Unless you have rather unique photographic practices where you are regularly photographing scenes with unbelievable DR and can't use an GND filter to balance contrast, its highly unlikely you'll need to recover that much low-ISO shadow DR...ever. Using the more real-world DR numbers from DPR (as contrasted with the very low-level numbers from DXO that have been involved in most of the DR discussions on these forums lately), here is how cameras compare today, in stops of DR @ ISO 100:


Sony Alpha A9009.4Nikon D70009.2Canon 1D IV8.6Canon 1Ds III8.6Nikon D3s & D3X8.5Canon 5D II8.4Canon 7D8.3Nikon D7007.8

The grand total difference from the worst current Canon body, the 7D, and the best current Nikon body, the D7000, is less than a full stop. The difference is even less, from the 1D IV to the D7000, of about half a stop. In terms of more realistic, real-world shooting...you shouldn't concern yourself with the low-level nature of read noise and how it may affect the technical specification of DR.


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## tonyp (Mar 12, 2012)

I know... and I love the Canon bodies... I love the control wheel, I love the joystick.... I think I would miss those tremendously... as lame as that may seem... and I'd miss that 135L lens....


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## V8Beast (Mar 12, 2012)

tonyp said:


> Well what's happened is I'm reading all these forums about dynamic range, dynamic range, banding banding and it's messing with my mind man! LOL



It depends. To switch systems based on rumors and sample images is silly. On the other hand, let's say you can actually try out a D800 first hand and compare it directly to the type of shooting that you do against the 5DIII. If you can distinguish enough of a difference in DR, noise, ISO, or whatever factors most greatly impact your type of photography, and determine that difference is enough to warrant switching systems, then that's another story entirely. 

In this scenario, for me the D800 would have to be substantially better than the 5DIII in order to justify switching systems. If the Nikon were just marginally better for my type of shooting, there's no way I'd switch.


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## awinphoto (Mar 12, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> tonyp said:
> 
> 
> > Well what's happened is I'm reading all these forums about dynamic range, dynamic range, banding banding and it's messing with my mind man! LOL
> ...



Exactly... everything is still up in the air and no real world samples have been provided... So many unknowns... So many assumptions and testing of unreleased photographs... The 5d2 was flamed for being soft, too much NR, low DR when it was first announced... Since then we know that the 5d2 more capable and higher quality than initially mentioned.


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## V8Beast (Mar 12, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Exactly... everything is still up in the air and no real world samples have been provided... So many unknowns... So many assumptions and testing of unreleased photographs... The 5d2 was flamed for being soft, too much NR, low DR when it was first announced... Since then we know that the 5d2 more capable and higher quality than initially mentioned.



To expand on that point, I find "test samples" a little silly as well. Take that Imaging Resource thread that was recently posted with 5DIII ISO samples. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't take photos of napkins and crayon boxes, and olive oil bottles sitting on a table. If I did take images of napkins, crayon boxes, and olive oil bottles under identical lighting conditions, then I suppose the test would be valid. But I don't. 

Ultimately, all that really matters is how your gear performs under the conditions and shooting style that you subject them to. Otherwise, everything else is an apples-to-oranges comparison.


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## vuilang (Mar 12, 2012)

good luck with D800 for the wedding.. 
just be prepare for longer post and bigger cf cards.

BTW.. What is 5d2 holding you back? and regard to the switch with your current gears, ur amount of gears only fall within mediocre range.. so yes, if the switch should be made.. do it now.


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## distant.star (Mar 12, 2012)

My simple-minded answer is simply, yes. You would be looney to think of such a switch. Here's why.

You're in the first stage of building a business. You've got some fundamentals and tools established, and apparently they're working. Why would you consider shaking everything up and essentially starting over? That would add not only another variable to your business plan, but it could put the whole enterprise in jeopardy. It looks like you've got a good set of tools in place that satisfy your needs and you're building on those. 

If you've succeeded five years from now, that's when you look at Nikon and see if they have tools that could give you increased success. If they do, you wouldn't be crazy to think about it then. Today, yes, it's crazy.

Best wishes for continued success with your venture!







tonyp said:


> My wife and I started up a photography business last year. I'm currently in the process of getting her a camera body. We primarily shoot family portraiture and are moving into weddings this summer. I currently have:
> 
> Canon 5d Mk2
> Canon 35L 1.4
> ...


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## meli (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm keeping everything (although I'm thinking of liquidating the 24-70) and next month -depending on the reviews & comments from 1st month guinea pigs- I'm seeing myself in line for a D800 with a 14-24 or 24-70. 
I wont give a single penny to Canon till they get some sense about their pricing policy and the effort they seem to put in their slrs. 
And in my opinion, 5dmk3 doesn't worth the investment right now since I think its price will tumble down more than 500-700$ in less than a year.

I'll always be a Canonite (just look at the beauty of any L lenses comparing with those yellow-black disproportionate things!) but i'll take a break for a bit.


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## samueljay (Mar 12, 2012)

If you do decide to switch, it'd be a great idea to actually hold a Nikon camera to see what they're like. My girlfriend has a Nikon, and whenever I pick it up I have no idea where anything is, or how to change certain settings, their layouts are pretty different, and I think Canon have a really nice layout on their bodies, I guess it's personal preference, I'm sure you could get used to anything though! The other thing is that their lenses go on the opposite way, and their zoom rings are opposite also!


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## Terry Rogers (Mar 12, 2012)

poker_jake85 said:


> The thing that made my decision to switch to NIKON was the price. Extra 500 for the mk iii and it has a worse sensor.



A worse sensor? By what standard exactly? mp? If you think that is the criterion to judge a sensor by, have at it. Maybe we could all start shooting with the 41mp Nokia 808 phone. And everyone with a 1D4 can trade in their cameras for the 7d because it has more megapixels.

If there is some other reason the d800 sensor is better than the 5d3 that has actually been proven, then I will eat my words.

I will concede, once the hands on reviews start coming in and it turns out Sony has produced a miracle sensor that seemingly defies the laws of physics, I will have a great deal of egg on my face. Until then, we'll see.


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## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Mar 12, 2012)

Yes in think you are crazy. For wedding and portrait photography the 5d3 would be much better. The D800 will require more effort get good focus with those smaller pixels and won't get usable images at anywhere near as high iso. Surely you wont be printing anywhere near big enough to need 36 mp? Seems to me 5d3 is the ideal wedding photographers camera. D800 looks better for landscape are studio people.

I am actually considering switching myself. I print 20x30 regularly and want to go bigger. The extra detail is enticing me. The Nikon 14-24mm is another thing that has any Canon landscapers who are thinking of switching tempted... Canon just doesn't have an ultra wide angle that's corner to corner sharp. I'm not trying to make this about me... Just pointing out that I don't think the reasons most canon owners that are considering the switch really apply to you.

As a wedding photographer you should be grinning like crazy over the prospect of the impending arrival of your 5d3... Not torturing yourself over what to do like me


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## wickidwombat (Mar 12, 2012)

since she doesnt have a body yet and you dont have any really wide glass why not consider running with both formats get her a D800 and the 14-24 Nikkor and she can shoot wide and close, great for groups too and you can shoot over the top with the 85 or 135 canon and you get the best of both worlds at least then you can evaluate how each brand works or doesnt for your style and business.

Only downside to this is different charges batteries and flashes are not interchangable


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## tonyp (Mar 12, 2012)

SomeGuyInNewJersey said:


> Yes in think you are crazy. For wedding and portrait photography the 5d3 would be much better. The D800 will require more effort get good focus with those smaller pixels and won't get usable images at anywhere near as high iso. Surely you wont be printing anywhere near big enough to need 36 mp? Seems to me 5d3 is the ideal wedding photographers camera. D800 looks better for landscape are studio people.
> 
> I am actually considering switching myself. I print 20x30 regularly and want to go bigger. The extra detail is enticing me. The Nikon 14-24mm is another thing that has any Canon landscapers who are thinking of switching tempted... Canon just doesn't have an ultra wide angle that's corner to corner sharp. I'm not trying to make this about me... Just pointing out that I don't think the reasons most canon owners that are considering the switch really apply to you.
> 
> As a wedding photographer you should be grinning like crazy over the prospect of the impending arrival of your 5d3... Not torturing yourself over what to do like me



You just don't want me to take your spot in the preorder line do ya!


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## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> SomeGuyInNewJersey said:
> 
> 
> > Yes in think you are crazy. For wedding and portrait photography the 5d3 would be much better. The D800 will require more effort get good focus with those smaller pixels and won't get usable images at anywhere near as high iso. Surely you wont be printing anywhere near big enough to need 36 mp? Seems to me 5d3 is the ideal wedding photographers camera. D800 looks better for landscape are studio people.
> ...



My preorder confirmation from BHP was 12:13am EST on the 2nd for the 5d3... I'm happy with my spot in that line  

My preorders for the d800e were just last week though... On bhp start last week and then on amazon hours after they reopened prebooking last Friday. I should have clicked the preorder on the d800e when it was there on amazon 20 mins after the D800 announcement. I didn't though :-( they closed preorders then and I didn't go for it soon enough

I just wish I could manage to decide whether I want the 5d3 or the D800e... I am tortured when I should be excited !


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## Terry Rogers (Mar 13, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> since she doesnt have a body yet and you dont have any really wide glass why not consider running with both formats get her a D800 and the 14-24 Nikkor and she can shoot wide and close, great for groups too and you can shoot over the top with the 85 or 135 canon and you get the best of both worlds at least then you can evaluate how each brand works or doesnt for your style and business.
> 
> Only downside to this is different charges batteries and flashes are not interchangable



I must admit, the d800e and 14 - 24 combo would be a formidable landscape combination the likes of which canon has nothing that comes close.


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## Daniel Flather (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> My wife and I started up a photography business last year. I'm currently in the process of getting her a camera body. We primarily shoot family portraiture and are moving into weddings this summer. I currently have:
> 
> Canon 5d Mk2
> Canon 35L 1.4
> ...



I'm sure the D800 will be an awesome camera, but I think the pixel peepers are messing with your mind.


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## aprotosimaki (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> My wife and I started up a photography business last year. I'm currently in the process of getting her a camera body. We primarily shoot family portraiture and are moving into weddings this summer. I currently have:
> 
> Canon 5d Mk2
> Canon 35L 1.4
> ...



Rent one and see before making any firm decisions. No tool is perfect; it is how you use it.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Mar 13, 2012)

jrista said:


> Thats exactly why I'm trying to combat all that blather!  Don't listen to it...it has no bearing whatsoever on the cameras ability to take excellent photos...its just a bunch of tech heads who like to tear apart hardware and data at a low level and find its flaws (or lack thereof, if that tickles their fancy.)
> 
> Its all meaningless in the grand scheme of things! Learn how to use your camera, use it effectively and efficiently, and those issues will only affect a very small percentage of your total photos. If you need real evidence of whether any one of the cameras on the market today, including the 5D II and by extrapolation the 5D III, just look for photos created by them on sites like 500px.com or 1x.com. You'll never see any banding, fixed pattern noise, or DR issues.



It is meaningless blather for SOME but not for others. It depends how you shoot, what you want to shoot. I can hit upon the limit often enough that it's annoying, in the REAL WORLD. It's meaningless in the grand scheme for some but not at all for others.

If you plan to shoot 99% at ISO800+ then it is probably 99.99% meaningless.
For some they may run into the issue routinely though, although sure you can still take tons of great pics if you avoid lots of stuff you wanted to do or wanted to do without hours of post.
It depends.

And by constantly saying it's just ridiculous nonsense by tech-heads (was Ansel Adams a tech head? well haha actually he was but you then doubly get the point) all you do it make those mentioned the stuff mention it more to add some balance to all the head in the sand, maybe that ends up having us make it seem like a bigger deal than it is.




> The grand total difference from the worst current Canon body, the 7D, and the best current Nikon body, the D7000, is less than a full stop. The difference is even less, from the 1D IV to the D7000, of about half a stop. In terms of more realistic, real-world shooting...you shouldn't concern yourself with the low-level nature of read noise and how it may affect the technical specification of DR.



Those numbers are not more real-world, they are nonsense and you who makes such a big deal about getting the exact truth well knows that. They way understand the differences when they even have any semblance to reality at all for the RAW shooter in particular.


That said the OP shouldn't just go crazy and do something without examining what their needs, it could at least as easily be that it would mean little to them as a lot, and even if it proves they would benefit a lot from more base DR it might not hurt to see how the 1DX does, if it does much better then maybe the 5D4 will finally do much better and it's then a question can you wait another 2-2.5 years, that can be easier than switching, it depends.

If most of you wedding shots are at ISO800 and up I don't think it would make sense to switch and for wedding shots that you are doing and portraits in what you are doing 22MP is fine and SNR and DR may be no different from mid-iso and up, the new 5D3 AF may be more sensitive in dim light (but you really need to wait for user reports) too. If you did lots of ISO100-200 shots and were often struggling with black tuxes and white shirts and huge DR and couldn't hide it well enough then maybe, but I imagine with use of fill flash and a little hiding in post you can get away with it for your new portrait and wedding business, for portraits you can really have control of all lighting and making use of radical DR shots or not I doubt will make or break you (but losing money switching around might). For portraits you could probably fast shoot two shots for HDR anyway, portaits can be so controlled and I doubt you are doing the sort with a constantly moving model doing this and this but probably purely static, rigid stuff.

That said some people, real world, make great use of D800 DR, I sure wish the 5D3 had the extra DR myself. For you I just have a weird feeling you might just lose money and get annoyed from teh whole swithcing process, at least now.


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## Martin (Mar 13, 2012)

Have the same problem. Lot of Canon lens and would like to switch to Nikon. I am waiting for the reviews however so far D800 has awesome samples, sharpness and DR. Canon just gave us D700, which was launched several years ago. IMHO AF will be same or worse as Nikon (we know canon's great AFs history. Hard decision to make, but there no "WOW" in 5d3. It was when 5d2 was launched (great IQ, high mpix, ISO 100, price and adventage on fast lens). I just don't belive it took 3 years to develop better AF and slightly cleaner high ISO. I do not follow mpix war and marekting however samples from Nikon have really blown my eyes, awesome. Saying same thing about 5d3 wouldn't be true. Another thing is handling and button design etc. Maybe I was used to Nikon , but after using a 5d2 for a year, imho Nikon has far better layout, but that depends on user.
And there is one more thing to consider- I think that 5d3 is a good choice for people that are already invested in Canon, and don't want to loose money, on the other side let's ask yourself a question-what will you buy if u do not have any gear. To be honest I simply envy people who already have good Nikon lens and Nikon FF, they now have opportunity to expand a set with a perfect studio camera, while canon owners, like me, have an opportunity to have better or good AF while other parameters remain almost unchanged. I am not going to write about the price of the body and new 24-70, as the conclusion is clear.


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## Wedding Shooter1 (Mar 13, 2012)

Hey Tony,

I've been doing about 30 weddings a year for about 10 years now. Stick with what you have, it's all great stuff. DO NOT listen to the stuff you hear on here....lol......Just test your new equipment and make sure it's working properly when you first purchase it. Then USE IT! Forget about all this BS that is constantly posted about.

Also, if you are going into weddings my advice is that you have to get a wide angle lens, wider than 35, 16-35 would be perfect....You will definitely be in a situation where you will need it, and if you are literally backed into a corner, say on a rainy wedding day and can't take that group shot or whatever, you are screwed!!....Also you must get another flash in case the one you have breaks down...Ideally you should get 2 more making 3......and also when money permits add a 3rd body in case of any problems....ive had 2 bodies go down on me at 1 wedding, i take 5 bodies with me...

Weddings are a one shot deal...If you F them up because your camera or flashes died leaving you without, you WILL be sued and your career will be over before it started. It is much better to be safe, than sorry...Trust me!




tonyp said:


> My wife and I started up a photography business last year. I'm currently in the process of getting her a camera body. We primarily shoot family portraiture and are moving into weddings this summer. I currently have:
> 
> Canon 5d Mk2
> Canon 35L 1.4
> ...


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## vuilang (Mar 13, 2012)

Short Answer:

Yes, you're crazy.  (you asked for answer)


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## jrista (Mar 13, 2012)

@LetTheRightLensIn:

Here is the simple fact of the real world: Wedding photographers, event photographers, landscape photographers, studio photographers, etc...have all been making FANTASTIC photos, for many years, with digital cameras that have far worse specs than the 5D III. It didn't matter if they had 8 stops, 10 stops, 12 stops or 13.8 stops of DR. It didn't matter if the read noise was 30 or 8 or 3 electrons. It didn't matter if ISO was limited to 800!

An extra stop or two of DR is not the end of the world, and it won't change things much in the real world. Your still going to have to use that reflector or fill flash. Your still going to have to slap on that GND filter. Your still going to need to expose properly, and if you need more saturation for a given aperture and shutter, your still going to have to use a higher ISO rather than a lower one. _Your still going to have to be a cunning photographer._ 8)

It amazes me how all this craziness has ensued (mostly on DPR, but also here) over the LEAST significant bits of ONE particular ISO setting that only matters to a FRACTION of the total number of shots that CERTAIN photographers may take SOME of the time. _Seriously, ppl._ 

I think this thread is particularly indicative of the danger of making such a big deal out of something that really isn't. Poor @tonyp here, who's business is pretty heavily invested in some very expensive Canon lenses, is so _worried_ that the 5D III is an _actual DUD_ that he's literally thinking of switching brands...because the grass on the other side has been hyped up so much one would think it was quite literally a *vibrant, neon green that glowed in the dark and tasted of ambrosia!* I call that...the worrying of the average joe/pro so much that they actually consider wasting money to switch brands...a true disservice to your fellow photographer.



@tonyp: *Keep your gear!* Save you and your wife a LOT of money. There is _absolutely no reason_ to worry that Canon is going to do you, your wife, or your business a disservice, now, next year, or far off into the future. They are an excellent company, they make excellent gear, they provide excellent service (speaking from personal experience, due to my own hands fault on several occasions, it really is EXCELLENT, FAST service), and they _DO_ MAKE A *COMPETITIVE* PRODUCT. ;D 

Save yourself some worry, and realize that you have some fantastic gear already...the 5D III won't be any different. It'll certainly be an improvement over the 5D II on many levels.


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## Seamus (Mar 13, 2012)

vuilang said:


> Short Answer:
> 
> Yes, you're crazy.  (you asked for answer)



Short and sweet. That's how to answer the question.


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## YellowJersey (Mar 13, 2012)

As I've said in numerous other threads, it's premature to seriously consider switching. I'd wait until the 5D3 and D800 are released before you make up your mind.


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 13, 2012)

To be honest I don't think it's premature - I think it's crazy for the majority of photographers full stop. The people whose business may benefit from a third extra resolution and between 1-2 stops dr are relatively few. Maybe landscape photographers the most, but you still have to counter diffraction, and possibly studio photographers who had been considering m.f. A few others doing particularly large prints. That's it. 

I've said it on another board but this frenzy is just because there's something with a bigger number which isn't even that relevant to most people. It's always about "best" and never about "good enough". 22mp is good enough for the majority. 

Personally as mainly a wedding / portrait photographer I don't want more resolution and I don't believe any other wedding photographer should do either. It's just not needed. The 5d3 has great iq as the 5d2 did. I take that over a bit more mp. 

Guys. Seriously. Stop letting the numbers dictate your decisions. In business the only option is to let your profit/turnover make the decisions and switching systems should happen very infrequently and then only when you have a very clear business reason. 

If you can't get that into your head, you won't be in business long.


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## TAR (Mar 13, 2012)

î dont think its a crazy idea..IMO i am also thinking the same but you have great investment in lenses. i dont have any L lens.
here is why i think Nikon is a better investment than canon.

Nikon offering its pro level tech in D800 . i hope it will be same in future ..people will expect to see same AF and metering in D5 and D900 or what ever. ( i hope AF layout and more cross type will be addressed in D900 and D5)

They are really competitive and constantly improving their gear.. offering equal or better lenses , you can expect more better newer lenses for sure.

pricing of nikon is cheaper than canon . D800 , 24-70..etc 

and you can use Nikon lenses with canon with adapter (you all know) yes manual focus ..i dont think its a problem for pro.. 

finally i think Nikon would be a better future investment..i dont think there will be a reason for you to switch back.. anyway i am waiting for a proper d800 vs 5d3 review ..if canon did not decrease a price of 5D3 to 3000 ..i am buying a D800E ..i will invest in nikon .for me FPS is no value ..with my 7D , i never used a high speed ..always single shot. for me images from D800/E raw with 50% reduction at 25600 is usable for me. anyway with 2.8 or 1.4 lenses you dont go more than 6400 iso at night.


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## smirkypants (Mar 13, 2012)

As a person who recently purchased some Nikon gear... you're nuts. I purchased Nikon gear for a specific, definable reason having to do with very clear needs. Your reasons for switching are not compelling at all. For the type of photography that you do, the differences between gear would be marginal at best. Don't do it.


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## bycostello (Mar 13, 2012)

apples and oranges nothing cannon can't do that nikon can and vice versa, save your money and spend it on something worthwhile...


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## elflord (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> My wife and I started up a photography business last year. I'm currently in the process of getting her a camera body. We primarily shoot family portraiture and are moving into weddings this summer. I currently have:
> 
> Canon 5d Mk2
> Canon 35L 1.4
> ...



What are you hoping to gain from switching camera bodies ? Just an opinion, but I think the glass is more important -- so instead of shopping for a camera body and asking if Nikon has "equivalent" lenses, you should look at the lenses from the different manufacturers and ask if the bodies are "equivalent".


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## meli (Mar 13, 2012)

> D800 is going to be challenging to use hand held because there are increased shutter speed requirements due to the smaller pixels.



Perhaps im not sufficiently knowledgeable but i highly doubt this it true, according to your theory that means that in the same scenario you would shot a d700 or 5D1 with 1/40?


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 13, 2012)

meli said:


> > D800 is going to be challenging to use hand held because there are increased shutter speed requirements due to the smaller pixels.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps im not sufficiently knowledgeable but i highly doubt this it true, according to your theory that means that in the same scenario you would shot a d700 or 5D1 with 1/40?


As resolution increases, the shutter speed needed to get a sharp photo *AT 100% ZOOM* increases. If you're happy with shooting and scaling down to 5d3 or d700 resolution, you can get away with a lower shutter speed and still have a visibly sharp image.

For my wedding work I never check focus at 100% 5d2 resolution. If I'm unsure I can get away with something, I scale it down to d700 resolution since that's acceptable focus for my albums.


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## poker_jake85 (Mar 13, 2012)

PhilDrinkwater said:


> As resolution increases, the shutter speed needed to get a sharp photo *AT 100% ZOOM* increases. If you're happy with shooting and scaling down to 5d3 or d700 resolution, you can get away with a lower shutter speed and still have a visibly sharp image.
> 
> For my wedding work I never check focus at 100% 5d2 resolution. If I'm unsure I can get away with something, I scale it down to d700 resolution since that's acceptable focus for my albums.



You do know that is a myth right? 

It's hard to believe you shoot weddings.


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## meli (Mar 13, 2012)

You do realize that with this theory you would have to be even more careful with a simple 7d rather than a D800 and u would need a 100kg tripod for a sony A77 or a 2-ton mount for that 41mp nokia?


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 13, 2012)

poker_jake85 said:


> PhilDrinkwater said:
> 
> 
> > As resolution increases, the shutter speed needed to get a sharp photo *AT 100% ZOOM* increases. If you're happy with shooting and scaling down to 5d3 or d700 resolution, you can get away with a lower shutter speed and still have a visibly sharp image.
> ...



What an exceptionally rude and unnecessary response. You must be great to hang out with.


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## awinphoto (Mar 13, 2012)

PhilDrinkwater said:


> poker_jake85 said:
> 
> 
> > PhilDrinkwater said:
> ...



Phil is correct... with the 7d, it is best practice to shoot 2x the FL of the lens to get a sharp image... This is one of many reasons why people flame the 7d's AF system. While the 7D's full frame resolution would be close to 45MP give or take a few MP, the 36MP would require some care to ensure a sharp image... Basically you are exceeding the resolution and size of the 35mm format... As I've stated many times, 35mm, in film, was printed at a maximum of 11x14 and that was pushing it... now people are printing 13x19's all the was up to 30x40's with interpolation... the bigger you get, the more focus is going to be even more critical and any flaws with lenses and resolution and such will be more greatly magnified. In the past, this size of prints was shot with 645's, 67'x, 4x5's....


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## Pedro Ramones (Mar 13, 2012)

EOS 1DsMKII
1D MKIV
EF 14 2.8L
EF 180 3.5L Macro
EF 300 2.8 L IS USM
EF TS 24 3.5L
EF 16-35 2.8L
EF 24-70 2.8L
EF 70-200 2.8L IS USM

no way in Hell swap to Nikon, been in love with my Canon gear since the F1N back in 1987, never let me down!
and yes, you are crazy lol


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## docsavage123 (Mar 13, 2012)

+1 to Pedro

Yes you are crazy to change.

Until you have the new 5d in your hands and using it why make an assumption that the D800 will be better, I have a load of Nikon friends with D700 and D3's and only 1 a pro I know is getting a D800, he wants it for architecture and Studio, but he now finds he may have an issue with using it with the Nikon tilt and shift lens, which will mean he cannot do exactly what he wants to do.

Sure there is the high megapixel advantage but if you end up having to do all your work on a tripod/monopod due to camera shake, those megapixels are not going to look good then.

I take it your work gets good results with you 5D Mark II, they will get better with the Mark III

The USB 3.0 port on the D800 is irrelevent I only know 1 person who connects his camera to his mac pro laptop and USB 3.0 as far as I know is not appearing on Macs. 

I use laptops and pc's and even though my pc has USB 3 I only use it for my lexar card reader and an external USB 3 Hard drive.

Last but not least - have you seen some of the idiots who post on NR - would you like to have a conversation wih them? Most are bitter twisted and even argue amongst themselves especially over the 36mp/16mp debate.


Your investment in glass is a good one, wish I had some of those


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## tonyp (Mar 13, 2012)

Here's my website where you can see our work to get a sense of our style...  This is our latest shoot...

http://www.thebeeskneesphotographyco.com/2012/03/theodorasbirthday/


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## jrista (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> Here's my website where you can see our work to get a sense of our style...  This is our latest shoot...
> 
> http://www.thebeeskneesphotographyco.com/2012/03/theodorasbirthday/



Amazing work! You guys have real talent! 

You most certainly won't see any improvement over that with the D800 or any other Nikon camera.


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## V8Beast (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> Here's my website where you can see our work to get a sense of our style...  This is our latest shoot...
> 
> http://www.thebeeskneesphotographyco.com/2012/03/theodorasbirthday/



Simply stunning. Great work! You should charge more money


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## tonyp (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm having a hard time getting bookings with my current pricing...  But let's not derail the thread.. hahaha I'M KEEPING MY 5D 3 PREORDER! WHAT WAS I THINKING!


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## docsavage123 (Mar 13, 2012)

Good man,

Cracking website btw!


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## Seamus (Mar 13, 2012)

Good choice! From the looks of your website it does not look like your work is suffering from your current equipment. Now, let's see what that new 5dmiii can do...


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## tonyp (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm really excited about the new autofocus and 6fps especially chasing those little rugrats around.. LOL


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## V8Beast (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> I'm having a hard time getting bookings with my current pricing...



Cheap bastards. This industry is under assault, I tell ya.


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## Seamus (Mar 13, 2012)

tonyp said:


> I'm really excited about the new autofocus and 6fps especially chasing those little rugrats around.. LOL


Positive and upbeat, that's what we need more of... Thanks Tony and good luck in filling your bookings!


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 13, 2012)

poker_jake85 said:


> It's hard to believe you shoot weddings.


P.S And you're welcome to check out my work any time:
Fashion & Beauty: http://www.phildrinkwater.co.uk/
Weddings: http://www.phildweddingphotography.co.uk/


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## grahamsz (Mar 13, 2012)

vuilang said:


> good luck with D800 for the wedding..
> just be prepare for longer post and bigger cf cards.



I'm in the preorder queue for the 5d3 but this seems like such a stupid argument. Why not go back and shoot with the original 1D - think of all the time you'll save in post and the money you'll save in cf cards.

The cost of storing 10,000 photos from a 36MP camera today are FAR less than the same cost for a 21MP 5D2 when it was launched. Same thing for processing time.


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## tonyp (Mar 13, 2012)

PhilDrinkwater said:


> poker_jake85 said:
> 
> 
> > It's hard to believe you shoot weddings.
> ...



Staggering work Phil.... WOW!!!


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## V8Beast (Mar 13, 2012)

PhilDrinkwater said:


> poker_jake85 said:
> 
> 
> > It's hard to believe you shoot weddings.
> ...



You, my friend, are one bad arse mofo ;D Incredible work!


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## thatcherk1 (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm in a dilemma as well. I am definitely getting a 5Diii, but am thinking about selling my mark ii in order to purchase a D800e. Half my work is weddings, half is landscape photography. Then I would buy a 14-24 and maybe a few primes to start out, while keeping all my canon lenses. Apart from the question of money, I don't know if it's wise. Because for weddings my wide, backup body would be a Nikon. I can't imagine not swearing every time I switch from one camera to the other because buttons and switches are in completely different places. I can guess that no one here things that this is a good idea...myself included. But is it worth the benefit which is this: I print 24x36 and larger prints of my landscape photography. I'd like to get more sharpness that I currently do out of my 5Dii for these large prints. Other photographers who I interact with shoot MF. So that's what my stuff compares to.
The biggest reason I think is that I hike and climb for about half my shots. I carry a 5D, TS-E 17mm TS-E 24mm ii. I don't use grads. I take multiple exposures if I need to grad something later. If I went with a D800E, not only would I have extra sharpness, but I would have more DR to work with, thus bracketing less often(I hate bracketing), and no grads necessary. I also could use 1 lens 14-24 and could actually use ND if I needed for long exposures, where the TS-E 17mm it's not possible (without being creative/sketchy).

So I need to decide if it's worth the trade-off, or maybe just save up a little so I can keep my 5Dii as a 2nd wedding camera.

What would also help me to decide if it's worth spending all that money on new lens and camera is a real life side-by-side test. I'd like to see some high dynamic range landscape scenes shot with 5Diii and TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm, then side-by-side with D800E with 14-24 at same focal lengths.

So if anyone who have both on hold, and own these lenses, when you get the cameras, you should do a side-by-side comparison for the sake of us landscape large-printing photographers.


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 13, 2012)

thatcherk1 said:


> purchase a D800e. Half my work is weddings, half is landscape photography. Then I would buy a 14-24 and maybe a few primes to start out, while keeping all my canon lenses.



Obviously none of us have seen the cameras working yet, but I think you present the best overall reason to change (or in your case, add too). I'm looking at getting into landscapes and the d800e + 12-24 would be a great combination.

If my landscapes take off, it's something I would consider too.

You also rightly point out it wouldn't make a fantastic backup, if for no other reason than the moire off clothes..


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 13, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> You, my friend, are one bad arse mofo ;D Incredible work!


Haha thanks


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## Kernuak (Mar 13, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly... everything is still up in the air and no real world samples have been provided... So many unknowns... So many assumptions and testing of unreleased photographs... The 5d2 was flamed for being soft, too much NR, low DR when it was first announced... Since then we know that the 5d2 more capable and higher quality than initially mentioned.
> ...


If I was photographing those things, I'd be using ISO 100 and a triopod . That makes the choice of subject even sillier. Of course the idea is to show the colour fidelity, as well as the detail levels in the more textured areas, but that's fine if you have NR switched off, otherwise all you end up looking at is how much the NR smears the details.


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## V8Beast (Mar 13, 2012)

PhilDrinkwater said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > You, my friend, are one bad arse mofo ;D Incredible work!
> ...



Just curious which body(ies) you shoot with right now?


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## PhilDrinkwater (Mar 13, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> PhilDrinkwater said:
> 
> 
> > V8Beast said:
> ...



5dii only..
(plus a nice selection of lenses  )

Probably every shot from the two sites was taken with it (unless there's a few with my old 5d)


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## jasonsim (Mar 13, 2012)

I too thought about it...and concluded that I myself was crazy to even consider switching out all my lenses to save a few buck on a new D800 instead of a new 5d III. Even if it has 36MP. Nikon does not have equivalents for the 50 f/1.2L or 85 f/1.2L, nor do they have the selection of TS-E lenses IMO. 

Kind regards,
Jason


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## well_dunno (Mar 13, 2012)

Probably, everyone has seen it already but anyway; DxO writes following alongside their hands-on review for mark III:
"First conclusions (before test results)…
The gap between the two rivals has closed considerably in terms of body characteristics and features, finish, viewfinder, etc. But as ever, these cameras differ most in their underlying design philosophies.
Our DxOMark comparative tests for these two reflex cameras and their sensors will definitely measure and determine the veracity of these two principal claims:
The gain in resolution that the Nikon D800’s 36-megapixel sensor should provide.
The gain in sensitivity for the Canon EOS 5D Mark III (we’re betting on this)."

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Canon-5D-Mark-III-Review/Comparisons


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## DanielW (Mar 13, 2012)

All things and opinions considered, let's imagine Nikon's camera is actually better for _your_ particular needs, you'll take better pictures (and will be able to make more money from them!), alright, and you decide to switch to Nikon; you sell all your stuff and buy new lenses, flashes, filters and everything. What if in 2015 (or whatever year) Canon comes up with a 5D Mark IV that's better than the new Nikon D900? Would you switch back to Canon then? I mean, neither Nikon nor Canon (nor Sony, nor whatever brand) will have the best all the time; it's kind of a cyclic thing, I think. This may be Nikon's year; next it'll be Sony's, and then Canon's, and then Nikon's again... In my case, my pictures are not better because of me, not because of my camera, and I'll stick to Canon just because I started with it, no other reason. 
There are millions of folks out there with equipment better than mine, and I just don't care. Sure, I wish I could afford very expensive stuff, but I have fun with what I have anyway. I think we're in a time we can't stand not having the very best; second best just sucks. Maybe we all should think a little about it. 
I'm sure it's not about having fun, it's about earning a living, too. It seems to me you're doing fine with what you already have, and I don't see much room for improvement from switching brands. Will you make more money if you switch? Or is it about having the very best?
Well, that's just the way I think. People may disagree; I'm alright with that... 
Go have fun! Save some money you'd spend switching brands, go visit some interesting country and take nice pics!  That's what I'd do!
Nice work, by the way!


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## Halfrack (Mar 14, 2012)

Unless you're shooting an event that's got Nikon written anywhere - don't change anything. Knowing your gear is more important than the details of it.

If you're shooting an event / wedding / etc where the check will say Nikon, add on an equipment rental fee and hire a second shooter who does Nikon for a living. Ditto for Hasselblad, Pentax, Leica...


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