# Recommendations for lighting system



## Eldar (Oct 1, 2014)

I am sure there are a number of threads on this topic, so I appologize for not having done the search.

Very close to 100% of what I shoot is with natural/available light only. I am even a complete amateur with my 600 flash.

My company is now in need of some updated product images. These images range from small gadget like units, to several large screen control centers (airport tower solutions).

I just saw the offer from a pro and decided that this is something I want to give a go myself. So my question to those of you who know how to do this, is what kind of lighting system would you recommend? I have seen a couple of travel kits, with 3-4 strobes, umbrellas, transmitters etc. But I do not know if they are worth the money. An alternative could be remote controlled 600 flashes.

Any advice and/or recommentation will be moste appreciated.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Oct 1, 2014)

Have you thought about using continuous light illuminators? It's easier to see the result before shooting, and works well for static objects. You can use cheap halogen lamps, and disconnect after the shot to not overheat the environment.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 1, 2014)

For small items, a light tent is a great option. For larger items, controlling unwanted reflections can be a challenge, the suggestion of continuous lights can help (although monolights generally have modeling lights). 

How large is large? Are you talking big screen TV, refrigerator, or dump truck?


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## Eldar (Oct 1, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> For small items, a light tent is a great option. For larger items, controlling unwanted reflections can be a challenge, the suggestion of continuous lights can help (although monolights generally have modeling lights).
> 
> How large is large? Are you talking big screen TV, refrigerator, or dump truck?


The largest item is a 3-screen operating console for an air traffic controller. Width about 10 feet and height about 5 feet.


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## AcutancePhotography (Oct 1, 2014)

First step is to get and read 
Light Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting
by Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, and Paul Fuqua

A really good text book on lighting theory.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 1, 2014)

The book referenced above is excellent. 

I've never done product lighting on something that large, but it occurs to me that the size and presence of reflective surfaces are somewhat analogous to 'studio' shots of automobiles, and there are several online tutorials/tips on lighting cars. 

Good luck!!

BTW, you asked about the quality of the startup studio lighting kits. They are ok, the main issues (without knowing specific kits of interest) are they tend to be less robust and can take longer to set up depending on design. For occasional use, I think they'd be fine. RE the 600's, lighting large objects usually means large modifiers, which means a monolight or ganging 2-4 Speedlites in each modifier, so doing that with 600's is likely not cost effective.


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## RLPhoto (Oct 2, 2014)

I'd get a strobe system or at least rent one for the bigger products. Profoto equipment is usually what rental places have but if your going to buy your own system, PCB einsteins have to be the best value right now.

On another note, product photography is not my forte per say but I found myself with a local client who manufactures SMT vacuum nozzles. (Absolute tiny things.) Here is a photo I used done with einsteins + 36" stripboxs+reflectors. I would stay away from speedlites as they just don't have the Mods to make your life easier when shooting tiny products.

I recommend visiting photigy.com for some serious schooling on product photography and its free.


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## FTb-n (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm primarily an available light shooter. But, 14 years ago, I started exploring portrait work with the Christmas card of the kids (or kid, back then). This was my excuse to expand my light system each year. Now I shoot the group photos at my kids school, portraits for the church and figure skating club, occasional family portraits, and some senior portraits. But, I'm still learning.

First tip, don't buy on anticipation, buy on need. Wait until you have identified a need before you buy more gear.

For small items, a light tent works well (as Neuro mentioned). I have windshield shades made from white Tyvek that I use for a makeshift tent, but I seldom shoot small items. Checkout Amazon or BHPhoto for tents. Or, make your own.

Start with two 60" umbrellas. Learn how to use them and forget about light boxes -- for now. If most of your need is indoor work, I highly recommend the Photoflex 60" convertible for about $52. (Use smaller 45" umbrellas outside if there's wind an no assistant.) These 60" umbrellas are satin white with a removable black cover. I don't use the cover, but it can be great for controlling the light. I use shoot thru and bounce with this umbrella. Incidentally, the black cover is for controlling the spill. It does nothing to affect bouncing the light off the inside of the umbrella. 

Over the years, I have collected lots of 40-45" umbrellas of different types before discovering the 60". I always thought 60" was too big. I wish I had started with the 60". (To be fair, I still use some of those smaller umbrellas, so it wasn't a total waste.)

Consider 12' heavy duty Cowboy Studio light stands from Amazon.com. You can get two for $72. I have 7' stands from Photoflex and Bogen, good stands and more money, but I prefer the Cowboy Studio. The heft with the 60" umbrella is handy. Plus, I like the height option. Frankly, there are lots of good options in stands. Check out stands at Amazon.com and BHPhoto.com and review the comments.

For brackets, get the Manfrotto 026 Swivel Lite-Tight adapter. They are very sturdy metal brackets. You can get plastic multi-brackets for half the price, but at some point you will end up with heavier lights and appreciate the heavier bracket. I wish I had started with these.

I don't have a good recommendation for cold shoes. Manfrotto makes a plastic one which is fine until the the wind catches the umbrella during an outdoor shoot.

For speedlites, start with two Yonguo YN565EXII speedlites and four Yonguo YN-622C remote transceivers. (Why four? They're cheaper two at a time and you will end up with more speedlites down the road.) These speedlites are about $105 each. I started out with the Yonguo YN460-II for half the price, but the YN565EXII are almost twice the power. Plus, when used with the YN-622C transceivers, you can control both the power level and the zoom setting from the menu of you 5D3. This is VERY handy. I don't recommend using ETTL with these units, they can be inconsistent. If ETTL is a must, then you need Canon speedlites. But, I recommend shooting in manual mode where you have more control over the flash and aren't dependent upon the variants in what the camera's light meter sees.

To recap, for a starter system, consider:

- two Yonguo YN565EXII speedlites at $105 each
- four Yonguo YN-622C remote transcievers at $78 per pair
- two 12' Cowboy Studio stands at two for $80
- two Manfrotto 026 Swivel Lite-Tight brackets at $34 each
- two cold shoes (or use the small stand/shoe that comes with each flash)
- two Photoflex 60" convertable Umberellas (UM-RUT60) at $52 each

Total cost, $618. One Canon 600EX-RT is $500. This is my basic system and I find it to be extremely versatile.

I have expanded and often use two speedlites per umbrella using a DIY mount for the Manfrotto bracket. For people shots, I can dial down the power on each flash to speed up the recycle time. This allows me to burst 2-3 shots in a row. Often times, the subject relaxes after the first flash and then gives me a nice smile or look. I like having the option to capture this moment.

Why speedlites over studio strobes? Price, portability, recycle time, and great battery life. Unlike studio strobes, the speedlite will have much quicker duration and can be used to stop the action for specialty shots.

For the record, I have a Canon 430EX Mark I (with the plastic shoe). This is my portable, travel flash. If I do want to use ETTL or need a flash for grab shots, this is the one that I use. For all off camera work, I use the Yonguo's.

Great resource -- www.strobist.com. David Hobby, The Strobist, knows his stuff (but, he doesn't like Yonguo's).

DIYphotography.net is another great site for making your own light gear.

Last tip. Practice, practice, practice. Play with your setup in your house, in your garage, and outside after dark. Get to know what the pattern of the light looks like when you bounce versus shoot thru. Experiment with shadows of makeshift subjects. The more comfortable you are with your gear before a shoot, the better. You don't want to be in front of a client trying to figure out how to setup the flash or control the remote trigger.

Ok, one more last tip. Sometimes the best light is the simplest setup. The Yonguo's come with a little shoe stand. Set up two speedlites, each with its own remote transceiver and stand. Then set them on different tables or even on the floor with the head aimed at the ceiling. Aim one toward a wall if you want a stronger shadow. Depending on the ceiling color, the proximity to walls, and the wall color, this can do a nice job of flooding the room with light.


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## Eldar (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks for the input guys. As expected, there´s no short cut ... I have ordered the book (and a few more) and will take it from there.


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## LDS (Oct 3, 2014)

Eldar said:


> The largest item is a 3-screen operating console for an air traffic controller. Width about 10 feet and height about 5 feet.



It starts to be large enough to require not-so-small light source modifiers and lamps/strobes powerful enough. Also, depending on the location you have to use and your "set" setup, you may need ways to put the lights where you need them, and it could be simple (and cheap) or complex (and probably more expensive).

Check if you could rent the needed equipment, so you can try without investing too much money.

About unwanted reflections from screens, AFAIK often what a screen displays may be added in post production.


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## Eldar (Oct 3, 2014)

LDS said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > The largest item is a 3-screen operating console for an air traffic controller. Width about 10 feet and height about 5 feet.
> ...


The thing is that this is the one chance I have to charge this to my company. The alternative is to hire an external photographer and that will not be cheap for this job. And we have similar needs several times a year, so I want to use this opportunity to buy a good setup.

So our needs are for something as big as this console and down to as small as a 30x30 cm operator panel. But besides that I want to be able to use it both in my planned studio and on location.


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## c.d.embrey (Oct 4, 2014)

*RENT* a Profoto D4 2400ws Pack with heads. I use this set-up all the time for Product shots. BTW I use just two heads (my personal style), but the pack will support four heads. BTW if you don't use something three time a week, it is better, less expensive to rent. I own little, except a light meter, and rent what is needed by the job. YMMV.

With the D4 you can adjust each channel by 1/10 stop. Makes it a lot easier to get perfect exposure. Go to http://media.profoto.com/pages/search.php?search=!collection34 and click-on *D4 Users Guide EN* to down-load a PDF.

Three things. Angle of incidence = angle of reflectance. This means that you can lose a reflection by moving the light up-down / left-right a few inches/feet. The second is shoot at f/8 to f/16 DO, NOT worry too much about diffraction. I use a 5D3 with a 90mm f/2.8 Tilt & Shift and f/16 is not a problem. Third you need to use a tripod.

Also shooting tethered is best. I use Capture One Pro, but Canon has a tethering program. Shoot a shot, then look at your computer screen. Adjust composition, exposure and lighting as needed.


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## DominoDude (Oct 4, 2014)

Thought of you, Eldar, while reading this (http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/ljusskolan-lat-dioderna-leda-dig-ratt.htm).
As I understand it you won't have any substantial need to freeze motion, and then a few sets of LED lights could come in handy. Ease of setup, and ease of seeing beforehand what the light will turn out like, could make it a usable method for you. Perhaps in combination with a ordinary flash or two.

I'm sure you won't have much trouble with the article despite it being written på svenska. Others might not get much out of it since it's not in English. It's mostly general information about LED lights and how they can be used instead of flash / strobe.


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## skoobey (Oct 11, 2014)

Advice: Hire a pro.

Bowens and profoto are excellent.

For smaller things, buy a lightbox, they are cheap and available in multiple sizes, then just add any old flashes, and it'll be easy to nail it every time.

For larger stuff, you'll need softboxes, boom arms etc., it's a job for a pro if you want it to look professional.


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