# Canon EOS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 14, 2017)

```
We’re told that the Canon EOS 6D Mark II will get a brand new and dedicated 26mp sensor.</p>
<p>This keeps in line with the original EOS 6D getting its own sensor.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Known Specifications</strong> (We’ll update this list as we get more information)</p>
<ul>
<li>26mp Full Frame CMOS Sensor</li>
<li>DPAF</li>
<li>DIGIC 7</li>
<li>Wi-Fi</li>
<li>Bluetooth</li>
<li>Vari-Angle LCD</li>
<li>A slightly taller and deeper body over the current EOS 6D.</li>
<li>New battery grip BG-E21</li>
<li>Announcement on June 29, 2017, Shipping in early August</li>
</ul>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## justawriter (Jun 14, 2017)

Wonder if it will ship before the big eclipse in the U.S.


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## Etienne (Jun 14, 2017)

i don't see DPAF on this list.
I hope DPAF is a given now.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 14, 2017)

Etienne said:


> i don't see DPAF on this list.
> I hope DPAF is a given now.



I'm only posting what I can confirm, I think it's safe to say DPAF will be included. I'll work on getting some video specs.


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## Etienne (Jun 14, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > i don't see DPAF on this list.
> ...



Awesome, thanks!


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## CanonCams (Jun 14, 2017)

I am guessing this means June 29th is now CR3 rated? Or is it still CR2?


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## brad-man (Jun 14, 2017)

Does "Vari-Angle LCD" mean it operates on a single plane like the M series, or is it articulated? Also, what can we read into the lack of mention of the AF system? Inquiring minds want to know...


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## Luds34 (Jun 14, 2017)

YES! 26 MP, I can live with that. Not too many that my poor computer can't handle. Of course this next fall/winter might just be time for a new rig anyway.

Anyhoo, as the specs, info has been slowly leaking out this camera is more and more shaping up to be the correct fit for me. Fingers still crossed on the biggie, the AF system. But I'm optimistic it won't disappoint.


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## ScottyP (Jun 14, 2017)

The AF will be considerably improved. It has to be. The old system (which I nevertheless did buy) was roundly excoriated for the needless chintziness Canon showed in over-nerfing it. The old system was behind the competition. The new one has to last 4 years or so and Canon can't let themselves fall even further back over that time. 

Besides, the entry level needs to be enticing, to lure crop shooters into full frame. Wean them off the budget friendly EF-S lenses, slip the red-ringed crack pipe of L-lenses into their hands...


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## Famateur (Jun 14, 2017)

brad-man said:


> Does "Vari-Angle LCD" mean it operates on a single plane like the M series, or is it articulated? Also, what can we read into the lack of mention of the AF system? Inquiring minds want to know...



I believe Vari-Angle is the term for the fully articulating screen. Both my G12 and 70D have articulating screens, and Vari-Angle was the moniker used on the box.

PS: I've been waiting for an articulating screen on a Canon full-frame body for ages! If AF system (number and sensitivity of points) is anything close to the 70D, I'm in.


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## a4jp.com (Jun 14, 2017)

Will this have more focus points or eye focus?


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## sanj (Jun 14, 2017)

Flippy screen. Yayyy!!! Soon it will come to 5 series too. Good good.


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## -1 (Jun 14, 2017)

Famateur said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > Does "Vari-Angle LCD" mean it operates on a single plane like the M series, or is it articulated? Also, what can we read into the lack of mention of the AF system? Inquiring minds want to know...
> ...



Swivel, 80D or flippy, M6? Swivel is for video and flippy for photography... I take pictures and would be disappointed in a swivel. PP


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## In-The-Dark (Jun 14, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > i don't see DPAF on this list.
> ...



If DPAF is in the APS-C entry level T7i/800D, surely, it must be included in the 6DII as well.

How about AF? number of AF points, coverage/spread? Anything?
Thanks.


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## Andreos (Jun 14, 2017)

Have not heard any mention of it, but I hope the GPS is retained.

But dynamic range is the crucial make-or-break wild card!

That, and a headphone jack. :


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## Sidepod (Jun 14, 2017)

hmm, I'd like to see what Canons current sensor tech can perform in terms of noise and DR without DPAF ... if I understand correctly, the result image taken from a DPAF-sensor is basically made of only half of the light that reaches the sensor. Could anyone confirm?


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## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

26 MP
6 fps (previously rumored)
Tilty-flippy (and I think we all assume that will be a touchscreen)
DPAF 

All it needs is a half-decent AF setup and a lot of folks will start asking themselves how badly they need 5D-level niceties like 100% VF coverage, 1/8000 shutter, dual slots, etc.

Because a Canon EF rig that it is 90% as good as the 5D4 _that only costs 60%_ as much will sell well, but it may put a dent into 5D4 sales in the process.

- A


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## hne (Jun 14, 2017)

Sidepod said:


> hmm, I'd like to see what Canons current sensor tech can perform in terms of noise and DR without DPAF ... if I understand correctly, the result image taken from a DPAF-sensor is basically made of only half of the light that reaches the sensor. Could anyone confirm?



Au contraire; the split pixels are individually digitized and then summed up to one value per pixel.


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## Yasko (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> 26 MP
> 6 fps (previously rumored)
> Tilty-flippy (and I think we all assume that will be a touchscreen)
> DPAF
> ...



Ever since I read about your 6D related posts you predict a catastrophy for the 5D like Nostradamus xD.
A full frame camera with modern features of course will compromise future 5D buys... how could it not?
I am waiting for the 6D and I appreciate it having a lower MP count for being a low light expert, although I 
already think about waiting for a EVF full frame to buy... let's see... first world problems


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## Sporgon (Jun 14, 2017)

Wonder if it will continue to have interchangeable focusing screens.


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## RandomRazr (Jun 14, 2017)

Yasko said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 26 MP
> ...



how would the 6d II feature wise compromise the 5d IV?


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## timmy_650 (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> 26 MP
> 6 fps (previously rumored)
> Tilty-flippy (and I think we all assume that will be a touchscreen)
> DPAF
> ...



It might put a dent in 5D sales. But does that matter it is still money for canon and not sony or nikon. There is a lot of people who won't spend 5D money. So if Canon doesn't have a viable option, then most people will buy from a different brand. So selling the 6D will hurt 5D sales and not having a 6D will hurt sales. At least with the 6D then you can sell Lenses and batteries too.


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## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

Yasko said:


> Ever since I read about your 6D related posts you predict a catastrophy for the 5D like Nostradamus xD.
> A full frame camera with modern features of course will compromise future 5D buys... how could it not?
> I am waiting for the 6D and I appreciate it having a lower MP count for being a low light expert, although I
> already think about waiting for a EVF full frame to buy... let's see... first world problems



It won't be a catastrophe by any means -- it will just a harder decision for prospective buyers. 

There was a much bigger/clearer feature-set differentiation going on with the 6D vs. 5D3 decision. I feel the 6D2 is shaping up to have a much stronger value proposition vs. the 5D4 than the 6D did vs. the 5D3.

Hence: tough decision. But that's not necessarily a bad thing for photographers.

- A


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## deorum (Jun 14, 2017)

lets now cross fingers for it to have a decent price, cause the introduction price of 5d4 was discouraging.


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## Stuart (Jun 14, 2017)

I loved my 6D for the low light performance, but missed more & better/faster focus points. Would be very keen to upgrade if its better in these areas once the initial price peak drops.


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## vscd (Jun 14, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> Wonder if it will continue to have interchangeable focusing screens.



The old Canon 6D had changeable Focusscreens? Hmm... didn't know.


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## Dvash7 (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> 26 MP
> 6 fps (previously rumored)
> Tilty-flippy (and I think we all assume that will be a touchscreen)
> DPAF
> ...



This is just guesswork on my part, but I recently sold my 7D and EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 just because of the 6D Mark II. I would never invest in a 5D rig, but I did want to go full-frame.
I'm wondering if the 'dent' in 5D series sales is outweighed by people like me who: a) invest a little more in a full-frame rig as opposed to staying on the more affordable APS-C spectrum; b) will now buy lenses that aren't EF-S and thus cost more.


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## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

This sounds like a very interesting camera. If the first 6D is any marker they will have a new sensor that really ups the ante on the dynamic range. 
The AF specs could well be the thing that makes or breaks it.


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## IglooEater (Jun 14, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> The AF specs could well be the thing that makes or breaks it.


+1
Everything else on it is certain to be basically good. I think some folks would upgrade even if it were just an old 6D with an updated af system.

The other aspect is price. The new 6D is going to need to offer a clear value proposition over one of the bazillion 5D iii's floating around, as it will obviously be a good deal more expensive.


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## tomscott (Jun 14, 2017)

Looking good.

The 5DMKVI is a bit of a hard pill to swallow compared to the upgrade proposition of the 5DMKIII vs 5DMKII. The price is holding strong compared to the III that sank pretty quickly.

The main issue with the 6D for 5D users is the AF selection and the general layout which will stay the same.

I have a 70D 7DMKII and 5DMKIII and the AF selection on the 70D even with its relatively small 19 point af with the multi directional control pad is not what I would call quick or accurate and is so bad compared to the dedicated AF control stick on the 5 and 7 lines.

The 6DMKII will be a fantastic camera, but it will have a designed flaw so 5D users wont be too tempted to either downgrade or side step instead of upgrade I would say this and the build quality/weather sealing will be exactly that.


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## IglooEater (Jun 14, 2017)

Yasko said:


> ... let's see... first world problems



+1


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## dlee13 (Jun 14, 2017)

Looks like it's time to sell my 6D... I'm beyond excited for the upgrade.

Hopefully at least 20 cross type AF points with DPAF, minimum 1/200th flash sync speed and 1/8000 max shutter.


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## brad-man (Jun 14, 2017)

Famateur said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > Does "Vari-Angle LCD" mean it operates on a single plane like the M series, or is it articulated? Also, what can we read into the lack of mention of the AF system? Inquiring minds want to know...
> ...



Thanks! You are quite right about the "vari-angle." Assuming it will be a touchscreen, all I am really interested in is its AF system (obviously) and level of weather sealing (if any).


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## hbr (Jun 14, 2017)

I wonder if it will have GPS like the version I had.


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## Handrews (Jun 14, 2017)

My guess is that it might be a FF version of 80D, from which it might borrow the 45 Cross-type AF points system.
With 26 MP sensor and vari-angle LCD almost confirmed, it should have some more things to differentiate it from 5D series (could be 1/4000 shutter speed, no 4K, no joystick, 1/180 sync, no dual card slots, etc.).

But again, that's just my guess..


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## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

brad-man said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > brad-man said:
> ...




The crunch question on the 6DII may well be AF. One piece so the puzzle is Live View. With the vari-angle LCD and touch screen focusing, the 6DII may well have the edge over the 5DIV in Live View for anyone willing to commit to using a tripod, but how many are really willing to do that? 

With AF through the mirror, the crunch question may be how much is good enough, because the 5DIV will in all likelihood have the edge here. But how many points do you need, and how easy is it to play with them? How much do you care about tracking motion or fps?

Then there is Mr. Wallet's take on this. For Mr. Wallet, being happy with what you have is always an appealing choice.


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## Bernard (Jun 14, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> Wonder if it will continue to have interchangeable focusing screens.



That's the key question for me too.
One way for Canon to protect the SLR market against mirrorless competitors is to offer SLRs that actually work. This means that you can see your image in the viewfinder.

All the 5d models since the 5d3 have been useless for judging focus in the viewfinder.

As I've stated before, Canon is an optics company. making a half-decent viewfinder should not be beyond their grasp.


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## jeffa4444 (Jun 14, 2017)

At 26mp I'm in. I think its a given that the current 11 point AF will be bettered but its wishful thinking to assume it will have the same flash sync and highest shutter speed of the 5D MKIV. It will retain GPS and Wi-Fi and maybe also get NFC and with a flippy screen which will almost certainly be touch screen its a great second camera proposition to the 5D MIV or in my case the 5DS I already have. 
I don't really care about video never used it and don't intend using it on either the 5DS or a 6D MKII Ive dedicated video cameras for that which do a better job. 

If it stays relatively true to the original 6D then I don't think it will damage 5D MKIV sales the layout will almost certainly follow the basic principles of the current camera / 80D and the 5D MIV will retain a higher frame rate, weather sealing, metering system, AF point separation. 

Pretty much every satisfied 6D owner would consider the 6D MKII and a whole bunch of 80D users wanting to go to FF. 

The sting in the tail is this camera will almost certainly see a hefty increase over the present camera much like the 5D MKIV.


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## Billybob (Jun 14, 2017)

Dvash7 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 26 MP
> ...



The 5D and 6D markets are really different. There is some overlap of course, but there are a lot of us who are unwilling to purchase a $3k-plus camera body with just incremental improvements over its predecessors. 

I sold my 5D III a bit over a year ago in anticipation of the 5D IV. It was more camera than I needed, and I wanted a bigger DR improvement. I've been living with the 80D (and my Nikon kit), and am highly unlikely to purchase a 5D-level camera from Canon again. 

Thus, for me to stay with Canon, it's 6D II or Canon FF mirrorless for me or go home. I'd like to see the 6D II have improved DR over the 5D IV, but that's not a dealbreaker (worst DR than the 5D IV would be a dealbreaker!). Improved AF is important, and it would be great to see Canon finally release a DSLR without an AA filter! If the burst rate hits 6fps, I hope that it has at least a 3 sec buffer.

Other than that, I'm easy.


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## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

Bernard said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder if it will continue to have interchangeable focusing screens.
> ...



There seems to be different opinions on why the last couple of 5D's have not had interchangeable screens. One throught is that there are design issues involved. Another opinion is that perverse marketing decisions are at work. Then, it could be about cost cutting or even simple incompetence. Anyway here's hoping that the 6DII has interchangeable screens. Maybe they will implement zebra stripes in Live View.


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## Don Haines (Jun 14, 2017)

Billybob said:


> If the burst rate hits 6fps, I hope that it has at least a 3 sec buffer.



If they finally go to UHS-2 cards, it should be able to keep up with a 6fps burst forever.... or at least until the card fills or battery drains.....


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## smr (Jun 14, 2017)

if it has 6fps and 45 focus points I'm definitely buying, will be selling my 700D and three EF-S lenses.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 14, 2017)

If Canon will give this decent video specs this could really be a huge seller for them for the amateur video crowd. DPAF is great, the articulating screen is great, and some decent video performance would be icing on the cake. I'm pretty comfortable anticipating this new sensor will be a good one.

I too am really in the crowd wanting to continue to have interchangeable focus screens. I continue to have a 6D in my personal kit for that very reason. I have an EG-S screen in there and it is my go-to platform for all my MF glass.


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## vangelismm (Jun 14, 2017)

Just give me af system from 80d and we are good.


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## K (Jun 14, 2017)

I expect Canon to nerf it with a 19pt AF system or something weak, along with 1 card slot. Those two things are major points for someone who might be a 5D4 buyer to consider. That's how you retain those customers from "getting it done cheaper" ...

The first rumors are out - and what isn't mentioned? AF. Also slots. What's promoted? New sensor and tilt screen. As I said before, the appeal of this rig will be new sensor and tilt screen. 

One card slot and 1 AF point (center) is enough to make many users happy - and that's what Canon is betting on. Those two features are a sort of dividing line between groups of buyers. Better AF and a dual slot is welcome by all, but it isn't a deal breaker for the one group of people, as evident on this forum. This gives Canon the ability to safely nerf the camera and put the squeeze on those needing said features. Forcing an upsell where one isn't mandated by market forces. Meanwhile, the group happy with the nerfed features is saving absolutely nothing for getting stuck with less. It is merely their acceptance of lower specs compared to competitors that makes it possible. The apologists defend this on this forum by essentially arguing their main concern is Canon's profits, not their own interest in obtaining the most bang for their buck. Bizarre.


The 5D4's build quality and weather sealing is NOT the main appeal at all...


I hope I'm wrong about the above, but does anyone seriously believe we're going to see a high performing AF system with dual slots in a 26mp, new sensor FF Canon body at 5-6fps? I assure you would murder 5D4 sales. Especially given that the 5D4 has departed from video losing another angle of appeal - what exactly is the appeal of it then compared to such a theoretically specced 6D2? Nothing.

Given what competitors are putting in cameras at $1,500 - $2,000 ... it's an obvious nerf because Canon is competing with itself and milking its own users.

Again, I eagerly await to be wrong.


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## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

Bernard said:


> That's the key question for me too.
> One way for Canon to protect the SLR market against mirrorless competitors is to offer SLRs that actually work.



What a dumb statement. SLRs do work and have done for over 100 years. 



> Canon is an optics company. making a half-decent viewfinder should not be beyond their grasp.


They do make a very decent viewfinder. What you seem to want is EVF which is not about optics.


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## Hector1970 (Jun 14, 2017)

I think the price might shock. It's not far off a 5DIV in specs. It Will certainly affect 5DIV sales if there is a price gap. That 6DII looks like all a lot of photographers would ever need.


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## K (Jun 14, 2017)

Billybob said:


> it would be great to see Canon finally release a DSLR without an AA filter!




I'm one of those people who prefers having the AA. It really does cut down on ugly, impossible to fix moire in images. It isn't just the patterns, but also the color distortion that arises. 

A lot of folks are so obsessed with sharpness that can only be realized on a computer screen at 1:1, which has almost zero practical use short of some insane crop - at the expense of an occasional (not rare) moire issue which does impact practical IQ (prints and normal sized viewing). Doesn't always arise, but when it does it is nasty.

That whole issue is really about whether or not photographers and those who view images still have a discerning eye. In an age where cell phones are the average standard - I suspect no one notices or even cares about moire anymore. That's Nikon and Sony's bet.

If your images are going to be scrutinized by knowledgeable people - the last thing you'll get a bad mark on is the all-out sharpness. Perfect focus is not the same as total sharpness.


Canon offers no AA in the 5DSR, or at least a "cancelling" effect filter. I think that's as good as it will ever get.

Another thing which is weird is, since forever camera and lens makers have been trying to eliminate or reduce chromatic aberration in an effort to achieve the best possible IQ. Between some of the most advanced lenses and coatings, to internal camera processing to find and eliminate it - it has been an issue in the quest for better IQ since the beginning. YET...all of a sudden, in the modern digital era -- after all the progress as been made on that, people have thrown it all away to accept moire! If people are ok with moire - why not be ok with CA? Again, most society that is ok with cell phone images won't notice or care....



Canon doesn't take a ding for having an AA at the expense of pixel-peeping max sharpness...because at any normal viewing size, whether on a screen or in print -- it simply does not matter. The every so slightly blurred Canon image is completely undetectable at normal print or viewing sizes. The images are razor sharp and great looking.


They only lose out on camera nerds who shoot to view in Lightroom, and that's it. BTW, this is the same crew that obsesses over having massive dynamic range. The dudes who underexpose then do extreme exposure and shadow lifts.


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## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

Hector1970 said:


> I think the price might shock. It's not far off a 5DIV in specs. It Will certainly affect 5DIV sales if there is a price gap. That 6DII looks like all a lot of photographers would ever need.


Is that a problem? Maybe this is a realignment of the Canon range alogn the lines of
1Dx - top range camera. Excellent for wildlife and sports, rugged as hell
5D range - a 1Dx for those who don't need the bomb-proof build or the inbuilt portrait grip, and whose shooting is general enough that people don't _really_ need 14FPS and whizz-bang top-of-the-range AF (nice if you can get it but not a dealbreaker)
6D2 - the generalist snapper and professional's back up. AF not quite as the 5D range and build a little less solid
This would mean they are missing an entry-level FF camera, but I am wondering if this is needed. The image quality of the 80D is so damned good, and so few people print anymore do they really need FF? Which means the 80D successor takes the place of the current 7D2, and the 7D2 moves up to just below the 6D2.


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## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> I'm one of those people who prefers having the AA. It really does cut down on ugly, impossible to fix moire in images. It isn't just the patterns, but also the color distortion that arises.
> 
> ...



As I understand it, moire is related to pixel pitch and with increasing pixel density the issue of moire is reduced which reduces the need for the AA filter. I have no idea at what pixel pitch the AA filter becomes less important but I guess whether an AA filter is important to you depends on what you take pictures of.


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## tr573 (Jun 14, 2017)

I've been yelled at for pointing this out before, but I'll point it out again. The distinction between 1/180 and 1/200 flash sync speed is basically meaningless. It's a sixth of a stop. In the real world the only difference it makes is that a different number is printed on the box for marketing.


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## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the price might shock. It's not far off a 5DIV in specs. It Will certainly affect 5DIV sales if there is a price gap. That 6DII looks like all a lot of photographers would ever need.
> ...



Quieter operation is also a 5D feature in comparison to the 1Dx, along with a somewhat less intimidating presence.

Is the FF entry level slot a place for FF mirrorless?


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## K (Jun 14, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> Billybob said:
> 
> 
> > If the burst rate hits 6fps, I hope that it has at least a 3 sec buffer.
> ...




There's some controversy over this. The technology has been out a long time....adoption of it in cameras has been extremely slow. To the point that they still implement card tech that is for the most part obsolete.

Some cite that it is technical issues with reliability. The tech world has no issues with reliability. Could also impact battery life and other factors. I believe this is a legit concern. Given that even with already well established, decade-old tech occasionally these cameras run into card issues. Although, for that I would argue it is poor implementation and QA, not the tech itself.

I think the above is a part truth, part excuse. I think they don't mind dragging their feet on card technology - because fast cards means much faster buffer clearing, which then means longer continuous shooting and/or faster FPS.

When you start talking longer continuous shooting, people then start to pick on buffer size. It also challenges their cheap and easy ability to nerf/cripple cameras for segmentation. Which is the same as keeping FPS down. There's no doubt that certain cameras have shutter mechanisms and processors capable of a least 2-3 more FPS...but it is a choice to keep them down. You see what happens is, if they drop a UHS-II in there, people will then show how 2 different models of camera share the same shutter mechanism and processor they will naturally ask why is one faster than the other. They then have to admit they cripple the camera to separate them out. 

Notice how they only put the newest card tech in the higher end cameras...hmm. That's why it's mostly excuse. You can blame the card for not writing fast enough.

Oh, and no one can cite costs. The PC industry is absurdly hyper competitive battling over the low margins where pennies matter -- and the introduction of UHS-II hasn't come at a price hike for consumers. Sometimes, the latest and greatest is introduced and prices reduce!


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## davidj (Jun 14, 2017)

You all seem to be talking about the 6D II competing with the 5D IV, and thinking that the 6D II will have to be sufficiently nerfed to not compete with the 5D IV. Don't forget that there's a very competent Nikon D750 (and soon D760) that the 6D II will be competing directly against, so Canon can't limit the camera too much.

My wish is that the 6D II will go slightly upmarket, with it being an all-round very capable camera, just less so than the 5D IV, and the original 6D will hang around as a base model until replaced by a FF 8D (or mirrorless?).


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## K (Jun 14, 2017)

It's funny how the general attitude is that the 5D4 is on the verge of being taken over by the 6D2 with only the talk of a new sensor, which was a given.

The vast majority of specs have not been leaked yet. 

Canon is pay to play. The barrier to entry in Canon land is $3,300 

Remember that.

Brace for the nerf! **incoming**

8)


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## K (Jun 14, 2017)

davidj said:


> You all seem to be talking about the 6D II competing with the 5D IV, and thinking that the 6D II will have to be sufficiently nerfed to not compete with the 5D IV. Don't forget that there's a very competent Nikon D750 (and soon D760) that the 6D II will be competing directly against, so Canon can't limit the camera too much.
> 
> My wish is that the 6D II will go slightly upmarket, with it being an all-round very capable camera, just less so than the 5D IV, and the original 6D will hang around as a base model until replaced by a FF 8D (or mirrorless?).



This has been one of my angles for a long time, but apparently Canon doesn't compete with Nikon. 

The 6D was much weaker than the D610 in most areas. But but but...it still sold. We've heard this ad nauseam.

D750 hits way above its weight class. Bigtime. That's the best bang for the buck FF on the market, or maybe of all time.

For a new user -- what is better? Dealing with a crippled 6D2? If not, then up selling to a 5D4 for $3,300 ..??

*For $3,300 you can get both a D750 AND a D500*. The D750 gives you amazing IQ, great AF, dual slots, big dynamic range. You have no shortcomings here, except maybe 1/8000 shutter... lol. And the D500 gives you 10fps, even better AF and the best crop sensor ever made. 

And they can't argue that the D820 will be $3,300 also - because that's their high rez model, which is like Canon, to get high rez means a whole other $3,000+ body like the 5DS line.

Canon glass is not that much better to overcome a D500 & D750 body combo for $3,300. Incredible value and capability right there. 

I hope that is enough reason for Canon to provide the 6D2 with some more up to date specs.


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## Billybob (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> Billybob said:
> 
> 
> > it would be great to see Canon finally release a DSLR without an AA filter!
> ...



Lol, I'm from the opposite camp. I've been shooting cameras without AA filters since 2012 (yes, Nikon), and find that I have to pixel peep to see the moire. Yes, it's there in a few shots, but it hasn't been bad enough to cause problems. Thus, if I name called, I would probably employ a dismissive epithet to refer to photographers who shun moire and CA (the former, which in the small amounts that I occasionally see in my photography can be removed with a bit of effort, and the latter, which can be removed with almost no effort at all). 

But I don't dismiss those concerns because I know that for some types of photography moire can be an abhorrent nuisance that takes the joy out of photography. However, please have the courtesy to appreciate that there is photography for which large DR and sharpness are also highly valued.

Anyway, there's little to suggest that Canon is going to change its practices re AA filters, so you have little to be concerned about.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Billybob said:
> ...



You keep on whining repeatedly about 'nerfing'. Have you ever considered it is 'designing to a price' - every company does it an any company who does not goes bust. 



> There's no doubt that certain cameras have shutter mechanisms and processors capable of a least 2-3 more FPS...but it is a choice to keep them down


Choice to keep the rice down....certainly. 
I would love to understand your knowledge that this camera falls into the bracket of being able to shoot at least 2-3 fps more.



> people will then show how 2 different models of camera share the same shutter mechanism and processor they will naturally ask why is one faster than the other. They then have to admit they cripple the camera to separate them out


You make a supposition then immediately treat that supposition as fact. Do you have any evidence for this. I am genuinely interested in you level of insight.


----------



## Billybob (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > You all seem to be talking about the 6D II competing with the 5D IV, and thinking that the 6D II will have to be sufficiently nerfed to not compete with the 5D IV. Don't forget that there's a very competent Nikon D750 (and soon D760) that the 6D II will be competing directly against, so Canon can't limit the camera too much.
> ...



Good observations.

For the 6D line, Canon doesn't compete with Nikon. Instead the 6D II will need to compete with the 6D. If a flippy screen and a marginally higher-resolution sensor (yes, 26MP especially with an AA filter--I know, I can't get over that--will not produce significantly better results) are the major selling points, there is little reason to upgrade. Improve the AF, increase the burst rate, add the dual pixels, improve video, keep the size small, and the camera becomes an interesting if not compelling upgrade. And it won't have 1/8000 shutter nor a second card shop.


----------



## leadin2 (Jun 14, 2017)

I'm curious on the price. Canon is still selling (body only) 5D3 ($2300) and 6D ($1300), with the current 5D4 ($3300). 6D2 will probably be $1900 at launch?


----------



## K (Jun 14, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> You keep on whining repeatedly about 'nerfing'. Have you ever considered it is 'designing to a price'



No.

D750

51pt AF, 24mp, 6fps, dual slots, tilt screen


And please don't argue that Nikon is having financial issues because of how they specced the D750. They were losing money on other products and have operational efficiency issues. Search the web. They are going to focus more on cameras like the D750 that brings in the business because its a great value.


----------



## K (Jun 14, 2017)

dlee13 said:


> Looks like it's time to sell my 6D... I'm beyond excited for the upgrade.
> 
> Hopefully at least 20 cross type AF points with DPAF, minimum 1/200th flash sync speed and 1/8000 max shutter.




Save up another $1,300 for a 5D4. 

;D


----------



## tomscott (Jun 14, 2017)

Chill K sounds like your going to have a heart attack...


----------



## Neutron_K (Jun 14, 2017)

In-The-Dark said:


> If DPAF is in the APS-C entry level T7i/800D, surely, it must be included in the 6DII as well.
> 
> How about AF? number of AF points, coverage/spread? Anything?
> Thanks.



I really hope they don't undermine 6d2 like they did to 6d... Otherwise I will have to get 5d4 with broken teeth (as I would bite them hard). 

I have to admit that I am getting a little impatient about it. The only thing holding me off right now is that I am waiting for 5d4 with pre-loaded c-log to be in stock.


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > You all seem to be talking about the 6D II competing with the 5D IV, and thinking that the 6D II will have to be sufficiently nerfed to not compete with the 5D IV. Don't forget that there's a very competent Nikon D750 (and soon D760) that the 6D II will be competing directly against, so Canon can't limit the camera too much.
> ...



Nikon 600D didn't work out too well, especially with the Nikon response to the 600D problems. To some extent, Nikon's problems contributed to the early success of the "nerfed" 6D, along with the fact that it actually worked. But the reasons for the success of the 6D are now ancient history. As you say, let's hope for solid specs for the 6DII. 26 mp DPAF and a tilty flippy screen seem like a good start to me, especially for Live View, but who wants to be bothered with a tripod? I guess we will find out.


----------



## james75 (Jun 14, 2017)

leadin2 said:


> I'm curious on the price. Canon is still selling (body only) 5D3 ($2300) and 6D ($1300), with the current 5D4 ($3300). 6D2 will probably be $1900 at launch?



I'm guessing the starting price will be about a 1,000 cheaper than the 5d4, coming in at $2,499. I hope its not quite so high because I won't want to spend that much to get one. if it's around the $2,000 mark then it's an instant purchase for me.


----------



## Neutron_K (Jun 14, 2017)

james75 said:


> leadin2 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious on the price. Canon is still selling (body only) 5D3 ($2300) and 6D ($1300), with the current 5D4 ($3300). 6D2 will probably be $1900 at launch?
> ...



Well that is a concern. I am not a fan of pricey camera. But 6d2 seems to have a lot of upgrades and shouldn't be too cheap. Otherwise you will expect some crucial flaws.


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

leadin2 said:


> I'm curious on the price. Canon is still selling (body only) 5D3 ($2300) and 6D ($1300), with the current 5D4 ($3300). 6D2 will probably be $1900 at launch?



Likely depends somewhat on specs we don't know about yet--AF especially. Maybe $2000 if they really design to cost, up to $2200 with more features. At this point it's a guess, but if the were really trying to keep the cost down I don't think they would be putting the tilty/flippy screen on it.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 14, 2017)

I think the 5DIII will eventually be discontinued and the 6DII will take the price point right above the current price the 5DIII. This is pretty much what happened when the 6D came out and the 5DII was discontinued. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the 6DII (with kit lens) was $2500-2700. But then after time it'll settle to $2200.


----------



## Bernard (Jun 14, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > That's the key question for me too.
> ...



Mike,

Determining the exact plane of focus is essential to my style of photography. The non-interchangeable screen in the 5d3/4/5 and 5ds/5ds-r don't let me do that with any confidence using the optical viewfinder.

I get that it's not a problem for you, but it is for myself and others.

I am quite familiar with EVFs, by the way. I want an SLR with a focus screen that is suitable for manual focus. Canon offers such a screen on the 1Dx-2 and 6D, so it would be great if they could continue to do so on the D's replacement.


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > You keep on whining repeatedly about 'nerfing'. Have you ever considered it is 'designing to a price'
> ...



Fair enough. I too doubt that development costs of the 750D directly had much effect on the Nikon bottom line. On the other hand, I really doubt that they are recovering costs selling the 750D for $1500 and wonder what volume they would have needed to break even at the original price point, not that we will ever know for sure.

If the 750D floats your boat, now is the time to grab one, no question. On the other hand, by their own admission, Nikon has had serious problems selling and servicing cameras and making money at it, and it is not clear to me that they are out of the woods. Something that somebody thinking about buying into a camera system might want to think about.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

BillB said:


> leadin2 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious on the price. Canon is still selling (body only) 5D3 ($2300) and 6D ($1300), with the current 5D4 ($3300). 6D2 will probably be $1900 at launch?
> ...



I could be wrong, but I think a tilt-flippy was a day one assumption when they drew up the first rev of the design.

I could be proven wrong, but I believe the mission for 6D2 design-wise was:


DSLR camera
FF sensor of no higher resolution than the 5D4
Key upgrades over the 6D1: Tilty-flippy, DPAF, NFC or Bluetooth

...and from that point, they jammed as much tech in there as they could to hit price and cost targets. I really think it was as simple as that.

- A


----------



## leadin2 (Jun 14, 2017)

bereninga said:


> I think the 5DIII will eventually be discontinued and the 6DII will take the price point right above the current price the 5DIII. This is pretty much what happened when the 6D came out and the 5DII was discontinued.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the 6DII (with kit lens) was $2500-2700. But then after time it'll settle to $2200.



5D2 did stay a while longer and dropped further in price. That's how I snapped my first FF camera. There are probably a bunch of people still waiting to compare and enter to buy. The model they choose will depend on which specs they can settle with, versus the dollar.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > You keep on whining repeatedly about 'nerfing'. Have you ever considered it is 'designing to a price'
> ...



Canon 6D outsells the D750 but the 6D has a lower spec according to you.
Please explain Canon's incentive to beat the D750 on price. There isn't one because even you admit you still buy Canon. Until you (and thousands like you) put your money where your mouth is and switch to Nikon, Canon _has no incentive_ to change its strategy.
You are part of the problem.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

james75 said:


> leadin2 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious on the price. Canon is still selling (body only) 5D3 ($2300) and 6D ($1300), with the current 5D4 ($3300). 6D2 will probably be $1900 at launch?
> ...



Remember, based on the 5D2 / 6D past history, 5D3 will go poof on/about the time the 6D2 gets announced. So I'd take that out of the equation.

I see this more or less at the prior original asking price of the 6D1: $2099 for body only

Keep in mind, we've only seen one of the 'horsepower specs' confirmed to CR3 thus far, the resolution. The other two of those horsepower specs -- fps and # of AF points -- are still unconfirmed. 

One might imagine [26 MP x 6 fps x 45 AF points] might command higher asking price / drive higher interest levels than [26 MP X 5 fps X 19 AF points]. There's a ton more to a camera, of course, but those three metrics (along with sensor size, of course) are the first pass, 'judge a book by it's cover' sort of items on the spec list.

- A


----------



## cellomaster27 (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> james75 said:
> 
> 
> > leadin2 said:
> ...



Yes! AF is the only thing that is really important for me.. the 9 AF points on the 6D just made it so so weak. I'm thinking that they'd have at least 19 AF points? I predict 19-30 AF points, all cross type.


----------



## Joycreate (Jun 14, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the Canon EOS 6D Mark II will get a brand new and dedicated 26mp sensor.</p>
> <p>This keeps in line with the original EOS 6D getting its own sensor.</p>
> <p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Known Specifications</strong> (We’ll update this list as we get more information)</p>
> <ul>
> ...


[size=36pt]*WHAT I AM CONCERNING IS WHETHER IT HAS 4K OR NOT*[/size]


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I could be wrong, but I think a tilt-flippy was a day one assumption when they drew up the first rev of the design.
> 
> I could be proven wrong, but I believe the mission for 6D2 design-wise was:
> 
> ...





ahsanford said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > leadin2 said:
> ...



I agree with what you are saying. I think the tilty/flippy was a given from the beginning too. What I was trying to say was that for Canon some features in the 6DII design were at least as important as minimizing cost (and including those features will have an effect on the final price). One feature we don't know yet is the AF system. My guess is they are not going to cheap out on that one either (meaning it will be the 45 point system--I doubt they designed a new one, but who knows.)


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

cellomaster27 said:


> Yes! AF is the only thing that is really important for me.. the 9 AF points on the 6D just made it so so weak. I'm thinking that they'd have at least 19 AF points? I predict 19-30 AF points, all cross type.



19 AF points one would think is the low end. High end might be more like the 80D's 45 points. 

But again: [26 x 6 x 45] is not terribly far off of the [30 x 7 x 61] of the 5D4. So if Canon made such a 6D2 as that, one would argue they will need to keep something sexy out of the 6D2 to justify their (guessing) $2099 vs $3299 body-only prices -- and I'm talking about more than just the 5D4 things we generally presume the 6D2 isn't going to get (100% VF coverage, tough metal build, etc.).

To me, those things are the features on the fence that a lot of people want: 4K, AF joystick, high number of the AF points working at f/8, dual slots, faster flash sync, 1/8000 shutter, etc. My presumption is the 6D2 will get _some but not all_ of that list.

- A


----------



## james75 (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> james75 said:
> 
> 
> > leadin2 said:
> ...




Oh, okay. I wasn't aware the original 6d had a asking price of 2,099, I thought it was around 2,300. If it is priced around $2100, then even better.


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 14, 2017)

ScottyP said:


> Wean them off the budget friendly EF-S lenses, slip the red-ringed crack pipe of L-lenses into their hands...



Dang Scotty! That has to be the funniest line I've read in awhile. ;D


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 14, 2017)

Dvash7 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 26 MP
> ...



I think Scotty said it best:



ScottyP said:


> Wean them off the budget friendly EF-S lenses, slip the red-ringed crack pipe of L-lenses into their hands...



However, my hunch is that the non-L lenses are more the cash cow for Canon. This forum is very lopsided to the top line of products and some people like to believe that the high end is where the big money is made. I suspect the opposite based on sheer volume alone. Somebody is going to ask whether I have sales figures to prove this. No, I don't. But the same people don't have sales figures to disprove it either. 

I do agree with Scotty. Red rings are the camera world equivalent of crack.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 14, 2017)

> WHAT I AM CONCERNING IS WHETHER IT HAS 4K OR NOT



Well, the UHD on the 5DMk4 is pretty poor (spec wise) so if the 6DMk2 has UHD, it's going to probably be awful 

Seriously, the 5DMk4 can only do 2160p30, which as an industry standard totally sucks, and in four years time, when the camera will likely be replaced, it will be beyond a joke.

As for the 6DMk2, how do you make the video modes even worse than the 5DMk4? Older Codec? lower bitrate? lower framerate? (that would be super omg) lower resolution (don't laugh) WQHD (2560×1440) or even 2K? (2048×1080) (with a vertical resolution of 1080, does that still fall in to HD?)

Anyway, I would rather get DPAF, 45 AF Points, good DR and have video limited to 1080p rather than lose any of those features at the expense of a really crappy UHD solutions.

The new C Log on the 5DMk4, is this for WCG / HDR? Perhaps this will be something that they leave off the 6D Mk2 with no possibility for upgrades.

If you really want UHD @ 30fps, buy a go pro, cheap as chips


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> The apologists defend this on this forum by essentially arguing their main concern is Canon's profits, not their own interest in obtaining the most bang for their buck. Bizarre.
> 
> Again, I eagerly await to be wrong.



That makes sense. Your statement above is wrong, and shows a clear lack of comprehension. But it's good that you're looking forward to being wrong again, I'm sure you won't have long to wait.


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> cellomaster27 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes! AF is the only thing that is really important for me.. the 9 AF points on the 6D just made it so so weak. I'm thinking that they'd have at least 19 AF points? I predict 19-30 AF points, all cross type.
> ...



45 points without a joystick could be its own punishment. The 80D 45pt AF has 27pts working at f8, IIRC.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Seriously, the 5DMk4 can only do 2160p30, which as an industry standard totally sucks, and in four years time, when the camera will likely be replaced, it will be beyond a joke.



WoW! Better stick the knives into the 1Dx2 then because in 4 years time technology will have moved on. Same for the A7Rii, A9, X-T2 and all the others.

Canon's explanation for their choice of codec is that they looked at the typical user - that is, not the people expecting pro grade video at a DSLR price - and took the view that they are casual short-segment video shooters who want to be able to edit video strips without relying on maxed-out computers to do so. It is hard ot argue against that rationale. 
But the old adage applies - give them an inch and they want a yard. Give them a sniff of technological possibilities and you can guarantee some self-important subset numbering in the single-digit percent will complain they did not go further.


----------



## jmoya (Jun 14, 2017)

Aren't these things suppose tp be getting smaller not larger. I liked the original 6d size but I guess with the flip screen the size needed to go up. Regardless...26mp is just right. I now need it to shoot at least 1080 at 60fps and have good low light. Sony and Nikon is killing the dynamic range game.


----------



## FramerMCB (Jun 14, 2017)

timmy_650 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 26 MP
> ...



Buyers in the market for a FF rig are a mix of hobbyists, serious hobbyists, semi-pros, and pros. That said, their needs and desires cover a broad range in what they are looking for/need. I believe as others here have posted that like the 6D did when brought to market, it was a great seller for many reasons. 1. It gave pros that already had the 5D III a viable, cheaper backup option (depending of course, largely on the specific needs of a pro that would/could consider it as such). 2. For hobbyists with funds and serious amateurs and semi-pros or those considering going that direction a good-to-great option for entering the FF marketplace. (Keep in mind I'm speaking mainly of those already invested in the Canon ecosystem.) 3. An option for those holding out on the digital revolution that were still shooting film, a camera that wouldn't break the bank, would take photos comparable to film, and because of it's interchangeable focusing screens allow them to shoot legacy glass far, far easier than most any other digital camera on the market (at the time) no matter the brand.
I'm sure there are other marketing cases/customer demographics as well.

The 6D Mk II will do the same. Only this time around, will also include the demographic of current 6D owners. Mk IV owners will seriously consider the 6d Mk II as a backup body. I am supposing that Canon hopefully has learned a thing or two since the 6D was introduced and will give the Mk II more robust weather sealing, along with what I'm betting will be an AF system that will be awesome but still not make the naysayers happy. 

We have but a few more days to wait. We live in fabulous times as photographers, whether pro or hobbyist. The tech going into today's cameras is amazing and all camera manufacturers are pushing the envelope and each other to greater and greater heights (cameras). From the revolutionary (from a premium build/sensor/articulating screen/J-peg engine (when properly calibrated)) Pentax (Ricoh) FF K-1, Fujifilm's excellent and improving XT's, Olympus and Panasonic 4/3rds systems, premium Leica and Hassleblad works of shooting art, Sony's amazing tech that is revolutionizing at least part of the digital market, to Nikon and Canon continuing to design and build models that are intriguing, enticing, and just plain great. There is something for everyone and every type of shooter. (And I haven't even included here the pretty amazing things you can do with smartphone camera's or some of the point-and-shoot models...)

Good times! So be happy. Find the model you want/need and get shooting!


----------



## FramerMCB (Jun 14, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, the 5DMk4 can only do 2160p30, which as an industry standard totally sucks, and in four years time, when the camera will likely be replaced, it will be beyond a joke.
> ...



I agree with your statement here...1000%.


----------



## FramerMCB (Jun 14, 2017)

jmoya said:


> Aren't these things suppose tp be getting smaller not larger. I liked the original 6d size but I guess with the flip screen the size needed to go up. Regardless...26mp is just right. I now need it to shoot at least 1080 at 60fps and have good low light. Sony and Nikon is killing the dynamic range game.



Well Nikon is using Sony sensors. If you want a low-light performer extraordinaire I would suggest you check out the Pentax K-1. A word of caution though, it's video specs/performance seems as more of an afterthought and is aimed more at stills shooters. If you need to stay in the Canon ecosystem...I don't think you'll be disappointed by the 6D Mk II for low-light and video features (that you want: "...at least 1080 at 60fps").


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2017)

FramerMCB said:


> The 6D Mk II will do the same. Only this time around, will also include the demographic of current 6D owners.



Certainly they're included, but I'm not convinced that Canon generally views current owners of the immediate predecessor as a _major_ target market for a new dSLR. I suspect xxD owners will be the major target, and also 5DII owners (of which there are still many).


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 14, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, the 5DMk4 can only do 2160p30, which as an industry standard totally sucks, and in four years time, when the camera will likely be replaced, it will be beyond a joke.
> ...


----------



## FramerMCB (Jun 14, 2017)

BillB said:


> leadin2 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious on the price. Canon is still selling (body only) 5D3 ($2300) and 6D ($1300), with the current 5D4 ($3300). 6D2 will probably be $1900 at launch?
> ...



My best guess is that $ at launch will be within $200USD or less of the original 6D, no matter the feature set. Just look at the introductory pricing on all other replacement bodies in Canon's lineup. The 5D IV was either just less or even with what the 5D III was sold for (at least in the US). Similar to the 5DX I & II...

Plus the main targeted marketplace slot for this model suggests the price needs to be very close to the $2000 threshold. Pentax has helped us consumers out here in spades with the introduction/price-point of the K-1. (Not because they are in direct competition with Canon per se, but as more of an, "how much can be offered in a FF model for $$ vs $$$ or even $$$$?)


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 14, 2017)

> My best guess is that $ at launch will be within $200USD or less of the original 6D, no matter the feature set. Just look at the introductory pricing on all other replacement bodies in Canon's lineup. The 5D IV was either just less or even with what the 5D III was sold for (at least in the US). Similar to the 5DX I & II...



Yes but the 5DMk2 launched in the UK at £2000 and the 5DMk3 launched at £3000. Quite a difference.

I want to say the 6DMk2 will be £2000, but I think it will be closer to £2500, dropping to say £2100 in the first 12 months.

I of course hope I am completely wrong and it launches at £1800


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

That feeling you get when you were writing a great (and somewhat long) reply to this thread and accidentally X'd out the tab you were writing on while trying open a new tab to get more information for said post = sadness.

I've saved countless posts-in-progress by hitting 'back' in the browser, but nothing resurrects the killed tab.

RIP my great post
June 14, 2017 - June 14, 2017
_It left us too soon_ :'(

- A


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> That feeling you get when you were writing a great (and somewhat long) reply to this thread and accidentally X'd out the tab you were writing on while trying open a new tab to get more information for said post = sadness.
> 
> I've saved countless posts-in-progress by hitting 'back' in the browser, but nothing resurrects the killed tab.
> 
> ...



does shift ctrl T or shift alt t not re open your tabs? (google open closed tabs)


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > That feeling you get when you were writing a great (and somewhat long) reply to this thread and accidentally X'd out the tab you were writing on while trying open a new tab to get more information for said post = sadness.
> ...



Mind. Blown. Post resurrected. 

I love you, man

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> > My best guess is that $ at launch will be within $200USD or less of the original 6D, no matter the feature set. Just look at the introductory pricing on all other replacement bodies in Canon's lineup. The 5D IV was either just less or even with what the 5D III was sold for (at least in the US). Similar to the 5DX I & II...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The 5DIII was an atypically significant upgrade to most of the features of the 5DII, and the 5DIII launched not long before the 6D (the latter being a more direct replacement of the 5DII from a feature standpoint, and certainly Canon had the 6D features locked down when the 5DIII launched). If the 6DII gets a major performance boost (i.e., if it is similar to the 5DIII but with a new sensor), then expect a launch price much higher than the 6D. But if the 6DII is a 'typical' incremental update to the line, it will launch at or slightly less than the 6D's original price.

BTW, what's the 5DX?  If you meant the 1D X and 1D X II, the latter launched at a price $800 less than the former (a 12% price drop, which applied to the 6D would mean an $1850 launch price for the 6DII).


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



FramerMCB said:


> Buyers in the market for a FF rig are a mix of hobbyists, serious hobbyists, semi-pros, and pros. That said, their needs and desires cover a broad range in what they are looking for/need.
> 
> [truncated]
> 
> The 6D Mk II will do the same. Only this time around, will also include the demographic of current 6D owners.



Appreciate the post. It's interesting to perceive the various buckets of folks who might buy a 6D2, and how it paints a picture of what they need:


*Canon people moving up from crop*: as others have pointed out, moving from crop to FF in general is a very crowded field at present (6D1, 5D3, plus the newer 5D models). A nearly-5D4-good sensor for $2k will be the #1 driver for this camp.


*People moving up from 6D1*: #1 concern is getting a better AF setup, but the tilty-flippy + DPAF aspect is a hallelujah moment for a lot of people there. 


*People in the 5D/5DS camp*: #1 driver will be a cheaper 2nd rig than another 5D rig without the IQ falling off a cliff, but the tilt-screen is bait for a portion of all shooters, it would appear. A number of FF shooters of all levels would love a tilty-flippy.


*People not shooting Canon today*: I don't generally back up K's posts here, but they make a fair point on bang-for-buck _on bodies_ in this product segment. People outside Canon have to reeeeeeeally want Canon color or the EF portfolio to stomach the less feature-per-dollar value proposition of Canon rigs in this market space. Between the hordes of Sony FF options, the D750 and K-1, there are other fish in the sea to consider if you aren't married to EF.

- A


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> FramerMCB said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D Mk II will do the same. Only this time around, will also include the demographic of current 6D owners.
> ...



Your point seems generally true, but there may be a couple of factors that could lead to a higher than usual trade in rate for Canon equipment. The first is the implementation of dual pixel sensor technology with touchscreen focussing. (along with on sensor ADC). The other is the inclusion of the tilty/flippy screen. We'll see.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > You keep on whining repeatedly about 'nerfing'. Have you ever considered it is 'designing to a price'
> ...



Million-dollar (or, I suppose, $1500) question: if the D750 is such an awesome camera, why aren't you buying one of those instead of complaining about Canon's offerings? Serious question.


----------



## NancyP (Jun 14, 2017)

Well, what would spur a move from 6Dclassic to 6D2 would be significant changes in the sensor: increased dynamic range and decreased noise (6Dc is already a pretty good astrophotography sensor). 6 more MP is nice, but not compelling on its own. Tilt screen would be a plus for waist level or ground level shots. But it is true that I am fond of the 6D classic and not in the mind to change just for better AF. I shoot a lot of landscape and macro, and use Live View - manual focus about half of the time.


----------



## Diko (Jun 14, 2017)

AWESOME!


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## privatebydesign (Jun 14, 2017)

Why do we have this penchant for renaming anything that doesn't have a MkI badge as a 'Classic', or 'C'? I thought we broke that habit with the 1DC.

A 6D is a 6D, it isn't a 6Dc, a 5D is a 5D, not a 5D classic.

Maybe I am being a pedant, but I don't think so, a 1DC is a 4K capable 18MP 1 series, it is not a 4.2 MP camera that came out in the early 2000's. Same as rig and body, a camera rig is very different to a camera body. Just ask any shooter the difference between a magazine and a clip, they are two entirely different things that have entirely different meanings.


----------



## Neutron_K (Jun 14, 2017)

Just one thought here about 6d2... 

Canon "estimated" in press release that 5d4 will be costing $3599 USD starting from July as they will pre-install Canon log in new stock bodies (body only option?).

Based on the timeline, I am guessing that they would give whoever on the fence wondering which to buy a strong reason to choose 5d4 over 6d2 then. 

At least a reason price gap should be estimated based on $3599 USD mark.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jun 14, 2017)

Chances 6DII will get a better sensor than the 5DIV just like the 6D over the 5DIII sensor now increased a lot!!!


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 14, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Chances 6DII will get a better sensor than the 5DIV just like the 6D over the 5DIII sensor now increased a lot!!!



I doubt it

if you didn't notice the 77D,etc sensors were not as good as the 80D,etc.

there's no guarantee it "will be better".


----------



## Maiaibing (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> There was a much bigger/clearer feature-set differentiation going on with the 6D vs. 5D3 decision. I feel the 6D2 is shaping up to have a much stronger value proposition vs. the 5D4 than the 6D did vs. the 5D3.
> 
> Hence: tough decision. But that's not necessarily a bad thing for photographers.



6D had better sensor and centre focus point than the 5DIII. Cost was ~1.000 USD for the non-wifi version. Made the choice very easy for me. YMMV.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 14, 2017)

K said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Billybob said:
> ...



you and your cripple stupidity.

UHS-I versus II depends on physical hardware. that MUST exist in DIGIC or it simply won't work.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jun 14, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Chances 6DII will get a better sensor than the 5DIV just like the 6D over the 5DIII sensor now increased a lot!!!
> ...



"Increased" "chances" do not imply a guarantee. 

But a new Canon FF sensor almost always implies a better quality sensor (writing "almost" because I may be overlooking a contradictory example - but I do not recall any such example myself).


----------



## Neutron_K (Jun 14, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> 6D had better sensor and centre focus point than the 5DIII. Cost was ~1.000 USD for the non-wifi version. Made the choice very easy for me. YMMV.



But they are planning to raise the price of 5D IV to $3599 in July in USA. Even now, MSRP is $3499.... I am certainly not sure 6D2 would provide "better value" or another reason to go 5D4.

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/about/newsroom/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/20170420-C-Log/20170420-C-Log


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 14, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



1DX II to 5DIV wasn't any better really - canon was most likely in transition when the 6D originally came out. it's highly unlikely you get anything better, just "different".


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> 6D had better sensor and centre focus point than the 5DIII. Cost was ~1.000 USD for the non-wifi version. Made the choice very easy for me. YMMV.



Maiaibing, sure. The 6D1 had a lovely -3 EV center AF point, Wifi, interchangeable focus screens and a _marginally_ better sensor than the 5D3.

But the 5D3 was simply a cut above the 6D1 just about _everywhere_ else: video, AF system, fps, build quality, 100% VF coverage, max shutter speed, flash sync speed, grip/ergonomics/button layout, AF joystick, etc.

You can argue the 6D1 was a better _value_, certainly, but it's really hard to argue it's a better camera.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2017)

Neutron_K said:


> *But they are planning to raise the price of 5D IV to $3599 in July in USA*. Even now, MSRP is $3499.... I am certainly not sure 6D2 would provide "better value" or another reason to go 5D4.
> 
> https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/about/newsroom/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/20170420-C-Log/20170420-C-Log



No. They are going to offer_ a version of the 5DIV with the C-Log upgrade pre-installed_, and the MSRP for that version will be $100 higher than the price of the standard version. The version without the C-Log upgrade will still be sold at the current price (and certainly at a much higher volume than the C-Log version).


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Chances 6DII will get a better sensor than the 5DIV just like the 6D over the 5DIII sensor now increased a lot!!!



As for the 6D2 getting a better sensor than the 5D4, as others have pointed out, it's not a guarantee. 

I'm not sure they'll put out a better sensor in the 6D2 than in the 5D4 just because a year has passed -- I think the major bump from the on-chip ADC conversion was the big delta and it already happened. So 6D1 --> 6D2 should see a really nice bump in performance, but I fail to see how the 6D2 blows past the 5D4 without a sensor 'first' that this market point probably doesn't warrant. 

Also, to Canon, the 6D2 and 5D4 are 'same cycle' products that will overlap for 3-4 years, and I think there's a ton of (market) wisdom for Canon to see to it that the 5D4 has the slightly better sensor (overall, not just in resolution). 

I could very well be wrong, of course, but I'd be stunned if the 6D2 blew past the 5D4 sensor in ant large/meaningful way.

- A


----------



## bereninga (Jun 14, 2017)

I would expect the images from the 6DII sensor to have only slightly less noise than the 5DIV, just like the 6D to the 5DIII.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 14, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Why do we have this penchant for renaming anything that doesn't have a MkI badge as a 'Classic', or 'C'? I thought we broke that habit with the 1DC.
> 
> A 6D is a 6D, it isn't a 6Dc, a 5D is a 5D, not a 5D classic.
> 
> Maybe I am being a pedant, but I don't think so, a 1DC is a 4K capable 18MP 1 series, it is not a 4.2 MP camera that came out in the early 2000's. Same as rig and body, a camera rig is very different to a camera body. Just ask any shooter the difference between a magazine and a clip, they are two entirely different things that have entirely different meanings.



No, a few people get annoyed by it, but on the whole people understand the point. Because it allows for the much simpler reference to the concept of "the 1D class of cameras" as "1D". Usually it's quite clear from context what people mean, but pedants get annoyed.

I'm usually a pedant, so I don't mean that to be as derogatory as it sounds, but don't fool yourself into thinking most people "broke that habit".


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 14, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Why do we have this penchant for renaming anything that doesn't have a MkI badge as a 'Classic', or 'C'? I thought we broke that habit with the 1DC.
> ...



Hmm, not sure I agree. "I am getting a 1D", "I am getting a 1DX", "I want a 1 series camera which should I get?", no need for a spurious 'C' or 'classic' and the different meanings of the two statements and a question are quite clear.

And why the conflation of 'bodies' and 'rigs'? A camera rig is a distinct thing that has a very different meaning to camera body yet more and more people clearly mean body when they say rig.


----------



## timmy_650 (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Chances 6DII will get a better sensor than the 5DIV just like the 6D over the 5DIII sensor now increased a lot!!!
> ...



My guess is in "sharpness" the 5D will win bc of the 30mp but the 6D at 26mp i think it will have better low light performance. So some people will say the 6D will have better senor and others will say the 5D. I agree where we are at in senor tech it is hard to believe a senor will have any real world differences.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jun 14, 2017)

Neutron_K said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > 6D had better sensor and centre focus point than the 5DIII. Cost was ~1.000 USD for the non-wifi version. Made the choice very easy for me. YMMV.
> ...


Unsure what you are trying to say here? 

People will have different needs and make different choices. To me IQ ranks as the top priority. So I choose a 6D over the 5DIII. YMMV.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 14, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Hmm, not sure I agree. "I am getting a 1D", "I am getting a 1DX", "I want a 1 series camera which should I get?", no need for a spurious 'C' or 'classic' and the different meanings of the two statements and a question are quite clear.
> 
> And why the conflation of 'bodies' and 'rigs'? A camera rig is a distinct thing that has a very different meaning to camera body yet more and more people clearly mean body when they say rig.



You don't have to agree. This isn't a debate. The fact is, clearly, most people prefer to use "1Dc" for "classic", even though it annoys you and a few others. You can be as annoyed by it as you like (I have a mile-long list of grammatical pet peeves, so I feel your pain), but get the notion out of your head that "we broke that habit".


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Why do we have this penchant for renaming anything that doesn't have a MkI badge as a 'Classic', or 'C'? I thought we broke that habit with the 1DC.
> 
> A 6D is a 6D, it isn't a 6Dc, a 5D is a 5D, not a 5D classic.



Agree, "c" for classic should die a fiery death, but I value a shorthand to reinforce which model I am actually talking about. So once I know a "2" version is coming out, I call the original a "1" for clarity.

So I call the (original) 6D a 6D1 in my forward looking conversations about the 6D2. Though it admittedly looks funny to read/write, no one ever gets confused what I am writing about. 8)



LonelyBoy said:


> Because it allows for the much simpler reference to the concept of "the 1D class of cameras" as "1D". Usually it's quite clear from context what people mean, but pedants get annoyed.



Ah, yes, but this is different. Good point. For a general reference to brand-_level_ rather than specific model, I usually say "1-series" or "1DX#" (literally the # symbol to imply the entire family). Same goes for the 5-series, though I am not 100% consistent there -- probably somewhere else on this very thread I have thrown about 5D in a general brand sense when others could have misinterpreted me.

- A


----------



## Andries (Jun 14, 2017)

Well I've been waiting for this for some time now. Ever since I've transitioned to digital photography in 2004, I have been working with APS-C sized sensors (10D, 40D, 60D and now 80D). Last year I was able try out a 6D and I *loved* it. So I've been saving up to get a FF camera. For me, as a hobbyist the 5D4 is irrelevant, as it is simply way above budget. Last year I invested in some glass, selling all EF-S lenses and getting EF lenses instead, preparing for a FF camera.

Current candidates are the Canon 6D2 and the Sony A7II with MC-11 converter.
Although not yet released, the 6D2 does have my preference, as all the gear I own is for Canon EOS cameras.
Now I'm eagerly awaiting full specs of the 6D2 before I make any choice.

- 26Mp is just fine, 24 or more is exactly what I wanted. 
- An AF system similar to the 80D with a extra sensitive center point for low light conditions would be a plus !
- Anything close to 5fps or higher is good enough for me. 
- Hoping for improved Dynamic Range and low light performance over the 6D. 
- The vari-angle display is welcome, but no must as I use the viewfinder over 99% of the time.
- Dual SD slot would also be welcome, but a single SD slot would not be a deal breaker.
- Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and any video functions are absolutely unnecessary for me as I would never use them.
- Price point will be decisive. Over €2,200 for the 6D2 and I'll most likely go with the Sony. Under €2,000 and it's definitely the 6D2. Anything in between ...


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Why do we have this penchant for renaming anything that doesn't have a MkI badge as a 'Classic', or 'C'? I thought we broke that habit with the 1DC.
> 
> A 6D is a 6D, it isn't a 6Dc, a 5D is a 5D, not a 5D classic.
> 
> Maybe I am being a pedant, but I don't think so, a 1DC is a 4K capable 18MP 1 series, it is not a 4.2 MP camera that came out in the early 2000's. Same as rig and body, a camera rig is very different to a camera body. Just ask any shooter the difference between a magazine and a clip, they are two entirely different things that have entirely different meanings.



You may not be able to win on this one. It might make more sense to start calling the 6D a 6D1. Even though it was never officially a 6D1, that's more or less what it became after the 6DII became part of the conversation. While 6D1 may be redundant, it clearly refers to the first 6D model, and removes some potential for confusion.

Use of Classic to denote the initial model may have started with the 5D. At least that's how I first remember seeing it. I don't remember it being used before the 5DIII made an appearance and the orginal 5D was getting scarce.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 14, 2017)

BillB said:


> It might make more sense to start calling the 6D a 6D1. Even though it was never officially a 6D1, that's more or less what it became after the 6DII became part of the conversation. While 6D1 may be redundant, it clearly refers to the first 6D model, and removes some potential for confusion.



^^^ This. This is what I do and why I do it. ^^^

I am not saying this to try to win an argument by any stretch. Call stuff what you want, but that may come at the price of confusing some folks.

- A


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 14, 2017)

For the record, I've seen people (I forget if it was here or POTN) get all offended at that, "because it's not the 6D Mark 1, it's the 6D". Pedants gonna pedant.

Now me I think that's a fine solution too. I can't think of what I do normally; it helps that I'm new enough to all of this that I don't have any Mark1s. Though that'll change when the SL2 appears, come to think of it.


----------



## CanonCrushed (Jun 14, 2017)

As a current 6D owner I must say I am disappointed if it truly is only 26 MP for the 6D Mark 2. I was expecting 28 MP and no 4K. The reason I thought 28 MP was because of the regular 6D and the 5D3 being only about 2 MP difference. Now, that spread is a lot more. 5 years waiting on a mark 2 to come out at only 26 MP is not good at all, considering the technology and options out there. If Canon offered a version of the 5D4 without 4k video for less, I would probably buy that because I don't use a DLSR for video, just stills. I also think the codec they use for the 4k in the 5D4 is a very,very bad move on their part.

I am looking forward to final specs and I am in no way crying foul and jumping ship to sony or nikon, or even pentax, but wanted to get my two cents in since I do enjoy the 6D. I was disapppointed in the 5d4 specs too because I thought Canon would have had at least a 36 MP beast to entice a lot more people. I know there is more than MP to image quality, but come on, Sony really is coming out with amazing products and they don't wait 5 years to upgrade a model. And when they do upgrade, they sure do pack a punch with features and tech.

What realistic specs would make me happy on the new 6D Mark 2? :

28 MP
7 FPS Burst 
Equal or better low light than the 5D4 (as the 6d is to the 5d3 in comparison)
Wifi that is EASY for a 5 year old to operate (6D wifi sucks to figure out)
Blutooth? (I don't want or need)
Single Card slot is fine by me
MSRP that won't break the bank 
Articulating Screen or Touch Screen I don't need either


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Well I work in the broadcast market, and I know what people want to broadcast UHD, and I also know what they only want a single workflow. UHD 30fps fits neither.
> 
> It's a case of expectations, I was expecting the UHD support to be broadcast industry standard, especially as this camera was aimed at both cinematographers (pre C series) and news gathering.



You have just proved my point. I bet Canon's target market for the 6D2 is *not* the people wanting to broadcast UHD. 
Who said that this camera is aimed at cinematographers? That is pure supposition of people who want broadcast UHD video quality in a consumer level FF DSLR.
I recall on another thread about the 6D2 one contributor saying they work in the broadcast industry and nearly everyone uses 1080, with only a small group wanting UHD. nf act, finding UHD 4k broadcast stuff to play on my 4k TV is nigh on fruitless. Yet you claim it is an imperative.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 14, 2017)

CanonCrushed said:


> As a current 6D owner I must say I am disappointed if it truly is only 26 MP for the 6D Mark 2. I was expecting 28 MP and no 4K. The reason I thought 28 MP was because of the regular 6D and the 5D3 being only about 2 MP difference. Now, that spread is a lot more. 5 years waiting on a mark 2 to come out at only 26 MP is not good at all, considering the technology and options out there. If Canon offered a version of the 5D4 without 4k video for less, I would probably buy that because I don't use a DLSR for video, just stills. I also think the codec they use for the 4k in the 5D4 is a very,very bad move on their part.
> 
> I am looking forward to final specs and I am in no way crying foul and jumping ship to sony or nikon, or even pentax, but wanted to get my two cents in since I do enjoy the 6D. I was disapppointed in the 5d4 specs too because I thought Canon would have had at least a 36 MP beast to entice a lot more people. I know there is more than MP to image quality, but come on, Sony really is coming out with amazing products and they don't wait 5 years to upgrade a model. And when they do upgrade, they sure do pack a punch with features and tech.
> 
> ...



Why is 28MP so much better than 26MP??


----------



## timmy_650 (Jun 14, 2017)

That is wishful thinking 28 mp and 7 fps. That is way to close to the 5D4 for them to put that camera out.


----------



## BillB (Jun 14, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> For the record, I've seen people (I forget if it was here or POTN) get all offended at that, "because it's not the 6D Mark 1, it's the 6D". Pedants gonna pedant.
> 
> Now me I think that's a fine solution too. I can't think of what I do normally; it helps that I'm new enough to all of this that I don't have any Mark1s. Though that'll change when the SL2 appears, come to think of it.



Actually it won't change. The SL1 is already the SL1 and it will stay that way


----------



## CanonCrushed (Jun 14, 2017)

It's about progress in 5 years and having an adequate number for consumers to remain competitive. No need for several question marks. I understood perfectly with the first one 

Let's say they announced that it was 24 MP, and I would have said 26 Mp. Would you still have asked me the same question? Canon will be introducing rebels and cropped bodies all over the place that will meet or exceed 26 MP in a year or two. They have way too many models as it is. 

To be more specific, every MP counts when you count on crop factor. 2 MP isn't much, but after 5 years and only a small increase of 6 MP, well, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand they are not serious in being taken seriously. I simply stated my opinion and what I would have LIKED to see. I could have said 30 MP, but was being realistic.

I hope that answers your ???????. Cheers!


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 14, 2017)

BillB said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > For the record, I've seen people (I forget if it was here or POTN) get all offended at that, "because it's not the 6D Mark 1, it's the 6D". Pedants gonna pedant.
> ...



HA! Best name ever, apparently. I don't know why they don't do that for the others.

And I wasn't even drinking...


----------



## Bernard (Jun 14, 2017)

BillB said:


> It might make more sense to start calling the 6D a 6D1. Even though it was never officially a 6D1, that's more or less what it became after the 6DII became part of the conversation. While 6D1 may be redundant, it clearly refers to the first 6D model, and removes some potential for confusion.



That is the funniest thing I've read in a while!

Let's come up with an abbreviation that's longer than the original name, and that will confuses everyone (except for a couple of geeks).

Here's an idea, why not call it what it is actually called? Is it so hard to call the 6D a "6D"? When the 6D2 comes out, we can refer to it as the 6D2. Nobody will be confused, no matter how much you think that "others" may possibly be, in a parallel universe no doubt.

I totally understand the desire to have a shorthand name, or an "insider" name to establish street cred, but it becomes absolutely ridiculous when the made-up name is longer than the real name that everybody already knows and understands.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jun 14, 2017)

CanonCrushed said:


> after 5 years and only a small increase of 6 MP, well, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand they are not serious in being taken seriously.



I really don't know if you're being serious..


----------



## ken (Jun 14, 2017)

Stuart said:


> I loved my 6D for the low light performance, but missed more & better/faster focus points. Would be very keen to upgrade if its better in these areas once the initial price peak drops.



Same here! Better focus and I'll upgrade. I originally shot mostly landscapes so the 6D was perfect for me. But as I've branched out, I want faster focus.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 14, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Call stuff what you want, but that may come at the price of confusing some folks.
> 
> - A



Like writing rig when you mean body?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 14, 2017)

Bernard said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > It might make more sense to start calling the 6D a 6D1. Even though it was never officially a 6D1, that's more or less what it became after the 6DII became part of the conversation. While 6D1 may be redundant, it clearly refers to the first 6D model, and removes some potential for confusion.
> ...



So yes, literally anything you call it will annoy someone.


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 14, 2017)

I know for me personally it will be a toss up between one of the Sony models and the 6DII. I've been patiently saving and buying lenses for the past several years for my move to FF. I shot with the 6DI a number of times as a rental and moved it for landscapes, but wasn't a fan for wildlife. The focusing system was just too dumbed down. More recently I shot with the 80D and almost ended up buying that as it was a treat to shoot with that camera, however I still wanted to move to FF. 

If the 6DII upgrades the AF system to something like the 80D I will probably get that. If Canon sticks with a nerfed version of the AF like the 6DI then I will probably move to sony with canon glass or move over to Nikon with their D750.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 15, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> I know for me personally it will be a toss up between one of the Sony models and the 6DII. I've been patiently saving and buying lenses for the past several years for my move to FF. I shot with the 6DI a number of times as a rental and moved it for landscapes, but wasn't a fan for wildlife. The focusing system was just too dumbed down. More recently I shot with the 80D and almost ended up buying that as it was a treat to shoot with that camera, however I still wanted to move to FF.
> 
> If the 6DII upgrades the AF system to something like the 80D I will probably get that. If Canon sticks with a nerfed version of the AF like the 6DI then I will probably move to sony with canon glass or move over to Nikon with their D750.



The 6D MK II is almost certainly going to be a FF version of the 80D as far as features go. There may be a few improvements, but nothing major. It will reuse the Wi-Fi module, same as the 5D MK IV did, and the same for GPD / bluetooth. Obviously, a new sensor is required, hopefully, it will be a little better.

I'd really like to see a joystick, but its not going to happen. Tough to focus and fast live autofocus so it can be used for some moving subjects would be nice. Canon continues to make improvements to DPAF, so I hope for a tweak.

I have a 5D MK III but do not take advantage of 90% of the AF features, autoexposure is less than stellar most of the time, I need to adjust exposure in post processing. I doubt that there will be a improvement in the autoexposure, some day, we will see a major change, but in the 1 series first.


----------



## ahsanford (Jun 15, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Call stuff what you want, but that may come at the price of confusing some folks.
> ...



I totally deserve that, but I'm quirky like that and I think you're down with that fact.

- A


----------



## RandomRazr (Jun 15, 2017)

Dvash7 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 26 MP
> ...



how come u wont get the 5d iv?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 15, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



Yeah, because it's not the 6D2, it's the 6DII.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 15, 2017)

actualy...speaking of metering system.

Canon 80D is equipped with "A new 7560-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor measures both visible light and invisible infra-red light for more accurate exposures". So does 5D Mark IV, so does 1DX, 1DX II, 7D Mark II.

I guess, no point for me to explain benefits of RGB metering system over the old one. I have very high hope for the new RGB mettering chip in 6D II.. 



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I have a 5D MK III but do not take advantage of 90% of the AF features, autoexposure is less than stellar most of the time, I need to adjust exposure in post processing. I doubt that there will be a improvement in the autoexposure, some day, we will see a major change, but in the 1 series first.


----------



## Neutron_K (Jun 15, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Neutron_K said:
> 
> 
> > *But they are planning to raise the price of 5D IV to $3599 in July in USA*. Even now, MSRP is $3499.... I am certainly not sure 6D2 would provide "better value" or another reason to go 5D4.
> ...



That's sort of a good news. I went through internal battle and pull the trigger on 5d4... with broken teeth.


----------



## RandomRazr (Jun 15, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> At 26mp I'm in. I think its a given that the current 11 point AF will be bettered but its wishful thinking to assume it will have the same flash sync and highest shutter speed of the 5D MKIV. It will retain GPS and Wi-Fi and maybe also get NFC and with a flippy screen which will almost certainly be touch screen its a great second camera proposition to the 5D MIV or in my case the 5DS I already have.
> I don't really care about video never used it and don't intend using it on either the 5DS or a 6D MKII Ive dedicated video cameras for that which do a better job.
> 
> If it stays relatively true to the original 6D then I don't think it will damage 5D MKIV sales the layout will almost certainly follow the basic principles of the current camera / 80D and the 5D MIV will retain a higher frame rate, weather sealing, metering system, AF point separation.
> ...



how com e u went for 5ds over 5d IV?


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## RandomRazr (Jun 15, 2017)

Billybob said:


> Dvash7 said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



so u dont want the 5d IV because of price? im jumping from 70D to fullframe and cant decide whether 5d IV or 6d II


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## Luds34 (Jun 15, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> actualy...speaking of metering system.
> 
> Canon 80D is equipped with "A new 7560-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor measures both visible light and invisible infra-red light for more accurate exposures". So does 5D Mark IV, so does 1DX, 1DX II, 7D Mark II.
> 
> ...



Ahh yes, the metering and auto WB does struggle in the 6D from time to time, especially under artificial lighting. I look forward to those improvements.


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## Mikehit (Jun 15, 2017)

CanonCrushed said:


> It's about progress in 5 years and having an adequate number for consumers to remain competitive. No need for several question marks. I understood perfectly with the first one
> 
> Let's say they announced that it was 24 MP, and I would have said 26 Mp. Would you still have asked me the same question? Canon will be introducing rebels and cropped bodies all over the place that will meet or exceed 26 MP in a year or two. They have way too many models as it is.
> 
> ...



Ah, so you are one of those impressed by the spec sheet irrespective of how it actually performs. Perhaps we should tell Canon that they made a real pigs ear of the 1Dx2 because it is only 20MP, and tell all those sports and wildlife photographers they are using sub-par equipment.


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## Don Haines (Jun 15, 2017)

CanonCrushed said:


> It's about progress in 5 years and having an adequate number for consumers to remain competitive. No need for several question marks. I understood perfectly with the first one.



Interesting..... So I am just imagining how much better my current camera is than its predecessor.... I hate to think that I wasted the money to upgrade.... oh well, at least I got a spare battery out of it.....


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## Takingshots (Jun 15, 2017)

Can someone tell me if it has an optical low-pass filter or a self-cancelling filter?


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## K (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*





ahsanford said:


> [*]*People not shooting Canon today*: I don't generally back up K's posts here, but they make a fair point on bang-for-buck _on bodies_ in this product segment. People outside Canon have to reeeeeeeally want Canon color or the EF portfolio to stomach the less feature-per-dollar value proposition of Canon rigs in this market space. Between the hordes of Sony FF options, the D750 and K-1, there are other fish in the sea to consider if you aren't married to EF.






ahsanford said:


> - A




This is exactly what I'm saying. New users who aren't going to buy flagship level bodies but want some pro glass and a FF body would be insane to go Canon. While EF lineup and Canon's color is very attractive, it isn't that much better.

Canon fanatics need to rent some Nikon gear to compare and wake up. Nikon is not trash. They might be the rival and the other team, but they are not bad. Besides, color is overrated. Nikon is very good on color and quite close. Close enough that anyone that serious about color perfection is shooting raw anyway and it matters not. JPG shooters, ok they got a point.

I take it a step further, to suggest Canon system users should mind too. Just because they are committed to a system and the manufacturer knows it, doesn't mean they should get shit on with a lower feature set...especially at the price point. It's not like they're saving anything. Canon is charging $2,000 for this thing.

But the entire spectrum of excuses and apologies comes out. All the camera industry economists come to lecture me. Here's some economics for them - Canon is the biggest. Builds the most cameras, sells the most. They have the advantage of *economy-of-scale *to offer up better specs at lower prices than Nikon.

Chew on that apologists and pseudo-economist excuse makers. (not you ahsanford).


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



K said:


> But the entire spectrum of excuses and apologies comes out. All the camera industry economists come to lecture me. Here's some economics for them - Canon is the biggest. Builds the most cameras, sells the most. They have the advantage of *economy-of-scale *to offer up better specs at lower prices than Nikon.
> 
> Chew on that apologists and pseudo-economist excuse makers. (not you ahsanford).



Yet despite the 'lectures', you still fail to understand. Sad.


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## CanonCrushed (Jun 15, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> CanonCrushed said:
> 
> 
> > It's about progress in 5 years and having an adequate number for consumers to remain competitive. No need for several question marks. I understood perfectly with the first one.
> ...



No need for a sarcastic comment, I only offered my opinion and somewhat disappointment. It's a nice improvement, I am not arguing. I'm not the only smart consumer out there who feels similar I'm sure. Many 5d3 users were on the fence about the new 5d4 and upset about the upgrades etc. Many felt they weren't convinced it was enough to warrant an upgrade from the 5d3. It's OK to expect more and better from a manufacturer. 

Enjoy your upgrade and be happy about it. If you can elaborate and add something substantial to the discussion and the limited rumors about these 6D upgrades please do. Otherwise troll someplace else.


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## K (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > But the entire spectrum of excuses and apologies comes out. All the camera industry economists come to lecture me. Here's some economics for them - Canon is the biggest. Builds the most cameras, sells the most. They have the advantage of *economy-of-scale *to offer up better specs at lower prices than Nikon.
> ...




Incorrect. I understand perfectly, I simply do not accept BS excuses. 

Nice post btw, fails to address the fact that Canon can leverage economy of scale and is in a better position to offer more than Nikon. The pseudo-economist Canon apologists are going to have to go back to the drawing board to figure out a response to that.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



K said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



Lol. Sure, you understand perfectly. Perhaps you can use your 'perfect understanding' to explain _why_ Canon, from their perspective, should do as you suggest. 

Dazzle us all by showing how much more you know than Canon about selling cameras.


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## CanonCrushed (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



Mikehit said:


> CanonCrushed said:
> 
> 
> > It's about progress in 5 years and having an adequate number for consumers to remain competitive. No need for several question marks. I understood perfectly with the first one
> ...



Uhhhh, is that not what this forum is for? We are all here because we want to find out and discuss this camera's specs? I never said the 1dx is sub par. By your rationale I should be blowing my load over this new upgraded 6D and I should not question it or present any personal thoughts or disagreement with Canon. Sorry, but I don't drink Kool-Aid. I like Canon, but as a consumer I will speak up.


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## Mikehit (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Lol. Sure, you understand perfectly. Perhaps you can use your 'perfect understanding' to explain _why_ Canon, from their perspective, should do as you suggest.
> 
> Dazzle us all by showing how much more you know than Canon about selling cameras.



You mean apart from 'they have enough profit margin to add it without increasing the cost of the camera. So I think they should cut profits to keep me happy'.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



CanonCrushed said:


> ...as a consumer I will speak up.



Which is exactly what you should do. But you should also recognize that, as an individual consumer, your voice is but one tiny, insignificant contribution to the market.


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## bholliman (Jun 15, 2017)

CanonCrushed said:


> I must say I am disappointed if it truly is only 26 MP for the 6D Mark 2. I was expecting 28 MP and no 4K. The reason I thought 28 MP was because of the regular 6D and the 5D3 being only about 2 MP difference. Now, that spread is a lot more. 5 years waiting on a mark 2 to come out at only 26 MP is not good at all, considering the technology and options out there.



Disappointed with "only" 26MP vs. your expectation of 28MP. You are kidding, right?


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## Luds34 (Jun 15, 2017)

bholliman said:


> CanonCrushed said:
> 
> 
> > I must say I am disappointed if it truly is only 26 MP for the 6D Mark 2. I was expecting 28 MP and no 4K. The reason I thought 28 MP was because of the regular 6D and the 5D3 being only about 2 MP difference. Now, that spread is a lot more. 5 years waiting on a mark 2 to come out at only 26 MP is not good at all, considering the technology and options out there.
> ...



Stop feeding... stop feeding!


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



K said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



So why are you not switched yet? With your beloved D750 as cheap as it is you should be able to come out ahead, but instead you'd rather bellyache about Canon. I keep asking and you keep not answering. Maybe the grass on the other side isn't as green as you're saying?


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## rrcphoto (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



K said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



probably not much more in the full frame market, unless you have statistics to show the full frame marketshare percentages, and if so, i"d love to see them.

economies of scale exist, yes, but exist in the lower end of the camera market - far more than up here.


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## Don Haines (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



K said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



Nikon has better specs, yet is in financial trouble....
Canon has better sales and is profitable.......

As far as economies of scale goes, Canon and Nikon sales are not far enough apart to make any real difference... Canon would need to be outselling Nikon by 5 to 1 to start seeing a measureable difference, and that just is not going to happen...

How do we explain the discontinuity between making (at least what you perceive as) better cameras, against lower sales and profits?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> How do we explain the discontinuity between making (at least what you perceive as) better cameras, against lower sales and profits?



Consumers are stupid, gullible sheep who have been duped by Canon's genius marketeers into buying overpriced, sub-par cameras.

Wait, I said I'd stop channeling 'K'. Sorry.


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## Don Haines (Jun 15, 2017)

CanonCrushed said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > CanonCrushed said:
> ...


Sorry, I should have added a preface or worded my comment a bit more clearly....

I agree with your comment..... Having 2 crop bodies that are separated by 5 years, the difference is truly striking. I can shoot three stops of ISO higher and get similar quality... AF at f8 instead of F5.6... anti-flicker (a HUGE advancement for where I shoot), from only the centre AF point being useful to 65 points, and lots more little things....

That said, when I upgrade anything, I tend to skip models as personally, I don't find there to be enough of a difference to jump every time. For example, she still uses the 5D2..... Great camera, and as nice as the 5D3 is, for us, its not worth the upgrade...... but as to the 5D4, right now we are thinking real hard on that one.....

Got a 6D at work..... will NOT get a 6D2 for work no matter what the specs are.... same logic..... yet at home, the 6D2 looks like it will become my FF camera for canoe trips....

and BTW, one of the things that Canon has gotten right is batteries..... no new battery for every model! Kudos!


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 15, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > How do we explain the discontinuity between making (at least what you perceive as) better cameras, against lower sales and profits?
> ...



Can you please channel him a little more and explain why he doesn't just buy the D750 and be done with it? For being such an awesome product it seems he'd rather talk about it than actually buy it. Which doesn't make sense, unless he's being disingenuous and doesn't think it's as good as he claims it is.


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## The Flasher (Jun 17, 2017)

AA filter or no? The 6d and no AA was a pleasant surprise.


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## AdamBotond (Jun 17, 2017)

As a former 6D user, I am really looking forward to see how the new sensor in the successor is going to perform. I was really happy with 6D high iso capabilities back then and I must admit I still favour the colors and DR of the 6D over my current 1D X.


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## LonelyBoy (Jun 17, 2017)

The Flasher said:


> AA filter or no? The 6d and no AA was a pleasant surprise.



I just started my coffee so maybe I'll regret this, but doesn't the 6D have an AA filter?


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## BillB (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



Don Haines said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Development and capital costs are a piece of the puzzle too. Even a doubling of production is going to have a big impact on per camera development and capital costs, even if decreases in per camera production costs are small. My guess is that recovery of development and capital costs has been a big part of Nikon's woes because of its lower production levels. A nasty cycle can kick in when you have to cut costs to generate income to recover front end and other overhead costs.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 17, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> I just started my coffee so maybe I'll regret this, but doesn't the 6D have an AA filter?



Pretty sure it does.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 17, 2017)

*Re: Canon Ehttp://www.canonrumors.com/OS 6D Mark II to Get New 26mp Sensor [CR3]*



K said:


> Incorrect. I understand perfectly



Still waiting for evidence to support this claim. 

You continue to ignore the question: If Canon is failing so completely in making cameras that _many_ people want and are happy to buy and use, how are they still the top-performing camera company in the world?



> I simply do not accept BS excuses.



"BS excuses" that you can't actually provide an answer or cogent counter-argument to, I notice...


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 17, 2017)

CanonCrushed said:


> Many 5d3 users were on the fence about the new 5d4 and upset about the upgrades etc. Many felt they weren't convinced it was enough to warrant an upgrade from the 5d3.



"Many"? 

Care to cite some evidence?


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## IglooEater (Jun 17, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> CanonCrushed said:
> 
> 
> > Many 5d3 users were on the fence about the new 5d4 and upset about the upgrades etc. Many felt they weren't convinced it was enough to warrant an upgrade from the 5d3.
> ...



Hey, I read it in the internet. It must be true.

In all seriousness. I don't understand the thinking that Canon expects users to upgrade at every iteration. It would seem more natural (to me) to compare the 5D IV with the II, and the Mark III with the Mark I. At which point the upgrade appears much more compelling. I expect current III users will find the Mark V equally compelling.


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## Mikehit (Jun 17, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> In all seriousness. I don't understand the thinking that Canon expects users to upgrade at every iteration.



Who said they did?



IglooEater said:


> It would seem more natural (to me) to compare the 5D IV with the II, and the Mark III with the Mark I. At which point the upgrade appears much more compelling. I expect current III users will find the Mark V equally compelling.


Spec-wise I agree. But Canon have an unnerving habit of not only upgrading the specs but also tweaking the ergonomics which may be unimpressive on the spec sheet but make the whole experience much better. And for a pro that can be as important as improved technology.


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## sanj (Jun 17, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> CanonCrushed said:
> 
> 
> > It's about progress in 5 years and having an adequate number for consumers to remain competitive. No need for several question marks. I understood perfectly with the first one.
> ...



;D ;D


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## IglooEater (Jun 17, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > In all seriousness. I don't understand the thinking that Canon expects users to upgrade at every iteration.
> ...


No one. But a lot of people complain that subsequent models aren't worthy upgrades. I'm just suggesting that they aren't meant to be.



Mikehit said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > It would seem more natural (to me) to compare the 5D IV with the II, and the Mark III with the Mark I. At which point the upgrade appears much more compelling. I expect current III users will find the Mark V equally compelling.
> ...


+1 good point


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 18, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Who said they did?



The (very pertinent) point IglooEater is making is that the whiners on here _are reacting_ as if they're being forced to upgrade, whether they like it or not.


----------

