# Flash for M5



## troy19 (Nov 13, 2016)

Hi,

I ordered an M5 and need a small and lightweight speedlite. Owning a 600rt I guess this como would be way missbalanced. So my idea was to use the 600 off shoe, pointing to the wall or ceiling and to trigger it with a small on shoe flash like 270exii but that has no master function and no radio connection, right? 

So the only option is 430ex iii rt ? 

The data:
270ex ii is 155g + 2 batteries
430ex iii rt is 295g + 4 batteries

Another possibility is to get a Speedlite Transmitter ST–E3–RT, but that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits.

Any other options? Or wait for Canon to make a 270ex iii rt ?


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## mb66energy (Nov 13, 2016)

The 90EX has an integrated master function too which works with more or less modern cameras (40D works, 600D works, 5D classic does not) because the menu for the master functions is integrated into the camera operating system.

If this functionality isn't omitted for M5 (via a flash menu in the camera) you can use it for the purpose you intended.

By the way: this is the only reason I kept the 90EX speedlite (I bought in a bundle with EOS M) which is really tiny:
ca. 44,2 x 52 x 65 mm & ca. 50 g (w/o battery which is 2 x AAA)

Best - Michael

EDIT: Read your post again: If you rely on radio connection: 90EX isn't the right solution, it has only optical communication


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 13, 2016)

Canon makes the 90 EX for the M series cameras, you can pick one up for a low price. I bought one to use on my Canon G1X.

One interesting thing is that it will act as a Master to control other Canon flashes by optical pre-flashes. I've used it to control my 580 EX II just to verify that it will trigger it. A white box is $64 right now on Amazon, I think I paid $45 two years ago. It definitely has some limitations, so read reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Canon-Speedlite-90EX-Flash-Camera/dp/B00GFWBOFC/ref=sr_1_3?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1479026529&sr=1-3&keywords=canon+flash+90ex


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## troy19 (Nov 13, 2016)

Thanks mb66energy and Mt Spokane Photography for pointing me to the 90ex. Have to look closer into that option ...

Had a quick look into 90ex manual: optical communication is possible in +/- 40° horizontal and +/- 30° vertical. My setting for shooting events include one or more 600RT fixed in the room while I am shooting here and there, so the 600RT's could be everywhere, in front, behind, above. I have no experience, but I guess optical communication would fail under these conditions. So radio communications would be the way to go ?

Another question: why not use the internal flash to trigger the external flash(es). I guess internal flashes can communicate in optical way only? Or do you know of an EOS whose internal flash is able to send radio signals to e.g. 600exRT's ?


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## mb66energy (Nov 13, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Thanks mb66energy and Mt Spokane Photography for pointing me to the 90ex. Have to look closer into that option ...
> 
> Had a quick look into 90ex manual: optical communication is possible in +/- 40° horizontal and +/- 30° vertical. My setting for shooting events include one or more 600RT fixed in the room while I am shooting here and there, so the 600RT's could be everywhere, in front, behind, above. I have no experience, but I guess optical communication would fail under these conditions. So radio communications would be the way to go ?
> 
> Another question: why not use the internal flash to trigger the external flash(es). I guess internal flashes can communicate in optical way only? Or do you know of an EOS whose internal flash is able to send radio signals to e.g. 600exRT's ?



RED:
radio triggering is much more reliable because you do not need a direct line of sight (hopefully this is the right term). Reflected light may also work but you are in the need of reflective surfaces (white walls). Maybe a diffusor on the flash might help to increase the spatial angle but reduce the range to transmit the signals.

BLUE:
Just checked my 600D (most up to date DSLR I have):
Camera menu 1 -> Flash Control -> Built-In flash func setting -> Built-In Flash -> EaszWireless or CustWireless
then you get the freedom to set flash groups etc.
I am shure your 70D has at least the same capability and hope for the M5 that it has it too - I am very interested to use that camera!


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## troy19 (Nov 13, 2016)

mb66energy said:


> I am shure your 70D has at least the same capability and hope for the M5 that it has it too - I am very interested to use that camera!



Checked the manual of the 70d: the internal flash has optical communication only.

In the manual of the M5 I couldn't find any mention of radio communication, so I guess the flash function are about the same as 70d.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2016)

No Canon camera body can directly trigger flashes by radio. Based on your usage, radio triggering is best. Seems like the 430EX III-RT would be your best bet.


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## bholliman (Nov 13, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Seems like the 430EX III-RT would be your best bet.



+1 I use a 430EXIII-RT as a radio master for one or more off camera 600EX-RT's and the set up works great, on my DSLR's or my M1, I expect to will b ed fine on my preordered M5.


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## bholliman (Nov 13, 2016)

bholliman said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like the 430EX III-RT would be your best bet.
> ...


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## troy19 (Nov 14, 2016)

bholliman said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like the 430EX III-RT would be your best bet.
> ...



Thanks. One more question: How about handling when 430ex iii RT attached to the EOS M1. Is that combo balanced? If you are ok with it, the M5 handling should be better because of the better ergonomics ...


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## Alex_M (Nov 14, 2016)

Troy,
May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you? the following photo was taken with 600RT off camera slave controlled by an on camera wireless radio transmitter, AV priority and ETTL in a hurry...




troy19 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I ordered an M5 and need a small and lightweight speedlite. Owning a 600rt I guess this como would be way missbalanced. So my idea was to use the 600 off shoe, pointing to the wall or ceiling and to trigger it with a small on shoe flash like 270exii but that has no master function and no radio connection, right?
> 
> ...


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## troy19 (Nov 14, 2016)

Alex_M said:


> Troy,
> May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you?



Your example photo may be taken under controlled conditions in a studio or at home where lights can be positioned where they have to be. Thinking of a location, event, wedding, and so on, I have one or more flashes to light up the room itself and want one little portrait flash to carry with me where ever I go. I hope having explained right, otherwise sorry as english is not my native language


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Alex_M said:
> 
> 
> > Troy,
> ...



Makes perfect sense. I sometimes use a 600EX on-camera as a master, instead of the ST-E3, for that reason. Of course, balance isn't an issue on my 1D X. For me, the 270EX II or ST-E3 (same size) is the largest I'd want on my M2, if using native M lenses.


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## troy19 (Nov 14, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > Alex_M said:
> ...



Weight is a very welcome side effect for me downsizing from 70d to M5. 70d + battery grip + 600ex is ok for a short time, but not for hours and hours. 

So you're right, I don't want to put an 600ex on top of the M5. 

Idea: ST-E3 on-camera and an 270ex ii Velcro-taped to the ST-E3. Function: ST-E3 triggers the room-600ex's by radio and the 600ex's trigger the 270ex ii. Mad, but possible? At first I wanted to use an 90ex instaed of the 270ex ii, but the 90ex doesn't have a slave function.

Wait, can optical and radio communications been mixed? No idea.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Weight is a very welcome side effect for me downsizing from 70d to M5. 70d + battery grip + 600ex is ok for a short time, but not for hours and hours.



I find the 1D X + heavy lens (or lighter lens and flash) ok to hold for a few hours, but that's mostly because using the E1 hand strap takes most of the weight off my fingers. Actually, my hand would probably hurt more after the same amount of time holding my M2, which is not nearly as ergonomic, IMO. 




troy19 said:


> Idea: ST-E3 on-camera and an 270ex ii Velcro-taped to the ST-E3. Function: ST-E3 triggers the room-600ex's by radio and the 600ex's trigger the 270ex ii. Mad, but possible? At first I wanted to use an 90ex instaed of the 270ex ii, but the 90ex doesn't have a slave function.
> 
> Wait, can optical and radio communications been mixed? No idea.



No, a master with both capabilities can be set to radio control or optical control, but not both at once. You can incorporate a non-RT flash into a Canon RT system with the Yongnuo YN-E3RX receiver, if you're willing to accept the risk of Yongnuo.

If you wanted a 270EX on-camera (that's what I use on my M2 when I need a flash, I passed on the 90EX because it can't be pointed up for bounce), rather than taping it on, your best bet would be a 3rd party radio trigger system (e.g. Phottix) that has pass-through E-TTL, you'd mount the transmitter to the camera, the 270 on top of the transmitter, and receivers under each slave flash (which is what lots of us did before Canon's RT system made life easier). Alternatively, put the Yongnuo YN-E3RX under it and attach it to the left side of the M5 with a Custom Brackets CB-Mini.

But honestly, those options are probably not worth the hassle – I think the 430EX III-RT is the way to go.


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## troy19 (Nov 15, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> No, a master with both capabilities can be set to radio control or optical control, but not both at once. You can incorporate a non-RT flash into a Canon RT system with the Yongnuo YN-E3RX receiver, if you're willing to accept the risk of Yongnuo.
> 
> If you wanted a 270EX on-camera (that's what I use on my M2 when I need a flash, I passed on the 90EX because it can't be pointed up for bounce), rather than taping it on, your best bet would be a 3rd party radio trigger system (e.g. Phottix) that has pass-through E-TTL, you'd mount the transmitter to the camera, the 270 on top of the transmitter, and receivers under each slave flash (which is what lots of us did before Canon's RT system made life easier). Alternatively, put the Yongnuo YN-E3RX under it and attach it to the left side of the M5 with a Custom Brackets CB-Mini.
> 
> But honestly, those options are probably not worth the hassle – I think the 430EX III-RT is the way to go.



Thanks neuro, your help is very much appreciated. Your detailed knowledge combined with personal experience about photographic equipment is simply great. 

And yes, I too don't want to hassle with equipment, I prefer the simple solution. So maybe I get the 430 RT and see how it pairs with the M5. It's some time left, my dealer says Canon says delivery is end of November here in Germany, but we all know the worth of promises sometimes


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## Alex_M (Nov 15, 2016)

troy,

Just to clarify: the photo was taken in run and gun manner at an event.. as I said: AV mode, ETTL. split second for me to point and shot. bare 600 RT flash slave approximately 10" above the camera on Promediagear Boomerang flash bracket in portrait orientation. flash controlled by wireless RT transmitter on camera. distance to subject - 4-5' approx.
On camera flash produce way to harsh light for my taste and unpleasing shadows. But that's just me. 




troy19 said:


> Alex_M said:
> 
> 
> > Troy,
> ...


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## Valvebounce (Nov 15, 2016)

Hi Alex. 
The first time reading this through I thought wow a flash mounted on a bracket 10 feet long, then I checked and realised it was 10" not 10' d'oh. 
Surprising how that 10" separation improves the shot even with a bare flash. 

Cheers, Graham. 



Alex_M said:


> troy,
> 
> Just to clarify: the photo was taken in run and gun manner at an event.. as I said: AV mode, ETTL. split second for me to point and shot. bare 600 RT flash slave approximately 10" above the camera on Promediagear Boomerang flash bracket in portrait orientation. flash controlled by wireless RT transmitter on camera. distance to subject - 4-5' approx.
> On camera flash produce way to harsh light for my taste and unpleasing shadows. But that's just me.
> ...


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## Alex_M (Nov 15, 2016)

*Graham*,

Thank you, Sir! Yes, big difference. Here is link to the product photo in case you wanted to take a look at what it is. 
I am very happy with it's performance so far.

http://www.promediagear.com/assets/images/flashbrackets/bbgv2/bbgv2-qr-pbx3-boomerang-flash-bracket-with-grip-promediagear(10).jpg


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## eosuser1234 (Nov 15, 2016)

I would suggest Pocket Wizards TT-1 and TT-5 setup using any Canon Flash. 
Good product and the stuff just works as it should. 
With the AC-3 you can have off camera wireless control of flash power of your Canon Speedlites. Very handy.


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## Valvebounce (Nov 16, 2016)

Hi Alex. 
I looked at these before, beautifully engineered and constructed, but reflected in the price. I'm sure if you are making money from it or you can't manage without it for your intended subjects it is easy to justify, for me, not so much! 

Cheers, Graham. 



Alex_M said:


> *Graham*,
> 
> Thank you, Sir! Yes, big difference. Here is link to the product photo in case you wanted to take a look at what it is.
> I am very happy with it's performance so far.
> ...


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## mazza1967 (Dec 2, 2016)

I got my M5 today so been playing to see what works and doesn't , My Nissan and yongnuo flash work fine camera mounted ( but there a bit big !) My Godox x1c TTL are not found by the camera , I have loaded the latest firm updated V18 but not found ( works on my 6d no issue ) so hope there will be a Godox firm update soon , I use godox as my main lighting platform , That said the M5 is mainly my back up camera and I'll most likely use the 6d in all situation where I'm lugging all my lights around.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 2, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I ordered an M5 and need a small and lightweight speedlite. Owning a 600rt I guess this como would be way missbalanced. So my idea was to use the 600 off shoe, pointing to the wall or ceiling and to trigger it with a small on shoe flash like 270exii but that has no master function and no radio connection, right?
> 
> ...



Hello troy19,

I just tested my set of Yongnuo YN-622C ETTL Transceivers together witm my M5 and my Speedlite 580EXII.
This combination works pretty fine (ETTL, M, 2nd curtain, HSS). Even the additional 90EX ontop of the Transceiver on the camera contributes to the flash exposure.
This is what the combination M5 with Transceiver and 90EX looks like:






I do not find this combination too unbalanced, but it is maybe too much of a hassle for you to buy further triggers. Don't even know if the 600EX-RT is compatible with the YN622C and if it works the RT functionality of the 600EX-RT is wasted somehow.

regards
Frank


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## mazza1967 (Dec 8, 2016)

Just tested my M5 with my Youngnuo 622 triggers and all speed lights works fine , All Groups and power settings in the canon camera menu can be accessed to control all the functions as usual , My Godox xc1 do not work at all so I guess I will have to wait for a firm wear ( current V18 ) update for them to catch up which I hope they will do fairly soon , I will prob use the M5 for quick portable shoots with my speed lights and use my Godox ad600s for shoots where I need to be less mobile and Im using my Canon 6D and my main lenses but I will be very happy when the update is released to I have all options open. ( I may roll back the drivers on the xc1 to see if an early version works ) 
If i have success I will post it up 
Gary


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## mazza1967 (Dec 11, 2016)

Update re M5 and Godox x1tc triggers Ive updated with V19 on the software released yesterday still not working , As a big fan of godox slightly disappointing that they have ignored 3 e-mails asking them to verify if they have this update in development , In the mean time I'm using the youngnuo 622c triggers to fire my speed lights which all work fine .


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