# laptop for tethered shooting?



## Jeff (Jul 19, 2014)

My Macbook pro laptop was stolen, so I need to buy a new laptop for tethered shooting. Over the years I've come to the conclusion I don't use the laptop for _any_ image editing and doubt I will even install photoshop on the next one. I'm asking myself why pay the Apple premium for a good laptop when I am using it for emails and as an electronic Polaroid.

I'm looking for suggestions on a laptop that works good for tethered shooting? It would be awesome if I could connect it via HDMI and use it as a video monitor as well. tablets that only connect via WiFi are out because I _have_ to connect via a cord at times.

My main workstation will stay a MacPro. Will there be any major problems transferring Raw files from an external drive recorded via a Windows machine to the MacPro? As long as the drive is journled to the MS-DOT fat I should be ok, correct?

thanks for any insights.


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## tolusina (Jul 19, 2014)

DSLR Controller on most recent Android phones and tablets.
You'll need to add an inexpensive USB OTG Host cable between your Canon's USB cable and the Android device, the app automatically launches as soon as a powered on and compatible Canon is connected.
DSLR Controller is loaded with capabilities, features.
There are several users here, I've not seen any complaints posted yet.


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## alexanderferdinand (Jul 20, 2014)

Very good program with a small drawback: I have to turn of all the settings for back button focusing- otherwise the application refuses to work and shuts down.


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## agierke (Jul 20, 2014)

something makes me think that you guys are missing the point with DSLR controller. usually the point of shooting tethered is to 1. have a large screen to preview images and 2. have a hard drive that the images can be stored on immediately outside of the CF card. DSLR Controller doesn't solve those issues.

to the OP, unfortunately i am only familiar with apple products so i cant really help you with windows options. sry about the loss...i freaking hate thieves!


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## lion rock (Jul 20, 2014)

I like my iPAD, retina, 256 gB RAM. It holds over 1500 photos, with space to spare with large .jpg from 5D3. YMMV., with programs installed.
For remote tethering, I use CamRanger connected with WiFi., a bit slow because of the communication between camera and CamRanger. (Read about other features a out CamRanger from their website). Nice about the setup is that I can show my subjects the photos I shoot, and I get feedback from them.
I use PhotoGene to quickly do minor .jpg adjustment. Haven't tried to import nor edit RAW with iPAD.
This combination has allowed me to travel abroad and do some portraits works.
MacBook Pro do have more computing power, but really cost too much just used for tethering.
Really regret that your laptop got stolen.
Best of luck.
-r


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## wtlloyd (Jul 20, 2014)

DSLR Controller is an excellent product. Super useful in real estate and product photography. True, turning off back-button AF is a drag. 

Images get stored on the card in camera. Why would I need to immediately put them on another drive? I don't need that when I use my cameras untethered.

I guess I could write to both cards on my 1D4, but I don't bother.

I have a Samsung Note 10.1 2014, plenty fast image display, good rendering of scene. Love the focus adjustments at 10X. Using the OTG usb cable as mentioned earlier, wireless is much slower.


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## MacroBug (Jul 20, 2014)

Do you have to turn off back button focus settings with CamRanger? I'm intrigued for macro shooting.


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## Valvebounce (Jul 20, 2014)

Hi agierke. 
I have tried DSLR Controller. 
What is a large screen? Obviously it is not the 3" screen on the camera, unless you started with a 300D, is a 7.1" or 10" screen not a larger screen? 
A hard drive that the images can be stored on. Like the internal memory or add on memory in the android device? 
Maybe it is you who has missed the convenience and ability of DSLR Controller? Tab 7.1 fits cargo pants pocket, put your laptop in a pocket! I know it is horses for courses, much larger drive in laptop which I can't fit in a tablet, faster processor not in tablet. I think that the power of tablets that are not iKnobled is somewhat underestimated! 

Wtlloyd and alexanderferdinand. Have you tried cancel (or is it just OK?(Can't check due to tablet being away for repair)) on the BBF warning? That's what I do, I've not found a problem with this route on my 7D and Samsung tab2 7.1. I guess that there may be something that will fall over due to this setting, but with normal(ish) use I haven't found it! 

Cheers Graham. 



agierke said:


> something makes me think that you guys are missing the point with DSLR controller. usually the point of shooting tethered is to 1. have a large screen to preview images and 2. have a hard drive that the images can be stored on immediately outside of the CF card. DSLR Controller doesn't solve those issues.
> 
> to the OP, unfortunately i am only familiar with apple products so i cant really help you with windows options. sry about the loss...i freaking hate thieves!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 21, 2014)

It all depends on your usage. I tether mine to a 24 inch screen in my studio, and to a 12" Lenovo laptop. That Lenovo screen is horrible, and calibrating it is of little help.

I'd suggest that you stick with what you know (MAC), but there are many good windows laptops, so look for one with a good screen. There are very few in the excellent category as far as screen goes, and they tend to cost almost as much as a Mac.

I personally would stay away from Windows 8 or 8.1, I just upgraded my pc to 8.1, and there are some issues that will not let me use it the way I want.

I have it installed on its own hard drive, and update it from time to time to see if they have it working well. Some aspects are excellent, but the UI is unworkable for me.

I'd grab a windows 7 laptop if you can.

The Microsoft Surface Pro 3 is also something to look at, it runs windows software. You will have to deal with Windows 8.1 though. I'm too stuck in the past, having used personal computers since the 1980's. I've pretty much used all the mainstream ones, and Macs were my favorite, but they would not run m business software. Now, they can run windows software, so they are a good bet.


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## lion rock (Jul 21, 2014)

MacroBug said:


> Do you have to turn off back button focus settings with CamRanger? I'm intrigued for macro shooting.



No need for that. If you read the CamRanger website, the section on "live view" indicates that you can select the focus point of the scene from the iPAD. Fine focus can be done, too, with the iPAD.
CamRanger is a real versatile aid/tool for macro photography.

Look at my photo posted on http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20914.msg413371#msg413371, reply 25.
-r


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## tolusina (Jul 21, 2014)

agierke said:


> .....missing the point with DSLR controller. usually the point of shooting tethered is to ….
> 2. have a hard drive that the images can be stored on immediately outside of the CF card. DSLR Controller doesn't solve those issues.....


I disagree on this second point, or else I'm missing this second point. 
I'm not using a tethered tablet to store my entire catalog.
I have only 47 apps downloaded onto my ASUS MeMO Pad™ FHD 10 with 32GB internal storage, as I write this, 23.5GB of that internal storage is available. 
This ASUS tablet accepts up to 64GB mircoSD cards, I'm using a 32GB card, 22Gb are currently free. These microSD cards easily pop in and out of an external slot much like our camera's CF/SD cards, they are incredibly tiny and so easy to carry many. MicroSd cards are not as fast as CF cards but speed isn't a priority for me when tethered.
Between the tab's internal and removable microSD storage I have plenty storage for a shoot.





agierke said:


> .... usually the point of shooting tethered is to 1. have a large screen to preview images....


This ASUS has a 10.1" LED Backlight WUXGA (1920x1200) Screen. It's marvelous for 10X live viewing.
- - -
I chose this tablet primarily for it's screen, it's main reason to be purchased was to tether my 6D. 
My usage pretty much mirrors the OP's stated intent and quite economically too. 
Take another look at DSLR Controller’s capabilities and features, the list is quite impressive.

Mind, I'm not trying to sell anyone on this particular ASUS, it's just the one I chose. There are many to choose from.

Also, as need or situation dictates, I also use my smart phone for tethering, same app, a single app purchase price and it runs on all my androids.

Another feature I've found but isn't listed is shutter count.
- - -
Regarding BBF and DSLR Controller’s balking when BBF is set; I've found pretty much all my base hand held settings differ from my tethered settings so I set all my base tethered settings including shutter button focusing as a Custom Shooting Mode, all I now need to remember is to rotate the mode dial to 'C1' before tethering. Of course I usually forget this little step and have to re-connect.
- - -


MacroBug said:


> Do you have to turn off back button focus settings with CamRanger? I'm intrigued for macro shooting.


Can't say about CamRanger, but DSLR Controller rocks for macro shooting, stacked shooting is built in, no touch the camera's BBF, all focusing is done remotely. 
From what little I know of CamRanger, it's the thing if you need wireless tethering over a distance. 
If cabled tethering will serve, DSLR Controller is less hardware intensive, plug it in and it just works.


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## jrista (Jul 21, 2014)

Jeff said:


> My Macbook pro laptop was stolen, so I need to buy a new laptop for tethered shooting. Over the years I've come to the conclusion I don't use the laptop for _any_ image editing and doubt I will even install photoshop on the next one. I'm asking myself why pay the Apple premium for a good laptop when I am using it for emails and as an electronic Polaroid.
> 
> I'm looking for suggestions on a laptop that works good for tethered shooting? It would be awesome if I could connect it via HDMI and use it as a video monitor as well. tablets that only connect via WiFi are out because I _have_ to connect via a cord at times.
> 
> ...



Personally, I use a Surface Pro, which will soon be a Surface Pro 3. Very light weight, good battery longevity, beautiful high res screen (2560x1440 IIRC on the 3), and full blown windows. I have run PS and LR on my Surface Pro since I got it (over a year ago now). It's nice having a huge screen for live view, especially for landscapes.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 21, 2014)

jrista said:


> Personally, I use a Surface Pro, which will soon be a Surface Pro 3. Very light weight, good battery longevity, beautiful high res screen (2560x1440 IIRC on the 3), and full blown windows. I have run PS and LR on my Surface Pro since I got it (over a year ago now). It's nice having a huge screen for live view, especially for landscapes.



Keep us informed. My eyesight is not all that good, and the 12 in screen on the Surface Pro seems nice. I find the 12 in screen on my old Lenovo to be its weak point, it runs PS and LR wonderfully.

What Battery life do you get?


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## jrista (Jul 21, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I use a Surface Pro, which will soon be a Surface Pro 3. Very light weight, good battery longevity, beautiful high res screen (2560x1440 IIRC on the 3), and full blown windows. I have run PS and LR on my Surface Pro since I got it (over a year ago now). It's nice having a huge screen for live view, especially for landscapes.
> ...



I haven't replaced the Pro with the Pro 3 yet. I've messed with it in the Microsoft Store though. It's pretty phenomenal...the brightness, clarity and text crispness of the Pro 3 is pretty amazing. It's about as good as my Dell XPS 15, which has a 15.6" 3200x1800 screen. These new high density screens are, IMO, much better than the older 1920x1080px screens we used to have. The contrast is superior, the brightness is superior, and detail is just incredible. I love looking at photos on them. 

Also, keep in mind, most of these new laptops and talbets properly support high DPI text. The text on my XPS 15 is actually slightly larger than it is on my 2560x1600 desktop, and it's BRILLIANT. I LOVE it. Nothing is smaller, so there really aren't any issues if you have poor eyesight. You could even crank it up to 200dpi, and have maximum text size. It would look crisp and amazing. The only real quirk is browsers. IE supports high DPI natively, and it does a good job, but I actually prefer Opera. I switched to Chrome when Opera Next came out (hoping Opera eventually gets back to the featureset it used to have...it had some amazing features). Chrome does high DPI if you download the version that supports it and force enable high DPI mode. It does quite well for most things...everything, including the browser controls themselves, render at "normal" size (so around 144% to 200% larger in terms of absolute pixel dimensions than on a lower DPI screen), so again, no issue with eyesight. I've noticed, though, that sometimes the browser just lags, as it doesn't seem to handle processing that many pixels all that well.

There is one other thing I love about Surface Pro: The pen. It can be tough trying to use standard desktop applications with touch, and using a keyboard out in the field is just a pain. The pen, though, is brilliant. It works flawlessly, it's extremely accurate, and I actually love tweaking Lightroom controls with the pen. It just seems more natural. I actually wish I could do that on my desktop (really can't wait for full multi-touch 4k screens to arrive for desktop.) The pen is, IMO, one of Microsoft's most brilliant moves, as it really makes the whole dual-mode OS work when used on a tablet. Even if you use apps that don't support high DPI (like LR), the pen makes them eminently usable.

If you want a nice, very portable, high resolution device with High DPI text and rendering support for windows applications, you should really look at the Surface Pro line. Tough to beat, especially for the price range. The Dell XPS 15 is probably the best windows device on the market, but it clocks in at two grand (well, I guess more than that, I got it on sale when the Pro 3 was released...I think the regular price is about $2399.)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 21, 2014)

Thanks, Jrista. 

I bought a 7" Amazon Kindle Fire HD for Christmas, and I know how good the high resolution screens are, its only 7 inches, but I can read text with no problem. However, I need a keyboard. I use a pen with the Amazon tablet, the same pen works with my G1X MK II, but I struggle swiping with pens because the fine motor function in my fingers is screwed up. I can pound keys, and tap the keys on screen with the pen, but even writing my name has become extremely difficult. I have a Wacom Tablet, but that issue using the pen really makes it hard to use. Its not something that practice is going to eliminate, the nerves are shot. I've already had surgery on both hands, but that did not really help.

I had looked the Surface Pro II over before getting the cheap tablet, its useful for e-mail and reading books, that's all I use it for though. I'd probably use the Surface Pro.


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## jrista (Jul 21, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Thanks, Jrista.
> 
> I bought a 7" Amazon Kindle Fire HD for Christmas, and I know how good the high resolution screens are, its only 7 inches, but I can read text with no problem. However, I need a keyboard. I use a pen with the Amazon tablet, the same pen works with my G1X MK II, but I struggle swiping with pens because the fine motor function in my fingers is screwed up. I can pound keys, and tap the keys on screen with the pen, but even writing my name has become extremely difficult. I have a Wacom Tablet, but that issue using the pen really makes it hard to use. Its not something that practice is going to eliminate, the nerves are shot. I've already had surgery on both hands, but that did not really help.
> 
> I had looked the Surface Pro II over before getting the cheap tablet, its useful for e-mail and reading books, that's all I use it for though. I'd probably use the Surface Pro.



The Pro 3 is a bit larger, and I think by default it comes with the attachable keyboard that has real keys. In the store, it felt very nice. The kickstand has been dramatically improved as well. It now works at pretty much any angle, and can even be pushed far out such that you can actually use the whole setup on your lap (like a normal laptop). The screen lays out more flat, over your knees, but it actually can work, where as with the prior Surface Pros, using them in your lap was pretty tough. I got the touch keypad with my Surface Pro...and that is the only thing I really regret. The type keypad is much better, the standard keyboard feedback is just essential, imo, to be able to use the keyboard properly.

Regarding the pen...it's incredibly natural. You don't have to do any special moves or anything like that to get it to work. It isn't the same as a Wacom tablet, those are devices intended to control palettes of controls, use gestures for controlling application features, etc. They are much more complicated, and these days, maybe needlessly so. With the Surface Pen, you bring it close to the screen (don't even have to touch it), and you get a small round cursor, kind of like the mouse cursor. That cursor will lightly and intelligently "snap" to controls, so it's pretty easy to get it onto buttons and things like that...it was pretty effortless to get it onto the LR develop module sliders, which on my Surface Pro I, are really tiny. From there on out, you can effectively use the pen like a mouse. You can seamlessly move between using the pen as a mouse, to using it to tap keys on a virtual keyboard, to using it for handwriting input (which also works flawlessly, I take notes in business meetings on my Surface Pro with the handwriting feature...it's amazing, it worked from day one without any training of any kind, printed or cursive.) It's pressure sensitive, so it can be used for art or just general brushing in photoshop (i.e. dodge/burn), it has an eraser for word deletion in documents or when handwriting. There are also other pens and digital brushes you can get that work with the Pro 3 as well, although from what I've read, most of those are really geared towards the digital artist, people who are literally painting digitally in some of the new metro apps designed just for that thing. 

At the very least, I recommend going into a Microsoft store and just giving the whole package a try. It's best to know what your getting before you get it, and you may simply find something about the design and style of the Surface Pro just doesn't fit your usage scenario (it fills a rather unique spot, being kind of the ultimate convertible tablet, that really works like a laptop, but is also a true tablet.) You may find that one of the other brands convertibles is better (i.e. you may just not be able to use the Surface Pro 3 on your lap, and need a more rigid and more rigidly attached keyboard). I would be willing to bet, though, that you pick up the pen pretty quickly. It's kind of an essential tool, as not every app supports high DPI modes yet, and some older ones render controls pretty small on high DPI screens.


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## DFM (Jul 21, 2014)

I also use a Surface Pro for remote location work - it's useful to have Lightroom and CC available to run quick edits for a client, and it's happy to run EOS Utility on the end of a 15m USB cable for polecam stuff. But there are some issues compared to a regular laptop:

- Relatively small, fixed SSD. Windows will take up half, so on a multi-day shoot with raw files or video, the entry-level models are easy to fill. The 256G versions are quite a hike in price. You can plug in external drives, but...
- Only one USB3 port. It's nice to have USB3 for a card reader, but if you're trying to copy from a card to an external drive or offload a card while tethered, you need a spiderweb of portable hubs, external battery packs; it starts looking messy.
- Battery life on the SP1 and SP2 aren't all that great; it is after all a laptop in a tablet case. I'm happy to get an hour of heavy-lifting before my SP2 complains. MS sell car chargers and the 'power cover' keyboard for another $200, but the options for an external battery pack are limited to say the least, thanks to the magnetic connector.
- You have a mini-displayport for plugging in a larger screen (up to 3840 x 2160); easy to find $5 adapters for HDMI or DVI, but the port itself is hardly what you call rugged, and short of superglue there's _nothing_ on the Surface you can attach strain reliefs to.
- You cannot repair it, period. It's sealed, glued, welded, protected by a curse, then glued again. When the battery gets worn out, you have a placemat.

Having said that, you do get CPU performance comparable to laptops. I've converted and graded MLV raw footage on it to send dailies across; not exactly a 60-second job but it was a whole lot easier to hike to the location without a 17" XPS laptop


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## Jeff (Jul 22, 2014)

Just wanted to thank everyone for their informative insights. Gives me a lot to think about. It looks like prices are similar to Apple products and if that's the case it hard to split off of Apple's iCloud. For those using an iPad to shoot tethered via WiFi what are the downsides? Is it perfect 100% of the time there must be some problems?

thanks again,

Jeff


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## Forceflow (Jul 24, 2014)

Just want to second the Surface Pro choice. I use it myself and I find it an extremely valuable tool for tethered shooting. The large screen makes it really easy to perfectly set the focus. Battery life is okay as well and it's light enough to carry around for quite a while. I also use it to do my focus stackings, so much easier to really control the focus and to make sure you really covered the whole area.
Only downside I see is that using it with the USB attached it will suck my 7Ds battery dry in no time. Be sure to have plenty of spare if you intend to do longer shootings.


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## lion rock (Jul 24, 2014)

Jeff,

Only quirk I find lacking is that iPAD won't provide EXIF that you can see easily.
I'm looking for an iPAD application that can display EXIF, perhaps someone here can suggest several we can try out.
Thanks.
-r




Jeff said:


> ...
> For those using an iPad to shoot tethered via WiFi what are the downsides? Is it perfect 100% of the time there must be some problems?
> 
> thanks again,
> ...


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## Famateur (Jul 24, 2014)

jrista said:


> ...It's about as good as my Dell XPS 15, which has a 15.6" 3200x1800 screen...
> ...The text on my XPS 15 is actually slightly larger than it is on my 2560x1600 desktop, and it's BRILLIANT.



Jrista, I'm curious about your experience with Lightroom with a 3200x1800 display and scaling. I've heard that for screens of that density on a laptop it was nearly unusable (didn't support scaling or didn't do it well).

I'm about to order a replacement business laptop (my faithful HP mobile workstation is finally reaching the point -- after 7 years -- where it's having a hard time keeping up with processing requirements these days). The new machine will be a Dell Precision M3800 Mobile Workstation (I think it's just a "business" version of the XPS). Trying to decide if I want to "future-proof" by choosing the 3200x1800 IGZO display over the 1920x1080 for another $120 or to spend the difference on more RAM -- and I know Lightroom loves RAM.  Both displays are IPS and have the Ultrasharp moniker, so I'm expecting them to be pretty darn good.

With your experience using Lightroom on the 3200x1800 XPS, would you say it's worth it, or would you double your RAM?

Thanks!


To the OP, theft is one of those things that just makes my blood boil. We work hard for what we have, and then someone decides they can just take it. In a period of about 11 months, I had two cars stolen, three stereos, a tank of gas (from the loaner truck I was using after the car was stolen) and a large toolbox of plumbing tools right out of my condo laundry room. I know that sinking feeling well. Needless to say, I've moved FAR away from that place to a quiet neighborhood on the outskirts. Good luck with your decision on replacing your Mac...


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## jrista (Jul 24, 2014)

Famateur said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > ...It's about as good as my Dell XPS 15, which has a 15.6" 3200x1800 screen...
> ...



If you use a stylus, then it's not a big deal. Windows 8.1 and styluses work extremely well together, and using the small controls is not a big problem. It isn't even that bad with a mouse, but I've found the stylus is a bit better. The controls do get small, though, everything is small, as Adobe does not seem to have put any effort into supporting High DPI displays yet. I don't know why, they are rapidly becoming ubiquitous, and with 4k on the way, they will be well behind the times if they don't do something about it soon.


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## Famateur (Jul 24, 2014)

jrista said:


> ...Adobe does not seem to have put any effort into supporting High DPI displays yet. I don't know why, they are rapidly becoming ubiquitous, and with 4k on the way, they will be well behind the times if they don't do something about it soon.



I was thinking the same thing. While the display on the M3800 is touch, I'm not sure if a stylus will be practical/possible (plus, I'll be downgrading to Win7, and I'm not sure how 7's support is for touch).

To your point about the trend toward 4K, it would surprise me if Adobe didn't get with the scaling program soon. If I can get anywhere near the lifespan out of the new Dell as I have with this HP, then 3200x1800 might be a good bet, counting on Adobe to catch up in the next year or two.

Thanks for the input!

Maybe I spring for the 3200x1800 display now, knowing I can add more RAM any time in the future. Adding more pixels, not so much...


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## jrista (Jul 24, 2014)

Famateur said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > ...Adobe does not seem to have put any effort into supporting High DPI displays yet. I don't know why, they are rapidly becoming ubiquitous, and with 4k on the way, they will be well behind the times if they don't do something about it soon.
> ...



I'd warn you away from Windows 7 if going high DPI. Windows 7 has the bare minimum support for it possible. Windows 8.1 Update 1 has VASTLY superior High DPI scaling and support. There is also little reason to not use Widnows 8.1 these days. You boot into the desktop by default, which is nearly identical to Windows 7 with a few minor tweaks here and there. The only major difference is the start menu has been replaced with the start screen, however you can get third-party utilities that restore the start menu as well. 

Windows 8 boots in seconds, and overall uses far less memory and is generally much faster than Windows 7. It is also far more resource efficient, which increases battery life in a laptop compared to Windows 7. There is very, very little reason to downgrade, and so many reasons to stay with Windows 8. If you go with a 3200x1800, Win 8.1 is definitely the better option.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 24, 2014)

jrista said:


> I was thinking the same thing. While the display on the M3800 is touch, I'm not sure if a stylus will be practical/possible (plus, I'll be downgrading to Win7, and I'm not sure how 7's support is for touch).
> 
> To your point about the trend toward 4K, it would surprise me if Adobe didn't get with the scaling program soon. If I can get anywhere near the lifespan out of the new Dell as I have with this HP, then 3200x1800 might be a good bet, counting on Adobe to catch up in the next year or two.
> 
> ...



I'd warn you away from Windows 7 if going high DPI. Windows 7 has the bare minimum support for it possible. Windows 8.1 Update 1 has VASTLY superior High DPI scaling and support. There is also little reason to not use Widnows 8.1 these days. You boot into the desktop by default, which is nearly identical to Windows 7 with a few minor tweaks here and there. The only major difference is the start menu has been replaced with the start screen, however you can get third-party utilities that restore the start menu as well. 

Windows 8 boots in seconds, and overall uses far less memory and is generally much faster than Windows 7. It is also far more resource efficient, which increases battery life in a laptop compared to Windows 7. There is very, very little reason to downgrade, and so many reasons to stay with Windows 8. If you go with a 3200x1800, Win 8.1 is definitely the better option.
[/quote]

I just upgraded to 8.1, and shortly after reading Microsoft's support files about problems I was having with IE 11, I went back to windows 7. I'll give 8.2 a try to see if it fixes the issues. I like to put links to web sites on the desktop by dragging from IE, that does not work. Dragging them to the favorites bar in IS 11 also doesn't work.

That feature is something I use a lot. Microsoft says they are aware of the issue, but that's all.

Other than that, I found Windows 8 to be faster than Win 7, and generally a improvement. Its the details that get you. With Windows 9 said to be coming out next year, I wonder what we'll see.

I have a relative who is a manager at Microsoft, and he uses it because he has to, but also uses Start 8 like I did.

Windows 8 would not stop me from buying a Surface 3, I would not be using it as a primary machine.


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## jrista (Jul 24, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I just upgraded to 8.1, and shortly after reading Microsoft's support files about problems I was having with IE 11, I went back to windows 7. I'll give 8.2 a try to see if it fixes the issues. I like to put links to web sites on the desktop by dragging from IE, that does not work. Dragging them to the favorites bar in IS 11 also doesn't work.
> 
> That feature is something I use a lot. Microsoft says they are aware of the issue, but that's all.



I have IE 11, and I just tried doing both, dragging to desktop and dragging to bookmarks bar. Both worked. 

The only thing I know of that would prevent that is if the IE instance was running under a different account. That can happen if you run it as administrator. In which case, windows security mechanisms are kicking in, and you WANT that. Otherwise you'd have a security hole that people could exploit. 

Make sure IE is running under the same account as your logging in as, and you shouldn't have problems dragging pages to the desktop or the bookmarks bar.

Oh, and just as an FYI, to drag links, you have to drag the page icon off the address bar. It's just to the left of the page address itself. As far as I know, there is no other way to drag links...but dragging the page icon always seems to work for me. That also seems to work for most other browsers as well. It works in Chrome/Opera, as well as FireFox.


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## Famateur (Jul 24, 2014)

jrista said:


> I'd warn you away from Windows 7 if going high DPI. Windows 7 has the bare minimum support for it possible. Windows 8.1 Update 1 has VASTLY superior High DPI scaling and support. There is also little reason to not use Widnows 8.1 these days. You boot into the desktop by default, which is nearly identical to Windows 7 with a few minor tweaks here and there. The only major difference is the start menu has been replaced with the start screen, however you can get third-party utilities that restore the start menu as well.
> 
> Windows 8 boots in seconds, and overall uses far less memory and is generally much faster than Windows 7. It is also far more resource efficient, which increases battery life in a laptop compared to Windows 7. There is very, very little reason to downgrade, and so many reasons to stay with Windows 8. If you go with a 3200x1800, Win 8.1 is definitely the better option.



Good info -- thanks. I've been using Classic Shell on Windows 7 to try to maintain the UI experience I enjoyed with XP for so long, so I'm guessing I can do the same on 8.1. If performance and battery life are that much better, I might just give it a shot. Thanks for the recommendation!



Small Rant to Microsoft:

The user experience, particularly navigation, is sacred. Yes, people can (and must, at times) adapt to new interfaces, but _how _we do things is the most important part of the user experience, and for those of us who use their computer for 8-10 hours per day, or more, little annoyances become major pain points (why take away my Up Folder button??? Even "restoring it", it no longer navigates literally UP the file structure on the disk).

If I had one wish for Microsoft to grant for a future release of Windows, it would be this: Make every, single, element, of the user interface customizable. Allow me to drag, arrange, pin, doc, hide whatever I want, wherever I want it. This includes menus, toolbars, taskbars, anything. Let me choose which mode the OS boots/runs in, regardless of the device it's running on. Let me choose how I want the OS to serve me. Don't force me to live with your choices on my behalf. I appreciate the effort to guess my wants and needs, but give me the option to override your choice if it misses. 

Feel free to have everything a certain way as a default for beginners, but give UI nuts like me the ultimate in flexibility. I want MY Windows experience to be _mine._ 

Mozilla Firefox _almost _got there with the latest version. I can customize and arrange nearly everything about the toolbars, even the contents and order of what's in the menu. The only thing they dropped the ball on was locking the Stop/Refresh button inside the address bar (it's tiny, too) and removing the Separator from the menu of doo-dads you can choose from to customize the toolbar.

One can dream...For now, I'm still getting by with a combination of Classic Shell, Nexus Dock and various registry hacks. 

While I'm at it, if I had a second wish it would be: Store the operating system and programs on one partition and all my files on another _by default_ so re-imaging is quick and easy, without affecting my files/data. I do this manually any time I get a new machine, but I still have to go through and change the default locations of things like My Documents, My Pictures, et cetera. Why mingle all my data on the same logical drive as the OS and programs? If something borks my registry or otherwise pollutes my operating system, I want to just re-image and move on with life.

Whew! Sorry about that, guys/gals. Just had to get that out of my system. :-X


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## DFM (Jul 24, 2014)

jrista said:


> The controls do get small, though, everything is small, as Adobe does not seem to have put any effort into supporting High DPI displays yet.



Lightroom 5 fully supports HiDPI Retina displays, and on Windows it has a 200% UI font scaling option. Most of the CC products are in the same state. Windows rendering isn't as good as OS X Retina, because it has a number of issues with HiDPI scaling that Adobe are working closely with Microsoft to address. It will be a while before we get feature parity.


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## jrista (Jul 25, 2014)

DFM said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > The controls do get small, though, everything is small, as Adobe does not seem to have put any effort into supporting High DPI displays yet.
> ...



A 200% scale would be too large, though...at least, on anything less than a true 4k screen. Windows supports multiple scaling (i.e. 125%, 150%, 200%, and even higher than that for future high DPI displays), and Windows 8.1 is now actually capable of scaling dynamically depending on the display for multi-headed systems. Adobe should really integrate properly with Windows so that if, for example, I wanted to pull off a loupe onto a second screen that has a different DPI, it would use the Windows 8.1 scaling, rather than use some fixed built-in scaling that is independent of the OS.

If your trying to force the OS to conform to the Adobe-custom DPI approach, that's the wrong solution. Your forever going to be working against the Microsoft grain. Reference and use the OS DPI/scaling factor, and properly adjust the DPI used to render windows that are pulled off onto different screens, so that we Windows users can comfortably use multiple screens with different DPIs as we please. 

At the moment, I believe Windows supports the following scales:

96dpi/100%
120dpi/125%
144dpi/150%
192dpi/200%
240dpi/250%
288dpi/300%
384dpi/400%
480dpi/500%


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## Famateur (Jul 25, 2014)

DFM said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > The controls do get small, though, everything is small, as Adobe does not seem to have put any effort into supporting High DPI displays yet.
> ...



Glad to hear Adobe is working with Microsoft on improving scaling for HiDPI displays. Good points from Jrista, too, about multiple monitors. I rarely have fewer than two monitors, so this is particularly interesting to me. Any word on whether Adobe will dynamically scale the Lightroom UI (eventually) based on destination display DPI?


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## lion rock (Jul 25, 2014)

Famateur said:


> > Small Rant to Microsoft:
> >
> >
> > ...
> ...


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## jrista (Jul 25, 2014)

Famateur said:


> If I had one wish for Microsoft to grant for a future release of Windows, it would be this: Make every, single, element, of the user interface customizable. Allow me to drag, arrange, pin, doc, hide whatever I want, wherever I want it. This includes menus, toolbars, taskbars, anything. Let me choose which mode the OS boots/runs in, regardless of the device it's running on. Let me choose how I want the OS to serve me. Don't force me to live with your choices on my behalf. I appreciate the effort to guess my wants and needs, but give me the option to override your choice if it misses.
> 
> Feel free to have everything a certain way as a default for beginners, but give UI nuts like me the ultimate in flexibility. I want MY Windows experience to be _mine._



You really don't understand what your asking for, there.  Do you know what it would take to develop an OS that was 100% completely and totally customizable like that? It's a nearly incomprehensible job, especially with an established platform that existing customers rely on to keep functioning the way it always has for backwards compatibility purposes. Companies have tried, Microsoft actually tried once, with Longhorn. They put a *massive* amount of time, money, and effort into it, and some of the initial early alphas (one of which I have, somewhere, on a DVD here) were AWE-SOME. Microsoft built a new OS that pretty much wiped the floor with any other OS. It, in my opinion, was nearly the perfect OS (barring the still-present bugs at that time, and some un-finished features...the core of it all was WinFS, the melding of hierarchical and relational databases into a journaled file system; The Longhorn OS was originally built on top of that core file and data management concept, and everything integrated with it...it...was...amazing). You can see this concept here:

Longhorn concept

The alpha I used wasn't quite as polished as this video shows, I think they doctored some things up, but overall, that's what Windows Longhorn was designed to do and be (which was what Vista was originally supposed to be, an early form of it). The media management alone was beyond phenomenal. The customizability was a lot higher than current versions of Windows, they had a lot more docking capabilities, search was amazing, they had an early version of the metro UI concept, where apps didn't have to be regular old windows with a title bar, a menu bar, a toolbar and a client content area...free form apps that could look like anything, but they didn't always have to be full screen (although I understand why Metro/Win8 touch apps have to be full screen or minimally tiled, given the touch nature of tablets.) 

So, why didn't they release it? Why didn't they make Vista the original Longhorn? Why did they revert back to a more primitive form of windows? *Two reasons*. First, the backwards compatibility thing. Microsoft originally rewrote Longhorn from the ground up on an entirely new concept (a concept they are still experimenting with, you can read more about it if you look up their Singularity research project). This brand new totaly rewritten OS lost a significant amount of backward compatibility. Microsoft tried to jettison all the ancient cruft that still litters the OS today, even in Windows 8. They found that they simply couldn't...massive breaking changes to backwards compatibility would have alienated the majority of their existing installed base. Early leaked alphas, as cool as they were, alarmed the most important segment of Microsofts business: The enterprise. 

As for the other reason, you already said it: Too much change. Microsoft put billions of dollars into Longhorn, then billions more to "revert" it back into what Vista ended up actually releasing as. Despite how freaking cool Longhorn was...people freaked out about it in early trials. Not the people who thought it was amazing, the people who could see the power buried just underneath the surface....but everyone else. All the hundreds of millions of "average" computer users who expect Windows to always look and behave "just like Windows." The people who abhor change (unless it comes from Apple, of course, Apple is the god-king-fruitloop of the brainwashed masses.... :) 

Microsoft, ever since then, has been VERY careful about what they change and how much they change in each new version of Windows. People complain about Windows 8 being too much change...lol...people have NO IDEA what "change" is until they have given Windows Longhorn a try. Windows 8 was a TIMID push into a touch OS. It added a new form of app, and really only changed two major things that all users would see: The start menu became a start screen, and menu bars in built-in desktop apps were changed to ribbon bars. That's it! The changes from Vista to Windows 7 were even more minimal than that. Microsoft has released two additional versions of windows since v8...8.1 and now 8.1U1 (8.2). Both 8.1 and 8.1U1 have also been minimalistic updates. They can't do more than that, they can't add in a ton of features, because if they do, a very meaningfully significant portion of the some BILLION users who run Windows will bitch and moan about it. 

Microsoft's taken on the only strategy they can these days: Make some *small* changes, see how people react, listen to their feedback, and make a few more *small* changes. Rinse, repeat, ad. infi. They wasted billions of dollars making Longhorn...and it was pretty much all pure waste. They can't waste that kind of money again, so the hope of a truly radical, innovative, and ground breaking new operating system (and Microsoft is probably the only company on earth that could pull such a thing off...Apple couldn't, Apple only ever releases individual, isolated feature updates to OS X, and OS X was only successful because of how utterly horrible the original NON-multitasking MacOS was, and the most siginficant thing they have done with iOS is give it a face lift...underneath, it's still the same core OS, and they will never be able to change it lest they bring the ire and wrath of all iPhone and iPad users...hmm, that sounds familiar...) a groundbreaking new operating system is a dead hope. Microsoft learned a painfully expensive lesson from Longhorn. Despite all of us, including myself, who really, really, REALLY wanted Longhorn (and the underlying core WinFS technology) to be released, as well as some of the talked about improvements that were supposed to follow the initial retail release of Longhorn and improve things even more, the masses trumped us. 

And that's all that really matters. A significant portion of the _masses_, the consumers, abhor change, refuse to accept change, and therefor have saddled Microsoft with an operating system that cannot EVER look ANY different than it has since 1995 (despite the fact that they have all been asking for Microsoft to "change" one thing or another that they personally hate in Windows for decades, they still don't actually want change). The other significant portion of the _masses_, the enterprise, can't let go of their _ancient_ technology, and therefor have saddled Microsoft with an operating system that cannot EVER remove ANY of the ancient cruft sagging in it's underbelly, dragging all the rest of the OS down along with it.

Ironically, Microsoft built an OS that over a billion running computers can't do without, and yet at the same time, built an OS that they cannot change without losing customers. They built themselves their own Catch-22 from which they apparently can never escape...





Famateur said:


> Mozilla Firefox _almost _got there with the latest version. I can customize and arrange nearly everything about the toolbars, even the contents and order of what's in the menu. The only thing they dropped the ball on was locking the Stop/Refresh button inside the address bar (it's tiny, too) and removing the Separator from the menu of doo-dads you can choose from to customize the toolbar.



You should look at Opera 12. Before they ditched their own rendering engine and become a Chrome Clone, Opera was the most customizable, feature rich browser on earth. I'm a BIG fan of Opera up through v12. Opera was phenomenal. It was almost like a web operating system in and of itself...it did everything, beyond browsing it was fully skinnable, did email (IMAP, POP), torrent downloads, IRC chat, it had a fully featured widget framework, it was the first browser with tabs, the first browser with tab grouping, the first browser with tab previews and thumbnail tabs, it was the first browser to sync settings across computers, it was pretty much the first browser to do anything. I think the only thing it didn't do first was the FireBug thing...FireBug was first, Opera DragonFly came after. All other browsers copied things from Opera, and even today, Opera 12 is the most feature rich browser I've ever used. 

I'm pretty sad that the company ditched their own rendering engine, Presto, for Chromium...Opera is just a Chrome clone now, and a less feature rich one at that (as they have to wait for Chrome itself to be updated before they can integrate the new Chromium engine version into Opera, so Opera versions 15 and up are always behind Chrome). Truly a sad thing.



Famateur said:


> While I'm at it, if I had a second wish it would be: Store the operating system and programs on one partition and all my files on another _by default_ so re-imaging is quick and easy, without affecting my files/data. I do this manually any time I get a new machine, but I still have to go through and change the default locations of things like My Documents, My Pictures, et cetera. Why mingle all my data on the same logical drive as the OS and programs? If something borks my registry or otherwise pollutes my operating system, I want to just re-image and move on with life.



You should be able to do this. Each version of Windows has had the ability to import settings or import settings and apps from prior installs. If you configured your system drive to point to another drive for all your "User" folders, like Documents, Pictures, etc., you should just be able to import those settings (assuming you didn't format the original drive). In more recent versions of Windows, I believe you can even mount a Windows full-drive backup, and import the settings from that (in the event that your original boot drive fully died.) 

As for installing on another drive by default, there would be risks involved in that, especially for less computer literate users. If you've noticed the trend with the Windows install, it has progressively become less and less interactive from the original release of Windows 95. Windows 8 install is almost entirely automated. All you really have to do is pick the partition you want to install on (and maybe create that partition, however if you just pick a new, blank hard drive, it will partition it properly for you as well), and then let the install run. The entire Windows 8.x installs are completely automated, and the only time you actually interact with it is pretty much after the OS is installed, and your just picking your basic settings...what colors, what's your username, do you want to use wifi, etc. I don't even think it asks you for timezone anymore...it figures that out on its own by using the new Windows 8 location service to figure out where you are in the world, and sets the timezone accordingly. 

It isn't that hard to redirect your personal folders to another drive, and that's pretty much a one-time thing any time you install, so personally, given that I do the same thing, it isn't at the top of my complaint list. 

There is another option for this as well. Windows has supported inline mount points, hard links and symbolic links for quite some time. You could just xcopy your entire user folder to another drive, log into another account (preferably administrator), then either mount that whole entire drive at C:\Users\YourUserName, or symlink it (basically point C:\Users\YourUserName to, say E:\). Then, it would be a simple matter of simply remounting your relinking your user profile any time you reinstalled the system. 

(That's another one of Microsofts problems...only technology professionals know about the really cool things you can do with Windows. PowerShell is one of the most amazing features of Windows, and it wipes the floor with Bash and pretty much any other unix/linux shell since it's fully object oriented instead of just text based...but again, only technology professionals know about it.) 

Anyway...I guess I'm rambling...


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## tolusina (Jul 25, 2014)

Back to the OP's stated use case..........



Jeff said:


> ….tethered shooting.....
> ….. I don't use the laptop for any image editing and doubt I will even install photoshop on the next one. .... I am using it for emails and as an electronic Polaroid.
> 
> ….... works good for tethered shooting?......
> ...


 
For this use case, a laptop is not needed, nor an M$ $urface device, a simple and inexpensive android tablet will do just fine, can actually excel at your stated purposes. 
I linked to DSLR Controller in a post back on the 1st page of this thread, maybe you'd like to review.

Do make certain that your choice of android tablet supports the USB host protocol which most do.
Also, avoid KitKat which is android versions 4.4 and later. With KitKat, only O.E. installed apps can write to removable SD cards, many (or most) apps installed from Google Play can only write to internal storage or USB host connected storage.

For file transfer, choose a tablet with removable storage, transfer to your MacPro with a card reader. As an example, my ASUS tablet takes microSD cards up to 32GB, if that's insufficient short term storage, another 32GB card can be had for around $40.

- - -
Regarding $urface, it does sound like almost a perfect portable device for a Windows user. 
My only issue with it is that it is glued together so thoroughly it may as well be a monolithic block of plastic, no internal tinkering, modifications or upgrades are possible. If I wanted a monolithic computing device, I think I know where to find Apple products, they do still run Boot Camp don't they?

@jrista,
I'm indeed intrigued by your Windows 8 observations and comments, you may have just convinced me to add yet another internal SSD to my workstation just to dual boot.
As far as Windows' interfaces go, even Windows 7 I dislike a lot, had to install Classic Shell to make it tolerable. I never even liked the XP interface, every time I used search I longed for Windows 2000. I though the interface on 2K was just perfect, too bad that version fell so far behind in so many ways.


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## jrista (Jul 25, 2014)

tolusina said:


> @jrista,
> I'm indeed intrigued by your Windows 8 observations and comments, you may have just convinced me to add yet another internal SSD to my workstation just to dual boot.
> As far as Windows' interfaces go, even Windows 7 I dislike a lot, had to install Classic Shell to make it tolerable. I never even liked the XP interface, every time I used search I longed for Windows 2000. I though the interface on 2K was just perfect, too bad that version fell so far behind in so many ways.



You might like the Windows 8 default interface. It's flat, but it's simple and non-glassy, not overdone and to colorful like XP. I just set it to a dark gray, and I've been quite happy with it. I stopped liking the 'primitive' Windows 95 "3D" look a long time ago...I was in with flat and photographic before Microsoft (and then everyone else, including web designers) went flat. I'm about as happy as I can be with modern user interfaces. Flat (and photographic), in my opinion, is the pinnacle of design.


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## jonathan7007 (Jul 25, 2014)

Hi, jumping back in. Jrista, loved knowing more about Longhorn, which I remember sounded really interesting. 

I noted another reference to dslrController, which I do use on shoots. I think I mentioned it way earlier in this thread, too. With images that require careful scrutiny I still stick with my Lenovo w520 running now either EOS Utility 2 or 3. Maybe my ASUS Transformer can't hold the detail because it's a year 2011 resolution 1280 x 800(?) screen. I can't zoom it clearly enough to know for sure the big interiors I do with a tilt and shift are sharp enough way in the back or to check subtle stuff in the foreground. Clients like it. Easier to work with as it's smaller and handholdable. Nice to have the ability to bracket the HDR stuff right from the screen, although dslrController is less able to control the 1DsMk3's I like to use on the tripod for those shoots. (older machine language internal software on that era of 1D body.)

I avidly read about the Surface units and I'd like to try to tether to one. The w520 has been GREAT, though. Still chugging along as it offers lots of customization and access inside the body. Plenty of RAM and a couple of SSDs.

Note that a bright spot for dslrController is the developer's support of wireless without requiring the expensive Canon device. Photographers have used it for some interesting benefits. I think I read that a shooter making an elaborate scene with multiple models walked out around the set firing shots so he could show every model the scene as shot and adjust pose, props, etc.

Know that there isn't any documentation. So you can't bring a binder to the shoot (as I do for EOS Utility) for the assistant to bone up on the software. It's quirky and if you switch bodies you get different features available. One good thing about it: seems less fussy about which cord you use than EOS Utility! 

This Lenovo does have LR and Photoshop. I have at times tethered into Lightroom. But they are there for work away from the office. This machine has a Quadro (right name?) nVidia board for discrete Graphics processing.

Jonathan


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## LDS (Jul 25, 2014)

DFM said:


> - Relatively small, fixed SSD. Windows will take up half, so on a multi-day shoot with raw files or video, the entry-level models are easy to fill. The 256G versions are quite a hike in price. You can plug in external drives, but...
> - Only one USB3 port. It's nice to have USB3 for a card reader, but if you're trying to copy from a card to an external drive or offload a card while tethered, you need a spiderweb of portable hubs, external battery packs; it starts looking messy.
> - You cannot repair it, period. It's sealed, glued, welded, protected by a curse, then glued again. When the battery gets worn out, you have a placemat.


- Bigger SSD are available up to 512G (and Windows takes an half only in the smaller one, the 64G one) - just it will cost you as much as a MacBook - and there's always the SD card slot you can use to increase storage.
-Why shuould you download a card while thetering? Ok, I understand what you mean, but I guess it's an acceptable compromise, after all while tethered you can dowloand from the camera. Or the the wifi module so you can keep the USB port free (just a big wallet hole, then)
- You cannot easily repair any of this new devices - most of them, including Apple products, to be so thin and light are built in ways you cannot get inside easily. If you need something you can open, you need something bigger and heavier.


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## Famateur (Jul 25, 2014)

jrista said:


> Microsoft actually tried once, with Longhorn. They put a massive amount of time, money, and effort into it, and some of the initial early alphas (one of which I have, somewhere, on a DVD here) were AWE-SOME. Microsoft built a new OS that pretty much wiped the floor with any other OS.



I remember having high hopes for longhorn, though I never actually took any of the alphas for a spin. When Vista rolled-out, it was more than disappointing... 



jrista said:


> ...unless it comes from Apple, of course, Apple is the god-king-fruitloop of the brainwashed masses....



LOL! Nicely put.



jrista said:


> ...massive breaking changes to backwards compatibility would have alienated the majority of their existing installed base.



Understood. Backward-compatibility is a two-edged sword for industry leaders -- it helps secure a loyal customer base who then hold innovation hostage to familiarity. When the "Up" folder button was abandoned, Microsoft indicated that it was a code-branching decision, and I'm sure there are thousands of similar decisions like that with each new version.

I might be mistaken, but I would think that UI customizations (menu items, taskbar layout, shortcuts, docs, toolbars, open/close/minimize buttons) would be possible without hitting the backward-compatibility wall -- it's the underlying functionality the interface is connected to that faces that constraint. What I'm imagining is a UI system that assigns every link, menu item, shortcut and UI widget a visibility status, location, behavior and relationship to other items. Then a user could mix and match and rearrange in whatever way they want. It's just the skin over the top of all the core functionality. Such customizability wouldn't prevent some things from being added/removed (like the Up folder button), but it would allow supreme flexibility in organizing the OS interface for the most personalized and efficient navigation and workflow.



jrista said:


> You should look at Opera 12. Before they ditched their own rendering engine and become a Chrome Clone, Opera was the most customizable, feature rich browser on earth.



I've actually got Opera 12.17 installed right now (mostly for cross-browser compatibility testing for work). While I've enjoyed it when I've used it, I admit that I've become so accustomed to Firefox over the years that (despite its flaws) I haven't given any other browsers a serious look. Maybe I'll blow the dust off Opera and check it out in more detail.



jrista said:


> There is another option for this as well. Windows has supported inline mount points, hard links and symbolic links for quite some time.



That works, too. I used to use Junction Link Magic to "move" stuff off the system drive.



Anyway, fun stuff. Thanks for the extra background and insights.

I think all I'm really wanting (and I know it's firmly in the "wish" category) is for Microsoft to A) Build the stellar OS I know they can build, and do it from the ground up, and B) Have a central guiding principle for the UI of ultimate customizeability for the user where they make as few "this is how/where we think it must be" decisions in favor of "let the users tweak it, hide it, move it, arrange it to their tastes".

By the way, as schizophrenic as Windows 8 seemed at first (is this for a mobile device or a desktop???), I fully support the idea of a single OS that serves multiple devices seamlessly. Ubuntu touch looks interesting on that front. The trick is to keep the learning curve across devices as low as possible while maintaining device-appropriate UI look/feel/behavior. Not Easy. I'm hoping Microsoft gets there sooner than later...



Apologies to the OP for the sidetrack. :-X


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## tolusina (Jul 25, 2014)

jrista said:


> .......
> 
> There is another option for this as well. Windows has supported inline mount points, hard links and symbolic links for quite some time. You could just xcopy your entire user folder to another drive, log into another account (preferably administrator), then either mount that whole entire drive at C:\Users\YourUserName, or symlink it (basically point C:\Users\YourUserName to, say E:\). Then, it would be a simple matter of simply remounting your relinking your user profile any time you reinstalled the system. …..
> 
> …....Anyway...I guess I'm rambling...



You ramble just fine, no need to apologize.

Anyway, how does this other option you mention, inline mount points, hard links, symlinks get implemented, how does one go about accomplishing any of these options?

I'm good as far as getting my files on another partition or drive, been doing that for years. 
After a fresh install, I use right click > properties on the desktop My Documents, then change it from default to my choice on another partition or drive. It sounds like you have other options or methods?
Or, am I already doing as you suggest without knowing the proper nomenclature, basically getting the job done without knowing the underlying mechanics of the thing?


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## jrista (Jul 25, 2014)

tolusina said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > .......
> ...



You can create symlinks with the 'mklink' command.

You can mount drives at folder mount points with the Disk Manager (right-click 'Computer'/'This PC' and then click Manage.)


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## tolusina (Jul 25, 2014)

jrista said:


> ......
> 
> You can create symlinks with the 'mklink' command.
> 
> You can mount drives at folder mount points with the Disk Manager (right-click 'Computer'/'This PC' and then click Manage.)


Did you feel the breeze as you soared right over my head? You quite lost me.
No matter though, I appreciate and thank you for the effort.

Understanding what you've suggested above is on the list of things I'd _like to know_ and understand but I don't think it's on the list I _need to know_. 
My data is safe from an OS reinstall now, data being on it's own drive, I think that's the important (to me) part.

Let's get back to taking and viewing pretty pictures, I don't want to take any more of your time on this topic nor continue to continue dragging this thread off topic.


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