# New EOS M This Week? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 16, 2013)

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<p><strong>Various reports

</strong>We’ve received various reports of a possible EOS M announcement this week. We’ll keep an eye on our inbox if something does come to fruition.</p>
<p><em><strong>Note:</strong> I am currently in Ireland and Italy (not at the same time) and may not be as quick with the information for the next few weeks.</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## AvTvM (Sep 16, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p><em><strong>Note:</strong> I am currently in Ireland and Italy (not at the same time) and may not be as quick with the information for the next few weeks.</em></p>
> <p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>
> [/html]



don't you worry. 
Knowing Canon for many years now ... if they announce anything soon, it will be disappointing anyway.


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## dadgummit (Sep 16, 2013)

Sounds promising. If it has: 
1. the 70D's sensor with dual pixel af 
2. an electronic view finder 
3. size similar to the original M (With an EVF it will have to be larger)
I think most people will be happy. Though there are some that will complain no matter what is released. 

On my would-be-nice list is the hope they style it after one of their retro cameras like the canonette or something.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 16, 2013)

More pancakes please


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## Daniel Flather (Sep 16, 2013)

dadgummit said:


> I think most people will be happy.



LOL


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## 9VIII (Sep 16, 2013)

Realistically I want DPAF, an EVF, and a little grip for my fingers (it should stick out at least as much as the shortest pancake).

Unrealistically I want all that with all the features of the 1Dx and the 400f5.6 update in EF-M.


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## ecka (Sep 16, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> More pancakes please



I agree. 1 pancake is not enough, I'm still hungry .
Good grip with LP-E6 battery in it would be great too.


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## infared (Sep 16, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> More pancakes please



Pancake, like the one in the photo for the article. That photo is hysterical!!!!!


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## dppaskewitz (Sep 16, 2013)

Does anyone else want to be able to connect a remote shutter trigger? Wired would be fine. Or did I just miss the slot on my current model M?


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## drjlo (Sep 16, 2013)

ecka said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > More pancakes please
> ...



It doesn't even have to be pancake; I would be very happy with a "portrait" length EF-M fast prime.


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## gmrza (Sep 16, 2013)

dadgummit said:


> Sounds promising. If it has:
> 1. the 70D's sensor with dual pixel af
> 2. an electronic view finder
> 3. size similar to the original M (With an EVF it will have to be larger)
> ...



The previous rumours all hinted to the first EOS-M announcement being a replacement of the current body. I would thus not expect an EVF. Because the AF on the original M handicapped it, I hope Canon will be introducing a DPAF sensor. I would also be interested in seeing a successor to the G1X with DPAF.


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## gmrza (Sep 16, 2013)

dppaskewitz said:


> Does anyone else want to be able to connect a remote shutter trigger? Wired would be fine. Or did I just miss the slot on my current model M?



That is my second complaint about the current model. Once Canon introduces an EOS-M body with decent AF and a wired shutter release socket, I will be very interested.


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## pwp (Sep 16, 2013)

9VIII said:


> Realistically I want DPAF...


DPAF? Sorry, that one has got me. I came up with:
Dual Payload Attachment Fitting & Division of Planning, Analysis, and Finance



AvTvM said:


> Knowing Canon for many years now ... if they announce anything soon, it will be disappointing anyway.


Awww, lighten up! What an outlook on life! 

-pw


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## trav.cunningham (Sep 16, 2013)

pwp said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Realistically I want DPAF...
> ...



Dual Pixel AF like in the 70D


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## David Hull (Sep 17, 2013)

I think they should give one away with each purchase of that lens


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## RGomezPhotos (Sep 17, 2013)

I wish it were the high-end version. But I doubt it :-[


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## pwp (Sep 17, 2013)

trav.cunningham said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...


Duh...OK. I _knew_ that! ???
I've just added DPAF to to user editable http://www.abbreviations.com

-pw


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## wickidwombat (Sep 17, 2013)

i wonder if it does eventuate if we will see a dumping of current M stock cheap
if so I'll probably grab another from B&H and have it sent directly for IR conversion
as it will probably be cheaper than shipping one of my 5D2 off to be done and be more 
compact for carrying around


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## gmrza (Sep 17, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> i wonder if it does eventuate if we will see a dumping of current M stock cheap
> if so I'll probably grab another from B&H and have it sent directly for IR conversion
> as it will probably be cheaper than shipping one of my 5D2 off to be done and be more
> compact for carrying around



+1 on that. For IR, you generally shoot at low ISO, and don't have high demands on the AF system. I doubt you should see any perceptible difference between the IQ of the 18MP sensor and 20MP DPAF sensor for IR use.

BTW: who are you using for IR conversion? I have previously used Camera Clinic in Collingwood to convert an old Powershot G5.


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## Eric D (Sep 17, 2013)

infared said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > More pancakes please
> ...



I'd like to point out that there IS is a pancake in that photo. It's attached to the lens.

enjoy,


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## jebrady03 (Sep 17, 2013)

gmrza said:


> BTW: who are you using for IR conversion? I have previously used Camera Clinic in Collingwood to convert an old Powershot G5.



I have not yet converted my M as I'm waiting to have the successor in my hands first but I have saved two links to companies that do it and have had customers posting that they're very happy with the conversion. Here are those links...

http://www.lifepixel.com/

http://www.kolarivision.com/

Hope that helps!


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2013)

If the m2 has the 70d's af sensor and touchscreen, this will make a serious contender to the 70d because many usability shortcomings/crippling will be fixed by Magic Lantern - so if you just need a small camera for video next to a full fledged ff eos this m2 will surely have a lot of customers. 

Canon seems to have a great product here - could we now please have more enthusiast releases like the long awaited L updates, not just low end (m2, stm, ...) or high end (200-400L, ...)  ?


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## axtstern (Sep 17, 2013)

> If the m2 has the 70d's af sensor and touchscreen, this will make a serious contender to the 70d because many usability shortcomings/crippling will be fixed by Magic Lantern - so if you just need a small camera for video next to a full fledged ff eos this m2 will surely have a lot of customers.



Magic Lantern has some issues with the M. I kicked the BETA from my M as the M simply does not have enough buttons to work with some convinience with the ML extensions. The overlapping menus did their part as well in convincing me to pass on this one.

However I second your desire for enthusiast products. To much these days for Cine, Deep pockets and Noobs, nothing which makes the fanboys in the middle sustainable happy.


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## EchoLocation (Sep 17, 2013)

dear canon,
please give us better AF, a built in flash, and a decent viewfinder. if so, i will seriously consider buying it once the price drops from 800 dollars ish. if possible(not holding my breath), please throw in better high ISO and maybe another dial or two so i don't have to use the touchscreen so much.
sincerely,
someone hoping for a full frame Canon mirrorless, but content enough with the M for now.


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## mountain_drew (Sep 17, 2013)

EchoLocation said:


> dear canon,
> please give us better AF, a built in flash, and a decent viewfinder. if so, i will seriously consider buying it once the price drops from 800 dollars ish. if possible(not holding my breath), please throw in better high ISO and maybe another dial or two so i don't have to use the touchscreen so much.
> sincerely,
> someone hoping for a full frame Canon mirrorless, but content enough with the M for now.


I don't understand why people ask stuff that would be impossible to fit in such a small body. Do you guys want a mirrorless DSLR-like body?


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## schmidtfilme (Sep 17, 2013)

dadgummit said:


> Sounds promising. If it has:
> 1. the 70D's sensor with dual pixel af
> 2. an electronic view finder
> 3. size similar to the original M (With an EVF it will have to be larger)
> ...



If that happens I get one if the price is right.


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## dadgummit (Sep 17, 2013)

Daniel Flather said:


> dadgummit said:
> 
> 
> > I think most people will be happy.
> ...



LOL, I meant most people in the General population. Not most people on this forum!!


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## AvTvM (Sep 17, 2013)

mountain_drew said:


> I don't understand why people ask stuff that would be impossible to fit in such a small body. Do you guys want a mirrorless DSLR-like body?



no, we want solid and robust mirrorless system cameras with better IQ and photographic performance than any DSLR at a fraction of the bulk and weight. Good thing is, there is no law of nature against it. Only the unwillingness of imaging gear suppliers to build it, as long as they can sell yesterday's crap like the EOS-M or various DSLRs. 

To be miore specific: what exactly would not fit into a very compact mirrorless system camera body?

* really fast and precise Hybrid AF [contrast AF plus phase-detect Af on sensor]? -> no difference in body size/weight 
* vastly improved sensor with much better IQ ... resolution, DR, low-ISO, hi-ISO noise? -> no difference in size/weight
* ultra hi resolution "retina" EVF with minimum 4k rresoultion? -> no difference in size/weight
* one front-whell, one rear-whell and 5 freely assignable, well-placed buttons? -> no difference in size/weight 
* higher fps? focus peaking? 1001 useful firmware features -> no difference in size/weight
* magnesium-alloy body, fully dust- and weathersealed [IP 67] ? -> no difference in size, little in weight
* WiFi, GPS, Canon-EX-RT radio flash master built in? -> very little impact on size/weight 
* built-in little fil-flash -> little impact on size/weight 
* fully articulated "retina" 4k LCD screen? -> very little impact on size [about 1mm in width], little in weight
* battery good for min. 500 shots and decent handgrip? -> little impact on size, if properly done

* full frame 35mm sensor? -> some impact on size, but not a lot, if properly done (see Sony RX-1)

Even with all of these items built into a full-frame mirrorless cam, it could still be significantly smaller and also lighter than any DSLR.


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## Fatalv (Sep 17, 2013)

dppaskewitz said:


> Does anyone else want to be able to connect a remote shutter trigger? Wired would be fine. Or did I just miss the slot on my current model M?



+1 I'd love to be able to attach some M's to my dual telescope rig on my EQ mount. Losing the weight of the DSLR would be a huge benefit and still allow me to have a usable camera for day to day operations.


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## brad-man (Sep 17, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> mountain_drew said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why people ask stuff that would be impossible to fit in such a small body. Do you guys want a mirrorless DSLR-like body?
> ...



_Welcome all, to Fantasy Island!_


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## hoodlum (Sep 17, 2013)

It'll be interesting to see if the new body comes to the US after what happened with the 11-22mm.

Nikon also seems to be pulling back from the US market with the 32mm only available through grey market now.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/09/17/nikon-32-1-2-1-series-lens-now-special-order-only/


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## josephandrews222 (Sep 17, 2013)

...a previous poster listed one really important add-on for the new M: a tiny flash suitable for fill-flash. This is essential, I think.


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## jebrady03 (Sep 18, 2013)

josephandrews222 said:


> ...a previous poster listed one really important add-on for the new M: a tiny flash suitable for fill-flash. This is essential, I think.



Agreed. But then you'll see mass online grumblings that the flash isn't strong enough! In fact, some of the grumblings may be outright rage with empty threats to switch to Nikon!


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## LeifHurst (Sep 18, 2013)

My only request... catch up with Fuji.


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## mountain_drew (Sep 18, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> mountain_drew said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why people ask stuff that would be impossible to fit in such a small body. Do you guys want a mirrorless DSLR-like body?
> ...


I don't think you'll get all of this. I think a great recipe would be to copy the SONY NEX-3N and the NEX-6 for the low-cost and high-cost version, with the 70D sensor, better LCD. That would mean fill flash and tilting screen on the cheap one, EVF and more buttons/wheels on the more expansive one. Perhaps the tilting screen is not possible if you want weather sealing, so that might mean picking one or the other. The WIFI might come with both because it might affect how consumers perceive the camera. I don't think Canon will invest in focus peaking, but we have it with magic lantern so it's fine to me, but that'd be nice to have it from the start.

If Canon just matches Sony's offering with the addition of the 70D sensor, they might have a good chance of competing against it and I'd probably be sold to the most expansive one. I know that if they match the NEX-6, I might just buy it, even though I had no intention of buying a mirrorless body 6 months ago, even less a second one!


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## AvTvM (Sep 18, 2013)

mountain_drew said:


> If Canon just matches Sony's offering with the addition of the 70D sensor, they might have a good chance of competing against it and I'd probably be sold to the most expansive one. I know that if they match the NEX-6, I might just buy it, even though I had no intention of buying a mirrorless body 6 months ago, even less a second one!



Looking forward to Sony - hopefully! - announcing their rumored full-frame mirrorless system camera/s soon. 

I just might get what I want ... a 
* FF-sensored
* fully-featured 
* highly capable 
AND 
* very compact 
mirrorless system camera. Along with a couple of good and compact AF-lenses ["Zeiss" branded and hopefully also designed by them]. 

If true ... it'll be a good lesson for Canon and bad news for their underwhelming EOS-M line.


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## sylvestrerato (Sep 18, 2013)

I'll buy when it's full framed.


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## hoodlum (Sep 18, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> mountain_drew said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon just matches Sony's offering with the addition of the 70D sensor, they might have a good chance of competing against it and I'd probably be sold to the most expansive one. I know that if they match the NEX-6, I might just buy it, even though I had no intention of buying a mirrorless body 6 months ago, even less a second one!
> ...



Are you prepared to pay $3k for the body ?


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## Dylan777 (Sep 18, 2013)

hoodlum said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > mountain_drew said:
> ...



I'm with AvTvM.

Keep the body size to RX1 or near to RX1, I'm more than happy to spend $3k on body. I spent $2800 on RX1 fixed lens and yes....it's the best little camera on the planet.


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## fxk (Sep 18, 2013)

sylvestrerato said:


> I'll buy when it's full framed.


Scratch one potential customer


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## AvTvM (Sep 18, 2013)

hoodlum said:


> Are you prepared to pay $3k for the body ?



If it has what i want and delivers IQ at least on par with nikon d800 .. Yes i will. 
I would prefer if it had a canon user interface and an. Adapter for my canon lenses ...


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## fxk (Sep 19, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> hoodlum said:
> 
> 
> > *Are you prepared to pay $3k for the body ?*
> ...



_*Really?*_  A $3K EOS-M? Pshaw.


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## AvTvM (Sep 19, 2013)

fxk said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > hoodlum said:
> ...



yep. I would consider 3k USD/€ fair value for a very compact, FF-sensored EOS-M with better sensor, better IQ, better AF, more features (e.g. WiFi, GPS, EX-RT-controller, fully articulated LCD], 4k "retina" EVF and better ergonomics - compared to D800 and 5D III.


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## fxk (Sep 19, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> fxk said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...


They *might* just sell one. The rest of us will settle for a bit less and save a dime or two. :-\


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## AvTvM (Sep 20, 2013)

fxk said:


> They *might* just sell one. The rest of us will settle for a bit less and save a dime or two. :-\



don't think so. Sony was apparently able to sell some RX-1 cameras @ 3k ... and the RX-1 is a far cry from the hi-end mirrorless system camera described above, which I would love to buy from Canon. 

Of course one can spend less money - like USD 299,- - and settle for even less ... e.g. the current Canon EOS-M. 

Yes, the current EOS-M may be a very good choice for many. But for me it is simply no option, irrespective of its (deservedly low) price. The older I get, the more I try to avoid spending money and time on gear which evidently is inadequate or unsuitable for what and how I want to work. One of my knock-out criteria for a camera is a "look-through" viewfinder. I only ever take pictures squinting at an LCD on a device I have to hold with stretched out hands if I have absolutely no other choice in view of a really appealing photo opportunity.  

Therefore, neither the current EOS-M or an ever so slightly improved EOS-M II [e.g. 70D sensor w/ dual-pixel-AF] without an excellent viewfinder are of any interest to me. I will eventually replace my bulky APS-C DSLR plus lenses with a smaller, lighter AND more capable mirrorless camera system with 35mm "FF" sensor. But only once I can do so without any sacrifices ... except the change-over from a reasonably good, but not top-notch optical viewfinder [7D] to a truly excellent electronic (or hybrid) viewfinder. 

This is my highly subjective view on the "state of mirrorless affairs" ... and I know, I'm not the only one.


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## Random Orbits (Sep 20, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> yep. I would consider 3k USD/€ fair value for a very compact, FF-sensored EOS-M with better sensor, better IQ, better AF, more features (e.g. WiFi, GPS, EX-RT-controller, fully articulated LCD], 4k "retina" EVF and better ergonomics - compared to D800 and 5D III.



Let's see... More features than a D800 and a 5D III and costs less than a 5D III. Sure, I'd like that too.


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## fxk (Sep 20, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> fxk said:
> 
> 
> > They *might* just sell one. The rest of us will settle for a bit less and save a dime or two. :-\
> ...


On a decent (or superior) (E)VF, we can agree. Arm's length is neither natural nor condusive to good good, fast, steady, sharp photography. :
As far as a sensor, APC-C is wholly adequate (for me). With the various rectilinear ultra-wides available, FF is not nearly the issue it was for me. Assuming the current M lenses DO have an image circle to cover FF (which l'll bet they do not), I would not cough up a $1K premium for a FF sensor, though some premium for the larger sensor (yes, very, very desirable) would be considered, now that I'm invested. Of course, if the image circle only covers APS-C, then the FF point is moot.
At the current $300 price point, the M was an obvious choice for my M/C travel camera - space is at a premium. At the original price, the current camera was not even on the radar.

My take is the M photographing experience is less than satisfying - quite frustrating in many respects, but it does produce some nice images, due to decent optics and a good sensor. Far better fro me than a P&S. 

I can say after a very short time of using the current M, the screen only view operation is wholly inadequate, and the always-active touch-screen is a real PITA, especially on such a small body. Like the dial lock on the DSLRs, there needs to be a screen-lock. They need to make use of the existing buttons and dials better (make them able to access more functions).

One addition I purchased and makes the body so much more stable is a Fotodiox Pro Thumb Grip http://fotodioxpro.com/index.php/fotodiox-pro-thumb-grip-for-mirrorless-digital-cameras-type-b-black.html. The accessory adds greatly to the stability of the camera, but unfortunately eats up the hot shoe, and makes the ON switch nearly inaccessible. 

On my wish list would be the means (a second shoe? add grip to the body? (and PLEASE don't cover it in plastic!!)) to use this type of grip with an EVF AND flash. 

And ask to keep it ~$1K... (we all can wish...)

In the meantime, I'll make lemonade.


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