# What?? A SCAM INVOLVING A CANON T3i??



## documentaryman (Jul 23, 2011)

This past week I was enjoying a leisurely vacation in cool pines of Northern Arizona with my wife and the brood.

As I usually do on such trips, I check in with the local Craigslist and take a quick look at the photo/video section to see what's up (or '"sup" as the kids say).

So I did my normal due diligence and low and behold, much to my surprise, a new-in-the-box-never-been-used Canon T3i was for sale at a little over $400. The seller listed the camera in the 3 different ads on 3 different days in the same photo/video category (which, btw, is a Craigslist "no-no"):

http://bit.ly/nTQ0a0

But I overlooked this transgression and since I cannot could not pass up a great deal, I replied to each of the 3 blind craigslist email addresses (each ad generates a unique address) and asked to meet them to see it (there was no phone number listed).

In fact, I sent messages for 3 consecutive days and got no answer, so I assumed the camera was no longer available and the seller was too lazy/clueless to delete the listings.

Then several days later (to make a long story even longer), I received 3 emails (each originating from the 3 addresses) from three different people -- but each email said the same thing:

"Hey, Sorry for replying so late..i just met someone up and sold it
If your still trying to find one at a discount, i found mine at "This Site". 
They still have the 4th of july promo for 10 free bids and i just signed up and won. 
Trick i found was to bid only when counter hits 4 seconds.
hope i was able to help
regards"

"This Site" was a link to an online auction site. All three emails were identical, but with different sender names.

Gee whiliakers... a scam to direct me to an auction site ... Whoda-thunk?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 24, 2011)

This is very common, and there is a wave of them going around. Its suprising how many fall for the too good to be true prices they advertise. I don't even bother when I see ads like that, and they appear almost every day around here.


I think that the perps are being paid by the number of hits or referals to a auction site or store.

I used to find some great deals on photo equipment locally, but those have mostly gone away, but not totally.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 24, 2011)

documentaryman said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > This is very common, and there is a wave of them going around. Its suprising how many fall for the too good to be true prices they advertise. I don't even bother when I see ads like that, and they appear almost every day around here.
> ...



The FBI busted one locally earlier this year, they were inserting fake bids to keep the $$ coming in. I keep far away from them, but there are those who actually think you can get something for nothing, and speend thousands to prove it.


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## dr croubie (Jul 24, 2011)

I've never had any dealing with craigslist, being an aussie, but i've seen a few on ebay (which does pride itself on having cleaned up a lot of scams compared to when it started).

i saw an EF 14/2.8 going for cheap, starting at $1 auction, and put it on my watchlist. I would have bid on it, but the seller was in Thailand, with a 0 feedback rating (auction was in aussie dollars, and listed on ebay.com.au). It finished around $1400 (c.f. B&H new price $2300), and I kept it in my watch list. Whoever the buyer was, they never left positive feedback to the seller, not sure if they received it or not. Either way, after a few months, the seller was listed as 'no longer a registered user'. I know ebay say you're protected, but generally only $400, and with fees and whatnot you never get back the full amount.

Same thing recently, a Zeiss T* 35/2 went for $757, to a seller from china with 0 rating. I was planning to watch the item again for a few months to see if it had a happy ending, but it seems not already, the seller is -1 feedback with the comment "This seller sold the item through another netshop the day after I won the bid". So at the least it looks like this buyer didn't lose any money.
It's a bit similar to the craglist scam though, could have easily turned into a "but i've got another lens i can sell you...".

long story short, always check feedback from sellers, especially if you're handing over a lot of cash (only pay $1-2 max for every positive feedback they've got is my rule).
and if it's too good to be true, it normally is...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 24, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> I've never had any dealing with craigslist, being an aussie, but i've seen a few on ebay (which does pride itself on having cleaned up a lot of scams compared to when it started).



I use Craigslist here locally in the usa, its great to buy and sell personal items, but not so good for photography or other high end items that scammers favor. I've sold a lot of photography equipment on craigslist over the years, but in the last 6 mo to a year, ebay has been far better.

and Yes, ebay has a lot fewer scammers buying and selling. I sell omn ebay a lot, but I buy elsewhere.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2011)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I use Craigslist here locally in the usa, its great to buy and sell personal items, but not so good for photography or other high end items that scammers favor. I've sold a lot of photography equipment on craigslist over the years, but in the last 6 mo to a year, ebay has been far better.



I've had reasonable luck with Craigslist over the past two years. I've found some stellar deals on L lenses - my personal policy is that I won't buy a lens for more than 70% of current retail cost, which allows me the flexibility to re-sell if I decide I don't want to keep the lens. Last year, I picked up a 200mm f/2.8L II for $475, and then a 300mm f/4L IS for $750 (both of which I subesquently resold for a profit), and I am currently considering a 24-70mm f/2.8L for $1000.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 25, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I use Craigslist here locally in the usa, its great to buy and sell personal items, but not so good for photography or other high end items that scammers favor. I've sold a lot of photography equipment on craigslist over the years, but in the last 6 mo to a year, ebay has been far better.
> ...



Yes, I will not pay more than 70% of retail.

I did pick up a pair of lenses that duplicated ones I already owned, a 35mm L and a135mm L as a package deal for $1600 this spring, a few days after the Japan earthquake. Six or eight weeks later, I sold them on ebay separately for a lot more, about $2350. Those types of deals used to be common, but are pretty scarce now. I did also find a nice used 28mm f/2.8 for $20. It was a excellent performing lens, but gone now for 10X the price. You have to be very quick and with cash to get a deal. 

I also bought a extensive Hasselblad system off craigslist for $1700 this spring, all with original boxes, three Zeiss (2)distagon T* and one Zeiss Sonnar T* lenses, and almost every accessory Hasselblad offered, all like new.

I bought a Hasselblad to Canon adapter and tried the lenses on my 5D MK II and 1D MK III, but, in spite of the wonderful smooth focusing, I could not focus accurately enough to get really sharp photos, so I've pretty much sold it all, I was sad to see it go, but it paid for my refurb 7D with 15-85mm lens and change to buy a 17-55mm if I want. Those old Zeiss Distagon lenses are sharp on a Medium format body, but not up to modern DSLR lenses.


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## PXL_Pusher (Jul 25, 2011)

_You gotta' love those scams_... (can you see the sarcasm in my font choice??)

I was recently selling my 50D on amazon marketplace. This was my first time selling something on there, so I had no previous experiences with this other than purchasing directly from amazon which has always been a great experience. I listed my camera, and within 24hrs of being on there, I had someone send me a question about the condition through the amazon site, and a request to reply directly to their personal email as it would be faster for them to respond. So I answered the question and also added that I did not plan on doing any transaction outside of amazon itself. Their response was that they were going to purchase the product through amazon, and to please ship ASAP as it was for a present.

An hour or so later I receive an email from "[email protected]". The email was identical to the emails amazon sends me, from the HTML headers to the "A-Z Guarantee" logos. It stated my information, the amount of money that was "paid" to my account (the exact amount it was listed for) and the address to ship it to. When I saw that part, I noticed it was asking me to send to Nigeria. That was my big red flag, considering I had not made my camera available for international orders. I quickly logged into amazon to find my item still for sale. 

Now you might ask yourself, why don't you just check your bank account for the funds paid?? Well, amazon collects the money from the purchaser and it is held in your account until you request a disbursement which takes a few days as it is. I later also realized the emails that come from amazon are to end with @amazon.com no matter what department is sending the message. It might sound like common sense, but you would be surprised at how smooth this scam was. Very high tech, very elaborate. 


Long story short, I ended up leaving the listing on there and it sold a week later, with no issues. I received the emails from amazon notifying me of the sale, I logged in and double checked the sale and funds and all was clear. It was shipped to NJ, and I avoided shipping a free camera to some low life in Nigeria. Also they were reported to amazon, so hopefully there aren't too many of those scams floating around.

Hope my close call can help someone avoid the same scam.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 25, 2011)

You have to be on your toes in the electronic market place. 

I'm glad to hear you did not fall for it.

I suscribe to a online scam forum for credit cards, they publish drop shipment addresses, and one day, one showed up in a small town just up the road. The person involved had been suckered into reshipping packages, and was going to take all the heat.

I called the county Sheriffs office, (a large well over 1 million population county), and their "one" guy that understands internet stuff was on vacation, and no one else had any idea of the scam. It is pretty sad as to how slow law enforcement has been.

The sheriffs department could have helped him from getting in deeper if they had reacted quickly. Its much preferrable to help someone who was tricked into a drop ship scam than to arrest him later.


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## KyleSTL (Jul 25, 2011)

I've tried to jump on deals on eBay recently, but haven't landed any because of conservative bidding. A pawn shop in Florida listed a XSi, and I recognized a TS-E 24mm I (and a couple others) also in the pictures. I wasn't the only one to notice it, because it ended up going for $1800. Easily $2000-2200 in used equipment, I think it was around $4000 MSRP, but the age of the XSi, and the release of the 24mm II definitely have brought the used prices down.

Also saw a nearly NIB 60D (and kit lens) listed as a D60, I bid with 2 seconds left, and the winner got it for $405. Wish I would have put it in 20 seconds earlier and had time to react, even at $800 it would have been a steal.


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## awinphoto (Jul 25, 2011)

I've had reasonable success with ebay and craigslist but you have to be educated in your purchases and use common sense. In the early days of ebay universities did studies on how people would OVERBID because of the "heat of the moment" bidding and the "i got to have this" rather than thinking of how much it really is worth and your limits on what your willing to spend. With ebay you can see ratings and get a better idea how reputable a seller is whereas craigslist is more anonymous so extra precaution needs to be taken such as seeing the item before handing over money. There are great deals out there but you need to do your homework first.


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## Edwin Herdman (Jul 27, 2011)

CNN Money:
"Internet scam artists are more effective than you think" / "Low-tech Internet scams harvest billions of dollars"

(It makes me laugh when CNN Money speaks of fake antivirus popups as a "relatively new scheme" but the history of scams is very old indeed...I'm reminded of the story about P.T. Barnum's infamous "Egress" exhibit.)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 27, 2011)

"You can't cheat an honest man; never give a sucker an even break, or smarten up a chump." - "Larsen E. Whipsnade"


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## branden (Jul 28, 2011)

I've managed to avoid issues with eBay both on selling and buying. But then, my eBay account has been about for about 10 years and has 100% feedback, and I only bid on auctions from people with similar histories. I've never gotten an earth-shatteringly great deal, but the prices usually end up just about fair. 

I list my items all starting at $1 and going for 5 days, with many photos and a full, detailed text description. I've never been disappointed by an auction's final price.

You guys talk highly of Craigslist deals (so long as scams are avoided), so I may have to start checking that out too.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 28, 2011)

branden said:


> You guys talk highly of Craigslist deals (so long as scams are avoided), so I may have to start checking that out too.



It does depend on the area you live in. There are some areas i'd not use it to buy or sell, but I am in a rather old fashioned town, so we mostly get the Nigerian scammers wanting to buy or sell, and they are easy to spot. As long as you meet someone at their bank, your bank, or another safe place, the risks are pretty low.

Don't let anyone come to your house, for example, when you are selling expensive gear. You may be robbed then or later they might come back with a truck while you are gone.


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## Redreflex (Jul 31, 2011)

documentaryman said:


> As I usually do on such trips, I check in with the local Craigslist and take a quick look at the photo/video section to see what's up (or '"sup" as the kids say).
> 
> ....
> 
> ...



Sounds familiar! Here's the result of my email enquiry to a recent Craiglist Detroit T3i listing for $450:

"hey, 
Sorry for replying so late..someone stopped by yesterday and picked it up

If your still looking for one at a sick discount, i bought mine at THIS SITE 

They still have the summer promo for 10 free bids and i just signed up and won two, which is why I was selling one. Since school's been out very few people are bidding.

Trick to winning everytime is to bid only when counter hits 4 seconds.
Seriously if I can do it anyone can
regards,
Mary Keller"

Lesson for me: if it sounds almost too good to be true, then it is!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 31, 2011)

And Yet, yesterday, I answered a Craigslist ad for a Canon 35-350mm L for $500. It turned out to be a local photographer I have bought from before. The lenses often sell for $1000 or more, but he saw dust in the lens, it had some minor paint dings, and he did not want to try to sell it on ebay.

Actually, the dust was on the outside of the rear element and cleaned off nicely. The lens is well used and has some tiny tick marks on the paint, but the glass is perfect.

So, you may have to kiss a lot of frogs, but there are some good deals as well.


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## Redreflex (Jul 31, 2011)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> And Yet, yesterday, I answered a Craigslist ad for a Canon 35-350mm L for $500. It turned out to be a local photographer I have bought from before. The lenses often sell for $1000 or more, but he saw dust in the lens, it had some minor paint dings, and he did not want to try to sell it on ebay.
> 
> Actually, the dust was on the outside of the rear element and cleaned off nicely. The lens is well used and has some tiny tick marks on the paint, but the glass is perfect.
> 
> So, you may have to kiss a lot of frogs, but there are some good deals as well.



I agree. And I have had a similar experience to you on Craigslist - just this week, I purchased a very good condition 2nd hand L lens for 35% less than the current retail price. In my limited experience, I think most 2nd hand L lenses tend to sell for within 10% of the retail price.

Which is why I responded to that "too good to be true" Craigslist T3i ad, hoping that it would be yet another steal, which've been perfect for the father-in-law. Alas, it was not to be!


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