# 40mm f2.8 STM or new 50mm f1.8 STM?



## moushu (May 28, 2015)

Hi all,
daughter is relatively new to photography (in fact is just finishing A-level photography) & is really into studio portraiture and has a 7D body.
I'm thinking of rewarding the end of her studies by introducing her to the world of primes.
As 50mm on a crop pretty much matches the age-old advice of 85mm on full-frame being The Studio Lens, my thinking was going that way, especially with the release of the new 1.8 STM, but I've read a few reviews now saying that the 40mm may be a better lens.
Don't suppose anyone on here has compared the two have they?
Or have any observations on using the 40mm for studio portraiture?
Cheers


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## ajfotofilmagem (May 28, 2015)

I still wait for tests controlled the-digital-picture to know for sure. But looking at the samples of 50mm STM so far, it seems to have lower sharpness (in the image corners) when used in F1.8.

But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.

I also think the focal length 50mm best suited for portraits.


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## TheLaxPlayer (May 28, 2015)

What lenses does she currently have?


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## mrzero (May 28, 2015)

The 50mm 1.8 II is a great beginner portrait prime on crop, so I think I would vote for the new 50mm STM. Plus, I think that focal length would pair nicely with the EF-S 24mm 2.8 pancake (gift #2).


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## slclick (May 28, 2015)

Having both, I don't see a reason to sell one or the other. Completely different lenses. That 10mm is quite a wide difference at that focal length spectrum and the pancake is a much better piece of glass when you account for color, contrast and overall IQ. Now, for non distortion portraiture and low light, sure the 50 wins out.


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## NancyP (May 28, 2015)

Go for any version of the Plastic Fantastic / Nifty Fifty. Better focal length for traditional portraiture on an APS-C camera . And yes, gift #2 for an APS-C shooter just learning to use primes could be the whatever-the-h*- rhymes-with-24 24mm f/2.8 STM. Personally I learned on a 55mm f/1.4 on a full frame 135 format film camera in the days before zooms, when the kit lens was a 50-55mm lens at f/1.4 to f/2.0.


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## Orangutan (May 29, 2015)

NancyP said:


> whatever-the-h*- rhymes-with-24


J'adore? Or must it be English?


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## centuaryseries (May 29, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > whatever-the-h*- rhymes-with-24
> ...



Spilled my coffee! ;D ;D ;D


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## FTb-n (May 29, 2015)

mrzero said:


> The 50mm 1.8 II is a great beginner portrait prime on crop, so I think I would vote for the new 50mm STM. Plus, I think that focal length would pair nicely with the EF-S 24mm 2.8 pancake (gift #2).


+1 on both counts.

The 1.8 will also offer tighter DOF to make the portraits pop more.


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## Maximilian (May 29, 2015)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I still wait for tests controlled the-digital-picture to know for sure. But looking at the samples of 50mm STM so far, it seems to have lower sharpness (in the image corners) when used in F1.8.
> 
> But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.
> 
> I also think the focal length 50mm best suited for portraits.


+1 to all of that, although I don't know the 50 STM yet.

I've been on vacation lately with the small setup of 100D/SL1+40+24 STM pancakes. The 40 STM misses a little bit of reach for really good portrait. But for travel it is a great IQ per weight performer. And the possibility of having f1.8 would be THE reason for me getting the 50 STM for portrait. Of course you cannot expect a Sigma Art or Canon L sharpness performance at that price level. 
But it will give your daughter the chance to play with and feel the effects of real thin DOF. 
And I am sure that it will be noticeablely better than the nifty fifty, in built and IQ.

The mentioned possibility of adding up the prime setup later with a 24 STM is a really good one. 
I just bought it and I am very pleased with its price performance.


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## mb66energy (May 29, 2015)

I would like to throw in another alternative: 
The EF-S 60mm macro lens, perhaps 2nd hand.

Contra:
* limited to APS-C
* only f/2.8
* USM not as good as STM for video
* price

Pro:
* Distance scale + real manual focus option
* Brilliant IQ straight from f/2.8
* 1:1 capability - allows for close ups (portraiture) without limits
* compact, no extending parts
* Very fast AF
* focal length should be (very) good for portraiture
* price performance ratio

It was my first lens with the 20D 10 years ago. And if I had to choose one lens
to travel with, it would be THE option for ME - with full frame it would be a 
5D + 100 Macro.


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## moushu (May 29, 2015)

TheLaxPlayer said:


> What lenses does she currently have?



Whichever of mine she "borrows"!
Strictly speaking she still only owns a standard kit 18-55, and is using that for portraits, so I'm really hoping she'll be able to see improvements over that from a prime.

But she borrows my 10-22, 70-300L, and I particularly have to lock away the 18-135 STM 
She's not taken with the only prime I have, a Sigma 70mm macro, but that's a bit long on a crop for portraits.


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## KateH (May 29, 2015)

For portraiture on a 7D, 50mm all the way. Faster and has a more useful FOV. The 40mm is a great lens on full-frame (I love it on my 5D), but a very awkward focal length on APS-C type cameras. My recommendation would be for her to get a 50mm 1.8 and a 24mm 2.8- that's a wonderful 2-lens kit for that camera!


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## bholliman (May 29, 2015)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.
> 
> I also think the focal length 50mm best suited for portraits.



+1 Not only is 50mm a better portrait focal length on a crop body, but having the ability to shoot at wider apertures (even if not razor sharp) opens up greater creative possibilities.


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## Zv (May 29, 2015)

I had the same thought and came to the conclusion that the new 50 STM is a better option (for me) as it is longer and opens up to f/1.8 (even if I don't use it wide open it should be OK at f/2 ish). That's a good amount to bokeh for not much money. On crop it would be a lovely little portrait lens. 

I had a play around with the 50 STM in a store. Handling wise it feels nice as you can grip it better than the 40. That would prove useful when composing portraits. It still retains an element of discreetness and not far off the ultra slim 40 in size. The focus is smooth and accurate. No more noisy motor. The AF speed though is about the same as the old one but it's more decisive. 

Overall I reckon it's a really good first prime. 

Edit - coupled with the 24mm STM pancake it would be a sweet two lens combo on crop. The 24 is basically the 40 in crop flavor.


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## moushu (May 29, 2015)

bholliman said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.
> ...



Thanks all, it looks like most are coming down in favour of the 50 on a crop.
Now all I need to need is convince her highness that a prime isn't a limiting factor, as really she's angling for a 18-135 of her own..
However, another fly in the chardonnay is that already in her relatively brief dalliance she's already shot 3 weddings, admittedly small-scale affairs, and has enjoyed it (& been successful), so I know she has her mind on the flexibility of a zoom for future events (to help finance the next 3 years at Uni), so I suspect she'll not be seeing the usefulness of a prime in that circumstance.
Interesting conversations ahead..

Also, I'm not made of money, so she's only getting one lens, as I have my own photography habit to finance


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## Maximilian (May 29, 2015)

Here are the lens image quality results for the 50 STM:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=105&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=1&LensComp=989&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

Impressive improvement in the center compared to the old 50/1.8 II. If this is not a good new against bad old sample comparison I must say I am very surprised to see so much difference. If this is "standard" I'd say "well done, Canon!".


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## Maximilian (May 29, 2015)

And here a comparison to the 40 STM:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=810&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=989&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2

At f2.8 the 50 STM is looking even better in the center with just a little drop to the corners. 

moushu, IMHO now it is clear which one to choose. 

Tell us about your daughters reaction and maybe post some of her pictures here if she likes to.


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## mrzero (May 29, 2015)

moushu said:


> Thanks all, it looks like most are coming down in favour of the 50 on a crop.
> Now all I need to need is convince her highness that a prime isn't a limiting factor, as really she's angling for a 18-135 of her own..
> However, another fly in the chardonnay is that already in her relatively brief dalliance she's already shot 3 weddings, admittedly small-scale affairs, and has enjoyed it (& been successful), so I know she has her mind on the flexibility of a zoom for future events (to help finance the next 3 years at Uni), so I suspect she'll not be seeing the usefulness of a prime in that circumstance.
> Interesting conversations ahead..
> ...



I can't imagine the need for more than one 18-135 in any household. Give her the 50mm STM, teach her how to use AV mode with auto ISO (within reason), and tell her to shoot it between 1.8 and 2.8 for a while. She'll probably love it!


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## Maximilian (May 29, 2015)

moushu said:


> ...
> Now all I need to need is convince her highness that a prime isn't a limiting factor...


If she's really into photography and did already do some weddings I think she'll really fast realizes that a zoom is mor limiting than a wider aperture.  



> Also, I'm not made of money, so she's only getting one lens, as I have my own photography habit to finance


I think the second lens recommendation was for something sometime later on. not at the same time. 
And until then, there could be some money saved (maybe it'll be a shared lens, and a few more battles for lenses  )


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## Marsu42 (May 29, 2015)

moushu said:


> As 50mm on a crop pretty much matches the age-old advice of 85mm on full-frame being The Studio Lens



... for full/half body portraiture, for anything nearer 85mm is considered to have to much optical distortion and a longer focal length up to ~135mm is the way to go. Furthermore, I don't think such a (still) crappy lens as the 50 stm is a good pairing with a good crop camera body like the 7d as the af system isn't optimized for it and the lens' lack of sharpness will be magnified.

That's why I'd +1 the 60mm macro advice from above, a macro lens always is the most fun lens on the planet and you can dual-use it for portraiture just fine.


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## mb66energy (May 29, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> And here a comparison to the 40 STM:
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=810&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=989&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2
> 
> At f2.8 the 50 STM is looking even better in the center with just a little drop to the corners.
> ...



It might be a good idea to wait for the 60D test images before making the decision ... APS-C sensors discriminate between so so lenses and the really good ones! (5Ds(R) will do the same)


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## NancyP (May 30, 2015)

I think that the The-Digital-Picture comparison is of one copy of the old with one copy of the new Nifty Fifty. The optical design of the NF II and the NF STM is the same. It is possible that the manufacturing process could have been improved with the STM lens. But it is also possible that the difference is merely unit-to-unit variance.


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## ajfotofilmagem (May 30, 2015)

NancyP said:


> I think that the The-Digital-Picture comparison is of one copy of the old with one copy of the new Nifty Fifty. The optical design of the NF II and the NF STM is the same. It is possible that the manufacturing process could have been improved with the STM lens. But it is also possible that the difference is merely unit-to-unit variance.


I remember reading in LensRental.com to copy variation visibly affects the image corners. There had to be something seriously wrong with a lens copy, to realize (the naked eye) variations in the center.

I also remember reading another article in LensRental.com which states that lens coatings are "the most important part" of the optical design.

Some people do not want to believe that Canon has made improvements in sharpness, contrast and bokeh, changing "only" optical coatings and aperture blades, and maintaining the sales price unchanged ...


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## Sporgon (May 30, 2015)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > I think that the The-Digital-Picture comparison is of one copy of the old with one copy of the new Nifty Fifty. The optical design of the NF II and the NF STM is the same. It is possible that the manufacturing process could have been improved with the STM lens. But it is also possible that the difference is merely unit-to-unit variance.
> ...



Also Photozone's results support TDP between new and old, making 'copy variation' very unlikely. 

In their pre release press blurb Canon stated 'improved optical alignment' (or something like that) as well as improved coatings, and it looks like they weren't kidding. 

In answer to the OP, I'd suggest the 50 over the 40 in your case due to the fov and dof on crop.


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## SpuTTer (May 31, 2015)

Dustin Abbotts video review shows improved optics also. Very unlikely that there is this much 'copy variation'. It looks like it's sharper than the II wide open, or better contrast, etc.


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## SpuTTer (May 31, 2015)

Another review popped out which seems to support the improved sharpness (wide open). http://petapixel.com/2015/05/30/battle-of-the-nifty-fifties-canons-50mm-f1-8-lenses/


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## bholliman (May 31, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> And here a comparison to the 40 STM:
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=810&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=989&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2
> 
> At f2.8 the 50 STM is looking even better in the center with just a little drop to the corners.



I'm pleasantly surprised by the sharpness of the new 50 STM. Very sharp in the center at wide apertures, but sharp across the frame stepped down. In these comparisons with the 40 STM, the 50 is slightly sharper in the center at f/2.8, but when stepped down to f/5.6 and smaller, the 50 appears sharper across the frame. 

This might make a good small/light lens for hiking. Its sharpness stepped down would make it a good for panoramas. At f/8 and f/11 it actually compares well with the 24-70 f/2.8 II! Not bad for a $125 lens!

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=787&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=3&API=4&LensComp=989&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5

My 50 STM is on order, expected to arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to its arrival.


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## Hjalmarg1 (Jun 7, 2015)

moushu said:


> Thanks all, it looks like most are coming down in favour of the 50 on a crop.
> Now all I need to need is convince her highness that a prime isn't a limiting factor, as really she's angling for a 18-135 of her own..


Best selling factor for fast apperture lenses is the ability to gather bigger amount of light and this aspect is very important at weddings because some times flash isn't allowed at churches.
I owned the 40mm STM and now I own the new 50mm STM and the sharpness of both at f2.8 is quite similar with a slight edge to the 50mm STM but remember that you can still shot at f1.8 and have good center frame sharpness which is good in particular to portraits.


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## Hector1970 (Jun 10, 2015)

The 40mm is very sharp and a lovely tiny size.
I've always found 50mm on a crop very inflexible. Fine for portraits but almost nothing else.
The 40mm allows you do a little bit more.
On a full frame 40mm is neither here not there.
I like 50mm on full frames for some reason.
I don't use the 40mm much but I do rate it's sharpness highly.


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