# 5D2 vs 5D3 ISO100 around 50 test raws



## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

So I spent about 8 hours doing this last night
3 tests, all ISO 100

test 1 - the AF micro adjust method using the canon utility
test 2 - shooting a test chart off a tripod
test 3 - handholding a shot to confirm 

all tests using center point only
I also turned off the in camera lens correction stuff
anyway all the exif data is there

test 1 and 2 lit by 4 5500K constant lights & shoot through umbrellas
test 3 ambient tungsten light at night

lenses tested 
16-35 f2.8 II
50mm 1.4
Sigma 85mm 1.4
100 f2.8L IS Macro
70-200 f2.8L IS II
300 f4L (i had to bump iso on test 3 up to 800 for these being hand held)

I didnt test the 24-105 because my wife was out and had the lens but i will do it and add it in

during this i discovered to my horror that the kenko DGX teleplus 1.4 teleconverter does not work on the 5Dmk3
nice of canon to kill that for me  :'(

Overall I feel the images are sharper however I think the 5Dmk2 still beats the 5Dmk3
I have not done any detailed manual focusing tests yet and havent done any more AI servo tests using the 70-200 yet either... maybe tonight.

Anyway happy downloading and comparing.

https://rapidshare.com/files/2532280826/5D2-300_1.4-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/688365335/5D2-300_1.4-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/293818645/5D2-1635-35-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1900808145/5D2-1635-35-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3450698187/5D2-1635-35-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/998887751/5D2-1636-16-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/866433089/5D2-1636-16-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2583949155/5D2-1636-16-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1349004263/5D2-3004-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/531251974/5D2-3004-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3518966774/5D2-3004-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1402064248/5D2-5014-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2698699281/5D2-5014-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1539125355/5D2-5014-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1516336128/5D2-8514-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1265030667/5D2-8514-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3764730766/5D2-10028-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2542397230/5D2-10028-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2887136406/5D2-10028-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1684830024/5D2-70200-70-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2058375265/5D2-70200-70-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2108573414/5D2-70200-70-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2642938368/5D2-70200-200-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2365621055/5D2-70200-200-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3294846887/5D2-70200-200-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/4041552945/5D3-1635-35-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2756571199/5D3-1635-35-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/826883819/5D3-1635-35-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3823954061/5D3-1636-16-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/458182903/5D3-1636-16-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3094906950/5D3-1636-16-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/753049108/5D3-3004-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2390032328/5D3-3004-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2690616385/5D3-3004-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1194966321/5D3-5014-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/817624826/5D3-5014-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/1151533499/5D3-5014-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3404079805/5D3-8514-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/938434850/5D3-8514-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/2192175632/5D3-8514-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/4287441507/5D3-10028-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/31147334/5D3-10028-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3339273579/5D3-10028-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/4069088269/5D3-70200-70-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/383302158/5D3-70200-70-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/3045871511/5D3-70200-70-test3.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/193466436/5D3-70200-200-test1.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/865414958/5D3-70200-200-test2.CR2
https://rapidshare.com/files/4191357456/5D3-70200-200-test3.CR2


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

What no ones interested in this, come on its only a measly 1GB or so of raw files


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## sleepnever (Mar 28, 2012)

Provide a single .rar file ...nobody wants to hit RapidShare and wait X seconds for free users for each file.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

sleepnever said:


> Provide a single .rar file ...nobody wants to hit RapidShare and wait X seconds for free users for each file.



I did it that way in case people only wanted to get specific body lens combos and not download the whole gig
the filenames clearly show which body and which lens it is for

sheesh tough crowd, I'm not going to bother posting any more of my testing


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## 3kramd5 (Mar 28, 2012)

Thanks for posting. I couldn't view them all day (at work = no photoshop nor access to file sharing sites). I'm going to try to use a DL manager to hopefully grab them overnight.

Can you elaborate on "Overall I feel the images are sharper however I think the 5Dmk2 still beats the 5Dmk3"?

Meaning the 3 is sharper given equivalent glass (maybe due to the slight resolution increase), but the 2 is better elsewhere (DR, color, etc)?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 28, 2012)

Give us your summary of the results. Then we will download them go over them with a fine tooth comb, and nitpick them to death  

Thanks for all the work, and I know its a lot of work that I've been putting off. I've done just enough testing to satisfy myself that I can take very sharp and detailed images with my 5D MK III, and next, I need to adjust it for some of my too many lenses, and use it!!


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

Executive summary:

I dont know if its still the raw converter being funny but I still think the 5D2 images are sharper, there is definately no mind blowing improvement at ISO100 at very best it's going to be line ball. 
Before i started this test i did turn off all NR and the aberation reduction etc just incase any of that shinanigans affected the raws.

TEST 1 files are the best
TEST 2 shows this method of doing AFMA isnt the most accurate compared to test 1
TEST 3 just handheld shots as acheck most are at minimum shutter speed due to low light still I managed to keep it to iso 100 for all lenses except the 300f4L (they are a bit under exposed though)


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## te4o (Mar 28, 2012)

Wickid, thanks for your work! You are spending hours of honorable effort! I admit I can't download your RAW files as I still can't open them, no ACR, no DPP, Aperture only. But don't think we are not listening!


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/cameraraw6-7/

theres the link to the acr6.7

unless you mean you dont have CS5?


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## akclimber (Mar 28, 2012)

Yowza! Thanks for all your hard work! Very much appreciated. It's great you used a wide range of focal lengths. I'm looking forward to downloading some of the files and doing a side by side.

Cheers!


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## Arkarch (Mar 28, 2012)

Thank-you for the hard work.

I took a look at the 70-200 @ 70 Test 1 shots on a NEC PA241 wide gamut.

I notice that the white balance is different - the 5DmII at 4450 and the 5DmIII at 4600. 

Attached a couple crops from the same images, 5DmII on top, 5DmIII on bottom. 

Sharpness - They are very close, but I do see some artifact/pattern on the 5DmII side - especially in the "10" section. Its slightly there on the 5DmIII. Zoom up on the "9" and you'll see definite diagonal banding on the 5DmII. To be fair, it looks like the shots were not exactly the same size as the 5DmIII looks a bit wider (see the right side lineup).

Color - Also very close, but the very subtle shading - the stain above the "S" and the blue stripes, look fuller / slightly more saturated on the 5DmIII. The red blocks on the 5DmII look redder - could be the white balance.

Now this is just one sample crop. Interested in other analysis.

Please note, I used Adobe DNG Converter to clean process the 5DmIII CR2's. Its a clean convert I understand.


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## Arkarch (Mar 28, 2012)

Did the same crop on Test 1 of the 100 / 2.8 Again, 5DmII on top, 5DmIII on bottom.

Sharpness looks the same (the 5DmIII shot is slightly wider). 

Color - liking the color rendering on the 5DmIII. 

Note, White Balance 5DmII is 4350, 5DmIII is 4600.

Really really close at ISO 100.


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## marekjoz (Mar 28, 2012)

@Wicki - thanks for this work! It's good here to find such people sharing their time and effort. Great job!

From your overall impression I read it as you feel with 5d3 comparing to 5d2 like people with 7d comparing to 50d - very comparable image quality but improved usability like AF. Am I here right? Are you glad with your 5d3 or something dissapointed with image quality as far (comparing to 5d2)?


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## psolberg (Mar 28, 2012)

thanks, as I expected, little to no improvement at low ISOs. for us that prefer quality light to crappy low light, definitively not worth the extra price unless you really need the AF and speed.


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## smirkypants (Mar 28, 2012)

So the takeaway here seems to be... if you are going to be using the camera in-studio with controlled lighting and f-stops undemanding of autofocus abilities, you're not going to gain a lot for your extra $1400. That's completely fair.


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## D.Sim (Mar 28, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> sleepnever said:
> 
> 
> > Provide a single .rar file ...nobody wants to hit RapidShare and wait X seconds for free users for each file.
> ...



Ignore him, wombat... the rest of us appreciate it...

if you could take the time to provide raws for us, those of us who do want to take a look can take the time to download them


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## caMARYnon (Mar 28, 2012)

Thank you very very much wickidwombat, you gave us something to "eat" in this starvation


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## JR (Mar 28, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Executive summary:
> 
> I dont know if its still the raw converter being funny but I still think the 5D2 images are sharper, there is definately no mind blowing improvement at ISO100 at very best it's going to be line ball.
> Before i started this test i did turn off all NR and the aberation reduction etc just incase any of that shinanigans affected the raws.
> ...



Thanks Wicki! I wonder if the sharpness difference we are all seing between mkII and mkIII could be due to the RAW converter? Also, you mentionned you turned off the lens correction in camera, did you have a chance to see if the in camera lens correction impact the sharpness of the mkIII?

I am still puzzeled why the mkII had the edge on sharpness...


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## ereka (Mar 28, 2012)

smirkypants said:


> So the takeaway here seems to be... if you are going to be using the camera in-studio with controlled lighting and f-stops undemanding of autofocus abilities, you're not going to gain a lot for your extra $1400. That's completely fair.



There again, if you want an all round camera to suit a wide range of applications, it might well be worth the extra. For me, the general build quality and weather sealing alone would justify the additional cost. I've never owned a 5DMkII, but I've held one and the 5DMkIII just feels better in my hand, a feel much closer to my 1DMkII. Insofar as IQ is concerned, I'm comparing more to the 1DMkII, which is the camera I'm upgrading from ... and it's no less than a sea change! 5DMkII users upgrading to the 5DMkIII won't see much if any difference in sharpness, except perhaps at very high ISO speeds (as I think neuroanatomist pointed out in another thread). Pesonally, I'm really struggling to find fault with most if not all of the 5DMkIII sample images that have been posted so far. My monitor is a regularly calibrated Eizo ColorEdge CG245W, so I don't think it's lacking in any way. I really think, although it's entirely understandable, there's just too much "pixel peeping" going on* Has anyone produce any actual physical prints from the 5DMkIII yet? I suspect that will be a more telling test of IQ?

* not in any way intended to be a personal dig at wickidwombat (for the avoidance of doubt)


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## Renato (Mar 28, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> during this i discovered to my horror that the kenko DGX teleplus 1.4 teleconverter does not work on the 5Dmk3
> nice of canon to kill that for me  :'(



Just wondering if the Kenko teleplus pro 300 2x dgx" has received the same fate in case you have it.


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## Daniel Flather (Mar 28, 2012)

Hey Wombat, I'm at work and had to convert your 5d3 to DNG using the 6.7 release. Maybe it's just me, but that DNG converter is messing up images, your 5D2 looks way better in DPP vs. your 5D3s in DNG.


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## bchernicoff (Mar 28, 2012)

Thanks for the hardwork. When the rumors of the MK III were flying around, I decided that my upgrade criteria was sensor at least as good as my Mk II with the AF and speed of 7D. That was all I really needed and anything beyond that was a bonus. So, far I am loving it. So, my question is, how many of you are really going to be mad if there is no real IQ improvement over the Mk II?


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

Arkarch said:


> Thank-you for the hard work.
> 
> I took a look at the 70-200 @ 70 Test 1 shots on a NEC PA241 wide gamut.
> 
> ...


LOL I am a dumb ass I left the cameras in AWB! I noticed the framing slightly different too which is strange as i made sure not to move the tripod when changing and particularly on the 70-200 as it was mounted to the tripod by the lens foot
also i realised the 16mm 5D3 shots from the 16-35 were actually at 17mm


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

JR said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > Executive summary:
> ...


I really think it could be the raw converter, One thing is all of this was done using center point only. when i was shooting out in the field and using a variety of AF points (before doing this test) the results were all over the place. I'm still not sold on the AF yet but really need to spend more time with it to be fair.
also the sharpness in this situation is really only an issue at pixel peeping level I cannot see it manifesting in prints unless they are bill boards. 

As others have mentioned if for studio and landscape at iso 100 then there is very little benefit to upgrade from a 5Dmk2 to 5Dmk3.

I think form looking at my high iso stuff there is about a stop benefit in the 5Dmk3 however the noise at higher isos on the 5D3 looks much more like film grain and so for certain shots and shooting there will be a massive increase in useability

Personally I love the new handling ergonomics, feel, the viewfinder is a big step up IMO. more functions/ customisation ability, build quality all of this stuff doesnt show up in test samples

I'm glad you guys are getting some value out of it, I'm really keen to go over this again when final raw converters are released.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 28, 2012)

bchernicoff said:


> Thanks for the hardwork. When the rumors of the MK III were flying around, I decided that my upgrade criteria was sensor at least as good as my Mk II with the AF and speed of 7D. That was all I really needed and anything beyond that was a bonus. So, far I am loving it. So, my question is, how many of you are really going to be mad if there is no real IQ improvement over the Mk II?


My main criteria on my wishlist for 5Dmk3 was

Same or better sensor as 5Dmk2 (I think its about the same once the software is sorted out)
I was hoping for 1 more stop of high ISO (I think we got it)
better AF I was hoping they would just bolt the 1Dmk4 AF in (I am still undecided about the AF as my field testing results are not impressing me but I have to reserve judgment until i get to grips with it more)
Build closer to 1D (definatley got this, very happy with the build)
better customisability (yep much better)
same battery (yep that was nice)
bracketing like the 1D (got the functionality but a button to enable bracketing like the 1D would be nice or the ability to asign this function to the rate button which i will never use)


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## bchernicoff (Mar 29, 2012)

The thing to remember about the AF is that it is going to lock on whatever is closest to you. If you have all 61 points enabled the closest object might not be the one you want to focus on. In genreal, I default to the center 9 AF points, and have disabled AF when pressing the shutter release. I center the viewfinder on the subject, press the AF-ON button to focus, and then recompose and shoot. If the 9 center points aren't precise enough I try one of the spot AF modes. It seems like the time to use all 61 points will be with the Ai modes and moving subjects.

One caveat to what I describe above... if you are shooting f/2 or wider the center, focus, recompose, shoot method can result in missed focus since the depth of field is so shallow and the distance to the subject can change slightly when you recompose.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 30, 2012)

I always use spot focus and dont have a problem with normal foucs.
just playing with the new system in AI servo probably getting about a 50 or 60% 
hit rate at the moment
I would say with the 1Dmk3 its usually 90%
but like i say i'm playing around with the optionsa nd settings. there is alot to go through
its an epic AF system thats for sure, i'm wondering if 1 digic is enough for such a beast of a system


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## Bosman (Mar 30, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> sleepnever said:
> 
> 
> > Provide a single .rar file ...nobody wants to hit RapidShare and wait X seconds for free users for each file.
> ...


Ive learned that one too, people don't appreciate the time you put into it. I do but i dont need to look at them Wicked.


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## Bosman (Mar 30, 2012)

Wicked, you musta thought i was a chump with my around the house testing of the focus lol. You really get into this! Do you do landscapes too?
I shoot weddings and sports so pretty demanding on the focus system. From what i am getting things are looking great and better than the 1dm3 even. I don't have work to back up my findings nor have i decided on a field trip to do so. Although i love all the info i can get my hands on, this type of technical doesn't inspire me. That's just me though. 

As far as the white balance goes i do believe the 5d and 5dm2 both have warmer tones. I believe the 5dm3 to have more neutral tones which i prefer since if i want to add WB warmth i will but i dont want to have to take WB warmth away.
I wonder if you got a bad copy if you aren't finding things to be great, it sounds like you did some micro adjusting and yet still not happy? One thing about electronics, they can have bad parts and typically problems show up right away like for JR. I remember going to Norman Camera and we took out a new camera and turned it on and an error flashed the screen and it was un-usable, i'd feel bad for the person that waited to get home before testing it.


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## Wild (Mar 30, 2012)

Thanks Wicked! Really appreciate the time and effort you took in posting this comparison!


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## wickidwombat (Mar 30, 2012)

Bosman said:


> Wicked, you musta thought i was a chump with my around the house testing of the focus lol. You really get into this! Do you do landscapes too?
> I shoot weddings and sports so pretty demanding on the focus system. From what i am getting things are looking great and better than the 1dm3 even. I don't have work to back up my findings nor have i decided on a field trip to do so. Although i love all the info i can get my hands on, this type of technical doesn't inspire me. That's just me though.
> 
> As far as the white balance goes i do believe the 5d and 5dm2 both have warmer tones. I believe the 5dm3 to have more neutral tones which i prefer since if i want to add WB warmth i will but i dont want to have to take WB warmth away.
> I wonder if you got a bad copy if you aren't finding things to be great, it sounds like you did some micro adjusting and yet still not happy? One thing about electronics, they can have bad parts and typically problems show up right away like for JR. I remember going to Norman Camera and we took out a new camera and turned it on and an error flashed the screen and it was un-usable, i'd feel bad for the person that waited to get home before testing it.



I shoot mainly weddings and studio, some landscape stuff and street for fun and occassionally wildlife
I'm thinking its less that I have a faulty unit and more just getting to grips with the new AF
when i got 5Dmk2s i had to completely change my shooting style and reconfigure my 1D3 
so that they operated in a similar way so have been using center point only focus and recompose
my main use of AI servo is for the faster parts of weddings and walking models so nothing as fast paced as sports but i'm still playing with the settings.

One question i have been wondering about the AF modes are they like pictures styles where each is just a variation of the customisable sections that have sliders or are each seperate functioning items and the sliders are for tweaking each one. the manul isnt clear about this.

as for image quality I definately think the 5Dmk2 has the edge in low iso but the 5d3 is holding its own and definately pulls ahead the higher the iso climbs.


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## RedShark (Mar 30, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Overall I feel the images are sharper however I think the 5Dmk2 still beats the 5Dmk3.


That makes sense... not. Care to elaborate?

Also, did you find the AF micro adjust method to positively affect the sharpness? I find it a little disconcerting that the first thing you have to do upon receipt of a MkIII is "fix" the focus for it to be optimally sharp...


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## wickidwombat (Mar 30, 2012)

RedShark said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > Overall I feel the images are sharper however I think the 5Dmk2 still beats the 5Dmk3.
> ...



ummm there are over 50 RAW files from both the 5Dmk2 and 5Dmk3 the reason i posted this was so that people can make up their own mind about which is sharper. My personal take is that the 5D2 is sharper


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## wickidwombat (Apr 1, 2012)

well my camera definately has something screwy going on with the AF, after calibration and checking the results are good (close enough to the mk2 for my liking) then shooting at wide aperture the focus is all over the place 
using center point or an out point. Taking it back today


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## JR (Apr 10, 2012)

Sorry to hear that. You and i must have gotten a unit from the same batch then! :-[


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## birdman (Apr 11, 2012)

Music to my ears!! I still love my 5d2, as it was and still is revolutionary in IQ. Heck, even the 5d classic produces gorgeous pictures by today's standards. 

for those that need all that the 5d3 upgrades on, and these are primarily wedding and sports photographers, the price and wait is WELL worth it. For me, a landscape guy, it doesn't matter. Had this camera been 28MP, with a complete fix to the renowned banding issue, then I would jump all over it--even at $4,000 probably. Canon will hit full stride in the next 1-3 years upgrading their lenses. 

As stated in other posts, I have the D800 on preorder, I own some decent Nikon primes, and want to see what the hype is all about. Worse case scenario has me returning the camera for no charge, or selling it a small premium on Ebay. Maybe I'll pocket enough to go towards a 70-200/4 IS that's calling my freaking name!!


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## JR (Apr 11, 2012)

birdman said:


> Maybe I'll pocket enough to go towards a 70-200/4 IS that's calling my freaking name!!



Now that is a good glass that is also calling me! I will likely get it eventually....especially for summer shooting where I am more outside then during the winter...


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## cpsico (Apr 11, 2012)

birdman said:


> Music to my ears!! I still love my 5d2, as it was and still is revolutionary in IQ. Heck, even the 5d classic produces gorgeous pictures by today's standards.
> 
> for those that need all that the 5d3 upgrades on, and these are primarily wedding and sports photographers, the price and wait is WELL worth it. For me, a landscape guy, it doesn't matter. Had this camera been 28MP, with a complete fix to the renowned banding issue, then I would jump all over it--even at $4,000 probably. Canon will hit full stride in the next 1-3 years upgrading their lenses.
> 
> As stated in other posts, I have the D800 on preorder, I own some decent Nikon primes, and want to see what the hype is all about. Worse case scenario has me returning the camera for no charge, or selling it a small premium on Ebay. Maybe I'll pocket enough to go towards a 70-200/4 IS that's calling my freaking name!!


the 70-200/4 IS , is awesome. You will love how sharp the pictures come out.


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## Bosman (Apr 11, 2012)

JR said:


> birdman said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I'll pocket enough to go towards a 70-200/4 IS that's calling my freaking name!!
> ...


No comprendo, u have the best at the same focal lengths already...70-200mm f2.8L IS II.


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## D.Sim (Apr 11, 2012)

Bosman said:


> JR said:
> 
> 
> > birdman said:
> ...


A lighter version useful for outdoor use, I'd assume...


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## JR (Apr 11, 2012)

Bosman said:


> JR said:
> 
> 
> > birdman said:
> ...



Yes indeed the 2.8 version is the best but for outdoor sometime it means I need to carry it longer and weight does become an issue for me. So having the option to carry something lighter does appeal to me. If I can get away with just 135mm then I carry this one, but carrying the 70-200 2.8 to the park to plan with my daughter can become a bit on the heavy side _for me_.

This is why the f4 version always interested me. Then again I have yet to pull the trigger on it!


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