# *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

```
<p><em>Latest updates to this post are in bold.

</em><strong>A different source has added new specifications. We’re pretty confident in their validity.</strong></p>
<p>Below is the latest we’ve been told about the upcoming Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. I would be inclined to put a [CR3] on this, but I will wait for further confirmations.</p>
<p>No CFast slot has caught us by surprise and we expect this specification list to grow after the next few days.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>30.4mp</strong></li>
<li><strong>7fps</strong></li>
<li>Compact Flash/SD Card Slots (No CFast)</li>
<li>Built-in Wifi</li>
<li>24/30fps @ 4K</li>
<li>60fps @ 1080</li>
<li>120fps @ 720</li>
<li><strong>4:2:2</strong></li>
<li><strong>8bit 500mbps MJPEG</strong></li>
<li>USB 3</li>
<li>Cable release port moved to the front of the camera where the “Mark XX” badge was.</li>
<li>A lot more touchscreen functionality than the EOS-1D X Mark II</li>
<li>Other ergonomic changes, such as a new “locking switch” on the rear of the camera.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>*UPDATE*

</strong>We’ve confirmed wifi from the same source and added it here. We expect GPS to be standard as well.</p>

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## H. Jones (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*

Did the image come with the rumors? If so, I put a lot of faith in them-- I'm very confident that image is real.

Honestly-- who would have thought of them putting the cable release by the Mark III badge? There is obviously not enough room with a USB 3.0 connector and headphone jack on the port side, as seen with the 1DX mark II. It makes sense to me that they would move this stuff around, and there wouldn't be any other space for the cable release to be, unlike with the 1DX mark II hand grip.

I also notice immediately the new ridge that surrounds the prism-- this makes sense to me, since this would possibly be a non-magnesium alloy part of the frame, allowing GPS and wi-fi built-in without a GPS bump. This is another small feature that I doubt someone would fake, since the obvious thing would be for a faker to just throw the GPS bump on a 5D body.

I'm confident that that image is the real 5D mark IV though.


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## PureClassA (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*

30MP huh? If the video specs are as rumored here, that will likely make me want to eat the 1DX2 price tag, since I could get more use out of it for my dance subjects (both stills and slow-mo video at 120 fps in 1080p with DPAF that 5D4 likely wont have) instead of renting it every year.

I'm getting antsy. I wish the final specs would just come out already so I figure out what to do LOL


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## rrcphoto (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Canon Rumors said:


> Below is the latest we’ve been told about the upcoming Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. I would be inclined to put a [CR3] on this, but I will wait for further confirmations.



that "Mark IV" looks pretty faked.

alot of pixelation around the EOS, 5D and Mark IV in the image.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

I had to pull the image for the moment.


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## PureClassA (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

BTW, given those video specs, that explains the lack of CFast slot in the rumor set. The 1DX2 uses it for 14fps stills, 60fps in 4k, and 120fps in 1080p. The 5D4 appears to be doing none of that according to this list.

ANd that bump on top you mentioned looks like the hot shoe. Not a notch in the body like the 1dx2


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



rrcphoto said:


> that "Mark IV" looks pretty faked.
> 
> alot of pixelation around the EOS, 5D and Mark IV in the image.



It's legit... bigger one shortly.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



PureClassA said:


> BTW, given those video specs, that explains the lack of CFast slot in the rumor set. The 1DX2 uses it for 14fps stills, 60fps in 4k, and 120fps in 1080p. The 5D4 appears to be doing none of that according to this list.
> 
> ANd that bump on top you mentioned looks like the hot shoe. Not a notch in the body like the 1dx2



the curve of the front of the pentaprism is certainly different than the 5D Mark II and III.


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## bp (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Underwhelming


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## rrcphoto (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Canon Rumors said:


> 30mp
> Compact Flash/SD Card Slots (No CFast)
> 24/30fps @ 4K



makes sense.

doing the napkin math assuming that canon put dual digic in, that should be able to hit around 8-9fps.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Canon Rumors said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > that "Mark IV" looks pretty faked.
> ...



looking at the 5D, 5D Mark II and the III .. there's no other body that matches where the groves / seams are, and the shape of the pentaprism.

it's unique.

I'm hoping the bigger bulk is for something worthwhile.. there has to be a reason for the increased size of the housing .. wifi / gps .. or hybrid viewfinder? 8)


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## rbielefeld (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

How many fps at 30mp? That is the question I have now. Glad to see 30mp. This will be a good small, perched bird camera for me. I have the 1DxII for my fast action birds in flight. The 5DIV at 30mp will do the small bird job.


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## tron (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

I hope it shoots at 8fps = 240Mp/sec ~ 250Mp/sec = 5 * 50Mp of 5Ds(R)

But I am not optimistic...


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## privatebydesign (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



H. Jones said:


> Honestly-- who would have thought of them putting the cable release by the Mark III badge? There is obviously not enough room with a USB 3.0 connector and headphone jack on the port side, as seen with the 1DX mark II. It makes sense to me that they would move this stuff around, and there wouldn't be any other space for the cable release to be, unlike with the 1DX mark II hand grip.



The old position on the 5's and 1's never made sense if you used an L-Plate. Thank goodness they have moved them it was well overdue.


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## rbielefeld (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



tron said:


> I hope it shoots at 8fps = 240Mp/sec ~ 250Mp/sec = 5 * 50Mp of 5Ds(R)
> 
> But I am not optimistic...



8 fps would be awesome. That would fall nicely behind the 10 of the 7DII and the 14 1DxII, so it seems not out of the question, but 6fps is more likely in my mind.


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## H. Jones (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Front of the camera for cable release? I suppose it will have its own new cover?
> Is it the same connector even as previous or will Canon do an Apple?



I really have no doubt that it's the same 3 pin cable. 1DX mark II also moved its cable release and it still has a 3-pin.


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## TommyLee (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

all good But
I wish for a spot meter link to focus.. c'mon guys just that one little stocking stuffer....


I wonder how deep the RAW buffer will be? at 8 fps

20? 24?(my guess)

////
I guess the new 24-105 will be about $1400 making the kit about $4500....
..I would do that IFF the new 24-105 has better sharpness and blue goo...


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## unfocused (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

I have to admit I'm surprised by 30mp. I guess I am in the minority, not caring about higher mp counts. I do wonder what the high ISO performance will be like. I expect that it will match the 5D III, but may not exceed it. (Just like the 1DX and 1DX II)

Perhaps sensors have pretty much reached their upper limit on ISO and the major improvements in the next few years will be dynamic range at base ISO and increased megapixel count?

Expanded touchscreen use is a welcome addition. I hope that eventually Canon unlocks some added functionality for the 1DX II -- Going through the "Q" and regular menu by touch would be nice.

Surprised also by the lack of CFast. With only video and the 1Dx using CFast I guess I can't expect the price to drop much anytime soon. I kind of hoped the added demand of a 5D would drive down the price. 

Anxiously awaiting more info.


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## MaxFoto (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

FPS?


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## LSXPhotog (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Anyone that is upset to see the 5D Mark IVnot having 120 FPS 1080, should probably go look at the 1dx Mark II 120fps. That footage looks pretty horrible, and I doubt anyone would actually deliver that to a client except for a rare case...

If this gets 8-9fps, a usable buffer on both cards and not just the CF, better low light AF and overall sensor performance, I'll be happy to dish another 3 grand to Canon.

Be realistic, folks. Sony cameras have created false expectations for a consumer camera from a professional camera manufacturer.


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## bvukich (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



TommyLee said:


> all good But
> I wish for a spot meter link to focus.. c'mon guys just that one little stocking stuffer....



It's such a small thing, but I want it so bad. I really don't want to go up to a 1DX2 to get it because in every other regard that is overkill for what I shoot.


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## raptor3x (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



unfocused said:


> I have to admit I'm surprised by 30mp. I guess I am in the minority, not caring about higher mp counts. I do wonder what the high ISO performance will be like. I expect that it will match the 5D III, but may not exceed it. (Just like the 1DX and 1DX II)



That would be a bit disappointing since the 5Ds already beats the 5D3 for high ISO performance. I would hope a 30MP 5DIV would match the 1DX or at least the 6D.


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## RBC5 (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



H. Jones said:


> Did the image come with the rumors? If so, I put a lot of faith in them-- I'm very confident that image is real.



If the remote release connection is in place of the "Mark IV" badge, according to rumors, and there is the badge and no remote release spot, why do you think the image is real?


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## rrcphoto (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



RBC5 said:


> H. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Did the image come with the rumors? If so, I put a lot of faith in them-- I'm very confident that image is real.
> ...



that image showed a canon 5D camera that has never been made before. it doesn't match the 5D, II or III camera housings.

so hard not to think it's legit.


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## gsealy (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



bp said:


> Underwhelming



I agree. The stills guys will be happy with the 30mp. That is nice. But the 4K video specs don't do much for me. I was expecting 60 fps , but without CFast, that will not happen. I was under the impression that this camera would be somewhat video centric, at least as good as the 1DxII, but it is not. (Even the 1DxII video at 8 bit motion JPG is not really great for serious work.) What these specs say to me, is to look around for alternatives. There is no rush to spend $3500 or so. That's fine.


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## H. Jones (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



RBC5 said:


> H. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Did the image come with the rumors? If so, I put a lot of faith in them-- I'm very confident that image is real.
> ...



It said the remote release connection is where the Mark III badge was-- which is the bottom right of the camera.

In the leaked image, the Mark IV badge has moved from where the Mark III badge was, to where the "5D" badge was. There's no reason the Mark IV badge would move to be with the 5D badge other than the fact that the remote release was moved to the Mark III badge area. That's why I'm confident.

EDIT: Looks like this is a confusion caused by the removal of the leaked image-- I'm not referring to the mock up that is up right now, I'm referring to the leaked image that was removed.


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## frankchn (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



RBC5 said:


> If the remote release connection is in place of the "Mark IV" badge, according to rumors, and there is the badge and no remote release spot, why do you think the image is real?



The image right now is a placeholder/mockup. CR Admin says that he had to take the original leaked image down temporarily.


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## wildwalker (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

No 4K P50/60?

If I wanted 4Kp30 i'd buy a GoPro! Everyone knows that broadcast 4K at less than 50fps will be unusable. Seriously this sounds like the 4K part of this body is now just a gimmick to get more people interested.

For a camera that won't likely be updated for another 4 years, this is a serious downer.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



wildwalker said:


> No 4K P50/60?
> 
> If I wanted 4Kp30 i'd buy a GoPro! Everyone knows that broadcast 4K at less than 50fps will be unusable. Seriously this sounds like the 4K part of this body is now just a gimmick to get more people interested.
> 
> For a camera that won't likely be updated for another 4 years, this is a serious downer.


 :


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## AWR (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Oh no. Stills only -guys might like, but this is bad for video people.
Biggest wall for ML has been CF cards. 
Also 4K will no doubt have idiotic codec to make it work with CF cards.
And even it might sometimes be used too much, if you make living with video, these days you absolutely need to offer good slow motion. 

I don't like Sony colors, but I also bet they will offer something new in photokina and IBC. 
Already great success with their FS-5 and A7S II in the same price bracket.

Oh why oh why Canon! Sad sad CF card.


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## gsealy (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



wildwalker said:


> No 4K P50/60?
> 
> If I wanted 4Kp30 i'd buy a GoPro! Everyone knows that broadcast 4K at less than 50fps will be unusable. Seriously this sounds like the 4K part of this body is now just a gimmick to get more people interested.
> 
> For a camera that won't likely be updated for another 4 years, this is a serious downer.



And, as of right now it can't do what the 5DIII can do with Magic Lantern. I tend to agree with you, the 4K feature is kind of a gimmick for people who just want to say they are shooting 4K.


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## Eersel (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

+3 Evs of DR please


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## gsealy (Aug 9, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



AWR said:


> Oh no. Stills only -guys might like, but this is bad for video people.
> Biggest wall for ML has been CF cards.
> Also 4K will no doubt have idiotic codec to make it work with CF cards.
> And even it might sometimes be used too much, if you make living with video, these days you absolutely need to offer good slow motion.
> ...



Rumour is that the A7R III will be very special. The A7R II is already 40 mp, with 4K 30 fps. And it supports external recording of video at 4:2:2. I know that the A7RII has over heating problems, but perhaps the A7RIII fixes those problems and then goes beyond with 4K 60 fps with external recording.


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## StutteringStanley (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

And 120fps @720P??? 

You realize this camera has to last 3/4 years and its already way under specced compared to the Sony lineup...

Bye Canon.


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## gsealy (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



StutteringStanley said:


> And 120fps @720P???
> 
> You realize this camera has to last 3/4 years and its already way under specced compared to the Sony lineup...
> 
> Bye Canon.



I was also kind of surprised that the C300 II recent firmware update did not have 4K 60 fps in it. Very strange thinking these days at Canon.


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## Camerajah (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Isn't it suppose to look more like the EOS 3?


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## Dave Del Real (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Digic 6+?


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## privatebydesign (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



gsealy said:


> StutteringStanley said:
> 
> 
> > And 120fps @720P???
> ...



Canon make decisions like that at the highest level and they are well reasoned within the company, it might not make sense to you, but they believe it does to them. Their track record on getting it right seems to point to them knowing what they are doing.

Apple left 4K out of the current Apple TV sighting a comparative lack of available content and bandwidth. Maybe Canon have similar high level reasons.


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## zim (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Hey, CR Guy could you email me the original photo that you pulled, I missed it 

;D


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## TommyLee (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



bvukich said:


> TommyLee said:
> 
> 
> > all good But
> ...




yes ...it is all I ask 
I dont NEED all the rest ... of the 1dx2 .... and I do love the customization.. 
but - I believe - the basic shooting...needs the spot meter / link ....feature

I guess that's two of us


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



StutteringStanley said:


> Bye Canon.



H&G from CR forums. :


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## tpatana (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



PureClassA said:


> 30MP huh? If the video specs are as rumored here, that will likely make me want to eat the 1DX2 price tag, since I could get more use out of it for my dance subjects (both stills and slow-mo video at 120 fps in 1080p with DPAF that 5D4 likely wont have) instead of renting it every year.
> 
> I'm getting antsy. I wish the final specs would just come out already so I figure out what to do LOL



Almost exactly my thoughts.


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## pwp (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



unfocused said:


> I have to admit I'm surprised by 30mp. I guess I am in the minority, not caring about higher mp counts.


Me too, given the core market for this camera you'd think it would have stayed put at 22MP or maybe bumped to 24MP to keep the marketing department happy. 30MP looks like a win for the marketing dept and a loss for the 5DIV's majority/core market. 


unfocused said:


> Surprised also by the lack of CFast.
> Anxiously awaiting more info.


Personally I don't mind one way or the other...but CFast would have been welcomed by many. It's a baffling omission.

-pw


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## takesome1 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

There is no way I will buy this body.
It is obvious (by comparison to all the 5Ds posts) the increased pixel density will make it 34% harder to hand hold.

But on a serious note, I wonder what kind of ISO performance it will have.


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## pwp (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Nobody? "_Nobody_" is a very big place. You've been reading the posts. The variety of expectations for 5DIV MP's has ranged from 16MP to 40MP. While nobody will dispute 30MP will deliver pixel peepers a tangible IQ hike, that's not the whole story. 

It's the busy high volume photographers who want to keep the MP's in the current highly adequate range as happened with the 1DXII. Most would gladly trade 8MP's for improved high iso performance, to maintain current post production performance levels without computer upgrades and to some extent having to manage higher data volumes at the job delivery, storage and backup/archiving stages of their workflow. 

Nevertheless, whether the final shipping 5DIV is 22, 24, 28 or 30MP, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one.

-pw


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## tron (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



pwp said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...


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## raptor3x (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



takesome1 said:


> There is no way I will buy this body.
> It is obvious (by comparison to all the 5Ds posts) the increased pixel density will make it 34% harder to hand hold.
> 
> But on a serious note, I wonder what kind of ISO performance it will have.



16% harder, not 34%.


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## pwp (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way I will buy this body.
> ...



Glad all my lenses are IS 

-pw


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## dolina (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Price and availability would be nice... 

Announcement timeline of the 5D series

- 22 August 2005 for the Mark I
- 17 September 2008 for the Mark II
- 2 March 2012 for the Mark III
- 6 February 2015 for the 5Ds

So an announcement sometime by the 3rd weeks of August or September are likely.

Shipping to happen by December. If Customs keeps it at the pier it will come out January.

In terms of usage the 5Ds and 7D Mark II would have greatly benefited from having the CFast card slot.


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## pwp (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> The same might have been said when going from 12MP 5D to 21MP 5DII or ...
> "Oh no! More MP! Sky is falling!"



There was a great deal of consensus that something around 20MP was a sweet spot for many photographers. We've hovered around there for some time for good reason, and there was praise for Canon for resisting the temptation and pressure from the marketing dudes when the 5DIII shipped with 22MP. 

You'll find personally valid arguments for just about anything, including megapixels. It's about finding the sweet spot for the majority.

MF shooters go in with their eyes open regards data volume. It's a clear choice. Generally MF shooters won't achieve the number of frames shot per project as your typical working 5Dxx / 1-Series shooter, it's a more considered process. Some high volume MF fashion shooters will be an exception here. 

-pw


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## RGF (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

specs look good but no mention of GPS. Perhaps that will come, also.

Rich


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## mclaren777 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

I can't believe nobody saved the image before he pulled it.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



pwp said:


> There was a great deal of consensus that something around 20MP was a sweet spot for many photographers. We've hovered around there for some time for good reason, and there was praise for Canon for resisting the temptation and pressure from the marketing dudes when the 5DIII shipped with 22MP.



There was a great deal of consensus that something around 10-12MP was a sweet spot for many photographers. We've hovered around there for some time for good reason, and there was praise for Canon for resisting the temptation and pressure from the marketing dudes when the 1DIII shipped with 12MP. 

Hmmm, I guess it's all about timing...


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## chiron (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Actually, I like the sound of what I am hearing. It appears that, despite the rumors, Canon kept the 5d4 as primarily a stills camera, with adjunctive video. The reports had been that the camera was going to lean video, which would have been an abrupt departure from the market and the the traditions of this body.

Also, I can live happily with 30mpix. Standards have moved upward in the last few years, and Canon has very strong IS technology, which they have been putting out in lens after lens.

If the sensor is notched up a bit on high ISO, and AF in low light is strengthened, they get to or close to 8fps, along with whatever else they have stitched into the electronics, this could be a very lovely camera to possess and shoot with. And the changes above sort of have to be there to keep the 5d4 separated from the 6d, which is also a very lovely camera.

Canon makes cameras to make pictures with, not to read the spec sheets on, and their cameras are always very lovely to actually use.


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## Ozarker (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



unfocused said:


> I have to admit I'm surprised by 30mp. I guess I am in the minority, not caring about higher mp counts. I do wonder what the high ISO performance will be like. I expect that it will match the 5D III, but may not exceed it. (Just like the 1DX and 1DX II)
> 
> Perhaps sensors have pretty much reached their upper limit on ISO and the major improvements in the next few years will be dynamic range at base ISO and increased megapixel count?
> 
> ...



I'm with you about not caring about higher mega pixel counts.

I'd wish instead for 2 Compact Flash slots, 8-10 FPS, Auto AFMA and better ISO performance, but we can't all have what we want. Sadly.

For what I do I am still extremely happy with my 5D mark III and I would instead spend Mark IV money on portable strobes or maybe the new 85mm f/1.2L III when it arrives and maybe a 35mm.

I'll happily wait for a 5d Mark V.

In the morning, I hope your coffee is hot and your donuts still warm.


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## Ozarker (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



rrcphoto said:


> RBC5 said:
> 
> 
> > H. Jones said:
> ...



Look real close. The badge is the cover. There is a little thumbnail cutout at the bottom for opening.


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## jalbfb (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

30 mp a pleasant surprise and better than the 24 that was initially speculated upon. I'm happy with that and the prelim specs posted so far. No CFast card just means that I do not have to spend more money on a new set of memory cards or another reader. The video specs are Ok for me since I'm not a big video guy so I'll leave comments about that to those whose video needs are more important to them. Keep the specs and info coming. A bump from 7 to 8 fps would be nice icing on the cake for me.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



StutteringStanley said:


> And 120fps @720P???
> 
> You realize this camera has to last 3/4 years and its already way under specced compared to the Sony lineup...
> 
> Bye Canon.



Bye Stanley. : You signed up this evening just to say that.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > There was a great deal of consensus that something around 20MP was a sweet spot for many photographers. We've hovered around there for some time for good reason, and there was praise for Canon for resisting the temptation and pressure from the marketing dudes when the 5DIII shipped with 22MP.
> ...



It's funny how different people remember things differently. As I recall, when Nikon was at around 12 mp and Canon was climbing up toward 18 (APS-C), lots of folks were complaining that Canon had too many mp and Nikon had better quality because it had fewer mp. 

Before the 5DIII came out, there were predictions that Canon would really up the mp count and lots of folks were saying that they didn't want higher megapixels. When the 1Dx and 5DIII came out with modest resolution, people seemed surprised but satisfied.

Then Nikon and Sony leapfrogged Canon and suddenly Canon was "behind." So, now, we are hearing that Canon has to have higher megapixels or it won't be competitive. 

Maybe we are in for a serious leap in the standard resolution. I don't really care that much. I'm happy where I'm at and the 1DX II is enough of a camera to keep me satisfied for years. 

I just expressed surprise that Canon would go all the way to 30mp and am curious what the trade offs might be. Because, you know...physics is a stubborn thing. So, I imagine there will be trade offs.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



StutteringStanley said:


> And 120fps @720P???
> 
> You realize this camera has to last 3/4 years and its already way under specced compared to the Sony lineup...
> 
> Bye Canon.



troll much?

I'd love to see how it's "ALREADY way under specced .. "

when that's the exact same specs of the sony A7RII,etc .. sans sony's color grading hell and consumer class codec's.

and it probably doesn't overheat either.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



CanonFanBoy said:


> StutteringStanley said:
> 
> 
> > And 120fps @720P???
> ...



Fixed that for ya...


----------



## CarlMillerPhoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

If there's no CFast, it's a good sign that 4k will be at a reasonable bitrate, unlike the 1dx II. Whether it's sharp and retains detail after Canon's internal Digic compression will be another question. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > StutteringStanley said:
> ...



Bwahahahahaha! Can't believe I missed that! I'm a little s-s-slow. Thanks.


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > StutteringStanley said:
> ...



Sometimes it's best to leave the low-hanging fruit on the tree to rot. If you wanted to poke fun at Stanley you could have done so without, ya know, poking fun at lots of people who are not Stanley.


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



CanonFanBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



Shame on both of you for making fun of someone with a communication disorder. He may never post here again.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Watching this closely. I know Canon can be very underwhelming but these specs might bode well for 7D2 users waiting on the firmware update...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



CanonFanBoy said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I have to admit I'm surprised by 30mp. I guess I am in the minority, not caring about higher mp counts. I do wonder what the high ISO performance will be like. I expect that it will match the 5D III, but may not exceed it. (Just like the 1DX and 1DX II)
> ...



well the rumor didn't say compact flash / sd .. simply compact flash.

better ISO performance with more pixels is pretty straightforward .. the 5Ds has better ISO performance really than the 5D mark III in the real world.

8-10 fps should be doable .. with the 5Ds at 250MP/s w/ DiGiC 5+ and the 5D Mark IV most likely with DiGiC 6+'s.

seems you're already made up your mind based upon things that weren't even mentioned though.


----------



## DanThePhotoMan (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

I'm actually really happy with this list of specs. It makes me feel pretty darn content with my 5Dmk3 and doesn't give me much of a wanting, much less a need to upgrade. If these are accurate, the 5Dmk3 will sit happily in my bag, unless another company steals me away for photography like Sony did with the FS7 for my video work.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Canon Rumors said:


> 30mp
> Compact Flash/SD Card Slots (No CFast)
> USB 3
> A lot more touchscreen functionality than the EOS-1D X Mark II



YES! I may get a 5DIV after all. Always believed that Canon would never release a 5DIV with less than 30 MPIX after Canon concluded they had underestimated the market's desire for more MPIX.


----------



## wildwalker (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



gsealy said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > No 4K P50/60?
> ...



Yes could be. Stills image quality will still be king, but if the upcoming 6DMk2 will employ a similar PQ, then I would save some of my cash and get that. I am not wholly bothered by Video, but if you are going to put video on a camera body, and charge people the price for that feature, the feature needs to make sense.

But I guess this is still in the rumour stage? lets wait and see.


----------



## Chaitanya (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Typical Dumbass Canon behaviour, its time to drop CF slot already. Pretty sure Nikon will drop CF from their D810 replacement in favour of XQD.


----------



## -1 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



pwp said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Surprised also by the lack of CFast.
> ...


Not too baffling. This is an blunt atempt to keep the five series out of the pro bag as sidekicks to those 1Dx2s.


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



wildwalker said:


> Everyone knows that broadcast 4K at less than 50fps will be unusable.



You obviously don't know what you're tallking about; I checked with my mother, she didn't know...


----------



## Meatcurry (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Where is the damm image, I'm I the only person who didn't see it?


----------



## leGreve (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Why is there no rumor on the codec used?

Makes me think they didn't give a s*** about fixing the aweful color science on the video part. Sure it's useable for clients who don't give a shit and just want content, but for proper jobs, there is still a lot to be wanted.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



LSXPhotog said:


> Anyone that is upset to see the 5D Mark IVnot having 120 FPS 1080, should probably go look at the 1dx Mark II 120fps. That footage looks pretty horrible, and I doubt anyone would actually deliver that to a client except for a rare case...



The ones I've seen look good, that's why I was hoping 5D4 also to have 1080p120.


----------



## pwp (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Meatcurry said:


> Where is the damm image, I'm I the only person who didn't see it?



Have a look here:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d4.html

-pw


----------



## tpatana (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



pwp said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > takesome1 said:
> ...



Glad I don't have Parkinson's.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

I'm a wedding shooter who runs dual 5DSr's and another as a spare in my car as backup.

No Cfast or UHS-ii? Maybe I won't be needing to buy a 5D4 or at least another reason not to (as well as the AA filter which it'll no doubt have).

That being said, maybe 12 months down the line they'll put Cfast and UHS-ii into the 5DSr mkii along with that new readout technology and the world will be good.


----------



## nicolas.det (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

24 - 30mp..

To my mind not important, I do not plan to upgrade. I 'd rather buy better lens!

To my mind, the 5DMIII is already very good. For a new body, I'm looking for better ISO performances, better AF, even more robust, faster/deeper buffer... resolution come last of my list.

Take care


----------



## Meatcurry (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



pwp said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > Where is the damm image, I'm I the only person who didn't see it?
> ...



Just looked, still nothing!


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Meatcurry said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > Meatcurry said:
> ...



Refresh the post on the site and see the link at the bottom


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



leGreve said:


> Why is there no rumor on the codec used?
> 
> Makes me think they didn't give a s*** about fixing the aweful color science on the video part. Sure it's useable for clients who don't give a S___ and just want content, but for proper jobs, there is still a lot to be wanted.


Funny considering everyone else talks about the great canon color science.. even in video. :

PS. Color science and codec are two different things.


----------



## Meatcurry (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Canon Rumors said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



Ahhh ok, thanks


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Typical Dumbass Canon behaviour, its time to drop CF slot already. Pretty sure Nikon will drop CF from their D810 replacement in favour of XQD.
> ...



Sorry, but this is just complete bullshit. At some point in time you'll have to make the change and I believe we are either very close to this point or past it. What disk slot does you computer feature: 8", 5.25" 3.5"? Ah, tape, sorry nevermind...


----------



## Caven (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

It may as well be a long shot but just wanted to share why I think that in that picture the body depicted is the Mark IV. 

If you see the differences between 1DX and 1DX Mark II depicted here





you will see that the top element of the 1DX Mark II has a different style than the one of the 1DX.

Interestingly, the lines and curves appear similar to the "mystery" body presented in the leaked picture.

Hence, if Canon is following a new updated design (for any reason) then the body depicted in the leaked picture is Canon 5D Mark IV. 

There you go.


----------



## Chaitanya (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Typical Dumbass Canon behaviour, its time to drop CF slot already. Pretty sure Nikon will drop CF from their D810 replacement in favour of XQD.
> ...



Sure CFast are expensive right now but without adoption on wider basis prices won't come down. Also one of the largest user for CF cards were the industrial PCs and even that market has moved away from CF to CFast for quite sometime now. I still dont understand why UHS-II SD cards aren't commonplace yet, other than handful of cameras even this standard has been given a cold shoulder.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

This seriouisly has to be one of the most anticipated cameras of all time.


----------



## H. Jones (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



-1 said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



No matter what they do, the 5D mark IV is going to end up as a sidekick to the 1dX Mark II. Most journalists I know already have at least one 5D mark III with them at any time. Often times they have two 1D cameras with the 24-70 and 70-200, and then a small, fast prime on a 5D series. 

It's just convenient to have a smaller, quieter body to work with, and it's a cheaper way to have another camera with you, CFast or not. Some of the White House press pool still have the old 3 FPS 5D Mark II in their bags, so this would definitely still be a great opportunity for them to upgrade that.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



tpatana said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



I'm glad that I know for a fact that this is a pure BS claim... It will be 100% equal to hand hold for sharpness compared to the 5DIII - and the 5DS/R for that matter. 

However, having 30 MPIX will allow for much sharper pictures with the 5DIV (and 5DS/R) than anything the 5DIII can produce if you improve your technique or use a tripod etc.

So - no downsides - only upside from more pixels being available when it comes to sharpness.


----------



## expatinasia (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I would imagine that for those interested in the 5D Mark IV they will be pleased that it is Dual CF Card. The biggest and fastest CF Cards are getting cheaper and cheaper and do not require any new investment for someone who had a 5D before. Plus being two of the same simplifies things.

I still think that the 1DX Mark II should have been two of the same card slots, but that is another conversation entirely.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I did a screen grab and lifted this little image in PS. That's a damn strange place to have a break / join in the body shells. Maybe I have been right for the last two years; this could be an interchangeable prism finder that can be changed to an EVF one. Pop it on, mirror automatically locks up and you have yourself a FF mirror less using DPAF principally for video, but mirror haters could use it for stills. 

Either that or it'a pop up flash, in which case I shall sell up and leave the universe.


----------



## pwp (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



RayValdez360 said:


> This seriously has to be one of the most anticipated cameras of all time.



....at least this year... 8)

-pw


----------



## Meatcurry (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sporgon said:


> I did a screen grab and lifted this little image in PS. That's a damn strange place to have a break / join in the body shells. Maybe I have been right for the last two years; this could be an interchangeable prism finder that can be changed to an EVF one. Pop it on, mirror automatically locks up and you have yourself a FF mirror less using DPAF principally for video, but mirror haters could use it for stills.
> 
> Either that or it'a pop up flash, in which case I shall sell up and leave the universe.



An interchangeable prism!, now that would be suttin, however I suspect that its just a plastic shroud that allows GPS,WiFi and RT signals through.


----------



## expatinasia (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



pwp said:


> RayValdez360 said:
> 
> 
> > This seriously has to be one of the most anticipated cameras of all time.
> ...



Or even since the 1DX Mark II came out a few months ago.... 8)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



romanr74 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



That point is when the capacity and/or speed of the recording media becomes a limitation. That was true for the 1D X II for CF, but if it's not the case for the 5DIV, then changing format just for the sake of it becomes a needless additional expense for buyers. 

For the 1D X II, it was a needed expense – and Canon helped defray that cost by offering a free card+reader bundle. Doing so for the 5DIV's much larger sales volume would be quite costly. While that doesn't matter to consumers, I can assure you it matters to Canon. 

No doubt Canon has data from consumers to support sticking with CF being better for sales, it's also better for most consumers, who likely already have CF cards and readers. 

Too bad you can't double the capacity of a CF card by cutting a notch out of the other side and flipping it over.


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



True short term given you limit the camera specs such that you don't "have to" upgrade to CFast. Yet it remains a short-term trade-off. It will not be possible or reasonable to remaint with an existing technology because the users would have extra investments with a tech change. That will come anyway, and the decision can easily and quickly turn into a handicap.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > I did a screen grab and lifted this little image in PS. That's a damn strange place to have a break / join in the body shells. Maybe I have been right for the last two years; this could be an interchangeable prism finder that can be changed to an EVF one. Pop it on, mirror automatically locks up and you have yourself a FF mirror less using DPAF principally for video, but mirror haters could use it for stills.
> ...



The break comes down the front to the lens mount, so with lens detached it could lift forwards. Maybe the same eyepiece is used for both viewfinders, so it doesn't change. It is unlikely to be an identical system to the ones used thirty odd years ago where the eyepiece was part of the finder.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Meatcurry said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > I did a screen grab and lifted this little image in PS. That's a damn strange place to have a break / join in the body shells. Maybe I have been right for the last two years; this could be an interchangeable prism finder that can be changed to an EVF one. Pop it on, mirror automatically locks up and you have yourself a FF mirror less using DPAF principally for video, but mirror haters could use it for stills.
> ...



The hump on the 1DxII is for gps. Is it plastic ? I'm not sure. I can't see Canon shrouding most of the top of the 5DIV in plastic. At least I hope they haven't.


----------



## jebrady03 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Maiaibing said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



It's amazing to me that people still think that pixel density affects total image noise and shake.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Is that because it makes shake apparent where it wan't before, or is it so you can take maximum benefit from all those pixels? The two are quite different.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



romanr74 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > romanr74 said:
> ...



Sorry, but it seems like you're not getting this – and it's not that complicated. It's very unlikely that Canon limited the camera specs based on keeping CF. The 1D X II needs CFast for full performance, but if you think the 5DIV should match the speed specs of the 1D X II, you should move to dilbertland. Please explain how, if a camera is released today and uses CF, that _not_ using CFast will 'easily and quickly turn into a handicap'. Are Sandisk and Lexar going to stop producing CF cards? Consider that even 8" floppies are still being manufactured, and 3.5" disks are still widely available. 

Yes, eventually the performance needs of the 5-series will require CFast (or something newer). But the 5DIV isn't there yet. Meanwhile, a 128 GB Sandisk CF costs $150, and a 128 GB CFast costs $370. A storage medium that costs *2.5x* as much without offering any performance benefit for a given camera is a real and present handicap, not some vague and unspecified potential future problem (except, apparently, for certain dumbasses who'd prefer to needlessly waste money).


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


If you print an image from the 5DSR and the 5DIII at the same size and view from the same distance will there be visibly more shake on the image from the 5DSR by virtue of having more pixels? I don't think so.
Viewed at 100%, yes because the images are different sizes.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Mikehit said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...


To get maximum benefit for the higher resolution, you have to keep your camera more steady. At the same level of vibration, a 5DSR will not be worse than a 5DIII, but you will not (necessarily) benefit from the extra resolution.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


2x64GB 1066x Lexar is currently on offer for $109 at B&H. Canon's decision to keep CF is a clearly positive.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Hey dilbert, do SD cards go on sale "for cheap prices"? Must be old technology. Is the market for those shrinking, too? Your favorite camera, the Pentax K1, uses SD cards. Oh, and it's UHS-I, not -II...and here I thought you said the camera was so advanced. :


----------



## George D. (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

If that's the new EOS 5D Mk.xx logo it's aesthetically unpleasant. All this lettering, the opposite of frugal. 

Of course, eliminating the separate Mark xx badge saves a few pennies and minutes in production line but elegance is more important. Change it!


----------



## TAF (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications and Image*



H. Jones said:


> I also notice immediately the new ridge that surrounds the prism-- this makes sense to me, since this would possibly be a non-magnesium alloy part of the frame, allowing GPS and wi-fi built-in without a GPS bump. This is another small feature that I doubt someone would fake, since the obvious thing would be for a faker to just throw the GPS bump on a 5D body.




Surely the larger "pentaprism" housing was necessary to contain the super fast EVF, and this a mirrorless...


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Dont fantasize into my comments...

What triggered my comment was a statement essentially suggesting cameras should use CF cards until they die, because users don't want to buy new tech cards. And I stick to my viewpoint that this is a BS statement, because it inevitably leads to a limitation of technical development. 

Let me know if you disagree.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



romanr74 said:


> What triggered my comment was a statement essentially suggesting cameras should use CF cards until they die, because users don't want to buy new tech cards. And I stick to my viewpoint that this is a BS statement, because it inevitably leads to a limitation of technical development.
> 
> Let me know if you disagree.



Oh, I didn't realize you took a statement by dilbert as a realistic or plausible viewpoint. My bad...or yours.


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

How it all moves on lol








Eventually!!


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > What triggered my comment was a statement essentially suggesting cameras should use CF cards until they die, because users don't want to buy new tech cards. And I stick to my viewpoint that this is a BS statement, because it inevitably leads to a limitation of technical development.
> ...



I took it as a viewpoint - I didn't say realistic nor plausible, but BS!


----------



## zim (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

7+ fps and a decent buffer on a 30mp sensor then CF cards, good job Canon


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Well I'd have been gutted to ditch all my old out of date CF cards and buy a whole bundle of Cfast cards, also I enjoy the SD card slot as its handy just to chuck it in my Mac and transfer the images quick and easy while out and about, tbh I find the combo of CF and SD works very well for me, I hope to CF when shooting action etc and use the SD card for all my other work.. So im my case I am happy, NOT that I will upgrade my 5D3 unless much better noise control and more DR. I wanted a 1DX2 but threw the cash onto a new Mk2 500 as I felt the 1DX2 was not enough of an upgrade from the Mk1, keen to see that spec of the Mk4 when it arrives, that I will lose much sleep over it haha

Mind you this whole debate could be rubbish, it's only over when the fat lady sings.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



romanr74 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > romanr74 said:
> ...



Well then, we certainly agree!


----------



## tron (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> 7+ fps and a decent buffer on a 30mp sensor then CF cards, good job Canon


Do we know that for sure? I would love it too...


----------



## FEBS (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dolina said:


> Shipping to happen by December. If Customs keeps it at the pier it will come out January.



I had last week info that 5D4 will be deliverable in September 2016. Seems to be the only info that Canon was prepared to give at that moment.


----------



## jebrady03 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Eldar said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



This post and the one before it are exactly what I was getting at, Sir Dilbert.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Canon Rumors said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



why did you have to take the image down from this post?


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

It's almost humorous that there is a website dedicated to "Canon Rumors", yet it doesn't actually have any genuinely useful information relating to a Canon camera being announced in a couple of weeks (granted, this website was able to tell us *when* the camera will be released). 

Tell us about the DR improvements of the 5DIV! Will it have eye control focus or auto AFMA? Hybrid viewfinder? Built in RT? This is the sort of information we need! If you can't get real info on products Canon are soon to release, then why run a website called Canon Rumors? Perhaps, "guesswork and info found from other parts of the web relating to Canon products" would be a more appropriate title. 

Also, these people complaining about the (lack of) video features..BUY A VIDEO CAMERA!


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> That point is when the capacity and/or speed of the recording media becomes a limitation. That was true for the 1D X II for CF, but if it's not the case for the 5DIV, then changing format just for the sake of it becomes a needless additional expense for buyers.



This. 

Sales is about solving a problem for the client not creating one. If the client has to think about anything other than how this product will help them you are just giving them excuses not to buy. 

CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards. 

As for the specs, bring it on! If these are true, and if there is illuminated AF points in servo I can't see myself not buying this body as soon as I can afford it.


----------



## raptor3x (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



kevl said:


> CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards.



From a stills point of view, sure, but for those who would use the body for video I think the lack of CFast is a major disappointment.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> It's almost humorous that there is a website dedicated to "Canon Rumors", yet it doesn't actually have any genuinely useful information relating to a Canon camera being announced in a couple of weeks (granted, this website was able to tell us *when* the camera will be released).
> 
> Tell us about the DR improvements of the 5DIV! Will it have eye control focus or auto AFMA? Hybrid viewfinder? Built in RT? This is the sort of information we need! If you can't get real info on products Canon are soon to release, then why run a website called Canon Rumors? Perhaps, "guesswork and info found from other parts of the web relating to Canon products" would be a more appropriate title.



Rumor (noun): a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.

Perhaps you should be visiting a site titled "leaked internal specifications from canon."

Why you "need" that info now rather than when canon issues a press release is beyond me.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> It's almost humorous that there is a website dedicated to "Canon Rumors", yet it doesn't actually have any genuinely useful information relating to a Canon camera being announced in a couple of weeks (granted, this website was able to tell us *when* the camera will be released).
> 
> Tell us about the DR improvements of the 5DIV! Will it have eye control focus or auto AFMA? Hybrid viewfinder? Built in RT? This is the sort of information we need! If you can't get real info on products Canon are soon to release, then why run a website called Canon Rumors? Perhaps, "guesswork and info found from other parts of the web relating to Canon products" would be a more appropriate title.
> 
> Also, these people complaining about the (lack of) video features..BUY A VIDEO CAMERA!



well duh.. you report rumors as they come in .. what do you expect?

also .. it's not as if canon ever would have the DR on spec sheets.. so how would someone know? even if it's announced we won't know.


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards.
> ...



Given the video specs listed above how exactly would adding CFast cards to the body help you or lessen your disappointment? 

You can be disappointed about the specs they chose to hit, but it doesn't make sense to be bothered by a lack of CFast cards that would not benefit ANY user of a camera with those specs...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards.
> ...



How do you figure that?

5DIV (rumored) specs
• 24/30fps @ 4K
• 60fps @ 1080
• 120fps @ 720

1D X II specs
• 24/30/50/60fps @ 4K
• 120fps @ 1080

A fast CF will do fine with 30fps @ 4K or 60fps @ 1080, so it would seem the only way the 5DIV's use of CF is a 'major disappointment' for video shooters is if you assume Canon would have given the 5DIV the same video specs as the 1D X II if only they'd put a CFast slot in the 5DIV. Is that what you're suggesting? If so, it's time for you to submit your travel visa application to dilbertland...


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*


Why you "need" that info now rather than when canon issues a press release is beyond me.
[/quote]

Every single person who visits this website wants that information


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards.
> ...



Go buy a video camera. Enough choice out there. I am sick and tired of video users whimpering about video features on DSLR. It is a mirrorslapper. By its very nature it is geared towards stills capture and not well suited to capture [serious] video. 

I also do like combination of CF + SD. Just hoping the SD-slot is UHS II on the 5D4 ... not again a card slot that slows camera down as on 5D3.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Every single person who visits this website wants that information



Yah, but you said "need"



One may need that info when time comes to make a purchase decision, but by then it will be officially announced (except deep internal info like dynamic range). For now, we merely want to talk about it on a non-authoritative rumor discussion site.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Every single person who visits this website wants that information



Well, no. I visit this website (a lot, in case you haven't noticed), and I have no need or desire to know, beyond idle curiosity. 

But...what would you do with the information if you had it today? Buy the camera that's not available? Buy another camera that is available instead, that you need so urgently you can't wait a few weeks? Or just whine and complain based on certainty rather than speculation?


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > It's almost humorous that there is a website dedicated to "Canon Rumors", yet it doesn't actually have any genuinely useful information relating to a Canon camera being announced in a couple of weeks (granted, this website was able to tell us *when* the camera will be released).
> ...



The trouble with DR as a spec is if you measure DR to international standards the review sites call bullshit saying the lowest few stops are not 'usable'. Whereas if you measure the DR the same as a review site does it is subjective, they choose the noise floor value so it isn't consistent or necessarily relevant for your uses.


----------



## raptor3x (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



kevl said:


> Given the video specs listed above how exactly would adding CFast cards to the body help you or lessen your disappointment?
> 
> You can be disappointed about the specs they chose to hit, but it doesn't make sense to be bothered by a lack of CFast cards that would not benefit ANY user of a camera with those specs...





neuroanatomist said:


> How do you figure that?
> 
> 5DIV (rumored) specs
> • 24/30fps @ 4K
> ...



Because there's a very decent chance that the reason the specs are so limited is because of the CF limitation (more likely lower specs chosen first for product differentation and then CF used as a result of lower specs but same result). For the given specs of the 5DIV then CF will be fine, but I suspect many of the video people (of which I am not one) were hoping for the video features of the 1DXII in a cheaper 5D style body. In addition, lack of CFast means a hard limit on potential for ML RAW down the road.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Card speed is also important for when you are reading images from the card and onto your computer.



Yes, because the time to transfer a set of RAW images with a CF card and a fast reader (eSATA, USB3, FW800) is such a large fraction of the time it takes to process the RAW images, if you don't really give a crap about effectively processing your images. I hear that is often the case...in dilbertland.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> For the given specs of the 5DIV then CF will be fine, but I suspect many of the video people (of which I am not one) were hoping for the video features of the 1DXII in a cheaper 5D style body.



Well, many people are probably hoping that Canon decides to sell the 5DIV for $1500, or better yet gives them away for free. It must hurt when reality slaps you in the face... :


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> Because there's a very decent chance that the reason the specs are so limited is because of the CF limitation. For the given specs of the 5DIV then CF will be fine, but I suspect many of the video people (of which I am not one) were hoping for the video features of the 1DXII in a cheaper 5D style body.



What?! You really think that ceteris paribus the specs would be magically better if only Canon were to include a CFast slot? Either you engineer the whole camera (sensor, bus, buffer, image processor, I/O processor, heat sink, etc) to support the bandwidth of CFast, accepting that the MSRP will be whatever, or you design the hardware to match the predefined price point, in which case CFast is unnecessary.


----------



## raptor3x (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > For the given specs of the 5DIV then CF will be fine, but I suspect many of the video people (of which I am not one) were hoping for the video features of the 1DXII in a cheaper 5D style body.
> ...



I left it out in the first version of the post but CF is also a major limiter to MagicLantern development. The 5D3 is already capable of 4K RAW except that the CF simply don't have the bandwidth to support it. The 1DXii could obviously support such development but Canon has made it very clear that the ML folks are not to touch the 1D series else they face legal consequences. I don't disagree with you that expecting all the video features of the 1DXii but at half the price may not be realistic, but then again Sony is offering something close to that already with the A7Sii and A7Rii and I would be surprised if they don't add 4k/60p to their next generation. Finally just because the 5D4 specs say it does 4k @ 24/30 fps doesn't necessarily mean it will have anywhere near the bit rate of the 1DXii. We'll have to wait until we have more information before we can make any sort of real assessment.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Just tossing it out there that cost for cfast will not go down and match the cost of CF like everyone seems to think here, not for a long long time. there just aren't enough devises out on the market that create demand for cfast, which means production won't upscale and without that, cfast stays at lower production levels and carries a higher cost. In 5 years this may change, well, in 5 years this will change but in 5 years we'll have the 5dmk5 and 1dx3 and 5ds2.

One thing to note as a definite stumbling block here --- SD is universal, you can use it in pentax, sony, panosonic, olympus, nikon. CF is used in most of these too, but, when it comes to the next level, there is the nikon canon split with cfast and xqd. if and when xqd fails and nikon adopts cfast for their d* series bodies (and maybe even D8**) then maybe that could help ramp up demand which will mean ramped up production ----then you get less cost. But hell, the d750 only uses SD cards, and most to all mass market consumer products are also using SD. 

And so the old adage remains - if it ain't broke don't fix it. CF is perfectly fine for most to all needs of most 5d series users. Cfast on the other hand, it's a gamble. It's odd because on some fronts we have ---bigger = better, more mpix and 4k or it's not worth watching, but, on the other hand we have a culture that wants smaller, more internet sharing friendly formats. Even video on my 3 year old phone is too big to post to facebook without being mashed to bits - why is this something that matters? Well, where does the consumer video market go? Are people in that segment screaming for video that is only shown via projector, huge, home cinema style 100" televisions with 10k res???? Or, are they looking for net sharing, phone and tablet viewing. If it's the latter, then cfast will move to more and more consumer products (this will drop the price). If it's the former though, then cfast, xqd, and CF get crushed by the smallest, cheapest, most universal and (IMO) crapiest formate --- SD.

Last statement, totally agree with neuro on the point that adding cfast to the 5d4, for a huge part of it's potential userbase is just adding extra cost for no real world gain. The only segment that cfast helps is video folks. On the still shooter side, unless your shooting fast action, you rarely ever find situations where you couldve gotten that shot if only you had faster memory cards. I miss more due to slow flash recycle time, lol. All cfast does for a still shooter like me is add an extra $600 or so to the cost of the system. That comes with absulutely no gain. I'd rather spend that $600 on advertising, flash modifiers, beer and whiskey....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Sharlin said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > Because there's a very decent chance that the reason the specs are so limited is because of the CF limitation. For the given specs of the 5DIV then CF will be fine, but I suspect many of the video people (of which I am not one) were hoping for the video features of the 1DXII in a cheaper 5D style body.
> ...



Well, yeah...if you want to use logic and reason. But, "We all wanted 1-series features for a 5-series price and it would have been so easy for Canon to do that but they didn't becuase they want to screw us and they're evil bastards who are headed for corporate failure and bankruptcy," sound so much better, right?


----------



## raptor3x (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Sharlin said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > Because there's a very decent chance that the reason the specs are so limited is because of the CF limitation. For the given specs of the 5DIV then CF will be fine, but I suspect many of the video people (of which I am not one) were hoping for the video features of the 1DXII in a cheaper 5D style body.
> ...



See the edit; what I meant was that the lack of CFast really signals that the 5D4 will simply be less of a video camera than the 1DXii. That said, the 5D3 is capable of supporting much much higher bit rates than the vanilla camera provides and is really limited by the CF slot so your silly scenario actually does have historical precedence.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> I left it out in the first version of the post but CF is also a major limiter to MagicLantern development.



Does Canon care?


----------



## raptor3x (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > I left it out in the first version of the post but CF is also a major limiter to MagicLantern development.
> ...



Does Canon like selling cameras to video people?


----------



## fegari (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

C'mon, 5 pages already of debate of CF o Cfast...how about disecting another less boring topic?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> it doesn't change the fact that pixel size is related to how much shake the image sensor can tolerate before the image "blurs." Nobody is going to stop you or anyone else down sizing images to minimize visible blur.



Please can you show me two photos comparing the blur on a 5D3 and a 5DS where camera shake is more apparent in two images _of the same output dimensions_. 

If camera shake occurs and causes (pulling number out of the air) 20microns of blurring on the sensor, why would the higher MP camera make that blur any bigger or more obvious? Scientific explanations welcome.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



Does Canon believe that ML helps camera sales?


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



George D. said:


> If that's the new EOS logo it's aesthetically unpleasant.



Not that's its important - but you're absolutely right... (if its the case).


----------



## raptor3x (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



That I couldn't say, but their tacit approval of ML development on the 5-series suggests that at the very least they do not believe it to be hurting sales.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


Expecting Canon to make design decision based on what non-Canon entities can do to their product is probably not what I would call realistic ...

To me, the CF choice is a positive one. CF cards are getting cheap, they are rock solid and we already have a heap of them. I don´t care about video and the only reason to go CFast is +30fps 4k, which was unrealistic in the first place, because it would hurt 1DX-II sales (to some extent at least). The good news (I hope) is that we should see significant sensor performance improvements. I am perfectly happy to live with 5DIII functionality, if I could get a better sensor. And, I am curious to what the "first for a Canon DSLR" thing is.

However, I am currently not on the buyer´s list for this camera though. With the 1DX-II/5DSR combo, I do not see how the 5DIV could add much value, unless we get DR and low light performance beyond expectation.


----------



## sigh (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by the alleged lack of CFast but then, as many have pointed out, it's not necessarily required based on the specs we have here.

Of course, there might be a very good reason for the lack of CFast. Would any video shooters object if the 5D4 only did 4k @ 30fps internally but did 4k @ 60fps to an external recorder? The 1DXII is limited to 1080p over HDMI, but I see no reason Canon would not give the 5D4 the advantage here.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Mikehit said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > it doesn't change the fact that pixel size is related to how much shake the image sensor can tolerate before the image "blurs." Nobody is going to stop you or anyone else down sizing images to minimize visible blur.
> ...



In fact as dpreview has shown the picture taken with a 5DS/R will always have at least a little less blur than the 5DIII because of the better dampening of the shutter mechanism (if shooting at speeds <1/125 - where blur normally occurs). And somewhat better blur if shooting the 5DS/R in its silent mode.

Anyway...

30 MPIX is just the greatest news for me when it comes to the 5DIV. I just hope and trust it will have the improved mirror-system of the 5DS/R to reduce internal blur. Its a joy to use for everyday shooting. And very useful for those wanting to get more out of the 5DS/R *all the time*.


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



a large proportion of prospective 5d4 buyers are well equipped with CF cards. they do not want to be forced to buy new cards. and they should not be forced to. Cfast has a major problem, because they it is not backwards compatible to CF cards. SD is .. any newer SD-slot also works with all previous generations of SD cards. 

personally i am looking forward to a compact EOS "M4 Pro" with dual micro-SD slots, UHS II of course. 
unfortunately stupid Canon stunbornly refuses to build it.


----------



## kphristov (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Is there any chance with these specs Canon 5D4 to be better than Sony A7r II in video?
Don't get me wrong, i know there is only rumors at the moment, but i want a camera close to Sony A7R2,good enough for photography and video in the same time.

Sorry for my English dudes.
Thanks


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Still on the CFast debate? Sheesh! The rumored specs don't need CFast. Period. Canon is not going to unnecessarily inject anything inot this new product that would be perceived by their market as a barrier to entry/upgrade! Simple business 101. 

If Canon felt the demand from their largest core market/user base for a specific feature (like, say 60fps in 4k) was so high, then they would take the extra risk of forcing a new (and very expensive) media format into that market. But, obviously they don't see it. Would have personally liked the higher frame rates in video on this camera? YES. But clearly there aren't enough like me for Canon to have warranted doing that without making me jump up to a 1DX2, which I can otherwise justify for fast action stills.

I have a feeling once the official specs are out, I'll be keeping my 5D3 for everyday generic studio workhorse because the resolution for that is just fine at 22MP. For the higher end custom portrait work, I have my 5DSR. Then I'll buy a 1DX2 for all my dance action work and have the high frame rates for video of dance as well. 

Canon can't make a one size fits all camera for $2800 like some of you seem to want. I'd like that too, but I live in reality here. It's not always easy or fun, but it is what it is and the 5D4 will be an excellent camera for it's intended purpose.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Nothing is known yet for certain except for Canon having superior build quality, reliability, battery life, and lack of over-heating issues.




kphristov said:


> Is there any chance with these specs Canon 5D4 to be better than Sony A7r II in video?
> Don't get me wrong, i know there is only rumors at the moment, but i want a camera close to Sony A7R2,good enough for photography and video in the same time.
> 
> Sorry for my English dudes.
> Thanks


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



AvTvM said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



I'm sure if you provide them the NRE they'd happily build you one. What are you waiting for?


----------



## gsealy (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



sigh said:


> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by the alleged lack of CFast but then, as many have pointed out, it's not necessarily required based on the specs we have here.
> 
> Of course, there might be a very good reason for the lack of CFast. Would any video shooters object if the 5D4 only did 4k @ 30fps internally but did 4k @ 60fps to an external recorder? The 1DXII is limited to 1080p over HDMI, but I see no reason Canon would not give the 5D4 the advantage here.



That's fine by me. I already do that with the 5DIII. External recording would also mean a better codec than Motion JPG. We'll see, but I don't expect it.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

If the 5D4 could sling a higher frame out to an external like an Atomos or Odyssey, that would probably make the video crowd pretty happy. Personally I'd rather video with a 5 body than a 1body just because of the bulk and weight. That would also be a fair tradeoff from 1DX2 specs which can do 120fps internally. No 4k output though. The DX2 can't even do that.



gsealy said:


> sigh said:
> 
> 
> > I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by the alleged lack of CFast but then, as many have pointed out, it's not necessarily required based on the specs we have here.
> ...


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Personally, I have a camera to print at a specific size. You seem to be admitting that print at 12x8 or 20x12 the 5DS will show no greater camera shake. Print at 40x30 and the 5DS will still show more detail because of more pixels overriding the camera shake. 
So where is this fabled 'camera shake more obvious with a 5DS'? Under what circumstances will having a 5DS be detrimental to image quality?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

By the way, if some of you are getting this pissed off over CFast ... just wait til they confirm no DPAF ;D


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...



except some forget that the 1dx Mark II has a bitching huge heatsink and a massive freaking battery to do 4K at those speeds.

but yes, it's all on the CFast card


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I don't mind dropping 2 large on 4 x Cfast cards. If I can shoot and deliver more images then it's worth every penny.

The 5D is a pro body for professionals and they make their money using it. This is different from enthusiasts who shoot for fun but use a pro body. We shouldn't be limited by Canon catering for the non pro segment using a pro product.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



wockawocka said:


> I don't mind dropping 2 large on 4 x Cfast cards. If I can shoot and deliver more images then it's worth every penny.
> 
> The 5D is a pro body for professionals and they make their money using it. This is different from enthusiasts who shoot for fun but use a pro body. We shouldn't be limited by Canon catering for the non pro segment using a pro product.



how would it deliver more images?

The 5d Mark III already had a nearly 40 RAW buffer depth. how much do you really need?

what it needs to do is fix the SD bottleneck.


----------



## midluk (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



wockawocka said:


> The 5D is a pro body for professionals and they make their money using it. This is different from enthusiasts who shoot for fun but use a pro body. We shouldn't be limited by Canon catering for the non pro segment using a pro product.


Do you know how big or small the fraction of 5D bodies being bought by enthusiasts is? I guess it is big enough for Canon to care.
Professionals are likely even more price sensitive than enthusiasts. They have to be profitable while enthusiasts don't.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > I don't mind dropping 2 large on 4 x Cfast cards. If I can shoot and deliver more images then it's worth every penny.
> ...



No, there's _definitely_ nothing preventing the 5D4 from having an 1DX2-like performance except Canon deciding to artificially add a bottleneck by not putting a CFast slot in it. Stupid Canon :


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



rrcphoto said:


> except some forget that the 1dx Mark II has a bitching huge heatsink and a massive freaking battery to do 4K at those speeds.
> 
> but yes, it's all on the CFast card



Excellent point.


----------



## tron (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> By the way, if some of you are getting this pissed off over CFast ... just wait til they confirm no DPAF ;D


Oh NO! I used to not taking videos using manual foccusing. I was only hoping to get used to not taking videos using AF... ;D


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



midluk said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D is a pro body for professionals and they make their money using it. This is different from enthusiasts who shoot for fun but use a pro body. We shouldn't be limited by Canon catering for the non pro segment using a pro product.
> ...



I'd bet real money that more 'enthusiasts' than 'professionals' buy 5-series cameras. I'd even argue that could be true for the 1-series as well, if you compare individual purchases (rather than bulk 'news agency' orders, although those are certainly diminishing as on-staff news photographers follow in the footsteps of the dodo).

FWIW, the US BLS indicates that there are currently ~125,000 professional photographers in the US.


----------



## fegari (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Mikehit said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



forget trying to convince the crowd that more mpxls DO NOT CREATE more blur or difraction...both are already there independently of the sensor mpxls, they depende in other more fundamental factors (lens, focal used, shutter speed etc..) , what people seem to believe is that more mpx will produce blur or more difraction, they do not, more Mpxls only ALLOW you to see it more IF you display at 1:1 size.

It's like someone with foggy glasses complaining they now see more of the reality in front of their eyes when they put on contact lenses...

Displayed/printed at the same SIZE, the photo from the 5DS will beat the 5D3 in all the good metrics (noise, sharpness, acutance, color etc) and will not be any worse in the "bad" metrics (diffraction, blur)...those will only seem apparent when the 5DS photo is seen to 1:1, but then try to upscale the 5D3 photo to 2:1 (to comapre apples with apples) and the 5D3 pic quality will fall apart and on top of it, it'll show the same "blur" than the 5DS...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



fegari said:


> forget trying to convince the crowd that more mpxls DO NOT CREATE more blur or difraction...both are already there independently of the sensor mpxls, they depende in other more fundamental factors (lens, focal used, shutter speed etc..) , what people seem to believe is that more mpx will produce blur or more difraction, they do not, more Mpxls only ALLOW you to see it more IF you display at 1:1 size.
> 
> It's like someone with foggy glasses complaining they now see more of the reality in front of their eyes when they put on contact lenses...
> 
> Displayed/printed at the same SIZE, the photo from the 5DS will beat the 5D3 in all the good metrics (noise, sharpness, acutance, color etc) and will not be any worse in the "bad" metrics (diffraction, blur)...those will only seem apparent when the 5DS photo is seen to 1:1, but then try to upscale the 5D3 photo to 2:1 (to comapre apples with apples) and the 5D3 pic quality will fall apart and on top of it, it'll show the same "blur" than the 5DS...



YES!
which is why i wait for the 120MP 5Ds Mark II in 2018.


----------



## East Wind Photography (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

If 4k is correct, I expect it to be highly compressed in order to meet the CF buss speed requirements. I don't expect this to be very impressive, just a capability for the casual event photographer. It may even be limited in duration due to heat dissipation issues. We'll see...


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



rrcphoto said:


> YES!
> which is why i wait for the 120MP 5Ds Mark II in 2018.



2018 is optimistic. But I'll join you when it happens!


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Maiaibing said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > YES!
> ...



canon stated in sept 2015 that it is in development in an official press announcement. A 1 series camera takes 3 years to fully develop, so that would mean it's 2-3 years or so.


----------



## zim (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tron said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > 7+ fps and a decent buffer on a 30mp sensor then CF cards, good job Canon
> ...



Nope, pure speculation!
I should have put IF at the start of that ;D

If Canon deliver 7+ fps and a decent buffer on a 30mp sensor using existing CF Cards then using faster cards would be over design for me. We'll know more soon!


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



East Wind Photography said:


> If 4k is correct, I expect it to be highly compressed in order to meet the CF buss speed requirements. I don't expect this to be very impressive, just a capability for the casual event photographer. It may even be limited in duration due to heat dissipation issues. We'll see...



Did some back of the envelope math and I'm not sure the CF will be the limiting factor for codecs. The 4K 30fps MJPEG on the 1DX is 500Mbps or 62.5 MBps. That looks to be within the capabilities of a CF and UHS II SD Card. And if Digic 7 makes an appearance on the 5D4, that opens up the possibilities of new codecs. It looks like 4K Bluray is delivered around 108Mbps.

Does CF mean we're not going to see RAW video a la ARRI or RED? Yup. Does it mean the 5D4 be able won't deliver the same quality of a 1DX2 (albeit at a lower frame rate)? Not necessarily.

(I personally don't have an investment in CF cards, so I'm bummed that ML won't have more bandwidth available also. But there's still the possibility of 4K clean HDMI, better codecs etc…)


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



East Wind Photography said:


> If 4k is correct, I expect it to be highly compressed in order to meet the CF buss speed requirements. I don't expect this to be very impressive, just a capability for the casual event photographer. It may even be limited in duration due to heat dissipation issues. We'll see...



What, like the crappy 4k video from the 1DC? That shoots very good 4K in C-log to CF cards with no time limit.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > If 4k is correct, I expect it to be highly compressed in order to meet the CF buss speed requirements. I don't expect this to be very impressive, just a capability for the casual event photographer. It may even be limited in duration due to heat dissipation issues. We'll see...
> ...



Yeah, but that doesn't count becuase the 1D C isn't a dSLR. Just ask dilbert... :


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

The 5 series cameras are stills cameras primarily with video added. 

I don't know any local videographers who care about stills in their bodies. None of the profitable locals use anything but mirrorless cameras except the large studios using actual video cameras. 

Canon could engineer a 5D that beats current Sony and Panasonic bodies at a 3X the cost because it also has to be a great stills camera. The majority of video people would still skip the 5D. Those who have their hearts set on purchasing a 5D for video don't have Canon to blame for their frustration but their own selves. If video is your thing and you don't need a great stills camera go get a Sony or a Panasonic. You'll save a pile of money on the body and you'll be able to get a new body every year just about...

The 5D will have good video. It won't be the king of video recording. Even if it was the king of video recording the people who need great video recording still wouldn't buy it. So, it would be foolish to make the camera much more expensive for the vast majority of their purchasers (not forum commenters) by including things like CFast and 60FPS 4K. 

A hobbyist might buy a 5D do 4K video primarily, but no business is going to. As was pointed out above a business has to be profitable. 

Adding CFast to the 5D4 and even 60FPS 4K would not help Canon's sales. It would drive the cost of ownership up for all their clients and only provide an extra incentive to a TINY minority of potential buyers. Then next week Sony would release another 3 new bodies that do the same thing for 1/3rd the price.... 

Let's live in reality.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> Let's live in reality.



I believe your suggestion is somewhat antithetical around here...


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > Let's live in reality.
> ...



Oops.


----------



## Etienne (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> By the way, if some of you are getting this pissed off over CFast ... just wait til they confirm no DPAF ;D



It's likely to have DPAF; leaving it out would be a bonehead move. It's in all their recent release cameras: 80D, 7DII, 1Dx II, C100 II, C300 II. DPAF is one of Canon's biggest differentiators. 
If it does have DPAF I'll probably upgrade my 5D3. No DPAF, and I'll be saving US$3300


----------



## hubie (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Oh, more touchscreen functionality is sold as a feature.
There is literally no excuse for Canon not at least leaving it to the owner to decide wether or not you want cut or full touchscreen functionality on your 6k $ camera body...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



RickSpringfield said:


> 30 MP seems too low. I'm thinking it will still be higher. Also thought that image on Northlight looks photoshopped (its all blocky when you blow it way up):
> http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/camera_images_8/Canon/5d4/5d4.jpg
> 
> Still really hoping for some unexpected goodness with regard to speed, WiFi, 4k @60, card types, and edging up to ~36MP. Given that this camera has to last 3-4 years without a replacement I'm not sure the camera will hold up.



while the lettering may look wrong, there is no other camera body that has that pentaprism housing, shape and also joints.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Etienne said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, if some of you are getting this pissed off over CFast ... just wait til they confirm no DPAF ;D
> ...



I argued about this with PureClassA earlier -- apparently the 5D4 won't have DPAF, Canon's killer feature, unlike literally every other recent enthusiast-and-above Canon camera, because it would eat into the 1DX2 sales. I guess the 5D4 will instead inherit the Hybrid AF system from the Rebels :


----------



## applecider (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Running the image from north light through fotoforensics reveals that the canon logo and the "5D mark iv" areas are heavily photoshopped as is the watermark.

At least that's how I interpret it.


----------



## brianftpc (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

It will have DPAF or Canon would not have gone out of their way to keep everything about this camera a secret for so long. They wanted to sell as many 1Dx mk2s as they could before letting that spec leak. I do not see the 6D mk2 having it however. If this camera does not have DPAF then they have eliminated a lot pf people's reson to upgrade from the 5D mk3 bc Im pretty sure when it comes to the pictures you will visibly see zero improvement in ISO performance. If people want more megapixels they will buy a 5DsR


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



applecider said:


> Running the image from north light through fotoforensics reveals that the canon logo and the "5D mark iv" areas are heavily photoshopped as is the watermark.
> 
> At least that's how I interpret it.



Not necessarily, that might just be jpeg artifacts from the previous saves and EXIF strips. The pentaprism, which would lose next to nothing in compression and isn't like any other pentaprism shows no modifications.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I didn't realize you were arguing. I wasn't. Just expressing my gut feeling about where this will be based on how I've perceived Canon to operate. I hope I'm wrong about DPAF not being there, but I dont think I will be. If the rumors were suggesting a 24MP sensor instead of 30, I'd be more inclined to buy it since they have a 20 and 24MP crop DPAF. Now we have a 20 FF DPAF in the 1DX2. A 24MP FF DPAF would make sense in a 5D4. But now we're talking 30MP. We will know one way or another in the next couple weeks. 



Sharlin said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Not it.
"Cable release port moved to the front of the camera where the “Mark XX” badge was."
If so, we have no photo of the new body.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



KeithBreazeal said:


> Not it.
> "Cable release port moved to the front of the camera where the “Mark XX” badge was."
> If so, we have no photo of the new body.



?? ???

As was pointed out earlier, the 'Mark xx' badge is currently at the bottom front, so moving that labeling to the top front just under the EOS badge is entirely consistent.


----------



## weilin (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > Not it.
> ...



He's referencing the picture used as the "thumbnail" for this news post (obvious photoshop). I don't think he saw the actual photo in the article as you had to expand the article on the front page to see the actual link to the leaked image...


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

You know what's funny? For years we've been reading about how Canon is going to go under because the Nikon D800-onward has had 36MP and Canon only had 22.... 

NOW Canon is going to go under because they might release a 30MP camera and that will destroy image quality because of camera shake.... you know the thing no Nikon shooter I know complains about? Camera shake in their images. 

I'm just not concerned. I will be strive to be even more careful when I shoot with it, but the reality is that I'll still be getting amazing photos just like I do now.


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> I was quite happy using floppy disks but someone took away the floppy disk drives *cry*



Please explain how the difference between a floppy disk (8" 5.25" or 3.5" take your pick) and a USB drive, or rewriteable CD (either of which could be argued to be a direct replacement) is the same or even similar to the difference between a CF card and a CFast card. You're just being silly. 



> Neither is XQD backward compatible with anything else nor do SATA plugs go into PATA sockets, PCIe cards into PCI slots and so on. That's technology.



If there is an advantage to adopting new technology that outweighs the cost of doing so then it makes sense to do so. If there is not, it does not. As has been discussed for about 8 pages, there is no advantage to the 5D purchaser to put CFast cards in the 5DIV. 



> SD suffers from the same disease as CF: slowness.



My Hyundai Elantra is slower than a Porche. I wonder how Hyundai stays in business... 

Hint the Elantra can exceed the speeds the roads in Canada are designed for already so a Porche is purchased for other reasons such as compensating for endowment.


----------



## fegari (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> fegari said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...




No, I was not at all confusing general blur (from out of focus regions) with blur induced by shake. 

To your second argument
"Smaller pixels increases the risk of a blurry subject being captured rather than a sharp subject as a result of camera movement during the time of exposure"

=>No one is disputing that but that is only "perceibable" in the 5DS if you display at 1:1 and there is zero difference if you print or display at same screen size (which is how you compare apples to apples for that)

The "blur smear" (and I shall point out I'm referring to "shake", just in case) has travelled and identical lenght in both sensors. Imagine it as a scratch in your sensor: when you see the sensor with your naked eye (analogue to the print or display size) it will measure exactly the same lenght in both sensors. Now put those two sensors under a microscope and that same scrath covers -let's imagine an arbitrary scratch lenght of 10 pixels in the 5D3 but 20 pixels in the 5DS, meaning it will not be seen "worse" in the 5DS unless you crop the hell out of the 5DS photos, which again is not how you compare this kind of thing.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> fegari said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Fegari is quite manifestly describing motion blur and/or camera shake. *Dilbert*, as a general rule in any discussion where someone is confused about something, the someone who is confused is always *you*.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



PureClassA said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > except some forget that the 1dx Mark II has a bitching huge heatsink and a massive freaking battery to do 4K at those speeds.
> ...



This is a good point and one I hadn't thought about, but I do know this: whenever I pull a CFast card out of the card reader I'm amazed at how hot that sucker is.


----------



## jonneymendoza (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

to reduce blurry shots on a 5dsr, it should have had built in IS


----------



## unfocused (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



hubie said:


> Oh, more touchscreen functionality is sold as a feature.
> There is literally no excuse for Canon not at least leaving it to the owner to decide wether or not you want cut or full touchscreen functionality on your 6k $ camera body...



Could not agree more. No reason not to have full touchscreen capability on the 1D x II, given that the hardware is already baked into the camera. Canon needs to offer this as a firmware option.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> You're confusing general blur (from out of focus regions) with blur induced by shake.
> 
> What I'm talking about is the reason Canon is putting IS in its lenses and other companies put IBIS in cameras.
> 
> ...



[1] you are confusing reducing a problem (that I do not believe exists) with aiming to get the best possible quality out of an expensive camera. Not taking full precautions to remove camera shake risks reducing the Phase 1 to little more than a 30MP DSLR. Taking all precautions makes the Phase One vastly superior regards image quality. Big difference in the two propositions. 
Putting cheap tyres on a Ferrari does not make it worse than a Skoda, but it reduces the difference between them.

[2] I agree. But linear distance covered by the blur covers the same distance on both sensors (assuming same sensor size and same lens is used). And if the sensors are the same size, that blur covers the same distance on prints of equal size. 
Please explain why it is not the case.


----------



## AWR (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

kevl talking pile of s....
You don't know what you are saying.

5D II and III have benefited greatly from their video capabilities.
Sticking with CF will end that.

Every other choice has better options. As said, if you are Stills Only, then it's okay to you, but I, among many have not only chosen 5D3 for what it is, but for what Magic Lantern did turn it into.

And If kevl would understand ML, then he wouldn't say silly things like that.

For long time, biggest problem for ML has been CF cards data handling limitations.
Not all 4K is good 4K. Canon will without a doubt give us sorry codec from 2010 to protect C100II and the rest.
And yes C100II and 1DXII both have silly codec to protect C300II. Competition has outrun all of these. Because the pricing. And silly codecs. Also many are still stunned about ME SH200S (or what ever) kind of products, when people are running for FS5 RAW.

Magic Lantern and DPAF, those two and skin colors, there's the only things keeping video people on 5DIV. And now it seems Canon is hurting ML with lack of proper modern media like CFast.

Leaving DPAF out would be suicide, that wont happen.

But we saw this coming. And If Sony can finally make sense with their colors, it's gonna be bad times ahead for Canon video.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

What is with all this blurry shot stuff?

I put a lot of stock in real user experience, and I have not seen a lot of complaints from actual 5D s owners.

I can understand concerns about 30mp for the following reasons:

High ISO performance: Will there be sacrifices in High ISO performance with a 30mp DPAF sensor (I can't imagine the 5DIV NOT being DPAF)? If the 1Dx went from 18 to 20 mp DPAF with little improvement in high ISO performance, it's hard to imagine that the 5DIV will see much improvement in high ISO performance going from the same generation (as the 1Dx) 22 mp sensor to the same generation (as the 1Dx II) 30 mp DPAF sensor. 

Storage and editing: This has been debated ad infinitum. Not going to start up that debate again, but it is certainly legitimate for people not to want to see their file sizes increased by nearly 50% unless there is a distinct benefit to the larger file sizes, and for many if not most users, it's unlikely to be the case. This is more of an issue for users (like myself) who use and preserve multiple layers in Photoshop (so I can go back and re-edit later if needed), since each layer is going to increase the file size.

Just me, but it seems like the blurry picture argument is the least legitimate concern about a 30 mp sensor.


----------



## midluk (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> fegari said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


I think this is the important point.

If you want more pixels, you likely have a use case for looking at them at 1:1.
If you don't look at the images at 1:1 anyway, smaller files with fewer pixels are much easier to handle and you should not argue for more pixels.

If your images are not sharp on the pixel level because of camera shake, but only appear sharp when you resize them 2:1, you are better off with fewer original pixels in the first place.


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



In other words the differences between them are not at all similar to the differences between CFast and CF cards. Hint the ONLY differences between CFast and CF cards are form factor, speed, and price. None of which could help the 5D purchaser. 



> > If there is an advantage to adopting new technology that outweighs the cost of doing so then it makes sense to do so. If there is not, it does not. As has been discussed for about 8 pages, there is no advantage to the 5D purchaser to put CFast cards in the 5DIV.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No that is not what I wrote. You are not rephrasing it you are creating a strawman to burn while avoiding the fact stated. Other than that you did really really good. Very convincing.... 



> At some point in time I fully expect that it will be cheaper for Canon to design in and support CFast than it will be for CF. Whether that comes before or after the performance requirements push the camera there is another thing.



Whoa really? That's a pretty amazing prediction there buddy! You must have a special crystal ball.... #CaptainObvious 



> Why will it be cheaper, you ask?



No I didn't ask. Please quote the things I actually state and answer the questions I actually ask if you want anyone to take you seriously. 



> Because the bus used to connect to CF is no longer native to modern computer design, so extra components will be required to interface CF to the rest of the camera that would otherwise not be required for CFast.



Wowzers! You have awesome powers of understanding! #CaptainObvious 

So now that you've pulled your internet pud for a post how about you go back and actually answer the questions and deal with the point. 

Or don't.. you're not required to. There's none of them thar laws here for you to be obligated to follow.


----------



## kevl (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Does Canon need to force users to adopt a new standard that isn't compatible with the other bodies 5D purchasers are likely to own? 

Nope: http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/lexar-media-lexar-professional-cfast-2-0-64gb-525mb-s-compact-flash-memory-card-lc64gcrbna3500/10416744.aspx?path=4697c5a4fa77a56941d116745c177e92en02

3500x 445MB/s write 525MB/s read. 

There will come a day when the camera needs to do something that CF cards cannot accommodate but that day is not today. 

If you want a camera that uses CFast cards & your Canon glass this one is currently available. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1221604-REG/canon_0931c016_eos_1d_x_mark_ii.html


----------



## zim (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

OK so looks like WiFi and GPS confirmed.
No surprises there really, I do hope both can be completely switched off when not required though


----------



## Ulric Wolf (Aug 10, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > There was a great deal of consensus that something around 20MP was a sweet spot for many photographers. We've hovered around there for some time for good reason, and there was praise for Canon for resisting the temptation and pressure from the marketing dudes when the 5DIII shipped with 22MP.
> ...



Exactly. Magazines are going away, as well as every printed form of pictures (not talking about artwork). For me 30MP would be sweet spot for now, I guess it will be a must after 4 years, what is expected life circle of this camera...


----------



## pedro (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> What is with all this blurry shot stuff?
> 
> I put a lot of stock in real user experience, and I have not seen a lot of complaints from actual 5D s owners.
> 
> ...


Intresting questions...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

@kevl – the fundamental problem is that you're having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> I would expect that at 50MP you'd need to be 4x and that is where a four-stop IS lens comes into play.



It's great that IS counteracts subject motion in dilbertland. Out here in reality where the rest of us live, it doesn't work that way.


----------



## kevl (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> @kevl – the fundamental problem is that you're having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.



Which is entirely my fault...


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



dilbert said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



No it wasn't. 

It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors. The reason we demand more now is because we are making those 12" prints from ever smaller crops of that 135 format sensor size.


----------



## Act444 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Not a fan of more MP. I'd be ok with a minor bump to 24, but 30...lukewarm reaction from me, perhaps even slightly disappointed. Could even be the deal-breaker that convinces me to stick with the 5D3, but let's see final specs, reviews, test shots, etc...

The _biggest_ concern to me with more MP is high ISO performance taking a hit or remaining stagnant while higher shutter speeds are required to get sharp shots (forcing higher ISO settings in a given lighting). IF high ISO performance were improved to the point where there wouldn't be an IQ penalty for the 1/3 to 2/3 stop higher shutter speeds needed, it may be fine. While IS can help compensate when shooting still subjects, it doesn't help with subject movement (common with event shooting). (Aside: I hear people talk about the downsizing argument, but I've taken sample shots with the 5DS, took the blurry/non-sharp ones, and still wasn't happy with them downsized to 22MP...YMMV.)

File size is another consideration, demanding larger cards and more processing power.

HOWEVER - I AM encouraged at the thought of remaining with CF/SD and not forcing expensive CFast investment.


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



privatebydesign said:


> It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors.



I'm sorry, but the term "circle of confusion" is obsolete and has been replaced by "CanonRumors confusion"


----------



## Ph0t0 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > I would expect that at 50MP you'd need to be 4x and that is where a four-stop IS lens comes into play.
> ...



He is clearly talking about the rule of thumb, which was always meant to help people work out their shutter speed only when shooting still subjects. At least out here in reality where the rest of us live we never used the rule of thumb to determine shutter speeds when shooting moving subjects. But hey.. perhaps in neuroland you can use the rule of thumb to shoot race cars, people, aircraft just as well... all based just on the focal length



dilbert said:


> With film cameras, the rule of thumb was 1/focal-length


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Don Haines said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors.
> ...



Reading many of the threads on this forum and seeing how they go round and round I think the two terms are interchangeable.


----------



## gmrza (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



unfocused said:


> I have to admit I'm surprised by 30mp. I guess I am in the minority, not caring about higher mp counts. I do wonder what the high ISO performance will be like. I expect that it will match the 5D III, but may not exceed it. (Just like the 1DX and 1DX II)
> 
> Perhaps sensors have pretty much reached their upper limit on ISO and the major improvements in the next few years will be dynamic range at base ISO and increased megapixel count?
> 
> ...



In some respects more MP will mainly satisfy marketing needs. To be able to exploit that, you need the right glass. As you rightly point out, it will be interesting to see what the benefits are beyond ISO 100.
For many professional users of the 5DIII, it can produce prints (or other final images) large enough for clients. In fact we have seen the forums here mention of the 5DIII being used to produce billboard advertising.
Given that we have the 5Ds, that already satisfies the needs of genuine high MP requirements.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Ph0t0 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



He is clearly talking about something he doesn't understand. But that's the norm for dilbert.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Don Haines said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors.
> ...



Yes :

I realize this is a rumors site that predicates a lack of known facts, but the amount of time people just make shit up when trying to 'explain' to others really is depressing. We don't need to ignore facts when talking about rumors do we?


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



privatebydesign said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



At least three things remain constant...... 

First, If any given Nikon or Sony spec is bigger than the equivalent Canon spec, it means the sudden and fiery death of Canon, and if any given Nikon or Sony spec is smaller than the equivalent Canon spec, it means the sudden and fiery death of Canon..... And if they are the same, it means that Canon does not innovate and leads to the sudden and fiery death of Canon.

Second, for some inexplicable reason, despite the impending sudden and fiery death of Canon, they still outsell the competition.....

Third, it is a well known fact that Canon will not put any feature in any camera except the 1DX2 because of a plot to protect sales of the flagship model...... This in spite of the fact that it the lower models, outselling the 1DX2 by thousands of times (tens of thousands?), that keeps them profitable and the lights on at the factory and is where the new features tend to show up first........


----------



## tpatana (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I'm quite sure my still picture quality would go down if they use CF instead of CFast. 

Canon is *******.


----------



## tron (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> I'm quite sure my still picture quality would go down if they use CF instead of CFast.
> 
> Canon is *******.


And I guess this includes your previous version cameras as well ;D


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tron said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > I'm quite sure my still picture quality would go down if they use CF instead of CFast.
> ...



No, those simply just stop working when the new model comes out.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I sure hope we get some real information soon. Otherwise, this thread may set the standard for worst Canon Rumors thread ever. And, that's no small feat.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

FWIW I used to routinely use a rule of thumb for determining actual exposure time. Now that cameras have light meters, sunny 16 is less relevant.



unfocused said:


> I sure hope we get some real information soon. Otherwise, this thread may set the standard for worst Canon Rumors thread ever. And, that's no small feat.



No, but these are!


----------



## pvalpha (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I was so hoping that they were going to put out a new class of sensor this time around. Something with BSI.  The lack of cfast and only [email protected] is depressing as well. There goes my hopes for a 7D3 before the end of the decade.


----------



## davidj (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

This place is hilarious. A few months ago the 5D IV was going to be DOA because it wasn't going to have 4K. Now that 4K is confirmed, the real problem is that 30fps isn't enough. Something tells me that the internet critics will never be satisfied.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



davidj said:


> This place is hilarious. A few months ago the 5D IV was going to be DOA because it wasn't going to have 4K. Now that 4K is confirmed, the real problem is that 30fps isn't enough. Something tells me that the internet critics will never be satisfied.



It's also missing K-cup brewing system. Canon is so *******.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

my god.. the lemmings are jumping off the cliff!

If the rumor had CFAST everyone would still be bitching .. I don't want to swap all my CF cards (see all the whining on the 1Dx Mark II threads).


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > This place is hilarious. A few months ago the 5D IV was going to be DOA because it wasn't going to have 4K. Now that 4K is confirmed, the real problem is that 30fps isn't enough. Something tells me that the internet critics will never be satisfied.
> ...



you have to get a Sony for that 

The next FE mount innovation:


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Clearly, Canon is *******. So ******* in fact that I've 90% settled on buying a 1DX II. Oh but someone here said the 120fps looked like junk. Yeah, no. For those who want/need a fast action stills body like I do that can also do great (albeit perhaps not the THE best) video, I've become convinced. This link is a great short video that was done by a guy who shoots professionally with RED Cinema gear and bought the DX2 as a B cam. In a conversation I had with him tonight, he could not have been more praising of the DX2's cinematic prowess for what it is. Technical aspects of this are wonderful, and there are some very lovely ladies scantily clad in it. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H948Lq7SYbA


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > davidj said:
> ...



I hear too much DR overextracts the grounds and results in a bitter, compressed taste.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > tpatana said:
> ...



check the post again


----------



## tpatana (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> Clearly, Canon is *******. So ******* in fact that I've 90% settled on buying a 1DX II. Oh but someone here said the 120fps looked like junk. Yeah, no. For those who want/need a fast action stills body like I do that can also do great (albeit perhaps not the THE best) video, I've become convinced. This link is a great short video that was done by a guy who shoots professionally with RED Cinema gear and bought the DX2 as a B cam. In a conversation I had with him tonight, he could not have been more praising of the DX2's cinematic prowess for what it is. Technical aspects of this are wonderful, and there are some very lovely ladies scantily clad in it. Enjoy.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H948Lq7SYbA



Sweet.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> my god.. the lemmings are jumping off the cliff!
> 
> If the rumor had CFAST everyone would still be bitching .. I don't want to swap all my CF cards (see all the whining on the 1Dx Mark II threads).



I have half-dilemma there, I would have loved 1080p120, but I'd rather stay with CF. If having 120 required CFast, I'd vote for that.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> Sweet.



We certainly try our best to entertain here ;D


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > my god.. the lemmings are jumping off the cliff!
> ...



Winner winner, chicken dinner! The 5D4 in its current RUMORED flavor, does not have specs that demand the need to have CFast, which was likely a HIGHLY calculated move by Canon given their core market. If they felt 120fps at 1080p was something heavily desired, they would have perhaps calculated otherwise. In that case I would understand the CFast necessity. Let's move on from this already. I'm honestly surprised there isn't more debate on whether we will see DPAF with this camera or not. I find it very telling that not a single rumor leaked thus far has mentioned it.


----------



## davidj (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> I'm honestly surprised there isn't more debate on whether we will see DPAF with this camera or not. I find it very telling that not a single rumor leaked thus far has mentioned it.



I assumed it would have it given that even the 80D has it.


----------



## myjtp (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I was waiting for [email protected] But everything else looks to be great. I'll just have to pony up for one 1Dx2 for the slo-mo stuff and then a few 5D4s for the other angles. I think Canon played this release perfectly. Not alot of people have been able to take full advantage of 4K stuff with TVs, bandwitdh and even people's computer speed to watch 4K. Canon wasn't in a rush to put that in until they got it just right ( e.g. no overheating )


----------



## tpatana (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

DPAF is given. Leaving it out would be about as bad as removing LCD.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



davidj said:


> I assumed it would have it given that even the 80D has it.



You're not alone in that assumption. But there's a few flaws to that logic. 

The 70D came out with DPAF in a crop body. That camera was a sub-7D series that debuted the DPAF tech as a video rich feature. The 70D was often touted for video by Canon.

The 7D2 then came out also with DPAF as the 7 crop bodies are regarded as the 1 Series of APS-C models. Being the do all, be everything, ultimate (crop) DSLR

The out came the DX2 also with DPAF as it was the new FF do all, be everything, ultimate Full Frame Camera.

The 5 body doesn't necessarily fit into this anywhere. The video specs rumored here don't seem to suggest the 5 body is meant to be a killer DSLR video camera. Plus, the 1DX2 and 7D2 share the SAME 20.2MP DPAF build, with one being crop and one being FF (different pixel pitches obviously). 

Going back to my earlier point, I would have been more convinced of a 5 body having DPAF if the rumors gravitated to a 24MP sensor like the 80D (which replaced the 70D). But now we seem to be going to 30.... Would Canon really have made a totally new DPAF sensor (which are much more costly to produce than non DPAF) for a new 5 body that still doesn't seem (at this point based on rumor) to be seriously enriched in video features like the DX2? 

Just asking questions. I really don't know. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not expecting it. DPAF isn't something that is going to add a lot of value to a 5 body's primary market or wedding and portrait shooters who seldom use Live View with Servo.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> DPAF is given. Leaving it out would be about as bad as removing LCD.



Facetious sarcasm I trust. Lack of DPAF won't inhibit your ability to shoot stills through the OVF, which is the overwhelming majority of how the 5 bodies are used. Not having a method of reviewing your images however...could present a serious problem.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> Not having a method of reviewing your images however...could present a serious problem.



Could be Canon's one-up version of Nikon's 'pure photography'...


----------



## MrToes (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Can't wait, both my 5d iii's are now past the 150K mark. I'll make sure to buy the Sony French Press to go with it! WiFi to a laptop for insta viewing would be a 5 star upgrade.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > DPAF is given. Leaving it out would be about as bad as removing LCD.
> ...



Just kit it with one of these


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Well another site is saying they have confirmation the 5D4 will indeed have DPAF. If so I stand corrected and I am very happy with it. But I wouldnt have complained had it not


----------



## tpatana (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > DPAF is given. Leaving it out would be about as bad as removing LCD.
> ...



Cd player or the lack of doesn't prevent cars from moving people from A to B, but try selling new car in 2016 without one.

Same goes for dpaf in $1000+ bodies in 2016. It doesn't impact most uses of the camera, but leaving it out would raise plenty eyebrows.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > tpatana said:
> ...



CD player may not be the best anaolgy. DPAF is a unique Canon feature that has special purposes.


----------



## M_S (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Nice that below that rumour is an add from B&H for Lexar CF-cards. Nice timing


----------



## mb66energy (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > tpatana said:
> ...



I really would appreciate DPAF for
macro stills
landscape
architecture
where composing with the display is sometimes a better option. The distance between "viewfinder" and me is helpful like in the old days with my Rolleicord with matte screen view finder (w/o pentaprism).

The best what can happen (for ME) is a DPAF + switchable OVF/EVF combo - let's see what's inside the big hump ...


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

DPAF? So far even Canon's best implementation [80D] has not yielded Live-View AF performance on par or better than "regular run of the mill" Hybrid CD/PD-AF systems in competitor products [eg. Sony A6300 or Fuji XT-1]. Rather underwhelming and definitely much overhyped. 

Will be interesting to see, whether 5D4 comes with DPAF or not [my guess is no, otherwise it would have been stated in rumoured specs] and if so, if stupid Canon finally is able to deliver really superior Live View AF performance with it.


----------



## AdamBotond (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Is it only me being a bit disappointed about the major MP increase (30 MP)? Not that I don't appreciate MP increase, on the otherhand now we can take it granted the not much improvement in IQ (high iso, dynamic range) compared to 5D III will take place (if any at all).


----------



## davidj (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



AdamBotond said:


> Is it only me being a bit disappointed about the major MP increase (30 MP)? Not that I don't appreciate MP increase, on the otherhand now we can take it granted the not much improvement in IQ (high iso, dynamic range) compared to 5D III will take place (if any at all).



Dynamic range at low ISOs should improve by a decent amount, and it doesn't really depend on resolution. The 80D has better dynamic range at ISO 100 and 200 than the 1D X and 5D III according to http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm .

I would imagine that individual pixels might see more noise, but the pictures would be cleaner overall (or the same) when downsized. At a certain point, there's no need to have so many pixels when shooting at high ISOs, but it doesn't make the end result worse in practice.

The real downsides are that the sensor is creating more data, which means the camera has to do more to produce the same amount of photos, potentially limiting FPS, and that it requires more storage space.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



AdamBotond said:


> Is it only me being a bit disappointed about the major MP increase (30 MP)? Not that I don't appreciate MP increase, on the otherhand now we can take it granted the not much improvement in IQ (high iso, dynamic range) compared to 5D III will take place (if any at all).


You can since the 5DS/R sensor is better than the 5DIII sensor with its 50 MPIX in all aspects: noise, DR, base iso, color etc.

I expect Canon to improve further on the 5DS/R sensor tech *and *have the gains of less MPIX.

Time will tell.


----------



## 9VIII (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



AvTvM said:


> DPAF? So far even Canon's best implementation [80D] has not yielded Live-View AF performance on par or better than "regular run of the mill" Hybrid CD/PD-AF systems in competitor products [eg. Sony A6300 or Fuji XT-1]. Rather underwhelming and definitely much overhyped.



Every review I see that mentions DPAF says it's the best thing on the market for video, Canon is obviously not targeting stills with their DPAF algorithms.


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



takesome1 said:


> There is no way I will buy this body.
> It is obvious (by comparison to all the 5Ds posts) the increased pixel density will make it 34% harder to hand hold.



Only if you want to get the most out of the camera. If you're willing to get as much as you get from your current camera, then not.


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



I don't print larger or crop much more than I did when I had a 450D w/ 12MP, which were a little limiting. Everything beyond 16MP is overhead. A 5MP overhead is minor. A 100% overhead? That's something else.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > tpatana said:
> ...



People still buy CD players? ??? People still buy CDs? ??? Who would want a bunch of CDs clicking around when one can put them on an MP3 player and plug it into the car's sound system. I've had no problem at all putting my old CDs on my iPod.

The analogy is poor. CDs are old tech. DPAF is new tech.

Has anybody here bought a 2016 model car and wondered about it having a CD player? Heck, I bought a new Ford Focus in 2013 (low end car) and never wondered about the CD player. Never put one in it. I haven't owned a CD in years. Why pay money for songs that ain't worth a... you get the idea. Maybe 1 or 2 hits on the whole CD?

DPAF is a given


----------



## Talley (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I've read though this whole thread and surprised myself that DPAF hasn't came up till page 18. I for one DEMAND this in the 5D4. I dont like the full body size of the 1D and prefer the 5D series to handle all my semi-pro needs. Other features that I EXPECT are:

DPAF
24-30mp is fine
15 stops dynamic range at ISO 100
7FPS at a minimum now... 8 would be icing on the cake
Latest minimum shutter menu (up to 1/8000 and auto features of 7D2... should be a given)
4K @ 30fps is fine enough for me but it's future proofing it so it's a must have
SD slot that is the latest speed and doesn't slow the camera down to a crippling 21MBps like the 5D3 had
WIFI/GPS should be in there
customizeable Q menu
SOME touch screen features even that of the 1dx but really should be similar to the 80D now
anti-flicker (should be a given but I demand this!)
better silent shutter (latest cameras are even quieter now)
A plus would be for some RAW output via HDMI for those video guys
1DXII AF enhancements with the spreaded out focus points
150,000-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor of the 7D2 at a minimum
-4EV focus point on the center!!!... cmon' Canon
F8 focus across all points

These are ALL reasonable improvements and would be justifyable for a new camera... throw in a few little extras here and there but this IMHO should be the minimum improvements for a 5D4.


----------



## AvTvM (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

the enlarged prism hump gives slight hope that Canon finally includes "2016 worthy" radio communications "trifecta": 
1. WiFi (+NFC), with remote control functionality including user programmable intervalometer
2. GPS 
3. Radio wireless flash commander [RT]
... each function with a separate on/off switch in menu. 

BUT ... we are talking stupid Canon, so maybe 1 or max. 2 out of 3 ?


----------



## TommyLee (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

two features on 1dx2 that I really like are spot link to focus point AND the ability to set min shutter speed...in ...say aperture...setting..
of all the custom features ..that is very useful...
the 8 fps with some decent RAW depth is great...30 megs is also great...
not very concerned about video...good enough for second thoughts...
care less about wifi or gps...

after that 
give me a new 135 f2 (or even re-buy old one) and a STUNNING new 24-105...
and this will be last rig for me...

the 14 mk II, new 35L II , 100L macro .....and 100-400 II are just lovely...

I cant carry more ...anyway


----------



## Act444 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



AdamBotond said:


> Is it only me being a bit disappointed about the major MP increase (30 MP)? Not that I don't appreciate MP increase, on the otherhand now we can take it granted the not much improvement in IQ (high iso, dynamic range) compared to 5D III will take place (if any at all).



No, you are not the only one. Voiced similar concerns a few pages back...

A corresponding improvement in high ISO would help offset this, but I don't imagine there being much of one, if at all.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Talley said:


> I've read though this whole thread and surprised myself that DPAF hasn't came up till page 18. I for one DEMAND this in the 5D4. I dont like the full body size of the 1D and prefer the 5D series to handle all my semi-pro needs. Other features that I EXPECT are:
> 
> DPAF
> 24-30mp is fine
> ...



Having owned the 5DS for the past year I would add in the following:- 

The improved mirror / mirror box assembly / Mirror lock-up
The better base plate (both these have improved vibration issues) 
Timer (for long exposures)
Better AF for 1.4 & 2X III extenders

No one should worry about blur / shake if the camera is 30MP in reality with good practise Ive rarely seen it with the 5DS and I print often to A3 or larger. Higher ISO noise improvements / DR improvements are always welcome but the strength of the Canon system far out weighs this. 
My only frustrations with the 5DS are a. write speed & b. download speeds. On some long exposures the write speed is awful as is HDR.


----------



## deorum (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Tbh i was highly anticipating for the 1080p 120fps, and i am a bit dissapointed. 

ofc i cannot know if this is due to lack of CFast or there are also other hardware limitations (i assume that if it was as simple as CFast it would be implemented, so i guess there are a lot more needed for that). So i dont care for the debate of CFast or not. 

Yes this is a primarly a still camera, and blah blah blah, but why then wouldnt that make a bigger point than pixel pipping ISO 6400, to see if shadows are a bit clearer or not? Everything has reached a good plataeu already, and this imho does make a clear improvement. 

Also i am always impressed , how, after 10 years of the same discussion, people think tha more MP = more noise.


----------



## tron (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

The smart/fast/cheap/compatible thing would be to support SD UHS-II cards....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



deorum said:


> Also i am always impressed , how, after 10 years of the same discussion, people think tha more MP = more noise.



So, you're impressed that people believe something that's true (at least in some cases)? Ok, then...

When comparing sensors of the same size, more MP = smaller pixels, and smaller pixels have lower SNR, which in practical terms means more noise. That's just basic physics (albeit with some underlying assumptions). But I guess it is somewhat impressive that many people do seem to grasp that concept. 

One of the oft-cited reasons for more MP is more ability to crop, and if you compare an image from a 20 MP FF sensor to an image from a 50 MP FF sensor cropped down to 20 MP (not downsampled), the image from the 20 MP sensor will have less noise. So in what, for some, is a common use case (same focal length but shot from further away becuase more MP allows more cropping) it is indeed true that more MP = more noise.


----------



## yeahright (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> One of the oft-cited reasons for more MP is more ability to crop, and if you compare an image from a 20 MP FF sensor to an image from a 50 MP FF sensor cropped down to 20 MP (not downsampled), the image from the 20 MP sensor will have less noise. So in what, for some, is a common use case (same focal length but shot from further away becuase more MP allows more cropping) it is indeed true that more MP = more noise.


But in this case the higher number of pixels is not the REASON for the higher noise. If people shot with a higher pixel density camera the same way as with a lower pixel density camera (of same-generation sensor tech, same distance to subject, same lens, same framing etc.) and downsampled the high-res image to the size of the low-res image, then the resulting noise would be essentially identical. The higher noise in this example comes from a changed shooting style where people rely on the higher pixel density for being able to crop. But just like in the camera shake discussion this is comparing apples with oranges. So the blame should not really be on the higher pixel density but on people trying to take maximum advantage of a single one of a camera's technical capabilities while ignoring a potential degradation in others.

So (apart from file sizes, transfer speeds etc.) I don't quite get why people would complain about higher pixel densities using the argument that it increases noise or makes the images more susceptible to camera shake or the like. When in fact they can still shoot the same way they always have getting the same noise and the same blurriness when shaking the camera. But they ADDITIONALLY get some more options. If they don't use those additional option wisely and in full knowledge that some other parameters may become worse in that case, then that's their problem, but not a problem that the higher pixel density causes.


----------



## deorum (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> deorum said:
> 
> 
> > Also i am always impressed , how, after 10 years of the same discussion, people think tha more MP = more noise.
> ...



i dont want to get in the debate if MP=noise or not.
you seem to agree with me, but for some reason you mention a "semantic" way that this statament is true (if you crop the 50mp image to 20mp, it will have more noise)

which is pointless, since your are comparing then on different basis the same camera (what if you crop to the same %% the 20mp sensor, that would be fair). 
"same focal lenght but further away..."
This is so pointless, as if saying just because you can shoot iso 3200, but its worse than iso 100, since iso 100 is clearer. 
Essentially you are saying the same thing. More MP is more noiser, if you shot further away with same FL, and then crop, than a proper shot, with lower MP.

You can always exchange some more detail for less noise, but not the opposite. 

As i said, im still impressed that people think that newer cameras are sacrificing SNR because MPs go higher.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



deorum said:


> i dont want to get in the debate if MP=noise or not.
> you seem to agree with me, but for some reason you mention a "semantic" way that this statament is true (if you crop the 50mp image to 20mp, it will have more noise)
> 
> which is pointless, since your are comparing then on different basis the same camera



It is less about 'comparing them on a different basis' as how you use the camera.
Photographing small animals the chances are a vast majority of your images will be cropped whether you are using full frame or APS-C. In that situation, per-pixel noise is important. 
If you are a landscape photographer the chances are that cropping will be less important and the summation of more, but smaller, pixels will cancel out the quality of the large pixel.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I cross posted my feelings on DPR, but I must say that I am a bit disappointed in the feature set given that the 5D2 really set the benchmark for DSLR video. It is surprising that the 5D4 is looking like it will again forgo basic features like focus peaking, zebra lines, log color. It doesn't offer [email protected] and if the HDMI is like the 1DX2, it will be limited to 1080p which means no 4K external recording.

There are a lot of shooters like myself that have recognized that video production is a viable revenue stream to complement stills work and rather than investing in completely independent tools, are finding hybrid tools a better option to bridge both worlds. I used to do 80/20 stills/video, but these days I'm closer to 30/70 stills/video and while I keep my entire complement of Canon lenses, I honestly can't remember the last time it wasn't on a speedbooster sitting in front of a Blackmagic, Panasonic or Sony body. 

I realize that Canon may still be wanting to keep the 5D body stills centric, but I would say I am not in the minority here and those that haven't already jumped to other platforms will do so if Canon continuously disappoints.


----------



## shutterlag (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

These video specs are useless without knowing the codec. I fully expect Canon to sh** on customers and use motion jpeg, making the video absolutely useless.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> deorum said:
> 
> 
> > Also i am always impressed , how, after 10 years of the same discussion, people think tha more MP = more noise.
> ...



I have to admit, as a non-technical person (I just take the pictures, I don't design the cameras) I find this all a bit confusing. Perhaps people can answer some simple questions?

At ISO 6400, which image will have less noise? One from a 20 mp full frame sensor or one from a 50 mp full frame sensor?

At ISO 6400, while image will have less noise? One from a 20 mp full frame sensor or one from a 20 mp APS-C sensor?

This discussion seems to be running contrary to everything I've ever read or experienced. Because what I have experienced is that my old 22 mp 5D III always seemed to have less noise at ISO 6400 than my 7DII, even though my 7DII was newer generation sensor. (Admittedly, it was not a huge difference, but certainly noticeable.)

And, now, my 20 mp 1Dx II also seems to have less noise at ISO 6400 than my 7DII. Yet, many people here seem to be insisting that a 5D s (which is similar to a 7DII scaled up, except without DPAF) will perform as well at ISO 6400 as the 1Dx II.

Yet, when I look at review sites and use their comparison tools, that doesn't appear to be the case. 

If it were the case, I have to wonder, why would Canon, Nikon and Sony all use fewer megapixels on their low-light, high ISO cameras? Should someone clue them in that they've been doing it wrong all these years?


----------



## yeahright (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> At ISO 6400, which image will have less noise? One from a 20 mp full frame sensor or one from a 50 mp full frame sensor?


The pixel-per-pixel noise on the 50MP sensor will be higher. When images from the 50 MP sensor are downsampled to 20 MP however, then the noise is identical. Meaning: downsampling has (essentially) the same effect as enlarging pixels and reducing pixel density in the first place, because downsampling is essentially averaging over a number of pixels and therefore has the same effect as larger pixels.


> At ISO 6400, while image will have less noise? One from a 20 mp full frame sensor or one from a 20 mp APS-C sensor?


the APS-C-sensor will have more noise.


> This discussion seems to be running contrary to everything I've ever read or experienced. Because what I have experienced is that my old 22 mp 5D III always seemed to have less noise at ISO 6400 than my 7DII, even though my 7DII was newer generation sensor. (Admittedly, it was not a huge difference, but certainly noticeable.)


that's as expected. Larger sensor area and (almost) same number of pixels -> higher area per pixel -> less noise.


> And, now, my 20 mp 1Dx II also seems to have less noise at ISO 6400 than my 7DII. Yet, many people here seem to be insisting that a 5D s (which is similar to a 7DII scaled up, except without DPAF) will perform as well at ISO 6400 as the 1Dx II.
> 
> Yet, when I look at review sites and use their comparison tools, that doesn't appear to be the case.
> 
> If it were the case, I have to wonder, why would Canon, Nikon and Sony all use fewer megapixels on their low-light, high ISO cameras? Should someone clue them in that they've been doing it wrong all these years?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mikehit said:


> deorum said:
> 
> 
> > i dont want to get in the debate if MP=noise or not.
> ...



+1 - not pointless at all, to any bird/wildlife shooter. 

For example, if you have a 5DIII and a 400mm lens, and you need to get more pixels on your subject (the tiny bird in the middle of the frame), should you get a 5DsR or a 600/4 + 1.4xIII? Getting the 5DsR and cropping will mean more noise than getting the 600+1.4x and using your 5DIII, and also better overall IQ...but it's also a lot more expensive. Smaller pixels don't mean a free lunch.

OTOH, if you're filling the frame with your subject, there are advantages to smaller pixels with no meaningful disadvantage.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> I have to admit, as a non-technical person (I just take the pictures, I don't design the cameras) I find this all a bit confusing. Perhaps people can answer some simple questions?
> 
> At ISO 6400, which image will have less noise? One from a 20 mp full frame sensor or one from a 50 mp full frame sensor?
> 
> At ISO 6400, while image will have less noise? One from a 20 mp full frame sensor or one from a 20 mp APS-C sensor?



When comparing sensors of different sizes (your second question), the larger sensor will have lower noise becuase it gathers more total light, and image noise is proportional to total light gathered. There are per-pixel noise effects, too, but those are overwhelmed by the difference in total light gathered.

When comparing sensors of the same size (your first question), the differences are more subtle. The sensor with the smaller pixels (which is the same as more MP, but it's the size not the number that matters), if you downsample the 50 MP sensor to 20 MP, the noise will be the same. If you evaluate both at 100%, the 50 MP image will appear noisier (but bigger). If you crop the 50 MP image down to 20 MP, it will be noisier than the image shot at 20 MP.


----------



## Schwingi (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Nothing extraordinary here...


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Schwingi said:


> Nothing extraordinary here...



Which is exactly why Canon are the success they have been.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I have to admit, as a non-technical person (I just take the pictures, I don't design the cameras) I find this all a bit confusing. Perhaps people can answer some simple questions?
> ...


Some conjecture on my part...
I wonder how much of a difference lens sharpness makes. Noise is most obvious in dark pixels. Where there is true subject detail, a sharper lens would more successfully separate light into adjacent pixels. It would dump more light into an adjacent bright pixel leading to a high SNR for that pixel. At the same time the darker pixel would be significantly darker so a bit of noise would still be masked by lower output brightness perhaps?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



StudentOfLight said:


> Some conjecture on my part...
> I wonder how much of a difference lens sharpness makes. Noise is most obvious in dark pixels. Where there is true subject detail, a sharper lens would more successfully separate light into adjacent pixels. It would dump more light into an adjacent bright pixel leading to a high SNR for that pixel. At the same time the darker pixel would be significantly darker so a bit of noise would still be masked by lower output brightness perhaps?



An interesting thought, but given that people worrying about such things are seriously into image quality and will have a stable of high quality lenses already. But overall I very much doubt that even with the best lenses you are talking black/white cut-off of illuminated/not illuminated. You are more likely talking about degree of fading and considering that the difference in pixel pitch between the 5D3 (6.4um) and the 5DSR (4.14um) is so small you are unlikely to see the difference in the illumination to that extent. 
Also, the focus is only absolutely accurate in the centre part at the precise plane of focus. As soon as you move even a millimeter from the plane of focus you are starting to blur the image and 'Depth of field' refers only to 'acceptably sharp' not sharp in absolute terms - these would probably override (or even swamp) any tightness of illumination due to whether a specific pixel is illuminated or not.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > Some conjecture on my part...
> ...



I'd like to see actual side by side images that illustrate that.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > Some conjecture on my part...
> ...



ISO Noise is the same, regardless if the image is soft or sharp. Iso noise is the same in out of focus areas or in focus areas. Iso noise is not effected in any way by the lens. So mention you IS enabled less is irrelevant to any discussion regarding iso noise.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> ...if you downsample the 50 MP sensor to 20 MP, the noise will be the same. If you evaluate both at 100%, the 50 MP image will appear noisier (but bigger). If you crop the 50 MP image down to 20 MP, it will be noisier than the image shot at 20 MP.



Thanks Neuro, 

But this still leaves me wondering why Canon and Nikon keep their flagship models to the lowest pixel count and why Sony offers a camera with low pixel count for high ISO performance. And...why review sites consistently rate these lower mp models better at low light/high ISO.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GMCPhotographics said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



Technically true...but the quantitative amount of noise in various regions of an image is not the same as the visual _perception_ of noise in those same regions of an image. Noise is better perceived in OOF areas of an image than in areas where there are crisp details. 

What's relevant for a discussion of photographic images is the perception of noise, not the technical quantitation of that noise. Technically, the image below is static. But that's not how it's _perceived_.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ...if you downsample the 50 MP sensor to 20 MP, the noise will be the same. If you evaluate both at 100%, the 50 MP image will appear noisier (but bigger). If you crop the 50 MP image down to 20 MP, it will be noisier than the image shot at 20 MP.
> ...



FPS .. and who knows why Sony does anything.

edit: also to add the sports shooting pros that dominate that segment don't really want larger files.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I have to admit, as a non-technical person (I just take the pictures, I don't design the cameras) I find this all a bit confusing. Perhaps people can answer some simple questions?
> ...



Simply downsampling isn't correct though.

shooting at 50mp on the 5Ds .. allows you to process those images with aggressive NR far more than you could with a 22Mp image and THEN downsample for sharpness and clarity back down to 22mp.

that is really where the "I don't need more Mp's and need more high ISO" crowd gets it wrong.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ...if you downsample the 50 MP sensor to 20 MP, the noise will be the same. If you evaluate both at 100%, the 50 MP image will appear noisier (but bigger). If you crop the 50 MP image down to 20 MP, it will be noisier than the image shot at 20 MP.
> ...



Because most of the reviewers are not explaining their methodology, they invariably look at 100% views rather than normalising to make more valid comparisons.

The manufacturers have been fighting consumer preconceived prejudices for ever. Having said that the 1D series from Canon and the D* series from Nikon have both previously had high and low pixel count models, market forces have obviously proven the high pixel versions are not economical. After all, they both offer much higher MP 'lower' models, the 5DS/R and D810, again very similar cameras. I'd put the absence of higher MP blue ribbon cameras down to nothing more than market forces.

For a perfect example of the pixel size/noise misdirection just look at 5D MkIII images compared to downsampled 5DSR images.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...



As so often that just isn't a valid comparison. The scenes have different EV's, the lighter image is a much tighter crop/it has much fewer pixels, the images have different exposures, they have very different contrast levels, etc etc.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ...if you downsample the 50 MP sensor to 20 MP, the noise will be the same. If you evaluate both at 100%, the 50 MP image will appear noisier (but bigger). If you crop the 50 MP image down to 20 MP, it will be noisier than the image shot at 20 MP.
> ...



As rrcphoto states, lower MP counts can mean higher frame rates, which is a big part of why the CaNikon flagships have lower MP counts.

As to why reviewers rate the lower MP sensors higher, as PBD says, they're looking at 100%. As above, on a pixel level smaller pixels have higher noise. Compare DxO's signal:noise (SNR) data for the 1D X II (orange), 5DsR (red), and 7DII (yellow). 

Their Screen view (top panel) is essentially comparing them at 100%, so you're looking at per-pixel noise. The SNR is higher for the 1D X II (bigger pixels mean less noise per pixel), and the 5DsR and 7DII are basically the same (same size pixels, and sensor size doesn't matter when looking at the pixel level). 

For their Print view (bottom panel), they are (mathematically) downsampling the data to 8 MP, so you're effectively looking at whole-image noise. In that case, you see that there is basically no difference between the 1D X II and 5DsR (bigger sensor means more total light gathered, meaning less image noise), whereas the 7DII has lower SNR (less total light, more image noise).


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I've attached a table I threw together quickly to hopefully help illustrate my thought process. (For simplicity sake I've excluded read noise and Pixel response non-conformity and thermal noise)

If you define a noisy pixel as one where SNR value is lower than 5 then:
Scenario 1 has two noisy pixels
Scenario 2 has one borderline pixel and one noisy pixel 
Scenario 3 has one clean pixel and one noisy pixel.


----------



## Talley (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



I get that. Which is why I will buy a 5DsR if the 5D4 doesn't deliver... it has anti-flicker, min shutter options and then I just downsample to a better image.


----------



## tron (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > deorum said:
> ...


I would like to grab the chance and ask for an opinion on a slight different senario:

Same lens , different camera (crop/no crop). Focal Length limited situations only (bird photography).

In my case I have 7D2 and 5D3. Also I have 500mm II and 1.4XIII and 2XIII 

So the questions: 

7D2+ 500 or 5D3 + 500 + 1.4 ?
7D2 + 500 + 1.4XIII or 5D3 + 2XIII ? 

OK in the latter case 2X makes AF more difficult but let's assume almost static subjects.

To tell the truth it is I who should have made the comparisons. But I have not!

But I have tried 7D2 + 500 and 7D2 + 500 + 1.4X ( FYI I have used 500 with my 5D3 in other - non bird - cases).

In both cases 7D2 can be used with 1 stop advantage so by setting the lens fully open this can be translated to one stop difference in ISO. (Not to mention that in 2X case we would have to stop down say 2/3 of a stop to compensate for the loss of IQ).

I believe in this situation there is no clear advantage of a full frame camera (and even if there is one it is very small).


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...



I'm not arguing. You made what I consider to be a fairly unusual claim and I simply asked for comparative images to illustrate your point. Get defensive if you like but I don't believe your claim is valid and I just pointed out the glaring inconsistencies with your illustrative images.

Contrast is the main factor in apparent sharpness, to use a high contrast image to a low contrast image to prove your point seemed strange. But ignore that, look at both at 100% and there is practically no difference in detail, certainly non that isn't explained by the differences in contrast. 

Just compare the two shirts when both put to 100%.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> Those are similar enough to demonstrate the difference.



Of course there's a clear difference... But from that pair of images it's not remotely possible to conclude that there's a difference in the image noise due to the lens used. All you're showing is that the 70-200 II is sharper wide open than the 2.8 non-IS...and that's not news to anyone (well, except maybe DxO).




kevl said:


> Lots of forum warriors so few photographers.



I'm not sure which category you fall into, but PBD is definitely in the latter.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tron said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



Focal length limited, the setup which gets you more pixels on target will win (since it provides more data).
Non-FLL, the setup which gets you more sensor are on target will win (since it provides more signal).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tron said:


> 7D2+ 500 or 5D3 + 500 + 1.4 ?
> 7D2 + 500 + 1.4XIII or 5D3 + 2XIII ?
> 
> I believe in this situation there is no clear advantage of a full frame camera (and even if there is one it is very small).



Depends on the available light. If it's a bright, sunny day when you're shooting birds, there's not going to be a major IQ difference, and in that case I'd be inclined to the 7DII options for the better AF. But in lower light situations, the 5DIII + TC will have the advantage. Note that 'lower light situations' doesn't mean _really_ dim light, becuase if you're shooting flying birds you need high shutter speeds and that means higher ISO.


----------



## tron (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


This summarizes it well but I believe that the senarios above are close:

7D2 + 500 = 800mm equivalent (it's easier than to count pixels)
5D3 + 500 + 1.4X = 700mm

OK the difference I guess in pixels is (800/700)**2 ~ 1.3 => ~30% more pixels.

At the same time we can shoot with 1 stop less in ISO. So I guess the question is whether a FF like 5D3 is much better than 1 stop from an APS-C...


----------



## tron (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > 7D2+ 500 or 5D3 + 500 + 1.4 ?
> ...


+ 1 Indeed! I forgot about that! I had seen it happen in many bird photos this Spring. In fact I remember myself mentioning it in some 7D2 related threads. Thanks.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> If you or the other person you assure me is definitely a photographer disagree then please show me a better comparison. Or we can agree to disagree. That's fine by me.



I've never owned the 70-200/2.8L non-IS, so you won't be seeing comparisons from me. I don't find your comparison convincing....clearly, it's subjective.


----------



## Diko (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Good to go: 
*4:2:2 <> 8bit 500mbps MJPEG* - could that be the great thing about ONLY-CANON-has-it-perhaps-for-the-first time?

*7 FPS* - just like my good old Canon *40D * 
I presume the *ISO *would be around *104k* where *25K* would be the hard limit for any _descent _photo.

SIDEnote: I didn't know there existed 8 inch floppy, nor that there is still a vendor with a classy 1999 website that still produce them.

Idea: CR must be CH (Canon Humor). ;-)


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...



When I have an idea that I think has an impact on my photography I take the time to test it. Too often our thoughts are not based on strong comparative empirical evidence, we enter the exercise with preconceived ideas and our 'comparisons' invariably illustrate that.

Years ago I wanted a 7D, I'd bought into the 'more pixels on duck' theory so I borrowed one (actually two). Well after conducting my own genuine comparative tests I concluded that the 'pixels on duck' theory is largely a fallacy and the 7D had no real value for me. I have been very outspoken for years about that darn 'pixels on duck' nonsense and that is only because I took an hour to prove it to myself.

Your images are nothing like each other, I don't believe your assertion and you have not shown anything to support it. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying you haven't shown evidence to support your idea. Of course you don't have to, but if you don't then you should expect to get called out by people who do try hard to better their output and take a small amount of time to actually prove it to themselves.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Diko said:


> Good to go:
> 4:2:2 <> 8bit 500mbps MJPEG - could that be the great thing about ONLY-CANON-has-it-perhaps-for-the-first time?
> 
> 7 FPS - just like my good old Canon 40D



that's the same as the 1DC:

The Canon 1DC uses Motion Jpeg / YUV 4:2:2 to compress the massive 4k 24p resolution video files. It's a variable bit rate of around 500 Mbps that will change depending on the shot and ISO level.

and most likely the same as the 1DX Mark II .. so no.. something they've already done.

7 fps is a bit of a downer.


----------



## Diko (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> that's the same as the 1DC:
> 
> The Canon 1DC uses Motion Jpeg / YUV 4:2:2 to compress the massive 4k 24p resolution video files. It's a variable bit rate of around 500 Mbps that will change depending on the shot and ISO level.
> 
> ...




Who knows... but that with the motion JPEG could be only in this DSLR... Not quite acquainted if anyone else has it... 1DC IMO doesn't count.

I said I wouldn't buy 5Dm3 for the lack of wi-fi. Now I will buy this one for that particular feature (aside from the updated specs, of course).

7fps is a downer. Agree.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > If you or the other person you assure me is definitely a photographer disagree then please show me a better comparison. Or we can agree to disagree. That's fine by me.
> ...



Correct me if I am wrong but surely all you'd need to do is compare two 70-200 f2.8 IS MkII images, one with spot on focus the other slightly defocused?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Diko said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > that's the same as the 1DC:
> ...



the 1dx mark II does .. so no. not unique.

nothing that has been reported YET is something that is unique to canon DSLR's...

so far.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kevl said:


> I would never deliver an image at 3200 with the 2.8L but I can with the IS II.





kevl said:


> .... and I actually did deliver the one from the 2.8L - just don't remember it being at 3200 and only found it now by searching in Lr.



I need say no more...........


----------



## Diko (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



OOoops I've missed that line. 

Anyway. So far then I see nothing new feature-wise. :/

And still there is NO CR3 label :-(


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> When I have an idea that I think has an impact on my photography I take the time to test it.



Bingo. Half-assed comparisons aren't really useful for anyone – especially the one doing them if they lead to an erroneous conclusion. If it matters to you, test it properly. If that's done, you have evidence that should be convincing. If you document it, it may help others, which is always nice. For example:


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

holy crap .. you three need a different thread.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Diko said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...



we won't know the full specs until late next week going by past releases.

but yes.. i'm curious on the unique feature. I'm hoping for some sort of EVF or EVF attachment capability.


----------



## haupt (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Diko said:


> SIDEnote: I didn't know there existed 8 inch floppy, nor that there is still a vendor with a classy 1999 website that still produce them.



Well, as long as they are required for the US nuclear forces you can probably make profit making them - http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/677436.pdf


----------



## KarstenReis (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > Good to go:
> ...



Agree on the 7fps. I wouldn't have minded a shade fewer mp for a faster fps. This is right in a weird spot for getting a second body to compliment my 5DsR.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I like the technical information that gets "extracted" from "arguments". Just don't take things personally and have _fun_ like in a friendly debate. Personally, I'd much rather be illuminated than be deluded by something that I'd prefer to believe but may not be factual. It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong but that the points of view get expressed and discussed; win-win for all of us. 

Jack


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



KarstenReis said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...



kind of amusing how spoiled we are .. it will be the fastest full frame camera under the 1 series or the Dx series bodies.

but we're all looking at it going .. is that all?


----------



## Tugela (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

They are going to struggle to write 500 mbps without a CFast card. That is 62.5 MB/s sustained write. It is not going to be a super user friendly camera for shooting 4K by the looks of it. I would guess that you would have to use the CF slot for that.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Tugela said:


> They are going to struggle to write 500 mbps without a CFast card. That is 62.5 MB/s sustained write. It is not going to be a super user friendly camera for shooting 4K by the looks of it. I would guess that you would have to use the CF slot for that.



1DC does it just fine.

UHS-II SD cards should be just fine as well.


----------



## kevl (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Apparently it's ok for some users to insult other users but not ok for all users to insult each other. 

You guys win! The softness of the 2.8L doesn't make noise any more of an issue. You've convinced me through shaming and moderation. I will now repent.


----------



## Talley (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > They are going to struggle to write 500 mbps without a CFast card. That is 62.5 MB/s sustained write. It is not going to be a super user friendly camera for shooting 4K by the looks of it. I would guess that you would have to use the CF slot for that.
> ...



This. The CF cards I have sustain 90MB/s write speed. No issues.


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Diko said:


> *7 FPS* - just like my good old Canon *40D *



Hats off to you for having the only 40D body in the world that can shoot 7FPS . It shoots 6.3FPS max, 0.2FPS slower than the advertised "6.5FPS". This was before the CIPA testing standardization.



> I presume the *ISO *would be around *104k* where *25K* would be the hard limit for any _descent _photo.



You prefer ISO settings Nikon-style like 3.2Million ISO in the D5, which in testing was slightly worse than 1Dx2 that "only" reached 51200. This thread, as expected, has attracted the drive-by Noink trolls from DPR and similar equipment measurebating sites.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



KarstenReis said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...


Yup. 5 fps vs 7 fps not really significant. Somehow it seems the 5D-series will never make it into high fps territory.

Hmmmm.

As it looks now superior high iso will likely be the deciding factor for me. I'll probably preorder and hope the first iso tests come out just before delivery for my final take. Here's hoping for 2 stops better than the 5DS/R.

Touch screen, wifi and 30 MPIX are all attractive, but the 5DS/R is just so damn nice...


----------



## unfocused (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I appreciate the discussion. I must admit that when I review this and then try to reconcile it with past demonstrations by both Neuro and PDB that have shown examples of some pretty severe crops using cameras with sensors under 20 mp which don't seem to suffer significantly, I'm coming to the conclusion that MP counts may be the least relevant specification out there.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Clearly, Canon is *******. So ******* in fact that I've 90% settled on buying a 1DX II. Oh but someone here said the 120fps looked like junk. Yeah, no. For those who want/need a fast action stills body like I do that can also do great (albeit perhaps not the THE best) video, I've become convinced. This link is a great short video that was done by a guy who shoots professionally with RED Cinema gear and bought the DX2 as a B cam. In a conversation I had with him tonight, he could not have been more praising of the DX2's cinematic prowess for what it is. Technical aspects of this are wonderful, and there are some very lovely ladies scantily clad in it. Enjoy.
> ...



I'm completely unimpressed with the shadow detail around the bent over thongs.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I read CR for the humour.

Jack


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



As always there are caveats. I am using studio lights on location more and more and I am trying to push bigger prints. In these situations where I can control light and contrast and camera stability I am setting up the situation where I can realise the smaller pixels resolution potential.

We all have different specific needs, for me the key to all this tech is to work out how and when it can work for you, and if it will ever work against you.

I am very interested to see the output from the 5D MkIV and my interest is very narrow, specifically I am interested in the low iso image quality.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



CanonFanBoy said:


> I'm completely unimpressed with the shadow detail around the bent over thongs.



Factor in lots of crappy youtube compression


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Ok, so now we know 7fps and 30.4MP (although Craig himself hasn't appeared to have confirmed the DPAF part I've seen elsewhere)

This is making my decision even easier to move up to the DX2. The 1-2 extra FPS over my 5D3 isn't going to help any better. I already have a High MP Machine in my 5DSR. The extra speed and video capability (yes the 4:2:2 is same as DX2 far as I know and looks very good) in the DX2 is going to better fill my capability gaps rather than adding/upgrading my 5D3 to a 5D4. At least for right now.

If the built in Wifi happens, that would really be nice when I'm shooting 450 dance students while tethered, but dosen't itself warrant the move. Damn good lookin camera they've made it seems, just not the right fit for me based on this info


----------



## Cosmicbug (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Canon has done enough for me to justify the move to the newer model. I will be trading in my 5D3. I am sure ithe IV will continue to earn me a living.

Really guys, where else could I go???


----------



## zim (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



CanonFanBoy said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Yip, thongs just ain't wot they used to be


----------



## gunship01 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

ISO tests are all that is left (and seeing what card slots are provided). If it's good at low light, then I'm in.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> Cosmicbug said:
> 
> 
> > Canon has done enough for me to justify the move to the newer model. I will be trading in my 5D3. I am sure ithe IV will continue to earn me a living.
> ...



Quite the contrary, Cosmicbug owns and will for the near future own Canons.


----------



## DannyPwins (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Nice. I can't wait to preorder mine.


----------



## lloyd709 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Make my living using the mark III and the 3 big things that I'm looking for are improvements in dynamic range, focusing system (not that the mark III is that bad but could be a lot better) especially in lowish light and then noise control. Just thought I'd say.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I think you'll get what you're looking for then. The new Sensor tech we first saw on the DX2 will undoubtedly be on this body as well. AF system I suspect will be fairly similar to the new DX2 system with better accuracy and faster



lloyd709 said:


> Make my living using the mark III and the 3 big things that I'm looking for are improvements in dynamic range, focusing system (not that the mark III is that bad but could be a lot better) in term of focussing accuracy and speed (especially in lowish light) and then noise control. Just thought I'd say!


----------



## justsomedude (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Speclist schmecklist.

There's really only one factor here... If the 5D4 sensor is still far behind Sony and Nikon after 4 and a half years of R&D, I'm going to have to seriously start considering a gear switch. Sorry, Canon, I can only hang on for so long. :-\


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



justsomedude said:


> Speclist schmecklist.
> 
> There's really only one factor here... If the 5D4 sensor is still far behind Sony and Nikon after 4 and a half years of R&D, I'm going to have to seriously start considering a gear switch. Sorry, Canon, I can only hang on for so long. :-\



why would you even assume that when the 1dx mark ii already shows canon catches up.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



I agree with you, unless you are intending to produce exhibition sized prints under controlled conditions, and even under those circumstances moving up to a larger format would produce a better result, pro rata. 

I thought that moving up to the 40 to 50 MP mark on a FF sensor would give better colour definition, given the four pixel bayer array sensors, but in practice this doesn't really seem to be the case, even against a 12 MP camera. Yes you can define more colour definition / detail at 100% with a much larger image, but it is lost when reducing the output size. (A bit like the noise  ). I would say that 99% of the time for most people we are talking about an output size of somewhere between 100mm and 420 long side, and as we go for ever increasing MP I think this is giving images with something of a brittle signature compared with a relatively low MP camera, unless further work is done on the reduced size file. PS carries some blame here I think.

Quality is subjective. In the early days of photography when using large format cameras, infinite depth of field was very difficult to achieve, and full focus throughout the image was regarded as quality. Then in the modern age infinite depth of field became the domain of small sensored cameras, easy to achieve, and we now associate a selective focus with higher quality. It wouldn't surprise me if in time smoother, less brittle, micro-detailed images become more associated with 'quality', and lower MP cameras are better at this IMO. 

When you look at the main raisin de tair of the one series or Nikon single digit series, those cameras are all about speed and accuracy, and optimum quality output at normal output sizes, even under sub optimal, demanding conditions, so it's not at all surprising that they are going to stay around the 16 to 20 MP mark.


----------



## marvinhello (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

If Canon kept 1:1 readout in 4K mode (which is the only readout mode that makes sense for 4K), with 30.4MP sensor, the 4K video would come out as a massive 2.4x crop factor.


----------



## justsomedude (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > Speclist schmecklist.
> ...



I'd say it shows Canon "catching" up, and not that they've necessarily "Caught up." Sony still seems to have "prettier" noise...

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8090146652/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-studio-tests

Although I will wait for samples. I do want to stick with Canon... I have way too much invested in glass. :/


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



justsomedude said:


> Speclist schmecklist.
> 
> There's really only one factor here... If the 5D4 sensor is still far behind Sony and Nikon after 4 and a half years of R&D, I'm going to have to seriously start considering a gear switch. Sorry, Canon, I can only hang on for so long. :-\



Really? ONE factor? (and the DX2 is on pretty much par with the Sony sensors, which the 5D4 will share same tech) Could you please share some photos you've taken where the 5D3 failed and the D810 would have succeeded and tell us why?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



justsomedude said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > justsomedude said:
> ...



if a different of .5EV really makes that much difference to you .. okay then.

but really they have caught up.

load up the 1dx and do the same thing.


----------



## justsomedude (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > Speclist schmecklist.
> ...



Ugh. Why does everyone get so grumpy? I'm a Canon user, I use Canon glass, I will probably buy a Mark IV. 

Why does everyone get so offended by asking for a little better shadow recovery after 4 years?

Cripes. Sit down, have some tea.


----------



## justsomedude (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



You are right. I have a lot of issues. And I'm a terrible photographer.

I should sell all of my gear.

I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Thank you for helping me realize that I have no business in photography or commenting on cameras.

This has been a phenomenal learning experience.

I wish I knew these things about myself earlier in life.

As the saying goes... better late than never!


----------



## John2016 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications: *(2016)*

30.4mp *CHECK*
7fps *HM*
Compact Flash/SD Card Slots (No CFast) *LOL*
Built-in Wifi *OK*
24/30fps @ 4K *This is a Joke for a new camera what is in 3 years in development*
60fps @ 1080 *LOL - MIN 120*
120fps @ 720 *WHO CARES ABOUT 720? First TV stations in Japan broadcasting 8k*
4:2:2 *4:4:4*
8bit 500mbps MJPEG *LOL*

From my 20 colleagues 16 went to Sony. Canon had a huge chance to innovate the market but this is a *DEAD HORSE*. I invested over 20k in Canon glass and I own Canon EOS-1D X Mark II.
Without the correct LUT and 4:4:4 output this is just a nice *Z* camera. We all been waiting for Canon to give us some innovation but in 2016 a *touch screen* and *WIFI* is simple not enough...
Fact is Sony is taking over and Canon with this strange marketing strategy is not going anywhere. 
Protecting the C line is a very bad mistake...


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I wasn't being grumpy. I'm very happy with my gear. I wouldn't mind having more DR. But what I have now works fine. I was responding to you casting aside the entire spec list as meaningless unless the "one factor" was improved or you were (implied) gonna leave Canon. That sounded pretty grumpy to me. I'll have some Earl Grey, thanks



justsomedude said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > justsomedude said:
> ...


----------



## Cosmicbug (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

May be to you Dilbert but I don't have an axe to grind on here and pleased Canon have evolved the 5D4 enough to stop me from continuing with my three year old Mk3. Often crop my images in my work and 30mpx will help in that area. I would have liked 10fps but that was always unlikely. 8fps would have been sweet!


dilbert said:


> Cosmicbug said:
> 
> 
> > Canon has done enough for me to justify the move to the newer model. I will be trading in my 5D3. I am sure ithe IV will continue to earn me a living.
> ...


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



justsomedude said:


> Sony still seems to have "prettier" noise...



And uglier skin tones and color science.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications: *(2016)*
> 
> 30.4mp *CHECK*
> 7fps *HM*
> ...



: Dude... LOL. Amazing.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> ....Protecting the C line is a very bad mistake...



One of the smartest lines I've read here...


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



justsomedude said:


> I should sell all of my gear.
> 
> I have no idea what I'm talking about.
> 
> ...



I have long been convinced that a lot of talk about having better camera for more DR, greater resolution or whatever you are looking for is more about photographers ego than it is about genuine. It is about the photographer knowing they have the best camera rather than any viewer actually caring what they are using. Even for demanding professional how many clients can actually tell the difference between what the demanding pro says is 'brilliant', 'so-so' and 'awful'. 

0.5EV of DR between generations does not make a noticeable difference to the final output. But a 0.5EV improvement over successive generations does. A lot of serious photographers I either know or have corresponded with subscribe to the view of taking up on every second generation for that reason.


----------



## deorum (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

OK, i've seen the new updated rumor, and correct me if i am wrong because i admit i have a lot of things to learn in video. 

Since the bitrate is the same as 1dx2 in most settings (500mbps), do i think that the limitation to not shot 120fps @ 1080p, is not a hardware issue?
I know 1dx2 can reach as high as 800mbps with a CFAST for 60fps/4K, but unless my math is wrong, 500mbps should be enough, and of enough quality, for 120fps 1080p (1/4th of the 30fps/4K).


----------



## bart13 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I really hope it has a normal codec for 4k and not only mjpeg


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications: *(2016)*
> 
> 30.4mp *CHECK*
> 7fps *HM*
> ...



lol .. sure they did.


fact is .. sony has a 12% marketshare that is heavily inflated by their dubious statistics.


----------



## CSD (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I shoot 720p for distribution purposes and marketing snippets for clients. It's faster to edit and render, especially if all you're doing is 2-3min clips. 120fps might give me some creative choices, yes I'd prefer 1080p but 60fps is good enough for the work I do.


----------



## John2016 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*


lol .. sure they did.


fact is .. sony has a 12% marketshare that is heavily inflated by their dubious statistics.
[/quote]

http://improvephotography.com/35440/state-of-the-camera-industry-report-how-much-trouble-are-canon-and-nikon-in/

http://www.diyphotography.net/japan-has-spoken-canon-dominates-sony-dethrones-olympus-and-nikon-stutters/

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/those-are-the-2015-japanese-camera-sales-info-via-bcnranking/

How long Sony produce mirrorless cameras? ???


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> From my 20 colleagues 16 went to Sony. Canon had a huge chance to innovate the market but this is a *DEAD HORSE*.



Wow, 20 people...that's a big sample. : Are you suggesting that your buddies are representative of the global market?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> fact is .. sony has a 12% marketshare that is heavily inflated by their dubious statistics.



Let's not forget their world renowned Sony Professional Service that all the pros rave about or their amazing reliability and extra long battery life. Do you see all those Sony cameras all over the Olympics?!?! 

.... me neither.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > From my 20 colleagues 16 went to Sony. Canon had a huge chance to innovate the market but this is a *DEAD HORSE*.
> ...



His 20 imaginary friends? Or 20 people that all share the same brain?


----------



## John2016 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > fact is .. sony has a 12% marketshare that is heavily inflated by their dubious statistics.
> ...





https://blog.sony.com/press/nbc-olympics-selects-sony-to-provide-broadcast-and-production-equipment-for-its-coverage-of-the-2016-olympic-games-in-rio/


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> And what does CPS with a room full of cameras and lenses do for me?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> Which to me makes Sony's lack of professional services about as inconveniencing as CPS is convenient.



That room full of lenses is little more than testament to Canon's support of professional clients. It isn't so much Sony's lack of 'professional services' a la CPS, as their quite appalling after-sales support in general. That alone make me hesitant to think about Sony as a viable alternative. 
And were I a working professional, knowing that Canon prioritise their clients in the way they do (as opposed to Sony) would give me confidence that I could continue to earn my money if my camera failed.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



That is video, not stills.


----------



## John2016 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mikehit said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Who talks about stills?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Broadcast equipment... We're talking about apples in here and your defense is to talk about oranges. Nice


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> And what does CPS with a room full of cameras and lenses do for me?


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the world isn't all about you.......


----------



## John2016 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



When I talked about apples?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...




Given the subject of the discussion thread, would you care to provide a _relevant_ link? :

Sony is providing the broadcast video cameras, fine. What lenses do you think those cameras are mounted behind? Smart money would be on Canon DIGISUPER lenses. Have a look at Sony's broadcast camera marketing brochures, you'll see lots of Canon box lenses in them (with the logos photoshopped out).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > And what does CPS with a room full of cameras and lenses do for me?
> ...



That's why dilbert doesn't live in the world, he lives in dilbertland.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...



we're talking a stills camera??!


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



the lenses cost more than the camera.. who wins?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> Sony is providing the broadcast video cameras, fine. What lenses do you think those cameras are mounted behind? Smart money would be on Canon DIGISUPER lenses. Have a look at Sony's broadcast camera marketing brochures, you'll see lots of Canon box lenses in them (with the logos photoshopped out).



Precisely. I didn't even think Sony made any broadcast lenses. We know they barely make any for their MILCs...


----------



## Lenscracker (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

Looks like this will be the first time I refuse to buy an updated 5D camera. Canon seems to have added a lot of things I don't care about and very, very few of the things I do care about. That opinion assumes these rumors are true. Nevertheless, I am happy for all you people out there who buy 5D series cameras in order to shoot video.


----------



## John2016 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sony is providing the broadcast video cameras, fine. What lenses do you think those cameras are mounted behind? Smart money would be on Canon DIGISUPER lenses. Have a look at Sony's broadcast camera marketing brochures, you'll see lots of Canon box lenses in them (with the logos photoshopped out).
> ...



Why Sony should build broadcast lenses?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Why Sony should build broadcast lenses?



They shouldn't.


----------



## tron (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Lenscracker said:


> Looks like this will be the first time I refuse to buy an updated 5D camera. Canon seems to have added a lot of things I don't care about and very, very few of the things I do care about. That opinion assumes these rumors are true. Nevertheless, I am happy for all you people out there who buy 5D series cameras in order to shoot video.


I do not shoot video. However if it improves IQ (like DR in low ISO and 0.5 stop in high ISO) then I get a better camera. That and a better AF system and EC in Auto ISO manual mode (just like 1Dx, 7D2, 5Ds).


----------



## Wesley (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Was hoping MP would still stay in the 20s ;D
Would be nice to put in the auto AF adjustment like Nikon 




Dave Del Real said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > Sony still seems to have "prettier" noise...
> ...


I've always read Canon had too much red tones though ???


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



it's still primarily a stills camera that can record video versus a video camera that can take stills.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Dave Del Real said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > Sony still seems to have "prettier" noise...
> ...



There's this thing called color calibration.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> FWIW I used to routinely use a rule of thumb for determining actual exposure time. Now that cameras have light meters, sunny 16 is less relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Imagine how people who are quibbling over losing a tiny bit of extra resolution to nearly imperceptible camera shake or 'bad glass' would react to the suggestion you shoot at f/16!


----------



## K (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> Dave Del Real said:
> 
> 
> > justsomedude said:
> ...




Sure, but that's yet another post-processing step. That has to be the #1 reason for Canon's popularity among wedding and portrait pros, the accurate and better skin tones and color. That makes a difference. Noise is invisible and meaningless on deliverables (prints, media).


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 11, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



K said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Del Real said:
> ...



I'd go with glass as the number one reason.

With 16-bit color depth, Sony probably produces the best (albeit at a significant price premium) hardware in the industry when it comes to color rendition.


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Is the 5D IV still expected to ship with the new 16-35 III? I haven't heard anything about that in a while. Will we start seeing info on the new lenses soon as well?


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Canon has the opportunity to make a "remarkable" camera and they crap this turd... WTF Canon?

Flame me all you want, I own 3 1DX2's and a 5DSR, was wanting a smaller body 5D-ish body that was more "friendly" and closer to the 1DX2 (I'd even take a 1DX is a smaller body...) in resolution than the monster 5DSR (very "use" specific body for me...) and wanted a more "general" camera... and THIS is what they're giving us?

HUGELY disappointing Canon... I'm really hoping CR is wrong on a few specs but I'm guessing that won't come out to be true...


----------



## scyrene (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > deorum said:
> ...



You've basically summed up what I was gonna say. It's a compromise, but everything is. For people shooting e.g. birds, higher res means more cropping ability, and that can trump any concomittant downsides such as increased pixel-level noise. But if we use that higher res sensor to shoot normal subjects (minimal cropping) and output to a smaller resolution, there's no practical disadvantage to final image quality compared to a lower res sensor.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



on what does sony have 16 bit color depth?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Canon has the opportunity to make a "remarkable" camera and they crap this turd... WTF Canon?
> 
> Flame me all you want, I own 3 1DX2's and a 5DSR, was wanting a smaller body 5D-ish body that was more "friendly" and closer to the 1DX2 (I'd even take a 1DX is a smaller body...) in resolution than the monster 5DSR (very "use" specific body for me...) and wanted a more "general" camera... and THIS is what they're giving us?
> 
> HUGELY disappointing Canon... I'm really hoping CR is wrong on a few specs but I'm guessing that won't come out to be true...



that's kind of weird .. what is being described is a more general camera.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> > With 16-bit color depth, Sony probably produces the best (albeit at a significant price premium) hardware in the industry when it comes to color rendition.
> 
> 
> 
> on what does sony have 16 bit color depth?



Their 101MP MF sensor.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > Canon has the opportunity to make a "remarkable" camera and they crap this turd... WTF Canon?
> ...



No no, you see, a more general camera the way the 1DX2 is a general camera :


----------



## K (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

30MP is a great do-all compromise size. Ton of detail, not as punishing on data/post processing as 5DS. 

I'm in for 5D4 only if it has at least as much DR as the 1DX2. I hope it might edge it out on the low-ISO DR. Certainly won't be better on ISO performance, not expecting that.

7FPS is very welcome. I always predicted that 8 would be just too good and put the camera in a different realm. 7 is fast. 7 is a nice speed. 

Could care less about video.

No CFast is good too.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.

*from a ridiculously tiny sample size, likely fictional.



John2016 said:


> Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications: *(2016)*
> 
> 30.4mp *CHECK*
> 7fps *HM*
> ...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



scyrene said:


> Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.
> 
> *from a ridiculously tiny sample size, likely fictional.
> 
> ...



clearly Sony with it's 12% marketshare completely DOMINATES canon and it's 45% markethshare.

#itsthenewmath


----------



## Wesley (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



K said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Del Real said:
> ...



Lmao...ridiculous reason.

How do you know your monitor is even showing what the camera color is showing?
Do wedding/portrait photographers not print their work? Need color calibration check to printer or printing house.

You're going to have to do that step somewhere.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



K said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Del Real said:
> ...



No it isn't. I assign a profile to every image I import, on import, automatically, same as lens corrections and CA removal.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



And even if it were somehow ponderous, it's difficult to accept that someone who assigns a great deal of importance to color accuracy would simply live with images rendered in camera.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Why Sony should build broadcast lenses?



Why should Canon build broadcast cameras?

Considering that the ratio of lenses to cameras is ≥1, it would seem Canon made the smarter choice. Kinda like how Sony was smart to focus on MILCs, because even though it's a much smaller market, they couldn't successfully compete with CaNikon in the larger dSLR market. Of course, even though Canon is barely trying in the MILC space, as your links show they're in the #3 spot for MILC sales in Japan, just behind Sony who's fallen to #2 in the market segment on which they've chosen to concentrate.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > Why Sony should build broadcast lenses?
> ...



the Sony’s HDC-4300 is around $65,000 to the 900 which is around $80,000 USD.

Canon's digisuper lenses START at $95,000 or so and go to over $150,000 

who's more happy?


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...



Probably depends on the markup.

Incidentally, what do broadcast lenses do that cinema lenses don't? It's a market I've never researched.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



haven't seen a cini lens that is 18.6 ~ 1600mm equivalent yet


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> Incidentally, what do broadcast lenses do that cinema lenses don't? It's a market I've never researched.



This post has a link to a nice clip about broadcasting from Fenway Park. Cool moon shot at the end!

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12260.msg218060#msg218060


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Wow! I presume not at a constant aperture?


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Incidentally, what do broadcast lenses do that cinema lenses don't? It's a market I've never researched.
> ...



Ah, the infamous post! I'll check the video. Thanks.


----------



## Perio (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > > With 16-bit color depth, Sony probably produces the best (albeit at a significant price premium) hardware in the industry when it comes to color rendition.
> ...



I guess your P1 XF requires much less, if any, skintone correction than Sony.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



f 1.7-4.0 

however to be fair that's 18.6 to 800mm .. it has a built in 2x extender.


----------



## marvinhello (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



deorum said:


> OK, i've seen the new updated rumor, and correct me if i am wrong because i admit i have a lot of things to learn in video.
> 
> Since the bitrate is the same as 1dx2 in most settings (500mbps), do i think that the limitation to not shot 120fps @ 1080p, is not a hardware issue?
> I know 1dx2 can reach as high as 800mbps with a CFAST for 60fps/4K, but unless my math is wrong, 500mbps should be enough, and of enough quality, for 120fps 1080p (1/4th of the 30fps/4K).



It's limited by sensor readout speed.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Perio said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Which is why the XF literature states "Professional Color Management and Digital Photography are as essential as the hardware when it comes to perfect results."


----------



## tron (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



rbielefeld said:


> How many fps at 30mp? That is the question I have now. Glad to see 30mp. This will be a good small, perched bird camera for me. I have the 1DxII for my fast action birds in flight. The 5DIV at 30mp will do the small bird job.


Hmmm, now there will be three bird cameras. You could use 5DIV for the big - not small - birds and 5DsR for the small ones. Choices, choices


----------



## Taylorpilot (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

So I don't see any mention of DPAF? I know it was believed that would be a feature earlier in the year. Is it off the list now?


----------



## cjzajac (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

What do you mean the new 5D IV won't shoot 60p 4:4:4 8K with zero noise up to ISO 6400 and while preparing me a perfect beef bourguignon!?!?!? How about a perfect french omelet while shooting 50 MP stills at 14 fps with no noise and in perfect focus of a subject moving erratically at 150 mph??? No?

Oh Canon you've let me down.


I get a kick out of reading all the comments about what Canon should included. So many want it to be the greatest and last camera they will every need. Tech keeps improving. It's always incremental. There will be another generation EOS-5D or maybe a EOS-3D or maybe someday an EOS-TK421D. All the specs I seen look good to me. I would like to see 8fps, but I can live with 7 fps. There is always the 1DX II for mega still fps. I will definitely be considering the Mark IV to add to my equipment when it arrives.


----------



## Perio (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> Perio said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



So, if XF requires barely any color correction, why do you suggest process thousands of photographs taken with Sony rather than have great skintones with Canon straight from the camera?


----------



## RBC5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

If you don't mind my bringing this back to the original post for a second, I have a question...

There are 'sources' giving these new specs for the IV, but what about that original thing that is new to DSLRs that was teased a while ago? Any sources happen to know what that is?


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Perio said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Perio said:
> ...



1) I think there is a language barrier because I didn't suggest doing anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out that what is likely the state-of-the-art I/O devices in digital color photography (outside perhaps some scientific instruments) are designed and build by Sony, thus dismissing the notion that Sony has ugly color science.


2) The XF requires no more and no less color correction than any other camera. Profile your camera and apply the profile when you import. Also, calibrate your display(s) and printers. When I import from my Canon cameras and import from my Sony cameras, the tones appear the same; my workflow is calibrated.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



cjzajac said:


> It's always incremental. There will be another generation EOS-5D or maybe a EOS-3D or maybe someday an EOS-TK421D.



That may work for you, personally I'm going to hold out for the EOS-THX1138D.


----------



## Perio (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> Perio said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



1. I do not think it's correct to assume that the sensors from let's say a7rii and XF have the same skintone rendition. 
2. XF, like Hassy and Leica S, requires almost no correction of skintones. I almost never correct skintone from my Leica S.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Tone rendition is entirely due to software, and since I shoot raw, the camera's software is irrelevant.


----------



## Mr. Milo (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Taylorpilot said:


> So I don't see any mention of DPAF? I know it was believed that would be a feature earlier in the year. Is it off the list now?



I'm not worried about DPAF. Mark IV will have it. The real question is will this thing have C-log has mentioned by DigitalRev. He sounds sure of it. We'll see.

I'm disappointed at the 120 FPS at 720p. Lame of Canon to do that. Why? I don't get it.


----------



## DslmNut (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

You think that Dual Pixel focus is a given, or do I need to ask if it will have that?


----------



## unfocused (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



DslmNut said:


> You think that Dual Pixel focus is a given, or do I need to ask if it will have that?



It is a given.


----------



## MrToes (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Would love to see some of the Sensor Technology of the 1DX II in the 5d IV! What if they would release an all new revolutionary sensor in the Mark IV? I know I'm dreaming, it would slow down the 1DX sales down. DPAF in stills would be very nice to play with!


----------



## Go Wild (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Hello Guys, 

Wow! more than 400 comments...at least surely is an expected camera!!  

I read them all but just going to focus ont last ones. 

1 - It is normal that most of us expect different things, like most of us have different photography fields. It´s kinda strange to argue if the camera is good, or bad because it can only fullfill or not our needs. We can say that it´s not an apropriate camera for us, but to put it in general it´s not correct! Neither criticizing, nor not accepting that it´s not good. 

2 - It is also not really normal, video guys come here blasting the new camera because the camera it´s not a monster in video! Really guys???? I know that in these days whe want everything in a camera, but seriously? Do you want a full dedicated video camera in a DSLR still camera? Can you complain to be able to buy a primarily still camera that makes all of this? Why don´t you go for a video dedicated camera?? Buy a Red Epic, a blackmagic, or a Sony! Well, or buy some of the cinema cameras in Canon! I am sorry, bu i cannot take seriously one person that claims that cannot work with 30fps 4k, or it cannot work with 1080p! If that person can´t work with this, he must be a trully mega filmmaker with a huge budget! If someone cannot work with this you must work with a Red one! Not a DSLR!!! and of course 120fps would be great at 1080p! But for that, you have 1dx II. Canon just simply cannot canibalize machines!! It cannot deliver you everything in every machine! 

3 - Sony guys....come on! Sony can have a great sensor, it has. But i would never work professionaly with a Sony, for a loooot of reasons! Being able to grab the shot it not only about the sensor! I see a lot of guys struggling with their A7 RII 3200 thousand dollar camera, because bateries just dry and they need 10 bateries for a job of 1 hour, or missing the focus and getting crazy about nailing the focus. This is real world in my world! Sony for me, it has a great image but it´s not an option....period! But thats just me! 

4- Finishing, i just love my 5D MkIII and i really like the specs of the 5DIV. But i think i am not going to get it, because 7D markII for me was a disaster and i am going to sell the 2 bodys to get the 1D xII. 

But honestly.....The camera with the confirmed specs is going to be a great all around camera! You can make mostly everything with her. Will be nice for wildlife and sports (7fps is not quite excelent but it´s enough), will be nice for weddings, for landscape and other purposes like video! But we do need to see, how it manages in real life, and things about iso noise, DR, and overall image quality...

That´s my thougts....Sorry about any english mistake...


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

[quote author=Go Wild]I see a lot of guys struggling with their A7 RII *3200 thousand dollar *camera
[/quote]

That's some markup!

Seriously, though, I wouldn't bring my A7R II to shoot fast moving sports, animals, or long lens use, but for every else I use it more than my 5D bodies.

Chances are I'll replace my 5D3s with the upcoming model as mine are showing some wear and tear. The make or break for me will be form factor. If they make changes which obsolete my accessories, I'll buy a couple more 5D3s, but I don't expect that they will.


----------



## Go Wild (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> [quote author=Go Wild]I see a lot of guys struggling with their A7 RII *3200 thousand dollar *camera



That's some markup!

Seriously, though, I wouldn't bring my A7R II to shoot fast moving sports, animals, or long lens use, but for every else I use it more than my 5D bodies.
[/quote]

I dont see how it is a markup...it the price of a Sony in this moment....body only, if you want to use canon lenses you have to buy the metabones wich are also expensives...
I have said it´s my opinion in what i see...for you it could be fine! But i see the guys struggling in events!!  And i just smile!


----------



## John2016 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



scyrene said:


> Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.



Would something change if I tell you that this 20 users are top D.P in Los Angeles? (Using Sony as on set or B and C camera)
Not a "majority" of Canon users but for sure more knowledgeable "readers" of the moving image then majority here in the forum... 

Something about Sony vs Canon colour science:
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/11/sony-vs-canon-colour-science-does-this-explain-the-difference/

*Great* 1dx mkII:
http://www.eoshd.com/2016/05/canon-1d-x-mark-ii-high-iso-and-colour-performance-worse-than-predecessor/

Canon 80D video: *(Welcome in 2016)*
http://www.eoshd.com/2016/03/short-note-canon-80d-has-no-improvement-in-video-quality/


----------



## Taylorpilot (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Go Wild said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > [quote author=Go Wild]I see a lot of guys struggling with their A7 RII *3200 thousand dollar *camera
> ...




I dont see how it is a markup...it the price of a Sony in this moment....body only, if you want to use canon lenses you have to buy the metabones wich are also expensives...
I have said it´s my opinion in what i see...for you it could be fine! But i see the guys struggling in events!!  And i just smile!  
[/quote]

He was playing. 3200 thousand is $3.2 million


----------



## Gnocchi (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I think that the lens pictured in the photo is anew 50mm. It looks different around the switch area than the current 50mm L. 
What do ya think?


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Taylorpilot said:


> Go Wild said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



He was playing. 3200 thousand is $3.2 million
[/quote]

What's $3,196,800 between internet friends?


----------



## Go Wild (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Taylorpilot said:


> Go Wild said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...


----------



## John2016 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Go Wild said:


> Taylorpilot said:
> 
> 
> > Go Wild said:
> ...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.
> ...



bahahaha. I'd love to see the top 20 DP's in LA using A7's as a B cam.

proof.


----------



## Go Wild (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Go Wild said:
> 
> 
> > Taylorpilot said:
> ...


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Canon is sleeping....*on huge piles of cash profits.*



FTFY.

Seriously, do you expect Canon to make your ideal camera or a product that makes profits?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> He is just "one" of the users in the industry who left Canon...
> 
> And here another *CANON* user:
> 
> ...



he didn't leave canon.. one of his also favorite cameras is the Cxxx series.

and so what really?

that's 20 cameras.. do you realize how many thousands upon thousands canon will sell to actual photographers?

get a grip


----------



## RBC5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> get a grip



Haha! Good camera pun.


----------



## John2016 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



> And I respect and understand....but...should we all leave Canon because someone leaves? LEt me tell you about my experience. I already won a few prizes in photography, i do make nature documentarys and guess what, sometimes i even use the DJI OSMO to film!!! How about that?
> But...should i leave Canon, that alredy gave me so much, because someone says that Sony is the better? Or should i go to Fujifilm because old days are cool?
> My point is.....the most important is that you feel good working ith your equipment and when you deliver the work, your client be happy! That´s all it matters!!



great post!


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> > And I respect and understand....but...should we all leave Canon because someone leaves? LEt me tell you about my experience. I already won a few prizes in photography, i do make nature documentarys and guess what, sometimes i even use the DJI OSMO to film!!! How about that?
> > But...should i leave Canon, that alredy gave me so much, because someone says that Sony is the better? Or should i go to Fujifilm because old days are cool?
> > My point is.....the most important is that you feel good working ith your equipment and when you deliver the work, your client be happy! That´s all it matters!!
> 
> ...



+1

And low ISO DR.

(Couldn't resist)


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

The Next 5 series camera will be a evolvement of the current one, not a revolutionary product. Thus it has ever been!

That's the Canon formula, it has worked for 40 years, so they stick to it.

Canon sets goals for a new camera model 3 or 4 years ahead of its planned release, and then spends a huge amount of effort squeezing every penny out of the cost to manufacture it. Every feature has a price, and adding features has to be justified to some very deaf management.

It would not surprise me if the cost to manufacturer a new 5D MK IV is around $1200 USD. Canon recovers a lot of their tooling and development investment early on in a program, but are also able to cut prices so sharply that the competition can't hope to match the prices. They are not going to do that unless forced to by slow sales, but if necessary, I believe that they can cut the price to $2000 and still make a profit.

Its becoming difficult for me to get excited about a evolutionary new product, I'll consider buying one after the first price drop, and only if it has features that I will use. My 5D MK III is a work horse in small form factor compared to 1 series bodies and I love it, so a big improvement is needed.


----------



## Rejay14 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I've read all the way through this discussion. I have a 5D3 and 7D2, with 40D backup. I have yet to have a client say to me:

"Oh my god, you only shot this with a 5D3... the colour rendition is horrible and if I had wanted you to shoot 4K you wouldn't have been able to :'( . 

All they say is, quote from a client today BTW:"Hi Jeff, Looks great, thank you! fyi Evolve - and everyone I've shown them too -thinks your photos are amazing."






Stupid 5D3 codecs and no DPAF losing me so many jobs :'( :'( I'm being facetious.. I shoot videos of my grandson, that's it. Maybe I'll keep the 7DII/18-135 STM and charge additional fees for video. 

If the 5D4 can allow me to dump the 7DII, I'll do it. I'm very underwhelmed with this camera. I hope for 8fps, CFAST (since I bought some at 50% discounts this spring when the 1DXII started shipping) more DR (gotta happen anyway) and some bells and whistles. I've gotten the CamRanger and two Eye-Fi Mobi pro cards so wifi is even blah to me. It would be a nice add-on if it had range and solid connectivity.

In the real world, clients have no idea what they want. We provide better stuff than their iPhones do, so it's all good. 

The 1DXII shutter is still too noisy for me, the 1DX was a freaking machine gun. 




I was embarrassed at times with the noise it made. 

I'm good with a jack-of-all-cameras better than my 5D3, with which I cannot ever seem to screw up the focus with. (I wonder if it actually reads my mind sometimes lol). 

I had the 5DII, sold it in months for a 5D3, will probably never sell that body. If 5D4 is not suitable, then I'll get a 1DXII and adapt. I understand that many want to pick apart camera specs, some of us just make a decision, buy it or don't, then shoot it if we have it. Remember: it's not real yet, don't argue too hard!! 8)


----------



## John2016 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



This is what I hear every day:
http://billtotolo.blogspot.com/2015/06/sony-a7s-shooting-feature-with-pair-of.html

This is from 2015:
"In the end, I’m extremely pleased with the images we captured. I honestly don’t think
anyone is going to guess we shot on a DSLR. I’m glad we used the a7s under these circumstances.
I’d only consider selling the a7s if Sony releases a version with In Body Image Stabilization, and it would be nice to be able to control ISO in SLog.

As small as the camera is, it gets heavy quickly and using the gimbal all day is
exhausting. In the future I would seriously consider using a readyrig, or easyrig."

and here something for the canon CR masters: 
"For a $2,500 camera with high frame rates to be producing sharp 1080p and dynamic range close to an ARRI is quite a feat."
http://nofilmschool.com/2014/07/sony-a7s-dynamic-range-arri-alexa-amira

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/08/25/sony-a7s-a-game-changer-for-film-making/

http://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/1872-we-see-how-good-the-alpha-7s-really-is-in-a-cinema

Back to the ULTRA, SUPER NEW or *already old*...., 3 years in development camera: Canon 5dMk4...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...


and again. this is primarily a stills camera.

while the 5d started something that was rather unanticipated, canon isn't going to change the nature of a stills camera just for 20 odd people that will purchase it.

not to mention your only bitch is the CODEC.. the rest is the same as every other camera to date, with probably less overheating. things like zebras, peaking,etc you have clue on yet.

carry on though.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> This is from 2015:
> "In the end, I’m extremely pleased with the images we captured. I honestly don’t think
> anyone is going to guess we shot on a DSLR. I’m glad we used the a7s under these circumstances.
> I’d only consider selling the a7s if Sony releases a version with In Body Image Stabilization, and it would be nice to be able to control ISO in SLog.



Any professional image maker that thinks an a7s is a DSLR isn't one I'd be very interested in getting advice from.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

still not sure if I sell my 5D3+A7R II pair for this or sell a7R II and add a7R III or something in a while

A7R II sensor sets a pretty high bar for low ISO stills non-action work and it sets a pretty darn high bar for 4k video, no waxy hint at all, better detail (while remaining entirely natural) than even 1DC and, although a real pain, ML RAW HD video from 5D3 is hard to beat for HD since you get so much better than locked in 8bit garbage and you can even do still perhaps unique for low end and shoot in wide gamut (the RAW is a real pain though and such an HD killer, a total drag and quite an expense after a while).

Of course it would be nice to have one camera do it all. 5D3 sure as heck does not, but A7R II kinda lags for anything action and adapters are always a pain and so on.

Wish they had made the 5D4 video 10 bit to actually put them at the forefront for once, it's so sad that Canon, so often leading the charge has become such a follower and it might really need that to make up for other likely deficits. It surely better have 100% view live focusing box and zebras and DPAF. (And don't give me this trolling nonsense, I've been a Canon fan (note not fanboy, there is a difference) and shooter since before a few, although not all, of the rabid fanboy attack dogs here were even born. And I really don't give a whit whether they manage enough sales to not care or not, nobody takes pics or videos with sales whether they come from playing it uber conservatively and just barely doing enough to not drive everyone away or charge forward and do great stuff.

And for stills it better finally have real EXMOR level, even 80D and 1DC just still don't cut it. Better but not the full amount to really start making it useful in forest interior scenarios and some other often encountered outdoor scenarios.

The 30MP isn't bad, still not the reach of a 7D or even A7R II, but least it's just enough that you should notice the extra reach a bit compared to 5D3. And 7fps is pretty nice. Needs to have a nice buffer too.

I do wonder a bit if a Nikon D820 might not manage 42MP 6fps and then 8fps in a slight crop mode and with top video and DR and all.


----------



## hne (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Common features found in broadcast lenses that aren't common for cine lenses:
Bizarre zoom ratios
Zoom preset points
Motorised zoom
Digital realtime, highly accurate, readout of current zoom/focus/aperture (really important for vr/ar)


----------



## plam_1980 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



romanr74 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > romanr74 said:
> ...


----------



## tpatana (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



So you should film all the DP scenes with Sony? I'm not sure if I'm following you guys.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

If Canon asked me:

~36Mp (the number that was needed for 4k binning, was it 36? or 46?)
DPAF
4k60
1080p120
720p240
CF (unless video BW requires CFast. In that case CFast)
Wifi
Anti-flicker
Super-silent shutter


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I rekon I will have one, I'd have a 1DX2 if it were not for that shutter noise!!! Sold my Mk1 and stuck with the 5D3, love the silent shutter on the 5D3, so 30MP Mk4.... Ok then...


----------



## plam_1980 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



davidj said:


> AdamBotond said:
> 
> 
> > Is it only me being a bit disappointed about the major MP increase (30 MP)? Not that I don't appreciate MP increase, on the otherhand now we can take it granted the not much improvement in IQ (high iso, dynamic range) compared to 5D III will take place (if any at all).
> ...



I don't understand the equalization logic - why would you buy a camera with more megapixels only to downsize the image, so the noise will be the same as older cameras...


----------



## PaulMackX (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Back to the ULTRA, SUPER NEW or *already old*...., 3 years in development camera: Canon 5dMk4...



Out of curiosity, how long should a camera be in development? My Canon EOS 7D is/was a great camera, 'despite' being in development from 1987 to 2009. The 7D Mark II is even better, and it was in development from 2009 to 2014.

I'm using the basis that each product line is on an independent development cycle, which I think you were inferring.

I could alternatively use the basis that they are all on the same development life cycle, and that the EOS 80D was in development for just 17 days! Must it be incredible? Or is there a curve? Where's the sweet spot? Ah yes, however long Sony takes.

Anyway, I took from your comment that 3 years in development was a bad thing, and too long, but didn’t see any logic in that.

As for me, the rumoured specifications are very interesting, and I'm now more likely to buy it.


----------



## Pebbles (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Already out of date.


----------



## Ladislav (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I tried to read most of this thread - especially the part after update but I gave up. Just ton of complains.

In first rumors it was mentioned that IV could be something like 24MP without any 4k - and there was ton of rant that the camera will be terrible with such specs. 

Now it seems, that we will get camera that will have 30MP many people were calling for and it will have 4k and we have again ton of rant.

It has only 7fps - wow, not such a surprise with 30MP sensor and most probably single DIGIC chip. Yes, it could have 8-9fps with 24MP but MPs are probably more important for marketing. 

It has some 4k features. It was quite clear where the bar for 4k features is after final 1DX2 spec were released and I'm not surprised that it actually has worse spec to make some difference between 5DIV and 1DX2 which cost twice that much.

People simply have unrealistic expectations and need to flood forums with their frustration of not getting the toy they dreamed for.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



plam_1980 said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > AdamBotond said:
> ...



It gives you options.
In good lighting noise is less of an issue but you can use the 5DSR to provide greater resolution and options for cropping than the 5D3. In low light you can downsample the 5DSR to match the 5D3 which means you lose nothing.


----------



## whothafunk (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Pebbles said:


> Already out of date.


so is your mom.


----------



## jonneymendoza (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

hi all.

Canon are about to announce the new 5d series camera in a couple of weeks time and i am sure some of you are eager to find out what specs/improvements it will have.



what i personally want from the sequel to the 5d4 to make it worthwhile to upgrade are the following:


Built in IS in the body
Wifi so i can transfer high res JPEGS to my phone on the fly
dual Compact flash or dual CFast cards(skip sd card slot altogether
8-10fps
30mp+ sensor
DR thats as good or better then the A7r2
1 stop or more better ISO performance compared to 5d3
Able to remotely control the camera and take images using my android phone connected to the camera
AF that matches the 1dxmk2
So far only a handful of the above have been almost confirmed such as the mp count and wifi.

Do note that regardless of what specs is in this camera, it will most likely not be upgraded again for the next 4-5 years. Had canon upgraded there cameras every 2 years, i could live with minimal improvements over the 5d3 but because we will have just this camera for the next 4-5 years, tech and specs will be outdated rapidly especially when the likes of sony keep innovating and churning out new cameras and tech/features almost once a year.


Surely Sony will catch up in the areas it is lacking such as AF and buffer/speed within the next 2 years way in the lifecycle of the 5d4 and possibly surpass it in every shape and form?


That is my worry. It seems that canon are like iOS,. its reliable and does the job well but compared to Android, it is lacking in some killer features and nowadays, Android has a larger market share and more fanbase then iOS now.


Will canon continue to do do incremental updates on there bodies once every 4 years or will they either churn out more incremental updates every 2 years? Or for every 4 years, do a major upgrade/change?


If they include all the stuff i mentioned, that to me is a major update .


What do you guys think?


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



plam_1980 said:


> I don't understand the equalization logic - why would you buy a camera with more megapixels only to downsize the image, so the noise will be the same as older cameras...



There's no "equalization logic". And no one ever "downsizes" their pictures. Please understand there is *always only *your end result - be it a 700x700 instagram posting to a billboard. 

In addition noise is not the only factor. In fact I think there's a lot of noise hysteria out there. Just like's there's lots of DR hysteria. We of course all want better, and fortunately we can choose from a wide range of different "packages". However, here MPIX also counts and more is in fact better for a lot of uses. 

Apart from that noise, color, DR, WB, banding, anti-flickr etc. - in fact every aspect of the potential output of the 5DS/R - is better than the 5DIII sensor. So in this sense we can have our cake and eat it.

That's why I like to believe the 5DIV will offer even more of an improvement than the 5DS/R sensor - which would make for a real jump up in picture IQ from the 5DIV the 5DIII which we did not get with the 5DIII over the 5DII. Time will tell.

If you want a low MPIX camera with ultra high iso - SONY is there for you.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


Why would I buy the 5DS to do "run & gun". No I bought it mainly for landscape, on a tripod and to be used between 100-400 iso. I have used it on a safari in Africa this year and aside for poor low light shots its held up very well and allowed for cropping heavily when needed and that was without a tripod at all using a bean bag mainly from the open vehicle. Its also a really great portrait camera where I generally use a monopod. 

I don't believe a single tool can do everything that's why I also have the 6D and use a 760D sparingly.


----------



## Phil Lowe (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



raptor3x said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards.
> ...



The rumored 500 Mbps MJPEG video codec represents a bit rate of 62.5 MBps. Here is what a blog at B&H reports:

The Fastest CompactFlash Cards

Because the maximum speed of CompactFlash cards has been capped at 167 MB/s, for a while almost all card manufacturers offer cards capable of peak read and write performance at that speed. The fastest cards will be UDMA 7 and advertised as having maximum read speeds between 160-165 MB/s. Lexar’s fastest line of CompactFlash cards is the Lexar Professional, available in capacities between 16GB and 256GB._* Lexar rates these cards as having a 160 MB/s maximum write speed and 155 MB/s maximum read speed, as well as a minimum write speed of 65 MB/s.*_ SanDisk’s Extreme Pro line of cards also offers similar performance of up to 160 MB/s read and 150 MB/s write speeds, while the Transcend Ultimate and Delkin Devices Cinema CompactFlash card lines also offer similar maximum read speeds, though their write speeds are a bit slower than the Lexar and SanDisk cards. All of these cards are as fast as CompactFlash cards are going to get—if you want something faster, you will need a different type of memory card.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/fastest-memory-cards-money-can-buy

Any CF card capable of sustained write speeds of 90 MBps or more will be fast enough to record 500 Mbps 4K video, so using the CF format isn't going to be an issue. What is troubling is this nugget from the same blog linked above:

"CompactFlash cards used to be the faster and more professional big brother of SD cards; however, _*several years ago, the CompactFlash Association announced there would be no more updates to the format*_, leaving card performance with a glass ceiling."

So while CF will do the job, using CF means that Canon has knowingly built obsolescence into its latest pro camera. That's not comforting.

What is comforting - and something no one appears to be stoked about - is the rumored 4:2:2 color sub-sampling of the video codec. 4:2:2 is most definitely one indicator of a pro video codec, as it is excellent for visual effects work, especially when it comes to pulling clean chroma keys and performing advanced color grading. I could easily see this camera doing professional 4K visual effects work, providing the video quality is on par with the color sub-sampling. 

30 MP doesn't excite me, neither does touch screen control (who wants to review images through greasy fingerprint smudges?) And 7 fps in burst mode? Only if they've increased the buffer and taken the write limiter off. 

This spec list is a mixed bag, with little to excite everyone. What will turn heads will be the IQ coming out of this camera IF it is clean at high ISO with great DR. IMHO.


----------



## jonneymendoza (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

i do not care about video features to be honest


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...


Lets put what you've put forwards into perspective. The Sony A7S get used in mainstream movies or TV as the 3rd or 4th camera rarely. Look at all the main movies or TV drama shows and Arri Alexas & Amiras dominate followed by Red Dragons. The Alexa Mini is racing off of Arri factory floor and these cameras are lensed by Zeiss, Cookes, Panavision, Leica * Angeniuex in the main. Canon hardly get a look in with the C300 MKII or C500 or with their Cine lenses. That may change with the C700 & Anamorphic lenses but right now they are a bit player high end. Sony most successful camera for TV drama is the F55 which is a solid camera but not user friendly in the Alexa way, its due a new raw recorder which will make it more compelling. 

The A7S is an often used tool for internet commercials but frankly its not a serious tool for TV Drama or Features trust me as someone that runs a business at this level the A7S II is not on our shopping list or our competitors.


----------



## joshx (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I am not a professional and just shoot environmental portraits of my wife and my daughter's dancing and skating performances. I have three L lenses and a 6d. Also have fuji xt10 and 18-55, 55-200. 

I like the new 35mm 1.4 II, and plan to buy it. But I am kind of disappointed on the new 5d iv: no [email protected] Can anyone tell me if that is essential for shooting my daughter's performances? Plus I really like Nikon and sony's DR, which I think to be important in shooting environmental portraits. but I looked at nikon and sony offers on 35mm 1.4, unimpressive. I currently have 16-35 f4, 24-70 2.8 and 100mm IS and will certainly add 70-200 2.8 IS and crop body( I just sold my 60D), if I stay with canon. I love how canon camera and lens handle, don't like nikon's gold and sony's orange, but I really don't want to give up IQ and [email protected] Certainly, I can go buy the 1D II, but six grand for a camera, I rather put my money on lenses. 

Any thoughts will be helpful


----------



## AWR (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Phil Lowe said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...


Right, however Magic Lantern has already hit that glass ceiling. 
And that's the problem with CF cards.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.
> ...



Yes, what changes is that while before it was merely quite likely, now it's a certainty that you're talking out of your ass. Well done!


----------



## George D. (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I don't know why videographers don't demand the best video specs from the 5DS/SR and leave Mk. III/IV alone. Shoot the 28Mp option with 4K/8K. Obviously everybody would wish a cheap top-of-the-line DSLR to do the job of an expensive cinema EOS, well the 5D Mk. IV is not one of them.


----------



## zim (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> Would something change if I tell you that this 20 users are top D.P in Los Angeles?



Ahh... I've missed that old Miekle-esque banter


----------



## Ladislav (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



jonneymendoza said:


> hi all.
> 
> Canon are about to announce the new 5d series camera in a couple of weeks time and i am sure some of you are eager to find out what specs/improvements it will have.
> 
> ...



What do I think? Go and buy Sony as your dream list will not happen.


----------



## George D. (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Anyway, present (CR3) rumored specs are just a glimpse. What about sensor IQ. This is a new 30.4Mp sensor, wisely placed just above the 28Mp option of the 5DS/SR for no direct comparison, which must be way better than the Mk. III and industry leading. Any photo samples from the test "ambassadors"?


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Can some of the people who call color rendition of Canon cameras horrid please describe their workflow equipment and environment?


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > This is from 2015:
> ...



That could be narrow minded...


----------



## RGF (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

GPS is a welcome addition


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sharlin said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage said:
> ...



Just take some facts...

 I love the fact that you're OK with sub par performance from your new "general" camera... and given the fact that Canon has taken as long as they have to update the 5D3 and they're giving you THIS and you can't even see how sub par it is shocks me given what else is on the market...

Let's walk through some numbers...

The 5DS/5DSR will "process" roughly (give or take depending on many factors but I just took some recent out door images I shot) 360 MB/s of "file data". This is using 72 MB per file times the 5 FPS that the 5DSR will shoot.

The 1DX2 will "process" (same give or takes, but from recent files...) 308 MB/s. This is using 22 MB files at 14 FPS.

I know those are rough figures and all the factors that can change...

Your new 5D4, if we take something in between, and I'll even go to the higher side just to accommodate the higher side of what a 30 Mgpix file might produce... Let's say a 40 MB file... your new 5D4, that also claims to do similar 4K video to the 1DX2 (which the 5DSR will not...) will only do 280 MB/s. (I think you'd be safe to say that my 40 MB file is actually going going come in more around 34-36ish which makes the numbers even worse (238-252...) so my feeling is even more pointed that Canon is following the 5D3 with a sub par option...)

So, I'm not a rocket scientist but when the 5DSR will move more data than the 5D4 (with what we know are older processors...) and the 5D4 is a newer, "general" camera... I'm sorry... I'm really scratching my head why you're OK with this hinderance of their 5D line. Let it go Canon, make it special!!

If you want more, look at the sensor size.... We know that there are people out there getting 4K from the 5D3... of course Canon's not likely happy that people are hacking their beloved 5D3 but holy crap Canon, get off the pot here... anyway, look at what would be the next jump, 8K. We KNOW that Canon is working on 8K in their cinema line... not saying that we should have 8K in a DSLR now but just consider this... 8K (7680×4320) is 33.1776 megapix. We know that the aspect ration of video is different than stills... do I need to say more? I know a lot of people don't care about video in what they're buying as a still camera... however... 30.4 megapix... How are they going to be handling 4K out of this one that's going to make it make any sense? They're not even making the 4K video as good as the 1DC (spec wise...)... if they just simply put the 1DC in the 5D body they'd be "better"... (and they do have the capacity to do that... by just simply putting in scrap parts...)

(I'm not going to bring in the 7D2 performance cause it's just more of the same, the 7D2 processor is on par with the 1DX2 in terms of MB/s processed... so... Canon? WTF!)

I mentioned that I'm hoping the CR specs are wrong... I REALLY hope CR's got some numbers wrong because this 5D4 is pretty seriously hindered and it's not even on the street yet so something else that's not in the specs is going to have to be awfully special or Canon's gonna get flamed for this one at the checkout counter. There are TOO many other options that us diehard Canon guys have to kinda ignore when we have so much Canon glass but the general consumer that have one or two lenses (or even if you're moving up from the 80D and ONLY have EF-S lenses) can fully examine and see that Canon's STILL behind the rest of the world. DO NOT take that as a "Sony fan boy" type of statement because I HATE Sony cameras... but come on Canon, really, this is all you can do? It's pretty simple to see that's NOT true...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> I mentioned that I'm hoping the CR specs are wrong... I REALLY hope CR's got some numbers wrong because this 5D4 is pretty seriously hindered and it's not even on the street yet so something else that's not in the specs is going to have to be awfully special or Canon's gonna get flamed for this one at the checkout counter.



The specs are quite likely correct. So...don't buy one – I'm sure Canon will be heartbroken. :

A camera with those specs will do just fine in the market, your objections notwithstanding.


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > I mentioned that I'm hoping the CR specs are wrong... I REALLY hope CR's got some numbers wrong because this 5D4 is pretty seriously hindered and it's not even on the street yet so something else that's not in the specs is going to have to be awfully special or Canon's gonna get flamed for this one at the checkout counter.
> ...



... but with SUCH an easy opportunity to make it something special... SO easy and yet... Come on Neuro, even you have to agree this isn't the "best" they can do... you're the wise analytical one on here generally... the one that didn't upgrade his 1DX because the X2 isn't enough better...


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage said:
> ...



People forget: the goal of any corporation is not "special," it's "profitable." "Special" costs special amounts of money to develop and support. New and innovative features can be less reliable for pros who rely on them to "just work."



> Come on Neuro, even you have to agree this isn't the "best" they can do...



Of course it isn't, but that doesn't matter at all. Nikon and Sony (and others) keep putting out their "best" stuff and keep getting killed by Canon in the market. Rather than gripe about Canon, people should gripe that those other companies haven't fixed whatever is wrong with their products to make them better sellers.



> you're... the one that didn't upgrade his 1DX because the X2 isn't enough better...



If a few hundred thousand others made the same decision it would affect Canon's market strategy; one, or even a few thousand, will not.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> ... but with SUCH an easy opportunity to make it something special... SO easy and yet... Come on Neuro, even you have to agree this isn't the "best" they can do... you're the wise analytical one on here generally... the one that didn't upgrade his 1DX because the X2 isn't enough better...



Yeah, you're totally right. They should have made the 5DIV with 10 fps, unlimited buffer, 200 cross-type f/8 points, and real gold-plating and sold it for $600 including the 24-70/2.8L II as a kit lens. Such a missed opportunity for Canon to make it 'special'. :




Orangutan said:


> People forget: the goal of any corporation is not "special," it's "profitable."



_Some_ people...


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Orangutan said:


> > Come on Neuro, even you have to agree this isn't the "best" they can do...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it isn't, but that doesn't matter at all.



WHAT! OK... you said it's not about making special, it's about making money... the way Canon now makes money is selling bodies and lenses... they have a consumer that has the glass so they now need to make something compelling enough that they will upgrade... which is in this case a body we're talking about... and you're saying that it's OK that we're not going to upgrade... a person that is on the Canon hook for essentially life, isn't going to upgrade to a body that is aimed at them... and that's your plan for Canon making money?

I absolutely will concede they're going to sell a lot of these cameras, I'll might get one too simply because it does/has things my wife wants in our family camera that other's won't have (FF, touch screen) but your logic of it not mattering that the people that the body is really aimed at won't be upgrading is not working for me...

Canon has made a lot of little incremental changes to the 1DX2 that are very specifically aimed at 1DX users and having had four 1DX bodies and now three 1DX2 bodies, I appreciate those little things even more the more I use the camera... however I'm going back and looking at the 5D3 specs again to see if that's not the camera I'm going to buy (after already having had two...) instead of the 5D4 because for what I'm wanting in a camera of this type, there's only one thing that this offers me that the 5D3 doesn't... a touch screen... and now I need to make the decision if a touch screen is worth $1k.... 

A few "better" specs on this 5D4 and I'm all over it... but, and I agree, this spec list is likely spot on... but... Really Canon?


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > ... but with SUCH an easy opportunity to make it something special... SO easy and yet... Come on Neuro, even you have to agree this isn't the "best" they can do... you're the wise analytical one on here generally... the one that didn't upgrade his 1DX because the X2 isn't enough better...
> ...



My aren't we snarky this morning...


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



romanr74 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...



Why?

Why would I take camera advice from somebody who doesn't even know what type of camera they are using?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> they have a consumer that has the glass so they now need to make something compelling enough that they will upgrade...



I am not sure that upgraders are their target (or the target of any serious camera manufacturer). I suspect their main target is people 'upgrading' from APS-C or the 6D to a camera more suited to wildlife/sports. That is what keeps their reputation high.




instaimage said:


> *I'll might get one too* simply because it does/has things my wife wants in our family camera that other's won't have (FF, touch screen)


It seems current specs are worth upgrading for.
So remind me precisely what it is that Canon have done wrong?


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## Orangutan (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



R is for reflex. No mirror. It's definitely in the same "class" as a DSLR, but without the R.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> ...I agree, this spec list is likely spot on... but... Really Canon?



You're disappointed. We get it...but really, so what? Canon has been making dSLRs for a long time, and they've demonstrated an excellent track record of predicting what the market as a whole wants in a dSLR. So the evidence in favor of them having chosen correctly for spec set in the 5DIV – correctly meaning what features will yield the most profit – is well over a decade of selling more dSLRs than anyone else in the market...and the evidence that they've chosen the wrong set of features is...that you're disappointed. 

So, yes...Really, Canon. 

BTW, I love it when people say 'it sucks' then two lines later say 'I'll probably buy one'. Really adds to their credibility, y'know? 




instaimage said:


> WHAT! OK... you said it's not about making special, it's about making money... the way Canon now makes money is selling bodies and lenses... they have a consumer that has the glass so they now need to make something compelling enough that they will upgrade... which is in this case a body we're talking about... and you're saying that it's OK that we're not going to upgrade... a person that is on the Canon hook for essentially life, isn't going to upgrade to a body that is aimed at them... and that's your plan for Canon making money?



So, your contention seems to be that the primary target market for the 5DIV is 5DIII owners looking to upgrade. Why? Have you considered that the primary target market may be 6D and 7DII owners? And 5DII owners who didn't get a 5DIII? And xxD owners? Sure, they'll include features that will appeal to current 5DIII owners, but there are a lot more people out there with cameras further down the line and/or with a 5DII. Personally, I suspect _they_ are the target market to whom the spec set is intended to appeal, and upgrading 5DIII owners are just a bonus.


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > > Come on Neuro, even you have to agree this isn't the "best" they can do...
> ...



You're almost there: yes, it's about selling, but not about selling to an individual person with a unique set of needs. It's more about finding the "peak profit" spot where the cost of R&D&M&D&S (manufacturing and distribution and support) is small enough that the revenue from sales of the body, lenses and other accessories creates maximal profit. To do that, a company will carry out market analysis over a period of time. For over a decade, Canon's marketing team has [email protected]$$ on that. 

If you want to know what Canon will sell next, stop thinking about what you want, and think about what the ten-thousands of customers will pay for.


----------



## H. Jones (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > WHAT! OK... you said it's not about making special, it's about making money... the way Canon now makes money is selling bodies and lenses... they have a consumer that has the glass so they now need to make something compelling enough that they will upgrade... which is in this case a body we're talking about... and you're saying that it's OK that we're not going to upgrade... a person that is on the Canon hook for essentially life, isn't going to upgrade to a body that is aimed at them... and that's your plan for Canon making money?
> ...



Speaking as a current 5D mark III owner and a week away from being a 1DX mark II owner, I'm definitely going to upgrade my 5D Mark III based off the rumors right now. I was originally hoping the 1DX mark II would be 22-24 megapixels so that it could totally replace my 5D mark III, but since it's only 20 I definitely see a place in my kit for a 5D mark IV if it keeps the same ISO quality as the mark III. Instead of having the 5D mark III exclusively as a second camera, I could make a 5D mark IV my main landscape-fine art camera along with being a great second body to my 1DX mark II.

Let's remember that this upgrade will also boost dynamic range quite a lot with Canon's new sensor tech. Plus you get anti-flicker, customized Q menu, GPS, WIFI, 7 FPS, 30 MP, touch screen, DPAF, etc. I'd say modernizing the 5D mark III is worth it enough for me, there's so much that Canon has improved on since the 5D mark III came out, and as a career photographer it just makes sense to keep up with these improvements. 

Hopefully the 5D Mark III doesn't lose too much of its price by the time the Mark IV comes out-- it would be nice to only need to drop $1,000 on the Mark IV.


----------



## Hector1970 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Do you think you will buy one Neuro?
I presume you have the 1DX II already - would you find it a tempting camera to buy?

Personally I think the 5DIII is still a great camera. The 5D IV is all round probably going to be better.
Because I got the 5DSR I probably won't upgrade until the 5DIII packs in.
Without the 5DSR I probably would have been an ideal candidate to purchase it.
The 5D IV will do well for Canon

[/quote] So, your contention seems to be that the primary target market for the 5DIV is 5DIII owners looking to upgrade. Why? Have you considered that the primary target market may be 6D and 7DII owners? And 5DII owners who didn't get a 5DIII? And xxD owners? Sure, they'll include features that will appeal to current 5DIII owners, but there are a lot more people out there with cameras further down the line and/or with a 5DII. Personally, I suspect _they_ are the target market to whom the spec set is intended to appeal, and upgrading 5DIII owners are just a bonus.
[/quote]


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > ...I agree, this spec list is likely spot on... but... Really Canon?
> ...



Wow, I guess the the business degree and the past 21 years in business has shown me some different things... 

Thanks for the chat...

I'm glad to know that Canon is so smart that they're only looking for new business from users that are climbing the photo ladder, not all the World Press Assoc folks that in majority are 5D3 users... I guess I must have missed that in my years of business training... gonna have to go back and find where I missed that part that we want to, with a few specs of a professional tool, miss the mark a bit and still make some profit, cause "some" is OK... vs. actually hitting the mark and making even more... 

And Neuro, you're displaying signs of being the biggest blind fan boy that I've ever seen from you... please snap out of it... Yes, I'm disappointed in Canon with this one, particularly after the 1DX2 offering and I'd likely buy two or three of these bodies if they'd hit a little higher mark... so after selling off 5D3's and 1DX's in anticipation of the X2 and the 5D4 introduction... it's OK that I/m displaying my dissatisfaction with the 5D4 here on the forum... that's what it's for... 

Thanks again for the chat... Good Day to you!


----------



## rbielefeld (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



tron said:
 

> rbielefeld said:
> 
> 
> > How many fps at 30mp? That is the question I have now. Glad to see 30mp. This will be a good small, perched bird camera for me. I have the 1DxII for my fast action birds in flight. The 5DIV at 30mp will do the small bird job.
> ...



Yep, I could do that. I like to have choices. The 1DxII will probably be better in low light than the 5DIV, but who knows. I don't go by specs, I like to shoot the camera and make my own determination. So far, the 1DxII is a great camera. Can't wait to see what the 5DIV can do for me.


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## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Orangutan said:


> If you want to know what Canon will sell next, stop thinking about what you want, and think about what the ten-thousands of customers will pay for.



I bought four 1DX's. I bought three 1DX2's. I've had two 5D3's. I've had two 5DSR's.

I'm actually per capita, WAY ahead in purchases of Canon's higher end bodies than the larger majority of the people buying these cameras so I have a feeling that thinking about what I want in a camera of this level is pretty spot on.

I buy and use a lot of Canon gear, it's very much OK that I'm disappointed (and expressing so here, sorry it disagrees with you this morning...)....

Thanks again for the chat...


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to know what Canon will sell next, stop thinking about what you want, and think about what the ten-thousands of customers will pay for.
> ...



Sorry if I came across as harsh, it was intended as a matter-of-fact business case.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Wow, I guess the the business degree and the past 21 years in business has shown me some different things...



I guess you know more than the collective experience of the business staff at the market-leading dSLR manufacturer. You must be very proud of yourself!




instaimage said:


> it's OK that I/m displaying my dissatisfaction with the 5D4 here on the forum... that's what it's for...



Of course...it's absolutely fine! The problem is that you've turned _your personal disappointment_ into a statement that the 5DIV will sell poorly....with no evidence to back that up (the fact that you've bought lots of Canon gear doesn't turn your _opinion_ into evidence!).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Hector1970 said:


> Do you think you will buy one Neuro?
> I presume you have the 1DX II already - would you find it a tempting camera to buy?



No plans to buy a 5-series body. I didn't find the 1D X II to be a compelling upgrade, personally - definitely a great camera, but my 1D X meets my needs just fine.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.
> ...



No, my view wouldn't change. You are merely the latest in a long line of people who create a new account, and then launch into hyperbole about how terrible Canon is, how their next camera will be a massive failure, and claim to know some photographers who have switched. Even if the last bit is true, it's anecdote and constitutes a drop in the ocean of total sales.

Also, you've posted a lot of comments and links that are so tangential to the discussion they're either trolling or utter cluelessness.

As an aside, it's funny how many people who either claim to be or to know professionals (and often claim ownership of lots of high end gear) post meaningless or irrelevant non sequiturs here.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Go Wild said:


> My point is.....the most important is that you feel good working ith your equipment and when you deliver the work, your client be happy! That´s all it matters!!



Amen to that!


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I guess the the business degree and the past 21 years in business has shown me some different things...
> ...



With all due respect to your years of amazing contribution on here... but dude, you need a nap or something... That's the most Fan Boy shit I've EVER heard you say...

You've already admitted that they've hindered the 5D4 and proclaimed, "... so what"... well, it's really OK that I've been backing up my disappointment with opinion that this move is going to hurt sales of this body... just because Canon is the largest maker of DSLR's in the world (by a significant margin... TREMENDOUSLY SIGNIFICANT margin...) really does mean the that they're also the largest seller of said DSLR's in the world... astonishing how that works... I guess you can also say that Apple is the largest seller of iPhones in the world too... that's a shocker! 

The 5D3 was in a class all it's own when it came out, a lot of people bought them... in the years since, the world has changed and the competition has caught up (I won't say surpassed like the Sony folks because that's just not true...) and what I see Canon putting out in the 5D4 is a hobbled (because they're choosing to...) soldier. It is my opinion, and you, Neuro, somewhat backed it, that they have the capability to go back to the "class of it's own" status with the 5D4 but they have not chosen to do so... when the world has caught up (and some feel surpassed but again, I will not concede that...) and you put out mediocre options, you WILL hurt sales. I my opinion, the 5D4 spec list, which we have largely come to know CR for being right on the mark... is mediocre.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage said:
> ...



Let me get this straight – it's 'fan boy s___' to disagree with your opinion? Whatever, dude. Sounds like you need a time out or something... :


----------



## scyrene (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



jonneymendoza said:


> Surely Sony will catch up in the areas it is lacking such as AF and buffer/speed within the next 2 years way in the lifecycle of the 5d4 and possibly surpass it in every shape and form?



This is an attitude I cannot understand. Why do you have total faith in one company and none in the other? Both have track records, both have produced products that tick some, but not all, boxes. Both have strong and weak areas.


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



You were saying advice - not "camera" advice - which is not quite the same, is it? And you might get hung up on a sort of "typo" here...


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> You've already admitted that they've hindered the 5D4 and proclaimed, "... so what"... well, it's really OK that I've been backing up my disappointment with opinion that this move is going to hurt sales of this body...



I think you misunderstand the "so what" attitude: it's not that anyone here wants Canon to hold back huge improvements, it's that we accept that they will continue to do so until the competition starts taking away sales in large numbers. It's not contentment with status quo, it's the acceptance of a basic principle of economics.



> The 5D3 was in a class all it's own when it came out, a lot of people bought them... in the years since, the world has changed and the competition has caught up


In features, yes; in sales, no. In business, it's sales that count.



> It is my opinion, and you, Neuro, somewhat backed it, that they have the capability to go back to the "class of it's own" status with the 5D4 but they have not chosen to do so



You've explained why you want them to go back to "class of its own" but you have not explained why Canon would choose to do so when the current strategy is working so well for them.

I can't emphasize this enough: it's not that I (and others) don't want huge feature improvements, it's that we understand and accept economic reality. Instead of being upset with Canon for failing to meet your wishes, you should be angry with Nikon, Sony, and the rest for failing to force them to do so through market competition.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Wow, I guess the the business degree and the past 21 years in business has shown me some different things...
> 
> Thanks for the chat...
> 
> ...



You may have business qualifications, but that doesn't make your statements any more credible. Are they a profitable company or not? Are they the market leader in this segment or not? Are their sales holding up or not?

Having a degree in something, or even a lot of work experience, doesn't make every pronouncement a person makes *even in that field* correct, especially not when it's based on gut feeling, anecdote, or instinct. Substituting evidence with personal dissatisfaction is no way to make sound judgments on anything.


----------



## Mr. Milo (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Wow. Slow down. You're talking about 8K resolution now? Why? No one absolutely needs it and no one here can afford it. No one has the tech scaled down to a Canon C300 body. That's going to take another 5-7 years.

I'm speaking for myself. The 4K chase is a joke right now. It's trash. It doesn't make my film work any better and the cost of CFast 2.0 is way too expensive; depending on memory, it starts at $350 a pop.

1080p is fine right now and for the next 3 years. I'll take a look at 4K again in 2019. If you want to use 4K for wedding videography in 2016, that's on you. 4K eats too much memory quickly. I hate that. Most clients do not care for 4K and they don't have the monitors to see it. They just want good work at a low cost.

Also, for indie filmmakers who only care for 4K resolution, but not the quality of the story, you messed up. Most theaters only project in 1080p.

I wouldn't buy the Canon 5D Mark IV if you care about DCI 4K. We're definitely not getting that in a DSLR body. That's why they have the Canon C300 Mark II and C700. If you do not like those choices, leave Canon. I wouldn't put DCI 4K on a DSLR body if I was Canon. Stupid move; too expensive and I will not profit off of that.

As I said before, C-log is the last thing to keep me interested. If it is not there, I don't care for this camera. I hate working with Technicolor Cinestyle and Marvel's Advanced profile. It's not the same.

Also, for the others taking shots at videographers for wanting these things in a stills camera, stop it. Canon evolved the 5D line into what it is now. That's how it is. I said in previous posts that we cannot afford $10K+ digital cinema cameras. $5000 is a lot, too. We invested into the Canon lens system so there you go.

$3000-$3500 is expensive, but we can manage that.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Let's face it, none of us knows what Canon's business strategy is. All the business degrees and business experience in the world won't change that.

But, the unarguable fact is that whatever Canon's business strategy might be, it has worked quite well for them for nearly a century and it continues to work for them.

My opinion, and it is only an opinion, is that Canon probably knows that a lot, maybe a majority, of their customers are "alternating model" buyers. People who skip a generation. Maybe the 5DIV won't be a compelling upgrade for 5DIII owners, but it is a huge step up for 5DII owners.

They are also probably looking at upgraders as well. I decided to forgo the 5DIV and go to the 1DX II because it better suits my own business needs. Canon isn't losing any money on my decision. There may well be a lot of 6D owners who decide to move up the chain to the 5D IV. And, there will probably be some 70D owners who make the leap to the 5DIV. 

Finally, I'm sure they know their business customers very well and while those are a small group of people, they may upgrade to a new model every cycle simple because of their own use and needs. Their cameras may not last more than one cycle.

When someone on this forum lists all the cameras they happen to own, I wonder what they are trying to prove. If they are in business, I assume they bought those cameras for a business reason. If they are consumers who like to collect cameras, well that's nice, but Canon doesn't base it's business model on you, they would go broke if they did. There aren't enough buyers that fit into that category.

I have no problem with someone saying they don't care for a particular model or think it was a mistake to put or not put a certain feature into a camera. But, like many others here, I don't give any credibility to anyone who argues that a decision they don't like is evidence that Canon doesn't know its own business and customers. They know us far better than we realized.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I guess the the business degree and the past 21 years in business has shown me some different things...
> ...



Once again you got there first, Neuro


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Neuro, you're saying that Canon knows all and whatever they put out is because they're the smartest and they're going to make tremendous profits because they're the smartest DSLR company in the world...

That's Fan Boy... that's NOT you...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Neuro, you're saying that Canon knows all and whatever they put out is because they're the smartest and they're going to make tremendous profits because they're the smartest DSLR company in the world...
> 
> That's Fan Boy... that's NOT you...



I have not and am not saying anything of the sort. Apparently a business degree and 21 years of experience doesn't confer reading comprehension ability. How sad.


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > Neuro, you're saying that Canon knows all and whatever they put out is because they're the smartest and they're going to make tremendous profits because they're the smartest DSLR company in the world...
> ...



"... collective experience of the business staff at the market-leading dSLR manufacturer."

Sorry, my inference... I apologize "all knowing one of all things Canon"... Go Neuro!


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



romanr74 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > romanr74 said:
> ...



Err, I was going by the them of the thread and the point of the poster. Canon is crap for video 'everybody' is shooting Sony because it is vastly better. Yet the person who supposedly swapped brands doesn't even know what type of camera they are using. 

So yes I was referring to camera advice, as was the comment I was referencing.


----------



## John2016 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> John2016 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Read, watch, study and stop talking about my ass:

This ones are public...

Do you know John Pardue ???
"Cinematographer John Pardue wrote in with details of how he used the new Sony A7s camera to capture an exciting nighttime action sequence as part of his work on the first two episodes of Stan Lee’s Lucky Man for Sky One, 
"The chance to do large-scale action on British TV appealed enormously to Andy, and one of the biggest challenges was a nighttime boat chase along The Thames. Unlike 007 James Bond SPECTRE, we didn’t have a huge budget to light up the river; plus we only had four nights and one tank day to shoot the whole sequence."

https://britishcinematographer.co.uk/john-pardue-stan-lees-lucky-man/

http://www.alejandrodp.com/music-video-with-sony-a7s-4k-with-odyssey-7q/

http://billtotolo.blogspot.com/2015/06/sony-a7s-shooting-feature-with-pair-of.html

http://www.fourbentcorners.com/behind-the-scenes/2014/7/21/sony-alpha-a7s-first-impression-part-1-photography

http://www.richardfoxphotography.com/day-sony-europe/

http://www.diyphotography.net/sonys-a7s-tested-in-the-middle-of-the-night-yielding-impressive-results/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT6Ui6rQI8k

http://staffmeup.com/profile/kennya

https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/article/broadcast-products-videography-how-to-shoot-2k-4k

http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/a7s-vs-red-epic-dragon-technically-landslide-victory/

http://www.ziadoakes.com/news/travelling-sony-a7s

Ah and look at this: The Cage for the Sony A7S arrived in *American Society of Cinematographers*
web shop: http://store.ascmag.com/product-p/sku16761.htm
I know just for the desk... :


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mr. Milo said:


> I wouldn't buy the Canon 5D Mark IV if you care about DCI 4K. We're definitely not getting that in a DSLR body. That's why they have the Canon C300 Mark II and C700. If you do not like those choices, leave Canon. I wouldn't put DCI 4K on a DSLR body if I was Canon. Stupid move; too expensive and I will not profit off of that.



So the 1DX MkII 4k DCI is a mirage?


----------



## Mr. Milo (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> Mr. Milo said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't buy the Canon 5D Mark IV if you care about DCI 4K. We're definitely not getting that in a DSLR body. That's why they have the Canon C300 Mark II and C700. If you do not like those choices, leave Canon. I wouldn't put DCI 4K on a DSLR body if I was Canon. Stupid move; too expensive and I will not profit off of that.
> ...



My mistake. That DSLR does do it. Yes, there you go. I still can't afford it. $6000 and CFast 2.0 cards. Need about 4 of those cards plus 3 batteries. Easily over $8000.


----------



## Buck (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

With all the talk about specs with the 5dm4 there is little talk of the other side of the equation and that is price. The management at canon knows there is a certain price point that people are willing to pay for this type of camera and there is only so much they can offer to keep it in that price point. While we might want all more of this or that, if it costs say an extra $1500 per body at retail, how many of us are going to buy it.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



H. Jones said:


> Speaking as a current 5D mark III owner and a week away from being a 1DX mark II owner, I'm definitely going to upgrade my 5D Mark III based off the rumors right now. I was originally hoping the 1DX mark II would be 22-24 megapixels so that it could totally replace my 5D mark III, but since it's only 20 I definitely see a place in my kit for a 5D mark IV if it keeps the same ISO quality as the mark III. Instead of having the 5D mark III exclusively as a second camera, I could make a 5D mark IV my main landscape-fine art camera along with being a great second body to my 1DX mark II.



I'm right there in that (almost) exact same camp with you. Except I have a 5DSR too that already fills my higher MP needs. I was really hoping the DX2 would have the 22-24 range to be my 5D3 replacement, but 20.2 is close enough for me and partly the reason why I've decided to buy the DX2 instead of upgrading my 5D3 to 5D4. I need the versatility of the DX2 a lot more than I need 30MP (especially when I already have 50MP)


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Perfectly stated. Thank you!



unfocused said:


> Let's face it, none of us knows what Canon's business strategy is. All the business degrees and business experience in the world won't change that.
> 
> But, the unarguable fact is that whatever Canon's business strategy might be, it has worked quite well for them for nearly a century and it continues to work for them.
> 
> ...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage said:
> ...



No worries. I was not suggesting that Canon's business staff knows all...just that they know more about dSLR marketing _than you_. Hope that clarifies.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > John2016 said:
> ...



Wow, so that's 17 of 21 people now? Gee, that's so impressive. Well done!

http://www.canon.com


----------



## Mr. Milo (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yup. If the Mark IV doesn't use CFast 2.0, Canon did us a huge effin' favor and that's with 4K at 30 FPS. That's if it's true. They know us. LOL.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



hne said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...


You can have highly accurate readout on some cine lenses such as the Cooke i lenses, Zeiss Master Primes with i function and Panavision P70 lenses (which also have built-in motors). Cine lenses are a very different beast to TV lenses and lenses like the Panavision P70s are about as perfect as you can make a lens currently.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.

These threads, so close to an announcement sure become a drag although there is still some helpful information to be gleaned. I will not buy the 1DX II until after the full specs are out because my shooting history shows I am often reach limited (and can't afford the $ or weight of a longer lens) and staying with 20 MP (1DX II) moving from the 6D is somewhat disappointing. I cannot justify a 5DS backed by a 6D for my shooting needs as my only two cameras so the 5D IV might just be an option rather than the 1DX II. However, there are all those 1 level features that muddy the water (exposure linked to focus, lit focus points, etc.).

I'd like to hear what others that are in essentially the same situation, are thinking.

Jack


----------



## bholliman (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

The 5D MkIV specs look good from my perspective, solid advancement in features and capability across the board. 

I will not be buying one in the near future as I'm happy with my 5DsR/6D combo for landscape and occasional portraits and family shots.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...


You gave me a good laugh about 8K! Hell a Canon 5D MKIII with 4K was a laugh also. 

8K Cinema doesn't exist, may never exist. Most multiplex screens have a 55-56ft diagonal. To see optimum 2K you need to sit roughly in the middle seats from the front, change that to 4K the first three rows, change than to 8K no mans land between the screen & the first row. 8K is more about oversampling & retaining a wider color gamut such as Rec.2020.
Japan is pushing 8K through NHK, Red is giving you 8K primarily to oversample and shoot vistavision for a shallower depth of field (creative choices). The day we purchase 8K TVs will be the day we start to screw our brains and optical receptors, humans field of view is roughly 40 degrees but we pan & scan to attain around 140%, we do this without thinking about it. However peripheral vision is not sharp only the centre field so standing close to an 8K TV to actually see 8K would be frankly a waste of time.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.
> 
> These threads, so close to an announcement sure become a drag although there is still some helpful information to be gleaned. I will not buy the 1DX II until after the full specs are out because my shooting history shows I am often reach limited (and can't afford the $ or weight of a longer lens) and staying with 20 MP (1DX II) moving from the 6D is somewhat disappointing. I cannot justify a 5DS backed by a 6D for my shooting needs as my only two cameras so the 5D IV might just be an option rather than the 1DX II. However, there are all those 1 level features that muddy the water (exposure linked to focus, lit focus points, etc.).
> 
> ...


Jack,
To me, the 5DIV seem to be a near perfect camera for your needs (if I have them right). 30MP, with good cropping capability, most likely good low light performance, better noise performance and improved DR. 7 fps is a big improvement over the 6D and most likely plenty for 99% of what you shoot. 4k video (no 60 fps though) is included, with touch screen and DPAF. The AF system will (minimum) be on par with the 5DSR (which is great). Only possible downside is the lack of metering following AF point, but that is still just speculation (it should be included). But I manage with the 5DSR, so I assume you will with a 5DIV. And, it is half the weight of a 1DXII and probably +2k$ available for good glass.

Your choice


----------



## Phil Lowe (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



> ...people should gripe that those other companies haven't fixed whatever is wrong with their products to make them better sellers.



The Nikon D500 is a pretty special camera. I bought one for my wife for our 33rd wedding anniversary. When she's not shooting it, I like to take it out with my 7D MkII. Both are great cameras, but the D500 is going to force Canon to up its game with the 7D MkIII.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Phil Lowe said:


> ...The Nikon D500 is a pretty special camera. I bought one for my wife for our 33rd wedding anniversary. When she's not shooting it, I like to take it out with my 7D MkII. Both are great cameras, but the D500 is going to force Canon to up its game with the 7D MkIII.



An impending firmware update to the 7D2 may fix that...(assuming Canon gets it right).


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> The 1DX2 will "process" (same give or takes, but from recent files...) 308 MB/s. This is using 22 MB files at 14 FPS.



to be fair. the 1DX Mark II has 3 DiGiC's .. one dedicated to AF/AE and the other two simply for image processing. the 5D Mark IV will not that. the 1DX Mark II also has a big honking battery and heatsink.

The 5Ds throughput, yes, it's under that .. however consider that the CIPA rating of the 5D Mark III is 950 while the CIPA of the 5Ds was 700.

Food for thought.


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Phil Lowe said:


> > ...people should gripe that those other companies haven't fixed whatever is wrong with their products to make them better sellers.
> 
> 
> 
> The Nikon D500 is a pretty special camera. I bought one for my wife for our 33rd wedding anniversary. When she's not shooting it, I like to take it out with my 7D MkII. Both are great cameras, but the D500 is going to force Canon to up its game with the 7D MkIII.



I hope so -- we all want better products, regardless of which brand we shoot. Healthy competition benefits all buyers. Unfortunately, even the very nice D8x0 and D6x0 didn't have as much effect as they could have.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Phil Lowe said:


> > ...people should gripe that those other companies haven't fixed whatever is wrong with their products to make them better sellers.
> 
> 
> 
> The Nikon D500 is a pretty special camera. I bought one for my wife for our 33rd wedding anniversary. When she's not shooting it, I like to take it out with my 7D MkII. Both are great cameras, but the D500 is going to force Canon to up its game with the 7D MkIII.



I'm too embedded in Canon and to old to change now but our photographic rental business has the Nikon D500 and I have to agree its a very special camera and Canon should take note. the D5 however I was underwhelmed by the 1D X MKII is a better all round product.


----------



## romanr74 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Again, I might just have been some sort of "typo" by a not flawless person (I know they shouldn't be here). 
And still he could be able to compare and come to a personal judgement on the result of the cameras.


----------



## tron (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Eldar said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.
> ...


Now Eldar an opinion: You do have 1DxII and 5DsR and you like bird photography. 5DIV falls between 1DxII and 5DsR. What would you do? 
I think I know the answer: these 2 cameras are more specialized for your needs...

But if you started from scratch which would you choose?


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

There are a few glaring problems with the 5D IV that I see. There is no way I would buy this body.

The frame rate is to slow.
The pixel density isn't high enough. 
Most likely the ISO improvement will not be on the level of the 1Dx II.
With the higher pixel density I doubt the buffer is deep enough.

Canon blows it again. They just ignored all my requests for a body that would do it all.


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.
> Jack



Appreciate that bud! Hope you're ½ as successful in your life as I am... it's OK that you don't agree with me, don't need to demonstrate that you're an A$$ however...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> There are a few glaring problems with the 5D IV that I see. There is no way I would buy this body.
> 
> The frame rate is to slow.
> The pixel density isn't high enough.
> ...



:


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.
> ...



Depending on how successful you really are that could be a very cruel thing to say. You may have to post some of your bank account statements so we know if you are wishing him well or harm.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



romanr74 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > romanr74 said:
> ...



As you like.


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > The 1DX2 will "process" (same give or takes, but from recent files...) 308 MB/s. This is using 22 MB files at 14 FPS.
> ...



The 5D3 has dual digic, the 5DS has dual digic... can't we expect the 5D4 to have dual digic? The 5DS is pushing more data than the 5D4 and is over a year older. I don't understand that. The 5D4, even at 8 FPS or for that matter push it to 10 FPS isn't competing with the 7D2... FF vs. crop, nearly twice the price, etc., there are just too many differences... but as everyone on here is saying, I have no clue what I'm talking about so... I'll just STFU...


----------



## instaimage (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> instaimage said:
> 
> 
> > Jack Douglas said:
> ...



Thank you


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.
> ...



Woah dude. Out of the two of you I know who I would consider the A$$ :


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage said:
> ...



The 5D MkIII is single Digic, the 5DS/R is dual Digic. Not hard to understand if you take a couple of seconds before you engage your keyboard.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tron said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > Jack Douglas said:
> ...


Well, I am amongst the privileged, having both the 5DSR and 1DXII and this combo covers pretty much everything I want to do. However, if I could have only one camera body, I believe the 5DIV (provided the spec rumours are correct) could be a very compelling alternative. If the sensor is good enough, I might buy it as the general walk-around camera and limit the use of the 5DSR to more slow speed tripod work.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.
> ...


Ehhh ... Those who need to point out how successful they are ... are (always) quite pitiful, a bit pathetic and normally pretty unsuccessful overall ...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> The 5D3 has dual digic... I have no clue what I'm talking about so... I'll just STFU...



Yes, that just about sums it up (although unfortunately, I doubt you'll follow through with your final statement). Again, well done!


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage, if I had to bet money, is a fake. Simply not displaying enough intelligence to deserve attention.
> ...


Ehhh ... Those who need to point out how successful they are ... are (always) quite pitiful, a bit pathetic and normally pretty unsuccessful overall ...


----------



## canonic (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



John2016 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, what changes is that while before it was merely quite likely, now it's a certainty that you're talking out of your ass. Well done!
> ...



Let him. Dont blame him. He has an a** issue. He cant help himself. But please, dont think he is an a****** its not ... appropiate 8)


----------



## uxr51 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

The level of Fanboy-ism on this thread is impressive. 

I don’t know how old or technically savy are most of you but I want to make some things clear:

1.- Those that don’t want or care about video: Video is the future. Images will be a thing of the past in some years and they will be merged with video. A video is a series of stills. Just look at how fast video is taking over stills in every media outlet, facebook, instagram etc. Look how many images vs video are published. Times are changing, and they are changing faster every year. 

2.- What some people here are asking is for canon to innovate. Look are other camera companies, the underdogs. They are innovating. Canon is doing the opposite by having some of the technology and means but purposely crippling their products. 

3.- If you don’t need a feature on a camera right now it does not mean you will not need it in the future or other people don’t need it right now. I have seen posts of people glad it does not have 4k 60fps. Others saying they don’t want high MP pictures because it takes too much processing power. You are spending thousands on cameras and lenses, go buy a fast pc and you are set. Take a look at your years old 8MP or 480 video and tell me if you wished you had a camera with 24MP or 1080P at the time?

4.- I can assure you that in less than 3 years the company who shall not be named on this forum will be releasing a mirrorless camera that shoots 8K at 30fps and 4K at 120fps. The 5D MK4 will still be shooting 30MP stills at 7 fps and 4k at 30fps. Yes, I know you will not need it, but the younger generations will. 

5.- You all need to stop with the brand loyalty. It hurts you and the brand in the long term.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



instaimage said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > instaimage said:
> ...



apparently you do have no clue.

5D Mark III:






single DiGiC 5+

and you completely decided not to think about battery life with that.

with Dual DiGiC's and a faster pipeline.. the 5Ds dropped 27% in battery performance.

the 7D Mark II has a much smaller sensor, generates less heat,etc as well and only pushes 200MP/sec or 6.5 fps at 30MP and only CIPA rated at 670 shots.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



canonic said:


> He has an a** issue.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> The level of Fanboy-ism on this thread is impressive.



you created an account just to whine about a forum thread? 

I wonder who's more pathetic.

you or the people you are complaining about?


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> The level of Fanboy-ism on this thread is impressive.
> 
> I don’t know how old or technically savy are most of you but I want to make some things clear:
> 
> ...



Item 1, You are correct on a few points. However stills will not be a thing of the past. Maybe more video but not a thing of the past.

Item 2, You speculate, you do not know what technology Canon has or does not have. my response to this seems to be the norm the last few pages and the way to respond to this, you are talking out your a**.

Item 4, I doubt this "company" shared their future plans with you. See last comment on Item 2.

Item 5, With the amount of money invested in gear, and the high cost of switching brands, it is inevitable that owners of a certain brand will be loyal.


----------



## Graphix501 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Wow, I was seriously considering buying one of these but I don't think I can now... reading this thread has made me realise that people may see me using it and associate me with you lot ;D ;D ;D

But seriously, as a semi pro motorsport photographer and existing 5D iii user, this looks like a great all rounder and a decent upgrade.

The mega pixel bump should be great for cropping, the shutter speed upgrade is reasonable... don't care about video, never will (lots of people say its the future.... I sell prints)... cfast? I don't care - if write speeds are as good as the 5D iii fine (lets not limit the SD card though) built in wifi good 

Of course its not going to be right for everyone, but for me it looks like the perfect tool got better... just to give some balance to the discussion  Not everyone can afford the flagship (and to be honest I think the extra 10mpx make this more attractive for me) - comparing each line to one another seems like a pointless exercise. Don't like it? don't buy it. I'm more than happy with the images I get with what I have but if the tool can be improved in all the areas I use it fine, i'm interested


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Graphix501 said:


> Wow, I was seriously considering buying one of these but I don't think I can now... reading this thread has made me realise that people may see me using it and associate me with you lot ;D ;D ;D
> 
> But seriously, as a semi pro motorsport photographer and existing 5D iii user, this looks like a great all rounder and a decent upgrade.
> 
> ...



Woa: from reading some of the posts on this thread you may be the only customer that buys this camera. What are you going to do when Canon goes bankrupt and you have no product support?


----------



## Graphix501 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> Graphix501 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I was seriously considering buying one of these but I don't think I can now... reading this thread has made me realise that people may see me using it and associate me with you lot ;D ;D ;D
> ...



Troll the Sony and Nikon forums of course


----------



## Mr. Milo (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> 4.- I can assure you that in less than 3 years the company who shall not be named on this forum will be releasing a mirrorless camera that shoots 8K at 30fps and 4K at 120fps. The 5D MK4 will still be shooting 30MP stills at 7 fps and 4k at 30fps. Yes, I know you will not need it, but the younger generations will.
> 
> 5.- You all need to stop with the brand loyalty. It hurts you and the brand in the long term.



Oh. My. God. 8K mirrorless camera in 3 years eh? HAHAHAHA LOL. U wot m8? This is trolling at its' finest. Drive by post. "The company who shall not be named..." What's next? "The Artist formerly known as?"


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> The level of Fanboy-ism on this thread is impressive.
> 
> I don’t know how old or technically savy are most of you but I want to make some things clear:
> 
> ...


Quite a first post ...

Your rather bastant statements show very limited knowledge of what photography is all about and you show limited knowledge/experience in which cameras are best suited for what work. I don´t care about video. I don´t care about youtube, facebook or any of the other media who spread , disastrous, amateurish, noisy, poorly edited and horrible videos. I care about high quality stills, preferably printed and framed and I will continue to do so. I also love high quality video/film. But, like most others, that is not something I know how to do, but I know it is not made with a 5D mkIV.

Like many, you seem to believe that the core of a photographers system is the camera body. It rarely is. My investments in glass is more than 5x of that I have in cameras (I have good cameras), so swapping camera system for every other camera release is not an option.

I have 14/16 fps. I have excellent low light performance. I have 50.6MP for high resolution. I have excellent AF. I have excellent weather sealing. I have excellent customer support. I have the most comprehensive set of lenses available for any system. My system is first in line for any third party accessory ... and you suggest I change brand??


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Eldar said:


> My system is first in line for any third party accessory ... and you suggest I change brand??



Post wasn't at me but, yes, I suggest this.
And because I am a nice guy I will buy your used 1Dx II, 5Ds R and all of that worthless glass for 30 cents on the dollar. This should help you with your new Nikon purchases.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mr. Milo said:


> uxr51 said:
> 
> 
> > 4.- I can assure you that in less than 3 years the company who shall not be named on this forum will be releasing a mirrorless camera that shoots 8K at 30fps and 4K at 120fps. The 5D MK4 will still be shooting 30MP stills at 7 fps and 4k at 30fps. Yes, I know you will not need it, but the younger generations will.
> ...



I think he's talking about the announced "R&D" of panasonic.

yeah .. imagine 8k out of a m43's sensor. lol.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > My system is first in line for any third party accessory ... and you suggest I change brand??
> ...



Eldar,

Don't listen to him. I am a struggling pro so you can count a donation to me as tax deductible, and I'll give you 35c on the dollar. ;D


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > My system is first in line for any third party accessory ... and you suggest I change brand??
> ...


 ;D


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...


 ;D ;D


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...



I can not compete with the tax deduction.

All I can offer is to give them a loving home, where they will be taken on occasional vacation and go out on play days to have fun. They will never have to work for a living in my home.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > takesome1 said:
> ...



I can promise the same, and in my home they'll have lots and lots of siblings.


----------



## uxr51 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Eldar said:


> uxr51 said:
> 
> 
> > The level of Fanboy-ism on this thread is impressive.
> ...



Hello Eldar,

Your assumptions about me are all wrong. Sorry to disappoint. I don’t even know if you read or comprehended what I wrote. I am baffled on how you got to those assumptions or to the conclusion that I want you to change brands. I wouldn’t. 

It is ok if you don’t care about video. Good for you that you have so many cameras and lenses. You are the 1%. The thing is: it’s not about you, as you say over and over in your post. It’s about the other 99% of the market share.


----------



## Dick (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Don't see anything really interesting in those specs. The things that matter to me have not been answered:

1) dynamic range?
2) is the AF better than what Mark III has? (Less of oof shots with fast apertures?)
3) exposure compensation in M mode?


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...


Well, even though they don´t talk much, I believe my kids are fairly happy where they are. Everyone gets their fair share of attention, they get to travel every now and then to see nice places, meet interesting people, beautiful birds and scary animals. I believe it would irresponsible to break up such a happy family  I just wonder when I will be too old to have more ... :


----------



## tpatana (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> 4.- I can assure you that in less than 3 years the company who shall not be named on this forum will be releasing a mirrorless camera that shoots 8K at 30fps and 4K at 120fps. The 5D MK4 will still be shooting 30MP stills at 7 fps and 4k at 30fps. Yes, I know you will not need it, but the younger generations will.



(to quote someone funnier than me): Hahahahahahahahahhahaaha! Wait... you're serious? Let me laugh even harder HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > uxr51 said:
> ...



I think your percentages are skewed. No doubt coming from some pre-conceived notion, not having the true facts in front of you. It is doubtful 99% of the market share cares about video.


----------



## kphristov (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Just CONFIRMED: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV will have dual pixel auto-focus. 
The photo is fake.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Eldar said:


> uxr51 said:
> 
> 
> > The level of Fanboy-ism on this thread is impressive.
> ...



When I read posts like this...and many others are like this on this thread...all I can think about is that somewhere in the world there is a 15-year-old girl with her Dad's 70D, out making a film that will go viral on You Tube and earn her a film school scholarship and a contract for a series of films for a price that none of us will ever come close to.

Yet, no one has told her that the 70D is a piece of crap and that anything that doesn't have 4K and a host of other specs that I know nothing about isn't worth even looking at. Somehow she will succeed and won't worry about the things being discussed here because in the end, just as it has been for thousands of years, it's the content that matters.


----------



## rcarca (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I set myself the challenge of reading the 40 pages so far. What a total waste of energy. The level of debate on here is crass in the extreme. Unlike so many on here I know little about the pros and cons of all of the different manufacturers, and I understand next to nothing about the physics. I am only an amateur - albeit keen. But I keep coming back to this forum for two reasons: (1) I really am interested to know what is coming up with the 5Div and other models - whether I can justify the expense or not remains to be seen; and (2) I have a very vague hope of occasionally finding some enlightening comments.

Well this thread (apart from the original post which at least gave me some of the likely features of the new 5Div) has confirmed what I guess I already knew: that this forum seems to consist of the biggest bunch of maladjusted egos that ever walked the earth.

This is truly a sorry state of affairs.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kphristov said:


> The photo is fake.



Have any actual proof of that? 

As far as fakes go it is a remarkable piece of work that goes through forensics quite well, especially parts where they had to have adjusted/constructed the image (the pentaprism is unique). And it arrived at the same time as the now seemingly confirmed rumor that the badge had moved to make way for the remote release port. Any explanation for how they managed that? Crystal ball?


----------



## unfocused (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> ...Video is the future. Images will be a thing of the past in some years and they will be merged with video. A video is a series of stills...



This is such an ignorant comment that it bears an individual response.

A video is not a series of stills. Anyone who thinks it is is either a terrible filmmaker or a terrible photographer. Or, perhaps both.

In the words of the great John Szarkowski (published 50 years ago), "...photography was born whole. It is in our progressive discovery of it that its history lies."

Photography is not painting...it is not film...it is not video...it is not drawing...it is photography. 

A photograph is a physical object. It can be held in hand and contemplated. Even on a tablet or a laptop, it is there in front of us, whole. In a photograph there is no before or after, there is only the moment frozen in time. 

A photograph has edges. Every photographer must select what he or she will include in the frame. Outside the frame, there is nothing. The entire world of the photograph lives within that frame. 

A photograph has no depth. It is a two dimensional object and everything within the photograph must live within those two dimensions. 

In truth, photography may be the most surrealistic of all the arts, because it creates an illusion of reality where none exists. Nothing in a photograph is every exactly as it was in life, yet nearly 200 years after the invention of the medium, we still fool ourselves into believing it represents reality.

Video or film is an entirely different medium that depends completely on motion. Things move across a stage, entering and exiting. Time passes in a film and that passage of time is integral to the story. The viewer cannot hold a film in their hands and examine it in detail, they are always at the mercy of the filmmaker, who sets the story into motion and controls what the viewer sees and when they see it.

To say that video is just a series of stills is to reveal complete ignorance of both mediums.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Dick said:


> Don't see anything really interesting in those specs. The things that matter to me have not been answered:
> 
> 1) dynamic range?
> 2) is the AF better than what Mark III has? (Less of oof shots with fast apertures?)
> 3) exposure compensation in M mode?



#2 and #3 we can only assume at this point. I would say we could likely expect to see an upgrade along the lines of the DX2 in AF with more f8 points and a wider coverage area of the usable points. It will probably be a bit faster thanks to what I'm betting would be a new Digic 7 chipset.

#1 is a given. We saw the new on board ADC sensor tech employed first in a FF DSLR with the DX2 and you'd better believe Canon will absolutely be using that on a new 5 body. Canon even stated that going forward all the new sensors would be on this build and the 30MP sensor is absolutely a new sensor design.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

New CR Forums rule. 

Do NOT engage any obviously absurd and mentally deranged posts by any user who has a post counter of 1 when it's posted. Then ignore all subsequent posts. This will save us all a ton of headaches and about 20 pages of ridiculous discussions.

(Neuro, in your case, this includes Dilbert ;D   )


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > uxr51 said:
> ...


I think I understood what you wrote. If you meant something else, then I suggest you clarify. 120 fps 4k video will give you loads of images. But they will not replace a well composed, well lit, high resolution still image. They are a complement. Yes, when we had 8MP resolution, we wanted more. Today I have 50MP and the resolution issue, as far as I am concerned, is solved. But there are lots of other areas to address.

You point out that we have never seen as many images and videos being published as today. I agree. 95% or there about are made with mobile phones. Canon is aiming at a different user group. However, with my outdated and uninventive Canon gear, I have DPAF (can anyone else provide anything better?) and (up to) 60 fps 4k video, with frame grab. I even believe it is the best video package offered by any MILC/DSLR at the moment, but that can be wrong, since I just don´t use it. The only ones I have seen saying they don´t want 60fps 4k, says so because they don´t want to pay for something they don´t use. I am one of those. 

Yes, improved video functionality is most welcome, for those who makes videos. Canon is delivering an excellent range of cameras in the EOS C-series, with special purpose lenses, in addition to the full range of EF lenses, for that purpose. But that does not mean that you should try to make the 5DIV a video wonder machine. Because by doing so, you reduce the value of that camera as a stills camera and you are getting a video camera with poor form facto and you are making it unnecessarily expensive.

I believe your statement: "You all need to stop with the brand loyalty ..." suggests that we should jump between brands. I told you why that is a bad option for me, as it is for many others.

FYI, despite digital, lots of people are still using film and as far as I know, the number is now growing. CDs are dying, while vinyl records are having a renaissance. Stradivarius violins are still the ultimate source of violin sound, despite sampling and synthesizer technology and so on and so on ... Still images might just survive, also in the future ...

And finally, No, I don´t believe I am the 1%. I believe I am in a smaller group than that. However, I am one of the best customers they have and so are a number of other members on this forum. Over the years, like them, I have bought Canon gear for several hundred thousand dollars. And, through personal contact, internet forums, photo clubs etc. I have advised and recommended Canon cameras and lenses to others, for a lot more than that.


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I know we are all busy insulting each other and talking about mostly useless video that 80% of people won't even use, but are we still expecting new lenses to be announced alongside the 5d IV? There was a lot of talk about the 16-35 f/2.8 III being announced with this camera but I haven't heard anything in a while.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Eldar said:


> 120 fps 4k video will give you loads of images. But they will not replace a well composed, well lit, high resolution still image.



Bingo. Let's not forget about all the other limitations like shutter speed. Even at 120fps, the fastest shutter speed you can really employ (assuming you are also shooting usable motion footage) is 1/250th second. Not fast enough to stop fast action motion blur in a still. Not even close. I often need a minimum of 1/500th to 1/1000th.

Plus in order to keep your shutter speed in proper motion blur ranges in relations to your fps, you often need to either sacrifice the ideal aperture for the shot you want, or you have to be bothered with always carrying around and using just the right amount of ND filtering to bring it in range. 

No thanks... Stills aren't going anywhere anytime soon. 4k capture is a GREAT feature, but in no way is it going to replace the flexibility of still shooting.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



nightscape123 said:


> I know we are all busy insulting each other and talking about mostly useless video that 80% of people won't even use, but are we still expecting new lenses to be announced alongside the 5d IV? There was a lot of talk about the 16-35 f/2.8 III being announced with this camera but I haven't heard anything in a while.


I am crossing my fingers for a high quality 24-105 f4L IS II. As far as I understand, we will see upgrades to both the 16-35/2.8 and the 24-105/4.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



nightscape123 said:


> I know we are all busy insulting each other and talking about mostly useless video that 80% of people won't even use, but are we still expecting new lenses to be announced alongside the 5d IV? There was a lot of talk about the 16-35 f/2.8 III being announced with this camera but I haven't heard anything in a while.



I like your thinking. I want to be surprised with the new 50L .... FINALLY. (Please Canon? Please???)


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



uxr51 said:


> 1.- Those that don’t want or care about video: Video is the future. Images will be a thing of the past in some years and they will be merged with video. A video is a series of stills. Just look at how fast video is taking over stills in every media outlet, facebook, instagram etc. Look how many images vs video are published. Times are changing, and they are changing faster every year.



Video isn't the future, video is now. So are stills. 

FB/Instagram is pushing 360°, whether still or video.

Regardless, unless during the "in some time" you're referring to, cameras become able to shoot raw video with the ability to do long exposures (however that would work) or shutter times pushing towards 1/8000 sec whilst triggering strobes at very high resolutions and without creating storage nightmares (who wants to deal with say 30 frames of video versus 1 still when a print is the final output?), then video will not be replacing stills. 



Eldar said:


> It is ok if you don’t care about video. Good for you that you have so many cameras and lenses. You are the 1%. The thing is: it’s not about you, as you say over and over in your post. It’s about the other 99% of the market share.



You have a distorted view of the market if you think Eldar's represents 1% of photographers' collections. It's probably closer to 0.01%.


----------



## RBC5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I think it's important to remember that regardless of the accuracy, these are still rumors and we won't know for sure until the camera is announced. Many of the opinions in this thread seem to be based on the idea that the specs in the original post are fact, when in fact we don't know. What other non-reliably-rumored features does the IV have? Is there perhaps an on-demand AA filter? How much difference would that make alongside the other specs? Most of us don't want it to be an upgrade that makes us say, "Well, that's a pretty good upgrade." We want it to be something that makes us say "Yeah, that's nice. I like the improvements," without expecting the moon. As a previous poster suggested, many of us skip upgrades, and Canon knows this. I had the Mk II and didn't think the III was different enough to spend the money. But the difference between the II and the IV is a really nice jump, and THAT is worth upgrading, even if the aforementioned specs aren't exactly the way it will come. 

Also as others have mentioned, our main investment is in glass, and just as good glass gave me great results in my old 20D years ago, it gives me good results in my 7DII, my 6D for landscapes, macro, and astro-shooting, and it will give great results in the 5D IV. 

Some people are focused on bells and whistles, but my main concerns are increasingly better resolution, dynamic range, noise control, and low-light ISO performance; in short - the quality of the image that ends up in print. That's what I want to carry in a Canon DSLR. (Secondary to those is FPS, but if the improvement is in good IQ this time, I'd be happy to wait for a couple more FPS in the next generation of processors.) For video - I have a nice video camera.


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I am still tempted by a 1DX2 but feel I should wait to see the spec of the Mk4 before I buy, I like the idea of 30mp but don't think it will be the case, 24 or 28 maybe, 30? Odd number but as said, rumours.


----------



## tron (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Eldar said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...


I have 2 5D3's and a 7D2. So I will upgrade. But I must say I am tempted by both 1DxII and 5DsR! I just wait ...


----------



## zim (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Wow so many pages of angst, must be a CR record. Really seemed to take a step up when the 7fps was announced though. I wonder if it had been just 1fps more would that have happened or am I just imaging things?


completely OT but wasn't Bryony Page's trampoline performance to win silver and her reaction absolutely bloomin brilliant YAAAAYYY!!!!


----------



## tron (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> Wow so many pages of angst, must be a CR record. Really seemed to take a step up when the 7fps was announced though. I wonder if it had been just 1fps more would that have happened or am I just imaging things?
> 
> 
> completely OT but wasn't Bryony Page's trampoline performance to win silver and her reaction absolutely bloomin brilliant YAAAAYYY!!!!


I am not among those who complained about it but to tell the truth I was hoping for 8fps...


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tron said:


> I am not among those who complained about it but to tell the truth I was hoping for 8fps...



I was too. I suspect most were. And granted, NOTHING is official yet, so who knows. Having pushed the DX2 to 14fps, they certainly had the marketing room to do 8fps in the 5. I suspect that because the designers and marketing were perhaps more concerned with reaching the 30MP threshold with the sensor, they had to forego that one extra fps for data processing reasons. Again, this is all still horsepoop speculation til the official announcement, but it sure is entertaining! ;D


----------



## 1DX2Uncut (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Next crystal ball topic: How long after "the official announcement" will the 5DMKIV actually be available to purchase?

Typically what will we see on this one... 30 days - or 6 months until we can actually buy it? ???


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

For months it's been set for August announcement and ship in September. Canon wont be dragging this one out



1DX2Uncut said:


> Next crystal ball topic: How long after "the official announcement" will the 5DMKIV actually be available to purchase?
> 
> Typically what will we see on this one... 30 days - or 6 months until we can actually buy it? ???


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



1DX2Uncut said:


> Next crystal ball topic: How long after "the official announcement" will the 5DMKIV actually be available to purchase?
> 
> Typically what will we see on this one... 30 days - or 6 months until we can actually buy it? ???



You're still on the mk4? What about the 5D5?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> completely OT but wasn't Bryony Page's trampoline performance to win silver and her reaction absolutely bloomin brilliant YAAAAYYY!!!!



Absolutely bleedin' marvellous. What a refreshing expression of sheer joy. ;D ;D ;D


----------



## applecider (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I have heard around the chemical developing vats that the 5DIV will have a crop mode wherein the 30.4± MP will crop to 22.4 MP to provide a modest boost for those who choose it. It will be like the old region selector for DVD's though where once you have chosen it you are locked into it for the life of the sensor. One eye blinks twice.

Not a word about radio controlled flash (a doubtful feature), illuminated buttons (I spent a part of last nite at an overlook on the columbia river with a significant portion of Oregon's population seeking perseids, such buttons would have come in handy to keep lighting down, although the cars going through the parking lot took care of that a few considerate drivers shut down their main beams and crept along on parking lights), crop modes, software etc.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



applecider said:


> I have heard around the chemical developing vats that the 5DIV will have a crop mode wherein the 30.4± MP will crop to 22.4 MP to provide a modest boost for those who choose it. It will be like the old region selector for DVD's though where once you have chosen it you are locked into it for the life of the sensor. One eye blinks twice.
> 
> Not a word about radio controlled flash (a doubtful feature), illuminated buttons (I spent a part of last nite at an overlook on the columbia river with a significant portion of Oregon's population seeking perseids, such buttons would have come in handy to keep lighting down, although the cars going through the parking lot took care of that a few considerate drivers shut down their main beams and crept along on parking lights), crop modes, software etc.



I've never used crop modes before on mine, but my impression is that they aren't really crop per se. They have to be imported into DPP to recognize the exif data that says "crop me" or something of the sort. The entire frame is still read when the shot is taken. Only time you have a true in camera crop is when you use video modes that either bin pixels or actually use a cropped area of the frame to record natively.


----------



## Ebrahim Saadawi (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Video thoughts: 

*-4K 30p. 
*
GREAT. 

(People, 60p fries up the 1DXII with it's enormous heatsink so not a matter of CFast. Also, no other camera on the market does more than 30p so it's a strange compaint)

*[email protected] and [email protected] 
*
Not so bad but not great. Good that we'll get 4x slowmotion when we need it for decent 720 HD quality. 

*MJPEG 4:2:2 500Mbps
*
GREAT!!!. Broadcast quality codec and enormous files with tons of film latitude, unparalleled codec by any rival. 

*-30.4 megapixels
*
This means Fullframe 4K for sure. The 1Dx has a sensor resolution close enough to make a 1:1 crop and still have a large size video but with 30.4mp sensor if they do a 1:1 readout too, we'd have a 2.8x 4K crop mode. Which is very unlikely. So I hope they make a nice clean downsample from the FF sensor to 4K. 

*-Touchscreen 
*
But where the hell is my DPAF?


Sad stuff: 

*1 - *No C-Log, just like 1dx. Which means 1DC will still have the most filmic and high DR video in the DSLR line up but it's 5000$ (and the 1DC doesn't have state of the art 30.4mp small body). 

*2 - *No D750 Nikon Tilt like screen 

*3 -* No DPAF apparently? that'd be a huge marketing fail. It's an essential marketing point for canon in the market as they own it exclusively and professionals are using it now even on high end C300II. 
*
4 - *No peaking and zebras, two simple ML features they refuse to give.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 12, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> Video thoughts:
> 
> Sad stuff:
> 
> ...



No C-Log sucks but it's not a Cinema EOS model. Since the 1DX2 was clearly intended as a replacement for both the 1DX and the 1DC, it's more frustrating it wasn't included on the 1DX2. I'm hoping this will also be a firmware update later on along with the full spectrum of HD recording and 4k output via HDMI. At present, the DX2 can only output 1080p 24fps via HDMI. No 4K out. No 120fps in HD out.

Another site claims to have confirmation that the sensor will indeed be DPAF.

We dont know anything about the LCD yet other than touch screen with greater functionality than the DX2 (although I'm willing to bet heavily the DX2 gets a firmware upgrade for this in very short order following the 5D4 release). I'm not sure Canon would do the tilt flip screen on a 5 body anyway. They prefer ultimate durability. Could be wrong.

Peaking and Zebras. It's not on the 1DX2, I doubt we will see it on the 5D4 although no information one way or another has been given on this. Personally, I think video people THAT serious are probably more inclined to use external devices like Atomos which already have that stuff on board.


----------



## 1DX2Uncut (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> We dont know anything about the LCD yet other than touch screen with greater functionality than the DX2 (although I'm willing to bet heavily the DX2 gets a firmware upgrade for this in very short order following the 5D4 release)....



I too would hope this happens. But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



1DX2Uncut said:


> But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!



How about f/8 AF for the 1D X?


----------



## John2016 (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

and here a little bit more in detail about the replacement for the 1DX and the 1DC: 

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1421137/0

"The 1DX2 at ISO 100 improves by 1.5 EV the 1DX dynamic range. It beats the 5DS by about 1 EV. It also beats by about *0.33 EV the 80D.* *However, at high ISO it merely manages to catch the old 1DX (2012), and at the highest ISO levels it falls behind by about 0.3-0.5 EV, due to higher read noise.*

Interestingly, the 1DX2 still shows a noticeable DR drop at low ISO (much more marked than the 80D) but not so bad compared to the old sensor tech. Between ISO 800 and ISO 100, the *80D dynamic range increases 2.13 EV, while the 1DX2 only goes up by 0.97 EV.*
In summary, those shooting the 1DX mainly at ISO 3200 or above, shouldn't immediately sell it: at high ISO, the 1DX2 has a bit more noise (more read noise, exactly the same photon noise -physics laws- and likely the same thermal noise due to the short exposures). But shooting RAW at low ISO the story is very different, and there is a very noticeable improvement in the shadows recovery ability. Nevertheless, high ISO noise "quality" may also have improved (was already good) and JPEG quality could be better thanks to the new processor, so your mileage may vary (not to mention the other camera features besides the sensor). After looking at the 80D data, I must confess that personally was expecting better results in the 1DX2, but that doesn't means that these are not great.

Both the data bellow and the chart above are fully consistent and comparable (all the represented cameras are analyzed exactly the same way); in fact, the 7D2 chart changes slightly compared to the one published in the 80D analysis because I have calculated all the plotted ISO levels instead of interpolating the missing ones. Note in the 1DX2 chart the singularity at ISO 400. It seems a real characteristic, because two different shots (taken with 6 hours of difference, one properly exposed and the other severely underexposed) corroborate exactly the same result. As with ISO 400, for some other ISO levels (3200, 25600, 51200) I had several pictures, and all were analyzed to get more confidence in the results.

Note: all the RAWs (except for the 1DX2) come from Imaging Resource ISO series (the 1DX2 have been received from another source which I won't disclose; please do not ask me for these RAWs).

ISO 100
1DX2 - DR 13.55 at 8MP (12.89 at 20MP), read noise 2.0845 DN
1DX - DR 12.01 at 8MP (11.42 at 18MP), read noise 5.19861 DN

ISO 200
1DX2 - DR 13.40 at 8MP (12.74 at 20MP), read noise 2.31997 DN
1DX - DR 12.07 at 8MP (11.49 at 18MP), read noise 4.98757 DN

ISO 400 (2 samples)
1DX2 - DR 12.81745 at 8MP (12.15645 at 20MP), read noise 3.14005 DN
1DX2 - DR 12.83568 at 8MP (12.17468 at 20MP), read noise 3.10066 DN
1DX - DR 12.02080 at 8MP (11.43580 at 18MP), read noise 5.17441 DN

ISO 800
1DX2 - DR 12.58 at 8MP (11.92 at 20MP), read noise 3.68397 DN
1DX - DR 11.93 at 8MP (11.34 at 18MP), read noise 5.50986 DN

ISO 1600
1DX2 - DR 11.82 at 8MP (11.16 at 20MP), read noise 6.27188 DN
1DX - DR 11.71 at 8MP (11.12 at 18MP), read noise 6.41935 DN

ISO 3200 (2 samples)
1DX2 - DR 11.2831 at 8MP (10.6221 at 20MP), read noise 9.09559 DN
1DX2 - DR 11.2646 at 8MP (10.6037 at 20MP), read noise 9.21231 DN
1DX - DR 11.2559 at 8MP (10.6709 at 18MP), read noise 8.79265 DN

ISO 4000
1DX2 - DR 10.94 at 8MP (10.28 at 20MP), read noise 11.5206 DN

ISO 6400
1DX2 - DR 10.44 at 8MP (9.78 at 20MP), read noise 16.2208 DN
1DX - DR 10.50 at 8MP (9.92 at 18MP), read noise 14.8059 DN

ISO 12800
1DX2 - DR 9.48 at 8MP (8.82 at 20MP), read noise 31.7281 DN
1DX - DR 9.77 at 8MP (9.18 at 18MP), read noise 24.6235 DN

ISO 25600 (3 samples)
1DX2 - DR 8.49289 at 8MP (7.83192 at 20MP), read noise 62.9152 DN
1DX2 - DR 8.49692 at 8MP (7.83596 at 20MP), read noise 62.7387 DN
1DX2 - DR 8.49736 at 8MP (7.83639 at 20MP), read noise 62.7207 DN
1DX - DR 8.79292 at 8MP (8.20796 at 18MP), read noise 48.4779 DN

ISO 51200 (3 samples)
1DX2 - DR 7.52679 at 8MP (6.86583 at 20MP), read noise 122.895 DN
1DX2 - DR 7.53064 at 8MP (6.86967 at 20MP), read noise 122.570 DN
1DX2 - DR 7.52280 at 8MP (6.86184 at 20MP), read noise 123.234 DN
1DX - DR 8.05955 at 8MP (7.47459 at 18MP), read noise 80.6098 DN

This data is very similar to the DXO estimation, but not totally comparable. For example, DXO reports 8.08 EV at ISO 25600 for the 1DX, while the value here is 8.79 EV (this is a extreme case, note that usually the offset is a lot smaller). Here we use the DXO definition of DR, but calculate it directly against the noise floor "fingerprint" recorded by the own sensor (instead of plotting several SNR curves to infere it). So I have more confidence on these results (however, DXO calculates a lot more sensor performance metrics).

The 1DX2 black levels are identical to the 80D (about 512 at ISO 100-200, and 2048 for the rest of ISO levels). Interestingly, had the ISO 400 used a 512 black level, the DR singularity in the chart would almost have dissapeared (but indeed does is 2048). I have assumed a saturation of 16383 DN for a few ISO levels not overexposed (1DX2 ISO 100 DR could be about 0.1 EV less in the worse case, but 1DX reached such white level anyway). The 1DX2 masked pixels area is not huge (72 pixels at the left and 38 at the top, exactly as it is in the 7D2) which partially breaks the recent trend of increasing it (the 1DX used 126 at the left and 100 at the top)."

Another conformation:
http://www.eoshd.com/2016/05/canon-1d-x-mark-ii-high-iso-and-colour-performance-worse-than-predecessor/

And lets not even start to talk about the "damned" battery life:
"With a CIPA-rated maximum of 1,210 shots, the 1D X Mark II looks pretty bad when compared to the Nikon D5’s 3,780 shots. Using Live View on the 1D X Mark II, you will only get up to 260 shots..." So I guess Sony is not alone 

Canon 1D X Mark II vs Nikon D5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_n7c57KdTg

@Peaking and Zebras. It's not on the 1DX2, I doubt we will see it on the 5D4 although no information one way or another has been given on this. Personally, I think video people THAT serious are probably more inclined to use external devices like Atomos which already have that stuff on board.

Really great solution for spending $6k and getting for *1080p /24fps* peaking and zebras. : Welcome in Canon's 2016 world...

@I too would hope this happens. But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!

Only if the competition (Gh5 or A7sIII) come out with 6k or even more... We need to stay in game ;D


----------



## Guillaume GLEIZE (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Then suddenly the 25th of August ... Canon will show a camera named the *5DX* with complet differents characteristics from those written here ... 8)


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Guillaume GLEIZE said:


> Then suddenly the 25th of August ... Canon will show a camera named the *5DX* with complet differents characteristics from those written here ... 8)


or they introduce the 6D2 instead......


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> 1DX2Uncut said:
> 
> 
> > But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!
> ...



Or DPAF for the C300


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
Please have a faster SD slot too 

Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
> Please have a faster SD slot too
> 
> Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.


There are two variations of 5DS (with AA and without AA filter).
The chances of 5D Mark IV will be without AA filter are nearly zero.

It is almost certain that the SD slot will be UHS-II.


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



ajfotofilmagem said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
> ...


----------



## 1DX2Uncut (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> ...Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.



You're absolutely right about that. At my son's wedding, they spent a fortune on the photographer (who was excellent)... but then they left me to shoot video... on my iPhone!!! Hahaha - Even though I'm a pro and could have shot something better for them (on XDCAM), they were happy with iPhone footage! 

Sad, but true.


----------



## JCP (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Only spec that I am not fond of is 30+mp. Totally get that others want that and more and 30 isn't really high but the III's is a perfect sweet spot for us --- we are a wedding studio and just don't need the bump for albums which are our bread. Would rather keep the mp lower and max out the high ISO performance. Most wedding pros that shoot Canon currently use 5DIII as opposed to the 1 series, at least in my experience, and was hoping that would persuade Canon to keep it closer to the 1DXII's res. It's not enough to make us avoid replacing our III's with IV's when needed, tho.

Otherwise, nice upgrade. The 5 series have been amazing for us ever since the sweet files came rolling off the original classic. No need for CFast cards and the WiFi will make it easier than our current work around to post up an image at a wedding and beat the Uncle Bob's on the awesome social media race. : Life left in our current bodies and so we will likely wait a while though -- we use the Profoto B lights and no need to pick up until they get the firmware sorted.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
> Please have a faster SD slot too
> 
> Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.



You bring up an interesting spec point I hadn't even considered. Canon I believe was rather surprised by the demand for the 5DSR vs the 5DS. While 5DS models were amply supplied to retailers, 5DSRs were constantly on backorder when they first released. 

If I were to bet, I'd guess Canon left the AA filter in place. 50MP seems so far to be enough resolution to out-resolve any problems with Moire and Aliasing. I haven't experienced any myself except in one instance and it was very very minor. 

I haven' seen many if any Nikon 810 users complain at 36MP either. But again, I figure Canon leaves the AA filter in. Good debate point though!


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## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



JCP said:


> Only spec that I am not fond of is 30+mp. Totally get that others want that and more and 30 isn't really high but the III's is a perfect sweet spot for us --- we are a wedding studio and just don't need the bump for albums which are our bread. Would rather keep the mp lower and max out the high ISO performance. Most wedding pros that shoot Canon currently use 5DIII as opposed to the 1 series, at least in my experience, and was hoping that would persuade Canon to keep it closer to the 1DXII's res. It's not enough to make us avoid replacing our III's with IV's when needed, tho.
> 
> Otherwise, nice upgrade. The 5 series have been amazing for us ever since the sweet files came rolling off the original classic. No need for CFast cards and the WiFi will make it easier than our current work around to post up an image at a wedding and beat the Uncle Bob's on the awesome social media race. : Life left in our current bodies and so we will likely wait a while though -- we use the Profoto B lights and no need to pick up until they get the firmware sorted.



I'm with ya. My 5D3 is a sweet spot for a lot of what I do with volume portrait work. For the custom portrait work, 5DSR. I'm sure Canon researched the mess out of this, so I have to assume their major bases (guys like you who shoot weddings and such) were largely favorable to a near 30% resolution bump. 

Same time I can appreciate why a 1DX2 in your situation isn't ideal. It's a comparably noisy sucker, especially for weddings. I actually hope the new 5D4 shutter will have the same shutter as the 5DSR. If you haven't shot with that one, it's like shooting stealth with a silencer on the lens. That all motor shutter is really slick.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



The 5DSR is capable of 5fps, limited by the high data rate it has to sling. I've never actually tried the silent shutter mode on it. Even at 5fps, that shutter is a whisper


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## JCP (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> JCP said:
> 
> 
> > Only spec that I am not fond of is 30+mp. Totally get that others want that and more and 30 isn't really high but the III's is a perfect sweet spot for us --- we are a wedding studio and just don't need the bump for albums which are our bread. Would rather keep the mp lower and max out the high ISO performance. Most wedding pros that shoot Canon currently use 5DIII as opposed to the 1 series, at least in my experience, and was hoping that would persuade Canon to keep it closer to the 1DXII's res. It's not enough to make us avoid replacing our III's with IV's when needed, tho.
> ...


Can't complain much about the mp count -- it's really only about 5 or so from where I "hoped" it would be.

I haven't shot a 5DSR -- we've toyed with picking one up for studio work only but haven't. I agree that a 1DX, while a killer camera, just isn't ideal IMO for wedding work (as odd as that sounds). We borrowed a 1DX from CPS to check out awhile ago and the shutter was a big negative for us even though it drove my 85L faster, I felt, and was just a really nice body. Funny thing is that I remember when we first got the new III's and we were both kinda "meh" on the silent shutter when setting it up (like so many, I loved it because of the new AF and the fact that it was dual cards). Once in practice, though, we were hooked on the SS. Just effin awesome during getting ready and ceremony. Before the 5D III, the sound of the 1DX probably wouldn't bothered us much.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



This is why I have a big thing about Cfast and UHS-ii - At the tail end of data transfer waiting for that buffer to empty is a big thing shooting weddings. The rumored 7fps... great...it just means the buffer will fill up quicker.

So when theres the first kiss and I want to spray that with as many frames as possible or the confetti walk is taking place, or during the couple photos when I want the moments between moments I don't want to be held back on either accessing the frames taken or waiting for a buffer to empty.

With the 5Dsr I get 14-16 shots in a burst at 5fps. That's a measly three second burst. On a 5D3 you get the same I think but at 6fps. So again, a three second burst. That's NOTHING. Worst still when it takes three seconds more to empty the buffer.

Doesn't sound like much but in practise it's a big thing. If the buffer output and write speed is high enough you 'should' be able to shoot continuously.

Furthermore, when a wedding takes up about 100-200gb I want to be able to empty those cards as fast as possible ready to copy the images to backup so I can go to bed and shoot another wedding the next day.

If you shoot 50 weddings a year the time adds up. I think it takes about 50 minutes to unload my cards (Sandisk 160mb/s cards). Over a year that's two days used up with the simple process of emptying cards.

It's an issue I have with cameras these days. They're all pretty freaking superb but the devil is in the detail, some things they could of added to the 5Dsr like the 1DX jump to a mode feature (which they added but crippled) would of made my 5DSr much more useful. No Cfast / UHS-ii on the 5D4? might not buy it unless the sensor is super whack as I love not having an AA filter.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Ebrahim Saadawi said:


> Sad stuff:
> 
> *1 - *No C-Log, just like 1dx. Which means 1DC will still have the most filmic and high DR video in the DSLR line up but it's 5000$ (and the 1DC doesn't have state of the art 30.4mp small body).
> 
> ...



well I don;t think it is certain yet, the above are not the complete specs, just parts and pieces
certainly it must have 1,3,4 at the least, no?


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> Peaking and Zebras. It's not on the 1DX2, I doubt we will see it on the 5D4 although no information one way or another has been given on this. Personally, I think video people THAT serious are probably more inclined to use external devices like Atomos which already have that stuff on board.



peaking, 100% live zoom box, zebras have nothing to do with being THAT serious, they are just basic usability functions!


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## Phil Lowe (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > uxr51 said:
> ...



+1000. Content is king!


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## Maiaibing (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



wockawocka said:


> It's an issue I have with cameras these days. They're all pretty freaking superb but the devil is in the detail, some things they could of added to the 5Dsr like the 1DX jump to a mode feature (which they added but crippled) would of made my 5DSr much more useful. No Cfast / UHS-ii on the 5D4? might not buy it unless the sensor is super whack as I love not having an AA filter.



The way you take pictures I'm not sure Canon is to blame that you have a 5DS/R and not a 1DXII.

6 seconds of continuous burst is a very special requirement. If I needed that I'd have a 1DXII in my hands. And even a 1DXII runs out of steam after 10 sec. Smaller sensor, triple DIGIC and all.


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## Phil Lowe (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



> To say that video is just a series of stills is to reveal complete ignorance of both mediums.



Hmmm...So shooting a series of stills with a 7D MkII for the purpose of making a time-lapse movie renders that series of stills as something other than a series of stills?

I don't think you've really considered the technical nature of film (or video). And let's not get into animation. It might really blow your argument up.  

P.S. The attached beaver pic is a frame export from Nikon D500 UHD video (3840 x 2160). At 8.8 MP, I'm fairly certain you could make a very nice print from it. I will send you the full resolution still if you like.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



1DX2Uncut said:


> Ebrahim Saadawi said:
> 
> 
> > We dont know anything about the LCD yet other than touch screen with greater functionality than the DX2 (although I'm willing to bet heavily the DX2 gets a firmware upgrade for this in very short order following the 5D4 release)....
> ...



Very unlikely. Touchscreens are most likely different on the two models.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


And you can start editing after ~1 min. for CF and CFast alike... But hey! Some people love problems.


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## Phil Lowe (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



> This is why I have a big thing about Cfast and UHS-ii - At the tail end of data transfer waiting for that buffer to empty is a big thing shooting weddings. The rumored 7fps... great...it just means the buffer will fill up quicker.



The 7D MkII uses CF and SD and has a large buffer (I routinely shoot RAW + JPG on both cards). Even when the buffer fills, it writes pretty fast! Yes, the extra 10 MP on the 5D4 will slow things down a bit, but that will probably owe more to a single Digic processor handling those larger files. The 7D2 uses dual Digic 6 procs. The 5D4 should use either a single Digic 7 or 7+ proc.


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## wockawocka (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Maiaibing said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > wockawocka said:
> ...



And some people like efficiency. My typical wedding is 12-14 hours long with 3 hours driving. Being able to hit the sack early is priceless especially when you have two weddings in a row. Sure I could take the approach like I do with my batteries, have more than I need so I don't need to recharge them again but I need to get the files uploaded to the cloud overnight for security.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



RBC5 said:


> I think it's important to remember that regardless of the accuracy, these are still rumors and we won't know for sure until the camera is announced. Many of the opinions in this thread seem to be based on the idea that the specs in the original post are fact, when in fact we don't know. What other non-reliably-rumored features does the IV have? Is there perhaps an on-demand AA filter? How much difference would that make alongside the other specs? Most of us don't want it to be an upgrade that makes us say, "Well, that's a pretty good upgrade." We want it to be something that makes us say "Yeah, that's nice. I like the improvements," without expecting the moon. As a previous poster suggested, many of us skip upgrades, and Canon knows this. I had the Mk II and didn't think the III was different enough to spend the money. But the difference between the II and the IV is a really nice jump, and THAT is worth upgrading, even if the aforementioned specs aren't exactly the way it will come.
> 
> Also as others have mentioned, our main investment is in glass, and just as good glass gave me great results in my old 20D years ago, it gives me good results in my 7DII, my 6D for landscapes, macro, and astro-shooting, and it will give great results in the 5D IV.
> 
> Some people are focused on bells and whistles, but my main concerns are increasingly better resolution, dynamic range, noise control, and low-ISO performance; in short - the quality of the image that ends up in print. That's what I want to carry in a Canon DSLR. (Secondary to those is FPS, but if the improvement is in good IQ this time, I'd be happy to wait for a couple more FPS in the next generation of processors.) For video - I have a nice video camera.


Well articulated. +1


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
> ...


Im glad they gave us the option of both. I would out of choice NOT bought the 5DSr, the resolution difference is almost inperceivable. However moire / aliasing is a bugger to get rid of I have bitter experiance of it.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



jeffa4444 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > aa_angus said:
> ...


----------



## tpatana (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



wockawocka said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



If that extra 14 minutes messes up your schedule, you need to plan your schedules better.


----------



## AtSea (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



The point is that if there is a newer technology and better available, it should be adopted. Why not use USB2 instead of USB3? Because we don't have to anymore.


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## Don Haines (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



wockawocka said:


> This is why I have a big thing about Cfast and UHS-ii - At the tail end of data transfer waiting for that buffer to empty is a big thing shooting weddings. The rumored 7fps... great...it just means the buffer will fill up quicker..


On the 7D2 you can set the burst rate.....assuming that the 5D4 can do the same, that should solve your problem.......


----------



## tron (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> Guillaume GLEIZE said:
> 
> 
> > Then suddenly the 25th of August ... Canon will show a camera named the *5DX* with complet differents characteristics from those written here ... 8)
> ...


Or ... they can introduce EOS 5 Mk II (Remember EOS 5 from 1992?) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



wockawocka said:


> And some people like efficiency. My typical wedding is 12-14 hours long with *3 hours driving*. Being able to *hit the sack early *is priceless especially when you have two weddings in a row. Sure I could take the approach like I do with my batteries, have more than I need so I don't need to recharge them again but I *ne**ed to get the files uploaded to the cloud overnight for security.*



Suggestions:


Multiple card readers for simultaneous download
Download to a laptop while you drive home
Set up an automated process (script, etc) to run the process overnight for you (both the local copy and kick-off the cloud backup)

I understand the need for efficiency, but I think the card speed may not be the bottleneck.


O


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



AtSea said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > wockawocka said:
> ...



What if USB3 *cost 2.5x more* than USB2? What if you already had all the USB2 peripherals you needed? What if USB3 wasn't backward-compatible with USB2? 

Does it matter to you if buying a new camera will cost you an extra few hundred dollars for a card format switch? Well, actually it's irrelevant if it matters to _you_...Canon believes it matters to a majority of their target market, which is why the 5DIV will have CF and not CFast.


----------



## E (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

If these specs are correct, then I will not purchase a Mark IV. And I've been waiting for so long. I wanted a Mark III years ago, but rumors said that the Mark IV was so close to be released, so I waited, and waited. For more than two years.

And I was waiting for the only thing that I miss in the Mark III - real slow motion in HD. Mark III already has all I need in a camera for taking stills.

I've been working with film production, and the last 10 years with distribution, and 720p just isn't a serious format. 4K is not so much in use yet, so I don't really care so much about those specs. But I'd say 1080p would be OK for an independent film maker for many years to come. But I sorely need slow motion to be happy with my purchase. I would have wanted 120fps PAL, but I could be OK with 100fps PAL.

I'm not really sure what to do, if these specs are true. I could perhaps afford a 1DX Mark II, but it's heavier and more expensive - which means it's more scary for a lonely photographer to carry around out in the field. And many tests I've seen say that it's not as good a camera as its predecessors, which is a bit disheartening.


----------



## zim (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

A couple of questions about the rumoured 4K video specs assuming they are correct...

Firstly I know absolutely nothing about video, codecs, 4:4:2 (wait that's football)... etc.

I am however very interested, from an amateur perspective, playing with stills from 4K video clips, effectively super fast fps.

So firstly, Am I correct to say you cannot pull a cr2 image from video i.e. it does not shoot raw video? and neither does the 1Dx2 ? even for just a few seconds (out the box ignoring possible future ML on 5D4)

Secondly, on specs alone should the 5D4 produce same/better/worse image quality frame grab as the 1Dx2 ?

Third, would the 5D4 image size be larger than the 1Dx2's ? what size would it be, does it use all of the sensor?

I think I might have snuck a couple of extra questions in there! 

Thanks for any input


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> A couple of questions about the rumoured 4K video specs assuming they are correct...
> 
> Firstly I know absolutely nothing about video, codecs, 4:4:2 (wait that's football)... etc.
> 
> ...



No raw video but motion Jpeg, which is nice if you get the exposure right. But the 5D3 had DNG stills from video via ML admittedly though the image size wasn't that big. With regards IQ the 1DX2 should still have the lead for video.

I can't help but think Canon are holding back on video options so their C line gets more attention.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



Read his post again. It isn't that it messes up his schedule, it's that he prioritizes sleep between two 17-hour workdays. I'm not sure who anyone here is to question his priorities.


----------



## zim (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



wockawocka said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > A couple of questions about the rumoured 4K video specs assuming they are correct...
> ...



Thanks for your thoughts Wocka, so although a frame grab from a 1dx2 would have less data in it (I'm assuming based on sensor Mp's) the overall IQ would still be better because of a better implementation of video in the first place?


----------



## Tangent (Aug 13, 2016)

*New Feature? /Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

So, any more on the "new feature" for the 5DmkIV that has never appeared before in a DSLR?


----------



## candc (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

this is looking to be an excellent all purpose camera (especially if it has a healthy buffer capacity). i am going to get one but this is the last dslr i will ever buy. i really mean it this time.


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: New Feature? /Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Tangent said:


> So, any more on the "new feature" for the 5DmkIV that has never appeared before in a DSLR?


A pop-up DUAL flash?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> Thanks for your thoughts Wocka, so although a frame grab from a 1dx2 would have less data in it (I'm assuming based on sensor Mp's) the overall IQ would still be better because of a better implementation of video in the first place?



The other consideration is that the shutter speed for video is 2x the video frame rate. If you're shooting 4K @ 30 fps, your shutter speed is 1/60 s. If that's not enough to stop subject motion, you'll get a blurry subject...and I find that makes for pretty poor IQ. You can trade frame grab resolution for shutter speed, to a point (e.g. 1080/60fps gets you 1/125 s).


----------



## scyrene (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rcarca said:


> this forum seems to consist of the biggest bunch of maladjusted egos that ever walked the earth.



You can't spend much time on the internet then. People here are pretty polite and nice compared to a lot of places. And actually, a lot of interesting and informative content is shared, in between the bickering.


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your thoughts Wocka, so although a frame grab from a 1dx2 would have less data in it (I'm assuming based on sensor Mp's) the overall IQ would still be better because of a better implementation of video in the first place?
> ...


Yes.

Typically, when you shoot video you want as slow of a shutter speed as you can get away with. Although the individual images may be blurred, when you watch them, the brain interprets the blur as smooth motion far better than it interprets sharp images. If you shoot sharp images with high shutter speed, the brain will "see" the motion as jagged.

This is a fundamental flaw with the idea of just shooting video and extracting still frames from it


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Totally agree on the unloading time. Takes me about an hour to dump a full 128GB CF card (and a very fast one) onto my 480GB SSD with USB 3 transfer all the way. And I have about 75 mins between recitals to unload that card. It's tight. From that perspective, I can understand why even not needed CFast on a 5D4, it would be damn helpful. I wasn't using CFast on the DX2 during recitals either. Didn't own one. But having that extra speed to offload would have made me feel a whole lot safer LOL



wockawocka said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


----------



## zim (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your thoughts Wocka, so although a frame grab from a 1dx2 would have less data in it (I'm assuming based on sensor Mp's) the overall IQ would still be better because of a better implementation of video in the first place?
> ...




Ah, I see and therefore not only subject motion but also 1/60 is below my acceptable min speed for handholding without flash! (sad but true) I don't think I should get too interested in this idea, sounds like I'd be disappointed, was only out of curiosity so no big deal 

Thanks both for the info!
Edit: and Don


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



jeffa4444 said:


> Im glad they gave us the option of both. I would out of choice NOT bought the 5DSr, the resolution difference is almost inperceivable. However moire / aliasing is a bugger to get rid of I have bitter experiance of it.



What little instance I've had with it has been easily remedied for me in LR with the Moire Tool, although I'm sure there are some situations more difficult than others


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > zim said:
> ...


Times have changed. Footage is not always captured for video use. I agree you can't necessarily do two things at once. (i.e. shoot footage for video and for pulling stills)

When shooting footage, there is no imposed time value limitation other than it being equal or faster than the fps. 

If your intention is to shoot smooth video then you follow the 180 degree shutter rule. 

If your intention is to grab stills from video footage then you should shoot with the appropriate time value for those stills whether that is bare minimum to freeze action or the longest duration (equal to fps) for blurred backgrounds when panning.


----------



## zim (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Ok, that's interesting, quick google and... https://vimeo.com/blog/post/frame-rate-vs-shutter-speed-setting-the-record-str

This is stuff I know nothing about and I don't want to hijack the thread. I need to understand how that affects exposure (or how you work out exposure!) so I'm away to experiment with what I've got, thanks all!


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

4:2:2 References the richness of the data/colorspace it's encoding. 4:4:4 is the highest and is found on high end cinema dedicated cameras. 4:2:2 is still excellent.

Frame grabbing from motion capture can be done one of two ways. As Neuro pointed out, If you're shooting a regular old 24fps or 30fps for video, your shutter speed should be double the frame rate in order to get smooth motion blur from one shot to next. On the other hand, this isn't always ideal to making frame grabs as 1/50 and 1/60 sec isn't enough to stop motion. Even at 120fps in 1080p, you still can only shoot at 1/250 sec and even that isn't really high enough. HOWEVER. If you want to shoot in HD or 4K at 24, 30, 100, 120 fps (whatever) and you DONT CARE about having usable video (in other words, all you're looking to do is grab a high frame rate of usable STILLS from it) you can set your shutter speed to whatever you want like 1/500th or 1/1000 or even higher. When you play the video back, it's going to look VERY choppy because your high shutter speed has eliminated the motion blur necessary to making smooth video, but you'll have a great succession of sharp stills. Make sense?

Now as far as data is concerned. 4k is 4k is 4k no matter what camera. it's 8.8MP. Period. Same thing with HD capture. it's 2.2MP. Period. Now different cameras may encode that video differently which would then yeild different file sizes at the end, but the resolution of capture and yield should be identical.



zim said:


> A couple of questions about the rumoured 4K video specs assuming they are correct...
> 
> Firstly I know absolutely nothing about video, codecs, 4:4:2 (wait that's football)... etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> If you are using video to get stills (and not video), why not shoot [email protected] with 1/500?



Precisely. If you dont care about having a smooth motion video, you can up your shutter speed as high as you want and have great, tack sharp 8.8MP frame grabs. I would imagine this is perfect for pro sports shooters who dont necessarily need a 20MP image, although the process to cull through video to find and extract the precise screen grab takes longer than just blasting away at 14fps and nailing the shot within that quick burst


----------



## zim (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> 4:2:2 References the richness of the data/colorspace it's encoding. 4:4:4 is the highest and is found on high end cinema dedicated cameras. 4:2:2 is still excellent.
> 
> Frame grabbing from motion capture can be done one of two ways. As Neuro pointed out, If you're shooting a regular old 24fps or 30fps for video, your shutter speed should be double the frame rate in order to get smooth motion blur from one shot to next. On the other hand, this isn't always ideal to making frame grabs as 1/50 and 1/60 sec isn't enough to stop motion. Even at 120fps in 1080p, you still can only shoot at 1/250 sec and even that isn't really high enough. HOWEVER. If you want to shoot in HD or 4K at 24, 30, 100, 120 fps (whatever) and you DONT CARE about having usable video (in other words, all you're looking to do is grab a high frame rate of usable STILLS from it) you can set your shutter speed to whatever you want like 1/500th or 1/1000 or even higher. When you play the video back, it's going to look VERY choppy because your high shutter speed has eliminated the motion blur necessary to making smooth video, but you'll have a great succession of sharp stills. Make sense?
> 
> Now as far as data is concerned. 4k is 4k is 4k no matter what camera. it's 8.8MP. Period. Same thing with HD capture. it's 2.2MP. Period. Now different cameras may encode that video differently which would then yeild different file sizes at the end, but the resolution of capture and yield should be identical.



Totally makes sense, thanks, hope it's a good day tomorrow so I can try this out........ where's the damn cat when you need him ;D


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Keep in mind, that's just about smoothness..... Video is (typically) far more compressed than a still jpg and unfortunately, the greater the compression, the greater the information loss. Look at what you get from a 30Mp still image (expected 5D4 size) and a video frame..... for starters, the video frame has only a fifteenth (2K) or a quarter (4K) of the number of pixels, and that's a lot of lost info! Plus, if you shoot RAW you have 14 bits of colour info to work with, as opposed to 8 bits on the video frame, and that's a lot more info lost....... and this is without even touching on all those other reasons to shoot RAW.... 

A still gets you many times the image resolution and gets you 14 bit uncompressed data as opposed to the heavily compressed 8 bit data of the video frame. BIG! difference.......


----------



## scyrene (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



E said:


> If these specs are correct, then I will not purchase a Mark IV. And I've been waiting for so long. I wanted a Mark III years ago, but rumors said that the Mark IV was so close to be released, so I waited, and waited. For more than two years.



This is not a good way of deciding what to buy, or when. Rumours are just that - they cannot be relied upon.



E said:


> And many tests I've seen say that [the 1DX Mark II is] not as good a camera as its predecessors, which is a bit disheartening.



According to whom, and in what ways?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> Keep in mind, that's just about smoothness..... Video is (typically) far more compressed than a still jpg and unfortunately, the greater the compression, the greater the information loss. Look at what you get from a 30Mp still image (expected 5D4 size) and a video frame..... for starters, the video frame has only a fifteenth (2K) or a quarter (4K) of the number of pixels, and that's a lot of lost info! Plus, if you shoot RAW you have 14 bits of colour info to work with, as opposed to 8 bits on the video frame, and that's a lot more info lost....... and this is without even touching on all those other reasons to shoot RAW....
> 
> A still gets you many times the image resolution and gets you 14 bit uncompressed data as opposed to the heavily compressed 8 bit data of the video frame. BIG! difference.......



Sometimes. With HD on the DX2, almost the whole sensor is used and the pixels are binned down to HD, so yes you get loss there. On 4k however, if you look at the sensor area it uses for capture, it's actually a heavy crop. There's less compression (if any, the DX2 may actually be reading out pixel for pixel in 4k which means no binning at all, but I'm not entirely sure) So your screen grabs from that sort of 4k would look as sharp as a still shot croped into a 8.8MP area in the center. Granted this doesn't account for variance between shooting the still in RAW vs the video in MJPG, but ya get where I'm going


----------



## K (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

By moving into the 30MP realm, Canon is obviously reacting to the success of the D810. Nikon proved there is a market for a high megapixel do-all camera. That 22-24mp doesn't necessarily own that category anymore. With on-chip ADC and other advancements, higher megapixels doesn't translate as much to a penalty in ISO performance or DR hits. The advantage of lower megapixels for ISO and DR is proportionately less with the newer tech.

I think these specs will be very successful for stills shooters. 30MP gives tons of resolution (after all, 22-24 is a lot), so that there's more cropping ability and/or it gives the camera more well rounded capability for landscape, macro, or other higher resolution applications. It does all that without going overboard into the 36-50MP range where data files become massive and frame rates plummet. Remember, do-all camera...is the goal here.

The biggest sacrifice feature the D810 had was FPS. To get those 36MP, meant dealing with 5fps. That is a real world penalty for a do-all camera. It hurts it badly for action shooting, weddings etcetera. Even 1fps faster at 6fps makes a difference.


On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras. For anyone that's used at 70D or 80D, it is quite a step up. No, it's not a 10fps+ serious action camera, but it is a big step up and has real-world benefits. I view it as being in a new category almost.


With 30MP and 7fps, this is Canon's way of having our cake and eating it. While at the same time, giving high resolution and keeping data under control. High res and fast FPS? What is not to like???

Sure, 8fps would have been great. It would have been monstrous actually and would have probably killed a lot of sales of other cameras including Canon's own lines. 8fps is the entry level of "good enough" for a large segment of those who need action photos. Canon cleverly placed this camera under that threshold, despite the fact that it can handle the data at 8fps based on the rumored specs.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



scyrene said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > And many tests I've seen say that [the 1DX Mark II is] not as good a camera as its predecessors, which is a bit disheartening.
> ...



Only thing I've seen tested that performed "lesser" than the 1DX was color saturation. DX2 wasn't quite as rich, but it was very close. If know of something else E, let's hear it, because I've used both and DX2 is superior in every measure to me.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Not to mention one major difference - you can't shoot video whilst looking through the optical viewfinder, which many of us find useful when tracking moving subjects. I'm not against frame grabs, but their usefulness has been overhyped.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



K said:


> On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras.



Difference between 5 fps and 7 fps is quite small in real shooting terms (as in usable shots captured).

Please explain the shooting situations where it would make any real difference since you think it puts the camera in another "category".

I'm not saying it makes no difference at all and for some it may be important. But that will be a small margin of most action shooting (and irrelevant for non-action shooting).

You need to go to 7DII and 1DXII territory from 5 fps to get any significant boost in output results from added fps.


----------



## deorum (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

5 and 7 frames, is a very nice upgrade, and usefull if you shot action to grab the exact frame that makes the difference (lets say its an expression, or smth else)

Its not easy to describe it, if you dont have personal experience, but its a real advantage.

In WA action shots, it makes much more difference, as your main subject may pass in fron of your frame for less than a second.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

going from 6fps to 7fps (if this info is correct) really isn't that much better. If you really need to grab "THAT" moment 1 extra fps is better but it's so marginally better it's almost irrelevant. Not saying you may not get lucky where the one extra shot DOES get the moment, but if that is so critical to your shooting, then move to a 7D2 or 1DX2. THAT makes a huge difference.



deorum said:


> 5 and 7 frames, is a very nice upgrade, and usefull if you shot action to grab the exact frame that makes the difference (lets say its an expression, or smth else)
> 
> Its not easy to describe it, if you dont have personal experience, but its a real advantage.
> 
> In WA action shots, it makes much more difference, as your main subject may pass in fron of your frame for less than a second.


----------



## Talley (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I have a 70D and 80D on my wifes desk. There is not much improvement from 6-7 however from 6-8 of the original 7D is nice and to 10 of the 7D2 is really really good.

I can definitely see why canon put the stop at 7fps for the MK4. Technical and business reasons. I'll take 7 and go with it. Plenty of other reasons to upgrade. Want more FPS then buy a 7D2 made for it.... they are cheap. Used market you can find em for 1k. cheaper than most lenses you would own.


----------



## djkraq (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

BS. I have the 1DX Mark II and it doesn't even need the cfast 2.0 to write 1080 120p. WTF Canon. I think they'll unlock those other features in the coming months. They don't want to cannibalize sales from their higher tiered cameras I guess.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Maiaibing said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras.
> ...


In this scenario (the second part of a jump sequence) there is no way I would not give up 2 fps - not if it meant only getting 5fps. I could easily have missed the change in facial expression in the spit second between shots with a D810 or A7R II.


Jump for joy by Omesh Singh, on Flickr


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



djkraq said:


> BS. I have the 1DX Mark II and it doesn't even need the cfast 2.0 to write 1080 120p. WTF Canon. I think they'll unlock those other features in the coming months. They don't want to cannibalize sales from their higher tiered cameras I guess.



Actually it has nothing to do with the CFast Card. It has to do with the fact that the 1DX2 employs dual CPUs whereas the 5D series (except for the S and SR) employs a single CPU. Its about data slinging via processor power, not about the write speeds to card.


----------



## Policar (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Can't wait to pick up a 90D when it's announced with 4k. Won't be anytime soon but neither will I have the money soon.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: New Feature? /Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> Tangent said:
> 
> 
> > So, any more on the "new feature" for the 5DmkIV that has never appeared before in a DSLR?
> ...



How about: dedicated HW encoding IC/chip so that the video is actually super good quality, and doesn't overheat as the IC can be optimized for just one purpose.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> Totally agree on the unloading time. Takes me about an hour to dump a full 128GB CF card (and a very fast one) onto my 480GB SSD with USB 3 transfer all the way. And I have about 75 mins between recitals to unload that card. It's tight. From that perspective, I can understand why even not needed CFast on a 5D4, it would be damn helpful. I wasn't using CFast on the DX2 during recitals either. Didn't own one. But having that extra speed to offload would have made me feel a whole lot safer LOL



Sorry but something is choking on your system. My 64GB Lexar CF 1066x dumbs all in <10 minutes if I use USB3 card reader.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



djkraq said:


> BS. I have the 1DX Mark II and it doesn't even need the cfast 2.0 to write 1080 120p. WTF Canon. I think they'll unlock those other features in the coming months. They don't want to cannibalize sales from their higher tiered cameras I guess.



I was thinking exactly same already few days ago, just forgot to tell here (I think... my memory isn't what it used to be... don't get old, trust me).

Basic calculations:

4k res = 4x 1080p res. (in pixels)

120 fps = 4x 30 fps

So if CF can support 4k30, it takes exactly same write speed to do 1080p120.

Next question is why 1DX2 doesn't support 1080p240.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



djkraq said:


> BS. I have the 1DX Mark II and it doesn't even need the cfast 2.0 to write 1080 120p. WTF Canon. I think they'll unlock those other features in the coming months. They don't want to cannibalize sales from their higher tiered cameras I guess.



Sure if you ignore heat management, processor capacity, sensor readout speed and a mydrid of other things.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> djkraq said:
> 
> 
> > BS. I have the 1DX Mark II and it doesn't even need the cfast 2.0 to write 1080 120p. WTF Canon. I think they'll unlock those other features in the coming months. They don't want to cannibalize sales from their higher tiered cameras I guess.
> ...



None of that matters. Can't you see this is all Canon's fault as they try to screw over their customers?!?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > djkraq said:
> ...


Naturally because everyone can make a better camera in their mom's basement these days.

8)


----------



## deorum (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> going from 6fps to 7fps (if this info is correct) really isn't that much better. If you really need to grab "THAT" moment 1 extra fps is better but it's so marginally better it's almost irrelevant. Not saying you may not get lucky where the one extra shot DOES get the moment, but if that is so critical to your shooting, then move to a 7D2 or 1DX2. THAT makes a huge difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with what you say, but why you assume that we are all upgrading from a 5d3? not all of as have already a 5d3. 
i for example use a 1ds3 (yes its old i admit... more than 1M clicks), its 5fps, 
and i also use an 1d4. 
But for my WA action shots, as you can imagine the 1d4 is pretty worthless due to crop-factor, i cannot do real WA. 
The 1ds3 is too slow, cause in WA action shots, the FPS ability to grab the correct frame is crucial, more crucial than telephoto action shots. (try catching the correct frame of a person that jumps above you, at 16mm with 5fps. It needs a lot of tries)

So in my case the upgrade will be 5 --> 7, which is a decent-worthy upgade. If i already had the 5d3, yes i doubt i would sell it and would pay 1K++ difference to get the 1 fps more, unless i was much richer


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



deorum said:


> But for my WA action shots, as you can imagine the 1d4 is pretty worthless due to crop-factor, i cannot do real WA.



So a 14-31mm equivalent isn't wide angle?


----------



## deorum (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> deorum said:
> 
> 
> > But for my WA action shots, as you can imagine the 1d4 is pretty worthless due to crop-factor, i cannot do real WA.
> ...



ofc it is, but its a pretty new lens, and quite expensive i should add. Its not in my inventory and i dont know if it will be on my list for future purchases. why not use a 16-35 i already have and save the money to buy a newer FF body with sports features, lets say a 5d4. I passed on the 5d3, i guess now its the time.


----------



## IglooEater (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> And granted, NOTHING is official yet, so who knows. Again, this is all still horsepoop speculation til the official announcement, but it sure is entertaining! ;D



Correct. Technically, even that their is going to be a 5D IV at all is not official yet. XD definitely a lot of fun reading everyone's speculations.


----------



## JoeDavid (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

•A lot more touchscreen functionality than the EOS-1D X Mark II

I'd like to know more about the new sensor. From the statement "A lot more touchscreen functionality than the EOS-1D X Mark II" I'd expect DPAF functionality and the on-sensor A/Ds for slightly better DR with less noise. Hopefully the additional functionality will be things like easy zooming in on an image in review mode. I do expect this camera to be UHD 4K, not DCI 4K as one of the "lower spec'd" (at least in Canon's mind) camera features compared to the 1DXM2. That doesn't really make sense because they could offer both. It is just a crop that their firmware could handle. It was odd to me that they didn't offer both on the 1DXM2. Canon's insistence on differentiating their top cameras by simply limiting the functionality in firmware is really annoying sometimes.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



deorum said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > deorum said:
> ...



Fair enough that _you_ cannot shoot WA on your 1DIV, but that doesn't make the 1DIV 'worthless for WA' (any more).


----------



## Diko (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

About 10 days before official presentation there is nothing new? :-( 

Every @ Canon stores around the world already have all the info most probably and nothing comes out. I could hardly believe that. :-(((((

Why, oh why? :-(


----------



## mistaspeedy (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Just adding more FPS to stills and videos isnt that simple, it requires an entire system designed for that speed.
Many people are failing to take into account the analog to digital converters, and how their speed influences noise. The more pixels they need to process (either from a higher resolution sensor OR from a higher framerate) the higher the noise (noise from the ADC which is just one of the many sources of noise).

So, adding more resolution, adding a higher framerate, or a combination of both results in more noise from the analog to digital converters. They probably had to compromise on some things in that regard too.

Another thing is heat. Having lots of pixels read at a fast speed requires a bit fat heatsink, like in the 1DX II.
Another issue is battery power... all that processing needs more power to occur. Also, for stills, you will probably need to focus quicker to be able to get those high framerates, which requires higher battery voltage (like the 1DX mark II has).
Another issue is the mirror speed/loudness/power draw which tends to be louder for the faster 1DX II. (keep the speed lower to keep it quieter and less power hungry).
For 4K 60fps, faster storage is needed.

So... to get those higher speeds... the 5D mark IV would probably need:
a huge heatsink (and therefore bigger body)
a bigger, more powerful, higher voltage battery (and therefore bigger body)
a faster mirror mechanism (which would therefore be louder and require that bigger battery)
CFast for 4K 60fps
This camera would need even faster ADCs (more noise) and probably an even more robust heatsink, since we are now reading from a 30 megapixel sensor instead of a 20 megapixel sensor.

Canon wants things to be reliable and wont release products that overheat, freeze and have poor battery life like some competing products.

We can't have it all... there have to be compromises.

What about the 7D Mark II you may ask? It does 10 fps! Yes it does... but the mirror in the 7D mark II is much smaller and requires less power to move than a full frame mirror. It is also a 20 megapixel sensor.

More FPS = more power... the 1DX mark II NEEDS the new battery to flap that mirror at 14 FPS... if you put a 1DX battery in it... it will only do 12 FPS.
We're getting close to the limit of what can be done with the current battery tech... a newer and more powerful battery will be needed for faster (full frame) framerates, unless some other major technological breakthrough occurs.

My guess is that going to 8FPS would not require a 2nd digic processor... of course this is just a guess... and this might be another limiting factor. 60FPS @ 4K would certainly require it.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Diko said:


> About 10 days before official presentation there is nothing new? :-(
> 
> Every @ Canon stores around the world already have all the info most probably and nothing comes out. I could hardly believe that. :-(((((
> 
> Why, oh why? :-(



Simple – you blabba your mouth, you get no stock next time.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 13, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > About 10 days before official presentation there is nothing new? :-(
> ...



Plus an announcement is nothing to do with product availability. August announcement, October / Nov ship.

There's not the many 'Official' Canon outlets really. Amazon, Wex, Park Cameras and so on in the UK at least but all are controllable via an embargo that they'll adhere to. I couldn't sign up to Canon RCC to start selling their cameras and even if I could unless I was turning over a certain amount I reckon I'd be second tier to the big boys who get the first batch and advance info on launch products.

Unless we see some French website screw up a webpage I doubt we'll get any info until a few days before.


----------



## noms78 (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

When do people think this camera will be available to purchase in stores? Late September to mid-October?


----------



## Lurker (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



> going from 6fps to 7fps (if this info is correct) really isn't that much better. If you really need to grab "THAT" moment 1 extra fps is better but it's so marginally better it's almost irrelevant. Not saying you may not get lucky where the one extra shot DOES get the moment, but if that is so critical to your shooting, then move to a 7D2 or 1DX2. THAT makes a huge difference.



Perception is a funny beast. 1/6=17% improvement. 2/5=40% improvement. The other end of the beast, 14 shots/second*1/250th second .056 seconds (or 5.6% of 1 second) captured to film.

If my boss gave me a 17-40% raise I wouldn't complain but if I only did something 5.6% of the time he would.


----------



## Guillaume GLEIZE (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

This sad day when the started building cameras for filming as much as for shooting photos ... This sad day!

Now I have to pay ... What? ... 25% more? 33% more for some film characteristics that I DON'T CARE AT ALL!
Plus I have to stand all those posts about our next camera's characteristic for the film makers .... Arrrg!

Give photo cameras for photo makers please! And please build the film makers their own film cameras!

Brother photographers please scream with me: WE DON'T CARE WITH FILMS! (lol)

OK I ---> :-X


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## Guillaume GLEIZE (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I realise it's normal that those generalist cameras trying to please every still photographers, sports photographers, film makers, animals, landscape, journalists etc. Photographers make everybody scream in his corner to his own needs! I'll check for this new camera then in the futur I'll be searching for specialized cameras only.

8)


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Guillaume GLEIZE said:


> Now I have to pay ... What? ... 25% more? 33% more for some film characteristics that I DON'T CARE AT ALL!



Unless Canon departs from their previous strategy, no, you won't have to pay 25%-33% more. I bet this will come in at right about $3,500. Putting out two versions with individually optimized hardware and software on the other hand would undoubtedly invite higher prices (extra engineering, less supply, etc).



Guillaume GLEIZE said:


> in the futur I'll be searching for specialized cameras only.



About that price premium...


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Maiaibing said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras.
> ...



Showjumping, eventing, dressage, and probably all other equestrian sports. 5 fps is useless, 7 cuts the mustard.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sporgon said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



That's interesting, can you fill in a little on how the 2 fps makes that much difference - exactly why. Not challenging, just asking. I'm at 4.5 and have shot at 10 and been happy but not sure how I'll react to 7 if I choose this camera.

Jack


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## tpatana (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



I shoot sports, and I switched from 7D to 5D3. Fps went 8 -> 6, but I felt the improved high-ISO easily compensated for the loss of 2 frames. Plus better AF on top of that.

Better is better. Same way we could ask if really 20M -> 30M makes difference. 5D3 is 5760 × 3840. Let's guess 5D4 is close to 7000 pixels on the long edge. That around 22% increase, meaning after every 4 pixels you get one extra one. Doesn't sound that much difference if you put it that way. But more is better, you never know when that one pixel was the one that made it look sharper. Same on sports, you never know if that extra 2 fps nailed the perfect moment.


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I'm hanging out for the real spec, waiting to upgrade my Mk3, if the Mk4 does not look good I'm getting a 1DX2 to replace both my main cameras. I fear IQ issues with the 1DX2 after reading people's posts re soft images v the Mk1. I am not sure I want 30MP as after all if I want high MP just get a 5DSR.
I know one thing, no matter what spec the 5D4 is it will never be a 1DX2. I may heal my pain and just get the 1DX2.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



It's due to the forward speed and movement of the horse's body and legs. In jumping, to capture the moment when the horse has just pushed off the ground with its rear legs and is at full stretch coming up, or just over the fence as its landing, with 5 fps you've every chance of missing it. In dressage you want the horse with its foreleg extended at full reach. Miss this and the best horses in the world look like donkeys. Again, 5 fps wont get it but 7 will. I don't do much sports apart from equestrian but I found a significant difference between 5 and 7. Prior to using 7 fps I would have to time the single shot perfectly to get the precise moment I wanted.


----------



## masterpix (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

The main questions regarding the new 5D is ISO range, and noise reduction at high ISO. At 30MP a full frame has about the same sensing pixel size similar to the 20.2MP of the 7DII. The new 5D must have at least the same ISO range as the previous one (Native ISO 25600, Extended to ISO 102400) and noise reduction to match that of the 7DII (best if it will match that of the previous 5D). 

Some people want the new 5D to be 60MP, 14f/sec, ISO 1,028,000, no noise in that ISO, 120f/sec at 4K video and all that in less than 2500$. I wish such a camera could exist, but right now, there is none of that sort. It is a compromise, if you go to high MP sensor, you have to reduce the frame/sec rate. High ISO means noise. And you can't have high rate video on a stills sensor. And as regarding to price, we can still dream that 5D bodies will rain from the sky upon is all.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



masterpix said:


> At 30MP a full frame has about the same sensing pixel size similar to the 20.2MP of the 7DII.



? 

A 30 mp FF has the same pixel pitch as an 11.7 Canon crop surely ?


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Thanks Sporgon.

tpatana, good point, when shooting eagles last year I had the 6D and the 1D4. The 6D was giving me better IQ especially at higher ISOs but I was missing AF a lot compared to the 1D4. I finally just went with the 1D4 unless there was not going to be a chance of action. That was a decision based on the AF as much as it was fps, although in reviewing shots afterwards, clearly 10 fps was what gave me some killer moments. 

If only we could have it all. That's why I have a wee bit of sympathy for some who criticize Canon's choices of what is and isn't included in different bodies. Just a little better AF and the 6D would have been significantly improved, I guess too much improved.

For me at this moment I'm pretty sure it'll be a 1DX II but that 30MP really matters since I'm often cropping significantly. That's the only item. As a stand alone camera the 5DSRr wouldn't do what I need and I'm only willing to pack one (heavy) camera on my hikes.

Jack


----------



## E (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



scyrene said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > If these specs are correct, then I will not purchase a Mark IV. And I've been waiting for so long. I wanted a Mark III years ago, but rumors said that the Mark IV was so close to be released, so I waited, and waited. For more than two years.
> ...



Of course I will not make a purchase decision now, based on the rumor. It's an "if-then" statement. But these specs make me sad enough to finally register on the forum myself in the vain hope that Canon might be scanning the forum to see what their prospective customers think.

And I'm really sorry, but I can't find the tests again. I checked links from the forum and googled for hours the day I wrote my reply, and I saw tests with studio patterns which showed that the 1 DX II stills were less sharp than the ones from the original 1 DX.

And the 1 DX II is still a very heavy and expensive camera for me to carry around, as I am alone when I take photos.


----------



## GuyF (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



arthurbikemad said:


> I fear IQ issues with the 1DX2 after reading people's posts re soft images v the Mk1.



Don't panic, I can assure you the 1DX2 gives razor-sharp images. I've been using it lately with the 70-200 f2.8 IS II for portraits and I'm amazed at the level of detail. Before moving to this combo I had the 5D3 and 70-200 f4 IS so can confirm there is no issue with soft images. I'd normally use the Sigma 85mm f1.4 (got it chipped by Sigma for free to use with the 1DX2) but the f2.8 gives 100% consistant focus.


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GuyF said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > I fear IQ issues with the 1DX2 after reading people's posts re soft images v the Mk1.
> ...



Thanks for the info  I am super keen to buy the 1DX2 and forget the 5D4. My subjects range from Macro, people, birds and motorsports etc so I feel the 1DX2 will do me well for the next 4-5 years. A part of me wants to just BUY IT NOW and another wants to see the Mk4 specs and images, but for that I have to wait and I hate waiting! The ONLY thing that does my nut in a little with the 1DX2 is that shutter NOISE! The 5D3's slick silent shutter is sweet out in the field, on quiet mornings like today even the 5D's shutter seems loud, some say subjects don't take much notice but in my case I know this is a false statement, snapping twigs, dry leaves and Canons mirror slap are unwelcome while stalking subjects that spook easy! That is the only reason I am not holding a 1DX2 in hand right now.... what to do....


----------



## Deleted member 68328 (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Any hints about new sensor / AF technology following earlier patents (shift sensor, etc.) ?


----------



## great9 (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

So people will need to buy the fastest CF cards for 4K filming.


----------



## coldsweat (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sporgon said:


> masterpix said:
> 
> 
> > At 30MP a full frame has about the same sensing pixel size similar to the 20.2MP of the 7DII.
> ...


Correct - I think the OP forgot to do the square root part of the math. IIRC doesn't the 7D2 have the approximate pixel pitch of the 5DS?? So roughly 20mp on APS-C = 50mp on Full Frame


----------



## GuyF (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



arthurbikemad said:


> The ONLY thing that does my nut in a little with the 1DX2 is that shutter NOISE!



The 1DX2 "silent" shutter really isn't so bad. Any wildlife will know there's a human mooching around so a slightly less quiet shutter isn't too much of a problem. You could always video things and grab a frame if noise is the deal breaker. So far the full 14fps hasn't spooked any wildlife for me yet. Maybe my local wildlife is used to the sound of gunfire. 

I was also thinking that the 5D3 replacement would be better for my needs but the 1-series gives so many benefits - better at driving big whites, spot metering linked to AF point and so on. I bit the bullet and traded in the 5D3 and got 24mths interest free on the balance. Plus, if the rumours are to be believed, prices might go up in a day or two - certainly the price of Canon's lenses have gone up recently.

Unless you need 30mp (I wouldn't mind their 120mp thing if it ever comes out), the 1DX2 will give higher fps, lower noise at low ISO and similar noise at higher ISO to the mk1 due to the way Canon now impliment their digital converters, the knowledge you can use it as a small hammer if needed etc. Plus JPEGs straight out of the camera look great (though web opinions do vary).

You live once, buy the best you can afford.


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GuyF said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > The ONLY thing that does my nut in a little with the 1DX2 is that shutter NOISE!
> ...



Good info thanks  I not long got a 500/4 Mk2, I'd like to pair it with the 1DX2 for speed/fps, ISO/noise and AF, I have been a little disappointed of late with AF tracking, low and high ISO noise on my 5D3 , I'd like to de-grip the 5D3 and use it as a small walk about with my 24-70/2.8ii and others like 11-24 etc, kind of lighter weight backpacking etc, however I know IF I jumped on the 1DX2 I expect the 5D3 will end up on eBay haha, closely followed by an order for a 5D4 lolol


----------



## masterpix (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sporgon said:


> masterpix said:
> 
> 
> > At 30MP a full frame has about the same sensing pixel size similar to the 20.2MP of the 7DII.
> ...



Not really. For the sake of the argument: the 7DII sensor pixel size is 4.1microns*4.1microns (canon web page) where the new 5D is about 5.1microns*5.1microns (estimated calculation), ratio of 25 to 16 or about 1.5 more light for each sensor pixel. On the other hand, the former 5D is 6.25microns*6.25microns (canon web page) which is about 1.5 times more that of the new 5D. It is more that twice the light er pixel compared the 7DII. SO the question about noise is still valid...


----------



## adhocphotographer (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Hmmmm,

This is underwhelming.... it's odd the 5DIV won't match the 1DX2 for video.... videographers, don't care for the larger body, or the FPS... 

I'm hoping this is a prototype for photo features, and that they do have a CFast version with better video features... Video is turning into a hefty chunk of my work, and it might be I go for the 1DXII after all! 

Lets wait and see, more will come out in a week (or less), i'm sure!


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



masterpix said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > masterpix said:
> ...


Given sensor resolution
6750x4500 = 30.38MP

pixel pitch is 
36,000/6750 = 5.3micron

Pixel size is an oversimplification. Here are a few other factors: 
-how efficient are the microlenses?
-how stringent is the Color-Filter-Array?
-how absorbent/reflective is the sensor material?
-what is the quantum efficiency?
-does it have on-sensor ADC


----------



## E (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Given my own reaction, and a lot of others here, maybe Canon is wise not to give us what we want in the Mark IV. Enough of us seem to be possible to push into buying the 1D X Mark II instead...

We'll see what happens, when Mark IV is actually released, and we know what is true.


----------



## TAF (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GuyF said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > The ONLY thing that does my nut in a little with the 1DX2 is that shutter NOISE!
> ...




If you have USM lenses and allow them to auto focus, you've already given away the game before you ever release the shutter.

The loudest sound I could measure from my 5D3 was the USM focus motor. I seem to recall it was at 30 kHz, which is well within the audible range for many animals (house cats in my specific case). Worse yet, the mirror clean vibration, while much higher in frequency (around 100 kHz if I remember right), was equally loud and audible to my cats.

So simply turning on the camera and focusing has already alerted the target. If they stick around, the mirror slapping will merely confirm to them you're one of _those_ humans...


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

A big part of me is still hoping Canon surprises up with the 5 body split. 5D4 and 5DC. 5DC arrives with a lower MP sensor more geared at 4k and HD that can at least sling out via HDMI all the 60p 4k and 120p HD. I imagine the lack of internal recording for those speeds would alleviate a great deal of the procesing burden, letting an external device like a Ninja Flame handle the encoding and recording. Everyone is happy.


----------



## theclick19 (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Will a low pass filter be on the 5D mk iv?


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



theclick19 said:


> Will a low pass filter be on the 5D mk iv?



Given Canon's extremely conservative approach I would expect it to have an AA filter.


----------



## gsealy (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> A big part of me is still hoping Canon surprises up with the 5 body split. 5D4 and 5DC. 5DC arrives with a lower MP sensor more geared at 4k and HD that can at least sling out via HDMI all the 60p 4k and 120p HD. I imagine the lack of internal recording for those speeds would alleviate a great deal of the procesing burden, letting an external device like a Ninja Flame handle the encoding and recording. Everyone is happy.



It seems to me that Canon's (and other camera manufacturers) architectural philosophy is somewhat stilted. Yeah, I know people will say they are in the camera business, making money, and you are not. I get that. The thing is that a 5D4 and a "5DC" are essentially the same camera body, but with different features. So then, why not have a base 5D model, and then have additional features/software that can be purchased initially or in the future? A lot of stills-only photographers could care less about video, so why should they bear the burden of the extra cost? At the same time, I would gladly pay for additional video features that we see with Magic Lantern or for external recording with a better codec. Canon designs their cameras as a complete package at a given point in time, and there are very few firmware updates, and precious few feature additions. But the camera could be constructed with a more flexible design with software extensions and plugins available (at a price) for those people who want them.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



adhocphotographer said:


> Hmmmm,
> 
> This is underwhelming.... it's odd the 5DIV won't match the 1DX2 for video.... videographers, don't care for the larger body, or the FPS...



I'm still holding on to the hope about better video, as one old interview (6 months?) mentioned that 5D4 will be better than 1DX2 in terms of video.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



gsealy said:


> ...So then, why not have a base 5D model, and then have additional features/software that can be purchased initially or in the future? A lot of stills-only photographers could care less about video, so why should they bear the burden of the extra cost? At the same time, I would gladly pay for additional video features that we see with Magic Lantern or for external recording with a better codec. Canon designs their cameras as a complete package at a given point in time, and there are very few firmware updates, and precious few feature additions. But the camera could be constructed with a more flexible design with software extensions and plugins available (at a price) for those people who want them.



This is not a bad idea. Although I have no idea how difficult it might be to implement. The problem I see is that we don't know what features require hardware to implement them and what features are so inexpensive to add that it doesn't make sense not to include them. 

There is a general consensus that basic video features add nothing to the cost of a camera and in fact actually reduce the overall cost, because it expands the sales base and DSLRs are at heart video machines anyway. So removing video from a stills camera is not going to save money. 

On the other hand, there may be some specific video- or stills-oriented features that could be offered as software upgrades for a nominal price. Of course, cameras are designed as whole units and presumably, Canon makes as efficient use of the processing power as they can, so who knows if there is much "headroom" to add additional applications.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



gsealy said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > A big part of me is still hoping Canon surprises up with the 5 body split. 5D4 and 5DC. 5DC arrives with a lower MP sensor more geared at 4k and HD that can at least sling out via HDMI all the 60p 4k and 120p HD. I imagine the lack of internal recording for those speeds would alleviate a great deal of the procesing burden, letting an external device like a Ninja Flame handle the encoding and recording. Everyone is happy.
> ...



You could offer software (and firmware) updates in piecemeal (sony does it, none of them seem worthwhile to me), but the platform itself has to support both, so either way you're bearing the brunt of the development cost (minus whatever likely minor portion can be attributed to specialty code addons).

I would prefer a modular approach to the hardware.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> gsealy said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Modular HW and weather proofing rarely mix too well.

FW-enabling sounds good, many companies use that on many products. However, I'm sure they are afraid ML would release version to open everything. So they'd sell base-model camera and ML turns it into super-monster. -> Not going to happen.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > You could offer software (and firmware) updates in peace-meal (sony does it, none of them seem worthwhile to me), but the platform itself has to support both, so either way you're bearing the brunt of the development cost (minus whatever likely minor portion can be attributed to specialty code addons).
> ...



The general understanding is that the 1DX and the 1DC are exactly the same camera modulo the firmware (and a bigger heatsink in the latter) and that Canon has implied that they tolerate ML exactly as long as they keep their hands off the 1 series.

If the ML team were to do something Canon does not like, they would be litigated out of existence in an eyeblink.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



adhocphotographer said:


> Hmmmm,
> 
> This is underwhelming.... it's odd the 5DIV won't match the 1DX2 for video.... videographers, don't care for the larger body, or the FPS...



yes it's odd that canon can't shove a 30WH battery and a huge freaking heat sink into a smaller camera and make it all work.


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> yes it's odd that canon can't shove a 30WH battery and a huge freaking heat sink into a smaller camera and make it all work.



The solution is simple..... we go back to the good old days of video where the videographer wore the battery belt and plugged the camera into it... and mount a big heat sink on the tripod mount....

Then you can look wistfully at the 1DX2 and say "it's so tiny!"......

(and yes, I recognize sarcasm and can partake of it too)


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> adhocphotographer said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmmm,
> ...



Canon may give it focus peaking, zebras, and clog as an example, or the hybrid EVF/OVF
that would make it "better" than the 1Dx Mark II.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > yes it's odd that canon can't shove a 30WH battery and a huge freaking heat sink into a smaller camera and make it all work.
> ...


that'll work! ;D 

or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation.. 





The World's First camera that CAN brew your coffee!


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > gsealy said:
> ...



It doesn't have to be modular at the user level. Think of a camera as a system. The backbone could be developed to support via a speced interface any number of hardware-based addons. Want a video camera? Canon sells you the camera with the video circuitry, and pay for the base setup plus the portion of cost due directly to video. Same for stills, or high framerate, etc. 

At the user level it could be transparent.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



that's difficult to do unless you do a form factor like medium format.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

One good reason you would split the 5 line into a D4 and DC is to have each body optimized with its own feature set tailored to it's primary use. 

Maybe 80% of the camera is identical like the body and ergonomics build quality, etc...

But a 5D4 geared for stills could have the 30MP sensor giving the resolution stills folks want with a Digic 7 etc...

a 5DC could be built with 12MP sensor sort of like the a7S with great upper ISO performance and a resolution that would record 4k with no binning and have a firmware built for video that included all the peaking and zebras etc...

Again, just academic discussion. I know there were rumors in the past that Canon was perhaps investigating splitting the 5 line to do something akin to this. ;D


----------



## unfocused (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Just an overall observation:

50 pages in and it seems to me that much of the angst has focused on video features. 

I conclude:

1) Those who are interested in stills are less worked up about the 5DIV and fall into a few broad categories: those who are satisfied with the rumored specs; those who, based on the rumored specs, are opting for the 1DX II; and those who don't find the rumored specs compelling enough to upgrade and intend to hold on the 5DIII for awhile. 

2) Perhaps those of us who shoot stills underestimate the interest in the 5D series for video work. I knew it was popular for video work, but I had not idea that emotions ran as high as they apparently do.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cripes! I bet that has a strong filter!
Designed from the grounds up, I guess.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 14, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mikehit said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation..
> ...



LOL! 

*dies*


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> The solution is simple..... we go back to the good old days of video where the videographer wore the battery belt and plugged the camera into it...



I used a rig like this for my first video recordings...






(For all you young whippersnappers, the VHS tape doesn't go in the camera, you shoulder-carry the recorder unit.)


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > The solution is simple..... we go back to the good old days of video where the videographer wore the battery belt and plugged the camera into it...
> ...



and now a difference of 150g on a camera .. "is too much" for some..


----------



## Go Wild (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Woow.....just look at this video filmed with the Canon 1DX mkII. What a hell.....How could I buy a fantastic still pics camera, that film like this???? Noo.....I am running now to buy a Sony....

https://vimeo.com/171984449


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...




Well, people do chase weight to diminishing returns. Graphite tripod legs, etc.


----------



## 1DX2Uncut (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mikehit said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation..
> ...




Canon's already done it!






The Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM Lens, White, 16oz (Thermo LenZcup with Stainless Steel Insulated Tumbler) - Available on Amazon... okay, well it doesn't make coffee... but that's coming next year!

And the battery won't overheat! Well, that's a Sony (patent pending) exclusive!!


----------



## TedBedlam (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...

I am really looking forward to the potential of this camera body. All information being speculation at this point, it almost nearly fits all my needs as a hybrid photographer/videographer (I spend most of my time shooting high-end photobooths, event videos, etc.). Given the photographic limitations of products like the GH4 and Panasonic's abysmal customer service, I am glad to find a body and brand which cater to someone seeking to shoot wedding photos as well as occasional video. Mind you, I would be ecstatic if the video turned out to be 4:2:2 10 bit for color grading but I am not well-versed technically to even know if that's possible all other rumors remaining the same. I can see pure photo enthusiasts not needing such additional specs (for a presumed premium in cost) but I've also read some espousing that cost drops due to the expanded market and I'm fairly certain I am inclined to agree with the latter stance given the hubub on various wedding videographer forums - not exactly a scientific sampling, I know. Anyway, here's hoping things turn out better than they're rumored to be and that there one day be a peace between the photo and video folks!


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



TedBedlam said:


> Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...
> 
> I am really looking forward to the potential of this camera body. All information being speculation at this point, it almost nearly fits all my needs as a hybrid photographer/videographer (I spend most of my time shooting high-end photobooths, event videos, etc.). Given the photographic limitations of products like the GH4 and Panasonic's abysmal customer service, I am glad to find a body and brand which cater to someone seeking to shoot wedding photos as well as occasional video. Mind you, I would be ecstatic if the video turned out to be 4:2:2 10 bit for color grading but I am not well-versed technically to even know if that's possible all other rumors remaining the same. I can see pure photo enthusiasts not needing such additional specs (for a presumed premium in cost) but I've also read some espousing that cost drops due to the expanded market and I'm fairly certain I am inclined to agree with the latter stance given the hubub on various wedding videographer forums - not exactly a scientific sampling, I know. Anyway, here's hoping things turn out better than they're rumored to be and that there one day be a peace between the photo and video folks!



Nothing to fret about - this is just a forum where folk have fun!  It's typically only a few personalities that seem to forget that, but they still contribute to the humour. 

Jack


----------



## Phil Lowe (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> A couple of questions about the rumoured 4K video specs assuming they are correct...
> 
> Firstly I know absolutely nothing about video, codecs, 4:4:2 (wait that's football)... etc.
> 
> ...



Correct. You cannot pull a CR2 (raw) image from MJPEG (Motion JPEG) video. 

Codecs and color sub-sampling are two different issues, and one may not have anything to do with the other. For instance, pro AVC/H.264 codecs may use 4:2:2 color sub-sampling while consumer H.264 will probably use 4:2:0. 

My Canon XF300 can shoot up to 50 Mbit Long GOP MPEG-2, but also uses 4:2:2 sub-sampling, while the old DV codec (an MPEG intraframe codec) used 4:1:1.

The only thing you really have to know about this stuff is this: 4:4:4 is better than 4:2:2, which is better than 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 for visual effects work, including color grading and chroma key effects. The higher the numbers when it comes to color (chroma) sub-sampling, the less color aliasing you'll have (we called them "jaggies" where I worked.) Pulling a clean chroma key with nice clean, tight edges requires a minimum of 4:2:2 color sub-sampling. But 4:4:4 (uncompressed chroma) is the best.

The 1DX MkII uses the Motion JPEG codec, as does the 5D4, so exporting stills from either - all other tings being equal - should produce similar if not identical quality.

For video, the 1DX MkII uses an APS-H crop of the center of its sensor for video. Have to believe the 5D4 will have a similar feature.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Phil Lowe (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



> This is a fundamental flaw with the idea of just shooting video and extracting still frames from it



There are applications for shooting high shutter speeds with video for the purpose of freezing action in each frame: sports, surveillance, and - believe it or not - news interviews. Any time you need to pull a "clean" still from video, you want to record it using a high shutter speed (if light permits.)


----------



## mml4 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Also, these people complaining about the (lack of) video features..BUY A VIDEO CAMERA!



Precisely!!!
Marc


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



mml4 said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > Also, these people complaining about the (lack of) video features..BUY A VIDEO CAMERA!
> ...



NO ! There'd be nothing to argue about !

Seriously, there was a first time poster some time back in this thread who stated 'the future is video' and everyone will just take their stills from the 4K vid, and so the 5DIV specs are a disaster etc, etc.

In fact there is a move in some areas towards doing this for still images; I have a friend who is a professional in an international automotive industry, and this is what he is now doing, through demand from the client. But of course he is using a 4K video camera, not a dslr !


----------



## leWrat (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I'm enjoying the arguments (and learning from them) and the speculation.
But the suspense, oh, the suspense is killing m..... arrrrg!


----------



## tron (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

It seems an update in between being incremental (fps) and major (mps). If however there is a significant improvement in the already good IQ of 5D3 it will prove to be a major update. I am talking about low and high ISO noise improvements.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



No, I don't use a smart phone. They don't suit my lifestyle. Why, were you going to send me a 'moment' ?


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> Thanks Sporgon.
> 
> tpatana, good point, when shooting eagles last year I had the 6D and the 1D4. The 6D was giving me better IQ especially at higher ISOs but I was missing AF a lot compared to the 1D4. I finally just went with the 1D4 unless there was not going to be a chance of action. That was a decision based on the AF as much as it was fps, although in reviewing shots afterwards, clearly 10 fps was what gave me some killer moments.
> 
> ...



The ideal fps really depends on your target's movement and your technique. I regularly shoot wild sea birds and I've found that for most of my shots 6fps is more than adequate if I time my shots carefully, don't prematurely fill up the buffer and think about the right moment. I get less shots but more keepers...and a lot less editing and photo selections. I find the 1DX/II users tend to use the spray and pray technique (just as valid technique) but they end up with cards filled with hundreds of shots that need to be massively culled later. Interestingly, the 5DIII has half the fps of the same gen 1Dx, so it's no surprise that the 5D4 has stuck to the same formula.
I've never thought that the 5DIII could do with an extra 1 fps. But it would create different wing beats with landing birds, which may be better or worse. I won't know until I try one!


----------



## H. Jones (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GMCPhotographics said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Sporgon.
> ...



To be fair, you can limit the FPS on the 1DX Mark II. You can set the high burst speed drive modeanywhere from 2 FPS to 14 FPS, with a slow burst speed drive mode between 1-13. I feel like I'll set the slow burst to 8 FPS on my 1dx2 and actually use that mode during work that isn't speed-critical.

To bring it back to the 5D mark IV, I'd think they could implement a similar system. If they gave it 10 FPS for example(absolutely doubt this-- I'm expecting 7 is correct), I could see plenty of people electing to use a lower speed burst. At least it means you're not forced to shoot faster than you want if you're not all about FPS.


----------



## sanj (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GMCPhotographics said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Sporgon.
> ...



Ever photograph a lion hunt? Or a cheetah chase? 12 fps seems just minimum.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

THIS. This is how you make a "first post" in here. And it's probably actually a real "first post" LOL. (How many accounts does dilbert have now? : j/k ). Take notes, some of you...



TedBedlam said:


> Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...
> 
> I am really looking forward to the potential of this camera body. All information being speculation at this point, it almost nearly fits all my needs as a hybrid photographer/videographer (I spend most of my time shooting high-end photobooths, event videos, etc.). Given the photographic limitations of products like the GH4 and Panasonic's abysmal customer service, I am glad to find a body and brand which cater to someone seeking to shoot wedding photos as well as occasional video. Mind you, I would be ecstatic if the video turned out to be 4:2:2 10 bit for color grading but I am not well-versed technically to even know if that's possible all other rumors remaining the same. I can see pure photo enthusiasts not needing such additional specs (for a presumed premium in cost) but I've also read some espousing that cost drops due to the expanded market and I'm fairly certain I am inclined to agree with the latter stance given the hubub on various wedding videographer forums - not exactly a scientific sampling, I know. Anyway, here's hoping things turn out better than they're rumored to be and that there one day be a peace between the photo and video folks!


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates. It often sounds like people take more pride in owning "the best" equipment than they do using it to create beautiful images.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates. It often sounds like people take more pride in owning "the best" equipment than they do using it to create beautiful images.



The aim of a professional is not to create the best possible output - the aim is to produce what the client wants. Period. 'The best' equipment gives you the options to create different outputs for the demands of different clients.


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



TedBedlam said:


> Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...
> 
> I am really looking forward to the potential of this camera body. All information being speculation at this point, it almost nearly fits all my needs as a hybrid photographer/videographer (I spend most of my time shooting high-end photobooths, event videos, etc.). Given the photographic limitations of products like the GH4 and Panasonic's abysmal customer service, I am glad to find a body and brand which cater to someone seeking to shoot wedding photos as well as occasional video. Mind you, I would be ecstatic if the video turned out to be 4:2:2 10 bit for color grading but I am not well-versed technically to even know if that's possible all other rumors remaining the same. I can see pure photo enthusiasts not needing such additional specs (for a presumed premium in cost) but I've also read some espousing that cost drops due to the expanded market and I'm fairly certain I am inclined to agree with the latter stance given the hubub on various wedding videographer forums - not exactly a scientific sampling, I know. Anyway, here's hoping things turn out better than they're rumored to be and that there one day be a peace between the photo and video folks!



Welcome to the forum.

With this crowd if you want a response to your posts it is best to talk in "absolute's"

or post things like this:

"With these kind of spec's no wonder Canon is losing market share."
"With these kind of spec's no wonder Canon is going out of business."
"If Chuck Norris were a sensor for a camera body, he would only need one pixel and be a Sony."


----------



## Orangutan (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> *Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack*. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates.



The proof is in the results. It wasn't too many years ago that film still ruled, and anyone shooting digital was a hack; and not many years before that that anyone shooting less than MF was an amateur. Photo software now has the ability to remove some motion blur from still photos, so why not add motion blur to a series of stills to produce a video-friendly result? Humans have a long history of making things work beyond their original intent.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > I have a friend who is a professional in an international automotive industry, and this is what he is now doing, *through demand from the client*. But of course he is using a 4K video camera, not a dslr !
> ...



Sounds like he'd be out of the job if he weren't doing that.


----------



## ProShootingDigitalSince92 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*

8bit 500mbps MJPEG is about 62.5 Mb/sec. That could work without CFast.
So for MJPEG that would allow just over 2Mb per 4k frame at 30fps.
In my experience 8+Mp images that are only 2Mb aren't that great.
Guess I'll wait to reserve judgement on the images but the spec isn't too exciting for 4k video shooters.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



3kramd5 said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



;D 

Makes sense in a way when you think of videoing a car for promotions, inside and out, and the marketing people can then choose the precise angle / viewpoint etc that they want. Obviously the output is not as high quality, and the novelty may wear off, but at the moment this is how they want him to provide the images. 

The commercial world sees things differently from a photographic hobby artist.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



ProShootingDigitalSince92 said:


> 8bit 500mbps MJPEG is about 62.5 Mb/sec. That could work without CFast.
> So for MJPEG that would allow just over 2Mb per 4k frame at 30fps.
> In my experience 8+Mp images that are only 2Mb aren't that great.
> Guess I'll wait to reserve judgement on the images but the spec isn't too exciting for 4k video shooters.



If it looks like some of the 1DX2 videos I've seen (which I Imagine it should) it will look fantastic.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



sanj said:


> Ever photograph a lion hunt? Or a cheetah chase? 12 fps seems just minimum.



Valid examples, but surely those are a small minority of the situations even professional wildlife photographers find themselves in (other fast subjects would be swifts and swallows in flight, and birds diving, such as peregrines and gannets). And is the 5D4 the camera for that situation? Canon makes a high fps camera. The 5D4 is not it - it's an all-round professional model, which seems aimed at least as much at wedding and event photographers as wildlife and landscape shooters. Surely any increase in fps is a bonus, but there seems to me to be no reason 7fps should be bad and 8fps good, or any other arbitrary cutoff.


----------



## Dantana (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates. It often sounds like people take more pride in owning "the best" equipment than they do using it to create beautiful images.



I'm not sure how you can make such a blanket statement without knowing more details.

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of pulling stills from video, but I'm sure there are places where it would be a viable technique. 

I tend to refrain from calling out someone as a hack until I see their work, and even then I'm not sure I'd blast it publicly. That's just me though.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



PureClassA said:


> ProShootingDigitalSince92 said:
> 
> 
> > 8bit 500mbps MJPEG is about 62.5 Mb/sec. That could work without CFast.
> ...



Yes, but there was a quote I posted from a review site a while back that stated that while 4K was great, the HD results were poor. Not being well versed in video I didn't really get why that was the case so I'm still wondering. I'd be interested in further illumination.

Just hunted for it and here it is. There was a very thorough reply that made sense but it tends to go over my head at this point, not having been doing much video with the 6D.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30001.msg602086#msg602086

Jack


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Dantana said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates. It often sounds like people take more pride in owning "the best" equipment than they do using it to create beautiful images.
> ...



The problem is you're a gentleman!  And then there are the folk who just enjoy the effects of controversy and confrontation, which I must admit sometimes makes me laugh but often cringe, as you're alluding to here. Human behaviour is all over the map but I'm with you on this sort of thing. Let's be considerate! 

Jack


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Jack Douglas said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > ProShootingDigitalSince92 said:
> ...



Here is a summary quote from the review that really sounds bad.

"However, if you thought the Canon 1D X mark II was the next step in video evolution after the Canon 1D C, then you’d be disappointed. It looks as though the video features of the 1D C have been carried over to the 1D X mark II, the valuable log gamma was left behind and *HD mode is now useless* (Why, Canon, why???). At the end of the day there is little difference between the two cameras."


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

So no new updates? We are getting pretty close here... Lenses? More specs? Anything?


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Well I'm out for now....

1DX2 here tomorrow.. 8)


----------



## mnclayshooter (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



TAF said:


> GuyF said:
> 
> 
> > arthurbikemad said:
> ...




+1 - the dog wouldn't stay anywhere in the room when the USM was doing its' thing. On MF, dog would sit peacefully... when on AF - a furry blur could be seen exiting the room.


----------



## ashmadux (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

52 pages and going....holy hell you guys are on your game.

(doesn't have enough popcorn)  8)    ;D


----------



## scyrene (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



mnclayshooter said:


> TAF said:
> 
> 
> > GuyF said:
> ...



One of my sister's cats is the same. The camera doesn't bother him at all, until I try to autofocus and then something about the sound makes him head for the hills. It's not loud, I wonder why they hate it so much?


----------



## Talley (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



ashmadux said:


> 52 pages and going....holy hell you guys are on your game.
> 
> (doesn't have enough popcorn)  8)    ;D



This has been the one thread to bring all the hits to CR. CR owner is loving this right now for sure...

..and I bet if they had more info they are just waiting for the hits to die down and then BAM post more....


----------



## StudentOfLight (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



ashmadux said:


> 52 pages and going....holy hell you guys are on your game.
> 
> (doesn't have enough popcorn)  8)    ;D


Yep, I ran out of popcorn yesterday :'(


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



scyrene said:


> One of my sister's cats is the same. The camera doesn't bother him at all, until I try to autofocus and then something about the sound makes him head for the hills. It's not loud, I wonder why they hate it so much?



How do you know it's not loud? By definition you cannot hear it


----------



## monkey44 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Tried to find this answer, but no luck. Does anyone know if the "kit lens" with the 5DM4 will be a 24/105 L is II (a new version?), or the same one that exists now as a kit in other cameras??


----------



## Eldar (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



monkey44 said:


> Tried to find this answer, but no luck. Does anyone know if the "kit lens" with the 5DM4 will be a 24/105 L is II (a new version?), or the same one that exists now as a kit in other cameras??


Rumors tells us that we will see a MkII.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



monkey44 said:


> Tried to find this answer, but no luck. Does anyone know if the "kit lens" with the 5DM4 will be a 24/105 L is II (a new version?), or the same one that exists now as a kit in other cameras??



I thought I saw it said the kits would be body only, or body with 24-105 f4 L MkII, or body with 24-70 f4 L. But remember not all markets get all the kit options so at this point even those that know about the new lens won't necessarily know about the available kit options by geographic area.


----------



## GuyF (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



arthurbikemad said:


> Well I'm out for now....
> 
> 1DX2 here tomorrow.. 8)



Result! You've just taken your first steps into a better world. 

Unless of course you buy a lemon and the 5D4 proves to be a giant killer. *sigh* You pays yer money and takes yer choice.


----------



## crashpc (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I can´t, I´cant, I can not. Cannot do that. Cannot read it all... :-D


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GuyF said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > Well I'm out for now....
> ...



Cheers Guy, all the hype for the 5D Mk4 has driven me crazy, for me it's ended....haha Anyway I am loving the 500/4ii (got the other week) so much I figure it deserves a decent body, something with a little "punch" , it's cost some dosh but to hell with it, happy days shooting by the river, priceless


----------



## GuyF (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



arthurbikemad said:


> ..I am loving the 500/4ii (got the other week) so much I figure it deserves a decent body, something with a little "punch"...



Yup, same combo I use (I think I may have recommended the lens to you too ). As much as the 5D3 is still a great camera, moving to the 1DX2 is terrific. Poor light? Bang up the ISO and keep shooting!

If you haven't already done so, register your gear with CPS Europe. It's free in Europe and you don't need to be a pro to use the service, just have enough qualifying gear and off you go. One of the benefits is you'll get an extra 1yr warranty for your 1DX2.


----------



## mnclayshooter (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



scyrene said:


> mnclayshooter said:
> 
> 
> > TAF said:
> ...



Ultra high frequency - like a dog whistle. For me - it only happened with certain lenses... all of which are USM (ultrasonic). 50 STM didn't seem to bother him... but he was getting pretty old at that point, hearing loss might have been a factor.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sharlin said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > One of my sister's cats is the same. The camera doesn't bother him at all, until I try to autofocus and then something about the sound makes him head for the hills. It's not loud, I wonder why they hate it so much?
> ...



LOL

Jack


----------



## George D. (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



nightscape123 said:


> So no new updates? We are getting pretty close here... Lenses? More specs? Anything?



Canon are on summer vacation or tuned in the Olympics. For the top stills model we're given video specs, maybe with a grain of salt ([email protected]? confirmed since May: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29923.0). Time to hit the beach (or mountain) until some sensor IQ, ISO range or AF info comes up... 

I was looking for a Foveon sensor actually :


----------



## zim (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Did that little experiment extracting stills using high shutter speed on video, on first try more than anything I have issues with focus. Don't want to ask any more questions on this thread, maybe start a new one. Want to read the manual and try again first ;D


Back to that leak photo, wonder where the microphone holes have been moved to?


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GuyF said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > ..I am loving the 500/4ii (got the other week) so much I figure it deserves a decent body, something with a little "punch"...
> ...



I recall looking at the CPS requirements here in Canada and it seems to me you had to produce proof of earning a living with the gear or essentially that. A 1DX II purchase for me would take care of the rest, so anyone please clarify.

I've been going nuts over this 30 MP vs 1DX II 20 MP since I often have to crop quite a lot. I really want the 1DX II if it were not for that. So the question I guess is this, is it likely the difference is not as great as it would seem based on the trade-offs that come with smaller pixel pitch?

Regarding fps the DP review page has a sequence of shots at 14fps, by skipping i.e. 1,3,5 .... you can see what 7 fps would be giving you. You can slide back one frame and say "now would be happy if I missed this". Of course everyone would like more but this helps to evaluate as opposed to speculate.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Mark-II.aspx

Jack


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

@admin, you said earlier the 5DIV will have better video features than the 1DX2. From this spec list it is far from the case. 
So do we expect real full frame 4k (no crop), C-LOG and so on then?


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> Back to that leak photo, wonder where the microphone holes have been moved to?


If they do a decent job of sealing it, there will be no microphone holes, the mike will be behind a thin membrane.....


----------



## zim (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Back to that leak photo, wonder where the microphone holes have been moved to?
> ...



Would that be the unique new feature then, even the 1Dx2 has those holes ;D


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

;D ;D

Jack


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 15, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > zim said:
> ...


Sorry, I got confused between two cameras.....

You are right, Canon has the holes with the membrane behind it....


----------



## tpatana (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RijB8wnJCN0


----------



## tron (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

After 52 pages of talk on a possibly imaginary camera the thread becomes about holes... ;D ;D ;D


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tron said:


> After 52 pages of talk on a possibly imaginary camera the thread becomes about holes... ;D ;D ;D



Seals for Vapor(ware)


----------



## 1DX2Uncut (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Back to that leak photo, wonder where the microphone holes have been moved to?
> ...



That's because there will be no internal microphone. External mic only! The way real audio is recorded!!


----------



## Cthulhu (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> GuyF said:
> 
> 
> > arthurbikemad said:
> ...



That'd be misleading, regarding fps. No doubt the 1dx 2 will move that autofocus faster and keep the buffer always clean so if I were to limit mine to 6 fps I'm sure I'd get many more sharp shots than my 5d mk3.

As far as mp are concerned, I can crop much more liberally with the 5d3 than with the 1dx2 and I could crop with a 5ds r without ever worrying about it, but if you often find yourself in situations where fps is important than only the 1dx will do it. Eventually you'll adjust your shooting style to make up for it with more interesting compositions or spend the moneys on longer lenses.

Given the price tag the 1dx mk2 should only be of concern for people who need the absolute fastest, you absolutely will sacrifice detail.


----------



## leGreve (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> To reignite the debate on CF vs CFast...
> 
> ... in this thread:
> 
> ...



Which wont matter, because a dslr is by tax law not allowed to record more than 29minutes..... so it will never get cfast, unless ofcourse canon wants to piss on their still costumers economy.


----------



## Rejay14 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



leGreve said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > To reignite the debate on CF vs CFast...
> ...



The 1DXII is a DSLR with CFast...?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



leGreve said:


> Which wont matter, because a dslr is by tax law not allowed to record more than 29minutes.....



In the EU.


----------



## kaihp (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> GuyF said:
> 
> 
> > If you haven't already done so, register your gear with CPS Europe. It's free in Europe and you don't need to be a pro to use the service, just have enough qualifying gear and off you go. One of the benefits is you'll get an extra 1yr warranty for your 1DX2.
> ...



I cannot speak for Canada, but in Denmark you just need two qualifying bodies* and 3 qualifying lenses**. No need to prove that you make money from shooting. I'm at the "Gold" level and I'm just a happy amateur.

*) Ye Olde 50D still qualifies, which is why I kept it around. Should be selling it RSN.
**) Most lenses qualify. Probably not the kit lenses though.

Edit: found the 'qualifying products' list: https://cps.canon-europe.com/Public/QualifyingProducts


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mikehit said:


> leGreve said:
> 
> 
> > Which wont matter, because a dslr is by tax law not allowed to record more than 29minutes.....
> ...



To be precise, nobody stops a DSLR from recording more than 29 minutes of video, in the EU or elsewhere. The EU simply imposes a higher import tariff rate on "video cameras" and stills camera manufacturers want to avoid that.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



kaihp said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > GuyF said:
> ...



Thanks for that. I just viewed the CPS Canada and contrary to what I thought, it states Pro for platinum and cinema but Gold seems only equipment. In proceeding to apply there did not seem to be a burden of proof regarding pro but maybe that gets verified in due course. So, it looks like I will qualify once the 1DX II is purchased. Gold is $100/yr.

Jack


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> Rejay14 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



How about the 1D C, dilbert...is that a dSLR?


----------



## TAF (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...




Yup, I have an iPhone, and if you can tell me where the setting to disable that "Live" feature is, please do.

I find it dreadfully annoying.

If I want video, I'll shot video. If I want stills, please make them, well, still.

Video paper? Might that be an extension of e-ink (Kindle tech)?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



TAF said:


> Video paper? Might that be an extension of e-ink (Kindle tech)?



The Daily Prophet already has it!


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates. It often sounds like people take more pride in owning "the best" equipment than they do using it to create beautiful images.


Some of the most talented fashion photographers in the world are using Red cameras. Go to there web-site and visit the photography tab. ASOS the online clothing retailer has been mixing frame grabs from video for years I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee the two worlds collided years ago. 

Conversely tell Annie Leibovitz she is heading for the scrap heap!


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



jeffa4444 said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates. It often sounds like people take more pride in owning "the best" equipment than they do using it to create beautiful images.
> ...



Don't prick angus's balloon Jeffa ! Some people thrive in ignorance


----------



## scyrene (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sharlin said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > One of my sister's cats is the same. The camera doesn't bother him at all, until I try to autofocus and then something about the sound makes him head for the hills. It's not loud, I wonder why they hate it so much?
> ...



Ha! That's a good point. But I *can* hear it focusing... but not the ultrasonic part (edit: yes, I was only considering the audible part of the noise, silly me!). So yeah, you're right - maybe it's really noisy in ultrasound... I wonder if anyone with the appropriate equipment could do a test?


----------



## E (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications*



Jack Douglas said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



If this is true, then it's really sad that there was no 1D C mark II. I checked release dates, and the 1D X and the 1D C were both released Q2 2012.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



dilbert Old Pal, I do have two teenage daughters, I know all about snapchat and all the rest of that crap. 

Video, filming, moving pictures have a growing place in photography as a whole, but my point is that those that are doing it seriously are using a 4K video camera, not a dslr. 

I break iPhones, and when I'm not breaking them the constant recharging drives me nuts.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sporgon said:


> I break iPhones, and when I'm not breaking them the constant recharging drives me nuts.



This is waaay off topic, but in case it helps anyone... there are things one can do to extend the battery life. There's a 'low power mode' in the battery settings, that turns off some background app data usage, and along with, say, having the screen only moderately bright, I find can make the phone last two or three days between charging with moderate use (though it's worth noting I use the 6 Plus, which has a higher capacity battery than the smaller versions).


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

With the closing ceremony for the Rio Olympics Sunday 21st and Canon announcement Thursday 25th August they have to have cameras in Rio, wonder if anyone has spotted professional photographers with them?


----------



## mikekx102 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I've read most of the posts here. And that's a lot! I would imagine this thread has the highest post count on canon rumors. Anyone know if its true?

One of the things I've noticed is that many people really care about the camera's video performance. Many people have also commented that people shooting video and who care about these features should be using a video camera. I find this last train of thought to be incorrect. Perhaps for Professional use this is good advice, however I'm a novice and although I want a really good all round stills camera, I'm also keen on making screen savers of landscapes. Ie. a loop of waves crashing on rocks. My 6D video quality is absolutely disgusting, so I'm keenly awaiting sample video and 4k video is very important to me.
I'm sure it will be a great upgrade from my 6D and cant wait for it to be released 

Mike.


----------



## Guillaume GLEIZE (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Sorry I arrived on this VIDEO forum by error because I look for a PHOTOGRAPHER forum: Can you tell me where to go to know about the next PHOTOGRAPHY Canon production?

TY - GG - Photographer


----------



## Buck (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



mikekx102 said:


> I've read most of the posts here. And that's a lot! I would imagine this thread has the highest post count on canon rumors. Anyone know if its true?
> 
> One of the things I've noticed is that many people really care about the camera's video performance. Many people have also commented that people shooting video and who care about these features should be using a video camera. I find this last train of thought to be incorrect. Perhaps for Professional use this is good advice, however I'm a novice and although I want a really good all round stills camera, I'm also keen on making screen savers of landscapes. Ie. a loop of waves crashing on rocks. My 6D video quality is absolutely disgusting, so I'm keenly awaiting sample video and 4k video is very important to me.
> I'm sure it will be a great upgrade from my 6D and cant wait for it to be released
> ...




You are comparing a $2800 5d3 camera to a $ 1700 6d camera. You want quality you are going to have to pay for it.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> TAF said:
> 
> 
> > Video paper? Might that be an extension of e-ink (Kindle tech)?
> ...



;D Nice


----------



## mikekx102 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Buck said:


> mikekx102 said:
> 
> 
> > I've read most of the posts here. And that's a lot! I would imagine this thread has the highest post count on canon rumors. Anyone know if its true?
> ...



I'm not comparing a 6D to a 5D III, just saying that that the 6D is what I'm going to upgrade from. And I'm happy to pay for it, I'm just keen for it to be released. I'd prefer it came with a CFast 2.0 Card slot as I have not invested in CF at all, and would be keen to see 4k raw magic lantern video in the future (if it gets released). But hopefully the video quality will be great and so I wouldn't feel the need for raw video anyway.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Fashion models aren't moving erratically in and out of the plane of focus though ;-) Still frame grabs for that sort of work could actually be the most ideal scenario for its use. The model is constantly changing poses and expressions and good 24fps or more at high shutter speeds mixed with constant lighting and a RAW capture (like the Reds can) ... actually pretty perfect, provided you don't need more than 8.8 MP.

With sports or other fast action, even DPAF on a Canon I don't believe can keep up with as good a tracking as old reliable AI Servo can.



jeffa4444 said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone shooting video to create still photos is a hack. Your friend who is a "professional" will be out of business soon if this is how he/she operates. It often sounds like people take more pride in owning "the best" equipment than they do using it to create beautiful images.
> ...


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



jeffa4444 said:


> With the closing ceremony for the Rio Olympics Sunday 21st and Canon announcement Thursday 25th August they have to have cameras in Rio, wonder if anyone has spotted professional photographers with them?



I'm quite sure the 5D4 bodies that are there are either unmarked are falsely marked as 5D III as the bodies will be almost identical and indistinguishable at casual glance. I mean, were I Canon, that's what I would do...


----------



## delta0014 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I think the reason people are talking so much about the video features is that it's almost a given that it is gonna be an incredible camera for stills.

Video is still up in the air. DPAF? 4K? Frame rate for 4K?

As an amateur, I want it to do both if I'm gonna buy it. I don't want multiple bodies, one for video and one for stills.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



delta0014 said:


> I think the reason people are talking so much about the video features is that it's almost a given that it is gonna be an incredible camera for stills.
> 
> Video is still up in the air. DPAF? 4K? Frame rate for 4K?
> 
> As an amateur, I want it to do both if I'm gonna buy it. I don't want multiple bodies, one for video and one for stills.



No question, there are those of us that are not super serious about video but are leaning towards shooting more video if the quality and ease of use improve (DPAF, WOW). When I bought the 1D IV, I didn't even question if it had video and when I found out it did I was surprised given how hidden in the menus it was!

Jack


----------



## PaulMackX (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



mikekx102 said:


> I've read most of the posts here. And that's a lot! I would imagine this thread has the highest post count on canon rumors. Anyone know if its true?


It's about to catch the 7D II thread in this board:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?board=2.0;sort=replies;desc


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PaulMackX said:


> mikekx102 said:
> 
> 
> > I've read most of the posts here. And that's a lot! I would imagine this thread has the highest post count on canon rumors. Anyone know if its true?
> ...



Perhaps the highest post count for a rumor thread, I haven't checked. But for overall post count, with 800-some-odd replies it's nowhere even close to the Show your Bird Portraits thread, which has close to *11,000* posts and nearly _2.5 million_ thread views.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Looks like Canon just won EISA awards for Best Pro DSLR (1DX2) best DSLR (80D) best lens (35L 1.4 Mk2) this year.

Canon is *******. Doooooooooomed!


----------



## Don Haines (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> Canon is *******. Doooooooooomed!



You keep using that word. I do not think you know what it means.....


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Canon is *******. Doooooooooomed!
> ...



Inconceivable!


----------



## unfocused (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PaulMackX said:


> mikekx102 said:
> 
> 
> > I've read most of the posts here. And that's a lot! I would imagine this thread has the highest post count on canon rumors. Anyone know if its true?
> ...



Lots of replies, but doesn't look like very many are finding it interesting and worthwhile (based on the relative number of views). Could it be that people are just talking to themselves?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Don Haines said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Canon is *******. Doooooooooomed!
> ...



Inconceivable!!


----------



## GuyF (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> Looks like Canon just won EISA awards....



Pfff, an EISA award :

Worth every penny of what companies pay for them. As I recall, the 5D3 won its award before it was commercially available. Does that strike you as just a little bit fishy?


----------



## takesome1 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> PaulMackX said:
> 
> 
> > mikekx102 said:
> ...



Says the man who has enough posts to have a successful forum by himself.


----------



## GuyF (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> Says the man who has enough posts to have a successful forum by himself.



Add in any other site he might post on and Neuro could be over 50% of what's on the web.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



GuyF said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Says the man who has enough posts to have a successful forum by himself.
> ...



;D ;D


----------



## zim (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

So anyway about those holes........  ;D


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



zim said:


> So anyway about those holes........  ;D



They're black.


----------



## zim (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > So anyway about those holes........  ;D
> ...



stealth black 8)


----------



## mistaspeedy (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Guillaume GLEIZE said:


> Sorry I arrived on this VIDEO forum by error because I look for a PHOTOGRAPHER forum: Can you tell me where to go to know about the next PHOTOGRAPHY Canon production?
> 
> TY - GG - Photographer



I know most of the talk is about video features... but the 5D mark IV is going to be a very nice stills camera.
It will be upgraded in every way compared to the 5D mark III in stills features... most of which have been listed on the first page! (if the rumors are correct).

Stills feature: nice increase in stills resolution... up from 22.3MP to 30.4MP
Stills feature: faster framerate.... 7 FPS (up from 6FPS)
Stills feature: (not mentioned in this rumor/thread but expected) - new sensor with onboard ADC leading to massive improvements in low ISO dynamic range (same technology that is in the 80D and 1DX mark II)
Stills feature: WIFI... it's for getting your stills to the internet quicker.
Stills feature: USB 3: for getting your stills off the camera faster/better shooting tethered.
Stills feature: GPS: for geotagging your stills.
Stills feature: (not mentioned in this rumor/thread but expected) improved autofocus compared to 5D mark III

We're still in early days, but it's going to be a beast of a STILLS camera if rumors are correct.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Guillaume GLEIZE said:


> Sorry I arrived on this VIDEO forum by error because I look for a PHOTOGRAPHER forum: Can you tell me where to go to know about the next PHOTOGRAPHY Canon production?
> 
> TY - GG - Photographer




huh, and here I thought you'd arrived at a forum relating to a MANUFACTURER.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



mistaspeedy said:


> Guillaume GLEIZE said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry I arrived on this VIDEO forum by error because I look for a PHOTOGRAPHER forum: Can you tell me where to go to know about the next PHOTOGRAPHY Canon production?
> ...



That's a reasonable perspective as you say but we're conditioned to want the whole 9 yards.

Jack


----------



## rushfan21122 (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

http://www.cameraegg.org/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-full-specs-and-images/



Finally, Full specs and images of upcoming Canon EOS 5D Mark IV has leaked online. See the detail below. 5D Mark IV will be officially announced on August 25, 2016.

Specs:

Sensor: Effective pixels 30.4 million pixels, dual pixel CMOS
AF point: 61 points
ISO: 100-102400 (extension) standard ISO up to 32000
Continuous shooting: 7 frames / sec.
Video: 4K 30fps, HD120fps
150,000-pixel RGB + IR photometry sensor
touch screen
Anti-flicker
Built-in GPS, Wi-Fi · NFC connection
Media: SDXC / SDHC / SD, CompactFlash Type II
The main terminal: USB 3.0, HDMI
Size: 150.7 x 116.4 x 75.9mm
Weight: 890g


----------



## Phil Lowe (Aug 16, 2016)

*Re: New Feature? /Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Tangent said:


> So, any more on the "new feature" for the 5DmkIV that has never appeared before in a DSLR?



Rear facing selfie camera.


----------



## Gnocchi (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rushfan21122 said:


> http://www.cameraegg.org/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-full-specs-and-images/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder about that viewfinder hump, do you think it could be detachable?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Gnocchi said:


> I wonder about that viewfinder hump, do you think it could be detachable?



It's a new marketing gimmick - buy a viewfinder for 3,500$ and get a detachable camera thrown in.


----------



## Gnocchi (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Mikehit said:


> Gnocchi said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder about that viewfinder hump, do you think it could be detachable?
> ...


Had another look and it just looks like a plastic cover.


----------



## Gnocchi (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

New button under the joystick looks unusual!


----------



## Marauder (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Looking at the images of the rear, I'm very surprised that it doesn't have the same AF Area Selection Lever attached to the joystick that the 7D Mark II has. This is probably the best ergonomic advancement the 7D Mark II brought to the table and it makes changing AF areas incredibly quick and easy, or it can be customized to do any number of useful things. It was rightly praised by reviewers of the 7D Mark II (pretty well unanimously, at least for any reviews I read). I figured it was a given for the 5D Mark IV (or the 1DX II for that matter). I wonder why on earth they left it off??? 

Puzzled. ???


----------



## Go Wild (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rushfan21122 said:


> http://www.cameraegg.org/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-full-specs-and-images/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Honestly.....Damn....i really don´t like the new LOGO! But of course it´s not that that makes me don´t want the camera. According to specs it´s a fantastic stiil camera and a really great video camera! But, like always, let´s wait for more confirmations and specs, and most important, behaviour in real world!( cause for sure i will not buy the first ones!!!  )


----------



## edilson (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I have no idea about the "rubber cover / input" on the front side.
Any guess? ???


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



edilson said:


> I have no idea about the "rubber cover / input" on the front side.
> Any guess? ???



It's already been stated to be the new position for the remote release socket.


----------



## edilson (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



privatebydesign said:


> edilson said:
> 
> 
> > I have no idea about the "rubber cover / input" on the front side.
> ...



Interesting! Thanks, privatebydesign!


----------



## noms78 (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Marauder said:


> Looking at the images of the rear, I'm very surprised that it doesn't have the same AF Area Selection Lever attached to the joystick that the 7D Mark II has. This is probably the best ergonomic advancement the 7D Mark II brought to the table and it makes changing AF areas incredibly quick and easy, or it can be customized to do any number of useful things. It was rightly praised by reviewers of the 7D Mark II (pretty well unanimously, at least for any reviews I read). I figured it was a given for the 5D Mark IV (or the 1DX II for that matter). I wonder why on earth they left it off???
> 
> Puzzled. ???



Maybe the new button to the upper right of the 'Q' button is the new AF selection joystick? I have no idea


----------



## myjtp (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

120HD YESSSSSSS in for 4


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

from digicam-info:

- これまでに無い後処理の調整が可能なデュアルピクセルRAWファイル

bing translate:

-Unprecedented cleanup adjustable dual pixels RAW files

google translate:

So far it can be to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file

..

I have no idea .. is this the in camera DLO that they are talking about?

anyone know japanese? 

then there's this:

5D Mark IVのスペックは、ほぼ海外で噂されていた通りのようで、Mark III から全体的なスペックを底上げさせたバランス機に仕上がっているようです。新しいデュアルピクセルのRAWファイルは非常に興味深いところですね。ボディサイズはごくわずかに小さくなっているようです。

translated: 

5 d Mark IV specs is like, as had been rumored in the near abroad, seems to have finished in balance machines which raise the overall specs from the Mark III. *New dualpixels RAW files are very interesting. *Body size is slightly smaller is like.



did canon just implement dual ISO?


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> did canon just implement dual ISO?



That's certainly what it sounds like. Very cool if so.

From another thread



fallsong said:


> With my limited Japanese, the # 3 should be: "Unpresidential, and post-process-able dual pixel raw file”
> 
> Could this be the so-called "DLSR first" function?


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sharlin said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > did canon just implement dual ISO?
> ...



what the HE-double hockey sticks would dr folks complain about after that??


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

It's real hard to understand the google translation of all the discussions on DigiCame but there seems to be either talk or questions about a new RAW format, a "Dual Pixel RAW" or some such mention. It could be something truly new like Dual ISO from DPAF, or it could just be badly translated nothing. Guess we find out in 8 days


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> It's real hard to understand the google translation of all the discussions on DigiCame but there seems to be either talk or questions about a new RAW format, a "Dual Pixel RAW" or some such mention. It could be something truly new like Dual ISO from DPAF, or it could just be badly translated nothing. Guess we find out in 8 days


The only other thing I can think of is that they output all values, from each PD pair so you can do computational averaging, etc. 

So you get a 60mp raw at +1ev.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > It's real hard to understand the google translation of all the discussions on DigiCame but there seems to be either talk or questions about a new RAW format, a "Dual Pixel RAW" or some such mention. It could be something truly new like Dual ISO from DPAF, or it could just be badly translated nothing. Guess we find out in 8 days
> ...



I'll take the supposition one step further and ask if such a RAW would be a firmware update to the DX2. Seems logical the DX2 would also have all the hardware necessary to generate such a file (whatever this file is on the 5D4)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> I'll take the supposition one step further and ask if such a RAW would be a firmware update to the DX2. Seems logical the DX2 would also have all the hardware necessary to generate such a file (whatever this file is on the 5D4)



I'll take it three steps back and say it's just in-camera RAW editing/conversion, given the icon on button at the top left. (above Rate).


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > I'll take the supposition one step further and ask if such a RAW would be a firmware update to the DX2. Seems logical the DX2 would also have all the hardware necessary to generate such a file (whatever this file is on the 5D4)
> ...



No too sure. Another ongoing thread offered a better translation than google and if correct (and I believe he is) we have a new RAW for DPAF which makes sense given what ML did with dual iso hacking on the 5D3. Canon could have built a far more sophisticated flavor built in house for DPAF, which would make a lot of sense with that sort of tech


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



ML though did it on line pairs no?

this would be something entirely different. but cool.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yes Line pairing. And if memory serves, you traded off resolution to do it as you had to use two lines (each exposed at different ISOs) and then merge them to one. With DPAF, if the read out could be from each half of each pixel, you'd have something akin to a 60MP readout that wouldnt line skip. The special RAW data would be combined in Canon DPP (LR may never figure that one out lol). Obviously this will slow down processing and I doubt youd get 7fps doing thaT. Im sure it would be a menu option


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



you'd have to assume it'd half the fps so down to 3-3.5 fps or so.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> - これまでに無い後処理の調整が可能なデュアルピクセルRAWファイル
> 
> then there's this:
> 
> 5D Mark IVのスペックは、ほぼ海外で噂されていた通りのようで、Mark III から全体的なスペックを底上げさせたバランス機に仕上がっているようです。新しいデュアルピクセルのRAWファイルは非常に興味深いところですね。ボディサイズはごくわずかに小さくなっているようです。



Here's from my in-house translator (who doesn't know too much about cameras though)

_Completely new (or never seen before) after-adjustable dual-pixel raw file.

Rumor about overseas that was right. From Mark3 all spec has been raised, new product is brought. Dualpixel-raw-file is very interesting. Body size is slight smaller than previous._

Not too clear...


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rrcphoto said:


> you'd have to assume it'd half the fps so down to 3-3.5 fps or so.



50MP on my 5DSR gets you 5fps with dual cpus in there... So yeah Id imagine this would be 3ish unless it uses dual cpus as well. That would be a first for a 5D body that isnt high MP


----------



## tpatana (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



myjtp said:


> 120HD YESSSSSSS in for 4



Hopefully it's full-HD (1080p), not 720p HD.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



tpatana said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > - これまでに無い後処理の調整が可能なデュアルピクセルRAWファイル
> ...



thank you!


----------



## kaihp (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Gnocchi said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Gnocchi said:
> ...


Making the viewfinder cover in 'engineering plastic' (like several of the recent L-lenses) would make sense wrt the wifi, GPS and NFC antennas. There might might be an issue related to how they got the in-molded black color (carbon can be used, but it also affect the RF performance. DAMHIK).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



I'm not sure, either. But I would get your hopes up based on speculation about a translatated rumor.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > No too sure. Another ongoing thread offered a better translation than google and if correct (and I believe he is) we have a new RAW for DPAF which makes sense given what ML did with dual iso hacking on the 5D3. Canon could have built a far more sophisticated flavor built in house for DPAF, which would make a lot of sense with that sort of tech
> ...



Craig updated the post (but I'm not sure if Thomas has insider info or is just speculating!)



> “The way Dual Pixel works, 30MP DP sensor means a 60MP dual pixel raw file with a new RRGGGGBB pattern (vs RGGB), so potentially better dynamic range, and maybe an improved debayering algorithm.” Thanks Thomas


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Sharlin said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Not sure who Thomas is, but with DPAF the 'dual pixel' part is two sub-pixels sitting under the same microlens, which means they're also sitting under the same color lens of the CFA. So I'm not sure how one really concludes there's a new pattern...unless you want a 60 MP RAW file with a 3:1 aspect ratio instead of the usual 3:2 (at least the way Canon diagrams DPAF).


----------



## Marauder (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



noms78 said:


> Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Looking at the images of the rear, I'm very surprised that it doesn't have the same AF Area Selection Lever attached to the joystick that the 7D Mark II has. This is probably the best ergonomic advancement the 7D Mark II brought to the table and it makes changing AF areas incredibly quick and easy, or it can be customized to do any number of useful things. It was rightly praised by reviewers of the 7D Mark II (pretty well unanimously, at least for any reviews I read). I figured it was a given for the 5D Mark IV (or the 1DX II for that matter). I wonder why on earth they left it off???
> ...



Yeah, I was looking at that button too and wondering if it has the same set of custom functions. Perhaps in testing they determined it was the more logical place to put it for the average user's grip--although I certainly haven't found the placement on the 7D II to be a bad one at all. Quite the opposite--it's very well placed and it makes changing AF area with the toggle then going to the joystick for AF point selection very rapid. Curious to see if this new button is its replacement and how well reviewers find its placement if so.


----------



## tron (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


Interesting info. I wonder if Canon can include their dual amplification patent and improve DR somehow. But I am not optimistic. I believe it is too early for Canon to implement this.


----------



## klickflip (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

This sounds great to me, predominantly a photographer that does occasional video jobs too. 
First thing 30MP is GREAT ! And hopefully the dual pixel rrggbb is something to do with helping reduce noise or more detail or colours like Fuji did while back. Also it says a new Bayer layout which would explain a fuji like approach. 

I have friends who used to swear by the Fuji dslrs for colour and quality of image even though they weren't the highest MP they reckoned they had more detail and colour fidelity. 

I've been using the 5D SR sometimes and holding off buying one, the detail and being able to offer larger file sizes to clients for billboards or in store large banners is great. 
The 5`d SR has the same amount of noise as 5D III and it really gets horrible when you push the processing to get a bit more out of shadow areas , whereas Sony / Nikon you have so much more scope to play with processing. 

I'd say this is a great upgrade for photographers and decent upgrade for video guys. 4k is great to offer even tho most clients won't be able to utilise it, but they like buying it! Much more excited about this than when the 5D III got released or 5D Sr. 
Now if they may have developed a great sensor , let's see that in a new 5`d SR mkii next year


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I'll give Craig the nod if he decided to post it, but I'm with Neuro on this. Same microlens, different subpixel, can't see how the pattern changes. I was just assuming this could be where each of the two sub pixels of the pair is simply reading at two different ISOs like 100 and 800 and thus creating a NEW RAW type code that no one but Canon would yet be able to dechipher, and such RAW code would combine the information from each sub pixel back into one, but with the added exposure latitude / DR of a dual ISO exposure. SO the aspect ratio would be the same at 3:2, but RAW conversion would have extra work to bring it back to that


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> I was just assuming this could be where each of the two sub pixels of the pair is simply reading at two different ISOs like 100 and 800 and thus creating a NEW RAW type code that no one but Canon would yet be able to dechipher, and such RAW code would combine the information from each sub pixel back into one, but with the added exposure latitude / DR of a dual ISO exposure. SO the aspect ratio would be the same at 3:2, but RAW conversion would have extra work to bring it back to that



That would require independent amplification circuitry for the two photodiodes in each pixel. Certainly Canon can read them out separately, but doubling the number of amplifiers might be a challenge and would obviously require different hardware. But perhaps that hardware has been part of DPAF from the beginning?


----------



## unfocused (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Whoa there, cowboys, time to rein in those horses.

Better check out this comment from someone who actually understands Japanese.



Sator said:


> ...I think it is written in typical Japanese hyperbolic promotional language. I would not read too much into it as other are doing.
> 
> これまでに無い=previously non-existent
> 
> ...



Like Neuro, I don't know who "Thomas" is, but he clearly doesn't understand how DPAF works and should have never been quoted as an authority.


----------



## Markfocus (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I hope Canon offers a hybrid OVF/ EVF viewfinder so we can use the viewfinder while shooting video. That would be a game-changer for Canon.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Markfocus said:


> I hope Canon offers a hybrid OVF/ EVF viewfinder so we can use the viewfinder while shooting video. That would be a game-changer for Canon.



No need to. Here's a vastly better option:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1086847&gclid=CjwKEAjwltC9BRDRvMfD2N66nlISJACq8591TznPlaF4OHPLhgof1RNxV1mlN7GA9hmpewwKjoSiGRoCCHrw_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677562%2C&A=details&Q=


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 17, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



neuroanatomist said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > I was just assuming this could be where each of the two sub pixels of the pair is simply reading at two different ISOs like 100 and 800 and thus creating a NEW RAW type code that no one but Canon would yet be able to dechipher, and such RAW code would combine the information from each sub pixel back into one, but with the added exposure latitude / DR of a dual ISO exposure. SO the aspect ratio would be the same at 3:2, but RAW conversion would have extra work to bring it back to that
> ...



Ahh, excellent point. I forgot about that. And yes, I suppose it could be already in there, otherwise Canon would (I assume) had to have created a whole new DPAF sensor design for this camera since everything is built on chip now (wait, are the amplifiers on chip too? or just the ADC?). Perhaps the column parallel ADCs will play a role similarly. I dont think 7D2 had that. Predated the on chip ADC builds. 80D and 1DX2 does though.


----------



## TedBedlam (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



takesome1 said:


> TedBedlam said:
> 
> 
> > Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...
> ...



Hah! And many thank yous for the welcome



PureClassA said:


> THIS. This is how you make a "first post" in here. And it's probably actually a real "first post" LOL. (How many accounts does dilbert have now? : j/k ). Take notes, some of you...



You're too kind!

...though I won't confirm or deny my true identity as Dilbert.


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



PureClassA said:


> Ahh, excellent point. I forgot about that. And yes, I suppose it could be already in there, otherwise Canon would (I assume) had to have created a whole new DPAF sensor design for this camera since everything is built on chip now (wait, are the amplifiers on chip too? or just the ADC?). Perhaps the column parallel ADCs will play a role similarly. I dont think 7D2 had that. Predated the on chip ADC builds. 80D and 1DX2 does though.



The (analog) amplifiers pretty much have to be on chip if the ADCs are. Well, I guess unless you have so noiseless ADCs that you can move to completely digital "amplification".


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



unfocused said:


> Whoa there, cowboys, time to rein in those horses.
> 
> Better check out this comment from someone who actually understands Japanese.
> 
> ...



Reading the translated comments following this article, clearly the Japanese readers are interpreting it as something significant, and getting their hopes up.

Jack


----------



## rushfan21122 (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

UPDATE?

Updated detail specs of Canon EOS 5D Mark IV:

Sensor: Effective pixels 30.4 million pixels, dual pixel CMOS
Image processor: DIGIC 6+
AF point: 61 points
Shutter speed: 1 / 8,000 to 30 seconds, valves, maximum flash synchro speed 1/200 sec
ISO Sensitivity: 100-32000 (extended sensitivity 50-102400)
Continuous shooting: 7 frames / sec.
Finder field of view: up and down / left and right both about 100% (at the time of the eye point about 21mm)
Rear LCD: 3.2 inches, Touch panel
Video: 4K at 30fps, FullHD, HD at 120fps
150,000-pixel RGB + IR photometry sensor
Anti-flicker
Built-in GPS, Wi-Fi · NFC connection
Media: SD / SDHC / SDXC, CompactFlash Type II
Battery Life (CIPA): 900
USB 3.0, HDMI
Size: 150.7 x 116.4 x 75.9mm
Weight: 890g
Kit lens: EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM


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## TAF (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



scyrene said:


> mnclayshooter said:
> 
> 
> > TAF said:
> ...




OK, updated info. The USM from my 24-105L is around 30 kHz, and is so rich in harmonics you see signal at 60, 90, and 120 kHz. 30 and 60 are both right in the middle of a cat and dogs hearing (cats are really sensitive around 50 kHz so they can hear mice).

The 30 kHz signal is very loud, on the order of 80 dB (as best I can tell from my equipment).

The mirror cleaning vibration of the 5D3 is a series of sweeps from 100 kHz to >120 kHz (upper end of my equipment) and back down. Similar sound intensity.

The mirror cleaning vibration in my EOS M is a sweep from 110 down to 70 kHz, repeated twice. Similar intensity.

So no surprise the dog/cat responds to the noises.

STM lenses make to discernible ultrasonic noise.

Knowing that the big cats (lions etc) can hear just as well as our little ones in the upper ranges, I wonder if it has had any effect on safari photo events?

FYI, the world is very noisy in the ultrasonic range, both natural and man-made.

(bats are a hobby; owned by cats...)


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## aa_angus (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

So then, no Digic 7 for this camera?


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## PureClassA (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> So then, no Digic 7 for this camera?



Craig hasn't posted that. Someone on this thread did and we don't know the source of any of that information. Digic 6+ or Digic 7 is irrelevant if whatever processor it has the best/right one for the camera. Putting in an overly fast chipset that is overkill for the feature set only serves to waste more battery power more quickly. 

2012-2013
1DX = Dual Digic 5+
5D3 = Single Digic 5+

2016
1DX2 = Dual Digic 6+
5D4 = Single Digic 6+


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> So then, no Digic 7 for this camera?



new versions of DiGiC take around a year to filter into DSLR's when you first see them pop up into P&S.. probably not .. why? it's not as if it'll make much different image quality wise.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



rushfan21122 said:


> Battery Life (CIPA): 900



and thus the reason it's 7fps.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

A spec that I hope to see is illuminated AF points. I know I'm not alone on this one and it may play a role in my decision to purchase the 5D4 rather than the 1DX II.

Jack


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## raydee (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

I think dual pixel raw has nothing to do with adjusting focus. What it could offer would be a grayscale focus map just like an alpha channel, where an in focus pixel would have 255 and out of focus pixel have 0 of value.
That map could then be used to apply sharpening to in focus areas only and gradually decrease it for the oof areas, and vice versa apply more denoising to oof areas only to conserve detail. Add Bokeh CA correction etc etc... Pretty awesome if you ask me...


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## aa_angus (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



raydee said:


> I think dual pixel raw has nothing to do with adjusting focus. What it could offer would be a grayscale focus map just like an alpha channel, where an in focus pixel would have 255 and out of focus pixel have 0 of value.
> That map could then be used to apply sharpening to in focus areas only and gradually decrease it for the oof areas, and vice versa apply more denoising to oof areas only to conserve detail. Add Bokeh CA correction etc etc... Pretty awesome if you ask me...



So you're saying the "in focus" areas would be made sharper? That sounds pretty pointless to me. I think you're wrong about this.


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## raydee (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> raydee said:
> 
> 
> > I think dual pixel raw has nothing to do with adjusting focus. What it could offer would be a grayscale focus map just like an alpha channel, where an in focus pixel would have 255 and out of focus pixel have 0 of value.
> ...



Sharpening oof areas only accentuates noise, targeting in focus areas only is what all common smart sharpening solutions do. With a sensor generated focus map the target would be well defined from the beginning and not have to be generated by filters


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## aa_angus (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



raydee said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > raydee said:
> ...



I understand that, however if you have shot an image with the correct areas in focus, then your job is done. You don't need to sharpen areas of an image which are already tac sharp.


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## raydee (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



aa_angus said:


> raydee said:
> 
> 
> > aa_angus said:
> ...


Capture Sharpening, creative sharpening, denoising, lens optimisation would all benefit from a focus map


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## tron (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



Jack Douglas said:


> A spec that I hope to see is illuminated AF points. I know I'm not alone on this one and it may play a role in my decision to purchase the 5D4 rather than the 1DX II.
> 
> Jack


This is a very reasonable requirement. A couple of months ago I photographed my niece dancing in low/very low light so I understand what you mean...


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## NorbR (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



raydee said:


> I think dual pixel raw has nothing to do with adjusting focus. What it could offer would be a grayscale focus map just like an alpha channel, where an in focus pixel would have 255 and out of focus pixel have 0 of value.
> That map could then be used to apply sharpening to in focus areas only and gradually decrease it for the oof areas, and vice versa apply more denoising to oof areas only to conserve detail. Add Bokeh CA correction etc etc... Pretty awesome if you ask me...



Agreed.

I'm not sure why some expect light-field style post-capture focus adjustment. This requires very specific information, and very specific sensor technology to capture that information (yes, even for small adjustments). Dual Pixel does not help with that. 

And I also agree that it will probably be a fantastic thing to have nonetheless. I'm thinking smart sharpening, where the strength of the sharpening is proportional to the precise distance to the plane of focus. I'm thinking smart noise reduction, along the same lines. I'm thinking an equivalent to PS Select Focus Area, except working absolutely flawlessly and with a lot more versatility. I'm really excited to see what exactly is coming ...


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## raydee (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

It sure offers some exciting possibilities, really looking forward to see what's in the box!


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## rrcphoto (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



NorbR said:


> raydee said:
> 
> 
> > I think dual pixel raw has nothing to do with adjusting focus. What it could offer would be a grayscale focus map just like an alpha channel, where an in focus pixel would have 255 and out of focus pixel have 0 of value.
> ...



and you know this for a fact. not just hedging your bets, but as fact. you've reviewed all canon relevant patents and come to this conclusion.

cool beans. it's always great to have an expert in house.


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## raydee (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

This is a rumor site after all 



rrcphoto said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > raydee said:
> ...


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*

Nothing is a cert until the fat lady sings, and she sings in a few days time haha

I rekon this thread will make a 100 pages before then haha


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## rrcphoto (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image*



raydee said:


> This is a rumor site after all
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed. while I can totally get behind .. "IMO" .. and "it may not.. " and "I think..."

emphatic statements are always interesting


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