# 20D strange shot limit?



## Valvebounce (May 6, 2014)

Hi Folks.

I have an issue with my 20D, I was trying to use it for the first time to take time lapse shots, I intended to make an HD video of a car club event. I know I have better gear in my arsenal, but even the 20D medium jpegs will be big enough for HD, and the suction mount I have has once dropped a camera, it was only in the car, but I don't like the idea of the better camera bouncing in to the footwell so 20D it was. 
The problem is it takes on average 25 shots then stops and waits, then will start again. The timer is a Phottix which I have used to drive my 300D all day before I replaced it with the 20D, so I do not suspect the timer. Also the timer is still running the countdown sequence, just the camera doesn't fire, plus if I do stop and restart immediately the camera will continue for 25 more shots.

Please don't hit me with RTFM, I have RTFM'd and I know that at 5fps the buffer will hold about 20 large fine jpegs depending on things like ISO etc. I'm shooting at 1 frame every 3 seconds, the write led stops flashing before the next shot is taken so I don't think it is a buffer depth issue, especially as I have also tried it on medium fine jpeg which should increase the amount of shots the buffer will hold to thirty or more. 
The camera is set on full manual (1/640th at f11 ISO 400) including focus which I set between 10m and infinity, AF mode was on 1 shot (dont know if this has any effect with the lens set on MF) and drive mode was on single frame. I did have IS on to help with camera movement on our rough roads, but I just finished taking 200 shots of a blank wall with the camera on a stand on a concrete floor with carpet in our living room, so I think that could eliminate the OS as a factor. Over the 200 shots I counted four lots of 25 shots, two lots of 24 shots and two lots of 26 shots all separated by gaps of at least 20 seconds up to maybe 40 seconds.

Sorry for the length of post but I tried to get all the relevant information included to help with diagnosing this.
Any help or suggestions gratefully received, thanks in advance.

Cheers Graham.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 6, 2014)

It could be a memory card issue, not likely, but try it with a different card. 

Can you manually close the shutter and see if it stops after 20 times?

A battery problem either in the timer or camera??

There is no reason I can think of as to why it would stop if everything is working properly.


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## tolusina (May 6, 2014)

Here's a long shot, can't hurt.
Set AF to AI Servo, set it to back button focus, all your other settings the same, including lens manual focus.
See what goes from there.

My logic is based on recent experience trying to help a friend configure back button focus on another older but other brand camera. With BBF and one shot AF, shutter would not fire without focus confirmation.


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## Don Haines (May 6, 2014)

If you change the time per shot from 3 seconds to 5 seconds and it still locks up after the same number of shots, then it is not buffer depth problems.

Btw, have you tried saving as smaller files or on a different card?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 6, 2014)

tolusina said:


> Here's a long shot, can't hurt.
> Set AF to AI Servo, set it to back button focus, all your other settings the same, including lens manual focus.
> See what goes from there.
> 
> My logic is based on recent experience trying to help a friend configure back button focus on another older but other brand camera. With BBF and one shot AF, shutter would not fire without focus confirmation.


 
That's correct, Canon cameras with AI servo must have AF confirmation for the shutter to close.

However, he is using manual focus and manual exposure, so if the camera is trying to focus, its not working correctly.


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## Valvebounce (May 6, 2014)

Hi Mt Spokane. 


Mt Spokane Photography said:


> It could be a memory card issue, not likely, but try it with a different card.
> 
> Can you manually close the shutter and see if it stops after 20 times?
> 
> ...



The card was a 16Gb from my 7D which will happily accept full speed bursts from the 7D without issue, I will try a smaller card in case it is not liking the 16Gb size?
I will try manual shutter using the timer as a guide, to ensure a proper comparison.
The camera battery was fully charged and showing full on the display, I will try a new button cell in the remote and a different camera battery, maybe pop the grip on it and 2 batteries just for proof! 


Hi Don.


Don Haines said:


> If you change the time per shot from 3 seconds to 5 seconds and it still locks up after the same number of shots, then it is not buffer depth problems.
> 
> Btw, have you tried saving as smaller files or on a different card?



I was initially using large fine jpeg, I did try saving medium fine jpeg in the field, it didn't seem to change the shot limit, but I will run a measured test to confirm. 

I will try the longer interval, it might help prove a point.


Hi tolusina.


tolusina said:


> Here's a long shot, can't hurt.
> Set AF to AI Servo, set it to back button focus, all your other settings the same, including lens manual focus.
> See what goes from there.
> 
> My logic is based on recent experience trying to help a friend configure back button focus on another older but other brand camera. With BBF and one shot AF, shutter would not fire without focus confirmation.



Now you mention it the cameras are all set on BBF, I switched it from AI Servo to One Shot due to some logical thought : about focus hunting, I don't think this is the issue as I plonked the camera on the stand about 1.5m from the wall during the test, the focus was still set to 10m from earlier and the camera would take it's batch of OOF images before pausing (I think at f11 the dof might have covered 1.5m but wide open during focus it's definitely OOF) this confirming to me it was not a focus confirm issue. However I will try just in case, can't hurt! 

Thanks Folks, some stuff to try here, I will report back with results hopefully later today. 
One I am going to try using my 40D for a test to see if it is a timer issue? Maybe? Might prove a point. 

Cheers Graham.


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## Valvebounce (May 8, 2014)

Hi folks.
Just to keep you up to date.
I tried a new cell in the remote, no change.
I tried a slightly slower 2Gb card, it didn't get better or worse.
I tried the AI Servo suggestion, but on switching to manual focus the AF box on the display goes blank.
I tried the manual trigger at the 3 second interval, I got to 55 shots before I got a honey can you do.... ;D
I tried my 40D with the remote, no problems, would still be clunking away now if I didn't stop it when it got to 100 shots
I tried switching the IS off, no change.
I tried Av and Tv modes, still paused at 25 shots, ie no change.
Tried with the battery fresh off the charger, no change, didn't get to try with the grip.
Didn't get to try a longer (5s) interval, but the manual trigger works ok.

Cheers Graham.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 8, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi folks.
> Just to keep you up to date.
> I tried a new cell in the remote, no change.
> I tried a slightly slower 2Gb card, it didn't get better or worse.
> ...


 
It sounds like you've definitely narrowed it down to the camera. It sounds to me like its filling the buffer and then stopping while it writes to the card. It really should not be doing this. 

Its not for certain that its not just a limitation of the old camera design, I sold mine many years ago. As cheap as DSLR's are right now, I'd upgrade to a 40D. Mine went on sale on Ebay yesterday, it was the 5th one I owned, but when I took some product photography photos of bright red hats a few days ago, I ran into the old issue of how the reds are over exposed on many Canon DSLR's, and after shooting with my 5D MK III and comparing the reduced for web shots, there was a huge difference in color accuracy and in resolution even though they were only 1024 X 1024. Now, I'm using the 5D3 for that, even though I did not buy it for that purpose. I might buy a refurb 70D tp replace it once Canon starts offering it on the Canon Loyalty Program for 20% off the refurb price.


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## philmoz (May 8, 2014)

Probably a long shot; but have you tried resetting all camera settings, and removing both batteries for a while.

Phil.


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## Valvebounce (May 8, 2014)

Hi Mt Spokane. 
I suspected the buffer, but if I manually press the button every 3 seconds, using the timer remote disconected just to watch for the moment to press the button, it will go well past the 24-26 limit encountered when triggered remotely, I got to 55 without problem until I was called away from my fiddling. 

Hi Phil.
I haven't done a full reset yet, and I shy away from that, probably because I forget there is so little to customise compared to the 40D and 7D. The 7D is somewhat of a nightmare to reconfigure after a full reset! 

Cheers Graham.




philmoz said:


> Probably a long shot; but have you tried resetting all camera settings, and removing both batteries for a while.
> 
> Phil.


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## BumpyMunky (May 9, 2014)

Any chance you have the auto power-off setting enabled? Maybe the 20d doesn't see the remote the same as a button press?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 10, 2014)

Well, I bought a 20D today just to check it and see if it does the same. 

Actually, it was $120 with 2 lenses, and was working, so I figured I'd play with it for a while, and then sell it separately from the lenses.

I have a Canon self timer that I'll try, it might be a couple days before I manage to find time.


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## Valvebounce (May 10, 2014)

Hi BumpyMunky.
The power off is set to 4 minutes, and the shot interval is 3 seconds, so at 25 shots it is pausing long before the sleep time, however I will try disabling the power off setting.

Hi Mt Spokane. 
I say old bean, how jolly decent of you to buy a camera just to research my issue. ;D I would appreciate you doing some research of this kind. In case it helps the card I started off using was a 16Gb Kingston Ultimate 600x then I tried a 2Gb Kingston Standard to eliminate the possibility of the camera not liking the large card, (clutching at straws!) nothing different. 
Just out of interest were the lenses anything interesting? 

Cheers Graham.



BumpyMunky said:


> Any chance you have the auto power-off setting enabled? Maybe the 20d doesn't see the remote the same as a button press?





Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Well, I bought a 20D today just to check it and see if it does the same.
> 
> Actually, it was $120 with 2 lenses, and was working, so I figured I'd play with it for a while, and then sell it separately from the lenses.
> 
> I have a Canon self timer that I'll try, it might be a couple days before I manage to find time.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 10, 2014)

It came with a card in it that I haven't looked at, and a 85 MB card as well. There was even a SD card in with it.

I remember when I bought a 85MB card for my Nikon CP990 back around 2001. It cost almost $300. Back then, P&S cameras came with 2, 4, or sometimes 8mb cards. but, as now, DSLR's did not include cards.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 11, 2014)

I pulled out the 20D today, and looked at the card in the camera, it was a old Hitachi 6GB Type II Microdrive. Talk about old.

I had a no name (Literally) 4GB card laying around, so after charging the battery, cleaning the sensor and a general checkup, as well as clearing all the settings, and then setting it to raw, I gave it a try. 

I hooked up my Canon TC-80N3 and shot off about 40 images at ISO 400, 1/50 sec in manual mode with manual focus and 3 sec intervals. I could see it was taking about 2 seconds for the light to go out, and then, I realized it was in raw, so the files were larger.

Then I switched to large jpeg, and shot another 40 in a row with no issue.

I then put a faster spare Sandisk 16 GB 60mb/sec card in and shot off 50 images at 1/sec with no delays. 

Finally, I put the old generic card back in and shot off 50 images on one sec intervals. The write light just barely flickered between shots, but it was obvious that it could keep going forever that way with a slow card.

Its somewhat a puzzle as to why your camera is stopping, but I would clear it back to the original settings and try that. There are some settings that could cause issues, so its best to test it with the default settings.

I like the old camera, it works well. The small LCD is really the only drawback. The sensor does have a few white pixels, but that's pretty normal for a old sensor, and NR in Lightroom removes them in any event.


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## Valvebounce (May 11, 2014)

Hi Mt Spokane. 
I had a play last night, set the power off to off, also set 1 second interval, got to 75 shots and pause? Tried camera reset, only change I made from default was to turn power off again, tried 1 second increments through to 6 seconds, and it seems from 1 through 4 seconds to pause, then for 5 and 6 second intervals and most likely on up there is no pause, I left it to run a 99 shot sequence and had 99 shots on the card. I did wonder if it was the folder creation point that paused, but even over several pause cycles, not one was on a folder boundary, sometimes ten shots before, or after never at the new folder point. 
I'm convinced that it s not a buffer issue as the write led is not flashing at all during he pause, and the fact it got 75 shots at 1sec interval before pausing. 
Edit this would put the time at about the same as before, 25 shots at 3 seconds. end edit.
My conclusion is that the Phottix remote is the issue, I am going to check but I think that I have used it successfully on my 40D at this interval, so perhaps it is just not fully compatible with the 20D? 

The 20D does seem to me to be a very capable camera, I have used it a lot for documenting my work on classic cars, it seems to produce good images even with the on camera flash upside down under cars where a separate flash is impractical!

I have a 4Gb Hitachi microdrive, I bought it on my first trip to the USA, it was considerably cheaper than a smaller CF card, can't remember what size the CF was, 2Gb I think but as I wanted the capacity and the speed was adequate for my 300D on full speed it was a no brainer! 

What lenses was it you got with the camera, hopefully 2 you want or need! 
Thanks for your feedback. 

Cheers Graham.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I pulled out the 20D today, and looked at the card in the camera, it was a old Hitachi 6GB Type II Microdrive. Talk about old.
> 
> I had a no name (Literally) 4GB card laying around, so after charging the battery, cleaning the sensor and a general checkup, as well as clearing all the settings, and then setting it to raw, I gave it a try.
> 
> ...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 11, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> What lenses was it you got with the camera, hopefully 2 you want or need!
> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> Cheers Graham.


 
I bought the camera at a estate sale because it looked good, and I tried it out. It cost me $125 with the standard 18-55mm and the 75-300mm USM lenses. It also had a nice case, and a nice Lowe Pro lens case for the 75-300 along with a Cokin CPL. The owner had left thousands of 35mm slides, presumably taken with the AE-1 that was also at the sale. I was tempted to buy them. After reviewing the photos on the card, I decided that the owner was not really into photography, and the slides would be mostly a waste. He had documented his rebuild of a old junk Volkswagen Bug. It was total junk to begin with, and patched up junk at the end, the frame had so many welded patches on it to cover up rusted holes that it looked like a patchwork quilt. He did grind them and cover them up so they were not easily visible.

I have the camera + 18-55 and the 75-300mm USM listed on craigslist already. I may keep the Canon branded case, and for sure I'll keep the lens case.


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## Valvebounce (May 11, 2014)

Hi Mt Spokane. 
I have welded up frames, but you don't cover holes, you cut them out a decent size, cut a plate of the correct gauge material slightly smaller than he hole, weld it in flush and grind the welds down and paint it, gone no trace, repaired properly the only difference in strength compared to the factory new condition is the slightly weaker heat affected zone, and if done well the heat will have been minimal.

My apologies, I thought you got the kit for stuff you wanted, I see a little speculate to accumulate happening! ;D 
I hope you got a good enough bargain at $125 to sell it for a good profit and for the buyer to feel they got a good deal, happiness all round.

Cheers Graham.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> the frame had so many welded patches on it to cover up rusted holes that it looked like a patchwork quilt. He did grind them and cover them up so they were not easily visible.
> 
> I have the camera + 18-55 and the 75-300mm USM listed on craigslist already. I may keep the Canon branded case, and for sure I'll keep the lens case.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 11, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Mt Spokane.
> I had a play last night, set the power off to off, also set 1 second interval, got to 75 shots and pause? Tried camera reset, only change I made from default was to turn power off again, tried 1 second increments through to 6 seconds, and it seems from 1 through 4 seconds to pause, then for 5 and 6 second intervals and most likely on up there is no pause, I left it to run a 99 shot sequence and had 99 shots on the card. I did wonder if it was the folder creation point that paused, but even over several pause cycles, not one was on a folder boundary, sometimes ten shots before, or after never at the new folder point.
> I'm convinced that it s not a buffer issue as the write led is not flashing at all during he pause, and the fact it got 75 shots at 1sec interval before pausing.
> Edit this would put the time at about the same as before, 25 shots at 3 seconds. end edit.
> ...


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## pablo (Jul 17, 2014)

Sorry to resurrect a slightly older thread, but I have had issues too, with timelapse & shutter synching.

I've been doing timelapse for a few years, I used to use my regular bodies, but realised quite quickly that this would kill the shutter a lot earlier than normal use, so why trash a lightly used 7d or T3i, when I could pick up a camera with perfectly adequate resolution that is otherwise 'obselete' for next to nothing and trash that instead.

So, I bought a 10d.

Don't buy a 10d for timelapse. Tricky to find uwa or even wa lenses at a modest price as there is no ef-s mount.
Also the cameras buffer is slow, and is packed solid after half a dozen shots, and that was with a 2gb Sandisk Extreme iii, which is close to, if nothe best performing card for the 10d. As the camera I bought was mint condition, I reckon the counter hadn't been reset and it had just over 4'000 clicks on it. I felt kinda bad about sentancing such a nice camera to the photographic equivalent of Stick Car racing, so I'm actually glad it wasn't that suited anyway.

My girlfriend wants to learn photography, so she now has a near mint 10d to learn on.

Anyway, I digress, so I got a 20d.

On paper, ideal. Much better depth and buffer, and plays nice with bigger and faster cards (the 10d was crippled by its internal buffer, thus the 20d can make much more productive use of faster cards, this time a 4gb 30mb/s Extreme iii)

So i've now done a few tests and find a new, frustrating and odd issue...

I can't get the cam to synch with the remote (far eastern clone) at anything less than 4s intervals.

A bugger, as it worked fine with my 7d...

Here are my settings...

ISO 100 (usually)

Shutter .8s (in the past this was my ideal, just before NR darkframe, and is close to 180 rule at 2s i tervals)

I have tried at a faster shutter, to no avail.

Lenses: Samyang 35mm f1.4 (no chip) Lensbaby composer (no chip)

Shooting jpeg, single frame advance


I just cannot get the camera / remote combo to give me anything quicker than 15 fpm.

I could work with this, but for the 180 effect on exposure duration, 2s in daylight just melts people into a grey blur..
if I go faster, then the motion just isn't as fluid as I would wish.

The point is that I should be able to, and that the remote (which plays nice with my 7d) doesn't work properly with the 20d.

I may have to try a canon genuine timer instead....


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## Valvebounce (Jul 18, 2014)

Hi Pablo. 
Just out of interest which far eastern clone is it you are using? Mine is a Phottix Nikos wired timer remote. I would like to find someone with a genuine Canon timer remote I could borrow, or someone with 20D and a genuine Canon timer remote willing to spend 30 minutes to confirm that the genuine remote is not suffering the same limitations. 
I was hoping ML or DSLR Controller would work with 20D as both of those support what we are trying to achieve but no luck there either. :'(

Cheers Graham. 



pablo said:


> Sorry to resurrect a slightly older thread, but I have had issues too, with timelapse & shutter synching.
> 
> I've been doing timelapse for a few years, I used to use my regular bodies, but realised quite quickly that this would kill the shutter a lot earlier than normal use, so why trash a lightly used 7d or T3i, when I could pick up a camera with perfectly adequate resolution that is otherwise 'obselete' for next to nothing and trash that instead.
> 
> ...


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## pablo (Jul 25, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Pablo.
> Just out of interest which far eastern clone is it you are using? Mine is a Phottix Nikos wired timer remote. I would like to find someone with a genuine Canon timer remote I could borrow, or someone with 20D and a genuine Canon timer remote willing to spend 30 minutes to confirm that the genuine remote is not suffering the same limitations.
> I was hoping ML or DSLR Controller would work with 20D as both of those support what we are trying to achieve but no luck there either. :'(
> 
> Cheers Graham.



Hi Graham

My timer isn't branded but has model number eza-c3, Racking my brains I think it may have been called 'shoot'

Anyway, I found a solution to my problem at least.

By keeping the cam in m mode, but turning the shutter to bulb, I can now get 1s exposures at 2s intervals, obviously with long exposure nr (darkframe) switched off in custom functions.

Hope this may be of some use to you.

Pablo


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## Valvebounce (Jul 25, 2014)

Hi Pablo. 
I was in full manual, I'm a bit confused by this statement "By keeping the cam in m mode, but turning the shutter to bulb" did you mean set the remote to bulb? I will try that although I'm looking for short shutter times, 1/500th or thereabouts, I'm not sure bulb will cope with that!

Cheers Graham


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## pablo (Jul 25, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Pablo.
> I was in full manual, I'm a bit confused by this statement "By keeping the cam in m mode, but turning the shutter to bulb" did you mean set the remote to bulb? I will try that although I'm looking for short shutter times, 1/500th or thereabouts, I'm not sure bulb will cope with that!
> 
> Cheers Graham



Hi, 

No I mean set the cameras shutter to bulb, effectively ceding the exposure duration control to the intervalometer, I think the problem comes in as a conflict between the cameras electronic timer and the pulses from the remote...

when I set the shutter speed on the camera, whether it was 1/500th or 1/s the remote and camera would only work sell together at intervals longer than 4s..

When the only pulses come from the remote (by setting exposure duration at 1s say) the operation is fine.

For my application of timelapse this is fine. I don't kbow how you would achieve fast shutters with these cheapie timers.... sorry


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