# Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 11, 2012)

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<strong>Cinema EOS Grows


</strong>I received some info that 2 new cameras would be talked about at NAB next week in Las Vegas. The names C100 and C500 were mentioned.</p>
<p>One of the cameras being true 4K.</p>
<p><strong>EOSRAW


</strong>Another rumour to appear on other sites and in my inbox is the development of EOSRAW. Apparently it’s recordable to CF cards and is capable of 12bit at 4K.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.eoshd.com/content/7825/canon-to-unveil-eosraw-recording-format-new-high-end-camera-specs" target="_blank">Read more at EOSHD</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r </strong></p>
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## wickidwombat (Apr 11, 2012)

makes more sense to me I'm guessing the C500 is cheaper than the C300
I still dont really get the purpose of the cinema DSLR, producing these EF mount dedicated video cameras
designed to suit video ergonomically makes alot more sense, sure have vid on still cameras for when its needed but surely video dedicated guys must prefer to use something with a form factor designed more around their needs?


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## HurtinMinorKey (Apr 11, 2012)

This is good news. Ill be very happy indeed. Hopefully the prices are proportional to the names:

(c100=1/3*c300 and c500=5/3*c300)


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## gene_can_sing (Apr 11, 2012)

I only do video, and I DON'T want the traditional Camcorder / Video style body. Those are super dated and horrible to use compared to the DSLR form factor which is GREAT.

Think of it this way, would you want to shoot stills with a lunch box style body? NO. Video and photo are no different in how you hold the camera. The DSLR form factor allows you to hand hold a camera nicely. The Lunch Box / Camcorder format requires a rig at all times. SUCKS and is super dated.

That is why the C-300 has a more DSLR form factor, because it's where everything is going.


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## wickidwombat (Apr 11, 2012)

gene_can_sing said:


> I only do video, and I DON'T want the traditional Camcorder / Video style body. Those are super dated and horrible to use compared to the DSLR form factor which is GREAT.
> 
> Think of it this way, would you want to shoot stills with a lunch box style body? NO. Video and photo are no different in how you hold the camera. The DSLR form factor allows you to hand hold a camera nicely. The Lunch Box / Camcorder format requires a rig at all times. SUCKS and is super dated.
> 
> That is why the C-300 has a more DSLR form factor, because it's where everything is going.



ah ok thats what i was trying to figure out, I dont do video but to me the DSLR seem a bit clunkt hence why all these aftermarket steady cam rigs etc have been invented to hold the camera and use it in a more video style

though I wasnt refering the the handy cam / camcorder style i was more refering the the layout on proper cinema cameras


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## gene_can_sing (Apr 11, 2012)

Oh Yes, and this is good news. I hope my camera is finally going to come. I have a good chunk of money for it that is just waiting.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 11, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> This is good news. Ill be very happy indeed. Hopefully the prices are proportional to the names:
> 
> (c100=1/3*c300 and c500=5/3*c300)


 
With Canon, the lower model numbers have higher prices. A C100 might be3/1 or 3 X the price of a C300 while a C500 is 3/5 the price.


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## JR (Apr 11, 2012)

So are we saying the C100 or C500 might have the form factor of a DSLR? Because they will be called C100 and C500, I assume they are certainly aimed at the still market in any shape or form. This is starting to feel like Canon is betting a lot on the Video pro segment - maybe even more then on the Photo Pro segment!


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## Christian_Stella (Apr 11, 2012)

The only thing perplexing about this is how they could make a lower end c300? What could they take out that would give it any chance of competing in the market? 5d3 resolved detail with XLR inputs?


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## AG (Apr 11, 2012)

Heres hoping that the C100 is the DSLR hybrid (hmmm 1D body.... C100.... could work?)

Then the C500 could be this monster $35k 4K ARRI/Red challenger we heard about yesterday.

As for camera rigs, the main reason they use them is due to centre of gravity/balance when filming hand held. Its much easier to be balanced when the camera is closer to your body. Hence the reason why shoulder mount rigs try to do just that. 

A lot of modern cameras are starting to take the design concepts of the DSLR and use them in their new video camera designs.
On saying that though, look at the new FS700 from Sony, its kept the same crap box shape and form factor of the FS100 (don't even get me started on the button lay out).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 11, 2012)

With Canon, lower numbered models are the high end ones. A C100 would likely be a flagship model while a C500 a low end model. Perhaps a 5D MK III sensor with high end body fast frame rates and 4K??


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## HurtinMinorKey (Apr 11, 2012)

Christian_Stella said:


> The only thing perplexing about this is how they could make a lower end c300? What could they take out that would give it any chance of competing in the market? 5d3 resolved detail with XLR inputs?



Exactly. An un-nerfted 5dmkiii could do wonders. It still wont have the DR of the c300, but it could certainly place itself on-top of all the existing dslr's out there. 

Remember, the c300's biggest selling point is it's ease of use, and the IQ right out of the camera.


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## AG (Apr 11, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> With Canon, lower numbered models are the high end ones. A C100 would likely be a flagship model while a C500 a low end model. Perhaps a 5D MK III sensor with high end body fast frame rates and 4K??



True for Photography but could it be possible for them to change that with the Cinema EOS segment?

I have a feeling the low end will be a C300 but with limited outputs (no HD:SDI for example), basically what you find on the side of the 1D series currently. It will have the same 1080p C300 sensor but crammed into a 1D style body, with EF mount only.


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## JR (Apr 11, 2012)

In any case it will be interesting to see how this pan out over the next few weeks once the official announcement is done...


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## jpmitch83 (Apr 11, 2012)

gene_can_sing said:


> I only do video, and I DON'T want the traditional Camcorder / Video style body. Those are super dated and horrible to use compared to the DSLR form factor which is GREAT.
> 
> Think of it this way, would you want to shoot stills with a lunch box style body? NO. Video and photo are no different in how you hold the camera. The DSLR form factor allows you to hand hold a camera nicely. The Lunch Box / Camcorder format requires a rig at all times. SUCKS and is super dated.
> 
> That is why the C-300 has a more DSLR form factor, because it's where everything is going.



I don't limit myself to one form factor. It depends on the job. I can understand if your doing small production and held type things, not if your doing studio work or location shoots with elaborate lighting schemes the form factor of the camera is a nonissue since I am going to have a full rig on it anyway. The weight of the lenses I used this morning probably average 4.5 pounds (2kg) which throws the form factor of the MkIIIs we were shooting without the window. Not to mention the dollies, cranes, and jibs we threw them on for a few of the moving shots. So yes if all you do is guerilla style then I can understand you not wanting a traditional camcorder body. The form factor is null for a lot of the pro's out there because of what we are doing with these new cameras. Also if I am shooting ENG i would want a larger body camera shooting a press conference, concert, or theater show, something along those lines would get old real quick and because the SLRs will never go beyond that 29 minute limit because tax issues in Europe that's not going to change. Not too mention after shooting for an hour or two and your the wide static on something you get board and throw into auto and grab a chair.


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## gene_can_sing (Apr 11, 2012)

That's the beauty of the DSLR is that it's as small as you want or you can rig it up to make it huge.

I've used the FS-100 and the AF-101 and it's pretty much a rig only type deal. I've also worked on shoots where the Epic was being used and that's obviously a tripod only camera.

For myself, I shoot a lot with different rigs, but I also like the handheld look a lot; and for that, nothing beats a DSLR.

Now I can understand if you are using some Cooke PL primes, you need a heavy camera to balance out the lenses. But if you have the budget for those type of lenses, you're probably not going to be shooting on a DSLR, or even an FS-100. you're probably going to be on REDs or Alexas (which are for very specific uses) 

I think for general, all around usage on a camera that you can buy (not the Epic or the Alexa, at least for my budget), the DSLR format is much better than the traditional video format.

Personally, I like the DSLR format much better than the FS-100 which I feel has weak ergonomics.


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## AG (Apr 11, 2012)

gene_can_sing said:


> That's the beauty of the DSLR is that it's as small as you want or you can rig it up to make it huge.
> 
> I've used the FS-100 and the AF-101 and it's pretty much a rig only type deal. I've also worked on shoots where the Epic was being used and that's obviously a tripod only camera.
> 
> ...



+1 Agreed.


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## cayenne (Apr 11, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Christian_Stella said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing perplexing about this is how they could make a lower end c300? What could they take out that would give it any chance of competing in the market? 5d3 resolved detail with XLR inputs?
> ...



If this was the case...how much would you think an "un-nerfted" 5Dmkiii cost do you think? When would you think it would make it to market?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 11, 2012)

Christian_Stella said:


> The only thing perplexing about this is how they could make a lower end c300? What could they take out that would give it any chance of competing in the market? 5d3 resolved detail with XLR inputs?



+1

that would seem to just be a way to really insure the 5D3 stays crippled and the 5D4 becomes a non-starter all while accomplishing not much with their C500, or so it would seem


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## tjc320 (Apr 11, 2012)

gene_can_sing said:


> I only do video, and I DON'T want the traditional Camcorder / Video style body. Those are super dated and horrible to use compared to the DSLR form factor which is GREAT.
> 
> Think of it this way, would you want to shoot stills with a lunch box style body? NO. Video and photo are no different in how you hold the camera. The DSLR form factor allows you to hand hold a camera nicely. The Lunch Box / Camcorder format requires a rig at all times. SUCKS and is super dated.
> 
> That is why the C-300 has a more DSLR form factor, because it's where everything is going.



Let me know when you get good footage from using a DSLR handheld. You need a rig no matter what, especially with a DSLR. Video and photo are both different with how you hold a camera, that is, unless you shoot video with your eye against the LCD or photos using the LCD rather than the viewfinder. 

What pros want is features and it's simply not possible to fit all the needed features on a DSLR (they hardly fit on the C300)

From the day the Cinema DSLR was announced I have been saying that the DSLR form factor should be tossed out the window. I'm guessing the DLSR form factor works perfect for you so maybe the 5DMIII would be a good purchase over a C-line camera.


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## heron88 (Apr 11, 2012)

I just want to see EOSRAW come to fruition. Codec is the main thing separating Canon from the higher end companies. Hopefully, the same technology will also trickle down into next generation DSLRs. (or even be available as a firmware update for my 7d ;D) I'm allowed to dream aren't I?


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## crjiro (Apr 11, 2012)

i'm interested in what will be the lower-priced C500 of the two. But, we can assume the feature-set will be less then what is on the C300. This will not bode well against the FS700 but maybe more against the FS100. Look forward to the release and details.


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## Ed_5D (Apr 11, 2012)

C100!! Finally Canon Raw for video!! sounds like good news... as far as it does at least 120fps @ 4K... as I posted before, a modern cinema camera without high frame rates at full quality is crippled. Even more if it's a $35.000 camera.
Nobody I know was even slightly impressed by the C300... to expensive and lacking in features, and now that the Sony FS-700 is coming it looks like the C300 should be priced at around $6000 to be a successful camera.


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## transpo1 (Apr 11, 2012)

It will be interesting to see what they come out with. Canon needs to take a lesson from Apple and be willing to cannibalize themselves with a lower-end 4k or 2k video camera. Anything they come out with for below 10,000 is going to eat into their c300 sales but I hope they take the plunge. It would be nice to see them take the lead from Sony in this area- they have a tremendous following from all of their DSLRs, now they just have to capitalize on that with a meaningful video offering.


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## gene_can_sing (Apr 11, 2012)

tjc320 said:


> gene_can_sing said:
> 
> 
> > I only do video, and I DON'T want the traditional Camcorder / Video style body. Those are super dated and horrible to use compared to the DSLR form factor which is GREAT.
> ...



tjc320, the DSLRs are much, much better for handheld shots

Take a look at this video I directed and DP'd recently. About 70% of it was shot purely handheld. NO RIGs. Even when using the 100mm L macro, I still shot it handheld with NO RIGs.

http://www.builtbyugene.com/mov_clients/DUEL2_ColorGradeMX_0401a.mov

I shoot a LOT of handheld with no rig (a big part of my aesthetic) and it's MUCH easier on a DSLR. You can view a bunch of it on my url:

www.builtbyUgene.com 

Of course you can't fit all the features of a traditional video into a smaller body (such as ND filters, but I'd rather use a variable ND), but there are also many, many advantages to having a small body, such as good hand held (very important to me) and the stealth factor.

As for what Pros want, I'm not sure how you define "Pro", but I have been working solely in TV for over 10 years as a Director / Designer / DP and what "Pros" want is as varied as what many hobbiest want. There is no set camera that meets the needs of everyone. But I definitely know what I want; and I don't want to go back to a lunch box body because they're much less user friendly.

I obviously don't want things to go too small (like a point and Shoot), but I feel something like the 5D body is a good size. Not too big and not too small. The Sony FS-100 is a DISASTER in terms of interface. It's too big and has too many buttons. You don't need a button for everything, as Sony seems to think. It's much smarter to just consolidate all those buttons into a few and just design a smart interface for it, kind of like what Apple does with the iPhone.


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## Ed_5D (Apr 11, 2012)

transpo1 said:


> It will be interesting to see what they come out with. Canon needs to take a lesson from Apple and be willing to cannibalize themselves with a lower-end 4k or 2k video camera. Anything they come out with for below 10,000 is going to eat into their c300 sales but I hope they take the plunge. It would be nice to see them take the lead from Sony in this area- they have a tremendous following from all of their DSLRs, now they just have to capitalize on that with a meaningful video offering.


C300 sales? I don't know for sure if it's selling good... but I really doubt it.
As far as Apple goes... I'm not sure if it was that good for the professional market... I mean, the Mac Pro workstation line is going to be discontinued because Apple just sells iPads and iPhones right now, leaving us hopeless in windows land.


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## gene_can_sing (Apr 11, 2012)

Ed_5D said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > It will be interesting to see what they come out with. Canon needs to take a lesson from Apple and be willing to cannibalize themselves with a lower-end 4k or 2k video camera. Anything they come out with for below 10,000 is going to eat into their c300 sales but I hope they take the plunge. It would be nice to see them take the lead from Sony in this area- they have a tremendous following from all of their DSLRs, now they just have to capitalize on that with a meaningful video offering.
> ...



The thing is, I'm sure when Sony announced the FS-700 with true 4k and over 300 FPS slow-motion at only $9,000, many of the C-300 backorders were cancelled. In effect, Sony cannibalized themselves in a huge way. The FS-700 is a gigantic step in affordable, high quality, large sensor video.

Canon needs to do the same. The 4K EOS needs to be really, really strong to compete against Sony. The C-300 was very conservative / underspec'd and it's going to get it's A$$ handed to it by Sony. I'm very happy about Canon getting wrecked by Sony, because this is a wake up call to them to start making good products instead of just trying to milk all the video people like they have been.

Competition is good, and Sony's cannibalization of themselves is hopefully a sign of good things to come.

As for Apple, they have gone too consumer and it's hurting their Pro Market. I certainly hope they don't discontinue the towers, otherwise, what am I going to use? I need all the power I can get from a computer and can't do my stuff on a laptop or an iMac.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Apr 11, 2012)

cayenne said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > Christian_Stella said:
> ...


$6000, body only.

Give it the 5d3 censor, dual digi5 processors, in a 1dX body, and we have a 4k DSLR, or a high bit depth 2k camera. 

To use car anthologies:

C DSLR/c500= Mustang Cobra
c300= Porsche 
c100= F1


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## transpo1 (Apr 11, 2012)

gene_can_sing said:


> Ed_5D said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



Definitely. Sony realized they needed to cannibalize their own higher-end cameras to be competitive. The lesson from Apple is that when the iPhone came out, they went with it even though they knew it would eat into their iPod sales- that's progress, innovation, and progress for the consumer. 

You're right- competition is good and I hope Canon can wake up to the challenge in the video area. Their 4K offering needs to be very strong indeed and they can't worry about how it will effect their C300 product.

Guess we'll see next week!


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## unadog (Apr 11, 2012)

I was driving over the weekend and listened to a Canon Cinema talk. 

They rushed the C300 and knew it. But their goal was 4K, and they made sure the front end was 4K, along with the lenses. The back end wasn't ready, so they dropped down to 8 bit, etc on the output. 

Sounds like with the Raw Codec, they are ready for full 4K? Maybe they will take the C300 in full trade in a C100 or C500? Better than crippling the lower end unit to keep a place for the lower end box (C100 or C500?)

Video is moving way too fast for that conservative game! Let's hope. 

I had a 5D3 and a D800E on preorder (professional still photog.) Think I'm going to sit back for 3 months & see what shakes out. 

Michael


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## unadog (Apr 11, 2012)

[quote author=gene_can_sing]
As for Apple, they have gone too consumer and it's hurting their Pro Market. I certainly hope they don't discontinue the towers, otherwise, what am I going to use? I need all the power I can get from a computer and can't do my stuff on a laptop or an iMac.
[/quote]

Creative Cow has a workflow article about processing with Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on an HP Windows box. 

He is a lifetime Mac guy, but moving to the Adobe metadata workflow with no transcoding. 

I am a photographer who has done digital imaging since 1991 on all kinds of boxes - Dec Alpha workstations, Sun, IBM mainframe, Oracle databases, etc. Lots of different types of boxes out there that use the same i7 Intel hardware, but are 33% of the cost of a Mac, spec for spec. You'll do fine!

Good luck. 

Michael


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 11, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Give it the 5d3 censor, dual digi5 processors, in a 1dX body, and we have a 4k DSLR, or a high bit depth 2k camera.
> 
> To use car anthologies:



why in a bulky 1DX body?


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## HurtinMinorKey (Apr 11, 2012)

You need the room for the processors and to allow for heat dissipation. Thinks going to have to crank pretty bad.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 11, 2012)

AG said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > With Canon, lower numbered models are the high end ones. A C100 would likely be a flagship model while a C500 a low end model. Perhaps a 5D MK III sensor with high end body fast frame rates and 4K??
> ...


 
You have a point, professional cam corders seem to have higher numbers with higher prices, but its not consistent.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/professional_camcorders


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## AG (Apr 12, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> AG said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Looks like i was close...

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5590.msg106922#msg106922


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