# What’s next for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 30, 2020)

> There has obviously been more talk about how quickly the Canon EOS R6 and Canon EOS R5 overheat when recording video, especially when shooting 8K or 4K60p (along with other framerates). The second issue a lot of videographers have is how long the cameras need to cool down once they reach an overheating threshold.
> So is Canon going to do anything about it?
> I think so, and I’ve been talking to a few sources and reading between the lines a bit. Canon released its first statement about the heat concerns back on July 16 and has been relatively silent since.
> I have been told that Canon is actively working on solutions to increase record times and reduce cooldown times. What those solutions are is...



Continue reading...


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## Besisika (Jul 30, 2020)

I am not sure if I want it now and ship back when a solution requires for it, or to wait another 4 months. Dilemma.


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## Mark3794 (Jul 30, 2020)

Or they can go the sony way by changing this line in the firmware:

#DEFINE shutdown_temp 85
into
#DEFINE shutdown_temp 105

Jokes aside this is the way sony addressed overheating complaints in the past:

"One of the major improvement has been seen on the A6300. With the new firmware it takes more than double the time before it overheats in comparison to the older firmware."

"Sony has now fixed the problem with firmware version 1.01 for the Sony Alpha A9. In the change log it simply says 'This utility updates the camera firmware to version 1.01 and improves the overheating warning functionality."


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## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

The firmware fix: Disable the video features. Give those forum posters what they always say they want


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## BeenThere (Jul 30, 2020)

Not a big deal for me as I am primarily a stills photographer. I will enjoy it for 4 months and deal with a recall if/when it happens.


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## BeenThere (Jul 30, 2020)

Besisika said:


> I am not sure if I want it now and ship back when a solution requires for it, or to wait another 4 months. Dilemma.


Not much choice if you did not get in the first delivery.


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## Viggo (Jul 30, 2020)

At least this time I’m not sitting with the camera in hand when it’s recalled, I’m looking at you 1d mkIII


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## Go Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

There was a test in youtube that shows A7s3 overheating faster than R5!  Now this is only fun to shut up Sony boys. I am getting my R5 tomorrow so I will be able to test it and to see if overheating is a big issue. However if Gerald Undone is correct, my problems are solved with the Atomos. At least for 4k60..for 4k120 no but I guess I wont make 17 minutes of slow motion in 1 day....Canon could somehow decrease a bit the bitrate without losing quality and try to increase record times...Or finding some firmware update to improve it. If they could manage to change record times to 1 hour 4kHQ and 30+ minutes 4k120 that would help a lot!

Another thing they could do is to find a way to release the possibility of recording 4k20fps externally.

Other options the adapter to attach between camera and lens would be well received if it can manage to cool down a lot faster the camera. But....in that solution Canon should offer the adapter or price it in a really low price because we would need 2 adapters..rf to rf and rf to ef.

I hope they can improve in a firmware update, I am expecting this camera for 3 years and now that I am going to have it, I dont want to let it go not even for 1 week!!


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## landon (Jul 30, 2020)

They can take their time. 
LOL. It's $6,800 in Aus. Give me more time to save up.


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## josephandrews222 (Jul 30, 2020)

...something doesn't seem right about this entire scenario--surely Canon knew about the heat issues prior to the product's release, right?


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## CDR (Jul 30, 2020)

Honestly, if a hardware fix means a better solution for all I hope Canon does this to keep its brand image intact, as by not doing this there may be a serious backlash! But before anybody crows about Sony, did Sony ever do anything when the issue was widely flagged on their older models????


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## TominNJ (Jul 30, 2020)

the conversations going on in Canon engineering must be interesting.


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## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

If any video shooters are disappointed in the camera, I'd be happy to take it off your hands for $2,000. Might go as high as $2,500.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 30, 2020)

I was too late in the preorder queue and was also told today to expect the shipment in late October (in Australia). It's three months not four, but still a surprisingly long delay.


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 30, 2020)

Anyone know if the C500 is any good as a stills camera 


As for what's next, not sure, what else can they add?


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## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

Looks like there won't be any holiday season discounts on the R5. Maybe next year.


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## HikeBike (Jul 30, 2020)

Oof. I wonder how fast the R6 sold out, and what that delay looks like.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 30, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> the conversations going on in Canon engineering must be interesting.



They must be very heated conversations.


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## landon (Jul 30, 2020)

Take the time to get it right. 
I want to see the c100 and/or c200 RF cinema line first, so I can decide between the R5 or R6 as a B cam.


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 30, 2020)

I do feel this topic is kind of prodding my anxiety, I've been tweeting my dealer and said, for Gods sake, just let me know if I've made the cut......


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## Josh Leavitt (Jul 30, 2020)

It's probably far too late for this, but the best solution for long high bit-rate record times is a dedicated heat sink. I think Canon might be better served in the long run by bringing two variants to market. Keep the weather sealed R5 and R6 as they are now with their modest recording times and market those to stills photographers. And then release video modified versions (RV5 and RV6 if you will) with a redesigned back to accommodate a vented heat sink (and fan possibly). The rear of the camera would probably look like the monstrously ugly Fuji GFX-50S, but it would certainly take care of the overheating issue.


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## Viggo (Jul 30, 2020)

CDR said:


> Honestly, if a hardware fix means a better solution for all I hope Canon does this to keep its brand image intact, as by not doing this there may be a serious backlash! But before anybody crows about Sony, did Sony ever do anything when the issue was widely flagged on their older models????


YeS, they released a new model.


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## Mark3794 (Jul 30, 2020)

And when the a7sIII starts to ship in september Canon announces the R5C, same specs but with a fan


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## mb66energy (Jul 30, 2020)

I think it was fair that Canon released information about properties of their cameras (shortly) before it was available on the market.
If I look at modern cinema movies I usuallly don't see scenes of more than 30 seconds. Using four EOS R5s there is a good chance not to overheat just at 8k.
And 8k for vloggers who talk one hour? IMO FullHD is more than sufficient for that.
Great to see that Canon wants to do something and will do - they want a 2nd "5D mark ii"-feeling 

Just Alfred Hitchcock would have thrown away the R5 for his masterpieces with these great long scenes or found a solution to cool it down silently ...


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## VICYASA (Jul 30, 2020)

What's next for the r5 and r6? A PRICE DROP! Ok... discuss!


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## Richard Anthony (Jul 30, 2020)

josephandrews222 said:


> ...something doesn't seem right about this entire scenario--surely Canon knew about the heat issues prior to the product's release, right?


A rush job to get it out before Sony's new camera , and they lose custom to them maybe .


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## Diltiazem (Jul 30, 2020)

I doubt that there will be any hardware fix. Canon may release a video-centric version with a fan and other cooling measures (similar to the Astro version of the R). There will be some improvements/lower heat options with firmware for sure.


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## StevenA (Jul 30, 2020)

For me this heating issue is much to do about nothing. It's 45mpx shooting at 12/20fps with IBIS that works with the RF lens IS, DPAFII WITH human AND animal eye focus that looks to work amazing, 120hz hi-rez viewfinder refresh rate, hi-rez touch/flip screen and MORE. In short, the r5's stills abilities are freaking amazing and along the lines of the 1dmiii series, if not better.

Oh, did I mention it'll shoot 4k no crop. OH and did I mention 8k NO CROP with Dual Pixel CMOS AF the whole time?? Something NO OTHER manufacturer has even whispered of doing?

All of this in a body that is half the size of the 1d series and a couple thousand dollars less. I can't figure out why people are upset, I really can't.

Of course it's going to have heating issues. Personally, all this fretting about it is nonsensical. People need to REALIZE what this camera DOES and stop complaining about what this camera CAN'T DO. If it doesn't fit the bill for you, don't buy it, k? It'll leave more bodies on the shelf for the people that appreciate cutting edge tech.


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## miketcool (Jul 30, 2020)

C-Log wasn’t available on release for the EOS 5Dmk4. When it was released it wasn’t a simple firmware upgrade, I had to drop the body off at a CPS location. Canon installed a larger heat sink. I would imagine, that there may be could be some sort of solution along these lines for those who want to shoot mostly video.

I don’t want to sound dismissive, but digital cameras has enabled filmmakers to become lazy. People will roll on footage for hours only to edit it down for a few minutes. Nature, wildlife, and sports filming have benefited from this tremendously, so I can see why they would need a better solution (use a proper cinema camera). If you’re a YouTuber who shoots for content, learn to be more efficiently. Shoot the first or second take. Quit throwing away 99% of what you shoot.


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## BeenThere (Jul 30, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> What's next for the r5 and r6? A PRICE DROP! Ok... discuss!


Perhaps a price increase if you can pry one from the hands of the lucky.


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## TominNJ (Jul 30, 2020)

Josh Leavitt said:


> It's probably far too late for this, but the best solution for long high bit-rate record times is a dedicated heat sink. I think Canon might be better served in the long run by bringing two variants to market. Keep the weather sealed R5 and R6 as they are now with their modest recording times and market those to stills photographers. And then release video modified versions (RV5 and RV6 if you will) with a redesigned back to accommodate a vented heat sink (and fan possibly). The rear of the camera would probably look like the monstrously ugly Fuji GFX-50S, but it would certainly take care of the overheating issue.



there might already be a heat sink in it. Does the body have room for one? How do they ventilate the body without allowing dirt and moisture to get in? A fan could introduce vibration.

its hard to imagine a fix that doesn’t involve a thicker body.


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## DBounce (Jul 30, 2020)

I already ordered and my R5 will be arriving later today. I'm not worried, I know Canon will do whatever is required to make things right. Excellent service is one thing Canon are well known for and this will be no different. Too bad Sony will not be doing likewise on the A7S3. That folks is the difference.


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## usern4cr (Jul 30, 2020)

OMG - First we have a storm of *"overheating"* chatter, and now we're going to have a new storm of *"recall"* chatter!


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## DBounce (Jul 30, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> there might already be a heat sink in it. Does the body have room for one? How do they ventilate the body without allowing dirt and moisture to get in? A fan could introduce vibration.
> 
> its hard to imagine a fix that doesn’t involve a thicker body.


The heatsink can be weather sealed... in fact it can be water tight. The Sigma fp is designed to use the back middle of the camera as a heatsink. That body is fully weather sealed and has zero overheating issues. I can literally run the fp all day long.


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## DBounce (Jul 30, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> OMG - First we have a storm of *"overheating"* chatter, and now we're going to have a new storm of *"recall"* chatter!


I'm fine with a recall, and Canon will handle it the right way. What I'm not fine with is companies that will put out a product with a defect, and the ignore the issue. And even after the problem is acknowledged only offer a firmware update that merely hide the problem by removing the warning... I'm looking at you Sony.


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## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

A few years back when convergence was all the rage, I posted that I felt that it would ultimately lead to divergence. I think that may be happening.

In the early years it was easy to add a few video features to stills cameras. As the years went by, the video features became more sophisticated. But, at some point the two uses get highly specialized and there are inevitable conflicts between the two. One has to wonder if it is practical and affordable to have a highly specialized and capable video camera *and* a highly specialized and capable stills camera in the same body.

The R5 looks like a great body for stills shooters who want to occasional shoot a bit of video. But, it appears to have a few issues for those who want to shoot long-form ultra high resolution video. The easy answer for us stills shooters is to just tell these video folks it's not the tool for them. But, I'm not sure that's totally fair. Some of the concerns do seem legitimate, especially since Canon really marketed the heck out of the video features.

I'm not one of those people who is opposed to video in cameras or who whine "I don't want to pay for video in my camera!" But, I do wonder just what hardware modifications might be necessary to resolve this issue and how that might affect the cost, weight, performance and sealing of the camera. Maybe it is time to consider a separate R5 Cinema version that is optimized for video, instead of the one-size fits all body.


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## Aaron D (Jul 30, 2020)

StevenA said:


> People need to REALIZE what this camera DOES and stop complaining about what this camera CAN'T DO.



I second that! If you're making movies and gotta rely on a camera--buy a movie camera! Or three of these if you need tiny.

Do people buy a screwdriver and complain that it's shit for driving nails?


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## NorskHest (Jul 30, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> There was a test in youtube that shows A7s3 overheating faster than R5!  Now this is only fun to shut up Sony boys. I am getting my R5 tomorrow so I will be able to test it and to see if overheating is a big issue. However if Gerald Undone is correct, my problems are solved with the Atomos. At least for 4k60..for 4k120 no but I guess I wont make 17 minutes of slow motion in 1 day....Canon could somehow decrease a bit the bitrate without losing quality and try to increase record times...Or finding some firmware update to improve it. If they could manage to change record times to 1 hour 4kHQ and 30+ minutes 4k120 that would help a lot!
> 
> Another thing they could do is to find a way to release the possibility of recording 4k20fps externally.
> 
> ...


The new h265 codec is also part of this problem. That codec creates lots of heat, yes there is overheating in 8k but that h265 shit will be the death of cameras and computers. Give the camera motion jpeg and a mp4 h264 and life will be well. Photo shooters should also be concerned with photo battery’s life. It’s not looking good. I hope they get this all sorted. I want canon to succeed and crush it.


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## JN- (Jul 30, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> there might already be a heat sink in it. Does the body have room for one? How do they ventilate the body without allowing dirt and moisture to get in? A fan could introduce vibration.
> 
> its hard to imagine a fix that doesn’t involve a thicker body.


This teardown apparently shows minimalist heatsink. https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topi...discussion-all-in-one-place/page/16/#comments


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## eat-sleep-code (Jul 30, 2020)

I honestly don't know if the overheating would ever effect me. I am primarily a still shooter that also shoots some occasional video when traveling, etc. Most of my clips don't exceed 8 to 10 minutes. But, I guess it would be nice to know that longer clips were a possibility if I needed them.

I am interested to see what Canon might bring to the table to see if it will be a hardware fix or a firmware fix.

I will make the change to RF glass at some point, but being stuck home during the pandemic means I don't have an urgent need to upgrade _today. _The iPhone 11 Pro, Canon 5D Mark III, and a GoPro are more than enough to document the four walls of my house.


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## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

Aaron D said:


> Do people buy a screwdriver and complain that it's shit for driving nails?


To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain. 

I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)


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## Jim Corbett (Jul 30, 2020)

What's next?
*R1 - Photo-only pro body with 1dx-like grip, 2xSSD, Animal eye pupil AF @ 16fps 14 bit mechanical, or 20fps @ 13bit e-shutter, nuclear blast proof and 5 million shutter life.*
Stop giving us breadcrumbs and hot potatoes, get real, Canon!!!


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## TominNJ (Jul 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> The heatsink can be weather sealed... in fact it can be water tight. The Sigma fp is designed to use the back middle of the camera as a heatsink. That body is fully weather sealed and has zero overheating issues. I can literally run the fp all day long.



that type of solution would be a redesign of the camera. The board containing the digic X might have to be relocated. The back is taken up by the flip out screen. that might work in a new camera designed from the ground up. As a fix it’s probably not possible especially in a reasonable time frame.


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## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

I am surprised by the number of people talking about adding vents or a heat sink. Do you really think Canon hasn't physically engineered the camera as well as they could to handle heat dissipation? What would vents do for you without active airflow going through them? And adding a fan that's not just an external accessory, but an actually integrated component, just gives the people who complain about video on stills bodies a valid talking point.

If a hardware fix is coming, I would not be shocked if the cause of overheating is partially related to Canon not being able to manufacture or source the quality of components they had planned due to the pandemic. And the 'fix' simply being switching a part (simply used very lightly here, of course that is significant effort for product integration)

I attribute the reduction in CIPA battery numbers despite the increase in capacity to the IBIS. But I'm not even certain if CIPA testing requires IS to be engaged. If it isn't, it may well be that the R6 and R5 don't get all the new hardware with the greatly improved efficiency we saw in the 90D and 1DX III (where CIPA numbers went way up compared to the predecessors). It seems the 90D production isn't going too well at the moment. At least I have a friend who just bought one and said he had real trouble finding a store that had it in stock (very anecdotal, so don't make to much of it).

It all seems unlikely to me though. If they do something in software, it's probably offering more line skipped video options and giving you a way to accept toasting your hardware, like on the Sony.

I feel like all this speculation and acting as if the cameras had an actual problem isn't helping anyone really. We have now heard what the camera isn't capable of. But the reviews and testing on what it can do are very sparse so far. What is out there seems to indicate that especially the R5 is a remarkable leap in technology and should make buyers very happy. I am torn between it and the R6, an since stock seems to be an issue, have no problem with waiting a little longer to see how it all pans out.


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## LSXPhotog (Jul 30, 2020)

I am pretty confident that if the second batch isn't shipping until November, the small amount they sent out now will be recalled. There are COUNTLESS stories that camera stores only received between 20-30% of their order request. That doesn't sound like just a COVID delay. It sounds like a stop in production. I think they are releasing a small number of cameras to reduce the damage and potential recall. I'm not too concerned, but it does not look great for Canon right now...if they can get this camera to record reliably 4K60 and 4K120....this will be a home run for all parties.

As a photographer, it's already a home run. So I just don't care. LOL


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Jul 30, 2020)

Even if a firmware update allows a higher heat threshold before shutting off, I'm not turning it on (and hopefully it's an option users can toggle). Not worth it to reduce the life of the electronics. The normal 4k mode out of the R5 looks pretty dang good, and I can work around the other limitations, including for hour-long wedding ceremonies.

Only thing I want on the R5 is 1080p 120fps, unlimited record time, and dual slot video recording. Other than that they can leave it alone, and simply make an RF C100 for everybody that does video and is complaining.

It's also sort of sad that video has hijacked the R5 dialogue. The first "professional" mirrorless camera from Canon and for all purposes it's what every Canon photographer has dreamed of. This is coming from an 80%video/20% photo guy, too.


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## DBounce (Jul 30, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> that type of solution would be a redesign of the camera. The board containing the digic X might have to be relocated. The back is taken up by the flip out screen. that might work in a new camera designed from the ground up. As a fix it’s probably not possible especially in a reasonable time frame.


Honestly, I do not know what Canon has in mind, but I'm certain they had this fix sitting around as a plan B. Perhaps it will involve swapping out the back of the body? I know that the EF to RF cooling mount is not a viable solution as it means the camera will essentially be a EF body. That will kill the incentive to buy RF glass. So if a physical change is required, it will likely come in the form of a vented heatsink back underneath the screen... Perhaps an active cooling solution will be required? Honestly, while they are at it I would be 100% ok with them doing something about the battery life also.


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## Sibir Lupus (Jul 30, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Or they can go the sony way by changing this line in the firmware:
> 
> #DEFINE shutdown_temp 85
> into
> ...



So did Sony actually address the issue of heat buildup (better coding, more efficient use of processor, etc), or did they just reduce the overheat protection by raising the threshold? If its the latter, then a higher heat buildup before it shuts down means the internals will wear down faster over time.


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> the conversations going on in Canon engineering must be interesting.



if it’s anything like most of the engineering groups I’ve worked with the conversations are “We told marketing there were thermal limits to these modes why did they publish them as headline features?” And “Great now we have to clean up their mess”


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## vjlex (Jul 30, 2020)

This is starting to remind me of the fiery Galaxy Note 7 fiasco. Debuted, recalled, and discontinued all within 2 months. I couldn't believe something like that could happen... especially not on the 7th iteration of a product. I had been thinking about getting one, but before I could decide, they pulled it. Similarly, my first inclination with this R5 situation is to scoff and say a recall ain't happening. But stranger things have happened.

If there were a recall (which I still doubt), it might be a good opportunity to upgrade that HDMI port to 2.1, and pave the way for 8K RAW to be recorded externally (and thereby mitigate some of those heat issues for people who want to use 8K extensively).

All I hope for at this point is just some clarity about this product that has been shrouded in an unusually thick veil of mystery for months, and _still_ is-- on its own release day.


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## bergstrom (Jul 30, 2020)

best thing is cancel your order and take the wait and see approach.


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## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

josephandrews222 said:


> ...something doesn't seem right about this entire scenario--surely Canon knew about the heat issues prior to the product's release, right?


They thought the 8k gimmick would gloss over the cracks, also they are relying on all their loyalist customers to defend them no matter what problems the product has, also they are aware that many people are trapped behind thousands of dollars of great EF glass already owned. They also thought they had the best looking girl at the dance, but then Sony and the A7sIII walked through door.


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain.
> 
> I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)



Total unforced error. The body shoots 4K full width and 4K from a 5.1K crop without overheating. Quality better than an A7R4 (422 10 bit) and better AF than a Z7*.

And yet there are YT stars with literally 1M+ followers on twitter saying the body is only good for short bursts of video.

Heads should be rolling at Canon—and not their engineering group.

(I am not sure I can deal with my 60D until November—maybe I need to pick up a used R. My 5D4 is already heading to KEH)

*both bin/skip their FF modes and have soft 4K in those modes.


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## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

I assume Canon has issued recalls in the past. Anyone know how they dealt with it/would deal with it in the case of the R5?


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## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

I don’t think it will be just firmware - doesn’t quite make sense. If they believe they can fix it with firmware, well then announce that stills people can buy it but you’ll make improvements for video (codecs, bit rates etc) and those will be available later in the year. Stills shooters continue to buy or anyone not worried about the record limits. Download the new firmware when it is out.

if Canon has delayed the 2nd batch to November then that feels like they are withholding stock as they don’t want the additional costs of recall - cuts into their margins a lot...

Also given lead times for manufacturing November indicates they are close to a solution and hence why an announcement is imminent. They then have to either retrofit the existing stock, or manufacture new and then retrofit. Either way, one would assume they will have a solution by end August


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## TomR (Jul 30, 2020)

The reason this camera won't have new stock until November is they need to ship with this new accessory


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## fabao (Jul 30, 2020)

StevenA said:


> For me this heating issue is much to do about nothing. It's 45mpx shooting at 12/20fps with IBIS that works with the RF lens IS, DPAFII WITH human AND animal eye focus that looks to work amazing, 120hz hi-rez viewfinder refresh rate, hi-rez touch/flip screen and MORE. In short, the r5's stills abilities are freaking amazing and along the lines of the 1dmiii series, if not better.
> 
> Oh, did I mention it'll shoot 4k no crop. OH and did I mention 8k NO CROP with Dual Pixel CMOS AF the whole time?? Something NO OTHER manufacturer has even whispered of doing?
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree more. Just the still features alone are worth getting this camera for me: it will stabilize my 28-70, keep my kids and dog eyes in focus, while shooting at 12 (or 20fps) at 45 MP, which will leave a lot of room for cropping. Plus, the video itself is much better than my Panna m43 setup. The autofocus there is just horrible. I just like shooting a couple of seconds clips here and there at 4K/60fps that I slowdown later and throw some music on top. This camera is perfect!


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## StevenA (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain.
> 
> I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)



Perhaps. But I think everyone was smart enough to assume their would be heating issues with the type of technology Canon was touting. In fact, people DID outwardly wonder how they were going to handle the heating issues. Which means we expected it, then got upset when it became a reality.


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## mrproxy (Jul 30, 2020)

From production vise - if they start to think how to upgrade body to deal with heat, then new iteration will be available this time next year an not earlier. Unfortunately R&D takes time, then testing testing testing. Once that done - then you need to set up production process. Run first batch - get it to test, then certify with FCC/CE/etc. Then production + shipment. 
The way how R5 and R6 are built - were already fixed year ago. Some improvements to FW could be done, but in a lot of cases FW capabilities are limited by HW.


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## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> They thought the 8k gimmick would gloss over the cracks, also they are relying on all their loyalist customers to defend them no matter what problems the product has, also they are aware that many people are trapped behind thousands of dollars of great EF glass already owned. They also thought they had the best looking girl at the dance, but then Sony and the A7sIII walked through door.


But the R5 has no problem that needs defending. Some of its capabilities come with limitations. For some of these capabilities, you can find a competitors product, that offers them as well. If the R5's limitations on these regards outweigh it's benefits, just go for the competition. For most capabilities in the R5 (8K, 45 MP 20 FPS, RF glass, ergonomics, up 8 stop IBIS, etc.), that is easier said than done, since very few or no similarly priced competitors offer it currently.

You shouldn't act offended on behalf of these poor souls that are trapped by they multi thousand dollar EF line up, since they are aren't forced to buy and R5 and customers of that camera are getting an amazing camera for all we know currently anyway.


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## mangobutter (Jul 30, 2020)

Maybe Canon will disable or limit some of the computational features going on during photo and/or video record. From what I understand the new bodies get hot when doing photos alone as the processors are really working overtime doing all the real time scene/face/eye recognition. Apparently the algorithm was done to search for and/or track many objects besides just human faces/eyes/animal faces/animal eyes. 

If it's doing all this in video too, it could be a good thing to have the option at least to use a more basic form of tracking. Maybe a lowered bit rate too, or at least the option to. 

Only so much you can do in a rubberized bodied camera.

I would think a good solution (if you can't implement a cooling fan/vents) would be to implement the heat sink into the tripod screw and have an optional finned heat sink you screw onto the bottom. Or maybe a hotshoe solution. But what do I know.


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## Danglin52 (Jul 30, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> I rush job to get it out before Sony's new camera , and they lose custom to them maybe .



I think Canon believed they were delivering a well balanced solution for most users. What they underestimated was the vocal band of Youtubers that would be screaming because it didn't deliver high end professional video functionality at $3,900. The same Youtubers that don't have a need for 8k or even HQ 4k. For most hybrid shooters, this camera has a lot of capability in a small package. I like the fact this is a compact solution that can deliver outstanding video and stills, It was never intended to shoot full length movies or hours of Youtube broadcasts. Opens up a lot of capability for those on a budget.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> if it’s anything like most of the engineering groups I’ve worked with the conversations are “We told marketing there were thermal limits to these modes why did they publish them as headline features?” And “Great now we have to clean up their mess”


8k was always a headline that you couldn’t bury. The took a calculated risk and it didn’t pan out the way they thought. Having pre-announced it, they couldn’t even disable it. That would be a more humiliating situation. They hoped they could announce the limits and everyone would be reasonable. Somewhat naive given that the SM influencers care most about the money they make from conflict ”shows” on YT and the like.

Bottom line, everyone knew. Engineering did the best they could with the time and other constraints. Now they’re all having a rethink on their collective decisions.


----------



## TomR (Jul 30, 2020)

mrproxy said:


> From production vise - if they start to think how to upgrade body to deal with heat, then new iteration will be available this time next year an not earlier. Unfortunately R&D takes time, then testing testing testing. Once that done - then you need to set up production process. Run first batch - get it to test, then certify with FCC/CE/etc. Then production + shipment.
> The way how R5 and R6 are built - were already fixed year ago. Some improvements to FW could be done, but in a lot of cases FW capabilities are limited by HW.



If they couldn't find this problem with the last "testing testing testing" what makes us confident they'll get it right next time?


----------



## Avenger 2.0 (Jul 30, 2020)

They should just have released the R5 and advertised it as a still camera. Then leave a hidden option in the custom function menu to enable 8k and raw recording. Everyone would go nuts over it and not even complain it would overheat.


----------



## mariosk1gr (Jul 30, 2020)

What CANON needs to do is simple. They leave the body as it is. They announce a new firmware that will address by 20-30% the recording times and cooldowns by adding lower bitrates and maybe a more efficient codec. The new firmware also provides 8k/4k raw in external recorder. They do a good collaboration with Atomos and introduce Apple Prores Raw in 14/16-bit like Sony did w/o overheating issues! If they want they can add easily 1080p/240 with tham massive processor R5 has inside. So at the end of the day a photographer will have the ultimate tool for stills and the serious videographer with an addition of external recorder a cinema camera that can do almost everything! And that's where I leave it...


----------



## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> They should just have released the R5 and advertised it as a still camera. Then leave a hidden option in the custom function menu to enable 8k and raw recording. Everyone would go nuts over it and not even complain it would overheat.


I feel like the 8k overheating is obvious. It's expected. It's the 4k HQ overheating where people are finding fault. From what I've been seeing though, the 4k LQ doesn't overheat.


----------



## TomR (Jul 30, 2020)

Joules said:


> But the R5 has no problem that needs defending.



Sounds like the execs at canon disagree


----------



## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

TomR said:


> Sounds like the execs at canon disagree


Based on what, rumors?


----------



## bbasiaga (Jul 30, 2020)

Welcome to the internet in 2020, where:
- the R5 is DOA before shipping because it has limitations on features that no other competitor even offers yet
- the R6 is DOA because its only 20megapixels and that's useless for everything (its a little known fact that no images were taken, and certainly not published, before the first 20+MP sensor was invented a few years ago)
- the new Sony a technological powerhouse no one could have dreamed of, and 12mp is adequate for most photographic uses


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> I think Canon believed they were delivering a well balanced solution for most users. What they underestimated was the vocal band of Youtubers that would be screaming because it didn't deliver high end professional video functionality at $3,900. The same Youtubers that don't have a need for 8k or even HQ 4k. For most hybrid shooters, this camera has a lot of capability in a small package. I like the fact this is a compact solution that can deliver outstanding video and stills, It was never intended to shoot full length movies or hours of Youtube broadcasts. Opens up a lot of capability for those on a budget.


Well to be fair they were pre-announcing features which were ahead of the pack when it came to video. They were aiming high... and they‘ve stumbled. The trouble is, even if they fix it with hardware changes by November, the denizens will pounce and say why didn’t Canon withhold it by a few months.

Does make you think about if there will be further refinements even after november

And one wonders if the R1 already has better cooling or whether it will also require design changes.

Guess the announcement in August will be an interesting one. Shame it’s not just firmware. I’d be happy to get it now and wait for the video firmware fixes later....


----------



## mrproxy (Jul 30, 2020)

TomR said:


> If they couldn't find this problem with the last "testing testing testing" what makes us confident they'll get it right next time?


Well in general that is not a problem, because its written in documentation. Its a limitation that people dont like and therefore will not buy product. Its a failed product planning.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Not much choice if you did not get in the first delivery.




With B&H closed today and my grip already on the way, how would I know if I got in on the first shipment?


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 30, 2020)

Well, this is a joyous thread to read lol. 

My R5 arrived a few hours ago and so far the only disappointing thing about it is that the battery comes completely without charge.  Luckily I had an old one from my R I could use to set it up.

Initial thoughts are that it feels great in the hand, didn't overheat once whilst going through every menu and updating the firmware for the RF 24-105 & 70-200 lenses. 

I have only taken a few shots and first impressions are   and it actually seems to be a quieter shutter than the R but it sounds so good on 12 fps. I'm itching to get out and play but I have been dragged away by she who must be obeyed to do boring stuff.

One thing I need to read up on is how to interpret the card menus to set them up to save to both cards, Raw to CFexpress and Heif / JPEG to UHS11. The menus seem to be different to the 7D I had which was quite simple.

All this talk of a recall is depressing as I have never purchased a camera at launch and am unlikely to suffer with overheating as I am an occasional video shooter so unsure of how a recall would work and really don't want to be without it for any length of time but, I suppose if it's going to help longer term then it has to happen.


----------



## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> With B&H closed today and my grip already on the way, how would I know if I got in on the first shipment?


They started shipping yesterday. If you didn't get a shipping email, you weren't in. Mine's getting delivered today from BH and the grip's coming Friday.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 30, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> I rush job to get it out before Sony's new camera , and they lose custom to them maybe .



Highly unlikely. They've been planning this for years.


----------



## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Well, this is a joyous thread to read lol.
> 
> My R5 arrived a few hours ago and so far the only disappointing thing about it is that the battery comes completely without charge.  Luckily I had an old one from my R I could use to set it up.
> 
> ...


Super cool. Mine's coming some point today. Disheartening to hear recalls and stuff when first waking up, but if it perfects the body, why not? My atomos is a nice work around for some of the issues for me, but I'm still super stoked. I don't usually pre-order or jump in the first batch with big purchases like this, but I've been waiting for the R5 for a while now. My 5DII and 5DIV were great when I got them a few months after launch, but the R5, hoping it's better.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> They thought the 8k gimmick would gloss over the cracks, also they are relying on all their loyalist customers to defend them no matter what problems the product has, also they are aware that many people are trapped behind thousands of dollars of great EF glass already owned. They also thought they had the best looking girl at the dance, but then Sony and the A7sIII walked through door.



So as a photogapher who doesn't really do video, why would I be tempted by Sony's newest body? "Loyalist customers" sounds like projection to me.


----------



## TomR (Jul 30, 2020)

Joules said:


> Based on what, rumors?



Based on canonrumors, you know the guys that told you about this cameras specs before anyone?


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> OMG - First we have a storm of *"overheating"* chatter, and now we're going to have a new storm of *"recall"* chatter!




At least we have something interesting to make up conspiracy theories about while we wait for delivery...


----------



## scyrene (Jul 30, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> Welcome to the internet in 2020, where:
> - the R5 is DOA before shipping because it has limitations on features that no other competitor even offers yet
> - the R6 is DOA because its only 20megapixels and that's useless for everything (its a little known fact that no images were taken, and certainly not published, before the first 20+MP sensor was invented a few years ago)
> - the new Sony a technological powerhouse no one could have dreamed of, and 12mp is adequate for most photographic uses



If I could like this more than once I would!


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

mangobutter said:


> Maybe Canon will disable or limit some of the computational features going on during photo and/or video record. From what I understand the new bodies get hot when doing photos alone as the processors are really working overtime doing all the real time scene/face/eye recognition. Apparently the algorithm was done to search for and/or track many objects besides just human faces/eyes/animal faces/animal eyes.
> 
> If it's doing all this in video too, it could be a good thing to have the option at least to use a more basic form of tracking. Maybe a lowered bit rate too, or at least the option to.
> 
> ...



The R gets warm which is fine so long as it keeps producing pictures and the heat isn’t introducing additional noise.... No different from your PC / Mac / Smartphone doing the same when you start to push them. But if they exceed their thermal tolerances which might break some aspect of the hardware then they either throttle back and do things slower or they shut down. The R5 is doing more than the R even when shooting stills, I agree. But I would be surprised if they’ve not designed a body that could cope with that.

The high end video features - well it seems they underestimated the negative reaction. Too few people going, 8K for 20 mins, great.... too many going it’s broke.

Disabling features which put it on par or better than its competitors would be admitting defeat, no? Can’t see a company wanting to do that’s, let alone a Japanese one.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

Krispy said:


> They started shipping yesterday. If you didn't get a shipping email, you weren't in. Mine's getting delivered today from BH and the grip's coming Friday.




I ordered corporate, didn't get an email about anything, and my grip shipped yesterday so I don't know what to think. If I missed the boat I'm going to cancel and wait.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Also, wow, that EOS thread about a heat sink. A heat sink is a device that you throw (sink) waste heat into so that it can be dissipated. The R5 has a huge heat sink—the mag alloy body. It doesn't matter how big the spreader is on the back of the PCB as long as it can can transfer that heat from the processor and sensor to the body as fast as it's generated. Given the 20-30 minute recording time, I'd say that's the sink (body) reaching it's capacity. This sounds very different from, say, a PC that's got inadequate cooling. Not sure about the lack of thermal compound—that picture was tiny—I suppose it could be an issue but only if it's heat transfer that's the problem not heat dissipation. But you don't put cooling fins (like you'd see on a CPU) on a thermal setup like this because fins are used to dissipate not transfer heat.

The problem* here seems to be that the sink (mag alloy) can't effectively dissipate the heat generated once it's full. This is why the R6 overheats faster despite processing half the information as the R5. No mag allow to sink heat to! I feel like folks are looking at this and saying "gosh it's not designed like my PC canon is dumb" without a pinch of thought about what's going on:

- Rate the sensor and processor generates heat. Can be mitigated by firmware (more efficient or less use of hardware) to some degree but there are also just the realities of the TDP of these components.
- Is the heat from the sensor and processor being pulled away quickly enough to prevent them from overheating (stability, eventually hardware damage).
- What do you do with that heat—where does it sink to?
- Once it's been sinked, how do you dissapate heat from the sink. PCs have big ass sinks with hundreds of fins because they're paired with big ass fans to remove the heat from the sink.

Where the problem in that stack lies greatly affects what Canon can do. If the entire thing is working as anticipated, I don't see how you fix* it w/o re-engineering the entire body. 

In a perfect, perfect world there's a defect in a batch of Digics or sensors that's causing them to create more heat than their spec'd TDP. The delay is to fix that mfg problem but wow that's idle speculation for the ages. This is starting to feel an awful lot like "Canon is re-working the 5D4 to add better 4K codecs!" and folks need to get their own expectations in order.

*I am still not 100% convinced there is a "problem" here except for Canon's marketing group which headlined 8K and then said "uhhh well sorta" in conjunction with not putting the bodies in the hands of anyone except explorer.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> Welcome to the internet in 2020, where:
> - the R5 is DOA before shipping because it has limitations on features that no other competitor even offers yet
> - the R6 is DOA because its only 20megapixels and that's useless for everything (its a little known fact that no images were taken, and certainly not published, before the first 20+MP sensor was invented a few years ago)
> - the new Sony a technological powerhouse no one could have dreamed of, and 12mp is adequate for most photographic uses


Welcome to Internet in 2020, where negativity sells clicks and views and common sense should be left behind. Conflict makes money... 

Don’t set up a YT channel - you’re views are too sensible, only a few will watch... like moths most seem to be attracted to the bright lights of the influencers... who just want you to keep watching whatever they preach so it makes them money. To be fair, supply and demand - enough people must like it and the influencers probably make more money in a month then I do in a year


----------



## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

They will squeeze every single dollar from their customer base who are trapped sitting on thousands of dollars of EF glass. Its all about drip feeding its customers. If they give you a camera that doesnt overheat in 2020, what can we give you in 2021-22!


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> The new h265 codec is also part of this problem. That codec creates lots of heat, yes there is overheating in 8k but that h265 shit will be the death of cameras and computers. Give the camera motion jpeg and a mp4 h264 and life will be well. Photo shooters should also be concerned with photo battery’s life. It’s not looking good. I hope they get this all sorted. I want canon to succeed and crush it.




I encode using H265 all the time on my PC and it's no big deal. I don't know why you say it's going to be the death of computers - that doesn't make any sense at all.

It's actually a decent codec if you're looking for decent quality and small file size.


----------



## Danglin52 (Jul 30, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> I rush job to get it out before Sony's new camera , and they lose custom to them maybe .


I do not believe this was a rush job. I do not understand why they are even comparing to the A7sIII - completely different target markets. As Jared Polen said, the R5 "walks all over the Sony for stills" but there is this focus on comparing completely different segments of the market. I think the only mistake Canon made ws the emphasis on 8K. I should have been ...... and btw, we now can capture short segments of 8k".


----------



## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> They will squeeze every single dollar from their customer base who are trapped sitting on thousands of dollars of EF glass. Its all about drip feeding its customers. If they give you a camera that doesnt overheat in 2020, what can we give you in 2021-22!


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

eat-sleep-code said:


> I honestly don't know if the overheating would ever effect me. I am primarily a still shooter that also shoots some occasional video when traveling, etc. Most of my clips don't exceed 8 to 10 minutes. But, I guess it would be nice to know that longer clips were a possibility if I needed them.
> 
> I am interested to see what Canon might bring to the table to see if it will be a hardware fix or a firmware fix.
> 
> I will make the change to RF glass at some point, but being stuck home during the pandemic means I don't have an urgent need to upgrade _today. _The iPhone 11 Pro, Canon 5D Mark III, and a GoPro are more than enough to document the four walls of my house.




My lovely wife and I were just having this discussion. Pretty much the same scenario. I have camera bodies to last until the end of time and plent of EF and EF-S glass to get me through a nuclear winter - this was purely a FUN buy because I love my R so much.

I have obviously missed the first wave of bodies and maybe that's a good thing because I hate recalls. I'm thinking I'll cancel the body and just order the 100-500L instead. It'll serve me well chasing birds around the back yard.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> if it’s anything like most of the engineering groups I’ve worked with the conversations are “We told marketing there were thermal limits to these modes why did they publish them as headline features?” And “Great now we have to clean up their mess”


Meanwhile the conversation in marketing is going like this: "Did it not occur to *anyone* in engineering that customers might want to actually, you know, *use* the video features they put in the camera."


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain.
> 
> I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)




I never saw any 'massive ad campaign, I saw a bunch of influencers grab one item out of a list of leaked specs and drive it into the ground over and over again until somehow it became this unicorn of a perfect feature.


----------



## Danglin52 (Jul 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> I'm fine with a recall, and Canon will handle it the right way. What I'm not fine with is companies that will put out a product with a defect, and the ignore the issue. And even after the problem is acknowledged only offer a firmware update that merely hide the problem by removing the warning... I'm looking at you Sony.


It is not a defect, it was a design decisions. The camera has firmware that both detects, warns and then deals with the situation. It is a defect when they don't know about the issue, ship the product, and then have to create an emergency fix to make it usable beyond spec. None of this is happening, just a lot of noise around people that want more than what was promised. I don't think Canon ever said you should shoot a full length motion picture with this camera. Look at the size, cost, and weight of a camera that could deliver what some people are requesting. I know it is not something that I want.


----------



## jam05 (Jul 30, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Or they can go the sony way by changing this line in the firmware:
> 
> #DEFINE shutdown_temp 85
> into
> ...


Sony also has a *Auto* Pwr OFF *Temp* (HIGH) which allows the camera to continue to operate while in the overheat state, until it completely fails. Being that this is what many Sony operators immediately claim should be the setting when testing their cameras is proof that most know about and or use it.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I encode using H265 all the time on my PC and it's no big deal. I don't know why you say it's going to be the death of computers - that doesn't make any sense at all.
> 
> It's actually a decent codec if you're looking for decent quality and small file size.



Don't worry folks, H266 has already been announced. In 3 years people will complain that VVC/H266 is destroying their computers and why can't we just use H265. Or even better, lets go back to H262. Heck, you could play MPEG-2 DVDs on a potato chip.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 30, 2020)

LSXPhotog said:


> I am pretty confident that if the second batch isn't shipping until November, the small amount they sent out now will be recalled. There are COUNTLESS stories that camera stores only received between 20-30% of their order request.[..]


 
4 R5s received for 30 preorders where I ordered. I wasn’t in the lucky group.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> best thing is cancel your order and take the wait and see approach.




Seeing as how the first wave of shipments sailed without me onboard, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Leave an order outstanding for months? I'd go nuts. Patience is not a character trait I'm familiar with.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Also, wow, that EOS thread about a heat sink. A heat sink is a device that you throw (sink) waste heat into so that it can be dissipated. The R5 has a huge heat sink—the mag alloy body. It doesn't matter how big the spreader is on the back of the PCB as long as it can can transfer that heat from the processor and sensor to the body as fast as it's generated. Given the 20-30 minute recording time, I'd say that's the sink (body) reaching it's capacity. This sounds very different from, say, a PC that's got inadequate cooling. Not sure about the lack of thermal compound—that picture was tiny—I suppose it could be an issue but only if it's heat transfer that's the problem not heat dissipation. But you don't put cooling fins (like you'd see on a CPU) on a thermal setup like this because fins are used to dissipate not transfer heat.
> 
> The problem* here seems to be that the sink (mag alloy) can't effectively dissipate the heat generated once it's full. This is why the R6 overheats faster despite processing half the information as the R5. No mag allow to sink heat to! I feel like folks are looking at this and saying "gosh it's not designed like my PC canon is dumb" without a pinch of thought about what's going on:
> 
> ...


you seems to overlook an elephant in the room: IBIS 
sensor assembly has to stay mobile and light. So the heat either to be first absorbed by magnesium alloy body and then extracted either via lens mount throat, peltier element inbuilt into the back of the camera or Dissipate into the bottom plate..


----------



## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I never saw any 'massive ad campaign, I saw a bunch of influencers grab one item out of a list of leaked specs and drive it into the ground over and over again until somehow it became this unicorn of a perfect feature.


I was referring to Canon's pre-release publicity efforts, which were very heavily weighted to the video features. In fact there was much whining on this very forum about how all the talk was about video specs and nothing about stills.


----------



## jam05 (Jul 30, 2020)

There doesn't need to be a recall. That's stupid. It doesn't have a fan. There are a few options. And not do what Sony did and raise the threshold so that it operates while overheated. Nor use a Auto Pwr OFF Temp (HIGH). In a few weeks there will be third party devices and Canon's own adapter.. I believe this is what the slow down is. I have already called Tilta, and communicated with SmallRig. Tiltas unit will be available mid - late August. I have yet to hear from SmallRig. Myself will order the R cage and design my on small fan attachment and or peltier cooling with USB control similar to that of Tilta unit.


----------



## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> I was referring to Canon's pre-release publicity efforts, which were very heavily weighted to the video features. In fact there was much whining on this very forum about how all the talk was about video specs and nothing about stills.


But we knew about the 12 FPS mechanical, 20 FPS electronic, IBIS, Animal eye AF and dual cards slots very early on. I am still not sure what else these people expected to hear about stills, other than those incredible features. The only thing about video that may explain why people remember it more vividly is that the event where it was covered wasn't that long ago.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> They will squeeze every single dollar from their customer base who are trapped sitting on thousands of dollars of EF glass. Its all about drip feeding its customers. If they give you a camera that doesnt overheat in 2020, what can we give you in 2021-22!



Change the record mate.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I encode using H265 all the time on my PC and it's no big deal. I don't know why you say it's going to be the death of computers - that doesn't make any sense at all.
> 
> It's actually a decent codec if you're looking for decent quality and small file size.


It seems there is a hardware issue with graphics cards and some h265 4.2.2 CODEC implementations. It also seems like you can edit R5 8k on an iPad, so there's that....


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

TomR said:


> If they couldn't find this problem with the last "testing testing testing" what makes us confident they'll get it right next time?




But is there a problem? Depends on who you ask. Personally it would fine with me if the majority of the Youtubers just went away. Problem solved.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Meanwhile the conversation in marketing is going like this: "Did it not occur to *anyone* in engineering that customers might want to actually, you know, *use* the video features they put in the camera."



Of course, and yeah I'm being quite glib here. Regardless of what design goals were set out 4 years ago (45 mp was most likely chosen because they wanted 8K to be a feature) you need to make a call based on the engineering that's happening on the ground. Either:

- The camera was engineered to handle 8K, went to market with that headline feature assuming it would work, and there's a defect to be addressed.
- The camera couldn't hit the 8K goal, but it was marketed as such anyways.

If it's the latter, it was known the first time engineering samples came off the line a year ago and it was decision time back then. We don't really know what happened inside of canon here—maybe engineering thought they could fix it. Maybe marketing got flustered by a leak. Maybe I'm wrong and tomorrow canon says firmware 1.01 will address these problems and we can all go skipping off into the sunset.


----------



## jam05 (Jul 30, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> you seems to overlook an elephant in the room: IBIS
> sensor assembly has to stay mobile and light. So the heat either to be first absorbed by magnesium alloy body and then extracted either via lens mount throat, peltier element inbuilt into the back of the camera or Dissipate into the bottom plate..


That's what I'm going to do as soon as my unit arrives today. Take my measurements and use the Tilta idea. Most likely will go with ARCTIC .5 removeable thermal pad, a low profile cpu cooling heat sink fan assy (DC), can't seem to find the enclosre similar to the one Tilta has though.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> It seems there is a hardware issue with graphics cards and some h265 4.2.2 CODEC implementations. It also seems like you can edit R5 8k on an iPad, so there's that....



Apple invests heavily in accelerating H265, but it'd still be _hilarious_ if an iPad can handle it but premiere on a threadripper can't


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Also, wow, that EOS thread about a heat sink. A heat sink is a device that you throw (sink) waste heat into so that it can be dissipated. The R5 has a huge heat sink—the mag alloy body. It doesn't matter how big the spreader is on the back of the PCB as long as it can can transfer that heat from the processor and sensor to the body as fast as it's generated. Given the 20-30 minute recording time, I'd say that's the sink (body) reaching it's capacity. This sounds very different from, say, a PC that's got inadequate cooling. Not sure about the lack of thermal compound—that picture was tiny—I suppose it could be an issue but only if it's heat transfer that's the problem not heat dissipation. But you don't put cooling fins (like you'd see on a CPU) on a thermal setup like this because fins are used to dissipate not transfer heat.
> 
> The problem* here seems to be that the sink (mag alloy) can't effectively dissipate the heat generated once it's full. This is why the R6 overheats faster despite processing half the information as the R5. No mag allow to sink heat to! I feel like folks are looking at this and saying "gosh it's not designed like my PC canon is dumb" without a pinch of thought about what's going on:
> 
> ...


It there was a manufacturing issue they wouldn’t need to issue the Overheat timings advisory and have a menu feature which you enable to protect against overheating, no?

second there was a YT video showing the Canon and Sony overheating in Florida - the guy had a temp sensor which could read the heat from the bodies as they started to record. Iirc, around 120 to 130 degrees constant, with the Panasonic being lower by about 10 degrees. It may simply be the Sony sensor can handle the heat and the Canon one can’t for the same period. Whether 12MP has a bearing on that I don’t know. Presume the same with the Panasonic (to the Canon) and hence why they designed a fan in theirs. Maybe Sony needed 5 years to design a solution which could dissipate the heat / take the heat better / didn’t generate as much heat. Even with IBIS which apparently causes challenges.

My best guess is either they’re taking design from a 1Dx / R1 body and modifying it for the R5/R6 along with firmware changes, or they’ve had a lightbulb moment. Combined they think they can mitigate it to a point, but as you suggest, a complete fix? Not in this generation. I think 8K isn’t really the issue for them - as in, maybe a 1.5x the time would be good enough. I think most concern comes from the 4K modes shutting off. If they can prolong that in the HQ and 120fps without lowering quality to over an hour and offer a gizmo which can cool it quicker (maybe the lens mount cooler but designed just to cool it, not always active), then that might be enough.

Alas it does mean that stills shooters have to wait...


----------



## TomR (Jul 30, 2020)

mrproxy said:


> Well in general that is not a problem, because its written in documentation. Its a limitation that people dont like and therefore will not buy product. Its a failed product planning.





Bert63 said:


> But is there a problem? Depends on who you ask. Personally it would fine with me if the majority of the Youtubers just went away. Problem solved.



well, if canon recalls this camera (big if i know) then i think its Canon that thinks its a problem


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Apple invests heavily in accelerating H265, but it'd still be _hilarious_ if an iPad can handle it but premiere on a threadripper can't


Threadripper doesn’t have x.265 decode/encode, nor do arm cpu. Both are handled by GPUs. iPad gpu can handle 4:2:2 whereas current pc gpus cannot. Not sure which generation GPU it needs. Apparently 4:2:0 is ok In PCs


----------



## Danglin52 (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Well to be fair they were pre-announcing features which were ahead of the pack when it came to video. They were aiming high... and they‘ve stumbled. The trouble is, even if they fix it with hardware changes by November, the denizens will pounce and say why didn’t Canon withhold it by a few months.
> 
> Does make you think about if there will be further refinements even after november
> 
> ...



First, I am not a videographer and only use video occasionally. Again, I think Canons only sin here was overhyping the 8k aspect of the camera. This is a very capable hybrid camera - all hybrids have some limitations because they are trying to be all things to all people. Sony with the A7S III is focused on video, but you can also use it for stills. BTW - Where is all the rage or "why bother" comments about even considering the A7s III for stills with a paltry 12mp sensor? The R5 had limitations by design that are controlled by the software, but the you tubers needs something for clickbait


----------



## jam05 (Jul 30, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> you seems to overlook an elephant in the room: IBIS
> sensor assembly has to stay mobile and light. So the heat either to be first absorbed by magnesium alloy body and then extracted either via lens mount throat, peltier element inbuilt into the back of the camera or Dissipate into the bottom plate..


We'll see. We know already that an external fan will work. Canon ex[


SecureGSM said:


> you seems to overlook an elephant in the room: IBIS
> sensor assembly has to stay mobile and light. So the heat either to be first absorbed by magnesium alloy body and then extracted either via lens mount throat, peltier element inbuilt into the back of the camera or Dissipate into the bottom plate..


Astrologist have used external DSLR cooling for over a decade.
We already know that an external fan will work. It most often does, Regardless of the interior design of the camera. It's done all the time in the advvent of loss of air conditioning in electronic equipment rooms. The first thing we do is bring in large fans. Most often we can keep entire buildings with racks of equipment cooled for days. Cool that camera body with a fan/blower or the like an one can keep the temps down. I will record my device temps and setting when it arrives today, and proceed with designing my own supplemental cooling until the Tilta, SmallRig, or Canon devices are available. Not are difficult task.


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> They will squeeze every single dollar from their customer base who are trapped sitting on thousands of dollars of EF glass. Its all about drip feeding its customers. If they give you a camera that doesnt overheat in 2020, what can we give you in 2021-22!



I have not once, ever, seen you post a constructive or thoughtful comment. Every single post is bashing and complaining. It must be exhausting- I know the rest of us are fatigued by the constant and baseless whining from a very small few.

No one is forced to buy any of these cameras, so where is this dollar squeezing? Trapped with EF glass? A simple adapter can put people on any number of non-canon systems.

What I would really like to hear about from you is what you shoot currently, how amazing it is and why, and see some of the incredible content you produce with those tools; if you are not so busy complaining that you never actually produce anything good. Prove your assertions with logic, or be gone.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 30, 2020)

So many of you guys were bitching an winning and going down my throat about me and others leaving comments about the heating issues.
You guys kept saying the overheating is not a concern. Kept complaining about YouTuber's complaining about the heat.

Now you guy are all worried about possibly returning your cameras due to a possible recall?? If it was never a concern before, why not just keep it the way it is instead of bitching about not having it when you send it back for a recall? But NOWWWWW it's an issue??

If people like me weren't leaving comments about the heat being a real issue of concern, Canon wouldn't care and wouldn't be trying to fix this issue now. No firmware update and no possible hardware update/recall or whatever, that they might be working on now. Ever think maybe the people complaining about brand X are doing it not because they are brand Y fanboys but instead because they are hoping brand X hears what features/updates they want them to produce?
sooooo.....YOU'RE WELCOME!!


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> you seems to overlook an elephant in the room: IBIS
> sensor assembly has to stay mobile and light. So the heat either to be first absorbed by magnesium alloy body and then extracted either via lens mount throat, peltier element inbuilt into the back of the camera or Dissipate into the bottom plate..



It's _totally_ possible the thermal couple between the sensor on the IBIS sled and the mag alloy is the problem for exactly that reason. But it doesn't seem to be given that you can run the system at full bore for 20 minutes before issues crop up and then you need a really long cool down. That seems more like hitting the sink capacity.

I probably could have condensed that entire post down to "Those people are idiots. There's a huge heat sink on the R5—it's called the body"


----------



## Nelu (Jul 30, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Sony also has a *Auto* Pwr OFF *Temp* (HIGH) which allows the camera to continue to operate while in the overheat state, until it completely fails. Being that this is what many Sony operators immediately claim should be the setting when testing their cameras is proof that most know about and or use it.


Remind me not to buy a second-hand Sony; like NEVER!


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I encode using H265 all the time on my PC and it's no big deal. I don't know why you say it's going to be the death of computers - that doesn't make any sense at all.
> 
> It's actually a decent codec if you're looking for decent quality and small file size.


H265 takes more time to encode than H264. Do a test and see if your PC can encode 4K 60fps at near real-time with good quality to see the challenges faced and hence why you need hardware support. H265 was designed for 4K and 8k which is probably why it’s being used and not h264...


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Threadripper doesn’t have x.265 decode/encode, nor do arm cpu. Both are handled by GPUs. iPad gpu can handle 4:2:2 whereas current pc gpus cannot. Not sure which generation GPU it needs. Apparently 4:2:0 is ok In PCs



Ah yeah should have said 2080Ti (It was Gerald undone talking about his machine chugging). Six of one, half dozen of the other.


----------



## wyotex43n (Jul 30, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> The new h265 codec is also part of this problem. That codec creates lots of heat, yes there is overheating in 8k but that h265 shit will be the death of cameras and computers. Give the camera motion jpeg and a mp4 h264 and life will be well. Photo shooters should also be concerned with photo battery’s life. It’s not looking good. I hope they get this all sorted. I want canon to succeed and crush it.


I agree with your comment about battery life. Since I shoot 95% stills and most of that is wildlife the battery life is my only concern at this time. Hopefully mine will be here in a few days and I can find out for myself.


----------



## tianxiaozhang (Jul 30, 2020)

So it'll be late fall when the second shipment comes anyhow... temperature will be less of an issue then...

And don't they test their cameras for months prior to release?


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> It there was a manufacturing issue they wouldn’t need to issue the Overheat timings advisory and have a menu feature which you enable to protect against overheating, no?
> 
> second there was a YT video showing the Canon and Sony overheating in Florida - the guy had a temp sensor which could read the heat from the bodies as they started to record. Iirc, around 120 to 130 degrees constant, with the Panasonic being lower by about 10 degrees. It may simply be the Sony sensor can handle the heat and the Canon one can’t for the same period. Whether 12MP has a bearing on that I don’t know. Presume the same with the Panasonic (to the Canon) and hence why they designed a fan in theirs. Maybe Sony needed 5 years to design a solution which could dissipate the heat / take the heat better / didn’t generate as much heat. Even with IBIS which apparently causes challenges.
> 
> ...


d


jam05 said:


> We'll see. We know already that an external fan will work. Canon ex[
> 
> Astrologist have used external DSLR cooling for over a decade.
> We already know that an external fan will work. It most often does, Regardless of the interior design of the camera. It's done all the time in the advvent of loss of air conditioning in electronic equipment rooms. The first thing we do is bring in large fans. Most often we can keep entire buildings with racks of equipment cooled for days. Cool that camera body with a fan/blower or the like an one can keep the temps down. I will record my device temps and setting when it arrives today, and proceed with designing my own supplemental cooling until the Tilta, SmallRig, or Canon devices are available. Not are difficult task.


have you seen a photo where videographer was trying to bring R5 temperature down with a massive leaf blower? it didn’t help Much apparently.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 30, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Super cool. Mine's coming some point today. Disheartening to hear recalls and stuff when first waking up, but if it perfects the body, why not? My atomos is a nice work around for some of the issues for me, but I'm still super stoked. I don't usually pre-order or jump in the first batch with big purchases like this, but I've been waiting for the R5 for a while now. My 5DII and 5DIV were great when I got them a few months after launch, but the R5, hoping it's better.


Always fun unboxing and setting up everything  

Haha, the 1st thing I did was complete all the registration details for the free EF adapter and lens reward and had a couple of hours playing, just like a little kid at xmas lol.

Not sure if the Canon website is having issues though as for some reason it won't let me register it on the Canon CPS membership page. It's stupid things like this that although not massively important, really annoy me. Maybe I'm Turing into a grumpy old man!

Tomorrow looks like it will be a sunny day here in the UK so I'm hoping to be out and try the animal AF on our trainee guide dog when she's free running.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 30, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Astro*logist* have used external DSLR cooling for over a decade.



Then they should have known over a decade ago that the R5/R6 would have had heating issues, LOL


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 30, 2020)

jam05 said:


> We already know that an external fan will work. It most often does, Regardless of the interior design of the camera. It's done all the time in the advvent of loss of air conditioning in electronic equipment rooms. The first thing we do is bring in large fans. Most often we can keep entire buildings with racks of equipment cooled for days. Cool that camera body with a fan/blower or the like an one can keep the temps down.



Are you assuming everyone is shooting indoors? How would event shooters, people using on camera mic, or people moving the camera use a fan?

Beyond the impracticality, an internal OR external fan only works if ambient air is cool enough to reduce heat fast enough. Canon already performed tests at room temperature, so blowing air across the body is not likely to improve things without more heat dissipation surface. Expelling heat from the body with an internal fan might help if they wanted to redesign the camera. In the case of sunlight or certain studio lights there is then an external heat source adding to the problem. In air that is too hot, blow all the air you want inside or out, it will not cool well. In extreme temps like the desert, almost no cooling would be achieved with any fan.

The real question is, how much cooling is enough to make the camera shoot long enough for people to stop complaining. In real world use, I think it already shoots long enough for reasonable use, but many people are not reasonable.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> It's _totally_ possible the thermal couple between the sensor on the IBIS sled and the mag alloy is the problem for exactly that reason. But it doesn't seem to be given that you can run the system at full bore for 20 minutes before issues crop up and then you need a really long cool down. That seems more like hitting the sink capacity.
> 
> I probably could have condensed that entire post down to "Those people are idiots. There's a huge heat sink on the R5—it's called the body"


Two more solutions that twill take care of the issue: relaxed codecs and.. auto focus.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

jam05 said:


> There doesn't need to be a recall. That's stupid. It doesn't have a fan. There are a few options. And not do what Sony did and raise the threshold so that it operates while overheated. Nor use a Auto Pwr OFF Temp (HIGH). In a few weeks there will be third party devices and Canon's own adapter.. I believe this is what the slow down is. I have already called Tilta, and communicated with SmallRig. Tiltas unit will be available mid - late August. I have yet to hear from SmallRig. Myself will order the R cage and design my on small fan attachment and or peltier cooling with USB control similar to that of Tilta unit.


If they could provide an addon then indeed they could continue to sell and stills shooters would be ecstatic....


----------



## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> It's _totally_ possible the thermal couple between the sensor on the IBIS sled and the mag alloy is the problem for exactly that reason. But it doesn't seem to be given that you can run the system at full bore for 20 minutes before issues crop up and then you need a really long cool down. That seems more like hitting the sink capacity.


There is another thread here where results with an external recorder show that overheating in 4K HQ occurs only after over 70 minutes, despite the quality being identical to internal recording. So while heat is generated just by the read out, IBIS, downsampling and application of image profiles, it seems to me like a major source of heat is actually writing to the fast cards. The 8K overheats roughly the after the same time in RAW or compressed mode. So I don't think the encoding is the main source of heat.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> have you seen a photo where videographer was trying to bring R5 temperature down with a massive leaf blower? it didn’t help Much apparently.



All this stuff is way over our pay grade, but air's actually a pretty good insulator. I'm not surprised that blowing on a 2x3 inch piece of plastic (the housing behind the tilty flippy) doesn't do much. The little cooling gimmick that's going around at least had a set of radiator fins the fan was set in to. That alone would be like 8x the cooling surface for that fan to work against.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

TomR said:


> well, if canon recalls this camera (big if i know) then i think its Canon that thinks its a problem


I can't argue against this.


----------



## Juangrande (Jul 30, 2020)

Joules said:


> The firmware fix: Disable the video features. Give those forum posters what they always say they want


Fine by me lol. With every camera I’ve owned I’ve never even looked at the video menus let alone shot even one second of video. I only shoot BTS stuff and I just use my phone for that.


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## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Joules said:


> There is another thread here where results with an external recorder show that overheating in 4K HQ occurs only after over 70 minutes, despite the quality being identical to internal recording. So while heat is generated just by the read out, IBIS, downsampling and application of image profiles, it seems to me like a major source of heat is actually writing to the fast cards. The 8K overheats roughly the after the same time in RAW or compressed mode. So I don't think the encoding is the main source of heat.


I thought HDMI had uncompressed video and the external recorder does the encoding?


----------



## Juangrande (Jul 30, 2020)

arthurbikemad said:


> I do feel this topic is kind of prodding my anxiety, I've been tweeting my dealer and said, for Gods sake, just let me know if I've made the cut......


Which “dealer” we talking about? Lol


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Apple invests heavily in accelerating H265, but it'd still be _hilarious_ if an iPad can handle it but premiere on a threadripper can't


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Of course, and yeah I'm being quite glib here. Regardless of what design goals were set out 4 years ago (45 mp was most likely chosen because they wanted 8K to be a feature) you need to make a call based on the engineering that's happening on the ground. Either:
> 
> - The camera was engineered to handle 8K, went to market with that headline feature assuming it would work, and there's a defect to be addressed.
> - The camera couldn't hit the 8K goal, but it was marketed as such anyways.
> ...


option 2 - they thought the record times were enough, and the decision was made to go to market with limits. I don’t think any 1 department made the decision. Head of their camera division would have bought in to it.


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Also, wow, that EOS thread about a heat sink. A heat sink is a device that you throw (sink) waste heat into so that it can be dissipated. The R5 has a huge heat sink—the mag alloy body. It doesn't matter how big the spreader is on the back of the PCB as long as it can can transfer that heat from the processor and sensor to the body as fast as it's generated. Given the 20-30 minute recording time, I'd say that's the sink (body) reaching it's capacity. This sounds very different from, say, a PC that's got inadequate cooling. Not sure about the lack of thermal compound—that picture was tiny—I suppose it could be an issue but only if it's heat transfer that's the problem not heat dissipation. But you don't put cooling fins (like you'd see on a CPU) on a thermal setup like this because fins are used to dissipate not transfer heat.
> 
> The problem* here seems to be that the sink (mag alloy) can't effectively dissipate the heat generated once it's full. This is why the R6 overheats faster despite processing half the information as the R5. No mag allow to sink heat to! I feel like folks are looking at this and saying "gosh it's not designed like my PC canon is dumb" without a pinch of thought about what's going on:
> 
> ...




Well reasoned. I agree there will not be a problem for most users and use cases. The marketing should perhaps have been more cautious. 

Not sure Canon, busy making great cameras, was prepared for the negative whiny world of youtube parasite do nothing reviewers and their dim-witted followers who eat up their conflict laden drivel. I am continually surprised at how low some of these reviewers will stoop, how large their egos, how gullible their audience is, and how they and their followers do almost everything on irrational emotion instead of thinking. It is truly sad that some of the most careless, abrasive, immature and just gross personalities are listened to by so many.

Canon probably thought the use case for high frame rate and high bit rate 4K modes and 8K would never be thought by anyone to be used for long form shooting. Enter a bunch of griping brand elitists and amateurs with unrealistic expectations and now there is an alleged fatal flaw in the product. Consumers have become dumb and spoiled, and the voice of un-reason is pandered to in the modern world, rather than ignored or refuted. It really is the most complex problem businesses face- how to please an increasingly whiny user base.


----------



## AlP (Jul 30, 2020)

Joules said:


> There is another thread here where results with an external recorder show that overheating in 4K HQ occurs only after over 70 minutes, despite the quality being identical to internal recording. So while heat is generated just by the read out, IBIS, downsampling and application of image profiles, it seems to me like a major source of heat is actually writing to the fast cards. The 8K overheats roughly the after the same time in RAW or compressed mode. So I don't think the encoding is the main source of heat.



So maybe Canon will offer a firmware upgrade allowing to operate the camera with the card door open??
Jokes aside, is there a major difference in terms of internal memory requirements between external recording and writing to the card(s)? There are 4 memory ICs around the processor and close to the card slot, so that area could quickly become a hot spot.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> H265 takes more time to encode than H264. Do a test and see if your PC can encode 4K 60fps at near real-time with good quality to see the challenges faced and hence why you need hardware support. H265 was designed for 4K and 8k which is probably why it’s being used and not h264...




I have nothing in my house that will record anything at 4k60p or I would do this. My PC is a beast and it would be an interesting test.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

AlP said:


> So maybe Canon will offer a firmware upgrade allowing to operate the camera with the card door open??
> Jokes aside, is there a major difference in terms of internal memory requirements between external recording and writing to the card(s)? There are 4 memory ICs around the processor and close to the card slot, so that area could quickly become a hot spot.


Actually that would be a useful feature and apparently the a7s can do it - allows them to swap out a card in one memory slot while the other is being used!


----------



## Joules (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> I thought HDMI had uncompressed video and the external recorder does the encoding?


I didn't claim anything else, did I? But I may have made some poor assumptions

My argument: Internal 8K H.265 overheats after ~25 minutes. Internal 8K RAW overheats after ~ 25 minutes. I was assuming that RAW does not involve any compression and therefore concluded that encoding is not the reason for the overheating. But, looking at the supposed bitrate of 2600 Mbps, there is some compression present, or my math is wrong: (8192 * 4320) pixels * 12 bit per pixel * 30 per second = 12,740 Mbps.

So yeah. We don't know the cause of the heat too well and therefore all this speculation about a possible fix seems pretty of the rails to me.


----------



## Go Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

So...What Sony A7s3 is going to do? Canon wins (again) overheating test!


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I have nothing in my house that will record anything at 4k60p or I would do this.


Try it with any 4K30p. I think you will still be surprised... unless your gpu supports it, SW encoding alone isn’t quick enough. I avoid gpu encoding as there is a quality hit which I’m not happy about. Others are fine.


----------



## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

People are saying "I am a photographer, I dont shoot video, I dont care”. Well I am truly happy for the ”I dont shoot video" photographers. Thank you for giving me an opening.

I am a photographer as well, but video makes me money, and it helps me to land photography jobs that others dont. The more things I can offer a client on a photo shoot the better.

Where I am from, alot of the professionals are older, they refuse to change and evolve, and complain that younger inexperienced guys are undercutting them. Nope we are just offering more, and bringing additional value to a client.

When a client, hires me for a shoot, and I able send them some additional bts footage etc I am increasing my chances of getting a call back and also I am wetting their appetite for more than just photos. Maybe next time they engage me for more than just photography. All other things video related that I can offer to clients increases my value to a production and therefore increases my income.

The overheating issue with the R5 and the R6 is that other activities also decrease its time before overheating, I have seen reviewers saying that after shooting stills only, when they switched to video the R5 immediately gave them an overheating warning. So I can infer, that alot of the overheating times we are seeing are best case scenarios, and the cameras actually perform much worse in real life scenarios where they arent starting from a completely cool starting point.

If I am at an outdoor wedding and I am primarily shooting stills, and I switch to capture some B roll transitions etc, I dont want to be in a rushed and tense situation where the camera is immediately threatening to shut off. The fact that this risk exist in the R5 is a failure. Simple. If you are a photographer that doesnt shoot video or doesnt offer these services, thank you, please remain exactly the way you are!


----------



## AlP (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Actually that would be a useful feature and apparently the a7s can do it - allows them to swap out a card in one memory slot while the other is being used!



Hoping that one verifies which of the two cards is the one being written to before swapping them...


----------



## Kiton (Jul 30, 2020)

I picked my camera up this morning, set it up and testing it out now, so far it is an improved 5d mk 4 with silent shutter and real time live shoot/transfer to the phone as you shoot. I was at a murder scene this morning but did not have the camera yet, so I had to resort to the Apple SD card reader to transfer. The built in Wifi (not the $1000.00 battery grip wifi booster) did kick me out once in first test when the phone and camera went to sleep after a delay, the key may be to keep tapping the shutter and keep it active. I don't shoot video much, so I really don't worry about the over heating complaints, I will never experience those issues in my work flow.


----------



## Juangrande (Jul 30, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> there might already be a heat sink in it. Does the body have room for one? How do they ventilate the body without allowing dirt and moisture to get in? A fan could introduce vibration.
> 
> its hard to imagine a fix that doesn’t involve a thicker body.


I don’t understand why the body needs to be so small in the first place. I love the size of the 5Dmk4 it fits in the hands nicely and balances a large lens well. Smaller bodies become front heavy with fast glass. If they made the R5 in the 5Dmk4 body they could’ve had room for a larger heat sink or some other solution. I was thinking a special video battery grip that has a battery at the base but a fan, heat sink, or large vent where the grip plugs into the battery compartment if that makes sense, but I’m no engineer.


----------



## Kiton (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> People are saying "I am a photographer, I dont shoot video, I dont care”. Well I am truly happy for the ”I dont shoot video" photographers. Thank you for giving me an opening.
> 
> I am a photographer as well, but video makes me money, and it helps me to land photography jobs that others dont. The more things I can offer a client on a photo shoot the better.
> 
> ...




Pretty hard to declare a camera a failure based on internet hearsay! Try the camera and see if it works for. If it does not, there are other choices. We all have different needs and desires.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Joules said:


> I didn't claim anything else, did I? But I may have made some poor assumptions
> 
> My argument: Internal 8K H.265 overheats after ~25 minutes. Internal 8K RAW overheats after ~ 25 minutes. I was assuming that RAW does not involve any compression and therefore concluded that encoding is not the reason for the overheating. But, looking at the supposed bitrate of 2600 Mbps, there is some compression present, or my math is wrong: (8192 * 4320) pixels * 12 bit per pixel * 30 per second = 12,740 Mbps.
> 
> So yeah. We don't know the cause of the heat too well and therefore all this speculation about a possible fix seems pretty of the rails to me.


Did not mean to offend or accuse, sorry.

Yes the issue is compression h265 Or raw encoding and internal writing is generating the additional heat which can’t be dissipated.

So in fact, had Canon restricted the HQ, 120fps and 8k to HDMI only does that not mean there would have been no issue to fix?


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> So...What Sony A7s3 is going to do? Canon wins (again) overheating test!


That’s the video, thanks. I think Panasonic won though, lol


----------



## PUG (Jul 30, 2020)

Got my baby this morning, been playing around with it and I am really impressed! It's silent and lightweight! I'm mainly stills but will test out the video extensively this weekend.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

AlP said:


> Hoping that one verifies which of the two cards is the one being written to before swapping them...


Good point!


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Kiton said:


> Pretty hard to declare a camera a failure based on internet hearsay! Try the camera and see if it works for. If it does not, there are other choices. We all have different needs and desires.


Canon ambassador has confirmed it on YT. Peter McKinnon


----------



## Juangrande (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> A few years back when convergence was all the rage, I posted that I felt that it would ultimately lead to divergence. I think that may be happening.
> 
> In the early years it was easy to add a few video features to stills cameras. As the years went by, the video features became more sophisticated. But, at some point the two uses get highly specialized and there are inevitable conflicts between the two. One has to wonder if it is practical and affordable to have a highly specialized and capable video camera *and* a highly specialized and capable stills camera in the same body.
> 
> ...


I totally agree. I think that’s what Sony did with the A7s3 but flipped the priorities and made a video capable camera that can also shoot some basic albeit mediocre stills if needed in a pinch. I prefer a stills capable camera that can also shoots some video clips here and there if needed. Which is why I’m excited about the R5 as it’s perfect for the way I’ll use it. I think both are great options depending on your workflow.


----------



## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I have not once, ever, seen you post a constructive or thoughtful comment. Every single post is bashing and complaining. It must be exhausting- I know the rest of us are fatigued by the constant and baseless whining from a very small few.
> 
> No one is forced to buy any of these cameras, so where is this dollar squeezing? Trapped with EF glass? A simple adapter can put people on any number of non-canon systems.
> 
> What I would really like to hear about from you is what you shoot currently, how amazing it is and why, and see some of the incredible content you produce with those tools; if you are not so busy complaining that you never actually produce anything good. Prove your assertions with logic, or be gone.


Its flawed, lol why else would people even entertain the fact that there maybe a recall or firmware updates to address issues. A company actually developed a "fan" to attach to the bloody thing... A blinking external fan!!! People are posting about mount adapters that can provide cooling... Its a joke, and people like you who dont hold a company to the fire for delivering a severely hampered product is why they can continually disappoint, because of you. When there are changes to the product and updates, it wont be because of you, it will be because of all the people you complain about. You are welcome.


----------



## DBounce (Jul 30, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> It is not a defect, it was a design decisions. The camera has firmware that both detects, warns and then deals with the situation. It is a defect when they don't know about the issue, ship the product, and then have to create an emergency fix to make it usable beyond spec. None of this is happening, just a lot of noise around people that want more than what was promised. I don't think Canon ever said you should shoot a full length motion picture with this camera. Look at the size, cost, and weight of a camera that could deliver what some people are requesting. I know it is not something that I want.


Look, I like Canon, and actually have an R5 out for delivery as I write this. I can tell you, if I learn that this camera cannot be trusted to perform I will return it. And I’m sure that I am not alone in this thinking. So if it was a design decision it will have an impact on purchase decisions. If Canon wants my $4000 this camera will have to work and not get in the way of my process. It’s that simple... the ball is in their court.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Try it with any 4K30p. I think you will still be surprised... unless your gpu supports it, SW encoding alone isn’t quick enough. I avoid gpu encoding as there is a quality hit which I’m not happy about. Others are fine.




EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 seems to be able to handle it. Just encoded a 3 minute 4K30P video using H265 with 'medium' compression in Handbrake in 1:40 seconds.

Most likely I'm not doing it right.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> People are saying "I am a photographer, I dont shoot video, I dont care”. Well I am truly happy for the ”I dont shoot video" photographers. Thank you for giving me an opening.
> 
> I am a photographer as well, but video makes me money, and it helps me to land photography jobs that others dont. The more things I can offer a client on a photo shoot the better.
> 
> ...


All fair comments and probably quite indicative of one of the challenges any wedding photographer will face.

Alas it means right now, the r5/r6 isn’t suitable for you.

But may I ask what are you comparing the r5/6 to? What are you using today for your stills/video? Would it be fair to say that the r5 lowest 4K mode (which apparently doesn’t overheat) is comparable to whatever (guessing here) Canon body you are currently using?


----------



## Go Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> That’s the video, thanks. I think Panasonic won though, lol


And it must! It has a fan and no so powerful features! But this is a second test only with Sony and Canon! And even with overheating control set to high on Sony which allows more time ( but can damage components) Canon won again!

Edit: this doesn´t give me nothing my only concern is Canon and what the R5 can or can´t do.


----------



## john1970 (Jul 30, 2020)

PUG said:


> Got my baby this morning, been playing around with it and I am really impressed! It's silent and lightweight! I'm mainly stills but will test out the video extensively this weekend.


Everyone looks (or at least me) looks forward to hearing your feedback regarding the video.


----------



## Juangrande (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain.
> 
> I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)


Did Canon really do massive marketing of this camera as a video camera? I don’t recall but maybe I just didn’t see the ads. What I did see was a lot of rumor mills and YouTubers doing massive hype about the video features. I agree if the downplayed the video by saying it could do 20 minute bursts of 8K people would have been amazed because they would’ve been expecting 8K only in time lapse and here Canon is actually giving us 20 minutes! All about managing expectations lol.


----------



## Dragon (Jul 30, 2020)

If this gets magically fixed in a month with a firmware update, just think of all the free publicity in the meantime. It is just possible that this is all part of a marketing strategy, and if so, a pretty bold one at that.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 seems to be able to handle it. Just encoded a 3 minute 4K30P video using H265 with 'medium' compression in Handbrake in 1:40 seconds.
> 
> Most likely I'm not doing it right.


ok, stand corrected. Thanks for trying it.

so now you have a gpu which is as large? as the r5 with 2? fans and a tdp of around 280w which can do real-time 30p and by your timings do almost 60p (but not 120p nor 8k) No idea on the quality of your 30p vs r5.

pretty impressive what the r5 is doing in such a tiny space.

doesnt detract away from what people are saying about the overheating, just gives insight into the challenges and trade offs.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> ok, stand corrected. Thanks for trying it.
> 
> so now you have a gpu which is as large? as the r5 with 2? fans and a tdp of around 280w which can do real-time 30p and by your timings do almost 60p (but not 120p nor 8k) No idea on the quality of your 30p vs r5.
> 
> ...



Downloading a test 4k120p now.

Yeah. No. Not even close and this time my three fans spun up right from the beginning.


----------



## Juangrande (Jul 30, 2020)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> Even if a firmware update allows a higher heat threshold before shutting off, I'm not turning it on (and hopefully it's an option users can toggle). Not worth it to reduce the life of the electronics. The normal 4k mode out of the R5 looks pretty dang good, and I can work around the other limitations, including for hour-long wedding ceremonies.
> Four hour long ceremonies! You must be shooting a lot of catholic weddings lol.
> Only thing I want on the R5 is 1080p 120fps, Clog3, and dual slot video recording. Other than that they can leave it alone, and simply make an RF C100 for everybody that does video and is complaining.
> 
> It's also sort of sad that video has hijacked the R5 dialogue. The first "professional" mirrorless camera from Canon and for all purposes it's what every Canon photographer has dreamed of. This is coming from an 80%video/20% photo guy, too.


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> With B&H closed today and my grip already on the way, how would I know if I got in on the first shipment?


If your order status is “processed ” or “shipped” I think you will be in the first group. B&H were still working right up to 5pm Yesterday. My order changed to shipped around 4:50pm. They will email FEDX tracking no. When shipped. Good luck!


----------



## Dantana (Jul 30, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> It is not a defect, it was a design decisions. The camera has firmware that both detects, warns and then deals with the situation. It is a defect when they don't know about the issue, ship the product, and then have to create an emergency fix to make it usable beyond spec. None of this is happening, just a lot of noise around people that want more than what was promised. I don't think Canon ever said you should shoot a full length motion picture with this camera. Look at the size, cost, and weight of a camera that could deliver what some people are requesting. I know it is not something that I want.


Yes

The funny thing is, you could shoot a full length motion picture with this camera at 8K and not have an issue, if it was a traditionally shot, narrative film. I've never been on the set of a narrative production where the camera was rolling for more than a few minutes at a time, followed by talking, and adjusting, and more adjusting and...

Everyone's needs are different. If you need to shoot at one of the max res heat generating settings for longer than a few minutes at a time, then this isn't the camera for you. Maybe you thought it would be when you first saw the specs, but now it turns out it's not. Oh well.

Oh, and when I say "you" I don't mean Danglin. I'm referring to those who are complaining.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> If your order status is “processed ” or “shipped” I think you will be in the first group. B&H were still working right up to 5pm Yesterday. My order changed to shipped around 4:50pm. They will email FEDX tracking no. When shipped. Good luck!




Naw. I'm toast. Still sitting backordered along with my pathetic little battery haha.. Funny that the grip made the cut and the battery didn't. Odd. I don't hold out any hope but will give it over the weekend before I cancel.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> Its flawed, lol why else would people even entertain the fact that there maybe a recall or firmware updates to address issues. A company actually developed a "fan" to attach to the bloody thing... A blinking external fan!!! People are posting about mount adapters that can provide cooling... Its a joke, and people like you who dont hold a company to the fire for delivering a severely hampered product is why they can continually disappoint, because of you. When there are changes to the product and updates, it wont be because of you, it will be because of all the people you complain about. You are welcome.


Well I think there are 2 approaches - yes, provide balanced feedback to Canon direct or better still, don’t buy it. I think the latter hurts them more.

the issue I think that many people have here is that a lot of the YT comes from people who, to use your earlier analogy have jumped to doing video reviews to differentiate themselves, then found lots of others have also, and now seem to have found that they get more people watching their videos if they create over the top headlines to seek viewers.

based on your work it’s not suitable for you and validly so. But we’re not going to sway Canon on here. The YT crowd - alas yes. The main review sites which also appear to be going with the hyperboles also have heavy influence. For me, the ones that provide a balanced viewpoint are the ones I watch, the rest no thanks. I suggest contacting Canon and telling them why you won’t upgrade would be worthwhile.


----------



## cdcooker (Jul 30, 2020)

Canon have plenty of time to test out the overheat problem before the official launch. There is no excuse on this. Even a minor overheat issue will be blown out of proportion in this internet-every-joe--is-a-camera-reviewer-era, not to mention this is not a minor issue.


----------



## Juangrande (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> They thought the 8k gimmick would gloss over the cracks, also they are relying on all their loyalist customers to defend them no matter what problems the product has, also they are aware that many people are trapped behind thousands of dollars of great EF glass already owned. They also thought they had the best looking girl at the dance, but then Sony and the A7sIII walked through door.


Except the Sony girl at the dance can’t shoot stills and has herpes.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

cdcooker said:


> Canon have plenty of time to test out the overheat problem before the official launch. There is no excuse on this. Even a minor overheat issue will be blown out of proportion in this internet-every-joe--is-a-camera-reviewer-era, not to mention this is not a minor issue.


They did test it hence why they had the timings and an option in one of the menus around overheat.

but agreed they have misjudged the response.


----------



## Danglin52 (Jul 30, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Look, I like Canon, and actually have an R5 out for delivery as I write this. I can tell you, if I learn that this camera cannot be trusted to perform I will return it. And I’m sure that I am not alone in this thinking. So if it was a design decision it will have an impact on purchase decisions. If Canon wants my $4000 this camera will have to work and not get in the way of my process. It’s that simple... the ball is in their court.



I totally agree with you about the camera performing to spec with the limitations sited by Canon and embedded with in the software, I think you will be happy. If you are buying it with the intent of recording more than 20 min of 8K or 4k HQ, you might as well cancel the order now.


----------



## rbielefeld (Jul 30, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Well reasoned. I agree there will not be a problem for most users and use cases. The marketing should perhaps have been more cautious.
> 
> Not sure Canon, busy making great cameras, was prepared for the negative whiny world of youtube parasite do nothing reviewers and their dim-witted followers who eat up their conflict laden drivel. I am continually surprised at how low some of these reviewers will stoop, how large their egos, how gullible their audience is, and how they and their followers do almost everything on irrational emotion instead of thinking. It is truly sad that some of the most careless, abrasive, immature and just gross personalities are listened to by so many.
> 
> Canon probably thought the use case for high frame rate and high bit rate 4K modes and 8K would never be thought by anyone to be used for long form shooting. Enter a bunch of griping brand elitists and amateurs with unrealistic expectations and now there is an alleged fatal flaw in the product. Consumers have become dumb and spoiled, and the voice of un-reason is pandered to in the modern world, rather than ignored or refuted. It really is the most complex problem businesses face- how to please an increasingly whiny user base.


Yep, you have hit it pretty much on the head. Canon was basically up front with the limitations of these cameras as they are written in the manual. So, as a consumer, determine if the tool will meet your needs and if so buy it, if not get something else or wait until what you need becomes available. Most importantly, don't go by what others say about a product like these cameras. Get one in your hands and give it a go. Then make a truly informed decision based on the way you approach photography. For me this camera is going to be perfect I think. I shoot mostly action type stills with short clips of video to back them up at times. I can't wait to get my R5, which will be here tomorrow. Then I will determine if it meets my needs, but not before then. I think it will without any issues.

I do wish those who say Canon has made a big mistake with these cameras would at least wait until photographers have them in their hands and in-depth reviews are done by the masses before a judgment is made. My hypothesis is that for the price point these cameras will be very competent if not stellar performers within their limitations.


----------



## Danglin52 (Jul 30, 2020)

Dantana said:


> Yes
> 
> The funny thing is, you could shoot a full length motion picture with this camera at 8K and not have an issue, if it was a traditionally shot, narrative film. I've never been on the set of a narrative production where the camera was rolling for more than a few minutes at a time, followed by talking, and adjusting, and more adjusting and...
> 
> ...



I realize I wasn't the you and agree with the movie thing. Many people don't realize that most movies scenes are shot in short clips and then assembled in post (yes, 1918 took a different approach). I think it is more you tubers making an issue because then can't shoot themselves sitting at their desk sharing their opinions with the world. I think most of them would see themselves and 8k and realize that is shows every little flaw and they will be dialing back the resolution. As a stills shooter, I don't shoot a lot of video even when I would like to capture some action because I want high quality stills. One thing I will test if I can flip to 8k video for a few minutes to capture unique behavior and then pull out some stills if I see something I like. The 8k is a feature that appeals to subset and the noise is making us miss the advantage of what appears to be either class leading or at least matching Olympus IBIS on a full frame sensor. Pretty amazing! If someone need 8k, their option is either living with the limitations of the R5 or spending thousands of dollars more to buy one of the professional solutions - that is not going to get you a great stills experience. Once again, this is a hybrid which makes comprises on both ends.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Downloading a test 4k120p now.
> 
> Yeah. No. Not even close and this time my three fans spun up right from the beginning.


Thank you.

i don’t use the gpu, and I use staxripper. I get maybe 3 to 5 FPS encode speed across 16 cores - ha ha.

whatever is doing or assisting with the x265 and perhaps the associated buffering / writing to CFexpress is generating the additional heat. But depending on how that’s implemented and based on what I’ve read about differences on h265 across Nvidia gpu generations I’m not sure they have much latitude to change much on the encoding approach outside of frame rates, bits per frame etc. I’m sure they have some, but enough to lower the heat but maintain the quality and frame rates ? if they have well why didn’t they do it before. Doesn’t make sense.

the more I read the comments here, the more I think they should have pushed the higher modes over HDMI (bar raw which they perhaps can’t do). There’s obviously good reasons why they didn’t want to disable internal on these modes....


----------



## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> All fair comments and probably quite indicative of one of the challenges any wedding photographer will face.
> 
> Alas it means right now, the r5/r6 isn’t suitable for you.
> 
> But may I ask what are you comparing the r5/6 to? What are you using today for your stills/video? Would it be fair to say that the r5 lowest 4K mode (which apparently doesn’t overheat) is comparable to whatever (guessing here) Canon body you are currently using?


Yes you are quite right, the base video modes on the R5 are better than what I currently use. It will be an improvement for sure. But its a $3800 improvement that brings with it some serious concerns. I haved owned only APSC 60d, 80d, 90d... I sold both 80d and 90d, and now I rent for past 8 months 5DMIII or IV for jobs. 

Been saving to move into mirrorless so far $5700 set aside. Should have $7100 by September. I was looking at combination of either the R6 + RP or the R5 + RP. Currently the R6 is totally out of the question because it cant even do 4k30p without overheating and thats a no go for the makeup tutorial clients I currently have. 

People say well just shoot 1080, but yall dont realize how normal people (clients) think... 4k is a selling point, even though they cant tell the difference. Anyways, look let me let you all enjoy your new product, I'll find a way to deal with my disappointment. Actually thinking about the A7sIII + A7R II combo, or the Nikon Z6/Atomos + Z5 combo, there are options, all still within budget. So I will be fine.


----------



## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

Juangrande said:


> Except the Sony girl at the dance can’t shoot stills and has herpes.


lol dead


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> Yes you are quite right, the base video modes on the R5 are better than what I currently use. It will be an improvement for sure. But its a $3800 improvement that brings with it some serious concerns. I haved owned only APSC 60d, 80d, 90d... I sold both 80d and 90d, and now I rent for past 8 months 5DMIII or IV for jobs.
> 
> Been saving to move into mirrorless so far $5700 set aside. Should have $7100 by September. I was looking at combination of either the R6 + RP or the R5 + RP. Currently the R6 is totally out of the question because it cant even do 4k30p without overheating and thats a no go for the makeup tutorial clients I currently have.
> 
> People say well just shoot 1080, but yall dont realize how normal people (clients) think... 4k is a selling point, even though they cant tell the difference. Anyways, look let me let you all enjoy your new product, I'll find a way to deal with my disappointment. Actually thinking about the A7sIII + A7R II combo, or the Nikon Z6/Atomos + Z5 combo, there are options, all still within budget. So I will be fine.



thank you and yes I understand your concerns. I would still flag them to Canon

Using an atomos with the canons solves the problem i thought ?

Sony can’t do internal I thought for their higher bit rate modes either ?

so if you are factoring in an atomos then your r5/r6 is still viable perhaps? Not that I’m spending your money!


----------



## Nelu (Jul 30, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Well reasoned. I agree there will not be a problem for most users and use cases. The marketing should perhaps have been more cautious.
> 
> Not sure Canon, busy making great cameras, was prepared for the negative whiny world of youtube parasite do nothing reviewers and their dim-witted followers who eat up their conflict laden drivel. I am continually surprised at how low some of these reviewers will stoop, how large their egos, how gullible their audience is, and how they and their followers do almost everything on irrational emotion instead of thinking. It is truly sad that some of the most careless, abrasive, immature and just gross personalities are listened to by so many.
> 
> Canon probably thought the use case for high frame rate and high bit rate 4K modes and 8K would never be thought by anyone to be used for long form shooting. Enter a bunch of griping brand elitists and amateurs with unrealistic expectations and now there is an alleged fatal flaw in the product. Consumers have become dumb and spoiled, and the voice of un-reason is pandered to in the modern world, rather than ignored or refuted. It really is the most complex problem businesses face- how to please an increasingly whiny user base.


I'd double-like your comment if I only could!
We live in a world full of entitled ,whining little people.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

Dantana said:


> Yes
> 
> The funny thing is, you could shoot a full length motion picture with this camera at 8K and not have an issue, if it was a traditionally shot, narrative film. I've never been on the set of a narrative production where the camera was rolling for more than a few minutes at a time, followed by talking, and adjusting, and more adjusting and...





Danglin52 said:


> I agree with you about the movie thing. People don't realize that most movies scenes are shot in short clips and then assembled in post


But you both miss the point that the temperature control starts the second the camera is turned on not when the record button is pushed, and in a production environment that can easily be 15/20minutes before 'action'. I think we are all in agreement though, nobody should be looking at the R5 to shoot their next big production or long form video, that is not what it was designed to do.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

arthurbikemad said:


> Anyone know if the C500 is any good as a stills camera


No it sucks at stills, however the FX9 is a dream, best video/stills hybrid ever made, shoot 4k all day and all night, damn it will even do 6k forever.
[/sarcasm]


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

Nelu said:


> We live in a world full of entitled ,whining little people.



Yep. I live north of Seattle. Tell me about it.


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> People are saying "I am a photographer, I dont shoot video, I dont care”. Well I am truly happy for the ”I dont shoot video" photographers. Thank you for giving me an opening.
> 
> I am a photographer as well, but video makes me money, and it helps me to land photography jobs that others dont. The more things I can offer a client on a photo shoot the better.
> 
> ...



The failure is you not understanding this is the MILC version of what would be the 5D5 as a DSLR. It is a weather sealed stills hybrid camera with limited video capability and those limitations have been disclosed before it could be purchased. No one has victimized you and yet you act like you have been cheated or are owed something by Canon. This camera is not a dedicated video camera for your 8K wedding footage (as if anyone wants that) at a stills camera price. 

You have unrealistic, emotional expectations and a wholly abrasive and illogical way of presenting your opinions; none of which are backed by detailed reasoning. In not one post have you demonstrated that you can understand the technical challenge of a large MP sensor readout at high bit rate. You have never acknowledged the challenges and tradeoffs required to bring a product to market. You just keep repeating what amounts to a tantrum that you did not get offered the dream camera you imagine at the price you want to pay. Buying past products of a company is never a guarantee that around the corner they will produce exactly what you want or think you need- they do not exist just for you. You have not demonstrated that you are in any way capable of making the proper tool selection for your business, or else you would not be here whining over and over and over and over about camera you don't own and have never held! Why are you still here and not out shooting with your 12MP Sony? You aren't holding any company to the fire or trying to get a better product, you are just whining. Why don't you email Canon your angst laden monologues if you want a better product and save the rest of us the headache of your non-constructive rants.


----------



## Nelu (Jul 30, 2020)

PUG said:


> Got my baby this morning: *IT's A BOY!!!*
> Been playing around with it and I am really impressed! It's silent and lightweight!


Sorry, I just couldn't resist it!


----------



## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> thank you and yes I understand your concerns. I would still flag them to Canon
> 
> Using an atomos with the canons solves the problem i thought ?
> 
> ...



Yes the atomos will extend record time, but spending a premium for a body in relation to its class competitors, then still have to buy an atomos for it just to avoid overheating. May as well buy the Z6 and Atomos. I do realize that I am in a unique position as I am completely overhauling my gear and not tied to brand loyalty because of legacy equip in my possession.

Z6 + Atomos and accessories = $2600
R6 Body only $2500

A7sIII = $3500
A7rII = $1000
R5 Body only $3900


----------



## cdcooker (Jul 30, 2020)

R5 may break the record to be the soonest model to be available in Canon refurbished store after the official launch. Once returned, they have to go to the refurbished route.


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> Its flawed, lol why else would people even entertain the fact that there maybe a recall or firmware updates to address issues. A company actually developed a "fan" to attach to the bloody thing... A blinking external fan!!! People are posting about mount adapters that can provide cooling... Its a joke, and people like you who dont hold a company to the fire for delivering a severely hampered product is why they can continually disappoint, because of you. When there are changes to the product and updates, it wont be because of you, it will be because of all the people you complain about. You are welcome.



I am welcome? Just wow.... 

I don't need changes to the product and while you are still here bitterly complaining, I will be out shooting successfully with it by this weekend. I don't try to take stills with my Sony NXCAM and I don't try to take documentary video with my 5D4 very often. You won;t see me trying to shoot high data rates for long times with the R5.

I don't play brand elitist and I do hold companies accountable when necessary. However, If I have a complaint about a product, I express it with logic and care in a constructive fashion rather than getting emotional and calling it a joke or bashing the brand. I also usually utilize forums for constructive discussion with users, and go directly to a company if I have a concern, rather than expecting them to read my mind as I gripe into the aether.

I have sufficient intellect and self awareness to select a product that suits my needs, can apply each tool I buy properly in the field, and have the awareness that no one owes me anything further after I make a purchase. 

I don't make camera purchase decisions with ego or rabid emotion, and I learn to use each tool within its limitations. I don't take products I buy (or could buy) personally. Life is too short, and success comes from using what you have and adapting to what is, not lamenting what should be.

Let me be clear, you are not helping anyone get a better product here, not even yourself.


----------



## adigoks (Jul 30, 2020)

here is what come to my mind.
it maybe not whats next for R5 or R6, but rather whats next for canon in general.
- C700 Full Frame , 8K up to 60p with RF mount
- R1 , 1 series camera with 24-32mp sensor


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## Go Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> Yes the atomos will extend record time, but spending a premium for a body in relation to its class competitors, then still have to buy an atomos for it just to avoid overheating. May as well buy the Z6 and Atomos. I do realize that I am in a unique position as I am completely overhauling my gear and not tied to brand loyalty because of legacy equip in my possession.
> 
> Z6 + Atomos and accessories = $2600
> R6 Body only $2500
> ...



Z6....really? A7R2...REALLY? And you are comparing the Z6 or the A7r2 to the R5? Yeah Nikon was smart, they saw they were going nowhere in video and they just opened the doors to Atomos and external record making a bad camera for video suddenly look appealing. But you need to record almost 100% in MF because you can´t rely on AF of Nikon for video. You have a way worse 4k. You have way less photo capabilities....overall the Z6 is way worse than the R5. I mean....you just can´t compare!!! Not to talk about the Sony A7r2. I have a Sony A7r3 and there are likes and dislikes about the camera...About video it can produce very good video. But...It´s just not even near to this R5. I don´t know about the A7s3 but from what i´ve seen, it´s just as good or even a bit better than the EOS R5 for video. But it´s a videocentric camera, it must be! And it should be way better.

What is the problem of investing more 600$ in a external recording? Well I tell you this...Everyone, I mean....Everyone that is in video for real has an external recorder or at least an external monitor. So....What´s the big deal...And Ninja V is quite small and compact. If it solves your problems why not??

But if you think it´s too much money, then maybe the camera is out of your budget...Think like this....recording to an external record can save you a LOOTT of money in CFEXPRESS cards! SSD drives are way more cheaper than CFEXPRESS at this point. You can buy a 1TB SSD for about 200€ for 240€ you get a 128gb CFEXPRESS...

If you go buy the EOS R5 for video of course you have to make sure you can solve the potencial problems camera can have...And if using an external record solve a lot of problems.....Hell yeahh...!!  Cheers


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## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> Z6....really? A7R2...REALLY? And you are comparing the Z6 or the A7r2 to the R5? Yeah Nikon was smart, they saw they were going nowhere in video and they just opened the doors to Atomos and external record making a bad camera for video suddenly look appealing. But you need to record almost 100% in MF because you can´t rely on AF of Nikon for video. You have a way worse 4k. You have way less photo capabilities....overall the Z6 is way worse than the R5. I mean....you just can´t compare!!! Not to talk about the Sony A7r2. I have a Sony A7r3 and there are likes and dislikes about the camera...About video it can produce very good video. But...It´s just not even near to this R5. I don´t know about the A7s3 but from what i´ve seen, it´s just as good or even a bit better than the EOS R5 for video. But it´s a videocentric camera, it must be! And it should be way better.
> 
> What is the problem of investing more 600$ in a external recording? Well I tell you this...Everyone, I mean....Everyone that is in video for real has an external recorder or at least an external monitor. So....What´s the big deal...And Ninja V is quite small and compact. If it solves your problems why not??
> 
> ...


Can confirm. Work in video. Have an Atomos Shogun in my personal kit and Ninja V at office.


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## Go Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Can confirm. Work in video. Have an Atomos Shogun in my personal kit and Ninja V at office.


I also have the Shogun inferno i am just waiting for tomorrow to pair it with my R5. Share some infos on your setup


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## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> I also have the Shogun inferno i am just waiting for tomorrow to pair it with my R5. Share some infos on your setup


My R5 comes today but the cable is still getting shipped from bh. The one I bought didnt have 4k support and my old cables were micro hdmi and not the mini the r5 supports.


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 30, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> ok, stand corrected. Thanks for trying it.
> 
> so now you have a gpu which is as large? as the r5 with 2? fans and a tdp of around 280w which can do real-time 30p and by your timings do almost 60p (but not 120p nor 8k) No idea on the quality of your 30p vs r5.
> 
> ...



The 4K120 footage from the R5 plays and edits like butter for my setup. I dropped it straight into Premiere, applied a couple minor effects and didn't have to render for smooth playback. The export time was also about equal to the length of the video. 

This is on a desktop with an i9, GTX 1080, and 64 gigs of ram. Even with After Effects opened, Audition, and Webex, it didn't use over 30 gigs of ram during playback. CPU utilization was high, the GPU was hardly used. The periodically kicks on and off, I do use liquid cooling. I don't think a laptop would be good for editing this type of footage yet, and it seems like the bottle neck is the CPU, not the GPU.


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> If I am at an outdoor wedding and I am primarily shooting stills, and I switch to capture some B roll transitions etc, I dont want to be in a rushed and tense situation where the camera is immediately threatening to shut off. The fact that this risk exist in the R5 is a failure. Simple. If you are a photographer that doesnt shoot video or doesnt offer these services, thank you, please remain exactly the way you are!



You are broadly right here; These features are in the cameras for a reason. They provide real value to working pros. My quibble is this: I haven't seen anything that indicates 4K full width or 5.1K crop is thermally limited in any way. If you're a true hybrid shooter your options are as wide open as they were before!

- Carry two dedicated cameras, one for best quality video and best quality stills
- Carry one camera and decide which quality you'd like to emphasize: video (A7S/SH1/GH4) or stills (A7R, Z7, R5)

It just so happens that one of those stills-focused cameras *also* has the ability to do a lot more with video, with some pretty huge workflow considerations that may be a dealbreaker, forcing you to do to option 1. The problem here is that Canon told the world this was not a compromise they'd have to make anymore. That was, at best, an overstatement. And at worst, an outright lie.

If I'm wrong about the thermals on the standard or crop 4k modes please let me know as it really would affect my pre-order. I'm 90% stills but I do need a camera to always be able to drop into 4K.


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## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> Z6....really? A7R2...REALLY? And you are comparing the Z6 or the A7r2 to the R5? Yeah Nikon was smart, they saw they were going nowhere in video and they just opened the doors to Atomos and external record making a bad camera for video suddenly look appealing. But you need to record almost 100% in MF because you can´t rely on AF of Nikon for video. You have a way worse 4k. You have way less photo capabilities....overall the Z6 is way worse than the R5. I mean....you just can´t compare!!! Not to talk about the Sony A7r2. I have a Sony A7r3 and there are likes and dislikes about the camera...About video it can produce very good video. But...It´s just not even near to this R5. I don´t know about the A7s3 but from what i´ve seen, it´s just as good or even a bit better than the EOS R5 for video. But it´s a videocentric camera, it must be! And it should be way better.
> 
> What is the problem of investing more 600$ in a external recording? Well I tell you this...Everyone, I mean....Everyone that is in video for real has an external recorder or at least an external monitor. So....What´s the big deal...And Ninja V is quite small and compact. If it solves your problems why not??
> 
> ...



No, that's not what I am comparing. This was a follow up comment to another poster. To provide context what I am saying is the Z6 + Atomos is about the same cost of an R6 body alone. In fact I will say the Z6 + Atomos offers more value than the R6, when accounting for the ability to shoot raw and all the features of the Atomos including superb storage. But that again is just my opinion.

When looking at the R5, which sells at premium to the A7SIII, you can basically get the cheaper A7SIII a superior video camera and pair it with the 42mp A7RII, that combo is only a couple hundred dollars more than an R5 body alone. And you get best of both worlds, with lots less limitations.


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## DylanC (Jul 30, 2020)

For me, the overheating problem is less of a concern considering that I'm not shooting docs. That said, Canon NEEDS to address this at some point because it's gonna drive video people to the A7SIII.

What I'm more concerned about is H.265. My Macbook Pro stutters when editing H.265 in general so I'm very concerned about editing 4K 60FPS, 10-bit, 4:2:2 footage... 

HVEC 4:2:2 is going to be an issue for both Sony and Canon. And I don't think the fanboys who only care about tech specs know the magnitude of this issue.

Source:


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## Go Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> No, that's not what I am comparing. This was a follow up comment to another poster. To provide context what I am saying is the Z6 + Atomos is about the same cost of an R6 body alone. In fact I will say the Z6 + Atomos offers more value than the R6, when accounting for the ability to shoot raw and all the features of the Atomos including superb storage. But that again is just my opinion.
> 
> When looking at the R5, which sells at premium to the A7SIII, you can basically get the cheaper A7SIII a superior video camera and pair it with the 42mp A7RII, that combo is only a couple hundred dollars more than an R5 body alone. And you get best of both worlds, with lots less limitations.



Then again, the R6 is very superior to the Z6. And then again, if you buy the R6 for video, you should always buy an external recorder. It just helps a lot! 

From the other perspective, that´s why the R5 is so powerful you don´t need 2 bodies!! You can do everything with one body! And again....limitations are very, but VERY abstract! It can be a problem for some people...yes, but not for others. And let me remind that the A7s3 also overheats. Not like Canon, but it overheats in some occasions which is normal. But let me point some things about the A7r2. Crappy battery. Crappy body, crappy AF, crappy hardware. Sony has corrected most of the flaws of the R2 in the R3. So if you want to be effective in photos you must buy the R3. Unless your type of photo doesn´t require a good AF and you don´t care to carry 6 batteries. 

The R5 is a beast for photos and video. And for my use it´s the perfect camera! Yes, we have potencialy overheating problems in video! And again yes, if I can solve them with an external record...I got a perfect camera!!


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> No, that's not what I am comparing. This was a follow up comment to another poster. To provide context what I am saying is the Z6 + Atomos is about the same cost of an R6 body alone. In fact I will say the Z6 + Atomos offers more value than the R6, when accounting for the ability to shoot raw and all the features of the Atomos including superb storage. But that again is just my opinion.
> 
> When looking at the R5, which sells at premium to the A7SIII, you can basically get the cheaper A7SIII a superior video camera and pair it with the 42mp A7RII, that combo is only a couple hundred dollars more than an R5 body alone. And you get best of both worlds, with lots less limitations.



The A7RII has so many limitations compared to the III or IV I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. The AF is not great, the ergonomics were well before Sony finally hit their stride and isn't it known for overheating? It's a great camera if all you need is a 42mp sensor with solid DR, but it falls short as a workhorse. Sony, to their credit, made a lot of strides with the following two generations. There's a reason you can pick one up for $1200. Good luck even getting the rated 5fps out of that camera.

100% fair to say that you can get a compelling video focused package with those two bodies. Is it not fair to say there are "lots less limitations" with that combo. If you need reliable autofocus or more than 5 frames per second (uh, and the buffer holds like 22 raw and it only dumps to UHS-I cards) there are most certainly a lot of limitations.

Anyways, If the gap here is Canon doesn't have a 2 generations old cameras that meets your needs, ok, welcome to capitalism. But that doesn't mean the R5 sucks.

If the gap here is that Canon doesn't have a current generation 12mp video centric mirrorless body, YES you are totally right. I wish they did too! But that *doesn't mean the R5 sucks.*


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## Ferris (Jul 30, 2020)

Josh Leavitt said:


> It's probably far too late for this, but the best solution for long high bit-rate record times is a dedicated heat sink. I think Canon might be better served in the long run by bringing two variants to market. Keep the weather sealed R5 and R6 as they are now with their modest recording times and market those to stills photographers. And then release video modified versions (RV5 and RV6 if you will) with a redesigned back to accommodate a vented heat sink (and fan possibly). The rear of the camera would probably look like the monstrously ugly Fuji GFX-50S, but it would certainly take care of the overheating issue.



Just to clarify, does the 'V' stand for video, or for Vornado?


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## Max TT (Jul 30, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> Then again, the R6 is very superior to the Z6. And then again, if you buy the R6 for video, you should always buy an external recorder. It just helps a lot!
> 
> From the other perspective, that´s why the R5 is so powerful you don´t need 2 bodies!! You can do everything with one body! And again....limitations are very, but VERY abstract! It can be a problem for some people...yes, but not for others. And let me remind that the A7s3 also overheats. Not like Canon, but it overheats in some occasions which is normal. But let me point some things about the A7r2. Crappy battery. Crappy body, crappy AF, crappy hardware. Sony has corrected most of the flaws of the R2 in the R3. So if you want to be effective in photos you must buy the R3. Unless your type of photo doesn´t require a good AF and you don´t care to carry 6 batteries.
> 
> The R5 is a beast for photos and video. And for my use it´s the perfect camera! Yes, we have potencialy overheating problems in video! And again yes, if I can solve them with an external record...I got a perfect camera!!


Sidenote: Most of my jobs require two bodies at least. 

Right now the limitations with overheating on R5 and R6 are too much for me and what I do. I do agree they are great cameras spec wise, but the overheating time just doesn't work for me.


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## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

It's truly amazing what lengths people go through to convince everyone this camera is perfectly fine as it is, and Canon should not have done anything more to mitigate the constnt heat buildup somehow.
Canon has marketed the movie modes heavily. From the original presentation in this order: 20 fps - AF - ISO 51k - 45MP - 4K120 - 8K

So yeah, it's on the feature list and some people would like it to work without three asterisks behind each video mode. To be clear, I do not expect this camera to work in 8k without limitations, that would be absurd. However shooting 4k you have the choice between 4k120, 4k60 and 4k30 HQ (which all overheat), and 4k30 either line-skipped or cropped, which each brings it's own problems. So your choice is either overheating modes or otherwise flawed modes. Not to mention the R6, which overheats in all 4K modes.

People talking about "noone needs to record this long" fail to see that the heat countdown starts the second you turn on the camera, which certainly does not help any workflow.

I frequently do 4 hour video assignments with two or more cameras that yield about an hour of footage. This is no cinema production, just something anyone with some skills can do on the side. Currently doing this with an 1DX2 (4K60, but no CLog) and a 5D4 (CLog, but no 4K60).
Is it too much to expect a new camera to make this easier? Instead I have to keep an excel sheet in my head when which camera might overheat and which mode I can still use without running down the timer too much, all the while switching off all cameras at the slightest hint of apause.

Is this the video future anyone wanted?

I'm happy for you if you shot photos only, really. This is a great camera. But just because you don't need video doesn't mean the problems shouldn't be fixed.

For the record, I would be happy with up to 4K60 without overheating, and the camera not heating up as much in standy. I'm fine with special modes (4K120 and 8K) running down the clock. Is that still too much to ask from a 4400€ camera in a world where video on ILCs has been common (and expected) for years?

Also you guy do realize that if the camera heats up in standby, that this will degrade ISO performance even if you're not using it? How much is anyone's guess. But is that really what you want, a camera that degrades the longer you let it sit turned on?

For the record I have my R5 preordered and am planning to work around the limitations, hopefully it'll be fine with an external recorder. But I really should not have to rely on hope in this pricerange...


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## 3serious (Jul 30, 2020)

Well, that's great. I ordered my R5 from Best Buy on 7/9 at 803AM, and they canceled my order without explanation on 7/27. Guess I will be getting it from a different company in November.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> It's truly amazing what lengths people go through to convince everyone this camera is perfectly fine as it is, and Canon should not have done anything more to mitigate the constnt heat buildup somehow.
> Canon has marketed the movie modes heavily. From the original presentation in this order: 20 fps - AF - ISO 51k - 45MP - 4K120 - 8K
> 
> So yeah, it's on the feature list and some people would like it to work without three asterisks behind each video mode. To be clear, I do not expect this camera to work in 8k without limitations, that would be absurd. However shooting 4k you have the choice between 4k120, 4k60 and 4k30 HQ (which all overheat), and 4k30 either line-skipped or cropped, which each brings it's own problems. So your choice is either overheating modes or otherwise flawed modes. Not to mention the R6, which overheats in all 4K modes.
> ...


Well take a look at this test then where side by side in 4k60 the Sony α7S III overheats before the R5, twice.


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## DBounce (Jul 30, 2020)

So my R5 was just delivered and I snapped a few quick pictures of my dog. Wow this things AF is the best I have used. It soooo easy to get perfect shots that I look like an absolute god of photography and I'm not even trying. I use to think that my 1DXMk2 was so easy it was "like" cheating.... but the R5 is not "like" cheating... It "IS" cheating. Easily the best AF I have ever experienced.

Now to the drama: When I first received the body I was thinking it might be broken, because it was acting very strangely. The camera arrived with the included battery not charged, so I popped in a off-brand on that was charged up and tried to power it up. After a long delay it displayed a message asking if the battery was a genuine Canon battery. I selected no but the camera did not display the expected setup screen... or menus. I shut it off, but it did not power down. Finally I pulled the battery out and depressed the shutter button, thinking it would disperse any stored charge. After reinserting the battery the same thing happened again. Finally I decided to try it again. but this time using the included battery. Thankfully, this time it booted successfully and allowed me to complete setup.

After completing setup in inserted I ADATA SD card rated at V90. The R5 did not like this card at all. The menus would not display quickly. The camera could not format it even though it was write enabled. And the read speed were beyond slow. Fortunately, I had some other SD cards laying around. So I repeated the process with a SanDisk. This time everything worked flawlessly. The take away is the R5 can work with third party batteries, but not on first boot. And secondly, this camera is a bit picky with which SD cards it will work with.

I haven't gotten into the overheating issues yet. In fact, I have not recorded any video yet. With the initial issues behind me, I can tell you this camera seems to perform amazingly. It feels solid and sure in hand. The screen is bright and responsive. If the video side lives up to my expectation I will be quite happy with this purchase.


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 30, 2020)

DylanC said:


> For me, the overheating problem is less of a concern considering that I'm not shooting docs. That said, Canon NEEDS to address this at some point because it's gonna drive video people to the A7SIII.
> 
> What I'm more concerned about is H.265. My Macbook Pro stutters when editing H.265 in general so I'm very concerned about editing 4K 60FPS, 10-bit, 4:2:2 footage...
> 
> ...




If you're editing on an underpowered machine or laptop that's limited by heat, then proxy files are your best friend. Use them, they'll make your life infinitely easier.


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## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Well take a look at this test then where side by side in 4k60 the Sony α7S III overheats before the R5, twice.



I have seen both his videos. My takeaway from this and other tests is that the Sony works a lot better in "normal" temperatures (unlimited), but at least the R5 does not degrade in direct sunlight. I sometimes do have daylight shoots in blazing sun, but my assumption from all the material I've seen is that the Sony would recovery a lot faster when put in a less strict environment temporarily (like half an hour indoors). The R5 even overheats in studio settings with AC on and takes sometimes up to two hours to recover fully.

I would not take this video and use it as an argument that the A7S3 overheats faster than the R5 in general. It does so in this, very specific test. And it was not tested how long each camera would take to recover in a normal climate, and how long you could shoot again after waiting e.g. 10 minutes.

Still, thanks though.


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## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

DylanC said:


> For me, the overheating problem is less of a concern considering that I'm not shooting docs. That said, Canon NEEDS to address this at some point because it's gonna drive video people to the A7SIII.




Which also overheats - sometimes faster than Canon.


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> I have seen both his videos. My takeaway from this and other tests is that the Sony works a lot better in "normal" temperatures (unlimited), but at least the R5 does not degrade in direct sunlight. I sometimes do have daylight shoots in blazing sun, but my assumption from all the material I've seen is that the Sony would recovery a lot faster when put in a less strict environment temporarily (like half an hour indoors). The R5 even overheats in studio settings with AC on and takes sometimes up to two hours to recover fully.
> 
> I would not take this video and use it as an argument that the A7S3 overheats faster than the R5 in general. It does so in this, very specific test. And it was not tested how long each camera would take to recover in a normal climate, and how long you could shoot again after waiting e.g. 10 minutes.
> 
> Still, thanks though.



Correct. This shows while the Canon's electronics aren't exposed much to the ambient heat, it also means it doesn't release its heat. Tight weather sealing and materials that do not transfer heat results in holding onto heat like hot coffee in a Yeti cup. 

I'm curious what the Sony's recovery time is given that it's more affected by ambient temperature and transferring heat from the sun.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 30, 2020)

lol woke up to 10 pages of this. Disadvantage of my time zone I guess.


The notion that the R5 is flawed stems from a super vocal minority. Yes we are more likely to get commentary from YouTube. Guess who YouTube consists of? They are video-centric creators. So of course they are latching onto the heat limiting time constraints of video recording. This has been exacerbated by the release of the Sony A7SIII which appears to have not much by way of limitations to its recording times. It very conveniently ignores what a nearly flawless stills camera the R5 is. And it pooh pooh's the paltry 12MP sensor, and pretty bad Sensor Stabilization. Yes I'm certain that the Karen's of the world are a minority even though it doesn't feel like that. That's because they happen to be screaming the loudest. Same for Video First YouTubers... and even worse if they happen to be Sony Fanboi's. Yeah... I just compared them to Karen's.
I am not excusing Canon. They could have foresaw this backlash. Imagine if they marketed the 8K and 4KHQ as 'burst mode only.' Don't even say how long it is. The market perception actually changes. Most would have assumed these are what they are, specialty features used in short spurts. Focus on how it can record unlimited in 4K Normal and Cropped modes, then expectations would have been managed. Imagine everyone thinking these would last only in 2-5 minute clips then be told, actually, you get 4K120 for 15 minutes! and 8K for 25 minutes! or whatever it is. The narrative is different at that point, and we don't see as much of this manufactured outrage.
As far as if we get a recall... I really have no clue what to expect. As an engineer, I don't know what feasible options could address the heat limitations outside of firmware. What could they possibly do from a physical standpoint that would fix or at least help? Someone mentioned maybe a 'newer' batch of sensors or processors will actually run cooler. I don't know, that seems crazy to release a camera then recall it to swap out sensors or processors. If there is some crazy easy fix, I am curious as to what it could be. The issue is internal heat. How to efficiently move heat inside the camera to the outside? Maybe there is somewhere in the body where they can install a heat conductive surface, which can then be accessed outside of the camera by contact? Then you can add whatever peltier cooling device on the outside to pull the heat out? I don't know. This is just wild to me.
From what I can tell, the issue with Codec's being difficult to work with is not that it's H.265. It has more to do with the Chroma format being 4.2.2. Current GPU's can work with H.265 it's just that they can work with 4.2.0 and even 4.4.4... but not 4.2.2. So that means it becomes something the Processor has to deal with. It sucks for the time being, but I'm sure GPU's will be able to handle it in the future. If you are having problems editing with it, looks like you'll have to transcode to a friendlier editing codec for the time being.
My last thought... I think Canon can absolutely silence the critics by just releasing a R5C. It's essentially an R5 that sacrifices weather sealing for active/passive cooling for unlimited recording times. Most of the tech is already there... its tweaking to the body. Also Eliminate the 29 minute record limit. Maybe develop a video oriented battery grip which adds a full size HDMI 2.1 port, maybe SDI. XLR inputs, D-Tap. Lol maybe the grip is a bit much, but I don't think it'd be hard to do that with the body. The vocal minority that make up the video shooter youtube community would lose their minds. I mean, I would too. 

Amazon says I'm getting my R5 between Aug 4-10. I guess I made the cut. Hope so.


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## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

crazyrunner33 said:


> I'm curious what the Sony's recovery time is given that it's more affected by ambient temperature and transferring heat from the sun.


I guess it greatly depends on the ambient temperature. And while it sucks that it overheated in 20-something minutes, at least it does not do so in all situations, which the R5 kinda does.
Also you do have an easier chance to remove the heat in an emergency (cold air, fridge) from the A7S3 compared to the sealed R5. I think I would prefer the magnesium allow body used as a heatsink at the cost of more environmental influence.

As a sidenote this was a very extreme test, he was measuring camera body temperatures of around 60°C. You would not be able to handhold that anymore without gloves.


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## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Which also overheats - sometimes faster than Canon.


Please, try reading the past few posts and try to see things a little more differentiatedly. Only because the Sony can be brought to overheat faster in a very specific, harsh test environment, does not mean it has generally more heat issues than the R5, which overheats even in AC environments.

This is what I mean with the lengths people go to. It does not matter what the Sony does in one specific test, for me it matters what the R5 does in 95% of the tests (aside from 4K30, line-skipped that likely looks worse than my cropped 5D4 1:1 readout).

Would have loved to test the R5 against my cameras, but I'll probably get it in a week or two according to my canon dealer.


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## navastronia (Jul 30, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> lol woke up to 10 pages of this. Disadvantage of my time zone I guess.
> 
> 
> The notion that the R5 is flawed stems from a super vocal minority. Yes we are more likely to get commentary from YouTube. Guess who YouTube consists of? They are video-centric creators. So of course they are latching onto the heat limiting time constraints of video recording. This has been exacerbated by the release of the Sony A7SIII which appears to have not much by way of limitations to its recording times. It very conveniently ignores what a nearly flawless stills camera the R5 is. And it pooh pooh's the paltry 12MP sensor, and pretty bad Sensor Stabilization. Yes I'm certain that the Karen's of the world are a minority even though it doesn't feel like that. That's because they happen to be screaming the loudest. Same for Video First YouTubers... and even worse if they happen to be Sony Fanboi's. Yeah... I just compared them to Karen's.
> ...



This is a very good post, especially what you say about how the camera has been marketed and how it could _have_ been marketed. Wish you worked at Canon!


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## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> lol woke up to 10 pages of this. Disadvantage of my time zone I guess.
> 
> 
> The notion that the R5 is flawed stems from a super vocal minority. Yes we are more likely to get commentary from YouTube. Guess who YouTube consists of? They are video-centric creators. So of course they are latching onto the heat limiting time constraints of video recording. This has been exacerbated by the release of the Sony A7SIII which appears to have not much by way of limitations to its recording times. It very conveniently ignores what a nearly flawless stills camera the R5 is. And it pooh pooh's the paltry 12MP sensor, and pretty bad Sensor Stabilization. Yes I'm certain that the Karen's of the world are a minority even though it doesn't feel like that. That's because they happen to be screaming the loudest. Same for Video First YouTubers... and even worse if they happen to be Sony Fanboi's. Yeah... I just compared them to Karen's.
> ...


From what I'm aware of, the 30 minute recording time has to do with a tax law classifying cameras that record over 29:59 as cinema cameras and have added tax to them, hence why they are limited and companies have cinema lines. They could remove the cap and just pay the tax, but they would either lose profit, or just pass it on to us and we pay more for a camera. That being said, some people say that that law was rolled back, but I'm not 100% sure?

Good thoughts overall.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> I have seen both his videos. My takeaway from this and other tests is that the Sony works a lot better in "normal" temperatures (unlimited), but at least the R5 does not degrade in direct sunlight. I sometimes do have daylight shoots in blazing sun, but my assumption from all the material I've seen is that the Sony would recovery a lot faster when put in a less strict environment temporarily (like half an hour indoors). The R5 even overheats in studio settings with AC on and takes sometimes up to two hours to recover fully.
> 
> I would not take this video and use it as an argument that the A7S3 overheats faster than the R5 in general. It does so in this, very specific test. And it was not tested how long each camera would take to recover in a normal climate, and how long you could shoot again after waiting e.g. 10 minutes.
> 
> Still, thanks though.


I wasn't using it as an argument for anything, I was merely adding data. You mentioned 4k60 and I had just watched the video in which he said he specifically ran the test in that resolution so thought it relevant. I have no doubt the Sony would be a better performing long form video capture device in most situations but it isn't without limits and in your chosen resolution might be incapable of filling your need. Mind you choose different resolutions and both cameras can effectively run continuously.

Having said that one question I have that nobody pointing to the Sony as a 'better' camera has yet answered, How long does the Sony α7S III shoot 8k before it overheats?


----------



## SteveC (Jul 30, 2020)

3serious said:


> Well, that's great. I ordered my R5 from Best Buy on 7/9 at 803AM, and they canceled my order without explanation on 7/27. Guess I will be getting it from a different company in November.



Shopping at Best Buy is its own punishment.


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> It's truly amazing what lengths people go through to convince everyone this camera is perfectly fine as it is, and Canon should not have done anything more to mitigate the constnt heat buildup somehow.
> Canon has marketed the movie modes heavily. From the original presentation in this order: 20 fps - AF - ISO 51k - 45MP - 4K120 - 8K
> 
> So yeah, it's on the feature list and some people would like it to work without three asterisks behind each video mode. To be clear, I do not expect this camera to work in 8k without limitations, that would be absurd. However shooting 4k you have the choice between 4k120, 4k60 and 4k30 HQ (which all overheat), and 4k30 either line-skipped or cropped, which each brings it's own problems. So your choice is either overheating modes or otherwise flawed modes. Not to mention the R6, which overheats in all 4K modes.



1) Yes. Canon oversold it. We all know now, knew before a single credit card was charged. The camera _is perfectly fine_. These are not mutually exclusive statements.

2) Every... Single... Body... In this class bins, skips or crops. No other body offers the options the R5 does. Stop the drama like it's some god damn Sophie's choice. 

3) The R6 overheating is a screwup and I ain't got nothing good to say there.

Yes, I am annoyed at Canon for the info drip drip drip on this one. We thought it was the jesuscam and it turns out it's _only_ the best high res hybrid body ever made. Woe woe woe onto us.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> The notion that the R5 is flawed stems from a super vocal minority. [...] It very conveniently ignores what a nearly flawless stills camera the R5 is. [...]


While certain people are quite loud regarding the video limitations, I am glad that they are. I don't think anyone is denying this is an amazing stills camera, and I'm looking forward to that part. However I need my cameras to fit multiple use cases and I cam glad that some people have done neutral tests regarding video recording. And the verdict ist that if you leave the camera on in any way, it eats into your recording time, and recovery times are a large issue. So I'm not sure why it's important that a vocal minority is leading this, when in this very specific case they're absolutely right.



> Imagine if they marketed the 8K and 4KHQ as 'burst mode only.'


The problems is 4K regular is line skipped, which is of lesser quality. Also 4K60 is kinda expected in this pricerange, and that overheats. I am not mad about 8K and 4K120 being specialty modes. But proper quality 4K30 and 4k60? Yeah, that'd actually be nice.



> What could they possibly do from a physical standpoint that would fix or at least help?


More aggressive power management in standby would help the silent heat buildup. Also any extra cooling in the form of copper or even heatpipes (they come in smartphones nowadays, should theoretically have been possible in a camera. Not sure about retrofit, that's going to be tough.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> The problems is 4K regular is line skipped, which is of lesser quality. Also 4K60 is kinda expected in this pricerange, and that overheats. I am not mad about 8K and 4K120 being specialty modes. But proper quality 4K30 and 4k60? Yeah, that'd actually be nice.



Price range, or class? In price range you've got lots of options. In terms of a high res camera... are there any?


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## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> 1) Yes. Canon oversold it. We all know now, knew before a single credit card was charged. The camera _is perfectly fine_. These are not mutually exclusive statements.
> 
> 2) Every... Single... Body... In this class bins, skips or crops. No other body offers the options the R5 does. Stop the drama like it's some god damn Sophie's choice.
> 
> 3) The R6 overheating is a screwup and I ain't got nothing good to say there.



See, and again valid criticism is brushed off as "how could you expect it to work like advertised, that's your fault".

Short round:
1) This is an argument pro Canon? I don't get it. It is not perfectly fine for video, and like it or not that's an important part of ILCs these days. 
2) It's not "drama", calling it "complaining about Sophie's choice" however is quite the dramatization. Not helping teh discussion in any way. And not every body in this class has not a single video mode without caveats. Also no other camera takes two hours to recover fully after a 30 minute shoot in 4k.



> Yes, I am annoyed at Canon for the info drip drip drip on this one. We thought it was the jesuscam and it turns out it's _only_ the best high res hybrid body ever made. Woe woe woe onto us.


Best hybrid body? Well, for photos: yes. For video: meh.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 30, 2020)

Krispy said:


> From what I'm aware of, the 30 minute recording time has to do with a tax law classifying cameras that record over 29:59 as cinema cameras and have added tax to them, hence why they are limited and companies have cinema lines. They could remove the cap and just pay the tax, but they would either lose profit, or just pass it on to us and we pay more for a camera. That being said, some people say that that law was rolled back, but I'm not 100% sure?
> 
> Good thoughts overall.



That's amusing if true, given how few takes longer than 29:59 there are in film!


----------



## Staz (Jul 30, 2020)

arthurbikemad said:


> I do feel this topic is kind of prodding my anxiety, I've been tweeting my dealer and said, for Gods sake, just let me know if I've made the cut......


Nah...missed the boat and I cancelled my pre order to let you have it too.


----------



## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

navastronia said:


> That's amusing if true, given how few takes longer than 29:59 there are in film!


You can google it and I think its primarily an EU law and the tax increase was like 5-12%. I know it's definitely a law and it existed. I'm not sure if it's still in effect though. That, I had tell me it got repealed a year ago. I use my atomos for continuous recordings, so it's not an issue I face.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> The problems is 4K regular is line skipped, which is of lesser quality. Also 4K60 is kinda expected in this pricerange, and that overheats. I am not mad about 8K and 4K120 being specialty modes. But proper quality 4K30 and 4k60? Yeah, that'd actually be nice.



I'm actually fine with the line skipped 4K. If its a tradeoff for unlimited recording peace of mind, I'm using it. I'm coming from FHD so I have no complaints. Also, I believe 80% of people won't be able to tell the difference. 20% will claim to see a difference. And only 5% will actually see the difference.

4K60 for full frame never existed before, so I wouldn't feel so entitled to expect it. In fact, Canon still is the only one that can do it. All others introduce some crop.


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

navastronia said:


> That's amusing if true, given how few takes longer than 29:59 there are in film!



It was a camcorder tax, and I think it was the EU only. And I also am under the impression it's gone. It was a nice way for canon/sony to get some air cover on recording limits. Now it's just inertia. Canon should absolutely throw us a firmware update that removes the limit.


----------



## bergstrom (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Seeing as how the first wave of shipments sailed without me onboard, that's exactly what I'm going to do.
> 
> Leave an order outstanding for months? I'd go nuts. Patience is not a character trait I'm familiar with.




well if your R6 burns out and they bring out an R6ii , you will be kicking yourself.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> 4K60 for full frame never existed before, so I wouldn't feel so entitled to expect it. In fact, Canon still is the only one that can do it. All others introduce some crop.


Again, "entitled"? Not helping with the antagonistic language.
Also I'm sorry, but have you missed the announcement of the A7S3? Also the 1DX Mark III can do it in 5.5k RAW or 4k DCI.

Clarification: Canon shooter for 11 years now. I'll not be switching to the new hottest trend from any manufacturer, I'm heavily invested in this system and I was hoping for less compromises this generation.
Again: R5 is preordered and should arrive soon and will be amazing or my photo work. Will it be amazing for my video work? Well, that's a resounding "we'll see".


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> See, and again valid criticism is brushed off as "how could you expect it to work like advertised, that's your fault".
> 
> Short round:
> 1) This is an argument pro Canon? I don't get it. It is not perfectly fine for video, and like it or not that's an important part of ILCs these days.
> ...



Look, If you're pissed, you're pissed [Edit: I'm pissed too!!] and who am I to tell anyone how they should feel. And it's not a pro-canon argument. I've got plenty of posts racked up over the last few days with the headline that Canon fucked up. "Canon promised me 8K and didn't deliver" is totally valid criticism. Full stop.

And "Canon doesn't offer anything like the A7SIII to sit along side my R5" is totally valid criticism of their lineup. The R6, priced $1000 less than the A7SIII ain't it. And DANG I wish they had an R5c with active cooling or a 5K sensor for oversampled goodness. Oh how sweet that'd be. Send all that energy into the universe for Canon to deliver it.

But, and here's the perspective that we've all let fly totally out the window, "Canon didn't deliver on something that no other camera in this class* has" just falls flat.

I've caught flak over the years for people talking about the canon nerf hammer and "marketing said no $feature_x" for you when what they meant to say is "Canon's engineering team has not come close to what the competition offers". This is lightyears beyond that. Canon fixed their DR and read noise problems. Canon fixed their sensor read problems (I have read that the R5 has a faster readout than the A7SIII when reading similar numbers of pixels, though at a DR cost). They fixed the COMICAL processing limitations that gave the 5D4 it's MJPEG codec. It FINALLY goes past Nikon and Sony.

It's a home run and I'm sorry that we were all looking for a grand slam 

Edit: Forgot to write the footnote for the asterisk. *Class = high resolution (we'll say 36 since that's where the A7RI landed) ILC with pro weather sealing. SH1 and A7S are priced near the R5, but they're not the same class of camera.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> Again, "entitled"? Not helping with the antagonistic language.
> Also I'm sorry, but have you missed the announcement of the A7S3? Also the 1DX Mark III can do it in 5.5k RAW or 4k DCI.
> 
> Clarification: Canon shooter for 11 years now. I'll not be switching to the new hottest trend from any manufacturer, I'm heavily invested in this system and I was hoping for less compromises this generation.
> Again: R5 is preordered and should arrive soon and will be amazing or my photo work. Will it be amazing for my video work? Well, that's a resounding "we'll see".


Sorry you took that as antagonistic. But it's true. Uncropped full frame 4K60p never existed before the 1DXIII... so I don't know how we can just expect it to be included like it's some normal feature. Maybe I shouldn't use the word "entitled" because some are easily triggered?


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> well if your R6 burns out and they bring out an R6ii , you will be kicking yourself.




I don't own an R6 I preordered an R5.

I won't suffer. It was a fun buy - not a must have. My 5D4, EOS-R and 7D2 will keep me happy regardless.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Look, If you're pissed, you're pissed and who am I to tell anyone how they should feel. And it's not a pro-canon argument. I've got plenty of posts racked up over the last few days with the headline that Canon fucked up. "Canon promised me 8K and didn't deliver" is totally valid criticism. Full stop.


I am not "pissed". I preordered the camera, I will use it for my photo work. Also again, my criticism is not "unlimited 8k". It's the continuous heat buildup even in non- or light use that will limit your regular recording times far more than on paper. It is completely possible to use the camera regularly and have "0 minutes" of 4K60 and waiting hours for it to recover. 



> And "Canon doesn't offer anything like the A7SIII to sit along side my R5" is totally valid criticism of their lineup. The R6, priced $1000 less than the A7SIII ain't it. And DANG I wish they had an R5c with active cooling or a 5K sensor for oversampled goodness. Oh how sweet that'd be. Send all that energy into the universe for Canon to deliver it.


Yeah, again not my criticism. 



> But, and here's the perspective that we've all let fly totally out the window. "Canon didn't deliver on something that no other camera in this class* has" just falls flat.


Well, it's a new camera that was advertised with groundbreaking video features. So I'm sorry if some people expected, you know, progress in technology.


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## Czardoom (Jul 30, 2020)

Here's what Canon should do. Inside every box of R5 and R6, they should include this letter:

Dear Canon customer. Thank you for your purchase. We hope the experience using this new camera is not spoiled by those that are flooding social media and internet forums with the news of our cameras overheating under certain video conditions. Considering heating issues have limited FF cameras when using video for many years, this is somewhat of a surprise to us, but - not really! Social media and internet sites have become dominated by those who have a limited ability to understand anything about cameras , and physics, and, well, just about anything. We thought it would be a good idea to actually document the limitations - unlike other brands that also have the same issues, but don't bother telling the consumer about them. Big mistake there! Better to be deceitful than up front with the information. We urge all of those users who are disappointed with the video capabilities of this camera, to please pass it along to someone who appreciates our latest advances, and understands that this is primarily a still oriented camera - as all of our 5 series and 6 series cameras have always been. Therefore size, weight, weather sealing and build quality take precedence. 

We realize that most of the complainers simply want the capabilities of a pro level video camera to be offered for a much lower price in a stills oriented camera. We regret that the selfishness of these users is causing distress in others. For this we apologize. You can be sure that we will no longer acknowledge that any heating limitations exist in our cameras moving forward.


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## Go Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> Sidenote: Most of my jobs require two bodies at least.
> 
> Right now the limitations with overheating on R5 and R6 are too much for me and what I do. I do agree they are great cameras spec wise, but the overheating time just doesn't work for me.



And sidenote from me: I work with one Sony Fs5 mkII, one Sony A7r3, one Canon 1dx mkII and one Canon EOS R! 

EOS R5 will allow me to "at least" sell the 1dxmkII and the Sony A7r3. And that´s something....To replace a more oriented high res camera and a more oriented speed camera in only one body! 

I tottaly agree with your evaluation! And that´s all about it, if the camera works or not for us! That´s the decision we just need to take! Unfortunately for the internet and most of Youtube reviewers it must be a winner and seems like it is mandatory that we have the best camera! That thing never going to happen! What is perfect for me simply doesn´t work for you and the beauty of this times is that we have so many amazing options!!  

Cheers


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Sorry you took that as antagonistic. But it's true. Uncropped full frame 4K60p never existed before the 1DXIII... so I don't know how we can just expect it to be included like it's some normal feature. Maybe I shouldn't use the word "entitled" because some are easily triggered?



And the 1DX3 is basically powered by a beast of a battery, has like 2-3x the volume, is only 20mp. And, uh, doesn't have autofocus at 60fps? It's a bit of an odd duck. (A very well armored odd duck)


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## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Here's what Canon should do. Inside every box of R5 and R6, they should include this letter:
> 
> Dear Canon customer. Thank you for your purchase. We hope the experience using this new camera is not spoiled by those that are flooding social media and internet forums with the news of our cameras overheating under certain video conditions. Considering heating issues have limited FF cameras when using video for many years, this is somewhat of a surprise to us, but - not really! Social media and internet sites have become dominated by those who have a limited ability to understand anything about cameras , and physics, and, well, just about anything. We thought it would be a good idea to actually document the limitations - unlike other brands that also have the same issues, but don't bother telling the consumer about them. Big mistake there! Better to be deceitful than up front with the information. We urge all of those users who are disappointed with the video capabilities of this camera, to please pass it along to someone who appreciates our latest advances, and understands that this is primarily a still oriented camera - as all of our 5 series and 6 series cameras have always been. Therefore size, weight, weather sealing and build quality take precedence.
> 
> We realize that most of the complainers simply want the capabilities of a pro level video camera to be offered for a much lower price in a stills oriented camera. We regret that the selfishness of these users is causing distress in others. For this we apologize. You can be sure that we will no longer acknowledge that any heating limitations exist in our cameras moving forward.



Be careful, YouTube will describe that letter as "kindling"

Better to provide an electronic copy (preferably on a 512 gig CFe card. That would definitely take some sting out)


----------



## bergstrom (Jul 30, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I don't own an R6 I preordered an R5.
> 
> I won't suffer. It was a fun buy - not a must have. My 5D4, EOS-R and 7D2 will keep me happy regardless.



oops well it applies to R5 as well, if they don't JUST bring out firmware but might either do a recall of some kind and do some physical fix to them, but who knows , time will tell.


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## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> oops well it applies to R5 as well, if they don't JUST bring out firmware but might either do a recall of some kind and do some physical fix to them, but who knows , time will tell.



For me it's more of a sit and wait deal - no thanks. When it comes out and is able to be ordered and received then I'll go then.

I missed the first wave so now have plenty of time to read more reviews and see real sample images.


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## jayphotoworks (Jul 30, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Well reasoned. I agree there will not be a problem for most users and use cases. The marketing should perhaps have been more cautious.
> 
> Not sure Canon, busy making great cameras, was prepared for the negative whiny world of youtube parasite do nothing reviewers and their dim-witted followers who eat up their conflict laden drivel. I am continually surprised at how low some of these reviewers will stoop, how large their egos, how gullible their audience is, and how they and their followers do almost everything on irrational emotion instead of thinking. It is truly sad that some of the most careless, abrasive, immature and just gross personalities are listened to by so many.
> 
> Canon probably thought the use case for high frame rate and high bit rate 4K modes and 8K would never be thought by anyone to be used for long form shooting. Enter a bunch of griping brand elitists and amateurs with unrealistic expectations and now there is an alleged fatal flaw in the product. Consumers have become dumb and spoiled, and the voice of un-reason is pandered to in the modern world, rather than ignored or refuted. It really is the most complex problem businesses face- how to please an increasingly whiny user base.



I'd like to make a counter-argument on this. While I mainly agree that "conflict laden drivel" seems to drive people nowadays, probably a byproduct of needing ad revenue, the result of such fervent personalities on Youtube and their commonly abrasive followers have allowed certain product flaws to be exposed and unfortunately sensationalized quite readily. Good and bad perspectives are expressed, and picked apart by people with all sorts of experiences and what not either against or for...

This is good in some ways. In itself, This has allowed a greater understanding of any product's pain points well ahead of the time I need to reach for my credit card. This saves me money because there is now an abundant amount of data to review. After watching a few A7S3 reviews that seem to not overheat and now 1 or 2 data points that say otherwise which many might consider an outlier, it may actually signal a product flaw not previously uncovered or maybe simply a defective unit or inconsistent testing methodology. If it's the latter, I may exclude that data point and any future data points from that source..

At the end of the day, the onus is on myself to pick which personalities, review sites, etc. affect my buying decisions amid the noise. I can't wish the noise away and if I want to leverage the wealth of data, I have to take out my earplugs.. DPR has long been criticized for being anti-Canon, and perhaps they have been, but their approach has generated plenty of revenue one way or another and since we can't just "erase" them out of existence, like DXO, the only thing we can do is convince others perhaps to take a more weighted approach instead of just taking the opinion of 1 or 2 data points or sensationalizing headlines. Expressing that DPR is bad, and Youtubers and followers are bad, etc. is simply too black and white. I feel your comment is more emotionally driven than what the reality is and the reality is much more nuanced than saying businesses have to cater to an increasingly whiny user base.

Also, as time passes, trends, fashion and tastes all change. People that were younger perhaps like us are now older, have more income, but are increasing less adaptable to change in society as we age, like pretty much every generation that precedes it. We may not like the way society is going represented in some micro-communities like this, etc. but since we have little power to influence the many, perhaps we would be better to see how to leverage what is in front of us.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 30, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> And the 1DX3 is basically powered by a beast of a battery, has like 2-3x the volume, is only 20mp. And, uh, doesn't have autofocus at 60fps? It's a bit of an odd duck. (A very well armored odd duck)


Oh you're right, forgot about the AF.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

I don't know if this video has been posted before, but it looks like a pretty good and unbiased assessment, which does show that this is a pretty major issue.






Sharing it because this guy seems to be a serious filmmaker and if you go back to the start and watch the video he was working on, it's pretty obvious he was not shooting excessively long takes, but was still having significant problems. 

I think stills people, like myself, need to look at this and take it into consideration before dismissing the concerns.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> I don't know if this video has been posted before, but it looks like a pretty good and unbiased assessment, which does show that this is a pretty major issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That video has been shared a lot, he also shoots very long form so is not, I suspect, Canon's intended user or market.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 30, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> Well, it's a new camera that was advertised with groundbreaking video features. So I'm sorry if some people expected, you know, progress in technology.



OK, so I get this. (And even if you're not pissed, I actually am). But here's really the only thing I'm trying to combat—sort of across the board. This is a case of expectations being set improperly. Not a case of the camera having unworkable video limits. Verbatim from twitter:



> Sony A7III for cheaper hybrid, Canon R6 for more expensive slightly more impressive hybrid, Sony a7s III for purely video (& fine for social pics etc), Canon R5 for photo (& fine for bursts of video)



So I see something like "not perfectly fine for video" and that's just a complicated statement. To me, and I'd guess a lot of people, it is perfectly fine for video. It'll shoot all the 4K you ever need it to shoot (well, up to 30min--sigh), and do it better than anything else with a 30+ mp sensor. But the narrative is like, "whoa you can't use the R5 for anything other than touch and go video." And you can. For any situation you'd feel comfortable using an R, a 5D4, an A7R4, a Z7, etc for. It's a hybrid ILC that punches at it weight class for video, with some interesting "sometimes" modes.

Apologies if you were feeling particularly called out here. I need to step away from this shit.


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## sanj (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> I don't know if this video has been posted before, but it looks like a pretty good and unbiased assessment, which does show that this is a pretty major issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is a 'serious filmmaker' with that lighting and correction?


----------



## Pixel (Jul 30, 2020)

If you didn’t get your R5 today, I got mine, Robert’s is expecting the next shipment in September.


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## Eclipsed (Jul 30, 2020)

I stand by my prediction that we won’t see an R5 in stock at retail or below at a major retailer until 2021.


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## Pixel (Jul 30, 2020)

HikeBike said:


> Oof. I wonder how fast the R6 sold out, and what that delay looks like.


It’s not selling as well according to my sources. The R5 preorders beat it in a landslide. One salesman I talked to said he hadn’t taken a single order for an R6 yet.


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## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That video has been shared a lot, he also shoots very long form so is not, I suspect, Canon's intended user or market.





sanj said:


> He is a 'serious filmmaker' with that lighting and correction?



Well, he was using a pre-production model of the R6, which means he had to have received it from Canon. I doubt Canon would have provided him with a pre-production model if they did not feel he was serious or that he was not their intended user or market. 

I'm as big of a Canon fanboy as anyone, but let's not be blind here. Canon is acknowledging problems and apparently working to fix them.I have no problem with people saying it won't be an issue for them. It would not be an issue for me. But, let's stop hating on people who have legitimate issues.


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## Pixel (Jul 30, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> I stand by my prediction that we won’t see an R5 in stock at retail or below at a major retailer until 2021.


My store said they could only fulfill one third of their R5 pre-orders today and the waiting list is only going to go up so you might be right that they won’t be on the shelves in stock for many months.


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## Eclipsed (Jul 30, 2020)

mb66energy said:


> I think it was fair that Canon released information about properties of their cameras (shortly) before it was available on the market.
> If I look at modern cinema movies I usuallly don't see scenes of more than 30 seconds. Using four EOS R5s there is a good chance not to overheat just at 8k.
> And 8k for vloggers who talk one hour? IMO FullHD is more than sufficient for that.
> Great to see that Canon wants to do something and will do - they want a 2nd "5D mark ii"-feeling
> ...



Most Hitchcock firms were normally edited. Rope was a novelty.


----------



## TomR (Jul 30, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Sorry you took that as antagonistic. But it's true. Uncropped full frame 4K60p never existed before the 1DXIII... so I don't know how we can just expect it to be included like it's some normal feature. Maybe I shouldn't use the word "entitled" because some are easily triggered?



Didn't exist? Are you insane?


----------



## gmail (Jul 30, 2020)

I hope the next announcement from Canon will be RF C250 FF with specs of R5 and sufficient cooling. This will bring most of video centric users to a higher price camera body, which is a win for Canon. I have been waiting for RF cine camera for 2 years now. Hybrid cameras don't make sense for either photographers or videographers. Just look at the useless audio memo button on R5 that can not be used in video mode and can not be reprogrammed to any video centric function. Canon just give us pure photo and video FF cameras and all will be at peace.


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## SteveC (Jul 30, 2020)

Well I just checked.

The R5 is NOT listed under refurbs, so no one has returned theirs yet.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 30, 2020)

TomR said:


> Didn't exist? Are you insane?


lol maybe I am. 

Help me out and name all the Uncropped. Full Frame Sensor. 4K60p... cameras.

edit: and bonus points if Auto Focus works.


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 30, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> I stand by my prediction that we won’t see an R5 in stock at retail or below at a major retailer until 2021.


you use cameras for Astrology too?


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## mppix (Jul 30, 2020)

After this video, I think they are going to recall this - overheated but cold surface really starts sounding like an engineering problem (lack of thermal conductance between components/processor and shell)


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## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Well, he was using a pre-production model of the R6, which means he had to have received it from Canon. I doubt Canon would have provided him with a pre-production model if they did not feel he was serious or that he was not their intended user or market.
> 
> I'm as big of a Canon fanboy as anyone, but let's not be blind here. Canon is acknowledging problems and apparently working to fix them.I have no problem with people saying it won't be an issue for them. It would not be an issue for me. But, let's stop hating on people who have legitimate issues.


Canon provided cinema5D with a review unit, they didn't necessarily know what was going to be done with it. I don't think many people would buy any stills orientated hybrid for serious long form video work, the video market is overflowing with cameras much better suited to his particular task and I do not think what he was doing is Canon's idea of a general user case use.

I might be labeled a fanboy, which is kinda funny because half the time I'm attacked by them, but I just don't see his use as typical, heck there are countless posters who say they have never used the video on cameras they have owned for years. I believe we are at a point where video centric users are going to have to make serious decisions on what they want and how much they are going to pay for it. To me it sounds like a photographer moaning that paint brushes don't do the job they need, well that's because they aren't the tool for the job. Yes Canon sell it as a hybrid, but it is a photo centric hybrid and a compromised video tool so as a videographer either accept those compromises or buy something else.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 30, 2020)

I'm not understanding how, according to Canon, the "magnesium alloy" is helping with cooling. 

If the Canon is better than sony when already in a hot environment, because it is said to keep the outside heat out instead of getting in the camera, how can it let (dissipate) the hot air generated by the camera out?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Well I just checked.
> 
> The R5 is NOT listed under refurbs, so no one has returned theirs yet.


They will, and they'll make a lot of noise about it.


----------



## TracerHD (Jul 30, 2020)

I canceld my R5 preorder + 2 lenses and grip today because of getting so hot at stills shooting that video is only able at low res 4k 30p. I don't care about video. I get unsure because of this if the electronics lives 2 years by that way. For me it's not worth it to find out.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 30, 2020)

mppix said:


> After this video, I think they are going to recall this - overheated but cold surface really starts sounding like an engineering problem (lack of thermal conductance between components/processor and shell)


I saw the video too, and think there's credence to what he says about the the firmware being time limited and not temperature limited. Still not sure what realistic options there are for a physical solution there would be outside of drilling a hole and sticking a removable rubber gasket seal on it. But if it is actually still cool to the touch, maybe it is true that it is conservatively protecting the camera, and firmware may be able to take the limiters off of it.


----------



## TomR (Jul 30, 2020)

Th


mppix said:


> After this video, I think they are going to recall this - overheated but cold surface really starts sounding like an engineering problem (lack of thermal conductance between components/processor and shell)



The most noteworthy thing about this video is that he didn't even use ibis or auto focus and he didn't shoot video or still. He just had the camera on and it overheated when he was ready to roll.

This camera is dead on arrival, anyone who can't see that is in denial or flat out delusional at this point.


----------



## quilatoo (Jul 30, 2020)

I likely wasn't going to pick up the R5 until the new year anyway but even as an exclusively stills shooter I am put off by the significant cost of the R5 for OTT video specs (I get that there's no way Canon or anyone else are going to sell a non-hybrid stills camera in this day and age) that might have resulted in a bit of a dodgy all round product. Overheating issues in 8K shouldn't affect me but I'm definitely concerned about any similar potential issues that might crop up from just extensive use of the camera even just doing regular photography.

Even without the heating issues my main concern is the ease of adapting existing EF lenses and getting the most out of the camera, especially third-party lenses that make up the bulk of my collection. I didn't realise the 12 fps burst mode was only available with RF and select Canon EF lenses, so it looks like I would to be mostly limited to 8 fps. Granted that, the AF, and IBIS are all an obvious improvement over my 5D Mark iii, but still! £4,200 is a lot of money, without taking into account a £100-200 adapter, CF card, extra batteries, and potentially RF lenses to make the most out of the thing.

I'm hoping there's a decent-ish price drop in the next six months but I may honestly wait until the likes of Sigma and Tamron release RF lenses so I can swap out my current kit like for like.


----------



## fentiger (Jul 30, 2020)

Max C said:


> They thought the 8k gimmick would gloss over the cracks, also they are relying on all their loyalist customers to defend them no matter what problems the product has, also they are aware that many people are trapped behind thousands of dollars of great EF glass already owned. They also thought they had the best looking girl at the dance, but then Sony and the A7sIII walked through door.


and then sony girl smiled, there was 6 teeth missing


----------



## DaveGrice (Jul 30, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> the conversations going on in Canon engineering must be interesting.



I'd wager that most of them start with "Told you..."


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 30, 2020)

Gerald Undone is sort of confirming live that 4K60p external can be used long form on the R5.

Only 8K and 4K30HQ will overheat using an external recorder.


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 30, 2020)

TracerHD said:


> I canceld my R5 preorder + 2 lenses and grip today because of getting so hot at stills shooting that video is only able at low res 4k 30p. I don't care about video. I get unsure because of this if the electronics lives 2 years by that way. For me it's not worth it to find out.


I think the R and RP and probably a lot of the Canon mirror cameras all will get just as hot as the R5 when doing only photos. It's just that no one paid attention to it till now with the R5/R6 release. Someone mentioned that the R manual also stated the same heating issues with photos only.

IBIS is new now for Canon, so maybe that is causing more heat in these models?
But that can be turned off.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 30, 2020)

TomR said:


> Th
> 
> 
> The most noteworthy thing about this video is that he didn't even use ibis or auto focus and he didn't shoot video or still. He just had the camera on and it overheated when he was ready to roll.
> ...




I just want to us 1080...


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 30, 2020)

DaveGrice said:


> I'd wager that most of them start with "Told you..."



no, they all probably got fired, so instead they're saying: "we should've listened to them"


----------



## Krispy (Jul 30, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I think the R and RP and probably a lot of the Canon mirror cameras all will get just as hot as the R5 when doing only photos. It's just that no one paid attention to it till now with the R5/R6 release. Someone mentioned that the R manual also stated the same heating issues with photos only.
> 
> IBIS is new now for Canon, so maybe that is causing more heat in these models?
> But that can be turned off.



I bought an R to try out and used on a wedding shoot once. It lacked a lot of what I needed but I tested it out to see if Canon was going in the right direction. The thing overheated on me as it was recording 4k in direct sunlight. Not the best conditions in mid October, but it did happen. Returned it a week later since I knew a "pro" mirrorless was on the way, according to rumors.


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## sanj (Jul 30, 2020)

mppix said:


> After this video, I think they are going to recall this - overheated but cold surface really starts sounding like an engineering problem (lack of thermal conductance between components/processor and shell)


Bad. This is bad. For people who want the higher video options.


----------



## Pixel (Jul 30, 2020)

I can’t find any documentation about burst shooting rates and “select EF lenses.”
Can anybody point me to such documentation?


----------



## Jethro (Jul 30, 2020)

I mean, my sadness about this is less about the current time/heat limits on particular video settings, and mainly that the first tranche of real-life production model reviews (which I've really been looking forward to) are now going to be all about torture testing those video settings to get the camera to (or appear to) fail.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 30, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Canon provided cinema5D with a review unit, they didn't necessarily know what was going to be done with it. I don't think many people would buy any stills orientated hybrid for serious long form video work, the video market is overflowing with cameras much better suited to his particular task and I do not think what he was doing is Canon's idea of a general user case use.
> 
> I might be labeled a fanboy, which is kinda funny because half the time I'm attacked by them, but I just don't see his use as typical, heck there are countless posters who say they have never used the video on cameras they have owned for years. I believe we are at a point where video centric users are going to have to make serious decisions on what they want and how much they are going to pay for it. To me it sounds like a photographer moaning that paint brushes don't do the job they need, well that's because they aren't the tool for the job. Yes Canon sell it as a hybrid, but it is a photo centric hybrid and a compromised video tool so as a videographer either accept those compromises or buy something else.



Sure Canon knew what Johnnie was going to do with it, exactly what he does with every camera, the examples are there for every camera he tests.

Johnnie's been slated lately for *NOT* putting a stopwatch on the camera. He simply made one of his excellent min-documentaries with it. Then reported back, as he always does.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 30, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Sure Canon knew what Johnnie was going to do with it, exactly what he does with every camera, the examples are there for every camera he tests.
> 
> Johnnie's been slated lately for *NOT* putting a stopwatch on the camera. He simply made one of his excellent min-documentaries with it. Then reported back, as he always does.


Well yes being a tester and not actually testing it, that is recording any useful data about use, isn't really any kind of a test by the very meaning of the word. But semantics and what Canon knew, intimated, understood or not aside, do you believe his use,_ 'high end mini documentaries filmed in long form'_ is typical user case use? I don't.

I'm not saying the camera or Canon are the best, infallible, or anything like it, what I am saying is is this a result general users are going to get in more normal and expected use cases? I do not believe so but if they do Canon deserve the outcry, if they don't this is all bullshit.


----------



## kimster (Jul 30, 2020)

I went out for a walk at lunchtime with my R5 and 70-200. I got some amazing pictures of BIF with the eye detect AF. If it can't find the eye it will track the bird's head and then the body. It's crazy. Crazy good. I will try my EF 100-400 and adapter at the weekend with more birds at the beach.
It may be everything I need. I never used the video features on my 5D. I would like to see a poll of how many people buying this camera regularly use video. I understand wedding photographers will use video.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 30, 2020)

kimster said:


> I went out for a walk at lunchtime with my R5 and 70-200. I got some amazing pictures of BIF with the eye detect AF. If it can't find the eye it will track the bird's head and then the body. It's crazy. Crazy good. I will try my EF 100-400 and adapter at the weekend with more birds at the beach.
> It may be everything I need. I never used the video features on my 5D. I would like to see a poll of how many people buying this camera regularly use video. I understand wedding photographers will use video.



I want to see these pictures please (you can be first in the BIF forum), and I’m very curious to hear about the 100-400L performance..


----------



## Dantana (Jul 31, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> But you both miss the point that the temperature control starts the second the camera is turned on not when the record button is pushed, and in a production environment that can easily be 15/20minutes before 'action'. I think we are all in agreement though, nobody should be looking at the R5 to shoot their next big production or long form video, that is not what it was designed to do.


I didn't know that. Yeah, that would be a problem.


----------



## kimster (Jul 31, 2020)

sanj said:


> Bad. This is bad. For people who want the higher video options.


They might recall the camera if they had marketed it to cinematographers or movie studios. The big mistake they made was emphasizing the 8K. I think the marketing guys should be given their sandwiches and shown the door, not the engineers. There is only so much you can do without fans and openings in the body. They would have run thermal simulations and knew exactly what the heat dissipation would be.


----------



## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

kimster said:


> They might recall the camera if they had marketed it to cinematographers or movie studios. The big mistake they made was emphasizing the 8K. I think the marketing guys should be given their sandwiches and shown the door, not the engineers. There is only so much you can do without fans and openings in the body. They would have run thermal simulations and knew exactly what the heat dissipation would be.


True. I just got my hands on one and it's sitting on my desk. Letting the battery charge so I can see the battery life as opposed to the old LP E6's. The killer for me would be how long I have to record until it over heats in some of the modes and the recovery time. I have a month to run tests and decide to keep or return it before then. Still waiting on my mini hdmi to hdmi to connect my atomos to it.


----------



## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I saw the video too, and think there's credence to what he says about the the firmware being time limited and not temperature limited. Still not sure what realistic options there are for a physical solution there would be outside of drilling a hole and sticking a removable rubber gasket seal on it. But if it is actually still cool to the touch, maybe it is true that it is conservatively protecting the camera, and firmware may be able to take the limiters off of it.



I see two options:
(1) The processor (the most likely internal component to overheat) is typically connected with a thermal pad+heatsink to the cooling surface (body). It is possible that the thermal pads are either not in spec or assemply tolerances introduce unacceptable thermal resistances.
(2) Canon underdesigned the internal heat path from processor to body, i.e. the thermal resistance between processor and body is too high by design.

Neither are inherent problems with the camera. They can be fixed with hardware but not in software. The first requires replacement of the thermal interface material. The second requires a bigger internal heatsink/heatspreader.


----------



## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

kimster said:


> They might recall the camera if they had marketed it to cinematographers or movie studios. The big mistake they made was emphasizing the 8K. I think the marketing guys should be given their sandwiches and shown the door, not the engineers. There is only so much you can do without fans and openings in the body. They would have run thermal simulations and knew exactly what the heat dissipation would be.


It seems the camera overheats without the body getting hot. This is either a manufacturing problem or a design problem (both engineering).
However, I agree that Canon marketing is not looking that good here.


----------



## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

TomR said:


> The most noteworthy thing about this video is that he didn't even use ibis or auto focus and he didn't shoot video or still. He just had the camera on and it overheated when he was ready to roll.
> 
> This camera is dead on arrival, anyone who can't see that is in denial or flat out delusional at this point.



Please stop to troll.

Many, if not most people here, care about stills before video. This is an excellent camera for stills.

I posted this video because the behavior described points towards a manufacturing or design problem that CAN be addressed. Considering Canons track record, we can also place some confidence that this will be addressed in one form or another.


----------



## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I think the R and RP and probably a lot of the Canon mirror cameras all will get just as hot as the R5 when doing only photos. It's just that no one paid attention to it till now with the R5/R6 release. Someone mentioned that the R manual also stated the same heating issues with photos only.
> 
> IBIS is new now for Canon, so maybe that is causing more heat in these models?
> But that can be turned off.



Unlikely, evidence points towards an inadequate thermal interface between the hottest parts (likely microprocessor) and the heatsink (body).
Camera overheats but the body is cold = there is a layer between body and internal components that act as an insulator. This explains also why the bodies take so long to recover after overheating.


----------



## dominic_siu (Jul 31, 2020)

I got my R5 yesterday and shooting with it already, AF is far better than R and tried to shoot H+ burst, it’s just FAST.


----------



## DBounce (Jul 31, 2020)

Well I just shot some hand held video with the R5 and to my eyes the video in normal 4k looks cleaner than my Eos R in 4K. This is without a doubt the best mirrorless camera that I have used to date... by a huge margin. Colors straight out of camera look fantastic. Finally my collection of RF glass is justified.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 31, 2020)

mppix said:


> Unlikely, evidence points towards an inadequate thermal interface between the hottest parts (likely microprocessor) and the heatsink (body).
> Camera overheats but the body is cold = there is a layer between body and internal components that act as an insulator. This explains also why the bodies take so long to recover after overheating.



I'm not disagreeing about the inadequate thermal interface.
My point is for photography only, there is probably no difference in heating concerns between the R and R5 because the thermal interface is the same. So him returning it when he only does photography should not be concern.

But, having to process more jobs like IBIS will cause more heat than with IBIS not there or turned off.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

dominic_siu said:


> I got my R5 yesterday and shooting with it already, AF is far better than R and tried to shoot H+ burst, it’s just FAST.



Pics or it didn’t happen...


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 31, 2020)

mangobutter said:


> Maybe Canon will disable or limit some of the computational features going on during photo and/or video record. From what I understand the new bodies get hot when doing photos alone as the processors are really working overtime doing all the real time scene/face/eye recognition. Apparently the algorithm was done to search for and/or track many objects besides just human faces/eyes/animal faces/animal eyes.
> 
> If it's doing all this in video too, it could be a good thing to have the option at least to use a more basic form of tracking. Maybe a lowered bit rate too, or at least the option to.
> 
> ...


I believe that a new grip that includes additional heatsink abilities via heatpipe would be a relatively simple solution. 2 batteries for a fan or peltier solution to avoid vibration inside the main body. Additional 5GHz wifi might not be needed but use ethernet instead of HDMI 2.1 for external recorders.
Charge USD500 for it and videographers would think that it is a bargain!


----------



## dtaylor (Jul 31, 2020)

mppix said:


> Unlikely, evidence points towards an inadequate thermal interface between the hottest parts (likely microprocessor) and the heatsink (body).
> Camera overheats but the body is cold = there is a layer between body and internal components that act as an insulator. This explains also why the bodies take so long to recover after overheating.



Perhaps that's good news? It would have been best for the cameras to not ship with this issue. But if the issue is a thermal interface maybe it's a relatively simple fix and recall. Something roughly equivalent to changing the thermal paste on a computer heatsink, or swapping out one material for another in a piece near the processor.


----------



## boyluck04 (Jul 31, 2020)

What's next for the Canon R5 & R6? That's Canon RP Mark II


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Well yes being a tester and not actually testing it, that is recording any useful data about use, isn't really any kind of a test by the very meaning of the word. But semantics and what Canon knew, intimated, understood or not aside, do you believe his use,_ 'high end mini documentaries filmed in long form'_ is typical user case use? I don't.
> 
> I'm not saying the camera or Canon are the best, infallible, or anything like it, what I am saying is is this a result general users are going to get in more normal and expected use cases? I do not believe so but if they do Canon deserve the outcry, if they don't this is all bullshit.



Read Johnnies comments on this, he said, they *Cinema5D* DO NOT do lab tests on pre-production cameras, as hardware AND firmware MAY not be final with this pre-production sample. I'd say that's more sane than putting lab equipment on it right now, and instantly writing it off.

Would you disagree with that approach?

Personally, I read Johnnie's analysis, and decided to wait and see what Canon do going forward.

On a side note, the Sony's went through exactly the same teething issues when they went 4K, that boiled down to a simple firmware *adjustment* (we think). 

I'm still hopeful for the R5, it'd make for a better camera *for my needs* than the A7Slll.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Well I just shot some hand held video with the R5 and to my eyes the video in normal 4k looks cleaner than my Eos R in 4K. This is without a doubt the best mirrorless camera that I have used to date... by a huge margin. Colors straight out of camera look fantastic. Finally my collection of RF glass is justified.



Can you answer me a question about the R5. When the camera is powered OFF, does the IBIS *park & lock* or does it rattle around like my Sony's? To my knowledge, only Nikon's Z parks and locks when powered OFF. Thanks!


----------



## TomR (Jul 31, 2020)

boyluck04 said:


> What does that mean? FTFY
> 
> I don't really understand



Fixed that for you


----------



## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I'm not disagreeing about the inadequate thermal interface.
> My point is for photography only, there is probably no difference in heating concerns between the R and R5 because the thermal interface is the same. So him returning it when he only does photography should not be concern.
> 
> But, having to process more jobs like IBIS will cause more heat than with IBIS not there or turned off.



I see and definitely agreed on the photography part.

.. I don't think the heat generated by IBIS system itself is a significant problem (motors etc are efficient). However with IBIS, the sensor needs to be floating and low weight (= not attached to any heatsink). If the sensor (as opposed to the more likely microprocessor) is overheating, we are out of luck.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 31, 2020)

I wonder why this so called review is so popular here. Mac/PC price tags are not tech specs. In terms of the performance, you don't do production on a $4000 laptop, you do production on say quad-core CPU, 32G RAM, 2Tb SSD etc. Or lower. He should analyse and compare the technical h/w specs. To start with there was a glimpse of only 16Gb RAM in one of the devices, it doesn't seem to be enough.



DylanC said:


> Source:


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## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Perhaps that's good news? It would have been best for the cameras to not ship with this issue. But if the issue is a thermal interface maybe it's a relatively simple fix and recall. Something roughly equivalent to changing the thermal paste on a computer heatsink, or swapping out one material for another in a piece near the processor.


I think so. I am cautiously optimistic that a reasonable fix can be implemented by Canon. In fact, there seem to mild signs that they are up to something..
Quote form EOSHD: "Another source I asked actually works for Canon. They are saying that up and down the chain of feedback and professional testers including Canon ambassadors the problem of overheating in video mode was played down or not even reported."




__





Will Canon recall the EOS R5? I asked retailers today, and the picture is grim – EOSHD.com – Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews







www.eoshd.com


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

mppix said:


> I am cautiously optimistic that a reasonable fix can be implemented before a mkII version. There seem to mild signs that Canon is in doing something..
> Quote form EOSHD: "Another source I asked actually works for Canon. They are saying that up and down the chain of feedback and professional testers including Canon ambassadors the problem of overheating in video mode was played down or not even reported."
> 
> 
> ...



It's kinda sad out here, a whole industry (and sponsored gravy train) has sprung up around *testing/testers/ambassadors/etc* -- objectivity plus real world feedback has gone out the window.

None wants to bite the hand that feeds them, it appears.

Try getting an honest public critique from some of these *in house* alpha and beta testers.......

I kept looking at the upside down SONY logo on the long awaited A7Rlll flip-out screen, and that low resolution menu font on the long awaited menu update, and thinking, "surely someone said something, that shouldn't be like that."


----------



## Fast351 (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> It’s not selling as well according to my sources. The R5 preorders beat it in a landslide. One salesman I talked to said he hadn’t taken a single order for an R6 yet.



Good news for those of us that preordered


----------



## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

mppix said:


> I think so. I am cautiously optimistic that a reasonable fix can be implemented by Canon. In fact, there seem to mild signs that they are up to something..
> Quote form EOSHD: "Another source I asked actually works for Canon. They are saying that up and down the chain of feedback and professional testers including Canon ambassadors the problem of overheating in video mode was played down or not even reported."
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm. That’s promising and also scary at the same time.
I have an R5 sitting on my desk. Testing time. We’ll see what Canon’s move is. They have to make an announcement sooner rather than later.


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> I can’t find any documentation about burst shooting rates and “select EF lenses.”
> Can anybody point me to such documentation?


+1

or can anyone with an r5/6 with some ef lenses test and let us know please. Thanks!


----------



## JoTomOz (Jul 31, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> +1
> 
> or can anyone with an r5/6 with some ef lenses test and let us know please. Thanks!


Pg 896-897 of user guide has a table of EF lenses that are supported for 12 FPS mechanical.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Hmmm. That’s promising and also scary at the same time.
> I have an R5 sitting on my desk. Testing time. We’ll see what Canon’s move is. They have to make an announcement sooner rather than later.



Krispy, does the R5 IBIS rattle when the camera is powered OFF? Thanks!


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Hmmm. That’s promising and also scary at the same time.
> I have an R5 sitting on my desk. Testing time. We’ll see what Canon’s move is. They have to make an announcement sooner rather than later.



I feel like Andy at EOSHD is off the rails. He was really hard on the A7SIII compared to the essentially glowing reviews of it as the perfect 4K camera by some pretty serious reviewers. He also neglected to mention in the stock discussion that the entire asian supply chain was disrupted Dec-April.

I would love to believe that there's a recall coming and that Canon has a quick fix for shipped bodies to enable 8K recording for hours and hours but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Krispy, does the R5 IBIS rattle when the camera is powered OFF? Thanks!


 You can feel a slight shake/ bump when moving it around in your hand without a lens. If you move it around fast enough, you can hear it move


----------



## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I feel like Andy at EOSHD is off the rails. He was really hard on the A7SIII compared to the essentially glowing reviews of it as the perfect 4K camera by some pretty serious reviewers. He also neglected to mention in the stock discussion that the entire asian supply chain was disrupted Dec-April.
> 
> I would love to believe that there's a recall coming and that Canon has a quick fix for shipped bodies to enable 8K recording for hours and hours but I'm not holding my breath.


Yeah, I dont know what to expect and have never preordered a camera(always waited 4-6months after release) but I was so hyped for a pro mirrorless for the last year, so don’t know if they ever have done something like that. I do have a canon center 30-ish minutes near me through LA traffic so it wouldn’t be THAT big a deal. BH refund policy is a month if I’m THAT shaken though. We’ll see. Just gotta run testing


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 31, 2020)

mppix said:


> I think so. I am cautiously optimistic that a reasonable fix can be implemented by Canon. In fact, there seem to mild signs that they are up to something..
> Quote form EOSHD:



These guys have been calling for a recall for quite a while and I see some sensationalism there. 

I don't think it's possible to do a quick fix for overheating (even with a 3-4 months delay). Any recall or fix will be minor and related to an unexpected malfunction, such as excessive overheating in some items, that is, overheating worse than in the Canon specs.

Say installing a larger heatsink means the IBIS module becomes heavier - this may affect IBIS and battery life. If Canon does something like that, it won't significantly improve on the overheating problem. 

Personally I'd just like to get the camera faster, I shoot very little casual video and don't really care.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Read Johnnies comments on this, he said, they *Cinema5D* DO NOT do lab tests on pre-production cameras, as hardware AND firmware MAY not be final with this pre-production sample. I'd say that's more sane than putting lab equipment on it right now, and instantly writing it off.
> 
> Would you disagree with that approach?
> 
> ...


I 100% disagree with that approach. Dan Watson struck a very sensible middle ground with a clock and a thermometer, hardly lab grad tech equipment. Further when Dan was called out on his results he answered them and retested taking some comments on board.

Saying, this doesn’t work for me is a legitimate conclusion for any user, owner, or tester, not giving specifics of your use, and cinema5D did not, means a prospective buyer can’t gauge their intended use against it. What is the point of the cinema5D not review, not test? How did it help and inform customer choice? if as a company you don’t want to ‘test’ pre production equipment then don’t come out with unspecific and non helpful conclusions about that non test.


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## PhotoGenerous (Jul 31, 2020)

I hate this... I was so motivated to sell a lot of my EF gear to help fund switching to the RF mount. But if they give me so much more time to save up money I might lose my resolve!

Also, of course I'm curious to see if a recall actually happens and to learn what that actually means. When I first read the headlines (on some other site or in my feed or something), I immediately thought it was just some fearmongering and/or Canon's marketing reacting to the reactions online, but then I saw the source was canonrumors and not just some random clickbait article.

Would it be as simple as Canon upgrading all the firmware, knowing that a lot of people probably wouldn't update it if they had to do it themselves, and that would lead to more complaints and R5 bashing videos despite a fix/improvement in place? A customer service/marketing/software move? Or will there be an actual hardware change?

My new RF lenses will just have to sit there and wait a bit longer before they can get some use.


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## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Can you answer me a question about the R5. When the camera is powered OFF, does the IBIS *park & lock* or does it rattle around like my Sony's? To my knowledge, only Nikon's Z parks and locks when powered OFF. Thanks!



I’m hearing there’s a rattle.

See what I did there?


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I’m hearing there’s a rattle.
> 
> See what I did there?


Can confirm rattle


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## Mr Majestyk (Jul 31, 2020)

Yes it does not pay to be an early adapter. I will only buy a version that has improvements in place for heat mitigation. If it means a 4 month delay I couldn't care less, I had no intention of getting one this year, so hopefully early next year supply will be decent and thermal limits improved maybe a new vented body.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 31, 2020)

Wow looks hot!!
I'm jealous because I also preordered but didn't get the first batch and will have to wait till late October. I see the EF 24-70, same set I would have had. Congrats 



Krispy said:


> Yeah, I dont know what to expect and have never preordered a camera(always waited 4-6months after release) but I was so hyped for a pro mirrorless for the last year, so don’t know if they ever have done something like that. I do have a canon center 30-ish minutes near me through LA traffic so it wouldn’t be THAT big a deal. BH refund policy is a month if I’m THAT shaken though. We’ll see. Just gotta run testing
> View attachment 191693


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Wow looks hot!!
> I'm jealous because I also preordered but didn't get the first batch and will have to wait till late October. I see the EF 24-70, same set I would have had. Congrats


I have several EF lenses, no RF lenses though. The 24-70 is just a good lens all around


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## marathonman (Jul 31, 2020)

R5 is phenomenal. If you are a stills photographer, my guess is you will love it. I was most concerned about the EVF but I'm happy to say it is really good. I don't have any RF lenses (had planned to get some), but the focus seems more precise and quicker with EF lenses than on EOS R. Everything just feels more "snappy" e.g. AF, EVF, menus etc. The IBIS is as good as you have seen / read about. Feels good / natural in the hand. I also have EOS 1DX mkiii and I'm starting to question why I need that.... I thought I would miss the GPS, but connecting via BT to phone tags the images with GPS data and seems seamless. Even the iPhone app seems to be more rapid with the R5 connected to it.


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## briangus (Jul 31, 2020)

First world problems much!!
Canon Thailand still don't have a price far less a launch date.
They have been promoting it heavily but only the 24-105 f4-7.1 is available
If enough of you guys spit the dummy and cancel we might get some down here


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## David - Sydney (Jul 31, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> Pg 896-897 of user guide has a table of EF lenses that are supported for 12 FPS mechanical.


includes all my EF lenses except... EF100mm macro. A bit of a surprise for me although I wouldn't normally shoot high speed burst with it.


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 31, 2020)

mppix said:


> I see and definitely agreed on the photography part.
> 
> .. I don't think the heat generated by IBIS system itself is a significant problem (motors etc are efficient). However *with IBIS, the sensor needs to be floating and low weight (= not attached to any heatsink*). If the sensor (as opposed to the more likely microprocessor) is overheating, we are out of luck.



Right, that is what I was thinking but you were able to explain it better.


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> I have several EF lenses, no RF lenses though. The 24-70 is just a good lens all around



For video, that EOS to RF adapter, the one with the drop-in ND filter looks very cool, no issues with lens swaps/filter swaps-- same filter, and the big plus, its another dust barrier between sensor and dust. Sony just implemented the Canon *shutter close with lens change* trick on the A9ll, but no mention if its on the A7Slll.


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## DBounce (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Can you answer me a question about the R5. When the camera is powered OFF, does the IBIS *park & lock* or does it rattle around like my Sony's? To my knowledge, only Nikon's Z parks and locks when powered OFF. Thanks!


With the cameras off I can hear something move but I wouldn’t say it’s rattling. Imo it’s similar to the Z6 I had.


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## cornieleous (Jul 31, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I feel like Andy at EOSHD is off the rails. He was really hard on the A7SIII compared to the essentially glowing reviews of it as the perfect 4K camera by some pretty serious reviewers. He also neglected to mention in the stock discussion that the entire asian supply chain was disrupted Dec-April.



That guy seems like he has a giant ego well beyond his skills and is just ranting and bashing everything. A poster in his forum intelligently and respectfully disagreed with one of his points and he said "don't agitate me again or I'll ban you" totally out of line. He strikes me as an unstable nutjob. That was my first and last read on his site. Too many like him unfortunately with huge followings of people easily influenced into this brand religious nonsense and the current trend of customers are owed everything for low low prices.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> For video, that EOS to RF adapter, the one with the drop-in ND filter looks very cool, no issues with lens swaps/filter swaps-- same filter, and the big plus, its another dust barrier between sensor and dust. Sony just implemented the Canon *shutter close with lens change* trick on the A9ll, but no mention if its on the A7Slll.


Yeah, the $400 one. I thought about getting it in October last year, but I kept seeing Vignetting and other artifacts in tests. I got the control ring adapter.


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## cornieleous (Jul 31, 2020)

DBounce said:


> With the cameras off I can hear something move but I wouldn’t say it’s rattling. Imo it’s similar to the Z6 I had.


I hear a very slight click, not a rattle, only if you move the camera hard in one direction - small movements nothing moves in there. The sensor must float for IBIS to work, and the suspension is not powered and locked when off, so don't think anyone can make these perfectly immobile when un-powered but I don't really know that for sure.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

Ran outside and got what I could from my hellspawn before light was out and he ran.


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

DBounce said:


> With the cameras off I can hear something move but I wouldn’t say it’s rattling. Imo it’s similar to the Z6 I had.



Thanks!

The Sony's have a definite CLUNK when shaken/vibrated. I spend a lot of time with mine in a light shoulder bag (read: no padding) and it becomes a distraction when out on a quiet jaunt.


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I hear a very slight click, not a rattle, only if you move the camera hard in one direction - small movements nothing moves in there. The sensor must float for IBIS to work, and the suspension is not powered and locked when off, so don't think anyone can make these perfectly immobile when un-powered but I don't really know that for sure.



Check out the Z's. They advertise, *Park and Lock* my friend assures me they do, but I've yet to shake one in anger. 

The Canon IBIS looks superb in action though, very smooth when walking/moving with the camera, those stabilized zooms look just the ticket. I wonder if they combined with IBIS = 8.5 stops, or if JUST the IBIS is 8.5 stops? Either way, brilliant looking results.


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## snappy604 (Jul 31, 2020)

those of you getting your R5s (congrats, envious)... was just watching Northup's comparison of image quality vs A7R 4 and 5D Mk4.. seems quite good on image quality and he went on about the differences between electronic vs mechanical and the banding involved.. I believe I read that there are at least 2 modes for electronic.. he seemed focused on the 20 fps.. anyone know if the 12 fps essentially reduces the banding like the mechanical shutter? the silent option even at a lower fps would be useful at times.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> those of you getting your R5s (congrats, envious)... was just watching Northup's comparison of image quality vs A7R 4 and 5D Mk4.. seems quite good on image quality and he went on about the differences between electronic vs mechanical and the banding involved.. I believe I read that there are at least 2 modes for electronic.. he seemed focused on the 20 fps.. anyone know if the 12 fps essentially reduces the banding like the mechanical shutter? the silent option even at a lower fps would be useful at times.


You can drop the rate of photos taken.


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## snappy604 (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> You can drop the rate of photos taken.


thank you. excellent, and thought I'd read that before.. question I have is.. does it help with the banding issue under artificial lights... I think the electronic shutter had a few options.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Yeah, the $400 one. I thought about getting it in October last year, but I kept seeing Vignetting and other artifacts in tests. I got the control ring adapter.


I am new to RF so I need to get a EF:RF adaptor... is there any point/usage for the control ring adapter with EF lenses with the R5 as it already has 3 wheels on it?


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 31, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I am new to RF so I need to get a EF:RF adaptor... is there any point/usage for the control ring adapter with EF lenses with the R5 as it already has 3 wheels on it?


Depends if you want to control something else. I'm not gonna touch the exposure compensation debate, but I did try switching AF modes and tuning white balance with the touch bar on the EOS R. It was nice, but I didn't like how unpredictable it behaved. I would definitely assign these to a dial or control ring... might feel more natural than the touchbar.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I am new to RF so I need to get a EF:RF adaptor... is there any point/usage for the control ring adapter with EF lenses with the R5 as it already has 3 wheels on it?


You can program to control anything like shutter speed, white balance, exposure comp, aperture, etc. It's just nice to have. I have to set to aperture. The RF lenses have em built in, so you could get it to get used to it if you're gonna get those lenses so you know what you're gonna have and how to customize it for your needs.


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## 1D4 (Jul 31, 2020)

Don't know if this was posted anywhere, but it looks like Canon Australia shot down the recall rumors:








Canon EOS R5 & R6 Recall Rumors are not true - Newsshooter


You may have read rumors and reports of a possible product recall happening for the Canon EOS R5 and R6. The only way to find out if there is any truth




www.newsshooter.com





Which is what I expected. I have no doubt Canon did their due diligence in trying to make this the best photo-first camera they could (excellent weather-sealing, high MP, etc.), then made the video as functional as possible.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Don't know if this was posted anywhere, but it looks like Canon Australia shot down the recall rumors:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That hasn't been posted, though people are speculating on a recall and what that might mean.


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## chik0240 (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Ran outside and got what I could from my hellspawn before light was out and he ran.


excellent photo, could you comment on what lens you used on this one? and for that sake, any kind of problem like decentering occurrs?


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

chik0240 said:


> excellent photo, could you comment on what lens you used on this one? and for that sake, any kind of problem like decentering occurrs?


I just used a 24-70 2.8 L II with a canon control ring adapter for the RF mount and I haven't noticed any problem at the time. I could only shoot a small burst of photos since the sun was setting quick and I was losing light.


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## PhotoGenerous (Jul 31, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I am new to RF so I need to get a EF:RF adaptor... is there any point/usage for the control ring adapter with EF lenses with the R5 as it already has 3 wheels on it?



There is a chart in the R5 manual for what you can set each dial to. Page 824.



https://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/9/0300039689/01/EOS_R5_Advanced_User_Guide_v1_EN.pdf



I don't have a body yet. But from looking at the list, I guess I would probably play around with selecting AF method, changing flash exposure compensation, or changing picture style just to switch to black and white.

It'll also probably depend on the button customization I do, but that'll take more time to sort through. That chart starts on page 816.


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## JoTomOz (Jul 31, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> thank you. excellent, and thought I'd read that before.. question I have is.. does it help with the banding issue under artificial lights... I think the electronic shutter had a few options.


I don’t think burst rate will have much to do with that type of banding. From what another forum member has said (Check the new threads for first impressions) the R5 is much better than the R in this area. Try changing shutter speed also if you are getting banding under certain lights with electronic shutter


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> those of you getting your R5s (congrats, envious)... was just watching Northup's comparison of image quality vs A7R 4 and 5D Mk4.. seems quite good on image quality and he went on about the differences between electronic vs mechanical and the banding involved.. I believe I read that there are at least 2 modes for electronic.. he seemed focused on the 20 fps.. anyone know if the 12 fps essentially reduces the banding like the mechanical shutter? the silent option even at a lower fps would be useful at times.



Tony hit all the points, great analysis. Managing Electronic shutter, and Electronic first Curtain (EFCS) are a pain on the Sony's too. There's no way to manage them properly, unless you're constantly menu diving. FUJI have a very elegant way to manage the shutter, I wish the others would copy it. 

The FUJI camera (will, if selected) choose the shutter type according to shooting conditions, in other words it turns off ALL electronic shutter aids, like EFCS when shutter speed is between 1/1000th and 1/8000th. As you know, shooting north of 1/1000th with EFCS ON can ruin BOKEH with a lens wider (faster) than f/1.8. 

On the FUJI, if you're shooting a fast f/1.2 prime (say an 85 wide open girl on the beach in Bali) it will automatically go up from 1/8000th into the two higher Electronic shutter values (1/16,000 & 1/32,000th). That is VERY cool. Only one Sony Alpha camera will go beyond 1/8000th, and that's the A9, not sure about the A7Slll yet though.

So for me, there is no ideal choice yet, FUJI come the closest in firmware implementation, but their steampunk 80's design, with all those dials, and half frame sensor isn't doing it.

I'm loving the RF glass, best on the market, the pint size 70-200/2.8 is fantastic, the stabilized 15-35/2.8 looks killer for video, and the 50/1.2 would be my go-to stills portrait lens, period. 

Sony loaned me the A7RlV and 135/1.8 GM and I wanted to shoot it wide-open to get a feel for it. I had no idea, until hitting the 1/8000th Mechanical shutter ceiling that its Electronic shutter stopped there too. So, in effect the camera was constantly over-exposing at base ISO. Again, that's a win for FUJI's electronic shutter.


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## MinoltaSRT101 (Jul 31, 2020)

Glad I picked up my R5 today! I only shoot stills and have some late Summer/early Fall events to shoot (fingers crossed!). Looking forward to familiarizing myself with the camera over the next couple of weeks before my 1st shoot with it.


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> I don’t think burst rate will have much to do with that type of banding. From what another forum member has said (Check the new threads for first impressions) the R5 is much better than the R in this area. Try changing shutter speed also if you are getting banding under certain lights with electronic shutter



Burst rate on the SONY's plays a roll in the banding and shadow recovery, its a nightmare to remember *what and where.* Basically, electronic shutter drops to 12bit, if you shoot above X frames per second, it's different on every body. Dive into the R5's manual, see if they mention it.


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## cornieleous (Jul 31, 2020)

I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is ******* and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .

The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:

This is going to make shooting very pleasant and more convenient, and be a robust stills camera in all light and weather, and competent video camera for light and mid duty jobs in moderate to good light. The build feels very solid and elegant and the body is clearly well thought out for the most part. The only thing I have found that is a real negative, is the grip is more squared and smaller than most FF DSLRs and is not nearly as comfortable, and the controls feel a bit close together which is an advantage for reaching some and disadvantage for others.

Ergonomics:

The thing is silent in electronics shutter and pretty darn quiet mechanical.
Not a fan of the smaller size and less rounded grip compared to a DSLR. Space and comfort are slightly reduced and controls are not as perfectly placed. It isn't awful, but is the thing I like least so far. I will be buying an L bracket to hopefully make it larger and better balanced. Canon and industry should calm down with the one camera for all purposes and leave pro gear pro- and large for comfort. Also would be easier to pack in features and cool probably.
The screen is very high quality and great touch response. Articulation feels solid, like it will not be fragile unless you really screw up and ram it into something. Visually, it is on par with a good phone screen, just smaller.
I still love an optical viewfinder and how much more natural that feels, but there are many advantages to EVF and with this one, it is not awful to look through. You can shoot, operate the menus, and review all in the viewfinder. I particularly like how much larger images look reviewing in the viewfinder.
Screen and VF brightness lowered from default by one tick look best to me indoors and should save power unless I need the brightness.
The timeout on the screen and VF can be lowered, but not as far as I think it should be. I want max power savings. The 5D4 had a 2 second timeout on review of images and I think this screen and VF should have that low of an option too. The lowest is 15 seconds currently. You can turn off either VF or screen in menus but would prefer short auto off time options .
The menu system and display options on screen and in viewfinder will suit anyone, they have done a really great job offering many options for info display and control setup. So many ways to customize to a simple workflow for most tasks. Still miss quick control custom layouts though.
Batteries fully interchangeable with previous ones, even off brand.
The magnesium alloy seems different composition, maybe to enhance thermal conductivity closer to copper since the body is the heat sink surface? I can feel the body take heat form my hands very slightly, and that should help dissipate heat from inside. After a long session of constantly playing with everything the body felt barely warm at 78-80 degrees ambient.
There is a very subtle quiet clunk if you move the un-powered body in a direction with hard enough motion (takes a good shake). This is the IBIS mechanism, which when un-powered, allows the sensor to float on the IBIS suspension. I don't think this rattles at all as some have said. It feels solid still and to me the sound is no bother. When powered, does not happen.
All buttons seem well placed. The dials are decently placed but a bit close on the top for my large hands. The joystick is up too high but not awfully so. Not nearly so cramped as many mirrorless bricks, but I still wish this smaller-is-better mentality, when we are talking about pro equipment, would stop. Portable stuff should be a niche market. By comparison, the 5D4 feels luxuriant and more natural in the hand. Large lenses also look dumb on a mirrorless but whatever.
I love the top screen, which I think is e-ink like any kindle and displays the mode even when off .
You can operate the mode dial like the old one without looking down. Better, you can remove modes you will not use from that rotation order. It could be just a few modes if you want, like Av, M, B, C1, or any other list you desire.
Everything feels intuitive for the most part. Video configuration and shooting is just easy, and you get good info as you select options about shooting times, etc. Stills basic settings are accessible in several screens and via the dials of course. Getting to deep settings is never more than a couple buttons or touches and much can be customized. Very easy to use overall for any shooter, particularly Canon shooters, and hoping I will get as comfortable with it, or more, as the 5D4 over time.

Performance so far:

The focus system is amazing. So fast compared to 5D4 even in low light. So many options for different scenarios. Tracking on objects works well but I have not tried face or animal modes yet, but I can tell there is a lot of ability here. Machine learning and later firmware may make this even better still. It is already class leading and 100% coverage focus points is great. Video focus seems reliable, effortless and easy. For stills, I cannot figure out how to get the focus point to move when I move the joystick without first pressing the focus spot button. Time to read the manual.
I got something near but slightly below the 20FPS with an old 24-105 EF mk1 and off brand battery in a quick unscientific burst test of about 50 images. In electronic shutter only, this thing flies. It did take a while to write the buffer out to my midgrade SD card but I had plenty more buffer to go if I had wanted it.
IBIS is great. I handheld a 1/6 second on my old 3 stop 24-105 and it was almost as sharp as a 1/100 so I am getting at least 4-5 stops on an old EF lens and could never have hand held that before.
Image quality looks like a good step up form the 5D4 in clarity, noise, high ISO, and color (slightly). I have only done some quick tests so this is just first impressions. Some reviewers are saying the Canon sensor stills quality is out there with the best of them now, and while the base DR is not the absolute top of the pack, it is not far behind, very good and improved. At high ISO, DR is equal or better than most competitors as it has been since the 5D4 came out with Canon sensors.
High ISO is looking more usable than the 5D4. Will need to take more subjects to get a better feel. An astrophotography landscape trip ought to put it through the ringer, hopefully I will do that soon.
Tried some 4K30 and 4K60 low bitrate (haven't bought cards to try higher res or bit rates yet). To me it looks really good compared against my Sony NXCAM HXR-NX80 4K. Of course uncropped full frame, I can get much wider, still clear and sharp with great Canon color, and a way better stabilizer. Haven't done a pixel peeping 4K comparison, but the 5D4 held its own against most 4K options and this should be even better. Won't even get into the nonsense about HQ modes and limits, I did not buy this as a dedicated video camera and don't even have the memory cards for those modes yet. I will still retain dedicated video tools because I don't have this belief any hybrid can do it all yet, and probably not for years to come.
Shot for only a few minutes of video at a time so far so no comment on heat issues but I doubt for my normal uses I will encounter them. If I need long form video for interviews or documentary (which I only very rarely do) I have a dedicated pro Sony NXCAM camcorder for 1080P (still very appropriate for most jobs) and 4K, and off camera sound capture. That is the most realistic kind of camera for event and documentary work in my opinion. If I was doing full frame video production I would look at the newest Sony, or more likely the SH1, or if I could afford it, a used or new Cinema camera. Hybrids may never do it all just based on engineering trades and physics, despite what all the entitled people think and poor marketing suggestions.
Conclusion so far? Going well, no major regrets. To me, the camera is as advertised as I never latch onto a feature with unrealistic expectation. Field testing on some tough shoots soon should tell me if I love it, but I already like it. Curious to see how others are getting along with their R5/6 if you were able to get one.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is ******* and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .
> 
> The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:
> 
> ...


I wish some if the settings could be accessed through the display and not having to dig through the menu like switching from animal to person eye tracking, canon log/raw, and slow mo 120. Other than that, I also need to play around with it and find the quirks and stress test the batteries, memory, heating, etc.


----------



## chik0240 (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is ******* and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .
> 
> The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:
> 
> ...


how about battery life? I mean say for sports event shooting did you need to change battery? that's where a lot of ppl cares


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## cornieleous (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> I wish some if the settings could be accessed through the display and not having to dig through the menu like switching from animal to person eye tracking, canon log/raw, and slow mo 120. Other than that, I also need to play around with it and find the quirks and stress test the batteries, memory, heating, etc.


Yep I need to put it to some real rigors too, but good so far.

Have you tried custom menus and controls? That greatly sped up my workflow on 5D4. I have a custom menu tab each for settings I need for astro, landscape, etc.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Yep I need to put it to some real rigors too, but good so far.
> 
> Have you tried custom menus and controls? That greatly sped up my workflow on 5D4. I have a custom menu tab each for settings I need for astro, landscape, etc.


Yeah. Custom menu is a fraking life saver for my 5DIV. I haven’t assigned anything to the R5 yet. That’s a tomorrow thing.


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## cornieleous (Jul 31, 2020)

chik0240 said:


> how about battery life? I mean say for sports event shooting did you need to change battery? that's where a lot of ppl cares


I would have to go out and shoot long session with many bursts and lots of focus activity to give a good answer for that use case, but playing around for a solid hour with all kinds of things and either screen or EVF on most of that time, taking a few bursts, some video, using the EVF and screen and I was down to 70% from full on an LPE6, not the new higher capacity battery which I haven't charged yet. My guess is a pro reviewer will do that sport or wildlife use case with battery reports before I do, and hopefully report it without hype.

I have airplane mode on, and EVF and screen slightly dimmer than default and get the feeling battery life will not be quite as good as the 5D4, but not too much worse. I'll know more after I do a timelapse, which I have lots of careful data on from the 5D4 to compare against.


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## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Yep I need to put it to some real rigors too, but good so far.
> 
> Have you tried custom menus and controls? That greatly sped up my workflow on 5D4. I have a custom menu tab each for settings I need for astro, landscape, etc.


The thing that bugs me is the screen on top stays partially on after you turn the body off. Apparently you can’t turn it off and it’s a thing with the R too, unless you pull out the battery.


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## quilatoo (Jul 31, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> includes all my EF lenses except... EF100mm macro. A bit of a surprise for me although I wouldn't normally shoot high speed burst with it.


That's good news. Unfortunately for me I only have a 16-35mm f4 that will work at 12 fps mechanical, and that isn't something I'd traditionally think of doing (those landscapes aren't hopefully going to be moving at 100mph!).

When it comes to 'real world' reviews I do wish a lot more of the YouTube crowd would do more on the performance of third-party EF lenses, since both Sigma and Tamron upped their game in the past five years or so; making them decent prospects against the native offerings. From what I've seen of the initial R release (and there's no reason to think R5/R6 would be different) they all work fine and in some ways better than on DSLRs, it'd just be good to know what actual limitations there are, including things like using IS and IBIS. Naturally Canon aren't going to be the ones coming out with that info.

The dream is to slap my Sigma 150-600 and 1.4 TC onto an R5 and make genuinely usable with better autofocus above f8 and 12 fps shooting!


----------



## -pekr- (Jul 31, 2020)

Josh Leavitt said:


> It's probably far too late for this, but the best solution for long high bit-rate record times is a dedicated heat sink. I think Canon might be better served in the long run by bringing two variants to market. Keep the weather sealed R5 and R6 as they are now with their modest recording times and market those to stills photographers. And then release video modified versions (RV5 and RV6 if you will) with a redesigned back to accommodate a vented heat sink (and fan possibly). The rear of the camera would probably look like the monstrously ugly Fuji GFX-50S, but it would certainly take care of the overheating issue.



Please no ... just lead the heat to the bottom plate and solve it by attaching special grip, containing less batteries, a vent or other cooling solution, peltier, whatever.


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> You can operate the mode dial like the old one without looking down. Better, you can remove modes you will not use from that rotation order. It could be just a few modes if you want, like Av, M, B, C1, or any other list you desire.



That sounds superb, those rotating *hard marked dials* are akin to playing roulette when in a rush, with an eye in the EVF.


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## chik0240 (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I would have to go out and shoot long session with many bursts and lots of focus activity to give a good answer for that use case, but playing around for a solid hour with all kinds of things and either screen or EVF on most of that time, taking a few bursts, some video, using the EVF and screen and I was down to 70% from full on an LPE6, not the new higher capacity battery which I haven't charged yet. My guess is a pro reviewer will do that sport or wildlife use case with battery reports before I do, and hopefully report it without hype.
> 
> I have airplane mode on, and EVF and screen slightly dimmer than default and get the feeling battery life will not be quite as good as the 5D4, but not too much worse. I'll know more after I do a timelapse, which I have lots of careful data on from the 5D4 to compare against.


that sounds acceptable, but I doubt it can be just slightly lower than the 5D serise as my old 5D3 can do a whole 10 days vacation with 2 batteries in the battery grip and never need a charge, shooting like 1200 photos and goes to ~30%, and those are on old batteries where health rating in the camera is in the lowest rate already


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 31, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Well, he was using a pre-production model of the R6, which means he had to have received it from Canon. I doubt Canon would have provided him with a pre-production model if they did not feel he was serious or that he was not their intended user or market.
> 
> I'm as big of a Canon fanboy as anyone, but let's not be blind here. Canon is acknowledging problems and apparently working to fix them.I have no problem with people saying it won't be an issue for them. It would not be an issue for me. But, let's stop hating on people who have legitimate issues.



Since that video first surfaced, I have and will continue to have the same issue. Why bring an untested and unknown Camera for an important shoot without a backup plan.

The Camera failed him for sure but to blame the Camera for his failed shoot is silly.


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## Respinder (Jul 31, 2020)

Well what a crazy few weeks it's been. And I'm left wondering - what is the lesson learned here? It's all about perception.

And I feel we have seen a repeat of what happened to Nikon two years ago when they launched the Z6 and Z7 cameras. Just like the Canon R5, Nikon had aggresively hyped up these two cameras. But ultimately, it didn't matter how good the sensors were or the photo/video capabilities that these cameras offered - the critics, media and YouTubers all focused entirely on one issue - the fact that these cameras had only a single card slot. To many, the single card slot meant that these cameras were "completely unreliable for professionals" and "dead on arrival" - sound familiar?

Also two years ago, Canon ran a much stealthier campaign for the Canon EOS R - that camera was announced a few weeks after the Z6/Z7, and while it too had similar limitations (such as the single card slot), and while the camera was arguably worse in many ways when compared to the Z cameras, the EOS R was perceived by the media as being the better product, despite the fact that it had many flaws. Of course, it helped that the EOS R didn't have the same hype level as the Z6/Z7, so the bar was much lower. Also it helped that Canon sent all reviewers of the camera to Hawaii - of course 

Now, fast forward two years, and I feel that the Canon R5 has stepped into the same shoes as the Nikon Z6/Z7, with a crazy level of hype. Problem is when you hype up a product so much, you raise that bar so high, and then it becomes unachievable for reality to live up to the hype. In this case, there is the overheating issue, which is similar to the single card slot problem of the Z6/Z7.

When I first heard of this issue, first reported by EOSHD, I felt that it was ridiculous and clickbait reporting. As many have noted on this thread, there are many ways to record with this camera around these limitations, including using different modes and different video settings. For me, as a hobbyist photographer/videographer, I shoot mostly in 24p, so I shouldn't be affected a whole lot here. The 8K specs line up with what I would have expected - I think 20min of 8K footage is incredible to achieve, especially when most memory cards will not accept anything more than that, and it will be challenging at best to store and process all that footage with current equipment. 

But the media decided to run with the overheating limitations - EOSHD first reported on them based upon the information that Canon UK supplied to CVP - for the record, someone should be fired for that disclosure. At the end of the day, since this disclosure, Canon has not been able to stay in front of the story, while the media (including YouTubers) continue to translate the story from clickbait to a real problem - that is perception. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter that the R5 is a best-in-class hybrid photo and video product, with amazing resolution, speed and video capabilities - all that matters is that it overheats! And BTW -- from the comments on here, that perception has even affected the purchasing decisions for photographers as well, who worry about overheating while taking photos (which is not true and hasn't been confirmed, but perception is everything!)

All the while, Sony has now occupied the same position that Canon occupied two years ago, and they've done a fabulous job. Despite the obvious limitations of the a7siii as a true hybrid camera (at 12MP it is really just a video camera), it is perceived as the best camera you can buy right now. Sony ran an excellent stealth campaign with little hype. Even though the camera is revolutionary even from a video standpoint, the bar was low enough that Sony could do no wrong, very similar to how Canon came out with the EOS R two years ago! But Sony did better than that - look how many influencers got copies of the Sony camera versus folks who got pre-production copies of the R5? And all those reviews are direct comparisons against the Canon, and the R5 is getting beat in every video. No matter what you say about it, its positive news for Sony, and negative for Canon. Again, it doesn't matter that these two cameras should absolutely not be compared.

And sadly, the message of the R5 being a photographers dream camera has also gotten lost as well. Every influencer reviewing the camera focuses on the video, and more specifically, the overheating - in other words, the negatives. I've only seen 2-3 videos talking about the great autofocus and high resolution, but the vast majority of videos focuses on the overheating and negatives. Not a good look.

Whether or not the overheating is a real issue or not, it has been accepted now by the media, influencers, and by the average consumer as a real issue. Perception is everything. My recommendation to Canon - they should think about the recall very seriously. The recent statement from Canon Australia is also unfortunate - they really double down with their statement "Canon has been transparent about recording limits for the EOS R5 and is confident that the camera performs to stated specifications." - that "confidence" may be perceived as arrogance in the eyes of many, and Canon isn't learning here. Again, do I think the overheating is an issue? No I don't. But I want Canon to succeed, and I just don't see it happening based upon the perception.

One also has to admire the approach that Sony has taken over the past few years - building an army of goodwill, or a cult of Sony (like a Cult of Apple in a way), that really expresses loyalty to the brand, which has also resulted in continued customers transitioning from Nikon and Canon over to Sony. Going back to Nikon - I feel their cameras have been great too. But it hasn't stopped folks from leaving Nikon and going to Sony, and its been happening for many years now. I fear that you will see many more people leave Canon and transition to Sony as well following this release and current predicament with the R5.

What was the goal of this camera? I would think that it was to get folks to either (a) stay in the Canon system, or (b) transition from Nikon/Sony over to Canon? I feel that if the goal was (b), then Canon is failing based upon the current negative perception. They need to respond quickly, and it cannot be like the way it came out from Canon Australia - arrogant and dismissive of the complaints. Canon needs to step up here. They've done recalls before (Remember the light loss issue with the Canon 5D Mark III?). They've also done things where they add features (like Canon Log to 5D Mark IV) which required folks to send their cameras back into Canon HQ. They need to respond similarly now. It does NOT matter anymore whether the overheating is a real problem or not - its been perceived as such, and the mob has spoken. Whether its a software or hardware fix - I'm not sure - but they really need a better statement to come out with rather than the one that came from Canon Australia.

I really want this camera to succeed - I feel that it is the true successor to the Canon 5D Mark II - a real hybrid photo/video product. But unfortunately, it was released with too much hype, and couldn't deliver to the bar that was set way too high. Canon needs to respond now and get things back under control. 

Last thing I would say - CTO Larsson put up a great followup video (



) explaining why he is "divorcing" Canon for Sony. In his case, he doesn't just refer to the Sony as the best video camera, but makes a good case as to why Canon is just underperforming in general as a company, and perhaps the broader long-term case about how making the best photography product may not be enough. In this world of mobile phones and ultimately cheaper solutions that can take photos, video is quickly becoming the new artform that demands higher quality and higher specced products. I don't believe that making the R5 the best photography product is the best endgame for Canon right now. As other influencers have mentioned in their videos, Sony has competitive products that also offer great photographic capabilities. The real point of the R5 was to create that all-in-one hybrid that everyone has been lusting for since the 5D Mark II - if Canon wants to pursue this approach, then they need to come back with some serious solutions for these perceived overheating issues which have become real issues to many. I really hope they make the right decision!


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 31, 2020)

I shot 530 still for a timelaspe and still had 15mins of 8k available, unlimited cropped 5.1k oversampled 4k as well as "standard" 4k(which is far from standard coming from the R's 1.7crop in 4k) my 15-35 is once again a 15-35 in 10bit clog 4k.

Only shot 45sec of 8k just to mess around with editing and after loading into Premier I decided quickly to transcode to 4k ProRes. 

Quick thoughts on the Camera: 
Love the shutter sound, 
miss the dpad from the R and RP(I will deal), 
my off brand batteries work but do not unlock +H shutter. 
64gig SD card is candy to this monster.
Animal AF is cheating.


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## Max TT (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Ran outside and got what I could from my hellspawn before light was out and he ran.


Love the doggy


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## quilatoo (Jul 31, 2020)

Respinder said:


> Well what a crazy few weeks it's been. And I'm left wondering - what is the lesson learned here? It's all about perception.


Hang on, the R was not well received at all! I remember the general consensus being "is that it" and "Canon have released the best mirrorless camera of 2014" with general concerns of its lack of IBIS and dual card slots.

The positives were way more focused on the new mount and quality of RF lenses.

Consumers should always be concerned about the overall quality of a product they're buying even if the overheating is ultimately unlikely to affect photographers. If I have to pay a premium for features I'm not going to use it's going to be more annoying if those features aren't realistically useable for those who do want them.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 31, 2020)

Respinder said:


> Well what a crazy few weeks it's been. And I'm left wondering - what is the lesson learned here? It's all about perception.
> 
> And I feel we have seen a repeat of what happened to Nikon two years ago when they launched the Z6 and Z7 cameras. Just like the Canon R5, Nikon had aggresively hyped up these two cameras. But ultimately, it didn't matter how good the sensors were or the photo/video capabilities that these cameras offered - the critics, media and YouTubers all focused entirely on one issue - the fact that these cameras had only a single card slot. To many, the single card slot meant that these cameras were "completely unreliable for professionals" and "dead on arrival" - sound familiar?
> 
> ...


My memory of the EOS R's reception was different. It did not receive the illustrious welcome that you painted and things like 4K crop and single card slot were heavily criticized much the way overheating is being criticized about the R5/R6. There were many praises sang about the RF glass... not so much about the body.

I suspect the R5/R6 will follow a similar reception. Once it gets in people's hands, the positives will outweigh the negatives, and although not perfect will probably be deemed a really great camera. Just wait until it gets into really creative peoples hands, and the focus will shift on what can be made... not on what it lacks. The biggest difference is Canon has put these halo specs which may or may not be reliable depending on how you use the camera. In times past, they did not give you the option, opting instead to not put anything in that would cause the camera to overheat. This time Canon said, here you go... 8K, oversampled 4K, 4K120... YMMV.


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## Pixel (Jul 31, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> Pg 896-897 of user guide has a table of EF lenses that are supported for 12 FPS mechanical.


Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?


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## nikkito (Jul 31, 2020)

I miss the good old times, when a photo camera was made to take photos....


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## Otara (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
> That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?



Ive been using it and so far found it to be excellent with EF lenses, hardly use mechanical, mostly using electronic first curtain. As a transition it could hardly be better in my view.


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## zim (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> The thing that bugs me is the screen on top stays partially on after you turn the body off. Apparently you can’t turn it off and it’s a thing with the R too, unless you pull out the battery.


I read elsewhere that it's like the Kindle paper white display so shouldn't be using battery when switched off?


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## Viggo (Jul 31, 2020)

Otara said:


> Ive been using it and so far found it to be excellent with EF lenses, hardly use mechanical, mostly using electronic first curtain. As a transition it could hardly be better in my view.


Do no use EFCS, it ruins your bokeh and can give you gradient exposures, it’s the devil


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## Aregal (Jul 31, 2020)

DBounce said:


> I already ordered and my R5 will be arriving later today. I'm not worried, I know Canon will do whatever is required to make things right. Excellent service is one thing Canon are well known for and this will be no different. Too bad Sony will not be doing likewise on the A7S3. That folks is the difference.


Yup, my first R bricked and Canon sent me an entirely new kit. We’ll see how the R5 does this weekend. I’m exporting my low-energy unboxing video right now. Haha.


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## Pixel (Jul 31, 2020)

Otara said:


> Ive been using it and so far found it to be excellent with EF lenses, hardly use mechanical, mostly using electronic first curtain. As a transition it could hardly be better in my view.



Sure the newer EF lenses are going to be great but expect compatibility issues galore for older EF lenses. That was never mentioned. When the EOS 1R comes out next year, it’s going to be a punch in the gut if you don’t already have all new glass.


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## Pixel (Jul 31, 2020)

Sure the newer EF lenses are going to be great but expect compatibility issues galore for older EF lenses and off brand lenses (EF mount Sigma Art, Tamron)...sorry. That was never mentioned. 
When the EOS 1R comes out next year, it’s going to be a punch in the gut if you don’t already have all new glass.


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## quilatoo (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
> That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?


Yep, I suppose it makes sense that RF lenses have some natural advantage over adapted EF versions but it still sucks considering the sentiment made by Canon that we can use decades of old kit and take advantage of all the newer tech. Maybe it's being a bit picky that the highest burst rates aren't available, as IBIS for non-IS EF lenses is itself a big boost.

Would love to see what the deal is with newer third party lenses released in the last couple of years. There shouldn't be any real reason for them to not support all the features the chosen Canon EF lenses have, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deliberate choice to reduce their abilities on RF bodies.

EDIT - Meant drive mode rather than burst rate.


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## Otara (Jul 31, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> Yep, I suppose it makes sense that RF lenses have some natural advantage over adapted EF versions but it still sucks considering the sentiment made by Canon that we can use decades of old kit and take advantage of all the newer tech. Maybe it's being a bit picky that the highest burst rates aren't available, as IBIS for non-IS EF lenses is itself a big boost.
> 
> Would love to see what the deal is with newer third party lenses released in the last couple of years. There shouldn't be any real reason for them to not support all the features the chosen Canon EF lenses have, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deliberate choice to reduce their abilities on RF bodies.
> 
> EDIT - Meant drive mode rather than burst rate.



Used it with a Sigma 50mm Art, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, worked perfectly so far. Has a way to let non-registered lenses work with IBIS as well, by manually entering the focal length.

Anythings possible, but it didnt happen with the R, and a big part of their strategy is their lens library. Getting IS on my non-IS EF lenses is definitely a selling point to me.


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## Otara (Jul 31, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Do no use EFCS, it ruins your bokeh and can give you gradient exposures, it’s the devil



Once I notice it, Ill stop.


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## BeenThere (Jul 31, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> Yep, I suppose it makes sense that RF lenses have some natural advantage over adapted EF versions but it still sucks considering the sentiment made by Canon that we can use decades of old kit and take advantage of all the newer tech. Maybe it's being a bit picky that the highest burst rates aren't available, as IBIS for non-IS EF lenses is itself a big boost.
> 
> Would love to see what the deal is with newer third party lenses released in the last couple of years. There shouldn't be any real reason for them to not support all the features the chosen Canon EF lenses have, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deliberate choice to reduce their abilities on RF bodies.
> 
> EDIT - Meant drive mode rather than burst rate.


Yeah we definitely want nothing to improve over the lowest performance existing kit. That way nobody will be offended.


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## Viggo (Jul 31, 2020)

I could’ve gotten an R5 today, my go to shop had gotten quite a few so the extremely limited numbers maybe just not the case...


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## Besisika (Jul 31, 2020)

nikkito said:


> I miss the good old times, when a photo camera was made to take photos....


And I miss walking 2 hours to and another 2 hours back from school through the jungle, as an African boy. Today, they have this thing called buss, that can do it in 15min and you just sit starring at your phone, bored.
Sorry if I don't share your souvenir, but waiting 3 days before I could see the photos I took was never fun to me. You pay for the film, you pay to develop it, and they charge you even for blurry photos. 
A matter of opinion I guess.


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## landon (Jul 31, 2020)

There's unboxing of the R5 on YouTube already.


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## basketballfreak6 (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is ******* and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .
> 
> The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:
> 
> ...



Hey mate when you go out to do astro do you mind trying a longer (ie 2 minute exposure) for me? With my 5D4 I can see a fixed pattern type banding in the sky (not super apparent but when you see it you see it particularly with the more heavy handed nature in processing with milky way and stuff) was wondering if it's still an issue with the new sensor cheers!


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## Starting out EOS R (Jul 31, 2020)

landon said:


> There's unboxing of the R5 on YouTube already.


I find unboxing videos hilarious. Anyone interested in the camera would have looked at it on the Canon website? It's a box with some packaging, a camera, a strap, battery, charger and manual for heavens sake.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jul 31, 2020)

Does having video features limit your ability to take photos?



nikkito said:


> I miss the good old times, when a photo camera was made to take photos....


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## landon (Jul 31, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I find unboxing videos hilarious. Anyone interested in the camera would have looked at it on the Canon website? It's a box with some packaging, a camera, a strap, battery, charger and manual for heavens sake.


They'll drag it out, one upload at a time to maximize monetization. One video for unboxing, one for the button placements, one for the screen, 50 videos later you'll get to see some actual footage.


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## Bob Howland (Jul 31, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> The dream is to slap my Sigma 150-600 and 1.4 TC onto an R5 and make genuinely usable with better autofocus above f8 and 12 fps shooting!


Sport or Contemporary?? (I have a Sport.) Either way, tell us how it works, please.


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## koenkooi (Jul 31, 2020)

landon said:


> They'll drag it out, one upload at a time to maximize monetization. One video for unboxing, one for the button placements, one for the screen, 50 videos later you'll get to see some actual footage.



Don't forget about product placement and sponsors. On a meta level it's amusing to see how many different takes one can do on the same Squarespace/VPN/mobile game script.


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## Respinder (Jul 31, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> Hang on, the R was not well received at all! I remember the general consensus being "is that it" and "Canon have released the best mirrorless camera of 2014" with general concerns of its lack of IBIS and dual card slots.
> 
> The positives were way more focused on the new mount and quality of RF lenses.
> 
> Consumers should always be concerned about the overall quality of a product they're buying even if the overheating is ultimately unlikely to affect photographers. If I have to pay a premium for features I'm not going to use it's going to be more annoying if those features aren't realistically useable for those who do want them.



Overall feedback on the EOS R was far better when compared to Nikon Z6/Z7. Nikon took quite a significant beating over things like the single card slot whereas the EOS R didn’t really get as affected by it. On an overall whole yes, the camera was deemed to be imperfect versus other mirrorless cameras in general but Canon absolutely did not take the same beating in the press that Nikon did.


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## Respinder (Jul 31, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> My memory of the EOS R's reception was different. It did not receive the illustrious welcome that you painted and things like 4K crop and single card slot were heavily criticized much the way overheating is being criticized about the R5/R6. There were many praises sang about the RF glass... not so much about the body.
> 
> I suspect the R5/R6 will follow a similar reception. Once it gets in people's hands, the positives will outweigh the negatives, and although not perfect will probably be deemed a really great camera. Just wait until it gets into really creative peoples hands, and the focus will shift on what can be made... not on what it lacks. The biggest difference is Canon has put these halo specs which may or may not be reliable depending on how you use the camera. In times past, they did not give you the option, opting instead to not put anything in that would cause the camera to overheat. This time Canon said, here you go... 8K, oversampled 4K, 4K120... YMMV.



I never said that the EOS R received a “illustrious welcome” - I merely said that Canon did not get taken down by the press nearly as badly as Nikon.

I think if the R5/R6 follow the same path with the R in terms of getting the lukewarm reception at launch then Canon isn’t meeting their internal expectations - but perhaps it won’t matter if the camera is sold out between now and November and Canon is able to pull out some serious positive PR


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## Osama (Jul 31, 2020)

Respinder said:


> Last thing I would say - CTO Larsson .... some stuff ... etc.



Just to reply to CTO Larsson's video about stock prices since he removed my reply from his video without even trying to provide a counter-argument. 

Comparing Stock prices is highly misleading. Canon's portfolio is full of products in shrinking segments (cameras, printers, multifunction devices... etc.). Sony, on the other hand, has many products in growing segments (console gaming, consumer electronics, semiconductors ... etc.). This makes Canon, as a company, unattractive for investors.

When you look at the annual revenue, on the other hand, both companies are stuck in terms of growth. Sony is averaging around $75 billion (an average of 7% from the imaging segment). In comparison, Canon is averaging about $40 billion a year (an average of 23% from the imaging segment). 

None of this is related to the discussion, since a company like Fuji, which is far smaller than both, is making great camera products. While Kodak, which just saw it's stock prices go up by more than %300, does not make any imaging products.


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## Starting out EOS R (Jul 31, 2020)

With all the talk on overheating, firmware updates & recalls, Armondo's video was interesting, along with some other reviews that said when the camera was warning it was overheating and about to shut down, it actually didn't feel hot and neither did the battery or the CF / SD cards???

I do wonder if an issue could be, that the overheating warning is linked to a timer and not directly to a temperature gauge and the warning is actually happening way before the camera actually gets to a critical stage, meaning in reality record times could be significantly longer than the warning says? Maybe this is what will happen with the firmware update to change the parameters, or perhaps add some form of temperature sensor that will mean the warning comes up only when it is actually relevant??


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## HenWin (Jul 31, 2020)

It appears (?) from what I've read here and elsewhere that Canon--understandably--has forsaken DSLRs in favor of mirrorless. I'm bummed, however that they chose not to include *GPS *in the R5/R6. I have it in my 5d4 and consider it a feature well worth having. Hopefully they'll put it back in in future cams. But I guess we'll wait and see, won't we?


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## Mark3794 (Jul 31, 2020)

The situation is overblown as always. Every time Canon has an issue the world is ending according to some news sites.

The a7sIII shuts down in 30 minutes recording 4k24p. They should recall even this camera right?

Sony a7S III heat testing update. Had it out again for one last set of tests before returning our pre-production unit to Sony. Once again bright sunny day, mid-afternoon, 90F, but this time lower humidity (31% vs 51%). Auto temp power off set to high (again), but this time rear screen swung a full 180 degrees away from body. Only lasted 30 minutes this time. For now, my results are very similar to Dan Watson’s down in Florida.


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## landon (Jul 31, 2020)

Osama said:


> Just to reply to CTO Larsson's video about stock prices since he removed my reply from his video without even trying to provide a counter-argument.
> 
> Comparing Stock prices is highly misleading. Canon's portfolio is full of products in shrinking segments (cameras, printers, multifunction devices... etc.). Sony, on the other hand, has many products in growing segments (console gaming, consumer electronics, semiconductors ... etc.). This makes Canon, as a company, unattractive for investors.
> 
> ...


Not sure what the argument is about. Just my 2 unrelated cents. Since the pandemic and many people/students have to work/study from home. Printers have sold out.


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## Respinder (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
> That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?


So if you don’t get 12 FPS continuous with EF lenses not listed here, what speed are you getting? Or is it that there is no continuous shooting at all for unlisted lenses?


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## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

Krispy said:


> Hmmm. That’s promising and also scary at the same time.
> I have an R5 sitting on my desk. Testing time. We’ll see what Canon’s move is. They have to make an announcement sooner rather than later.


I would not worry too much. CPS is still one of the best things about Canon. If there is a solution, you will get it too


----------



## RayValdez360 (Jul 31, 2020)

landon said:


> Take the time to get it right.
> I want to see the c100 and/or c200 RF cinema line first, so I can decide between the R5 or R6 as a B cam.


An announcement is over due for those cameras at this point. I am already eyeing 3 a7sIIIs to be my 3 compact cinema cameras. At least for events.


----------



## Brooklyn (Jul 31, 2020)

I am with Been There.
I am primarily a still shooter and rarely shot video. I don't think I have ever shot a video over 8 minutes.
Even if there are firmware updates or even recalls I still get to use the camera now and get used to it's features now and can deal with a recall if it happens


----------



## adigoks (Jul 31, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> It's truly amazing what lengths people go through to convince everyone this camera is perfectly fine as it is, and Canon should not have done anything more to mitigate the constnt heat buildup somehow.
> Canon has marketed the movie modes heavily. From the original presentation in this order: 20 fps - AF - ISO 51k - 45MP - 4K120 - 8K
> 
> So yeah, it's on the feature list and some people would like it to work without three asterisks behind each video mode. To be clear, I do not expect this camera to work in 8k without limitations, that would be absurd. However shooting 4k you have the choice between 4k120, 4k60 and 4k30 HQ (which all overheat), and 4k30 either line-skipped or cropped, which each brings it's own problems. So your choice is either overheating modes or otherwise flawed modes. Not to mention the R6, which overheats in all 4K modes.
> ...



gerald undone had tested R5 recording using atomos external recorder.
he said 4K 60 recording using external recorder is fine & not limited by heat.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286856342385446912


----------



## Stu_bert (Jul 31, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> Pg 896-897 of user guide has a table of EF lenses that are supported for 12 FPS mechanical.


Than you!


----------



## quilatoo (Jul 31, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Yeah we definitely want nothing to improve over the lowest performance existing kit. That way nobody will be offended.


Eh? The improvement of RF lenses is mainly the width of the mount, right? So we end up with better quality glass outright and amazing stuff like f2 zoom lenses. It hasn't made the EF lenses obsolete though and a big part of Canon's marketing with the launch of the RF mount is its backwards compatibility with existing lenses.

If, to get the most out of a $3,800/£4,200 camera, you actually also need to spend thousands more in upgrading lenses for a new mount then I think it's fair enough to have some general reservations about it. It also removes the advantage Canon has in a customer already being financially committed to their previous lens mount, and puts them squarely in competition with Sony.

Basically, I like Canon cameras and have never considered anything else for "serious" work. I've never been that fussed over the quality of Canon lenses in the past five years or so to think the extra expense over Tamron and Sigma versions is worth it. It would be a bit of a disappointment if those lenses ended up being reduced in ability purely because they're third party rather than a genuine physical characteristic.


----------



## quilatoo (Jul 31, 2020)

Otara said:


> Used it with a Sigma 50mm Art, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, worked perfectly so far. Has a way to let non-registered lenses work with IBIS as well, by manually entering the focal length.
> 
> Anythings possible, but it didnt happen with the R, and a big part of their strategy is their lens library. Getting IS on my non-IS EF lenses is definitely a selling point to me.


That's cool - using IBIS with Sigma Art lenses actually makes those a potentially interesting purchase for me now.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 31, 2020)

PhotoGenerous said:


> There is a chart in the R5 manual for what you can set each dial to. Page 824.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The R5 is like the R in that nearly all the dials, buttons and rings can be customised for almost any function. I use the ring for ISO. The one I love is when you register settings on C1,C2,C3, the C3 option can be set with the video settings you want and then if you press the red button between the top screen and front wheel, this automatically starts recording video at the settings you chose. Press it again and it moves back to stills or whatever you were previously shooting.

I have my Settings as C3 video 4k 35p (as I don't shoot much video), C2 eye detect AF for people with high speed 12FPS and C1 as eye detect AF animal with high speed 12 FPS.

It takes a little while to set up but once done is great.


----------



## stevensteven (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The Sony's have a definite CLUNK when shaken/vibrated. I spend a lot of time with mine in a light shoulder bag (read: no padding) and it becomes a distraction when out on a quiet jaunt.


 Can It break when it rattles ? of I can run around and shake it and nothing will happen ?


----------



## JoTomOz (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
> That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?


Yep, I’m disappointed the 135mm f/2 isn’t on that list, I reckon they could have been a bit more upfront about it... as in with RF and select/recent EF lenses


----------



## Kiton (Jul 31, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> Yep, I’m disappointed the 135mm f/2 isn’t on that list, I reckon they could have been a bit more upfront about it... as in with RF and select/recent EF lenses



I shot people in a rain storm yesterday with the 135 f 2 and it worked just fine for my taste buds.
That 135 is one of the sharpest lenses out there, love the 135 2!

I don't think it hit quite 12, closer to 10 fps and on electronic shutter it didn't hit 20, closer to 17 or 18.
But really, for a lens of its age, I am fine with 17 fps. I am not swapping that great piece of glass any time soon.


----------



## Franklyok (Jul 31, 2020)

Shit happy sony rumors with petapixel reports that R5 will be shipped by November... Canon is fixing the overheading... That's what is next...


----------



## Kiton (Jul 31, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> The R5 is like the R in that nearly all the dials, buttons and rings can be customised for almost any function. I use the ring for ISO. The one I love is when you register settings on C1,C2,C3, the C3 option can be set with the video settings you want and then if you press the red button between the top screen and front wheel, this automatically starts recording video at the settings you chose. Press it again and it moves back to stills or whatever you were previously shooting.
> 
> I have my Settings as C3 video 4k 35p (as I don't shoot much video), C2 eye detect AF for people with high speed 12FPS and C1 as eye detect AF animal with high speed 12 FPS.
> 
> It takes a little while to set up but once done is great.



If you find a way to remove some of the useless shit displayed on the play back screen, I would love to know, I really do not care to see if Flicker is engaged or not etc etc! Thanks!


----------



## toodamnice (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is ******* and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .
> 
> The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:
> 
> ...



I want to thank you for this excellent review. I am very much an amateur but I really want an R5 or an R6. I have 2 6Ds and I am looking to sell my new 6D Mk II to Adorama. I storm chase and love to take sky and landscape shots. I was leaning towards the R6 for cost, but I want a few more MPs than the 20 MPs I have with my current cameras. I would like to be able to have more detail so I can crop when needed. 

Most of you folks are more knowledgeable than me so I want to ask if you feel there is a big difference between the sensor in the R6 and the ones in my 6Ds. I am sure everything else about the R6 is a vast improvement over my old cameras.

Reviews like this one are very helpful to people like me. Thanks again.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 31, 2020)

toodamnice said:


> Most of you folks are more knowledgeable than me so I want to ask if you feel there is a big difference between the sensor in the R6 and the ones in my 6Ds.



In terms of dynamic range for landscapes, it'll be very drastic improvement.


----------



## Eric Mazzone (Jul 31, 2020)

Has anyones local shops gotten the R5 in? Mine was supposed to get some in for those who preordered through them, but I haven't gotten a call and IF I have to wait until November I WILL be jumping ship to Sony and returning ALL the RF gear I've purchased for a full refund.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 31, 2020)

Eric Mazzone said:


> Has anyones local shops gotten the R5 in? Mine was supposed to get some in for those who preordered through them, but I haven't gotten a call and IF I have to wait until November I WILL be jumping ship to Sony and returning ALL the RF gear I've purchased for a full refund.



Where I ordered they had 30 (pre)orders and received 4. I wasn't in the first 4.


----------



## Eric Mazzone (Jul 31, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Where I ordered they had 30 (pre)orders and received 4. I wasn't in the first 4.


When I spoke to my shop, their order got redirected to LensRentals instead. I was at the top of my stores list, like #1, if LensRentals has MY camera they better ship it back to me.

Needless to say, I'm plenty pissed off right now.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 31, 2020)

quilatoo said:


> Eh? The improvement of RF lenses is mainly the width of the mount, right? So we end up with better quality glass outright and amazing stuff like f2 zoom lenses. It hasn't made the EF lenses obsolete though and a big part of Canon's marketing with the launch of the RF mount is its backwards compatibility with existing lenses.
> 
> If, to get the most out of a $3,800/£4,200 camera, you actually also need to spend thousands more in upgrading lenses for a new mount then I think it's fair enough to have some general reservations about it. It also removes the advantage Canon has in a customer already being financially committed to their previous lens mount, and puts them squarely in competition with Sony.
> 
> Basically, I like Canon cameras and have never considered anything else for "serious" work. I've never been that fussed over the quality of Canon lenses in the past five years or so to think the extra expense over Tamron and Sigma versions is worth it. It would be a bit of a disappointment if those lenses ended up being reduced in ability purely because they're third party rather than a genuine physical characteristic.


The width of the mount is the same. The distance to the sensor has just changed.


----------



## Darrell Cadieux (Jul 31, 2020)

Just as a sidebar question. Has anybody here read or heard of the R5 overheating doing regular stills photography?


----------



## quilatoo (Jul 31, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> The width of the mount is the same. The distance to the sensor has just changed.


Ah yeah you're right I got that bit confused.


----------



## SteveC (Jul 31, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I find unboxing videos hilarious. Anyone interested in the camera would have looked at it on the Canon website? It's a box with some packaging, a camera, a strap, battery, charger and manual for heavens sake.



I guess it depends on what's being unboxed.

Live reptiles can be interesting, since they can have a mind of their own and might be in a bad mood when you open the box.

On the other hand, apparently this camera could burst into flames at any moment.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 31, 2020)

Eric Mazzone said:


> When I spoke to my shop, their order got redirected to LensRentals instead. I was at the top of my stores list, like #1, if LensRentals has MY camera they better ship it back to me.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm plenty pissed off right now.



I've been on the other side of that, having to explain to my customer that HQ diverted their order to another customer. Or rather having to not say that while also not lying :/


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is ******* and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .
> 
> The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:
> 
> ...




Great review and nice touches throughout. Thanks.


----------



## HikeBike (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> It’s not selling as well according to my sources. The R5 preorders beat it in a landslide. One salesman I talked to said he hadn’t taken a single order for an R6 yet.


Thanks for the info!


----------



## RunAndGun (Jul 31, 2020)

Darrell Cadieux said:


> Just as a sidebar question. Has anybody here read or heard of the R5 overheating doing regular stills photography?



Not exactly. But I think I did hear about some YouTube celeb shooting a bunch of stills, then shooting video and the stills shooting drastically cut into the video thermal limit window.


----------



## RunAndGun (Jul 31, 2020)

Eric Mazzone said:


> Has anyones local shops gotten the R5 in? Mine was supposed to get some in for those who preordered through them, but I haven't gotten a call and IF I have to wait until November I WILL be jumping ship to Sony and returning ALL the RF gear I've purchased for a full refund.





koenkooi said:


> Where I ordered they had 30 (pre)orders and received 4. I wasn't in the first 4.



Pre-ordering from the big boys is always your best bet for this type of thing, because their allotments will always be much greater than the small shops.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

Respinder said:


> As other influencers have mentioned in their videos




I honestly couldn't care less about influencers. They want clicks. They want sponsors. In most cases they're are narcissists begging for attention.

YMMV.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 31, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> Pre-ordering from the big boys is always your best bet for this type of thing, because their allotments will always be much greater than the small shops.



Those didn't have enough either here in .nl


----------



## SteveC (Jul 31, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> An announcement is over due for those cameras at this point. I am already eyeing 3 a7sIIIs to be my 3 compact cinema cameras. At least for events.



Really? You're going to go with another overheating camera, one where the manufacturer isn't in the least up front and willing to own the issue?


----------



## SteveC (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I honestly couldn't care less about influencers. They want clicks. They want sponsors. In most cases they're are narcissist attention seekers begging for attention.
> 
> YMMV.



Maybe you don't pay attention to them, which is commendable, but Canon shouldn't ignore the fact that many people DO listen to them.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 31, 2020)

Kiton said:


> If you find a way to remove some of the useless shit displayed on the play back screen, I would love to know, I really do not care to see if Flicker is engaged or not etc etc! Thanks!


I may be wrong but I believe in one of the menus you can untick things to display.


----------



## kingrobertii (Jul 31, 2020)

Got mine in yesterday, and loving it so far. Will be doing some heavy testing this weekend but so far, it is a huge improvement over my R.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 31, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Again, I think Canons only sin here was overhyping the 8k aspect of the camera.



Did they *over* hype it though? I've mentioned this on a couple of previous threads but does nobody remember the reaction to the rumour of 8K back in early 2020? Nobody seemed to believe it would be proper 8K for more than a very short time - some said it would be a timelapse, others that it would be a few seconds long etc. Twenty minutes of 8K is still _far more than any other comparable camera can do_. Honestly the change in perspctive on this is mind boggling! (Not aiming this at you, but the general mood on this forum).


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> It's kinda sad out here, a whole industry (and sponsored gravy train) has sprung up around *testing/testers/ambassadors/etc* -- objectivity plus real world feedback has gone out the window.
> 
> None wants to bite the hand that feeds them, it appears.
> 
> ...




This is why I like to read here and other camera forums - you generally can get a sense of what normal everyday people think - pros and hobbists - without any of the Youtube/Influencer crap.


----------



## VegasCameraGuy (Jul 31, 2020)

Just got off the phone with B&H and MY R5 body is shipping today or Monday at the latest! Woo Hoo! They have hit my PayBoo account with the cost of the body, which confirms that my R5 Body is somewhere in the shipping department (please don't drop it)! I ordered my R5 at about 5 AM on 7/9/20 PST when the Pre-Order first went up and so I got in on the first shipment. My Frenchie and I will probably be eating dog food for a while but at least I'll be able to take pictures!

According to the salesperson, there is no truth to the rumor that Canon has recalled the R5 to fix overheating issues and they are out of stock because the number of orders has exceeded the supply. Using the B&H PayBoo card saved me over $500 in sales tax! That's not to say that Canon won't address this issue but hopefully can use a firmware upgrade to lessen the problem.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Jul 31, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Really? You're going to go with another overheating camera, one where the manufacturer isn't in the least up front and willing to own the issue?


What issue. I dont plan to shoot 4k 120 or 8k. Until the R5 gets rid of the stupid 30 minute limit and enable dual slot recording like the cinema cameras. I cant use it for serious work if other options exist. Also the sony dr and low light is superior since canon wont give it c log 3 unless we beg them for it. at this point the sony is massively more convenient and I will feel more comfortable to use them in a work environment. We will see what happens.


----------



## SteveC (Jul 31, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> What issue. I dont plan to shoot 4k 120 or 8k. Until the R5 gets rid of the stupid 30 minute limit and enable dual slot recording like the cinema cameras. I cant use it for serious work if other options exist. Also the sony dr and low light is superior since canon wont give it c log 3 unless we beg them for it. at this point the sony is massively more convenient and I will feel more comfortable to use them in a work environment. We will see what happens.



Ah, OK...totally different issues!


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Maybe you don't pay attention to them, which is commendable, but Canon shouldn't ignore the fact that many people DO listen to them.



I get that. People are enamored with short attention span videos and take what the people say as gospel.

Take the 8K situation - somehow it became the headlining feature of this camera. Why? IMO because the influencers grabbed it like a dog with a bone and hyped expectations without knowing anything about what the production specs would reveal. By the time the camera got here it didn't matter anymore - it was destined to fall short because anything short of a full cinema camera would.

The way people talk about these Youtubers is like they are their long lost relatives or someone who has no business pressure to say one thing or the other.

It's ridiculous and more than a little sad..


----------



## Krispy (Jul 31, 2020)

zim said:


> I read elsewhere that it's like the Kindle paper white display so shouldn't be using battery when switched off?


shouldn't being keyword. It's weird that I can only find one thread talking about this on some other forum.


----------



## Danglin52 (Jul 31, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I may be wrong but I believe in one of the menus you can untick things to display.


When I say overhype, I was reference more that was their lead in on the R5. They NEVER sated any capability and to your comment most people did not believe the spec. The problem is that the issues was totally blown ourt of proportion by the reviewers. We seem to have a culture that is more interested in finding flaws that recognizing IBIS (which can you have spotlighted more), Animal / People AF, etc. I am not sure it would have made a difference in the long run, but a lot of folks want controversy that will generate more clicks, likes and even negative reaction. I have had a very realistic view since learning about the 8k and my expectation was 3-5 minute clips at most.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Did they *over* hype it though? I've mentioned this on a couple of previous threads but does nobody remember the reaction to the rumour of 8K back in early 2020? Nobody seemed to believe it would be proper 8K for more than a very short time - some said it would be a timelapse, others that it would be a few seconds long etc. Twenty minutes of 8K is still _far more than any other comparable camera can do_. Honestly the change in perspctive on this is mind boggling! (Not aiming this at you, but the general mood on this forum).




No, you're right. Canon didn't hype it, idiots on Youtube etc did.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> Just got off the phone with B&H and MY R5 body is shipping today or Monday at the latest! Woo Hoo! They have hit my PayBoo account with the cost of the body, which confirms that my R5 Body is somewhere in the shipping department (please don't drop it)! I ordered my R5 at about 5 AM on 7/9/20 PST when the Pre-Order first went up and so I got in on the first shipment. My Frenchie and I will probably be eating dog food for a while but at least I'll be able to take pictures!
> 
> According to the salesperson, there is no truth to the rumor that Canon has recalled the R5 to fix overheating issues and they are out of stock because the number of orders has exceeded the supply. Using the B&H PayBoo card saved me over $500 in sales tax! That's not to say that Canon won't address this issue but hopefully can use a firmware upgrade to lessen the problem.




I just got off the phone with B&H and I'm *******.


----------



## Viggo (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I get that. People are enamored with short attention span videos and take what the people say as gospel.
> 
> Take the 8K situation - somehow it became the headlining feature of this camera. Why? IMO because the influencers grabbed it like a dog with a bone and hyped expectations without knowing anything about what the production specs would reveal. By the time the camera got here it didn't matter anymore - it was destined to fall short because anything short of a full cinema camera would.
> 
> ...


Amen.


----------



## PhotoRN86 (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I just got off the phone with B&H and I'm *******.



How so??


----------



## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> According to the salesperson, there is no truth to the rumor that Canon has recalled the R5 to fix overheating issues and they are out of stock because the number of orders has exceeded the supply. Using the B&H PayBoo card saved me over $500 in sales tax! That's not to say that Canon won't address this issue but hopefully can use a firmware upgrade to lessen the problem.



Clearly, there is no recall, yet. That would be public information.

Canon will likely address the issue through CPS or otherwise. Note however that the evidence points towards an inadequate thermal interface between the overheating component (likely DIGIC X processor) and heatsink (body) since the body seems to stay "cool" while the camera overheats internally.
This can be due to manufacturing or design and requires likely a (modest effort) HW fix. Firmware can improve ("generate less heat" or "allow higher temperatures"). However, software cannot really solve the above.


----------



## bergstrom (Jul 31, 2020)

This is an absolute nail in the coffin of the R6 and I was really hoping to buy it.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
> That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?



I saw another list, on this forum, that did include the 70-200 2.8 II. This would be a very expensive RF "repurchase" if it needs to be replaced. Hoping some in-depth reviewers with both lenses can compare.


----------



## mppix (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I get that. People are enamored with short attention span videos and take what the people say as gospel.
> 
> Take the 8K situation - somehow it became the headlining feature of this camera. Why? IMO because the influencers grabbed it like a dog with a bone and hyped expectations without knowing anything about what the production specs would reveal. By the time the camera got here it didn't matter anymore - it was destined to fall short because anything short of a full cinema camera would.
> 
> ...



Yes. However, Canon marketing also led with 8K as unique distinguishing features as opposed to market leading AF, market leading 8 stop IBIS, [email protected] etc.
Youtubers and independent reviewers need to find a "news" to be relevant and an underperforming headline grabbing feature is perfect for that..


----------



## kimster (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I honestly couldn't care less about influencers. They want clicks. They want sponsors. In most cases they're are narcissist attention seekers begging for attention.
> 
> YMMV.


Spot on. They really are attention seeking narcissists in the main. Failed actors and politicians.


----------



## snappy604 (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Tony hit all the points, great analysis. Managing Electronic shutter, and Electronic first Curtain (EFCS) are a pain on the Sony's too. There's no way to manage them properly, unless you're constantly menu diving. FUJI have a very elegant way to manage the shutter, I wish the others would copy it.




thanks and thought he did a decent enough job, but he kept flashing the 20 FPS for Electronic shutter and knew there were options ... I think you're saying it doesn't matter which of the electronic shutter settings, it's likely to get banding either way.

found what had triggered my question.. I'd seen it in this video at 12min mark approx 



 ... 3 options for shutter. Mechanical, Electronic and Electronic 1st curtain. I knew the 20 FPS (The one Tony spoke about) would be fast and have compromises.. but thought maybe the other acted more like mechanical due to the slower FPS.


----------



## Whowe (Jul 31, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> For stills, I cannot figure out how to get the focus point to move when I move the joystick without first pressing the focus spot button. Time to read the manual.




Under Customize Buttons (Camera Settings icon, tab 3), you can set the multidirection joystick to "Direct AF Point Selection"


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 31, 2020)

Whowe said:


> Under Customize Buttons (Camera Settings icon, tab 3), you can set the multidirection joystick to "Direct AF Point Selection"


Thank you I was just trying to sort that out. As a R user I do like the touch and drag but it is nice to have the option!!!!


----------



## scyrene (Jul 31, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I would love [...] that Canon has a quick fix for shipped bodies to enable 8K recording for hours and hours but I'm not holding my breath.



Are you serious?


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 31, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> I'm loving the RF glass, best on the market, the pint size 70-200/2.8 is fantastic...



I love it too, but maybe "quart-sized" is more apt?


----------



## Besisika (Jul 31, 2020)

Hi guys, most probably this has been discussed somewhere but I must have missed it. Somehow I cannot find a place online where they have an RF/EF adapter available. It looks like they are in backorder. I don't have any RF lens. Any suggestion/idea?


----------



## scyrene (Jul 31, 2020)

Respinder said:


> One also has to admire the approach that Sony has taken over the past few years - building an army of goodwill, or a cult of Sony (like a Cult of Apple in a way), that really expresses loyalty to the brand, which has also resulted in continued customers transitioning from Nikon and Canon over to Sony.



tl;dr but no, I don't admire that. Whether or not it was a deliberate strategy on their part, Sony trolls bring down the level of discussion on this forum and sometimes make it an unpleasant place to be. I'd rather everyone discussed the pros and cons of products, their desires and hopes, their techniques, etc, rather than the juvenile name calling we see so often online. If that's the model to ape, then count me out of forums in future (thankfully, usually this is just temporary, I'm sure it'll all die down in a few months' time).


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 31, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Hi guys, most probably this has been discussed somewhere but I must have missed it. Somehow I cannot find a place online where they have an RF/EF adapter available. It looks like they are in backorder. I don't have any RF lens. Any suggestion/idea?


Sorry I cannot help, they seems to be back ordered everywhere.

Interestingly when the R and the RP came out they were giving them away with the kits and loads of them were on craigslist so I bought 1 for each of my EF lens (I hated switching it) they were super cheap.

Edit: Have you looked at the RF 35 1.8? I really like this little lens and it is cheap. Something to start the RF collection and get you shooting.


----------



## tron (Jul 31, 2020)

Joules said:


> The firmware fix: Disable the video features. Give those forum posters what they always say they want


 And cut the price in half!


----------



## Nelu (Jul 31, 2020)

Eric Mazzone said:


> Has anyones local shops gotten the R5 in? Mine was supposed to get some in for those who preordered through them, but I haven't gotten a call and IF I have to wait until November I WILL be jumping ship to Sony and returning ALL the RF gear I've purchased for a full refund.


Wow, that sounds scary, Canon, watch out!


----------



## Nelu (Jul 31, 2020)

RunAndGun said:


> Not exactly. But I think I did hear about some YouTube celeb shooting a bunch of stills, then shooting video and the stills shooting drastically cut into the video thermal limit window.


Well, it looks like for some of the "YouTube celeb" the R5 is overheating while unboxing...


----------



## David_E (Jul 31, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Hi guys, most probably this has been discussed somewhere but I must have missed it. Somehow I cannot find a place online where they have an RF/EF adapter available. It looks like they are in backorder. I don't have any RF lens. Any suggestion/idea?


Amazon has Canon-brand adapters used at premium prices. There are a few Canon-brand adapters on Ebay, most shipping from Hong Kong or Japan.


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## David_E (Jul 31, 2020)

Eric Mazzone said:


> Has anyones local shops gotten the R5 in? Mine was supposed to get some in for those who preordered through them, but I haven't gotten a call and IF I have to wait until November I WILL be jumping ship to Sony and returning ALL the RF gear I've purchased for a full refund.


Wow! Fickle _and_ impatient! Buying local is great _if_ you have a local store, which I don’t. But if you wanted one early, why didn’t you order from Adorama or B&H on 9 July? Received my R5 from B&H yesterday.


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> The situation is overblown as always. Every time Canon has an issue the world is ending according to some news sites.
> 
> The a7sIII shuts down in 30 minutes recording 4k24p. They should recall even this camera right?
> 
> Sony a7S III heat testing update. Had it out again for one last set of tests before returning our pre-production unit to Sony. Once again bright sunny day, mid-afternoon, 90F, but this time lower humidity (31% vs 51%). Auto temp power off set to high (again), but this time rear screen swung a full 180 degrees away from body. Only lasted 30 minutes this time. For now, my results are very similar to Dan Watson’s down in Florida.



Follow Philip Bloom for accurate A7Slll content, to my knowledge, he's had the camera for the past 8 weeks. His (unpaid) extended review is due out soon.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 31, 2020)

Eric Mazzone said:


> Has anyones local shops gotten the R5 in? Mine was supposed to get some in for those who preordered through them, but I haven't gotten a call and IF I have to wait until November I WILL be jumping ship to Sony and returning ALL the RF gear I've purchased for a full refund.



If you are a videographer and you won't lose any money returning gear, I'd say go for it. The A7SIII is a near perfect video camera as long as IBIS is not that important to you.

If photos are important to you, or you have some kind of balanced hybrid workflow, I'd stick with the R5. This is assuming you can work with the heating and recording time limitations.


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## neurorx (Jul 31, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Sure the newer EF lenses are going to be great but expect compatibility issues galore for older EF lenses. That was never mentioned. When the EOS 1R comes out next year, it’s going to be a punch in the gut if you don’t already have all new glass.


Has there been any update on an R1 next year? This would be great news.


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## Starting out EOS R (Jul 31, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> When I say overhype, I was reference more that was their lead in on the R5. They NEVER sated any capability and to your comment most people did not believe the spec. The problem is that the issues was totally blown ourt of proportion by the reviewers. We seem to have a culture that is more interested in finding flaws that recognizing IBIS (which can you have spotlighted more), Animal / People AF, etc. I am not sure it would have made a difference in the long run, but a lot of folks want controversy that will generate more clicks, likes and even negative reaction. I have had a very realistic view since learning about the 8k and my expectation was 3-5 minute clips at most.


Hi, I'm not sure your reply was meant for me? Obviously something has annoyed you but not sure what it is as I dont think any of my posts have been critical of anyone??


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## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> The width of the mount is the same. The distance to the sensor has just changed.



That's the big one, doing away with retrofocus lens design issues, and getting the lens closer to the sensor.

I always wondered how much difference the wider/bigger mounts actually made in practice, the Zeiss OTUS always tested better on Nikon's tiny mount, same glass, just on a different mount. 

Back in the day, the tiny mount of Leica M's always tested better than the SLR's too, no mirror box again.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 31, 2020)

Viggo said:


> YeS, they released a new model.


Why is it I think that if Canon had released an 8k shooting 12mp camera the Sony crowd would be here laughing?


----------



## jcfalconer (Jul 31, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Hi guys, most probably this has been discussed somewhere but I must have missed it. Somehow I cannot find a place online where they have an RF/EF adapter available. It looks like they are in backorder. I don't have any RF lens. Any suggestion/idea?


Time to start your RF lens collection, then.


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## davidhfe (Jul 31, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Are you serious?



I'm serious that I would love it 

But I suppose I was being too hyperbolic? I am in no way shape or form expecting that, nor do I think Canon needs to do it, and people should in no way expect it.


----------



## kimster (Jul 31, 2020)

Technology continues to de-skill us. (In a good way 








The Canon EOS R5 is a CHEAT CODE for wildlife photography


Animal AF on the Canon EOS R5 is so good that skill is no longer required for wildlife photos – just point and shoot!




www.digitalcameraworld.com




Early trials with my own R5 bear this out. Crazy good!


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## Viggo (Jul 31, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> This is an absolute nail in the coffin of the R6 and I was really hoping to buy it.


But just listen to what he says; Canon has been very upfront and have written down what you can record and for how long. The End. That he still thinks it’s “just on paper” and completely different to experience in the field than to read it on paper is utter bullshit.

no one ever said this is a replacement for the Cinema series, and they are indeed open and with fans. WTF did people expect?

I tried to use my TV as a surfboard, it failed, and now I can’t even watch anything on it. RECALL RECALL MAJOR ISSUE!

please


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## tolmasky (Jul 31, 2020)

Being on the west coast, I set my alarm for 5:30AM to order the R5 once it was announced (I've never participated in a camera "launch" before, so I figured it would be like Apple products that go on sale once they are announced -- not once the presentation starts). As such, I am fairly certain I bought it within the first hour of it being available on B&H (my confirmation email didn't arrive until around 6:03AM). The R5 availability email from B&H arrived at 5:23AM, so at worst I ordered it in the first 40 minutes I believe. Anyways, I guess that was too late because today I received the backorder email from B&H, so I guess I probably won't be getting it until November? I've gone ahead and canceled my RF lens orders, and will probably be returning the only one that's arrived so far -- it doesn't make sense to have them sitting around unused and eating up their one month return period. I'll reorder them closer to the actual ship date in case there's any issues with them that I can't find until actually trying them. At this point I don't know what to want -- if there's going to be some hardware change I guess I prefer to be part of the second batch? Who knows. I have to say that regardless of the product itself, this launch seems... chaotic. The email from B&H seems really vague, saying it is "still backordered", treating it like I purchased an existing item that was clearly marked backordered at the time, instead of the reality of being one of the first to order an item in very short supply and messaging it that way (this portion is of course not Canon's fault, but it's part of a larger weird experience).


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> This is why I like to read here and other camera forums - you generally can get a sense of what normal everyday people think - pros and hobbists - without any of the Youtube/Influencer crap.



I'm a former Canon 5D shooter, one who switched to Sony when they introduced the original A7R, and *purely for the EVF* as I had a need for "run & gun video."

Very interested in the RF glass, its perfect for my requirements; 15-35 (stabilized for video), 50/1.2 (portrait/GP lens), and that super compact 70-200/2.8 (this one is superb), that's it, I'm happy.

Simply here trying to figure out *if* this new R5 is going to work for me. So far, on the stills side, it ticks all the boxes, bar the electronic shutter being capped at 1/8000th, that's the one issue I have with the A7RlV too.

The video side looks superb (if the overheat issue can be resolved via firmware). I'm hopeful here as Sony had the same issues early on, every early Sony model suffered the overheat issue, and If I remember correctly, it was the A7Rll that overheated in 4K until we got a firmware update and then it became a non-issue.

So I'm hopeful Canon can offer up firmware a fix too. 

Maybe Canon just need to be less conservative on the thermal cut-out point, and raise it a little, we suspected thats what Sort did early on too.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Jul 31, 2020)

adigoks said:


> gerald undone had tested R5 recording using atomos external recorder.
> he said 4K 60 recording using external recorder is fine & not limited by heat.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286856342385446912


Thanks for the info, already saw this when he first posted it and I immediately ordered a Ninja V. Got hte Ninja V, but my R5 is delayed. However while this gives me limitless 4K60 it still means that if I ever want to use the 4K120 mode I must do so at the start of a shooting day, otherwise the accumulated heat buildup will already be too much for the camera to even start recording.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Jul 31, 2020)

scyrene said:


> tl;dr but no, I don't admire that. Whether or not it was a deliberate strategy on their part, Sony trolls bring down the level of discussion on this forum and sometimes make it an unpleasant place to be. I'd rather everyone discussed the pros and cons of products, their desires and hopes, their techniques, etc, rather than the juvenile name calling we see so often online. If that's the model to ape, then count me out of forums in future (thankfully, usually this is just temporary, I'm sure it'll all die down in a few months' time).



True, for the most part. But they're all doing it now, if you've got less than 100K followers on Instagram, you've got no marketable voice. Take Canon's launch of the R5, did they get the R5 into the hands of https://viiphoto.com or any Magnum/AP/Reuters shooters? All I saw where Social Media Influencers. Nikon got slated for doing the very same thing too. It's a different world, as Sony have successfully proven with their mirrorless marketing campaigns.


----------



## tron (Jul 31, 2020)

If EOS R5 (and possibly R6) overheats even just by being turned on maybe the reason is its cpu running all the time instead of being idle. Maybe (just maybe) there is a chance that this can be fixed in firmware.

But I mentioned an IF and a MAYBE so ...


----------



## Besisika (Jul 31, 2020)

jcfalconer said:


> Time to start your RF lens collection, then.


My primary cam is still 1DX II, I can't grab a lens just for one, need for both.


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 31, 2020)

Ramage said:


> 64gig SD card is candy to this monster.



I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I may as well ask what is the advice for an amateur still photographer who never owned more than a 32G card, and never seems to have filled that? With this, it's more data per image and more per second. 

Will I be happy with 64G or get 128G if in doubt?
Is it sensible to have the card sizes match each other?
Should I worry about better that 90 write speed on a SDXC UHS-II? If not that's a cheap one.


----------



## Pixel (Jul 31, 2020)

So testing my 600 f4 IS today on the R5 and it is significantly slow on mechanical shutter and a tick faster on 1st curtain electronic shutter. 
So older EF lenses are indeed crippled. However my Sigma 135 f1.8A worked almost perfectly, not 100% sure it was as fast as newer EF glass but I was pleased.


----------



## snappy604 (Jul 31, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> With all the talk on overheating, firmware updates & recalls, Armondo's video was interesting, along with some other reviews that said when the camera was warning it was overheating and about to shut down, it actually didn't feel hot and neither did the battery or the CF / SD cards???
> 
> I do wonder if an issue could be, that the overheating warning is linked to a timer and not directly to a temperature gauge and the warning is actually happening way before the camera actually gets to a critical stage, meaning in reality record times could be significantly longer than the warning says? Maybe this is what will happen with the firmware update to change the parameters, or perhaps add some form of temperature sensor that will mean the warning comes up only when it is actually relevant??


with my older 7D I used to get warning.. outside felt fine, but the battery and CF card were hot. It wasn't good at transferring heat, mostly because it was built like a tank.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 31, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> with my older 7D I used to get warning.. outside felt fine, but the battery and CF card were hot. It wasn't good at transferring heat, mostly because it was built like a tank.


I remember those days. A days shoot was like a workout lol.


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 31, 2020)

zim said:


> I read elsewhere that it's like the Kindle paper white display so shouldn't be using battery when switched off?



That's what it looks like. Just shows "Av" (or whatever mode) when off or asleep while on.


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## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

PhotoRN86 said:


> How so??



Well, I'm not blaming anyone but I ordered R5/Grip/CFE Memory Card/Battery. Got the Grip and Memory Card.

- warranty is ticking on my grip and I have no camera to stick it n.

- 30 day no-questions return on the grip expires in 30 days.

- because I ordered on launch day I now only have 68 days remaining to add a Canon Care Plan if I choose to.

- if I choose to return everything they shipped me and wait for better availability, then I have to pay the costs and I lose my place in line.

- not going to open memory card because it might to be returned and I can't test it anyway.

- not going to open the grip because it might need to be returned and can't test it anyway.

Just luck of the draw, but these are little bits that came up along the way.


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## Kalleno (Jul 31, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Well, I'm not blaming anyone but I ordered R5/Grip/CFE Memory Card/Battery. Got the Grip and Memory Card.
> 
> - warranty is ticking on my grip and I have no camera to stick it n.
> 
> - 30 day no-questions return on the grip expires in 30 days.



I feel you. Sitting on a RF L Glass without the ability to test it, because of that R5 shipping times. But it is all under warranty, so not that an issue.


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## kimster (Jul 31, 2020)

I live on the west coast and this was my first pre-order. My order was timestamped 8:08am. I was told that I had missed the cut but then to my surprise the camera showed up yesterday and the grip today. I am keeping the packaging because despite my early tests and happiness, I am truly wobbled by everything that is going on. It would not take much now for me to return the items. I have cancelled the 100-500 and 800 lenses plus the CF EXpress card. Guess I have 28 days for some clarity?And for those who are thinking of returning their R5s now, mikeanthonyphoto on ebay is offering an R5 body for $5,750. I think gouging is horrible but between now and November maybe somebody other than B&H would like your camera. Do the right thing and sell it for what you paid please guys.


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## tolmasky (Jul 31, 2020)

kimster said:


> I live on the west coast and this was my first pre-order. My order was timestamped 8:08am. I was told that I had missed the cut but then to my surprise the camera showed up yesterday and the grip today. I am keeping the packaging because despite my early tests and happiness, I am truly wobbled by everything that is going on. It would not take much now for me to return the items. I have cancelled the 100-500 and 800 lenses plus the CF EXpress card. Guess I have 28 days for some clarity?And for those who are thinking of returning their R5s now, mikeanthonyphoto on ebay is offering an R5 body for $5,750. I think gouging is horrible but between now and November maybe somebody other than B&H would like your camera. Do the right thing and sell it for what you paid please guys.


Did you buy it on B&H or somewhere else? My order went in at 6:00AM and I missed the cut.


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## kimster (Jul 31, 2020)

B&H. 


tolmasky said:


> Did you buy it on B&H or somewhere else? My order went in at 6:00AM and I missed the cut.


B&H. The order was timestamped at 5:08 am West Coast


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## TomR (Jul 31, 2020)

ive had this happen


Bert63 said:


> Well, I'm not blaming anyone but I ordered R5/Grip/CFE Memory Card/Battery. Got the Grip and Memory Card.
> 
> - warranty is ticking on my grip and I have no camera to stick it n.
> 
> ...




Ive had this happen to me on another shipment, i asked them about it and BH told me i have the option the ship everything at once if i requested it. Might have saved you here.


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 31, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Ah, OK...totally different issues!


I already have an r5 and another one on its way. I do both video and photography heavy. I will be using my R5 tomorrow for 3 video jobs and a photoshoot tomorrow.


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## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

TomR said:


> ive had this happen
> 
> 
> 
> Ive had this happen to me on another shipment, i asked them about it and BH told me i have the option the ship everything at once if i requested it. Might have saved you here.




They told me this too, AFTER I called them this morning to talk about it. They never mentioned it before that.

Double edged sword. If the camera came in but the grip was backordered, the camera might have shipped or it might have gone to someone who ordered body only.

He said it was confusing and sometimes the way they did it made no sense. I know people who got their camera but no grip, and others that got the grip but no camera.


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## Bert63 (Jul 31, 2020)

Kalleno said:


> I feel you. Sitting on a RF L Glass without the ability to test it, because of that R5 shipping times. But it is all under warranty, so not that an issue.




Your glass warranty is ticking. If this really goes until November, that's a long time to tick with no use.


----------



## cornieleous (Jul 31, 2020)

*My real customer overheating test. Bought my R5 through BH Photo on 7/9 @ 6:05am and it arrived here yesterday.

SUMMARY: R5 video test w/ 24-105mm F4L mk 1 on the control ring RF adapter. In direct sunlight @ 85 degrees ambient with low air flow, 5000kft altitude, moderate humidity. Camera mostly stationary. I was able to get the R5 to do the following, back to back:*

*30 mins 4K60P *
*30 mins 1080P*
*Took a couple stills, no issues*
*30 mins 4K30P*
*8.5 mins 4K60P. The thermal warning started flashing right away when this recording started.*
*Automatic Thermal Shutdown @ 8.5 mins into second 4K60P*
*20 minute cool down in 75 degrees with airflow (normal AC house)*
*Restarted with no thermal warning for 4K60P*
*Ended test*
*Compared temp at various times against powered off 5D4 and 6D both also in the direct sunlight. At end of all tests, R5 was 10-15 degrees hotter than powered off cameras.

DETAILS:*

Worked from home today and ran this test to see if the R5 meets MY needs. Here was the procedure and results in more detail:

Let a room in my house warm up with hot outside air for an hour (84 degrees outside right now, elevation 5000 feet, mid humidity). Thermostat outside room stated 82, but warmer in the room by the window. We'll say 85 degrees is the approximate ambient air temp.

Set the R5 in direct sunlight next to my 6D and 5D4 bodies (both powered-off) on my large windowsill in the warm room. The window was raised and wide open to let the sun hit the bodies directly; no breeze or air flow today.

Loaded off brand LP-E6 (not the new type) into R5 at 95% charge.

Filmed 30 minutes of 4K60P (IPB).

About 12 minutes in, picked up and moved the camera swiftly, zoomed, and did some focusing and hand holds to make the IBIS work hard for about 1.5-2 minutes, then put R5 back in the direct sun, still filming. At recording time limit of 29:59 the recording was stopped normally. No overheating warning. The body was slightly warmer than the powered off 6D and 5D4 right next to it by the end of the first 4K60P shoot at 29:59.

Quickly switched to FHD 1080P and ran 30 more minutes still in direct sun. Nothing but slight increase in warmth as the camera ran in the sun. Temp. at end of this run was warmer than the 5D4 and 6D (both still powered off) but still not hot. No overheating.

Too a couple stills just for the heck of it. No issues.

Immediately switched to 4K30P and started another 30 minutes, still in direct sun. 9 minutes in, the battery was down to about 15% so I decided to stop recording and quickly swap it with a fresh one. Ran 4K30P for another 20 minutes in direct sun and stopped the recording. I'd estimate the body was now about 10 degrees hotter than the powered off bodies. I used a super cheapo thermometer and measured 101 degrees on the inside of the grip.

Switched back to 4K60 and temp warning started flashing. Recorded for 8.5 minutes and the camera hit auto thermal shutdown. At the end of the test it was certainly warm, like any object left in the sun, but not alarmingly hot. Estimate now about 12-15 degrees hotter than the 5D4 and 6D that were powered off throughout test.

Carried shutdown camera to room with the AC going and let it sit for about 20 minutes. At the end of the cooling period, I powered on and checked 4K60, and was able to start recording with no thermal warning. Did not record for long as I was satisfied with the test.

For MY needs, this is going to be just fine. I am sure I could have recorded 1080P or 4K30P for much longer. I will rarely shoot for long with video above 90 or 95 degrees ambient in the sun, so I have no worries. This is a stills beast with competent video. If you are a wedding or event photographer, this camera behaves about exactly as Canon says or slightly better: I got the 35 minutes of 4K60P promised in direct sun plus all that other lower rate shooting. You can be mad it is not enough, or you can buy a video camera. Most similar small form cameras are not going to run that much longer in these tiny bodies, it is just physics. To me, I heard what was said about the camera and didn't let hype let me think it could do it all, and I think I am going to be very happy with it.

I appreciate different needs exist than mine, but hope people can learn to be constructive and objective and DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH instead of watching endless talking heads or listening to marketers. Learning a little about electronics, thermal transfer, and how cameras are constructed can go a long way to help you know for yourself what a camera is designed for.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 1, 2020)

check out this video not mine but thought it looked so nice the slow mo Humming bird


----------



## Kiton (Aug 1, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Where I ordered they had 30 (pre)orders and received 4. I wasn't in the first 4.



I don't deal with the biggest store in town, I deal with the best shop in town  , a small shop where the owner is still on the floor and loves photography as much today as he did when he was a kid. He had 16 pre sold and only got 4. 

4 seems to be the magic number for the smaller shops.
I got mine, so I am happy. 

Given all the talk of the coming delays, where there is smoke, there is fire, maybe you want to wait!
Come a few months from now, maybe I will regret being the first guy to get the camera!


----------



## kimster (Aug 1, 2020)

The EOS R grip came with a charger. The R5 grip arrived today with no charger. Anyone? Thank you.


----------



## sanj (Aug 1, 2020)

Ramage said:


> check out this video not mine but thought it looked so nice the slow mo Humming bird


I see artefacts including banding right throughout.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 1, 2020)

sanj said:


> I see artefacts including banding right throughout.


Yeah that's what I got out of the video as well...


----------



## RunAndGun (Aug 1, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Those didn't have enough either here in .nl



But B&H and Adorama(the big boys) still had more than any independent dealer, which is what I said. More and enough are two different things. More may or may not be enough, but more is still more. ; )


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 1, 2020)

tolmasky said:


> Being on the west coast, I set my alarm for 5:30AM to order the R5 once it was announced (I've never participated in a camera "launch" before, so I figured it would be like Apple products that go on sale once they are announced -- not once the presentation starts). As such, I am fairly certain I bought it within the first hour of it being available on B&H (my confirmation email didn't arrive until around 6:03AM). The R5 availability email from B&H arrived at 5:23AM, so at worst I ordered it in the first 40 minutes I believe. Anyways, I guess that was too late because today I received the backorder email from B&H, so I guess I probably won't be getting it until November? I've gone ahead and canceled my RF lens orders, and will probably be returning the only one that's arrived so far -- it doesn't make sense to have them sitting around unused and eating up their one month return period. I'll reorder them closer to the actual ship date in case there's any issues with them that I can't find until actually trying them. At this point I don't know what to want -- if there's going to be some hardware change I guess I prefer to be part of the second batch? Who knows. I have to say that regardless of the product itself, this launch seems... chaotic. The email from B&H seems really vague, saying it is "still backordered", treating it like I purchased an existing item that was clearly marked backordered at the time, instead of the reality of being one of the first to order an item in very short supply and messaging it that way (this portion is of course not Canon's fault, but it's part of a larger weird experience).




Crazy, a difference of 30 mins or so and I got mine. I ordered almost the second it was possible, hitting refresh on BH page while watching the release videos. It was like 6:02AM. I was still not the first shipped, my notice came almost a full day later than some.

Either there are supply problems (I would believe before any other reason) or a lot more have sold than expected. Mine says made in Japan on the bottom but I no longer think you can decode the serials. I really wonder if it is doing well, or a very small number were made.

I have also never pre-ordered, and so I think many of us were beyond tired of waiting to upgrade and ordered. I usually buy refurbished bodies that are at least a year past release. I have never been a must have the newest, but this R5 enables things I was pushing the limits on with the 5D4 often, so I wanted the newest.


----------



## tron (Aug 1, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> ... R5 enables things I was pushing the limits on with the 5D4 often, so I wanted the newest.


Could you elaborate please? Are you referring to video or stills?


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 1, 2020)

Darrell Cadieux said:


> Just as a sidebar question. Has anybody here read or heard of the R5 overheating doing regular stills photography?



No I haven't heard any report of that with only stills. In theory it could IF you heat up the internals enough- the camera does not care what is going on, once it sees a certain temp it shuts down. 

I tested it today by leaving it in direct sunlight at 85 degree ambient air temp. I left it sitting there and took 4K60P IPB video for 30 mins, followed by 30 mins of 1080P video, then 30mins of 4K30P, and took a few stills in the middle. I tired to take another 30 mins of 4K60P and it shut down about 8 mins into that. 20 minutes later the body was cooled in my house AC and back to normal. Shooting stills it I never noticed any appreciable heat. I do notice that the thermal conductivity of whatever magnesium alloy they use feels warm even if you hold the camera powered off in your hands for a few minutes- it conducts heat from any source much more easily than other magnesium bodies from the past. This is a good thing and indicates the body is the heat sink as Canon has stated, and they did think about it. I got basically what Canon promised and more.

Unless you are going to torture it in direct sunlight for a long, long time, I think it will be fine for the vast majority of stills with limited video use. Of course, at higher ambient air, like Phoenix (118 today I heard) the camera will get too hot very fast, but so will any other camera or electronics. If you listen carefully you can hear the reports in the noise that other cameras also overheat, even the A7S3- and it would not be great for stills and to me not that much better for my video needs.


----------



## PUG (Aug 1, 2020)

Nelu said:


> Sorry, I just couldn't resist it!


Haha I like that!


----------



## fisico57 (Aug 1, 2020)

This video is quite convincing. I work in the imaging industry and am very familiar with the amount of time, scrutiny, testing, and validation necessary to get a single feature into production. So I find it extraordinarily ridiculous that overheating was not addressed and solved during testing LONG before these cameras were even officially announced. It was certainly flagged as an issue during that time, yet someone must have made an as-is decision to avoid the production cost of an overhaul and the associated time delay. Ironically, this decision is going to be much more costly for Canon.

On the plus side, I’m a nature photo hobbyist: I don’t do video. So I’m still looking forward to enjoying the R6.


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## koenkooi (Aug 1, 2020)

Loibisch said:


> Thanks for the info, already saw this when he first posted it and I immediately ordered a Ninja V. Got hte Ninja V, but my R5 is delayed. However while this gives me limitless 4K60 it still means that if I ever want to use the 4K120 mode I must do so at the start of a shooting day, otherwise the accumulated heat buildup will already be too much for the camera to even start recording.



What has me worried is the following scenario:

I get up pre-dawn to shoot dragonflies covered with dew. The past week that meant temperatures between 15 and 21C (60-70F). Say I setup the camera on a tripod and start doing focus stacks. About an hour or so later the dragonflies will start moving, so no more focus stacks. I set it to 40k30HQ to film the dragonflies grooming, what will it say for the max record time?

Taking the manual at face value, it should show 20-ish minutes, since it's close or below the ambient temperature listed.

Taking twitter message at face value (I know, I know) it would show 0 minutes since the hour of stills capture will have heated up the internals.

I know that even in the 'no time left' case I can set it to 4k30 low quality and still get great looking footage. But I would feel annoyed 

It would be different if I decided to try doing 4k120 of a grasshopper jumping away since there's no 'safe' mode for that. Maybe the rumoured 1080p120 in the also rumoured firmware update would solve that.

I pre-ordered the R5 for its stills capability, so I'm not cancelling, but I would very much appreciate a firmware update and/or updated manuals to make it more predictable before it gets delivered.


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## SteveC (Aug 1, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I pre-ordered the R5 for its stills capability, so I'm not cancelling, but I would very much appreciate a firmware update and/or updated manuals to make it more predictable before it gets delivered.



My camera has no CFexpress card in it. It has one video mode available that it shouldn't have (according to the manual) and no 8K modes available (even though the manual says one should be), table page 904. (It would also be nice if a URL was given for "Refer to the Canon Website" as I searched in vain for that information last night so I could make an informed decision which CFexpress card to buy. I eventually found another copy of this very same table, telling me to refer to the Canon Website, which is where I already was.) 

I also discovered typos on page 899.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 1, 2020)

Pixel said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
> That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?


I am WTF on that one indeed. Was looking for a nice copy of 400/2.8 IS II


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## Deleted member 378664 (Aug 1, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I have been told that Canon is actively working on solutions to increase record times and reduce cooldown times. What those solutions are is unknown at this point. I imagine part of it is firmware, but are they also looking at a hardware fix?


maybe a paintjob for the EOS R5?


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## Pixel (Aug 1, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> I am WTF on that one indeed. Was looking for a nice copy of 400/2.8 IS II


I tested my 400 2.8 IS II and it works pretty good, probably not "quite" as fast as the vIII but its pretty snappy so I'm not as concerned as I was before.
The general rule of thumb I've been able to ascertain when it comes to EF lenses on the R5 and R6: the newer the better. 
My 600 f4 IS is pretty darn slow in mechanical shutter.


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## Whowe (Aug 2, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Thank you I was just trying to sort that out. As a R user I do like the touch and drag but it is nice to have the option!!!!


I don't understand why that is not the default setting for the joystick. Why would anyone want to have to push the button forst, then move the joystick? Its not like a button that gets accidently pushed or anything. I have used my 7dii like this since day 1 and never had a problem.


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I don't understand why that is not the default setting for the joystick. Why would anyone want to have to push the button forst, then move the joystick? Its not like a button that gets accidently pushed or anything. I have used my 7dii like this since day 1 and never had a problem.


I think Canon is promoting the touch and drag because R users got used to doing that. I still prefer using the screen now as I find it is quicker and more accurate for me. There is really should be a question during the setup asking if you are DSLR user or R/RP user and set the Camera accordingly.


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## SteveC (Aug 2, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I don't understand why that is not the default setting for the joystick. Why would anyone want to have to push the button forst, then move the joystick? Its not like a button that gets accidently pushed or anything. I have used my 7dii like this since day 1 and never had a problem.



Never owned a camera with a joystick before. I keep going to the dial to try to work the menu.  

The joystick, it seems, I'm going to have to learn, multiple times I've tried to press on it and had it shift on me in some direction instead, or vice versa. But I *did* disable the button that needs to be pressed before moving autofocus with the joystick. That was aggravating, instantly. (Oh and two dials will move the AF point up-down and left-right.)


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Never owned a camera with a joystick before. I keep going to the dial to try to work the menu.



100% same for me I keep trying for the d-pad. I need to reprogram myself. 

Oh and I got used to resetting the single focus point with the trash button on the R.


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## Marybell (Aug 2, 2020)

I received my r5 Thursday, but it never had the chance to overheat because it kept throwing an Error 70 every 10-30 seconds. Called B and H because Canon said it was a dead/defective camera, but B and H can’t get me a replacement.


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## MinoltaSRT101 (Aug 3, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I think Canon is promoting the touch and drag because R users got used to doing that. I still prefer using the screen now as I find it is quicker and more accurate for me. There is really should be a question during the setup asking if you are DSLR user or R/RP user and set the Camera accordingly.


I really tried to make the screen for moving focus points on the R, but being left eyed, I found my nose moved it more than my finger did. I tried limiting which area of the screen was active, but had no luck. I definitely prefer the joystick or the eye detect.


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## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

MinoltaSRT101 said:


> I really tried to make the screen for moving focus points on the R, but being left eyed, I found my nose moved it more than my finger did. I tried limiting which area of the screen was active, but had no luck. I definitely prefer the joystick or the eye detect.



The one time I got to play with an R (for an hour or so), I certainly didn't have time to customize/debug it for my quirks, and my nose was constantly moving the AF point. I too am left-eye dominant, but can't imagine this wouldn't also be an issue for right-eyed people...the screen center lies to the left of the viewfinder; thus there's actually more space for your nose to hit the screen if it's to the left of the eye using the viewfinder.


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## cornieleous (Aug 4, 2020)

Marybell said:


> I received my r5 Thursday, but it never had the chance to overheat because it kept throwing an Error 70 every 10-30 seconds. Called B and H because Canon said it was a dead/defective camera, but B and H can’t get me a replacement.



This is alarming. Hope they get you taken care of promptly. Seems they should have held some units for this type of swap out.

I've never bought this early in the cycle of a model, but I am not used to Canon putting items out with problems. This is the second problem I have heard about- another person cannot get the intervalometer working (could be a setting but he seems knowledgable). I hope Canon did not rush to market or rely on poor supply chain during these times just to beat competitors to a release. The overheating behavior is odd too, seeming to be time based and not cooling based which may mean a bad thermal design or bad firmware.

As much as I am liking my R5, I think the tiny MILC form factor the industry is so enamored with is stupid and prone to putting too much power in too small a space. It could take a while to shake out issues on this model, and a generation for any company to make a really solid hybrid that excels at both video and stills.


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## cornieleous (Aug 4, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> What has me worried is the following scenario:
> 
> I get up pre-dawn to shoot dragonflies covered with dew. The past week that meant temperatures between 15 and 21C (60-70F). Say I setup the camera on a tripod and start doing focus stacks. About an hour or so later the dragonflies will start moving, so no more focus stacks. I set it to 40k30HQ to film the dragonflies grooming, what will it say for the max record time?
> 
> ...



Yea hope they can improve it, but for the case you describe, the table and the language provided by Canon say that is not guaranteed. They should have marketed more carefully as stills cameras with some limited video. People heard the features and got excited and you can definitely blame Canon for sloppy marketing, even if I don't agree the camera is flawed, it is just mostly for stills with limited very HQ video.


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## Eric Mazzone (Aug 6, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> If you are a videographer and you won't lose any money returning gear, I'd say go for it. The A7SIII is a near perfect video camera as long as IBIS is not that important to you.
> 
> If photos are important to you, or you have some kind of balanced hybrid workflow, I'd stick with the R5. This is assuming you can work with the heating and recording time limitations.



I don't do video, so that's not a concern for me. I'm looking at the a7r IV if I do switch.


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## Eric Mazzone (Aug 6, 2020)

David_E said:


> Wow! Fickle _and_ impatient! Buying local is great _if_ you have a local store, which I don’t. But if you wanted one early, why didn’t you order from Adorama or B&H on 9 July? Received my R5 from B&H yesterday.


So that was unhelpful and rude.


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## Shazza77 (Sep 2, 2021)

Krispy said:


> You can feel a slight shake/ bump when moving it around in your hand without a lens. If you move it around fast enough, you can hear it move


I get a rattle and noise by just turning it over to put the battery in, is that normal?


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## Aregal (Sep 2, 2021)

Shazza77 said:


> I get a rattle and noise by just turning it over to put the battery in, is that normal?


That’s IBIS and/or OIS; completely normal.


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## Shazza77 (Sep 2, 2021)

Aregal said:


> That’s IBIS and/or OIS; completely normal.


I’m just concerned as mine seems to moves more and make a slightly louder noise than the one I tried in the shop?


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## Aregal (Sep 2, 2021)

Shazza77 said:


> I’m just concerned as mine seems to moves more and make a slightly louder noise than the one I tried in the shop?


Things wear over time. My RF24-105/4 makes more noise than the RF24-105/4 we have at work that sits on a shelf that everyone refuses to use.
Just keep an eye on it but if it really concerns you, take it to CPS.


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