# EdMika Adapters; the less fun side of selling



## ontarian (Mar 4, 2012)

On February 2, I sold an EdMika FL 55 1.2 adapter kit to a buyer in New York. Things have gotten lost in the mail before but everyone I have ever dealt with before has been really great to communicate with and I made sure they got their new items quickly or alternatively refunds if they would like (though none ever did). 

I was told by several people that if a negative rating/ comment would be left, it would not count towards my eBay overall rating if there was communication through the ebay message system. Well, that’s apparently incorrect. Buyers and experiences like this are why I question why I bother selling on eBay or to be honest the way I'm feeling right now even develop these adapters. It’s certainly not for the money because I’m still deep in the hole on my investment. I do this for fun and because of the - until now - universal support and helpful prodding from the photography enthusiast community.

Re-reading some of my responses I also see where I could have been more diplomatic in my responses but I think I was reacting to the perceived by me unfriendly tone of the buyers messages and the fact that here was a guy asking me to “fix things” two weeks into sending an international shipment. Many of my global customers and particularly Germany sometimes have to live with up to 5 week delivery times often because of Customs backlogs and are always friendly and understanding about it.

I have now actually blocked this particular buyer, I really have no desire of ever dealing with him again (though I know that would have been unlikely anyway). I know I really just need to grow a thicker skin (on a side note illustrating this need to grow a thick skin well, it really bothered me to get my first smite or whatever its called here on CR the other day) and really try to follow the rule the customer is always right and that’s what I’ll strive to do. 

I just needed to come here and vent a bit so thanks for that. cheers-Ed



FEBRUARY 2nd

Buyer XXX purchases an EdMika Canon FL 55mm 1.2 EOS brass conversion kit 


FEBRUARY 17th

Hello,
Two weeks past and I didn't received my item.
The tracking # is invalid. 
I was hoping to use your adapter for Valentine Day but it's failed. 
How we going to resolve the issue?

Regards,
TXXy

FEBRUARY 17th

Dear m****z,

RW626954482CA is a valid tracking number: the below info is from usps.com 
Processed Through Sort Facility
February 05, 2012, 5:29 am
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 
Registered Mail?
Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
Processed Through Sort Facility
February 04, 2012, 7:29 am
GUILDWOOD APT/TORONTO, CANADA
Acceptance
February 03, 2012, 2:11 pm
CANADA

Shipping from Canada to USA by registered mail takes 6-12 business days typically but occasionally it gets caught in customs for varying periods of time. I consider a package lost if it does not arrive within north america one month from the purchase date and 5 weeks for all other international destinations. If it gets to that point I send a replacement but this has only happened twice in over 200 sent. I have no control over customs delays and appreciate your understanding and patience. -Ed

-	ed_mika

FEBRUARY 24TH 

A paypal dispute is filed by the buyer

From Buyer – XXXXX XXXXXX
2/24/2012 06:46 PST
Dear Seller,
I purchased the item 180807598906 from seller and I Paid on Feb-02-12 via PayPal.
On 17 Feb 2012 I'd contacted with seller to verify where is the item.
He provided a tracking # RW626954482CA but I still didn't received my item yet. I can't believe that shipping from Canada to US is longer than from Japan or Asia.
I'm asking a full refund including shipping cost

From Seller - Ed Mika
2/25/2012 08:08 PST
I have opened a mail delivery trace with Canada post, reference number 102867331. The original tracking number shows the package arriving in NY just 2days after sending. I have already informed the buyer that my policy is to consider an item lost in mail when shipping to the US 30 days from purchase. At that point I offer either a refund or a new item can be resent. Details from plugging the tracking number into USPS.com are shown below. It is also my policy that if a buyer escalates a paypal dispute to a claim ahead of the 1month period I will block such a buyer from purchasing any future EdMika adapter products that are currently available or in development.

_[I know the last line in that comes off as rather harsh, I just knew that if a claim was filed I wouldn’t get the PayPal cut of the transaction back if they were forced to make a judgment]_

RW626954482CA
Processed Through Sort Facility
February 05, 2012, 5:29 am
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
Registered Mail™
Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
Processed Through Sort Facility
February 04, 2012, 7:29 am
GUILDWOOD APT/TORONTO, CANADA
Acceptance
February 03, 2012, 2:11 pm
CANADA

From Buyer – XXXXX XXXXX
2/25/2012 12:35 PST
There is no policy in seller's listing description describing above scenario "... item lost in mail when shipping to the US 30 days from purchase. At that point I offer either a refund or a new item can be resent." The seller sent me his afterwords fabricated "30 days policy" email where he could also say: "I will refund or resend an item after 60, 90, 180 days..." Again, there isn't any policy in seller's description at all.
And after all I just simply asked the seller to refund my money - he is threatening me by blocking me on eBay if I'll escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim.
Of course I will if I didn't receive a Full refund within 24 hours from this post and appropriate feed back for seller.
Thank you and happy weekend.
TXXy

_[actually I had that policy listed on all my items until I started sending registered mail and dropped it since I didn’t think it was needed anymore. I’m going to add that back in]_

From Seller - Ed Mika
2/25/2012 13:20 PST
I will update my listings to make this lost in shipping policy clear. I am refunding you the purchase price, enjoy your free EdMika. If the postal trace determines that in the unlikely event the item was successfully delivered to you and that you simply opened this dispute process when you saw the delivery was unmarked in online tracking I will make it a point to widely circulate the news of your behavior. I have worked with several other buyers who have had their items get lost in the mail and I can honestly tell you that your tone, message and demands have been by far the least pleasant for me to deal with.

_[The shipment tracking does show that package arrived in NY just days after sending and I’ve learned that many times the registered mail I send by does not indicate “item successfully delivered” which leaves me open to dishonest buyers who see this and use it as proof of non delivery even if the item arrives to them. I’m not saying that’s the case here but there is a possibility of it. The postal trace I started came back to me with the message that they can’t do anything until a month after shipment date. I will certainly initiate one again next week and if I find it was in fact delivered I will take some sort of action.]_

A Refund was issued.
2/25/2012 13:21 PST

MARCH 4TH 

_[The seller left me my first negative ever with the below comment and I lost my 100% feedback rating.]_
Lost item Had file PayPal to get refund Seller was threatened me.Very impolite

MARCH 4th 
_[I sent the buyer a final note.]_
Dear m****z,

Thanks for leaving me negative feedback after I fully refunded you only three weeks after internationally shipping you an item and after I had left you positive feedback. My first negative in 7 years btw.

-	ed_mika


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## gmikol (Mar 4, 2012)

The situation sucks...sorry to hear about it. BTW--Looks like you missed a couple of instances of the buyers' name in your post. I know you want to make everyone aware of this, but you might want to avoid cheesing off the buyer any further.

I also hope you choose to continue developing/making/selling these adapters. I think they're the best thing since sliced bread, giving new life to lots of old lenses.

FWIW, I had to open a case as a buyer last week because a seller sent me the wrong focusing screen for a T90. I bought what I thought was an "L" (cross-split) screen, according to the label on the box, in *NEW* condition. What I got was an "E" (split/microprism, stock) screen in an "L" screen box. The seller claimed I had swapped the screens. I let it go all the way to eBay Support to resolve the dispute, and they found in my favor. I'd like to believe that right and reasonable will always win...if this ever happens again, you might want to consider escalalting it all the way to eBay Support. Supposedly, an actual human will review the case...Just my $0.02.

Is there any means to challenge negative feedback?

--Greg


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## ontarian (Mar 4, 2012)

I redacted any mention of the persons actual name, I left the ebay account identified as a warning to others potentially dealing with this gentleman on eBay, pissed off or not there is not much more damage he can do.

As for challenging negative feedback, I'm going to investigate trying to do so over the next few days. From what I have seen posted on various forums, its pretty hard getting hold of a live eBay employee these days.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 6, 2012)

I wouldn't let it get you down, i gave you an extra applaud to offset you new smite 

but in the scheme of it 1 neg on ebay isn't a trainwreck when the majority are positive feedback

i think on the internet the are predatory buys as well as sellers

they are clever and you really cant argue with them, my parents run an online business and there is a small percentage of buyers that are clearly ripping them off but at the risk of getting a bad reputation they just send a new item or give a refund and its a cost of doing business on the internet.

Unfortunately the more these events happen the more the cost of the item has to be increased to cover these fraud claims and its the genuine buyers that suffer the increased costs to cover the dishonest people. 

Dishonest people will always be dishonest and unfortunately they will always find way to rip someone off be it online or in real life.

dont let it get you down, your products are great and 99.9% of us out there appreciate all your work


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## funkboy (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi Ed,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. For my part, I stopped worrying about people randomly hitting the smite button long ago.

There are a few online payment processing facilities that I'd recommend over PayPal (just search for PayPal wall of shame to see why). The most widely used one is probably Google Checkout.

American Express opened their Serve service last year, though I believe it's still only open to US residents.

Finally, there's a spiffy little credit card reader for tablets & phones called Square. I haven't read enough into the inner workings of their app to see if they can also process online transactions or not.

Anyway, don't let one negative experience get you down. The Internet certainly removes a layer of politeness from people vs. vocal communication.


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## dr croubie (Mar 18, 2012)

Yeah, unfortunately some people are just dicks, and always will be.
The amount of things i've seen items on ebay where there's been a line: "unfortunately due to past instances of buyers ripping me off I will only send international mail, signed for" are a lot, and ever-growing.

On the money side, at least you can go pack to your postage service, if he's right and the item never got delivered, then you can claim that back from the postie (I hope).

fwiw, I paid for my adapter on Feb 20, I took my first photo on March 2, it arrived at my mum's address maybe a few days sooner than that. And that's all the way to Australia, including our paranoid customs and quarantine (and i'm sure with all the junk i've bought off ebay in the past years, surely my name is one some sort of watchlist...)

But your ebay feedback says 100% to me, is there a happy end to this story after all?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 18, 2012)

I sell a lot on ebay, 10's of thousands of sales. Most buyers are polite, but some are like your buyer, and probably have problems with anyone they deal with.

You do the best you can, but they will only want more. Just don't let it get you down. I actually stopped shipping to Canada because it was taking 3-6 weeks to be delivered, and this made customers very unhappy. That was not their fault, but it did not make things better. Most slow shipments were apparently hung up in customs, because tracking showed them crossing the border in a day or two.

Fedex and UPS are fine as long as you use the expensive premium services. Fedex will give you a price break if you ship solely with them and have enough volume.

Lots of people in the US are down on the postal service, but their delivery times are usually very good, and when I use delivery confirmation, I only see one in 4 to 6 thousand packages get lost. 

You can escalate your case to ebay, if the buyer did not go thru their process they may remove your feedback. It will be removed in a year, in any event.


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## Harley (Mar 18, 2012)

Ed,

That's terrible and unfair. You've been an absolute pleasure to deal with, especially when CanadaPost was making things difficult for everyone. Glad you vented rather than let this stew. It has nothing to do with you and I don't even think your tone was out of line in anyway. This guy is trying to rip you off. Thanks for posting the eBay account ID. 

BTW, I am really enjoying the updated FL 55mm adapter! (Not to mention the old version of the FL 55mm, the 0.5mm bi-rotational adapter for superteles, and the TS 35mm adapter.) Your inventions are the best thing that has happened to my photography habit in a decade or more. Keep it up because you're creating a whole new life for some great forgotten glass!

Just got a couple photos with the new FL 55 adapter posted:
http://www.harleycowan.com/Street-Scenes/San-Francisco/21982217_cDZ8v3#!i=1753424578&k=t55FPCH

Take care!

H


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## Harley (Mar 18, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> But your ebay feedback says 100% to me, is there a happy end to this story after all?


I just check it, too, and it shows 100% positive feedback, as it should be.


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## ontarian (Mar 18, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I ended up submitting a request for negative feedback removal with a further apology and plea to the buyer who posted it. Surprisingly and thankfully he agreed to make the change.


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## underjammer (Mar 18, 2012)

That was nice (and appropriate) of the buyer to fix their rating of you! It could legitimately have been a delivery problem and a miscommunication. They sure didn't have great english in their emails, so it could have been someone of a different culture / expectations, etc.. On the other hand, the way people write these days, you never know... Anyway, You might want to reciprocate by removing their user name from the original post, so they don't come seeing it, randomly, and then re-getting-pissed, hehe. : D (Though I have no idea what they could do at this point.. can they revise the feedback again?) As a buyer, I've had my share of delivery issues, though fortunately none with ebay transactions. And it's also really frustrating from that end.

Regardless, that whole situation sucks. Hopefully you find out something through the delivery inquiry. Do you require signature for all your deliveries? I know both of the adapters I got from you needed a signature. So hopefully that should clear it up.

Also, you mentioned that you gave that person positive feedback and they gave you negative. I think as a seller, the idea is that you hold off on feedback until the buyer leaves you feedback, so that way you can resolve any issues if they have any. You're putting yourself on the line, pretty much, and have no way to know how satisfied your customer is until they've given you feedback (or contacted you with a problem..). (Now a days, I don't even think sellers can leave negative feedback, but you can not give feedback at all, if it is a poor transaction..)

Really don't let it discourage you. There will always be people out there looking to cause a problem. Sales in general is hard enough, and with the ability to hide behind the anonymity of the internet, these people are just wonderfully extra dickish, and it can really strike down the good spirited! Come here, vent, and don't let it get to you too much! It's about all you can do.. : D It'll happen, but remember it's just an anonymous person without a face, and they're taking advantage of that fact!


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## ontarian (Mar 18, 2012)

underjammer said:


> That was nice (and appropriate) of the buyer to fix their rating of you! It could legitimately have been a delivery problem and a miscommunication. They sure didn't have great english in their emails, so it could have been someone of a different culture / expectations, etc.. On the other hand, the way people write these days, you never know... Anyway, You might want to reciprocate by removing their user name from the original post, so they don't come seeing it, randomly, and then re-getting-pissed, hehe. : D (Though I have no idea what they could do at this point.. can they revise the feedback again?) As a buyer, I've had my share of delivery issues, though fortunately none with ebay transactions. And it's also really frustrating from that end.
> 
> Regardless, that whole situation sucks. Hopefully you find out something through the delivery inquiry. Do you require signature for all your deliveries? I know both of the adapters I got from you needed a signature. So hopefully that should clear it up.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the support and empathy under jammer and everyone else too. I've taken all buyer identifying references out of the original post.


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## 7enderbender (Mar 20, 2012)

Wow, what an, err, unpleasant fellow. I admire your restraint.

I'm sure the guy ultimately got the package. It's been my experience also that international shipments can take a very long time. I've had stuff from Europe take 2 months or even more on several occasions. And the same in the other direction. Sometimes stuff just sits in customs - especially custom made items that are not listed on the usual code lists that these guys are working off. I remember the nightmare with German customs several years back when I ordered a set of handmade guitar pickups (Lindy Fralin - another hero who started out with a great idea and great personalized service). I actually ended up calling the customs officer and he had them sitting on his desk and didn't know how to categorize them.

In any case - looking forward to my .5mm adapter for my FD 500 f/8 reflex. That should be a fun addition to play around with and maybe do some birding now that the weather is nice.

Question while I have you: does it come with the instructions on how to program the chip? Is that even possible (5DII)? Also does this combo work with an tele extender, either FD or EF? I was thinking about maybe adding the EF 1.4x which would also be a nice addition to my 200mm 2.8L and 135L. Just a thought.

Thanks


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## Maui5150 (Mar 20, 2012)

For one, you are probably better off selling on Amazon in many ways. I have dealt far too many times with eBay and PayPal than I care to recall, and as a Top Rated and Silver Power Seller, I have seen the site go to crap.

As well, there are a few annoying changes coming forward that can increase the final value fees on many sellers by as much as 450%

Yes... that is 450%.

The feedback process is incredibly skewed now, and sellers are in a real bad spot if you are not careful. In short EVERYTHING needs a tracking number, and if it is above $250 it needs a signature. You can have delivery confirmation... Does not matter if it is above $250, the buyer can receive it, as long as they do not sign for it, file a claim and you will get charged back.

Also be forewarned, Ebay and PayPal have been pushing hard on the BillMeLater. Do note, that the Buyer Protection under this is COMPLETELY different. I had an "Item not as described" which would have been fully covered under eBay/PayPal that was not under BillMeLater.


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## ontarian (Mar 20, 2012)

7enderbender said:


> Wow, what an, err, unpleasant fellow. I admire your restraint.
> 
> I'm sure the guy ultimately got the package. It's been my experience also that international shipments can take a very long time. I've had stuff from Europe take 2 months or even more on several occasions. And the same in the other direction. Sometimes stuff just sits in customs - especially custom made items that are not listed on the usual code lists that these guys are working off. I remember the nightmare with German customs several years back when I ordered a set of handmade guitar pickups (Lindy Fralin - another hero who started out with a great idea and great personalized service). I actually ended up calling the customs officer and he had them sitting on his desk and didn't know how to categorize them.
> 
> ...



Hi 7enderbender, thanks again for your order. I do include the chip programming instructions with the adapter. The 0.5mm adapter will not work with EF extenders because it brings the FD lens aperture lever into contact with the shallow plastic face of them (except in the case of your reflex lens that does not have an aperture lever so you would be ok with the EF version). In my testing experience, the only single extender on FD lenses that actually resolves more detail than upscaling/cropping is the FD 1.4x-a, just put that one on your FD lens and put the edmika adapter onto it.


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## ontarian (Mar 20, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> For one, you are probably better off selling on Amazon in many ways. I have dealt far too many times with eBay and PayPal than I care to recall, and as a Top Rated and Silver Power Seller, I have seen the site go to crap.
> 
> As well, there are a few annoying changes coming forward that can increase the final value fees on many sellers by as much as 450%
> 
> ...



Setting up edmika.com is high on my priority list with its own payment solution, probably still tied to paypal though. That way all information about my conversions with how-to-videos and explanations, instructions, pictures and everything can finally be in one single place. Right now people have to find out about my stuff by doing a bit of googling since I'm on youtube, flickr, twitter and various forums such as this one. 

Until now my priority has been get the designs working and a production solution developed. I'm about 3 new kits from switching my focus more to the marketing side. The new designs that I've got in the CAD at this exact moment are actually pretty exciting. Well, exciting for a gear geek like me.


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## Neeneko (Mar 20, 2012)

Given some of the horror stories that have come out of PayPal over the last year or two (form the merchant side) I am surprised you are sufficiently loyal to stay with them even if you decouple from eBay.

I think the whole mess can really bring out the worst in people. A few weeks ago I got treated (as a 3rd party) to an exchange between a seller and buyer where the seller sent the wrong lens (i.e. the one I had ordered) to a buyer, and the buyer was a complete dick about it including dramatic 'here is what I am going to do, this is your fault so I am going to keep the lens AND give you lots of negative feedback'.

I think a lot of people on the buying end are worried about being scammed or taken advantage of since there are a lot of shady sellers on eBay, so when they get a hint that they might have been a victim some just go apeshit.

And now back to trying to figure out what to do about my own little eBay problem... (seller sold me a lens with undisclosed maybe defect, blek)


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## CanineCandidsByL (Mar 22, 2012)

Years ago my wife used to buy books at estate sales and resell them on ebay for pretty good profit. She has various stories along similar lines. Most were international sales (maybe ugly americans aren't always americans). People would request something be shipped a particular way and then would complain about the shipping time or the cost. She got comlaints that they didn't understand the shipping method they requested would work the way it did, and that she should have explained it to them (as if she was an expert in international shipping). Finally she gave up and just stopped doing international sales (except Canada).

Sorry it happened to you. Hopefully knowing others have had the same will make you feel better.


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