# More about the upcoming high-megapixel EOS R system camera [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 10, 2019)

> Back in July, we reported that Canon was working on a high-megapixel EOS R camera body and that two different sensors were being tested, one around 70mp and another over 80mp.
> Yesterday we reported on a patent that shows an 83mp full-frame image sensor from Canon, which seems to give some credibility to the original report on the possible sensor resolution for the camera.
> 
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## PureClassA (Sep 10, 2019)

I’d have to imagine the video specs will be mundane considering the resolution as clearly this isnt built for video. That said I’d also imagine this is where we see the new IBIS system being rumored to work in tandem with lens IS for some crazy good combo IS with even more than 5 stops of performance. My only real complaint with my 5DSR is that it’s (understandably) nearly impossible to hand hold shoot and get maximum effectiveness of the high-res without some really high shutter speeds which arent always possible even at times with an IS lens. An 83MP sensor would even further exaggerate this issue without some amazing IBIS (short of having to tripod shoot all the time). Cant wait to see what they come up with!


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## ethanz (Sep 10, 2019)

No 24p, Canon is dumb


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## Canfan (Sep 10, 2019)

Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.


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## DrToast (Sep 10, 2019)

Sign me up.


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## wockawocka (Sep 10, 2019)

Not this side of Xmas then...meaning a 5D type mirrorless may well not appear until the end of next year.


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## gdanmitchell (Sep 10, 2019)

As a replacement for the 5Ds(R) line, which is optimized for high resolution still photography, this sounds like it would be a significant step forward, especially if the sensor performance is as good as speculation suggests.

This isn't intended to be a high speed action photography camera nor is it intended to be the world's best video recording system — Canon makes other systems optimized for those things.


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## PureClassA (Sep 10, 2019)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.



You will get something much bigger than the R with the 1DXR (or whatever they call the MILC version down the road). Having a bit larger body then current R for THIS camera would be welcome by pros because the larger telephoto glass this sort of camera will get used with needs to be better balanced. The easiest balance combo I own is the 1DX2 with either the 85 1.4 or the 70-200 2.8.


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## Architect1776 (Sep 10, 2019)

gdanmitchell said:


> As a replacement for the 5Ds(R) line, which is optimized for high resolution still photography, this sounds like it would be a significant step forward, especially if the sensor performance is as good as speculation suggests.
> 
> This isn't intended to be a high speed action photography camera nor is it intended to be the world's best video recording system — Canon makes other systems optimized for those things.



Absolutely.
This works for me with IBIS.
No IBIS not there yet.


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## wsmith96 (Sep 10, 2019)

Sounds pretty slick - the tilt LCD viewfinder can be very useful - thinking astro...


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## mpb001 (Sep 10, 2019)

I thought that the next advanced or pro body would have IBIS? I am hoping that it will have it. I really like Canon cameras because of their handling and image quality. That said, I also would like to head in the direction of a smaller mirrorless FF camera for travel and landscape photography. I have handled Sony and don't care for the lack of ergonomics, although they do have IBIS. A Nikon Z6 or a probably Z6II is a possibility, but I already own a few Canon L lenses, so would prefer to stick with Canon. Plus, I am not too sure about the fate of Nikon. They might be around in some fashion, but they have not fared well lately, at least financially and are much smaller than Canon. I would also prefer to stay with FF., so, hopefully Canon will start to include IBIS in their mirrorless line.


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## iamjhil (Sep 10, 2019)

pro body. and i'm sold. 4k60 & 1080 120fps


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## LensFungus (Sep 10, 2019)

> A “new style” of joystick


My neighbour's uncle knows the hairdresser of the Canon CEO's third cousin's dog and he told me that there will be a hole in the camera body of the high megapixel EOS R camera right where the joystick is supposed to be. The user has to put his tongue into the hole and by doing so he can select the AF points with the movement of his tongue. Sony is *******!


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## Juangrande (Sep 10, 2019)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.


I would actually prefer it to be slightly larger, personally I find smaller cameras are uncomfortable to hold and use.


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## mb66energy (Sep 10, 2019)

LensFungus said:


> My neighbour's uncle knows the hairdresser of the Canon CEO's third cousin's dog and he told me that there will be a hole in the camera body of the high megapixel EOS R camera right where the joystick is supposed to be. The user has to put his tongue into the hole and by doing so he can select the AF points with the movement of his tongue. Sony is *******!



Just thinking about users testing that camera at the next photokinas Canon both ...


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## Sharlin (Sep 10, 2019)

I believe the "new type of joystick" is going to be an eight-directional touchpad controller building on the tremendous success of the touch bar on the R. Remember, you heard it from me first!


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## TracerHD (Sep 10, 2019)

Mhh, it depends on the Specs if you should choose a 83MP R over a combination oft 30MP R and 32MP M6 II or 90D.

What do you mean?


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## Maximilian (Sep 10, 2019)

I like the "dual same type card slot" for other than 1D type cameras.
Sounds promissing for other pro/enthusiast EOS R bodies


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 10, 2019)

First half of 2020? Basically waiting for up to 9 months. Maybe up to a year. Any word on IBIS? 
And most important question (which I'm asking myself) - should I maybe buy A7RIV?


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## bhf3737 (Sep 10, 2019)

Joystick is very welcome addition.
Would be nice to have user selectable high speed (higher frame rate) crop mode.
Also one point AF area the smaller, the better.


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## criscokkat (Sep 10, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I believe the "new type of joystick" is going to be an eight-directional touchpad controller building on the tremendous success of the touch bar on the R. Remember, you heard it from me first!


You laugh, but using the touchscreen for this works well, except for those with smaller hands. A small touch box might work well, sort of like a mini touchpad ala a laptop's touchpad. If you moved your finger to the side it could scroll more quickly than a joystick and as you brought it in to the middle it could slide the focal points to a smaller area. You could also do some neat ui tricks on the display by drawing a box around a zone of points, and moving your fingers to the edge of the touchpad moves that outer box to quickly zoom to another area of the display then moving more towards the middle selects the points in that zone.

You could do this with an analog style joystick too - light touch moves just one or two points at a time, hard push to the side moves 10-15 points at a time. If you've ever used a PS4 or Xbox, this would be analogous to the stick controller.


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## padam (Sep 10, 2019)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.


Dual slots, IBIS, more controls maybe better weather sealing and dual processors to keep up with the speed will obviously add to the size.
It is still going to be smaller and lighter than the 5DsR (or a Panasonic S1)
The vast majority of RF lenses (which will be the most suited for the megapixel count) will feel right at home.


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## YuengLinger (Sep 10, 2019)

The Reality Chip inside my brain says this has nothing to do with me having ordered the EOS R two days ago...


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## HikeBike (Sep 10, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> First half of 2020? Basically waiting for up to 9 months. Maybe up to a year. Any word on IBIS?
> And most important question (which I'm asking myself) - should I maybe buy A7RIV?


I obviously don't know your specific situation, but I'd suggest you wait for this thing to be released before jumping to the A7R IV, so you can accurately compare them. Informed decisions are always good, even though waiting sucks.  As far as IBIS...pretty darn sure it will have it. It looks like the R was supposed to have it, based on the big gap between the two internal circuit boards, but Canon held off. Probably needed to work out the kinks. Should be good to go by now, I would think.


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## criscokkat (Sep 10, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> I obviously don't know your specific situation, but I'd suggest you wait for this thing to be released before jumping to the A7R IV, so you can accurately compare them. Informed decisions are always good, even though waiting sucks.  As far as IBIS...pretty darn sure it will have it. It looks like the R was supposed to have it, based on the big gap between the two internal circuit boards, but Canon held off. Probably needed to work out the kinks. Should be good to go by now, I would think.


They also could have designed it so it could have it in the future without requiring a new body or internal framework design. One less component that needs to be retooled and could be used again. (unsure if they will use the touchbar again, as it doesn't seem as loved as they would have hoped)


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## canonnews (Sep 10, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


MINE.


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## canonnews (Sep 10, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> They also could have designed it so it could have it in the future without requiring a new body or internal framework design. One less component that needs to be retooled and could be used again. (unsure if they will use the touchbar again, as it doesn't seem as loved as they would have hoped)



my guess is they designed the ergonomic body, and simply had room left to spare.

I know.. that's not nearly as much fun


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## sdz (Sep 10, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> Not this side of Xmas then...meaning a 5D type mirrorless may well not appear until the end of next year.



As far as I can tell, we have not seen a rumor about a 5D x replacement that is mirrorless. I haven't seen one. The fact that we haven't seen one suggests that, in the future, the R II might provide that replacement. With this strategy, if that's Canon's strategy, Canon could use the development time for the 1D x and R x cameras as well as the new M models to prepare for the mirrorless 5D x camera. Thus:

RP: 6D analogue
R: 5D analogue
RS: 5DS/5DS R analogue
RX: 1D x analogue

Of course, we know that Canon keeps a tight grip on the information that circulates about its gear. So, taking this conjecture with a grain of salt makes sense.


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## nchoh (Sep 10, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> They also could have designed it so it could have it in the future without requiring a new body or internal framework design. One less component that needs to be retooled and could be used again. (unsure if they will use the touchbar again, as it doesn't seem as loved as they would have hoped)


The number of different bodies Canon puts out suggests that they do not have or do not view different bodies as a constraint. Looking at Sony's background (electronics manufacturing) versus Canon's gives a clue as to the different design/manufacturing process that both companies follow. Whilst Sony seems to be constrained by body design, Canon does not.


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## rbielefeld (Sep 10, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> First half of 2020? Basically waiting for up to 9 months. Maybe up to a year. Any word on IBIS?
> And most important question (which I'm asking myself) - should I maybe buy A7RIV?


Sure, get the a7RIV to hold you over until the Canon hi-res R comes out, then sell the Sony and get the Canon. Have fun out there! That is what photography is for!


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## Sharlin (Sep 10, 2019)

nchoh said:


> The number of different bodies Canon puts out suggests that they do not have or do not view different bodies as a constraint. Looking at Sony's background (electronics manufacturing) versus Canon's gives a clue as to the different design/manufacturing process that both companies follow. Whilst Sony seems to be constrained by body design, Canon does not.



Uh, not so sure about that. They’re definitely experimenting a bit with the mirrorless bodies, but their basic DSLR form factor and design language has remained basically the same since the inception of the EOS system 30 years ago.


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## nchoh (Sep 10, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> Uh, not so sure about that. They’re definitely experimenting a bit with the mirrorless bodies, but their basic DSLR form factor and design language has remained basically the same since the inception of the EOS system 30 years ago.


"basic DSLR form factor and design language"... not what I am saying.


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## bellorusso (Sep 10, 2019)

*Canon Rumors, *your push notifications pop up banner is incredibly intrusive and annoying. I always click on "Don't Allow", but every next time I visit here, this pop up appears again.
Why do you keep torturing your readers like that?


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## fentiger (Sep 10, 2019)

1DX mirrorless, here's my prediction.
It will retain same battery as current, so it will be large
2 card slots, 1 cfast , 1cfexpress 
2 digic +8 and one digic 8 processors
26mp with 40fps 
no evf blackout 
gps
af sensors that work to f11 all cross type
£$6000+


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## mclaren777 (Sep 10, 2019)

I'm really disappointed about dual SD slots.

I'm going to be mad if Canon moves away from CF. Hopefully the 5D5 will continue to support both formats.


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## padam (Sep 10, 2019)

mclaren777 said:


> I'm really disappointed about dual SD slots.
> 
> I'm going to be mad if Canon moves away from CF. Hopefully the 5D5 will continue to support both formats.


All cameras are leaving CF behind, in favour of CFExpress 2.0 or UHS-II SD. Even the 1DX III might switch to that, although that could be the only one that keeps it going for now, as well as some Blackmagic and other video cameras.


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## Proscribo (Sep 10, 2019)

mclaren777 said:


> I'm going to be mad if Canon moves away from CF. Hopefully the 5D5 will continue to support both formats.


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## Sharlin (Sep 10, 2019)

mclaren777 said:


> I'm really disappointed about dual SD slots.
> 
> I'm going to be mad if Canon moves away from CF. Hopefully the 5D5 will continue to support both formats.



CF is a dead format.


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## ErlendS (Sep 10, 2019)

Dual card slots, IBIS, silent shooting, ok FPS (8-10), ok 4K video, high MP, good eye AF, that`s all I am asking for. And that will stop me from jumping to Sony. I am really excited about the RF glass, but still impatiently waiting for the proper pro body.


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## padam (Sep 10, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> I’d have to imagine the video specs will be mundane considering the resolution as clearly this isnt built for video.


The Fuji GFX100 has decent 4k video and the APS-C crop variant of this generation sensor in the 90D can do cropped or uncropped 4k as well, so at the bare minimum, it should be able to do the 1.6x 4k crop with line-skipping.

So I can't see why here they can't do decent 4k in some way, either cropped or uncropped, external or internal - if they want to do it, that is very much another matter of course. Without an AA filter, the moiré control won't be the best and with the IBIS it needs better cooling as well, and it will be marketed as a stills camera, so they might not bother (C-Log will be skipped for sure, probably 1080p 120fps as well, etc.).


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Sep 10, 2019)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.



Buy the EOS R then .. it exists.

For the rest of us, I'm fine with a "slightly" larger body in addition to my EOS R.


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## wockawocka (Sep 10, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> First half of 2020? Basically waiting for up to 9 months. Maybe up to a year. Any word on IBIS?
> And most important question (which I'm asking myself) - should I maybe buy A7RIV?



To be fair if you want a camera now that has a high mp count the A7Riv is a great option and you'll have a camera that isn't vapourware. Further to this, you can always sell it when the Canon body comes out. You'll lose some money but no more than you would through normal devaluation.

I'm also taking the same outlook on the pro mirrorless. I find it hard to see that with 2020 being an olympic year that we're looking at late 2020 for the pro bodies and 2021 for the X mirrorless. I love my Eos R's but they're a compromise. The A7iii has all the features I need, colours are pretty much on point now and the lenses available aren't stupidly heavy (and cheaper) than the RF versions.

There comes a point when yes, the glass is great but they are neglecting the needs of users. i.e. the 85mm 1.8 was launched 27 years ago and hasn't been updated since and I really worry that if they do an RF version it'll be a crappy STM one because I'll probably walk from Canon at that point because STM is not the way I want to go.

So while we have a lightweight rf35 its focus is via slow STM, the macro function makes it hard to focus on low contrast items at a distance and on the dancefloor the STM can't react quickly enough to follow subjects compared to USM. I now adapt the EF F2 35mm IS and that nails it.

Sony has modern 35, 55 and 85 1.8 lenses. Why the hell don't we have L versions of these focal lengths at these apertures yet. I really can't carry 10 kg of kit for 10 hours at a wedding. But thanks for the super heavy RF lenses all the same Canon. Studio users seem to be your target right now. Screw those of us shooting weddings.

Sorry, I started to rant...


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 10, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> I obviously don't know your specific situation, but I'd suggest you wait for this thing to be released before jumping to the A7R IV, so you can accurately compare them. Informed decisions are always good, even though waiting sucks.  As far as IBIS...pretty darn sure it will have it. It looks like the R was supposed to have it, based on the big gap between the two internal circuit boards, but Canon held off. Probably needed to work out the kinks. Should be good to go by now, I would think.



That was the plan, to wait and compare. But next year? Come on Canon. I've been waiting since last year. The issue is, I actually expected more from A7RIV, otherwise I wouldn't hesitate. But Sony disappointed a bit. Actually it disappointed by two bits, instead of 16-bit sensor the delivered 14-bit one... The rumours were it would be a 16-bit one.

As to IBIS, it's highly desirable but not crucial for me. IBIS or no IBIS, I think Canon will deliver a great camera, except I'm not sure about its dynamic range compared to A7RIV and to 5DIV.


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## ethanz (Sep 10, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> The Reality Chip inside my brain says this has nothing to do with me having ordered the EOS R two days ago...



You finally gave in, good job  When the RS comes out you can give me your old R.


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 10, 2019)

rbielefeld said:


> Sure, get the a7RIV to hold you over until the Canon hi-res R comes out, then sell the Sony and get the Canon. Have fun out there! That is what photography is for!



Hmm good thinking, although I don't have a budget for it. I.e. buying and selling an extra time means additional losses. But thanks I'll seriously think about such an option.


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## Ozarker (Sep 10, 2019)

Maximilian said:


> I like the "dual same type card slot" for other than 1D type cameras.
> Sounds promissing for other pro/enthusiast EOS R bodies


I always found it strange that the dual card cameras had mismatched cards.


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## peters (Sep 10, 2019)

"A “new style” of joystick "

PLEASE dont be a touch joystick like the ridiculous touch bar on the R :-D


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## Ozarker (Sep 10, 2019)

nchoh said:


> The number of different bodies Canon puts out suggests that they do not have or do not view different bodies as a constraint. Looking at Sony's background (electronics manufacturing) versus Canon's gives a clue as to the different design/manufacturing process that both companies follow. Whilst Sony seems to be constrained by body design, Canon does not.


Or Sony doesn't consider ergonomics a feature to be worried about.


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## unfocused (Sep 10, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> Not this side of Xmas then...meaning a 5D type mirrorless may well not appear until the end of next year.


It was released last year.


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## sdz (Sep 10, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> *Canon Rumors, *your push notifications pop up banner is incredibly intrusive and annoying. I always click on "Don't Allow", but every next time I visit here, this pop up appears again.
> Why do you keep torturing your readers like that?



Ummm, to monetize the website so that it pays the rent?


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## criscokkat (Sep 10, 2019)

canonnews said:


> my guess is they designed the ergonomic body, and simply had room left to spare.
> 
> I know.. that's not nearly as much fun


I always wondered if the chip and logic boards in the 80d/77d/rebel etc that have the same sensor had the same pcb boards too, with different bodies. I guess that's more of what I was thinking. Leave room for the IBIS if they reuse that internal design.


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## criscokkat (Sep 10, 2019)

sdz said:


> Ummm, to monetize the website so that it pays the rent?


I dont think it's asked me if I leave myself logged in. I think it does if I have to log in every time, or if I clear all cookies everytime I shut down my browser. (Most sites will do that actually)


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## Viggo (Sep 10, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> Just thinking about users testing that camera at the next photokinas Canon both ...


This made me think of Mr.Garrison’s bike


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## Sharlin (Sep 10, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> You laugh, but using the touchscreen for this works well, except for those with smaller hands. A small touch box might work well, sort of like a mini touchpad ala a laptop's touchpad. If you moved your finger to the side it could scroll more quickly than a joystick and as you brought it in to the middle it could slide the focal points to a smaller area. You could also do some neat ui tricks on the display by drawing a box around a zone of points, and moving your fingers to the edge of the touchpad moves that outer box to quickly zoom to another area of the display then moving more towards the middle selects the points in that zone.
> 
> You could do this with an analog style joystick too - light touch moves just one or two points at a time, hard push to the side moves 10-15 points at a time. If you've ever used a PS4 or Xbox, this would be analogous to the stick controller.



Yes, it definitely occurred to me as I was typing that it might not even be a half-bad idea. On the smaller bodies, changing the AF point using the main touchscreen apparently works very well, but on a larger camera the main screen is a bit too far away. Additionally, a digital joystick isn't really the right control anymore when you have thousands of AF point positions to select from. An analog stick or a touchpad should work much better—now that I think about it, I wouldn't even be surprised if the "new type" ends up being either of those. Or, hell, why not a trackball (one with enough friction to prevent unintended movements)?


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## TracerHD (Sep 10, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> First half of 2020? Basically waiting for up to 9 months. Maybe up to a year. Any word on IBIS?
> And most important question (which I'm asking myself) - should I maybe buy A7RIV?



It only makes sense to wait if you have to buy any compromises with the A7R IV for your needs.


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## Stuart (Sep 10, 2019)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.


Personally i found the EOS-R a little to small and angular. A 'little' larger sounds OK.


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## 12Broncos (Sep 10, 2019)

I liked everything I read except 'Be announced in first half of 2020.


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## canonnews (Sep 10, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> *Canon Rumors, *your push notifications pop up banner is incredibly intrusive and annoying. I always click on "Don't Allow", but every next time I visit here, this pop up appears again.
> Why do you keep torturing your readers like that?



CR uses PushCrew to control the notifications. All the CR website does is embed pushcrew's javascript. Pushcrew are the ones that are ultimately responsible for how many times you see that notification. I just verified my pushcrew panel (I have slowly migrated off of pushcrew), and even under advanced settings, there's not much in the way of configurable items that can be changed, and none that would influence how many times you see it.

Do you have cookies or anything disabled by any chance? they may pop a cookie on your browser to say that you have pressed don't allow.


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## melgross (Sep 10, 2019)

ethanz said:


> No 24p, Canon is dumb



no, people who think 24p is important are dumb.


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## 6degrees (Sep 10, 2019)

Equivalent to a7rIV but with higher resolution will be good, especially if with lower price.


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## Gözler (Sep 10, 2019)

*some time in the first half of 2020.*

Sounds better than sometime in 2021!


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## slclick (Sep 10, 2019)

I think in the 11 months since the R release, Canon has introduced a nice amount of glass plus a 2nd body. However, reading here, you would think it's been around 5 years and Canon is lagging. Some of you people are unrealistic and downright impatient. It will happen, it just isn't magic or knee jerk reaction R&D. Do yourself a favor and study up on product cycles in the imaging industry.


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## criscokkat (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> Yes, it definitely occurred to me as I was typing that it might not even be a half-bad idea. On the smaller bodies, changing the AF point using the main touchscreen apparently works very well, but on a larger camera the main screen is a bit too far away. Additionally, a digital joystick isn't really the right control anymore when you have thousands of AF point positions to select from. An analog stick or a touchpad should work much better—now that I think about it, I wouldn't even be surprised if the "new type" ends up being either of those. Or, hell, why not a trackball (one with enough friction to prevent unintended movements)?


A trackball would be awesome, except for that pesky getting dirt in a trackball thing.


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## HikeBike (Sep 11, 2019)

slclick said:


> I think in the 11 months since the R release, Canon has introduced a nice amount of glass plus a 2nd body. However, reading here, you would think it's been around 5 years and Canon is lagging. Some of you people are unrealistic and downright impatient. It will happen, it just isn't magic or knee jerk reaction R&D. Do yourself a favor and study up on product cycles in the imaging industry.


I agree. The anticipation of a pro mirrorless body has overshadowed all the impressive progress Canon is actually making. They're setting themselves up for long-term success in my opinion...even though they're currently behind on the mirrorless game.


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 11, 2019)

slclick said:


> I think in the 11 months since the R release, Canon has introduced a nice amount of glass plus a 2nd body. However, reading here, you would think it's been around 5 years and Canon is lagging. Some of you people are unrealistic and downright impatient. It will happen, it just isn't magic or knee jerk reaction R&D. Do yourself a favor and study up on product cycles in the imaging industry.



But I'm not buying the Canon Inc. I'm buying a camera for myself.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

HikeBike said:


> I agree. The anticipation of a pro mirrorless body has overshadowed all the impressive progress Canon is actually making. They're setting themselves up for long-term success in my opinion...even though they're currently behind on the mirrorless game.



This makes sense--when the Big One comes out (and precisely what that is depends on whether you want a mirrorless 1D, 5D, or 5DS or even 7D) the lenses are already there. Unlike with EOS-M where the lenses are somewhat lacking and (I suspect) likely to be limited forever unless Canon decides to make them physically wider.


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## wsmith96 (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I believe the "new type of joystick" is going to be an eight-directional touchpad controller building on the tremendous success of the touch bar on the R. Remember, you heard it from me first!



I heard it’s a retro Atari joystick that plugs into the USB port. Guaranteed to make you feel like a kid again. You can play asteroids on the back screen too when you are done shooting.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 11, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> *Canon Rumors, *your push notifications pop up banner is incredibly intrusive and annoying. I always click on "Don't Allow", but every next time I visit here, this pop up appears again.
> Why do you keep torturing your readers like that?



Do you have cookies turned off? It doesn't "torture" users.... There are more than 30,000 people subscribed to those notifications. It's something on your end that keeps them coming up for you.


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## Darrell Cadieux (Sep 11, 2019)

bhf3737 said:


> Joystick is very welcome addition.
> Would be nice to have user selectable high speed (higher frame rate) crop mode.
> Also one point AF area the smaller, the better.


Eye/face recognition would be very welcome as well.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Do you have cookies turned off? It doesn't "torture" users.... There are more than 30,000 people subscribed to those notifications. It's something on your end that keeps them coming up for you.



I believe he's referring to the thingamabob (highly technical term) that comes up when one first visits the site and asks if you want to allow it to push notifications...not the notifications themselves. (Correct me if I'm wrong, bellorusso)

In an ideal world, the site would look at who is logged in, and not pop the banner up--rather than using a cookie to figure out which _machine_ is visiting it. Thus new users on a shared machine would see it once, and the user who said No won't see it when he logs on from another machine. Of course, this would fail for people who don't log in (lurkers, etc.)...so maybe it's best the way it is.

That being said, that would be beyond the control/knowledge of the plug in that's doing it (sometimes a totally different party than the people who wrote the software that "powers" the site).


----------



## dtaylor (Sep 11, 2019)

wsmith96 said:


> I heard it’s a retro Atari joystick that plugs into the USB port. Guaranteed to make you feel like a kid again. You can play asteroids on the back screen too when you are done shooting.



That would actually be useful for astrophotographers sitting out on long, cold nights


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## slclick (Sep 11, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> But I'm not buying the Canon Inc. I'm buying a camera for myself.


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## Mr Majestyk (Sep 11, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> I’d have to imagine the video specs will be mundane considering the resolution as clearly this isnt built for video. That said I’d also imagine this is where we see the new IBIS system being rumored to work in tandem with lens IS for some crazy good combo IS with even more than 5 stops of performance. My only real complaint with my 5DSR is that it’s (understandably) nearly impossible to hand hold shoot and get maximum effectiveness of the high-res without some really high shutter speeds which arent always possible even at times with an IS lens. An 83MP sensor would even further exaggerate this issue without some amazing IBIS (short of having to tripod shoot all the time). Cant wait to see what they come up with!



Assuming they had the read speed, they could do FF read out and get 4K with 3x oversampling, otherwise even 8K would require large crop ~ 1.5x. They'll have to offer 4K and Sony does FF 4K from the 61MP A7RIV so curious if they go for better solution or gimped solution.


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.


They do think about that. Personally, I wouldn't mind them being bigger. That the camera is mirrorless has nothing to do with it, rather, what Canon senses their market wants. The wildlife and sports people with big lenses, I assume, will want a larger frame without having to add a grip.


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

slclick said:


> I think in the 11 months since the R release, Canon has introduced a nice amount of glass plus a 2nd body. However, reading here, you would think it's been around 5 years and Canon is lagging. Some of you people are unrealistic and downright impatient. It will happen, it just isn't magic or knee jerk reaction R&D. Do yourself a favor and study up on product cycles in the imaging industry.


I blame microwave ovens and TV dinners for the lack of patience. People have got used to getting things right now.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The wildlife and sports people with big lenses, I assume, will want a larger frame without having to add a grip.



I did a double take because I misread that as "get a grip." Which some people do need to do, but not necessary "wildlife and sport people" so I had to reread it.

The one thing mirrorless buys you is less depth, dimensionally (back to front of camera); I don't see why the camera would necessarily shrink in the other dimensions. (If I am just ignorant, please educate me.)


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## Antono Refa (Sep 11, 2019)

An LCD that can be tilted up into waist level viewfinder position sounds natural to me, but why would an EVF be tiltable?


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I did a double take because I misread that as "get a grip." Which some people do need to do, but not necessary "wildlife and sport people" so I had to reread it.
> 
> The one thing mirrorless buys you is less depth, dimensionally (back to front of camera); I don't see why the camera would necessarily shrink in the other dimensions. (If I am just ignorant, please educate me.)


I don't think I need to educate you. You seem smart enough, and I am not.

The R is far smaller in weight, length, and height than the 5D Mark IV and 1DX Mark II and even the 7D Mark II.

What I meant was that people with big whites might want a larger body (Taller) for more balance and purchase for their right hand. Of course, if they use a gimble, I guess it doesn't matter. I have the R and it is great for the size lenses I use.
R = 660g. 136 x 98 x 84 mm
5D Mark IV = 890g. 151 x 116 x 76 mm
1DX Mark II = 1340g. 158 x 164 x 83.
Then again, there are people who use the 7D Mark II = 910g. 149 x 112 x 78 mm which is still a lot bigger than the R.

If I were shooting handheld with the R and an EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II I'd probably prefer a larger body or want a battery grip for the R.



Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.



So what I was responding to was somebody who said that Canon's FF mirrorless should be limited to the size of the R, just because they are mirrorless, and that Canon should think about that.

I think the higher end will be larger. The R is pretty small. The RP is very small.


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## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2019)

Antono Refa said:


> An LCD that can be tilted up into waist level viewfinder position sounds natural to me, but why would an EVF be tiltable?



I guess for the same reason the Angle Finder C exists. And the EVF-DC1 is tiltable as well. Though a tiltable rear screen largely makes those obsolete, I guess.


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

slclick said:


> View attachment 186541


Exactly who I think about when they scream, "I want it now! I can't wait another 9 months or my world will come crashing in!"


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## Bennymiata (Sep 11, 2019)

Antono Refa said:


> An LCD that can be tilted up into waist level viewfinder position sounds natural to me, but why would an EVF be tiltable?


Because old farts like me prefer to look through a viewfinder!

I'm waiting to replace my 5d3. I would prefer a dslr but I'm willing to look at this new mirrorless if the evf is better than the R has.


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## Antono Refa (Sep 11, 2019)

Bennymiata said:


> Because old farts like me prefer to look through a viewfinder!
> 
> I'm waiting to replace my 5d3. I would prefer a dslr but I'm willing to look at this new mirrorless if the evf is better than the R has.



Well, I prefer looking through the 5Dmk3's viewfinder as well, question is why would you like to change the viewfinder's angle?

I understand looking forward through an E/OVF, I understand waist level viewfinder (= screen facing up), I don't understand having to face down and have the camera against one's face.


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## scottkinfw (Sep 11, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> The Reality Chip inside my brain says this has nothing to do with me having ordered the EOS R two days ago...


It Does!
Order another camera and let's see what they announce!


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## Pape (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I guess for the same reason the Angle Finder C exists. And the EVF-DC1 is tiltable as well. Though a tiltable rear screen largely makes those obsolete, I guess.


i think its other way titlable viewfinder makes tiltable rear screen obsolete 

easier make strong tilt viefinder with good locking position mechanism than strong tiltable rear screen.
Hard believe peoples who need high resolution camera ,wants selfie screen too .
Maybe you can turn viewfinder over camera too so you can fit camera to smaller bag.
For those who really need tiltable rear screen, external screen could work anyway better.
future should bring wireless viewfinder you can remove from camera and put over eye like monocle ,when camera on difficult position


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Exactly who I think about when they scream, "I want it now! I can't wait another 9 months or my world will come crashing in!"


I'm not sure what that picture was meant to say. 
Again as a consumer I'm not buying the Canon Inc., I'm buying just a camera. So it's all about what market offers now and the cost of an upgrade, e.g. switching to Sony vs staying with Canon. Nobody cares if I can wait or not, and I don't care about the Canon's production cycle and what they've delivered so far, as long as I'm not buying what they've delivered.


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## mb66energy (Sep 11, 2019)

Just thinking about 83 MPix and IBIS after trying to take a photo of a plant in (very moderate) wind:
As far as I know IBIS (and IS in lenses) use a gyro / acceleration sensor and "react" with sensor / lens element to compensate for movements of the camera.

What if Canon is trying to use pattern recognition on the sensor (linked to the AF point) to stabilize the sensor? This would not only compensate for camera movement but for (erratic) object movement! This needs speed, maybe a reason for the additional pins on lenses / lensmount for communication. And a reason for Canon being late in the IBIS department ???


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I'm not sure what that picture was meant to say.
> Again as a consumer I'm not buying the Canon Inc., I'm buying just a camera. So it's all about what market offers now and the cost of an upgrade, e.g. switching to Sony vs staying with Canon. Nobody cares if I can wait or not, and I don't care about the Canon's production cycle and what they've delivered so far, as long as I'm not buying what they've delivered.


I was responding to the photo my buddy posted, not anything you said. I never even read your comment, and don't care to. The character in the photo he posted is Varuca Salt from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. She wants everything and she wants it now. She's a spoiled brat with the attitude of many on this website, especially those who create new accounts to tell us all how far behind they think Canon is. Viggo's posted photo was a cultural reference I recognized and found funny in light of what we read in threads all the time. So if you want to understand why it was funny, just watch the video. Otherwise, lay off. What I said to Viggo had absolutely nothing to do with you.


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## SecureGSM (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I guess for the same reason the Angle Finder C exists. And the EVF-DC1 is tiltable as well. Though a tiltable rear screen largely makes those obsolete, I guess.


Unless you are shooting outdoors in a bright lit environment (full sun) and cannot see what is displayed on the rear screen anyway and have to use viewfinder piece instead.


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## mb66energy (Sep 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Exactly who I think about when they scream, "I want it now! I can't wait another 9 months or my world will come crashing in!"


The problem is that I am waiting 5 years for "the fullframe camera", add this to the 9 months! I wanted to buy 5D IV but it was very expensive compared to its predecessors so I bought the 5D mark i. Then EOS 200D because it had the new sensor tech and seemed to be fine feature wise. Than the EOS M50 because I wanted to try a newer mirrorless camera for better AF (free choice of AF position).

I learned that the EOS 200D has similar IQ compared to the 5D but AF isn't always spot on (never was with DSLRs of the lower...medium category).
Then I learned that the M50 has similar IQ BUT it has a much much better AF hit rate compared to all other Canon cameras I ever had. The reason is, that I like to use wider apertures and compositions where the object is never at the place where the DSLRs provided AF points.

A problem with Canon is that they leave out simple features in their basic cameras which could have been provided by software, e.g. some setting of IS stops for the auto ISO algorithm: With a 200mm lens the shutter speed is nailed to 1/320 maxium with IS enabled while 1/45 sec would be possible assuming a 3-stop advantage. It is one parameter in firmware, one menu item and two or three if statements.
What I have learned: Canons cameras are very well thought out, they are a joy of use, but some very important things are missing in their basic models. I am not confident that these are implemented in their higher end models - so I have skipped them up to now.

While I am just an "amateur" I do not depend on these cameras but I would like to have a camera which can be used over 5 or more years without unnecessary limitations. And last but not least: I would like to pay for essential firmware updates which introduce useful software features!

A lot of Canons cameras seem to me like test objects to look how they work in the wild. But I am waiting for a refined milestone model like 5D mark ii. And I want it NOW NOW NOW


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> Unless you are shooting outdoors in a bright lit environment (full sun) and cannot see what is displayed on the rear screen anyway and have to use viewfinder piece instead.



Both have their advantages.

One time I had to raise the camera two feet above my head to take a picture of something through glass that otherwise would have had glare on it. The flippy screen on my M50 made that possible--or would have, if I had known how to keep the viewfinder from activating (it was a dark room) as soon as I lifted the camera. I found out later how to do it. Granted, that would have been an absolutely sucky, unsteady picture with a super-hi-res camera, but nevertheless, I am sure there are times you *can't* use a viewfinder without being made of elastic.


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> The problem is that I am waiting 5 years for "the fullframe camera", add this to the 9 months! I wanted to buy 5D IV but it was very expensive compared to its predecessors so I bought the 5D mark i.


Well, if you've been waiting 5 years for "the fullframe camera", I don't know what to tell you. If that means it ticks all the boxes for everything you'd like to have... you'll be waiting a lot longer. That isn't Canon's fault, it's yours. You want it all. You want it now. And you want it cheap.

Thanks for reinforcing the cultural reference.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Well, if you've been waiting 5 years for "the fullframe camera", I don't know what to tell you. If that means it ticks all the boxes for everything you'd like to have... you'll be waiting a lot longer. That isn't Canon's fault, it's yours. You want it all. You want it now. And you want it cheap.



I might as well repeat my (facetious) demand for a 10-600 mm, f/1.0 lens that can fit in my pocket and is cheap. It's such a pain in the ass to have to change lenses; why can't I have one that does everything? "Ah," but you say, "If you only need one lens, why does it need to fit in your pocket? Just leave it on the camera!" "You're right," I say..."My bad. I really want _the camera and lens_ to fit in my pocket!"


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I might as well repeat my (facetious) demand for a 10-600 mm, f/1.0 lens that can fit in my pocket and is cheap.


Heck, the RP is inexpensive and so is the R compared to the 5D Mark IV. Why someone who said he was thinking on buying the 5D Mark IV, but instead bought the original 5D (Had to have been used) can't have been serious about the Mark IV to begin with.


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## Pape (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I might as well repeat my (facetious) demand for a 10-600 mm, f/1.0 lens that can fit in my pocket and is cheap.


If they can do 10'' telescope fishing rod what fits to pocket i am sure that lenses should be doable . Some innovations pleace mr canon!


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

Pape said:


> If they can do 10'' telescope fishing rod what fits to pocket i am sure that lenses should be doable . Some innovations pleace mr canon!



It would become the canonical lens!


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

Pape said:


> If they can do 10'' telescope fishing rod what fits to pocket i am sure that lenses should be doable . Some innovations pleace mr canon!


My grandfather actually gave me a combo called "The Pocket Fisherman"


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Heck, the RP is inexpensive and so is the R compared to the 5D Mark IV. Why someone who said he was thinking on buying the 5D Mark IV, but instead bought the original 5D (Had to have been used) can't have been serious about the Mark IV to begin with.



I don't know the 5s well at all. But the general sense I get is that the R doesn't compare to the Mark IV. It might, however, compare to the original (the not-a-Mark-I-because-the-first-one-is-never-called-Mark-I).


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 11, 2019)

I know the movie, and I like the other one with Johnny Depp more btw, but as I said I didn't think it was relevant to what I said before. The picture was sent in a response to my post, and my post was quoted above the picture, maybe you noticed that.



CanonFanBoy said:


> I was responding to the photo my buddy posted, not anything you said. I never even read your comment, and don't care to. The character in the photo he posted is Varuca Salt from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. She wants everything and she wants it now. She's a spoiled brat with the attitude of many on this website, especially those who create new accounts to tell us all how far behind they think Canon is. Viggo's posted photo was a cultural reference I recognized and found funny in light of what we read in threads all the time. So if you want to understand why it was funny, just watch the video. Otherwise, lay off. What I said to Viggo had absolutely nothing to do with you.


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I don't know the 5s well at all. But the general sense I get is that the R doesn't compare to the Mark IV. It might, however, compare to the original (the not-a-Mark-I-because-the-first-one-is-never-called-Mark-I).


Actually, the R compares very well to the 5D Mark IV spec sheet wise, better in many ways. Has the same sensor. It is a really good camera. I came to the R from the 5D mark III and it stomps the crap out of the Mark III in every way. The R is so good I sold all my EF glass to switch to native RF glass. To top it off, the RF "L" glass is really incredible.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Sep 11, 2019)

wsmith96 said:


> I heard it’s a retro Atari joystick that plugs into the USB port. Guaranteed to make you feel like a kid again. You can play asteroids on the back screen too when you are done shooting.


Maybe you’re on to something there... there’s only so many setting I can go over when I’m on a 14 hour flight. Would be nice to play snake or tetras or something.


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I know the movie, and I like the other one with Johnny Depp more btw, but as I said I didn't think it was relevant to what I said before. The picture was sent in a response to my post, and my post was quoted above the picture, maybe you noticed that.


Nope, I didn't. Sorry if your misconceptions hurt your feelings. I told you why I thought the photo was funny. Had nothing to do with you, so don't make it about you.


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## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Maybe you’re on to something there... there’s only so many setting I can go over when I’m on a 14 hour flight. Would be nice to play snake or tetras or something.


Pong. It has to have Pong.


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## Quackator (Sep 11, 2019)

"Slightly bigger"..... sigh..... make it the ergonomics and size of a 5D MkIV. 

Pretty please.

Tool size, not toy size.

No, don't exaggerate. Gripped body would be too much on the other hand.


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## Timedog (Sep 11, 2019)

A touchpad in place of a joystick would be great. But JESUS tap-dancing Christ can you add a sensitivity slider, unlike the touch AF right now where I have to do 3 separate movements to get the AF point across the screen in relative move. Please put this basic, basic functionality that should be very easy to program in, or hire me for a week and I'll program it in for you. Bah!


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## M_S (Sep 11, 2019)

I would prefer the classic joystick which is on the 5dsr. For me its the perfect layout anyway, why change it. Perhaps a bigger LCD-screen would be nice (tilty flippy like in the G12).


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## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2019)

M_S said:


> I would prefer the classic joystick which is on the 5dsr. For me its the perfect layout anyway, why change it. Perhaps a bigger LCD-screen would be nice (tilty flippy like in the G12).



Have you tried to use the classic joystick to quickly move between literally five thousand (about 90*60) AF point positions?


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## M_S (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> Have you tried to use the classic joystick to quickly move between literally five thousand (about 90*60) AF point positions?


No, but I doubt that you pin-point the exact focus point, its always a rough guess and there is some clustering happenig anyhow. If speed is of concern, then I can imagine some speed options to adjust the behaviour. The touch bar implementation was a deal breaker for me and if a similar approach is brought to the high megapixel camera, its a deal breaker again for me and I will stick to my camera for a bit longer. I really like the button layout and the behaviour of the 5dsr and that is refined up to that state. The current offerings hamper the Canon ergonomics quite a bit, at least for me, which was always a strong point for Canon. So far, not so much...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> The problem is that I am waiting 5 years for "the fullframe camera", add this to the 9 months! I wanted to buy 5D IV but it was very expensive compared to its predecessors so I bought the 5D mark i. Then EOS 200D because it had the new sensor tech and seemed to be fine feature wise. Than the EOS M50 because I wanted to try a newer mirrorless camera for better AF (free choice of AF position).
> 
> I learned that the EOS 200D has similar IQ compared to the 5D but AF isn't always spot on (never was with DSLRs of the lower...medium category).
> Then I learned that the M50 has similar IQ BUT it has a much much better AF hit rate compared to all other Canon cameras I ever had. The reason is, that I like to use wider apertures and compositions where the object is never at the place where the DSLRs provided AF points.
> ...


I recall that a few years ago, a poster stated that the 7DII was a great camera, but he wanted a FF camera and why couldn’t Canon just put a FF sensor in the 7DII...and sell it for the price of the 7DII. 

Sorry, the world doesn’t work that way.


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## Tremotino (Sep 11, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> The problem is that I am waiting 5 years for "the fullframe camera", add this to the 9 months! I wanted to buy 5D IV but it was very expensive compared to its predecessors so I bought the 5D mark i. Then EOS 200D because it had the new sensor tech and seemed to be fine feature wise. Than the EOS M50 because I wanted to try a newer mirrorless camera for better AF (free choice of AF position).
> 
> I learned that the EOS 200D has similar IQ compared to the 5D but AF isn't always spot on (never was with DSLRs of the lower...medium category).
> Then I learned that the M50 has similar IQ BUT it has a much much better AF hit rate compared to all other Canon cameras I ever had. The reason is, that I like to use wider apertures and compositions where the object is never at the place where the DSLRs provided AF points.
> ...


what you want is a eos 5d mark iv for the price of a 200d.  and you want it now


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## Rbus (Sep 11, 2019)

Megapixels to high for me. I am waiting for a 40 to 50 megapixel, 2 card slots and 7 plus frames per sec. Not interested in any video at all.


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## rjbray01 (Sep 11, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> First half of 2020? Basically waiting for up to 9 months. Maybe up to a year. Any word on IBIS?
> And most important question (which I'm asking myself) - should I maybe buy A7RIV?


Personally I am waiting 

If the new Canon is bigger than the Sony then it's a no brainier for existing adapted EF lenses such as 70-200 F2.8 

Assuming IBIS !!


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## hollybush (Sep 11, 2019)

"RS" is a hilariously unsuitable name for a camera in Australia, because it's a common variation of this crude expression to describe something that doesn't work properly. But then again, Mitsubishi kept selling the Pajero...


----------



## BillB (Sep 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I blame microwave ovens and TV dinners for the lack of patience. People have got used to getting things right now.



Amazon might have something to do with the need for instant gratification too. That and credit cards.


----------



## suburbia (Sep 11, 2019)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.



You think a 83MP sensor will be nearly 3 times larger in dimensions than a 32MP one?


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## RayValdez360 (Sep 11, 2019)

gdanmitchell said:


> As a replacement for the 5Ds(R) line, which is optimized for high resolution still photography, this sounds like it would be a significant step forward, especially if the sensor performance is as good as speculation suggests.
> 
> This isn't intended to be a high speed action photography camera nor is it intended to be the world's best video recording system — Canon makes other systems optimized for those things.


the camera still has to be good enough to be used without a tripod. who wants a bunch of motion blurred details that defeats the purpose of having extra resolution.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 11, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> Have you tried to use the classic joystick to quickly move between literally five thousand (about 90*60) AF point positions?


what?


----------



## privatebydesign (Sep 11, 2019)

hollybush said:


> "RS" is a hilariously unsuitable name for a camera in Australia, because it's a common variation of this crude expression to describe something that doesn't work properly. But then again, Mitsubishi kept selling the Pajero...


The Pajero was badged Shogun in large parts of the world.


----------



## neurorx (Sep 11, 2019)

So if people are thinking the R is the 5DIV equivalent are we thinking of a whole new Canon product cycle before we see a mirror less technology jump aka the R II to see some real advancement in a 5Dish line? 

Is the thought that there won’t be a 5D5 DSLR next year? 

I love the idea of more MP but 70–80 but not my preference as I would prefer a lower light and hand hold capable camera. IBIS I can’t imagine would be good enough for that.


----------



## wsmith96 (Sep 11, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Maybe you’re on to something there... there’s only so many setting I can go over when I’m on a 14 hour flight. Would be nice to play snake or tetras or something.



Someone, somewhere is now trying to figure out how to make that actually happen....


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## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> what?



What what? My point was that choosing where to focus with modern DPAF sensors is more like tapping a smartphone screen than selecting one of a set of discrete points. Using a joystick (especially a non-analog one) to move what is essentially a mouse cursor is not the best user experience ever.


----------



## amorse (Sep 11, 2019)

Antono Refa said:


> Well, I prefer looking through the 5Dmk3's viewfinder as well, question is why would you like to change the viewfinder's angle?
> 
> I understand looking forward through an E/OVF, I understand waist level viewfinder (= screen facing up), I don't understand having to face down and have the camera against one's face.


I think there is a some value in a tiltable viewfinder. Basically any time the back lcd won't do it and you don't want to get down to the camera's level. Using a camera at waist hight on a tripod in bright light is a good example. The evf can be really useful for reviewing images when you can't see the screen (too bright out or too much glare), or maybe don't want to mess with your composition, and the tiltable lcd screen would be distracting to others (i.e. shooting nightscapes with others). I think two of Fuji's medium format mirrorless cameras can use it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1311711-REG/fujifilm_16536922_evf_tl1_evf_tilt_adapter.html

I would definitely use that feature often, but I can see how some wouldn't bother with it.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> the camera still has to be good enough to be used without a tripod. who wants a bunch of motion blurred details that defeats the purpose of having extra resolution.


I would think that's down to your technique, not the camera.


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## Steve Balcombe (Sep 11, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> The Pajero was badged Shogun in large parts of the world.


Including the UK where nobody knows what Pajero means.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> The Pajero was badged Shogun in large parts of the world.



So does one get to ride shotgun in the shogun?

Another example: The Chevy Nova, in Latin America ("doesn't go").


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## unfocused (Sep 11, 2019)

neurorx said:


> So if people are thinking the R is the 5DIV equivalent are we thinking of a whole new Canon product cycle before we see a mirror less technology jump aka the R II to see some real advancement in a 5Dish line?
> 
> Is the thought that there won’t be a 5D5 DSLR next year?
> 
> I love the idea of more MP but 70–80 but not my preference as I would prefer a lower light and hand hold capable camera. IBIS I can’t imagine would be good enough for that.


No one except Canon has any idea. My speculation is that if Canon releases a high mp camera and a flagship mirrorless sports/wildlife camera, they will have four full frame mirrorless bodies, making a fifth body unlikely in a shrinking market. I could certainly be wrong. And, since we don't know what those two rumored new bodies are like, we can't really know what gaps if any might be left in the lineup.

A 5DV remains very likely in my view. I doubt they will abandon that segment and many people prefer the DSLR form factor. But who knows about the timing? If they release the 1D X III in early 2020, they may wait until 2021 to release a new 5D V. They could also shorten the refresh cycle on the R and release an RII sometime in 2020-21. No one knows and it's best to just take the speculation as entertainment and base buying decisions on actual products that are available.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 11, 2019)

RayValdez360 said:


> the camera still has to be good enough to be used without a tripod. who wants a bunch of motion blurred details that defeats the purpose of having extra resolution.


The 80D already is equivalent to 61 mp and the 90D will be like 83 mp on full frame, and no one believes you have to have those cameras on a tripod to shoot sharp pictures.


----------



## neurorx (Sep 11, 2019)

unfocused said:


> No one except Canon has any idea. My speculation is that if Canon releases a high mp camera and a flagship mirrorless sports/wildlife camera, they will have four full frame mirrorless bodies, making a fifth body unlikely in a shrinking market. I could certainly be wrong. And, since we don't know what those two rumored new bodies are like, we can't really know what gaps if any might be left in the lineup.
> 
> A 5DV remains very likely in my view. I doubt they will abandon that segment and many people prefer the DSLR form factor. But who knows about the timing? If they release the 1D X III in early 2020, they may wait until 2021 to release a new 5D V. They could also shorten the refresh cycle on the R and release an RII sometime in 2020-21. No one knows and it's best to just take the speculation as entertainment and base buying decisions on actual products that are available.


Unfocused, may I ask what type of shooting you use your 5DSR? In your experience, is the keeper rate reasonable handheld?


----------



## padam (Sep 11, 2019)

unfocused said:


> A 5DV remains very likely in my view. I doubt they will abandon that segment and many people prefer the DSLR form factor. But who knows about the timing? If they release the 1D X III in early 2020, they may wait until 2021 to release a new 5D V. They could also shorten the refresh cycle on the R and release an RII sometime in 2020-21. No one knows and it's best to just take the speculation as entertainment and base buying decisions on actual products that are available.


The R II will likely follow the 5DV by a year or so in 2022, just as the R-X will follow the 1DX III in 2021.
They are not likely to shorten the life-cycle, as they also need to focus on lenses beside the bodies.
If one really wants to upgrade from the R, he can shell out the extra cash on the R-X with newer technology when it gets released. It will be also interesting to see when these firmware updates will come to a halt.

Whatever it might be, the main point is: Canon is probably not going to rush things and there is no point in complaining about it.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> Another example: The Chevy Nova, in Latin America ("doesn't go").


Bad example.

"Nova" means the same thing in English and Spanish, an astronomical event resulting from the light of a 'new' star reaching earth. Now, if Chevy had called the model "No yendo" that would have been a problem, but they didn't. The Nova sold just fine in Latin American countries.

Also, "Nova" ≠ "No va." Think about it, if I tell you that an 80 MP sensor would be a _notable_ feature of Canon's upcoming mirrorless camera, do you think I told you that having 80 MP means there's _no table_ in the camera (nor any chairs, either)? I hope not...

Myth. Busted.


----------



## AlanF (Sep 11, 2019)

unfocused said:


> The 80D already is equivalent to 61 mp and the 90D will be like 83 mp on full frame, and no one believes you have to have those cameras on a tripod to shoot sharp pictures.


There is bound to be someone who believes you have to use a tripod...


----------



## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Bad example.
> 
> "Nova" means the same thing in English and Spanish, an astronomical event resulting from the light of a 'new' star reaching earth. Now, if Chevy had called the model "No yendo" that would have been a problem, but they didn't. The Nova sold just fine in Latin American countries.
> 
> ...











Did Chevrolet Blunder in Marketing the Nova in Latin America?


Is it true that Chevrolet couldn't market its Nova in Latin America because the brand name means "it doesn't go"? Turns out, it's just an urban legend.




www.thoughtco.com





Thanks for the education, and _mea culpa_. 

It looks like you're right on the key point, with one nit that makes no difference: It appears you _could_ say "no va" but it would be very unidiomatic. And it would sound different from "nova" (though that might not stop a punster from making the pun).

"Nova" gasoline, mentioned in the link, is of course the telling point.


----------



## jhpeterson (Sep 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Think about it, if I tell you that an 80 MP sensor would be a _notable_ feature of Canon's upcoming mirrorless camera, do you think I told you that having 80 MP means there's _no table_ in the camera (nor any chairs, either)? I hope not...


Maybe _not able_?


----------



## SteveC (Sep 11, 2019)

AlanF said:


> There is bound to be someone who believes you have to use a tripod...



And those who think a quadrupod would be even better.

(edit--not "quadruped," dang you autocorrect.)


----------



## Canon1966 (Sep 11, 2019)

Sounds good. I hope it includes IBIS. This would be a Canon I would go for. For now I'll keep using my 5D4.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

SteveC said:


> And those who think a quadrupod would be even better.
> 
> (edit--not "quadruped," dang you autocorrect.)


Well, technically a tripod has three feet, but also three legs. So, maybe quadruped is ok? 

Hold still, Fido!


----------



## BurningPlatform (Sep 11, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Pong. It has to have Pong.


How abour Arkanoid? https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8194.0


----------



## ericbowles (Sep 11, 2019)

The specs only make sense with dual CFExpress cards - not dual SD cards. Even UHS-II SD cards can only write to cameras at 150 MB/s. An 80 MP camera will have a 14 bit compressed file of 100 MB. So writing to two cards will take 1.3 seconds for a single file - the balance going into the buffer. When the buffer is full, you get one frame every 1.3 seconds. CFExpress will be in the 450 MB/s range or better and production was announced by Sandisk. At that speed you can write 2.3 fps to both cards or one frame every .4 seconds.


----------



## boiseblake (Sep 11, 2019)

The original 5DSR was announced in February 2015. Any guess on the likelihood of another February announcement?


----------



## Gözler (Sep 11, 2019)

It is not a matter of patience, but excitement, for me anyway. I have been using my 5D3 since the day it came out. I did not upgrade to 5D4 as it did not make sense for me. Than the whole mirrorless trend started so I decided to hold out until a full frame one that is in 5D league. But I am excited about getting a new Canon camera after using the same one since 2012. I need to wait longer as this one is likely to be a 5DS/R upgrade not 5D4.


slclick said:


> I think in the 11 months since the R release, Canon has introduced a nice amount of glass plus a 2nd body. However, reading here, you would think it's been around 5 years and Canon is lagging. Some of you people are unrealistic and downright impatient. It will happen, it just isn't magic or knee jerk reaction R&D. Do yourself a favor and study up on product cycles in the imaging industry.


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## unfocused (Sep 11, 2019)

neurorx said:


> Unfocused, may I ask what type of shooting you use your 5DSR? In your experience, is the keeper rate reasonable handheld?


I don't own a 5DSR. I do own a 7DII, which has the same density when scaled up and my wife owns an 80D. Any problems with the keeper rate have far more to do with focus and my own shortcomings than the pixel density.


----------



## mb66energy (Sep 11, 2019)

Tremotino said:


> what you want is a eos 5d mark iv for the price of a 200d.  and you want it now



? Never said that.

5D mark IV was for a long time close to 4000 EURO which is converted to USD roughly 4500 USD compared to the 2800 EURO of the mark III after a few months. 5D iv was not worth the money FOR ME.
If the high res EOS Rxyz has good overall IQ and a good firmware (incl. 20.6 MPix RAW file) it would be worth maybe 3000 or 4000 EUR.
Maybe I was not clear: I use 200D and M50 as interim solutions waiting for "the fullframe camera" ... because I do not want to pay a lot of money for an IMO not so well rounded solution.


----------



## Canon1966 (Sep 11, 2019)

All I want is a Canon camera with Sony specs...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 11, 2019)

Canon1966 said:


> All I want is a Canon camera with Sony specs...


Sometimes it’s good to remember that wanting can be more fun than having.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Sep 11, 2019)

wsmith96 said:


> Someone, somewhere is now trying to figure out how to make that actually happen....


Hey if it ever happens then I’m taking credit!


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 11, 2019)

Canon1966 said:


> All I want is a Canon camera with Sony specs...


Just buy the Sony and one of these and all your dreams can become reality.  Print that Canon logo and slap it on that Sony.





Canon Support for | Canon U.S.A., Inc.


Find support for your Canon . Browse the recommended drivers, downloads, and manuals to make sure your product contains the most up-to-date software.




www.usa.canon.com


----------



## Canon1966 (Sep 11, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sometimes it’s good to remember that wanting can be more fun than having.





CanonFanBoy said:


> Just buy the Sony and one of these and all your dreams can become reality.  Print that Canon logo and slap it on that Sony.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's funny! I've thought of that! LOL! I guess I'm loyal to Canon. Very funny!


----------



## bitcars (Sep 11, 2019)

It is total possible that this high megapixel body may come with a crop APS-C mode, making it also shoot like a mirroless "7D mark III" body. A 5DS and 7D body in one.

Here is my 2 cents:

1. Reading between the lines from this rumor, there is an emphasis on the joystick design for the high megapixel body. It sounds great to me, but seems a bit out of place. Perhaps the body is also geared for high speed shooting? fast accurate AF point control is critical there, but the only way for this to be possible is if the sensor is cropped.
2. The rumored 83 MP sensor scales down very conveniently to 90D and M6 mark II's sensor size. So if there is a crop APS-C mode in this high MP body, it would mean Canon only need minimum implementation effort, and easily reuse existing software.
3. A high mega pixel pro body has a lot of design features that also benefit an APS-C sports body, for example in 5DS and 7D mark II both have dual processor, extra buffer etc. Duel memory card and weather sealing are needed in both too.
4. Full frame DSLRs couldn't be "cropped" as APS-C format cameras, mainly due to OVF and AF system unable to change format on the fly. That isn't a problem for mirrorless cameras though. I bet Canon is aware of that.
5. As we know this body was a bit of a "head scratcher", a mirrorless body that replaces both 5DS and 7D II would certainly be unexpected.
6. Marketing. Canon is one of the first to cry "market contraction". Combining product lines to expand market share is in their strategy book. Canon's been sending out smoke screen about rumored high MP mirrorless for a while, successfully leading its competitors to react with product that doesn't generate a lot of sales. So if this does play out, Canon will be able to grab a sizable market share with a novel product line.

Not a lot of facts to root from, but we are just here to spread  discuss rumors anyway.


----------



## glness (Sep 12, 2019)

And, like the 5DS and 5DSR, it will be hamstrung by a dismal fps rate, for anything other than studio or landscape photography. When is Canon going to give us a full-frame, higher-megapixel camera that can shoot 10 fps (with AE & AF) like the Nikon 850 (9 fps with battery grip), the Sony A7R III (10 fps (Hi+ mode) & 8 fps (Hi mode)), or the new, 61-mp Sony A7R IV (10 fps).


----------



## unfocused (Sep 12, 2019)

bitcars said:


> It is total possible that this high megapixel body may come with a crop APS-C mode, making it also shoot like a mirroless "7D mark III" body. A 5DS and 7D body in one.
> 
> Here is my 2 cents...



1) I expect that the price point of the rumored high megapixel R will be about twice the price of a 7D, which probably makes it difficult for Canon to sell it to 7D users. 



bitcars said:


> ...Not a lot of facts to root from, but we are just here to spread rumors anyway.



Actually we are here to read and endlessly discuss rumors that Canon Rumors Guy gets from industry sources. Granted, many people on this site don't get that and try to spread rumors of their own, but when they do that, they are really just taking up space. I'm not suggesting that you are spreading rumors by the way, you are just speculating. I just want to clarify that readers of this site are in no way qualified to float rumors.


----------



## mph (Sep 12, 2019)

This camera looks terrific. I currently use a 5dsr, which is great, but more mp would be welcome. There are a bunch of archivists who, like me, could use those extra megapixels in a convenient to use package. It's the perfect camera for archival work all week and some general photography on the weekend.

All I'd like in addition to lots of mps is 4-5fps and a bit better af. That would make it the ideal all-rounder for me.


----------



## Joules (Sep 12, 2019)

unfocused said:


> 1) I expect that the price point of the rumored high megapixel R will be about twice the price of a 7D, which probably makes it difficult for Canon to sell it to 7D users.


It could well be that Canon splits the 7D customers into two groups. Those that just want a nice APS-C camera are expected to buy a 90D and those that use bug whites anyway are expected to be able to spend the extra cash for all the high end features a 7D III would have had over the 90D.

It would probably make life easier for Canon.

One thing to note is that this high speed crop mode would likely just work with electronic shutter, unless they put a 1DX II grade mechanical one in the camera. Not sure if that is feasible from a cost perspective.


----------



## Bahrd (Sep 12, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> I believe the "new type of joystick" is going to be an eight-directional touchpad controller building on the tremendous success of the touch bar on the R. Remember, you heard it from me first!


Actually, I wonder why Canon haven't yet implemented the ThinkPads' TrackPoints? It's a field-proven tech, has a tiny footprint and no moving parts (can easily be sealed then).

And it's red!


----------



## Kit Lens Jockey (Sep 12, 2019)

Probably because trackpoints were annoying to use, and it's not 1994.

On the other hand, I would welcome anything that's not the EOS R's underwhelming touch and drag system. It could be so much better if they just added some mopre user adjustable settings.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 12, 2019)

Pape said:


> i think its other way titlable viewfinder makes tiltable rear screen obsolete
> 
> easier make strong tilt viefinder with good locking position mechanism than strong tiltable rear screen.
> Hard believe peoples who need high resolution camera ,wants selfie screen too .
> ...


The Vloggers like the articulated screen.  I do too because I am old and stove up. It is nice to not have to get completely down on the ground when nobody is around to help meget up.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 12, 2019)

The 30 megapixel files are already causing lag on my 6 year old Dell XPS 8700 rig. I'd have to buy a new computer and a 4K monitor if I ever went to the high megapixel monitor. That ain't happening. I may just double the RAM to 32 mega bytes and upgrade the video card. Maybe the CPU is also swappable? Have a core i7 right now.


----------



## scyrene (Sep 12, 2019)

glness said:


> And, like the 5DS and 5DSR, it will be hamstrung by a dismal fps rate, for anything other than studio or landscape photography. When is Canon going to give us a full-frame, higher-megapixel camera that can shoot 10 fps (with AE & AF) like the Nikon 850 (9 fps with battery grip), the Sony A7R III (10 fps (Hi+ mode) & 8 fps (Hi mode)), or the new, 61-mp Sony A7R IV (10 fps).



Here we go again. Have you used the 5Ds(R)? It does 5fps, just 1fps less than the 5D3. Turns out you can shoot a lot of stuff at 5fps - I've used the 5Ds for everything and didn't feel hamstrung one bit (admittedly I don't do much truly high speed stuff like BIF or sport but I have used it for the former on occasion). Once again, why do these high res bodies have so many associated myths? People need to broaden their horizons!


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 12, 2019)

scyrene said:


> Here we go again. Have you used the 5Ds(R)? It does 5fps, just 1fps less than the 5D3. Turns out you can shoot a lot of stuff at 5fps - I've used the 5Ds for everything and didn't feel hamstrung one bit (admittedly I don't do much truly high speed stuff like BIF or sport but I have used it for the former on occasion). Once again, why do these high res bodies have so many associated myths? People need to broaden their horizons!


He'd never buy one anyway, just like most of the complainers who live dismal lives. For a camera like that, I would never expect high frame rates. It isn't meant to be fast. People really do have strange ideas or are just plain ignorant.


----------



## BillB (Sep 12, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> People really do have strange ideas or are just plain ignorant.


Strange ideas and ignorance often go together.


----------



## Quackator (Sep 13, 2019)

Today we have dual pixel AF, and now imagine what quad pixel AF 
on a 83MP sensor might be capable of.

Also, muse about those 83 MP binned down to 20something MP 
in a sports camera, where every pixel is already debayered from scratch.

Canon certainly have taken their time for painfully long,
but the outcome seems worth the wait.

Just pre-ordered the 15-35, and I am second in line at my favorite dealer.
Now have a hard time waiting for the thing to land.
Once decided, every minute more waiting time is too much


----------



## Trey T (Sep 13, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> CF is a dead format.


Not precisely. Some people like myself have only used the original Compact Flash, not QXD or CFexpress. They could very well be using CFexpress like on the new C500 cinema camera. 

If that’s the case, this camera will likely fit Canon’s conceptual model of “consolidation”, which could be a FF and cropped (ie APS-C size) sensor operation. With APS-C (eg 32MP) size sensor reading and CFexpress, it can be a 7D Mark II upgrade for sport and wildlife


----------



## Bahrd (Sep 13, 2019)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Probably because trackpoints were annoying to use, and it's not 1994.


Well, as they say in 2019:


> There are some people who would never buy a ThinkPad, and there are others who flock to Lenovo's flagship business family every time the company makes an update.


----------



## SteveC (Sep 13, 2019)

I'm thinking that we could see something like this develop:

A 1D--equivalent R (call it the R1)
A 5D-equivalent (call it the R5), replacing the current R
A 5D S equivalent (call it the R5S)
A new 6D (R6), replacing the current RP.

The "normal" sensors (for everything but the S) would maybe run about 50-60MP. The S model would have the full 83MP scaling up from the APS-C 32MP. There could even be S versions of the 1 and 6. You'd be trading more resolution for slower speed, lower fps.

Current 7D users could use any S version, cropped down to APS-C size, (or for that matter the non-S version) so I could see them using an R6S in crop mode. It might even be about the same price.


----------



## Ozarker (Sep 14, 2019)

SteveC said:


> Did Chevrolet Blunder in Marketing the Nova in Latin America?
> 
> 
> Is it true that Chevrolet couldn't market its Nova in Latin America because the brand name means "it doesn't go"? Turns out, it's just an urban legend.
> ...


*Todo es culpa tuya. No son modos de comportarse. ¿es que no podemos hablar de esto como adultos? *


----------



## mkamelg (Sep 15, 2019)

Written from the point of view of EOS 5DS user since its release, now also from the point of view of EOS R user from a few months. This new camera model could own:

 - basic ISO sensitivity down to level ISO 50 or lower as very high resolution sensors are extremely noisy, using EOS 5DS even on ISO 100 especially when taking photos on a hot day you can be unpleasantly surprised

  - some form of sensor stabilization, which in combination with lens stabilization will allow you to use some more sensible exposure times when taking hand-held photos (in EOS 5DS, going below 1/250 sec. may cause problems with taking a non-blurred photo)  

- some form of sensor cooling (maybe something like what is in the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H camera) to limit the number of dead/stuck/hot pixels when taking night photos with longer exposure times, the sensor in EOS 5DS after several years of use resembles a multi-colored constellation

  - lithium polymer battery with a larger capacity to increase the speed of writing data to memory cards and increase the efficiency of the processor or processors due to the greater energy supplied to the camera

- more silent fully mechanical shutter

 - reinstatement of light sensor that was missing in EOS R so that both displays (rear LCD panel and EVF) could adjust their brightness to the prevailing lighting conditions  

- reinstatement of instant picture cropping function (FULL, 1.3, 1.6, 1:1, 4:3, 16:9) under the M-Fn button which is present in EOS 5DS and is not present in EOS R which I personally think is a great scandal  

- elimination of error occurring in EOS R causing random hanging of the camera during manual switching between the rear LCD panel and EVF, this error has still not been eliminated in the latest firmware version 1.3.0 and I wrote about it here https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/eos-r-af-with-1-2-0-firmware.37259/#post-783042 when I had earlier versions of firmware installed.


----------



## Otara (Sep 15, 2019)

That error sounds like a pain but Ive never had it. Hope it does get fixed in the release but Ive never seen it mentioned anywhere else, so you might have a dud unit or bad firmware update. I hope it gets resolved.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2019)

mkamelg said:


> - elimination of error occurring in EOS R causing random hanging of the camera during manual switching between the rear LCD panel and EVF, this error has still not been eliminated in the latest firmware version 1.3.0 and I wrote about it here https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/eos-r-af-with-1-2-0-firmware.37259/#post-783042 when I had earlier versions of firmware installed.


Have you contacted Canon?


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Sep 15, 2019)

mkamelg said:


> - some form of sensor cooling (maybe something like what is in the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H camera) to limit the number of dead/stuck/hot pixels when taking night photos with longer exposure times, the sensor in EOS 5DS after several years of use resembles a multi-colored constellation


That's interesting (to me at least). I've not come across that as a concern before. 

I know all sensors will eventually develop the odd hot pixel, but never heard of it on that sort of magnitude before. Is it a common 5Ds issue, something to do with the ever smaller size of pixels do you think? 

Anyone else had this issue on a 5Ds or other FF sensor?

Thanks
Stoical.


----------



## deleteme (Sep 16, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I'm thinking that we could see something like this develop:
> 
> A 1D--equivalent R (call it the R1)
> A 5D-equivalent (call it the R5), replacing the current R
> ...


I agree with maybe the R5 could be about 40MP with a plain doubling to the S and just 20MP for the 1.

As for nomenclature the R5 was a Renault of the 70's (one I liked) and the R1 is a Sony tag so can't do that. So maybe 5R "fiver?" oops, online sweatshop company.


----------



## mkamelg (Sep 16, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Have you contacted Canon?



Yes of course. I contacted several times with Canon Services & Support for my country. I wrote them what settings I use and they were unable to replicate the error I noticed on their copy of the camera with firmware 1.2.0.

They wrote to me later to send the camera to a service so I did it. The service checked the camera and both adapters (EF-EOS R and Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R) and found that everything was fine.

If they spent say five minutes with the camera trying to replicate this error, it is not surprising that they did not detect anything because it manifests itself at random times. You can catch it ten minutes after starting the camera, "reset" this error*, take photos later throughout the day and catch it again at the end of the day.

*By "reset" this error" I mean having assigned to some button under the tab "C.Fn4: Operation" under "Customize buttons" function "Switch between VF/screen” and then switch with this button briefly to the EVF and back on the LCD display.



StoicalEtcher said:


> I know all sensors will eventually develop the odd hot pixel, but never heard of it on that sort of magnitude before. Is it a common 5Ds issue, something to do with the ever smaller size of pixels do you think?



I believe that this is a scale effect. The larger the sensor, the more problems visible on it.

Maybe I exaggerated a bit with this constellation but... I currently have three cameras in stock at home: Fujifilm X-M1 (16 Mpix) since 2014, Canon EOS 5DS (50 Mpix) since 2015 and Canon EOS R (30 Mpix) since 2019.

In 2018 I did a simple "test" based on JPEG files from Canon EOS 5DS and Fujifilm X-M1. Based on JPEG files because they are independent of the photo processing software used. You can download them from here https://1drv.ms/u/s!Asmd3i9rvqAblmopWfhPRXRHAsks?e=fvg4ai and then increase the exposure to the maximum plus in the photo processing program you use (on example in Lightroom in Develop mode). Do you see any difference?


----------



## SteveC (Sep 16, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> I agree with maybe the R5 could be about 40MP with a plain doubling to the S and just 20MP for the 1.
> 
> As for nomenclature the R5 was a Renault of the 70's (one I liked) and the R1 is a Sony tag so can't do that. So maybe 5R "fiver?" oops, online sweatshop company.



I created that notional nomenclature for convenience--the "R6" is just the RF version of the 6D, etc.

I wouldn't expect Canon to follow that, by any means, but I hope they DO decide to do something that won't just be totally random looking (RX, RS, RP, R...). At least the numbers have a progression--mostly.


----------



## Joules (Sep 17, 2019)

Mbell75 said:


> 80 megapixels? Its probably going to cost $5k and get ready to spend thousands more on a new computer to handle the massive files, ridiculous. This pretty much confirms that the EOS R is all we are getting. Nothing in the 30-40MP range with IBIS, dual card slots, full 4K video etc...Canon is pathetic.


This camera has a high chance of getting IBIS, based on all the patents we've seen in the recent past. Full 4K video is basically a guarantee as the M6 II can do that now, although it seems that it used an inferior means to get there compared to the slightly cropped 90D 4K mode. Dual card slots aren't so unreasonable, given that this will probably be priced above the R. 5k seems like an unreasonable expectation, given how much cheaper than the 5D IV the R is, and how cheap the 5DS is.

And reduced resolution modes will be there for sure. In this camera they could go for actual binning to get a ~20 MP image. Or simply downscale the RAW file in camera. They'll probably offer a solution for that.

All in all, that doesn't seem pathetic to me. They filled out the lower half of their lineup, were the challenges are maybe not as difficult, and now comes the higher end, where they can show off their new tech. The refresh of the R and RP will come at some point, and by then Canon will have all their ML tech on a level that leaves Sony with little Space to run off to.


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Sep 17, 2019)

mkamelg said:


> I believe that this is a scale effect. The larger the sensor, the more problems visible on it.
> 
> Maybe I exaggerated a bit with this constellation but... I currently have three cameras in stock at home: Fujifilm X-M1 (16 Mpix) since 2014, Canon EOS 5DS (50 Mpix) since 2015 and Canon EOS R (30 Mpix) since 2019.
> 
> In 2018 I did a simple "test" based on JPEG files from Canon EOS 5DS and Fujifilm X-M1. Based on JPEG files because they are independent of the photo processing software used. You can download them from here https://1drv.ms/u/s!Asmd3i9rvqAblmopWfhPRXRHAsks?e=fvg4ai and then increase the exposure to the maximum plus in the photo processing program you use (on example in Lightroom in Develop mode). Do you see any difference?


mkameig,
Many thanks for your response. (I haven't downloaded the files, as our system here doesn't allow downloads from 'unknown sources', but I appreciate you going to the trouble to share). 

Still interested to hear whether other 5Ds users have experienced unusually high numbers of hot pixels?

Stoical.


----------



## scyrene (Sep 21, 2019)

StoicalEtcher said:


> mkameig,
> Many thanks for your response. (I haven't downloaded the files, as our system here doesn't allow downloads from 'unknown sources', but I appreciate you going to the trouble to share).
> 
> Still interested to hear whether other 5Ds users have experienced unusually high numbers of hot pixels?
> ...



I haven't.


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## Ozarker (Sep 22, 2019)

Mbell75 said:


> 80 megapixels? Its probably going to cost $5k and get ready to spend thousands more on a new computer to handle the massive files, ridiculous. This pretty much confirms that the EOS R is all we are getting. Nothing in the 30-40MP range with IBIS, dual card slots, full 4K video etc...Canon is pathetic.


Another Sony troll.


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## AaronT (Sep 23, 2019)

StoicalEtcher said:


> mkameig,
> Many thanks for your response. (I haven't downloaded the files, as our system here doesn't allow downloads from 'unknown sources', but I appreciate you going to the trouble to share).
> 
> Still interested to hear whether other 5Ds users have experienced unusually high numbers of hot pixels?
> ...


Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.


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## Ozarker (Sep 23, 2019)

AaronT said:


> Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.


I never knew lens cap on exposure was a thing. Learn something new everyday. I assume because it is very hard to see a few hot pixels, out of millions, under normal conditions? Then what does one do when one finds a hot pixel? Does Canon replace the sensor? Do they show up on prints?


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## StoicalEtcher (Sep 24, 2019)

AaronT said:


> Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.


Thanks AaronT,
4 hot pixels doesn't sound too bad, to me at least - not something that would be overly obvious in normal everyday use, as you say. 
Cheers


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## AlanF (Sep 24, 2019)

AaronT said:


> Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.


You got me doing the same exposure on my ancient 5DSR with a body cap on, and then a 150s exposure. I then inverted the colours in PS so the hot pixels would show up as black on a white background. Basically, there were no hot pixels just some very, very faint grey ones, presumably due to noise. The file size increased from 48 mpx to 48.1 on increasing exposure 5 fold. Thanks for the idea.


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## AaronT (Sep 26, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I never knew lens cap on exposure was a thing. Learn something new everyday. I assume because it is very hard to see a few hot pixels, out of millions, under normal conditions? Then what does one do when one finds a hot pixel? Does Canon replace the sensor? Do they show up on prints?


If you have just a few hot/dead pixels and they don't show up in your photos, my don't, just forget about them. Out of many millions they are not significant. if you have a bunch then Canon can "map" them out. Dust on the sensor is a much bigger problem than a few bad pixels.


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## Ozarker (Sep 26, 2019)

AaronT said:


> If you have just a few hot/dead pixels and they don't show up in your photos, my don't, just forget about them. Out of many millions they are not significant. if you have a bunch then Canon can "map" them out. Dust on the sensor is a much bigger problem than a few bad pixels.


Ahhh... I think the wifes Olympus can map them out in camera.


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## Pape (Sep 28, 2019)

Hmm i dont think canon would look good if releasing 80mpixel high resolution camera.
They would lose their face when interviewed and asked why their high resolution camera is just 16 mpixel bigger than sonys all around camera.
Maybe that 80 mpixel patent is for 5D5 and high res would be then 150mpixel around 2x general cameras resolution ?
i still think canon strikes back 
And if they manage upscale their best sensor atm 32mpx crop one to 80mpx why they would waste it to high resolution model?


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## wockawocka (Sep 29, 2019)

AaronT said:


> If you have just a few hot/dead pixels and they don't show up in your photos, my don't, just forget about them. Out of many millions they are not significant. if you have a bunch then Canon can "map" them out. Dust on the sensor is a much bigger problem than a few bad pixels.



It's because people prefer to play with tech rather than use it for it's intended purpose.


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## stevelee (Sep 29, 2019)

hollybush said:


> "RS" is a hilariously unsuitable name for a camera in Australia, because it's a common variation of this crude expression to describe something that doesn't work properly. But then again, Mitsubishi kept selling the Pajero...


Reminds me of "Chevy no va" in Spanish.


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## stevelee (Sep 29, 2019)

Steve Balcombe said:


> Including the UK where nobody knows what Pajero means.


Maybe it has a Wankel rotary engine.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 29, 2019)

stevelee said:


> Reminds me of "Chevy no va" in Spanish.


That’s been debunked, sorry.


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## stevelee (Sep 29, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> That’s been debunked, sorry.


I know that. But I was still reminded of it. And it is still funny.


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## SteveC (Sep 29, 2019)

hollybush said:


> "RS" is a hilariously unsuitable name for a camera in Australia, because it's a common variation of this crude expression to describe something that doesn't work properly. But then again, Mitsubishi kept selling the Pajero...



Nothing stopped Toyota from prominently displaying TRD on their trucks in the States...there's only one way to pronounce that.


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## JohnC (Sep 30, 2019)

Pape said:


> Hmm i dont think canon would look good if releasing 80mpixel high resolution camera.
> They would lose their face when interviewed and asked why their high resolution camera is just 16 mpixel bigger than sonys all around camera.
> Maybe that 80 mpixel patent is for 5D5 and high res would be then 150mpixel around 2x general cameras resolution ?
> i still think canon strikes back
> And if they manage upscale their best sensor atm 32mpx crop one to 80mpx why they would waste it to high resolution model?




if they can keep/improve base ISO performance at that resolution I would love to have it for a hi-res body. I actually crop quite a few of my landscape shots. The more resolution the better unless I pay and IQ penalty. We will see.


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## GoldWing (Dec 22, 2019)

Canon can't make a 1DXMKIII with over 20MP.... They are not going to compete with Hasselblad... SONY lost a huge customer base when they abandoned their clients by discontinuing products. Canon could shoot themselves in the foot and it will not be trusted to the extent that big investments and budgets will be made the way they used to. Something is really off at Canon when buzz is out about an 80MP camera and their "supposed" flagship is supposedly being released with a pathetic 20MP.


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## falcnr (Dec 28, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> I’d have to imagine the video specs will be mundane considering the resolution as clearly this isnt built for video. That said I’d also imagine this is where we see the new IBIS system being rumored to work in tandem with lens IS for some crazy good combo IS with even more than 5 stops of performance. My only real complaint with my 5DSR is that it’s (understandably) nearly impossible to hand hold shoot and get maximum effectiveness of the high-res without some really high shutter speeds which arent always possible even at times with an IS lens. An 83MP sensor would even further exaggerate this issue without some amazing IBIS (short of having to tripod shoot all the time). Cant wait to see what they come up with!


 So refreshing to read this as I have been frustrated by the low keeper rate of this camera when trying to pull off a handheld shots at still wildlife. I've had some killer images but they seem few and far in between and i couldn't figure out what was the cause other than the fact the resolution highlighted any flaws in settings or shooting style. I nearly always was shooting at a shutter speed that my 1DX2 would nail down cold. When it works it is stunning but i can't handle the low keeper rate and it is simply impractical to only use with tripod.


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## gouldopfl (Dec 29, 2019)

ethanz said:


> No 24p, Canon is dumb


Canon added 24p to the EOS R and RP through a firmware update. It would be nice if had full frame video, but CR said they had no video spec's


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## gouldopfl (Dec 29, 2019)

falcnr said:


> So refreshing to read this as I have been frustrated by the low keeper rate of this camera when trying to pull off a handheld shots at still wildlife. I've had some killer images but they seem few and far in between and i couldn't figure out what was the cause other than the fact the resolution highlighted any flaws in settings or shooting style. I nearly always was shooting at a shutter speed that my 1DX2 would nail down cold. When it works it is stunning but i can't handle the low keeper rate and it is simply impractical to only use with tripod.


I don't have the strength in my upper body the way I did 40 years ago. I use a monopod with my R. Mine has feet when I need more stability. I can use both my 70-200 and 15-600 with a monopod


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## gouldopfl (Dec 29, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> You laugh, but using the touchscreen for this works well, except for those with smaller hands. A small touch box might work well, sort of like a mini touchpad ala a laptop's touchpad. If you moved your finger to the side it could scroll more quickly than a joystick and as you brought it in to the middle it could slide the focal points to a smaller area. You could also do some neat ui tricks on the display by drawing a box around a zone of points, and moving your fingers to the edge of the touchpad moves that outer box to quickly zoom to another area of the display then moving more towards the middle selects the points in that zone.
> 
> You could do this with an analog style joystick too - light touch moves just one or two points at a time, hard push to the side moves 10-15 points at a time. If you've ever used a PS4 or Xbox, this would be analogous to the stick controller.


I love the ability to use my thumb to drag the focus points


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## gouldopfl (Dec 29, 2019)

padam said:


> Dual slots, IBIS, more controls maybe better weather sealing and dual processors to keep up with the speed will obviously add to the size.
> It is still going to be smaller and lighter than the 5DsR (or a Panasonic S1)
> The vast majority of RF lenses (which will be the most suited for the megapixel count) will feel right at home.


I believe that until Sigma and Tamron come out with RF mount lenses Canon will continue to round out their 1.2, 1.4 range at exhorbant prices. I moved to the Tamron SP G2 lens when I bought the R and compared to a friends canon EF lenses, in many cases the Tamron is just as good or better.


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## gouldopfl (Dec 29, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> Buy the EOS R then .. it exists.
> 
> For the rest of us, I'm fine with a "slightly" larger body in addition to my EOS R.


I agree. I bought the battery grip for the R for a little larger size.


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## gouldopfl (Dec 29, 2019)

slclick said:


> I think in the 11 months since the R release, Canon has introduced a nice amount of glass plus a 2nd body. However, reading here, you would think it's been around 5 years and Canon is lagging. Some of you people are unrealistic and downright impatient. It will happen, it just isn't magic or knee jerk reaction R&D. Do yourself a favor and study up on product cycles in the imaging industry.


The 2020 Olympics are causing all the activities IMO


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## gouldopfl (Dec 29, 2019)

Bennymiata said:


> Because old farts like me prefer to look through a viewfinder!
> 
> I'm waiting to replace my 5d3. I would prefer a dslr but I'm willing to look at this new mirrorless if the evf is better than the R has.


What is wrong with the EVF? I find it far superior to older Canons I've owned. Also if the live view only tilts up and down that would be a huge setback to the full articulating of the current ROS R & RP. I would like to see the focus stacking in camera the RP has added.


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## dcm (Dec 30, 2019)

falcnr said:


> ... I nearly always was shooting at a shutter speed that my 1DX2 would nail down cold. When it works it is stunning but i can't handle the low keeper rate and it is simply impractical to only use with tripod.



This may not be an apples to apples comparison as many will undoubtedly point out, but I think the analogy can help explain some of what you are seeing. I'm ignoring IS for this discussion.

To freeze motion, shutter speeds must be higher for the smaller pixels found in the APS-C or high-res full frame sensors. I've always used a minimun shutter speed of 1/focal length on FF and 1/2*focal length on APS. But it was really about density, not sensor size. Astrophotography helped me understand why higher shutter speeds are necessary on dense sensors to avoid star trails or blurry images. This table shows maximum shutter duration for various bodies with a 100mm lens attached. The required shutter speed varies based on the density (pixel size) determined by sensor size and MP, https://www.lonelyspeck.com/advanced-astrophotography-shutter-time-calculator/comment-page-3/. I set the tolerance to 11 pixels to show a better range. To get a 1 pixel tolerance simply divide the shutter time by 11.


sensorMPlenstoleranceshutter (seconds)1DXII FF20100116.27DII APS20100113.95Ds FF50100113.9Rs FF80100113.1M6II APS-C32100113.1Ra FF30100115.1
 

Whenever there is movement (whether the subject or me), a similar thing occurs - astrophotography or not. I have the 1DXII and M6II and never use the same settings - even when shooting side by side. On the M6II, I've modified the auto minimum shutter speed under ISO speed settings to +1 which effectively halves the shutter speed and doubles the ISO when I'm in Av. In M mode, I compensate with aperture or ISO. For me, post processing can help with noise without downsampling, blur not so much.

When I was looking at the 5Ds I figured I would need to adjust shutter speed by 2/3 of a stop, roughly the same as shooting with a 7DII. I'm now planning to purchase the Rs, knowing that I might need to shoot at half the shutter speed to achieve equivalent effect.


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## padam (Dec 30, 2019)

gouldopfl said:


> I believe that until Sigma and Tamron come out with RF mount lenses Canon will continue to round out their 1.2, 1.4 range at exhorbant prices. I moved to the Tamron SP G2 lens when I bought the R and compared to a friends canon EF lenses, in many cases the Tamron is just as good or better.


Canon is expanding in both ways gradually, there will be more non-L lenses added to the current 24-240/4-6.3 and 35/1.8

It will be nice to have more options, but the RF-mount will probably benefit from Canon lenses the most, since those were designed from the ground up for that (a collapsible and a pancake lens will be coming for sure)
While other manufacturers will be thinking of other mirrorless mounts as well that are different, so they might not be as ground-breaking, they are just variations of existing ones.
In any case, more options will be better.


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## Mikehit (Dec 30, 2019)

dcm said:


> This may not be an apples to apples comparison as many will undoubtedly point out, but I think the analogy can help explain some of what you are seeing. I'm ignoring IS for this discussion.
> 
> To freeze motion, shutter speeds must be higher for the smaller pixels found in the APS-C or high-res full frame sensors. I've always used a minimun shutter speed of 1/focal length on FF and 1/2*focal length on APS. But it was really about density, not sensor size. Astrophotography helped me understand why higher shutter speeds are necessary on dense sensors to avoid star trails or blurry images. This table shows maximum shutter duration for various bodies with a 100mm lens attached. The required shutter speed varies based on the density (pixel size) determined by sensor size and MP, https://www.lonelyspeck.com/advanced-astrophotography-shutter-time-calculator/comment-page-3/. I set the tolerance to 11 pixels to show a better range. To get a 1 pixel tolerance simply divide the shutter time by 11.
> 
> ...



If you have a subject moving across the field of view, (a star, to take your example) it will describe an arc across the sensor. For any given shutter speed, that arc will be the same whether you are using a 20MP sensor or a 50MP sensor. So if you use a faster shutter speed on the low MP sensor, won't that also reduce the star trail in the same way?


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## dcm (Dec 31, 2019)

Mikehit said:


> If you have a subject moving across the field of view, (a star, to take your example) it will describe an arc across the sensor. For any given shutter speed, that arc will be the same whether you are using a 20MP sensor or a 50MP sensor. So if you use a faster shutter speed on the low MP sensor, won't that also reduce the star trail in the same way?



The arc across the sensors would be the same when measured in millimeters, but not in pixels. In the example I'm comparing star trails of 11 pixels which can be scaled down to 1 pixel. If I want an image with no star trails (a 1 pixel star remains a 1 pixel star), the high MP sensor requires a faster shutter speed to not produce a trail. In my case I need a 2X faster shutter speed on the M6II compared to the 1DXII if I want no star trail using the same lens.


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## Mikehit (Dec 31, 2019)

So you are saying that at the same shutter speed, the 1Dx does not produces a star trail but the M62 does ? 
Is this the case if you have cropped the 1Dx2 for the same field of view? I ask this because if you have not cropped the 1Dx2 image you are looking at different magnifications (being, APS-C the M6ii will effectively be a crop of the 1Dx2).
Similarly, if you are looking at both images at 100%, you are looking at the M6ii image at a greater magnification than the 1Dx2.


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## Valvebounce (Jan 1, 2020)

Hi Mike.
My understanding is that both cameras will have a star trail however at the same shutter speed the 1DxII will have (about) half as many pixels so viewed at 1:1 the star trail will appear shorter (Due to the lower pixel count?). Not sure what happens at full screen with one being a crop!

Cheers, Graham. 



Mikehit said:


> So you are saying that at the same shutter speed, the 1Dx does not produces a star trail but the M62 does ?
> Is this the case if you have cropped the 1Dx2 for the same field of view? I ask this because if you have not cropped the 1Dx2 image you are looking at different magnifications (being, APS-C the M6ii will effectively be a crop of the 1Dx2).
> Similarly, if you are looking at both images at 100%, you are looking at the M6ii image at a greater magnification than the 1Dx2.


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## Mikehit (Jan 1, 2020)

That's my point - viewed at 1:1 there will be a difference because the M611 has more pixels so it is a larger presentation. 
Full screen will be the same. It is like cropping out a section of the 1Dxii image then magnifying it to fill the screen.


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## Mikehit (Jan 1, 2020)

dcm said:


> The arc across the sensors would be the same when measured in millimeters, but not in pixels. In the example I'm comparing star trails of 11 pixels which can be scaled down to 1 pixel. If I want an image with no star trails (a 1 pixel star remains a 1 pixel star), the high MP sensor requires a faster shutter speed to not produce a trail. In my case I need a 2X faster shutter speed on the M6II compared to the 1DXII if I want no star trail using the same lens.



So you what you really mean is that you are taking advantage of the greater pixel density of the M6ii to create a more highly resolved image and give greater cropping ability, and if you want to use that advantage you need a faster shutter speed - that I agree with.


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## bernie_king (Jan 2, 2020)

Canfan said:


> Hope is my isn’t larger than the EOSR. I think the R’s size should be the limit for mirrorless cameras. I think camera manufacturers need to think about that.


I'm actually hoping it's bigger. That being said I like the size of my 1 Series cameras. Different preferences I guess


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## MrToes (Apr 15, 2022)

It has been quite a long time since this has been reported on, I hope they will release this high MP beast soon.


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