# Renaming Canon's Speedlite relationships?



## YuengLinger (Jul 8, 2015)

Recently in the USA, we've seen dramatically increased sensitivity to a shameful part of our history, the slave industry that existed before our Civil War in the 1860's.

If the US media finally picks up on the Speedlite terminology of master/slave to describe the relationship between controlling and responding flash units, and Canon feels the heat, what would be good alternative names?

I don't like hyper political-correctness, but I'd still feel uncomfortable teaching a lighting class to individuals who might be offended at what they perceive as a callous, unnecessary micro-aggression.

So, suggestions for new terminology?

NOTE: I am not posting to start a debate about the pros and cons of the current convention, but here in the USA, it seems inevitable that the current convention will face criticism. I'm merely looking for suggested alternatives, which should be a fun exercise--not a political discussion.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jul 8, 2015)

One of my flash books brought this issue up. Honestly, I did not really understand the problem. In the context of electronics, master and slave really have nothing to do with the human historical aspect.

Now, if I were discussing the relationship between a photographer and an assistant and I used Master and Slave, that would be of a concern-- because it would be in a human context.

Is anyone, regardless of race, really getting offended when reading about electronic component relationships?

What words would we use for a component that directs a component that only responds to the command?

Director was also a term used in slavery. Just because a term was used in a "bad" context does not mean that it should not be used in other "good" contexts. 

Would "Controller" and "Controlee" be any better?

Are people concerned that we still have white and black wires in electronic devices? I hope not. 

Black wires are the dangerous hot wires and the white wires are neutral.. what does that indicate....well nothing really. 

Is this really an issue?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 8, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Black wires are the dangerous hot wires and the white wires are neutral.. what does that indicate....well nothing really.
> 
> Is this really an issue?



It's a huge issue. Perhaps after the EU Parliment settles the similarly huge issue of freedom of panorama, they can draft a motion for all internal wiring to be pastel shades not including blue or pink...


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## mrzero (Jul 8, 2015)

Transmitter & receiver.


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## Ozarker (Jul 8, 2015)

I've no problem with calling one flash "Master" and the other "Slave" as long as everyone has agreed to a "Safe Word".


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## zim (Jul 8, 2015)

Employer/employee
Him/her
Pimp/hoe
Canon/Nikon
Bilbo/Samwise
Neuro/Dilbert

........ there sorted, think I offended just about everyone


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## YuengLinger (Jul 8, 2015)

;D


CanonFanBoy said:


> I've no problem with calling one flash "Master" and the other "Slave" as long as everyone has agreed to a "Safe Word".



I'll drink to that.


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## tolusina (Jul 8, 2015)

zim said:


> Employer/employee
> Him/her
> Pimp/hoe
> Canon/Nikon
> ...


Boss/Peon


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## Haydn1971 (Jul 8, 2015)

Master / Slave

EU / Greece ?

Oh wait, they said no to the deal ;-)


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 9, 2015)

The same issue was actually brought up decades ago in regards to the IDE master/ slave designation for computer drive connections. Not widely, of course, but it was debated - the debate was killed by SATA, which only has one drive per port/ cable, so it didn't matter.

One problem is that all other options (that I can think of) are much more of a mouthful: commander and subordinate, general and soldier, director and actor (though the last pair is at least a bit funny for a camera company to use).


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## rporterfield (Jul 9, 2015)

Flasher / flashee

Oh, wait...


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## YuengLinger (Jul 9, 2015)

Not easy, is it?

Pitcher/catcher? Baseball is becoming less and less relevant in the USA, but it's still played in Japan, right?

Nikon uses "commander" and "slave," correct? 

Ummm...

Sargent/private? (The camera could be a lieutenant, with the photographer being the general.)


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## tcmatthews (Jul 9, 2015)

In one project I worked on we called them Controller and Remote Interface Unit (RIU). This avoided the whole issue. Master/Slave terminology is quite common in low level computer interfaces.


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## retroreflection (Jul 9, 2015)

Dom and Sub.
One syllable, nobody could ever be offended, right?


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## Travler (Jul 9, 2015)

I have seen this already in some industries. Some have gone to Parent & Child. Don't like it butt may be the thing to come.


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## distant.star (Jul 9, 2015)

.
"Micro aggression." How George Carlin would have treasured that one!!

https://youtu.be/o25I2fzFGoY


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## Pookie (Jul 9, 2015)

It's not the names that are at issue... It's the confederate flag internal shielding that's going to be the real problem for Canon.


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## wopbv4 (Jul 10, 2015)

mrzero said:


> Transmitter & receiver.



+1
Easy to understand and it describes what is happening


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## YuengLinger (Jul 10, 2015)

wopbv4 said:


> mrzero said:
> 
> 
> > Transmitter & receiver.
> ...



But both are transmitting. Plus, it's just too easy to shorten to 'tranny,' which some also consider insensitive. :-X


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## Kristofgss (Jul 10, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> wopbv4 said:
> 
> 
> > mrzero said:
> ...


I thought tranny was short for transmission (car part). Turns out google images didn't think that way. I liked the transmitter - receiver concept though.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jul 10, 2015)

mrzero said:


> Transmitter & receiver.



The problem with that is that using those terms does not really describe the relationship. There is much more involved in the relationship than just transmitting and receiving. One is controlling and the other is being controled.

Let's just call it Male Female, where the Male is the controlling one and the Female takes the orders. If you are gonna offend people, go big! ;D


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## axtstern (Jul 10, 2015)

This discussion reminds me about the day when my father (new to the Internet) googled his Profession "Leder Meister" (Leather Master) and instantly lost his Religion over the results...


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## Roo (Jul 10, 2015)

this about sums it up...


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## tolusina (Jul 10, 2015)

Kristofgss said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > wopbv4 said:
> ...


Otto or Manny?


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## distant.star (Jul 10, 2015)

.
Great image!! I don't know if it's all a T in a T, but the image is superb!




Roo said:


> this about sums it up...


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## Bernd FMC (Jul 11, 2015)

Photographics is our Fetisch - see it in a Way like Fifty Shades of Gray ;D 

So the Slave is happy in its Way of Existance 8) .

We can also swap the Assignment, one 600RT can be a Master for one Shooting, the others rotated in a correct Way so no one will feel like a worthless Slave ( you should not buy a Master-only Device to avoid Problems ) .

Tranceiver/Reciever ( Tranceiver ) - as written above both are Trannys - but the Master has the Controls over the Situation.

We control the Masterdevice - so the Master ist a Slave of us - except we don´t knew what the Devices do - like the Dog hwo controls the Human in a wrong Hirachy.

In German we could say "Steuerndes Gerät ( Master ) - gesteuertes Gerät ( Slave )"
^ control Device ^ controled Device

Germans are Master in finding political correct Words - but the other Nations are not our Slaves .

An other Way of wasting Time, but if you recognize a smile on your Face this Topic isn´t useless  .

Greetings 

Bernd


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## Khristo (Jul 11, 2015)

Active / passive.


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## JonAustin (Jul 11, 2015)

Roo said:


> this about sums it up...



Exactly; I was thinking "tempest in a teapot" as I was reading through the posts on the first page. "Tempest in a teacup" is close enough.

Third definition of "slave" in Merriam-Webster: "a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another."

The sensitivity to terminology (not to mention the numerous double standards applied) nowadays just floors me, as does the general -- and apparently increasing -- level of ignorance among those for whom English is purportedly their native language.

The word "niggardly" raised a ruckus in Congress a couple of years ago, because some were ignorant of its meaning, and it sounds too much like, well, you know, that word which blacks can use at will, but which is racist for anyone else to utter. (Let's face it, its a distasteful racial slur, regardless who expresses it.)

More recently, I've heard that the term "thug" is now off-limits, because it allegedly invokes racial connotations and propagates stereotypes.

Finally, although its first use dates back to the mid-60's, I've been bemused by the term "mentee," which I first heard in the late '90's. I suppose that for some, the term "protégé," borrowed from the French, sounded too aristocratic or high-falutin' ...

We're losing the language, people, right along with the culture and the economy and ...


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 12, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> Pitcher/catcher? Baseball is becoming less and less relevant in the USA, but it's still played in Japan, right?



This one also bring up other connotations too, of course.


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## eninja (Jul 13, 2015)

wopbv4 said:


> mrzero said:
> 
> 
> > Transmitter & receiver.
> ...



But you know, deep down, both parties transmit and received, during communication protocol.
I vote master and slave. 
Master - transmit data/instructions
Slave - receives data/instructions


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 13, 2015)

eninja said:


> wopbv4 said:
> 
> 
> > mrzero said:
> ...



Actually, with optical control it's one way. The RT protocol adds two-way communication, which is quite useful.


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## TheJock (Jul 14, 2015)

zim said:


> Employer/employee
> Him/her
> Pimp/hoe
> Canon/Nikon
> ...


LOL ;D
I suppose "giver & taker" is off limits too then!!
Personally speaking I think it’s political correctness gone mad! There’s nothing wrong with Master/Slave. 
People in the industry have called it that for years and people coming to learn it as a new subject should really just get with the flow, after all it’s the name given to an electronic device; or how it works!


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 14, 2015)

Tarsem and vasel.


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## zim (Jul 22, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tarsem and vasel.



Lol or you could just shorten it to S&M 

And yes I'll admit I did actually look up 'Tarsem and vasel' before realising what you did there ;D


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## RGF (Sep 3, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Black wires are the dangerous hot wires and the white wires are neutral.. what does that indicate....well nothing really.
> ...



Perhaps blacks are hot and white are cool - hold it, racial overtones again ... :-\


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## alexanderferdinand (Oct 1, 2015)

Alice and Bob- like in Quantum physics.


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## rfdesigner (Aug 13, 2016)

The entire worlds electronics industry uses master/slave, be it for chip to chip communication, radios, module to module whatever, this ripples across to the aviation industry, the car industry.. anything that makes a substantial use of electronics.

It's appropriate because the "slave" is supposed to do exactly what the "master" tells it, no matter how inconvenient, race doesn't come into it.

Now if Canon released flash triggers in white and left the flash guns in black... THEN there might be a problem.

On the race relation issue, the USA is somewhat unique in the degree of race problems, and it's history with slavery. No other major country I can think of had half the country founded on slavery. So will Canon change it's naming of a worldwide product for the sake of 350Million North Americans?.. I doubt it.


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## old-pr-pix (Aug 13, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> ... On the race relation issue, the USA is somewhat unique in the degree of race problems, and it's history with slavery...


Better go back and check your history books. Slavery dates back to well before the U.S. even existed -- like back to 6800 BC. The official abolition of slavery in Britain didn't occur until 1834. France followed in 1848. The U.S. wasn't too far behind with the Emancipation Proclamation being issued in 1863. It is very traumatic to change something so fundamental to the development and economy of a nation -- even when it is absolutely the right thing to do!


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 13, 2016)

Overlord and vassal.


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## old-pr-pix (Aug 13, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Overlord and vassal.


+1 ... you are so PC!


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## LDS (Aug 13, 2016)

old-pr-pix said:


> Better go back and check your history books. Slavery dates back to well before the U.S. even existed



There's a little difference - in most other countries true slavery (not other forms of "employment" very close to it) was no longer in use (but oversea, colonies or the like) well before it was actually abolished legally. Also, in those countries slavery often had not a racial connotation - in Europe slaves (serfs, or whatever), were most of the time white as their "masters", and thereby trying to enforce afterwards a legal "segregation" was much harder. And segregation in the US lasted till fifty years ago.

Anyway, should we also find a different description for male and female plugs and the like? It has of course a strong sexual connotation... <G>.

And what about bayonet mounts, with their war derived meaning?


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## rfdesigner (Aug 13, 2016)

LDS said:


> old-pr-pix said:
> 
> 
> > Better go back and check your history books. Slavery dates back to well before the U.S. even existed
> ...



+1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_British_Isles


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## Ozarker (Aug 13, 2016)

LonelyBoy said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pitcher/catcher? Baseball is becoming less and less relevant in the USA, but it's still played in Japan, right?
> ...




My gay cousin would be highly offended, however, since I play the outfield it doesn't bother me in the least.


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## Jim Saunders (Aug 14, 2016)

I'd hazard a guess that Leader/Follower is about as good as it is going to get. I mean the master/slave thing in a technical sense works fine, but we're all human and I think the question is worth considering.

Jim


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## old-pr-pix (Aug 14, 2016)

LDS said:


> old-pr-pix said:
> 
> 
> > Better go back and check your history books. Slavery dates back to well before the U.S. even existed
> ...


I think you are just reinforcing my point - slavery predates the US. Historically one ethnic group often enslaved another ethnic group especially following a victory on the battlefield. The resulting tensions that induced continue today in some parts of the world. The US isn't unique in having residual tension; but, at least in the US there are peaceful attempts at mitigation. (One can argue how well it is doing, however that would be well outside a CR forum.) 

Using more politically correct terminology won't change history; but Canon is certainly free to use whatever terminology it feels is most readily understandable and marketable.


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## RGF (Aug 14, 2016)

zim said:


> Employer/employee
> Him/her
> Pimp/hoe
> Canon/Nikon
> ...



sender / receiver


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## RGF (Aug 14, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Black wires are the dangerous hot wires and the white wires are neutral.. what does that indicate....well nothing really.
> ...



why not put skull and cross on the hot wire and smily face on the ground :


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## Don Haines (Aug 14, 2016)

primary/secondary


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## Vivid Color (Aug 14, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> primary/secondary



+1


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## axtstern (Aug 14, 2016)

this discussion about reminds me about a night I had in a Japanese bar.
The male english teacher from New Zealand and his female counterpart form the US had brought a flock of girls from their language school all in their twenties to introduce me to them and over a three our cocktail battle they all got wasted. With me to proud to ask the teachers for help and all the girls in a coma I tried to plot the course to the jacks, wondering how they mark the genders. The owner of the bar had painted 3 large funny looking manga styled smiling sperms on one door and a crosshair on the other one. Well might be offensive to some but it was very helpfull for a stranger in strange land.


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## chrysoberyl (Aug 15, 2016)

Führer/Untermensch - oh, wait - Zim already covered that with Neuro/Dilbert...


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## chrysoberyl (Aug 15, 2016)

But really, my vote goes to 'Transmitter & receiver'.


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## rfdesigner (Aug 15, 2016)

chrysoberyl said:


> But really, my vote goes to 'Transmitter & receiver'.



arrrgh.. no. as already explained, that means something else.


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## pwp (Aug 16, 2016)

What a navel-gazing discussion! Jeez there are some over-sensitive souls around. Slave & Master? 

Just checked up on a few online Thesaurus sites for Slave & Master synonyms. 
There's really nothing there that will do the job as well good old politically incorrect Slave & Master.

Let's stay with familiar and functional politically incorrect. BTW loved the Tempest in a Teacup image back a couple of pages. ;D

-pw


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## Don Haines (Aug 16, 2016)

JonAustin said:


> Third definition of "slave" in Merriam-Webster: "a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another."
> 
> The sensitivity to terminology (not to mention the numerous double standards applied) nowadays just floors me, as does the general -- and apparently increasing -- level of ignorance among those for whom English is purportedly their native language.
> 
> ...



I was reading an English book from the mid 1800's and there was a line about how it was getting cold so "throw another faggot on the fire"..... Now there's an expression that has had it's meaning change considerably over the years......


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## pwp (Aug 16, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> I was reading an English book from the mid 1800's and there was a line about how it was getting cold so "throw another faggot on the fire"..... Now there's an expression that has had it's meaning change considerably over the years......


...as is "having a gay old time". Useful words get usurped all the time, it's part of the evolving, living language. 

Here's an opportunity for the photography industry to completely usurp the words Slave & Master, transitioning the meaning into something completely benign. 

-pw


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## Don Haines (Aug 16, 2016)

pwp said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I was reading an English book from the mid 1800's and there was a line about how it was getting cold so "throw another faggot on the fire"..... Now there's an expression that has had it's meaning change considerably over the years......
> ...


so instead of Canon/Nikon we should use Master/Slave?


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## pwp (Aug 16, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Hah! ;D Let's do it.

-pw


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## IglooEater (Aug 16, 2016)

pwp said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I was reading an English book from the mid 1800's and there was a line about how it was getting cold so "throw another faggot on the fire"..... Now there's an expression that has had it's meaning change considerably over the years......
> ...



Now there you are. That's exactly what came to my mind. Personally I'd not change it. But if I had to, I like transmitter/receiver. I know they both do both, but a pitcher also catches the ball, and a catcher also pitches (throws) the ball. It could be controller and trigger, but "trigger" might upset the gun control people. While we're at it, we might change the name "flash", as that's not well seen in respectable circles. Canon should also stop making white the color of their high-end lenses. I mean really. While we're at it, canon should probably also change their name, as "shooting" someone with a "canon" will upset the gun control folks again. Also, we need to change all the wires/port terminology of male/female, as the binary of gender is offensive to some. On the other hand, insinuating no difference between sexes is offensive to others. Maybe we just need to stop worrying our read ends off about these issues and just act courteously towards everyone. And maybe visible minorities need to realize that not every slip of the tongue is aimed at them personally and get over it. 

Time to listen to Kung Pao Buckaroo Holiday


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## IglooEater (Aug 16, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Black wires are the dangerous hot wires and the white wires are neutral.. what does that indicate....well nothing really.
> ...



No that's no good. It could be discriminatory against colour-blind people, barring them from becoming electricians


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## Ozarker (Aug 16, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> On the race relation issue, the USA is somewhat unique in the degree of race problems, and it's history with slavery. No other major country I can think of had half the country founded on slavery. So will Canon change it's naming of a worldwide product for the sake of 350Million North Americans?.. I doubt it.



Actually, the slaves were already here before the founding of the country. Brought to the colonies by the British. All thirteen British colonies allowed for slavery. There were white slave owners, black slave owners, and indian slave owners.

Almost immediately after the revolutionary war several states began to abolish slavery and the Constitution of the United States of America laid the groundwork for the final end to state supported slavery.

In 1776 the Spanish controlled most everything from the Mississippi River and West to California and all of Mexico. This area was called New Spain.

The British controlled Florida, West Florida, and most everything East of the Mississippi River to the revolting Colonies. By the end of the Revolutionary War, Spain had also taken over Florida and West Florida.

The British didn't bring anything new to the Americas regarding slavery. It was already here before Europeans got here.

North American Indians had their own nations, wars, slavery, and human sacrifice (human sacrificearticularly the Aztecs and Inca in the area we now call Mexico.).

So I don't know what you mean by "half the country founded on slavery." Half, not any part of the U.S.A, was founded on slavery. The United States was NOT a major country at the end of the Revolutionary War either.

The United States is not unique in any degree as far as racial problems go. There is nothing new under the sun.

By the way: Ever use the word enthralled? It is an old middle English word meaning bondman or slave. The "thrall" part is an adaptation from an old Norse word for slave or servant. Scandanavians used to raid to the south (Germania, etc) and capture thralls (slaves).

Slavery has been around since the beginning of man. It still exists today in many countries and cultures.

What constitutes a "major country" changes over time too. The Roman Empire controlled all of North Africa, a swath of Asia, and a huge part of Europe and also Britannia means it was once a "major empire". Slavery was rampant. yet nobody would ever say that Rome was founded on slavery.

Like most other words, they can be applied in different ways.

Slavery has been around for Millennia. 

In electronics the terms master and slave have absolutely no racial connotations. heck, there's a Master Cylinder in your car that controls the slave cylinders (wheel cylinders or calipers) at each wheel. There's another in the clutch system that controls the throw-out bearing. It is found in pneumatic and all kinds of different technologies.

Japan is a far older country than ours and also with a history of slavery... A Major Country since at least the 12th century and some would argue for 10,000 years depending upon how one defines "Nation State".

So for anyone to get offended about master/slave when explaining a relationship between people, mechanical parts, or electronics is just silly. 

I hope the Japanese never cave to this.  No matter how hot the fragile little Snowflakes get.


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## Ian_of_glos (Aug 16, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > Third definition of "slave" in Merriam-Webster: "a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another."
> ...



Is that because there is now an edible version as well?


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## lion rock (Aug 16, 2016)

Head and toes?
This is just an exercise of pairing words, I don't think we'll change anything in the foreseeable future. Culture and traditions are not easily changed in one or two generations, but new ideas can be adopted and entrenched in society pretty rapidly.
-r


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## Quackator (Aug 16, 2016)

Funny, people care about perceived "micro-aggressions" by the use
of historic words, and ignore that their country is at the same time 
bombing numerous other countries on a daily basis.

I'd rather have verbal micro-aggression than real macro-aggression.


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## Ozarker (Aug 16, 2016)

Quackator said:


> Funny, people care about perceived "micro-aggressions" by the use
> of historic words, and ignore that their country is at the same time
> bombing numerous other countries on a daily basis.
> 
> I'd rather have verbal micro-aggression than real macro-aggression.



Just the idea of micro-aggression is dumb. People need to man up and uncheck their testicular privilege. Let's just call it aggression, and if we have to search for it microscopically through a macro lens... it isn't worth crying about. Bombs away!


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