# Why only 20.2 MP for the 1DXMarkII ?



## JumboShrimp (Feb 7, 2016)

Just wondering if Canon is telling us that 20.2 MP is "enough" for a FF DSLR, and that more MP isn't needed for "quality" images ?


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## candc (Feb 7, 2016)

No, they make the 50mp 5ds also. Different uses. They have said they are going to make cameras intended for specific needs. Both fit the bill.


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## Mancubus (Feb 7, 2016)

You can't have 14+ fps and over 150 photos buffer if the file sizes are big. This is a camera built for speed.


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## tpatana (Feb 7, 2016)

Mancubus said:


> You can't have 14+ fps and over 150 photos buffer if the file sizes are big. This is a camera built for speed.



Plus high-iso noise is better.

So yes, there's plenty reasons for that, and there's different market segment for high Mpix bodies.


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## brianftpc (Feb 7, 2016)

If they give us too many more megapixels without radically redesigning the sensor then they risk putting out a camera thats meant to excel in low light thats only as good or worse than the previous generation and thats just not gonna sell. If im taking pictures in a gym with bad lighting im not upgrading my camera for more megapixels....im upgrading so my images can look better at a higher iso or so i can shoot on the same iso but at a higher shutter speed to freeze action better. 

Theres a reason why there a 6D, 5D and 5Ds. So that those cameras can fulfill a different need for other photographers. 

I own an 18mp 1Dx. Why would i buy a 24mp 1Dx mk2 that has an equal quality low light as the camera i already own. If i want more megapixels then i just buy the 5D mk4.

Ive never once griped about how big my pics are. Every gripe i have revolves around autofocus and low light. Improve that with each generation and you have me a reason to upgrade.

I own a 5dsr for a reason and a 1dx for another. If you try to combine them youll make a camera that excells at nothing.


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## RGF (Feb 7, 2016)

I think part of the sensor size limit is due to the speed the move data off the sensor.

To move data at 16 FPS may be close to the bus limit.


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## Hillsilly (Feb 7, 2016)

As mentioned above, there are technical reasons why the MPs have to be moderate. But just going back to the OPs original point, a camera like the 1DX2 is designed with a particular buyer in mind. And through the design process, feedback and ideas are sought from likely purchasers. All of the final specs would tend to be group consensus. Amongst the group, 20mp is seen to be good enough (or at least a reasonable trade-off given the camera's other performance attributes).

And FWIW, unless you are making large prints or doing severe crops, 20mp is fine for virtually everything you'll likely want to do. Especially given the ease with which we can merge panoramas these days.


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## KitsVancouver (Feb 7, 2016)

candc said:


> No, they make the 50mp 5ds also. Different uses. They have said they are going to make cameras intended for specific needs. Both fit the bill.


Canon used to make a 1Ds line for high resolution and a 1D line for speed. They "merged" the lines with the 1Dx so I'm not sure when Canon said they are going to make "cameras intended for specific needs" within the context of the 1Dx line. Can you reference a link? 

The link below is contrary to your information:
http://www.canon.ca/inetCA/en/products/method/gp/pid/12279 
"The Ultimate EOS. 
Canon has brought the best of the EOS-1D Series of digital cameras into one phenomenal model: the new flagship of the EOS line, the EOS-1D X*."

I was hoping and expecting to buy the next 1Dx but with only 20 megapixels, I'm not sure. Let's not get into why I want the higher resolution because we all know that's a long discussion. I wish Canon kept the 1Ds line alive (with lower speed).


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## nvsravank (Feb 7, 2016)

aha so you are in the camp that wants high MP in a 1D series body and a hold over from 1Ds line. 

Bad news for you. I don't think there are enough of folks like you asking. Or maybe the folks they do ask are not in the 1D camp as much and are satisfied with the 5D line bodies. One of your group needs to become a canon master or something to get their attention. Posts in CR don't count I presume. 

Good luck. 


KitsVancouver said:


> candc said:
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> > No, they make the 50mp 5ds also. Different uses. They have said they are going to make cameras intended for specific needs. Both fit the bill.
> ...


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 7, 2016)

Because a camera aimed journalism will require ISO 6400 with low noise?
Because megapixel reduce the image transfer speed?
Because a double page print magazine requires 16 megapixel?
Because humans do not distinguish details above 300DPI?


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## rfdesigner (Feb 7, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Because a camera aimed journalism will require ISO 6400 with low noise?
> Because megapixel reduce the image transfer speed?
> Because a double page print magazine requires 16 megapixel?
> Because humans do not distinguish details above 300DPI?



+1

also people have been starting to suggest you need 1/(2x fl) (or similar) minimum speed for the 5Ds(R)

if you're shooting with a 400mmfl in somewhat low light do you really want a minimum 1/800 speed?.. you've just lost half your photons, and that's before we look at the ability of the sensor to turn photons into bytes.

This is a sports/wildlife camera not a landscape camera.


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## AlanF (Feb 7, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
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> > Because a camera aimed journalism will require ISO 6400 with low noise?
> ...



"1/(2x fl) (or similar) minimum speed for the 5Ds(R)" is for lenses without IS.


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## Don Haines (Feb 7, 2016)

RGF said:


> I think part of the sensor size limit is due to the speed the move data off the sensor.
> 
> To move data at 16 FPS may be close to the bus limit.


it will do at least 60FPS.... (video). Even my p/s camera can read a 16Mpixel sensor at 240 FPS so that's probably not a bottleneck....


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## Don Haines (Feb 7, 2016)

bigger pixels means more light gathered.... more light gathered becomes better high ISO performance.


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## rfdesigner (Feb 7, 2016)

AlanF said:



> rfdesigner said:
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> > ajfotofilmagem said:
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lens for lens you'll still lose a stop.


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## rs (Feb 7, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> AlanF said:
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> > rfdesigner said:
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Not forgetting that just like the magnification of camera shake, there is additional subject motion magnification if you want pixel sharp images from a higher MP sensor, again necessitating a faster shutter speed. IS has no bearing on that.


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## tpatana (Feb 7, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> RGF said:
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> > I think part of the sensor size limit is due to the speed the move data off the sensor.
> ...



I'm quite sure it doesn't move 240 raw files per second, at 16Mpix. But that doesn't really prove one way or another if the bus is bottleneck or not.

Now thinking this, does anyone know what the lane types are out from the sensor, and the clock/data speed on those? Is there like crazy-wide serial bus running at jiga-hertz speed or how it's done?


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## AlanF (Feb 7, 2016)

rs said:


> rfdesigner said:
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You can always downsize a 50 mpx image to 20 mpx to reduce the blur to what you would have got had you used 20 mpx native.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 7, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Don Haines said:
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Sure it does, it doesn't write them as RAW, but they start out that way.


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## dolina (Feb 8, 2016)

JumboShrimp said:


> Just wondering if Canon is telling us that 20.2 MP is "enough" for a FF DSLR, and that more MP isn't needed for "quality" images ?


I think it is part of the limitation of it having a CF card slot and power consumption. By the time that only a dual CFast slot SKU 1D X body comes out then expect 50MP sensors to be employed by as early as 2020.


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## Don Haines (Feb 8, 2016)

dolina said:


> JumboShrimp said:
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> 
> > Just wondering if Canon is telling us that 20.2 MP is "enough" for a FF DSLR, and that more MP isn't needed for "quality" images ?
> ...


I must be a beta-tester for the 1DX4.... I have a DSLR with 8Mpixels and it works great


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## KitsVancouver (Feb 9, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
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> > Because a camera aimed journalism will require ISO 6400 with low noise?
> ...


No doubt it's a sports camera. I wonder if Canon is "moving" studio/portrait photographers to the 5D series.


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## Maiaibing (Feb 14, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Because a double page print magazine requires 16 megapixel?



Long time since you sold to a magazine?


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## privatebydesign (Feb 14, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
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> 
> > Because a double page print magazine requires 16 megapixel?
> ...



Too true!

I remember years ago having a 4mp 1D and a magazine wanting to use an image but saying it was too small, I resampled the file at the size they wanted and sent it back, they were extatically happy that I had a high resolution image as well!

Also there is the story of Joe McNally who convinced National Geographic that digital was an acceptable medium when he showed the executives 20" x 30" prints from the 4mp Nikon cameras at the time.

I once sent a sample 170kb image in to a magazine for content approval, they ran it as it was!


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## RGF (Feb 14, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Maiaibing said:
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> > ajfotofilmagem said:
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a number of years ago, I got a great image of bull moose shredding its velvet near Wonder Lake in Denali National Park.

1D M2 (? - camera was around 11 MP). I was far enough away that I had to crop the image in half. I printed it 12x18 and the image very good, sharp enough, ...


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## bdunbar79 (Feb 14, 2016)

Who cares about printing? Sports shooters today (the intent of the camera) don't print. We need photos that get blown up big...on the Internet. In that case, 4 MP's are not enough and in my opinion 18MP images cropped too heavily suck. Most of them get rejected. More MP's are always better. With that said, 18 or 20 are enough, but I'm tiring of the 4 MP or print 16x12 in the magazine war stories that are irrelevant.


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## RGF (Feb 15, 2016)

bdunbar79 said:


> Who cares about printing? Sports shooters today (the intent of the camera) don't print. We need photos that get blown up big...on the Internet. In that case, 4 MP's are not enough and in my opinion 18MP images cropped too heavily suck. Most of them get rejected. More MP's are always better. With that said, 18 or 20 are enough, but I'm tiring of the 4 MP or print 16x12 in the magazine war stories that are irrelevant.



irrelevant perhaps to you but not to me. I print. I don't shoot sports, I shoot wildlife. I seldom submit anything full rez to the internet, perhaps you do, if so (in all seriousness) I would like to know how it is used. My internet submissions (not paid) are generally 1000 on a side, max.


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## KitsVancouver (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm not a professional but I care about the best possible IQ I can capture for my kids as they grow up. For me, resolution is a big deal because it is part of the capture of the moment. For some, that capture only considers the memory but for me, I also want as many fine details as possible. It's too bad the technology in this camera can't satisfy both sports shooters and those looking for maximum IQ.


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## slclick (Feb 16, 2016)

Where does it say the 1Dx line is a strictly sports shooter body? Canon did away with it's separate 1D bodies and merged into a best of both worlds system. I am not convinced the emergence of the 5Ds/r lines changed the non sports usage of the 1Dx.


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## dslrdummy (Feb 16, 2016)

I hope 20mp is enough because I've just sold my 5Diii and am in the process of getting rid of the 7Dii for a 1DXii. I shoot sports (on big fields) and wildlife and usually crop so it could be touch and go. But I reckon it will be worth it for the speed and AF in AI servo which I expect to be stellar.


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