# TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results



## mukul (Jul 26, 2017)

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Camera-Noise.aspx?Camera=1141

To me it seem have better/lesser noise @1600 compared to SL1 

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Camera-Noise.aspx?Camera=1141&Test=0&ISO=1600&CameraComp=835&TestComp=0&ISOComp=1600


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## Maximilian (Jul 26, 2017)

mukul said:


> To me it seem have better/lesser noise @1600 compared to SL1


Thanks for sharing! 

At least one good news about this camera. 
But honestly I would have been as disappointed about the noise performance as I am already about the AF system.

Please don't forget that the sensor of the SL1 was already some times old as it was reused in this camera. 
So we have a 6+ years old sensor compared to the latest APS-C sensor from Canon.
If there weren't any improvements visible I'd be at least puzzled.


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## mukul (Jul 26, 2017)

It seems SL2 is at par in noise @1600 with both 80D and 800D

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Camera-Noise.aspx?Camera=1141&Test=0&ISO=1600&CameraComp=1111&TestComp=0&ISOComp=1600

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Camera-Noise.aspx?Camera=1141&Test=0&ISO=1600&CameraComp=1044&TestComp=0&ISOComp=1600


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## Maximilian (Jul 26, 2017)

mukul said:


> It seems SL2 is at par in noise @1600 with both 80D and 800D


Should be because it's the same sensor, AFAIK.
So RAW should be the same. Only in-body-JPEG-processing could be different.


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 26, 2017)

mukul said:


> It seems SL2 is at par in noise @1600 with both 80D and 800D
> 
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Camera-Noise.aspx?Camera=1141&Test=0&ISO=1600&CameraComp=1111&TestComp=0&ISOComp=1600
> 
> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Camera-Noise.aspx?Camera=1141&Test=0&ISO=1600&CameraComp=1044&TestComp=0&ISOComp=1600



Going back and forth a bunch it actually looks cleaner to me - less blotchy under Centimeters and in the darker Green, Yellow, Red, and Magenta boxes.


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## Sarpedon (Jul 26, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:



> mukul said:
> 
> 
> > It seems SL2 is at par in noise @1600 with both 80D and 800D
> ...



Yes, and it's actually pretty noticeable when you compare definition in the numbers on the chart. 

Hey, look at that: Canon improved image quality on a cheaper camera in the same sensor format!

(Just messing with y'all, don't @ me!)


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## mb66energy (Aug 5, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> mukul said:
> 
> 
> > It seems SL2 is at par in noise @1600 with both 80D and 800D
> ...



Same sensor should give same results ... if the (electronic) enviroment is the same. My feeling is too that the SL2 / 200D results seem to be marginally better then the over bodys which is great news because I want to replace 40D and 600D with one light and small body. IQ is paramount so the 9 pt AF system will be sufficient ... especially because of DPAF which gives much more creative freedom to choose the subject which has to be in focus.

If the IQ of the SL2 / 200D is comparable to the 5D classic I will keep it (ordered one and will compare it) for ultrawide shots with the EF-S 10-22 and not buy the 16-35 4.0 EF lens - I need/like ultrawide sometimes but I am more the tele photographer.

The SL2 / 200D won against M5 because it has similar size with EF / EF-S lenses (shorty fourty, EF-S 60mm macro and has less power consumption. I really like distance scales on lenses so the native EF-M lenses aren't for me. I will keep the old EOS M for my FD lenses which are great for scientific photography (easy setting of distance and aperture in dark environments).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 5, 2017)

I just received my Sl2 Wednesday evening. I took a snapshot in low light while configuring the options menu to get it setup the way I like. Because light was dim, it came out at ISO 20,000. I had to double check because the amount of noise was a lot lower than expected. I don't recall if I had yet changed it from jpeg to raw.

The measure I use to compare them is the retention of detail as well s colors. Other than a few walking around the yard photos to confirm it works, I have not had time to finish setting it up.

My hand aches while holding it, I have large hands as well as carpal tunnel, so that may be a factor.

It takes a long time between live view shots, I need to find out why I have to wait a few seconds.


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## Sharlin (Aug 5, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> mukul said:
> 
> 
> > It seems SL2 is at par in noise @1600 with both 80D and 800D
> ...



The 24MP DPAF sensors are all very similar but almost certainly not the exact same sensor. Tweaks and improvements in design and fabbing happen all the time. PTP.net and DxO data, for instance, indicate that the the 80D has about 1/3 stop advantage over the M5/M6 over the whole ISO range. For whatever reason.


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## Sharlin (Aug 5, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Going back and forth a bunch it actually looks cleaner to me - less blotchy under Centimeters and in the darker Green, Yellow, Red, and Magenta boxes.
> ...



Looks like there's less color noise specifically, at least at higher ISOs? Bryan captures the test images with zero in-camera noise reduction and uses DPP for RAW conversion, apparently adding neither luma nor chroma NR in post either. But in real life you basically always want some base amount of the latter - for example LR has 25 dialed in by default and that rarely needs to be changed.


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## mb66energy (Aug 5, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Maximilian said:
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> > mukul said:
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I think just if they use the exactly same sensor and have no variation due to the production process you will have different behaviour in different cameras.
80D has much more space, maybe some step-up or step-down regulators are placed far away from the sensor while M5 and M6 do not allow such a distant spacing due to package size. Or it depends on the frequency of the step-up/down converters how much noise is generated in the sensor photosites. This is just an idea but: After optimizing the power supplies for my Hifi amps and DAC I had a lot oddities in voltage variations before I had the final set-up. Electronics is not only about using the right components - its a lot about placing them well on PCBs or inside a system.

Maybe with the SL2 they found an optimum solution for component choice and placement ...?!


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## mb66energy (Aug 5, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I *just received my Sl2* Wednesday evening. I took a snapshot in low light while configuring the options menu to get it setup the way I like. Because light was dim, it came out at ISO 20,000. I had to double check because the amount of noise was a lot lower than expected. I don't recall if I had yet changed it from jpeg to raw.
> 
> The measure I use to compare them is the retention of detail as well s colors. Other than a few walking around the yard photos to confirm it works, I have not had time to finish setting it up.
> 
> ...



red: I have to wait at least until monday ... but I am more and more interested in that little cam

blue: While I have no carpal tunnel syndrome I expect a similar thing with my moderately large hands. But I have a 3D printer to create some grip extension  Maybe it's a matter of finding the right finger position - I like to have the little finger under the camera to gain more control.

pink: Maybe a matter of AF mode (just an idea) - a simple "no-tracking" and "no face recognition" mode should be faster.


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## Sharlin (Aug 5, 2017)

mb66energy said:


> 80D has much more space, maybe some step-up or step-down regulators are placed far away from the sensor while M5 and M6 do not allow such a distant spacing due to package size. Or it depends on the frequency of the step-up/down converters how much noise is generated in the sensor photosites.



I agree that it could just be a question of RF attenuation or maybe more efficient thermal design afforded by the larger body. Or perhaps higher quality parts used. Canon has said that the sensors are not identical, but of course we don't know what exactly they mean.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 6, 2017)

mb66energy said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I *just received my Sl2* Wednesday evening. I took a snapshot in low light while configuring the options menu to get it setup the way I like. Because light was dim, it came out at ISO 20,000. I had to double check because the amount of noise was a lot lower than expected. I don't recall if I had yet changed it from jpeg to raw.
> ...



I found part of the answer, apparently, the 2 second review time causes the camera to wait for two seconds when using the touch shutter release. When using the shutter button, its not a issue, it takes shots pretty much as fast as I can press the shutter. I tried setting the review time to 4 seconds, it took much longer before I could tough the screen to take a photo. However, even with the review turned off, there is a delay. Solution - use touch to focus and the shutter button to capture. I had noticed the same issue with my new 5D MK IV but had not spent any time quantifying it, I thought it might be a memory card thing. A low level card format makes no difference.

I'll be checking this out further on both cameras.


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## mb66energy (Aug 6, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> mb66energy said:
> 
> 
> > 80D has much more space, maybe some step-up or step-down regulators are placed far away from the sensor while M5 and M6 do not allow such a distant spacing due to package size. Or it depends on the frequency of the step-up/down converters how much noise is generated in the sensor photosites.
> ...



Thanks for this info - I never read that! So it's maybe a combination of both factors.


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## mb66energy (Aug 6, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> [...]
> 
> I found part of the answer, apparently, the 2 second review time causes the camera to wait for two seconds when using the touch shutter release. When using the shutter button, its not a issue, it takes shots pretty much as fast as I can press the shutter. I tried setting the review time to 4 seconds, it took much longer before I could tough the screen to take a photo. However, even with the review turned off, there is a delay. Solution - use touch to focus and the shutter button to capture. I had noticed the same issue with my new 5D MK IV but had not spent any time quantifying it, I thought it might be a memory card thing. A low level card format makes no difference.
> 
> I'll be checking this out further on both cameras.



Thanks for your research! DPAF is one reason to buy a new camera (besides of more DR, compactness and vari angle disp). Hopefully it is useful for macro work in windy conditions with some AF tracking of macro subjects. A touch to focus/shutter release for off center subjects is maybe the only solution to get usable images ... getting more and more problems not thinking about my SL2 on the way to my hands


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## Woody (Aug 6, 2017)

The most sensible way to compare is to download the RAW files and run them through ACR (or something equivalent). This method yields rather similar results from Canon 77D, 80D and M5.


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## foo (Aug 6, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I found part of the answer, apparently, the 2 second review time causes the camera to wait for two seconds when using the touch shutter release. When using the shutter button, its not a issue, it takes shots pretty much as fast as I can press the shutter. I tried setting the review time to 4 seconds, it took much longer before I could tough the screen to take a photo. However, even with the review turned off, there is a delay. Solution - use touch to focus and the shutter button to capture. I had noticed the same issue with my new 5D MK IV but had not spent any time quantifying it, I thought it might be a memory card thing. A low level card format makes no difference.
> 
> I'll be checking this out further on both cameras.



On my 5d4 it appears to be a UI related thing, it's too busy mucking about with flashing the shutter count icons etc.. Regardless of the review time there seems to be a 1-2 second delay before the Q and touch shutter icons return when you use the touch shutter. Also if the drive mode is set to H, you still only get single shot from the touch shutter... all of which suggests the touch shutter takes a different path from the physical shutter button.

It's not an AF or IS thing either, I tried with MF and IS turned off as well. Actually.... I'm wondering if with touch shutter it's waiting until the buffer has cleared?

Seems like another one for Jacks caveats thread...


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## mb66energy (Aug 8, 2017)

I see the same behaviour in my SL2 / 200d which arrived yesterday.

Maybe - while this is observed in 5d iv too - it is the delay between configuring the sensor between Live View Mode and Stills Capture Mode (this is my wording not Canon's so I have no internal information). In the live view mode the sensor bins berhaps several photosites together to reduce the resolution the digic processor has to manage for a 30Hz display with ... reduced resoultion. If the sensor has some on-board electronics, setting another mode needs some time to propagate. To have clean analog signals one has to wait until the sent digital signals effects on analog circuitry are close to zero.

While writing this I checked, if MF will shorten the lag - it doesn't so AF accuisition as main reason for the lag can be excluded.



mb66energy said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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## mb66energy (Aug 8, 2017)

About the threads topic:

I observed that the grip of the SL2 / 200d is getting warm after a few minutes of use. My first thought was: Oh it sucks a lot of energy from the battery, if the battery gets that "hot".

But the battery isn't located inside the grip but in the body structure itself. Maybe they placed the digic vii and other electronics like the voltage converters inside the grip. If the sensor has ADCs on chip which can be assumed it is much easier to separate sensor and processor because only digital signals have to be transmitted which works lossless (information-wise).
The region behind the sensor (under the display) was not warm - opposite to my experience with the 600D / T3i(?) .

If that is the case: Kudos to the engineers of Canon ...

First checks with images show very precise tonal values and good capability to lift darker areas to overcome high contrast scenarios. I do that not just for fun but to regain my visual experience from the raw data of the camera.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 8, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> It takes a long time between live view shots, I need to find out why I have to wait a few seconds.



check to see if you have image preview turned on. that's usually the culprit.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 8, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > It takes a long time between live view shots, I need to find out why I have to wait a few seconds.
> ...



Yes, I posted later that image preview slows it down. I'm not even sure why image preview is turned on by default in live view. Turning it off reduces the delay, but its still too long. Using the shutter button eliminates the issue, touch the screen to place the focus point where you want it, then use the shutter button to track the subject and close the shutter. You can use continuous drive and AEB by holding the shutter button, but not by touch of the screen.

I still have issues holding the camera, right now, I'm thinking I'll return it for a 80D, its no fun using a camera if it makes your hand cramp. No such cramp issue with my 5D MK IV.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 9, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> rrcphoto said:
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> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
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i found the SL1 a little too small. I also find the M5 a little uncomfortable to hold for long periods of time.

there's nothing like the 5D /1D grip and feel where you can just hold onto that camera for hours on end without a problem.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 9, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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> > rrcphoto said:
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I just sold my 1D MK III, I bought it after I thought my carpal tunnel was over, I had surgery on both hands three years ago and sold my 1D MK IV. I found that my wrists could not handle the 1 series. I think a 80D would be ok. I was wanting a small camera to take to places where a bigger one was too much. I really like the SL2, except for holding it. I bought a 15-85mm EF-s lens today for it, so I'm committed to a crop body. I'll carry the SL2 around some more. Its the carpal tunnel, my grip using my thumb is weak, the 5 series bodies fit great and do not put so much stress on my thumb. With the SL2, my thumb covers the corner of the touch screen unless I grab it with the end of my thumb and pinch it. That puts lots of stress on the thumb.

I requested a RMA from Canon tonight by email, I have difficulty hearing over the phone.


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## mb66energy (Aug 9, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> [...]
> 
> I just sold my 1D MK III, I bought it after I thought my carpal tunnel was over, I had surgery on both hands three years ago and sold my 1D MK IV. I found that my wrists could not handle the 1 series. I think a 80D would be ok. I was wanting a small camera to take to places where a bigger one was too much. *I really like the SL2, except for holding it. * I bought a 15-85mm EF-s lens today for it, so I'm committed to a crop body. I'll carry the SL2 around some more. Its the carpal tunnel, my grip using my thumb is weak, the 5 series bodies fit great and do not put so much stress on my thumb. With the SL2, my thumb covers the corner of the touch screen unless I grab it with the end of my thumb and pinch it. That puts lots of stress on the thumb.
> 
> I requested a RMA from Canon tonight by email, I have difficulty hearing over the phone.



What a pity!

I have luck because I can hold it without cramping - no carpal tunnel syndrome / large hands but maybe thinner fingers that helps sometimes. For me it is much much easier to hold than the 600D. 40D or 5D are better and maybe comparable to the 80D.

I have made three views how I can hold the 200D comfortably -the quality is bad because I made them with my 200D _*via one / two mirrors of bad quality*_ (potential 200D buyers: THIS DOES NOT REFLECT THE TYPICAL IQ OF THAT CAMERA 

Maybe it helps ... good luck.


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 9, 2017)

mb66energy said:


> For me it is much much easier to hold than the 600D. 40D or 5D are better and maybe comparable to the 80D.



Same here - I try to hold the XXXD the same way as the larger bodies, and it doesn't work. The SL1 (no SL2 yet) is fine because I use my pinky on the bottom of the camera, as you show, and my fingers don't even wrap around the grip.


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## mb66energy (Aug 22, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> mb66energy said:
> 
> 
> > For me it is much much easier to hold than the 600D. 40D or 5D are better and maybe comparable to the 80D.
> ...



Good to see independent confirmation of my observation!


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## mb66energy (Aug 22, 2017)

Just for the two or three (potential) buyers of SL2 / 200D around here 

Photonstophotos has published DR and noise related data on their website http://www.photonstophotos.net/ (first 4 links)

If you compare 200D versus 80D the full data acquisition chain (sensor / ADC / PCB / processor) shows a very similar behaviour and one might expect the same IQ from this entry level camera compared to the more mature 80D. 
I am glad to see that IQ is still paramount for Canon in one of their cheapest offers of interchangeable lens cameras.

Gives me more latitude for contralight situations which I like most.

And DPAF is a killer for everything where you have 2 sec time - it's great to see a comfortable, fast and very precise way to set the focus point where I want to be it (except close to the borders).


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## Maximilian (Aug 22, 2017)

mb66energy said:


> ...
> If you compare 200D versus 80D the full data acquisition chain (sensor / ADC / PCB / processor) shows a very similar behaviour and one might expect the same IQ from this entry level camera compared to the more mature 80D.
> I am glad to see that IQ is still paramount for Canon in one of their cheapest offers of interchangeable lens cameras.
> ...


And I am still shocked about the archaic AF they gave to it. 
Could have been mine, if they had improved AF just by a little bit 
(e.g. 9 pt. all cross, or old 7D or else) :'(

But thanks for that information.


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 22, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> mb66energy said:
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The old AF does hurt, but for the purpose of sitting in the glovebox (ok, center console) for handiness, it shouldn't be too bad. OTOH, maybe that means just keep my SL1. Which is probably the answer.


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## Maximilian (Aug 23, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> ...
> The old AF does hurt, but for the purpose of sitting in the glovebox (ok, center console) for handiness, it shouldn't be too bad. OTOH, maybe that means just keep my SL1. Which is probably the answer.


I take my 100D/SL1 quite often with me, when I want to travel light and when my > 1.000 € equipment is not ensured, e.g. on vacation. 
As I like to take pictures from my children as well as wildlife and so on a better AF would have been my #1 feature to improve. A better sensor is also nice but not enough for me to get the SL2/200D.
I can understand that Canon wanted to differentiate this body from the other xxxD and esp. the xxD bodies and I never expected this one to get the 77D AF, but just keeping this ages old AF is really annoying to me.

But good to see that they put in a really good sensor, at least.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 23, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> LonelyBoy said:
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Why does the AF not work for you? I have had most of the 1 series models, all of the 5 series models, and I find AF works fine. The DPAF, in particular is fast and accurate, and tracking works fine. Do you own one, or just read reviews from others who don't own one either?

I guess that I've spent most of my 60 years of photography with just one AF point, and did fine, I like my new 5D MK IV, but for 1/6th the price, the SL-2 is very good.


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## Maximilian (Aug 23, 2017)

Hi Mt Spokane!



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Why does the AF not work for you?


I am using my DSLRs 99% with OVF. Here the 10+ years 9 pt AF of the 100D/SL1 is simply not accurate enough (for me) and of course I am also a little bit spoiled by my 5D3. Of course I do not expect anything close to that in a xxxD/Rebel body. 
But as I've stated in other threads about the SL1/100D for me the AF system would have been #1 reason to upgrade, and I was quite willing to do so. 



> The DPAF, in particular is fast and accurate, and tracking works fine.


As I am not using LiveView most of the time DPAF is nice for you but not for me.



> Do you own one, or just read reviews from others who don't own one either?


Yes, I own a 100D/SL1 as I also own a 5D3. 
And no, I don't own a 200D/SL2. But I also don't _just read reviews from others who don't own one either_.
I know my brick and morter stroe in Nürnberg and I like to take hands on new stuff. The 200D AF didn't feel different or better within the time I could hold it in my hand. 
And as we came across here at CR you might have recognized that I am no troll and no Canon basher either. 
But it seems you like to push me into that corner. Please stop that, because I gave you no reason for that.

I am just upset that Canon is still implementing an AF system more than 10 years old in a todays camera.



> I guess that I've spent most of my 60 years of photography with just one AF point, and did fine


Please tell me what kind of consumer camera was availale 60 years ago with AF?
And you might also agree that a daguerreotype camera no longer is what someone calls "state of the art", don't you?



> I like my new 5D MK IV, but for 1/6th the price, the SL-2 is very good.


I am with you here that the 200D/SL2 is a good package, as my 100D was at the time of release, except for the AF system, that was old even 4 years ago. 
Here Canon made a decission that took me off the buyers list. That's it.
If the other features take more buyers on the list than like me off it, Canon made everything right. 
Even with an outdated AF system.


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