# So far so good, the Canon EOS R pleasantly surprised Jared



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 10, 2018)

> Apparently, the sky isn’t falling and Canon isn’t *******. The first decent hands-on preview (mini review) of the Canon EOS R has hit, and the camera looks to be an excellent first step for Canon and will make still shooters quiet happy.
> *From Jared:*
> This is a HANDS ON PREVIEW of the Canon EOS R, new RF lenses and lens adapters. This is NOT A REVIEW just yet, that will be coming in the future. Should you sell all your Canon gear and move to Nikon or Sony or do you stick it out?
> Here’s my take so far, this camera gets a lot right while still disappointing in some ways. But, I think it’s a very good start and will only lead to better future cameras. Now’s not the time to switch.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## docsmith (Sep 10, 2018)

I am seeing some consistency in the early impressions. The R handles really well, takes great pictures, all despite a few spec sheet issues. There is actually more "love" than Canon usually gets for their releases so far. 

I think we are looking at a real winner....


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## Shakey (Sep 10, 2018)

New to Canon Rumours. I am a Canon shooter for the most part. 5DsR is my tool of choice. I shoot for fun but I do take it seriously and like to produce the best images I can. The new EOS R has me intrigued. I thought everyone might enjoy Scott Kelby's take on the camera. 

https://scottkelby.com/straight-talk-qa-on-canons-eos-r-full-frame-mirrorless/


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## ahsanford (Sep 10, 2018)

I'm not typically a FKF guy, but this is a helpful first take. Less windup about specs, more about the shooting/handling/interface experience.

Worth 20 minutes if you have it.

- A


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## ethanz (Sep 10, 2018)

It seems like Jared is mellowing out a little. His other EOS R videos seemed positive.

I've heard from someone in the pro sports field who was somehow able to try it out at a couple events. He really like it and it adapted the 200-400 without problems. AF was fast. Obviously fps is not good for sports, but he liked it. He was impressed with the lack of noise compared to (the already impressive) 1dx2.


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## docsmith (Sep 10, 2018)

ethanz said:


> It seems like Jared is mellowing out a little.
> .



Maybe the cold? Just feeling under the weather. I almost didn't watch based on what I've seen before, but several of the "night of" reviews mentioned they were given production cameras, so I've been waiting for a bit more hands on take on the R. This is the first I've seen. Include some initial other impressions (Gordon Laing, TN/CN, even Kai seemed impressed), people seem to be enjoying exactly what Canon often gets right, ergonomics.


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## canonmike (Sep 10, 2018)

While Jared pointed out some shortcomings with the new EOS R camera, I thought his overall impressions of same were surprisingly good. I've always found him to be a Nikon biased photographer/reviewer, so this is pretty amazing, coming from him. I think we are all somewhat anxious, at this point, to see real world short and long term reviews when they finally start shipping the R bodies and lenses in a month or two. Bring them on.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 10, 2018)

I was surprised that it seemes to be as good as it is, very impressive for a entry level priced FF mirrorless. Canon seems to call it mid level, but as FF bodies go, its priced closer to what a 6D II started at. Will there be a lower end body? I doubt it.


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## NorskHest (Sep 10, 2018)

I hope canon offers a declicked version of lenses, i know they will declick them after your purchase at first, but hopefully they will offer them for sale at a later date, this would be wonderful for iris racks now that adjustments for iris can be smaller steps


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## ykn123 (Sep 10, 2018)

cool stuff on the R here as well :


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## tonidavid5 (Sep 10, 2018)

After all the spec sheet frenzy of the early hours, these new articles/vlogs are starting to show initial but very positive feedback of what should this really all be about ... capturing great pictures with our equipment.

Bryan at the Digital Picture has posted some first-hand real-life experience with the EOS R which should clear some of the concerns about battery life out of the official CIPA numbers:
Addressing Canon EOS R Battery Life


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## docsmith (Sep 10, 2018)

tonidavid5 said:


> After all the spec sheet frenzy of the early hours, these new articles/vlogs are starting to show initial but very positive feedback of what should this really all be about ... capturing great pictures with our equipment.
> 
> Bryan at the Digital Picture has posted some first-hand real-life experience with the EOS R which should clear some of the concerns about battery life out of the official CIPA numbers:
> Addressing Canon EOS R Battery Life


Also, seems very impressed with the 28-70 f/2....

mentioned in that article and a summary by Sean:
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=28512

Flood gates appear to be opening, which is great.....


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## robinlee (Sep 10, 2018)

I've always liked Jared real world review, he is probably one of the vloggers out there that talks about all aspects of handling of such camera. Other's just the typical bashing type of YouTubers.


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## Sharlin (Sep 10, 2018)

Shakey said:


> I thought everyone might enjoy Scott Kelby's take on the camera.
> 
> https://scottkelby.com/straight-talk-qa-on-canons-eos-r-full-frame-mirrorless/



"Slot shaming" – love it!


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## gmon750 (Sep 10, 2018)

I think the EOS-R is a good starting camera. I really think Canon did not want to jeopardize (yet) the sales of the dSLR cameras and I think it was a good decision. Mirrorless cameras are still in its infancy regardless of what the pro-mirrorless crowd says. 

I decided to hold off on purchasing a 5DM4 to complement my trusty 5DM3. I want to see how Canon answers the calls of 5D and 1D owners wanting a more "pro" level camera.

I think Canon's solution with their three EF adaptors are superior to what the folks at Sony and Nikon did for compatibility of older lenses. Their new R lenses are just stunning pieces of glass, and of course first-production lenses will always be pricey. 

It may be a tired sentence, but give me a mirrorless version of my 5D with same analog, pushbutton controls, joystick, and dual slots, then update everything else where necessary. I like the direction that Canon is going with the EOS-R.

Until then, I will continue to happily use my 5DM3. I couldn't care less that some random Internet user of x-Camera thinks that dSLR cameras are suddenly obsolete and no longer work. Photographs coming from any of these cameras are for the most part undistinguishable in the medium they are used for so give us a break. It's only important for people like you, and no one else.


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## bokehmon22 (Sep 10, 2018)

It seems like everyone saying the the EVF is really good. If they can add improve EyeAF with continuous focus on similiar level to a7iii with dual card slot and modern sensor, I would buy the beef up version EOS R.


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## bokehmon22 (Sep 10, 2018)

robinlee said:


> I've always liked Jared real world review, he is probably one of the vloggers out there that talks about all aspects of handling of such camera. Other's just the typical bashing type of YouTubers.


He get alot of hates but I find his reviews are fair. Not sure why the hate.


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## Jakdr (Sep 10, 2018)

I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions. And the resolution isn't better than on other models. It isn't cheaper. It's a bit lighter, yes. But with the newheavy lenses it doesn't matter anymore. I don't see any reason, why I would buy this body at the moment, and go mirrorless. I'll wait if they come around with a more pro like body, that really offers something new, that gives me a reason to buy a new camera, because it does something, that other body's can't do.


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## snappy604 (Sep 11, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions. And the resolution isn't better than on other models. It isn't cheaper. It's a bit lighter, yes. But with the newheavy lenses it doesn't matter anymore. I don't see any reason, why I would buy this body at the moment, and go mirrorless. I'll wait if they come around with a more pro like body, that really offers something new, that gives me a reason to buy a new camera, because it does something, that other body's can't do.



I agree they're short-comings, but they're not important to everyone. I'd prefer it to be 4k full, but video is only occasionally used by myself for example, so it wouldn't make or break my decision to buy. Other features are more important to me.. it's close, the real world FPS is probably the biggest question for me right now and how I use it (I rarely use servo tracking so it may not matter that it drops to 3fps for me).. I'm impressed with the low light performance.. I know sony sensors can do better, but I have a lot of canon mount glass


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## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions. And the resolution isn't better than on other models. It isn't cheaper. It's a bit lighter, yes. But with the newheavy lenses it doesn't matter anymore. I don't see any reason, why I would buy this body at the moment, and go mirrorless. I'll wait if they come around with a more pro like body, that really offers something new, that gives me a reason to buy a new camera, because it does something, that other body's can't do.




Your statement implies the point of FF mirrorless is to push spec barriers or to be small. Consider a different perspective.

Comparing to the 5D4...

If you don't shoot video:

Your RF lenses have a control ring that you can customize, and you can make adjustments in 1/8th stop increments now
All your EF lenses can be rear ND or CPL'd and they all get a control ring now as well
Your mirrorless 5D4 now has Eye AF
Your mirrorless 5D4 now has AF points all over the frame
Your mirrorless 5D4 will (someday) be able to adapt non-Canon glass
Your mirrorless 5D4 + adaptor ring now costs ~ $2500 (depending on which one you get)
Your mirrorless 5D4 now has exclusive access to an industry first zoom and (possibly) Canon's first comprehensive workhorse 50 prime.
Additionally, if you do shoot video:

Your mirrorless 5D4 now has a tilty-flippy
Your mirrorless 5D4 can now output 10 bit 4:2:2
Yes, some stuff is taken away from the 5D4 experience, but so is the price.

Stop comparing to A7. Start comparing to Canon SLRs. This thing will sell very, very well.

- A


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## takesome1 (Sep 11, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions. And the resolution isn't better than on other models. It isn't cheaper. It's a bit lighter, yes. But with the newheavy lenses it doesn't matter anymore. I don't see any reason, why I would buy this body at the moment, and go mirrorless. I'll wait if they come around with a more pro like body, that really offers something new, that gives me a reason to buy a new camera, because it does something, that other body's can't do.




I do not know why you would buy it either. It will not fit all your Sony / Nikon lenses.


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## Talys (Sep 11, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions. And the resolution isn't better than on other models. It isn't cheaper. It's a bit lighter, yes. But with the newheavy lenses it doesn't matter anymore. I don't see any reason, why I would buy this body at the moment, and go mirrorless. I'll wait if they come around with a more pro like body, that really offers something new, that gives me a reason to buy a new camera, because it does something, that other body's can't do.




On the video end, I just don't care. I won't ever use it. As a stills camera, I do appreciate that in certain situations, mirrorless cameras have some benefits over DSLR (and vice versa). Since they can share all of the same accessories and lenses, it's an easy buy at some point.

The things that sound great that I really appreciate are:
- the larger, more substantial size
- very good autofocus that "just works"
- battery life was excellent in real-world use - 40% used on a pair of LPE6 batteries after a full day of shooting is great
- no blackout

Oh, on the minor but major, mechanical shutter closes when you go to swap lenses. Why on earth didn't Sony do this... I absolutely hated a speck of dust getting on the sensor during a lens swap and then leaving a big blurry dot on the next 200 photos (to answer that, I believe the theory is that the shutter is quite delicate, while the sensor is not.. but whatever. I hate it).


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## Tangent (Sep 11, 2018)

Well, with these reviews from Jared, Scott, and others, we can forget about an EOS M camera sort of firesale.

And I agree with Jared's take on the imminent demise of the dslr. Not likely to see a 6D mk III now. And really, with an an up-market "R5" on the way, probably with higher megapixels, a 5D mkV or a 5DsR II both seem in jeopardy for the same reason.

Bad Canon, putting out a camera that looks like it might make me part with some money after all!


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## bdbender4 (Sep 11, 2018)

Not "hate" for this clown, but sadness that this sort of immature high-school-style celebrity has become an "opinion maker" for imaging. Lack of praise, or even interest, towards someone is not "hate". 

And then, following the devalued use of of the word, who gives a sh*t whether he "hates" the camera or not? What does that have to do with anything? Dude, do a useful job of helping those of us who haven't used it form an opinion, based on your informed experience. Leave the silly personality show outside the door.


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## dak723 (Sep 11, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions. And the resolution isn't better than on other models. It isn't cheaper. It's a bit lighter, yes. But with the newheavy lenses it doesn't matter anymore. I don't see any reason, why I would buy this body at the moment, and go mirrorless. I'll wait if they come around with a more pro like body, that really offers something new, that gives me a reason to buy a new camera, because it does something, that other body's can't do.



Some, like me, have gone or will go mirrorless because exposure WYSIWYG through the EVF. Also really love AF point touch and drag. Also, some like me don't have an FF camera. Others who already have an FF rig such as the 5D II or III or the 6D I may be in the market for a newer model. Yes, I agree that anyone with a top-level relatively new DSLR may have no reason to switch, but people who have bought a camera in the last 3 years or so are never the target market.


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## Cali Capture (Sep 11, 2018)

I think the Adapter/Filter mount will be the one thing that captures EOS mount users into the R mount the most. Truly brilliant and None of us here even thought of the possibility, Nikon didn't either. 11-24 f/4 owners, you know you saw the adjustable ND filter and drooled. I'm sure there will be graduated inserts soon also. ADJ Circular pol-Z's also. As someone who owns a lot of glass and was waiting for a direct mount 5D style body, Now I'm waiting for an EOS-R in 50 MP! I would still like a larger body, but the adapter phobia I had sure got softened!


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## stevelee (Sep 11, 2018)

Shakey said:


> I thought everyone might enjoy Scott Kelby's take on the camera.
> https://scottkelby.com/straight-talk-qa-on-canons-eos-r-full-frame-mirrorless/


I found this especially interesting:


> I crack up when people tell me “they switched to Mirrorless because they wanted a small, lightweight body” and then they buy a camera that costs five times as much and weighs 50% more than the SR2, and when you add a decent lens to their $3,000 body it virtually weighs the same as a big DSLR anyway.


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## vjlex (Sep 11, 2018)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I’m looking forward to Jared’s real world review in a couple months time. Hopefully, by then, we’ll have one in our hands. I’m super excited to get one and I’m sad Canon doesn’t like us enough to give us a camera to try out.


I gotta say, on the flipside, I'm glad Canon doesn't like you enough. I get the feeling if they did, this site would cease to exist as it us. 

I hear a lot of people talking about the drop-in filter adapter. But this only works for EF lenses right? Can't stick on an RF lens to benefit from this, right?


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## Talys (Sep 11, 2018)

shunsai said:


> I gotta say, on the flipside, I'm glad Canon doesn't like you enough. I get the feeling if they did, this site would cease to exist as it us.
> 
> I hear a lot of people talking about the drop-in filter adapter. But this only works for EF lenses right? Can't stick on an RF lens to benefit from this, right?



Yeah, they basically make clever use of the extra space. You can't attach a RF to the adapter because then there would be too much distance between the sensor and glass


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## Etienne (Sep 11, 2018)

I'd buy it for sure if I wasn't interested in video, but the video shortcomings hurt: big crop 4K, loads of rolling shutter, no IBIS, no real slo-mo, no zebras (that's odd, you'd think it would be easy, AND the histogram disappears during record). This camera does not emphasize video performance, it is primarily photo with video as an add-on, almost an afterthought. The flippy screen is awesome, and excellent viewfinder.


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## peterzuehlke (Sep 11, 2018)

Seems like a fair and balanced review. If you just shoot Canon it probably doesn't seem that negative. And some of those issues probably will be resolved with future firmware update. But the main reason I shoot mirrorless (Sony) alongside my 5d4 is silent shutter (the new canon can only do one shot at a time silent), IBIS (like stabilizing those unstabilized great Sigma lenses) and video features: AF, focus peaking, codec, crop factor in 4K etc. And a $3000 lens zoom lens I can't put on my old Canon DSLRs that is not IS, so I am thinking not the greatest low light, sports, wedding lens; more of a studio portrait lens, I'd rather use something faster than f/2 and a little longer than 70mm. Good a lot of people see a use for this camera, I certainly don't. I wanted to, to get rid of my Sony stuff and keep one set of lenses, but Canon has a long way to go.


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## vjlex (Sep 11, 2018)

Does anyone know if you can change the filename prefix, like we could with the 5D4? Since I shoot with multiple cameras, I like to change the prefix to distinguish their files from one another (ie. 5D4_0001.cr2/jpg). Small feature, but one that I would really miss if it's gone.


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## Talys (Sep 11, 2018)

Tangent said:


> Well, with these reviews from Jared, Scott, and others, we can forget about an EOS M camera sort of firesale.
> 
> And I agree with Jared's take on the imminent demise of the dslr. Not likely to see a 6D mk III now. And really, with an an up-market "R5" on the way, probably with higher megapixels, a 5D mkV or a 5DsR II both seem in jeopardy for the same reason.
> 
> Bad Canon, putting out a camera that looks like it might make me part with some money after all!



I disagree. M5, M6, and M50 are much, much cheaper, not to mention they mount much cheaper lenses. In my opinion, eventually, mirrorless apsc will come down to the price of what apsc dslr today, where I FF will remain pricey. 

In addition, price aside, EOS M does something R never will... they're fantastic small cameras!! I know that with my going on about how I dislike A7 ergonomics and how pleased I am that R usnt diminutive, I might seem like the anti small camera guy, but quite the opposite. I love small cameras as long as the rest of the system is balanced to it, particularly the lenses. I think apsc will be around for a long time.


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## ScottO (Sep 11, 2018)

shunsai said:


> Does anyone know if you can change the filename prefix, like we could with the 5D4? Since I shoot with multiple cameras, I like to change the prefix to distinguish their files from one another (ie. 5D4_0001.cr2/jpg). Small feature, but one that I would really miss if it's gone.



I went back and watched Jared‘s video at the 2:42 mark he is showing the menus and it does show a file name option so I would assume yes you can. Just to be sure you could email Brian at the digital picture and verify it with him.


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## snappy604 (Sep 11, 2018)

Interesting.. just saw northrup's blog.. the single card failed on the production body.. normally gloss them as more fluff pieces but that caught my eye since so many mentioned single card being a risk


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## scrup (Sep 11, 2018)

Damn no firesale. Will need to wait longer now.


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## David Littleboy (Sep 11, 2018)

scrup said:


> Damn no firesale. Will need to wait longer now.



Unless you are interested in a 6DII.

Canon's getting close. The glasses-friendly viewfinder is super-kewl. There hasn't been a really glasses friendly viewfinder since the Nikon F100 (or was it 100F). Whatever...

Now all Canon needs to do is persuade Cosina to make RF versions of the 40/1.2 and 10/12/15 lenses, and I'm in.


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## Kit. (Sep 11, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment.


So, you have registered here just to tell us that you are not interested?

Or are you asking a question?


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## Koala (Sep 11, 2018)

Does anyone know how the camera will work with 3th party EF lenses? Will we get all the features like it's Canon's glass? Currently 2 of my main lenses are Tamron.


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## Antono Refa (Sep 11, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions. And the resolution isn't better than on other models. It isn't cheaper. It's a bit lighter, yes. But with the new heavy lenses it doesn't matter anymore. I don't see any reason, why I would buy this body at the moment, and go mirrorless. I'll wait if they come around with a more pro like body, that really offers something new, that gives me a reason to buy a new camera, because it does something, that other body's can't do.



If it doesn't suit you, don't buy it, but do realize some people don't care about those features.

E.g. in the rare occasion I do shoot video, FHD @24fps serves me just fine.


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 11, 2018)

As I expected, the EOS R is overall a nice camera if using it in real life, if you don't need latest 4K video features. I personally miss only the joystick and I am not so sure about this new slide bar, seems like Canon wanted something fancy for MacBook users.

That said, looking at Jared's 70s hair style, I ask myself: if the Robert Plant hair style never dies, will the (D)SLR really die? Not sure.


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 11, 2018)

gmon750 said:


> I decided to hold off on purchasing a 5DM4 to complement my trusty 5DM3. I want to see how Canon answers the calls of 5D and 1D owners wanting a more "pro" level camera.


Exactly what I decided to do. Shooting mostly stills, my 5D3 still serves me well, and it looks like it'll keen to survive it's official lifetime end with roughly 150.000 actuations now. Still no signs of fatigue.

For me, there is one fundamental question left open since I shoot a lot of wildlife, mostly birding: is a ML with EVF really the better option? Everybody doing wildlife knows those hours sitting in a hide, peering frequently through the viewfinder and waiting for something to happen. With an OVF you don't drain the battery doing that, but with an EVF you do. So, maybe, shooting wildlife with a ML camera means carrying substantially more batteries in the package.


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## Del Paso (Sep 11, 2018)

bdbender4 said:


> Not "hate" for this clown, but sadness that this sort of immature high-school-style celebrity has become an "opinion maker" for imaging. Lack of praise, or even interest, towards someone is not "hate".
> 
> And then, following the devalued use of of the word, who gives a sh*t whether he "hates" the camera or not? What does that have to do with anything? Dude, do a useful job of helping those of us who haven't used it form an opinion, based on your informed experience. Leave the silly personality show outside the door.


I can't help wondering what the wonderful opinion-making Kardashians think of this camera...
PS: I'll place an order, no matter what youtubers preach!


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 11, 2018)

bdbender4 said:


> Not "hate" for this clown, but sadness that this sort of immature high-school-style celebrity has become an "opinion maker" for imaging. Lack of praise, or even interest, towards someone is not "hate".



At least they stopped to unbox new gear and sniff it - or was that another clown with about the same hair style? Some years ago when I stumbled in one of those ones on Youtube I got the eery feeling that such videos may be a real factor in future climate change, because they boost the CO2 emissions of fast growing server farms required for hosting more and more of this (beep).

Well, this is the harvest of what Teletubbies implanted as seed in the brains of this generation, isn't it?


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## goldenhusky (Sep 11, 2018)

I have learned with almost all reviewers one need to read between the lines. Sometimes they leave a very small clue about downsides. I guess that is to make themselves less prone to the hate comments by fan boys and also not to be looked at like they are bashing something.


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 11, 2018)

I can't believe this guy also complained about the M.Fn touchbar getting accidentally operated *AND* Canon's solution to that problem.  Just like this brilliant guy:


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## Viggo (Sep 11, 2018)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> I can't believe this guy also complained about the M.Fn touchbar getting accidentally operated *AND* Canon's solution to that problem.  Just like this brilliant guy:


Lol, yeah, I’m using BBF, and can’t really see that my thumb is 2 inches wide, so probably not an issue


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## deletemyaccount (Sep 11, 2018)

With all due respect to Canon's first FF mirrorless, this one is missing a few key features but I believe in typical fashion, it will sell VERY well. As to Polin's assessment, I hold little regard. His personaity and ego rub me the wrong way and I don't hold him as any authority. He's not nearly as good as he thinks he is.


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## aa_angus (Sep 11, 2018)

Jared Polin is a gimp.


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## aa_angus (Sep 11, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> As I expected, the EOS R is overall a nice camera if using it in real life, if you don't need latest 4K video features. I personally miss only the joystick and I am not so sure about this new slide bar, seems like Canon wanted something fancy for MacBook users.



The rear LCD is the joystick replacement. It’s faster and easier to select AF points through the viewfinder. Stop complaining about the joystick ommision. It’s there. If you have a thumb, you can easily and quickly change the AF point.


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## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

Koala said:


> Does anyone know how the camera will work with 3th party EF lenses? Will we get all the features like it's Canon's glass? Currently 2 of my main lenses are Tamron.




It will probably work as well as those lenses do in Liveview on a DPAF-carrying SLR.

- A


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## rosw (Sep 11, 2018)

Koala said:


> Does anyone know how the camera will work with 3th party EF lenses? Will we get all the features like it's Canon's glass? Currently 2 of my main lenses are Tamron.



hi, 

currently on 6D MK 1, looking to upgrade to EOS R as well, but i have 3 third party lens and this issue has been bothering me .....

still waiting for a official video , with actual usage of third party lens on EOS R,
if anyone has it/ seen it, kindly share

thanks!


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## Viggo (Sep 11, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> The rear LCD is the joystick replacement. It’s faster and easier to select AF points through the viewfinder. Stop complaining about the joystick ommision. It’s there. If you have a thumb, you can easily and quickly change the AF point.



I’m not too sure that it works with gloves in the winter, and what about underwater use? I’m still buying, but I also wish it had a small wheel around the navigation buttons and a joystick. And I’m wondering, since my nose often touches the screen, does that mean I can only shoot with AF just there it is?


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## aa_angus (Sep 11, 2018)

Viggo said:


> I’m not too sure that it works with gloves in the winter, and what about underwater use? I’m still buying, but I also wish it had a small wheel around the navigation buttons and a joystick. And I’m wondering, since my nose often touches the screen, does that mean I can only shoot with AF just there it is?




Gloves? Underwater? It’s a camera intended for use by humans. It allows you to take photographs. What did you think it was? Maybe I’m in the minority, but I generally shoot above sea level. 

Also no, your thumb will select the AF point. Not your nose. Just like the joystick, only much quicker.


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## Quarkcharmed (Sep 11, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Gloves? Underwater? It’s a camera intended for use by humans. It allows you to take photographs. What did you think it was? Maybe I’m in the minority, but I generally shoot above sea level.



I dunno. In my turn, I'm concerned if the camera works in the open space. I don't need it now, but it's good to have, you know. So it should work when I'm in a space suit. And it should do [email protected] in the space or I switch to Sony.


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## Viggo (Sep 11, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Gloves? Underwater? It’s a camera intended for use by humans. It allows you to take photographs. What did you think it was? Maybe I’m in the minority, but I generally shoot above sea level.
> 
> Also no, your thumb will select the AF point. Not your nose. Just like the joystick, only much quicker.



You know, some of us doesn’t live in California... 7-8 months of winter means gloves is mandatory very often...


----------



## Kit. (Sep 11, 2018)

Viggo said:


> You know, some of us doesn’t live in California...


There actually was Winter Olympics once in Squaw Valley.


----------



## aa_angus (Sep 11, 2018)

Viggo said:


> You know, some of us doesn’t live in California... 7-8 months of winter means gloves is mandatory very often...



Then you can use the physical multidirectional button. For the rest of us, thumb drag AF will be a lot of fun and very effective.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Gloves? Underwater? It’s a camera intended for use by humans. It allows you to take photographs. What did you think it was? Maybe I’m in the minority, but I generally shoot above sea level.
> 
> Also no, your thumb will select the AF point. Not your nose. Just like the joystick, only much quicker.




This is a key point -- when the number of AF points explodes like this, discrete joystick moves (e.g. left left left left up up) become quite inefficient. This is an area where Canon has to either have a very dumbed down AF grid for course joystick changes vs. the fidelity/sensitivity/speed the drag AF allows. An analogy to using joysticks vs. mice in PC gaming when FPS games got popular 20-25 years ago immediately comes to mind here.

But I fully appreciate that some folks need something that works with gloves, works underwater, etc. so yes, I hold out that Canon might put a thumbwheel and joystick 2.0 (hopefully one with some sensitivity to it) in a bigger/higher end 5-series FF mirrorless someday.

- A


----------



## Famateur (Sep 11, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> This is a key point -- when the number of AF points explodes like this, discrete joystick moves (e.g. left left left left up up) become quite inefficient. This is an area where Canon has to either have a very dumbed down AF grid for course joystick changes vs. the fidelity/sensitivity/speed the drag AF allows. An analogy to using joysticks vs. mice in PC gaming when FPS games got popular 20-25 years ago immediately comes to mind here.
> 
> But I fully appreciate that some folks need something that works with gloves, works underwater, etc. so yes, I hold out that Canon might put a thumbwheel and joystick 2.0 (hopefully one with some sensitivity to it) in a bigger/higher end 5-series FF mirrorless someday.
> 
> - A



True.

Besides, you can still use the D-Pad to do up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, Select, Start for unlimited battery life -- CIPA standards be damned!


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2018)

FWIW, current Canon touchscreens work fine with reasonably thin cotton gloves, especially if you increase the sensitivity. And then there are gloves with thin metal wire woven into the fingertips specifically for use with touchscreens.


----------



## Viggo (Sep 11, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> FWIW, current Canon touchscreens work fine with reasonably thin cotton gloves, especially if you increase the sensitivity. And then there are gloves with thin metal wire woven into the fingertips specifically for use with touchscreens.


I was wondering that, which type of touchscreen it is, only sensitive to fingers, or touch from anything...


----------



## ethanz (Sep 11, 2018)

Famateur said:


> True.
> 
> Besides, you can still use the D-Pad to do up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, Select, Start for unlimited battery life -- CIPA standards be damned!



Need to find other codes at http://www.cheatcc.com/


----------



## Uglen (Sep 11, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Your statement implies the point of FF mirrorless is to push spec barriers or to be small. Consider a different perspective.
> 
> Comparing to the 5D4...
> 
> ...


Solid points!


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2018)

Viggo said:


> I was wondering that, which type of touchscreen it is, only sensitive to fingers, or touch from anything...



Like practically all touchscreens these days, Canon's are multitouch capacitive screens. They are sensitive to conductive things such as fingers brought close enough to the screen surface. Gloves are typically not conductive and depending on thickness and screen sensitivity may or may not prevent a finger from getting close enough.


----------



## Viggo (Sep 11, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> Like practically all touchscreens these days, Canon's are multitouch capacitive screens. They are sensitive to conductive things such as fingers brought close enough to the screen surface. Gloves are typically not conductive and depending on thickness and screen sensitivity may or may not prevent a finger from getting close enough.



Are there any thin gloves, like the awesome old Lowepro gloves, that can work that anyone know of? I have some, but they are fabric and SUPERslippery, so using them is begging for the camera to be dropped, lol.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

Uglen said:


> Solid points!




It's just that Canon is somewhat shrewdly taking the spec-sheet lovers (no IBIS, single card, cropped 4k) and 'mirrorless is all about being small' people and ing all over their dreams with a different take: mirrorless can do more than your SLR in specific ways.

As predicted by yours truly (and a lot of others here) Canon wants this first offering to be an attractive second/companion body to your Canon SLR far more than a tool to win new users or 'stick it to Sony'. This product will make a ton of money as a result. Canon SLR users are Canon's easiest sale for the first few years.

In complete fairness, I didn't think Canon would walk this middle path between 'keep it small' and 'keep it seamless' (with full EF mount). Canon has plotted a very interesting and clever path forward here. Room to be smaller and room to be bigger.

- A


----------



## amorse (Sep 11, 2018)

FYI it looks like Fro (and others) are getting subtly accused of going easy on the Canon EOS R because Canon flew a lot of youtube reviewers out to Hawaii to test the body. Fro had a podcast on it last night I think addressing the suggestion. The argument has been "maybe if Nikon put out more for the reviewers they wouldn't of been so hard on the Z7 and Z6". 

God forbid someone say something nice about a Canon camera. If you want to have some fun, search EOS R on youtube and count how many icons have someone doing a facepalm in it. The frothing hype around new mirrorless cameras is getting a bit silly. Well, "getting" may be a bit of an overstatement.


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 11, 2018)

amorse said:


> God forbid someone say something nice about a Canon camera. If you want to have some fun, search EOS R on youtube and count how many icons have someone doing a facepalm in it. The frothing hype around new mirrorless cameras is getting a bit silly. Well, "getting" may be a bit of an overstatement.



Everything is getting silly these days and internet is catalyzing it.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

amorse said:


> FYI it looks like Fro (and others) are getting subtly accused of going easy on the Canon EOS R because Canon flew a lot of youtube reviewers out to Hawaii to test the body. Fro had a podcast on it last night I think addressing the suggestion. The argument has been "maybe if Nikon put out more for the reviewers they wouldn't of been so hard on the Z7 and Z6".
> 
> God forbid someone say something nice about a Canon camera. If you want to have some fun, search EOS R on youtube and count how many icons have someone doing a facepalm in it. The frothing hype around new mirrorless cameras is getting a bit silly. Well, "getting" may be a bit of an overstatement.




Not surprised those digs have surfaced.

But they largely shelled EOS R on day one based on what it didn't have, but most who used it seemed to really like what it did have that typically doesn't top the spec lists:

Peppy VF and AF performance
No (or far less than expected?) VF blackout
Thoughtful ergonomics and a grip that does not ruin your hand
Two far sexier than anticipated lenses for such a product's first offering
Clever control ring functionality
Adapters with useful stuff in there: filters, control rings for EF lenses, etc.
A very nice shutter close during lens changeout
In short, you hate the specs until you realize so many other things are really solid in this camera. Call me crazy, Canon will get throttled for specs/performance in reviews, but each reviewer will beg for 3-5 features of the EOS R to be put into the next Nikon Z or Sony A7.

- A


----------



## rjbray01 (Sep 11, 2018)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I thought this was an 
excellent and professional review

- thanks


----------



## Talys (Sep 11, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Not surprised those digs have surfaced.
> 
> In short, you hate the specs until you realize so many other things are really solid in this camera. Call me crazy, Canon will get throttled for specs/performance in reviews, but each reviewer will beg for 3-5 features of the EOS R to be put into the next Nikon Z or Sony A7.
> 
> - A



Exactly. I'd say that the Sony A7R3 is the perfect camera for me, except that it is uncomfortable without a grip, the VF blac'kout is pretty annoying, and the AF speed is worse than a $500, five year old DSLR in a lot of cases, I'm not really crazy about the OOC skintones, and changing exposure modes is inexplicably laggy. I think this will be "another Canon" in the grand scheme of things. Like a Lexus, there's just a lot to love that doesn't make headlines or spec sheets, but makes it very usable package and something you really miss when you use an alternative. As opposed to a Chrysler -- princely on paper, but just falls short when you own one.

Anyways, on specs... if you can't take photos you're happy with using a 5D4 class of camera, the problem is most definitely behind the viewfinder.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

Talys said:


> Exactly. I'd say that the Sony A7R3 is the perfect camera for me




And for some reason, no one got bent out of shape that the sensor was somewhat recycled from the A7R2 like some are now with the 5D4 sensor being 'old' to some. 

- A


----------



## Talys (Sep 11, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> And for some reason, no one got bent out of shape that the sensor was somewhat recycled from the A7R2 like some are now with the 5D4 sensor being 'old' to some.
> 
> - A



heh, yeah  At the end of the day, I think it's just the spec warriors, who liked the A7R2 sensor anyways (40+ megapixel with more DR than competitors), and who have always disliked Canon sensors, which make you choose between 5D4 and 5DSR, neither of which has as much DR as A7R2. There are also obsessed with scoring, and the subjective qualities that make Canon cameras a joy to use (or that make some competitors sometimes painful to use) don't score as well as blah blah blah stops of DR and blah blah blah micropixels of sharpness.

Way to quote it, btw, cutting out, "except... " LOL. Any camera is perfect for me, except for the things that make them not...


----------



## Del Paso (Sep 11, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Jared Polin is a gimp.


Agree with you!
There are far too many self-declared experts boring us with their "irrefutable" opinion.
Like South Park Eric Cartman's protagonists, I don't "respect their authoritah"...


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 11, 2018)

Jared is a bit of a goof but it seems to be working for him. He got comped a trip to Hawaii to photograph swimsuit models with the new R. If I want to demo the R and EF-R lenses I have to spend three hours driving myself out to Long Island in a hurricane on Friday. I'd wear that fro for a comped trip to Hawaii. No way I'm doing the Long Island trip.

The Hawaii perk may have colored his review a bit but it was easily the most comprehensive I've seen. If you watch the entire review its full of lots of information I haven't seen discussed anywhere else. I'm not ready to buy one but the R seems to be a better camera than I would have expected a month or two ago.


----------



## rjbray01 (Sep 11, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> This is a key point -- when the number of AF points explodes like this, discrete joystick moves (e.g. left left left left up up) become quite inefficient. This is an area where Canon has to either have a very dumbed down AF grid for course joystick changes vs. the fidelity/sensitivity/speed the drag AF allows. An analogy to using joysticks vs. mice in PC gaming when FPS games got popular 20-25 years ago immediately comes to mind here.
> 
> But I fully appreciate that some folks need something that works with gloves, works underwater, etc. so yes, I hold out that Canon might put a thumbwheel and joystick 2.0 (hopefully one with some sensitivity to it) in a bigger/higher end 5-series FF mirrorless someday.
> 
> - A



I think it should be possible to design a joystick with some sort of spring loading so that you push against the spring a little bit to move the AF point slowly and move it more to move it more quickly ... With a little practice it should be possible to reach any point fairly quickly ... Just a thought


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

rjbray01 said:


> I think it should be possible to design a joystick with some sort of spring loading so that you push against the spring a little bit to move the AF point slowly and move it more to move it more quickly ... With a little practice it should be possible to reach any point fairly quickly ... Just a thought




Dialing in sensitivity for that is tantamount to dialing in a very tiny analog joystick, or making a spherical shower faucet (hot/cold and pressure on one hemispherical interface) with a very very tiny stem coming off of it to make fine adjustments.

Doable? Yes.

Doable to a sensitivity level we all want? Yes (with tuning of sensitivity settings in the menu, I suppose).

_Ideal for this new unprecedented level of AF fidelity?_ Debatable.

I love my 5D3 joystick, but it simply has less to do and feel/speed can be much more coarse and simple. I think the EOS R's plurality of AF points needs to be greatly simplified to make a simple joystick D-Pad work efficiently, or we're in an age when pointing tech needs to fundamentally improve. Drag AF would appear to be the right move here.

- A


----------



## MayaTlab (Sep 11, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> And for some reason, no one got bent out of shape that the sensor was somewhat recycled from the A7R2 like some are now with the 5D4 sensor being 'old' to some.
> 
> - A


 
Thing is, the A7RIII's sensor is quite different from the A7RII. 

In a short development time Sony has managed to slash the readout speed by half, while improving DR. That's remarkable. 

It now reads for 14bits in the same amount of time it took the A7RII's sensor to read for 12bits, and it's twice faster in 12bits.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 11, 2018)

In fairness, although it doesn't seem like Canon has made much progress with readout speeds, the R does LOG 4K UHD 4:2:2 10-bit over HDMI as well as internal log 4K ALL-I 8 bit. My 1DX mark II can't do either. I'm guessing those are much more computationally intensive than MJPEG. Canon being Canon we weren't going to get full width 60p 4K and a modern codec in one move. Personally I'd still prefer the higher frame rates but for tripod work without a lot of quick pans the video quality should be really nice.


----------



## Tremotino (Sep 11, 2018)

This is the perfect camera for my use.

I really start liking the eos R camera, it's exactly what I need. Who cares about video? 4k? What are they complaining? Get a RED or something. I like to take pictures. And this camera is at least as good as 5dmk4 for a better price. So happy not to have updated to mark4. Maybe the pro R is even better? Who knows?

I think canon put it right, ESPECIALLY with the lense system. The 28-70 f2 will be my favourite 
It's a heavy punch in the womb for all the sony switchers: only 2mm flange distance left to build an adapter for their A whatever cameras. Obviously they want to use the RF lenses, because they always need the best, so I'm quite amused.


----------



## amorse (Sep 11, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Not surprised those digs have surfaced.
> 
> But they largely shelled EOS R on day one based on what it didn't have, but most who used it seemed to really like what it did have that typically doesn't top the spec lists:
> 
> ...


Let's not forget f/11 focusing! Using a 2x tele on a 100-400 II with AF seems like a pretty beneficial option to me, despite the potential IQ loss.


----------



## ahsanford (Sep 11, 2018)

amorse said:


> Let's not forget f/11 focusing! Using a 2x tele on a 100-400 II with AF seems like a pretty beneficial option to me, despite the potential IQ loss.




Yeah, then there are the cool things they _might_ do someday that EF likely never could.

For instance, an RF 150-600 f/5.6-8 IS STM could now happen. That would only require a 75mm (more likely 77mm) front element, be delightfully packable in a more standard camera bag and possibly come in around $1000.

- A


----------



## Yasko (Sep 12, 2018)

bdbender4 said:


> Not "hate" for this clown, but sadness that this sort of immature high-school-style celebrity has become an "opinion maker" for imaging. Lack of praise, or even interest, towards someone is not "hate".
> 
> And then, following the devalued use of of the word, who gives a sh*t whether he "hates" the camera or not? What does that have to do with anything? Dude, do a useful job of helping those of us who haven't used it form an opinion, based on your informed experience. Leave the silly personality show outside the door.



Personal aversion is one thing, pimp the video a bit for entertainment another. If you don‘t like his style (in some videos he exaggerates in my opinion, too) there are plenty other reviewers out there . Of you want pure seriousness, watch Kai... 
But I huess I just stated the obvious we already knew..., just my two cents.
I liked the video for illustration purposes.


----------



## FTb-n (Sep 12, 2018)

The EOS R is getting slammed for having only one card slot and Canon's response is that it isn't a "pro" camera. Some reviewers rate it somewhere between the 6D and 5D4. The price puts it between the 6D and 5D4 as well. It lacks IBIS, but has over 5,000 focus points -- OVER 5,000! Eye focus is "almost" as good as Sony's A9. And Canon releases a bunch of new, seemingly incredible, RF lenses. But, there must be a pro mirrorless in the works.

So what does Canon's the "pro" mirrorless body look like?

Is there an 5R and/or 1Rx in the works? Does this signal an end to the 5D and 1Dx line? I wonder how sales of the 5D4 and 1Dx will affect the announcement of the pro R body. If the next R body exceeds the features and performance of either of these "pro" DSLRs, it will surely put a dent in their sales. Will there be two "pro R" bodies or just one? Canon likes to plan the next flagship body just in time for the Olympics, so will the 1Rx be debuted in time for the 2020 Summer games?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 12, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Dialing in sensitivity for that is tantamount to dialing in a very tiny analog joystick, or making a spherical shower faucet (hot/cold and pressure on one hemispherical interface) with a very very tiny stem coming off of it to make fine adjustments.
> 
> Doable? Yes.
> 
> ...



I loved my 5d4s' joysticks very much. Then I experimented for a few months with an M5 I bought. Didn't like the lag of that camera, but I love, love, loved the use of the screen for focus point selection. That was more than a year ago, and to this day, whenever I'm doinking around with those joysticks (constantly), I think of that little M5. 

Can't wait for a fast FPS version of the R, then I'm in too.


----------



## kaptainkatsu (Sep 12, 2018)

FTb-n said:


> The EOS R is getting slammed for having only one card slot and Canon's response is that it isn't a "pro" camera. Some reviewers rate it somewhere between the 6D and 5D4. The price puts it between the 6D and 5D4 as well. It lacks IBIS, but has over 5,000 focus points -- OVER 5,000! Eye focus is "almost" as good as Sony's A9. And Canon releases a bunch of new, seemingly incredible, RF lenses. But, there must be a pro mirrorless in the works.
> 
> So what does Canon's the "pro" mirrorless body look like?
> 
> Is there an 5R and/or 1Rx in the works? Does this signal an end to the 5D and 1Dx line? I wonder how sales of the 5D4 and 1Dx will affect the announcement of the pro R body. If the next R body exceeds the features and performance of either of these "pro" DSLRs, it will surely put a dent in their sales. Will there be two "pro R" bodies or just one? Canon likes to plan the next flagship body just in time for the Olympics, so will the 1Rx be debuted in time for the 2020 Summer games?


I doubt there will be a 1R for at least a few years. I could possibly see the 5DV become a 5R but I’ve got my money that there will be a mirrored 1DX3 in 2020. I’ve got a 1DX2 and went paired with a 70-200 2.8 or other big whites, It has very good balance and feel. Don’t think canon would want to upset pro sports photographers. I could see a 1R come out a few years later as an alternative but I would bet they would want to mature the native lens lineup before retiring the tried and true full size 1D mirror body.


----------



## fullstop (Sep 12, 2018)

FTb-n said:


> Eye focus is "almost" as good as Sony's A9.



lol. half-assed implementation in EOS R: limited to "one-Shot AF".

it remains to be seen whether or not Canon is able and willing to get it working in Servo-AF with a firmware update. and how well it will work and by when. 

lots of IFs. nowhere near Sony A9 or A7 III yet. eye tracking in continuos AF at 10fps vs. EOS R trying to do any sort of subject tracking at 3 fps. 

EOS R is a start, but not more.


----------



## fullstop (Sep 12, 2018)

kaptainkatsu said:


> Don’t think canon would want to upset pro sports photographers



why would a fully capable mirrorfree sports camera "upset" sports photographers??

even or especially if it were launched today?

even or especially if it were superior to the best "legacy" mirrorslappers?

weird thinking. but possibly it really does reflect backwards-oriented octogenarian Canon board room's thinking.

luckily Sony, Fuji and - hopefully - Panasonic are different.


----------



## fullstop (Sep 12, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> For instance, an RF 150-600 f/5.6-8 IS STM could now happen. That would only require a 75mm (more likely 77mm) front element, be delightfully packable in a more standard camera bag and possibly come in around $1000.



oh my. not interested in 600 f/8 glass. will prefer 100-400 II ... plus 1.4x TC ... but only when absolutely needed. 

the world is not such a bright place. 

also: Canon will never sell a 600mm FF lens for a grand. even if it were only f/22.


----------



## vjlex (Sep 12, 2018)

amorse said:


> FYI it looks like Fro (and others) are getting subtly accused of going easy on the Canon EOS R because Canon flew a lot of youtube reviewers out to Hawaii to test the body. Fro had a podcast on it last night I think addressing the suggestion. The argument has been "maybe if Nikon put out more for the reviewers they wouldn't of been so hard on the Z7 and Z6".
> 
> God forbid someone say something nice about a Canon camera. If you want to have some fun, search EOS R on youtube and count how many icons have someone doing a facepalm in it. The frothing hype around new mirrorless cameras is getting a bit silly. Well, "getting" may be a bit of an overstatement.


In all honesty, I do wonder about the level of impartiality a reviewer that has been treated at Canon's expense can have. Personally, I found his video pretty fair and honest. But I have no problem with the people who lay into Canon, hands-on experience or not, for not including certain things that have at this point (and pricepoint) become an industry standard. I'm more inclined to think someone is in Canon's pocket if they offer effusive praise without any (or obviously softened) criticism. I saw one reviewer saying basically 'you have no right to criticize this camera that you've never touched' and I don't agree with that. That's exactly what spec sheets are for- to give us factual information about the camera in data form. Yes, there are intangibles such as ergonomics and UX that may make us more flexible in what we accept, but they don't necessarily negate or absolve the specs from obvious omissions.


----------



## aa_angus (Sep 12, 2018)

shunsai said:


> In all honesty, I do wonder about the level of impartiality a reviewer that has been treated at Canon's expense can have. Personally, I found his video pretty fair and honest. But I have no problem with the people who lay into Canon, hands-on experience or not, for not including certain things that have at this point (and pricepoint) become an industry standard. I'm more inclined to think someone is in Canon's pocket if they offer effusive praise without any (or obviously softened) criticism. I saw one reviewer saying basically 'you have no right to criticize this camera that you've never touched' and I don't agree with that. That's exactly what spec sheets are for- to give us factual information about the camera in data form. Yes, there are intangibles such as ergonomics and UX that may make us more flexible in what we accept, but they don't necessarily negate or absolve the specs from obvious omissions.




Why are you here if your Sony is so good?


----------



## vjlex (Sep 12, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Why are you here if your Sony is so good?


Not sure if you're replying to the correct post. If you are though, please read my "spec sheet" below. ↓↓↓


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## gmrza (Sep 12, 2018)

What I would still like to understand is how Canon is dealing with the fact that the shorter flange distance is resulting in the light hitting the sensor from a more oblique angle. Canon's sensors have traditionally not dealt with this very well. I wonder if Canon has improved the way its sensors handle light coming in from an extreme angle, or whether they are just fudging things and "fixing" the issue digitally.


----------



## Memirsbrunnr (Sep 12, 2018)

ykn123 said:


> cool stuff on the R here as well :


too much silly skydiving too little technical info about the camera in my personal view :-/


----------



## Yasko (Sep 12, 2018)

fullstop said:


> lol. half-assed implementation in EOS R: limited to "one-Shot AF".
> 
> it remains to be seen whether or not Canon is able and willing to get it working in Servo-AF with a firmware update. and how well it will work and by when.
> 
> ...



Does a Sony has a swivel screen? Does it have Canon Ergonomics or works flawlessly with Canon lenses that are much more affordable and where the best are at least on the same level as Sonys expensive offerings? Does it have Dual pixel AF for video?
Does it have 10 bit 4:2:2 flat profile internal and external recording?
Is it reliable to a point where you would take the camera out and use it in the rain? No, e.g. a point that is still really ridiculous if you asked me. A nice-weather camera or one for indoor events.

People tend to rant about what Canon doesnt have, like that crop in 4K (EF-S 10-18 as a work around at least) and there is a point, the EOS R doesnt have it all, and those who expeted something like that are probably a bit foolish.

But the EOS R is definitely more than just a start...
I expet it to become one of the best selling camera for YTers and also be a best seller or stills, no matter how many card slots. Btw: I am also in the camp of those who think that a 2k+ camera should have 2 card slots. It‘s not a „pro-feature“ but a low-cost feature that saves the day in case of a card fail.


----------



## Talys (Sep 12, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Dialing in sensitivity for that is tantamount to dialing in a very tiny analog joystick, or making a spherical shower faucet (hot/cold and pressure on one hemispherical interface) with a very very tiny stem coming off of it to make fine adjustments.
> 
> Doable? Yes.
> 
> ...



Call me crazy, but I don't understand the debate. Just Joystick AND touch VF for the best of both worlds. Joystick to give you discrete bumps that should be the size of an AF rectangle (perhaps with a menu option to make that half AF rectangle), and touch VF for adjustable accuracy/acceleration like you would with a notebook touchpad. The 5D3 and 5D4, and to Sony's credit, the A7R3 all have great joysticks. Don't mess with the way the joystick works -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


----------



## Talys (Sep 12, 2018)

Yasko said:


> Does a Sony has a swivel screen? Does it have Canon Ergonomics or works flawlessly with Canon lenses that are much more affordable and where the best are at least on the same level as Sonys expensive offerings? Does it have Dual pixel AF for video?
> Does it have 10 bit 4:2:2 flat profile internal and external recording?
> Is it reliable to a point where you would take the camera out and use it in the rain? No, e.g. a point that is still really ridiculous if you asked me. A nice-weather camera or one for indoor events.
> 
> ...



EOS R has a two HUGE things that Sony A7 doesn't: DPAF and a shutter that freaking closes when you take the lens off so that dust doesn't go on the sensor. I'm actually not sure which is a bigger plus, because I had so many times when I actually had to take off the lens on the A7R3 and blow on the sensor when I was out in the middle of nature that it was stupid.

Puting aside minor irritating things that really impact my enjoyability, the tech features race becomes DPAF vs IBIS. There's no camera where you can have booth, so you gotta pick. To me, AF that "just works" is more important, especially since I don't shoot video, most of my lenses where I need IS have ILIS, and IBIS or not, it's not like I can shoot much slower than 1/2000 when shooting BIF anyways.

In my opinion, incidentally, I think that Canon will implement IBIS before Sony/Nikon get AF that's competitive with DPAF.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Sep 12, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> The rear LCD is the joystick replacement. It’s faster and easier to select AF points through the viewfinder. Stop complaining about the joystick ommision. It’s there. If you have a thumb, you can easily and quickly change the AF point.



Thank you, Mr. Teacher. You mean this new tiny touchscreen, right? I speak about using the EVF, not working with the big LCD screen, which seems to show an annoying lag, according to DPR. Hope this replacement will come close to the joystick's performance (if you are correct). Well, I gonna test an R anyway before I buy one.


----------



## Avenger 2.0 (Sep 12, 2018)

Talys said:


> EOS R has a two HUGE things that Sony A7 doesn't: DPAF and a shutter that freaking closes when you take the lens off so that dust doesn't go on the sensor. I'm actually not sure which is a bigger plus, because I had so many times when I actually had to take off the lens on the A7R3 and blow on the sensor when I was out in the middle of nature that it was stupid.



I always thought it was impossible to keep the shutter closed hardware wise while changing lenses, but Canon confirms it is indeed possible. 
It's a huge thing as I would never dare to change lenses on the Sony during a shoot for this reason.


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## Viggo (Sep 12, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> Thank you, Mr. Teacher. You mean this new tiny touchscreen, right? I speak about using the EVF, not working with the big LCD screen, which seems to show an annoying lag, according to DPR. Hope this replacement will come close to the joystick's performance (if you are correct). Well, I gonna test an R anyway before I buy one.



You can use the screen for AF point selection whilst using the EVF, and if it’s too big, you can use a smaller area, much like a Wacom, so there’s that


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## aa_angus (Sep 12, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> Thank you, Mr. Teacher. You mean this new tiny touchscreen, right? I speak about using the EVF, not working with the big LCD screen, which seems to show an annoying lag, according to DPR. Hope this replacement will come close to the joystick's performance (if you are correct). Well, I gonna test an R anyway before I buy one.



Thank goodness you aren't designing cameras! Good luck moving between 5000+ AF points with a joystick. This has already been mentioned 100+ times here, and in every EOS R youtube review video.. you select AF points by dragging your thumb on the rear LCD screen. Not the touch-bar. *while looking through the viewfinder*. *while looking through the viewfinder*. *while looking through the viewfinder*. There is no lag. It's a very similar screen to the 5DIV.


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## amorse (Sep 12, 2018)

shunsai said:


> In all honesty, I do wonder about the level of impartiality a reviewer that has been treated at Canon's expense can have. Personally, I found his video pretty fair and honest. But I have no problem with the people who lay into Canon, hands-on experience or not, for not including certain things that have at this point (and pricepoint) become an industry standard. I'm more inclined to think someone is in Canon's pocket if they offer effusive praise without any (or obviously softened) criticism. I saw one reviewer saying basically 'you have no right to criticize this camera that you've never touched' and I don't agree with that. That's exactly what spec sheets are for- to give us factual information about the camera in data form. Yes, there are intangibles such as ergonomics and UX that may make us more flexible in what we accept, but they don't necessarily negate or absolve the specs from obvious omissions.



I think the spec sheet gives you some base information, but I agree that it certainly doesn't tell the whole story. Having reviewers on site is really the only way to showcase those intangibles (i.e. ergonomics and user experience) though, which is how we get into this impartiality mess. If camera companies want reviewers to try out their cameras in an environment that showcases the camera's capabilities, the reviewers are likely to get flown out to a test location and thus impartiality will always be questioned. The same thing (and concerns) happened when Sony flew reviewers out to New York to test the a9. I don't think I have seen one review of the EOS R that forgot to mention the key shortcomings, so I'm inclined to say the reviewers are not giving the camera a break because they went to Hawaii.

At the end of the day every camera model offers a package or combination of those desired features at a price point their parent companies feel will be compelling. Canon has been frequently ridiculed for releasing bodies which are missing one feature or another, but they do almost always have a separate feature which is unique to their system and presents a different value proposition. This characteristic that Canon is so frequently ridiculed for may actually be its greatest strength - omitting some features in favour of adding features which are unique to the brand help to distinguish their company from others while keeping price points comparable. Obviously if Canon included all the features people are missing in reviews, the camera's price point would likely have to increase, or they'd have to remove some features unique to the camera. For instance, the R's features which seem to be really driving the ire of reviewers are single card slots, no FF 4k, no 120 fps at 1080p, slow burst mode, eye-af single shooting only, no rapid silent shutter. On the other hand, the R comes with several features which are unique and can only be found on their system (and in some cases maybe in one more camera) such as: flip/rotate screen on full frame mirrorless, control ring on lenses, sensor protection by shutter while camera is off, drop in filters on adapter, focus at f/11 (2x tele on many more lenses with af possible), focus at -6 ev, and arguably the most exciting launch lens lineup (subjective to be fair). It seems that Canon believes that the unique features list is going to drive more sales than the missing feature list will lose. I don't know if they're right, but I would say if given the option to choose between having all the features missing from the R or having all the unique features from the R, I would probably chose the R's unique features. To each their own though!


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## BeenThere (Sep 12, 2018)

amorse said:


> I think the spec sheet gives you some base information, but I agree that it certainly doesn't tell the whole story. Having reviewers on site is really the only way to showcase those intangibles (i.e. ergonomics and user experience) though, which is how we get into this impartiality mess. If camera companies want reviewers to try out their cameras in an environment that showcases the camera's capabilities, the reviewers are likely to get flown out to a test location and thus impartiality will always be questioned. The same thing (and concerns) happened when Sony flew reviewers out to New York to test the a9. I don't think I have seen one review of the EOS R that forgot to mention the key shortcomings, so I'm inclined to say the reviewers are not giving the camera a break because they went to Hawaii.
> 
> At the end of the day every camera model offers a package or combination of those desired features at a price point their parent companies feel will be compelling. Canon has been frequently ridiculed for releasing bodies which are missing one feature or another, but they do almost always have a separate feature which is unique to their system and presents a different value proposition. This characteristic that Canon is so frequently ridiculed for may actually be its greatest strength - omitting some features in favour of adding features which are unique to the brand help to distinguish their company from others while keeping price points comparable. Obviously if Canon included all the features people are missing in reviews, the camera's price point would likely have to increase, or they'd have to remove some features unique to the camera. For instance, the R's features which seem to be really driving the ire of reviewers are single card slots, no FF 4k, no 120 fps at 1080p, slow burst mode, eye-af single shooting only, no rapid silent shutter. On the other hand, the R comes with several features which are unique and can only be found on their system (and in some cases maybe in one more camera) such as: flip/rotate screen on full frame mirrorless, control ring on lenses, sensor protection by shutter while camera is off, drop in filters on adapter, focus at f/11 (2x tele on many more lenses with af possible), focus at -6 ev, and arguably the most exciting launch lens lineup (subjective to be fair). It seems that Canon believes that the unique features list is going to drive more sales than the missing feature list will lose. I don't know if they're right, but I would say if given the option to choose between having all the features missing from the R or having all the unique features from the R, I would probably chose the R's unique features. To each their own though!


The most unique feature is native compatibility with EF, EF-s, and R lenses; albeit using an adapter with the former two mounts. Canon glass rules.


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## aj1575 (Sep 12, 2018)

Well, so far the reviews look promising. They are much better, than what Canon usually gets. Maybe, people weren't expecting that much from C.
I also like what I've seen so far; Canon addressed the main concern I had with mirrorless so far. Sony was (is) all about downsizing, which works against the ergonomics in some areas; a camera is a single purpose tool, and we need to make adjustments fast, at best with dedicated buttons. The EOS R is a little bit bigger than the A7, and so it offers more buttons, and a bigger grip. I like what they did, maybe, I can somehow justify to spend so much on a camera.


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## Kit. (Sep 12, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Thank goodness you aren't designing cameras! Good luck moving between 5000+ AF points with a joystick.


That's not a lot, if the joystick is done right. Even better, a joustick can be held in a fixed position to track monotonously moving targets.



aa_angus said:


> This has already been mentioned 100+ times here, and in every EOS R youtube review video.. you select AF points by dragging your thumb on the rear LCD screen. Not the touch-bar. *while looking through the viewfinder*. *while looking through the viewfinder*. *while looking through the viewfinder*. There is no lag. It's a very similar screen to the 5DIV.


Thumb? I have a nose there.

Maybe I should select AF points by dragging my nose?


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## FroKnowsPhoto (Sep 12, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> The rear LCD is the joystick replacement. It’s faster and easier to select AF points through the viewfinder. Stop complaining about the joystick ommision. It’s there. If you have a thumb, you can easily and quickly change the AF point.


How about when you flip vertically with the grip and you can't reach the LCD anymore with your thumb? Did you think of that one? Also i've said a touch sensitive pad where the joystick would be would be a nice option.


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## FroKnowsPhoto (Sep 12, 2018)

amorse said:


> FYI it looks like Fro (and others) are getting subtly accused of going easy on the Canon EOS R because Canon flew a lot of youtube reviewers out to Hawaii to test the body. Fro had a podcast on it last night I think addressing the suggestion. The argument has been "maybe if Nikon put out more for the reviewers they wouldn't of been so hard on the Z7 and Z6".
> 
> God forbid someone say something nice about a Canon camera. If you want to have some fun, search EOS R on youtube and count how many icons have someone doing a facepalm in it. The frothing hype around new mirrorless cameras is getting a bit silly. Well, "getting" may be a bit of an overstatement.


That is not correct. I'm not "taking it easy" on Canon because they flew us to Hawaii. Nikon "flew" people to NYC for their event. I don't need to fly to NYC since I live in Philly. 

What Nikon needed to do was put cameras in our hands for more than an hour. Canon put cameras in our hands and we had three days to use them and at the end take them home for 6 weeks to continue using them. So in an hour at the Nikon event, you can't exactly learn how to use the camera full, thus why I didn't put out a review, only a preview.


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## vaotix (Sep 12, 2018)

Love that we're seeing more and more impressions/reviews. Camera seems like a great fit for me. Only thing preventing me from pre-ordering now is I need to hear from someone with hands-on time with the camera if there's a performance difference between native Canon EF lenses and 3rd party EF lenses using the adapter on this camera. All the impressions so far have only mentioned Canon glass but I have a few Sigma Art lenses I can't do without.


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## amorse (Sep 12, 2018)

FroKnowsPhoto said:


> That is not correct. I'm not "taking it easy" on Canon because they flew us to Hawaii. Nikon "flew" people to NYC for their event. I don't need to fly to NYC since I live in Philly.
> 
> What Nikon needed to do was put cameras in our hands for more than an hour. Canon put cameras in our hands and we had three days to use them and at the end take them home for 6 weeks to continue using them. So in an hour at the Nikon event, you can't exactly learn how to use the camera full, thus why I didn't put out a review, only a preview.



Thanks for the response. I'm not accusing you of taking it easy, I think you were absolutely fair. I was noting that some other reviewers and commenters were making the suggestion that the responses to Canon were not impartial because people were flown around. I disagree with that - I think you have to handle the camera to understand the value proposition it provides, which means you have to be where the camera is. In fact, I find it really interesting to compare responses to the camera from people who have handled it versus those that have just seen the spec sheet. 

My only point in my initial comment was noting that those accusations were floating around, not that they were valid. I think you are right to reserve comments on the Nikon cameras until you have sufficient time to review and test.


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## mpmark (Sep 12, 2018)

Jakdr said:


> I don't get why anyone would be interested in this camera at the moment. It's probably a solid camera, yes. But it has a bad 4k crop, no 120 in 1080, generally not the best video functions..



Because its a camera first, if you want a video camera first then go buy a video camera. Why the constant bashing on video? I dont care for video, I'm buying a Camera. You want something that does everything for peanuts money.


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## snappy604 (Sep 12, 2018)

BeenThere said:


> The most unique feature is native compatibility with EF, EF-s, and R lenses; albeit using an adapter with the former two mounts. Canon glass rules.



while less megapixel, I like that capability too. I happen to be coming from Crop so some of my lenses are EF-S...


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## kaptainkatsu (Sep 12, 2018)

fullstop said:


> why would a fully capable mirrorfree sports camera "upset" sports photographers??
> 
> even or especially if it were launched today?
> 
> ...




It's just not proven yet. Even if Canon released a 1R along side with the R TODAY, with same exact or better specs than the 1DX2, all the sports photographers in the world won't just immediately switch. The 1DX2 is proven and reliable. Journalists and Sports Photographers need proven reliability, not just spec sheets.


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## gmon750 (Sep 12, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> Exactly what I decided to do. Shooting mostly stills, my 5D3 still serves me well, and it looks like it'll keen to survive it's official lifetime end with roughly 150.000 actuations now. Still no signs of fatigue.
> 
> For me, there is one fundamental question left open since I shoot a lot of wildlife, mostly birding: is a ML with EVF really the better option? Everybody doing wildlife knows those hours sitting in a hide, peering frequently through the viewfinder and waiting for something to happen. With an OVF you don't drain the battery doing that, but with an EVF you do. So, maybe, shooting wildlife with a ML camera means carrying substantially more batteries in the package.



I do a lot of underwater photography and the equipment is very expensive, especially the housing which is specific to the 5DM3. I'm committed to that camera for the foreseeable future. I don't see the housing manufacturers milling housings for this camera just yet, and whether it's even possible given the touch-controls. I hope Canon does go to manual controls like the joystick for their higher-end ML cameras. Dual slots is a necessity in my line of underwater work, and of course battery life. My 5DM3 runs forever on one charge and I don't have to remove it from a sealed, pressurized housing due to batteries. Whatever ML camera I get someday has to have that kind of longevity.


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## psolberg (Sep 13, 2018)

the problem with these guys (and nothing personal against him) is that the moment you tell me: buy from my links, I just can't take you any differently than a best buy sales guy working on commission.


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## BeenThere (Sep 13, 2018)

psolberg said:


> the problem with these guys (and nothing personal against him) is that the moment you tell me: buy from my links, I just can't take you any differently than a best buy sales guy working on commission.


My understanding is that the BestBuy sales guys do not work on commission. But, of course they do want their store to have good sales so as to not go out of business. Personally, I trust some of the reviewers and you get to know their biases after reading them over a long period of time.


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## aa_angus (Sep 13, 2018)

Everyone complaining about the LCD being used for AF point selection istead of the old, slow joystick: wait until the camera arrives. Then you can keep complaining, or experience the future of AF point selection. Oh yeah, there's also the multi-directional pad *and* the control dial if you decide drag AF is too fast for you. Options for everyone really. It reminds me of those weddings where you see the couple awkwardly posing for ages...then start to look at each other (as if to say umm who is this guy trying to take out photos)..while the "photographer" is still screaming at them to "hold". Just take the damn photo already!


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## aa_angus (Sep 13, 2018)

Kit. said:


> That's not a lot, if the joystick is done right. Even better, a joustick can be held in a fixed position to track monotonously moving targets.
> 
> 
> Thumb? I have a nose there.
> ...



Did you operate the joystick with your nose? Maybe a used 5DII is more suited for your needs.


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## FTb-n (Sep 13, 2018)

kaptainkatsu said:


> I doubt there will be a 1R for at least a few years. I could possibly see the 5DV become a 5R but I’ve got my money that there will be a mirrored 1DX3 in 2020. I’ve got a 1DX2 and went paired with a 70-200 2.8 or other big whites, It has very good balance and feel. Don’t think canon would want to upset pro sports photographers. I could see a 1R come out a few years later as an alternative but I would bet they would want to mature the native lens lineup before retiring the tried and true full size 1D mirror body.


I love my 1Dx2 with the 70-200 2.8 II and with the 100-400 II. Low light performance, focus tracking under extreme conditions, and FPS bursts are key features of the 1Dx2 for my sports work. The new R lays the groundwork for more advancements in these areas, especially with over 5,000 focus points and eye focus. 

I know, I've been slammed for suggesting that the R's eye focus is almost as good as Sony's because Canon's version doesn't offer it in servo -- yet. I'm given Canon the benefit of the doubt. Software and CPU development have been a strength of Canon and I have no doubt that firmware updates will improve upon the R's eye focus function and I also expect the future "pro" R to take this a step further.

I've been a hold out from mirrorless and saw no reason to consider it, largely because the 1Dx and 1Dx2 have met my needs well and Canon has the glass. But, if the new R is a non-Pro body, I see great potential for the Pro R version. Sports is where Canon hangs its hat and if Canon is working on a flagship mirrorless body, it will be a sports body. The 2020 Games will be a great opportunity for Canon to make a lot of noise in the industry with 1Rx.

I also wonder if the potential of dual pixel to tweak focus after the fact will be further developed with future sensors and software.

While I'm on the limb, might I suggest that the EOS R announcement, with its several lenses, will hurt the future Sony. I give Sony 5-10 years of relevance. Sony has been alone with its mirrorless bodies, but they failed to demonstrate a long term commitment to the glass. The "system" has been Canon's strength. They introduced the F1 surrounded by lots of FD glass, they introduced the EOS as a system with EF lenses, and now we have the EOS R -- which is "backed" by the current EF lineup thanks to the adapters.

Sony has a history of exploring technology leading products, then switching gears. They introduced the Walkman, but didn't stick with it long enough and let Apple run away with the pocket audio market with their iPod. Sony woke up two sleeping photo giants, but without a serious commitment to glass (and flash), Sony has just been dabbling in the photo stills business. Now that Canon and Nikon have made their commitments to mirrorless systems known, I expect Sony to switching gears is the near future -- maybe back to video.


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## aa_angus (Sep 13, 2018)

Jjjjjjjjjjjjared Polin Fro Knows (how to review, but not take) Photo



.com


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## highdesertmesa (Sep 13, 2018)

I downloaded the sample files and noticed on the close-up face shots that maximum shadow recovery is showing banding in the dark areas of the model's hair. I don't remember seeing this with my 5D4.

Good news is looks like the AA filter is very light, reminiscent of the original 5D.


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## BillB (Sep 13, 2018)

psolberg said:


> the problem with these guys (and nothing personal against him) is that the moment you tell me: buy from my links, I just can't take you any differently than a best buy sales guy working on commission.


Well, some of us think we can tell the difference between Brian Carnathan and a Best Buy salesman.


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## takesome1 (Sep 13, 2018)

BeenThere said:


> My understanding is that the BestBuy sales guys do not work on commission. But, of course they do want their store to have good sales so as to not go out of business. Personally, I trust some of the reviewers and you get to know their biases after reading them over a long period of time.



I have known BestBuy sales guys.

The store they worked at did not do commission. However, they had a quota.

Once they met their sales quota for the day they got to go home.


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## ethanz (Sep 13, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Jjjjjjjjjjjjared Polin Fro Knows (how to review, but not take) Photo
> 
> 
> 
> .com


I always skip to the 30 second mark of his videos to bypass that.


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## dak723 (Sep 13, 2018)

gmrza said:


> What I would still like to understand is how Canon is dealing with the fact that the shorter flange distance is resulting in the light hitting the sensor from a more oblique angle. Canon's sensors have traditionally not dealt with this very well. I wonder if Canon has improved the way its sensors handle light coming in from an extreme angle, or whether they are just fudging things and "fixing" the issue digitally.



Even though the flange distance is shorter, they have kept the wide diameter mount which allows the new RF lenses to have wider rear elements. By making the rear lens element wider, it will reduce the angle of the light hitting the outermost edges of the sensor. Nikon is using a wide mount as well. Sony is not, which is why they have to make most of their lenses longer - keeping the rear lens element farther away to reduce the angle.

How well will it work? I guess we will find out. All this is explained in one the Rudy Winston videos that Canon released on YouTube.


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## kaptainkatsu (Sep 13, 2018)

FTb-n said:


> I love my 1Dx2 with the 70-200 2.8 II and with the 100-400 II. Low light performance, focus tracking under extreme conditions, and FPS bursts are key features of the 1Dx2 for my sports work. The new R lays the groundwork for more advancements in these areas, especially with over 5,000 focus points and eye focus.
> 
> I know, I've been slammed for suggesting that the R's eye focus is almost as good as Sony's because Canon's version doesn't offer it in servo -- yet. I'm given Canon the benefit of the doubt. Software and CPU development have been a strength of Canon and I have no doubt that firmware updates will improve upon the R's eye focus function and I also expect the future "pro" R to take this a step further.
> 
> ...




I can see several scenarios for the 1R and 1DX3:
A: Release the 1R in 2019, release the 1DX3 in 2020
B: Release 1DX3 and 1R simultaneously for the 2020 olympics. 
C: Release the 1DX3 in 2020, 1R late 2020 or later.

What I can bet on for sure is there will be a 1DX3 in 2020. B and C is more likely than A as it will give Canon more time to refine the R technologies to meet the demands of Pro sports photographers. The A9 didn't come out until after the Mark 2 A7 line was released.


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## stevelee (Sep 13, 2018)

takesome1 said:


> I have known BestBuy sales guys.
> 
> The store they worked at did not do commission. However, they had a quota.
> 
> Once they met their sales quota for the day they got to go home.



I bought my 6D2 and later the 16-35mm f/4 from the same salesman at Best Buy. He was very knowledgeable and helpful. When I was looking at the lens, he didn't act like someone with a quota or on commission. The other salesmen seem helpful enough, too. One recently told me that none of their tripods would be better for me than what I already had. He suggested that rather than buying a heavier tripod for use with the 100-400mm, I just screw some weight on the bottom of the pole, and showed me where the screw for that is. I already had got a better head, as recommended on another thread here.

My camera salesman has cut back on his hours because his photography business is supporting him. When he's in, the other guys steer people to him if they are looking at Canon gear. He shoots the original 6D. When I was back some months later to look at lenses, he wanted to know how happy I was with the 6D2. I guess he had read and watched some of the negative stuff on the web.

Their store seems better equipped with camera gear than other Best Buys I've been in. With the demise of camera stores, they probably don't have any competition within 12 miles. They have what looks to me like a pretty good selection of Canon, Sony, and Nikon DSLRs and mirrorless as well as lenses.


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## lenspacker (Sep 13, 2018)

ok, I´ve seen the specs of the Canon R and from the first moment I knew, that this thing isn`t mine. Only 5 fps, this is old speed (like my grandpa runs the 100m....), only one slot, no joystick .... I`ll wait for a pro-model - - perhaps they will release it in 2019 - the problem is, that there are no alternatives.....nikon shows the same, Fuji has only APS-C, Panasonic - I don`t know und the sony bodies have such a great lack of ergonomics, that I can`t handle them with big lenses - - - so the consequence is: waiting for a pro model of canon R and until this day I`ll shoot further more with my 1dx - so I `m not in a hurry to buy this mickey-mouse-model ....


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## RayValdez360 (Sep 14, 2018)

So much Fro hate here. As a fellow Philadelphian. I have to defend him. He isnt bad and his videos are informative.


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 14, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> Thank goodness you aren't designing cameras! Good luck moving between 5000+ AF points with a joystick. This has already been mentioned 100+ times here, and in every EOS R youtube review video.. you select AF points by dragging your thumb on the rear LCD screen. Not the touch-bar. *while looking through the viewfinder*. *while looking through the viewfinder*. *while looking through the viewfinder*. There is no lag. It's a very similar screen to the 5DIV.



Hey Mr Angus, relax, this is only about photography here. Watch your mental and physical health, it's not worth to ruin yourself with rising blood pressure just because of postings in such threads. Go out and catch some nice images instead.

Btw I highly recommend to use vintage film cameras frequently, alternating with digital cameras, as I do. No AF, no touch bars, no menus, it is just about your real skills as a photographer. If you pull bad images out of the fixer bath, you can't accuse the technology for failing.


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## aa_angus (Sep 15, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> Hey Mr Angus, relax, this is only about photography here. Watch your mental and physical health, it's not worth to ruin yourself with rising blood pressure just because of postings in such threads. Go out and catch some nice images instead.
> 
> Btw I highly recommend to use vintage film cameras frequently, alternating with digital cameras, as I do. No AF, no touch bars, no menus, it is just about your real skills as a photographer. If you pull bad images out of the fixer bath, you can't accuse the technology for failing.



1. If you don't care for camera development, why are you reading about the latest Canon digital release? That strikes me as being odd.
2. My blood pressure is healthily low.
3. I can only put up with people complaining that a feature has been removed, when it has been improved by something better (that they don't recognize and are thus scared of), so many times.
3. I have spent many, many years shooting and developing film (who hasn't? Everyone shoots film). It is fun, however this forum is dedicated to the latest digital releases from Canon. Refer to point number 1.
4. I am not doubting that you are an excellent, world-leading photographer who captures shots others simply cannot, due to your enhanced ability and prowess. However, all of us below your skill level depend upon using reliable modern equipment to make a living. That includes depending on modern AF systems, and thus modern AF point selection methods.


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## Quirkz (Sep 15, 2018)

fullstop said:


> weird thinking. but possibly it really does reflect backwards-oriented octogenarian Canon board room's thinking.
> 
> luckily Sony, Fuji and - hopefully - Panasonic are different.



I actually agree with some of what you said. IF a 1Rx were fully as capable as a dslr 1dx3.

But as for your casual dismissal of those ‘octogenarians’, you’ve completely missed the brilliance of their strategy. It’s always been about the lenses. Those switching to Sony rave that they can still use their amazing canon glass. And here canon has released a new format with some of the most astounding lenses in production - *that can’t be adapted to another manufacturers mount.*

And executed perfectly with 4 stunning lenses on launch, and a camera that will, as always, be a joy to use.

Canon just dropped the mic.


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## fullstop (Sep 15, 2018)

i fully agree and gave stated many times that R mount is "really well chosen".

re those 4 RF lenses ... weirdo starting lineup. 
* kit lens not really better and not much smaller than EF counterpart but much more expensive. for what?
* 50/1.2 and 28-70/2.0 - extreme "minority program pickle jars.
* a really compact, excellent IQ 24-70/4 with IS. would have been much more suitable for the mirrorfree 6D III body. 
* 35mm "pseudo macro" - not very interesting either. 
* a really good, compact and affordable 50/1.4 IS would have sold a lot better.

so no, Canon did not drop the mic. underspecced body, strange lens lineup. but really right lens mount. so at least there's hope for the future.


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## Viggo (Sep 15, 2018)

fullstop said:


> i fully agree and gave stated many times that R mount is "really well chosen".
> 
> re those 4 RF lenses ... weirdo starting lineup. kit lens not really better and not much smaller than EF counterpart. 50/1.2 and 28-70/2.0 - extreme "minority program". a really compact, excellent IQ 24-70/4 with IS. would have been much more suitable for the mirrorfree 6D III body. 35mm "pseudo macro" - not interested either. a really good, compact and affordable 50/1.4 IS would likely have sold a lot better.


Check out the Canon Burbank event on YouTube, they explain why those four lenses, one for each type of photographer, it makes perfect sense to me at least. And I’m MUCH more interested in a ridiculously fabulous 50 f1.2 than a nice 50 f1.4 IS, in fact, that 50 is why I’m switching from DSLR and EF


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## fullstop (Sep 15, 2018)

fair enough, for a professional who wants and needs to get "the utmost" in their images. me, i am just a humble amateur, f/1.8 is plenty for me, f/1.4 already pushing it.


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## BillB (Sep 15, 2018)

fullstop said:


> i fully agree and gave stated many times that R mount is "really well chosen".
> 
> re those 4 RF lenses ... weirdo starting lineup.
> * kit lens not really better and not much smaller than EF counterpart but much more expensive. for what?
> ...



I agree that the first 4 RF lenses don't give much of a clue about where Canon will go with small, relatively inexpensive, lenses in the new RF space. Canon pioneered the 24-105 f4 design back in the 5DII days, IIRC, and they seem to think the 24-105 is the killer zoom in the enthusiast market, even although it has always been on the hefty side. A 35mm, whether macro or not, is pretty basic in building a clutch of small primes, but how many people are going to put money into building a clutch of small RF primes? So, something like a small 24-70 would seem to be a key piece of the puzzle, maybe in the context of a smaller RF mount body. In fact, I am hard put to come up with another lens design that would approach it in significance in that part of the RF space.


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## Viggo (Sep 15, 2018)

BillB said:


> I agree that the first 4 RF lenses don't give much of a clue about where Canon will go with small, relatively inexpensive, lenses in the new RF space. Canon pioneered the 24-105 f4 design back in the 5DII days, IIRC, and they seem to think the 24-105 is the killer zoom in the enthusiast market, even although it has always been on the hefty side. A 35mm, whether macro or not, is pretty basic in building a clutch of small primes, but how many people are going to put money into building a clutch of small RF primes? So, something like a small 24-70 would seem to be a key piece of the puzzle, maybe in the context of a smaller RF mount body. In fact, I am hard put to come up with another lens design that would approach it in significance in that part of the RF space.


Canon have already stated that the did not go mirrorless to go small at all. They did it because the new mount gives the lens designers a whole new level to work on. So I’m thinking 135 f1.8, 200 f1.8, 100 f2.0 1:1 , 11 f2.8 etc with EPIC image quality...


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## privatebydesign (Sep 16, 2018)

Viggo said:


> Canon have already stated that the did not go mirrorless to go small at all. They did it because the new mount gives the lens designers a whole new level to work on. So I’m thinking 135 f1.8, 200 f1.8, 100 f2.0 1:1 , 11 f2.8 etc with EPIC image quality...



No, they said they didn't go FF mirrorless to go small, they did go APS-C/M series mirrorless for the smaller size.


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## Viggo (Sep 16, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> No, they said they didn't go FF mirrorless to go small, they did go APS-C/M series mirrorless for the smaller size.



Of course, I don’t count the M


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## dtgphoto (Sep 16, 2018)

I wish Canon would do a stills only version of the R. Getting rid of the whingers that want xyz video feature and expecting the vast majority that don't use those video features to subsidise it for them. Strip the video stuff out and give us some more still photographic goodies.


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## SRSW (Sep 16, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Your statement implies the point of FF mirrorless is to push spec barriers or to be small. Consider a different perspective.
> 
> Comparing to the 5D4...
> 
> ...



Yep! - got it in one there!


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## aa_angus (Sep 16, 2018)

Earlier I stated that Polin is gimpy. This may be true, but Northrup and his sister take gimpy to a whole new level. I don't know how their brains manage to manufacture such high levels of gimp. They are also annoying to look at.


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## ethanz (Sep 16, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> and his sister



I don't think that is his sister.


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 17, 2018)

aa_angus said:


> 1. If you don't care for camera development, why are you reading about the latest Canon digital release? That strikes me as being odd.
> 
> 4. I am not doubting that you are an excellent, world-leading photographer who captures shots others simply cannot, due to your enhanced ability and prowess. However, all of us below your skill level depend upon using reliable modern equipment to make a living. That includes depending on modern AF systems, and thus modern AF point selection methods.



Re 1.: I do certainly care for camera progress (but more in fundamental progress based on physics such as not yet mature light-field photography). But your reaction just because I just miss the joystick in the spec list (did not yet try an EOS R) was quite out of any proportion. You are exactly this sort of rude posters that I hoped will never pop op on Canonrumors, where most people seem to be nice characters. Obviously, times are changing.

Re 4.: Certainly, you nailed it 

This is my last reply to any of your postings in this thread, Mr. Angus. Interesting to see that nobody liked your attitude here so far...


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## aa_angus (Sep 17, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> Re 1.: I do certainly care for camera progress (but more in fundamental progress based on physics such as not yet mature light-field photography). But your reaction just because I just miss the joystick in the spec list (did not yet try an EOS R) was quite out of any proportion. You are exactly this sort of rude posters that I hoped will never pop op on Canonrumors, where most people seem to be nice characters. Obviously, times are changing.
> 
> Re 4.: Certainly, you nailed it
> 
> This is my last reply to any of your postings in this thread, Mr. Angus. Interesting to see that nobody liked your attitude here so far...[/QUO)TE]



Oh, so you haven't actually tried touch and drag AF selection? That makes sense


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