# Two new EOS M cameras rumoured to be coming in 2020 [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 18, 2019)

> 2020 is shaping up as a big year for new product announcements from Canon, especially on the prosumer and professional fronts. The EOS M lineup will likely see at least one new model as well, as the EOS M50 will likely need a successor.
> This rumor is being floated by a site that doesn’t source any sites they take information from, so I’ll return that favour.
> *Rumoured EOS M50 Mark II / EOS M60*
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


----------



## Pape (Nov 18, 2019)

Intresting plan,lets flood market with M cameras and RF lenses


----------



## canonnews (Nov 18, 2019)

"The EOS M5 isn’t going to get a Mark II version according to Canon "

To be accurate, Canon never stated this - Canon USA (and USA only) stated that the M6 Mark II effectively replaces the M5 and M6.


----------



## bdbender4 (Nov 18, 2019)

It seems pretty clear at this point that Canon views EF-M as an entry-level consumer system. If we are going to take it seriously, we don't need more bodies, we need more lenses that aren't consumer zooms. This has been the situation for many years now. Only the 11-22, 22, and 32 are good lenses, IMHO from having used many of the EF-M lenses on my M5 and M6.

The Sigma recycled-Sony-E big heavy old fashioned large-objective designs don't count, either. If we have to have large heavy, how about something like a 15-60 F/4 really good Canon EF-M lens?


----------



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 18, 2019)

canonnews said:


> "The EOS M5 isn’t going to get a Mark II version according to Canon "
> 
> To be accurate, Canon never stated this - Canon USA (and USA only) stated that the M6 Mark II effectively replaces the M5 and M6.



They've stated it twice to me.


----------



## bellorusso (Nov 18, 2019)

Last time Canon released anything worth mentioning was when... I even forgot when it was. Canon, good job at helping Sony making more money.


----------



## IcyBergs (Nov 18, 2019)

bdbender4 said:


> It seems pretty clear at this point that Canon views EF-M as an entry-level consumer system. If we are going to take it seriously, we don't need more bodies, we need more lenses that aren't consumer zooms. This has been the situation for many years now. Only the 11-22, 22, and 32 are good lenses, IMHO from having used many of the EF-M lenses on my M5 and M6.
> 
> The Sigma recycled-Sony-E big heavy old fashioned large-objective designs don't count, either. If we have to have large heavy, how about something like a 15-60 F/4 really good Canon EF-M lens?



I agree its an entry level system - a gateway to a future mount for the novices, and to the serious amateur or professional its a smaller kit for leisure time or travel (have it on me all the time camera). In my opinion that is the only logical explanation for why we haven't seen a more broad lens offering than what's already available. 

I'm in the market to grab a 2nd hand M50, and must say I'm not really concerned about lens selection. I would only want the 22 f/2, and essentially use it as a compact fixed lens 35mm equivalent camera (albeit with the option to change lenses, should circumstances change - unlike the fuji x100 series etc). That's just me, but I have a feeling Canon is telling a M series owner or prospective owner that if you want more native lens selection then move up to RF.

At the moment it is pretty obvious that Canon is not "serious" about APS-C.


----------



## Del Paso (Nov 18, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> Last time Canon released anything worth mentioning was when... I even forgot when it was. Canon, good job at helping Sony making more money.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> That's a good one!


----------



## SteveCheetham (Nov 18, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> They've stated it twice to me.


Was that a 'The M6ii is replacing the M5 and M6 for now (until we finish developing the M5ii)' or 'We will definitely never develop an M5ii' ? I love my little M5, and would be interested in an M5ii with built in EVF, but don't want the M6ii with accessory EVF.


----------



## mclaren777 (Nov 18, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> They've stated it twice to me.



Then it looks like I won't be buying into the EOS M system.

Foolish move by Canon.


----------



## Architect1776 (Nov 18, 2019)

SteveCheetham said:


> Was that a 'The M6ii is replacing the M5 and M6 for now (until we finish developing the M5ii)' or 'We will definitely never develop an M5ii' ? I love my little M5, and would be interested in an M5ii with built in EVF, but don't want the M6ii with accessory EVF.



Agreed, No built in viewfinder kills the M series for me completely.
Now a built in viewfinder and IBIS you can get my interest back.
For the money cameras cost now I look for features in a brand that I am interested in. 
Sony definitely not.


----------



## Architect1776 (Nov 18, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> Last time Canon released anything worth mentioning was when... I even forgot when it was. Canon, good job at helping Sony making more money.



Guess you missed the RF system.
An engineering base that puts Sony back to the stone age and with the new RF mount lenses proving it over and over.
Camera wise, yes they will do that as well but they have a habit of getting it right rather than "Upgrade" it every few months leaving the Sony owner with outdated junk almost monthly.


----------



## Alastair Norcross (Nov 18, 2019)

bdbender4 said:


> It seems pretty clear at this point that Canon views EF-M as an entry-level consumer system. If we are going to take it seriously, we don't need more bodies, we need more lenses that aren't consumer zooms. This has been the situation for many years now. Only the 11-22, 22, and 32 are good lenses, IMHO from having used many of the EF-M lenses on my M5 and M6.
> 
> The Sigma recycled-Sony-E big heavy old fashioned large-objective designs don't count, either. If we have to have large heavy, how about something like a 15-60 F/4 really good Canon EF-M lens?


You clearly haven't handled any of the Sigma primes. The 56 is by no stretch of the imagination big or heavy. It's designed specifically for APS-C mirrorless. It's barely any bigger or heavier than the EF-M 32. Considering it's nearly twice the focal length of that lens, and has the same F1.4 maximum aperture, it's incredibly compact. If you want a smaller high-quality 56mm F1.4 lens that fits on APS-C, you'll have to alter the laws of physics. The 16mm F1.4 is the biggest, but it's also incredibly small and light for a 16mm F1.4 lens. I've been using the Sigma 56 almost exclusively on my M6II for the last couple of weeks. It's small, light, and incredibly sharp.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Nov 18, 2019)

So much low end action
I am jealous waiting for the high end mirrorless options. The rf lenses look great but we just need the following popular bodies as an RF

7d mark
5D mark
1D 

this is the holy trinity of bodies
The high megapixel RF is not a high volume camera or very important


----------



## mb66energy (Nov 18, 2019)

EOS M50 body only price is very solidly close to the introductory price so mid/end 2020 is a good estimate for the next iteration.
Hopefully the M50 ii (or whatever is the builtin-EVF-M-camera) has full sensor 4k and at least one selector ring like thingy in addition to the existing one ... to set params faster. And linear PCM for sound ...!


----------



## Mistral75 (Nov 18, 2019)

Announcement date '_before July 2020_' and dollar price already determined? Yeah, sure...


----------



## unfocused (Nov 18, 2019)

I'm skeptical, but on the other hand, if Canon's market research does show that mirrorless bodies are displacing consumer grade DSLRs, then it makes sense for Canon to start filling out the line with bodies at a variety of price points, like the Rebel series. I don't know why people whine about this. It's not like the Rebels ever kept Canon from producing higher end bodies as well. In fact, Canon used the Rebels as gateway drugs to get a certain percentage of consumers addicted to more costly lenses and bodies.


----------



## strathmore9 (Nov 18, 2019)

Any chance we'll see an upcoming M with max shutter 8000? I'd like something smaller than the 90D, but I'm afraid I'll have no choice.


----------



## Andy Westwood (Nov 18, 2019)

I’m not a big fan of the new M6 II surely it should have had a twisty screen like the M50. It’s a shame there will be no M5 II. I like my M5 with its built in EVF but would have liked to see an update with M50 type twisty screen but with M5 resolution and better AF. I will keep my M5 for now, it’s a fun holiday snapper / general purpose camera and lives in my camera bag as a backup. I just don’t see the M6 II as an update or replacement to the M5 maybe the M50II / M60 will be that camera in 2020 if it happens.


----------



## bdbender4 (Nov 19, 2019)

Alastair Norcross said:


> You clearly haven't handled any of the Sigma primes. The 56 is by no stretch of the imagination big or heavy. It's designed specifically for APS-C mirrorless. It's barely any bigger or heavier than the EF-M 32. Considering it's nearly twice the focal length of that lens, and has the same F1.4 maximum aperture, it's incredibly compact. If you want a smaller high-quality 56mm F1.4 lens that fits on APS-C, you'll have to alter the laws of physics. The 16mm F1.4 is the biggest, but it's also incredibly small and light for a 16mm F1.4 lens. I've been using the Sigma 56 almost exclusively on my M6II for the last couple of weeks. It's small, light, and incredibly sharp.


Well, I'm glad that the Sigma lens is working for you, as is the M6 II. And I confess to having not handled the Sigmas. 

What I don't see is how the advent of 3 Sigma primes signals anything about how Canon is taking EF-M lens development any more seriously. The element profiles of the Sigma lenses is just recycled DSLR typical: large objective lens with a train of smaller elements behind. The 32mm Canon is a true new mirrorless design, relatively small concave objective lens with a train of large elements behind. You can find this new design profile in the Nikon S 50mm as well.


----------



## i_SH (Nov 19, 2019)

With sadness.
Unfortunately, fixed focus lenses, both native and third-party, do not provide all the needs of photographers(..
Among the zooms, I see only one lens that is praised - it's 11-22. But its aperture is not enough for perfect work with a 32.5 megapixel matrix.
My own 15-45 lens is just disgusting(


----------



## mpb001 (Nov 19, 2019)

If Canon isn’t planning on making any M lenses to obtain the best results from the 32 MP sensor in the M series in particular, I don’t understand why they bothered to install it in the M6II. 

i am a Canon FF user, but would consider the M6II if they had lenses to get the best results from the 32MP sensor without looking for third party lenses. If they do not care to expand the M series with lenses to go with the higher MP sensor, I guess that its all just marketing.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Nov 19, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Announcement date September 2020
> ....
> Announcement date Before July 2020



Hmmm... meh... Rumours almost a year ahead are no better than a weather forecast for the next week.


----------



## Etienne (Nov 19, 2019)

No M5 mk II. 
I'm pretty sick of being disappointed by Canon.


----------



## Chaitanya (Nov 19, 2019)

Curious if any one of those gets IBIS or has built in viewfinder.


----------



## navastronia (Nov 19, 2019)

Chaitanya said:


> Curious if any one of those gets IBIS or has built in viewfinder.



I think it would be fun to see IBIS in a lower-end body before it's implemented in a premium body just to gauge how well it works and see where Canon may go in the future.


----------



## Cat_Interceptor (Nov 19, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> If Canon isn’t planning on making any M lenses to obtain the best results from the 32 MP sensor in the M series in particular, I don’t understand why they bothered to install it in the M6II.
> 
> i am a Canon FF user, but would consider the M6II if they had lenses to get the best results from the 32MP sensor without looking for third party lenses. If they do not care to expand the M series with lenses to go with the higher MP sensor, I guess that its all just marketing.




I still dont quite understand this thought. The M6 II works perfectly with EF and EF-S with the adapter - the adapter isn't large and you don't have to get the big heavy EF glass...? There's good quality smaller and lighter that is very available. L style quality still gonna be big and heavy no matter the mount size too so... why not just use EF or EF-S?

Also there is simply zero performance minuses with the adapter. Autofocus still fast as native.

It really is a great camera. Just get the adapter and enjoy


----------



## Joules (Nov 19, 2019)

bdbender4 said:


> The element profiles of the Sigma lenses is just recycled DSLR typical: large objective lens with a train of smaller elements behind.


What are you saying here? That these 3 Sigma lenses that came out for Ef-m are DSLR Designs? In that case, could you please link me to the EF version of the 16mm 1.4 because I would love to have that lens on my 80D to replace the Samyang 16mm 2.0.

Unfortunately for me these lenses are specially designed for mirrorless, taking advantage of the lower flange distance to bring of the fastest 16mm lens available... Just, only available for mirrorless. Having that available for the M system is definitely a bonus for that system.

In any case, I think you look into these lenses a bit more before writing about them. Yes, there were available in other mirrorless mounts before coming to EF-M and they don't follow Canon 62mm diameter law, but they are certainly nice lenses.


----------



## andrei1989 (Nov 19, 2019)

Cat_Interceptor said:


> I still dont quite understand this thought. The M6 II works perfectly with EF and EF-S with the adapter - the adapter isn't large and you don't have to get the big heavy EF glass...? There's good quality smaller and lighter that is very available. L style quality still gonna be big and heavy no matter the mount size too so... why not just use EF or EF-S?
> 
> Also there is simply zero performance minuses with the adapter. Autofocus still fast as native.
> 
> It really is a great camera. Just get the adapter and enjoy



too many bodies, too few lenses

bodies come and go as resolution increases or AF improves or whatever else

a good lens is forever (almost) and can keep people in the system upgrading the bodies


----------



## Quackator (Nov 19, 2019)

Built-in viewfinder and hot shoe (that's not rendered obsolete by viewfinders) 
are mandatory for any new M camera I might contemplate to buy. 

Don't care about IBIS - in fact if given the choice of the exact same camera
with and without IBIS, everything otherwise the same - I'd even pay more for
the model without IBIS.


----------



## john kriegsmann (Nov 19, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I thought long and hard about buying and M50. Biggest problem is lack of native lenses. M series is so small that ef/es lenses are too large to use with it by adapter. I purchased a Canon RP full frame. Very happy with its performance and size. My canon prime lenses -50 and 85- work beautifully with adapter and I purchased an inexpensive RF 35 mm 1.8 IS native lens. All the other new RF lenses are heavy and expensive fast primes f 1.2 glass which IMO is gouging the market. Hopefully Canon will eventually produce a series of RF primes with an aperture of 1.8 or 2.


----------



## BillB (Nov 19, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> If Canon isn’t planning on making any M lenses to obtain the best results from the 32 MP sensor in the M series in particular, I don’t understand why they bothered to install it in the M6II.
> 
> i am a Canon FF user, but would consider the M6II if they had lenses to get the best results from the 32MP sensor without looking for third party lenses. If they do not care to expand the M series with lenses to go with the higher MP sensor, I guess that its all just marketing.


For any lens, 32mp is going to give you better results than 24mp.


----------



## mpb001 (Nov 19, 2019)

Cat_Interceptor said:


> I still dont quite understand this thought. The M6 II works perfectly with EF and EF-S with the adapter - the adapter isn't large and you don't have to get the big heavy EF glass...? There's good quality smaller and lighter that is very available. L style quality still gonna be big and heavy no matter the mount size too so... why not just use EF or EF-S?
> 
> Also there is simply zero performance minuses with the adapter. Autofocus still fast as native.
> 
> It really is a great camera. Just get the adapter and enjoy


The whole idea of M is small bodies. Small bodies should have small lenses. If I am going to use L glass its going to be on FF to get the best results. Thats just me.


----------



## mb66energy (Nov 19, 2019)

Etienne said:


> No M5 mk II.
> I'm pretty sick of being disappointed by Canon.


And if there comes a M1 sporting IBIS etc. ?


----------



## mb66energy (Nov 19, 2019)

Andy Westwood said:


> I’m not a big fan of the new M6 II surely it should have had a twisty screen like the M50. It’s a shame there will be no M5 II. I like my M5 with its built in EVF but would have liked to see an update with M50 type twisty screen but with M5 resolution and better AF. I will keep my M5 for now, it’s a fun holiday snapper / general purpose camera and lives in my camera bag as a backup. I just don’t see the M6 II as an update or replacement to the M5 maybe the M50II / M60 will be that camera in 2020 if it happens.


M50 with twisty screen and EVF is a joy to use - just give it one or more control rings and full sensor 4k with DPAF (120 fps FullHD and maybe 240 fps HD) and maybe a 3-stop simple IBIS and let it be 1000 bucks and it would be a perfect allrounder for me. Compact, not too expensive, bright IQ with EF-M 32, EF 70 200 f/4 L IS and both non-IS macros (EF-S and EF) ...


----------



## geffy (Nov 19, 2019)

m50 is a great camera, i would be happy with a mark 2 that has m5 build quality and yes it has a place as a money making travel camera


----------



## nchoh (Nov 19, 2019)

I have to say this; there is no way Canon will not release a M5 Mk II. To believe that is to believe that Canon will not take the M6II sensor, add a EVF and maybe change the buttons a bit an release another camera. They will. Will they call it the M5II or M4 or... who knows. But based on Canon's penchant for segmentation, I believe that an M5 replacement will be release in a year or 2. Likely, it's because of dropping camera sales that Canon is not pushing out so many new models at the same time but spacing them out over time.


----------



## windsorc (Nov 19, 2019)

Contracting market, more models than we need, what could go wrong?


----------



## slclick (Nov 19, 2019)

I'm curious if this will get up to a plausible CR2. Until then...


----------



## FramerMCB (Nov 19, 2019)

Even though as consumers we would like to continue to have a medium-to-large lineup of camera bodies, in a seriously shrinking market Canon has to decide where to spend a shrinking pool of money to develop and manufacture new bodies. Hence I believe one of the reasons that they decided to try and bridge the gap with the EOS 90D; the gap between their APS-C XXD and XD series. 

When a large group of consumers (probably a fair number of Pros, Semi-pros, and serious wildlife 'hobbyists') dearly wanted a 7D Mk III and others were wanting to move up in capabilities from the Rebel line but didn't want to have to replace all their EF-S glass then a replacement for the 80D would be the logical choice. 

Canon is in a tough spot (all the camera manufacturers are) in trying to decide what lines will continue and which will go the way of the Dodo bird. I can't see their end game and don't know how much their R&D (for Camera and Lens development) budget has shrunk and will continue to shrink. But it seems to me that they perhaps realized a little late that they needed to get in the FF mirrorless game. And so devoted some hefty resources to that development at the expense of a 7D Mk III. I don't have any way of knowing, but I think within Canon they had to make the hard decision to either move forward with the XXD line or the 7D line. They looked at the sales numbers combined with market research and realized if they could only move forward with one of those models at this time that it should be the 90D. So they upgraded the frame-rate, the autofocusing, and a few other areas - more than they would have than if they were just replacing the 80D/77D. 

I am waiting for them to make a quite refined, super-high-frame-rate APS-C mirrorless, with IBIS, a rugged build, and killer tracking focus. And a host of other features that one would expect in a wildlife/sports/action camera. Basically a mirrorless 7D Mk III - an EOS R7? Or 7R? ...? But we'll have to wait as Canon determines the market receptivity to the offerings they are already slated to launch.


----------



## privatebydesign (Nov 19, 2019)

windsorc said:


> Contracting market, more models than we need, what could go wrong?


Look at the history of the range of cameras Canon have made available in the lower levels of the EOS system, thy did that because at this level price is the determining factor and even a $50 price change will make a difference to these buyers, I expect Canon, who are extremely good at this kind of marketing, to do a similar thing with the M range if they are expecting the M to eventually replace their cash cow lower level EOS cameras.


----------



## Architect1776 (Nov 19, 2019)

Cat_Interceptor said:


> I still dont quite understand this thought. The M6 II works perfectly with EF and EF-S with the adapter - the adapter isn't large and you don't have to get the big heavy EF glass...? There's good quality smaller and lighter that is very available. L style quality still gonna be big and heavy no matter the mount size too so... why not just use EF or EF-S?
> 
> Also there is simply zero performance minuses with the adapter. Autofocus still fast as native.
> 
> It really is a great camera. Just get the adapter and enjoy


----------



## JoFT (Nov 19, 2019)

SteveCheetham said:


> Was that a 'The M6ii is replacing the M5 and M6 for now (until we finish developing the M5ii)' or 'We will definitely never develop an M5ii' ? I love my little M5, and would be interested in an M5ii with built in EVF, but don't want the M6ii with accessory EVF.


I agree: the attached EVF is not the best choice... love the M5 over the M6 package... But in total: the M6 is damned good!!!

On the other side.., I made more than 10k images on my M5 - which got replaced by the M6. It is a very handy camera and it delivers excellent images... It is by fare too good as an entry level system. 

But I do want to get more good glass. The zooms are ok, but a nice 50 and 85 f1.4 would be just awesome... tiny light and a bit affordable....


----------



## Architect1776 (Nov 19, 2019)

FramerMCB said:


> Even though as consumers we would like to continue to have a medium-to-large lineup of camera bodies, in a seriously shrinking market Canon has to decide where to spend a shrinking pool of money to develop and manufacture new bodies. Hence I believe one of the reasons that they decided to try and bridge the gap with the EOS 90D; the gap between their APS-C XXD and XD series.
> 
> When a large group of consumers (probably a fair number of Pros, Semi-pros, and serious wildlife 'hobbyists') dearly wanted a 7D Mk III and others were wanting to move up in capabilities from the Rebel line but didn't want to have to replace all their EF-S glass then a replacement for the 80D would be the logical choice.
> 
> ...



Canon Cameras and Lenses are marketing tools in and of themselves to sell other canon products. If you have a canon camera and are happy with the quality and performance then you might have a favorable view of the canon business product line. Or you see all those pros with those big white lenses on the sidelines again you as an executive or commercial purchaser would possibly have a favorable view of reliability of Canon.
The camera products are a way to advertise the brand in a very positive way.


----------



## koch1948 (Nov 19, 2019)

john kriegsmann said:


> I thought long and hard about buying and M50. Biggest problem is lack of native lenses. M series is so small that ef/es lenses are too large to use with it by adapter. I purchased a Canon RP full frame. Very happy with its performance and size. My canon prime lenses -50 and 85- work beautifully with adapter and I purchased an inexpensive RF 35 mm 1.8 IS native lens. All the other new RF lenses are heavy and expensive fast primes f 1.2 glass which IMO is gouging the market. Hopefully Canon will eventually produce a series of RF primes with an aperture of 1.8 or 2.


That is an excellent idea purchasing the EOS RP full frame instead of the EOS M series. However, I prefer spacing camera bodies by dimensions and weight as one of my major factors in determining camera systems. That is why I am sticking with the EOS M5 for my lightest weight camera body, the EOS R for medium weight, and the EOS-1D X Mark II for heaviest weight. Depending upon the situation, I can plan in advance what size camera body and lens I will need for the photo shoot.


----------



## nchoh (Nov 19, 2019)

windsorc said:


> Contracting market, more models than we need, what could go wrong?



Weaker camera manufacturers like Olympus or non-core companies like Sony will exit the market and supply will better match demand.


----------



## unfocused (Nov 19, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Look at the history of the range of cameras Canon have made available in the lower levels of the EOS system, thy did that because at this level price is the determining factor and even a $50 price change will make a difference to these buyers, I expect Canon, who are extremely good at this kind of marketing, to do a similar thing with the M range if they are expecting the M to eventually replace their cash cow lower level EOS cameras.


This. Plus, we don't know what the incremental costs to Canon are to produce multiple versions of similar bodies. I suspect it's not very much and that Canon has a pretty good idea of both how many they need to sell and what it costs for each additional version and carefully balances the two.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Nov 19, 2019)

nchoh said:


> Weaker camera manufacturers like Olympus or non-core companies like Sony will exit the market and supply will better match demand.



Everyone in the industry but Canon could go under, and I don't think it would be enough to stop what's coming, perhaps delay it a few years.


----------



## Marius Schamschula (Nov 20, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> So much low end action
> I am jealous waiting for the high end mirrorless options. The rf lenses look great but we just need the following popular bodies as an RF
> 
> 7d mark
> ...



Particularly the 7D. I skipped the 7D mark II and am looking to replace my well worn 7D with something more modern.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Nov 20, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> If Canon isn’t planning on making any M lenses to obtain the best results from the 32 MP sensor in the M series in particular, I don’t understand why they bothered to install it in the M6II.
> 
> i am a Canon FF user, but would consider the M6II if they had lenses to get the best results from the 32MP sensor without looking for third party lenses. If they do not care to expand the M series with lenses to go with the higher MP sensor, I guess that its all just marketing.



1. the final 32MP image will still have more detail than a 24MP sensor with the same lens that's a plus
2. some sharp EF and EF-M lenses will be able to resolve 32MP, so another plus over lower resolution sensor
3. works great for marketing, 32 sounds a lot better than 24 for the competition, especially for non-experts


----------



## jtf (Nov 20, 2019)

Marius Schamschula said:


> Particularly the 7D. I skipped the 7D mark II and am looking to replace my well worn 7D with something more modern.



I skipped the 7DII as well and still have my 7D that is rarely used these days. I've been using the M5 and R for literally all my shooting but I would love a ML 7D type body. Hard to imagine it coming from the M line, more than likely an R.


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 20, 2019)

JoFT said:


> I agree: the attached EVF is not the best choice... love the M5 over the M6 package... But in total: the M6 is damned good!!!
> 
> On the other side.., I made more than 10k images on my M5 - which got replaced by the M6. It is a very handy camera and it delivers excellent images... It is by fare too good as an entry level system.
> 
> But I do want to get more good glass. The zooms are ok, but a nice 50 and 85 f1.4 would be just awesome... tiny light and a bit affordable....



The M6 falls flat on its face if you need an eye level viewfinder and a hot shoe to control external flashes. You can have one or the other, but you can't have both at the same time with the M6.


----------



## jeanluc (Nov 20, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> So much low end action
> I am jealous waiting for the high end mirrorless options. The rf lenses look great but we just need the following popular bodies as an RF
> 
> 7d mark
> ...


Well, for some of us who mainly shoot landscapes it is. 

In fact, I do not shoot sports or wildlife for a living, so I don't need a 6K 1D body and my 7D body sat in a drawer most of the time. And if you actually shoot the EOS R, you will see it IS functionally a "5D" body, only better. IMHO, all it needs is a little better weather sealing, next get sensor and a few minor ergonomic fixes and we are good to go.

Not sure of sales figures for the 5DSR, but I bet they sold more of those than 1DX II's just given the target market and price. Then again, maybe not...


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Nov 20, 2019)

I don't even need a viewfinder, 99% of time I don't use use it in landscape photography. Something like M6 but FF would be very nice to have, but Canon doesn't offer anything like that unfortunately. I was seriously thinking about getting an M6 but decided to wait for the promised high res R camera.


----------



## Wizardly (Nov 20, 2019)

canonnews said:


> "The EOS M5 isn’t going to get a Mark II version according to Canon "
> 
> To be accurate, Canon never stated this - Canon USA (and USA only) stated that the M6 Mark II effectively replaces the M5 and M6.



Too bad. M6 was a non-starter for me. M5 replacement would have opened my wallet. For me, the camera ***must*** have an integrated viewfinder.


----------



## SteveC (Nov 20, 2019)

Wizardly said:


> Too bad. M6 was a non-starter for me. M5 replacement would have opened my wallet. For me, the camera ***must*** have an integrated viewfinder.



It's not quite a "must" for me, but I definitely understand this. I have a hard time understanding this decision by Canon (unless, it's in the pipeline and we just don't know about it yet).

Another one that makes me scratch my head is why the M50 has the full-blown flippy screen yet the M6II doesn't. (If anything it should be the other way around.) I'd really like that (but it's not an absolute deal breaker) if nothing else so that I can protect the screen.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 20, 2019)

As a hapyy M5 Owner I hope that there will be a successor with built in EVF and with an articulating screen some time in the future. I'm not in a hurry at all to update my M5. Sure, the M6II spec sheet is tempting (and i think I could rethink the buitl-in EVF), but I do not need the high frames/s and the improved video specs at all. So I can easily wait another year or even two and see what will come from Canon. Normally I do skip at least one generation because most of the time I can't justify the direct successor for my kind of photography. But the new sensor tech in the M6II could be enough for a justification. If there won't be a M5II within the next one or one and a half years, I can imagine to get a M6II (perhaps a used one).

Frank


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Nov 21, 2019)

jeanluc said:


> Well, for some of us who mainly shoot landscapes it is.
> 
> In fact, I do not shoot sports or wildlife for a living, so I don't need a 6K 1D body and my 7D body sat in a drawer most of the time. And if you actually shoot the EOS R, you will see it IS functionally a "5D" body, only better. IMHO, all it needs is a little better weather sealing, next get sensor and a few minor ergonomic fixes and we are good to go.
> 
> Not sure of sales figures for the 5DSR, but I bet they sold more of those than 1DX II's just given the target market and price. Then again, maybe not...



I wish we model specific sales data but the best that’s available is when websites rank the sales of their canon cameras
The 5dsr does not rank well but this could be for several reasons and I admit this proxy is not complete data. Canons cheaper cameras are their sales leaders.

but I do stand bye the holy trinity of professional canon cameras historically being the 1D, 5D Mark, and 7d. The 5dsr has not broken into that trinity. But with RF things will probably change. It’s not clear how the new models will be positioned.


----------



## Cat_Interceptor (Nov 21, 2019)

I would have rather the M6 II have a flippy screen but I'm not really that troubled with what it has.

Built in EVF? I'm not too fussed there, I find the removable advantageous occasionally.

Okay look there is no doubt in my mind the M6 II is actually supposed to be a "Hey this is what's coming" kind of camera to show that yes, Canon is taking mirrorless seriously and to maybe even get sales while we wait for the actual camera we want from Canon. I think the M6 II is simply worth it to learn how mirrorless really works - I'm waiting for real replacement to the 7D II and I suspect it'll be in RF.

And yeah okay it's not the camera I want but..... you know what? It's a bloody good thing.

Proof is pixel peep this link - straight out of the camera, no adjustments, no cropping. 100-400 II / M6 II. Handheld, I was panning fairly quickly. 



http://alliancemotorsport.org/newgallery/upload/2019/11/21/20191121003231-b0cc93c1.jpg



It's not the perfect shot by any means but look at the detail the sensor can do. Borrow one, try it out. Sure it's prolly for most going to be a stop gap till the R line has more in it but it's worth it and it'll be a great backup.


----------



## Dragon (Nov 21, 2019)

IcyBergs said:


> I agree its an entry level system - a gateway to a future mount for the novices, and to the serious amateur or professional its a smaller kit for leisure time or travel (have it on me all the time camera). In my opinion that is the only logical explanation for why we haven't seen a more broad lens offering than what's already available.
> 
> I'm in the market to grab a 2nd hand M50, and must say I'm not really concerned about lens selection. I would only want the 22 f/2, and essentially use it as a compact fixed lens 35mm equivalent camera (albeit with the option to change lenses, should circumstances change - unlike the fuji x100 series etc). That's just me, but I have a feeling Canon is telling a M series owner or prospective owner that if you want more native lens selection then move up to RF.
> 
> At the moment it is pretty obvious that Canon is not "serious" about APS-C.


It depends on what you mean by serious. If serious means making their M (for mobile) system into something tor folks who carry around a steamer trunk full of lenses, then I agree. If serious means selling a lot of cameras to folks who want to take a really good camera along that is small enough to carry most anywhere, then, I would say they are quite serious. Most people only carry one lens when traveling and at the most two (a zoom and something fast). For me, that would be the 18-150 and either the 22 or 32. I might well eschew the prime (or take the tiny 22)and take the 11-22 instead because it is such a great lens and so often useful. BTW, I have almost all the M lenses and do use them when nearby. Also have the Viltrox speed booster and note that it works quite well with both the nifty 50 and the 40mm pancake and those are both very portable combinations.


----------



## IcyBergs (Nov 21, 2019)

Dragon said:


> It depends on what you mean by serious. If serious means making their M (for mobile) system into something tor folks who carry around a steamer trunk full of lenses, then I agree. If serious means selling a lot of cameras to folks who want to take a really good camera along that is small enough to carry most anywhere, then, I would say they are quite serious. Most people only carry one lens when traveling and at the most two (a zoom and something fast). For me, that would be the 18-150 and either the 22 or 32. I might well eschew the prime (or take the tiny 22)and take the 11-22 instead because it is such a great lens and so often useful. BTW, I have almost all the M lenses and do use them when nearby. Also have the Viltrox speed booster and note that it works quite well with both the nifty 50 and the 40mm pancake and those are both very portable combinations.



Seems like we're of the same opinion. The post you quoted was in response to the opinion that Canon should do more with the M lens selection, and in so doing would signify that they were "serious" - I don't believe that is their intentions at all. The M line of products serves a very specific purpose which you effectively stated...being mobile. 

There will be compromises for a system that is focused on maintaining portability as one of it's primary selling points. If someone is looking for 2.8 zooms and fast long primes than you might as well adapt an EF lens because a hypothetical M equivalent would be heavy and unbalanced anyway.

I'm looking forward to owning an M, I've gotten enough of an opportunity to tinker around with them that I think it'll be a great addition. Hopefully I'll find a nice deal on one here soon with all the holiday sales coming up.


----------



## privatebydesign (Nov 21, 2019)

This is why I love my M5. I couldn't give a darn about big fancy and expensive lenses for it, that is not what I own it for and I expect that is not the kind of customer for whom Canon make it.


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 22, 2019)

Marius Schamschula said:


> Particularly the 7D. I skipped the 7D mark II and am looking to replace my well worn 7D with something more modern.



The 7D Mark II was, at least for what I do, a significant upgrade over the original 7D. Since I shoot a lot of sports/action under flickering lighting, the flicker reduction feature was worth the price of the body for me. Having the shutter release at the peak in the lights' AC cycle meant I could shoot 1/2-2/3 stops faster and get brighter, more color consistent pictures in the same facilities as before with the 7D!

The AF system is also more consistent from shot to shot. The 19-pt AF system in the 7D was nicely configurable, but didn't perform very consistently from shot-to-shot. Almost half the frames in a ten shot burst might be slightly front-focused and almost half of them slightly back-focused with only a couple of frames dead on. The 7D mark II got an AF system that was on par with the 1D X and 5D Mark III.

My images from the 7D Mark II at ISO 3200 are also much cleaner than ISO 3200 images from my 7d, though I am beginning to suspect the sensor in my 7D may have been less than optimal for whatever reason.


----------



## canonmike (Nov 24, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> The whole idea of M is small bodies. Small bodies should have small lenses. If I am going to use L glass its going to be on FF to get the best results. Thats just me.


I have to, at least somewhat concur with your small body should have small lens comment. I guess that's why the 22mm M mount lens on any of the M bodies is such a popular combo. Such a small form factor in a small pkg that still takes reasonably good photos, while offering extreme, easy portability. A couple of yrs ago, I decided to invest in Sigma's 18-35 F1.8 Art lens for my M50. It's a mostly capable lens, when it works properly but is a huge and heavy lens, especially knowing you have to add the M adapter, somewhat negating the "compact" advantage of the M series body.


----------



## canonmike (Nov 24, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> This is why I love my M5. I couldn't give a darn about big fancy and expensive lenses for it, that is not what I own it for and I expect that is not the kind of customer for whom Canon make it.
> View attachment 187583


Perfectly said.


----------



## OneSnark (Nov 24, 2019)

canonmike said:


> I have to, at least somewhat concur with your small body should have small lens comment. I guess that's why the 22mm M mount lens on any of the M bodies is such a popular combo. Such a small form factor in a small pkg that still takes reasonably good photos, while offering extreme, easy portability. A couple of yrs ago, I decided to invest in Sigma's 18-35 F1.8 Art lens for my M50. It's a mostly capable lens, when it works properly but is a huge and heavy lens, especially knowing you have to add the M adapter, somewhat negating the "compact" advantage of the M series body.



TRUTH.

I do see the attractiveness of the "M" series. . . but the lens selection is definitely a sticking point with me.
Sure, one can stick EF lenses on these puppies. . .but that sort of defeats the point of these cameras? Sure, using EF for special occasions where you can bring the "sack of lenses" is fine. . . but for day-to-day use you want small and native.

While I don't insist on F2.8 lenses. . . . . . .the "M" zooms are awfully slow. A decent 24-100 F4 for day to day use would be ideal for me. 
Fast "M" primes are nice. . .but as a "travel rig", where sneaker zoom doesn't always work, zooms are critical.

- - - - -
to add to what some others have said; one cannot help but notice the similarity of the M6-II and 90D. That is smart development; the same tech being placed in two product lines. Funny how the 90D is universally panned because it is a mirror-slapping dinosaur.


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 24, 2019)

OneSnark said:


> TRUTH.
> 
> I do see the attractiveness of the "M" series. . . but the lens selection is definitely a sticking point with me.
> Sure, one can stick EF lenses on these puppies. . .but that sort of defeats the point of these cameras? Sure, using EF for special occasions where you can bring the "sack of lenses" is fine. . . but for day-to-day use you want small and native.
> ...



The 90D will be just like the 6D Mark II and 5D Mark III/IV: Panned by those who judge them strictly on the basis of their spec sheet while loved by those who actually use them to produce outstanding images.


----------



## Joules (Nov 24, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> The 90D will be just like the 6D Mark II and 5D Mark III/IV: Panned by those who judge them strictly on the basis of their spec sheet while loved by those who actually use them to produce outstanding images.


Even strictly by the spec sheet, the 90D is a huge upgrade over its predecessor. And unlike with the 6D II, I don't think it has anything that you could point at and cry "crippled!!1".

With the direction these most recent Canon bodies took, it simply looks like the "*******!" folks will be running out of points to critizise soon.


----------



## OneSnark (Nov 24, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> The 90D will be just like the 6D Mark II and 5D Mark III/IV: Panned by those who judge them strictly on the basis of their spec sheet while loved by those who actually use them to produce outstanding images.





Joules said:


> Even strictly by the spec sheet, the 90D is a huge upgrade over its predecessor. And unlike with the 6D II, I don't think it has anything that you could point at and cry "crippled!!1".
> 
> With the direction these most recent Canon bodies took, it simply looks like the "*******!" folks will be running out of points to critizise soon.



I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative. 

- - - - - - -

My understanding is that the 90D in live-view mode is essentially a MK6-II with a built in EF adapter mount?


----------



## slclick (Nov 24, 2019)

OneSnark said:


> I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
> Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative.
> 
> - - - - - - -
> ...


There is only hate if you read divisive websites such as DPR along with Tony and other YouTube influencers. It is not universally panned, that just sounds great in a CR forum post. Such BS. Michael hit the nail on the head.


----------



## Dragon (Nov 24, 2019)

IcyBergs said:


> Seems like we're of the same opinion. The post you quoted was in response to the opinion that Canon should do more with the M lens selection, and in so doing would signify that they were "serious" - I don't believe that is their intentions at all. The M line of products serves a very specific purpose which you effectively stated...being mobile.
> 
> There will be compromises for a system that is focused on maintaining portability as one of it's primary selling points. If someone is looking for 2.8 zooms and fast long primes than you might as well adapt an EF lens because a hypothetical M equivalent would be heavy and unbalanced anyway.
> 
> I'm looking forward to owning an M, I've gotten enough of an opportunity to tinker around with them that I think it'll be a great addition. Hopefully I'll find a nice deal on one here soon with all the holiday sales coming up.


Check the refurbished section at the Canon store. I got a great deal on an M5 there about 6 months ago. If you want a deal on an m6 II, you may have to wait a few months, but M6 mk I is very cheap right now in the refurb section. I have never gotten anything from Canon Refurb that wasn't essentially new, so their deals are real.


----------



## koenkooi (Nov 24, 2019)

OneSnark said:


> I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
> Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative.
> 
> - - - - - - -
> ...



As I understand it, the 90D has an extra 4k mode where it crops 1.2x and then downsamples. The regular 4k mode that it shares with the M6II does column skipping and then upscales the 3.5k image to 4k. It is said they M6II doesn't have it because it can't dissipate the heat generated by it, while the 90D can.

I don't have a 90D, so I can't confirm the above, so grain of salt, etc.


----------



## Dragon (Nov 25, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> As I understand it, the 90D has an extra 4k mode where it crops 1.2x and then downsamples. The regular 4k mode that it shares with the M6II does column skipping and then upscales the 3.5k image to 4k. It is said they M6II doesn't have it because it can't dissipate the heat generated by it, while the 90D can.
> 
> I don't have a 90D, so I can't confirm the above, so grain of salt, etc.


I do have a 90D and your understanding is correct. The 4k Crop mode is quite good. Very sharp and very little aliasing. The other huge improvement over previous models is the 1080 quality is very good. It drops just a bit a 60P, but sill very sharp. I suspect the M6 II battery wasn't up to the 6k-4k down conversion. We may see that feature in a future M5 II with the next generation of Digic that is slated to debut on the 1DX III. Hard to tell if the Digic is a custom IC or just a customized FPGA (probably the latter), but they do move forward with process nodes and thus use less power to do more as time goes by. I would like to see one feature return from the 70D. It has a video mode that just scans the center 1080x1920 area for about a 3x zoom. The mode is a bit crippled with no AF, but still useful at times. A center 4k scan on the M6 II and 90D would produce good quality (with a sharp lens) and offer another level of "digital zoom". It is a feature that could be added with a firmware upgrade.


----------



## IcyBergs (Nov 25, 2019)

Dragon said:


> Check the refurbished section at the Canon store. I got a great deal on an M5 there about 6 months ago. If you want a deal on an m6 II, you may have to wait a few months, but M6 mk I is very cheap right now in the refurb section. I have never gotten anything from Canon Refurb that wasn't essentially new, so their deals are real.



I'm actually targeting the M50, M6ii will be hard to find a deal on, and its a bit overkill for my intended use - also no EVF. Versus the M5 I lose a couple of dials, but I gain the digic 8, full flip screen, and should be able to score a good deal on one. I'll keep my eye on the canon refurbs...thanks.


----------



## Rocky (Nov 25, 2019)

IcyBergs said:


> I'm actually targeting the M50, M6ii will be hard to find a deal on, and its a bit overkill for my intended use - also no EVF. Versus the M5 I lose a couple of dials, but I gain the digic 8, full flip screen, and should be able to score a good deal on one. I'll keep my eye on the canon refurbs...thanks.


Canon is selling it for $599 now, with 15-45 lens. It is a perfect walk around kit


----------



## SteveC (Nov 25, 2019)

OneSnark said:


> TRUTH.
> 
> I do see the attractiveness of the "M" series. . . but the lens selection is definitely a sticking point with me.
> Sure, one can stick EF lenses on these puppies. . .but that sort of defeats the point of these cameras? Sure, using EF for special occasions where you can bring the "sack of lenses" is fine. . . but for day-to-day use you want small and native.
> ...



I think it would be nice to have options--a _slightly_ fatter and/or longer M lens, to get a faster zoom wouldn't invalidate the portability of what's already out there. However, it appears Canon marketing won't cross that line for whatever reason.

Where Canon will not do, third parties will. (The slightly fatter Tamron 18-200 iii obviates for me the "need" for the 18-150.)

The M6-II is such a huge leap over prior cameras that it's simply untrue right now to argue that THE reason to get one is the small size and portability. Hence the people who want the feature set of the M6-II AND some higher-end lenses. Well, we at least have access to all of EF and EF-S via an adapter, though those are a bit of a pain to do a lens change on. (You are expected to remove the lens PLUS ADAPTER from the camera, then move the adapter to the new lens, then put the new lens, plus adapter, onto the camera body, turning a two step process into a four step process unless you own multiple adapters.)


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 26, 2019)

OneSnark said:


> I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
> Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative.
> 
> - - - - - - -
> ...



From my perspective (which may not be what "most" folks' is), the "hate" for the 90D is simply because they couldn't give it a 7D Mark II level AF system and build quality and call it the 7D Mark III, even if it caused the price to be $300-400 higher.

I'd gladly give $300-400 more for a body with the same sensor and should last me twice as long as a 90D.


----------



## Michael Clark (Nov 26, 2019)

Joules said:


> Even strictly by the spec sheet, the 90D is a huge upgrade over its predecessor. And unlike with the 6D II, I don't think it has anything that you could point at and cry "crippled!!1".
> 
> With the direction these most recent Canon bodies took, it simply looks like the "*******!" folks will be running out of points to critizise soon.



Some would say a 120,000 shutter rating is "crippled" when compared to the 7D Mark II and Nikon D500 that are rated at 200,000. I know one guy (who shoots far more frames than I do at some of the same sporting events, and I sometimes exceed 2,000) who has worn out 3 shutters on 7D mark IIs. Based on the law of averages, those four 7D Mark II bodies (he's now working on wearing out his fourth - he doesn't even bother to get a quote on replacing the shutter instead of the entire body) would be the equivalent of 6-7 90D bodies.


----------



## privatebydesign (Nov 27, 2019)

My mother-in-law was asking about cameras the other day, she enjoys taking pictures (not video), most frequently with her phone as she considers her Rebel too big to take most of the time.

I showed her this unremarkable image from an evening at Disney and she was sold. There is no comparison to phone images for occasions like this, the iso, DR and AF performance are in a different league.


----------



## Daner (Dec 5, 2019)

Understanding that Canon has said that there will be no EOS M5 Mk II, it seems to me that "parts bin engineering" could make another approach possible. They could put the sensor and lens mount from the M6 Mk II in an EOS R body.

Pros as compared to EOS M6 Mk II: Built-in EVF. Better battery life and compatibility with a wide range of higher-end models. Better handling for larger hands and larger EF-S and EF lenses. More versatile flippy screen instead of just a tilty one. Compatibility with EOS R accessories (battery grip, etc.). Access to the hot shoe not limited by use of EVF.

Cons as compared to EOS M6 Mk II: Larger. Heavier. More expensive.

Differences as compared to EOS R: Slightly better resolution. Considerably higher fps. Native access to EF-M lenses. Adapted access (with full resolution) to EF-S lenses. Differently adapted access to EF lenses. No access to RF lenses.

Of course, if they really want to shake things up (or rather, reduce the amount of shaking), they could use the extra space from the smaller sensor to include IBIS. That is not likely to happen until IBIS becomes available at the high end (1D series and some upcoming R model), but at that point there would be nothing from a technical or marketing perspective that would make it impossible.


----------



## Dragon (Dec 5, 2019)

Daner said:


> Understanding that Canon has said that there will be no EOS M5 Mk II, it seems to me that "parts bin engineering" could make another approach possible. They could put the sensor and lens mount from the M6 Mk II in an EOS R body.
> 
> Pros as compared to EOS M6 Mk II: Built-in EVF. Better battery life and compatibility with a wide range of higher-end models. Better handling for larger hands and larger EF-S and EF lenses. More versatile flippy screen instead of just a tilty one. Compatibility with EOS R accessories (battery grip, etc.)
> 
> ...


I think it is a bit of overstatement to say that "Canon" has said there will be no M5 II. One US Canon rep suggested there wouldn't be and in the next breath said the M5 is the top of the M line. I can't find anywhere else in the world that a Canon rep has denied the possibility of an M5 II. It is quite possible that the US rep simply mean there was no M5 II in the immediate future. That said, numbers are cheap, so who knows what will transpire with time and a lower power Digic 9. The M6 II is clearly crippled by the power consumption of the Digic 8 (no 4k crop mode), so there will be future opportunities for new models.


----------



## SteveC (Dec 5, 2019)

Dragon said:


> I think it is a bit of overstatement to say that "Canon" has said there will be no M5 II. One US Canon rep suggested there wouldn't be and in the next breath said the M5 is the top of the M line. I can't find anywhere else in the world that a Canon rep has denied the possibility of an M5 II. It is quite possible that the US rep simply mean there was no M5 II in the immediate future. That said, numbers are cheap, so who knows what will transpire with time and a lower power Digic 9. The M6 II is clearly crippled by the power consumption of the Digic 8 (no 4k crop mode), so there will be future opportunities for new models.




Actually, if I recall correctly, that US rep simply said "The M6 mkII replaces the M5 and M6." And I had a rep say the same thing to me.

"Replace" does not mean "there will never be an M5 mk II" just that, as far as they're concerned, you should buy an M6 mk II to replace either your M5 or M6; it supersedes both models. (I disagree, but what I think about whether the M6 mk II is truly a replacement for an M5 is immaterial; the question is what Canon or its reps has said.)

This was, however, enough for DPReview to proclaim that there will never be an M5 mk II, and THAT, in turn, has been enough for people to take it as gospel. 

Amazing how ONE misunderstanding just gets perpetuated.


----------



## Dragon (Dec 5, 2019)

SteveC said:


> Actually, if I recall correctly, that US rep simply said "The M6 mkII replaces the M5 and M6." And I had a rep say the same thing to me.
> 
> "Replace" does not mean "there will never be an M5 mk II" just that, as far as they're concerned, you should buy an M6 mk II to replace either your M5 or M6; it supersedes both models. (I disagree, but what I think about whether the M6 mk II is truly a replacement for an M5 is immaterial; the question is what Canon or its reps has said.)
> 
> ...


That sums it up nicely.


----------



## Joules (Dec 5, 2019)

SteveC said:


> Amazing how ONE misunderstanding just gets perpetuated.


It's not just some Canon guy though, we also have some unofficial sources claiming the same thing:






Two new EOS M cameras rumoured to be coming in 2020 [CR1]


2020 is shaping up as a big year for new product announcements from Canon, especially on the prosumer and professional fronts. The EOS M lineup will likely see at least one new model as well, as the EOS M50 will likely need a successor. This rumor is being floated by a site that doesn’t source...




www.canonrumors.com





Canon also hasn't said that there won't be a 7D III, yet that seems to be broadly accepted at this point. As long as Canon don't have a better Camera on the market that you can purchase instead, they won't confirm these kinds of thing.


----------



## SteveC (Dec 5, 2019)

Joules said:


> It's not just some Canon guy though, we also have some unofficial sources claiming the same thing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's an awful long step between that and "Canon has said that..." though.

I finally gave up, and bought an M6-II about a week and a half ago.


----------



## Dragon (Dec 6, 2019)

SteveC said:


> There's an awful long step between that and "Canon has said that..." though.
> 
> I finally gave up, and bought an M6-II about a week and a half ago.


I kept my M5 (which I really like) and bought the 90D for the better video (there is a big difference in the video in the crop mode). I will give the 70D to a deserving offspring and then wait to see what happens next. An Rs at 75 to 80 MP would be a tempting replacement for the 5DSr, but still not convinced that live view AF can catch BIFs the way SLR AF does. The big problem is just finding the bird with the EVF lag. A red dot mounted on the hot shoe may be the answer. That even works well on the 5DSr.


----------



## Michael Clark (Dec 9, 2019)

SteveC said:


> Actually, if I recall correctly, that US rep simply said "The M6 mkII replaces the M5 and M6." And I had a rep say the same thing to me.
> 
> "Replace" does not mean "there will never be an M5 mk II" just that, as far as they're concerned, you should buy an M6 mk II to replace either your M5 or M6; it supersedes both models. (I disagree, but what I think about whether the M6 mk II is truly a replacement for an M5 is immaterial; the question is what Canon or its reps has said.)
> 
> ...



If I recall correctly, Canon representatives said an almost identical thing that the "EOS 1D X replaces both the EOS 1D Mark IV and the EOS 1Ds Mark III." I hope no one is still holding their breath for an APS-H 1D Mark V.


----------



## flip314 (Dec 9, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> If I recall correctly, Canon representatives said an almost identical thing that the "EOS 1D X replaces both the EOS 1D Mark IV and the EOS 1Ds Mark III." I hope no one is still holding their breath for an APS-H 1D Mark V.



I dunno, the suggestion for Canon to make an APS-H camera seems to come up in every other rumors thread (even if not for 1D-level cameras)...


----------



## Michael Clark (Dec 11, 2019)

flip314 said:


> I dunno, the suggestion for Canon to make an APS-H camera seems to come up in every other rumors thread (even if not for 1D-level cameras)...



Maybe so, but those who have been holding their breath until they actually get one from Canon have long since expired due to asphyxiation.


----------



## gouldopfl (Dec 28, 2019)

canonnews said:


> "The EOS M5 isn’t going to get a Mark II version according to Canon "
> 
> To be accurate, Canon never stated this - Canon USA (and USA only) stated that the M6 Mark II effectively replaces the M5 and M6.


I don't believe APC is dead. While I am looking forward to a new EOS R, for all my indoor macro work I am still using an 80d and I don't see that changing any time soon. I find the 80d still produces very good pictures overall.


----------



## SteveC (Dec 29, 2019)

gouldopfl said:


> I don't believe APC is dead. While I am looking forward to a new EOS R, for all my indoor macro work I am still using an 80d and I don't see that changing any time soon. I find the 80d still produces very good pictures overall.



I don't believe anyone thinks APS-C is dead. (If you meant something else by "APC" then I apologize for this derail, please just ignore it.)

Some, apparently, think the EF-M mount (that happens to use APS-C) is dead, but that just makes no sense to me. The M6-II is probably the most technologically advanced camera Canon is making, and it's EF-M, furthermore the M50 is one of the best selling cameras in the world.

The 90D is close to the 6 D in sophistication, and it's APS-C SLR, so while I suspect that ten years from now Canon SLRs (of whatever sensor size) will be less common than Canon mirrorless cameras, it's hardly "dead" now, and can't possibly die in any case until the EF mount is no longer supported.


----------



## Don Haines (Dec 29, 2019)

gouldopfl said:


> I don't believe APC is dead. While I am looking forward to a new EOS R, for all my indoor macro work I am still using an 80d and I don't see that changing any time soon. I find the 80d still produces very good pictures overall.


No way is APS-C dead. The M lines are thriving and meet a need that no FF camera can fill.

if you look at what Canon sells, you see tiny bodies and lots of F6.3 lenses. Small and low cost! It does not matter what Canon does with their FF cameras, mirrorless or mirrored, they will never be that small, nor that low cost.

as far as rebels and XXD cameras go, they are getting sandwiched between the two lines... I doubt that any of us (or even Canon) knows.... it will all depend on sales and profit. If they are profitable they will continue. If not, expect the, to slowly die out


----------

