# Some Conflicting EOS-1D X Mark II Specifications [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 28, 2016)

```
The following information comes from a very well known source, who has been correct about 80% of the time. The resolution information about the upcoming EOS-1D X Mark II contradicts what we were previously told.</p>
<p>Specifications (Italics are a direct quote):</p>
<ul>
<li>20.2mp sensor (We messed up and screwed up a translation and reported 22mp, instead of 20.2mp.)</li>
<li><em>“Some sort of a built in AA filter removal function. User can choose to have AA on or off, not too sure how that works.”</em></li>
<li>Improved dynamic range, but still won’t match the Sony sensors.</li>
<li><em>“Specifications may not be perceived as exciting as the Nikon D5.”</em></li>
</ul>
<p>Leaks for this camera have been extremely hard to come by.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


----------



## emko (Jan 28, 2016)

Yea didn't expect much from Canon, one day they will wake up


----------



## In-The-Dark (Jan 28, 2016)

There's still hope . . . . . at least until the confirmed specs are announced.


----------



## frankchn (Jan 28, 2016)

I didn't think the Nikon D5 specifications were that exciting to be honest. Basically the Nikon D5 has 12 fps @ 20 mp, improved AF system, better DR / high ISO performance, 3 minute 4K video and (optionally) XQD.

I assume Canon will launch 1DX II with 12 fps+ @ 20-22 mp, improved AF system, better DR/high ISO, some amount of 4K video (they already have the technology from the 1Dc, might as well throw it in) and CFast. Looks pretty similar to me.

Not sure why they have a AA filter removal function though, I don't think AA filters are a problem until you get to the 36mp+ cameras. At least I haven't heard any clamoring for an AA-less 20 megapixel FF camera. I would think that is more appropriate in a future 5Ds release than a 1D series camera.


----------



## tron (Jan 29, 2016)

Not an expert but I do not believe that an OPTICAL AA filter can be set on and off. This seems more difficult than a 15 stop Canon sensor! Who exactly is the source of that info? Also 22Mp seems more likely....


----------



## kevl (Jan 29, 2016)

Being able to enable or disable the AA filter is a great idea. Especially since Canon puts AA filters in and then defeats them with software anyway. 

The 1DX is already an amazing camera. The Nikon D5 sounds like a good camera, but Canon is not losing out to Nikon in that range of bodies. It is the 5D & 70D Canon customers who are switching to Nikon. That's where Canon can't afford an evolutionary product this year.


----------



## Frage (Jan 29, 2016)

Maybe the 1DX II is just a 1DC with a new batch ;D


----------



## blackbox (Jan 29, 2016)

4 years and not too many improvements?? I don't believe it


----------



## frankchn (Jan 29, 2016)

blackbox said:


> 4 years and not too many improvements?? I don't believe it



Well, what is there to improve? The 1DX II is definitely going to have better DR/ISO/AF/video (4K), but everything else seems fine -- nothing major seems to be wrong with the 1D X as is.

Remember, Nikon just got to 12 fps with AE/AF with the D5, so Canon doesn't even have to change the mirror box or shutter mechanisms.

Also, if they just throw in the 1Dc's video mode into the 1DX II, then they instantly have a better 4K video shooter than the D5. The 1Dc captures DCI 4K (4096x2160) but the D5 only does UHD 4K (3840x2160).


----------



## tpatana (Jan 29, 2016)

If 4k is only thing it improves, I'm keeping my Mk1. (well, keeping it anyway...)


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 29, 2016)

blackbox said:


> 4 years and not too many improvements?? I don't believe it


If have 20 megapixel "only", this is a consistent improvement to the intended use:
Journalism, and other low-light situations.

I never heard a user complaining that 18 megapixel is insufficient in a 1DX. On the other hand, the line users 5D, wait at least 24 megapixel in the future 5D Mark iv.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 29, 2016)

kevl said:


> Being able to enable or disable the AA filter is a great idea. Especially since Canon puts AA filters in and then defeats them with software anyway.



Hobbul bobbal schnarffle zurp! IOW, WTF?!?




kevl said:


> It is the 5D & 70D Canon customers who are switching to Nikon. That's where Canon can't afford an evolutionary product this year.



Anecdotes ≠ data. The most recently available data show Canon gaining market share and Nikon losing it.


----------



## gunship01 (Jan 29, 2016)

Lmao! At this point, whatever. Whenever canon announces it, it still won't ship for a few months and then we'll truly know what the specs are. Until then, meh.


----------



## Click (Jan 29, 2016)

tpatana said:


> If 4k is only thing it improves, I'm keeping my Mk1. (well, keeping it anyway...)



+1


----------



## takesome1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> <li><em>“Specifications may not be perceived as exciting as the Nikon D5.”</em></li>



That is an easy prediction.

I have one. 

The new camera's body color will be black.


----------



## wildbirdimages (Jan 29, 2016)

frankchn said:


> I didn't think the Nikon D5 specifications were that exciting to be honest. Basically the Nikon D5 has 12 fps @ 20 mp, improved AF system, better DR / high ISO performance, 3 minute 4K video and (optionally) XQD.
> True especially since Canon already had 12fps 4 years ago. The biggest unknown so far is how well the new AF works and to some extend how much better high ISO is.
> 
> I assume Canon will launch 1DX II with 12 fps+ @ 20-22 mp, improved AF system, better DR/high ISO, some amount of 4K video (they already have the technology from the 1Dc, might as well throw it in) and CFast. Looks pretty similar to me.
> ...


----------



## Gino (Jan 29, 2016)

I just sold my 1DX in anticipation of purchasing the new 1DX MkII, and I have to say I am shocked by this latest rumor! 

If these latest underwhelming specs are true, I will hold off making a purchase to wait and see what the 5D MkIV has to offer!


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 29, 2016)

But will the 1DX2 finally get "green box" mode? Come on Canon, get with the program! Everyone else has that function and you don't have it in your flagship DSLR? ? ? Oh the shame!!!!!

Seriously though, I don't believe any claims until it is officially announced.... but the lead-up sure is good entertainment


----------



## 9VIII (Jan 29, 2016)

Gino said:


> I just sold my 1DX in anticipation of purchasing the new 1DX MkII, and I have to say I am shocked by this latest rumor!
> 
> If these latest underwhelming specs are true, I will hold off making a purchase to wait and see what the 5D MkIV has to offer!



Who wants to bet he'll be saying the same thing about every camera until the 1DXMkIII in 2020?


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 29, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > I just sold my 1DX in anticipation of purchasing the new 1DX MkII, and I have to say I am shocked by this latest rumor!
> ...


Gee.... no backup camera? If I had a 1DX and desperately needed a 1DX2, odds are extremely good that I would hold onto the 1DX as a secondary or backup camera.... If you need to be operating at that level, a backup body is essential....


----------



## mclaren777 (Jan 29, 2016)

kevl said:


> The Nikon D5 sounds like a good camera, but Canon is not losing out to Nikon in that range of bodies. It is the 5D & 70D Canon customers who are switching to Nikon.


I wouldn't be so sure. In the world of professional motorsports (F1, Dakar, WEC, etc) where top-tier cameras and lenses are everywhere, I've been seeing a growing movement towards Nikon and away from Canon.

I don't think Canon can afford to mess up too much with the 1DX2 (or the 5D4).


----------



## takesome1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Gino said:


> I just sold my 1DX in anticipation of purchasing the new 1DX MkII, and I have to say I am shocked by this latest rumor!



What will really shock you is when the announcement next week has nothing to do with a new DSLR. Instead it is a build up for some new goofy internet initiative. Left with no camera for another year will be very shocking.


----------



## ScottyP (Jan 29, 2016)

Other than tweaks, or 4k video, what do people expect on a new 1D model? The AF and FPS are already great. The thing is built like a tank.

Any radically new sensor tech will start somewhere lower on the line, like xx-D or 5D-x.


----------



## mackguyver (Jan 29, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > I just sold my 1DX in anticipation of purchasing the new 1DX MkII, and I have to say I am shocked by this latest rumor!
> ...


It'll probably be for a new printer


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 29, 2016)

mclaren777 said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > The Nikon D5 sounds like a good camera, but Canon is not losing out to Nikon in that range of bodies. It is the 5D & 70D Canon customers who are switching to Nikon.
> ...


Personally, I don't think it matters if they shoot 1DX or D5.... both are great, both cost about the same (almost nothing compared to the cost of a motor).... In the end it probably comes down to which user interface you like better and since we are all different, there is no right answer.

If you are shooting at that level, you have far more invested in glass than camera bodies and you will probably continue with the system you have. D4 users get the D5 and the D4 becomes a backup body.... 1DX users get the 1DX2 and the 1DX becomes the backup body.... High end users don't tend to jump from system to system, particularly when they have to go to the boss to justify the expense...

"Hey boss, I want to dump all our Canon gear and get the D4"
Boss - how much will that cost?
"$15,000 for a couple of bodies, 60 or 70K to start for lenses, with accessories about $100,000 for starters"
Boss - will it make the pictures any better?
"oh yes, they will have a stop better DR and blah blah blah blah......."
Boss - will I be able to notice the difference?
"ummm... well.... not really......"
Boss - Don't let the door hit you on the way out.......

P.S. There is one freaking pile of GoPros at the track!


----------



## tpatana (Jan 29, 2016)

ScottyP said:


> Other than tweaks, or 4k video, what do people expect on a new 1D model? The AF and FPS are already great. The thing is built like a tank.



My request is better high-ISO noise, and same time more DR.


----------



## quod (Jan 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Anecdotes ≠ data. The most recently available data show Canon gaining market share and Nikon losing it.


In what segments? Anecdotes ≠ data.


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 29, 2016)

These rumors do nothing for me ... Cuz they are rumors. And a AA filter on/off switch??? It's a physical part of the seonsor. It's either there or it isnt (or canceled). That alone should give us all some pause as to how valid this rumor is

That being said, 20.3 vs 22MP... Ok. Not that big a deal for this type of camera. 

May not be perceived as exciting as the D5? Paper specs dont mean anything. 3mins of 4k video recording and only 55 user selectable AF points isnt that exciting either. What are we talking about here.

If canon really wanted to throw people off the scent, they may try and leak a bunch of false and conflicting rumors... Just sayin'


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 29, 2016)

tron said:


> Not an expert but I do not believe that an OPTICAL AA filter can be set on and off. This seems more difficult than a 15 stop Canon sensor! Who exactly is the source of that info? Also 22Mp seems more likely....



AA Filters can also be digital, in fact, even with optical filters, there are digital ones in the processing stream. 

A on/off function only makes sense for jpeg users, I doubt that raw would be affected.


----------



## takesome1 (Jan 29, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Gino said:
> ...



That is what I am counting on, putting my Pixma Pro's on craigslist right now.


----------



## GoldWing (Jan 29, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> The following information comes from a very well known source, who has been correct about 80% of the time. The resolution information about the upcoming EOS-1D X Mark II contradicts what we were previously told.</p>
> <p>Specifications (Italics are a direct quote):</p>
> <ul>
> <li>20.3mp sensor, we’ve been previously told 22mp by a couple of people.</li>
> ...



I'm sure we'll all be under underwhelmed and dissapointed.


----------



## eml58 (Jan 29, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> These rumors do nothing for me ... Cuz they are rumors. And a AA filter on/off switch??? It's a physical part of the seonsor. It's either there or it isnt (or canceled). That alone should give us all some pause as to how valid this rumor is



I have the Sony RX1R II, have a look at this to see how the AA Filter is handled in this Camera, it's possible Canon may have developed something similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKoWrkEj1qo

I've only had the Camera a month but it seems to produce pretty amazing Files for a small Camera, there's little doubt in my mind that Sony is one of the very few Camera Companies that seem to be actually developing new tech & putting it into their Cameras.

Still, I'm not about to get rid of my 1Dx/5DsR just yet.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 29, 2016)

GoldWing said:


> I'm sure we'll all be under underwhelmed and dissapointed.



We're all sure _you_ will be.


----------



## expatinasia (Jan 29, 2016)

Frage said:


> Maybe the 1DX II is just a 1DC with a new batch ;D



I agree if you meant badge instead of batch.

The 1DX has been top of the game since it came out, and in many ways the 1DC was even further ahead of the game both in its ability and price.

Basically we'll be getting a 1DC II at around the price of the 1DX when it came out, with a few upgrades put into it. Oh and a name change.

All good, but I would bet that quite a few who originally thought they would be upgrading, may not.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 29, 2016)

"Improved dynamic range, but still won’t match the Sony sensors."

Wow. And still talk of no 4k video for 5D4 much less high-quality over-sampled (of course these rumors could be wrong). And DR still not a match for Sony. Thank god for A7R II and stuff. Sure the UI and some stuff is stinky compared to Canon and it's not an action cam and can't do it all (especially not with adapted lenses), but at least there is a way to get your high DR, high MP landscapes shots and 4k video and all with IBIS and use Canon lenses (and keep and old 5D3 or whatnot around for the more action stuff). Maybe Nikon will leap in and a one body does it all, although some say they are worried by the video let down on the D5 as to what a D820 will provide.

Anyway at least there are ways to get great stuff done even if it takes dual bodies and swapping back and forth and adapters. So great times in the end all the same.

Sony does deserve a lot of praise for pushing things forward. I've 85% given up using Canon bodies at this point (and I am a very, very long time exclusive Canon body user), not sure when they will ever wake up. A shame since they do have a great UI. Their lenses are awesome too, but at least they can more or less be used on the Sony for non-action stuff.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jan 29, 2016)

I fear for the health of CR members in the next couple of stressful days! 

Jack


----------



## sanj (Jan 29, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> "Improved dynamic range, but still won’t match the Sony sensors."
> 
> Wow. And still talk of no 4k video for 5D4 much less high-quality over-sampled (of course these rumors could be wrong). And DR still not a match for Sony. Thank god for A7R II and stuff. Sure the UI and some stuff is stinky compared to Canon and it's not an action cam and can't do it all (especially not with adapted lenses), but at least there is a way to get your high DR, high MP landscapes shots and 4k video and all with IBIS and use Canon lenses (and keep and old 5D3 or whatnot around for the more action stuff). Maybe Nikon will leap in and a one body does it all, although some say they are worried by the video let down on the D5 as to what a D820 will provide.
> 
> ...



Absolutely.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 29, 2016)

sanj said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > "Improved dynamic range, but still won’t match the Sony sensors."
> ...



And what, exactly, have Sony pushed? After all if this is true, and I expect it to be, Canon obviously don't think better than Sony DR is important enough to get pushed by, and the truth is I value TS-E 17's and 11-24's etc etc far more than a greater ability to lift shadows. As a stills shooter and stills camera purchaser I couldn't give a damn about video specs, if my 1DX MkII costs 20c more because it has 4K and twin CFast slots I'll be pissed, I don't want or need a combined 1DX/1DC replacement, I want a 1DS MkIII replacement and I have waited very patiently for it!


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > Being able to enable or disable the AA filter is a great idea. Especially since Canon puts AA filters in and then defeats them with software anyway.
> ...



Here's another anecdote for Kevl. I'm exactly the kind of Canon owner Kevl speaks about switching to Nikon. Guess what: It has never even crossed my mind. Not once. Not ever.

I don't have any data for support, but I surmise that there are far more people whining and threatening about jumping over to Nikon than really do because they think Canon reads these threads for ideas and getting the pulse of the market. 

Those who do will find they can't take good photos with a Nikon either and will then switch to Sony. Finally, they'll learn they suck no matter what camera they have.  

Are you switching Kevl?


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 29, 2016)

GoldWing said:


> I'm sure we'll all be under underwhelmed and dissapointed.



You've been virtualy nothing but negative of Canon since your first post. If you find their products so disappointing, by all means, vote with your wallet.


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 29, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > I just sold my 1DX in anticipation of purchasing the new 1DX MkII, and I have to say I am shocked by this latest rumor!
> ...



How does one sell an awesome camera like that not knowing when the replacement will come? Must have some other awesome stuff. More power to ya!


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 29, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Gino said:
> ...



Ceramic filter line.


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 29, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...



I have two 5 series bodies and the thought of switching away from Canon isn't even a distant thought. Nikon and ESPECIALLY Sony don't produce the caliber of glass I require to work. Canon's 135L is unmatched. Canon's 70-200 f2.8 IS II is unmatched (no the Nikon version is considerably softer at the long end where I shoot it most... you can even ask DxO). Nikon and especially Sony have awkward ergonomics and menus for me. I'm not going anywhere and it's plainly obvious by sales figures that most Canon users share my sentiment.


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 29, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> GoldWing said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure we'll all be under underwhelmed and dissapointed.
> ...



Yes, and ship that Canon trash to me.


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 29, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yup, it absolutely is the glass. Cameras get switched every three or four years. Great glass is a round a long time.


----------



## Eldar (Jan 29, 2016)

I was (still am) hoping for a 1DX v2, not a v1.1. If this is correct, I'll probably keep my current 1DX and drop this "upgrade".


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 29, 2016)

thetechhimself said:


> Digicam is reporting the same; and they are 90% accurate historically. They usually get info ~week prior to announcement on the down side, IE they're accurate, but not necessarily very early to report...
> 
> http://digicame-info.com/2016/01/eos-1d-mark-ii.html



Hmm, if that is true then I can't see many people, other than those that have worn their MkI's out, upgrading unless it is for the video. The AF with all points sensitive to f8 sounds great for TC using wildlife shooters, the 20.blur MP is a disappointment.

The specs as listed sound like an underwhelming very small incremental move rather than anything breathtaking, damn.



> _Canon announce soon EOS-1D X Mark II. As of specs of next EOS-1D X Mark II that is currently known.
> 
> - 20.2MP CMOS sensor. Dynamic range improvement
> - Dual pixel CMOS AF
> ...



https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigicame-info.com%2F2016%2F01%2Feos-1d-mark-ii.html


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 29, 2016)

As I mentioned on CR's newest post a moment ago.... I find the 61pt AF a little suspect. Doesnt the 7D2 have 65? I would suspect we would at least move beyond that with all f8. I'm gonna reserve judgement until Monday. Otherwose I damn sure am gonna oick up a 1DX on the dirt cheap.


----------



## Adelino (Jan 29, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



Sounds as if you already happy with the 1DS MkIII or 1DX , no need to upgrade.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 29, 2016)

Adelino said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > sanj said:
> ...



I am and have been very happy with the 1DS MkIII, but they are 7 years old now and I want better AF, ergonomics, ISO performance, complete RT flash functionality etc etc.

But that isn't the question, the question was what, exactly, have Sony forced/pushed Canon to do? Because it seems to me they are just going about doing what they usually do. Can you tell me what Soy have pushed forwards with respect to Canon camera features?


----------



## tpatana (Jan 29, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Not an expert but I do not believe that an OPTICAL AA filter can be set on and off. This seems more difficult than a 15 stop Canon sensor! Who exactly is the source of that info? Also 22Mp seems more likely....
> ...



How about physical filter that raises from the other side than mirror?


----------



## tron (Jan 29, 2016)

tpatana said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > Other than tweaks, or 4k video, what do people expect on a new 1D model? The AF and FPS are already great. The thing is built like a tank.
> ...


These two things (maybe with AF at F/8 for more if not all points) would be more than enough for me.


----------



## Ozarker (Jan 29, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> Adelino said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



I don't think the Sonies have pushed the Canons to do anything.


----------



## Coldhands (Jan 29, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



Nikon submitted a patent filing a few years ago for a switchable AA filter using a liquid crystal layer in the sensor stack. Perhaps the rumoured Canon feature could work in a similar way.

Also, I believe Pentax implements selectable AA filtering by oscillating the sensor as high frequency/low amplitude, although they use their IBIS to enable this so it seems unlikely Canon would go this route.


----------



## tron (Jan 29, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...


1. I think that AA filter is between a clear/protection filter and the sensor.
2. Even if the above does not apply what you suggest would make a fragile camera and the very movement of AA filter would put dust to sensor itself!


----------



## Sporgon (Jan 29, 2016)

Coldhands said:


> Also, I believe Pentax implements selectable AA filtering by oscillating the sensor as high frequency/low amplitude, although they use their IBIS to enable this so it seems unlikely Canon would go this route.



True, but also because if reports over the internet are to be believed, it's implementation has been doggy to say the least, that is it does't work very well. Similar with the pixel shift tech to overcome the Bayer array effect: _critically _ it often doesn't quite get the shift right, though I guess for for the vast majority of hobby users it is good enough.

Historically Canon don't seem to go for tech that isn't 100% reliable.


----------



## Click (Jan 29, 2016)

Eldar said:


> I was (still am) hoping for a 1DX v2, not a v1.1. If this is correct, I'll probably keep my current 1DX and drop this "upgrade".




Same here.


----------



## Dylan777 (Jan 29, 2016)

price tag? $5999 8)


----------



## geonix (Jan 29, 2016)

I don't know what all these complaints are about. 

First FF DPAF Sensor?? 
All AF Points working at a max aperture of f8??
4k Video with 60p (maybe for more than 3 min.) ??
Improved DR (that some people already know it will be still worse than others is just nonserious)
GPS and wifi (finally) 

20MP instead of of 22 - well thats not much of a difference to me. 

IF it really will have "only" 61 AFpoints, that would be the only slightly disappointing news. But lets wait for the official announcement.


----------



## IsaacImage (Jan 29, 2016)

Looks like its 0.200 kg lighter.
If so that would be amazing !


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 29, 2016)

geonix said:


> I don't know what all these complaints are about.
> 
> First FF DPAF Sensor??
> All AF Points working at a max aperture of f8??
> ...



Thank you. Exactly. Here's my comment on another site:

We don't have anywhere close to all the facts yet on this. No metering info for starters. And the rest of what has been mentioned from digi-came isn't necessarily 100% accurate.

For example, this claims another 61pt AF system. The 7D2 however used a brand new 65pt AF all cross type. Now the claim is the 1DX2 uses all user selectable points that are all fully active with f8 maximum capable lenses. That's a 400L f5.6 with a 1.4x teleconvertor on it. Or A 400L, 600L, etc f4 with a 2x. That's pretty huge for the people who really use this camera. That's a great upgrade. But I still wonder about the 61 figure when Canon already has 65 elsewhere. There were also a lot of rumors about far more AF points than 61 from several sources previously. So again, I'm taking this list with a grain of salt and waiting to hear the official, COMPLETE spec unveiling on Monday before I get all riled up over what could just as well be wrong in at least some areas.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 29, 2016)

I can not see any feature of 1DX Mark II that is less than the Nikon D5.

153 AF points? I prefer less AF points, but cross-type.
ISO 3 million? I care about ISO51000, perfectly usable.
4K limited to three minutes? I would want longer recording time, with superior codec.

Someone found a real weakness, which makes 1DX Mark ii a lower camera?


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 29, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> 153 AF points? I prefer less AF points, but cross-type.
> ISO 3 million? I care about ISO51000, perfectly usable.
> Someone found a real weakness, which makes 1DX Mark ii a lower camera?



Apart from none of what digi-came has shared is yet confirmed by an official release, "YES" to everything you said. The D5 specs look so lovely on paper until you start digging in further. I'd rather (IF this is true) 61 higher accuracy & high precision, user-selectable, ALL cross type (and you know many of them will be DUAL Cross) AF points rather than 55 user selectable (of the 153 total) with only some as cross type and zero as dual cross.

We know nothing of ISO performance or how they have tweaked the DPAF for this flagship. Give me 12800 that looks like 6400 on the 1DX with even faster and more reliable AF with more ability to pull shadows with lower noise and that's a big win. That's why people use this camera


----------



## kevl (Jan 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > Being able to enable or disable the AA filter is a great idea. Especially since Canon puts AA filters in and then defeats them with software anyway.
> ...



You must be new to the internet.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 29, 2016)

kevl said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...


agreed....
one second hand anecdote trumps 10 years of data from multiple sources.... for some people


----------



## hoodlum (Jan 29, 2016)

Digicame has updated their link with more info.

20.2MP CMOS sensor with dynamic range improvement

•Dual pixel CMOS AF
•ISO: 100-51200 (expanded in 409600)
•61-point AF system, expanded range, 41-point cross-type, all of the distance measuring points can be selected
•At f/8, 61 points can be selected
•AF is -3EV
•360000 dot photometric sensor. EOS iSA. EOS iTR
•0.76 times the viewfinder magnification. 100% field of view
•Improved AI AF accuracy and motion tracking Servo AF III +
•Dual DIGIC6 + processor
•New mirror drive system that enables high-speed continuous shooting
•Video 4K 60fps. Full HD120fps, 4K video can be recorded in internal CFast2.0 media
•Movie servo AF
•Continuous shooting up to14 fps, 16 fps in live view mode
•Continuous shooting in RAW: 170 frames (at 16 frames / sec.), unlimited in JPEG
•Dual pixel CMOS AF, enables smooth AF with 4K video
•LCD monitor 3.2 inches, 1.62 million dots. Touch panel.
•Camera digital lens Optimizer (DLO), lens aberration correction, diffraction correction
•CFast2.0 and compact flash slots
•GPS built-in
•USB3.0 terminal, HDMI terminal
•Dust and water resistant
•Wi-Fi option (WFT-E8)
•Dimensions: 158mm x 167.6mm x 82.6mm
•Weight: 1340g


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 29, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yeah, my bad. Engaging a witless post wasn't a good idea.


----------



## tron (Jan 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > kevl said:
> ...


 +1


----------



## RGF (Jan 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Anecdotes ≠ data. The most recently available data show Canon gaining market share and Nikon losing it.



Very true. Correlation is not causality. However anecdotes win elections. Many people either can not or do not think.

Overall camera specs look very nice. Only wish resolution was 20% higher. Perhaps with the Mark III.Wonder much DR improvement there will be.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Jan 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> kevl said:
> 
> 
> > It is the 5D & 70D Canon customers who are switching to Nikon. That's where Canon can't afford an evolutionary product this year.
> ...



Maybe because in real world it is a pleasure to use Canon cameras and lenses? Even Ming Thein, a Nikon user, had to admit that Canon's ergonomics is great. Plus: out-of-the-camera colors are pleasing. Isn't that already 80 % of what you can expect from a good photographic tool? DR matters, but colors much more. Everyone having access to Nikon gear like me knows exactly what Ming Thein means with "pleasing colors", you always have to post-process Nikon files to get a good look. So for me it is still a pleasure just to grab a good Canon DSLR, walk out and shoot. It just falls perfectly into your hands and does its job without interfering you much. That - plus some gorgeous lenses - keeps me sticking with Canon's system. But they really have to come up with competitive sensor & electronics technology in their cameras or they'll lose the battle in this tight market in the long run.


----------



## kentsievers (Jan 30, 2016)

Really hoping the need for a $600 wifi attachment is not needed. I hate having to write to a slow eyefi card to send to my phone to file for tight deadlines. Pros need wifi now more than ever.

Then there's this. That's my very expensive 1DX and 70-200 propping up my muuuuch cheaper Fuji X-E2 to catch a ground squirrel via wifi control on my iPhone.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 30, 2016)

kentsievers said:


> Really hoping the need for a $600 wifi attachment is not needed. I hate having to write to a slow eyefi card to send to my phone to file for tight deadlines. Pros need wifi now more than ever.
> 
> Then there's this. That's my very expensive 1DX and 70-200 propping up my muuuuch cheaper Fuji X-E2 to catch a ground squirrel via wifi control on my iPhone.



Just get a CamRanger, much better than the EyeFi and the Canon WFT's.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Jan 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> > 4K limited to three minutes? I would want longer recording time, with superior codec.
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon have already fixed that problem.



Have they really? I don't follow closely cameras I'm not in the market for, but it seems very un-Nikon like to fix a problem between announcement and release dates. Typically they'd just wait a while, not acknowledging, and release a new camera.

Good for them.


----------



## expatinasia (Jan 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > 4K limited to three minutes? I would want longer recording time, with superior codec.
> ...



Have they? Are you sure?!

From NikonRumours is states:

[quote author=nikonrumors]The Nikon D5 can only shoot 3 minutes of 4k video while the D500 can shoot 4k for 30 minutes (see this and this post for more details). I received a tip that Nikon will release a firmware update after shipping starts in March that will increase the 4k recording limit of the D5 to 30 minutes. This info is coming from a Nikon rep at one of the recent D5 events, so take it with a grain of salt.

Update: the 30 min 4k video in the D5 will probably be achieved by recording 10 sequential files @ 3 minutes each.[/quote]


I don't call that fixed!

http://nikonrumors.com/2016/01/21/rumors-nikon-d5-firmware-update-to-extend-the-4k-video-recording-limit-to-30-minutes.aspx/


----------



## expatinasia (Jan 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Depends on your perspective.
> 
> If not a frame is missing, does it matter if it is 10 files or 1 file?
> 
> ...



How much video do you work with, Dilbert? I don't think very much from your reply - and I do not mean that negatively or nastily, it just sounds like you do not have much experience with video making.

I do a lot, and yes it makes a difference if there is one file or ten. And no it won't make it easier in production. And loading one or two multi-GB files takes absolutely no time at all.

There is no way, I would ever work with such a system - it would be a nightmare.

And Dilbert, this is a major feature of Nikon's flasgship. This mistake should never have happened. You should not need to download a firmware update the day after buying a US$ 5,000 camera which only solves the problem on paper and not in real life usage.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> How much video do you work with, Dilbert? I don't think very much from your reply - and I do not mean that negatively or nastily, it just sounds like you do not have much experience with video making.



Oh, dilbert has vast experience with everything. Vast experience with sports photography (which is why he thinks there's no point in capturing the ball in the image). Vast experience with broadcast TV equipment (which is why he thinks box lenses are cameras). Vast experience with cameras (which is why he stated the 1D C isn't a dSLR). Vast experience with rumors (which is why he believes they're facts even when the source says take it with a grain of salt).

Of course, vast experience in dilbertland doesn't count for a hill o' beans out here in the real world.


----------



## Nininini (Jan 30, 2016)

I use my 70D DSLR to record youtube videos and to shoot wildlife. If the camera was limited to 3 minute recording, I would probably throw it in the garbage. I don't know who Nikon is trying to attract with 3 minute 4k recording, but it sure isn't anyone professional.


----------



## Nininini (Jan 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Depends on your perspective.
> 
> If not a frame is missing, does it matter if it is 10 files or 1 file?



Of course it matters. It's like trying to ask if you wouldn't mind if your picture came out in 10 pieces and you had to stitch them together in Photoshop.

It's terrible.

I use Video Studio X8, and you can just drop files in there. But you ideally want as little individual files as possible.

If you want to apply an effect, you want to apply it on the whole video, not just individual pieces of video. 

So people who will shoot video with those Nikons in 4k, will need to first stitch the video together, which:

A: takes a lot of time
B: can cause problems during rendering
C: always has the potential to degrades the quality or alter the colors to some extent, even in lossless formats

Having to deal with many different individual files is a nightmare.



Here is an example. I want to apply an effect to my video, but it's made up of 2 parts.

You can only apply it evenly across one part, you can see I can only add the effect to one video file at the time, because video software perceives it as individual files.

With complex effects, you need to copy the effect over exactly with the same settings twice. Or start stitching the video together.

*Imagine doing that for 10 pieces of 3 minute video. It would be a nightmare.*


----------



## Nininini (Jan 30, 2016)

> I was under the impression that this wasn't so difficult..



Stitching video together is always high risk. Files contain headers, color data, often compression, you want to avoid it as much as possible. I'm not a professional videographer, I just make some youtube videos, but almost all the issues I have experienced with video happen during stitching and rendering. 

Just rendering in a different format almost always causes color changes. if you turn a .mov file into MP4 for example, I can use 3 programs for it, handbrake, vegas or video studio, all 3 have very slightly different colors.

You want to avoid changing files, having to stitch files together, as much as humanly possible.


----------



## Nininini (Jan 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> I have trouble imagining why there should be any loss of quality or color.
> 
> To go to an extreme, if you look at what ML did for raw video, the video is just a ZIP file containing multiple raw DNG files (which is really just one way of implementing Adobe's CinemaDNG.)



Many people nowadays shoot in MP4 container with H.264 as the codec. I always shoot like that, I like MP4 straight out of the camera, it's smaller files and it takes up far less space. It's a compressed format. Stitching files together requires rerendering multiple times.

It's similar to saving a JPEG multiple times, it degrades the quality.

In theory...in theory..a lossless format might be stitched without any loss of quality, but like I said, each program interprets video differently, just like each program interprets RAW files differently. There are differences in color.

And again, how many DSLR actually shoot video lossless? .mov, .avi and mp4 output all use h.264 compression.

Super expensive Arri and Red cameras shoot lossless, I don't know of any DLSR that does.


----------



## Nininini (Jan 30, 2016)

I just checked the video output format of the Nikon D5 and D500, 4K video is output in .MOV Quicktime with the .264 codec.

So, compressed video. Afaik, uncompressed video can only be found on professional video cameras, Alexa, Red, etc.

Stitching pieces of 3 minute compressed .mov video together isn't going to help quality.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> ...I have trouble imagining



Yet you seem to have a great capability to imagine facts out of thin air!


----------



## Reality Merely Illusion (Jan 30, 2016)

hoodlum said:


> Digicame has updated their link with more info.
> 
> 20.2MP CMOS sensor with dynamic range improvement
> 
> ...




YES canon is finally giving us a real deep RAW buffer!!

I'm happy for all wildlife shooters on either side who don't have to worry about filling their buffers anymore


----------



## Nininini (Jan 30, 2016)

Reality Merely Illusion said:


> Full HD120fps



Interesting, I hope this trickles down to other DSLR that us non-pros can afford.

I already slow down my 60FPS video from time to time, especially with wildlife. 120FPS would be nice.


----------



## tpatana (Jan 30, 2016)

Reality Merely Illusion said:


> I'm happy for all wildlife shooters on either side who don't have to worry about filling their buffers anymore



Never had that problem on Mk1 either using fast cards, but nevertheless I welcome the upgrade.

Just curious, I wonder if the original piece read 二十点二Mpix, for non-speakers with quick glance that could be 22 easily I guess.


----------



## kaihp (Jan 30, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Reality Merely Illusion said:
> 
> 
> > I'm happy for all wildlife shooters on either side who don't have to worry about filling their buffers anymore
> ...



That, or 202Mpix. Seen that too many times in China (sigh)


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 30, 2016)

I think Craig would make bank selling a "Neuro & Dilbert Show" podcast to web advertisers. Million dollar idea right there. :


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 30, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> I think Craig would make bank selling a "Neuro & Dilbert Show" podcast to web advertisers. Million dollar idea right there. :



He does already, why bother with the podcast?


----------



## expatinasia (Jan 31, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



dilbert, it is very obvious you do not shoot video much (if at all), so why are you going on about it? Talk about something you do know about.

But to answer your question. The 1DX will make a new file when it reaches 4GB.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> dilbert, it is very obvious you do not shoot video much (if at all), so why are you going on about it? Talk about something you do know about.


----------



## expatinasia (Jan 31, 2016)

dilbert said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



The 1DX does not stop recording well before 29:59 and I have gone past that a few times.

A 3.95GB Full HD recording on the 1DX is about 18:01 mins.

Another file is 3.98 GB and that is 18.11 mins.

I still have not deleted either of the files from my computer so I did not need to rely on second hand info.


----------



## expatinasia (Jan 31, 2016)

dilbert said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



This will be my last post on this topic, as it is pointless talking to you, and quite frankly I wish I had not started.

The 1DX does not stop recording at 18:XX mins the video file just gets put into another file.

The 1DX will keep recording continuously for 29:59 mins.

The 29:59 minute limit is the continuous recording time. The 1D X does indeed stop recording at that moment and you need to start recording again, losing about 2-3 seconds of image if you are paying attention.

The videos I mentioned which are about 3.8GB in size and roughly 18:XX mins long were recorded in IPB at 1920x1080 at 25 frames per second.

That's all from me. Ciao.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jan 31, 2016)

"This will be my last post on this topic, as it is pointless talking to you, and quite frankly I wish I had not started."

Breaks me up. I read CR for the humour - not saying I have a very conventional sense of humour, mind you! 

Jack


----------



## nvsravank (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks for sharing this. If true would be a great upgrade that cannot be given with firmware!



eml58 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > These rumors do nothing for me ... Cuz they are rumors. And a AA filter on/off switch??? It's a physical part of the seonsor. It's either there or it isnt (or canceled). That alone should give us all some pause as to how valid this rumor is
> ...


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jan 31, 2016)

The official news is not today later on, right, rather Monday? This running to the computer umpteen times a day needs to stop!

Jack


----------



## George D. (Jan 31, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> </p>
> <ul>
> <li>20.2mp sensor (We messed up and screwed up a translation and reported 22mp, instead of 20.2mp.)</li>



Can be mended by reporting the right resolution of 5D MkIV. We're (I'm) anxiously awaiting.


----------



## Mark D5 TEAM II (Jan 31, 2016)

“Specifications may not be perceived as exciting as the Nikon D5.”

- Which ones exactly? The fact that Nikon even felt the need to release a D4s to catch up to the 1DX just goes to show how far the 1DX was, if the D5 finally reached its level then the 1DX2 would just move the goal posts farther. The Nikon camp is more excited because it had a lot more catching up to do, the 1DX2 only had to reflect the current state-of-the-art since the 1DX was basically almost perfect already.


----------



## takesome1 (Jan 31, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> The official news is not today later on, right, rather Monday? This running to the computer umpteen times a day needs to stop!
> 
> Jack



I am betting against a big DSLR announcement. In the past when a new body was released there was all kind of buzz going around by this time.

It is looking like a false run.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jan 31, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > The official news is not today later on, right, rather Monday? This running to the computer umpteen times a day needs to stop!
> ...


I thought it is gonna be Tuesday.


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 31, 2016)

Monday or Tuesday depending where you are in the world relative to the international date line. Monday here in the USA is Tuesday in Australia. Regardless of what it is where you are, this Canon press release is happening all at the same time in its various markets.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jan 31, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > The official news is not today later on, right, rather Monday? This running to the computer umpteen times a day needs to stop!
> ...



Oh no, don't know if I can take that. I'm elderly and frail. :'(

Jack


----------



## takesome1 (Jan 31, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Monday or Tuesday depending where you are in the world relative to the international date line. Monday here in the USA is Tuesday in Australia. Regardless of what it is where you are, this Canon press release is happening all at the same time in its various markets.



No doubt there will be some type of press release. With past releases we saw more leaks.
Maybe Canon is keeping a tight lid on it because the specs will surprise everyone. Doubtfull, more likely a false run.


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 31, 2016)

No. It's gonna happen. Canon made a relatively rare press conference with private invitations sent out. We knew the DX2 for some time would likely be a Feb announcement with April release because this is an Olympic year. Then a huge spec list gets leaked to Digi-Came who is historically pretty accurate although we won't know for sure about the specifics until tomorrow. It's not a false run.



takesome1 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Monday or Tuesday depending where you are in the world relative to the international date line. Monday here in the USA is Tuesday in Australia. Regardless of what it is where you are, this Canon press release is happening all at the same time in its various markets.
> ...


----------



## DLD (Jan 31, 2016)

I sure hope Canon increases the DR or their cameras. It's my major gripe right now. I came back to Canon from Nikon because of the ergonomics and lenses from Canon. I'm disappointed with iso and dr performance compared to Nikon. The positive is the colors and ease of use.. But the 1dx mkii may be an indication of what's to come... So I'm hoping.

I also feel spot metering on selected focus points is important. Frame rate is ok as is... I don't shoot sports.. 4k, don't use it but may in the future, would be nice to have but not if it raises the price of the bodies too much. A larger buffer also.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 31, 2016)

DLD said:


> I also feel spot metering on selected focus points is important.



Every 1 series DSLR has had AF point linked spot metering, since before the were DSLR's and were just SLR's.


----------



## DLD (Jan 31, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> DLD said:
> 
> 
> > I also feel spot metering on selected focus points is important.
> ...


Yes but the 5D do not, and that's what I was talking about. The D810, D750, D610 and even the D7200 from Nikon do. After using some of those cameras it's a very nice thing to have... Not that it's a make or break situation, but I do feel it is important..


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2016)

DLD said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > DLD said:
> ...



Except the thread is about the 1D X II, and that was the only camera you mentioned...


----------



## arbitrage (Jan 31, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > The official news is not today later on, right, rather Monday? This running to the computer umpteen times a day needs to stop!
> ...



I'll take that bet....the fact that we have pictures and a full spec list from the site (digicame-info) that releases the pictures and spec list a few days before every big release makes me about 100% certain it is coming tomorrow.


----------



## expatinasia (Feb 1, 2016)

dilbert said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I said I wasn't going to reply but I must be some sort of glutton for punishment!

I will speak slowly now:

Too many files are bad, messy and increase the risk of errors being made in post.

On the 1DX in IPB and 1920x1080 at 25fps I can record (in real life) about 18 minutes to one 3.9XGB file.

Or up to around 36 minutes in two files.

That's fine.

I would not use a camera that gave me, for example, 6 or 7 files for an 18 minute video. It would be very messy in post and not what I would want. I would then use a different camera, or card (if that made a difference).

I am only talking about today, not what I may be shooting tomorrow or in a year's time.

For future hypothesis, if the 1DX II shoots 4K and only records one file of around 3mins to either CFast or CF then I am 100% sure I won't be buying it. If however, I can record videos, as I do now, of around 18 minutes to one file in 4K then I will consider it. But quite frankly, if the rumoured specs that we have are true, then I doubt I will get the 1DX II anyway, as I will keep my 1DX for stills and 1080p work and invest in something different for 4K video work. But I will cross that bridge when I know 100% for sure what the specs are of the new flagship DSLR.


----------



## Orangutan (Feb 1, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> For future hypothesis, if the 1DX II shoots 4K and only records one file of around 3mins to either CFast or CF then I am 100% sure I won't be buying it. If however, I can record videos, as I do now, of around 18 minutes to one file in 4K then I will consider it.



I haven't checked on the 1DX, but usually the 4GB limit is due to the filesystem being used, FAT32. I would expect any serious 4K video camera to have an option to use a different filesystem that can write much larger files.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/06/review-is-microsofts-new-data-sharing-system-a-cross-platform-savior/


----------



## expatinasia (Feb 1, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > For future hypothesis, if the 1DX II shoots 4K and only records one file of around 3mins to either CFast or CF then I am 100% sure I won't be buying it. If however, I can record videos, as I do now, of around 18 minutes to one file in 4K then I will consider it.
> ...



Yes, I would expect so. Which is why the D5's 3-minute file limit is all the more confusing.


----------



## Orangutan (Feb 1, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > expatinasia said:
> ...


I would guess a firmware update will address that, I can't imagine that videographers would tolerate it for very long. I suppose there's a tiny chance that Nikon will include some merge utility to perform a "seamless" stitch immediately after transfer to computer, but I don't think it would be well received.


----------



## Alejandro (Feb 1, 2016)

Don't forget sensor heat...


----------



## Orangutan (Feb 1, 2016)

Alejandro said:


> Don't forget sensor heat...


It's separate from file size.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Feb 1, 2016)

CR must be pleased. I've only been around a couple of years but it sure seems the ranks have swelled the last couple weeks. Where's everyone coming from? Is this typical?

Jack


----------



## Don Haines (Feb 1, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > expatinasia said:
> ...


Just thinking out loud here....

On a Canon, 2K video will fill the maximum file size in 18 minutes.....

Quite possibly, 4K video at a similar quality would fill the maximum file size in 4 1/2 minutes....

If Nikon is storing the file at a higher bit depth, then it is possible that they are filling the max file size in under that time, say 3 minutes and something, and decided to just make it exactly 3 minutes for consistency in editing...


----------



## privatebydesign (Feb 1, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> CR must be pleased. I've only been around a couple of years but it sure seems the ranks have swelled the last couple weeks. Where's everyone coming from? Is this typical?
> 
> Jack



Yes it is pretty typical when there is a new big body release due, the 7D MkII wasn't as big as the 5 series, just wait for the 5D MkIV rumors to start rolling


----------

