# Where is the M-3 with the dual pixel sensor!!!!



## Busted Knuckles (May 3, 2014)

Come on Canon!!!

I am going on a big trip in the fall and want to have compact ILC. ARRRGGGHHHH!!!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 3, 2014)

Its not going to appear. Mirrorless cameras are a huge sales flop in the USA and Europe. Canon has said as much. The ordinary camera buyers who shop the big box stores see them as glorified P&S cameras at a huge price and would rather get a DSLR for the same price.

I think that there are some at Canon who remember getting burned with their two previous tries at making cameras with a fixed pellicle mirror. Sales were good at first, then tanked as users realized the limitations brought on by losing 1/3 of your light. They put out the M as a trial, and, it was a bust. In Asia, its more successful, so new mirrorless cameras will be aimed at Asian markets.

Obviously, there are some that would like them, and there are some on the market, you'll have to pick from one of them.


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## nads (May 3, 2014)

If they just release one in Asia, I'm fine with that too.

I've got the M, 22mm and 11-22mm and find the set to be far better than normally reviewed. I picked up the E-M10 and 17mm 1.8 when first released. FAST! I can't believe how quick it was to focus and fire off shots that aren't in focus! Brilliant!

I use the M for family shots and, while slow, the keeper rate is far higher than anything in the Micro Four thirds arena.

For anybody interested in a 35mm equivalent FOV, there is nothing anywhere in the canon lineup that comes close to touching the quality of the M + 22mm f/2 at any kind of reasonable price point.


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## Bob Howland (May 4, 2014)

nads said:


> For anybody interested in a 35mm equivalent FOV, there is nothing anywhere in the canon lineup that comes close to touching the quality of the M + 22mm f/2 at any kind of reasonable price point.



I assume "reasonable price point" means the current M price point, or does it mean the original price point of the M or the current price point of the M2?


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## nads (May 4, 2014)

Bob Howland said:


> nads said:
> 
> 
> > For anybody interested in a 35mm equivalent FOV, there is nothing anywhere in the canon lineup that comes close to touching the quality of the M + 22mm f/2 at any kind of reasonable price point.
> ...



I'd say price point of the current M2 is still reasonable... at what price can one purchase the next least expensive body and lens to achieve 35mm equivalent FOV at f/2.0 within the EOS system? At what price can somebody purchase a non-canon system (body + lens) and achieve the equivalent with equal image quality to the EOS-M?


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## Zv (May 4, 2014)

Take your pick of currently available systems from Fujifilm, Sony, Olympus, Canon or Nikon. Loads of MILCs to choose from. Why wait for some mythical M3 that will prob never see a US or Europe release?

The current gear available today is more than good enough. The only limitation is the photographer.


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## tron (May 5, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I think that there are some at Canon who remember getting burned with their two previous tries at making cameras with a fixed pellicle mirror. Sales were good at first, then tanked as users realized the limitations brought on by losing 1/3 of your light.


EOS RT loses 2/3 of a stop not 1/3. By the way I do have it. Unfortunately its shutter needs servicing


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## drjlo (May 5, 2014)

nads said:


> For anybody interested in a 35mm equivalent FOV, there is nothing anywhere in the canon lineup that comes close to touching the quality of the M + 22mm f/2 at any kind of reasonable price point.



Would have to agree with that, not just for price but for overall physical size to carry around. Even Sony A7R with Sony/Zeiss 55 mm had great quality but was still quite a bit larger to carry around, not to mention the price.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 5, 2014)

tron said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I think that there are some at Canon who remember getting burned with their two previous tries at making cameras with a fixed pellicle mirror. Sales were good at first, then tanked as users realized the limitations brought on by losing 1/3 of your light.
> ...


 
Thanks for the correction. I hope you can get it fixed. I go back to the Pellix in the 1960's or early 1970's. I had forgotten which way the 2/3 of the light went. I occasionally see a RT on Craigs list locally, but sellers usually have no clue as to a reasonable price. In any event, I'm starting to sell off my dozens of old cameras, my kids are not interested in them. The valuable ones sold first, so I'm down to the average 35mm cameras of the 1970's and 1980's. I do still have a Nikon Ftn that I find it hard to part with.


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## Kit. (May 5, 2014)

tron said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I think that there are some at Canon who remember getting burned with their two previous tries at making cameras with a fixed pellicle mirror. Sales were good at first, then tanked as users realized the limitations brought on by losing 1/3 of your light.
> ...


2/3 of a stop _is_ 1/3 of the light.


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## tron (May 5, 2014)

Kit. said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...


Thanks, I just saw that the word "stop" was not mentioned and was wondering the same myself.


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## tron (May 5, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I hope you can get it fixed.


It is a known old Canon issue with the shutter getting old and needing cleaning (some rubber parts that look like oil on shutter). The service price was around 70 euros which is too much for a film camera that probably cannot be sold even for that amount!


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## AvTvM (May 5, 2014)

Zv said:


> Take your pick of currently available systems from Fujifilm, Sony, Olympus, Canon or Nikon. Loads of MILCs to choose from. Why wait for some mythical M3 that will prob never see a US or Europe release?
> 
> The current gear available today is more than good enough. The only limitation is the photographer.



wrong. dead wrong.
The current MIRRORLESS gear is nowhere near "good enough". Most definitely not the Canon EOS-M and M2. 

Not good enough in terms of AF speed and performance. Only 2 MILCs are currently equipped with a remotely tracking-capable AF system - Fuji XT-1 and Nikon 1, but the latter has way too small a sensor. 
Not good enough in terms EVF - resolution, color, lag ... while better than before, still suck, even in the best MILCs (Fuji XT-1). 
Not good enough in terms of shutter - not one MILC with a fully electronic global shutter yet. 100% silent. 100% free of vibrations. And X-Sync all the way to 1/8000s.
Not one MILC good enough in terms of battery charge ... 500 shots plus. 

I also want a compact Canon EOS M3 with a better sensor, fully tracking-capable AF [@ 5+ fps], state of the art Retina-EVF and decent battery charge for 500+ shots. At a reasonable price - meaning 100 USD€ less than the cheapest comparable mirrorslapper.


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## mb66energy (May 5, 2014)

Zv said:


> Take your pick of currently available systems from Fujifilm, Sony, Olympus, Canon or Nikon. Loads of MILCs to choose from. Why wait for some mythical M3 that will prob never see a US or Europe release?
> 
> The current gear available today is more than good enough. The only limitation is the photographer.



In my opinion your last sentences are mostly true.

I love my EOS M because it has two real advantages:
- small and lightweight
- standard zoom is much better than the equivalent standard zoom for DSLRs

O.k., manual mode is awkward in terms of control, an EVF would be very helpful.

But: Give that camera
- a control wheel near the shutter release button (e.g. for exp time) and
- a second control wheel concentrically to the lens mount (e.g. for aperture) (like S95 etc.) and
- an ISO wheel +
- a tiny LCD which shows just aperture, exp time, ISO and remaining shots/minutes.
- a larger battery (with it's compartment acting as substantial hand grip)
and that camera is a winner for a lot of people - for these who enjoy photographic tools and are willing to pay e.g. 1000 $/€ for such a body. And it might be a winner for Canon: Advertising for a series of feature oriented EOS M like bodies (larger display, Wifi, 2nd display for selfies, etc.)

For me EOS M has replaced the S95 successfully as "always with me"-camera with extended capabilities and much better image quality especially at ISO bigger/equal than 400 ASA.


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## Zv (May 5, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Take your pick of currently available systems from Fujifilm, Sony, Olympus, Canon or Nikon. Loads of MILCs to choose from. Why wait for some mythical M3 that will prob never see a US or Europe release?
> ...



Nothing will ever be good enough for you! We've heard this rant a million times. :

If you can't take a decent picture with current technology you are doing something terribly wrong with it. I didn't say the current MILCs were ideal for things like the Olympic games or chasing down wild animals on a safari but for the average use it is more than capable. 

Heck even an iPhone is good enough for some really skillful photographers (I am not one of them and I need DSLR, I'm not afraid to admit that even then I kinda suck sometimes  )


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## Zv (May 5, 2014)

mb66energy said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Take your pick of currently available systems from Fujifilm, Sony, Olympus, Canon or Nikon. Loads of MILCs to choose from. Why wait for some mythical M3 that will prob never see a US or Europe release?
> ...



Me too. I take it places I wouldn't normally take my DSLR. Even with just the 22mm f/2 it's very versatile but the fact that you can stick all kinds of lenses on it via an adaptor makes it even more fun! 

I kind of see it's shortcomings as a challenge. I say to myself "hey I wonder if I can do such and such with only my EOS M". I've tried off camera flash with it, a bit of macro, long exposures, events, holidays ... the list goes on. Each time it performs better than I expected it would. As a second camera for Canon shooters it rocks! 

Regarding ISO - you can change the trash can button (down press) to bring up the ISO menu and use the wheel to change it. 

I wish you could remap the movie rec. button though, that one seems like it should have had a dual purpose. I'm thinking back button focus would have been sweet!


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## nads (May 5, 2014)

Zv said:


> Take your pick of currently available systems from Fujifilm, Sony, Olympus, Canon or Nikon. Loads of MILCs to choose from. Why wait for some mythical M3 that will prob never see a US or Europe release?
> 
> The current gear available today is more than good enough. The only limitation is the photographer.



I'm not waiting for the M3... I've got the M and happily use it. There are tradeoffs to every platform and contrary to popular opinion, there are key befits of the M that must be given up to move to the other platforms.

Fuji looks great... APS-C, great design... wait, is that a 23mm prime and 10-24 zoom for $1900? That's not a trade off... thats the price of a trade in car! 

Olympus looks great... oh wait, another ultrawide zoom for 2 times what it cost me to bring in the 11-22 from another county? Great! Oh and superfast AF and 8fps on a $700 body... except the keeper rate sucks so forget that.

Will there be a M3? Hopefully yes. If it happens to bring in wifi, focus peaking and a handful of other electronic / processor based improvements that are currently available on the other platforms then there will be less to gain by moving away from the M. 

What I absolutely do not expect to see are the micro 4/3 or Fuji platforms gaining the benefits of reasonably priced optics with a decent sized sensor.


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## Busted Knuckles (May 16, 2014)

I am good with most of the trade-offs to the smaller form factor. I just want the current sensor and dual pixel focusing and related features. Definetly a party/backup camera for me.

Not to hijack my own thread... but the mirror has been around for a long time...... I am sure "we" will do bettet soon, afterall this is not genetic manipulation, it is bits of hardware and software.


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## Lt Colonel (Jun 7, 2014)

So, given all the rumors and speculation, is the M a dead-on-the-vine product in the US for Canon?


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## tron (Jun 7, 2014)

Where is the M-3 with the dual pixel sensor? It is not a matter of "Where" but of "When" Your question is a little early in the time-space continuum...

Now, where is my 5DMkIV? ;D ;D ;D


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## bobw (Jun 7, 2014)

For me the "when" is "too late".

I have been considering migrating from my SLR to a mirrorless camera. I've just walked too many miles carrying a heavy bag and want something smaller and lighter.

Well one of my SLR's lenses just died so it's decision time. Put more money into the old system or switch now to something else.

I've decided to switch. I'm not sure which camera yet but it won't be the M. Canon just lost my business.


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## Jamesy (Jun 7, 2014)

nads said:


> I'm not waiting for the M3... I've got the M and happily use it. There are tradeoffs to every platform and contrary to popular opinion, there are key befits of the M that must be given up to move to the other platforms.
> 
> Fuji looks great... APS-C, great design... wait, is that a 23mm prime and 10-24 zoom for $1900? That's not a trade off... thats the price of a trade in car!


I'm with you there. I just picked up a M kit (Body, 18-55, 90ex) for $350 CDN from Amazon.ca. The 22mm pancake is on the way from HK. I was looking seriously at the Fuji X-series lineup and could not justify the cash for a vacation camera. I have my 5D3 and a bunch of lenses and am getting tired lugging them around. The low cost of entry for the current M system tipped the scale for me. Is it perfect, not even close but it smokes my S90 for features and IQ so it will get some airplay for those situations I want to travel light.

I am looking forward to see what Canon does with the rumoured M3 too!


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## pdirestajr (Jun 7, 2014)

There is a Best Buy store in NYC by my office. As I work in developing consumer products, I like to pop in there from time to time to do market research. The Canon M system never appeared in that store! How can a new system like that ever get off the ground if it isn't supported by a big box store like Best Buy?

The camera section continues to get smaller as their tablet section continues to grow.


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## lensgrabber (Jun 19, 2014)

Whenever the EOS-M3 comes out I'm buying it. Period. Even if I have to import it. Yes the M is slow as Christmas for action shots but for holiday carry and pocket-ability (gotta love that 22 pancake) it's excellent. Some day I'll import the 11-22mm. I am hoping Canon is just regrouping their strategy plan for the US market and didn't dump on us completely.


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## Jamesy (Jun 19, 2014)

I think with the recent 55-200 EF-M announcement the M has some legs. Hopefully they release a nice M3 for Photokina and open up the floodgates for your US market.


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## Random Orbits (Jun 19, 2014)

Jamesy said:


> I think with the recent 55-200 EF-M announcement the M has some legs. Hopefully they release a nice M3 for Photokina and open up the floodgates for your US market.



+1. I bought into the M system, and I agree that the 55-200 shows that Canon thinks the M system has long-term viability. I got it originally to replace a P&S, and have added the 18-55 and the 11-22 (a Canadian order placed from the US). I don't think I'll get the 55-200 for 420. If it goes on sale, then maybe... The M has replaced our old HD camcorder. Better AF would be nice, but it's OK for my family's uses for now.


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