# EOS M5 - first impressions



## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 26, 2016)

Hi,

just want to start a thread of first impressions.

some Pro's
1. tiltable touchscreen
2. being able to move the AF cursor while looking through the EVF (configurable if wanting absolut or relative positioning or if you want to use the whole screen or only parts of it e.g. up right corner)
3. build in EVF
4. AEB bracketing for example for HDR shots now works again without delay between the bracheted shots (like on the M)
5. customizeable buttons
6. wireless connections
7. AF seems to be way better then with the predecessors.
8. C1 and C2 Custom programs available for having prefered settings available by simply turning one dial.
9. ISO can now be stepped through in 1/3 stops, not only full stops. Don't know if this was the case with the M3 already.

some Con's
1. slow UI. I expected more from a camera with digic7 (I like the ui of the M more, feels like a step backwards compared to the M).
2. build in flash does not support optical master function (There is also no radio triggering build in)
3. good possibilities to change settings by mistake due to so much dials and buttons on such a small housing
4. no tethering via USB with EOS Utility (I hoped for this function when I read that it will have a USB port)
5. Camera connect App has very little functions. There is hope that chainfire will extend the DSLR Controller App also for the M5
6. For me the grip could even have been bigger for two reasons (bigger battery and better ergonomics) but for others the compactness may has more priority.
7. no build in intervalometer (but it can be triggered with an external remote control).

Feel free to ask if you want to know something which is not mentioned here.
Regarding Video: I don't do any videos. So I didn't test anything nor I feel comfortabe to judge the functionality here.

regards
Frank


----------



## NorbR (Nov 26, 2016)

Thanks, that's useful. I'm planning to get mine soon, I look forward to trying it out.



Photorex said:


> 4. AEB bracketing for example for HDR shots now works again without delay between the bracheted shots (like on the M)



I'm sure glad to hear that. That was the one thing driving me crazy with the M3. Don't know what they were thinking there. I'm glad they got back to normal bracketing speed.


----------



## troy19 (Nov 26, 2016)

Photorex said:


> some Pro's
> 1. tiltable touchscreen
> 
> 3. build in EVF
> ...



Thank you so much for giving us your first impressions. May I ask some questions/give some comments?

some Pro's

1. I liked the fully articulating screen from the 70d very much and I'm unsure if the tiltable touchscreen of the M5 is enough for me ...

3. How do you compare the build in EVF with OVF regarding responsiveness and resolution?

7. How is AF compared to 70d or other EOS-SLR

8. C1 and C2 Custom programs available for having prefered settings available by simply turning one dial. Are both C1 and C2 fully programmable or are there restrictions with some menu items?

some Con's
1. slow UI? I can't believe Canon made the M5 slow ... Hopefully fixed by Firmware Update.

6. Here the same: Bigger batterie would have been better, but maybe they wanted to stay with the same battery type as M3?


----------



## AvTvM (Nov 26, 2016)

Thanks!



Photorex said:


> ...
> 1. slow UI. I expected more from a camera with digic7 (I like the ui of the M more, feels like a step backwards compared to the M).
> ...



could you give a bit more specifics on this one please? 

is it 
* responsiveness of touchschreen? 
* responsivenness of scrolling through menu system and/or selceting settings
* responsiveness when scrolling through images in playback
* general responsiveness in operation and/or AF-lag, shutter lag, etc. 
* other ?

THANKS!

I do have an EOS M 1st gen with close to 40k shutter actuations on it and to me the UI responsiveness is fine. (Shutter lag and AF performance not so). M5 is a purchase candidate. However, if UI is not responsive that is a major con for me.


----------



## JMZawodny (Nov 26, 2016)

Any first impressions on image noise at high ISO?
Any sample images you can share showing the noise?

M5 has really tiny pixels and I suspect ISO 1600 RAW images are going to be noisy


----------



## brad-man (Nov 26, 2016)

JMZawodny said:


> Any first impressions on image noise at high ISO?
> Any sample images you can share showing the noise?
> 
> M5 has really tiny pixels and I suspect ISO 1600 RAW images are going to be noisy



Without trying to be Captain Obvious, it should be very similar (if not identical) to 80D in RAW (same sensor).


----------



## ritholtz (Nov 26, 2016)

brad-man said:


> JMZawodny said:
> 
> 
> > Any first impressions on image noise at high ISO?
> ...


I am hoping to be little better and sharper than 80d without AA filter like M3.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 26, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Thank you so much for giving us your first impressions. May I ask some questions/give some comments?
> 
> some Pro's
> ...
> ...



Pro's
3. I'm very satisfied with the responsivness and the resolution. No complaints here from my side.

7. I'm a shooter who don't need a very sophisticated AF system. For my style of photography the AF System of the 5DMII for example is sufficient. I don't need all this cases or this great amount of AF fields. So maybe I'm not the one who can judge the AF as you may want to have it judged.

8. Just tried to save at least 1 changed menu item from each of the menues, even configured the quickmenu with another layout and changed the button/dial configuration. All was programmable on C1 or C2. Only the items from the menu section with the wrench are not programmable.

Con's
1. It is mainly the switch to playback of the taken pictures. There is a quite remarkable delay in showing the first picture. Maybe this related to my 16GB SD Card (SD HC Class 10). Also storing the pictures from buffer to SD Card when shooting in highspeed mode takes some time. But the second issue I can't compare to the M as I never tried to shoot in highspeed mode with the M.

Frank


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 26, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Thanks!
> 
> could you give a bit more specifics on this one please?
> 
> ...


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 26, 2016)

JMZawodny said:


> Any first impressions on image noise at high ISO?
> Any sample images you can share showing the noise?
> 
> M5 has really tiny pixels and I suspect ISO 1600 RAW images are going to be noisy



1. To be honest. Up to now I did not take much pictures which are worth to be transfered to the PC. I'm just playing around with the new possibilities with all these dials and configurations (It's my first cam with such a huge amount of configurable button and menu layouts). I also do not have a Raw converter other than DPP which I do not have installed.
2. I already took ISO 800 and sometimes even ISO 1600 shots with my M which I printed in fotobooks with 16 inches on the long side. This is normally the biggest print size for non panorama pictures for my purposes. So I do not tend to pixel peeping with test shots for measuring noise. It is simply not an issue for my kind of photography. I would guess that I can easily get along with ISO 3200 shots or above with the M5.

Frank


----------



## Khufu (Nov 26, 2016)

Thanks for posting, Frank! Still all sounds a bit half-baked and a little like it's crawled out of that grey area that lies between patronising, auto-crippling and enthusiast-disrespecting territories; and for an apparent premium/high-price-end product?... *sigh*

Can you clarify that the 3x video crop mode has been left out?

Also, can anyone tell me if it's present on the M3 and/or M10? Love this feature on the M2 and would love to see a 1080p pixel crop from the ~24mp sensor and via a flippy-floppy screen!


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 26, 2016)

Hello Khufu,

don't know, if I understand your question correct as I'm absolutely not in this video thing.

All pictures and video taken from tripod with 55mm focal length same distance between camera and object. I did no cropping in post only scaled all the pictures down to 458 pixels on the long edge while keeping the ratio.

Still picture aspect ratio 3:2






Still picture aspect ratio 16 to 9





Video aspect ratio 16 to 9 (saved as a single picture with the SW Windows MovieMaker)





There is a slightly crop in video mode but for sure no 3x crop.

Frank


----------



## bholliman (Nov 27, 2016)

Photorex said:


> just want to start a thread of first impressions.



Thanks for posting. Fortunately, none of your listed 'cons' are show stoppers for me (at least I don't think so). My M5 is in transit, due to delivery mid next week, so I'll share my impressions when it arrives.


----------



## troy19 (Nov 27, 2016)

Photorex said:


> 8. Just tried to save at least 1 changed menu item from each of the menues, even configured the quickmenu with another layout and changed the button/dial configuration. All was programmable on C1 or C2. Only the items from the menu section with the wrench are not programmable.



Thanks for all the infos, that looks good. I'll love switching between C1 and C2 as my M5 will be used by my wife too, so no more hassle with accidentally changed menus.


----------



## Mario (Nov 27, 2016)

JP4DESIGNZ said:


> With my M3, I can only use Canon's own speedlites & triggers however, any of my off-brand TTL triggers do not work properly (ex: Yongnuo & Godox TTL Equipment). Do you have any off-brand TTL equipment to test with the M5? Everything worked smoothly when I had the original M and M2.



I tried the Yongnuo YN-3E-RT on the M5 and it doesn't work. Putting the Yongnuo 600 on top of the M5 seems to have no problems, apart from the looks of it ;-).

The Yongnuo YN-3E-RT works OK on my 1DXII.

Mario


----------



## troy19 (Nov 27, 2016)

Mario said:


> I tried the Yongnuo YN-3E-RT on the M5 and it doesn't work. Putting the Yongnuo 600 on top of the M5 seems to have no problems


That surprises me. For what I know, the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT is the same as the Yongnuo 600ex RT, just w/o the flash head. As the original Canon E3-RT is the same as the original Canon 600ex RT, just w/o the flash head. 

But thanks to the USB-port, Yongnuo should be able to fix this by firmware update.


----------



## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

[quote ]
...
As the original Canon E3-RT is the same as the original Canon 600ex RT, just w/o the flash head. 
[/quote]

No.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 27, 2016)

Maybe a further con which should be changed with a future firmware update.

I played with the wlan functionality. Connected the cam to my tablet. OK. Startet to send pictures from cam to tablet. works fine also. You can choose if you want to send all pictures, the current one or a certain range of pictures. After sending the pictures I decided to work with the camera conect app on the tablet to take some tethered shots.
I tapped on the menu button of the camera and a dialog appears saying: Disconnect? One can chosse between 'cancel' and 'ok'. if you press 'ok', cam will be disconnected.
I would have expected that I can go back in the menu where I was before I started sending pictures. I think this is a bit strange. If you decide to do other things while connected to the wlan you have to establish the connection again.


----------



## gpp (Nov 28, 2016)

Photorex said:


> Hello Khufu,
> 
> don't know, if I understand your question correct as I'm absolutely not in this video thing.
> 
> Frank



3x crop mode with 1:1 sensor output (full pixel output of a cropped region) in movie mode like 80D? Edit.


----------



## lw (Nov 28, 2016)

gpp said:


> 3x crop mode with 1:1 sensor output (full pixel output of a cropped region) in movie mode like 80D



No. there is no 3x crop mode on the M5 video.


----------



## gpp (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks.


----------



## Zv (Nov 30, 2016)

I had a brief play about with the M5 today during my lunch break. Feels good to hold, the store had the 18-150 lens on and it felt nicely balanced. Shutter sound is OK, could be quieter but feels softer than my M2. EVF was surprisingly nice, I kinda liked it but then again I know nothing about EVFs. I think I could see myself getting one but not just yet. I can wait a while!


----------



## GadgetDave (Nov 30, 2016)

Good Info, thanks!


----------



## Act444 (Nov 30, 2016)

I had a chance to play with a pre-production model myself a couple weeks ago. They didn't let me put a card in, but 1st impressions were relatively positive. The EVF is a really nice touch and I appreciated the additional buttons and dials - felt more like an actual camera and less of a "toy". Two reservations though: price and size. The M10 with 55-200 telephoto JUST squeezes into my small Dashport 30(?) bag - the M5 even with the mini 15-45mm lens was a tighter squeeze (wouldn't fit 18-150 or 55-200). I don't know if there is a similar Dashport bag with a little more depth that could fit M5 w/telephoto, but if I have to use my regular camera bag, I feel I may as well take a 5D. 

Perhaps will wait for an update to the M3 or M10, or a price drop? I dunno yet on this one.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 2, 2016)

JP4DESIGNZ said:


> With my M3, I can only use Canon's own speedlites & triggers however, any of my off-brand TTL triggers do not work properly (ex: Yongnuo & Godox TTL Equipment). Do you have any off-brand TTL equipment to test with the M5? Everything worked smoothly when I had the original M and M2.



Hello JP4DESIGNZ.

Sorry for the late reply. Just hadn't much time to test my Yongnuo 622C Transceivers with the M5. But now I have done this test. Everyhting worked as it should. ETTL, M, 2nd curtain sync, HSS. I tested with M5, two Yongnuo YN 622C transceivers and the 580EXII Speedlite.

regards
Frank


----------



## NorbR (Dec 4, 2016)

I received my M5 this Friday, and have been playing a bit with it this week-end. Photorex already gave a great summary (and yes the first thing I did was try out that AEB drive speed, and indeed it has been fixed, yay ;D ) but I'll add a few points. 

*The good:*


overall the feel is a bit more solid to me than the M3 (just a bit, see below). The screen, in particular, feel much more solidly constructed. 

handling is really good. This is very subjective, but I really like the grip and the ergonomics in general. 2 days with it, and I already feel at home. 

unsurprisingly, the handling is better with adapted EF lenses. The 50mm 1.8 STM is right at home, not sure an EF-M 50mm is needed anymore (Canon if you're reading, I'm just kidding, get back to work on those primes ) The 35mm f2 is borderline, but still quite convenient to handle. I haven't tried anything else yet, those are the two lenses that I expect to use on the M5 with any sort of regularity

extremely customizable. A big part of this is due to the Touch and Drag AF, which works beautifully, and frees up the 4-way dial (which I otherwise always set up for direct AF point selection) for a bunch of functions. That, plus the rest of the buttons, plus the Dial Func. button which is extremely convenient, make for a very high level of customizability

the M3 had this weird thing that previews on the camera screen were not really sharp. I can't really explain it, but I know it has been observed by others on this forum. On the M5, this is gone. Pin sharp when zooming it at 1:1. 


*The not-so-good:*


it still feels a bit plasticky, around the grip in particular. Pressing the buttons feels very plasticky, almost squeaky, the grip itself feels like I might crush it if I squeeze too hard (ok that's a bit of hyperbole, but it's not the most solid feel). Like I said above, a bit better than the M3, but still not feeling rock solid (like the original M was). 

I can confirm that time to review is disappointingly slow. It takes about 1 to 2 seconds for the first image to be displayed after pressing the review button. I can't recall the M3 being that slow ... (and this is with a SanDisk Extreme Pro card). Otherwise the UI feels very reminiscent of the M3. And yes, it's a bit sluggish at times, and the original M was better from that point of view. 

battery life - maybe it belongs in the category below, it's clearly too soon to tell anything about it, and resting a camera is not the easiest thing on the battery, lots of screen time going through menus ... but still, I'm unimpressed for now. Not surprising, this is essentially an M3 with an extra EVF, and the M3 was already a mediocre performer in that category. 

*The can't-say-anything-about-it-yet:*


IQ. Sorry. Jury's still out. But from first JPEGs I see nothing to complain about. I wasn't worried anyway. Looking forward to Lightroom support so that I can play with it more.


----------



## archiea (Dec 4, 2016)

Hey gang, question on shutter lag (without af).

On the M1/M3 you have single / motor drive. Motor drive can take quick 4/7fps bursts respectively. However I often use single frame shooting mode with a manual rangefinder lens (i.e. Any af lag irelevant). I shoot firing the shutter often while manually focusing. You would think a camera than can shoot 7 or even 4 fps can keep up with me. My 5D mark 3, heck even my old 20d was very responsive with its shutter release respone, thus beginning my love affair with dslrs. However the m3 is not, reminding me of some of the early "turn of the century" digital cameras. 

In single frame mode, the m3 has a shutter delay even with af off! Poweshots have a similar problem, adding to my belief that the m3 has poweshot guts, hence the slow ui. When I shoot repeated single frame shutter releases, the m3 warms up and the level indicator freezes! Its not rebel performance or even the ancient 20D performance. Sony and fuji don't have that problem.

The problem appears that the m3 can't chew gum and walk. It can shoot to buffer in drive mode, THEN dump to card with a wait, but it cant shoot->write, shoot->write and the speed of the shutter release. And i'm talking from the first frame on not 5 frames in or something. This is a fundalmental flaw with the whole m line it seems. 

I cant get this verified with the m5 because all videos show it in either motor drive or with the AF enable. Can someone here check and see if there is a shutter lag in the m5 in single shot mode AND with the af OFF. Thanks a bunch!


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 5, 2016)

Photorex said:


> 7. no build in intervalometer (but it can be triggered with an external remote control).



correction to this one:
There is a time lapse functionality in video mode. But it is limited to some degree.
The camera itself finishes the time lapse video. You do not need to do that in post. You are getting a video out of cam.
The longest interval time between two shots can be 30 sec. and the highest count of pictures taken is 900. This results in a max. video length of 36 sek.

regards
Frank


----------



## bholliman (Dec 6, 2016)

I've had my M5 for 5 days now, and still haven't had time to do any expensive shooting with it. I did take a few dozen shots of the kids playing outside yesterday and was pleased with the auto focus hit rate in servo mode. My keeper rate was very good for still trying to figure out how to use the camera.

There is a noticeable lag when viewing images on the lcd screen, but not enough to be an issue for me. 

This evening, I took some bracketed tripod shots of the sunset with the 15-45mm kit lens that turned out very nice from what I can tell from the jpg's. I'll open up DPP tonight and see what I can do with the RAW files (looking forward to the Adobe LR update).


----------



## Frodo (Dec 6, 2016)

archiea said:


> Hey gang, question on shutter lag (without af).
> ...
> In single frame mode, the m3 has a shutter delay even with af off!



Just tried this with my M3. 18-55mm with AF off. No lag to speak of.


----------



## overniven (Dec 7, 2016)

Is the M5 better with adapted lenses than the M3 was? I couldn't use my 70-200 F4. It's focusing was very very slow.


----------



## crashpc (Dec 7, 2016)

Night and day overniven, night and day...


----------



## d (Dec 9, 2016)

I'm yet to see any info on whether the M5 exhibits the same amount of vignetting as the M3, M2, M etc, or has managed to reduce this. Can anyone comment or has read something somewhere?

d.


----------



## photogdan (Dec 9, 2016)

d said:


> I'm yet to see any info on whether the M5 exhibits the same amount of vignetting as the M3, M2, M etc, or has managed to reduce this. Can anyone comment or has read something somewhere?
> 
> d.



I've only had mine for a couple of hours but I haven't noticed any vignetting issue. I haven't done specific tests, just a few sample shots. Then again it wasn't an issue for me on the M or M3.

What did jump out at me immediately is the improved dynamic range and noise performance over the M and M3. Maybe I'm just excited about a new toy but the IQ seems to be a very nice improvement over the M3.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 9, 2016)

d said:


> I'm yet to see any info on whether the M5 exhibits the same amount of vignetting as the M3, M2, M etc, or has managed to reduce this. Can anyone comment or has read something somewhere?
> 
> d.



Vignetting is an attribute of lenses only. Has noting to do with the cam/sensor behind the lens. The M5 has an aps-c sensor with the same physical dimensions as the M's before and the distance to the mount is also the same. Why should any vignetting (caused by the lenses) has gone away with the M5? That's physical not possible.

Frank


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 9, 2016)

Photorex said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > I'm yet to see any info on whether the M5 exhibits the same amount of vignetting as the M3, M2, M etc, or has managed to reduce this. Can anyone comment or has read something somewhere?
> ...


Except it is. The short flange distance of the M series means that light hitting the corners and edges of the sensor does so at a more oblique angle (away from the normal, which is the ideal), than is the case with longer-flange-diatance DSLRs. This means that less of the light makes it to the photodiodes underneath the microlenses and the colour filters.

I think I read that Leica addressed this in their own M-series rangefinder digital cameras, which also have a short flange distance, by modifying the microlenses at the edges and corners of the sensor, to increase the amount of light that gets to the photodiodes.

Without such measures, what you see is vignetting.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 9, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > Vignetting is an attribute of lenses only. Has noting to do with the cam/sensor behind the lens. The M5 has an aps-c sensor with the same physical dimensions as the M's before and the distance to the mount is also the same. Why should any vignetting (caused by the lenses) has gone away with the M5? That's physical not possible.
> ...



But one can not expect that this kind of vigentting is getting better with the M5 in respect to the M3 or M without changing this flange distance and therefor introducing yet another mount. EF-M is EF-M, same lenses same sensor sizes, same flange distances -> no change in the kind of vignetting you described. It is inherent within the M system.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 9, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> ...
> I think I read that Leica addressed this in their own M-series rangefinder digital cameras, which also have a short flange distance, by modifying the microlenses at the edges and corners of the sensor, to increase the amount of light that gets to the photodiodes.



don#t you think Canon might be doing this as well?


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 9, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Yes, they may very well be. And I hope they are. And I hope it's being done physically, to the microlenses, rather than just in software/firmware.


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 9, 2016)

Photorex said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > Photorex said:
> ...


Not true. Canon *could* have modified the faceting of the microlenses on the M5 sensor, to reduce the vignetting effect, by increasing the amount of light reaching the photodiodes on the periphery.

Whether they *have* done so, I do not know.


----------



## dak723 (Dec 10, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > Fleetie said:
> ...



There has been some speculation that this is the same sensor as the 80D, in which case the vignetting will be no better than previous M models, and I have also seen some speculation that this is a new sensor that is made especially for the M and its shorter flange distance. Hopefully, we will know soon!


----------



## crashpc (Dec 10, 2016)

They might optimize the 80D sensor too, so it would work for all cameas. Just a guess.

I rather wonder what happened here:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eosm5&attr13_1=canon_eosm3&attr13_2=canon_eos5dmkii&attr13_3=canon_eos80d&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&attr171_2=off&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-1.0734743272056706&y=0.9888392857142858


----------



## d (Dec 11, 2016)

Photorex said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > I'm yet to see any info on whether the M5 exhibits the same amount of vignetting as the M3, M2, M etc, or has managed to reduce this. Can anyone comment or has read something somewhere?
> ...



You're incorrect.


----------



## d (Dec 11, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> ...Canon *could* have modified the faceting of the microlenses on the M5 sensor, to reduce the vignetting effect, by increasing the amount of light reaching the photodiodes on the periphery.
> 
> Whether they *have* done so, I do not know.



Yes, I was hoping they might be doing something like this.


----------



## d (Dec 11, 2016)

crashpc said:


> They might optimize the 80D sensor too, so it would work for all cameas. Just a guess.
> 
> I rather wonder what happened here:
> https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eosm5&attr13_1=canon_eosm3&attr13_2=canon_eos5dmkii&attr13_3=canon_eos80d&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&attr171_2=off&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-1.0734743272056706&y=0.9888392857142858



Looks OOF.


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 11, 2016)

d said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > ...Canon *could* have modified the faceting of the microlenses on the M5 sensor, to reduce the vignetting effect, by increasing the amount of light reaching the photodiodes on the periphery.
> ...


So am I. But I suspect that if any vignetting-compensation is going on, then it's being done in firmware.
But we can hope!

At any rate, even the M3 is not sh*t. I'm glad I bought mine.


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 11, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > Fleetie said:
> ...


Well, thinking about it a bit more:

Does the M5 even *need* such compensation?

The effect would be greatest (I think) with ultra-fast, wide-aperture lenses, like the 85/1.2L .
But you can only use (say) that lens with the adaptor anyway. So the short flange-distance is a non-issue with any EF-fitting lens, because of that adaptor.

And how many fast EF-M lenses are there? None. f/2 is not fast.

This whole thing could be a non-issue, really.

EDIT: Well, with the official Canon lenses, anyway. I have the Samyang 50/T1.3 in EF-M fitting, which is a nice light-bucket. But I have certainly never tried to study or investigate its vignetting. I used it to take a photo of my sister's nice garden at night, lit by a few solar-powered LED lights. The result was as good as I could have hoped for, given that it was hand-held. I couldn't've cared less about any vignetting that I didn't even notice anyway. If it was there, it was irrelevant to the picture. But yes, it may have been there.


----------



## crashpc (Dec 11, 2016)

Samyang does f/1.2 lenses for M mount, Mitakon lenses are f/0.95. Native.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 11, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> ... I have the Samyang 50/T1.3 in EF-M fitting, which is a nice light-bucket.
> ...
> I used it to take a photo of my sister's nice garden at night, lit by a few solar-powered LED lights. The result was as good as I could have hoped for, *given that it was hand-held.*



wtf? For a garden at night, non-moving subject I'd use my nice little tripod and stop down my cheap and oh so excellent 50/1.8 STM all the way to f/5.6 and get a technically way better image. 

Will never understand people buying manual focus f/1.2 crop-only lenses in order to photograph non-moving subjects at night ... HAND HELD ... :


----------



## dak723 (Dec 11, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > d said:
> ...



Photozone's testing reveals that Canon's M-lenses on the M3 are very poor in terms of vignetting - at pretty much any aperture. For me, it is a non-issue as I normally enable the lens correction features or correct in RAW. Here's what they found with the 15-45mm lens on the M3:

Unfortunately vignetting is a massive weakness - again. We have seen this problem in our previous EF-M reviews so by now we are pretty confident to state that this isn't solely a lens issue. It seems as if Canon just took their APS-C sensor developed for some of their DSLRs and this just wasn't the smartest thing to do due to much closer distance to the lens' rear element. It seems as if the sensor doesn't like the more extreme light angles towards the corners.

The "raw" light falloff is shockingly high. At 15mm @ f.3.5, the Canon lens holds the new negative record (again) with a whopping 3.6EV(!!!). This is more than double our usual scale for APS-C format lenses! Even at f/11, you can observe a falloff of ~1.4EV (f-stops). The situation isn't quite as bad at 28mm where f/5.6 is sufficient to solve most of the issue. At 45mm it isn't overly relevant anymore.

Consequently you should leave the vignetting auto-correction activated although you'll have to live with increased corner noise at the wide-end in this case.[/quote]


----------



## bholliman (Dec 12, 2016)

dak723 said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > Fleetie said:
> ...


[/quote]

Isn't increased vignetting one of the compromises that has to me made to keep the M-series lenses small and light? If so, I'm OK with it - small and light is why have have my M5 kit. I appreciate my little EF-M 15-45 lens because it is tiny and covers the standard zoom range. If I'm not willing to live with some vignette, I can always use my L lenses with the M adapter.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 12, 2016)

For me, vignette is really a minor problem. However 15-45 is sub-par though. 18-55 is far better. The little difference in size is worth it (to me).


----------



## weixing (Dec 13, 2016)

Hi,
Got my hand on the M5 and this my quick initial impression.

Feel solid when using small lens, but when use with heavy lens (EF 100-400 II), it feel plasticky... I usually hold very firmly on the camera when using heavy lens, so feel like I might break the camera... may be too used to 7D2 solid feeling... ha ha ha 

Also, the UI is quite fast especially if you use the touch screen. Browsing image speed is ok... may be the few test images I shoot is RAW. My hand is not big, but I still feel the body is too small to use back-button focusing comfortably. Touch and drag AF work very well especially if you use the shutter button for AF.

The only thing I don't like is the shutter button half-press feel... you need to press a bit further to activate the half-press... may be too used to the 7D half-press feel.

Anyway, will bring out this weekend for birding with my EF 100-400 II and see how "bad" it'll perform... 

Have a nice day.


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 13, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > ... I have the Samyang 50/T1.3 in EF-M fitting, which is a nice light-bucket.
> ...




1) I was visiting my sister, hundreds of miles from where I live. THERE WAS NO TRIPOD.
2) Well, I had the 50/T1.3 or the 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 . Which of those lenses would you expect me to use in the dark?!


And finally, 


3) It is a matter of superlative indifference to me, whether or not you "understand" my lens choices!
As a matter of fact, I rather like the Samyang 50/T1.3 lens.


----------



## dcm (Dec 17, 2016)

Ordered the M5 from Canon with the 18-150 earlier this week, received this morning. Reminds me of the early G series in size, but much more capable. Got use to the handling and controls today and am pleased. 

Already have a M and M3 with all the lenses other than the 15-45. The 18-150 is a more useful range for me with the 11-22 and 22 or 28 in my bag. The handling is very nice with the 18-150. Swapped for the 135L and was quite pleased with the combo in my hand. Same for the 100L and 40. The 100-400LII handled better than expected, both on a monopod and handheld. Even the Tamron 150-600 seems ok. The slightly larger body and grip of the M5 makes a better combo then the M with large lenses - much closer to the 6D than I expected but still quite a bit different from the 1DX2. Not bad, just different. Focusing seemed pretty fast and accurate with all of the lenses I tried - the Tamron still needs a firmware update (expected) so it was MF only like the M3.

Poor lighting today meant high ISO on some random shots in the backyard and indoors so its a little early to comment about image quality. Hope to have some opportunities to shoot with it in the next week, depends on the weather. Really need to see how the AF works with a grandkid running around the back yard. 

So far I like was I see - a solid upgrade to the M3. I'm guessing I can retire the 6D for everything but low light at this point and focus on the M5 and 1DX2 for all my other needs.


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 17, 2016)

dcm said:


> Ordered the M5 from Canon with the 18-150 earlier this week, received this morning. Reminds me of the early G series in size, but much more capable. Got use to the handling and controls today and am pleased.
> 
> Already have a M and M3 with all the lenses other than the 15-45. The 18-150 is a more useful range for me with the 11-22 and 22 or 28 in my bag. The handling is very nice with the 18-150. Swapped for the 135L and was quite pleased with the combo in my hand. Same for the 100L and 40. The 100-400LII handled better than expected, both on a monopod and handheld. Even the Tamron 150-600 seems ok. The slightly larger body and grip of the M5 makes a better combo then the M with large lenses - much closer to the 6D than I expected but still quite a bit different from the 1DX2. Not bad, just different. Focusing seemed pretty fast and accurate with all of the lenses I tried - the Tamron still needs a firmware update (expected) so it was MF only like the M3.
> 
> ...


WANT your opinion on the 18-150mm, please!
GIVE GIVE GIVE!!!
Enjoy! Thanks!


----------



## troy19 (Dec 17, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> WANT your opinion on the 18-150mm, please!
> GIVE GIVE GIVE!!!


1. Here you are. Here's a set of testshots:

https://www.magentacloud.de/share/rpsdozsw44

Use pw "m5m5m5". 

Done with 70d, M5, EF-M 11-22, EF-M 18-150 and Sigma 18-35. All manual focus with 10x magnification at the wooden "desk".

Got my M5 and EF-M the 18-150 just yesterday, had to wait 3 months 


2. Menue system is very familiar coming from 70d.

3. Attaching a tripod adapter is a bit tricky b/c there's little space to the battery door. Luckily Sirui TY-50E fits when mounted 90° rotated. Put the Sigma 18-35 with mount adapator on the M5 and then mounted that Combo on a tripod with the afore mentioned Sirui TY-50E. I was not in fear breaking the body  All looked safe and stable.

4. M5: It's tiny. Very tiny. Handgrip is massive enough tough, but could be longer. I have midsized hands, but felt the grip even on the 70d was too short so I added a batterie grip. A grip extension for the M5 is high on my wishlist. But I guess Canon won't make one, but maybe sometimes there will be a third party one. Like the Canon Grip Extension GR-60.

5. BTW EF-M 18-150 lacks the retraction position from the 11-22 or the 28 macro. It's nice to be able to shoot immideately and not pressing a knob first 

6. Sometimes I pressed the little knobs on the back of the M5 accidentally, i.e.the video recording button :-(. But that's the same with all those tiny cams ...


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 17, 2016)

troy19 said:


> 6. Sometimes I pressed the little knobs on the back of the M5 accidentally, i.e.the video recording button :-(. But that's the same with all those tiny cams ...


Exactly the same with me.
I changed the function of the video recording button to the self timer function. So I do not waste card space by mistake. And I was missing the direct access to the self timer function anyway on the dial where it is on the original M.

Frank


----------



## troy19 (Dec 17, 2016)

Photorex said:


> I changed the function of the video recording button to the self timer function. So I do not waste card space by mistake. And I was missing the direct access to the self timer function anyway on the dial where it is on the original M.


Hey, I just discovered, that it is possible to disable the function of a button completely. Nice!


----------



## bholliman (Dec 17, 2016)

Overall, I'm very pleased with my M5 purchase. I've been using it exclusively for the past 10 days and its doing great! It addresses all my complaints with the original M1. IQ is excellent and I've been pleasantly surprised with the auto focus.



troy19 said:


> ...It's tiny. Very tiny. Handgrip is massive enough tough, but could be longer. I have midsized hands, but felt the grip even on the 70d was too short so I added a batterie grip. A grip extension for the M5 is high on my wishlist. But I guess Canon won't make one, but maybe sometimes there will be a third party one. Like the Canon Grip Extension GR-60.



+1 The grip is much, much better than the M1, but after using full frame bodies primarily for several years, griping the camera with 3 to 4 fingers feels a little strange. A grip extension would be nice for extended use, probably not when just carrying around for outings.



Photorex said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > 6. Sometimes I pressed the little knobs on the back of the M5 accidentally, i.e.the video recording button :-(. But that's the same with all those tiny cams ...
> ...



Same here... I was hitting the wrong buttons accidentally frequently my first few days with the camera, but some reconfiguration of buttons/dials and added practice and things are going well now.

I'm curious to hear more about the 18-150 lens as well. I currently have the 22, 15-45 and 55-200 which covers about everything I need on this camera except UWA. I'm thinking about swapping the 15-45 and 55-200 for a 11-22 and 18-150 down the road. I'd also like to pickup one of the new EF-M macro lenses.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 17, 2016)

bholliman said:


> I'd also like to pickup one of the new EF-M macro lenses.



lens*es*? I know of only one: EF-M 28/3.5 IS STM Macro


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Dec 17, 2016)

Just finished a short drive to do my first M5 shoot & learn shots. Did a few with the kit 15-45, then attached the 70-200L 2.8 IS.
As with the other first impressions, the close proximity of buttons was a bit of a zoo at first. Seriously considering some button reassignments.
I really like the ability to move the focus point on the touch screen while looking through the viewfinder.
The diopter adjustment is funky and fine adjustment requires some patience. 
Down loading the photos now. I set the format for large raw & jpg.
Another type of USB cable to keep track of now. At least the 5DS & 5D IV are the same.
Maybe I'll post some unedited jpg's as a reference.


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 17, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > WANT your opinion on the 18-150mm, please!
> ...


Thank-you.

Maybe a bit soft at 150mm, but not unusable. I'd be interested to see more.

Thank-you again.

Enjoy your new gear!


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Dec 18, 2016)

Sun came out later this afternoon, so off to get used to the M5.
I used my old 70-200L f2.8 IS and a Vello adapter. 
These are unedited JPG's. AV priority, ISO 100 handheld.



Canon M5 + 70-300L f2.8 IS 0072 web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr



Canon M5 + 70-300L f2.8 IS 0065 web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr



Canon M5 + 70-300L f2.8 IS 0060 web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr



Canon M5 + 70-300L f2.8 IS 0053 web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr



Canon M5 + 70-300L f2.8 IS 0041 web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr



Canon M5 + 70-300L f2.8 IS 0112 web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


----------



## bod (Dec 18, 2016)

Manual Focus
The M5 manual (page 81-82) provides information on shooting in manual focus mode including displaying the magnification frame and focus peaking. Any advice on:
1.	When you display a magnification frame (x5 or x10) do you see this when looking through the EVF or is the magnification frame only seen on the tilt screen? 
2.	Same question for focus peaking display?
3.	Any other feedback on MF with the M5?
Thanks


----------



## Al Chemist (Dec 18, 2016)

Hi bod,
The EVF shows the magnification and focus peaking.
I gave my M and 18-55 and 22mm lenses to my Grandson so only have the 11-22 which worked perfectly with manual focusing and focus peaking. 

I tried the Zeiss 100 MP using the Canon adaptor and it worked great with the focus peaking.
I"m impressed by the camera so far. 

Should be perfect for those 6-8 mile hikes when I don't want to pack 15 plus pounds of big camera gear (I seem to be getting pretty old). Always was impressed by the "mighty M" both with size and image quality and although this is a bit bigger, the improvements are also a lot bigger.


----------



## troy19 (Dec 18, 2016)

bod said:


> Manual Focus
> The M5 manual (page 81-82) provides information on shooting in manual focus mode including displaying the magnification frame and focus peaking. Any advice on:
> 1.	When you display a magnification frame (x5 or x10) do you see this when looking through the EVF or is the magnification frame only seen on the tilt screen?
> 2.	Same question for focus peaking display?
> ...


Yes, magnification and focus peaking works both with EVF and tilt screen. These tools are a joy to use. I.e. you can touch focus at an outer focus point on the screen, half press the shutter and then turn the lens focus ring and the 5x magnifcation and focus peaking automatically starts. This is so great, I never could focus this reliable before. I'm very impressed (But that may be because it's my first mirrorless).

Well, focus rings on EF-M lenses are very small, but at least they are all at the same position (ref. to 11-22, 18-150 anf 28 macro), that means right at the front of the lens, so you can reach MF without problem, even when looking through EVF.


----------



## Sporgon (Dec 18, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > I'd also like to pickup one of the new EF-M macro lenses.
> ...



No, they have definitely made more than one. I know two people who both have one for a start.


----------



## NorbR (Dec 18, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> The diopter adjustment is funky and fine adjustment requires some patience.



Funky is putting it mildly ... That thing is downright impossible to adjust precisely 
Not too much of a problem, since this is a one-time adjustment, but that's another fine example of fixing something that wasn't broken (why couldn't they use the wheel that works just fine on every other camera?) :


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Dec 18, 2016)

The only annoying this so far is trying to expand a photo while the LCD is tilted up. The eye to viewfinder detection turns off the LCD. It took me a few tries to finger that one out.
The "Touch to Drag" AF button is a bit awkward for big fingers, so I might reassign that one.
Accidentally started a video recording- another big finger issue. Reminds me of my first attempts with my G12.


----------



## troy19 (Dec 19, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > Fleetie said:
> ...



Here's a 2nd set of testshots from a walk in the town. Had 1 hour spare time while the kids were at the movies 

https://www.magentacloud.de/share/x4kz7bzffh

Use pw "m5m5m5". 

2nd set seams to be better because of shorter shutter speeds compared to the first set.

It's so great to travel with lightweight equipment. Downside is very short battery life. M5 ran out of power after 1 hour (ok, battery was not fully loaded, about 80% I guess), but that's way too short, even considering low temperature +5°C.


----------



## bod (Dec 20, 2016)

Hi AI Chemist and troy19

Thanks for the information on MF with the M5 which sounds interesting. I will try to get my hands on an M5 to try the M5 EVF out.


----------



## Fleetie (Dec 20, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > troy19 said:
> ...


Thanks for posting those photos.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Dec 20, 2016)

ISO 3200 1/40th
I find the M5's tilting touch screen is really good. I can see a future for EVF and the touch to focus LCD in a full frame setup- maybe along the 6D line. The EVF technology is getting very good now. In the early days, it just totally sucked to a point of turning me off to any future purchase of any camera with a EVF. 



Bella relaxing Canon EOS M5 0216 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


----------



## troy19 (Dec 22, 2016)

troy19 said:


> It's so great to travel with lightweight equipment. Downside is very short battery life. M5 ran out of power after 1 hour (ok, battery was not fully loaded, about 80% I guess), but that's way too short, even considering low temperature +5°C.


Have to add an info from my retailer: battery will reach max. capacity after 5 - 8 loading cycles only. So here's hope


----------



## Act444 (Dec 23, 2016)

Took another peak at the M5 in the store today...

M5 owners, is there a way to disable the LCD screen altogether and use ONLY the viewfinder to shoot? In other words, when you pull the camera away from your face, the LCD does NOT come back on? Neither I nor the rep could figure it out...seems like you can show the "Q" screen but can't turn it completely off (e.g., to save battery).


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Dec 24, 2016)

Act444 said:


> Took another peak at the M5 in the store today...
> 
> M5 owners, is there a way to disable the LCD screen altogether and use ONLY the viewfinder to shoot? In other words, when you pull the camera away from your face, the LCD does NOT come back on? Neither I nor the rep could figure it out...seems like you can show the "Q" screen but can't turn it completely off (e.g., to save battery).



Yes. Menu/display setting/manual
The LCD will be disabled. The viewfinder will display the menu and playback.


----------



## Act444 (Dec 24, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Act444 said:
> 
> 
> > Took another peak at the M5 in the store today...
> ...



Great. Thanks for the response- I was hoping they'd thought of this!


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 24, 2016)

Does anyone know how to change setting such that when I tap on touch screen it will focus? Right now I have to touch and half-press shutter to focus. I don't mean touch and shoot. That I know how to enable. I want touch to focus like the 80d. 


Also, does anyone have problems with the grip? When I got my first m5, I noticed that the bottom of the camera grip, if squeezed a little harder, I get a small squeaky noise. There seems to be very small movement within the grip. I got my second m5 yesterday. This time it's not as bad but still noticeable. I wonder if I got two bad copies in a row, or am I being too critical of the build quality? I wonder if I should get a third one to try...


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 24, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> Does anyone know how to change setting such that when I tap on touch screen it will focus? Right now I have to touch and half-press shutter to focus. I don't mean touch and shoot. That I know how to enable. I want touch to focus like the 80d.



I just searched for this functionality in every single menu. But I couldn't find it. Seems as it is not possible to touch to focus with the M5. You need to half-press the shutter to focus.

Frank


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 24, 2016)

So far I can only tap to focus in movie mode. This sucks. Focusing in 80d liveview is a one finger operation. 



Photorex said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know how to change setting such that when I tap on touch screen it will focus? Right now I have to touch and half-press shutter to focus. I don't mean touch and shoot. That I know how to enable. I want touch to focus like the 80d.
> ...


----------



## StudentOfLight (Dec 24, 2016)

Personal preference, but I found the grip to be too small. It felt a bit uncomfortable for me.


----------



## AlanF (Dec 24, 2016)

I have only done a few shots so far but I am very impressed. The IQ is between that of my 7DII and 5DS R. It is refreshing not to have to AFMA lenses, the consistency of AF is 100% and there is the absence of shutter shock. I liked my old original M, given to my grandson this afternoon, but the AF on the M5 is a vast improvement as well as having a built-in EVF. It's going to be a nice carry around complement to my 5DIV and 5DS R, which are essential for my bird photography, but the 7DII is going to go along with the bigger EF-S lenses as I can't justify 2 FF bodies plus the the 7DII. (Good price to CR members!)


----------



## troy19 (Dec 25, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> So far I can only tap to focus in movie mode.



sunnyVan, tap to focus does extremely well in photo AND movie mode. It's a real pleasure to use. Worked with my 70d and of course with the M5.

Did you check "menue / wrench #3 / Touch". There are 3 settings (standard, sensitive, deactivate). Don't know the exact english translations, sorry.

But maybe I don't get your point?


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 25, 2016)

I've used 80d before. With 80d in still picture liveview, i can tap on the screen to focus. I was expecting the same thing in m5. But so far with m5 in still picture mode (Tv, Av, M, etc), I have to tap and then half press shutter in order to focus. The only mode that would allow me to tap to focus is movie mode. I don't know whether I have the settings wrong or it's just designed this way. 




troy19 said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > So far I can only tap to focus in movie mode.
> ...


----------



## ninjapeps (Dec 25, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> So far I can only tap to focus in movie mode.


The closest I've found is when continuous focus is turned on. I don't think that's what you're looking for but that's what I know is available.


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 25, 2016)

I factory reset the camera and now it's kind of doing what I wanted it to do, which is tap and focus. 
I have to enable continuous focus, which I previously intentionally disabled. This is going drain battery fast so I have to disable it anyway. So I guess this is the way it was designed.


----------



## AlanF (Dec 25, 2016)

How many shots are you getting per battery charge?


----------



## troy19 (Dec 25, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> I factory reset the camera and now it's kind of doing what I wanted it to do, which is tap and focus.
> I have to enable continuous focus, which I previously intentionally disabled. This is going drain battery fast so I have to disable it anyway. So I guess this is the way it was designed.



Double checked and can confirm my M5 touchfocuses in Av-mode equally in "one shot"-mode and in "servo"-mode with EF-M 18-150. Did you use EF-M lenses or EF oder EF-S lenses with adaptor?


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 25, 2016)

I am using native efm lenses. They all behave the same way. The only way to touch focus is to enable continuous focus from the menu. Can you disable this and see whether your m5 can still touch focus?



troy19 said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > I factory reset the camera and now it's kind of doing what I wanted it to do, which is tap and focus.
> ...


----------



## troy19 (Dec 25, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> Can you disable this and see whether your m5 can still touch focus?



Thanks for the info. After disabling "Continious AF" touchfocussing is disabled too. It is as you described: Shutter release then has to be half pressed to focus. This behaviar is documented in manual chapter Modus P / Focussing / Changing focus setup and the given reason is saving battery. So obviously Canon crippled this 80d-function


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 25, 2016)

So to summarize: touch tap autofocus is 
* only enabled together with continuous AF mode [high battery drain] 
* disabled in non-continuous AF mode [low battery drain] 
does not make any sense at all ...

Only exactly opposite configuration could have helped conserve some battery charge ... 

Stupid, Canon.


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 25, 2016)

That's a step backwards from the m3. 



AvTvM said:


> So to summarize: touch tap autofocus is
> * only enabled together with continuous AF mode [high battery drain]
> * disabled in non-continuous AF mode [low battery drain]
> does not make any sense at all ...
> ...


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 25, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Thanks for the info. After disabling "Continious AF" touchfocussing is disabled too. It is as you described: Shutter release then has to be half pressed to focus. This behaviar is documented in manual chapter Modus P / Focussing / Changing focus setup and the given reason is saving battery. So obviously Canon crippled this 80d-function



From Canons point of view it's only logical, because the 80D does have a "bigger" battery. So they can avoid M5 customer complaints about the fast drain of the battery.
I'm missing the green confirmation frame when touch focussing. The green frame is only displayed when focussing by half-press the shutter release button. But I rarely use continuos AF.

Frank


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 25, 2016)

Photorex said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info. After disabling "Continious AF" touchfocussing is disabled too. It is as you described: Shutter release then has to be half pressed to focus. This behaviar is documented in manual chapter Modus P / Focussing / Changing focus setup and the given reason is saving battery. So obviously Canon crippled this 80d-function
> ...



No, there is NO logic at all!

Canon ENABLES touch-tap-AF in M5 with battery draining continuous-AF. 
Canon DISABLES touch-tap-AF in M5 with battery-saving continuous-AF turned OFF. 

go figure. Stupid Canon.


----------



## dak723 (Dec 26, 2016)

Been using the M5 for about a week - although the weather has been terrible and haven't been able to test it too much. IQ seems quite good for any outdoor shooting. Took some side-by-side shots with the M5 and the 6D and the images were hard to tell apart. Love the size and weight using the small lenses (using the ef-m 18-55mm and 11-22mm). 

The only thing that is bothering me is the exposure metering. To get the proper exposure on my outdoor shots, I find that I am overexposing anywhere from 1 to 2 stops to get the correct exposure. I need to do more testing, but was wondering if any others that have the new camera are finding the same results. It's no big deal, I suppose, to just keep my exposure compensation dial set to +1 as my default or starting point, but would feel more comfortable somehow if "0" was the correct exposure most of the time! Tried both evaluative and center weighted exposure with similar results. Scenes were pretty straightforward - not really tricky lighting.


----------



## troy19 (Dec 26, 2016)

Photorex said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info. After disabling "Continious AF" touchfocussing is disabled too. It is as you described: Shutter release then has to be half pressed to focus. This behaviar is documented in manual chapter Modus P / Focussing / Changing focus setup and the given reason is saving battery. So obviously Canon crippled this 80d-function
> ...


Maybe in future firmware Canon gives us the choice to enable touchfocus in all AF-modes. Same with coloured frames when touchfocussing. I'm convinced Canon is collecting user opinions and implement some of them in future firmware 1.1.  

In the meantime I enjoy shooting with the M5


----------



## bod (Dec 26, 2016)

Hi again troy19

[/quote]These tools are a joy to use. I.e. you can touch focus at an outer focus point on the screen, half press the shutter and then turn the lens focus ring and the 5x magnifcation and focus peaking automatically starts.[/quote]

I tried out MF on a M5 in store and got it to work as described in the manual and shown in the attached image. However I did not succeed in getting magnification to work automatically as you have. Did you need to change some settings via menu or does this automatic behaviour occur when you take subsequent shots after you have set it up for the first shot ? The store camera did not have a memory card installed so possibly this may have made a difference also.

Thanks again for your help.


----------



## troy19 (Dec 26, 2016)

bod said:


> I tried out MF on a M5 in store and got it to work as described in the manual and shown in the attached image. However I did not succeed in getting magnification to work automatically as you have. Did you need to change some settings via menu or does this automatic behaviour occur when you take subsequent shots after you have set it up for the first shot ? The store camera did not have a memory card installed so possibly this may have made a difference also.



M5 has 3 different focus modes: AF, MF and AF+MF.

AF-mode: M5 focusses automatically only. No manual override possible. Lenses focus ring is deactivated. Magnification can be set manually as shown in your excerpt from the user manual.

MF-mode: M5 focusses manually only by turning the lenses focus ring. Magnification can be set manually as shown in your excerpt from the user manual.

AF+MF: M5 focusses automatically at first. But you can do a manual override by turning the lens focus ring. Magnification then automatically jumps in at 5x.

Hope this helps 

(AF+MF is the focussing method I use the most).


----------



## bod (Dec 27, 2016)

Yes very helpful as I had not picked this up from reading the manual and in limited time in the store it is hard to try everything out. I will go back to the store and try this out. I can see why AF + MF would be your most used focus mode as this ability to AF and then fine tune with MF over ride with EVF auto zoom feature is very appealing and sounds to be very useful. I will try the in store EFM lens on the body and then my Zeiss 50 f2 MF lens with the EFM adaptor to see how it works with third party lenses.

Thanks again for all your feedback on the M5.


----------



## Stefan Keller (Dec 27, 2016)

*M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*

when shooting dark scenes (eg 1/10 F4.5 ISO 6400 with the 11-22) and using flash
the M5 needs up to 2-3 seconds when pressing the shutter all the way down immediately,
even when Focus is set to manual and when flash is set to manual so that no preflash is fired

In the same scene without flash or in brighter scenes this does not occur.

I tested this with several lenses, ( even without lens), with the internal and with external flash
I also tried "all" settings which could have an influence, and reset-ted the Camera

if you press the shutter half way for that time it fires immediately

we talked about that here (in German) http://www.dslr-forum.de/showthread.php?t=1757553

Canon Germany confirmed that in a mail http://www.dslr-forum.de/showpost.php?p=14347856&postcount=43 from today...


----------



## Act444 (Dec 27, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



Stefan Keller said:


> when shooting dark scenes (eg 1/10 F4.5 ISO 6400 with the 11-22) and using flash
> the M5 needs up to 2-3 seconds when pressing the shutter all the way down immediately,
> even when Focus is set to manual and when flash is set to manual so that no preflash is fired
> 
> ...



The M10 has the same issue. Sorry to hear that there's been no improvement in this area...


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 27, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



Act444 said:


> Stefan Keller said:
> 
> 
> > when shooting dark scenes (eg 1/10 F4.5 ISO 6400 with the 11-22) and using flash
> ...



What makes this a smarter choice than the eos 80D, which is hardly any bigger once a lens is attached, and has a whole galaxy more of lenses to choose from. And battery life, and a bright OVF... 

Who is the target customer?


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 27, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



YuengLinger said:


> Act444 said:
> 
> 
> > Stefan Keller said:
> ...



Me, I'll buy one.

Compared to my 1DS MkIII and 35 f2 IS the M5 and 22 f2 are tiny, compare the M5 and 15-45 with a 5D Mk anything with a 24-70 f4 and the M package is still much smaller.

The IQ from APS-C is plenty good enough most of the time and software makes it simple to effectively make the sensor larger much of the time.

The killer 'feature' of the M line is size, and I think that is where Canon are coming from. Those hoping for FF and fast primes are not going to get what they want from Canon for many years, if ever.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 27, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



YuengLinger said:


> What makes this a smarter choice than the eos 80D, which is hardly any bigger once a lens is attached, and has a whole galaxy more of lenses to choose from. And battery life, and a bright OVF...
> 
> Who is the target customer?



Me. I will likely buy M5 once price reaches my target price [€ 800 / body]. Although I would have greatly preferred a more compact camera body and "rangefinder style" form factor without bulky hump on top. 

Size advantage is huge. I had xxD and xxD DSLRs and 7D in the past and have a 5D3 currently. Bag with 5D3 plus 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 II is about 4 times the volume and weight compared to my bag with EOS M plus EF-M 22/2, 18-55, 11-22, 55-200.


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 27, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



AvTvM said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > What makes this a smarter choice than the eos 80D, which is hardly any bigger once a lens is attached, and has a whole galaxy more of lenses to choose from. And battery life, and a bright OVF...
> ...



Why compare to a 5DIII, a large FF DSLR?

Compared to the 80D, weight is about 33% less, bulk of body only about 20% less, but that can, of course, change depending on the lens.

No doubt it's smaller than an 80D. Is that the main advantage? I can that as very important.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 27, 2016)

compact size is often a major advantage, yes. So many places, so many occasions for small gear only.


----------



## dak723 (Dec 27, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



YuengLinger said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > YuengLinger said:
> ...



Better check your math. The M5 is 42% lighter and approx. 45% smaller by area of body than the 80d. That is a huge difference. And when you use the native M lenses, the difference is much greater still. I just bought an M5 because the size of the body (small) and the size of the sensor (larger APS-C, compared to MFT).


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 27, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



dak723 said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Regarding weight, I stand corrected. However, I stand by the roughly 20% difference in dimensions. In my mind, "bulk" refers to how much room it will take to stash in a bag. For this, I compare the height, width, and depth, which would be *15%, 15%, and 23%,* respectively. Stashing in a bag means we are restricted to the smallest space available for any single dimension, not total surface area of the object. Does this make sense?

From Canon's European web specs:
80D: 139.0 x 105.2 x 78.5mm
M5: 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6

Of course the lenses make a huge difference, but with something such as a 24mm 2.8 pancake (a joy) or other small lens, I still see a marginal size advantage. But, as AvTvM was suggesting, the advantage grows with the number of lenses brought along...Except there aren't many lenses YET for the M5.

And didn't an encounter with the M5 end very badly for its creator, Dr. Daystrom? :

Seriously, I'm very glad Canon is making the effort!


----------



## dak723 (Dec 28, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



YuengLinger said:


> Regarding weight, I stand corrected. However, I stand by the roughly 20% difference in dimensions. In my mind, "bulk" refers to how much room it will take to stash in a bag. For this, I compare the height, width, and depth, which would be *15%, 15%, and 23%,* respectively. Stashing in a bag means we are restricted to the smallest space available for any single dimension, not total surface area of the object. Does this make sense?
> 
> From Canon's European web specs:
> 80D: 139.0 x 105.2 x 78.5mm
> M5: 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6



Well, I don't want to make a big deal out of this - and how much of a size advantage may depend on the bag size you have - but even if you place each camera flat in the bag, you gain space in two dimensions, not a single dimension as you are using for your calculations. So, flat in your bag, the M5 is still 35% smaller not even counting the reduction in height.


----------



## bholliman (Dec 28, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > troy19 said:
> ...



My M5 touch focuses all the time, even with continuous AF disabled. Is there another setting that I'm missing? It works without having to half press the shutter button. My current set-up:

AF Operation: One Shot (also works with Servo)
AF Method: 1-pt AF 
AF Frame Size: Normal (continuous AF disabled with small)
Continuous AF: Off
Focus Mode: AF (also works with AF+MF)
AF Assist Beam: On (also works off)

I've been using touch focusing almost all the time since I started using my M5 and its always worked regardless of other settings I've tried.


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 28, 2016)

This is really strange. I tried two m5s. They behave the same way. In order to use touch focus, continuous AF must be enabled. I am confused now. Can more m5 owners chime in? 



bholliman said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > Photorex said:
> ...


----------



## troy19 (Dec 28, 2016)

bholliman said:


> AF Operation: One Shot (also works with Servo)
> AF Method: 1-pt AF
> AF Frame Size: Normal (continuous AF disabled with small)
> Continuous AF: Off
> ...



Checked the above settings with my M5 and couldn't get Touch AF working with continous AF disabled.

Are we talking about different things?

1. I noticed a liitle change in EVF brightness when aiming at darker or brighter viewfinder targets. That's regular behaviour with EVF I think. At first I thought the cam focused but looking further it was just the little brightnes changing.

2. Saying Touch AF doesn't work with continous AF disabled I'm referring to Touch AF only. Whereas Touch Shutter is working with continous AF disabled. 

Would like to have other M5 users checked this. Thanks.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 28, 2016)

Hello troy,

I can confirm your statement. Touch Focus only possible when continous AF is enabled.

Maybe bholliman has switched the mode dial to video instead of Av, Tv or M?

Frank


----------



## bholliman (Dec 28, 2016)

troy19 said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > AF Operation: One Shot (also works with Servo)
> ...





Photorex said:


> Hello troy,
> 
> I can confirm your statement. Touch Focus only possible when continous AF is enabled.
> 
> ...



Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't reading/understanding the earlier posts completely. I thought the discussion was about the ability to use the LCD to move the focus point with continuous AF disabled. 

I can use the LCD screen to move the AF point in any focus mode, but it only "touch focuses" when Continuous AF is enabled. 

This is exactly how I would expect and want the camera to operate, so that might be part of why I thought the discussion was about the ability to move the focus point. Personally, I want to control AF lock by half pressing the shutter button (or AE lock button when using BBF) when in single shot mode. Touch focusing makes sense and seems to work well when using servo, continuous drive and focus.


----------



## AlanF (Dec 28, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



dak723 said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding weight, I stand corrected. However, I stand by the roughly 20% difference in dimensions. In my mind, "bulk" refers to how much room it will take to stash in a bag. For this, I compare the height, width, and depth, which would be *15%, 15%, and 23%,* respectively. Stashing in a bag means we are restricted to the smallest space available for any single dimension, not total surface area of the object. Does this make sense?
> ...



+1 
No, it doesn't make sense. The space occupied by an object is its volume, not length or area. For cubic bodies, the volume is the height x width x length, and as you first wrote, the M5 is 45% smaller by volume.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 28, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



AlanF said:


> +1
> No, it doesn't make sense. The space occupied by an object is its volume, not length or area. For cubic bodies, the volume is the height x width x length, and as you first wrote, the M5 is 45% smaller by volume.



Not only "total volume" but also form factor makes quite a difference ... the hump on M5 is bulky. Sony A6500 "rangefinder style" is much easier to pack, despite similar overall volume. 

"Best in class" is clearly Sony RX-1R II ... FF sensor plus (pop up) EVF in the smallest possible package so far.


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 28, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



AlanF said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > YuengLinger said:
> ...



Clearly not making real world comparisons. The shape and size with a lens attached must be taken into account. The grip of the 80D is larger, which is where the depth increase comes mostly, but even with the smallest lens, the M5 catches up, as the lens protrudes well beyond the depth dimensions of the 80D.

If you discount shape and adding the lens, in other words, just go by volume, you are not in the real world when comparing effective, practical differences in size.

No, I have not handled an M5. I did borrow a Fuji X-T2 during Thanksgiving, and, comparing it directly to my 80D, realized it didn't make sense if all I wanted was something smaller. Once a lens is on the X-T2, it doesn't feel much smaller, and, ergonomically absolutely didn't work for me. I do see the M5 has a deeper grip.

Nobody is arguing that the M5 is not smaller than the 80D. But the practical difference is not great, and anybody who thinks they are getting something the size of a p&s that can be slipped into a pocket is going to be disappointed.

I still say the advantages of the 80D, even with the size difference, overwhelmingly outweigh the one "pro" of the M5, which is slightly less bulk. 

If going for mirrorless, the Fuji X-T2 has better IQ and lenses, and, I believe, best-in-class EVF. (In fact the one that I borrowed really surprised me, even tempted me. Maybe the M5 is just as good--I don't know. Something that will be argued about) And from what I understand, it takes Canon ef lenses with and adapter also. But it isn't for me either, as I don't like EVF as currently implemented, want the longer battery life, better movie, menu, and touch screen functions.

My main point is, if already invested in ef-s and ef lenses, the small size and great features of the 80D outweigh the slight size advantage of an M5. Don't forget the articulated screen which is much more practical...

But, if somebody has no lenses, a slight weight and size advantage matter, why not encourage Canon to keep developing mirrorless? But they'd better get very, very good very, very fast. M5 is a good step.

And mirrorless does have a massive potential market as baby-boomers downsize for various reasons. Will younger enthusiasts see mirrorless as hip, or just another camera bigger than their smartphones?


----------



## bholliman (Dec 28, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



YuengLinger said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



For me there is a huge difference in size between the M5 and 80D. I currently own an M5 and have extensively used 70D's and 80D's. If you compare volumes in cubic cm, the M5 with 22/2 lens is 745cm3 compared with 1,306 cm3 for the 80D with 24mm STM pancake. The 80D is 75% larger by volume. Weight is 532 gr. vs. 855 gr, so the 80D is 61% heavier. Those are big differences in my book.

If you compare the M5+ 15-45 std zoom to the 80D + 18-55 STM the differences are even bigger. The 80D combo is 121% larger by volume and 68% heavier. OK, these lenses cover somewhat different focal ranges, but both are the most compact kit lens option for each body.

I can carry my M5 and 22mm or 15-45mm lens easily in a jacket pocket and not even notice it's there, its so small and light. I certainly can't do that with an 80D or other even a Rebel with equivalent lenses.



_Edit/Note: The volumes in the tables below are calculated using the overall height x width x depth which would be accurate if the cameras were perfect cuboids or three dimensional rectangles (terminology probably isn't correct, I'm not a mathematician...). 

The actual volume is less, but since the two camera with lenses attached have roughly the same shape, the size ratio is very close. _


----------



## sunnyVan (Dec 29, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*

Thank you for your quantitative analysis. I was a big fan of the 80d when i had it. It's definitely superior to m5 in many ways. However, to me M5 is more practical. Just like you said, M5 can fit in a jacket pocket. Or even if I hang it around my neck it weighs like nothing. I was very insistent on using L lenses with the 80D. When that's the case the weight saving from using 80D vs. 5dmk3 isn't very obvious. Nowadays I just M lenses exclusively and I'm very happy, especially with the new 18-150. I can really carry my gear everywhere I go without too much concern about weight. To me there's no reason to use EFS lenses. They are not superior to EFM in any way. They weigh more and are bulky. They feel plasticky. What makes sense to me is to either use L lenses for best quality and go for EFM lenses for portability. 





bholliman said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > AlanF said:
> ...


----------



## troy19 (Dec 29, 2016)

thread is getting difficult to read with all those full quotes, what do you think?


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 29, 2016)

troy19 said:


> thread is getting difficult to read with all those full quotes, what do you think?



I agree.

The first photo illustrates why I am going to be getting an M5, the second photo illustrates why Canon solutions are vastly more interesting to me than any third party.

For those that say I should compare the M5 to the 80D I say why? I am only interested in a smaller camera if the package is substantially smaller yet retains very good IQ. The M series does that in spades, after all I can't fit that sublime 22 f2 on an 80D can I?


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 29, 2016)

fully agree.

would have liked the M5 to be even more compact, not mini-DSLR styled with bulky hump on top.
"rangefinder-style" along the lines of Sony A6#00 series - ideally with pop-up EVF - would fit even better into jacket pocket or small lowepro dashpoint bag attached to legt shoulderstrap of my backpack on all sorts of outdoor and alpine excursions. 

if anyone who has M5 and Lowepro Dashpoint 30 or 20 bag - could you please check: 
does M5 with 18-55 attached fit? or even with 18-150? 
or will M5 plus 22 fit into dashpoint 20 photobag?


----------



## docsmith (Dec 29, 2016)

I am very curious about the rumored "M" release in Q1. I am thinking that Canon is setting up the "M" to have a similar naming structure as the "D" series.

1Dx, 5D, 6D, and 7D....

I was curious when the M10 was announced, and then when the M5 skipped over the "M4" name, but it would set up perfectly:
"M1"- Technically never used as the original was "EOS-M". But this could be a high end, potentially FF M camera
M5- DPAF, APS-C (for now), built in viewfinder
"M7"- DPAF, APS-C, no built in viewfinder, smaller form factor, but you can attach the EVF to the hot shoe
M10- entry APS-C. no DPAF, no built in viewfinder, etc

I still own the M1. But as I have thought about it, I would probably be most interested in my proposed M7 body where I had DPAF and could attach the EVF as needed.


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 29, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



bholliman said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > AlanF said:
> ...



Your "math" concludes that the M5 is only 16% the size of an 80D. Better check your calculations! You are saying you can fit 6 M5's in the volume of an 80D? At least I was in the ballpark. Oy vey.

Nicely presented, though. :


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 29, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > thread is getting difficult to read with all those full quotes, what do you think?
> ...



I can see that your logic is as strong as ever. Nice trick, comparing the M5 to a 1DX with an L bracket to make a point...Too bad you didn't include a pic of the 80D, which is only slightly larger than the M5.

But it does look like a cool little camera. I hope it provides years of enjoyment and great pics!


----------



## bholliman (Dec 29, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> if anyone who has M5 and Lowepro Dashpoint 30 or 20 bag - could you please check:
> does M5 with 18-55 attached fit? or even with 18-150?
> or will M5 plus 22 fit into dashpoint 20 photobag?



I had a Dashpoint 20 that I used for my M1 and 22/2. The M1 fit snugly, but the M5 + 22/2 did not fit due to the slightly larger dimensions and EVF bulge. I sold my Dashpoint 20 with my M1. I believe a Dashpoint 30 would work, but haven't tried one yet at our local camera store.


----------



## bholliman (Dec 29, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



YuengLinger said:


> Your "math" concludes that the M5 is only 16% the size of an 80D. Better check your calculations! You are saying you can fit 6 M5's in the volume of an 80D? At least I was in the ballpark. Oy vey.



Not sure where you came up with 16%. My point was that the M5 is considerably smaller and lighter than the 80D or any DSLR (other than the SL1 maybe). That's the only reason I own one. I have a 5DsR that I use when I'm doing serious landscape or nature photography. I added the M5 because I wanted something small and light enough I can take it with me anywhere without it being a burden or getting in the way of family activities. The M5 is small enough to fill that need and capable enough to enable me to take great pictures.


----------



## YuengLinger (Dec 29, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



bholliman said:


> YuengLinger said:
> 
> 
> > Your "math" concludes that the M5 is only 16% the size of an 80D. Better check your calculations! You are saying you can fit 6 M5's in the volume of an 80D? At least I was in the ballpark. Oy vey.
> ...



Your chart has errors. Depth = 23%, NOT 30% 61.6/78.5=77.2, or 23% smaller...

And you say that the volume difference in mm is 84%, meaning you think the M5 is only 16% the volume of the 80D. YOUR chart.

What am I missing?


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 29, 2016)

bholliman said:


> I had a Dashpoint 20 that I used for my M1 and 22/2. The M1 fit snugly, but the M5 + 22/2 did not fit due to the slightly larger dimensions and EVF bulge. I sold my Dashpoint 20 with my M1. I believe a Dashpoint 30 would work, but haven't tried one yet at our local camera store.



Thanks. Just what i thought. Bad news, since the Dashpoint very cleverly allow for both horizontal (=belt) and vertical attachment (backpack or larger camera bag shoulder strap). Also, all other bags were *quite a lot* bigger and bulky last time i checked. Maybe LowePro will launch a Dashpoint 40 for M5 + 18-55 or even 18-150 attached.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 29, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > I had a Dashpoint 20 that I used for my M1 and 22/2. The M1 fit snugly, but the M5 + 22/2 did not fit due to the slightly larger dimensions and EVF bulge. I sold my Dashpoint 20 with my M1. I believe a Dashpoint 30 would work, but haven't tried one yet at our local camera store.
> ...



FWIW, the Dashpoint 30 holds an M/M2 with the M11-22 or M18-55 with their lens hoods mounted in shooting position. I'm not sure if the bulge of the M5 would fit.


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> FWIW, the Dashpoint 30 holds an M/M2 with the M11-22 or M18-55 with their lens hoods mounted in shooting position. I'm not sure if the bulge of the M5 would fit.



That's exactly what I am trying to ind out. Currently I do use Dashpoint 20 for M + 22. And Dashpoint 30 for M + 18-55 or 11-22. 

Thos Dashpoints offer attachment to horizontal straps (Belt) and vertical straps (backpack) in a unique and clever way. If M5 does not fit into Dashpoint 30 because of the stupid hump, it will make for a very difficult bag search for me. I carry Dashpoint on left backpack shoulder strap for immediate access on my alpine endeavours - summer and winter.

It is one of the reasons why I would have preferred a camera like the Canon EOS M5 camera not in Mini-DSLR-format with bulky hump, but rather in range-finder format with left-side pop-up EVF [similar form factor to Sony A6#00 series ... ideally of course Sony RX-1R II form factor, only with EF-M mount in front].


----------



## AlanF (Dec 29, 2016)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



YuengLinger said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > YuengLinger said:
> ...



This is what you are missing. The volume of the 80D, according to the dimensions listed, is 1.84x greater than that of the M5, which is what is usually described as 84% larger. So, when someone says that x is 84% larger than y, it means that x is 1.84 times greater than y, or 1.84 ys will fit into the volume of 1 x.

Unfortunately, percentages are very frequently used in a misleading way to overstate differences.


----------



## dcm (Dec 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > bholliman said:
> ...



Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.


----------



## Al Chemist (Dec 29, 2016)

Why don't we all focus on our impressions of the M5 instead of this constant inane discussion of the size difference between the it and the 80D that most of us don't care about.


----------



## bholliman (Dec 29, 2016)

dcm said:


> Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.



Thanks! I think I'll order a Dashpoint 30. I'll use it for my M5 and 22mm as a carry around. As AvTvM pointed out, the Dashpoints ability to attach two ways to a belt or strap is a big advantage.

I picked up an inexpensive Lowepro Adventura SH100 II at Best Buy yesterday. It's larger than the Dashpoint 30 and holds my EF-M 55-200 and M5 with 22mm attached. I put the 55-200 in the bottom with a pad on top and load the M5 +22 on top. Its pretty tight, I have to put the back of the camera down or the EVF bulge prevents the lid from closing. I just took the M5, 22 and 55-200 on a short personal trip and the combo worked great. I missed having something wider a few times, but this combo is pretty versatile and small.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Dec 29, 2016)

dcm said:


> Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.



Thanks for the info!


----------



## dcm (Dec 30, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> dcm said:
> 
> 
> > Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.
> ...



The M5 with any EF-M lens, including 18-150 or 55-200, fits the ThinkTank Mirrorless Mover 10 with room to spare. You can wear it on a belt or use the shoulder strap or drop it in your pack. 

The M5/adapter with EF 40 or 50 STM also has plenty of room in the MM10. The EF 85 was just a hair too long anyone interested in what other adapted lenses might fit.


----------



## privatebydesign (Dec 30, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > troy19 said:
> ...



My logic is strong. 

It is not a trick, personally I have those two cameras ready to go to choose from, which do I take? That is the choice *I* have and *I* own the M because it and it's lenses are a fraction the size of a FF DSLR or an APS-C DSLR. Argue about an 80D all you like, I still can't fit the 22 f2 on one!


----------



## AvTvM (Dec 30, 2016)

dcm said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dcm said:
> ...



thanks for the info! size and shape of M5 and subsequently carrying options in the field are a good part of my considerations whether to buy this camera or not. 

i got bags similar in size and layout to thinktank MM10/MM20. they are good and useful on city trips and short, dedicated photo walks, but not for my mountaineering/backcountry use. i want to carry camera plus 1 zoom lens attached ready for immediate shooting at all times, not in pack. non-zipped dashpoints on backpack shoulderstrap work perfectly for me. 

clugdy M5 hump is a pita ...


----------



## dcm (Dec 30, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> dcm said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Agreed. I use the TT MM 10/20 around town or in my pack depending on what I'm carrying. I use Gura Gear inserts in my pack if I need more space. I prefer the Peak Design Capture Pro on my pack strap for quick access. I never really got into the dashpoints and use them mostly for storage.


----------



## Act444 (Dec 30, 2016)

I have the Dashpoint 30 bag and use it to carry my M10 (and M when I had it). Here's the thing: The M10 can fit in there with ANY EF-M lens attached, even the 55-200 (although that is a tight squeeze and requires repositioning of the strap, the bag still zips though). 

I had the same question as AvTvM, so I took my bag to the store and tried to see if either the M3 or M5 could fit. Although the M3 was OK (except with the 55-200, where it just barely fit, and that was with no strap), the M5 was really tight due to the EVF hump. Even with the compact 15-45, the M5 was a very tight squeeze. The 18-150 or 55-200 with the M5 would require a larger bag. Perhaps even with the M3 as well, although I was unable to verify - I know the strap adds extra bulk so not sure if it would fit with that attached?


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Jan 4, 2017)

troy19 said:


> Yes, magnification and focus peaking works both with EVF and tilt screen. These tools are a joy to use. I.e. you can touch focus at an outer focus point on the screen, half press the shutter and then turn the lens focus ring and the 5x magnifcation and focus peaking automatically starts. This is so great, I never could focus this reliable before. I'm very impressed (But that may be because it's my first mirrorless).
> 
> Well, focus rings on EF-M lenses are very small, but at least they are all at the same position (ref. to 11-22, 18-150 anf 28 macro), that means right at the front of the lens, so you can reach MF without problem, even when looking through EVF.



I want to add 2 notes here:
1. Magnification (5x or 10x) is chosen dependent on which magnification you set the last time when you were using it manually.
2. half pressing the shutter button and turning the lens focus ring does only switch to the magnification automatically with STM lenses.
I just tested this with the following lenses:

LensAuto MagnificationSamyang 8 f2.8 Fisheye M-Mount NoEF-M 11-22YesEF-M 22YesEF-M 18-55YesEF 40 f2.8 STMYesEF 50 f1.4 USMNoEF-S 60 Macro USMNoEF 85 f1.8 USMNoEF 100 L f2.8 Macro USMNoEF-S 55-250 IS STMYes

best regards
Frank


----------



## dlee13 (Jan 5, 2017)

I got the M5 ;D I managed to get the 15-45mm kit with the EF adapter for only $1367 AUD which was cheaper than the body alone at most places. This is not a grey camera either so I'm really happy.

So a little over 24 hours with the camera and I haven't got to shoot with it much, but I'm already madly in love with it!!!

EVF – The evf is definitely oversaturated which will take some time to get used to (still hoping it's able to be changed with a patch firmware update), although I don't mind it. In ways I still prefer an OVF but I know in certain situations the EVF will definitely have its benefits.

Autofocus – This was one of the main reasons I wanted this body and it doesn't disappoint. The tracking helps me when shooting wide open since I'm quite unsteady. The only thing I need to figure out is how to get BBF working on this body.


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Jan 5, 2017)

@dlee13:
You can configure BBF in the Custom function C.Fn II/2

Frank


----------



## dlee13 (Jan 5, 2017)

Photorex said:


> @dlee13:
> You can configure BBF in the Custom function C.Fn II/2
> 
> Frank



Thanks Frank! Was playing with it after posting this and noticed that. 

I find myself using the EVF more than the rear LCD, although the quality of the rear LCD is amazing!


----------



## dslrdummy (Jan 5, 2017)

dlee13 said:


> I got the M5 ;D I managed to get the 15-45mm kit with the EF adapter for only *$1367 AUD *which was cheaper than the body alone at most places. This is not a grey camera either so I'm really happy.
> 
> So a little over 24 hours with the camera and I haven't got to shoot with it much, but I'm already madly in love with it!!!
> 
> ...


Yeah I saw that Michaels in Melb had it at that price. Good deal well done. Hoping it will drop a bit later in the year. Thinking of it as a back up on my next trip. Interested to hear your further thoughts once you have played with it a bit.


----------



## bod (Jan 5, 2017)

Photorex said:


> I want to add 2 notes here:
> 1. Magnification (5x or 10x) is chosen dependent on which magnification you set the last time when you were using it manually.
> 2. half pressing the shutter button and turning the lens focus ring does only switch to the magnification automatically with STM lenses.
> I just tested this with the following lenses:
> ...



Hi Frank
This is very interesting. I studied the manual (see attached page 81) on the AF+MF function and it left me with the understanding that ONLY EFM lenses would work. However you had success with a STM EFS and a STM EF lens. Left to wonder how consistent this functionality will be with different lenses? I am interested in the M5 but will be a lot more interested if AF+MF works with more of my existing lenses.
Thanks


----------



## dlee13 (Jan 6, 2017)

dslrdummy said:


> dlee13 said:
> 
> 
> > I got the M5 ;D I managed to get the 15-45mm kit with the EF adapter for only *$1367 AUD *which was cheaper than the body alone at most places. This is not a grey camera either so I'm really happy.
> ...



Here are some more shots from me playing around with the M5



























So far my experience with the M5 is still all positive. Although the EF lenses perform great and almost like native, I like the EF-M lenses better as I can use them with continues focus which helps for shooting close up portraits wide open. When trying to use my EF lenses, the Canon 35mm f2 IS performs well on the M5, although it can be quite annoying if you leave continuous AF on. I find it just keeps focusing at long distances and is quite noisy were as the EF-M lenses are practically silent. 
The IQ is really great, the highest I've shot at is ISO 4000 and I was pleasantly surprised by the results. It wasn't as clean as my 6D, but for a crop sensor it was definitely impressive.


----------



## BasXcanon (Jan 6, 2017)

Even the Angry Photographer likes the touchscreen of the Eos M5!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gCvrN73LpE


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 6, 2017)

BasXcanon said:


> Even the Angry Photographer likes the touchscreen of the Eos M5!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gCvrN73LpE



With a viewing figure in the single digits it appears nobody cares what he has to say, current view count is at 6, why would anybody subject themselves to his 'opinions'?


----------



## Khufu (Jan 10, 2017)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



> This is what you are missing. The volume of the 80D, according to the dimensions listed, is 1.84x greater than that of the M5, which is what is usually described as 84% larger. So, when someone says that x is 84% larger than y, it means that x is 1.84 times greater than y, or 1.84 ys will fit into the volume of 1 x.
> 
> Unfortunately, percentages are very frequently used in a misleading way to overstate differences.



Trying not to be an arse here but this is kinda' one of my pet hates (along with Americans not realising "could care less" means the absolute opposite of what they're trying to communicate) ...and you do seem quite into technicalities yourself sooo:

84% greater = 1.84x "the size of"
1.84x "greater than" = 184% greater = 2.84x "the size of" 

2 x "greater" = 3 x "the size of"


Sorry 

I've seen similar things on educational websites, miscommunicating the size of astrological bodies and units... Bad internets! Bad physicists!


----------



## takesome1 (Jan 10, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> BasXcanon said:
> 
> 
> > Even the Angry Photographer likes the touchscreen of the Eos M5!
> ...



Apparantly out of curiosity, since you took a peek.
He is almost in the triple digits now.


----------



## AlanF (Jan 10, 2017)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



Khufu said:


> > This is what you are missing. The volume of the 80D, according to the dimensions listed, is 1.84x greater than that of the M5, which is what is usually described as 84% larger. So, when someone says that x is 84% larger than y, it means that x is 1.84 times greater than y, or 1.84 ys will fit into the volume of 1 x.
> >
> > Unfortunately, percentages are very frequently used in a misleading way to overstate differences.
> 
> ...



Technically, you are correct. But, overwhelmingly, as much as it grates, "times greater" is used to mean the same as "times as great". Scanlon http://www.jpscanlan.com/vignettes/timeshigherissues.html has analysed the frequency of the "incorrect" usage of "times greater" relative to the "correct" "times as great". Even in scientific journals, the "incorrect" usage predominates. For example, pointedly, in that esteemed journal The Lancet, the "incorrect" usage is 35 times more frequent. So, I am afraid, arsedom is thrust under you in the popular parlance stakes and the illiterates are in the ascendancy.


----------



## slclick (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm seeing one of two things:

A. Nothing but subpar reviews in the first few days/weeks, then a swelling of positive even glowing reviews start to bubble forth. 

B. There are an even number of good and bad reviews (like for anything) and YMMV. 

I tend to lean towards A. Experience and patience (like for anything) lends more to the truth than knee jerk reactions.


----------



## dlee13 (Jan 10, 2017)

slclick said:


> I'm seeing one of two things:
> 
> A. Nothing but subpar reviews in the first few days/weeks, then a swelling of positive even glowing reviews start to bubble forth.
> 
> ...



I would go with A for sure. On paper the M5 may not seem that great but once you use it, it's hard not to fall in love with it. I've had mine for a week and I struggle to find anything I don't like about the body itself.


----------



## Act444 (Jan 11, 2017)

Yes, but what about the complaint over shutter lag, specifically with flash in low light? Of course, if you don't do that kind of work (or shooting), then it's a non-factor, but for those that even _occasionally_ find themselves in such a situation, that's something bound to be noticed...

My M10 has that lag too. But now that I think about it, I've never actually used it in a real-world ultra-low-light situation where I had to use flash (probably due to my being aware of this limitation). I go with the bulkier, heavier option (DSLR). 

I would have hoped that the M5, being larger and more expensive than the M10, would be better, but I guess not.


----------



## slclick (Jan 11, 2017)

dlee13 said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I'm seeing one of two things:
> ...



Since I cannot find one in the area where I live, can you tell me if it's anything like the GX5 for large hands (meaning it's is not a good idea) or does the ergonomics lend for larger hands to still feel comfortable. fwiw, I use a 5D3 with an L plate. It feels right.


----------



## dlee13 (Jan 11, 2017)

Act444 said:


> Yes, but what about the complaint over shutter lag, specifically with flash in low light? Of course, if you don't do that kind of work (or shooting), then it's a non-factor, but for those that even _occasionally_ find themselves in such a situation, that's something bound to be noticed...
> 
> My M10 has that lag too. But now that I think about it, I've never actually used it in a real-world ultra-low-light situation where I had to use flash (probably due to my being aware of this limitation). I go with the bulkier, heavier option (DSLR).
> 
> I would have hoped that the M5, being larger and more expensive than the M10, would be better, but I guess not.



I haven't experienced any shutter lag yet, but I also haven't shot in low light with flash. Is this using the on camera flash or with off camera? Do you know if this issue happens with both MF and AF? Although I love the IQ and AF on the M5, if I do need to do any flash work in low light I would still be using my 6D.

The main lag that annoys me is reviewing images. It's always several seconds for the camera to load and preview the images compared to my 6D. This is the same on my M3 and annoying, but definitely not a dealbreaker. 

I did hate the saturation of the EVF at first but I've become used to it now.



slclick said:


> dlee13 said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



Yeah it's very similar in size to the GX5 and feels good in the hand. I have fairly large hands but don't feel like it's too small for me. It is certainly light though, I carry it everywhere now with the 22mm f2 attached.


----------



## dlee13 (Jan 11, 2017)

For anyone interested, I've posted a brief review of my first week with the M5. I got about 15 images I've taken and it's not a technical reviews, more from a casual shooters POV.

http://www.photosbydlee.com/first-week-canon-eos-m5/#more-2057


----------



## Khufu (Jan 12, 2017)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



AlanF said:


> Khufu said:
> 
> 
> > > This is what you are missing. The volume of the 80D, according to the dimensions listed, is 1.84x greater than that of the M5, which is what is usually described as 84% larger. So, when someone says that x is 84% larger than y, it means that x is 1.84 times greater than y, or 1.84 ys will fit into the volume of 1 x.
> ...



That was an interesting read (what I've read of it), but it's not the same argument, as became disappointingly apparent as I read on up to and beyond the table of statistics; these figures are based solely on usage of the terms and not correct or incorrect usage of each term! *sigh*

The author has chosen, based on the advice of various guidance articles, to refer to those instances using "as great as" et al as "correct" and branding "greater than" et al as "incorrect", regardless of whether the terms are used correctly or incorrectly in context... I can honestly say that I would personally use the latter terms at literal face value, correctly, which would then render it as a statistic in the "incorrect" camp. Yes, I would say travelling 300 miles is 2 x further than 100 miles, because it is, but because I didn't say "three times as far" it's "incorrect" terminology, which is what has been considered here, NOT incorrect usage 

THERE IS HOPE!! 

It's a shame though, this article started so well, then produced really stupid, confusing data set using specific terminology (ie. "incorrect") itself which clearly shows it's an agenda-driven piece where the irony is so sticky and disgusting and, eugh...

I'm reeeally interested in the data that this article almost suggested it was going to present though


----------



## Ed V (Jan 13, 2017)

Just returned my EOS M5 w/ the 15-45 kit lens for exchange. The camera seemed fine but the lens was the softest lens I have ever encountered. I know it is a kit lens and I don't expect it to be as sharp as my L glass but this glass was way too soft for me. Hopefully the new kit will be better and the 22 2.0 whenever it arrives will be even sharper.

Ironically I purchased two M5 kits with one for my wife and one for me. I let her pick her camera first. She got the good one and me... well I lost. 

Anyway it is on it's way back to B&H. First thing I ever returned to them.

Ed


----------



## bholliman (Feb 6, 2017)

After 2 months of regular use, I'm still very impressed with this little camera. Over the weekend, I tried it for birds with my 300 f/2.8 II lens, both in flight and perched birds from a blind. I didn't have a much success with BIF (I didn't really expect to), but it did great for perched birds. 

Male Downy Woodpecker 



2017_02_05_124141-1501 by Bryan Holliman
on Flickr


----------



## dslrdummy (Feb 6, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5 *



bholliman said:


> After 2 months of regular use, I'm still very impressed with this little camera. Over the weekend, I tried it for birds with my 300 f/2.8 II lens, both in flight and perched birds from a blind. I didn't have a much success with BIF (I didn't really expect to), but it did great for perched birds.
> 
> Male Downy Woodpecker
> 
> ...


Great to hear. I have the 300 and was thinking of the M5 as a relatively inexpensive and light weight back up on my next trip (Zambia and Madagascar). The 24MP with crop is attractive given my main body is the 1DXii.


----------



## digigal (Feb 20, 2017)

"Great to hear. I have the 300 and was thinking of the M5 as a relatively inexpensive and light weight back up on my next trip (Zambia and Madagascar). The 24MP with crop is attractive given my main body is the 1DXii."

I've only got the M3, not the M5, but I'd sure hate to rely on that focus system to capture the dancing Sifakas--no problem with the 1DXII, of course.

Catherine


----------



## slclick (Feb 24, 2017)

For me the decision to not buy came down to one feature, the screen. I swear if it had a true flippy, I'd snatch it up. Esp with a great deal from our friend Gordon. So, I wait.


----------



## bainsybike (Feb 24, 2017)

*Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)*



Khufu said:


> > This is what you are missing. The volume of the 80D, according to the dimensions listed, is 1.84x greater than that of the M5, which is what is usually described as 84% larger. So, when someone says that x is 84% larger than y, it means that x is 1.84 times greater than y, or 1.84 ys will fit into the volume of 1 x.
> >
> > Unfortunately, percentages are very frequently used in a misleading way to overstate differences.
> 
> ...



In the same spirit as your contribution, Khufu, I think you mean "astronomical". "Astrological" is to do with the interpretation of the supposed influence of heavenly bodies on human affairs.


----------



## Crosswind (Feb 25, 2017)

*M5 info screen to avoid heating up the sensor?*

Might be a dumb question... but look at the picture below... is the sensor still recording light in the background, while being in that particular INFO-display, or does the sensor stop collecting information (and therefore stop heating up) as long as I am inside this INFO screen?? 

I'm not sure, because y'know mirrorless cameras are always in LiveView, but when shooting some photos of the night sky, I want to *a.) save some energy* when possible by shutting down the image sensor (while still being able to see the display and all the settings about f-stop, exp. time and ISO) and *b.) stop the sensor from constantly heating up*, generating more noise.


----------



## AvTvM (Feb 25, 2017)

*Re: M5 info screen to avoid heating up the sensor?*



Crosswind said:


> Might be a dumb question... but look at the picture below... is the sensor still recording light in the background, while being in that particular INFO-display, or does the sensor stop collecting information (and therefore stop heating up) as long as I am inside this INFO screen??



i don't know for sure, but would guess the sensor is ON whenever the camera is ON.


----------



## Crosswind (Feb 25, 2017)

*Re: M5 info screen to avoid heating up the sensor?*



AvTvM said:


> i don't know for sure, but would guess the sensor is ON whenever the camera is ON.



It would be so easy to fix this with a firmware upgrade, if you are right. It is completely unnecessary to have the sensor working and always heating up, while being in the menu or in that INFO screen. 

That's also true for the image stabilizer of some lenses... they won't stop working... even when I am in the menu or reviewing some images ??? If you do not have a manual IS OFF/ON switch (like with the 24IS), you'd have to go into the menu everytime you don't need it to shut it down.


----------



## jolyonralph (Feb 27, 2017)

Just got my M5 and first impressions:

a) Ergonomics are slightly better than M3 (ok, significantly better) with a real on/off switch, but the menu button is still dangerously easy to trigger accidentally (although perhaps it's not quite as sensitive as on the M3)

b) start up time seems slow. In fact, just testing it side by side with the M3, the M5 is slightly *slower* than the M3 in startup, and the M5 is about twice as slow as the Sony A6000 in startup time. With mirrorless cameras when you have to keep the camera off most of the time to conserve battery slow startup = missed shots.

c) focus seems to be pretty good, and I've only misadjusted the focus point a few times with my nose hitting the touch screen so far  But in general touch/drag focus is a very good thing.

d) I actually got the Canon App for the iPhone and the M5 to successfully pair on my iPhone 6S Plus, a feat that I never managed to get working right with the M3 (nor, for that matter did I ever get the Sony software to pair properly with my A7RII) This is a big win. 

e) Flash is identical to the weedy pop-up unit in the M3 except oriented in a more traditional way. I actually liked the off-center flash on the M3 in those rare times I had to use it. 

Hopefully a future firmware update can address b)


----------



## jolyonralph (Feb 27, 2017)

Also, to add to the ergonomic woes of the M5, the record video button is in a horrible place. It's impossible to hodl the camera single-handed and turn video recording on. 

With the Sonly A6000, it's actually possible to hand-hold it and still access ALL of the buttons - partly because it's much lighter than the M5, and partly because it's just that little bit wider, giving a better hand grip which leads to much better control in a single hand.

I think that Canon have sacrificed too much in ergonomics to try to reduce the width of the camera. 

I do hope someone at Canon actually reads these threads.


----------



## dak723 (Feb 27, 2017)

jolyonralph said:


> Also, to add to the ergonomic woes of the M5, the record video button is in a horrible place. It's impossible to hodl the camera single-handed and turn video recording on.



If I'm not mistaken, there are about 7 different buttons you can customize to choose to record video. The ability to customize these buttons will hopefully improve the ergonomics for you.


----------



## Khufu (Mar 1, 2017)

jolyonralph said:


> Just got my M5 and first impressions:
> 
> a) Ergonomics are slightly better than M3 (ok, significantly better) with a real on/off switch, but the menu button is still dangerously easy to trigger accidentally (although perhaps it's not quite as sensitive as on the M3)
> 
> ...



This has only just occurred to me:
Has the M3 to M5 transition lost you the bounce flash?

Removal of bounce flash AND 3x video crop seems like a horrific downgrade to me :O !!!

I'm still on the M2, which is the tiniest M (win!) but I may grab an M3 before long for the better sensor, video crop with EVF aaand bounce flash; is horrific that the M5 does away with aaall the useful features for me :/


----------



## 1kind (Mar 10, 2017)

dak723 said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > Also, to add to the ergonomic woes of the M5, the record video button is in a horrible place. It's impossible to hodl the camera single-handed and turn video recording on.
> ...


I changed the record button to the top M-FN button. This way, it is easier to reach


----------

