# Canon USA lays off 60 employees from the camera division



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 19, 2019)

> We were told last week that Canon USA laid off 60 employees from the camera division shortly after WPPI this month. We were unable to confirm the information at that time, but it appears other sources have reached out to other media outlets to confirm the layoffs.
> According to Newsday, a Canon spokeswoman said that the company “is constantly reviewing business needs and organizational structures to help ensure that we are best positioned for future growth and development. At this time, we are confident that with our new organizational structure, we are well positioned for future growth and success.”
> 
> Canon USA had 1569 employees in Melville, New York according to state records. Canon USA is required to disclose local employment yearly to the state of New York and Suffolk County, as Canon received aid in building their $500mil USA headquarters.
> Canon moved from Lake Success, New York to Melville, New...



Continue reading...


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## ethanz (Mar 19, 2019)

Canon is *******! 

I wonder if this corresponds to the closure of the CPS service facility in NJ?


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## -pekr- (Mar 19, 2019)

They should better sack the idiots responsible for the 6DII.


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## bsbeamer (Mar 19, 2019)

The Jamesburg, NJ repair facility closing just sucks. Too bad the "Canon Solutions America" locations do not offer any services. There's an entire network of them with at least four still throughout NJ in Paramus, Burlington, Cranford, and Mount Laurel (very close to NFL Films).


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## Don Haines (Mar 19, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> They should better sack the idiots responsible for the 6DII.


Why? Because it outsells all the other Canon FF cameras?


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 19, 2019)

“is constantly reviewing business needs and organizational structures to help ensure that we are best positioned for future growth and development. At this time, we are confident that with our new organizational structure, we are well positioned for future growth and success.” 

I like how they say it. The bigger the company is, the more words they need to say "we had too many people".


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 19, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Why? Because it outsells all the other Canon FF cameras?


+1

It still surprises me how some people continue to believe that their own personal opinions trump reality.


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## slclick (Mar 19, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> They should better sack the idiots responsible for the 6DII.


No words...well, I guess that was two. (Eight?) Dang it, now it's fourteen.


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## tron (Mar 20, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> +1
> 
> It still surprises me how some people continue to believe that their own personal opinions trump reality.


Maybe you wanted to add: 

"(No pun intended)"


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 20, 2019)

tron said:


> Maybe you wanted to add:
> 
> "(No pun intended)"


I didn’t intend to, thanks. But I’d be remiss to not point out that I dictated that reply to my iPhone, and Siri chose to capitalize ‘trump’. Probably due to context.


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## crazyrunner33 (Mar 20, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> “is constantly reviewing business needs and organizational structures to help ensure that we are best positioned for future growth and development. At this time, we are confident that with our new organizational structure, we are well positioned for future growth and success.”
> 
> I like how they say it. The bigger the company is, the more words they need to say "we had too many people".



Pretty par for the course. The way you summarized it is the executives told the communications team and said "make this as appealing as possible to our shareholders, work with legal to make it sound as pleasant as possible without it sounding misleading.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 20, 2019)

The CPIA data shows yet another big drop in camera sales this year, much lower than last year which was much lower than 2017. 

Its really unfortunate, but the number of people needed is linked to sales, and big drops in sales every year means fewer dollars to pay workers. Those point and shoot cameras are almost extinct, but were sold by the millions and it took a lot of people to support sales. The same for service, lower sales means less service is needed. 

I think that those who are losing their jobs are pretty good employees and I hope they find good jobs elsewhere. The first ones out are often the lucky ones and find jobs fairly quickly. If sales keep on dropping, a second wave will lose their jobs and so on.

I've been thru the process of having to decide which employees will go. (I have also been laid off) The management meetings get pretty tense, managers feel that their employees are part of the family and fight to keep them. I retired 4 months before a big cutback, so I was spared the pain of saying goodbye to several good employees who worked in my group.


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## dolina (Mar 20, 2019)

And people insist DSLR development will continue for the next decade


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 20, 2019)

dolina said:


> And people insist DSLR development will continue for the next decade


I believe that sales will determine it. If DSLR's are selling well, then development will continue, but if Mirrorless sales take over as the main sellers, then, at some point, we will see a lot less new models of DSLR's. Vote with your pocketbook. Thats what is counted.

Canon is also giving a big push to mirrorless and the relative low price for the RP shows that they want mirrorless to be the product of tomorrow, so they are certainly trying to get photographers to switch over. But, they are not going to refuse your money until it becomes uneconomical to make a product due to low sales.


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## TheSpoiler72 (Mar 20, 2019)

So is the EOS R Canon's last ditch effort to save their future?


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## djack41 (Mar 20, 2019)

Given the dismal forecast for camera sales, seems all camera companies are in survival mode. Canon is being very conservative with spending on innovation which may be a sound strategy. Trimming costs, including layoffs, will be expected in a shrinking market.


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## ethanz (Mar 20, 2019)

TheSpoiler72 said:


> So is the EOS R Canon's last ditch effort to save their future?



I don't think Canon is *******. They are a very diversified company with healthy financials. You don't have to worry about their future survival. Markets change of course, so the products they offer will be reflected in those changes.


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## Adelino (Mar 20, 2019)

TheSpoiler72 said:


> So is the EOS R Canon's last ditch effort to save their future?


Hardly.


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## Aaron D (Mar 20, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its really unfortunate...


Yep. Best wishes for those booted, but I bet they do OK. There have been far worse times to be on the streets.

Canon is a business and they gotta adjust to changing times. We all do.


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## kaptainkatsu (Mar 20, 2019)

bsbeamer said:


> The Jamesburg, NJ repair facility closing just sucks. Too bad the "Canon Solutions America" locations do not offer any services. There's an entire network of them with at least four still throughout NJ in Paramus, Burlington, Cranford, and Mount Laurel (very close to NFL Films).


Woah when did that close? I sent my camera there like 2 months ago. Luckily the VA location is the same shipping time as the NJ one for me.


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## unfocused (Mar 20, 2019)

dolina said:


> And people insist DSLR development will continue for the next decade



And some people don't know the difference between Canon USA and Canon.


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## unfocused (Mar 20, 2019)

If Craig's numbers are correct, this is something under 4% of their workforce. Not insignificant, but not a major layoff either. I wonder how many people were employed at the New Jersey repair facility alone. Another thought, given the collapse of brick and mortar retail across the nation, I wonder how large of a sales force they need given that just four accounts – Amazon, B&H, Adorama and Best Buy – probably represent the bulk of their sales nationwide.


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## Baron_Karza (Mar 20, 2019)

the company “is constantly reviewing business needs and organizational structures to help ensure that we are best positioned for future growth and development. At this time, we are confident that *after hiring SONY employees, we will be* well positioned for future growth and success.”


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 20, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> I didn’t intend to, thanks. But I’d be remiss to not point out that I dictated that reply to my iPhone, and Siri chose to capitalize ‘trump’. Probably due to context.


Maybe you coined a new saying with Siri's assistance


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 20, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The CPIA data shows yet another big drop in camera sales this year, much lower than last year which was much lower than 2017.


Plus there's more and more competition in the premium but limited FF market. It's definitely getting tighter for the classic camera industry - after very prospering years. Maybe there is another effect I am observing in my personal environment: people don't buy a top camera every two years anymore because digital technology is very capable since a while now. But that's a guess, I haven't seen any statistics confirming such an effect... 

I also think that geek postings in photography forums are misleading. The number of people really buying the latest tech isn't that big. In fact, not everyone needs 4K video to document his pimples and nostril hairs in high fidelity sharpness


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 20, 2019)

Well Canon Japan just shut down it's once largest R&D group outside of Japan, in Australia. CiSRA employed 350 people only 7 years ago when I was there and had grown non-stop since 1990. In February Canon sacked 40 of the last 80 staff and categorically denied it would close them down, and 4 weeks later the scum did just that. It was all downhill post GFC for CiSRA, with Japan treating us with contempt, cancelling every project we worked on and giving us less and less interesting stuff to work on. I left in 2014 along with many others, and I said it wouldn't last 5 years and now it is gone. The largest non-University R&D organisation in Australia. They had already shut down one of the two USA R&D groups in 2013 or so. Now slashing the remaining USA centre. Their days are numbered too.


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## degos (Mar 20, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> and big drops in sales every year means fewer dollars to pay workers



You have seen the price of Canon's cameras, right? And lenses? They creep up constantly, even 25-year-old designs.

The company is projecting a NET PROFIT of 300 billion Yen for 2019. That's money that was left over after salaries, R&D, production costs, capital expenditure, marketing, tax, banquets for executives, first-class air travel, loaners to Explorers of Light.... it's money they didn't find a way to spend. All the R&D for the RF lenses? Already accounted for, and still there is money sloshing about unused. Compared to that the cost of 60 employees is miniscule.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 20, 2019)

Baron_Karza said:


> At this time, we are confident that *after hiring SONY employees, we will be* well positioned for future growth and success.”


You seem to have that back asswards. 

It’s Sony, the company in a distant third place for ILC market share, that would stand to benefit from the experience of those working for the company that has dominated the market for a decade and a half.


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## deorum (Mar 20, 2019)

Well, when CANON was hiring people, or when in the future hires some people usually this doesn't make it to the news.


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## jvillain (Mar 20, 2019)

djack41 said:


> Given the dismal forecast for camera sales, seems all camera companies are in survival mode. Canon is being very conservative with spending on innovation which may be a sound strategy. Trimming costs, including layoffs, will be expected in a shrinking market.




Well it is VERY interesting to see how Fufifilm looks at the ICL market compared to Canon. Fujifilm sees the market growing due to Asia stepping up and buying Cameras. That is 3 billion people eligible to be customers. As well Fujifilm can't build their cameras fast enough. Where as every thing is doom and gloom at Canon. 



> *Dave Etchells/Imaging Resource:* So one thing we're asking everybody is Mitarai-san from Canon is on record recently...
> 
> <crosstalk, laughter>
> 
> ...



https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/03/15/fujifilm-qa-cpplus-2019-af-tidbits-lenses-100-mp

Of course Fujifilm is innovating as fast as they can where as Canon is milking the profits from the camera division and funneling into the military projects and finding new ways to criple their cameras. 40 years ago the people running Canon were very savy. the people running it today I am not so sure about, they have a whiff of Ford or Chevy. If the new super duper mirrorless from Canon comes in spec wise some where between the A7R3 and the A9 at twice the price then stick a fork in CANON. My honest beilief these days is if Canon doesn't want to fire who ever is in charge of Camera bodies then they should unleash the lens division to to make lenses for other companies like the third party companies do.


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 20, 2019)

Cameras are also more reliable than in the past and the R system without a mirror box will add to reliability. Canon in the UK at least have service partners as well as their own single service centre (these cover other brands as well).


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 20, 2019)

Canon are still innovating and they showed 5 of the new RF lens mock-ups at The Photography Show (the ones announced at CP+). Sony in an article in UK photography press mocked the use of adaptors (having been happy to have Canon glass originally on A 7 series camera) but they still dont have the range that Canon have in EF and you can bet Canon is moving fast with RF lenses. I for one dont like the form factor or Sony cameras much preferring Canon and the new RF lenses have a great form factor. Dont write Canon off anytime soon.


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## unfocused (Mar 20, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> ...people don't buy a top camera every two years anymore because digital technology is very capable since a while now...



I think that is definitely true. It's really just a return to normal. Back in the film days, how often did people replace their SLRs? I had a Canon F1 that I used for almost 40 years.


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## [email protected] (Mar 20, 2019)

I think the news here is that there is an active trend for Canon to focus its resources on its most profitable and growing divisions, like medical imaging. When you see 60 cuts in mostly the consumer photography area, what you're not seeing is the probable shifting of even more workers from consumer to business-to-business lines within the company. For our photo geek purposes, this news is probably worse than it appears.


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## stevelee (Mar 20, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I think that is definitely true. It's really just a return to normal. Back in the film days, how often did people replace their SLRs? I had a Canon F1 that I used for almost 40 years.


I used my SLR for 30 years and never felt like I needed to upgrade anything. If I were still shooting film, I'd still be using it.


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## rbr (Mar 20, 2019)

The market has changed on the photographer's end as well in the past 10 years. The days of selling stock have plummeted. There just aren't many paying magazine and book publishers out there to keep a steady income coming in to spend on the latest and greatest camera gear. The benefits of constantly upgrading cameras just isn't realistic to me any more. I still love photography, but what was once a second income has mostly turned into a hobby. Great 13x19 prints can be made out of any digital camera. It's pretty difficult to tell the difference of a print taken with a 1D2 vs. a 5D4 hanging side by side. Nobody cares and my photos aren't going to be hanging in the Louvre in 300 years anyway.


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## Don Haines (Mar 21, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I think that is definitely true. It's really just a return to normal. Back in the film days, how often did people replace their SLRs? I had a Canon F1 that I used for almost 40 years.


I had an OM-1 that survived close to 30 years of abuse, everything from mountains to the arctic. I can't see a digital camera doing the same.....

Kodachrome64 slide.... guessing at exposure because for some strange reason the battery for the light meter seems to quickly die when it is -60C.


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## bsbeamer (Mar 21, 2019)

kaptainkatsu said:


> Woah when did that close? I sent my camera there like 2 months ago. Luckily the VA location is the same shipping time as the NJ one for me.



It's not been covered too much, but was reported here:




__





Canon closing Jamesburg, NJ Service Center


I received this message from CPS this week, so I decided to share, in case anyone was planning to send/travel to the Jamesburg, NJ Service Center for a repair/cleaning: I live within driving distance of Jamesburg, so I was able to drop off/pick up here or even get my sensors cleaned while I...




www.canonrumors.com


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 23, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I think that is definitely true. It's really just a return to normal. Back in the film days, how often did people replace their SLRs? I had a Canon F1 that I used for almost 40 years.


The F1 must have been a great camera. I still have my first camera, a Kodak Retina IIIc from mid fifties. When I got it from an uncle, it was already very vintage and cool amongst us young people. Some years ago I got it refurbished, and sometimes I love to load it with a roll of film. It is a piece of mechanical artwork and has a very good Schneider 2/50mm lens.


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## TAF (Mar 24, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I think that is definitely true. It's really just a return to normal. Back in the film days, how often did people replace their SLRs? I had a Canon F1 that I used for almost 40 years.



Agreed on a return to normal.

I *still* have my F-1 and use it from time to time. 40 years old this summer, and working just fine, although these days, when I shoot film I prefer MF, using my Rollei TLR, which is 60 years old...and I just started experimenting with stereo, with a Heidoscop which is 90 years old. As long as film exists, the equipment will pretty much last forever. We might be hitting the same point with digital. Except, since Canon is RoHS compliant, I expect hardware failures is about 10 years due to dendritic growth.

I wonder when Canon will introduce the 3D, a dual sensor/dual RF mount stereo camera?


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## stevelee (Mar 24, 2019)

My FT-QL is in a box somewhere. I last used it about 17 years ago. I may still have the Brownie box camera my uncle gave me. The negatives were large enough (size 620 or 616, or something like that) that when I was a kid, I made contact prints from the negatives. The paper had a nicer look than any enlarging paper I ever used, as I recall. My first digital camera from 2002 is somewhere in the closet. I quit using it when I got my first Rebel.


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## bokehmon22 (Mar 26, 2019)

TheSpoiler72 said:


> So is the EOS R Canon's last ditch effort to save their future?


Probably not. They aren't winning in term of specs but the sales will be there especially for EOS RP. They will continue to bleed shares since we have so many camera manufacturers doing FF mirrorless (Panasonic, Nikon, Sony, Canon, and Sigma). All of them have a certain advantage over Canon and so do Canon. Canon aren't the only one capable of making great lenses anymore so it's getting really competitive. 

I think Canon grim look about the future and recent layoff mean 5D V/ESO R 5D equivalent may take longer to get here. The product cycle between each generation will also won't be as short as Sony.


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## sfeinsmith (Mar 27, 2019)

I am not surprised about this incident because Canon's management included CEO was very immature and did not know how to run the business and meet customers' satisfaction. They never listen to customers included professional photographers. They tend to rush to put junk Canon R system which Nikon succeed with their Z series. They abandoned the EF system as much as like they did in the past with the FD series system that was very successful products. I refused to buy their new EF telephoto lenses because I did not trust them. Also, they tend to discontinued replacement parts after the product was ceased from the market. I had Canon EOS 1DS Mark III as they told me no replacement parts available last year. I fed up and forced myself to purchase the non-working camera for parts from eBay.
Kudos to Nikon as DXOmark informed Canon R rated was 89 in the score as much lower than others. Since last month, I forced myself to sell the entire Canon EOS system with 15 lenses because I use Nikon equipment now.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 27, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> I am not surprised about this incident because Canon's management included CEO was very immature and did not know how to run the business and meet customers' satisfaction. They never listen to customers included professional photographers. They tend to rush to put junk Canon R system which Nikon succeed with their Z series. They abandoned the EF system as much as like they did in the past with the FD series system that was very successful products. I refused to buy their new EF telephoto lenses because I did not trust them. Also, they tend to discontinued replacement parts after the product was ceased from the market. I had Canon EOS 1DS Mark III as they told me no replacement parts available last year. I fed up and forced myself to purchase the non-working camera for parts from eBay.
> Kudos to Nikon as DXOmark informed Canon R rated was 89 in the score as much lower than others. Since last month, I forced myself to sell the entire Canon EOS system with 15 lenses because I use Nikon equipment now.


Misinformation overload. 

Since you’ve sold off all of your Canon gear, I expect we won’t be seeing any more of you here. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


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## ethanz (Mar 27, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> I am not surprised about this incident because Canon's management included CEO was very immature and did not know how to run the business and meet customers' satisfaction. They never listen to customers included professional photographers. They tend to rush to put junk Canon R system which Nikon succeed with their Z series. They abandoned the EF system as much as like they did in the past with the FD series system that was very successful products. I refused to buy their new EF telephoto lenses because I did not trust them. Also, they tend to discontinued replacement parts after the product was ceased from the market. I had Canon EOS 1DS Mark III as they told me no replacement parts available last year. I fed up and forced myself to purchase the non-working camera for parts from eBay.
> Kudos to Nikon as DXOmark informed Canon R rated was 89 in the score as much lower than others. Since last month, I forced myself to sell the entire Canon EOS system with 15 lenses because I use Nikon equipment now.



So bad I can't tell if its sarcasm or not.


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## Phil Indeblanc (Apr 3, 2019)

In response to the layoff...Maybe they finally saw the competition direction and realized they have been wasting their time in a vortex they created themselves, while the numbers and world direction is going with hybrid systems that can focus peak, and have new updated sensor tech, and adaptive to lens with ease and with options of SUPER hi-resolution 100mp....maybe using a foveon or the honeycomb sensor tech. No AA, no mirror, ultra hi-speed stills in the 240fps and video that puts the Phanton hi=speed camera out... and SonyA7R ish ability into a 5D like trimmer body that fits in a POCKET... while you wear a wireless goggle headset that doesn't even require holding the camera, and shoot with facial gestures. (Consider this a public posted patent in my name).

Release that, and please take a 10 year hiatus!


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## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2019)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> In response to the layoff...Maybe they finally saw the competition direction and realized they have been wasting their time in a vortex they created themselves, while the numbers and world direction is going with hybrid systems that can focus peak, and have new updated sensor tech, and adaptive to lens with ease and with options of SUPER hi-resolution 100mp....maybe using a foveon or the honeycomb sensor tech. No AA, no mirror, ultra hi-speed stills in the 240fps and video that puts the Phanton hi=speed camera out... and SonyA7R ish ability into a 5D like trimmer body that fits in a POCKET... while you wear a wireless goggle headset that doesn't even require holding the camera, and shoot with facial gestures. (Consider this a public posted patent in my name).
> 
> Release that, and please take a 10 year hiatus!



The folks let go were not product developers, nor were they research scientists.

They were sales reps and the like.

This has more to do with the death of brick and mortar stores that sale anything but the cheapest entry level cameras than anything to do with technological developments. When most of your product is being sold by a handful of online giants like B&H and amazon you don't need the same sales staff you did when your cameras were sold by thousands of independent camera shops and small, regional chains.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2019)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> In response to the layoff...Maybe they finally saw the competition direction and realized they have been wasting their time in a vortex they created themselves, while the numbers and world direction is going with hybrid systems that can focus peak, and have new updated sensor tech, and adaptive to lens with ease and with options of SUPER hi-resolution 100mp....maybe using a foveon or the honeycomb sensor tech. No AA, no mirror, ultra hi-speed stills in the 240fps and video that puts the Phanton hi=speed camera out... and SonyA7R ish ability into a 5D like trimmer body that fits in a POCKET... while you wear a wireless goggle headset that doesn't even require holding the camera, and shoot with facial gestures. (Consider this a public posted patent in my name).
> 
> Release that, and please take a 10 year hiatus!


 Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.


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## Keith_Reeder (Apr 3, 2019)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> In response to the layoff...Maybe they finally saw the competition direction and realized they have been wasting their time in a vortex they created themselves, while the numbers and world direction is going with hybrid systems that can focus peak, and have new updated sensor tech, and adaptive to lens with ease and with options of SUPER hi-resolution 100mp....maybe using a foveon or the honeycomb sensor tech. No AA, no mirror, ultra hi-speed stills in the 240fps and video that puts the Phanton hi=speed camera out... and SonyA7R ish ability into a 5D like trimmer body that fits in a POCKET... while you wear a wireless goggle headset that doesn't even require holding the camera, and shoot with facial gestures. (Consider this a public posted patent in my name).
> 
> Release that, and please take a 10 year hiatus!



Pointless gimmicks, one and all. I prefer cameras that just _work and deliver_, and Canon reigns supreme there.


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## Keith_Reeder (Apr 3, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> They never listen to customers included professional photographers.



Which is why they're the market leader year after year, eh?

See the disconnect between your inane opinion and _observable facts_?


> I refused to buy their new EF telephoto lenses because I did not trust them



A truly _astroundingly_ ridiculous comment.


> I use Nikon equipment now.



And you honestly think that Nikon doesn't have exactly the same issues with maintaining older cameras?

Try and get spare parts for a D3 and then get back to us...


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## shawn (Apr 4, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> I am not surprised about this incident because Canon's management included CEO was very immature and did not know how to run the business and meet customers' satisfaction. They never listen to customers included professional photographers. They tend to rush to put junk Canon R system which Nikon succeed with their Z series. They abandoned the EF system as much as like they did in the past with the FD series system that was very successful products. I refused to buy their new EF telephoto lenses because I did not trust them. Also, they tend to discontinued replacement parts after the product was ceased from the market. I had Canon EOS 1DS Mark III as they told me no replacement parts available last year. I fed up and forced myself to purchase the non-working camera for parts from eBay.
> Kudos to Nikon as DXOmark informed Canon R rated was 89 in the score as much lower than others. Since last month, I forced myself to sell the entire Canon EOS system with 15 lenses because I use Nikon equipment now.



So, what you're saying is that if you don't really speak English, not only are you probably misinformed on all manner of things, you probably communicate that misinformation like a dyslexic toddler with a head injury? Interesting.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 5, 2019)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> 240fps and video that puts the Phanton hi=speed camera out.



Yah man. 240 FPS totally challenges Phantom, which can bring to bear 25 ba-ba-ba-billion pixels per second.


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## ashmadux (Apr 7, 2019)

the NJ facility is CLOSED??????


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## Don Haines (Apr 7, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.


He’s just getting started!


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## dolina (Jan 10, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I believe that sales will determine it. If DSLR's are selling well, then development will continue, but if Mirrorless sales take over as the main sellers, then, at some point, we will see a lot less new models of DSLR's. Vote with your pocketbook. Thats what is counted.
> 
> Canon is also giving a big push to mirrorless and the relative low price for the RP shows that they want mirrorless to be the product of tomorrow, so they are certainly trying to get photographers to switch over. But, they are not going to refuse your money until it becomes uneconomical to make a product due to low sales.


*"Our focus is on RF”, says Canon – no new EF lenses unless "market demands it"*
Don't expect new EF lenses – Canon confirms plans to focus development on RF-mount optics for the Canon EOS R









"Our focus is on RF”, says Canon – no new EF lenses unless "market demands it"


Don't expect new EF lenses – Canon confirms plans to focus development on RF-mount optics for the Canon EOS R




www.digitalcameraworld.com





Called it last year and it appears to be their strategy going forward.

Canon will still continue manufacturing the current line of EF lenses but any further R&D for it is halted in favor of RF lenses as that is what new photographers want.


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## richperson (Jan 10, 2020)

neuroanatomist said:


> +1
> 
> It still surprises me how some people continue to believe that their own personal opinions trump reality.



I have never wanted a 6D, but cannot argue that it would be a great entry level full frame at the price.


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## cayenne (Jan 10, 2020)

Don Haines said:


> He’s just getting started!



I do not think it means what he thinks it means...


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## Michael Clark (Jan 12, 2020)

Keith_Reeder said:


> Which is why they're the market leader year after year, eh?
> 
> See the disconnect between your inane opinion and _observable facts_?
> 
> ...



Try and get spare parts for a D5! Nikon won't sell them to _*anyone*_ (other than a few external parts such as rubber covers and battery doors and such).


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## Optics Patent (Jan 12, 2020)

dolina said:


> And people insist DSLR development will continue for the next decade



I believe it will look (to many people) like DSLRs will continue to to coexist for years to come, until one day it will look to everyone that they are dead. That day is easily withing 5 years. Maybe 3.


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## uri.raz (Jan 12, 2020)

dolina said:


> And people insist DSLR development will continue for the next decade



SLRs were much simpler devices, sold in smaller numbers, and were developed for more than a decade.


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## SecureGSM (Jan 12, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> I believe it will look (to many people) like DSLRs will continue to to coexist for years to come, until one day it will look to everyone that they are dead. That day is easily withing 5 years. Maybe 3.


The day when a “latency free” and “blackout free” OVF became available is the day you are talking about. A had a bit of a play with A9 and the OVF lag is quite noticeable. 




__





There is still some Lag in the new Sony A9: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review


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## SecureGSM (Jan 12, 2020)

uri.raz said:


> SLRs were much simpler devices, sold in smaller numbers, and were developed for more than a decade.


And the real reason for SLRs still being in demand is: film as a media.
Film and digital will coexist for many years to come.
MILC vs DSLR is a completely different story though.
In my opinion , this increasingly becoming an OVF vs EVF challenge.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 12, 2020)

With the emergence of OVF based PDAF and metering sensors that are, in effect, second and third imaging sensors able to replicate the advantages of mirrorless while also allowing the advantages of an OVF, only two things remain to make the difference between DSLRS and MILCs meaningless:

1) Hybrid OVFs with transmissive EVF overlays.

2) Automatic AFMA that calibrates a lens/body combo at all focal lengths and aperture combinations that is saved in an internal database and called upon every time AF is used. We're getting close to the the processing speeds needed to accomplish such a system at far finer gradations than the Sigma and Tamron applications do.


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## dolina (Jan 12, 2020)

Canon has stated that R&D for new EF mount lenses have been halted.

I would not be surprised if the next 5D, 6D or APS-C body will be their last.

It is a good business move on their part to focus what little R&D money they have on a camera system new photographers prefer. And this is mirrorless.



Optics Patent said:


> I believe it will look (to many people) like DSLRs will continue to to coexist for years to come, until one day it will look to everyone that they are dead. That day is easily withing 5 years. Maybe 3.





uri.raz said:


> SLRs were much simpler devices, sold in smaller numbers, and were developed for more than a decade.


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## flip314 (Jan 12, 2020)

dolina said:


> Canon has stated that R&D for new EF mount lenses have been halted.
> 
> I would not be surprised if the next 5D, 6D or APS-C body will be their last.
> 
> It is a good business move on their part to focus what little R&D money they have on a camera system new photographers prefer. And this is mirrorless.



As long as there's a market for Rebel DSLRs, I think they'll keep churning out new ones since they can do so with existing tech.

My guess is that RP will replace the 6D series quickly, but again if they just updated the 6D mark II with a sensor from the R line and pulled in some improvements from 90D/M series I could see them making a mark III *IF* there was a market for it.

5D is probably the least likely, but will depend on how the 1Dx III is received


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## uri.raz (Jan 13, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> And the real reason for SLRs still being in demand is: film as a media.
> Film and digital will coexist for many years to come.
> MILC vs DSLR is a completely different story though.



Film SLRs were developed and sold for decades prior to the digital photography revolution, with far less unit sales than DSLRs / MILCs enjoy today.

We might get fewer new models and longer development cycles, but DSLRs & MILCs aren't going anywhere.


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## uri.raz (Jan 13, 2020)

dolina said:


> Canon has stated that R&D for new EF mount lenses have been halted.



Canon has stated that R&D for new EF lenses have been halted, unless there's market demand. In a capitalist market, this is true for every product. This is Canon saying "it seems there's no demand for new EF lenses, so no more new lenses for you, unless the market proves us wrong".



dolina said:


> I would not be surprised if the next 5D, 6D or APS-C body will be their last.



Neither would I.



dolina said:


> It is a good business move on their part to focus what little R&D money they have on a camera system new photographers prefer. And this is mirrorless.



Question is how long would it take Canon to make as many RF lenses as there are EF lenses. My bet is that by 2030 Canon would have made RF equivalents of the L line, and the cheaper primes (400mm f/5.6, 300mm f/4) & zooms will mostly disappear.


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## dolina (Jan 13, 2020)

I am talking about R&D and not production. Production will continue at a volume that the market can bare.

I find it amusing people hold on to hope that Canon will some day in the future restart R&D for EF lenses.

It ain't gonna happen.

Still camera market has been in decline for over a decade and whatever little money they have to invest is best spent on a growing market segment rather than a shrinking one.

I could imagine people having this sort of discussion when the EF mount was announced in the early 80s. A lot of people in denial...

"Autofocus is not reliable!" etc etc.

Resources will prioritize RF mount products.


uri.raz said:


> Canon has stated that R&D for new EF lenses have been halted, unless there's market demand. In a capitalist market, this is true for every product. This is Canon saying "it seems there's no demand for new EF lenses, so no more new lenses for you, unless the market proves us wrong".
> 
> 
> 
> ...





flip314 said:


> As long as there's a market for Rebel DSLRs, I think they'll keep churning out new ones since they can do so with existing tech.
> 
> My guess is that RP will replace the 6D series quickly, but again if they just updated the 6D mark II with a sensor from the R line and pulled in some improvements from 90D/M series I could see them making a mark III *IF* there was a market for it.
> 
> 5D is probably the least likely, but will depend on how the 1Dx III is received


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## uri.raz (Jan 13, 2020)

dolina said:


> I am talking about R&D and not production. Production will continue at a volume that the market can bare.



You're talking about EF lenses, I'm talking about MILCs, DSLRs, and lenses for both.



dolina said:


> Still camera market has been in decline for over a decade and whatever little money they have to invest is best spent on a growing market segment rather than a shrinking one.



Still cameras (read: DSLRs and MILCs) is, AFAIK, stronger today than it was before the digital revolution.


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## dolina (Jan 13, 2020)

uri.raz said:


> You're talking about EF lenses, I'm talking about MILCs, DSLRs, and lenses for both.
> 
> 
> 
> Still cameras (read: DSLRs and MILCs) is, AFAIK, stronger today than it was before the digital revolution.


Still camera market as a whole has shrink as a whole.






Consumer at the greatest degree

SLRs at a medium degree.

Mirrorless at the least degree.

If Canon wont service my gear by 2030s then I do not mind as it is time to buy new RF system.


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## Optics Patent (Jan 13, 2020)

uri.raz said:


> Still cameras (read: DSLRs and MILCs) is, AFAIK, stronger today than it was before the digital revolution.



Canon’s camera business is 15% of what it once was.


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## dolina (Jan 13, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> Canon’s camera business is 15% of what it once was.


How horrible but that's impact of Steve Jobs and his infernal smartphone.

Without him Canon's camera business peak would have been 15% of what it would be today.


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## Optics Patent (Jan 13, 2020)

It's not horrible, it's just how technology changes. I'm a telescope collector. Imagine how that market looks. 

It's amusing that the 11-24 I recently acquired on coming to Canon is the "ultimate real estate photography" lens, until you realize that every smart realtor now shoots with the iPhone 13mm lens and HDR for every listing.

My real take is this: How many of your neighbors, or your kids' friends parents, or your classmates as class reunions, have "cameras" other than smart phones that they actually use? My answer is approximately zero, and I expect that it's just professionals and hobbyists that will ever buy these things again.


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## uri.raz (Jan 13, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> Canon’s camera business is 15% of what it once was.



When is once? Sometime in the last 20 years, or back in the eighties?


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## Optics Patent (Jan 13, 2020)

uri.raz said:


> When is once? Sometime in the last 20 years, or back in the eighties?



Why does it matter when the steep decline started? 

Does anyone doubt that smart phones and their continually improving cameras are a recent and current factor?


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## uri.raz (Jan 13, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> My real take is this: How many of your neighbors, or your kids' friends parents, or your classmates as class reunions, have "cameras" other than smart phones that they actually use? My answer is approximately zero, and I expect that it's just professionals and hobbyists that will ever buy these things again.



When I was in 7th grade, maybe 2 or 3 kids had cameras on a class trip. Nowadays, every 7th grader carries a camera 24/7.


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## Optics Patent (Jan 13, 2020)

uri.raz said:


> When I was in 7th grade, maybe 2 or 3 kids had cameras on a class trip. Nowadays, every 7th grader carries a camera 24/7.



"Other than smart phones"


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## uri.raz (Jan 13, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> Why does it matter when the steep decline started?



Manufacturers made money on SLRs in the eighties, they'll keep on making money on whatever sales volume they have nowadays,



Optics Patent said:


> Does anyone doubt that smart phones and their continually improving cameras are a recent and current factor?



No.


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## Optics Patent (Jan 13, 2020)

uri.raz said:


> Manufacturers made money on SLRs in the eighties, they'll keep on making money on whatever sales volume they have nowadays,



How nice. Do you have a point?


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## uri.raz (Jan 13, 2020)

Optics Patent said:


> How nice. Do you have a point?



Yes. Manufacturers made money, and invested in R&D, on SLRs in the eighties, they'll keep on making money, and continue R&D, on whatever sales volume they have nowadays.

What was yours? That smartphones are taking away sales from other cameras?


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## cayenne (Jan 13, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> And the real reason for SLRs still being in demand is: film as a media.
> Film and digital will coexist for many years to come.
> MILC vs DSLR is a completely different story though.
> In my opinion , this increasingly becoming an OVF vs EVF challenge.




Yep, and FILM is experiencing a bit of resurgence.

I myself am having fun shooting on medium format (120) cameras, I have a Yeshiva TLR and a Hasselblad V System camera and they are a blast!!

I just need to now learn to develop my own B&W film to really make it fun.

The square format, shooting in that is a nice fun new challenge, the composition for that format is quite different than the rectangular one we are all used to these days.

C


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## cayenne (Jan 13, 2020)

uri.raz said:


> When I was in 7th grade, maybe 2 or 3 kids had cameras on a class trip. Nowadays, every 7th grader carries a camera 24/7.




Boy...I"m GLAD that wasn't the case when "I" grew up....waaay too much evidence to be held against me as an adult.

I actually feel a bit sorry for the youth of today, they are monitored 24/7 by parents, schools, etc....and cameras are everywhere.

I guess if I were raised today, my parents would have been put in jail for neglect as that I was able to run "wild" all over my neighborhood unsupervised on my bike and skateboard all day....only needing to come home at night for dinner during summers....

and my antics back then likely would have had me on several watch lists today....but it was called "just being a boy" back then.

*sigh*

c


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## uri.raz (Jan 14, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Boy...I"m GLAD that wasn't the case when "I" grew up....waaay too much evidence to be held against me as an adult.
> 
> I actually feel a bit sorry for the youth of today, they are monitored 24/7 by parents, schools, etc....and cameras are everywhere.



There are plenty of adults hurt by the 2014 iCloud leak. Plenty of young adults who haven't realized they don't have as much privacy as their parents had at the same age.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 27, 2020)

dolina said:


> I am talking about R&D and not production. Production will continue at a volume that the market can bare.
> 
> I find it amusing people hold on to hope that Canon will some day in the future restart R&D for EF lenses.
> 
> ...



It was in 1987. That's not exactly "early '80s"

The difference between then and now was that FD could not be adapted to EF without what is essentially a teleconverter and loss of IQ and max aperture. Not to mention that FD had no AF and EF does.

EF, on the other hand, can be seamlessly used on RF cameras with no loss in IQ or max aperture or AF functionality. Zero.


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